# Star Wars: The Last Jedi [December 15th, 2017]



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jun 21, 2014)

​


> *Rian Johnson To Write & Direct Next Two STAR WARS Films!*
> 
> Fans wondered if Star Trek director J.J. Abrams would stay on and direct  the final two entries in the new Star Wars trilogy, and now it seems we have the answer. According to Deadline, Lucasfilm has made a deal with Looper writer-director Rian Johnson to write and direct Star Wars Episodes VIII and IX. The site say they don't know too much more about it at this point, but with the hiring of Chronicle?s Josh Trank and Godzilla?s Gareth Edwards for their standalone films, it seems clear that Lucasfilm/Disney are looking for young, talented and also geek-friendly directors to kickstart their new journey to the galaxy far far away.
> 
> *UPDATE:* THR report that Johnson will only direct Episode VIII, but he is writing a treatment for Episode IX.


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## Stunna (Jun 21, 2014)

Seems odd to have a thread for VIII over a year before VII has even come out.


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## Parallax (Jun 21, 2014)

why not just have single all purpose star wars thread


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## Stunna (Jun 21, 2014)

This could have been posted in the Episode VII thread, yes.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 21, 2014)

Why not wait until we get atleast a teaser for it's predecessor  before thinking of the next film?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 28, 2014)

> *Rian Johnson Talks STAR WARS EPISODE VIII; "I Wanted To Play In This World"*
> 
> Rian Johnson (who was responsible for directing some of the best episodes of Breaking Bad) is set to write and direct Star Wars Episode VIII, while he is also attached to write a treatment for - and possibly helm - Episode IX as well. The filmmaker recently made an appearance on the 500th Filmspotting podcast and was asked what most excited him about working on the movies. _"I’m really excited about all the things I can’t tell you. The thought of it made me so completely joyfully happy. I wanted to to play in this world, of literally the first movie my dad put me in the car to see."_ As for how he landed the job, he would only provide a jokey answer (_"I can only assume it was a clerical error, like in the movie ‘Brazil.’ There’s a ‘Brian Johnson’ out there who is really mad!"_) before adding that working at Lucasfilm has been, "kind of like summer camp," before stating that he's still very early in the process. As for how he advise new fans to the Star Wars franchise to watch the movies, Johnson added: _"I would do (Episodes) 4-6 then 1-3. Storytelling-wise, 4-6 were constructed without the knowledge of the past. There was something really beautiful about the prequels. With these films, I am trying to harken back to the original ‘Star Wars’...Christmas special. We do have Jefferson Starship!"_ he joked.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 28, 2014)

so, are we writing off JarJar Abrams' ep 7 and just rooting for 8 and 9?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 19, 2014)

> *Rian Johnson Talks STAR WARS EPISODE VIII Creative Freedom, Lucasfilm Influence And More*
> 
> Breaking Bad and Looper director Rian Johnson recently appeared on the TalkHouse podcast for a lengthy discussion with Terry Gilliam, and thanks to The Playlist, we have a transcription of everything related to Star Wars Episode VIII which he will direct for a planned 2017 release.
> 
> ...


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## tari101190 (Sep 19, 2014)

Hopefully Rian Johnson brings his noir sensibilities to this space epic.

He's one of my favourites directors.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 10, 2014)

> *Rian Johnson's STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII Will Also Shoot At Pinewood*
> 
> During a keynote address at the annual conference of the Confederation of British Industry, Pinewood Shepperton chief exec Ivan Dunleavy confirmed that the eight instalment in Disney/Lucasfilm's Star Wars franchise would indeed return to shoot at the U.K. studio. Episode VII (now officially titled "The Force Awakens") wrapped production there recently having also shot in Abu Dhabi and Iceland, but the still-untitled eight movie will be written and directed by Rian Johnson (Looper, Brick) with Disney scheduled to release the movie in 2017. Before that though, Pinewood will play host to Sam Mendes' new James Bond flick, which will see Daniel Craig reprise the role of 007.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 30, 2015)

> *Bob Iger Reaffirms STAR WARS Episode VIII And IX Release Dates*
> 
> ccording to The Wrap [via Get Your Geek On], Walt Disney CEO Bob Iger has revealed to Disney investors that *Star Wars: Episode VIII will arrive in 2017* and *Episode IX will arrive in 2019.*  Currently, Rian Johnson (Looper) is attached to direct.  J.J. Abrams' Star Wars: The Force Awakens will hit theaters on Dec. 18, 2015.  Here's what Iger shared with Disney stockholders in a written statement:
> 
> _“As one of the few people allowed to visit the set during filming… and one of the fewer who’s seen most of the footage… I can assure the millions of ‘Star Wars’ fans who have spent the last decade hoping for a new movie this one will be worth the wait. And it’s only the beginning of a new era of exceptional ‘Star Wars’ storytelling; next year we’ll release our first standalone movie based on these characters, followed by ‘Star Wars: Episode VIII’ in 2017, and we’ll finish this trilogy with ‘Episode IX’ in 2019."_


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## Legend (Jan 30, 2015)

Excellent


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 31, 2015)

Why the hell does this thread already exist? Have we already seen Episode 7?  Oh wait, this was made by Sennin 



Parallax said:


> why not just have single all purpose star wars thread



This or just a Star Wars sub-section (surprised there isn't one).


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## tari101190 (Mar 12, 2015)

*Star Wars: Episode VIII (May 26th, 2017)*

VG247



> A relatively short time after, Rian Johnson‘s Star Wars: Episode VIII will open on May 26th, 2017. Check out their press release below:





> In addition, Iger confirmed that Rian Johnson will write and direct Star Wars: Episode VIII. The film, which continues the saga after the events of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, is set for release on May 26, 2017 — forty years and a day after the release of Star Wars: A New Hope in 1977. Johnson is widely considered one of cinema’s most gifted young filmmakers, having directed the modern sci-fi classic, Looper, as well as Brick and The Brothers Bloom. He was also behind the camera for three episodes of the critically-acclaimed TV series Breaking Bad, including “Ozymandias,” which series creator Vince Gilligan named as the best installment of the show. Kathleen Kennedy and Ram Bergman, producer of Looper, Don Jon, Brick, and The Brothers Bloom, are on board to produce.



Please just make a Star Wars sub-section.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 12, 2015)

> *STAR WARS Episode VIII Gets Release Date; Gareth Edwards' Spinoff Titled ROGUE ONE*
> 
> How does two Star Wars movies within five months sound? That's exactly what will happen when Star Wars Episode VIII is released in *May 2017* following Gareth Edwards' Rogue One in December. All the details can be found in the press release below, but you have to imagine that Disney will move Guardians of the Galaxy 2 as there's only three weeks between them now. We'll see!
> 
> ...


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## Legend (Mar 12, 2015)

So its gonna be a quick turn around


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 20, 2015)

> *Benicio Del Toro Eyed For Villainous Role In Rian Johnson's STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> According to The Wrap, Benicio del Toro has been offered the chance to play the villain in 2017's Star Wars: Episode VIII. There's no word on who he might be playing at this early stage, but him joining this world would bring even more diversity to a series of films which were previously very white to say the least! That aside though and del Toro was great as a villain in the likes of Savages and Sin City and would no doubt make for a very interesting foe for the heroes in the Rian Johnson helmed follow-up to Star Wars: The Force Awakens. What this means for Kylo Ren and some of the other baddies we've heard about who will factor into J.J. Abrams' upcoming movie isn't clear, but it sounds like it might be a pretty sizeable role. Whether or not he'll return as The Collector in Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2 also remains to be seen. What do you think about this casting news?


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 20, 2015)

well he already looks like he's succumbed to dark side corruption so little make up will be needed....


or maybe he'll play a Moff or some other Imperial. 

I doubt they'd dispose of a budding Sith in 1 short movie after all.


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## Stunna (Jul 21, 2015)

this thread still doesn't need to exist


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## Harbour (Jul 21, 2015)

Benicio Del Toro using red lightsaber and sith robe


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## Legend (Jul 21, 2015)

watch him be a general


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 14, 2015)

> *Benicio Del Toro Confident He'll Play VIllain In STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> Guardians of the Galaxy actor Benicio Del Toro may go from playing The Collector to Sith Lord in Rian Johnson's  Star Wars: Episode VIII.  Speaking to ET, Del Toro confirmed an earlier report from The Wrap that he is indeed in contention to play the villain in Episode VIII.  _"I can’t tell you much about it but I think that it might happen. It looks like it’s gonna happen so I’m very excited.  I can’t talk too much about it. The script is hard to get. They told me they’d cut my finger if I talk about it.  I saw the original [Star Wars] when it came out and it marked me.  I was impressed by the film and by the characters and by the story and the message."_
> 
> ...


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## BlazingInferno (Aug 15, 2015)

Oi, this thread still exists?


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## Stunna (Aug 15, 2015)

for some reason


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 1, 2015)

> *Tatiana Maslany, Gina Rodriguez, & Olivia Cooke Lead Shortlist For STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> The Wrap has just revealed a shortlist for the new female lead in Disney/Lucasfilm's next Star Wars sequel, the Rian Johnson-directed Star Wars: Episode VIII; that shortlist includes Golden Globe nominee Tatiana Maslany (Orphan Black), Golden Globe winner Gina Rodriguez (Jane The Virgin), and relative newcomer Olivia Cooke (Me And Earl And The Dying Girl).
> 
> ...


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## Stunna (Sep 1, 2015)

Maslany


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 1, 2015)

Tatiana is the better actress...though that Cooke girly is cute in a pedo sort of way.


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## Legend (Sep 2, 2015)

All are good options,


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 3, 2015)

> The Wrap also adds that it's still fairly early days for casting, as Johnson is currently in the process of auditioning several young up-and-coming actresses. A few of these yet-to-audition actresses, along with Maslany, Cooke, & Rodriguez, will then be among a group of women slated to read opposite Star Wars: The Force Awakens star John Boyega sometime before the end of the month.


this means Boyega will survive ep7 and will appear in ep8 as well ?


FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU


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## Legend (Sep 3, 2015)

The Real Star is Finn, we need a Jake or Fionna


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## Stunna (Sep 3, 2015)

uh, was there ever any doubt that Finn was going to survive? wtf


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 3, 2015)

I wonder if by the time he becomes MechaFinn he will still be breathing heavily in every scene he's in...

/SmugShitEatingGrin


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 3, 2015)

> *Benicio Del Toro Confirms STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII Villain Role*
> 
> Actor Benicio Del Toro just confirmed to Spanish outlet   that he will indeed play the villain in Star Wars: Episode VIII and that filming starts in March.  The news comes after Del Toro previously told reporters last month that _"he thinks"_ he'll take the role. The only other actor mentioned for the role was Joaquin Phoenix.  However, Phoenix recently gave an interview where he stated that the reason he turns down blockbuster roles is because 75% of the script is, _"a description of some asteroid going through space."_  Perhaps Joaquin made this comment in reference to the Star Wars script he just read?
> 
> Rian Johnson is writing and directing the sequel to J.J. Abrams' The Force Awakens.  Joining Del Toro will be Donnie Yen, and Oscar Isaac - who will be reprising his role as Poe Dameron.  Casting is underway for a new female lead and the current shortlist includes Tatiana Maslany (Orphan Black), Gina Rodriguez (Jane the Virgin) and Olivia Cooke (Bates Motel).   The film is scheduled for release on May 26, 2017.


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## tari101190 (Sep 4, 2015)

Personally, I would want to see Olivia Cooke get the role.


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 6, 2015)

is she any good or just cutesy?


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## Mikaveli (Sep 9, 2015)

I want Tatiana or Gina personally


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## Shark Skin (Sep 9, 2015)

RAGING BONER said:


> I wonder if by the time he becomes MechaFinn he will still be breathing heavily in every scene he's in...
> 
> /SmugShitEatingGrin



It will be heavy mechanized breathing


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## Rukia (Sep 9, 2015)

Minimal interest in this.  People are more excited about Rogue One.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 9, 2015)

Shooting starts this month, cool:



> *STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII Begins Shooting This Month In Ireland*
> 
> tar Wars: The Force Awakens is still a few months away from release, but Looper directer Rian Johnson is already set to begin shooting the follow-up movie, which we'll be calling Episode VIII until the official tile is announced.
> 
> ...


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 14, 2015)

> *First Images & Possible Scene Details From The Set Of STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> Though it's still very early days out on Skellig Michael, a location survey of the island has been completed, and the crew are busying themselves setting things up for the shoot next week. Thanks to a local newspaper and Star Wars 7 News, we have our first set pics as well as a behind-the-scenes report from a visitor to the island.
> 
> ...


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 15, 2015)

> *Benicio Del Toro May Not Be Playing The Villain In STAR WARS EPISODE VIII After All*
> 
> Benicio Del Toro has already confirmed that we'll see him in Star Wars Episode VIII, but it sounds like he may not be as villainous as we all assumed after an interview which saw the actor seemingly confirm that he'll be playing a bad guy in the 2017 release. _"I don't know if he's a villain,"_ Del Toro teases in the video above. _"People are saying that, but it's like they read a different script than I read. It's nice to keep people in the dark, a little bit of mystery is good. If they want to believe it’s the villain, then good."_ It could be that this is a bit of damage control on the Sicario star's part, but it's also possible that his character's allegiances won't be as black and white as some of the other heroes and villains of the Star Wars franchise. What do you guys think about his comments?


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## Stunna (Sep 15, 2015)

Hot damn, dude.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 7, 2015)

> *Gugu Mbatha-Raw Joins The Cast Of STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> Last week, Latino Review reported that Gugu Mbatha-Raw (Jupiter Ascending, Beyond The Lights) had joined Gina Rodriguez (Jane the Virgin), Tatiana Maslany (Orphan Black) and Olivia Cooke (Me And earl And The Dying Girl) on the shortlist for one of the female leads in Rian Johnson's Star Wars: Episode VIII, and according to Collider's sources the actress has won the role.
> 
> ...


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## Stringer (Oct 8, 2015)

Gugu you say?


That's my waifu right there.

It's actually nice to see her starting to gain more spotlight.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 8, 2015)

goddamn, i read _Gugu Mbatha-Raw_ and automatically assumed it would be some sort of freak beast straight from hell sent to play one of SW's crazy looking aliens.


but she fine tho...Mmm, she fine.


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## tari101190 (Oct 8, 2015)

Gugu is great! Only saw her in a couple films. Belle I think And something else.


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## Vault (Oct 8, 2015)

Too much in mah Star Wars and I mean too much


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 9, 2015)

> *JJ Abrams Talks Working With Rian Johnson To Pave The Way For STAR WARS Episode VIII*
> 
> Earlier today, we received a fantastic batch of BTS stills for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, courtesy of Wired. The site also conducted a fascinating, in-depth interview with director JJ Abrams, who delved into his thought process and experience directing the movie. The whole piece is a great read, but one of the most interesting tidbits he dropped was about how he and incoming Episode VIII director Rian Johnson worked together to create a smooth transition between the two movies.
> 
> ...


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 23, 2015)




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## BlazingInferno (Nov 23, 2015)

Captain Obvious at it again.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 15, 2015)

> *Gugu Mbatha-Raw Rumored To Have Secured Role For STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII*
> 
> The Wrap reports in their story of new Black Mirror episodes from Netflix that the series lead,  Gugu Mbatha-Raw is expected to join the cast of Star Wars: Episode VIII. However, The Hollywood Reporter somewhat contradicts their report, adding  that Mbatha-Raw was indeed in discussions to join the cast but is no longer in the running.  While you could typically take The Wrap's reports as gospel, the contradiction from The Hollywood Reporter makes us advice that you consider this a rumor for the time being.
> 
> ...


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## Bluebeard (Dec 18, 2015)

I wonder what role Benicio Del Toro is playing. Perhaps another member of the Knights of the Ren or a newly promoted First Order General?


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 18, 2015)

Sennin I must ask is this your job as I you get pay to keep updating us with any and every movie news out there?


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## Gabe (Dec 18, 2015)

Hope we do get to see many knights of ren


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 21, 2015)

> *Daisy Ridley Praises Star Wars 8 Script*
> 
> Moviegoers around the globe are finally getting a chance to see J.J. Abrams? Star Wars: The Force Awakens, but well before Disney released the movie in theaters they were busy planning the franchise?s future. As crazy as it sounds, fans are only a year and a half away from Rian Johnson?s Star Wars: Episode VIII, which is scheduled to hit theaters in May 2017.
> 
> ...


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## Mikaveli (Dec 21, 2015)

The Mad King said:


> Sennin I must ask is this your job as I you get pay to keep updating us with any and every movie news out there?



He's the Sennin of *HARD WORK* goddammit.


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## Mider T (Dec 21, 2015)

Gugu ? Poe Dameron


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## Psychic (Dec 22, 2015)

Looking forward to episode XIII. Do we know who Benicio will be playing yet?


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## Harbour (Dec 24, 2015)

Plot of 8EP:

-Rey and Luke train during the whole EP.
-Kylo and Snoke do the same.
-Finn and Black Female Lead run away from Benicio's FO Fleet during the whole EP.
-Rey sees some shit will happen to Finn. She comes to rescue but eventually looses to Kylo and looses the arm.

Poe Dameron/Finn saves her and flies away. The end.


Hmmm, that reminds me something.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 25, 2015)

The thing is, while TFA was a terrible film, it was mainly the fault of a terrible script. I wouldn't mind JJ directing the rest of the franchise as long as they found a different script writer.


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## Legend (Dec 25, 2015)

It needs Lando


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 25, 2015)

Psychic said:


> Looking forward to episode XIII. Do we know who Benicio will be playing yet?



There is some speculation (from people who have read the new canon materials) that he may be playing a version of this guy:


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## Legend (Dec 25, 2015)

Thrawn


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## Bender (Dec 26, 2015)

I wanna see Finn get some from miss Rey. 

Also Rey should have double bladed lightsaber like Maul and give Finn back Anakin's lightsaber for round two with Kylo Ren.


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## Bluebeard (Jan 2, 2016)

If Benicio Del Toro is Thrawn that would be incredibly badass.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

I wanna see Leia kick some ass. Show us that they're following up on her having as much potential in the Force as Luke in this continuity.


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2016)

It's not something they need to follow up on because potential doesn't have to be fulfilled. I'm cool with seeing what she did with regards to the political side of things. In some respects, her not pursuing the force would be reflective of her decision to take an aggressive approach to pursuing peace.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

it doesn't _need_ to be shown, but I still want to see it

there's no reason why she couldn't have been trained by Luke for the sake of self-defense


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2016)

It depends on what he wants out of the Jedi order. I doubt he would train someone with the sole purpose of making them a combatant.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

he knows his sister is Force-sensitive. I don't think it'd be a big deal at all for him to teach her how to use a lightsaber and some basic Force techniques.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

Leia vs. Kylo Ren.

You know you want to see it.


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2016)

Did the Jedi go around teaching people non Jedi how to wield the force? It could potentially be a big deal if she didn't have the right foundation. I just don't see him taking a ''You know what, it would be pretty cool if she could use the force a weapon to defend herself'' approach. It's pretty irresponsible. 

Maybe he did train her how to use the force, but I think it is more likely that her own beliefs and goals in life led her down a path that didn't include Luke's teachings.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 2, 2016)

Well, it's different in her case because as Stunna said she IS force sensitive.


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## Stunna (Jan 2, 2016)

Luke wouldn't be going around teaching just _anyone_ how to use the Force

it would be _Leia_. His trusted sister, who serves a vital role in attaining and preserving peace in the galaxy.

it seems irresponsible _not_ to teach her something that would only help their cause


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## Raiden (Jan 2, 2016)

#LETSGOLEIA


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## Tom Servo (Jan 2, 2016)

Bender said:


> I wanna see Finn get some from miss Rey.
> 
> Also Rey should have double bladed lightsaber like Maul and give Finn back Anakin's lightsaber for round two with Kylo Ren.



$50 says Finn gets friendzoned every other time he's on screen.


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## Gunners (Jan 3, 2016)

WAD said:


> Well, it's different in her case because as Stunna said she IS force sensitive.





Stunna said:


> Luke wouldn't be going around teaching just _anyone_ how to use the Force
> 
> it would be _Leia_. His trusted sister, who serves a vital role in attaining and preserving peace in the galaxy.
> 
> it seems irresponsible _not_ to teach her something that would only help their cause



So what you're saying is that he should make an exception where his sister is concerned? You have made the claim that he trusts his sister but trust is not something that should make an individual compromise their ethics and it doesn't have to be absolute. 

The last part of your post points towards the irresponsibility. If he took the approach that _it would only help their cause_, it would be an irresponsible approach as it would overlook the risk in training someone with political power and influence to wield the force as a weapon (without ensuring they adhere to the same principles of peace).


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2016)

Gunners said:


> You have made the claim that he trusts his sister but trust is not something that should make an individual compromise their ethics...


You keep making it sound unethical despite there being nothing in the films that supports the idea that Luke would find training Leia to actually _be_ unethical.

Like, even if you were to say that the Jedi of the Republic era would never train someone to use the Force who wasn't a part of their Order, Luke isn't a Jedi of the Republic era. And we already know how their strict rules got them in trouble.



> The last part of your post points towards the irresponsibility. If he took the approach that _it would only help their cause_, it would be an irresponsible approach as it would overlook the risk in training someone with political power and influence to wield the force as a weapon (without ensuring they adhere to the same principles of peace).


So you're saying that if you were a powerful space wizard, and you had a sister who was instrumental to a galactic peace effort, you _wouldn't_ share your wizardly powers with her? Despite the fact that you know that she's a priority target of space Nazis, and Force knows how many other dangerous enemies?

Luke knows that Leia is a person of character. Even if she does have a position of political power, that doesn't mean that she's going to turn into the next Palpatine. 

I dunno, man. Seems like the pros outweigh the cons.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 11, 2016)

> *A New Name Surfaces In STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII's Search For Female Lead*
> 
> A new rumor purports that Bel Powley, breakout actress from last year’s excellent Diary Of A Teenage Girl is the latest potential new cast addition for Star Wars: Episode VIII.  Hosted by The Wrap's Jeff Sneider, it should be noted that anything the film reporter reveals on Meet The Movie Press instead of his official platform at The Wrap should be considered a RUMOR.  It should be noted that Sneider isn't actually sure if Powley is in the mix for the same role that Mbatha-Raw was rumored to have secured or if she's being considered for a different character altogether.
> 
> ...






> *John Boyega Says STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII Is Darker, Finn Is More Physical*
> 
> Though Finn brought a lot of physicality to Star Wars: The Force Awakens as the temporary holder of Luke's lightsaber, actor John Boyega has teased that his character will have an even greater physical presence in Episode VIII. The 23-year-old, English actor also stated that the next film will be darker.  Said Boyega, _"[The script is] great. Much darker, but we’re very excited... My part in the next film will be much more physical so I might be in the gym a bit more."_
> 
> ...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 11, 2016)

Finn is the muscle


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## Zeta42 (Jan 11, 2016)

Bender said:


> Also Rey should have double bladed lightsaber like Maul and give Finn back Anakin's lightsaber for round two with Kylo Ren.


>mfw Finn cuts off Kylo's arm with Anakin's saber


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## Bender (Jan 11, 2016)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


>



Fin. Gets force roids.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 11, 2016)

i hope they make Finn into a super cyborg with a Cybernetic spine...like that one villain who was an African hunter in Batman Beyond iirc

don't need the force when you have the speed and reflexes of a cheetah


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## Legend (Jan 12, 2016)

he will be badass i hope


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## A. Waltz (Jan 12, 2016)

what does he mean by physical? more fighting? shirtless scene? gets physical with rey? lol


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 12, 2016)

> what does he mean by physical?


they will make Finn the Head of Sanitation Department of the Resistance


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 12, 2016)

Weiss said:


> they will make Finn the Head of Sanitation Department of the Resistance



he'll be like Grievous...but with brooms and mops.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 18, 2016)

> *Star Wars 8 Script Being Rewritten to Focus on Force Awakens Characters?*
> 
> Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens is still enjoying its lucrative theatrical run, but always in motion is the future. Well before Star Wars 7 hit theaters, Lucasfilm hired Rian Johnson to write and direct Star Wars: Episode VIII, giving him ample time to collaborate with Force Awakens helmsman J.J. Abrams and iron out the larger picture of the trilogy. With the currently untitled Episode VIII slated for a May 2017 release, Johnson is working hard on getting all the pieces in place.
> 
> ...


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 18, 2016)

How worrisome


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## Lucaniel (Jan 18, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I wanna see Leia kick some ass. Show us that they're following up on her having as much potential in the Force as Luke in this continuity.





Stunna said:


> Leia vs. Kylo Ren.
> 
> You know you want to see it.


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## FLORIDA MAN (Jan 18, 2016)

why did i know that was going to be a raspberry before i even clicked it


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## Mider T (Jan 18, 2016)

Bender said:


> Fin. Gets force roids.



Finn*.  Unless you mean the end, which you'd be wrong because there's one more left.


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## Stunna (Jan 18, 2016)

fuk u, luc


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## soulnova (Jan 18, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> what does he mean by physical? more fighting? shirtless scene? gets physical with rey? lol



Let's be honest,  right now he has a better chance with Poe.


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## Stunna (Jan 18, 2016)

He might have a good chance with Poe, but Poe doesn't have a good chance with him.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 18, 2016)

soulnova said:


> Let's be honest,  right now he has a better chance with Poe.



she kissed him at the end though? i thought it was sweet. they seem to care about each other a lot.


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## Stunna (Jan 18, 2016)

It was on the forehead, likely so that the audience could either perceive it as a friendly or romantic gesture.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 18, 2016)

> an asian actress cuz china sales weren't as good
aka probably hire fan bingbing, insta china moneymaker. lol
smh, this kind of pisses me off. i wanted to see gugu. well i guess hiring an asian for the money is better than hiring one for the sake of having a token female minority character or whatever. not that it seemed that way, but now it kind of does. lol who cares

glad there's a rewrite to have more of rey and the others. they felt shortchanged in TFA because they spent too much time with han :\ 

but  now that he's dead i doubt he can monopolize screen time as much. i would love to see luke. and i guess leia probably wont get a huge role


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 18, 2016)

"Creative Freedom", you have no idea how much I hate that sentence when applied to Disney and Star Wars.

Like how they.... retconned the totally awesome Imperial Palace:









Into just being.... the Jedi temple Palpatine occupied after he built the Empire.

Why Disney?


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 19, 2016)

Leia doesn't need to be running around doing action hero stuff. There's more than one way to demonstrate someone's strong connection to the Force. They did that pretty well with both Maz and Leia in Episode 7 without making the mistake of having them spring around like a coked up frog like they did with prequel Yoda.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 19, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> "Creative Freedom", you have no idea how much I hate that sentence when applied to Disney and Star Wars.
> 
> Like how they.... retconned the totally awesome Imperial Palace:
> 
> ...


Petty complaint. I feel as though some people fish for acknowledgement when it comes to bitching.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 19, 2016)

hmm


----------



## Stunna (Jan 19, 2016)

doesn't mean anything in context of the movies; it's just Johnson pandering to the LGBTQ crowd, just like when Hamill told some people on Twitter that Luke could be interpreted as trans or bi or something like that.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 19, 2016)

oh shit

I can shitpost in here too


----------



## Stunna (Jan 20, 2016)

Episode VIII pushed back from May to December 15

Link removed

saw this coming from _miles_ away


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 20, 2016)

That's quite a jump

But yeah, They still seem to be figuring things out and I'd rather they didn't rush.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 20, 2016)

they want to replicate the same conditions that TFA was able to make bank in as closely as possible lol


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 20, 2016)

I actually predict this will make less


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 20, 2016)

So far Variety is the only "credible" source reporting on this. There hasn't been an official announcement yet. The only other sources aren't exactly trustworthy, but they are also the source with the least information, which tells me that they are reposting someone else's story.

December 15th was the original release date.

I'm going to reserve judgement on whether or not I buy that until something comes out that officially says it.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 20, 2016)

Time will fly and it'll be December 2017 before we know it.


----------



## Legend (Jan 20, 2016)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 21, 2016)

i heard the rewrites are in response to fans...? (from images/tweets that ive seen on instagram)

people (tumblr fangirls) hoping it's to include poe x finn or at least make poe gay or something cuz everyone ships them and then there are those who are all "omg diversity !!"

tbh i hate that fans have so much control now. like just let the story play out, damn. if the story calls for the characters to be that way then go ahead but dont just change it just cuz fangirls like to make gay ships all the goddamn time. i mean how can you be content with something that was artificially created to appease you? how can you be content with a ship like that, that didn't even occur naturally, and only occurred cuz people asked for it?


----------



## Mider T (Jan 21, 2016)

Trying to destroy the holiday box market again I see.


----------



## Raiden (Jan 21, 2016)

Sad that it will take so long but still excited.


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 21, 2016)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Time will fly and it'll be December 2017 before we know it.



Especially when you're as fucking old as I am.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jan 21, 2016)

Gunners said:


> Petty complaint. I feel as though some people fish for acknowledgement when it comes to bitching.



OMG Gunnads srsly? You havent changed at all dude.
You just pout about people being upset about disnay and jar jar abrahams for not having an ounce of creativity or neat storytelling.

They canibalized the expanded universe into their fanfic neckbeard tier crap, hiring a bunch of tumblr hipsters to dictate whats cannon and what is not and to write fan fic tier novels.

Granted the expanded universe was a clusterfuck but it had original and awesome ideas to work with. Specially really neat imagery.

As for Finn, he has to Nail that Poe.
Anyways this new director has one helluva mess to clear and clean. Hopefully he includes Mara Jade altought I kind of doubt it.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 21, 2016)

Man, what a shitposter.


----------



## Gunners (Jan 21, 2016)

Suigetsu said:


> OMG Gunnads srsly? You havent changed at all dude.
> You just pout about people being upset about disnay and jar jar abrahams for not having an ounce of creativity or neat storytelling.
> 
> They canibalized the expanded universe into their fanfic neckbeard tier crap, hiring a bunch of tumblr hipsters to dictate whats cannon and what is not and to write fan fic tier novels.
> ...






Stunna said:


> Episode VIII pushed back from May to December 15
> 
> Link removed
> 
> saw this coming from _miles_ away



I think it is more to do with knowing what worked and what didn't. They evidently played it safe with the first instalment but understanding what fans hoped to see and like should allow them to be a bit more adventurous. 

I'm guessing they will make tweaks to the script to focus more on the group dynamics (what people enjoyed) and focus on rounding out the characters (addressing the complaint that Rey lacked flaws). I feel that they were worried about creating a character that alienated fans so they side skipped much of the flaws capable of aggravating the audience.


----------



## BlazingInferno (Jan 21, 2016)

Rewrites can be good...and bad too. Watch FN-2199 (aka TR-8R) take Phasma's job


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 21, 2016)

He already has


----------



## Suigetsu (Jan 21, 2016)

Always shit taste *Gunners*, always shit taste with you.

They making tweaks on the script cause they want it to actually sell in Asia, unlike the current one.
And also clearly cause new director may actually have creativity unlike jj hackams which is an obedient studio dog.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 22, 2016)

Lol Suigetsu called me a manchild in a revenge neg.

Here is the thing dude. If everyone you talk to is continuously tell you that "you suck and your opinions are awful", it probably means that "you suck and your opinions are awful."


----------



## Bender (Jan 22, 2016)

Good lord please don't make Finn gay for Poe. There's enough gay appealing types like CP-3O. 

I like Finn X Rey possibility.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2016)

I dont think there will be a Rey pairing in the new trilogy


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2016)

so we discuss SW in this thread now or in the TFA thread ?


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 22, 2016)

Star Wars can be discussed in this thread I guess. The TFA thread will probably start to die off before too long since the movie has been out for more than a month.


----------



## Harbour (Jan 23, 2016)

So rewrites? Less Luke for more gayass Poe? Thanks, no.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jan 23, 2016)

Harbour said:


> So rewrites? Less Luke for more gayass Poe? Thanks, no.



Jay Jay wrote them into a corner.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jan 23, 2016)

That's funny Suigetsu went on a repping spree so he could neg me again.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 23, 2016)




----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 23, 2016)

finn and rey are actually really cute

but all these feminazis are all "omg women dont need no men blahblah empowermnet but MAKE FINN AND POE GAY I NEED MUH REPRESENTATION" 

like shut the hell up


----------



## Stunna (Jan 23, 2016)

I mean,

it's not "feminazism" to not want Rey to end up with someone

I would have been disappointed had Furiosa ended up with Max


----------



## Pilaf (Jan 24, 2016)

Who else thinks Snoke is gonna be Yoda-sized in the flesh?


----------



## Mider T (Jan 24, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I mean,
> 
> it's not "feminazism" to not want Rey to end up with someone
> 
> I would have been disappointed had Furiosa ended up with Max



Why?  She clearly had the hots for him.


----------



## Zeta42 (Jan 24, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I mean,
> 
> it's not "feminazism" to not want Rey to end up with someone


Normal Jedi don't fall in love. No romance subplot for Rey.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 24, 2016)

Uh, Jedi of the _Republic_ didn't fall in love. You don't seriously think Luke followed and enforced the exact same dogma as his predecessors... do you?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 24, 2016)

When did Rey become a "normal Jedi"


----------



## Mider T (Jan 24, 2016)

When did Rey become a Jedi at all?


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Because of her skills Rey can become a jedi whenever she wants. Stupid Mider.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 24, 2016)

Stunna said:


> I mean,
> 
> it's not "feminazism" to not want Rey to end up with someone
> 
> I would have been disappointed had Furiosa ended up with Max



whats ur personal preference on rey's romance options fam


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

prefer no romance at all for any of the 3 new leads 


romance just eats up screen time


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 24, 2016)

Weiss said:


> prefer no romance at all for any of the 3 new leads
> 
> 
> romance just eats up screen time


that must be why felicity is your favourite character, because she's so uninvolved in and distanced from terrible romance that eats up screen time


----------



## Atlas (Jan 24, 2016)

Oh, snap!
**


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> that must be why felicity is your favourite character, because she's so uninvolved in and distanced from terrible romance that eats up screen time


3/10 bait 


if they dropped all the romance then maybe Arrow could turn from trash to slightly less trash


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Weiss said:


> prefer no romance at all for any of the 3 new leads
> 
> 
> romance just eats up screen time



If the writer is capable of nicely placing into content then romance in a show/film isn't all that much of a problem.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

any time spent on romance can be better spent on additional lightsaber duel time


----------



## Stunna (Jan 24, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> whats ur personal preference on rey's romance options fam


seeing as how her options are Finn, Kylo or Poe (?) atm, I prefer either Finn or no one. I'd be fine with either; it's not like romance is a foreign element to a Star Wars picture.


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Weiss said:


> any time spent on romance can be better spent on additional lightsaber duel time



Eh, I wouldn't recommend it. Remember the long ass duel between Anakin and Obi in Episode III? Had such an epic start but such a sloppy ending. It's the same with Episode I-Phantom Mean
Menace.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 24, 2016)

Weiss said:


> 3/10 bait



oh, they call pointing out contradictions "bait" now?

that's awesome, now i can never be wrong instead of almost never being wrong


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

I know everyone here hates everything about the PT so I wont say that I liked the duels in RotS 




> contradiction


there was none


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Shut the hell up Luc. 


Take your shitposting e-thug ass elsewhere.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

its ok, Luc cant help himself


----------



## Stunna (Jan 24, 2016)

Weiss said:


> I know everyone here hates everything about the PT


I            don't.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2016)

Stunna 



 but did you like anything in PT _other_ then the music ?


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Off-topic 

Any of you guys got the canon SW comic books by Marvel (Shattered Empire, Darth Vader). Saw some last week at local bookstore but I sadden to say I was broke friend at time (still am).


----------



## Stunna (Jan 24, 2016)

I do, Flutter.

Not much.

But yes.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 24, 2016)

..I like a little Romance 

However, I don't think Rey/Finn will be successfully pulled off.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 24, 2016)

Can be or will be?


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 24, 2016)

will be

I don't think it's an impossible endeavor, but I simply lack faith in the pairing. Finn's crush was played off as something "adorable" in FA . But as characters change, who knows.


----------



## Bender (Jan 24, 2016)

Romancd is. Sub-value for me when it comes to films. First it's the script and if enough room then I content with romance.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 27, 2016)

Link removed


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 27, 2016)

> Universal’s The Mummy reboot, starring Tom Cruise



i didn't even hear about this

this is sad

also



> Jumanji reboot



guys, guys. guys. you just had the best box office year EVER. would you like to try investing in original IPs? do you really think rebooting the mummy or jumanji is gonna get you the next jurassic world? the revenant is 3 hours long, R-rated, features leo cutting open a horse and sleeping in it, and its budget ballooned to $135 million, but it is _still_ gonna make money

do something different, for crying out loud


----------



## Stunna (Jan 27, 2016)

Pirates of the Caribbean 5 tho


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 27, 2016)

Stunna said:


> Pirates of the Caribbean 5 tho



i don't mind that cuz it's a sequel rather than a reboot, so it's just continuing a money train, rather than trying to resurrect something that was profitable decades ago based on some flawed perception of brand power (instead of using that desperation to invest in a new idea)

PotC 4 sure did suck, though


----------



## Stunna (Jan 27, 2016)

tbh all of them except for CotBP suck to some extent

series is still a guilty pleasure tho


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 27, 2016)

Stunna said:


> tbh all of them except for CotBP suck to some extent
> 
> series is still a guilty pleasure tho



idk, dead man's chest has problems but it's a fun swashbuckler

at world's end is the first one where the problems are overwhelming


----------



## Stunna (Jan 27, 2016)

I think all of them are fun swashbucklers

still p bad tho. In a loveable way


----------



## Rindaman (Jan 30, 2016)

Hope they let Finn do more than collect L's in this one. 


No faith tho considering he'll still be  in a coma.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 30, 2016)

He's going to be more physical, bruh!


----------



## Rindaman (Jan 30, 2016)

Getting your ass kicked is a very physical.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 31, 2016)

And if anyone needed confirmation that Captain Phasma would return or not because she might have died after the Starkiller Base exploded, Gwendoline Christie confirmed she is back.

Guess that makes Sakura's punch Bijuudama++ level, look at how many monsters she was able to take down compared to Kiba's attack.


----------



## Lucaniel (Jan 31, 2016)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> And if anyone needed confirmation that Captain Phasma would return or not because she might have died after the Starkiller Base exploded, Gwendoline Christie confirmed she is back.
> 
> Guess that makes Sakura's punch Bijuudama++ level, look at how many monsters she was able to take down compared to Kiba's attack.



ugh, why? 

if you're literally gonna put a character in the trash...


----------



## Stunna (Jan 31, 2016)

p sure we already knew Phasma was coming back

I don't see the problem with that


----------



## Vault (Jan 31, 2016)

The main question is TR-8R coming back


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 31, 2016)

Vault said:


> The main question is TR-8R coming back



obviously 

disney is gonna milk the shit out of that 


theyve already come out with stormtrooper plushies that say  "traitor!" and sell actual action figures based off of that particular trooper


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 31, 2016)

Vault said:


> The main question is TR-8R coming back



He's honestly a more interesting character.


----------



## Stunna (Jan 31, 2016)

no he isn't

shut yo' meme-lovin' ass up


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jan 31, 2016)

Stunna said:


> no he isn't
> 
> shut yo' meme-lovin' ass up



Trooper who has history with Finn isn't more interesting than basic bitch in chrome suit?


----------



## Stunna (Jan 31, 2016)

Going by the movies, we've no reason to think he has a personal history with Finn; he just identified him as a traitor. (I don't care about the EU; I'm judging the movie on its own merits.)

Meanwhile, Phasma is a high-ranking stormtrooper with a badass suit of armor played by Gwendoline Christie.


----------



## A. Waltz (Jan 31, 2016)

phasma didn't do shit

she tried to sound all tough like some feminazi but then got tied up and exploited by a janitor

a good lol @ feminazis but still very fucking useless

they better not waste time hyping her up just to disappoint like she did. dont give a darn that she was in game of thrones


----------



## Stunna (Jan 31, 2016)

"tried to sound tough like some feminazi"

are you an idiot?

that sounds like something an idiot would say.


----------



## BlazingInferno (Jan 31, 2016)

What the hell has gotten into Waltz all of a sudden  Never seen him/her act this way before.


----------



## Rukia (Jan 31, 2016)

Phasma was one of the biggest disappointments of 2015.


----------



## Catalyst75 (Feb 1, 2016)

Rukia said:


> Phasma was one of the biggest disappointments of 2015.



Dudes, people hyped up Boba Fett just because he looked cool and led Vader to Han and Co, only to be sent flying into the side of a hover-boat and devoured by a Sarlacc by a blind Han.

Phasma was tackled by a Wookie.


----------



## Suigetsu (Feb 1, 2016)

Catalyst75 said:


> Dudes, people hyped up Boba Fett just because he looked cool and led Vader to Han and Co, only to be sent flying into the side of a hover-boat and devoured by a Sarlacc by a blind Han.
> 
> Phasma was tackled by a Wookie.



Bobba Fett had prescence and was a key element to set things in motion. The words he chose and how he interacted with vader was a part of it too.

Now look at the traitor guy, he even has a comic now and is being turned cannon...

Bobba fett's are not made, they just happen.


----------



## tari101190 (Feb 1, 2016)




----------



## ~Gesy~ (Feb 1, 2016)




----------



## Stunna (Feb 1, 2016)

technically, Luke had 3 years of self-taught training before his first duel

but yeah


----------



## Pilaf (Feb 1, 2016)

Vault said:


> The main question is TR-8R coming back



Nines' official bio lists his status as 'wounded'.


----------



## Gilgamesh (Feb 2, 2016)

Suigetsu said:


> Bobba Fett had prescence and was a key element to set things in motion. The words he chose and how he interacted with vader was a part of it too.
> 
> Now look at the traitor guy, he even has a comic now and is being turned cannon...
> 
> Bobba fett's are not made, they just happen.



lol Boba had no presence at all.

Jango on the other hand killed and fought Jedi, Boba on the other hand did fuck all.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Feb 2, 2016)

Pilaf said:


> Nines' official bio lists his status as 'wounded'.



Cyborg time!


----------



## Lucaniel (Feb 2, 2016)

Stunna said:


> p sure we already knew Phasma was coming back
> 
> I don't see the problem with that


of course you don't, you contrarian homothug


----------



## Shark Skin (Feb 2, 2016)

Hadn't Kennedy confirmed that Christie would be back for EP. VIII ages ago? Meh, guess its best to hear it straight from Christie herself.


----------



## Stunna (Feb 2, 2016)

Yes, they are.

Not my problem if you haven't noticed it.


----------



## dream (Feb 2, 2016)

People want her back?


----------



## Lucaniel (Feb 2, 2016)

Dream said:


> People want her back?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 2, 2016)

more people want tr8r more than her because hes a hot new meme as opposed to phasma who's a literally who?

At least she went to Valhalla shiny and chrome

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 2, 2016)

for the record neither should return of course


----------



## Atlas (Feb 2, 2016)

Leave the walking trash can out of this.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 2, 2016)

I hated her in GoT and I hated her here


----------



## Zeta42 (Feb 3, 2016)

Phasma better not be Rey's mother.


----------



## Mider T (Feb 3, 2016)

Zeta42 said:


> Phasma better not be Rey's mother.



Where the fuck did that come from?


----------



## Stunna (Feb 3, 2016)

Right?


----------



## Zeta42 (Feb 4, 2016)

Mider T said:


> Where the fuck did that come from?


Well, if Palpatine is her dad, somebody has to be her mom, right?


----------



## RAGING BONER (Feb 4, 2016)

Zeta42 said:


> Well, if Palpatine is her dad, somebody has to be her mom, right?



bro...BRO!

she woulda been like 2 years old!


----------



## Pilaf (Feb 5, 2016)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Cyborg time!



Wouldn't even have to take it that far, really. Assuming the First Order combat armor is manufactured quite a bit better than the Galactic Empire's shit, and that bacta technology has also been improved in 30 years, and he could return fully biological and healed up for a rematch later.


----------



## A. Waltz (Feb 5, 2016)

Zeta42 said:


> Well, if Palpatine is her dad, somebody has to be her mom, right?



true

plus phasma's armor is made of a naboo airship. probably belonged to sugar daddy papitine  

why else would she have a fancy armor made out of a rare naboo airship artifact?


----------



## Stunna (Feb 5, 2016)

>Palpatine used the Force to conceive Anakin
>Palpatine needs a woman to have conceived Rey


----------



## A. Waltz (Feb 5, 2016)

that depends if rey isn't a chosen-by-the-force hero.

tbh i kind of hope she's just a random plebian that got into this mess by the will of the force but wasn't necessarily the "chosen one" cuz that sounds too mary-sue, just as how anakin being born from the force was very gary-sue or whatever the equivalent word is

wait and when did palpatine use the force to conceive anakin

was this in a novel or something

nope this can't be.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 5, 2016)

Anakin was the chosen one

Luke was just his son who is powerful by virtue of that

rey is continuing the dynasty


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Feb 5, 2016)

Stunna said:


> >Palpatine used the Force to conceive Anakin
> >Palpatine needs a woman to have conceived Rey



Anne still came out of someone's vagina though, he didn't just be....right?


----------



## Shark Skin (Feb 5, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> Anne still came out of someone's vagina though, he didn't just be....right?



Yes, of course... but we never actually saw it happen did we?


----------



## Stunna (Feb 6, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> Anne still came out of someone's vagina though, he didn't just be....right?


...

w-what Shark Skin said


----------



## Stunna (Feb 6, 2016)

shut'cho ass up before I delete this convo.


----------



## Pilaf (Feb 6, 2016)

Why are y'all talking about Rey as if she's Palpatine's daughter? Grand-daughter makes more sense to me. She would have been born after he got thrown down the reactor tube. There must have been a generation in between for the theory to work.


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Feb 6, 2016)

Pilaf said:


> Why are y'all talking about Rey as if she's Palpatine's daughter? Grand-daughter makes more sense to me. She would have been born after he got thrown down the reactor tube. There must have been a generation in between for the theory to work.




Yeah, jokes aside, i'm not sure where Zeta's getting these crack theories from.

Her being a Skywalker would be cool; but too obvious. I hope her parents were simply soldiers who died in battle.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Feb 6, 2016)

Rey Antilles; daughter of one of the greatest star fighter pilots ever...Lukes childhood bro. fellow tatooine womprat smasher and only other survivor of the battle of Yavin IV.

plus, Rey Antilles sounds p cool.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 10, 2016)

It's on.



> *Star Wars 8 Has Officially Started Filming*
> 
> With the new Star Wars trilogy off to a strong start and its Anthology spinoff series beginning this December, Disney and Lucasfilm had the benefit of going into these knowing from the get-go that they wanted to tell a much larger story than one that just spans three movies.
> 
> ...




EDIT:

[youtube]GQQMLE4FuIQ[/youtube]


----------



## Rindaman (Mar 30, 2016)

> *john_boyega*The hardest thing about playing Finn was holding back all the time. Trying to be led by fear rather than strength was a tricky balance to ride without coming across as the pushover! Everyone expected acrobatics and a fully rogue badass character. (BORING) heroes are not born in one movie. Wait for the trilogy. Finn ain't playing no more.



Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice , fuck  the peace sign , load the choppa and let it rain on you.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 30, 2016)

Finn gonna clean up that base something fierce! just you wait


----------



## RAGING BONER (Mar 30, 2016)

it'd be funny if the opening scene to the Force Strikes Back is FN-2187 sweeping the halls of the resistance base...


----------



## RAGING BONER (Mar 30, 2016)

need to make him a cyborg after K-Ren cut his spine open...brother needs an upgrade.


----------



## Gunners (Mar 30, 2016)

People shouldn't have been fooled the first time around. His character made sense as he was an individual who had experienced what the First Order was capable and an individual who just broke free of years of brainwashing. 

I'd expect his confidence to develop over the series as opposed to being the complete package from the get go. What matters more is his innate qualities, which they did a good job of showing.


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 30, 2016)

Why is this film being released only two years after _Episode VII?_ In the previous two trilogies, three years passed between the release of each film, so it seems to me that the producers are rushing through the production of the films.


----------



## Kuromaku (Mar 31, 2016)

Because money. Whenever you see a film studio make a decision, you can safely say that money is the answer. They plan to milk this cash cow's tits dry. For better or for worse, that's all there is to it.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Mar 31, 2016)

we're also getting an anthology film each year in between releases...so yeah, money.


----------



## Mider T (Mar 31, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why is this film being released only two years after _Episode VII?_ In the previous two trilogies, three years passed between the release of each film, so it seems to me that the producers are rushing through the production of the films.



Why are you complaining that we don't have to wait as long?


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Mar 31, 2016)

Mider T said:


> Why are you complaining that we don't have to wait as long?



Because I fear that the shorter duration between films shall cause the films to be of lower quality than earlier films, and it is a break from tradition; what reason could there possibly be to defy a tradition that was upheld in both of the previous trilogies?


----------



## Mider T (Mar 31, 2016)

It doesn't and shouldn't take 3 years to make a Star Wars movie anymore, its 2016.  Are you going to complain the movies don't come out in May anymore?


----------



## Stunna (Apr 10, 2016)




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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 10, 2016)

LUL               .


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## Lance (Apr 10, 2016)

Why are Star War films not under Comic Book Theater? 

Anyways, really looking forward to Hamil doing Hamil things in Episode 8.


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## Vault (Apr 10, 2016)

Why would they? Their original source material isn't from comics though


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## Stunna (Apr 10, 2016)

yeah lolwut


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## ~Gesy~ (Apr 10, 2016)

Stunna said:


>



Jedi training


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## Rukia (Apr 10, 2016)

Lance said:


> Anyways, really looking forward to Hamil doing Hamil things in Episode 8.


What the hell does that mean?  He is going to bring his Joker voice?


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## Skaddix (Apr 10, 2016)

Fake Geek. Star Wars in Comic Section


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## ~Gesy~ (Apr 10, 2016)

Do you think Luke Skywalker will get in on the action in this trilogy?

I can see him being used to hype Snoke.


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## Rukia (Apr 10, 2016)

I hope he dies of old age in the next movie.


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## Vault (Apr 10, 2016)

If Luke jobs to Snoke naturally I'm out

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rukia (Apr 10, 2016)

Luke shouldn't even be in the movie.  Let the new characters shine!  Good grief, let go of the past!


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## Gunners (Apr 10, 2016)

He'll probably deal with Snoke, whilst Rey deals with Kylo. Masters vs Apprentices. 

I'm guessing his role in the story will be finding the will to fight again. I can understand why he secluded himself as the grief would have left him open to corruption.


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## Skaddix (Apr 10, 2016)

We better see Luke deliver in combat at least once in this trilogy.


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## Vault (Apr 10, 2016)

He is gonna die a peasants death  anything else other than OP Luke. I'm out

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Apr 10, 2016)

Rukia stfu

Luke deserves to be in these movies 10x more than Han or Leia did

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rukia (Apr 10, 2016)

I found his presence really distracting at the end of the Force Awakens.  It was kind of unintentionally hilarious.  And let's face it.  Mark Hamil didn't age well.  He's simply too ugly now.  I don't want to look at him for extended periods of time.

Hopefully he has a minor role in the next movie.  And Rey goes off to handle things on her own.


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## Stunna (Apr 10, 2016)

b8           harder


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## ~Gesy~ (Apr 10, 2016)

The good guys taking an L this  movie; only to come back harder the next seems more sensible to me.


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## Rukia (Apr 10, 2016)

~Gesy~ said:


> The good guys taking an L this  movie only to come back harder the next seems more sensible to me.


So copying A New Hope wasn't enough?  They are going to copy The Empire Strikes Back with part 2?


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## Stunna (Apr 10, 2016)

part 2 being the darkest installment would be a more forgivable lift from the original trilogy since there's a precedent before Star Wars touched it

I expect Luke will die at the end


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## ~Gesy~ (Apr 10, 2016)

Rukia said:


> So copying A New Hope wasn't enough?  They are going to copy The Empire Strikes Back with part 2?



Yup! 

But I feel it's the better move, it'll make the opposition seem more threatening.


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 10, 2016)

Vault said:


> He is gonna die a peasants death  anything else other than OP Luke. I'm out



Imma hafta agree wif Señor Vorto here...

people been waiting 35+ years for Luke to whoop some major ass. If he doesn't tax Snoke at least to a mutual death then_fuck this bullshit


/TablesWillBeFlipped

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Banhammer (Apr 10, 2016)

THEORY


Luke has become the most powerful force user in the universe. 

That means that his actions have the greatest consequences. When griefstruck for his loss and failure, Luke secludes himself in a lost planet, not because he's hiding from the galaxy, but because he's protecting the galaxy from _himself_. His most minor over reaction in grief could destroy cities. His leaning on the Dark Side could cast shadows no power in the universe could face.


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## Huey Freeman (Apr 10, 2016)

I just want to see one trooper or bounty hunter or Merc useful on film other than to sell toys


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 11, 2016)

Rey will solo Snoke


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## The World (Apr 11, 2016)

if Snoke is Plagueis, not likely


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## The World (Apr 11, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skib0IRSffY[/YOUTUBE]

I doubt these scenes would have made the movie any better 

maybe fill some gaping plot holes


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## Thespacelord (Apr 12, 2016)

I like the Darth Plageuis idea, but Disney seems to want to ignore anything related to the prequels timeline.

You need only take a glance at the content that has come out 2014 and onwards.




The World said:


> if Snoke is Plagueis, not likely


That wouldn't save him from fairy tail esqe power up's


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## The World (Apr 15, 2016)




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## Dragon D. Luffy (Apr 16, 2016)

I wanna see Luke kicking Kylo's ass.

I mean, doesn't have to be his final defeat because Kylo is reserved to Rey/Finn, but make it a "student meets former master" moment where Kylo thinks he'll just kill Luke like he did with Han only to get his own ass handed to him on a plate.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Swarmy (Apr 16, 2016)

Rukia said:


> And let's face it.  Mark Hamil didn't age well.  He's simply too ugly now.  I don't want to look at him for extended periods of time.



Someone needs glasses


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## A. Waltz (Apr 16, 2016)

harrison ford didn't age well.......he has that soggy chin jaw mouth thing now.

i dont get why people complain about carrie not aging well, she looks way better than harrison ford. and everyone's like 'harrison ford aged so well!' umm

i like aged mark hamill. sure, he's no sir alec guinness but he gets the job done.


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## Rukia (Apr 16, 2016)

lol, the idea that anyone could beat Plagueis.


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## Skaddix (Apr 16, 2016)

There is no point in watching Kylo fight Luke. Kylo with 20 years of training and the blood of the Skywalkers got rekt by a noob in Rey. A fight would be Luke force bitch slapping Kylo into a KO.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> harrison ford didn't age well.......he has that soggy chin jaw mouth thing now.
> 
> i dont get why people complain about carrie not aging well, she looks way better than harrison ford. and everyone's like 'harrison ford aged so well!' umm
> 
> i like aged mark hamill. sure, he's no sir alec guinness but he gets the job done.



Harrison Ford is in his 73, Carrie Fisher is 59.


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## DemonDragonJ (Apr 17, 2016)

I really do not like the fact that Luke now has facial hair, as almost all artwork of him after _Return of the Jedi_ portrayed him as remaining clean-shaven; why would the makers of this film do the opposite of the established portrayals?

Is there any possibility that the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy will ever be released, again? The executives at Disney and Lucasfilm must be aware that there is a demand to them, and that they could make a great amount of money by doing so; plus, recent releases of _Beauty and the Beast_ and _The Lion King_ contained both the original theatrical releases as well as the "special edition" releases of those films, so I see no reason why the same could not be done for the _Star Wars_ films, as well.


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## Stunna (Apr 17, 2016)

DDJ           pls


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## A. Waltz (Apr 17, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I really do not like the fact that Luke now has facial hair, as almost all artwork of him after _Return of the Jedi_ portrayed him as remaining clean-shaven; why would the makers of this film do the opposite of the established portrayals?
> 
> Is there any possibility that the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy will ever be released, again? The executives at Disney and Lucasfilm must be aware that there is a demand to them, and that they could make a great amount of money by doing so; plus, recent releases of _Beauty and the Beast_ and _The Lion King_ contained both the original theatrical releases as well as the "special edition" releases of those films, so I see no reason why the same could not be done for the _Star Wars_ films, as well.



they did it so it mirrored old obi wan's facial hair

because the writers are completely unoriginal and have to cling to the past like the OTfags they are.

putting it frankly, they are pussies. each and every one of them. afraid to lose out on a couple million  by stepping too far apart from the tested and true.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A. Waltz (Apr 17, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> There is no point in watching Kylo fight Luke. Kylo with 20 years of training and the blood of the Skywalkers got rekt by a noob in Rey. A fight would be Luke force bitch slapping Kylo into a KO.



i just imagined kylo trying some new sith trick on luke, and luke just swaths it away like a boss.  like in empire strikes back or reutnr of a jedi where he's just wearing all black and just acts like a boss in front of darth vader. and then he can mirror vader and be like "the force is strong in you. but you are not a sith yet." 

but old luke w/ beard i feel like he can't be as badass and menacing as he was with that cyborg look in his eyes during the originals. that androgynous kind of look was what made it so mysterious sort of.....though i suppose it could still work even with the facial hair if he just wears some slimming black and uses body language to just look menacing yet restrained and masterful af.


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## BlazingInferno (Apr 17, 2016)

Anyone else wanna see how long DDJ can hold his head underwater?



A. Waltz said:


> they did it so it mirrored old obi wan's facial hair
> 
> because the writers are completely unoriginal and have to cling to the past like the OTfags they are.
> 
> putting it frankly, they are pussies. each and every one of them. afraid to lose out on a couple million  by stepping too far apart from the tested and true.



Geez AJ, you need to chill.


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## ~Gesy~ (Apr 17, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I really do not like the fact that Luke now has facial hair, as almost all artwork of him after _Return of the Jedi_ portrayed him as remaining clean-shaven; why would the makers of this film do the opposite of the established portrayals?


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## Lucaniel (Apr 17, 2016)

naw fam u need to not quote that weirdo's shitposts

also luke has unkempt facial hair cuz he an old ass hermit and that's the look for old ass hermits


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## Parallax (Apr 17, 2016)

man stop hating on fun bruh


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## Turrin (Apr 18, 2016)

A. Waltz said:


> putting it frankly, they are pussies. each and every one of them. afraid to lose out on a couple million  by stepping too far apart from the tested and true.


If JJ was solely driven by money he wouldn't have


*Spoiler*: __ 



 killed Han in the first movie. 






DemonDragonJ said:


> I really do not like the fact that Luke now has facial hair, as almost all artwork of him after _Return of the Jedi_ portrayed him as remaining clean-shaven; why would the makers of this film do the opposite of the established portrayals?


The film establishes that Luke has been living as a hermit in search of someone/something, so his haggard appearance fits perfectly w/ that portrayal.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Apr 18, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> There is no point in watching Kylo fight Luke. Kylo with 20 years of training and the blood of the Skywalkers got rekt by a noob in Rey. A fight would be Luke force bitch slapping Kylo into a KO.



But that's exactly what I want to see!


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## Jake CENA (Apr 18, 2016)

What if Luke completely lost his Jedi powers??


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## Turrin (Apr 18, 2016)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> But that's exactly what I want to see!


Based on how desperately Kylo wants to find Luke I'm fairly certain Luke schooled his ass back in the day and he wants revenge. So I'm fairly certain you will get you wish.


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 18, 2016)

isn't luke still the most powerful force user or have disney ignored that too since it would actually mean acknowledging lucas?

rey will probably surpass luke and anakin by the the end of ep9


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## Finalbeta (Apr 18, 2016)

Luke is the ruler of the force


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## Thespacelord (Apr 18, 2016)

[YOUTUBE]gvg9d7_rp1k[/YOUTUBE]

These guys don't even know their own franchise

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 18, 2016)

Thespacelord said:


> [YOUTUBE]gvg9d7_rp1k[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> These guys don't even know their own franchise



Yeah JJ trolling your ass.


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## Stunna (Apr 18, 2016)

>thinking they seriously didn't know who he was talking about


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## BlazingInferno (Apr 18, 2016)

Thespacelord said:


> [YOUTUBE]gvg9d7_rp1k[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> These guys don't even know their own franchise



They're clearly messing with him


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## Thespacelord (Apr 18, 2016)

Still do you really think a character known for using midicholorians and lived in the prequel era is going to be allowed into to come back?

Even the f*cking Battlefront game doesn't even have prequel era stories and Clone Wars was cancelled mid-season.

Disney is obviously trying to drown out the Prequel timeline and having a Prequel based character as the villian would go against "the rules".


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## BlazingInferno (Apr 18, 2016)

Thespacelord said:


> Still do you really think a character known for using midicholorians and lived in the prequel era is going to be allowed into to come back?
> 
> Even the f*cking Battlefront game doesn't even have prequel era stories *and Clone Wars was cancelled mid-season.*
> 
> Disney is obviously trying to drown out the Prequel timeline and having a Prequel based character as the villian would go against "the rules".



It was on a different network when Disney bought the rights, how often do you see a Cartoon Network original show migrating to another kids channel? Also, if they tried to bury anything in the prequel era, why did they bring back Ahsoka for Rebels?


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## Wan (Apr 18, 2016)

I really couldn't care less if Plagueis has anything to do with the sequel trilogy.


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## Turrin (Apr 19, 2016)

Thespacelord said:


> Still do you really think a character known for using midicholorians and lived in the prequel era is going to be allowed into to come back?
> 
> Even the f*cking Battlefront game doesn't even have prequel era stories and Clone Wars was cancelled mid-season.
> .



Yes I do. Firstly JJ has a great deal of respect for Lucas and the Prequels. He is not, I repeat is not, someone who hates or wishes to disregard the prequels. 

As far as the midicholorians thing goes, I think associating the main villain's goals and powers w/ the concept of midicholorians could be intentional as it would give Disney the chance to invalidate the thinking that you need a high midicholorian count to use the force. For example Snoke may be interested in Ray and Ren, because they come from a family w/ a high midicholorian count, but his plans may end up largely foiled by someone who had no midicholorian count (Finn) utilizing the force. Thus acknowledging the concept, but at the same time proving it's flawed, which is something the fans would rather see happen even more than simply ignoring the concept entirely.



> Disney is obviously trying to drown out the Prequel timeline and having a Prequel based character as the villian would go against "the rules"


The fact that they had Prequel Obi Wan's voice in Rey's flashback basically disproves this. Also the fact that they've been open about the fact that they thought about having Hayden come back to do Anakin's force ghost. They also clearly acknowledge prequel concepts in the TFA, like when Ren talks about using a Clone army, And so on..

There is no mandate from Disney that the movie will be ignoring prequel concepts entirely. Obviously they want to focus more on what made the series successful and that is primarily elements from the original trilogy, but nothing indicates they are outright ignoring the prequels.

Edit: Honestly at this point I'm fairly certain that Snoke is Plaguies. And that Palpatine kept him alive to try and learn his technique.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Thespacelord (Apr 19, 2016)

Turrin said:


> Yes I do. Firstly JJ has a great deal of respect for Lucas and the Prequels. He is not, I repeat is not, someone who hates or wishes to disregard the prequels.
> 
> As far as the midicholorians thing goes, I think associating the main villain's goals and powers w/ the concept of midicholorians could be intentional as it would give Disney the chance to invalidate the thinking that you need a high midicholorian count to use the force. For example Snoke may be interested in Ray and Ren, because they come from a family w/ a high midicholorian count, but his plans may end up largely foiled by someone who had no midicholorian count (Finn) utilizing the force. Thus acknowledging the concept, but at the same time proving it's flawed, which is something the fans would rather see happen even more than simply ignoring the concept entirely.
> 
> ...



J.J Abrams doesn't have as much power as you think, He directed the first movie and that's about it.
Kathleen Kennedy and Disney pretty much rejected Lucas and don't want his involvement.

Their hasn't been hardly any Prequel era content post Disney
The Comic series (made up of the most popular OT Characters), 
Television (Clone Wars stopped mid season and Rebels came on)
Video Games (well pretty much all the games from 1313, Darth Maul have disapeared. and the revamped Battlefront has only OT era content, despite older games being based in both eras)

On top of that aside from a returning voice actor and ghost (which never even made it on screen so it's not relevent), the original actor isn't even around anymore so it's not a fair comparison.  And it's not like Obi-Wan had a role in the new movie or even a visible Cameo.

Plus all movies are either OT tie-ins (Han Solo, Boba Fett, Rogue One)

The Prequel era under Disney is basically what JP2 and 3 we're to Jurassic World, (canon but irrelevant)

They are afraid of offending viewers who hated the Prequels by making them relevant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 19, 2016)

Thespacelord said:


> J.J Abrams doesn't have as much power as you think, He directed the first movie and that's about it.
> Kathleen Kennedy and Disney pretty much rejected Lucas and don't want his involvement.
> 
> Their hasn't been hardly any Prequel era content post Disney
> ...



TFA itself has references to the prequels, and you can't write off Obi Wan's appearance just because we didn't visibly see him on screen. And yes the OT Obi Wan actor was dead, but that's not a good excuse as it only demonstrates my point that Disney is willing to allow elements from the prequels into the new films if it's for the sake of plot. Just like they would allow Plaguies in if it was for the sake of good story telling. Also Plaquies has already been mentioned in modern cannon, in the Tarkin Novel.  Finally Plaguies isn't some big prequel concept, he is mentioned once or twice (can't remember) and that's it. Even from the OT, we know that Palpatine must have had a master, at some point all the prequels do is put a name too him, and explain he had the ability to manipulate life.

Fuck TFA even brings back Plaguies theme when introducing Snoke, so that right there should tell you they are not above bringing in elements from the Prequels relating to Plaguies.



> They are afraid of offending viewers who hated the Prequels by making them relevant.


Whose going to be offended by them bringing back Plaguies?


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 19, 2016)

"Snoke" wouldn't be capable of completing Kylo Ren's training if he wasn't a master of the Dark Side himself...

and since I doubt the Emperor would allow such a powerful rival to exist he must have been powerful enough to conceal himself from him. 

The only guy really able to do something like that would be Palpatines own master...who, i might add, was only _mentioned once_ in the PT, not elaborated upon; therefor they can do whatever they want with the character.


that Snoke is just some new random dude who learned all these powers and events from ages ago is laughable. It's fucking Plagueis.


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## Skaddix (Apr 20, 2016)

Especially since Snoke already said he was around to watch Vader Fail. Seeing the quality of the Inquistors available for the Emperor in Rebels. Yeah I am not seeing that bunch rise to the occasion. Snoke is clearly no Ezra. Unless he is faking his hologram.


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 20, 2016)

> Still do you really think a character known for using midicholorians and lived in the prequel era is going to be allowed into to come back?
> 
> Even the f*cking Battlefront game doesn't even have prequel era stories and Clone Wars was cancelled mid-season.
> 
> Disney is obviously trying to drown out the Prequel timeline and having a Prequel based character as the villian would go against "the rules".



Is that why they mentioned the sith in TFA?


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2016)

I think it's also pretty clear that Snoke is the one in the Bacta tank from Rogue One. Palpatine probably kept Plaguies alive in the tank after bringing him to the brink of death so that he could learn his secrets. Than when Vadar killed Palpatine, Plaguies was able to escape and take over the remnant of the empire. This would also keep in line w/ Vader maintaining balance as the chosen one. By turning on the Jedi he was able to balance both sides leaving 2 Masters on each (Yoda + Obi) & (Himself + Palpatine), than in Return of the Jedi he'd also bring balance again eliminating himself and Palpatine, and leaving Luke, but also in doing so freeing Plaguies.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 20, 2016)

How do people still not get that bringing balance to the Force means destroying the Sith, not leaving the number of Jedi and Sith equal?



> Many fans incorrectly assume that balance refers to an equal mix of both light and dark side users. However, as George Lucas explains in the introductory documentary for the VHS version A New Hope, Special Edition, this is not the case:
> 
> "[...] Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."
> 
> In an interview, Lucas compared the difference between the light and dark sides as being like the difference between a symbiotic relationship and a cancer. A symbiotic relationship is one which benefits both parties and in which neither is harmed, whereas a cancer takes without giving back, eventually causing the death of both parties



If Snoke is Plagueis, then he can no longer be a Sith because otherwise the whole Prophecy thing does not make sense. Besides which, why would Sheev take the risk of leaving his master, himself a very powerful Sith lord, alive? Given the propensity for betrayal among the Sith, it would have been risky to leave him alive, even in a limited state. Besides which, Plagueis being gone gels with Palps needing time to research his secrets (as he revealed to Anakin), as well as a mention in a canon novel that Sheev later grew to better understand his master after he became emperor.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> How do people still not get that bringing balance to the Force means destroying the Sith, not leaving the number of Jedi and Sith equal?
> 
> 
> 
> If Snoke is Plagueis, then he can no longer be a Sith because otherwise the whole Prophecy thing does not make sense. Besides which, why would Sheev take the risk of leaving his master, himself a very powerful Sith lord, alive? Given the propensity for betrayal among the Sith, it would have been risky to leave him alive, even in a limited state. Besides which, Plagueis being gone gels with Palps needing time to research his secrets (as he revealed to Anakin), as well as a mention in a canon novel that Sheev later grew to better understand his master after he became emperor.


Firstly this assume Disney, JJ, etc... are going to stay true to that concept, which they may not. Secondly I'm fairly certain George has said contradictory things about this throughout the years. Thirdly even if we take that quote as face value it's saying that Vader brought balanc to the force by eliminating the Sith, which was important because it did away w/ Evil specifically. The fact that Snoke saw the rise and fall of the empire, means an evil force user was still left alive, and if by bring balance Vader was meant to eliminate evil force users entirely he failed. So ether Disney is going to go w/ a different interpretation of the prophecy, namely the one I shared above, they are going to play it off as Vader failed or succeeded in an abstract way (saving Luke who than trained Rey), or they are just going to ignore the prophecy entirely.

My point being is that in the grand scheme of things Snoke being a Sith or not being a Sith doesn't matter, because they are going to have to provide a different explanation for the prophecy (or are going to ignore it) to explain Snoke anyway.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 21, 2016)

Turrin said:


> Firstly this assume Disney, JJ, etc... are going to stay true to that concept, which they may not. Secondly I'm fairly certain George has said contradictory things about this throughout the years. Thirdly even if we take that quote as face value it's saying that Vader brought balanc to the force by eliminating the Sith, which was important because it did away w/ Evil specifically. The fact that Snoke saw the rise and fall of the empire, means an evil force user was still left alive, and if by bring balance Vader was meant to eliminate evil force users entirely he failed. So ether Disney is going to go w/ a different interpretation of the prophecy, namely the one I shared above, they are going to play it off as Vader failed or succeeded in an abstract way (saving Luke who than trained Rey), or they are just going to ignore the prophecy entirely.
> 
> My point being is that in the grand scheme of things Snoke being a Sith or not being a Sith doesn't matter, because they are going to have to provide a different explanation for the prophecy (or are going to ignore it) to explain Snoke anyway.



Lucas is remarkably inconsistent about a lot of things. However, his views of morality within SW resemble Taoist concepts of harmony (among other religious and mythological subjects, which the guy seems really into if you read up on him) quite a bit. The Jedi way is about selflessness and balance, with the latter term resembling the concept of harmony. The Sith, more than just being believers in darker things like selfishness, are outright evil in that instead of flowing with the Force, are outright manipulating for their own benefit, hence the imbalance in the Force. Had using the Dark Side meant simply being a selfish prick, that would have been one thing, but the Sith went out of their way to throw the Force into imbalance.

That's why it's so important that rather than evil as a concept itself being completely vanquished, it was evil in the form of the Sith (and Palpatine as the epitome of this type of evil) that needed to be destroyed. Lucas says in other places that everyone is prone to acts of selfishness, because they're normal people. However, even several otherwise selfish characters (Han, Lando, and Fin, among others) can at the end of the day be counted on to do what's right, because that's the whole idea of morality in the series, that good can triumph over evil even if the latter should continue to exist in some form. By that logic then, Snoke can be malevolent, but he can't be Sith.

Besides which, it would be stupid to ignore the prophecy. You can simply not bring up midichlorians again because they're not all that important. However, given the prominence of the whole prophecy in the context of the prequels, as well as by extension the rest of the series, you simply can't ignore it. The Sith had to be destroyed, and Anakin did his job. It's also best not to change the interpretation of the prophecy given that Lucas, the original creator of the franchise himself clarified its meaning. Like it or not, it's one thing to write a new story without his input, it's another to simply piss on one of the core parts of what he did write.

And let's face it, making it so that Rey is chosen for this task instead of Anakin just makes the cries of MaRey Sue seem a little less kneejerk.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 21, 2016)

> *Oscar Isaac on 'Star Wars: Episode VIII': 'It feels like we're making an independent film'*
> 
> From the moment it was announced Rian Johnson would be directing "Star Wars: Episode VIII," fans have been excitedly wondering what kind of special sauce the director of genre-bending films like "Looper" and "Brick" (not to mention a few of the best episodes of "Breaking Bad") will bring to the universe George Lucas created.
> 
> ...


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## Wan (Apr 21, 2016)

>sequel to 3rd highest grossing movie of all time
>"feels like an independent film"

Something doesn't line up


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> Lucas is remarkably inconsistent about a lot of things. However, his views of morality within SW resemble Taoist concepts of harmony (among other religious and mythological subjects, which the guy seems really into if you read up on him) quite a bit. The Jedi way is about selflessness and balance, with the latter term resembling the concept of harmony. The Sith, more than just being believers in darker things like selfishness, are outright evil in that instead of flowing with the Force, are outright manipulating for their own benefit, hence the imbalance in the Force. Had using the Dark Side meant simply being a selfish prick, that would have been one thing, but the Sith went out of their way to throw the Force into imbalance.
> 
> That's why it's so important that rather than evil as a concept itself being completely vanquished, it was evil in the form of the Sith (and Palpatine as the epitome of this type of evil) that needed to be destroyed. Lucas says in other places that everyone is prone to acts of selfishness, because they're normal people. However, even several otherwise selfish characters (Han, Lando, and Fin, among others) can at the end of the day be counted on to do what's right, because that's the whole idea of morality in the series, that good can triumph over evil even if the latter should continue to exist in some form. By that logic then, Snoke can be malevolent, but he can't be Sith.
> .


I'm sorry but there is no difference between what Snoke is doing w/ the force and what Palpatine did with the force. Snoke is not a Han or Lando type character who is simply dabbling in the darkside out of selfishness, he is an ancient evil whose so stepped in the darkside that his body had become more twisted and corrupted than even Palpatine.

If Snoke can exist, than ether the prophecy is being ignored, has yet to be achieved, was achieved but only temporary (Balance was achieved w/ the death of Palpatine/Vader, but was disrupted again w/ the rise of Snoke) or disney fundamentally has a different idea of what the prophecy could mean that they wish to explore.



> Besides which, it would be stupid to ignore the prophecy. You can simply not bring up midichlorians again because they're not all that important. However, given the prominence of the whole prophecy in the context of the prequels, as well as by extension the rest of the series, you simply can't ignore it. The Sith had to be destroyed, and Anakin did his job. It's also best not to change the interpretation of the prophecy given that Lucas, the original creator of the franchise himself clarified its meaning. Like it or not, it's one thing to write a new story without his input, it's another to simply piss on one of the core parts of what he did write.


You act as if "Canon" material hasn't done this before. Remember the Mortis Arc from the Clone Wars, which implied Anakin's role as the chosen one was completely different than destroying the Sith? I think as long as what Diseny chooses to do w/ the prophecy makes sense within the context of the OT/PT than it's fine. And from what we've been told one interpretation is that Anakin was the chosen one because he brought an end to the Sith, but we are also told in the PT, that perhaps the Phrophecy was misinterpreted by Yoda, so the door is open for another interpretation.

Also writing off the prophecy could be as simple as Anakin saving Luke's life, which allowed Luke and Rey to eventually restore the Jedi Order to proper prominence and them being able to work to continually maintain that balance.



Wan said:


> >sequel to 3rd highest grossing movie of all time
> >"feels like an independent film"
> 
> Something doesn't line up


Likely they mean that Episode VIII will focus more on intimate character moments and be paced much slower, versus TFA and OT trilogy which were always major action epics at their heart. This also makes sense if you think about it because in the OT trilogy we ended up skipping most of the main characters training and development through ether the usage of Time-skips or that character already being that good (Han, Obi Wan, etc...) But in Episode VII pretty much all the characters are in need of training; Ren is going to be trained by Snoke at the end, Rey by Luke, and Finn is hurt but it seems likely that he will join the resistance and become a more skilled fighter.


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## Vault (Apr 22, 2016)

If that leaked script is legit? Fucking hell 

 

I'm out, so fucking stupid. Who's writing this shit?


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## BlazingInferno (Apr 22, 2016)

If it is, it could be a good thing. When shit like that leaks, it fucks things up


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 22, 2016)

Vault said:


> If that leaked script is legit? Fucking hell
> 
> 
> 
> I'm out, so fucking stupid. Who's writing this shit?



"No, you are my father".


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## The World (Apr 22, 2016)

> Rey dies and is reanimated by all the force ghosts, but it doesn't quite work right. Luke looks at her and cries "My baby ghoul"!!!


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## strongarm85 (Apr 22, 2016)

Eh, people bitched and moaned about the leaks for Force Awakens, and while many people bemoaned the spoilers, even the ones that turned out accurate, the movie itself turned out pretty good.

In any case, this leak is specifically *not* posted by someone who claims to have seen the script.

The source for the leak instead claims to have talked to several people on the set and in various conversations kind of pieced together Ray's supposed origins. The fact that it seems to coincide with a particularly popular yet hated fan theory. This leak happens to match up with my first impression theory for Ray's origin. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



That fan theory being that Ray is another the "Chosen One", and is a reincarnated Anakin Skywalker. In a way it makes sense, and it explains how she was so talented everything she did in Force Awakens. At the same time it's unexpected. It makes her part of the Skywalker family so to speak, because Luke and Leia, and Kylo Ren are the descendants of her past life, but at the same time, she isn't directly related to anyone.

Furthermore, the explanation given in the spoiler expands on the role of the Chosen One threw-out galactic history. So essentially every time that the Force was out of Balance, and there have in fact been several "Chosen ones". When the force is out of balance, the chosen would be reborn and bring balance to the force.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 22, 2016)

Vault said:


> If that leaked script is legit? Fucking hell
> 
> 
> 
> I'm out, so fucking stupid. Who's writing this shit?



The one that sounds like someone copy-pasted _The Legend of Korra_? I'm hoping it's just a fake made for trolling purposes, but then again, given what kind of stuff professional "artists" have managed to put out...

Plus, it doesn't have the advantage of the 'eternal hero' concept being intertwined with the story from the beginning like _Avatar_ or Moorcock's "Eternal Champion." Instead, eight movies in, we suddenly get this sprung on us? After people already didn't care much for the whole prophecy thing introduced in the prequels? At least that plotline ended with the original trilogy so we could move on.



Turrin said:


> I'm sorry but there is no difference between what Snoke is doing w/ the force and what Palpatine did with the force. Snoke is not a Han or Lando type character who is simply dabbling in the darkside out of selfishness, he is an ancient evil whose so stepped in the darkside that his body had become more twisted and corrupted than even Palpatine.



We don't even really know what Snoke is doing with the Force. We know that he has knowledge of it and its applications, but so far have nothing on whether he's outright manipulating it for his own ends or something else entirely.



> You act as if "Canon" material hasn't done this before. Remember the Mortis Arc from the Clone Wars, which implied Anakin's role as the chosen one was completely different than destroying the Sith? I think as long as what Diseny chooses to do w/ the prophecy makes sense within the context of the OT/PT than it's fine. And from what we've been told one interpretation is that Anakin was the chosen one because he brought an end to the Sith, but we are also told in the PT, that perhaps the Phrophecy was misinterpreted by Yoda, so the door is open for another interpretation.



The ROTS mentions were supposed to indicate that the Jedi were growing doubtful about Anakin and the legitimacy of the prophecy, foreshadowing not only their growing mistrust (and the resulting treatment of Anakin) but also their approach to resolving the whole Sith issue in the following episodes (where they outright manipulate Luke for their own ends and no longer believe that there is any good in Vader, which is resolved when Luke and Anakin prove them wrong at the very end).

As for Mortis, that was just a huge amount of wtfuckery that didn't really go anywhere by itself given that while it foreshadowed later events, what happened there didn't really impact anything.

Fun fact BTW, according to some, one dub had the prophecy translated as restoring "harmony" rather than "balance," which actually fits better with Lucas's intent.


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## DemonDragonJ (Apr 23, 2016)

Why are new _Star Wars_ films now being released in December, instead of May, as was the case with all six of the previous films? What reason was there to break from tradition?


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## Swarmy (Apr 24, 2016)

You guys might already know this but ah well


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## Skaddix (Apr 24, 2016)

No Fucking Reincarnation of Chosen Ones. The problem with Star Wars lately has been Skywalkers do everything. Now we are restricting it to Chosen Ones do everything. So not only are you not relevant if you aren't a Force User, you aren't relevant unless your a Chosen One.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Turrin (Apr 25, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> We don't even really know what Snoke is doing with the Force. We know that he has knowledge of it and its applications, but so far have nothing on whether he's outright manipulating it for his own ends or something else entirely.


What did Palpatine do to manipulate the force? And I only want Cannon sources for this explanation


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## Stunna (Apr 25, 2016)

Turrin said:


> And I only want Cannon sources


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## Kuromaku (Apr 26, 2016)

Turrin said:


> What did Palpatine do to manipulate the force? And I only want Cannon sources for this explanation



From the movies alone, we have strong implications that he's messing with the Force so that the Jedi find themselves increasingly unable to use it to their full potential. In other words, he wasn't just using it as the Jedi do, he was outright influencing it so that others would have trouble applying it.

And that's not even getting into the stuff Plagueis got up to. The only reason Sheev didn't start playing God was because he didn't quite know how to go about it considering the guy who did was kind of dead.


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## DemonDragonJ (Apr 26, 2016)

Did Luke and Leia ever learn who their mother was, I hope? Will the new films ever explore that idea?

On that subject, Padme obviously had to die for the sake of the story, but, if she had survived, what would she have done after she gave birth to her children? Perhaps people in the _Star Wars_ universe are sufficiently liberal and open-minded that would not make a great deal over such a subject, but she was a high-profile politician, so I am certain that someone would have wondered about the identity of her children's father.


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## Wan (Apr 27, 2016)




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## strongarm85 (Apr 28, 2016)

So I think the Bloodlines Novel that came out this week contradicts the supposed leak that came out.

It turns out that Luke hasn't been on the island for 15 years or so, but rather has only been there for about 5 years.

This means that Ben's seduction to the Darkside happened more recently than people might have thought, and it also means that Rey would have been about 10 years older if she and her mother had any connection to Luke's old Jedi Temple. So Rey is definitely not some former Student of Luke, and the story about Luke leaving her on Jakku didn't happen.


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## Skaddix (Apr 28, 2016)

Welp I am sure the ReyLo Fans are sad. Their boy Kylo was fully functional adult when Snoke flipped him to the darkside and had him slaughter his fellow Jedi.

Granted Kylo backstory never gave him much sympathy in my book. Not when compared against Finn or Rey. Or Heck his Idol Anakin has a much worse backstory. Slave, Separated from Mom, Mom dies, etc.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (Apr 29, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> From the movies alone, we have strong implications that he's messing with the Force so that the Jedi find themselves increasingly unable to use it to their full potential. In other words, he wasn't just using it as the Jedi do, he was outright influencing it so that others would have trouble applying it.
> 
> And that's not even getting into the stuff Plagueis got up to. The only reason Sheev didn't start playing God was because he didn't quite know how to go about it considering the guy who did was kind of dead.


So plaguies doesn't count, because he was "killed" by Palpatine.

As for the rest all the movies imply is that Palpatine somehow hid his presence from the Jedi, all the rest is speculation or based on stuff from non-canon materials. Snoke obviously hid his presence from Luke & Leia while influence Ben, unless you believe Luke/Leia allowed him to influence Ben. So Snoke also used the force to cloak himself somehow while he worked from the shadows. So I'm really not buying into the movies highlighting this huge difference between the Sith and Snoke, if all you can come up w/ is Palpatine cloaking himself through unknown means, which is something Snoke also almost certainly did when corrupting Ben.

Lucas himself said it, Vader brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine because Palpatine was a force user who was evil.  The key being that he was evil, Snoke is also an evil force user.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Turrin (Apr 29, 2016)

strongarm85 said:


> So I think the Bloodlines Novel that came out this week contradicts the supposed leak that came out.
> 
> It turns out that Luke hasn't been on the island for 15 years or so, but rather has only been there for about 5 years.
> 
> This means that Ben's seduction to the Darkside happened more recently than people might have thought, and it also means that Rey would have been about 10 years older if she and her mother had any connection to Luke's old Jedi Temple. So Rey is definitely not some former Student of Luke, and the story about Luke leaving her on Jakku didn't happen.


The Leak is obviously BS.

Personally what I believe is going to happen is the following.

Kylo is going to be based off the Jacen Solo character from EU. He will have had a Sister or Cousin who will fill the Jaina Solo. Episode VII and most of VIII, will lead the audience to believe that Rey is "Jaina", Rey herself may even start to believe this is the case, however at the end of Episode VIII we will find out that Rey is not "Jaina" and "Jaina" solo is actually dead, and the reason Ben turned to the darkside is because of the temptation of using Snoke (Plaguies) power to bring "Jaina" back from the dead. Rey will be important because she is similar to "Jaina" and can fill that void left by her death in the skywalker family as an adopted child, not because she is "Jaina" herself.

I think this effectively accomplishes several things, it draws a strong parallel between Vader and Kylo, as well as explain why Kylo went to the darkside, also may explain why Kylo was willing to kill Han (ether to convince Plaguies or to become dark enough to use Plagueises skills), as well as provides a real twist for Episode VIII that people wont' see coming, everyone expects her to be Kylo's Sister or Cousin. It also would fit with the comments made about Rey, where Ridely had said it's not really important where she comes from, as in her origins don't matter, because she isn't a skywalker by blood but will become one through adoption. It also would make sense w/ this new time line information.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 29, 2016)

Turrin said:


> So plaguies doesn't count, because he was "killed" by Palpatine.
> 
> As for the rest all the movies imply is that Palpatine somehow hid his presence from the Jedi, all the rest is speculation or based on stuff from non-canon materials. Snoke obviously hid his presence from Luke & Leia while influence Ben, unless you believe Luke/Leia allowed him to influence Ben. So Snoke also used the force to cloak himself somehow while he worked from the shadows. So I'm really not buying into the movies highlighting this huge difference between the Sith and Snoke, if all you can come up w/ is Palpatine cloaking himself through unknown means, which is something Snoke also almost certainly did when corrupting Ben.
> 
> Lucas himself said it, Vader brought balance to the force by killing Palpatine because Palpatine was a force user who was evil.  The key being that he was evil, Snoke is also an evil force user.



Let's work under the assumption that Plagueis was indeed killed, because it would have been really, really stupid for Palps not to make sure that the biggest threat to him was indeed dead and gone, especially given that Plagueis, in addition to being powerful and highly knowledgeable, knew his true identity and could have messed all his schemes up with but a few well placed reveals. It also would have been really, really stupid for Plagueis, had he survived, not to act earlier given that there was no guarantee that Palpatine wouldn't have figured out the secret to immortality himself, among other things.

Did you not read what I wrote? It's heavily implied in the films that the Jedi were increasingly unable to use the Force to their full potential due to Palpatine's machinations. In other words, in addition to hiding his identity, not so difficult given that Yoda and Obi Wan did just that for 19+ years, Palpatine was messing with the Force as it pertained to the Jedi.

As for Snoke, we have no idea what his game is. Now, you could argue that Snoke is a Dark Side user in the vein of the Sith, and that this goes against the prophecy by necessity given that Disney needed to make up some crap in order to justify more lightsaber battles in their films. On the other hand, you could look at Snoke and Kylo's relationship, and perhaps wonder if there is something else to him that makes him different from the Sith. Until we get more details, we can't and shouldn't make assumptions about just what Snoke is and how he relates to the Force.

As for the Jaina idea? It might work if it wasn't for the fact that there has been nothing to hint at it so far. Even a mention to suggest something along those lines being why Ben turned could have otherwise easily been included somehow in TFA.


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## Turrin (Apr 29, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> Let's work under the assumption that Plagueis was indeed killed, because it would have been really, really stupid for Palps not to make sure that the biggest threat to him was indeed dead and gone, especially given that Plagueis, in addition to being powerful and highly knowledgeable, knew his true identity and could have messed all his schemes up with but a few well placed reveals. It also would have been really, really stupid for Plagueis, had he survived, not to act earlier given that there was no guarantee that Palpatine wouldn't have figured out the secret to immortality himself, among other things.


Or Palapatine kept him imprisoned on the verge of death to learn his secrets or Palpatine simply lied about turning against Palguies and was still working for his master, his master was just in a weakened state that he needed time to recover from, anything is possible w/ the new canon.



> Did you not read what I wrote? It's heavily implied in the films that the Jedi were increasingly unable to use the Force to their full potential due to Palpatine's machinations. In other words, in addition to hiding his identity, not so difficult given that Yoda and Obi Wan did just that for 19+ years, Palpatine was messing with the Force as it pertained to the Jedi.


I read what you wrote fine, but all canon ever implied is that the Jedi's ability to use the force weakened because they couldn't detect Palpatine. This was due simply to existence of a powerful darkside user and thus the darkside of the force increasing, and making it hard for the Jedi to sense things through the force. So Palpatine didn't do anything, besides be a powerful darkside user and cloak his presence, which is the exact same thing Snoke is and almost certainly did.



> As for the Jaina idea? It might work if it wasn't for the fact that there has been nothing to hint at it so far. Even a mention to suggest something along those lines being why Ben turned could have otherwise easily been included somehow in TFA.


As I said, everything hints at Rey being related to Luke or Han/Leia/Ben, however these character interactions can be read differently, if say she wasn't related to Luke/Han/Leia/Ben, but she reminded them of a family member who passed away. 

And the reason why there isn't more major evidence is because it's being set up as a twist for Episode VIII.


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## Kuromaku (Apr 29, 2016)

Turrin said:


> Or Palapatine kept him imprisoned on the verge of death to learn his secrets or Palpatine simply lied about turning against Palguies and was still working for his master, his master was just in a weakened state that he needed time to recover from, anything is possible w/ the new canon.



Palpatine. The guy described by George as the equivalent to Satan in SW. The guy Ian felt was worse than the Devil, because at least Satan fell. The manipulative, power hungry SOB who was the epitome of what it meant to be a Sith. Somehow decided, despite admitting later to needing to research Plagueis' secrets. Kept his master alive.

Working for his master? This guy?




> I read what you wrote fine, but all canon ever implied is that the Jedi's ability to use the force weakened because they couldn't detect Palpatine. This was due simply to existence of a powerful darkside user and thus the darkside of the force increasing, and making it hard for the Jedi to sense things through the force. So Palpatine didn't do anything, besides be a powerful darkside user and cloak his presence, which is the exact same thing Snoke is and almost certainly did.



How did you come to that conclusion. What canon implies is that the Sith were messing with their ability to use the Force. It's not a matter of failing to detect someone. It's a matter of not being able to detect the person messing with their ability to potentially detect them because said person is outright hiding themselves and messing with the Force while at it.



> As I said, everything hints at Rey being related to Luke or Han/Leia/Ben, however these character interactions can be read differently, if say she wasn't related to Luke/Han/Leia/Ben, but she reminded them of a family member who passed away.
> 
> And the reason why there isn't more major evidence is because it's being set up as a twist for Episode VIII.



Not everything has to be a twist that comes out of nowhere regarding familial relations. They even went out of their way to subvert any twist by revealing early on just how Kylo Ren was related to Leia and Han. Unless said family member was hinted at, any twist at this point would just be crappy writing. If your theory relies on crappy writing to happen, then maybe it's not a good theory. And if the theory does become fact, then that doesn't say anything good about the writing.

Word of advice, whenever you have a theory, sit on it for at least a day. When you come back to it, ask yourself the following questions. Is this theory stupid in any way? Does it match what we've seen from the characters and the canon? Am I just twisting facts around to suit my theory, is does my theory meet the facts? Trust me, I know from experience that 90% of all my theories are crap, with the last 10% maybe getting posted somewhere if not left to rot in my mind.


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2016)

Kuromaku said:


> Palpatine. The guy described by George as the equivalent to Satan in SW


I don't understand what you don't get about the fact that Lucas isn't in charge of the new Trilogy.



> . The guy Ian felt was worse than the Devil, because at least Satan fell. The manipulative, power hungry SOB who was the epitome of what it meant to be a Sith. Somehow decided, despite admitting later to needing to research Plagueis' secrets. Kept his master alive.
> 
> Working for his master? This guy?


Palpatine also decided to take on the Chosen One who was suppose to destroy the Sith as his apprentice. Palpatine is someone who takes risks in search of greater power, keeping Plaguies alive in pursuit of acquiring Plaguies's powers falls perfectly in line with that. Alternative Plaguies may have been too powerful for Palpatine to kill. 



> How did you come to that conclusion. What canon implies is that the Sith were messing with their ability to use the Force. It's not a matter of failing to detect someone. It's a matter of not being able to detect the person messing with their ability to potentially detect them because said person is outright hiding themselves and messing with the Force while at it.


Where does it ever state that Palpatine was intentionally manipulating the force in Canon? I've asked you for a quote over a dozen times now and you haven't produced it once.

Again all that is stated by Mace is that their ability to use the force has diminshed. This is implied by other materials to be because the Force was out of balance, which was due simply to the existence of a powerful Darkside wielder, not because said Darkside wielder ever did something to intentionally throw the force out of balnace.



> Not everything has to be a twist that comes out of nowhere regarding familial relations. They even went out of their way to subvert any twist by revealing early on just how Kylo Ren was related to Leia and Han. Unless said family member was hinted at, any twist at this point would just be crappy writing. If your theory relies on crappy writing to happen, then maybe it's not a good theory. And if the theory does become fact, then that doesn't say anything good about the writing.


So I guess Rey being related to Luke or Han/Liea would also be crappy writting then according to you because the movie never stated that Luke had a daughter or Han/Liea had another kid. I mean i'm just trying to understand your double standards.


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## The Soldier (Apr 30, 2016)

still kinda pissed that a blu ray 3D wasn't released


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## Kuromaku (Apr 30, 2016)

Turrin said:


> I don't understand what you don't get about the fact that Lucas isn't in charge of the new Trilogy.



And I fail to understand how you don't seem to get what should be common sense. One more time. When the original creator outright states something as canon, it is canon. No questions asked. Regardless of what other creators may come after, the canon is set. If a person takes over from the original creator of a work, they can alter anything that is not explicitly canon as per the work itself or the word of the original author. To change any explicitly described rules risks backlash. That is how it works. Anyone with knowledge of fiction recognizes this basic unwritten rule. Surely you'd recognize that fact if you were well read.



> Palpatine also decided to take on the Chosen One who was suppose to destroy the Sith as his apprentice. Palpatine is someone who takes risks in search of greater power, keeping Plaguies alive in pursuit of acquiring Plaguies's powers falls perfectly in line with that. Alternative Plaguies may have been too powerful for Palpatine to kill



Or we just state the simple solution. Palpatine decided to take a risk in the hopes of ensuring that the prophecy would never come to pass, and at the same time strengthen the Sith by training potentially the single most powerful Force user ever, as a good Sith does. The moment Anakin was crippled on Mustafar was the moment that Palpatine's position was safe, and he decided to focus on strengthening his power base while also keeping on the lookout for potential apprentices. Note that he seemed perfectly willing to let Luke kill him if the latter would fall in the process, strengthening the Sith even further. Evil as all Sith are, the followers of Bane's Rule of Two recognize the value of the tradition.

And as for Plagueis being too powerful for Palpatine to kill. A Sith lord being too powerful for his apprentice to kill? Sidious, most powerful of the Sith, couldn't kill the guy he'd learned everything he knew from? And then decided to leave things be instead of tying up a very dangerous loose end? This wasn't like when he let Yoda go knowing that he at least had the backup of an entire Empire if things got out of hand down the line.



> Where does it ever state that Palpatine was intentionally manipulating the force in Canon? I've asked you for a quote over a dozen times now and you haven't produced it once.
> 
> Again all that is stated by Mace is that their ability to use the force has diminshed. This is implied by other materials to be because the Force was out of balance, which was due simply to the existence of a powerful Darkside wielder, not because said Darkside wielder ever did something to intentionally throw the force out of balnace.



Here is something for you. With bonus manipulation of the Force to screw with the Jedi.



			
				http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_shrine said:
			
		

> Following the Sith Order's defeat at the hands of their sworn enemies, the , the  was raised over the shrine's foundations in a symbolic attempt to bury the legacy that the Sith had left behind on the galactic . *Millennia later, this decision would prove disastrous for the Jedi Order, as , the reigning , was able to make ample use of the wellspring of  energy that lay at the shrine's heart; clouding the vision of the , and masking his true motives and identity until it was .*





> So I guess Rey being related to Luke or Han/Liea would also be crappy writting then according to you because the movie never stated that Luke had a daughter or Han/Liea had another kid. I mean i'm just trying to understand your double standards.



Please don't put words in my mouth just because I've poked holes in your precious theory. It doesn't hurt to ask questions if you're unsure of what I mean so I might clarify things that might be unclear.

By a stroke of luck, Vader being Anakin was a twist from out of nowhere that worked because it not only put Vader's actions up to that point in a new light, but given Alec Guiness' performance when discussing Anakin in the original movie and the comments by Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, actually managed to fit well. It's why that twist was appreciated far more than the more obviously shoehorned Skywalker siblings twist in the very next movie.

Now, as for how such standards apply to the movies, well, I suggest you don't suddenly change the subject just because your back is against a wall. There was no double standard anywhere until you made it up in an attempt to escape that little detail. Again, how is it good writing for Rey to remind them of a lost family member if said family member was never so much as hinted at in any shape or form. Even a "you remind me so much of" before cutting off would work if that was so. If you knew a thing about basic writing, you'd realize that much.

Meanwhile, there is reason to consider the possibility of a relationship of sorts between Rey and the Skywalkers. She's not only strong in the Force and a naturally talented pilot, but also appears to be drawn to Anakin's lightsaber, and vice versa. In other words, there are details that could easily point in that direction if the writers wanted it.

No double standard there. Get it?


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## Wan (Apr 30, 2016)

Turrin said:


> I don't understand what you don't get about the fact that Lucas isn't in charge of the new Trilogy.



Lucas is indeed not in charge of the new trilogy...and I have yet to see any sign that the people who _are _in charge care one wit about the Chosen One prophecy, the idea of the Force being out of balance, or Darth Plagueis.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2016)

I simply really hope that it shall be revealed that Luke had a love interest during the thirty years that passed between the defeat of the empire and the rise of the first order, as that is plenty of time for him to have had a love interest and for her to have died, prompting him to retreat to that planet. Plus, it would be only fair, since Han and Leia found love with each other, so he deserves love, as well.


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## Swarmy (May 3, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I simply really hope that it shall be revealed that Luke had a love interest during the thirty years that passed between the defeat of the empire and the rise of the first order, as that is plenty of time for him to have had a love interest and for her to have died, prompting him to retreat to that planet. Plus, it would be only fair, since Han and Leia found love with each other, so he deserves love, as well.



Really doubt it


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## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2016)

Swarmy said:


> Really doubt it



Why do you doubt it? Why would the writers not want Luke to have a love interest?


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## Swarmy (May 3, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do you doubt it? Why would the writers not want Luke to have a love interest?



He's supposed to be a hermit-like character, a bit like Kenobi but who knows


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## DemonDragonJ (May 3, 2016)

Swarmy said:


> He's supposed to be a hermit-like character, a bit like Kenobi but who knows



Obi-Wan had hints of romance with Satine in _The Clone Wars,_ plus, Luke had some interest in Leia before learning that she was his sister, and then there is Mara Jade, who is one of the most popular characters in all of _Star Wars_ who did not originate in the films. I see no reason to not include her, or an "expy" of her, in this new continuity, as the writers have already done that with Kylo Ren, who clearly was inspired by Jacen Solo; the writers must know that it would be very profitable to have her in the story, so they have nothing to lose by doing that.


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## Swarmy (May 3, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Obi-Wan had hints of romance with Satine in _The Clone Wars,_ plus, Luke had some interest in Leia before learning that she was his sister, and then there is Mara Jade, who is one of the most popular characters in all of _Star Wars_ who did not originate in the films. I see no reason to not include her, or an "expy" of her, in this new continuity, as the writers have already done that with Kylo Ren, who clearly was inspired by Jacen Solo; the writers must know that it would be very profitable to have her in the story, so they have nothing to lose by doing that.



Maybe, I just always viewed Luke as a teacher and even a bit of a monk than an actual warrior or lover.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 4, 2016)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Swarmy said:


> Really doubt it


He is an hermit


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Weiss said:


>


Omg thank you for sharing


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## Sennin of Hardwork (May 4, 2016)




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## DemonDragonJ (May 8, 2016)

Swarmy said:


> Maybe, I just always viewed Luke as a teacher and even a bit of a monk than an actual warrior or lover.



He never seemed to be that way, to me; Luke is an example of a classic hero, an archetype that is seen in countless fictional stories, and the heroes of those stories more often than not have love interests of some form. I still say that if Han Solo, who began as a rough-edged and self-centered opportunist, can find romance, so can Luke, who is much more friendly and likeable in terms of personality (plus, he is force-sensitive, which should be an appealing trait, as well).


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## Mider T (May 20, 2016)

Wan said:


> >sequel to 3rd highest grossing movie of all time
> >"feels like an independent film"
> 
> Something doesn't line up


Kind of like when they gave the Alien film to Neill Blomkamp.


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## Swarmy (May 20, 2016)

PlayOverwatch.com



> The details of the sequence come from Making Star Wars, and purport to describe a massive Jedi battle that was recently filmed at the location in Ireland where _Star Wars: Episode VIII_'s production is currently located. The scene reportedly contains seven black-clad, and black helmeted, figures who were photographed on the shoreline of Malin Head in County Donegal. These figures are almost certainly the same black helmeted figures that we saw in  during _Star Wars: The Force Awakens_, the Knights of Ren. Apparently, the seven characters advance, with , sans mask, in the lead. Kylo and Rey begin to duel one-on-one while the rest of the crew advances on Luke. Apparently, Luke force pushes one of the knights to his death (off a cliff?) before igniting his recognizable green lightsaber and engaging the rest of the opposition. While no specifics are given, Luke reportedly wipes the floor with the remaining five of them. It’s apparently so one-sided that when Kylo Ren realizes he’s left one-on-one with Luke (he apparently defeats Rey here, but how is unclear), he retreats rather than face his former master.


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## Skaddix (May 20, 2016)

We waited 3 Decades to see Luke beat up some scrubs with no Force?

Why the frak is Disney being so damn stingy with the force users. Luke absolutely shitting on some non Force Users is to be expected. It doesn't hype me at all.

Kylo being stronger then Rey now is obvious. He cant really be a credible threat without winning the rematch.


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## Stunna (May 20, 2016)

> While the prequel trilogy gave us a couple of two-on-one lightsaber battles, that was as big as the Jedi battles got.


someone apparently didn't see Palpatine dice up the Jedi in _RotS _(though I suppose I could understand excluding it on account of how drastically one-sided it was.)

anyway, I'd be down if this scene turned out to be real.


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## Mider T (May 21, 2016)

Where is this leak?


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## Skaddix (May 21, 2016)

Stunna said:


> someone apparently didn't see Palpatine dice up the Jedi in _RotS _(though I suppose I could understand excluding it on account of how drastically one-sided it was.)
> 
> anyway, I'd be down if this scene turned out to be real.



Palpatine waxed 3 Jedi Masters. Luke's beating up on like 6 Force Less Knights. Not Hyped.


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## Thespacelord (May 25, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> Palpatine waxed 3 Jedi Masters. Looks beating up on like 6 Force Less Knights. Not Hyped.



I suppose they could be Boba Fett and Pre Vizsla level of Fighters. (they are implied to have killed Jedi Padawans despite being being presumably outnumbered)


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## Skaddix (May 25, 2016)

I guess but Boba didn't really fight Jedi Masters.

As for Pre, he was helped out by the fact that Maul couldn't use his more overt force powers directly on him.

However, Luke should be on the level of Palpatine and we saw what Darth Sidious did to Darth Maul and Savage Opress at the same time. They had the Force and could kill Jedi Masters and yet they got styled on with Palpatine barely getting a workout in. Combine that with him blitzing 3 Jedi Masters. I think it clear only high end force users should be able to hang ie Yoda and Mace Windu.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jun 1, 2016)

I really do not like how Luke did the same thing that Yoda did by isolating himself from all the events that occurred during _The Force Awakens,_ as that is inconsistent with how he was portrayed during the original trilogy. If there was turmoil in the galaxy, he would not remove himself from it; he would be actively involved in attempting to fix it.


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## Stunna (Jun 1, 2016)

It's been, what, 35 years? Something like that? People change.


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## Mider T (Jun 1, 2016)

Time changes, people don't. 

The soul of shinobi Jedi stay the same.


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## Swarmy (Jun 1, 2016)

He did lose all his students after all.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jun 2, 2016)

Swarmy said:


> He did lose all his students after all.



That was lazy writing by the story writers, in my mind, as it was far too similar to what happened in the prequel trilogy; it almost seems to me as if the writers of this film do not wish for the Jedi order to be restored and force-users to be commonplace, again.

Also, considering everything that Han survived in the expanded universe, it was a major insult to his character for him to die so easily, as he did, in _The Force Awakens._

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Jun 3, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I really do not like how Luke did the same thing that Yoda did by isolating himself from all the events that occurred during _The Force Awakens,_ as that is inconsistent with how he was portrayed during the original trilogy. If there was turmoil in the galaxy, he would not remove himself from it; he would be actively involved in attempting to fix it.



Oh I agree really another Order 66. At least when they did this in Star Wars Legacy Comics. The NJO had a fallback plan.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Jun 7, 2016)

lol this really is a complete rehash, looks like disney has driven itself into a corner when it came to story. And to think they where handled all the storie possibilites on a silver tray.


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## Rindaman (Jun 13, 2016)

Thank Kathleen Kennedy for all the bullshit story narrative repeats to the OT, she wanted her female chosen one and we're gonna keep on getting it in spades it seems. I swear if we follow Rey's journey  right to the same place we left Luke at the end of ROTJ "pass on what you've learned" and all of that jazz, I'm officially calling the Sequel trilogy a dud.   Young Desert dweller has to come to terms with their place in the galaxy as the last practicing member of an ancient religious Order. That was Luke's story down to the letter last time I checked. Say what you want about the EU stuff but at least the content was alittle more inspired. All of that said it's still not over , they can actually still create a unique chapter to the saga and not just go through the checklist of rehashing of the Original Trilogy.

But honestly doesn't matter what they put on screen, half the SW fandom will proclaim it the best movie since ESB because they're gonna have Old man Luke solo The Knights Of Ren.

Still worried about Finn though, I think these guys will be so concerned about him not outshining Rey and now Luke, that he'll probably get tacked onto a side plot revolved around Poe and The Resistance.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Suigetsu (Jun 14, 2016)

Kathleen keneddy is clearly following an agenda. Just as she was given a career just to follow up the agenda of a feminist group.
SW at disney is creatively bankrupt, whine all you want about George but he at least had creativity.

I feel we got this result because of all the SW fanboys where whinning about - muhh childhood ruined- which is pathetic because was SW their sole childhood? fucking neckbeards that's what they are.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Stunna (Jun 15, 2016)

Rindaman said:


> Thank Kathleen Kennedy for all the bullshit story narrative repeats to the OT, she wanted her female chosen one and we're gonna keep on getting it in spades it seems.


TFA had plenty of problems, but I don't see how the new trilogy having a female protagonist is relevant to that.


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## Rindaman (Jun 15, 2016)

It's not about the female protagonist, idk why they tried to act like that was supposed to be some grand surprise that had to be protected and misdirected if you consider the little marketing scheme they had going with Finn leading up to TFA's release.

One of the first reports about the ST story content was that the main protagonist would be female , even before they decided to throw out the EU and start fresh, everyone naturally assumed it'd be surrounded Jaina Solo and either way Rey is inspired from said character in the first place, as is Kylo Ren with Jacen Solo.


What it is about though is the insistence that Rey be the only practicing Jedi ala Luke in the OT as opposed to following a fledgling Jedi Order or the makings of one, we basically have a soft reboot of the Classic "pass on what you've learned" narrative. Which should've just been Luke's story in spades but alas it's obvious that KK and her Team seek to surpass that status Luke gained over his three movie arc, because this chick was doing ROTJ mind tricks by the middle of act 3.  As if we didn't have enough callbacks with the superweapon and the struggling rebel force vs the mega political war monger machine, watching mentor die by the hand of  a villain trying to literally cut ties with a past on the opposite spectrum of the fight of light and darkness, we might have Luke's arc rehashed on steroids.

Now I could be totally wrong of course and I would be happy if I was, but I'm honestly going in with tempered expectations after TFA, which while a good movie overall it kinda rings hollow because the story honestly feels like it hasn't progressed from where we last left it. Way too much play on nostalgia only to reestablish the circumstances of the OT.


I'm honestly intrigued to see what Rian Johnson will bring because he's not into the mimicked homage gimmick like JJ.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Jul 1, 2016)

A female lead is not an issue. Although two white brunette young female leads in a row surrounded by MOC (men of color) supporting characters... I digress.

The Problems with Rey is she is OP, now there are two ways to fix this either make Finn OP as well or nerf Rey and Buff Finn.

Rey had all the abilities: multilingual, mechanical genius, martial arts master, ace pilot and force prodigy. She got all the cool stuff a staff, Luke's Saber, a blaster from Han. Now sure you can justify her skills. Well she was on a desert planet so she taught herself. She had a simulator but you cant do that bs and then say Finn sucking is fine like that is the way it had to be.The Falcon and Chewie. Plus everyone loved her. Finn was infatuated. Han wanted her on his crew. Kylo was stalking her. If she made a mistake she solved it herself. Luke spent most of ANH and heck even some Empire Strikes Back getting bailed out see Hoth. If Rey fucks up she solves it herself. Releases creatures, solves it Finn takes the fall. Gets captured escapes herself.

So take that and then they want to add Chosen One stuff on top. No one likes that. when Anakin did it. Add to that we have no Jedi Order again and the Republic just got nuked we are at square one and our heroes accomplished nothing. Again Legacy did it better. Sure the Jedi and New Republic took a beating but they were still standing.

Finn had all the shit. He was the butt of all the jokes and comic relief. His personality doesn't fit his backstory. His humor should be fish out of water. Not slapstick. He is far too happy for a recently escaped child soldier. There is no explanation on how he breaks his programming. He isn't a good fighter. He doesn't know explosives. Basically if he got trained since birth to fight I expect elite troops coming out of the First Order. Especially for a lead but he is shit.

Which is kinda offensive considering the marketing campaign that played him as a force user. We didn't get confirmation on him having the Force at all. So he is a shit first black lead. Oh and the romance is super ambiguous. So you got to wonder if he doesn't have the Force and doesn't get the romance with Rey WTF is the point of this character. Now you don't need to have the force to be awesome but when your shit at all the cool skills well then you do need it. Granted he wasn't a bad shot but it didn't get emphasized and it didn't help when in ships someone always had to lineup the shot for him. And as for Rey sorry any Star Wars Fan could add 2 + 2 and figure out she had the Force. She grows up on a desert planet with similar clothes to Luke and Anakin. It was fucking obvious. I gotta say her parent reveal better be good because if isn't this dragging is BS.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## DemonDragonJ (Jul 31, 2016)

That is a very nice analysis, Skaddix; it does not make sense that Rey, who had no formal training and was not even aware that she was force-sensitive, would be able to fight evenly with Kylo Ren, who had been training for years. Their fight should have been a repeat of Luke's battle with Darth Vader in Cloud City, where Vader utterly annihilated Luke despite Luke's training with Yoda, because he was much more powerful and skilled.

I now have my own complaint to make about the series, as well, this time about the prequel trilogy.

One thing that really bothered me was how Anakin was born via parthenogenesis, making him a blatantly Christ-like figure, and the prophecy of the chosen one was even more excessive. It also was very weird that Owen was not even related to him, as there was little reason for Owen to raise Luke, in that regard. If I had written the prequel trilogy, one change (out of many) that I would make would be that Anakin and Owen would have been full siblings, born to the same mother with an actual father. Anakin would be slightly older than Owen, and also more popular and talented, which would make Owen jealous. Then, when Anakin was revealed to be force-sensitive, that would be simply too much for Owen, and he would vow to never speak to Anakin, again, which would better explain his behavior toward Luke in the original trilogy.

Also, next year shall be the 40th anniversary of _Star Wars,_ so I expect that there shall be great celebrations and commemorations to honor it, but I do hope that the expanded universe is mentioned and honored in some way, because it would be very disrespectful to pretend that it never happened, as Pantera has done with their first four albums.


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## Skaddix (Jul 31, 2016)

I didn't comment on Kylo. But my god he opens with a cool force feat and then drops off the cliff. He is Skywalker trained for years and he got rekt by Rey. Look at how Vader manhandled Ezra in Rebels and Ezra at that point had like 2 years of training.


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## Vault (Jul 31, 2016)

Kylo wasnt given proper Sith training maybe because Snoke felt he was still tethered to his identity as Ben Solo so why risk training someone only to become an enemy later on.  

But now he has proven himself i expect a better showing


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## Krory (Aug 1, 2016)

tfw Kylo Ren is apparently master swordsman when he only beats up old men and computers.


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## DemonDragonJ (Aug 1, 2016)

Why did the writers choose to have Kylo Ren be so short-tempered? That was one of the greatest complaints that audiences had about Anakin in the prequel trilogy, and one of the greatest reasons that Darth Vader was so popular in the original trilogy was because of how calm and nearly emotionless he was, barely allowing anything to upset him and always remaining in charge of whatever situation he was in.


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## Krory (Aug 1, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did the writers choose to have Kylo Ren be so short-tempered? That was one of the greatest complaints that audiences had about Anakin in the prequel trilogy, and one of the greatest reasons that Darth Vader was so popular in the original trilogy was because of how calm and nearly emotionless he was, barely allowing anything to upset him and always remaining in charge of whatever situation he was in.



Because they have two more movies to show actual character evolution in him.  People complain about the movie being too similar to A New Hope, but then want the antagonist to be exactly the same as every other antagonist, too? Sheesh.


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## Skaddix (Aug 1, 2016)

They want  a villain that doesn't suck. Him being short tempered isn't a problem. Him sucking in combat...


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## A. Waltz (Aug 1, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why did the writers choose to have Kylo Ren be so short-tempered? That was one of the greatest complaints that audiences had about Anakin in the prequel trilogy, and one of the greatest reasons that Darth Vader was so popular in the original trilogy was because of how calm and nearly emotionless he was, barely allowing anything to upset him and always remaining in charge of whatever situation he was in.


his short temper was well received, it was funny
anakin's was taken too seriously within the films
whereas kylo's tantrums were made as jokes

plus it's a han/leia trait. gotta be like his daddy and mommy somehow 
in the originals these moments of frustration from either characters were funny too

kylo might have a short temper but he ain't a little bitch like anakin 

tbh i dont remember anakin throwing tantrums the same way kylo does, but he was a bit more angsty/whiney. it was like arguing with a teenager. which makes sense, cuz he was. and given the relationship he had with obi wan, it also makes sense.

vs kylo seems like he simply has anger problems, and we all know where he got that from. very reminiscent of han and leia. which also makes sense, he's their son lol.


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## Krory (Aug 1, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> They want  a villain that doesn't suck. Him being short tempered isn't a problem. Him sucking in combat...



You guys can't have this both ways - you can't be like, "Rey beat a highly trained Sith Warrior, she's op" and then go off and say, "Kylo Ren is such a pussy and weak."

It's not a character _fault_ if you go through (or even need to go through) evolution, development, and growth. Just like Rey, Finn, Poe, and others, we're seeing Kylo in his infancy as a character.


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## Skaddix (Aug 1, 2016)

No my argument is Kylo should be a highly trained force user plus u know Skywalker. Instead he was a weak willed pussy.


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## A. Waltz (Aug 1, 2016)

it's obvious rey is being hyped up as THE skywalker though 

i mean sure leia is technically a skywalker but she was never treated like a one in the films.

kylo is the product of two side characters

rey is hyped up as the product of luke skywalker, the savior and all that bullshit

of course rey is gonna be more op than kylo when it comes to all that destiny hero shit


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## Krory (Aug 1, 2016)

Skaddix said:


> No my argument is Kylo should be a highly trained force user plus u know Skywalker. Instead he was a weak willed pussy.



I could be trained in football by Dan Marino (or whoever the kids like these days) but no matter how good of a trainer I have, I could just naturally _suck_ at it. Maybe he wasn't making any headway under Luke's training, Snoke saw potential and someone easy to manipulate because of his insecurity, and bam. Instant apprentice. And again, we already know he hasn't been fully trained in the dark side of the Force and shit.

And he could still be a good Force-user but a super-shitty lightsaber duelist... which is why he only beats up old men and computers. I mean, he _does_ have a "special" lightsaber that's only for show.


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## A. Waltz (Aug 1, 2016)

yeah it'd be really refreshing if he just naturally sucked at something as over-looked as saber wielding.


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## DemonDragonJ (Aug 2, 2016)

Rey said:


> Because they have two more movies to show actual character evolution in him. People complain about the movie being too similar to A New Hope, but then want the antagonist to be exactly the same as every other antagonist, too? Sheesh.



First, this change is a change for the worse, not for the better, in the minds of most viewers. Second, it is acceptable for minor antagonists to be short-tempered, but, in my mind, the higher-ranking the antagonist, the more clam and stern they must be, since a person must usually have control of their emotions to achieve a high status.



Skaddix said:


> They want  a villain that doesn't suck. *Him being short tempered isn't a problem.* Him sucking in combat...



It is, for me; how can the audience, or the heroes, take him seriously, if he is short-tempered?



A. Waltz said:


> his short temper was well received, it was funny
> anakin's was taken too seriously within the films
> whereas kylo's tantrums were made as jokes



A villain should never be treated as a joke, in my mind; they always need to be serious, or they cannot be a legitimate threat, in my mind.


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## A. Waltz (Aug 2, 2016)

DemonDragonJ said:


> First, this change is a change for the worse, not for the better, in the minds of most viewers. Second, it is acceptable for minor antagonists to be short-tempered, but, *in my mind, the higher-ranking the antagonist, the more clam and stern they must be, since a person must usually have control of their emotions to achieve a high status.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well i dont think being a villain is necessarily about having a high status. many villains start off because they don't have a "high status" within their society. villains can be bred within a film, similarly to how heroes are bred and developed within most hero-narrative stories. 

it is boring to be presented with a caricature for a villain, or a hero, and simply be expected to treat them as such simply because they contain the "traits." for starters, that sort of thinking relies on following a mold of what the stereotypical traits are. a villain is still a character. and a character will grab our attention and respect if they are actually complex and have a character. a character that rings true in our hearts will always be superior to what is simply the best personification of a hollow caricature. 

and as for short-tempers, i find it ridiculous that you would expect all villains to be cold and calculating. that is a trope, dear. free yourself from the mold. to expect all protagonists or antagonist to have the exact same personality traits every single time is ludicrous. it is boring, it is tired. this is a ridiculous argument to make. go watch a children's cartoon if you want all your villains and heroes simple to spot on the fly.

and just for kicks, ill make the argument that short tempers can indeed be villainous traits. the fear that comes from being subject to someone's temper, has it never struck you? consider being stuck in an abusive family relationship where you are constantly under the guise of someone's short temper. the constant psychological trauma one must endure during such bouts can be unnerving. the unpredictability of when they will strike with rage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Aug 2, 2016)

Some time ago, another user stated that they were glad that the story of Palpatine resurrecting himself is no longer part of the continuity, but I actually liked that story, since it showed that Palpatine succeeded where Plagueis did not; he was able to escape from death. In contrast to that, I really hope that Snoke is not Plagueis, however good of a twist that would be, because that would mean that Palpatine did not surpass Plagueis, which is one of the core beliefs of Sith philosophy (i.e., the student surpassing the teacher).



A. Waltz said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, that is very true, and it makes much sense.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 23, 2017)

Episode VIII is called "The Last Jedi".



Pictures.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

I can dig the name as it has multiple meanings


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

RIP Luke.

This reminds me: I'm disappointed that TFA didn't explore Leia's Force sensitivity any.


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Stunna said:


> RIP Luke.
> 
> This reminds me: I'm disappointed that TFA didn't explore Leia's Force sensitivity any.


Jedi is Plural you derp

It was explored in the novelization and in the novel Bloodline


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 23, 2017)

Stunna said:


> RIP Luke.
> 
> This reminds me: I'm disappointed that TFA didn't explore Leia's Force sensitivity any.



Well if I remember correctly,  she did go into shock when she felt Han dying a galaxy away.


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## Skaddix (Jan 23, 2017)

Jedi is both singular and plural. Besides Star Wars Titles tend to have double meanings. 

I am more interested in it being the continuation of Skywalker Saga so Rey is a Skywalker right.


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

Legend said:


> Jedi is Plural you derp


It can be, it doesn't _have _to be. Theorizing that Luke is going to die isn't exactly a stretch, don't be simple.



Legend said:


> It was explored in the novelization and in the novel Bloodline


Not the movie, so idc



~Gesy~ said:


> Well if I remember correctly,  she did go into shock when she felt Han dying a galaxy away.


True, but I meant like how the Legends canon had her actually be trained by Luke to consciously use Force abilities and a lightsaber.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Saishin (Jan 23, 2017)

Let me guess Episode X will be titled The first Jedi 

Honestly I didn't like the idea of the jedis being extinct,in TFA it makes you think that Luke have lost all the apprentices (is that even possible?) I'd like to see a Jedi order fully restored,that would be interesting to see.

Personally TFA is a great movie but yeah it recycled the plot from A New Hope,there's nothing new in Episode VII I would have expected something more original.


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## Six (Jan 23, 2017)

Sadly, it'll be gayer than the Force Awakens, if that's even possible. 
I also heard that they might be doing something romantically with Finn and that other guy he rescued. I really don't feel like watching Brokeback Mountain with lightsabers.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## John Wick (Jan 23, 2017)

Nimura Furuta said:


> Sadly, it'll be gayer than the Force Awakens, if that's even possible.
> I also heard that they might be doing something romantically with Finn and that other guy he rescued. I really don't feel like watching Brokeback Mountain with lightsabers.


he doesn't have donnie yens badassery and that other dudes gruffness to pull of a laserweapon weilding gay couple.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Jedi is both singular and plural. Besides Star Wars Titles tend to have double meanings.
> 
> I am more interested in it being the continuation of Skywalker Saga so Rey is a Skywalker right.


Kylo Ren is a Skywalker


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

Kylo Ren is a Solo.


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## Bender (Jan 23, 2017)

Finally we got a title for episode VIII


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 23, 2017)

imma bet that Rey is Vader reborn; i heard that theory that she's the "chosen one" like Anakin and it stuck


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## Pilaf (Jan 23, 2017)

My speculation is that Luke is the Last Jedi, not Rey. 

Snoke and Ren aren't Sith, but they're trained Force users. I think Luke is gonna train Rey, but not as a Jedi. She's gonna be something else. Something new.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> My speculation is that Luke is the Last Jedi, not Rey.
> 
> Snoke and Ren aren't Sith, but they're trained Force users. I think Luke is gonna train Rey, but not as a Jedi. She's gonna be something else. Something new.


I like it.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 23, 2017)

The title of this film has me worried that the Jedi order will never return, despite Luke's efforts to do so and the fact that the new Jedi order was hugely important in the original expanded universe. Why are the writers doing this? Why did they need to undo the happy ending of _Return of the Jedi?_

Hopefully, since the word "Jedi" is both singular and plural, Luke will not be the last of the Jedi, and there will be others, after him. I agree with @Stunna that it was very unfortunate that this new continuity has not explored Leia's force sensitivity very much, and, now that Carrie Fisher is dead, I doubt that they ever shall explore it further.

On that subject, I imagine that Leia will probably die in this episode, since Han died in the previous episode, and the film makers will need to adjust to Fisher's death.

I hope that Captain Phasma returns in this episode and can actually do something impressive, to make up for her humiliating defeat in the previous episode.

The fact that the title in the poster was written in red, rather than the traditional yellow, cannot be a mere aesthetic chose, so I imagine that there must be a reason for it, which shall likely be revealed in the episode.


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Stunna said:


> Kylo Ren is a Solo.


Anakin Skywalker is his grandfather therefore he is Skywalker.


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

Stunna said:


> Kylo Ren is a Solo.


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 23, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The title of this film has me worried that the Jedi order will never return, despite Luke's efforts to do so and the fact that the new Jedi order was hugely important in the original expanded universe. Why are the writers doing this? Why did they need to undo the happy ending of _Return of the Jedi?_
> 
> Hopefully, since the word "Jedi" is both singular and plural, Luke will not be the last of the Jedi, and there will be others, after him. I agree with @Stunna that it was very unfortunate that this new continuity has not explored Leia's force sensitivity very much, and, now that Carrie Fisher is dead, I doubt that they ever shall explore it further.
> 
> ...



Everything's a god damn essay with this robot.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 23, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> My speculation is that Luke is the Last Jedi, not Rey.
> 
> Snoke and Ren aren't Sith, but they're trained Force users. I think Luke is gonna train Rey, but not as a Jedi. She's gonna be something else. Something new.


That's what I was thinking , otherwise I don't like the idea of Luke being another  Ben Kenobi .

Stop tricking us into watching the same movie!


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## The World (Jan 23, 2017)

kylo ren is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)

Reactions: Agree 4 | Creative 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 23, 2017)

Im excited to see more Kylo and his depth !

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 23, 2017)

Kylo's got as much depth as Sasuke Uchiha.


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## Six (Jan 23, 2017)

Ending of Rogue One Darth Vader was/is more badass than Ren will ever be.



NostalgiaFan said:


> Kylo's got as much depth as Sasuke Uchiha.


I wonder who his Naruto is.


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Kylo and Rey will do a double turn


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## Stunna (Jan 23, 2017)

If Rey turns to the Dark Side, she'll be cemented as a discount Bastila Shan.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 23, 2017)

Stunna said:


> If Rey turns to the Dark Side, she'll be cemented as a discount Bastila Shan.


Oh, gold star for you for dat KOTOR reference


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

I want a old republic spinoff movie

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 23, 2017)

Finn will carry the movie again

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 23, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Im excited to see more Kylo and his depth !


I'll PM you some websites

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Im curious who Benicio Del Toro is playing


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## Skaddix (Jan 23, 2017)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Kylo's got as much depth as Sasuke Uchiha.



Hey that is an insult to Sasuke and I dont even like the Sauce.

At least Sasuke had a reason for breaking bad. 

Kylo is a rich white entitled douche who went bad because his parents were too busy working to go to every Soccer Game. Plus you know Sauce not a straight ripoff and fanboy of Darth Vader.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Six (Jan 23, 2017)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Kylo's got as much depth as Sasuke Uchiha.





Weiss said:


> Finn will carry the movie again


I found it gay how Finn lost to Ren, but forehead beat his ass.


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## Seraphiel (Jan 23, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Finn will carry the movie again


finn and poe were best chars tbh

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 23, 2017)

Oh and Sauce never got his ass beat by an untrained girl.


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## Atlas (Jan 23, 2017)

Legend said:


> I want a old republic spinoff movie



Everyone does, except for Disney.


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

Atlas said:


> Everyone does, except for Disney.


I have faith


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 23, 2017)

Legend said:


> I want a old republic spinoff movie





Atlas said:


> Everyone does, except for Disney.





Legend said:


> I have faith



I still want Mara Jade to be re-canonized; if Thrawn can be, and if Kylo Ren is a poor imitation of Jacen Solo, why not her, as well?

As long as I am discussing Kylo Ren, why did he choose that as his name? How is that name even remotely intimidating or awesome? Nearly every dark side force user has an evil-sounding or otherwise fierce name, so I fail to see why someone who holds Darth Vader in such high reverence would not choose a name that also contained the title "darth."


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## Legend (Jan 23, 2017)

She might be, who knows, maybe Kylo already killed her.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 24, 2017)

i dont really like the new title
just cuz it sounds like a repetition of "the return of the jedi"

every other movie has not repeated any of the major words

a phantom menace
attack of the clones
revenge of the sith
a new hope
the empire strikes back
return of the *jedi*
the force awakens
the last *jedi*

smh

it makes me worry that they're going to go for another one of those OG ass lickers instead of something more original
though i have hope from all the other interviews and stuff that they'll go in their own original direction vs trying to make another OG tribute 
but the title says otherwise


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 24, 2017)

It's only been used twice you psychotic mess.


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## Mider T (Jan 24, 2017)

Besides Return of the Jedi was originally supposed to be Revenge of the Jedi, then there would have been Revenge of the Sith.


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## Legend (Jan 24, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> i dont really like the new title
> just cuz it sounds like a repetition of "the return of the jedi"
> 
> every other movie has not repeated any of the major words
> ...


Attack of the Clones made no sense, and is the worst title for the worst movie

Episode 6 was originally called Revenge of the Jedi

The Last Jedi is a title with many meanings, you cant retread a storyline that doesnt have a precedent. This movie is starting right where TFA left off.


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## Legend (Jan 24, 2017)

Azn you need to do some research before you shoot from the hip without knowing anything.


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 24, 2017)

Who's Azn?


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## Mider T (Jan 24, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


> Who's Azn?


Approximately half of the people on Earth.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Legend (Jan 24, 2017)

Azn = A.Waltz


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## Jon Moxley (Jan 24, 2017)

RIP  Luke .


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## A. Waltz (Jan 24, 2017)

i just dont like it because it repeats another word that was previously used in a title
like a major word

every title so far has been unique so seeing a repeated word doesnt jive well especially with how much of a safe ode TFA was to the prequels.

@Legend yes, originally called revenge of the jedi. but it wasn't. it was called return of the jedi. so using "revenge" in the prequels was fair game since it wasn't actually branded and used in the past movies.

but jedi HAS been used before, so that's why i have a problem with it. 
it just doesnt match the overall pattern of titles. none have so far repeated themselves, and suddenly you have one repeating a title word, and in the same spot too. aesthetically it just ruins the entire image that all the titles have had.


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## Legend (Jan 24, 2017)

The Force Awakens is a worse title imo, it has meaning but feels bland.


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> yes, originally called revenge of the jedi. but it wasn't. it was called return of the jedi. so using "revenge" in the prequels was fair game since it wasn't actually branded and used in the past movies.
> 
> but jedi HAS been used before, so that's why i have a problem with it.
> it just doesnt match the overall pattern of titles. none have so far repeated themselves, and suddenly you have one repeating a title word, and in the same spot too. aesthetically it just ruins the entire image that all the titles have had.



Well, just call it "The Last" for shorthand so that there's no confusion with Jedi.

Wait, there was a Naruto movie named like that


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2017)

I believe in Kylo Ren 

he will get training from Snoker and hand Rey her ass in VIII

maybe even cut off a hand as is tradition


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

I think Kylo would've handed Ray her ass on a platter even in the last film tbh. Only reason he couldn't was because he was already pretty badly beat up from being shot by Chewie. Bear in mind that the entire movie hyped the bowcaster like crazy cuz you could see how it could blast stormtroopers back the length of an entire football field (an exaggeration just to prove a point). Yet Kylo withstood it and still fought on.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 24, 2017)

Maybe this is where Jedi end and something else takes their place


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

Also, if it's Rey who's gonna lose a hand, that may as well confirm her for Skywalker as the middle films in any trilogy involves a Skywalker losing a hand, not just anyone.


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Maybe this is where Jedi end and something else takes their place





That's worth considering. Jedi and Sith were never the exclusive Force user groups in either Legends or Canon continuity after all.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 24, 2017)

Roman said:


> Also, if it's Rey who's gonna lose a hand, that may as well confirm her for Skywalker as the middle films in any trilogy involves a Skywalker losing a hand, not just anyone.


i can see finn losing a hand


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> i can see finn losing a hand



He's already lost what was left of his backbone, please no more


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 24, 2017)

genuinely can't believe disney managed to fuck the title up this bad

I guess this proves that the entire thing isn't designed by a market panel at least

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 2


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

I don't actually mind the title tbh. Besides, Star Wars movie titles were never anything deep or thought provoking and were never meant to be. They're typically obvious in telling what the movie is going to be about.


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## Stunna (Jan 24, 2017)

Legend said:


> Attack of the Clones made no sense, and is the worst title





Legend said:


> The Force Awakens is a worse title imo


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## Mider T (Jan 24, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> i just dont like it because it repeats another word that was previously used in a title
> like a major word
> 
> every title so far has been unique so seeing a repeated word doesnt jive well especially with how much of a safe ode TFA was to the prequels.
> ...


Aesthetic titles, what?


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## Jake CENA (Jan 24, 2017)

the last jedi my ass. every time they make a star wars movie its always about a new jedi


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 24, 2017)

Roman said:


> That's worth considering. Jedi and Sith were never the exclusive Force user groups in either Legends or Canon continuity after all.



That is true, but they are by far the best-known groups of force users, both in-universe and out-of-universe, so I highly doubt that they shall ever be truly extinct, since the writers know that they are popular.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Roman (Jan 24, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is true, but they are by far the best-known groups of force users, both in-universe and out-if-universe, so I highly doubt that they shall ever be truly extinct, since the writers know that they are popular.



Sith are actually extinct now. At least until we know exactly what Snoke is.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 24, 2017)

Roman said:


> Sith are actually extinct now. At least until we know exactly what Snoke is.



As I said, above, they are the best-known faction of dark side uses, so the writers will not keep them out of the story for too long, and there is still the fan theory that Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis, a theory of which I am not fond, because it undermines Palpatine.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Rukia (Jan 24, 2017)

I hate the title.  The last Jedi?  Haven't we already done this before?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 24, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As I said, above, they are the best-known faction of dark side uses, so the writers will not keep them out of the story for too long, and there is still the fan theory that Snoke is actually Darth Plagueis, a theory of which I am not fond, because it undermines Palpatine.



There are too many damn commas in one sentence.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Legend (Jan 24, 2017)

Stunna said:


>


Both were lame alright?

Attack of the Clones is worse of the two


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## Stunna (Jan 24, 2017)

Return of the Jedi > The Empire Strikes Back > Revenge of the Sith > The Phantom Menace > A New Hope > Attack of the Clones > The Last Jedi >> The Force Awakens

As far as titles go. I don't mind _Attack of the Clones _as a title.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 24, 2017)

This is the worst for me

Too typical/cliche..... like shouldn't take more than a minute  to think it up.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Jan 24, 2017)

Legend said:


> Im curious who Benicio Del Toro is playing


Same role he played in GotG, The Collector.  Remember this is all owned by Disney now.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 24, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Jan 24, 2017)

Roman said:


> He's already lost what was left of his backbone, please no more



Nah KK will never let her Precious Mary Sue take any damage or fail to look awesome. So yeah Finn probably will keep taking Ls for Rey. 

Fucks sake went from Lando and Mace to Finn. SMFH. 

The problem with Finn and Poe is Star Wars has never been all that great at making the non Force Side of the Plot look interesting. 

Last time though it was anchored by Han Solo who at least started strong....had the coolest ship, the greatest sidekick, the best friends and got the girl. 

If Finn gets one of those I will be shocked.


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## Stunna (Jan 24, 2017)

Finn is a better character than Mace Windu.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Gabe (Jan 24, 2017)

The last jedi. Nice simple title. Better then the force awakens imo


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## Swarmy (Jan 25, 2017)

I think this movie will be the end of the jedi as a title and philosophy just as TFA was the end of the sith. So yeah whatever Luke teaches Rey she won't be a jedi but something completely new.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Jan 25, 2017)

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason why TLJ is picking up where TFA left off instead of the traditional time-skip; it'd be easier to sell Luke training Rey to become something other than a Jedi by showing it rather than explaining it after the fact.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


> There are too many damn commas in one sentence.



Rather than criticize my punctuation, you could actually respond to what I said, as that would be more beneficial for this thread, and everyone who is participating in it.



Swarmy said:


> I think this movie will be the end of the jedi as a title and philosophy just as TFA was the end of the sith. So yeah whatever Luke teaches Rey she won't be a jedi but something completely new.



I really hope that that does not happen, since the Jedi and Sith have been integral parts of the _Star Wars_ universe from the very beginning, and it would simply not be the same without them. Can you imagine _X-Men_ without mutants, _Star Trek_ with transporters, or _Lord of the Rings_ without any rings? The Jedi and Sith are as essential to _Star Wars_ as are hyperdrive and lightsabers, so to not have them would be utterly wrong.

As long as I am on this subject, why do the makers of these new films seem to be trying to make them as different as possible from the previous films? Why must they disrupt a tried-and-true formula?


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## Swarmy (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I really hope that that does not happen, since the Jedi and Sith have been integral parts of the _Star Wars_ universe from the very beginning, and it would simply not be the same without them. Can you imagine _X-Men_ without mutants, _Star Trek_ with transporters, or _Lord of the Rings_ without any rings? The Jedi and Sith are as essential to _Star Wars_ as are hyperdrive and lightsabers, so to not have them would be utterly wrong.



Yet the sith are gone, the burned remains of Vader's mask are all that's left of them and TFA makes it clear


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## Mider T (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Rather than criticize my punctuation, you could actually respond to what I said, as that would be more beneficial for this thread, and everyone who is participating in it.


There are actually an unnecessary amount of commas here too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Rather than criticize my punctuation, you could actually respond to what I said, as that would be more beneficial for this thread, and everyone who is participating in it.



There's no trace of human in this sentence.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> Yet the sith are gone, the burned remains of Vader's mask are all that's left of them and TFA makes it clear



Then why are Snoke and Kylo Ren essentially Sith in everything but name? There are two of them, Kylo Ren has a red-bladed lightsaber, and they are practically clones of Darth Vader and Palpatine.



Mider T said:


> There are actually an unnecessary amount of commas here too.



No, there are not; I was an English major in college before switching to history and then technical support, so I am very familiar with proper usage of grammar and punctuation.



BlazingInferno said:


> There's no trace of human in this sentence.



That is your opinion, not a fact.


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## Swarmy (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Then why are Snoke and Kylo Ren essentially Sith in everything but name? There are two of them, Kylo Ren has a red-bladed lightsaber, and they are practically clones of Darth Vader and Palpatine.



It is implied that Kylo Ren is not entirely into the dark side only, he is a mix of both which is against the teachings if the sith.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

heh heh...technical support . These jokes write themselves .

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Mider T (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> No, there are not; I was an English major in college before switching to history and then technical support, so I am very familiar with proper usage of grammar and punctuation.


I didn't even major in English and I'm better than you.  Good thing you switched to technical support.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> It is implied that Kylo Ren is not entirely into the dark side only, he is a mix of both which is against the teachings if the sith.


eh, so was Darth Vader .

He isn't _taught_ to like both. It's obviously  against the nights of ren teachings as well .


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## Swarmy (Jan 25, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> eh, so was Darth Vader .
> 
> He isn't _taught_ to like both. It's obviously  against the nights of ren teachings as well .



Wasn't it said somewhere that Snoke wants him exactly because he can channel both sides?


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## Zeta42 (Jan 25, 2017)

Hmm, who does The Last Jedi refer to? A single character, or a number of characters (since the word Jedi could easily be in plural)?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> Wasn't it said somewhere that Snoke wants him exactly because he can channel both sides?


Nope
*"Forgive me. I feel it again. The pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."*

Sounds to me that Snoke isn't too pleased with his apprentice's lack of commitment .

C'mon dude it was the whole point of killing Han.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Swarmy (Jan 25, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Nope
> *"Forgive me. I feel it again. The pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."*
> 
> Sounds to me that Snoke isn't too pleased with his apprentice's lack of commitment .
> ...


Perhaps


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

"perhaps"


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I didn't even major in English and I'm better than you.  Good thing you switched to technical support.



A claim such as that needs evidence to support it; prove your superiority.



~Gesy~ said:


> Nope
> *"Forgive me. I feel it again. The pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."*
> 
> Sounds to me that Snoke isn't too pleased with his apprentice's lack of commitment .
> ...



I hope that this episode reveals more about Kylo Ren's reasons for turning to the dark side, and that they are reasons that actually make sense; as pathetic as Anakin's reason for turning to the dark side was, at least it made sense, whereas Kylo Ren seems to have had a happy life with supportive parents, giving him no reason at all to turn, unless there was great tension between Han and Leia, and he felt that they did not love him, providing Snoke with an opportunity to influence him.


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## Stunna (Jan 25, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I really hope that that does not happen, since the Jedi and Sith have been integral parts of the _Star Wars_ universe from the very beginning, and it would simply not be the same without them. Can you imagine _X-Men_ without mutants, _Star Trek_ with transporters, or _Lord of the Rings_ without any rings? The Jedi and Sith are as essential to _Star Wars_ as are hyperdrive and lightsabers, so to not have them would be utterly wrong.


A lot of false equivalencies. Sith and Jedi are merely groups, and they wouldn't be retroactively removed from the universe.

Taking _Force users_ out would be akin to taking mutants out of _X-Men. _In this case, it'd be like making a story without the Brotherhood of Mutants and without the group, the X-Men. Doesn't seem drastic now, does it? Same thing with the other stories you mentioned.



> As long as I am on this subject, why do the makers of these new films seem to be trying to make them as different as possible from the previous films? Why must they disrupt a tried-and-true formula?


This couldn't be more objectively wrong if you tried, bro. TFA is overtly and egregiously similar to the previous movies.


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## John Wick (Jan 25, 2017)

Luke really shit the bed rebuilding the jedi order didn't he?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

VAK said:


> Luke really shit the bed rebuilding the jedi order didn't he?


It's not his fault Han and Leia shipped their weirdo of a son to his doorstep .


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## John Wick (Jan 25, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> It's not his fault Han and Leia shipped their weirdo of a son to his doorstep .


it's his fault for not allowing nepotism and making him a master.


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## Rukia (Jan 25, 2017)

I'm more interested in A Dog's Purpose than I am in seeing more Luke Skywalker.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

VAK said:


> it's his fault for not allowing nepotism and making him a master.


Ben was a master?He barely knows how to use saber properly


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## John Wick (Jan 25, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Ben was a master?He barely knows how to use saber properly


what the fuck are you on about, when did I say he was a master read the post before you post something.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 25, 2017)

Stunna said:


> A lot of false equivalencies. Sith and Jedi are merely groups, and they wouldn't be retroactively removed from the universe.
> 
> Taking _Force users_ out would be akin to taking mutants out of _X-Men. _In this case, it'd be like making a story without the Brotherhood of Mutants and without the group, the X-Men. Doesn't seem drastic now, does it? Same thing with the other stories you mentioned.



Yes, that does make sense, but having new groups take their place would simply not be the same thing; it would seem to be a poor imitation of what was done before. There is no reason that there cannot be entirely new Jedi and Sith orders, created by admirers of the originals, as happened in the original expanded universe.



VAK said:


> Luke really shit the bed rebuilding the jedi order didn't he?



Yes, which makes this new continuity a major insult to the original continuity, in which Luke's new Jedi order was very prosperous and successful, so I hope that the writers of these films eventually decide to have a proper new Jedi order in them.


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## Stunna (Jan 25, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

VAK said:


> what the fuck are you on about, when did I say he was a master read the post before you post something.


My bad, you're probably gonna have to elaborate .Are you saying Luke should've committed nepotism and trust his nephew with power over  the other students despite his instability ?


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## John Wick (Jan 25, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> My bad, you're probably gonna have to elaborate .Are you saying Luke should've committed nepotism and trust his nephew with power over  the other students despite his instability ?


Bruv it was a joke and basically yeh because not making him a master probably drove him over the edge thanks to ham giving the prick abandonment issues


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## Turrin (Jan 25, 2017)

The First Trilogy was about a Skywalker becoming a champion of the light side of the force (Jedi). The second trilogy was about a Skywalker falling to the Darkside of the force (Sith). It wouldn't be surprising if the Final Skywalker trilogy was about  a skywalker finding balance between these two extremes and forging a new path. Thus the Jedi tradition ends with Luke, while Rey &/or Ben develop a new order.

This also fits imo with the overall story. It seems like extremes bring about an opposite reaction. In the prequel trilogy the extreme lightside users, Jedi, bring about the Sith which ultimately cause their downfall. Then in the OT trilogy the extreme darkside users, sith, bring about the new Jedi (Luke), which ultimately causes their downfall. Then it seems like after the fall of the empire it was a time of great light again, but then the First-Order, likely Sith or following Sith teachings, caused the Light's downfall again with the destruction of Luke's new Jedi Temple and Luke going into "hiding". Then we have the emergence of Rey, who appears to be poised to cause the downfall of the Darkside again. It seems like a pattern of balancing through extremes, with the focus being on the Skywalkers, keeps happening and a new path is necessary. Star-Wars Rebels is also exploring other potential paths as well with characters like the Bendu and combining both Sith and Jedi holocrons, and so on. So I think that idea is in the minds of the writers involved in the new canon.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rindaman (Jan 25, 2017)

Let's not kid ourselves , they'll never be able to replace the term Jedi in the mythology.  Even the Sith is just put on the shelf until further notice.  Rumor has it the Knights Of Ren aren't even the new Darksider equivalent , but rather just Kylo's gang who may  not even be Force Sensitive.


Cool title but hollow in it's meaning if the Jedi as a institution remains beyond the ST.  More interested in how KK plans to develop a Mary Sue who's already perfect than watching them set us back another 100 years to Slavery with whatever buffonery she has Rian put Finn through this time around.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 25, 2017)

bruh that Finn bait and switch...unforgivable

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Stunna (Jan 25, 2017)

Rindaman said:


> Let's not kid ourselves , they'll never be able to replace the term Jedi in the mythology.


tbh I don't think that'll be their intention


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

VAK said:


> Bruv it was a joke and basically yeh because not making him a master probably drove him over the edge thanks to ham giving the prick abandonment issues


Sounds like a retread of the Anakin storyline .

I don't buy it .


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## Jake CENA (Jan 25, 2017)

Rey and Koba's kid will be a force sensitive gorilla leading to a cross over Star Wars x Planets of the Apes movie


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## Stunna (Jan 25, 2017)

TerminaTHOR said:


> Rey and Koba's kid will be a force sensitive gorilla leading to a cross over Star Wars x Planets of the Apes movie


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 25, 2017)

You should never try to say anything funny, because that's what you're not.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

Seriously....

This guy is about as funny as ass cancer


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## Jake CENA (Jan 25, 2017)

finn looks like koba lol


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## Skaddix (Jan 25, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> bruh that Finn bait and switch...unforgivable



Wasnt just the bait and switch buh...that was bad enough. Add that to fact he was pure comic relief, always got his ass kicked and was constantly shown up by everyone from Han to Poe and from Rey to TR-8R.

Fuck KK, first we got Finn and then we got Saw (crazy old black guy) despite the fact the character should be under 40.

I want George back at least I got Lando and Windu.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 25, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> bruh that Finn bait and switch...unforgivable


Finn is a jedi, bro

"black excellence" bro

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Legend (Jan 26, 2017)

Finn will have his moments in this, I really believe that


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## Skaddix (Jan 26, 2017)

Whatever you have to tell yourself Legend.

I am firmly in the Fool Me Once Shame On Me, Fool Me Twice Shame On You Camp. 

So I will wait for the spoilers.


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## Legend (Jan 26, 2017)

Finn's actor is getting shredded for Pacific Rim 2.

I want a New Jedi Order, one less lax and oblivious than the old one.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 26, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 26, 2017)

Not the question I'd ask when seeing her entering my trailer in a bath robe.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 26, 2017)

i would objectively ruin Ms Ridley for all other men; but if i'm honest, something about her character prevents me from sexualizing her all that much...


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## Mider T (Jan 26, 2017)

He's such an awkward man...why do people act and sound like this?

Also, she isn't hot there.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Stringer (Jan 26, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Also, she isn't hot there.


must be that grandma robe she's wearing, the heavy makeup also doesn't do her facial features justice

I don't like it when girls with natural beauty ruin their face like that

but who am I kidding, wouldn't stop me from going balls deep on that ass


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 26, 2017)

Thorin said:


> can someone explain the title?


Not at this moment, no.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 26, 2017)

Thorin said:


> can someone explain the title?



I assume it's about Luke, for now. He is even addressed in that way in TFA's opening crawl text during it's first paragraph.

I think Mark Hamill or someone has said that it evokes a kind of "the last samurai" feeling as well but I can't recall where I read this at the moment.


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## Legend (Jan 26, 2017)

Daisy is just cute


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 26, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## Stringer (Jan 26, 2017)

Gesy plz 

you're better than than that

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## A. Waltz (Jan 26, 2017)

damn she sounds pissed off half way through lmao


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## A. Waltz (Jan 26, 2017)

Stringer said:


> must be that grandma robe she's wearing, the heavy makeup also doesn't do her facial features justice
> 
> I don't like it when girls with natural beauty ruin their face like that
> 
> but who am I kidding, wouldn't stop me from going balls deep on that ass


lol she's come out about how insecure her skin makes her feel cuz she gets really really bad acne so to guys like you she'll probably look better w/ makeup than w/ none where u can see acne scars ect.

also that bathrobe is hot wtf

she looks fucking hot in this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stringer (Jan 26, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> lol she's come out about how insecure her skin makes her feel cuz she gets really really bad acne *so to guys like you she'll probably look better w/ makeup than w/ none where u can see acne scars ect.*


what do you mean _''to guys like me''_? 

on the contrary, there's no trait I find more attractive in a woman than self-confidence -- realisticly in the business she is _(and with that info you just gave me)_ it's probably better for her to wear some makeup to cover that insecurity, but I'd personally overlook something like that if the girl has an awesome personality

I'm not one of those nerds that pretend they only sleep with 10/10 girls



> also that bathrobe is hot wtf
> 
> she looks fucking hot in this


hot is not the first word that comes to mind when I see her in that grandma getup lol


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## A. Waltz (Jan 26, 2017)

Stringer said:


> what do you mean _''to guys like me''_?
> 
> on the contrary, there's no trait I find more attractive in a woman than self-confidence -- realisticly in the business she is _(and with that info you just gave me)_ it's probably better for her to wear some makeup to cover that insecurity, but I'd personally overlook something like that if the girl has an awesome personality
> 
> ...


"guys like you" as in guys that critique women's appearance 





> the heavy makeup also doesn't do her facial features justice
> 
> *I don't like it when girls *with natural beauty ruin their face like that
> *but* who am I kidding,* wouldn't stop me* from going balls deep on that ass



i mean if you're willing to criticize her for too much makeup and shit you'd probably criticize her for her acne too, which she herself has said makes her cry and shit cuz of how insecure it makes her feel and how physically painful it is


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 27, 2017)

The Last Jedi is an okay title conceptually but it makes no sense to place it in the middle of the trilogy like this is basically my problem with it

I don't care how you try and justify it by discussing the actual meaning, what matters is the immediate reaction to it which is that it's really cliche and leads the mind down a really cliche path in terms of the expected plotting. If you stop to think about it then yeah sure the title doesn't actually mean anything at all and reveals no details as to what's going to happen but then you're stuck with another question, if the Title doesn't mean anything why is it the title?

They've already used up the "an ancient power" theme of titling with The Force Awakens and you can't use the exact same in the second movie lol

tl;dr The Last Jedi sounds like it should be either the first or last in a series or that it should be a stand alone movie, placing it in the middle is just dumb

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stringer (Jan 27, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> "guys like you" as in guys that critique women's appearance
> 
> i mean if you're willing to criticize her for too much makeup and shit you'd probably criticize her for her acne too, which she herself has said makes her cry and shit cuz of how insecure it makes her feel and how physically painful it is


shut ur ass up with that pc bullshit, will ya

I mean if anything -- saying that a chick is abusing makeup and would look better *without it* is actually showing appreciation for her natural beauty

also told you I wouldn't give a darn about her acne unless she looks an ogre under that makeup, which I highly doubt


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 27, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> The Last Jedi is an okay title conceptually but it makes no sense to place it in the middle of the trilogy like this is basically my problem with it
> 
> I don't care how you try and justify it by discussing the actual meaning, what matters is the immediate reaction to it which is that it's really cliche and leads the mind down a really cliche path in terms of the expected plotting. If you stop to think about it then yeah sure the title doesn't actually mean anything at all and reveals no details as to what's going to happen but then you're stuck with another question, if the Title doesn't mean anything why is it the title?
> 
> ...



Eh, the mind was going down those cliché paths before the title reveal (They're considered cliché ideas for a reason ) .No theory that's being uttered now are new or revolutionary . it also sounds very premature to be saying this no_w_ without A)knowing what title entails,  or B) what the thirds title will be, or even C) where the story is going .

tl;dr It's a bit too early to be coming to such conclusions without knowing a thing about the movie or its meaning . All we got is how it _sounds_ (which may change after viewing the film ).


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> tl;dr It's a bit too early to be coming to such conclusions without knowing a thing about the movie or its meaning . All we got is how it _sounds_ (which may change after viewing the film ).



imo that's the purpose of the _title _tho


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 27, 2017)

Stringer said:


> also told you I wouldn't give a darn about her acne unless she looks an ogre under that makeup, which I highly doubt


Acne wouldn't turn you off but the robe would ?

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Stringer (Jan 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Acne wouldn't turn you off but the robe would ?


lies

quote where I said her robe would stop me or I rest my case


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 27, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> imo that's the purpose of the _title _tho


So you're a "judge a book by the cover" type, huh?

 I'm sure the staff knew what would be the expected ideas a title such as this one would generate, and this  is quite likely a misdirection technique .


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> So you're a "judge a book by the cover" type, huh?



no?

the point is that the title evokes meaning in the audience because everything about a work evokes meaning in the audience, if you have a nonsensical title then the audience will be confused or won't understand what you're trying to do, sometimes this can be a good thing if it's the intent of the text but if it's meant to be straightforward and isn't so then that's an issue.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 27, 2017)

Stringer said:


> shut ur ass up with that pc bullshit, will ya
> 
> I mean if anything -- saying that a chick is abusing makeup and would look better *without it* is actually showing appreciation for her natural beauty
> 
> also told you I wouldn't give a darn about her acne unless she looks an ogre under that makeup, which I highly doubt



im sure saying that you'd rape her and that nothing would stop you shows a lot of appreciation for her natural beauty, but sure go ahead and brag about what a Good Guy you are


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## Stringer (Jan 27, 2017)

wait, how did this turn into rape talk?

what's wrong with this kid


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## Mider T (Jan 27, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 27, 2017)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> no?
> 
> the point is that the title evokes meaning in the audience because everything about a work evokes meaning in the audience, if you have a nonsensical title then the audience will be confused or won't understand what you're trying to do, sometimes this can be a good thing if it's the intent of the text but if it's meant to be straightforward and isn't so then that's an issue.


I disagree with this philosophy . There are many occasions when a title meant little to nothing to a piece of work . The title is there to   clue the audience on a theme , or is simply there to evoke interest .

I've never heard of a title being so significant that it _confuses  _the audience on the work.  One may be confused as to what the title's _connection _to the work may be(basically just wondering "why was it titled this way?"). But title and text are usually compartmentalized.


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## Stunna (Jan 27, 2017)

Titles matter, but tbh I don't think this case is that deep


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## Mider T (Jan 27, 2017)

I'm sure what Nighty meant here is that Blue Harvest would have been a more apt title.

Since we're all jumping to conclusions here anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stunna (Jan 27, 2017)

This convo reminds me of the part in the Plinkett TPM review where he took a little time to criticize the title iirc

I thought that part was a stretch.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 28, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> bruh that Finn bait and switch...unforgivable



I think that it was a very clever tactic to make Finn seem to be the main character, but then have it actually be Rey; other stories have done it, as well: for example, an initial viewing of _Tengen Toppa Gureen Lagann_ would lead one to believe that Kamina was the main protagonist, when that role actually belongs to Simon; in _A Song of Ice and Fire,_ Ned Stark seems to be the central protagonist, but it is actually his son, Jon Snow, who holds that role (mostly, because there is no singular central character in that series).



Legend said:


> Finn will have his moments in this, I really believe that



Yes, I am certain that Finn shall awaken from his coma and be totally awesome in this film; if he was going to die, the writers would have killed him, so the fact that they left him alive is a fairly strong indication that he shall play an important role later.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 28, 2017)

Finn _was_ a main character...but he was comic relief and wasn't a force sensitive. Hell man he wasn't even a _good_ trooper he was a Janitor.


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## Skaddix (Jan 28, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Finn _was_ a main character...but he was comic relief and wasn't a force sensitive. Hell man he wasn't even a _good_ trooper he was a Janitor.



Worse then Peeta at least Peeta had zero training and got the girl. Finn has 20 years still sucks and probably wont get the girl. Fuck KK


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Finn _was_ a main character...but he was comic relief and *wasn't a force sensitive.* Hell man he wasn't even a _good_ trooper he was a Janitor.



I still maintain that Finn must have some level of force sensitivity, akin to Chirrut Imwe, because he did not injure himself with the lightsaber and was able to hold his own against Kylo Ren for at least a short duration (compare how Finn fared against Kylo Ren to how Jange Fett fared against Mace Windu).


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## Stunna (Jan 29, 2017)

Come on, DDJ.

You don't need to be an FS to use a lightsaber, you just need to be an FS to use it proficiently, which Finn didn't.

Also, Kylo was toying with Finn, whereas Mace went in for the kill against Jango (who was also using a projectile weapon.)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2017)

Stunna said:


> You don't need to be an FS to use a lightsaber, you just need to be an FS to use it proficiently, which Finn didn't.
> 
> Also, Kylo was toying with Finn, whereas Mace went in for the kill against Jango (who was also using a projectile weapon.)



Yes, that does make sense.


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## Mider T (Jan 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Ned Stark seems to be the central protagonist, but it is actually *his son,* Jon Snow,


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2017)

Mider T said:


>



Until Martin says otherwise, Jon Snow is Ned's son (especially considering that Jon is remarkably similar in appearance to Ned), but I do believe that the fact that the identity of Jon's mother has not yet been revealed is fairly obvious foreshadowing that she is a character of great importance.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~VK~ (Jan 29, 2017)

A. Waltz said:


> "guys like you" as in guys that critique women's appearance
> 
> i mean if you're willing to criticize her for too much makeup and shit you'd probably criticize her for her acne too, which she herself has said makes her cry and shit cuz of how insecure it makes her feel and how physically painful it is





A. Waltz said:


> im sure saying that you'd rape her and that nothing would stop you shows a lot of appreciation for her natural beauty, but sure go ahead and brag about what a Good Guy you are


i'm sorry, i think you're lost. let me help you:

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Mider T (Jan 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> but I do believe that the fact that the identity of Jon's mother has not yet been revealed


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## BlazingInferno (Jan 29, 2017)

Go back to your factory, Robot san.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 29, 2017)

where is the facepalm rating/reaction -__-

Reactions: Like 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2017)

Mider T said:


>



As soon as I saw this, I checked online to see if any information had been revealed on that subject, and the television series has established that
*Spoiler*: __ 



Jon's parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, which was a common theory among the fans,


but it should be noted that the television series has been departing from the books on numerous occasions, because Martin has been writing the books too slowly, so the writers of the television series have been writing new material, which means that anything that happens in the television series is not canon to the books, akin to how the _Harry Potter_ films departed from the books on numerous occasions. Given how hugely popular the television series is, currently, I hope that Martin does not allow himself to be influenced but it; he should continue to write the story as he has planned to, and not alter it to suit the television series.


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## The Runner (Jan 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> in _A Song of Ice and Fire,_ Ned Stark seems to be the central protagonist, but it is actually his son, Jon Snow, who holds that role (mostly, because there is no singular central character in that series).


double bait and switch with this one, I should add

First people thought it was Ned, then people thought it was _Robb
_
Then... you know


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## Mider T (Jan 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> As soon as I saw this, I checked online to see if any information had been revealed on that subject, and the television series has established that
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



The TV series has only thus far confirmed that Lyanna is Jon's mother (therefore Ned isn't his father).  Rhaegar is so strongly hinted to be Jon's father that its pretty much all but stated.  With the info the books have given us, we can safely assume the same in that medium as well.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 29, 2017)

Sir Jogga said:


> double bait and switch with this one, I should add
> 
> First people thought it was Ned, then people thought it was _Robb
> _
> Then... you know



Yes, I forgot about Robb, but the fact that he never had a chapter from his point of view should have been raised suspicion about his chances of survival.



Mider T said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> The TV series has only thus far confirmed that Lyanna is Jon's mother (therefore Ned isn't his father).  Rhaegar is so strongly hinted to be Jon's father that its pretty much all but stated.  With the info the books have given us, we can safely assume the same in that medium as well.



I would find that theory to be easier to believe if
*Spoiler*: __ 



Rahegar's confirmed son, Aegon VI, had not been revealed to be alive. I believe that Martin devised that twist as a way of debunking the theory that Jon is Rhaegar's son without explicitly saying so, because having two sons of Rhaegar being alive would be redundant. Also, Jon does not have the violet eyes that are the distinguishing trait of the Targaryens, which is another factor against that theory.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 30, 2017)

Reminder that in the books R+L=D and N+A=J

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Legend (Jan 30, 2017)




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## Atlas (Jan 30, 2017)

Almost thought I was in a GoT thread for a second.


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## Legend (Jan 30, 2017)

Rey is Arya


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## Legend (Jan 30, 2017)

Luke is Syrio
Kylo is Joffrey


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## dr_shadow (Feb 4, 2017)

Stop posting GoT spoilers you bitches!!!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~VK~ (Feb 4, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Stop posting GoT spoilers you bitches!!!


this. i come here for star wars news and leave with GoT spoiled to me. fuck you guys tbh tbf.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Indra (Feb 14, 2017)

Going to be really disappointed if Finn isn't at least stated to be force sensitive in the Movie. I don't expect him to be a training Jedi in this film, as its core story is obviously about Rey and Luke.

But they will do my boy some injustice if he remains a regular human. I mean he literally has the backstory and the story in the film for it to work.

>  Finn doesn't know his parents because he was taken by the First Order to be a stormtropper (meaning you can write up him up to being connected to the force just because he doesn't know, and we don't know).

>  Finn was able to shake the mind control of the FO, he defected from years of brain washing since he was a child in not wanting to participate in blindness murder.

> Kylo sensed that something was off with the Storm-Trooper (Finn) during the Jakku mission. Later Kylo had a conversation with Snoke about a disturbance in the force (I know this is wishful thinking, but I'm just pointing out how fucking easy it is to write this shit up).

I mean when they told Kylo that one of ST's stole a ship, he immediately knew it was Finn.

There's more examples I'm sure, but I am just going off the top of my head.

----


Anyway I'll be disappointed if his character is reduced to more shit so that Reynakin Suewaker can continue parading around doing things perfectly, and Angstlo Ren can continue to show us how bad the villains are this time around.

Seriously my biggest gripe with the film has to be Kylo Ren. His character is eons bound by stupidity in the choices he makes, and they try to force the comparisons too.

"There's too much Vader in him"

Just no. Anakin was not a spoiled little bitch who decided to defect cause mommy and daddy were busy. His Grandfather was born a fucking slave, later found by a Jedi master, and then decided to leave his mother who later got tortured by Tusken Raiders. Which mainly was the turning point to the dark side in my opinion, because it left his heart open and vulnerable to everything around him; In terms of emotions.

Kylo Ren is a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) plain and simple. I don't hate Rey but I find her character too boring to actually enjoy for now, she's cute though.

Finn and Poe were the only interesting characters but their roles in the story bothers me to great extent. Sigh.

Welp looks like I'm only in it for Luke.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Feb 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> Kylo sensed that something was off with the Storm-Trooper (Finn) during the Jakku mission.


He sensed a wavering in Finn's resolve, not that Finn was a FS.


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## Indra (Feb 14, 2017)

Stunna said:


> He sensed a wavering in Finn's resolve, not that Finn was a FS.


I know he sensed something was off, but I did not imply that based on that he was a force sensitive in the making. 

Still we have to state that its pretty easy given the circumstances to make it seem so.


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## Legend (Feb 14, 2017)

Even if he is FS he doesnt need to be a Jedi


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 15, 2017)

No one will be jedi after this movie (allegedly)

But don't give him powers if he isn't going to use it. I'm ok with him being a different kind of badass .


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## Indra (Feb 15, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> No one will be jedi after this movie (allegedly)
> 
> But don't give him powers if he isn't going to use it. I'm ok with him being a different kind of badass .


Agreed.

I just feel like they'll make him useless after he did so much in TFA, but still very little.


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 15, 2017)

Finn is definitely not gonna become a force user, it would take away our snowflake's limelight after all.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 15, 2017)

How is he going to be a badass? He had what 20 years of training in the FO and couldnt beat snowflake or random trooper TR8R. The Force is about the only thing that could justify him becoming more badass. Cause you dont suck after 20 years of training and suddenly become a great fighter.

Boner is right the character is fucked because KK is a Racist Bitch who only cares about propping up her snowflake who got all the skills, all the wins and all the iconic loot. Finn got all the shit, all the jokes and all the Ls. I mean really why should I care about him fighting Phasma when she was a joke last time. You get a black male lead and suddenly the rules change...he doesnt need wins, he doesnt need to get the girl, and he doesnt need to get revenge on the Big Bad. FUCK OFF. Beyond that his personality isn't even consistent with his backstory. And without the Force, him breaking conditioning makes about zero sense.

They call George a racist. At least Jar Jar had deniability being an Alien. Plus who take Finn and Saw over Lando and Mace. Anyone?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 15, 2017)

Nah, Finn is known for being a really good shot. This was shown numerous times in TFA.And Boyega confirmed that Finn's role will be significant . I'll pass judgment after this film .


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## Skaddix (Feb 15, 2017)

Really they emphasized Han was a great shot they didnt emphasize it


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 15, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 16, 2017)

> *"The first Star Wars Force Friday event was truly unique, uniting fans across five continents in an unprecedented global live unboxing event ahead of thousands of midnight openings at retail," *said Jimmy Pitaro, chairman, Disney Consumer Products and Interactive Media. *"We’re excited to confirm that Star Wars Force Friday is back for The Last Jedi. Plans for this year’s worldwide event are top secret, but expect something befitting the excitement around the next episode of the Star Wars saga."*


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## Legend (Feb 16, 2017)

Looks like Leia

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 16, 2017)




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## Legend (Feb 16, 2017)

She cute

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Feb 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Nah, Finn is known for being a really good shot. This was shown numerous times in TFA.And Boyega confirmed that Finn's role will be significant . I'll pass judgment after this film .


I'll pass gas right after this film.  Crop dust after the end of the movie but before the post-credits scene.  #winning!


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 16, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 17, 2017)

Released by Lucasfilm, this could put an end to the "is Jedi there in singular or plural" debate because this one, along with other international logos, puts it as plural.


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## Rukia (Feb 17, 2017)

Look.  I get that Jar Jar is a terrible movie character.  But it's fucking wrong to turn him into a banished clown.  He didn't deserve that shit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 17, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Look.  I get that Jar Jar is a terrible movie character.  But it's fucking wrong to turn him into a banished clown.  He didn't deserve that shit.


were did you get that he was banished?
he became a senator of Naboo and has probably died of old age already


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## Rukia (Feb 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> were did you get that he was banished?
> he became a senator of Naboo and has probably died of old age already


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 17, 2017)

hmm, the ending is oddly appropriate considering that when we 1st meet him he had also been exiled from his people for some fuckup or other...


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## Legend (Feb 17, 2017)

He deserves death.

Also, I called it being Plural


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## Skaddix (Feb 18, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Look.  I get that Jar Jar is a terrible movie character.  But it's fucking wrong to turn him into a banished clown.  He didn't deserve that shit.



Yeah that is just KK sucking up to the PT Haters. Gotta keep them happy so she has a base to defend complaints about her love of British Brunette Mary Sues. 

I agree was Jar Jar bad sure. But come on that is fate worse then death for a character who while annoying wasnt evil and did actually help the heroes for the most part. He is hardly the one played by Palpatine.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rukia (Feb 18, 2017)

Good post Skaddix.


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## ~M~ (Feb 18, 2017)

Legend said:


> She cute


No

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 18, 2017)

Oh and I forgot against Subpar Men of Color Leads and No Women of Color.

I mean come on 2 movies already and the male lead doesnt get the White Chick. Yeah Yeah Finn at least has 2 more chances. But Andor cant close the deal?

And as for Black Males. Look at Saw under Lucas in the TCW and look at him under KK. Night and Day.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 18, 2017)

More surprising that Palpatine didn't got him executed.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 22, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Rukia (Feb 22, 2017)

Rogue One April 4th.


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## Atlas (Feb 22, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Rogue One April 4th.


Where at?


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## Rukia (Feb 22, 2017)

No no man.  I'm talking about Blu Ray release.  I was complaining a couple of days ago that I was ready to own the movie, but stupid ass Disney hadn't given us a release date yet.

And wham!  Here we go!  That complaint has been addressed.  


And the question I would have asked Daisy.  "Was Harrison Ford a terrible pilot during the filming of The Force Awakens?  Or was he able to fake it?"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Atlas (Feb 22, 2017)

Been ready to preorder it since I watched it.


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## Roman (Feb 23, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Can you imagine _X-Men_ without mutants



Think of it more like X-Men without Xavier's academy. You still have mutants, just not working for the same organization/studying in the same school. Same thing here. You still have Force users, but they just won't be Jedi and Sith like in the past.

Legends has always had various groups of Force users with different philosophies. Even in Disney canon, there are groups with a different philosophy, like the Nightsisters. They were proficient in the Dark Side as well as knowledge of alchemy that potentially rivalled that of the ancient Sith. This could be the beginning of a new group of Force users who align themselves with the light but take on a more flexible approach.

Think Ahsoka Tahno. She's definitely rooted in the light and is powerful enough to rival with many high-tier Jedi Masters despite not actually being a Jedi (as shown by her most recent battle with Vader in which she fared much better than many other Jedi). Another example of a so called gray Jedi from legends canon is Kyle Katarn, who needs no explanation.

(Mah girl Ahsoka better be alive or I swear )


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 23, 2017)

It would be nice if the _Eclipse_ super star destroyer appeared in this film, because that would be a nice departure from having yet another reincarnation of the Death Star, although, given that the destruction of the Starkiller base was a crippling loss for the First Order, I doubt that they shall have the resources to build such a vehicle. With that being said, if the First Order is supposedly nowhere near as large and powerful as the empire, how did it build a base even more massive than the Death Star? I know that they used an existing planet, while the Death Star was built entirely from nothing, but it still strains credibility.


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## Skaddix (Feb 23, 2017)

Oh No Doubt. First Order built a planet sized weapon in under 20 years. With Far Less Resources Then The Empire. I would have much preferred a KOTOR style sneak attack with the First Order hoping out of hyperspace and launching a sneak attack.


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## Roman (Feb 24, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Oh No Doubt. First Order built a planet sized weapon in under 20 years. With Far Less Resources Then The Empire. I would have much preferred a KOTOR style sneak attack with the First Order hoping out of hyperspace and launching a sneak attack.



Also kinda like what Desann did in Jedi Outcast. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



He tricked Kyle into returning to the Valley of the Jedi to get its location. Desann then used the Valley to empower his followers and grant them affinity to use the Force on top of mining force-imbued crystals to create armors that strengthened his followers' connection to the Force once they gained Force powers from the Valley.

He worked with an imperial commander to create a super star destroyer which carried large space pods that would drop from the ship and onto the target planet after dropping out of hyperspace. That was a very ingenious way to carry out a ground-based surprise attack. It wouldn't have had the devastating effect that Starkiller base had but it would've made for a more interesting final battle scene with stuff happening on the ground and in space.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 24, 2017)

the funny thing is that 1st Order didn't even _need_ the planet canon...the Republic has a weak military which is why the resistance exists in the first place. Disney just made JJ add Starkiller base for 'poetry cuz it rhymes' reasons.


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## Skaddix (Feb 24, 2017)

Pretty much. 

Course, people love their Sue and Classic Rehash so much they will ignore all the flaws.

I mean think about this Rey, Lor with Map, and the Falcon all just happen to be on the same planet, with apparently zero connection to each other.

Meanwhile ANH has none of that. Kenobi is the planet watching Luke and R2-D2 knows where Kenobi is. Makes perfect sense all these characters run into each other.


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 24, 2017)

fucking Millennium Falcon on the same planet too


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## DemonDragonJ (Feb 25, 2017)

I wonder if Kylo Ren will redeem himself at the end of this new trilogy? I hope that he does, because I do not feel that he is completely evil, but a friend of mine stated that that would be too similar to Darth Vader redeeming himself, which the original trilogy strongly implied was a rare miracle (with both Obi-Wan and Yoda saying that once a person turned to the dark side, it was impossible to return from it), and I also would like to state that Jacen Solo, after whom Kylo Ren is clearly modeled, never redeemed himself, so Kylo Ren's chances of redemption do not look very good, at this moment.



Skaddix said:


> I mean think about this Rey, Lor with Map, and the Falcon all just happen to be on the same planet, with apparently zero connection to each other.



One could theoretically say that it was the will of the force that they all met at that location, but that explanation is far too often used to explain coincidences in this franchise, so I would rather that it not be used, in this case.



Skaddix said:


> Meanwhile ANH has none of that. Kenobi is the planet watching Luke and R2-D2 knows where Kenobi is. Makes perfect sense all these characters run into each other.



That is true, except that that information was not revealed until later, so it seemed to be a coincidence, at first.


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## Skaddix (Feb 25, 2017)

Not really you find out Kenobi knew Luke's Father. It was all told in the First Movie.

Its not that they are all on the same planet its them all being on the same planet in close distance with apparently no connection. 

If Rey was raised by Lor then it be way better.

But no they wanted  a Strong Independent Woman who needed no help to be great at fucking everything.


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## Skaddix (Feb 25, 2017)

Leia was great. 
Padme declined as the trilogy went on. 
Erso...Meh. 

If your asking me if I consider the rest Sues then the answer would be no.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 26, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> But no they wanted a Strong Independent Woman who needed no help to be great at fucking everything.



Luke Skywalker made a one-in-a-million shot at high-speeds in an X-Wing he was flying for the first time and blow up the Death Star, was just a farm boy but was able to fight his way out of a military installation filled with armed Stormtroopers, and then use the Falcon's guns (and Stormtrooper blasters) without any military training.  

Anakin Skywalker built a fully functioning EPO protocol droid out of spare parts, built a functional Pod Racer _*and can fly Pod Racing vehicles, *_was able to quickly adapt to fly a Naboo Starfighter and through sheer luck is able to survive a pitched space battle and blow up the reactor of the Droid Control Ship.  All at the tender age of nine years old.  

Rey is completely average compared to the Tatooine boys.  The one thing they have in common is their unusually strong connection to the Force, a power which we know helps guide the actions of and empowers those who are able to draw upon it.

But if this is about how she was able to use the Force to beat Kylo Ren, do recall that Finn had managed to injure him when he fought him, Chewbacca shot a hole through his side, *and* was also imbalanced from killing his own father.


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## Kuromaku (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm still on the fence on whether Rey was a Sue, but she really was questionably handled compared to the Skywalkers.

Luke made the shot after the movie had previously set up the entire thing about his use of the force (1. Learning to block shots without seeing them->2. Trusting in the force and turning off the targeting computer->3. Making that million-to-one shot). Furthermore, he was able to fight somewhat due to knowing how to use a blaster by virtue of having a SW-equivalent to a redneck upbringing (note the rifle he carries on Tatooine). However, aside from that, he mostly manages to blunder his way to success before Leia takes over, the droids save their hides, and Obi-Wan sacrifices himself prior to Vader letting them escape to lead the Empire to the Rebel base.

Anakin was the Chosen One, which meant that the universe had to bend over backwards for him (and even then, people criticized Lucas for his writing decisions). And even here, he blunders his way to success at the end.

