# Official Magic The Gathering TCG thread



## ~Greed~ (Jan 16, 2011)

This thread is for the discussion of anything Magic: The Gathering TCG related.


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## SageMaster (Jan 16, 2011)

First post.

MTG is awesome.


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## Gig (Jan 16, 2011)

I agree MTG is awesome. unfortunate my only experience is from playing duels of the planeswalkers on xbox 360, the game as a whole seems very good, there are some horrendously broken cards though like Tinker and wheel of fortune.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 16, 2011)

Man, was just playing some Magic with my friend last night. 

Zombies


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## Pipe (Jan 16, 2011)

Blue FTW


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 16, 2011)

Love me some Magic. Green/White >>>> all


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## Xelloss (Jan 17, 2011)

Stompy, White winnie, control (blue/white).


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## Anasazi (Jan 17, 2011)

Golgari the best.

Also, .


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## LifeMaker (Jan 17, 2011)

I haven't played in years... all my playing partners have moved away and got jobs and wives, the swines...

I think i might check out my card folder later, and look back at all my great rares


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## Xelloss (Jan 17, 2011)

Welcome to the boat  ahh a land destroyer deck, to bad a 10 man stompy is the bane of those decks.


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 17, 2011)

LifeMaker said:


> I haven't played in years... all my playing partners have moved away and got jobs and wives, the swines...



Tsk tsk, betrayers all of them


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## LifeMaker (Jan 18, 2011)

Having looked at my cad decks no wonder i never used to win many matches 

Apart from a Cadeverous Bloom using early edition dual lands, all my decks are kinda... _ odd. _

Got a 14 card millstone/soldevi digger deck...

A Black deck with 4 Demonic Hordes, 4 pit fields and tons of minions of yawgmoth/leshrac

a ball lightning/emberwilde/fervor/enduring renewal red/white combo deck

and a green/white thallid deck...

obviously i'm way behind the pulse as i havent played in just under a decade


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## Mist Puppet (Jan 18, 2011)

Man, the last deck I bought was a Bait and Switch (blue/black) deck. 

The rest I just pick up from friends who didn't play anymore


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## AlexIwi (Jan 18, 2011)

Black Lotus is too cheap of a card. </3


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## Sedaiv (Jan 21, 2011)

My fucking area doesn't have constructed, it's ALWAYS draft. I'm done with the game since noone plays it that does constructed. REAL shame since I got a lot of nice vintage stuff.


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## SageMaster (Jan 23, 2011)

I love my white/blue deck.

What are your favorite colors?


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## LifeMaker (Jan 24, 2011)

white/red are my favourites

but i do love the insanity of a lot of the black cards


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## Slice (Jan 24, 2011)

Old player reporting in!

Played from Ice Age onwards up to Mirrodin, after that lost track of most of the the cards because of the horrible new designs and obvious power creep.

Still have my old decks, Green / Black revival is where its at!


And by designs i dont necessary mean the card borders, more stuff like "Axe wielding anthropomorphic cats shamans".

Summon Knight was somewhat cooler than "Creature - _'inserthomecountry'_ Human Knight"


Now i feel old again


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## ZenGamr (Jan 24, 2011)

Affinity deck FTW! I do hope the modular artifacts make a return in the next expansion.


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## Slice (Jan 24, 2011)

I just read through the new Mirrodin cards.

They are bringing Phyrexia back! 
I always loved those cards.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 24, 2011)

Favorite colors? I pretty much like all of them but i have a few favorite combos, BU and GW.

Phyrexia's return was the bomb, i haven't been playing long but i read up on a lot of the old sets so seeing a return to Mirrodin and Phyrexia's comeback was excellent.


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## ZenGamr (Jan 24, 2011)

Tezzy 2.0 is so sexy. Free 5/5 indestructibles with ? I think so!


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 25, 2011)

I fucking LOVE, the new Tezz. I'd give my left nut for a playset of him right now.


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## ZenGamr (Jan 25, 2011)

Yeah, I'm going to get him as soon as possible. At least before someone breaks him and he becomes the next $100 planeswalker.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 25, 2011)

He's only 35 bucks on Channelfireball, i'm ordering him as soon as i can.


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 3, 2011)

Anyone check out the full list of new cards in Mirrodin Besieged?



Blightsteel colossus is pretty insane if you get it on the field, you could end an opponent in a single hit.

It also looks like Myr's may finally become a truly formidable creature type.  A buddy of mine tried to build a Myr deck but got hammered by other creature decks like Allies, Slivers and Zombies.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 7, 2011)

Blightsteel....the next Emrakul? Close to it i say. So anyone got goodies from Besieged yet? or even new decks made?


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 7, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Blightsteel....the next Emrakul? Close to it i say.



I've managed to win a few games with Emrakul, its a much more fun way to win in my opinion.  Destroying your opponents permanents basically crushes their will to keep playing.

Especially if you get "It that Betrays" onto the field.  I had the two of them on the field in a multiplayer game and it was fantastic.



Butō Renjin said:


> So anyone got goodies from Besieged yet? or even new decks made?



 I grabbed a booster box on saturday, I've started putting together a myr deck to see how it plays.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 7, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I've managed to win a few games with Emrakul, its a much more fun way to win in my opinion. Destroying your opponents permanents basically crushes their will to keep playing.
> 
> Especially if you get "It that Betrays" onto the field. I had the two of them on the field in a multiplayer game and it was fantastic.


Excellent  i love all the Eldrazi big daddies. Crushing your opponent with muscle is the coolest way to win.





> I grabbed a booster box on saturday, I've started putting together a myr deck to see how it plays.


I've yet to make any Besieged purchases but my buddy's got a Booster Box coming to him by mail. He's seriously deadset on making a Tezzeret-Darksteel combo deck spamming the crap out of Tezzy's -1. It's a good idea, a field full of 5/5 indestructibles.


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 8, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Excellent  i love all the Eldrazi big daddies. Crushing your opponent with muscle is the coolest way to win.



When you have "It That Betrays" on the field you can win by theft and muscle, its that much more fun 



Butō Renjin said:


> I've yet to make any Besieged purchases but my buddy's got a Booster Box coming to him by mail. He's seriously deadset on making a Tezzeret-Darksteel combo deck spamming the crap out of Tezzy's -1. It's a good idea, a field full of 5/5 indestructibles.



I've been wanting to try his -4 with Myr Turbine, basically keep pumping out Myr tokens while using his +1 to add more and more artifacts to your hand.  You only need 10 on the field to kill someone with his -4.

Even if you don't kill them you can cause serious damage and pump up your life.


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## Slice (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm surprised that this thread isnt more active.

Has Magic lost this much of its fanbase in the last years?


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 10, 2011)

Slice said:


> I'm surprised that this thread isnt more active.
> 
> Has Magic lost this much of its fanbase in the last years?



I don't think its that so much as not as many fans of Magic and Naruto as are fans of Magic and say Yugioh.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 10, 2011)

Magic is still hella popular, guess Naruto fans don't find it appealing.


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## noobthemusical (Feb 11, 2011)

Yeah it's still popular I think the only dead card game is pokemon.


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## Draffut (Feb 19, 2011)

Gig said:


> I agree MTG is awesome. unfortunate my only experience is from playing duels of the planeswalkers on xbox 360, the game as a whole seems very good, there are some horrendously broken cards though like Tinker and wheel of fortune.



There's a reason those two cards are banned or restirected in every format.

Anyhow, since I started going back to college there is a large group who plays there.  So I went and broke out my 8000+ old ass cards and started playing.  Liking it quite a lot, but a few of the new things have gotten somewhat out of control.  (Jace, Eldrazi, and Elves come to mind)

In the midst of building an EDH deck and being the indecisive person I am, still have yet to even pick a general.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm waiting for the EDH PreCons to come out. Building a deck from scratch has never been my forte, so having a platform to start with is right up my alley.

I have to agree with you about some of the newer broken things. In particular Elves and Green as a color in general. Honestly right now green's the color to beat and has been for awhile, since it's the only color that ramps and does so efficiently. I wasn't around for the days of suicide black ramp but they make me think of what could be right now and what Wizards is letting fall through their hands. Sure, control is fun and is one of the few ways in which one has to sit back and think ahead a few steps but that only goes so far and only does so much on top of that not everyone likes playing blue and the sad thing is green can easily topple them with the advantage in speed.

It's not impossible to get around that advantage, just like it's not impossible to get around control but damned if it isn't a task. Maybe i'm just being too pessimistic about it


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## noobthemusical (Feb 21, 2011)

I dunno man I think the right combo of Red burn could beat any/most green aggro combos.


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 21, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> I dunno man I think the right combo of Red burn could beat any/most green aggro combos.



The right combo of any color can beat any other color.

I've taken my eldrazi deck up against burn decks and once I get a relatively cheap eldrazi like ulamog's crusher on the field it pretty quickly starts to cripple my enemies strategy.

Kind of hard to play burn spells when you're sacrificing 2 permanents every turn in addition do any damage he does or creatures he kills.  That's not even to say if I get another ulamog's crusher or a bigger eldrazi on the field.

With things like lanowar elves and overgrown battlement battlement its not that hard to get big cards down quickly and start laying waste.


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## Draffut (Feb 21, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> The right combo of any color can beat any other color.
> 
> I've taken my eldrazi deck up against burn decks and once I get a relatively cheap eldrazi like ulamog's crusher on the field it pretty quickly starts to cripple my enemies strategy.
> 
> ...



Well, thats why green is so sick right now, it's pretty easy to get 6-7 mana by turn 2 or 3 and just lay down  swarthes of elves that all pump each other beyond the range of most burn.

When I see eldrazi though, I like to run my blue and roil elemental those guys.


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 21, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Well, thats why green is so sick right now, it's pretty easy to get 6-7 mana by turn 2 or 3 and just lay down  swarthes of elves that all pump each other beyond the range of most burn.
> 
> When I see eldrazi though, I like to run my blue and roil elemental those guys.



Haha yeah, I've had my eldrazi taken before.  Its a real kick in the crotch to put so much effort into getting them down only to have them turned on you.

I built a green deck around Progenitus a while back.  I actually managed to get him down on turn 4 once which is surprisingly easy with cards like Elvish Piper or Natural Order (if you're playing older cards).

I've actually had people concede as soon as he's on the field.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 21, 2011)

Progenitus is a sick card, i can see why some would scoop after that 

On a side note anyone like Iona, Shield of Emeria? I love her so much. I think she's underrated.


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## Tsukiyomi (Feb 21, 2011)

Yeah I bought the Angels vs Demons duel deck and worked Iona into the deck.  Its another thing that could make your opponent just give up, especially with monocolor decks.


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## Butō Rengoob (Feb 21, 2011)

That's exactly why i love her, she's awesome in the late game for UW control.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 1, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Yeah I bought the Angels vs Demons duel deck and worked Iona into the deck.  Its another thing that could make your opponent just give up, especially with monocolor decks.



Oh God yeah I totally hate her when she comes out (against me). I mean is it even possible for a mono color to win when it comes out. Assuming of course that it isn't already a lost cause for the player summoning Iona.

But yeah great card.


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 1, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Oh God yeah I totally hate her when she comes out (against me). I mean is it even possible for a mono color to win when it comes out. Assuming of course that it isn't already a lost cause for the player summoning Iona.
> 
> But yeah great card.



The only way to win at that point is if you either have something already out to deal with her or if you have something like an artifact down that can help deal with her.

If you have a card like quicksilver amulet or dragon arch down you could still pull off a win.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 3, 2011)

Artifacts, Iona's bane


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 4, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Artifacts, Iona's bane



Indeed, every card has its vulnerabilities.  Though if you have Iona on the field against a mono color deck you're pretty set.

Cards like Nevinyrral's Disk are good at that point since even if you could somehow start putting creatures down again you're still dealing with a 7/7 with flying.

Until very recently I used to run a casual artifact deck full of broken cards (Tolarian Academy and Tinker anyone?) and managed to get Etched Champion equipped with World Slayer with Darksteel Forge down on the field.  Not to mention a deck full of artifact lands to keep pulling down other artifacts.

Once that combo was down it was pretty much game over.  Even in a multiplayer game it pretty much renders you unbeatable.  You're constantly wiping out every permanent every other player controls.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 4, 2011)

Iona's one big reason i'm wary when using Mono-colored decks, but generally many don't make use her, at least not in a FNM or MNM setting (which i attend occasionally). 

On the topic of Artifacts, i'm actually a huge Artifact buff, mainly because they cross the color border and have so many varied uses. Which is why i love the fact we're back in a Mirrodin setting. I wasn't around for the old Mirrodin and don't have the awesome brokeness of Artifact lands and Affinity for a casual setting.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 5, 2011)

Speaking of Artifacts any of you guys love/hate the Phyrexian Revoker?


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 5, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Speaking of Artifacts any of you guys love/hate the Phyrexian Revoker?



I haven't had a chance to try it yet, it could be pretty useful when going up against a something like Royal Assassin or crippling a planeswalker.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 5, 2011)

Phyrexian Revoker is a good card, not a Main Board though, definitely Side Board.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 14, 2011)

Okay today I pulled of the most hilarious win, with my aura deck.

My friends got got his Liege of the Tangle out turn 4. 
On my turn 4 he blocked and killed my Gnarlid. 
At that point he pretty much thought I was fucked since I put had no other creatures out. He swung for 6 and gave all his lands counters.
I summoned my Palace Guard and gave it hyena umbra.
He attacked with everything.
I played Righteousness


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 18, 2011)

Aura decks any good? I'm actually gonna try my hand at a Defender deck


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## noobthemusical (Mar 22, 2011)

I swear by Aura decks man.
What color man?


I suggest white because.
Really once you get s Kor spiritdancer out it's pretty much game.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 22, 2011)

I was thinking white/red, white/green or white/red/green. Green i want mostly for Overgrown Battlement and Wall of Tanglecord, Red, because i want to use Red Sun Zenith is conjunction with OB, just supplement all that green mana into the random cost and blast 'em for the win. Control will, of course, be that strategies main foil.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 22, 2011)

Well for W/G defender Aura.
I'd put 4 Perimeter captain, 4 Wall of omen, along with 4 each of you OB and WoT.
The a Kor Spiritdancer or Aura Gnarlid as a finisher. (Or both)
Then 4 each of Hyena and Spider Umbra. 4 Canopy covers. 4 Gigantiform.

I mean really with this setup you could drop an Aura Gnarlid a 9/9 by turn 4.
T1. Plain PC
T2. Forest OB
T3. Plain PC - WO
T4. Forest Gnarlid - Giant form.

Okay so you'd pretty much need to god hand it, but really there's no reason you couldn't stall till you drew the needed cards.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 22, 2011)

I'll have to throw some ideas around, make some tweaks but i think you've got a good setup there. I'll have to test it out.


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## Starstalker (Mar 22, 2011)

Love mtg...too bad people here prefer Fagg-ot-oh


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 22, 2011)

Not all of us can have good taste man


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## Tsukiyomi (Mar 22, 2011)

Anyone here play online with magic workstation?  I've been thinking about trying to find more opponents online.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 23, 2011)

Starstalker said:


> Love mtg...too bad people here prefer Fagg-ot-oh



It's not that bad. YGO is actually a pretty good card game. I used to play it a lot but ever since the local card shop stopped it's tourneys and my other friends finally started playing MTG as well I pretty much only play MTG at this point.


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## Butō Rengoob (Mar 24, 2011)

I used to like YGO. it was fun back in HS but when my friends stopped playing i stopped too. Then we just kinda found Magic and i realized it was a lot more fun to play.


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## noobthemusical (Mar 25, 2011)

Guys do you think I did a good trade.

1 mirran crusader and 5$ for a set of Swords to Plowshares?


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## Darth (Mar 25, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Guys do you think I did a good trade.
> 
> 1 mirran crusader and 5$ for a set of Swords to Plowshares?



come on man. all you have to do is find the price of the cards.


mirran crusader's worth about 5 bucks. Unless it's foil, then it's around 7.50. 

Swords to Plowshares is worth around 3.75 a piece. You said you got four? 

You paid roughly ten dollars for 15 dollars worth of cards. So yeah, you did good.

here
Link removed


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## Mirrow (Apr 2, 2011)

My friend has a white deck that is stuffed full of healing spells so I stick in a Kavu predator to my mono green. The thing ended up at like 50/50 it was glorious . Also what your favourite decks everyone?


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## materpillar (Apr 3, 2011)

I completely love my Braids, Conjurer Adept deck.  It never seems to be over or under powered against other casual decks.

Besides there is nothing like playing Akroma in a mono-blue deck


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## noobthemusical (Apr 4, 2011)

My Knight deck.

It might not be the most powerful but I've built it to be good in any scenario, and I love modding it for color hate.


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## Mirrow (Apr 4, 2011)

@matterpillar yeah braids, conjurer adept goes to town with vodalian illusionist or something similar. It's nice being able to casually send out a darksteel colossus free of charge. very nice.

@noobthemusical My friend got the knights vs dragons duel decks they are fun.


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## Draffut (Apr 4, 2011)

Some New Phyrexia cards got leaked, and they are insane.



> *Chancellor of the Furnace*
> Rare
> 4RRR
> 5/5
> ...





> *Phyrexian Canceller*
> Mythic
> BBBB
> Creature - Horror
> ...





> *Karn the Released*
> Mythic
> (mana cost) 7
> Planeswalker - Karn
> ...





> *Puresteel Paladin*
> Rare
> WW
> 2/2
> ...



And a few others.  That Puresteel Paladin is gonna be rape in my Kemba EDH, deck.  Karn looks sick, and I don't have words for how broken the Canceller is.


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## noobthemusical (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh no Karn became corrupted.
Clearly to counter Canceller the return of white instant exile is need, swords to plowshare reprint 
Seriously though it is possibly a new Baneslayer, in terms of the bitching about how OP it is, because really condemn is useless against it.


BRB grabbing some Jitte's, and Argentum's. Also Accorder shield now playable? Probably not still tempting if you could drop 3 of them while your Knight was out. Free 0/+3 vigilance


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## Butō Rengoob (Apr 5, 2011)

Karn!


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## noobthemusical (Apr 5, 2011)

you will benefit from reading this easy-to-read flash animated guide that covers everything you need to know about mafia.


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## materpillar (Apr 5, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> @matterpillar yeah braids, conjurer adept goes to town with vodalian illusionist or something similar. It's nice being able to casually send out a darksteel colossus free of charge. very nice.



I think my package of big beasties is
Darksteel Colossus
Sundering Titan
Inkwell Leviathan
Stormtide Leviathan
Projenny *2
Emrakul
Blazing Archon
Akroma, Angel of Wrath

Big beefy, hard to kill or completely stop aggro.  Most importantly they have awesome pics 

Braids best friend is actually Glen Elandra Arch Mage.  Nothing like dropping Braids Turn 5 with a blue mana open to counter any kill spell thrown her way.


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## Mirrow (Apr 5, 2011)

materpillar said:


> I think my package of big beasties is
> Darksteel Colossus
> Sundering Titan
> Inkwell Leviathan
> ...



That's a fine set of freaking epic monsters.


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## materpillar (Apr 5, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> That's a fine set of freaking epic monsters.


Yeppy.  Sundering looks to be a weak link, but he can eat people in my metagame.  Lots of people like running 5 color decks, and I've had him eat an island, swamp, plains, mountain and forest of one opponent.  Not to mention I run a playset of boomerangs and unsummon for more LD fun 

I think my favorite thing to do with this deck is to play gifts ungiven at the end of my opponents turn searching for projenny, emerakul and the double leviathans.  It ruins people's day.

Also, some times braids just gets killed by everyone forever.  Then I have to fall back to Plan B.  Hardcast Darksteel.  Its very enjoyable to tap 11 islands at once and drop him.


But like I said the reason I really really love this deck is because it can lose _so_ hard.  Like this game against my brother.

My Turn 4: Drop Braids. Ship turn.
My Brothers turn 4:  Drop masticore, play land.  Ping braids to death with masticore.
Me -> 

My other friend steamrolled me multiple games with his terrible myr deck.  Turns out mortipod is a house against a deck full of 1/1 wizards.


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## Mirrow (Apr 6, 2011)

Building a mono black discard deck. any suggestions beyond the obvious?


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## noobthemusical (Apr 6, 2011)

Hmm what's in your deck so far?

Also 

Use the thread.


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## Draffut (Apr 6, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Building a mono black discard deck. any suggestions beyond the obvious?



I personally run Isochron Scepters /w Funeral Charms and Hypnotic Spectres /w Viridian Longbow to make my opponent discard as soon as they draw.

Hymn to Tourach is probably the most mana-efficient discard sorcery out there.

Leliana's Caress, Megrims, and Painful Quandry are all much fun to run too.

Also, Animate Dead.  You can either use it to bring back their discarded creatures, or do a turn 1 *Swamp, Dark Rit, Funeral Charm (Discard big creature), Animate dead*


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## Mirrow (Apr 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Hmm what's in your deck so far?
> 
> Also
> 
> Use the thread.



I haven't got anything so far so I thought I'd just ask around here instead.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I personally run Isochron Scepters /w Funeral Charms and Hypnotic Spectres /w Viridian Longbow to make my opponent discard as soon as they draw.
> 
> Hymn to Tourach is probably the most mana-efficient discard sorcery out there.
> 
> ...



Much appreciated, wasn't aware of a couple of those.


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## Butō Rengoob (Apr 10, 2011)

Anyone pick up the Dragons vs. Knights duel decks?


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## noobthemusical (Apr 11, 2011)

Yeah I bought the decks. Dragon deck is the stronger of the 2 but IMO I think the knight deck has more potential.

I think wizard was either stupid or trolling us with putting a white knight in the knight deck instead of a second silver knight. Also I would have settled for removing a rare knight for some fetch lands.




Also Exemplar should have been foil mythic.


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## KittieSocks (Apr 12, 2011)

Just started playing this, my other half loves it so he's trying to get me to understand how to play it.


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## Butō Rengoob (Apr 12, 2011)

And another Planeswalker enters the fray 

Hope you find it fun to play.


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## KittieSocks (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm getting my head around it, it doesn't seem too complicated yet...!


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## Butō Rengoob (Apr 12, 2011)

Yeah it's really not complicated, there are just a lot of combos you can do so it's a strategic game as much as one based on luck. Once you get the basics of play and all the jargon down it's so simple.


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## Draffut (Apr 13, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Also I would have settled for removing a rare knight for some fetch lands.



Blizz would have to be deranged to add any of the dual fetches to that.


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## noobthemusical (Apr 13, 2011)

Even a just a terramorphic?


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## Draffut (Apr 13, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Even a just a terramorphic?




Nope.

I thought you were refereing to the 10 dual fetches.  Windswept Heath inparticular here.  Terramorphic would be kinda bad in a dual color.


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## noobthemusical (Apr 13, 2011)

Well I meant the dual WH would be a bit to powerful though I still think adding one would would have been cool. Also they could have added scapeshift.


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## KittieSocks (Apr 18, 2011)

What's the rarest card for MTG?


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## noobthemusical (Apr 18, 2011)

The rarest non unique card is a Black Lotus.

There are a few rarer cards but they aren't really obtainable. (They are also shit in terms of gameplay value.)


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## Geralt of Rivia (Apr 18, 2011)

So what is the current most powerful tournament-sanctioned deck? And what are some other tier-1 or tier-2 level decks that are extremely fun to play? I like to go with themes like zombie or fiend decks, but I don't know how effective they are, I haven't played for like 6 years.


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## noobthemusical (Apr 18, 2011)

I believe currently vampires are the best black tribe to use. Right now artifacts and Infect decks seem to be good, though you could try landfall or RDW decks for standard.

Also IMO knight decks are fun to use.


Also say hello to the new swords/path 


Completely confirmed.

Damn now my friend has better removal than me in standard. Still my only completely standard deck runs Phyrexian crusaders, so F his mono white artifact.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Apr 19, 2011)

I think I'm going to re-emerge into this game with a zombie deck, then try for more advanced things later. I always liked zombies. Last time I played XYZ cannon was the shit lol.


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## Draffut (Apr 19, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> I think I'm going to re-emerge into this game with a zombie deck, then try for more advanced things later. I always liked zombies. Last time I played XYZ cannon was the shit lol.



Zombies don't really have a place in standard atm.  You could run an infect deck with a few zombies though.

Grave Titan makes zombies, but that's for a different type of deck.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Apr 19, 2011)

I see, thanks.


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## Draffut (Apr 19, 2011)

100% Ichigo said:


> I see, thanks.



Vampires are pretty good right now.  They are the only real tribal deck in standard atm, since elves have been dissapearing.


----------



## materpillar (Apr 20, 2011)

Full spoiler of the new set at mtgsalvation

Looks awesome


----------



## KittieSocks (Apr 21, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> The rarest non unique card is a Black Lotus.
> 
> There are a few rarer cards but they aren't really obtainable. (They are also shit in terms of gameplay value.)



Fair enough, I was just wondering


----------



## noobthemusical (Apr 21, 2011)

materpillar said:


> Full spoiler of the new set at mtgsalvation
> 
> Looks awesome



BatterSkull.

5 for 4/4 vigilance lifelink that you can give to anything? Yes please


----------



## Darth (Apr 22, 2011)

materpillar said:


> Full spoiler of the new set at mtgsalvation
> 
> Looks awesome



I'm freaking out at some of the bullshit they're introducing. 

Have you seen the five Praetors? And the Shrines? And Karn? Holy fuck talk about broken. 

*Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Legendary Creature - Praetor	
Flash
At the beginning of your end step, draw seven cards.
Each opponent's maximum hand size is reduced by seven.*


----------



## noobthemusical (Apr 22, 2011)

You could still lost if Hypothetically your opponent had some combo that made sure he/she would last the turns needed for you to mill yourself.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Apr 22, 2011)

Wow that's crazy broken


----------



## snoph (Apr 23, 2011)

Darth said:


> I'm freaking out at some of the bullshit they're introducing.
> 
> Have you seen the five Praetors? And the Shrines? And Karn? Holy fuck talk about broken.
> 
> ...





why?


----------



## noobthemusical (Apr 23, 2011)

Oh come on guys what are the chances you don't lose by the time you summon it.

Still I'd love it for casual.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Apr 23, 2011)

I'm just saying, if that thing get's into play it's a bitch but yeah it's probably not gonna see a lot of Standard play. Casual beast though.


----------



## noobthemusical (Apr 23, 2011)

Also 

Corrupted Resolve	1U
Instant	
Counter target spell if its controller is poisoned.
"Flesh is a sickness that infects Phyrexia."
 -Avaricta, Gitaxian sective

Hell yeah. Mono Blue Control Infect?




















Random Deck list.
Spells
4 Of this +
4 CounterSpell
4 Deprive
4 Mana Leak
4 Mana Drain
4 Jace
Total: 24

12 infect creatures???

4 copies of each of the original Dual lands with Blue. Why because you never know what color the creatures might be
8 fetch lands.


Profit???????


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Apr 28, 2011)

Darth said:


> I'm freaking out at some of the bullshit they're introducing.
> 
> Have you seen the five Praetors? And the Shrines? And Karn? Holy fuck talk about broken.
> 
> ...



That one just doesn't seem like it would make the game any fun.  Same thing with Sheoldred:

*Sheoldred, Whispering One*
*Swampwalk
At the beginning of your upkeep, return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player sacrifices a creature.*

Since its a sacrifice even protection wouldn't save your creatures against this beast.

Granted they're all expensive summons but you don't always hard cast creatures.  Then you have EDH, I can't imagine these cards will go too long without being banned in that format....though now that I think about it Iona isn't banned in EDH and that's about as broken a card as you can get.


----------



## Draffut (Apr 28, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> That one just doesn't seem like it would make the game any fun.  Same thing with Sheoldred:
> 
> *Sheoldred, Whispering One*
> *Swampwalk
> ...



EDH is a format focused on multiplayer.  Iona shouldn't be able to shut down more than one player really.  It's good but not that broken.  (If you want a broken card, look up *Tinker*)

And Sheoldred will not be banned entirely, as she is so susceptible to removal, has a very high mana cost, etc.  It MAY be banned as a General like Braids, Cabal Minion is though.  Really, I would be more afraid of a sac focused Savra, Queen of the Golgari EDH than Sheoldred.  You just dont have creatures is she goes off.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Apr 28, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> EDH is a format focused on multiplayer.  Iona shouldn't be able to shut down more than one player really.  It's good but not that broken.  (If you want a broken card, look up *Tinker*)



I actually have an artifact deck I run whenever its an "anything goes" match that has Tinker, Tolarian Academy and 4 of every artifact land.



Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> And Sheoldred will not be banned entirely, as she is so susceptible to removal, has a very high mana cost, etc.  It MAY be banned as a General like Braids, Cabal Minion is though.  Really, I would be more afraid of a sac focused Savra, Queen of the Golgari EDH than Sheoldred.  You just dont have creatures is she goes off.



I meant as a General.  Having Sheoldred as your General would make the game pretty lame overall.


----------



## Draffut (May 1, 2011)

So, I am loving this Mindcrank card.  With Bloodchief Ascension it's basically an almost infinite life gain/damage/mill combo that is extremely easy to trigger, and quite fast.




> I actually have an artifact deck I run whenever its an "anything goes" match that has Tinker, Tolarian Academy and 4 of every artifact land.



I like my friends blue one that runs a bunch of 0 drop artifacts, tinker, tolarian, and blightsteel collosus.

With a good draw it's a turn 1 blightsteel with lightning greaves kills you.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 1, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> I like my friends blue one that runs a bunch of 0 drop artifacts, tinker, tolarian, and blightsteel collosus.
> 
> With a good draw it's a turn 1 blightsteel with lightning greaves kills you.



How does he pull off a turn 1 blightsteel and lightning greaves?


----------



## noobthemusical (May 1, 2011)

Probably.

3 Memnites or any Zero drop artifact/
1 Mox opal
1 Tolarian
1 Tinker
1 Greaves



Still won't beat out
1 Black Lotus
1 Seething Song
1 Quest of pure flames
4 Lightning bolt.


----------



## Draffut (May 1, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> How does he pull off a turn 1 blightsteel and lightning greaves?



5 0 drops, tolarian, greaves, tinker (pulls blightsteel) swing for kill.

It's an ideal draw, but there is enough other shenanigans in there to stall a few turns to set it up otherwise..  (Panoptic mirror for infinite turns, etc.)

He runs lots of silly decks like that.  March of the Machines + Isochron Scepter + To Arms! is fun to.  Throw in a sol ring and it's over.

He also runs a Astral Slide deck with Library of Leng.  Keeping 4 players creature base locked down at once is a pain.  I think he just tossed in Precursor Golems for fun ETB effects to.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 5, 2011)

So anyone planning to pre-release?


----------



## Mirrow (May 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> So anyone planning to pre-release?



I was going to but I decided against it because I am poor at the moment


----------



## TeenRyu (May 7, 2011)

Help!  Im coming back into magic after 4+ years, so I need help making a Rainbow Dragon Deck!


----------



## Mirrow (May 7, 2011)

TeenRyu said:


> Help!  Im coming back into magic after 4+ years, so I need help making a Rainbow Dragon Deck!



manamorphose, rite of flame, seething song etc. + Dragonstorm =


----------



## noobthemusical (May 8, 2011)

So I went to pre-release not to join cause they were out of slots. But to buy cards cause that's the only time everyone is there.

>MFW my friend gets 2 Sheoldred for 5 Dollars.


----------



## Draffut (May 9, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> So I went to pre-release not to join cause they were out of slots. But to buy cards cause that's the only time everyone is there.
> 
> >MFW my friend gets 2 Sheoldred for 5 Dollars.



Only worth like 3-4 bucks each anyhow.

Friend got both a sword of war and peace and battleskull at the draft.  

I was bullshit.  I got a Venser and  a bunch of crap, thats it.


----------



## Mirrow (May 10, 2011)

Don't you guys love it when you get a brand new deck?


----------



## Draffut (May 10, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Don't you guys love it when you get a brand new deck?



I'll let you know when I put together either of my planned decks.

Anyhow, I am quite curious to see how badly Mental Misstep changes legacy.  Goblins were already in hard times, and now they will basically worthless.  Other decks like countertop, elves, zoo, and a bunch of combo ones are going to be hurt by it pretty bad.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 11, 2011)

Anyone have a list of cards designed by players/tournament winners. Like Solemn Simulacrum and the 1996 WC card? I'm kinda curious.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 11, 2011)

Most Hilarious match today. My friend bought the premium Sliver deck, and a few other cards to make it better. Using Sliver Queen and a Few other cards he made 70 Tokens (Because we ran out of extra cards to use). Sadly he never had a chance of winning. The next player had Black Sun's Zenith. The one after had Phyrexian Rebirth. I had Day Shit was hilarious.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 11, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Most Hilarious match today. My friend bought the premium Sliver deck, and a few other cards to make it better. Using Sliver Queen and a Few other cards he made 70 Tokens (Because we ran out of extra cards to use). Sadly he never had a chance of winning. The next player had Black Sun's Zenith. The one after had Phyrexian Rebirth. I had Day Shit was hilarious.



Lol wow that sucks.  That's why when I tweaked the premium sliver deck I put in Sliver Legion and Crypt Sliver.  Exactly for situations like that.  That's just shitty luck though.


----------



## Mirrow (May 15, 2011)

My friend got three mythics in six booster packs. And my other friend got zero in nine.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 16, 2011)

So any cards you guys wanna see reprinted in M12?

My hope is on Silver Knight.

And maybe White knight Variant that's protection from green.


----------



## Slice (May 16, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Most Hilarious match today. My friend bought the premium Sliver deck, and a few other cards to make it better. Using Sliver Queen and a Few other cards he made 70 Tokens (Because we ran out of extra cards to use). Sadly he never had a chance of winning. The next player had Black Sun's Zenith. The one after had Phyrexian Rebirth. I had Day Shit was hilarious.



What is this premium Sliver deck? Does it include any new ones?

I still have my old 5 colour Sliver deck from the Tempest block lying around here somewhere... i loved that deck.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 16, 2011)

> Land
> 2 Ancient Ziggurat
> 5 Forest
> 2 Island
> ...



And they are all foil.


----------



## Slice (May 16, 2011)

This looks interresting from a collectors POV. Maybe i will pick this up


----------



## Draffut (May 16, 2011)

Slice said:


> This looks interresting from a collectors POV. Maybe i will pick this up



Ya, I turned it into an EDH with Legion and Queen.  There's so many shenanigans you can do with slivers.  Intruder alarm, Gemhide, and Overlord is my favorite though.  Throw Amoeboid Changeling in there to take the opponents entire board while you are at it. 

Pulmonic Sliver is good for board wipes.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 17, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Ya, I turned it into an EDH with Legion and Queen.  There's so many shenanigans you can do with slivers.  Intruder alarm, Gemhide, and Overlord is my favorite though.  Throw Amoeboid Changeling in there to take the opponents entire board while you are at it.
> 
> Pulmonic Sliver is good for board wipes.



Overlord is the best general in EDH for slivers.  You can just keep using his ability to pull whatever you want and the Amoeboid Changeling combo never gets old.


----------



## Slice (May 17, 2011)

When the Sliver Overlord came out in "Scourge" i was so excited for the possibilities.
Then it turned out you dont get to use him very much because you blow all your mana while trying to keep your hand <7 cards.

In EDH i can see him beeing boss though if you really want to. But there i would not play Slivers - only 1 Muscle Sliver? Oh please...


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 18, 2011)

Slice said:


> In EDH i can see him beeing boss though if you really want to. But there i would not play Slivers - only 1 Muscle Sliver? Oh please...