Rey being a whiz with mechanics is fine, and knowing how to fight is fine, because both are set up. I can even excuse the flying because of the Force and the story acknowledging this. However, unlike the other two, she suddenly develops the ability to read minds, mess with them, use telekinesis, and stomp on a trained duelist (whose wounds and psychological condition were to some extent balanced out, by word of JJ, by the pain strengthening Kylo's connection to the dark side) after briefly tapping into the Force. Had it been a closer fight, that would have been fine, but she outright dominates. As for the Force abilities, compare that to Luke slowly learning different skills and still blundering for the most part, while in the first movie, his use of the Force in that one way was set up. To top that, the story never really puts her in peril, gives her any real flaws, and when rescued, she's doing fine staying hidden instead of needing to be rescued outright.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 27, 2017)

@Kuromaku By all accounts, she is a third-generation Skywalker.  The connection with Ben is already established; we're just waiting on the second movie to confirm.  

And she does have flaws: 

Attachment - until Maz Kanata directly confronts her with her own doubts after coming into contact with Anakin's Lightsaber, Rey intended to go back to Jakku at the first opportunity after dropping BB-8 off.  She then runs off after Maz insists she be part of the greater destiny her connection to the lightsaber draws her to, which leads to her being isolated and then captured by Kylo Ren.  

Anger - She was perilously close to killing Kylo Ren when she had defeated him, and was very much driven by Han's death, even calling Ben a monster.  

As for the rest of her skills, she did grow up on her own on a desert planet with many outside visitors, unscrupulous folk that would necessitate her learning to defend herself, and her catching on to how to use the Force was through Kylo Ren invading her mind first.  

NOTE: The Universe didn't so much bend over backwards for Anakin so much as it put him through the grinder.


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## Kuromaku (Feb 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> @Kuromaku By all accounts, she is a third-generation Skywalker.  The connection with Ben is already established; we're just waiting on the second movie to confirm.



She probably is a Skywalker given the pattern of the series, although they might surprise us given the amount of time devoted to Ben.



> And she does have flaws:
> 
> Attachment - until Maz Kanata directly confronts her with her own doubts after coming into contact with Anakin's Lightsaber, Rey intended to go back to Jakku at the first opportunity after dropping BB-8 off.  She then runs off after Maz insists she be part of the greater destiny her connection to the lightsaber draws her to, which leads to her being isolated and then captured by Kylo Ren.



This isn't much of a flaw (although it is one, albeit a short-lived one) given that it's basically a callback to Luke and Anakin showing reluctance to leave their lives as per the Refusal of the Call stage in the Hero's Journey. Even then it doesn't really lead to her character suffering given that she easily escapes Kylo once at SB. By the end of the movie, it's not a real issue given that she has conquered the Threshold Guardian.



> Anger - She was perilously close to killing Kylo Ren when she had defeated him, and was very much driven by Han's death, even calling Ben a monster.



Not a flaw. Any character who isn't meant to come off as detached or sociopathic would react in a similar manner. It's not a flaw to want revenge for someone killing a loved one. If wrath was a flaw, then it would have to be to the point where it negatively impacts the character (see Ahab in _Moby Dick_).

These attempts at "flaws" call to mind romantic comedies where the female protagonist is nice and maybe naive (actual flaw), but then the story tries to say that her flaw is her clumsiness (which one, isn't a real flaw, and two, never really impacts the story in a meaningful way). A genuine character flaw is a shortcoming that is actually meant to be seen as such to the extent where it negatively impacts the character's attempts at achieving their goals.

Anakin was arrogant and prone to attachment, with these flaws outright causing his fall to the dark side.

Luke was a more archetypical character, but even then, he was rash and stubborn, leading to his blundering on the Death Star, having trouble with his Jedi training with Yoda, and getting his ass kicked by Vader before he was truly ready to face a Sith Lord. It's only in ROTJ that he becomes more reactive and open to possibilities, trying to redeem Anakin even as his rashness and attachments almost cause him to fall himself.



> As for the rest of her skills, she did grow up on her own on a desert planet with many outside visitors, unscrupulous folk that would necessitate her learning to defend herself, and her catching on to how to use the Force was through Kylo Ren invading her mind first.



I already brought up her fighting skills, her mechanical knowledge, and her piloting, and explained why they work. The comparison I made to Luke in ANH was there to point out that rather than setting things up and then having payoff as Luke did, Rey simply wound up learning new skills on a dime without really being tested. Had one of these skills in the Force been set up and given payoff, there wouldn't be any real issue in terms of her use of the Force. As for having her mind read, that might justify mind reading, but how would it relate to other skills? That had set-up. Telekinesis and mind control, not so much. 



> NOTE: The Universe didn't so much bend over backwards for Anakin so much as it put him through the grinder.



That was the point of Anakin. The universe bends over backwards to an extent in that he was extremely lucky early on and was amazingly talented, with any misfortune he did suffer combining with his insecurities and arrogance (as a result of said talent) to ruin his life. He's what happens when a Chosen One with all the expected skills is forced into a stifling environment and lacks a figure who can help him overcome the character flaws that are to be expected in such a prodigal talent.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 27, 2017)

Kuromaku said:


> Not a flaw. Any character who isn't meant to come off as detached or sociopathic would react in a similar manner. It's not a flaw to want revenge for someone killing a loved one. If wrath was a flaw, then it would have to be to the point where it negatively impacts the character (see Ahab in _Moby Dick_).



You do realize Rey is in the Star Wars Universe, yes?  Anger is a very dangerous thing for a Force-sensitive if they genuinely act on that anger.  Recall Luke in "Return of the Jedi"?  Overcoming it was crucial to Luke going against what the Emperor wanted and not falling to the Dark Side.  Recall Anakin in "Attack of the Clones"?  That was the start of Anakin's fall into darkness after he massacred the entire Tusken Raider village. 

The planet split open to separate Rey from Ben before we could see what her final choice was, and the novel confirms that the Dark Side was tempting her at that point.  In Snoke's eyes, if that happened, he'd just replace Ben with Rey. 

As for her family, there is accepting that the family that abandoned her was never coming back to Jakku.  It will be another thing entirely if it turns out her father is *Luke.  *Skywalkers do not tend to take perceptions of their world shattering gently.

I'll judge Rey after the Sequel Trilogy ends.


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## Kuromaku (Feb 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You do realize Rey is in the Star Wars Universe, yes?  Anger is a very dangerous thing for a Force-sensitive if they genuinely act on that anger.  Recall Luke in "Return of the Jedi"?  Overcoming it was crucial to Luke going against what the Emperor wanted and not falling to the Dark Side.  Recall Anakin in "Attack of the Clones"?  That was the start of Anakin's fall into darkness after he massacred the entire Tusken Raider village.
> 
> The planet split open to separate Rey from Ben before we could see what her final choice was, and the novel confirms that the Dark Side was tempting her at that point.  In Snoke's eyes, if that happened, he'd just replace Ben with Rey.
> 
> As for her family, there is accepting that the family that abandoned her was never coming back to Jakku.  It will be another thing entirely if it turns out her father is *Luke.  *Skywalkers do not tend to take perceptions of their world shattering gently.



Here's the problem. First, we don't really get that in the movie. We see her overcome him, but the movie doesn't make as clear that Rey was really tempted. Compare that to how ROTJ treats Luke's outburst where everything from the music to the performances make clear that what is going on is a bad thing (Luke's blind flailing conveys his close call with the dark side far better than Rey focusing like a Jedi would and then dominating the fight). Only at the end do we get shots that imply what had to be made clear in the novelization (which falls second to what is in the movie itself). You could argue though that this was a testament less to weak writing than weak direction on JJ's part. Even then though, it's always a bad idea to argue with novelizations given that the movie comes first in defining exactly what happened.

Second, anger is itself not a bad thing in that Luke gets pissed after Obi-Wan is slain, but the story doesn't play this for him falling to the dark side (in part because the story wasn't planned out at that point). It's how the anger is played that is the issue. Again, anger is not and has never been a character flaw. Wrath on the other hand, is a possible flaw. Wrath, which features the normal emotion (not flaw, emotion) mutating into hate (which plays into the dark side), is a defining trait and flaw. It was wrath that defined Luke and Anakin tapping into the darkness. In this case, I am arguing semantics in that you argued "anger," when that is not a character flaw in itself.

Again, anger is not a flaw. It's only human. It's the flaws that feed into how that anger is managed that make up a character's flaws. Anakin had pride and dependence. Luke had rashness. Rey has no real flaws to work with at the moment. It's up to better writers to redeem her so that she's a real character rather than a role model.


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## Roman (Feb 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Luke Skywalker made a one-in-a-million shot at high-speeds in an X-Wing he was flying for the first time and blow up the Death Star, was just a farm boy but was able to fight his way out of a military installation filled with armed Stormtroopers, and then use the Falcon's guns (and Stormtrooper blasters) without any military training.
> 
> Anakin Skywalker built a fully functioning EPO protocol droid out of spare parts, built a functional Pod Racer _*and can fly Pod Racing vehicles, *_was able to quickly adapt to fly a Naboo Starfighter and through sheer luck is able to survive a pitched space battle and blow up the reactor of the Droid Control Ship. All at the tender age of nine years old.
> 
> ...



Luke had plenty of practice with such shots by his own admission. He even said the exhaust port was no bigger than the womp rats he would shoot with his T16 Skyhopper on Tatooine. Plus, he had the Force which gave him natural-born instincts. Considering Luke was even shown to have picked up how to use it to sense things in the movie, the shot on the Death Star's reactor made sense. And using the Falcon's guns without military training isn't nearly as bad as Rey piloting the Falcon and performing far more elaborate stunts with it than anything Han was ever seen to do.

That and the fact that neither of the Tatooine boys did anything as elaborate as a Jedi Mind Trick, something that's always been shown as a more advanced skill as only masters or at least fully trained Jedi were ever shown to perform (Qui Gon, Old Ben and ROTJ Luke). Yet Rey was able to do it with absolutely no formal Jedi training at all. Admittedly, Anakin was shown to do something similar on an animal and implied to be able to do an actual mind trick in AOTC but Anakin had a lot more Force talent than anyone and had skill which was on par with a lot of low-tier Jedi Masters as showcased by the fact that he survived Geonosis where many other masters died.

I agree that Anakin was exaggerated in TPM tho as well as the fact that Kylo being heavily injured by the bowcaster was the only reason Rey was able to beat him (tho it's still debatable as swordsmanship isn't something you can just "pick up" without any kind of instruction, even with the Force).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Luke Skywalker made a one-in-a-million shot at high-speeds in an X-Wing he was flying for the first time and blow up the Death Star, was just a farm boy but was able to fight his way out of a military installation filled with armed Stormtroopers, and then use the Falcon's guns (and Stormtrooper blasters) without any military training.
> 
> Anakin Skywalker built a fully functioning EPO protocol droid out of spare parts, built a functional Pod Racer _*and can fly Pod Racing vehicles, *_was able to quickly adapt to fly a Naboo Starfighter and through sheer luck is able to survive a pitched space battle and blow up the reactor of the Droid Control Ship.  All at the tender age of nine years old.
> 
> ...



Luke was an incomptent waste of space for most of ANH and opened the next movie getting shot down on Hoth. Luke a farm boy surely he shot a blaster before. He even talks about nailing rats. What farm boy cant shoot a gun? He didnt escape alone. he got saved by Obi, Leia, Han and R2-D2.

Anakin was a Gary Stu. No one disputes that.

Bitch Plz. Jedi Mind Trick Zero Training, Trained Force User owned in combat on first try, tells Han how to fix his own ship, ace pilot with no real flight experience outside a simulator apparently and expert melee combatant. All self taught apparently. If Rey made a mistake Finn paid the price and then Rey fixed it.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 27, 2017)

I wonder if you would be saying these same things if Rey was a man instead of a woman.  



Skaddix said:


> Bitch Plz. Jedi Mind Trick Zero Training, Trained Force User owned in combat on first try, tells Han how to fix his own ship, ace pilot with no real flight experience outside a simulator apparently and expert melee combatant. All self taught apparently. If Rey made a mistake Finn paid the price and then Rey fixed it.



Ah, so you can just claim Anakin is a Gary Stu and leave it at that, but you must tear apart Rey, *who has only been in one movie so far*, on...principle, I presume?

The Millennium Falcon had been modified in a way that Rey knew about, but Han didn't.  

But think the bigger issue is you have zero issue with justifying Luke using the Force to direct high-speed Proton Torpedoes into an opening *at a ninety-degree angle* to destroy a planet-destroying super-weapon by claiming him to be "an incompetent waste of space", while you have to take Rey apart to justify some unfounded hate.  

She didn't even know how to properly use the blaster Han handed her at first, *but Luke had zero issue with a military-issue Storm Trooper rile, a far cry from a farm boy's rifle.  *

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 27, 2017)

I dont think there is any debate over Anakin being a Stu. 
That is fucking obvious. Special Chosen One, Ace Pilot before his balls drop, and Super Genius Mechanic. Honestly, being a genius at mechanics is probably the most believable one funny enough.


Catalyst have you ever shot a gun before?  Its Blaster you dont even need to load and it has no kickback ergo its even easier then a real gun. You just need decent aim. Which Luke as a farm boy should have. Luke had one impressive feat the whole movie moving those torpedos after some training from Kenobi. 

In contrast Rey used a Jedi Mind Trick with zero training. Beat a trained force user with zero training. I should not Stu Anakin couldnt even win with Kenobi helping him and almost a decade of training in his first fight against Dooku. I rate Kylo's Injury via Bowcaster as about the same as a 2 v 1 and that is being generous. 

Here is the main difference though when Luke fucked up someone had to save his ass. Sand People, The Bar, The Escape Plan, Trash Compactor, Trench Run, Hoth and Cloud City. All cases where Luke fucked up and had to be bailed out by his teammates. Rey in contrast never paid when she fucked up. She either escaped just fine or Finn paid the price and then Rey fixed her own fuck up.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 27, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Which Luke as a farm boy should have. Luke had one impressive feat the whole movie moving those torpedos after some training from Kenobi.



Sure, and running through the goddamn Death Star and gunning down Storm Troopers and escaping is not impressive, nor is gunning down two TIE fighters with a weapons system he is using for the first time (again, no military training).



Skaddix said:


> I rate Kylo's Injury via Bowcaster as about the same as a 2 v 1 and that is being generous.



No, that is being biased.  Kylo Ren was wounded enough from that Bowcaster wound *THAT FINN WAS ABLE TO WOUND HIM.  *Yet I see you not screaming about Finn when a) Finn was just a regular Storm Trooper; b) even assuming he was Force-sensitive, he is not part of the Skywalker lineage; c) he is also able to use a Lightsaber effectively *against a trained Force user* with no training in using a Lightsaber himself, and without the Force to back him up.

Rey did make mistakes, *but fixing them on her own does not make her poorly written.  

*


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## Skaddix (Feb 27, 2017)

Storm Troopers are trash and have always been trash. Not sure what your point is Star Wars is not the first franchise or the last to have cannon fodder easily taken out. 

2 Feats then. 

Finn got his ask kicked all movie and you want to take away his one minor success? The easy explanation is Kylo was toying with Finn. 

Rey fixed all her own mistakes and never needed to be saved. Finn didnt fix any mistakes and always needed to be saved. Even Jar Jar got shit done be it by dumb luck.


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## The Runner (Feb 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I wonder if you would be saying these same things if Rey was a man instead of a woman.


Probably not, probably would. You don't know.

People only notice this because Landis pointed it out, who is by his own admission a feminist that adores flawed female characters



> Ah, so you can just claim Anakin is a Gary Stu and leave it at that, but you must tear apart Rey, *who has only been in one movie so far*, on...principle, I presume?


That makes it worse for Rey, having the entire world bend over for her like that in her first outing is kind of terrible.



> The Millennium Falcon had been modified in a way that Rey knew about, but Han didn't.


 the scene was ment to show that Rey was impressively adept to machines. Portray her in a positive light.



> But think the bigger issue is you have zero issue with justifying Luke using the Force to direct high-speed Proton Torpedoes into an opening *at a ninety-degree angle* to destroy a planet-destroying super-weapon by claiming him to be "an incompetent waste of space", while you have to take Rey apart to justify some unfounded hate.


And Rey beating Kylo's mind tricks and controlling a stormtrooper's mind despite never having anyone teach her at all, while Luke needed Obi-Wan to train him and Obi-Wan's disembodied voice to tell him what to do.

Comparing the first movies side by side, it's very obvious that the world seems to go Rey's way, 'cause Luke was portrayed as a kid that needed guidance in the time of need, while Rey didn't really need anyone



> She didn't even know how to properly use the blaster Han handed her at first, *but Luke had zero issue with a military-issue Storm Trooper rile, a far cry from a farm boy's rifle.  *


Rey was in a wide open forest, and didn't previously use a gun.

Luke was in a closed off space, and has used guns before.

Please...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 27, 2017)

the only way Rey SueWalker can come off better is if the memories of her Jedi training were erased for her own safety...otherwise, telekinesis and Jedi mindtricks right outta the gate like it's no thing? fuck outta her Kathleen Kennedy 

as for Finn? he wasn't _just_ a Storm Trooper...he was a _sanitation_ Trooper

Reactions: Agree 2 | Creative 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 28, 2017)

Its funny they fell into pretty much every black stereotype for Finn while doing their damnest to avoid everyone for women.
Resulting in Rey as Mary Sue. And Finn as A Joke. 

Bring George back at least his self insert in Luke wasnt a giant Gary Stu. KK on the other hand got everything handed to her which reminds from a certain Star Wars Fan Board that I  have been banned from 3-4 times:

_A Mary Sue is a character (*male, female, or otherwise*) who is given unwarranted preferential treatment and unearned respect, thereby compromising the integrity and believability of the story and/or its characters. Some examples:

"*Spotlight stealing*": Rey is instantly loved, admired and desired by everybody including enemies (BB-8, Finn, Han, Chewie, Kylo Ren, Snoke etc), even when this compromises story logic and character backgrounds. Examples:
-Leia hugs the complete stranger Rey after the death of Han (and supposed death of her son at Rey’s hand) while old friends Chewie and Leia completely ignore each other (JJ already admitted the mistake). This is classic Sue writing: only the Sue’s POV counts, the fact that Leia and Chewie are old friends and the emotional link to Han and always hugged before (carbonite scene etc) is irrelevant;
- Rey takes-over the captain and piloting position on the MF after Han dies (she sits in the pilot seat) – Chewie the 600y Wookie remains the copilot on his own ship of a 19y old woman they just met a few hours before (Sues start at the top);
- Rey the scavenger is sent on the most important Resistance mission to find Luke - but not his sister Leia (who “desperately” was looking for him) or other resistance fighters who know Luke! Rey walks up the island, Luke’s old friends Chewie and R2-D2 mysteriously stay back waiting with the ship (Sue is center). The mission was to bring Luke back, not to send him somebody who he can train there on the island.
-debatable: Kylo removes helmet before Rey, though from the narrative POV it would have made sense that he only shows his face to Han (Sue is center);
- even light sabers and dead OLD MASTERS (Yoda, Obi Wan) call out to Rey, this never happened before with any other Jedi (even “Space Jesus” Anakin) - demonstrating how special Rey is.

"*Better than You"/ "Copycat"-Sue*:
Rey regularly bests other character at their game, or rescues them and/or drains competence from them, thus compromising story and character backgrounds.
- The lifelong soldier Finn looks incompetent and foolish next to Rey (fighting, piloting, languages, Starkiller security and mechanical stuff), is beaten by her, and must be rescued by her many times.
-The main antagonist Kylo Ren, the 30 year old Master of the Ren (and Jedi killer), who is established as very powerful, is beaten, maimed and emasculated (broken saber) by Rey physically and on mind-level several times – all that despite of Rey having no proper Force or sword fighting training. He finally has to be rescued by a deus ex machina plot device (opening chasm) to be save from her.
- Rey constantly advises and bests Han (and Finn) with mechanical and engineering ingenuity regarding Han’s own ship, driving him to angrily leaving the cockpit ("Away Ball") and resulting in him offering her a job quickly.
- Rey also replaces C-3PO as a translator, BB-8 seems completely useless because Rey does all the mechanics and engineering to repair and improve the falcon.

“*God Mode Sue*” Rey has ad hoc abilities and powers, whenever the story needs her to look good, despite her story background of being a lowly, starving scavenger struggling to survive. Characters speak of her as if she was the second coming (Kylo: “She gets more powerful every moment”). Examples:
-Rey has sudden force abilities on Master-level (mind trick, telekinesis, mind reading) that took Luke and other Jedi several movies to learn.
-She has amazing stunt piloting abilities with a bulky, unwieldy freighter (MF) and without a co-pilot (!) speeding and spinning thorough a graveyard and through a destroyer under heavy fire - without her having ever flown the MF before!,
-Rey has incredible aiming abilities, despite not having shot a blaster. She only misses one single shot, then blasts away all soldiers with one hit at a great distance.
-She can hit with the Falcon turret even when she is not sitting on the turret gun, but piloting the freighter (“How did you do that ? I don’t know!”),
- she speaks all languages of the aliens she accidently meets, including "binary droidspeak" (it was establishes in the OT that humans can’t do that - Luke never could except with cockpit translator); she even speaks Wookie though Wookies are not space travelers/are not seen on Jakku.
- She is an ace engineer ("I bypassed the compressor") and rocket science mechanic;
- Rey even knows how to disable the security system on the Starkiller base (“The girl knows her stuff”).
- Rey despite her frail, half-starved condition is a master climber with great spelunking abilities.
- Despite being set up as a starving lowly scavenger woman, Rey has unblemished looks (typical Sue trait): she is the only young, beautiful woman around; she wears make up and lipstick and sports impressively white teeth and a posh theater accent despite of her background in poverty .
- Rey has a mysterious background, indicating she is very special._

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 28, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Finn got his ask kicked all movie and you want to take away his one minor success? The easy explanation is Kylo was toying with Finn.



Actually, it sounds like you are the one who wants to take away Finn's success by claiming Kylo was toying with him.  You seem so blind by your own hypocrisy that that would actually be worse than Finn being able to hold his own and wound Kylo Ren at all, *which not the product of self-righteous speculation, but what actually happened.  
*
For the record, Finn helped Poe Dameron escape the First Order Star Destroyer; he was the guy who manned the guns on the Millennium Falcon and took down the TIE fighters that were pursuing him and Rey; he was the guy who was able to use a Lightsaber with little trouble in combat on his first try, despite being a non-Jedi; he is the guy who formulated the plan with Han Solo to disable the shields around the Starkiller Base, *and he was able to take on Kylo Ren, the Darth Vader of the First Order, and wound him in battle.  *That final scene against Kylo Ren cemented Finn's own character arc in the film.  At the start, he was afraid of what the First Order was capable of, but by the end of the movie found the courage to stand up against the First Order, be integral to the destruction of their most powerful weapon, and even fight their most dreaded member in battle. 

Yet you are the one who wants to reduce him down to a stereotype.  Just because you have some irrational hatred of Rey.

I am going to take a gamble and guess: You are a Star Wars EU fanboy who is incensed that Jacen and Jaina Solo, and Ben Skywalker are no longer in the official continuity, and are taking it out on what you perceive to be their replacement(s).


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## Skaddix (Feb 28, 2017)

I am not reducing him to a stereotype I am telling it like it is. 

Yeah Yeah he showed courage but he didnt get wins and was the butt of most of the jokes. Meanwhile Rey had one joke not taking the safety on then spent the rest of movie showing up every other character. To use an analogy she is the cheater who rolled Nat 20s on everything in DnD. While everyone else was stuck with point buy. 

The problem was Rey is a generalist who is better then everyone else at their specialties.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 1, 2017)

She "shows up every other character"?

The last time I checked, I recall Han Solo jumped out of Hyperspace at faster-than-light into the atmosphere of the planet mere kilometres from the ground, landed the Falcon in one piece with only a second to spare, *while bypassing a planetary shield that blocks anything not going at light-speed from getting in.  
*
So tell me, how did she "show up" that feat?


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## Skaddix (Mar 1, 2017)

Cause she can pilot the Falcon No Problem without a Co-Pilot?

Han had like two feats in areas where he has already shown to have expertise before. No Look Shot and being one of the greatest pilots in the universe. 

Not that I didnt think Han doing that was BS. 

Rey has high tier feats in every category.
Linguist, Mechanic, Pilot, Blasting, Force, and Melee.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 2, 2017)

Han somehow able to stop and land a ship going at light-speed in the atmosphere to avoid a crash into the ground was pretty bs tbh

that would absolutely require vast Force-augmented reactions, its not even a matter of good pilot skills, just being fast enough to process 


I chalk that up to writers not knowing a shit though, same as how CW treats Flashes speed


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 6, 2017)




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## A. Waltz (Mar 6, 2017)

what is a bio-hexacrypt


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## Skaddix (Mar 6, 2017)

No One Knows.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 6, 2017)

i think hope it means they're gonna hafta give Finn-obi a cyber spine...i saw some concept fan art of it.

It would make sense since Kylo practically cut that boy open from ass to shoulder.

AND it might make him more capable as a soldier tbh


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## Swarmy (Mar 6, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> i think hope it means they're gonna hafta give Finn-obi a cyber spine...i saw some concept fan art of it.
> 
> It would make sense since Kylo practically cut that boy open from ass to shoulder.
> 
> AND it might make him more capable as a soldier tbh


Would make sense seeing how they had Vader with a cyber neck


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## Skaddix (Mar 6, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> i think hope it means they're gonna hafta give Finn-obi a cyber spine...i saw some concept fan art of it.
> 
> It would make sense since Kylo practically cut that boy open from ass to shoulder.
> 
> AND it might make him more capable as a soldier tbh



Yeah we cant let those dirty minorities get their hands on the Force.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 6, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah we cant let those dirty minorities get their hands on the Force.


oh no doubt; can you imagine a black man with the jedi mind trick? no white woman in the galaxy would be safe!


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## Skaddix (Mar 6, 2017)

Yeah or an Asian. We give him so psuedo not Force BS so the white people can keep the monopoly.


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## Indra (Mar 8, 2017)

Trailer spoilers: 



Not sure which is more credible tbh


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## Mider T (Mar 8, 2017)

Just came in to say I just saw the trailer!  It was awesome!

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Indra (Mar 8, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Just came in to say I just saw the trailer!  It was awesome!


Anything interesting outside of what the articles say?


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## Skaddix (Mar 9, 2017)

Anything interesting bsedies rey doing all the fun stuff while Finn does same lame inflitration arc. Does this trilogy have any new ideas?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 9, 2017)




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## Suigetsu (Mar 17, 2017)

What a dumb name for the title sigh.. oh well it's not like I should have expectations for these SW disney films.


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## Mider T (Mar 17, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Anakin was a Gary Stu. No one disputes that.



This term gets thrown around top much.  Anakin was not a Gary Stu.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Mar 17, 2017)

In the Phantom Menace He Was.

Its less so after that because he gets his Ass Kicked by Dooku, has a terrible personality so not everyone likes him.


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## ~Gesy~ (Mar 17, 2017)

Isn't Anakin.....supposed to be tho?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Runner (Mar 17, 2017)

Nah. 

Phantom Menace Anakin was a Gary Stu

The next two movies clearly established him as the opposite 

Luke is still >>>> tho


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## Skaddix (Mar 17, 2017)

I always laugh when Rey Fans try to paint Luke as a Gary Stu. Luke was a straight fuck up during ANH until he shot down the Deathstar.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 24, 2017)




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## Catalyst75 (Mar 24, 2017)

Mider T said:


> This term gets thrown around top much.  Anakin was not a Gary Stu.



The kid Anakin arguably was, but then Attack of the Clones showed all the signs and flaws in his character that would lead to his inevitable fall to the Dark Side.  He was taken from the innocence of his childhood and Tatooine (something about desert planets must give people idealistic views of the world) and shown the real world, including his view of the Jedi changing over time.

Remember how he said he would come back to Tatooine and free all the slaves when he became a Jedi?  He ends up only coming back ten years later to see his mother die in his arms due to Tusken Raiders.

The trend of Star Wars movies has been that anyone with the name "Skywalker" will go through a harsh baptism of fire in the second movie in the trilogy, while the first movie is the start of the journey and a proving of their potential.  

For the Prequel and Original, this is likely due to the Ring Theory of story-telling - the order of type of events in the first half will repeat again in the second half, only in reverse order.  

So it is no "great sin" as a result for story elements from movies in the Original (or even Prequel) trilogy to carry over into the Sequel Trilogy - it is a form of story-telling.


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## Indra (Mar 25, 2017)

Problem with origin stories or introduction to newer star characters of the franchise, is that they usually are pit against odds that seem highly unrealistic to their non-trained (or in some cases when they are literally children) standards.

Fact is, they have to make the movies interesting to the audience, which is why a lot of these main characters come out looking very mary/garu stu-ish, because they can't have a really bland story line.

Instead they have to have space battles, light saber fights, and force wielding magic farts to spice things up. That's the way I see it IMO


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## Skaddix (Mar 25, 2017)

Well sure but no one made them make Rey a random orphan instead of highly trained Jedi Knight at the start. 

They screwed themselves. Characters are 18-30 plenty of time to give them believable skill sets


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 26, 2017)

what made Star Wars interesting was the characters and their arcs...

laser swords, space battles and all the other stuff was the icing.
But i understand the vapid nature of the modern populace...so it is what it is.

as for Rey; they're gonna make her a midichlorian spawn like Vader (or his reincarnation )...even then_all the force powers she pulled outta her ass would be too much without any formal training.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 29, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 30, 2017)

A glimpse at Rey's new look in this early merchandise.


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## Mael (Mar 30, 2017)

So basically I'm going to go out on a limb and state here's the movie where Mark Hamill bites it and MaRey Sue becomes the Last Jedi.


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## Skaddix (Mar 30, 2017)

Nah...He lives but only because RIP Carrie Fisher in RL. 

Plus who actually believes Kylo Ren can beat Luke. He got whipped by MaRey Sue.


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## Mael (Mar 30, 2017)

Wait what about that dipshit Snooki or whatever the fucking thing was?



Catalyst75 said:


> I wonder if you would be saying these same things if Rey was a man instead of a woman.



Actually no but decent strawman attempt.  And firing a blaster =/= utilizing the Force and if anything Luke fired it right in front of him unlike trained Stormtroopers, more following Han's example.  How apologetic are you over this bullshit?

Rey is an outright Sue.  The fact it takes the greatest Jedi (Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin) years upon years to hone their craft but when facing Kylo Ren she's a sudden badass who is on par with unnamed Jedi is complete bullshit and lazy writing.

But hey there's always this:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 30, 2017)

Mael said:


> Actually no but decent strawman attempt. And firing a blaster =/= utilizing the Force and if anything Luke fired it right in front of him unlike trained Stormtroopers, more following Han's example. How apologetic are you over this bullshit?
> 
> Rey is an outright Sue. The fact it takes the greatest Jedi (Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin) years upon years to hone their craft but when facing Kylo Ren she's a sudden badass who is on par with unnamed Jedi is complete bullshit and lazy writing.



Yoda - 800+ years of experience as a Jedi.

Obi-Wan - 36 years time (by the time of "Revenge of the Sith") , presuming he was taken in to the Jedi Order at three years of age--> 57 years by "A New Hope".

Anakin Skywalker - 13 years of Jedi training before the injuries that crippled his potential, yet was able to fly a Pod Racer while nine years of age.  His full training was not completed by Palpatine. 

Luke Skywalker - A few days of training at most with Obi-Wan and Yoda combined, *self-taught for the rest of the four years leading up to "Return of the Jedi"* where he bested Anakin/Darth Vader, only one year of training after Vader crushed him and severed his arm.  After a single day of training to use the Force, and guidance by Obi-Wan's Force Ghost, Luke is able to guide two hypersonic Proton Torpedoes into the exhaust port at perfect 90 degree angles.  Without a targeting computer.

Now, let us get to "Force Awakens":

Yes, Kylo Ren, trained from the time he was a child, but Snoke had yet to complete his training by the time of "Force Awakens".  Before his fight with Rey (where he tried to persuade her to become his student to learn the ways of the Force, meaning he was not aiming to kill her or cripple her like he was with Finn) recall that two things happened: 1. Kylo Ren was shot through the side by Chewie's boltcaster, which would be debilitating to Kylo's movements regardless of how drawing on the pain fuelled his power through the Dark Side; 2. Finn landed a strike on his dominant sword arm, one which affected his sword swing later in the fight. 

In other words, blood loss and the decreased strength of his dominant sword arm affected Kylo's performance in his fight, and left him vulnerable.  Top that off with Rey's near 100% relation to the Skywalker line, and Rey's skill with the Force would be a given, especially given the fact that Kylo Ren may have inadvertently given her a "Nen-style Baptism" to the Force, as well as the fact that she has shown prior experience using melee weapons, like the other non-Jedi who have been shown able to use a light-saber in canon.

I'm not going to judge based on one movie when I know there are going to be two more movies in the Sequel Trilogy.  Though anything more from the next would probably only add to your collective _furores _towards her character, even if or when the traditional "Skywalker loses an arm" scene occurs in "The Last Jedi", solely out of principle, at this point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Skaddix (Mar 30, 2017)

Kylo is a Skywalker with more training then Rey who has zero. So it really doesnt matter his training was incomplete. 

He forgot to stop weapons like earlier against bowcaster.
Apparently didnt have the mana or spell slots to toss Finn along with Rey. 
Got hit by Finn who couldnt even beat TR-8R.
Got mentally and physically dominated by Rey. 

Rey flew the MF without a co pilot.
Rey is a Mechancial Genius. Telling Han how to fix his own ship. 
And is linguistics master she can speak Droid (something impossible in the PT) and Wookie for some reason. 

Actually waste of my time respond to post 608.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mael (Mar 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Yoda - 800+ years of experience as a Jedi.
> 
> Obi-Wan - 36 years time (by the time of "Revenge of the Sith") , presuming he was taken in to the Jedi Order at three years of age--> 57 years by "A New Hope".
> 
> ...



What I see is a bunch of excuse making.  You like shit characters, I get it, especially if they're women apparently.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 30, 2017)

Mael said:


> What I see is a bunch of excuse making.  You like shit characters, I get it, especially if they're women apparently.



You must not have seen my criticisms of a certain female character over in the _Bleach_ section in the past.


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## Mael (Mar 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You must not have seen my criticisms of a certain female character over in the _Bleach_ section in the past.


I'm sorry. You must be confusing me with a guy who enjoys reading complete pieces of shit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Mar 30, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You must not have seen my criticisms of a certain female character over in the _Bleach_ section in the past.


Orihime?


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 30, 2017)

Mael said:


> I'm sorry. You must be confusing me with a guy who enjoys reading complete pieces of shit.



I blame the author.  The story _*had *_potential, but Kubo was just the wrong writer, and squandered it for some stereotypical "perfect happy ending" that made everything that came before it pointless.



~Gesy~ said:


> Orihime?



Correct.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 10, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 10, 2017)




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## Pilaf (Apr 13, 2017)

Snoke is a pimp, allegedly. Giant rings and genie slippers.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 13, 2017)

And I thought Marvel had bad villians..

Kylo Hipster.
Darth Pimp. 

KK is shit.


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## Swarmy (Apr 13, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> Snoke is a pimp, allegedly. Giant rings and genie slippers.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 13, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 14, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 14, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Trailer was nothing special in my book.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Only two things stood out to me.

1) Kylo has yellow eyes.
2) Luke saying the Jedi Must End.

Course I expected as much.

Oh and Rose is a Maintenance. That is kind lame.

Beyond that Rey Training.
Finn in Bacta Tank. This Coma better be a metaphorical cocoon. 
Fight on Salt Fields.


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 14, 2017)

yeah, i'm ready to leave this era and these characters behind.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

KK is still force feeding us Strong Woman.

Yeah that is great how about some Strong Males.

Broken Luke, Darth Hipster (The Failure), and Token Sidekick. Do not impress.

Oh and Force Boards have crashed...


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## Saishin (Apr 14, 2017)

The trailer looks neat but we'll see,I hope it will be not a recycled movie that takes references from the OS like TFA,let's hope for something original.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Well it looks more original so far but JJ set a low bar. 
Also that was  Teaser.
Had a voiceover. And was mostly quick unconnected cuts with no narrative information.


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 14, 2017)

god i hope that scene wasn't another pod race

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kuromaku (Apr 14, 2017)

Shit, now the Grey Jedi schmucks are out in force. What's worse is that Disney might actually be going with it. Eh, fuck it. I already had to deal with Nagato being a cripple and Tobi turning out to be Obito.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Well it did look ceremonial. The Red Streams of dust or whatever behind them suggest not a war. 
Although funny enough I did like that Old Podracing scene.


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## Indra (Apr 14, 2017)

Why is Finn in a coma gain? I honestly forgot lmao.

Trailer looks good okay.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Oh Kylo put him in a Coma from that lightsaber cut to the backside. Although Why that didnt bisect Finn I am not sure. Its JJ dont think about it too much. Or you know Probably Rey "Mary Sue" using force protect or barrier. 

Now granted when a lead hero gets beats like that by the bad guy you would expect him to even the score. But KK is in charge so dont expect Finn to every pay Kylo back for that.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Pilaf (Apr 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> Why is Finn in a coma gain? I honestly forgot lmao.
> 
> Trailer looks good okay.




He got his back side split open by an alpha male.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Alpha Male. 
In what world is Kylo an Alpha Male.

Fucker failed on every level. Starkiller Base Donezo, Rey Retrieved Nope, Luke found No, and he got his ass beat by an untrained girl....plus Daddy Issues. Fuck random trooper TR-8R was better against Finn then he was. 

That is about as far from an alpha male as you can get.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

I like your choice in music though 

But come on man defend your position. 

Oh and He got pushed around by a pencil pusher like Hux and then saved by him.


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 14, 2017)

i suspect Finn will play equal parts damsel in distress and comedic relief

_"meesa got jokes!"_

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

KK is charge so probably.

I wouldnt expect any alpha males while she is in charge.
Unless Iger personally tells her to sit down and shut up.

I mean normally you expect a character to pop out of the pod a badass....but fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 14, 2017)

The biggest meta-question is of course still how they will write Leia out of the story now that Carrie Fisher is gone.

It would be repetitive for Kylo Ren to just kill her like he did Han. You'd want something more original.

The middle part of the trilogy is supposed to be the low point for the hero, anyway, so expect something REALLY dark to happen at the end of this one. In the original trilogy we learned that Luke is Vader's son, and in the prequel trilogy the Clone Wars start. Something like that is going to happen in Last Jedi too.

My bet is on Luke turning to the Dark Side, because it would give Mark Hamill a chance to show off the "Joker" side of his acting range. Maybe Leia dies and that's what turns him? In Return of the Jedi he snapped and almost killed Vader when he threatened his sister.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

And another Dark Side Skywalker is fresh how?

They confirmed Leia will be in IX. So if Had to guess she dies offscreen between IX and X

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm already bored of Rey
Only thing left for this trilogy is if Luke can salvage what's left of the franchise from this suffocating boredom
Also WOW Finn is still in a coma. Nice cementing his token sidekick in space role


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## Stringer (Apr 14, 2017)

it's such a _''meh''_ trailer, but one thing I liked from it is Luke wanting to bring an end to the Jedi Order, the way they're structured clearly doesn't work

doesn't make sense to perpetually be obtuse about the usage of either light and dark when you have characters who benefit from harnessing both sides of the force without succumbing to the dark side


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Well that is all non canon. 

In canon I think Mace is the only one who went up to line now. And seeing as Palps didnt instagib him it worked wonders.


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## Stringer (Apr 14, 2017)

it sure did, time for change

I don't think I'll see this one in theaters but I'm at least interested to see which direction they take


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> god i hope that scene wasn't another pod race



Didn't see the walkers in the distance, did you? * 
*


Stringer said:


> it's such a _''meh''_ trailer, but one thing I liked from it is Luke wanting to bring an end to the Jedi Order, the way they're structured clearly doesn't work
> 
> doesn't make sense to perpetually be obtuse about the usage of either light and dark when you have characters who benefit from harnessing both sides of the force without succumbing to the dark side



It is an interesting thing to hear Luke say.  It gives a sense that the Sequel trilogy is about letting go of the past.  What doomed the Jedi in the Prequel trilogy is that they did not grow and change with the galaxy around themselves, holding onto thousand-year old traditions while the Sith advanced in their ways and their powers while remaining hidden.

Luke tried to restore the Order in the same fashion as the old Order, but Snoke stamped it out through manipulating Kylo Ren, just as Palpatine once did with Anakin.  

It seems Luke has realized in his years of solitude after the destruction of the new Jedi Order that it is time for a new way of doing things.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mael (Apr 14, 2017)

Seeing this movie will be a complete waste of money if I don't hear at least one Joker laugh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Yeah but the problem is you need a bad guy with a lightsaber vs good girl with the lightsaber.

Luke can redefine things however he wants.

That is never going to stop some evil person from abusing their powers. 

Not to say that the Jedi didnt screw things up but the order stood for what 1000 generations. A generation is 20 years or so...20,000 Years. I challenge any Order not become corrupt and fall after that long.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pilaf (Apr 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Well that is all non canon.
> 
> In canon I think Mace is the only one who went up to line now. And seeing as Palps didnt instagib him it worked wonders.




KOTOR is probably going to return to the canon fold soon, which means Jolee is back in.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

I said currently. Also arent you missing someone if you want to name drop KOTOR...a Darth Revan.


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## Stringer (Apr 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah but the problem is you need a bad guy with a lightsaber vs good girl with the lightsaber.
> 
> Luke can redefine things however he wants.
> 
> ...


well of course, the act of revamping the Jedi Order by assimilating elements of light and dark wouldn't equate the end of Siths or people using the Force for evil means, that'd be an unrealistic utopia

this just means Luke acknowledges there needs to be change if they want to keep order in the Galaxy


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

Stringer said:


> well of course, the act of revamping the Jedi Order by assimilating elements of light and dark wouldn't equate the end of Siths or people using the Force for evil means, that'd be an unrealistic utopia
> 
> this just means Luke acknowledges there needs to be change if they want to keep order in the Galaxy



And pursuing that utopia is arguably what led to the downfall of the old Jedi Order to begin with, after the "extinction" of the Sith.


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## Pocalypse (Apr 14, 2017)

Trailer didn't generate any hype. I'll still watch it in the cinemas because it's a Star Wars film but it better be more interesting than that teaser.

Bring on more Rogue One like films too.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rindaman (Apr 14, 2017)

Worst thing about Finn is you can almost guarantee KK will make sure he's out shined by Rose the  Resistance maintenance worker who will for some reason be more combat savy as a tech than Finn who was raised to be a Soldier simply because  Vagina empowerment.

I'm already calling that she'll be a double agent for the First Order thus bringing Finn face to face with his opposite. As if the Luke , Rey and Kylo arc doesn't already look predictable enough, now Finn is getting basic 90's action movie fare. 



All I'm saying is the ST coulda been some shit but instead we have what amounts to a rehash of Luke's story with the only difference being that Kathleen thinks a female could've done it better apparently. The Finn and Rose arc sounds like discount Han & Lando betrayal shit , just call BDT Jabba.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Thespacelord (Apr 14, 2017)

Only one movie in but TBH i just want to get this trilogy over with, so that we can hopefully come up with something different to build the movies around.

Preferably something Pre-Republic, Old Republic or far into the Future.


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

Without the depth....Han and Lando had history and Lord Vader was strongarming Lando.


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## Thespacelord (Apr 14, 2017)

If Luke is going to die in this Trilogy i hope they at least let him kill Snoke before dying, he deserves at least that much.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

It better not be fucking Kylo that does it.

I am sorry you dont go from being smoked by a novice to beating Luke.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> It better not be fucking Kylo that does it.
> 
> I am sorry you dont go from being smoked by a novice to beating Luke.





Luke only had *four years *training with the Force and the Lightsaber (most of it self-taught) before he became strong enough to best Darth Vader.  And it was only one year prior to "Return of the Jedi" in "Empire Strikes Back" that Vader handed Luke defeat and severed his arm.  

Kylo Ren has had Jedi training for much longer, but he had also suffered both a bowcaster shot through his torso, and his dominant sword arm being wounded before he fought with Rey.  

Who knows how long the time-span will be between Rey first meeting Luke and then returning to the Resistance to fight the First Order.  *GIVEN LUKE'S GROWTH WHEN HE WAS SELF-TAUGHT,* it would not be unreasonable for Kylo Ren to pose a threat when trained under Snoke for one to three years.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2017)

He had what 10, 15 Years on Rey training wise?

Didn't stop her from spanking him mentally, out force pulling him and then beating his ass.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 14, 2017)

Narratively speaking, both Rey and Kylo should be significantly stronger when they emerge from their respective training retreats, or there would have been no point to the writers sending them there in the first place.


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## Mider T (Apr 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> KK is still force feeding us Strong Woman.
> 
> Yeah that is great how about some Strong Males.


There were nothing BUT males in the original trilogy, it was time they mixed it up.


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## Zef (Apr 14, 2017)

If Finn is about to be sidelined I ain't even going to watch.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

Mider T said:


> There were nothing BUT males in the original trilogy, it was time they mixed it up.



There was Leia.  Technically speaking, they just switched around the roles played.  In the Sequel trilogy, it is the female character who is the Jedi.

Either nostalgia is driving much of the complaints, or it is a less fair reasoning.  



mr_shadow said:


> Narratively speaking, both Rey and Kylo should be significantly stronger when they emerge from their respective training retreats, or there would have been no point to the writers sending them there in the first place.



Exactly, and the odds are in favor of Rey being part of the Skywalker line, just as Kylo Ren is Leia's son.  As a result, both of them would likely grow at the same rate of at least Luke, and they'll both have the added benefit of mentors.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Apr 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> And another Dark Side Skywalker is fresh how?
> 
> They confirmed Leia will be in IX. So if Had to guess she dies offscreen between IX and X


X?


Skaddix said:


> Well that is all non canon.
> 
> In canon I think Mace is the only one who went up to line now. And seeing as Palps didnt instagib him it worked wonders.


When was this?


Catalyst75 said:


> There was Leia. Technically speaking, they just switched around the roles played. In the Sequel trilogy, it is the female character who is the Jedi.



One woman in a sea of men.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 14, 2017)

We need to always remind ourselves that Star Wars isn't real, so predictions are better done based on what the writers might think makes for a good movie rather than what "makes sense" in-universe.

Because the format of SW is that of movie trilogies rather than a protracted tv show, progress in any endeavor is obviously going to happen at a somewhat unrealistically fast rate, because we can't afford to waste valuable screen time on the intricacies of Death Star plumbing or Jedi push-up routines.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

Mider T said:


> X?



Ignore him.  He thinks Disney will turn his "childhood memories" into an extended franchise.



Mider T said:


> One woman in a sea of men.



True, but she was still one woman in the role of a main character in a sea of men where only about three male characters at any given time (and later a Muppet) are main characters.  And her role wasn't "following the main male lead around".  Heck, even when she was put in that slave outfit in "Return of the Jedi", Leia didn't wait for Luke or Han to rescue her; she killed Jabba herself.


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## Furinji Saiga (Apr 14, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Mider T (Apr 14, 2017)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## Pocalypse (Apr 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Ignore him. He thinks Disney will turn his "childhood memories" into an extended franchise.



Well, they are. They apparently have a decade and a half worth of stories to tell (minimum - a decade worth right now).

If you think Star Wars is ending with IX you're in for a rude awakening

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 14, 2017)

Mider T said:


> If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



That is also what is called "Ring Composition".


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## Rukia (Apr 14, 2017)

Lol, remember when we thought Finn was going to be an important character?

We should have fucking known better!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rukia (Apr 15, 2017)

@Vault no Plagueis in the trailer dude.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 15, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Lol, remember when we thought Finn was going to be an important character?
> 
> We should have fucking known better!



I'm not good with sarcasm, so I'll assume you're serious.

Having your spine cut in two *IS NOT* something you recover from easily.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 15, 2017)




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## Saishin (Apr 15, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> Very fast. Veeeery dangerous.


But the problem with the galaxy is that no one help each others


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## Skaddix (Apr 15, 2017)

I will now refer to Kathlen Kennedy as some variant that uses 3 Ks.

The good news for John is like Oscar after Detroit gets that award buzz he wont have to show up for these shit shows from KKK.

I mean sheesh John and KMT show up to Celebration and what do they get.

John: Cropped out of Celebration Banner, Not on the TLJ Poster and in the trailer for 2 seconds.
KMT: Not on the poster and not in the trailer at all.

Meanwhile KKK prattles on about feminism. White Feminist are the worst.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Rindaman (Apr 15, 2017)

I'm glad someone finally sees it, even her choices of casting diverse females is bullshit.  Thandie  Newton is playing a character in the Han Solo movie , which may amount to nothing more than evil arm candy for Harrison's character.

Oh boy if this Rose turns out to be evil too, just goes to show what KK really thinks of women of color compared to her precious self inserted brunettes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vault (Apr 15, 2017)

Rukia said:


> @Vault no Plagueis in the trailer dude.


I know dude  underwhelming


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 15, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 15, 2017)

Battlefront II Better then TLJ Teaser.


Although look the unknown Soldier is a white brunette.....

It aint even Subtle. Please Iger save us from this crazed Bitch.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MCTDread (Apr 15, 2017)

Still gonna reserve judgement till I see the film though I'm excited. 

Also wondering what the next film is gonna be after the Han Solo one.


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## Pilaf (Apr 15, 2017)

"Rey...Git Gud, you must."

"Git gud?"

"Swing this sword around a lot and make some rocks float. Also do a alot of front flips and climb some vines and shit. Don't ask. There'll probably be a cave with snakes and lizards and shit if we have time and I feel like it. I dunno. I'm old."


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## Jake CENA (Apr 15, 2017)

Finn kicked ass in Kong Skull Island but in Force Awakens.. not so much


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## Rukia (Apr 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Battlefront II Better then TLJ Teaser.
> 
> 
> Although look the unknown Soldier is a white brunette.....
> ...


Clearly the powers that be have decided that a Lara Croft archetype is the safest choice for lead character if you want an alternative to white dudes.


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## BlazingInferno (Apr 15, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> *Finn kicked ass in Kong Skull Island* but in Force Awakens.. not so much



You're a retard.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jake CENA (Apr 15, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


> You're a retard.



why u so mad? do u look like a gorilla irl?


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 15, 2017)

I think it is is because of your efficiency at having bigotry and stupidity all in one package, fake Cena.

-------------------------------------------

But on the other hand, the reaction so far over just one trailer is overblown.  A franchise gets dominated by white males for over three decades, and the instant more female protagonists are introduced people start ranting and raving.

Along with logic flying out the window because, apparently, people expected to see Finn already on his feet *despite having his spine severed by a lightsaber.
*
That's going to take time to recover from, and being shown in the trailer means that, time-wise, Finn is probably going to come out of his coma by the time of the events of the film.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## A. Waltz (Apr 15, 2017)

most trailers show stuff from the very beginning of a movie (most, barring the flashy action scenes pew pew)
it might open the film w/ finn being injured being flown somewhere and then we see him wake up and "blah blah what happened i gota find daisy" and then ect. more exposition til we finally see luke and rey and by the next time we see finn he'll up and ready to fight ect


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 15, 2017)

women are fine

I dont mind as many women as they shove down my throat 


whats important is that the story is new/original and captivating & thrilling

thats it

and the fights are impressive

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 16, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


> You're a retard.



He is Cena fan what do you expect. They all like that and salty. That their boy wont ever surpass THE ROCK.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zeta42 (Apr 16, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Lol, remember when we thought Finn was going to be an important character?
> 
> We should have fucking known better!


SJWs are going to complain about racism if he stays in the fridge for too long. He'll be back.


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## Skaddix (Apr 16, 2017)

SJW ie White Feminist dont give a darn.

They have Rey. Intersectionality is an Illusion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## A. Waltz (Apr 16, 2017)

yeah white feminist dont give a darn asl long as they got their white woman to self identify with


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 16, 2017)

I never cared that much about feminists as a movement in the first place.  I think people should just treat each other *as people* without any dividing lines of gender, race or the like.  

So I don't particularly care what a SJW would think of the movie in the first place.


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## Skaddix (Apr 16, 2017)

Yes well I too would like to live in that Dream World.


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## Pilaf (Apr 16, 2017)

I'm really interested in learning if that's actually the _Journal of the Whills_ on that little bookshelf. I suspect it is, since it has the same symbol. The fact that the ancient holy city of Force Users was shown in Rogue One makes me think they're bringing the idea of the Force as an ancient, monolithic religion that predates upstarts like Jedi and Sith back into the canon again.


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## Bielec (Apr 17, 2017)

Ok trailer, like it more after watching a few times.
There is Ren's helmet destryed in this trailer, maybe Kylo trashes it himself, when he realizes he can't just copy Vader, and need his own way.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Apr 17, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> why u so mad? do u look like a gorilla irl?


Lol b&

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Swarmy (Apr 17, 2017)

So we gonna have gray jedi now?


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## Amol (Apr 17, 2017)

Story's main problem well actually two main problems are Rey is kind of Mary Sue and Villain is kind of underwhelming.
Rey who never known force before was mind controlling soldiers. She who was never hold a light saber in her hand defeated a dude who had decades of training. A master regardless of injuries should be greater than a fresh novice .
Even Luke had Obiwan as teacher for whole movie and he still got his ass kicked by Vader. And that Luke was Chosen One.
This all makes Rey's character uninteresting because her struggle feels fake. She can do anything anyway.
KR just doesn't have the menace of Vader . He can't be a proper villain if one can't be afraid of him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 18, 2017)

Its even worse Kylo is a Dark Sider.
Ergo emotion and being pissed doesnt really hurt their power levels.


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## Fang (Apr 19, 2017)

I have more faith in Rian Johnson then I ever did in JJ Abrams that Episode VIII will be decent. And from a quick glance this entire thread is pretty cringe inducing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Apr 21, 2017)

finn is on a roll


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## DemonDragonJ (Apr 30, 2017)

I am very displeased by how Luke has changed so drastically in this film; this is a complete violation of his character from the original trilogy, where he was optimistic and idealistic. Unlike Yoda and Obi-Wan, he would never isolate himself from any turmoil that was occurring in the galaxy, because he knows from personal experience that isolationism never solves any problems. It is almost as if the writers of this film deliberately wish for it to be as different as possible from the original expanded universe, with Luke having no wife, no children, and not having succeeded in restoring the Jedi order.

On that subject, why would he think that the Jedi should end? Without them, who will help to maintain peace and order in the galaxy? Who will exist to preserve knowledge of the force, and impart it to others? Without the Jedi, there will be no organized faction to stop users of the dark side from conquering the galaxy. I do hope that the title of this film means that Luke is the last of the original Jedi and that Rey is the first of a new Jedi order (which is what Luke was supposed to be).

I also very much hope that Kylo Ren's past is revealed, most notably his reason for turning to the dark side, becuase, thus far, he seems to have had no reason, at all, making him appear to be nothing more than a spoiled brat with a bad temper.

I also am hoping to see TIE interceptors and TIE defenders in this film, since the original TIE fighters should be obsolete, at this point. It also would be nice to see the _Eclipse_ super star destroyer, rather than another incarnation of the Death Star or Starkiller base.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (May 4, 2017)




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## Catalyst75 (May 10, 2017)




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## MCTDread (May 11, 2017)

Can't wait to see the next set of trailers! 

Also hope they make Captain Phasma an actual badass instead of just being there.


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## Mider T (May 13, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, why would he think that the Jedi should end? Without them, who will help to maintain peace and order in the galaxy? Who will exist to preserve knowledge of the force, and impart it to others? Without the Jedi, there will be no organized faction to stop users of the dark side from conquering the galaxy. I do hope that the title of this film means that Luke is the last of the original Jedi and that Rey is the first of a new Jedi order (which is what Luke was supposed to be).


Maybe he means the Old Jedi way.  Balance (use of Sith and Jedi techniques) makes a Knight far more powerful.


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## RAGING BONER (May 13, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> On that subject, why would he think that the Jedi should end? Without them, who will help to maintain peace and order in the galaxy? Who will exist to preserve knowledge of the force, and impart it to others? Without the Jedi, there will be no organized faction to stop users of the dark side from conquering the galaxy. I do hope that the title of this film means that Luke is the last of the original Jedi and that Rey is the first of a new Jedi order (which is what Luke was supposed to be).


the Jedi are the cause of most of the calamity that has befallen the Galaxy for thousands of years
the very existence of Jedi means that something like the Sith or worse will inevitably rise up to destroy them


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## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> the Jedi are the cause of most of the calamity that has befallen the Galaxy for thousands of years
> the very existence of Jedi means that something like the Sith or worse will inevitably rise up to destroy them



How is that the case? The clone wars and extermination of the Jedi were orchestrated by Palpatine, a Sith, and the empire that brutally oppressed the galaxy was ruled by that same Sith lord.


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## RAGING BONER (May 14, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> How is that the case? The clone wars and extermination of the Jedi were orchestrated by Palpatine, a Sith, and the empire that brutally oppressed the galaxy was ruled by that same Sith lord.


and from where do the Sith come from?


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## RAGING BONER (May 14, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not know; I have not read all the various books or played all the various games that delve into the origins of the Sith.


there have been many incarnations of the Sith and they've had several empires and civilizations...ALL can be traced back to the Jedi.

Even Darth Bane's greatest teacher Xoxaan was one of the original 12 Fallen Jedi who enslaved the people of Korriban and became the first Lords of the Sith. They in turn gave rise to Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow and many other legendary Sith.

Exar Kun; former Jedi

Ulic Qeldroma; former Jedi

Darth Traya; former Jedi

Darth Revan; former Jedi

Darth Vader; former Jedi

Darth Ruin; former Jedi

Darth Krayt; former Jedi

Darth Caedus: former Jedi

in short, the Jedi's stupidity, ignorance and repression of human nature _always_ leads to the return of the Sith

Luke is likely the first Jedi to realize this...

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Catalyst75 (May 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> there have been many incarnations of the Sith and they've had several empires and civilizations...ALL can be traced back to the Jedi.
> 
> Even Darth Bane's greatest teacher Xoxaan was one of the original 12 Fallen Jedi who enslaved the people of Korriban and became the first Lords of the Sith. They in turn gave rise to Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow and many other legendary Sith.
> 
> ...



That is also how it all began, even in the EU: a member of the Order that preceded the Jedi Order became consumed by darkness, causing the Sith to form *from inside the old Order.*


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## Mider T (May 14, 2017)

Like HYDRA.


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## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> there have been many incarnations of the Sith and they've had several empires and civilizations...ALL can be traced back to the Jedi.
> 
> Even Darth Bane's greatest teacher Xoxaan was one of the original 12 Fallen Jedi who enslaved the people of Korriban and became the first Lords of the Sith. They in turn gave rise to Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow and many other legendary Sith.
> 
> ...



Wow, I have never before realized that so many prominent Sith were former Jedi (and you also forgot to mention Count Dooku/Darth Tyrannus), but Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, Darth Maul, and Palpatine were never Jedi; they were evil from the very beginning, and there are still many more Jedi who remained good than who turned evil (and Vader also redeemed himself).

However, if the Jedi order ever does end, who will continue their legacy? Who will continue to preserve knowledge of the force and maintain peace in the galaxy and oppose dark side force users?


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## BlazingInferno (May 14, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Wow, I have never before realized that so many prominent Sith were former Jedi

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


>



Why are you making that face? Perhaps I was too ambiguous in my previous post: I knew that all of those Sith were former Jedi, but it was not until they were all mentioned in the same post that I actually thought about just how many Jedi have turned to the dark side, and that thought is very disturbing (I know that @RAGING BONER mentioned only eight, out of thousands of Jedi, but those eight are among the most prominent, and there are also likely many more less prominent Jedi who turned evil, as well, such as Barriss Offee). However, I still do not believe that that is reason to demonize the entire Jedi order for the actions of several individuals (akin to the idea that it is not right to demonize the entirety of Islam because of the actions of several extreme groups or individuals, which is likely a discussion that should not be held in this thread).

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Suigetsu (May 14, 2017)

Well apparently Hamill doesnt like the new Disney SW nor does he agree with what they are doing with his character. Also they took Mara Jade away from him.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (May 14, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why are you making that face? Perhaps I was too ambiguous in my previous post: I knew that all of those Sith were former Jedi, but it was not until they were all mentioned in the same post that I actually thought about just how many Jedi have turned to the dark side, and that thought is very disturbing (I know that @RAGING BONER mentioned only eight, out of thousands of Jedi, but those eight are among the most prominent, and there are also likely many more less prominent Jedi who turned evil, as well, such as Barriss Offee). However, I still do not believe that that is reason to demonize the entire Jedi order for the actions of several individuals (akin to the idea that it is not right to demonize the entirety of Islam because of the actions of several extreme groups or individuals, which is likely a discussion that should not be held in this thread).


they take kids from their families and tell them that emotion is basically evil and it should be repressed (instead of understood an expressed in a healthy way).
They deny literally HALF of the force _also_ calling it evil and persecute anyone who even expresses curiosity in the subject. As if ignoring a thing somehow makes it go away. When anyone with even a modicum of understanding of human nature will know that forbidden fruit is the most tempting.

The Jedi have sooo many failings, hypocrisies and outright ignorance so deeply entrenched in their system that it's no wonder a Jedi, free from the old order (Luke) would come to learn how flawed they truly were.

The Jedi order was doomed to fail from the beginning. (mainly because of that hack George Lucas and the way he wrote them in the prequel trilogy)

if the Jedi had remained as they were portrayed in the OT by Yoda and Kenobi it would have been a different story. But PT Yoda, Obiwan and the council of goons are hypocrite morons who are frankly an insult to what they originally were.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (May 14, 2017)

I'm not surprised that ddj sympathizes with the Jedi agenda given the fact the emotions they attempt to repress are the same ones he's unfamiliar with.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Well apparently Hamill doesnt like the new Disney SW nor does he agree with what they are doing with his character. *Also they took Mara Jade away from him.*



Yes, that is definitely one of the greatest tragedies and travesties of this new canon; the loss of one of the best-written and most popular charterers who did not originate in the films. How difficult would it really have been to re-introduce her, given that Thrawn was re-introduced and that Kylo Ren is a poor imitation of Jacen Solo?



RAGING BONER said:


> they take kids from their families and tell them that emotion is basically evil and it should be repressed (instead of understood an expressed in a healthy way).
> They deny literally HALF of the force _also_ calling it evil and persecute anyone who even expresses curiosity in the subject. As if ignoring a thing somehow makes it go away. When anyone with even a modicum of understanding of human nature will know that forbidden fruit is the most tempting.
> 
> The Jedi have sooo many failings, hypocrisies and outright ignorance so deeply entrenched in their system that it's no wonder a Jedi, free from the old order (Luke) would come to learn how flawed they truly were.
> ...



The Jedi did not teach that emotion was evil, only that anger, fear, and hatred can destroy a person, which is true in actuality as well. Taking children from their families was definitely evil and wrong, and I cannot defend that, but seeking to avoid falling to the dark side makes sense, given the ample evidence that the dark side is addicting and self-destructive, not unlike drugs.



~Gesy~ said:


> I'm not surprised that ddj sympathizes with the Jedi agenda given the fact the emotions they attempt to repress are the same ones he's unfamiliar with.



I know that I should not be asking this, but what emotions are those, in your mind?

And I never said that I sympathized with the Jedi; I simply do not wish for their order to end, at least not under the name "Jedi;" in the original continuity, Luke's new Jedi order was radically different from the old Jedi order, so there is no reason that the same thing cannot be done in this continuity, as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (May 14, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, that is definitely one of the greatest tragedies and travesties of this new canon; the loss of one of the best-written and most popular charterers who did not originate in the films. How difficult would it really have been to re-introduce her, given that Thrawn was re-introduced and that Kylo Ren is a poor imitation of Jacen Solo?


It would had been piece of cake. Just mention her as being Luke's late wife "in the sense that she passed not long ago and it's one of the reasons of why Luke vanished "depression and vulnerability" 
But such things would had been too good for J.J. to come up with.

such tragedy. :/

Oh well at least Thrawn got salvaged.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DemonDragonJ (May 14, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> It would had been piece of cake. Just mention her as being Luke's late wife "in the sense that she passed not long ago and it's one of the reasons of why Luke vanished "depression and vulnerability"



That annoys me even further, because Han and Leia found love with each other, and yet Luke, the main hero of the story, never had any romantic involvement, which is completely unfair. Timothy Zahn clearly realized that that was a mistake in the original trilogy and rectified it by introducing Mara Jade as a romantic interest for Luke (although she certainly has great depth as a character beyond her relationship with Luke).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (May 15, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That annoys me even further, because Han and Leia found love with each other, and yet Luke, the main hero of the story, never had any romantic involvement, which is completely unfair. Timothy Zahn clearly realized that that was a mistake in the original trilogy and rectified it by introducing Mara Jade as a romantic interest for Luke (although she certainly has great depth as a character beyond her relationship with Luke).



Yeah, she was one of the fan favorites and one of the reasons I was looking forward to see the new movies. I also liked the model that they used for the card games and stuff. She was friends with Mark and I do remember a remark that he once said "Leave it to Lucasfilms to get ya a girlfriend like 10 years late" or something along the lines.

Btw you are remarkably kind, I have a couple of starwars friends that they loose their shit whenever I bring these things to them.
TBH I think I could have come up with a better EP 7 scenario than the one we got, with Jacen, Jaina, Ben, Mara and even Thrawn.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Jake CENA (May 15, 2017)

the jedi council also resorted to animal cruelty when they experimented gorillas if they can acquire the force


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## DemonDragonJ (May 15, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> the jedi council also resorted to animal cruelty when they experimented gorillas if they can acquire the force



When did that ever happen?

And I believe that it is very safe to presume that the Sith have committed acts of cruelty far worse than that.


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## BlazingInferno (May 16, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did that ever happen?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Swarmy (May 16, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did that ever happen?


You innocent mind


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## Roman (May 16, 2017)

Let's be honest. They shouldn't have gotten rid of the core elements of the expanded universe. Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, the New Republic, those things should've stayed. The new trilogy should've just adapted or slightly tweaked with the Thrawn trilogy if they felt adventurous. Instead we got Mary Sue and a compulsive liar as our new protagonists once again to satisfy the SJW audience.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Mael (May 16, 2017)

Roman said:


> Let's be honest. They shouldn't have gotten rid of the core elements of the expanded universe. Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, the New Republic, those things should've stayed. The new trilogy should've just adapted or slightly tweaked with the Thrawn trilogy if they felt adventurous. Instead we got Mary Sue and a compulsive liar as our new protagonists once again to satisfy the SJW audience.


Yep.

The only potentially decent excuse for MaRey Sue to have the kind of shit she does in her personality is if she's Luke's little girl.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Roman (May 16, 2017)

Mael said:


> Yep.
> 
> The only potentially decent excuse for MaRey Sue to have the kind of shit she does in her personality is if she's Luke's little girl.



Even that doesn't justify her ability. Luke was the son of the CHOSEN ONE, and neither he nor Anakin started using lightsabers and mind tricks like nobody's business in the first movie they appeared in.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mael (May 16, 2017)

Roman said:


> Even that doesn't justify her ability. Luke was the son of the CHOSEN ONE, and neither he nor Anakin started using lightsabers and mind tricks like nobody's business in the first movie they appeared in.


Oh of course.  Rey is still a Mary Sue unparalleled.  However, IIRC some of the Star Wars writers/developers admitted to her being a Mary Sue but apparently justified it saying the old cast was the same too.

But no...Luke was never a Stu the way Rey is a Sue.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Roman (May 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Eh how do you define SJW



Those who go to tumblr to cry about how they're being oppressed and grossly underrepresented for unfair reasons. The kind who would think affirmative action is a good thing but don't want to admit it. The kind that got people pissed enough to vote for Trump. Their kind.



Skaddix said:


> cause most black people I know arent fans of Rey and Finn.



They're prolly not like the people I described and are level-headed

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (May 16, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> When did that ever happen?
> 
> And I believe that it is very safe to presume that the Sith have committed acts of cruelty far worse than that.



Finn was a byproduct of those experiments! then he got kidnapped by the empire


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## Skaddix (May 16, 2017)

Ah it feels good to rag on star wars you try this on a star wars site and the knives come for you....because MaRey Sue is Precious Princess who cannot be criticized.


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## RAGING BONER (May 16, 2017)

i was just thinking how much more interesting the story _between_ RotJ and TFA would have been


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## BlazingInferno (May 16, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> You innocent mind



He's not as innocent as you think he is  You should see the kind of shit he says at the Konoha Bathhouse


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## DemonDragonJ (May 16, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> You innocent mind





BlazingInferno said:


>



Perhaps I should have asked if you could name a specific story in which that happened, because I have read many _Star Wars_ stories, and I have never read anything about the Jedi experimenting on non-sentient animals.


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## Mider T (May 16, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> non-sentient animals.


I'm kind of surprised you didn't say "non-human animals". @RemChu


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## DemonDragonJ (May 16, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I'm kind of surprised you didn't say "non-human animals". @RemChu



That is because, in the _Star Wars_ universe, there are many non-human species that have sentience comparable to that of humans.


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## Mider T (May 16, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is because, in the _Star Wars_ universe, there are many non-human species that have sentience comparable to that of humans.


 Very true.  You smart

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Magic (May 17, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I'm kind of surprised you didn't say "non-human animals". @RemChu


Why Trigger me D:


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## Jake CENA (May 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Perhaps I should have asked if you could name a specific story in which that happened, because I have read many _Star Wars_ stories, and I have never read anything about the Jedi experimenting on non-sentient animals.



holy shit, i just realized a Bot quoted me.


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## BlazingInferno (May 17, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Very true.  You smart



That's mean, Mider. You know sarcasm doesn't compute to him


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## Roman (May 19, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> That is because, in the _Star Wars_ universe, there are many non-human species that have sentience comparable to that of humans.


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## Jessica (May 23, 2017)

I really, really, really want the Kenobi theory to be true.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (May 23, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (May 24, 2017)

*Spoiler*: _Pics_ 





performed countless simulations


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## Swarmy (May 24, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> *Spoiler*: _Pics_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When a movie turns into a fashion show


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## Catalyst75 (May 24, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> When a movie turns into a fashion show



Wasn't that the Prequel Trilogy?


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## Swarmy (May 24, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Wasn't that the Prequel Trilogy?


Princess stuff I guess


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## dr_shadow (May 25, 2017)

Happy Star Wars 40th anniversary, guys!


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## BlazingInferno (May 25, 2017)

I just bet the PoeFinn shippers are dying for Lucasfilm to confirm they're gay in honor of the 40th anniversary


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## dr_shadow (May 25, 2017)

You would have thought that the 40th anniversary would be a good time for Fox (who still hold distribution rights) to release the original trilogy on Netflix.

But nope, fuck modernity, apparently.


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## dr_shadow (May 25, 2017)

Re-watched _Star Wars: A New Hope_ for the anniversary.

Even after 40 years the visuals are still amazing, although the plot is a bit rudimentary. But that's ok since it was meant to be a self-aware homage to old campy adventure serials.

It's weird how much they were seemingly banking on a sequel even when they had no idea if this weird space movie would succeed or not. The whole Jedi thing is not explored very in-depth other than Luke vaguely awakening the Force at the end, and Darth Vader just escapes to a fate unknown. If they hadn't made _Empire_ you'd have wondered what was the point of any of that.

If you re-wrote it today you should probably make it more similar to the first _Matrix_, where the hero's newfound superpowers are showcased more extensively and the villain is seemingly killed (by way of said superpowers). That way it works both as a stand-alone film and as the opening act of a trilogy, depending on reception.


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## dr_shadow (May 25, 2017)

Have you thought about how long and convoluted the second act (Death Star segment) in ANH is?

In the blu-ray cut it runs to something like 30 minutes, but I think you could have easily cut it to 15.

While in the first (Tatooine) and third (Yavin) acts I feel like every scene has a purpose, the Death Star act has a lot of cuttable fluff.

Like, what's the point of the garbage compactor scene? The multiple shots of Obi-Wan sneaking around? The scene where stormtroopers walk in on 3PO and R2 only to let them go?

There's even a scene of the gang waiting for an elevator when they're taking Chewie to the prison bloc. 

The milestones you need to hit in that act are:

-Free Leia
-Disable tractor beam & reclaim ship
-Showdown between Obi-Wan and Vader

There must have been a much more linear and coherent way of hitting those story beats than the endless running around in circles we've got now.

Admittedly it's maybe more "realistic" this way, but I get bored when I can't see how what's going on is working towards the final objective. If you introduce a threat (e.g. the squid monster) only to have it go away in the same scene, it's the same as it not being there in the first place.


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## Legend (May 27, 2017)

Kelly Marie Tran is cute


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 15, 2017)

So Rian Johnson confirmed that he'll be at D23 today and given there wasn't any SW panel announced for Comic Con there should be something substantial or cool in store for today.

A trailer appears to be bound to come out.


These are already out so at best a new poster and more artwork.


So before anything comes out I wanted to share these from the SW Celebration event back a few months ago.

Oscar Isaac shared an *intense scene with Carrie Fisher.*
Rian Johnson *had a reason to change the placement of Kylo Ren's scar.*
Some possible plot point regarding the new planet the teaser featured, *Crait.*
*More will be revealed about Poe's character.*
The characters' flaws *will be explored.*
Rian Johnson stated The Last Jedi *won't be like The Empire Strikes Back. *Also that the movie will explore *why Luke went into exile, * that *he has creative control over the film *and what films *inspired the film.*
*The kind of the tone the movie will have.*
John Boyega about Finn's *mission while dealing with the gravity of his injury.*
Adam Driver about how *new rules are going to be established.*
Post production will end *on August.*
Finally something interesting about this cantina known as *"Canto Bight":*



> Though not much is known about either of these new characters, it _looks_ as though Dern’s Admiral Holdo would fit right in with the high-class occupants of Canto Bight—_The Last Jedi_’s upscale answer to the Mos Eisley cantina. It’s especially odd to see the upper echelon of the galaxy partying in _The Last Jedi_ considering that the capital planet of the New Republic, Hosnian Prime, was blown up by the First Order’s Starkiller in _The Force Awakens_. Are these well-dressed patrons just fiddling while Rome burns?
> 
> *“What we’re going to see in The Last Jedi,”* Hidalgo explains, *“are some people who have managed to carve out a life for themselves where they can live apart from the galactic struggle. They found a way to live above it or beyond it. There’s a class of wealthy that have helped build all sorts of loopholes in society that will always ensure that they’ll survive or even thrive no matter what else is happening out there.”* As Johnson summed it up in our cover story, Canto Bight is “*a playground, basically, for rich assholes.”*


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 15, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 15, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 15, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 15, 2017)




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## Kisame3rd14 (Jul 16, 2017)

Its hard for me to believe that Rey's parents can add something to the story. Infact I don't even believe they matter outside of the fact they weren't fleshed out in TFA.

Obviously her backstory does matter because she seems to have been mind wiped and the "who's the girl?" comment from Maz. But does that mean her parents still have to matter? No.

Now if Luke or someone else in TLJ says something along the lines of "her parents just dumped her off because they knew she was special" and there *is not *a full reveal in TLJ, then I am all aboard the hype train.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 18, 2017)

So Laura Dern is in here now huh?

I must say that without Luca's artistic direction, everything just feels like a generic sci-fi film to me. Should I give this the benefit of the doubt?


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## Pilaf (Jul 18, 2017)

Wonder what the red is all about. They're driving that motif pretty hard, with the sand and now the posters.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 21, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 22, 2017)

Link removed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 27, 2017)



Reactions: Winner 2


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## Mider T (Jul 27, 2017)

Rey looks much better with her hair out but her five head still holds her back from her true potential.


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## Legend (Jul 27, 2017)

I still have a feeling her and Ben will have a double turn


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## Skaddix (Jul 28, 2017)

I am sorry Snoke looks like this and he ruined the OT and Luke? 

Sorry just sorry Snoke looks like shit and in no way looks Final Boss material...the problem is Kylo was a frakking Joke in TFA so him starscreaming Snoke means the Final Boss is lame either way.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 28, 2017)

Snoke looks almost as if he is undead, given the appearance of the left side of his face.  I wonder what he went through in the past to wind up looking like that (that said, the Dark Side has a habit of disfiguring its users).

If it is anything like Palpatine, then Snoke's power with the Dark Side must be considerable, if he's alive with that kind of disfigurement.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pilaf (Jul 28, 2017)

Something about Snoke wearing gold and being super old and blue eyed reminds me of the elderly pimp from Kill Bill. Like he's calm and refined but he'll cut your face.


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## Mider T (Jul 28, 2017)

Who is the chubby Asian chick?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 28, 2017)

Rose Tico, a member of the Resistance who works in maintenance.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Jul 30, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 30, 2017)

that editing is pro

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 30, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> So Laura Dern is in here now huh?
> 
> I must say that without *Luca's artistic direction*, everything just feels like a generic sci-fi film to me. Should I give this the benefit of the doubt?



prequels were shit _because of Lucas._ 

OT was superior because every shit idea he put forward was either shot down or heavily modified by "non-crazies".

I _do_ think that he shoulda been brought on as an EP or consultant though; for the sake of balance.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 31, 2017)




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## sworder (Jul 31, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> OT was pure Lucas Art Direction.
> 
> Prequel triology failed cause he wanted to play a team game as solo. He was doomed to fail from the start but his art direction has always been top tier.


how is it that much better than what we have now?

"x is great sci-fi and y is generic sci-fi" is hardly legitimate criticism

I barely remember ep 7 but I've seen rogue one 3 times and the art direction seemed just as good as usual


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## Suigetsu (Jul 31, 2017)

sworder said:


> how is it that much better than what we have now?
> 
> "x is great sci-fi and y is generic sci-fi" is hardly legitimate criticism
> 
> I barely remember ep 7 but I've seen rogue one 3 times and the art direction seemed just as good as usual


Its not star wars, that plain and simple. 
Why? Cause its not the same art direction, it would be like someone attempting to immitate Dhali and call it Dhali.


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## sworder (Jul 31, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Its not star wars, that plain and simple.
> Why? Cause its not the same art direction, it would be like someone attempting to immitate Dhali and call it Dhali.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 2, 2017)

> During an appearance on Popcorn with Peter Travers, John Boyega, who plays Finn in the current _Star Wars_ trilogy, spoke about Fisher’s death and how the character is handled in_ The Last Jedi_. Here is what he said:
> 
> *“This movie, it sends her off in a very amazing, amazing way. She’s still kept alive in this franchise. You know, that’s the beauty of it, she lives forever in a sense.”*


Popcorn with Peter Travers


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 3, 2017)




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## Mider T (Aug 3, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Rose Tico, a member of the Resistance who works in maintenance.


Even focusing on grease monkeys now?  New SW is all inclusive.


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## The World (Aug 3, 2017)

Carrie Fisher will be frozen in carbonite

so she will be kept alive in a sense


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 3, 2017)

> *Star Wars: John Boyega on the 'different energy' of The Last Jedi*
> 
> J.J. Abrams charmed audiences and critics alike when he brought _Star Wars_back to the big screen with _The Force Awakens_ in 2015. But how will the latest trilogy in the franchise fare now that a new director has taken over the reins for _The Last Jedi_ (in theaters Dec. 15)?
> 
> ...


his searing new film _Detroit_


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 3, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Even focusing on grease monkeys now?  New SW is all inclusive.


in the Chinese release of the film she'll have a pivotal role in blowing up the 4th Deathstarkiller base.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 4, 2017)

Link removed


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 8, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 9, 2017)




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## RAGING BONER (Aug 9, 2017)

they keep showing Finn with a lightsaber. 
All I gotta say to that is:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 9, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 







> *Daisy Ridley as Rey at the ruins of the first Jedi temple.*
> As Rey already knows, you have to search for a bit to find Luke Skywalker. We've got new details and images from their encounter in _The Last Jedi_ to launch our cover story rollout ...







> *Can Rey save Luke from his own darkness?*
> 
> Writer-director Rian Johnson says one theme of _The Last Jedi_ is the peril of meeting your heroes. In Part 1 of EW's cover story, we dive into the meeting between Luke Skywalker and Rey -- and their unexpected clash.







> *Finn and Rose, on a mission to Canto Bight*
> 
> The hero theme of The Last Jedi is also a part of the Finn storyline, with John Boyega's ex-stormtrooper seriously considering becoming an ex-good-guy, too. But in Part 2 of EW's cover story, we explore how Kelly Marie Tran's Rose Tico, a Resistance mechanic, helps pull him back from the brink.







> *Chewbacca and the porgs*
> 
> These puffin-like creatures from the island of the first Jedi temple are cute, cuddly, and vexing to Wookiees. More here in Part 3 of EW's _The Last Jedi_coverage: The Creatures of Ahch-To.







> *The Caretakers of Ahch-To*
> 
> These amphibious creatures are what writer-director Rian Johnson describes as alien nuns -- a religious order, faithful to the Force, who tend to the ancient Jedi structures on Ahch-To. Read more about them in Part 3 of our _Star Wars_coverage.







> *The Praetorian Guard*
> 
> Modeled on the Emperor's ceremonial watchmen from Return of the Jedi, these crimson-armored bodyguards are more like samurai. More on them (and the tyrant they protect) in Part 4 of EW's _The Last Jedi_ cover story.







> *Adam Driver as Kylo Ren, in retreat*
> 
> _The Last Jedi_ will bring us face-to-what's-left-of-his-face with Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis,) who stands as Kylo Ren's master and manipulator from the dark side of the Force.







> *Oscar Isaac as X-wing ace Poe Dameron*
> 
> Tomorrow, EW has a story about the bond between the Resistance's best fighter pilot and Carrie Fisher's General Leia Organa.








> *John Boyega's Finn, learning to fly.*
> 
> The ex-stormtrooper was not a pilot in _The Force Awakens_, but he picks up new skills in _The Last Jedi_. This morning, look for new photos in EW's feature on his covert mission with a new character: Kelly Marie Tran's Resistance mechanic Rose Tico.







> *Kylo Ren's new starfighter*
> 
> The TIE Silencer is a new ship, modeled on Darth Vader's TIE Advanced X1 from the original 1977 _Star Wars_ and the TIE Interceptors from _Return of the Jedi_. This image features the ship in battle, flanked by the more expendable TIE Fighters.







> *The Casino at Canto Bight*
> 
> Finn and Rose's mission takes them to this glamorous galactic getaway -- a city of light and games, where fortunes are won and lost. We'll have more information today about the spike-winged little ships on the landing pad.







> *The masters of The Last Jedi*
> 
> (From left): Producer Ram Bergman, who worked with writer-director Rian Johnson on all of his films, including _Brick_ and _Looper_, in discussion with Lucasfilm president and _The Last Jedi_producer Kathleen Kennedy.







> *Rian Johnson directing Carrie Fisher as Leia Organa*
> 
> The Last Jedi will mark a farewell to the actress, who died unexpectedly in December. Tomorrow's story will shed new light on what we can expect to see in this last film featuring the princess who became a general.


The TIE Silencer is a new ship






> *The Last Jedi: Can Rey save Luke Skywalker from his own darkness?*
> 
> Perhaps the only thing more unsettling than meeting your enemy is coming face-to-face with your hero.
> 
> ...


_The Force Awakens_


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 9, 2017)

> *The Last Jedi: Supreme Leader Snoke emerges with elite Praetorian Guard*
> 
> Villains always have heroes of their own. But they’re not necessarily anyone you’d ever want to meet.
> 
> ...


Snoke theories



> *The Last Jedi: With Finn and Rose, a 'big deal' is redeemed by 'a nobody'*
> 
> We’ve already seen John Boyega’s conscience-stricken Stormtrooper try to escape from a life of wrongdoing. In _The Last Jedi_, Finn finds himself ready to abandon the good guys, too.
> 
> ...


_The Last Jedi_



> *The Last Jedi: Meet the porgs and 'The Caretakers' from Luke Skywalker's island*
> 
> Who doesn’t like porgs? They’re all cute, and fluffy, and ingratiating…
> 
> ...


_The Force Awakens_


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 10, 2017)

> *The Last Jedi: In her final role, Carrie Fisher restores hope for Leia Organa*
> 
> Live fearlessly, live boldly, and even after you’re gone that strength and inspiration burn on.
> 
> ...


behind-the-scenes video for _The Last Jedi_



> *The Last Jedi: New details on Benicio Del Toro's devious character*
> 
> It’s hard to know where Benicio Del Toro’s new character stands in _The Last Jedi_ — even when he tells us.
> 
> ...


the mission that John Boyega’s Finn and Kelly Marie Tran’s Rose undertake to the wealthy, gambling resort city of Canto Bight


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## Skaddix (Aug 11, 2017)

Legend said:


> I still have a feeling her and Ben will have a double turn



Is a Double Turn good then evil again?

The problem turning Kylo is much the same problem with turning Vader. Snoke and Palpatine werent especially compelling alternatives sure the heroes had a reason to dislike him in the abstract but it wasnt personal cause directly Palpatine wasnt doing it.

Besides does anyone really think Snoke is so powerful he can fight Luke, Rey and Kylo at the same time?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 11, 2017)

> *The Last Jedi: Rey takes her first steps toward uncovering her family history*
> 
> Rey’s family has become the “Rosebud” of _Star Wars_: Who are they? What’s their significance? How will that revelation shape her destiny?
> 
> ...


still this one


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## John Wick (Aug 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Is a Double Turn good then evil again?
> 
> The problem turning Kylo is much the same problem with turning Vader. Snoke and Palpatine werent especially compelling alternatives sure the heroes had a reason to dislike him in the abstract but it wasnt personal cause directly Palpatine wasnt doing it.
> 
> Besides does anyone really think Snoke is so powerful he can fight Luke, Rey and Kylo at the same time?


Palpatine looked like a pensioners vagina and he was hella strong....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Aug 12, 2017)

He looked old and creepy not crippled.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 16, 2017)

> *The Last Jedi: Kylo Ren's humiliation and other tales from the Star Wars dark side*
> 
> As we close out EW’s cover story on _The Last Jedi_, let’s take a trip into the dark side of the galaxy.
> 
> ...


 Found it.


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## Jake CENA (Aug 18, 2017)

kylo ren looks like a pervert

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Swarmy (Aug 18, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> kylo ren looks like a pervert

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## dr_shadow (Aug 19, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Besides does anyone really think Snoke is so powerful he can fight Luke, Rey and Kylo at the same time?



"Size matters not."

"Only different in your mind."

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."


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## Skaddix (Aug 21, 2017)

Not sure how that is relevant...


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## Swarmy (Aug 21, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."


Unless you happen to be on that planet


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## Amol (Aug 22, 2017)

Middle ugly looks like	Davros from Doctor Who. Maybe he is creating Daleks for First Order .


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 23, 2017)




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## Catalyst75 (Aug 24, 2017)

If the Mandator IV's appearance is consistent with those of previous generations, this is what Mandator-class Dreadnoughts that served in the Grand Army of the Republic and the Galactic Empire looked like (minus those massive cannons on the bottom), at least in the Disney canon.  But I'm slightly disappointed - I thought those cannons would be super-lasers.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 24, 2017)

fingers crossed that the big twist of "_The last Jedi strikes back_" is that MaRey SueWalker becomes the villain.

Reactions: Optimistic 4


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## Suigetsu (Aug 30, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Top Ten Anime TV Ratings


That trooper helmet is shaped like a musshroom/penis? my god in what where they thinking?!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Swarmy (Aug 31, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> That trooper helmet is shaped like a musshroom/penis? my god in what where they thinking?!


I'm not seeing it


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## Suigetsu (Aug 31, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> I'm not seeing it


The red one.


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## Swarmy (Aug 31, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> The red one.


Still doesn't look like a penis to me


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## Suigetsu (Aug 31, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> Still doesn't look like a penis to me


Oh, sweet summer child.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Swarmy (Aug 31, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Oh, sweet summer child.


I'm way too innocent

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Lewd 1


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## Pilaf (Aug 31, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Sep 5, 2017)

Rian fucking up with Relategate.
Colin is out of IX


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 22, 2017)

Post production is over.


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## Kisame3rd14 (Sep 24, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> fingers crossed that the big twist of "_The last Jedi strikes back_" is that MaRey SueWalker becomes the villain.


That would singlehandedly put this trilogy on par with the OT, but the SJW'S ain't having none of that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Sep 24, 2017)

Yeah aint no way KK has her self insert turn evil...Luke would turn evil sooner then that would happen. 

I do wonder what the shocking reveal is though cause it cant be Kylo Redemption ignoring Rian Johnson Twitter Page.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Sep 24, 2017)

I guess Finn is never gonna be a force user

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Sep 24, 2017)

Hmm well actually I say the odds are up, don't get me wrong still low but JJ is back with more power then ever before KK cant fire JJ when JJ brought 2 Billion and she has already fired CT along with a bunch of other directors...and since JJ laid the hints for FS in Finn,w ell the odds are better not great or even good but I think we at least went from F to D.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 3


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 24, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Hmm well actually I say the odds are up, don't get me wrong still low but JJ is back with more power then ever before KK cant fire JJ when JJ brought 2 Billion and she has already fired CT along with a bunch of other directors...and since JJ laid the hints for FS in Finn,w ell the odds are better not great or even good but I think we at least went from F to D.


c'mon bruh...don't do this to yourself.

JJ Binks is the dude who made Finn a space janitor that got lashed across his back by his master's space whip.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Sep 24, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> c'mon bruh...don't do this to yourself.
> 
> JJ Binks is the dude who made Finn a space janitor that got lashed across his back by his master's space whip.



I said from F to D Boner.  Don't worry about me as long as KK is in charge I don't expect much from this franchise.


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## The World (Sep 25, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 4


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## Skaddix (Sep 25, 2017)

Shouldn't the last one be acceptance?

Still @The World not bad I got banned on two Star Wars Forums and 1 Comic Book Forum for calling it like it was on TFA. She is a Mary Sue of the Highest Order.


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## Indra (Sep 25, 2017)

The setup just feels wrong. He's unconscious, wakes up, and then goes on a mission. I feel like if he isn't introduced to have some type of force ability in this Movie, then there's no hope. Figuratively and literally lol. Just something wouldn't feel right if they forced in him having those powers later down the line, instead of doing it now. I get that Rey needs to have her focus, but a confirmation would be nice instead of looking forward to nothing.

Crossing my fingers tho.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Sep 26, 2017)

Eh I'm not a huge fan of Rey, but Mary Sue tends to be more specific than just "someone who becomes powerful for no special reason".

Or every story's protagonist would be an MS.


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## Skaddix (Sep 26, 2017)

She is OP (her force powers progressed faster then any other force user and shooting a blaster is her worst skill where she is simply average at worst but she is also a martial arts master, multilingual with droid and Wookie on the list, a genius mechanic and ace pilot),
Everyone Loves Her (In Universe, Han wants to hire her, Finn wants to pork her, as does Kylo, and along with Snoke wants a new apprentice)
She has No Negative Character Traits (wanting to wait for your family is not a negative character trait, she is a saint in hell).

She is Text Book, Mary Sue.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## ~Gesy~ (Sep 26, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> She is OP (her force powers progressed faster then any other force user


Eh...Luke self taught himself to surpass Vader after what...a couple years after learning what a lightsaber even was?


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## Skaddix (Sep 26, 2017)

Couple years is better than 0.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Zef (Sep 27, 2017)

Indra said:


> I guess Finn is never gonna be a force user


Finn is token black character that makes jokes, and bumbles around.

If they have him acting like a fool in this movie I won't bother watching episode 9.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## dr_shadow (Sep 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Eh...Luke self taught himself to surpass Vader after what...a couple years after learning what a lightsaber even was?



Possible retcon could be that Vader was (subconsciously?) holding back because he was reluctant to kill his own son.

But then again in the final Death Star confrontation, Luke doesn't want to kill Vader either. So it's a fight between two people who are reluctant to fight the other but do it anyway because the Emperor is forcing them to.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 27, 2017)



Reactions: Informative 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Sep 28, 2017)

Rey is a boring one-dimensional character, if it wasn't for the secret of her past we wouldn't give a rats ass. 

Like @RAGING BONER said, if she doesn't turn evil this trilogy will be a fun cinematic experience but hollow from a storytelling perspective.


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## dr_shadow (Sep 28, 2017)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Rey is a boring one-dimensional character, if it wasn't for the secret of her past we wouldn't give a rats ass.
> 
> Like @RAGING BONER said, if she doesn't turn evil this trilogy will be a fun cinematic experience but hollow from a storytelling perspective.



More like Luke will turn evil so Hamill can do his Joker laugh.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 28, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> More like Luke will turn evil so Hamill can do his Joker laugh.


hmm...makes sense. How better for Rey to smash the Space-patriarchy?

She beat Kylo in 7, beats Luke in 8 and crushes Darf Snokeus in 9 

fuck this gay world

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Mider T (Sep 28, 2017)

@Megaharrison is that you?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 28, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Eh I'm not a huge fan of Rey, but Mary Sue tends to be more specific than just "someone who becomes powerful for no special reason".
> 
> Or every story's protagonist would be an MS.



That is generally the case.  It becomes such a case when the point is repetitively hammered home by the author/writer.  Meanwhile, for the Sequel Trilogy, we are only one movie in, yet the accusations are already flying.  



~Gesy~ said:


> Eh...Luke self taught himself to surpass Vader after what...a couple years after learning what a lightsaber even was?



And it is not as if Ren got a hole gouged out of his side by a Wookiee Bolt-caster, had his dominant sword-arm wounded by a non-Force wielding ex-Stormtrooper, or was suffering emotional turmoil from just killing his father.   

People really like to ignore those factors when going on about their childhoods being ruined, as if what happens in the present can go back in time and re-shape the past.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The World (Sep 28, 2017)

that's some lateral thinking

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Sep 28, 2017)

And how do you explain Rey's Jedi Mind Trick?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 28, 2017)

and telekinesis

and absolute lack of character flaws...you know, those things that make people human?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Kisame3rd14 (Sep 28, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> That is generally the case.  It becomes such a case when the point is repetitively hammered home by the author/writer.  Meanwhile, for the Sequel Trilogy, we are only one movie in, yet the accusations are already flying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ren is getting trampled by the entire SJW movement in one swipe. And it's people like this who are the reason for it.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 29, 2017)

I am so thankful I don't get overly attached to things from my childhood, or try to super-impose my political views on things I watch and read.

1. It was her mistake with the _Eravana's_ controls that let loose the rathtars on the ship and endangered everyone that was on board, rather than shutting the ship doors as originally intended.

2. She originally could not cope with the reality that the person who left her on Jakku was never coming back, and initially ran off into the woods rather than come to terms with her connection to the Force, which is what led directly to her capture by Kylo Ren in the woods.  

Furthermore, we're only one movie into the trilogy, with the mystery of her parentage being part of her story arc.  I'll judge _after _the whole story comes out, not before.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 29, 2017)

I don't think anyone's that attached...just calling the bullshit when we see it 

1. Was a contrived scenario to show her awesomeness with the force in how she saved the space janitor with her fancy force intuition 

2. Was poorly written horse shit

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Megaharrison (Sep 29, 2017)

Mider T said:


> @Megaharrison is that you?



no, though I have posted a lot of anti-TFA threads. I post on /co/ though, not /tv/. /tv/ is overrun with butthurt /pol/estinians and pedophiles

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Sep 29, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I am so thankful I don't get overly attached to things from my childhood, or try to super-impose my political views on things I watch and read.
> 
> 1. It was her mistake with the _Eravana's_ controls that let loose the rathtars on the ship and endangered everyone that was on board, rather than shutting the ship doors as originally intended.
> 
> ...



1. That was comedy.

2. She immediately became an expert at Jedi mind tricks and fucked Kylo's mind with a proverbial horse cock.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Sep 29, 2017)

Her Staff She Fucked Him With Her Staff.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Megaharrison (Sep 29, 2017)

Time for my full list of issues that I've copy-pasta'd. Fresh from me first seeing TFA only hours previous in December 2015.



> This movie was shit. The prequels were disappointing and this movie was "fun", but its no excuse for what was otherwise a huge letdown. Rather than "ur just bitching turn ur brain off XD!" stuff, here's a concise list of the issues with this film.
> 
> 
> This was just a remake of episode four, I don't even consider it it's own movie. JJ remade ET as super 8 and wrath of khan as Into darkness. This movie is no different. JJ has an inability to make anything original.
> ...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Indra (Oct 2, 2017)

QUOTE said:
			
		

> John Boyega is a child soldier raised from birth. No wait, he's a janitor!



That was such a _shitty _addition to the story. 



Zef said:


> Finn is token black character that makes jokes, and bumbles around.
> 
> If they have him acting like a fool in this movie I won't bother watching episode 9.


If he turns out to be the love interest plot line for Rey (and that's his only relevance in the story) -- I'm out.


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## Zef (Oct 3, 2017)

Indra said:


> That was such a _shitty _addition to the story.
> 
> 
> If he turns out to be the love interest plot line for Rey (and that's his only relevance in the story) -- I'm out.


Pretty sure they're introducing that Asian girl so that Finn can't even be Rey's love interest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 3, 2017)

Zef said:


> Pretty sure they're introducing that Asian girl so that Finn can't even be Rey's love interest.



And they wants us to thank LF for their Diversity? POC get the B-Plot, No Force Powers, Cant get a main romance and god forbid them getting any focus at all if Kylo is redeemed.

Anyone see Forces of Destiny...where Finn is an idiot so Rey and Chewie can shine...SMFH.

I need Han Solo to flop and XIII to back fire to be free of the curse of KK.

Yeah George used the stereotypes but he had the decency to make them aliens that didn't look to human. And his self insert Luke was allowed to have flaws and not be sickeningly perfect al the time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pocalypse (Oct 3, 2017)

Jyn > Rey.


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## Skaddix (Oct 3, 2017)

She had flaws and wasn't the best at everything so yeah.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 5, 2017)

Zef said:


> Pretty sure they're introducing that Asian girl so that Finn can't even be Rey's love interest.


 

fuuuuuuuuuuuck

chick is gremlin tier

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Zef (Oct 5, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> fuuuuuuuuuuuck
> 
> chick is gremlin tier


They couldn't even find Finn a fine looking love interest.
Finn forever losing.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 5, 2017)

Zef said:


> They couldn't even find Finn a fine looking love interest.
> Finn forever losing.



Nah man..she kissed him in the end of the last film..kinda

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Suigetsu (Oct 5, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Eh...Luke self taught himself to surpass Vader after what...a couple years after learning what a lightsaber even was?


Luke sucked for two entire movies, Yoda taught him and he still got rekt, hell you could even tell in ROTJ he still got his ass handled by Vader.

Also poor Finn, being Finn is suffering.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 5, 2017)

first time i saw Empire, i legit felt scared for not just Luke but all the main characters...

even in RotJ when "Da Emprah" was turning him into fried bacon_i was tense there too.

in Awakens? I was never concerned over any of these characters.

I mean, had they not come to "rescue" Rey she would have just figured out a way to destroy the Starkiller base all by herself; commandeered a ship and flown off to find Luke.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 5, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Luke sucked for two entire movies, Yoda taught him and he still got rekt, hell you could even tell in ROTJ he still got his ass handled by Vader.
> 
> Also poor Finn, being Finn is suffering.



Yoda barely taught him anything combat wise.  All he basically did was make sure he didn't become like his father.


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## Suigetsu (Oct 5, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Yoda barely taught him anything combat wise.  All he basically did was make sure he didn't become like his father.


And Obi-wan did not? He taught him how to fight using the force, even if a little. That's why he kept getting pwned in every movie. Vader kept toying with him in all the encounters


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 8, 2017)

> It's official - the brand new trailer for Rian Johnson's _*Star Wars: The Last Jedi*_ will debut at halftime during ESPN’s Monday Night Football game between the Minnesota Vikings and the Chicago Bears, which kicks off at at *5: 15 p.m. PST / 8: 15 p.m.*


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 8, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Is that official?


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

So about an hour until the trailer...


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

Time to update the thread title mods!


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## Zef (Oct 9, 2017)

I predict Finn sleeping in the trailer.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Zef said:


> I predict Finn sleeping in the trailer.



BOLD Prediction.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

I predict Galactic Stunna sweating profusely while in a coma, because even in his dreams, the thirst is real.

Also:



Stunna said:


> *Sees Poster*
> 
> GIVE IT TO ME, DADDY LUKE
> 
> ALL OVER MY FACE

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

ALSO WHY THE FUCK IS POE ON THE SIDE OF THE POSTER WHICH HAS THE ORDER!?

DAMN MY POWERS OF OBSERVATION

I CANNOT UNSEE THIS

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Legend (Oct 9, 2017)

Its good but the Celebration Poster is better.


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

Also, is this the first time BB8's arch nemesis has appeared on any promotional material?


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## Legend (Oct 9, 2017)

Detective said:


> Also, is this the first time BB8's arch nemesis has appeared on any promotional material?


Yep


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

U know they picked a great football game to put this trailer in front of...aint no one going to be talking about this shit show.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

I wonder if Leia was originally supposed to be in the middle of the poster...


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2017)

YouTube link.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Snoke is force crushing Rey.
Dark Side Rey Implied Joining Kylo. 
Kylo is suppose to have raw power that scared Luke? The same Kylo that got beat by an untrained Rey? 
Kylo hesitating on Killing Leia.

Finn actually doing something. Poe talking mostly but they had like 15 seconds total. No Rose.

Yep the force plot is all that matters and the diversity is windowdressing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Atlas (Oct 9, 2017)

Was that a major spoiler in that trailer?


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## Zef (Oct 9, 2017)

Meh trailer tbh.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> YouTube link.



@ 2:00 - When you nut and she keeps on sucking like a cosmic blackhole

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Minato Namikaze. (Oct 9, 2017)

Making Luke look like sissy in the trailer

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Zef said:


> Meh trailer tbh.



It was a trailer made for Reylos quite frankly. 

I assume the spoiler was Dark Side Rey Joining Kylo? Or Snoke Force Crushing Rey?

Those are the only things that really stood out.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Minato Namikaze. said:


> Making Luke look like sissy in the trailer



You are surprised they plan to sacrifice the OGs to beef up Kylo and Rey?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

You know I like this trailer because I think KK just took her first step to her demise.


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2017)

Minato Namikaze. said:


> Making Luke look like sissy in the trailer


Luke? What about Kylo who for 2 movies is still trying to prove how bad he is.


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

Kylo is pretty much Zuko now.

Good and evil raging inside of him, powerful but pales in comparison to the younger girl, has a scar, probably will choose good but the end of this, etc.


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## Legend (Oct 9, 2017)

MY BODY IS READY


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

Dat Detail(and the clarity of the reflection of Galactic Stunna)


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## Zef (Oct 9, 2017)

Am I supposed to take Finn vs Phasma seriously after Finn humiliated her in TFA??


Snoke was pretty cool in the trailer, and that's about all I can say.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Zef said:


> Am I supposed to take Finn vs Phasma seriously after Finn humiliated her in TFA??
> 
> 
> Snoke was pretty cool in the trailer, and that's about all I can say.



Indeed. I actually expect him to win this time but the hype is gone but there is also the question on how Finn would get better at melee after jumping out of the hospital bed with no rehab....

Snoke beating Rey is nice I guess. But I am sure she will think about the "Force" and then beat his ass like she did to Kylo.

Luke is bitch in this talking about how great and special Kylo and Rey are makes me sick to my stomach. Strongest Powers He Felt? Did he forget fucking Palpatine and Darth Vader cause I don't seen either of them getting their assses beat by an untrained Mary Sue.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2017)

Lol Kylo and Rey haven't reached their full potential.  They may have a higher ceiling than Palp and vader.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

God if the Dark Side Existed, I would have fallen watching this shitshow.


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## The World (Oct 9, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Lol Kylo and Rey haven't reached their full potential.  They may have a higher ceiling than Palp and vader.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Gabe (Oct 9, 2017)

Cool trailer. I’m ready for this movie luckily I was able to get my ticket early today.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2017)




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## Shark Skin (Oct 9, 2017)

IDK. I'm torn. Something just felt underwhelming with this trailer.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

Is it just me or did Kylo look like Anakin at the beginning of that trailer?


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2017)

None of the scenes in the trailer really grabbed me tbh.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Shark Skin (Oct 9, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Is it just me or did Kylo look like Anakin at the beginning of that trailer?


Yeah a lil' bit.


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## Detective (Oct 9, 2017)

Shark Skin said:


> Yeah a lil' bit.



Yeah, he looked like a lil' bitch. Dat continuity from TFA.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Atlas (Oct 9, 2017)

Detective said:


> Yeah, he looked like a lil' bitch. Dat continuity from TFA.



It's like poetry.


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

Way to support the cause guys.


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## Shark Skin (Oct 9, 2017)

Its all falling apart.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Way to support the cause guys.



My Cause is wanting KK Fired.


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> My Cause is wanting KK Fired.


Point to where she touched you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 9, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Point to where she touched you.



I don't believe in counseling.


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

Just Remember Ewoks bad Porgs good. Why because its not George....after all a technology inferior force has never beat a technologically superior force on their home turf in a dense jungle....nope never happened before.


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## The World (Oct 9, 2017)

George was a hack but KK is a narcissistic cunt.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## The World (Oct 9, 2017)




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## RAGING BONER (Oct 9, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I don't believe in counseling.


you say that now_but when Phasma puts Finn into a coma

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The World (Oct 9, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> you say that now_but when Phasma puts Finn into a coma


Phasma gonna ride him like a Bantha

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> you say that now_but when Phasma puts Finn into a coma



Eh you well its either that or a shooting spree.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 9, 2017)

The World said:


> George was a hack but KK is a narcissistic cunt.



Eh at least George built something all KK has done her career is ride the coattails of more talented guys be it George Lucas or Steven Speilberg.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 10, 2017)

Poe is about to give Kylo dem space hands

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 10, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Lol Kylo and Rey haven't reached their full potential.  They may have a higher ceiling than Palp and vader.




Palpatine was not the "Chosen One" and always believed Vader would become more powerful than him.  However, recall that Vader got three of his limbs cut off at Mustafar, and then was left to burn in the one realistic moment in cinema where lava actually burns someone that is not standing in it.

Kylo Ren is two generations down the line, with Luke said to be equal to Anakin at his true potential.

This movie will answer the question as to what is going on with Rey.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 10, 2017)

Fandango never stood a chance.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 10, 2017)

Huey Freeman said:


> Poe is about to give Kylo dem space hands


that latino is lucky they didn't make _him_ a space janitor too

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Atlas (Oct 10, 2017)

The World said:


> Phasma gonna ride him like a Bantha



At least she'll be doing something.


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## Skaddix (Oct 10, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> that latino is lucky they didn't make _him_ a space janitor too



Space Farmer.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 10, 2017)



Reactions: Friendly 1


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## The World (Oct 10, 2017)

that dog has his own instagram?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 10, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 10, 2017)

Meh yeah well I thought he beat a Stormtrooper...

Fool Me Once Shame On You
Fool Me Twice Shame On Me


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## Rukia (Oct 10, 2017)

Rey was forced to go to Kylo because Luke is such a fucking coward.  Dude has quit.  Given up on the universe.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vault (Oct 10, 2017)

This looks bad  Disney has really fucked with this franchise.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Pilaf (Oct 10, 2017)

This trailer is cut kind of awkwardly. 

I do like the prehistoric bear/cave sloth design for the Walkers, and Snoke's design.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 10, 2017)

Kylo mah boi

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pocalypse (Oct 10, 2017)

Exciting trailer but too much misdirection in the trailer I think. Can't trust anything for shit. I'm 100% sure that Kylo and Rey aren't talking to each other in that end scene but to different people. It's done to fool us.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rindaman (Oct 10, 2017)

Vault said:


> This looks bad  Kathleen Kennedy has really fucked with this franchise.



At this point the entire franchise has become a self insert for KK.  All of the main "Heroine" have  her physical  features and characteristics and every male character seems to be emasculated in one way or another.  I'm just waiting for the rest of the world to catch on.

Maybe once someone catches her on a private racist rant. But seriously , this bitch needs to go.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Rai (Oct 10, 2017)

Looks good/hyped ​

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 10, 2017)

the franchise has turned to complete shit


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## Mider T (Oct 10, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Rey was forced to go to Kylo because Luke is such a fucking coward.  Dude has quit.  Given up on the universe.


I think it's more because she is realizing that to become the most powerful Jedi, you need both light and dark.  The Knights of the Old Republic misunderstood the concept of balance.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Oct 10, 2017)

What is the context of this movie, what is even going on in the galaxy. I don't see an edge, or a sense of danger, it's a soulles drama with a fake war on the background.
Kylo is a pushover and Luke doesn't give a shit. Am I supposed to care about Rey with her plot shield? The only way is to turn her irremediably into the dark side and make her into a real villain since the story is missing one. Can Disney have a princess that kills people?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 10, 2017)

Mider T said:


> you need both light and dark.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Rukia (Oct 10, 2017)

Vault said:


> This looks bad  Disney has really fucked with this franchise.


Don't worry.  Tomb Raider and Venom are coming.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Jake CENA (Oct 10, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 4


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## Shark Skin (Oct 10, 2017)

Pocalypse said:


> Exciting trailer but too much misdirection in the trailer I think. Can't trust anything for shit. I'm 100% sure that Kylo and Rey aren't talking to each other in that end scene but to different people. It's done to fool us.


Yeah, you can see the lighting doesn't match up. 

I think the misdirection might be on of the bigger problem with the trailer. I don't think Snoke is talking about Kylo when he's talking about finding something special. Luke probably isn't talking about Kylo when he says that he's only seen this power once before. This trilogy is still all about Rey with a possible side of a Kylo redemption story.


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## Rukia (Oct 10, 2017)

Padme.


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## Darth (Oct 10, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I think it's more because she is realizing that to become the most powerful Jedi, you need both light and dark.  The Knights of the Old Republic misunderstood the concept of balance.


The EU has two prime examples to support and contradict your argument. 

On one hand we have EU Luke, who as a pure Light Side force user is considered the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy and then some. Sure, in Dark Empire Luke became Sidious's apprentice for like, a week, but his motive was to take down Sidious from the inside and he never really fell to the Dark Side considering it took Leia like 20 seconds to bring him back lol.

On the other hand we have Revan, a Jedi turned Sith turned back to Jedi with mastery and command over both the Light and Dark Sides of the force. Granted he was backstabbed and ultimately defeated by a Sith Lord but his power was still no joke. Who was more powerful? Where am I going with this? Does it matter? EU is no longer canon and I cri.

My point is the Dark Side doesn't need to exist in any real capacity for there to be balance in the force. For all intents and purposes Peace/Prosperity = Balance and in a galaxy with both light and dark side force users peace can never truly be a reality. Does Rey need to embrace the dark side to find balance? naaaaaaaaah

Cool trailer. Space battles look hype. I like Mark Hamill but I'm not too thrilled with what they've done to Luke's character. I hope they tie Snoke in with Sidous or Plagueis somehow.


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## Pocalypse (Oct 10, 2017)

Shark Skin said:


> Yeah, you can see the lighting doesn't match up.
> 
> I think the misdirection might be on of the bigger problem with the trailer. I don't think Snoke is talking about Kylo when he's talking about finding something special. Luke probably isn't talking about Kylo when he says that he's only seen this power once before. This trilogy is still all about Rey with a possible side of a Kylo redemption story.



Yeah I don't think Snoke is talking to Kylo either and Rey was likely talking to Luke when she said she needed help. It would be a wtf twist if she was talking to Snoke though lol Kylo returns with Luke and Rey goes with Snoke, but who knows at this point. They definitely played it smart with the trailer though.

Luke: This isn’t going to go the way you think

Breaking the 4th wall you think? I hope to be pleasantly surprised.


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## Rindaman (Oct 10, 2017)

I just find aside from the Luke, Rey, Kylo and Snoke stuff , the rest of it rings too hollow , they never spend any time developing the state of the galaxy in the previous film to give us an idea of what kind of pressure The First Order is putting upon everyone. They're just...already there in power, wrecking shit, despite us being told (never shown) that the New Republic is this fully functioning Universal government who are so sick of fightin they rather just chill on their home planets all day and get blown to smithereens.

Before someone comes out of  right field saying that's how it was for the Empire , never forget we're shown The Empire having a strict rule over the galaxy at that point in a New Hope, where Vader is even accusing Leia of Treason.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 10, 2017)

Darth said:


> My point is the Dark Side doesn't need to exist in any real capacity for there to be balance in the force. For all intents and purposes Peace/Prosperity = Balance and in a galaxy with both light and dark side force users peace can never truly be a reality.


flawed thinking Darf. 
Light cannot exist without Dark and vice versa; you need one to know the other. And if they can't exist without each other then they are in fact *one* thing rather than two separate things.
Also, peace and prosperity are nice, for a time...but nothing lasts forever. Peace eventually leads to stagnation and collapse. When that happens you get a time of strife which then leads to evolution.

the "problem" only exists in the perception of imbalance; this perception coming from extremists_aka Jedi/Sith. Neither light nor dark can ever hold sway forever.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Oct 10, 2017)

Rindaman said:


> I just find aside from the Luke, Rey, Kylo and Snoke stuff , the rest of it rings too hollow , they never spend any time developing the state of the galaxy in the previous film to give us an idea of what kind of pressure The First Order is putting upon everyone. They're just...already there in power, wrecking shit, despite us being told (never shown) that the New Republic is this fully functioning Universal government who are so sick of fightin they rather just chill on their home planets all day and get blown to smithereens.
> 
> Before someone comes out of  right field saying that's how it was for the Empire , never forget we're shown The Empire having a strict rule over the galaxy at that point in a New Hope, where Vader is even accusing Leia of Treason.


This series is spending way too much time focusing on "the force" aka Mary Sue juice, and doesn't seem to be focusing on the actual depth this series had.

It's more or less rehashing a shitty Anakin plot (but way way worse). It's not that interesting of a concept for me.

Like another trilogy of Jedi's learning to struggle with the forces of light and dark.

_Groundbreaking stuff here, amirit?

Oh no another MC with super force powers! BUT WITH A VAGINA!

Keeping up with the Skywalkers!

Amma change my entire POV cuz u killed mah mommy!
_


10/10 would come again

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Oct 10, 2017)

Saw the trailer.

Rey turning evil could be the best thing to happen to this franchise. Specially if Finn became a Jedi too, and Kylo eventually came back to the jedi side (which seems to be his story).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Oct 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> This series is spending way too much time focusing on "the force" aka Mary Sue juice, and doesn't seem to be focusing on the actual depth this series had.
> 
> It's more or less rehashing a shitty Anakin plot (but way way worse). It's not that interesting of a concept for me.
> 
> ...



The difference is that the prequel films were about Anakin turning evil. That was the end of it.

This time we have a jedi who may turn evil mid-story, another one who may turn good, and a guy with little to no force somehow turning into a jedi, and all of them clashing in the third film, together with Luke and Snoke.

I like this premise.


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## Jake CENA (Oct 10, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Padme.



Leia looks sure kill

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 10, 2017)

Rey isn't turning evil gaiz


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## Indra (Oct 10, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The difference is that the prequel films were about Anakin turning evil. That was the end of it.
> 
> This time we have a jedi who may turn evil mid-story, another one who may turn good, and a guy with little to no force somehow turning into a jedi, and all of them clashing in the third film, together with Luke and Snoke.
> 
> I like this premise.


99% sure Rey isn't turning evil. Trailer was giving up "you thought" vibes.

They had us thinking Finn was a force user 2 years agi. Not falling for their shit again lmao


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Oct 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> 99% sure Rey isn't turning evil. Trailer was giving up "you thought" vibes.
> 
> They had us thinking Finn was a force user 2 years agi. Not falling for their shit again lmao



Well I'm not sure it either will happen, just saying it would be great.

Regular path is that Rey says no, Finn is still the bumbling sidekick who holds a light saber 10 seconds/film, and Rey/Kylo join forces versus a CGI Snoke in Ep. 9.

Regular path sucks.

But the one I described has a good chance of happening and is awesome.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Oct 10, 2017)

Holy shit this thread has turned into Star Wars Hate Thread

Gonna stop posting before I get contaminated.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Oct 10, 2017)

NF hate contamination is a serious issue. I notice I tend to like One Piece chapters less when I start hanging out in OL too often. This forum can make literally anyone hate anything if they get too involved.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 10, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> NF hate contamination is a serious issue.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## ~VK~ (Oct 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> They had us thinking Finn was a force user 2 years agi. Not falling for their shit again lmao


from badass ex-child soldier slave who awakens the force and fights for and wins his freedom to a fucking incompetent lying token space janitor sidekick who fucks around and shit..

god i'm still so fucking salty. fuck this franchise

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 10, 2017)




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## Indra (Oct 10, 2017)

I don't mean to be a negative nancy, I just feel like the franchise is failing on us.

Though honestly I'm going to go in theaters with a un-biased opinion on all the characters. Hoping for the best, but not expecting anything less than average.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm a positive petey, I think this movie is going to be great.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## John Wick (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm a cautious carl and have no expectations.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 10, 2017)

Indifferent Igor here, and I don't think I've ever given less of a fuck about a movie I plan to see.

The plot, characters, and stylistic direction does nothing for me which thankfully means I won't leave disappointed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm a lascivious Lucy whose just going to masturbate in the theater.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 3


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## Utopia Realm (Oct 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> They had us thinking Finn was a force user 2 years agi. Not falling for their shit again lmao





~VK~ said:


> from badass ex-child soldier slave who awakens the force and fights for and wins his freedom to a fucking incompetent lying token space janitor sidekick who fucks around and shit..
> 
> god i'm still so fucking salty. fuck this franchise



Agreed with you two. Not a fan of Rey overpowering Kylo with her new powers and using Mind Trick liek she had been practicing it on the down low. Finn being the resident sidekick made me mad, but more meh as I watched the movie.

Think I have had enough teen angst from Rey and Kylo (More to come from this movie as the trailers shown.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kisame3rd14 (Oct 11, 2017)

Rey is not turning evil, the entire SJW movement would go bananas. Daisy Ridley and Emilia Clarke are prime example of what is wrong with Hollywood today.

Besides Ren and Snoke this iteration of the franchise is garbage.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Skaddix (Oct 11, 2017)

Ren is only good if they don't pussy out and make him redeemed and good again.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 11, 2017)

Give it a rest, guys. It's Star Wars, and we know you're all seeing the movie anyway. They could make Luke homosexual and Chewbacca transgender and you'd still go see it.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Megaharrison (Oct 11, 2017)

>In the 2nd movie, the Empire attacks the rebels hidden base built into the side of the mountain with a big open hanger. The rebels send out airspeeders to fight AT-AT's on a white open plain while the rest evacuate in half-dome ships. Meanwhile, the empire shows off an even BIGGER Star Destroyer as the emperor demands the antagonist, who is strong in the force, is brought before him.

Holy shit it's TFA-tier ripoff all over again.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Skaddix (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Give it a rest, guys. It's Star Wars, and we know you're all seeing the movie anyway. They could make Luke homosexual and Chewbacca transgender and you'd still go see it.



watch it sure pay for it.....no.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Pilaf (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Give it a rest, guys. It's Star Wars, and we know you're all seeing the movie anyway. They could make Luke homosexual and Chewbacca transgender and you'd still go see it.




Hamill has already claimed Luke is gay in the past. Which makes sense with the pounding Kylo is gonna give him.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Lewd 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 11, 2017)

Considering I've seen TFA 4 times now I'll be seeing this one with great expectations


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## Jake CENA (Oct 11, 2017)

the whole cast was a mistake

ridley
boyega
and bells palsy kylo ren


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## dr_shadow (Oct 11, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> and bells palsy kylo ren



Adam Driver was no doubt cast because he looks like he could be Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher's kid, _and_ he was conveniently born in the exact year Return of the Jedi came out; meaning he's the exact right age for the character.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 11, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 11, 2017)



Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Adam Driver was no doubt cast because he looks like he could be Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher's kid, _and_ he was conveniently born in the exact year Return of the Jedi came out; meaning he's the exact right age for the character.


He looks nothing like them though

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Jake CENA (Oct 11, 2017)

all the bells palsy hit him in the nose


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## dr_shadow (Oct 11, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> He looks nothing like them though



Young Harrison Ford vs Adam Driver

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Swarmy (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Young Harrison Ford vs Adam Driver


Aside from the mouth and the shape of the face there isn't much  Also what about Leia?


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## Rindaman (Oct 11, 2017)

Can't lie they do kinda look alike....Still what idiot thought making the only living Skywalker heir the main villain of this trilogy was a good idea? It was different with the Twins angle they had going in the EU or in  Vader's case the air of mystery surrounding him right up until the big reveal that he was Luke's father.

In TFA it was just  like "Hey, remember that one time you refused to let me pull out, well that shit went to the darkside, what we gon do now?".

So the evil villain who murdered Han in all reality will have to reform and come back to the Light just to keep this poisonous  bloodline going and just because why not it'll have to  be Rey who carries that devil baby. Three straight movies of the same brunette white girl surrounded by minorities who get  little to no development while the white hero saves the day the POC either gets blown up, shot dead or put into a coma. 


Fuck Kathleen Kennedy dude, bitch is cancer.  Her White  feminist excellence surrounded by POC sidekicks casting ass...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Mider T (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Young Harrison Ford vs Adam Driver


"Harrison Ford" looks nothing like Harrison Ford.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 11, 2017)

Harrison Ford looks like a whiter Blake Griffin.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pocalypse (Oct 11, 2017)

Adam Driver would be perfect for a young Snape if HP got a prequel.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Kisame3rd14 (Oct 11, 2017)

Drivers acting was on point, it's the writing that's failing him. Complete opposite of Ridley.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Oct 11, 2017)

Pocalypse said:


> Adam Driver would be perfect for a young Snape if HP got a prequel.


wow this is actually spot on.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Oct 11, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> Aside from the mouth and the shape of the face there isn't much  Also what about Leia?



Since the character is male, they were probably the most concerned with making him look like his father. If there's also a passing resemblance to the mother that's a bonus, but not what people will be mainly looking for.

That said there was a comparison of all three:


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## John Wick (Oct 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Give it a rest, guys. It's Star Wars, and we know you're all seeing the movie anyway. They could make Luke homosexual and Chewbacca transgender and you'd still go see it.


feminists would get triggered at the transgender fictional character having more body hair than wonder woman.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 11, 2017)

Kisame3rd14 said:


> Drivers acting was on point, it's the writing that's failing him. Complete opposite of Ridley.


Driver, Boyega and Isaac are the only actors in these movie with any sort of real range... (I've seen them showcase talent in other movies)

a pity Kasdan doesn't seem to be taking advantage of this with his scripts.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Oct 11, 2017)

I thought it looked great. I didn't care one way or the other about force awakens and never actually got through rogue one. I watched it for 15 minutes and couldn't handle the movie taking star wars so seriously. And that's coming from someone who loved Edwards godzilla movie. So I'm not a star wars guy. 

But this looks good, and mark hamill.


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 11, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> I thought it looked great. I didn't care one way or the other about force awakens and never actually got through rogue one. I watched it for 15 minutes and couldn't handle the movie taking star wars so seriously. And that's coming from someone who loved Edwards godzilla movie. So I'm not a star wars guy.
> 
> But this looks good, and mark hamill.


here ya go...all you need to see:


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## Suigetsu (Oct 11, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> the whole cast was a mistake
> 
> ridley
> boyega
> and bells palsy kylo ren


More like the whole project as a whole. It just feels like reclycled stuff but with Pokemon.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## reiatsuflow (Oct 11, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> here ya go...all you need to see:



Well shit, now I want to watch rogue one.


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## Pilaf (Oct 11, 2017)

My biggest fear is that nothing from this movie will match that scene of Vader slicing up scrubs in Rogue One.


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 11, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> My biggest fear is that nothing from this movie will match that scene of Vader slicing up scrubs in Rogue One.


Nothing will. Why did you think there would be? 

The main series is more...family friendly.


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## Shark Skin (Oct 11, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Well shit, now I want to watch rogue one.


But that's all you need to see as Raging Boner said When the most colorful/human character in the whole movie is a droid, you know you have problems. Everyone in the movie was so fucking dry. I liked Rogue One, but it was seriously flawed from a character development stand point.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)




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## Roman (Oct 12, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Since the character is male, they were probably the most concerned with making him look like his father. If there's also a passing resemblance to the mother that's a bonus, but not what people will be mainly looking for.
> 
> That said there was a comparison of all three:



Say what you will about Kylo, but I think Adam Driver delivered regardless of the character's quality. I really did enjoy his performance no matter what I think of Force Awakens.

As for the trailer, it looks pretty damn good, tho it raised the question of why Luke seems so scared of Rey's potential and if that is the real reason behind why he thinks Jedi should just go extinct. Just cuz a few people have so much potential for danger is no reason to end thousands of years' worth of a legacy. That and the question of why Kylo and Ray are somehow implied to have had more potential than Anakin who by default should have been potentially the most powerful Force user in history.

Either way, can't wait to see the movie.



mr_shadow said:


> Give it a rest, guys. It's Star Wars, and we know you're all seeing the movie anyway. They could make Luke homosexual and Chewbacca transgender and you'd still go see it.



Guilty as charged

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Driver, *Boyega* and Isaac are the only actors in these movie with any sort of real range... (I've seen them showcase talent in other movies)
> 
> a pity Kasdan doesn't seem to be taking advantage of this with his scripts.



have you seen the pacific rim 2 trailer? heard how lousy he delivered his speech?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> The main series is more...family friendly.


It's been said several times that this will be the darkest SW movie, I believe they don't count Rogue One because that's by far the most depressing and gritty SW movie so far


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> have you seen the pacific rim 2 trailer? heard how lousy he delivered his speech?


You really hate that guy, don't you

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 12, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> You really hate that guy, don't you



he's the new J.Lawrence


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> he's the new J.Lawrence


Meh a bit taller but I can see the resemblance


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## Jake CENA (Oct 12, 2017)

overrated, no talent hack

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 12, 2017)

Don't know where to say it, but Rey needs to get blacked by Finn.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Don't know where to say it, but Rey needs to get blacked by Finn.


Shhh she's Kylo's bitch  You can see it in her eyes when he first removed his mask

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 12, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> Shhh she's Kylo's bitch  You can see it in her eyes when he first removed his mask



How she gonna go and try to get the pipe from her own cousin.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 12, 2017)

intergalactic i*c*st is a thing

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> How she gonna go and try to get the pipe from her own cousin.


The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 12, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural.



I've got a bad feeling about this.


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## Mider T (Oct 12, 2017)

Swarmy said:


> The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural.


Which* some consider to be unnatural.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Swarmy (Oct 12, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Which* some consider to be unnatural.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mider T (Oct 12, 2017)

Nice posting of the theatrical cut.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Oct 12, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 3


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## Mider T (Oct 12, 2017)

100% Prooved


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## The World (Oct 13, 2017)

It all makes sense now.


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## Megaharrison (Oct 15, 2017)

Last Jedi Trailer played over Empire Strikes Back footage

rly makes me think

Reactions: Like 1


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## The World (Oct 15, 2017)

I actually liked this.

The video was so dense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Oct 15, 2017)

Megaharrison said:


> Last Jedi Trailer played over Empire Strikes Back footage
> 
> rly makes me think



Star Wars Episode VIII: The Empire Strikes Back Strikes Back.


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## Saishin (Oct 15, 2017)

The design of the new AT-AT is awful


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## Roman (Oct 16, 2017)

Saishin said:


> The design of the new AT-AT is awful



The fuck is up with its forelegs?


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 16, 2017)

Maybe it's to protect it from tripping?


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## Saishin (Oct 16, 2017)

Roman said:


> The fuck is up with its forelegs?


I guess they got inspiration from the gorilla


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Maybe it's to protect it from tripping?



Most likely.  If you look close in the trailer, you can see regular AT-AT alongside them, and these things dwarf the old AT-AT.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 16, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Oct 17, 2017)

Did they use CGI on Rey's face? I don't believe that's make up magic. She looks too smooth, young like 14 yrs old young and clean in the trailers, like she doesn't have any moles, freckles, pimples or anything.


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## dr_shadow (Oct 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Most likely.  If you look close in the trailer, you can see regular AT-AT alongside them, and these things dwarf the old AT-AT.



'cuz everything is bigger in the future.  "That means it's more advanced".

Isn't that right, Super Star Destroyer?
Isn't that right, Starkiller Base?

Isn't that right, computers?
Isn't that right, telephones?
Isn't that right, music players?


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 18, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> 'cuz everything is bigger in the future.  "That means it's more advanced".
> 
> Isn't that right, Super Star Destroyer?
> Isn't that right, Starkiller Base?
> ...



wait 'till you see the Supremacy; fucking ridiculous size


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## Indra (Oct 19, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Atlas (Oct 19, 2017)




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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 20, 2017)

Indra said:


>




the perfect and strong independant force-user Rey is untouchable to the lowly men, so they gotta make do with each other


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## The World (Oct 20, 2017)

star wars was a mistake

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Oct 20, 2017)

The World said:


> star wars was a mistake

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Roman (Oct 20, 2017)

The World said:


> the prequel trilogy was a mistake



ftfy


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## RAGING BONER (Oct 20, 2017)

Indra said:


>





Weiss said:


> the perfect and strong independant force-user Rey is untouchable to the lowly men, so they gotta make do with each other


oh ffs...why?


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## Pocalypse (Oct 20, 2017)

Indra said:


>


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 20, 2017)

I think he's just speaking hypothetically.


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## Jake CENA (Oct 22, 2017)

This movie and the new Super Mario Odessey game are the most non-sense work of fiction to date.


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## Mider T (Oct 22, 2017)

Roman said:


> ftfy


Prequel > original

Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 1 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Roman (Oct 22, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Prequel > original


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 26, 2017)




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## Jake CENA (Oct 26, 2017)

The Force Awakens was an insult, a huge mistake.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 30, 2017)




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## dr_shadow (Nov 1, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


>



I love that while the rest of the poster is in Japanese, the words STAR WARS are left in English.

They're banking on it being so familiar that even people who don't speak English will recognize the logo without explanation.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Nov 1, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> I love that while the rest of the poster is in Japanese, the words STAR WARS are left in English.
> 
> They're banking on it being so familiar that even people who don't speak English will recognize the logo without explanation.


I think the light sabers do the trick

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Indra (Nov 1, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Nov 1, 2017)

ah thanks I like this more not getting Kylo stuffed down my throat nearly as much


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## Indra (Nov 1, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> ah thanks I like this more not getting Kylo stuffed down my throat nearly as much


One movie later and Kylo is still hitting things


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## Skaddix (Nov 1, 2017)

Indra said:


> One movie later and Kylo is still hitting things



I have met toddlers more mature.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Indra (Nov 1, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I have met toddlers more mature.


I don't get how a character can force up the balls to kill their own dad, but still acts like a child.

There's not much consistency there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Nov 2, 2017)

Indra said:


> I think the light sabers do the trick



Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back had lightsabers too.

And Mark Hamill. And Carrie Fisher.


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## The World (Nov 2, 2017)

Indra said:


> I don't get how a character can force up the balls to kill their own dad, but still acts like a child.
> 
> There's not much consistency there.


It is if he's a narcissistic sociopath


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 2, 2017)

Kylo's one of the few reasons to watch this shit; guy is a walking comedy show.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 2, 2017)

I still say that it is completely inconsistent with Luke's characterization in the original trilogy for him to hide away from the troubles of the galaxy, as did Obi-Wan and Yoda; Luke is not the same as them; he was very much action-oriented and eager to help others, so it is very out-of-character for him to retreat as he did, and I hope that the story makes some attempt to explain that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 2, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still say that it is completely inconsistent with Luke's characterization in the original trilogy for him to hide away from the troubles of the galaxy, as did Obi-Wan and Yoda; Luke is not the same as them; he was very much action-oriented and eager to help others, so it is very out-of-character for him to retreat as he did, and I hope that the story makes some attempt to explain that.


it's been 30 years and his prize pupil turned psycho and burned everything he was working for to the ground.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 2, 2017)

will this make more or less then ep7 ?


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## dr_shadow (Nov 3, 2017)

Weiss said:


> will this make more or less then ep7 ?



Less.

There isn't a decade of built-up hype this time.

The inflation-adjusted domestic gross of the main series looks like this (millions of $):


> 1. A New Hope (1,274)
> 2. The Force Awakens (965)
> 3. The Phantom Menace (757)
> 
> ...


My interpretation is that:

A. People are always curious to see the first film of a new thrilogy because there's been a long anticipation before.

B. They're also excited to see the conclusion of the trilogy because the second part teases it to be epic (Vader is Luke's father, Clone Wars started).

C. They generally liked the original thrilogy better than the prequel trilogy.


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## Suigetsu (Nov 3, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still say that it is completely inconsistent with Luke's characterization in the original trilogy for him to hide away from the troubles of the galaxy, as did Obi-Wan and Yoda; Luke is not the same as them; he was very much action-oriented and eager to help others, so it is very out-of-character for him to retreat as he did, and I hope that the story makes some attempt to explain that.


This new look basically contradicts everything that he was in the OT, he would never abandon his friends just as he did not abandon his father. Yet this Disney starwars have completely shat on it in order to make their “muh original fanfiction”
You seriously intend to tell me that Khasdan wrote/supervised this shit?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 4, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> it's been 30 years and his prize pupil turned psycho and burned everything he was working for to the ground.



Yes, but the Luke from the original trilogy would have attempted to fix the problem, not run from it; he rescued his friends multiple times across the original trilogy and even redeemed his father when everyone else doubted that he could, so him retreating from the current situation is very inconsistent with his initial portrayal; it is not character development; the change in Luke's personality from _episode IV_ to _episode VI_ was charatcer development, but this new change is simply poor writing.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1 | Disagree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 4, 2017)

I'm not defending this shit. 
I'm just saying that 30 years of war and tragedy will change a man.

the time you spent with Luke between New Hope and RotJ was 5 years when he was still a kid.


And who says he's hiding? He left a map. Perhaps he's studying space magic to better understand it


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## ~Gesy~ (Nov 4, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> I'm not defending this shit.
> I'm just saying that 30 years of war and tragedy will change a man.
> 
> the time you spent with Luke between New Hope and RotJ was 5 years when he was still a kid.
> ...


Was about to make a similar post. Luke was just an inexperienced kid who hung soley on ideals when we last saw him. Now he's older, wiser and no stranger to hardship and betrayal ; He SHOULD BE a different character given what he's been through.

But I doubt a robot would ever have an understanding of human growth.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Nov 4, 2017)

Speaking of Luke. I'm glad it looks like he was taken out of commission when his Jedi school was sacked instead of taking an L to Kylo or Snoke .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## "Shion" (Nov 4, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I still say that it is completely inconsistent with Luke's characterization in the original trilogy for him to hide away from the troubles of the galaxy, as did Obi-Wan and Yoda; Luke is not the same as them; he was very much action-oriented and eager to help others, so it is very out-of-character for him to retreat as he did, and I hope that the story makes some attempt to explain that.



It wasn't for *only* those reasons, though, am I right? I mean ol dude's padawans got killed off and he felt responsible for the tragedy.

Seems hard enough!

EDIT: 

And this movie looks hella dope.


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## Rukia (Nov 4, 2017)

I'm buying the idea that Rey has the most potential ever.  For darkness and light; she is the ultimate prize.


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## Rukia (Nov 4, 2017)

Darth Plagueis!


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 5, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Was about to make a similar post. Luke was just an inexperienced kid who hung soley on ideals when we last saw him. Now he's older, wiser and no stranger to hardship and betrayal ; He SHOULD BE a different character given what he's been through.



Yes, of course he would be different, but he saw what happened when Obi-Wan and Yoda retreated from the events of the Galaxy, so it does not make sense that he would repeat their mistake. In the original expanded universe, when Jacen Solo turned evil, Luke did not do into hiding, and Kylo Ren's turn to evil is but a pale imitation of Jacen Solo's fall, so it strains credibility that Luke would be so disheartened by something such as that.



Rukia said:


> Darth Plagueis!



I still do not want Snoke to be Plagueis, because that would undermine Palpatine as the greatest villain in this franchise and would also raise the question of where Plagueis has been since his supposed death.

Also, on that subject, Kylo Ren is a very strong admirer of Darth Vader, but he fails to properly embody the traits that made Vader such an iconic villain, both in the story and in actuality, so I would like to see a character who is an ardent fan of Palpatine, who imitates him in appearance and mannerisms, but also fails to properly understand what made him such an amazing character.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 6, 2017)

Star Wars: TFA was a mistake

Reactions: Like 1


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## Detective (Nov 6, 2017)

Seriously it was. They burned a lot of bridges for this bullshit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 6, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Star Wars: TFA was a mistake



I will not go that far, but it was very underwhelming after all the hype that it had.



Detective said:


> Seriously it was. They burned a lot of bridges for this bullshit.



I definitely agree; the original expanded universe had some amazing stories that would have been awesome as movies, but it is now likely that they shall never been adapted. I only hope that Mara Jade is somehow incorporated into the new continuity, given her immense popularity, especially since Thrawn was recently re-canonized.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 6, 2017)

Rey being this messiah jedia savior of the universe is pure bullshit.

She grew up in a junkyard doing nothing but scavenging scraps and shit and when she got her hands on a lightsaber for the first time, she’s suddenly a top tier fighter and force user??? 

Finn is a joke character that should have died. He doesn’t have a purpose at all.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Zef (Nov 7, 2017)

They should just kill Finn off, and stop acting like he has any significance to the plot tbh.

Poe is already with the resistance so idk why they have Finn doing resistance shit too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Nov 7, 2017)

Finn was there for the bait and switch but now they are stuck with him because they can kill the Black Guy without looking racist as fuck but what do you expect when put a Bitch with KKK as her initials in charge.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 7, 2017)

Zef said:


> They should just kill Finn off, and stop acting like he has any significance to the plot tbh.
> 
> Poe is already with the resistance so idk why they have Finn doing resistance shit too.





Skaddix said:


> Finn was there for the bait and switch but now they are stuck with him because they can kill the Black Guy without looking racist as fuck but what do you expect when put a Bitch with KKK as her initials in charge.


Lando was the smoothest son of a bitch in Star Wars_*35 years ago*. 
He ran a goddamned city in the clouds; was a hustler and a ladies man who also blew up the 2nd Death Star.

Finn? he's a cowardly space janitor 

but now Lando is gonna be played by Donald Glover in Solo 

nothing against DG, kid is talented...but he's a fucking nerd who doesn't have an ounce of the charisma that Billy D has.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Nov 7, 2017)

Oh


RAGING BONER said:


> Lando was the smoothest son of a bitch in Star Wars_*35 years ago*.
> He ran a goddamned city in the clouds; was a hustler and a ladies man who also blew up the 2nd Death Star.
> 
> Finn? he's a cowardly space janitor
> ...



I am sure KKK will ruin Lando to prop up The Mother of Dragons in Han Solo...bitch wont even let Billy Dee get a fucking cameo in Star Wars despite the new trilogy having no plans whatsoever.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 7, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Rey being this messiah jedia savior of the universe is pure bullshit.
> 
> *She grew up in a junkyard doing nothing but scavenging scraps and shit and when she got her hands on a lightsaber for the first time, she’s suddenly a top tier fighter and force user??? *
> 
> Finn is a joke character that should have died. He doesn’t have a purpose at all.



The power of plot is a hell of a powerup   It was such bullshit that she could go toe to toe with Kylo who trained for years.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 7, 2017)

Why can't they just retcon and let Samuel L Jackson's character live and be the main character ffs?

Finn is a useless space janitor. Don't tell me he's gonna be a jedi too in this movie

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Nov 7, 2017)

What no that make the white characters especially Rey shine less.


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## Jake CENA (Nov 7, 2017)

But Rey was the biggest mistake in the movie. Why can't she just die and make Kylo do a face turn and be the last jedi?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 7, 2017)

like ive said:

having Rey be possessed by Darf Snokeus (ala essence transfer) and becoming the biggest bad that ever badded would be the only thing that would catch my attention.

Problem is: I don't think Ridley has the acting chops to pull it off.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 7, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> like ive said:
> 
> having Rey be possessed by Darf Snokeus (ala essence transfer) and becoming the biggest bad that ever badded would be the only thing that would catch my attention.
> 
> Problem is: I don't think Ridley has the acting chops to pull it off.



she's a woman you can't expect her to give an award nominating performance even with CGI. it's going to be cringeworthy. a big waste of time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Amol (Nov 8, 2017)

A woman can't give award winning performance ladies and gentleman!
It has been long time since I saw such open sexist pig.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Vault (Nov 8, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> she's a woman you can't expect her to give an award nominating performance even with CGI. it's going to be cringeworthy. a big waste of time.



Holy shit  hahahaha

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Nov 8, 2017)

Amol said:


> A woman can't give award winning performance ladies and gentleman!
> It has been long time since I saw such open sexist pig.


Don't be too hard on him..I think He's mentally ill..

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 8, 2017)

Amol said:


> A woman can't give award winning performance ladies and gentleman!
> It has been long time since I saw such open sexist pig.



Sexist? I'm talking about Rey and her performance. Where in my post suggested that I was talking about all women in general?

Tell me, has Daisy Ridley been nominated in the Oscars? No? Then shut up and eat more biryani.


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## Vault (Nov 8, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> she's a woman you can't expect her to give an award nominating performance.





Jake CENA said:


> Where in my post suggested that I was talking about all women in general?



Dude do you even English? Shits clear in black and white

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Amol (Nov 8, 2017)

And then he tries to be a racist 
Oh the tragedy here


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## Jake CENA (Nov 8, 2017)

Vault said:


> Dude do you even English? Shits clear in black and white



I said "SHE", if you think I was talking about all women, then that's your problem not mine. You all are just overreacting and being over sensitive. As if you people round here don't talk trash about women. You do it all the time here in the KT.


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## Vault (Nov 8, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> I said "SHE", if you think I was talking about all women, then that's your problem not mine. You all are just overreacting and being over sensitive. As if you people round here don't talk trash about women. You do it all the time here in the KT.



Why are you being so sensitive and defensive now. It's your English which failed. You could have easily said no i didnt mean it that way, I just meant Ridley specifically. But no you doubled down by saying show me where you claimed all women basically. Which i showed you but go 'head man

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 8, 2017)

Lol, just stop. I'm not taking your bait. 

Ridley was the subject and her Rey character sucks and needs to be killed by Kylo


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## Vault (Nov 8, 2017)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Pocalypse (Nov 8, 2017)

Nah you're wrong about this Jake Cena.

You started by saying "she's a _*woman*_ you can't expect her to give an award nominating performance".

Which implies women can't give award winning performances

Reactions: Winner 1


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## BlazingInferno (Nov 8, 2017)

Vault said:


> Why are you being so sensitive and defensive now. It's your English which failed. You could have easily said no i didnt mean it that way, I just meant Ridley specifically. But no you doubled down by saying show me where you claimed all women basically. Which i showed you but go 'head man



Let’s not forget that comment he made about Hela being a shit villain because she’s female

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gunners (Nov 8, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Lol, just stop. I'm not taking your bait.
> 
> Ridley was the subject and her Rey character sucks and needs to be killed by Kylo





Vault said:


>

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 8, 2017)

BlazingInferno said:


> Let’s not forget that comment he made about Hela being a shit villain because she’s female



When did i made that comment?


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## Suigetsu (Nov 9, 2017)

Gunners said:


>


Fucking Gonads, Baiting again I see!


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## BlazingInferno (Nov 9, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> When did i made that comment?



Good lord, you’re an idiot.



Jake CENA said:


> i guarantee you guys, coming from a Marvel fan, that this shit is going to be garbage.
> 
> >main villain is female
> >thor movie but will center around hulk
> >no thanos

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 10, 2017)

so??????? what now?


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## NW (Nov 10, 2017)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 10, 2017)

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/09/disney-new-star-wars-trilogy-live-action-tv-series
 

*Disney reveals plan for new Star Wars trilogy and live-action TV series *
CEO Bob Iger has announced that The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson will create a new set of films while a small-screen iteration is expected by 2019

Disney has announced plans for a new Star Wars trilogy and TV series in a company call to discuss annual earnings.

The company’s CEO, Bob Iger, revealed that the writer-director Rian Johnson will tackle the new films, which will feature completely new characters in “a corner of the galaxy that Star Wars lore has never before explored”.

Johnson has already directed this December’s next instalment, . His previous credits include Brick and Looper.

“We all loved working with Rian on The Last Jedi,” said Kathleen Kennedy, the Lucasfilm president. “He’s a creative force, and watching him craft The Last Jedi from start to finish was one of the great joys of my career. Rian will do amazing things with the blank canvas of this new trilogy.”

It was also announced that a live-action Star Wars TV series is on the way, to air on Disney’s streaming service by the end of 2019. The most recent series to take place in the universe was 2014’s animated Star Wars: Rebels, which began its fourth season last month.


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## Suigetsu (Nov 10, 2017)

Rey looks and acts like a xenomorph. A true acting feat, not anyone can give you that alien feeling.

I feel like Riddley Scott missed a casting opportunity there.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1


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## NW (Nov 10, 2017)

Live action SW TV series? Sounds great. I hate that they keep making these canon shows with different artstyle/format. Really inconsistent.

Another new trilogy, on the other hand...


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## NW (Nov 10, 2017)

Live action SW TV series? Sounds great. I hate that they keep making these canon shows with different artstyle/format. Really inconsistent.

Another new trilogy, on the other hand...


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 10, 2017)

at this point anything that gets us away from this Skywalker nonsense...

Reactions: Winner 1


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## dr_shadow (Nov 11, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Rey looks and acts like a xenomorph. A true acting feat, not anyone can give you that alien feeling.
> 
> I feel like Riddley Scott missed a casting opportunity there.



It's gonna be a real-time chronicle of Luke's life as a farmboy on Tatooine.

One hour of television covers one day in-universe. For all 20-odd years that he's there.

The audience never properly understood his frustration or motivations in A New Hope, but now we finally get to experience everything with him. Get ready to pick up some power converters!


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## Suigetsu (Nov 11, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> It's gonna be a real-time chronicle of Luke's life as a farmboy on Tatooine.
> 
> One hour of television covers one day in-universe. For all 20-odd years that he's there.
> 
> The audience never properly understood his frustration or motivations in A New Hope, but now we finally get to experience everything with him. Get ready to pick up some power converters!


I dont want to because disney’s vision sucks. Its gonna be a freaking nightmare.


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## DemonDragonJ (Nov 11, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> at this point anything that gets us away from this Skywalker nonsense...



What do you mean by that? The Skywalkers were the central characters for all six of the original films, so I fail to see why it would be any different for future films.


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## Garcher (Nov 11, 2017)

the new movies are all garbage

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rukia (Nov 11, 2017)

Plagueis should throw Kylo away.  Rey is a cut above.  He should be in awe of her power tbh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rukia (Nov 11, 2017)

GARcher said:


> the new movies are all garbage


That first one was.

I think Rogue One was excellent.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Nov 11, 2017)

GARcher said:


> the new movies are all garbage



Humans are the dumbest animals.

Jesus wasn't white.

If only Lenin had lived.


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## Indra (Nov 11, 2017)

JOHN BOYEGA said:
			
		

> Would I like to be a Jedi? I think it would be more interesting if they had more than one person be a Jedi – but I think that that is the one of the unspoken laws of Star Wars. They only have one who has to go away and train[.]
> 
> We know that the one person who’ll train as a Jedi is going to be Rey, so dismissing the multiple Jedi theory does rather put a lid on that idea. That’s not to say Finn can’t rise to be an equally interesting kind of hero in Last Jedi.
> 
> ...



Irrelevant fodder confirmed

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 12, 2017)

_"so you would like to explore getting kicked in the face...into a sarlacc pit? ok, yeah, we can arrange that for you._" ~ K.Kenney


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 12, 2017)

explore the inns and outs of being a galactic janitor

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> explore the inns and outs of being a galactic janitor


this cat talking about wanting to be like Boba Fett...

but you know Phasma gonna put him back in the broom closet


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## Zef (Nov 13, 2017)

smh. They treat Finn like this then expect me to be interested in another trilogy?

Only way I'll watch anything more SW related is if it doesn't focus on Skywalkers'. Otherwise fuck it.


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## dr_shadow (Nov 13, 2017)

Zef said:


> smh. They treat Finn like this then expect me to be interested in another trilogy?
> 
> Only way I'll watch anything more SW related is if it doesn't focus on Skywalkers'. Otherwise fuck it.



They just said it's not gonna be about the Skywalkers. 

But before you get your hopes up: it's probably not gonna be a direct adaptation of any Expanded Universe work either. That's because the EU is only familiar to die-hard Star Wars fans, and Disney isn't making these movies only for those. They will have to be about something that's been at least lightly touched on in the main series so even someone who hasn't read all the dozens of novels can follow what's going on.

So don't expect a Mara Jade or Darth Revan movie. But maybe you'll get a Boba Fett movie in which the names Mara Jade and Darth Revan are mentioned as easter eggs, without them having any critical plot relevance.


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 13, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> But before you get your hopes up: it's probably not gonna be a direct adaptation of any Expanded Universe work either. That's because the EU is only familiar to die-hard Star Wars fans, and Disney isn't making these movies only for those. They will have to be about something that's been at least lightly touched on in the main series so even someone who hasn't read all the dozens of novels can follow what's going on.
> 
> So don't expect a Mara Jade or Darth Revan movie. But maybe you'll get a Boba Fett movie in which the names Mara Jade and Darth Revan are mentioned as easter eggs, without them having any critical plot relevance.


Kotor's 2nd act twist alone is worthy of a cinematic adaptation. Shit, only Vader's reveal to Luke in Empire compares...

They can change the names, dates and locations if they want to keep things under wraps and throw off fans.


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## Skaddix (Nov 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> _"so you would like to explore getting kicked in the face...into a sarlacc pit? ok, yeah, we can arrange that for you._" ~ K.Kenney



K.K.Kenney....yeah but we should celebrate the diversity...SMFH. Call me when when the white characters aren't the only ones with the Force Powers and Special Destinies until then fuckoff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Nov 14, 2017)

Zef said:


> smh. They treat Finn like this then expect me to be interested in another trilogy?
> 
> Only way I'll watch anything more SW related is if it doesn't focus on Skywalkers'. Otherwise fuck it.


Watching this for Finn is a joke tbh. He was a great concept, but they failed miserably. Turned him into a janitor instead of an actual solider.

Are never going to expand on his background, and his struggles via being brainwashed and taken from his home at a young age. Even possibly seeing his family "killed" in regards to his capture (speculation on my part).

Then there's the countless other hype propaganda used to make him look like a force user when it's Keeping up With the Skywalkers once again.

The best we'll get from Finn is being a soft cushion for landing spontaneous laser blasts and ship battles, or the occasional random ass 1v1 on foot.

He's the equivalent of Kakashi or Sakura in Naruto

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Nov 14, 2017)

Eh I take Kakashi even Sakura had two fights where she shined a bit (Sasori and Kaguya)....Finn dont even have one yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zef (Nov 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Watching this for Finn is a joke tbh. *He was a great concept, but they failed miserably. Turned him into a janitor instead of an actual solider.
> 
> Are never going to expand on his background, and his struggles via being brainwashed and taken from his home at a young age. Even possibly seeing his family "killed" in regards to his capture (speculation on my part).
> 
> ...


Well I would have watched this for Kylo if they hadn't made him look like a bitch in TFA.

He comes off as a Vadar fanboy. I just can't take him seriously, especially since they're hinting at a possible redemption plot involving him.

Besides Finn and Kylo who's left? Poe? No thanks. He's only slightly more useful then Finn.

I guess I'll just get behind Rey. I honestly never disliked her; I was just indifferent to her plot.


But man, I long for the day a POC can play a major leading role in a Sci-fi/Space Opera without getting the bait & switch treatment Finn did.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Indra (Nov 14, 2017)

Zef said:


> Well I would have watched this for Kylo if they hadn't made him look like a bitch in TFA.
> 
> 
> He comes off as a Vadar fanboy. I just can't take him seriously, especially since they're hinting at a possible redemption plot involving him.


I wanted to get behind the Kylo hype but his character is not complex/deep/interesting as people want to force. 

He's simply just a brat who didn't get his parents love, and Snoke uses that against him. Despite never getting physically or mentally abused, ever. He decides that the dark side is the way to go, and that he needs to continue Vader's legacy. This all stemming from the fact that he has major family issues. Sounds like a bad fan fiction right?

Worse of all he kills his dad. I can understand Kylo if he detested his parents for not being there, but that's not excuse for killing one. Definitely not a good excuse to be a serial killer either.

Kylo would of been a proper character if he was just naturally villainous and corrupted from day one. Rather than them playing at the tightrope of him being good, but turning evil later for contrived reasons. Instead his angst stems from his lack of parental love, and that he fights with the good and bad inside of him. It's hard to take a character seriously when their inner turmoils lies between breaking things and yelling at his lower command. He's a giant fail.




Zef said:


> Besides Finn and Kylo who's left? Poe? No thanks. He's only slightly more useful then Finn.


Every-time Poe i on screen 




Zef said:


> I guess I'll just get behind Rey. I honestly never disliked her; I was just indifferent to her plot.


I don't necessarily hate Rey, but she's not just that compelling. Her 'being good at almost everything' trait isn't really helping the case either.

It's hard to support her when she doesn't have any diminishing qualities. Still, I'll wait to see what this film has to offer in her case. Since she's more of a mystery than Kylo, Finn, and Poe.





Zef said:


> But man, I long for the day a POC can play a major leading role in a Sci-fi/Space Opera without getting the bait & switch treatment Finn did.


All I want is a lead character who is a Force user, who isn't a Skywalker. Is that so much to ask?

And screw that upcoming Han Solo movie


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 14, 2017)

Kylo is my boi

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Indra (Nov 14, 2017)

I feel like there's nothing interesting about Kylo except he's a male that other males can self insert 

It doesn't help the case that he stems from the most popular lineage in the verse. Mehhh


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## Skaddix (Nov 14, 2017)

Well if he wasnt "attractive" and white he wouldnt be getting a Redemption Plot and RJ wouldnt be telling us we should empathize with him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Nov 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Well if he wasnt "attractive" and white he wouldnt be getting a Redemption Plot and RJ wouldnt be telling us we should empathize with him


I feel the same way. 

+ Skywalker too


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## Zef (Nov 14, 2017)

I don't see how Kylo can realistically be redeemed tbh.

He basically joined the dark side for the lulz, and killed his own father(and maybe mother in this film?). 

If they make him good the writing for it would have to be legendary for it to not look like bullshit.


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 14, 2017)

Vader feasted on baby guts on his first day as Sith...

by comparison Kylo did nothing wrong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Nov 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Vader feasted on baby guts on his first day as Sith...
> 
> by comparison Kylo did nothing wrong.



The younglings? Yeah but Vader was a former Slave who snapped after his mother got killed by aliens.....Kylo was a spoiled rich kid who turned because  he is a Vader Fanboy.


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## The World (Nov 14, 2017)

Vader was only redeemed because he sacrificed his life.

Anything less would be

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 14, 2017)




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## Abcdjdj1234 (Nov 15, 2017)

Zef said:


> I don't see how Kylo can realistically be redeemed tbh.
> 
> He basically joined the dark side for the lulz, and killed his own father(and maybe mother in this film?).
> 
> If they make him good the writing for it would have to be legendary for it to not look like bullshit.


He is coolest guy


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## ~Gesy~ (Nov 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> The younglings? Yeah but Vader was a former Slave who snapped after his mother got killed by aliens.....Kylo was a spoiled rich kid who turned because  he is a Vader Fanboy.


That's not a good excuse for having the blood of millions on your hands lol

I agree with RB. If you believe Vader was "redeemed", Kylo should be a walk in the park.


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## John Wick (Nov 15, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> It's gonna be a real-time chronicle of Luke's life as a farmboy on Tatooine.
> 
> One hour of television covers one day in-universe. For all 20-odd years that he's there.
> 
> The audience never properly understood his frustration or motivations in A New Hope, but now we finally get to experience everything with him. Get ready to pick up some power converters!


So like 24 farmer version

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Nov 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> So like 24 farmer version


I just pictured 4 sundials appearing on screen.


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## John Wick (Nov 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I just pictured 4 sundials appearing on screen.


I pictured lots of i*c*st we all know how much luke likes i*c*st, more so than jon snow.


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## dr_shadow (Nov 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> So like 24 farmer version



Will he manage to get those droids to the south range on time?


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## John Wick (Nov 15, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Will he manage to get those droids to the south range on time?


Next week can he find a spare power couple for his t-16

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 15, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Nov 15, 2017)

Rey needs a better hairdo. 

Not feeling the mullet.


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## Indra (Nov 15, 2017)

Luke. Fuck the new gen

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 16, 2017)

We need divine intervention and let this franchise die a quick death. All the games that are planned to be developed in the future needs to get cancelled too.

Fuck star wars. Fuck finn. And fuck that bitch Rey.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Nov 16, 2017)



Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gilgamesh (Nov 16, 2017)

Indra said:


> Luke. Fuck the new gen


Luke ain't gonna do shit

That would take the spotlight and glory away from Rey and we can't have that can we?


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## Indra (Nov 16, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Luke ain't gonna do shit
> 
> That would take the spotlight and glory away from Rey and we can't have that can we?


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## Jake CENA (Nov 16, 2017)

Luke will punch himself in the face and pluck out his eyes to blind himself of this stupid garbage


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## Skaddix (Nov 16, 2017)

All Glory to Rey and Kylo When Rey Isn't Around.


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## Swarmy (Nov 16, 2017)

As long as there's a long and flashy lightsaber fight we're good


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## Mider T (Nov 18, 2017)




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## Vault (Nov 19, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Vader feasted on baby guts on his first day as Sith...
> 
> by comparison Kylo did nothing wrong.


  

Which makes how he initially turned to the dark side the more contrived. There was no intricate mind tricks by Palpatine whatsoever to turn him. Just "lulz that pussy you got on the side is gonna die unless you join the darkside so you get additional powers which might save her"

Anakin was all in. Didnt even hesitate to murder all those kids


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## John Wick (Nov 19, 2017)

Vault said:


> Which makes how he initially turned to the dark side the more contrived. There was no intricate mind tricks by Palpatine whatsoever to turn him. Just "lulz that pussy you got on the side is gonna die unless you join the darkside so you get additional powers which might save her"
> 
> Anakin was all in. Didnt even hesitate to murder all those kids


he got practice on the sand people babies second time round he was a seasoned baby killing vet.


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## Skaddix (Nov 23, 2017)

Vault said:


> Which makes how he initially turned to the dark side the more contrived. There was no intricate mind tricks by Palpatine whatsoever to turn him. Just "lulz that pussy you got on the side is gonna die unless you join the darkside so you get additional powers which might save her"
> 
> Anakin was all in. Didnt even hesitate to murder all those kids



To be fair I think its more his mother dying that tipped him right into Palps hands...you see you mother died cause you didnt have awesome Dark Side Powers. You really want chance it with the Baby Momma


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## Indra (Nov 28, 2017)

Anakin's descent into the dark side wasn't that shocking, honestly. I mean they already told us from day one that he would of been a horrible Jedi, because of his emotional ties to people. And he never really understood that.

Padme dying was just a glorified version of Anakin losing his mom. For that I can sympathize.... but at the same time, for someone who they worried about based on the lack of trust. Not to mention the fact that he had a close relationship with the Chancellor (plus I think everyone knew he was friendly with Padme at least right?). You would think somebody would of been making sure he was okay. I find it hard to believe that Obi Wan didn't suspect that Anakin was fooling around behind his back, considering the nature of their relationship. 

Anakin's betrayal is just a giant mess of the Jedi Order not doing enough for him, and Anakin being too emotionally attached to people.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 28, 2017)

Rey actually being cute ?

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 28, 2017)

she's too thin for my latin blood to get hot over.

she's 'pretty' in the way i find magazine models pretty_in a non-sexual way.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Jake CENA (Nov 28, 2017)

PHOTOSHOPPED

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Nov 28, 2017)

I don't mean to objectify her, but if she had a better body, she would be a dime.

She's pretty average. I can find girls that look like her (or better) around campus.

OG Natalie Portman, now that was dime.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mider T (Nov 28, 2017)

Yeah she's skin and bones, cute face though.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 29, 2017)




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## The World (Nov 29, 2017)

she looks good in that second pic

but holy forehead in that first one

she only cute when you look at her at certain angles

like a fat chick


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## Atlas (Nov 29, 2017)

The World said:


> she looks good in that second pic
> 
> but holy forehead in that first one
> 
> ...



The Joe Dirt hairstyle certainly isn't doing her any favors.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Nov 30, 2017)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/daisy-ridley-says-she-apos-200300755.html


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## Suigetsu (Nov 30, 2017)

This disney cast is so embarrasing >__<

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 1, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Dec 1, 2017)

....I cant even....RJ is a genius they tell us and this is the BS we get....SMFH


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 1, 2017)




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## Jake CENA (Dec 4, 2017)

Disney is giving away free cancer


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 6, 2017)




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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 7, 2017)

should I give Mouse money for this, guys ?


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## Skaddix (Dec 7, 2017)

Weiss said:


> should I give Mouse money for this, guys ?



Well check reddit ... the Visual Dictionary Dropped maybe it will help you make the choice.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 7, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Dec 7, 2017)

Weiss said:


>



Yes that is what I was talking about...there is also a new tvspot showing Rey using Kylo's Lightsaber against Snokes Guard in his Throne Room....


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 7, 2017)

maybe my theory about Darf Snokeus taking Rey's body is true after all


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 7, 2017)

Weiss said:


> old white male forcing himself into a young woman ?


very trendy right now


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 7, 2017)

Snoke Waldstein


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 7, 2017)

Rey is gonna be stronger than Disney Luke ever was, isnt she ?


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## John Wick (Dec 7, 2017)

Dis gunna be gud tickets booked for xmas eve for me and the fam imax and in the gallery so it'll be in complete luxury.


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## Skaddix (Dec 7, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Rey is gonna be stronger than Disney Luke ever was, isnt she ?



Of course Luke will be a bitch...Kylo will cross another one off his kill list.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 7, 2017)

Luke isn't a bitch.  Snoke is for starting battles just to keep him from getting involved. 

I'm sure Luke is legit (hopefully).


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## Indra (Dec 7, 2017)

I saw a movie spot where 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey used Kylo's light saber




Dont click spoiler


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## Mider T (Dec 8, 2017)

One week!


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## Rukia (Dec 8, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Of course Luke will be a bitch...Kylo will cross another one off his kill list.


That’s fine.  All Rey needs is a little training and she will be the most powerful force wielder in the galaxy.  I’m in awe of her grasp of the force.


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## Mider T (Dec 8, 2017)

I think Admiral Ackbar is going to die.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 8, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Rey is gonna be stronger than Disney Luke ever was, isnt she ?


The salt that will generate


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 8, 2017)

Honestly, all debates about TFA and Rey have killed any legitimate enjoyment I will get from TLJ. I'm just gonna watch it to see how my reaction compares to that of the internet and it will be glorious if Kylo is murked by Rey again, this time in a fair battle, alongside Snoke to boot. The amount of backlash that will cause will overshadow the controversy surrounding Battlefront II. 

Rey may not be a good character, but just for all the amount of salt and tears she generates, I salute her


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 8, 2017)



Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 8, 2017)

looks better than the live action version

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Be That As It May....Who Has Got A Reliable Source Of Star Wars Spoilers For The Big Show Tonight? 

I need to know if I should bother going to watch this or just wait for a pirated copy.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 9, 2017)

what Adam Driver said about these movies being dumbed down in favor of spectacle is true.

we coulda had a Kreia; instead we got a Snoke.

we coulda had a Revan; instead we got a Rey.

_Hollywood: catering to the lowest common denominator since the 60's_...

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

@RAGING BONER I agree in a sense but that is not relevant the idea was to cash in on nostalgia from the OT which is fine I understand the need to reintroduce star wars. Jumping to Old Republic would be weird. The problem with picking up after the OT was execution and Kylo is part of problem a Darth Vader Groupie....


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## Zef (Dec 9, 2017)

So apparently Finn....


*Spoiler*: __ 



 gets electrocuted by Rose....

Reactions: Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 9, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> @RAGING BONER I agree in a sense but that is not relevant the idea was to cash in on nostalgia from the OT which is fine I understand the need to reintroduce star wars. Jumping to Old Republic would be weird. The problem with picking up after the OT was execution and Kylo is part of problem a Darth Vader Groupie....


don't get me wrong, i'm not naive enough to ever think they'd do an old republic movie.

But instead of a 'Palpatine cut and paste', who even has the same damn catch phrase, we could've had a far more complex,nuanced and interesting villain. (ala Kreia/Traya)

...instead of a bland protag who is being taught to balance light and dark we coulda had a former young Jedi who fell to the dark only to truly redeem themselves and use both aspects of the force. (like Revan)

shit, i know they're not gonna use any old republic characters...but when 15 year old vidya has far better writing and characters than your current movies we got problems.


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Oh indeed some nostalgia fine but we didnt need to copy ANH.


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## MCTDread (Dec 9, 2017)

Can’t wait to see how this movie turns out  aside from the new trilogy and Solo I’m curious what other characters they’ll focus on.


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Anyone got a red carpet link?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 9, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Anyone got a red carpet link?

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Thank you Best Mod. I can always count on you.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Son Of Man (Dec 9, 2017)

Red carpet area looks sweet


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Set your clocks people spoilers should hit by midnight East Coast.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Rukia (Dec 9, 2017)

Just announce Rey’s power level already.  That’s all I care about.


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## Skaddix (Dec 9, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Just announce Rey’s power level already.  That’s all I care about.



Over 9000 Midichlorians


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## Indra (Dec 9, 2017)

Let's go


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

The embargo should be lifted on Monday I guess.


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> The embargo should be lifted on Monday I guess.



Yeah but the spoilers should be coming soon.,


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

They are. I won't get spoiled though nor I will post any.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

Ayyyyyyyyy


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




----------



## Atlas (Dec 10, 2017)

Ayyyyyyyyy

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




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## Atlas (Dec 10, 2017)

Rogue One is better? Guess this movie is shit.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tenma (Dec 10, 2017)

all these shills

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Yeah lets just get to the spoilers and be done with it

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

"Best Star Wars movie ever"

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

James Mangold (The Wolverine, Logan) as well:


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

Textless version of this poster, it looks cool.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

Ok, I actually got word from a trusted source that this movie is good!


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Ok, I actually got word from a trusted source that this movie is good!



Did the source tell you anything relevant we need spoilers here...


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

No, sorry Skaddix, I'm not looking for spoilers. It should pop up soon though.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

From what I'm vaguely told tho. Luke delivers in some way. And something very shocking happens...

Maybe Snoke take over Kylo's body? Maybe Rey's lineage is revealed? Either way this is gonna be a long week.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Mider T (Dec 10, 2017)

Bii Bii Eiito


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> From what I'm vaguely told tho. Luke delivers in some way. And something very shocking happens...
> 
> Maybe Snoke take over Kylo's body? Maybe Rey's lineage is revealed? Either way this is gonna be a long week.



Can u just ask if Finn was an utter embarrassment again?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zef (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Can u just ask *if Finn was an utter embarrassment again?*


I wasn't joking when I said Finn got electrocuted last page.

It was all over tumblr in the RebelFinn tag. Rose tased him apparently.


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Zef said:


> I wasn't joking when I said Finn got electrocuted last page.
> 
> It was all over tumblr in the RebelFinn tag. Rose tased him apparently.



Oh yeah I know that one i meant more Reylo happenning or him losing to Phasma or a random trooper....

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Zef (Dec 10, 2017)

If Rey falls for the guy that sent Finn into a coma, and killed Han then.....just lol.


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

I suppose I should get to work setting up some fake email accounts so I can get back on some of these Star Wars forums I was banned from.... to gloat or to bitch that is the question.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rukia (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I suppose I should get to work setting up some fake email accounts so I can get back on some of these Star Wars forums I was banned from.... to gloat or to bitch that is the question.


Could really instigate and create a lot of problems.


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## Zef (Dec 10, 2017)

I think The Force.net crashed, lol.





See if you can get better luck then me.


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Could really instigate and create a lot of problems.



Well yes that is the idea....if I do open a new account though I should use an IP Address that wasnt banned before though...

@Zef: Force Boards has been crashing all day on and off...there is no way it will stay up if legit spoilers drop...they really need to improve the infrastructure.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 





oh fuck.................... if true fuck this


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Lol Lucas should pay a hitman to kill KK and RJ if that is they did to Luke Skywalker.... 




I read the same rumor...maybe @~Gesy~  can run it by his buddy for a verification.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 I mean Yoda is not the books that leaked but Frank Oz did randomly get facetime on the Red Carpet so....




Doesnt look like we are getting anything else tonight check in tomorrow I guess. And lol Force Boards is still down...

Normally I ignore it but the guy is a 6 year member on the site with Premium in the name seems weird to risk a ban trolling this hard.


----------



## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's whats bothering me. I haven't seen any other leakers yet. 

We prob wont get any real spoilers until the afternoon, I'm guessing.

If the guy posts proof of his ticket or a picture of him at the event, it's sealed. Waiting on his response to others calling him out on his lack of evidence.


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## Aeternus (Dec 10, 2017)

So it's released this week, huh? Might check it if I get the chance. Can't say I liked TFA that much, was a bit underwhelming imo, but do feel like going to the movies for the holidays.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

eesh them spoilers

don't care about the Snoke one tbh

but the Rey and Luke one  

fuck outta here with that bullshit

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

The guy doesn't' want to post proof, he has nothing to "prove"..

Someone posted these spoilers on reddit and they got downvoted fast.

These twists sounding like ass. 

Kylo FV?


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Well Proof requires a ticket...I cant say I am surprised with Luke Denigrated and a Kylo WankFest seems in light the marketing and the interviews.

Still he is the only one I find it hard to believe everyone suddenly grew a conscious when it comes to leaking though but maybe the after parties are amazing and everyone is too drunk and lazy will see tomorrow.


----------



## The World (Dec 10, 2017)



Reactions: Winner 1


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## Atlas (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Well Proof requires a ticket...I cant say I am surprised with Luke Denigrated and a Kylo WankFest seems in light the marketing and the interviews.



I wouldn't be surprised by anything negative that comes out about this film .


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Atlas said:


> I wouldn't be surprised by anything negative that comes out about this film .



Well it fits because Mark has been pretty vocal he didnt like his character direction so anything where Luke really shines would seems false to me that is for sure. 

But really the guy seems to have no real reason to lie on an account held for so long. No one BS on their main account.

And Frank Oz was randomly on the Red Carpet but will see.


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## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

lmao you see the guy crying in the thread about OP lying tho?


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> lmao you see the guy crying in the thread about OP lying tho?



Typical Reylo behavior ... I mean its not like the kids book wasn't missing some details right.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Typical Reylo behavior ... I mean its not like the kids book wasn't missing some details right.



*Spoiler*: __ 





Apparently that shity romance gains traction from what I'm seeing on twitter


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Eh I am not overly concerned he is still evil...he killed Han and Luke. JJ will clean it up.


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## Aeternus (Dec 10, 2017)

Rey and Kylo? Really? Not really a fan tbh.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 10, 2017)

Reylo feels like i*c*st to me somehow

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 10, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Reylo feels like i*c*st to me somehow


Given Rey's still unknown family, they could end up being related somehow. You never know.


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Course what I really don't get is still how Rey is so fucking powerful at this point to be useful to killing Snoke and how Kylo goes from losing to Rey to beating Snoke and Luke in what a few days? How the fuck does that make logical sense. Not to mention Rey trusting Kylo enough to help him against Snoke...seems to have some major logic holes.


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## Zef (Dec 10, 2017)

Rey will be from a random family.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

Zef said:


> Rey will be from a random family.



No I get that but they didn't even copy the Anakin Immaculate Conception BS...so my point is why the fuck is she so strong with like a week of training...I suppose since Kylo suckers her she does have a character flaw to tone down the Mary Sueness but Ability wise....she is one massive sue...Even fucking Anakin had to train


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## Aeternus (Dec 10, 2017)

If Rey can beat Kylo without any kind of training, then anything can happen.



Zef said:


> Rey will be from a random family.


I don't know. Unless the whole thing is some kind of red herring, there must be some connection.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> if RJ and KK did screw Finn well I get to call them racist and gloat that I was right all along


snippet from an article i just read online: 





> Rian Johnson, the writer and director of the eighth installment of the franchise, dedicated the night to the late Carrie Fisher, who died after filming had completed.
> 
> "She's up there flipping the bird and saying, 'Don't bring this night down with solemn tributes,'" Johnson said on stage at the Shrine Auditorium.
> 
> *It was in that spirit that Johnson excitedly introduced his cast, including Mark Hamill, Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley and Oscar Isaac. Hamill and composer John Williams, who Johnson called one of the "greatest living film composers" were among the few who got standing ovations.*



Boyega didn't even get to stand with the man cast

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> snippet from an article i just read online:
> 
> Boyega didn't even get to stand with the man cast



Really Oscar was there? Thought I heard he was in Europe he didn't get an interview on the Red Carpet either.

Granted RJ has the longest movie in Star Wars history and still cant be assed to give Finn and Poe decent arcs? That is just pathetic.

Still save me money and I get to go nuclear on Star Wars Boards oh I am going to have a good time. I will be getting some new accounts ready for Tuesday.


----------



## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

I cant believe 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Snoke is dead 




Fuck this movie 

Waste of two characters...


----------



## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

= 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Snoke is dead...Luke is Dead....Finn and Poe has no Arc....RJ sucked Kylo's Dick the whole time in the longest Star Wars movies....I suppose Finn kills Phasma and Reylo doesn't have a sex scene so I guess rate this a D not an F


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

Indra said:


> I cant believe
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



it'll probably happen when he's torturing Rey


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> =
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


fucking Luke bruh


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Dec 10, 2017)

I don't believe any of these spoilers

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I don't believe any of these spoilers



You are the one with contact run it by him.

I believe for a few reasons one Mark was pissed ergo the Luke story has to give him a reason to be pissed and this leak does that in my book. Next no one is saying shit about Finn or Poe so them having shit arcs make sense and there has been very little Rose. So combine that with RJ and KK sucking Kylo's dick this whole marketing process and well these spoilers fit those parameters. Plus recent joint press interviews has featured most of the cast looking bored and super disinterested while Mark gets in a few digs and Adam Driver the one who should be happy has all the Charisma of a toad.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

I want the knew new trilogy to be far, far removed from this trilogy's stench...

Ridley says she's done after ep 9 so here's hoping we end this disaster.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 10, 2017)

You got to admire the double bait and switch guys....Before TFA Finn looked like the Main Lead after it was clearly Rey....before TLJ Rey looked like they main lead but RJ got us back on track with a white man in the lead position brilliant work.


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## Zef (Dec 10, 2017)

Force Boards is back up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 10, 2017)

confirm if those previous spoilers are true gentlemen


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## Atlas (Dec 10, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I don't believe any of these spoilers



They are so bad, I kinda believe them.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rukia (Dec 10, 2017)

LMAO.  We have Plagueis confirmation.  I fucking told you guys!!!  Don’t fucking doubt me ever again.  You have lost that right!

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

I'll return to open and read all those spoiler tags on Thursday after I've seen it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 10, 2017)

> *This Touching Story About STAR WARS Icon Mark Hamill Will Remind You Why He Is Among The Best Of The Best*
> 
> Just like his big-screen counterpart, Star Wars icon Mark Hamill has always been one for the Light SIde.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Friendly 3


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## Indra (Dec 10, 2017)

I'm so butt hurt right now


----------



## John Wick (Dec 10, 2017)

Y cos hamil is a nice guy?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The Runner (Dec 10, 2017)

Link to the spoilers


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## Tony Lou (Dec 11, 2017)

I have to wonder why is Rey training with Luke. She can instantly master any ability without practicing at all.

I guess she just wants someone to watch and applaud her while she crushes mountains with her mind.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Indra (Dec 11, 2017)

Luiz said:


> I have to wonder why is Rey training with Luke. She can instantly master any ability without practicing at all.
> 
> I guess she just wants someone to watch and applaud her while she crushes mountains with her mind.


I heard she 
*Spoiler*: __ 




Reached Kylo's level in one movie


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## Swarmy (Dec 11, 2017)

Luiz said:


> I have to wonder why is Rey training with Luke. She can instantly master any ability without practicing at all.
> 
> I guess she just wants someone to watch and applaud her while she crushes mountains with her mind.


The force moves in mysterious ways


----------



## RAGING BONER (Dec 11, 2017)

Indra said:


> I heard she
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


well i heard she beat Kylo in the last movie

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 11, 2017)

Jokes aside review embargo lifts tomorrow so we should get legit spoilers by 12 PM East Coast.