There are plenty of other slivers that pump up their stats, not to mention cards like coat of arms.  Don't forget changelings, they have all creature types so they kick ass in decks like slivers.  They get all the benefits the other slivers give them but are expendable because losing them doesn't lose you any abilities.


----------



## Draffut (May 18, 2011)

Slice said:


> When the Sliver Overlord came out in "Scourge" i was so excited for the possibilities.
> Then it turned out you dont get to use him very much because you blow all your mana while trying to keep your hand <7 cards.
> 
> In EDH i can see him beeing boss though if you really want to. But there i would not play Slivers - only 1 Muscle Sliver? Oh please...



Actually you can have 2, there's a white sliver who also gives +1/+1.  But Muscle Sliver is kinda junky in EDH.  Might is much better.  And they are both overshadowed by ones like Harmonic, Necrotic, Shifting, Gemhide, Root, and Crystalline.

I used to run Psychic.  Until I got hit with mindslaver (The stupidest card ever printed) and watched all by slivers suicide to nuke the shit out of myself.

Anouther fun thing to do is run an Ally EDH with Sliver Queen as your general and Conspiracy/Xenograft.  2 mana put an ally into play?  yes please.  

Both those cards can already make infinite allies with Turntimber Ranger anyow, and it's easy to turn that into infinite allies with queen.


----------



## Mirrow (May 19, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EYtRgvDnE[/YOUTUBE]

 Anyone else freakin' excited?


----------



## Draffut (May 19, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EYtRgvDnE[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Anyone else freakin' excited?



Kinda.  I am really hoping for new versions of the planeswalkers though.  They are never gonna reprint Jace 2, and Jace 1 is just junk now.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (May 19, 2011)

Video made me shit bricks.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 21, 2011)

Nice that Video was badass. Although that's not how Gideon sounded in my head.

Also guys In a Knight deck which card is better

Knight of Meadowgrain
vs
Knight of the holy nimbus.

I have both but have never been too sure about which is better. Opinions?


----------



## TruEorFalse_21 (May 21, 2011)




----------



## Slice (May 21, 2011)

TruEorFalse_21 said:


> Nicol Bolas scoffs at Gideon's friendship speech



How dare the guy interrupting him reading his favourite book?


----------



## noobthemusical (May 21, 2011)

Nicol Bolas wishes he could grow up and become Yagwamoth.


----------



## Mirrow (May 26, 2011)

Magic 12!

*Spoiler*: __ 








Hexproof, very nice.


----------



## Darth (May 26, 2011)

Looks fake.

Hexproof is shroud. Why rename Shroud?

In other news, went 4-1 at last weeks FNM with my money white awesome deck. 

Problem being, the deck takes so long to win sometimes, we ran out of time...

still. Lost the championship match. Still bitter about it. Reworked the deck and discovered the wonders of Surge Node + Everflowing chalice. 8 mana available on turn 4 using mono white.

Holy shit angels rape fast. Beautiful combo


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 26, 2011)

Darth said:


> Looks fake.
> 
> Hexproof is shroud. Why rename Shroud?



Its real. 

Hexproof is different than shroud in that you can still target your own creature with things like giant growth but your creature can't get hit with your opponents spells.

Shroud stops any abilities from targeting your creature even your own.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (May 27, 2011)

Looks real enough to me and as Tsukiyomi said, Hexproof is different from Shroud. Besides shouldn't we be getting spoilers for M12 anyway? It's close enough to release.


----------



## Mirrow (May 27, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Its real.
> 
> Hexproof is different than shroud in that you can still target your own creature with things like giant growth but your creature can't get hit with your opponents spells.
> 
> Shroud stops any abilities from targeting your creature even your own.



This.

Also they have changed the terminology from 'when this creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield' to 'when this creature dies'.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 27, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> This.
> 
> Also they have changed the terminology from 'when this creature is put into the graveyard from the battlefield' to 'when this creature dies'.



That'll save a lot of space on the cards for other abilities and flavor text.  I'm surprised they didn't do that years ago.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 27, 2011)

Ehh maybe noobs couldn't tell the difference I mean revoke existance, exiles an artifact. But really the art and text combined with a small understanding of the game could make you think your monster had just died. I mean really it's close enough.

Also Official Giant Growth will NOT be reprinted.
Also just to note Gideon Jura and Sorin will be reprinted.

Jace Chandra and Garuk. Will appear but reprint or new card is up for debate. But following the Pattern of 7 reprint mythics and 8 new mythics, and combine with the 98% confirmed Titan Reprint they're probably new.

Also say hello to the promo card that comes with the box.



Also Archon of Justice reprint.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (May 27, 2011)

Pretty sure we're getting Planeswalker reprints and Inistrad is pointing at a new Garruk card anyway. Wouldn't make much sense to make a new Garruk now.


----------



## Draffut (May 27, 2011)

Darth said:


> Looks fake.
> 
> Hexproof is shroud. Why rename Shroud?



It's not Shroud, it's Troll Shroud.



Butō Renjin said:


> Pretty sure we're getting Planeswalker reprints and Inistrad is pointing at a new Garruk card anyway. Wouldn't make much sense to make a new Garruk now.



We're getting atleast a Sorin reprint.  hopefully we get new versions of some of the planewalkers.... probobly not though.


----------



## Slice (May 28, 2011)

I am not a big fan of these new wordings like "creature dies", "the battlefield" and such. I always prefered "into play" and stuff like that i dont want to tell a story i want a game 

Also when some of my friends and me sometimes get the old cards out for a game or two we banned equipments and pleneswalkers via house rule. Never liked these type of cards, most are way too powerful when you mix them with mostly old cards.


----------



## noobthemusical (May 28, 2011)

I want a new Jace better than Little Jace worse than Big Jace. And I wouldn't mind a Big Chandra




Slice said:


> I am not a big fan of these new wordings like "creature dies", "the battlefield" and such. I always prefered "into play" and stuff like that i dont want to tell a story i want a game
> 
> Also when some of my friends and me sometimes get the old cards out for a game or two we banned equipments and pleneswalkers via house rule. Never liked these type of cards, most are way too powerful when you mix them with mostly old cards.



You should ban the older lands. They can be very broken.

I mean did you know that Valakut is a lot more powerful if you replace your forests with the, Original and Ravincia dual lands?


Also really I don't see Planeswalkers or new equipment beating a Necropotence deck. Or a Timevault deck.


----------



## Slice (May 28, 2011)

I  meant in combination with the old ones.

Newly build decks are used to pack a lot of artifact hate to get rid of equipments, ours arent so if you play them they are basically "super enchantments" that dont leave when you get rid of the creature.
And planeswalkers are banned because they alter the way the game and its damage allocation are played, we didnt like that.

A lot of the old cards are insanely overpowered (Library of Alexandria, Ancestral recall, Time Vault, the Black Lotus, Necropotence) but even more of them get absolutely ridiculous in combination with new ones.

For a few years now Magic works best when you build your decks with only the cards of the current block and play against the same decks that did the same. its the most fun then and i guess intended by Wizards - unfortunately it needs way more ? than i am willing to spend on a game i started in 1995 
If i had started just recently or only a few years ago i would support this because there is a lot of challenge in building killer decks when you dont have the entire back catalogue to work with.


Edit

Picture related - ridiculous combo old / new card


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## noobthemusical (May 28, 2011)

Ahh I see your point

Also
Guys should I pay 14 dollars for a one of the world wake Preconstructed decks, just because the booster that's included is worldwake. I mean if I get a good rare that kinda makes up for the cost.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (May 28, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> I want a new Jace better than Little Jace worse than Big Jace. And I wouldn't mind a Big Chandra=



I've wanted a new Sorin for a while.


----------



## Mirrow (May 29, 2011)

Just got one new phyrexia booster pack out of spare change and pulled a batterskull


----------



## Butō Rengoob (May 31, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> We're getting atleast a Sorin reprint. hopefully we get new versions of some of the planewalkers.... probobly not though.


I'm gonna put my money in with reprints of all the Planeswalkers. Save new versions of them for the Blocks.



noobthemusical said:


> I want a new Jace better than Little Jace worse than Big Jace. And I wouldn't mind a Big Chandra


As i said, we should be getting reprints if anything. Makes no sense to give us new 'Walkers in a core set. Inistrad promises at least a new Liliana and that should mean a new Garruk.

Personally i'm of the opinion that all Planeswalkers should get a reprint before the cycle starts anew. So we need a Sorin, Liliana and Garruk reprint before we get Jace, Chandra, Ajani, etc. That's fair and let's each Planeswalker stay in standard for a time, fall out of standard and then get back into it with a new print.

We all know people love their little emo Jace, but others deserve their time in the spotlight too.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 1, 2011)

If they did make a new Garruk what would you guys want from it? I think that wild speaker is beast anyway.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 1, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> If they did make a new Garruk what would you guys want from it? I think that wild speaker is beast anyway.



I'd like some kind of emblem ultimate ability that functions similar to Wild Pair.  Garruk has always been good for mana acceleration but given that he is a master of beasts I'd like his abilities to focus more on getting creatures out as fast as possible.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 2, 2011)

He ultimate should just let you summon any creature and add troll shroud to it's abilities.

-10 Search you deck, or sideboard for a creature card. Put it into play. It gains Hexproof, and Trample.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 2, 2011)

Slice said:


> Picture related - ridiculous combo old / new card
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Painter's/Grindstone isn't that bad.  Only one deck using that made it to the top 8 in the Grand Prix last weekend, and it lost the first round there.  It's actually a deck more prevalent online where some other important legacy cards like Rishidan port are unavailible at the moment.

Actually, the reason I enjoy legacy so much is the large variety of decks playable.  While in Standard and Vintage you generally only have 3-4 really viable decks, (sometimes as few as 1) this Legacy tourny saw 7 different deck types in the top 8.  That's diversity you dont see in this game to often.  It had Zoo and Fish to Hivemind to Landstill.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 2, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I'd like some kind of emblem ultimate ability that functions similar to Wild Pair.  Garruk has always been good for mana acceleration but given that he is a master of beasts I'd like his abilities to focus more on getting creatures out as fast as possible.


 
maybe along the lines of...

+1 put a 1/1 sap into play (something to do with creature tokens)

-3 Put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.

-8 you get an emblem with Whenever a creature enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, you may search your library for a creature card with the same or less converted mana cost and put it into play'

Or something like that.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 2, 2011)

-3 Put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield. That's way too broken. And before someone says that the creature will probably die to removal, well I could cheat a Titan in or maybe a Wurm. Or god help my opponent an Emrakul.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 2, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> -3 Put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield. That's way too broken. And before someone says that the creature will probably die to removal, well I could cheat a Titan in or maybe a Wurm. Or god help my opponent an Emrakul.



Or cards like Progenitus which if dropped are almost untouchable.

Plus -3 for an ability like that is way way too cheap.  Only one Planeswalker comes into play with less than 3 loyalty counters.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 2, 2011)

I wasn't saying that would be perfect I just meant something along those lines. I was taking popular concepts in green that are creature based...
eg. elvish piper


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 2, 2011)

It's a good thought but for -3 yeah, too broken.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 2, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> I wasn't saying that would be perfect I just meant something along those lines. I was taking popular concepts in green that are creature based...
> eg. elvish piper



It could work as maybe a -7.

I still like my idea for the emblem ultimate.  Something that could help you pump out lots of huge creatures really fast.

What kind of abilities would you guys imagine for a new Sorin or Vess?  I have trouble thinking up anything better than their old ultimates that wouldn't be insanely broken.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 2, 2011)

No clue about Vess, as for Sorin...firstly fix his cost. 4 seems to be the new staple cost for Planeswalkers so maybe:

3B and 1Random, starting loyalty of 3

+2 - target Vampire Creature gains Lifelink until end of turn

-4 - All Vampires you control gain +1/+2 until end of turn

-8 - target opponent loses X life for each Vampire creature you control where X is equal to double the number of Vampires you control

My idea. Maybe not the best but Sorin's last rendition focused more on the Life sapping and not enough on Vampire cohesion. Could work on his ultimate though, too similar to the new Tezz's.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 3, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Sorin's last rendition focused more on the Life sapping and not enough on Vampire cohesion. Could work on his ultimate though, too similar to the new Tezz's.



Yup, in his back story Sorin is a master of sangromancy which is all about sucking life out of your enemies, controlling their minds etc...

Its hard to think about new abilities for him that match his back story.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 3, 2011)

I wouldn't mind something like:

GG2

Loyalty 4

+1 

-2 Put an X/1 trample elemental token into play where X is the number of creatures in play.

-7 You get an emblem with ""

But really, the possibilities are endless.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 3, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Yup, in his back story Sorin is a master of sangromancy which is all about sucking life out of your enemies, controlling their minds etc...
> 
> Its hard to think about new abilities for him that match his back story.


I do like that they used his background as a Sangromancer for his first print but when they do a reprint for him i'd like to see something that makes him a good crutch for Vampire decks. I mean he is to Vampires what Nissa is to Elves and Tezzeret to Artifacts. Somehow melding his Sangromancy with Vampire unison would be best and make Vampire fans less mournful over losing Vampire Nocturnus.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 3, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> I mean he is to Vampires what Nissa is to Elves and Tezzeret to Artifacts.



He is?  I don't remember seeing that in his story.  He seems to just go about doing whatever he wants while Nissa actually makes a goal of helping the elves.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 3, 2011)

Maybe a creatures you control get deathtouch and lifelink for Sorin?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 3, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> He is? I don't remember seeing that in his story. He seems to just go about doing whatever he wants while Nissa actually makes a goal of helping the elves.


Cardwise not story wise. He's a Vampire and like Nissa and Tezzeret assist and make use of Elves and Artifacts respectively, his abilities should focus on assisting and using Vampires.

Sorry if it sounded like i meant his story portrayed that.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 3, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Maybe a creatures you control get deathtouch and lifelink for Sorin?



That would be a pretty good mid level ability.  Let you sweep the board and pump up your life at the same time.



Butō Renjin said:


> Cardwise not story wise. He's a Vampire and like Nissa and Tezzeret assist and make use of Elves and Artifacts respectively, his abilities should focus on assisting and using Vampires.
> 
> Sorry if it sounded like i meant his story portrayed that.



Yeah he's a vampire but I'd personally like to see him be more universally usable and not just in a vampire deck.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 3, 2011)

That's what is nice about the current Sorin. He is clearly a vampire card and he works well in vampire decks but he can be used in other decks as well. I hate that green only has one planeswalker practically as Nissa is useless in anything other than elf decks.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 3, 2011)

If Sorin gets new abilities his + ability should be. Destroy Target Creature, you gain 4 Life.

To show that he is such a powerful vampire that he can use feast of blood by himself.


----------



## Urzatron (Jun 5, 2011)

YAY MTG THREAD

Yeah, I don't like Nissa either, too narrow. Her + ability only works with one freaking card, and her others only work with elves.



noobthemusical said:


> If Sorin gets new abilities his + ability should be. Destroy Target Creature, you gain 4 Life.
> 
> To show that he is such a powerful vampire that he can use feast of blood by himself.



That would be really crazy in standard versus a lot of the larger creatures they've been printing, including the Titans (Unless this was printed at 7 mana or more). Aggro weenies wouldn't mind it as much.

I kinda hope the new Lillianna in Innistrad (There probably will be one with the preview art) is cheaper than her normal form. All the black planeswalkers are SO expensive in mana...


You have a really nice sig/avatar, by the way. Crosis's Attendant has good art.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 5, 2011)

I think that Sorin being expensive would be a good reason to let him have a more broken ability. I mean Bolas' + ability is destroy target non creature permanent. Which really means other than Karn no other planeswalker card can beat him.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 5, 2011)

Well whatever happens I would hope that the new planeswalkers are suitably powerful as there is probably going to be an amount of planeswalker removal in upcoming sets.


----------



## Urzatron (Jun 5, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Well whatever happens I would hope that the new planeswalkers are suitably powerful as there is probably going to be an amount of planeswalker removal in upcoming sets.



After experiencing a Jace controlled standard, I'd be happy to never see another planeswalker again. 

But then again, most planeswalkers played in standard have been acceptable, like Ajani Silvermane, Garruk, Elspeth (version 1), or Koth. It's just one guy who decided to piss all over the format.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> I think that Sorin being expensive would be a good reason to let him have a more broken ability. I mean Bolas' + ability is destroy target non creature permanent. Which really means other than Karn no other planeswalker card can beat him.



Pretty sure current Sorin can kill either of them with his mindslaver ability.  He can make them destroy themselves. with their - abilities.


----------



## Urzatron (Jun 6, 2011)

Sorin needs to use his ultimate, though. Karn needs to use his minus ability. Bolas needs to use his plus ability.

Also, all three of them are oldwalkers turned newwalkers, so they probably have more experience with killing 'walkers.

Anyway...

New commander preview cards on the official website, SCG, and the commander website.

And OH MY GOD I WANT TO BUILD AROUND THE MIMEOPLASM SO BAD!!!



DINOSAURS!!!


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 6, 2011)

Liquid Metal Coating on Tezzeret, -1, turn himself into an artifact creature, swing on Bolas. GG


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 6, 2011)

Commander spoiler here. Looks cool, especially as me and my buddies always play free for alls.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 6, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Liquid Metal Coating on Tezzeret, -1, turn himself into an artifact creature, swing on Bolas. GG



Needs another card for the combo


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 6, 2011)

RUG
 Animar, Soul of Elements
Myth.

Legendary Creature – Elemental
Protection from white and from black
 Whenever you cast a creature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Animar, Soul of Elements.
 Creature spells you cast cost 1 less for each counter on Animar.
1/1


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> RUG
> Animar, Soul of Elements
> Myth.
> 
> ...



Damn, that would kill in a deck heavy with artifact creatures.

Any thoughts on this card?



Pulling a random creature out of a graveyard every turn could be quite interesting.  Plus with vigilance it could attack and they tap to use its ability.  That's nuts.


----------



## Urzatron (Jun 6, 2011)

It's like Reya Dawnbringer on crack.

And it's HILARIOUS with Life's Finale. So is Mimeoplasm.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 6, 2011)

So far i'm digging Skullbriar and Animar the most.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 7, 2011)

This card is sex for any dragon deck, and in multi-player, Everyone I gave it shroud PUMP IT WITH ME!


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 7, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> This card is sex for any dragon deck, and in multi-player, Everyone I gave it shroud PUMP IT WITH ME!



That's a really interesting concept.  If you team up with someone running green and a lot of mana ramp you could wipe out an opponent in a single hit.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 7, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> That's a really interesting concept.  If you team up with someone running green and a lot of mana ramp you could wipe out an opponent in a single hit.



Or multiple people with some mana each.

Or with  you can turn it on someone who pumped it afterwards for much lawls.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 7, 2011)

That's a pretty boss card. I like the Join Forces mechanic, will make for some epic teamwork.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 8, 2011)

Is it just me or do you guys think join forces would have been cool for arch-enemy?


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah that would have been sweet in archenemy.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 9, 2011)

Oh yeah that would have been amazing for Archenemy. 

Which reminds me, i want to play Archenemy badly. Haven't done that in forever. But i will do so when DotP 2012 hits next week. Other than the campaign that's the first thing i'm doing. Anyone else getting DotP 2012?


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 10, 2011)

Contemplating getting it for the promo card


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 11, 2011)

Aww crap. The Bolt replacement has been shown. It is shock, hello new (well old, but you know what I mean) spell that will forever mark the noobs.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 11, 2011)

I just saw that yesterday, none too happy. I don't play Red too often but when i did it was always nice to see a Bolt in hand.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 12, 2011)

Also the New giant growth is

1G

Instant

creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 15, 2011)

So anyone have DotP 2012 yet? I hear it's quite good...


----------



## Draffut (Jun 15, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> So anyone have DotP 2012 yet? I hear it's quite good...



been thinking about getting it.  but I know i'll get bored of it after like 6 games.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 15, 2011)

It's tricky because I think I'd rather put the money into actual cards tbh.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 16, 2011)

I got it. It's a big improvement but still some headaches and problems that plagued the last one still persist. It gets boring a bit but i think with the advanced deck construction they put in it makes things better replay wise. Still can't fuck with the mana base though.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 17, 2011)

Commander decks anyone?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 18, 2011)

Bought and played with Counterpunch. Overall the precons are nice and i'm now an EDH addict


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 21, 2011)

So...

JACE TMS and STONEFORGE MYSTIC are banned.

I feel indifferent.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah I saw that. Interesting about the war of attrition deck.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm curious to try to the Commander decks.  Can anyone who has tried them give me their opinion?


----------



## Draffut (Jun 22, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I'm curious to try to the Commander decks.  Can anyone who has tried them give me their opinion?



They are good for their price, but obviously wont stack up to a real EDH deck.  Devour for Power packs what was about 80$ in singles before their release.  and then 15 new cards beyond that.  Most of the new generals are fun, and a couple cards seam like they might make a showing in legacy like Flusterstorm.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 23, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> So...
> 
> JACE TMS and STONEFORGE MYSTIC are banned.
> 
> I feel indifferent.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jun 23, 2011)

Jace & Stoneforge getting banned in Standard is great. Jace was WAY too underpowered for standard, just because one or two colors can handle it easy, doesn't mean EVERY color can. 

Stoneforge was really good, it getting hit wasn't a crying matter.

Batteringskull should come down in price, my guess between $1 and $5 IF AT ALL. July 15, 2011 for the next Magic since someone was asking. I want to find full spoilers, see if I want to grab a box of 2012. It's just wierd that both 2011 & 2012 will be legal at once, it's even weird they're making core sets yearly now. 

My money for top 3 decks are Mono Red, Vampires & Kuldotha Rebirth.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 23, 2011)

Valakut and RDW will be a top deck for a few months. In the longer run Steel, KR, and Vampire will probably be number 1 post Zendikar.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jun 23, 2011)

Vampires are going to fall hard post Zandikar I believe. I mean, I'll post my vampire Deck and show it off some.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 24, 2011)

That's just painfully good! Quit trolling us wizards!


----------



## Darth (Jun 24, 2011)

Wow....






New Jace is OP.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 24, 2011)

I know right? 

3UU
Starting Loyalty: 4

+1: Draw a card. Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or graveyard.
+0: Target player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
-7: Any number of target players each draw twenty cards.

With proliferate you can throw down some serious milling! getting to 7 will be nothing.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 24, 2011)

How can you be sure that his middle move is 0 cost?


----------



## Draffut (Jun 24, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Valakut and RDW will be a top deck for a few months.



Splinter Twin is going to probobly become big.



> Vampires are going to fall hard post Zandikar I believe. I mean, I'll post my vampire Deck and show it off some.



I am curious how you guys know what Innistrad will support?  It's apposed to be a very Gothic setting so expect vampires to be big there.  Especially with that new one in M12 that gives them all bloodthirst 3.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 24, 2011)

Is there a reason they keep making so many different versions of Jace?  I'm sick of looking at him.  Why not create more variations on the other planeswalkers?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 24, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> I know right?
> 
> 3UU
> Starting Loyalty: 4
> ...


0 - Mill 10? You're fucking kidding me. No fucking way. This can't be right. Has to be a troll.

@ Tsukiyomi...because people love blue and there for love Jace. Wizards, of course, is going to make whatever sells and promotes buying and selling cards.


----------



## Draffut (Jun 25, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Is there a reason they keep making so many different versions of Jace?  I'm sick of looking at him.  Why not create more variations on the other planeswalkers?



Because they feel Jace 1.0 is to weak and 2.0 is way to strong, so they are trying to make a new one in the middle.  it still seams pretty powerful, it's second ability should be a -1 atleast.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 25, 2011)

Well people can sideboard an Eldrazi to counter it for a few months, and I guess with INN they'll make a card and/or effect that makes milling less Viable.

He also probably won't see much/any Legacy play since he costs 5.


----------



## God (Jun 26, 2011)

Can't wait for Photon Shockwave. Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 26, 2011)

Honestly I hope that 0 10 mill is just trolling. I was just relaying the information I had heard.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jun 27, 2011)

It's not the cards fully spoiled it's a a 10 mil every turn.

But then again monoblue mill has never been that great. And even the vastly superior UB mill is lacking to be top tier. But it will be so fun in casual. So glad I kept my Kozilek.


----------



## Mirrow (Jun 27, 2011)

Sometimes I wish they didn't spoil cards and just left it all to that crazy day of release.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jun 27, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Sometimes I wish they didn't spoil cards and just left it all to that crazy day of release.



That would be more fun.  My friends and I like to sometimes grab a bunch of premade decks and just play with them without knowing what's in them.  Its fun to just have to react.

I did that during Kamigawa and it was very interesting.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jun 28, 2011)

Not spoilering cards would create some fun mayhem. Going into events unaware of what to expect? What you're gonna be playing with? Yeah that would make for some good times i think.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 3, 2011)

Are cards from teh  FROM THE VAULT legal? I mean if I got a FTV: Sol Ring or Necropotence is it legal for Vintage?


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes IIRC any printing/version of the card is legal, as long as the card itself is legal.


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 5, 2011)

what do you guys think?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jul 5, 2011)

Garruk's nasty. I like that, ability and flavorwise, he's finally showing his use of beasts for real. His last card was obviously meant to showcase all of green's tricks. This card is all beasts all the time.

Chandra FINALLY gets a good card. Her final leaves a bit to be desired (won't be a game ender half the time) but her plus and minus are excellent.


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 5, 2011)

Yeah chandra's minus is sweet. No mana reverberate? Yes please. 
New Garruk is going to destroy in my casual green land acceleration deck.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 5, 2011)

I like the new Garruk, any word on them ever making a new Sorin?  I've been waiting for that for a while now.


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 5, 2011)

Not sure, I would like a tribal sorin. Something that directly influences vampires. Would be cool.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 6, 2011)

Okay so we know all the mythics.

6 titans
3 New planes walkers (Jace, Chandra, Garruk)
2 Sorin, Gideon
Time Warp
New Dragon Probably wont see play, not even in casual.
Vampire Lord (Gives bloodthirst to all vampires)
and this new mythic aura.


----------



## Draffut (Jul 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Okay so we know all the mythics.
> 
> 6 titans
> 3 New planes walkers (Jace, Chandra, Garruk)
> ...



6 titans?  

Are you counting the hydra as one?


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 6, 2011)

Ohps sorry, I usually count wormcoil as the 6th, and forgot it's not printed in the core. So when it was confirmed all titans would see reprint I was like, so that's 6.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 7, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Yeah chandra's minus is sweet. No mana reverberate? Yes please.
> New Garruk is going to destroy in my casual green land acceleration deck.



It's a no mana FORK you scrub.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Jul 7, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> Vampire Lord (Gives bloodthirst to all vampires)



Forgive my ignorance (I haven't had time to follow the new sets as I have sets in the past) but what new Vampire Lord?


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 7, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> It's a no mana FORK you scrub.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes this is indeed a possible 6/6 flying that just turned your nighthawk into a possible 5/6 flying.

Though the M10 Lord is/was still better


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 8, 2011)

Learn your cards, Reverberate is a reprinted Fork because they don't want to make Fork a $20 instead of $50


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 8, 2011)

I know what Fork is... It's still a no mana reverberate. It is also a no mana fork.
Calm down.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 8, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> I know what Fork is... It's still a no mana reverberate. It is also a no mana fork.
> Calm down.





All jokes aside, here's my Legacy G/U Madness. I think there's more I can do to it and make it better.


----------



## Draffut (Jul 10, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> It's a no mana FORK you scrub.





Sedaiv said:


> Learn your cards, Reverberate is a reprinted Fork because they don't want to make Fork a $20 instead of $50



No it isn't, fork turns the copied spell red you scrub.  Don't be a dick.

Reverberate is a better parallel, even though that still isn't entirely correct.

The new Riku of Two Reflection's first power is probably the best comparison as it only works on your own spells (unlike fork/reverberate) and can only affect spells that are cast, when they are cast.  (while fork/reverberate can be used on any instant/sorcery that are on the stack)

Also, fork is only around $10.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 10, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> No it isn't, fork turns the copied spell red you scrub.  Don't be a dick.
> 
> Reverberate is a better parallel, even though that still isn't entirely correct.
> 
> ...



 Read it and reap, the only thing that remains red is Fork itself. So yeah...



Letting you know: I'm Billy Mayz. Fork/Reverberate will likely go up in price, since Mental Mistep is going to be in like EVERY deck in both Legacy and Vintage, as well as Extended and Standard, Fork/Reverberate can seal the deal for that one drop you desperatly need as it cannot get Mental Mistep itself, Mana Leak yea, but not MM.


----------



## Draffut (Jul 10, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Read it and reap, the only thing that remains red is Fork itself. So yeah...







> Copy target instant or sorcery spell, *except that the copy is red*. You may choose new targets for the copy.



Unless you think I am saying it turns the *original* copy of the spell red, which was not my intention.  It turns the copy it creates red, which Chandra's ability does not do, just like Reverberation.  So you are still wrong.



Sedaiv said:


> Fork/Reverberate will likely go up in price, since Mental Mistep is going to be in like EVERY deck in both Legacy and Vintage, as well as Extended and Standard, Fork/Reverberate can seal the deal for that one drop you desperatly need as it cannot get Mental Mistep itself, Mana Leak yea, but not MM.



Except we already had the legacy GP with Mental Misstep in the format and the price has not really increased on fork at all.  It is not an effective counter to it.  Most people just moved away from storm combo decks like High Tide which are both crippled by MM and can't make use of a RR casting spell.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 10, 2011)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Unless you think I am saying it turns the *original* copy of the spell red, which was not my intention.  It turns the copy it creates red, which Chandra's ability does not do, just like Reverberation.  So you are still wrong.
> 
> Except we already had the legacy GP with Mental Misstep in the format and the price has not really increased on fork at all.  It is not an effective counter to it.  Most people just moved away from storm combo decks like High Tide which are both crippled by MM and can't make use of a RR casting spell.



Funny enough, that's exactly what I said...

Yeah, that would be a simple misunderstanding. I still love you, just not in a sexual way. Fact is, I still called out a blooper, and I'm still awesome.

I don't think Fork is going to get any higher. I think it'll just retain it's value as it always does.


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 11, 2011)

Anyone here go to a pre release?


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 14, 2011)

Naw I missed it, I wanted to grab Jace


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 16, 2011)

I didn't catch a pre release either. Just bought an m12 booster box though.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 18, 2011)

I went to the Star City Gaming Cinncinatti event last weekend. I went 4/6/0. I was playing R/B Vampire, I forgot all about BLOODGHAST. I lost because of that, I Didn't have Lavaclaw land either. But me and the 2nd place winner had almost identicle decks.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 18, 2011)

Bloodghast, love that card.


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 19, 2011)

Friend just got ten boosters and pulled six mythics...


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 21, 2011)

Yeah I once bought four packs and got Phyrexian Obliterator and Sheold or w/e it's called. I traded it PDQ. 

Got a new deck I'm working on, I'll have a decklist up for it sometime.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Jul 27, 2011)

So i saw a bit of info for Innistrad. Werewolves are confirmed to return and will be featured in Green and Red. Zombies will see Blue and Vampires will find their way into Red.

Thoughts?


----------



## Mirrow (Jul 27, 2011)

more blue/black zombies aye? Maybe we will see a blue/black liliana? just a thought. Red vampires will be... interesting.


----------



## noobthemusical (Jul 27, 2011)

We need more Knights, and white creature love in general, I mean yeah it's black set, but that should also mean white cards coming out ready to kill.


----------



## Sedaiv (Jul 28, 2011)

Vampires are pretty much dead at Inodostrad or whatever it's called

For anyone going to the Star City Gaming event in Pittsburgh PA this Saturday, I'll be there.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 1, 2011)

U/W tribal will apparently be Spirits/Ghosts.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 1, 2011)

Innistrad is looking like a really good set, at least as far as flavour is concerned.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 3, 2011)

New Garruk art for Innistrad:





Seems pretty legit.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 4, 2011)

I hope it is real. That is badass.


----------



## noobthemusical (Aug 4, 2011)

I don't know, the art on that deck for Lili was the art for a fake spoiled card. IIRC


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 4, 2011)

The second art was released at GenCon so it's real.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 7, 2011)

What do you guys think of m12 draft?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 11, 2011)

Our FTV:L innistrad spoiler. I dig him.


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 12, 2011)

Eh Elves are my favorite eternal tribe. Vampires are my favorite mythical creature.


----------



## snoph (Aug 13, 2011)

Butō Renjin said:


> Our FTV:L innistrad spoiler. I dig him.



Looks like an EDH general waiting to happen


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 13, 2011)

Him and Ghave are like best friends.


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 14, 2011)

Speaking of EDH: Are there any WUG legendaries that I can use as a general? I got a lot of older nicer cards that are Commander legal, its like part part madness and w/e. I still want to get it better with stuff like Land Tax, Balance, Wrath of God, Day of Judgement, Path to Exhile, Swords to Plowshare, things like that.


----------



## noobthemusical (Aug 14, 2011)

In order of which I would play


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 14, 2011)

I thought about Jenara, she looks like fun. Rafiq doesn't do anything for me personally. But it's probably because I don't have enough to make him outstanding. I'll get both and give them a try. Worst comes to worst, I'll play WUB instead of WUG because of my speach impedament . I really do have one, I gotta slowly enounciate my R and W otherwise I sound like Elmar Fudd. 

Nice thing is I have some old nice black cards like Mide Twist & Demonic Tutor and neither are hit in Commander. I saw the ban list for Commander. 



Which is awesome so I can play Power Nine... if I had power nine...

Still gotta figure out what I want to do. I'll try and post my deck sometime.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 14, 2011)

I've built a couple of EDH decks, my favourite of which being , it was pretty easy to build considering that half of the deck is forests. 
What are your favourite generals?


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 15, 2011)

That's a fun Commander. Not as fun as Rofellos but he's too fun.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 15, 2011)

Rofellos is in the deck, i did consider him for the commander but I liked azusa a little bit more.

Working on a Niv-mizzet deck atm.


----------



## Aurega (Aug 16, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> I thought about Jenara, she looks like fun. Rafiq doesn't do anything for me personally. But it's probably because I don't have enough to make him outstanding. I'll get both and give them a try. Worst comes to worst, I'll play WUB instead of WUG because of my speach impedament . I really do have one, I gotta slowly enounciate my R and W otherwise I sound like Elmar Fudd.
> 
> Nice thing is I have some old nice black cards like Mide Twist & Demonic Tutor and neither are hit in Commander. I saw the ban list for Commander.
> 
> ...



What kind of deck are you building? I'm playing a Bant (WUG) control deck and still use rafiq, with sovereigns of the lost alara and eldari conscription it's an instant one-hit kill (14/14 trample general with double strike is painful, since you die by 20 general damage). With all the bant tutors, it is really easy to assemble this combo. Add to it that I'm playing a lot of counterspells and white removal coupled with green ramp and it's a pretty strong deck, both in against a single opponent and in multiplayer.


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 19, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Rofellos is in the deck, i did consider him for the commander but I liked azusa a little bit more.
> 
> Working on a Niv-mizzet deck atm.



Good thing too because you cannot use Rofellos or Braids as Commanders (WAY too strong)

Eldrazi Conscription is a tribal enchant. I'm not sure about the Tribal Spells Rules but I'm thinking only Eldrazi can equip that.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 19, 2011)

So we got decklists for Ajani v. Bolas. Kinda underwhelming.