----------



## Vault (Dec 11, 2017)

These Star wars films

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 11, 2017)

Just seen the movie

will post review tomorrow.

just so you know, I'm always right. this shit is a complete waste of time. worst star wars movie ever


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2017)

Just saw the movie. I thought liam neeson was great. Jake lyod is going to surprise everyone, and rivals haley joel osment in sixth sense. The special effects are incredible. This movie is more complicated than the original trilogy and I think it's pretty dark imho, but it gives us everything star wars fans have been waiting for. The final lightsaber duel is one for the record books.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Vault (Dec 11, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Just saw the movie. I thought liam neeson was great. Jake lyod is going to surprise everyone, and rivals haley joel osment in sixth sense. The special effects are incredible. This movie is more complicated than the original trilogy and I think it's pretty dark imho, but it gives us everything star wars fans have been waiting for. The final lightsaber duel is one for the record books.


Full spoilers. Im sorry but i aint dropping money on this


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## Jake CENA (Dec 11, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Just saw the movie. I thought liam neeson was great. Jake lyod is going to surprise everyone, and rivals haley joel osment in sixth sense. The special effects are incredible. This movie is more complicated than the original trilogy and I think it's pretty dark imho, but it gives us everything star wars fans have been waiting for. The final lightsaber duel is one for the record books.



you call that a light saber duel? gtfoutta here man. they basically made ****** jesus and gave *** all powers and light saber mastery up to a notch instantly.


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> you call that a light saber duel? gtfoutta here man. they basically made ****** jesus and gave *** all powers and light saber mastery up to a notch instantly.



I don't want to spoil this because fans won't want all of the surprises ruined for them, but I think it makes sense why quigon did what he did. Pay close attention to the way he interacted with obiwan throughout the movie. You'll find your answer there. I understand being surprised that obiwan could stand toe to toe with darth maul like that, but I feel like the emotion behind what was happening honed obiwan's force abilities. It wasn't an ass pull.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 11, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> I don't want to spoil this because fans won't want all of the surprises ruined for them, but I think it makes sense why quigon did what he did. Pay close attention to the way he interacted with obiwan throughout the movie. You'll find your answer there. I understand being surprised that obiwan could stand toe to toe with darth maul like that, but I feel like the emotion behind what was happening honed obiwan's force abilities. It wasn't an ass pull.



it is an ass pull


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 11, 2017)

Pffft. Maybe you think it's an ass pull because you're an ass _hole_.

*fucking nailed it*​


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 11, 2017)




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## Skaddix (Dec 11, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> it is an ass pull



You could use the excuse Darth Maul was Arrogant but at least Kenobi has training unlike a certain other MaRey Sue. 

So as far as I can tell Luke dies and does some Akira Level Shit. Kylo and Rey kill Snoke. Which is all to say Luke looks more and more pathetic. He should have been more then powerful enough to wrap up this First Order shit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 11, 2017)

Oh boy the spoilers are flowing and I cant even...wow this sounds pretty fucking shitty unless Kylo is your favorite character...


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 11, 2017)

Well..yall was complain about how underpowered Kylo was..careful What you wish for.


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## Skaddix (Dec 11, 2017)

This is the highest budget Fanfic I have ever read talk about a Reylo's Wet Dream while being incredibly Racist and Sexist and destroying Luke Skywalker.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



so if Kylo and Rey kill Snoke then...what?

sounds to me like the story is pretty much wrapped up. First Order ain't shit without Snoke's wealth.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> so if Kylo and Rey kill Snoke then...what?
> 
> sounds to me like the story is pretty much wrapped up. First Order ain't shit without Snoke's wealth.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Maybe Kylo was in the will but yeah Phasma is Dead, Holdo is Dead, Luke is Dead, Leia's Probably Dead with No Carrie Fisher and Hux is either Kylo's whipping boy or dead. And the resistance has been reduced to only those on the Millennium Falcon. I really don't see how you stretch this out to 2 hours plus? Time Jump and then our heroes do a Suicide Squad (an actual Suicide Squad) style attack.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2017)

Damn, you guys aren't fucking around with letting spoilers fly.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)

You can't believe everything you read. Just 72 hours left anyway.

Today the embargo should be coming out soon.

Some other reactions.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> You could use the excuse Darth Maul was Arrogant but at least Kenobi has training unlike a certain other MaRey Sue.
> 
> So as far as I can tell Luke dies and does some Akira Level Shit. Kylo and Rey kill Snoke. Which is all to say Luke looks more and more pathetic. He should have been more then powerful enough to wrap up this First Order shit.



Luke was supposed to be the man of destiny right? He wasted away and lived like a hobo for so many years and a scrub like Obi Wan somehow became more powerful than him  

Did Luke lost all interest when he got the Shanks treatment and lost his dominant arm?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

If only those first reactions were ever true...


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

The movie is complete bull shit. You’re just a die hard fanboy in denial if you don’t think so.

And this shit is the reason why we are gerring three Obi wan movies??? Fuck that shit


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

@Jake CENA I see you found the spoilers good stuff right.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> @Jake CENA I see you found the spoilers good stuff right.



There was a midnight screening here last night


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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

We are getting three Obi Wan movies? This is the new trilogy that was announced recently?


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> There was a midnight screening here last night



....so come on man confirm the spoilers. Snoke dead? Reylo? Luke going out like a bitch? Leia coma? Phasma dead? Finn Cucked? Dont hold out come on man I want some confirmation of this shit.


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## Mider T (Dec 12, 2017)

All talk of the movie should be spoiler tagged until at least next Monday.


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Pointless embargo lifts in like 12 hours. But sure I suppose tagging shit isnt too hard.


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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

What's better than getting a shock when watching the movie without knowing a thing?


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> What's better than getting a shock when watching the movie without knowing a thing?



Doesn't matter in my book, a movie without rewatchability is pointless if you ask me. Besides knowing what your spending your money on is important.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> ....so come on man confirm the spoilers. Snoke dead? Reylo? Luke going out like a bitch? Leia coma? Phasma dead? Finn Cucked? Dont hold out come on man I want some confirmation of this shit.



Luke was a complete weak ass bitch. That’s all i can say. That is more than enough reason to prove that this movie is a piece of shit.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> We are getting three Obi Wan movies? This is the new trilogy that was announced recently?



Yes, i don’t even understand the logic behind this move. Nobody wants to see another 3 Star War movies that are shit in quality.

I’d rather have a Bobba Fett movie tbh. I want a bad guy to be the main character ffs. I’m sick and tired of this useless Jedi bullshit. They are not doing anything good for the galaxy. They all need to die offscreen. Starting with Rey!!


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Luke was a complete weak ass bitch. That’s all i can say. That is more than enough reason to prove that this movie is a piece of shit.



Thank you...Poor George Lucas and Mark Hamill lol


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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Doesn't matter in my book, a movie without rewatchability is pointless if you ask me. Besides knowing what your spending your money on is important.


Will definitely agree with the latter but still would like for some things not to be spoiled before watching the movie. At least when it comes to the most important stuff anyway.
I almost never rewatch stuff anyway, so that doesn't concern me much really.


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## Tenma (Dec 12, 2017)

3 Obiwan movies 

This makes Fantastic Beasts look positively restrained


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

I dont even get it isnt Obi-wan suppose to be sitting around watching Luke? How does he have time for 3 Movies worth of Adventures....No way he keeps a low profile doing this.


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




everything was true

fuck this movie

fuck this franchise

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 12, 2017)

People still think the ST is better than the PT

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Yes, i don’t even understand the logic behind this move. Nobody wants to see another 3 Star War movies that are shit in quality.
> 
> I’d rather have a Bobba Fett movie tbh. I want a bad guy to be the main character ffs. I’m sick and tired of this useless Jedi bullshit. They are not doing anything good for the galaxy. They all need to die offscreen. Starting with Rey!!


So in other words, another prequel, right?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

I AM ALWAYS RIGHT™

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tony Lou (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Luke was supposed to be the man of destiny right? He wasted away and lived like a hobo for so many years and a scrub like Obi Wan somehow became more powerful than him
> 
> Did Luke lost all interest when he got the Shanks treatment and lost his dominant arm?



Yeah, but he wasn't able to use any jedi abilities before being trained by one.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I dont even get it isnt Obi-wan suppose to be sitting around watching Luke? How does he have time for 3 Movies worth of Adventures....No way he keeps a low profile doing this.



chewbacca should kill obi-wan!



Luiz said:


> Yeah, but he wasn't able to use any jedi abilities before being trained by one.




*Spoiler*: __ 



that's the point. anyone can train to become a grand master jedi. even a janitor can harness the force and be stronger than fucking Luke


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Luiz said:


> Yeah, but he wasn't able to use any jedi abilities before being trained by one.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Suddenly everyone can fuck training its for rubes. Rey dont need no training and this movie basically has post credit scene of some random kid force pulling a fucking broom with no training. Fuck Training Its Overrated cause who gives a fuck about Canon now everyone can be better than a Chosen One like Anakin.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

@Sennin of Hardwork RT score is coming up in 2+ hours, correct ?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

it should be around 65% if its higher than that, then they are being generous or they were paid by the mouse


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> it should be around 65% if its higher than that, then they are being generous or they were paid by the mouse



You know I made fun of DC Fanboys but after reading the fucking spoilers for this shitshow and the reviews...I think they might be right the House of Mouse does seem to be bribing the critics. This movie fucks over canon which Lucas got crucified for, deep dicks Luke like its a p*d*p**** and all around shits on everyone not named Kylo Ren. 10/10 Greatest Since Empire.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



what's worse is Finn had more screen time than what he actually deserves!


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> @Sennin of Hardwork RT score is coming up in 2+ hours, correct ?



I guess? I don't control that and I was just assuming.


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> what's worse is Finn had more screen time than what he actually deserves!


Eh all the POC were utterly pointless in this movie Finn, Rose, Poe, DJ...you could literally delete them all and it would change nothing in this movie. RJ is genius who character assassinated Luke and was incapable of writing good B-Plots. 

But yeah I like John Boyega, Oscar Issacs, KMT and BDT but Finn is pointless, I held out some degree of hope but no fuck it. They should have just killed them all but Rey an do a time skip where Rey goes around and recruits some force sensitive kids to launch one final attack on Kylo.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> I don't control that and I was just assuming.


I was sure you are omniscient

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

mah boi Kylo kicking major ass I hear ?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Eh all the POC were utterly pointless in this movie Finn, Rose, Poe, DJ...you could literally delete them all and it would change nothing in this movie. RJ is genius who character assassinated Luke and was incapable of writing good B-Plots.
> 
> But yeah I like John Boyega, Oscar Issacs, KMT and BDT but Finn is pointless, I held out some degree of hope but no fuck it. They should have just killed them all but Rey an do a time skip where Rey goes around and recruits some force sensitive kids to launch one final attack on Kylo.



having Rey as a jedi trainer doesn't make sense either


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I was sure you are omniscient



He just works hard...100 pushups 100 situps 100 squats 10km Every Day

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> mah boi Kylo kicking major ass I hear ?



no, he's an apologetic dumbass with a broken moral compass

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> mah boi Kylo kicking major ass I hear ?



*Spoiler*: __ 



He defeats of Force Projection of Luke and Shanks Snoke in the back like the cowardly bitchass Starscream he is.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

I missed WW and JL in the theaters but will probably go see this

give mouse some bucks so it can buy Fox


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> having Rey as a jedi trainer doesn't make sense either



Let the past die, let the logic and canon fade away. Kill It with fire.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Let the past die, let the logic and canon fade away. Kill It with fire.



Finn should be the Jedi trainer  it makes the most sense imho


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Finn should be the Jedi trainer  it makes the most sense imho



Here is the thing why is Rey relevant at all? I mean really think about she only has a stake in this fucking conflict because BB-8 rolled in front of her and she decided to keep the droid instead of cashing in That its she is not related to anyone import or unimportant and entered the movie with no connection to the ongoing conflict if she had stayed on Jakku the war would have zero impact on her either way. Like really literally every other hero Finn, Poe and Rose all have more compelling backgrounds to be the lead out to stop the First Order. Instead we got Rey because we need a white girl with a magic vagina to redeem Kylo apparently.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I was sure you are omniscient







Skaddix said:


> He just works hard...100 pushups 100 situps 100 squats 10km Every Day

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Here is the thing why is Rey relevant at all? I mean really think about she only has a stake in this fucking conflict because BB-8 rolled in front of her and she decided to keep the droid instead of cashing in That its she is not related to anyone import or unimportant and entered the movie with no connection to the ongoing conflict if she had stayed on Jakku the war would have zero impact on her either way. Like really literally every other hero Finn, Poe and Rose all have more compelling backgrounds to be the lead out to stop the First Order. Instead we got Rey because we need a white girl with a magic vagina to redeem Kylo apparently.



because feminism thats what it is. 

Finn being a jedi master/trainer will work. Imagine Star Wars with a plot similar to Spartacus. Finn will recruit all janitors in the galaxy to become Jedis and go an all out war against the First Order.


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> because feminism thats what it is.
> 
> Finn being a jedi master/trainer will work. Imagine Star Wars with a plot similar to Spartacus. Finn will recruit all janitors in the galaxy to become Jedis and go an all out war against the First Order.



You joke put Finn recruiting a bunch of First Order Child Soldiers to take down the First Order is far more compelling plot even if they are janitors then getting force fed shitty twilight fanfiction. The fucking Ewoks raped the Empire after all

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> You joke put Finn recruiting a bunch of First Order Child Soldiers to take down the First Order is far more compelling plot even if they are janitors then getting force fed shitty twilight fanfiction. The fucking Ewoks raped the Empire after all



come on man, space janitors becoming jedis all of a sudden is epic! imagine Finn giving a rousing speech and all dem space janitors unlock the force instantly 

lucas would be proud!


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

It works you don't need to train anymore in fact I argue the Skywalkers are special in that they are retards took kylo what a decade to get where Rey got in 10 fucking days? Random Kid at the end is stronger then ESB Luke the first time he uses the Force.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> It works you don't need to train anymore in fact I argue the Skywalkers are special in that they are retards took kylo what a decade to get where Rey got in 10 fucking days? Random Kid at the end is stronger then ESB Luke the first time he uses the Force.



the skywalkers can only use 1% of their brain function that's why it took them years to harness the force 

rey on the other hand can use 5% and it only took her 5mins to beat the shit out of Kylo lmao


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## Tenma (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So Snoke turned out to be entirely pointless

He literally only existed because KK's hacks are too uncreative to think of any motivation behind Kylo's fall/First Order beyond a Sidious ripoff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

I'll watch this movie, but after that I'm more or less done with the franchise.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Mider T (Dec 12, 2017)

Why are we discussing the movie without spoiler tags?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> I'll watch this movie, but after that I'm more or less done with the franchise.


Yeah Yeah, see you for the sequel


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## Katou (Dec 12, 2017)

for anyone watching and paying for the movie..
tell me if Kylo gets better at sword fighting


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> I'll watch this movie, but after that I'm more or less done with the franchise.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Katou (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Matta Clatta (Dec 12, 2017)

Man its such a shame I liked the Force Awakens so much. This wouldn't hurt so much if I didn't
These spoilers sound really really bad and almost down to the level of pre trilogy bad 
I want to believe rian johnson isn't capable of such bad writing but...


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Why are we discussing the movie without spoiler tags?


because who fucking cares

fuck this movie

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mider T (Dec 12, 2017)

The World said:


> because who fucking cares
> 
> fuck this movie


Everyone posting here cares.


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## Vault (Dec 12, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Everyone posting here cares.


You're the only one saying that and even then you arent even mad

Reactions: Funny 2


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Everyone posting here cares.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



So based on what I've read from Force.net :

-Luke dies
-Rey's parentage is random
-Kylo flips flops
-Rey wants to redeem Kylo
-Kylo shows his abs to Rey, and she likes it
-Kylo and Rey have some kind of force "connection"
-Snoke dies
-Phasma calls Finn "scum", and he replies by saying "Rebel scum" **cringe*   *
-Phasma falls to her death
-Rose kisses Finn
-Rose is put in a coma

Movie sounds really shitty, and fanfic like tbh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> *
> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> ...





*Spoiler*: __ 



I'm fucking done bruh, you killed me with this


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## Mider T (Dec 12, 2017)

Vault said:


> You're the only one saying that and even then you arent even mad




Just because you guys are salty about a movie you're going to see regardless doesn't mean everybody wants to be spoiled.  This is one of the biggest films of the year and I'm pretty sure there was a spoiler policy in effect for TRA.

@Sennin of Hardwork make it happen.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Just because you guys are salty about a movie you're going to see regardless doesn't mean everybody wants to be spoiled.  This is one of the biggest films of the year and I'm pretty sure there was a spoiler policy in effect for *TRA*.
> 
> @Sennin of Hardwork make it happen.


*TFA

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

Kylo stole Finn's girl?

Yup I'm skipping this.


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Kylo stole Finn's girl?
> 
> Yup I'm skipping this.


Good looking Black Male lead getting cucked by a white man? What is this 1963?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

The World said:


> Good looking Black Male lead getting cucked by a white man? What is this 1963?


Can't even escape the struggle in space.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Kylo stole Finn's girl?


apparently 96% loved it


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## Katou (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> -Kylo and Rey have some kind of force "connection"




*Spoiler*: __ 



ok ... I'm done ...

are they gonna go for the " Bad guys can turn into good guys too " kind of lesson
reversing the RoS ? nope..im done


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

I refuse to believe anything I read here until I see the movie for myself

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Tenma said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Hey he is the strongest ever though much better than Palpatine? I mean sheesh he got the chance to learn from Palpatines fuck up and he still got the starscream special at least with Fucking Vader, Palps thought he too damaged to move and mentally broken over 2 decades. Meanwhile Snoke is missing the signs that Kylo wants to bang Rey and has only had kylo for 5 years


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fucking done bruh, you killed me with this [-



*Spoiler*: __ 



Reylo seems to actually be a thing in this film.


There might be a worse love story then Twilight after all.

I low-key knew they were introducing Rose to keep Finn away from Rey. But if Rey is actually going to hook up with the dude that killed Han, and now Luke then Finn dodged a bullet.






Priscilla said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



They were kinda going with that in TFA except this time they're using Rey to turn him.

Rey's puss is more convincing then his own dad. Han died for nothing.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

95% from 106 reviews

100% from "top critics"


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## Katou (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Rey's puss is more convincing then his own dad. Han died for nothing.



*Spoiler*: __ 



I feel bad for Han... he doesn't even deserve that.
but i guess he probably requested for that .. so he can get out and make it more dramatic at the same time


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 






> As it turns out, although “The Last Jedi” meets a relatively high standard for franchise filmmaking, Johnson’s effort is ultimately a disappointment. If anything, it demonstrates just how effective supervising producer Kathleen Kennedy and the forces that oversee this now Disney-owned property are at molding their individual directors’ visions into supporting a unified corporate aesthetic — a process that chewed up and spat out helmers such as Colin Trevorrow, Gareth Edwards, Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. But Johnson was either strong enough or weak enough to adapt to such pressures, and the result is the longest and least essential chapter in the series.





> audiences could presumably skip this film and show up for Episode IX without experiencing the slightest confusion as to what happened in the interim.


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Lol





> An old hope. A new realism. An old anxiety. *A new feeling that the Force might be used to channel erotic telepathy, and long-distance evil seduction*



I'm dead.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Katou (Dec 12, 2017)

Hopefully they reference this at Big Bang Theory


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 12, 2017)

@The World how big is Mouses "RT budget" ?


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Weiss said:


> @The World how big is Mouses "RT budget" ?



Infinite Apparently. If George directed this they burn him at the stake. RJ and KK do it and its all good.

George got more hate for Greedo shooting fucking first then RJ will get for Twlight in Star Wars, Character Assassinating Luke and not doing shit with the POC?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

Interesting....

*Spoiler*: __ 




Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree




> While Rey spends her time on a remote island, she interacts with Kylo Ren through a series of mind-melding sequences shot as if the pair were in conversation, resulting in one of the more fascinating approaches to time and space this side of “Inception.” In the midst of Kylo and Rey working through their problems of neglected youth and uncertain allegiances, Johnson shoehorns in a psychedelic dream sequence that deepens the mystique. Both characters exist in a morally ambiguous plane, their fates mysteriously intermingled, and it’s a shrewd, risky maneuver to bring them together in a context beyond the expected duels.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is def some fanfic logic being displayed

*Spoiler*: __ 




If Rey and Kylo develop a force bond outta nowhere 
Finn finishing the burial of phasma 
Snoke dying because its shocking 

Luke retconned into asshole and his legacy getting ruined 

Also dying in a really shitty way 




I really have no idea how a real star wars fan could enjoy this movie on any level.

Looks like this will divide the fanbase much like the prequels did

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 12, 2017)

So let me wrap my head around this 

*Spoiler*: _BS_ 




Kylo ren is tempted to go back to the light side not by his own dad or mom who 
you know lost him to snoke or whatever 
Not like we'll know that story either because he's dead but because of Rey's magical junk girl force powers have created this super powerful bond between them that didn't exist in the other movie but RJ said don't think about that yet....



If George Lucas made this 
The fans and critics would be burning him alive

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

Mider a snitch !

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> not doing shit with the POC?



Speaking of, the reviews I've seen are pretty unanimous that Finn and Rose' plot was the worst part of the movie.

I mean it's not really a surprise, but it's disappointing when you compare what we thought Finn would be when the trailer of TFA first came out to what he's become.

Boyega should skip out on the next film, but I guess he's in a contract and happy with the money he's making.


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> Speaking of, the reviews I've seen are pretty unanimous that Finn and Rose' plot was the worst part of the movie.
> 
> I mean it's not really a surprise, but it's disappointing when you compare what we thought Finn would be when the trailer of TFA first came out to what he's become.
> 
> Boyega should skip out on the next film, but I guess he's in a contract and happy with the money he's making.



I dont think he is getting paid all that much its more the exposure but you get the feeling LF was Vader and he was Lando wherein LF altered the deal.

Like I mean I am not joking nothing any of the fucking POC do in this movie makes a single bit of difference. I suppose Holdo (Dern) ramming ships makes some difference but not enough cause the resistance is stuck relying on Rey to save the fucking galaxy with no backup while she is compromised diddling herself with thought of Kylo.

Who knew all you had to to be praised as a genius is assassinate an Iconic Character, put a woman back in her place baking cookies and making babies and turn all the POC into comic relief wallpaper to prop up an Alt Right Poster Child? Truly groundbreaking stuff guys....never seen this stuff before.


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

Lando>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lando's charisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finn

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Zef (Dec 12, 2017)

Still trying to figure out Poe's purpose.

Probably the only character even less relevant then Finn.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

The World said:


> Lando>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lando's charisma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finn



Lets be fair Lando had way better material to work with. Cause you know Lando was actually fucking progressive especially for the time...Suave Black Man, Han Solo Friend Running His Own Fucking City and in his second movie Rebellion General who gets to fly through the Second Death Star and take it out?  And they call Lucas the racist....meanwhile what does Finn get that even comes close to that? There is only so much you can do to elevate shit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Zef said:


> Still trying to figure out Poe's purpose.
> 
> Probably the only character even less relevant then Finn.



Get demoted for being too reckless? Cause the Resistance is known for playing by the fucking book and getting things done by playing it save. Still that is the point RJ was too busy screwing Luke, jacking off to high big budget Reylo Fanfic to do anything worthwhile with anyone else. 

Got to admire Mark though, they absolutely fuck his character, he hates it and yet he still delivers a great performance. A True Professional. I can not await for a tell all book when he tears into KKK and RJ.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

This is actually getting a lot of high praise from actual  Star Wars fans. So I don't really know what's the truth as of yet.


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Eh they will swallow anything as long as it isnt by George.

Plus if you shit talk the Mouse you aint getting that Avengers Infinity War Invite you are staying at home.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 12, 2017)

Honestly Film reviewers are well on their way to becoming Videogame Reviewers. Everything at least an 8

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Lets be fair Lando had way better material to work with. Cause you know Lando was actually fucking progressive especially for the time...Suave Black Man, Han Solo Friend Running His Own Fucking City and in his second movie Rebellion General who gets to fly through the Second Death Star and take it out?  And they call Lucas the racist....meanwhile what does Finn get that even comes close to that? There is only so much you can do to elevate shit.


We go from a black man owning a wealthy city to a space janitor working for space nazis 

we can't win outchea


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## Son Of Man (Dec 12, 2017)

This movie sounds great. 10/10


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## The World (Dec 12, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> This is actually getting a lot of high praise from actual  Star Wars fans. So I don't really know what's the truth as of yet.


Force Awakens had high praise too initially 

never forget

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Vault (Dec 12, 2017)

The World said:


> Force Awakens had high praise too initially
> 
> never forget


That first viewing, it was good after the 2nd one yikes. Stock plummeted faster than Inception

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Aeternus (Dec 12, 2017)

If only those ratings were true. Because most if the time, not really.


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## JFF (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




From what I heard Snoke gets killed by Kylo along with Rey. And there is an amazing fight scene against the guards. I have not heard that Luke dies !?




Ratings now at 93% --- You would wait. Its certainly not a bad picture when you look at the early numbers, but usually it takes a while for accurate scores. Well, its gonna be better then Justice League


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## ~VK~ (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



so finn gets cucked by the whiny nazi manchild that killed han and somehow becomes even more irrelevant? really??




people how did we go from lando and mace windu to this


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## ~VK~ (Dec 12, 2017)

the minority characters in minor roles. how fitting


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## Indra (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




Finn gets placed with the new fat asian girl, they share a kiss.

man LOL....


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i suspected as much but still ...


----------



## ~VK~ (Dec 12, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

@mr_shadow

do you think they'll cut out the
*Spoiler*: __ 



 kiss 


between Space Janitor and Chubby Azn filler character for Communist China release?


I mean, a lot of Chinese might be put off witnessing something like that for the first time.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Indra (Dec 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> i suspected as much but still ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




Yep and Rey gets  with Mr. cries a lot.

There's a scene where she force bonds with him, and he's in his room without a shirt on. And she gets flustered

Can't make this shit up

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Platypus (Dec 12, 2017)

All dialogue from the movie

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)

Oh c'mon now.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

I hear Finn's storyline feels disjointed from the overall plot. Was his azn waifu a late change?



The World said:


> Force Awakens had high praise too initially
> 
> never forget


TFA wasn't bad..just ordinary


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## Atlas (Dec 12, 2017)

Spoilers murdered my hype for this film.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

> But... Wait, who knows
> where the breaker room
> is on a Star Destroyer?
> 
> ...



i'll give you guys one guess who says this last line

Reactions: Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 12, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Yoooo, Luke tried to kill Ben when he was just a kid because he saw a glimpse of his future...and that's what caused him to _really_ fall! 




I can't even bruh; Luke done fucked up the galaxy


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This the same guy who believed in his Tyrant father and even saw him as a good man in the end? Nah I don't believe it. 

But I  better leave this thread until after seeing it for my own good.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Atlas (Dec 12, 2017)

That sounds like a better movie than what the spoilers are saying.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Tenma (Dec 12, 2017)

> On top of _Star Wars: The Force Awakens _two years ago, and the side trip last year to the stand-alone _Rogue One, _ has now more than confirmed the wisdom of rebooting Lucasfilm’s crown jewel saga with what just might be the best film in the entire series that started 40 years ago in the mind of George Lucas_. _That first movie, 1977’s _Star Wars_, is to date still the only one (and one of the very few science fiction films, period) to have garnered a Best Picture Oscar nomination. However, if the Academy is handing them out this year on the basis of sheer fun and big-canvas filmmaking at its zenith, then _Star Wars: The Last Jedi _would be more than deserving of the honor.



not even pretending he's not on disney's payroll

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 12, 2017)




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## TrueG 37 (Dec 12, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mark Hamil tried to warn us and we didn't listen.


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## Rukia (Dec 13, 2017)

What’s this about nudity?


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Rukia said:


> What’s this about nudity?



Kylo has a shirtless scene why ? Cause RJ sucks his dick.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Rukia (Dec 13, 2017)

Well that won’t draw a dime!


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## Katou (Dec 13, 2017)

nudity for Kylo?
what did they think are the ratio of gender watching this film?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 13, 2017)




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## Jake CENA (Dec 13, 2017)

Kylo is a shrimp. Has a passable body but has an ugly face. Just like a shrimp, you eat the body and throw away the head! 

~snip~

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Katou (Dec 13, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> Kylo is a shrimp. Has a passable body but has an ugly face. Just like a shrimp, you eat the body and throw away the head!
> 
> ~snip~


everything u just said made sense

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Eh you can describe TFA as a movie for SJWs but TLJ? Hardly TLJ is all about sucking the Dick of Kylo Ren. I mean yeah you have a chubby nerd Asian but I don't think any SJW wants a bunch of minorities who don't do shit that is relevant to the plot featuring comic relief black guy and latino getting demoted for being too good. While the White Characters do all the relevant shit and get the special force powers in a movie mostly about creating a sad sob story and trying to get Darth Emo laid.


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## Katou (Dec 13, 2017)

nothing more is gonna get them angry than Mace having a cruel death


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## Jake CENA (Dec 13, 2017)

oh wait, Rouge One did feature allahu akbar characters! all them good guys were on a suicide bombing mission! rofl


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## Tony Lou (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Eh you can describe TFA as a movie for SJWs but TLJ? Hardly TLJ is all about sucking the Dick of Kylo Ren. I mean yeah you have a chubby nerd Asian but I don't think any SJW wants a bunch of minorities who don't do shit that is relevant to the plot featuring comic relief black guy and latino getting demoted for being too good. While the White Characters do all the relevant shit and get the special force powers in a movie mostly about creating a sad sob story and trying to get Darth Emo laid.



Darth Emo. 

Yeah, I just can't take Kylo Ren seriously. And there is no way he is getting laid.



Jake CENA said:


> oh wait, Rouge One did feature allahu akbar characters! all them good guys were on a suicide bombing mission! rofl



And let's not forget about Space! Che Guevara.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Yeah Rogue One wasn't subtle was it...didn't the Muslim also get enhanced interrogation?


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



They tell us that Kylo is supposed be powerful and yet he lost to Rey and couldn't beat either Luke or Snoke straight up so where is the fucking tension in 9 in a fight.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



pretty much only looking forward to Luke's last stand while the last of the rebels escape...

the Canto Blight shit sounds boring af

the 'rebels on the run' thing has been done

Rey and Kylo...lel

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 13, 2017)




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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)




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## Suigetsu (Dec 13, 2017)

Just saw it and I didnt even had to pay for it.
For god sake, what a train wreck.


*Spoiler*: __ 




And just look at Mark, he really is upset



I legit want to give Mark Hamill a hug.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

@Suigetsu

*Spoiler*: __ 



Can someone who saw it answer the question the kid at the end of movie who pulls the broom? Is the kid white or black because in the children's book he is black and if RJ changed it I really love more evidence to call him a racist.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> kid at the end of movie who pulls the broom?


what the fuck is this shit?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

so _that's_ the Harry Potter shit they were talmbout


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> so _that's_ the Harry Potter shit they were talmbout




*Spoiler*: __ 



The broom yes but in Harry Potter you needed fucking training even Voldemort one of the greatest genius couldnt do much I think he could talk to snakes and close boxes without training. He certainly couldnt move a fucking broom across the room with none.


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> @Suigetsu
> Can someone who saw it answer the question the kid at the end of movie who pulls the broom? Is the kid white or black because in the children's book he is black and if RJ changed it I really love more evidence to call him a racist.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Nevermind found the info....lol RJ shits on Finn the whole movie then rubs his fans face in the dirt by giving some random irrelevant white kid the Force....beautiful.

RJ: KEEP THE FORCE WHITE 2017


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

so i just saw the actress that plays gremlin girl's sister...and now I'm wishing they would have swapped their roles.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 13, 2017)

Just got back from seeing this.... as a lifelong Star Wars fan, I sadly feel disappointed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> ????


don't know her name...she's just cuter; but she dies in a suicide attack, apparently like most of the cast of this movie


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> ????



I think he means Rose's actress should've been swapped with her sisters 
*Spoiler*: __ 



The bomber chick who dies in the beginning.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 13, 2017)

Surprised by the bad feedback. Wonder if this one might be better for the casuals. I mean, for me snoke is just another CGI bad guy I saw a glimpse of in the last movie. I have no expectations with this character. 

It's better than force awakens, right?


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 13, 2017)

I suppose I fall under "casual" I guess, I'll give my full thoughts on this tomorrow.


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 13, 2017)

I liked episode 8, visually stunning and really really well written about the Jedi and the Resistance.
The bad guys are terrible tho 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Snoke is completely useless. 




But this coming from a guy that hated TFA with passion, I think Rian Johnson did a pretty good job and digged this trilogy out from an hole. Now it does have a soul and it can go anywhere in the last chapter.

Btw Finn and Poe have the best roles in the movie, they were amazing.

*Spoiler*: __ 



He doesnt get cucked, but its actually the other way around




I am still iffy about Kylo and Rey, prolly episode 9 will be the deciding factor for them as characters.


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## Atlas (Dec 13, 2017)

Sounds like the prequels are still better. At least they gave us prequel memes and Greivous.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 13, 2017)

From a creative standpoint the ST is a failure, because it doesn't do the most important thing it had to do: make a continuation to the rest of the saga that makes sense. And so far, it hasn't done it. Luke and Han's characters got ruined and the struggle to bring down the Empire was ultimately meaningless. And the Jedi are all gone AGAIN. All because they wanted to redo the OT and make Rey Random the real hero. And now we're stuck with Darth Wannabe as the main villain? Ugh.

I mean TLJ doesn't even really follow up on the stuff JJ laid down. Knights of Ren? More like Knights of Retconned out of existence. Rey's parents? Just some junkies that sold her.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 13, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




They didn't ruin Luke at all. 
He was a perfect representation of a Jedi, but as human being he was flawed like anyone else.
He made an ambitious plan and it failed, but it totally make sense since he never really had a regular training as a Jedi, and underestimated the role of a Master.
Went out by doing something that only legends can do.


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## Suigetsu (Dec 13, 2017)

I legit feel bad for Mark btw am I the only one that kept bursting laughs during ridiculous moments such as 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 snookie's demise and SuperLeia?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




....yes cause its perfectly in character for Luke to sneak into the room to try to kill his nephew cause he got a vision of Kylo going Dark...you think Anakin would have warned him about trusting such visions apparently not. Luke decides to cut down his nephew who hasnt done anything wrong yet when he painstakingly tried to redeem his father who had a terrible ledger. And gave Jabba the fucking Hut a chance to surrender before going to town with a lightsaber.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> I legit feel bad for Mark btw am I the only one that kept bursting laughs during ridiculous moments such as
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Snookie demise was dumb apparently he didnt learn jack shit from palpatine and at least Palpatine thought Vader was down and out for a while.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 13, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Snookie demise was dumb apparently he didnt learn jack shit from palpatine and at least Palpatine thought Vader was down and out for a while.


I always had zero expectations for disney wars but I gotta give this to them, I never tought it would go to the trashbin while it's main focus being appeasing the tumblerite crowd, chinese market and the "diversity?" agenda. Of which only Gringos seem to complain about. Story really was the least of their concerns.

And to think that this whole thing leaked in 4chan back in june. Crack penguins and sea sloths.


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> I always had zero expectations for disney wars but I gotta give this to them, I never tought it would go to the trashbin while it's main focus being appeasing the tumblerite crowd, chinese market and the "diversity?" agenda. Of which only Gringos seem to complain about. Story really was the least of their concerns.
> 
> And to think that this whole thing leaked in 4chan back in june. Crack penguins and sea sloths.



I feel bad maybe I need to apologize about shitting on BOruto.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

so what the fuck was the point of Snoke?

they could have just gone with a Darth Caedus and Jaina Solo story...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

The guy who destroyed the OT, The NJO and the New Republic is this bitch......I cant even.


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## Zef (Dec 13, 2017)

They doubled down on the joke of Finn being a janitor.......


How could Boyega even read that shit without getting offended?


Fuck this movie.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Zef said:


> They doubled down on the joke of Finn being a janitor.......
> 
> 
> How could Boyega even read that shit without getting offended?
> ...



Now we know why Mark, John and Daisy all ran straight over to talk to RJ about the script. Who I am sure whipped out their contracts and told them to sit down and stfu.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Zef (Dec 13, 2017)

So sick of Hollywood casting black men as bumbling, funny black guys.

Apparently the only diversity they'll accept are white women leads.
POC are still treated like trash by these filmmakers.

Finn is essentially a slightly more competent Jar Jar Binks.


Boyega needs to nip that shit in the butt or else "stupid black guy" is the only role he'll get in the future.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 13, 2017)

You got Pacific Rim: Uprising to look forward for John Boyega if some of you are again disappointed by just _reading _these spoilers so, yeah I guess.


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## MCTDread (Dec 13, 2017)

Still excited to see it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 13, 2017)

Zef said:


> So sick of Hollywood casting black men as bumbling, funny black guys.
> 
> Apparently the only diversity they'll accept are white women leads.
> POC are still treated like trash by these filmmakers.
> ...


And black women with Afros.

Diversity its inverted racism. I am more of the kind that wants the actor to look the part or have an amazing actor that can take the part. Its all about making it feel authentic.

Fuck Daisy Riddley but I feel bad for boyega and Mark specially.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 13, 2017)



Reactions: Like 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 13, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Kylo is Jacen with none of the badassery and who wears a Reven mask that looks like it was made in a Chinese bootleg sweatshop




*Spoiler*: __ 



He also lacks a compelling reason to Fall...the rigors of constant conflict caused Jacen to break down.

Here Kylo  is a whiny bitch and instead of going after Luke who is actually pissed at he goes after everyone else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TasteTheDifference (Dec 13, 2017)

Anyone else not convinced by some of daisy Ridley's acting here, it was really jarring in a way that tfa wasnt.  I think people around here will have a lot of problems with Rey, if you hated rey in the last one all of what so wound you up there is tenfold here, her perfection morally physically emotionally, she's basically a jedi master in a broad sense half way through the movie


*Spoiler*: __ 



the snoke thing really got me, even for a minute afterwards I kept thinking he was going to pull an elder toguro 




I did enjoy it though, theres plenty to like about it


----------



## Detective (Dec 13, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Stunna right now:


*Spoiler*: __


----------



## TasteTheDifference (Dec 13, 2017)

finn doesnt get cucked lol

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Detective (Dec 13, 2017)

I still expect Stunna to have a couple 



moments before its all said and done. 

He gonna be sweatin' in that movie theatre during his initial viewing.


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## TasteTheDifference (Dec 13, 2017)

okay he doesnt get _cucked _but this /tv/ post did make me laugh (its a spoiler)



bait away


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 13, 2017)

I heard he gets wrecked by Phasma and gremlin girl has to save him so he can attack her from behind


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## Rukia (Dec 14, 2017)

What the fuck happened to Finn????

He deserved better.  Fuck this shit.  I’m not interested anymore.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Thespacelord (Dec 14, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Snoke died like a bitch....maybe he really was Boba Fett afterall

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Rukia said:


> What the fuck happened to Finn????
> 
> He deserved better.  Fuck this shit.  I’m not interested anymore.



Its not hard Rian Johnson is simply a racist who didn't give a darn about writing anyone but Kylo Ren. Finn was in the way of his Reylo FanFic so he buried him.


----------



## Rukia (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Its not hard Rian Johnson is simply a racist who didn't give a darn about writing anyone but Kylo Ren. Finn was in the way of his Reylo FanFic so he buried him.


That fucking sucks.  I’m going to take my money to Jumanji.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Suigetsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Its not hard Rian Johnson is simply a racist who didn't give a darn about writing anyone but Kylo Ren. Finn was in the way of his Reylo FanFic so he buried him.


Racist whilst 3/4 of the cast is non white? I would blame Kathy Kennedy and her feminist gang. They clearly only care about the shade of the characters as opposed to make actual fucking characters.

TBH I dont give a darn about any of the characters except for Luke - despite the whole Disney SW being shit garbage - for Mark Hamill's sake. But this over all hurts, and to think there is people that liked it and gave it a high rating. Also I like how the ratings are boguht and paid for. What a joke this turned out to be.

@Rukia
To Jumaji we go.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tenma (Dec 14, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Luke tried to kill Kylo as a kid because he had some bad dreams? The son of his sister and best friend? Like shit even Anakin didn't start killing toddlers so easily.

No wonder Mark Hamill was so upset with the script.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Katou (Dec 14, 2017)

Tenma said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus...
even Yoda was calm when he's already dreaming about Anakin killing everything

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rukia (Dec 14, 2017)

I feel bad for the Finn actor.  He was a hot prospect two years ago.  Now he is a bit player in this franchise, that is despite being the best part of the first movie.  And he follows this up with the lame looking Pacific Rim 2!  Jesus!!


----------



## Katou (Dec 14, 2017)

I'm gonna assume that Star Wars 1-6 are the only canon ones..
and 7 onward are just meds for the hardcore fans that rates every SW movies 100/10

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Djomla (Dec 14, 2017)

Can anybody who saw the movie tell me is Luke badass as he is in Expanded Universe or is he a pussy?

Cause I ain't seeing it if it's the later one.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 14, 2017)

TasteTheDifference said:


> finn doesnt get cucked lol


well then bruh did they or did they not had to invent some ugly asian ass girl to preoccupy finn with so rey could safely crush on darth emo??

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Djomla said:


> Can anybody who saw the movie tell me is Luke badass as he is in Expanded Universe or is he a pussy?
> 
> Cause I ain't seeing it if it's the later one.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Luke is a bitch...thinks about killing his nephew is in his sleep over a vision (apparently Anakin never fucking told him not to trust visions)  but doesn't Kylo kills all his students so Luke runs off to island doesn't do shit while Snoke conquers the Galaxy. Then Luke grows a spine force projects to save what the last dozen resistance members? And dies of exhaustion, choses to ascend, heart attack, old age who the fucks knows....

...yes the only point of Rose was to shove Reylo down our throats.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 14, 2017)

maybe boyega can beg for some mercy to the mouse and hope they'll cast him in black panther 2

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Luke is a bitch



Think that's the part that made me the saddest, also the Finn & Rose parts felt (as well as the 'humor') really out of place compared to the rest of the movie.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

You hear the rumor KK wants ...she is stealing from Kevin not that it matters Taika wouldn't last 5 mins under KK she fire him immediately for not casting another white british brunette.

As for Luke shat the bed and didn't follow through.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 14, 2017)

this movie sounds terrible

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Djomla (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, man.

And what the actual fuck. Goddamn. Fucking Disney and fucking Johnson. Fuck them all to hell.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Suigetsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Disney already wrecked every past character except chewie, for nos.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 did anyone else tought Yoda looked dank as fuck? Smug little shitter.
It’s as if Ryan’s message was - fuck the past, destroy all the expanded universe books n shiet for the age of nuwars.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Watched.

I'm not gonna argue since I actually enjoyed the film and it seems I will be met with an overwhelming rejection majority but...


*Spoiler*: __ 



Luke does not sneak into the room to kill Kylo. Whoever told you that is lieing, or only read a couple lines of spoilers.

This is like a gray area where Luke and Kylo interpret things differently and they never get to talk after that.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Indra (Dec 14, 2017)

There's tons of spoilers on 4chan via webm and other spots for people who haven't seen the film. Like:


*Spoiler*: __ 





Yoda appearing
Kylo v Luke
Kylo and Rey




Anyway - spoilers-


*Spoiler*: __ 




Movie is hot trash. Reylo fan fiction that became canon.
Finn's treatment was enough to throw me off.
That asian girl was only here to make sure you can't ignore Reylo.
She has a hotter younger sister 
The fights were awful
Snoke died for no reason
Rey apparently is the strongest Jedi without any training
She's rey random
Luke's death was meaningless
Luke had almost 2 minutes of screen time where he milked blue space tits for a drink
Movie spends too much time not training Rey at all, which makes her later power influence even worse.
Rey is the final Jedi after spending less than a year with Luke
Yoda comes in to the movie, looks like absolute dog shit, to burn the Jedi temple with force lightning. Yoda says rey before he goes back to force Valhalla.
Rey equaled out Kylo again
Kylo killing Snoke for no reason is just a double sin
Leia uses the force, but again she looks absolutely retarded while doing so
Lightsabers battles are terrible.
Finn v. Plasma was terrible.

I'll add more later




TLDR review


*Spoiler*: __ 




Yeah it was hot garbage. This movie offered nothing to franchise, the whole 'let the past die' was just an excuse to ease butt hurt fans and to give new fans an argument to defend how shitty this movie was.

No character development at all. It's literally the opposite of the TFA, which was mediocre at its best, but at least it showed promise. TLJ did the exact opposite, and shat all over what-ever potential this franchise had left.

The actors did a better performance capturing their characters, but it's met equally with terrible dialogue and the story being just plain crap.

Rey beating Kylo was supposed to be a fluke because he was injured and apparently 'broken' after killing Han, but they fight in the movie again and Kylo can't even best her once. Mind you he has been training for years - and Rey has only trained with a lightsaber for less than a few months.

The entire spook about who her parents are turned out to be absolutely nothing, and what-ever leg room Rey had for being as powerful as she should have been, got erased. Solidifying her as the biggest on screen Mary Sue in the past decade. I mean you won't believe what she's capable of, she has no limitations and what-ever limits she does have, she destroys on her own.

I'm not getting into the relationship between Kylo Ren and Rey -Suewalker. It's not worth it, it's plain shit.

Finn and Rose's story line was arguably the worst. Too long, bad direction, and the climax fight against Plasma was omg. I've never seen a star wars film with such terrible fights before 

They aren't HOT ASS, but they aren't GOOD either. They hardly make any sense. I mean there's a small fight between Kylo and force projection Luke, and it might as well be the Matrix. There's literally a scene where time slow down just so Luke can duck backwards. Then Kylo holds his saber menacingly until he sticks his saber inside of Luke to find out that he's not even real. Dying here.

Poe surprised me the most at the 180. He turned out to be some cocky, break the rules kinda dude when he was more reliable and trustworthy in TFA. Forgettable the same.

Majority of the side characters are not interesting in this film whereas I felt that they had potential. It's really a continuation of the Skywalker saga where it's only about Jedi, but even then the Jedi are treated like shit.

Luke, and Yoda are just wtf. Whoever tells you that Luke's sacrificial scene was 'beautiful' is lying to you. Sure, it's bad-ass to an extent, but his death is unwarranted as fuck. His whole saga to be killed off just so Rey can continue HIS legacy. A NOBODY. WHO DIDN'T EVEN TRAIN. OMG WHO WROTE THIS?!

Pretty sure Kylo killing off Snoke means he'll get redeemed and fuck Rey in the next movie while Finn watches.

Gonna give this a solid 3/10

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 14, 2017)

Out today In the states, right? Too bad I have work man


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## Tony Lou (Dec 14, 2017)

Damn, what a massive backlash. I'll make sure to go in with low expectations.

But ignoring irrelevant stuff like plot and character development, are the fights still kool?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 14, 2017)

Luiz said:


> Damn, what a massive backlash. I'll make sure to go in with low expectations.
> 
> But ignoring irrelevant stuff like plot and character development, are the fights still kool?



expect nothing. Rey is using a gameshark with god mode on. she's level 1 with all the skills learned plus max stats 

kylo is level 99 but has base level 1 stats

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Tony Lou (Dec 14, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> expect nothing. Rey is using a gameshark with god mode on. she's level 1 with all the skills learned plus max stats
> 
> kylo is level 99 but has base level 1 stats



Nobody else fights?


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Ill be damned Disney has assembled the Infinity gauntlet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 14, 2017)

you don't like how Luke dies after casting a little mirage? or how force ghost Yoda metaphorically middle fingers the EU with force lightning?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Ill be damned Disney has assembled the Infinity gauntlet.


phase 4 X-universe 

...i don't even know what to think


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## Castiel (Dec 14, 2017)

Ill be honest... I kind of like a lot of this ON PAPER, like what it represents and how it looks like it'll force JJ to not just remake Return of the Jedi for ep 9

I mean, execution could kill it for me but you know

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 14, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> this movie sounds terrible



I wouldn't call it terrible, it's more disappointing if it'd lose the parts which I felt really didn't mach the tone of the A story (Luke-Rey-Kylo and the Force stuff). Also every fight is a disappointment as well.

*Spoiler*: __ 



 I felt really let down that we found out (besides being an OP Force-user) literally nothing about Snoke. Do you guys think that's really the end of him? Also may we see Force Ghost Luke?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Son Of Man (Dec 14, 2017)

Majority of critics seem to love the movie while hardcore Star Wars fans will probably hate it for killing their childhood. 
Will be interesting to see the backlash from fans. I can already see the flood of rant videos and online protests.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The World (Dec 14, 2017)

KK and Jar Jar need to be dealt with

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 14, 2017)

What's the point of rants? I doubt the makers of this would give much of a shit about what some fans being angry.
I didn't like the movie either and leaning more towards a hardcore fan but really doubt even our collective cries could change anything...
I mean what's done's done.

--edit

Shit, I just checked the RT for this... the idea of the Mouse paying for positive reviews is starting to seem more believable now.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> I wouldn't call it terrible, it's more disappointing if it'd lose the parts which I felt really didn't mach the tone of the A story (Luke-Rey-Kylo and the Force stuff). Also every fight is a disappointment as well.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



I've always thought Snoke was hack. Never bought him as the main villain. He doesn't have what it takes to carry a trilogy (like Palpatine). Episode VII might have sold him to me if I was born in the 80s when villains were obvious, but nowadays if you don't give your villain some major feats of either strength or dialogue in the first film, I will predict a twist coming.

Snoke dieing was not a surprise to me, and was a really good scene. The surprise was seeing Kylo double down on the empire thing afterwards. He reminds me of Anakin from Darths & Droids.

The writers played the Kylo thing because they knew everyone and their dog would come to the movie expecting him to turn good. So they pulled a double twist. They also played the Rey turn-evil thing through the trailer and most of the movie, until eventually revealing her as some type of Bakugou archetype that is fierce and selfish but ultimately heroic. They also played Luke getting a Obi Wan death then changing the way it happened. The whole film was a checklist of audience expectations and a convoluted series of subversions to them. I theorize that after the complaints of ep. VII being too much like IV, they decided to make the least predictable SW film ever.

I mostly liked the result, though I thought the Finn section was mega filler. Would have cut all of it and left him at the ship or sent him to Rey or smh. Though I liked Finn's character in the film overall. Dunno why people keep calling him a clown, he is like the most no-bullshit character in the cast. People around him want to be dumb and he keeps pushing business forward. It's like the writers are going out of the way to portray him as the voice of reason of the group, while Poe and Rey are the loose cannons.

Also thought Luke's death was unncessary, though it doesn't really affect Rey's training since after what Yoda said he is more or less confirmed to train her as a ghost in the next film. He just can't fight, perhaps to nerf the good guys and not let them have 2v1 against the Sith.

And I would respect the people saying the film ruined Luke's character if most of them actually knew the full story. As it stands, he did not actually have the intention to kill Kylo, and what he did makes sense if you consider him as a human who can have flaws. Maybe watch the full movie before bashing it for things that are not in it.




Anyway, good film overall. Has flaws but is way more memorable or entertaining than ep. VII, which is just fanservice. Would have changed some things but I appreciate the writers having balls to put twists in one of the most formulaic film franchises of today. I'm getting IM3 vibes here, where I loved the film but most people hated it for not being loyal enough to the source material or something like that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> What's the point of rants? I doubt the makers of this would give much of a shit about what some fans being angry.
> I didn't like the movie either and leaning more towards a hardcore fan but really doubt even our collective cries could change anything...
> I mean what's done's done.
> 
> ...



I'm starting to think there is some disconnect between hardcore SW fanboys (most of the people who post about it in the internet ) and general audience (which includes most critics).

I'm mostly interested in seeing RT's audience score.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 14, 2017)

Castiel said:


> Ill be honest... I kind of like a lot of this ON PAPER, like what it represents and how it looks like it'll force JJ to not just remake Return of the Jedi for ep 9


JJ Binks certainly has his work cut out for him...but I'm sure he'll have a studio exec or 2 on his shoulders at all times.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> What's the point of rants? I doubt the makers of this would give much of a shit about what some fans being angry.
> I didn't like the movie either and leaning more towards a hardcore fan but really doubt even our collective cries could change anything...
> I mean what's done's done.
> 
> ...



Currently tied with Empire Strikes Back as the highest rated SW film in history.

VIII - 94%
V - 94%
IV - 93%
VII - 93%
Rogue One - 85%
VI - 80%
III - 79%
II - 66%
I - 55%


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## Suigetsu (Dec 14, 2017)

SonOfMan said:


> Majority of critics seem to love the movie while hardcore Star Wars fans will probably hate it for killing their childhood.
> Will be interesting to see the backlash from fans. I can already see the flood of rant videos and online protests.


They where bought and paid for.

Still there are some hardcore SW fans that will defend this and love it. I have a friend like that, he loved the movie and yet he dislikes the prequels. These poeple are band waggoners.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## mcpon14 (Dec 14, 2017)

Is it worth the watch if you are a casual fan of the series?  I'm debating on whether to watch it theaters or wait for it to come out for rentals.


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 14, 2017)

Yes.


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## Gabe (Dec 14, 2017)

Seeing it tonight going by the spoilers I read it should be interesting to see how polarizing it is.


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## Aeternus (Dec 14, 2017)

Just got back from watching it. Man, it has been a while since the last time I saw that many people in the movies. Hell, people were even applauding during parts of it.
Anyway, have to say that the movie was better than expected actually. Sure, it had its number of issues, which I will write about tomorrow because I am on my phone rifght now and spoiler tagging can be rather tricky but I think it was at least better than the TFA. Tbh, at first can't say I would like it a lot but the final act sure made things better. I don't know if this expression but it is a bit of a slow burner. It took a while to get to the good stuff.As a more casual viewer, can't say I was that bothered by some things that happened but I can understand why some might not like them.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 14, 2017)

Luke was described as a near godlike figure in the new canon Disney put together...able to take on entire armies by himself.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Now, he's done after an image projection? I understand they wanted to erase the old EU entirely, but _this is their own new canon_

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You care more about power levels than anyone at Disney.

There is no consistency here. Anyone can beat anyone if the plot demands.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

I like the idea that the power level ceiling isn't too high that any master can curbstomp a mid level padawan with little effort.

Like, Anakin in III actually beats Mace Windu when Windu should be much more experienced.


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I like the idea that the power level ceiling isn't too high that any master can curbstomp a mid level padawan with little effort.
> 
> Like, Anakin in III actually beats Mace Windu when Windu should be much more experienced.



Did u even watch that movie? Anakin beats Mace Windu with a sneak attack. In the fair fight against Obi-wan, Anakin loses precisely because why he may have more power....Kenobi has more experience and is smarter.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 14, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I like the idea that the power level ceiling isn't too high that any master can curbstomp a mid level padawan with little effort.
> 
> Like, Anakin in III actually beats Mace Windu when Windu should be much more experienced.


he didn't "beat" Mace Windu tho..he sliced his hand when Mace wasnt even paying attention to him.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 14, 2017)

Fang said:


> He was never a "godlike figure" until TCW came around and gave us The Ones, literal embodiments of the Force and the Chosen One and his son by proxy having to be as powerful as them to keep the light and dark sides in balance.
> 
> Everything in late EU/Legends/pre-Disney Star Wars was about the fact that following the late Post-Episode VI story, Luke ends up being so powerful that half the time at least the authors and writers were making it so Luke doesn't curbstomp the new big bad and has to spend half the story doing other important shit. The two last hurdles he had to deal with was the Mother/Abeloth, another embodiment of the dark side and part of The Ones, and before that non-retard Kylo Ren aka Darth Caedus aka Jacen Solo, who turned to being a Sith Lord.
> 
> At least in the old canon, Luke got shit done and didn't get his character and motivations assassinated like what these Nu Disney films have done.


But Fang

It's time for the jedi to end

I've seen this power once before and it didn't scare me then
It does now

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Also I am sorry yes any fucking Master should curbstomp a Padawan. A Padawan is by definition a novice who doesnt know shit...this would be the equivalent of any fucking genin in Naruto being able to beat a fucking Jounin. Actually Mace and Kenobi are on the Jedi Council which puts them more on the level of Kage Class then it does standard Jounin. So it be even worse.

Like really how do I take Kylo seriously as a threat when Rey is on his level in 10 days that it took him what 10 years to reach? I mean there is being a prodigy and then there is straight BS.

Naruto Actually Works Pretty 1 to 1
*Academy Student = Jedi Youngling
Genin = Padawan
Chuunin = Jedi Knight 
Jounin = Jedi Master
Kage = Jedi Grand Master*

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Indra (Dec 14, 2017)

The way 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Luke dies


 solidifies this movie as terrible.

Like if you want to do shit like this, then do it in a way that glorifies what the character has done up until now. 

But they treat their characters in such a disposal manner, that I can't look forward to the next movie.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 14, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I like the idea that the power level ceiling isn't too high that any master can curbstomp a mid level padawan with little effort.


lmao get outta here fam. a master(this counts for all categories and crafts doesn't matter what) that can't curbstomp a novice is simply not a master.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 14, 2017)

Ok i'm not even gonna argue back the fact is that I couldn't give a flying fuck about power levels. I've spent years in this forum arguing they didn't matter in One Piece so I'm not gonna argue Star Wars of all things.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2017)

Just saw the film, It was good.  Luke was a grumpy old man lol


*Spoiler*: __ 



I had a feeling Luke was going to become one with the force, though I thought it was going to be in the next movie.  Same with Snoke dying.

They toned down the all-powerfulness of Rey and even made her just a daughter of nobodies.  I like that.  And toned up Kylo Ren.  We even got a force choke!

Rey got cucked by Finn, but I think they'll end up together.  Awkward drama should be good.

Alot of swearing in this movie for Star Wars huh?  Seemed out of place.

How the hell are Hux and Phasma still alive?


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## Detective (Dec 14, 2017)

This is not the movie you were looking for.

_*hand wave*_


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2017)

This movie is going to be the highest grossing of the decade if Infinity War doesn't knock it off.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> The way
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



The way he gets scolded and then told that all they needed was Rey was like:
Fuck your expanded universe and your books and shiet, Rey is all you need.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Dec 14, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> The way he gets scolded and then told that all they needed was Rey was like:
> Fuck your expanded universe and your books and shiet, Rey is all you need.


It's absolutely terrible man. Like I get it, they needed to shoehorn Rey into the plot this hard for continuation purposes. Future Jedi movies on the way from via Rey training off screen 

But just the audacity to do what needed to be done, in that way? What a giant middle finger to the actual fans. This name is going to go down, really down after this. Star wars will keep pumping out movies like the the Han Solo, Obi-Wan, and future films like clockwork. But it won't be up to par.

Funny enough since Rey has become the new not acclaimed chosen one of the series, kinda ironic that Daisy Ridley's contract ends after the next film. Kinda sad that the Main Character of the 'Sky walker saga' has no background, didn't work for any of her powers, and has no connection to the lore outside of being really strong in the force 'because'.

I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks within the next decade or so, Mark Hamill will come out and officially say this was a mistake to his character and the franchise.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Glued (Dec 14, 2017)

Did any aliens or droids play important roles in the movie? Or was it all just humans?


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Did any aliens or droids play important roles in the movie? Or was it all just humans?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Humans. Although a certain green alien does something I guess and so does BB-8


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## Glued (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Humans. Although a certain green alien does something I guess and so does BB-8



Like another Yoda?


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## Skaddix (Dec 14, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



No not another Yoda.....lol the actual Yoda shows up.


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## Glued (Dec 14, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> No not another Yoda.....lol the actual Yoda shows up.



Ummm...why?

Does he know anything about Snoke or Rey?


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Ummm...why?
> 
> Does he know anything about Snoke or Rey?


Offers some much needed advice, Same as everytime he shows up.


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## Rukia (Dec 14, 2017)

That’s fucking stupid Skaddix.


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## Gabe (Dec 14, 2017)

Just saw the movie it was pack. I bought the fan pack. Twice the price of the ticket. We were suppose to get a surprise and We got big Star Wars cards and the director and John Williams spoke before the movie. It was a short behind the scenes of Williams creating the music for Star Wars. It was kinda cool. People were complaining because they expected more.

The movie was ok not greater then episode 5 as stated by reviewers.


*Spoiler*: _Spoiler_ 



sucks how skywalker went out. Died because he projected himself through the force. Dumb also gods looked weird as hell and the lea flying through space like Superman or somthing felt weird. Snoke died to easy, all the hype for nothing. When kylo used the force to use Vader’s lightsaber to kill snoke the theater went wild thinking he had listen to Rey and gone back to th last got side. But that was not the case. Action was good the space battles were a good part. This movie felt hollow. I do not feel the same excitement and happiness I did after I saw the force awakens.


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2017)

Gabe said:


> Just saw the movie it was pack. I bought the fan pack. Twice the price of the ticket. We were suppose to get a surprise and We got big Star Wars cards and the director and John Williams spoke before the movie. It was a short behind the scenes of Williams creating the music for Star Wars. It was kinda cool. People were complaining because they expected more.
> 
> The movie was ok not greater then episode 5 as stated by reviewers.
> 
> ...


I fucking dropped my card and forgot because of the annoying little girl who kept getting up next to me.


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## Rukia (Dec 14, 2017)

The Greatest Showman is looking fucking great guys!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Indra (Dec 14, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __


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## Suigetsu (Dec 14, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Ummm...why?
> 
> Does he know anything about Snoke or Rey?


Just browse for the rip cam scene on 4chan dude.


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## LegendarySaiyan (Dec 15, 2017)

I still have not watched it, I heard from many that it is a great movie? The best SW movie I heard from some, true?

Is it online? If so please PM me a link, thanks in advance. I want to watch it in the cinema, 4dx, but non of my friends who like SW do not have the time because of Christmas Stress.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

@LegendarySaiyan 
The Consensus of This Naruto Forum is its Shit... 

There is a script floating around and if you want 4chan has clips as well. 

I dont think the full movie has leaked yet though.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## LegendarySaiyan (Dec 15, 2017)

@Skaddix 
Hmm, found a leaked CAM recorded full video of the movie, but it is in Spanish and I can't Spanish.

Nah, I rather wait for a leaked English version instead of reading the script or watching few minutes of clips


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## Thespacelord (Dec 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks within the next decade or so, Mark Hamill will come out and officially say this was a mistake to his character and the franchise.


He already kind of said it, maybe not as bluntly as he probably truly feels.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

LegendarySaiyan said:


> @Skaddix
> Hmm, found a leaked CAM recorded full video of the movie, but it is in Spanish and I can't Spanish.
> 
> Nah, I rather wait for a leaked English version instead of reading the script or watching few minutes of clips



Well when I said none I assumed u wanted an English version not a Spanish version lol


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## LegendarySaiyan (Dec 15, 2017)

@Skaddix , hehe of course I want it in English lol xD, might as well just wait for Christmas to be over so I can watch it together with my friends. If I find any leaked one before that, I will just watch it.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

LegendarySaiyan said:


> I want to watch it in the cinema, 4dx, but non of my friends who like SW do not have the time because of Christmas Stress.


Then see it alone?  Easier to get a seat that way anyhow.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

they should've just jumped ahead 100 years into the future with an all new story/plot. 

then they could've left the anthology movies to Luke, Han/Lando and Leia post RotJ and how they dealt with the imperial remnant.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Legend (Dec 15, 2017)

Just finished it a few mins ago. Im really conflicted about it. I liked it alot but there is something.....


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

$45 mil in one night


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> they should've just jumped ahead 100 years into the future with an all new story/plot.
> 
> then they could've left the anthology movies to Luke, Han/Lando and Leia post RotJ and how they dealt with the imperial remnant.



Yeah Star Wars Legacy did it better except the end but they had to rush thanks to Lucas selling to Disney.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> they should've just jumped ahead 100 years into the future with an all new story/plot.
> 
> then they could've left the anthology movies to Luke, Han/Lando and Leia post RotJ and how they dealt with the imperial remnant.


Maybe that's next. I don't see them ending with the next movie.


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## Aeternus (Dec 15, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Maybe that's next. I don't see them ending with the next movie.


Wouldn't be surprised. They need to milk the franchise some more somehow. Although tbh maybe a new start isn't that bad of an idea...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LegendarySaiyan (Dec 15, 2017)

I wish they made the "Old Republic" as a movie [trilogy] or a high budget TV show just like Game of Thrones, maybe higher budget! I agree that Star Wars should move on from movies timeline into another timeline, either the past or the distant future with a new start.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __


If it wasn't because the CGI was goddamn atrocious for this scene, it would have been perfect. I loved when they show stuff like this in the movies instead of reserving it for comic books, novels and video games. It also was an awesome moment for Leia.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Gotta say the writing in this movie is all over the place. It's an uneven mess, like a bunch of screenwriters brainstormed the entire thing and then decided to throw every single thing they said during that session into the film. It's like an arrow rain that hopes to hit the target.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

I still thoroughly enjoyed the film however.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

btw the "Force Skype" between Rey and Kylo has precedent; it was done between Vader, Luke and to a lesser extent Leia at the end of ESB.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

LegendarySaiyan said:


> I still have not watched it, I heard from many that it is a great movie? The best SW movie I heard from some, true?
> 
> Is it online? If so please PM me a link, thanks in advance. I want to watch it in the cinema, 4dx, but non of my friends who like SW do not have the time because of Christmas Stress.


It's a highly enjoyable film but it's not the best. It's pacing is excellent and the action sequences are some of the best ever but the plot is all over the place.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> btw the "Force Skype" between Rey and Kylo has precedent; it was done between Vader, Luke and to a lesser extent Leia at the end of ESB.


Don't know why some people have trouble with that. I can understand some of the more OP powers, but this one was tame and with precedent. I mean, Obi-Wan communicated with Luke in a very similar fashion since ANH.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Holy Hell the salty backlash in this thread


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 15, 2017)

I'll have my review finished later, but I enjoyed it. Like in TFA my audience clapped multiple times, a success.



~VK~ said:


> well then bruh did they or did they not had to invent some ugly asian ass girl to preoccupy finn with so rey could safely crush on darth emo??



No to everything.



mcpon14 said:


> Is it worth the watch if you are a casual fan of the series?  I'm debating on whether to watch it theaters or wait for it to come out for rentals.



Yes it is. You are missing a cool experience specially now when it is just out. Seeing it later when the hypes settles could affect your investment too IMO.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 15, 2017)

Another year another Star Wars movie that is officially out.


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## Aeternus (Dec 15, 2017)

Anyway, now that I can spoiler tag:


*Spoiler*: __ 




[*]Kylo Ren for Final Villain? Yeah, not sure anyone is buying that. He is not FV material. Maybe FV's right hand or something. He just doesn't have it. That said, I have to say that he was more bearable in this movie than in the TFA. Less whiney I suppose.
[*]Snoke. Man, what a waste of a potentially good villain. Minimal presence in the previous movie and not that much in this one here either. Not to mention that almost all his scenes were Kylo-centric, we never got to learn anything about him, his backstory, how he plays into all this stuff, how he corrupted Kylo and given how old he looked, if he had something to do with events that happened in the previous trilogies. Unless there are extensive flashback scenes in the next movie detailing a lot of these stuff, this is just a waste.
[*]Rose's, Dameron's and Finn's sub-plot. At the end, it was all just pointless. I understand that they wanted to make these characters somehow relevant but even if they hadn't done all these, not a lot of things would have been different at the end. Maybe things would have been even better since Del Toro's character (btw did they ever name him or did I just miss that) wouldn't have betrayed them and a lot more people would have escaped at the mineral planet.
[*]Holdo. Sure she sacrificed herself at the end so that the others could escape (and her lightspeed jumping into the enemy fleet was an amazing scene) but her unwillingness to share her strategy with the others coupled with Po's hotheadedness could have lead to a lot more casualties hadn't Leia woken up from her coma.
[*]Had no idea Leia had Force abilities. I admit it has been a while since I last watched any of the original trilogy but I don't remember anything like this.
[*]Would have liked to see more of what Luke could do with the Force and I was a bit disappointed in this front but the way he "trolled" Kylo was just so funny. 
[*]Was a bit surprised that Rey wasn't a Skywalker, Kenobi or something like this but I guess that this make sense thematically with her character. 
[*]The vulptices were amazing. I want one  The porgs were ok but had some rather funny scenes.
[*]The humour was mostly good but some of it felt a bit forced and intrusive.



Can't think of anything else at the moment.

Reactions: Like 1


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## mcpon14 (Dec 15, 2017)

@Sennin of Hardwork Thanks.


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## Rasendori (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 




WHAT A WASTE OF POTENTIAL!!!
the writers have had years to write Luke, the strongest Jedi to ever live, a force light saber fight for the ages. The troll was fun, but ultimately disappointing. I wanted to see Luke fuuuuck shit up.

Otherwise the film was ok. I laughed, I love Yoda, and snoke was a complete waste.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

Just watched it. Movie was pure wasted potential and needed severe editing (understatement of the year)

-Finn/Rose subplot was the worst filler ever put into a star wars film. Del Toro was wasted.

-Poe did nothing but fuck up; but at least he looked somewhat cool doing it.

-Luke was wasted; the less said about him the better.

-Snoke was wasted...but nothing lost tbh; turns out he was just an overconfident prick.

-Holdo and BB-8 practically carried the resistance despite the overabundance of incompetent fucks they have in their ranks. Tbh it shoulda been Leia's final moment instead of Holdo's considering RL events.

-Movie essentially was overly bloated and the only thing of relevance was Kylo and Rey's ascensions as basically chosen ones of the light and dark side.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Magic (Dec 15, 2017)

Just saw it, loved it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Magic (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Just watched it. Movie was pure wasted potential and needed severe editing (understatement of the year)
> 
> -Finn/Rose subplot was the worst filler ever put into a star wars film. Del Toro was wasted.
> 
> ...


Del Toro probably one of my favorite characters in the film. He better reappear and help out in the future.


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## Indra (Dec 15, 2017)

Thespacelord said:


> He already kind of said it, maybe not as bluntly as he probably truly feels.


Yeah I heard about these. Surprised he didn't just outright say the writing was trash, and that his character deserved better.

It should be incoming tho

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 15, 2017)

RemChu said:


> Del Toro probably one of my favorite characters in the film. He better reappear and help out in the future.


He was among the most interesting characters in the film, that's for sure. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Thought he might betray Phasma and the others and help Finn and Rose escape but didn't.


 I wouldn't mind him appearing again.


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## Magic (Dec 15, 2017)

What little screen time he had, he stole it.


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> -Finn/Rose subplot was the worst filler ever put into a star wars film. Del Toro was wasted.



Why considering it as filler? I think it was the best part of the movie and for a very simple reason: it finally showed the context of the galaxy.
My major problem with TFA was the absence of context, what were people doing, what were they thinking, why the galaxy didnt react after the fall of the Emperor.
Turns out nobody fucking cared, rich people just enjoy their lives, the poors are still under leash. How pointless is the fight of the Resistance? Even after the horrors and the liberation from the Emperor, the Republic couldn't settle because nobody cared about it.

Finn and Rose had a very Star Wars-like quest, which allowed for their characters to be developed and to show a part of the Galaxy to the viewer.

*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah their quest failed, but wasn't it fresh? If their mission was a success it would have mirrored too much the sabotages done in the previous installments.


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## Indra (Dec 15, 2017)

So it begins

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Well it wasnt just dreams, he said he sensed the kid to be too much corrupted. Sure I agree that he had to deal with much greater corruption with Vader soul but Luke was way younger, irresponsible and naive.
People change, the Force is a really nasty bit to deal with. And Luke didn't have experience into a field where people like Yoda and Obi Wan had failed before him.
I don't think that moment of weakness from Luke was too much farfetcheted.
If anything, I think Kylo was gone too, he should have cut the kid down. That moment of hesitation fucked him up, but that was very Jedi-like.

I am not saying it was the best idea ever, but considering the state after TFA, where they didnt explain shit, I was already happy enough that they had given me some backstory.
Fuck JJ, but I think Rian Jonhson did a decent job to put the story back on its feet.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> It's absolutely terrible man. Like I get it, they needed to shoehorn Rey into the plot this hard for continuation purposes. Future Jedi movies on the way from via Rey training off screen
> 
> But just the audacity to do what needed to be done, in that way? What a giant middle finger to the actual fans. This name is going to go down, really down after this. Star wars will keep pumping out movies like the the Han Solo, Obi-Wan, and future films like clockwork. But it won't be up to par.
> 
> ...



Wait you wanted her to be a Skywalker?


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> Why considering it as filler? I think it was the best part of the movie and for a very simple reason: it finally showed the context of the galaxy.
> My major problem with TFA was the absence of context, what were people doing, what were they thinking, why the galaxy didnt react after the fall of the Emperor.
> Turns out nobody fucking cared, rich people just enjoy their lives, the poors are still under leash. How pointless is the fight of the Resistance? Even after the horrors and the liberation from the Emperor, the Republic couldn't settle because nobody cared about it.
> 
> ...


When you put it this way, it's actually pretty interesting. Too bad the whole subplot is still mediocre at best with a racist caricature of a character that is basically the way Tumblr SJWs see East Asian women.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 15, 2017)

LegendarySaiyan said:


> I still have not watched it, I heard from many that it is a great movie? The best SW movie I heard from some, true?
> 
> Is it online? If so please PM me a link, thanks in advance. I want to watch it in the cinema, 4dx, but non of my friends who like SW do not have the time because of Christmas Stress.



The general audience likes it and the SW fandom hates it.

How much you like it should be inversely proportional to how much of a shit you gave about SW before.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> So it begins


This is relevant to my interests.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The general audience likes it and the SW fandom hates it.
> 
> How much you like it should be inversely proportional to how much of a shit you gave about SW before.


I don't know. The prequels were also hated by many die hard fans who knew their EU very well. Admittedly though, probably not this much. To give you an idea, a lot of EU die hard fans love Maul a lot, while I haven't found EU die hards who actually like Rey.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> I don't know. The prequels were also hated by many die hard fans who knew their EU very well. Admittedly though, probably not this much. To give you an idea, a lot of EU die hard fans love Maul a lot, while I haven't found EU die hards who actually like Rey.



Well I agree with them on those. Maul is cool. Ray is somewhat forced of a character.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 15, 2017)

Kylo Ren’s only redemption is if he would change his name back to Ben Will Solo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Yeah, "Kylo" is such a stupid name I don't know how the hell it was accepted. Still, gotta admit I've grown fond of that bastard, especially after this film.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

It's already down at 68% in audience score in RT. Daaammnn that blacklash


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

93% with critics but 68% with audience. something is not adding up

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

i may have to eat crow and apologise to butthurt DC fans. the mouse buying off reviews doesn't really seem like a ludicrous idea anymore

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> i may have to eat crow and apologise to butthurt DC fans. the mouse buying off reviews doesn't really seem like a ludicrous idea anymore


Seeing how they are successfully buying Fox assets, buying critics seems tame tbh


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Seeing how they are successfully buying Fox assets, buying critics seems tame tbh


the mouse doesn't play around


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> When you put it this way, it's actually pretty interesting. Too bad the whole subplot is still mediocre at best with a racist caricature of a character that is basically the way Tumblr SJWs see East Asian women.



What was racist? She is an engineer\mechanic who decides to put her life on the line to save others.
I liked Rose, I think she was cute and strong.
My version of the movie was dubbed into my language tho, I dunno what inflection of the voice she might have used to be a caricature.
And Finn is basically the next Han Solo. So I really don't get it.

But I don't understand what people were expecting from Luke either. He is not Revan, he is a full Jedi with the usual perks and flaws.  And Luke had the best scene a Jedi or Force user ever had in a Star Wars movie.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 15, 2017)

better then force awakens i will say that at least

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 15, 2017)

Well looks like the audience hates the movie 
Its a well crafted movie but its full of shit that fans will not abide under any circumstances

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 15, 2017)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> What was racist? She is an engineer\mechanic who decides to put her life on the line to save others.
> I liked Rose, I think she was cute and strong.
> My version of the movie was dubbed into my language tho, I dunno what inflection of the voice she might have used to be a caricature.
> And Finn is basically the next Han Solo. So I really don't get it.
> ...



Mine wasn't dubbed. Rose's voice was fine. The problem is that this is Konoha Threate where people spend half their time fapping to actresses, and Rose wasn't fapping material.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 15, 2017)

Rose was meh 
Her sister was more interesting and she actually seemed like a good actress
They should have had them switch places 

Also now that lightspeed ramming is a thing in star wars. Why didn't anyone just lightspeed ram the death star or starkiller base if its now established that doing that creates a huge explosion

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

overall audience ultimate reaction will be the box office IMO


RT audience score could just be SWEU fans mass-downvoting

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Whatever rocks your boat.
> 
> Meanwhile I'll be here enjoying things and not being unhappy because someone broke my imaginary tier list.


lmao "you only care about tiers!!!" ok bro

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

Weiss said:


> overall audience ultimate reaction will be the box office IMO
> 
> 
> RT audience score could just be SWEU fans mass-downvoting


what's that even suppose to mean? if even if this was the worst movie in cinematic history it would still be a box office hit. it's star wars

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jotun (Dec 15, 2017)

Movie is ok if you judge it by itself. Lot of Marvel humor and Shyamalan esque forced twists/deaths to make it seem fresh. The fact that a certain character doesn't die is hilarious. 

As a Star Wars film, it throws away all of the lore. This is a set up for the new trilogy, Rey and Kylo are confirmed not to be present in the new trilogy. This movie absolutely shits on Luke and the Jedi lore. There is a severe disconnect with the writing. It feels like they had a plan with TFA, but just started changing shit with this movie. 

Knights of Ren????
Snoke???
Rey???

Rian Johnson is an edgelord. He will be writing and directing the first movie of the new trilogy. Most likely Exec Producer/Creative for the rest of the new trilogy.

Disgusting

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> what's that even suppose to mean? if even if this was the worst movie in cinematic history it would still be a box office hit. it's star wars


Just a hit =/= 2B+ tho


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> what's that even suppose to mean? if even if this was the worst movie in cinematic history it would still be a box office hit. it's star wars



He's dumb. No one thinks this is due to old canon fan or diehards doing this, plenty of people are however bashing it TLJ on the net for its treatment of Luke, which is probably why the user scores and ratings for it are a lot more divisive then TFA's on RT.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Just a hit =/= 2B+ tho


lol this won't make 2B. the last one did so because there was a decade of built up plus people were hopeful it was gonna be better than the prequels with lucas gone.


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Jotun said:


> Movie is ok if you judge it by itself. Lot of Marvel humor and Shyamalan esque forced twists/deaths to make it seem fresh. The fact that a certain character doesn't die is hilarious.
> 
> As a Star Wars film, it throws away all of the lore. This is a set up for the new trilogy, Rey and Kylo are confirmed not to be present in the new trilogy. This movie absolutely shits on Luke and the Jedi lore. There is a severe disconnect with the writing. It feels like they had a plan with TFA, but just started changing shit with this movie.
> 
> ...



Tbh I did have hope Rian would do better than JJ but TLJ makes TFA look like the Godfather Part 1. Looper was always kind of mediocre and this guy being pulled in for his shit with Breaking Bad in hindsight is hilarious now thinking about it. It was either due to Rian not giving two shits or Kathleen Kennedy and suits from Disney either turning him into a spineless yes man pushing for these changes or him simply not caring which is why Snoke went the way of the bitch, the Knights of Ren are ignored, Rey being a literal nobody whose strength now makes even fucking less sense, and so on.

Biggest other disappointments to me was Finn doing fucking nothing, his quest being pointless, Ackbar being killed off-screen, an entire galaxy spanning organization like the NOT-New Republic dying from a few planets being blown up in TFA and the First Order literally inverting the galactic power struggle from a splinter/Imperial remnant group to being the new empire all over again while it retreated TESB made me feel sick. I had no emotional investment throughout this film at all.

Any plot points foreshadowed in Episode VII were completely ignored.

And then that god awful scene of Leia flying like Superman.

Christ.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

1.5+ B then


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Matta Clatta said:


> Why didn't anyone just lightspeed ram the death star or starkiller base if its now established that doing that creates a huge explosion


I think you forget how big they actually were.  It wouldn't have destroyed them.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

Weiss said:


> 1.5+ B then


jurassic world numbers seem to be right. maybe even a bit less. kinda fitting tbh.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> 93% with critics but 68% with audience. something is not adding up


Nerds are mad.:WOW


Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Whatever rocks your boat.


You mean "floats your boat"?


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_five_live

>admits to not planning shit out
>admits to not test screening anything
>admits to no storyboards
>admits to not planning out for events in the future works
>praises Abrams

Oh Rian.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

audience score is down to 62% btw

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Yeah I don't see Rian ever being brought by Disney after this.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

nah he's in charge of the new trilogy

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> audience score is down to 62% btw


Tbh, while I think it is ok for this movie, based on what I saw in the theatre, people seemed to like it quite a lot.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

what really bothers me about this movie is how meaningless it all feels by the end...

it left me feeling empty; like i just watched an average episode of a show i neither love nor hate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> nah he's in charge of the new trilogy


Ib4 it gets cancelled.

Looper sucked but this flick sucks even more. This just goes to show how low the bar has gone when it comes to people’s entertainment.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

i remember reading about how Mark Hamill had to rest an entire day before shooting an action intensive scene...

and now i'm like "_what fucking scene was that bruh?_"

Reactions: Funny 5


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 15, 2017)

Damn that audience score


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## Suigetsu (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> i remember reading about how Mark Hamill had to rest an entire day before shooting an action intensive scene...
> 
> and now i'm like "_what fucking scene was that bruh?_"


Have you seen him after he saw the movie. He was on the verge of tears, they shattered his character. I hope and wish he could do other movies that are not starwars related.

Lucas really fucked him, he should have given something in the contract to allow him a say if he was not satisfied with the story. He sold his trust to a lizard people corporation.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Djomla (Dec 15, 2017)

I would pay like a thousand bucks just for a chance to slap Rian Johnson right in the face for ruining Luke and SW lore.

God how I hope he gets fired from doing this new triology or whatever bullshit Disney is planning.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

you save the galaxy and redeem one of the worst villains in the universe...and this is how they reward you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Audience score already at 59%. At this point I expect a lot of boycotting petitions


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Saw this yesterday. Better than Force Awakens for sure, but...


*Spoiler*: __ 




What a missed opportunity at the end. I know that they want Luke to parallel Obi-Wan and in general that was a smart play by Luke, but they should have had Kylo kill him regardless. Kylo already has an amazing body count. Adding Luke to that would easily put him on Darth's level if not surpass that. But Kylo still has amazing cred. I am actually happy they went with that.





*Spoiler*: __ 




Also... Ghost Yoda can summon lightning bolts? Why the fuck are the Jedi always in cornered situations if their dead can achieve such feats?  

EDIT: Oh yeah I also forgot about Leia flying through space. Seriously, Jedi powers have to be the most inconsistent to popular ratio aspect of the series.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

"STAR WARS 8 filmmakers revealed more bad news about deleted scenes and extended cut hopes for the Blu-ray after the movie is blasted by diehard fans unhappy with Disney and Rian Johnson's vision."

And yeah, the film had a lot of missing scenes. This is obvious when, for instance, Rey was suddenly on the side of Chewie in the Millennium Falcon after Holdo destroys much of Snoke's fleet when at no point do we see Chewie picking her up.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Also... Ghost Yoda can summon lightning bolts? Why the fuck are the Jedi always in cornered situations if their dead can achieve such feats?


that whole scene was just a metaphorical "fuck you" to everyone who held the EU and the OT in high regard.

That tree, those books, represented the past they've been dying to burn away.

And I wouldn't have the slightest bit of an issue moving on beyond Jedi and Sith...if what they've set up doesn't feel so hackneyed.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> "STAR WARS 8 filmmakers revealed more bad news about deleted scenes and extended cut hopes for the Blu-ray after the movie is blasted by diehard fans unhappy with Disney and Rian Johnson's vision."
> 
> And yeah, the film had a lot of missing scenes. This is obvious when, for instance, Rey was suddenly on the side of Chewie in the Millennium Falcon after Holdo destroys much of Snoke's fleet when at no point do we see Chewie picking her up.


jesus christ this is such a DCEU move

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Here is more:


Didn't expect this reaction about Snoke to be honest. He was a Palpatine rip off, in the same way Kylo is a poor rip off of Anakin in personality and Revan in design, and for that reason I never cared all that much about him.


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## Suigetsu (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> you save the galaxy and redeem one of the worst villains in the universe...and this is how they reward you.


I think it would hve been better if all the skywalker family had joined the dark side at this point. :/

I really did not like TFA but this was set on fucking the people that didnt like TFA. Folks that called it being a copy paste and a disney cashgrab. By saying fuck you you dont matter old fans. Rey is what you need, Rey is the force!
Also how come no one has discussed this:
*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> but a lot of viewers liked it.


They did?


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> They did?


The backlash against critics was so big there was even an attempt at boycotting Rotten Tomatoes.


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Saw it, was shit all the critics are full of shit and disney shills.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Magic (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> When you put it this way, it's actually pretty interesting. Too bad the whole subplot is still mediocre at best with a racist caricature of a character that is basically the way Tumblr SJWs see East Asian women.


it's racist?
But yeah I saw it as um, large asian audience in the world, so put an asian main character. Nothing er wrong with that. Just wish they were more interesting.


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## Thespacelord (Dec 15, 2017)

58%

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I think the worst thing about Snoke is that he fell for the typical "all powerful evil guy underestimating of good/conflicted guys" trope. How do you still pull shit like that in 2017 ffs.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

Thespacelord said:


> 58%


creeping up on Phantom Menace levels


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

RemChu said:


> it's racist?
> But yeah I saw it as um, large asian audience in the world, so put an asian main character. Nothing er wrong with that. Just wish they were more interesting.


I don't have a problem with her being Asian. I have a problem with her looking like how Tumblr looks at Asians. Also, I thought for a moment that Rose's sister who was killed was  which really ticked me off. Thank God it was not but I'm still ticked off that the sole female pilot who participated with Poe in destroying Starkiller Base doesn't even appear in this film. She has potential in my opinion.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Also I already hated Rey from TFA. So whatever forced Jesus Superman shit she pulled off this movie barely triggered anything in me.

Also, the Maz scene looked interesting. Wish we could've seen that.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Thespacelord said:


> 58%



There its boy proof critics are bought and paid for by the House of Mouse.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I think the worst thing about Snoke is that he fell for the typical "all powerful evil guy underestimating of good/conflicted guys" trope. How do you still pull shit like that in 2017 ffs.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Not to mention he specifically said Kylo was Conflicted multiple times and knows what a Skywalker (Vader) did to that last Dark Lord so it makes the fuck up even worse....at least Vader was lying on the ground the last time Palps checked. Oh and Vader walked up grabbed Palps unlike Kylo who was using the Force...so what Force Users cant sense other Force Users using the Force anymore?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> There its boy proof critics are bought and paid for by the House of Mouse.



Ofcourse they are, critics these days are bought and paid for.
Also finally found it!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> Ofcourse they are, critics these days are bought and paid for.
> Also finally found it!


Already Ninja'd


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



I mean, I love that Leia used the Force, but the CGI in that scene is atrocious. Couldn't they just have her survive and then cut to her arriving at the ship without showing us her flying like Superman?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aduro (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I think the worst thing about Snoke is that he fell for the typical "all powerful evil guy underestimating of good/conflicted guys" trope. How do you still pull shit like that in 2017 ffs.



*Spoiler*: __ 




The worst part was that they fucking zoomed in on Luke's old lightsaber while Snoke was explaining that Ren was going to kill him. Way to fucking obvious a trick. Then again the editing in this film was a shit show in general. Who even uses screen wipes anymore?
But yeah all that hype for Snoke and there's nothing behind the smoke and mirrors. Just a generic fantasy villain in a sparkly dressing gown. Total waste of Andy Serkis. I don't even know why the hell Ren or Snoke wanted to be on the dark side in the first place.

Also Kylo Ren is a fucking moron. He didn't even notice that Luke had the lightsaber that he'd broken in a game of tug of war with Ray. Between this and The Force Awakens, it was made really obvious that the last thing he can be is a new and improved Darth Vader. But now he's apparently going to be running the First Order so hilariously incompetently that they can't destroy the resistance (which is now, like, 30 people in an entire galaxy at this point).



Honestly the main redeeming features of the film are BB-8 and Poe Dameron. BB-8 pretty much just exists to show that Star Wars still wants to show off how much fun it can have with practical effects. Its making me look forward to IX less than Force Awakens made me look forward to VIII.

Still "Colonel Hugs"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> that whole scene was just a metaphorical "fuck you" to everyone who held the EU and the OT in high regard.
> 
> That tree, those books, represented the past they've been dying to burn away.
> 
> And I wouldn't have the slightest bit of an issue moving on beyond Jedi and Sith...if what they've set up doesn't feel so hackneyed.



They are going to rue this shit. No wonder Mark Hamill has been collectively shitting on the Sequels since TFA was announced and  shitting on Kathleen Kennedy even more, the new movies in general, and having zero expectations as his soul has been tarnished by these soulless rehashes. Fucking talk about burning the past yet still copying TESB almost verbatim.

Lucas, forgive us.
We know now what we have wrought.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Kylo and Luke doesnt even make sense...Kylo hates Luke so he decides to kill everybody but Luke...how does that make logical sense....


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> There its boy proof critics are bought and paid for by the House of Mouse.


Is It?  Or is it nerds are frantically calling this the worse movie ever?  Like I said before, casuals enjoyed it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Kylo and Luke doesnt even make sense...Kylo hates Luke so he decides to kill everybody but Luke...how does that make logical sense....



*Spoiler*: __ 



Except he tried to kill Luke this movie, And the resistance in the last?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

>can't rate all of Mider T's posts outside of the Blender as dumb in this thread

Really activates my almonds

Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 1


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## Aduro (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Kylo and Luke doesnt even make sense...Kylo hates Luke so he decides to kill everybody but Luke...how does that make logical sense....



*Spoiler*: __ 




Ren thought Luke was dead. Except Ren somehow found he's not dead afterwards... Despite nobody having any contact with Luke after he had a breakdown after the Ren caused a rebellion.

Also, how did Ren persuade half of Luke's disciples to go evil if he only went full dark side after Luke tried to kill him? And how stupid is it that Ren became evil because of a simple misunderstanding and having being attracted to the Dark Side for no apparent reason? Would it be so difficult to make the Dark Side a teensy bit grey?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

The salt at these are hilarious.  I hope this movie is the best performing of 2017.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Except he tried to kill Luke this movie, And the resistance in the last?




*Spoiler*: __ 





That the point everything blows up and Kylo and Luke just seperate. Kylo doesn't immediatly go after Luke after leveling the place no he runs off to Snoke presumably and spends his time killing random villagers. He doesnt even try to kill Luke until what 5 or 6 years later but kills plenty in the meantime. Logically it doesnt make sense, Kylo is pissed at Luke has Luke right there and doesnt try to kill him.

@Aduro that doesn't work you are telling me Leia can feel Han die across light years but Kylo cant tell if Luke is dead from what 10 feet away?


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because he didn't know where Luke was.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Because he didn't know where Luke was.




*Spoiler*: __ 



God that has no fucking impact on anything. He knows Luke used to be standing in front him that is more precision then Leia has in knowing where Han was when he died on Star Killer. Far more precision then Kenobi had when he realized a certain planet got nuked.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> God that has no fucking impact on anything. He knows Luke used to be standing in front him that is more precision then Leia has in knowing where Han was when he died on Star Killer. Far more precision then Kenobi had when he realized a certain planet got nuked.



*Spoiler*: __ 



"User to be standing in front of him" wtf does that even mean?


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> God that has no fucking impact on anything. He knows Luke used to be standing in front him that is more precision then Leia has in knowing where Han was when he died on Star Killer. Far more precision then Kenobi had when he realized a certain planet got nuked.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey explicitly said Luke was blocking himself from the Force or something like that. No wonder Kylo or Snoke didn't know where he was.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



He blocked himself "somehow" never did get an explanation for that immediately after Kylo attacked him? That is about as logical as everything else in this movie.






Mider T said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> "User to be standing in front of him" wtf does that even mean?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Kylo sees Luke with lightsaber out blows the place to kingdom come so where was Luke before Kylo did his thing, in his line of sight. Meanwhile Leia can feel Han die despite being separated by light years. What part of this do you not understand?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Link removed
Positive: 307
Mixed: 97
Negative: 274

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




I don't see the problem though. Obi-Wan managed to cloak his presence as well to the point Vader never located him.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2017)

I gave it a 0 on metacritic

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Kylo sees Luke with lightsaber out blows the place to kingdom come so where was Luke before Kylo did his thing, in his line of sight. Meanwhile Leia can feel Han die despite being separated by light years. What part of this do you not understand?



*Spoiler*: __ 



Because he never actually tried to kill Luke in that instance.  He snapped but he was conflicted, hell he is still conflicted years later.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

People who are shouting how the prequels are now even more vindicated will become more numerous, that's for sure.


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## Aeternus (Dec 15, 2017)

The score got even lower?  Not that it matters to them much. As long as it makes them money.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> I don't see the problem though. Obi-Wan managed to cloak his presence as well to the point Vader never located him.



Yeah except Vader immediately detected Kenobi when they got back in close proximity to each other...so try again.

Really I do have to wonder if you guys have ever seen a Star Wars Movie.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Because he never actually tried to kill Luke in that instance.  He snapped but he was conflicted, hell he is still conflicted years later.



Right he was conflicted so he set out to slaughter defenseless villagers, old men who were too sassy, his father and stood around while the First Order built StarKiller cause he was conflicted good to note.


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## Imagine (Dec 15, 2017)

TFA wasn't very good so surprise surprise

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Right he was conflicted so he set out to slaughter defenseless villagers, old men who were too sassy, his father and stood around while the First Order built StarKiller cause he was conflicted good to note.


Villagers?  He killed the other students yes, he was raging.  And killing Han Solo he was still conflicted.  Are you trying to argue that he would make clear headed decisions with his volatile emotions?


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Villagers?  He killed the other students yes, he was raging.  And killing Han Solo he was still conflicted.  Are you trying to argue that he would make clear headed decisions with his volatile emotions?



So when Phasma asked what to do with a bunch of Villagers and he said Kill Them all he was conflicted and therefore deserves a free pass?


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## Glued (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> People who are shouting how the prequels are now even more vindicated will become more numerous, that's for sure.



To be honest, I didn't really have a problem with the phantom menace except for that speech about Midichlorians. Turning the Force from a mystical power into something that can be weighed and measured.

Clone Wars was a giant meh for me and just forgettable.

Revenge of the Sith had bad dialogue, though there were some parts I liked. Obi Wan talking about democracy made me cringe. Why would an abstract power such as the Force care for something as worldly as mortal governments?


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## Aduro (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> People who are shouting how the prequels are now even more vindicated will become more numerous, that's for sure.


Honestly I was fine with the minimal references to the prequels. They didn't mention Midichlorians or make Snoke Windu. I think they're trying to ignore them. The only real connection is Luke calling them out on the incompetence and arrogance of the Jedi in the prequels and frankly I'd be happy if that had been expanded on a bit more.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention he specifically said Kylo was Conflicted multiple times and knows what a Skywalker (Vader) did to that last Dark Lord so it makes the fuck up even worse....at least Vader was lying on the ground the last time Palps checked. Oh and Vader walked up grabbed Palps unlike Kylo who was using the Force...so what Force Users cant sense other Force Users using the Force anymore?




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah. Snoke really comes off as the guy that rose to power after the power vacuum left by Palps' death and only managed to get a hold of Kylo due to Luke's fuck ups. Doesn't even come close to what Palpatine managed to do.






Aduro said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Third movie needs a lengthy timeskip I think. At least they can explain new peeps joining and Leia's death that way.






> Honestly the main redeeming features of the film are BB-8 and Poe Dameron. BB-8 pretty much just exists to show that Star Wars still wants to show off how much fun it can have with practical effects. Its making me look forward to IX less than Force Awakens made me look forward to VIII.
> 
> Still "Colonel Hugs"



Never thought much of Poe in the first movie. But yeah he is a blast in this one. Completely overshadowed Finn and Rey. He was doing shit but also didn't seem like a rey sue in the process. Oh and Del Toro's character was also cool. Too bad about Phasma tho.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> To be honest, I didn't really have a problem with the phantom menace except for that speech about Midichlorians. Turning the Force from a mystical power into something that can be weighed and measured.
> 
> Clone Wars was a giant meh for me and just forgettable.
> 
> Revenge of the Sith had bad dialogue, though there were some parts I liked. Obi Wan talking about democracy made me cringe. Why would an abstract power such as the Force care for something as worldly as mortal governments?


The Phantom Menace isn't dragged down so much by the Midichlorians as much as it being a snooze fest where barely anything exciting happens. Revenge of the Sith is the most overrated prequel to me. AOTC is worse, for sure (SFX fest with bad acting and convoluted story) but the only thing that I can praise RotS more than TPM is that it has more action sequences, but still nothing that comes up with that final duel with Darth Maul which is still one of the best duels of the series.

I agree that RotS's democracy talk is pure cringe. So is the dialogue. "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!"


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Aduro said:


> Honestly I was fine with the minimal references to the prequels. They didn't mention Midichlorians or make Snoke Windu. I think they're trying to ignore them. The only real connection is Luke calling them out on the incompetence and arrogance of the Jedi in the prequels and frankly I'd be happy if that had been expanded on a bit more.



That work better if Luke didnt shit the bed as a total failure...the Jedi Order lasted accoring to Kenobi over 1000 Generations so assuming a generation is 20 years in Star Wars that is 20,000 Years. Did Luke's Order even last 20 Years?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 15, 2017)

WB-esque failure

No way The Mouse is gonna keep Johnson and Kennedy when word of mouth will make em lose hundreds of millions

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Dec 15, 2017)

Audience score @ RT dropped to 50's from yesterday's 70

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> Audience score @ RT dropped to 50's from yesterday's 70


Metacritic's user score is also very bad. It has more positives than negatives, but only by a few dozens, and then you add up the mixed reviews which are a third of the positive ones. With this gigantic backlash I expect TLJ to drop massively in its second week at the box office.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Glued (Dec 15, 2017)

I haven't seen the movie, but it looks like it will become the Man of Steel movie of Disney. 50% hating it, 50% loving it.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> WB-esque failure
> 
> No way The Mouse is gonna keep Johnson and Kennedy when word of mouth will make em lose hundreds of millions



What does Kennedy even do? Besides talk about Feminism. I mean shit she and her cronies in the Story Group couldn't even be bothered to map out a fucking trilogy. WB/DC gets crucified for their lack of planning but no ones says anything when KK and RJ brag about having absolutely no overarching plan. RJ got a fucking trilogy without even a pitch.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

don't get ahead of yourselves guys. this movie will make bank regardless.


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## Indra (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Metacritic's user score is also very bad. It has more positives than negatives, but only by a few dozens, and then you add up the mixed reviews which are a third of the positive ones. With this gigantic backlash I expect TLJ to drop massively in its second week at the box office.


Oh no doubt. Majority of people know what they are getting into by the second week of release, it should fall flat if anything.

Though I wouldn't be surprised at the people trying to watch it a second time to see if the movie is trash or not. Can't believe movie reviewers said that lol.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> don't get ahead of yourselves guys. this movie will make bank regardless.



That is never in doubt the question is how much bank? 2 Billion, 1.5 Billion, 1 Billion...I mean I think it can at least hit 1 Billion but if barely outperforms Rogue One then KK is in the shit house.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah except Vader immediately detected Kenobi when they got back in close proximity to each other...so try again.



It's not really "try again"

Star Wars is a poorly written franchise that routinely has characters forget how to use their super powers to further plot advancement without consideration for how stupid it makes everyone look when they use them again later *shrugs*



> Really I do have to wonder if you guys have ever seen a Star Wars Movie.



And in a vacuum, maybe using the movies alone would suffice

There's more to Star Wars than just the films though, and that goes doubly after Disney abandoned the tiering system *shrugs*


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> It's not really "try again"
> 
> Star Wars is a poorly written franchise that routinely has characters forget how to use their super powers to further plot advancement without consideration for how stupid it makes everyone look when they use them again later *shrugs*
> 
> ...



Speaking of the canon levels abandoning that was dumb. The books and comics are already littered with contradictions. Heck they couldnt even be assed to keep TFA and TLJ continuity straight.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Speaking of the canon levels abandoning that was dumb. The books and comics are already littered with contradictions. Heck they couldnt even be assed to keep TFA and TLJ continuity straight.



From a business perspective I imagine it made sense, even if it annoyed long time fans *shrugs*

Had to be business, because they're still selling us Legends material as they come out with new shit for their new Disney brand canon

Granted, I can't fathom why they in kind aren't supporting more Legends writing outside the fucking MMO in that regard, but I suppose I don't run a business


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

what was the second week drop-off in US for TFA ?


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Weiss said:


> what was the second week drop-off in US for TFA ?



I'm sure you have google like the rest of us Fluttershit 

How's shit been? Would have thought you'd be bored of this place by now


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Deserved

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 15, 2017)

I actually see that score rising to about 75% by the end of the weekend.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Oh god I liked a @Megaharrison Post, I feel so dirty...need a shower.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

8.1 on IMDB tho

still kind of see most casuals liking it/not minding it or at least not actively hating on 


we'll see I guess from the drop-off numbers


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)

btw, the official rankings are ESB > ROTJ > ANH > ROTS > R1 > TPM > TFA > ATOC > TLJ

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Oh god I liked a @Megaharrison Post, I feel so dirty...need a shower.



You belong to me now

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I actually see that score rising to about 75% by the end of the weekend.



I see it getting worse. TFA relied heavily on hype and once the hype wore off, people became more critical of it. Not only will this movie get hit harder when the hype wears off, this meh audience reaction is going to create a word of mouth as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Rewatched all the films for this one and I honestly was surprised by how little Leia did comparatively in ESB. She was mainly there to banter with Han and be his love interest. That dragged the film for me but it's still very solid overall but now rank it at an equal level as ANH.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

RedLetterMedia is also being down voted to hell


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Also I already hated Rey from TFA. So whatever forced Jesus Superman shit she pulled off this movie barely triggered anything in me.
> 
> Also, the Maz scene looked interesting. Wish we could've seen that.


how did he not hear that rattling?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

No way is this worse than ROTS or even AOTC for that matter. Those two made good actors seem like complete trash. TPM at least had those cool racing scenes and Maul.



Ben Grimm said:


> Turning the Force from a mystical power into something that can be weighed and measured.



Yeah. I caught up to the movies relatively late. And so I can objectively say that that sucked regardless of the Force's legacy in the original trilogy. It also added nothing as it continued being inconsistent anyway.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> how did he not hear that rattling?



He was busy being intoxicated by Kylo's hate boner.


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> He was busy being intoxicated by Kylo's hate boner.



*Spoiler*: __ 



I hate how they made luke go out like a bitch he should have gone down like the spartan ffrom reach fighting hoards like a boss and showing that one man can make a difference against the first order that would be some real inspirational shit there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Uchiha Madara (Dec 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Do not make the mistake of assuming Snoke to be dead like I did.


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## Aduro (Dec 15, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Star Wars is a poorly written franchise that routinely has characters forget how to use their super powers to further plot advancement without consideration for how stupid it makes everyone look when they use them again later *shrugs*


Also The Force has always been a massive plot device that lets the characters read the script and wind up in the same place at the same time.


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## Glued (Dec 15, 2017)

I will say this about Attack of the Clones.

It at least tested Anakin and destroyed Anakin. Dooku wrecked that urchin. 

Did Rey get tested and destroyed in this movie, I haven't seen it yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

These movies have essentially shit on all of the work Luke, leia, han and the rebels did in the og trilogy. 

makes all that they seem pointless given how incompetent they've been at least with the empire tehy had a stable government and economy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I hate how they made luke go out like a bitch he should have gone down like the spartan ffrom reach fighting hoards like a boss and showing that one man can make a difference against the first order that would be some real inspirational shit there.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I mentioned this a few pages back. Would have been much better if Luke was actually on Crait, fucked up a bunch of TFO's shit and eventually got cut down by Kylo. Luke would have died like the badass/warrior he always was, he would have saved Leia one last time, Kylo gets another major name in his body count, and the Resistance would still manage to escape.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I will say this about Attack of the Clones.
> 
> It at least tested Anakin and destroyed Anakin. Dooku wrecked that urchin.
> 
> Did Rey get tested and destroyed in this movie, I haven't seen it yet.



Haven't you gotten the memo yet? Rey does things because she's Rey. Also note that I'm saying this whilst wearing an Itachi avatar and that shit says a fucking lot.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I will say this about Attack of the Clones.
> 
> It at least tested Anakin and destroyed Anakin. Dooku wrecked that urchin.
> 
> Did Rey get tested and destroyed in this movie, I haven't seen it yet.


Not destroyed, but she is definitely completely powerless at one point in the film.


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## Imagine (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Doesn't have to be cool. He can just continue killing major characters and he'd continue to be threatening.


He isn't thought cause Rey is invincible. It was already hamfisted with how he killed Han

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

The saltiness of SW fans

Reactions: Agree 1


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> I mentioned this a few pages back. Would have been much better if Luke was actually on Crait, fucked up a bunch of TFO's shit and eventually got cut down by Kylo. Luke would have died like the badass/warrior he always was, he would have saved Leia one last time, Kylo gets another major name in his body count, and the Resistance would still manage to escape.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Exactly in terms of like what it would have invoked the imagery of one jedi taking on impossible odds would have been a much more powerful tool to ignite their resistance which they're basically going to have to build from scratch now like look at Fox's X men mystiques solo stand against magneto was shit and still inspired loads of gay revolutionary shit.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> No way is this worse than ROTS


loved RotS 


> DC shills gave JL an actual 80%


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The saltiness of SW fans



*Spoiler*: __ 



It's not even salt the plot itself was dumb, starships getting tracked and they're getting picked off one by one, they go to sabotage their shit and get caught, rey magically skyping kylo.


Luke going out like a bitch and dying like padme when he should have gone out like obi wan.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Look the problem is there has been no time passage in this movie so Rey beat Kylo the last time and has only gotten stronger there is no tension in the Force Fight Now. So it be Rey curbstomping Kylo while Finn, Poe, Rose and the rest mow down scores of Stormtrooper Grunts. You cant introduce the Knights of Ren because then it be Rey running over 6 other mooks and Kylo at the same time.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Look the problem is there has been no time passage in this movie so Rey beat Kylo the last time and has only gotten stronger there is no tension in the Force Fight Now. So it be Rey curbstomping Kylo while Finn, Poe, Rose and the rest mow down scores of Stormtrooper Grunts. You cant introduce the Knights of Ren because then it be Rey running over 6 other mooks and Kylo at the same time.


they shit on the lore that could have explained this, nomi sunrider who had no training as a jedi magically became a bamf cos her connection was so strong.


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## Son Of Man (Dec 15, 2017)

Went into the movie expecting to hate it but I didn't. There are scenes in the movie that were dumb leia "super leia" but the movie wasn't horrible. It took a lot of risks which I appreciate. The romanticized version of Luke from EU fans makes me understand why they hate this movie. As a casual fan I though his end was done decently. Would have been cool to see him do more force moves tho. 
Oh also snoke dying pissed me off but palpatine died as well without doing nothing in the OT and people seemed to be fine with that so I guess I can live with it. 

I give TLJ a 6/10


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Imagine said:


> He isn't thought cause Rey is invincible.



Rey will always be the bane of this trilogy. She still haven't gotten any actual training mind you. Flopping around her shitty stick for 10 seconds doesn't fucking count.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> It's not even salt the plot itself was dumb,



So are all Star Wars plots being honest



John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> starships getting tracked and they're getting picked off one by one,




*Spoiler*: __ 



Wow, newly developed tech in decades that can now track ships in hyperspace. So horrible.








John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> they go to sabotage their shit and get caught,




*Spoiler*: __ 



I agree, that whole arc trying to sabotage Snoke's flagship was pointless filler and easily the worst part of the film.






John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> rey magically skyping kylo.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Obi-Wan was magically contacting Luke from the afterlife. Moreover, it's Snoke who connected the two as he himself said. I don't know why this is problematic.






John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Luke going out like a bitch and dying like padme when he should have gone out like obi wan.




*Spoiler*: __ 



I don't know, I always thought even as a child who first watched ANH that Obi-Wan's death was rather lame (a few minutes of fighting Vader and then turning into a Force ghost, not exactly amazing) and could have been much better. Even more now with how supplementary canon shows how much potential Obi-Wan has. At least Luke gave us a cool Force power of manifesting himself from the other side of the galaxy and making the First Order collectively lose their wits with a mere apparition.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly in terms of like what it would have invoked the imagery of one jedi taking on impossible odds would have been a much more powerful tool to ignite their resistance which they're basically going to have to build from scratch now like look at Fox's X men mystiques solo stand against magneto was shit and still inspired loads of gay revolutionary shit.



Remember when Kylo stopped laser blats mid air in TFA? Why couldn't Luke do that shit here? 

Or is that like Force Lightning where only bad guys are able to do it?


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

you know what would have been better if they adopted the whole nomi sunrider and ulic qel droma thing to this. 


replacing Nomi with rey and ulic with kylo, have them beat the first order cut him off from the force and make it about his redemption.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> So are all Star Wars plots being honest



That's true but the plot stupidity to epic moments ratio in the movies differ. TPM is completely forgivable in my book for example.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> So when Phasma asked what to do with a bunch of Villagers and he said Kill Them all he was conflicted and therefore deserves a free pass?


Why would that cause conflict in him?  He had no emotional attachment to those villagers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> you know what would have been better if they adopted the whole nomi sunrider and ulic qel droma thing to this.
> 
> 
> replacing Nomi with rey and ulic with kylo, have them beat the first order cut him off from the force and make it about his redemption.


 naw, they're doing a poor attempt at a Jacen and Jaina Solo story.

meanwhile, Snoke i suspect, was like the dark influence of Exar Kun that corrupted Luke's NJO.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Rey will always be the bane of this trilogy. She still haven't gotten any actual training mind you. Flopping around her shitty stick for 10 seconds doesn't fucking count.


Disney was a mistake

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Remember when Kylo stopped laser blats mid air in TFA? Why couldn't Luke do that shit here?
> 
> Or is that like Force Lightning where only bad guys are able to do it?


He didn't need to in the first place. His apparition could become tangible and intangible at will. Either that or he used a Force shield to block the AT-AT's blasts. Either way Luke simply didn't need to do it.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Rey will always be the bane of this trilogy. She still haven't gotten any actual training mind you. Flopping around her shitty stick for 10 seconds doesn't fucking count.


What about Luke teaching her to delve into the force?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> He didn't need to in the first place. His apparition could become tangible and intangible at will. Either that or he used a Force shield to block the AT-AT's blasts. Either way Luke simply didn't need to do it.



Necessity shouldn't matter to cool scenes in a Star Wars movie tbh. The whole franchise was built upon the excuse to showcase amazing work and advances in special effects.


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> So are all Star Wars plots being honest
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> So are all Star Wars plots being honest



Don't see the point of this since you can argue all sci fi is stupid but ok



> Wow, newly developed tech in decades that can now track ships in hyperspace. So horrible.



remnants of the empire with less resources and manpower etc magically gain leaps in technology over the rebels backed by the government till they blew them up with their magic space weapon which they managed to produce man and power easily, when the rebels were a ragtag faction they had fuck all but their hope and beliefs, these guys are somehow able to despite being in a similar position pull off shit that is completely far fetched for some small faction of the military that escaped, did all of their scientists magically escape to their little rallying point? Kuat drive yards be like ayo guys palpatine is dead but some of his boys escaped to some unknown section, let's book it and go hook up with them cos they seem like a safe bet? 



> Obi-Wan was magically contacting Luke from the afterlife. Moreover, it's Snoke who connected the two as he himself said. I don't know why this is problematic.



When you die you can become one with the force, obi wan, Yoda and Qui gon all did this hence how they were able to talk beyond the grave, their connection is so forced it's why it doesn't seem right I can get the whole intergalatic skype but iirc someone with a deeper understanding of the lore they threw out this is reserved for people that have a deep bond.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> What about Luke teaching her to delve into the force?


A few days of that is still not enough. She still has fought against people for survival most of her life though so her beating a couple of fodder guards weaker than Magnaguards doesn't bother me all that much.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> What about Luke teaching her to delve into the force?



He taught her an ability she already unconsciously was able to use. Or are her visions/whatever you wanna call them in TFA something completely unrelated?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 15, 2017)

So if I'm hearing this right..Kylo took out 2 masters of the Force.  Does that mean he's Anakin'  full potential realized and not Luke?


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> He taught her an ability she already unconsciously was able to use. Or are her visions/whatever you wanna call them in TFA something completely unrelated?


She could use it but she explicitly asked for guidance on the force, and he gave her an exercise.  She had never done that before then.


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Remember when Kylo stopped laser blats mid air in TFA? Why couldn't Luke do that shit here?
> 
> Or is that like Force Lightning where only bad guys are able to do it?


Anakin Solo in the retconned shit when he died used pure force energy to attack and kill people before going off like a nuke they could have done that here.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> She could use it but she explicitly asked for guidance on the force, and he gave her an exercise.  She had never done that before then.



He gave her instructions to be fair. Either way that barely passes as training.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> Don't see the point of this since you can argue all sci fi is stupid but ok



The point is you need to try harder than just say its plot is dumb in order to have a valid complaint.



John Wick said:


> remnants of the empire with less resources and manpower etc magically gain leaps in technology over the rebels backed by the government till they blew them up with their magic space weapon which they managed to produce man and power easily, when the rebels were a ragtag faction they had fuck all but their hope and beliefs, these guys are somehow able to despite being in a similar position pull off shit that is completely far fetched for some small faction of the military that escaped, did all of their scientists magically escape to their little rallying point? Kuat drive yards be like ayo guys palpatine is dead but some of his boys escaped to some unknown section, let's book it and go hook up with them cos they seem like a safe bet?



Okay, so the complaint is not the tech itself but the fact that one faction has it and another not. I can get that and I feel that if supplementary material has to explain what is not shown in the movie (the FO has better tech overall because the New Republic disarmed itself in order to prevent something like the empire occurring again) then it's a problem.




John Wick said:


> When you die you can become one with the force, obi wan, Yoda and Qui gon all did this hence how they were able to talk beyond the grave, their connection is so forced it's why it doesn't seem right I can get the whole intergalatic skype but iirc someone with a deeper understanding of the lore they threw out this is reserved for people that have a deep bond.



Except it was explicitly stated that Snoke, who seems to have a decent knowledge of the Force, was the one who connected them. It was not them who did. And I still don't see how your explanation about Force ghosts and the Force afterlife makes "Force skype" worse. I think this is one of the biggest nitpicks I see done by some people. I thought people would be complaining about the cringe part of Adam Driver's shirtless scene rather than them talking through the Force.


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Revenge of the Sith is a veritable masterpiece compared to TLJ and TFA.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> He gave her instructions to be fair. Either way that barely passes as training.


I think it could have been more too, but I'm going to dismiss it as "10 minutes with sticks" because that isn't all that happened.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Megaharrison said:


> You belong to me now



No you killed my father


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## Son Of Man (Dec 15, 2017)

How big of a time skip should take place between TLJ and EP IX?


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

SonOfMan said:


> How big of a time skip should take place between TLJ and EP IX?



*Spoiler*: __ 



None.  The movie kind of ended on a cliffhanger.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I think it could have been more too, but I'm going to dismiss it as "10 minutes with sticks" because that isn't all that happened.



Seconds*


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

They'll probably set it a year to two or three years at most. We know TLJ is set only a few months after TFA. I can't see them not giving at least a year minimum to intersperse more comics, novels, and games to add supplementary material and background.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Fang said:


> They'll probably set it a year to two or three years at most. We know TLJ is set only a few months after TFA. I can't see them not giving at least a year minimum to intersperse more comics, novels, and games to add supplementary material and background.


Months? Looked like mere days to me.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Fang said:


> We know TLJ is set only a few months after TFA.


Wat.  It picks up right where TFA left off.


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> naw, they're doing a poor attempt at a Jacen and Jaina Solo story.
> 
> meanwhile, Snoke i suspect, was like the dark influence of Exar Kun that corrupted Luke's NJO.



"So EU is gone but we're just gonna recycle everything from it again. Also bring back Thrawn in the new CGI series, and uh make a couple references to plot points and places from Knights of the Old Republic games, throw in Dark Troopers, Tie-Defenders, and everything that people like while making indirect references to stuff like the ancient Sith in the old continuity.

But its totally not canon!"

Disney knows how to milk the cash cow.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The point is you need to try harder than just say its plot is dumb in order to have a valid complaint.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The FO makes no sense even if they wanted better tech it's not just wanting to have better shit that makes it happen they were an exiled remnant of the military, they would have the infrastructure to do this, real life is proof of this, NK and Iran want more advanced shit but their lack of resources and skilled people hamper them greatly. 

Snoke Connecting them across the galaxy implies he has a greater understanding than yoda/palpatine and even the retconned legends like Thon, Exar Kun and Nomi Sunrider. Like luke was only able to vaguely sense what was going on at great distances and Snoke turned it into a two way system with HD. 

The force is everywhere like throughout the galaxy, every living thing has a connection to the force I guess becoming one with it makes you omnipotent


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Palpatine was manipulating the Force to the point of controlling events in the direct future to orchestrate the fall of the entire Jedi Order, end of the Republic, and rise of the Empire and even actively keeping the dark shroud of the Force over the Jedi so they weren't even able to use their precognitive abilities. I'm not seeing anything that actively puts Snoke above Yoda, Luke, or Palpatine.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Only thing against him was his vagina face.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

What language is this?


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Rest in pizza

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 15, 2017)

John Wick said:


> Only thing against him was his vagina face.



bell's palsy ren


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Fang said:


> Rest in pizza



He Warned Us...Poor Mark...Poor Everyone But Adam Driver Fuck That Emo Bitch, Its His Movie He Gets All The Good Material. Everyone One Gets Shit On For His Character And He Still Does The Least Fucking Press Of Them All. I hope he is giving it to KKK good.


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## Glued (Dec 15, 2017)

Fang said:


> Rest in pizza



You know, it would have been great to turn Luke to the Darkside and turn him into raving mad lunatic.

Call him Darth Joker.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Dec 15, 2017)

i take it fans didn't like it?


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> i take it fans didn't like it?


To be fair with them, the critics are hogwashing us with their high scores. This movie is 7/10 at best. I don't think it's nearly as bad as internet SW fans say, but it has such an unevenly messy writing with some unbelievably bad scenes (Luke tending that stupid cow alien ) that one starts wondering what the hell did critics see.


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> To be fair with them, the critics are hogwashing us a bit with their high scores. This movie is 7/10 at best. I don't think it's nearly as bad as internet SW fans say, but it has such an unevenly messy writing with some unbelievably bad scenes (Luke tending that stupid cow alien ) that one starts wondering what the hell did critics see.



I am sure RJ and KK made Mark milk that fucking Alien for him backtalking and trying to warn us about this shitshow.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Megaharrison (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> naw, they're doing a poor attempt at a Jacen and Jaina Solo story.
> 
> meanwhile, Snoke i suspect, was like the dark influence of Exar Kun that corrupted Luke's NJO.



This is key, Nu-SW is just the Old EU but worse

>Starkiller Base is a worse version of Suncrusher
>First Order is a worse version of Imperial Remnant
>Rey is a worse version of Jaina Solo
>Kylo is a worse version of Jacen Solo
>Snoke is a worse version of Exar Kun
>Luke is a worse version of Luke

Honestly I much would have rather seen the much-maligned Yuuzhan Vong invasion over this rehashed mess

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> i take it fans didn't like it?


mixed or so

the exact ratio is unknown


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> (Luke tending that stupid cow alien


That was great.  Especially how it just looked back at Rey like "The fuck you looking at?"

Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 2


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

TLJ is at best a 3 out of 10.

And that 3 is coming for Hamill's performance and the kino duel with Snoke's guards.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

Fang said:


> TLJ is at best a 3 out of 10.
> 
> And that 3 is coming for Hamill's performance and the kino duel with Snoke's guards.



Meh I do not give one fuck about Snokes Random guards one that red armor looks ridiculous how do they even see? Imperial Knights did it better... two a fucking Star Wars  Skywalker Saga movie and not one lightsaber fight. Instead we got Lightsabers on random cheap cosplay weapons and baton vs spears....


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

it's a good movie folks. it's good


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

That's a good Mider T impression

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Stunna (Dec 15, 2017)

If you think this was worse than the prequels, you're wylin' the fuck out. We're not in that territory yet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Here is my Fang impression

"The movie takes place months after TFA, so that means Rey and Luke stood on an island for quite some time before the latter decided to take his lightsaber from her and throw it over his shoulder"


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Stunna said:


> If you think this was worse than the prequels, you're wylin' the fuck out. We're not in that territory yet.


And out of nowhere, Stunna


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Here is my Fang impression
> 
> "The movie takes place months after TFA, so that means Rey and Luke stood on an island for quite some time before the latter decided to take his lightsaber from her and throw it over his shoulder"



Sorry what language is this?


----------



## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Stunna said:


> If you think this was worse than the prequels, you're wylin' the fuck out. We're not in that territory yet.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

i dont like finn being pawned off on a 4/10 tho

wheres the NF black power squad 

lets get mad about this

@~Gesy~ lets go. whitey is tryna take away finn's white girl

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Stunna (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> i dont like finn being pawned off on a 4/10 tho
> 
> wheres the NF black power squad
> 
> ...


Rose is into Finn, but I honestly don't think he's gonna reciprocate lol


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Remember when Kylo stopped laser blats mid air in TFA? Why couldn't Luke do that shit here?
> 
> Or is that like Force Lightning where only bad guys are able to do it?


what did you see in the film that implies he couldn't

luke's _physical body_ never faced a laser blast


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

Stunna said:


> Rose is into Finn, but I honestly don't think he's gonna reciprocate lol


hope not. it's time for the people of god to take back their birthright from the yakubians

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Bueno

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Stunna said:


> Nah, no one's hand-waving anything. Again, the movie is def flawed. But prequel territory? C'mon, son.



Its definitely on par with the worst of the worst or at least hovering around that territory, which is Episode II's court. So we are there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> what did you see in the film that implies he couldn't



Its not even impressive as a display of power in the first place

The assumption it has kinetic energy behind it, the only reason you could gauge stopping its flight as impressive... falls fucking flat when you remember they can block and deflect this shit with their physical strength let alone superior shit like Telekinesis

It fails a speed feat, it fails as a power feat, all you're left with is precision that's only that much because its a speeding object

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Its not even impressive as a display of power in the first place
> 
> The assumption it has kinetic energy behind it, the only reason you could gauge stopping its flight as impressive... falls fucking flat when you remember they can block and deflect this shit with their physical strength let alone superior shit like Telekinesis
> 
> It fails a speed feat, it fails as a power feat, all you're left with is precision that's only that much because its a speeding object


yah i assume the emphasis on it is cuz it looks cool, which it does. somewhat misplaced here however since through the whole movie, luke was never in a position where he had to try to do that


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> yah i assume the emphasis on it is cuz it looks cool, which it does. somewhat misplaced here however since through the whole movie, luke was never in a position where he had to try to do that



It does look cool

Also a waste of psychic energy where they can just slightly move their arms to angle their laser blade to bounce it back into the other fucker's head 

Even if he was in the position to do so, I'm incredulous Luke would bother anyway


----------



## John Wick (Dec 15, 2017)

Megaharrison said:


> This is key, Nu-SW is just the Old EU but worse
> 
> >Starkiller Base is a worse version of Suncrusher
> >First Order is a worse version of Imperial Remnant
> ...


Vong war would have been so much better.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> what did you see in the film that implies he couldn't
> 
> *luke's physical body never faced a laser blast*



That right there is why this movie was thrash.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> To be fair with them, the critics are hogwashing us with their high scores. This movie is 7/10 at best. I don't think it's nearly as bad as internet SW fans say, but it has such an unevenly messy writing with some unbelievably bad scenes (Luke tending that stupid cow alien ) that one starts wondering what the hell did critics see.



This is probably the best description I've read for this movie.



Lucaniel said:


> what did you see in the film that implies he couldn't
> 
> luke's _physical body_ never faced a laser blast



Yeah I meant why couldn't Luke's physical body be there in that spot where he was getting shot at and do that. My question was more about Luke not being there than his ability.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> That right there is why this movie was thrash.


gotta have that 66 year old heavyset man doin swordfighting


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## ~VK~ (Dec 15, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I actually see that score rising to about 75% by the end of the weekend.


**optimistic intensifies**

Reactions: Funny 2


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## WT (Dec 15, 2017)

Kylo Ren is a threatening final villain because the main hero and resistance is as weak and pathetic as he is.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

anyway here are my thoughts on the movie as just a c/ped convo


*Spoiler*: _thots_ 




[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:40 PM
ok so
first, i wanna talk about Laura Dern's character

luc - Yesterday at 11:41 PM
a milf, a thot, a stone cold fox
no reason to exist ofc
and largely pointless

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:41 PM
all tru
yeah, i just dont know why she needed to be so secretive and shit about her plan, which was basically just "yeah we're gonna stealth abandon ship"
which ofc resulted in the heroes doing drastic shit that got more people killed

luc - Yesterday at 11:42 PM
there was no reaosn for it whatsoever but i kinda just thought she had a shitty high-handed personality and thought no-one outside of her circle deserved to know lol
but yeah it doesn't make sense
i did however like that the attempt at an infiltration mission from finn & rose resulted in huge casualties

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:43 PM
that could have been the case, but then she was revealed to actually be not-an-ass, so i was like ok lol

luc - Yesterday at 11:43 PM
and it totally backfired on them

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:43 PM
brb but agreed

luc - Yesterday at 11:43 PM
just cuz it made a change

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:47 PM
but yeah, i agree. i didnt care for their subplot in general, but i liked the outcome
i liked the overall theme of failure in the movie

luc - Yesterday at 11:48 PM
before i saw the film i saw someone say it was explicitly anti-capitalist and radical and i was like ok cool
then i watched it and it was just that casino planet diversion where they say everyone on it has gotten their money from arms dealing and that's bad
kinda underwhelmed me
those cat horses were really cute tho

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:48 PM
they were cute, ye. for a sec i thought there was gonna be podracing lol
and also, agree; they didnt do much at all with the revelation that the world was full of war profiteers

luc - Yesterday at 11:50 PM
and tbh like i guess i can't expect a star wars film to get into this? but there's no way technologically advanced societies have an upper class which is only war profiteers, there have got to be industrial magnates and traders and shit in there
but ofc if they were offering a more realistic view of what a bourgeoisie looks like and positioning them as people to be overthrown then they'd be getting into uncomfortable territory for the disney execs vetting the final cut

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:50 PM
lol
oh, and for all she did in the movie, they might as well have killed Leia off when she got sucked into space

luc - Yesterday at 11:52 PM
it was really stupid of them to not do that considering now they have to...what, cgi carrie fisher in so she can die in the story?

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:52 PM
honestly, i expect a time skip
she'll die off screen between now and the next movie
i think this movie could have used a time skip too tbh

luc - Yesterday at 11:52 PM
that'd be less desecrate-y
i wish the people in charge of planning and writing out the space & land battles in star wars put more thought into them
there was a really stupid bit near the start where the first order ships could clearly see troop transports going up from the planet to a rebellion ship as part of the evacuation
but they bombarded the nearly-empty ground bases for ages before the general was like "shoot down those ships!"
w...why wouldn't you just shoot down the ships to begin with? they've almost escaped!
why wouldn't you leave the people on the ground till later
also finn flying directly into a mini death star laser seemed kinda dumb

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:55 PM
yea, but not as dumb as Rose crashing into him to "save" him

luc - Yesterday at 11:56 PM
"i don't fight to kill my enemy...i fight to save those i love...which i have to do by killing the enemy who is trying to kill those i love...oh shit i guess we're back to killing the enemy..."

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:56 PM
lol
and whats this love shit
youve known each other for 6 hours, most of that time youve spent hating him for being a coward
also, her plan was to crash into him to save him... but how'd she catch up
how'd she know she wouldnt kill him by crashing into him like that
and since they were likely boned regardless
why stop him from crashing into the cannon
which might save the rebels?

luc - Yesterday at 11:58 PM
to be fair she started out idolising him and while she turned angry after finding out about the escape, that flipped p quickly once he signed on to save everyone
so i kinda got the foundation for the love thing but it did seem like "homely girl is infatuated with hot hero guy"
also yeah it's pretty stupid of her to crash into him

[redacted] - Yesterday at 11:58 PM
yeah but even as late as their trying to deactivate the tracker with Del Toro, she was mocking him for knowing where the escape pods were located
but a bit of hero infatuation is the least of what was wrong there, so eh

luc - Today at 12:01 AM
i think everything with rey and kylo was good tho
also i liked how they turned that shitty boring star battle at the beginning into a genuinely tense scene by zooming in on the final bomber where the girl was trying to get to the detonator

[redacted] - Today at 12:03 AM
agreed on both.
i gotta say, i like how nonchalantly snoke was dealt with lol
i never thought there was much potential there, so as a stepping stone for kylo, i think they played him as well as they could have

luc - Today at 12:04 AM
yeah that was an all-around great scene
the sort of classic you kinda see it coming but you kinda don't double cross
very subtle with how he turns the hilt

[redacted] - Today at 12:04 AM
yeah. i also approve of how they handled rey's parentage

luc - Today at 12:05 AM
her dynamic with kylo is really fascinating, i wish we'd had less of that resistance subplot and just more time on rey etc.
i get that SW has to balance these things because its' meant to give equal attention to the non-jedi resistance but boy you gotta try harder to make those people interesting
in retrospect given how big a chunk of the movie is about the resistance, despite the fact that i really liked that finale (rose aside), i have to admit this is prob only about as good as RotJ or so

[redacted] - Today at 12:07 AM
tru tru

luc - Today at 12:09 AM
real shame tho because if you isolate the rey storyline you've got the best SW stuff ever put on film imo

[redacted] - Today at 12:10 AM
how'd u feel about luke

luc - Today at 12:12 AM
i liked his thing here though i feel a little confused by how he seemed to be firmly convinced it was time for the jedi order to die and then go I AM NOT THE LAST JEDI at the end
but i liked him here...aside from when he uhhh
drunk from the udders of a sea cow

[redacted] - Today at 12:13 AM
lmaoo

luc - Today at 12:13 AM
apart from that he was good and i thought it was really good when it turned out he was a projection and not really there
are you seeing the mad nerds in the thread whining about him not being there
hilarious
we see a clear shot of his starfighter submerged and broken

[redacted] - Today at 12:14 AM
yeah, i dont understand the frustration

luc - Today at 12:14 AM
rey leaves w/o him in the falcon
so how the fuck would he really have been there?
he didn't have any way off the island!

[redacted] - Today at 12:15 AM
as epic as the visual of Luke pulling a Goku and suddenly showing up and tanking fire from AT ATs was, it would have been 10x more eye rolling if he had been there in person

luc - Today at 12:15 AM
i mean yeah it wouldve been cool to see luke do some really extreme shit with the force like somehow ball up all the blaster fire and then send it back at the army and eradicate them etc. buuuut that's just the dumb anime power level nerd drooling in me (and in them)
these stories have to have some kind of limitation on what any one person can do to be dramatically satisfying
that's why winning through cleverness gets more points
which is why i say big ups on the luke projection thing


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## Rasendori (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> gotta have that 66 year old heavyset man doin swordfighting



With that budget, and time hell yeah gotta have him do it. Or even innovating a force style of fighting whee he didn't have to move much but still got shit done. 

There are so many ways to have actual Luke fuck shit up within reason.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> anyway here are my thoughts on the movie as just a c/ped convo
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _thots_
> ...


 Most people aren't upset that he used the hologram. They're upset he died without doing much else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 15, 2017)

how was the TLJ music ?


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Weiss said:


> how was the TLJ music ?


Excellent.  Especially on the casino planet.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> With that budget, and time hell yeah gotta have him do it. Or even innovating a force style of fighting whee he didn't have to move much but still got shit done.
> 
> There are so many ways to have actual Luke fuck shit up within reason.



Hamill even looks a LOT younger from all the weight he lost and how fit he's gotten. They could've gone a number of directions; wire work, CGI effects, stage props, he's in better shape for this stuff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> Most people aren't upset that he used the hologram. They're upset he died without doing much else.


they should stop being dorks chasing a mirage of luke turning into force goku and destroying the first order single-handedly and realise the narrative has moved on from him

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Aduro (Dec 15, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> they should stop being dorks chasing a mirage of luke turning into force goku and destroying the first order single-handedly and realise the narrative has moved on from him


Isn't that pretty much what Luke said when Rey asked him to go fight the First Order? Something along the lines of "What, you thought I'd just grab a laser sword and take out the whole fleet?". 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Luke basically just learned from Obi-Wan's thing of being willing to buy time to give the enemy a distraction. But it seems unfair that he died about two seconds after realising that life was worth living. Dumbest thing about the scene was the stupid slow-mo, dumb expression, limbo dodge when Hamill ducked under Ren's lightsaber (because it looked distractingly stupid, I know that he dodged to maintain the illusion that he was there).



Also, did anyone else get the impression that 3PO was only there because fans would be pissed if he wasn't? I like Daniels and all, but he added literally nothing to the movie besides getting one decent bit of snark from Leia.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

C-3PO has never been relevant in practically every movie, even in the original. He's always been there for comic relief and hardly anything more.


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## Uchiha Madara (Dec 15, 2017)

Holy shit the overreactions. TFA/TLJ as bad as TPM/AOTC? 

Let me remind you, this came from AOTC. 

ROTS you could maybe argue.

My take: the movie had its highs and its lows (the lowest by far being Superman Leia holy shit that was cringeworthy, the only scene in TFA and TLJ that can possibly be compared to TPM/AOTC). Some aspects were very hit or miss, like the comedy. For how flawed it was, I feel it managed to be surprisingly good overall. TFA's quality was more consistent but I feel TLJ hit bigger highs.


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## Uchiha Madara (Dec 15, 2017)

Also, Snoke will return and reveal himself as Plagueis at some point in the second half of episode IX (I feel they'll give Kylo his time in the spotlight before Snoke returns). What happened to him in this movie is the exact same thing Palpatine did to him.

It's Obito and Madara all over again.

Hell, look at the wound on Snoke's head (which I think, or hope, is from when Palpatine "killed" him). He's clearly survived fatal injuries before.

I mean, I suppose they could be taking the route that Ren surpasses Vader by doing what he failed to do (kill Palpatine and take over the Empire) but I don't think Snoke is done before we even know who the hell he is. Rey being a nobody I can understand, but this guy's mastery of the dark side has to come from somewhere.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 15, 2017)

Aduro said:


> Isn't that pretty much what Luke said when Rey asked him to go fight the First Order? Something along the lines of "What, you thought I'd just grab a laser sword and take out the whole fleet?".


yeah lol


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> the lowest by far being Superman Leia holy shit that was cringeworthy, the only scene in TFA and TLJ that can possibly be compared to TPM/AOTC


That and Luke milking that cow alien. That scene deserves to be put down for all eternity.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 15, 2017)

Carrie Fischer will forever be tarnished by awful CGI, whether in Rogue One or in The Last Jedi

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 15, 2017)

I kind of loved this movie, but I'm not done processing it. 

I loved how it sometimes defied the formula and caught the audience off guard. The visuals were amazing and there is even one scene where the audience cried out at how awesome one effect-oriented scene was. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



The light speed kamikaze


. I even teared up at some of the emotional content. 

If I have any issue right now, it's that it moved at too fast of a pace. Sometimes I had difficulty keeping up and sometimes I just wanted to catch my breath. The Finn/Rose storythread wasn't as good as the others, but I kind of liked the pay-off because 
*Spoiler*: __ 



It shows not every journey ends well.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

this movie is nothing but fluff to me; empty nonsense.

I think i'm done with SW. I wish i could say I was salty or rage quitting but legit indifference toward all this has washed over me.

I never thought I'd see the day that the MCU became the far superior film universe.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> You should try the "Children of the Corn" franchise! Or even better...THE PUPPET MASTER FRANCHISE!


i saw the original Corn as a kid; shit's too deep 4 me.

What was in that field maaan? what was in that field?!


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> this movie is nothing but fluff to me; empty nonsense.
> 
> I think i'm done with SW. I wish i could say I was salty or rage quitting but legit indifference toward all this has washed over me.
> 
> I never thought I'd see the day that the MCU became the far superior film universe.



Now they just need some good videogames that is the last barrier for Marvel...well I suppose they could have better animated material but at least they have done that in the past.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 15, 2017)

I'm still expecting a Star Wars + Avengers+ X-Men cross-over.



RAGING BONER said:


> i saw the original Corn as a kid; shit's too deep 4 me.
> 
> What was in that field maaan? what was in that field?!



...A Sith Lord, obviously.

Random Note: I ended up liking Snoke, as I thought he was menacing and had a different kind of personality than the emperor. He had some really good interactions with Rey, Hux and Kylo Ren. But his name...'Snoke' sounds too silly for an evil overlord.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 15, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Now they just need some good videogames that is the last barrier for Marvel...well I suppose they could have better animated material but at least they have done that in the past.


Disney will just give the rights to EA like they did with the Star Wars license


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> C-3PO has never been relevant in practically every movie, even in the original. He's always been there for comic relief and hardly anything more.


He's an innovator in human-cyborg relations.  He's like a proto-DDJ.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 15, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Disney will just give the rights to EA like they did with the Star Wars license



I am sure micro transactions will be even worse not only will you pay for costumes. You will pay for accessories. Cap's Shield? Gonna Cost You. Every Iron Man Armor? Sold Separately, heck they might sell you helmet, chest, arms, legs and arc reactor separate. Thor? Hammer Not Included. Bucky? That arm isn't free. Hawkeye? Arrows will not be bundled each one is separate....


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## Indra (Dec 16, 2017)

I just feel like there's nothing left for the franchise to continue it, especially since I'm not emotionally invested in any of the characters.

I absolutely despise Kylo, he's annoying and I don't really care about his redemption Arc. I understand him wanting to walk away from Luke but that doesn't give him the right to kill his parent, and attempt to kill the other.

I don't care about Rey either. She had promise, but her just being that naturally strong/gifted at the force/light-saber leaves little room for improvement. She was never 'weak', she was always strong. So she'll get stronger. Wow, so exciting.

Finn and the others are just wasted potential which will never amount to anything big, like Snoke.

The final movie will be about Kylo being redeemed, or sacrificing himself. Then Rey will lead a new era of Jedi users.

The end. All while killing off the old characters, and the newer characters leave nothing behind. Yeah I'll pass on the 3rd one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 16, 2017)

Aduro said:


> *Isn't that pretty much what Luke said when Rey asked him to go fight the First Order? Something along the lines of "What, you thought I'd just grab a laser sword and take out the whole fleet?"*.



Well yeah, and that would've been awesome to watch. I thought the troll was funny, but it being that last awesome thing he did was soooooo meh...



Fang said:


> Hamill even looks a LOT younger from all the weight he lost and how fit he's gotten. They could've gone a number of directions; wire work, CGI effects, stage props, he's in better shape for this stuff.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 16, 2017)

>Snoke? He's nobody, kill him so we can build up Kylo
>Rey's heritage? Just some junkies who sold her
>Why is Luke in exile? Cause he almost killed his nephew cause he sensed the dark side in him which makes no sense character wise
>Maz is the new Force guru? Nope I have no idea what to do with this trash character

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Detective (Dec 16, 2017)

This..... was not the film I was looking for.

Holy shit, what a clusterfuck.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Djomla (Dec 16, 2017)

Kar Vastor: *"I have known Jedi. Many, many years ago. That knowing was not a gladness for me. I believed I would never know another, and I rejoiced in that belief. But it is a gladness for me to be proven wrong. I am happy to have known you, Jedi Luke Skywalker. You are more than they were."

Luke:" That's—I mean, thanks, but I barely know anything."

* Kar Vastor: "So you believe. But I say to you: you are greater than the Jedi of former days."

Luke: "What makes you say that?"

Kar Vastor: "Because unlike the Knights of old, Jedi Luke Skywalker… you are not afraid of the dark."*

This is who Luke fucking Skywalker is. 

I know Disney doesn't give a shit about EU but Rian, oh you cunt you, you could at least pay a respect to the lore so old and great.

I absolutely reject to call that thing from the LJ a Luke Skywalker.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Bluebeard (Dec 16, 2017)

Loved it.

Took things in a new direction and subverted some classic Star Wars tropes. I am now very excited for Rian Johnson's new Star Wars trilogy and to see what batshit insane story that he will put together.

Reactions: Like 3 | Optimistic 2 | Dislike 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

so I take it a bunch of you guys will skip episodes 9-12 ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 16, 2017)

Indra said:


> I just feel like there's nothing left for the franchise to continue it, especially since I'm not emotionally invested in any of the characters.
> 
> I absolutely despise Kylo, he's annoying and I don't really care about his redemption Arc. I understand him wanting to walk away from Luke but that doesn't give him the right to kill his parent, and attempt to kill the other.
> 
> ...



What if it ends with Jar Jar Binks leading a new era of Jedi?


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> so I take it a bunch of you guys will skip episodes 9-12 ?


can they also skip the threads for those 

btw i wish rian johnson was doing 9 instead of abrams

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## The Runner (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> they should stop being dorks chasing a mirage of luke turning into force goku and destroying the first order single-handedly and realise the narrative has moved on from him


I'd be more than happy to move on if the road wasn't paved with shit.

Honestly embarrassing

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Sir Jogga said:


> I'd be more than happy to move on if the road wasn't paved with shit.
> 
> Honestly embarrassing


strong metaphor really makes u think


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## The Runner (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> strong metaphor really makes u think


Knee deep in shit, the narrative is


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## B Rabbit (Dec 16, 2017)

Yoda was the only good part for me.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

Just got back


I give it an 8/10, but its not worse than a 7/10 for sure



I thought Luke would get Finn level treatment or smth from some of the posts here,  but it was absolutely fine  awesome hologram twist (wish i wasnt spoiled),  peaceful death,  great scene with Yoda (Yoda still best SW character) 

That imagery at a low angle of Luke facing down the walkers with yellow skies background   seared into my brain already


Rey was ok,  she does her part


Curious to see if Snoke will return or not,  Im fine with either way



Reylo is...  something  







I will give Mouse money again for ep9

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Reylo is... something


lol imagine if when kylo showed up in reys mind hed just immediately started jerking off

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> so I take it a bunch of you guys will skip episodes 9-12 ?


Nah, I will watch episode 9. TLJ had its share of issues and flaws but at least it was fun to watch. As for the new trilogy, that depends on whatever info is going to be released about it later.


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Can't tell what's worse, Luc's low effort baiting or the ponyfucker thinking anyone is falling for his antics

Disgusted equally either way

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 16, 2017)

Saw it.

I liked the Rey/Luke stuff. Rest felt like filler.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

Im now wondering if Kylo deliberately appeared shirtless to Rey to *literally* seduce her to the dark side

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 16, 2017)

Djomla said:


> Kar Vastor: *"I have known Jedi. Many, many years ago. That knowing was not a gladness for me. I believed I would never know another, and I rejoiced in that belief. But it is a gladness for me to be proven wrong. I am happy to have known you, Jedi Luke Skywalker. You are more than they were."
> 
> Luke:" That's—I mean, thanks, but I barely know anything."
> 
> ...



Mark Hamill is also heartbroken, that's the saddest part. 

I read an interview that said Rian knew that Mark Hamill had 20 years to ponder his character and still decided to throw that away for the sake of his own vision. Which is fair as a film maker, but a shitty choice for the franchise as a whole.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

Fang said:


> Can't tell what's worse, Luc's low effort baiting or the ponyfucker thinking anyone is falling for his antics
> 
> Disgusted equally either way


he's baiting?


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

Also Im legit shocked at how many people actually liked the EU

like that's a lot of really bad literature, read real books.  Say no to illiteracy and bad taste.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

im surprised any jedi was ever afraid of the dark considering they all carried glowsticks

just light that shit up my dudes


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## Jotun (Dec 16, 2017)

Some of the EU stuff is pretty good, but I mean it is basically published fan fics. Grandmaster Luke is fucking sick and Palpatine using the dark side version of ascension to possess clones is amazing. I also like how they played with Jedi/Sith who were in hiding on random planets.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Parallax said:


> he's baiting?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

concession accepted


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

@Djomla 

don't just dislike my post say it with yo chest b

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Parallax said:


> concession accepted



Y you mad tho?


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

Fang said:


> Y you mad tho?


concession accepted

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> Yoda was the only good part for me.


One of the few weaker parts.  Mainly because they went back to puppetry. 


mr_shadow said:


> Saw it.
> 
> I liked the Rey/Luke stuff. Rest felt like filler.



Did you take a piss first?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

I was like WTF when ghost Yoda went full Thor on that poor tree 


but his teachings are always sage


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Parallax said:


> concession accepted



But y u mad tho?


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## Parallax (Dec 16, 2017)

Fang said:


> But y u mad tho?


concession accepted


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## dr_shadow (Dec 16, 2017)

Mider T said:


> One of the few weaker parts.  Mainly because they went back to puppetry.
> 
> 
> Did you take a piss first?



I did, but it didn't help. Long movie...


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I was like WTF when ghost Yoda went full Thor on that poor tree
> 
> 
> but his teachings are always sage



Actually that raises a point. I am sorry I thought Force Ghost couldn't fucking interact besides talk. This means Yoda could have helped take out Vader and Sidious. That is an egregious fucking canon violation.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

maybe it took him many years as a force ghost to do that


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Actually that raises a point. I am sorry I thought Force Ghost couldn't fucking interact besides talk. This means Yoda could have helped take out Vader and Sidious. That is an egregious fucking canon violation.


He ascended in force mastery.  It's a mysterious thing.


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2017)

Pharah said:


> TLJ was amazing.





Le Male Absolu said:


> I'm not a fan of star wars but I actually liked "The last jedi"


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> there is even one scene* where the audience cried out at how awesome one effect-oriented scene was.*
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...


happened in my theater too

that visual was

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 16, 2017)

If they can make something as small as an X-Wing capable of light speed...

...why has nobody thought about light speed torpedoes?


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## Son Of Man (Dec 16, 2017)

Rey is the last Jedi


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> If they can make something as small as an X-Wing capable of light speed...
> 
> ...why has nobody thought about light speed torpedoes?



Hahaha they didnt even need a trench run on the death star. Just Light Speed Nuke it with X-Wings piloted by Droids.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## WT (Dec 16, 2017)

I would have somewhat found it acceptible if it followed three parallel story lines...

1) Luke vs Snoke

A battle between the masters showing crazy jedi/sith skills. More Snoke back story etc

2) Rey vs Ren

Battle of the pussies but with development. 
Rey is a novice but Ren could be weaker than usual after he killed his dad which were imbalancing him...

3) Fin/Poe vs Hux

If only Hux wasn't such a pussy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BlueDemon (Dec 16, 2017)

I'm more of a SF fan in general and only a casual SW fan. I'm also quite conflicted about the movie tbh. I went in with no expectations after having been a bit disappointed by TFA, so it's not like I expected an epic movie.

What I liked is that they didn't rehash the plot of yet another old trilogy movie and that the comedy was quite good most of the time.

On to the neutral and bad aspects of the movie...well, as I said, no SW pro here, but the technological stuff including the bombers and their ships being followed and sniped off kinda irked me. Disney's Pokemon and the the Rose&Finn subplot weren't the best either.

About Luke: having him killed there like Han would have been pretty meh. At least without him fighting. At the same time, Kylo defeating him after having been previously defeated by Rey would have been quite meh too. Even if Luke was cut off from the force for 20 years or whatever. But that might have still been preferable to him dying peacefully after a force projection.

The trailers made it look as if Kylo killed his mom, so it was quite a surprise when he didn't. Leia doing the Superman and flying back to the ship. Eh.

But to be honest, I'm mostly annoyed that we even have this situation after the defeat of the Empire. I think that's why I didn't really like the first movie that much (apart from the plot rehash). It just didn't fit. At least for me.

At least they had Yoda appear again.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aduro (Dec 16, 2017)

BlueDemon said:


> At least they had Yoda appear again.


Frank Oz voicing a puppet rather than CGI too. Honestly the thing that makes the Last Jedi more like the originals than the prequels is that they obviously had a lot of fun putting practical effects in as well as CGI. Most of that came from BB-8, but still.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

instead of rose who is 4/10 they should've made her sister be the one partnered up with finn

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Like I told Boner, the Black Man cant get a hotter chick then the White Man.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> instead of rose who is 4/10 they should've made her sister be the one partnered up with finn


this

I was sadness when the hot asian chick blew up and I realized the 4/10 is actually gonna be in the rest of the (loong) movie


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## Bishamon (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Actually that raises a point. I am sorry I thought Force Ghost couldn't fucking interact besides talk. This means Yoda could have helped take out Vader and Sidious. That is an egregious fucking canon violation.



That would completely go against Yoda's character. His goal is to teach his successors because they are the new hope, saving the universe from the beyond would teach them nothing except wait until the little adorable green thingy shows up and it'll all be okay.

Also in some (formerly) canon EU books force ghosts were able to interact with the world.


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## Vault (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> instead of rose who is 4/10 they should've made her sister be the one partnered up with finn


Black people arent allowed to win. You know that

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

You guys are really diving deep for No Prizes, I hope in the New Mouse Order, Disney remembers your loyalty and compensates you.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

She kissed his forehead tho.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> instead of rose who is 4/10 they should've made her sister be the one partnered up with finn


I thought she was  for a moment. Glad she wasn't. And I agree. Holy Hell do I hate Rose.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Gotta say that after giving some thought, Luke was downgraded in power even more. Ach-To is probably a Force nexus, this being the reason why Yoda was able to manifest himself far better there to the point he could conjure a lightning bolt. This also means that the only reason why Luke was projecting over half a galaxy away was because Ach-To allowed him. This makes his passing even more disappointing, even if I still think it was good overall.


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## Undertaker (Dec 16, 2017)

TFA was so-so, TLJ is even worse.

forced humour, awful writing, clown characters

They`ve missed an opportunity to kill Leia. Now they`ll do it offscreen or in some other pathetic way.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## BoneMoney (Dec 16, 2017)

I did like the movie, but have to agree that they took a dump on Skywalker fans.  They turned the previous hero into a failure and cut off that bloodline completely so the story will no longer be about them (Kylo Ren is a Solo)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

BoneMoney said:


> I did like the movie, but have to agree that they took a dump on Skywalker fans.  They turned the previous hero into a failure and cut off that bloodline completely so the story will no longer be about them (Kylo Ren is a Solo)


why do you give a shit about "that bloodline"

it's weird to care about this like you own horses and you wanna see what some stallion's sperm does like cmon dude

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

If you are not Kylo, they took a shit on you. 

As a Finn Fan I cant think of one thing on a list that he got that a Finn fan would want. 

1) Force Sensitive? No, Random White Broom Boi gets it. Anyone can have the force isn't it so hopeful. Yeah anyone who is white.
2) Less Comedic Relief? Fuck That Endless Comic Relief
3) Actual Character Development? Hell No lets reset him and repeat.
4) An Arc? Nope nothing he does matters and Rose is Rey but worse now she gives life lessons
5) Can he hang out with Poe? Nope we are killing FinnPoe and Finn and Poe barely interact
6) FinnRey? Not only will they be separated the whole movie while she gets wet over Kylo, they get no fucking lines
7) Well he was pretty good with a blaster some of that? Nope, he will never use a blaster at all. 
8) A satisfying conclusion to the Phasma fight? Nope no emotional heft and he wins due to luck.
9) Interaction with the Luke or Leia? Hahahaha Hell No. 
10) Well shit if you are not going to do anything with him how about a Heroic Death? Hell No, also let me kneecap FinnRey. 

I am sure I could do another 10 but that summarizes Finn pretty well.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 5


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## Aeternus (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> instead of rose who is 4/10 they should've made her sister be the one partnered up with finn


She is too pretty. Using her would have been sexist and anti-feministic


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## BoneMoney (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> why do you give a shit about "that bloodline"
> 
> it's weird to care about this like you own horses and you wanna see what some stallion's sperm does like cmon dude



Because the movies have always followed the Skywalkers.  Doesn't mean that new characters shouldn't exist or move to the front, but they shouldn't have just ended that family name.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 16, 2017)

BoneMoney said:


> I did like the movie, but have to agree that they took a dump on Skywalker fans.  They turned the previous hero into a failure and cut off that bloodline completely so the story will no longer be about them (Kylo Ren is a Solo)





Lucaniel said:


> why do you give a shit about "that bloodline"
> 
> it's weird to care about this like you own horses and you wanna see what some stallion's sperm does like cmon dude



Isn't it kind of sexist to not acknowledge Kylo as the "heir apparent to Darth Vader" just because he is descended through his mom?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

Nah man, his surname isn't "Skywalker"-- so fuck him.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> She is too pretty. Using her would have been sexist and anti-feministic


Instead let's create a stereotype of fat Mongoloids! Genius!

Screw Rose.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Dec 16, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> What if it ends with Jar Jar Binks leading a new era of Jedi?


Might be a better twist than Kylo Ren, but it would still be incredibly awkward to do.


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Parallax said:


> concession accepted



But y u mad tho?


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## ~VK~ (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> If you are not Kylo, they took a shit on you.
> 
> As a Finn Fan I cant think of one thing on a list that he got that a Finn fan would want.
> 
> 1) Force Sensitive? No, Random White Broom Boi gets it. Anyone can have the force isn't it so hopeful. Yeah anyone who is white.


i feel like such a fool for hoping for a force sensitive finn


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

BoneMoney said:


> Because the movies have always followed the Skywalkers.  Doesn't mean that new characters shouldn't exist or move to the front, but they shouldn't have just ended that family name.


that's really dumb


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## ~VK~ (Dec 16, 2017)

we never win


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Stop failing for his shitty bait m8

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

This sprawling, galaxy-spanning space epic doesn't mean shit if it isn't following the adventures of this one specific family.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 16, 2017)

lowly stormtrooper turned jedi remember that?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Stunna said:


> This sprawling, galaxy-spanning space epic doesn't mean shit if it isn't following the adventures of this one specific family.



Yeah like how the other six films have us following other families besides the Skywalkers in the saga.

Oh.

Oh wait. They don't.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

...

So?


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

Nah, forreal though. The world and mythos of _Star Wars _is big enough to support itself without having to be limited to the affairs of a single bloodline.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Nah, for real it doesn't need to be because it already does well enough alone with that narrative tailoring in the first place.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

Fang said:


> Nah, for real it doesn't need to be because it already does well enough alone with that narrative tailoring in the first place.


If you call three shitty prequel movies "well enough alone"

Just because they did something one way successfully in the past doesn't make change automatically bad. That doesn't make sense, dawg.


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Stunna said:


> If you call three shitty prequel movies "well enough alone"




Yet urnionically better than the Sequels. Funny how that works.



> Just because they did something one way successfully in the past doesn't make change automatically bad. That doesn't make sense, dawg.



Which is exactly why its better to leave things off alone then to ruin the saga. Which is why Hamill himself has says repeatedly they aren't going to catch lightning in a bottle twice and made those references with those shitty Bayformer films as a caveat about why the Sequels won't live up. You can want that, fine, but I sure as hell won't.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

If these new movies are bad, they're certainly not bad because there aren't gonna be any more characters running around with the surname Skywalker. That shit's so superficial compared to what actually goes into making a good SW movie lol.

Oh, and the saga can't be "ruined." If the prequels didn't do that, then nothing that comes out will.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Not really the prequels dont fuck over the end of ROTJ

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)

we're still following a Skywalker in a sense...

but that shit is the least of what's wrong in this filler extravaganza.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Glued (Dec 16, 2017)

Star Wars is basically a story about family, in which Doctor Doom is Johnny Storm's father.

Sue = Princess Leia (Johnny's bossy sister)
Han = Reed Richards (Big bro to Johnny)
Chewbacca = Ben Grimm (Reed's muscle and weird looking buddy).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Yeah if u dont want to follow the skywalkers fine jump a century or to into the future

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Star Wars is basically a story about family, in which Doctor Doom is Johnny Storm's father.
> 
> Sue = Princess Leia (Johnny's bossy sister)
> Han = Reed Richards (Big bro to Johnny)
> Chewbacca = Ben Grimm (Reed's muscle and weird looking buddy).



So then Lando is the Black Panther?


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## BoneMoney (Dec 16, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Isn't it kind of sexist to not acknowledge Kylo as the "heir apparent to Darth Vader" just because he is descended through his mom?



That's not what I was saying though.  Simply pointing out that the surname Skywalker is now effectively dead forever in Star Wars and that to me is a sad thing.


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## Glued (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> So then Lando is the Black Panther?



Yeah, I guess he is.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Not really the prequels dont fuck over the end of ROTJ


They screw over Vader instead, which is way worse. As the EU shows, continuing with conflicts despite defeating Sidious is not bad in itself.


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Meh it  fucked one characters vs three.,...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah if u dont want to follow the skywalkers fine jump a century or to into the future


what if we don't do that but also don't follow the skywalkers

man you people get real fuckin weird about "the skywalkers"





BoneMoney said:


> That's not what I was saying though.  Simply pointing out that the surname Skywalker is now effectively dead forever in Star Wars and that to me is a sad thing.


lmao


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## Ennoea (Dec 16, 2017)

Stunna said:


> This sprawling, galaxy-spanning space epic doesn't mean shit if it isn't following the adventures of this one specific family.


I agre with you but the original trilogy was a family saga whether we like it or not. You can' expect people to accept completely new characters when they haven't earned their keep or have no real stakes.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)

i don't care if we follow new characters.

the problem being is that the new characters they've made, suck.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 16, 2017)

More I hear about the film. The more it seems like they went with the Marvel model of too many jokes and random twists for the sake of audience. And less Family Space Opera which it really should be.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> More I hear about the film. The more it seems like they went with the Marvel model of too many jokes and random twists for the sake of audience. And less Family Space Opera which it really should be.


its fine

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

> *Critical response*
> 
> On review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, _Star Wars: The Last Jedi_ has an approval rating of 93% based on 291 reviews, with an average rating of 8.2/10. The website's critical consensus reads, "_Star Wars: The Last Jedi_ honors the saga's rich legacy while adding some surprising twists—and delivering all the emotion-rich action fans could hope for."[96] On Metacritic, the film has a weighted average score of 86 out of 100, based on 54 critics, indicating "universal acclaim".[97] *Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "A" on an A+ to F scale,[93] while ComScore reported audiences gave an average five-out-of-five stars to the film, with a 90% overall positive score and an 82% definite recommend.*


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 16, 2017)



Reactions: Like 3


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


>



Seeing as I've never thought you an idiot Fluttershit, certainly you're aware of how sample size can bias surveyesque results 

Is the sample size that gave those scores reported? Or is it just the result?


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> I agre with you but the original trilogy was a family saga whether we like it or not. You can' expect people to accept completely new characters when they haven't earned their keep or have no real stakes.


The OT definitely was a family saga, and I'm by no means anti-Skywalker-centered SW, and even prefer it a bit. And I also sympathize with the sentiment that the new leads are unsatisfactory replacements. But a lot of people object to the very _idea _of main series SW films without Skywalkers. Not even a whole trilogy even--a single _film_. Which is what I find silly.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Seeing as I've never thought you an idiot Fluttershit, certainly you're aware of how sample size can bias surveyesque results
> 
> Is the sample size that gave those scores reported? Or is it just the result?


its fine, Im sure Disney already paid everyone to say that they liked TLJ


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> its fine, Im sure Disney already paid everyone to say that they liked TLJ



Random audience members? 

I can at least look at RT and see how many did or didn't like it that submitted score (currently 85,090 total user submitted ratings), though its difficult to weed out the number of dupe submissions that may or may not bias their sample

I just want to know what other samples are size wise to get an idea if they're actually akin to representative *shrugs*


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Stunna said:


> The OT definitely was a family saga, and I'm by no means anti-Skywalker-centered SW, and even prefer it a bit. And I also sympathize with the sentiment that the new leads are unsatisfactory replacements. But a lot of people object to the very _idea _of main series SW films without Skywalkers. Not even a whole trilogy even--a single _film_. Which is what I find silly.



I'd have preferred KOTOR era films tbh

Feels to close to life how ineffectual the impact of the previous heroes of the OT were with the birth of this new one

I don't want to be reminded of how shitty the real world is and how shit fails to change or changes slowly over time, the fantasy of a small group actually having a major impact for something significant is part of the draw here *shrugs*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I just want to know what other samples are size wise to get an idea if they're actually akin to representative *shrugs*


idk, use google-fu


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> idk, use google-fu



I get @KaiserWombat to do that for me normally *shrugs*


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 16, 2017)

Saw it. 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Snoke was completely garbo.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> More I hear about the film. The more



There should be a comma in the place of this period.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2017)

Palm Siberia said:


> Saw it.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



It is as if people don't remember that Palpatine only had a few minutes of Force Lightning _before being chucked down a reactor shaft.
_

*Spoiler*: __ 



If not for the fact Ren played out the "Rule of Two" on him, Snoke was still rag-dolling Rey, and ripped the location of Luke's island out of her when she was able to resist Ren.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is as if people don't remember that Palpatine only had a few minutes of Force Lightning _before being chucked down a reactor shaft._



*Spoiler*: __ 




Sure, but he also had decades of being fleshed out afterwards where he retroactively had far more impact *shrugs*

Will Snoke end up the same?

Who knows, but for now he's about as awful as Sidious was before his decades of character building

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> And less Family Space Opera which it really should be.


christ


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is as if people don't remember that Palpatine only had a few minutes of Force Lightning _before being chucked down a reactor shaft.
> _
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Palps died as the final villain in the last film, was killed by being thrown into the core of a planet busting weapon and he still caused the death of Vader. Snoke was a decent Force user, but the way he went out was not final villain material.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Snoke was a decent Force user, but the way he went out was not final villain material.



If I recall what the EU material says, _that's how most Sith Apprentices kill their Masters _- subterfuge, treachery, deception_._  Didn't Sidious kill Plagueis in his sleep? 

Kylo Ren just aced the treachery and deception parts, with how he was able to kill Snoke.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

PT Sidious >>> OT Sidious > Snoke

not a reason to hate on Snoke tho  esp if theres a chance he returns in ep9

now if "Mary Sue" Rey beat Snokey in a Force contest, then yeah he would be trash .. he stomped her though, so all is well

death by a sneaky lightsaber activation is still better than being grabbed by the scruff and thrown down a rector tho 



also my headcanon is this :
- Snoke said that a "champion" of the light side would rise as counter-balance to Kylos rising power on the dark side .. so maybe it was the Force itself that chose and made Rey into a Force ~prodigy (which explains why she stronk), just like Anakin before (after all the Skywalker line was also noname nobodies IIRC before the Force intervened)


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## Mider T (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> christ


This is a real space opera


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> (after all the Skywalker line was also noname nobodies IIRC before the Force intervened)


yes

anakin was a random slave's kid 

why the morons in here are pretending "the skywalkers" are some royal line and you have to preserve them and yoke star wars to characters named skywalker is beyond me but it's a really weird, slavish devotion to arbitrary bullshit

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 16, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Palps died as the final villain in the last film, was killed by being thrown into the core of a planet busting weapon and he still caused the death of Vader. Snoke was a decent Force user, but the way he went out was not final villain material.




*Spoiler*: __ 



Obviously Snoke was not the final villain. The movie seemed to make a point that the 'chosen one' mythology is B.S. Rei was just the unwanted child of junkies, who happened to be gifted with the force. Everyone assumed Snoke was someone special, as the villain, but he was probably just a dude who happened to be very skilled with the force. Everyone is complaining about his lack of back-story, but the point seems to be 'he's no one'. 




I was surprised that Luke wasn't god-like in his powers.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

btw Luke called himself a Jedi Master IIRC here in TLJ, not a Jedi _Grand Master
_
maybe Mouse-canon Luke never reached ~Yoda/Sidious levels at all  (or he did, but then regressed due to Force isolation)


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

Just got back from seeing it. And while I didn't rave it like some others have, I didn't exactly hate it either. It was just all so..."meh".

There's almost nothing worth remembering here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> There's almost nothing worth remembering here.


Leia is a better Superman than Cavillman

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Just got back from seeing it. And while I didn't rave it like some others have I didn't exactly hate it either. It was just all so..."meh".
> 
> There's almost nothing worth remembering here.


exactly how i felt.

literally the only point of progression in this movie is Darf Snokeus's demise and ReyLo's force bond. 

Nearly everything else could've been cut out.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> btw Luke called himself a Jedi Master IIRC here in TLJ, not a Jedi _Grand Master
> _
> maybe Mouse-canon Luke never reached ~Yoda/Sidious levels at all  (or he did, but then regressed due to Force isolation)



You still can't deny that Luke sending a _solid projection _of himself across the galaxy, one real enough to fool a Force Sensitive like Kylo Ren, is still rather next-level, for a Force User.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> yes
> 
> anakin was a random slave's kid
> 
> why the morons in here are pretending "the skywalkers" are some royal line and you have to preserve them and yoke star wars to characters named skywalker is beyond me but it's a really weird, slavish devotion to arbitrary bullshit



Yeah, the fixation on "the skywalkers" is fucking stupid

That being said, there are very few in story justifications for individuals in story possessing chosen onequese potential and growth

You either need to be their progeny, one of the Ones (or reincarnation I'd imagine), or the Force needs to go about it with immaculate conception so far

Its lazy writing to have a character be powerful just because when previously established lore has few fixed circumstances where that kind of power is achievable (Ypda and Sidious were powerful, but even they fell short of the Force making it so they exist kind of bullshit)

If they aren't going the route of the cast being progeny, they need to go next gen chosen one for it to at least be justified *shrugs*

If you can't work within previously established constraints, or just fail to come up with a new explanation that's more than a shrug, that's just lazy/bad writing

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You still can't deny that Luke sending a _solid projection _of himself across the galaxy, one real enough to fool a Force Sensitive like Kylo Ren, is still rather next-level, for a Force User.



Books already had them destroy an asteroid that would destroy some planets as a group in the distant backstory

While its fun, its not really "next level" objectively speaking


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> exactly how i felt.
> 
> literally the only point of progression in this movie is Darf Snokeus's demise and ReyLo's force bond.
> 
> Nearly everything else could've been cut out.


It felt like this film focused much more on destroying the old than rebuilding the new. It's equvilant to a kid kicking away a finely built sand castle.  Even Anakin's lightsaber-- an object that has lasted the majority of the series didn't make it. Which I thought was symbolic in itself.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> That being said, there are very few in story justifications for individuals in story possessing chosen onequese potential and growth



The Force deciding to take a new route after the past thousand years and Dark Side influence, perhaps?

As pointed out in the film, the Force and its two sides are embodied by more than just the Jedi and the Sith.  If someone like Rey was born with such potential, it is likely because the Force _chose her_ when she was born/conceived, in response to Ren's growing darkness.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Yeah, the fixation on "the skywalkers" is fucking stupid
> 
> That being said, there are very few in story justifications for individuals in story possessing chosen onequese potential and growth
> 
> ...


rey's power/potential, in the movies, has been said to be equal to kylo ren's, by luke. kylo himself is not exactly throwing spaceships around or something. her being as powerful as him doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief. rey's biggest thing so far has been moving rocks out of the way, slowly. i don't see that as "chosen one-esque", just as "pretty strong"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Dec 16, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The Force deciding to take a new route after the past thousand years and Dark Side influence, perhaps?
> 
> As pointed out in the film, the Force and its two sides are embodied by more than just the Jedi and the Sith.  If someone like Rey was born with such potential, it is likely because the Force _chose her_ when she was born/conceived, in response to Ren's growing darkness.



Like I said, if they established her as a new kind of chosen one, problem solved

We'll just have to see if that's actually the case now I suppose


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> rey's power/potential, in the movies, has been said to be equal to kylo ren's, by luke. kylo himself is not exactly throwing spaceships around or something. her being as powerful as him doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief. rey's biggest thing so far has been moving rocks out of the way, slowly. i don't see that as "chosen one-esque", just as "pretty strong"


If she's equal to Kylo than yes she is "chosen one- esque". snoke and Luke spent the whole movie talking about how special they were...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

some extremely weird sex shit. luke fucked that cow.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> rey's power, in the movies, has been said to be equal to kylo ren's. kylo himself is not exactly throwing spaceships around or something.



Ezra Bridger can chuck Asteroids with help of Season 1 Kanan Jarrus and Fodder Inquisitors can halt the forward momentum of Star Ships

If our Arc villain is weaker than our garden variety monster of the week type of character from yesteryear and a punk orphan and Not-Kyle Katarn hasbeen?

It just makes Luke look even worse tbh *shrugs*



> her being as powerful as him doesn't stretch my suspension of disbelief.



Its not her raw power

Its how fast she learned

Without being some kind of chosen one tier individual (bearing in mind Luke and Anakin still had to grow over longer periods of time), how fast she picked everything up looks outlierish compared to how long other fuckers need to train

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

Did you need to post that again, seriously?


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> If she's equal to Kylo than yes she is "chosen one- esque". snoke and Luke spent the whole movie talking about how special they were...


you dont have to be equivalent to some once in a millenium prodigy created by immaculate conception to be special

if i see kyrie irving play i'm like "damn that dude is great, he's a special player" however unless i am that cleveland fan who picked up dog shit off the street and ate it, i don't go "kyrie = MJ"


ChaosTheory123 said:


> Ezra Bridger can chuck Asteroids with help of Season 1 Kanan Jarrus and Fodder Inquisitors can halt the forward momentum of Star Ships
> 
> If our Arc villain is weaker than our garden variety monster of the week type of character from yesteryear and a punk orphan and Not-Kyle Katarn hasbeen?
> 
> ...


i have no idea who these people are which means they're from some other star wars thing that's not the movies, and well...criticising the narrative integrity of a self contained movie because some auxiliary material featured some dude who can smash up asteroids seems very strange and not worth addressing to me

like, 95% of the people who see TLJ aren't going to see..."star wars rebels", which has ratings of under a million viewers. so if you happened to one of those and knowing about ezra miller ruined it for you then that's tough luck. but the movies aren't going to show jedis stopping asteroids because that would render the level of threat posed by actors on a human scale e.g. stormtroopers or resistance fighters totally irrelevant.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

That part was random and disgusting..like wtf man


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 16, 2017)

I thought he was doing that milking deliberately to gross her out into leaving the island

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Ezra Bridger can chuck Asteroids with help of Season 1 Kanan Jarrus and Fodder Inquisitors can halt the forward momentum of Star Ships
> 
> If our Arc villain is weaker than our garden variety monster of the week type of character from yesteryear and a punk orphan and Not-Kyle Katarn hasbeen?
> 
> ...



Only Kylo should scale to Kanan and Ezra. The only real outlier is Rey equalling him in Force power during the scene they were fighting for Anakin's lightsaber. Rey defeating a couple of guards who didn't seem to be Force users, especially when Rey has been fighting for survival since she was a kid, is nothing to go haywire about. I chalk the lightsaber scene to Kylo not being fully healed from Chewbacca's bowcaster blast (after all, it was just a few days earlier), though I think we should wait for the novel if it's not out yet.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I thought he was doing that milking deliberately to gross her out into leaving the island


i mean, he was, but also how did he know he could do it and it was drinkable and all that. hed clearly done it before cuz hes a weird sea cow milk drinking pervert now. he fucked the sea cow


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## Skaddix (Dec 16, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I thought he was doing that milking deliberately to gross her out into leaving the island



Please Luke wasnt milking for in universe reason. Mark was milking cause he dared question KK and RJ's grand visison it was his punishment for not being a good soldier.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Only Kylo should scale to Kanan and Ezra.



I know

I'm the one that played that game of connect the dots 

His ability to block the energy of a lightsaber in the novel and the sparse number of accolades he has going for him about how powerful his TK are really the only reasons with how little fleshing out the fucker's gotten so far



> The only real outlier is Rey equalling him in Force power during the scene they were fighting for Anakin's lightsaber. Rey defeating a couple of guards who didn't seem to be Force users, especially when Rey has been fighting for survival since she was a kid, is nothing to go haywire about. I chalk the lightsaber scene to Kylo not being fully healed from Chewbacca's bowcaster blast (after all, it was just a few days earlier), though I think we should wait for the novel if it's not out yet.



Anakin only had precognition prior to any training and Luke took comparatively longer to pick up any kind of TK  and mind trick even accounting for the newer comics (IIRC, he could barely employ it reliably fighting Boba Fett and this was months after ANH)

How long was she captive to Ren again?


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

Stunna said:


> If these new movies are bad, they're certainly not bad because there aren't gonna be any more characters running around with the surname Skywalker. That shit's so superficial compared to what actually goes into making a good SW movie lol.
> 
> Oh, and the saga can't be "ruined." If the prequels didn't do that, then nothing that comes out will.



The saga is bad because this entire film was a fucking rehash of TESB and RoTJ, Snoke even copied the same fucking lines the Emperor had to Luke with his dialogue with Rey. Their bad because they are divested of any soul or character to them. Fucking Mark Hamill looks god damned embarrassed playing Luke Skywalker in the latest movie I don't know what else to tell you. Its superfluous garbage.  I can't help you if you don't want see past that.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> How long was she captive to Ren again?



Both the official novelization and the film indicate she only even heard of the Force for the first time and had exposure to what it is from Maz for a few hours at most before her being captured and less time than that passing between her breaking free from imprisonment to dueling the injured Ren.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Creative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> you dont have to be equivalent to some once in a millenium prodigy created by immaculate conception to be special
> 
> if i see kyrie irving play i'm like "damn that dude is great, he's a special player" however unless i am that cleveland fan who picked up dog shit off the street and ate it, i don't go "kyrie = MJ"


You don't have to but I'm pretty sure that's where they're headed with the whole "I've only came across this power once before" speel. When their power levels is discussed, I'm not getting the indication that they're both just "above average".


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> i have no idea who these people are which means they're from some other star wars thing that's not the movies, and well...criticising the narrative integrity of a self contained movie because some auxiliary material featured some dude who can smash up asteroids seems very strange and not worth addressing to me



We aren't the tier canon anymore

Disney is a consolidated canon

So shit like "self contained" is kind of garbage, you're better than this dude



> like, 95% of the people who see TLJ aren't going to see..."star wars rebels", which has ratings of under a million viewers. so if you happened to one of those and knowing about ezra miller ruined it for you then that's tough luck.



I'm not expecting that in the films, I barely expect it in the shows and comics

Star Wars writers are lazy comic tier hacks that rarely consider how the super powers the setting employs would be used even at the level the films restrict them to

The scale of feat doesn't do shit to mar the films, its how fast the powers themselves are picked up as I previously highlighted... not actually sure why we went on this tangent about the scale of feats anymore tbh



> but the movies aren't going to show jedis stopping asteroids because that would render the level of threat posed by actors on a human scale e.g. stormtroopers or resistance fighters totally irrelevant.



They're irrelevant even now too if they actually knew how to write the powers into the plot instead of making them forget they exist when convenient *shrugs*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I know
> 
> I'm the one that played that game of connect the dots
> 
> ...


I feel like a lot of the complaints regarding Rey's growth wouldn't have arisen if it was shown her fighting and training for survival (if I'm not wrong, she's been training in staff forms) in Jakku nurtured her Force powers to a certain degree.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> I feel like a lot of the complaints regarding Rey's growth wouldn't have arisen if it was shown her fighting and training for survival (if I'm not wrong, she's been training in staff forms) in Jakku nurtured her Force powers to a certain degree.



Yes

This is pretty much exactly it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> So shit like "self contained" is kind of garbage, you're better than this dude


while i appreciate the disappointed father angle im afraid i still can't take "kylo should be more powerful because this guy in the cartoon moved an asteroid" seriously as a criticism regardless of how george lucas mandated the new canon because i feel like normal people using normal common sense would, justifiably, be like "uhh what the fuck do i care about what some dude can do in the cartoon??" 