----------



## Eevihl (Aug 23, 2011)

MTG thread?
This pleases me : 3
FNM promo this month also pleases me.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 24, 2011)

Butō Rengoob said:


> So we got decklists for Ajani v. Bolas. Kinda underwhelming.



The main thing I want it for is the new artwork on Bolas and only because I don't currently have a copy of his planeswalker form.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 24, 2011)

^ My sentiment exactly, me and a friend are going halfsies on it and i'm doing it for the Bolas card.

And speaking of Duel decks, our next one was announced as well:


----------



## noobthemusical (Aug 24, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Good thing too because you cannot use Rofellos or Braids as Commanders (WAY too strong)
> 
> Eldrazi Conscription is a tribal enchant. I'm not sure about the Tribal Spells Rules but I'm thinking only Eldrazi can equip that.



No any type of creature can equip it. It just means that cards that require an Eldrazi be in play, or be targeted will work if the Eldrazi is in play.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 24, 2011)

The only difference between a tribal spell and a regular spell is the tribal spell also counts as casting a card of that tribe type.  So Eldrazi Conscription is exactly the same as any other enchantment except it counts as casting an Eldrazi and as long as its on the field it counts as having an Eldrazi on the field so cards like Coat of Arms would still give a boost to other Eldrazi because of it.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 26, 2011)

Kemba kha regent edh ftw, die by a swarm of cats.


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 27, 2011)

Kemba is fun, but I still like Jenara Madness. I need to post my deck list sometime soon.


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 28, 2011)

ATTENTION DUELISTS! MY HAIR AND I GOT AN ANNOUNCEMENT!

I will be at GP Pittsburgh today playing in EDH. I will be trading and selling. I will also be bringing my Timetwister to gloat and show off.


----------



## noobthemusical (Aug 28, 2011)

*GENTLEMEN! I GIVE YOU *


----------



## Sedaiv (Aug 28, 2011)

Flashback will be fun along with Morphing 2.0


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 28, 2011)

Saw the news earlier this morning, and i don't know how i feel about the transform conditions or the fighting mechanic. They both feel meh.


----------



## noobthemusical (Aug 28, 2011)

Yeah but then they can make a mythic that is 1/5 death touch can fight any creature, has hexproof and can untap itself. To be fair it will cost 2.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Aug 28, 2011)

Fighting costs had better be high or that shit's gonna get old quick. Also don't know if anyone else noticed but we basically know Garruk and his cmc. It was on the transformation checklist, it was Garruk Relentless, 3 random 1 green. Confirms Garruk's a Werewolf imo.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Aug 29, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Kemba kha regent edh ftw, die by a swarm of cats.





Sedaiv said:


> Kemba is fun, but I still like Jenara Madness. I need to post my deck list sometime soon.



I've been working on an EDH Kemba deck, Stonehewer Giant and Stoneforge Mystic make the deck feel a little broken at times.


----------



## Mirrow (Aug 29, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I've been working on an EDH Kemba deck, Stonehewer Giant and Stoneforge Mystic make the deck feel a little broken at times.



Yeah I run both of them, they are crazy. Another nice addition is puresteel paladin, being able to move all your equip to creatures you want to attack with then back to kemba in main 2 to still get cat tokens is nice.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 1, 2011)

I love this guy.

I could only love him more if he was a knight, I've been waiting forever for a FSV Knight. Or another 1 drop knight.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 1, 2011)

I love that card,
It has amazing flavour and it is a pretty powerful 2 drop. Reminds me of a mini baneslayer angel. 
What do you guys think of the new liliana?


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 1, 2011)

I would bone Liliana until I threw up if she were real.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 1, 2011)

I like the new Lili but for a flavorful set, shouldn't wearing the Veil make her stronger? Seems like she got weaker to me.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 1, 2011)

What are everyones thoughts on the double-sided cards?

I would rather they go back to the flip cards they had during Kamigawa.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 1, 2011)

I think they will be awkward as hell. They seem kinda like a gimmick to me. I didn't think that was what MTG was about 

But oh well, everything else about innistrad has looked good to me


----------



## Aurega (Sep 1, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> What are everyones thoughts on the double-sided cards?
> 
> I would rather they go back to the flip cards they had during Kamigawa.



Quoting Rich Shay (one of the brightest minds who play magic): The double-sided cards are a terrible idea, probably one of the worst in the history of Magic.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 2, 2011)

I like it


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 2, 2011)

He seems cool 

Still don't really like flip cards though


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 2, 2011)

Flip vertically is as gay as flipping over the card itself.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 2, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Flip vertically is as gay as flipping over the card itself.



I disagree.  I actually enjoy the idea of a card being able to change mid-play because it adds options and strategies.  Having a double sided card actually changes the way you have to manage and use your cards for the first time in the history of the game.

Flipping vertically I don't see that different from things like metal craft which kick in under certain circumstances.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 2, 2011)

I can see the issue some have with flip cards but like Tsukiyomi said it allows for a varying strategy and gives you awesome options. I think people that are wary of the mechanic at first will play with it some and find it's not a big deal and still blends well.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 2, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I disagree.  I actually enjoy the idea of a card being able to change mid-play because it adds options and strategies.  Having a double sided card actually changes the way you have to manage and use your cards for the first time in the history of the game.
> 
> Flipping vertically I don't see that different from things like metal craft which kick in under certain circumstances.



The problem with the flip vertically is that they limit art and rules text and flavor text (hell did any Kamigawa flip have any flavor text?).

Also go zombies.



Still with every human/white card revealed it seems to me the undead are gonna get their asses kicked.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 3, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I disagree.  I actually enjoy the idea of a card being able to change mid-play because it adds options and strategies.  Having a double sided card actually changes the way you have to manage and use your cards for the first time in the history of the game.
> 
> Flipping vertically I don't see that different from things like metal craft which kick in under certain circumstances.



Thing is, that's triggered. By what you said, then all mechanics don't work including Fear, Trample, (T), (UT), Vigilence, etc.

I just find flipping cards gay as Christopher Lowell


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 5, 2011)

Zombies. Zombies. Zombies.

​
Card looks fun to play with.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 5, 2011)

That's a card I'd base a deck around. B/G Mana Ramp FTW


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 5, 2011)

Dropping warstorm surge and then playing Army of the damned would be funny.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 5, 2011)

Indeed that would


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 5, 2011)

"Sometimes death comes knocking.
Sometimes it tears down the walls."

Loving all this flavor


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 5, 2011)

Butō Rengoob said:


> "Sometimes death comes knocking.
> Sometimes it tears down the walls."
> 
> Loving all this flavor



Innistrad flavour is epic


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 6, 2011)

Nice.

In other news, MaRo said that our Legendary Mythic Werewolf has been pushed back to later in the block just because Garruk is also a double-faced mythic. This makes me UNBELIEVABLY angry.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 6, 2011)

Eh, I can wait for a mythic werewolf. There's more than enough awesome in Innistrad as is.

I love this card...


It looks so fun to play.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 6, 2011)

noobthemusical said:


> The problem with the flip vertically is  that they limit art and rules text and flavor text (hell did any  Kamigawa flip have any flavor text?).



I don't really care about limited flavor text at all.  Rules text has been getting more and more slim as they introduce more keywords like "dies" so that's not an issue either.

The artwork on some of the Kamigawa flip cards was actually done pretty nicely with the space available.  I like the idea of the artwork for one form blending into the artwork for another.



Sedaiv said:


> Thing is, that's triggered. By what you said, then all mechanics don't work including Fear, Trample, (T), (UT), Vigilence, etc.
> 
> I just find flipping cards gay as Christopher Lowell



What are you talking about?  I said I LIKE cards that can change abilities mid play, how exactly is that saying that mechanics like vigilance and fear don't work?

What I don't like is a change to the layout of the card that changes the way you have to handle the card itself.  Now that SOME cards have different backs you have to change how you handle the entire deck.  I don't like that.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 6, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Eh, I can wait for a mythic werewolf. There's more than enough awesome in Innistrad as is.
> 
> I love this card...
> 
> ...


But i want my damn Werewolf 

I like Essence...in a token deck. But any deck that doesn't produce a lot of tokens isn't gonna like him as much.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 6, 2011)

You have to wait. 

Essence of the wild is going straight into my rhys the redeemed edh deck.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 6, 2011)

I don't understand why they couldn't just make the mythic werewolf a single sided card. It's not hard to believe someone embracing the curse and/or finding a way to remain in wolf form permanently. That's how i imagined our big bad wolf to be anyway, not some chump that struggles with his wilder side 

All i know is, Innistrad is doing nothing but giving Ghave ammunition :ho this plus Ghave = rape.


----------



## Eevihl (Sep 7, 2011)

Anyone else like the new rating system?


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 8, 2011)

Essence of the Wild + Army of the Damned = GAME OVER

I'm totally making a Mana Ramp deck dedicated to those two.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 8, 2011)

Let the suicide milling begin


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 8, 2011)

I LOVE that card, and people thought Mirror-mad Phantasm was bad


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 8, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Let the suicide milling begin



Ooooo now that opens a lot of interesting possibilities.


----------



## Eevihl (Sep 9, 2011)

Mirror Mad is pretty damn amazing,


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 9, 2011)

Mirror-Mad plus Maniac = good times. My only beef with it? Shouldn't be mythic.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 9, 2011)

Combo time. This card is DEFINATELY taking Squadron Hawks place.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 9, 2011)

Mirrow said:


> Let the suicide milling begin



This card could probably even see play in legacy, even if only sideboard against Hightide/LegacyMill.

Also the Mythic werewolf will be delayed until Dark Ascension.


Also let me introduce the latest and probably last card based on a design from an invitational winner.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 9, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Combo time. This card is DEFINATELY taking Squadron Hawks place.



Training grounds?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 9, 2011)

I love the mill support so far, as i've always been a huge advocate of mill, this makes me happy


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 10, 2011)

Mill decks are awesome. I wish they would have reprinted Millstone however. That way it's a TRUE mill deck.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm thinking that innistrad drafts are going to be good. Sure the flip cards are kinda awkward in them but the potential decks are all pretty cool so far.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 10, 2011)

< Plays on Mtgo
< Doesn't need to worry about hiding double faced cards during drafts


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 11, 2011)

Money says "You cannot use Flip Cards without sleeves." I'll bet anything on that.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 11, 2011)

You use this thingy.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 11, 2011)

I know, isn't that totally metal Mirrow?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 12, 2011)

Innistrad Fat Pack art and some extra goodies we're getting in it.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 14, 2011)

Pretty damn good, if he could fly he would be broken beyond belief. I could see him going into Cawblade Standard or Legacy.


----------



## Naruto (Sep 14, 2011)

I haven't played MTG in years (can't afford the money sink anymore), but I figured you might want to know this:

 is on sale this week. Purchasing this game nets you a free IRL deck (have to claim it at one of the stores that adhered to said promo) and a promotional card.

Considering the game costs $5 at the moment, I would say it's well worth it for the real cards alone.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 14, 2011)

I love midweek madness  
DotP is okay if you don't mind using pre set decks, I prefer to play Magic Online (if I have the money) or use a program like Cockatrice or MWS.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 15, 2011)

Geist of Saint Traft is such a badass card, someone is gonna break the hell out of it.

Major Edit!:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6eUQ5DTqtU&feature=channel_video_title[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 17, 2011)

That trailer is epic 

And now I am seriously hyped. Stupid trailers getting me all excited.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 17, 2011)

I love these trailers Wizards does for MtG. Almost makes me wish they'd make a miniseries from the animation style or something, how boss would that be?


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 17, 2011)

MTG Anime 

It would be cool.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 19, 2011)

Me gusta. Me gusta very much :ho


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 19, 2011)

innistrad looks so good 

WG human is the deck for me.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 19, 2011)

The full spoilers rock ass. I love the new blue counters, but I gotta wait on the G/U basictap land =/. Still, my elves should be a little more consistent with some stuff going out, and others going in.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 19, 2011)

I am going to play as much sealed as humanly possible. Can't wait.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 20, 2011)

AND SO THE WIZARDS HAVE SPOKEN AND IT CAME TO PASS THAT MENTAL MISSTEP WAS BANNED IN LEGACY.

Also Modern continues to be the new extended even in terms of how terrible it is.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 20, 2011)

Mental misstep gone aye? Interesting.

Anyone going to an innistrad prerelease?


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 21, 2011)

Mental Misstep just keeps finding it's way onto ban lists, who knew one card with a limited effect could be so devestating?

Now to me Modern seems more like baby Legacy, not extended. But i like the format, it's just in desperate need of reprints of the cards that are used the most so prices aren't JTMS levels.


----------



## noobthemusical (Sep 21, 2011)

Yeah the weird thing is MM did one thing that all players can agree on. It made the game last longer. Wizards said they wanted Modern to be Slow legacy.

Now one could argue that with less 1drops of high power it's either stronger, because the countered spell counts for more, or weaker because we built slower decks with less reliance on non reprinted 1 drops. I'm for the later idea.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 22, 2011)

Mental Mistep is SO AWESOME. It's going to stay a staple in Vintage. It shouldn't have gotten the axe in Legacy, I can understand Extended, I guess, but Modern more so. Not a ton of awesome stuff, still I don't think it should have gotten the axe.

The reason a lot of the stuff from 8th+ wont' get reprinted, why would they? Magic is based on a story line, the crew of the Weatherlight have left those worlds, some stuff shouldn't get reprinted as it was too good like SEnseis Diving Top or Umezawas Jitte or Gifts Ungiven.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 23, 2011)

Sticking with the Modern discussion, we have some updated bans:



Effective october first, Ponder, Preordain, Rite of Flame, Green Sun's Zenith, Blazing Shoal and Cloudpost are all getting the axe.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 23, 2011)

Sucks Green Sun Zenith is going. I'm still keeping it after it rotates out of Standard. 

Ponder and Preordain: about time. Those are too good for blue to keep. 

Rite of Flames: eh I still think it sucks, yeah I know Red is strong having Seething Song legal but it's not as messed up as ROF even one in the discard. 

Blazing Shoal is TOO good for a pitch & burn card.

Cloudpost: I remember when noone used thsi card, it sucked in Mirrodin block and it still sucks now. I guess it did have a really good use in Modern as the Artifact lands are banned.

I'm not exactly sure what I'll play for modern. I could do Elves since the best elves are STILL legal. Hell I still got Elvish Champion to help me. Sure I don't got Hypergenesis or Green Sun Zenith, but I can work around it.


----------



## Gooba (Sep 24, 2011)

Just got home from the prerelease.  I went 4-0 largely because I pulled Garruk.  I also pulled a Snapcaster but didn't go blue.  Elite Inquisitor was a house, especially with Butcher's Cleaver.  That thing was amazing on the green werewolves and pretty much anything.  I won 12 packs and got another Snapcaster, Skaad Ruinator, and Past in Flames.  All in all, a great and lucky night.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 24, 2011)

Not half bad, I cannot go to my local prerelease because of stupid work.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 24, 2011)

I don't know if my local store is doing any events later on tonight but if they are i'm so going. Unfortunately work keeps me from going sooner.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm off to a pre release tomorrow, pretty excited about it tbh. 
Also just got FTV: legends, which out of the cards in it do you think is the best commander?


----------



## Kayvaan Shrike (Sep 24, 2011)

Last night's pre-release started at 6
Last night's calculus exam started at 6.

/sigh


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 25, 2011)

Got back from my pre release, went 6-0 and finished first, played BR aggro. Pretty good day all in all.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 25, 2011)

Did a draft last night, got some nice cards, deck didn't draw right, got eliminated in the first round 

Overall it was pretty fun none the less.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 26, 2011)

Unlucky man. 
Pulled a , could be pretty interesting tech with captain sisay edh.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Sep 26, 2011)

Love the Grimoire, best card i got was Tree of Redemption which actually got passed to me. I don't know who cracked it but they must have been adverse to playing green (and anyone else it got passed to) which was dumb. That card fucking rules especially with equipment and aura enchantments 

Only card that kept me playing as long as i did.


----------



## Sedaiv (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm getting four boxes by October 3rd or 4th. I'm not worried about what I get.


----------



## Mirrow (Sep 26, 2011)

4? 

I'll get 1 as usual I think.


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 1, 2011)

I got one box since a friend backed out of a crate. Got it yesterday, got (from what I remember)

1x W/R Tap Land
2x W/B Tap Land
1x G/U Tap Land (Want 3 more)
1x R/U Tap Land
1x Blue Mythic
1x White Indestructible & Hexproof with a human mythic
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Ghost Quartesr (Foil)
1x Garruk
1x Lilliana
1x Esscence of the Wild

I then played draft, I thought I'd do go with U/W but I screwed up and only had 7 creatures. I was hoping there'd be atlest 3 or 4 counters, I packed the ONLY counter with Dissipate. Stalled the games, but couldn't do well. Had a Geist in my first pack, that's why I did U/W.


----------



## Eevihl (Oct 2, 2011)

Opened the worst box ever. Only got Garruk.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 2, 2011)

^ I opened a box and didn't get Garruk, Liliana or snapcaster :/


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 2, 2011)

I wouldn't mind one more Garruk honestly. My elves make him easily. I'm trying ot get another Dissipate, the 2U counter that discards a card, 3 G/U Tap Lands and two more Shimmering Grotto. I SHOULD be good then.


----------



## noobthemusical (Oct 8, 2011)

Open a box with friends.

Get 1 each rare dual, and all mythics sans planeswalkers and Saint.

Still no SnapCaster or PW


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 8, 2011)

Everyone got better boxes than me. 

Coolest thing I got was a foil tree of redemption, which I think is extremely underrated at the moment.


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 15, 2011)

Open 3 boxes to myself, got all but 14 cards. 3 I know I need are Army of the Dead, Plains 1, and Forest 3. Got few repeats. only one Snapcaster Mage. Might finish the set now. 2 Garruks & 2 Lilianas is nice. I know my Dimir Psychatog deck in vintage will own now.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm genuinely annoyed that you don't get much land from innistrad boosters, the art is so epic on them.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Oct 15, 2011)

I want full body art lands back before i'd call any land art awesome 

Well except for Ravnica lands


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 15, 2011)

They should reprint the unhinged style full art land, they are the best


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 16, 2011)

Butō Rengoob said:


> I want full body art lands back before i'd call any land art awesome
> 
> Well except for Ravnica lands



Mirrodin lands were better IMO. I'm not talking about the stupid Shards of Mirrodin either.



Doctor said:


> They should reprint the unhinged style full art land, they are the best



Just buy them. They're on ebay. Personally I love the Mirrodin & Zendikar lands, specially the extended art. Then again, I'm actually paying $2 per Beta Basic land.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 16, 2011)

I know you can buy them, I just can't justify spending that much money on basic lands, no matter how cool they would make my decks look.


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't blame you. I'm not spending $10 per foil Zendikar extended art land.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 20, 2011)

State of standard at the moment, leaning towards mono red. Mainly because I have the cards I need for it and I can't fork out cash for solar flare.


----------



## n00bzorz (Oct 23, 2011)

if you want, try checking the site in my sig, i got a bunch of sets for my decks using it and its all through amazon. last set i got was Amrou Kithkin(1/1 for 2 white mana "No creature with power greater than 2 may be assigned to block Kithkin." fits QUITE nicley ) for my Aggro Kithkin deck


----------



## noobthemusical (Oct 23, 2011)

Actually you should read the errata on that, since it was the first Kithkin it's card text generically says Kithkin, but that got changed.

It now reads


> Amrou Kithkin can't be blocked by creatures with power 3 or greater.


(yes the 2 was also deemed broken and is now 3)
The master editions fix the actual card




So in fact it is not that great, competitively speaking at least, but acceptable for casual.


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 23, 2011)

My GW deck sucks, I need a lot of improvements but I'll probably make it GW tokens control instead of GW control/ramp.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah the token deck is pretty good, fun too.


----------



## noobthemusical (Oct 24, 2011)

Yeah GW tokens decks are look top tier at the moment.


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 24, 2011)

I just want to use Fiend Hunter & Elite Justicar so bad, because they're so fun.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 24, 2011)

I wonder how well a WW deck would run in standard at the moment


----------



## Sedaiv (Oct 24, 2011)

Hey doc, whose in yoru sig? I feel like I've seen that chick somewhere before. Not sure, I think White Weenie could be VERY fun.


----------



## Mirrow (Oct 24, 2011)

It's Yoko from Gurren Lagann 
I might mess around with building WW on cockatrice for a bit.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 2, 2011)

Man, why is this thread dead? 
MTG is still good people.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 2, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Man, why is this thread dead?
> MTG is still good people.



We need something to keep it going.  I recommend we start seeing up some online games with Cockatrice or something.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 2, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> We need something to keep it going.  I recommend we start seeing up some online games with Cockatrice or something.



That would be pretty cool, I can't today but if anyone is down I am happy to play EDH.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 2, 2011)

Doctor said:


> That would be pretty cool, I can't today but if anyone is down I am happy to play EDH.



Out of curiosity who do you use as your general?


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 2, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Out of curiosity who do you use as your general?



I use loads of different EDH decks, the ones I use the most are Seizan and Rafiq. What about you?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 2, 2011)

Doctor said:


> I use loads of different EDH decks, the ones I use the most are Seizan and Rafiq. What about you?



My most common ones are Kemba, Zur and Anowon (when I'm playing vampires).

I have some decks sketched out on paper using Reaper King and an eldrazi deck with Animar as general.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah I played Kemba for a bit, worked out pretty nicely. Swords with that creature that tutors for equipment was pretty insane.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 2, 2011)

Yeah, depending what you get onto Kemba that deck can get rolling at an insane rate.  I had a game where I got Darksteel Plate, Lightning Greeves, Sword of Body and Mind and Konda's banner equipped and at that point its an untouchable, indestcutible creature generating 4 cat tokens and a wolf token and pumping them up and milling your opponents deck.

Animar has a lot of potential in decks heavy with colorless creatures like Eldrazi, especially since his colors still allow for green mana accelerators and creatures like Rapacious One.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 2, 2011)

Fastest games of EDH that I win are from blighted agent in my Rafiq exalted deck. It is just silly if it all goes to plan.


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Nov 3, 2011)

If anyone has Mtgo i'd be down for some games.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 3, 2011)

I don't have Mtgo because I don't have the money, I play on cockatrice if anyone is down.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 5, 2011)

Sorry don't got MTGO. I'm just bummed the reason I got into the game, after reading what other fanatics said, is definately never comming back and why would let alone HOW would they revive Urza and NOT kill Karn since apperently he's popular.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 7, 2011)

Cockatrice is free for anyone who doesn't want to spend the money on MTGO.



If we all started using this we could get some games going.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 7, 2011)

And it has a sweet sweet tap animation


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 7, 2011)

So if we were to start setting up games who would be down to play?

I'd like to organize some Commander games if possible.


----------



## n00bzorz (Nov 9, 2011)

Well id be down if you could tech me how to do a commander game. I'm afraid all I've ever played were normal games with house rules. Never did any tournaments or anything.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 9, 2011)

n00bzorz said:


> Well id be down if you could tech me how to do a commander game. I'm afraid all I've ever played were normal games with house rules. Never did any tournaments or anything.



Sure I'd be happy to.  If you know how to play normal magic its very easy to learn because most of the rules are exactly the same with just a few differences.

Here are the basic points.

The first thing you do is pick a legendary creature to serve as your commander.  This is the most important decision about your deck.  The commander sets the strategy for your entire deck.  You deck can only contain cards that are the colors of your commander or colorless.  For example a deck with Nicol Bolas as the commander:  can only contain red, blue and black cards and cards that generate red, blue and black mana.

The commander usually sets the theme for your strategy as well though in some cases you might pick them solely because of their colors.  The commander is usually a focus of the deck but it should be able to function without them.

Your deck must be exactly 100 cards, no more no less.  With the exception of basic lands you can't have any more than one of any individual card.

When the game starts all player start with 40 life instead of 20. 

Your commander sits in a special zone off to the side of the game called the command zone.  You can summon them at any time that you can pay for them.  Whenever your general would be killed or exiled you can have them return to the command zone instead.  Every time you summon your commander after the first time costs 2 colorless more to summon.   For example Nicol Bolas usually costs {2}UUBBRR to summon, if its the second time you summoned him from the command zone it would cost  {4}UUBBRR, if its the 3rd it would cost  {6}UUBBRR and so on.

I believe those are the only differences.  If anyone sees anything I missed please let add on.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 9, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Sure I'd be happy to.  If you know how to play normal magic its very easy to learn because most of the rules are exactly the same with just a few differences.
> 
> Here are the basic points.
> 
> ...



Seems like a good explanation to me, 
Now I will say that I am down to play magic but the reality is I am getting Skyrim tomorrow night so I wont be on much at all.


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## Sedaiv (Nov 10, 2011)

Banned list For Commander

Ancestral Recall 
Balance 
Biorhythm 
Black Lotus 
Coalition Victory 
Channel 
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 
Fastbond 
Gifts Ungiven 
Kokusho, the Evening Star 
Karakas 
Library of Alexandria 
Limited Resources 
Metalworker 
Mox Sapphire, Ruby, Pearl, Emerald and Jet 
Painter's Servant 
Panoptic Mirror 
Protean Hulk 
Recurring Nightmare 
Staff of Domination 
Sway of the Stars 
Time Vault 
Time Walk 
Tinker 
Tolarian Academy 
Upheaval 
Yawgmoth's Bargain 

Cards that are legal for deck construction but NOT Commanders

Braids, Cabal Minion 

Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary 

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 10, 2011)

Hmm, I thought Kokusho was just banned as a commander.  Guess I was wrong.

Any other Commander details we've left out?


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 12, 2011)

Kokusho would just be TOO powerful to drain 5 life per person and give you 15.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 14, 2011)

As a commander I agree since he'd be readily accessible and reusable but as a single card that you may or may not draw during the game I'm not so sure.  Especially since he could be stolen, countered, tucked or exiled and then his ability wouldn't trigger.

Since the activity in this thread is pretty sparse how about we set up a bunch of games or maybe a tournament for a few weeks from now?  Would anyone be interested in participating in that?


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 17, 2011)

Only if it's in Pittsburgh.

Kokusho is just too broken of a card for Commander. Don't forget you still got Entomb, Animate Dead, Unbured Rights, Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Death Wish, Living Wish, Vampiric Tutor, and a slew of other cards to get him out quickly and easily.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 17, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Only if it's in Pittsburgh.



I was talking about online games since Cockatrice is free.



Sedaiv said:


> Kokusho is just too broken of a card for Commander. Don't forget you still got Entomb, Animate Dead, Unbured Rights, Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Death Wish, Living Wish, Vampiric Tutor, and a slew of other cards to get him out quickly and easily.



And there are plenty of cards to counter all of those or steal control of Kokusho.

Take Bribery for  example, I don't even need to know Kokusho is in the deck I could play that, stumble onto him and now its on the field under my control.

Then there are cards like Everlasting Torment or Leyline of Punishment that completely counter his life gain ability.

Not to mention all the cards that could exile or tuck him.  His ability never triggers if he is exiled or tucked.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 18, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> I was talking about online games since Cockatrice is free.
> 
> And there are plenty of cards to counter all of those or steal control of Kokusho.
> 
> ...



Thing is, you gotta be playing white or blue then. Don't forget: YOU COMMANDER DECIDES YOUR COLORS. If a guys playing Thrun, Green Elemental Blast is his ONLY counter to Kokusho. If I'm playing Tuk Tuk, I got NOTHING to deal with Kokushos life gain. Besides, the guys who developed Commander have done extensive playing and testing and decided that Kokusho is too strong. It's like allowing Artifact lsnds in Modern or reprinting Counterspell for Standard or making 4 Power Nine sets legal for Vintage or unbanning Survival of the Fittest/Oath of Druids for Legacy. They're just too good to allow in that format. Why not allow Rofellos or Erayo as your commander then?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 18, 2011)

The vast majority of Commander decks I've played and gone up against tend to run more than one color.  I don't know if your experience has been different, but multicolor decks tend to have a variety of options at their disposal.

You're also thinking very very narrow if you think the only colors that can counter Kokusho are blue and white.  Off the top of my head Memoricide could easily cripple a deck dependent on Kokusho.  

Every color has cards that can exile creatures and thus nullify Kokusho.

Here are the first ones that come up when I search.

Green: 
Black: 
Red: 
White: 
Blue: 

Hell there are plenty of colorless cards that can do it too: 

Also given that this is largely a multiplayer format do you not think the instant it becomes known that their entire strategy revolves around abusing that one card that that player would face the full force of the entire board?

Part of the reason I like the commander format is you can't go in completely aggressive or you become a target, you have to be subtle about your tactics.

Also just because something is on the banned list doesn't mean the decision is sensible.  Some cards like Crucible of Worlds WERE banned in the format but are no longer.

Like I said there are enough ways to counter Kokusho that I don't think he really _needs_ to be banned entirely from the format.  I can understand forbidding him as a commander but thats about it.

Something like Emrakul I can totally understand banning from the format.  15 mana is soooo easy to ramp up to in this format and the fact that he is colorless and thus can fit into any deck is nuts.  That's not even to mention the extra turn you get when you cast him, the fact that he is uncounterable, is a 15/15 with flying, or that your opponent has to sacrifice 6 permanents every time he attacks or that he has protection from ALL colored spells (so many of the counters I'm recommending for Kokusho would be useless) or that if he goes into your graveyard your entire graveyard goes back to your library.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm fully aware that 95% of Commander decks use more than one color. I'm just saying using those as examples.

I know Memoricide/Extripate/Cranial Extraction all cripple Kokusho. 

Once Kokusho hits the graveyard, his effect activates. You have to Exile it STRAIGHT from play. Even if you remove him as he goes in, if memory serves right, his effect kicks off then your card effect kicks off. 

Crucible of Words CAN be a vicious card, but with Fastbond band, it's not that vicious. There are some cards I scratch my head as to why they're banned, but ultimately I just ask around and I get what I need. Like Land Tax, thats banned in Legacy, it's not that great since most people don't use basic lands in legacy.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 21, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Once Kokusho hits the graveyard, his effect activates. You have to Exile it STRAIGHT from play. Even if you remove him as he goes in, if memory serves right, his effect kicks off then your card effect kicks off.



You have to exile it straight from play for his ability to NEVER activate.  I don't really see it activating once to put it in the graveyard as making the game lopsided.  Especially since in doing so you're going to piss off the entire board and have everyone gunning for you.

Remember in multiplayer games you want to be subtle, you don't want to advertise yourself as a threat until its too late to do anything about it and Kokusho is definitely a major advertisement as a threat.

Even if you were to pull it off and drain 4 opponents.  You gain 20 life.  Big woop.  In this format losing 5 life is hardly the end of the world, and doing 20+ points of damage with the help of every other player is childs play.  In Commander its much easier to drop huge creatures.

That's not even to mention if someone is running an infect deck, in which case the life you gain is meaningless.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 23, 2011)

I love making rouge commander decks because no one sees you as a threat because you have some dumb commander, then BAM  epic combo ensues...


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 23, 2011)

Doctor said:


> I love making rouge commander decks because no one sees you as a threat because you have some dumb commander, then BAM  epic combo ensues...



Indeed, subtlety is the name of the game in multiplayer.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 24, 2011)

Hence why I use Jenara and not Rafiq. If I played Rafiq, I'm a target. I have the oddest deck possible. Its definately unique. I'll post it later, because I'm getting  computer today


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 24, 2011)

Of course I still have my stupidly OP 1v1 decks. They are always fun.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 25, 2011)

Got the Graveborn deck & my computer. Took me 8 fucking hours to get it, but worth it. I love this deck. I think I'll make a reanimator deck for Legacy


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 26, 2011)

8 hours?


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 26, 2011)

The computer took me 8 hours, the graveborn deck took me seven minutes, including the 6.5 minutes to think about getting it. I bought it for Entomb


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 26, 2011)

Worth it IMO.


----------



## Sedaiv (Nov 26, 2011)

Of course.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 28, 2011)

So to repeat my question if we started setting up online matches/tournaments using Cockatrice how many people here would be interested?

If so I can start organizing dates now a few weeks from now so everyone has time to prepare.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 28, 2011)

Yep I am in.


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 30, 2011)

Just won a game of EDH using Laboratory maniac


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## Tsukiyomi (Nov 30, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Just won a game of EDH using Laboratory maniac



How did you pull that one off?


----------



## Mirrow (Nov 30, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> How did you pull that one off?



Edric as general, slowly drawing away my library through attacking and then pre combat main when I knew I could mill myself to death I slammed maniac with 4 counterspells in hand, gave him shroud and then swung for victory.

two and a half hour game in the end, it was IRL so things went slowly because of banter.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Nov 30, 2011)

I was going to say milling in EDH would take forever.

Edric as a general though would make it easy to maintain card advantage.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 1, 2011)

Hope you also used Erayo. That dude helps out a lot. I was thinking about a Rule of Law/Enhancement White/Blue deck for EDH as a second EDH deck. I'm going to change my Jenara Control to Jenara Ramp.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 3, 2011)

I want to buy so many edh decks.
Not... enough... money!


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## Sedaiv (Dec 3, 2011)

Actually EDH can be really cheap VS Legacy or V intage decks. You're only allowed one non-basic land of any card in your deck. The Power 9 are banned save Timetwiester.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 3, 2011)

That doesn't change the fact that I don't have enough money though.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 4, 2011)

Oh tehn get a job and/or steal.


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## Mirrow (Dec 5, 2011)

Nah, I am saving is all. I just have to not spend money on Magic for a while. Something I haven't done in years.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 5, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Nah, I am saving is all. I just have to not spend money on Magic for a while. Something I haven't done in years.



Ah gotcha. Still, EDH is alot cheaper than Vintage or Legacy. Like so far I"ve spent maybe $60 on my EDH deck. Unless you want include Timetwister which si mroe for my Vintage deck, not my EDH but its in there nonetheless.

EDIT: Anyone going to the Star City Gaming event January 22 & 23? I'l lbe attending.


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## Mirrow (Dec 6, 2011)

Yeah EDH is a cheaper format. I started playing Pauper now, even cheaper


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 6, 2011)

If money is a big factor you could always play on Cockatrice for free, then when you have a deck that flows exactly how you want it you can save up the money to get those cards.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 8, 2011)

Me and my buddy JT went around "buying" Commander decks yesterday. Mirror Maters and the RWB both have Brainstrom and noticed that Devour the Power has Solemn Sim... WHY DON'T PEOPLE GET THOSE COMMANDERS DECKS FOR THOSE CARDS!? 

I'm going to be trading him for a SS for my Commander & BS for my Psychatog Vintage. Plus the over all build. Nim is a ctually A VICIOUS commander. We're going to ry Nim as Counter/Burn first then try Nicol Bolas (Legends) and run a few reanimiator & tutor cards and see what works best.


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## noobthemusical (Dec 9, 2011)

I think people did, Commander sold out during the first printing, which is sadly the only printing in my country.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 9, 2011)

That sucks. I'm not sure if they're still in print or if the ones I've found are left overs.


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm sure they'll print more.  The 5 decks were mainly intended to introduce people to the new format and its proving pretty popular.  I'm sure they'll release more as time goes on.  I want to see more color combinations, like UBR.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm happy if they do something like

WUG
WUB

becuase I got a speech impedament that about half the time, my Rs & Ws sound alike, so yeah.. .I kinda sound like Elmar Fudd.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 9, 2011)

Yeah I want a UBR deck, obviously thraximundar is insane but I want more options


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## Sedaiv (Dec 10, 2011)

they give yoru four different generals i na structure right off the bat.