ChaosTheory123 said:


> The scale of feat doesn't do shit to mar the films, its how fast the powers themselves are picked up as I previously highlighted... not actually sure why we went on this tangent about the scale of feats anymore tbh


ehhh she's been using the force for some time now and she just figured out how to move stuff. she's not reading minds or casting illusions or anything requiring fine control, she's just brute-force moving stuff. she also did sense some kind of darkness under the temple which i guess points to learning quickly about sensing? but she was always sensitive, she heard luke's lightsaber "talking" to her in tfa. and she's not even gotten all that much better at fighting considering how she did against those guards. her development speed doesn't bother me because she hasn't acquired anything beyond basic competence



ChaosTheory123 said:


> Star Wars writers are lazy comic tier hacks


yeah tru tho


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> You don't have to but I'm pretty sure that's where they're headed with the whole "I've only came across this power once before" speel.


he only trained one class of students

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2017)

>Star Wars Disney canon
>involving George Lucas in anyway

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 16, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> while i appreciate the disappointed father angle im afraid i still can't take "kylo should be more powerful because this guy in the cartoon moved an asteroid" seriously as a criticism regardless of how george lucas mandated the new canon



I just expect more from a debater I know is actually good at this shit *shrugs*

And again, not even sure how we got on that tangent other than I poorly conveyed my gripe with growth and it being conflated to mean I was disappointed with scale 

I then got into scale because I like semantics and you brought up examples 



> ehhh she's been using the force for some time now and she just figured out how to move stuff.



Luke, peer in potential to the chosen one, barely picked up clairvoyance by the end of his first film and was still rubbish at TK several months later

Rey in comparison grew to use these skills in... hours?



> she's not reading minds or casting illusions or anything requiring fine control, she's just brute-force moving stuff.



Which is still beyond what someone as gifted as Luke could accomplish in similar amounts of time

She can be a peer or even better than Luke, but she needs a narrative reason for it other than "who knows"

As Catalyst has noted, they seem like they're going chosen one angle anyway, so this makes it all fine if true *shrugs*



> she also did sense some kind of darkness under the temple which i guess points to learning quickly about sensing? but she was always sensitive, she heard luke's lightsaber "talking" to her in tfa. and she's not even gotten all that much better at fighting considering how she did against those guards. her development speed doesn't bother me because she hasn't acquired anything beyond basic competence



And that's still well beyond where Luke, someone amazingly gifted with this shit, was sitting at by the time credits rolled in ANH

And even months after

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)

One of the few things I liked about the movie is how for the most of the movie-- getting back to Rey was Finn's sole motivation, but by time those two got to be in the same room together he's just worried about Rose.

That was a nice touch in my opinion .


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## Lucaniel (Dec 16, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> One of the few things I liked about the movie is how for the most of the movie-- getting back to Rey was Finn's sole motivation, but by time those two got to be in the same room together he's just worried about Rose.
> 
> That was a nice touch in my opinion .


nah man. that shows hes settling. his eye is off the prize. what if the white boy takes it!!!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)

*The Janitor & The Junkyard Rat*
_a Star Wars Love story_

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 16, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 16, 2017)

They need a Star Wars spin off starring Finn.

The Janitor sounds iconic


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 16, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> As Catalyst has noted, they seem like they're going chosen one angle anyway, so this makes it all fine if true *shrugs*



As Snoke stated, the Light Side of the Force will rise to face the Dark Side.  In this case, the Dark Side was manifest in Kylo Ren, and the Force "chose" someone with equal potential to face him.  After all, it wasn't going to choose someone who could not match up to _the Chosen One's _bloodline.


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 16, 2017)

Whoever thinks this is Prequel tier needs a solid dose of reality

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 16, 2017)

you know what would have been comedy gold?

When Gremlin-chan saves Finn and says _"You don't fight what you hate; you fight for what you love."
_
Suddenly, as would logically happen in such a scenario, an AT-AT just steps on them...and_ Splat! -_ cut to another scene.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Detective (Dec 16, 2017)

I am not sure about anyone else, but I was seriously getting annoyed at their constant overuse of the Binary Sunset/Force theme every fucking 10 minutes. It is meant for certain scenes and usage only(like when Luke peaced out while looking at those suns), not over and over again.

And God damn it, it was like this fucking film tried to throw every SW trope and cliche in at every given moment.

Like I said on a previous page, what a clusterfuck.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Stunna (Dec 16, 2017)

Fang said:


> The saga is bad because this entire film was a fucking rehash of TESB and RoTJ, Snoke even copied the same fucking lines the Emperor had to Luke with his dialogue with Rey. Their bad because they are divested of any soul or character to them. Fucking Mark Hamill looks god damned embarrassed playing Luke Skywalker in the latest movie I don't know what else to tell you. Its superfluous garbage. I can't help you if you don't want see past that.


This has fuck all to do with anything that I've said in this thread.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 16, 2017)

The problem with "Star Wars" at this point is that it can't do much other than rehash. When the original trilogy was made, the mythology was still...open? Free? There was no rules outside of what Lucas and the other filmmakers made up. By the time the 90's hit around, now everyone was etched in stone and you couldn't really do anything new without pissing the fans off. I highly doubt anyone would've given a shit if that scientific term for the force (I can't remember how it's spelled) appeared in "Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi". 

So if it doesn't just stick to a formula, fans will get angry. If it sucks to the formula, fans will also get angry.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 16, 2017)

I saw this film, tonight, and I have much to say about it, likely more than I can say in a single post, but I shall make my best effort to do so.

First, I enjoyed that it did not directly copy and previous film, whereas _The Force Awakens_ copied too many elements of _A New Hope._ However, there was too much humor or characters not being sufficiently serious in very serious situations, such as Poe Dameron messing with General Hux at the beginning. Also, I really did not wish to see that scene of Luke milking that animal on his planet; was that really necessary? I am further disappointed that Lando did not appear, nor was he even mentioned, but, hopefully, his activities and whereabouts post-_Return of the Jedi_ shall eventually be revealed.

Second, this film disproves two very popular fan theories, and I believe that it is now safe to say that Rey is not Luke's daughter and that Kylo Ren will not redeem himself. However, given that Kylo seems to have no desire to reproduce, I worry that this means that the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines will come to an end, and they were always the main characters in the major plot lines in the original expanded universe.

Third, this film answered some questions, but left many more unanswered. Did Kylo have Luke's first lightsaber as an apprentice, if so, how did he obtain it, and how did Maz eventually find it? What happened to the apprentices whom Kylo did not kill? Who was Snoke, how did he meet Kylo, and where did he originate? Someone that powerful in the force does not simply appear out of nowhere.

When Maz mentioned a "code breaker," I was really hoping that that person would tun out to be Boba Fett, so I was disappointed that it was not. I was glad that Cpatian Phasma returned, and had a proper fight, this time, as well an an epic death.

When Snoke accused Kylo of being a poor imitation of Vader, I found that to be ironic, since Snoke is clearly a poor imitation of Palpatine, but at least it is now safe to presume that he is not Darth Plagueis, although I do hope that his origins are explored in episode IX, since there is no way that some as powerful in the force as him could have remained unknown for long enough to avoid being detected by Luke.

It was very nice to see Leia use the force, but why did she not move the rocks, herself? Was she too weakened from her coma?

Kylo Ren was much better in this film, and the interactions between him and Rey were most excellent, although I thought that Rey would turn to the dark side, given how angrily she was attacking the royal guards. Although Kylo Ren may have been a shadow of Darth Vader, he also betrayed his master, in true Sith fashion, even if he does not bear the title of a Sith.

I wish that Finn had succeeded in ramming the cannon, as it would have been an awesome ending for his character, especially since rose accomplished nothing by saving him, other than nearly killing herself.

Luke's astral projection was very impressive, but, if he could make himself appear younger, why did he not also make himself appear clean-shaven? I believe that he looks much better without facial hair, and so do most people, since he has never been portrayed with facial hair prior to this film. I also cannot believe that he died, as I was expecting him to outlive Leia and die in episode IX, and it also was not good that Leia did not die, since her character needs a fitting death, since Carrie Fisher has died.

Also, Luke nearly killing Kylo when Kylo was asleep was utterly out-of-character for Luke; although Luke has shown anger, he would never harm an unarmed person, and the writers of this story clearly did not realize that. However, I am glad that Rey helped Luke regain his faith in humanity and the force, and that the Jedi order will continue after him, but, hopefully, it was actually regain its former glory that it had during the days of the old republic.

At the end, did it not seem that the boy moved the broom to his hand, as if by using the force? I am certain that that was deliberately ambiguous, but it is nice to know that there are still force-sensitive individuals being born, and they will need guidance in how to use their abilities.

I am certain that I will have more to say about this film, but that is everything of which I can think, now, so I shall post more thoughts as I have them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Stunna said:


> This has fuck all to do with anything that I've said in this thread.



Right then let me address it this way: they are bad because it boils down to them being superfluous trash.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Stunna (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Right then let me address it this way: they are bad because it boils down to them being superfluous trash.


Again, I never argued that they were good or bad, so I don't know why you're saying this to me.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

...this movie bothers me the more i think about it.

I never thought their was a man out there so full of the dark side that he could eclipse Jar Jar Abrams as a hack.

I'm almost relieved that the fucker is coming back for ep IX...not that i have any hype whatsoever for that shitshow after this one.


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

He's doing ep 9?


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

Luke referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious in this film, but how could he have possibly known that name?


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Stunna said:


> Again, I never argued that they were good or bad, so I don't know why you're saying this to me.



I never said you did in my last post, I'm calling them hot crap regardless of anything else here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Imagine said:


> He's doing ep 9?



Rian will do a new trilogy. Dunno if this is supposed to be an unnumbered one, directly set after 9 or whatever. Someone else probably more informed then me can tell you.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Luke referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious in this film, but how could he have possibly known that name?



He used the Force, you robot.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Rian will do a new trilogy. Dunno if this is supposed to be an unnumbered one, directly set after 9 or whatever. Someone else probably more informed then me can tell you.


Worst timeline.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

I do not recall hearing the famous line "I've got a bad feeling about this" being uttered in this film, making it the first time that it has not been said in a _Star Wars_ film; how could the filmmakers break from that tradition? Also, on that subject, there were no Wilhelm screams in this film, either, which was another disappointment.



Fang said:


> He used the Force, you robot.



Why would he have even cared to know that? And he would have known Palpatine by that name, so it is weird that he chosen to refer to him as "Darth Sidious."


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Luke referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious in this film, but how could he have possibly known that name?



The force ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin told him about the events of the prequels, obviously.


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> The force ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin told him about the events of the prequels, obviously.



Force BluRay

Reactions: Funny 5


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Luke referred to Palpatine as Darth Sidious in this film, but how could he have possibly known that name?





DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not recall hearing the famous line "I've got a bad feeling about this" being uttered in this film, making it the first time that it has not been said in a _Star Wars_ film; how could the filmmakers break from that tradition? Also, on that subject, there were no Wilhelm screams in this film, either, which was another disappointment.



This stuff bothers you? Seriously?

Anyways just got back. Fucking fantastic movie. Copying from another forum:



> This movie is *fucking great*. For my money, it's on-par with Empire.
> 
> It's built almost entirely on subverting expectations of the dedicated fanbase, the tropes and anticipation, the theories and speculation. All while staying comfortably within the bounds of the universe's internal logic and remaining true to the characters' development. It's by far the most intelligent and well-written of the franchise.
> 
> ...



Rian on another level from clowns like Abrams and Edwards.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Didn't get Yoda's implication tho.

"Read them, you have?"
"Page-turners, they were not."

I understand that this is (probably) a joke on how religious texts like the Bible are notoriously boring and inaccessible even to the people who claim them as scripture, but... there's like five books in that shelf, and you've been on that tiny island for years. You really haven't finished reading them??

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

Force Illiteracy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Rian on another level from clowns like Abrams and Edwards.


a pity that every single plot thread outside of Kylo and Rey's is entirely unnecessary...and I don't mean from a narrative perspective or to the larger SW universe.

I mean _literally everything, every single scene_ is contrived and full of more plot holes than a goddamned colander. 
_Nothing_ outside of the force user's scenes could've, would've or should've even happened within this world. Not one scene.

I would make a list...but I'm not DDJ.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> a pity that every single plot thread outside of Kylo and Rey's is entirely unnecessary...and I don't mean from a narrative perspective or to the larger SW universe.
> 
> I mean _literally everything, every single scene_ is contrived and full of more plot holes than a goddamned colander.
> _Nothing_ outside of the force user's scenes could've, would've or should've even happened within this world. Not one scene.
> ...



Could you elaborate?


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## Atlas (Dec 17, 2017)

DDJ has activated Jesus.exe

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> a pity that every single plot thread outside of Kylo and Rey's is entirely unnecessary...and I don't mean from a narrative perspective or to the larger SW universe.
> 
> I mean _literally everything, every single scene_ is contrived and full of more plot holes than a goddamned colander.
> _Nothing_ outside of the force user's scenes could've, would've or should've even happened within this world. Not one scene.
> ...



I'm no robot but lets see here with just about everything with Finn, Rose, and the casino planet crap was pretty much filler.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> I'm no robot but lets see here with just about everything with Finn, Rose, and the casino planet crap was pretty much filler.



The casino planet is called Space Monaco.

Seriously, it looks exactly like it.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Rian on another level from clowns like Abrams and *Edwards*.


You gotta be kidding me. Edwards' Battle of Scarif in Rogue One is arguably the most visually impressive and well-crafted battle sequence in all of Star Wars.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 17, 2017)

Force 4k HDR


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## Aeternus (Dec 17, 2017)

Finn had one chance to look cool by destroying that laser weapon but no, Rose had to come and stop him.


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## Atlas (Dec 17, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> You gotta be kidding me. Edwards' Battle of Scarif in Rogue One is arguably the most visually impressive and well-crafted battle sequence in all of Star Wars.



Rogue One will probably be the only good NU Star Wars film until the Obi Wan movie.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 17, 2017)

Atlas said:


> Rogue One will probably be the only good NU Star Wars film until the Obi Wan movie.



Obi Wan movie will be a full on drama telenovela style piece of shit. It will deal with Obi Wan’s conscience, mistakes and tribulations


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## James Bond (Dec 17, 2017)

General Hux is a sith, something is really off about him especially nearly the end when he brushed his coat away as if to take out a lightsaber (or maybe it was just a blaster).

And yes the boy forced grabbed the broom at the end obviously subtle indicator that the age of force users was not over.


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## Krory (Dec 17, 2017)

tfw hardcore prequel-fanboys like Fang can't get over the fact that The Last Jedi was as good as Empire Strikes Back.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

James Bond said:


> General Hux is a sith, something is really off about him especially nearly the end when he brushed his coat away as if to take out a lightsaber (or maybe it was just a blaster).
> 
> And yes the boy forced grabbed the broom at the end obviously subtle indicator that the age of force users was not over.



Someone said that the "General Hugs" scene felt like it belonged in Spaceballs rather than Star Wars.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 17, 2017)

Pharah said:


> tfw hardcore prequel-fanboys like Fang can't get over the fact that The Last Jedi was as good as Empire Strikes Back.



Now this is some piss poor bait

Reactions: Agree 1


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## James Bond (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Someone said that the "General Hugs" scene felt like it belonged in Spaceballs rather than Star Wars.


Now you mention it yeah it would've fit right in with Spaceballs but consider the nature of the force and how there must be balance yes? As strong as Kylo got Rey rose up to oppose him and Snoke was obviously Luke's opposition but then we saw Leia use the force so there must be someone else for the dark side as well? I think it is General Hux.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> "Page-turners, they were not."


that was funny 

Yoda is still hilarious

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 17, 2017)

Atlas said:


> Rogue One will probably be the only good NU Star Wars film until the Obi Wan movie.



Wouldnt be surprised my ningen


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Pharah said:


> tfw hardcore prequel-fanboys like Fang can't get over the fact that The Last Jedi was as good as Empire Strikes Back.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> that was funny
> 
> Yoda is stil hilarious



When you just read it as text, "page-turner" seems like an odd expression in the Star Wars vocabulary, but the delivery was so spot-on it sounded perfectly natural.


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## NO (Dec 17, 2017)

I saw this yesterday. Enjoyable installment. I'd consider it better than TFA by a slim margin.

The saga is getting weird, though.  Kylo Ren is a horrible villain but an interesting character.

Why can't they just turn this saga into a Reylo love story where the First Order and Resistance factions end up dissolving?

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

jayjay³² said:


> I saw this yesterday. Enjoyable installment. I'd consider it better than TFA by a slim margin.
> 
> The saga is getting weird, though.  Kylo Ren is a horrible villain but an interesting character.
> 
> Why can't they just turn this saga into a Reylo love story where the First Order and Resistance factions end up dissolving?


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## NO (Dec 17, 2017)

~VK~ said:


>


I should write the next trilogy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

Reylo *is* kinda hot doe

  


those staredowns they have get pretty steamy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

> *How The Last Jedi Became the Sexiest Star Wars Movie Yet*

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

jayjay³² said:


> I should write the next trilogy.


you do you man. 

all i wanted was a force using finn and these hacks couldn't even deliver on that. and as to throw salt on the wound they give some random lil white boy the force. this shit ain't fair

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Dec 17, 2017)

This is all I have to say about the movie here

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


>



DECEMBER 15, 2017 12:46 PM



> But having seen the film with a full audience three times...





Vanity Fair reporters have too much free time.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

> The _Supremacy_ was a _Mega_-class Star Destroyer that served as the flagship of Supreme Leader Snoke and the headquarters of the First Order.[1] *The ship was 60 kilometers in wingspan*[2] and was the sole _Mega_-class Star Destroyer in the First Order's service. Being the First Order's headquarters, it acted as both a command center and a battleship.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


>



How will they top that for Episode IX?

Spaceballs star destroyer?


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

The first order suffered a devastation loss when Starkiller base was destroyed, and they never had as much resources as did the Empire to begin with, so how can they still be reigning supreme in this film?

Also, I was very displeased that Rey's parents were random people who were utterly unimportant in the grand scheme of events,. because of how much secrecy there was surrounding them, before? What was the purpose of all the secrecy and mystery? If they were no one of great importance, that should have been revealed immediately, so that there was no suspense and theories being made.

Also, while Luke being able to make an astral project across the galaxy was very impressive, I was really hoping that he would demonstrate awesome power and crush the walkers that were on the planet, and I also was disappointed to learn that his survival of that blaster barrage was not due to power, but due to astral projection.

In the original movie, Darth Vader stated that the force is greater than any technology, but, thus far, I am sorry to say that the technology in this franchise not always, but often, has been much more impressive than the abilities of the force. Will there ever be a force user who is so powerful than they can do things such as teleport, fly, resurrect the dead, or destroy entire planets single-handedly?



James Bond said:


> General Hux is a sith, something is really off about him especially nearly the end when he brushed his coat away as if to take out a lightsaber (or maybe it was just a blaster).



I presume that he was drawing his blatser to shoot Kylo, but stopped when he saw that Kylo was recovering.



ATastyMuffin said:


> This stuff bothers you? Seriously?



Yes, it does; I pay extreme attention to detail, and the fact that this film did not contain a line that was spoken in every previous film does bother me.

Also, I think that your review from another forum was excellent, but I disagree with it, because shattering audience expectations is a very negative thing, not a positive thing, in my mind.

However, would it not have been an interesting twist if Rey had turned to the dark side and joined Kylo? Now _that_ would have been shattering the audience's expectations.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The first order suffered a devastation loss when Satrkiller base was destroyed, and they never had as much resources as did the Empire to begin with, so how can they still be reigning supreme in this film?


SB shot wiped out not only the HQ, but also New Republic fleet along with the entire system

so the fleet FO had left (along with a *60km* Mega-class)  is still the strongest force in the galaxy




DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, I was very displeased that Rey's parents were random people who were utterly unimportant in the grand scheme of events,. because of how much secrecy there was surrounding them, before? What was the purpose of all the secrecy and mystery? If they were no one of great importance, that should have been revealed immediately, so that there was no suspense and theories being made.


wrong




DemonDragonJ said:


> Also, while Luke being able to make an astral project across the galaxy was very impressive, I was really hoping that he would demonstrate awesome power and crush the walkers that were on the planet, and I also was disappointed to learn that his survival of that blaster barrage was not due to power, but due to astral projection.


this isnt DBZ




DemonDragonJ said:


> In the original movie, Darth Vader stated that the force is greater than any technology


it is a *universal* Force of everything, so yeah, it by definition is

maybe universe/life couldnt even exist without the Force




> Will there ever be a force user who is so powerful than they can do things such as teleport, fly, resurrect the dead, or destroy entire planets single-handedly?


hopefully not




DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, it does; I pay extreme attention to detail, and the fact that this film did not contain a line that was spoken in every previous film does bother me.


upgrade your firmware, DDJ

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Tony Lou (Dec 17, 2017)

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've heard about Kylo Ren's nudity scene.

Tell me, is Kylo Ren shredded? Does he have an 8 pack?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

his body and abs are very lickable 

Rey agrees


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> SB shot wiped out not only the HQ, but also New Republic fleet along with the entire system
> 
> so the fleet FO had left is still the strongest force in the galaxy



I can agree with you, there.



Weiss said:


> wrong



How is that the case? Please explain.



Weiss said:


> this isnt DBZ



It is not, but I would like to see some new uses of the force beyond what has been seen, thus far.



Weiss said:


> it is a *universal* Force of everything, so yeah, it by definition is
> 
> maybe universe/life couldnt even exist without the Force



Yes, that is what makes _Star Wars_ so unique; when this franchise began, there had been a glut of science ficiton and fantasy movies in the late 1970's and early 1980's; what made _Star Wars_ distinct from them, what allow it to succeed while countless others fell into obscurity, was that it was more than a straightforward action movie; it had the philosophy and mysticism of the force, which few other movies at that time had.



Weiss said:


> hopefully not



Why not? Will we ever seen evidence of what Vader spoke of in _A New Hope?_


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Will we ever seen evidence of what Vader spoke of in _A New Hope?_


IG Thanos in MCU is the closest you are getting


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> The force ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin told him about the events of the *prequels*, obviously.



That's probably why Luke went mad, having to endure that crap.


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## Euraj (Dec 17, 2017)

Luiz said:


> I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've heard about Kylo Ren's nudity scene.
> 
> Tell me, is Kylo Ren shredded? Does he have an 8 pack?


Matt lied.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

the_notorious_Z.É. said:


> That's probably why Luke went mad, having to endure that crap.



"Father, why did you turn to the Dark Side?"

"Ah, it all began when as a slave on Tatooine I was visited by Liam Neeson, your mother, and a cartoon rabbit..."


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Didn't get Yoda's implication tho.
> 
> "Read them, you have?"
> "Page-turners, they were not."
> ...



I don't like how the Force and Jedi Order are equated as a literal religion in the first place with the Disney films (considering Tarkin only says so in mockery of the Jedi to Vader) and then fucking Rogue One happened, but I guess brain-dead millennials that these movies are primarily marketed at will eat them up. And to answer your question, he was probably just fishing and eating the whole time on that planet or contemplating shit.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> I don't like how the Force and Jedi Order are equated as a literal religion in the first place with the Disney films (considering Tarkin only says so in mockery of the Jedi to Vader) and then fucking Rogue One happened, but I guess brain-dead millennials that these movies are primarily marketed at will eat them up. And to answer your question, he was probably just fishing and eating the whole time on that planet or contemplating shit.



Yeah, but really... if you were stranded on a (literal) desert island with nothing but a Bible for reading material, wouldn't you consider flipping through it once in a while? Regardless of how boring Leviticus is?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

I thought he did read it. Since Yoda said all the knowledge is already "up here".


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Improved

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Rukia (Dec 17, 2017)

Pharah said:


> tfw hardcore prequel-fanboys like Fang can't get over the fact that The Last Jedi was as good as Empire Strikes Back.


I doubt this is true.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

Luiz said:


> I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've heard about Kylo Ren's nudity scene.
> 
> Tell me, is Kylo Ren shredded? Does he have an 8 pack?


We only see his chest. Driver still seems to have worked out himself to death though.


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 17, 2017)

jayjay³² said:


> I saw this yesterday. Enjoyable installment. I'd consider it better than TFA by a slim margin.
> 
> The saga is getting weird, though.  Kylo Ren is a horrible villain but an interesting character.
> 
> Why can't they just turn this saga into a Reylo love story where the First Order and Resistance factions end up dissolving?



He’s not a villain though


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 17, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey's parents being nobody was kind of the point. Classic trope subversion. Can't believe people are actually upset about this (though I can see how people who would get their jimmies rustled over something like that would end up hating the rest of the movie)

Also (and I do think this could have been better executed), it seems purpose of the in-universe mystery was to suggest that part of the reason Rey is viewed as special (and therefore a potential symbol of hope) is her potential genealogy (something people can get behind). It served to highlight the fundamental problem of people putting too much emphasis on lineage/legacy (i.e. the notion that the film sought to tear down). At least this is what the scene with Kylo Ren stating that Rey probably always knew deep down implies.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> The first order suffered a devastation loss when Satrkiller base was destroyed, and they never had as much resources as did the Empire to begin with, so how can they still be reigning supreme in this film?
> 
> Also, I was very displeased that Rey's parents were random people who were utterly unimportant in the grand scheme of events,. because of how much secrecy there was surrounding them, before? What was the purpose of all the secrecy and mystery? If they were no one of great importance, that should have been revealed immediately, so that there was no suspense and theories being made.
> 
> ...



They still have greater numbers and resources than the resistance the film literally tells you that 

We don’t know for certain what Rey’s background is or if Kylo were telling the truth or not the trilogy is still not over pretty sure it will be fleshed out in episode 9

It doesn’t matter how he survived it he survived it you basically want him to be galactus wait until the infinity Wars and you misunderstood the purpose for him confronting Ben 

How would that be interesting the resistance would virtually be wiped out


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## Rukia (Dec 17, 2017)

Boooooooooooooo


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Rukia said:


> I doubt this is true.


It isn't .


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> You gotta be kidding me. Edwards' Battle of Scarif in Rogue One is arguably the most visually impressive and well-crafted battle sequence in all of Star Wars.



Negative.

That now belongs to the throne room fight in TLJ


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

*"Star Wars: The Last Jedi," the latest chapter in the hugely popular franchise, debuted with a massive $450 million in global ticket sales over the weekend, distributor Walt Disney Co said on Sunday.*

The total includes $220 million in the United States and Canada, the second largest domestic opening of all time behind 2015 movie "Star Wars: The Force Awakens."

The film's debut marks another success for Disney, which bought "Star Wars" producer Lucasfilm in 2012 and reinvigorated the celebrated movie saga that began in 1977.

"Last Jedi" features the final performance by actress Carrie Fisher as Leia, the princess who became a general leading resistance forces against the evil First Order. Fisher died of a heart attack in December 2016.

The film also gives a prominent role to original "Star Wars" hero Luke Skywalker, portrayed by Mark Hamill.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-450-million-in-opening-weekend-idUSKBN1EB0O3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

Mouse gotta make back that 66Bil


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> I don't like how the Force and Jedi Order are equated as a literal religion in the first place with the Disney films (considering Tarkin only says so in mockery of the Jedi to Vader) and then fucking Rogue One happened, but I guess brain-dead millennials that these movies are primarily marketed at will eat them up. And to answer your question, he was probably just fishing and eating the whole time on that planet or contemplating shit.



When you consider the Bendu, the Witches of Dathomir, the Grey Jedi, and so on, it is not all that hard to see how the Jedi Order can be described as a "religion" - the Jedi are just one group of individuals who are able to draw upon the Force, and do so in their own way, just as the Witches of Dathomir and the Bendu each have their own ways, and own views and beliefs about the Force.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Mouse gotta make back that 66Bil



BOM says #5 opening weekend worldwide.

But it's yet to open in mainland China, so could be more to come.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Negative.
> 
> That now belongs to the throne room fight in TLJ



No way in hell it does.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

my favorite fight is probably still Sidious vs Yoda  with _Duel of Fates_ playing in the background


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Based

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Suigetsu (Dec 17, 2017)

Thespacelord said:


> 58%


Its down to 56, officially the SW movie with the worst rating.
The question is, will you join on bringing it further down?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

RT audience rating is about as relevant as IMDB rating tho

aka not at all


and when trash like JL has 80% there, you know not to pay attention to it


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

Seeing this tonight. Just to see Luke even though he gets cucked in it.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Based


so many egregious, nonsensical story choices in this movie I can't even enumerate them all...every time i think about it something else comes to mind.

These assholes can save me the trouble:



This movie is a dumpster fire.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> This movie is a dumpster fire.



Come on, it's good whenever Rey is on screen.

Which... somehow doesn't feel like enough. Despite the movie being almost 3 hours long, her training seems rushed compared to, obviously, Luke's equivalent in Empire.

Luke's line about "you went straight to the Dark!" is like a meta-comment on the pacing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> so many egregious, nonsensical story choices in this movie I can't even enumerate them all...every time i think about it something else comes to mind.
> 
> These assholes can save me the trouble:
> 
> ...



Did you get the same stomach churning, bile-building gut feeling like I did after the movie ended?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Come on, it's good whenever Rey is on screen.
> 
> Which... somehow doesn't feel like enough. Despite the movie being almost 3 hours long, her training seems rushed compared to, obviously, Luke's equivalent in Empire.
> 
> Luke's line about "you went straight to the Dark!" is like a meta-comment on the pacing.


I don't even want to think about it too much so as not to spoil what little I enjoyed of TLJ


Fang said:


> Did you get the same stomach churning, bile-building gut feeling like I did after the movie ended?


that came _after_ the confusion i swallowed down in order to make sense of what the fuck i had just watched...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

extremely funny that people are suddenly acting like the RT audience rating matters

well tbf its happened before when dc fans have needed to insist those movies are good

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Negative.
> 
> That now belongs to the throne room fight in TLJ


that's not really a battle sequence

hence you using the word "fight" 

battle implies more of a mass engagement over a larger area


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Did you get the same stomach churning, bile-building gut feeling like I did after the movie ended?



I feel it wasn't a movie conclusion feeling, but instead a constant feeling throughout the film. The best part was likely the Kamikaze bomb drop at the start, and then the Lightspeed Kamikaze near the end, and aside from the obvious Luke sunset scene.

Like I mentioned before, and I believe BONER was in agreement, they basically fucking tried to force every little aspect through the entire film, while considering nothing about pace. Fuck, this film basically occured over the course of a day or so essentially timeline-wise. I mean, what was the fucking rush???

A lot people said Justice League was bad, but this film is a whole different level of shit-tier. And it's awful that it will still likely make a ton of $$$ to justify the next. Which I am not sure how they will do, as a lot of the plot progressions were so extreme that they will be hard to come back from in a future film.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

this movie deserves a sequel, while DCEU deserves a reboot

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

They might as well called it, STAR WARS: THE LAST VIOLENT DIARRHEA, because that was the feeling it encompassed, since they were in such a rush to blast shit everywhere, during all aspects of the movie.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

MAY THE SHIT BE WITH YOU, REY

RELEASE THE FORCE BUILDING UP WITHIN YOU


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

>fluttershy and luc are now on the same mental wave length

Absolutely frightening this timeline is

Reactions: Funny 3 | Friendly 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

Episode IX: The Reylo UST comes to a climax

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Episode IX: The Reylo UST comes to a climax


Shipper trash

Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Shipper trash


dont lie to us Imagine,  something stirred in your loins when you saw shirtless Kylo


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> dont lie to us Imagine,  something stirred in your loins when you saw shirtless Kylo

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

Imagine said:


>


blurry much


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## Imagine (Dec 17, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> blurry much


Just like DBS so it's accurate.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

current DBS arc is far worse than TLJ

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> dont lie to us Imagine,  something stirred in your loins when you saw shirtless Kylo



IT WAS THE FEELING OF THE STAR WARS: THE LAST VIOLENT DIARRHEA THEME I MENTIONED ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE.

DAMN NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE. THE DIARRHEA THEME TIES IN SO MUCH WITH HOW THEY WERE DROPPING PLOTPOINTS FROM THE FORCE AWAKENS.

SO MUCH SO THEY YOU COULD CALL THEM PLOPPOINTS BEING DROPPED, BECAUSE THEY WERE SHITTING THEM OUT SO FAST IT COULD ONLY BE DIARRHEA AS THE MAIN REASON OF VIOLENT EXPENDITURE.


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## Glued (Dec 17, 2017)

Small question, based off special effects, would this film be at least on par with the transformers films?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> current DBS arc is far worse than TLJ


I actually randomly caught a chick. I  couldn't stop laughing at what I think is Broly with tits.


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Small question, based off special effects, would this film be at least on par with the transformers films?



Hamill has already compared all the Nu Disney Star Wars films with Bayformers, so yes.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

You know, this reminds me a lot of another resurrected space franchise from the late 70's: Alien.

Last Jedi is to Force Awakens as Alien: Covenant is to Prometheus.

PR and FA were admittedly derivative of the first installments in their franchises, but they also set up some interesting threads for upcoming films. I came out excited to be back in these worlds (now with stunning visuals!) and willing to forgive the nostalgia-pandering since it's been so long.

But with AC and LJ I came out wondering "what did I just watch?"

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Kino in any language


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## Detective (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> You know, this reminds me a lot of another resurrected space franchise from the late 70's: Alien.
> 
> Last Jedi is to Force Awakens as Alien: Covenant is to Prometheus.
> 
> ...



I will never forgive the Aliens franchise for fooling me with that amazingly cut Prometheus trailer.

Those motherfuckers...

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

prometheus was kinda OK

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Glued (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Hamill has already compared all the Nu Disney Star Wars films with Bayformers, so yes.



Oh, too big to fail then and make lots of money.

This makes me sad.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Episode IX: The Reylo UST comes to a climax

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yak (Dec 17, 2017)

Well, what can I say as the average casual Star Wars watcher who basically only knows the movies (no books, games, cartoons or other reference material) ? It had some damn good entertainment value. I prefered the previous one to be honest since I found especially the first half of TLJ had some really unnecessary lengths to stretch the total movie time and several scenes felt horribly forced and out of place in their garbage Disney humor. Star Wars movies always had some more or less funny moments even in the older trilogy and the original trilogy but I found it particularely noticable here - and particularely bad.

That said, the second half picked up pace, had some amazing action and great visuals. I can't say I agree with everything, especially how Snoke was done in felt rather lackluster but then again the entire movie's message seems to be "walk on new paths outside the persisting ones paved by old men hung up on lineage and dogma". Like, maybe they laid it on too thicc with the middle finger to all that stuff, even. I sure would have prefered some more Snoke action and I found Luke's portrayal understandable at some times and at others rather... weird, to say the least. Well, they sure weren't hung up too much on all the past stuff though and I assume it's all to be considered a baton pass to this new generation of young Sith-slash-Jedi (who aren't really neither Sith nor Jedi to be honest). Wasn't that basically what Yoda's lecture to Luke was and why he made these comments about the books? Sure there is wisdom in guidance from tradition, self-reflection and introspection but ultimately maybe both the Sith and the Jedi have been far too purist and taken all of that as far too dogmatic and serios and it ended up wasting them away. As it stands, Kylo seems to be doing just fine even though he is internally conflicted and Rey also seems to be just fine with accepting both the light side of the Force as well as flirting with it's dark side. What that means, I guess we'll have to wait for movie three.

I can understand why people are raging because this movie seems to fuck so many conventional themes and tropes from the series in the ass all of a sudden because it beggars the question whether this is still Star Wars in the end. But I can also see how this is refreshingly different while still having identification value of the franchise for the most part. All in all I prefer to not overthink it and just go with the flow. I still enjoyed it a lot.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

"
*The Force Belongs To Us: THE LAST JEDI’s Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars*"

Setting the stage so that coming films will have no skywalkers etc. uh ok? A little forced though.

._.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Based


Finger sex scene.

Yeah, that was uh too PDA.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

*Parallel lives...*

Star Wars (1977) - Alien (1979)
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (1980) -Aliens (1986)
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (1983) - Alien 3 (1992)

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace (1999) - Alien: Resurrection (1997)
Star Wars: Attack of the Clones (2002) - Alien vs Predator (2004)
Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (2005) - Aliens vs Predator: Requiem (2007)

Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015) - Prometheus (2012)
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017) - Alien: Covenant (2017)

Reactions: Informative 3 | Creative 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 17, 2017)

No wonder Ridley Scott is bitter....George is a Fucking Billionaire.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> "
> *The Force Belongs To Us: THE LAST JEDI’s Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars*"
> 
> Setting the stage so that coming films will have no skywalkers etc. uh ok? A little forced though.
> ...



Fucking spot-on. Damn.

So glad this dude dropped that corny all-caps gimmick, lol.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Oh, too big to fail then and make lots of money.
> 
> This makes me sad.


The Last Knight is the least grossing TF movie though. Nowhere near close to the last 3 and only comparable to the first one.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The Last Knight is the least grossing TF movie though. Nowhere near close to the last 3 and only comparable to the first one.


i heard it was also by far the worst and the franchise somehow managed to reach a new low. that prolly has something to do with it lol.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> You know, this reminds me a lot of another resurrected space franchise from the late 70's: Alien.
> 
> Last Jedi is to Force Awakens as Alien: Covenant is to Prometheus.
> 
> ...


i dont get this genre of TLJ reaction takes 

it's not some seemingly incomprehensible david lynch-esque movie 

it's a pretty standard action/adventure movie. even its twists are conventional. if it's breaking your brain then your brain was windowpane-smooth to begin with

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

People in here really comparing TLJ to the likes of Alien: Covenant and Justice League.

Come on.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

I've seen the movie and without the great Mark Hamill you could trash it in an instant. Always since Episode V they recycle the same stuff. This movie is even worse in this aspect. This approach does not have to be bad... but its the same over and over again. Its story-wise good looking crap. People running around in space along with action. It felt more like a TV special for me and where was the point ? If anybody can tell me, what's "new" in compare to the last movie (besides killing off the old cast) ?

Seriously if the movie would been just 10% as epic as the trailer  So if somebody asks me, its a highly overrated movie (just my opinion). You cannot compare it to Episode V (sorry, not by a long shot). They made 2 billion on the last one. You can and you have to expect more in terms of story/writing. The best scenes in my opinion: When Skywalker saw his mistake (in regards to Kylo) and his standoff. A redo too ... but at least Hamill showed off for once in the Francaise.

Well, maybe there was too much hype around it. You expect just more. For me it ranks somewhere under "The Force Awakens". Moreover I do fell pity for JJ on the next movie.

What is he left with ?

The whole rebel theme was used on Rogue One as well. Usually these trilogies build up to something. This was more like, removing former story-lines.

Reactions: Like 3


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> People in here really comparing TLJ to the likes of Alien: Covenant and Justice League.
> 
> Come on.



I think Covenant at least had "an idea". What is TLJ about ?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

Yeah I actually like Covenant and Prometheus....

Reactions: Informative 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Still can't respect Luke for trying to kill Ben. Your father was basically Hitler, dude.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Mbxx said:


> I think Covernant hat least had "an idea". What is the story on the TLJ ?



What is the 'idea' in Covenant?

As for the story in TLJ, I'll copy a previous post of mine in another forum so I don't need to do it again.



> This movie is *fucking great*. For my money, it's on-par with Empire.
> 
> It's built almost entirely on subverting expectations of the dedicated fanbase, the tropes and anticipation, the theories and speculation. All while staying comfortably within the bounds of the universe's internal logic and remaining true to the characters' development. It's by far the most intelligent and well-written of the franchise.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I can't make heads or tails of this post, especially the bolded.
> 
> ???


You were too fast


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

Good laugh.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What is the 'idea' in Covenant?
> 
> As for the story in TLJ, I'll copy a previous post of mine in another forum so I don't need to do it again.


Isn't this bad story telling? 

This is suppose to be a grand story , there is a mythos to the series and we had legitimate questions from the first film simply ignored and forgotten. To subvert expectations in such a way is lazy storytelling. 

Why even call it Star Wars?


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## Ennoea (Dec 17, 2017)

Prometheus was shite with maybe two good scenes. Covenant started good but the third act was a disaster.


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What is the 'idea' in Covenant?
> 
> As for the story in TLJ, I'll copy a previous post of mine in another forum so I don't need to do it again.



I tell you. Building up the storyline, and AI that ties to exceed humanity.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

What I didn't add to that post that I realized later is that Rose/Finn's seemingly 'pointless' arc adds to the central theme of letting go in TLJ as well.

Rose sees Finn as a legendary hero, and so Finn believes bog-standard action heroism is all that counts where you need to throw yourself into a cannon to stop the door from being blasted off, because that's what heroes do and how they've always done. But as they get to know each other in the second act, Rose decides to save Finn not only because she cares about him, but because she understands that the 'grand sacrifice' isn't necessarily the only way to win the war.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

If letting go is so important, why even make the movie.

Hipster movie.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> If letting go is so important, why even make the movie.
> 
> Like literally dumb.



What?


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What I didn't add to that post that I realized later is that Rose/Finn's seemingly 'pointless' arc adds to the central theme of letting go in TLJ as well.
> 
> Rose sees Finn as a legendary hero, and so Finn believes bog-standard action heroism is all that counts where you need to throw yourself into a cannon to stop the door from being blasted off, because that's what heroes do and how they've always done. But as they get to know each other in the second act, Rose decides to save Finn not only because she cares about him, but because she understands that the 'grand sacrifice' isn't necessarily the only way to win the war.



Or


*Spoiler*: __ 




Killing Snoke --- seriously. You build up a character like that to kill him that cheap ?
It makes the First Order pointless. Just another Empire redo.

While the freaking fan community spins stories around him rofl

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

>anything with Genghis Khana and Black Jar-jar
>relevant

El oh el


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What?


You heard me lol. 

None of the previous stuff even matters. It's just lazy story telling.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Mbxx said:


> Or
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Are we supposed to have spoilers tag in here? Shit.

And 
*Spoiler*: __ 



that's the exact opposite of an Empire redo.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Still can't respect Luke for trying to kill Ben. Your father was basically Hitler, dude.


Luke believed in Vader mainly because he was his father, not because he wanted to see good in everyone, at least going off from the RotJ movie. After all, he didn't care about the lives of Jabba the Hutt or the Emperor and their men.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What I didn't add to that post that I realized later is that Rose/Finn's seemingly 'pointless' arc adds to the central theme of letting go in TLJ as well.
> 
> Rose sees Finn as a legendary hero, and so Finn believes bog-standard action heroism is all that counts where you need to throw yourself into a cannon to stop the door from being blasted off, because that's what heroes do and how they've always done. But as they get to know each other in the second act, Rose decides to save Finn not only because she cares about him, but because she understands that the 'grand sacrifice' isn't necessarily the only way to win the war.


Her sister sacrificed herself at the start....

???

You're funny man.


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## Glued (Dec 17, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The Last Knight is the least grossing TF movie though. Nowhere near close to the last 3 and only comparable to the first one.



My point being, bad or good, this movie will be massive blockbuster and Disney can sit upon its laurels as the cash flows into their pockets.

I have a grim vision of the future.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> You heard me lol.
> 
> None of the previous stuff even matters. It's just lazy story telling.



I don't agree.

Like I said in my post, a lot of what fans _expected_ to be explained in TLJ - all those mysteries and open-ended questions, they don't actually add anything to the storytelling. They're pointless. That's why they were discarded. For example - everyone was awaiting the grand explanation of Snoke's origins. Darth Plagueis, first Jedi in history, whichever.

But does the film actually _gain_ anything from knowing who he is? Snoke is an evil old dude who manipulated Kylo's turn to the Dark Side. That's all we need to know. Does knowing that Snoke was the first Jedi enrich his character at that point? It really doesn't. It's the things fans want because, well, they're Star Wars fans, but they aren't needed to service the story.


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## JFF (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Are we supposed to have spoilers tag in here? Shit.
> 
> And
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



In conclusion. In the end, they are now the bad onces, hunting the rebels.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What I didn't add to that post that I realized later is that Rose/Finn's seemingly 'pointless' arc adds to the central theme of letting go in TLJ as well.
> 
> Rose sees Finn as a legendary hero, and so Finn believes bog-standard action heroism is all that counts where you need to throw yourself into a cannon to stop the door from being blasted off, because that's what heroes do and how they've always done. But as they get to know each other in the second act, Rose decides to save Finn not only because she cares about him, but because she understands that the 'grand sacrifice' isn't necessarily the only way to win the war.



the movie has no right to preach this when one of its central moments is Admiral Nightgown ramming her space dildo at lightspeed into the Supremacy.

An absurd act that is overshadowed by how shiny and cool it looks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> Her sister sacrificed herself at the start....
> 
> ???
> 
> You're funny man.



Yes, and thus that's part of her arc.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

They're pointless because they didn't wrap them up properly.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Luke believed in Vader mainly because he was his father, not because he wanted to see good in everyone, at least going off from the RotJ movie. After all, he didn't care about the lives of Jabba the Hutt or the Emperor and their men.


Ok, but shouldn't he give his Nephew just as much confidence?  Especially given how young and conflicted he was?


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## Euraj (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> Her sister sacrificed herself at the start....
> 
> ???
> 
> You're funny man.


Her sister was going to die anyway because of Poe's shitty orders. And that's part of what the other guy was talking about.

Don't get how not taking the most predictable route possible with these character arcs and actually lampshading the predictability of fandom demands is "lazy writing" compared to the alternative.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> They're pointless because they didn't wrap them up properly.



Not at all.

Snoke's history was never brought up as a loose thread. It's something _fans_ were interested in themselves on that throwaway line, "I've been around since the rise of the Empire" or whatever. It's not something that was built-up to be answered eventually. The identities of Rey's parents, however, were.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> Like I said in my post, a lot of what fans _expected_ to be explained in TLJ - all those mysteries and open-ended questions, they don't actually add anything to the storytelling. They're pointless. That's why they were discarded. For example - everyone was awaiting the grand explanation of Snoke's origins. Darth Plagueis, first Jedi in history, whichever.
> 
> But does the film actually _gain_ anything from knowing who he is? Snoke is an evil old dude who manipulated Kylo's turn to the Dark Side. That's all we need to know. Does knowing that Snoke was the first Jedi enrich his character at that point? It really doesn't. It's the things fans want because, well, they're Star Wars fans, but they aren't needed to service the story.



This isn't fucking minimalism film making. Please, details and conclusions are a *good thing*.


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Still can't respect Luke for trying to kill Ben. Your father was basically Hitler, dude.


Luke doing his best sarutobi impression


~Gesy~ said:


> Ok, but shouldn't he give his Nephew just as much confidence?  Especially given how young and conflicted he was?


luke basically did what his dad did and saw the future and fucked it all up


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> This isn't fucking minimalism film making. Please, details and conclusions are a *good thing*.



I'm not saying it's minimalism filmmaking. I'm saying there is no necessary conclusion or details to Snoke's identity because the importance of those details was lended by us, not TFA or TLJ.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Ok, but shouldn't he give his Nephew just as much confidence?  Especially given how young and conflicted he was?


I'm just addressing the other guy's implied idea that Luke was some kind of saint. Him wanting to redeem Vader is more selfish than people want to admit.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What I didn't add to that post that I realized later is that Rose/Finn's seemingly 'pointless' arc adds to the central theme of letting go in TLJ as well.
> 
> Rose sees Finn as a legendary hero, and so Finn believes bog-standard action heroism is all that counts where you need to throw yourself into a cannon to stop the door from being blasted off, because that's what heroes do and how they've always done. But as they get to know each other in the second act, Rose decides to save Finn not only because she cares about him, but because she understands that the 'grand sacrifice' isn't necessarily the only way to win the war.


ehhh rose's ramming + one-liner moment was dumb honestly 

like on the off chance that finn hadn't been vaporised by the beam and managed to crash into the battering ram cannon and disable it, that would've saved a lot of lives & bought a lot of time which is more than worth finn's life, at least in terms rose should be able to grasp as a resistance soldier. she was giving finn shit earlier for deserting the resistance because he cared more about rey but she made a similar choice in knocking him off-course because she had a crush on him 

and she can be like "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love." but that's just a fatuous rhetorical sleight of hand. when what you hate (the first order) is trying to kill what you love (presumably the resistance) you kinda _have_ to fight what you hate _in order to_ save what you love

so what im saying is rose was dumb and boring and her hot sister shouldve taken the spot instead

Reactions: Like 1


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

Yeah would have preferred he died a heroic martyr, but hurr durr gotta subvert expectations.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> the movie has no right to preach this when one of its central moments is Admiral Nightgown ramming her space dildo at lightspeed into the Supremacy.
> 
> An absurd act that is overshadowed by how shiny and cool it looks.


i cant believe she went and destroyed one of the enemy's significant military assets...its so fuckin absurd that she, as someone whose job it is to fight the war, would fight the war


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> ehhh rose's ramming + one-liner moment was dumb honestly
> 
> like on the off chance that finn hadn't been vaporised by the beam and managed to crash into the battering ram cannon and disable it, that would've saved a lot of lives & bought a lot of time which is more than worth finn's life, at least in terms rose should be able to grasp as a resistance soldier. she was giving finn shit earlier for deserting the resistance because he cared more about rey but she made a similar choice in knocking him off-course because she had a crush on him



I thought it was pretty obvious that Finn wasn't going to make it. And he would have been shot to shit by the walkers before coming close.

But Finn thought it was worth the try anyway because, you know, heroics.



> and she can be like "That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love." but that's just a fatuous rhetorical sleight of hand. when what you hate (the first order) is trying to kill what you love (presumably the resistance) you kinda _have_ to fight what you hate _in order to_ save what you love
> 
> so what im saying is rose was dumb and boring and her hot sister shouldve taken the spot instead



The line definitely could've been executed better, but I got what they were going for.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Rose's character, but she was fine. At first I thought her hot sister was Rose, and I was like damn she looked a lot worse in the poster lmao.


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

The entire packed audience cringed when she kissed Finn and passed out.

So bad.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

RemChu said:


> The entire packed audience cringed when she kissed Finn and passed out.
> 
> So bad.



LMAO yeah

Why did they have to include that.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Kiss was awkward as fuck. Smh


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## Magic (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Still can't respect Luke for trying to kill Ben. Your father was basically Hitler, dude.


Son of his best friend, his nephew too...felt OOC.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 17, 2017)

Am I missing the "Snoke buildup" in The Force Awakens? What buildup did he have aside from the few minutes he was on screen? Are many unwittingly referring to boundless levels of (somewhat unwarranted) fan hype? I think they are.

On the subject of unwarranted hype...what's the deal with Phasma, anyway?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2017)

Abrams will ruin episode 9

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

He had no buildup. Fans manufactured it for themselves, hence their disappointment.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Abrams will ruin episode 9



Yup. Dude's gonna pull some shit like resurrect Snoke or have Rey's parents actually be cousins of Kenobi!!!!


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

At least Phasma didn't get her nice and shiny suit dirty by tumbling down a trash shoot this time.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

Yeah, I don't get what the heck Disney tries to do with Phasma. I don't think her own _novel _and comic series came just as a mere result of fan demand. They seemed to have been part of the due package of supplementary material. Phasma's quick defeat by Finn is one of the things that shows that the script writers of the film don't know what the hell they wanted to do.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

Phasma's inclusion and defeat seemed like Rian just remembering she was in the previous film after writing 90% of it and throwing her in that last conflict.


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

Everything with Rose, Finn, Phasma, not-Lando 2.0 but more of a dick, and what not was fucking pointless. Tantamount to leading the audience on a string for a plot point that resolved itself in not being relevant in anything ultimately. Snoke's character lead to nothing and the entire action of the opening act of the film overshadows everything else that came after it.

Well then the whole "men are toxic" around women of authority.

Stupid theme.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Dont care what anyone says; Force Awakens was prettier and more fun of a movie than this one was .

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Can't wait for _Star Wars: Return of the Lens Flare._


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Dont care what anyone says; Force Awakens was prettier and more fun of a movie than this one was .



Prettier is arguable. They're both very pretty movies.

Force Awakens is more fun, but The Last Jedi is leaps and bounds a better movie.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Covenant: 
*Spoiler*: _Tagged in case someone still hasn't seen it_ 



Shaw killed off-screen, Engineers exterminated in a flashback, no sign of the "Deacon" alien.




Last Jedi: 
*Spoiler*: _As above_ 



Rey's parents were nobody, Snoke killed like a bitch (?), Luke dies without really doing anything.




It's a comparable anticlimax.

Of course Star Wars has a higher baseline quality than Alien, so of course LJ is not as bad as Covenant, but the -relative- decline from FA to LJ is like that from PR to AC.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Prettier is arguable. They're both very pretty movies.
> 
> Force Awakens is more fun, but The Last Jedi is leaps and bounds a better movie.



To each his own. The only scenes I'd consider to be "fun" was the space battles ( which could've been better) and the throne room scene.


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> the movie has no right to preach this when one of its central moments is Admiral Nightgown ramming her space dildo at lightspeed into the Supremacy.
> 
> An absurd act that is overshadowed by how shiny and cool it looks.


Why is it absurd? 

She's almost out of fuel and about to get shot down, she can either get blown up and do nothing or do something useful by taking out a ship as she dies instead of being shot down like a dog which is a guaranteed fact since they can track them and her only option of running is not an option.

The confusion she can cause by taking out the flagship of the enemy while they're shooting her friends out of the sky might let them escape.


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## Skaddix (Dec 17, 2017)

Speaking of that how do they run out of fuel? THis is sci fi not fucking modern day cars.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 17, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Speaking of that how do they run out of fuel? THis is sci fi not fucking modern day cars.


how is the concept of resources being non-infinite somehow voided because it's sci-fi

when has SW hinted that all ships can run forever 

the plot point of shields running out of power has been used plenty of times

Reactions: Like 1


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Speaking of that how do they run out of fuel? THis is sci fi not fucking modern day cars.


Forgot to fill the tank before they left the base and the guys who used it last didn't put any in.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

John Wick said:


> Why is it absurd?


because, not least of which, is the question: don't these massive super weapons have contingencies for just this type of Allahu Akbar bullshit?

and if they don't -which they should-, because the ships themselves travel at hyper-speeds (and at that speed even tiny space particles can tear you several new assholes)...why was the Empire ever even a thing? or any Star Destroyer?

_new Death Star under construction?_ meh, just ram a few cruisers into it. 

_Super Star Destroyer on our ass?_ have an X-wing cut right through it; no big deal.

thousands of years of space travel; yet no one has ever thought of Admiral Nightgown's plan. Nope. Never. No defense against _that_...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 17, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> because, not least of which, is the question: don't these massive super weapons have contingencies for just this type of Allahu Akbar bullshit?
> 
> and if they don't -which they should-, because the ships themselves travel at hyper-speeds (and at that speed even tiny space particles can tear you several new assholes)...why was the Empire ever even a thing? or any Star Destroyer?
> 
> ...



That is the problem. Yeah logically ramming at lightspeed or beyond works the problem is introducing it into your scifi means the question becomes why no one ever did it before


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## Glued (Dec 17, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> That is the problem. Yeah logically ramming at lightspeed or beyond works the problem is introducing it into your scifi means the question becomes why no one ever did it before



Now the question will be why doesn't everyone do it all the time from now on.


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## Skaddix (Dec 17, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Now the question will be why doesn't everyone do it all the time from now on.



Pretty Much Its Pandora's Box...it reminds of JJ letting transporters work during warp speed at long range...


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 17, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> That is the problem. Yeah logically ramming at lightspeed or beyond works the problem is introducing it into your scifi means the question becomes why no one ever did it before



Extreme debris scattering from the impact that would destroy one's own allies in a pitched fleet battle, the lack of any targets big enough to warrant such a tactic, and it is a suicide tactic of one's self and their vessel.

In the case of the film, only the _Raddus_ would have enough mass to pull off the tactic, with the _Supremacy _being the only target warranting such a tactic.  

The other concern may be precision - lining up one's hyper-space jump just right so it carves through the opposing ship.  The _Supremacy_, as a target, is hard to miss.  Even then, while the Raddus' passage cut the _Supremacy _in half, the impact did not obliterate the entire vessel.


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Now the question will be why doesn't everyone do it all the time from now on.


because they're not Japanese Zero pilots?


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Now the question will be why doesn't everyone do it all the time from now on.



Like I wrote a few pages back: why not light-speed torpedoes?

A light-speed engine is clearly small enough to fit aboard an X-Wing (since Luke travels alone between multiple systems in Empire), so it should be able to fit inside an oversized torpedo.

If you take away the cockpit and weapons of an X-Wing, what's left isn't too big. Small enough to be launched en masse from a cruiser.

Reactions: Like 2


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Like I wrote a few pages back: why not light-speed torpedoes?
> 
> A light-speed engine is clearly small enough to fit aboard an X-Wing (since Luke travels alone between multiple systems in Empire), so it should be able to fit inside an oversized torpedo.
> 
> If you take away the cockpit and weapons of an X-Wing, what's left isn't too big. Small enough to be launched en masse from a cruiser.


I mean you can argue financial costs, and it's limited tactical use. 


A lightspeed drive is probably an expensive piece of kit, and it's a single use item. 


Then there's the fact that it might not be as effective, this was a capital ship that they used way larger than an X wing, so the kinetic energy it's going to hit with is huge. 

Also if you make these torpedos then like do they stop when they penetrate or do they carry on travelling? If so that means they're likely to over penetrate and keep going, like they'd travel a fair distance before you'd be able to stop them (if you can transmit a signal to stop them if they survive I mean you'd make them out of sturdy stuff if it does survive impact it could case a lot of collateral damage so the empire would have no issue using them but the rebels wouldn't.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

why build a moon-sized, planet-killing energy weapon when projectile weaponry is still a thing?

_"Is Alderaan getting you down? Well, just ram a hyperspace cannonball into it."_

i know we got a semi-retro aesthetic going on here but these civilizations have been in space for longer than we've been out of caves. Lightspeed bullets can't be a thing 9 movies in...



John Wick said:


> Probably, but it mean they kind of did think of this plan before when they rammed the star destroyer into the shield in rogue one, they also rammed an A wing into a star destroyer in return on the jedi the executor iirc.
> 
> Also this isn't a fighter or a cruiser it's a capital ship and it's huge, so it's going to have a crazy amount of energy when it hits at lightspeed, more than a single particle and to take out something of that side well if they could do that in the first place why didn't they do it earlier.


none of those craft were moving at intangible, relativistic speeds that the tech should account for...
there are any number of ways the scene could have gone down without introducing light speed ramming; an aspect that pretty much tells you _"everything before, during and after this is bullshit."_


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

To be fair they got the idea from Rogue One, which got it from the internet.

The internet was saying "what would happen if you came out of lightspeed right on top of another ship?"

Rogue One answered that the smaller ship gets crushed, as shown by Vader's star destroyer casually running over somebody.

When fans thought that was awesome, the Last Jedi writers asked themselves "what if you did that on purpose? With bigger ships?"


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> To be fair they got the idea from Rogue One, which got it from the internet.
> 
> The internet was saying "what would happen if you came out of lightspeed right on top of another ship?"
> 
> ...


Oh yeah I forgot about vader doing that at the end of it.\

I mean it's like hitting a small animal with your car roadkill.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

Lightspeed weaponry would change the game.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 17, 2017)

it's one of those things you just don't answer_or simply wave away with unfathomable shield tech...

because otherwise, nothing works.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

John Wick said:


> Oh yeah I forgot about vader doing that at the end of it.\
> 
> I mean it's like hitting a small animal with your car roadkill.



That scene wasn't meant to fundamentally alter the rules of Star Wars, though. It's there to:

1. Adress the interesting fan thought experiment of what would happen if not all pilots were so respectful (or skilled) as the ones in previous films, who always drop to sublight at a safe distance from other vessels in the system.

2. Establish Vader's personality as a badass who doesn't give a darn. Like when the Terminator drives over (or steps on?) a kid's toy car in the first movie of that franchise.


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Lightspeed weaponry would change the game.


A laser travels at the speed of light..........


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 17, 2017)

John Wick said:


> A laser travels at the speed of light..........


Not in Star wars.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)




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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

The ship that got roadkilled looked like it didn't speed up with the others.


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

"Its okay that we introduced a plot device that makes no sense with the lightspeed ramming thing that breaks all the rules of the previous films, because it looks *cool*"

Fucking brainlets  who eat this shit up

Reactions: Funny 3


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

if ramming at slow speeds works why wouldn't ramming at faster speeds? I don't remember the rule that said the bigger you are the faster you travel the less damage you could inflict if you hit something.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 17, 2017)

John Wick said:


> The ship that got roadkilled looked like it didn't speed up with the others.



And also Vader was obviously decelerating because he's visible before impact. So not sure what would have happened at full speed.

But again SW isn't hard science fiction and the writers aren't concerned with the physics as long as they get a cool visual.


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## John Wick (Dec 17, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> And also Vader was obviously decelerating because he's visible before impact. So not sure what would have happened at full speed.
> 
> But again SW isn't hard science fiction and the writers aren't concerned with the physics as long as they get a cool visual.


probably what happens when a deer gets hit by a train

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2017)

John Wick said:


> if ramming at slow speeds works why wouldn't ramming at faster speeds? I don't remember the rule that said the bigger you are the faster you travel the less damage you could inflict if you hit something.



Because when you jump to lightspeed, you are removed from the byronic (physical) universe and in a separate dimension during lightspeed unless gravity stops you by making a fucking mass shadow. But don't worry, you can disregard this for rule of cool and completely make everything else in the past films a moot point to just ram things going 2fast2furious since you seem to think this is okay.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 17, 2017)

The First Order just needed to ram one Star Destroyer into the Resistance fleet and be over with it. Holdo's scene is visually stunning but utterly stupid in the narrative.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 17, 2017)

Admiral Holdo was a silly character. Akbar got killed offscreen so we could get a patriarchy lesson on why Poe is sexist in space or whatever 
Wasn't Mon Mothma a leader of the rebellion
Its not like fans aren't used to seeing women lead in SW 
Kinda pointless to tear Poe down like that with her in an effort to push a message that wasn't needed


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 17, 2017)

Fang said:


> Because when you jump to lightspeed, you are removed from the byronic (physical) universe and in a separate dimension during lightspeed unless gravity stops you by making a fucking mass shadow.




Every ship observed jumping into Hyperspace is always shown accelerating at an immense pace before actually entering Hyperspace.  In "Rogue One", we see them initiate the jump to Hyperspace to escape the destruction of Jedah, and it shows the ship shooting out of the atmosphere.  

In other words, the _Raddus _was still _accelerating towards light-speed_ to enter Hyperspace, when it collided with the _Supremacy.

_

Reactions: Useful 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

I severely disliked how the code breaker betrayed Finn and Rose, and I disliked even more how he apparently never suffered any punishment for his betrayal; I suppose that he may have died when Holdo rammed the flagship, but it would have been nice if that had been explicitly shown, since that is now a loose end.

I do not believe that Kylo Ren is good material for a final villain, since he is too reckless and impulsive, while final villains are usually calm and controlling, like Palpatine, with rare notable exceptions, such as Kefka in _Final Fantasy VI,_ and Kylo Ren is no Kefka, in my mind.



Skaddix said:


> No wonder Ridley Scott is bitter....George is a Fucking Billionaire.



That does not mean that Lucas's films are better.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I severely disliked how the code breaker betrayed Finn and Rose, and I disliked even more how he apparently never suffered any punishment for his betrayal; I suppose that he may have died when Holdo rammed the flagship, but it would have been nice if that had been explicitly shown, since that is now a loose end.
> 
> I do not believe that Kylo Ren is good material for a final villain, since he is too reckless and impulsive, while final villains are usually calm and controlling, like Palpatine, with rare notable exceptions, such as Kefka in _Final Fantasy VI,_ and Kylo Ren is no Kefka, in my mind.



I loved that. Sometimes people are just assholes and get away with the scummiest of shit.

There is no final villain template. Ren works IMO because he has a personal history with Rey and that'll heighten the emotional stakes and tension of their inevitable duel in IX considerably. Cackling masterminds have been done before in this franchise. What Ren brings to the table is a whole lot more interesting.

The fact that I cannot guess anything to what'll happen in IX is so exciting. Star Wars needed a jolt like this. Thank God for Rian.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> There is no final villain template. Ren works IMO because he has a personal history with Rey and that'll heighten the emotional stakes and tension of their inevitable duel in IX considerably. Cackling masterminds have been done before in this franchise. What Ren brings to the table is a whole lot more interesting.



It raises the question of why anyone would willing follow a psychopathic man-child such as Kylo Ren; if he cannot control his own emotions, how can he expect to lead an entire army? I know that I would not willing follow him, if I had that choice.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 17, 2017)

Matta Clatta said:


> Admiral Holdo was a silly character. Akbar got killed offscreen so we could get a patriarchy lesson on why Poe is sexist in space or whatever
> Wasn't Mon Mothma a leader of the rebellion
> Its not like fans aren't used to seeing women lead in SW
> Kinda pointless to tear Poe down like that with her in an effort to push a message that wasn't needed



Huh? Poe was being punished because he was hot headed and a short sighted rogue, not because he was sexist. Holdo was trying to teach him this, albeit...very badly...I didn't really like the character and wish Akbar got her spot as well, but there was a character driven point to it. But like every other plan in "The Last Jedi", it went wrong. If I took any issue with this, it's that Poe was so easily forgiven, even by her. If she acted disdainful or at least wary of him at the end, in contrast to how Leia views him, it probably would've gone down more smoothly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 17, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> It raises the question of why anyone would willing follow a psychopathic man-child such as Kylo Ren; if he cannot control his own emotions, how can he expect to lead an entire army? I know that I would not willing follow him, if I had that choice..



I was under the impression that your point might be part of the conflict in Episode 9. The final scene of Kylo and the looks his men were giving him suggested they didn't respect him. They might end up favoring Hux, which would be funny, as early in the movie a point was made that they didn't really respect him either. 

Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader or an Emperor, but he doesn't need to be. Remember that Vader was just a traditional villain, who gradually evolved into a full fledged character and Kylo Ren seems to be the opposite. He's a full fledged character gradually becoming into a traditional villain. They also keep making a point that Ren is his own worst enemy and his potential is being held back by the 'temptations of the light'. If he overcomes that, who knows what he might achieve.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 17, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I loved that. Sometimes people are just assholes and get away with the scummiest of shit.



Yes, but this is a fictional story, where everything is written by a writer, and the audiences expect certain things, so I am expecting the code breaker to get his comeuppance in episode IX.



ATastyMuffin said:


> The fact that I cannot guess anything to what'll happen in IX is so exciting. Star Wars needed a jolt like this. Thank God for Rian.



I still think that this franchise should have been allowed to vanish into memory after _Revenge of the Sith;_ I am enjoying these new films, but, like so many other recent films, they are merely attempts to profit from old franchises of which people have fond memories. As much as I wish that _Gargoyles, Swat Kats,_ and _Reboot_ had the level of fame and recognition that mainstream franchises have, I also think that it is good that they are obscure, so that they will not be dragged out for profit, and it also makes me feel special for being fond of them when not everyone has heard of them.


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## Skaddix (Dec 17, 2017)

Never thought I want the old EU back lol...Legends

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Wait why are some youtube reviewers claiming Holdo and Leia had an implied lesbian relationship

Was there something I'm missing here


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## Indra (Dec 18, 2017)

I fucking hate Rose.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, but this is a fictional story, where everything is written by a writer, and the audiences expect certain things, so I am expecting the code breaker to get his comeuppance in episode IX.



Maybe.

They might just drop it like I'm expecting Snoke to drop completely from the picture in IX.



> I still think that this franchise should have been allowed to vanish into memory after _Revenge of the Sith;_ I am enjoying these new films, but, like so many other recent films, they are merely attempts to profit from old franchises of which people have fond memories. As much as I wish that _Gargoyles, Swat Kats,_ and _Reboot_ had the level of fame and recognition that mainstream franchises have, I also think that it is good that they are obscure, so that they will not be dragged out for profit, and it also makes me feel special for being fond of them when not everyone has heard of them.



If you had to have the franchise vanish at all, why vanish _after_ the prequels?

Like, does anyone not remember Jar Jar stepped in poopy jokes? I cannot grasp this take that _Disney_ are the ones having ruined this franchise somehow. Character assassinations have existed in Star Wars since Anakin's abrupt and laughable turn to the Dark Side where he murders children in the span of ten minutes. Inclusion of attempted mascot characters to advocate consumerism (lol at this complaint) have existed since Ewoks and Jar Jar. 'Mary Sues' have existed since Anakin blew up the discount Death Star when he was eight years old. I hate sand is one of the corniest scenes in film history yet it's _Disney_ that are the corporate villains destroying our childhoods?

Do people just not remember how terrible the prequels were? It confounds the shit out of me.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 18, 2017)

The North Remembers


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

Okay, I saw it.

Just like TFA I felt nothing. Surprisingly, I didn't hate it, but I just felt nothing. It's a movie that you'd watch but forgot you even watched it, but because it's SWs it'll stick in your head a bit.

I absolutely hated what they did with Luke, but my guy Yoda, though. Decent touch there. Hearing Luke's stories were more interesting than the actual film itself. It honestly just made me want a film centered around Ben Solo and Luke with Luke teaching Ben and having him be the new lead Jedi. Not with Adam Driver casted ofc.

Snoke was disappointing. He amounted to nothing overall and we still know nothing about him just like in TFA.

Poe is a fucking idiot. It felt like the entire movie was made to set him up and then knock him down. Kinda felt like some weird man hate shit.

Finn was still just kinda there like in TFA. I liked his moments more in TFA. His concept is cool but they do fuck all with it. Idk why they chose to go with a generic love interest route with him. There wasn't nearly enough time for an organic relationship for them.

Phasma is WORSE than Bobba. Unlike Bobba she actually has power and command but fucks up even more. I thought the directors or someone said she'd have better roles? She fucking sucks.

Rey was barely in the movie and her training with Luke was sloppy and felt like the script for it wasn't finished. The force push lightsaber scene with her and Kylo was cool at least. Still, don't like her or the actor, but I could tolerate her more here than in TFA.


Kylo...he's Kylo  I don't think I'll ever be able to take this dude seriously. I don't even have anything to say about him tbh. I don't find any of his tantrums entertaining at all.

There was too much comedy. It didn't fit the tone at all. Opting to have Luke undermind an important moment like Rey giving him the lightsaber was dumb. Turning him into a cynical old hermit was dumb. It was all fucking dumb.  That's not Luke Skywalker. Idk who that was.

Basically I give it a 5 Superman Leia/10.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

Shit, I think I liked TFA more. Everything Abrams setup was not followed through with this sequel.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Wait why are some youtube reviewers claiming Holdo and Leia had an implied lesbian relationship
> 
> Was there something I'm missing here



So it comes from a novel:

"'A pair of pretty dark eyes.' Then Amilyn thought about that for a moment. 'Or more than a pair, if you're into Grans. Or Aqualish, or Talz. Or even - ' 'That's all right!'  Leia said through laughter. 'It's just humanoid males for me.' 'Really? That feels so limiting.' 'Thank goodness it's a big galaxy.'"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Shit, I think I liked TFA more. Everything Abrams setup was not followed through with this sequel.


That's what I'm saying!

The movie lost me completely  by the final act  and I just wanted it to be over already so I can go home.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Supposedly, the rotten tomatoes score is fake. People are making dupe accounts to help keep the score low.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't think anyone is making 60,000+ dupes to go out of their way to shit on TLJ.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Given how hardcore this fanbase can be, It wouldn't surprise me if many people are. I'm just telling you what I've read.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Apparently people on 4chan admitted to creating dupes to give Star Wars a negative score.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

The RT audience score is surely subject to shit ton of brigading. Other audience scores have shown that people really enjoy the movie. We'll also see the best measure of its word-of-mouth next weekend, based on how hard or softly it drops at the box office.


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## Atlas (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Apparently people on 4chan admitted to creating dupes to give Star Wars a negative score.



Ehh, score seems well deserved tbh.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Apparently people on 4chan admitted to creating dupes to give Star Wars a negative score.



Again, no way in hell did anyone even with VPNs, proxies, and plain account-swapping manufacture tens of thousands of fake accounts in a handful of days on a board in particular which you aren't even naming that numbers less than a few hundred unique visitors (board unique IPs are easily accessed and available) have that sort of tangible influence on RT.

Even if each one made two fake accounts to low ball TLJ, we are talking out of 103,000 reviews on the fan side here. Its not even 1% of the total weighed score.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

I can feel Fang literally eviscerating this guy.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

I find it funnier how even people who defended TFA are shitting on TLJ in their reviews.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> I find it funnier how even people who defended TFA are shitting on TLJ in their reviews.



Eh I can kinda see why granted I shitted on TFA but I can understand the point look the PT didnt work so the best way to reboot is open up with a knockoff of ANH....I dont agree but I can see the point.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> I can feel Fang literally eviscerating this guy.



Solid video. Good summary of why a lot of the complaints against TLJ don't hold water.

I think that was Angry Joe in the vid? Never watched the guy, but he seems obnoxious in those few seconds he's featured.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

How about it was Racist Shitshow? @ATastyMuffin Defend Finn lets hear it make it good. Shit Naruto had less racist Black characters and well all know how Racist Japan is. I trade Killerbee and his bad rap in second for Finn.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> How about it was Racist Shitshow? @ATastyMuffin Defend Finn lets hear it make it good. Shit Naruto had less racist Black characters and well all know how Racist Japan is. I trade Killerbee and his bad rap in second for Finn.



I'm unfamiliar with those complaints, can you sum them up?


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Have you read this fucking thread? @ATastyMuffin Jesus Christ, how can you say that video makes a good argument when you cant even be bothered to read some of the pages in this fucking thread.


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Have you read this fucking thread? @ATastyMuffin Jesus Christ, how can you say that video makes a good argument when you cant even be bothered to read some of the pages in this fucking thread.



Maybe like the last ten pages? Haven't come across 'TLJ is racist' tbh, this is the first I'm hearing of it. The video also didn't mention it.

What are people saying about Finn's portrayal being racist?


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Lets start with these 10 @ATastyMuffin 

1) Force Sensitive? No, Random White Broom Boi gets it. Anyone can have the force isn’t it so hopeful. Yeah anyone who is white.
2) Less Comedic Relief? Fuck That Endless Comic Relief. Opens the movie banging his head and leaking water. Tasered Twice. 
3) Actual Character Development? Hell No lets reset him and repeat.
4) An Arc? Nope nothing he does matters and Rose is Rey but worse now she gives life lessons and she is not the lead. So he is in the B-Plot Now.
5) Can he hang out with Poe? Nope we are killing FinnPoe while Finn and Poe barely interact
6) FinnRey? Not only will they be separated the whole movie while she gets wet over Kylo, they get no fucking lines when they meet each other again
7) Well he was pretty good with a blaster some of that? Nope, he will never use a blaster at all in this movie. So much for commando or hawkeye.
8) A satisfying conclusion to the Phasma fight? Nope no emotional heft between them and he wins due to luck. Books Dont matter
9) Interaction with the Luke or Leia? Hahahaha Hell No.
10) Well shit if you are not going to do anything with him how about a Heroic Death? Hell No, also let me kneecap FinnRey. Also come on Rose sometimes you gotta save the ones you love by killing the people actively trying to kill you.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Creative 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Lets start with these 10 @ATastyMuffin
> 
> 1) Force Sensitive? No, Random White Broom Boi gets it. Anyone can have the force isn’t it so hopeful. Yeah anyone who is white.



While I'm disappointed that Finn didn't turn out to be Force-sensitive in TFA, why is that in of itself racist?

As long as he's a prominent main character with good development, it doesn't matter if he's a Jedi or not. Also, the orphan boy is portrayed by Temirlan Blaev. He's from Kazakhstan.



> 2) Less Comedic Relief? Fuck That Endless Comic Relief. Opens the movie banging his head and leaking water. Tasered Twice.



How is that racist?



> 3) Actual Character Development? Hell No lets reset him and repeat.



This was disappointing and I wish TLJ did more with him. But that's a fault on the writers that can't be pointed to and said, 'that's racist'. 



> 4) An Arc? Nope nothing he does matters and Rose is Rey but worse now she gives life lessons and she is not the lead. So he is in the B-Plot Now.



This is the same complaint as 3.



> 5) Can he hang out with Poe? Nope we are killing FinnPoe while Finn and Poe barely interact



How is this racist? 



> 6) FinnRey? Not only will they be separated the whole movie while she gets wet over Kylo, they get no fucking lines when they meet each other again



How is this racist? 



> 7) Well he was pretty good with a blaster some of that? Nope, he will never use a blaster at all in this movie. So much for commando or hawkeye.



How is this racist? 



> 8) A satisfying conclusion to the Phasma fight? Nope no emotional heft between them and he wins due to luck. Books Dont matter



How is this racist? 



> 9) Interaction with the Luke or Leia? Hahahaha Hell No.



How is *this* racist? 



> 10) Well shit if you are not going to do anything with him how about a Heroic Death? Hell No, also let me kneecap FinnRey. Also come on Rose sometimes you gotta save the ones you love by killing the people actively trying to kill you.



So...you were unhappy with Finn's character work so therefore you wanted him to off himself at the end instead of live on to IX where he can potentially receive more development?

Are you being for real? All your complaints are: "My expectations weren't fulfilled with Finn, so therefore TLJ was a racist shitshow."

Are you drunk right now?

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

How is not racist that the Black Character doesnt get fucking arc gets demoted to the B-Plot and does a lot of random body humor for no fucking reason and cannot do anything without Rose telling him to.  Jesus Christ. I am drunk your blind.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> How is not racist that the Black Character doesnt get fucking arc gets demoted to the B-Plot and does a lot of random body humor for no fucking reason and cannot do anything without Rose telling him to.  Jesus Christ. I am drunk your blind.



None of that is inherently racist. This is like saying the MCU is racist because War Machine and Falcon are sidekicks to white leads. Do you understand what racism is? Finn defeated Phasma, so yes he did accomplish things about 'Rose telling him to'.

It's actually pretty insulting to have you try to argue on behalf of minorities without even comprehending what the fuck you're preaching.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HiroshiSenju (Dec 18, 2017)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Magic (Dec 18, 2017)

Old but yeah.


He mentions Transformers, lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> None of that is inherently racist. This is like saying the MCU is racist because War Machine and Falcon are sidekicks to white leads. Do you understand what racism is? Finn defeated Phasma, so yes he did accomplish things about 'Rose telling him to'.
> 
> It's actually pretty insulting to have you try to argue on behalf of minorities without even comprehending what the fuck you're preaching.



Yeah expect they were never sold as leads unlike Finn. And they are still more effective then Finn incidentally in combat..

He only beat Phasma cause Phasma was trying to kill Rose and thought Finn was dead. Not a great example of Finn doing something with no Rose.

Also I don't remember Falcon or War Machine doing any embarrassing comic relief. Granted I don't remember the Iron Man Movies well at this point but I do remember the Captain America movies. Falcon was not tasered, slapped, banging his head randomly or walking around looking ridiculous while leaking water. He was also not a janitor and it wasn't continually referenced. Even after Fan Response yeah lets have less of that Janitor and Comic Relief BS. 

Ah yes Lecture me oh White Man on Racism.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

the worst part is that john boyega is actually a good actor that could do so much more if they allowed him to.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Supposedly, the rotten tomatoes score is fake. People are making dupe accounts to help keep the score low.


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Weiss said:


>



Eh there are dupe accounts on both sides...oh god I sound like Trump.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

either post proof or fake news. i don't doubt that there are dupes, there always are, but all of them?..gonna need to see evidence.

besides, the divided seems pretty real to me when looking at other parts of the internet.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Eh there are dupe accounts on both sides...oh god I sound like Trump.


SAD! FAKE NEWS!!!


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## MartialHorror (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't know...Finn might be silly and a bit clumsy, but at no point did I ever think to myself "Black caricature". I have seen plenty of those too, as they loved to dominate the 90's slasher genre. His goofiness could've easily been transplanted onto a white character. If anything, I think calling that 'racist' might contribute to Hollywood backing away from racial diversity out of fear of being accused as such. 

Also, you complain that he's a 'space janitor', as if the other main characters haven't come from 'NOTHING', the entire point of the f@cking film. I get that you didn't like the movie or Finn in it, but at worst, it's bad writing. Not racist.


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## Yak (Dec 18, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

a wise saying:
"the biggest haters of Star Wars are Star Wars fans"

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I don't know...Finn might be silly and a bit clumsy, but at no point did I ever think to myself "Black caricature". I have seen plenty of those too, as they loved to dominate the 90's slasher genre. His goofiness could've easily been transplanted onto a white character. If anything, I think calling that 'racist' might contribute to Hollywood backing away from racial diversity out of fear of being accused as such.
> 
> Also, you complain that he's a 'space janitor', as if the other main characters haven't come from 'NOTHING', the entire point of the f@cking film. I get that you didn't like the movie or Finn in it, but at worst, it's bad writing. Not racist.



Right its our fault Hollywood is racist cause we want good representation ... those mental gymnastics are impressive.

Yeah it could have been put on a white character but it wasn't. And I argue no white lead would ever get this type of shitty treatment. 

Yeah the other characters come from nothing but they get actual skills Rey has all the skills, Poe is an Ace Pilot, and Rose is a Mechanic....Finn is? A space janitor.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Weiss said:


> a wise saying:
> "the biggest haters of Star Wars are Star Wars fans"
> 
> *from George Lucas*



FTFY

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Yeah Poe will be running a new Republic....Rey a new Jedi Order and Finn....


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

A wiser saying: "Never pay attention to what a brony says"

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Weiss said:


> a wise saying:
> "the biggest haters of Star Wars are Star Wars fans"


tru but im still gonna dislike


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> A wiser saying: "Never pay attention to what a brony says"



Brony's are all potential pedos as far as I am concerned.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

you know maybe i wouldn't even be that salty about the whole finn situation if they didn't purposefully try to mislead us with him but they did so here we are

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yak (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> you know maybe i wouldn't even be that salty about the whole finn situation if they didn't purposefully try to mislead us with him but they did so here we are



Gotta agree. First movie was actually promising. Feels like they played out. I mean, at this rate the guy becomes this trilogy's JarJar Binks equivalent


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## Jake CENA (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> the worst part is that john boyega is actually a *good actor* that could do so much more if they allowed him to.




GOOSEBUMPS


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> GOOSEBUMPS


?


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Chinese haven't eaten up the last movie or TFA despite the Mouse's hopes to do so. They won't with this one anyway. This crap won't make it for that yellow market.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Chinese haven't eaten up the last movie or TFA despite the Mouse's hopes to do so. They won't with this one anyway. This crap won't make it for that yellow market.



Not gonna stop them from trying. Disney really wants to secure that market.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Chinese audiences.


it's frightening how two single words can explain so much.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

this has a china gril in a prominent role, it will probably do better than TFA in China


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

good box office for a good movie

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Mider T (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Brony's


Bronys* or even Bronies*


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-negative-fan-reactions-rotten-tomatoes-score



> These MAGA-esque fanboys—the same that called Rey a “Mary Sue” or lost their marbles over the 2016 all-female Ghostbusters reboot before it even hit theaters


 

@Skaddix so apparently we really are alt-right trumpers


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## Mider T (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Chinese haven't eaten up the last movie or TFA despite the Mouse's hopes to do so. They won't with this one anyway. This crap won't make it for that yellow market.


As @mr_shadow said, they don't have the nostalgic history with Star Wars that the rest of the world does due to China being closed off from America cinema at the time of the original trilogy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 18, 2017)

Weiss said:


> this has a china gril in a prominent role, it will probably do better than TFA in China



The actress playing Rose is Vietnamese-Canadian.



Mider T said:


> As @mr_shadow said, they don't have the nostalgic history with Star Wars that the rest of the world does due to China being closed off from America cinema at the time of the original trilogy.



Yep. The way it's been told to me, American films were completely banned from Chinese screens 1950-1994. 

And even after the blanket ban was lifted, the reintroduction was probably gradual, starting with just a few select films shown in a limited number of trial cities like the "Special Economic Zone" Shenzhen. That's usually the way they do things.

The first American blockbuster to get a wide release and become a national sensation was Titanic (1997). So in general when talking to a random Chinese person you should assume that they haven't seen anything made before '97. Only the really dedicated cinema nerds have the stamina to go back and watch the nearly 50-year backlog of classics their country missed out on.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Mider T said:


> As @mr_shadow said, they don't have the nostalgic history with Star Wars that the rest of the world does due to China being closed off from America cinema at the time of the original trilogy.



Thanks you walking robot, not like that isn't obvious.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Thanks you walking robot, not like that isn't obvious.


I guarantee you that most of the people in this thread didn't know that.Kappa


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

I didnt

Reactions: Like 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

I sure as hell  didn't .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Mider T said:


> I guarantee you that most of the people in this thread didn't know that.Kappa



Doubt.tiff


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

i did. i saw an interesting video about how the closest thing chinese people had to star wars was a hilariously inaccurate bootleg comicbook retelling the story.

found it:

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-negative-fan-reactions-rotten-tomatoes-score
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MAGA, BUILD THE WALL, FAUX NEWS, LOCK HER UP

Trump knows how to make a Slogan that is the only thing he knows how to build.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> MAGA, BUILD THE WALL, FAUX NEWS, LOCK HER UP
> 
> Trump knows how to make a Slogan that is the only thing he knows how to build.


E;R, who seems to have the most viewed negative review of TFA in YouTube at the 2 million mark, is a Trumper though.


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> E;R, who seems to have the most viewed negative review of TFA in YouTube at the 2 million mark, is a Trumper though.



I have no idea who E;R, is but I am not sure what your point is...movies are more akin to sports ergo if a Trumper cheers for the same sports team as me should I not cheer for that team as well? Ergo I can agree with a Trumper that TLJ is shit that has nothing to do with whether I support Trump...And I think I have made it quite clear that I don't support Trump here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> i did. i saw an interesting video about how the closest thing chinese people had to star wars was a hilariously inaccurate bootleg comicbook retelling the story.
> 
> found it:



The art isn't half bad, actually. It kind of looks like Judge Dredd?


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I have no idea who E;R, is but I am not sure what your point is...movies are more akin to sports ergo if a Trumper cheers for the same sports team as me should I not cheer for that team as well? Ergo I can agree with a Trumper that TLJ is shit that has nothing to do with whether I support Trump...And li think I have made it quite clear that I don't support Trump here.


This is E;R

And no, what I'm saying is that it is easy to think there is a high correlation between Trumpers and haters of this film even if that's not true.


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

@Mabel Gleeful 

Well I am not watch that shit what are Trumpers mad about Kylo got all the good material? Holdo being in charge I suppose?


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## Lance (Dec 18, 2017)

Oh my good god. This thing was terrible. Jesus Christ.


----------



## Dayscanor (Dec 18, 2017)




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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> ...? Why?


Gonna have to structure your question better. Why what? I explained why I felt that was the case in my post.


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

Still the best thing to come out of live action Disney SW

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Dec 18, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Gonna have to structure your question better. Why what? I explained why I felt that was the case in my post.



Like I'm confused as to why you think a woman being right over a dude means it's a 'man-hating' scene, like bro are that you insecure lol.

Also:



 

This is real. Attack of the Bots.


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## JFF (Dec 18, 2017)

Oh -- just seen the Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes user reactions. At least it was not just me 

I thought a little bit after the movie and noticed something else. For me it was not very important, but it maybe explains the politics within the movie (I think so). Look at the female and male characters in compare. It might be my imagination. Every female character is shown as an action hero, that can outdo any man and while the male cast ...

Kylo -> Acts like a child. Best moment, when he back-stabbed his mentor.

Finn -> I will not comment him (considering the ongoing discussion).

The Han Solo replacement -> He got one scene in the beginning. After that he is the one character who knows it all better and is probably right from the beginning ?

Hux > The side joke character.

Even Skywalker. He is certainly not the hero within the movie. He has the end scene to repent -- but without that ?

Did I miss anybody ?

And yes @ATastyMuffin -> give me a minute 

Once again; the fans probably expected likely more and therefore the diverse reactions. You just expect more. I cannot help that as well. It is difficult with Star Wars since many people grew up with the old films.

In the end: I hope JJ can deliver a masterpiece for the last film.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Like I'm confused as to why you think a woman being right over a dude means it's a 'man-hating' scene, like bro are that you insecure lol.


It's the setup. None of it's a coincidence. It wasn't written that way just out of pure chance.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm not so sure Poe was meant to be a Han replacement. Rey kinda does both the Luke and Han roles. He's just a POV for the rebels if anything.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Han is a everyman pessimistic character.  No one on the new cast really fit that role but Finn come closest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

Finn doesn't know what the hell he's trying to do

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Han is a everyman pessimistic character.  No one on the new cast really fit that role but Finn come closest.


i wish 



Imagine said:


> Finn doesn't know what the hell he's trying to do


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Poe is most like Luke given the fact that both have a reckless "Kick the door down" reputation until they're later humbled.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

I think y'all too hard on Finn. 

Yes he mopped floors but he was capable enough to be a part of Kylo's squad in the beginning of TFA. And he doesn't come off as some scrub.

I just think the disappointment comes from the trolling that occurred last year.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 18, 2017)

yeah Finn is a 'good actor'


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Using a weapon he was unfamiliar with.

He later faired better against Kylo than he should have. (Yeah I know Kylo was injured at the time but he still should've been shrugged off)


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Han is a everyman pessimistic character.  No one on the new cast really fit that role but Finn come closest.



He's the new Jar-Jar of the Sequels.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't hate Finn as a character, but I do hate the squandered potential of his character. Instead of building up the showdown with Phasma we get another casino/bar scene and a rushed romance subplot.

I probably like him the most out of the new cast, but still can't be bothered to care about him enough.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> He still saved Poe, helped Rey get the Millennium Falcon to Han, killed a bunch of stormtroopers in the cantina battle and lowered the shields of Starkiller Base. He definitely did far much more than in TLJ where his whole subplot is the most irrelevant and useless story thread in all of the SW films. I felt his character is not as jokey as in TFA though, which I think is an improvement.


Really? I thought he was more Jokey here.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Using a weapon he was unfamiliar with.
> 
> He later faired better against Kylo than he should have. (Yeah I know Kylo was injured at the time but he still should've been shrugged off)


nahhhhhhhhh fam the lightsaber wasn't radically different than the stick the stormtrooper was using which finn should know how to use as well.

there simply is no excuse here. you can downplay it all day long but he still got his ass beat in under 15 seconds by a random throwaway stormtrooper. that very notion is just pathetic


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm more disappointed in Geneal Hux.  Who was made to be a joke from beginning to end-- than I am Finn.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> nahhhhhhhhh fam the lightsaber wasn't radically different than the stick the stormtrooper was using which finn should know how to use as well.
> 
> there simply is no excuse here. you can downplay it all day long but he still got his ass beat in under 15 seconds by a random throwaway stormtrooper. that very notion is just pathetic



>based T8R
>throwaway

He is unironically the most kino character in the Sequels so far.


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Really? I thought he was more Jokey here.


I don't remember anything comparable to his jokes about going back to Jakku, Rey having a boyfriend or being a big deal in the Resistance. The closest is him saying "I'm the guy who used to mop them" but he said it normally and is not nearly as comedic as when he said he was a janitor in Starkiller Base.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> >based T8R
> >throwaway
> 
> He is unironically the most kino character in the Sequels so far.


TR-8R*

and yeah he was cool for the 20 seconds he appeared lmao


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> E;R, who seems to have the most viewed negative review of TFA in YouTube at the 2 million mark, is a Trumper though.



Ahhh that guy is a legit white nationalist, you know? 

I did watch some of his content at first and thought he had insightful and entertaining commentary...but then it became abundantly clear he bitches about EVERYTHING being SJW pandering if it so much as has a brown person in a leading role.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

would've made for a cool boba fett stand in actually


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> TR-8R*
> 
> and yeah he was cool for the 20 seconds he appeared lmao


Watch as FN-2199 (that's his name, they even nicknamed him Nines) gets a Maul-esque revival.


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> He's the new Jar-Jar of the Sequels.



George got called Racist for less at least he had the decency to slap some CGI and Prosthetics on his comic relief.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> would've made for a cool boba fett stand in actually



The Boba Fett side-story movie is still in the works last I checked.



Seto Kaiba said:


> Ahhh that guy is a legit white nationalist, you know?
> 
> I did watch some of his content at first and thought he had insightful and entertaining commentary...but then it became abundantly clear he bitches about EVERYTHING being SJW pandering if it so much as has a brown person in a leading role.



Fun fact: Admiral Tumblr is apparently a dyke according to the novels. Regardless of PoC shit (funny how First Order is filled with both whites as well as clearly scene background officers being Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and Far Eastern Asians), the only issue I have is the film has a strong slant toward "strong women" picking up after men.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Watch as FN-2199 (that's his name, they even nicknamed him Nines) gets a Maul-esque revival.


he'll always be TR-8R in my heart


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm pretty sure they also wanted to make the East Asian women (Rose and Paige) into a lesbian couple but backtracked at the last second and made them sisters instead. That yin-yang collar they each had didn't struck me as a mere symbol of sisterhood.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Fun fact: Admiral Tumblr is apparently a dyke according to the novels. Regardless of PoC shit (funny how First Order is filled with both whites as well as clearly scene background officers being Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and Far Eastern Asians), the only issue I have is the film has a strong slant toward "strong women" picking up after men.



People think stuff like that is simple SJW pandering and I did at one time too, but over time I began to realize it's just a cynical ploy to put a shield on properties when it came to criticism, and manipulate audiences emotionally. Hollywood doesn't give a shit about SJWs, it still has a huge issue with women as is undeniable at this point...but, they will go with what makes money or at least doesn't compromise it. That's why no one should feasibly expect a Finn/Rey thing for example. Certain audiences don't like that...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> People think stuff like that is simple SJW pandering and I did at one time too, but over time I began to realize it's just a cynical ploy to put a shield on properties when it came to criticism, and manipulate audiences emotionally. Hollywood doesn't give a shit about SJWs, it still has a huge issue with women as is undeniable at this point...but, they will go with what makes money or at least doesn't compromise it. That's why no one should feasibly expect a Finn/Rey thing for example. Certain audiences don't like that...



I don't believe in the concept of "SJW" pandering but I do believe it is fully invested in Hollywood, especially their television and film industries, to pander shallow obnoxiously simple ideas and themes to get the money of brainless millennials who eat this crap up.  Besides that tangent, like I said in my last post, its a noticeable theme in the movie that the woman are all very prominently the strong "emotionally tough" have their shit together unlike the reckless Poe, broken Luke, incompetent Finn, etc...Other than the stupid purple hair, I find her character dumb because she's a military commander waltzing around in an evening dress instead of being in uniform or some kind of patchwork uniform that every other member of the Resistance besides Leia is in.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mabel Gleeful (Dec 18, 2017)

The Wiki  has started:
"Incidentally, it should be noted that the Audience Score for the film displays an approval rating of 56% on the same aggregator, the lowest out of any Star Wars film, and the largest divisive gap between critics and audience[104]. At the same time however, a number of media companies pointed out that the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score voting system could be easily manipulated.[105][106][107][108]"


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The Wiki  has started:
> "Incidentally, it should be noted that the Audience Score for the film displays an approval rating of 56% on the same aggregator, the lowest out of any Star Wars film, and the largest divisive gap between critics and audience[104]. At the same time however, a number of media companies pointed out that the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score voting system could be easily manipulated.[105][106][107][108]"


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> The Wiki  has started:
> "Incidentally, it should be noted that the Audience Score for the film displays an approval rating of 56% on the same aggregator, the lowest out of any Star Wars film, and the largest divisive gap between critics and audience[104]. At the same time however, a number of media companies pointed out that the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score voting system could be easily manipulated.[105][106][107][108]"



I like how they ignore the fact that its not like big corporations in media (films, shows, books, games) don't ever "tamper" with reviewers or critics to get favorable scores.


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

Attack of Clones made 649 million USD at the box office.

I wonder what this will do.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Attack of Clones made 649 million USD at the box office.
> 
> I wonder what this will do.


probably more than that


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## Lucaniel (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I'm more disappointed in Geneal Hux.  Who was made to be a joke from beginning to end-- than I am Finn.


what else did you expect him to be


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> probably more than that



So you think it will crank a billion?


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

>Vanity Fair blanket labeling anyone who dislikes TLJ with "Trump" supporters or "reactionaries" in their latest article on TLJ's polarizing reception

Holy shit

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> >Vanity Fair blanket labeling anyone who dislikes TLJ with "Trump" supporters or "reactionaries"
> 
> Holy shit



Call Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines, only they can save us from this Heresy.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> what else did you expect him to be


A competitant and dangerous strategist that doesn't fall the "bad reception on a phone call" trick. Someone meant to be respected and feared.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

>expecting anything out of General Ron Wesley the slapstick
lol


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> I like how they ignore the fact that its not like big corporations in media (films, shows, books, games) don't ever "tamper" with reviewers or critics to get favorable scores.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Literally unproven false-flagging considering the guy on facebook was found making shit up

Gonna need to see concrete proof that out of 108,000+ reviews from people how many are sock-puppeted, posting a random video does nothing other than regurgitate said claim

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The World (Dec 18, 2017)

"fake news" These Disney shills will do anything to keep this turd afloat
even change the narrative paradigm

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

why would they even need dupes tho 

Im sure there are 108,000+ unique sad SW nerds out there who feel scorned by TLJ


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 18, 2017)

cinemascore casuals gave it an *A* tho


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

>thinks Cinemascore is any less prone to influence from money than Rotten Tomatoes, other critics, or even MovieWeb themselves or other cunts like RLM

C U T E
U
T
E


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## Aduro (Dec 18, 2017)

Weiss said:


> RT audience rating is about as relevant as IMDB rating tho
> 
> aka not at all


I think part of it is that when 94% of the audience rate something 3/5, its given 94% and people disagree with the rating because they don't understand how averages work. I work in a cinema and people generally seem to enjoy it, especially the Poe and Luke scenes. Still, audience consensus doesn't mean much to how I feel about a movie anyway. I don't think there's really anything that'll tell me if I'll enjoy a film online except a list of people who made it and the other stuff they made.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

Yeah The Mouse will offer you the carrot or the stick....you speak against their product and you wont get an Avengers: Infinity War Invite at best and a total blacklist at worst.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang, stop whining because it wasn't an exact copy of Legends Star Wars.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Last post I'll make about this claim of people conspiring to intentionally fabricate low votes out of spite on RT against TLJ:

the facebook user in question made a very fucking blatant open view group to attack TLJ on RT only YESTERDAY, why would he not have it privately locked and invited to view or see to members he would pick? This smells of bullshit. Especially since a large scale of negative reviews have been coming in for days before this public thing was made.



Catalyst75 said:


> Fang, stop whiny because it wasn't an exact copy of Legends Star Wars.



"Stop whiny"

ESL much?

Also don't care two shits about Legends/EU with this movie being bad. Dumb well poisoning there, kiddo.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> "Stop whiny"
> 
> ESL much?
> 
> Also don't care two shits about Legends/EU with this movie being bad. Dumb well poisoning there, kiddo.



Please, you've hated the sequels on principle, just because it made Legends non-canon.  You don't hate it because of any valid criticism; you only hate it _because it's not what you imagine Star Wars to be.
_
You're just a petulant man who only cares about being *serviced.*

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Vault (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Please, you've hated the sequels on principle, just because it made Legends non-canon.  You don't hate it because of any valid criticism; you only hate it _because it's not what you imagine Star Wars to be.
> _
> You're just a petulant man who only cares about being *serviced.*


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 18, 2017)

I will be honest. I would have preferred the new movies adopt more from the Expanded Universe myself.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Please, you've hated the sequels on principle, just because it made Legends non-canon.  You don't hate it because of any valid criticism; you only hate it _because it's not what you imagine Star Wars to be.
> _
> You're just a petulant man who only cares about being *serviced.*



Go ahead and reference a post in this thread about me giving a direct negative review in connection with EU/old canon on why I scored it low. Go ahead, make my day.  Otherwise shut up, kiddo.

Tantamount to what you doing is a really stupidly awful attempt at well poisoning here. Because not a single criticism I've given on this film has had anything to do with the old Star Wars EU at all. You are just being an idiot.  You have no valid refutation to anything I said, so you jumped the gun and went in like a moron making this claim.

>also not wanting to be "serviced"
Nu male please. You are just giving a knee jerk reaction to your stupid video being called out as stupid.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't care. At the end of the day I just want a good product.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I don't care. At the end of the day I just want a good product.



Out of curiosity what is your personal take on Last Jedi?


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> Go ahead and reference a post in this thread about me giving a direct negative review in connection with EU/old canon on why I scored it low. Go ahead, make my day. Otherwise shut up, kiddo.
> 
> Tantamount to what you doing is a really stupidly awful attempt at well poisoning here. Because not a single criticism I've given on this film has had anything to do with the old Star Wars EU at all. You are just being an idiot. You have no valid refutation to anything I said, so you jumped the gun and went in like a moron making this claim.



_Fun fact: Admiral Tumblr is apparently a *dyke* according to the novels

...the only issue I have is the film has a strong slant toward "*strong women" picking up after men*._

Would you prefer I call you an insecure fanboy who hates the fact that female and LGBT characters were given a substantial role in the new film, or point out the fact that your own knee-jerk reaction to any positive review of Star Wars is that "Disney paid the reviewer off", the kind of grand conspiracy _not worth the money or effort?
_
Or how about the complaining I heard about Spacebattles "down-playing Star Wars" because of the movie, _as if how strong the verse is depicted somehow determines how good the movies are?
_
I don't need to "poison the well" if you are already trying to poison it, only caring about anything that conforms to your views while dismissing everything else as lies or fake.  You can't even be bothered to provide evidence that your claims that "people being paid off" is true.  Disney is not so insecure about itself (though you definitely are, whenever you are challenged on anything Star Wars-related).


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 18, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Out of curiosity what is your personal take on Last Jedi?


it's shockingly bad...and only gets worse under scrutiny.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

lmao, the point @Fang was trying to make was that these "strong women" were made so basically at the expense of the male characters who in his words were all in some way reckless, broken or incompetent.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> lmao, the point @Fang was trying to make was that these "strong women" were made so basically at the expense of the male characters who in his words were all in some way reckless, broken or incompetent.



Dont see how that is arguable. Only Kylo was semi competent.


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> _Fun fact: Admiral Tumblr is apparently a *dyke* according to the novels
> 
> ...the only issue I have is the film has a strong slant toward "*strong women" picking up after men*._
> 
> ...



>literally nothing about EU in my post
>literally cherry picking nonsensical motivations you make up to fulfill an even worse narrative in your head to try and make some kind of weird circular logic for me not liking the film
>now moving the goal posts for being called out on this

Thanks for proving my point that nothing I said against this film had anything to do with the old canon stuff at all.

Also

>non-binary characters
Fuck off tumblr, your made up genders aren't real. I am not even surprised if you use "zhe" and "zher" unironically here.

>provide evidence

Do you have an extra chromosome? The video you posted shows a suspiciously made facebook group that was intentionally left public and open to false-flag on the negative reviews on TLJ. When I brought that up, you ignored it. How fucking convenient is it that you hand wave the negative response and reactions from people on TLJ on RT but suddenly a very suspect public facegroup pops up just the other day while people are already fucking commenting on TLJ's mixed reception.

WHAT A TWISSSSSSSSSSSSST!

You are not smart.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Out of curiosity what is your personal take on Last Jedi?


I felt it could've been better.  I feel that a lot  of the ideas were well conceived but lazily executed. For example-- I wish a movie that focused so much on space warfare didn't just involve the basic tactics of a Battlefield board game. Would've been cool to see some intermediate tricks that kept both sides on their toes.

The character developments were hit or miss (The best one being Kylo Ren.). The story could've been condensed and less bloated.

It was overall slightly below average in my opinion.


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I felt it could've been better.  I feel that a lot  of the ideas were well conceived but lazily executed. For example-- I wish a movie that focused so much on space warfare didn't just involve the basic tactics of a Battlefield board game. Would've been cool to see some intermediate tricks that kept both sides on their toes.
> 
> The character developments were hit or miss (The best one being Kylo Ren.). The story could've been condensed and less bloated.
> 
> It was overall slightly below average in my opinion.



ah thankyou


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 18, 2017)

10% meat 90% gristle 

also, the gristle is poisoned.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

> Did you ever hear the tragedy of Supreme Leader Snoke? I thought not. It’s not a story Disney would tell you. It’s a fan legend. Snoke was a Supreme Leader of the First Order, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the script to create plotholes… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the characters he cared about from doing something interesting. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his slippers. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.


10/10

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

is it just me or did everything just turn bolded?


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> lmao, the point @Fang was trying to make was that these "strong women" were made so basically at the expense of the male characters who in his words were all in some way reckless, broken or incompetent.



Let me think:

You have a Commander whose desperation to score a victory by destroying a single ship at the cost of much of his very limited military's resources gets a demotion to Captain.  Then, when most of the military brass are killed on the bridge of their command-ship, and command then falls to the _next person in line.  _The demoted Captain doesn't trust the new Admiral because they do not know what the plan is, so they send off two people on a rogue mission so he could implement a plan dependent on that mission succeeding, _and stages a mutiny to take over.
_
However, the mutiny is stopped, and the original gambit the Admiral had set up goes through - keep out of range of the enemy long enough to be within range of an old base, and have everyone evacuate the ship on ships with cloaking devices installed, hoping the enemy will not pick up on the cloaked transports, and continue pursuing the ship.

However, the Captain then tells the plan to his two comrades on the enemy ship, _within earshot of someone else_, and then they are captured, the hacker betrays all the information they learned, and the enemy catches onto the Admiral's plan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could make the characters both male, both female, have the Admiral be male and the Captain female, and you'd still get the same result, story-wise.  The complaints are just people getting too hung up on gender, rather than considering the possibility that Poe had a fatal flaw he needed to develop out of.



Fang said:


> Also
> 
> >non-binary characters
> Fuck off tumblr, your made up genders aren't real.



I should have said LGBT character instead (I made a mistake in terminology used), though I am curious as to what you mean by "made up genders".



Fang said:


> Thanks for proving my point that nothing I said against this film had anything to do with the old canon stuff at all.



You hated the fact that the Disney canon rendered Legends null and void.  I don't find it much of a stretch to believe that is a foundation for your intense dislike of anything part of the Disney canon.



Fang said:


> he video you posted shows a suspiciously made facebook group that was intentionally left public and open to false-flag on the negative reviews on TLJ. When I brought that up, you ignored it.



You mean aside from how Rotten Tomatoes is also public, and that _anyone _can just go there and write whatever reviews they like about it?  Yet you've all but claimed the "Audience" score there is authentic while bashing any positive reviews of the movie as being "another reviewer paid off by Disney".

I'm not the one pedalling a conspiracy theory.



> You are not smart.



I'm rather confident I'm smarter than someone like you.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

Rian Johnson's answer to all the negative criticisms he's been getting?

"Can't please everyone"


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> LI should have said LGBT character instead (I made a mistake in terminology used), though I am curious as to what you mean by "made up genders".



No one cares, you were caught red-handed already.



> You hated the fact that the Disney canon rendered Legends null and void.  I don't find it much of a stretch to believe that is a foundation for your intense dislike of anything part of the Disney canon.



>supposition layered upon lack of evidence for more bullshit to try and spin-doctor my dislike of the latest movie with more well poisoning
>no actual evidence of anything involving EU ever going in with my reaction to seeing TLJ

Neat.



> You mean aside from how Rotten Tomatoes is also public, and that _anyone _can just go there and write whatever reviews they like about it?  Yet you've all but claimed the "Audience" score there is authentic while bashing any positive reviews of the movie as being "another reviewer paid off by Disney".



Let's recap since you aren't very intelligent or aware for that matter on what the goal posts are here:

- you post a video with literally NO fucking tangible evidence of anything
- I point out that its suspicious how this suddenly public facebook group which could common sense wise make sense to keep their intention to manipulate the votes and reviews on RT private and invite-only against TLJ magically pops up less than a day after coverage on TLJ's mixed score on RT is being suddenly pointed out by various groups and peoples over the net
- this somehow goes over your head
- or how negative reviews on TLJ have been flying in for almost a week before that group suddenly materialized into existence in the first place



> I'm not the one pedalling a conspiracy theory.



Right just like when DIsney blacklisted the editoral and writing staff from the La Times when they called out Disney with several negative reviews of so of their business deals and plans for over a year and several writers had their IPS services banned from accessing Disney's sites and assets online. That never happened. Corporations, publishers, filmmakers, they NEVER would attempt to influence critics at all.

Not once.
Never happened.

But anyone with negative reviews on something you like? That always happens. Not.



> I'm rather confident I'm smarter than someone like you.



You aren't, brainlet.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Rian Johnson's answer to all the negative criticisms he's been getting?
> 
> "Can't please everyone"


why should he care? he'll just laugh all the way to the bank like the rest of the disney execs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## The World (Dec 18, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I will be honest. I would have preferred the new movies adopt more from the Expanded Universe myself.


They already copypasta'd the EU except they made it 100 times more boring and nonsensical.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> 10/10





Luke, did I ever tell you about light speed missiles? It's a combat maneuver that no one in the history of the Republic ever used in spite of having access to FTL technology for thousands of years. It is an attack so devastating that whichever side uses it first wins. End of story. There are no safeguards against it, so now that it has been discovered, it is wisest to resort to it at the slightest hint of danger, because if you hesitate, your side has already lost. It took a smart and brave lady general to discover the technique. Had she been just a bit less brave and a bit smarter the concept of "remote control" might have occurred to her as well and she could have been a good friend.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Atlas (Dec 18, 2017)

@Fang Opinion on Rebels? I feel like that and Rogue One are the only good SW content Disney has put out. Sucks we won't be getting any good games, though.


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## JFF (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> _Fun fact: Admiral Tumblr is apparently a *dyke* according to the novels
> 
> ...the only issue I have is the film has a strong slant toward "*strong women" picking up after men*._
> 
> Would you prefer I call you an insecure fanboy who hates the fact that female and LGBT characters were given a substantial role in the new film, or point out the fact that your own knee-jerk reaction to any positive review of Star Wars is that "Disney paid the reviewer off", the kind of grand conspiracy _not worth the money or effort?_



I mentioned this kinda too -- not sure if I am the insecure fanboy -- but I noticed as the fact, that the male characters come off very different, while all female characters seem to be iron blooded heroes. It is not an issue in regards of the movie. I just think its a kinda obvious theme.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The World (Dec 18, 2017)

Atlas said:


> @Fang Opinion on Rebels? I feel like that and Rogue One are the only good SW content Disney has put out. Sucks we won't be getting any good games, though.


>mentioning Rebels and not Clone Wars

begone scum


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 18, 2017)

Fang said:


> - I point out that its suspicious how this suddenly public facebook group which could common sense wise make sense to keep their intention to manipulate the votes and reviews on RT against TLJ magically pops up less than a day after coverage on TLJ's mixed score on RT is being suddenly pointed out by various groups and peoples over the net



I'm looking through those reviews, and I see a bunch of 1/2 and one-star reviews, many of them just being one-liners with no substance. 

So yes, I'd probably trust professional reviews over a bunch of fanboys who are sore about not having their personal theories fulfilled.



Mbxx said:


> I mentioned this kinda too -- not sure if I am the insecure fanboy -- but I noticed as the fact, that the male characters come off very different, while all female characters seem to be iron blooded heroes. It is not an issue in regards of the movie. I just think its an kinda obvious theme.



Both Holdo and Leia were veterans of the Galactic Civil War.  I can describe Rose as an idealist paired with a cynic, and I'd hardly call Rey that iron-blooded, with how she got hood-winked and deceived.


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## Atlas (Dec 18, 2017)

The World said:


> >mentioning Rebels and not Clone Wars
> 
> begone scum



Clone Wars is Disney?


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## The World (Dec 18, 2017)

...............yes


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## Indra (Dec 18, 2017)

How to summarize this movie in a nutshell


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I'm looking through those reviews, and I see a bunch of 1/2 and one-star reviews, many of them just being one-liners with no substance.
> 
> So yes, I'd probably trust professional reviews over a bunch of fanboys who are sore about not having their personal theories fulfilled.



Yeah you let me know when you go through all 108,000 of them, Sherlock.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Atlas said:


> @Fang Opinion on Rebels? I feel like that and Rogue One are the only good SW content Disney has put out. Sucks we won't be getting any good games, though.



Its better than TFA and TLJ, certainly that is one thing Rouge One has going for it. Rebels is okay but its still nowhere as good as TCW which found its feet mid-way into season 2 and kept getting progressively better until Disney canned it. Fun fact: TCW was killed because despite its high ratings, merchandise, and following, simply due to being on CN which belongs to Time Warner.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 18, 2017)

Sometimes I get kind of worried about the...I dunno, mental state of society? Whenever I hear a complaint about the filmmakers pushing a feminist agenda in the context of "The Last Jedi" or most movies, I immediately assume they just want women to go back to being eye candy or prizes for the (probably white) men. Seriously, the shit some of you guys are saying is f@cking absurd. 


~Gesy~ said:


> Rian Johnson's answer to all the negative criticisms he's been getting?
> 
> "Can't please everyone"



Well, considering all the death threats he's been getting, how else should he respond? 

In a way, I think "Star Wars" should just die. When the movies are going to be too much like the original, people will complain that it's too similar. When the movies try anything new, people will complain that it's too different. I love "Star Wars", but the backlash leads me to wonder if the franchise is trapped in a bubble, where there isn't any room for growth. Then again, "Empire Strikes Back" had its own backlash when fist released and now is regarded as the best Star Wars movie, so maybe "Star Wars" movies need to age before anyone can view them objectively (Just as "Empire" had a mixed reception when first released, the prequels got good reviews when they made their debuts and now everyone hates them).


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Well, considering all the death threats he's been getting, how else should he respond?
> 
> In a way, I think "Star Wars" should just die. *When the movies are going to be too much like the original, people will complain that it's too similar. When the movies try anything new, people will complain that it's too different.* I love "Star Wars", but the backlash leads me to wonder if the franchise is trapped in a bubble, where there isn't any room for growth. Then again, "Empire Strikes Back" had its own backlash when fist released and now is regarded as the best Star Wars movie, so maybe "Star Wars" movies need to age before anyone can view them objectively (Just as "Empire" had a mixed reception when first released, the prequels got good reviews when they made their debuts and now everyone hates them).


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this argument. People don't mind new ideas but they have to be executed right. You can't have a villain be mysterious and powerful but then have them amount to nothing. That's not trying anything new that's just being lazy. It becomes more subjective but there's plenty of times where new ideas have worked.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> In a way, I think "Star Wars" should just die.


Too bad movies that make over a billion dollars a pop don't die.


MartialHorror said:


> When the movies are going to be too much like the original, people will complain that it's too similar. When the movies try anything new, people will complain that it's too different. I love "Star Wars", but the backlash leads me to wonder if the franchise is trapped in a bubble, where there isn't any room for growth. Then again, "Empire Strikes Back" had its own backlash when fist released and now is regarded as the best Star Wars movie, so maybe "Star Wars" movies need to age before anyone can view them objectively (Just as "Empire" had a mixed reception when first released, the prequels got good reviews when they made their debuts and now everyone hates them).


If memory serves..Abrams was critiqued for being too safe..but rarely was his efforts considered poor. He didn't face nearly the the level of backlash Johnson is now. I  don't believe it's impossible to make  creative Star Wars film that most can enjoy. I find that notion absurd.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm seeing a lot of outlets attacking fans as being Trump supporters, women haters and babies living in their mother's basements. Seems like the trendy thing to completely shit on classics these days and call it high art, bold, fresh and only understood by the "intelligent and evolved people."

Was it too much to ask for some consistency and for the lore to be treated with respect ?

Snoke went out like a bitch, Luke went out without doing anything badass, why is Leia still around ?, Rey is Erza, Kylo is some roided up retard, love triangles now?, what was the point of any of this shit ? To have infinite movies ?

Mark my words, there will be a LOTR reboot with the same BS attitude this same kind of BS. Get ready for Gandalfa and Saurina.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 18, 2017)

Vermilion Kn said:


> I'm seeing a lot of outlets attacking fans as being Trump supporters, women haters and babies living in their mother's basements. Seems like the trendy thing to completely shit on classics these days and call it high art, bold, fresh and only understood by the "intelligent and evolved people."
> 
> Was it too much to ask for some consistency and for the lore to be treated with respect ?
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



What people wanted to see was a Jedi restoration, it seems. That opportunity is wasted. Even Hamill was against what happened in the movie, and I don't blame him. You don't have to make him central to the story at all, he is old after all. An essential mentor and supporting character and leader of the new Jedi, doesn't mean he has to take center stage. I would have been all for Finn, Rey, or even other prospectives as gearing up to be the new Jedi. Could've done more with Snoke. All that potential is gone now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 18, 2017)

ugh i hate it when people spout off dismissive lazy bullshit arguments like "you just can't appreciate something new!!"

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 18, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this argument. People don't mind new ideas but they have to be executed right. You can't have a villain be mysterious and powerful but then have them amount to nothing. That's not trying anything new that's just being lazy. It becomes more subjective but there's plenty of times where new ideas have worked.



I'm not saying you specifically are hating on the movie for that reason, but I'd still say the majority of the complainers are. That's not being lazy, it's a red herring. Snoke was just a red herring. That was his function in the story and it is a narrative device. You might not have liked it and I myself was a little disappointed because Snoke was turning out to be a lot more interesting than he was in TFA, but it served the story and lead to the progression of the character arcs. Kylo Ren now has a motivation that isn't just to be a new Darth Vader. His death lead to the change in Rei and Kylo's relationship. His death lead to the survival of the rebellion, as he probably wouldn't have fallen for Luke's ploy.

There is some laziness in the writing, but certainly not that. Just because you didn't like where the story went, doesn't automatically make it bad.

Edit: And did Somebody seriously whine about there being a love triangle...in a Star Wars movie?! Have we already forgotten that Luke, Leia and Han were in a love triangle? Although I guess we do want to admit that Luke was totally trying to bone his sister...Once again, I'm not saying there aren't flaws here, as there is a lack of romantic chemistry between Finn and Rose, but complain about that...not the fact that there is a love triangle.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Dec 18, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> What people wanted to see was a Jedi restoration, it seems. That opportunity is wasted. Even Hamill was against what happened in the movie, and I don't blame him. You don't have to make him central to the story at all, he is old after all. An essential mentor and supporting character and leader of the new Jedi, doesn't mean he has to take center stage. I would have been all for Finn, Rey, or even other prospectives as gearing up to be the new Jedi. Could've done more with Snoke. All that potential is gone now.



I was ready to accept the passing of the torch, but not like this. No respect at all, characters just being thrown away like they were nothing after the hype from TFA.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 18, 2017)

Poor Mark

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 3


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 18, 2017)

I am not bothered by Rey's parents being no one important; I am bothered that that was not stated immediately, as that was a gross violation of the "law of conservation of detail;" if they were not important, that should have been stated right away and not allowed any mystery to be developed. If there is great mystery surrounding a character, they need to be important.

Also, Luke dying without any children, and the Skywalker bloodline ending, is not good; I understand that there is more to the _Star Wars_ universe than the Skywalker family, but they have been the main characters for every film except _Rogue One,_ so a _Star Wars_ movie without them is the equivalent of a story about Tony Stark without his armor or Bruce Banner without the Hulk; they could theoretically work, but would lack their most interesting aspects. Stories without the Skywalker family can be explored in films outside of the main story, such as _Rogue One_ or the upcoming Han Solo film, or television series, but the main films should always have at least one Skywalker in them, in my mind.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Atlas (Dec 18, 2017)

I'm liking this Jesus upgrade.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Edit: And did Somebody seriously whine about there being a love triangle...in a Star Wars movie?! Have we already forgotten that Luke, Leia and Han were in a love triangle? Although I guess we do want to admit that Luke was totally trying to bone his sister...Once again, I'm not saying there aren't flaws here, as there is a lack of romantic chemistry between Finn and Rose, but complain about that...not the fact that there is a love triangle.



Come on, the Luke Leia thing was a flash in the pan and treated like a joke later on. Now we have Rose, Finn, Rey and Poe in some weird love sandwich. This is just bait for the shitards. Hell, it even caused plot asteroid craters. Why didn't the walkers nuke the shit out of Finn and Rose after that love BS near the mini death star cannon ? That whole section of the movie made 0 sense and it felt forced as fuck.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JFF (Dec 18, 2017)

Well folks; I always say, it can only get better. We should calm down, when I see the discussion  I think they made the mistake by arguing its better then Episode V or comparing the film to it. "Maybe" that was a little high aimed. In terms of visuals its great, for the the story -- lets say, its more generic and it cannot be perfect for everyone.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I'm not saying you specifically are hating on the movie for that reason, but I'd still say the majority of the complainers are. That's not being lazy, it's a red herring. Snoke was just a red herring. That was his function in the story and it is a narrative device. You might not have liked it and I myself was a little disappointed because Snoke was turning out to be a lot more interesting than he was in TFA, but it served the story and lead to the progression of the character arcs. Kylo Ren now has a motivation that isn't just to be a new Darth Vader. His death lead to the change in Rei and Kylo's relationship. His death lead to the survival of the rebellion, as he probably wouldn't have fallen for Luke's ploy.
> 
> There is some laziness in the writing, but certainly not that. Just because you didn't like where the story went, doesn't automatically make it bad.
> 
> Edit: And did Somebody seriously whine about there being a love triangle...in a Star Wars movie?! Have we already forgotten that Luke, Leia and Han were in a love triangle? Although I guess we do want to admit that Luke was totally trying to bone his sister...Once again, I'm not saying there aren't flaws here, as there is a lack of romantic chemistry between Finn and Rose, but complain about that...not the fact that there is a love triangle.


And I'm not saying that you're saying that I'm saying that the movie isn't good because it's too different. ()

TFA did NOT set Snoke up be any throwaway device. You can tell that TFA and TLJ were made by different people.

No one was complaining about it being too different specifically. They obviously wanted something new because TFA was criticized for being a soft reboot.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shark Skin (Dec 18, 2017)

I liked it, didn't love it. Got to agree with what a lot of what I'm seeing in this thread. I think the ideas presented in this film weren't bad and I'm glad that Rian tried to go in a different direction. But much like the prequals, I felt that there was wasted potential and some poor decisions that ultimately hurt this movie's place in the main SW line of films.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 18, 2017)

Imagine said:


> And I'm not saying that you're saying that I'm saying that the movie isn't good because it's too different. ()
> 
> TFA did NOT set Snoke up be any throwaway device. You can tell that TFA and TLJ were made by different people.
> 
> No one was complaining about it being too different specifically. They obviously wanted something new because TFA was criticized for being a soft reboot.



How do you know that Snoke wasn't set up to be a throwaway device? First off, there had to at least have been an outline for the trilogy before TFA entered production, as Disney is too organized to not have a plan. But even more importantly than that, what could Snoke do that wouldn't be a rip-off of Palpatine? What else could've been done with the character?

People have been complaining about his lack of backstory or defined motivations, but these same people seem to have forgotten that the Emperor was just as thinly written. If they had tried fleshing either out, it would've taken away from the true antagonist of the trilogies (Vader and Ren). But the Emperor and Snoke were simply stepping stones and were clearly designed to be stepping stones from the beginning, as there was no way Snoke was going to take the place of Kylo Ren as the primary antagonist.

And for the record, people are complaining that they did things too differently, even if they don't realize it. How many times has someone gotten angry over the new uses of the force? When people complain about Rey's parents being nobodies, it's because "The Empire Strikes Back" conditioned them to expect a major reveal, even though in hindsight, it had been foreshadowed in TFA. Someone who had recently posted said they were expecting the restoration of the Jedi and apparently having its characters decide to end the Sith and Jedi is 'disrespectful'. In most fans eyes, change= disrespectful. It's just a fact of fandom and I've probably done it myself as well. For all the shit I give the prequels, there is one complaint that proves I am just as guilty of this as everyone else. I didn't like the whole...I can never remember what it's called, but the explanation for the force in "The Phantom Menace"...Why didn't I like it? Because it was different in a way I disliked, in a movie I disliked. Most of "The Phantom Menace" is bad, but that in itself? Not really. If it was revealed in "Return of the Jedi", I probably would've rolled with it.

Personally, I wish "The Last Jedi" did even more differently. Do we need the four legged walkers again? After 20 years, you'd think the Empire would design some new ships.



Mbxx said:


> Well folks; I always say, it can only get better. We should calm down, when I see the discussion  I think they made the mistake by arguing its better then Episode V or comparing the film to it. "Maybe" that was a little high aimed. In terms of visuals its great, for the the story -- lets say, its more generic and it cannot be perfect for everyone.



lol, I was trying to avoid this thread because I knew I'd get heated. I try not to get in internet battles anymore, at least over movies. I can get pretty arrogant.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 18, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Personally, I wish "The Last Jedi" did even more differently. Do we need the four legged walkers again? After 20 years, you'd think the Empire would design some new ships.



Technological stasis is a running issue with Star Wars *shrugs*

Not that the four legged walkers weren't fucking stupid to begin with

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 18, 2017)

The more I think about it the more I feel I'm just real butthurt about Luke dying.

The hubris of fucking with Luke bothers me less, than not giving another director at least a last shot with him.


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## Indra (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't really hate the whole women are stronger agenda or the silly arguments in that area.

I just don't like the fact that what-ever limits characters had to excuse them being weak in the face of Rey, is crumbling. The movie even jokes about Kylo losing to a noob.

And it's kind of silly that years of training with the force + lots of potential = barely a month with the saber + lots of untapped power


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 18, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> The more I think about it the more I feel I'm just real butthurt about Luke dying.
> 
> The hubris of fucking with Luke bothers me less, than not giving another director at least a last shot with him.



I'm fine with him dying

His story ended

Him exiting the story was and should always be a thing

They just happened upon the laziest and most cynical sort of means of continuing the story by making sure we knew all their efforts were for little to no positive gain and their lives were rather middling once the curtain closed for the OT.

You know, just like real life, because we're watching/reading/playing fiction to get more of that

Then you have the cherry on top of taking a tired, even more cynical, bent of making the previous hero a self-pitying/loathing piece of shit in their old age because they broke from events far less significant (in terms of magnitude of scale for potential trauma) than what they've already demonstrated mentally tough enough to deal with

Cynicism is fucking easy and a low hanging fruit for telling a story, we have plenty examples to draw upon to flesh it out in real life.

Optimism is difficult to pull off believably thus we avoid it and don't bother trying because that would take actual thought to make us buy the end result was plausible

Also annoyed they wasted Leia, the fuck is her only display of Force power the "superman" meme shit. It feels a lot like Gohan wasting all that talent, if not for the same reasons. You have a new trilogy and can't make her a space wizard too?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Dec 18, 2017)

I am sad


*Spoiler*: __ 



 RIP Admiral Ackbar


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 18, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I am sad
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 



Thought that would have been obvious given his VA has been dead since last year


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## Rasendori (Dec 19, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> I'm fine with him dying
> 
> His story ended
> 
> ...



All of the reasons you stated above literally fuel my nerdrage bro. Doing Luke dirty like that was just....


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 19, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> All of the reasons you stated only fuel my nerdrage bro. Doing Luke dirty like that was just....



I'm apparently cynical enough to think like the writer, so I was already anticipating this with Luke as soon as we learned we needed a fucking treasure hunt to find his ass *shrugs*

So my reaction is more disappointed at this point than "nerdragey"


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## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> So you think it will crank a billion?


should do





~Gesy~ said:


> A competitant and dangerous strategist that doesn't fall the "bad reception on a phone call" trick. Someone meant to be respected and feared.


idk man even in TFA he seemed like a dumbass

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Imagine (Dec 19, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> How do you know that Snoke wasn't set up to be a throwaway device? First off, there had to at least have been an outline for the trilogy before TFA entered production, as Disney is too organized to not have a plan. But even more importantly than that, what could Snoke do that wouldn't be a rip-off of Palpatine? What else could've been done with the character?


Anything other than him sitting around force pushing some people. People were theory crafting like crazy over him. Almost anything you found on the internet was more interesting than that they did with him in the actual movie.



> People have been complaining about his lack of backstory or defined motivations, but these same people seem to have forgotten that the Emperor was just as thinly written. If they had tried fleshing either out, it would've taken away from the true antagonist of the trilogies (Vader and Ren). But the Emperor and Snoke were simply stepping stones and were clearly designed to be stepping stones from the beginning, as there was no way Snoke was going to take the place of Kylo Ren as the primary antagonist.


It's the execution. Sidious was politically sound and had presence. Snoke had presence in TFA but not here. He was downgraded to a bumbling B villain movie.

He shows off how nice he is with the force but can't sense when his underling is using the force? That's lazy writing. You want him to die? You want Kylo to takeover? Fine, but go through the effort, though.



> And for the record, people are complaining that they did things too differently, even if they don't realize it. How many times has someone gotten angry over the new uses of the force? When people complain about Rey's parents being nobodies, it's because "The Empire Strikes Back" conditioned them to expect a major reveal, even though in hindsight, it had been foreshadowed in TFA. Someone who had recently posted said they were expecting the restoration of the Jedi and apparently having its characters decide to end the Sith and Jedi is 'disrespectful'. In most fans eyes, change= disrespectful. It's just a fact of fandom and I've probably done it myself as well. For all the shit I give the prequels, there is one complaint that proves I am just as guilty of this as everyone else. I didn't like the whole...I can never remember what it's called, but the explanation for the force in "The Phantom Menace"...Why didn't I like it? Because it was different in a way I disliked, in a movie I disliked. Most of "The Phantom Menace" is bad, but that in itself? Not really. If it was revealed in "Return of the Jedi", I probably would've rolled with it.


People wanted something to be important about Rey because she's a damn Mary Sue otherwise. Every TFA fan was yelling for the hills ''WAIT FOR EP8 EVERYTHING WILL BE EXPLAINED!!!''. Well, we're here and nothing was explained. Rey comes from nothing, she got a few hours of sloppy training with Luke at best and yet somehow she's amazing at everything she does.

I assume you're talking about Midochlorians? That shits stupid, too.



> Personally, I wish "The Last Jedi" did even more differently. Do we need the four legged walkers again? After 20 years, you'd think the Empire would design some new ships.


Yeah, but who cares about Walkers? No one is going to see a SW movie because of the Walkers. This movie had a wealth of problems and none of it comes from it's technology.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 19, 2017)

Imagine said:


> He shows off how nice he is with the force but can't sense when his underling is using the force? That's lazy writing.



This is Star Wars

This is its bread and butter

When the super powers are inconvenient even at small scale, they forget they have them entirely for the sake of the plot moving forward

Star Wars writing is Sci-Fi fast food


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 19, 2017)

Imagine said:


> He shows off how nice he is with the force but can't sense when his underling is using the force?



Palpatine could hide his Force potential _from a room full of the greatest Jedi Masters of the Jedi Order._  It wouldn't be impossible for Ren to be strong enough to hide his use of the Force from Snoke, especially when he synchronized turning both lightsabers.

-------------------------------------------------

On the other hand:



Not even five days, and already you have someone crying out for this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 19, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Palpatine could hide his Force potential _from a room full of the greatest Jedi Masters of the Jedi Order._  It wouldn't be impossible for Ren to be strong enough to hide his use of the Force from Snoke, especially when he synchronized turning both lightsabers.



Not impossible, but was it really alluded to being a skill Ren possessed?

Not even talking film, the supplemental materials would be enough

There's a giant difference between Sidious and his prowess and current Ren to begin with too

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> On the other hand:
> 
> 
> 
> Not even five days, and already you have someone crying out for this.


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## Imagine (Dec 19, 2017)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> This is Star Wars
> 
> This is its bread and butter
> 
> ...


This one had too much of that food


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## Imagine (Dec 19, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Palpatine could hide his Force potential _from a room full of the greatest Jedi Masters of the Jedi Order._  It wouldn't be impossible for Ren to be strong enough to hide his use of the Force from Snoke, especially when he synchronized turning both lightsabers.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


That's Sidious, though...


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## Magic (Dec 19, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> I'm pretty sure they also wanted to make the East Asian women (Rose and Paige) into a lesbian couple but backtracked at the last second and made them sisters instead. That yin-yang collar they each had didn't struck me as a mere symbol of sisterhood.


Same. Immediately read it as something lovers would do. Too risky ? Last minute change probably.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 19, 2017)

> Star Wars Fans Petition to Have The Last Jedi Removed from Canon


pathetic curs

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MartialHorror (Dec 19, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Anything other than him sitting around force pushing some people. People were theory crafting like crazy over him. Almost anything you found on the internet was more interesting than that they did with him in the actual movie.
> 
> It's the execution. Sidious was politically sound and had presence. Snoke had presence in TFA but not here. He was downgraded to a bumbling B villain movie.
> 
> He shows off how nice he is with the force but can't sense when his underling is using the force? That's lazy writing. You want him to die? You want Kylo to takeover? Fine, but go through the effort, though.



Once again, that's not lazy writing, it's just you wanting something, which is making this debate progressively more difficult because you're falling back on simple opinions. How can anyone respond to 'Sidious had presence and Snoke had it too, but not here'? I personally thought Snoke was boring in TFA as everything about him felt like a Sidious stand-in, but he was more compelling in TLJ as they spent more time on fleshing out his personality.

As for him not sensing the force, this seems kind of like a reach, as has this ever come up on a previous movie? (serious question; I can't remember) and the whole point of that was Snoke was too arrogant to think Kylo Ren would betray him.



> People wanted something to be important about Rey because she's a damn Mary Sue otherwise. Every TFA fan was yelling for the hills ''WAIT FOR EP8 EVERYTHING WILL BE EXPLAINED!!!''. Well, we're here and nothing was explained. Rey comes from nothing, she got a few hours of sloppy training with Luke at best and yet somehow she's amazing at everything she does.



And being the daughter of someone important, whether it's Luke or Obi Wan, wouldn't have made her a Mary Sue? The 'Rey is amazing at everything she does' argument has always been nonsense to me because Luke was the same way up until "Empire". The whole point of these movies is that they're supposed to be escapist entertainment and Luke and Rey are avatars for the audience. The final bit with the kid using the force emphasized that anyone can be a 'chosen one' or however you want to word it.



> Yeah, but who cares about Walkers? No one is going to see a SW movie because of the Walkers. This movie had a wealth of problems and none of it comes from it's technology.



Except I obviously don't see the majority of these so called problems as problems, or if I do acknowledge them as flaws, they simply didn't bug me. I just tire of nostalgia


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 19, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> The whole point of these movies is that they're supposed to be escapist entertainment and Luke and Rey are avatars for the audience.



You're right

Hit the nail on the head

Baffles me that anyone would want an audience avatar that epitomizes human selfishness (not to feed into the delusion selfless exists though) at its worst with the whole self-pitying bent, but I've been hearing this shitlord thing is pretty popular online so the hell do I know?

In all seriousness though, you're free to enjoy what you want. Our taste ultimately determines whether we like content. I personally loathe the character archetype they're dragging Luke through every time I encounter it. I get that others like it, it wouldn't keep popping up if someone didn't enjoy it somehow, but I don't think I'll ever understand why.


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## Zef (Dec 19, 2017)

Has RJ spoken out about the backlash yet?

Probably won't since these dumb articles are spinning any criticism of TLJ as coming from the "alt-right".


It's funny because the only alt right thing I see is how RJ treated Finn's character. All the complaints people had about the character after TFA (complaints RJ said he understood iirc) were double downed on in this film. 

The black character is the running gag of this trilogy it seems, and no one at Disney seems to care.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 19, 2017)

Zef said:


> Has RJ spoken out about the backlash yet?
> 
> Probably won't since these dumb articles are spinning any criticism of TLJ as coming from the "alt-right".
> 
> ...



"Y-you can't please everyone" - Rian Johnson.


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## Aduro (Dec 19, 2017)

Zef said:


> It's funny because the only alt right thing I see is how RJ treated Finn's character. All the complaints people had about the character after TFA (complaints RJ said he understood iirc) were double downed on in this film.
> 
> The black character is the running gag of this trilogy it seems, and no one at Disney seems to care.


To be fair Fin is also the only one who had a consistent character arc over the two movies. The first film is about not wanting to be a slave or a murderer and finding his identity. The second film is the one where Fin learns what it means to be loyal to the rebellion and give yourself to what's right. It makes sense for this movie to be a chance for Fin to learn about all the thing the Empire would have hidden from him, like why the Empire is bad and the Rebellion is good. He's comic relief but he's also got an interesting character arc. From slave>opportunist>Opportunist with missing white girl syndrome for Rey > rebel.

The film still makes its female protagonists perfect to the extent that it detracts from their characters. They're mostly Mary Sue's that the male heroes should learn from. Luke ends up learning more from his interactions with Rey than the other way around. Poe learns from the purple Vice Admiral lady that he needs to grow up and choose survival and strategy over glory and destroying the enemy in front of him. Fin learns from Rose that the rebellion is about having a conscience as well as courage. None of the female characters really made any big mistakes or look stupid besides Rey.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 19, 2017)

This gave me the feels

Reactions: Like 5


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 19, 2017)

Obligatory vid for the worst apologists


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## Zef (Dec 19, 2017)

You can see Mark is breathing all quickly, and his eyes are teared up in that vid.

And the side eye he gave at the end.



How could they break this man like this?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

i think Mark Hamill wasn't aware of Luke's death at the end of the movie or how ridiculous his depiction actually was until he saw it.

Poor bastard. 

This is the stuff Joker's are made of...


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## ~VK~ (Dec 19, 2017)

All it takes is one bad movie to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where Mark is. Just one bad movie.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2017)

I mean..its not like he's famous for anything else.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

that face he makes at the end...like he wants to toss RJ down a reactor core

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gunners (Dec 19, 2017)

I didn't have a problem with Luke dying but his send off should have been stronger.

Using Avatar as an example on how one of the moments could have been handled. When Katara stepped to her grandpa, she got her ass taxed but the grandfather's realisation still kicked it.

Regardless of spunk and deterioration, there should be levels to that shit. Having Rey best him did none of them favours.

Him getting driven to the point of death because of an illusion was also weak. The stage was set for him to crush their force and then show that he wasn't there in body.

Finn and Daisy's story wasn't worth following. Same applies to Poe's. It felt lazy. If they spent more time refining it and less time on the jokes, it could have been much better. 

I think the biggest problem is the new characters lack charisma/presence. Kylo also needs someone to remix his beat.

That said, I enjoyed the film. A solid C+.


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## Fang (Dec 19, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> I mean..its not like he's famous for anything else.



He's pretty fucking famous for his involvement in the comic book and video game industries (you probably never experienced Wing Commander I bet), everyone almost universally knowing him as the "definitive" voice of the Joker and being a pretty successfully huge voice actor and writer. But sure if your metric is "did he do anything to the level of following up Luke Skywalker" then sure.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 19, 2017)

mark hamill is the one true joker

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2017)

Fang said:


> He's pretty fucking famous for his involvement in the comic book and video game industries (you probably never experienced Wing Commander I bet), everyone almost universally knowing him as the "definitive" voice of the Joker and being a pretty successfully huge voice actor and writer. But sure if your metric is "did he do anything to the level of following up Luke Skywalker" then sure.


Yeah, I'm aware of his voice acting career. But I'm not sure if that's public knowledge.


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## Fang (Dec 19, 2017)

I would say a lot of people probably are familiar with his works in the DC animated universe especially considering how big BTAS is even if we're decades past the early 90s.


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## James Bond (Dec 19, 2017)

Luke deserved better... that video is just


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

you know, if Rey had joined Kylo we'd have no need for a 9th movie.

problem solved, peace in the galaxy, war over, everybody go home.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

blakstealth said:


> Who is Finn supposed to hang out with then? Definitely not Rose, right?


as one of the 2 heads of the New Galactic Order i'm sure Rey can hook up Finn as a Janitorial _Supervisor_...

pretty kush gig for someone whose only skill involves making a damn fool of himself.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Pretty sure the galaxy won't just bow down to oppression.


actually, it was a point the movie made that the First Order would control the Galaxy within weeks...

another point they drove home was that no one came to help the resistance - because really, why bother?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 19, 2017)

Maybe the tie-in comics and books explain this, did the First Order immediately spring to life after the fall of the Emperor in ROTJ? Or was there a period of piece before they showed up? I was just wondering how that all played out, where an insanely powerful evil overlord is finally brought down...and then another one shows up out of nowhere.



ChaosTheory123 said:


> You're right
> 
> Hit the nail on the head
> 
> ...



Ack, to clarify, I meant Luke was an audience avatar in the original "Star Wars". He gradually grew out of it each sequel as he became a more defined character and obviously is not one by the time this new trilogy began. Rey also functioned as this role in "TFA", but not so much in "TLJ".


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## Lucaniel (Dec 19, 2017)

the gang weighs in 



*Spoiler*: __ 



they have mixed feelings about it and don't think it's terrible but also don't think it's good and they (predominantly rich) seem convinced now that it's not possible to do anything interesting with star wars

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 19, 2017)

for a second there i thought the Nerd Crew episode was their actual review...


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## Fang (Dec 19, 2017)

Every time Plinkett talks I want to projectile vomit

Reactions: Agree 3


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 19, 2017)

This film seemed to make it very clear that Kylo is now beyond redemption, but the fact that he could not bring himself to kill Leia still makes me wonder if he may have a chance, yet; what does everyone say about that?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 19, 2017)

He has a chance.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 19, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This film seemed to make it very clear that Kylo is now beyond redemption, but the fact that he could not bring himself to kill Leia still makes me wonder if he may have a chance, yet; what does everyone say about that?



If someone watched the Prequels without knowing what happened in the Original Trilogy, they probably would have thought Anakin far beyond redemption, after slaughtering the Jedi Order, and almost killing Padme because he thought she betrayed him.  

Kylo was able to bring himself to kill his mother and the trauma of killing his father (even Snoke pointed this out) hurt him emotionally and mentally.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Indra (Dec 20, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This film seemed to make it very clear that Kylo is now beyond redemption, but the fact that he could not bring himself to kill Leia still makes me wonder if he may have a chance, yet; what does everyone say about that?


He killed the big bad.

So they'll find a way, unless he decides to kill everyone. Still him killing Han, and killing multiple resistance fighters is warrant enough for me not to like him becoming a good guy.

If anything he deserves to sacrifice himself.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 20, 2017)

Indra said:


> He killed the big bad.
> 
> So they'll find a way, unless he decides to kill everyone. Still him killing Han, and killing multiple resistance fighters is warrant enough for me not to like him becoming a good guy.
> 
> If anything he deserves to sacrifice himself.



The problem is he is the big bad so...how can he sacrifice himself lol...Hux is even less prime time then Kylo and that is saying a lot.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Indra (Dec 20, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> The problem is he is the big bad so...how can he sacrifice himself lol...Hux is even less prime time then Kylo and that is saying a lot.


Good point.

I feel like Kylo isn't competent enough to be the big bad unless there's a huge time skip between the second and third film. Or if Snoke isn't really dead theory, which is 99% BS considering all of the wasted theories on him already.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Hux is literally a gag character at this point.


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)

Admiral Hux missed his turn at Bayformers Avenue and ended up on Star Wars Boulevard

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2017)

Evil suit...who pulled it off better?

Grand Moff Tarkin or Admiral Hux?


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 20, 2017)

Bayformers>>>DisneyWars


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## Aeternus (Dec 20, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This film seemed to make it very clear that Kylo is now beyond redemption, but the fact that he could not bring himself to kill Leia still makes me wonder if he may have a chance, yet; what does everyone say about that?


Most likely he will have a change of heart right before the end, sacrificing himself so that the other could live or something like this anyway.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 20, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Bayformers>>>DisneyWars



No cause all Transformers has to do is give me more Bots and less Humans but that fucker Bay does the opposite.


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## Aeternus (Dec 20, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> No cause all Transformers has to do is give me more Bots and less Humans but that fucker Bay does the opposite.


Way too much focus on the humans. I get it that they are used as a way for the audience to relate or something (never got that relating thing tbh but anyway) but the bots end up being almost secondary characters.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 20, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Way too much focus on the humans. I get it that they are used as a way for the audience to relate or something (never got that relating thing tbh but anyway) but the bots end up being almost secondary characters.



I suppose the real reason is budget but ugh the Humans are shit, its not the like the plots are good so just shorten the movies or give me some better humans or both.


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## Darth (Dec 20, 2017)

Didn't like it


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## Katou (Dec 20, 2017)

Bayformers ...


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## Aeternus (Dec 20, 2017)

Still haven't seen the latest one. Heard it didn't do as good as its predecessors.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 20, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 



Aside from a character standpoint, I am disappointed because it was a good opportunity to have Mark Hamill feature prominently on the big screen again, not only for this but a prospective third movie as well. It's a shame this won't be the case.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Mark can still be featured in the next film.


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## Rashman (Dec 20, 2017)

Fuck this movie... seriously

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 20, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Mark can still be featured in the next film.



In limited capacity.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2017)

Luke had a good sendoff

now its Reylo time all the time in episode IX

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

>

>Those terms include the fact that Disney will receive 65% of revenue from ticket sales, the highest percentage a Hollywood studio has ever demanded. They’re also forcing theaters to screen the film in their largest auditorium for at least four weeks. For previous Star Wars movies, the studio has required 64% of the revenue from ticket sales and four week commitments, but typical Disney movies only require a two week commitment.

>Disney does no bad


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2017)

good, then Mouse can buy even more companies to make even more good movies


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## Katou (Dec 20, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> it was a good opportunity to have Mark Hamill feature prominently on the big screen again


Probably the only reason I'll be watching this film


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## Aduro (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> >Those terms include the fact that Disney will receive 65% of revenue from ticket sales, the highest percentage a Hollywood studio has ever demanded. They’re also forcing theaters to screen the film in their largest auditorium for at least four weeks. For previous Star Wars movies, the studio has required 64% of the revenue from ticket sales and four week commitments, but typical Disney movies only require a two week commitment.


From someone who works in a cinema, its a dick move. First of all they take 65% _revenue_, not _profit_, and cinemas don't actually have good profit margins for tickets. Its just a more extreme version of standard practice. That's why cinemas have to make money from the overpriced popcorn and drinks. But more importantly in 2 weeks even Star Wars audiences will have died down, and cinemas are gonna need to make some room for the opening nights of Jumanji, The Greatest Showman and Pitch Perfect this week. Plus if cinemas have 4DX in their biggest screens that could be complicated for Jumanji showing.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 20, 2017)

THE REAL REASON WHY DISNEY KILLED OFF LUKE SKYWALKER IS BECAUSE HE'S THE JOKER


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Aduro said:


> From someone who works in a cinema, its a dick move. First of all they take 65% _revenue_, not _profit_, and cinemas don't actually have good profit margins for tickets. Its just a more extreme version of standard practice. That's why cinemas have to make money from the overpriced popcorn and drinks. But more importantly in 2 weeks even Star Wars audiences will have died down, and cinemas are gonna need to make some room for the opening nights of Jumanji, The Greatest Showman and Pitch Perfect this week. Plus if cinemas have 4DX in their biggest screens that could be complicated for Jumanji showing.





Disney is shooting themselves in the foot, that fucking drop.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 20, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Luke had a good sendoff
> 
> now its Reylo time all the time in episode IX



gross

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 20, 2017)

Again, in my opinion they should have killed off Leia, and that would have turned Luke to the Dark Side (remember how he snapped when Vader threatened his sister?), then Episode IX could have been about dealing with the last Jedi now being evil.

That would have written Fisher out of the story, and Hamill would have gotten to show off his Joker acting range.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 20, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> Again, in my opinion they should have killed off Leia, and that would have turned Luke to the Dark Side (remember how he snapped when Vader threatened his sister?), then Episode IX could have been about dealing with the last Jedi now being evil.
> 
> That would have written Fisher out of the story, and Hamill would have gotten to show off his Joker acting range.



Mark Hamill is the only one related to Damaged Comics that's why he's killed off. Leia has no business with DC.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> Disney is shooting themselves in the foot, that fucking drop.



Nah mang its cool

Only the most hardcore SW-fans are butthurt so it wont affect the income that much











JL-lvl drop here we come


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

New Hamill video

"Jedi don't give up"
"He's not my Luke Skywalker"

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Weiss said:


> Luke had a good sendoff
> 
> now its Reylo time all the time in episode IX


bruh enough is enough

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> bruh enough is enough


just preparing y'all for December 2019

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Jake CENA (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> New Hamill video
> 
> "Jedi don't give up"
> "He's not my Luke Skywalker"


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## Jake CENA (Dec 20, 2017)

Jake SKYWALKER

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Dec 20, 2017)

450 million USD, already beat warcraft.

550 million more to go to break a billion.

Can it do it?


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

obviously it will. something would have to go really wrong for it not to.


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## Darth (Dec 20, 2017)

The Last Jedi featuring Jake Skywalker

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

RT confirms all weighted score for The Last Jedi are authentic:



>Ms. Benson, who is the Vice President of Communications at Fandango, the parent company of Rotten Tomatoes, told me that Fandango and Rotten Tomatoes are fully confident in the ratings and scores for the Star Wars picture. She assured me that Rotten Tomatoes has gone to great lengths to verify their ratings' accuracy and authenticity.

>“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” she told me. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted. Aside from that, everything is normal and we don’t see any unusual activity. We looked at The Last Jedi compared to other blockbusters and it has been consistent with those past films.”

Disney shills blown out


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## Glued (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> RT confirms all weighted score for The Last Jedi are authentic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How much USD do you think the movie will break?


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

welp so much for that  

obviously _that many_ reviews couldn't have been fabricated so quickly lol


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

A lot fucking less than TFA.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> How much USD do you think the movie will break?


1,5B~


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## Glued (Dec 20, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> 1,5B~



I don't know man, Rogue One was able to crack a billion, I don't see this doing better than Rogue One.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 20, 2017)

> Hated more than BvS and JL

Savage 



~VK~ said:


> 1,5B~



Yep, will take a big hit cuz the audience is split


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I don't know man, Rogue One was able to crack a billion, I don't see this doing better than Rogue One.


lol rogue one was a spin off this is a main star wars episode. very different.

besides have you seen the opening weekend? it blows rogue one's out of the water. it's absolutely guaranteed to make more than rogue one it's ridiculously to say it won't.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 20, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> How much USD do you think the movie will break?


far more than it deserves; movie had one serviceable plot line.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

I don't think Rogue One did as bad as TLJ is doing currently with the Monday/Adult box office. But yes it also saw lower numbers due to the fact its a side-story that never got as advertised or marketed as much as VII or VIII did.

Star Wars fatigue is going to be an issue.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 20, 2017)

1.5+ B lets go !


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Based Jew

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 20, 2017)

It will definitely surpass a billion, I think it will make a bit less than a 1.5 billion though.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> I don't think Rogue One did as bad as TLJ is doing currently with the Monday/Adult box office. But yes it also saw lower numbers due to the fact its a side-story that never got as advertised or marketed as much as VII or VIII did.
> 
> Star Wars fatigue is going to be an issue.



Yeah, if they're smart, they'll take a 10+ year hiatus after Episode 9. I think the Han Solo movie comes out first, so that and "Rogue One" can be the spin-offs that come with each trilogy. 

Financially, it will probably do about as well as some of the others, maybe a little less (much like "Empire"). While divisive, the backlash isn't anywhere near the same levels as "Batman Vs Superman". I keep hearing about how "BvS" was divisive, but I have yet to meet any of its fans and even though I watch a lot of reviewers and read the critiques of a lot of critics, I only follow one who liked the movie...and I am much softer on it than most.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah, if they're smart, they'll take a 10+ year hiatus after Episode 9. I think the Han Solo movie comes out first, so that and "Rogue One" can be the spin-offs that come with each trilogy.



They aren't going to do that. They plan on keep pumping out side stories on Yoda, Fett, Solo, an unrelated trilogy by Rian (if he still has a job with how the revenue is going) as much as they can. There won't be two or three year long years of no Star Wars movies like there was with the Prequels.



> Financially, it will probably do about as well as some of the others, maybe a little less (much like "Empire"). While divisive, the backlash isn't anywhere near the same levels as "Batman Vs Superman". I keep hearing about how "BvS" was divisive, but I have yet to meet any of its fans and even though I watch a lot of reviewers and read the critiques of a lot of critics, I only follow one who liked the movie...and I am much softer on it than most.



Financially its failing compared to TFA in terms of Disney's expectations.

>dropped 6% yesterday ($20.3 million)
>Rogue One a year ago did straight $262 million cumulatively in its opening weekend; which lead into a total gross of $298 million in its first week in total and broke $300 million on the Friday of that week
>The Last Jedi will at best hit $400 million by Christmas time
>Globally its at over $500 million

Not good, the drop between TFA and TLJ is fucking huge and the gap with Rogue One isn't that great for its total either considering this is a numbered entry. But regardless still a massive success and box office hit.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 20, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I don't know man, Rogue One was able to crack a billion, I don't see this doing better than Rogue One.


is your brain broke 

rogue one was a spinoff

this is the main series, this is the real moneymaker

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Magic (Dec 20, 2017)

Diehard fan defends the new movie for an hour.



Ugh.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

"According to Serkiss, Snoke is disfigured not from the dark side but because he has osteoporosis." 

Rofl

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> "According to Serkiss, Snoke is disfigured not from the dark side but because he has osteoporosis."



wat

Is this for real?


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> wat
> 
> Is this for real?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Muk (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> RT confirms all weighted score for The Last Jedi are authentic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't say impossible. Tech for humanizing bots totally exist.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> They aren't going to do that. They plan on keep pumping out side stories on Yoda, Fett, Solo, an unrelated trilogy by Rian (if he still has a job with how the revenue is going) as much as they can. There won't be two or three year long years of no Star Wars movies like there was with the Prequels.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Sigh* I know. But a boy can dream that they will keep making Star Wars as a generational event. 

For what it's worth though, it's stupid to assume that this would've done as well as TFA, as TFA was the first Star Wars flick in years. It had a monster hype machine that no sequel was ever going to live up to and it suffered its own backlash. As for why "Rogue One" did better, despite having a lukewarm reception, it had the better marketing campaign and I think we were still on that Star Wars high. Now fatigue is beginning to set in...andstarwarsfanshavenoideawhattheywantlimitinganypotentialforgrowthwithinthisfranchisebutthatisonlymyopinion

The thing is, if "The Last Jedi" under-performs, Disney will see it as "Star Wars" fans wanting 'safe and formulaic' content and subsequent Star Wars flicks will just rehash the past. You can say "We're not against change, it's just that TLJ is bad" all you want, but Disney- and all movie studios- never equate box office failure with quality. They always blame the genre or the risk taking.

It's still possible "TLJ" will catch up though, if only because the competition for the rest of the year is kind of weak.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Muk said:


> Don't say impossible. Tech for humanizing bots totally exist.


maybe not impossible but totally improbable


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## Muk (Dec 20, 2017)

Not if you want to Target Disney


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

I feel like giving my review here. Woa, I can't describe the disappointment that only gets bigger and bigger as it sinks it how much of a mess it was.

I already had my problems with TFA with how much of a Mary Sue they made Rey out to be. This film makes TFA look like a masterpiece. Because with TFA it was only problems that I had, the film was enjoyable. As such I already read on the possibilities that TLJ had could give us and already prepared myself to face them.

I went to the cinema with the determination that I would enjoy the movie, no matter what. I had already prepared myself for Luke Skywalker being gay, feminist propaganda in the film, Rey being stronger than Palpatine/Darth Sidious and Snoke being "random new character." I would had disliked it if all this came to pass, possibly even raged, but I think I would still had enjoyed it and it would had kept me willing and ready for Ep IX.

So basically I went to the cinema making a conscious effort of amping up my SW fanboyism to its extreme in order to make me biased in favor of the movie to like it.

And even then, it managed to disappoint. Maybe not while I was watching the film, but certaintly after it sank in what I saw and read further on it.

Basically this was a film with the explicit purpose of pissing off fans and cut off ties with them. Star Wars simply do not want to be beholden anymore to the old fanbase and neither to the Skywalker legacy. So they tore up everything that made SW and burnt it, so they can do whatever the fuck they want no fucks given. They pretty much said it "let the past die" ie "let's kill all of 1-6 Star Wars films"

That's fine, but I just wonder, why couldn't they do this after giving closure to the 3 trilogies? I think that is all that the fans expected. They could had gone completely off the charts after this.

Killing Snoke is not necessarily bad, if it is to establish something more exciting, I could had bought a reborn Palpatine-Plagueis or even an evil Luke killing Snoke. The problem is they did it with the most retarded character and then handed Snoke's mantle to said retarded character.

Kylo Ren is a joke. Starting with the fact that he looks like Space Sasuke, he is weak and throws temper tantrum after temper tantrum.

We already saw him defeated in Episode 7, in Episode 8 he got his ass handed to him constantly, including by Snoke and even in Episode 8 it was made clear that he is still weaker than Rey. He is the underdog to Rey. His character doesn't help either, given how he constantly throws temper tantrums.

So basically Snoke got replaced by a way weaker villain, who is an angsty emo teen, that we already saw defeated multiple times.

This is the guy that leads the First Order? Because I mean, the purpose of the film in the end is suppossedly it to create a sense of dread for The Resistance. How? It didn't felt to me that way, in fact I had to read forums to even understand this was supposed to be the case. It felt like an absolute victory of The Resistance to me: Starkiller Base destroyed (the Death Star being blown up actually HELPED the Rebel Alliance and is what brought countless resourcess and support for the rebellion), Snoke's capital ship destroyed, the equivalent of Palpatine is dead and the First Order is now lead by a joke that I can't take seriously.

I won't even comment on Finn's journey with Rose (I honestly didn't disliked his character as much as others here, maybe not at all), the obvious "let's really drive home the point that Poe is wrong for daring to question and oppose the female leader" or Holdo being a space SJW complete with even the hairstyle. Everything I mentioned above was so terrible, that it completely overshadowed that. These are the things I wish I was complaining about.

Or how it makes no sense that the First Order took power so quickly. I mean, the Republic just gave up because the Starkiller Base made a shot? Umm, what? The galaxy was furious becuase the Death Star destroyed Aldeeran, and here the galaxy just surrendered after the SB destroys multiple planets and the Republic's capital? I guess it might make sense if they actually had kept the SB, but it was destroyed. My memory is sketchy and I might be wrong, but I kinda remember that even when the freaking Galactic Empire which Palpatine had carefully made the legitimate government in the eyes of most of the galaxy, completely crushed the CIS after Anakin deactivated the droid army, they still had to carry out some mop-up operations. Yet the Republic which most of the galaxy recognize as the legitimate government, just immediately goes away and surrenders to a faction that most of the galaxy despises? That makes no sense.

Have you seen Mark Hamill's eyes during the interviews? The man looks completely devastated. Just by seeing how much respect he has for Luke Skywalker's legacy, makes me wish he was the one that directed the new movies.

I am aware there is a possibility that Ep 8 was a distraction to make EP 9 epic, in which case I recant my post. But so far this is how it stands.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

Muk said:


> Not if you want to Target Disney


nope it's still a rather improbable narrative you're trying to push here.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

> Basically this was a film with the explicit purpose of pissing off fans and cut off ties with them. Star Wars simply do not want to be beholden anymore to the old fanbase and neither to the Skywalker legacy. So they tore up everything that made SW and burnt it, so they can do whatever the fuck they want no fucks given. They pretty much said it "let the past die" ie "let's kill all of 1-6 Star Wars films"



See this is another way of saying "I don't want this franchise to do anything new".

And how does this sentence "I would had disliked it if all this came to pass, possibly even raged, but I think I would still had enjoyed it" make any sense? How does one enjoy something they dislike? And how is Holdo an SJW?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> See this is another way of saying "I don't want this franchise to do anything new".



Amazing how I keep seeing the same argument from people who defend the movie "Its new!" "Its good because its new!" "You don't like it because you don't want new things! And new is good! New! New! New!"

New doesn't means better and there is a difference from making something new and making something new just for the sake of being new.

I already explained why I disliked it, I even told that killing Snoke would not necessarily have to suck, the way they did it, who did it and the consequences of that however, did made it suck and a lot.

Being new also doesn't just explain away the complete lack of logic in the Republic surrendering itself to the First Order. Neither does it make it okay how they treated Luke.



MartialHorror said:


> And how does this sentence "I would had disliked it if all this came to pass, possibly even raged, but I think I would still had enjoyed it" make any sense? How does one enjoy something they dislike? And how is Holdo an SJW?



Something can have multiple things that you dislike while you can still enjoy and like the ultimate product. Which is pretty much what happened with TFA for me.

I didn't said Holdo is a SJW, I said she has the whole SJW lookalike and it was reinforced with how a huge part of her character was schooling Poe for standing up to her and making him wrong and her right.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 20, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> I am aware there is a possibility that Ep 8 was a distraction to make EP 9 epic, in which case I recant my post. But so far this is how it stands.



Then just wait until Episode 9 comes out to give a final verdict.  I believe I said this before in regards to Episode 7, so I will say it again in regards to Episode 8.


Orochibuto said:


> I didn't said Holdo is a SJW, I said she has the whole SJW lookalike and it was reinforced with how a huge part of her character was schooling Poe for standing up to her and making him wrong and her right.



Consider it a rare case of the military trope where a soldier goes behind their superior's back to do something and, rather than resounding success from the maverick soldier's actions (as with many an action movie), the maverick's actions only end up making things _worse_, and threaten the otherwise sound plan of the superior officer.

Becuase often times, it is the other way around: the military officer in many movies is portrayed as incompetent, while the independent protagonist is always right.



Orochibuto said:


> Being new also doesn't just explain away the complete lack of logic in the Republic surrendering itself to the First Order. Neither does it make it okay how they treated Luke.



The Republic's entire government and main fleet were blown away, while the First Order still had the majority of its military structure intact, one it had built up over several decades.  The First Order performed what amounted to a cosmic blitzkrieg.

As for what happened with Luke, I can understand why fans would be upset with him, but I can also understand the kind of self-loathing Luke had over his own part in Ren's fall.  I'd probably feel the same way about myself if a moment of weakness caused me to draw a weapon against my own family.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Amazing how I keep seeing the same argument from people who defend the movie "Its new!" "Its good because its new!" "You don't like it because you don't want new things! And new is good! New! New! New!"
> 
> New doesn't means better and there is a difference from making something new and making something new just for the sake of being new.
> 
> I already explained why I disliked it, I even told that killing Snoke would not necessarily have to suck, the way they did it, who did it and the consequences of that however, did made it suck and a lot.



I did not say new=better and to your credit, most of your points don't seem based around the changes and believe it or not, most of the complaints of users here are based around the changes- even if they claim otherwise. Yet you say things like 'disrespect', implying you know how to read minds. There are times when directors have been disrespectful to the source and discarded it, such as with "Exorcist 2" or the first American "Godzilla", but those filmmakers admitted to hating the originals. Rian Johnson seems like a fan based on interviews and even then, what is the betrayal to Star Wars? It actually DID follow a lot of what we saw in the original trilogy, it just used our expectations against us. For example, the whole segment with Rey, Kylo and Snoke is actually very similar to the scene between Luke, Vader and the Emperor in "RotJ", except it happens in a much different place in the overarching story, does not lead to a face turn from Kylo and Snoke went out rather unceremoniously. Is that disrespectful? If this was disrespectful, "TLJ" wouldn't even resemble "Star Wars"

Are the prequels also disrespectful? They're less "Star Wars"-y than "TLJ". The only reason words like 'disrespectful' get thrown around like this is because you didn't like the direction Johnson took the story. He wanted to challenge the audience, not play it safe, which is exactly what the audience was demanding after "TFA". Now if you think the movie is bad, then just say it's bad. Don't call it a betrayal or disrespectful or whatever words the detractors love throwing out there, because it makes you all seem like you want the franchise to stick to the safe formula.





> Something can have multiple things that you dislike while you can still enjoy and like the ultimate product. Which is pretty much what happened with TFA for me.



you didn't say multiple things.



> I didn't said Holdo is a SJW, I said she has the whole SJW lookalike and it was reinforced with how a huge part of her character was schooling Poe for standing up to her and making him wrong and her right.



"or Holdo being a space SJW complete with even the hairstyle"

And what is an SJW lookalike anyway? You are referring to a 'Social Justice Warrior', right? How does a hair style fit into that? So a female can't teach or correct a male without there being a feminist agenda or them being an SJW? You seem to throw these kinds of words a lot too. It does not make the detractors seem anymore insightful or intelligent. You just kind of look sexist.

I'm probably coming off as a bit of an asshole here and I apologize if that is the case, but these kinds of posts only convince me that the haters are so angry that they're not thinking clearly. There are legitimate reasons to hate this movie, as there are legit reasons to hate the original trilogy. But if any of that is here, it's buried underneath 'smoke and mirrors' critiques that make the entire fanbase seem archaic.

Edit: As for how they treated Luke, what part do you think was worse? The fact that he became a recluse? Or that he tried to kill young Kylo? If it's the latter, then fans seem to forget that after all that talk of saving Vader, he was very ready to kill him until the Emperor started taunting him. I feel like Luke was always straddling the dark side, based on "Return of the Jedi" and "Empire". You can read into that differently, but this sudden darker interpretation did not come out of thin air.


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)




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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)

I guess it would have been embarrassing to have that revealed in the movies.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Why is a villain having osteoporosis such a big deal again? Snoke was clearly old and lots of old people have that...


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Because its retarded.

"Oh why is the big bad all twisted, malformed, and disfigured? Is it because of the corruption of the dark side?"
"Nah he just had bad genetics."

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Then just wait until Episode 9 comes out to give a final verdict.  I believe I said this before in regards to Episode 7, so I will say it again in regards to Episode 8.



This is what I did in regards to Ep 7 "maybe there will actually be a badass reason why Rey is so OP" 

See what happened.

You see, if they actually did this on purpose to do a grand redemption of Ep 8 in Ep 9, then feeling distraught by Ep 8 its actually part of the experience. I am not going to justify a film just because it MIGHT turn out good with Ep 9, I got Ep 8 and I am going to evaluate it according to what I saw.

If it ends up being different, then I can accept that and in fact I greatly hope this is the case.



Catalyst75 said:


> Consider it a rare case of the military trope where a soldier goes behind their superior's back to do something and, rather than resounding success from the maverick soldier's actions (as with many an action movie), the maverick's actions only end up making things _worse_, and threaten the otherwise sound plan of the superior officer.
> 
> Becuase often times, it is the other way around: the military officer in many movies is portrayed as incompetent, while the independent protagonist is always right.



All of which could had been avoided if Holdo actually explained her plan, which she kept to herself for no reason.

But again, all this stuff are relatively minor annoyances to me, this is what I wish I was complaining about. Rather than having to deal with the Luke fuckery, Snoke fuckery and not being capable of taking the First Order seriously anymore.



Catalyst75 said:


> The Republic's entire government and main fleet were blown away, while the First Order still had the majority of its military structure intact, one it had built up over several decades.  The First Order performed what amounted to a cosmic blitzkrieg.



That still doesn't make it remotely logical for the Republic to give up and the First Order actually being capable of taking over the entire galaxy in hours.

Even if the Republic lost its standing main fleet, there are still shipyards, secondary fleets, miltiary bases and a very pissed off general population that loathes the FO in countless worlds to deal with.

It would be kinda of a stretch even if the Starkiller Base had survived, but at least I could see it. But with their weapon of terror destroyed? Fuck no.



Catalyst75 said:


> As for what happened with Luke, I can understand why fans would be upset with him, but I can also understand the kind of self-loathing Luke had over his own part in Ren's fall.  I'd probably feel the same way about myself if a moment of weakness caused me to draw a weapon against my own family.



Yes, but again as Mark Hamill said, this is not Luke Skywalker, the Luke that we saw in the OT would never had thought on killing his family just because of what he MIGHT do. Yes, it is possible the thought might had crossed his mind, but he certaintly would not had got to the point where he actually ignited his lightsaber to do the strike.

Even if so, Luke would not had given up, no way.

All of this of course, without even addressing the worst part of the stinking toilet: Having to deal with Kylo Ren as the final villain of Star Wars.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> Because its retarded.
> 
> "Oh why is the big bad all twisted, malformed, and disfigured? Is it because of the corruption of the dark side?"
> "Nah he just had bad genetics."



Didn't people hate how the Emperor's appearance was revealed to be dark side corruption in the prequels, when everyone had previously assumed he was just old? You can even assume that the osteoporosis even came from the corruption of the dark side, if advanced aging is a side effect...

And everyone seems to ignore the part where he says "He's incredibly damaged". The Oosteoporosis is in how he's hunched. It's not the reason why his face is so screwed up. 

Another reason why I can't take the detractors seriously. You will find fault in the most ridiculous things. Who seriously gives a shit why Snoke is hunched over like many elderly villains in fiction?


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## Atlas (Dec 20, 2017)

Can we just refer to Nu-SW Luke as Jake instead?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Didn't people hate how the Emperor's appearance was revealed to be dark side corruption in the prequels



No. This is completely false.



> when everyone had previously assumed he was just old? You can even assume that the osteoporosis even came from the corruption of the dark side, if advanced aging is a side effect...



No. Even in the original novelization for Episode VI, the Emperor's appearance was stated due to the influence and corruption of the dark side. Nothing to do with him simply being "old". Scratch that, its even covered in the script for ROTJ.



> And everyone seems to ignore the part where he says "He's incredibly damaged". The Oosteoporosis is in how he's hunched. It's not the reason why his face is so screwed up.



He says that is one of the main reasons for why Snoke is so fucked up looking.



> Another reason why I can't take the detractors seriously. You will find fault in the most ridiculous things. Who seriously gives a shit why Snoke is hunched over like many elderly villains in fiction?



This is a silly way to dismiss the fact that it is a retarded fluff because they want to draw parallels between Palpatine and Snoke. Just like the nonsense of landing on a white planet which has "salt" but then copying the same arming up scene in the trenches almost completely that we saw in TESB with the Rebel troops prepping for the Imperial ground assault.

"Its totally different from the Battle of Hoth, Gen Z!"


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I did not say new=better and to your credit, most of your points don't seem based around the changes and believe it or not, most of the complaints of users here are based around the changes- even if they claim otherwise. Yet you say things like 'disrespect', implying you know how to read minds. There are times when directors have been disrespectful to the source and discarded it, such as with "Exorcist 2" or the first American "Godzilla", but those filmmakers admitted to hating the originals. Rian Johnson seems like a fan based on interviews and even then, what is the betrayal to Star Wars? It actually DID follow a lot of what we saw in the original trilogy, it just used our expectations against us. For example, the whole segment with Rey, Kylo and Snoke is actually very similar to the scene between Luke, Vader and the Emperor in "RotJ", except it happens in a much different place in the overarching story, does not lead to a face turn from Kylo and Snoke went out rather unceremoniously. Is that disrespectful? If this was disrespectful, "TLJ" wouldn't even resemble "Star Wars"
> 
> Are the prequels also disrespectful? They're less "Star Wars"-y than "TLJ". The only reason words like 'disrespectful' get thrown around like this is because you didn't like the direction Johnson took the story. He wanted to challenge the audience, not play it safe, which is exactly what the audience was demanding after "TFA". Now if you think the movie is bad, then just say it's bad. Don't call it a betrayal or disrespectful or whatever words the detractors love throwing out there, because it makes you all seem like you want the franchise to stick to the safe formula.



I didn't mentioned the word "disrespectful" once in all my posts here. Yeah, he tried to challenge the audience, the result of said challenge was horrible.

I did not disliked it because he challenged the audience, I disliked it because the result of said challenge.



MartialHorror said:


> you didn't say multiple things.



It doesn't need to be literal multiple things. The point is a story or movie can have stuff you greatly dislike (like Rey beign a Sue or Ep 7 being a New Hope remake) and you can still at the end of the day enjoy it.



MartialHorror said:


> "or Holdo being a space SJW complete with even the hairstyle"
> 
> And what is an SJW lookalike anyway? You are referring to a 'Social Justice Warrior', right? How does a hair style fit into that? So a female can't teach or correct a male without there being a feminist agenda or them being an SJW? You seem to throw these kinds of words a lot too. It does not make the detractors seem anymore insightful or intelligent. You just kind of look sexist.



Yeah, blame the Star Wars crew for bringing that up to themselves. Like flatout using Star Wars official accounts and symbols to take sides in the 2016 Trump shitfest or say that the Empire is racist white men in command while the alliance is a diverse group led by brave women.

In light of all of this, it certaintly feels like feminist pandering.



MartialHorror said:


> Edit: As for how they treated Luke, what part do you think was worse? The fact that he became a recluse? Or that he tried to kill young Kylo? If it's the latter, then fans seem to forget that after all that talk of saving Vader, he was very ready to kill him until the Emperor started taunting him. I feel like Luke was always straddling the dark side, based on "Return of the Jedi" and "Empire". You can read into that differently, but this sudden darker interpretation did not come out of thin air.



Both and you can't compare Vader. The Vader stuff was a teen Luke outright immersed in the Dark Side and feeling it by himself for the first time, after he tried multiple times bringing him back, got constantly pissed by Palpatine and Vader threatened to hurt her sister after Vader actually tried to harm him.

Here we have an experienced master Luke that actually knows by firsthand experience that believing in the inherent good of even the worst monsters pay off, as it delivered his greatest victory, contemplating to preemptively killing his own blood who at that point had done nothing wrong just becuase of what he might do to the point of actually igniting his lightsaber ready to kill.

Maybe look was always bordering the dark side? In that case, they should had made this apparent or explore the story based on this, rather not at all.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 20, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> All of which could had been avoided if Holdo actually explained her plan, which she kept to herself for no reason.



Poe also kept his own plan hidden from Holdo for no reason, so both were in the dark about what the other was doing.



Orochibuto said:


> Yes, but again as Mark Hamill said, this is not Luke Skywalker, the Luke that we saw in the OT would never had thought on killing his family just because of what he MIGHT do.



Darth Vader: If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will...

Luke: NEVER!

Luke came pretty close to that point back in "Return of the Jedi".  Let us not forget that Hamill himself   In a way, Kylo Ren is the "dark side" traits of both Anakin and Luke - he's got the Skywalker Whining Gene, _and _Kylo having his parents in his sight is about in line with Luke's suggestion in the video below (11:00 mark):


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

Atlas said:


> Can we just refer to Nu-SW Luke as Jake instead?



Considering Mark treats Disney Wars Luke as an alternate version, pretty much yeah.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Poe also kept his own plan hidden from Holdo for no reason, so both were in the dark about what the other was doing.



She is the commander, and was explaining a plan that looks completely suicidal to everyone rather than explaining why it had a chance. Of course in light fo this Poe or other of his subordinates are going to attempt a counter plan.



Catalyst75 said:


> Darth Vader: If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will...
> 
> Luke: NEVER!
> 
> Luke came pretty close to that point back in "Return of the Jedi".  Let us not forget that Hamill himself   In a way, Kylo Ren is the "dark side" traits of both Anakin and Luke - he's got the Skywalker Whining Gene, _and _Kylo having his parents in his sight is about in line with Luke's suggestion in the video below (11:00 mark):



This was in completely different circumstances. A completely unexperienced Luke that actually was immersed in the Dark Side to the point its power was flowing through him, was proded by Palpatine multiple times and was in a heated fight with Vader.

This is a way experienced Luke engaging in preemptive murder attempt of his own blood, when he was done nothing wrong.

And again, all of this is without even addressing the shitfest on having an actual imposing (suppossedly) extremely powerful villain, replaced by a whiny teen that looks like Space Sasuke-Snape, way weaker than him, that is the underdog to the heroine, making the First Order look like a complete joke. While also explaining absolutely nothing about said villain who was built up to be a great mystery. Which to me is what finally broke the movie for me.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2017)

Fang said:


> No. This is completely false.
> 
> No. Even in the original novelization for Episode VI, the Emperor's appearance was stated due to the influence and corruption of the dark side. Nothing to do with him simply being "old". Scratch that, its even covered in the script for ROTJ.
> 
> ...



- Ah, I have not read the books or the script, so I wasn't aware of that.
- Once again, so? Is this even how the script or novelization for TLJ reads? Have you considered that Serkis- an actor primarily known for his use of body language- simply used that as a reference to how he played the character.
- I have no idea what you're third point is referring to, as I didn't even mention Palpatine there. It's just a common visual to see amongst elderly villains, because apparently hunched old people are creepy. I don't remember if Palpatine was hunched or not.



Orochibuto said:


> I didn't mentioned the word "disrespectful" once in all my posts here. Yeah, he tried to challenge the audience, the result of said challenge was horrible.
> 
> I did not disliked it because he challenged the audience, I disliked it because the result of said challenge.



You said 'explicit purpose of pissing off the fans' and 'sever ties with them', is that not pretty disrespectful? That's also an absurd claim anyway, as if anything, "TLJ" panders.




> Yeah, blame the Star Wars crew for bringing that up to themselves. Like flatout using Star Wars official accounts and symbols to take sides in the 2016 Trump shitfest or say that the Empire is racist white men in command while the alliance is a diverse group led by brave women.
> 
> In light of all of this, it certaintly feels like feminist pandering.