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## Mirrow (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah I know I got the heavenly inferno one. Pretty sweet.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 10, 2011)

My bad. I'm still working on a R/B Counter Burn commander deck. I got an idea using Palincron, Phantasmal Image & Grapeshot.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 10, 2011)

no problem man. Sounds evil 

I am working on Kaalia of the vast and I can't figure out the right ratio of beaters, removal and utility/mana fixers. 
Any thoughts?


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## Sedaiv (Dec 11, 2011)

Link her so I have some idea.


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## Mirrow (Dec 11, 2011)

Of course, here.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 11, 2011)

I use 40 lands personally, and 3 of those are searchers. You can easily use 10 searchers to find one of the 10 shock lands or 10 dual lands (hint hint). You can use Final Judgement, Wrath of God, Day of Judgement, Armagedon, Swords to Plowshare, Oblivion Ring and Path to Exhile. That should help on the White end. Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will, Dismember, Doom Blade, Go For the Throat, Terror, Black Sun Zenieth are good black removal. Incinerate, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Red Sun Zenieth for the Red.

That's off the top of my head. I'd try 40 lands, 20 creatures, 20 removal, 39 other (artifact, enchantment, etc.). I'm still trying to perfect my Commander deck.


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## noobthemusical (Dec 12, 2011)

Equipment MW Catdeck.

All those Cats all those equipment and tutors.


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 12, 2011)

Kaalia is pretty cheap for what her ability does but also very fragile.  I'd personally go with a few less lands with her in exchange for things that could protect her or make it easier for her to attack like Whispersilk Cloak.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 13, 2011)

Lightning Greaves will also help, give her Haste & Shroud.


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## Mirrow (Dec 13, 2011)

Yeah all of them are in at the moment. Aegis angel is just insane, making her indestructible.

EDIT: This is epic, what a hand.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmTSYm-_g1A&feature=g-u[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 13, 2011)

You may also consider  if you can find a copy.  Protection from white and black makes her impervious to most of the kill spells in the game, +2/+2 makes her a bit more durable if blocked and the fact that whenever she deals damage you can return a creature from your graveyard to your hand will let you bring back angels, demons and dragons that you may have lost already.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 13, 2011)

HA! I don't believe I forgot about that one.


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 13, 2011)

The hardest part about making a Kaalia commander deck is coming up with enough mana ramp and other strategies to get your heavy hitters out if your opponent is able to keep her off the field or incapacitated.

I played against a friend using Kaalia and I kept killing her as soon as she hit the field or enchanting her with things like vow of flight which nullified her ability.  After that the game was pretty much mine.  

I even had one game where I got down Elesh Norn  and Kaalia couldn't enter the field at all anymore.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 14, 2011)

Sounds pretty accurate. Casting your commander is usually a very dangerous thing to do. I know when I last played, people ignored me because they didn't see me as a threat, until I got Jenara up to a 13/13 flyer


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 14, 2011)

Yup, the key is to not be perceived as a threat until its too late.  Though sometimes its really fun to play aggressive.  The two decks I'm fiddling with right now are a Rafiq infect deck and a Thraximundar deck full of cards to force your opponents to sacrifice cards like Sheoldred.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 14, 2011)

yeah I think I got the balance down now, I just need to test and swap some things around. 

I have played too much aggro recently, thinking of working on some crazy experiment kraj deck, infinite combos are fun.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 14, 2011)

Mind posting up your current build?  I'd be curious to see it.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 15, 2011)

I guess I can post my Jenara Ramp, it's not a good ramp, but it's ramp. I know I'll need some more things like Gaea's Cradle. I'd run Harrow but I hate the idea of it getting counter spelled. 

I do think it's funny that I'm able to pump Jenara up by 4 or 5 adn swing for 21 commander damage.


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## Mirrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Jenara is really cool, it definately sucks getting a harrow countered, but if someone wants to counter harrow in a deck that runs a lot of other ramp to try and be annoying instead of something insane like primeval titan then that's fine really.

I'll post up my deck some when soon, it still needs work but I haven't got the money to invest.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 15, 2011)

Mine needs a TON or work


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 15, 2011)

Doctor said:


> I'll post up my deck some when soon, it still needs work but I haven't got the money to invest.



Post it up whenever you can, if you're still working on it we can offer suggestions.  I'm going to try to put up my Rafiq build at some point soon.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Does your Rafiq deck run blighted agent?..


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 15, 2011)




----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 15, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Does your Rafiq deck run blighted agent?..



Of course.  The deck revolves around Exalted and Infect.  Cards like Spinebiter are amazing in a deck like that.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 15, 2011)

True but Rafiq makes you a BIG target. Jenara surprising doesn't.

Avacyn Restored in May? That's really pushing that set out FAST. I wonder why they reduced the time between Dark Ascension & Avacyn Restored.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah, but like I said sometimes its fun to play aggressive.  That's why I'm also toying with Thraximundar and Kresh decks, decks where I try to actually hit 21 points of Commander damage.

With Jenara I don't think people grasp her potential, viewing her as just a 3/3 flyer until its too late.

I hope they don't rush through this block too fast.  Sorin is my favorite planeswalker and since Innistrad is his home plane I'd love to see them come up with some kickass new cards around him.


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## Mirrow (Dec 15, 2011)

Isamaru for 1v1 is my favourite aggro deck.

Hopefully the set isn't rushed, the artwork they released is epic either way.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 15, 2011)

Isamaru?  Seems like a pretty unremarkable card.


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## Mirrow (Dec 15, 2011)

It is, just a fun deck that I put together on Cockatrice.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 15, 2011)

This set is being rushed. Dark Ascension is in Febuary and May is Avacyn Restored.


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 15, 2011)

Doctor said:


> It is, just a fun deck that I put together on Cockatrice.



Fair enough though why not use Konda instead of the hound of Konda?


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 15, 2011)

Why use Jenara instead of Rafiq? Why use Rewind instead of Counterspell? Because we can


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## Mirrow (Dec 16, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Fair enough though why not use Konda instead of the hound of Konda?



Obviously insane, but it is too slow. The deck goes turn 1 hound followed by a load of cheap/powerful equipment and enchantments.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 16, 2011)

Besides the following, what else is good ramp? Thought about tossing a Crucible of Worlds & Zuran Orb in for fun & gain.

Land Tax
Oracle of Mul Diea
Harrow
Rampant Growth
Crop Rotation
Search Lands
Asuza, Lost but Seeking
Explore
Viridian Emissary
Sakura-Tribe Elder

I'm using only Basic Lands save Commander Tower and Search Lands. There also any good WUG Landfall cards?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 16, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Obviously insane, but it is too slow. The deck goes turn 1 hound followed by a load of cheap/powerful equipment and enchantments.



What kind of equipment and enchantments?


----------



## Wolfarus (Dec 17, 2011)

I enjoyed playing this quite a few years ago, when a small group was local and we played for fun.

Still have all my cards stashed in storage. A few cards from AN, Antiq, TD, Legends.. a full ice age set, ect.

Maybe the older ones will be worth putting up on ebay some day


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 17, 2011)

Wolfarus said:


> I enjoyed playing this quite a few years ago, when a small group was local and we played for fun.
> 
> Still have all my cards stashed in storage. A few cards from AN, Antiq, TD, Legends.. a full ice age set, ect.
> 
> Maybe the older ones will be worth putting up on ebay some day



How far back does your stuff go? Because I'm most interested in older stuff for Legacy & Vintage.


----------



## Wolfarus (Dec 17, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> How far back does your stuff go? Because I'm most interested in older stuff for Legacy & Vintage.



W/O finding where i put them and sorting thru everything, what i said in my post above is basicly what i remember having. A full set of ice age, and a few cards from every expansion set before that. (arabian nights, antiquities, legends, the dark, ect)

I dont remember much of what i have after ice age, though.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 17, 2011)

Anything form Alpha, Beta, Unlimited and/or Revised? Because I <3 old version of cards AND old cards.


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## Mirrow (Dec 17, 2011)

Wolfarus said:


> I enjoyed playing this quite a few years ago, when a small group was local and we played for fun.
> 
> Still have all my cards stashed in storage. A few cards from AN, Antiq, TD, Legends.. a full ice age set, ect.
> 
> Maybe the older ones will be worth putting up on ebay some day



You should start playing again... 

Commander is the thing to play at the moment, and having a collection of older cards will prove very useful for commander.




Tsukiyomi said:


> What kind of equipment and enchantments?



Honestly nearly every equip/enchantment in white that is cheap and gives a quick power boost.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 17, 2011)

I thought about a mono white Equipment deck for EDH as an alternate deck, but I'm not since I only got one Swords to Plowshare & Path to Exhile. I'm thinking about doing Puresteel in Legacy for Umezawa's Jitte and a few other note worthy equipment I'm SURE i'll be able to find.


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 17, 2011)

I used to run Kemba, it is a solid deck. She is just a cat factory.


----------



## Wolfarus (Dec 18, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> Anything form Alpha, Beta, Unlimited and/or Revised? Because I <3 old version of cards AND old cards.



Nothing as early as alpha or beta. I got into it somewhat late, and i quit somewhere around the time this ad started showing up on tv. Maybe a year or so after, at the latest.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdY21dW_5KY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Think i have a few 3rd edition cards, but id have to dig everything out and conduct an inventory check to confirm most of my hazy memories on the subject.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 18, 2011)

If you ever decide to do that, let me know. I'll rummage through a Unlimited, Fourth, Revised, Arabian Nights, The Dark, Legends, and Fallen Empires. I think those sets you SHOULD have.


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## Tsukiyomi (Dec 20, 2011)

Doctor said:


> Honestly nearly every equip/enchantment in white that is cheap and gives a quick power boost.



Any specific favorites?  I'm curious which ones you have that would make that card viable in multiplayer.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 21, 2011)

I fucking hate Blue. No matter what, I cannot beat blue. All my decks lose to ANY DECK tha uses Blue. And Control, it's like everyone I play, plays the game as "Control the Gathering."


----------



## Mirrow (Dec 21, 2011)

In EDH? Play Thrun anti control 

Half their spells will be useless


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Dec 21, 2011)

Well that's the point of control and if I'm playing to win I'll run control but I prefer to play for fun and I find blue the least fun color.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 21, 2011)

No I meant in Standard. I play magic the gathering because of hte name. I don't play "Control the Gathering". I know in Legacy & Vintage that's what the name of the game is there. Not sure about Modern, and noone cares about Extended. I've been working on the kinks in my Wolf's Run. I'll post it as a matter of fact.


----------



## Darth (Dec 21, 2011)

Trying to build a Blue/White Spirit deck. Need more Geists.. Soo expensive to build.


----------



## noobthemusical (Dec 22, 2011)

Sedaiv said:


> No I meant in Standard. I play magic the gathering because of hte name. I don't play "Control the Gathering". I know in Legacy & Vintage that's what the name of the game is there. Not sure about Modern, and noone cares about Extended. I've been working on the kinks in my Wolf's Run. I'll post it as a matter of fact.



No Vintage is Combo the gathering.
And Modern is Aggro the gathering, Zoo and Jund eat most decks for 
breakfast.


As for Legacy although some of the strongest decks do run blue they aren't really control. 
THE strongest deck in Legacy has to be reanimator, it only runs blue because of Force of will, everything else is black and creatures of varying color.

The reason it seems too strong in standard is because standard as the slowest format makes Control far more deadly, since it has more time for it's inevitable win. The best way to beat control would be to just out speed, it which is why Zoo has a positive matchup against pretty much all control.


----------



## Sedaiv (Dec 22, 2011)

Zoo isn't all that fantastic in Standard. In Legacy or Modern it very much is. That's my opinion, none based on fact. 

Vintage is Aggro the Controlling, I read all the Vintage matches for the past four worlds. Don't get me wrong, Comboing is very important, but it's definately mixesd. I have no idea why I said Vintage is control the gathering. Most of the decks did however run 4x Mana Drain & 4x FoW. But most of the decks were slower forms of Aggro, I.E. Combo... yeah you're right =/.

I built a Reanimator last night. Gotta test it some. It's mainly mono black but I rather put some blue in there. My Raffinity deck uses JUST Thoughtcast. There's no other blue. I still think that's probably one of the best Legacy decks.


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## Butō Rengoob (Dec 22, 2011)

Third set in Innistrad was announced, Avacyn Restored. Good guys gonna win it seems. Also no double faced cards in it. I had a theory that Avacyn and Griselband (main demon dude) were the same person but it seems like that might not come true. My only other idea why she disappeared was because she's a PW and she ascended.

No double faced cards would also mean no Werewolves which makes me sad 

Dark Ascension spoilers start in January.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 23, 2011)

Very Intersting. But I just want spoilers damnit.


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## Mirrow (Dec 24, 2011)

Have a good one magic players.


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## Sedaiv (Dec 25, 2011)

It's obvious that Jace wants to bone Liliana, but I'm pretty sure Garruk is going to kill her at the end of Innistrads storyline and Jace will corrupt and Garruk VS Jace will have shades of Urza (Garruk) VS Mishra (Jace)


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## Mirrow (Jan 6, 2012)

Ah, nothing like spending a few hours rearranging my binders 




Also, this is really cool.  Not sure if it is real 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmNTrm_3PQ8&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 6, 2012)

^ I'm thinking that's real. I heard about a vid spoiled for DotP 2013 on Gathering Magic where Nicol was talking but i never could find a link for it. It seems they're gonna be releasing new DotP games regularly now. Kinda dumb.

Also that's so not how i imagined Nicol to sound.


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## Mirrow (Jan 7, 2012)

He doesn't sound old enough, aside from that his voice is cool with me.


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## noobthemusical (Jan 8, 2012)

Have you guys seen the logo for M13 yet. It looks weird it's not golden.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 8, 2012)

@ Doc, i imagined it to be deeper. Elder *Dragon *and whatnot 

@ noob, i saw it. It threw me off at first but it looks ok.


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## Mirrow (Jan 8, 2012)

I like it, he sounds smooth and sinister.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 9, 2012)

That is a smooth voice 

Now this makes me want to hear more PW voices, Tezzeret i must know what you sound like!!

On another note, the way Nicol pronounced Garruk was strange and i notice people have way different ways of pronouncing it IRL. I always imagined it as Gah-Rook. But i notice a lot of people say Gehr-Rook.


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## Mirrow (Jan 9, 2012)

I take it you guys have been checking out 

Fateful hour is a badass name for a mechanic.


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## Mirrow (Jan 11, 2012)

Just thought I would throw it out there that Sorin has been spoiled. Black/White for some reason


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 11, 2012)

That ultimate ability is pretty fucking awesome though, that is the first time I've seen something that lets you destroy or steal planeswalkers.

My only problem with him being white is it makes building EDH decks with him and vampires significantly more difficult.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 11, 2012)

The only real deck this is gonna see play in is B/W tokens and...that's about it. As much as i love the idea of B/W decks it's never been a viable idea. Anyway Dark Ascension trailer:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn-mZusg9tA&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

Sorin sounds strange. What's with Wizard's and giving their PWs the most fucked up voices?


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## noobthemusical (Jan 11, 2012)

I dunno blackwhite StoneBlade is a thing in legacy granted BlueWhite is still better but, BW is no slouch.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 12, 2012)

Tsukiyomi said:


> That ultimate ability is pretty fucking awesome though, that is the first time I've seen something that lets you destroy or steal planeswalkers.
> 
> My only problem with him being white is it makes building EDH decks with him and vampires significantly more difficult.



Beast Within destroys planeswalkers.

I don't know much about Legacy, but I think my Affinity deck is going to be awesome come SGC in Febuary. Heading to Richmond, Cinci and anotehr event I forget. I think a GP.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 12, 2012)

Sedaiv said:


> Beast Within destroys planeswalkers.
> 
> I don't know much about Legacy, but I think my Affinity deck is going to be awesome come SGC in Febuary. Heading to Richmond, Cinci and anotehr event I forget. I think a GP.



Yes there are things that destroy permanents of any kind but this is the first time I've seen planeswalkers singled out as being targetable.  Plus it lets you steal them.

One of my favorite ways to destroy non-specific permanent types is World Slayer.

I managed once to get Etched Champion equipped with World Slayer with Darksteel Forge down on the field.  Basically its an unstoppable slow death for your enemies.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 13, 2012)

Worldslayer is fun but so double edged.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 13, 2012)

Depends how you use it.  Attaching it to a darksteel colossus or with that etched champion combo is so much fun.


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## Mirrow (Jan 13, 2012)

Ah worldslayer, I had elspeth's final active and I just kept on hitting someone with worldslayer. That was funny.


*Spoiler*: __


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## Sedaiv (Jan 14, 2012)

Very nice comic. I keep forgetting ot amazon/ebay the books. Sucks ass that Urza isn't only dead-dead but his sacrafice made null and void.


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## noobthemusical (Jan 14, 2012)

Why?

I mean sure Phyrexia is still there, but Yawg is dead, and he likely would have soloed Mirrodin in half the time it took new phyrexia.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 14, 2012)

Urza was simply the greatest and best and definately most popular hero they've ever had. It's like they're intentionally trying to piss off the older fans by making it so everything Urza did and accomplished mean nothing.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 14, 2012)

Um, Yawgmoth is dead, that alone makes Urza's legacy a timeless thing. New Phyrexia ain't shit. I doubt they'll even get off Mirrodin if not for Tezzeret (whom i strongly believe will become the new Father of Machines).

As for that comic, priceless


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## Sedaiv (Jan 14, 2012)

Yawgmoth isn't dead. He's in a different universe or realm. I believe it's a different realm of exsistence. Forget, been a while since I read up on Yawgmoth himself. I thought Tezzeret was killed in New Phyrexia


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 14, 2012)

No dude, Yawg's dead. The Legacy Weapon killed him. His body was destroyed = dead.