You're deflecting and seriously, a lot of movies deal with their times. Or do you get equally in arms because Lucas used Nazi imagery to show how the storm troopers are bad guys, or how the prequels were jabs at the Bush administration? Obviously if you took issue with those, fair enough...I guess?



> Both and you can't compare Vader. The Vader stuff was a teen Luke outright immersed in the Dark Side and feeling it by himself for the first time, after he tried multiple times bringing him back, got constantly pissed by Palpatine and Vader threatened to hurt her sister after Vader actually tried to harm him.
> 
> Here we have an experienced master Luke that actually knows by firsthand experience that believing in the inherent good of even the worst monsters pay off, as it delivered his greatest victory, contemplating to preemptively killing his own blood who at that point had done nothing wrong just becuase of what he might do to the point of actually igniting his lightsaber ready to kill.
> 
> Maybe look was always bordering the dark side? In that case, they should had made this apparent or explore the story based on this, rather not at all.



You actually bring up a good point here. I cannot really refute it, although I won't concede it as just because Luke is older does not automatically mean he has controlled his impulses. It doesn't seem THAT OOC for me, but you did at least explain how it's OOC to you. "Star Wars" has always been overdramatic. Luke is barely phased by the death of his Aunt and Uncle, who had been his surrogate parents, but is heartbroken by the death of Obi Wan. This is because his reactions are more for the audience sake, so the 'he had ignited his light saber, ready to kill' doesn't irk me as it's more for the audience to understand what he's feeling.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 20, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> And again, all of this is without even addressing the shitfest on having an actual imposing (suppossedly) extremely powerful villain, replaced by a whiny teen that looks like Space Sasuke-Snape



Kylo Ren is more like Anakin Skywalker during the Prequel Trilogy, and apprentice killing the master by subterfuge has always been how succession among Dark Side users goes within Star Wars lore.

As for Snoke, _he's just like Palpatine in the Original Trilogy_.  Back then, he was just a mysterious and old Dark Side user who spent most of his screen-time talking, with only _the last couple minutes_ involving him assaulting Luke with Force Lightning before being chucked down a reactor shaft by Vader.  

In the Original Trilogy, Vader killing his master rather than killing Luke was the moment he returned to the Light Side.  The Sequel Trilogy has Kylo Ren kill Snoke rather than kill Rey, but flips the scenario around (the rhyme between the Original and Sequel, as it were) by having Kylo Ren _not _relinquish the Dark Side, and instead embrace it and beckon Rey to join him.   

It is rather poetic when you think about it: Anakin's redemption and death are marked by the removal of Vader's Mask, just as the Prequel Trilogy marked the transition with the donning of it.  In the case of Kylo Ren, we see him destroy the Mask he wears to emulate his grandfather, which further compounds when Kylo Ren chooses to _embrace the Dark Side_ after killing Snoke and wishes for Rey to join him, in defiance of Rey hoping to redeem him.


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## Fang (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> - Ah, I have not read the books or the script, so I wasn't aware of that.



Yes, its not due to the Prequels at all.



> - Once again, so? Is this even how the script or novelization for TLJ reads? Have you considered that Serkis- an actor primarily known for his use of body language- simply used that as a reference to how he played the character.



That's not my problem. 99% of Serkis in this movie is being a voice actor. What "body" language is there in a character whose 99% of the time only brought to life from CGI?



> - I have no idea what you're third point is referring to, as I didn't even mention Palpatine there. It's just a common visual to see amongst elderly villains, because apparently hunched old people are creepy. I don't remember if Palpatine was hunched or not.



Then it was pointless of you to bring up in the first place. Also are you by any way a relation of DDJ's?


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## Glued (Dec 20, 2017)

I still believe that Jar Jar Binks was meant to be a villain and secretly reborn Darth Plagues.

Jar Jar gave Palpatine the power to be emperor
Jar Jar's lips are moving while Panaka is talking.
Jar Jar's hands are always moving with Boss Nass, and Queen Amidala.
Jar Jar's lips are moving behind Padme's back
Jar Jar's eyes are similar to the Sith
Jar Jar caused the crash on Tatooine

In the cartoons

Jar Jar is even called a plague by Hondo's men
Jar Jar is able commune with animals
Jar Jar does meditation techniques with force sensitive alien race
Jar Jar helps Mace Windu eliminate a Dathomiri witch.
Jar Jar scoffs at a Evil Scientist who says he's creating life.

That line in episode 1: Always a bigger fish. At the core of Naboo there were three fishes.

The first one was maul.
The second one was Palpatine
But the big fish at the core was none other Jar Jar.

call me insane, but I believe Lucas chickened out in episode 2 with the introduction of Dooku.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 20, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> See this is another way of saying "I don't want this franchise to do anything new".


hey


you know what would be new and interesting 


a main character that is


a former child soldier


lowly stormtrooper 


defecting to the rebels and


after learning that he's force sensitive 


works his way up to becoming a jedi


and you know 


not turn out to be a token comic relief character 


that would be pretty 


new

Reactions: Like 2


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> hey
> 
> 
> you know what would be new and interesting
> ...


Tfw TFA trailers originally implied this


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## Skaddix (Dec 20, 2017)

New is not the problem more of what they choose to do that is new. New is not always Good or Better.


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)

Most of what they've done isn't even to SW. Some of the only ''new'' stuff here is the comedy which makes the movie feel like the Star Trek movies directed by JJ.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 20, 2017)

About Snoke needing no backstory because the Emperor had none:

In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.

But since Episode I we know that all Sith are part of a linear master-student chain of transmission going back to, presumably, the first Sith. Whoever that is.

So given how Sidious is supposed to have killed his master, and neither Maul, Tyrannus nor Vader left any apprentices, you kind of need to address where Snoke came from and how he fits into the genealogy.

It could be that he's not actually an official Sith, giving how neither he nor Kylo uses the title "Darth".


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## Mider T (Dec 20, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.


Lucas already had that planned out though.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> About Snoke needing no backstory because the Emperor had none:
> 
> In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.
> 
> ...



Also to address how he became so powerful and influential in the first place.

You dont get to rule a galactic government and be the master of the dark side, just by using The Force and being bad.

It takes huge potential, years of training and specialized teachings, Sith or not.

What was Snoke "I saw the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire" doing all those years? We dont know, we are never told.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 20, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> About Snoke needing no backstory because the Emperor had none:
> 
> In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.
> 
> ...



The Sith were the most powerful and infamous group of Dark side users in the galaxy's history.  Assuming that any new Dark Sider _has to be Sith_ or connected to them ignores the fact there were other Dark Side groups like the Nightsisters of Dathomir.  

Snoke could fall under the same vein as the Nightsisters: a powerful Dark Side user who emerged separately from the Sith hierarchy, nor being a Dark Jedi like the Inquisitors, yet one still aware of the lore of the Sith.


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## Glued (Dec 20, 2017)

This entire new trilogy was dumb because it basically means the Rebel victory at Endor was pointless.

It just all went to shit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The Sith were the most powerful and infamous group of Dark side users in the galaxy's history.  Assuming that any new Dark Sider _has to be Sith_ or connected to them ignores the fact there were other Dark Side groups like the Nightsisters of Dathomir.
> 
> Snoke could fall under the same vein as the Nightsisters: a powerful Dark Side user who emerged separately from the Sith hierarchy, nor being a Dark Jedi like the Inquisitors, yet one still aware of the lore of the Sith.



Which still should had been explained.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 20, 2017)

@MartialHorror The notion that if you don't like the direction this movie, then you don't want change us funny to me.


Can you explain that a little more? Isn't it a writers job to find that sweet spot that would appease fans and casuals alike?


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## Orochibuto (Dec 20, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> This entire new trilogy was dumb because it basically means the Rebel victory at Endor was pointless.
> 
> It just all went to shit.



Given how they already made the First Order a joke by having their Death Star blown, capital ship destroyed, leader killed and now being lead by a retarded emo, all of this in the span of around a week, they might as well had gone all out and keep the First Order as a remnant facing the established Republic, with the sequel being a mop-up to finish the Rebel Victory.

Not that its very different from the current fuckery, even Sasuke Ren is the underdog to his lightside counterpart.

Might as well just had made it an empire/dark side underdog story from the beginning.


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## Imagine (Dec 20, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> About Snoke needing no backstory because the Emperor had none:
> 
> In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.
> 
> ...


I don't even need a Sidious/Vader parallel with Snoke/Kylo. Snoke's the one that brought Kylo to this point so why can't we know _something_ about him?


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Imagine said:


> I don't even need a Sidious/Vader parallel with Snoke/Kylo. Snoke's the one that brought Kylo to this point so why can't we know _something_ about him?





"B-Because its not important! This movie is not a wikipedia article, okay? You were told exactly all you needed to know about Snoke! Its almost 2018, let the past die dude!"


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## dr_shadow (Dec 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The Sith were the most powerful and infamous group of Dark side users in the galaxy's history.  Assuming that any new Dark Sider _has to be Sith_ or connected to them ignores the fact there were other Dark Side groups like the Nightsisters of Dathomir.
> 
> Snoke could fall under the same vein as the Nightsisters: a powerful Dark Side user who emerged separately from the Sith hierarchy, nor being a Dark Jedi like the Inquisitors, yet one still aware of the lore of the Sith.



Is any of that still canon though?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> @MartialHorror The notion that if you don't like the direction this movie, then you don't want change us funny to me.
> 
> 
> Can you explain that a little more? Isn't it a writers job to find that sweet spot that would appease fans and casuals alike?


regardless of what fans & casuals think; and disregarding nonsensical story decisions, contradictory themes, lore breaking elements and character assassinations...this movie's plot is broken from the very first scene and continues to be so in nearly every scene after that.


it is a terrible, poorly written and hardly thought out script put through a beautiful filter of special effects and 'shiny'...because the audience are mostly idiots who can't be asked to pay attention to anything for more than 10 seconds at a time.

this is a bad fucking movie

Reactions: Like 3


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> About Snoke needing no backstory because the Emperor had none:
> 
> In Return of the Jedi we hadn't yet established that there are only ever two Sith. So nobody thought it was weird for there to be random Dark Side users.
> 
> ...



Pretty much this you don't need to know where the Emperor came from cause the series was brand new. Evil King is a pretty classic archetype. Snoke though is causing trouble in the same time period...his background wouldn't matter if this was 300 years after ANH. But since its a mere 30 and he is clearly old enough to be active during the OT and PT...well the question arises what was he doing back then.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> regardless of what fans & casuals think; and disregarding nonsensical story decisions, contradictory themes, lore breaking elements and character assassinations...this movie's plot is broken from the very first scene and continues to be so in nearly every scene after that.
> 
> 
> it is a terrible, poorly written and hardly thought out script put through a beautiful filter of special effects and 'shiny'...because the audience are mostly idiots who can't be asked to pay attention to anything for more than 10 seconds at a time.
> ...



Agreed it fails on basic logic even without factoring in Star Wars Lore Knowledge or the Racist content which makes it oh so much worse.

Character Assassination, Massive Retcons To The Force even if I ignore the previous trilogies.... I can still blow holes without like Rey giving a shit about redeeming Kylo when this is what a few days after TFA? A nonsensical chase scene when the First Order presumably runs the galaxy and isn't running out of gas? Holdo telling no one her plan for no good reason besides drama? Finn and Rose having enough time to go off on a pointless side adventure?

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Given how they already made the First Order a joke by having their Death Star blown, capital ship destroyed, leader killed and now being lead by a retarded emo, they might as well had gone all out and keep the First Order as a remnant facing the established Republic, with the sequel being a mop-up to finish the Rebel Victory.



I will not disagree about how badly the losses they suffered reflect on them, even considering they struck a hard enough first blow when they destroyed Hosnian Prime and the fleet there, and have enough military might left to assert their power.  But I imagine it is an intended result - while the First Order is powerful, _it cannot last_.  

The First Order is opposite of the theme of "letting the past go", given their entire _modus operandi_ is to remake the Galactic Empire anew.  They are very much just a remnant seeking to reclaim past glory, and they ended up repeating all the same mistakes the Empire did, and so will likely fall by those same mistakes.  



mr_shadow said:


> Is any of that still canon though?



Shadow, all of _Rebels _and _Clone Wars_ is still part of the Disney canon.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> all of _Rebels _and _Clone Wars_ is still part of the Disney canon.



I haven't seen those because they're not conveniently available in Hong Kong. They're not on our version of Netflix, and my dorm blocks BitTorrent.

Which is why I'm asking if any of the alternative Force users are featured in them.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 21, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> I haven't seen those because they're not conveniently available in Hong Kong. They're not on our version of Netflix, and my dorm blocks BitTorrent.
> 
> Which is why I'm asking if any of the alternative Force users are featured in them.



It makes me wonder if the US will be hit by similar restrictions as Hong Kong, given those idiots down in the States decided to repeal Net Neutrality. 

But yes, the Nightsisters feature heavily in _Clone Wars, _given how strongly they are part of Darth Maul's story arc.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Agreed it fails on basic logic even without factoring in Star Wars Lore Knowledge or the Racist content which makes it oh so much worse.
> 
> Character Assassination, Massive Retcons To The Force even if I ignore the previous trilogies.... I can still blow holes without like Rey giving a shit about redeeming Kylo when this is what a few days after TFA? A nonsensical chase scene when the First Order presumably runs the galaxy and isn't running out of gas? Holdo telling no one her plan for no good reason besides drama? Finn and Rose having enough time to go off on a pointless side adventure?


_nothing_ in this movie makes sense; not the timeline, the events, the characters - nothing. 

For once I wish i were exaggerating. I went in wanting to like this; I even respect the decision to go in a new direction, to evolve the story.

But nothing in the movie makes sense!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

It is funny how they are like let the past die and yet decided to repeat the OT with the only major change being this time Darth Vader is an emo brat who actually takes out the Emperor. 

Well if you wanted to let the past die maybe don't reboot?


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> _nothing_ in this movie makes sense; not the timeline, the events, the characters - nothing.
> 
> For once I wish i were exaggerating. I went in wanting to like this; I even respect the decision to go in a new direction, to evolve the story.
> 
> But nothing in the movie makes sense!



Yeah forget the cartoons...I am still not convinced RJ watched OT much less TFA....this reads like its the first movie in a series not the 9th or 2nd in a Trilogy. And even ignoring the past movies....it still fails with massive flaws in the A Plot...Rey wanting to redeem Kylo at all....massive flaws in the B Plot the whole chase makes zero sense from CIS to poor time lines, to running out of fuel, to not cutting them off...I mean sheesh even bad police shows call a blockade when people are fleeing here the first order cant even do that.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## dr_shadow (Dec 21, 2017)

And wait a minute, they talk like hyperspace tracking is a new technology, but...

Didn't the Empire track the Falcon from (formerly) Alderaan to Yavin??? IN THE VERY FIRST MOVIE?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> And wait a minute, they talk like hyperspace tracking is a new technology, but...
> 
> Didn't the Empire track the Falcon from (formerly) Alderaan to Yavin??? IN THE VERY FIRST MOVIE?


Vader put a tracker on the Falcon because he thinks about little details like this...unlike the hack script writers who put this movie together

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> And wait a minute, they talk like hyperspace tracking is a new technology, but...
> 
> Didn't the Empire track the Falcon from (formerly) Alderaan to Yavin??? IN THE VERY FIRST MOVIE?



it is new in the sense that some how the First Order can do it without a tracking device

Still its weird that Snoke doesn't even know about this device on his own ship....

But beyond that the Empire had a whole galaxy of resources to build their tech and Palps was in a position to get the ball rolling at minimum a decade before that.

So how the First Order has the resources to build not just Star Killer but a brand new tracking radar array that can find anything I don't understand...and yet they still cant catch up to a ship that is low on fuel.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> So how the First Order has the resources to build not just Star Killer but a brand new tracking radar array that can find anything I don't understand...and yet they still cant catch up to a ship that is low on fuel.


you don't need to go that far into the story to find bullshit

how about PoeD just waltzing up to a Dreadnought and disabling it like his bad momma joke to Hux is gonna make me forget about these ships having shields...

Finn waking up a few hours after a lightsaber nearly split him in half. Was the bacta suit comedy scene really that important?
wouldn't some droid surgery or cybernetic replacements been more appropriate?

Every scene Gremlin girl is in; every line she speaks; the decision to create her character. Everything about her_deleted_ would make this movie better.

I'm gonna stop now because i know i can just keep going endlessly_and it's just gonna piss me off.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 21, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> So how the First Order has the resources to build not just Star Killer but a brand new tracking device I don't understand...and yet they still cant catch up to a ship.



It is about how the ships are designed, I imagine.  The First Order, like the Empire, put emphasis on intimidation and firepower when considering their ship designs.  Such designs would have sacrificed speed, especially in the case of something as big as _Supremacy, _whereas the New Republic ships would have focused more on speed and defence, hence how the _Raddus_ could keep out of effective range of the fleet.



Skaddix said:


> it is new in the sense that some how the First Order can do it without a tracking device
> 
> Still its weird that Snoke doesn't even know about this device on his own ship....



The device was not just on the _Supremacy_; the whole point behind the Canto Bight sub-plot was because the First Order could just switch tracking to another ship if they destroyed the lead tracking ship.  Hux's own ship first tracked them through Hyperspace; when _Supremacy _joined the fleet, the lead tracking ship switched to it.  



RAGING BONER said:


> how about PoeD just waltzing up to a Dreadnought and disabling it like his bad momma joke to Hux is gonna make me forget about these ships having shields...



The _Finalizer's_ guns were similarly vulnerable to fighter attack, and Ren was _inside the* Raddus' *shields when he launched his assault_.  Either Poe flies so close to capital ships that he is inside the shields, or Star Wars turrets are vulnerable to damage from fighter attacks, even with the shields up.  

As for that Dreadnought, the design makes it clear it was cripplingly over-specialized: it's built around those auto-cannons, with only the bare minimum given to its own defence.  Despite that bare minimum, I imagine that was the point of the booster engine on his X-Wing - he needed to get in fast enough to get under its anti-fighter turrets.



RAGING BONER said:


> Finn waking up a few hours after a lightsaber nearly split him in half



A week at most, I believe it was.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kurak (Dec 21, 2017)

The whole new trilogy is boring for me. Its the same shit we have seen before. Republic vs empire, good jedi and evil jedi, why SW must be so schematic? Not to mention they wanted something new with those ass-weak plot twists (Snoke as nobody is fucking retarted) and what we have for episode 9? 

*Kylo vs Rey number 2*

BOOOOOOORINGGGG

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

Trash movie.

Star Wars: The Last White Male was the worst SW movie ever

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

@Weiss 


Get out here

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

That movie was bad.

Don't lie to me, Flutter

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Vermilion Kn (Dec 21, 2017)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

Wow. Can't even watch a movie these days without this kind of BS.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

Vermilion Kn said:


> https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women
> 
> Wow. Can't even watch a movie these days without this kind of BS.


Petition to de-canon TLJ needs to happen

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

I see the far-left nutcases and far-right nutcases are losing their shit over this movie and it's ridiculous. In my honest opinion it is a lackluster movie but not becomes of "gender communists" or some shit like that. People can't see the forest for the trees, this wasn't some SJW shit, it was disjointed.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1 | Disagree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I see the far-left nutcases and far-right nutcases are losing their shit over this movie and it's ridiculous. In my honest opinion it is a lackluster movie but not becomes of "gender communists" or some shit like that. People can't see the forest for the trees, this wasn't some SJW shit, it was disjointed.


All the females are stronk tho.

Where would the men be without these stronk females to teach them lessons!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I see the far-left nutcases and far-right nutcases are losing their shit over this movie and it's ridiculous. In my honest opinion it is a lackluster movie but not becomes of "gender communists" or some shit like that. People can't see the forest for the trees, this wasn't some SJW shit, it was disjointed.



I just think its a shit movie because its filled with nonsensical sub-plots, a good third of the movie could be disregarded with everything with Finn and Rose because it adds absolutely nothing to the overarching plot at all and is utterly nonsensical and convoluted trash put in the story just to eat up more time; Benecio's character is beyond the pale stupid, the film never finds its feet with its own identity copying major moments from TESB and ROTJ, the lightspeed ramming basically shitting on every rule we know about naval combat in Star Wars movies to be a convenient plot contrivance, the humor was uninspired garbage with almost 5 minutes of straight up "yo mamma" jokes from Poe to Hux.

There are so many valid reasons why this is a bad movie without needing to go there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> All the females are stronk tho.
> 
> Where would the men be without these stronk females to teach them lessons!



Yeah, but I think that too is a cynical move to shield the movie from criticism. Because they know some people are dumb enough to go at any critic of it and start bleating them on accusations of being a sexist. Ghostbusters 2016 was the same way. That shit wasn't progressive, it was just a cynical ploy to exploit the social climate, but ONLY JUST ENOUGH. Truthfully, women are a growing share of the market in entertainment, and nothing wrong at all with trying to capitalize on that. It just can get hamfisted, and I would wager for the younger female demographic that is why they put that Kylo/Rey stuff in the movie too.



Fang said:


> I just think its a shit movie because its filled with nonsensical sub-plots, a good third of the movie could be disregarded with everything with Finn and Rose because it adds absolutely nothing to the overarching plot at all and is utterly nonsensical and convoluted trash put in the story just to eat up more time; Benecio's character is beyond the pale stupid, the film never finds its feet with its own identity copying major moments from TESB and ROTJ, the lightspeed ramming basically shitting on every rule we know about naval combat in Star Wars movies to be a convenient plot contrivance, the humor was uninspired garbage with almost 5 minutes of straight up "yo mamma" jokes from Poe to Hux.
> 
> There are so many valid reasons why this is a bad movie without needing to go there.



It does become plain as day another person wrote this than the first one. Honestly, they could have put the movie off for another year to have that same writer continue on for the rest of the trilogy.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I see the far-left nutcases and far-right nutcases are losing their shit over this movie and it's ridiculous. In my honest opinion it is a lackluster movie but not becomes of "gender communists" or some shit like that. People can't see the forest for the trees, this wasn't some SJW shit, it was disjointed.



There were some SJW problems, but the actual major problems of the movie (Snoke, Luke, Lolkylo as FV, the First Order looking like Team Rocket) are so terrible, it makes the SJW shit insignificant.


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 21, 2017)

I went to see the movie a second time and it was really worth it. Some shots were breathtaking, if I had the chance I would have watched the final again and again.

Absolutely loving the take on the Jedi. Luke is humanized, pressured by responsibilities and fame, and closer to the reality of a 50-60 years old man with many regrets in life. 
In the original movies nobody gave a shit about Luke, he always came after Han and Vader. Because he was a cardboard hero, with no character no training but innate proficiency, he was a Gary Stu.
This movie gave him personality, weaknesses, layers and a way stronger contextualization of his relationship with the Force.
Luke's final battle and send off will become iconic of the Jedi figure.

Sadly the pacing issues were even more striking, even tho I still think the Canto Bight segment was severely needed to give some flesh to the world building of a - so far- very dry trilogy.
Imperials were way beyond stupid and Snoke was still a joke. Still waiting for a Star Wars movie where the bad guys will be portraited with same passion as the Kotor games did.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> Because he was a cardboard hero, with no character no training but innate proficiency, he was a Gary Stu.



He got his ass handed to him in the 2nd movie. He was plagued with doubt throughout the entire trilogy up until the conclusion.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 21, 2017)

yeah what is this bullshit people are on with that "luke was perfect too!" did none of you watch TESB

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

"humanized". Like it isn't human to grow out of your self-doubt and regrets, *SOMETHING HE DID IN THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 21, 2017)

OT Luke is in no way a gary stu,  but i do agree he was mostly the vanilla hero and came in waaaay second to me after Vader,  Han and a few more chars



Loved his line to Palps in ROTJ tho


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 21, 2017)

Also i love Lukes snark here

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Maybe the First Order is the prequel to Team Rocket, of course TR is way more threatening.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> I went to see the movie a second time and it was really worth it. Some shots were breathtaking, if I had the chance I would have watched the final again and again.
> 
> Absolutely loving the take on the Jedi. Luke is humanized, pressured by responsibilities and fame, and closer to the reality of a 50-60 years old man with many regrets in life.
> In the original movies nobody gave a shit about Luke, he always came after Han and Vader. Because he was a cardboard hero, with no character no training but innate proficiency, he was a Gary Stu.
> ...



Imagine if Luke with absolutely zero training defeated Vader and could pilot the Falcon better than Han.

Now THAT would be a Gary Stu.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (Dec 21, 2017)

Seems to me that most of the complaints about this movie, have to do with the fact that TLJ hasn't answered questions set up in TFA, and people are projecting their own answers onto Episode IX to these questions, while at the same time arguing they are only evaluating TLJ itself.

Example: Snoke was killed off by Kylo. People are then projecting that in Episode IX that Snoke will just be some nobody (not explained) and Kylo of TLJ will be FV. Many people don't like this idea and are penalizing TLJ for it, despite the fact that this scenario hasn't come to pass and there are many other scenarios that could play out: Snoke could actually have his own secret master, which will explain Snoke origins and present a new FV. Kylo could change drastically with a time-skip happening between TLJ and IX making him a much more compelling villain. Etc..

Another Example: Rey being a nobody. People are projecting that based on Kylo/Snoke's words about Rey's parents that she will be a Nobody and therefore there is no explanation of her incredible power with the force, making her a Mary Sue. While again there are many other possibilities for this. Snoke/Kylo could have been lying. It could Rey's Grand-Father or Grand-Mother whose important not her parents, leading the parents subplot to be a misdirect. etc...

And I could go on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 21, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

I'm still puzzled that people actually wanted Rey to be a Skywalker.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

"Luke"
"vanilla hero"

lol

Reactions: Agree 4


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

Turrin said:


> Seems to me that most of the complaints about this movie, have to do with the fact that TLJ hasn't answered questions set up in TFA, and people are projecting their own answers onto Episode IX to these questions, while at the same time arguing they are only evaluating TLJ itself.


bruh, no. No.

the movie makes no damn sense!


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## ~VK~ (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I'm still puzzled that people actually wanted Rey to be a Skywalker.


the only thing people wanted was actual pay off from the whole mystery that was set up in TFA. and an explanation as to why she's seemingly the perfect second coming of anakin skywalker space jesus wouldn't have hurt either.

for the record i never thought nor wanted her to be a skywalker and the idea of her being a nobody who came from nothing is definitely not a bad one(even though a certain stormtrooper filled that role far better already...) but the bad execution and the fact that it had to ignore the obvious previous set up in TFA makes the whole thing feel pretty pointless.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 21, 2017)

Well the Skywalker Lightsaber Called to her, she was dreaming of the Island Luke was on and the lightsaber came to her not Kylo at the end. If they wanted her to be random then give her last name, show her parents and don't cutaway every time someone shouts "What Girl" be it Kylo or Maz.


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

I'm going to be forever salty I never got to see Luke show how OP he became as a gray Jedi in his later age in life.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## The Runner (Dec 21, 2017)

Bubyrd Ratcatcher said:


> Because he was a cardboard hero, with no character no training but innate proficiency, he was a Gary Stu.


What makes being a Gary Stu or a Mary Sue terrible isn't specifically the power or how good you are with it.

Being innatly proficient in something doesn't make you a Mary Sue. Most of the main characters in fiction are innatly proficient in _something._ 

Its how the universe just fucking bends to their will.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 21, 2017)

Whelp I am at the theater so I will see what all the hubbub is all about.


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

Superman said:


> Whelp I am at the theater so I will see what all the hubbub is all about.




May the Power Protect you

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Djomla (Dec 21, 2017)

Superman said:


> Whelp I am at the theater so I will see what all the hubbub is all about.



Close your eyes. Picture Lois Lane. It will be a better experience.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> the only thing people wanted was actual pay off from the whole mystery that was set up in TFA. and an explanation as to why she's seemingly the perfect second coming of anakin skywalker space jesus wouldn't have hurt either.
> 
> for the record i never thought nor wanted her to be a skywalker and the idea of her being a nobody who came from nothing is definitely not a bad one(even though a certain stormtrooper filled that role far better already...) but the bad execution and the fact that it had to ignore the obvious previous set up in TFA makes the whole thing feel pretty pointless.



It's called "plot twist".

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> It's called "plot twist".


why do i even bother


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> It's called "plot twist".



A plot twist requires a twist.


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## Rax (Dec 21, 2017)

I'm curious to what percentage the movie will be better if I get a copy with all the Finn and Rose bits taken out


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A plot twist requires a twist.



The twist was her being a nobody despite the previous film hinting to the contrary.

Also knows as a subversion.


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## Gabe (Dec 21, 2017)

Saw it again. It’s an okay movie just it still did not feel to me like all the Star Wars movie before. After seeing the previous movies i was happy and excited for the series. Now I do not know. Feels like a big FU to the old fans at times. Saw Kevin smiths review about the movies and he said he felt there was a lot of big FU to JJ Abrams and the FA at times and i have to agree.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Its now down to 54% in rotten tomatoes, but lets just dismiss this as alt-right 4chan anti-SJW troll attack

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The twist was her being a nobody despite the previous film hinting to the contrary.
> 
> Also knows as a subversion.



That's not a twist. That's just falling flat.

By that logic half the shit in Naruto was a twist. Shit that doesn't deliver isn't a fucking twist.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That's not a twist. That's just falling flat.
> 
> By that logic half the shit in Naruto was a twist. Shit that doesn't deliver isn't a fucking twist.





I probably used the wrong term. Subverted trope is closer to being right.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I probably used the wrong term. Subverted trope is closer to being right.



subversions are not automatically good, witty, clever, or original.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> subversions are not automatically good, witty, clever, or original.



This is true. There are probably millions of examples of subversions in fiction, some are good or bad.

But your initial point was that the Ray thing was bad because it didn't deliver the previous film's promise. I am saying that they had no obligation whatsoever to deliver to any such promise.

Another subversion was to Snoke being a major character in this trilogy, for example. Or Kylo not turning good (which is more like a double subversion because him turning good would have been a subversion itself). This film is subversion central.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> This is true. There are probably millions of examples of subversions in fiction, some are good or bad.
> 
> But your initial point was that the Ray thing was bad because it didn't deliver the previous film's promise. I am saying that they had no obligation whatsoever to deliver to any such promise.
> 
> Another subversion was to Snoke being a major character in this trilogy, for example. Or Kylo turning good (which is more like a double subversion because him turning good would have been a subversion itself). This film is subversion central.



That's a pointless argument. It's about reasonable expectation, not absolute obligation. They could have done anything they wanted technically, that doesn't make it good writing necessarily. So to say "they had no obligation" is redundant, and doesn't address a single thing.

Or maybe it's just disjointed writing because they had a new writer head this story, rather than stick with the previous? It's something that happens in comics all the time. The fact that you have to keep listing these 'subversions' lend more credence to a lack of synchronization than subversion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

>using TVTropes to make your argument for you

lol

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

Also



El oh el these are not good numbers for Disney with the recent Fox buyout 

They'll be shitting themselves if this doesn't break even a billion by the end of the Month, people are not rewatching this or returning to pay for more tickets again, especially with the already aforementioned bullshit Disney is sticking to theaters and the obscene ticket prices (I had to pay $15 USD to watch this at my local theater before 4pm during MATINEE hours)

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> That's a pointless argument. It's about reasonable expectation, not absolute obligation. They could have done anything they wanted technically, that doesn't make it good writing necessarily. So to say "they had no obligation" is redundant, and doesn't address a single thing.
> 
> Or maybe it's just disjointed writing because they had a new writer head this story, rather than stick with the previous? It's something that happens in comics all the time. The fact that you have to keep listing these 'subversions' lend more credence to a lack of synchronization than subversion.



I don't know why you seem to think that Rey not having an important bloodline wwas such a huge murder of canon. There were people predicting that left and right after the previous film. And people complaining her being a Skywalker or a Kenobi would have been too obvious. This was always one of the main possibilities for her heritage.

Which is why I'm so baffled about it. I didn't expect the fandom to make such a big deal about what was probably the most likely outcome about Rey in the first place. And yes, I think the first film predicted that. It was so obvious I assumed they were going to pull some subversion.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Snoke was also obvious. He had "generic" written all over him. I came to this film expecting him to die before the end of it.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 21, 2017)

i guess pointlessly subverting for the sake of subverting is a good thing nowadays?...

seriously it feels like the arguments in favour our progressively getting worse

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> >using TVTropes to make your argument for you
> 
> lol



You can say something meaningful or you can use an ad hominem.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seriously, if none of you saw Rey having a generic bloodline coming, then you were living in a bubble for the last two years.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> Also
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hope Johnson's trilogy gets cancelled as a result.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> You can say something meaningful or you can use an ad hominem.



>ad hominem

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I don't know why you seem to think that Rey not having an important bloodline wwas such a huge murder of canon. There were people predicting that left and right after the previous film. And people complaining her being a Skywalker or a Kenobi would have been too obvious. This was always one of the main possibilities for her heritage.
> 
> Which is why I'm so baffled about it. I didn't expect the fandom to make such a big deal about what was probably the most likely outcome about Rey in the first place. And yes, I think the first film predicted that. It was so obvious I assumed they were going to pull some subversion.



Not a Skywalker, not even related to Kenobi but SOMETHING of significance. Otherwise disclose it in the first movie and be done with it. Not the holding off on it like they did with some vague hintings, as if it had any real consequence. That's a subversion yes, but it's a *waste of time.*



Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Seriously, if none of you saw Rey having a generic bloodline coming, then you were living in a bubble for the last two years.



Always easy to act like you knew for sure after the fact.


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Hope Johnson's trilogy gets cancelled as a result.



Could happen, Whedon was fired for how Avengers 2 did at the box office.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Always easy to act like you knew for sure after the fact.



I'm telling you I saw multiple sites predicting it. Do you want me to google and link them to you? You are probably used to this game in the Cafe, only this time you are Bacon.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I'm telling you I saw multiple sites predicting it. Do you want me to google and link them to you? You are probably used to this game in the Cafe, only this time you are Bacon.



PREDICTING.

Again, it's always easy to act like you KNOW after the fact. Everyone was predicting. Everyone was guessing. The chicken fell over on one side of the roulette.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> PREDICTING.
> 
> Again, it's always easy to act like you KNOW after the fact. Everyone was predicting. Everyone was guessing. The chicken fell over on one side of the roulette.



Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. I see nothing wrong with this side of the roulette. It always looked like one of the best ones, albeit a little too predictable.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Definitely better than her being a Skywalker. That was the worst side of the roulette, hands down.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Snoke was also obvious. He had "generic" written all over him. I came to this film expecting him to die before the end of it.



Yeah, it was super obvious. Like nothing ever was hinted about him being important at all. I mean being the leader of the first order? Completely irrelevant! Having a guide released on him? Nothing of importance. Stuff like having a ring made out of the rock beneath Vader's castle implying a connection to him? Who cares, only old fanboys care! Let the past die! Right?

Snoke's actor saying Snoke is the pinnacle of the dark side and implying he is stronger than Vader and Palpatine. You totally say this about a completely irrelevant character right?

"I saw the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire" Nope, not important at all.

Lol.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Yeah, it was super obvious. Like nothing ever was hinted about him being important at all. I mean being the leader of the first order? Completely irrelevant! Having a guide released on him? Nothing of importance. Stuff like having a ring made out of the rock beneath Vader's castle implying a connection to him? Who cares, only old fanboys care! Let the past die! Right?
> 
> Snoke's actor saying Snoke is the pinnacle of the dark side and implying he is stronger than Vader and Palpatine. You totally say this about a completely irrelevant character right?
> 
> ...



Well like most people I didn't keep thinking about SW one week after seeing TFA so I didn't read most of the stuff you mentioned.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

You know what, I think you have a point.

This film was clearly not made for SW fans at all. It was made for generic viewers (like me).

This is why the critics loved it. Most of the critics are not hardcore SW fans. They like cinema as a whole.

Also why the film is sitting at a 55% in RT despite the fact the people who hated it are calling it a 1/10 or 2/10. Because it was a love or hate thing.

I will concede that they could have respected the fans better.

But, as someone who only likes SW casually, I liked the film. If you look at it in a vacumn and pretend it's not an entry in a decades old franchise, it's easily a 7/10 or an 8/10.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 21, 2017)

Rax said:


> I'm curious to what percentage the movie will be better if I get a copy with all the Finn and Rose bits taken out



I honestly think the movie would be better without it.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

I read in some place that this trilogy has no creative direction. Each director is allowed to do whatever they want and not bother about future films.

Which is why MCU is better. Nothing happens in MCU without the ok from Kevin Feige. Edgar Wright was kicked out from Ant-Man because he didn't want to play ball to the whole MCU thing. No one gets to direct a film in that franchise if they don't respect the universe continuity.

While in SW, each director gets full creative freedom to do whatever they think makes a solo good film and no need to worry about continuity.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> I honestly think the movie would be better without it.



Me too. That was the weak part of the film for me too. Take it out and it's more like a 9/10 film.


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Snoke was also obvious. He had "generic" written all over him. I came to this film expecting him to die before the end of it.



I wouldn't say obvious but I somehow also felt he wasn't gonna make it till the end.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Ryxus of the North said:


> I wouldn't say obvious but I somehow also felt he wasn't gonna make it till the end.



Tbh I'm exaggerating for the sake of argument. But during episode VII I've always thought there was something fishy about him. He didn't look like he was worthy of carrying a whole trilogy.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Apparently the staff doesn't know about SW, Rey actress said that she is stronge than Mace Windu and Anakin but weaker than Obi-Wan. That makes no sense.

Yeah I know, its only an actress, but it makes me wonder if this ignorance of SW goes all the way to the director himself.

Mark Hamill should had directed it.


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## Ryxus of the North (Dec 21, 2017)

Think the feeling of him dying this movie came when he made Kylo his bitch the first time.
I kinda wanted more out of the guy though.


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## Mider T (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Apparently the staff doesn't know about SW, Rey actress said that she is stronge than Mace Windu and Anakin but weaker than Obi-Wan. That makes no sense.


This entire statement makes no sense.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Which is why MCU is better. Nothing happens in MCU without the ok from Kevin Feige. Edgar Wright was kicked out from Ant-Man because he didn't want to play ball to the whole MCU thing. No one gets to direct a film in that franchise if they don't respect the universe continuity.
> 
> While in SW, each director gets full creative freedom to do whatever they think makes a solo good film and no need to worry about continuity.


your entire rationale sounds like an argument for why the MCU is worse. which isn't to say i think it is, but to say your reasons are terrible

celebrating a studio functionary having oversight and worshipping "universe continuity" while acting like it's good for a director like edgar wright (better than any director who has yet worked for marvel) to be kicked out because he didn't want to include a pointless tie-in scene involving ant-man trying to steal shit from the avengers and fighting falcon...like, you are the ultimate studio focus-group dullard. you're a sedated corporate subject, not a real person

Reactions: Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Its now down to 54% in rotten tomatoes


> Justice Trash has 80% audience score on RT

thus forever making RT audience score irrelevant beyond irrelevant


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

You will never be as salty as Fluttershy right now

Feels good

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

>proving my point further

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 21, 2017)

Fang said:


> You will never be as salty as Fluttershy right now
> 
> Feels good





(Mindfulness13)

Google translate made it abit shitty, but you get the gist of it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 21, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> I read in some place that this trilogy has no creative direction. Each director is allowed to do whatever they want and not bother about future films.
> 
> Which is why MCU is better. Nothing happens in MCU without the ok from Kevin Feige. Edgar Wright was kicked out from Ant-Man because he didn't want to play ball to the whole MCU thing. No one gets to direct a film in that franchise if they don't respect the universe continuity.
> 
> While in SW, each director gets full creative freedom to do whatever they think makes a solo good film and no need to worry about continuity.


Respect the continuity? Nothing to respect if the most important thing is what's coming next rather than the present product.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Glued (Dec 21, 2017)

I wonder if Hamill is in greater pain than Bill Murray

Reactions: Funny 2 | Informative 2


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## Markerz (Dec 21, 2017)

I just saw the money a few hours ago. I wasn't around for the original trilogy when it first came out so I dont have as much of an attachment to them as other people. I enjoyed this movie it wasn't great but I've seen worse. My biggest problems were holdo not telling anyone her plan and Finn being squandered and that forced as hell "romance" he had with rose.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder if Hamill is in greater pain than Bill Murray



No, no way. SW was terrible, but GB was beyond garbage. The movie was actually hijacked in its entirely and changed beyond its original plot, just to be used as a middle finger against against the anti-SJW crowd.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Markerz said:


> I just saw the money a few hours ago. I wasn't around for the original trilogy when it first came out so I dont have as much of an attachment to them as other people. I enjoyed this movie it wasn't great but I've seen worse. My biggest problems were holdo not telling anyone her plan and Finn being squandered and that forced as hell "romance" he had with rose.



No problem with the main villain being killed midfilm with zero explanation being given to him at all or that now the first order is being lead by a complete joke villain?


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> @MartialHorror The notion that if you don't like the direction this movie, then you don't want change us funny to me.
> 
> 
> Can you explain that a little more? Isn't it a writers job to find that sweet spot that would appease fans and casuals alike?



I didn't say that if you don't like the direction of the movie then you don't want change, but most of the comments from the detractors seem like they come from people who don't know what they want. Of course that's the writers job. The problem with "Star Wars" right now is that it's already kind of run its course. I think it would've had a better chance at creative longevity if they didn't stop at "Return of the Jedi" (originally Lucas had planned on an SW4 focusing entirely on Luke), because I think the hiatus put a cap on what could be done with it. The force example, apparently can only be used to choke people, throw stuff or influence the minds of the weak, because those were the only things that happened in the trilogy. When anything new is added to that list, people freak out because they did not happen in the original trilogy.

"The Force Awakens" was actually smart by playing it safe, as the prequels had actually tried a few new things and broke the fanbase. But you can't rely on that for long and people were already beginning to bitch about TFA for being a formulaic Star Wars film. "The Last Jedi" experimented with a lot of new themes and ideas for Star Wars, but a lot of fans are rejecting it. Personally, I don't care as "The Empire Strikes Back" had a similar reaction upon release. But it just seems like a lot of the detractors are saying a lot of stupid shit. I think a lot of them are so angry that they aren't thinking straight and hearing things like "Holdo is an SJW" makes me want to renounce "Star Wars" in general. This fanbase is toxic.



> That's not my problem. 99% of Serkis in this movie is being a voice actor. What "body" language is there in a character whose 99% of the time only brought to life from CGI?



You do realize Andy Serkis is known as for Motion Capture technology, right? Every movement he does was actually performed by Andy Serkis, who apparently even taped part of his mouth shut to reflect Snoke's f@cked up jaw. He didn't just provide his voice. 



> Then it was pointless of you to bring up in the first place. Also are you by any way a relation of DDJ's?



I still don't even know what you're referring too. What is DDJ's?


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A plot twist requires a twist.



The lack of a twist is one in of itself if you go in expecting a "special heritage" for a certain character.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Markerz (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> No problem with the main villain being killed midfilm with zero explanation being given to him at all or that now the first order is being lead by a complete joke villain?



I didn't really care about snoke in the first place and with how the movie was going I expected nothing from him anyway. Kylo Ren isn't main villian material at all but I'll probably enjoy his utter incompetence as a leader in the next film though.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Not a Skywalker, not even related to Kenobi but SOMETHING of significance. Otherwise disclose it in the first movie and be done with it. Not the holding off on it like they did with some vague hintings, as if it had any real consequence.



For the character, it does have consequence.  The first movie had Rey's greatest concern be her parents, and whether they were coming back for her or not; that continued in the second movie, where her descent into the "mirror cave" was about her trying to find out who she was and who her parents.  The mirror cave showed only Rey, and then the discussion between her and Kylo Ren in the throne room spelled it out - Rey has no special heritage.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Markerz said:


> but I'll probably enjoy his utter incompetence as a leader in the next film though.



Ladies and gentlemen, this is our new Palpatine, our new galactic emperor. A joke character people look forward to see in the next film to laugh at his incompetence.

BTW, this is not a point against you personally @Markerz  or making fun of you as a poster or your post. I actually agree with your post, which is exactly why I completely despise Kylo Ren as main villain.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

Weiss said:


> > Justice Trash has 80% audience score on RT
> 
> thus forever making RT audience score irrelevant beyond irrelevant



Marvel fans and general fans don't care enough to downvote and DC fans are still delusional.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

It's a different scenario because SW fans are not competing against another fandom. DC fans feel like they need to "beat" Marvel.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Not to mention comic movie universes have already being accepted pretty much by the entirety of the fandom (and actually literally are) a different universe with different rules to the comics. The fanbase is way more tolerant and tame than SW.

With SW this actually takes places in the main universe, is part of the main storyline, and is the main canon, in a numbered entry that is a part of the last trilogy that is supposed to crown and end all 3 trilogies and sets the stage for what can be expected for the final and most important film of all 3 trilogies.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

Everyone is assuming that Kylo Ren will be an incompetent final villain, but...okay, I understand that sentiment, but do you really think he's going to be the same kind of beast in the next movie? I don't know how they'll do it. Maybe he will just show up a lot stronger. Maybe he's killed off his inner conflict and can reach his full potential (they imply his inner conflict is why he keeps losing to Rey). Or maybe something else will usurp him. 

But as much as you guys might hate this movie, you have to realize that it was made by people competent enough in their craft to know that the heroes must overcome a threat who is- or at least seems- greater than them. So just wait until the 3rd movie comes out before you start shrieking like banshees over this. You can bitch about Kylo Ren being the final villain for this movie, I guess, but you don't even know how they're going to approach Episode 9.

Actually, interesting question, if "Episode 9" plays it safe, it would be imitating "Revenge of the Jedi". But people don't like that as much as the first two and "TLJ" already hit its high notes, so how would they even play it safe? They have nothing else to draw from.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Everyone is assuming that Kylo Ren will be an incompetent final villain, but...okay, I understand that sentiment, but do you really think he's going to be the same kind of beast in the next movie? I don't know how they'll do it. Maybe he will just show up a lot stronger. Maybe he's killed off his inner conflict and can reach his full potential (they imply his inner conflict is why he keeps losing to Rey). Or maybe something else will usurp him.
> 
> But as much as you guys might hate this movie, you have to realize that it was made by people competent enough in their craft to know that the heroes must overcome a threat who is- or at least seems- greater than them. So just wait until the 3rd movie comes out before you start shrieking like banshees over this. You can bitch about Kylo Ren being the final villain for this movie, I guess, but you don't even know how they're going to approach Episode 9.
> 
> Actually, interesting question, if "Episode 9" plays it safe, it would be imitating "Revenge of the Jedi". But people don't like that as much as the first two and "TLJ" already hit its high notes, so how would they even play it safe? They have nothing else to draw from.



It doesn't matter, Kylo Ren can show up and do feats that put everything else seen in SW to shame. It doesn't matter, because the main villain aura has already been broken, he has no aura.

First of all, will he stop looking like Space Sasuke? Because that seems like a very long shot.

Second of all, again, regardless of his Episode IX feats, it doesn't take away the fact that we already saw him defeated by Rey in the first film, that he got his ass kicked multiple times through 2 of 3 films, that we already saw him cry, that we already saw him throw temper tantrum after temper tantrum, that he entered the role of main villain being portrayed as a way weaker villain than the one he took over form. That even in Episode 8 he is potrayed as weaker than Rey, who already beat him.

Building a main villain, is more about than just throw a power boost at him, is about establishing his aura, its about making the audience excited and willing to see him as the main villain. Something the new trilogy has failed completely to do with Kylo by painting him as a joke.

This is like if they killed Voldemort in the penultimate movie when he hasn't even shown all he is capable of, and then Draco Malfoy took over as the new Dark Lord for the final film.

Maybe Draco Malfoy will magically become way stronger than Voldemort? Yeah, maybe. It doesn't fucking matters, because Malfoy would look like a complete joke and has no aura, no matter how powerful they made him for the last film.

You can't paint Kylo Ren as a complete and utter joke for 2 films and in the final film just say "Oh wait, its not that bad! Look, its already years past that and Kylo Ren is now suddenly ultra powerful and a badass! Way different from how he was portrayed for the entirety of the 2 previous films!"

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Rasendori (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Everyone is assuming that Kylo Ren will be an incompetent final villain, but...okay, I understand that sentiment, but do you really think he's going to be the same kind of beast in the next movie? I don't know how they'll do it. Maybe he will just show up a lot stronger. Maybe he's killed off his inner conflict and can reach his full potential (they imply his inner conflict is why he keeps losing to Rey). Or maybe something else will usurp him.
> 
> *But as much as you guys might hate this movie, you have to realize that it was made by people competent enough in their craft to know that the heroes must overcome a threat who is- or at least seems- greater than them.* So just wait until the 3rd movie comes out before you start shrieking like banshees over this. You can bitch about Kylo Ren being the final villain for this movie, I guess, but you don't even know how they're going to approach Episode 9.
> 
> Actually, interesting question, if "Episode 9" plays it safe, it would be imitating "Revenge of the Jedi". But people don't like that as much as the first two and "TLJ" already hit its high notes, so how would they even play it safe? They have nothing else to draw from.



Ah the old they know better so we should like it. With that logic every second movie of a trilogy would be good.

This movie was mediocre, and people *wanted* to like it.


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## Gunners (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> It doesn't matter, Kylo Ren can show up and do feats that put everything else seen in SW to shame. It doesn't matter, because the main villain aura has already been broken, he has no aura.
> 
> First of all, will he stop looking like Space Sasuke? Because that seems like a very long shot.
> 
> ...



No, it wouldn't be like that. The Harry Potter series never presented Draco with a character with elite level potential and there's little to suggest his abilities have been hindered. 

Kylo has the potential and it is clear that his potential is holding him back. 

That being said, I don't think one film is enough to organically move him in the direction he needs to move in. You kinda need a Clone Wars type of series to bridge the gap between this film and a film set several years in the future.


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## Markerz (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, this is our new Palpatine, our new galactic emperor. A joke character people look forward to see in the next film to laugh at his incompetence.
> 
> BTW, this is not a point against you personally @Markerz  or making fun of you as a poster or your post. I actually agree with your post, which is exactly why I completely despise Kylo Ren as main villain.



Don't worry man I know it's nothing personal. Still going from Vader to fucking Kylo is a massive disappointment I mean what has Kylo done other than lose to Finn and Rey, and let the resistance get away? Vader killed obi, beat luke's ass and then helped him kill palpatine while kylo's been showing off his abs to Rey.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 21, 2017)

One thing I like about Kylo is that he decided to be an emperor out of his own volition, not some loyalty to a tradition. He basically went "fuck the sith", killed his master, and became the first non-sith evil user of the force in the galaxy. I'm interested in what his motivations are going to be now.

I think the major theme of this movie was "look, tradition is cool and all, but let's look at the present ok?" Hence abandoning the Skywalker line, burning books, killing Luke and everything else.

Again, this is the kind of thing that will piss off fans of the lore and please general audience.


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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 21, 2017)

Yeah....this was below average. And the ending was bad. Oh boy...like what do they now even have to work with...they killed off the two of the originals that are actually still alive. Holdo was an idiot. Had she bothered to enlighten people on her plan they could have avoided a huge chunk of a waste of time in the film.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The lack of a twist is one in of itself if you go in expecting a "special heritage" for a certain character.



No it isn't. What kind of bullshit is that? The first movie held off given a full story of her origins, like it meant something to the overall plot. That prepping audiences on reasonable expectation that it has important to future events. It's not a fucking twist to just drop a plot thread.



Catalyst75 said:


> For the character, it does have consequence.  The first movie had Rey's greatest concern be her parents, and whether they were coming back for her or not; that continued in the second movie, where her descent into the "mirror cave" was about her trying to find out who she was and who her parents.  The mirror cave showed only Rey, and then the discussion between her and Kylo Ren in the throne room spelled it out - Rey has no special heritage.



Which could have been handled in the first movie, once again. Like I stated, you're just wasting viewer's time dragging it out. It becomes out of sync with the first film.


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## Markerz (Dec 21, 2017)

Superman said:


> Yeah....this was below average. And the ending was bad. Oh boy...like what do they now even have to work with...they killed off the two of the originals that are actually still alive. Holdo was an idiot. Had she bothered to enlighten people on her plan they could have avoided a huge chunk of a waste of time in the film.



I think the only thing they can do is do a time skip. The resistance has like what a dozen people left? Besides Rey's gonna have to start her new Order of Mary/Gary Stu jedi's in order to take on the first order.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> It doesn't matter, Kylo Ren can show up and do feats that put everything else seen in SW to shame. It doesn't matter, because the main villain aura has already been broken, he has no aura.
> 
> First of all, will he stop looking like Space Sasuke? Because that seems like a very long shot.
> 
> ...



First off...you keep saying Space Sasuke? It's been a long time since I watched Naruto, but I don't see a trace of Sasuke in Kylo Ren? Is this kind of like the 'Holdo is an SJW" thing? 

Otherwise, I do see where you're coming from, it just comes down to how they want to play it. Maybe Kylo Ren isn't the primary threat as much as the entire Empire is. Like I said, I don't know, but you don't even know that Kylo Ren is going to be the main villain of this trilogy. The whole point of Kylo Ren seems to be they wanted to make a better written version of Anakin of the prequels. The whiny, sexually frustrated little shit grew up to be Vader, the villain you're lauding. Now yeah, this a flawed point, as Vader was written before Anakin, but each movie/trilogy has redefined the character of Vader based on the individual movie. He's more villainous in "Empire Strikes Back", but suddenly has a good side in "Return of the Jedi". Did you hate the development of his softer side too? For what it's worth, on this point, I'm not really fighting you as much as I'm just discussing it with you. I don't think you're wrong that Kylo is a weak overarching villain, but I also think the new trilogy was never going to come close to creating a villain as iconic as Vader. Kylo is just like Rey, except he's on a journey to a different path. In the original trilogy, we didn't even realize Vader was on a journey until the 3rd movie. Up until then, he was just an obstacle for Luke's journey. 



Rasendori said:


> Ah the old they know better so we should like it. With that logic every second movie of a trilogy would be good.
> 
> This movie was mediocre, and people *wanted* to like it.



Why would every second movie a trilogy be good? "The Empire Strikes Back" wasn't very well liked upon release, but now is regarded as the best of the trilogy. "The Last Jedi" is getting a lot of the same flack as that did, so maybe will be held in the same high regard in the future. Of course, I could certainly be wrong. The prequels weren't hated when they came out, but now few people admit to liking them. And your own opinion is interesting because you're one of the few people here who have called it 'mediocre'. Most seem to love it or hate it. My point is directed towards a lot of detractors, who don't seem to realize that their complaints echo the same ones directed at "Empire", but obviously none of us know what people will think about the movie 20 years from now.


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 21, 2017)

Turrin said:


> Seems to me that most of the complaints about this movie, have to do with the fact that TLJ hasn't answered questions set up in TFA, and people are projecting their own answers onto Episode IX to these questions, while at the same time arguing they are only evaluating TLJ itself.
> 
> Example: Snoke was killed off by Kylo. People are then projecting that in Episode IX that Snoke will just be some nobody (not explained) and Kylo of TLJ will be FV. Many people don't like this idea and are penalizing TLJ for it, despite the fact that this scenario hasn't come to pass and there are many other scenarios that could play out: Snoke could actually have his own secret master, which will explain Snoke origins and present a new FV. Kylo could change drastically with a time-skip happening between TLJ and IX making him a much more compelling villain. Etc..
> 
> ...



9 will definitely be a setup to explain Snoke’s origins and I believe Snoke’s origins and who Rey really is is kind of intertwined and will he explained , also there is no way Snoke is dead he’s probably using the same power Yoda is using to interact with the physical world but only at a greater level because he’s probably been one with the force much longer seeing as how Yoda has only been dead about 20 yrs and t says once one dies they become much stronger in the force what Kylo cut down is probably just a clone or something Snoke was using to project himself , now what I can see is Snoke’s origin being a set up for Rian Johnson’s next trilogy


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I think a lot of them are so angry that they aren't thinking straight and hearing things like "Holdo is an SJW" makes me want to renounce "Star Wars" in general. This fanbase is toxic.


People celebrated the death of the entire EU, I would not be friggin upset if Stargate would have comics takign place  1000 years before the series and it was canon. it was always toxic.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> First off...you keep saying Space Sasuke? It's been a long time since I watched Naruto, but I don't see a trace of Sasuke in Kylo Ren? Is this kind of like the 'Holdo is an SJW" thing?


you can safely assume people who say this stuff have brain problems and move on


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Eliyua23 said:


> 9 will definitely be a setup to explain Snoke’s origins and I believe Snoke’s origins and who Rey really is is kind of intertwined and will he explained , also there is no way Snoke is dead he’s probably using the same power Yoda is using to interact with the physical world but only at a greater level because he’s probably been one with the force much longer seeing as how Yoda has only been dead about 20 yrs and t says once one dies they become much stronger in the force what Kylo cut down is probably just a clone or something Snoke was using to project himself , now what I can see is Snoke’s origin being a set up for Rian Johnson’s next trilogy



Force Ghost indeed seem to have gained a huge power boost in the sequel and they might actually be the most powerful beings in SW, making the "if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" thing a literal thing rather than a philosophical thing.

However, the problem is, that this is a Jedi only thing, its not a dark side thing, so it is very unlikely for Snoke.


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## Imagine (Dec 21, 2017)

Eliyua23 said:


> 9 will definitely be a setup to explain Snoke’s origins and I believe Snoke’s origins and who Rey really is is kind of intertwined and will he explained


Deja vu is this the TFA thread?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 21, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> you can safely assume people who say this stuff have brain problems and move on


Smuggness is clearly the soluion when people are so sick of your smugg shit thnat they ran to Trump. Just declare them subhuman...


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

I think I know a way we can resolve this. 

Detractors, fans, you should all watch the "Carnosaur" trilogy, as I think it echoes a lot of...things...But I think everybody would like it. A lot. Sexually. This is the only way to unite the fandom.


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## Imagine (Dec 21, 2017)

> The Carnosaur film series is a series of five B-movies


Hard pass


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Why would every second movie a trilogy be good? "The Empire Strikes Back" wasn't very well liked upon release, but now is regarded as the best of the trilogy. "The Last Jedi" is getting a lot of the same flack as that did, so maybe will be held in the same high regard in the future.



Honestly that's a tired argument people always make when a movie is getting a lot of flak, and it's not a real one either. It 'could' be revered down the road or it could not is a pointless statement.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Honestly that's a tired argument people always make when a movie is getting a lot of flak, and it's not a real one either. It 'could' be revered down the road or it could not is a pointless statement.



Yeah, I suppose you're right there. 


Imagine said:


> Hard pass



Excuse me, mister, but there are only 3 "Carnosaur" movies...the other 2 aren't part of the canon, as they only stole footage from the trilogy. The first "Carnosaur" is an allegory for women's rights. The 2nd "Carnosaur" is a social commentary on the impact man has on the Earth and the third "Carnosaur" explores the emotional and physical consequences of terrorism...and they all have dinosaurs. They are truly masterpieces that are arguably even superior to the "Star Wars" trilogy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Glued (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah, I suppose you're right there.
> 
> 
> Excuse me, mister, but there are only 3 "Carnosaur" movies...the other 2 aren't part of the canon, as they only stole footage from the trilogy. The first "Carnosaur" is an allegory for women's rights. The 2nd "Carnosaur" is a social commentary on the impact man has on the Earth and the third "Carnosaur" explores the emotional and physical consequences of terrorism...and they all have dinosaurs. They are truly masterpieces that are arguably even superior to the "Star Wars" trilogy.



Sometimes, I wonder if Jurassic Park was a mistake. It was so good, it basically destroyed the entire dino film genre.

No one could make anything as good as Spielberg, so why bother?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Sometimes, I wonder if Jurassic Park was a mistake. It was so good, it basically destroyed the entire dino film genre.
> 
> No one could make anything as good as Spielberg, so why bother?



Because as amazing as "Jurassic Park" was, it was PG-13....The Carnosaur Trilogy is not only Rated R, but it's HARD R...and was made before shitty CGI dominated the genre.


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 21, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Deja vu is this the TFA thread?



I’ll say a the same thing until the credits roll after episode 9


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Force Ghost indeed seem to have gained a huge power boost in the sequel and they might actually be the most powerful beings in SW, making the "if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" thing a literal thing rather than a philosophical thing.
> 
> However, the problem is, that this is a Jedi only thing, its not a dark side thing, so it is very unlikely for Snoke.



Some  learned , which in some cases allowed them to physically interact with their environment

So yes my take is because Snoke has probably been a force ghost longer than Yoda he is 10 times more powerful and is more capable to interact in the physiCal world


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## Glued (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Because as amazing as "Jurassic Park" was, it was PG-13....The Carnosaur Trilogy is not only Rated R, but it's HARD R...and was made before shitty CGI dominated the genre.



As much as I would enjoy humoring you about that B Rate movie. Rey Harryhausen and his claymation were amazing and went far beyond Carnosaurus. Carnoasurus was a disgrace to both claymation and puppetry.

I miss classic claymation and puppetry of the original Star Wars.

The Rancor was a real beast from the old days.

Jabba and his Rat pet also had so much life, as did the classic muppet Yoda.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> As much as I would enjoy humoring you about that B Rate movie. Rey Harryhausen and his claymation were amazing and went far beyond Carnosaurus. Carnoasurus was a disgrace to both claymation and puppetry.
> 
> I miss classic claymation and puppetry of the original Star Wars.
> 
> ...



Ray Harryhausen was indeed amazing, but did any of his movies have a raptor biting Clint Howard's head off? I think not. 



Eliyua23 said:


> Some  learned , which in some cases allowed them to physically interact with their environment
> 
> So yes my take is because Snoke has probably been a force ghost longer than Yoda he is 10 times more powerful and is more capable to interact in the physiCal world



I really hope they don't do that and honestly...I almost expect them to bring back Palpatine before Snoke. I thought Snoke was interesting within the context of this story and I don't mind Kylo Ren ascending into the antagonist throne as he is a developing villain, but Snoke still went out like a little bitch...He can't come back from that and if he returned as a force ghost, his enemies and allies alike would be snickering behind his back.


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## Fang (Dec 21, 2017)

I imagine he's pulling some kind of bullshit intentional baiting act to defend Ren not being constantly called out for his faggotry


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## MartialHorror (Dec 21, 2017)

The best final villain for Ep 9 would be Jar Jar Binks.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> The best final villain for Ep 9 would be Jar Jar Binks.



Better than Kylo, thats for sure.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 21, 2017)

TLJ completely sapped my interest in the story going forward. Something that even the prequels failed to do.


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## Glued (Dec 21, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Better than Kylo, thats for sure.





MartialHorror said:


> The best final villain for Ep 9 would be Jar Jar Binks.



Darth Jar Jar maybe more fact than fiction


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## dr_shadow (Dec 21, 2017)

In A New Hope, a lot of Luke's character is based on George Lucas' experience growing up in middle-of-nowhere Modesto, California.

If that's the case, do you think Luke's character in The Last Jedi is an allegory for Lucas' failure with the prequels and subsequent withdrawal from Hollywood?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 21, 2017)

Ben Grimm said:


> Darth Jar Jar maybe more fact than fiction



I know about the theory. I was a huge fan of it when I first heard it and a part of me, thinks it really was Lucas's intention for the prequels either as a major darksider Palpatine would had taken over from, or Palpatine's master who would not had been dealt with in the prequels which would had ended Episode III making us wonder what happened with him as he wasnt dealt with in neither of the 2 trilogies, setting the stage for the sequels, but Lucas chickened out.

It would had fit for TFA, but now it would look stupid.

Still, I would absolutely take Jar Jar as Snoke-Plagueis if it means Kylo is not the final villain.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Better than Kylo, thats for sure.



If Anakin Skywalker, the prototype Space Sasuke, could retroactively become Darth Vader, there is some hope for Kylo Ren growing into the role of final villain (assuming something in Episode IX doesn't spin things around).


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

mr_shadow said:


> If that's the case, do you think Luke's character in The Last Jedi is an allegory for Lucas' failure with the prequels and subsequent withdrawal from Hollywood?



I feel like its a stronger connection to Disney and their current mishandling of Star Wars in general

"You ever hear of the tragedy of George Lucas the creator?"
"No."
"I thought not. It's not a story Disney would tell you. Its a Lucas Films legend. George Lucas was so powerful and so wise he could use his powers to create a film franchise that would come to life. He had such a knowledge of his creation, he could even keep it from dying."
"He could actually save films from death?"
"The powers of George Lucas are a pathway to abilities some consider to be unnatural."
"What happened to him?"
"He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of, was losing his franchise. Which...eventually of course he did. Unfortunately he taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then she betrayed hm in his sleep. Ironic, he could save others from death, but not himself."


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> I feel like its a stronger connection to Disney and their current mishandling of Star Wars in general
> 
> "You ever hear of the tragedy of George Lucas the creator?"
> "No."
> ...



Not Bad Fang.....


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Markerz said:


> I think the only thing they can do is do a time skip. The resistance has like what a dozen people left? Besides Rey's gonna have to start her new Order of Mary/Gary Stu jedi's in order to take on the first order.



Shouldn't be hard after all no one needs training anymore.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Shouldn't be hard after all no one needs training anymore.



Luke's problem in the Original Trilogy was "belief".  He lacked that and it initially limited him, as seen when he could not lift his X-Wing out of the bog in "Empire Strikes Back".    

What Rey lacked was "understanding", both of the Force's nature and of herself.


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Luke's problem in the Original Trilogy was "belief".  He lacked that and it initially limited him, as seen when he could not lift his X-Wing out of the bog in "Empire Strikes Back".
> 
> What Rey lacked was "understanding", both of the Force's nature and of herself.



I think you are missing the point...my point is shouldn't be hard for Rey to get some Force Users because no training is required anymore....just look at Broom Boi.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I think you are missing the point...my point is shouldn't be hard for Rey to get some Force Users because no training is required anymore....just look at Broom Boi.



Kyp Durron was rather new to the Force as well, yet I've read he was able to _overwhelm_ Luke (with assistance from Exar Kun) during the _Dark Apprentice,_ after he extracted the Sun Crusher from Yavin.

So if I may ask, _didn't similar things happen in Legends?_


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Kyp Durron was rather new to the Force as well, yet I've read he was able to _overwhelm_ Luke (with assistance from *Exar Kun*) during the _Dark Apprentice,_ after he extracted the Sun Crusher from Yavin.
> 
> So if I may ask, _didn't similar things happen in Legends?_



Well I cant really defend all of the EU nor should I have to.

But in this case I am sorry was Exar Kun some novice Force User? I seem to remember Exar Kun as a legendary Dark Lord of the Sith. Who had way more then a week of training or in the case of Broom Boi Zero.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 22, 2017)

Mark Hamil is really slating Rian and Disney over The Last Jedi.


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Mark Hamil is really slating Rian and Disney over The Last Jedi.



Did he say something new? Or do you just mean in general.

Still I am kinda just waiting to see the weekend Box Office at this point...money is all that really matters for this type of blockbuster movie.


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## Aeternus (Dec 22, 2017)

I believe it has made less than TFA so far, right?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> I believe it has made less than TFA so far, right?


it was always gonna make less than TFA no matter what

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lucaniel (Dec 22, 2017)

Weiss said:


> it was always gonna make less than TFA no matter what


yep

you can't beat "first star wars movie in 10 years" for novelty value


Atlas said:


> Hate the prequels all you want, at least they gave us some cool shit.


they were terrible movies which were inferior in every way to any of the new ones


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

>anything coming close to the Sequels level of awful
>TLJ makes TPM look like a masterpiece
>TLJ barely edging out R1 in revenue by the smallest of margins
>better than the Prequels when you have trash like TFA (hollowed expy of ANH rehashed), Rogue One (oh shit a filler story where nothing is relevant) or this

My ass

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> TLJ barely edging out R1 in revenue by the smallest of margins




*if* that happens tho then I will know for sure that SW fandom is the worst in the world


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Rogue One was good btw

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Weiss said:


> *if* that happens tho then I will know for sure that SW fandom is the worst in the world



Keep lying to yourself ponyboy


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)

is @Weiss really a brony or is that just a running joke? i hope it's a joke.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> is @Weiss really a brony or is that just a running joke? i hope it's a joke.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)

Weiss said:


>


but are you tho?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

idk, am I ?

MLP is a gr8 show tho


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)



Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 22, 2017)

Still haven't seen that one.



Weiss said:


> it was always gonna make less than TFA no matter what


Well yeah, I don't think anyoneis arguing that. Just curious if it is going to hit 1.5 billion or not.


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## Pilaf (Dec 22, 2017)

I'm not gonna give my full thoughts on this movie and what I think of it yet, but I will address one common complaint I find stupid. 

The idea that 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Rey isn't some famous Jedi's kid actually works well narratively, because most Jedi and Sith recruits were literal nobodies that were discovered out in the galaxy, like Broom Kid at the end of this one. Her being a Kenobi, a Skywalker or a Palpatine would not have made the story any better. It's something casuals expected because casuals don't understand the will of the Force. It's better this way. One point for Rian.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Still haven't seen that one.
> 
> 
> Well yeah, I don't think anyoneis arguing that. Just curious if it is going to hit 1.5 billion or not.



They'll be lucky to hit a billion.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

On Rey's parents, Rian Johnson said that he thought Kylo Ren was telling the truth, but that the filmmakers behind Episode 9 could easily have their own ideas on the subject and could reveal it as a lie. My question is...how would Kylo Ren know this? Snoke did that force bond, but can the force be used to scan a person's past? They never clarify. It's also possible that Ben and Rey do have some sort of a past connection, which is why he knows.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> On Rey's parents, Rian Johnson said that he thought Kylo Ren was telling the truth, but that the filmmakers behind Episode 9 could easily have their own ideas on the subject and could reveal it as a lie. My question is...how would Kylo Ren know this? Snoke did that force bond, but can the force be used to scan a person's past? They never clarify. It's also possible that Ben and Rey do have some sort of a past connection, which is why he knows.


He felt it through her emotions I'm guessing. Their connection seems to be a spiritual one where they have a certain level of understanding of one another.  

That's how I took it anyway. I highly doubt her parents will end up being nobodies tho.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> I'm not gonna give my full thoughts on this movie and what I think of it yet, but I will address one common complaint I find stupid.
> 
> The idea that
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



What the fuck are you talking about?

Jedis and Siths are trained for years, like decades, in the case of Sith they are specially picked with high potential, put through brutal and at times deadly training and taught specialized knowledge and forbidden techniques designed to make you overpowered as shit.

Everyone expected Rey to be a Skywalker/Palpatine/Forceborn/etc. because it was teased as a big deal and because her power makes no sense.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Yes I too loved the whole "fuck your mystery box, sub-plots, branching out new story lines, and new mysteries and intrigues JJ" from Rian, it added tremendously to the franchise to have her strength be summed up in one throwaway line from a Palpatine knock off "she's strong becuz your strong dude".


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

they made Rey the 'strongest' Jedi with no training whatsoever because of politics


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> *Everyone expected* Rey to be a Skywalker/Palpatine/Forceborn/etc. because it was teased as a big deal


no





Orochibuto said:


> her power makes no sense.


she just has high potential like Caulifla in DBS 

and if she was truly OP she would have beaten or at least equalled Snoke .. instead he destroyed her casually

her "PL" is fine

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Literal shilling at this point


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## Pilaf (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?




Being born with Force Sensitivity. Obviously. I know your reading comprehension is better than that. It doesn't explain why she's so powerful or adept, but it explains her Force Sensitivity. You never needed to be anyone special to have that. 

Now lower your voice or stay in your lane.


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## Doc Mindstorm (Dec 22, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Did he say something new? Or do you just mean in general.


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## Aeternus (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> They'll be lucky to hit a billion.


I think hitting a billion will happen. It will just be nowhere near TFA's box office.

And I don't mind Rey not being connected to any of the important SW bloodlines. It is just that it was teased in such a way that it made seem like it was going to be a big deal in future movies.


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> I think hitting a billion will happen. It will just be nowhere near TFA's box office.





If this trend continues, it won't even live up to Rogue One's numbers. I guarantee you Disney executives and their shareholders especially are not happy about this. Heads will roll.



> And I don't mind Rey not being connected to any of the important SW bloodlines. It is just that it was teased in such a way that it made seem like it was going to be a big deal in future movies.



Which is fine technically but her justification for being strong is literally retarded. "Dark side made you strong because you are a Skywalker, and this literal who is strong because the light side chose her" is a nonsense narrative.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Aeternus (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> If this trend continues, it won't even live up to Rogue One's numbers. I guarantee you Disney executives and their shareholders especially are not happy about this. Heads will roll.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is fine technically but her justification for being strong is literally retarded. "Dark side made you strong because you are a Skywalker, and this literal who is strong because the light side chose her" is a nonsense narrative.


lol I remember reading back then that Disney wasn't happy that AoU didn't manage to outgross the first Avengers movies despite the fact that it made well over a billion. Let's face it, 1.5 billion is not something easy to outgross.

I don't disagree with you on this one.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> If this trend continues, it won't even live up to Rogue One's numbers


0/10 maths

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Weiss said:


> she just has high potential like Caulifla in DBS



So a Mary Sue, makes sense.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> So a Mary Sue, mskes sense.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Pilaf said:


> Being born with Force Sensitivity. Obviously. I know your reading comprehension is better than that. It doesn't explain why she's so powerful or adept, but it explains her Force Sensitivity. You never needed to be anyone special to have that.
> 
> Now lower your voice or stay in your lane.



Being born with FS doesnt explain why she is so powerful her progression put Skywalkers to shame, which is the problem.


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Weiss said:


> 0/10 maths



Are you merely pretending to be dumb?



Eternal Dreamer said:


> lol I remember reading back then that Disney wasn't happy that AoU didn't manage to outgross the first Avengers movies despite the fact that it made well over a billion. Let's face it, 1.5 billion is not something easy to outgross.
> 
> I don't disagree with you on this one.



Yeah exactly. But remember this is also going to trickle down on the Han Solo movie which is supposed to premier in like less than a year. Whendon was fired for A2, shits about to get lit up at DIsney.


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## Aeternus (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Yeah exactly. But remember this is also going to trickle down on the Han Solo movie which is supposed to premier in like less than a year. Whendon was fired for A2, shits about to get lit up at DIsney.


Had forgotten about that movie tbh. And I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one. Don't think that will do that good really.
You think this is going to affect RJ's new trilogy?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 22, 2017)

Day 4 drop was pretty brutal

Damaged Comics lvls actually

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Had forgotten about that movie tbh. And I am pretty sure I wasn't the only one. Don't think that will do that good really.
> You think this is going to affect RJ's new trilogy?



I do have a feeling it will. Like I've said before, there is zero doubt in my mind this film will still be a massive commercial success but it certainly imperils Rian's position and Kathleen Kennedy's considering both have backtracked from advertisement and marketing as well as promotion on what JJ and the rest of Lucas Arts wanted. Add in the very jaded demand of holding TLJ  two weeks longer than normal and taking 68% of total revenue from theater owners, I have a strong feeling backlash on related Star Wars works will be felt.

Remember a certain writer/director was fired by Disney for refusing to want to put in Ant-Man's scene in CA II because he thought it was pointless since the MCU was already established as being interconnected. I can't even imagine the shit show with the Han Solo  movie at this point. And the SW equivalent to this is Rian claiming he was in the dark about the stuff with TFA, they are going to have huge long term ramifications on IX and spin-off Star Wars movies.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)

ehh, y'all are overreacting. i highly highly highly doubt this won't outgross rogue one.

would be hilarious tho


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

I hope JJ doesnt respect Johnson's vision.

Johnson didnt respected JJ's, so neither should he.

If Johnson cancelled everything TFA opened, then so should JJ.


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> So a Mary Sue, makes sense.



Problem is I think Caulifa trained more then Rey...she certainly trained more then Broom Boi.

The Low Box Office relatively should mean RJ doesn't get his Trilogy unless KK wants to die on that hill....Han Solo should be a major blow....buying Fox means Disney also has an excuse for some reshuffling


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Problem is I think Caulifa trained more then Rey...she certainly trained more then Broom Boi.
> 
> The Low Box Office relatively should mean RJ doesn't get his Trilogy unless KK wants to die on that hill....Han Solo should be a major blow....buying Fox means Disney also has an excuse for some reshuffling



You are completely correct, I apologize and @Weiss should also apologize for comparing Rey with Caulifla, such a disrespect.

Caulifla is a mountain of training, hard work amd consistency compared to Rey.


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## Ennoea (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Are you merely pretending to be dumb?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah exactly. But remember this is also going to trickle down on the Han Solo movie which is supposed to premier in like less than a year. Whendon was fired for A2, shits about to get lit up at DIsney.


Whedon wasnt fired. He quit because it was too much and he wasn't able to make what he wanted. That's why Disney now go for smaller directors who they can control.


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

@Orochibuto We have the receipts Fam, I don't want to see anyone from the Dragon Ball Section who bitched about Caulifa and Kale defend Rey and Broom Boi.

Besides Kale and Caulifa still got served by Jiren and Goku. And Goku was weakened like Kylo was against Rey the first time. Goku though still took care of business like a G unlike Darth Emo.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> I hope JJ doesnt respect Johnson's vision.
> 
> Johnson didnt respected JJ's, so neither should he.
> 
> If Johnson cancelled everything TFA opened, then so should JJ.



In other words, you just want JJ to ignore Johnson out of spite, despite the _*only thing *_I can think of that wasn't given absolute follow through was _*fan presumptions* _about Rey's Force potential meaning she's someone's Force baby.  Despite the fact that doing so would just get criticism because "it recycles "Empire Strikes Back" and is soooo unoriginal" .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Whedon wasnt fired. He quit because it was too much and he wasn't able to make what he wanted. That's why Disney now go for smaller directors who they can control.



Considering his interview with Slasher, its pretty obvious he got axed. He even repeatedly talks about micro-managing from his executive bosses in A2 but its debacle in gross doesn't help him either. Anyway:



Rian's situation is looking even worse currently.


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Considering his interview with Slasher, its pretty obvious he got axed. He even repeatedly talks about micro-managing from his executive bosses in A2 but its debacle in gross doesn't help him either. Anyway:
> 
> 
> 
> Rian's situation is looking even worse currently.



: ahhahahahaha worse holds then the PT. Victory will soon be upon us first RJ not getting a trilogy and then hopefully Han Solo will finish KK off or at least cripple her. At this rate Disney could be begging George to come back.

Iger "Lucas, You Are Only Hope".

Though I guess I should hold off premature celebration.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

They will never go back to George Lucas. They don't want George Lucas. You don't want George Lucas. They'd simply hire someone else to handle the franchise. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised JJ Abrams hasn't been put in that position. 

As for Rian's trilogy, even if TLJ underperforms compared to the others, they might still go with it because the production of TLJ was apparently stress free. Compared to "Rogue One" and the Han Solo movie, where the directors were pretty much fired at certain points in the film, they might feel comfortable with him enough to turn in a marketable product on time and without issue. Then again, they might slash the budgets somewhat. Or they might just keep him on a creative leash. It depends on what this new trilogy is supposed to be,. 

The Whedon comparison is flawed because Whedon clashed with Marvel. I haven't heard any behind-the-scenes drama with Johnson. I actually think it's strange that Disney apparently let Johnson take risks, as they are the safest company ever (and will probably ensure that no creative risks ever take place again, because they don't like controversy). It's possible J.J Abrams had a role in the production as well and vouched for his ideas.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 22, 2017)




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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

I like this one better.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> They will never go back to George Lucas. They don't want George Lucas. You don't want George Lucas. They'd simply hire someone else to handle the franchise. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised JJ Abrams hasn't been put in that position.


Kyle Newman. Maker of Fanboys fan of the Exapnded Universe!!!


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

can we just have a decent movie without prejudice and judgement from politically insane and sensitive people? 

they made Rey just to appease all the feminists and made her the most powerful Jedi without any explanations

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 22, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> can we just have a decent movie without prejudice and judgement from politically insane and sensitive people?
> 
> they made Rey just to appease all the feminists and made her the most powerful Jedi without any explanations



You're exaggerating your ass off. She hasn't yet been shown to be on Luke's or Kylo's level. She barely held her own in that throne room scene!


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## Skaddix (Dec 22, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> can we just have a decent movie without prejudice and judgement from politically insane and sensitive people?
> 
> they made Rey just to appease all the feminists and made her the most powerful Jedi without any explanations



It boggles my mind I guess they wanted to push Reylo

but just follow the JJ setup she is Luke's daughter that Kylo mindwiped and dumped on a backwater when he slaughtered Luke's Jedi Temple. Simple explains all her hax abilities from flying to mechanics to languages to Force.

Instead no she is a random and powerful cause the Force wants it apparently? If the Force is so powerful and can do whatever why does it not just maintain balance itself by striking down any Sith or Jedi who fucks the balance.


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## Xhominid (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Ouch! This was savage as fuck.



It really is but it's not unwarranted at all because of how I looked the synposis of the movie, it's downright AWFUL and completely ruins not only the Sequel Trilogy, but utterly destroys the other 2 trilogies in the process.

It somehow makes everything in the Original Trilogy pointless.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 22, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> ehh, y'all are overreacting. i highly highly highly doubt this won't outgross rogue one.
> 
> would be hilarious tho



The brand is too strong, 1 bill should be fairly easy

But it will take a backlash compared to TFA, Mickey-sama not gunna liek dat


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> It really is but it's not unwarranted at all because of how I looked the synposis of the movie, it's downright AWFUL and completely ruins not only the Sequel Trilogy, but utterly destroys the other 2 trilogies in the process.
> 
> It somehow makes everything in the Original Trilogy pointless.



It hit too close home. That video and seeing how it really affected the rest of the saga so exposed hurt.


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

>barely grossing more than JL and the new Bladerunner with its fucking merchandise and the latter two are already confirmed box office flops
>adjusted for inflation its not even going to break past Episode I much less Episode III
>"R-rian's okay guys"


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## Xhominid (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> >barely grossing more than JL and the new Bladerunner with its fucking merchandise and the latter two are already confirmed box office flops
> >adjusted for inflation its not even going to break past Episode I much less Episode III
> >"R-rian's okay guys"



What makes this sadder is that I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I'm somehow(and I know this will get me death threats)...more of a fan of the Prequel Trilogy then the Original Trilogy(Not that I think OT is bad and I did watch most of the OT before PT so don't use that on me) and I still know they fucked up horrifically with this movie trilogy more than anyone can say the Prequels did.

You have newbies pulling off moves even Masters have never been shown or even be capable of in the movies to pull off and I remember a Padawan having better feats against the Clones than Masters in RoTS. You have freaking CHILDREN being more ridiculously potent in the force than Anakin, Leia or Luke despite Anakin LITERALLY BEING CREATED BY THE FORCE(That or given a massive push for it) and as a child, the only benefit he had from it before actually getting trained was enhanced reflexes with an extremely tiny amount of precog for pod racing vs. a random kid being able to Force Pull a broom to his hand.
Hell, you have Leia somehow surviving the vacuum of space with the Force despite her not being trained at all or stated she was trained, let alone being capable of pulling that off...

Hell, if Snoke is the absolute pinnacle of the Dark Side and thus is basically nearing a God, then how the hell was Kylo Ren able to kill him!? The Force gives you insane levels of precognition and we've seen this quite a few times in all the movies and what makes it worse is that Snoke even read Ren's mind, how did he miss that he was aiming to kill him!?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> You're exaggerating your ass off. She hasn't yet been shown to be on Luke's or Kylo's level. She barely held her own in that throne room scene!



she lasted that long and didn't die, that alone was an ass pull.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

some dumbass ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) DUPE ACCOUNT negged me for my political views

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> The Whedon comparison is flawed because Whedon clashed with Marvel. I haven't heard any behind-the-scenes drama with Johnson. I actually think it's strange that Disney apparently let Johnson take risks, as they are the safest company ever (and will probably ensure that no creative risks ever take place again, because they don't like controversy).



Eh most likely Disney micro managed him too. I bet most of the decisions were chosen by Disney and now Rian has become a scapegoat by the fans. I wouldn' be surprised Disney wanted to move away from Skywalker saga as I doubt Hamil was easy to work with.


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Salty

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Dec 22, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> What makes this sadder is that I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I'm somehow(and I know this will get me death threats)...more of a fan of the Prequel Trilogy then the Original Trilogy(Not that I think OT is bad and I did watch most of the OT before PT so don't use that on me) and I still know they fucked up horrifically with this movie trilogy more than anyone can say the Prequels did.
> 
> You have newbies pulling off moves even Masters have never been shown or even be capable of in the movies to pull off and I remember a Padawan having better feats against the Clones than Masters in RoTS. You have freaking CHILDREN being more ridiculously potent in the force than Anakin, Leia or Luke despite Anakin LITERALLY BEING CREATED BY THE FORCE(That or given a massive push for it) and as a child, the only benefit he had from it before actually getting trained was enhanced reflexes with an extremely tiny amount of precog for pod racing vs. a random kid being able to Force Pull a broom to his hand.
> Hell, you have Leia somehow surviving the vacuum of space with the Force despite her not being trained at all or stated she was trained, let alone being capable of pulling that off...
> ...



I actually liked the Phantom Menace, sure Anakin was ridiculous, but Liam Neesan was the main protagonist and he carried that movie.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Salty



Rians payroll is far-reaching

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ennoea (Dec 22, 2017)

TPM was well made but damn that plot went nowhere and Anakin was an annoying prick. The scene where he blows up that Federation ship is laughable.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Salty



that's the same dupe who negged me


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## Fang (Dec 22, 2017)

Definitely a sock puppet.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 22, 2017)

Fang said:


> Definitely a sock puppet.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I like this one better.



"Let me start off by saying I don't consider myself to be a fan of star wars and the only reason I reluctantly saw this film is because I know a lot of you guys are interested in hearing my opinion on it"

It kinda looks a lot like all these critics and current "videogame journalists" that don't give a shit about the hobby and just look into it because they have to or because people consider their opinion important.

"I don't really give a shit about Star Wars"

The fact that this is the kind of people that give postivie reviews to TLJ is telling.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> In other words, you just want JJ to ignore Johnson out of spite, despite the _*only thing *_I can think of that wasn't given absolute follow through was _*fan presumptions* _about Rey's Force potential meaning she's someone's Force baby.  Despite the fact that doing so would just get criticism because "it recycles "Empire Strikes Back" and is soooo unoriginal" .



Yeah no. I want JJ to ignore Johnson because he left us with an utterly terrible main villain that can't be taken seriously and because he discarded plot points that JJ himself painted as a big deal.

And its not fan presumptions, but reasonable expectations, because JJ actually teased on about Rey's parents and made it a big deal, supprelentary Star Wars material for these 2 years expanded on Snoke too and implied connections and answers. The actor of Snoke painted him as the ultimate darkside user.

Its not as if Rey's parents were never made out to be a big deal and fans just assumed so, it isn't like Snoke was portrayed as completely irrelevant. JJ and suplementary material made a big deal about it, Johnson himself made a big deal about Rey's parents in the movies.

And you act like if it is either a recycle or the shitfest we saw. Stop acting like fans just didn't wanted new things it is not, it is simply how these things came about. Wanting new things doesn't mean Snoke being discarded with no questions answered at all, it doesn't mean giving us a complete utter joke of a main villain. It doesn't mean treating Luke like it was, it doesn't mean answering Rey's parentage as "lol not important."


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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> "Let me start off by saying I don't consider myself to be a fan of star wars and the only reason I reluctantly saw this film is because I know a lot of you guys are interested in hearing my opinion on it"
> 
> It kinda looks a lot like all these critics and current "videogame journalists" that don't give a shit about the hobby and just look into it because they have to or because people consider their opinion important.
> 
> ...



He didn't give it a positive review. He gave it a middling review. 

And I gave a positive review for TLJ and I consider myself a fan, so don't fall back on that either. I do think he brings up a good point about the problem with this entire fanbase though. 

What do you think they should've done with Rey's parents? Because her being the daughter of Luke, Leia or Obi Wan would've been too predictable. The reveal would've had no power. This is another problem with "TFA" though, as the "Luke, I am your Father" reveal has become too iconic and to even tease at a revival for that kind of drama was probably a mistake. That's why I liked what TLJ did there, because it wasn't predictable.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> He didn't give it a positive review. He gave it a middling review.
> 
> And I gave a positive review for TLJ and I consider myself a fan, so don't fall back on that either. I do think he brings up a good point about the problem with this entire fanbase though.
> 
> What do you think they should've done with Rey's parents? Because her being the daughter of Luke, Leia or Obi Wan would've been too predictable. The reveal would've had no power. This is another problem with "TFA" though, as the "Luke, I am your Father" reveal has become too iconic and to even tease at a revival for that kind of drama was probably a mistake. That's why I liked what TLJ did there, because it wasn't predictable.



They didn't even had to give her a strong parentage, just a consistent explanation for her being so strong.

Anything but "lol not relevant" would had done it. She could had been a force experiment, a force born like Anakin, Anakin's reincarnation, etc.

It was teased by JJ a lot, there is nothing wrong with her being a nobody, there is some dignity in it and I get the message it delivers "you don't have to be born into greatness to be great" but if they wanted to do that, then don't fucking imply her origins are super important and/or that she is the daughter of someone important.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)

lmao i mean anakin's reincarnation would've been hilariously stupid 

the main problem is the way they went about it. it was utterly pointless and it was one of the many things that made it obvious how disconnected this was from TFA and that there were very clearly different people behind these movies.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 22, 2017)

inb4 """""""PLOT TWIST!"""""""


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> It was teased by JJ a lot, there is nothing wrong with her being a nobody, there is some dignity in it and I get the message it delivers "you don't have to be born into greatness to be great" but if they wanted to do that, then don't fucking imply her origins are super important and/or that she is the daughter of someone important.



As I recall, the films themselves did not imply that her origins were super-important.  _All of that was fan-based assumptions _because of her Force potential, and the reaction to Anakin's Lightsaber.  

Maz spelt it out early on: Rey's parents were never coming back,_ The Last Jedi explained why, _and Maz's words echoed Kylo Ren's: Rey already knew the truth.  If Rey was related to anyone among the main cast, why bother having Maz say "they're never coming back"?

Maz even echoes what was the theme of _The Last Jedi:_ "the belonging you seek is not behind you, but ahead".


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> lmao i mean anakin's reincarnation would've been hilariously stupid



Yes, but it would had certaintly been better than "lol, who cares?" and being super strong, for no reason at all.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> As I recall, the films themselves did not imply that her origins were super-important.  _All of that was fan-based assumptions _because of her Force potential, and the reaction to Anakin's Lightsaber.
> 
> Maz spelt it out early on: Rey's parents were never coming back,_ The Last Jedi explained why, _and Maz's words echoed Kylo Ren's: Rey already knew the truth.  If Rey was related to anyone among the main cast, why bother having Maz say "they're never coming back"?
> 
> Maz even echoes what was the theme of _The Last Jedi:_ "the belonging you seek is not behind you, but ahead".



BS, Rey's origins were teased a lot. Yeah they didn't flatout said "her parents are important" but you have to be playing dumb if you are going to pretend the implication wasn't there and that there was not very clear hints here origins were important.


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> What do you think they should've done with Rey's parents? Because her being the daughter of Luke, Leia or Obi Wan would've been too predictable. The reveal would've had no power. This is another problem with "TFA" though, as the "Luke, I am your Father" reveal has become too iconic and to even tease at a revival for that kind of drama was probably a mistake. That's why I liked what TLJ did there, because it wasn't predictable.


Anything then the option they chose. Rey didn't have to have Skywalker blood or be related to Obi-Wan. Just having some form of relation to miscellaneous Jedi would have been enough. Without any explanation, this movie and TFA further solidify that Rey is just a Mary Sue that can be amazing at anything if the plot demands it. TLJ could have destroyed this notion entirely but chose not to.

Training with Luke isn't going to be a good excuse either due to the short amount of the training and the overall quality of it.

Kylo at the very least has the Chosen One motif going for him and he trained with Luke for a much, much longer time. He was also apprenticed by Snoke.

Kylo's accolades makes Rey look that much more ridiculous when looking back at their fights in TFA and TLJ.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Anything then the option they chose. Rey didn't have to have Skywalker blood or be related to Obi-Wan. Just having some form of relation to miscellaneous Jedi would have been enough. Without any explanation, this movie and TFA further solidify that Rey is just a Mary Sue that can be amazing at anything if the plot demands it. TLJ could have destroyed this notion entirely but chose not to.
> 
> Training with Luke isn't going to be a good excuse either due to the short amount of the training and the overall quality of it.
> 
> ...



And yet she still defeated the chosen one-like guy with years training under Luke and Snoke


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2017)

Kylo has one weakness tied down to his emotions. He needed to be shot with a Bowcaster and then become frustrated for Rey to not get immediately slaughtered.

Which then raises the question of how goddamn powerful are Bowcasters and why isn't everyone using them


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Kylo has one weakness tied down to his emotions. He needed to be shot with a Bowcaster and then become frustrated for Rey to not get immediately slaughtered.
> 
> Which then raises the question of how goddamn powerful are Bowcasters and why isn't everyone using them



Bowcasters are Wookiee trademarked, and people _always _forget that not only was Ren's soul split down the middle by killing Han, but he also had that gaping hole in his side, one so bad that a Stormtrooper (Finn) could land a blow on him.


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Bowcasters are Wookiee trademarked, and people _always _forget that not only was *Ren's soul split down the middle* by killing Han, but he also had that gaping hole in his side, one so bad that a Stormtrooper (Finn) could land a blow on him.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Imagine said:


>



Watched the movie a second time, today.  Snoke's own words.


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2017)

Aka some flowery bullshit.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Aka some flowery bullshit.



Or something supported by the novelization.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 22, 2017)

Saw the movie opening day at like 9 AM with my roommate and a bunch of other people. Loved it, I think I liked it better than TFA because it ended up being less predictable. The only thing that I can say that I didn't really enjoy much was Rose, she felt like a character that they just didn't need to have in there. I would have been just fine seeing Finn and BB8 go and meet the Collector and bring him back to the ships. 

A lot of the complaints seem to be from people who consider themselves true fans. I went with a lifelong fan of the series, my brothers were life long fans (in their late forties) and I have been really into the movies since I was a little kid. I don't know what all of the salt is over. These new movies are easily better than anything the Prequels offered up and probably better than Return also. Rogue One is the most flawed to me, but it's also the most outside of the box of the movies. 

TLJ to me felt like an exercise in dashing fan theories and "prophecy" bullshit that people come up with. I am so tired of people watching a 2 minute trailer to do a 45 minute breakdown on what's going to happen in a movie and then getting mad when they're wrong. Jenny Nicholson is the ONLY person I have seen review the film who had a ton of predictions who was delighted when she was wrong. And hell she was still right about some things. 

One more thing they do need is more Poe. Poe is like my favorite character at this point.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Imagine (Dec 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Or something supported by the novelization.


Flowery bullshit is flowery bullshit. Nonmovie media doesn't equate to higher quality naturally.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> They didn't even had to give her a strong parentage, just a consistent explanation for her being so strong.
> 
> Anything but "lol not relevant" would had done it. She could had been a force experiment, a force born like Anakin, Anakin's reincarnation, etc.
> 
> It was teased by JJ a lot, there is nothing wrong with her being a nobody, there is some dignity in it and I get the message it delivers "you don't have to be born into greatness to be great" but if they wanted to do that, then don't fucking imply her origins are super important and/or that she is the daughter of someone important.



Did you take issue with the little kid at the end displaying some force powers when he summoned the broom? He had even less training than Rey- who at least had some history of combat based on TFA- but was doing something that Luke was struggling to do after training with Obi-Wan. It's simply possible that every generation is more powerful than the last, or that the force is evolving in some way. Until the story is over, you probably should withhold judgement on Rey. Kylo refers to her parents as junkies, but you have to assume they had some force potential to produce Rey. Maybe they were Jedi. Kylo's bias against the Jedi would make them 'nobodies' to him? 

I actually hope they don't go that route. I prefer the anti-chosen one message, but as I said, Rey's story is not finished yet. 



Imagine said:


> Anything then the option they chose. Rey didn't have to have Skywalker blood or be related to Obi-Wan. Just having some form of relation to miscellaneous Jedi would have been enough. Without any explanation, this movie and TFA further solidify that Rey is just a Mary Sue that can be amazing at anything if the plot demands it. TLJ could have destroyed this notion entirely but chose not to.
> 
> Training with Luke isn't going to be a good excuse either due to the short amount of the training and the overall quality of it.
> 
> ...



For what it's worth, it wasn't like Luke had a lot of time to train under Yoga or Obi Wan before he was able to defeat Darth Vader- who was the actual chosen one. Don't get me wrong, I see your point. You're right, but this is a sin carried from the past. Why don't people bitch about Luke? Probably because we experienced the original trilogy as kids and it had a profound impact on us long before we became amateur critics.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 22, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Flowery bullshit is flowery bullshit. Nonmovie media doesn't equate to higher quality naturally.



Imagine, nonmovie media is what Fang and Kaaant depend on for their high-end Star Wars feats in the OBD.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 22, 2017)

I wonder what Episode 9 would be like if Colin Treverou (sp?) wasn't fired for "The Book of Henry". Would it be safer in his hands? Or J.J Abrams? I didn't like "Jurassic World", which relied even more on nostalgia than "TFA", so I'd probably go with Abrams- even though I'd rather they get in an entirely different filmmaker.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 22, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Did you take issue with the little kid at the end displaying some force powers when he summoned the broom? He had even less training than Rey- who at least had some history of combat based on TFA- but was doing something that Luke was struggling to do after training with Obi-Wan. It's simply possible that every generation is more powerful than the last, or that the force is evolving in some way. Until the story is over, you probably should withhold judgement on Rey. Kylo refers to her parents as junkies, but you have to assume they had some force potential to produce Rey. Maybe they were Jedi. Kylo's bias against the Jedi would make them 'nobodies' to him?



The Broom crap is so terrible it doesnt even warrant acknowledging.



MartialHorror said:


> I actually hope they don't go that route. I prefer the anti-chosen one message, but as I said, Rey's story is not finished yet.



>Anti Chosen One message
>Rey is Mary Sue apparently because the metaphysical Force itself chose her



MartialHorror said:


> For what it's worth, it wasn't like Luke had a lot of time to train under Yoga or Obi Wan before he was able to defeat Darth Vader- who was the actual chosen one. Don't get me wrong, I see your point. You're right, but this is a sin carried from the past. Why don't people bitch about Luke? Probably because we experienced the original trilogy as kids and it had a profound impact on us long before we became amateur critics.



Luke has the same potential as human Anakin. Vader was a shell of his former self who lost the chosen one potential.

Vader also was holding back against Luke.

Luke had to tap into the Dark Side.

This is also an era where we had no idea what was required to be strong in The Force.

Yoda implied in the OT that The Force was a metaphysical field that force sensitives could tap into infinitely with their only limitation being their mind and set of beliefs. Luke was dangerous not because he was a chosen one, but because he was a Jedi, a Force sensitive, one among the few that could access the mighty Force.

You want an anti-chosen one message? Thats what the OT originally was.

In fact one of the reasons some people hated the prequels, and the midichlorians in particular, was because it introduced the concept of power levels and limitations in The Force.

Now its different, now we know it took the freaking Chosen One with unhindered potential more than a decade to get strong, multiple real time war battle experiences and facing darksiders all around. And even then, even in Episode III where they COULD had wanked the shit out of him and it would had been ok, even then, George still made him to be way weaker than Yoda and Palpatine.

Simply put, you cant compare the rules when the universe was being fleshed out, to the finale when they have already been established.

But now apparently according to Rey's actress the girl with less than a week of training is stronger than Episode III Anakin


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## Rukia (Dec 22, 2017)

This movie is old news.  No one actually gives af about it anymore.  Only the diehards.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 23, 2017)

Not that old lol


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## U mad bro (Dec 23, 2017)

Movie was ass. That is my review. I don't even care enough to list the points of why it's ass. Too many and time-consuming.


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## Yasha (Dec 23, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> Movie was ass. That is my review. I don't even care enough to list the points of why it's ass. Too many and time-consuming.



You mean it is full of shits, stinks and has a gaping hole? I am having difficulty understanding young people's posts these days because of the slangs they use.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> >Anti Chosen One message
> >Rey is Mary Sue apparently because the metaphysical Force itself chose her


I am in favor of ending the Chosen One message or Chosen One prophecies but this movie sounds clumsy. There is a better way to do it, just don’t do it. It is that simple. But of course they had to set up Rey in the first place...


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 23, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> TLJ to me felt like an exercise in dashing fan theories and "prophecy" bullshit that people come up with. I am so tired of people watching a 2 minute trailer to do a 45 minute breakdown on what's going to happen in a movie and then getting mad when they're wrong. Jenny Nicholson is the ONLY person I have seen review the film who had a ton of predictions who was delighted when she was wrong. And hell she was still right about some things.



People want to speculate and generate discussion on a series they are interested WELL I'LL SHOW THEM


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## Imagine (Dec 23, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> For what it's worth, it wasn't like Luke had a lot of time to train under Yoga or Obi Wan before he was able to defeat Darth Vader- who was the actual chosen one. Don't get me wrong, I see your point. You're right, but this is a sin carried from the past. Why don't people bitch about Luke? Probably because we experienced the original trilogy as kids and it had a profound impact on us long before we became amateur critics.


The quality of Luke's training was more impactful to his character. Rey had to find Luke and convince him to train her, BUT Luke wasn't interested in doing so. At most her, with her training, she walked away with better insight.

Her training could have been better if some of the other things in the movie were just omitted like Finn's mission. They'd be much for screentime for it then.

I rewatched the OT before TFA came out in 2015 and am more grateful for them now than I was when I was a kid tbh.


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## The World (Dec 23, 2017)

Her training was a stupid montage of her swinging her sword by herself without Luke's guidance

CUZ A POWERFUL INDEPENDENT WOMAN DON'T NEED NO MAN'S HELP!

*puke*

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 23, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I am so tired of people watching a 2 minute trailer to do a 45 minute breakdown on what's going to happen in a movie and then getting mad when they're wrong.



Completely agree with this. I cringe when I see those reviews of teaser trailers.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> The Broom crap is so terrible it doesnt even warrant acknowledging.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MIDICHLORIANS ARE NOT POWER LEVELS

Why the fuck don't people still get how they work and what they really are?

And Daisy was full of shit she even admitted to not seeing the all the moves and it was a joke answer


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## Rukia (Dec 23, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Completely agree with this. I cringe when I see those reviews of teaser trailers.


I’m not familiar with these.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> TLJ to me felt like an exercise in dashing fan theories and "prophecy" bullshit that people come up with. I am so tired of people watching a 2 minute trailer to do a 45 minute breakdown on what's going to happen in a movie and then getting mad when they're wrong. Jenny Nicholson is the ONLY person I have seen review the film who had a ton of predictions who was delighted when she was wrong. And hell she was still right about some things



No, people are not pissed because their theories are wrong (though I admit a lot would be), they are because questions were unanswered or answered in the worst way possible.

Example of a theory being wrong: Snoke its not Darth Plagueis, but random new character with so and so background.

What we got: Its not important, hes dead. Who cares?

People were ready to have their theories wrong. There is a difference between wrong and unanswered.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2017)

>Flashback of Rey parents and her being dramatically question on it.

>eh it's not important

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Imagine, nonmovie media is what Fang and Kaaant depend on for their high-end Star Wars feats in the OBD.



Project harder kiddo.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

>77% drop for its first follow up Friday

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

wow...that's more brutal than even _I_ thought


the only re-watch value the movie has though is to sort out the confusion it leaves with you after 1st viewing. After that, zilch.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Reminder

Joss got fired for AoU only doing 100 million less than its predecessor
This is on the road to doing 500-700 million less than TFA, maybe not even breaking Rogue One's numbers because we know its going to tank in China

Rian's going to movie jail with Disney


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## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2017)

Its now down to fucking 53% in RT


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## Mider T (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> Reminder
> 
> Joss got fired for AoU only doing 100 million less than its predecessor
> This is on the road to doing 500-700 million less than TFA, maybe not even breaking Rogue One's numbers because we know its going to tank in China
> ...


That's not exactly right 


Furthermore, Whedon hasn't been kicked off the Batgirl project after the Justice League flop.


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## Ennoea (Dec 23, 2017)

Finally watched it lol. Damn the film was one tone. It was just one set piece to another. Barely anytime to really bridge the film together. The quite moments were where the film was good. But the whole Resistance crap was tedious. I'm so bored of the Rebels at this point. They've  got some underdog complex. They should be stronger at this point. Utterly useless.

Luke's treatment was strange. I feel like the film was a set up for him to leave his hermit life but then they killed him off??? I feel like Disney fucked up big time there.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Mider T said:


> That's not exactly right
> 
> 
> Furthermore, Whedon hasn't been kicked off the Batgirl project after the Justice League flop.



>Whendon wasn't fired
>immediately loses job after AoU's numbers after Disney executives see the box office numbers
>now only WB will handle him

Yeah keep telling yourself that

"Exits" is funny way of diplomatically saying "fired"


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

This also probably also doesn't help when 80% of the main demographic are men for your franchise


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## Ennoea (Dec 23, 2017)

Whedon didn't get fired. He brought Marvel together and made them alot of money. If you somehow think no studio will touch him then you're dumb.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2017)

George Lucus left at the right time. 

The brand is so watered down now...


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Whedon didn't get fired. He brought Marvel together and made them alot of money. If you somehow think no studio will touch him then you're dumb.



No one at Disney or Marvel is touching him after AoU. If you think he decided to simply "leave" then you are playing mental gymnastics here. There was a massive shake up at Disney with their Marvel film branch and production staff with AoU, honestly thinking Whendon wasn't fired is hilarious.

"I-totally left on my own volition, no one shit canned me at Disney."


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## Pirao (Dec 23, 2017)

Dunno which one is worse, episode I or this one, sooo bad.


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## Ennoea (Dec 23, 2017)

Whedon left so why would Disney go to him again??


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## U mad bro (Dec 23, 2017)

Yasha said:


> *You mean it is full of shits, stinks and has a gaping hole?* I am having difficulty understanding young people's posts these days because of the slangs they use.


Yes you clearly understand. So why you say you don't understand? You are confusing me with your jedi mindtricks.



Ennoea said:


> Whedon left so why would Disney go to him again??


They wouldn't want him again. The Russo brothers are way better than him. Look at winter soldier and civil war in comparison to the rest of the mcu. You will clearly see the quality difference.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> This also probably also doesn't help when 80% of the main demographic are men for your franchise



God, I didnt knew it was so bad. I thought this SJW shit was from individual movie directors, not all the way up to Lucasfilm CEO.

This shit is never going to get fixed then, unless Kathleen gets removed, which is not happening. Even then the entire thing might already be infested with these types.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 23, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> No, people are not pissed because their theories are wrong (though I admit a lot would be), they are because questions were unanswered or answered in the worst way possible.
> 
> Example of a theory being wrong: Snoke its not Darth Plagueis, but random new character with so and so background.
> 
> ...


The only thing they didn’t answer was the Knights of Ren stuff. Everything else was answered. You just didn’t like the answer. Not everything has to be conspiracy and hidden identity. Snoak isnt anyone but Snaok. Rey isn’t related to anyone. Ren isn’t being redeemed and Rey isn’t going dark. Yoda is a puppet again. 

That’s how it works. And all the people whining about training. Rey swings a saber around. She’s obviously already somewhat trained. Luke has zero formal training other than what he got in the ride to save Leia. After that he lifts some rocks and...time skip. 

People love looking at these movies through rose colored glasses. They aren’t perfrct.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 23, 2017)

The World said:


> Her training was a stupid montage of her swinging her sword by herself without Luke's guidance



Last time I checked, Yoda or Obi-Wan taught Luke nothing about how to wield a Lightsaber, save that one lesson Obi-Wan gave Luke about being able to block laser bolts.  As for actual lightsaber combat, _*zip.  *_Luke was self-taught on that front, for the most part.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 23, 2017)

BTW I just realized Kylo Ren is Space Joffrey.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Palm Siberia said:


> BTW I just realized Kylo Ren is Space Joffrey.


Jerec, Darth Krayt, Kadann, Roan Fel, Antares Draco, *Tsavong Lah, Thrawn, Cronal cannot believe this goofy looking mofo replaced them as the big bad. *

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Indra (Dec 23, 2017)

Glad it's flopping.

They thought they could tell a tale with Leia and Han's son being a villain like Anakin, but one that sucks major donkey. While having a new female lead who can't fail at anything.

At the same destroying the old trilogy characters


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## Skaddix (Dec 23, 2017)

Fucks The Old Leads
Shits On Most Of The New Ones
Massively Retcons The Force
Has Major Plot Holes

But hey it looks nice....

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> >77% drop for its first follow up Friday



This is domestic right? So no chance it comes close to TFA which made like a billion.


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## Rukia (Dec 23, 2017)

Star Wars is finished.  Lucas was actually protecting the franchise with his inactivity.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> This is domestic right? So no chance it comes close to TFA which made like a billion.



Yeah its not getting close to TFA. Its arguable it might not even surpass Rogue One if this trend keeps up. Word of mouth is killing returns to the box office on TLJ just like the theater bullshit Disney is hanging on cinema owners.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 23, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Star Wars is finished.  Lucas was actually protecting the franchise with his inactivity.


If the prequels didn’t kill it it’ll be fine.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 23, 2017)

Indra said:


> Glad it's flopping.
> 
> They thought they could tell a tale with Leia and Han's son being a villain like Anakin, but one that sucks major donkey. While having a new female lead who can't fail at anything.
> 
> At the same destroying the old trilogy characters


 Rey literally fails multiple times in this movie.


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 23, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Fucks The Old Leads
> Shits On Most Of The New Ones
> Massively Retcons The Force
> Has Major Plot Holes
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> Yeah its not getting close to TFA. Its arguable it might not even surpass Rogue One if this trend keeps up. Word of mouth is killing returns to the box office on TLJ just like the theater bullshit Disney is hanging on cinema owners.


pfft, this is just more Alt-Right propaganda created by SWars man-babies who hate women

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Rukia (Dec 23, 2017)

Legends of Tomorrow > Star Wars


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Rukia said:


> Star Wars is finished.  Lucas was actually protecting the franchise with his inactivity.


Thank goodness he was inactive. I want my sleepy eyed do nothing George back.


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## Kurak (Dec 23, 2017)

For me SW was always more about KOTORs, few games (Jedi Outcast and Academy) plus some EU content then movies.I mean movies were always stupid, cheesy and full of bad plot holes. With Disney movies its even worse.  


Give me one example of writing in any SW move at least half good as it was in KOTOR 2. Kreia alone is character above all characters from SW movies together.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

so i'm kylo ren and i'm assuming the guy i shouldn't be worried about is some sort of tech billionaire w/ mad game?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 23, 2017)

Yo, when I heard of the shirtless scene I really thought it was a fake spoiler. Did they really make Adam workout just for that one scene?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Yo, when I heard of the shirtless scene I really thought it was a fake spoiler. Did they really make Adam workout just for that one scene?


I thought it was 'cuz of this:

Matt says Kylo is shredded, that he has an 8-pack!

Reactions: Like 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I think that is all RJ watched when writing TLJ. Probably thought it was official material.


kinda sad that that skit is _better_ than TLJ

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2017)

Imagine if Lucas hadn't sold and he and Dave worked together on the ST.

It would have been TCW tiers of awesome.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

>force abortion

lol

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> >force abortion
> 
> lol



How the fuck would she not know what the appointment is about? Something doesn't add up there.


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## Indra (Dec 23, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Rey literally fails multiple times in this movie.


Does her slight fails really contribute to the overwhelming fact that she's hardly untrained when she's supposed to be?

I mean she out forced Kylo twice in the series


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 23, 2017)

Indra said:


> Does her slight fails really contribute to the overwhelming fact that she's hardly untrained when she's supposed to be?



What they mean is that Rey failed *where Luke succeeded.
*
Luke, after learning the truth about his father from his masters, went off to redeem his father in "Return of the Jedi".  By the end, he succeeded and the Emperor was dead, albeit at the cost of Vader's life.

Rey followed a similar pattern: she learned the truth about Kylo Ren falling to the Dark Side from Luke, and then went off in an attempt to redeem him because she believed there was Light left in Ren.  Like Vader before him, Kylo Ren turned on Snoke and killed him.

However, unlike Vader, Kylo Ren continued to embrace the Dark Side, meaning Rey _*failed*_ in doing what she set out to do when she left Ahch-To.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Imagine if Lucas hadn't sold and he and Dave worked together on the ST.
> 
> It would have been TCW tiers of awesome.


TCW needed a consistent tone.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

TCW was fantastic. It starts off slow, has issues in its first two seasons until mid-way in its second season then finds its feet and hits the ground running as the animation and budget kept getting increased by Lucas.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> What they mean is that Rey failed *where Luke succeeded.
> *
> Luke, after learning the truth about his father from his masters, went off to redeem his father in "Return of the Jedi".  By the end, he succeeded and the Emperor was dead, albeit at the cost of Vader's life.
> 
> ...


big difference is that the OT takes place over 6-7 years; Luke was not only training but also fighting in the Rebellion.

meanwhile, TFA and TLJ take place over a long weekend; Rey still reeks of junkyard rat ffs 
if she _had_ redeemed him it would've been too much for even the apologists to swallow.


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## Yasha (Dec 23, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> Yes you clearly understand. So why you say you don't understand? You are confusing me with your jedi mindtricks.
> 
> .



I don't know. It could mean sexy and arousing to some people?


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## Ennoea (Dec 23, 2017)

The music in the film was shit. Where's Duel of Fates at?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## U mad bro (Dec 23, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Whedon left so why would Disney go to him again??


They wouldn't want him again. The Russo brothers are way better than him. Look at winter soldier and civil war in comparison to the rest of the mcu. You will clearly see the quality difference.


Yasha said:


> I don't think, it could mean sexy, and arousing to some people?


You make no sense that can only be the description of Jyn Eyrso ass when climbed that ladder. Rei has no ass so that cannot possibly be a description for the last Jedi.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> TCW was fantastic. It starts off slow, has issues in its first two seasons until mid-way in its second season then finds its feet and hits the ground running as the animation and budget kept getting increased by Lucas.


But kept the inconsistent tone. I would have preferred a straight up anthology with different dudes and chicks as leads, but i am not greedy.


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> But kept the inconsistent tone. I would have preferred a straight up anthology with different dudes and chicks as leads, but i am not greedy.



What "inconsistent" tone is there?


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> big difference is that the OT takes place over 6-7 years; Luke was not only training but also fighting in the Rebellion.
> 
> meanwhile, TFA and TLJ take place over a long weekend; Rey still reeks of junkyard rat ffs
> if she _had_ redeemed him it would've been too much for even the apologists to swallow.



From start to finish with ANH to RotJ its about 4 years. Hell Luke and the Rebellion are on the run for 3 years between ANH and TESB after blowing up the Death Star before Vader tracks them down to Hoth. The Sequel trilogy is nonsensical. In the span of weeks or less everything has happened so far with TFA and TLJ. Fuck TLJ's entire story probably takes place in less than a day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 23, 2017)

Fang said:


> What "inconsistent" tone is there?


The last season has a Jar Jar episode for example. Nuvo Vindi, etc...


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## Fang (Dec 23, 2017)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> The last season has a Jar Jar episode for example. Nuvo Vindi, etc...



I don't see the inconsistent tone there. Season 6 was literally scrapped together from what finished episodes Filoni had and roughly edited considering the show had been extended to 10 seasons before Disney killed it. If you think Filoni wasn't going to have the occasional episode with Jar-Jar or even C-3PO's hijink adventures in it, you misunderstood the show's premise entirely.


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## TomPen94 (Dec 23, 2017)

Kylo is the man.

Also that jerk Snoke gave when Kylo pulled the lightsaber to Rey was gold. And the saber fight was the sh*t.



Indra said:


> Does her slight fails really contribute to the overwhelming fact that she's hardly untrained when she's supposed to be?
> 
> I mean she out forced Kylo twice in the series



...

What was the second time? I don't recall her outforcing him in TLJ, she only tied with him in the struggle for the lightsaber.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 23, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Finn taken from his parents forced to fight as a nameless solider for the organization that stole his life. That is compelling.
> Poe, Ex-Republic Ace whose parents served along side Leia in the Rebellion who watched the Republic Burn. That works.
> Even Rose, Parents slaughtered by the First Order and Sister Dead Fighting them. That works.
> 
> *Rey though just has nothing.* Not only is she not directly connected despite being at the center, she is not even tangentially connected.


you're wrong man; for the SocioPolitical climate right now Rey is _~Just Right~_
when you're a pretty white girl you don't need the force.

Finn otoh is a lowly African; that is a no go for the Chinese market. 
His boyfriend Poe is hispanic. (need i say more)
& Rose is Azn and worst of all ugly; that's a no go for the American market.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Yasha (Dec 23, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> you're wrong man; for the SocioPolitical climate right now Rey is _~Just Right~_
> when you're a pretty white girl you don't need the force.
> 
> Finn otoh is a lowly African; that is a no go for the Chinese market.
> ...



Ain't pretty enough though. I would rather see a busty jedi swinging the lightsaber as I watch her boobs swing from side to side. Rey has _nothing_.

Reactions: Like 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 23, 2017)

Kylo ren at his best is basically the fire prince from the last airbender.

Finn at his best is basically sokka, except his girlfriend sucks.

Rey at her best is that one girl character who mastered bending even though she’s not anyone’s reincarnation or has any lineage or training, and nobody’s a threat to her because she's the best. You know the one. There are all these great moments where she's awesome. I forget her name. It's everyone’s favorite character.


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## Skaddix (Dec 24, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> you're wrong man; for the SocioPolitical climate right now Rey is _~Just Right~_
> when you're a pretty white girl you don't need the force.
> 
> Finn otoh is a lowly African; that is a no go for the Chinese market.
> ...



Out of Universe wise sure although really China doesn't especially care about Star Wars so I somehow doubt fucking over Black Fans will be made up in the Chinese Market.


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 24, 2017)

Kylo Ren did say he was shredded.


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## U mad bro (Dec 24, 2017)

Honestly wasn't even the actors fault. The story was just so weak. I mean especially when they just made a movie like rogue one. The last Jedi seemed like 3 hours of people just running around doing useless shit. Which would be fine with an engaging villain. But the villains were wack as fuck. To this day everyone still thinks Kylo should of have never taken that mask off.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

>TLJ has now confirmed the worst box office drop of ANY Star Wars movie period be it Prequel, Original, or Sequel

Rofl

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Atlas (Dec 24, 2017)

Well deserved.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 24, 2017)

Disney should stick to MCU


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> >TLJ has now confirmed the worst box office drop of ANY Star Wars movie period be it Prequel, Original, or Sequel
> 
> Rofl



I think if a movie requires a 2nd or even a 3rd viewing so you start considering it good...then maybe it's not actually good at all and one is trying to force themselves to see it as such. AngryJoe has seen the movie three times for example and made a review on each viewing, and all the defenders of this movie say you have to see it multiple times to "get it". I think that is indication that it just isn't all that great.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think if a movie requires a 2nd or even a 3rd viewing so you start considering it good...then maybe it's not actually good at all and one is trying to force themselves to see it as such. AngryJoe has seen the movie three times for example and made a review on each viewing, and all the defenders of this movie say you have to see it multiple times to "get it". I think that is indication that it just isn't all that great.



If someone tells his viewers to watch a film multiple times while its still at the box office I feel like this is unsubtle padding to influence their audience to put more bucks into the studio's pockets. That said you'll get a kick of out of this, though I disagree with the writer of the article on some things:




> Finn teams up with Rose Tico (Kelly Marie Tran), a communist Montagnard with Down syndrome



Heh.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Atlas (Dec 24, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I think if a movie requires a 2nd or even a 3rd viewing so you start considering it good...then maybe it's not actually good at all and one is trying to force themselves to see it as such. AngryJoe has seen the movie three times for example and made a review on each viewing, and all the defenders of this movie say you have to see it multiple times to "get it". I think that is indication that it just isn't all that great.



What the hell are you supposed to "get" after multiple viewings?


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## Turrin (Dec 24, 2017)

Eliyua23 said:


> 9 will definitely be a setup to explain Snoke’s origins and I believe Snoke’s origins and who Rey really is is kind of intertwined and will he explained , also there is no way Snoke is dead he’s probably using the same power Yoda is using to interact with the physical world but only at a greater level because he’s probably been one with the force much longer seeing as how Yoda has only been dead about 20 yrs and t says once one dies they become much stronger in the force what Kylo cut down is probably just a clone or something Snoke was using to project himself , now what I can see is Snoke’s origin being a set up for Rian Johnson’s next trilogy


I don't think Snoke will be back and I don't think Snoke himself is suppose to be anyone special. I think Snoke is just someone who was buthurt at the resistance, probably because some of his scars were caused by them or Luke. In-fact I don't think the films will even go into explaining this back story, and rather leave the explanation for the novels or animated series. 

However, I do think why Snoke was so powerful, despite not being a Sith-Lord, will be important in the final film and explained. There are a couple of possibilities I've thought off for this:

1) Snoke could have been trained by another Darker entity or Order. This could help establish a major villain for IX that's not Kylo and if it's an order, could establish a future threat for the next trilogy to replace the Sith as the main antagonists.

2) Snoke could have discovered some power that enhanced his abilities with the force. In the Extender Universe and even the Canon Clone wars there are several items that have been used to do this in the past, like special Kyber Crystals or the Well Spring of Darkside energy. Establishing this as the origin of Snoke's power could enable Kylo in Snoke's absence to seek out the same power enhancing his own and becoming a much more credible threat to take on a fully realized Jedi Rey in IX. Also depending on the source of this power it could create a mystery that needs to be resolved in the future trilogy as well

3) Snoke could have been stealing force from other force sensitives, as many speculated in the lead up to TLJ. Perhaps this is what happened to the Knights of Ren, they were absorbed by Snoke. This could enable Kylo to use the same method becoming more formidable or it could be that Snoke was feeding of Kylo and w/ Snoke gone Kylo will become much more powerful 

Personally I think 2 is most likely, considering what's hinted at in the novels, with Sidious looking for the source of the Dark-side. Many people assumed that Sidious was looking for Snoke, but I think given Snoke's death in TLJ we can safely say he wasn't looking for Snoke, but probably some ancient force power, which Snoke simply managed to obtain in Sidious absence. This would be a good way to explain Snoke's rise to power and how he could become more powerful then Sidious, while keeping Sidious still intact as the most skilled Darkside force wielder. It could also explain Rey's origins, as she may be a nobody, but was perhaps exposed in some way to the same force enhancement object or substance, which made her incredibly strong with the force. Also I could see a scenario where said object or substance might enable non force sensitive individuals to become force sensitive, which if such a substance became known throughout the galaxy in the aftermath of IX, that could set up a really interesting narrative for the next trilogy where there are suddenly a shit ton of force sensitive people appearing, and the galaxy falls into chaos not because of one or two dark individuals, but because there are a ton of people now abusing force powers, which would give the new trilogy a really fresh feel to it in comparison to what we had before.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 24, 2017)

Atlas said:


> What the hell are you supposed to "get" after multiple viewings?



An aneurysm?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Kylo ren at his best is basically the fire prince from the last airbender.
> 
> Finn at his best is basically sokka, except his girlfriend sucks.
> 
> Rey at her best is that one girl character who mastered bending even though she’s not anyone’s reincarnation or has any lineage or training, and nobody’s a threat to her because she's the best. You know the one. There are all these great moments where she's awesome. I forget her name. It's everyone’s favorite character.


fuck you for comparing him to based zuko tbh

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 24, 2017)

He sounds like him too.


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 24, 2017)

Turrin said:


> I don't think Snoke will be back and I don't think Snoke himself is suppose to be anyone special. I think Snoke is just someone who was buthurt at the resistance, probably because some of his scars were caused by them or Luke. In-fact I don't think the films will even go into explaining this back story, and rather leave the explanation for the novels or animated series.
> 
> However, I do think why Snoke was so powerful, despite not being a Sith-Lord, will be important in the final film and explained. There are a couple of possibilities I've thought off for this:
> 
> ...



I think Snoke is very important for 9 specifically because he is the one that has been orchestrating this whole ordeal he has been setting Rey/Kylo on their respective paths if you think they kind of mirror each other and both Kylo/Rey paths kind of fall
in line with his goals , he wants them both to achieve a perfect balance with the force , Rey who was probably a former dark side user to establish bonds with a family , friends get trained by Luke , Kylo to break
Bonds with family and friends be trained by himself , Rey as a child was probably his first apprentice and the first of the Knights of Ren as we see she saw them in her vision , he even says he knows Kylo’s intentions before he cuts him down , Kylo isn’t even a real villain at this point , he was incapable of killing Leia and incapable of killing Rey , and Luke basically killed himself to protect the alliance so at this point he is still a lost soul still not fully irredeemable , and let’s be real we know Snoke is obsessed with a perfect balance and if Kylo achieves that Rey most certainly would have to have mastered spmw aspect of the dark side or she will get virtually have no shot at Kylo Ren in episode 9 , we know Rey has some
Experience with the dark side because in 8 she was able to overcome Kylo because she was probably more centered (balanced than him ) as she was as swung by her emotions and she gained some more light side power fighting to protect Finn , also when training with Luke We she goes straight to the darkness meaning it’s a power she has sometimes in the pas t harnessed , Snoke connected their minds meaning he has been directing both their thoughts for sometime 

We see in this film Yoda fully capable of interacting with the physical world after becoming one with the force for 20+ yrs , we see Luke being able to create a force projection but because he’s not one with the force is nearly zaps all of his energy killing him in the process but we see Snoke able to actually be in the physical world sit talk use his powers for yrs because he has been dead/one with the force for much longer , but nothing comes close to having a full alive prime human body while still becoming one with the force , my guess is Kylo Ren or Rey will be able to become completely one with the force while remaining alive by achieving a perfect balance . With Han , Leia(unfortunately in real life , Luke all dead the only person left he has some connection with is probably Rey and he will have to strike her down to become invincible, as Kylo will soon learn who Snoke really is and what he is really capable of , I also think we will see Luke in 9 as there is a possibility he also realized Snoke’s abilities are too far beyond what a normal force user is capable of while being in the physical world 

Out of those scenarios I see one which would set up the next trilogy and I think the twist will be Rey will sacrifice herself for Kylo and he will be the one to carry on seeing as how Rey in her past was the one who was capable of murdering  her parents she was the one pre TFA who was truely cold and emotionaless while Kylo still has his fathers heart incapable of killing Leia/Rey and not having the chance to kill Luke


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> I don't see the inconsistent tone there. Season 6 was literally scrapped together from what finished episodes Filoni had and roughly edited considering the show had been extended to 10 seasons before Disney killed it. If you think Filoni wasn't going to have the occasional episode with Jar-Jar or even C-3PO's hijink adventures in it, you misunderstood the show's premise entirely.


That premise being...


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## Aeternus (Dec 24, 2017)

Multiple viewings, huh? I will never understand how people can pay to watch the same movie over and over again... Then again I never rewatch stuff.


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## Indra (Dec 24, 2017)

TomPen94 said:


> What was the second time? I don't recall her outforcing him in TLJ, she only tied with him in the struggle for the lightsaber.


That was the time.

I thought that she won? Indicated by the fact that he was out cold for a few, and she was already gone.


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## Ennoea (Dec 24, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah course Rey wanting to reddem Kylo cause he has nice abs is dumb anyway. The short plot time makes it worse, one flashback where Luke thought about killing Kylo but didn't shouldn't make a difference. When yesterday Kylo was mind raping her, stabbing his old man and putting her best friend in a coma. Luke wanting to redeem Vader was compelling Rey just isn't
> 
> Which I suppose is the other problem with Rey Random besides inexplicable power. She really doesn't have any reason to be at the center of the current conflict besides being a white female brunette insert for KK. Luke had a compelling reason to be the lead as the Son of Vader...Rey Random though she is not connected to the Skywalker line at all directly, she or her parents didn't go to Luke's Academy, her parents weren't killed by Luke or Snoke, honestly her current lot in life as random junker has nothing do with the wider conflict at all.
> 
> ...



That's her main dilemma in this film. She doesn' have a place in the narrative. She knows why everyone else is fighting but herself she's lost and confused. It's why she goes to Luke and then Kylo. She's connected to them both in some inexplicable way.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> That premise being...



Premise is a set up. The set up for TCW is the actual galaxy at war during the Clone Wars, that narrative is never changed.


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## Mider T (Dec 24, 2017)

Anime Kitten said:


> _TLJ_ was amazing and that's all I'll say for now.



Dunno about amazing but I liked it.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> Premise is a set up. The set up for TCW is the actual galaxy at war during the Clone Wars, that narrative is never changed.


Minus for the jar Jar and other specials.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Kylo ren at his best is basically the fire prince from the last airbender.
> 
> Finn at his best is basically sokka, except his girlfriend sucks.
> 
> Rey at her best is that one girl character who mastered bending even though she’s not anyone’s reincarnation or has any lineage or training, and nobody’s a threat to her because she's the best. You know the one. There are all these great moments where she's awesome. I forget her name. It's everyone’s favorite character.



Nah I think she's Korra. Like she has crazy amounts of talent but is prone to giving in to her rage.

Also Luke is Tenzin all the way. He's the master who knows he's supposed to be a master but is unsure whether he is worthy of it or not, and has the hard job of reviving a whole order. Also Ghost Yoda = Ghost Aang from Korra's season 2 finale.

I noticed the Kylo = Zuko parallel. Though I didn't notice Finn = Sokka, I give you that.

Basically this trilogy has characters that parallel both the avatar shows.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

Maybe what this trilogy truly lacks is a Toph.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> fuck you for comparing him to based zuko tbh



Season 1 Zuko was about as annoying as Kylo imo.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 24, 2017)

Zuko is one of the best developed characters ever animated

we'll see where Supreme Leader Kylo Solo(?) ends up 

I _can_ appreciate the unintended consequence of having the son of the Galactic princess become the Galactic Dictator instead.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Zuko is one of the best developed characters ever animated
> 
> we'll see where Supreme Leader Kylo Solo(?) ends up
> 
> I can appreciate the unintended consequence of having the son of the Galactic princess become the Galactic Dictator instead.



Well TLJ Kylo has just had the same type of character developent as Zuko has in Avatar's S2. t's just that Zuko is done better since he gets more time to interact with people, while Kylo is limited to arguing with Rey through force skype.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Well TLJ Kylo has just had the same type of character developent as Zuko has in Avatar's S2.


How is this even close to being true?


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> How is this even close to being true?



They both keep tiptoeing around turning to the good side until in the end they say "fuck it" and go fully into the dark side.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> Well TLJ Kylo has just had the same type of character developent as Zuko has in Avatar's S2.


  

i know you're really shilling for this movie but at least be fucking real about it  

zuko and kylo are only actually similar if you over simplify and only look at the surface



Dragon D. Luffy said:


> They both keep tiptoeing around turning to the good side until in the end they say "fuck it" and go fully into the dark side.


case in point.

if you actually cared to analyse them beyond a shallow comparison you'd know how vastly different they are.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 24, 2017)

Zuko doesn't kill random old people and civilians over back talk.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 24, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> i know you're really shilling for this movie but at least be fucking real about it
> 
> zuko and kylo are only actually similar if you over simplify and only look at the surface
> 
> ...


People aren’t “shilling” for the movie simply because they have a different opinion than you.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 24, 2017)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> Minus for the jar Jar and other specials.


You must have been triggered as fuck when Grevious lost to the Gungans and when Jar Jar teamed up with Mace


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> People aren’t “shilling” for the movie simply because they have a different opinion than you.


this particular argument wasn't a matter of opinions tho. he was just plain wrong.

if you liked this movie then whatever but don't bring down better written characters for some forced false equivalence


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 24, 2017)

Either way, kylo ren is far and away the best of the three new mains. On paper, so much of him shouldn't work. He's angsty, emotional, murders characters we like from the previous trilogy and keeps getting beaten up by a girl. But they cast him well, and that makes up for a lot. Even Driver's appearance helps. Driver's got an unusual face that contrasts nicely with the role. If they had cast some robert pattinson looking guy, it wouldn't have worked as well.

Finn's still got a long way before he finds his laser space sword and a top shelf main character class girlfriend, but there's always the third movie.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

lmao finn might as well be a side character for all it matters.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

ain't no third movie gonna salvage him. we can only hope they will grant him the merciful death they denied him in here

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Its only further downhill from here on

>worst opening week of any Star Wars film
>adjusted for inflation it didn't do better than Episode I, which is hilariously bad considering Episode I wasn't aiming for Asia audiences outside of Japan and South Korea
>largest drop of any Star Wars film in its first week

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

is it really that bad? man i didn't expect this tbh 

i mean it's still definitely going to make more then rogue one but it's definitely performing below expections. i guess the general public wasn't as super in love with this movie as critics and the like led me to believe


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

i'll truly laugh if it won't outgross rogue one  

maybe there is justice in this world after all?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> is it really that bad? man i didn't expect this tbh
> 
> i mean it's still definitely going to make more then rogue one but it's definitely performing below expections. i guess the general public wasn't as super in love with this movie as critics and the like led me to believe



If you base the money they spent on production and marketing/advertising, it is very bad. We know for certain with Episode VII that Disney spent over $245 million USD for TFA's budget, for RO they spent almost $270 million ($265 million specifically), and TLJ will likely exceed RO or at least match it. Then add in at least $200 million more for advertising on top of that for each film.

This is really really bad.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

justice

Reactions: Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 24, 2017)

Has anybody revealed any details on how much control rian johnson had over the direction of this movie? If the box office keeps dropping and the studio takes note for a course correction, I wonder how the course correction play out creatively. 

Everybody's heard KK keeps directors on a leash, but johnson still wrote this movie. Did johnson have the freedom to, I don't know, kill off luke, or is that part of the larger studio blueprint and he's just figuring out how to piece it together? I can't tell if this was his fumble or the studio's. If it's his fumble and people liked TFA more, you guys should be fine since JJ is coming back to close out the trilogy. If it's the studio's fumble because they wanted this stuff to happen, that's a bigger, more holistic problem.


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

> I've only seen a drop this steep once before. It didn't scare me then...it does now



-disney

Reactions: Like 2


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## ~VK~ (Dec 24, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Has anybody revealed any details on how much control rian johnson had over the direction of this movie? If the box office keeps dropping and the studio takes note for a course correction, I wonder how the course correction play out creatively.
> 
> Everybody's heard KK keeps directors on a leash, but johnson still wrote this movie. Did johnson have the freedom to, I don't know, kill off luke, or is that part of the larger studio blueprint and he's just figuring out how to piece it together? I can't tell if this was his fumble or the studio's. If it's his fumble and people liked TFA more, you guys should be fine since JJ is coming back to close out the trilogy. If it's the studio's fumble because they wanted this stuff to happen, that's a bigger, more holistic problem.


from what i could tell he pretty much had free reign


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 24, 2017)

That would mean the oversight is tighter on the side stories (rogue one reshoots, han solo firings) than the main trilogy. Which is weird. You'd assume the main story would be more fixed and the side stories would be the looser, creatively freer one-offs.


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## Ennoea (Dec 24, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> from what i could tell he pretty much had free reign



I highly doubt anyone has ever had free reign in a movie produced by Disney.

$270 million on RO?? Wtf. Where's all the money going if TLJ cost more. Because it looked like your generic Cgi fest.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> I highly doubt anyone has ever had free reign in a movie produced by Disney.
> 
> $270 million on RO?? Wtf. Where's all the money going if TLJ cost more. Because it looked like your generic Cgi fest.


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## Ennoea (Dec 24, 2017)

BvS costing 300 million. That was a trashy looking movie. Shows throwing money on screen does nothing. Maybe invest in a good writer and the money might actually be well spent.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> BvS costing 300 million. That was a trashy looking movie. Shows throwing money on screen does nothing. Maybe invest in a good writer and the money might actually be well spent.



Justice League is an even bigger flop than BvS.


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## Ennoea (Dec 24, 2017)

I never bothered watching it but from the trailers the production quality looked like a disaster. Weta should be embarrassed.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> I never bothered watching it but from the trailers the production quality looked like a disaster. Weta should be embarrassed.




lol


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> case in point.
> 
> if you actually cared to analyse them beyond a shallow comparison you'd know how vastly different they are.



I never said it wasn't shallow 

I said the basic character plot is the same. Of course there are differences in the details, but they can be described with the same sentence. Volume 2 of both works features Zuko/Kylo attempting a character change only to back down in the last moment.

You are letting your spite towards TLJ prevent you from perceiving actual facts.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> Zuko doesn't kill random old people and civilians over back talk.



That's because Avatar is a kid's show. It didn't show certain things on screen. And I don't recall Zuko feeling any bad about sending fire nation soldiers to random cities to throw fireballs into houses while searching for the Avatar on season 1.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> Justice League is an even bigger flop than BvS.



The catch is that BvS had a lot of hype, while JL has to carry the negative hype of BvS, plus not being a great movie by itself.

Same reason why IM3 sold amazingly despite not being one of the most popular MCU films. It came right after Avengers.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 24, 2017)

reiatsuflow said:


> Either way, kylo ren is far and away the best of the three new mains. On paper, so much of him shouldn't work. He's angsty, emotional, murders characters we like from the previous trilogy and keeps getting beaten up by a girl. But they cast him well, and that makes up for a lot. Even Driver's appearance helps. Driver's got an unusual face that contrasts nicely with the role. If they had cast some robert pattinson looking guy, it wouldn't have worked as well.
> 
> Finn's still got a long way before he finds his laser space sword and a top shelf main character class girlfriend, but there's always the third movie.


Poe > Kylo.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 24, 2017)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Poe > Kylo.


I love Poe..but no


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The catch is that BvS had a lot of hype, while JL has to carry the negative hype of BvS, plus not being a great movie by itself.
> 
> Same reason why IM3 sold amazingly despite not being one of the most popular MCU films. It came right after Avengers.



Man I didn't know both Disney and Warner Brothers had someone collectively shilling for both of them.


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## Dragon D. Luffy (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> Man I didn't know both Disney and Warner Brothers had someone collectively shilling for both of them.



What are you trying to accomplish here, making me dislike a post of yours?

Put me on your ignore list if my presence here bothers you so much.


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## Fang (Dec 24, 2017)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> What are you trying to accomplish here, making me dislike a post of yours?
> 
> Put me on your ignore list if my presence here bothers you so much.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 24, 2017)

Fang said:


> lol



To be fair they didnt have much time besides CGI a human face is going to always be difficult to slip past the human eye...CGI a mustache on is far easier they should have just paid Tom Cruise to let Henry cut it.


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## TomPen94 (Dec 24, 2017)

I am interested in TCW but no way I'm patient enough to go through everything in release order.
But I am quite interested about Ahsoka and Maul, what are their best arcs?



Indra said:


> That was the time.
> 
> I thought that she won? Indicated by the fact that he was out cold for a few, and she was already gone.



Not necessarily. What ended their duel wasn't the lightsaber ripping in half, it was Ms. Purple Hair lightspeeding through the ship. It could be that whatever knockback Kylo and Rey had just hit him harder.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 25, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> You must have been triggered as fuck when Grevious lost to the Gungans and when Jar Jar teamed up with Mace


Not really because i had low expectations.


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## King Of Gamesxx (Dec 25, 2017)

Saw the movie twice because of people talking about how it's better on the second viewing.

The second viewing made it look even worse. Don't fall for the trap (RIP Ackbar).

Also Rey continues to be a Mary Sue, she even manages to out force pull Kylo again and gets both halves of the broken light saber. Not to mention apparently not getting knocked out and escaping. There is just no tension heading into 9 for me. I get that the "Rebels" are low on members, but they will undoubtedly get help and Rey is already stronger than Kylo.


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## Ennoea (Dec 25, 2017)

I'm favouring the First Order. Rebels don'the know what they'e doing. After the Empire falling they still were incapable of recreating their Republic. And none of them had any defences after them Empire blew up Alderaan. No Death Star deterrent. They deserve to get pummelled.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 25, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> I'm favouring the First Order.


love to be a genocidal fascist


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 25, 2017)

Fang said:


> Its only further downhill from here on
> 
> >worst opening week of any Star Wars film
> >adjusted for inflation it didn't do better than Episode I, which is hilariously bad considering Episode I wasn't aiming for Asia audiences outside of Japan and South Korea
> >largest drop of any Star Wars film in its first week

Reactions: Like 2


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## U mad bro (Dec 25, 2017)

My main thought about this film and Disney, in general, is why the need to rely on the cringe humor. I mean all that shit fell flat in the theatre. Everyone was quiet as a church mouse. It only enforces the idea they don't make films but formulas they regurgitate.


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## Imagine (Dec 25, 2017)

The comedy was Rian's idea IIRC. It was apart of his ''different'' vision of SW.


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## Ennoea (Dec 25, 2017)

It's marvel humour. People love that shit generally but it's out of place in Star Wars. Seemed more like a Snl skit at times.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 25, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> My main thought about this film and Disney, in general, is why the need to rely on the cringe humor. I mean all that shit fell flat in the theatre. Everyone was quiet as a church mouse. It only enforces the idea they don't make films but formulas they regurgitate.


Based on what I saw, people actually seemed to find it funny but personally I will agree with Ennoea that it doesn't really fit Star Wars.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

>lower than Rouge One's drop (60%) 
>69% now

El oh el


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 25, 2017)

plenty of laughs in my theater

it wasnt any worse than OT humour

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

>that delusion

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Reactions: Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 25, 2017)

been reading about this online 

This fiasco that RJ cobbled together during his "jazz writing sessions" with Carrie Fisher have produced nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. 
There _was_ a Deathstar in this movie; only it came in form of a script pointed at the franchise.

Not even the prequels have come close to damaging it as much.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

How dare you not like the scene in TLJ where the down's syndrome fat asian chick wants to proudly display her anarcho-socialistic beliefs against the wealthy? Also buy our toys! 

t. not Disney

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 25, 2017)

~VK~ said:


> lmao finn might as well be a side character for all it matters.



GREAT GOOGLY MOOGLY


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## Imagine (Dec 25, 2017)

Is Rose actually suppose to have downs or does the actor have downs?


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

She doesn't actually have downs syndrome


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## Imagine (Dec 25, 2017)

That is something Disney would do tbh tbf


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Dec 25, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Is Rose actually suppose to have downs or does the actor have downs?



thas racist


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## Ennoea (Dec 25, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Is Rose actually suppose to have downs or does the actor have downs?


Do you not know what downs is??


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## Imagine (Dec 25, 2017)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> thas racist





Ennoea said:


> Do you not know what downs is??


Do you have downs?


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## Jake CENA (Dec 25, 2017)

She smokes too much weed


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

Cringing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 25, 2017)

Just watched it with a friend

He was surprisingly more critical than me, as he only ranked Phantom Menace below it 

Overall pretty meh, Rose and Hux were terrible


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 25, 2017)

Fang said:


> https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women
> 
> Cringing


i've been seeing so many articles written by preteen girls lately...when the fuck did journalism fall so low?


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## Aeternus (Dec 25, 2017)

Sure, don't mention the fact that because Holdo was being so secretive about her plan, a lot of casualties could have occurred because of that mutiny hadn't Leia woken up from her coma.


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## Fang (Dec 25, 2017)

I like how they make no mention of the fact she could've moved the cruiser in front of the transport ships to at least shield them but stood around like an ineffective incompetent for several minutes before allah ackbaring (rip Ackbar sama) the Supremacy. Or the fact not informing the fucking captain whose well above the general rank-and-file troops was somehow genius insight on her part.

Brilliant film.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 25, 2017)

swap out Holdo for Leia - better film
make Holdo a 1st Order informant - better film
use the ship as a shield instead of a battering ram - better film

post-modern deconstructionist my ass
every scene is just fucking wrong


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 25, 2017)

First act was cringeworthy aswell:

> Yo mama
> Hux delaying the deployment of the tie-fighters


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## Ennoea (Dec 25, 2017)

Disney should re-release this film. Photoshop Admiral Akbar's head on Holdo and keep Luke alive at the end. Atleast there will be some hope left.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 25, 2017)

If they really wanted a token asian chick they could have at least hired a good looking one


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## Jake CENA (Dec 25, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Disney should re-release this film. Photoshop Admiral Akbar's head on Holdo and keep Luke alive at the end. Atleast there will be some hope left.



This shit was a mistake. The only way to fix this is kill Rey, Kylo and Finn and have Luke solo the entire universe.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 25, 2017)

Its down to 52%, if it keeps like this, it might go to 49


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 25, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> If they really wanted a token asian chick they could have at least hired a good looking one


swap the sisters; change all dialogue - better film


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## Mider T (Dec 26, 2017)




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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 26, 2017)

I have a question. Was Snoke a better leader then Sidious or was Leia a terrible leader?

 From Vll to the end of Vlll the Rebels have done nothing but shrink despite blowing up a superior deathstar. By the start of Vlll they were down to a single cruiser and a couple of support ships. I remember in Vl the rebels had like quite a few Cruisers and other ships at their disposal.


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## Aeternus (Dec 26, 2017)

Doubt anyone is suprised the film is doing well. People would have been more surprised if the opposite was happening. Doubt it is going to reach TFA levels though.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 26, 2017)

Lol at people using cinema polls, to dismiss the 52% lame RT to claim it proves the audience enjoyed it and its alt-right trolls.

A lot of those that disliked it, dont know it until it sinks it after seeing it. Specially because it is a movie they went into WANTING to like it and because honestly, if you came to see it with friends/family, you dont want to look like the grumpy ass saying you didnt liked it in front of them as soon as you left the cinema.


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## Mider T (Dec 26, 2017)

Superman said:


> I have a question. Was Snoke a better leader then Sidious or was Leia a terrible leader?
> 
> From Vll to the end of Vlll the Rebels have done nothing but shrink despite blowing up a superior deathstar. By the start of Vlll they were down to a single cruiser and a couple of support ships. I remember in Vl the rebels had like quite a few Cruisers and other ships at their disposal.


Maybe both?  Snoke had consolidated forces though.  Not sure how the Republic let it get to that level.  The Resistance didn't have public Republic support and was financially independent, so they were resource strained.  As well as going up against a superior force since the First Order had already grown large.


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## Aeternus (Dec 26, 2017)

I don't know. Based on the way the audience reacted from when I watched the movie, I think casual movie-goers, people without any or at least any significant SW knowledge, actually enjoyed the movie.


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## PureWIN (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm a super casual SW fan and I enjoyed the movie. It was nowhere near cinematic perfection - the entire Holdo situation was stupid from start to finish - but overall it was solid.

Luke's trolling of Kylo was incredible. Rey continues to be a Mary Sue. Snoke was wasted and I hope they make a prequel expanding on his backstory + showing Luke in his prime.


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## Darth (Dec 26, 2017)

Superman said:


> ?
> 
> From Vll to the end of Vlll the Rebels have done nothing but shrink despite blowing up a superior deathstar. By the start of Vlll they were down to a single cruiser and a couple of support ships. I remember in Vl the rebels had like quite a few


There was literally zero exposition on the state of the rebellion or how it even got to this point. Nor do we know anything at all about where Snoke or the First Order came from.

If you're looking for answers ask the writers cause none of us know.


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## Pirao (Dec 26, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> If they really wanted a token asian chick they could have at least hired a good looking one



There was one, but they killed her in the beginning


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## Aeternus (Dec 26, 2017)

Darth said:


> If you're looking for answers ask the writers cause none of us know.


One could argue that not even the writers know

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Dec 26, 2017)

Darth said:


> There was literally zero exposition on the state of the rebellion or how it even got to this point. Nor do we know anything at all about where Snoke or the First Order came from.
> 
> If you're looking for answers ask the writers cause none of us know.


The Rebellion was against the Empire, the Resistance is against the First Order.  And I believe it was all explained in a picture book or something.  I remember reading about it when TFA came out.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)

Luke Prime was him fapping using his only real hand in Ahch-to while watching flowers bloom


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## Tony Lou (Dec 26, 2017)

Finally watched it.

1. Rey wasn't as much of a Sue this time. I expected her to instantly know everything like in the last movie, but they did a good job at making her look like she needed a teacher.

2. Luke was such a savage! 

3. Rey clearly has never heard the saying "Don't jinx it". Yelling from the rooftops "BEN SOLO WILL TURN GOOD!! IT'S GONNA HAPPEN, GUYS!!!" doesn't help. You gotta let these things happen naturally.

4. He may be a generic villain that died quickly, but I still think Snoke is dope. Kylo Ren is growing on me as well, and seems like a decent villain.

5. That moment when Leia used the Force to return to the ship! 
I always thought it was wrong that the old trilogy stated she had the potential, but that never went anywhere. Or perhaps it did and I forgot.

6. How the hell did Luke die? Just because he got exhausted from controlling that Force hologram thing? 

7. If I were Rey, I wouldn't have instantly refused Kylo Ren's offer. I would have asked "Rule together? And what would you do for the galaxy as a leader? What are your political beliefs?"


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## Tony Lou (Dec 26, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> If they really wanted a token asian chick they could have at least hired a good looking one



She is cute. 



Superman said:


> I have a question. Was Snoke a better leader then Sidious or was Leia a terrible leader?



I didn't like the way they portrayed Leia, being easily manipulated by Purple Hair like that.


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## Ennoea (Dec 26, 2017)

Superman said:


> I have a question. Was Snoke a better leader then Sidious or was Leia a terrible leader?
> 
> From Vll to the end of Vlll the Rebels have done nothing but shrink despite blowing up a superior deathstar. By the start of Vlll they were down to a single cruiser and a couple of support ships. I remember in Vl the rebels had like quite a few Cruisers and other ships at their disposal.



It's pretty retarded actually. Not only have they lost all their Ships. They clearly have no support from the Galaxy. Not one person showed up. Not one single person. And now Hope is on one Jedi?? How does that make sense? I mean at the end one Millennium Falcon is all that is left.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 26, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Maybe both?  Snoke had consolidated forces though.  Not sure how the Republic let it get to that level.  The Resistance didn't have public Republic support and was financially independent, so they were resource strained.  As well as going up against a superior force since the First Order had already grown large.



I figure it's somewhat analogous to the Iraq situation.

The Empire was the Saddam regime, the New Republic the Malaki government, the First Order is the Islamic State and the Resistance is the Peshmerga.

Not saying it's an intentional allegory since these things have happened a couple of times throughout history, but I'm bringing up the most recent example because it's the most familiar to us.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 26, 2017)

What doesn't make sense is why didn't they seize the clone armies of the empire after it's fall?? Even if there were many loyal to the Enpire, no way those who suffered under the Empire would let them rise again.  And not create deterrents to the Death Star like weapons. I know they just wanted the same narrative as the original trilogy but it's a it nonsensical.


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## The World (Dec 26, 2017)

What doesn't make sense is people thinking the Empire would just crumble because one Death Star and the Emperor died.

I mean he had a Galactic spanning Empire.

It's not like the casuals know of the Emperor's contingency plan should he die anyway.


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## dr_shadow (Dec 26, 2017)

The World said:


> What doesn't make sense is people thinking the Empire would just crumble because one Death Star and the Emperor died.
> 
> I mean he had a Galactic spanning Empire.
> 
> It's not like the casuals know of the Emperor's contingency plan should he die anyway.



What usually happens when a charismatic founding emperor dies is that regional warlords carve out their own fiefs and fight each other (often unsuccessfully) for the succession.

This happened with for example the empires of Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan.

In Star Wars this seems extra likely given how in the first film we learn that the Emperor has dissolved the nationwide bureaucracy and given the regional (military) governors dictatorial control of their systems. A kind of feudalism where guys like Tarkin are "little emperors" in their domains accountable to nobody but Palpatine personally.

So the death of Palpatine would probably just have formalised that each governorship was now an independent country. Some of them might surrender to the Republic, but probably not all.


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## The World (Dec 26, 2017)

Thrawn is a part of Disney canon and he was a staunch loyalist. He would have found other loyalists and taken over after the Emperor's death.


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## Darth (Dec 26, 2017)

The extended universe did a good job detailing the imperial warlords and their conflict with the new republic post ROTJ. Sadly none of that is canon anymore but the New Republic was forced to remain militarized for quite awhile after Palpatine's death. No idea how they can get away without explaining any of that but I guess Abrams and Rian just don't give a darn.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 26, 2017)

Darth said:


> The extended universe did a good job detailing the imperial warlords and their conflict with the new republic post ROTJ. Sadly none of that is canon anymore but the New Republic was forced to remain militarized for quite awhile after Palpatine's death. No idea how they can get away without explaining any of that but I guess Abrams and Rian just don't give a darn.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 26, 2017)

We don't "think" anything. It was confirmed that peace returned to the galaxy. Only for the cycle to continue a few decades later .


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## MartialHorror (Dec 26, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Lol at people using cinema polls, to dismiss the 52% lame RT to claim it proves the audience enjoyed it and its alt-right trolls.
> 
> A lot of those that disliked it, dont know it until it sinks it after seeing it. Specially because it is a movie they went into WANTING to like it and because honestly, if you came to see it with friends/family, you dont want to look like the grumpy ass saying you didnt liked it in front of them as soon as you left the cinema.



I don't know, you throw around the SJW terms enough to make me assume that you personally probably went in wanting to hate it, because the 'SJW' complaints have been around since TFA.


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2017)

Rofl.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)

what's the whole point of Luke dying and giving the spotlight to these 3 fools, Rey, Kylo and Finn when the next trilogy won't be about any of them????????

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rukia (Dec 26, 2017)

Finn has no credibility anymore.  He’s like Jacob in Mass Effect now.  He no longer has a role in this franchise.


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## Ennoea (Dec 26, 2017)

Poe is a terrible leader. Finn can't get a basic task done. And Rey has shown no real leadership or military skill. She can move stones. Big deal. 

The first order clearly isn't bothered about a leader as Hux moved swiflty on from Snoke. So even taking out Kylo Ren wouldn't do much to defeat the First Order. I really don' see what was hopeful about the ending of the film. It would be like watching Mr Bean take on the Nazis.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Rasendori (Dec 26, 2017)

Rey even defeating those elite red soldiers is baffling. SHE'S GOT NO TRAINING!

and yeah Luke dying from force exhaust is ridonk.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aeternus (Dec 26, 2017)

Well, she managed to beat Kylo in the previous movie just by focusing, so I don't see why people are surprised she best those guards. Although she did struggle against them.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 26, 2017)

Now they didn't have to copy it exactly, but reading the "Legends" version of Skywalker, I definitely would have preferred a new trilogy centered on that. What's wrong with introducing us to a new trilogy where a new Jedi Order under Grandmaster Luke is established? He never had to be a main character, he could have easily been a supporting one himself. You could have had Rey and Finn at least being taken up, still have Rey as the prodigy of course. A lot in TFA at least could remain for the most part...Eh, oh well. Nothing can be done now, the trilogy was made to capitalize on the franchise after the buyout to begin with.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2017)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Well, she managed to beat Kylo in the previous movie just by focusing, so I don't see why people are surprised she best those guards. Although she did struggle against them.



She beat Kylo after he had been gut shot by Chewie with that fuck huge bowcaster after he killed Han, and he had already dueled Finn, on top of the fact the start of the final fight was Kylo literally casually TKing her into a tree and knocking her out for a short time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Dec 26, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Now they didn't have to copy it exactly, but reading the "Legends" version of Skywalker, I definitely would have preferred a new trilogy centered on that. What's wrong with introducing us to a new trilogy where a new Jedi Order under Grandmaster Luke is established? He never had to be a main character, he could have easily been a supporting one himself. You could have had Rey and Finn at least being taken up, still have Rey as the prodigy of course. A lot in TFA at least could remain for the most part...Eh, oh well. Nothing can be done now, the trilogy was made to capitalize on the franchise after the buyout to begin with.



There's a scene early in the comic book_ Dark Empire_ (1991) where Luke force-chokes an AT-AT, with the caption "size matters not..."

I was totally expecting they'd re-create that scene when we saw him face down the walkers this time, but nope.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Turrin (Dec 26, 2017)

Eliyua23 said:


> I think Snoke is very important for 9 specifically because he is the one that has been orchestrating this whole ordeal he has been setting Rey/Kylo on their respective paths if you think they kind of mirror each other and both Kylo/Rey paths kind of fall
> in line with his goals , he wants them both to achieve a perfect balance with the force , Rey who was probably a former dark side user to establish bonds with a family , friends get trained by Luke , Kylo to break
> 
> Bonds with family and friends be trained by himself , Rey as a child was probably his first apprentice and the first of the Knights of Ren as we see she saw them in her vision , he even says he knows Kylo’s intentions before he cuts him down , Kylo isn’t even a real villain at this point , he was incapable of killing Leia and incapable of killing Rey , and Luke basically killed himself to protect the alliance so at this point he is still a lost soul still not fully irredeemable , and let’s be real we know Snoke is obsessed with a perfect balance and if Kylo achieves that Rey most certainly would have to have mastered spmw aspect of the dark side or she will get virtually have no shot at Kylo Ren in episode 9 , we know Rey has some
> ...


I don't think Snoke had any interest in balancing the force or creating someone that is both light and dark. He was using Ren's connection to Rey just so he could locate and kill Luke, nothing more. Snoke's goal involving Ren was to turn him into the next Darth-Vader, but unlike in Vader's case eliminate all the good in him turning Ren completely to the dark-side and nonredeemable. Snoke didn't know Ren's intentions, he only sensed Ren's bloodlust, but didn't realize it was targeted at him not Rey, which is how Ren was able to trick Snoke and cut him down, not because it's part of Snoke's master plot.

Like I said I think Snoke's identity will be important in 9, but not because he's going to be an active player, but more the mystery of how Snoke became so powerful in the Dark-Side of the force despite not having a Sith master and likely not being trained by Luke. Snoke being so strong indicates there is ether another master out there besides Luke or there is another way to become strong in the force outside of being trained by a master.

So the big revelation in 9 is ether going to be that there is:

A) Another Order of Force users besides the Sith and Jedi, that trained Snoke
B) There is some other Dark-Jedi or Sith Lord that survived and trained Snoke
C) There are Sith Force Ghosts, and perhaps a Force Ghost like Sidious trained Snoke
D) There is some kind of Item or Substance that can imbue or enhance force powers tremendously

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Magic (Dec 26, 2017)

Sad thing is, this dude directed_ Brick_ which I loved... 
Looper wasn't bad either and pretty sick.

Going to see this again when I visit NY for da first time, best buddy lives there usually see SW films with him.



mr_shadow said:


> There's a scene early in the comic book_ Dark Empire_ (1991) where Luke force-chokes an AT-AT, with the caption "size matters not..."
> 
> I was totally expecting they'd re-create that scene when we saw look face down the walkers this time, but nope.


That would have been bad-ass, I was expecting him to wipe their forces.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)

WHAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM LUKE TO REY????????


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 26, 2017)

Turrin said:


> I don't think Snoke had any interest in balancing the force or creating someone that is both light and dark. He was using Ren's connection to Rey just so he could locate and kill Luke, nothing more. Snoke's goal involving Ren was to turn him into the next Darth-Vader, but unlike in Vader's case eliminate all the good in him turning Ren completely to the dark-side and nonredeemable. Snoke didn't know Ren's intentions, he only sensed Ren's bloodlust, but didn't realize it was targeted at him not Rey, which is how Ren was able to trick Snoke and cut him down, not because it's part of Snoke's master plot.
> 
> Like I said I think Snoke's identity will be important in 9, but not because he's going to be an active player, but more the mystery of how Snoke became so powerful in the Dark-Side of the force despite not having a Sith master and likely not being trained by Luke. Snoke being so strong indicates there is ether another master out there besides Luke or there is another way to become strong in the force outside of being trained by a master.
> 
> ...



His whole purpose for being interested in Ben is his ability to harness both sides of the force , he wants a new Vader but one that is more centered and balanced with his emotions one that can easily sever bonds and not get wrapped up in emotions which is what Snoke was faulting Ben for doing , he created that bond with Rey and Ren and he knows full well that Ben is of a kind nature , killing his father wrecked him , he couldn’t kill Leia , and he sensed Kylo’s intentions his own words this was a way for him to do down the path of darkness 

At this part of the game Snoke almost still has to be a major player , he has been built up over two movies and we still need to know what his overall
Goal is besides killing Luke , to bring in an entire new villain in a 2:30
Hour movie develop said villain and cram it into the climax of the story will be damn near impossible instead I think Snoke story finishes in 9 and it opens it up for the new overarching villain for 10, 11, 12 so we see Snoke is a big deal but what he did and who is will open things up for a brand new story to be explored as we kind of get that with this ending with the little boy with the broom stick 

I do think there will be Sith force ghost and we will see Kylo trying to become one with the force


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 26, 2017)

400 mill domestic is pretty good relatively speaking compared to all other movie franchises

But if it keeps dropping at the current rate, its gonna be a struggle to pass a spin-off in its own universe which would be an disappointment for The Mouse


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 26, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> WHAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM LUKE TO REY????????


I do not like her.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 26, 2017)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> But if it keeps dropping at the current rate, its gonna be a struggle to pass a spin-off in its own universe which would be an disappointment for The Mouse

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> I do not like her.



~snip~


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## Ennoea (Dec 26, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> ~snip~


He doesn't have a dick.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)




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## Imagine (Dec 26, 2017)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> 400 mill domestic is pretty good relatively speaking compared to all other movie franchises
> 
> But if it keeps dropping at the current rate, its gonna be a struggle to pass a spin-off in its own universe which would be an disappointment for The Mouse


Yeah, 400mil it wouldn't be a problem if Disney didn't bank 4bil on the IP. They still have quite a bit to make up.

Plus they just bought Fox.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 26, 2017)

Everything sounds better in a Britainnian accent

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 26, 2017)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> 400 mill domestic is pretty good relatively speaking compared to all other movie franchises
> 
> But if it keeps dropping at the current rate, its gonna be a struggle to pass a spin-off in its own universe which would be an disappointment for The Mouse



Good in a vacuum sure good compared to TFA domestic of about 1 billion not so much. Especially when the Force is weak in China ie they didn't get the OT. Combine that with some soft percents from various Minority Communities and well...


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## Mider T (Dec 26, 2017)

Its shouldn't have been a surprise that this didn't make as much TFA.  That was the first new Star Wars material in years, that level of excitement won't be reached again.


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## Skaddix (Dec 26, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Its shouldn't have been a surprise that this didn't make as much TFA.  That was the first new Star Wars material in years, that level of excitement won't be reached again.



Sure that is one factor. Hardly the only factor.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 26, 2017)

Finn mops the floors in the exact same section as the weakness to Starkiller base
Finn mops the floor of the exact same room as the hyperspace tracker on the Supremacy


what kind of hack writer comes up with this shit?

every. single. scene. is. broken.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2017)

The level of excitment won't be reached because their watering down and diluting hype by releasing constant films every year. I can not wait for how much a debacle the Han Solo I mean SOYLO movie will be given its already so bad it appears Ron Howard might be thinking of walking out of it too.


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## Skaddix (Dec 26, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Finn mops the floors in the exact same section as the weakness to Starkiller base
> Finn mops the floor of the exact same room as the hyperspace tracker on the Supremacy
> 
> 
> ...



Yes why is Finn in these high security locations on both Starkiller and the Supremacy...I mean RJ didn't give a darn about Finn so he just did what we all did to rip off an essay...cut and paste and then change some names and some words for no plagiarism.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 26, 2017)

this is what happens when you add politics into a classic masterpiece like Star Wars

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Dec 26, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> this is what happens when you add politics into a classic masterpiece like Star Wars



There was political bullshit in the original trilogy, but when you're a kid you don't pick up on the pacifist film director making his fantasy critique of american imperialism. Imagine being an adult for the OT and having to listen to the hippies talking about the vietnam war comparisons and how the empire is the industrial war machine and self styling their misconstrued eastern philosophy bullshit as the force. Our childhood innocence saved us from the political statements.


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## Ennoea (Dec 26, 2017)

The fact that Disney want to make one Star Wars film a year is ridiculous and a disgrace anyway. By the end the franchise will be the level of a shitty annual horror franchise like Saw. 

Star Wars was political to begin with....not like it's a new thing.


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2017)

>OT
>any theme about "American imperialism"

lol

How did you come to that conclusion given the Empire was modeled off different aspects of 19th century Prussia, Nazi Germany, the USSR/Soviet Union, fascism in general and about autocracy?


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 26, 2017)

Rian comes off as that stereotypical, pretentious, twat of a writer, tbh. Someone who thinks he and his writing are deeper than they actually are.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 26, 2017)

I hate to break this to you guys, but most major movies are political in some way. People are only more uppity about it now because the the targeted politics tend to be their own.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 26, 2017)

forcing current American social politics into this movies is the _least_ of its problems when...

EVERY_SCENE_IS_BROKEN and _incredibly_ stupid.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 26, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I hate to break this to you guys, but most major movies are political in some way. People are only more uppity about it now because the the targeted politics tend to be their own.



Or maybe it's the hamfisted nature of them? Personally, I think the movie is just not that good.


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## Rasendori (Dec 26, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I hate to break this to you guys, but most major movies are political in some way. People are only more uppity about it now because the the targeted politics tend to be their own.



I disagree. I hate the rich who prey off the poor all day any day. That accounts for maybe 1% of my issue with this movie.


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## Imagine (Dec 26, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Its shouldn't have been a surprise that this didn't make as much TFA.  That was the first new Star Wars material in years, that level of excitement won't be reached again.


Word of mouth and reviews do matter, though. The jarring tear between fans, casual moviegoers and critics have definitely had an impact on this movies sales.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## U mad bro (Dec 26, 2017)

The lack of villain is the main problem with this film. Kylo Rinn is not intimidating or threatening at all. At best he looks like a school shooter that you laugh at.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 26, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> Search your feelings...you know it to be true



That you've become flaccid?



Seto Kaiba said:


> Or maybe it's the hamfisted nature of them? Personally, I think the movie is just not that good.





Rasendori said:


> I disagree. I hate the rich who prey off the poor all day any day. That accounts for maybe 1% of my issue with this movie.



I didn't say all you guys hated the movie for this reason, but when certain people start throwing around the term 'SJW' in their reviews, then it's probably a factor.


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## Fang (Dec 26, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I hate to break this to you guys, but most major movies are political in some way. People are only more uppity about it now because the the targeted politics tend to be their own.



None of this has to do with American politics in the 70s or 80s. The Emperor's arrival and parade scene in ROTJ is a literal reference to the May Day Parade celebrated by the Soviet Russians.


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## Suigetsu (Dec 26, 2017)

It seems KK and her mouse minions have finally pointed gun to Mark Hamill, poor Mark.



Check out 2:30


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## MartialHorror (Dec 26, 2017)

Fang said:


> None of this has to do with American politics in the 70s or 80s. The Emperor's arrival and parade scene in ROTJ is a literal reference to the May Day Parade celebrated by the Soviet Russians.



Hence, why people bitch about it more now, as when movies get political these days, they generally hit closer to home.



Suigetsu said:


> It seems KK and her mouse minions have finally pointed gun to Mark Hamill, poor Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out 2:30



Wait, isn't Mark Hamill responding to an earlier quote where he was complimenting the movie? Doesn't he say something like "But having seen the movie, I was wrong" immediately after voicing his doubts, in the same interview?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Dec 26, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Wait, isn't Mark Hamill responding to an earlier quote where he was complimenting the movie? Doesn't he say something like "But having seen the movie, I was wrong" immediately after voicing his doubts, in the same interview?


Check out the tweet, it is very recent and you have a bunch of late bald 30 year old shills shilling the movie.


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## Jotun (Dec 26, 2017)

I think the saddest thing about the movie is how many missed opportunities there were. You can make Rey a nobody, just make her an orphan or something that trained with Luke as a child and was the only survivor. Edit Rose and Holdo out of the movie. Poe joins Finn on a side mission that ends up failing or w/e. Ackbar replaces Holdo and sacrifices himself. Give Hux some character development, make him seem like an actual threat. Let Kylo do something that matters, let him kill Luke or beat Rey. Give him a force feat or anything to solidify him as the biggest threat coming into the next film. Throw the fans a bone and let Luke go ham on the first order.

Why introduce DJ at all? Why not kill Leia? 

I am ok with a lot that happened in the movie, but Luke almost killing Kylo in the tent made no sense whatsoever. I've had friends tried to argue that Luke has gone darkside before and that he has one of the highest body counts in the series (everyone on the Death Star, force choking guards in RotJ). Luke only "turned" when Vader threatened his sister, but that quickly subsided. I really do think that one point is unforgivable. Him being an emo hermit is a stretch since he has always been painted as hopeful. It would be like if Goku didn't want to save the earth anymore or if Naruto gave up on being the hokage.

Fuck that shit

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 26, 2017)

Suigetsu said:


> It seems KK and her mouse minions have finally pointed gun to Mark Hamill, poor Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out 2:30



Of course this was gonna happen, and always be skeptical of what stars say in a movie they just featured in. As often they have it in their contract not to truly disparage the movie. I know Bill Murray was legally threatened not to say anything negative about the recent Ghostbusters movie for example. There are some vindictive assholes out there, and they are especially venomous to the white men they see as oppressors or maintainers of a less ideal previous status quo. That Hamill would DARE criticize a movie that only incidentally has a female lead would be enough to smear him as a sexist to these people, for example.


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## Indra (Dec 27, 2017)

How to fix the movie (in my opinion):

> Making Rey a nobody, but keeping her powers tamed. They should of killed Luke off after he did a time skip with Rey instead of her going to train on her own, like she wasn't already a Master with the sword and the force based on portrayal.

> I don't hate negative nancy Luke, but they should of given him more exposition instead of having him be grumpy 99% of the time, and making a complete 180 at the last second. "Like hi, I'm still here"

You can't just make an important character like Luke just fall and be the opposite of who he was, just because he had one negative moment. They should of built the film on Rey and Luke's relationship, and slowly had him reveal what led to his downfall. The entire flashback scene with Kylo fell flat, and it just made Luke look weird. It could also have benefited Rey's character from not making the same mistake, whereas she just looks like a crazed Kylo fan-girl until the very last second.

> Kylo I think is just an awful villain and no matter how many times I read "he's complex and interesting" crap all over the internet, it doesn't make a heap of sense. I understand now why Kylo would be angry at Luke for trying to kill him (or what looked like an attempt at his life) - but there's still no reason for him to go full dark mode on his parents. That's what drove Anakin to the dark side, him losing his mother, and the thought of losing Padme. Whereas Kylo had everything, and was forcing himself to lose what he had - because "I'm a bad boy, fear me"

In my book I would of strengthened the conflict between the light and dark, and would have focused the story on Kylo and Leia's relationship (the whole Solo family mess is just a blur to me, there's like 0 flashbacks and buildup to this where it just comes out looking like hot garbage). For example having Kylo not kill his mother in his Tie Fighter, and engaging in conversation with her later in the movie where he repents what he did.

Snoke sensing the weakness in Kylo, decides to act on this. Which would more or less revolve around Kylo being manipulated by Snoke by using his mother against him, just like Anakin was being tethered to the dark side by his force visions. Which would end with Snoke being the one to lead the charge against the Rebellion, while Kylo is forced to watch. It would setup a great fight between Snoke and Luke, instead of the bull shit we got with Force projection v. Slit Wrist Lord.

The aftermath could go so many different ways.

 From start to finish this film just felt like a disappointment, and I don't think they can fix this with another film. No doubt it can be better, but it's not saving the story telling.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Dec 27, 2017)

Fuckers worried about sexism apparently also lack imagination when creating a fucking script

You had a potential space wizard/politician combo in Leia and relegated her to being the Gohan of the Trilogy in that she utterly wasted developing her hope inspiring super powers that were comparable in potential to her brother's

Why not have her be some kind of Jedi as of now, have her briefly offer Rey some form of token instruction to kick start some form of organic power growth, and have her passed off to Luke later if she doesn't have the time to continue tutelage being the leader of the resistance?

You have this powerful, iconic, woman character and shunt her off to the side of the conflict entirely

Just in time for her actress to kick the bucket

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 27, 2017)

Hamill is a bitch for caving in


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## Jotun (Dec 27, 2017)

Heavy force sensitive Leia would have been pretty dope if they had included her using powers in TFA. Super Leia wasn't bad, it's just the fact that after it happens, NO ONE FUCKING TALKS ABOUT IT. Not a joke, nothing. You can nitpick the airlock not sucking everyone out when they open the door, but you have to accept small things like that and just assume there is some type of forcefield. They do show something similar (still pretty fucking stupid) with the bombers in the opening sequence and at the end of Rogue One with Vader looking out at the ship.


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## Darth (Dec 27, 2017)

Disney couldn't possibly fuck up McGregor's Obi Wan movies as bad as they did TLJ right? Right?


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## Suigetsu (Dec 27, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Hamill is a bitch for caving in


He had no choice, didnt you see what happenwd to Zack Snyder’s daughter?


Also Even Riddley Scott is calling them out 



> Has Kathleen Kennedy offered you a Star Wars movie?
> >No, no. I’m too dangerous for that.
> >Why is that?
> >Because I know what I’m doing. [Laughs.] I think they like to be in control, and I like to be in control myself. When you get a guy who’s done a low-budget movie and you suddenly give him $180 million, it makes no sense whatsoever. It’s fuckin’ stupid. You know what the reshoots cost?


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## Imagine (Dec 27, 2017)

Darth said:


> McGregor's Obi Wan movies


Wait, what?


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## Rasendori (Dec 27, 2017)

Gilgamesh said:


> Hamill is a bitch for caving in



We all know Disney reps are paying for his new attitude, most people wouldn't have had the balls to say ish in the first place.
New Luke sucks but I don't blame the guy who tried to stop it.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 27, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Doc Mindstorm (Dec 27, 2017)

Reply from tweet presented by you.

1983: Wouldn't kill the Emperor, the most evil being in the Galaxy. "I am a Jedi knight, like my father before me." 
2017: Tries to kill his own nephew in his sleep. "See ya round kid." 

One must be deranged to think TLJ is good SW movie.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tony Lou (Dec 27, 2017)

Luke pranking Rey with that fucking leaf! 

"Ohhhh... can you feel it? That is the Force! You must be so gifted! Kappa"



Suigetsu said:


> It seems KK and her mouse minions have finally pointed gun to Mark Hamill, poor Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out 2:30



I need to know the story from the beginning. What negative things did he say about the movie before that?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## PureWIN (Dec 27, 2017)

Jotun said:


> I think the saddest thing about the movie is how many missed opportunities there were. You can make Rey a nobody, just make her an orphan or something that trained with Luke as a child and was the only survivor. Edit Rose and Holdo out of the movie. Poe joins Finn on a side mission that ends up failing or w/e. Ackbar replaces Holdo and sacrifices himself. Give Hux some character development, make him seem like an actual threat. Let Kylo do something that matters, let him kill Luke or beat Rey. Give him a force feat or anything to solidify him as the biggest threat coming into the next film. Throw the fans a bone and let Luke go ham on the first order.



Agreed. Although Leia should have been the one to pilot the ship - she could have had her moment with Luke while waiting for the drive to activate. Now we're getting a super lame situation where she randomly dies between movies.



> I am ok with a lot that happened in the movie, but Luke almost killing Kylo in the tent made no sense whatsoever. I've had friends tried to argue that Luke has gone darkside before and that he has one of the highest body counts in the series (everyone on the Death Star, force choking guards in RotJ). Luke only "turned" when Vader threatened his sister, but that quickly subsided. I really do think that one point is unforgivable. Him being an emo hermit is a stretch since he has always been painted as hopeful. It would be like if Goku didn't want to save the earth anymore or if Naruto gave up on being the hokage.



I actually enjoyed that part. 30 years has passed and with new life experiences Luke has changed rather than being the same exact person he was at the end of VI. The Skywalker family are known for their overreactions and extreme actions, so I wasn't surprised by Luke pulling a total 180 when he became fearful.


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## Ennoea (Dec 27, 2017)

Ridley Scott went on one in that interview. Love the guy.


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## Darth (Dec 27, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Wait, what?


Well it's just a rumor thats been going around for awhile. And McGregor has publicly stated that he's interested in reprising his role


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## Imagine (Dec 27, 2017)

Darth said:


> Well it's just a rumor thats been going around for awhile. And McGregor has publicly stated that he's interested in reprising his role


I see


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## U mad bro (Dec 27, 2017)

Another bad plot device to me is the kamikaze starship putting a dent in the first order fleet. Making a big ass explosion. I mean shit why didn't no one think to do that when they had spare ships.


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## Tony Lou (Dec 27, 2017)

So, Ben Solo x Rey.

Yeh or Nah?


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> Another bad plot device to me is the kamikaze starship putting a dent in the first order fleet. Making a big ass explosion. I mean shit why didn't no one think to do that when they had spare ships.


Lack of resources?

Ships don't grow on trees, boy.


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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 27, 2017)

Luiz said:


> So, Ben Solo x Rey.
> 
> Yeh or Nah?



Thumbs down.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 27, 2017)

Luiz said:


> So, Ben Solo x Rey.
> 
> Yeh or Nah?



its more disgusting than i*c*st


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## Tony Lou (Dec 27, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> its more disgusting than i*c*st



I mean, it is only a matter of time now. 

If Luke hadn't interrupted them, it wouldn't take long before they started Force sexting.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 27, 2017)

Hamill never said he regrets what he said about Luke, he said he regrets stating what he said out loud. Not surprising given Disney probably has a legion of lawyers and attorneys regularly available to ass fuck anyone who speaks out against their decisions.  Which doesn't change anything, he still fundamentally hated what Rian did.

The man is also a master of backhand comments.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 27, 2017)

inb4 mark hamill gets slapped by mickey mouse.gif


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 27, 2017)

Mark didn't have to say a thing...he said it all with his face after the SW premier.


the face of a man who has had everything, including his dignity stripped from him.

Reactions: Like 5 | Lewd 1


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## Fang (Dec 27, 2017)

I like how the context even in his twitter is "voicing" his comments, not the comments themselves.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 27, 2017)

Mark doesn't have the cache to demand a rewrite of the script?


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## Skaddix (Dec 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Mark doesn't have the cache to demand a rewrite of the script?



Nope...Fuck Him Fuck Them All.


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## Rasendori (Dec 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Mark doesn't have the cache to demand a rewrite of the script?



His pay wasn't even close to Carrie. He got no cache at all.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 27, 2017)

i already told you why Disney killed off Luke


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 27, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> Another bad plot device to me is the kamikaze starship putting a dent in the first order fleet. Making a big ass explosion. I mean shit why didn't no one think to do that when they had spare ships.



You mean the movie actually treating physics as a thing in space?  Anything that gets hit by anything in space will launch shrapnel and debris - the more speed and energy behind the collision, the more energy the shrapnel and debris will have, and who knows what effect that would have had on the remaining ships, if shrapnel went their way?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2017)

edit: oops, was posted already

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2017)



Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 27, 2017)

Luiz said:


> So, Ben Solo x Rey.
> 
> Yeh or Nah?


I was almost ready to unzip right there in the theater 

hottest big screen pairing in a long time tbh

Reactions: Informative 1 | Lewd 1


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## Fang (Dec 27, 2017)

Disney shills are pretty sad tbqh


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 27, 2017)



Reactions: Like 2


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## Orochibuto (Dec 27, 2017)

Fang said:


> The level of excitment won't be reached because their watering down and diluting hype by releasing constant films every year. I can not wait for how much a debacle the Han Solo I mean SOYLO movie will be given its already so bad it appears Ron Howard might be thinking of walking out of it too.



I heard the original top tier directors for Solo got fired because they didnt folded for KK.


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## Ennoea (Dec 27, 2017)

Disney have a lot of issues with Directors. At this rate no one with talent will want to touch them.


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## U mad bro (Dec 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You mean the movie actually treating physics as a thing in space?  Anything that gets hit by anything in space will launch shrapnel and debris - the more speed and energy behind the collision, the more energy the shrapnel and debris will have, and who knows what effect that would have had on the remaining ships, if shrapnel went their way?


Vs the ships all getting destroyed anyway. Not only that they still had hyperdrive they couldn't use it because of the tracker.
Which wouldn't be a problem if one ship sacrificed itself so the rest could run. In fact Finn and Rose arc is entirely worthless because they could always do that. They ran around for nothing.


~Gesy~ said:


> Lack of resources?
> 
> Ships don't grow on trees, boy.


Still got blown up anyways. So did it really matter keeping those ships in the long run nope. In fac only a handful survived anyways. Why didn't they scatter on the smaller non tracked ships is another question? I have so many questions.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 27, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> Vs the ships all getting destroyed anyway. Not only that they still had hyperdrive they couldn't use it because of the tracker.
> Which wouldn't be a problem if one ship sacrificed itself so the rest could run. In fact Finn and Rose arc is entirely worthless because they could always do that. They ran around for nothing.



Did you forget the part where they'd just switch to another ship to track the Resistance Fleet if the first one was destroyed?  Or how the fleet had only enough fuel left for _one more jump_, at which point they would be completely at the mercy of the First Order regardless?  Or how Crait was the place chosen to be where the Resistance would flee to because it was both heavily fortified and had enough power to broadcast a signal to the forces in the Outer Rim? 

You just ignored most of the in-story reasons just to fabricate a complaint.


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## U mad bro (Dec 27, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Lack of resources?
> 
> Ships don't grow on trees, boy.


Still got blown up anyways. So did it really matter keeping those ships in the long run nope. In fac only a handful survived anyways. Why didn't they scatter on the smaller non tracked ships is another question? I have so many questions.


Catalyst75 said:


> Did you forget the part where they'd just switch to another ship to track the Resistance Fleet if the first one was destroyed?  Or how the fleet had only enough fuel left for _one more jump_, at which point they would be completely at the mercy of the First Order regardless?  Or how Crait was the place chosen to be where the Resistance would flee to because it was both heavily fortified and had enough power to broadcast a signal to the forces in the Outer Rim?
> 
> You just ignored most of the in-story reasons just to fabricate a complaint.


I didn't ignore anything. The* fleet *had enough for one jump not *one* ship. If *one* ship sacrificed themselves like that earlier on they would have had a perfect opportunity to slip away completely from the first order. Just like how Finn and Rose were able to slip away. Which by the way would have been a perfect opportunity to send out a help beacon to rebels in the outer rim.Escaping to crait was a trash ass plan. Everyone had trash had plans that made subsequent movie pointless. Once you start pulling on a loose thread the movie start unraveling itself.


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## Atlas (Dec 27, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> I heard the original top tier directors for Solo got fired because they didnt folded for KK.



Pretty much confirmation that movie is gonna be shit.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 27, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> I didn't ignore anything. The* fleet *had enough for one jump not *one* ship. If *one* ship sacrificed themselves like that earlier on they would have had a perfect opportunity to slip away completely from the first order. Just like how Finn and Rose were able to slip away. Which by the way would have been a perfect opportunity to send out a help beacon to rebels in the outer rim.Escaping to crait was a trash ass plan. Everyone had trash had plans that made subsequent movie pointless. Once you start pulling on a loose thread the movie start unraveling itself.



Oh, you're still ignoring a lot of stuff, such as how the First Order would have shot down the first ship that was turning towards them, once they figured out they were going to jump to light speed at them.  

Your entire argument hinges on ignoring facts such as that _since the First Order commanders immediately ordered for all guns to be turned on the Raddus the instant they figured out what it was going to do._


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## U mad bro (Dec 27, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Oh, you're still ignoring a lot of stuff, such as how the First Order would have shot down the first ship that was turning towards them, once they figured out they were going to jump to light speed at them.
> 
> Your entire argument hinges on ignoring facts such as that _since the First Order commanders immediately ordered for all guns to be turned on the Raddus the instant they figured out what it was going to do._


They figured it out but did they stop ship nope. So your point is invalid. Plus the ships still had power to shields in the beginning so...


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## Ennoea (Dec 27, 2017)

Light speed tracking sounds like junk to me. These mofos don't have tracking lasers yet.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 27, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Light speed tracking sounds like junk to me. These mofos don't have tracking lasers yet.




Listen closely to what is said at 1:12.  They set it up with Rogue One.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 27, 2017)

Weiss said:


> edit: oops, was posted already

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 27, 2017)

The hole on the island Luke is at in TLJ is representative of the coherence of the plot of the film.

That is to say it has none.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Pilaf (Dec 27, 2017)

Submitted without additional commentary.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The World (Dec 28, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You mean the movie actually treating physics as a thing in space?  Anything that gets hit by anything in space will launch shrapnel and debris - the more speed and energy behind the collision, the more energy the shrapnel and debris will have, and who knows what effect that would have had on the remaining ships, if shrapnel went their way?



wrong


Catalyst75 said:


> Did you forget the part where they'd just switch to another ship to track the Resistance Fleet if the first one was destroyed?  Or how the fleet had only enough fuel left for _one more jump_, at which point they would be completely at the mercy of the First Order regardless?  Or how Crait was the place chosen to be where the Resistance would flee to because it was both heavily fortified and had enough power to broadcast a signal to the forces in the Outer Rim?
> 
> You just ignored most of the in-story reasons just to fabricate a complaint.


you mean how the First Order was dumb enough to not have a few ships jump ahead and stop them in a pincer move but trail behind for hours until they run out of fuel?

Derp

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 28, 2017)

Weiss said:


>


It is not hard to do with the resources of Disney..


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## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2017)

The World said:


> the First Order was dumb enough to not have a few ships jump ahead and stop them in a pincer move


didn't it say they couldn't because of the force field


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

No


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## The World (Dec 28, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> didn't it say they couldn't because of the force field


who cares if they have force fields if 5+ Star Destroyers are on top of their ass and they have no where to go?


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 28, 2017)

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/kojima-star-wars-in-the-era-of-disney-w514793

I imagine some people won't like Kojima's more positive outlook on the film.


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## Rasendori (Dec 28, 2017)

I JUST REALIZED THAT BORUTO DETROYS TLJ IN HOW IT HANDLES AN OLDER PROTOGANIST..

the bar is low guys... real low.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2017)

The World said:


> who cares if they have force fields if 5+ Star Destroyers are on top of their ass and they have no where to go?


what 5+ star destroyers? there were like two trailing the central flagship iirc and that was it


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

There was like 8 or 9 other fucking Star Destroyers along side Snoke's flagship


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## Ennoea (Dec 28, 2017)

The Last Order could have just called back up and attack from all sides. The whole plot was idiotic honestly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

_[HASHTAG]#EverySceneIsBroken[/HASHTAG]_


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

>down to 51%

Hahaha the public truly hates this movie

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

LIES! it's just one or two trolls (who also hate women!)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Dec 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> >down to 51%
> 
> Hahaha the public truly hates this movie



Nuh uh, its just mad SW-nerds who didnt like the new take on Luke

Everything will be explained in Ep 9, Jarjar got this

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> >down to 51%
> 
> Hahaha the public truly hates this movie



Isn't 51% still technically in favor of the people who like it? And wow, considering you hate the movie, you sure seem to be obsessing over it right now.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 28, 2017)

I severely dislike that the writers chose to have Kylo Ren turn evil, not only because they are reusing the plot of Anakin turning evil, but also because it makes the unfortunate implication that, any time there is an organized group of a large number of force-sensitive people being trained, one of them will inevitably turn to the dark side.

Why would the writers choose to have such a negative and pessimistic view of the force in this series?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Isn't 51% still technically in favor of the people who like it? And wow, considering you hate the movie, you sure seem to be obsessing over it right now.



Do you think getting a 51 on your final exam is good? The rating means mixed, not positive. This is literally going toward Battlefield Earth tier territory.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> Do you think getting a 51 on your final exam is good? The rating means mixed, not positive. This is literally going toward Battlefield Earth tier territory.



No, but I don't 75% positive is that good either, yet that's still the majority. You're right that it's mixed, but mixed does not mean the public hates it. Technically, more people like it, even if it's certainly divisive...Although both of our points are completely irrelevant as the 51% is only from rotten tomatoes. I could also argue that 70% 'of the public' rated it between a 7 and a 10/10 on imdb and that would also be pointless.

Not sure what the Battlefield Earth reference was for. Did that receive mixed reactions when that came out? Because I seem to remember that being unanimously reviled upon release (although people 'enjoy' it a lot more now, so maybe it's now divisive?).


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

Keep telling yourself that


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## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> Keep telling yourself that



....

Okay, I surrender. With this post, you have thoroughly debunked all of my points. I have been defeated. You are truly...a master debater...


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

Ok buddy


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

_they made Luke suck on this things tits and then they killed him_: the movie.

Reactions: Funny 9 | Informative 1


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## Jake CENA (Dec 28, 2017)

the whole Kylo plot is similar to Big Show's character. WWE doesn't know how to book that giant. he's had like the most multiple turns in his career. he's face this week and then turns heel the next for no reason!


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## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> The Last Order could have just called back up and attack from all sides. The whole plot was idiotic honestly.


was there some suggestion that they have a ton of backup they could call

i understood their loss at the starkiller base + the loss of their biggest ship and a couple others in the opening battle to mean they were severely depleted and pretty much down to kylo's ship, snoke's flagship, and a couple star destroyers


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## MartialHorror (Dec 28, 2017)

Something I thought could've made the movie better-

I think it would've been cool if Rey actually agreed to join Kylo when he offered his hand. This would've been a better pay-off for Luke's concerns that Rey seemed drawn to the power of the darkside. She would've been present when Luke dueled Kylo, which would've played out the same and after Luke's sacrifice, she'd come to the conclusion that Kylo was wrong and re-affirm her loyalty to the rebellion. I don't even think this would've been contrived, as Kylo had a pretty good pitch about letting go of the past. This would've not only been another surprise, but it would've been a blow to the 'Rey is a Mary Sue' argument and given her something more interesting to do for the finale than just force lift a bunch of rocks.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Something I thought could've made the movie better-
> 
> I think it would've been cool if Rey actually agreed to join Kylo when he offered his hand. This would've been a better pay-off for Luke's concerns that Rey seemed drawn to the power of the darkside. She would've been present when Luke dueled Kylo, which would've played out the same and after Luke's sacrifice, she'd come to the conclusion that Kylo was wrong and re-affirm her loyalty to the rebellion. I don't even think this would've been contrived, as Kylo had a pretty good pitch about letting go of the past. This would've not only been another surprise, but it would've been a blow to the 'Rey is a Mary Sue' argument and given her something more interesting to do for the finale than just force lift a bunch of rocks.


Sadly, I don't think you're joking


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Are we sure those things are tits?
> 
> *It's located pretty low bro...*


 

_They made Luke suck dick cheese out of a Space Whale then they killed him:_ The Movie

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

Sequel Trilogy events make no sense

First Order isn't even the entire remnant of what remains of the Empire, its literally a splinter group that somehow made a planet sized version of the first two Death Stars, and in a matter of days to weeks tops between TFA and TLJ is somehow curbstomping the entire New Republic which has control over most of the known galaxy and this is all somehow due to the New Republic being so incompetent they completely disarmed their entire military sans what Leia is personally bankrolling 

"Those things are fleet killers" when Poe talks about that Dreadnought at the start of movie that blows up their base on the planet at the end of TFA, wouldn't that imply those kind of warships have already decimated fleets of Resistance or New Republic warships? Yet I'm suppose to believe that First Order is a tiny military despite the fact the opening scrawl talks about them dominating most of the galaxy for weeks despite the setback and loss of Starkiller Base?

Sequel Trilogy is literally up its own ass in plot holes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 28, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> was there some suggestion that they have a ton of backup they could call
> 
> i understood their loss at the starkiller base + the loss of their biggest ship and a couple others in the opening battle to mean they were severely depleted and pretty much down to kylo's ship, snoke's flagship, and a couple star destroyers


Apparently the Galaxy has fallen to the hands of the first order. Literally within the space of two days they're supposed to have seized multiple star systems and are on track to over throw the Republic. Yep. Talk about easy victory.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 28, 2017)

Shoulda been the Yuuzhan Vong or however it's spelled.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Shoulda been the Yuuzhan Vong or however it's spelled.


don't get crazy now

they could've just adapted the already existing _son of Leia turns to the Dark side and conquers the galaxy_ story...

it even has a female protagonist


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Shoulda been the Yuuzhan Vong or however it's spelled.



Then all the movies would be rated R

The NJO series is when Del Rey made Star Wars go 40k tier grimdark


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## Lucaniel (Dec 28, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Apparently the Galaxy has fallen to the hands of the first order. Literally within the space of two days they're supposed to have seized multiple star systems and are on track to over throw the Republic. Yep. Talk about easy victory.


hmm

it's tough trying to figure out how significant anything is when they say it plays out on a galactic level but all you ever see is the action on a couple of planets. i'll have to rewatch


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 28, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> hmm
> 
> it's tough trying to figure out how significant anything is when they say it plays out on a galactic level but all you ever see is the action on a couple of planets. *i'll have to rewatch*


pay for something that deserves the money


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 28, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Are we sure those things are tits?
> 
> It's located pretty low bro...



On most mammals, the mammary glands are located low on the female's torso, because they are quadrupedal; only on monkeys, apes, and humans are the mammary glands located high on the torso, because they are bipedal.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Fang (Dec 28, 2017)

Do you milk animals too?


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> Do you milk animals too?



No, I have no intention of touching the mammary glands of a non-human animal, because that is simply too weird, even for me.


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## Aduro (Dec 28, 2017)

I still actually like the new trilogy believe it or not. I think I'm lenient because I don't expect much plot consistency from a franchise where 9/10 the words "The Force" could be swapped with "because the scripts says so". More importantly for me there are a lot of moments which were a lot of fun. There are plenty of characters I really enjoy. So it still beats the hell out of the prequels which only really had one character I liked (because Frank Oz is always great). But I do get annoyed with major character inconsistencies in the new Star Wars since the characters were always the draw than the plot in the original trilogy.

Something that bothers me is that its implied that Rey and Ben are special snowflakes because they are torn between the two sides of the force. Except that nearly every Jedi and Sith is tempted by the other side all the time. The plot of the original trilogy hinged on whether Luke could convert Vader or the Emperor would kill or convert Luke. And frankly they both had more actual reasons to turn than Ren did given his lack of a cause for Sith emotions. The prequels were built on good ideas that had sloppier executions that the one Jabba tried to pull on Han. I mean despite how awful the prequels were. Anakin starting as a slave, then steadily turning to forcibly controlling others had a lot of potential for irony and charater growth. I mean that potential was horribly wasted in practice. But Anakin had better reasons to be contradictory than Ben Solo. And so did Luke. Ben's causality is backwards, he took power from the dark side then felt fear, anger, hate etc.

Oh, and the editing is awful in nearly everything that isn't an action scene and some of the action scenes. Especially that zoom in on the blue lightsaber like twice, totally telegraphing the fuck out of Ren's grand betrayal. And the way they added too many cuts to the final shot of Luke looking at the sunset. The original shot had minimal editing and let us take the time to get on board with Luke's emotions. It got the audience on-board with Luke as a frustrated kid who wanted adventure.

Plus they need to let the screenwipes go. They were lame in the 70s, distractingly lame in the 90s and they're a bad joke now.


DemonDragonJ said:


> No, I have no intention of touching the mammary glands of a non-human animal, because that is simply too weird, even for me.


But you'll put the stuff squirted out of those mammaries into your mouth? Meat is eating chunks of dead animal's flesh (including the arse cheeks), milk is squirted from a cow's nipples and eggs are a bird's unfertilised period. Either go vegan and try not to think about the shit in the compost that goes on your veggies. Or do what normal people do and ignore the stuff that seems gross when you think about it, and enjoy your food.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 28, 2017)

Aduro said:


> But you'll put the stuff squirted out of those mammaries into your mouth? Meat is eating chunks of dead animal's flesh (including the arse cheeks), milk is squirted from a cow's nipples and eggs are a bird's unfertilised period. Either go vegan and try not to think about the shit in the compost that goes on your veggies. Or do what normal people do and ignore the stuff that seems gross when you think about it, and enjoy your food.


Huh? What does this have to do with not wanting to milk the animal yourself?


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## Palm Siberia (Dec 29, 2017)

Yeah because we needed the whole casino plot that came to the earth-shattering conclusion that rich folks are evil.


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 29, 2017)

Palm Siberia said:


> Yeah because we needed the whole casino plot that came to the earth-shattering conclusion that rich folks are evil.



Because it was necessary for Finn's character arc.  The guy was sheltered and raised from birth to be a soldier for the First Order, so he is unaware of most of the non-military aspects of life, as well as initially unaware of how those at Canto Bight got their wealth in the first place.  Learning about that and how the First Order benefited from it is part of what led to his eventual decision to fully join the Resistance in fighting the First Order.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Dec 29, 2017)

Learning that certainly didn't require that filler subplot.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 29, 2017)

It was aaaaaall worth to free the space horses!

never mind the child slaves; it's all about them horsies..._surely_ _they_ won't get rounded up again once the casino has been cleaned by the slaves right?

fucking hack writers


every_scene_is_shit

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Jotun (Dec 29, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/kojima-star-wars-in-the-era-of-disney-w514793
> 
> I imagine some people won't like Kojima's more positive outlook on the film.


_
*Spoiler*:  






*As far as the story is concerned, little waves are made and there are no space-shattering conflicts.* Although, to be fair this may be an inescapable result of being the second act of three parts.

In any case, the story immediately reminded me of Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk. Both are only one part of a larger story, and focus almost exclusively on the theme of escape. Like Dunkirk, *The Last Jedi largely sets aside any questions about the causes of conflict and what effects the outcome may yield.* Rather than tell a story, it's more concerned with effectively presenting characters and situations. 

This method, akin to the portrayal of TV series characters, eschews plot progression in favor of deeper character development. Significant effort is applied to diving into and increasing the allure of characters from the previous episode: Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, as well as a host of new characters. *However, failure to follow through with these character developments yields regrettable results. Poe gets kicked to the side early on and never finds a place to shine, and Rey and Luke's interactions fail to reach a satisfying conclusion.*

Click to expand...




_
Pretty fair review tbh. Seems pretty similar to what I have been telling friends and family. There are many plot holes and things you can nitpick, but the movie itself is enjoyable to casual fans. The main issue is that it does nothing for Star Wars fans. It's a Marvel movie with Star Wars paint. His last point is good too.


*Spoiler*: __ 





> The Last Jedi may be the first attempt to free Star Wars from its era of mythology, and propel it into the present. The closing scene of the young boy hopefully gazing up at the stars is as fitting an indication of this intent as any.
> 
> *In Star Wars, anyone can be the hero. That's what The Last Jedi tells us. It's a new era, starting in a kingdom without a king.*
> 
> ...






This movie really just feels like a setup for the new trilogy, which is what pissed me off the most.


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

Palm Siberia said:


> Yeah because we needed the whole casino plot that came to the earth-shattering conclusion that rich folks are evil.



Oh yes. And there's totally no irony that the largest media corporation in the world who thrives on capitalism and marketing merchandise is telling us being wealthy is bad, being successful is awful, and needing to throw in another sub-plot about gay space horses.

Thank you Disney.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

Jotun said:


> This movie really just feels like a setup for the new trilogy, which is what pissed me off the most.



Because it is. It does not feel like a Star Wars movie. Hell give the Prequels the flak you want but at least they had the spirit of being Star Wars without having to retread on the same ground or formula broken in already by the Originals. Rian's movie is nothing more than a Marvel filmed dressed up like Star Wars, with the cringe-inducing dialogue, lack of narrative coherence, tons of filler and irrelevant sub-plots, and existing solely to act as a backdoor pilot for his proposed spin-off trilogy.

This is the state Star Wars is being lead under Kathleen Kennedy.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 29, 2017)

If there is to be another trilogy after this trilogy, I hope that Lucasfilm waits at least a decade before making it, to allow audience to have time to actually anticipate it, just as a decade passed between the current trilogy and the previous trilogy and sixteen years passed between the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy.


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## The World (Dec 29, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Because it was necessary for Finn's character arc.  *The guy was sheltered and raised from birth to be a soldier for the First Order,* so he is unaware of most of the non-military aspects of life, as well as initially unaware of how those at Canto Bight got their wealth in the first place.  Learning about that and how the First Order benefited from it is part of what led to his eventual decision to fully join the Resistance in fighting the First Order.


lol no he wasn't


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## Jake CENA (Dec 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> If there is to be another trilogy after this trilogy, I hope that Lucasfilm waits at least a decade before making it, to allow audience to have time to actually anticipate it, just as a decade passed between the current trilogy and the previous trilogy and sixteen years passed between the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy.



yes and the focus will shift to some random characters we know nothing about

that's why i'm asking, what is the whole point of this movie and killing off luke?


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## U mad bro (Dec 29, 2017)

I kinda agree with this.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> yes and the focus will shift to some random characters we know nothing about
> 
> that's why i'm asking, what is the whole point of this movie and killing off luke?



....

This is a silly question. I know you guys don't like the movie, but seriously? Prior to the original "Star Wars", you knew nothing about Luke, Han and Leia. If they do multiple trilogies like this, of course you're going to get new characters. As to why they killed off Luke, they felt it was a fitting way of resolving the character. Everyone is assuming they're just severing ties with the past...even though it's so f@cking obvious that he's going to return as a Force ghost in episode 9...I'm honestly surprised you thought they wouldn't kill him. I was sure he'd suffer the same fate as Obi Wan even before TFA came out, although I wasn't expecting it until Episode 9. 

Ugh, this is exactly why "Star Wars" will never reach the heights of the original trilogy, because the fandom doesn't want the franchise to grow. They want it to be safe and predictable. It's one thing to complain about the way Luke died, but to ask "What is the point!?" Why kill off Obi Wan in the original? It's served a dramatic purpose. If no one relevant dies, then the conflict is cheapened.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> ....
> 
> This is a silly question. I know you guys don't like the movie, but seriously? Prior to the original "Star Wars", you knew nothing about Luke, Han and Leia. If they do multiple trilogies like this, of course you're going to get new characters. As to why they killed off Luke, they felt it was a fitting way of resolving the character. Everyone is assuming they're just severing ties with the past...even though it's so f@cking obvious that he's going to return as a Force ghost in episode 9...I'm honestly surprised you thought they wouldn't kill him. I was sure he'd suffer the same fate as Obi Wan even before TFA came out, although I wasn't expecting it until Episode 9.
> 
> Ugh, this is exactly why "Star Wars" will never reach the heights of the original trilogy, because the fandom doesn't want the franchise to grow. They want it to be safe and predictable. It's one thing to complain about the way Luke died, but to ask "What is the point!?" Why kill off Obi Wan in the original? It's served a dramatic purpose. If no one relevant dies, then the conflict is cheapened.



Stop.

This is not growing. It's not going to grow because Disney. Stop trying to blame the fanbase for it.

Also it can be argued that death can be an overused plot device, and in this case it is. You already had Han die in the first movie, the shock from that is already there. It happening once again with another of the original protags is treaded ground.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Stop.
> 
> This is not growing. It's not going to grow because Disney. Stop trying to blame the fanbase for it.
> 
> Also it can be argued that death can be an overused plot device, and in this case it is. You already had Han die in the first movie, the shock from that is already there. It happening once again with another of the original protags is treaded ground.



No, I can blame the franchise. For all of Disney and the new trilogies problems, they have taken risks with the property, even if they're stumbling a bit (or a lot, depending on your perspective). They can grow.

You can certainly argue that death is an overused plot device and personally, I think Han Solo should've died in Episode 8 instead of 7. Maybe Luke's death should've been saved for Episode 9. But that isn't the argument right now, is it? He was complaining that Luke died. Period. 

And there was just another post promoting an "SJW's ruined Star Wars" video, making it so easy for me to blame the fandom.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> No, I can blame the franchise. For all of Disney and the new trilogies problems, they have taken risks with the property, even if they're stumbling a bit (or a lot, depending on your perspective). They can grow.
> 
> You can certainly argue that death is an overused plot device and personally, I think Han Solo should've died in Episode 8 instead of 7. Maybe Luke's death should've been saved for Episode 9. But that isn't the argument right now, is it? He was complaining that Luke died. Period.
> 
> And there was just another post promoting an "SJW's ruined Star Wars" video, making it so easy for me to blame the fandom.



Disney is only willing to take risks for long as it doesn't threaten the bottom line. After this movie's performance, compared to the first, do you really think they are going to try and take creative risks? 

The video is more nuanced than it seems, you should watch it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bluebeard (Dec 29, 2017)

What happened to this being a flop?


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## Turrin (Dec 29, 2017)

Eliyua23 said:


> His whole purpose for being interested in Ben is his ability to harness both sides of the force , he wants a new Vader but one that is more centered and balanced with his emotions one that can easily sever bonds and not get wrapped up in emotions which is what Snoke was faulting Ben for doing , he created that bond with Rey and Ren and he knows full well that Ben is of a kind nature , killing his father wrecked him , he couldn’t kill Leia , and he sensed Kylo’s intentions his own words this was a way for him to do down the path of darkness


At no point does Snoke indicate that he wants someone who is powerful with both Light and Dark-sides of the force, or someone balanced. Snoke's whole thing w/ Ben is he wanted him to kill off the Light in him, which is why he made such a big deal out of Kylo killing Han and why he talks about how the downfall of the empire was that Vader failed to kill Luke. 

The reason Snoke talks about the Light side of the force, is because he's trying to learn from the mistakes of Sidious. Sidious believed that light had been completely extinguished from Anakin and that the pull of the Light couldn't be as strong as the pull of the Dark. Sidious ultimately fails by underestimating the pull of the Light and Anakin betraying him to save Luke. Snoke acknowledges the pull of the Light in Ben and thus wants him to kill it off, warning him that this is why Vader failed. It's not about balance for Snoke it's about elimination of the Light. 

Ironically Snoke fails not because Kylo gets pulled back to the Light, but because Kylo becomes dark enough to kill his own master (Snoke) to seize an opportunity to take power, much like how Darth Plaguies was killed off by Sidious in a moment of weakness. 



> At this part of the game Snoke almost still has to be a major player , he has been built up over two movies and we still need to know what his overall
> Goal is besides killing Luke , to bring in an entire new villain in a 2:30
> Hour movie develop said villain and cram it into the climax of the story will be damn near impossible instead I think Snoke story finishes in 9 and it opens it up for the new overarching villain for 10, 11, 12 so we see Snoke is a big deal but what he did and who is will open things up for a brand new story to be explored as we kind of get that with this ending with the little boy with the broom stick
> 
> I do think there will be Sith force ghost and we will see Kylo trying to become one with the force


I don't think Episode IX will have new Big-Bad for the heroes to face, the Big Bad of Episode IX, will be Kylo and Hux. As I said before Snoke's importance to the story will be the explanation for how he became so powerful. 

If Snoke learned from some Sith Force Ghost, then we will likely see this Ghost reach out to offer assistance to Kylo, to mirror Yoda, Obi-Wan, or Luke reaching out to offer assistance to Rey. 

If Snoke gained his power from some Dark-Side energy source or object, we will likely see Kylo attempt the same to overcome Rey

If Snoke was trained by some other dark-master or brother-hood, we will likely see Kylo seek their teachings as well to beat Rey, but probably their figure heads will be left for the following trilogy to be dealt with

If Snoke just became that powerful because the force seeks to balance light and dark, and he was the foil to Luke, then this will play into the explanation of Rey being a foil to Kylo and why she is so powerful with the force, and why balancing of Light and Dark is important 

And so on.


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## Mider T (Dec 29, 2017)

Bluebeard said:


> What happened to this being a flop?


Star Wars doesn't flop.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 29, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Stop.
> 
> This is not growing. It's not going to grow because Disney. Stop trying to blame the fanbase for it.


it's much easier to blame "the fanbase", than look at your shit story and put a little effort to have it flow & make sense.

this movie is subversion for the sake of subversion; 'deconstruction' of the old while never introducing anything new, certainly not for the sake of telling a good story. 

THAT, along with its endless narrative flops (every plot line goes nowhere), make this a bad movie. 

I left the movie un-eager to see the next one; i had no questions about where the story was going. I didn't care.

If they're gonna pump out one of these turds every year shouldn't i be anticipating them? At least Disney's Marvel's Avenger's gets that right.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 29, 2017)

Mider T said:


> Star Wars doesn't flop.



Yeah, it's always gonna make money, but is it going to make the return on investment is another matter. If they see the movies aren't performing within an acceptable margin they will be more lording over the creative process like with the first.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> ....
> 
> This is a silly question. I know you guys don't like the movie, but seriously? Prior to the original "Star Wars", you knew nothing about Luke, Han and Leia. If they do multiple trilogies like this, of course you're going to get new characters. As to why they killed off Luke, they felt it was a fitting way of resolving the character. Everyone is assuming they're just severing ties with the past...even though it's so f@cking obvious that he's going to return as a Force ghost in episode 9...I'm honestly surprised you thought they wouldn't kill him. I was sure he'd suffer the same fate as Obi Wan even before TFA came out, although I wasn't expecting it until Episode 9.
> 
> Ugh, this is exactly why "Star Wars" will never reach the heights of the original trilogy, because the fandom doesn't want the franchise to grow. They want it to be safe and predictable. It's one thing to complain about the way Luke died, but to ask "What is the point!?" Why kill off Obi Wan in the original? It's served a dramatic purpose. If no one relevant dies, then the conflict is cheapened.



You fail to notice that they are just recycling the same shit over and over again. With the multiple heel turns and forced redemption drama.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Disney is only willing to take risks for long as it doesn't threaten the bottom line. After this movie's performance, compared to the first, do you really think they are going to try and take creative risks?
> 
> The video is more nuanced than it seems, you should watch it.



I actually agree with you that now, they will play Episode 9 as safely as possible. Most blockbusters are not going to want to take risks anyway and "Empire Strikes Back" wasn't very well received when it first came out for going against fans expectations- which probably lead to a lot of the problems which plagued "Return of the Jedi". But that doesn't mean these films shouldn't experiment or take risks or shouldn't be praised for it. This is part of why I can't stand the fandom though. They insist they don't like "TLJ" because they don't think it's a good movie and that's fair. Arguments can certainly be made why the film is bad, mediocre, uneven, whatever. Any film, no matter how acclaimed or beloved, is not above criticism. Yet these arguments (at least to me) have been mostly dogshit because they tend to fall back on the attempts at doing something new, like Luke force projecting. Or they will seemingly forget that while yes, there are serious contrivances in TLJ or bad writing, the original trilogy was not above that. They simply don't realize that as a kid, their brains didn't register the cheesy dialogue, the dumb character moves or lack of continuity and nostalgia keeps them from confronting these flaws. 

And I tried watching the video, but gave up when he started saying there was diversity in the original trilogy. While it certainly pushes boundaries for its time, having a token black character or a token female in a sea of white males does not= diversity. While I agree SJW's can be problematic to the point of being trolls, they aren't worse than their counter-trolls who seem to hate that a female and a black guy are the leads of this movie. My brain is still hurting from that one guy attacking the movie because "Holdo was an SJW". For that alone, I think the back-lash here is more of a bandwagon than actual criticism. People like saying "SJW" and probably have a streak of racism or misogyny within them, so throw out the buzzwords because it's the 'cool thing to do'. I personally don't think half of them don't even understand what an SJW is. 

Let me ask you this, would you have liked "TLJ" is Rey was a male? Or Finn was white? All of the problems surrounding the characters would still exist. People are just jumping on this bandwagon because they now want an excuse to beat up on the movie.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> You fail to notice that they are just recycling the same shit over and over again. With the multiple heel turns and forced redemption drama.



They kind of are, but at least they're being creative about it. They deliberately go against your expectations based off your knowledge of the original trilogy...or am I going to have to spell this out for you?


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 29, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> You fail to notice that they are just recycling the same shit over and over again. With the multiple heel turns and forced redemption drama.


this shit is just half Empire half RotJ

with everything interesting about them sucked out for muh subversion...but then they end up going the bland safe route. Yay! the rebellion is back...with 5 people 

you wanted to have at least a whiff of something -challenging- to the audiences expectations? forget all the bullshit nonsensical story decisions that didn't matter at all in the end_and have Rey join Kylo. (for example)

at least _that_ would've been something interesting.

the -safeness- with which this movie employs its faux subversion makes it clear that the studio had strict oversight. It just wanted to present itself as a movie that didn't.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Braiyan (Dec 29, 2017)

You know, when I saw that this movie was titled "The Last Jedi", I was hoping they were not going to go with the most obvious interpretation of that title. Maybe Luke forsakes the ways of the Jedi like Ahsoka did. Maybe Rey gets convinced by Kylo to go to the Dark Side, leaving Luke and Finn to try saving her in Episode 9. Maybe Luke himself fell into the Dark Side while trapped on the island, and no longer considered himself worthy of the title. Maybe Luke guides Rey into forsaking the ways of the Jedi while training her (and in this scenario he *actually *trains her).
But no, instead we get Luke dying, right after trolling Kylo with a fake... 
If they were going to go down that route, why not just have Luke die in person, taking down as much of the First Order with him?


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 29, 2017)

The World said:


> lol no he wasn't


Oh, so where was the fan-made retcon that establishes he joined the First Order willingly, rather than being taken from his family at an age too young to remember his family, and raised with only his designation instead of a name?


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Braiyan said:


> You know, when I saw that this movie was titled "The Last Jedi", I was hoping they were not going to go with the most obvious interpretation of that title. Maybe Luke forsakes the ways of the Jedi like Ahsoka did. Maybe Rey gets convinced by Kylo to go to the Dark Side, leaving Luke and Finn to try saving her in Episode 9. Maybe Luke himself fell into the Dark Side while trapped on the island, and no longer considered himself worthy of the title. Maybe Luke guides Rey into forsaking the ways of the Jedi while training her (and in this scenario he *actually *trains her).
> But no, instead we get Luke dying, right after trolling Kylo with a fake...
> If they were going to go down that route, why not just have Luke die in person, taking down as much of the First Order with him?



I think this is a fair point, but if he died in person, it would've been too reminiscent of Obi Wan's death...which it already kind of was. I was nervous when he started to lower his guard as I didn't want Luke to die. Then when it turned out he wasn't dead, I was relieved. Then when he vanished into the force, it was executed in a way that made it both tear jerking and heart warming. His staring at the sunset just made the scene a lot more beautiful than tragic, in my opinion. He wasn't killed as much as he gave his life...and yes, I know that's a weird distinction.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 29, 2017)

Braiyan said:


> You know, when I saw that this movie was titled "The Last Jedi", I was hoping they were not going to go with the most obvious interpretation of that title. Maybe Luke forsakes the ways of the Jedi like Ahsoka did. Maybe Rey gets convinced by Kylo to go to the Dark Side, leaving Luke and Finn to try saving her in Episode 9. Maybe Luke himself fell into the Dark Side while trapped on the island, and no longer considered himself worthy of the title. Maybe Luke guides Rey into forsaking the ways of the Jedi while training her (and in this scenario he *actually *trains her).
> But no, instead we get Luke dying, right after trolling Kylo with a fake...
> If they were going to go down that route, why not just have Luke die in person, taking down as much of the First Order with him?



disney says 'fuck logic'


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## Jake CENA (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I think this is a fair point, but if he died in person, it would've been too reminiscent of Obi Wan's death...which it already kind of was. I was nervous when he started to lower his guard as I didn't want Luke to die. Then when it turned out he wasn't dead, I was relieved. Then when he vanished into the force, it was executed in a way that made it both tear jerking and heart warming. His staring at the sunset just made the scene a lot more beautiful than tragic, in my opinion. He wasn't killed as much as he gave his life...and yes, I know that's a weird distinction.



you really are clueless and fail to realize that it was the same shit like what happened in Rouge One, where Jyn and Cassian die while staring at the explosion caused by the death star? 

its stupid. they don't have any reason to kill Luke in that weak ass manner.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> you really are clueless and fail to realize that it was the same shit like what happened in Rouge One, where Jyn and Cassian die while staring at the explosion caused by the death star?
> 
> its stupid. they don't have any reason to kill Luke in that weak ass manner.



Okay, I'll spell this out for you. Luke dies staring at a sunset. This is meaningful because his journey began in the original movie with him staring into the sunset. The difference is in the first film it was longingly. In this film its with contentment. It bookends his entire character journey. Did you seriously not get that? One of the most iconic images of the original is of him staring into the sunset. Yoda even kind of reminds us with the "You're still staring at the stars" line.

"Rogue One" has nothing to do with that and it's highly unlikely the writer and director of TLJ even knew of that ending.

Don't get snarky with me dude...I'm trying not to be an asshole here (key word, trying). I want a legit conversation or debate, not just trolling or careless snarking, but if you're going to throw shade at me, you're also going to need to know how basic storytelling through a visual medium works.


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## Turrin (Dec 29, 2017)

The arguments for why TLJ are bad imo all come down to the fact that the fandom was expecting TLJ to parallel Empire. Since it was the second movie they were expecting it to be the best of the new Trilogy and to get some expect reveal about Rey or Snoke to mirror the Darth-Vader reveal. But imo Rian/Disney intentionally subverted this expectation making it seem in the initial act that it was going to mirror Empire, but in reality making it mirror Return of the Jedi. That's also why most people feel like the first Act of TLJ is the strongest, because it most closely mirrored their expectations, but then when it takes that left turn and starts mirroring Return, they become disappointed. 

Realistically speaking TLJ is not the best Star-Wars movie ever, it has it's strength and weaknesses, but that makes it very much like Return. People complain because TLJ didn't explain Snoke's origins or the source of it's power before having him unceremoniously killed off by Snoke, but the same is true of the Return. The Emperor is killed off by Vader w/o the movie offering almost any character arc of information on him, and he doesn't really get to do much besides taunting Luke, the same way Snoke taunts Rey. People complain because the movie offers no real further details on the mystery of Rey's origins just citing her as a nobody, but Return didn't go any deeper into the Skywalker mythos then Empire did, the only major reveal about Luke occurred in Empire, that Vader was his father, and as I said before TLJ isn't meant to mirror Empire, it mirrors Return. People complain because Luke skywalker dies off and becomes a force Ghost in this film, but Return also had a beloved master in the form of Yoda die off becoming a force Ghost instead of continuing to be an active living member of the Rebellion. People complain because the Canto Bight stuff was a bit weak and meandering, but I'd say this mirrors pretty well with the Ewok bullshit from Return, and actually I'd take Canto Bight's plot flaws over the Ewok nonsense any day of the week. While at the same time TLJ had some pretty awesome stuff too, just like Return did; awesome fight between Rey/Ren and Red-Guards; Luke vs Ren, and so on, similar to the final battle between Darth and Luke at the end of Return. Also had some good space battles again similar to the destruction of the Death-Star in Return.

The bottom line is TLJ is not terrible it's just more on par with the quality of Return, rather then Empire, and people expect this to be Empire and are now disappointed. People were less disappointed with TFA because they expected a New-Hope and they got it. I believe people will end up loving IX and have their expectations blown away, because they will be expecting the quality of Return and most likely IX will be the movie to mirror Empire. 

----

And also anyone saying that the Prequels are better then TLJ or TFA, I can't even take seriously. As I said these two movies are on par with the quality of Return and a New Hope, both of which are better then the Prequels, in the case of Episode I and II, they are far far better. 

I think there is a discussion that can be had about which movie is better Return or TLJ, and conversely which is better New-Hope or TFA; and I could see the ranking of all four of those movies being swapped around depending on what each person individually values, but the prequels are not even in this discussion. Just like I don't think there should be any discussion need to acknowledge that Empire is still the best of the movies, until hopefully IX comes out and we have a debate.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Turrin said:


> The arguments for why TLJ are bad imo all come down to the fact that the fandom was expecting TLJ to parallel Empire. Since it was the second movie they were expecting it to be the best of the new Trilogy and to get some expect reveal about Rey or Snoke to mirror the Darth-Vader reveal. But imo Rian/Disney intentionally subverted this expectation making it seem in the initial act that it was going to mirror Empire, but in reality making it mirror Return of the Jedi. That's also why most people feel like the first Act of TLJ is the strongest, because it most closely mirrored their expectations, but then when it takes that left turn and starts mirroring Return, they become disappointed.
> 
> Realistically speaking TLJ is not the best Star-Wars movie ever, it has it's strength and weaknesses, but that makes it very much like Return. People complain because TLJ didn't explain Snoke's origins or the source of it's power before having him unceremoniously killed off by Snoke, but the same is true of the Return. The Emperor is killed off by Vader w/o the movie offering almost any character arc of information on him, and he doesn't really get to do much besides taunting Luke, the same way Snoke taunts Rey. People complain because the movie offers no real further details on the mystery of Rey's origins just citing her as a nobody, but Return didn't go any deeper into the Skywalker mythos then Empire did, the only major reveal about Luke occurred in Empire, that Vader was his father, and as I said before TLJ isn't meant to mirror Empire, it mirrors Return. People complain because Luke skywalker dies off and becomes a force Ghost in this film, but Return also had a beloved master in the form of Yoda die off becoming a force Ghost instead of continuing to be an active living member of the Rebellion. People complain because the Canto Bight stuff was a bit weak and meandering, but I'd say this mirrors pretty well with the Ewok bullshit from Return, and actually I'd take Canto Bight's plot flaws over the Ewok nonsense any day of the week. While at the same time TLJ had some pretty awesome stuff too, just like Return did; awesome fight between Rey/Ren and Red-Guards; Luke vs Ren, and so on, similar to the final battle between Darth and Luke at the end of Return. Also had some good space battles again similar to the destruction of the Death-Star in Return.
> 
> ...



Good points. Yeah, its flaws do mirror the "Return of the Jedi". The Canto Bight stuff didn't bug me as much as the Ewoks because it didn't really consume the entire movie. With that said though, Ewoks...like them or not...have become an iconic race in the Star Wars lore and I adored those little f@ckers as a kid. I don't think I'll remember the Canto Bight stuff in time, while for better or worse, I'll remember the Ewoks.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> "Rogue One" has nothing to do with that and it's highly unlikely the writer and director of TLJ even knew of that ending.



How can you say that both of them are not aware of the same ending? They were being supervised by Disney.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> How can you say that both of them are not aware of the same ending? They were being supervised by Disney.



So you think the same Disney executive told Rian Johnson, Gareth Edwards and the writers to have the exact same ending...even though the endings are not really that alike? The movies shared different writers and directors. Just because they share the same studio does not mean the filmmakers themselves worked together.

Plus, "Rogue One" has an ending that's actually very common in movies, where the characters stare into their deaths with dignity. Luke wasn't killed by the sunset. He was just staring at it as he died, in a way to provide closure for his life journey.

Edit: While Disney presumably provides guidelines and rules, they're not really THAT creatively involved. After all, they let Gareth Edwards do what he wanted...until production had wrapped and they decided they didn't like his version- which would've included the same ending. They also seem to have given JJ Abrams and Johnson a certain amount of freedom, as long as they fit their guidelines. 

Of course, they've certainly meddled, but right now all evidence points to Johnson being the architect behind Luke's fate...or have you already forgotten the interviews with Mark Hamill that the detractors love taking out of context? Johnson had nothing to do with "Rogue One"...unless he did and I've yet to hear about it.


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## Turrin (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Good points. Yeah, its flaws do mirror the "Return of the Jedi". The Canto Bight stuff didn't bug me as much as the Ewoks because it didn't really consume the entire movie. With that said though, Ewoks...like them or not...have become an iconic race in the Star Wars lore and I adored those little f@ckers as a kid. I don't think I'll remember the Canto Bight stuff in time, while for better or worse, I'll remember the Ewoks.


The Porgs and Probably that horse creature will be the big popular animals from TLJ.


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## NW (Dec 29, 2017)

Turrin said:


> I think there is a discussion that can be had about which movie is better Return or TLJ, and conversely which is better New-Hope or TFA; and I could see the ranking of all four of those movies being *swapped around depending on what each person individually values*, but *the prequels are not even in this discussion*. Just like I don't think there should be any discussion need to acknowledge that Empire is still the best of the movies, until hopefully IX comes out and we have a debate.


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## U mad bro (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I actually agree with you that now, they will play Episode 9 as safely as possible. Most blockbusters are not going to want to take risks anyway and "Empire Strikes Back" wasn't very well received when it first came out for going against fans expectations- which probably lead to a lot of the problems which plagued "Return of the Jedi". But that doesn't mean these films shouldn't experiment or take risks or shouldn't be praised for it. This is part of why I can't stand the fandom though. They insist they don't like "TLJ" because they don't think it's a good movie and that's fair. Arguments can certainly be made why the film is bad, mediocre, uneven, whatever. Any film, no matter how acclaimed or beloved, is not above criticism. Yet these arguments (at least to me) have been mostly dogshit because they tend to fall back on the attempts at doing something new, like Luke force projecting. Or they will seemingly forget that while yes, there are serious contrivances in TLJ or bad writing, the original trilogy was not above that. They simply don't realize that as a kid, their brains didn't register the cheesy dialogue, the dumb character moves or lack of continuity and nostalgia keeps them from confronting these flaws.
> 
> And I tried watching the video, but gave up when he started saying there was diversity in the original trilogy. While it certainly pushes boundaries for its time, having a token black character or a token female in a sea of white males does not= diversity. While I agree SJW's can be problematic to the point of being trolls, they aren't worse than their counter-trolls who seem to hate that a female and a black guy are the leads of this movie. My brain is still hurting from that one guy attacking the movie because "Holdo was an SJW". For that alone, I think the back-lash here is more of a bandwagon than actual criticism. People like saying "SJW" and probably have a streak of racism or misogyny within them, so throw out the buzzwords because it's the 'cool thing to do'. I personally don't think half of them don't even understand what an SJW is.
> 
> Let me ask you this, would you have liked "TLJ" is Rey was a male? Or Finn was white? All of the problems surrounding the characters would still exist. People are just jumping on this bandwagon because they now want an excuse to beat up on the movie.


If you watched the video you would have seen he legit thought Finn makes for a better protagonist than Rey. He didn't even really bash diversity. He bashed the fact the characters are mainly trash. Rey is uninteresting. Which is true in fact her who plot was a distraction and the uninteresting part of the movie.


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 29, 2017)

Turrin said:


> At no point does Snoke indicate that he wants someone who is powerful with both Light and Dark-sides of the force, or someone balanced. Snoke's whole thing w/ Ben is he wanted him to kill off the Light in him, which is why he made such a big deal out of Kylo killing Han and why he talks about how the downfall of the empire was that Vader failed to kill Luke.
> 
> The reason Snoke talks about the Light side of the force, is because he's trying to learn from the mistakes of Sidious. Sidious believed that light had been completely extinguished from Anakin and that the pull of the Light couldn't be as strong as the pull of the Dark. Sidious ultimately fails by underestimating the pull of the Light and Anakin betraying him to save Luke. Snoke acknowledges the pull of the Light in Ben and thus wants him to kill it off, warning him that this is why Vader failed. It's not about balance for Snoke it's about elimination of the Light.
> 
> ...



“Kylo Ren was the embodiment of conflict. The dark warrior, whose blood flowed with the legacy of some of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in galactic , represented a focal point between the dark side and the light, a balance that made him a target of Supreme Leader Snoke so Ren's powers could be used to further the ambitions of the First Order.”

The wiki says this 

Killing Han was apart of his dark side training remember under Luke he mastered the light side of the force , in this trilogy we are seeing Ren trying to break bonds and kill his family members to grow stronger in the dark side to balance them out 

Anakin and Sideous made the same mistake as the Jedi they only focused on one side of the force and the problem with Vader in addition to being unbalanced he was way too emotional and sentimental which Snoke also attributes to his defeat from Rey , Snoke says “ you are unbalanced “ we also see they making a note to bring up the “Prime Jedi” my guess is this person was completely balanced and over time the Jedi and Sith went away from that and only focused on one side of the force 

Here’s the problem with that Sideous was still fully capable in combat , we see how broken and injured Snoke was and we also see his projection looks completely different than his physical body shown in TLJ , 

I think Kylo will start as the big bad only for Snoke to reveal himself in the seconds half on the movie and with that we will get Rey’s heritage and true background as well as Snoke’s and we will see Rey was a dark side user who was turner  light and Kylo was a light side user turned dark and because Rey will be completely able to tap into both sides completely having gone full dark before and now fully in the light fighting to protect the resistance she will overcome Kylo and sacrifice herself to defeat Snoke’s true form just like Vader did


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## Eliyua23 (Dec 29, 2017)

Turrin said:


> The arguments for why TLJ are bad imo all come down to the fact that the fandom was expecting TLJ to parallel Empire. Since it was the second movie they were expecting it to be the best of the new Trilogy and to get some expect reveal about Rey or Snoke to mirror the Darth-Vader reveal. But imo Rian/Disney intentionally subverted this expectation making it seem in the initial act that it was going to mirror Empire, but in reality making it mirror Return of the Jedi. That's also why most people feel like the first Act of TLJ is the strongest, because it most closely mirrored their expectations, but then when it takes that left turn and starts mirroring Return, they become disappointed.
> 
> Realistically speaking TLJ is not the best Star-Wars movie ever, it has it's strength and weaknesses, but that makes it very much like Return. People complain because TLJ didn't explain Snoke's origins or the source of it's power before having him unceremoniously killed off by Snoke, but the same is true of the Return. The Emperor is killed off by Vader w/o the movie offering almost any character arc of information on him, and he doesn't really get to do much besides taunting Luke, the same way Snoke taunts Rey. People complain because the movie offers no real further details on the mystery of Rey's origins just citing her as a nobody, but Return didn't go any deeper into the Skywalker mythos then Empire did, the only major reveal about Luke occurred in Empire, that Vader was his father, and as I said before TLJ isn't meant to mirror Empire, it mirrors Return. People complain because Luke skywalker dies off and becomes a force Ghost in this film, but Return also had a beloved master in the form of Yoda die off becoming a force Ghost instead of continuing to be an active living member of the Rebellion. People complain because the Canto Bight stuff was a bit weak and meandering, but I'd say this mirrors pretty well with the Ewok bullshit from Return, and actually I'd take Canto Bight's plot flaws over the Ewok nonsense any day of the week. While at the same time TLJ had some pretty awesome stuff too, just like Return did; awesome fight between Rey/Ren and Red-Guards; Luke vs Ren, and so on, similar to the final battle between Darth and Luke at the end of Return. Also had some good space battles again similar to the destruction of the Death-Star in Return.
> 
> ...



I don’t see it that way for the simple fact this story is following the journey of two powerful young force users not one , The OT , was the story solely of the development and journey of light side Luke , while in this trilogy it is about the journey of Rey fighting in the side of the light and Kylo fighting in the side of the Dark , OT Vader unlike Ren was a full grown man who was already set as a character we know his motivation what he has done and like Luke in this film he had lived a full life and was nothing more as a guide and sacrifical lamb for Ren and Rey , now had OT developed Leia on the level of Ren and Rey I could see a point to me both characters mirror both Anakin and Luke’s journey 

Ren mirrors Anakin in that he was a talented light side user who abounded his training with the light side of the force to seek a greater power beyond that of a Jedi 

Rey mirrors Anakin in the fact she seems to be lowborn/“creation” of the force who seems to be infact the chosen one , we also like Anakin  see her as a child 

Rey mirrors Luke in the fact she connects with Han Solo and has her trusted swashbuckling friend in Rey is going on a hero journey and seeks out training from a reknown Jedi Master in Luke Skywalker 

Ren mirrors Luke in that he is a high born two parents that were high ranking officials one being a force sensitive , so like Luke he can attribute his power to his parentage and thru the bloodline of the Skywalker 

To me this is the trilogy that brings all of the other 6 movies together and will show is everyone in the past got it wrong it is trying to show us a scope beyond Sith/Jedi , Anakin/Luke , Light/Dark 

So agree the huge major reveal will
Be at the end in 9 instead of 8 and that’s mainly because unlike in Empire you had another young force user in Kylo Ren you had to spend time to develop so it makes sense to take care of him now then take care of Rey the more important character in the end 

As for how the movies stack up Empire thus far is the best but each trilogy had a movie I really loved Empire/Revenge of The Sith , a movie That was very good but had some parts I didn’t like Phantom Menace/New Hope the problem with the Prequels it had one of the worst movies ever made sandwiched in between with Attack of the clones which really ruined the prequel legacy , despite giving us great fights and great characters like Mace Windu , Obi - Wan Kenobi , Count Dooku , and Darth Maul , as for these two so far they have been very good just waiting on that Empire Strikes Back


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> If you watched the video you would have seen he legit thought Finn makes for a better protagonist than Rey. He didn't even really bash diversity. He bashed the fact the characters are mainly trash. Rey is uninteresting. Which is true in fact her who plot was a distraction and the uninteresting part of the movie.



Is that really SJW related? Because I remember when TFA was initially promoting Finn as the main character and the anti-SJW crowd (whatever they're called) were bitching about them casting a black guy as the lead and how everything was 'too politically correct' for that reason. He even pointed that SJW's freak out about race diversity as much as they do gender diversity...so if Finn was the protagonist, people would still be calling it "SJW bullshit".

And if the characters are poorly written or Rey is a boring protagonist, that has NOTHING to do with her being a woman or Finn being black. They don't even make her gender or his race a part of the story. Rey could have easily been a male and her character wouldn't be any more or less interesting. People who whine about this shit seem to be dealing with their own issues with sexism or racism, which is why it's so revolting when people hide behind the 'SJW' shit.


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

Bluebeard said:


> What happened to this being a flop?



It still is by Disney's estimates. They had conservatively put TLJ at least $1.9 billion in profit, not simply revenue. Remember, Rogue One's production costs were at least $265 million, and another $250 to 260 million in marketing. Total domestic gross for that was roughly $1 billion. TLJ will at least be similar if not more than that.

And from what we know, its flopping hard in China.

So yeah, this is a disaster for Disney insofar that its nowhere approaching what they wanted.


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## Ennoea (Dec 29, 2017)

Yeah anyone who goes straight to race or sex over a criticism needs to get over it. There's black people in space. And Asians.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 29, 2017)

I do not wish to ask the same question again, but is anyone beyond me displeased at the negative and cynical tone that thsi film took toward the force (i.e., that an organized group of force users will inevitably cause on of their members to turn to the dark side)?


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## Skaddix (Dec 29, 2017)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not wish to ask the same question again, but is anyone beyond me displeased at the negative and cynical tone that thsi film took toward the force (i.e., that an organized group of force users will inevitably cause on of their members to turn to the dark side)?



I agree its dumb sheesh the Jedi Order had its flaws sure but it did its job for a 1000 Generations (KENOBI) which is 20,000 Years. No organization on Earth has lasted that long and been in anyway effective, I think Judaism is probably the oldest group and they have what 3000 years? It has flaws but most organizations get corrupted over the long term.


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## DemonDragonJ (Dec 29, 2017)

Skaddix said:


> I agree its dumb sheesh the Jedi Order had its flaws sure but it did its job for a 1000 Generations (KENOBI) which is 20,000 Years. No organization on Earth has lasted that long and been in anyway effective, I think Judaism is probably the oldest group and they have what 3000 years? It has flaws but most organizations get corrupted over the long term.



Luke's new Jedi order had not been around for very long before Kylo Ren turned evil, so it does seem very harsh compared to the original Jedi order. In the original expanded universe, Luke's new Jedi order was actually quite successful, outside of rare exceptions, such as Kyp Durron and Jacen Solo, the former of whom only temporarily turned to the dark side before returning to the light, so this new continuity is especially depressing compared to the previous continuity.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## U mad bro (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> Is that really SJW related? Because I remember when TFA was initially promoting Finn as the main character and the anti-SJW crowd (whatever they're called) were bitching about them casting a black guy as the lead and how everything was 'too politically correct' for that reason. He even pointed that SJW's freak out about race diversity as much as they do gender diversity...so if Finn was the protagonist, people would still be calling it "SJW bullshit".
> 
> And if the characters are poorly written or Rey is a boring protagonist, that has NOTHING to do with her being a woman or Finn being black. They don't even make her gender or his race a part of the story. Rey could have easily been a male and her character wouldn't be any more or less interesting. People who whine about this shit seem to be dealing with their own issues with sexism or racism, which is why it's so revolting when people hide behind the 'SJW' shit.


The video was poorly named because he didn't even spend time bashing sjw concepts constantly. His main point was the story was ass and star wars does have a history of diversity. In fact his main point was the movie spent more time shilling the mary sue down our throats than telling a proper flushed out story. The only real sjw issue he illustrated was that Kathleen Kennedy the person from disney in charge has a extreme feminist stance and completely controls the film firing anyone who doesn't agree with her ideas. He said that is fine but at least tell a good story. Then he goes on to explain Finn has the best character arcs in the films.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 29, 2017)

Thorin said:


> so is TPM better than this movie?


lemme put it this way: TLJ and TPM have been the only 2 Star Wars movies i ever left the theater confused.

TPM because i didn't know if I liked it. I didn't.

TLJ because i didn't know if what i had just watched made any sense. It didn't.
(every scene is shit!)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ennoea (Dec 29, 2017)

Can people stop saying we all went in expecting Empire. We didn't. The critics kept throwing around Empire Strikes Back. But I did expect a quality movie which I didn't get. Force Awakens was pretty lame aswell but atleast the action set pieces were good. This didn't even have that. People acting like this is some subversive game changer. It's a poorly plotted lame blockbuster.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Skaddix (Dec 29, 2017)

RAGING BONER said:


> lemme put it this way: TLJ and TPM have been the only 2 Star Wars movies i ever left the theater confused.
> 
> TPM because i didn't know if I liked it. I didn't.
> 
> ...



TPM is better it has the Maul Fight at least and it doesn't absolutely destroy the end of the ROTJ both the celebration and Luke throwing down his Saber instead of striking down his father. TLJ obliterates it with nuclear fire.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 29, 2017)

Duel of Fates!


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## Gunners (Dec 29, 2017)

My issue is I don't like laziness and a lack of creativity. Read some shit about ''We didn't go into Snoke's back story because it would have been out of place bringing it up shortly before he died".

Is he not supposed to be Kylo's mentor? Seems like the sort of thing that could be mentioned as their bond is being developed. Would have added more weight to Kylo striking him down.

Off the top of my head, it would have made more sense for them to skip the looking for the hacker malarkey. Jump straight to the FO laying siege to the rebels and work the characters around that. Kylo would be conflicted over crushing his mother and have Snoke counsel him through that. Finn and Poe would be directly involved in holding back their force as opposed to planet hopping to no avail. Rey and Luke's story would remain the same although I'd change Luke's send off.

Think the chase and jumping around hurt the film the most. Too much time was wasted. Something that comes to my mind is Poe's talk with that admiral; for me, jokes should be treated like grace notes in the sense that the content that needs to be there first. If you're going to have a conversation between the villain and heroes, why not have Ben try and negotiate a surrender with his mother?


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

U mad bro said:


> The video was poorly named because he didn't even spend time bashing sjw concepts constantly. His main point was the story was ass and star wars does have a history of diversity. In fact his main point was the movie spent more time shilling the mary sue down our throats than telling a proper flushed out story. The only real sjw issue he illustrated was that Kathleen Kennedy the person from disney in charge has a extreme feminist stance and completely controls the film firing anyone who doesn't agree with her ideas. He said that is fine but at least tell a good story. Then he goes on to explain Finn has the best character arcs in the films.



Then he shouldn't have clickbaited with the title and 'shilling the mary sue' seems to be a jab at casting a female lead. I actually do understand the 'Rey=Mary Sue' argument, even if I don't really agree with it. But you can say the exact same thing about Luke, even if I do agree Rey is closer to the definition than Luke is. At best, Rey= a less nuanced Luke, but I doubt she was made overpowered and scrubbed of her flaws just because she's a woman and Kennedy is a feminist. Assuming such might even be a little sexist, as you're assuming that being a staunch feminist effects ones judgment. Furthermore, Kennedy has given most of the directors a lot of leeway, so I personally don't think she was responsible for the core of Rey's character. The problems with "Rogue One" and the Han Solo flick (behind the scenes) stemmed less from the female characterizations and more from the films not feeling 'Star Wars-y enough'. Luke and Rey are supposed to be wish fulfillment characters and so are the center of their universes in their debut films, although I think "Empire Strikes Back" did a better job of showing Luke's flaws and weaknesses than "The Last Jedi" did for Rey. 

And once again, the history of diversity in the original trilogy is still being a token character and minorities are tired of being shoehorned in those kinds of roles, which is why the casting in this new trilogy was kind of a big deal. If anything, I think TFA should be criticized for the bait-and-switch marketing with Finn's character...and I do agree Finn had the better arc and I do wish they switched it around. I think it would've been interesting seeing Finn as the hero, with Rey still being the prodigy, but as a supporting character. Still, Finn might be more interesting, but I like Rey enough and don't mind her as the protagonist. To each his own though. 



DemonDragonJ said:


> I do not wish to ask the same question again, but is anyone beyond me displeased at the negative and cynical tone that thsi film took toward the force (i.e., that an organized group of force users will inevitably cause on of their members to turn to the dark side)?



I don't understand this complaint. I didn't get this impression at all, although I have heard theories that the force requires the dark side to have balance. It's been a theory long before the original trilogy began. Still, I never was under the impression that a solo person will inevitably turn dark and even so, couldn't you say the same thing about the prequels...or the original trilogy? I guess any group will inevitably produce a rotten apple. But how else will the movie get any conflict? It's a dramatic ploy if anything, as fallen angels are a favorite staple of fiction (ie, Vader).


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

Jesus christ this guy has to be DDJ's brother or something

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Fang said:


> Jesus christ this guy has to be DDJ's brother or something



I still don't know who you're talking about.


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## Mider T (Dec 29, 2017)

Episode IX release date has been pushed up to May 2019.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

lol...I wonder if they're blaming the December release date for the box office disappointment...I actually prefer Star Wars being a December release, as December always feels a little classier than the Summer.


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

MartialHorror said:


> I still don't know who you're talking about.



Sure you don't.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Fang said:


> Sure you don't.



My apologies. I forgot that you're trolling.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fang (Dec 29, 2017)

Yeah you go ahead and believe that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 29, 2017)

Fang said:


> Yeah you go ahead and believe that.



OK. I will.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Zef (Dec 30, 2017)

Ennoea said:


> Yeah anyone who goes straight to race or sex over a criticism needs to get over it. There's black people in space. And Asians.


The issue isn't the lack of POC, it's the way these films treat their characters.

*Twice* now has Finn been beaten, and humiliated by a female character.
First it was Rey in TFA smacking him with a stick just for running. Then in TLJ we get Rose electrocuting him.

With all the SJW shit Disney is peddling you would think someone in their board meeting would tell  them it isn't a good idea to beat and tase the black dude for slapstick humor.

But Kathleen Kennedy's push for diversity only extends to creating a Mary Sue female character. 
All other minority characters are used for gag B plots like Rose & Finn's role in this film, and KK could give less of a shit because she has her self-insert female lead.


But I digress, *Twice* now have they used the plot of Finn knowing the ins and outs of a FO vessel because he used to clean its toilets.

Ignoring the absurdity of Finn conveniently having been placed on all these FO ships, they literally used his janitorial duties *twice* as both humor, and a plot device to explain how he knows where he's going in these films.

Finn is a walking talking stereotype of the funny black guy.

I'm not even going to get into the bait, and switch they pulled with TFA or how they introduced this troll looking bitch just to keep him away from Rey while they make Reylo a thing.

Fuck these movies, and fuck KK. That's all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 30, 2017)

storyboard concept art for Rey and Finn

Reactions: Funny 6 | Winner 3


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## Rasendori (Dec 30, 2017)

Finn wasn't even acting well this movie.

I don't understand the Rose hate. She did a great job with a subplot that looks like it was written by a 12 year old. 

That being said YES, criticism of diversity is bullshit. We need more POC in film, but more importantly in the writing room. The reason we have all these stereotypes is because they're all written by old white men who only understand poc through said stereotype. Effort for inclusion is not enough, we need quality.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 30, 2017)

Just saw it

So spoilers ahead 

First why Leia is still alive? I mean should have killed her off because you know.

Secondly the original premise of the movie was good, but the way it was diverted to the planet in the end is what got to me. They should have followed through. 

So Snoke was nothing but fodder ?   

Sorry Kylo as the big bad i cannot take serious after the way Luke played him and how nervous he was facing him. 

Overall they wanted to do too much and the execution didn’t pan out


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 30, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> Finn wasn't even acting well this movie.
> 
> I don't understand the Rose hate. She did a great job with a subplot that looks like it was written by a 12 year old.
> 
> That being said YES, criticism of diversity is bullshit. We need more POC in film, but more importantly in the writing room. The reason we have all these stereotypes is because they're all written by old white men who only understand poc through said stereotype. Effort for inclusion is not enough, we need quality.



KK is a white woman tho.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Zef (Dec 30, 2017)

Huey Freeman said:


> First why Leia is still alive? I mean should have killed her off because you know.



They probably kept her alive because they thought killing her off would be disrespectful to Carrie.

But they're only delaying the inevitable. The actor is dead so unless the plan is to recast Leia then this was a stupid move by RJ.

It's like he knew he wasn't going to direct episode 9 so he decided to make as many stupid plot decisions as he could get away with.

Now we have an alive Leia with a dead Carrie, and no suitable villain because Snoke is dead and Kylo is a pussy.


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## Rasendori (Dec 30, 2017)

Seto Kaiba said:


> KK is a white woman tho.



Yeh but she ain't a writer.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Dec 30, 2017)

Rasendori said:


> Finn wasn't even acting well this movie.
> 
> I don't understand the Rose hate. She did a great job with a subplot that looks like it was written by a 12 year old.
> 
> That being said YES, criticism of diversity is bullshit. We need more POC in film, but more importantly in the writing room. The reason we have all these stereotypes is because they're all written by old white men who only understand poc through said stereotype. Effort for inclusion is not enough, we need quality.


The reason you had those was because there was no Internet and certain studios had to target the dumbest people...

Also California white man in LA obsessing about movies had plenty of POC exposure. 

The market daddy takes care of everything and in reality barely anyone cares about your crusade.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 30, 2017)

damage control for the damage control


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## Jotun (Dec 30, 2017)

Even more suspect...

 Kappa


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## Mickey Mouse (Dec 30, 2017)

The Mouse succeeded where Sidious failed.

 Mickey is God Tier Force User.


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## Zef (Dec 30, 2017)

I can feel the sarcasm..


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 30, 2017)

The Man himself said it 



in other news


> Lucasfilm's _The Last Jedi _earned *$19 million on its third Friday, a drop of just 23% from last Friday’s $24m day-eight gross*. To wit, that’s a smaller “third Friday” drop than _Force Awakens _(-30%) and just slightly higher than _Rogue One _(-20%).


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2017)

Weiss said:


> The Man himself said it
> 
> 
> 
> in other news


to be clear i like TLJ overall, i enjoyed it and might watch it again, but lets not do this thing where we get invested in the financial performance of some corporation's money-spinning blockbuster product, it's like ten times sadder than being legit emotionally invested in corporate pro sports

i realise "the other side", i.e. people who really hated TLJ, are behaving in a really autistic way and cumming in their pants every time it looks like the receipts are dropping because that somehow validates their opinion - even though box office gross and artistic quality have nothing to do with each other - but you don't gotta join in and do the same thing lol they're embarrassing themselves


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> to be clear i like TLJ overall, i enjoyed it and might watch it again, but lets not do this thing where we get invested in the financial performance of some corporation's money-spinning blockbuster product, it's like ten times sadder than being legit emotionally invested in corporate pro sports
> 
> i realise "the other side", i.e. people who really hated TLJ, are behaving in a really autistic way and cumming in their pants every time it looks like the receipts are dropping because that somehow validates their opinion - even though box office gross and artistic quality have nothing to do with each other - but you don't gotta join in and do the same thing lol they're embarrassing themselves


People already have their opinions on the film beforehand.Money wasn't going to change that. I don't think reporting on the Success of the movie was done for validation . People just naturally want to see what they hate go down in flames.

And yeah-- the biggest franchise in film barely scratching a billion (after its 2 billion dollar predecessor) is pretty interesting to note.


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## Mider T (Dec 30, 2017)

This article includes alot of what I've been saying.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 30, 2017)

I (loosely) follow the box office of almost any 1B+ movie

you can call it a hobby

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 30, 2017)

No one said it was box office failure...simply that the numbers are soft besides usually the backlash doesn't fully hit to the next movie and Han Solo had plenty of problems of its own....Directors Fired, Acting Coach for Alden, Recasting, People not wanting this movie....etc.


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## Aduro (Dec 30, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> People already have their opinions on the film beforehand.Money wasn't going to change that. I don't think reporting on the Success of the movie was done for validation . People just naturally want to see what they hate go down in flames.


But there is a problem when people try and argue that a movie is bad by citing that it didn't make as much money rather than arguing that a movie didn't make money because its bad.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> People already have their opinions on the film beforehand.Money wasn't going to change that. I don't think reporting on the Success of the movie was done for validation . People just naturally want to see what they hate go down in flames.
> 
> And yeah-- the biggest franchise in film barely scratching a billion (after its 2 billion dollar predecessor) is pretty interesting to note.


are you one of the dudes that was doin this





Aduro said:


> rather than arguing that a movie didn't make money because its bad.


neither would make sense tbh plenty of bad movies make tons of money


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2017)

Weiss said:


> I (loosely) follow the box office of almost any 1B+ movie
> 
> you can call it a hobby


thats weird. ur weird. humans of late capitalism over here


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 30, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> are you one of the dudes that was doin this


Given the fact that Fang was providing box office updates  on a daily basis; I didnt need to. 


Lucaniel said:


> neither would make sense tbh plenty of bad movies make tons of money


I think it depends on public expectations. Giving a bad review to a Transformer movie won't raise any eyebrows. But I have noticed that bad reviews is beginning to impact anticipated films .


Aduro said:


> But there is a problem when people try and argue that a movie is bad by citing that it didn't make as much money rather than arguing that a movie didn't make money because its bad.


Money =/= Quality
Money = attention

And I for one is surprised that a Star Wars movie didn't garner enough.


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## Lucaniel (Dec 30, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> Given the fact that Fang was providing box office updates on a daily basis; I didnt need to.


he sacrificed himself for your hate 



the cross represents autism

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Atlas (Dec 30, 2017)

Lucaniel said:


> he sacrificed himself for your hate
> 
> 
> 
> the cross represents autism



Isn't that DDJ?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Jake CENA (Dec 30, 2017)

DDJ wearing a Jesus avatar is the funniest shit in these forums that happened this year

Reactions: Agree 1


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## U mad bro (Dec 30, 2017)

A lot of people hate the film because they generally disliked the film. I personally liked TFA and rogue one even more.  So no new film movie hate. I even tolerated the prequel. They were whatever. Come to think of it I am not even really that emotionally involved with star wars.  But I felt this movie was just that bad. I hate mediocre movies that people sheep over *coughs* gotg2 *coughs*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Dec 31, 2017)

Its down to 51%, it keeps getting down and down

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Its down to 51%, it keeps getting down and down


23% third Friday loss


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

~Gesy~ said:


> People already have their opinions on the film beforehand.Money wasn't going to change that. I don't think reporting on the Success of the movie was done for validation . People just naturally want to see what they hate go down in flames.
> 
> And yeah-- the biggest franchise in film barely scratching a billion (after its 2 billion dollar predecessor) is pretty interesting to note.



Disney expected it to hit $2 billion, so this is a debacle. Especially since they are now shitting themselves over the Han Solo movie.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

Fang said:


> Disney expected it to hit $2 billion


wrong


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

Weiss said:


> wrong



>Forbes is wrong

Nope.


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## RAGING BONER (Dec 31, 2017)

Fang said:


> Disney expected it to hit $2 billion, so this is a debacle. Especially since they are now shitting themselves over the *Han Solo movie*.


i wish i could say this shitshow would've damaged the brand like nothing before it...

but TLJ came out of nowhere to take the crown.


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

We'll see how 2018 will handle things


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 31, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

^When you sense cocaine on another ship


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 31, 2017)

> _Star Wars: The Last Jedi _crossed $500 million domestic on its 16th day of release, one day ahead of _Jurassic World _and just six days behind _Star Wars: The Force Awakens_. It has now earned $517.1m in North America in its first 17 days, ending the year as the year's biggest domestic grosser, safely ahead of _Beauty and the Beast _($504m). And by tomorrow, it'll be within spitting distance of the $532m domestic gross of _Rogue One: A Star Wars Story_ and $534m cume of _The Dark Knight _to be the sixth-biggest domestic earner of all time. With a $52.4m second Fri-Sun frame (and $65.6m over the holiday weekend), it fell just 26% from last weekend and snagged the second-smallest drop ever (behind _Rogue One_'s 22% drop) for the third weekend for a movie that opened above $100m over its initial Fri-Sun frame.
> 
> It essentially has another week of holiday play and then another week of relatively light competition (sorry _Insidious: The Last Key_) before 2018 really begins with _The Commuter_, _Paddington Kills_ and _Proud Mary_. With around $537 million by tomorrow, it if plays identically to both _Rogue One _and _The Force Awakens _from this point onward, it'll end its domestic run with $650-$670m in North America alone. So, if the math plays out (and if it survives MLK weekend it's pretty safe until Presidents Day weekend), it'll end up retaining 69-72% of _The Force Awakens_' domestic gross, right on par with _The Empire Strikes Back _(-32% from _Star Wars_) and _Attack of the Clones _(-30% from _The Phantom Menace_).
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Dec 31, 2017)

2 Billion no... 1.5 Billion is probably more accurate prediction.


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

"Sequels never make more than previous films---!"

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Catalyst75 (Dec 31, 2017)

Well, how about that.  Mark Hamill's own kids had cameos in "The Last Jedi" .


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## Orochibuto (Dec 31, 2017)

(The follow up to this tweet supposedly was "opposed by a multicultural group led by brave women." but I couldnt find the tweet screenshot)

CEO of Star Wars says SW doesnt need to appeal to male fans and dont owe them anything:





(The woman on black is the CEO of Star Wars)

Yeah but, if you say Star Wars has SJW or feminazi bullshit you either have brain damage or an alt-right troll, right?

Nope, there is no such thing as SJW or feminazi shit in star wars, Kathleen Kennedy doesnt has an agenda that she is forcing in SW at the expense of the franchise and fanbase. Its all made up!


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## Atlas (Dec 31, 2017)

Future of SW is looking bleak.


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## Jake CENA (Dec 31, 2017)

I told you guys! Its all about feminism. 

I AM ALWAYS RIGHT


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## Orochibuto (Dec 31, 2017)

Im done with SW, this is a choice I really did not wanted to make, but I cant take it anymore.

I was willing to pass this shit and keep with SW provided they at least had some subtlety with this shit.

But after this TLJ fiasco and KK going all out "Teh furz is female!" Im done, Im done.

I wont be watching the Han Solo movies (whose original directors got fired because they didnt bend over to KK precisely, which likely means it will be shit), Im not watching the Obi-Wan or Yoda movies. The only way I could watch them is if my friends and/or family push me to do it.

I may, MAY watch Episode IX, because despite all of this, Star Wars has meant so much to me that Im not sure I really cant bring myself to not see the grand finale of the main saga.

After this, Im done. I wont be watching any other SW movie as long as KK (ironic that kk in spanish literally means crap) is CEO.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## MartialHorror (Dec 31, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Im done with SW, this is a choice I really did not wanted to make, but I cant take it anymore.
> 
> I was willing to pass this shit and keep with SW provided they at least had some subtlety with this shit.
> 
> ...



The reason why people question whether you're an alt-right troll or have brain damage is because...why do you care? Is it really surprised that after decades of being relegated to 'love interest' or 'eye candy' that the industry is exploding with female protagonists? Or female characters put in positions of power? Even if she has an agenda, WHO THE F@CK CARES!? It's so easy to assume this shit about you because you take it so personally and lord it around, without really understanding what you're talking about. If Holdo, Leia or Rey were male characters, would that have fixed the movies problems? The thing is, nobody in these movies seem to care that these characters are female...in fact, the females don't seem to care that the male characters are male. Holdo calls Poe a hothead, but did she ever throw his gender at him? 

This is just like how people balked when called racist, just because they were complaining the main character being black (back when the marketing campaign presented Finn as the protagonist). It's an absurd amount of entitlement that needs to die.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 2


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

Rey is a male.

Bitch looks like a dude anyways.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

Rey looks cuter and more feminine in TLJ than in TFA IMO




> it fell just 26% from last weekend and snagged the second-smallest drop ever (behind _Rogue One_'s 22% drop) for the third weekend for a movie that opened above $100m over its initial Fri-Sun frame.





> Oh, and it dropped just 12% overseas this weekend.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

>Disney predicts $1.9 billion right before TLJ opened up in the box office
>Opening week numbers are awful
>Disney backpedals and claims $1.6 billion following that
>Second week numbers are terrible
>Disney backpedals again and claims $1.4 billion

State of /disney/ right now, JEWMANGI is giving TLJ the fight of its life and its nothing on Star Wars.


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

El oh el


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

where did that 69% drop from last weekend go


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

Fang said:


> >Disney predicts $1.9 billion right before TLJ opened up in the box office
> >Opening week numbers are awful
> >Disney backpedals and claims $1.6 billion following that
> >Second week numbers are terrible
> ...


fake news

how much bitcoins did Fang get for this post ?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

Same place every other bump goes with the post-Christmas weekend, you shill.

"I-it was totally planned for TLJ to do less than half of what TFA did in its first two weeks in almost a month."



Weiss said:


> fake news
> 
> how much bitcoins did Fang get for this post ?



Fluttershit pls, b8 better.


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## Mider T (Dec 31, 2017)

>Opening week numbers are awful

Lol fanfiction


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

Mider T said:


> >Opening week numbers are awful
> 
> Lol fanfiction



Compared to TFA they are.


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## Orochibuto (Dec 31, 2017)

Sadly it broke Rogue One numbers already, my hope for Disney to sack KK was for TLJ to have to go through the supreme shame of making less than a spinoff (which was a very real, albeit unlikely possibility)

Given it didnt happened, I dont see Disney taking such drastic actions.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

its gonna make 1.3+B at minimum, maybe 1.4+


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## Fang (Dec 31, 2017)

Weiss said:


> its gonna make 1.3+B at minimum, maybe 1.4+



lol


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## Jake CENA (Dec 31, 2017)

Why did they have to CGI Kylo Ren’s body?? 

A nerd like him doesn’t even lift 

I bet your ass that was Kane’s body they used lmao


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 31, 2017)

Jake CENA said:


> CGI Kylo Ren’s body


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> its gonna make 1.3+B at minimum, maybe 1.4+



There's still the Chinese market about to open in a week, and this is only week three of "The Last Jedi" being in theatres ("The Force Awakens" was in for 24 weeks).


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 1, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Katou (Jan 1, 2018)

Last Jedi is so mainstream now


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## Jake CENA (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


>



don't tell me you believe that was kylo's real body??


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2018)

Watching TFA now and I see how unwarranted some of the bitching is. Maz basically tells Rey about her parents just like Ren. 

And they hint at it super hard all the time.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

TFA is a masterpiece compared to TLJ. I had strong criticism for TFA, mostly Rey Mary Sue, Kylo made me roll my eyes. But aside that I enjoyed it, I liked it, it was Star Wars. TLJ I think is the first SW movie I can't honestly say I liked it, I just can't.

Had they treated Luke better and had I not to deal with the vomitive prospect of Kylo emo Severus Uchiha as final villain, I think I could honestly swallow everything else I disliked.


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2018)

>Apologizing for TFA



They can both be bad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> TFA is a masterpiece compared to TLJ. I had strong criticism for TFA, mostly Rey Mary Sue, Kylo made me roll my eyes. But aside that I enjoyed it, I liked it, it was Star Wars. TLJ I think is the first SW movie I can't honestly say I liked it, I just can't.
> 
> Had they treated Luke better and had I not to deal with the vomitive prospect of Kylo emo Severus Uchiha as final villain, I think I could honestly swallow everything else I disliked.


If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void. 

And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2018)

Watching this now Ren is trying to get it in with Ren even in this movie. He’s like so horny for her.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void.



Insert random reason to dismiss a comment automatically, just cause.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.



Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker, with the same potential as his father. Luke trained. Luke was only shown as really powerful in Episode 6 and within reason.

Not even close to "2 weeks ago I didn't even believed in The Force Rey" who defeats a Skywalker trained by both the big hero and the big bad, then defeats Luke Skywalker in combat and ends the movie with lifting a mountain of rocks without effort when Luke had problems with a X-Wing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 1, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void.
> 
> And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.


Luke contributed Jack to the Vader vs Kenobi duel and it was 3 years before he faced Vader. Luke is nothing like Rey.


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## Gilgamesh (Jan 1, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void.
> 
> And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.



If you liked TFA and TLJ you're opinion doesn't mean fuck all

And Luke unlike Rey actually got his ass kicked and look inferior and needed help


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Compared to TFA they are.


As they would be no matter what, for reasons already explained.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Not even EP III dared to treat Anakin Skywalker like KK is treating Rey.

The entire mythos of the chosen one was there, they spent 2 movies telling us how Anakin was going to be the most powerful force user ever.

George could had easily made Ep III Anakin be > Sidious and Yoda and it wouldn't had been a problem. Yet he didn't Anakin was still consistantly below the best of the best. Its almost a given Mary Sue will be the most powerful force user in the galaxy in EP IX.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Even if she has an agenda, WHO THE F@CK CARES!?



I don't believe you actually are stupid to not see the problem with this, so I will assume that you are just playing dumb. If you honestly believe this then it is clear you will just eat whatever the new movies throw at you and will just consider it a good.

It is one thing if you don't think KK has an agenda, and try to defend that position and argue from there. This shit?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't believe you actually are stupid to not see the problem with this, so I will assume that you are just playing dumb. If you honestly believe this then it is clear you will just eat whatever the new movies throw at you and will just consider it a good.
> 
> It is one thing if you don't think KK has an agenda, and try to defend that position and argue from there. This shit?



These are the types of 'Smoke and Mirrors' responses that show you're either being stupid or are sexist. I don't know if KK has an agenda or not, as it's still unclear how creatively involved she gets in these movies. But even if she does have some feminist agenda, you're naive if you think most filmmakers don't have some sort of an agenda. George Lucas  crammed in his anti-Bush administration agenda in the prequels, Cameron made a huge point of his environmentalist message in Avatar and they were FAR less subtle than the new Star Wars flicks. Filmmakers are always either sneaking, weaving or forcing their opinions in movies. Do you complain about all of those too? It's part of the auteur theory. Or do you really just hate feminism?

Also, you never answered my question. If all of the major female roles were male, how would it have made the movie any better?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

calling Rey a sue after she got utterly destroyed by Snoke is asinine hater talk

she wasnt even > Kylo like in TFA

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Rild (Jan 1, 2018)

Great film.

Solid 9/10.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Zef (Jan 1, 2018)

Lol, is this true?



Finn on his knees, and getting slapped in the face by the equivalent of a space fascist? 




And I read somewhere that RJ joked at the premier about leaving the character in a coma?



Disney can..

Reactions: Agree 3


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## U mad bro (Jan 1, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void.
> 
> And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.


Lol Luke got his hand chopped off fighting Vader that is not a mary sue. Only reason Vader didn't kill was because Luke was his son. Rey was fighting toe to toe against Crylo right off the bat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Mider T said:


> As they would be no matter what, for reasons already explained.



Your mental gymnastics are cute.


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2018)

I posted an article saying the same thjng


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Mider T is not a smart poster. Remember, Disney doesn't get more than 20% or so of the revenue overseas and TLJ is flopping in China hard and the Asia market in general.

Remember kids, when a side story film that is a numbered entry in the Star Wars films is matching the success of your latest main entry, that's not a good thing.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Lucaniel (Jan 1, 2018)

in a shocking twist, it turns out the rt audience score & other internet audience scoring sites which can be brigaded with 1-star votes aren't reflective of how TLJ is doing with the majority of people, and are largely reflective of how it's doing with mad nerds





> As you can see, there were a lot of respondents who signed up to review The Last Jedi and with Rotten Tomatoes, and a third of the respondents deleted their account or had their account deleted after registering. This suggests an effort was made to create a negative self-selecting bias because these new users chose to register with the site just to have their review counted in the overall Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic score for the title. There are some other issues with these polls – there’s no guarantee that the respondents actually watched the film and there’s also the ability for the same unique individuals to vote multiple times, and I could see in my data pull the same review pop up a few times or the same name pop up a few times.





> comScore surveys almost a thousand audience members in 20 markets immediately after they view the film, including *The Last Jedi*. So, while Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic showed audience scores in the 50s or lower, comScore showed a score almost at 90 which was in line with both *The Force Awakens *and *Rogue One*. comScore was kind enough to allow me to provide you with some of their exit polling data on these three films:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

>this shilling from the guy who thinks TLJ is good while word of mouth is literally killing its returns at the box office
>article uses the same unsubstantiated claim as Huffington "journalists" thinking some random guy messaging/emailing them and saying "Yo I hacked the scores" and takes it at face value as being the real deal

Rofl

also

>that ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) in the article listed tried to conflate the issue of TLJ with the fucking Ghostbusters reboot being a literal box office flop and bashed with it in his selective retarded cherry picking bias

Reactions: Like 5 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Score is legit - RT

"No way could there be people making accounts to talk about the most well known cinema series/franchise in history to voice their issues and score it low, that's impossible"

So to recap: Largest box office opening followed by the LARGEST AND WORST DROP OFF in box office history that is LITERALLY UNPRECEDENTED. There's a correlation here, most people hate this movie. They are not going to see a second, third, or fourth time like they did with most of the previous films.

Aggregate scores universally have this film in the negative or mixed at best. 

Stay mad, Sequel Trilogy & Disney Nu Wars apologists.

Reactions: Like 5 | Dislike 1


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Mider T is not a smart poster. Remember, Disney doesn't get more than 20% or so of the revenue overseas and TLJ is flopping in China hard and the Asia market in general.
> 
> Remember kids, when a side story film that is a numbered entry in the Star Wars films is matching the success of your latest main entry, that's not a good thing.


Wasn't it already it explained that China doesn't have the history with Star Wars that the rest of the world does?


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Wasn't it already it explained that China doesn't have the history with Star Wars that the rest of the world does?



>numbers for TFA are almost twice higher than that for TLJ
>does worse than R1 does in China

You are getting worse at this every day, dude.


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> >numbers for TFA are almost twice higher than that for TLJ
> >does worse than R1 does in China
> 
> You are getting worse at this every day, dude.


Again, for reasons already explained.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Again, for reasons already explained.



Again you are not intelligent. By your logic TFA wouldn't have the numbers it has in China or Rogue 1 for that matter as well with the equal level of unfamiliarity yet it does despite that. How obstinate can you be?


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## Mider T (Jan 1, 2018)

No.  Because China's market still had a small opening for TFA relative to the rest of the world.  It's not a given that any Star Wars movie would even be the biggest of the weekend in China.  Regardless, by the time the prequels came out China accepted western cinema, after watching they were able to watch the original trilogy so naturally those interested in Star Wars would be ready for new content with TFA.  It's not that hard to understand.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Mider T said:


> No.  Because China's market still had a small opening for TFA relative to the rest of the world.  It's not a given that any Star Wars movie would even be the biggest of the weekend in China.  Regardless, by the time the prequels came out China accepted western cinema, after watching they were able to watch the original trilogy so naturally those interested in Star Wars would be ready for new content with TFA.  It's not that hard to understand.



So you are brain-dead, gotcha. Let's recap:

TLJ has the advantage of the Chinese consumers and movie-goers getting familiar with the franchise at large through TFA and R1 and overly saturating the population with ads and marketing campaigns specifically for the Asian itch Disney wants. Despite this, TLJ is doing absolutely god awful compared to both films despite having a stronger marketing campaign from Disney in Asia over the last two years. Are you actually really stupid? Or just merely pretending to be?

You are totally idiotic here either way:

>TFA does better than TLJ despite the Chinese having next to zero familiarity with Star Wars in 2015
>R1 does better than TLJ despite the Chinese having only slight familiarity with Star Wars in 2016 and being a spin-off film
>TLJ does worse than both of its predecessors by a massive margin despite heavy familiarity with overt advertising, marketing, and films in China and Asia in 2017

No one is buying it.


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## Magic (Jan 1, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you liked the prequels your opinion is pretty much null and void.
> 
> And you don’t know what a Mary Sue is. If shes one so is Luke.



Luke goes through a pretty typical hero's journey...

Rey gets like no training, just kow pow powerful.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> she wasnt even > Kylo like in TFA



She had less problems than him against the guards.

She woke up (as far as I remember) first from the lightsaber blow, meaning it affected her less and if it had been a fight to death, she could had killed KR.

Yeah, she wasnt stronger than Snoke, that would had been too much for even the film supporters to handle.

Doesnt mean she is not a Sue, just wait until IX, I can assure you that she will be > Snoke and possibly > Sidious. She will be the most powerful being (maybe only matched by KR) in the galaxy. Something George didnt dared to make even with freaking Anakin Skywalker.

You ignored why she is a Sue:
>Being Clone Wars Jedi level  without training at all and not having even 2 weeks of knowing The Force exists
>Han Solo or above expertise in the Falcon despite never being in a ship before
>Defeating a trained force user that was trained by both Luke and Snoke
>Defeating Luke Skywalker in combat
>Lifting a mountain of rocks without effort when Luke, which had more training that her, couldnt lift a X-Wing
>All of this without having zero strong in The Force blood, being a Force Born or any other good explanation given for her power


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Something George didnt dared to make even with freaking Anakin Skywalker.


because he took a premature lava bath

if he didnt then full potential Anakin would have shitted on everybody ever


the rest of your post is either reaching or speculation

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> because he took a premature lava bath
> 
> if he didnt then full potential Anakin would have shitted on everybody ever
> 
> ...



Damn you nonsensical as fuck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Remember kids, when a side story film that is a numbered entry in the Star Wars films is matching the success of your latest main entry, that's not a good thing.



Wait, didnt TLJ already surpassed the numbers of Rogue One gross total? I remember reading that.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Wait, didnt TLJ already surpassed the numbers of Rogue One gross total? I remember reading that.



Yes but not going to come close to the Chinese numbers. Main two countries keeping it afloat internationally are the UK and Germany.


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## Zef (Jan 1, 2018)

I don't know why these articles are trying to downplay the scoring.

If these writers try visiting some discussion boards they would see with their own eyes that people legitimately don't like the film.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seto Kaiba (Jan 1, 2018)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Zef said:


> I don't know why these articles are trying to downplay the scoring.
> 
> If these writers try visiting some discussion boards they would see with their own eyes that people legitimately don't like the film.



Like I said before. The fact that TLJ has a historic, record-breaking biggest drop-off in cinema history after its opening at the box office is telling that people are not coming back to see the movie and word of mouth is poisoning it to people who haven't seen it yet. Pretty blatant that its not some alt-right conspiracy, people just don't like it. Plain and simple.

Disney is just going full damage control since week 1 ended. Just look at certain posters full on salt in this very thread as their numbers keep plummeting and reviews are shitting on it.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Glued (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> >Disney predicts $1.9 billion right before TLJ opened up in the box office
> >Opening week numbers are awful
> >Disney backpedals and claims $1.6 billion following that
> >Second week numbers are terrible
> ...



Jumanji was actually an enjoyable film, sure it had some toilet humor and some of the characters were a bit cliche and the 90s guy used 80s lingo, but overall it was a pretty fun non-serious movie.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> because he took a premature lava bath
> 
> if he didnt then full potential Anakin would have shitted on everybody ever
> 
> ...



Where is the speculation in that?



Orochibuto said:


> >Being Clone Wars Jedi level  without training at all and not having even 2 weeks of knowing The Force exists
> >Han Solo or above expertise in the Falcon despite never being in a ship before
> >Defeating a trained force user that was trained by both Luke and Snoke
> >Defeating Luke Skywalker in combat
> ...



She is a Mary Sue.


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## TrueG 37 (Jan 1, 2018)

The defense force for this movie is real.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 1, 2018)

They predicted 1.9 Billion. Really I said 1.5 Billion at best before the backlash lol.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

@Fang are you going to watch the Solo movie?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 1, 2018)

Sure isnt looking good with the production problems and feuds between the staff

Similiar to some recent capeflicks which turned out to be disasters


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> @Fang are you going to watch the Solo movie?



I'm not giving Disney any money.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 1, 2018)

> >Defeating Luke Skywalker in combat



Actually, Luke _toyed_ with her when she was fighting with her staff; he was blocking her strikes one-handed, got a couple strikes on her (if this were lightsaber combat, she'd be dead), and even disarmed her.  

The fight only ended when Rey drew the lightsaber which, unless Luke learned to handle lightsabers with his bare-hands, like the Father, would have cut through the weapon Luke had.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2018)

Gilgamesh said:


> If you liked TFA and TLJ you're opinion doesn't mean fuck all
> 
> And Luke unlike Rey actually got his ass kicked and look inferior and needed help


Luke blew up the death star. So far Rey has beat an injured Kylo Ren after he got shot and beat on by Finn.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Actually, Luke _toyed_ with her when she was fighting with her staff; he was blocking her strikes one-handed, got a couple strikes on her (if this were lightsaber combat, she'd be dead), and even disarmed her.
> 
> The fight only ended when Rey drew the lightsaber which, unless Luke learned to handle lightsabers with his bare-hands, like the Father, would have cut through the weapon Luke had.




And Luke was almost completely disconnected from the force. Otherwise he could have completely shrugged her off in a similar manner Snoke had done.


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## Glued (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> I'm not giving Disney any money.



What will you do if the day comes when Disney owns everything. I mean EVERYTHING.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Luke got the shit kicked out of him like five times in ANH. Rey went through everything flawlessly in TFA.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Not even EP III dared to treat Anakin Skywalker like KK is treating Rey.
> 
> The entire mythos of the chosen one was there, they spent 2 movies telling us how Anakin was going to be the most powerful force user ever.
> 
> George could had easily made Ep III Anakin be > Sidious and Yoda and it wouldn't had been a problem. Yet he didn't Anakin was still consistantly below the best of the best. Its almost a given Mary Sue will be the most powerful force user in the galaxy in EP IX.


Rey hasn’t dont anything all that amazing. Its clear she was used to fighting before the movies started. We see her fight on her home planet before meeting Finn. And people who are Force Sensitive have never needed training for simple access to their powers. That’s why Anakin could pod race.

Now you’re defending the prequels and the terrible “chosen one” bullshit. Saying “he’s the chosen one” is a terrible narrative defense because being a chosen one is a narrative cop out. Anakin is a horrible uneven character from start to finish in the prequels who manages to even make Vader look stupid by the end. His fall to the dark side isn’t as nuanced as anything in the new movies and his acting terrible. To top it all off the rest of the Jedi look incompetent too.

Probably the best part about Rey is she isnt a Skywalker and isn’t a chosen one. She’s just a girl who happens to be powerful who came from nothing. The old movies treat the jedi like a religion that some people are more adept to. The prequels treated it like it was just about how you’re born and who your parents are.

That’s kind of shitty.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Actually, Luke _toyed_ with her when she was fighting with her staff; he was blocking her strikes one-handed, got a couple strikes on her (if this were lightsaber combat, she'd be dead), and even disarmed her.
> 
> The fight only ended when Rey drew the lightsaber which, unless Luke learned to handle lightsabers with his bare-hands, like the Father, would have cut through the weapon Luke had.


^ this

Im not sure why Ive seen some people state that she beat Luke, when her skills were clearly worse than a rusty Lukes and she had to grab a lightsaber vs a stick to be able to threaten him


Snoke > Luke > Kylo = Rey

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> What will you do if the day comes when Disney owns everything. I mean EVERYTHING.



Kill myself in all honesty. We are already hurling head first into a dystopian future where mega corporations like Disney run everything.

Also for the nob defending Rey seriously give evidence why Rey is somehow able to magically use the Force within fucking hours of learning of it, pulling off telekinesis and Jedi mind tricks, and not once ever being beaten down, losing a fight, or otherwise failing in TFA. You know nothing.

"Snoke > Luke"

No proof at all of that. In fact going by Snoke's statement, he was scared shittless of Luke and wanted to bomb the planet he was on, indicating he didn't even want to face him in personal combat even with Ren at his side and possessing the Knights of Ren on top of that.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Snoke > Luke


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

um ?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

What have you the indication that Snoke outclasses Luke?


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> What have you the indication that Snoke outclasses Luke?



We have every indication Snoke is scared shitless of Luke just like Ren is 

"Oh shit that's where Luke is, fuck fighting him blow him up or something"


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Mouse Luke in sequel trilogy aint got no feats other than schooling Rey in stick combat and getting rocks dropped on him by Ben  (and getting KOd by that at least temporarily)

plus cut off from the Force for so long

I gotta give Snoke the nod here, at least in pure Force combat powers


and werent Lukes words about Reys/Kylos potential implying theirs were > his own 




~Gesy~ said:


> What have you the indication that Snoke outclasses Luke?


mostly general feeling, though I dont remember anything that puts Mouse Luke unquestionably at the very top here

we can make it Snoker = Luke


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> fuck fighting him blow him up or something"


thats common sense and being practical 

plus Snoker may or may not be an invalid with a debilitated motor function


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

>Snoke has zero accolades putting him over Luke
>Snoke has zero accolades even making him remotely near Vader whose out-classed by ROTJ Luke
>Ren couldn't touch Luke while Luke was toying with him on Crait
>Snoke's motivations and reactions indicate he's scared of Luke just like Ren showed himself to be scared of Luke with him ordering the walkers to fire on Luke instead of engaging him first

Keep telling yourself that, the film shows otherwise. Snoke's Force Lightning even sucks such fucking ass it doesn't even do remotely anything to Ren except force him back a step.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Luke got the shit kicked out of him like five times in ANH. Rey went through everything flawlessly in TFA.



Admittedly, I don't remember the circumstances, but didn't Kylo Ren KO and kidnap her in TFA?


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

For all of five minutes before she freed herself by pulling a Mind Trick out of her ass less than a few hours after learning what the Force is.


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## Glued (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> For all of five minutes before she freed herself by pulling a Mind Trick out of her ass less than a few hours after learning what the Force is.



Funniest part was when she started interrogating Kylo Ren and reading his mind. I was facepalming so hard.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

If Snoke was stronger than Luke, then why would the empire obsess over killing him in TFA? Then again, I can never quite tell what the light side has over the dark. Yeah, Luke beat Vader, but Vader wasn't shooting out lightning from his palms. Could Yoda do that? It's simply possible that the darkside wields more power, but that the force ultimately favors the light. I've also heard a theory that the force balances itself based on numbers. If there are a lot of Jedi, then the force will be stronger in the Sith in order to even the odds and vice versa, which is why Rey is so unusually powerful. But this is all nerd stuff, as the details of the force will probably vary depending on what the filmmakers want at the time. Even Lucas seems to have changed his mind between the OT and the prequels as to whether the force is religious in nature or just...science. 



Fang said:


> For all of five minutes before she freed herself by pulling a Mind Trick out of her ass less than a few hours after learning what the Force is.



That isn't 'flawless' though


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Funniest part was when she started interrogating Kylo Ren and reading his mind. I was facepalming so hard.



Kylo Ren seems to be the kind of guy who's super talented, but has absolutely no discipline. You don't throw temper tantrums like he does if you have self control, so it never seemed that much of a stretch that he was beaten back by Rey. He's probably the kind of douche who stopped training as soon as he became the only force wielder fighting this war. 

Episode 9 HAS to make him realize this though and improve himself. If he's still a whiny bitch who gets decisively beaten by those who matter (Rey, Luke, whomever), then he's just a shitty villain.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> , then why would the empire obsess over killing him in TFA?


extinguish the light of the jedi order


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

Since both died before meeting each other or even showing anything of significance-- this isn't a winnable argument for either side.

But given the fact that Sidious saw an inexperienced Luke as Vader's successor, and the special significnce the force has to the Skywalker bloodline, I'm inclined to disagree with you, Flutter.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If Snoke was stronger than Luke, then why would the empire obsess over killing him in TFA? Then again, I can never quite tell what the light side has over the dark. Yeah, Luke beat Vader, but Vader wasn't shooting out lightning from his palms. Could Yoda do that? It's simply possible that the darkside wields more power, but that the force ultimately favors the light. I've also heard a theory that the force balances itself based on numbers. If there are a lot of Jedi, then the force will be stronger in the Sith in order to even the odds and vice versa, which is why Rey is so unusually powerful. But this is all nerd stuff, as the details of the force will probably vary depending on what the filmmakers want at the time. Even Lucas seems to have changed his mind between the OT and the prequels as to whether the force is religious in nature or just...science.
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't 'flawless' though



Wrong.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> extinguish the light of the jedi order



Yeah, but wouldn't the force still manifest in someone else? Snoke isn't a sith lord, yet he wields the power of the dark side with ease. So it's safe to assume that even without the Jedi, someone will acquire the light side of the force.

Then again, I guess my point is kind of...pointless...as Snoke simply perceives Luke as a threat and wants it removed. It's possible Snoke>Luke, but Luke is such a legend that everyone assumes he would be stronger.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> but wouldn't the force still manifest in someone else?


so then they find him/her and nuke again .. and again .. and again







MartialHorror said:


> everyone assumes he would be stronger.


I honestly think thats because of EU Lukes legacy

but this is Mouse canon

but yeah, its unknown atm


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Mouse Luke in sequel trilogy aint got no feats other than schooling Rey in stick combat and getting rocks dropped on him by Ben  (and getting KOd by that at least temporarily)
> 
> plus cut off from the Force for so long
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 2 | Neutral 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2018)

Snoke is glorified fodder

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Wait, Sidious force choked Dooku across the galaxy? I don't remember that in the prequels.



TCW series which is still canon.



> Are you drawing from the comics, because maybe that's a little unfair to compare a villain who has had...4 decades worth of extended universe material to show off his badassery to a villain who has been around for 2 years.



First off, I'm not.
Secondly, Sidious doesn't even directly have 40 years. No appereance or direct presence at all in ANH, he doesn't even have anything more than a small cameo in TESB in 1980 and a major role as the penultimate villain of the Original Trilogy till ROTJ in 1983. Thirdly, not his problem Snoke went out like a bitch thanks to Rian being incompetent.



> [Also, it's obvious that his force lightning was designed to stun Kylo Ren, not torture him like Sidious did to Luke.



Prove it. The lightning didn't do anything but push Ren back slightly while his guards activated their weapons, that burst was designed to stop Ren in his tracks, and he demonstrated not obvious ability to increase its power further so I don't think so pal.



> I thought you had some sort of virgin rage directed towards this movie, but I'm beginning to think you're a closeted fan of "TLJ", as you're getting into this "who's stronger" debate more than the actual fans. I mean, shit, most people are not going to believe Snoke>Sidious, fan or detractor.



You aren't too bright and your projections are pretty pathetic to be quite honest, kouhai kun.

"I-If you prove me wrong y-your the nerd, not me." Seriously this is the absolute state of you projecting this sort of stupid nonsense to save face, stop with the dumb attempts at trying to poison the well here.

Hell the passive aggressive act is aggravating as hell because you have nothing else going on here. So drop the act.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Snokes force powers showings were impressive every time he showed them off

 TLJ hate just gets transferred onto Snoke



also I dont think Snoke > Sidious or even = (prime) Sidious, but I havent seen anything conclusive so far that Mouse canon Luke is >= Sidious either 

andf remember being cut off from the Force for many years wont be pretty

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

>Snoke's powers are impressive

lol

>compared to a guy who can force-choke people across the galaxy, disable the precognitive power of tens of thousands of Jedi by himself with the dark shroud of the Force, and can even choke people he doesn't even have to see without making gesture or throwing the senate at green frog aliens


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

not being on the same level as the strongest dark sider ever to exist doesnt make him unimpressive

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

It does when he dies like a bitch to Diet Anakin 2.0


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

yes, but because of plot/carelessness/drunk on power

not cause Kylo could take on Snoke directly


Sidious died by having a near dead Vader grab him by the scruff and chuck him down

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

No

Because Rian doesn't not give two fucks about JJ's mystery boxes which is why he'll stay dead as an irrelevant nobody to act as a plot device and less of a character solely because it was convenient to kill him off

>comparing Sidious getting killed to Darth Vader while he's murdering Luke is the same as Snoke dying getting cut in half sitting on a chair while giving a retarded monologue
>same Vader still dies from a short exposure to Sidious' lightning

Talk about reaching

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Wasn't there an implication that Luke could take on the entire First Order fleet from a conversation with Rey?

With him saying something along the lines of "what do you want me to do? Destroy their destroyers?" (I don't remember the exact line)

Granted, this is likely a vast exaggeration, but it still shows we should regard him as extremely powerful, even if of course that implication was a hyperbole.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

Luke should've done something more useful than projecting a hologram.


I'm still quite mad about that..


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> yes, but because of plot/carelessness/drunk on power
> 
> not cause Kylo could take on Snoke directly
> 
> ...



It required Vader, who was 80% of Sidious's full power to make a full on suicide attack to take down a blinded Sidious and that Vader had prophecy armor where it was his fate to eventually kill The Emperor.

Kylo Ren killed Snoke without giving anything in return, he didn't had to get maimed, die, or anything else. He just killed him and went on his merry way.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Kylo was being clever and sneaky

good for him




~Gesy~ said:


> Luke should've done something more useful than projecting a hologram.


maybe, but I dont think it makes the whole movie shit-tier and certainly doesnt make it worse than prequels




Orochibuto said:


> 80% of Sidious's full power


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)

Kylo killed him due to Snoke's arrogance, not because he's on a higher skill level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


>



Full potential Anakin was stated to be capable of being X2 Sidious, however after his mustafar injuries, he got stuck at a maximum of 80% of Sidious.



Weiss said:


> but I havent seen anything conclusive so far that Mouse canon Luke is >= Sidious either



Sidious stated that a full potential Luke could defeat him. Unless you believe that Luke in TLJ had not even reached his full potential, which would only shit further on the character.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Unless you believe that Luke in TLJ had not even reached his full potential


I have no clue

especially after he cut himself off




Orochibuto said:


> Sidious stated that a full potential Luke could defeat him.


that would logically be vs the old as dirt Sidious (older than even in RotJ)

what about vs Prime Sidious 





Orochibuto said:


> he got stuck at a maximum of 80% of Sidious.


whats the source of this ? is it from EU or from Mouse canon ?


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

>when the other side has to make things up

lol

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> I have no clue
> 
> especially after he cut himself off



What? You mean when Vader chopped his hand off? Anakin lost his hand too and he didn't lost a iota of potential. What fucked Anakin were the burns, particularily his burned lungs.




Weiss said:


> that would logically be vs the old as dirt Sidious (older than even in RotJ)
> 
> what about vs Prime Sidious



Since when were you under the impression ROTJ Sidious is any weaker than ROTS Sidious?





Weiss said:


> whats the source of this ? is it from EU or from Mouse canon ?



George Lucas himself. Which still apply.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> What?


he cut himself off from the Force in TLJ ...




Orochibuto said:


> ROTJ Sidious is any weaker than ROTS Sidious?




- the novelization of RoTs shows that the Yoda fight actualy left him "shook" and exhausted ("just an old gasping man" or some such line) and I assume this left its mark
- RotS Sidious would never go down to a near dead Vader 
- he seemed to be able to move better and more agile in RotS
- just plain logically, very advanced age = bad, you cant stave it forever even with the Force .. it got to Yoda, so why is Sidious different 

in pure force mastery RotJ Sidious isnt worse, but in lightsaber fighting he should be

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> he cut himself off from the Force in TLJ ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It didn't.



> - RotS Sidious would never go down to a near dead Vader



Except you are ignoring context entirely and the fact that Vader was not "near dead" from having his hand cut off. So lying there again, not surprising given its you of course.



> - he seemed to be able to move better and more agile in RotS



Might be due to the fact he's fighting someone his near equal in power in the form of Yoda which involved equal usages of lightsaber dueling and telekinesis and the advantages of modern technology and CGI vs a film made 32 years before it. That was too hard to think of wasn't it?



> - just plain logically, very advanced age = bad, you cant stave it forever even with the Force .. it got to Yoda, so why is Sidious different



There is no logic here, Sidious's "frail appearance" was an act as the ROTJ script, novelization, and film shows us in all three sources. 



> in pure force mastery RotJ Sidious isnt worse, but in lightsaber fighting he should be



You are just pulling things out of your ass here and making up pure head canon because no indication that's  true. Official sources say Sidious has grown so powerful that he regarded lightsaber combat as childish and evolved beyond it, not that he couldn't do it. But go ahead and keep lying.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Official sources say Sidious has grown so powerful that he regarded lightsaber combat as childish and evolved beyond it


uh-huh

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 1, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

RotS was awesome tbh


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> uh-huh



>no argument

Nice concession, ponyboy. :^ )


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## TrueG 37 (Jan 1, 2018)

People here trying to bring lolsnoke up and down playing Luke while claiming he was a Mary Sue and not Rey. My spleen has never been so broken from laughing .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 1, 2018)

> Nice concession

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Neutral 1


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

The funnier part is how Fluttershy kun is trying to shit post and isn't even good at that.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Glued (Jan 1, 2018)

In Story Telling the most important aspect is "Show, don't tell."

Based on what the audience saw and what was "Shown" in all 8 movies, and Rogue One, how great are Snokes feats?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Weiss said:


> he cut himself off from the Force in TLJ ...



Oh you meant that. Why would this have any bearing on his potential? Cutting himself from the force was a choice he took, that he can easily reverse.



Weiss said:


> - the novelization of RoTs shows that the Yoda fight actualy left him "shook" and exhausted ("just an old gasping man" or some such line) and I assume this left its mark
> - RotS Sidious would never go down to a near dead Vader
> - he seemed to be able to move better and more agile in RotS
> - just plain logically, very advanced age = bad, you cant stave it forever even with the Force .. it got to Yoda, so why is Sidious different



Yoda gave up on solving the ROTS mess on his own, Sidious on the other hand only got more powerful as he gained access to all the information in the Jedi temple and studied The Force further.

About ROTS, the fact that the prequels were way better funded and took place in with better technology likely played a huge part.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I thought you had some sort of virgin rage directed towards this movie, but I'm beginning to think you're a closeted fan of "TLJ", as you're getting into this "who's stronger" debate more than the actual fans. I mean, shit, most people are not going to believe Snoke>Sidious, fan or detractor.



He's a vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)

I'm a vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)

Hell, Fluttershit/Weiss and Lucaniel were vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) before they went to ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) it up with some other hobby *shrugs*

What's so odd about a vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) getting into the "who's stronger" debate despite preference towards the material being discussed?

Sometimes the fun isn't the content but figuring out how it fits together *shrugs*


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> TCW series which is still canon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So...35 years??? You're really going to crunch numbers with me there? The same guy who argued that 51% positive somehow equated to the general public hating the film? Even if Snoke survived the events of this film, he'd still only have 2 years against Sidious's 35. You're throwing all of this speculation about Snoke being more powerful than Luke because indicates he's going to blow up his planet instead of fighting him directly, which is highly interpretive. Yet then you say that because there is no proof he couldn't produce stronger force lightning, then he cannot. Even though by that logic, you can't say he was afraid to fight Luke, because there was no proof he was afraid to fight Luke.

Passive Aggressive? Bitch, please. Anyone who throws out cute little nicknames like 'kouhai kun' lives on that card. You haven't proven anything because you're not trying to prove anything. I don't even need to worry about 'saving face' with you because you've yet to produce any logic or facts in any of our 'debates'. You just say things like: "Are you sure you're not related to this other guy?" or "Keep telling yourself that" and call it a victory. You find me aggravating? I find you baffling, because you spend all day on these threads, 80% of it being shit posts.

Ugh, the worst part is I keep falling for this. I know you're more interested in provoking me than debating me, yet I just can't stop feeding the trolls.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

Crunch numbers? What the fuck are you babbling about. Does it take number crunching to figure out the difference in time between when RotJ came out and now or something? You have the personality and behavior of the same dynamic as paint on dry wall. You don't even have an actual rebuttal to anything I said and just give these retarded hand-waving, backpedaling, deflective responses like "trolls" because you have the mental bankruptcy to match your insipidly stupid posts.

Sidious does not show up for 35 years just because that's how long his character has been around. His big arc and finale is a single movie, Snoke has two, and he does next to jackshit and dies. That's the absolute state of his character. Cry more if you don't like it ad naseum. Because you better hope the TLJ novelization adds something to him because it doens't look like the films will now.

>"Bitch please'

Ouch, cutting edge shit there.

>"I don't need to worry"

Translation: You are conceding because you don't have jackshit to say despite that tl ; dr of filler in your posts trying to save face here, no matter how much you try to claim otherwise. I'll take that concession.

I mean god damn, could you be more of a lobotomized robot if you tried with that drone like persona you have going on in your posts? You have zero ability to debate, zero ability to argue your claims, and nonsensically just try to poison the well while talking like someone with their head up their ass trying to dismiss things you don't like period here. This is typical cop-out responses from people who can't actually do anything more than go "y-yeah your not worth my time."

And fuck: "Shit he CRUNCHED NUMBERS by telling me when ROTJ came out, fucking DORK"

Jesus christ.

Reactions: Like 3


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So...35 years???



Nah, Mouse culled everything but TCW and Films/their novelizations that were released prior to 2014

Everything released thereafter sans TOR content (which still draws heavily from Legends obviously) is wholly mouse canon though

Sidious certainly has more substantial quantity of feats and exposure, but all it takes is one book or comic to give Snoke something

Hell, even a quote about who he compares to that isn't contradicted by on screen/panel/whatever showings is sufficient

Not like Sidious has the best feats in the franchise... those belong to Ezra fucking Bridger, Kanan Jarrus, and Vader/Ahsoka Tano

No one benefits from the films, in general all the feats aren't note worthy compared to the greater Mouse canon


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Crunch numbers? What the fuck are you babbling about. Does it take number crunching to figure out the difference in time between when RotJ came out and now or something? You have the personality and behavior of the same dynamic as paint on dry wall. You don't even have an actual rebuttal to anything I said and just give these retarded hand-waving, backpedaling, deflective responses like "trolls" because you have the mental bankruptcy to match your insipidly stupid posts.



I had said Sidious has 4 decades worth of stuff to draw from, you countered that ANH and ESB don't count as he wasn't in much of those. RotJ came out 35 years ago...So why even argue with me on that point? 



> God damn, could you be more of a lobotomized robot if you tried with that drone like persona you have going on?



I could try to argue that a 51% positive somehow is the majority of the public?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Crunch numbers? What the fuck are you babbling about. Does it take number crunching to figure out the difference in time between when RotJ came out and now or something? You have the personality and behavior of the same dynamic as paint on dry wall. You don't even have an actual rebuttal to anything I said and just give these retarded hand-waving, backpedaling, deflective responses like "trolls" because you have the mental bankruptcy to match your insipidly stupid posts.
> 
> Sidious does not show up for 35 years just because that's how long his character has been around. His big arc and finale is a single movie, Snoke has two, and he does next to jackshit and dies. That's the absolute state of his character. Cry more if you don't like it ad naseum. Because you better hope the TLJ novelization adds something to him because it doens't look like the films will now.
> 
> ...



What were you expecting?

This is the guy that flatout stated that even if KK is forcing her ideological agenda on SW we should not care.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I had said Sidious has 4 decades worth of stuff to draw from, you countered that ANH and ESB don't count as he wasn't in much of those. RotJ came out 35 years ago...So why even argue with me on that point?



Except he doesn't in either the old or new canon. EU shit doesn't even start till 1991 with the Heir to the Empire book trilogy, and the first EU story featuring Sidious outside the film novelizations was by Veitech's Dark Empire graphic novel series in 1993. So lets see, 10 years of nothing between ROTJ and the first EU series to feature him post-ROTJ, so can't be 4 decades.  So factually wrong still.



> I could try to argue that a 51% positive somehow is the majority of the public?



Why are you asking me this question?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> What were you expecting?
> 
> This is the guy that flatout stated that even if KK is forcing her ideological agenda on SW we should not care.



This coming from the guy who called Holdo an SJW? Or did you say she looked like an SJW? Did you ever find out what an SJW actually was?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> Except he doesn't in either the old or new canon. EU shit doesn't even start till 1991 with the Heir to the Empire book trilogy, and the first EU story featuring Sidious outside the film novelizations was by Veitech's Dark Empire graphic novel series in 1993. So lets see, 10 years of nothing, so can't be 4 decades.  So factually wrong still.Why are you asking me this question?



Then why didn't you respond with that? I don't follow any of EU stuff or TCW. I only said 4 decades based on the films.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Based on what the audience saw and what was "Shown" in all 8 movies, and Rogue One, how great are Snokes feats?



Snoke's speciality is mind manipulation, including being able to connect Rey and Kylo Ren's minds through the Force, and effortlessly ripping Luke's location out of Rey's mind when she could resist Kylo Ren doing the same. 

It should be noted that Kylo Ren believed the effort of connecting their minds across the galaxy _would have killed Rey, _so he knew she wasn't the one responsible.  Snoke not only did that with minimal effort and without either noticing (they both thought the Force itself connected them), but he didn't even need to know where Rey was to do it.

He also rag-dolled Rey with telekinesis and she could not resist his power at all, and casually blasting Kylo Ren back with Force Lightning implies another point: while his body was physically weak, his strength in the Force was such that Kylo Ren had to resort to subterfuge and deceit to have a chance at killing him.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Then why didn't you respond with that? I don't follow any of EU stuff or TCW. I only said 4 decades based on the films.



TCW is equally canon as the films under Disney, so why is this bothering you?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> This coming from the guy who called Holdo an SJW? Or did you say she looked like an SJW? Did you ever find out what an SJW actually was?



Nice try.

You told me that there was no SJW/feminist shit being pushed in Star Wars and implied that thinking that automatically made you a right-wing troll.

Then when I showed how blatant this shit was in SW starting with directors using official SW logos to take sides, calling the Empire (bad guys) led by white men while the rebellion (bad guys) is a diverse group led by brave women.

KK dismissing the male SW fandom. And then she finally going full retard with "teh force is female!"

You changed your stance to "W-Well! Even if she has an agenda its okay!"


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Then why didn't you respond with that? I don't follow any of EU stuff or TCW. I only said 4 decades based on the films.



He probably could have done so sooner, but I already told you how much content Sidious has to draw on from Disney's canon alone a few posts before yours here 

Legends/the EU has no relevance to Disney however. The mouse wants its own homogeneous canon so they axed all previous content and the tier system to replace it with their own shit

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> TCW is equally canon as the films under Disney, so why is this bothering you?



It's not. This whole thing started with me asking if the 'Sidious force choking Dooku' thing was from the comics and said it might be unfair to match them because Sidious has had 40 years of history to draw from. You answered 'TCW', but then went off on how it wasn't 40 years because Sidious didn't become a real character until RotJ and then everything exploded into a full on argument. 



ChaosTheory123 said:


> He probably could have done so sooner, but I already told you how much content Sidious has to draw on from Disney's canon alone a few posts before yours here
> 
> Legends/the EU has no relevance to Disney however. The mouse wants its own homogeneous canon so they axed all previous content and the tier system to replace it with their own shit



Yeah, I got that. You told you me all of this too late though, as we were already in a bitchfest. 



Orochibuto said:


> Nice try.
> 
> You told me that there was no SJW/feminist shit being pushed in Star Wars and implied that thinking that automatically made you a right-wing troll.
> 
> ...



You're taking different arguments we've had and splicing them together. I only brought it up to begin with because you were obsessing over it, which I still think it strange if you're not sexist. You also kept throwing around 'SJW' without knowing the definition of it. I asked you if Holdo, Rey and Leia were males, would "TLJ" be a better movie. You did not respond. You then took this even farther with all of those pictures, but I shouldn't even have to respond to that. The entire industry is going through a female empowerment movement. I see nothing wrong with that. "RotJ" also did the 'Empire=white men/Rebellion= diverse races, both genders' contrast. She was dismissing the male SW fandom because people like you were freaking out over the protagonist being a female, which is stupid. 

I have said from the beginning that every filmmaker has an agenda. I usually do not care, because that is a large part of what filmmakers do. Michael Bay has his pro-America stance, Cameron has his environmentalist stance, Godard has his Marxist stance, KK has her female empowerment stance. I don't agree with all of them, but I don't have to in order to enjoy the film.  I do not think the genders of these characters made a difference as to whether the movie is good or bad. When Holdo and Poe had their confrontation, I saw it as two characters having a conflict. You saw it as a woman bossing a man around. That says more about you. And don't try to put words into my mouth.


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## Fang (Jan 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It's not. This whole thing started with me asking if the 'Sidious force choking Dooku' thing was from the comics and said it might be unfair to match them because Sidious has had 40 years of history to draw from. You answered 'TCW', but then went off on how it wasn't 40 years because Sidious didn't become a real character until RotJ and then everything exploded into a full on argument.



Because I was right? Sidious doesn't do anything even in the films until a full six years after ANH. Simply arithmetic is not number crunching here to any hard degree. Anyway blame Rian Johnson for Snoke being a literal pushover and made irrelevant in the grand scheme of the Sequel Trilogy, not Sidious or Lucas.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 1, 2018)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Legends/the EU has no relevance to Disney however. The mouse wants its own homogeneous canon so they axed all previous content



Admiral Thrawn and the Ones are still part of the Disney canon, as per _Rebels _and _The Clone Wars, _with Thrawn being a complete canon immigrant, given his initial appearance was after _Return of the Jedi_, in the old canon.

Given I aspire to be a novelist, even entertaining some ideas for a future Star Wars story (if I can get on board the train), my mind is already considering the possibility of reintroducing Legends content wherever viable, namely the Killiks and Yuuzhan Vong (Killiks are in the Unknown Regions, Yuuzhan Vong being outside the galaxy), alongside original content of my own.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 1, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Admiral Thrawn and the Ones are still part of the Disney canon, as per _Rebels _and _The Clone Wars, _with Thrawn being a complete canon immigrant, given his initial appearance was after _Return of the Jedi_, in the old canon.



Thrawn hasn't done the same things. He serves the same purpose, but his "feats" in Legends are inapplicable to "feats" in Disney

The One's are the same, but they have less content to work with in Disney.

We're discussing vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) shit dude, thus the context of my statement was feats *shrugs*


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> Because I was right? Sidious doesn't do anything even in the films until a full six years after ANH. Simply arithmetic is not number crunching here to any hard degree. Anyway blame Rian Johnson for Snoke being a literal pushover and made irrelevant in the grand scheme of the Sequel Trilogy, not Sidious or Lucas.



I personally think the only thing interesting about Snoke was that he was taken out like a bitch, so I'm not blaming anyone. 

So we all probably agree that Sidious would crush Snoke, so it's not really a good matchup. Would Snoke have a chance against Vader? Or Dooku?


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2018)

am i reading shit correctly in here? some guy is denying that SW is not about feminism? 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So we all probably agree that Sidious would crush Snoke, so it's not really a good matchup. Would Snoke have a chance against Vader? Or Dooku?



Not enough information to inform us

Though what we currently have tells us no, but that can obviously change

Vader's most notably in Mouse Canon  the  at the  powered by Kyber Crystal (Kyber Crystal detonating does  for reference)

Other bit feats include dragging Frigates out of the sky alongside Sidious



			
				Lords of the Sith said:
			
		

> _Vader, too, lifted a hand and reached out with the Force toward the other ship._
> 
> _Vader enmeshed himself in the Force, in his seething, ever-present wrath, and used it to take hold of the freighter and drive the entire ship toward the ground. He grunted with the effort, his respirator increasing his rate of breathing to account for the exertion._
> 
> _The ship, its damaged engines unable to compensate enough against the downward push of Vader's power, went nose-down and streaked into the ground. Vader imagined the screams of the pilots as they watched the forest race toward them. The ship disappeared behind the tree line and exploded into a fireball that reached above the forest's canopy and caused the ground to vibrate. A cloud of black smoke rose into the darkening sky. A second boom sounded behind him, his Master having driven the second ship into the ground the same way. The forest went silent for a moment in the wake of the explosions, with only Vader's breathing to disrupt the quiet, before the howls and chirps and squeals of Ryloth's fauna returned._



Dooku's best feat in Mouse Canon (well, Legends too, but he's lost much of his esoteric shit to Disney's culling) being getting  (not to remotely call them peers, Yoda being Sidious tier and Sidious is able to  from across the galaxy in TCW [, Sidious was on Coruscant and Dooku was on , an Outer Rim territory vs Coruscant's core], but Yoda exerting any effort at all is more than most characters will ever get to claim from arguably the most powerful Jedi ever in Mouse Canon)



			
				Attack of the Clones Novel said:
			
		

> Dooku gave a little growl and thrust forth his hand, loosing a line of blue lightning at the diminutive Master. Yoda caught it in his own hand and turned it aside, but far from easily.



EDIT - if you have any actual interest in vs fagging it for a bit on these character's, this fucker's got a rather complete collection of what Vader's done so far with Disney.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

What about Darth Maul? Where would he rank with Snoke and company?


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

Star Wars fans are some of the most self harming fans I have ever seen.

To think for a moment that disney cares about the cartoons or even their own comics.

With a wave of a hand the cartoons and comics will be as non-canon as the Old EU.

The cartoons are canon as long as they can sell toys, when that is done, it will be discarded.

I say this not as a hater, but a former reader of the EU. As a teenager, I used to enjoy the Jedi Apprentice series featuring Obi Wan and Qui Gon. One stroke of a pen is all it will take.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Star Wars fans are some of the most self harming fans I have ever seen.
> 
> To think for a moment that disney cares about the cartoons or even their own comics.
> 
> ...



Yeah but wouldn't that have happened anyway? The EU is too big and I highly doubt Lucas would've kept up with all of it had he continued making films. The canon of any EU should always be taken with a grain of salt, because all it takes is one idea from a writer or director that they want to explore that might contradict the rest of the EU. The continuity of this franchise has always been screwy anyway. Like how few people seem to be aware of the force in the original film.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah but wouldn't that have happened anyway? The EU is too big and I highly doubt Lucas would've kept up with all of it had he continued making films. The canon of any EU should always be taken with a grain of salt, because all it takes is one idea from a writer or director that they want to explore that might contradict the rest of the EU. The continuity of this franchise has always been screwy anyway. Like how few people seem to be aware of the force in the original film.



Its not really screwy when you consider in a galaxy of trillions there around 10 thousand Jedi.

I really hated how they combined the Dathomiri Witches with Darth Maul's race in the cartoons. It was completely unnecessary. If they wanted Dathomiri witches, they could have done it separately.

I remember a non-canon star wars series. I remember reading the final book and wishing Ken had been given a chance to meet his father, Triclops. But alas it ended after 6 books.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> What about Darth Maul? Where would he rank with Snoke and company?



In pure potential he's got an upper limit comparable to Mother Talzin from TCW, who's roughly Sidious' peer on Dathomir



			
				Son of Dathomir #3 said:
			
		

> _Mother Talzin : ''He promised to make me his right hand, but instead he stole what was most dear to me... When Sidious realized Maul's potential he took him from me and trained him as a Sith.''_



The implication being Sidious found a better investment in Maul

He never reaches that height, cut short by many circumstances, but he's solidly a peer of Dooku, if not somewhat weaker in Force Power (but not overwhelmingly so, otherwise Talzin would have been entirely overwhelmed by Dooku and Sidious' combined Force Lightning even with Maul adding his power to her own    )

Sidious also considered the loss of Maul to be tragic compared to Dooku being more functionally a "proton torpedo". Implying Maul was a legitimate Banite Sith and Dooku was a strategic placeholder



			
				Darth Vader #20 (2016) said:
			
		

> _Any my apprentices ? Darth Maul was a loss, but Darth Tyranus... He was a proton torpedo. He served his purpose and was gone..._



By Rebels he's a shell of his former self though,  that Obi-Wan directly copied from Qui-Gon from the TPM duel.



Ben Grimm said:


> Star Wars fans are some of the most self harming fans I have ever seen.
> 
> To think for a moment that disney cares about the cartoons or even their own comics.
> 
> ...



Whose claiming they care?

They want and like money, with a penchant for rehashing concepts already used by previous authors in their current continuity *shrugs*

Until such a time they retcon shit again, you use what's fair game to vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) shit up if that's your hobby


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> In pure potential he's got an upper limit comparable to Mother Talzin from TCW, who's roughly Sidious' peer on Dathomir
> 
> 
> 
> ...



....Darth Maul survived "The Phantom Menace" then? Did "Rebels" at least give him a real characterization? I always thought Maul was a wasted opportunity. He looked really cool and had an even cooler light saber, but didn't have much of a personality and died prematurely. I liked Dooku more as a character, but I thought he got...well, Snoked in "Revenge of the Sith".

Ugh, I feel like I should watch these animated shows, but I just can't stand the art style.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> ....Darth Maul survived "The Phantom Menace" then? Did "Rebels" at least give him a real characterization? I always thought Maul was a wasted opportunity. He looked really cool and had an even cooler light saber, but didn't have much of a personality and died prematurely. I liked Dooku more as a character, but I thought he got...well, Snoked in "Revenge of the Sith".
> 
> Ugh, I feel like I should watch these animated shows, but I just can't stand the art style.



The clone wars is a good series and touches on a lot of heavy subjects.

But dear lord the Political Episodes are boring. The banking episode. The corruption episode.

The political messages is in your face like two handed battle axe.


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> ....Darth Maul survived "The Phantom Menace" then? Did "Rebels" at least give him a real characterization? I always thought Maul was a wasted opportunity. He looked really cool and had an even cooler light saber, but didn't have much of a personality and died prematurely. I liked Dooku more as a character, but I thought he got...well, Snoked in "Revenge of the Sith".
> 
> Ugh, I feel like I should watch these animated shows, but I just can't stand the art style.




He was a wasted opportunity but I think both the Clone Wars and Rebels did well in giving him a character and seeing it through to the end.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

Rebels didn't do really shit with Maul but TCW did.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 2, 2018)

Weiss said:


> RotS was awesome tbh

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Wait, so did Darth Maul end up being a tragic villain? Just odd that Obi Wan cradled him at the end, despite Maul killing at least 2 people in his life...Guess I need to watch the show to get the context, lol.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

>Fluttershit so mad every time I blow out his posts he just chain dislikes my posts 
>you will never experience being this salty like that

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> >Fluttershit so mad every time I blow out his posts he just chain dislikes my posts
> >you will never experience being this salty like that




0.01-0.03 : Palapatinelaugh

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Wait, so did Darth Maul end up being a tragic villain? Just odd that Obi Wan cradled him at the end, despite Maul killing at least 2 people in his life...Guess I need to watch the show to get the context, lol.



By that point, Maul was a rabid dog that needed to be put out of its misery. Think Obi Wan's ability to take pity on him showed that he was able to let go.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> ....Darth Maul survived "The Phantom Menace" then?



Yep

Had a few major arcs as Villain during TCW, his own comic that adapted a theoretical season 7 story, and played a role in Rebels for a bit



> Did "Rebels" at least give him a real characterization?



As some clips have already been linked to you, suppose you’ve been sort of able to judge 

He’s evolved into the scorned/vengeful heir archetype basically

He also had a brother he legit cared about in TCW, his final evolution being something of a tragic monster due to every loss he suffered from birth onwards



> I always thought Maul was a wasted opportunity. He looked really cool and had an even cooler light saber, but didn't have much of a personality and died prematurely.



Agreed

Glad he got fleshed out in other content tbh



> I liked Dooku more as a character, but I thought he got...well, Snoked in "Revenge of the Sith".



Can’t go wrong with Christopher Lee

He got much more exposure outside the films too, but them alone certainly didn’t do him justice either



> Ugh, I feel like I should watch these animated shows, but I just can't stand the art style.



They’re both on Netflix IIRC

TCW was solid imo and Rebels has its moments


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

TCW got better as it went on...the Hidden Episodes were quite good really....Ashoka was so annoying early "Skyguy" still makes me rage.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 2, 2018)

Thought the nickname was kind of funny tbh

If only because it clearly annoyed Anakin at first and I enjoy that kind of schadenfreude 

One thing TCW did was make Anakin’s eventual fall and general character far more believable and sympathetic and just generally more enjoyable


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

It filled in the background so we actually got the development of brotherhood with Kenobi.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Is Disney working on any animated shows? That seems like a given.


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Is Disney working on any animated shows? That seems like a given.



probably something to replace Rebels.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 2, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> It filled in the background so we actually got the development of brotherhood with Kenobi.


it did what Lucas should've in the movies

the prequels would have been more focused if we started with Anakin as a young padawan rather than a poorly acted 10 year old. 
His childhood would have been better served left to the imagination.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> it did what Lucas should've in the movies
> 
> the prequels would have been more focused if we started with Anakin as a young padawan rather than a poorly acted 10 year old.
> His childhood would have been better served left to the imagination.



Honestly, the only thing good about child Anakin is that one poster where his shadow resembled Vader.

Actually, I will say this about the kid. He was the only actor in "Phantom Menace" who actually seemed like he wanted to be there, even if his acting was pretty bad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The World (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Honestly, the only thing good about child Anakin is that one poster where his shadow resembled Vader.
> 
> Actually, I will say this about the kid. He was the only actor in "Phantom Menace" who actually seemed like he wanted to be there, even if his acting was pretty bad.


yee


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## The World (Jan 2, 2018)

if only

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

The World said:


> yee

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

The World said:


> yee



It was a great poster.


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

I think we may have been too hard on Lucas for the Phantom Menace.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 2, 2018)

Lucas is leagues and bounds beyond Kennedy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I think we may have been too hard on Lucas for the Phantom Menace.


U die a hero or U live long enough to become the Villain.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Is Disney working on any animated shows?


hopefully with better CGI or maybe even back to non-CGI

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Lucas is leagues and bounds beyond Kennedy.


Lucas created Jar Jar Binks


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Lucas is leagues and bounds beyond Kennedy.



Cause KK is pencil pusher and bean counter with an ax to grind and agenda to push...she is not and has never been a visionary of any sort. And no pushing White Woman being great down our throat is not a Vision that is Agenda...Vision is a direction you wanna take  the Galaxy Far Far Away in. Seeing as the Story Group doesn't do jack shit, I have no doubt the lack of vision will bite her in the ass....Kevin Feige she is not. Hopefully with Solo being a critical hit at minimum.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Lucas created Jar Jar Binks



Eh KK gave us Finn, I will take my incompetent comic relief with one degree of separation as an Alien, thank you very much. Yeah sure he had a Jamican accent but he still didn't look Black.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

Finn isnt Jew Jew Binks level just because he didnt turn out a forceuser


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Finn isnt Jew Jew Binks level just because he didnt turn out a forceuser



Nah he is Jar Jar level cause he is always doing stupid physical humor instead of actual gravitas.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I think we may have been too hard on Lucas for the Phantom Menace.


in retrospect? 

i would crawl and beg for his forgiveness

TLJ made me, for the 1st time since childhood, not care about SW.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I think we may have been too hard on Lucas for the Phantom Menace.



No we have not. Trust me. I saw the movie before it became the stigma of Star Wars and I didn't care for it back then, but I still kind of defended it as I still do think a lot of its flaws could also be found in the OT. But then I watched it again and it's a dumpsterfire. The actors look confused and bored. The writing focuses far too much on the politics. The sets look nice, but they end up making the over-used, poorly aged CGI effects look out-of-place (the sequels were actually smarter for going entirely digital for this reason alone). The cinematography blows because each frame is so cluttered that it becomes difficult to focus on the visuals. The soundtrack rarely has an opportunity to leave an impression because the pacing is so fast that the scene has already changed before the music can swell. The choreography is strangely soft, as if the characters aren't actually trying to kill each-other as much as they're just play fighting. 

The only good part in the entire movie is when Darth Maul draws his double bladed lightsaber and Duel of the Fates starts playing. "Attack of the Clones" was a bit better (if more uneven) and "Revenge of the Sith" was passable, but "Phantom Menace" is bad. Watch it again. I dare you.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 2, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Nah he is Jar Jar level cause he is always doing stupid physical humor instead of actual gravitas.


brotha is literally a space janitor who mops the floors and cleans the toilets

may as well call him Slappy the Janitor

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 2, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Lucas created Jar Jar Binks



And Kennedy created Crylo Uchiha.

Jar Jar Binks >>>>>>>>>> (infinity) >>>>>>>>>> Crylo.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

Duel of Fates may the single greatest track in humanitys history

just for that, TPM, just for that


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The only good part in the entire movie is when Darth Maul draws his double bladed lightsaber and Duel of the Fates starts playing. "Attack of the Clones" was a bit better (if more uneven) and "Revenge of the Sith" was passable, but "Phantom Menace" is bad. *Watch it again. I dare you*.



I did, it wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it more than TFA even though I knew Anakin and Obi Wan were safe.

Rey interrogating Kylo and mind tricking a Storm Trooper point blank killed all tension for me.

TPM at least had some edge with Darth Maul straight up killing Liam Neesan. Liam Neesan was the main character for that film and he got straight up ended.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 2, 2018)

The Phantom Menace:
>Liam Neeson seal of badassery
>Darth Maul
>Duel of Fates
>No Crylo

"The Last Jedi was better"


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

@Weiss are you sad about your girl....

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I did, it wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it more than TFA even though I knew Anakin and Obi Wan were safe.
> 
> Rey interrogating Kylo and mind tricking a Storm Trooper point blank killed all tension for me.
> 
> TPM at least had some edge with Darth Maul straight up killing Liam Neesan. Liam Neesan was the main character for that film and he got straight up ended.



Then I do not know what to say to that. We clearly have vastly different standards on what qualifies as decent. I grew up with "The Phantom Menace" and can't even muster nostalgia for it. Yes, TPM had some edge with Liam Neeson getting killed, but this was intercut with scenes of Jar Jar goofing around and child Anakin blowing up the Death St- er, whatever the Death Star stand-in was supposed to be. That thing that controls the droids? Whatever it was, it was incredibly silly. It also didn't help that Qui Gon Jinn wasn't given much of a personality, so while it was shocking that he died, the movie itself made it difficult to care. 

I mean, even if it's more out of reverence towards the original trilogy, people were actually crying in my theater when Luke died.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> brotha is literally a space janitor who mops the floors and cleans the toilets
> 
> may as well call him Slappy the Janitor



Pretty much this. Finn has zero impact other than being a glorified gag character in TFA. And what uniqueness that he had (as much as I hated it) he brought from Episode VII was completely ignored in TLJ. He largely had one scene of comedic value (which sucked and killed the tension during the opening act of VIII) and mainly went around apishly grunting and complaining most of the movie. I'd take Jar-Jar over him in a heart beat tbh.

And not even going to get into the Porgs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> Pretty much this. Finn has zero impact other than being a glorified gag character in TFA. And what uniqueness that he had (as much as I hated it) he brought from Episode VII was completely ignored in TLJ. He largely had one scene of comedic value (which sucked and killed the tension during the opening act of VIII) and mainly went around apishly grunting and complaining most of the movie. I'd take Jar-Jar over him in a heart beat tbh.
> 
> And not even going to get into the Porgs.



Porgs were product placement for a franchise that cant just stick Coca Cola in the background or have their characters drink Bud.

But Porgs are good and Lucas was evil for Ewoks....at least the Ewoks made themselves useful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Porgs were product placement for a franchise that cant just stick Coca Cola in the background or have their characters drink Bud.
> 
> But Porgs are good and Lucas was evil for Ewoks....at least the Ewoks made themselves useful.



The only defense of Porgs...and yes, they are blatant product placement and you bring up a good point that the franchise probably overcompensates on these because they can't shill real life products...is they don't consume the entire movie. They're there to just look cute in the background at times, while Ewoks took the center stage for a lot of the film. Personally though, I can't hate Ewoks, even if I do hate their impact on the film. I grew up with those fuzzy f@ckers and I'm actually afraid to watch those 2 Ewok movies again. I adored them as a kid, yet I know my cynical adult mind will be disappointed if I revisit them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Porgs were product placement for a franchise that cant just stick Coca Cola in the background or have their characters drink Bud.
> 
> But Porgs are good and Lucas was evil for Ewoks....at least the Ewoks made themselves useful.



Exactly. We saw the Ewoks actually serve a purpose helping the Rebel commandos on Endor in ROTJ, the Porgs existed for no other purpose other than blatant toy adverts and merchandising with being "cute". Which I guess Disney was smart to do considering everything else for TLJ in terms of toys are bombing bad and their top distributors like Target and Walmart don't want them, hell Toys R Us won't take extra shipments because their still worried about going bankrupt.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

porgs were cute af

Ewoks nearly ruined RotJ


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Weiss said:


> porgs were cute af
> 
> Ewoks nearly ruined RotJ



Are you implying Warwick Davis is not cute af?

He was the Leprechaun dammit!


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> lol



The BOTs did it Fang stop being a Racist Sexist Asshat and spreading lies.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)




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## Orochibuto (Jan 2, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> am i reading shit correctly in here? some guy is denying that SW is not about feminism?
> 
> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL



The hag admitted it herself in the same interview she is wearing this shit:



"I wouldn't sit here and say you must go into film and study only film and go to film school. *The most important thing is to have a point of view and have something to say.* That is important if you are filmmaker or artist. That means you have to experience the world."

Thats it, directly from the hag herself, its not about making a good film, nah, forget about studying filmaking, whats important is to have an agenda and push it.

Thats what SW is to her, displaying her point of view and message.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mider T (Jan 2, 2018)

The one on the left's face, with the one right next to her's tits, the stomach of the one next to her, with the hips of the one to the far right.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2018)

I have a lot of love and respect for women..but this type of desperation and exploitation disgust me tbh.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> The hag admitted it herself in the same interview she is wearing this shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You've yet to respond to my points that this is how almost all filmmakers are, from the hacks (Michael Bay) to the masters (Steven Spielberg). Are you just pretending that their own agendas do not exist? Truffaut- whom the entire industry practically worships- even argued that a movie cannot be good without the filmmakers having something to say. You just don't like the feminist agenda and then wonder why I think you're sexist.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2018)

there's nothing wrong with a female lead as long as the actress can act decently and her character is developed or booked in a believable way. 

rey was written like the second coming of jesus with multiple twists and ass pulls outta nowhere. how can you respect that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

The issue is that under Kathleen Kennedy, she was wants to specifically move away from the traditional demographic of Star Wars: males, and go for more female fans. This is partly a big reason why TLJ returns are sucking compared to TFA, there's a very unsubtle theme here of pushing the limelight not equally between men and women but almost entirely on the female cast. When your franchise is 90% male, this is not a smart business move.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> there's nothing wrong with a female lead as long as the actress can act decently and her character is developed or booked in a believable way.
> 
> rey was written like the second coming of jesus with multiple twists and ass pulls outta nowhere. how can you respect that?



In turn, there is nothing wrong with you feeling that way about her character. But if she was a male, the problems with the characterization would remain the same. My issue with Orochibuto is his obsession over her gender, as if that's the problem. He's upset that I tend to label him as a sexist, but I keep trying to give him outs because I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I keep pointing out that every filmmaker has an agenda, but he never responds. 

Maybe he just never thought about it. Maybe he just doesn't know much about the mechanics of cinema. But when you harp on the feminism in Star Wars to this extent, you start to come across as sexist. It's just like the people who freaked out about Finn's race back when it seemed like he was the protagonist, but then insisted they weren't racist. 

Honestly, on a side note, I am surprised there wasn't criticism about the bait-and-switch Disney did with its marketing of TFA. They were really making a big deal about how the lead was a black guy, but the protagonist ended up being the white girl. While that's more diverse than a white male, it's not that unusual right now for a white female to lead a big budgeted action flick ("Hunger Games", "Wonder Woman", etc).


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## Skaddix (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> The hag admitted it herself in the same interview she is wearing this shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THE FORCE IS " A WHITE" FEMALE...I think that distinction is important.

We are what 3 movies in to Kathy's Regime and I don't see a single non white Force User.

You want this bitch out then make sure Solo Tanks.


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## Lucaniel (Jan 2, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> I have a lot of love and respect for women..but this type of desperation and exploitation disgust me tbh.


before i showed ignored posts to find out what you were talking about, i thought this post was about sex slavery or trafficking or something

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rborges01 (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> The hag admitted it herself in the same interview she is wearing this shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't know the force had a gender.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

Cringe


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 2, 2018)

rborges01 said:


> I didn't know the force had a gender.





Assuming you consider the Ones in their capacity as embodiments of the Force, at least.  

But given the Force encompasses all life, a better claim would be that it is _both_ male and female.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Isn't the 'Force is Female' thing a reference to that Nike slogan? Or did Nike get it from Kennedy?


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## rborges01 (Jan 2, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Assuming you consider the Ones in their capacity as embodiments of the Force, at least.
> 
> But given the Force encompasses all life, a better claim would be that it is _both_ male and female.


Is that from the clone wars show? I should probably start watching it to see if there's anything else I missed.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> The issue is that under Kathleen Kennedy, she was wants to specifically move away from the traditional demographic of Star Wars: males, and go for more female fans. This is partly a big reason why TLJ returns are sucking compared to TFA, there's a very unsubtle theme here of pushing the limelight not equally between men and women but almost entirely on the female cast. When your franchise is 90% male, this is not a smart business move.


she naively thinks that the majority of women will magically care about Star Wars suddenly just because she casts women. What a fool.

Don't know why Disney didn't axe her the moment they acquired LucasFilm


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## Disquiet (Jan 2, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> The hag admitted it herself in the same interview she is wearing this shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a difference between _conveying_ a message and _preaching_ a message. This is a distinction lost on a lot of artists, but it is an important one. There is nothing wrong with a writer or director having a point of view and conveying it through their work, as almost all art is built upon this; the problem arises where this message is heavy-handed, artificial or essentially irrelevant to the work as a whole. Maybe you think that is what is happening here, and to some extent I can see why, but there is a baby in that bathwater.

I don't like preachy writing, and I would argue that preachy writing is bad almost by definition; robbed of subtlety, at best it preaches to the choir. I also agree that telling a good story should be paramount, if only because any message you want to convey is worthless without a good story propping it up. That said, if an artist doesn't start out with something to say, the work will be soulless. In itself, what this woman is saying here is not unreasonable.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Isn't the 'Force is Female' thing a reference to that Nike slogan? Or did Nike get it from Kennedy?



Perhaps a modified version of this:



Rather surprising the phrase originated in 1972, or I'm just a recluse to big movements and the like.  



rborges01 said:


> Is that from the clone wars show? I should probably start watching it to see if there's anything else I missed.



Yes, it is from the Clone Wars.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2018)

women are trying to overtake Star Wars of all things is a pretty funny turn of events.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

kek

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> kek



Telling Rian Johnson to choke is honestly going too far.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 2, 2018)

That's not technically a threat tho.


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## Disquiet (Jan 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> kek


What "abusive relationship"? Is this how people interpret Rey/Kylo?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 2, 2018)

Jyn, Rey, Kylo all of them good


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## Gunners (Jan 2, 2018)

Some people are doing too much.


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## Fang (Jan 2, 2018)

Disquiet said:


> What "abusive relationship"? Is this how people interpret Rey/Kylo?



Probably that.


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

You know the funniest thing about the TPM, Greedo used to pick on Anakin when they were young.

Anakin's future son-in-law makes Greedo pay years later.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

For those who hate the movie, would you call it the worst movie of 2017?

I only wonder because I'm compiling my list and this year was pretty subpar, both with its good movies and its bad movies. Right now my 'Worst' is that King Arthur movie, but I have to revisit my notes just to remember it.


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> For those who hate the movie, would you call it the worst movie of 2017?
> 
> I only wonder because I'm compiling my list and this year was pretty subpar, both with its good movies and its bad movies. Right now my 'Worst' is that King Arthur movie, but I have to revisit my notes just to remember it.



Geostorm, that movie had no redeeming quality.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Geostorm, that movie had no redeeming quality.



I haven't seen that one yet. I also haven't seen "Baywatch" or "The Snowman", which I hear are also among 'the worst'. If you guys think "TLJ" pissed on the franchise, be glad you're not an Underworld fan, as the newest sequel shat over its fanbase in the worst possible ways...although I'm still not entirely convinced that "Underworld" even has a fanbase, so I guess it's a mute point.


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I haven't seen that one yet. I also haven't seen "Baywatch" or "The Snowman", which I hear are also among 'the worst'. If you guys think "TLJ" pissed on the franchise, be glad you're not an Underworld fan, as the newest sequel shat over its fanbase in the worst possible ways...although I'm still not entirely convinced that "Underworld" even has a fanbase, so I guess it's a mute point.



The only thing I liked about Underworld is the whole Vampires living it up as rich aristocrats and Werewolves being the downtrodden average joe.

The Underworld Prequel was alright as far as I'm concerned as was the original.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The only thing I liked about Underworld is the whole Vampires living it up as rich aristocrats and Werewolves being the downtrodden average joe.
> 
> The Underworld Prequel was alright as far as I'm concerned as was the original.



The new one had magic vampires that look like the Dragon Queen from "Game of Thrones".


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The new one had magic vampires that look like the Dragon Queen from "Game of Thrones".


Wut?


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## Imagine (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I haven't seen that one yet. I also haven't seen "Baywatch" or "The Snowman", which I hear are also among 'the worst'. If you guys think "TLJ" pissed on the franchise, be glad you're not an Underworld fan, as the newest sequel shat over its fanbase in the worst possible ways...although I'm still not entirely convinced that "Underworld" even has a fanbase, so I guess it's a mute point.


The Underworld movies all suck so it was mostly just pissing on itself. Bayformers were also never good.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wut?



Yup and in hindsight, The Underworld franchise missed out on an opportunity to have vampires, werewolves and DRAGONS fighting each-other. That would've been horrible, but also kind of amazing...



Imagine said:


> The Underworld movies all suck so it was mostly just pissing on itself. Bayformers were also never good.



Yeah I don't like Bayformers either and the newest one was a franchise low. "Resident Evil: The Final Chapter" was also a franchise low, which is actually quite impressive considering those films were never good either. 

Then again, when you watch all of the "Children of the Corn" movies within the span of a month, Bayformers starts to seem OK...


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## Glued (Jan 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yup and in hindsight, The Underworld franchise missed out on an opportunity to have vampires, werewolves and DRAGONS fighting each-other. That would've been horrible, but also kind of amazing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If Michael Bay had actually put a little bit of soul and humanity into the Transformers franchise, if he had actually given a cohesive plot, it could have surpassed Star Wars as the highest grossing franchise ever.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 2, 2018)

Speaking of franchises, remember when Gamera kamikaze'd a Star Destroyer? Truly the greatest moment in Star Wars history...


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## Orochibuto (Jan 3, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> In turn, there is nothing wrong with you feeling that way about her character. But if she was a male, the problems with the characterization would remain the same. My issue with Orochibuto is his obsession over her gender, as if that's the problem. He's upset that I tend to label him as a sexist, but I keep trying to give him outs because I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I keep pointing out that every filmmaker has an agenda, but he never responds.



Wrong, I have never said I have a problem with her being female, I have a problem with the overall feminism bullshit being shoved upon this franchise, a franchise that so far is delivering garbage like The Last Jedi.

I left a review where I stated exactly what my problems with the film is, I explicitily stated that the feminism/social justice shit is the lesser of the shit I disliked and that it was so bad that I wish, this was the shit I was complaining about.

Yet you want to paint it as "Y-you are only mad that we have female protagonists!" when I never stated that.

You even went as far as quoting a post completely unrelated to this issue and that was not even addressed to you where I said that I went to the cinema wanting to like it and making me biased in favor of it on purpose, and that I had even prepared myself for the worst stuff I could imagine happening in the film. Your reply to it was basically "I think you are lying and didnt wanted to like it because you point out the feminist shit."

I have seen this pattern among the defenders of this movie (not all of them, mind you), you try to dismiss criticism of the movie as alt-right trolls, discredit them saying they went to watch it with the intent of hating it, or that they not liking it is all centered on that.

Guess what? People can complain about the feminist stance of the films and still have other reasons they didnt liked it, it doesnt even have to be the main reason they didnt liked the film. It doesnt invalidate their arguments. They disliking something that you think should not be disliked, does not make them trolls. But I guess its easier to think that, than coming to terms with all the fuck ups of this movie.

I even stated multiple times what I despised the most abouy TLJ: Crylo.



MartialHorror said:


> Maybe he just never thought about it. Maybe he just doesn't know much about the mechanics of cinema. But when you harp on the feminism in Star Wars to this extent, you start to come across as sexist. It's just like the people who freaked out about Finn's race back when it seemed like he was the protagonist, but then insisted they weren't racist.



Heres the thing, having an agenda is NOT okay and it is valid criticism. The audience tolerates, puts up with your agenda because you deliver a good product, deliver garbage (like The Last Jedi), and your agenda is going to rightly get shit on. Which is exactly what I stated in my review, I would had been willing to overlook the social justice/feminist shit if I got a good product, I didnt, this leads me to question harder the film makers, including the ideology they are driving SW with.

Secondly, a lot of these world were built FROM THE SCRATCH with that agenda, it comes as normal and organic in that world. You can't come to an already established universe and suddenly shove up your agenda in the setting.

Third, its about the way you present it. These worlds can make us agree with what the director or writer want us to, without preaching it to us. In short: show, don't tell. I don't need the director of Avatar to start throwing shit using official Avatar logos to take pro-environmentalist stances, then double down and say "The bad guys are humans and the good guys are environmentalists hurr derp!" I don't need him to come wearing dumb shirts saying "God is nature".

Fourth, there is a difference between subtly leaving a message in a movie and making a movie TO leave the message. KK flatout stated that the MOST important thing to her is the agenda.

You cant expect the fandom to just sit and take that shit. When you parade your ideology around and shamelessly link it to the movies, and then state that the main point of making a movie is your ideology. Guess what? Dont be surprised when people link the errors in your movies with the ideology you are shoving into your movies.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Jotun (Jan 3, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Luke blew up the death star. So far Rey has beat an injured Kylo Ren after he got shot and beat on by Finn.


The movie built up to that moment with Luke. The movie already tells us he is an Ace pilot on Tatooine. He is trained throughout the movie and we see him improve. Obi-wan helps him focus at the end, he would not have tried to use the force to feel for the shot had Obi-wan not told him to. 

They set up Kylo as the new Vader and final villain in TFA, but that shit goes downhill so fast. Luke doesn't even fight with a lightsaber until TESB. Rey picks up mind tricks instantly, Luke doesn't do mind tricks until RotJ. The only feat that feels natural to me is her picking up the rocks. That is the only thing we see Luke train her with, feeling the force. The amount/size does not matter.


Luke has a much more organic progression of power. Rey is playing new game+ with maxed out stats.



Jake CENA said:


> there's nothing wrong with a female lead as long as the actress can act decently and her character is developed or booked in a believable way.
> 
> rey was written like the second coming of jesus with multiple twists and ass pulls outta nowhere. how can you respect that?



The original Alien movies have one of the most badass main characters in Ripley, a female lead. She does not start off powerful/courageous. The main problem is character development, yep.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

Underworld movies will be [HASHTAG]#worth[/HASHTAG] as long as Kate Beckinsale looks good in tight black leather

but the first movie was also genuinely good and interesting IMHO

first Transformers was also ok @Imagine


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

@Stunna how do you rate TLJ on 1-10 scale ?


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Underworld movies will be [HASHTAG]#worth[/HASHTAG] as long as Kate Beckinsale looks good in tight black leather
> 
> but the first movie was also genuinely good and interesting IMHO
> 
> first Transformers was also ok @Imagine


Nah, shut up. It was mediocre. It wasn't as bad as what came after but def not good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## U mad bro (Jan 3, 2018)

The only legit female character of quality in last Jedi was the chick who died blowing up the destroyer.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Wrong, I have never said I have a problem with her being female, I have a problem with the overall feminism bullshit being shoved upon this franchise, a franchise that so far is delivering garbage like The Last Jedi.
> 
> I left a review where I stated exactly what my problems with the film is, I explicitily stated that the feminism/social justice shit is the lesser of the shit I disliked and that it was so bad that I wish, this was the shit I was complaining about.
> 
> ...



It really depends, for example Ayn Rand's Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged don't even pretend to be stories. It may as well be preaching. Some hardcore conservatives like it for some reason.

Avatar was also heavy-handed its message of environmentalism.

I think JLU did Wonder Woman and The Question very well. Wonder Woman's feminism and the Question's Randian Objectivism are both very slight. Wonder Woman has that perfume store scene and the Question gives a subtle reference to Lex Luthor in his "A is A" speech. Superman went to Apokalips in Superman: TAS and he literally made god bleed, but at no point did Superman start quoting Nietzche.

The classic trilogy had Storm Troopers, but at no point did they start doing Sieg Heil.
The Ewok victory over the Empire was akin to Vietnam, but at no point do the Ewok's explicitly represent Vietcong.

Though in the prequels, Newt Gunray (Gingrich) was a bit of a heavy hand.
Obi Wan and Padme talking about democracy was also cringe worthy.


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2018)

Weiss said:


> @Stunna how do you rate TLJ on 1-10 scale ?


Maybe a 4 or 5. 6, max, but probably a 4 or 5.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

Solid 4

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

Imagine said:


> Solid 4


so better than TPM and AotC


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

TPM has Darth Maul.

TLJ has the evisceration of Luke Skywalker's character.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Disquiet (Jan 3, 2018)

I still don't understand why people like Darth Maul. Is it just the lightsaber? It is a cool lightsaber, I'll admit that, but the guy holding it is a complete non-entity who looks like a goofy clown.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 3, 2018)

When a heavy movie-watcher like Stunna thinks its mediocre, that reinforces the other critics

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

I agree Maul himself is overrated (in the movie, idk about him in the cartoon), but the double saber is cool


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Stunna said:


> Maybe a 4 or 5. 6, max, but probably a 4 or 5.


I agree, but I thought you liked it.


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2018)

Of course TLJ is better than TPM and AOTC (even if those movies are more _interesting_.)

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

I wonder what would happen if Newt Gunray got into a debate with Ron..._*Maul*_?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> I agree, but I thought you liked it.


4 isn't too low of a score for a movie to be _enjoyed_.


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## Disquiet (Jan 3, 2018)

Weiss said:


> I agree Maul himself is overrated (in the movie, idk about him in the cartoon), but the double saber is cool


I would unironically call him the worst Star Wars character if there weren't already a better candidate for that position.* That said, yeah, I have heard that in the cartoon(s?), comics and possibly some novels he survived the events of TPM and got himself some robot legs, possibly spider legs or something, and presumably got himself some characterisation. That's dumb but it's fun, so great. I only watch the movies, though. I'm not that into Star Wars.

*Obviously I am talking about General Hux, who is just the _worst_.


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## Aduro (Jan 3, 2018)

Disquiet said:


> *Obviously I am talking about General Hux, who is just the _worst_.


Are you worried that he's making it too obvious that the stormtroopers are Nazi's?


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

He's just a bumbling pencil pusher. How Snoke allowed him to get in such a position of power is baffling. The entire character was set up for a bunch of MCU lite character interactions.

Darth Maul was underdeveloped (in the movie) but did what he needed to do in his role which was to be a cool villain and offer a cool fight.

There's plenty of offensively bad SW characters like Hux, Admiral Tumblr, Rose, Jar Jar, Rey ect.

Maul isn't one of them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Lewd 1


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2018)

Maul is super inoffensive. He can't be the worst character because he barely is one; he's more of a bestial force of nature that exists just to oppose the heroes. I don't have a problem with him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Disquiet (Jan 3, 2018)

Aduro said:


> Are you worried that he's making it too obvious that the stormtroopers are Nazi's?


I suppose that's part of it, in a sense. He's a blundering cartoon villain, and everything that comes out of his mouth is embarrassing. He would fit right into a Marvel movie, but I don't particularly like Marvel movies.


Imagine said:


> He's just a bumbling pencil pusher. How Snoke allowed him to get in such a position of power is baffling. The entire character was set up for a bunch of MCU lite character interactions.


Yes, this, basically.


Imagine said:


> Darth Maul was underdeveloped (in the movie) but did what he needed to do in his role which was to be a cool villain and offer a cool fight.
> 
> There's plenty of offensively bad SW characters like Hux, Admiral Tumblr, Rose, Jar Jar, Rey ect.
> 
> Maul isn't one of them.


I mean, "underdeveloped" doesn't even begin to cut it. Rey is underdeveloped; Maul just isn't anything. I'll concede that the fight was cool, but Duel of Fates and the lightsaber were really doing all the work there.

We may have to agree to disagree on this. 

As for other characters: Hux is bad; Vice Admiral Purple-hair is more a victim of dumb writing than anything else, though I don't really see the ultra-feminist angle people are pinning on her; Rose isn't awful but doesn't really work as a character; Jar-jar is bad and annoying but could have been fixed with a decent foil; and Rey is just boring. I certainly wouldn't put Rey on the same level as the others.


Stunna said:


> Maul is super inoffensive. He can't be the worst character because he barely is one; he's more of a bestial force of nature that exists just to oppose the heroes. I don't have a problem with him.


I can see what you're saying, but I don't really think Maul worked on that level. Maul just reads to me like a character they forgot to do anything with. To each their own, obviously, but there it is.

I think Darth Nihilus (from KotOR II) did a better job of playing the "force of nature" card.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 3, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> In turn, there is nothing wrong with you feeling that way about her character. But if she was a male, the problems with the characterization would remain the same. My issue with Orochibuto is his obsession over her gender, as if that's the problem. He's upset that I tend to label him as a sexist, but I keep trying to give him outs because I always want to give people the benefit of the doubt. I keep pointing out that every filmmaker has an agenda, but he never responds.
> 
> Maybe he just never thought about it. Maybe he just doesn't know much about the mechanics of cinema. But when you harp on the feminism in Star Wars to this extent, you start to come across as sexist. It's just like the people who freaked out about Finn's race back when it seemed like he was the protagonist, but then insisted they weren't racist.


idgaf about feminism; hell, i'm all for empowering the pussy...

but just think for a moment how ridiculous it would be if _Vice Admiral_ Holdo were a man who had green hair and showed up out of nowhere wearing a  tuxedo...it would be just as stupid as what we got.

this filler character is wearing a nightgown and sporting purple during the worst crisis her shitty rebellion ever faced, and why? 

because some shitter in charge thought a socio-political message about women doing "male" jobs while still dressing feminine is more important than telling a good story.

Also, fuck this bitch for stealing literally every scene that should've been given to Leia.


but i digress, forced gender politics is the least of this poorly written movies problems.

EVERY_SCENE_IS_SHIT

Reactions: Like 1


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## Disquiet (Jan 3, 2018)

It did strike me as a little odd that Holdo's outfit, as a highly-ranked member of a militarised, run-down resistance movement, was basically an evening dress. I was too distracted by her name to think about that too much, though: I was sure "Holdo" was the BDSM man from Soul Calibur (turns out it's Voldo).

As for her stealing potential Leia scenes, they'd have had to tell a different story to replace her with Leia. They needed Holdo's position to be filled by someone the audience doesn't trust (i.e. a new character) so that we would be on Poe's side when he mutinies.

Leia was wasted in this movie though, sure.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Disquiet said:


> It did strike me as a little odd that Holdo's outfit, as a highly-ranked member of a militarised, run-down resistance movement, was basically an evening dress. I was too distracted by her name to think about that too much, though


Wasn't she a former member of the Republic?


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## Clowe (Jan 3, 2018)

Finally got around to watching the movie yesterday, didn't know what to expect when I heard of the mixed response from fans, but after seeing, yeah, I understand what's up, this is a really weird movie.

Not gonna lie, in a bizarre kind of way, I actually enjoyed it more than TFA, I just found it more interesting. Nevertheless my reaction was also kind of mixed overall, I felt conflicted when leaving the theater to say the least. there some things that I liked and some other I didn't. I'm probably gonna repeat a lot of statement that you have heard ad nauseaum at this point however...

Things I liked

Visually, this movie is amazing, to say that it's probably the best looking SW movie is not an exaggeration, it's fucking gorgeous. An achievement in visual storytelling.
The score is a step up from the last movie's adequeate but forgettable soundtrack.
I like some of the things that have been done with Kylo's character in this movie, a huge step up from his poor performance from the last movie, I enjoyed his character here more.
Same can be said with Poe, a lot more fleshed out this time around, and even when he's fucks up you can understand where he's coming from.
The lightsaber action scene was an improvement over the last film's which I found quite dissapointing, the choreagraphy was a lot better, and it was just a lot cooler, although, given that the enemies were faceless goons, tension was severely lacking unfortunately.

Things I disliked.

The complete and utter character assassination of Luke Skywalker, his character has been tainted, defiled, violated and destroyed, now this didn't affect me too much because I was never really that attached to his character, I didn't grow up with the OT, but for people who did, damn, I feel for you.
Pointless subplots that lead nowhere and take too much time.
Set ups from the last movie thrown out the window and completely disregarded.
Rose is terrible and cringeworthy.
Holdo's poor communication skills, I didn't dislike her character per se, she actually lead to one of the coolest moments in the movie, which I appreciated, but the conflict regarding her could have easily been resolved with words.
Rey is still a dull, boring Mary Sue-esque character, in this regard, she's even worse than in the last movie.
Unresolved and unexplained things.
Leia's flying scene was horrendous, My respect for Carrie Fisher, may she rest in peace, but, WTF was that?
I don't understand what Finn's purpose in this trilogy is, what does he bring to the table?
The spaceship chase was incredibly contrived, boring and just a terrible idea, I don't understand how that got approved.

If I were to give it a rating it would be like a 6, but that's mostly due to how good it looks, most of it's problems concern plot, writing and characters, and those are big problems. I do respect the movie for attempting different things and taking risks, but at the same time, it plays it safe and sticks to conventions in a lot of areas, which makes it feel, kind of disjointed?

Like I said, it's a weird movie.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucaniel (Jan 3, 2018)

Clowe said:


> his character has been tainted, defiled, violated and destroyed


listen i didn't like seeing him drink alien titty milk either but this seems like a bit much


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2018)

Stunna said:


> Maul is super inoffensive. He can't be the worst character because he barely is one; he's more of a bestial force of nature that exists just to oppose the heroes. I don't have a problem with him.



Agreed, that was pretty much his purpose in TPM anyways. He was the big boss of the starting act, just a menacing competent villain who is depicted as this lethal enemy and has an impact on killing one of the main characters and setting up the chain of events giving just enough backdrop in his few lines about the Sith. That was all that was needed even if he was underutilized and enough fan demand fleshed him out when he got brought back in the CGI Clone Wars series.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> listen i didn't like seeing him drink alien titty milk either but this seems like a bit much


I still laugh at the animal's reaction Rey while he was doing that.  "The fuck you lookin at bitch?"  Maybe more like this

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 3, 2018)

Maul should never had been brought back for Rebels, it was an absolute disgrace the way they treated him.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I think JLU did Wonder Woman and The Question very well. Wonder Woman's feminism and the Question's Randian Objectivism are both very slight. Wonder Woman has that perfume store scene and the Question gives a subtle reference to Lex Luthor in his "A is A" speech. Superman went to Apokalips in Superman: TAS and he literally made god bleed, but at no point did Superman start quoting Nietzche.


I don't have a specific problem with politics in my superheroes.

Green Arrow's borderline obnoxious Liberalism made the character more flawed and three-dimensionsional than his previous Robin Hood-inspired incarnation.

The Question's more conservative and objectivist nature does the same too.

Problem comes with the fact that it's incredibly easy to mishandle something like a political ideology. 

Wonder Woman is one such example. The Golden Age had an assload of downright creepy moments in regards to her talks of willful submission and willful _slavery_. 

Brian Azzarello's Wonder Woman isn't perfect, but one of its best moments what when he tackled her views on submission in the last arc, transforming it into an ideology that coincided with Wonder Woman's views on Peace and Love.

Same can't be said with Marvel. They've been shoving their particular version of left-wing politics in what I can only assume to be a misguided attempt to cater towards Millenials and the like.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> listen i didn't like seeing him drink alien titty milk either but this seems like a bit much


I still laugh at the animal's reaction Rey while he was doing that.  "The fuck you lookin at bitch?"  Maybe more like this


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Same can't be said with Marvel. They've been shoving their particular version of left-wing politics in what I can only assume to be a misguided attempt to cater towards Millenials and the like.



Its definitely extremely transparent in general with a lot of Hollywood movies these days, especially action movies. The sort of nonsensical far left super progressivism shit is hugely there. Look at what Star Wars has come to with this, instead of having fuck tons of vividly designed and interesting looking aliens, Disney Star Wars takes that to the backseat to just push more human looking fuckers while pandering to fatties like with the Vietnamese chick who plays Rose. The escapism for fun is gone in place of over-bearingly annoyingly forced social commentary.


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

Disquiet said:


> I suppose that's part of it, in a sense. He's a blundering cartoon villain, and everything that comes out of his mouth is embarrassing. He would fit right into a Marvel movie, but I don't particularly like Marvel movies.
> 
> Yes, this, basically.
> 
> ...


You can't take the fight which is cool because of Darth Maul, Qui and Obi are the ones who made it cool. Same as the lightsaber. They are traits that are apart of his character and it worked because of Darth Maul and the others. His role was done. He wasn't meant to be Darth Vader. 

It's fine that they changed that and gave him more characterization in other canon and non-canon material but his purpose was originally served and he did it fine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gunners (Jan 3, 2018)

I don't have a problem with films presenting their progressive views but when they use it as a means of putting themselves on a high horse, I will look at the role played by the brother. 

*Beaten with a stick when Rey took him for a crook. 
*Tasered when trying to leave the plantation. 
*Supposed to be a skilled soldier, but his experience as janitor is the only thing that matters. 
*Beaten up by Brienne of Tarth 
*Slapped in the face and he was waiting on his knees. 
*Romancing a fatty. 

Does make me feel a kind of way when only white women are benefiting from their push.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Technically the fatty was sweet on him.  Plus he cucked Rey a bit at the end.  How do you think she felt when he was watching over the girl's body the same way Rey did to him?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2018)

The only one that got cucked was Finn.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 3, 2018)

Gunners said:


> Does make me feel a kind of way when only white women are benefiting from their push.



Tell that to Phasma, or does the armour suddenly negate all that?


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## Zef (Jan 3, 2018)

Finn, and female Shrek is a forced relationship tbh.

I'm mad RJ wasted his character arc by making him play sidekick to a girl a second time.

At least when he was sidekick to Rey he was somewhat relevant. Here he's sidekick to someone no one gives a shit about, and who's plot doesn't matter.

I'm guessing he'll be either Rey, or  Shrek's sidekick in episode 9. Why change the formula amirite?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2018)

He ACTUALLY wants to dick down Rey, too. Finn spent the majority of his screentime thinking about how he was going to get to her.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Zef said:


> female Shrek


Why not just say Fiona?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2018)

Zef said:


> Finn, and female Shrek is a forced relationship tbh.
> 
> I'm mad RJ wasted his character arc by making him play sidekick to a girl a second time.
> 
> ...



She reminds me of someone else:

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi both suffer from a serious case of telling and not showing.

Remember when Rey told Finn what a great shot he was. She said this after the gun jammed and she literally flipped the Falcon over to aim the gun for Finn. Rey did everything and Finn only pressed a button.

Remember when Finn said Poe is such a great pilot after doing a run at Maz Kanata's place. Why was he shouting about the pilot so much during a run on a ground structure?

Remember when Rose called Finn a hero. Why? Yes it was heroic how defended an unconscious Rey, but that was about it. His actions don't warrant that level of blatant hero worship.

Don't piss on my head and call it rain.


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## Zef (Jan 3, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Why not just say Fiona?


That would be an insult to Fiona.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 3, 2018)

Gunners said:


> I don't have a problem with films presenting their progressive views but when they use it as a means of putting themselves on a high horse, I will look at the role played by the brother.


Not to mention that Disney completely ignore the entire existence of *Lando* too.

So much for being progressive


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Remember when Rey told Finn what a great shot he was. She said this after the gun jammed and she literally flipped the Falcon over to aim the gun for Finn.


Showing that he's a great shot..


Ben Grimm said:


> Remember when Finn said Poe is such a great pilot after doing a run at Maz Kanata's place. Why was he shouting about the pilot so much during a run on a ground structure?


Because he could? We have loads of proof that Poe is a great pilot.


Ben Grimm said:


> Remember when Rose called Finn a hero. Why? Yes it was heroic how defended an unconscious Rey, but that was about it. His actions don't warrant that level of blatant hero worship.


That's the joke..

Heroes are usually exaggerated when their story is heard by an outsider. Finn has a history of heroic deeds. But before the final act of TLJ--his heroism was usually  done for selfish reasons .


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Its definitely extremely transparent in general with a lot of Hollywood movies these days, especially action movies. The sort of nonsensical far left super progressivism shit is hugely there. Look at what Star Wars has come to with this, instead of having fuck tons of vividly designed and interesting looking aliens, Disney Star Wars takes that to the backseat to just push more human looking fuckers while pandering to fatties like with the Vietnamese chick who plays Rose. The escapism for fun is gone in place of over-bearingly annoyingly forced social commentary.