And no Tezzeret isn't dead , the NPH novel ended with Tezz fighting Glissa. According to the novel he, Glissa and Geth were fighting for supremacy to be Karn's right hand and most likely with Karn's liberation, his position as Father of Machines.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 14, 2012)

Urza had his head cut off, and his head was still alive until Gerard removed the Thran Orb form his eyes. Planeswalkers are undying. They don't die easily. Yawgmoth's alive. Check out Karona's story. Then again, it's argueable. It might be an alternate timeline, or it could be the future that Yawgmoth still lives. I"m fully aware Urborg, Yawgmoth's Tomb.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 14, 2012)

Yawgmoth isn't a planeswalker 

I know Karona's story, she assembled aspects of mana. But Karona was also very, very, very insane. Lord Windgrace also combed all of Phyrexia after the Legacy Weapon destroyed Yawgmoth in search of remnants of him. He didn't find anything.


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## noobthemusical (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah plus current design team seems to really want him to stay dead.

Though I suspect someone will find some of his remains, and use them for something.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 15, 2012)

Exactly, bringing Yawg back at this point would result in him being unbelievably weaker than what he was and that would piss a ton of fans off.

My theory is that Tezzeret channels Yawg's spirit or splices his genes into himself or something allowing Yawgmoth to "comeback" while Tezz gains the power he's desperately wanted.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 15, 2012)

Tezzeret does serve Bolas. I'm not sure if Nicol & Yawgmoth were allies or not. But that would be an interesting pack of Tezzegmoth. Thing is, the team has been hinting at both Yawgmoth & Urza as of late. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe it's something.


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## Mirrow (Jan 15, 2012)

Completely off the topic you guys were on but, how do you all feel about pimping in edh?


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## Sedaiv (Jan 15, 2012)

Urza & Yawgmoth > EDH


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## Mirrow (Jan 15, 2012)

ok                       .


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## Sedaiv (Jan 15, 2012)

I've decided I'm going to play the following decks...

Vintage: Psychatog
Legacy: Raffinity
Modern: Rakdos Vampire
Extended: NOONE PLAYS EXTENDED
Standard: Kessig
Casual: Elves


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't know if you guys have kept up with spoilers but this i had to share.

Immerwolf 1RG

2/2 Intimidate

All wolves and werewolves get +1/+1

Werewolves that aren't humans can't transform.

Werewolf decks go? . I'll update with a picture ASAP. The computer i'm on won't let me post pictures for some reason.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 16, 2012)

I keep forgetting to check out the spoilers. It'll be fun.


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## Mirrow (Jan 16, 2012)

I have been keeping up to date with spoilers, havengul lich is amazing.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 16, 2012)

The Lich is good.


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## Mirrow (Jan 16, 2012)

I just want it for edh.

Also this guy could be a cool general...


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## Sedaiv (Jan 16, 2012)

Too bad people will save coutners & kills for just him. But yeah, he looks fun. I should post my Jenara Ramp deck later.


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## noobthemusical (Jan 17, 2012)

Yeah the spoilers rock werewolf might become and actual deck.

Also lets start this what deck you play thing


Sedaiv said:


> I've decided I'm going to play the following decks...
> 
> Vintage: Psychatog
> Legacy: Raffinity
> ...



Vintage: Nothing
Legacy: Soul Sisters, B/G Infect, Burn
Modern: U/R Twin combo, Burn
Extended: He's right no one plays this
Standard: Nothing (though I could probably run Mono-B-Infect)
Casual: W-Knights


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## noobthemusical (Jan 17, 2012)

Also



We've seen most of the named cards already, my for that 7 to cast equip is something like super batterskull in a way.

Like When *this ETB put target creature in your graveyard into play and attach *this to it

It's flip side will be miracles.


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## Mirrow (Jan 17, 2012)

I play

Casual: Goblins
EDH: Kemba, Sisay, Kaalia, Mimeoplasm, Ib halfheart, Karn and omnath.
Standard: Mono red


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 18, 2012)




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## Sedaiv (Jan 19, 2012)

Rakdos Vampire is going to be top. I cannot wait till thsoe come out, and GD Cage is going to be a $30 rare. It shuts down almost EVERY deck.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 19, 2012)

GD cage is an excellent sideboard card. Goodbye Pod decks. Now people have reasons to side Ratchet Bomb and artifact hate.

I'd rather they reprinted Vampire Nocturnus than this new lord but i just love Nocturnus


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## noobthemusical (Jan 20, 2012)

Elbrus got spoiled I was wrong, still seems pretty beastly. Man I'd wish they'd unban SFM in modern the sword would be crazy in W/x Control.
Granted this could make waves more control heavy version of Stoneblade in legacy.

sword below

*Spoiler*: __ 



Elbrus, The Binding Blade 
 Legendary Artifact - Equipment (M)
 Equipped creature gets +1/+0.
 Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, transform Elbrus, the Binding Blade.
 Equip 
 ////////
Withengar Unbound

 Legendary Creature - Demon (B)
 Flying, trample, intimidate
 Whenever a player loses the game, put thirteen +1/+1 counters on Withengar Unbound.
 13/13


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## Sedaiv (Jan 20, 2012)

Fake card. I want to see it now.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 20, 2012)

That seems a bit broken, any verification that its authentic?


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## Sedaiv (Jan 20, 2012)

Tsukiyomi said:


> That seems a bit broken, any verification that its authentic?



I'm willing to bet my months pay check it's fake. There's not way they're making that. The flip effect is just flat out stupid as majority of players are single players, not EDH/Twin Headed.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 20, 2012)

You mean dealing a single point of damage for a 13/13 demon with flying, trample and intimidate and the ability to double in size when someone loses is unbalanced?

The flip effect would either need to be significantly more difficult or the flipped version would need some kind of SERIOUS drawback.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 20, 2012)

Tsukiyomi said:


> You mean dealing a single point of damage for a 13/13 demon with flying, trample and intimidate and the ability to double in size when someone loses is unbalanced?
> 
> The flip effect would either need to be significantly more difficult or the flipped version would need some kind of SERIOUS drawback.



Pretty much.

It's a fake dude. Don't buy into the troll.


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## Mirrow (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm just going to say that blood tyrant who really REALLY should be legendary for edh proves you wrong.
Not saying it is real, but I think it is a long way from broken.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 20, 2012)

not as broken as that one artifact.


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## Mirrow (Jan 20, 2012)

Yeah just pointing out the lose the game thing.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 20, 2012)

Doctor said:


> I'm just going to say that blood tyrant who really REALLY should be legendary for edh proves you wrong.
> Not saying it is real, but I think it is a long way from broken.



Blood tyrant is at least 3 colors and costs 7.  As far as I can tell that equip card is colorless and thus extremely easy to put down and even easier to flip.

You don't see the difference between 5 +1/+1 counters when someone loses and 13?  Not to mention intimidate on top of Blood Tyrant's flying and trample.  With intimidate, trample may be meaningless and unnecessary.


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## Mirrow (Jan 20, 2012)

Obviously there is a difference. I am just saying that the lose game thing does exist, responding to this.


Sedaiv said:


> I'm willing to bet my months pay check it's fake. There's not way they're making that. The flip effect is just flat out stupid as majority of players are single players, not EDH/Twin Headed.





It isn't a broken card, it costs 7 mana and you then have to pay to equip on top of having to actually get through for some damage to flip it and once it flips you have to wait a turn to be able to attack it isn't protected by indestructibility or shroud etc. It is too expensive for standard and isn't even that good in EDH. I think it is a cool card, but it isn't going to break the game.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 20, 2012)

noobthemusical said:


> Elbrus got spoiled I was wrong, still seems pretty beastly. Man I'd wish they'd unban SFM in modern the sword would be crazy in W/x Control.
> Granted this could make waves more control heavy version of Stoneblade in legacy.
> 
> sword below
> ...


Not sure if this is fake. Don't think i've seen any confirmation yet. But if this is real that's such a shit card. On the off chance you actually get to cast it it does nothing to assure it gets to hit. Bad card.


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## Mirrow (Jan 20, 2012)

Butō Rengoob said:


> Not sure if this is fake. Don't think i've seen any confirmation yet. But if this is real that's such a shit card. On the off chance you actually get to cast it it does nothing to assure it gets to hit. Bad card.



Oh my god thank you.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 20, 2012)

Doctor said:


> It isn't a broken card, it costs 7 mana and you then have to pay to equip on top of having to actually get through for some damage to flip it and once it flips *you have to wait a turn to be able to attack* it isn't protected by indestructibility or shroud etc. It is too expensive for standard and isn't even that good in EDH. I think it is a cool card, but it isn't going to break the game.



Why would you have a wait a turn to be able to attack?  I remember Morphed cards (which are similar in nature) do not suffer from summoning sickness.  And 7 colorless is EASY to ramp up to.  7 colorless and ANY amount of damage for a nigh-unblockable 13/13 that can double in size is broken.  Especially with how easy it would be to just slap something like whispersilk cloak on it.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 20, 2012)

But the chance you even get to flip it is zilch 

It may be awesome in EDH but there's no way this sees play in standard.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 21, 2012)

Still calling BS


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## Mirrow (Jan 23, 2012)




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## Sedaiv (Jan 23, 2012)

This set is SUPER broken.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 23, 2012)

Are you fucking kidding me?  The equip cost could at least be 7 as well or the stat change could be negative.  That would at least be more balanced.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 23, 2012)

Still a shit card that'll never flip. So it doesn't matter.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 23, 2012)

You really can't think of any way to flip that?  There are plenty of unblockable creatures, creatures with protection, trample, fear, flying etc...

Dealing combat damage is a ridiculously easy flip condition.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 23, 2012)

Swords are still going to take prevalence in decks that use equipment and will until Scars rotates. It's too fucking slow for decks that can't ramp, why do you think Argentum Armor was only popular while Stoneforge was unbanned and suddenly wasn't once she was? And Argentum is a far superior card. Hardcasting shit like this isn't going to happen.





No human lord 


Full Spoiler List:


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## Mirrow (Jan 24, 2012)

Still though, lords at uncommon will make limited much more fun.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 24, 2012)

Butō Rengoob said:


> Swords are still going to take prevalence in decks that use equipment and will until Scars rotates. It's too fucking slow for decks that can't ramp, why do you think Argentum Armor was only popular while Stoneforge was unbanned and suddenly wasn't once she was? And Argentum is a far superior card. Hardcasting shit like this isn't going to happen.



Ramping up to 7 is not that hard, especially in Commander games with a 40 point cushion.  Life gain decks have plenty of time, green and black can easily ramp into it.

If it was 15 I could see your point but 7 colorless to drop then 1 to equip is REALLY cheap for a creature like that.


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## Mirrow (Jan 24, 2012)

That card definitely isn't broken in commander. I can think of much more broken things than that.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 24, 2012)

Doctor said:


> That card definitely isn't broken in commander. I can think of much more broken things than that.


 
Just because there are things that are more broken doesn't mean it isn't broken.  Again 8 colorless for a 13/13 with flying, trample and intimidate and it doubles in size whenever someone loses?  There are so many combos you could do with this its not even funny.  Imagine if this was in a Rafiq deck.  You could be swinging for 28 points of damage every turn (and that assumes of course you have no other exalted effects in play).


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 25, 2012)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Ramping up to 7 is not that hard, especially in Commander games with a 40 point cushion. Life gain decks have plenty of time, green and black can easily ramp into it.
> 
> If it was 15 I could see your point but 7 colorless to drop then 1 to equip is REALLY cheap for a creature like that.


Well it was obviously designed for Multiplayer game types EDH being prevalent. I'm saying it won't see Standard play, it seems hard to build around in that format.

But hey if i get proven wrong then great. It would be cool to see someone pilot a deck using it so i can copy and use it just so i can have an excuse to play a card with such kick ass art


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## Mirrow (Jan 25, 2012)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Just because there are things that are more broken doesn't mean it isn't broken.  Again 8 colorless for a 13/13 with flying, trample and intimidate and it doubles in size whenever someone loses?  There are so many combos you could do with this its not even funny.  Imagine if this was in a Rafiq deck.  You could be swinging for 28 points of damage every turn (and that assumes of course you have no other exalted effects in play).



Seems like a waste of time in a rafiq deck to me. I would much rather put a sword on him and swing for commander damage and get double sword effects. As soon as you get a 13/13 that gets bigger when people die everyone will target you, and seeing as it has no way of protecting itself it will die.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 25, 2012)

Rafiq was just one example of a possible use for him.  There are plenty of ways to protect him and make him harder to deal with.  If you're playing green it wouldn't take long to ramp up to 7 and drop asceticism to give him hexproof and regenerate or drop a whispersilk cloak on him to give him shroud and make him completely unblockable.

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays.  I personally predict a lot of abuse strategies focused around him but I've been wrong before.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't forget about Lightning Greaves and that Scars LG that gives Hexproof instead of Shroud. I plan to run two copies of that artifact in my Kessig, see how much damage I can do. I know I can make 7 drops on turn 3 or 4.


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## Mirrow (Jan 26, 2012)

I just thought I would share this... 

Chas Andres' thoughts on the card



> First, this card is pretty easy to dismiss in Standard. No one is going to pay seven mana for a spell that does literally nothing until you equip it to a creature and connect with it ? not with Karn around, at any rate.
> 
> Elbrus is slightly more intriguing in Legacy, where Stoneforge Mystic is legal. I doubt it?ll show up, but I could certainly see a format where this card made it as a 1-of Stoneforge Tutor target in certain slower matchups.
> 
> Obviously this card is designed for multiplayer/Commander play, but I don?t love it in that format either. The best cards in Commander are either subtly good or really stupid right away ? they win the game slowly without drawing attention or allow you to do something broken immediately. Elbrus sits around and looks REALLY scary without doing much of anything, which mostly means that people will target you because they don?t want the blade morphing into a big, scary demon.


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## Tsukiyomi (Jan 26, 2012)

Again that assumes they can stop you before you get it down.  Have you see how fast some decks can ramp up to 7?  Its not very hard at all.

As we pointed out above there are _plenty_ of ways to give it shroud/hexproof and other protections.

If I were to try to get it down I'd make sure I had enough to equip it right away, preferably to something that has a good chance of dealing combat damage like something with protection.  You'd be able to drop it and flip it on the same turn before abilities like Karn's could be used.  Drop lightning greaves on him and he instantly gets shroud and the ability to swing at Karn and in all likelyhood kill him.

Add to that the fact that you can get protection for him down like Asceticism or Spearbreaker Behemoth  _before_ you put the artifact down or try to flip it so it would instantly gain the protections they provide.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 28, 2012)

Anyone go to a Pre-release? We had a special event where a few players were designated "Monsters" i.e. Zombie, Werewolf, Spirit, Vampire and the rest were humans. Whenever a monster beat a human they turned into that monster. At the end of the release the faction that had the most would get some special prizes.

Pretty cool if you ask me.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 28, 2012)

Why the Hell would anyone want to pay $30 for 3 packs of Dark Ascension? Because everyone has so much Innistrad (I have so much, I have a FULL set and still got extras of most rare cards, including mythics). It would be dumb to pay $30 for 3 packs of DA.


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## Mirrow (Jan 28, 2012)

to play the event and get prizes?

I'm not doing a pre release this time round.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 28, 2012)

Wizards told their stores to do 3 Innistarad and 3 Dark Ascention. I wouldn't do a pre-release if my life depends on it. I wouldn't do a draft if my life depends on it. I suck ass at drafting in general. I'm not wasting my money to go 0-4/5


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## Mirrow (Jan 28, 2012)

That's how all middle sets work. DA is smaller and designed to work in conjunction with innistrad. Draft is awesome. I swear limited and EDH is all I play really.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 28, 2012)

$30 for Dark Ascention is bull shit is what I'm getting that at. I'll pay $20 for a Inn/DA Draft, but not $30. Unless I'm 100% guaranteed a Foil Liliana, Foil Garruk and another Mythic or two from DA, I'm not paying $30 and noone wants to do that crap either, unless they're retarded.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 28, 2012)

My pre-release was only 25 if that makes it seem better at all. I did get an Undead Alchemist and Havengul Lich, made a pretty sweet zombie mill type deck.


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## Sedaiv (Jan 28, 2012)

Butō Rengoob said:


> My pre-release was only 25 if that makes it seem better at all. I did get an Undead Alchemist and Havengul Lich, made a pretty sweet zombie mill type deck.



My areas are/were charging $30. Screw that, I'll pay $30 for like a Ravnica Draft or a Urza Draft (Hell, I'll pay $50 for a Urza Draft) but not $30 for Inn/DA. That's almost ast bad as paying $300 for a Revised Draft. It's only good if you pack straight up dual lands.


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## Butō Rengoob (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah i get what you're saying. But that's magic in general, it's pricy as hell.

Anyway, anyone else love Geralf's Messenger? I gotta build a deck around him.


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## Sedaiv (Feb 1, 2012)

Not really compared to other games like DBZ (back in the day) or Yu-Gi-Oh! (Currently)


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## Sedaiv (Feb 2, 2012)

If anyone is going to the Star City Gaming Open Series in Richmond, VA. I'll be heading there folks! You'll have a chance to play me in Standard and Legacy. I don't have a modern deck yet, I'll be building both a Rakdos Vampire & Green Elves, but until then. Not sure.


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## Akatora (May 3, 2013)

Dragons Maze arrived

So what do you guys think of it?
some cards disgustingly powerful(and surprise surprise they're usually rare  to make profit -_-)
Still I think the series look more intersting to me than Gatecrash though probably less than Return to Ravnica.

Looking forward to draft it in the future


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 14, 2015)

I am a major fan of this game (I have been playing it since 2003), and I frequently get together to hang out with my friends, who also play this game. We always have great times playing this game, but we are always seeking new players to play with us at our local game store.

I obviously cannot reveal the name of my local game store, since I value my anonymity online, but I can say that, if any members of this forum are players of _Magic: the Gathering,_ are looking to meet other players, and live in or around the state of Massachusetts in the United States, please do let me know. If you are interested, I can contact you by private message to reveal the name of my local game store and when I shall next be there.

Thank you very much.


----------