Porkins and the entire squadron from a New Hope were humans. You telling me Porkins was skinny? Though I sort of chalk up the use of so many humans to the budget and special effect from back in the day.

But yeah...its really sad how Star Wars has forgotten they have aliens.

The only place you can find non-humans playing a major role these days is TMNT.


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Showing that he's a great shot..
> 
> Because he could? We have had loads of proof that Poe is a great pilot.
> 
> ...



But he didn't show anything special in that scene, Rey did.

There was nothing particularly special about the run Poe did in that scene.

There is nothing even worth exaggerating about, realistically Rey would have been talked up not Finn.


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## The Runner (Jan 3, 2018)

Disquiet said:


> I still don't understand why people like Darth Maul. Is it just the lightsaber? It is a cool lightsaber, I'll admit that, but the guy holding it is a complete non-entity who looks like a goofy clown.


He's 2-Dimensional to be sure

But the Make-Up was on point. Dude looked like the fucking devil with a double lightsaber.

And he did his job as a villain in that movie, even managed to succeed to kill Qui-Gon.

He sure as hell was more impressive than fucking Boba Fett


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> But he didn't show anything special in that scene, Rey did.


You think hitting still shot while an aircraft is flipping upside down is a small feat?



Ben Grimm said:


> There was nothing particularly special about the run Poe did in that scene


The scene where he consecutively shoots down 3 or 4 ships?


Ben Grimm said:


> There is nothing even worth exaggerating about, realistically Rey would have been talked up not Finn.


Nah disagree. It could be said that Finn flew to rescue Rey and helped to protect her from Kylo. I believe Rose told an exaggerated version of what occurred when she first realized who he was.


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## The Runner (Jan 3, 2018)

Fang said:


> Its definitely extremely transparent in general with a lot of Hollywood movies these days, especially action movies. The sort of nonsensical far left super progressivism shit is hugely there. Look at what Star Wars has come to with this, instead of having fuck tons of vividly designed and interesting looking aliens, Disney Star Wars takes that to the backseat to just push more human looking fuckers while pandering to fatties like with the Vietnamese chick who plays Rose. *The escapism for fun is gone in place of over-bearingly annoyingly forced social commentary.*


It's so fucking hollow

The whole side-story with Finn and Rose couldn't be anymore hackneyed if they were replaced by Captain Planet villains.

And the thing with the Porgs are clearly a cynical move to sell merchandise,


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> You think hitting still shot while an aircraft is flipping upside down is a small feat?


The gun was jammed. Rey aimed it for him and he pressed the button.



> The scene where he consecutively shoots down 3 or 4 ships?



Just rewatched the scene, it was 8 or 9. 

My bad, the scene was confusing in theaters. I made a mistake.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Not to mention that Disney completely ignore the entire existence of *Lando* too.
> 
> So much for being progressive


Now now the trilogy isn't over yet.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The gun was jammed. Rey aimed it for him and he pressed the button.



The gun jammed. Rey  turned off the ship . Finn fired.


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## Glued (Jan 3, 2018)

I can believe Luke had fallen, but I don't think he'd ever come close to harming Ben. 

This is the man who tried to redeem Vader of all people.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 3, 2018)



Reactions: Like 2


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I can believe Luke had fallen, but I don't think he'd ever come close to harming Ben.
> 
> This is the man who tried to redeem Vader of all people.


it's like what @~Gesy~ said; his dad was fuckin space Hitler and he still wanted to save him, even allowing himself to be killed by the Emperor on the off chance he'd be swayed.

His nephew has anger issues and its suddeny time to put him down?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Atlas (Jan 3, 2018)

Leave Lando alone. I'd hate to see another OT character get treated like trash. I mean, Lando is an OT character _and_ black!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Gunners (Jan 3, 2018)

I could understand Luke's reaction but it would have been easier if we saw how real the visions actually are.

From what I gathered he raised his sword in response to what seemed like a vivid attack. And in a moment, he put it down.

Calling a spade a spade, the Skywalkers were late to the game when it comes to the Jefi business. They're not immune to fear.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

Luke *didn't* want to kill Kylo tho 

that was literally just one fleeting reflexive thought that vanished in an instant

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

Kylos reaction is natural

Im saying that "this Luke is no longer the Luke we knew from the OT" because he a youngling slayer or some shit isnt correct

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 3, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I can believe Luke had fallen, but I don't think he'd ever come close to harming Ben.
> 
> This is the man who tried to redeem Vader of all people.



Luke took his hand off and came close to killing Vader when Leia was threatened.  He feared what Vader might do to her, and so he lashed out.  

With Ben, he saw the extent to which Snoke had corrupted Ben's heart with darkness, darkness which Luke had seen in glimpses during Ben's training in the past, but only acted on reflexive fear for a fleeting moment, and he was immediately ashamed.  

It is a fatal flaw to his character: he lets emotion get the better of him if those he cares about are threatened.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Gunners said:


> From what I gathered he raised his sword in response to what seemed like a vivid attack. And in a moment, he put it down


From what I gathered he was having those visions for a while and only chickened out when it was time to do the deed.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 3, 2018)

thats why they trained those jedi boys up from a very young age 

Luke didnt have that


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## Gunners (Jan 3, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> From what I gathered he was having those visions for a while and only chickened out when it was time to do the deed.


I thought he sensed the darkness in Ben for a while and saw the visions for the first time in the hut.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 3, 2018)

Gunners said:


> I thought he sensed the darkness in Ben for a while and saw the visions for the first time in the hut.


You could be right. I've only seen the movie once on opening weekend. But there was always a darkness in Ben. It was why he sent to Luke in the first place. Whatever he seen shouldn't have surprised him enough to turn on his nephew imo.


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## Stunna (Jan 3, 2018)

Yeah, Kylo already had Dark Side tendencies prior to being trained by Luke, and the Jedi training did little to temper them. Luke, paranoid at the idea of failing as the last Jedi, and intimidated by the influence of Snoke he sensed in Ben, had a split-second lapse in judgment that resulted in the reflexive ignition of his lightsaber.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 3, 2018)

>test the mental state of your already deranged nephew whose giving you visions of mini-Vader 2.0 all over again
>out of character think about killing him for a second
>Ben freaks out and then justifies Luke's thought of wanting to kill him anyways by slaughtering the rest of the apprentices and taking the handful of others he cajoled/forced into joining him to run off to the First Order and see Snoke
>whose already implied to be influencing him before all this

Its kind of nonsensical

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 3, 2018)

Okay, before I start replying to any of us, is anyone else having difficulty following Orochibuto's writing? I can't decide if he's being incoherent or if I'm just too exhausted after a large, shitty day of work to give him my undivided attention, but I can't decipher any of this. If it is just me, sorry if I misunderstand anything.



Orochibuto said:


> Wrong, I have never said I have a problem with her being female, I have a problem with the overall feminism bullshit being shoved upon this franchise, a franchise that so far is delivering garbage like The Last Jedi.
> 
> I left a review where I stated exactly what my problems with the film is, I explicitily stated that the feminism/social justice shit is the lesser of the shit I disliked and that it was so bad that I wish, this was the shit I was complaining about.
> 
> Yet you want to paint it as "Y-you are only mad that we have female protagonists!" when I never stated that.



First off, please stop the the implied stutter when paraphrasing things I say, as it makes you seem like a Fang wannabe and desperate. The only times I have ever been taken aback by your posts is when you see something (that I perceive to be) borderline offensive. The problem with the rest of your point here is that even though you're now saying that the 'feminism/social justice shit'...which you still don't the meaning of...was among the lesser problems of the movie, you're lingering on it. Most of your posts are attacks- often personal- on KK for her feminist agenda, not for any other flaws.



> You even went as far as quoting a post completely unrelated to this issue and that was not even addressed to you where I said that I went to the cinema wanting to like it and making me biased in favor of it on purpose, and that I had even prepared myself for the worst stuff I could imagine happening in the film. Your reply to it was basically "I think you are lying and didnt wanted to like it because you point out the feminist shit."



Because you obsess over the 'feminist shit'. At least with Imagine, Fang, Raging Boner or the other detractors, they balance it out with the other problems they have with the movie. With you, it's always the same issue, so I have to assume that any film with a feminist agenda will bother you.



> I have seen this pattern among the defenders of this movie (not all of them, mind you), you try to dismiss criticism of the movie as alt-right trolls, discredit them saying they went to watch it with the intent of hating it, or that they not liking it is all centered on that.
> 
> Guess what? People can complain about the feminist stance of the films and still have other reasons they didnt liked it, it doesnt even have to be the main reason they didnt liked the film. It doesnt invalidate their arguments. They disliking something that you think should not be disliked, does not make them trolls. But I guess its easier to think that, than coming to terms with all the fuck ups of this movie.
> 
> I even stated multiple times what I despised the most abouy TLJ: Crylo.



I have no problem with people not liking the movie. Even before I realized this thread could be such a shitstorm, I was posting in my initial reactions towards the film that it was going to be divisive. Even though I don't really care for some of the attitudes here, I will thoroughly admit that some of the flaws Fang or Imagine pointed out did not occur to me. I've always wanted a discussion, both with fans and detractors. I have accused a lot of people here for just wanting the 'same ole shit', but you're the only one I've accused of being sexist. Because you come across as sexist in your ramblings.




> Heres the thing, having an agenda is NOT okay and it is valid criticism. The audience tolerates, puts up with your agenda because you deliver a good product, deliver garbage (like The Last Jedi), and your agenda is going to rightly get shit on. Which is exactly what I stated in my review, I would had been willing to overlook the social justice/feminist shit if I got a good product, I didnt, this leads me to question harder the film makers, including the ideology they are driving SW with.



Okay, this is a good point. But then maybe you should focus on the films failures and less on the ideology of the filmmakers. Consider this- a civil rights activist turned director makes a movie that promotes racial equality, but the movie sucks. Are you going to harp on him for being a civil rights activist? Are you going to say things like 'civil rights bullshit'? If you do, you're at least going to be accused of being a racist. But if you just focus on the product, then you're being a critic.



> Secondly, a lot of these world were built FROM THE SCRATCH with that agenda, it comes as normal and organic in that world. You can't come to an already established universe and suddenly shove up your agenda in the setting.



Yes you can, actually. Especially as George Lucas himself technically started the feminist message with the characterization of Leia.



> Third, its about the way you present it. These worlds can make us agree with what the director or writer want us to, without preaching it to us. In short: show, don't tell. I don't need the director of Avatar to start throwing shit using official Avatar logos to take pro-environmentalist stances, then double down and say "The bad guys are humans and the good guys are environmentalists hurr derp!" I don't need him to come wearing dumb shirts saying "God is nature".
> 
> Fourth, there is a difference between subtly leaving a message in a movie and making a movie TO leave the message. KK flatout stated that the MOST important thing to her is the agenda.



I think I agree with this, but your example doesn't work because at no point in TFA, TLJ or RO does gender ever come up. No one talks about feminism or gender equality or...even gender, really. You say 'show, don't tell', but the movie never told us anything about feminism. It just showed the female characters being competent and bad-ass, while the male characters have absolutely no problem with their genders because in the future no one cares.[/quote]

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 3, 2018)

Imagine said:


> He's just a bumbling pencil pusher. How Snoke allowed him to get in such a position of power is baffling. The entire character was set up for a bunch of MCU lite character interactions.
> 
> Darth Maul was underdeveloped (in the movie) but did what he needed to do in his role which was to be a cool villain and offer a cool fight.
> 
> ...



Hux having such a position of power is baffling, especially as the movie itself constantly draws attention to his incompetence. I actually liked that Captain who gruffly tells him off when Hux demands why they hadn't blasted Poe. Snoke says something like "Weakness can be useful", but I'd say an experienced leader would be more useful. 

He's no Tarkin.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2018)

"Women should have the right to breastfeed in public"

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, before I start replying to any of us, is anyone else having difficulty following Orochibuto's writing? I can't decide if he's being incoherent or if I'm just too exhausted after a large, shitty day of work to give him my undivided attention, but I can't decipher any of this. If it is just me, sorry if I misunderstand anything.



The butthurt is legendary here . You must be really triggered, I have seen a lot of hillarious shit in this forum, I have never seen someone use a "Someone, please come and tell you agree with me! Come on, tell him something! Comment on this!"



MartialHorror said:


> First off, please stop the the implied stutter when paraphrasing things I say, as it makes you seem like a Fang wannabe and desperate.



I don't know man, I think the guy that is flatout asking other people to help him is the desperate one. The stutter is completely valid, because you had to retreat from your previous position, and instead of conceding you doubled down. Now it has turned so bad you are subtly asking people to come and bash me and support you . You increasingly lose control and become clearly angrier each time.

You stated or implied that there was no feminist agenda in the films and that people who said it existed were trolls. And now that you can't no longer hold that stance you resort to "Okay yes, why do you care?! Its fine! Its normal!"



MartialHorror said:


> The only times I have ever been taken aback by your posts is when you see something (that I perceive to be) borderline offensive.



So you got offended? 



MartialHorror said:


> The problem with the rest of your point here is that even though you're now saying that the 'feminism/social justice shit'...which you still don't the meaning of...was among the lesser problems of the movie, you're lingering on it. Most of your posts are attacks- often personal- on KK for her feminist agenda, not for any other flaws.






MartialHorror said:


> Because you obsess over the 'feminist shit'. At least with Imagine, Fang, Raging Boner or the other detractors, they balance it out with the other problems they have with the movie. With you, it's always the same issue, so I have to assume that any film with a feminist agenda will bother you.





MartialHorror said:


> I have no problem with people not liking the movie. Even before I realized this thread could be such a shitstorm, I was posting in my initial reactions towards the film that it was going to be divisive. Even though I don't really care for some of the attitudes here, I will thoroughly admit that some of the flaws Fang or Imagine pointed out did not occur to me. I've always wanted a discussion, both with fans and detractors. I have accused a lot of people here for just wanting the 'same ole shit', but you're the only one I've accused of being sexist. Because you come across as sexist in your ramblings.





MartialHorror said:


> Consider this- a civil rights activist turned director makes a movie that promotes racial equality, but the movie sucks. Are you going to harp on him for being a civil rights activist? Are you going to say things like 'civil rights bullshit'? If you do, you're at least going to be accused of being a racist. But if you just focus on the product, then you're being a critic.



Are you comparing third wave feminism with civil rights? 

Are you saying everyone who doesn't like feminism is automatically a sexist? If you are one of those types, then it explains a lot.



MartialHorror said:


> Okay, this is a good point. But then maybe you should focus on the films failures and less on the ideology of the filmmakers.



Maybe the filmmakers should not go out of their way to link their ideology to the movies. If they do it then their ideology is going to be linked to the failure of the movies.



MartialHorror said:


> Yes you can, actually. Especially as George Lucas himself technically started the feminist message with the characterization of Leia.



Wrong, Leia's character was not about feminism. Which is actually what makes it cool, Leia was cool in the OT on her own, not because an ideologue wanted to make her look cool. It was organic, it was natural, it fit. Which is you know, what happens when you introduce elements in a film to create a good film and not to shove in your ideology.

Compare Leia's character development to Mary Sue Rey.

Which is actually something else I was going to mention. They want to push a female empowerment crap, and they don't even do it right, which is actually common in ideologues. See how Marvel was run to the ground in the comics department by exactly the same shit.

They had Leia, a Skywalker that could had been badass as fuck and would make perfect sense. They had Phasma, a badass stormtrooper that was nigh-universally liked. Yet all of this got sent to the trash and they prefered to insert a Mary Sue whose power makes no sense. We could had seen a badass Leia that was trained by Luke even if weaker than him kicking asses. For example, it would had been ultra badass to see Leia using Battle Meditation to pull a series of Alexander The Great style victories over the First Order using the way smaller resistance and show how much she grew as a leader and general since the days of the OT. Instead they made her fly like Superman.



MartialHorror said:


> I think I agree with this, but your example doesn't work because at no point in TFA, TLJ or RO does gender ever come up. No one talks about feminism or gender equality or...even gender, really. You say 'show, don't tell', but the movie never told us anything about feminism. It just showed the female characters being competent and bad-ass, while the male characters have absolutely no problem with their genders because in the future no one cares.


[/QUOTE]

This is no one but KK's fault. She admitted her ideology comes first and filmmaking second. She blatantly linked Star Wars to feminist crap in an implication worse , she allowed directors to use official SW materials to take sides in the 2016 fiasco and then double down with shit like "The bad guys are white men and the good guys a multicultural group led by women!"

Im sorry, but you don't get to do that shit and then complain when people DO take that shit in count when bashing your movies. Specially when you do shit that can be linked to your ideology like introducing a Mary Sue main character with a nonsencial explanation for her power and make the female characters look good at the expense of the male characters.

No, it didn't showed female characters being badass, it showed ridiculous situations in their zeal to make badass female characters. Rey's power making no sense and doing feats superior to Luke Skywalker in Episode 4 and 5, Admiral Tumblr looking incompetent by not explaining her plan to Poe, Leia flying like Superman with no explanation or exposition, Rose ruining Finn's badass death, etc.


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## Magic (Jan 4, 2018)



Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Glued (Jan 4, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> No, it didn't showed female characters being badass, it showed ridiculous situations in their zeal to make badass female characters. Rey's power making no sense and doing feats superior to Luke Skywalker in Episode 4 and 5, Admiral Tumblr looking incompetent by not explaining her plan to Poe, Leia flying like Superman with no explanation or exposition, Rose ruining Finn's badass death, etc.



To be fair, if Finn died in today's climate, the sheer vitriol and outrage would have buried Lucas Films.


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## Gunners (Jan 4, 2018)

@Orochibuto does have a chip on his shoulder. Putting Star Wars to the side, he is a fucked up, creepy, degenerate.


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## Fang (Jan 4, 2018)

lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 2


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## Lucaniel (Jan 4, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> The Question's more conservative and objectivist nature does the same too.


so did you have a problem with it when he got reinvented as a good character by o'neil


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## Suigetsu (Jan 4, 2018)

Looks like Disney it's on full damage control about Nu-wars.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 4, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> To be fair, if Finn died in today's climate, the sheer vitriol and outrage would have buried Lucas Films.


so better to have him be a space buffoon with magical inside knowledge of every secret project because he used to mop floors...than die a heroic death and sacrifice himself for a greater cause_because he's _black_?

that's some backwards shit thinking right there. Fuck these millennial scum licking bitch-made pussies


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## The Runner (Jan 4, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> so did you have a problem with it when he got reinvented as a good character by o'neil


>reinvented

Is that what you call it?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 4, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> The butthurt is legendary here . You must be really triggered, I have seen a lot of hillarious shit in this forum, I have never seen someone use a "Someone, please come and tell you agree with me! Come on, tell him something! Comment on this!"
> 
> I don't know man, I think the guy that is flatout asking other people to help him is the desperate one. The stutter is completely valid, because you had to retreat from your previous position, and instead of conceding you doubled down. Now it has turned so bad you are subtly asking people to come and bash me and support you . You increasingly lose control and become clearly angrier each time.



What did I tell you about putting words in my mouth? I simply find your posts incoherent and difficult to follow. Even now, I have to re-read them multiple times to understand wtf you're talking about. I wasn't expecting anyone else to take sides against you, as you seem friendly with the majority of the more active detractors. If it is only me who has difficulty understanding you, then I'd assume I need to start reading these posts on my day off.  



> You stated or implied that there was no feminist agenda in the films and that people who said it existed were trolls. And now that you can't no longer hold that stance you resort to "Okay yes, why do you care?! Its fine! Its normal!"
> So you got offended?



I stated or implied? One is rooted in fact and the other is interpretive, so if you really want to push this point, find a quote. My own position on SW is, has and probably always will be that it's agenda is not rooted in feminism as much as its rooted in diversity, but even if it is pushing a feminist agenda, who cares? 


> Are you comparing third wave feminism with civil rights?
> 
> Are you saying everyone who doesn't like feminism is automatically a sexist? If you are one of those types, then it explains a lot.



Nice way of dodging the question, but feminism is ultimately about equal rights amongst the genders. There are certainly those who take the ideologies to destructive levels, but any belief system will have those kinds of problems, so let me ask you this. What do you think feminism is and do you dislike it? Because after the whole 'Holdo is an SJW' thing, I just don't believe you understand what these things are.




> Maybe the filmmakers should not go out of their way to link their ideology to the movies. If they do it then their ideology is going to be linked to the failure of the movies.



So once again, if a filmmaker is making a movie about racial discrimination and it sucks, does that mean the message is the problem? Please don't dodge the question this time. 



> Wrong, Leia's character was not about feminism. Which is actually what makes it cool, Leia was cool in the OT on her own, not because an ideologue wanted to make her look cool. It was organic, it was natural, it fit. Which is you know, what happens when you introduce elements in a film to create a good film and not to shove in your ideology.



First off, you assume too much about these people. Whether Kennedy, Abrams, Johnson or Edwards are hacks or geniuses, they are all going to want to make a good movie. That was, is an always will be the goal because good movies are more likely to make a lot of money. Furthermore, what counts as a 'natural fit' is highly subjective. If I was around during WW2 and I saw "Star Wars" and recognized that iconic shot of the Storm Troopers marching and recognized it as the exact same shot from that famous Nazi documentary, I might think Lucas is being too political. We don't notice because most of us aren't familiar with said Nazi documentary, so don't make the correlation. Lucas has always been political, often to the detriment of his movies, so why would you assume he's not a feminist when Leia is such a feminist archetype? She's a princess, but she's a leader. She needs to be rescued, but then she ends up taking the weapons from the male heroes and fighting back. You know that back when the movie came out, there was some asshole who felt female empowerment- an issue that was more controversial back then- was being shoved down our throats.  



> Compare Leia's character development to Mary Sue Rey.
> 
> Which is actually something else I was going to mention. They want to push a female empowerment crap, and they don't even do it right, which is actually common in ideologues. See how Marvel was run to the ground in the comics department by exactly the same shit.
> 
> They had Leia, a Skywalker that could had been badass as fuck and would make perfect sense. They had Phasma, a badass stormtrooper that was nigh-universally liked. Yet all of this got sent to the trash and they prefered to insert a Mary Sue whose power makes no sense. We could had seen a badass Leia that was trained by Luke even if weaker than him kicking asses. For example, it would had been ultra badass to see Leia using Battle Meditation to pull a series of Alexander The Great style victories over the First Order using the way smaller resistance and show how much she grew as a leader and general since the days of the OT. Instead they made her fly like Superman.



These might be problems with the movie, but they're not about a feminist agenda. Rey is a simplified version of Luke in that she develops powers when the plot requires it of her. This would've been a problem even if the protagonist was male. Phasma almost contradicts your point, as she was built up to be the ultimate bad-ass but ended up being a somewhat comedic red herring. "TLJ" wanted to put the resistance in a corner, so it wouldn't make sense for Leia to have a series of Alexander the Great styled victories and lets face it...Leia was clearly being used to put Poe over (who *gasp* is a male!). The ending of TLJ has her pretty much shrugging and following the GUY who probably did not even deserve it at that point. This is partially because the new trilogy want to use the old cast to put over the new and...we all love Carrie Fischer, but she was not a great actress. They were always going to be limited with what they could do with her, even before she died. None of this has anything to do with feminism. 



> This is no one but KK's fault. She admitted her ideology comes first and filmmaking second. She blatantly linked Star Wars to feminist crap in an implication worse , she allowed directors to use official SW materials to take sides in the 2016 fiasco and then double down with shit like "The bad guys are white men and the good guys a multicultural group led by women!"
> 
> Im sorry, but you don't get to do that shit and then complain when people DO take that shit in count when bashing your movies. Specially when you do shit that can be linked to your ideology like introducing a Mary Sue main character with a nonsencial explanation for her power and make the female characters look good at the expense of the male characters.
> 
> No, it didn't showed female characters being badass, it showed ridiculous situations in their zeal to make badass female characters. Rey's power making no sense and doing feats superior to Luke Skywalker in Episode 4 and 5, Admiral Tumblr looking incompetent by not explaining her plan to Poe, Leia flying like Superman with no explanation or exposition, Rose ruining Finn's badass death, etc.



I highly doubt KK told these filmmakers to make Rey ridiculously broken or to have Holdo emasculate Poe. If you assume so, it's become you just don't like her. She didn't write the scripts. She is not a director. She probably was responsible for Rey being a female, but if you read/watch JJ Abrams interviews during the build-up to the release of TFA, it seems like he was responsible for most of the creative decisions that set the groundwork for this trilogy. Rey using more power than Luke from the early movies makes sense simply because special effects no longer have the same kind of limitations, or are you going to bitch about the prequels and newer movies having better light saber choreography than 'Obi Wan Vs Vader' from the first film? 'Leia flying like Superman' was obviously just her using the force. Keep in mind, the OT had Luke doing some pretty crazy jumps and the prequels took that even farther, with TPM showing they can move with super human speed. Why couldn't Obi Wan or Vader do that in the OT? Because special effects can do more now and the filmmakers are trying to find new ways of using the force. Holdo not explaining her plan to Poe and Rose ruining Finn's death might've been stupid, but none of this has anything to do with feminism. At worst, it's just bad writing that would've been just as bad if these characters were dudes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 4, 2018)

Ugh, I'm spending way too much time responding to someone who doesn't even know the meanings of the words he uses...Maybe you guys are right. "Star Wars" is no longer fun.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jan 4, 2018)

Thorin said:


> TPM had Liam Neeson
> 
> and the pod race wasn't bad.



I also like the fish monsters and the underwater Gungan city.

I think Gungans could have been interesting with their bio-plasma shields and shock staffs.

Imagine badass Gungans going shield and spear into battle.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 4, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I also like the fish monsters and the underwater Gungan city.
> 
> I think Gungans could have been interesting with their bio-plasma shields and shock staffs.
> 
> Imagine badass Gungans going shield and spear into battle.



Unfortunately, that was all undone by Jar Jar. 

I wonder what role Jar Jar would've played if audiences didn't reject him. Considering Lucas STILL seems fond of him, I have to imagine he would've had a bigger part in Episode 2 and 3.


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## Glued (Jan 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Unfortunately, that was all undone by Jar Jar.
> 
> I wonder what role Jar Jar would've played if audiences didn't reject him. Considering Lucas STILL seems fond of him, I have to imagine he would've had a bigger part in Episode 2 and 3.


Its really telling that Ahmed Best kinda acknowledge the theory as correct.

If you want the condensed version here you go, but I strongly suggest you look at Lockstin Gnoggin's breakdown.


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## Fang (Jan 4, 2018)

"T-the Chinese market will save TLJ"
"Y-you'll see"

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Glued (Jan 4, 2018)

Fang said:


> "T-the Chinese market will save TLJ"
> "Y-you'll see"



Not even Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines could save this film.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 4, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> so better to have him be a space buffoon with magical inside knowledge of every secret project because he used to mop floors...than die a heroic death and sacrifice himself for a greater cause_because he's _black_?



If Finn had died a heroic death, I highly doubt that anyone would have made any comment on his skin color; they would have focused on how awesome and badass he was, and not cared about the ethnicity of the actor who played him.

@The World, from where is that image?


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 4, 2018)

> If _The Last Jedi _(which, like _The Empire Strikes Back _is a terrific _Star Wars _movie without necessarily being a breezy watch) is either too much for the tykes or too much to revisit right away



if i were the editor i woulda slapped this son of a bitch so hard for putting these 2 movies in the same article, let alone the same sentence...

I watched Empire when i was 4 years old; that shit left me shook_but _even then_ i recognized its greatness. I wanted to know how it would end; i cared.

conversely, had my mother watch TLJ while pregnant with me I woulda punched my way outta the womb right there and walked out of the theater


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## Glued (Jan 4, 2018)

The Last Jedi had no edge, especially when you have incompetent Hux, foolish Snoke and emotional Kylo Ren. 

Vader carried the Empire Strikes back by himself.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 4, 2018)

even this toddler knows that every scene is shit

Reactions: Like 3


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

So let me get this straight they fucked Finn over for the Asian Box Office and still didn't get any Chinese Box Office?
They saddled him with that dumb and lets be generous average girl Rose for a whole fucking movie.

Really brilliant KK sacrifice  Black American Box Office at home for  Chinese Box Office abroad then fail to get any Box Office Abroad.

But really I dont have to be a China Expert to tell you this wouldnt sell in China. They didnt get the OT so nostalgia doesnt work on them...beyond that movie was super long and the fight scenes were few and far between. This is B v S all over again overly long dealing with "complex" BS. Without enough Action to sell it in Asia. These are beginner level mistakes.

Where is our resident China Expert @mr_shadow?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> lol



SHE has a Part II? A 4th grader blowing holes in RJ "Masterpiece"...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2018)

TLJ is a failure for its projected profits and for being a Star Wars film.

However, I feel that it needed to have the utter humilliation of being unable to earn more than a spinoff (Rogue One) to truly sink and force Disney to act.

If we want KK to get axed, Solo needs to bomb. Not "bomb for a Star Wars film" or "way less than expected."

But truly bomb. If this happens, I have high confidence in KK being kicked out.


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> TLJ is a failure for its projected profits and for being a Star Wars film.
> 
> However, I feel that it needed to have the utter humilliation of being unable to earn more than a spinoff (Rogue One) to truly sink and force Disney to act.
> 
> ...



I watched Collider and Christian was predicting 500 million. And Christian is usually a shill for Disney and Star Wars which suggest to me he has insider information that this will be a shitshow. I think that do it. But yeah KK has to go, RJ has to go....we need a Visionary not Bean Counter Agenda Pusher.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aeternus (Jan 5, 2018)

It is going to lose to a movie called Ex-File 3: Return of the Exes?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Jan 5, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> It is going to lose to a movie called Ex-File 3: Return of the Exes?


That movie was actually pretty good.


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## Aeternus (Jan 5, 2018)

Mider T said:


> That movie was actually pretty good.


I would watch it just for this title lol


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

Do you guys really think the casting of Rose was to cater to the Chinese audiences?

She's an American and isn't her last name Tran? That's a Vietnamese sounding name. If they were trying to cater to China, they would've cast a Chinese star, which is what "Rogue One" did with Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen. I've yet to see an American of Asian descent sell a lot of tickets in China, although admittedly I haven't really kept up on it so I could be wrong.

If her casting was deliberate for her race, I would assume they were trying to cater to Asian Americans in general, who have been vocal in their irritation for not being given enough roles in Hollywood (as they're either white washed or outsourced to China).

With that said, I do remember a controversy with TFA either downplaying Finn or removing him entirely from the poster in China, which certainly had some racist overtones. Also, if they were trying to cater to China, they wouldn't have had Rose kiss him because for some reason Chinese movies are really uncomfortable with interracial kissing ("Kong: Skull Island" and "The Great Wall"). I don't know if it's Chinese audiences who don't like it, or if the studios are afraid the Chinese Government will block its release. Pretty fucked up though. 

I feel like the movie industry sucks up to China WAY too much just for the sake of profit.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Imagine (Jan 5, 2018)

I think she was generally added just for the sake of diversity. That's what Disney and Marvel do a lot. There is probably claim to that reasoning when looking at Rouge One, I guess.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2018)

>anyone being surprised interracial overtones and mix racing messages not flying in China


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

Imagine said:


> I think she was generally added just for the sake of diversity. That's what Disney and Marvel do a lot. There is probably claim to that reasoning when looking at Rouge One, I guess.



At least Donnie Yen was an inspired choice, especially as he's right now at his most famous and unlike Jackie Chan and Jet Li, his english is really good. Honestly, I'm surprised Hollywood isn't trying to push him more. He's the only good part about "xXx 3".


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## Glued (Jan 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> >anyone being surprised interracial overtones and mix racing messages not flying in China



True, though The Wolverine did alright in Japan.

What does Wolverine have that Japanese like? *scratches head*


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## U mad bro (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> True, though The Wolverine did alright in Japan.
> 
> What does Wolverine have that Japanese like? *scratches head*


Better looking Japanese women as their actresses vs that thing called rose.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Jan 5, 2018)

U mad bro said:


> Better looking Japanese women as their actresses vs that thing called rose.



It made 1.86 million in its opening weekend. It was alright, just not bad. 7.5 million in total.


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## U mad bro (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> It made 1.86 million in its opening weekend. It was alright, just not bad.


I really don't care about the money talk. If a franchise is big enough it will sell itself.


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## Jake CENA (Jan 5, 2018)

please close this thread already


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 5, 2018)

Sounds like much of the stuff in the films were concepts Lucas himself originally pitched.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

So much for "blame KK for everything", considering it looked like the backbone of this story came from Lucas himself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jake CENA (Jan 5, 2018)

an admin needs to close this thread. it only generated negativity and nonsense bickering.

TLJ sucks ass. that's all you need to know.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Sounds like much of the stuff in the films were concepts Lucas himself originally pitched.



Seems convenient blame deflection also there is the matter of execution. 

Luke being exiled could be a good idea but Luke being exiled because he tried to kill Kylo in his sleep failed the job then ran and hid not so much. 

Besides Pablo is hardly unbiased.

Reactions: Like 4


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Seems convenient blame deflection also there is the matter of execution.
> 
> Luke being exiled could be a good idea but Luke being exiled because he tried to kill Kylo in his sleep failed the job then ran and hid not so much.
> 
> Besides Pablo is hardly unbiased.



It can be convenient for detractors to just dismiss his claims too.

The reason why I think there is some truth to it is Lucas doesn't seem to have any obligation to play nice and could easily shoot his claims down. Didn't he crap on TFA? But who knows. The only thing I had heard about Lucas's original treatment before is that the main characters were supposed to be younger, which doesn't gel with what the link claims. Unless Lucas himself verifies anything, people will either believe the claims or disbelieve them based on their opinions of the movie.


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It can be convenient for detractors to just dismiss his claims too.
> 
> The reason why I think there is some truth to it is Lucas doesn't seem to have any obligation to play nice and could easily shoot his claims down. Didn't he crap on TFA? But who knows. The only thing I had heard about Lucas's original treatment before is that the main characters were supposed to be younger, which doesn't gel with what the link claims. Unless Lucas himself verifies anything, people will either believe the claims or disbelieve them based on their opinions of the movie.



I am just saying its awfully convenient that every thing that causes fan backlash gets blamed on George but they don't seem to give him credit for anything fans like in this movie.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 5, 2018)

the only thing i read about Lucas' ideas was that his new Padawan would be a girl named Kira and that Luke was being tormented by a Sith spirit.

yeah, that sounds like TLJ alright 

these so-called critics are nothing but payed lapdogs who are too scared to have a dissenting opinion because then they won't be invited back to any Disney premiere.

Fucking cowardly frauds.  

Any critic who can't see the glaring laziness and incompetence in this script needs to give up film altogether...because _every scene is shit_: Thematically, structurally, 'narratively' and a few other descriptors I'm certainly forgetting.

I won't even mention lore betrayal because that is subjective fan preference.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> the only thing i read about Lucas' ideas was that his new Padawan would be a girl named Kira and that Luke was being tormented by a Sith spirit.
> 
> yeah, that sounds like TLJ alright
> 
> ...



Course they dont want to miss Avengers: Infinity War Premiere.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2018)

Ironically for all my contempt for Holdo her suicide scene was one of the few scenes I liked.


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## Imagine (Jan 5, 2018)

Sith spirit? 

Sounds very EU


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 5, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Ironically for all my contempt for Holdo her suicide scene was one of the few scenes I liked.


visually amazing sure; but it fucks up the OT

because when you have an evil empire exterminating planets...why exactly don't you have literally endless volunteers willing to lightspeed ram these super destroyers and space lasers?

flash at the expense of sense = hack story telling

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> visually amazing sure; but it fucks up the OT
> 
> because when you have an evil empire exterminating planets...why exactly don't you have literally endless volunteers willing to lightspeed ram these super destroyers and space lasers?
> 
> flash at the expense of sense = hack story telling



Even worse, why wont the Empire do this?

Fuck, why not the Trade Federation? The CIS would had crushed The Republic. Just create an entire fleet of droid manned cruisers and destroy the Republic core worlds with them.

Then again, maybe they would had done it if Sidious didnt set them to lose.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

I'll tell you why the whole kamikaze light speed scene had never been done before


*Spoiler*: __ 



Because none of the filmmakers had previously thought of that idea. It's actually quite common in franchises. Even trilogies...even a certain original trilogy...


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 5, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Fuck, why not the Trade Federation? The CIS would had crushed The Republic. Just create an entire fleet of droid manned cruisers and destroy the Republic core worlds with them.



That depends on whether they'd be willing to waste that amount of resources in the first place.

Furthermore:


While the clip doesn't show the extent of damage a ship the size of _Malevolence_ going light-speed would do, there lies the question of how many ships going at light speed would be required to do the level of damage you are suggesting.


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2018)

What lightspeed ramming in the OT? The only thing that comes to mind is that A-Wing pilot losing control of his fighter and intentionally hitting the downed, DOWNED, bridge shields of the Executor.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> What lightspeed ramming in the OT? The only thing that comes to mind is that A-Wing pilot losing control of his fighter and intentionally hitting the downed, DOWNED, bridge shields of the Executor.



If this is a response to me, I was referring to the lack of continuity (why no character had done this prior; there are issues like that in both trilogies)...although I think most franchises would benefit from a good lightspeed ramming.

I would actually watch the new "Fifty Shades of Grey" if it had a character flying a space ship and using light speed to wreck some shit.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2018)

It kinda throws a few plot holes, but I guess they can solve it latter with some follow up explanation.

Sure it raise questions, but there is no doubt it was a gorgeous scene.

All these details I can forgive or ignore. Its the rape of Luke's character, wasting Snoke like they did and the utter vomitive prospect of Crylo as main villain and the final villain for the main saga of Star Wars. Thats what I cant overlook and what ruined the movie for me.


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## Glued (Jan 5, 2018)

This is an extremely huge problem.

Now that we have light speed ramming, a question will always be asked.

Why don't they just ram them at lightspeed?

This is like Flash always asking Green Lantern why he doesn't just throw his enemies into the sun in JL and JLU.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> This is an extremely huge problem.
> 
> Now that we have light speed ramming, a question will always be asked.
> 
> ...



I guess they could latter explain that they somehow had disabled Snoke's ship shields beforehand, that this resistance ship was special or that since that incident all ships are now created with a shield to prevent that from happening.

It sucks. Bit its peanuts compared to the truly horrible parts of the film.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> This is an extremely huge problem.
> 
> Now that we have light speed ramming, a question will always be asked.
> 
> ...



Because that's how they will win, not by destroying the things they hate, but protecting the things they love.

*kisses*

*ahem* that kind of hurt. As a more serious answer, would it really be that effective? I mean, the ship didn't even seem to do THAT much damage, considering the primary characters were left intact. It also seems to contradict the methods Leia strives for, considering she berated Poe for wasting so many lives to destroy a star destroyer.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 5, 2018)

If you'll pardon the tasteless comparison, maybe it's like 9/11: why had nobody thought to fly an airplane into a skyscraper before 2001?

The Japanese had invented the idea of_ kamikaze_ already in the 1940's, so why did it take 60 years for some lunatic to apply the same principle with a modern (=much larger) plane against a stationary civilian target rather than a moving aircraft carrier?

Or for a more recent example, why didn't terrorists think of driving trucks into crowds until like 2 years ago?

It seems that people just aren't as smart/creative as you would expect them to be. Even though these methods of attack seem obvious in hindsight. Maybe they're held back by self-preservation?


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## Fang (Jan 5, 2018)

The natural reason is because its a dumb cop-out plot device. Even from the movies you see them going to lightspeed, they enter some kind of dimension due to going faster than light and are physically temporarily disconnected from the material universe until they drop out. TLJ is dumb.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> The natural reason is because its a dumb cop-out plot device. Even from the movies you see them going to lightspeed, they enter some kind of dimension due to going faster than light and are physically temporarily disconnected from the material universe until they drop out. TLJ is dumb.


Yeah...

If lightspeed worked the way the chick used it.. wouldn't you eventually crash into an asteroid or planet or something.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Glued (Jan 5, 2018)

Whether its possible or not in real life is irrelevant. Its Overpowered.

They have opened a can of worms. Holdo took out an entire fleet, this shit is OP.

Whatever explanation they give, fans will always ask, why didn't they just ram them like Holdo.

They went full DBZ, never go full DBZ.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 5, 2018)

I would've shilled the scene like a payed movie critic if they had given this moment to Admiral (Allahu) Akbar or even better to Princess Leia...

Instead they give it to a filler character. While Akbar is practically killed off screen and Leia will get little more than a cgi goodbye in IX

RJ fucked this up so much that the repercussions haven't even been fully felt yet.


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> I would've shilled the scene like a payed movie critic if they had given this moment to Admiral (Allahu) Akbar or even better to Princess Leia...
> 
> Instead they give it to a filler character. While Akbar is practically killed off screen and Leia will get little more than a cgi goodbye in IX
> 
> RJ fucked this up so much that the repercussions haven't even been fully felt yet.



Yeah why even have Holdo.....

RJ wrote TLJ like it was one off solo movie not the middle of a trilogy he simply didnt give a darn about what came before or what has to come after in this trilogy...he definetly dint give a shit about the OT and other tie in material might as well not exist.

Another thing Holdo is a close friend of Leia? Poe has been a Republic and Resistance Captain and yet has never met Holdo before? Not even once, doesn't even know what she looks like? How the fuck does that make sense.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Atlas (Jan 5, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I think they killed the franchise.



Well, I'm certainly not optimistic about any future films. KK killed the films while EA killed the games. Thanks Disney.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 5, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> They never clarify, but I would assume based on her age, she was probably Leia's apprentice in her youth but wasn't around when Poe joined. He knew of Holdo, but it's also unclear how long Poe has been in the resistance. It is kind of awkwardly contrived though, as it seems like the resistance is all gathered on that single ship and yet he still wasn't aware of her.
> 
> As for why Holdo is even there, she was a red herring. We're supposed to be on Poe's side during their confrontations, as she has presented herself as an obstacle for our heroes. We're supposed to assume she's either a coward or a traitor, which would never have worked with Leia or Akbar. That was ultimately her function in the movie, although admittedly the entire subplot was kind of clumsy.
> 
> ...



Sure its unclear in the movies in the comics on the other hand Poe has known Leia most of his life which I suppose makes it weird that Kylo and Poe have apparently never met before...shows the lack of planning I suppose.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Sure its unclear in the movies in the comics on the other hand Poe has known Leia most of his life which I suppose makes it weird that Kylo and Poe have apparently never met before...shows the lack of planning I suppose.



Sort of like Leia kissing Luke, but then claiming she had always known he was her brother...

This is why these flaws can't get my angry. This franchise has always had an issue with continuity and that's another reason why I wonder if KK is really that creatively involved. Rian Johnson said that they might change the whole thing with Rey's parents for Episode 9 and suggested it was up to J.J Abrams, not Kathleen Kennedy, so the whole 'she came from nothing' was a Rian Johnson idea. Also, Mark Hamill said he was concerned about Johnson's vision for Luke, not Kennedy's.

So would her being fired really 'fix' "Star Wars"?


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 6, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Yeah...
> 
> If lightspeed worked the way the chick used it.. wouldn't you eventually crash into an asteroid or planet or something.


We always see ships _accelerating to lightspeed _first, all the way back to the original trilogy.  She hit the _Supremacy _during that acceleration, not when already in hyperspace.

Is it really that hard to get?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 6, 2018)

Tbf Holdos ramming ship was their single biggest flagship


Smaller ships = much less damage



Plus i suppose the danger of getting blasted before you do it



Plus what shadow said


Plus resources


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## Glued (Jan 6, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Tbf Holdos ramming ship was their single biggest flagship
> Smaller ships = much less damage



If that is the case lets hope the Mon Calamari don't find out about the "Holdo Maneuver.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 6, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> We always see ships _accelerating to lightspeed _first, all the way back to the original trilogy.  She hit the _Supremacy _during that acceleration, not when already in hyperspace.
> 
> Is it really that hard to get?


Yeah..It is 

So ships need a running start to jump into lightspeed? I'm pretty sure ships were shown to have gone lightspeed with an object in its path before.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jan 6, 2018)

We saw it in Rogue One, a rebel starship gets destroyed hitting Vader's Star Destroyer while accelerating to lightspeed. Or the Falcon exiting lightspeed at Starkiller's planetary shields.

Disney? Consistency? Not even once.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Skaddix (Jan 6, 2018)

Lol Star Wars defeated by Jumjani and Insidious what a fuckup.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Jan 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Lol Star Wars defeated by Jumjani and Insidious what a fuckup.



If Episode 9 takes place in 2019, they're going to take on Godzilla.

If it takes place in 2020 then they'll be taking on Godzilla and King Kong.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Lol Star Wars defeated by Jumjani and Insidious what a fuckup.



Thats worse than losing to Rogue One


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## Mider T (Jan 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Lol Star Wars defeated by Jumjani and Insidious what a fuckup.


Jumanji was a surprise hit (actually a pretty good movie) and Insidious is...well Insidious.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 6, 2018)

Well you cant spell Insidious without Sidious

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 6, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Well you cant spell Insidious without Sidious



He has his revenge.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 6, 2018)

Ugh, don't say such things...

Unlike you all, I have seen "Insidious: The Last Key" and if you think Finn's comedic routine sucks, he has nothing on Specks and Tucker- who were so unfunny that I began to question whether I was being too hard on "Grown Ups 2" (a personal contender for the worst movie of all time). If "Insidious: The Last Key" beats "Star Wars", they might make a 5th one...and I will have to f@cking see that too AND I SWEAR TO GOD OROCHIBUTO AND SKADDIX I WILL WRITE A THOUSAND LETTERS TO DISNEY IN YOUR NAMES TELLING THEM HOW GREAT KK IS AND HOW SEXIST THEY WILL BE IF THEY FIRE HER AND THEN I WILL COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE AND PEE ALL OVER YOUR PETS.

*Ahem*

So...how are you all doing today?


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## Glued (Jan 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Ugh, don't say such things...
> 
> Unlike you all, I have seen "Insidious: The Last Key" and if you think Finn's comedic routine sucks, he has nothing on Specks and Tucker- who were so unfunny that I began to question whether I was being too hard on "Grown Ups 2" (a personal contender for the worst movie of all time). If "Insidious: The Last Key" beats "Star Wars", they might make a 5th one...and I will have to f@cking see that too AND I SWEAR TO GOD OROCHIBUTO AND SKADDIX I WILL WRITE A THOUSAND LETTERS TO DISNEY IN YOUR NAMES TELLING THEM HOW GREAT KK IS AND HOW SEXIST THEY WILL BE IF THEY FIRE HER AND THEN I WILL COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE AND PEE ALL OVER YOUR PETS.
> 
> ...



So how bad was Insidious?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 6, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> So how bad was Insidious?



It would've been mediocre if it weren't for the comedic relief duo. Every time the movie starts to get a little creepy, they will bumble into the scene and deflate all of the tension, while giving the audience herpes with their misfired jokes.

I mean, I survived the Children of the Corn franchise, so "Insidious" wasn't THAT bad. But I think they should probably end it, as the formula has grown stale and the next entry will almost certainly be terrible...and it will be AIDS if Specks and Tucker are in it a lot.


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## Jake CENA (Jan 7, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Ugh, don't say such things...
> 
> Unlike you all, I have seen "Insidious: The Last Key" and if you think Finn's comedic routine sucks, he has nothing on Specks and Tucker- who were so unfunny that I began to question whether I was being too hard on "Grown Ups 2" (a personal contender for the worst movie of all time). If "Insidious: The Last Key" beats "Star Wars", they might make a 5th one...and I will have to f@cking see that too AND I SWEAR TO GOD OROCHIBUTO AND SKADDIX I WILL WRITE A THOUSAND LETTERS TO DISNEY IN YOUR NAMES TELLING THEM HOW GREAT KK IS AND HOW SEXIST THEY WILL BE IF THEY FIRE HER AND THEN I WILL COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE AND PEE ALL OVER YOUR PETS.
> 
> ...



Oh hai Martial, btw hows your sex life?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 7, 2018)

Gift that keeps on giving.... Hell of Job RJ and KK. Hell of a Job.

And no China wont be saving star wars for the foreseeable future. need to update those fight scenes cause the Chinese Audience has high standards for sword play.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 7, 2018)

part of the reason it even made so much to begin with was the utter disbelief people left the theaters with...

I couldn't fathom how truly bad it was on first viewing.

EDIT: Also...

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 7, 2018)

Ugh, it's true! Star Wars wasn't just defeated by Jumanji and Insidious, it was utterly pwned by them this week. OROCHIBUTO! SKADDIX! GIVE YOUR ADDRESSES, PHONE NUMBERS AND SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS BECAUSE I GOT SOME LETTERS TO WRITE IN YOUR NAMES. They will begin like this: "I am *insert Orochibuto's real name* and I am an SJW, just like my mentor Holdo, who has SJW hair." lol. 

Ugh, even as a TLJ apologist, I have to admit that it is a complete box office disappointment. If there is any solace I can take as a fan, it's that maybe Disney will see this as a warning that "Star Wars" is not invincible as a long running franchise and maybe this yearly release schedule is burning people out on the product. Of course, Disney will interpret its "failure" as "We didn't make it like "The Empire Strikes Back" enough, so for Episode IX, we need to resort to our secret weapon...EWOKS!" and they will probably create a Porg and Ewok hybrid. 

The funny thing is that I've seen both "Jumanji" and "Insidious" and I don't get why people still give a shit about "Insidious", nor do I understand why "Jumanji" has legs. I mean, it's OK, but in a one-and-done, entertaining-but-underwhelming kind of way. At least "The Last Jedi" got passionate reactions out of people, so is kind of fascinating to talk about. With that said, I still think "Star Wars" is depressingly limited in what can be done with it creatively.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Skaddix (Jan 7, 2018)

Well sure the core of Star Wars is the Force


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## Ennoea (Jan 7, 2018)

Insidious is a fairly decent horror franchise so why the surprise that it's doing well??


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## MartialHorror (Jan 7, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Insidious is a fairly decent horror franchise so why the surprise that it's doing well??



I guess I underestimated its relevance. The movies have gotten progressively worse, the January release date mixed in with the release delays are not good signs, the reviews were bad even by its franchise's standards and "The Conjuring" franchise was pretty much doing the same thing, but better. 

I didn't expect "Insidious" to flop, mind you, I just didn't expect it to beat Star Wars this week.


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## Glued (Jan 7, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I didn't expect "Insidious" to flop, mind you, I just didn't expect it to beat Star Wars this week.


Rose stood there looking down on the city and did nothing, but social commentary.

Never before have I been drawn out of a story by immersion breaking since Ahsoka Tano from the clone wars talked to the Mandalorians about corruption.

And it wasn't just minor discourse like Palpatine talking to Padme.

Rose straight up began preaching. All she was missing was a soap box to stand on.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 7, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Rose stood there looking down on the city and did nothing, but social commentary.



Right, because the Prequel trilogies had _nothing _to do with politics, nor made any commentaries on aspects of social life. 

How about considering for a moment that it was important to establish _because that was how the First Order managed to build up its forces.  _All these weapons and starship manufacturers who do not care about sides in the coming war, so long as they are able to make a profit and fill their pockets, even if it mean violating the Galactic Concordance.

The known builders for the First Order's army and fleet, for example, are Kuat-Entralla and Sienar-Jaemus, branches of the same companies that built starships and land vehicles for the Empire.


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## Glued (Jan 7, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Right, because the Prequel trilogies had _nothing _to do with politics, nor made any commentaries on aspects of social life.



Yes, mentioned in my post about how Palpatine talked to Padme about the senate.

Do you think I should talk some more? Alright how about Padme talks to Anakin about dictatorships or how Padme talks about democracy dying. Minor glimpses but nothing major.

I mentioned somewhere a long time ago how I hated the fact an abstract power like the force and Obi Wan talking about standing up for democracy.

However in that recent post which you quoted I also cringed at Ahsoka Tano giving a speech about corruption.

Rose was beyond prequel levels bad. Rose was Ahsoka Tano levels bad.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 7, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> With that said, I still think "Star Wars" is depressingly limited in what can be done with it creatively.



Its an entire galaxy

With a mythos that used to extend 25,000 years into the past, and upwards of 1 million if you stretch it to include shit like the Ones

It isn't that the property is limited, its that they went the lazy route and wrote a story in an era we're familiar with hoping the recognition would take them all the way to the bank (I'd have thought the brand name enough, but Disney likes extra cushion to protect them from impact apparently)

Retroactively making the OT feel like a pointless waste of everyone's time is just a byproduct of this bankrupt creative mentality *shrugs*

By revisiting a narrative that was already resolved, you tie your hands and effectively neuter the number of directions you can expand that story without straining suspension of disbelief (and mine's dead, those hope/spark of rebellion speeches are effectively meaningless across 3 different generations in universe)

They could have explored any of the Legends content from any other era and taken that in any direction they wanted, but they took the safe route because they're a business first and creative far, far, into the distance.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 7, 2018)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Its an entire galaxy
> 
> With a mythos that used to extend 25,000 years into the past, and upwards of 1 million if you stretch it to include shit like the Ones
> 
> ...



They also took the safe route because that's ultimately what fans want. If the force is used in a way that's not force chocking, lifting rocks or mind manipulation, fans will freak out because "Why didn't they do that before?". If there aren't light sabers, the force, ATAT's, Star Destroyers or X-Wings, it's as if the story ceases to be Star Wars. And every time I hear "they raped Luke's character" in regards to TLJ, I interpret it as "they took Luke in a different direction than what I wanted, so it sucks". I would argue that Luke was kind of a blank slate in the original trilogy, so there wasn't that much of a character to rape, but to each his own.

But you know JJ Abrams and Disney are going to play it as safely as possible for Episode IX. Even if TLJ is just a bad movie, no studio ever admits as such, ESPECIALLY Disney. They are going to blame its failure on not adhering to the formula enough. Or they'll blame the brand. Or the genre. The only question is will JJ Abrams emulate "Return of the Jedi"? That might be strange as it's considered the weakest of the trilogy.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rose stood there looking down on the city and did nothing, but social commentary.
> 
> Never before have I been drawn out of a story by immersion breaking since Ahsoka Tano from the clone wars talked to the Mandalorians about corruption.
> 
> ...



If "Avatar" can become the highest grossing movie of all time with its preaching, I doubt Rose's preaching had an effect on the box office...and even though I know you hate the movie, a lot of people do like "The Last Jedi". The best I've heard about "Insidious" is that it's OK for what it is.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 7, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> They also took the safe route because that's ultimately what fans want.



Because they thought it would make them money

They're a business, they care about what we want as far as it strikes a profit



> If the force is used in a way that's not force chocking, lifting rocks or mind manipulation, fans will freak out because "Why didn't they do that before?".



Don't look at me for this one

I'm a vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), I enjoy power variety (not that this sort of Force Illusion was new to me [dying from it like a bitch was admittedly new], nor is the Force Bond shit or even Yoda calling Lightning from the sky as a ghost)

Conversely, as a vs ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), I also think most Star Wars writing on a fight level is junk food tier and lazy

Its too difficult for them to write a plot that both uses the super powers in a manner that is internally consistent with their big budget showings and makes it believable any non-force user has any business being part of a conflict

So its a nice mixed bag that's a franchise wide issue



> If there aren't light sabers, the force, ATAT's, Star Destroyers or X-Wings, it's as if the story ceases to be Star Wars.



Do you want a story without the Force? 

I have to agree with the sentiment its not Star Wars if you strip the story of its generic magic system. Star Wars is undoubtedly Sci Fi, but its equally just Space Fantasy at the same time.

Not sure why fuckers like ATAT though, they're a retarded concept



> And every time I hear "they raped Luke's character" in regards to TLJ, I interpret it as "they took Luke in a different direction than what I wanted, so it sucks".



And that's not an invalid interpretation

Nor is the complaint invalid as a stance

He's a piece of shit and I'd genuinely take cardboard over another generic self-pitying veteran that has to overcome his trauma, often by relearning fucking lessons he learned earlier in his heroes journey

At least cardboard is inoffensive in how boring it is, "humanizing" the previous hero does nothing for me as I find nothing redeemable about being human in the first place *shrugs*



> I would argue that Luke was kind of a blank slate in the original trilogy, so there wasn't that much of a character to rape, but to each his own.



Vanilla doesn't equal a blank slate

He's the quintessential whiny bitchy starry eyed new comer with promise that transforms into the self assured beacon of hope you see in every other incarnation of the hero's journey



> But you know JJ Abrams and Disney are going to play it as safely as possible for Episode IX. Even if TLJ is just a bad movie, no studio ever admits as such, ESPECIALLY Disney.



No shit on all counts *shrugs*

Which just makes me laugh

I wanted to like the sequels, it has shit I enjoy, but the initial framing device damned it from the start

Now they're trying to set up a message that "the past fucked up, but we can change it for the better now and correct their mistakes" without offering us actual substance that would lead us to believe the ending won't just be more cyclical bullshit



> They are going to blame its failure on not adhering to the formula enough. Or they'll blame the brand. Or the genre. The only question is will JJ Abrams emulate "Return of the Jedi"? That might be strange as it's considered the weakest of the trilogy.



Who even knows

They already had their Return of the Jedi and subsequent "we're so witty" subversion with Snoke eating it and Ren going off the deep end even further

Wait, no, the only subversion was Ren going off the deep end, Sidious died in RotJ too, just the order is altered


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 7, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Yes, mentioned in my post about how Palpatine talked to Padme about the senate.
> 
> Do you think I should talk some more? Alright how about Padme talks to Anakin about dictatorships or how Padme talks about democracy dying. Minor glimpses but nothing major.



Just those points?  One of the key threads that drove the Prequel trilogy _was _politics; the entire trilogy was about the rise of a dictatorship and the death of democracy. 

But one character telling another, who was unaware of the reason behind the wealth of Canto Bight, about how those people got their wealth, is somehow "too much"?  I consider it a part of Finn's character arc, helping him to conclusively choose a side.



MartialHorror said:


> They also took the safe route because that's ultimately what fans want. If the force is used in a way that's not force chocking, lifting rocks or mind manipulation, fans will freak out because "Why didn't they do that before?". If there aren't light sabers, the force, ATAT's, Star Destroyers or X-Wings, it's as if the story ceases to be Star Wars.



Force-Storms and Transfer Essence were both Force powers demonstrated by the Clone Palpatines.  Flow-Walking was a power that allowed one to perceive both past and future.  Battle Meditation was a power that can bolster one's allies in battle and weaken the morale of their enemies. 

Three of the above count as Spatial Manipulation, Soul Transference (which in retrospect is eerily close to how Plagueis was described as being able to manipulate life), and Time Manipulation (Flow-Walking, Time-Drifting).  

There was also the Nightsisters, whose method of using the Force amounted to drawing on the Dark Side to perform *magic.*

There isn't much in the way of "out-there" things the Force had been used for in the old canon, barring full-on reality manipulation (even then, there may have been the Ones and Abeloth).



ChaosTheory123 said:


> It isn't that the property is limited, its that they went the lazy route and wrote a story in an era we're familiar with hoping the recognition would take them all the way to the bank (I'd have thought the brand name enough, but Disney likes extra cushion to protect them from impact apparently)
> 
> Retroactively making the OT feel like a pointless waste of everyone's time is just a byproduct of this bankrupt creative mentality *shrugs*
> 
> By revisiting a narrative that was already resolved, you tie your hands and effectively neuter the number of directions you can expand that story without straining suspension of disbelief (and mine's dead, those hope/spark of rebellion speeches are effectively meaningless across 3 different generations in universe)



I would not say it makes the Original Trilogy feel pointless; I'd rather say this goes back to "Ring Theory", and is emergent story-telling.

My usual "tl;dr" post is in spoilers below, so pre-emptive apologies for the length:


*Spoiler*: __ 




The Prequel Trilogy was built around Palpatine engineering civil strife within the galaxy by playing both sides.  In "Attack of the Clones", while Sidious was leading the Separatists to build up an army to allow them to split from and attack the Republic, he also engineered for the creation of the Grand Army of the Republic to allow for the Clone Wars.  By the end of "Revenge of the Sith", Palpatine got everything he wanted and fulfilled the dream of the Sith - to destroy the Jedi and restore the Sith to power in the Galaxy, at which point he just orders the Separatists armies to shut down.

The Original Trilogy we all know - individuals desiring a free galaxy, and those loyal to the ideals of the old Republic, band together to form the Rebel Alliance against the Galactic Empire.  By the end of the Original Trilogy, Palpatine is killed, the second Death Star destroyed, the Rebel Alliance becomes the New Republic, and the remnants of the Galactic Empire are defeated at Jakku. 

However, those loyal to the ideals of the Empire did not vanish suddenly after Jakku, and the same is true for a significant portion of the Imperial fleet.  Those remnants retreated into the Unknown Regions, became the First Order and began a new build-up of military power to prepare for the day they wage war to restore the Galactic Empire.  Not only that, but there were also the Centrists, as shown in _Bloodline, _who were made up of Imperial loyalists who had planned to break away from the New Republic to join the First Order, which leads up to the events of the Sequel Trilogy.

I believe there is a trend here: Across all three trilogies, there is one side trying to restore what was once lost.

Prequel Trilogy - Palpatine fulfilling the Sith's one-thousand-year ambition of claiming revenge against the Jedi, and restoring the Sith to power.

Original Trilogy - the Rebel Alliance defeating the Galactic Empire, Luke and Vader destroying the Sith, restoring the Republic and allowing for the Jedi to return.

Sequel Trilogy - The First Order seeking to destroy the New Republic and restore the Galactic Empire, and Snoke sought to purge the Jedi from the Galaxy.

It's chiastic story-telling - the structure of an idea with different variants.  This kind of ring structure can be seen between the Prequel and Original Trilogy, and it is also seen in the Sequel Trilogy in relation to the other two.  This is also the emergent story-telling I mentioned earlier.  Whether it was intended or not, this theme of "fighting to restore the past" is common across all three trilogies.

The First Order as an organization is not just a rip-off of the Galactic Empire.  A secret mass build-up of military resources, paired with the desire to return the former ruling government of the galaxy to power, draws from _both _the Rebel Alliance and the Separatists.  They want to restore the Galactic Empire, like the Alliance to Restore the Republic and were able to secretly build up a massive army, like the Separatists.  And while some may call Starkiller Base just "a rip-off of the Death Star", the Death Star symbolically represented the apex of Imperial power.  Why wouldn't the First Order want a similar weapon, _only better?  _Starkiller Base exists _because _the First Order was drawing inspiration from the Galactic Empire of old.

Furthermore, unlike when Palpatine was puppeteering both sides in the Prequel, the Sequel Trilogy has the greater galaxy unaware of just how much power the First Order has built up, and is caught completely off-guard by the first assault.  In other words, it is what would have happened if the Confederacy of Independent Systems had declared war on the Galactic Republic, and the Republic had no Clone Army prepared in advance. 

Additionally, the First Order even draws from _the worse traits _of the old Jedi Order and the Clone Army in the Prequels.  Brendol Hux, Armitage Hux's father, was inspired by both the Jedi and the Clones during his time in the Clone Wars and was the one who had the idea of raising child soldiers from birth to serve in the military.  Even his contemporaries in _the Empire _rejected his ideas, though the Sequel trilogy makes it evident the First Order embraced these ideas (ironically, Brendol was killed by Phasma on Armitage's orders). 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, there is one key variable that defines the Sequel Trilogy, one that emerged with "The Last Jedi", and one I find rather interesting: Kylo Ren himself, and his relationship with the First Order and Snoke.  Unlike the rest of the First Order, Kylo Ren was not part of it from birth.  He is an outsider, and that shows in his relationship with Armitage Hux, who was raised from childhood to hold the ideals of the First Order.  Even as an outsider, he showed elements of the same running theme I mentioned above: a desire to emulate, restore or become another of what was lost.  For Kylo Ren, in "the Force Awakens", that was his apparent devotion to the memory of Darth Vader, a desire to emulate him, and "finish what Vader started" by destroying the last of the Jedi.

"The Last Jedi" changed all of that, however.  Starting from when Snoke tore Kylo Ren down after his defeat at Rey's hands, Kylo Ren started to develop along a new path, one even more dangerous than his previous self: casting aside the past to build something new, as he affirmed after he killed Snoke.  I find this to be rather ironic: Kylo Ren wants to let the past die, but now he is the leader of the First Order, a faction obsessed with restoring the Galactic Empire to its former glory and more, "restoring something from the past."

On the other hand, as emphasized by Yoda in his scene with Luke, it is not about "letting the past die", or simply "rebuilding something lost"; it is about passing on one's mistakes, so the next time will be better. 

The First Order just wants to rebuild the Galactic Empire as it was; Kylo Ren wants to cast aside the past and build something new entirely; the Resistance will be the ones to learn from the mistakes of the past and rebuild the Republic into something better.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 7, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> the Resistance will be the ones to learn from the mistakes of the past and rebuild the Republic into something better.



Sorry to cut up your long post on the topic, but this is really the crux of why I call it a waste

Reality now informs how conflict can be resolved in the setting, and we have no precedent or rebuttal to the past that will lead us to believe the same mistakes won't be made and the cycle will just continue

Any notion of "it will be different this time" needs to confront and construct a sufficient argument for why we should believe it will be

Telling us is the normal out and lazy, but it also doesn't actually leave us believing anything changed for the better and that the same cycle of bullshit won't just keep going

Showing us is entirely out of the question, because we don't have a believable answer to such conflict resolution to draw from in the first place. We inch forward slowly while maintaining the status quo and little else


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 7, 2018)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Sorry to cut up your long post on the topic, but this is really the crux of why I call it a waste
> 
> Reality now informs how conflict can be resolved in the setting, and we have no precedent or rebuttal to the past that will lead us to believe the same mistakes won't be made and the cycle will just continue
> 
> ...



There are still two years before Episode IX, which will determine what happens with that.  

...If we even see the restoration of the Republic in Episode IX, considering "Return of the Jedi" ended with the celebration on Endor, leaving it to both Legends and the Disney canon to tell the story of the establishment of the New Republic in novel form.

Unless Abrams decides to pull an "epilogue" scene that jumps several years later (which has its own problems), Episode IX will be strongly pressed to include the dissolution of the First Order and the re-establishment of the Republic in one film. 

Either we get a "Return of the King" ending (multiple different ending scenes w/time-skips to tie everything up); a "Return of the Jedi" ending (ends after the final battle of Episode IX, leaves the details of restoring the Republic to novels).

Or Abrams could commit career suicide and go for a "Lost" ending.  

We can only get a hint of what will happen once we start getting information on the film.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 8, 2018)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> Because they thought it would make them money
> 
> They're a business, they care about what we want as far as it strikes a profit
> 
> ...



I wasn't referring to you for this. And yeah, I agree it all comes down to profits. 



> Do you want a story without the Force?
> 
> I have to agree with the sentiment its not Star Wars if you strip the story of its generic magic system. Star Wars is undoubtedly Sci Fi, but its equally just Space Fantasy at the same time.
> 
> Not sure why fuckers like ATAT though, they're a retarded concept



Not really and even though I talk about all of this stuff like I'm better than that, I'd probably not be as interested if it lacked those distinct elements that make it Star Wars.





> And that's not an invalid interpretation
> 
> Nor is the complaint invalid as a stance
> 
> ...



Fair enough. 





> No shit on all counts *shrugs*
> 
> Which just makes me laugh
> 
> ...



The funny thing is we have to thank Lucas for the cyclical nature of this narrative, as the "it's like poetry, it rhymes" line of his seems to have inspired the new trilogy. I enjoy the new trilogy, but I still think the original trilogy just captured something special that will never be replicated within the Star Wars universe. I've said in the past that if Lucas continued with his plans to make Star Wars movies immediately after "Return of the Jedi", there might not be fan disputes over whats canon or what's acceptable in the Star Wars universe...probably because the fanbase would've been so young they wouldn't care.


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## Glued (Jan 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If "Avatar" can become the highest grossing movie of all time with its preaching, I doubt Rose's preaching had an effect on the box office...and even though I know you hate the movie, a lot of people do like "The Last Jedi". The best I've heard about "Insidious" is that it's OK for what it is.


Avatar made me want to fall asleep, I have no idea how it became popular. It was just Dances with Wolves, but in space.



Catalyst75 said:


> Just those points?  One of the key threads that drove the Prequel trilogy _was _politics; the entire trilogy was about the rise of a dictatorship and the death of democracy.



It made more sense when you consider the fact Palpatine was a senator from Naboo and Padme was royalty. The fact they talk about politics makes sense. The politics was interwoven with the plot

And although Obi Wan made me cringe with his speech at least we got a badass fight over a volcano to make us forget. That part had more to do with Anakin's complete breakdown (Hayden Christensen's Bad acting).



> But one character telling another, who was unaware of the reason behind the wealth of Canto Bight, about how those people got their wealth, is somehow "too much"?  I consider it a part of Finn's character arc, helping him to conclusively choose a side.



Context is everything. Finn and Rose were on an unnecessary side mission and it got inflated further with unnecessary preaching. The entire Finn and Rose storyline stuck out like a sore thumb. Finn unfortunately doesn't really do much other than chase Rey or Poe. He needs to be given his own goal.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 8, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Avatar made me want to fall asleep, I have no idea how it became popular. It was just Dances with Wolves, but in space.



Watched it once, didn't get all the hype behind it either.  It was a storyline seen multiple times before but IN SPACE (and with space-elf-cats).  Yet Cameron thinks he can still make a franchise with _four more films._  Given how much time has passed, I think _Avatar 2 _would be lucky to make _*half *_of what the first one did.  They waited two decades to make an _Independence Day _sequel, and interest so died down that _Resurgence _didn't even make half the original.



Ben Grimm said:


> Context is everything. Finn and Rose were on an unnecessary side mission and it got inflated further with unnecessary preaching. The entire Finn and Rose storyline stuck out like a sore thumb. Finn unfortunately doesn't really do much other than chase Rey or Poe. He needs to be given his own goal.



Except he did find his own goal_._  In terms of Finn's character, that was the point of the side mission, the point behind Rose's words about how the rich on Canto Bight, and Finn's interactions with DJ - seeing the side of the galaxy that refuses to join either side and just profits off both side of the war or are just in it for themselves.  Those interactions led up to Finn choosing to fully join the Resistance against the First Order.

NOTE: Also helps that it introduced us to Temiri (the broom boy) and his friends, whose final scene in the movie shows how both the Resistance and Luke's last act inspired hope in the galaxy.  After all, they had to first hear that tale from someone.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 8, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Avatar made me want to fall asleep, I have no idea how it became popular. It was just Dances with Wolves, but in space.
> .



It was all about the hype. James Cameron's name draws attention alone, but the new technologies, the reports that this had the biggest budget of all time (deliberately) and the hype just let it catch fire. No one really gives a shit about it anymore, but I hear for the sequels, they've developed underwater motion capture and are trying to create 3-D without the use of the glasses, so maybe it will recapture the shark. Who knows. But the fact is...it's the highest grossing movie of all time and was super preachy, so I doubt Rose's preaching had an impact on the BO.

Honestly, the BO disappointment is probably many, many things, ranging from the backlash against the movie to a burnout on Star Wars to a burnout on Disney and franchises in general. Also, "Jumangi" somehow grew legs and is certainly eating away at the ticket sales. Above everything, I think Disney just got arrogant with their expectations.


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## The World (Jan 8, 2018)

It was Dances with Wolves on an alien jungle planet

they were barely in space


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## Mider T (Jan 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Jumangi


Jumanji* is a good movie.


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## Fang (Jan 8, 2018)

lmao

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 8, 2018)

"The Star Wars lore and characters held little interest for moviegoers who weren't familiar with the previous six films, and Force Awakens and Rogue One only served to confuse them. Disney tried to make up for this in The Last Jedi by popping in little cards on the side of the screen every time a major character appeared, with the character’s bio in both Chinese and English. It didn’t help much to allay the confusion caused by the convoluted plot."

Ayyyyyyy

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Atlas (Jan 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> "The Star Wars lore and characters held little interest for moviegoers who weren't familiar with the previous six films, and Force Awakens and Rogue One only served to confuse them. Disney tried to make up for this in The Last Jedi by popping in little cards on the side of the screen every time a major character appeared, with the character’s bio in both Chinese and English. It didn’t help much to allay the confusion caused by the convoluted plot."
> 
> Ayyyyyyy



Why do _I _feel embarrassed reading that?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jan 8, 2018)

Because it is embarrassing, imagine how Disney execs feel upon learning that.


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## Fang (Jan 8, 2018)

>Japanese review is absolutely scathing on TLJ
Machine translated:

"Last Jedi" started burying the thought by Luke Skywalker himself in just a few minutes to start. As soon as revealed, Luke was exhausted and closed his mind. But was there really a need to let Luke throw away the light saber? The depiction of this kind should have been the work of a robot chicken that is a parody. If you show that you want to refuse, you should have just returned it to Ray or just drop it. The abandoned Saber was coincidentally found on the ground, but there is a possibility that it could not be recovered by falling into the sea as it was. The slippery comedy sense only invites disillusionment."

"And the new Star Wars Force will abandon its dignity and abandon its dignity. Searching for how to destroy the shield with 'Force of Force' When Fins mouths with 'Let's use the force', Han solo warned that "Force is not like that." However, suddenly in the "last Jedi", depictions that doubt that "Force is not such a thing" will appear dramatically and often. Leia thrown into outer space flies like Krypton star and survives and Rei and Cairo Len make Skype calls through the Force. Luke's alter ego suggests that the future Star Wars "is already there". Like the strange Pogue which nests without permission inside the Millennium Falcon that should be the place of remembrance, "the last Jedi" enters the sanctuary with shoes."

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Atlas (Jan 8, 2018)

Robot Chicken.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 8, 2018)

Gotta agree. That really is the type of thing you'd see spoofed on Robot Chicken.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Jumanji* is a good movie.



lol, I always get the spelling of that wrong.


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## Yasha (Jan 8, 2018)

What did I just read? Dances with Wolves is one of the greatest movies of all time. Avatar is just a mediocre film with some fancy high-budget CGI.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 9, 2018)

Fang said:


> Because it is embarrassing, imagine how Disney execs feel upon learning that.


i normally don't like to sound like a spiteful fuck; but I hope Bog Iger himself leaves a boot print on Hackleen Kennedy's ass as he kicks her out of the window of his office.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 9, 2018)

Fang said:


> "The Star Wars lore and characters held little interest for moviegoers who weren't familiar with the previous six films, and Force Awakens and Rogue One only served to confuse them. Disney tried to make up for this in The Last Jedi by popping in little cards on the side of the screen every time a major character appeared, with the character’s bio in both Chinese and English. It didn’t help much to allay the confusion caused by the convoluted plot."
> 
> Ayyyyyyy


That is quite common in wuxia Cdramas belive it or not.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 9, 2018)

Fang said:


> Because it is embarrassing, imagine how Disney execs feel upon learning that.



Though it was unrealistic to hope for a repeat of TFA box office-wise, the suits cant be very satisfied with the Asian negative response and the divided one at home

AoU was seen as a failure back in the day too despite coming close to matching A1, but the praise was mixed

And that led to directorial changes


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## MartialHorror (Jan 9, 2018)

Yeah, but it was also common knowledge that Joss Whedon was having problems with the higher-ups during the production of "Age of Ultron". They didn't want that entire scene with Hawkeye's family and he didn't want the weird Thor vision. So when "Age of Ultron" didn't do quite as well as they hoped, it was easy to part ways with him. While it's certainly possible they will blame Johnson for "TLJ", this has been the only Star Wars flick in the new wave without a troubled production of any kind, so maybe they won't sever ties with him yet. 

This whole China release gimmick was embarrassing though and can't even be blamed on Johnson or TLJ. If they really wanted to catch China up, they probably should've just released all of the movies prior in the theaters (sort of like Lucas did with the prequels)...Then again, I've heard that China isn't as fond as older movies as we are in the west, so maybe it wouldn't have worked. But even if "TLJ" was a masterpiece, I doubt it would've made much of a splash in China anyway. The bubbles explaining everything just sounds like an annoying distraction.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jan 9, 2018)

China saved the Warcraft movie, if they wanted to entertain the Chinese audience they should have added more fantasy elements. Giant beasts, aliens, great fight scenes and etc.



Catalyst75 said:


> Except he did find his own goal_._  In terms of Finn's character, that was the point of the side mission, the point behind Rose's words about how the rich on Canto Bight, and Finn's interactions with DJ - seeing the side of the galaxy that refuses to join either side and just profits off both side of the war or are just in it for themselves.  Those interactions led up to Finn choosing to fully join the Resistance against the First Order.



Finn could have done that without the subplot, such as when he chose to save Rey from Kylo Ren. The one choice he makes in the film, and Rose basically stole his moment.

You could honestly cut out the entire Rose and Finn sidequest and it wouldn't affect the plot, except for Phasma dying.



MartialHorror said:


> Honestly, the BO disappointment is probably many, many things, ranging from the backlash against the movie to a burnout on Star Wars to a burnout on Disney and franchises in general. Also, "Jumangi" somehow grew legs and is certainly eating away at the ticket sales. Above everything, I think Disney just got arrogant with their expectations.



With Star Wars there was a lot of things.

-The Porgs are useless, Ewoks saved the day
-Rey simply doesn't have the same chemistry with Chewbacca that Han had
-Snoke was an arrogant fool that hired Hux.
-Hux was an incompetent buffoon
-Kylo Ren is an emotional wreck
-The guards were fodder
-Holdo and Poe conflict was unnecessary
-Not enough aliens or droids or giant beasts
-Holdo went full DBZ, Never go Full DBZ
-The relation between Finn, Poe and Rey lack chemistry

Holdo lightspeed is full dbz and now there is no logical reason why it won't be abused. Yeah it looks cool, but it honestly broke the universe.



Fang said:


> Like the strange Pogue which nests without permission inside the Millennium Falcon that should be the place of remembrance, "the last Jedi"* enters the sanctuary with shoes.*"



Wow, just wow. They really did it. Oh lord. As someone of South Asian descent I understand the gravitas of these words. They really effed things up beyond forgiveness.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 9, 2018)

But those are all little things that might've affected the quality of the film to you, but probably did not have an impact on the box office, as it's not like general audiences were going out of their way to read spoilers. Also, even if the light speed thing broke the universe, most people seem to think it was awesome.

I mean, if individual flaws mattered in the Box Office, the "Transformers" movies would never have gotten as far as they did. BO performance is usually about presentation, marketing and general reception. Most people...and I really hate to sound condescending and arrogant over this...have simple tastes.  Actually, no, I have no problem saying this because my tastes are pretty simple too.When someone uses light speed to cause damage, they are not going to think about the logic of it, they're going to react to the spectacle. Once again, this is why "Transformers" grew so big, even though those movies made no sense. It's also why "Fast and Furious" is probably the biggest franchise right now, as those movies are all about turning off the brain and getting high off the exhilaration. They also make for some mighty trailers.

"The Last Jedi" was struggling a little bit in the hype department anyway, as most seemed to be underwhelmed by the marketing campaign. The trailers got a 'meh' reaction and I think "Rogue One" served as a distraction to the new wave of Star Wars flicks than anything else (I know people who don't follow the franchise that closely that thought Jynn was Rey). The critics adored "TLJ", but audiences were split and there are many reasons for it. Those who don't follow the Star Wars lore aren't going to give a shit about Luke, Yoda, Leia and might even be confused by their inclusions. Those who follow the Star Wars lore might dislike what they did with the returning characters from the old trilogy. Then yes, there are those who simply think it's a bad film, but I actually think this had the least impact on the box office. Why? Because while detractors are playing up the backlash, it is still a divisive movie, not a hated one. For every hater, there is an equally passionate fan.

But whether someone watches TLJ or not, no one is going to skip the movie because Hux was a buffoon. That's not how the Box Office works.


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## Glued (Jan 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> But whether someone watches TLJ or not, no one is going to skip the movie because Hux was a buffoon. That's not how the Box Office works.



Vader carried the ESB with his gravitas by himself. And although he was only in a few scenes, Tarkin commanded respect. Even Vader respected him.

Hux alone isn't the problem, Kylo and Snoke are as well. 

A hero is only as great as his villain. 

Heath Ledger made the Dark Knight a smash hit, not Christian Bale.

It is late in the game and we need antagonists that can honestly measure up. 

They could try to put in awesome CGI and go for the Transformers route, but if The Last Knight is any indication, it will take more than CGI to get the audience now. Times change.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Vader carried the ESB with his gravitas by himself. And although he was only in a few scenes, Tarkin commanded respect. Even Vader respected him.
> 
> Hux alone isn't the problem, Kylo and Snoke are as well.
> 
> ...



The flaw in your logic is that "The Empire Strikes Back" was also a financial disappointment, no matter how good Vader was. Also, Peter Cushing was an established star, so if Tarkin played a role at the box office, it was because of that. The guy who played Hux has done stuff of note, but few people know who he is. No one saw or skipped the movie because of him. Heath Ledger is a very unfair example, as his death played a huge role in the hype for that movie. Also, both Vader and Ledger's Joker are considered to be among the best villains of all time. You can't expect that lightning to be captured in a bottle when it's convenient. That's why they went the opposite route with Kylo Ren, regardless of whether it played out well or not, because they know they'll never create a villain as compelling as Vader. Lucas couldn't either.

I agree that CGI is no longer enough though.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Holdo lightspeed is full dbz and now there is no logical reason why it won't be abused. Yeah it looks cool, but it honestly broke the universe.



Funny, because I hear the guys in the Battledome criticize Spacebattles for making claims that certain things "break the setting".  I suppose it has come full-circle if this becomes a double-standard, now that someone has started claiming that light-speed ramming "breaks the Universe", ignoring the fact that Anakin programmed the _Malevolence _to hyperspace jump into a dead moon, Hera Syndulla made this kind of jump through a construction sphere's hangar:


Both scenes showed two things: you don't want anything to be in front of you if you initiate a jump, and you don't want to be in the path of something as it is jumping.  So tell me: how a suicidal maneuver such as light-speed ramming "break the Universe"?



Ben Grimm said:


> -Snoke was an arrogant fool that hired Hux.



Snoke did not "hire" him; Hux was raised _from childhood_ to be a leader in the First Order from its first days (he even had Phasma assassinate his own father to get where he is).  Hux is the embodiment of a fanatic raised from birth to serve a specific cause.



Ben Grimm said:


> -The Porgs are useless, Ewoks saved the day



A complaint this superficial.  When the Ewoks were a case of Stone Age arrows and blunt-force tactics overpowering Space Age tech.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The flaw in your logic is that "The Empire Strikes Back" was also a financial disappointment


there is really only one major difference between _The Empire Strikes Back_ and _The Last Jedi_...

One is a great movie born from tight script;  the other is a piece of shit with a  script so sloppy that would make even a freshman film student blush.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 9, 2018)

The only reason TESB grossed less than ANH was because Fox had it in the theaters for five years.


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## Glued (Jan 9, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Both scenes showed two things: you don't want anything to be in front of you if you initiate a jump, and you don't want to be in the path of something as it is jumping.  So tell me: how a suicidal maneuver such as light-speed ramming "break the Universe"?



When I say it breaks the Universe, I'm not talking about diagetic reasoning nor am I talking about physics.

What I mean is that this shit should now be abused. Did you see how many Star Cruisers Holdo took out. Give me one good reason why it shouldn't be abused?

This is bad, like omg too OP plz nerf bad. Because logically something like this would and should be abused. They went full DBZ, never go full DBZ.



> Snoke did not "hire" him; Hux was raised _from childhood_ to be a leader in the First Order from its first days (he even had Phasma assassinate his own father to get where he is).  Hux is the embodiment of a fanatic raised from birth to serve a specific cause.



You're missing the point, Snoke appointed Hux as the leader of his fleet. He promoted a buffoon as his top admiral. This by proxy makes Snoke look as incompetent as Hux. You are telling me there wasn't single officer in the entire First Order more qualified than Hux?



MartialHorror said:


> The flaw in your logic is that "The Empire Strikes Back" was also a financial disappointment, no matter how good Vader was. Also, Peter Cushing was an established star, so if Tarkin played a role at the box office, it was because of that. The guy who played Hux has done stuff of note, but few people know who he is. No one saw or skipped the movie because of him. Heath Ledger is a very unfair example, as his death played a huge role in the hype for that movie. Also, both Vader and Ledger's Joker are considered to be among the best villains of all time. You can't expect that lightning to be captured in a bottle when it's convenient. That's why they went the opposite route with Kylo Ren, regardless of whether it played out well or not, because they know they'll never create a villain as compelling as Vader. Lucas couldn't either



Perhaps the Empire wasn't as successful, but it was a masterpiece that has lasted through the ages, I don't think TLJ will have the same lasting effect.



> I agree that CGI is no longer enough though.



Well, that is something the two of us can both agree upon I suppose.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 9, 2018)

I wonder what's next for special effects. We've been spoiled on CGI, but will there be an even better technology in the future? I wonder how it would look any better.


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## Ennoea (Jan 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I wonder what's next for special effects. We've been spoiled on CGI, but will there be an even better technology in the future? I wonder how it would look any better.



3d I Imagine will improve till the point we should be exported in to the film


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## Fang (Jan 9, 2018)

Rotfl

Its down to 49% now, the people have spoken


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jan 9, 2018)

Fang said:


> Rotfl
> 
> Its down to 49% now, the people have spoken



> tfw Man of Murder and Rush to The Justice League is more loved among the public

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Glued (Jan 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I wonder what's next for special effects. We've been spoiled on CGI, but will there be an even better technology in the future? I wonder how it would look any better.



Well it really depends, for example Planet of the Apes did very well. Its CGI is absolutely perfect.

Then you have the Raptors in the new Jurassic Park who have big eyes like anime characters.

Men In Black tried to balance it out with having the worms as puppets. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was amazing wire work.

As much as I hate SS, I absolute loved how Margot Robbie did everything by herself. As long as CGI remains pricey and expensive, there will always be room for practical effects.

And even if it does, you can never replace Charles Dance with CGI, you can't capture James Earl Junior's voice. And even if you could, why would you? The original actor for Obi-Wan Kenobi was amazing. The way he talks to Luke about his father and Vader was so realistic and going back and watching those ANH, the work is extraordinary. The subtle pauses and the eyes looking away. Why would anyone use CGI when you can have an actor of such high caliber.


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## Ennoea (Jan 9, 2018)

Martial horror you'e ignoring one key element. The damage to the property by this film. And by that I mean the treatment of the original characters is appalling and will have an effect on future box office.  Look at where the Transformer franchise ended up? In the gutter. 

Will this kill the franchise?? Probably not. But hopefully it'll kill the yearly release schedule because they can't churn out one film a year and expect it to be quality.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 9, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Martial horror you'e ignoring one key element. The damage to the property by this film. And by that I mean the treatment of the original characters is appalling and will have an effect on future box office.  Look at where the Transformer franchise ended up? In the gutter.
> 
> Will this kill the franchise?? Probably not. But hopefully it'll kill the yearly release schedule because they can't churn out one film a year and expect it to be quality.



But is the property really damaged? Star Wars survived the prequels, it can survive the reception of a movie that was not as poorly received as the prequels. If there is any damage, it's only because there are too many Star Wars flicks on the horizon and if people start feeling the movies aren't good, they will start to avoid them.

And "Transformers" has been making bad movies since...the first one? Maybe the 2nd one, if we're generous. It didn't start feeling the fatigue until 5.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 9, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> So let me get this straight they fucked Finn over for the Asian Box Office and still didn't get any Chinese Box Office?
> They saddled him with that dumb and lets be generous average girl Rose for a whole fucking movie.
> 
> Really brilliant KK sacrifice  Black American Box Office at home for  Chinese Box Office abroad then fail to get any Box Office Abroad.
> ...



Sorry I didn't see this post before.

The Greater China box office looks like this currently:

Mainland: $28 million
Hong Kong: $5 million
Macau: n/a (possibly included in HK figure?)
Taiwan: $3 million
---
TOTAL: $36 million



This means China is 2% of the worldwide gross despite containing 18% of the world's population. Ouch!

And in turn, Hong Kong-Macau-Taiwan make up 22% of China's gross despite being only 2% of China's population!

As we know, China has about 4x the population of the United States. Meaning that in an alternate universe where China has the same per capita interest in Star Wars as America does, we would expect the Chinese gross to be 4x the American gross of $574 million, i.e. $2,296 billion. China is only scoring a little over 1% of its "potential" gross.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jan 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> But is the property really damaged? Star Wars survived the prequels, it can survive the reception of a movie that was not as poorly received as the prequels. If there is any damage, it's only because there are too many Star Wars flicks on the horizon and if people start feeling the movies aren't good, they will start to avoid them.
> 
> And "Transformers" has been making bad movies since...the first one? Maybe the 2nd one, if we're generous. It didn't start feeling the fatigue until 5.



Martial, Age of Extinction may have been a bad movie, but there were two reasons people went to see it.

1) Grimlock
2) Optimus riding Grimlock into battle.

Even if you are not a transformers fan, the sight of Optimus Riding Grimlock in the trailer honestly sealed the deal for many people. Its a goddamn robot dinosaur. A robot warrior is riding a dinosaur. Think about it long and hard.

Now if you want to bring back people to star wars this is what you do.

You put Chewbacca on a Rancor and you give Chewbacca a Battle axe. And you give the Rancor a bigger battle axe. You know what, Give the Rancor a giant lightsaber.

No matter how bad the movie is, people will watch the trailer and they will come.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 9, 2018)

We'll probably have an idea of the final gross ca. the 15th.

While in America movies can have crazy long theatrical runs (6 months for The Force Awakens), most sane countries draw the curtain after about 1 month.


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## Skaddix (Jan 9, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Sorry I didn't see this post before.
> 
> The Greater China box office looks like this currently:
> 
> ...



Why does China Hate Star Wars? In your opinion no nostalgia? lame fight scenes? overly complicated backstory?


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## dr_shadow (Jan 9, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Why does China Hate Star Wars? In your opinion no nostalgia? lame fight scenes? overly complicated backstory?



Why don't Westerners love Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West?


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## Glued (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Why don't Westerners love Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West?


Why does China love Warcraft and Terminator Genysis?

Reactions: Like 2 | Useful 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Why don't Westerners love Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Journey to the West?



Those are classic though that be more like me saying why doesn't China love King Arthur and The Knights of the Round Table and the Iliad and the Odyssey.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Those are classic though that be more like me saying why doesn't China love King Arthur and The Knights of the Round Table and the Iliad and the Odyssey.



The CCTV television adaptations from the 80's and 90's are sort of the closest China has come to Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, and there's a comparable amount of merchandise in the form of trading cards and video games. So even though the source material is from 500 years ago it's still part of "pop culture".


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> The CCTV television adaptations from the 80's and 90's are sort of the closest China has come to Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, and there's a comparable amount of merchandise in the form of trading cards and video games. So even though the source material is from 500 years ago it's still part of "pop culture".



I am not saying that stuff is irrelevant. I mean sheesh Hollywood gives a Merlin or Arthur Adaptation every few years..... 

Granted I suppose you are right they are not on the level of Journey to the West or Romance of the Three Kingdoms. 

But my main point was compare it to something that is not a classic....

I mean Transformers sold...do they just like mecha stuff better? And I suppose the plot was simple and the action plentiful....

My main question though is you are the resident China Expert so why do you think Star Wars is weak in China? Besides No Nostalgia.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

China was enthralled by the likes of _Avatar_ and _F8 of the Furious_ of all things...

...let's just say that they aren't currently at the height of culture and sophistication.

but even then__even then__they know instinctively, intuitively even, that TLJ is a steaming pile of shit.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> My main question though is you are the resident China Expert so why do you think Star Wars is weak in China? Besides No Nostalgia.



*A. No nostalgia.* Chinese audiences never saw the original trilogy when it was new.

*B. Language and race barriers.* Most Chinese people are functionally monolingual. Even though they have English classes at school, only a small percentage ever achieve the level of fluency needed to follow a whole movie. Nowadays American blockbusters like Star Wars are generally shown in the original English with Chinese subtitles, not dubbed into Chinese. Meaning that a lot of the audience have to rely entirely on the subs to get what's going on. As a lot of Americans watching Chinese films can testify, reading subs can be a pain if you have_ no_ knowledge of the spoken language, and regardless you miss out on all the emotion and emphasis of the actors' performances.

Because of the extreme ethnic homogeneity of China, where foreigners make up only 0.1% of the population, Chinese people also struggle to identify with the typically Caucasian protagonists of American films. I wouldn't say it's conscious racism. It's more that movie-goers everywhere subconsciously want to imagine themselves as the protagonist of the film and try to feel what they feel, but this gets more difficult if the protagonist is of a different race and gender and speaks a different language from yourself. The reverse is true in America as well, where it is uncommon to see East Asian leads because producers think it will be a turn-off to the 70% Caucasian audience there. As ironic as it sounds, Chinese people think "all whites look alike" and have similar-sounding names, and trying to keep track of who is who can be a distraction when you're just trying to watch a movie.

*C. Storytelling and genre conventions.* Mainland Chinese cinema originates in the tradition of Communist propaganda film, where there is never any moral ambiguity and everything is clearly spelled out for the masses. "China - GOOD. Japan - BAD". Audiences therefore expect movies to be relatively straight-forward and not require them to do a lot of thinking. They can therefore get confused by the more nuanced and subtle aspects of Western cinema, especially if it requires cultural-specific knowledge of for example the Bible; they won't pick up on Anakin being the space Messiah and Palpatine being space-Satan.

As I said before, China also doesn't have a domestic science-fiction genre because the Communist Party regards it as a kind of superstition to speculate about what will happen in the future and whether or not there is alien life. They're therefore not used to regarding space ships and laser guns as something normal, and might therefore find the setting distractingly silly the way Western audiences think the "wire-fu" of Wuxia cinema is unforgivably unrealistic.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

@mr_shadow thank you that is what I wanted.

As for subtitles well i think we are all well adapted to subtitles on this site I will say its easier on a smaller screen though cause you can fit the subtitles and the action into your field of vision easily....a real pain in the ass when I have seen a big screen version.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> As I said before, China also doesn't have a domestic science-fiction genre because the Communist Party regards it as *a kind of superstition to speculate about what will happen in the future and whether or not there is alien life.* They're therefore not used to regarding space ships and laser guns as something normal, and might therefore find the setting distractingly silly the way Western audiences think the "wire-fu" of Wuxia cinema is unforgivably unrealistic.



even after 2000 years the idea that "_nothing worthwhile exists outside of China_" still persists in some form or another.

I love it

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 10, 2018)

TBH outside of overtly pandering changes like adding more Asian characters, a more subtle thing you could do is make the quasi-Buddhist/Daoist aspects of the Jedi more overt. Those are things that Chinese people recognize and understand from their own culture, but because most of them haven't seen The Empire Strikes Back they won't know that Yoda is basically a Daoist immortal who teaches Luke kung fu.

The scenes with Luke and Rey in TLJ obviously reference the Dagobah scenes in Empire, but I think it's too subtle for anyone to make the connection to kung fu cinema if they haven't actually seen the original trilogy. The whole film would have needed to be structurally closer to wuxia for people to make the connection.

Though when subtitling the word "Jedi knight" they do actually translate "knight" as_ wushi _武士, which is the same word the Chinese use for Japanese samurai. So the connection is kind of there a little bit.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

but Shadow, it's more important to let the past die!™

I mean, who the fuck cares about the mystical aspects of the force?...check out these Porg baybee! Buy muh merchandise!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zef (Jan 10, 2018)

SMH




Bait and switch *confirmed*



Also lol @ these mods on Force.net

The censorship....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

Zef said:


> SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dont you love how the sent the Token Black Mod to do it? Which thread was that anyway that got blocked? Still not a shocker, they really dont like you shit talking the new movies...i have said a thousands times stuff worse about Ahsoka and never got banned but call Rey a Mary Sue...Or say George did some racist shit fine but say KK is a racist and they are quick with the trigger.

@mr_shadow what do you think about criticisms of the fight scenes not being up to snuff as a reason China wasnt too interested?


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

Zef said:


> SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yoooo this shit is killing my sides...

I swear, neither Boyega or Hamill were aware of just how dirty they were gonna get fucked in this trilogy


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> yoooo this shit is killing my sides...
> 
> I swear, neither Boyega or Hamill were aware of just how dirty they were gonna get fucked in this trilogy



Course not baited them in and then pulled the script right out from under them. 

KK only cares about Adam Driver and Kylo Ren pretty sure she masturbates to him considering he didnt even had to audition. 

White Women are a secondary concern as self inserts ie White British Brunettes and the Diversity is to bait in rubes like us. 

3 Movies in and we dont got a single non white force user step off with that Diversity BS.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Course not baited them in and then pulled the script right out from under them.
> 
> KK only cares about Adam Driver and Kylo Ren pretty sure she masturbates to him considering he didnt even had to audition.
> 
> ...


the diversity thing in Hollywood only exists as 1) a shield against criticism; mainly from low level trash journalists and tumblerinas and 2) in order to push useless token Asian characters to fill seats in China

you wanna watch movies with diversity, delve into indie and foreign flicks cuz the only movies you're gonna get from mainstream Hollywood will generally be about slavery or borderline torture porn like *Detroit* (2017)

Reactions: Like 2


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## dr_shadow (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> @mr_shadow what do you think about criticisms of the fight scenes not being up to snuff?



Well, it doesn't help, of course.

Because of the Chinese market's difficulty with foreign languages, faces and cultural allusions, you have to communicate with them as you would with young children; through visual spectacle that is immediately obvious in its meaning without explanation.

I think that's why superhero movies do well here. Even if they don't remember the English names of the characters, they can at least talk about them as "hammer guy" and "shield guy" because they each have very distinctive weapons and costumes. It's not a problem if all white people look alike to you because Red Armour Guy and Blue Shield Guy have their faces hidden behind iconic masks most of the time anyway, and their fight scene looks cool even you're not entirely sure what they're fighting about.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Zef (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Dont you love how the sent the Token Black Mod to do it? Which thread was that anyway that got blocked? Still not a shocker, they really dont like you shit talking the new movies...i have said a thousands times stuff worse about Ahsoka and never got banned but call Rey a Mary Sue...Or say George did some racist shit fine but say KK is a racist and they are quick with the trigger.
> 
> @mr_shadow what do you think about criticisms of the fight scenes not being up to snuff?


It's the RJ responds to backlash thread.




They really acting like fascist over there banning people, and locking threads.



RAGING BONER said:


> yoooo this shit is killing my sides...
> 
> I swear, neither Boyega or Hamill were aware of just how dirty they were gonna get fucked in this trilogy


Even Daisy said she had issues with this film.


Now that the actors got their money they dragging RJ.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Well, it doesn't help, of course.
> 
> Because of the Chinese market's difficulty with foreign languages, faces and cultural allusions, you have to communicate with them as you would with young children; through visual spectacle that is immediately obvious in its meaning without explanation.
> 
> I think that's why superhero movies do well here. Even if they don't remember the English names of the characters, they can at least talk about them as "hammer guy" and "shield guy" because they each have very distinctive weapons and costumes. It's not a problem if all white people look alike to you because Red Armour Guy and Blue Shield Guy have their faces hidden behind iconic masks most of the time anyway, and their fight scene looks cool even you're not entirely sure what they're fighting about.


I can just imagine the confusion the Chinese audience must've felt during Captain America: Civil War 

_Why doesn't Shield guy submit to his government like good citizen? Oh, I see, he was criminal all along...look how he breaks people out of prison and protects murderers from Armor man's justice!_

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 10, 2018)

all the $$ that TLJ didnt make in China will go to Infinity War 

either way Mouse pocket


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## Skaddix (Jan 10, 2018)

Weiss said:


> all the $$ that TLJ didnt make in China will go to Infinity War
> 
> either way Mouse pocket



Lol Han Solo comes out after Infinity War so when people show up at the movie theatre and hear Solo is shit...they can shill out for Avengers again its brilliant. Watch Avengers in its 2nd or 3rd week beat Solo up at the Box Office.

@RAGING BONER U make a good point these pandering Asian Characters are absurd. If you are going to cast them at least make them relevant. No one wants to be a fucking Janitor or Mechanic in Star Wars.

Which reminds me I should apologize to Kishi....Rey wanting to save Kylo is far more absurd then anything Sakura or Naruto said or did to get back Sasuke.


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## Suigetsu (Jan 10, 2018)

The chinese are super racist and picky. They dont like murrican leftists as far as I know since they are way more concervative. Hollywood is literally sabotaging themselves inside out with all of this personal politic propaganda. They are like children.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 10, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Lol Han Solo comes out after Infinity War so when people show up at the movie theatre and hear Solo is shit...they can shill out for Avengers again its brilliant. Watch Avengers in its 2nd or 3rd week beat Solo up at the Box Office.
> 
> @RAGING BONER U make a good point these pandering Asian Characters are absurd. If you are going to cast them at least make them relevant. No one wants to be a fucking Janitor or Mechanic in Star Wars.
> 
> Which reminds me I should apologize to Kishi....Rey wanting to save Kylo is far more absurd then anything Sakura or Naruto said or did to get back Sasuke.


Doniie Yen and friend were probably more relevant before the reshoots happened.


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## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2018)

So I haven't watched this movie yet, but in Force Awakens I made a prediction that said that Luke Skywalker hid himself in a remote far off island planet because he had become so force sensitive, that his grief for every little cigarrette bud on his soul out there in the universe became dangerous to the point that if he were to go out there stomping around in the force he could do crazy damage like accidentally ripping holes in the fabric of time or some other crazy shit like that

Was I right?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 10, 2018)

Banhammer said:


> So I haven't watched this movie yet, but in Force Awakens I made a prediction that said that Luke Skywalker hid himself in a remote far off island planet because he had become so force sensitive, that his grief for every little cigarrette bud on his soul out there in the universe became dangerous to the point that if he were to go out there stomping around in the force he could do crazy damage like accidentally ripping holes in the fabric of time or some other crazy shit like that
> 
> Was I right?


theres milk from a tit

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2018)

Weiss said:


> theres milk from a tit


Is that a new meme ?


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## Banhammer (Jan 10, 2018)

thanks for the spoiler warning


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 10, 2018)

Also, Rey is Luke's bastard daughter

spoiler!


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## Ennoea (Jan 10, 2018)

China doesn't hate it. They just don't care.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Fang (Jan 10, 2018)

Based Japan hates it though for certain

Reactions: Old 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 10, 2018)

I think a better business model for Star Wars right now would've been releasing a movie every 2 years instead of 1, as it would allow the hype to build more effectively. They should've done the official trilogy first, instead of splitting it up between the spin-offs, as casual viewers will have more difficulty keeping up with the primary story. I have a co-worker who thought Jyn was Rey when "Rogue One" started dropping trailers. Then after they do the trilogy, then they could move into the spin-offs. Instead, "Rogue One" just took a bite out of Episode 8's momentum and Episode 9 and Han Solo seem to be in production at the same time. They're just spending too much money right now without making enough back. Even if the quality of these films remained the same, I think "Rogue One" and especially "TLJ" would've been more profitable if audiences just got some time to breathe between Star Wars releases.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Atlas (Jan 10, 2018)

I think a better business model would be to release movies that aren't shit.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Optimistic 1


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2018)

Darth Vader's helmet resembles a Japanese _kabuto,_ but I only recently realized that Kylo Ren's helmet resembles a German World War II helmet; does anyone here think that that was deliberate?

I know that I have said this, before, but it is terrible that Luke never had any romantic involvement in this new storyline; if a scoundrel such as Han can be married to a royal princess, a handsome hero with a nice personality such as Luke should surely have found love with a  queen or an empress. Does anyone else think that that was completely unfair?


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## dr_shadow (Jan 10, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that I have said this, before, but it is terrible that Luke never had any romantic involvement in this new storyline; if a scoundrel such as Han can be married to a royal princess, a handsome hero with a nice personality such as Luke should surely have found love with a  queen or an empress. Does anyone else think that that was completely unfair?



The Jedi are supposed to be celibate.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> The Jedi are supposed to be celibate.



That rule was not established until _Attack of the Clones,_ long after the original trilogy, and Luke certainly would not have followed such a rule, since he wished for his new Jedi order to be free of the self-righteousness and ridiculously strict rules of the original Jedi order.


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## Glued (Jan 10, 2018)

A vow of celibacy honestly makes sense for a martial order. The Knights Templars and the Shaolin Monks being prime examples.



DemonDragonJ said:


> Darth Vader's helmet resembles a Japanese _kabuto,_ but I only recently realized that Kylo Ren's helmet resembles a German World War II helmet; does anyone here think that that was deliberate?



Yes, the new movies are very heavy handed in their message. In Force Awakens they did the Sieg Heil and the fact Kylo Ren's Helmet is World War II helmet only more bluntness.


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## Fang (Jan 10, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> The Jedi are supposed to be celibate.



Lucas just said they can't marry or have permanent relationships, they didn't have to be celibate.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 10, 2018)

Fang said:


> Lucas just said they can't marry or have permanent relationships, they didn't have to be celibate.





DemonDragonJ said:


> That rule was not established until _Attack of the Clones,_ long after the original trilogy, and Luke certainly would not have followed such a rule, since he wished for his new Jedi order to be free of the self-righteousness and ridiculously strict rules of the original Jedi order.



It would confuse too many people.


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## Markerz (Jan 10, 2018)

Weren't luke and Leia made from Anakin breaking that rule? I dont see why he would follow it when honestly it's not like it'll be a bad thing for him to get married or find love.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 11, 2018)

Markerz said:


> Weren't luke and Leia made from Anakin breaking that rule? I dont see why he would follow it when honestly it's not like it'll be a bad thing for him to get married or find love.



Anakin's attachment to Padmé is what led him to the Dark Side, causing the deaths of almost all Jedi and, among countless others, the entire population of Alderaan.

Force users are too powerful to have selfish interests, because the consequences can be disastrous.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Fang (Jan 11, 2018)

It wasn't Anakin being in love that lead him to the dark side, it was him being reckless that lead him into Palpatine's hands.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Jan 11, 2018)

Him being rash and emotional directly led to his downfall, they stated and showed it countless times.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 11, 2018)

Fang said:


> It wasn't Anakin being in love that lead him to the dark side, it was him being reckless that lead him into Palpatine's hands.



His attachment to his mother and Padmé is what made him lose his equilibrium. He was willing to go to disproportionate lengths to save/avenge them.

A Jedi is supposed to love all life equally because all life is equally part of the Force.


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## Fang (Jan 11, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> His attachment to his mother and Padmé is what made him lose his equilibrium. He was willing to go to disproportionate lengths to save/avenge them.
> 
> A Jedi is supposed to love all life equally because all life is equally part of the Force.



That's not true. Luke uses love and emotions to return Anakin to the light side and bring balance to the Force. The PT outright shows that Jedi were expected to have "no" emotions, hence why they shun attachments. The lack of emotional awareness or understanding, the attempt to be almost drone like in their shunning of connections is what highlights why Luke shows the error of Yoda and Obi-Wan's stubbornness to the old ways.

A Jedi was "supposed" to be blank. Neither Luke nor Anakin fit that mold but emotions are not a bad thing, hence why Lucas says "Luke becomes the man Anakin was supposed to become."

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 11, 2018)

Fang said:


> That's not true. Luke uses love and emotions to return Anakin to the light side and bring balance to the Force. The PT outright shows that Jedi were expected to have "no" emotions, hence why they shun attachments. The lack of emotional awareness or understanding, the attempt to be almost drone like in their shunning of connections is what highlights why Luke shows the error of Yoda and Obi-Wan's stubbornness to the old ways.
> 
> A Jedi was "supposed" to be blank. Neither Luke nor Anakin fit that mold but emotions are not a bad thing, hence why Lucas says "Luke becomes the man Anakin was supposed to become."



Luke ran away from Yoda before completing his training due to emotional attachment to his friends, and almost got killed as a result.


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## Fang (Jan 11, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Luke ran away from Yoda before completing his training due to emotional attachment to his friends, and almost got killed as a result.



What does that have to do with ROTJ? He returned to his training and still refused to follow Obi-Wan and Yoda's advice to turn into a emotionless warrior monk. What turned Vader back to Anakin Skywalker? Luke appealing to his fatherly love and emotional attachment to him being murdered on the spot by the Emperor.

End result, emotions were proven to be good despite the old Jedi insisting they were bad universally.


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## Skaddix (Jan 11, 2018)

You know they are not wrong besides Oscar Issacs this aint really the hottest cast that Hollywood has hired. 

Hotter Cast, Less Continuity, More Competent Villains and Better Fights.


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## Zef (Jan 11, 2018)

^From that article



> Many potential viewers, *upon hearing that a recently released film is actually the seventh or eighth in a series, feel they have too much catching up to do.*



I think this here is proof that Disney needs to slow down on the rate they're pumping out these movies.

I see the same thing eventually happening to superhero films. Genre fatigue is a thing.




> Other factors, according to Chen, include Chinese audiences’ preference for physically attractive protagonists and *stories rooted in reality.*


>Rooted in reality

>Goes on to praise Marvel


Lol, Kay



> Other factors, according to Chen, include Chinese audiences’ preference for physically attractive protagonists and stories rooted in reality. He points out that, for example, superhero films from Marvel — a Disney cash cow that has enjoyed great success in China — feature recognizable settings, such as New York and even China, and are filled with larger-than-life leads who meet the public’s aesthetic standards. The Star Wars characters, meanwhile, look ordinary by comparison.
> 
> “*These actors aren’t very beautiful, which may deter a lot of Chinese from seeing the recent films,” said Chen. “We fans often joke that if Finn were played by Will Smith, Chinese people might be more inclined to watch it — because he’s very handsome.*”


Fuck this.


Remind me never to go to China, I don't want to get harassed just because I don't look like a super model.

Mark and Carrie are physically old. Nothing can be done with that.

Daisy looks okay.

Tran looks decent irl with make up, and her hair let down.

idk what type of hairstyle they decided to give her in the film, but it's a large part in why she looks like a troll there.

Ain't nothing wrong with Boyega's appearance. He ain't no Will Smith, but he ain't no Steve Urkel either.

He probably looks better then half the population over there.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 11, 2018)

snippet from the article


> “_the whole film really insults the IQ of its audience,_”

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 11, 2018)

> Other factors, according to Chen, include Chinese audiences’ preference for physically attractive protagonists and stories rooted in reality. He points out that, for example, superhero films from Marvel — a Disney cash cow that has enjoyed great success in China — feature recognizable settings, such as New York and even China, and are filled with larger-than-life leads who meet the public’s aesthetic standards. The Star Wars characters, meanwhile, look ordinary by comparison.
> *
> “These actors aren’t very beautiful, which may deter a lot of Chinese from seeing the recent films,” said Chen. “We fans often joke that if Finn were played by Will Smith, Chinese people might be more inclined to watch it — because he’s very handsome.”*


MCU formula is scientifically perfect

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ennoea (Jan 11, 2018)

Pandering to the Chinese?? The have no taste anyway. Let them watch Transformers.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 11, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Pandering to the Chinese?? The have no taste anyway. Let them watch Transformers.


It is hard to develop one in a dictatorship.


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## Jake CENA (Jan 11, 2018)

oh china...


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

Disney should just strike a deal with the CPP to tell the Chinese that "its patriotic" to watch the new Star Wars film. TLJ would suddenly become the most profitable movie in history.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

Jokes aside @mr_shadow how much of an effect would and endoresment of the CPP on a movie have?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

Admiral Holdo's Planet: (Thanks to @The Immortal WatchDog for bringing this to attention)



> *Gatalenta* was a warm, uncommonly tranquil  famed for its , lengthy, erudite  and meditative retreats. Natives of Gatalenta were renowned for their calmness and serenity, and rose each day to thank the planet's multiple  for rising. Love and compassion were taught and practiced fondly by the people of Gatalenta, and crying openly was considered a virtue and proof of a caring heart.The Gatalentan people were also known for living austerely, with the only parts of their attire being traditional  . They were ruled by the .  was illegal on the planet, and slaves were not allowed to be brought to the planet. If a slave was brought there, and their master was caught, the slave was set free





Can you guys imagine the equivalent of presidential debates in that planet?

Crying fests to determine the winner.

Maybe Crylo Ren went to train on that planet? Would explain a lot.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zef (Jan 11, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Crylo Ren



I'm gonna use this


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## Skaddix (Jan 11, 2018)

Zef said:


> I'm gonna use this



U say that like its new not one of the most common Kylo Slams.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 11, 2018)

Although I don't remember Kylo Ren actually crying in either of the movies...


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Although I don't remember Kylo Ren actually crying in either of the movies...



He certaintly whines a lot. And he cried when he killed Han Solo.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 11, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Jokes aside @mr_shadow how much of an effect would and endoresment of the CPP on a movie have?



Lol, I guess it would help, but the Party never endorses foreign films. xD At least not that I can recall.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 11, 2018)

Kylo is awesome

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Kylo is awesome



At failing? Sure.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 11, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> He certaintly whines a lot. And he cried when he killed Han Solo.



So crying when you kill your own Father= 'cry' based nickname?

Instead, it should be...Whylo...Whino-F@ck it, Crylo it is.


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## Skaddix (Jan 11, 2018)

Crylo sounds better the point was he was a whiny bitch most of the time.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 11, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Force users are too powerful to have selfish interests, because the consequences can be disastrous.



I disagree with that, as, prior to Disney acquiring Lucasfilm, the writers did an excellent job of having Leia being happily married to Han and Luke finding love with Mara Jade.


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## Zef (Jan 11, 2018)

Crylo should have been bald if they were gonna have him remove his mask. 
I can't take him seriously with his Snape hairstyle.

Also he flips flops more then Saauke. Worse villain ever!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

Zef said:


> Crylo should have been bald if they were gonna have him remove his mask.
> I can't take him seriously with his Snape hairstyle.
> 
> Also he flips flops more then Saauke. Worse villain ever!



I wish I coulg rate your post 100 timed over.

Crylo is the worst shit to ever happen in SW.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So crying when you kill your own Father= 'cry' based nickname?
> 
> Instead, it should be...Whylo...Whino-F@ck it, Crylo it is.



Its more because of crying + whinning.

Simply put thinking of Crylo makes you think of a crying bitch.

He should run for president at Holdo's planet 

Faylo would also be a most suitable name.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 11, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> I wish I coulg rate your post 100 timed over.
> 
> Crylo is the worst shit to ever happen in SW.



Even worse than Jar Jar Binks?

Because he was so bad that fans dealt with the trauma by forging him into the villain, as that was the only way to bring balance to the saga, apparently.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 11, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Anakin's attachment to Padmé is what led him to the Dark Side, causing the deaths of almost all Jedi and, among countless others, the entire population of Alderaan..



No anakins social attachment disorder issues, his possessiveness and his use of emotional connections as a crutch is what drove him to the darkside. Anakins problem wasn't love, love of a son for a father he never knew and had every reason to hate is what ultimately destroy the Sith.  A general love of life and the living force is what drove Qui Gon Jinn and Yoda's selfless empathy are what allowed them both to achieve immortality. Nomi Sunrider's love for her child and the men in her life is ultimately what destroyed the Sith in her period and so on.

Compare that to Palpatines psychotic narcissism, his extreme ego and "love of self" is ultimately what blinded him to Vader and got him hurled down a reactor shaft. Hell, the Jedi Order tends to suffer purges and collapse whenever they go extreme in terms of self denial and discipline. 

Anakin Skywalker was a fucked up human being, Yoda and the Council were too dogmatic and orthodox to recognize that telling a guy whose got an intense fear of being alone that's prone to being irrationally resentful to just "bury his feelings" was not going to be very constructive. If someone like say Bastilla Shan or Sunrider or Odan Urr trained Anakin shit likely would have been very different.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 11, 2018)

I'll point out that the events of TFA and TLJ take place over a few days at most and Kylo's utter obsession with getting Anakin/Vader's original lightsaber is completely ignored as a motivation or factor in TLJ once he has Rey showing up on Snoke's flagship. Rian can't keep plot points for shit in his story. Kylo simply not caring is just another nail in the coffin to me that the man simply decided to jump shark and not care at whatever was set up in TFA's mystery box.

Hell, the original trailers have Luke narrating that the Force is strong with his family and the last line is directed at Rey but that got shafted hard too.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Fang (Jan 12, 2018)

lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 12, 2018)

Oh look, its other of those "fans are to blame for not liking this movie.

Girl, I went to this movie WANTING to watch it, to the point I was willing to accept a gay Luke Skywalker and Mary Sue Rey becoming stronger than Darth Sidious in this film. They somehow managed to go below that bar.



			
				Ann Hornaday said:
			
		

> But the most crucial starting point for viewers should be going into the theater as a tabula rasa, as blank a slate as possible, the better for a film to leave them surprised, delighted and perhaps permanently changed.



Yeah, right. I am sorry, but you don't get to pull that shit for the 8th movie in a 12 movies triple trilogy that is part of a 30+ years saga.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 12, 2018)

The problem with Rey and I think a lot of people miss this. Isn't that she is super powerful, I mean we've had chicks go from zero to "savior of the galaxy" relatively quickly, Nomi Sunrider who was probably the most accomplished leader of the Jedi order in history save for Yoda and who a lot of the old EU loved comparing Yoda and Luke too (ie she seemed to be a benchmark?) was basically a soccer mom before she became a Jedi. Now, she was a lot more tolerable and enjoyable as a character, mostly because she had personality and a little depth. Her story was interesting, you wanted to find out what was gonna happen to her and her kid, her master Thon was six shades of awesome and embodied "judge me not by my looks" and her romantic entanglements weren't too annoying. Hell, as forced and poorly executed as Padme/Anakin was, Padme had personality, she had guts, she was an experience politician and it showed the few times she wasn't just a device to forward Anakins plot. Anakin himself was really annoying in the movies, but the character had moments where you felt for the guy, hated with him, raged with him, grieved with him etc etc. He had a soul even if it was a withered, stunted thing.

Rey is nothing..she has nothing, she's got no soul, she isn't even bland because to be bland requires having a personality. She is basically an artifice, a fucking moving point in the story to advance the plot...She's not alive, or vivid, her role in the story could easily have been filled by Poe Damerron who has the guts of Han Solo and the intrepid piloting skills, defiance and recklessness of both Anakin and Luke and he's got the spirit and drive to be a solid Jedi. Hell Finn has more of a reason to be the Last Jedi (urgh), he's essentially a slave soldier conscripted in his youth, brain washed and sent out to do murderous deeds that were against his inner nature which is inherently altruistic. He's got the instincts of a warrior and the wide eyed wonder at the galaxy you'd expect from a Jedi apprentice, from a knight to be. The ethos you;'d want in the founder of your new order and so on.

So not only do these characters fit the archetype of a Jedi, someone you want to pin the future of an order on, but they are established characters, with their own conflicts and story and obstacles an old life to overcome be it pride in Poe's case and being something more than a "mere fighter pilot" or in finns case, the fear of the darkness the FO represents to stand as more than just a run away and fight for those still trapped under their might. But they are also...you know..characters, Finn may be crummy but at least he is a character. So why Rey?

Hell, if it was as simple as needing a female lead you could have easily flipped Finn's gender and made her the new Jedi and not only are there a decent amount of young black actresses you could trust to give the character at least the same amount of life (probably more because lets be honest here, Boyega kinda sucks). So no, there was something more, I think they weren't interest in appeasing the female demographic with Rey because little girls grow up and by the age of like 11 you start to have a better grasp of fiction and you can tell she isn't a character..she's a really shitty living plot device. Young adults? Most of them are fawning over Kylo Ren or Poe or fucking Chewie because millennials are weirdos. So why does Rey exist? She doesn't appeal to girls beyond a certain age and I doubt most womenfolk give a darn about her?

So why? What possible demographic could she possibly be designed for? Note that Rahcel Hurd-Wood an actress that both looks a bit like what you'd think a daughter of Mara Jade and Luke Skywalker would look like, is an actual talent with experience in the business, is young and is decently pretty (she has fucking stunning eyes) she was called to audition and then..was immediately passed over for Daisy Ridley an actress of comparable age with zero personal experience, a very stunted roster of facial expressions and ultimately not that pretty. Ontop of that Ridley has massive health problems, to the point where the companies that insured the movie were actually protesting her casting on the basis that they were worried she was going to fucking die on set (this is something that is glossed over and ignored and Ridley has only alluded too), so why cast a generic looking, limited performer with a severe set of ailments that put her at risk? There is no valid answer if you look at this from the perspective of showmen and entertainers crafting a story for the purpose of telling a story and making a fuckload of money...but if you're an SJW in a bubble..and the only feedback you get in your little echo chamber is from a certain..notoriously bland, ragey, hyper sensitive, weak and ultimately unremarkable corner of the net..then well it begins to make sense.

Rey wasn't created to be a central character in a story, whose trials, tribulations, struggles and victories all lead to the restoration of the Jedi and the ultimate and triumphant return of the light...Nope...she was a tumblr users understanding of what they think a character is. In all their bland, generic, boring, dull idiotically "inclusive while not really being" propagandist, nonsensical world views glory...the lame ass, generic art everyone mocks them for...The stupid views they have that even other progressives point and laugh at..their macabre glorification of disability and crippling impediments and their fetishistic praise of "non traditional beauty standards" and "strong female leads' (which are ultimately rather demeaning to women if you think a strong woman equals to having the personality of a wooden crate ) and its very clear Kennedy who was once a force of quality in the industry got drunk off her own ego and went looking for the loudest echo chamber she could find and her penchant for hiring wastrels and talentless hacks like Chuck Wendig and other sycophantic idiots..who frequent the same cesspits of the internet for validation and confirmation.

See, thats the problem with Rey, she was created for a demographic that is worthless, means nothing, contributes nothing and is such a minority they'd be lucky to get a few hundred bucks out of them..by people who were convinced their little gilded exile in that shithole bubble was indicative of the sentiments and desires of the whole fucking world and they forced this...worthless monstrosity on us and on a franchise that has been shaping pop culture for decades...a new and modern mythology, the new trilogy was supposed to the Aeneid, the Achaean's (the first order) had already destroyed Troy (the new republic) and the last of its mighty champions fell, consumed by his own despair and failings and it now falls on Aeneas to reform the line, rebuild and start a new. Only this time Aeneas isn't some bold hero and adventurer who thought gifted by the gods still struggles, naw she's a pointless, soulless...automaton that moves the plot forward in ways that could easily be done by competent story telling or by one of the aforementioned characters.

so yeah, Rey isn't a marry sue, she isn't even that "developed" she's a fucking thing...she is plot points with legs, a living Deus Ex machina..and people inherently dislike her because she isn't there...your senses see this weird desert dweller with a forehead Ted Danson, Kristen Stewart and Ron Pearlman would be impressed by but your brain, especially the critical part instinctively recognizes _there's nothing there, you're looking at something that isn't supposed to be.
_
And that, ladies and gents is whats wrong with Rey...she's a piece of behind the scenes movement that was thrust into the spotlight where it never should be and like some fucking lovecraftian horror that shouldn't be...we as readers and viewers inherently reject her existence because she is a deconstruction of story telling without meaning to be.

in other words...Rey is a fucking fourth wall breaking Abeloth 

fuck her and fuck the Tumblr like fantards she was created for..that thing...pretty much kills star wars by its mere existence.

Reactions: Winner 6


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## Orochibuto (Jan 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Even worse than Jar Jar Binks?
> 
> Because he was so bad that fans dealt with the trauma by forging him into the villain, as that was the only way to bring balance to the saga, apparently.



Jar Jar Binks was annoying, maybe unbearable, and theres that. Nothing else. He got pretty much shoved into the background in Ep II and was nigh non existant in Ep III.

Kylo, you can't ignore him, because he is one of the core characters of the film and has a core impact on them.

Ep VIII is like seeing Jar Jar overthrowing Palpatine and having to live with him as the main villain for Episode III (not even for a new trilogy, but for its home trilogy).


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## Orochibuto (Jan 12, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The problem with Rey and I think a lot of people miss this. Isn't that she is super powerful, I mean we've had chicks go from zero to "savior of the galaxy" relatively quickly, Nomi Sunrider who was probably the most accomplished leader of the Jedi order in history save for Yoda and who a lot of the old EU loved comparing Yoda and Luke too (ie she seemed to be a benchmark?) was basically a soccer mom before she became a Jedi. Now, she was a lot more tolerable and enjoyable as a character, mostly because she had personality and a little depth. Her story was interesting, you wanted to find out what was gonna happen to her and her kid, her master Thon was six shades of awesome and embodied "judge me not by my looks" and her romantic entanglements weren't too annoying. Hell, as forced and poorly executed as Padme/Anakin was, Padme had personality, she had guts, she was an experience politician and it showed the few times she wasn't just a device to forward Anakins plot. Anakin himself was really annoying in the movies, but the character had moments where you felt for the guy, hated with him, raged with him, grieved with him etc etc. He had a soul even if it was a withered, stunted thing.
> 
> Rey is nothing..she has nothing, she's got no soul, she isn't even bland because to be bland requires having a personality. She is basically an artifice, a fucking moving point in the story to advance the plot...She's not alive, or vivid, her role in the story could easily have been filled by Poe Damerron who has the guts of Han Solo and the intrepid piloting skills, defiance and recklessness of both Anakin and Luke and he's got the spirit and drive to be a solid Jedi. Hell Finn has more of a reason to be the Last Jedi (urgh), he's essentially a slave soldier conscripted in his youth, brain washed and sent out to do murderous deeds that were against his inner nature which is inherently altruistic. He's got the instincts of a warrior and the wide eyed wonder at the galaxy you'd expect from a Jedi apprentice, from a knight to be. The ethos you;'d want in the founder of your new order and so on.
> 
> ...



Its funny when you consider that a trilogy and creators obsessed with diversity, creates shit like Rey and the best they can come up with is Finn. Yet when Star Wars didn't gave a shit about that, we got Mace fucking Windu.


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## Mider T (Jan 12, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Lol, I guess it would help, but the Party never endorses foreign films. xD At least not that I can recall.


Not even The Great Wall?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 12, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Jar Jar Binks was annoying, maybe unbearable, and theres that. Nothing else. He got pretty much shoved into the background in Ep II and was nigh non existant in Ep III.
> 
> Kylo, you can't ignore him, because he is one of the core characters of the film and has a core impact on them.
> 
> Ep VIII is like seeing Jar Jar overthrowing Palpatine and having to live with him as the main villain for Episode III (not even for a new trilogy, but for its home trilogy).



The problem I have with this statement is that Jar Jar wasn't just annoying, he kept disrupting the tone for the rest of the movie. You have this big final fight where the hero is slain, but it's surrounded with the goofy shenanigans of Jar Jar, whicvh ruins the intended emotion. Kylo Ren might not be a good primary villain, but he doesn't have a toxic effect on the scenes he's not in. 

Granted, I think it's kind of a pointless debate until we see what they do in the next episode, as they have to do something to make him as a credible final threat. J.J Abrams isn't Rian Johnson. He's not going to shake the status quota and formula demands that the stakes are completely against the heroes. Unless they introduce someone new, they'll have to find a way to make Kylo Ren threatening. If they pull it off, then would you agree that vindicates this problem that you have with these movies? I never minded Kylo Ren because I see him as a developing villain. In Episode 7, he's revealed to be nothing more than an insecure Vader wannabe. In Episode 8, he realizes that living in Vader's shadow is counter-productive. It is a step forward for his character development, but Episode 9 does need to complete his embracing of villainy. If only because J.J is a safe and reliable director, I think they'll pull it off...somehow.  

It would've been interesting though if Rey's allegiance wasn't so clearly defined at the end of Episode 8, as it would've been funny if she became the villain of Episode 9. It would even be funnier if Kylo Ren was forced to become her servant and Finn had to step up to be the main hero.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Glued (Jan 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The problem I have with this statement is that Jar Jar wasn't just annoying, he kept disrupting the tone for the rest of the movie. You have this big final fight where the hero is slain, but it's surrounded with the goofy shenanigans of Jar Jar, whicvh ruins the intended emotion. Kylo Ren might not be a good primary villain, but he doesn't have a toxic effect on the scenes he's not in.
> 
> Granted, I think it's kind of a pointless debate until we see what they do in the next episode, as they have to do something to make him as a credible final threat. J.J Abrams isn't Rian Johnson. He's not going to shake the status quota and formula demands that the stakes are completely against the heroes. Unless they introduce someone new, they'll have to find a way to make Kylo Ren threatening. If they pull it off, then would you agree that vindicates this problem that you have with these movies? I never minded Kylo Ren because I see him as a developing villain. In Episode 7, he's revealed to be nothing more than an insecure Vader wannabe. In Episode 8, he realizes that living in Vader's shadow is counter-productive. It is a step forward for his character development, but Episode 9 does need to complete his embracing of villainy. If only because J.J is a safe and reliable director, I think they'll pull it off...somehow.
> 
> It would've been interesting though if Rey's allegiance wasn't so clearly defined at the end of Episode 8, as it would've been funny if she became the villain of Episode 9. It would even be funnier if Kylo Ren was forced to become her servant and Finn had to step up to be the main hero.



Kylo first needs to build himself some hype before he can be wroth considered a monster.

I'm guessing he will either kill Chewbacca, Poe or Rose, possibly he may injure Rey.

Because right now he isn't worth calling a villain.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 12, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Kylo first needs to build himself some hype before he can be wroth considered a monster.
> 
> I'm guessing he will either kill Chewbacca, Poe or Rose, possibly he may injure Rey.
> 
> Because right now he isn't worth calling a villain.



It wouldn't surprise me if he was originally supposed to kill Leia in Episode 9. 

Another amazing ending is that it's revealed Kylo was Jar Jar Binks all along. I'd totally be down with Jar Jar's voice coming out of Adam Driver's mouth.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Jan 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if he was originally supposed to kill Leia in Episode 9.



Probably, but now Uncle Chewy is all he has left.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 12, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Probably, but now Uncle Chewy is all he has left.



Or...THE PORG!


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Its funny when you consider that a trilogy and creators obsessed with diversity, creates shit like Rey and the best they can come up with is Finn. Yet when Star Wars didn't gave a shit about that, we got Mace fucking Windu.



PREACH I TRADE FINN FOR LANDO OR MACE IN A FUCKING SECOND. And they call George the racist at least he kept his racist caricatures as fucking Aliens. 

They wont even let Finn beat TR-8R meanwhile Mace got to put in work against fucking Palpatine. Heck Mace looked better against Palpatine then fucking Yoda and he got a unique lightsaber, Finn dont even own his jacket. And Lando was a king of cool with a fucking city and lead the Space Battle against Death Star II, Finn gets led around by fucking Rose, a supporting character.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 3


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## Saishin (Jan 13, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Jouninja (Jan 13, 2018)

Anyways, I thought the newest movie was good. Would it have been better if the Luke scene wasn't a hologram, but that he actually blocked all those lasers with sheer force power, and had an actual lightsaber fight with Kylo? With blades clashing and everything? Then after some awesome swordplay, turn into force energy like Obi-Wan did in his final fight, once the others escaped or maybe he himself escaped but weakened? I don't know, I guess the way it went is still good since it represents the light side and it ultimately defends without attacking at all as it's best merit.

I think they are saving the awesome lightsaber fight for the final showdown of Episode 9?

No, I have not fallen to the derp side of the force or anything. Mockery leads to absurdity, absurdity leads to triggering, triggering leads to the DERP side of the farce.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2018)

Jouninja said:


> Would it have been better if he actually blocked all those lasers with sheer force power


no


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 13, 2018)

Jouninja said:


> Anyways, I thought the newest movie was good. Would it have been better if the Luke scene wasn't a hologram, but that he actually blocked all those lasers with sheer force power, and had an actual lightsaber fight with Kylo? With blades clashing and everything? Then after some awesome swordplay, turn into force energy like Obi-Wan did in his final fight, once the others escaped or maybe he himself escaped but weakened? I don't know, I guess the way it went is still good since it represents the light side and it ultimately defends without attacking at all as it's best merit.
> 
> I think they are saving the awesome lightsaber fight for the final showdown of Episode 9?
> 
> No, I have not fallen to the derp side of the force or anything. Mockery leads to absurdity, absurdity leads to triggering, triggering leads to the DERP side of the farce.


are you mentioning Luke's Mirage scene because you think that's the biggest problem people have with the movie?

because I can tell you now that_ every scene_ -from beginning to end- is poorly thought out and terribly executed...with, ironically, little to no consequence to the overall story. 
Which after this fiasco leads one to wonder: _What* is *the overall story_and do I even care now?
_
I hate to repeat myself (but I love doing things I hate): the blatant disrespect of the lore is the least of this movie's problems.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2018)

TLJ is a convoluted mess and a steaming pile of MCU crappy "humor" shoved into it. The franchise is poisoned by it, and the Soylo movie is only going to make things worse.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2018)

MCU humor is great, cant get enough of it


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2018)

Low tier b8

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> are you mentioning Luke's Mirage scene because you think that's the biggest problem people have with the movie?
> 
> because I can tell you now that_ every scene_ -from beginning to end- is poorly thought out and terribly executed...with, ironically, little to no consequence to the overall story.
> Which after this fiasco leads one to wonder: _What* is *the overall story_and do I even care now?
> ...



lol, seemingly 80% of your posts have been "every scene is broken", often without even changing the words. What's the point of repeating the same post if you're just going to end it there?


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## Glued (Jan 13, 2018)

Perhaps we should all just let the past die. If that is what Disney wants, so be it. They bought it upon themselves.

Unless they put Chewbacca on a rancor. Then the next movie will be a must see.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Jan 13, 2018)

Weiss said:


> MCU humor is great, cant get enough of it


MCU humor is good in MCU movies

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2018)

canon SW x Avengers crossover in 2021


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2018)

Weiss said:


> SW x Avengers crossover


serious btw

think Mouse would ever do it ?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 13, 2018)

No..

We may get a cameo appearance tho


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, seemingly 80% of your posts have been "every scene is broken", often without even changing the words. *What's the point of repeating the same post* if you're just going to end it there?

Reactions: Like 2


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2018)

Here is an interesting video on the making of Star Wars and why George Lucas was very lucky he had 3 exceptional editors to make the original movie work. Interestingly, so many of the flaws of the prequels can be see in his original cut of "Star Wars". 



But still, what's the point? You're preaching to the choir. Either people don't like the movie and you're telling them what they already know or they do like the movie and are going to ignore you in favor of the people who go into detail as to why they don't like it.


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2018)

Lucky? The first editor was fired by Lucas on his own orders because the dude nearly ruined the entire film with his way of editing the footage and film sequences. And his successor was the one picked by Lucas who managed to help Lucas piece together and fix the film into the one we all know and love.

There's nothing about luck here.


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## Markerz (Jan 13, 2018)

Weiss said:


> MCU humor is great, cant get enough of it


I agree I love the mcu's humor but when I watch a star wars movie I dont think it really works well with it.


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## Glued (Jan 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Here is an interesting video on the making of Star Wars and why George Lucas was very lucky he had 3 exceptional editors to make the original movie work. Interestingly, so many of the flaws of the prequels can be see in his original cut of "Star Wars".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed, we can all use help from time to time.

"A good king listens to his advisors," Tywin Lannister.

Perhaps the prequels would have been better received if someone was there to reel George in from time to time.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 14, 2018)

Weiss said:


> serious btw
> 
> think Mouse would ever do it ?



They'll do whatever it takes to make money because they're a business

So depends on how profitable the idea looks on paper *shrugs*

I imagine you'll at least get a crossover video game at some point with all their current IP


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## Ennoea (Jan 14, 2018)

Lucas was lucky not only due to editors but the sound, music composition, visual effects teams etc. Alot went right during Star wars production but at some point it's  more than luck. I think it helped that Star wars was a collaborative project.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Lucas was lucky not only due to editors but the sound, music composition, visual effects teams etc. Alot went right during Star wars production but at some point it's  more than luck. I think it helped that Star wars was a collaborative project.





Ben Grimm said:


> Indeed, we can all use help from time to time.
> 
> "A good king listens to his advisors," Tywin Lannister.
> 
> Perhaps the prequels would have been better received if someone was there to reel George in from time to time.



Filmmaking is always a collaborative project and sometimes I think directors get too much credit anyway...although admittedly I don't know how much is 'too much'. The problem with the prequels is that George surrounded himself with yes men and didn't seem to take anyones advice. 



Fang said:


> Lucky? The first editor was fired by Lucas on his own orders because the dude nearly ruined the entire film with his way of editing the footage and film sequences. And his successor was the one picked by Lucas who managed to help Lucas piece together and fix the film into the one we all know and love.
> 
> There's nothing about luck here.



It was three successors and while you're technically right that it wasn't about luck, Lucas also chose the editors for the prequels. There is a 'making of' documentary about "The Phantom Menace", where everyone involved realizes they had created some serious mood whiplash for the finale (surrounding the Maul fight with Jar Jar Binks), which was a similar problem that the editors fixed in the beginning of the original "Star Wars" (where the epic space battle would've been intercut with scenes of Luke bumbling). Either they didn't know what they were doing or they were too afraid to challenge Lucas, so sometimes you get the right people and sometimes you don't.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

Zef said:


> Crylo should have been bald if they were gonna have him remove his mask.
> I can't take him seriously with his Snape hairstyle.



What is wrong with his hair? I like it, and think that it makes him look more evil, because it is raven black, which sharply contrasts with his fair skin. I think that the writers wished for a physically attractive villain, to contrast with the very unattractive Snoke.



MartialHorror said:


> The problem I have with this statement is that Jar Jar wasn't just annoying, he kept disrupting the tone for the rest of the movie. You have this big final fight where the hero is slain, but it's surrounded with the goofy shenanigans of Jar Jar, whicvh ruins the intended emotion. Kylo Ren might not be a good primary villain, but he doesn't have a toxic effect on the scenes he's not in.



I feel the same way about the ewoks in _Return of the Jedi;_ the scenes with Luke and Palpatine aboard the Death Star were amazing, but the fact that the film continuously returned to the scenes on Endor, with the ewoks fighting the empire, too sharply contrasted with the tension of the scenes on the Death Star.



Weiss said:


> no



Why do you say that? I think that that would have been awesome.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Jan 14, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Lucas was lucky not only due to editors but the sound, music composition, visual effects teams etc. Alot went right during Star wars production but at some point it's  more than luck. I think it helped that Star wars was a collaborative project.



Sound and editing I stand by has nothing to do with luck. Part of the reason why people are still amazed by the PT's soundtrack was because of how heavily involved he was in telling John Williams what he wanted, how he wanted it, and how to set it up before letting the composer do his thing. Then look at the Sequel Trilogy's Episodes VII and VIII, other than the latter recycling some tracks from the Prequels and Originals, there's hardly anything that stands out that doesn't sound like generic re-compositions of the same music. Williams not given direction doesn't do well.

TFA's soundtrack was utterly forgettable with its original music and TLJ is barely a set up from it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> What is wrong with his hair? I like it, and think that it makes him look more evil, because it is raven black, which sharply contrasts with his fair skin. I think that the writers wished for a physically attractive villain, to contrast with the very unattractive Snoke.




*Spoiler*: __ 








Same style as Anakin, just a different color of hair.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am certain that that was deliberate, to draw parallels between them, but I dearly wish that Kylo Ren had a better personality than did Anakin.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

For the record, I don't mean to take away from George Lucas's accomplishments. My hatred towards the prequels does not outweigh my love of the original- and I mean the first movie, not the entire trilogy. Lucas directed a great movie and his contributions to the final product are invaluable. But if I were to sum up my opinions on him as a director, I would say he was very imaginative and a pioneer of new technologies, but he can't seem to separate the good ideas from the bad ones. Back when he made "Star Wars", he seemed more willing to take advice...or maybe I'm wrong and his cast and crew simply weren't afraid to give their opinions because Lucas had yet to reach titan status. They functioned as his idea editors, whether it was the editors removing the superfluous stuff, keeping the tone in line or the actors telling him that the dialogue wasn't working. 

But in the 1990's, Lucas  either had too much of an ego or everyone assumed he was nothing short of a genius, so lines that "That's so Wizard" somehow made it to the screen and the comedic relief was taken too far and the tone was so broken that it made it difficult to make an emotional connection to anything. Part of the reason Spielberg and Lucas worked so well is Spielberg could filter out Lucas's bad ideas, while utilizing his good ones. "Crystal Skull" might be the exception, but if you watch the interviews, Spielberg seemed to be indifferent to that project and admitted he just did what Lucas wanted.

In a way, I wish Disney brought on Lucas as a producer or something, where they can get a director like J.J Abrams to function as an idea editor for him. 



Fang said:


> TFA's soundtrack was utterly forgettable with its original music and TLJ is barely a set up from it.



I actually agree with this, as honestly, I thought "Rogue One" has been the only movie in the new wave to have a score that stands out. But this might be because John Williams is...85? I think? I wouldn't be surprised if he just gave some input to a ghost composer who did the bulk of the arrangement, as Williams is too old to be doing this full time. He's also given cinema so many iconic scores that he has to have reached his limit.


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## Fang (Jan 14, 2018)

It has nothing to do with John William's age. You can find tons of old interviews in magazines, online articles, Lucas's own commentary and William's as well. Lucas was painstakingly heavily involved in the compositions of the music and tracks used in the OT and PT, which is why they are so varied and dynamic and carry the sort of unique flavor and weight in the films when they show for major scenes, events, etc...

There is none of that in the ST for VII or VIII because Williams does not have the same kind of working relationship with JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson like he did with Lucas and Irvin.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I dearly wish that Kylo Ren had a better personality than did Anakin.


He does tho...


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## Fang (Jan 14, 2018)

>Ren
>better personality than Anakin

Nah.

Still laughin how a big part of his character arc in TFA is the obsession over a lightsaber that Anakin owned and made and he completely ignores it in TLJ. He's literally Anakin lite 2.0 except with all the issues and non of the pros.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 14, 2018)

Fang said:


> Still laughin how a big part of his character arc in TFA is the obsession over a lightsaber that Anakin owned and made and he completely ignores it in TLJ.



You're ignoring the fact that "letting the past die" would include letting go of his obsession with Vader, and so would have no longer cared for his lightsaber as much.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

Fang said:


> It has nothing to do with John William's age. You can find tons of old interviews in magazines, online articles, Lucas's own commentary and William's as well. Lucas was painstakingly heavily involved in the compositions of the music and tracks used in the OT and PT, which is why they are so varied and dynamic and carry the sort of unique flavor and weight in the films when they show for major scenes, events, etc...
> 
> There is none of that in the ST for VII or VIII because Williams does not have the same kind of working relationship with JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson like he did with Lucas and Irvin.



I'm not disputing that. A directors job is to be involved in every aspect of filmmaking. But let's not forget that Williams spent the majority of the 70's and 80's creating iconic theme after iconic theme ("Indiana Jones", Superman", "Jaws", "E.T", etc), while no one really remembers the score from George Lucas's first 2 movies ("American Graffiti" and...the other one that I never can remember the name of). Of course, there's no denying that chemistry between Lucas and Williams, just as there's no denying the chemistry between Lucas and Spielberg or Spielberg and Williams. 

It's easy to say he doesn't have that chemistry with Abrams or Johnson, but once again, he's like 85 years old. How many filmmakers retain the same level of ingenuity at that age? 

Of course, this would be put to the test if they got Spielberg to do Episode 9 like so many people wanted, but nope...more J.J Abrams...It feels weird that they got the guy who scored most of J.J's films to do "Rogue One", one of the few non-Abrams Star Wars flicks of this new wave.


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## THEALMIGHTYGUY (Jan 14, 2018)

Just saw the movie last night. the humor ,especially in the beginning was corny and bad, the random romance between fin and the Asian chick was also bad and unnecessary and still managed to blindside me even though I knew it was coming. And the Leia scene actually made me lol when I saw it. But I didn't hate as much as I thought I would and it did have some cool moments so that's something.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> He does tho...



Both of them are whiny and temperamental, not at all the type of characters that you would expect to be galaxy-dominating evil overlords.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 14, 2018)

THEALMIGHTYGUY said:


> Just saw the movie last night. the humor ,especially in the beginning was corny and bad, the random romance between fin and the Asian chick was also bad and unnecessary and still managed to blindside me even though I knew it was coming. And the Leia scene actually made me lol when I saw it. But I didn't hate as much as I thought I would and it did have some cool moments so that's something.



I think the romance was entirely one-sided on Rose's part, given how elated she was when she met Finn the first time.  

If you are referring to the scene between Poe and Hux for the humor, there's actually an in-joke: Armitage Hux is an illegitimate child of his father and a kitchen worker.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Both of them are whiny and temperamental, not at all the type of characters that you would expect to be galaxy-dominating evil overlords.


That's exactly who you'd expect to be galaxy dominating overlords if real life is any indication.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> If you are referring to the scene between Poe and Hux for the humor, there's actually an in-joke: Armitage Hux is an illegitimate child of his father and a kitchen worker.



Has that been confirmed? I heard a rumor somewhere that Hux is the son of governor Pryce from the _Rebels_ television series, but that seems to be quite far-fetched.



~Gesy~ said:


> That's exactly who you'd expect to be galaxy dominating overlords if real life is any indication.



I would expect a galaxy-dominating evil overlord to be someone who was calm, rational, and exceptionally skilled at manipulating other people into doing their bidding, such as Palpatine, who is practically the poster child for the evil overlord trope. There is no way that someone such as Anakin (before receiving his suit) or Kylo Ren could have the temperament to lead other people; people may fear them, but they do not respect them. Hopefully, Kylo can do what Anakin did and actually become mature and "take a level in badass," to invoke another trope.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I would expect a galaxy-dominating evil overlord to be someone who was calm, rational, and exceptionally skilled at manipulating other people into doing their bidding, such as Palpatine, who is practically the poster child for the evil overlord trope. There is no way that someone such as Anakin (before receiving his suit) or Kylo Ren could have the temperament to lead other people; people may fear them, but they do not respect them. Hopefully, Kylo can do what Anakin did and actually become mature and "take a level in badass," to invoke another trope.



I think he was taking a shot at Trump, lol.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I think he was taking a shot at Trump, lol.



I know that he was, and I was tempted to mentioned Trump by name, as well, but I decided that this thread is not for discussing real-world politics.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

I'd like an evil overlord who isn't just a carbon copy of Palpatine- who is just too...definitive in the role. Hell, he was so cool that he's one of the few parts I can say I really liked about the prequels. There's just something amazing about him cackling during his fight with Yoda.

Snoke was beginning to win me over in TLJ, but I don't know. If he had lived through Episode 9, he probably would've just been a Palpatine clone.


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## Glued (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I know that he was, and I was tempted to mentioned Trump by name, as well, but I decided that this thread is not for discussing real-world politics.


Pfft...too late for that, Newt Gunray (Gingrich) already came to the scene back in The Phantom Menace.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Snoke was beginning to win me over in TLJ, but I don't know. If he had lived through Episode 9, he probably would've just been a Palpatine clone.



He already was a clear copy of Palpatine, with his physical deformities and how he spoke during the scene with Rey and Kylo in his throne room. Obviously, he forgot (or never knew) that Darth Vader turned against Palpatine, or he would have taken care to ensure that Kylo did not do the same to him.



Ben Grimm said:


> Pfft...too late for that, Newt Gunray (Gingrich) already came to the scene back in The Phantom Menace.



You do not seriously think that any characters in this series are modeled after real people, do you?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> He already was a clear copy of Palpatine, with his physical deformities and how he spoke during the scene with Rey and Kylo in his throne room. Obviously, he forgot (or never knew) that Darth Vader turned against Palpatine, or he would have taken care to ensure that Kylo did not do the same to him.
> 
> 
> 
> You do not seriously think that any characters in this series are modeled after real people, do you?



I heard somewhere that the novelization of TFA acknowledged Vader's redemption by having Snoke warn Kylo Ren that Vader was seduced by the light, which would've given some weight to Ren's decision to Kill Han Solo. Snoke was a copy, but he was still pretty captivating in his limited screen-time. His death though is what separated the characterizations, which is probably why I liked it.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 14, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Has that been confirmed? I heard a rumor somewhere that Hux is the son of governor Pryce from the _Rebels_ television series, but that seems to be quite far-fetched.



This was confirmed in the _Aftermath _book trilogy.  Armitage Hux was also one of the first child soldiers of the First Order, and had Phasma kill his father later in life to claim his position in the First Order.


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## Glued (Jan 15, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> He already was a clear copy of Palpatine, with his physical deformities and how he spoke during the scene with Rey and Kylo in his throne room. Obviously, he forgot (or never knew) that Darth Vader turned against Palpatine, or he would have taken care to ensure that Kylo did not do the same to him.
> 
> 
> 
> You do not seriously think that any characters in this series are modeled after real people, do you?



Umm...yeah, Nute Gunray was partially based on Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich.



Chris Taylor. How Star Wars Conquered the Universe: The Past, Present Future of a Multibillion Dollar Franchise. New York, New York, USA: Basic Books, 2014-2015. Pp. 300-301.

""It was perhaps no co-incidence, then, that Lucas started writing about a "Trade Federation," aided and emboldened by corrupt politicians, embroiled in some sort of dispute over the taxing of trade to the outlying star systems. We never learn what the dispute is about -- whether the Trade Federation was pro- or anti-tax. But what we know is that the name of the leader of the Trade Federation -- never actually spoken in the movie, but noted in the script from the start -- was Nute Gunray. By 1997, when the GOP Senate leader was Trent Lott, Lucas named the Trade Federation's representative in the Galactic Senate: Lott Dodd. We're a long way from the subtlety of his [George Lucas's] [North] Vietnam metaphor here."

Star Wars has always had messages, but the OT honestly did it low. 

Storm Troopers from the originals never did sieg heil.
And Ewoks in no way shape nor form look like Vietcong.

It was very subtle in the OT.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 15, 2018)

Question, 

Wasn't C3PO's arm red in TFA? Yet it's back to its normal gold color in TLJ, right? Did they ever address that?


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## Glued (Jan 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Question,
> 
> Wasn't C3PO's arm red in TFA? Yet it's back to its normal gold color in TLJ, right? Did they ever address that?



They will either put it in a book or comic, or they will brush it under the rug.

Either way it was an error.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Question,
> 
> Wasn't C3PO's arm red in TFA? Yet it's back to its normal gold color in TLJ, right? *Did they ever address that?*


they never adress anything that happened 5 minutes ago; that would require effort...

this movie is my nightmare

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 15, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> They will either put it in a book or comic, or they will brush it under the rug.
> 
> Either way it was an error.



....Why was his arm red in TFA anyway?


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## Glued (Jan 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> ....Why was his arm red in TFA anyway?


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Question,
> 
> Wasn't C3PO's arm red in TFA? Yet it's back to its normal gold color in TLJ, right? Did they ever address that?



When Rey and Chewbacca are leaving on the Millennium Falcon at the end of "The Force Awakens", C-3PO has his golden arm plating back.  In other words, the gold plating was put back on before Rey and Chewie left on the Millennium Falcon. 


So to translate Raging Boner's response: "I won't check anything that requires less than a minute of searching; that takes effort."


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## dr_shadow (Jan 15, 2018)

The movie's been out one month now! Box office time!

*The Force Awakens (4 weeks)*

Domestic: $825 million
Overseas: $921 million
---
TOTAL: $1.746 billion

*The Last Jedi (4 weeks)*

Domestic: $595 million (72%)
Overseas: $673 million (73%)
---
TOTAL: $1.268 billion (72%)​

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fang (Jan 15, 2018)

Disney is in a panic, didn't even hit $1.3 billion and Forbes is already predicating the Solo (more like SOYLO) movie will do much worse and that's out in barely 5 months time with zero marketing for it.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 15, 2018)

Fang said:


> Disney is in a panic, didn't even hit $1.3 billion and Forbes is already predicating the Solo (more like SOYLO) movie will do much worse and that's out in barely 5 months time with zero marketing for it.



Not To Mention China Hates It? They really going to give RJ Three Movies when he is making zilch in China.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 15, 2018)

*Star Wars franchise, adjusted for inflation (domestic only)
*
1. A New Hope ($1.274 billion)
2. The Force Awakens ($965 million)

3. The Phantom Menace ($757 million)
4. Return of the Jedi ($723 million)
5. The Empire Strikes Back ($704 million)

*6. The Last Jedi ($595 million)*
7. Revenge of the Sith ($529 million)
8. Attack of the Clones ($464 million)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 15, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> *Star Wars franchise, adjusted for inflation (domestic only)
> *
> 1. A New Hope ($1.274 billion)
> 2. The Force Awakens ($965 million)
> ...



Hmm so basically it has no chance of catching ESB....

How would you fix Star Wars for China, @mr_shadow?


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## dr_shadow (Jan 15, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> How would you fix Star Wars for China, @mr_shadow?



I'm not sure it's "fixable" without radically altering the tone and premise, which you can't do when you're eight movies in (or two movies into the trilogy).

At this point I'd say finish Episode IX as intended without worrying too much about what the Chinese think, then let the series rest 10 years or so, and then make Episodes X-XII with more of a thought towards the Chinese audience from the get-go.

IIRC George Lucas was a big fan of Japanese cinema (e.g. samurai films) and incorporated a lot of that spirit into the original trilogy. Next time around the writers will want to sit down and watch some representative_ Chinese _films before they even sit down to make the first outline of the script. Because the things that are turn-offs to the Chinese aren't things you can fix with token Asian characters or embarrassing marketing campaigns.


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## Skaddix (Jan 16, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> I'm not sure it's "fixable" without radically altering the tone and premise, which you can't do when you're eight movies in (or two movies into the trilogy).
> 
> At this point I'd say finish Episode IX as intended without worrying too much about what the Chinese think, then let the series rest 10 years or so, and then make Episodes X-XII with more of a thought towards the Chinese audience from the get-go.
> 
> IIRC George Lucas was a big fan of Japanese cinema (e.g. samurai films) and incorporated a lot of that spirit into the original trilogy. Next time around the writers will want to sit down and watch some representative_ Chinese _films before they even sit down to make the first outline of the script. Because the things that are turn-offs to the Chinese aren't things you can fix with token Asian characters or embarrassing marketing campaigns.



I suppose they should start with fucking basics or the easy options....Hotter Actors and Better Fucking Fights. The Force Users in this new trilogy just don't measure up to Wuxia or fucking Anime for the younger gen.

I mean sheesh Adam and Daisy suck at swordfighting which is more acceptable for Daisy then it is for Adam. Meanwhile Christe and Boyega the two with actual training ride the bench so RJ can suck off Driver.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 16, 2018)

72% of TFA aint bad,  given that had 10 years hype


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

pls @Weiss, let's not pretend we weren't all expecting this to hit around or over 1,5B. a "TFA had 10 years of hype behind it" excuse would've been more acceptable with a 500M difference but with 700/800M? not so much.

1,2/3 billion is still a shit ton but let's not pretend our dear disney overlords aren't extremely disappointed.


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

meh, maybe the movie can still crawl it's way to 1,4B and save at least some face.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 16, 2018)

Need that Marvel vs Star Wars vs Alien vs Predator four-way crossover.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 16, 2018)

TFA was also in theaters like 6 months or something 

atm after 4 weeks the difference is ~480 Mil

so not bad  for a movie thats supposed to be worse than TPM and AotC


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

Weiss said:


> TFA was also in theaters like 6 months or something
> 
> atm after 4 weeks the difference is ~480 Mil
> 
> so not bad  for a movie thats supposed to be worse than TPM and AotC


do you honestly believe this movie will make an additional 350-400M in the next couple of months?? otherwise what you're saying now is meaningless. the end result is not going to be a ~480M difference.

the best case scenario here is this movie caps off at 1,4B and we'll end with a 650-ish billion dollar difference. best case. i still think it'll die off in the 1,3 billions.


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

meh at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. the drop is enough for disney execs to prolly be disappointed but not enough to actually do much about it. lucasfilms isn't gonna get it's shit together, RJ is still gonna get his trilogy, we're still gonna get yearly SW crap forced down our throats and the han solo shit is still gonna happen. sigh.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 16, 2018)

Because American audiences are crazy and watch movies multiple times, even with tickets costing, what, over $10?

In the rest of the world we usually only go to a movie once, which is why they usually only have runs of like one month. By that time anyone who gives a damn will have seen it.


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Because American audiences are crazy and watch movies multiple times, even with tickets costing, what, over $10?
> 
> In the rest of the world we usually only go to a movie once, which is why they usually only have runs of like one month. By that time anyone who gives a damn will have seen it.


yeah that shit is so weird. never understood that, honestly didn't even know that was a thing untill i went on the internet.


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## Fang (Jan 16, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> pls @Weiss, let's not pretend we weren't all expecting this to hit around or over 1,5B. a "TFA had 10 years of hype behind it" excuse would've been more acceptable with a 500M difference but with 700/800M? not so much.
> 
> 1,2/3 billion is still a shit ton but let's not pretend our dear disney overlords aren't extremely disappointed.



Considering they spent at least $500+ million on budget for the production and marketing, it doing fully less than 3/4ths of what TFA did is pretty bad. Remember Disney's initial prediction was a minimum of a very "conservative" $1.9 billion.


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## Fang (Jan 16, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Because American audiences are crazy and watch movies multiple times, even with tickets costing, what, over $10?
> 
> In the rest of the world we usually only go to a movie once, which is why they usually only have runs of like one month. By that time anyone who gives a damn will have seen it.



The massive box office drop for TLJ was due to Americans and most Westerners not going back to the box office for it.


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## Indra (Jan 16, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> The movie's been out one month now! Box office time!
> 
> *The Force Awakens (4 weeks)*
> 
> ...


The only reason why it even reached this high, aside from carrying the Star Wars name, is because TFA was moderate enough to want a sequel. Whereas I feel like TLJ kind soured the movie for some people, who may or may not look forward to the 3rd film.

I can imagine a really BIG drop in numbers next time, unless they throw in some huge false marketing hype to get people excited again. 

"Hey look Luke isn't really dead forever!"


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## MartialHorror (Jan 16, 2018)

Fang said:


> Considering they spent at least $500+ million on budget for the production and marketing, it doing fully less than 3/4ths of what TFA did is pretty bad. Remember Disney's initial prediction was a minimum of a very "conservative" $1.9 billion.



I read somewhere that it needed $800,000,000 to break even, so it's kind of an awkward position where the film didn't fail enough to warrant serious changes, but also disappointed enough to where it's not considered a success. 

"Han Solo" will definitely be the make-or-break picture though, with the odds being stacked against it right now.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 16, 2018)

So I've recently read that Collin Trevorrow left/was fired from Episode 9 over Creative Differences in the script...Considering Disney at this point had seemingly left Rian Johnson do what he wanted (this before the movie came out and the backlash began...), does anyone buy this?

It seemed like Trevorrow "left" shortly after the failure of "The Book of Henry", so my assumption is that Disney lost faith in him. I also remember reports of attitude problems and the whole thing is reminiscent of the Josh Trank controversy. I'm not sad about Trevorrow leaving as I really did not care for "Jurassic World", but I still wish they'd go for someone other than Abrams. 

Interestingly, apparently Disney wanted Johnson to do Episode 9, but he wanted a break after "The Last Jedi". It will be interesting if Johnsons new trilogy still happens despite the backlash of TLJ, as Disney seems weirdly fond of him.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## reiatsuflow (Jan 16, 2018)

Mider T said:


> 72% of TFA aint bad, given that had 10 years hype



*ain't



Mider T said:


> 72% of TFA aint bad, given that had 10 years hype



*ain't

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jan 16, 2018)

My prediction, the Han Solo film will be about Han liberating a group of female twi'leks from the clutches of Jabba the Hutt. Majority of the film Han will talk in grunts and snorts. Emilia Clarke's character will actually be the main for the Han Solo film. Somehow the Twi'leks will make Han more human. Lando will yell, "Witness Me" as he does something heroic, but is knocked into coma as he saves a Twi'lek mother figure. Chewbacca will be a large villainous muscle man working for Jabba. Instead of dying will become an ally. There will also be space ship covered in spikes, lots of spikes. And some random dude will be shooting lasers out of an electric guitar.

In the end the film will probably be, "MEDIOCRE!"

Han Solo: Twi'lek Falcon


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 16, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> At this point I'd say finish Episode IX as intended without worrying too much about what the Chinese think, then let the series rest 10 years or so, and then make Episodes X-XII with more of a thought towards the Chinese audience from the get-go.



Given the Chinese only got the Original and Prequel Trilogy films very recently released in theatres, China would also lack the "nostalgia factor" you would see from other countries, wouldn't it?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 16, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> My prediction, the Han Solo film will be about Han liberating a group of female twi'leks from the clutches of Jabba the Hutt. Majority of the film Han will talk in grunts and snorts. Emilia Clarke's character will actually be the main for the Han Solo film. Somehow the Twi'leks will make Han more human. Lando will yell, "Witness Me" as he does something heroic, but is knocked into coma as he saves a Twi'lek mother figure. Chewbacca will be a large villainous muscle man working for Jabba. Instead of dying will become an ally. There will also be space ship covered in spikes, lots of spikes. And some random dude will be shooting lasers out of an electric guitar.
> 
> In the end the film will probably be, "MEDIOCRE!"
> 
> Han Solo: Twi'lek Falcon



This is Disney Star Wars, we are not allowed to have sexy females anymore. Unless a huge part of the movie is Han preaching (or getting preached) about females not being for sex, or something like that.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The problem I have with this statement is that Jar Jar wasn't just annoying, he kept disrupting the tone for the rest of the movie. You have this big final fight where the hero is slain, but it's surrounded with the goofy shenanigans of Jar Jar, whicvh ruins the intended emotion. Kylo Ren might not be a good primary villain, but he doesn't have a toxic effect on the scenes he's not in.



You can get over a tone being ruined, you can't get rid of Kylo, they placed him at the core of the story. He became a toxic character after he assumed command of the first order, by virtue that each time he appears after that, you get hammered in your head the fact that this clown is now Palpatine's successor.



MartialHorror said:


> Granted, I think it's kind of a pointless debate until we see what they do in the next episode, as they have to do something to make him as a credible final threat. J.J Abrams isn't Rian Johnson. He's not going to shake the status quota and formula demands that the stakes are completely against the heroes.



I was hoping that, but apparently Disney didn't learned and they still want Johnson to run Ep IX and just got Abrams because he declined. Given this, I wouldn't be surprised if the force Abrams to stick to Johnson's choices.

I have a mild hope that Abrams reverse Snoke's death or reveals he had a boss which will serve as the Episode IX antagonist. But it depends on how much he is constrained by Johnson's "Kylo is now big bad" narrative.



MartialHorror said:


> Unless they introduce someone new, they'll have to find a way to make Kylo Ren threatening. If they pull it off, then would you agree that vindicates this problem that you have with these movies?



I have 3 core problems with Episode 8, Kylo Ren, Snoke and the way they treated Luke. I have other problems with the movie (which includes the ones you so strongly disagree with me and call me a sexist for it), but those 3 are the factors that made me consider TLJ a bad movie. If you take those away, the other problems I have with this movie would not be enough to consider it bad.

So for IX to redeem VIII, they would have to: Give a compelling explanation on Snoke or bring him back, redeem Luke, (I have no idea how this is possible, considering the fact he spent decades as a grumpy old man will remain) and fix Kylo Ren either by making him a compelling villain or making him subordinate to a truly compelling villain (either a reborn Snoke or someone else)

These things happening are very, very unlikely. Assuming they only fix the Kylo part, it would solve a huge burden this movie has, but it would not be enough to make me consider it good.

Kylo as a compelling villain is a very tall order and I have doubts its doable. First of all his teen-like face, I just CAN'T take him seriously with that, so no idea how they are going to fix that unless they make him deformed or some shit. Then there is the fact that Kylo will have to be beaten in Episode IX, and no matter how strong he is in IX, it will still not take away the horrible record that Kylo would be the main villain who took loses in ALL the 3 movies he appeared. He can solo the entire Rebel fleet for all I care, in the end of the day, Rey will defeat him or have to match him and thus, will not take away the fact that the main villain of Star Wars was a guy who was always at worst the underdog to the heroine and at best her equal.

But assuming that by some miracle Episode IX solved all these issues, then yes, I have already said it before, I would change my opinion on Episode VIII.



MartialHorror said:


> I never minded Kylo Ren because I see him as a developing villain. In Episode 7, he's revealed to be nothing more than an insecure Vader wannabe. In Episode 8, he realizes that living in Vader's shadow is counter-productive. It is a step forward for his character development, but Episode 9 does need to complete his embracing of villainy. If only because J.J is a safe and reliable director, I think they'll pull it off...somehow.



They did a horrible job at building Kylo as the main villain. Its too late for that, I guess. Episode VIII was the time where a timeskip was needed not IX (yes IX needs it but only because its the only way to save the trilogy from Johnson's mess)

With Kylo Ren you are not building a Vader, you are bulding a Palpatine! And if you do that, you don't develop him like this. You don't have your future main villain beaten by the COMPLETELY untrained main heroine in the first movie! Can you imagine the mess it would had been to see Anakin defeat Palpatine in Episode I?

You don't introduce him as a crying angsty teen. You don't make him in the first movie he appears throw a literal tantrum with that terrible "Im going ballistic at this control panel with my lightsaber!" scene. You then don't go into the next movie and have him get his ass handed to him AGAIN by the superior villain, struggle against said villain's bodyguards and then have a Force match-up with the main heroine that the main heroine slightly wins, AGAIN.

You don't make him look like Emo Severus Snape. You don't end the second movie with him getting trolled by a hero and then immediatly throw a tantrum, AGAIN.



MartialHorror said:


> It would've been interesting though if Rey's allegiance wasn't so clearly defined at the end of Episode 8, as it would've been funny if she became the villain of Episode 9. It would even be funnier if Kylo Ren was forced to become her servant and Finn had to step up to be the main hero.



One of the main problems with these movies, is their utter wankery of their "HAHAHAHA! GOTCHA!" moments. Not only in the movies (episode 8 was basically a gotcha fest) but the trailers too.

The movie trailers imply a lot of things and then when the movie arrives, they turn it around and do something completely different.

TFA trailers implied Finn was going to be the protagonist (which would be leagues and bounds better than Rey), TLJ implied Rey would go to the darkside and in fact it was heavily theorized in the fandom that Rey and Kylo would do a switch, with Rey going dark and Kylo turning to the light. That would had been interesting.

But again "You think that would happen? Hahahaha! No, gotcha!"


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 16, 2018)

you're wrong Orochibuto

the trailers emphasized Luke Skywalker saying: _"This is not going to go the way you think!"
_
And it was the most honest trailer in all of creation...

because never in a million years would I have thought that such a piece of shit would ever make it past the cutting room floor; let alone the legion of executive overseers.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 16, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> You can get over a tone being ruined, you can't get rid of Kylo, they placed him at the core of the story. He became a toxic character after he assumed command of the first order, by virtue that each time he appears after that, you get hammered in your head the fact that this clown is now Palpatine's successor.



You can't, actually. Tone reflects the intended emotion your supposed to feel. Imagine a horror movie where the visuals suggest we're supposed to be scared, but the actors are making quips that feel out of place. Or a raunchy comedy that suddenly introduces a depressing AIDS subplot...or every "Transformers" movie. A bi-polar tone sends mixed signals to your brain as to how you're supposed to react to the scene, so no...you cannot get over the tone being ruined- especially when the entirety of your movie is building up to this emotional climax that is undone by it. Furthermore, Kylo Ren has only been the 'toxic character' for the final...25? 30 minutes? You were already against the movie at that point, so Kylo Ren can't ruin what you already disliked.   





> I was hoping that, but apparently Disney didn't learned and they still want Johnson to run Ep IX and just got Abrams because he declined. Given this, I wouldn't be surprised if the force Abrams to stick to Johnson's choices.
> 
> I have a mild hope that Abrams reverse Snoke's death or reveals he had a boss which will serve as the Episode IX antagonist. But it depends on how much he is constrained by Johnson's "Kylo is now big bad" narrative.



I doubt Disney will force Abrams to do anything, as it sounds like they need him more than he needs them. Remember that Abrams is currently one of the most successful directors in Hollywood and if he didn't want to do the movie, he wouldn't do it. 



> Kylo as a compelling villain is a very tall order and I have doubts its doable. First of all his teen-like face, I just CAN'T take him seriously with that, so no idea how they are going to fix that unless they make him deformed or some shit. Then there is the fact that Kylo will have to be beaten in Episode IX, and no matter how strong he is in IX, it will still not take away the horrible record that Kylo would be the main villain who took loses in ALL the 3 movies he appeared. He can solo the entire Rebel fleet for all I care, in the end of the day, Rey will defeat him or have to match him and thus, will not take away the fact that the main villain of Star Wars was a guy who was always at worst the underdog to the heroine and at best her equal.



OK, fair enough, but I have a question. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but aren't you an apologist of the prequels? If you can't take his teen-like face seriously, did you have the same problem with Anakin? Also...even though this isn't a stance I personally support and I'll probably catch hell for it...but Vader kind of lost in the first 2 movies as well. The first one has him suffer the indignity of getting blasted into space. His defeat is pretty unceremonious. The 2nd is much more debatable, as he technically outclassed Luke, but he failed in his goals and Luke+company got away. Now I'm not saying Kylo is comparable to Vader and like I said, this isn't a stance I really support as much as I'm just trying to use it to understand you. Most movies will have the villains dominate most of the screen-time to stack the odds against our heroes, only to lose as the last moment. Vader was no exception, even if Kylo's defeats were more noticeable. 




> They did a horrible job at building Kylo as the main villain. Its too late for that, I guess. Episode VIII was the time where a timeskip was needed not IX (yes IX needs it but only because its the only way to save the trilogy from Johnson's mess)
> 
> With Kylo Ren you are not building a Vader, you are bulding a Palpatine! And if you do that, you don't develop him like this. You don't have your future main villain beaten by the COMPLETELY untrained main heroine in the first movie! Can you imagine the mess it would had been to see Anakin defeat Palpatine in Episode I?
> 
> ...



Why does Kylo Ren have to be a Vader or a Palpatine? Isn't it possible that the filmmakers are just trying to create their own villain? This is another line that makes me assume you just want the same ole shit. And Anakin defeating Palpatine in Episode 1 would've been so much worse because Anakin is like...9? I don't remember his age, but he's a little kid, whereas at least they established Rey as tough before getting involved with the jedi...and her enemy was wounded and in a fight with someone else...He wasn't introduced as an angsty teen. He was introduced slaughtering Max Von Sydow, using the force to do something we hadn't seen before (in the movies) and torturing Poe. 

I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, as the entire movie (Ep 8) continuously humiliated Kylo Ren over and over again, with his only 'redeeming' feature as a villain being part of his back-story (he did slaughter his fellow students, apparently). I just want to see his they finish his story before I pass judgement. I hope-

1) It's revealed Snoke was holding him back. His "Weakness has a use line" in regards to Hux might imply this, as it shows Snoke wants to surround himself with weak people whom he can more easily control. Otherwise, why the F@ck does Hux even have a job?

2) They make a point that Kylo Ren's past failures have helped him grow into a much better villain. Make him more dangerous BECAUSE he kept getting his ass handed to him. This is why I'm more open minded to him ascending as the final antagonist, just because I think it's interesting that he is being treated as a character who just happens to be the villain. He's growing and developing, just towards a darker path and you don't see that often. Anakin was kind of like this, but the problem with him was that they were stressing the 'fallen angel' aspect and Anakin was a whiny little shit. But isn't Kylo Ren a whiny little shit too? Yes, but the difference is Anakin was supposed to be likable at that point, but wasn't. Kylo Ren was never supposed to be likable. I actually hope that Kylo Ren doesn't reform like Vader did. 

So yeah, if I find Kylo Ren's story in Ep 9 to be unsatisfying, I'll concede that he was a failure as a villain. I just don't see the point of passing judgment on a developing character arc.


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## Skaddix (Jan 16, 2018)

You dont have to make Kylo, Vader or Palpatine, or Hux, Tarkin but you do have to make them competent and seem like legit threats


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## Glued (Jan 16, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> You dont have to make Kylo, Vader or Palpatine, or Hux, Tarkin but you do have to make them competent and seem like legit threats



If he kills Poe in an aerial dogfight, then that would give him cred.

I honestly don't see Poe surviving the series.


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## Glued (Jan 16, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Hmm so basically it has no chance of catching ESB....
> 
> How would you fix Star Wars for China, @mr_shadow?



Transformers Age of Extinction was a smash in China. Warcraft did very well in China and I would go so far as to say China saved the Warcraft movie. Terminator also did well. Jurassic World got 150 million from China.

You want to know how to make Star Wars Popular in China.

You put Chewbacca on a rancor and you give the Rancor an electro battle axe and Chewbacca will get a bazooka.

Then you make them fight an even bigger monster with buzzsaws for hands.

And you add space orcs. That is correct, space orcs.

Then you add cyborgs and robots fighting space orcs.

Then you add Space dinosaurs battling Chewbacca and his pet Rancor.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 16, 2018)

'Space Orcs' does sound like the greatest idea in the history of mankind...

In fact, let's just add Space Orcs into everything..."Citizen Kane" would be the greatest movie of all time...multiplied by 5...if it had Space Orcs.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Jan 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> 'Space Orcs' does sound like the greatest idea in the history of mankind...
> 
> In fact, let's just add Space Orcs into everything..."Citizen Kane" would be the greatest movie of all time...multiplied by 5...if it had Space Orcs.


You should look up warhammer 40,000 they have Space Orkz

Imagine Green-skinned english soccer hooligans who do nothing but fight.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You can't, actually. Tone reflects the intended emotion your supposed to feel. Imagine a horror movie where the visuals suggest we're supposed to be scared, but the actors are making quips that feel out of place. Or a raunchy comedy that suddenly introduces a depressing AIDS subplot...or every "Transformers" movie. A bi-polar tone sends mixed signals to your brain as to how you're supposed to react to the scene, so no...you cannot get over the tone being ruined- especially when the entirety of your movie is building up to this emotional climax that is undone by it.



You got a point, but tone can be at least fixed more easily, it now seems nigh impossible to extract Kylo from his core place in the upcoming movies.

Basically even if TLJ had a horrible tone, it does not guarantee IX will do the same. However we do have a (reasonable) guarantee that we will be dealing with a Kylo Ren run empire in Episode IX and he will be a core character.



MartialHorror said:


> Furthermore, Kylo Ren has only been the 'toxic character' for the final...25? 30 minutes? You were already against the movie at that point, so Kylo Ren can't ruin what you already disliked.



Actually no, in fact when Kylo killed Snoke initially I was excited to see what would happen next (I was expecting either Snoke to come back, or have a bigger threat revealed, or something like that). It was when Kylo Ren made it clear he was replacing Snoke, that I began to turn against the movie.



MartialHorror said:


> OK, fair enough, but I have a question. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but aren't you an apologist of the prequels?



I don't know if that makes me an apoligist and I think you are likely confusing me with someone else, but I just don't think the prequels were AS bad as some people claim, I am not saying it was good, just that it wasn't THAT bad. The only one I loved from the prequels was RoTS.



MartialHorror said:


> If you can't take his teen-like face seriously, did you have the same problem with Anakin?



Not quite, even Anakin didn't looked as bad as Kylo Ren. Likely it helps that he didn't had the emo look on top of that and that he didn't looked like a potala fusion of Snape and Sasuke.

Also again, Anakin was well built to be a threat. From the first movie we were hammered with the fact he had the potential to be to be the greatest force user ever. He trained for more than a decade as a Jedi, he was a war betteran hero as shown in the clone wars series with multiple victories under his belt, he defeated Count Dooku.

More importantly, he never took Palpatine's place. I could see Kylo as Snoke's (or whoever the big villain was) right wing man as Vader was to the emperor, but I can't take Kylo seriously as the emperor.



MartialHorror said:


> Also...even though this isn't a stance I personally support and I'll probably catch hell for it...but Vader kind of lost in the first 2 movies as well. The first one has him suffer the indignity of getting blasted into space. His defeat is pretty unceremonious. The 2nd is much more debatable, as he technically outclassed Luke, but he failed in his goals and Luke+company got away. Now I'm not saying Kylo is comparable to Vader and like I said, this isn't a stance I really support as much as I'm just trying to use it to understand you. Most movies will have the villains dominate most of the screen-time to stack the odds against our heroes, only to lose as the last moment. Vader was no exception, even if Kylo's defeats were more noticeable.



Not comparable at all and you are grasping at straws to bring that analogy. Not suceeding in an objective =/= getting your ass kicked. Under that logic then Palpatine lost in RoTS too as he failed to completely exterminate the Jedi order which ultimately brought about his downfall about 20 years latter.

You can't compare a military defeat and not accomplishing a goal, with directly getting his ass kicked like Kylo did.




MartialHorror said:


> Why does Kylo Ren have to be a Vader or a Palpatine? Isn't it possible that the filmmakers are just trying to create their own villain? This is another line that makes me assume you just want the same ole shit.



Maybe because the movies directly compare him to Darth Vader? Maybe because he is made the equivalent of the galactic emperor?

If you don't want following villains to be compared to previous villains, don't compare him to previous villains. You can't have all Episode VII and part of Episode VIII pointing out that Kylo is seeking to become the next Vader and then ask "Why does he have to be Vader?" Well, because you compared him to Vader for 1 and a half movie! And no, going "You think he was going to be Vader? But nope, he is completely different! Gotcha!" does not fix it.

You can't have Snoke flatout saying the same lines as Palpatine, then have Kylo Ren replace him as the emperor of the next Galactic Empire without summoning comparisons to Palpatine and have people pointing out how horribly Kylo sucks compared to him.



MartialHorror said:


> And Anakin defeating Palpatine in Episode 1 would've been so much worse because Anakin is like...9? I don't remember his age, but he's a little kid, whereas at least they established Rey as tough before getting involved with the jedi...and her enemy was wounded and in a fight with someone else...He wasn't introduced as an angsty teen. He was introduced slaughtering Max Von Sydow, using the force to do something we hadn't seen before (in the movies) and torturing Poe.



I was making the point of how horrible it looks on the main villain of a trilogy to lose to the protagonist on their first film. Reasons doesn't matter, there is a thing called portrayal and aura and it is something that you must be careful when building up a character, specially the big bad.

If we saw Palpatine being beaten in Episode I by a teen Anakin (or if you will Qui-Gonn), it doesn't matter if he just came from an extremely taxing duel just after killing Darth Plagueis, his aura would still suffer and it would be difficult to lift him up for Episode II and specially Episode III.

Yes he was, he was introduced to us as an angsty teen in the first movie, its a movie, so the impressions of the character will be based on the overall movie. During that movie (Episode VII) we saw him as an angsty teen. The image of him throwing a temper tantrum and going ballistic on the control room was so bad, so fucking bad. Which makes me think that Abrams didn't intended to make him the main villain and this was a choice Johnson took by himself.



MartialHorror said:


> I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, as the entire movie (Ep 8) continuously humiliated Kylo Ren over and over again, with his only 'redeeming' feature as a villain being part of his back-story (he did slaughter his fellow students, apparently). I just want to see his they finish his story before I pass judgement. I hope-



That's nice. But you can't ask people to withold judgment of a movie that by itself is terrible and hope IX fix it. In part because a lot of people (myself included) left TFA hoping that many of the questions would be answered. We would be given a compelling explanation for why Rey is so strong, his parents were hinted as a huge mystery and we would get answers on Snoke.

Episode VIII killed all that, so excuse me for refusing to give VIII the same benefits when the movie went out of its way to trash many of the hopes VII gave us.



MartialHorror said:


> 1) It's revealed Snoke was holding him back. His "Weakness has a use line" in regards to Hux might imply this, as it shows Snoke wants to surround himself with weak people whom he can more easily control. Otherwise, why the F@ck does Hux even have a job?



Where? i never saw any implication that Snoke was gimping Kylo on purpose to lose to Rey, in fact he punished him for that.

About Hux, the irony is that even "weak" Hux is a more compelling villain that Kylo. As it is made clear in Ep 8 that Hux is the one that holds direct authority over the First Order war machine and that the FO only follows Kylo because Hux is scared into following Kylo. Fuck, in fact in the final scenes the troops didn't followed Kylo's orders
directly and only acted when Hux repeated them. Not to mention the very apparent hidden sneer and disrespect Hux has for Kylo as Supreme Leader.

If Palpatine had ordered all his troops to fire on Yoda, do you honestly see Tarkin or Krennic sarcastically ask him if it was enough firepower and then halt the assault without his orders? Absolutely not. They would follow his orders without hesitation and no one would dare to mock him for it.



MartialHorror said:


> 2) They make a point that Kylo Ren's past failures have helped him grow into a much better villain. Make him more dangerous BECAUSE he kept getting his ass handed to him.



And they made a terrible job at giving us that message. Kylo only looks weak. Even in his final scene we have him throwing yet another temper tantrum and screaming in frustration as Luke trolls him.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 16, 2018)

Fuck dude..how many characters does this guy need in order to make a point?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Jan 16, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Fuck dude..how many characters does this guy need in order to make a point?


Are you criticizing a debate for being _too _thorough?

Reactions: Old 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 16, 2018)

Yes

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Jan 16, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Are you criticizing a debate for being _too _thorough?


i agree with him this ain't the fucking cafe lmao.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 17, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> You got a point, but tone can be at least fixed more easily, it now seems nigh impossible to extract Kylo from his core place in the upcoming movies.
> 
> Basically even if TLJ had a horrible tone, it does not guarantee IX will do the same. However we do have a (reasonable) guarantee that we will be dealing with a Kylo Ren run empire in Episode IX and he will be a core character.



So you're issue is less with TLJ and more with this unfinished trilogy? Because even if Snoke lived, Kylo would've been a core character.



> Not quite, even Anakin didn't looked as bad as Kylo Ren. Likely it helps that he didn't had the emo look on top of that and that he didn't looked like a potala fusion of Snape and Sasuke.
> 
> Also again, Anakin was well built to be a threat. From the first movie we were hammered with the fact he had the potential to be to be the greatest force user ever. He trained for more than a decade as a Jedi, he was a war betteran hero as shown in the clone wars series with multiple victories under his belt, he defeated Count Dooku.
> 
> More importantly, he never took Palpatine's place. I could see Kylo as Snoke's (or whoever the big villain was) right wing man as Vader was to the emperor, but I can't take Kylo seriously as the emperor.



Anakin also had that emo look. He had that face where he looked like he was about to start crying throughout the entire "AotC" and "RotS". He even had similar hair styles. He also was prone to temper tantrums. He nearly kills his girlfriend from one and even throws one while being burned to near death.

The first movie tells us that Anakin has potential, the new trilogy has continuously done this with Kylo Ren ("I've only felt that raw strength once before...", "When I first saw you, I saw raw, untamed power!"). The 2nd prequel has Anakin lose to Dooku. It's not fair to use the Clone Wars as support, because Kylo Ren hasn't gotten his own TV show yet. He does defeat Dooku in the 3rd one, but he ultimately loses to Obi Wan. HOWEVER...to your credit, you bring up a good point that he never took Palpatine's place. You got me there.   



> Not comparable at all and you are grasping at straws to bring that analogy. Not suceeding in an objective =/= getting your ass kicked. Under that logic then Palpatine lost in RoTS too as he failed to completely exterminate the Jedi order which ultimately brought about his downfall about 20 years latter.
> 
> You can't compare a military defeat and not accomplishing a goal, with directly getting his ass kicked like Kylo did.



Palpatine DID lose in RotS because he did fail...that's sort of the entire point of the final shot of baby Luke and his Aunt and Uncle. Hope still exists. As I said though, I don't really support that comparison, but what counts as victory and failure can get somewhat blurred. For example, I actually think Vader getting unceremoniously blasted into space was more humiliating than Kylo Ren losing to Rey after his injuries. Sure, Vader himself wasn't "defeated", but watching his ship spinning around as it's flung in the distance is almost comical and it was kind of supposed to be. When Ren loses, it's supposed to be intense. 

With that said, the flaw in my argument is that TESB quickly rebuilt Vader's dignity and if anything, added to his menace and prestige, whereas TLJ didn't. 





> Maybe because the movies directly compare him to Darth Vader? Maybe because he is made the equivalent of the galactic emperor?
> 
> If you don't want following villains to be compared to previous villains, don't compare him to previous villains. You can't have all Episode VII and part of Episode VIII pointing out that Kylo is seeking to become the next Vader and then ask "Why does he have to be Vader?" Well, because you compared him to Vader for 1 and a half movie! And no, going "You think he was going to be Vader? But nope, he is completely different! Gotcha!" does not fix it.
> 
> You can't have Snoke flatout saying the same lines as Palpatine, then have Kylo Ren replace him as the emperor of the next Galactic Empire without summoning comparisons to Palpatine and have people pointing out how horribly Kylo sucks compared to him.



With the comparisons to Vader, it's just part of Kylo's arc and everyone calls him out for not being as cool as Vader in the movie. In episode 8, he chose to put all of that behind him, although it's unclear what form this will take in Episode 9. As for Snoke, he was an obvious Palpatine clone, which is why I'm kind of glad he died when he did. Kylo usurped his position, but once again, their rank is the only comparison to Palpatine. As soon as he took power, he didn't act anything like Vader or Palpatine. 



> I was making the point of how horrible it looks on the main villain of a trilogy to lose to the protagonist on their first film. Reasons doesn't matter, there is a thing called portrayal and aura and it is something that you must be careful when building up a character, specially the big bad.
> 
> If we saw Palpatine being beaten in Episode I by a teen Anakin (or if you will Qui-Gonn), it doesn't matter if he just came from an extremely taxing duel just after killing Darth Plagueis, his aura would still suffer and it would be difficult to lift him up for Episode II and specially Episode III.



The problem I have with the Palpatine comparisons is that he was the overarching villain of two trilogies. In the first movie, it's Vader who is the main villain and he suffered a very undignified defeat, but his aura was salvaged. The Emperor of the prequels couldn't suffer premature defeats because that would cheapen the events of the first trilogy...and he arguably still did when he lost to Mace Windu (albeit still in the 3rd film).



> Yes he was, he was introduced to us as an angsty teen in the first movie, its a movie, so the impressions of the character will be based on the overall movie. During that movie (Episode VII) we saw him as an angsty teen. The image of him throwing a temper tantrum and going ballistic on the control room was so bad, so fucking bad. Which makes me think that Abrams didn't intended to make him the main villain and this was a choice Johnson took by himself.



....Do you know what an angsty teen is?

Angst, in this context= melancholy, depressed. It's perpetual sulking...not lashing out in homicidal anger. That wasn't even his introduction either, as it came later in the movie. That was to show how unstable he was.  




> Where? i never saw any implication that Snoke was gimping Kylo on purpose to lose to Rey, in fact he punished him for that.
> 
> About Hux, the irony is that even "weak" Hux is a more compelling villain that Kylo. As it is made clear in Ep 8 that Hux is the one that holds direct authority over the First Order war machine and that the FO only follows Kylo because Hux is scared into following Kylo. Fuck, in fact in the final scenes the troops didn't followed Kylo's orders
> directly and only acted when Hux repeated them. Not to mention the very apparent hidden sneer and disrespect Hux has for Kylo as Supreme Leader.
> ...



I didn't say he wanted Kylo to lose to Rey. But he probably doesn't want Kylo to surpass him. Obviously this is just a theory based on one line, but it could explain why Kylo is struggling with achieving his full force potential. Also, the ending was deliberately designed to humiliate Kylo Ren, so if you think J.J Abrams didn't see him as the main villain...then the same might go for Johnson. In the beginning of the movie, Hux doesn't have the respect of his officers, one of whom snarkily dismisses his orders. Yet in the end, the first order does seem to respect Hux more than Kylo Ren, even though Hux hasn't done anything else. As that's the conclusion, I have to assume there is a reason for that and that will tie into episode 9. 

Admittedly, I have no idea what as Hux is unimpressive and Kylo Ren is hard to swallow as a final villain...but that's how they chose to end the movie, so we'll just have to see what comes next.


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## Magic (Jan 17, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 17, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You can't, actually. Tone reflects the intended emotion your supposed to feel. Imagine a horror movie where the visuals suggest we're supposed to be scared, but the actors are making quips that feel out of place.



Jigsaw?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 17, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Jigsaw?



That was pretty shitty...and I liked the "Saw" series.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 17, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> And you add space orcs. That is correct, space orcs.
> 
> Then you add cyborgs and robots fighting space orcs.



Then they should get going with making that Warhammer 40K battle, and make it a four-way brawl between the Necron, Orkz, Daemons and Imperium.


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## Glued (Jan 17, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Then they should get going with making that Warhammer 40K battle, and make it a four-way brawl between the Necron, Orkz, Daemons and Imperium.



The Star Wars equivalent of Daemons would be Devaronians or Zabraks. Darth Maul was a Zabrak from Dathomir.

General Grievous slaughtered the Night Sisters, he never laid a finger on the Night Brothers. (Cartoons)

Imagine an army of Force Sensitive Zabrak's with the visage of Darth Maul. That would be interesting.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 17, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The Star Wars equivalent of Daemons would be Devaronians or Zabraks. Darth Maul was a Zabrak from Dathomir.
> 
> General Grievous slaughtered the Night Sisters, he never laid a finger on the Night Brothers. (Cartoons)
> 
> Imagine an army of Force Sensitive Zabrak's with the visage of Darth Maul. That would be interesting.



It is true from the Legends canon that the Dathomirians were a hybrid species - half-Human, half-Zabrak?


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## Glued (Jan 17, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is true from the Legends canon that the Dathomirians were a hybrid species - half-Human, half-Zabrak?



Originally they were Amazon human females who ruled over their males because a female Jedi had come to them 300 years prior to Luke. This was revealed in the book, The Courtship of Princess Leia. And in the Ewok movie, Battle for Endor, there was a Dathomiri witch. Which is kind of funny considering Battle For Endor came before the Courtship of Princess Leia. So I'm guessing that Charal got retconned into being Dathomiri. But Charal looks 100% human.

Somewhere down the line the Dathomiri became hybrids with Zabraks, but I honestly don't know when and apparently Darth Maul is a son of Dathomir.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 17, 2018)

This film seemed to ruin any theory that Rey is related to anyone of importance, but it still did not explain why she heard Obi-Wan's voice when she touched Luke's lightsaber. Does anyone hope for that to be explained in the next film?

Also, on that subject, we still do not know how Maz obtained the ligthsaber, given that it fell into a ridiculously-deep pit.

I believe that it is safe to presume that Luke will appear as a force ghost in the next film; does anyone else here believe that?

If Snoke really was no one of importance, merely a red herring, how will the story explain how he went unnoticed for so long? This new trilogy is set thirty years after the original trilogy, but Snoke looked to be well into his seventies or beyond, so I find it to be very difficult to believe that Palpatine would not have detected a force user whose power rivaled his own.

Will Rey restore the Jedi order, fully and properly? The story has been teasing us with that idea for so long that it simpyl must happen, or countless fans will be disappointed.


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## Glued (Jan 17, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> This film seemed to ruin any theory that Rey is related to anyone of importance, but it still did not explain why she heard Obi-Wan's voice when she touched Luke's lightsaber. Does anyone hope for that to be explained in the next film?


Don't care, but it would be interesting if she was from Qui-Gon's bloodline. I'd love to see Liam Neesan as a Force Ghost.



> Also, on that subject, we still do not know how Maz obtained the ligthsaber, given that it fell into a ridiculously-deep pit.



Don't know, they'll probably explain in comics or books.



> I believe that it is safe to presume that Luke will appear as a force ghost in the next film; does anyone else here believe that?



Don't care.



> If Snoke really was no one of importance, merely a red herring, how will the story explain how he went unnoticed for so long? This new trilogy is set thirty years after the original trilogy, but Snoke looked to be well into his seventies or beyond, so I find it to be very difficult to believe that Palpatine would not have detected a force user whose power rivaled his own.



Snoke is irrelevant now, unless he ressurects somehow. But the fact that he has Hux leading his armies has made me lose all respect for him as a villain. His reasoning for putting Hux in such a position was also bullshit arrogance. 



> Will Rey restore the Jedi order, fully and properly? The story has been teasing us with that idea for so long that it simpyl must happen, or countless fans will be disappointed.



Don't care.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 18, 2018)

TLJ inspired me to read 

good book

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 18, 2018)

when something is so bad it can make a straight up rip off seem like  masterpiece...

I never thought it possible to utterly kill my interest or even slightest anticipation for the next SW film.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 18, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So you're issue is less with TLJ and more with this unfinished trilogy? Because even if Snoke lived, Kylo would've been a core character.



My issue is the impact TLJ had with this unfinished trilogy.

Yes, Kylo would had been a core character, he however would certaintly NOT be a core character as the main villain.



MartialHorror said:


> Anakin also had that emo look. He had that face where he looked like he was about to start crying throughout the entire "AotC" and "RotS". He even had similar hair styles. He also was prone to temper tantrums. He nearly kills his girlfriend from one and even throws one while being burned to near death.



As emo as Crylo? Nope, definitively, definitively NOT:





Anakin had a kinda emo-ish look (more like edgy) en Episode III, I can agree to that. But never as bad as Kylo and it was only in Episode III, in Episode I and II he didn't had that look. While Kylo has looked like that since the first film in which he appears.



MartialHorror said:


> The first movie tells us that Anakin has potential, the new trilogy has continuously done this with Kylo Ren ("I've only felt that raw strength once before...", "When I first saw you, I saw raw, untamed power!"). The 2nd prequel has Anakin lose to Dooku. It's not fair to use the Clone Wars as support, because Kylo Ren hasn't gotten his own TV show yet. He does defeat Dooku in the 3rd one, but he ultimately loses to Obi Wan. HOWEVER...to your credit, you bring up a good point that he never took Palpatine's place. You got me there.



That only tell us Kylo has strong potential, thats different from the potential of being THE most powerful being in The Force ever. An idea that was prepared since Episode I and ended in Episode III with high praises of Sidious himself even claiming Anakin would surpass him and treating Anakin with respect through all 3 films.

But anyway, its irrelevant, because the main difference and fuck-up is that Kylo took Snoke's place, something Anakin didn't.



MartialHorror said:


> Palpatine DID lose in RotS because he did fail...that's sort of the entire point of the final shot of baby Luke and his Aunt and Uncle. Hope still exists.



No, he didn't. It wasn't an absolute victory, but it was a huge victory. It certaintly was NOT a failure, as nearly extinguished the Jedi and ended up with him and the Sith ruling the galaxy.



MartialHorror said:


> As I said though, I don't really support that comparison, but what counts as victory and failure can get somewhat blurred. For example, I actually think Vader getting unceremoniously blasted into space was more humiliating than Kylo Ren losing to Rey after his injuries. Sure, Vader himself wasn't "defeated", but watching his ship spinning around as it's flung in the distance is almost comical and it was kind of supposed to be. When Ren loses, it's supposed to be intense.



Neither of us support that comparison then, so moving on.



MartialHorror said:


> With that said, the flaw in my argument is that TESB quickly rebuilt Vader's dignity and if anything, added to his menace and prestige, whereas TLJ didn't.



That too. Though I don't consider Vader's reputation to have been damaged and I haven't seen anyone else consider that Vader's reputation was damaged in Episode IV because of that.



MartialHorror said:


> With the comparisons to Vader, it's just part of Kylo's arc and everyone calls him out for not being as cool as Vader in the movie. In episode 8, he chose to put all of that behind him, although it's unclear what form this will take in Episode 9. As for Snoke, he was an obvious Palpatine clone, which is why I'm kind of glad he died when he did. Kylo usurped his position, but once again, their rank is the only comparison to Palpatine. As soon as he took power, he didn't act anything like Vader or Palpatine.



They are still comparisons, being part of his arc or not, they are still being made. You can't then be surprised that people compare him to Vader. And he still succeeded Palpatine's place, that is enough. If you don't want villains to be compared to Palpatine, stop creating galactic emperors. The only galactic emperor (outside of EU) we have seen has been Palpatine, so of course his successors are going to be compared to him.



MartialHorror said:


> The problem I have with the Palpatine comparisons is that he was the overarching villain of two trilogies. In the first movie, it's Vader who is the main villain and he suffered a very undignified defeat, but his aura was salvaged. The Emperor of the prequels couldn't suffer premature defeats because that would cheapen the events of the first trilogy...and he arguably still did when he lost to Mace Windu (albeit still in the 3rd film).



The reasons why is irrelevant, the point is Palpatine's aura was not fucked up and Kylo's was.




MartialHorror said:


> ....Do you know what an angsty teen is?
> 
> Angst, in this context= melancholy, depressed. It's perpetual sulking...not lashing out in homicidal anger. That wasn't even his introduction either, as it came later in the movie. That was to show how unstable he was.



He threw temper tantrums, he looked pathetic while doing so to the point it even was played like somewhat of a comedy scene, that is enough. Stop being so literal, you know perfectly well what I am talking about. His emo-like attitude and overall personality. Which is how "angsty teen" is also used in popular use.

I have seen you trying to pull this argument before multiple times "Well, actually this term doesn't mean literally that." You know perfectly well what I mean.

I bet you are also going to try to defend Kylo by saying "Well you can't call him a galactic emperor, because he isn't. This title doesn't exist anymore, he is the Supreme Leader, so you can't compare him to Palpatine." When you know exactly what I mean by calling him a Galactic Emperor.



MartialHorror said:


> I didn't say he wanted Kylo to lose to Rey. But he probably doesn't want Kylo to surpass him.



Proof for that? Palpatine had no problem with Anakin surpassing him, so I don't see why you think Snoke has one. Maybe Snoke doesn't think Kylo Ren can surpass him or maybe he does and just doesn't talks about it.



MartialHorror said:


> Obviously this is just a theory based on one line, but it could explain why Kylo is struggling with achieving his full force potential.



A basless theory.



MartialHorror said:


> Also, the ending was deliberately designed to humiliate Kylo Ren, so if you think J.J Abrams didn't see him as the main villain...then the same might go for Johnson. In the beginning of the movie, Hux doesn't have the respect of his officers, one of whom snarkily dismisses his orders. Yet in the end, the first order does seem to respect Hux more than Kylo Ren, even though Hux hasn't done anything else. As that's the conclusion, I have to assume there is a reason for that and that will tie into episode 9.
> 
> Admittedly, I have no idea what as Hux is unimpressive and Kylo Ren is hard to swallow as a final villain...but that's how they chose to end the movie, so we'll just have to see what comes next.



As you can see and have admitted, you do not see Kylo as harsh as I do. You may not agree with particular points I have about him, or may try to make me town down how terrible I portray him to be. We can keep this back and forth endlessly.

But at the end of the day, Kylo Ren is (so far) a terrible final villain and you know it. And it has a HUGE impact on the saga as a whole. Episode IX is supposed to end all 3 Star Wars trilogies full circle in a way that links from Episode I, passing through all the OT and ending in IX. It really, really soils it that someone as bad as Kylo is going to be the final confrontation to make that happen. Episode IX is going to either directly or indirectly affect every character that appeared in every Star Wars movie, from Anakin, to Obi-Wan, to Palpatine, to Mace Windu.

After IX, Star Wars as we know it is done, there will of course be further movies, possibly even direct sequels of the story of Rey, Kylo and Finn. But it will be a completely new story. IX will be the finale of the grand saga that started it all. And as such, you can see why the stakes are so high and why the implications TLJ has for IX are extremely important. (Though I have a very, VERY slight suspicion that they might not make IX the true ending and it might end in an Episode X as the true Grand Finale full circle for numerical completition and of course as an excuse to milk the cash cow one final time)


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## MartialHorror (Jan 18, 2018)

1) I think you accidentally posted two pictures of Kylo Ren...If it was deliberate, wouldn't a better way of making your point be showing Kylo's picture and Anakin's Episode 3 picture side by side?

2) The reason why Palpatine failed is he let Obi-Wan Kenobi, one of the most highly renowned Jedi at the time, survive in order to train Luke who would bring him down...Isn't that the entire point of the hope message? In "Rogue One", the heroes are all killed and the Death Star seems all powerful, but they failed to keep the plans from getting to the rebellion which leads to the destruction of the Death Star.

3) So any Galactic Emperor is going to be a Palpatine knock-off? If this is true, it's another reason why Star Wars is very creatively limited. Also, Vader didn't didn't take Palpatine's place. He killed him and died. Kylo taking Snoke's place is an entirely new concept for this lore.

4) No, I'm not going to defend Kylo for not calling himself a Galactic Emperor. In fact, I kind of wish he did as I think the changes in terminologies (like Rebellion turning into the Resistance) are superficial and unnecessary. But how else am I supposed to respond to you calling Kylo angsty? If the definition is wrong, the definition is wrong and the SJW thing was even more wrong.

5) I told you it was just a theory based on Snoke's "Weakness has a use" line, the fact that he seems to be putting incompetent people in charge of his 'empire' and the fact that the filmmakers have to do something to make Kylo Ren a galactic threat. It's not baseless, as I just gave you my base, but it doesn't mean I'm right either. It's a theory. Star Wars fans make those.

6) As for your final point, I agree that Kylo Ren is a horrible final villain right now. I didn't mind him taking that role in TLJ just because I saw the finale to be more about Luke coming to terms with what he did and not about overcoming the antagonist. But we still don't know what Episode 9 will do. For all we know, Palpatine will suddenly show up as a force ghost and be the big bad. Or Snoke will have faked his death. Or that broom kid will become the villain. Or the darkside of the force will materialize into a being. Or maybe Hux will betray Kylo Ren and become the new big bad, revealing that he was a master sith lord all this time. Or maybe the porgs will be the true masterminds behind the dark side. Would be stupid as f@ck, but who knows. Snoke still being around would also be problematic, as the 'story that brings all three trilogies to together' would be built around Snoke- a clone of Palpatine.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 18, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> 1) I think you accidentally posted two pictures of Kylo Ren...If it was deliberate, wouldn't a better way of making your point be showing Kylo's picture and Anakin's Episode 3 picture side by side?



Yes it was on purpose, you can compare it if you like. Kylo Ren still looks way much more emo and worse than Anakin. Also again, it doesn't help that only Episode III Anakin had an emoish look, while Kylo Ren has looked like that for his entire existence.



MartialHorror said:


> 2) The reason why Palpatine failed is he let Obi-Wan Kenobi, one of the most highly renowned Jedi at the time, survive in order to train Luke who would bring him down...Isn't that the entire point of the hope message? In "Rogue One", the heroes are all killed and the Death Star seems all powerful, but they failed to keep the plans from getting to the rebellion which leads to the destruction of the Death Star.



Doesn't change the fact that Episode III was a complete victory for him. If your standard for failing is going to be one, in which a guy gets to destroy 99% of his mortal enemies, turn the Chosen One to his side and rule the galaxy as a dictator, you are reaching.

How many people would honestly see Episode III and conclude "it was a failure for Palpatine"?

Sure, he didn't achieve ALL of his goals, that is still not a failure. If we use that standard, then no one in Star Wars has ever succeeded with the possible exception of Luke Skywalker in Episode VI.



MartialHorror said:


> 3) So any Galactic Emperor is going to be a Palpatine knock-off? If this is true, it's another reason why Star Wars is very creatively limited. Also, Vader didn't didn't take Palpatine's place. He killed him and died. Kylo taking Snoke's place is an entirely new concept for this lore.



Possibly, which is fine. You know, not every villain has to be a Galactic Emperor. It might make SW limited, but it doesn't make it less true. I mean, maybe if you had an entire line of Galactic Emperors you could eventually diminish the Palpatine comparisons. But when its the second successors, that just happened to succeed a previous emperor that flatout used Palpatine's lines, obviously the comparison is going to be there. When you have Kylo Ren as the final (as far as we know) villain and the previous final villain for 6 films was Palpatine, of course he is going to be compared.

Those are very big shoes to fill.



MartialHorror said:


> 4) No, I'm not going to defend Kylo for not calling himself a Galactic Emperor. In fact, I kind of wish he did as I think the changes in terminologies (like Rebellion turning into the Resistance) are superficial and unnecessary. But how else am I supposed to respond to you calling Kylo angsty? If the definition is wrong, the definition is wrong and the SJW thing was even more wrong.



Doesn't change the core of my arguments, you know exactly what I meant. And it actually is the correct term for angsty in popular use, even if not in dictionary definition.

Do you want to discuss all the SJW shitstorm again for 3 pages? I can, but then stop saying that I don't stop talking about the social justice aspects of Star Wars and that this is the reason I didn't liked TLJ, because you are the one that keeps bringing this up again and agan and again in every argument we have when we stop talking about this issue.



MartialHorror said:


> 5) I told you it was just a theory based on Snoke's "Weakness has a use" line, the fact that he seems to be putting incompetent people in charge of his 'empire' and the fact that the filmmakers have to do something to make Kylo Ren a galactic threat. It's not baseless, as I just gave you my base, but it doesn't mean I'm right either. It's a theory. Star Wars fans make those.



That doesn't remotely translates to Snoke somehow gimping Kylo's potential at all. Neither does it means that he kept Kylo Ren weaker on purpose.

You can make that theory, I can also make 10 other baseless theories too. Maybe Kylo is so pathetic that Snoke doesn't even think he can ever surpass him? Maybe his incompetence is the reason Snoke approached him? Maybe Luke didn't died and just teleported somewhere? Your guess and theories are as good as mine.



MartialHorror said:


> 6) As for your final point, I agree that Kylo Ren is a horrible final villain right now. I didn't mind him taking that role in TLJ just because I saw the finale to be more about Luke coming to terms with what he did and not about overcoming the antagonist. But we still don't know what Episode 9 will do. For all we know, Palpatine will suddenly show up as a force ghost and be the big bad. Or Snoke will have faked his death. Or that broom kid will become the villain. Or the darkside of the force will materialize into a being. Or maybe Hux will betray Kylo Ren and become the new big bad, revealing that he was a master sith lord all this time. Or maybe the porgs will be the true masterminds behind the dark side. Would be stupid as f@ck, but who knows. Snoke still being around would also be problematic, as the 'story that brings all three trilogies to together' would be built around Snoke- a clone of Palpatine.



Well, the casino planet kinda implied a power that has been benefitting from wars on both sides. So I have a very, VERY slight hope that a villain greater than Kylo that has been taking advantadge on the wars of all the Star Wars movie will reveal itself and be the final villain and will spare us from seeing Kylo in that role. This is actually the only reason why, thinking about it, I don't consider the casino scene ENTIRELY baseless, because if this is true, it might had secretly revealed to us the main antagonist.

But I don't high hopes in such a thing happening.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 18, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Don't care, but it would be interesting if she was from Qui-Gon's bloodline. I'd love to see Liam Neesan as a Force Ghost.



That would be interesting, but it would not explain why Rey heard _Obi-Wan's_ voice.



Ben Grimm said:


> Snoke is irrelevant now, unless he ressurects somehow. But the fact that he has Hux leading his armies has made me lose all respect for him as a villain. His reasoning for putting Hux in such a position was also bullshit arrogance.



Snoke being irrelevant does not explain how he looked older than Luke and Han when he should not have been; either the dark side caused him to age unnaturally fast, or the writers made a huge mistake.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 18, 2018)

1) lol, I think they're about equal on the 'emo look', but maybe the physical appearances are upstaged by Anakin continuously whining about Obi Wan not understanding him. It honestly seems to me though that they modeled Kylo's normal appearance after Anakin (from Ep 3) deliberately.

2) But does it matter that 99% of his enemies are dead, when that 1% is what does him in? Lucas once said that the force will find balance when the Sith were defeated. Episode 3 ends on a shot of the person who would cause Palpatine's fall...'Not succeeding in all your goals' is a surreal way of putting it when presumably all of your goals are related to...not...dying...

3) You are right that not every villain as to be a Galactic Emperor. But you've a lot of this argument emphasizing that Kylo Ren is not Palpatine. You used the ending of "TLJ" to show how if Palpatine was there, no one would've dared to defy him or act disrespectful. So "TLJ" made a point to show that Kylo Ren was no Palpatine, just as "TFA" made a point to show that he was no Vader. This is why I think it's all an intentional set-up to do something different. The ending explicitly shows that Kylo Ren does not have the respect of his men and they wouldn't include such a scene if they weren't going to do something with it. One thing that keeps getting forgotten about...unless the comics already covered this...is what happened to the other pupils who left with Kylo? They could do something with them.

4) I'll try to stop bringing up the SJW stuff...(althoughImakenopromises)...and yeah, I know people bastardize words like 'angsty'. But whereas you see 'angsty', I see 'unstable', which can be dangerous.

5) Your guesses are designed to be absurd though. Luke acknowledged Kylo's potential and his flashback honestly made him seem more dangerous than the current events, as he KO'ed Luke and slaughtered the other pupils. He also was shown to be competent up until the finale of TFA, so your guesses contradict what the movie is showing and telling...Mine, so for, has not. The whole point of me positing that theory though was to show how they could 'possibly' rebuild Kylo.

6) That's not a bad theory. Everyone seems to think Darth...Plagious? I can't remember the name, but many theorize that he's going to return in some form (admittedly, most of the theories surrounded him being Snoke, but...). It would be hilarious if it's revealed that the force itself is a conscious entity and requires good and evil to be in a never-ending struggle in order to survive. It favored the dark side to provoke conflict in the prequels and it favored the light to provoke conflict in the original trilogy. Fans would piss themselves in rage, but I would bask in their urine!

...Wait a minute...

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Glued (Jan 18, 2018)

I doubt Disney will explore Darth Plagueis and his quest for immortality.

Though they might bring Dathomiri Night Sisters in. Two of them were able to escape the rampage of General Grievous. Ventress escaped Grievous in the cartoon and Shelish is in a mobile game. Though they may just retcon all the cartoons.

With a competent Dathomiri witch, Rey might actually fight a villain worth some salt.

I would laugh if the re-canonized the Ewok movies and Charal somehow regained human form.

Are witches still popular in pop culture?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 18, 2018)

Ummmm....Not really. Can't remember the last really successful Witch movie. 

Ah, those Ewoks movies though...I'm going penetrated by nostalgia right though.


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 18, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I doubt Disney will explore Darth Plagueis and his quest for immortality.



Why do you believe that?


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## Glued (Jan 18, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Why do you believe that?



I doubt they have any interest in the prequels.

They want to avoid it like the...*plague.*


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## MartialHorror (Jan 18, 2018)

To be honest, at this point, it might be a little confusing. 

I had completely forgotten about Plagueis, General Greivous and company up until I revisited the prequels a year or two ago. I doubt the masses would be able to keep up if they built upon info established in the prequels.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 18, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I doubt they have any interest in the prequels.
> 
> They want to avoid it like the...*plague.*



Kind of a shame

Darth Plagueis was one of the better books in the old EU tbh

Granted, helps that Luceno was the writer *shrugs*

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Markerz (Jan 18, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Snoke being irrelevant does not explain how he looked older than Luke and Han when he should not have been; either the dark side caused him to age unnaturally fast, or the writers made a huge mistake.



I thought it was said somewhere in the film that snoke saw the rise and fall of the empire.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 18, 2018)

Markerz said:


> I thought it was said somewhere in the film that snoke saw the rise and fall of the empire.



The lore about him outlines that fact.  He was originally the leader of those strange purple-robed aliens seen in his throne room, the ones who mapped the hyperspace paths of the Unknown Region the Imperial remnants used when they became the First Order.


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## Extravlad (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm shocked by the amount of people who actually defend Rey's character on the controversy of her being a mary sue and having illogical powers.
Especially on the Star Wars subreddit where a quick research was enough to get that the general consensus is that she's a fantastic lead, a very well written character and if you don't agree you're just sexist;

As for the movie and the ST being shit I blame the Prequels haters who through their whining got us where we are now getting a fucking copy/pasta of a new hope and TLJ.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Ennoea (Jan 19, 2018)

I like Daisy Ridley. She is quite charismatic and has good chemistry with everyone she's onscreen with in Last Jedi. However her character arc is lacking. They're just jumping to where they want the story to be but not willing to develop her character organically.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 19, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> I like Daisy Ridley. She is quite charismatic and has good chemistry with everyone she's onscreen with in Last Jedi. However her character arc is lacking. They're just jumping to where they want the story to be but not willing to develop her character organically.


pretty much every actor involved with this movie is too good for this movie

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jan 19, 2018)

A shame Ridley can't act and was phoning it in the whole time in TLJ. Then again I was distracted by the fat-faced female mongoloid Shrek Rose, so who knows.


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## Markerz (Jan 19, 2018)

Extravlad said:


> I'm shocked by the amount of people who actually defend Rey's character on the controversy of her being a mary sue and having illogical powers.
> Especially on the Star Wars subreddit where a quick research was enough to get that the general consensus is that she's a fantastic lead, a very well written character and if you don't agree you're just sexist;
> 
> As for the movie and the ST being shit I blame the Prequels haters who through their whining got us where we are now getting a fucking copy/pasta of a new hope and TLJ.



Dude look up Kylo Ren on that subreddit and all you'll see is people saying he's the best character in star wars and how he's Anakin done right.


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## Skaddix (Jan 19, 2018)

Markerz said:


> Dude look up Kylo Ren on that subreddit and all you'll see is people saying he's the best character in star wars and how he's Anakin done right.



They will dick ride any white male that is moderately attractive.


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## Glued (Jan 19, 2018)

Sasuke Uchiha, Illidan Stormrage, Kylo Ren...people love the Brooding Byronic anti hero.

They have since Lord Byron created the Homme Fatale. Maybe even before that.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Extravlad (Jan 20, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Sasuke Uchiha, Illidan Stormrage, Kylo Ren...people love the Brooding Byronic anti hero.


At least Illidan doesn't have a cringy nonsensical romance with a badly written female character

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 20, 2018)

Kylo is easily > PT Anakin


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## Extravlad (Jan 20, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Kylo is easily > PT Anakin


The PT was better than the OT.

Come at me.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 20, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 20, 2018)

he's taking him to account; holding him personally responsible for Ep IX

Reactions: Like 1


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## Saishin (Jan 20, 2018)

Just saw TLJ today

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Glued (Jan 20, 2018)

We went from this.





To this

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 20, 2018)

To be fair, Peter Cushing is like the most intense, captivating actor ever.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Glued (Jan 20, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> To be fair, Peter Cushing is like the most intense, captivating actor ever.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 20, 2018)

Krennic existed to have his big ball taken from him by Tarkin, and Hux is an example of a fanatic raised from childhood to hold a certain belief.

It'd get dull if all the villains were just the same.


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## Glued (Jan 20, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Krennic existed to have his big ball taken from him by Tarkin, and Hux is an example of a fanatic raised from childhood to hold a certain belief.
> 
> It'd get dull if all the villains were just the same.



You mean like Moff Jerjerrod and Nute Gunray? Jerjerrod only existed to be Vader choked.

The only hope now is the unknown dealer for the Resistance and the First Order.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 20, 2018)

Charles Dance would be f@cking awesome in Star Wars. But even then, I've been seeing him in more movies where he seems to be phoning it in. I don't think I've ever seen Peter Cushing phone it in...although admittedly, "Star Wars" might have been his equivalent of phoning it in as it's not like he did anything there that he hasn't done in his "Frankenstein" series.


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## Gordo solos (Jan 20, 2018)

Weiss said:


> serious btw
> 
> think Mouse would ever do it ?


*No*


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## sworder (Jan 21, 2018)

Just saw this last night

Better than the prequels, RIP Luke

Reactions: Like 1


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## THEALMIGHTYGUY (Jan 21, 2018)

Extravlad said:


> I'm shocked by the amount of people who actually defend Rey's character on the controversy of her being a mary sue and having illogical powers.
> Especially on the Star Wars subreddit where a quick research was enough to get that the general consensus is that she's a fantastic lead, a very well written character and if you don't agree you're just sexist;
> 
> As for the movie and the ST being shit I blame the Prequels haters who through their whining got us where we are now getting a fucking copy/pasta of a new hope and TLJ.


What about her do people like about her aside from the fact that she has a vagina and is strong? or is that the reason?


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## dr_shadow (Jan 21, 2018)

*China box office*

Week 1: $28 million
Week 2: $2 million *(-91%)*


Edit:

I think that's a typo on Boxofficemojo, because the_ total_ seems to have increased by $10 million in the second week. Still funny though.


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## Extravlad (Jan 21, 2018)

THEALMIGHTYGUY said:


> What about her do people like about her aside from the fact that she has a vagina and is strong? or is that the reason?


They like that she kicks evey male character's ass and that she's got an unresolved sexual tension with a broody dark haired emo

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 21, 2018)

Yes, I agree with that; Luke's change in personality from episode IV to episode VI is an excellent example of character development, but his change in personality from episode VI to episode VII was utter character derailment.



Ben Grimm said:


> We went from this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I liked Krennic, but Hux is a disgrace; how could the writers possibly think that the audience would prefer an emotionally-unstable spoiled brat over a dignified and elegant gentleman? Are they attempting to appeal to self-centered millennials who focus only on themselves?



MartialHorror said:


> To be fair, Peter Cushing is like the most intense, captivating actor ever.



I liked Cushing very much, but I personally believe that either Vincent Price or Christopher Lee was the most intense and captivating actor ever.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Saishin (Jan 21, 2018)

sworder said:


> Just saw this last night
> 
> Better than the prequels, RIP Luke


Sure,now lot of people will revaluate the prequels.Personally I like them,I don't find them so bad as many say,at least compare to the new trilogy they have an original and interesting story to tell.

My review on TLJ

Well overall it's not as bad as many criticized but yeah I give you that some moments were kinda embarrasing,I don't like the scene where Leia floated outer space then woke up and flew to the ship,also Snoke story was left out from the movie,no explanation of his background,a character badly used,Luke vs Kylo was also dissapointing just few lightsaber action among the two,those funny moments with the birds yeah cute but out of place somehow so I rate TLJ 6.5/10.

Oh and btw the battle of crait looks more cool in Battlefront 2 than in TLJ  



Ben Grimm said:


> We went from this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rogue One is the only good thing came from this new Star Wars saga signed by Disney

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## THEALMIGHTYGUY (Jan 21, 2018)

Saishin said:


> Sure,now lot of people will revaluate the prequels.Personally I like them,I don't find them so bad as many say,at least compare to the new trilogy they have an original and interesting story to tell.
> 
> My review on TLJ
> 
> ...


How did you feel about the rose and fin crap?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 21, 2018)

Rogue One was dope. Nothing special-- but good enough .

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Saishin (Jan 21, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> We went from this.
> 
> [LINKHL]247950[/LINKHL]
> 
> ...


Rogue One is the only good thing came from this new Star Wars saga signed by Disney 


THEALMIGHTYGUY said:


> How did you feel about the rose and fin crap?


Well I was indifferent towards their 'relationshiop'.I didn't find Rose annoying anyway.

About Phasma yeah they could gave her more screen time but she had to have the same role as Boba Fett thus just a fodder side character,really a waste character that could have been like Snoke used in a much better way,a shame.

The broom boy final scene was so disneyish,damn you Disney 

And btw I would have preferred Iden and Meeko from Battlefront 2 to be Rey's parents,that would have been awesome,instead they gave to her just two simple bad parents that have abbondoned her because they want to pay water? or alcohol? wtf


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## Glued (Jan 21, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I liked Krennic, but Hux is a disgrace; how could the writers possibly think that the audience would prefer an emotionally-unstable spoiled brat over a dignified and elegant gentleman? Are they attempting to appeal to self-centered millennials who focus only on themselves?
> .



Power wanking.

Star Wars has gone from a hero's journey to a power fantasy.

Hux needs to be incompetent to make Poe and Holdo look good.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Saishin (Jan 21, 2018)

These memes

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Saishin (Jan 21, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Power wanking.
> 
> Star Wars has gone from a hero's journey *to a power fantasy.*
> 
> Hux needs to be incompetent to make Poe and Holdo look good.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Saishin (Jan 21, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Yes, I agree with that; Luke's change in personality from episode IV to episode VI is an excellent example of character development, but his change in personality from episode VI to episode VII was utter character derailment.


Some would say that this change is because Luke had felt a dark moment,he wanted to kill Kylo and after that felt guilty,this shows that Luke is not just the classical hero without any doubts on his action etc etc,they would say that it gives a more deep charactarization.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 21, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> *China box office*
> 
> Week 1: $28 million
> Week 2: $2 million *(-91%)*
> ...



Didn't I hear China pulled it because the actors _weren't _*pretty enough?*


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## dr_shadow (Jan 21, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Didn't I hear China pulled it because the actors _weren't _*pretty enough?*



That was *one guy's* subjective analysis.

Anyway, Force Awakens and Rogue One both played for 5 weeks in China, which is pretty much the default run for foreign films. I'd assume Last Jedi gets the same, in which case we'll have the final Chinese tally by February 9.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 21, 2018)

I don't think TLJ is as divisive as the prequels...Actually, I take that back. I know people who like TLJ. I've yet to really meet anyone who thinks the prequels are good movies. At best, I hear "they aren't THAT bad". "The Phantom Menace" in particular continues to endure...as everyones favorite punching bag. 

So how many people here think "The Phantom Menace" is good? And if you do think it's good, when was the last time you watched it?


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## DemonDragonJ (Jan 21, 2018)

Saishin said:


> Some would say that this change is because Luke had felt a dark moment,he wanted to kill Kylo and after that felt guilty,this shows that Luke is not just the classical hero without any doubts on his action etc etc,they would say that it gives a more deep charactarization.



Luke contemplating killing another person in cold blood, however briefly, is a prime example of the derailment that I mentioned earlier; it is utterly inconsistent with how he was portrayed in the original trilogy and cannot be explained as normal character development. The writers of this film either forgot how he was portrayed in the original trilogy or simply did not care.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 21, 2018)

DemonDragonJ said:


> Luke contemplating killing another person in cold blood, however briefly, is a prime example of the derailment that I mentioned earlier; it is utterly inconsistent with how he was portrayed in the original trilogy and cannot be explained as normal character development. The writers of this film either forgot how he was portrayed in the original trilogy or simply did not care.



Yeah! I mean...ignoring the fact that he actually was about to kill Vader in a moment of rage in "Return of the Jedi" and was only stopped by the Emperor taunting him...But yeah, other than that one moment, Luke would never do that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah! I mean...ignoring the fact that he actually was about to kill Vader in a moment of rage in "Return of the Jedi" and was only stopped by the Emperor taunting him...But yeah, other than that one moment, Luke would never do that.



Don't forget abandoning his training as a Jedi because he saw Han and Leia in danger, _which is exactly what Vader wanted.  _If there are any flaws Luke has as a character, it is that he acts on instinct whenever he perceives there to be a danger to those he loves.  The kind of danger he saw from Ben when he saw the darkness in him, enough that it caused him to draw his lightsaber, as fleeting as the moment was.  

Remember, Luke did not want to fight Vader because he was his father and kept trying to talk to Vader rather than fight him.  But when Leia was threatened, Luke nearly killed Vader.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## MartialHorror (Jan 21, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Don't forget abandoning his training as a Jedi because he saw Han and Leia in danger, _which is exactly what Vader wanted.  _If there are any flaws Luke has as a character, it is that he acts on instinct whenever he perceives there to be a danger to those he loves.  The kind of danger he saw from Ben when he saw the darkness in him, enough that it caused him to draw his lightsaber, as fleeting as the moment was.
> 
> Remember, Luke did not want to fight Vader because he was his father and kept trying to talk to Vader rather than fight him.  But when Leia was threatened, Luke nearly killed Vader.



It's never clear what darkness he saw in Ben, but also remember that Ben reacted by Luke's perceived betrayal by...killing all of his other students. That is about as dark as you can get. Even Anakin struggled with killing the younger pupils, whereas Ben seemed to do it out of spite. If Luke felt that kind of evil, it's not that much of a stretch for him to instinctively react to eliminate it.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It's never clear what darkness he saw in Ben, but also remember that Ben reacted by Luke's perceived betrayal by...killing all of his other students. That is about as dark as you can get. Even Anakin struggled with killing the younger pupils, whereas Ben seemed to do it out of spite.



You can hear thoughts of the death and destruction when Luke looked into Ben's mind.  

And while Anakin is still controversial in the Prequels, he still expressed regret for his actions after he inadvertently helped Palpatine kill Mace Windu, you can still see moments of regret and struggle in "Revenge of the Sith", which builds on the fact that while Darth Vader is a monster and a villain, he is so because he feels there's no hope left for himself (as evidenced with "Return of the Jedi).

On the other hand, as you said, Kylo Ren killed most of Luke's students with little hesitation and took with him those he could turn.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I don't think TLJ is as divisive as the prequels...Actually, I take that back. I know people who like TLJ. I've yet to really meet anyone who thinks the prequels are good movies. At best, I hear "they aren't THAT bad". "The Phantom Menace" in particular continues to endure...as everyones favorite punching bag.
> 
> So how many people here think "The Phantom Menace" is good? And if you do think it's good, when was the last time you watched it?



I like Attack of the Clones, actually. I think Obi-Wan's detective story is fun, and Anakin gets a ton of character development.


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## Extravlad (Jan 22, 2018)

I like the Prequels better than the OT and I don't give a damn if they're objectively better movies or not.

The Prequels tells a far more interesting story to me, the era of the Republic, actual Jedi, packed action, severals beautiful planets showcased, actual world building, severals charismatic characters (Maul,Dooku,Windu) with OT ones getting actual development (Obi-Wan,Yoda,Palpatine).

Don't give a darn if the dialogue is cringy or the acting is bad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2018)

you cant sweep all 3 prequels under the same rug


RotS >>>>>>>>>> AotC > TPM


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2018)

PT/RotS Sidious > OT Sidious


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2018)

Weiss said:


> TLJ inspired me to read
> 
> good book


@ChaosTheory123  are there Mouse canon good books (books/stories, not comics) that feature Yoda ? 

or more Sidious (_Lords of the Sith_ has Sidious and I assume _Darth Plagueis_ too)


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 22, 2018)

Weiss said:


> @ChaosTheory123  are there Mouse canon good books (books/stories, not comics) that feature Yoda ?
> 
> or more Sidious (_Lords of the Sith_ has Sidious and I assume _Darth Plagueis_ too)



Not yet, though the Star Wars comics have Yoda take on a living mountain and win.


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## Glued (Jan 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Not yet, though the Star Wars comics have Yoda take on a living mountain and win.



Wait that actually is a Marvel Villain.

Spragg the Living Hill
The Mountain that walks like a man.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 22, 2018)

Weiss said:


> you cant sweep all 3 prequels under the same rug
> 
> 
> RotS >>>>>>>>>> AotC > TPM



Yes I can. I can whore out my reviews of those movies if you like, bwahahahaha!

Nah, I think "Revenge of the Sith" is OK. "Attack of the Clones"....well, it isn't "The Phantom Menace", but it's pretty weak. The main problem is that it's built around a love story, where the protagonist acts less like a romantic lead and more like a sexual predator.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Not yet


so no Disney books at all with Yoda ? 

what about with Sidious ? (aside from _Lords of the Sith_)


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## Gaiash (Jan 23, 2018)

I found all three prequels enjoyable in my rewatch last year. I wouldn't call them good and agree with most criticisms about the movie (except people who complain about fight choreography and having CGI in general) but there's enough things I like in them that it was fun to revisit them after so many years.


Weiss said:


> PT/RotS Sidious > OT Sidious


He's the thing that makes Revenge of the Sith the best of the prequels for me. That and the prequel memes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 23, 2018)

*I AM THE SENATE*


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jan 23, 2018)

Weiss said:


> @ChaosTheory123  are there Mouse canon good books (books/stories, not comics) that feature Yoda ?
> 
> or more Sidious (_Lords of the Sith_ has Sidious and I assume _Darth Plagueis_ too)



Not yet as has already been noted

They’re bound to spring up eventually though

Yoda and Sidious are fairly iconic with plenty unexplored backstory to write up

They’re abundant in comics and TCW cartoon though for what that’s worth

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 23, 2018)

the prequels had some great ideas.
They just needed the oversight that the OT had; competent editors, non-"yes men" who'd be honest with Lucas and tell him *-NO-* on any ideas that shouldn't be included (ex. child Anakin - JarJar)
And of course _actual_ sets and practical effects instead of entirely done in early 2000's CG.

TLJ on the other hand? burn that entire movie and start over. Its only redeeming quality is that it is deceivingly beautiful.

It's _so damn_ pretty that anyone with a borderline IQ can be convinced that it's a good movie. It isn't.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Magic (Jan 23, 2018)

The concept artist who was in charge of darth maul's and padme's design is the best thing about the prequels. Guy is a genius.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Jan 24, 2018)

RemChu said:


> The concept artist who was in charge of darth maul's and padme's design is the best thing about the prequels. Guy is a genius.


And what did he even design in this ones exactly?

BTW the damage control of this movie has no presedence!


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## Magic (Jan 24, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> And what did he even design in this ones exactly?
> 
> BTW the damage control of this movie has no presedence!


I'm not sure if he worked in this film.  
I don't know much about the designers etc.

Aesthetically though this movie was good, just meh/shallow for me story wise.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 24, 2018)

Even though I liked all of these new Star Wars flicks, far more than any of the prequels, I have to admit that none of the creature/spaceship/suit designs have really stood out- something even the prequels could sometimes boast. Phasma's armor looks pretty cool, but it's just a new twist on an old classic. I guess Kylo's lightsaber is pretty neat, but once again...new twist on an old classic. That's once again sort of the problem. Star Wars is rooted in too much nostalgia.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 25, 2018)

My main problem with the prequels is the many "wait, what?!" answers to things that were already implied in the original trilogy. When you set out to make a prequel series people expect that you will address all references to the past found in the original. So you get a laundry list that looks something like this:

-Before the Empire there was an Old Republic in which the Jedi were the guardians of peace & justice for 1000 generations (!) [later retconned to a more plausible 1000 _years_].

-Obi-Wan was trained as a Jedi by Yoda, who at almost 900 years old is almost as ancient as the Republic itself.

-Anakin started out as The Best Star-Pilot in the Galaxy before becoming the student  "General" Obi-Wan. The two fought together in a conflict called the Clone Wars. Anakin has a brother called Owen who disapproves of him going off to war with Obi-Wan.

-Anakin turns to the Dark Side and helps the Empire wipe out the Jedi. He may or may not have been prompted to do this by the Emperor. At some point he gets horribly disfigures and has large parts of his body replaced with cybernetics.

-Around the same time Anakin has (without his knowledge) fathered Luke and Leia by an unnamed woman. The children are spirited away before he can find out about them; Leia stays with her mother while Luke is given to be raised by Owen and Beru. The mother dies when Leia is very young; implicitly of a broken heart at the sight of what a monster Anakin has become.

There were the bullet points that Lucas kind of* had to hit* when writing the prequels. He has three movies totaling a combined 7 hours to say something about each of the above five plot milestones. And while nominally_ he does_, the pacing and answers is often strange. For example most of the answers to these questions are confined to Clones and Sith (leaving Phantom basically useless), and especially the last act of Sith. It's like they forgot about all the lose ends for the first hour of Sith and then had to jam-pack as many answers as possible into the last 20 minutes or so. Anything related to General Grievous is completely pointless, and if you cut out the whole lizard-riding plot of Obi-Wan chasing after him you would have freed up running time to tell the_ actual_ story of the movie with better pacing.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 25, 2018)

Grievous is awesome tho

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The World (Jan 25, 2018)

not in the movie

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Jan 25, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Grievous is awesome tho



I keep wondering if his voice is supposed to be an in-joke on what David Prowse's actual voice sounded like before they dubbed him with James Earl Jones.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 25, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> -Before the Empire there was an Old Republic in which the Jedi were the guardians of peace & justice for 1000 generations (!) [later retconned to a more plausible 1000 _years_].



it's far more likely that a civilization, in its heyday, that spans an entire galaxy would take _many many many_ millennia to form; many more millennia to reach its peak and still more to finally decline.

the 1000 year retcon is laughable

space is huge


unless, you're talking about the Jedi...which when you have members that can live for centuries still makes 1000 years seem awfully short. That would make Yoda practically a founder.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The World (Jan 25, 2018)

yea the jedaii order was founded 35000 years before Vader

1000 year retcon where yoda was born right at the start is stupid as hell


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## Mider T (Jan 25, 2018)

Confusingly worded.  The Sith became the modern Sith shortly before the birth of Yoda, which is probably where the Jedi got that rep.


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## Lucaniel (Jan 25, 2018)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gaiash (Jan 25, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Grievous is awesome tho


In the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars series.


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## Xhominid (Jan 26, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> There were the bullet points that Lucas kind of* had to hit* when writing the prequels. He has three movies totaling a combined 7 hours to say something about each of the above five plot milestones. And while nominally_ he does_, the pacing and answers is often strange. For example most of the answers to these questions are confined to Clones and Sith (leaving Phantom basically useless), and especially the last act of Sith. It's like they forgot about all the lose ends for the first hour of Sith and then had to jam-pack as many answers as possible into the last 20 minutes or so. Anything related to General Grievous is completely pointless, and if you cut out the whole lizard-riding plot of Obi-Wan chasing after him you would have freed up running time to tell the_ actual_ story of the movie with better pacing.



Honestly, I don't think the Phantom Menace is useless or worthless as a movie. Yeah it's easily the cringest of the Prequel Movies but it's easily one of the best in terms of world building and I think that's what Lucas REALLY wanted to hammer in before AotC and RotS.

He wanted to build up how peaceful the galaxy is before Palpatine starts working on his plan to completely upheaval it, that the Jedi are NOT the pure protectors Obi Wan built them as but more of just people with powers, capable of making mistakes and gambling themselves close to the dark side(I SERIOUSLY love Qui Gon Jinn for exactly that purpose) and how could the Galaxy fall under their watch.

Yeah it's not done well of course but honestly compared to the Prequels, I still find it the absolute best in actually telling you the state of the galaxy, which the OT only did in their scrawls.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Xhominid (Jan 26, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is you right now:
> 
> "I DON'T CARE IF THIS WAS CARRIE FISHER'S LAST MOVIE BEFORE SHE DIED!  I WANNA BURN IT ALL DOWN FOR MY FAN-FICTION IDEA!"
> 
> ...



Dude, there is quite a few movies in which their actors died...including even small films like Manos: The Hands of Fate and The Crow for Brandon Lee.

And I'm pretty sure there's some bad movies in there as well, I doubt people should suddenly be like "Don't shame this bad movie because this actor died", that would be a very, VERY, shitty thing to do and to try and pull Catalyst. You fucking know better than to try that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> Dude, there is quite a few movies in which their actors died...including even small films like Manos: The Hands of Fate and The Crow for Brandon Lee.
> 
> And I'm pretty sure there's some bad movies in there as well, I doubt people should suddenly be like "Don't shame this bad movie because this actor died", that would be a very, VERY, shitty thing to do and to try and pull Catalyst. You fucking know better than to try that.



I think you're taking his response too seriously, although he made the mistake of taking Raging Boner too seriously...and did you just imply "Manos: The Hands of Fate" is not a bad movie?

Because if you did...YOU HAVE THE BEST TASTES EVER! I have spent years trying to convince the world that "Manos: The Hands of Fate" is a thought provoking, innovative film about relationships, boasting such a finely tuned craftmanship that it's greatness goes full circle and makes the movie almost look like garbage. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



I haven't actually seen "Manos: The Hands of Fate", but...




Here is a bit of trivia for you all. Remember "Gone in 60 Seconds", with Nicolas Cage? That was a remake of a 1970's film of the same name. The star, a guy named H.B Halicki, started production on a sequel in 1989, but was killed in a stunt gone wrong. All of the filmed footage has never been released and might even be lost.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Xhominid (Jan 26, 2018)

I'll explain myself far better of why I think the PT has ultimately told the better story the OT.

Yes, I have watched the OT alot of times, around the same number of times as the PT. Yes, I know of the PT's horrible writing and characterizations of some of it's characters which due to Lucas made the actors underperform hard at times.
But, if you actually take that stuff out or replace it in the same way that the PT had people actually undercut Lucas or made some good ad-libs(like Harrison Ford did), then I honestly believe that the PT would have completely surpassed the OT, no fucking lie I'm making there.

As I stated before, the PT had all the world building and pretty much laid the foundations for what would ultimately occur in the OT, but it does it in ways that most people complained about but never really got(hell looking back on it now, the Mr. Plinkett reviews are actually TERRIBLE Analysis on the Prequel Trilogy, especially the Phantom Menace as a whole and to this day it disgusts me that I actually watched the whole 9-10 part review of the Phantom Menace looking back on it now/). I remember seeing people complain that Obi Wan didn't blow his stack when Qui Gon died like Luke did with Vader threatening Leia's life but then did people forget Obi Wan is a Jedi trained from as a child? Did people forget Luke was a Jedi who was trained as a late teenager-early adult!? Did people literally forget the very foundations the Phantom Menace itself was setting up despite it being said that fucking Anakin as a CHILD is too old to be trained as a Jedi effectively?

But I digress, Attack of the Clones also fitted in even further with the hubris of the Jedi(literally accepting an army no one knows who made for what purpose or why a Jedi Master who died who allow it to be commissioned and not question it whatsoever), the fact that Anakin himself was also just as spoken highly of just like the Jedi was and he was in fact, a DECONSTRUCTION of the Chosen One(he was told quite a few times that he was destined for greatness...you really think he's going to not act like hot shit?), and again the fact that it is not helped that the Jedi Council are not giving him his due at all, which leads him more and more into Palpatine's hands. 

And Revenge of the Sith is obviously all of that finally striking at once. The Jedi's Hubris has finally been their undoing(Mace Windu disrespecting Anakin and pretty much using him, like most of the Jedi Council, as a means to spy on Palpatine rather than on his own efforts, their Clone Army was actually Palpatine's from the start, the fact Mace Windu tried to KILL Palpatine rather than take him in like Anakin wanted made it easier for them to be seen as treason.) 

While the writing, acting and the overall characterization was bad, I really do believe that the PT really was a far better movie series once you take away all the shitty parts and really look at what Lucas was aiming for...which is a HELL of alot better than the Sequel Trilogy which I can't even fathom where the hell they are going with that(Seriously, everyone can use the Force? Where's that Syndrome clip...oh there it is:
Seriously, why don't people ever understand this.)

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 26, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is you right now:
> 
> "I DON'T CARE IF THIS WAS CARRIE FISHER'S LAST MOVIE BEFORE SHE DIED!  I WANNA BURN IT ALL DOWN FOR MY FAN-FICTION IDEA!"


I don't _have_ a fan fiction idea. And the characterization of Luke Skywalker, as laughable as it may be, was the least of my problems with this flick. The movie is terribly made on nearly every level aside from the visual spectacle. 

The script, partly written by Carrie Fisher, is shit. 
The pace and tone of this movie is shit. 
The character interactions are shit. 
The continuity from TFA (which takes place 5 minutes before) is shit. 
The discarding SW lore -established in previous films- for the purpose of this director to tell his fanfic is a shit idea...AND terribly executed.



> You'd throw aside a single movie and many people's hard work, and the last performance Carrie Fisher had as Leia while alive, just because you don't like the way something went?


feels before reals eh? how typical of the current youth and how...sad for humanity.



> Exactly how petty can you get?


on the internet? extremely; though it entirely depends on my mood at any given moment.

I mainly do it for fun. Though not so much anymore.


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## Xhominid (Jan 26, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Don't forget abandoning his training as a Jedi because he saw Han and Leia in danger, _which is exactly what Vader wanted.  _If there are any flaws Luke has as a character, it is that he acts on instinct whenever he perceives there to be a danger to those he loves.  The kind of danger he saw from Ben when he saw the darkness in him, enough that it caused him to draw his lightsaber, as fleeting as the moment was.
> 
> Remember, Luke did not want to fight Vader because he was his father and kept trying to talk to Vader rather than fight him.  But when Leia was threatened, Luke nearly killed Vader.



You know, I knew something was wrong with this explanation you gave but it slipped my mind...but then I remembered EXACTLY what was wrong:

Remember despite all of that, VADER STILL THREATENED LEIA! Ben Solo? All that happened was he was showing hints of the Dark Side and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep!

Again you are right, Luke has shown he isn't perfect and no one was pretending he was(remember, his biggest fuckup was due to him having Chronic Hero Syndrome that ultimately lost him his hand and nearly being destroyed by Vader), but trying to kill his own nephew in his sleep because he was showing signs of the Dark Side is absolutely ridiculous. I mean if he almost tried killing his fellow pupils, sure but really!?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ~VK~ (Jan 26, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is you right now:
> 
> "I DON'T CARE IF THIS WAS CARRIE FISHER'S LAST MOVIE BEFORE SHE DIED!  I WANNA BURN IT ALL DOWN FOR MY FAN-FICTION IDEA!"
> 
> ...


ugh


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## ~VK~ (Jan 26, 2018)

i legit can't stop rolling my eyes


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 26, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> And I'm pretty sure there's some bad movies in there as well, I doubt people should suddenly be like "Don't shame this bad movie because this actor died", that would be a very, VERY, shitty thing to do and to try and pull Catalyst. You fucking know better than to try that.



Yes, I did go too far with bringing up how it was Carrie Fisher's last performance, so I apologize for the offense you took to it.  

I just can't stand it when someone who is so petulant about something that they would say to just burn the entire thing and start over, with the implication that they feel it'd be no insult to toss an entire film that so many people put years of work into and that so many people enjoyed just to satisfy the complaints of a minority.  

For many, this is most likely hypocrisy due to how many might feel the exact same thing was done to the Expanded Universe, but the Expanded Universe _is still there, _and all of it is still there for use in the new canon, even if events pertaining to concepts and characters no longer are.  Because when I look at the Expanded Universe, while there are a myriad of interesting concepts present, setting up a Sequel Trilogy in that world would require being bound to the novel and comic stories too much (needing to explain who the Yuuzhan Vong are, needing to explain how Chewbacca died, needing to explain that two out of three of Han and Leia's children were dead, etc.).  

Setting up the Sequel Trilogy in a new continuity separate from the Expanded Universe negates those major problems of expositioning about a major off-screen war, and the death of one of the main characters off-screen, even as it comes with the problems shared by most sequels set many years after the Original (how did characters get from the end of the Original to the events of the Sequel).  

NOTE: As Leland Chee explained about his creative take on the transition, having Chewbacca alive for the Sequel Trilogy was an apparent reason for the reset button.

But  actually want to happen (yes, the numbers on those petitions are still growing), is driven by nothing more than personal distaste, not creative necessity.  They had already worked on and finished an initial script for Episode VIII _*before *_"The Force Awakens" ever hit theatres, and they've already been busy behind the scenes for Episode IX during the production of Episode VIII.  

To force a reset button on Episode VIII would require a delay or rework on _*everything past Episode VIII.*_  The work on Episode IX; the road-map they have planned out for the franchise beyond Episode IX; potentially all of that would be subjected to reworking if one decided to just throw aside Episode VIII and "remake it" entirely.  Does it sound excessive?  Yes, but it all depends on what they want redone, and how much has already been planned out based on the events of Episode VIII.

If they want Snoke alive, they'd have to rework Episode IX to have him be the main villain instead of Kylo Ren.  If they want Luke alive, they'd have to rewrite every scene where he's not a Force Ghost (no way in hell would they miss that opportunity).  If they want them to redo everything to the extent that it is an entirely new movie, that would require calling all the actors back in for work, all the animators, everyone who worked on the "Last Jedi", and telling them: "Sorry, but this group of fans was pissed off about the hard work we put in, so we have to listen to their demands and do everything over again."

How do they suppose all the people who worked on the film would feel about that? If I ever heard a bunch of fans demanding I rewrite one of my books because "I didn't write the way they wanted me to", like hell would I rewrite a story I put months to years of writing into to satisfy those protests.

Anyone who demands or says the entire movie should be thrown to the fires and be redone is essentially demanding they put _everything on hold_ and scrap anything already planned after Episode VIII, something which would affect the hundreds to thousands of people at work on the films, and those with works planned for after the films.



Xhominid said:


> You know, I knew something was wrong with this explanation you gave but it slipped my mind...but then I remembered EXACTLY what was wrong:
> 
> Remember despite all of that, VADER STILL THREATENED LEIA! Ben Solo? All that happened was he was showing hints of the Dark Side and Luke tried to kill him in his sleep!



And if the upcoming novelization reveals that what Luke saw included Ben killing his own father and his mother, and were the screams Luke heard when he looked in Ben's mind, what then?

Every time I see people criticize this point, I see it down-played as "it was just hints of the Dark Side", when anything seen by Luke would have to be enough to _terrify _him into acting on instinct for just a moment, not just "hints of darkness".  And in Ben's case, it was as such that the instant he felt Luke betrayed him, his _first reaction_ was to immediately try to kill Luke, and then he leveled the Temple and killed the other apprentices who would not join him.   Snoke was already in active contact with Ben's mind and had turned it to such an extent, which could not have been helped by learning the truth about his grandfather in the way it was revealed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gaiash (Jan 26, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> While the writing, acting and the overall characterization was bad, I really do believe that the PT really was a far better movie series once you take away all the shitty parts and really look at what Lucas was aiming for...which is a HELL of alot better than the Sequel Trilogy which I can't even fathom where the hell they are going with that


You're comparing being able to look back at a full trilogy with hindsight with an incomplete trilogy. Of course you don't know where they're going, the answer is the next movie.


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## Glued (Jan 26, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> And if the upcoming novelization reveals that what Luke saw included Ben killing his own father and his mother, and were the screams Luke heard when he looked in Ben's mind, what then?



Don't care, they should have showed it in the movie.

First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell.

The should have vividly shown what Luke saw at that moment or what he saw before.

Show me, don't tell me.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 26, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You're comparing being able to look back at a full trilogy with hindsight with an incomplete trilogy. Of course you don't know where they're going, the answer is the next movie.



This.  The same goes for comparing it to the entire Expanded Universe.  Every series of book in the Expanded Universe formed a complete story of its own, while the Prequel Trilogy was written with the need to get to the point where events are in the Original Trilogy, and explain how things got there.  What made it worth the while is how that telling subverted the image of the Old Republic and the Jedi Order built up in the Original Trilogy. 

In any other instance, it would have been too easy to substitute the Confederacy for a nascent Galactic Empire using a Clone Army, have the Jedi Order be the greatest bastion of defense for the Old Republic in the Clone Wars, only to have Vader's betrayal of the Jedi Order by Darth Vader be the impetus for the Old Republic to surrender to the Galactic Empire.

Instead, we had both deconstructed.  The Galactic Republic _*became *_the Empire on its own, and the Jedi were not perfect guardians of peace, but flawed and blinded by their own righteousness.  They fell because they believed _they could not fall_; they believed the Sith had been destroyed permanently when they were not; they fell because they did not trust Anakin, isolated him, and forced him to do things that compromised his judgement (one already clouded by his relationship with Palpatine).

In the case of the Sequel Trilogy, it is still a story-in-progress, and one of the interesting things about that is, like how it must have been for those who watched the Original Trilogy for the first time, _we do not yet know where things will conclude with Episode IX.  
_
And one of the things I like about the Sequel Trilogy so far is how it further built on the deconstructions of the Prequel Trilogy (the New Republic fell prey to the same flaws as the Old Republic; the death of the Emperor does not mean the permanent end of the Empire, or the Dark Side), as it aims for a reconstruction by the end.



Ben Grimm said:


> Don't care, they should have showed it in the movie.
> 
> First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell.
> 
> ...



"He would bring destruction, pain and death at the cost of everything I love..."

It does not take much to understand that Han and Leia would have been part of that cost.  Luke's fear also encompassed what Ben might do to them, too.


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## Gaiash (Jan 26, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The should have vividly shown what Luke saw at that moment or what he saw before.


No they shouldn't, Mark Hamill's facial expressions were all we needed. If they spent time telling us exactly what Luke saw instead of just showing us the way he reacted that would take away from the scene.


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## Glued (Jan 26, 2018)

Luke was built up over three films, you want to deconstruct him, you're going to have to show me how it was done.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Skaddix (Jan 26, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Luke was built up over three films, you want to deconstruct him, you're going to have to show me how it was done.



Pretty much I feel sorry for Luke fans who waited 3 Decades for this disrespect.


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## The Runner (Jan 26, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> No they shouldn't, Mark Hamill's facial expressions were all we needed. If they spent time telling us exactly what Luke saw instead of just showing us the way he reacted that would take away from the scene.


You have an established character with solid morals being tempted to betray what he stands for and murder his own blood...

And you're _not _going to show what it was? If your going to take a big step and try to do a 180, you're damn right you should be shown what justifies that behavior


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Bringing up a possible revelation in the novelization doesn't help the debate, as it's purely speculative, but Ben 'showing hints of the dark side' is equally speculative. Whatever Luke saw in him freaked him out to such an extent that he drew his lightsaber, so what he saw was obviously a lot more than 'hints'. The movie didn't spell it out for you, it let the event speak for itself...which maybe was a mistake, as Star Wars isn't known for nuance or subtlety. 

Also, pointing out that Luke didn't snap until Vader threatened Leia is also silly, as Luke knew exactly who he was dealing with. He had spent the movie seemingly having grown up, insisting that Vader has some good in him, but then completely loses faith in his Father when Vader...says he is going to do what he has been doing throughout the entire trilogy. This revealed that Luke hadn't really grown up after all and his development was actually robbed by Palpatine, as Luke didn't make the decision into not killing his Father on his own. A large part of me wants to say that this is bad writing, as Luke didn't really earn any character development. In fact, it was Vader who ultimately underwent character development, making Luke feel more like a passenger in his own story. Yet the only reason why I can't call it bad writing is how iconic Vader's redemption has become. I still think George Lucas intended it to be more bittersweet, as his original plans for Luke was to pull a "Searchers"-esque ending, implying Luke will have a lonely life, isolated from his friends- who get the true happy ending.

So that's why I think "TLJ" worked in terms of how Luke changed. He got the resolution to his development that "The Last Jedi" chose not to give him. It just had to put him through an even worse emotional ringer to get him there.

Edit: Also, I think think we'll see exactly what Luke saw in Episode 9, as they still need to deal with the other traitorous disciples. The fact that they joined Kylo suggests that Kylo was probably luring them to the dark side and he himself had already embraced it.


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## Gaiash (Jan 26, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Luke was built up over three films, you want to deconstruct him, you're going to have to show me how it was done.





Sir Jogga said:


> You have an established character with solid morals being tempted to betray what he stands for and murder his own blood...
> And you're _not _going to show what it was? If your going to take a big step and try to do a 180, you're damn right you should be shown what justifies that behavior


Or you could just look at his face and figure it out for yourself.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

"You have an established character with solid morals being tempted to betray what he stands for and murder his own blood..."- Has anyone seriously not watched "Return of the Jedi"? Even if you fall back on the "Vader threatened Leia" argument, watch the scene again. Luke was acting entirely upon rage fueled impulse. The movie itself doesn't justify his reaction, so why would anyone else? 

And unlike the case with Vader, Luke didn't strike or even try to kill Kylo. So if anything, Luke has learned more about restraint over the course of the timeskip.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## The Runner (Jan 26, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Or you could just look at his face and figure it out for yourself.


There are levels to this shit.

You take away the gravity and the empathy when you leave your audience with such a limited understanding of the situation


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## Glued (Jan 26, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Or you could just look at his face and figure it out for yourself.



I saw it, didn't believe, felt disjointed and contrived. 

Its going to take more than just facial expressions to convince me this is what happened to Luke.



Skaddix said:


> Pretty much I feel sorry for Luke fans who waited 3 Decades for this disrespect.



Thing is, I'm not even a huge fan of Luke, never was. My favorite character in Star Wars was Chewbacca.

But I understood Luke's purpose in the story and why Luke was important.


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## The Runner (Jan 26, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Has anyone seriously not watched "Return of the Jedi"? Even if you fall back on the "Vader threatened Leia" argument, watch the scene again. Luke was acting entirely upon rage fueled impulse. The movie itself doesn't justify his reaction, so why would anyone else?


Vader is space Hitler. He sliced Luke's hand.

Ben is a child

The fact that he was even willing to try to redeem Vader give more credence to the fact that Luke is very much forgiving about this shi.


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## Skaddix (Jan 26, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Vader is space Hitler. He sliced Luke's hand.
> 
> Ben is a child
> The fact that he was even willing to try to redeem Vader give more credence to the fact that Luke is very much forgiving about this shi.



Ben was 22 or 23 in the flashback...hardly a child but still no reason for Luke to think about cutting Ben down in his sleep...heck even fucking Jabba The Hut got a chance to surrender...not Like Luke went in swinging while Leia and Lando started shooting.


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## The Runner (Jan 26, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Ben was 22 or 23 in the flashback...hardly a child but still no reason for Luke to think about cutting Ben down in his sleep...heck even fucking Jabba The Hut got a chance to surrender...not Like Luke went in swinging while Leia and Lando started shooting.


Shit, yeah. Got confused there lol hinks

Like you said, point still stands


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## Gaiash (Jan 26, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Ben was 22 or 23 in the flashback...hardly a child but still no reason for Luke to think about cutting Ben down in his sleep...heck even fucking Jabba The Hut got a chance to surrender...not Like Luke went in swinging while Leia and Lando started shooting.


Ah yes Jabba the Hut, the guy Luke had a detailed plan for in place before even setting foot in the same room as him. That's definitely comparable to the sudden moment of weakness that he instantly regretted.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Vader is space Hitler. He sliced Luke's hand.
> 
> Ben is a child
> 
> The fact that he was even willing to try to redeem Vader give more credence to the fact that Luke is very much forgiving about this shi.



How old is Kylo supposed to be? Because in that flashback, he liked like grown up Adam Driver to me...

This "child" was already dabbling in some dark stuff and was powerful enough to bring the entire roof down, so unless there is a timeline to draw on, I would have to assume Ben was a young adult. Plus, as I keep saying, Luke did not try to kill him. Drawing his lightsaber was a reaction to whatever darkness he saw within him...and then it passed. 

To your credit though, your argument has been the most challenging. If there is a timeline and Kylo was supposed to be a young teenager, I'm not sure I can say anything until Episode 9 comes out and ideally, clears up everything. Because you are right that Vader was an established monster and Ben had yet to formally cross into that territory.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Even though the audio is crappy, I found a clip of Luke's recollections right before he draws the light saber and its made clear that he saw what Ben would become. 

"But then I looked inside and it was beyond anything I ever imagined."
*sounds of people screaming*
"Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death and the end of everything I love because of what he would become and for the briefest moment out of pure instinct I thought I could stop it...and it passed like a fleeting shadow."


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 26, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> How old is Kylo supposed to be? Because in that flashback, he liked like grown up Adam Driver to me...



Twenty-nine years old.  He was still training under Luke when it was revealed Vader was Leia's father in _Bloodline._


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## The Runner (Jan 26, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> This "child" was already dabbling in some dark stuff and was powerful enough to bring the entire roof down, so unless there is a timeline to draw on, I would have to assume Ben was a young adult. Plus, as I keep saying, Luke did not try to kill him. Drawing his lightsaber was a reaction to whatever darkness he saw within him...and then it passed.


I fucked up on that. I remembered he was young and instantly thought him up as a "child"

again. Let's not pretend he wasn't going to before he came to his senses. It was pretty clear what he was about to do.


Gaiash said:


> Ah yes Jabba the Hut, the guy Luke had a detailed plan for in place before even setting foot in the same room as him. That's definitely comparable to the sudden moment of weakness that he instantly regretted.


>you're at your uncles
>you sleep for a while
>you wake up
>you find your uncle at the edge of your bed

"It was a moment of weaknesses kiddo"


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> I fucked up on that. I remembered he was young and instantly thought him up as a "child"
> 
> again. Let's not pretend he wasn't going to before he came to his senses. It was pretty clear what he was about to do.
> 
> ...



But the point is...he came to his senses. 

lol and I just realized that the entire flashback angle was a reference to "Rashomon"...Derp. Glad to see Star Wars is still drawing inspiration from Japanese cinema.


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## Gaiash (Jan 26, 2018)

The point being that Luke didn't have a plan when he considered killing Kylo, it was a spur of the moment choice that he instantly regretted and had the consequence of causing the very thing he was attempting to prevent. Why would you bring up Luke having a plan so detailed it relied on R2 having a job in range to give him his new lightsaber right before he execution without said lightsaber being discovered as a comparison to that?

The time he almost killed Vader is the much better comparison because he acts without thinking and very quickly changes his mind before going too far.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 26, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> How old is Kylo supposed to be? Because in that flashback, he liked like grown up Adam Driver to me...



It's great casting that Adam Driver was born the same year Return of the Jedi came out (1983). He is_ exactly_ the right age for the character.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 26, 2018)

Hmmmm...if Anakin appears in Ep 9 as a force ghost, would you guys rather they get Hayden Christensen to reprise the role or re-cast...as I'm assuming the guy who originally played Vader (without the mask) is no longer with us. 

I don't know, as I didn't like the digital insertions of the OT, but I feel an Anakin appearance would be pointless if they just re-cast him. I don't mind Hayden as he has improved as an actor, but if force ghost Anakin looks younger than force ghost Luke...it would be very distracting. Maybe Vader shouldn't appear at all.


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## dr_shadow (Jan 26, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Hmmmm...if Anakin appears in Ep 9 as a force ghost, would you guys rather they get Hayden Christensen to reprise the role or re-cast...as I'm assuming the guy who originally played Vader (without the mask) is no longer with us.
> 
> I don't know, as I didn't like the digital insertions of the OT, but I feel an Anakin appearance would be pointless if they just re-cast him. I don't mind Hayden as he has improved as an actor, but if force ghost Anakin looks younger than force ghost Luke...it would be very distracting. Maybe Vader shouldn't appear at all.



Sebastian Shaw indeed died in 1994.

David Prowse is 82 and could potentially serve as a fanservice aged Anakin, finally getting to have his face appear on-screen in a Star Wars film. But IIRC he's kind of infirm and can't walk properly, so he'd probably have to sit on a log a'la Obi-Wan in Return of the Jedi. Then there's the problem of his working-class British accent. Since the prequels establish Anakin as having an American (?) accent they'd probably have to dub his voice again; which he was famously very insulted by during the making of the original trilogy.

So most likely they'll bring back Christiansen, which I don't really have a problem with.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 29, 2018)

I don't know if this is true, but a moderator from an Alt-right group has apparently taken credit for creating a bunch of bot accounts and rigging the RT audience score. 

He says: 
“Thanks to friends of mine who taught me a thing or two about Bot Accounts, I used them to create this audience score through Facebook accounts created that subsequently logged into Rotten Tomatoes who rigged this score and still keep it dropping. It astounds me how I successfully bring out the worst in all of you and turn all of you against Disney. The Anti-EU fans bought this on themselves and I did what had to be done.”

He does on to say some weird shit, ranging from "TLJ disrespecting the franchise's history" to "men should be reinstated as rulers of society" to Poe and Luke are in danger of becoming...gay? LOL. He also threatens to do the same to the next Avengers. 

It certainly would not surprise me and I do believe that our society loves dogpiling too much, so I wouldn't be surprised if people turned on TLJ because it was the bandwagon thing to do. Why would Star Wars be the victim of this? Franchise burnout? Disney burnout? 

But do I necessarily buy this story? I've witnessed the power of mass bot voting, as I remember the Oogiloves movie had an unnaturally high rating for a long time...and still has a rating that's far too good for the movie. So I guess it's not implausible, but I also do believe "TLJ" was a divisive movie, so the rating doesn't entirely surprise me. Even if these guys did launch a campaign to smear the film through RT audience score, I don't think it would've tanked the rating THAT much. 

Of course, these alt-right people are often so desperate for attention that I wouldn't be surprised if they just made this up to snag a few headlines. But now I almost want to ship Poe and Luke together, just to stir a hornets nest.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 29, 2018)

RT audience score is complete meaningless, just like metacritic user score has always been

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ~VK~ (Jan 29, 2018)

the people behind RT already confirmed there were no shenanigans going on. sorry bro i'm as disappointed as you are but i just don't think there is an alt right conspiracy going on. i know it's farfetched to say this but maybe a lot of people just genuinely didn't like the movie? 

nah now that i've said that out loud it sounds crazy. rabid alt right conspiracy influencing everyone's opinions it is.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 29, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> the people behind RT already confirmed there were no shenanigans going on. sorry bro i'm as disappointed as you are but i just don't think there is an alt right conspiracy going on. i know it's farfetched to say this but maybe a lot of people just genuinely didn't like the movie?
> 
> nah now that i've said that out loud it sounds crazy. rabid alt right conspiracy influencing everyone's opinions it is.



I wouldn't be disappointed either way, but I do think it's amusing, especially considering some of the spats I've had with some of the people here. While the RT people have dismissed the claims, it should be noted that they have no control over facebook, which can apparently be used to log into their site. The alleged bot general apparently created the bots on facebook and used them to tank the rating, so the RT crew might not be able to tell. Also, apparently a lot of the reviews came from facebook accounts that weren't created until around the films release, although that source even acknowledged this didn't automatically mean their bots. Also, there is a lot of "SJW"-like terms being thrown around in these reviews. 

Like I said, I don't know if it's true or not, but I do think it makes for an interesting story.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 29, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I don't know if this is true, but a moderator from an Alt-right group has apparently taken credit for creating a bunch of bot accounts and rigging the RT audience score.
> 
> He says:
> “Thanks to friends of mine who taught me a thing or two about Bot Accounts, I used them to create this audience score through Facebook accounts created that subsequently logged into Rotten Tomatoes who rigged this score and still keep it dropping. It astounds me how I successfully bring out the worst in all of you and turn all of you against Disney. The Anti-EU fans bought this on themselves and I did what had to be done.”
> ...


 this guy is full of shit; a lame attempt at reverse psychology. He's actually trying to say the movie is good by taking credit for making the score low.

what a sad cretin.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 29, 2018)

Can't argue with him being a sad cretin. If he did it or made it up, it's a sad waste of time.


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## Suigetsu (Jan 30, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> this guy is full of shit; a lame attempt at reverse psychology. He's actually trying to say the movie is good by taking credit for making the score low.
> 
> what a sad cretin.


Ryan it's a fucking hack cretin filled of smug smegma, and his GF it's a feminist hamster! When she turns on him he will probably go to the unjust watch route.
KK clearly has no fucking idea how to handle the SW brand nor how to make money out of it. Do you think kids will want rose toys? their mere existance is anathema to this planet. When SW was sold to disney it was game over, the folks at lucasfilm right now do NOT have an ounce of creativity. Heck, Kiri heart came out of nowhere after she wrote an episode of an obscure series from like 15 years ago or some shit. "I was hungry to create a self inset character" then why the fuck didnt she do so before?

Heads are gonna roll soon at disney.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zef (Jan 30, 2018)

January 29, 2018

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jan 30, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Ryan it's a fucking hack cretin filled of smug smegma, and his GF it's a feminist hamster! When she turns on him he will probably go to the unjust watch route.
> KK clearly has no fucking idea how to handle the SW brand nor how to make money out of it. Do you think kids will want rose toys? their mere existance is anathema to this planet. When SW was sold to disney it was game over, the folks at lucasfilm right now do NOT have an ounce of creativity. Heck, Kiri heart came out of nowhere after she wrote an episode of an obscure series from like 15 years ago or some shit. "I was hungry to create a self inset character" then why the fuck didnt she do so before?
> 
> Heads are gonna roll soon at disney.



They want males to buy their toys, this is what they need.


Rogue One, TFA and TLJ all had a huge lack of large monsters, except for that generic octopus.

Seriously, wtf, star wars without monsters?


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 30, 2018)

the Force is Female Ben Grimm

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Glued (Jan 30, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> That argument doesn't make sense. If this is a lie it makes more sense that an alt-right mod is trying to brag about making the audience score reflect their views on the film to try and impact the future of the franchise than an alt-right mod is trying to make the movie look good by placing the blame for the score on their group.



Not really, many years ago I wrote a piece of fanfiction. I later deleted my work.

Sometime after, somebody posted my work and tried to take credit for it. I let it slide and didn't say anything.

People try to steal credit for lots of shit they themselves didn't do.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 30, 2018)

Terrorists do that kind of shit all the time too, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the boasting is BS, just as it's not out of the realm of possibility that it's not- because people do that shit all the time too. Who ultimately knows.


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## Suigetsu (Jan 30, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> They want males to buy their toys, this is what they need.


But how can you expect to sell, when your merchandise it's basically the same 40 year old toy but with different color and a fat ugly annoying Rose Tico? K.K. it's so clueless she thinks people need to self insert in order to enjoy a story or that they need the character to be just like them in terms of ethnicity. They are closet racists.


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## Glued (Jan 30, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> But how can you expect to sell, when your merchandise it's basically the same 40 year old toy but with different color and a fat ugly annoying Rose Tico? K.K. it's so clueless she thinks people need to self insert in order to enjoy a story or that they need the character to be just like them in terms of ethnicity. They are closet racists.



Do what the prequels did.

Make new bad guys, new ships, new bounty hunters and new monsters.


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## Suigetsu (Jan 30, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Do what the prequels did.
> 
> Make new bad guys, new ships, new bounty hunters and new monsters.


Pretty much cool looking stuff, plus Natalie Portman in her prime was eye candy. Even her Phantom Menace self was aesthetically pleasing.
In here what is supposed to look cool? A disney trooper in chrome? that's it?!
FRANCHISE RIP!


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## Glued (Jan 30, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Pretty much cool looking stuff, plus Natalie Portman in her prime was eye candy. Even her Phantom Menace self was aesthetically pleasing.
> In here what is supposed to look cool? A disney trooper in chrome? that's it?!
> FRANCHISE RIP!



You don't realize the purpose of Porgs? They actually sold well.

...oh god, those discount Furbies.


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## Gaiash (Jan 30, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not really, many years ago I wrote a piece of fanfiction. I later deleted my work.
> 
> Sometime after, somebody posted my work and tried to take credit for it. I let it slide and didn't say anything.
> 
> People try to steal credit for lots of shit they themselves didn't do.


The taking credit for something they didn't do isn't the part I was arguing against, I even provided a more believable scenario of someone doing just that. The thing I was arguing against was the motive.


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## Glued (Jan 30, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The taking credit for something they didn't do isn't the part I was arguing against, I even provided a more believable scenario of someone doing just that. The thing I was arguing against was the motive.



Trolls want to show that they have power whatever it may be.

If he is lying that he caused it when he didn't, then its just a way to show he has power to do something or that his group has power.

The equivalent of posturing or intimidation rather doing actual damage.


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## RAGING BONER (Jan 30, 2018)

whatever the motive may be the outcome remains the same; by claiming credit for all those down votes he's saying that he's largely responsible for the negative view this movie has in much of the audiences eyes.

personally, i don't give a shit about critic or audience scores. When i'm served cinematic bullshit, I call it like i see it. 
For example, many of my brain dead comrades and family members are low born casuals who think this is a fun, well made movie - I spit on them for their shit tastes__but I understand them_ as they are a product of degenerate culture.

now, this alt-right scum is devaluing the many Star Wars AND cinema fans who went to voice their legitimate concerns on this tomato site. It seems to me he is saying that this movie would be considered -well made and good- if it weren't for people like him botting up the score.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Feb 1, 2018)

I see it's crossed $1.3 billion, if barely.

Only $700 million left to catch Force Awakens.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Feb 1, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> I see it's crossed $1.3 billion, if barely.
> 
> Only $700 million left to catch Force Awakens.



Please TLJ + SOLO will be lucky to hit TFA numbers....

Raises the question over under on SOLO making 700 Mil?

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Indra (Feb 1, 2018)

I think Star Wars films are going to decrease, if anything.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aeternus (Feb 1, 2018)

I think Solo will do well enough, just nowhere near TFA and TLJ.


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## Glued (Feb 1, 2018)

Solo will be the Maleficent of Star Wars.

It will do to Han Solo what the Prequels did to Vader.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 1, 2018)

What do you mean the Maleficent of Star Wars? I get the "It will do to Han what the prequels did to Vader" comparison, but haven't figured out the Maleficent one. 

The movie will probably gross a lot, but I have to imagine the budget is so crazy big that it will have to gross a billion to break even.


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## Glued (Feb 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> What do you mean the Maleficent of Star Wars? I get the "It will do to Han what the prequels did to Vader" comparison, but haven't figured out the Maleficent one.
> 
> The movie will probably gross a lot, but I have to imagine the budget is so crazy big that it will have to gross a billion to break even.



Humanize him, less badass.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Humanize him, less badass.



Oh. 

Meh, was Han Solo really so bad-ass to the point of not being humanized? I always saw the character as someone who thought he was more bad-ass than he really was...just as I always assumed Lando was who Han always envisioned himself as (before the betrayal). Either way, I don't mind that, as you'd have to dig deeper into Han if he's going to be the protagonist. Of course, I don't really think there needs to be a movie where Han is the protagonist, so...

But at least with Han, he isn't like Vader, who was compelling because he was shrouded in mystery. Even if young Han is a whiny little bitch, I don't think it would do damage to the image of Han that the prequels arguably did to Vader, as I could totally see Han being a whiny little bitch in his youth.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 1, 2018)

So apparently the same people who claimed responsibility for nuking the Star Wars RT audience score is trying to bring down Black Panther too...


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## Glued (Feb 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Oh.
> 
> Meh, was Han Solo really so bad-ass to the point of not being humanized? I always saw the character as someone who thought he was more bad-ass than he really was...just as I always assumed Lando was who Han always envisioned himself as (before the betrayal). Either way, I don't mind that, as you'd have to dig deeper into Han if he's going to be the protagonist. Of course, I don't really think there needs to be a movie where Han is the protagonist, so...
> 
> But at least with Han, he isn't like Vader, who was compelling because he was shrouded in mystery. Even if young Han is a whiny little bitch, I don't think it would do damage to the image of Han that the prequels arguably did to Vader, as I could totally see Han being a whiny little bitch in his youth.



Don't get me wrong, Han always flawed and human and I liked that.

But I get the feeling, Disney may push him over the limit.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the same people who claimed responsibility for nuking the Star Wars RT audience score is trying to bring down Black Panther too...



Seriously?  It's only opened in Hollywood so far, why would they be so intent on trying to bring down Black Panther?


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## Glued (Feb 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the same people who claimed responsibility for nuking the Star Wars RT audience score is trying to bring down Black Panther too...



He wants attention, don't give it to him.


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## The Runner (Feb 1, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Seriously?  It's only opened in Hollywood so far, why would they be so intent on trying to bring down Black Panther?


probably not very big
Console wars


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## Aeternus (Feb 2, 2018)

lol Some people really have nothing better to do apparently.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 4, 2018)

Big 2 comic fans are the worse.


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## Ennoea (Feb 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the same people who claimed responsibility for nuking the Star Wars RT audience score is trying to bring down Black Panther too...


You mean the general population??? Cuz thats who did that.

The black panther lot are a bunch of white angry Americans who don't like to see black people. Hardly big enough of a number to make much of a dent on RT.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## reiatsuflow (Feb 4, 2018)

Black panther will not get a low audience RT score. This will just demonstrate how impotent these campaigns actually are. And indirectly reveal last jedi's low score to be more legitimate.

I don't know anybody who had any investment in star wars and loved this movie. 

...I don't know anyone who posts or votes on rottentomatoes for that matter, but I'm not a gallup poll.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Feb 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the same people who claimed responsibility for nuking the Star Wars RT audience score is trying to bring down Black Panther too...


And you honestly think it was him? Dont be ridiculous. It's always some conspiracy theory whenever something they dont like happens:
The russians, the alt right, the trump supporters, the racists, the trolls, 4chan, narutoforums, etc.. etc..



Ennoea said:


> You mean the general population??? Cuz thats who did that.
> 
> The black panther lot are a bunch of white angry Americans who don't like to see black people. Hardly big enough of a number to make much of a dent on RT.


I remember back in the day when Blade and Spawn came out, no one was making a fuss like they are doing right now. This movie encompasses all that is currently wrong with USA, they cant separate their politics from their entertainment because of the level of inftilism that the current adult generation brings. This movie it's literally as if the we wus kangs meme and Trump's american had a baby.



Catalyst75 said:


> Seriously?  It's only opened in Hollywood so far, why would they be so intent on trying to bring down Black Panther?


Sounds to me like pre-emptive damage control in case it gets bad reviews by normal people. Also - if you didnt like it that means you where a troll or a racist - BS.


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## Garcher (Feb 10, 2018)

I finally watched this movie so I can shit on it

Reactions: Informative 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 10, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> And you honestly think it was him? Dont be ridiculous. It's always some conspiracy theory whenever something they dont like happens:
> The russians, the alt right, the trump supporters, the racists, the trolls, 4chan, narutoforums, etc.. etc..



I didn't say that. I have no idea, but it's a topic of interest. 




> I remember back in the day when Blade and Spawn came out, no one was making a fuss like they are doing right now. This movie encompasses all that is currently wrong with USA, they cant separate their politics from their entertainment because of the level of inftilism that the current adult generation brings. This movie it's literally as if the we wus kangs meme and Trump's american had a baby



"Blade" and "Spawn" were designed to be cult favorites though, not mainstream hits, which is why they're both Rated R. Also, while it's been a long time since I've seen "Blade" and even longer since I've seen "Spawn", I don't remember a lot of other black people in them outside of the leads. "Black Panther" is comprised mostly of black filmmakers and actors. 

Right now, people make a big deal out of this kind of stuff because diversity is a subject of interest right now in our culture. How is that 'everything that is wrong with this country'? I would personally say political elitism, media manipulation and national arrogance are bigger problems.


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 10, 2018)

Blade was fucking awesome; the first movie Marvel ever got right.

it's super 90's though

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 10, 2018)

Yeah, very 90's. Both Blade and its (first) sequel were pretty awesome.


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## Aeternus (Feb 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yeah, very 90's. Both Blade and its (first) sequel were pretty awesome.


I'll definitely agree with this. The third movie was, just not that good.


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## Suigetsu (Feb 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Right now, people make a big deal out of this kind of stuff because diversity is a subject of interest right now in our culture. How is that 'everything that is wrong with this country'? I would personally say political elitism, media manipulation and national arrogance are bigger problems.


The storyline and film over all it's pretentious as fuck, cringe bad action cgi that I havent seen since Wonder Woman - this shit looks like a PS2 game cut scene altought it's not as bad as wonder woman I can at least give it that.

I feel this movie should had come out 8 to 10 years ago, at least it would have been given merit by it's actual film making peers and achievements as opposed to just having a murrican political agenda.


> Political elitism, media manipulation and national arrogance are bigger problems.


Funny enough all of that is what surrounds this movie, this is why I as a non American find it tainted, it should have been better than this. Critics going sassy dandy on twitter whenever someone gave it a not okay review - it's capeshit but they treat it as if it where some citizen kane kind of shiet - FFS Even the shape of water is political as fuck because no matter how much del toro likes to brag about being mexican, he clearly is more interested in American politics and way of thinking than on what is actually going on in his own country.

What a shameful timeline 

And yes Blade 2 was fun as fuck, I have the blue ray and I enjoy it greatly. Shame the last one was such a trainwreck, it made me sad.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> The storyline and film over all it's pretentious as fuck, cringe bad action cgi that I havent seen since Wonder Woman - this shit looks like a PS2 game cut scene altought it's not as bad as wonder woman I can at least give it that.
> 
> I feel this movie should had come out 8 to 10 years ago, at least it would have been given merit by it's actual film making peers and achievements as opposed to just having a murrican political agenda.
> 
> ...



I struggle with internet speak, but does this mean you've actually seen the movie?


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## Suigetsu (Feb 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I struggle with internet speak, but does this mean you've actually seen the movie?


woops, spoke too much. We shall continue this conversation never, I dont wanna get in trouble.

No but seriously have you seen all the u.s. press and buzz surrounding the movie? It's basically what I decribed. Meanwhile proper Blade 3 never


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## MartialHorror (Feb 11, 2018)

Press and Buzz will always latch onto whatever sells tickets and stirs up interest...Who cares?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Press and Buzz will always latch onto whatever sells tickets and stirs up interest...Who cares?


The press hated American Sniper and loved Get Out.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Feb 11, 2018)

Dear God I miss the 90s.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 11, 2018)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> The press hated American Sniper and loved Get Out.



And? 

I don't remember the press hating "American Sniper", but under the assumption that they did, the titular sniper ended up being a controversial figure in real life- with accusations of racism, war glorification and falsifying claims. His estate was sued for it and lost, while the movie got flak for claiming that they donated all the money from the book to charity. Then there was the fake baby thing...But even then, the movie was critically acclaimed. 

"Get Out" is the perfect kind of underdog movie, as it had a cast full of minorities, a topical theme, was directed by a comedian (as a debut) and was also critically acclaimed. 

There are reasons to get good press and bad press and both movies fit the criteria to get theirs. I'm assuming you're trying to put a 'liberal media' spin on this, which is why you thought to compare both those movies without any kind of context. But did it matter anyway? Both movies were lauded and hugely successful...and if you're also insinuating that people are plebs and are willing to join the hype train, doesn't that support my "people hate 'The Last Jedi' because it's trendy" argument? Didn't this debate spark but ya'll disagreeing with me on this? ARGH! I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS ANYMORE.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> And?
> 
> I don't remember the press hating "American Sniper", but under the assumption that they did, the titular sniper ended up being a controversial figure in real life- with accusations of racism, war glorification and falsifying claims. His estate was sued for it and lost, while the movie got flak for claiming that they donated all the money from the book to charity. Then there was the fake baby thing...But even then, the movie was critically acclaimed.
> 
> ...


You made the blind hype train argument.Than you made it clear that it does not exist.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 12, 2018)

Kalondo Zephyrin said:


> You made the blind hype train argument.Than you made it clear that it does not exist.



Not necessarily, as I don't remember the press crapping on "American Sniper" at all, at least prior to its release. I was making a point that even if it was crapped on by the press, it wasn't necessarily because of a political agenda. I also don't really think hype or buzz will cause audiences to think a good movie is bad. The 'hype train' usually only has an impact on divisive or middling movies. 

So movies like "Avatar" or "Wonder Woman", which are pretty good, suddenly blow up into modern day classics because it's trendy. It should also be noted that "TLJ" was getting shade even before its release, as people were bitching about the trailers and the over-saturation of "Star Wars" flicks. So the table was already set for a back-lash. I'm not saying that everyone would've liked it had it not been for a hype. I think the majority of detractors still would've been detractors on some level, but they probably would not act like it slept with their Mothers.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 12, 2018)



Reactions: Like 5


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 13, 2018)

even the spoofs are better

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 13, 2018)

it just hit me that ghost Yoda is using lightning .. LIKE A SITH LORD


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## MartialHorror (Feb 13, 2018)

It would've been amazing if that's how the movie climaxed, with the Jedi playing baseball with light sabers and laser beams.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 13, 2018)

Weiss Lucifer said:


> it just hit me that ghost Yoda is using lightning .. LIKE A SITH LORD



Yoda doesn't just use a Sith technique, he conjures a force storm which is like the mother of all Sith techniques and is supposed to be super blasphemous and evil because it rapes space around it a little and then he blows up the first Jedi church and all its remaining knowledge.

..we sure Yoda wasn't secretly a powerful Dark Jedi and this was some long con between him and Snoke or someshit?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Yoda doesn't just use a Sith technique, he conjures a force storm which is like the mother of all Sith techniques and is supposed to be super blasphemous and evil because it rapes space around it a little and then he blows up the first Jedi church and all its remaining knowledge.
> 
> ..we sure Yoda wasn't secretly a powerful Dark Jedi and this was some long con between him and Snoke or someshit?



It's kinda obvious now that Rian Johnson didn't know anything about Star Wars and lied his way to the job and just randomly pulled ideas out of his ass.

Hence...Leia Poppins.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Yoda doesn't just use a Sith technique, he conjures a force storm which is like the mother of all Sith techniques and is supposed to be super blasphemous and evil because it rapes space around it a little and then he blows up the first Jedi church and all its remaining knowledge.
> 
> ..we sure Yoda wasn't secretly a powerful Dark Jedi and this was some long con between him and Snoke or someshit?



Yet you have Plo Koon use Electric Judgement and Luke Skywalker with his Emerald Lightning in the Legends canon.

What Yoda did as a Force Ghost is not all that different from what the Bendu did.  TheBendu is not a Sith Lord, and he used Lightning in a similar way to what Yoda did in "The Last Jedi"; he generated a storm cloud around his body and sent down lightning from said cloud, which looks and behaves like natural lightning.


Yoda's demonstration as a Force Ghost was the same.  He drew upon an existing storm cloud to call down natural lightning.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> It's kinda obvious now that Rian Johnson didn't know anything about Star Wars and lied his way to the job and just randomly pulled ideas out of his ass.
> 
> Hence...Leia Poppins.



okay I get why everyone rushes to Marry Poppins because its Disney, but am I really the only one who immediately thought


Because lets be honest, after all that meth Carrie Fisher looked a lot more like a third stage Guild Navigator.

I swear, I kept hearing "FATHER! THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED!" and I'm horrible.



Catalyst75 said:


> Yet you have Plo Koon use Electric Judgement and Luke Skywalker with his Emerald Lightning in the Legends canon.\



And this would be some of the dumber parts of the old EU..Granted Luke wielding a lightsided version of force lightning makes more sense since he's more a Qui Gon style Jedi...but still.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> What Yoda did as a Force Ghost is not all that different from what the Bendu did.  TheBendu is not a Sith Lord, and he used Lightning in a similar way to what Yoda did in "The Last Jedi"; he generated a storm cloud around his body and sent down lightning from said cloud, which looks and behaves like natural lightning.



The Bendu's entire existence is heresy to both Jedi and Sith..he is the middle ground and has access to powers no jedi should have. Yoda, the hardcore fanatic we knew in the films would have reacted with disgust to that.

There's no objective defense of it..


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> The Bendu's entire existence is heresy to both Jedi and Sith..he is the middle ground and has access to powers no jedi should have. Yoda, the hardcore fanatic we knew in the films would have reacted with disgust to that.
> 
> There's no objective defense of it..



"Hard-core fanatic"?  I think that's more in line with Mace Windu than Yoda.

Yes, the Bendu being "the one in the middle" would be considered a heresy to both Jedi and Sith, but I think you are failing to distinguish the difference between the Force Lightning the Sith use, and how _natural_ lightning was manipulated by both the Bendu and Yoda.


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## Glued (Feb 14, 2018)

I get it, its like Warcraft or Naruto.

In Warcraft the Shamans use actual fire or lava while Mages bend space and time using arcane magic to create fire.

Or in Naruto you have the magical lightning derived from chakra such as Chidori and the natural lightning Sasuke used by Sasuke when he manipulated an actual thunder cloud to create Kirin.

Oh dear, lord their taking shit from Naruto.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 14, 2018)

I don't know about extended lore of "Star Wars", but I always felt like the Jedi and the Sith could do a lot more than the films showed, as choking, brain washing, telekinesis, lightning and...ghosting (?) is a weird combination if that's all the force could do. I always felt like the prequels under-used the force, although strangely, Lucas seems to have changed his mind on some things. Remember when Obi Wan and Qui-Gon made themselves move really fast in "Phantom Menace"? It was an odd (and not good) effect, but you never see that again. 

I'd like to think there are no limitations as to what the force can do and it comes down to the users knowledge and maybe their imagination. So Yoda summoning lightning didn't seem odd to me at all. If anything, him not being able to use crazy powers like that wouldn't make sense, as the dark side isn't supposed to be stronger than the light (but they seem to get all the cool stuff). 

There was a time when I thought it would be cool if Jedi or Sith could use the force to use fire, ice, etc. instead of just lightning, but I think we've seen that kind of stuff too much in movies, anime, etc. Having too many fantasy elements almost makes Star Wars seem more generic, so I prefer the force be used for things like illusions, binding, etc. 



Ben Grimm said:


> I get it, its like Warcraft or Naruto.
> 
> In Warcraft the Shamans use actual fire or lava while Mages bend space and time using arcane magic to create fire.
> 
> ...



Even though this is a joke, it would not surprise me as American filmmakers love borrowing from anime.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 14, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> "Hard-core fanatic"?  I think that's more in line with Mace Windu than Yoda.



No, it would apply to Yoda as well, man led the Jedi order for centuries, the orthodoxy and dogmatism stems from his guidance. 


Catalyst75 said:


> "
> Yes, the Bendu being "the one in the middle" would be considered a heresy to both Jedi and Sith, but I think you are failing to distinguish the difference between the Force Lightning the Sith use, and how _natural_ lightning was manipulated by both the Bendu and Yoda.



because you're wrong, its not about failing to grasp anything. Nothing about what the Bendu did was natural, that storm was entirely his power, to the point that he seemed to become sort of intangible and turn into it.

that was not natural...nor was what Yoda did,.


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## Gaiash (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that was not natural...nor was what Yoda did,.


He used the force to move a cloud to a specific location. Also this is the guy who redirected Dooku's lighting back at him, there is no reason to argue against Yoda moving lighting because he already did it. If firing a Sith's lighting back at him is fine then moving a regular storm that you can see happening earlier in the scene is also fine. The only reason people get annoyed about it is because they weren't paying attention to the movie and think he created the lighting, which he didn't.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because you're wrong, its not about failing to grasp anything. Nothing about what the Bendu did was natural, that storm was entirely his power, to the point that he seemed to become sort of intangible and turn into it.
> 
> that was not natural...nor was what Yoda did,.



Except a Convor appears alongside the Bendu in its first appearance (just as one does on Malachor observing Ahsoka), and the mid-season trailer for Season 4 indicates that specific Convor is a messenger and observer _for the Daughter, _the embodiment of the Light Side.  In fact, the trailer showed a temple on Lothal connected to the Ones.  

I bring this up because I just reached the Ones in my _Clone Wars _marathon, and the Father mentions this: "There are some who would like to exploit our power.  The Sith are but one.  Too much Dark _*or Light*_ would be the undoing of life as you understand it."

The Jedi have a view of the Force, but it is not absolute or complete.  The Jedi Order did not believe that one could retain their identity after death, yet Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin and Luke both learned how to do exactly that.  By the old Jedi Order definition, the Force Ghost would fall among the "unnatural" as well.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Feb 14, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> . The only reason people get annoyed about it is because they weren't paying attention to the movie and think he created the lighting, which he didn't.



so because Yoda redirected some dudes artificial lightning, he can move an entire storm or manipulate one? No



Catalyst75 said:


> Except a Convor appears alongside the Bendu in its first appearance (just as one does on Malachor observing Ahsoka), and the mid-season trailer for Season 4 indicates that specific Convor is a messenger and observer _for the Daughter, _the embodiment of the Light Side.  In fact, the trailer showed a temple on Lothal connected to the Ones. .



So beyond conjecture, you've got nothing solid.

I'll go with what was shown in the actual scene which very much appears to be the bendu creating and wielding the storm.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 14, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> So beyond conjecture, you've got nothing solid.


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## dr_shadow (Feb 15, 2018)

So we're at the two-month mark, and it's time for a look at the box office again.

TFA: $2.068 billion
TLJ: $1.325 billion (64%)


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## Aeternus (Feb 15, 2018)

All things considered, it did rather good. Sure, a lot might say that it underperformed and yeah, maybe that's true but it was also unreasonable to believe that it could reach those numbers again. Two billion is not something easy to reach or even surpass.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 15, 2018)

I wonder how the "Avatar" sequels will perform, as I still feel like general audiences have forgotten about "Avatar" and it will probably need to do over a billion dollars just to break even. 

"TLJ" did fine, profiting like $600 mil, not counting DVD and Blu-Ray sales. But as it did do less than Disney wanted, our only hope is that they scale back on Star Warsploitation. We don't need one of these every year, dammit!


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## dr_shadow (Feb 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I wonder how the "Avatar" sequels will perform, as I still feel like general audiences have forgotten about "Avatar" and it will probably need to do over a billion dollars just to break even.
> 
> "TLJ" did fine, profiting like $600 mil, not counting DVD and Blu-Ray sales. But as it did do less than Disney wanted, our only hope is that they scale back on Star Warsploitation. We don't need one of these every year, dammit!



China loves "A-Fan-Da 阿凡达" tho. They'll be out in droves for the sequel.


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## Fang (Feb 15, 2018)

Definitely one of the worst films of the last twenty years.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1 | Old 1


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## Aeternus (Feb 15, 2018)

Definitely not a great movie and being a good one is even debatable but worst film of the last twenty years? Seems like a bit too much.


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## Fang (Feb 15, 2018)

You don't make Battlefield Earth look good and not get that level of disgust

Reactions: Funny 1 | Old 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> There was a time when I thought it would be cool if Jedi or Sith could use the force to use fire, ice, etc. instead of just lightning, but I think we've seen that kind of stuff too much in movies, anime, etc. Having too many fantasy elements almost makes Star Wars seem more generic, so I prefer the force be used for things like illusions, binding, etc.



Force fire is an actual ability and Leia even used it in RotJ to light candles.


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## ~VK~ (Feb 15, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Force fire is an actual ability and Leia even used it in RotJ to light candles.


iirc didn't that only happen in one of the EU books?


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 15, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> iirc didn't that only happen in one of the EU books?



Oh that's right. My mind's wandering on me today.

But force fire has been used in other Star Wars materials as well. It's just force users rubbing air molecules together until they ignite.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 15, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> But force fire has been used in other Star Wars materials as well. It's just force users rubbing air molecules together until they ignite.



Yoda summoning lightning from a storm cloud would be similar; exciting electrical charges for a directed lightning strike.


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## Gaiash (Feb 15, 2018)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so because Yoda redirected some dudes artificial lightning, he can move an entire storm or manipulate one? No


He can move a storm because moving things with the force is something he's been established as being good at since Empire Strikes Back. I brought up redirecting Dooku's lighting at him because he used lighting created by a Sith to attack and no one had a problem with it but for some reason moving a storm to strike a tree is using the dark side.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 20, 2018)

That's not a long time at all.  From my observation, film DVDs usually come out four to six months after release.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 20, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> That's not a long time at all.  From my observation, film DVDs usually come out four to six months after release.



It's only 3 weeks quicker than "The Force Awakens", so I wouldn't read too much into it.


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## Hvalur (Feb 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> He can move a storm because moving things with the force is something he's been established as being good at since Empire Strikes Back. I brought up redirecting Dooku's lighting at him because he used lighting created by a Sith to attack and no one had a problem with it but for some reason moving a storm to strike a tree is using the dark side.


...so I can move a truck because it was established when i was a toddler that i can move truck toys? that's how ridiculous this analogy here is, comparing dooku's confined lightning blast with force storm that sucks an entire planet's face off

and it's dark side because it was literally a destructive, hell even genocidal sith move in the EU


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## Gaiash (Feb 21, 2018)

Hvalur said:


> ...so I can move a truck because it was established when i was a toddler that i can move truck toys?


If you were using the force, yes. That was the entire point of what Yoda was teaching Luke in Empire. Luke says moving the X-Wing is impossible because it's too big and then Yoda moves it.



Hvalur said:


> that's how ridiculous this analogy here is, comparing dooku's confined lightning blast with force storm that sucks an entire planet's face off
> 
> and it's dark side because it was literally a destructive, hell even genocidal sith move in the EU


It wasn't a force storm. It was a storm that was already happening earlier in the scene before Yoda even appeared while Rey was still on the planet. You can see the lightning in the background several times. And all Yoda does is focus that storm so the lighting will strike a tree.

And the entire point of me bringing up redirecting Dooku's lightning is that his lightning *is* made using the dark side of the force but Yoda still fires it back at him. If you have to problem with him using lightning created by a Sith in combat why is it suddenly so bad for him to use a regular old storm's lighting to strike a tree?


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## Glued (Feb 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> It wasn't a force storm. It was a storm that was already happening earlier in the scene before Yoda even appeared while Rey was still on the planet. You can see the lightning in the background several times. And all Yoda does is focus that storm so the lighting will strike a tree.



Yoda is Sasuke Uchiha, confrimed.

Kirin no Jutsu.


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## Kuromaku (Feb 21, 2018)

There's a huge difference between what Yoda did and what the Sith (and Snoke) did though. Yoda merely took something natural and redirected its course. The Dark Side users, on the other hand, basically hated so much that their hatred took on a form similar to electricity that they could discharge from their own bodies, something completely unnatural.


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## Hvalur (Feb 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> If you were using the force, yes. That was the entire point of what Yoda was teaching Luke in Empire. Luke says moving the X-Wing is impossible because it's too big and then Yoda moves it.


but that logic is flawed
just because you can move something with the force doesn't mean you can move some other thing too

it's like saying a strongman can deadlift 1000lbs if he managed to lift 900lb just because he used strength both times. there's a limit to everything
i am not saying yoda is not potentially powerful enough for something like it in the extended story line, but that it goes against his movie character completely to maddle with that shit especially since he destroyed a freaking jedi temple...while being freaking dead dude




Gaiash said:


> It wasn't a force storm. It was a storm that was already happening earlier in the scene before Yoda even appeared while Rey was still on the planet. You can see the lightning in the background several times. And all Yoda does is focus that storm so the lighting will strike a tree.
> 
> And the entire point of me bringing up redirecting Dooku's lightning is that his lightning *is* made using the dark side of the force but Yoda still fires it back at him. If you have to problem with him using lightning created by a Sith in combat why is it suddenly so bad for him to use a regular old storm's lighting to strike a tree?


sure, it's made by the dark side, but Anakin survived Dooku's lightning and Luke survived the emperor's prolonged lightning barrage and these this means force lightning is not more powerful than a potentially lethal electric shock in the movies

But there's no way either of them would survive a lightning blast though, therefore channeling and redirecting a storm is a way, way more demanding feat than redirecting Dooku's attack back at him 

don't forget that emperor blasted yoda against a wall with his lightning when he fought him before he even had the chance to react and he survived it, and after that, when he had'd the entire senate thrown in his face, he barely managed to block emperor's lightning at point blank range

tl;dr episode 8 ruined both yoda and luke to the point that even Mark Hamill himself couldn't believe it


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 22, 2018)

Rey can probably use force lighting better than Palpatine or Yoda though, because she's a fucking Mary Sue that doesn't need training or experience to do anything force related.


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## Gaiash (Feb 22, 2018)

Hvalur said:


> but that logic is flawed
> just because you can move something with the force doesn't mean you can move some other thing too
> 
> it's like saying a strongman can deadlift 1000lbs if he managed to lift 900lb just because he used strength both times. there's a limit to everything


That was Yoda's entire lesson. Luke could move smaller objects with the force but not things he physically couldn't lift. Also you've forgotten an important line from Obi Wan; "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". So if you felt moving a storm cloud was beyond Yoda's abilities when he was alive there's no reason to think that he can't now that he's more powerful due to becoming one with the force.



Hvalur said:


> sure, it's made by the dark side, but Anakin survived Dooku's lightning and Luke survived the emperor's prolonged lightning barrage and these this means force lightning is not more powerful than a potentially lethal electric shock in the movies
> 
> But there's no way either of them would survive a lightning blast though, therefore channeling and redirecting a storm is a way, way more demanding feat than redirecting Dooku's attack back at him


Yoda wasn't using the lightning in combat. He used it on an empty tree. The dark side is all about intent and use of the force. He didn't use it to attack Kylo Ren like in the parody video that sparked this entire discussion.



Hvalur said:


> tl;dr episode 8 ruined both yoda and luke to the point that even Mark Hamill himself couldn't believe it


Mark Hamill was critical because of his first impression when he saw the script but he changed his mind when he saw it in the context of the film because he actually payed attention. , so maybe stop using him in your argument against the movie.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Rey can probably use force lighting better than Palpatine or Yoda though, because she's a fucking Mary Sue that doesn't need training or experience to do anything force related.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 23, 2018)

How is Rey not a Mary Sue?  She literally learned the force existed a week ago and is now somehow more proficient at it than people like Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren without doing any training whatsoever. She defeated Luke in hand to hand combat. She can perform force powers without practice or demonstration. She can lift like an entire mountain of rocks just because. She translates wookie to Luke who has known Chewie for like 40 years. She tells Han Solo how to pilot the Millennium Falcon. She undergoes zero character growth, goes through no struggles, has no overall character arch because she's already had everything handed to her. She can recklessly do terrible things and face no reprecussions for her actions. She is the most disgustingly Mary Sue character in cinematic history tbh. 

Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.


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## Mider T (Feb 23, 2018)

This movie is now the 9th highest grossing of all time, right above Frozen and right below Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows Pt 2.  It currently sits at $1,329,000,000.  13 million more and it will bump up into Harry Potter's space.


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 23, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She can perform force powers without practice or demonstration



Except Kylo Ren demonstrated Force powers to her on two occasions that relate to what she did afterwards - Kylo Ren probing Rey's mind let to her attempting to manipulate the mind of the Stormtrooper guarding her; Kylo Ren Force-pushing her would have shown her that the Force can be used to move objects, which she did when she pulled the Lightsaber towards her.  The only instance she didn't copy Ren was when he made her fall asleep and immobilized her.

_Both of which was the extent of her knowledge, and the answer she gave Luke when he asked her what the Force is.
_


Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She literally learned the force existed a week ago and is now somehow more proficient at it than people like Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren without doing any training whatsoever



Which is a rather baseless claim when we've seen her do so little with the Force compared to Ren's wider demonstration of abilities, or Luke creating a near-perfect construct of himself on a planet across the Galaxy that fooled virtually everyone who saw it.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She tells Han Solo how to pilot the Millennium Falcon



False.  The only thing she said in relation to the Falcon were things added by someone else after Han lost it.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She undergoes zero character growth, goes through no struggles, has no overall character arch because she's already had everything handed to her.



Initially refusing to come terms with the fact her parents were never coming back for her or the truth about them.  The naivete of her feelings towards Ren as a result of their Force Bond.  Acting impulsively on her emotions, and letting them cloud her judgement to the extent she inadvertently helped Kylo Ren usurp Snoke and become Supreme Leader.  

In other words, she does go through her own personal struggles, and she is still developing as a result of those struggles.  Saying that she hasn't had any character growth or character arc sounds like someone who has not been paying attention.


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## Gaiash (Feb 23, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> How is Rey not a Mary Sue?


Well you could always pay attention to the movies and get your answer.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She literally learned the force existed a week ago and is now somehow more proficient at it than people like Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren without doing any training whatsoever.


It's called being strong with the force, something the series has already made clear is a thing.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She defeated Luke in hand to hand combat.


An unarmed Luke. That's also not really tied to the force since Luke only really uses it to break the hut she was in. Rey being able to fight is something established early in The Force Awakens when she takes out the bandits that were trying to steal BB-8 from her.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She can perform force powers without practice or demonstration.


Luke never got any training to use the force to lift a lightsaber before doing it in Empire, all Obi Wan taught him was to sense attacks without looking.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She can lift like an entire mountain of rocks just because.


Not just because, it's a sign of her progress at using the force. It's also so that the resistance can escape.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She translates wookie to Luke who has known Chewie for like 40 years.


Rey spent most of her life on a junk planet, plenty of time to learn languages like droid and wookie. Also Luke not knowing how to speak wookie or being rusty isn't really anything to do with Rey, that's on Luke.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She tells Han Solo how to pilot the Millennium Falcon.


No, she explains the modifications made by the guy she spent most of her life working for that she was present for when they were made.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She undergoes zero character growth, goes through no struggles, has no overall character arch because she's already had everything handed to her.


She starts out not wanting to leave Jakku in hopes that her parents will come back for her. Throughout The Force Awakens she keeps saying that once the mission is over she's going back to Jakku even turning down a tempting job offer from Han Solo and running away when Anakin's lightsaber calls to her. Later in the film after being in the center of the conflict and understanding she has a place in it rather than go back to Jakku she travels to meet Luke and find her place in the story.

And in The Last Jedi her story arc ties to the theme of failure. She fails to convince Luke to join the resistance, fails Luke's tests and fails to turn Kylo Ren to the light side. That's a lot of failure for someone you claim has everything handed to her. Oh and all those years spent waiting on Jakku for her parents, a waste of time. They were never coming back and died as nobodies.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She can recklessly do terrible things and face no reprecussions for her actions.


The third movie isn't out yet. We haven't seen the consequence of putting the First Order in Kylo's hands.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> She is the most disgustingly Mary Sue character in cinematic history tbh.
> 
> Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.


Oh and Mary Sue is a fanfic term not a cinema term.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 23, 2018)

Look at this terrible defense of a Mary Sue. 

Mary Sue is a fanfic term? Cool. TLJ was a shitty fanfic written by Rian Johnson.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 23, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Oh and Mary Sue is a fanfic term not a cinema term.



Admittedly, it is a general trope that defines all forms of media.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> TLJ was a shitty fanfic written by Rian Johnson.



Yet the old EU was never fully official in the first place, as Timothy Zahn himself said:

“We just don’t have it as official [canon]—except it never really was official, in the sense that it was [set] in stone,” he said. “It was always something [George] Lucas could override at any time. And in fact, everybody who had written stuff about Boba Fett watched that backstory get demolished in the prequel trilogy.”

And the EU itself had some very questionable stories with main characters behaving in very questionable ways, from what I've found.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 23, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> And the EU itself had some very questionable stories with main characters behaving in very questionable ways, from what I've found.



That much is true, but it's to be expected when you have dozens of cooks stirring the pot[plot].

The Yuuzhan Vong was just...


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## Gaiash (Feb 23, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Look at this terrible defense of a Mary Sue.


Not my fault all your problems can be solved by paying attention to the movie.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Mary Sue is a fanfic term? Cool. TLJ was a shitty fanfic written by Rian Johnson.


Not really, it's an official Star Wars movie from Lucasfilm with members of the original cast, a John Williams score and everything. A fanfic is unofficial.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 24, 2018)

"Paying attention" doesn't magically handwave away bad storytelling and poor character development. But whatever...it's clear we need to agree to disagree on this.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm just impressed you guys are still fighting this battle. The movie is mostly out of theaters by this point. 

This is why you should watch "Carnosaur".

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Feb 24, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I'm just impressed you guys are still fighting this battle. The movie is mostly out of theaters by this point.
> 
> This is why you should watch "Carnosaur".



Pfft...Carnosaur aint got nothing on Sharknado nor Snakes on a Plane.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Pfft...Carnosaur aint got nothing on Sharknado nor Snakes on a Plane.



Pfft, those movies can't even touch "Carnosaur 3"! 

"Carnosaur" was the OG mockbuster. Even Siskel and Ebert reviewed it!


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 24, 2018)

Birdemic > Carnosaur

You can find _it_ on every illegal site; Carnosaur? Pfft don't nobody remember that shit 

but Miami Connection beats them both.


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## Mider T (Feb 24, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I'm just impressed you guys are still fighting this battle. The movie is mostly out of theaters by this point.
> 
> This is why you should watch "Carnosaur".


It's still in theaters and still making millions.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gaiash (Feb 24, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> "Paying attention" doesn't magically handwave away bad storytelling and poor character development.


It solves all the problems you brought up though.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Carnosaur doesn't have Samuel Jackson talking snakes on crack.



No...but it has Ron Howard talking about biting the heads off of chickens. 




> What is Birdemic?



One of those super bad movies like "The Room", that developed a cult following for its badness. It also has a sequel, although no one gives a shit about that.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 25, 2018)

Miami Connection is nothing compared to LA Street Fighters.


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> It's still in theaters and still making millions.



It was taken out three weeks ago by my local theater and replaced by Valerian.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Feb 25, 2018)

Fang said:


> It was taken out three weeks ago by my local theater and replaced by Valerian.


Cool.  Domestic gross wise TLJ is 6th highest of all time.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Cool.  Domestic gross wise TLJ is 6th highest of all time.



So what. It also has the biggest box office drop in film history and that's not even factoring the local theaters taking their cut, production costs and marketing costs as well.

1.3 billion - 500 million (production + marketing which is likely still to be higher than this low end based off Rogue 1 and TFA's own numbers) - 20-40% theater overhead = underwhelming revenue.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Feb 25, 2018)

Fang said:


> It also has the biggest box office drop in film history


Lol no


Fang said:


> factoring the local theaters taking their cut, production costs and marketing costs as well.


Not any more detrimental than other large scale movies?  Ones that TLJ has already eclipsed.


Fang said:


> 20-40% theater overhead = underwhelming revenue.



Nope.  Movies don't make over 500 million domestic alone and get called underwhelming

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Lol no



Wrong.



> Not any more detrimental than other large scale movies?  Ones that TLJ has already eclipsed.



Wrong.



> Nope.  Movies don't make over 500 million domestic alone and get called underwhelming



Wrong again, brainlet. You are talking so far up your own ass that even Forbes has called this shit out.







			
				Forbes said:
			
		

> So, here’s the indisputably lousy news: Rian Johnson’s _Star Wars: The Last Jedi _lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot.



But of course you are so obstinate you seem to think this historic drop, the biggest of any film much less a major franchise like fucking Star Wars which is "too big" to fail is somehow a positive thing. So I will recap one more time:

Both R1 and TFA had minimum roughly $500 million on production costs and marketing/advertisements. Disney would not put any less into TLJ than they did with R1, and most likely more so. That automatically rips $500 million from the revenue TLJ makes, now there's also the take local theaters and cinema owners take for airing and running the films at their businesses. Then what's left over is there for TLJ.

TLJ is a flop for Disney, not even going into comparing it with TFA.

Stay salty.


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## Gaiash (Feb 25, 2018)

What is it with people on this site and arguing about box office sales?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Because money makes the world go round


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## Garcher (Feb 25, 2018)

are here people who actually defend this movie?


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## Gaiash (Feb 25, 2018)

GARcher said:


> are here people who actually defend this movie?


Does people having a different opinion than you surprise you that much?


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## Garcher (Feb 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Does people having a different opinion than you surprise you that much?


it surprises me that someone with enough intelligence to sign up on a forum could possibly believe this movie is actually good, yes

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Neutral 1


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## Gaiash (Feb 25, 2018)

GARcher said:


> it surprises me that someone with enough intelligence to sign up on a forum could possibly believe this movie is actually good, yes


Third best Star Wars film in my opinion.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2018)

Fang said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know if things have changed, but I remember around the time one of the prequels came out, my class went on a field trip to Harkins Theatres and they explained how theaters functioned. As this was in high school, I assume it was "Revenge of the Sith", but they said they'd probably get around 1% of the ticket sales for that theater, but if the studio didn't want to give them even that, they'd still probably show the movie anyway.

So I can't imagine the theaters would eat THAT much out of its profits, especially as they're gradually losing leverage with the rise of streaming services.

Prior to the films release, I heard it needed $700,000,000 to break even. Assuming that's true, it's not a flop, but there's little disputing that it's a financial disappointment. If "Solo" continues that trend, I wonder what Disney will do.


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## Glued (Feb 25, 2018)

Only three people can save Star Wars.

Stannis Baratheon
Melissandre
Ser Davos Seaworth.

Make Stannis the main villain as an Admiral. Mel would be a Dathomiri witch. Ser Davos Seaworth would be a vice admiral.


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## TrueG 37 (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Lol no
> 
> Not any more detrimental than other large scale movies?  Ones that TLJ has already eclipsed.
> 
> ...


Because you know. Brand recognition totally didn't give them those numbers .


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2018)

TrueG 37 said:


> Because you know. Brand recognition totally didn't give them those numbers .



It's sort of an irrelevant point, as the vast majority of films that gross $500mil rely on brand recognition. All of the top 10 grossing films of 2017 are all sequels or remakes...

Jesus...I keep forgetting that "Wolf Warrior 2" somehow ended up on that list.

But yes, a movie can gross $500 mil domestically and be underwhelming, if it fell short of financial expectations (which TLJ did). Doesn't make it a flop though


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So I can't imagine the theaters would eat THAT much out of its profits, especially as they're gradually losing leverage with the rise of streaming services.
> 
> Prior to the films release, I heard it needed $700,000,000 to break even. Assuming that's true, it's not a flop, but there's little disputing that it's a financial disappointment. If "Solo" continues that trend, I wonder what Disney will do.



Streaming services aren't hurting the film industry. On top of that, I don't know how or why they would say 1% but given how big of a failure TLJ was financially falling repeatedly below even Disney's conservative estimates and the aggressive contracting to force theater owners to air it twice as long over the usual rate, this has the net effect of strengthening cinema/theater owners.  But either way they definitely take more than 1% of the profit. Anyway from what I understand:

- First to second week the production/developer takes 70% to 80% of the profit
- After that initial period into the third or fourth weeks, the take on the ticket money for the movie becomes 60% to 70% for theater
- Big studios especially those like Fox and Disney (not that the distinction makes a difference since Murdoch sold Fox to Disney) also pay extra for longer running times and airing specific trailers 
- I can attest to this directly because when I went to see Black Panther this past Wednesday, almost all of the trailers in a row were Disney ones (Solo movie, followed by Avengers: Infinity War, Venom, Deadpool 2, Ant-Man 2, etc...)

So to follow up again:

Disney based off past data with production costs and marketing costs for The Force Awakens and Rogue One spent at least:

- $250 to $270 million on making the movie
- $260 to $280 million on marketing the movie

So either way over half a billion was spent to push TLJ out, and the final two or three weeks of profits has the majority of money going to the local theater owners at least how we know the system is set up in NA, and Europe.

They made money, but they did not make that much money. Revenue has to be weighed in relation for profit against costs and what the theaters take.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2018)

Fang said:


> Streaming services aren't hurting the film industry. On top of that, I don't know how or why they would say 1% but given how big of a failure TLJ was financially falling repeatedly below even Disney's conservative estimates and the aggressive contracting to force theater owners to air it twice as long over the usual rate, this has the net effect of strengthening cinema/theater owners.  But either way they definitely take more than 1% of the profit. Anyway from what I understand:
> 
> - First to second week the production/developer takes 70% to 80% of the profit
> - After that initial period into the third or fourth weeks, the take on the ticket money for the movie becomes 60% to 70% for theater
> ...



I guess it's possible that he was using the 1% as an example. I tried looking it up but even though some people agree that after awhile, the theater gets the majority of the gross, but I can't find any numbers. Would be interesting to find out specific numbers, but it probably varies from film to film.

And yeah, my "Black Panther" experience was also filled with Disney trailers. I suppose it won't matter eventually, as Disney will eventually own everything.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> What is it with people on this site and arguing about box office sales?


Considering Disney might sacrifice the brand for it's streaming service, it is relevant.


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## Gaiash (Feb 25, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Considering Disney might sacrifice the brand for it's streaming service, it is relevant.


The arguments being made aren't though. It's mostly just two different points of view on the same numbers in different contexts.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 25, 2018)

Disney relies on merchandise sales from the movie and I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want a Rose Tico or Holdo action figure.


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## Mider T (Feb 25, 2018)

Merchandise sale doesn't have anything to do with a movie's budget, so I'm not sure why that keeps getting brought up here.  Nor does it detract from a film's success.


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Reminder to always ignore Mider T


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## Mider T (Feb 25, 2018)

Fang said:


> Reminder to always ignore Mider T


Your OBD skills are slacking.  The biggest drop tidbit was wrong boi


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Merchandise sale doesn't have anything to do with a movie's budget, so I'm not sure why that keeps getting brought up here.  Nor does it detract from a film's success.



I was talking about a movie's profitability, not its budget you dumb banana.


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## Gaiash (Feb 25, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Disney relies on merchandise sales from the movie and I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want a Rose Tico or Holdo action figure.


I don't really collect Star Wars merch but if Disney Infinity was still going sure I'd get a Rose figure.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> I was talking about a movie's profitability, not its budget you dumb banana.


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## Fang (Feb 25, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Your OBD skills are slacking.  The biggest drop tidbit was wrong boi



Wrong


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 26, 2018)

Star Wars films power rankings:

1. ESB
2. New Hope
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. RotJ
5. TFA
6. Rogue One
7. AotC
8. TPM




































5456465465464654. The Clone Wars Animated Movie










999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999. TLJ


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 26, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Star Wars films power rankings:
> 
> 1. ESB
> 2. New Hope
> ...


No Ewok movies?


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## Catalyst75 (Feb 26, 2018)

in a statement

Sounds like Snoke was busy in the Unknown Regions, and that certain truths of the Force are to be found there.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 26, 2018)

It's just too bad they couldn't spare a single line about that in the movie.


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 26, 2018)

Unless he learned how to stitch himself back together I can't say I have it in me to care about Snoke.


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## Mider T (Feb 26, 2018)

Makes a little more sense now as to why Luke spoke so confidently about what Snoke was.



> Just before the duo arrives inside of Snoke’s throne room, Rey realizes Kylo’s unbalanced emotions are about his feelings for her.



Ruh roh.



> Imperial leadership who survived the Battle of Jakku did not foresee his rise to power.



This ties into my favorite SW book series!



> Darth Sidious sensed Snoke through the Force before his death but was not sure exactly what he was sensing.



Lol but Vader missed this?


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 26, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Unless he learned how to stitch himself back together I can't say I have it in me to care about Snoke.



Darth Maul was cut in half and survived to show up in multiple cartoons.


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 26, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Darth Maul was cut in half and survived to show up in multiple cartoons.



Because Maul is actually a fan favorite. I see absolutely no reason to like Snoke.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Feb 26, 2018)

Maul was a buttmonkey, Snoke...isn't.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 26, 2018)

Snoke should be Darth Plagueis.


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## Glued (Feb 26, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Maul was a buttmonkey, Snoke...isn't.



Maul killed the main character of The Phantom Menace, mad respect.

Ah, I miss the days when we had villains we could respect.

Snoke kept Hux in a position of command, by proxy makes himself look incompetent.


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## Mider T (Feb 26, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Maul killed the main character of The Phantom Menace, mad respect.


Then he got killed by a Padawan.  They brought him back for some reason and became SW's answer to Team Rocket.


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## Gaiash (Feb 26, 2018)

Maul in Phantom Menace: A man of few words
Maul in everything else: Speaks more than anyone else in the scene

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Glued (Feb 26, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Then he got killed by a Padawan.  They brought him back for some reason and became SW's answer to Team Rocket.



Because he underestimated said Padawan. He had Obi Wan at his mercy, hanging off the edge for dear life.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Feb 26, 2018)

Obiwan also briefly tapped into the darkside in that moment.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Feb 27, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Maul in Phantom Menace: A man of few words
> Maul in everything else: Speaks more than anyone else in the scene


It never felt like he lost his gravitas.


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## Mider T (Feb 27, 2018)

Check out R2D2!


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## Suigetsu (Feb 27, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I'd get a Rose figure.


Absolutely Disgusting.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Glued (Feb 27, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Check out R2D2!


 
Most of the droid army is honestly lack luster. There was a clone wars episode where they got beaten by celtic lemurs with ropes.  

At least those rolling droids with force fields were cool as well as well as hover tanks.


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## Mider T (Feb 27, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Absolutely Disgusting.


Fat chicks need love too.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 27, 2018)

Rey arrived on Ahch-To right before Luke Skywalker donned his Jedi robes, where he was going to burn down the tree and the ancient Jedi texts.
Luke and R2-D2 searched for ancient Jedi history and lore over two decades.
Kylo Ren smiles victoriously at Rey when her escape pod lands on the Supremacy.
He says, once again, that the Skywalker lightsaber is his. Rey informs Kylo Ren that the weapon “called out” to her at Maz’s castle.
Kylo Ren saw a glimpse of Rey’s past when they touched hands.
Just before the duo arrives inside of Snoke’s throne room, Rey realizes Kylo’s unbalanced emotions are about his feelings for her.
Rey is mesmerized and fixated on Snoke’s eyes — much like the Dark Side cave on Ahch-To.
She considers looking for more answers on her past, by using Snoke’s knowledge, but resists.
Snoke arrogantly meditates about visions of the future and his own immense power.
When Snoke was young, he learned that the future is always in motion. “Be careful or die.”
Now wise and old, he realizes Force visions are often incomplete.
Snoke has murdered and destroyed legions of countless adversaries, who underestimated him in time’s past.
Snoke was an unexpected leader of the First Order.
Imperial leadership who survived the Battle of Jakku did not foresee his rise to power.
Gallius Rax, Sloane, the political lunatic Ormes Apolin or even Brendol Hux did not see this rise coming.
The Supreme Leader either killed them or arranged for their death himself. Only Armitage Hux (general Hux from _The Last Jedi_ ) is spared, but Snoke only uses him as a tool.
The rise of the First Order was more opportunistic for Snoke, and not his grand plan.
Emperor Palpatine’s contingency, Operation Cinder, was engineered to destroy the Empire upon his death and bring forth a rebirth of it, stronger than it was before. Snoke used that to his advantage, with Darth Sidious unaware that Snoke would be the one to see it through.
Darth Sidious sensed Snoke through the Force before his death but was not sure exactly what he was sensing.
After the destruction of the Empire; shipyards, laboratories, and storehouses in the Unknown Regions built up weaponry for The First Order.
The brilliance, knowledge, and foresight of Snoke rescued the First Order from many enemies.
Snoke discovered many truths about the Force in the Unknown Regions, which were waiting to be found.
Snoke respects the fact that Luke sought out the same sort of knowledge and truth on his Jedi quests.
Anakin and Luke both were instruments of the Cosmic Force.
Luke, at one point during his search for Jedi lore, connected with Snoke to gain knowledge of the Force. It’s unsure if Luke knew of Snoke’s evil intentions or not.
Snoke does not need Rey for her powers like Sidious did with Luke, but, he muses that she would have been a worthy apprentice in his past endeavors.
Even though Snoke claims that Kylo Ren has redeemed himself, his use for Kylo is over — due to his unstable nature within the Force.
Snoke contemplates that after Kylo Ren kills Rey and the Resistance is destroyed, he’ll re-think Kylo’s future or even kill him.
When Snoke reveals that he was the one to connect Rey and Kylo Ren through the Force, he notices Kylo’s surprise reaction to that very truth.
 Snoke believes Kylo Ren is capable of greatness if he entirely turns away from the Light Side.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Glued (Feb 27, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Fat chicks need love too.



I don't mind that Rose is chunky, Porkins will forever be remembered in a New Hope for dying. Rose's righteousness is annoying as hell.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Feb 27, 2018)

I liked Rose during her introductory scene, as she showcased personality and chemistry with Finn, but there did reach a point where the character became sort of statically self righteous.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Feb 27, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Feb 28, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Rey arrived on Ahch-To right before Luke Skywalker donned his Jedi robes, where he was going to burn down the tree and the ancient Jedi texts.
> Luke and R2-D2 searched for ancient Jedi history and lore over two decades.
> Kylo Ren smiles victoriously at Rey when her escape pod lands on the Supremacy.
> He says, once again, that the Skywalker lightsaber is his. Rey informs Kylo Ren that the weapon “called out” to her at Maz’s castle.
> ...


Cool story bro


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## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 28, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Cool story bro


l o r e
o
r
e

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Feb 28, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Rey arrived on Ahch-To right before Luke Skywalker donned his Jedi robes, where he was going to burn down the tree and the ancient Jedi texts.
> Luke and R2-D2 searched for ancient Jedi history and lore over two decades.
> Kylo Ren smiles victoriously at Rey when her escape pod lands on the Supremacy.
> He says, once again, that the Skywalker lightsaber is his. Rey informs Kylo Ren that the weapon “called out” to her at Maz’s castle.
> ...


this is Lucasfilm throwing a lore bone to the ugly chick who supports them (og Star Wars fans) while he courts the sexy hot chick (casual fans who really don't care) with shitty low grade movies.

the problem here being that -_who really gives a fuck about Snoke_?-


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## Gaiash (Feb 28, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It never felt like he lost his gravitas.


Oh it's not a criticism, just something I find amusing.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 1, 2018)

Another novelization leak:

_Luke explores the Cosmic Force after having reconnected with the Living Force. Rey is a clear instrument of the will of the cosmic force. He also finds Leia again in the Force. The will of the Cosmic Force was asleep after the end of the Sith and awoke during Luke's exile. Living Force is the energy of life. Cosmic Force is the will of the universe._

Well, this confirms Rey is indeed another Anakin situation.

"Darkness rises, and Light to meet it".  It seems Snoke may have been referring to this tendency of the Cosmic Force to manifest instruments of its will.
_
Before Reylo handtouching scene. Luke: "Rey, you were right. I'm coming with you." 
_
Well, shoot.


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## Glued (Mar 1, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> "Darkness rises, and Light to meet it".



Aka: She is strong because the plot demands her to be strong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Mar 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Aka: She is strong because the plot demands her to be strong.



Not to jumpstart this debate again, but can't the same be said about Luke? Or...any character who is strong? I watch a lot of kung fu movies and most of them are filled with heroes who undergo some quick training montages and become the most bad-ass fighters in the entire country...because there wouldn't be a plot without it.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 1, 2018)




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## RAGING BONER (Mar 1, 2018)

wow, she really _does_ have the cheat codes...


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## Glued (Mar 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Not to jumpstart this debate again, but can't the same be said about Luke? Or...any character who is strong? I watch a lot of kung fu movies and most of them are filled with heroes who undergo some quick training montages and become the most bad-ass fighters in the entire country...because there wouldn't be a plot without it.


Anakin at a young age had a higher midichlorian count than Master Yoda. Why, because he was literally born from the Force itself.
Luke Skywalker inherited that power from his father.

As much as I dislike midichlorians, they are an established part of the Universe.

So if Rey isn't born from the Force, if she isn't the reincarnation of some previous Jedi, if she didn't inherit it through her blood, then how is she able to do all the stuff she does.

Kylo Ren tried to interrogate her and ended up getting interrogated himself. In three tries she does a mind trick on a Storm Trooper. She has never flown a ship before, but then she flips the entire ship, and aims a jammed blaster for Finn.


Oh fuck this is straight up Sharingan from Naruto, only instead of learning instantly through watching, they learn by reading their opponent's minds.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 1, 2018)

MaREY Sue


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## MartialHorror (Mar 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Anakin at a young age had a higher midichlorian count than Master Yoda. Why, because he was literally born from the Force itself.
> Luke Skywalker inherited that power from his father.
> 
> As much as I dislike midichlorians, they are an established part of the Universe.
> ...



Because the plot demands it, obviously. 

It's sort of a difficult point to argue because her story isn't finished yet. I mean, it took 2 movies before we learned of Luke's connection to Vader. In the context of...1977(?), would you have criticized Luke for being a Mary Sue (or whatever the male equivalent is; and let's pretend that this term was a thing back then?)? 

Midichlorians weren't introduced until the prequels, right? That's four movies into Vader's story. In fact, Vader wasn't really presented as unnaturally gifted into the prequels. Powerful, absolutely, but not 'Space Jesus gone wrong' powerful. We're two movies into Rey's story and the 3rd one is supposed to provide closure, so why be annoyed by something that could simply be part of long form storytelling (which admittedly is another way of saying 'I changed my mind', which sums up SO much of Star Wars in general). 

Personally though, I'm fine with the idea of the force choosing a nobody to bring 'balance to the force'. But even the director said that Kylo could be lying about her parents. I'm curious how Kylo (or Snoke) would know they're dead in a ditch somewhere if they were nobodies and Rey doesn't know their fates. But just as we didn't know Leia was Luke's sister until "Return of the Jedi" or that Anakin was the 'chosen one' until the prequels, we don't know why Rey is so powerful yet. Once the trilogy is over and if they don't provide a good explanation, then it's worth spanking over.


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## Glued (Mar 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Because the plot demands it, obviously.
> 
> It's sort of a difficult point to argue because her story isn't finished yet. I mean, it took 2 movies before we learned of Luke's connection to Vader. In the context of...1977(?), would you have criticized Luke for being a Mary Sue (or whatever the male equivalent is; and let's pretend that this term was a thing back then?)?
> 
> ...



I have never referred to Rey as a Mary Sue, not once. And personally I think the term has lost all meaning over the years.

I consider Rey, boring.

Luke got got beaten by Tusken Raiders.
Luke was whooped in the cantina.
Luke got disrespected by Han.
Luke gets put in his place by Han.
Leia outshoots Luke against Stormtroopers.
An entire team of X-Wing fighters help Luke.
Luke is almost killed by Vader until Han shows up.
Luke gets help from Obi Wan even after death

Anakin was worse than Rey in PM. I'll admit it. However Anakin got put in his place by Dooku in the very next film. Anakin was a weak and deeply flawed character. Anakin had his legs cut off and was burned alive in lava. On top of this, the PM was bearable because Liam Neesan was the main character for that movie.

Rey, nothing happens to her. And she gets things done so quick. Its a boring story. The tale of Rey is not worth telling.

My hope is that we get a Dathomiri witch in episode 9, who can finally push Rey. A hero is only as good as his/her villain, and Rey has had it easy.

Jango Fett, Grievous, Dooku, Maul, Palpatine, Tarkin, Vader, and even Jabba straight up no-sold Luke's mind trick. Luke was like, "Buy my mind trick." Jabba was, "I ain't buying that shit bitch."

Phasma was at least more badass than Boba Fett. Tonfa Stormtrooper was also pretty good though.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 1, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I have never referred to Rey as a Mary Sue, not once. And personally I think the term has lost all meaning over the years.
> 
> I consider Rey, boring.
> 
> ...



Rey did get captured and Snoke was tossing her around with relative ease, so it's not like she hasn't been overtaken, but I do agree with some of your points. Luke was a better character from the beginning, if only because his awkwardness and inexperience had pay-offs in the first movie. Anakin getting put in his place in the 2nd film isn't an ideal comparison though as Anakin was not only Space Jesus, he had also been trained for awhile and Dooku was a master himself- something Kylo Ren is not...and for all we know, Ep 9 will end with Rey getting her legs cut off and being burned alive by lava (okay, I don't think that will happen, but point is Anakin didn't suffer that till the 3rd entry of his trilogy). 

I still don't see how anyone could find TPM bearable, as even Liam Neeson looks lost and confused as to what he's supposed to be reacting to in that movie, but I guess my like of TLJ is probably an enigma to many as well. 

But yeah, they need to do something with the villain. It's going to be difficult to make Kylo Ren seem like final villain material. When he 'struck' down Luke, my immediate thought was "Was Obi Wan force projecting this entire time?".


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 1, 2018)

rumor is that Trevorrow got fired from ep 9 because he told Rian "the hack" Jonson and that number crunching thunder-cunt KKKennedy that TLJ was complete shit...

according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Um, I think you're misrepresenting the article, lol.
> 
> But it's probably not true anyway as even if Trevorrow complained, doesn't the article also state that he was fired like three months before TLJ was released?
> 
> And please, let's not make a martyr out of the guy who made "The Book of Henry", a film that was universally agreed to be a disaster...and I'm talking a real disaster, not the 'divisive and grosses 1.3 billion' kind of disaster.


don't hate on J World because it's better than Carnosaur


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## MartialHorror (Mar 1, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> don't hate on J World because it's better than Carnosaur



*hisses*


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## dr_shadow (Mar 3, 2018)

Crucify him!


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 3, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Um, I think you're misrepresenting the article, lol.
> 
> But it's probably not true anyway as even if Trevorrow complained, doesn't the article also state that he was fired like three months before TLJ was released?
> 
> And please, let's not make a martyr out of the guy who made "The Book of Henry", a film that was universally agreed to be a disaster...and I'm talking a real disaster, not the 'divisive and grosses 1.3 billion' kind of disaster.


So i should believe Disney because he made a bad movie?


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## MartialHorror (Mar 3, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> So i should believe Disney because he made a bad movie?



As far as I know, neither side has confirmed the rumor and once again...he was fired like 2 months prior to the release of "The Last Jedi". So even if it was true that he argued over what Rian Johnson was doing, he wasn't likely fired because of it, as the movie was filmed and mostly edited by that point. THIS IS COMMON MATH PEOPLE! DON'T LET YOUR HATRED OF THIS MOVIE MAKE YOU STUPID. When he was fired, there were rumors of behind-the-scenes bad behavior that grew progressively worse (in both "Jurassic World, "Book of Henry" and during pre-production of "TLJ") and it was shortly after the failure of "Book of Henry". More than likely, the latter was responsible for being canned more than anything else. 

And all I said was not to make a martyr out of him. He's had ONE (allegedly; I haven't seen it) good movie. "Jurassic World" was a mediocre film that just happened to be a huge financial hit and "The Book of Henry" was (allegedly) bad. If he had done Star Wars, there is no evidence that he would've done anything good with it. Say what you will about Rian Johnson, he has multiple highly regarded movies under his belt ("Brick", "May", "Looper"). Up until "TLJ", his most poorly received film was "Brothers Bloom", which still got pretty solid reviews. 

Anyone who tries to take up this mantle is being silly, as the rumor is not likely true and Trevorrow is a (debatable) one-hit wonder. You must as well start making claims that Josh Trank would've saved Star Wars, because that would have about the same amount of credibility.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 3, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Crucify him!


man, fuck Rian Jonson.

fucking hack should have stuck to his lane: making mediocre indie flicks that people fawn over.


god dammit this fucking guy has me defending Jar Jar Abrams of all people...


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## Gaiash (Mar 3, 2018)

Rian Johnson has said before that he was asked "what happens next?" as the starting point for writing the movie so any plan J.J. Abrams had wasn't given to him. But of course people are going to leave that detail out so they can make Rian Johnson look bad. Also J.J. Abrams was still involved as a producer and liked the direction Rian Johnson was going in so this "poor J.J." crap is nonsense.


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## Ennoea (Mar 3, 2018)

JJ didn't care because he didn't think he'd come back to it. Idk what Disney offered him but it must be good.


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## DemonDragonJ (Mar 3, 2018)

Would someone here please provide me with a link to the _Star Wars: Rebels_ discussion thread? For some reason, it keeps vanishing, and I am not able to find it.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> As far as I know, neither side has confirmed the rumor and once again...he was fired like 2 months prior to the release of "The Last Jedi". So even if it was true that he argued over what Rian Johnson was doing, he wasn't likely fired because of it, as the movie was filmed and mostly edited by that point. THIS IS COMMON MATH PEOPLE! DON'T LET YOUR HATRED OF THIS MOVIE MAKE YOU STUPID. When he was fired, there were rumors of behind-the-scenes bad behavior that grew progressively worse (in both "Jurassic World, "Book of Henry" and during pre-production of "TLJ") and it was shortly after the failure of "Book of Henry". More than likely, the latter was responsible for being canned more than anything else.
> 
> And all I said was not to make a martyr out of him. He's had ONE (allegedly; I haven't seen it) good movie. "Jurassic World" was a mediocre film that just happened to be a huge financial hit and "The Book of Henry" was (allegedly) bad. If he had done Star Wars, there is no evidence that he would've done anything good with it. Say what you will about Rian Johnson, he has multiple highly regarded movies under his belt ("Brick", "May", "Looper"). Up until "TLJ", his most poorly received film was "Brothers Bloom", which still got pretty solid reviews.
> 
> Anyone who tries to take up this mantle is being silly, as the rumor is not likely true and Trevorrow is a (debatable) one-hit wonder. You must as well start making claims that Josh Trank would've saved Star Wars, because that would have about the same amount of credibility.


Trank made one good movie one that sucked. I like a 50% chance of him getting it right after TLJ. No i don't care if he is a jerk if he gets the job done.

Do we know when they showed the movie to him or how much he even interacted with SW creatives?


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## MartialHorror (Mar 4, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Trank made one good movie one that sucked. I like a 50% chance of him getting it right after TLJ. No i don't care if he is a jerk if he gets the job done.
> 
> Do we know when they showed the movie to him or how much he even interacted with SW creatives?



If you really think "Fantastic Four (2015)" is better than "The Last Jedi", then maybe we shouldn't even bother with this discussion. Part of his meltdown was because he was incapable of handling a big production and "Star Wars" gets much bigger budgets than "Fantastic Four". 

And I assume you mean Trevorrow for the 2nd part of your post, and my answer is 'probably'. If you believe this rumor, then he obviously was involved with the creative process enough to know that Luke and Snoke weren't going to make it. Even if you don't though, he had to be aware of what they were doing just to prepare for pre-production. I don't care how much you guys hate Disney right now, it's stupid to assume he wouldn't be included on some level, because it would take more time for him to get ready for Episode 9 and time is money in this industry.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 5, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If you really think "Fantastic Four (2015)" is better than "The Last Jedi", then maybe we shouldn't even bother with this discussion. Part of his meltdown was because he was incapable of handling a big production and "Star Wars" gets much bigger budgets than "Fantastic Four".
> 
> And I assume you mean Trevorrow for the 2nd part of your post, and my answer is 'probably'. If you believe this rumor, then he obviously was involved with the creative process enough to know that Luke and Snoke weren't going to make it. Even if you don't though, he had to be aware of what they were doing just to prepare for pre-production. I don't care how much you guys hate Disney right now, it's stupid to assume he wouldn't be included on some level, because it would take more time for him to get ready for Episode 9 and time is money in this industry.



Why should i believe that story? It's one man vs a studio so we know who has the press pull. 

Maybe he did not expected such a poor execution.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 5, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Why should i believe that story? It's one man vs a studio so we know who has the press pull.
> 
> Maybe he did not expected such a poor execution.



Let me ask you this, why are you believing the alternate story?

The answer is probably you hated the movie so are willing to believe any article back it in some way, even if it makes little sense.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Suigetsu (Mar 6, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Crucify him!


He doesnt deserve the same death that Jesus Christ had.
Just flush him into the toilet instead.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Let me ask you this, why are you believing the alternate story?
> 
> The answer is probably you hated the movie so are willing to believe any article back it in some way, even if it makes little sense.


I see franchise mismanagement and that is the speculation that seems more plausible.


The answer is probably you hated the movie so are willing to believe any article back it in some way, even if it makes little sense. 
Cause it's in my nature or something?

__________________


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## MartialHorror (Mar 6, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I see franchise mismanagement and that is the speculation that seems more plausible.
> 
> 
> The answer is probably you hated the movie so are willing to believe any article back it in some way, even if it makes little sense.
> ...



But why is that more plausible, when they canned Trank after his own failure, "Fantastic Four"? They canned Trev within months of "Book of Henry", so it's more plausible he no longer seemed bankable to them and when you consider his alleged poor behavior on "Jurassic World", they may have just decided to pull a Trank on him. 

Because we all do agree at this point that Josh Trank was canned because of his bad behavior and "Fantastic Four", right? As this all happened before Star Wars any kind of hype backlash, no one is claiming that he was screwed over because the execs don't know what they're doing? All evidence (right now) points to Trevorrow being showed the door for similar reasons.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> But why is that more plausible, when they canned Trank after his own failure, "Fantastic Four"? They canned Trev within months of "Book of Henry", so it's more plausible he no longer seemed bankable to them and when you consider his alleged poor behavior on "Jurassic World", they may have just decided to pull a Trank on him.
> 
> Because we all do agree at this point that Josh Trank was canned because of his bad behavior and "Fantastic Four", right? As this all happened before Star Wars any kind of hype backlash, no one is claiming that he was screwed over because the execs don't know what they're doing? All evidence (right now) points to Trevorrow being showed the door for similar reasons.


Why should ii agree about the reason why Trank was canned. In these mega budget stuff for example Marvel has it's own action department handling all the action scenes.

Bankable? The franchise is bankable, people do not care who makes it as long as it';s good.


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## Imagine (Mar 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Rian Johnson has said before that he was asked "what happens next?" as the starting point for writing the movie so any plan J.J. Abrams had wasn't given to him. But of course people are going to leave that detail out so they can make Rian Johnson look bad. Also J.J. Abrams was still involved as a producer and liked the direction Rian Johnson was going in so this "poor J.J." crap is nonsense.


True. Fuck both of them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MartialHorror (Mar 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Why should ii agree about the reason why Trank was canned. In these mega budget stuff for example Marvel has it's own action department handling all the action scenes.
> 
> Bankable? The franchise is bankable, people do not care who makes it as long as it';s good.



So in essence, you either just really dislike Disney or the Star Wars execs, so will automatically believe anything that might make them look bad? 

Or did you not hear about all that stuff where Trank bullied his cast, trashed the place he was staying at, isolating himself in the video village and forcing the studio to bring in Matthew Vaughn because his cut was unwatchable? Yeah, I totally would trust this guy with my $200,000,000 movie.


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## Gaiash (Mar 8, 2018)

Imagine said:


> True. Fuck both of them.


You know if this was the case for a movie you liked you'd be talking about how great it was a director was given so much freedom with a sequel to such a huge franchise and how supportive the previous director was.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 8, 2018)

Imagine said:


> True. Fuck both of them.


at least Jar Jar Abrams had the decency to only copy *1* thing that was good (New Hope), then ofc ruin it with shallow, shit characters nobody liked, will remember or identify with...

Rian _Hack_son (damn i'm clever) otoh tried to copy *2*, Empire and RotJ, mash them together in an unholy union and failed spectacularly.
He made a 10 hour movie (it _was_ 10 hours right?) where next to nothing happened...and_ what did happen _was complete nonsensical garbage that feels totally disconnected from the previous movie that canonically finished 5 minutes before this one starts.

What. A. World-class. Shitter.


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## Gaiash (Mar 8, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> then ofc ruin it with shallow, shit characters nobody liked, will remember or identify with...


What are you talking about? Plenty of people like and identify with the characters from the new trilogy.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> What are you talking about? Plenty of people like and identify with the characters from the new trilogy.


which one: the thirst ridden space janitor used for comedic relief, the new girl who magically knows everything, the angry child who wants to kill people or the fighter pilot that wasn't meant to survive the first movie?

personally, I identify the most with BB-8...that little balls comedic timing is on point!


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## Glued (Mar 8, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> at least Jar Jar Abrams had the decency to only copy *1* thing that was good (New Hope), then ofc ruin it with shallow, shit characters nobody liked, will remember or identify with...
> 
> Rian _Hack_son (damn i'm clever) otoh tried to copy *2*, Empire and RotJ, mash them together in an unholy union and failed spectacularly.
> He made a 10 hour movie (it _was_ 10 hours right?) where next to nothing happened...and_ what did happen _was complete nonsensical garbage that feels totally disconnected from the previous movie that canonically finished 5 minutes before this one starts.
> ...



Well, I did like Finn in the first movie. Sure he went through heck, but I was rooting for the underdog. In the Last Jedi...it feels like he's just there.

However you are wrong to say no one can identify with these characters. Just go to tumblr and deviantart. So the premise "No one" is wrong. Just because you personally don't like a character doesn't mean "no one" does. I don't like Sasuke Uchiha, but I understand why other people do.

Rey is a wish fulfillment character. Kylo Ren is a brooding byronic anti hero and a pathetic woobie that audience members want to comfort. Poe is a spitfire hero with a handsome face. And Rose is a fangirl self-insert who went bonkers over Finn. Finn is an underdog. Now I personally don't like the aforementioned characters anymore, but I can understand why other people might. Many of the aforementioned characters I have mentioned are tropes that one can find in Naruto and Naruto is very popular for a reason.

Replace Kylo with Itachi.
Replace Rose with Sakura or Ino.
Replace Rey with Sasuke.
Replace Poe with Kiba or Naruto.
Replace Finn with Rock Lee.

On the other hand, the fact that no one is buying Star Wars toys is a definite red flag.

This movie was targeted at teenagers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 8, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> *On the other hand, the fact that no one is buying Star Wars toys is a definite red flag*.





what?! Who doesn't want a Rose Tico action figure!?

She's so iconic as the first ugly female asian ...engineer? janitor? w/e the fuck she does....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Mar 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You know if this was the case for a movie you liked you'd be talking about how great it was a director was given so much freedom with a sequel to such a huge franchise and how supportive the previous director was.


Maybe? That's not a hypocritical thing to do? I didn't like either and have never been a fan of Abrams or Johnson.

Abrams has been pissing things for a while and Johnson's most notable work is Looper which doesn't warrant getting a shot to do SW.

Training Day is good shit, but David Ayer is a fucking hack. Ridley Scott can genuinely give you gold or hot trash at any time. You don't have to pledge loyalty to directors/screenwriters just because do good work from time to time.

JJ could have made TFA a 10/10 movie for me and I still wouldn't be a fan of his.



RAGING BONER said:


> at least Jar Jar Abrams had the decency to only copy *1* thing that was good (New Hope), then ofc ruin it with shallow, shit characters nobody liked, will remember or identify with...
> 
> Rian _Hack_son (damn i'm clever) otoh tried to copy *2*, Empire and RotJ, mash them together in an unholy union and failed spectacularly.
> He made a 10 hour movie (it _was_ 10 hours right?) where next to nothing happened...and_ what did happen _was complete nonsensical garbage that feels totally disconnected from the previous movie that canonically finished 5 minutes before this one starts.
> ...


I get it but I'm not about to act like I thought TFA was any good. Sure it was more coherent than TLJ but basic competency shouldn't be awarded.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Mar 8, 2018)

Was nominated at the Oscars for best visuals and sound mixing

Nowhere to be seen in the other categories

Great directing, writing and acting gaiz!


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## Imagine (Mar 8, 2018)

Not the TLJ deserves to suffer at the snoozefest that is the Oscars


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## Black Leg Sanji (Mar 8, 2018)

It deserves all the stick it can get


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 8, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Jek Porkins says hi
> 
> 
> Rose is a maintenance worker for the Resistance.
> ...


brother, if they had called her Rose Porkins and blown her ass out of an airlock after 5 seconds of screen time then even _I_ would have bought her 1$ bargain bin action figure...


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 8, 2018)

Just understand that a movie about a mute woman kidnapping and raping a fishman was executed and will forever be more loved than this garbage fire.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Glued (Mar 8, 2018)

Its okay to have Fat characters, Friar Tuck is one of my favorite characters in almost every incarnation of Robin Hood.

He may have been fat but he was fun and lovable and kind. Not to mention he put his duty to helping the poor over the Sheriff of Nottingham and word of Prince John.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 8, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Its okay to have Fat characters, Friar Tuck is one of my favorite characters in almost every incarnation of Robin Hood.
> 
> He may have been fat but he was fun and lovable and kind. Not to mention he put his duty to helping the poor over the Sheriff of Nottingham and word of Prince John.



Fat characters can be great. The Kingpin is my favorite villain for instance. But Rose didn't have any real redeeming qualities. She put her fangirl crush over the lives of the resistance. She did some dumb SJW crap in the middle of an important mission and probably got all those slave kids extra beatings as a result. Her personality was as retched as her appearance.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Glued (Mar 8, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Fat characters can be great. The Kingpin is my favorite villain for instance. But Rose didn't have any real redeeming qualities. She put her fangirl crush over the lives of the resistance. She did some dumb SJW crap in the middle of an important mission and probably got all those slave kids extra beatings as a result. Her personality was as retched as her appearance.



She can still be saved, just say that she was emotionally unstable due to the death of her sister and everything will be alright.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You not liking these characters isn't the same thing as no one liking them.


I'll be honest; I liked Finn...until i realized what he _really_ was...


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## MartialHorror (Mar 8, 2018)

I think people wouldn't care that Finn is a janitor if he wasn't so...goofy about it? 

I mean, what was Luke? A farmer of some sort? There's nothing wrong with being a janitor, but the issue was that his janitor status was part of a punchline. I don't really care myself, although I feel like Finn's Storm Trooper background should make him less...naive? Especially as Rey is already naive. And Rose is naive...and in a way, Poe is naive too...

OK, this might be a flaw. The original trilogy made Luke naive, but everyone else kind of balanced him out. Here, everyone acts like teenagers, when they should act more like adults because even if they're that young, they've been through too much shit to behave this way.


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## Glued (Mar 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I think people wouldn't care that Finn is a janitor if he wasn't so...goofy about it?
> 
> I mean, what was Luke? A farmer of some sort? There's nothing wrong with being a janitor, but the issue was that his janitor status was part of a punchline. I don't really care myself, although I feel like Finn's Storm Trooper background should make him less...naive? Especially as Rey is already naive. And Rose is naive...and in a way, Poe is naive too...



Naivety is a very harmless flaw, Superman was naive about humanity. It is a flaw like being too good for this world or clumsy. Its not a flaw that can make the character be viewed in a negative light, unless you are Ned Stark. Ned really F'ed up things for his whole family and his homeland with his naivety. Hell he F'ed up things for the entire realm.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 8, 2018)

Finn literally didn't have a name a week ago and was on his first field mission in TFA , so he should be naive. It's ridiculous when battle hardened and worldly people like Poe or Rey are naive when they've spent their entire lives fighting to survive.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 8, 2018)

I didn't mean that naivety is a flaw, but it's kind of...static, when the entirety of your (younger) cast is portrayed as naive, even when they've grown up in critical conflict. 

Luke was sheltered. It makes sense for him to be naive. Rey has spent her life struggling to survive. Finn was a Storm Trooper (and child soldier?). Rose has been in the Resistance for awhile. Poe is one of its primary leaders.

I just feel like there should be some (younger) world weary or cynical characters to off-set the naivety of the rest.


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## Glued (Mar 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I didn't mean that naivety is a flaw, but it's kind of...static, when the entirety of your (younger) cast is portrayed as naive, even when they've grown up in critical conflict.
> 
> Luke was sheltered. It makes sense for him to be naive. Rey has spent her life struggling to survive. Finn was a Storm Trooper (and child soldier?). Rose has been in the Resistance for awhile. Poe is one of its primary leaders.
> 
> I just feel like there should be some (younger) world weary or cynical characters to off-set the naivety of the rest.



The reason they all behave like naive teenagers or those who have not outgrown their teenage youth is because that is the target demographic


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## dr_shadow (Mar 10, 2018)

Apparently it's finally out of theatres in Hong Kong now.

It grossed $6 million here. For a population of, interestingly, 7 million people. Meaning that each Hongkongese person contributed on average $0.85.

By contrast it's so far grossed $619 million in the U.S., which has a population of 325 million. Meaning each American contributes on average $1.90.

Americans are more than twice as interested in Star Wars as Hongkongese are.

But the worst is of course that in mainland China it made only $42 million on a population of 1,403 million, meaning $0.02 per Chinese person. TWO CENTS!!! If Chinese people had the same proportional interest in Star Wars as Americans have, it_ should_ have made $2.6 billion in China ($1.9x1403), which is more than The Force Awakens made worldwide...


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 11, 2018)

@mr_shadow You once mentioned you never got the Original Trilogy in China, IIRC.

There's a heavy nostalgia factor for Star Wars, admittedly (and that nostalgia can get toxic).


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## Skaddix (Mar 11, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> @mr_shadow You once mentioned you never got the Original Trilogy in China, IIRC.
> 
> There's a heavy nostalgia factor for Star Wars, admittedly (and that nostalgia can get toxic).



Well that is the problem this Nostalgia Focused but if you looked at a Top 10 list of what you wanna see Luke do in a ST do they do a single fucking thing a Luke Fan would want? How about  a Han Solo Fan? A Leia Fan? Mary Poppins Flying? 

So they fuck half assed


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## dr_shadow (Mar 11, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> @mr_shadow You once mentioned you never got the Original Trilogy in China, IIRC.
> 
> There's a heavy nostalgia factor for Star Wars, admittedly (and that nostalgia can get toxic).



Yep. In Communist China you weren't allowed to watch American films until 1994 (!).

So the first Star Wars to get any kind of release in China was the prequels, I think, but then only in a limited number of theaters.

Most Chinese had never seen any Star Wars before The Force Awakens.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I didn't mean that naivety is a flaw, but it's kind of...static, when the entirety of your (younger) cast is portrayed as naive, even when they've grown up in critical conflict.
> 
> Luke was sheltered. It makes sense for him to be naive. Rey has spent her life struggling to survive. Finn was a Storm Trooper (and child soldier?). Rose has been in the Resistance for awhile. Poe is one of its primary leaders.
> 
> I just feel like there should be some (younger) world weary or cynical characters to off-set the naivety of the rest.


Sheltered?

He probably worked at the farm at 12, raced speeders, probably had little formal education. he was just a good guy.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 11, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Sheltered?
> 
> He probably worked at the farm at 12, raced speeders, probably had little formal education. he was just a good guy.



I mean from the standpoint of how the the Galaxy worked, considering how much had to be explained to him. I wasn't saying he never left the farm, but wasn't when he left with Obi-Wan the first time he left the planet? He also seemed like a fish-out-of-water at the Cantina.  And I doubt his Aunt and Uncle got into any detail about the rest of the Universe. He's the Space equivalent of a small town farm boy seeing the big city for the first time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## reiatsuflow (Mar 11, 2018)

Late to the notparty. I thought I'd enjoy this movie because I'm not a star wars guy and star wars fans seem the most disappointed, but Last Jedi made Force Awakens look a lot better in comparison. Lot of promise in the luke/kylo/rey storyline. Scenes with kylo and rey interacting were particularly good, and the director did the great job communicating the tricky bit of their force connection mind meld. If I had only watched the scenes with these characters, snoke included, I'd be happy.

smh at all of the rest

Laura dern, what have you done?


*Spoiler*: __ 



to be fair to finn, if I was a little kid he'd be my favorite character


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## dr_shadow (Mar 11, 2018)

Kind of surprised the iTunes release is March 27, when the movie is still in theatres with two weeks to go.

Don't they usually leave a gap of like six months between the last theatre closing and the home video release, to let demand build up?


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## MartialHorror (Mar 11, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Kind of surprised the iTunes release is March 27, when the movie is still in theatres with two weeks to go.
> 
> Don't they usually leave a gap of like six months between the last theatre closing and the home video release, to let demand build up?



No. I think they used to do it that way, but they haven't been that patient for awhile, maybe because of the rise of VOD and streaming. If you compare the release dates of both TFA and TLJ, they're pretty close, as TFA came out early April on DVD/Blu Ray.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I think people wouldn't care that Finn is a janitor if he wasn't so...goofy about it?


Finn being a janitor wasn't a problem; the problem is that the only ever revealed Storm Trooper turns out to be a cowardly janitor, oh and he's black...how "progressive" of this new Star Wars.
Now, Finn was a coward; he was also used for coonery humor in TLJ and conveniently mopped the floors of both the weak point of the StarKiller base AND the Supremacy. 

plus he was also deceptively used to lure in black folks by making it seem he would be a Jedi. 

His story with filler azn girl in TLJ is completely worthless, pointless and intellectually as well as morally insulting.

His disgusting treatment by whoever is in charge of this shitshow_THAT is what is offensive about his character.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## ~VK~ (Mar 12, 2018)

i still can't take people who champion this movie for it's "diversity" serious when a 90's era stereotype character like finn exists in it.

nah, finn's worse than most stereotype characters cause at the very least with them there was no bait and switch and you got what was advertised; a goofy ^ (learn some history) sidekick.

nah, the worst crime is prolly the sheer wasted potential. there are so many things that could've been done with this character that it's infuriating to see what he's become.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mider T (Mar 12, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Naivety is a very harmless flaw, Superman was naive about humanity. It is a flaw like being too good for this world or clumsy. Its not a flaw that can make the character be viewed in a negative light, unless you are Ned Stark. Ned really F'ed up things for his whole family and his homeland with his naivety. Hell he F'ed up things for the entire realm.


Yeah Ned's actions (or inaction rather) caused the deaths of thousands and threw the entirety of Westeros into disarray.  The only bad thing that came to the realm that wasn't a result of his actions were the events on the Wall, although one could argue had he not killed the deserter crows and instead heeded their warnings he could have convinced Robert to better supply the Night's Watch.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 12, 2018)




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## ~VK~ (Mar 12, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Probably need a different actor. i don't get a good leader of soldiers vibe from Finn's actor.


or maybe you don't get that vibe because he's been given the role of a fool?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 12, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> or maybe you don't get that vibe because he's been given the role of a fool?


Any movie in which he played that role and did well?


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## Gaiash (Mar 12, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Probably need a different actor. i don't get a good leader of soldiers vibe from Finn's actor.


I guess you haven't seen Attack the Block.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 12, 2018)

Boyega may not be a handsome guy; but he's got acting range when given something to work with...

Same with Oscar Isaac who is also wasted in this movie with its shitty B-plot.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 12, 2018)

Wasn't Oscar Isaac's character supposed to die early in TFA? I heard he was intended to be a red herring, but would perish when he and Finn's ship crash, leading to Finn taking up his mantle...which would be kind of weird considering Finn was more-or-less a red herring for Rey. 

That might be why TLJ struggled with giving him more to do, as the Holdo thing could've easily been omitted and the story would not have changed at all. He simply wasn't in the original trilogy plans. People say that Finn's plot-line also could've been omitted, but I disagree as even if it was one of the weaker elements of the story, it did fit into the movies themes and had a real pay-off. Poe's storyline did not.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 12, 2018)

Finn should be a Jedi.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> People say that Finn's plot-line also could've been omitted, but I disagree as even if it was one of the weaker elements of the story, it did fit into the movies themes and had a real pay-off. Poe's storyline did not.


It not paying off was part of that overall narrative of failure. His mutiny failed.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 13, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Finn should be a Jedi.



I've personally theorized that possibility, including having it as an explanation for how Finn broke through the First Order's conditioning - his Force sensitivity caused him to react to the death of the people in the village and broke his loyalty to the Order.  Furthermore, he was hearing the screams of the people of the Hosnian system right before they all died, which shouldn't be possible unless he was Force-sensitive.  Like Obi-Wan, he heard millions of voices cry out in terror, before they were suddenly silenced.


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## dr_shadow (Mar 13, 2018)

Maybe in the Abrams continuity he's a Jedi, but not in the Johnson continuity he ain't.


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## dr_shadow (Mar 13, 2018)

The Force Awakens came out on home media on April 5, but it didn't get pulled from theaters until June 2.

...people still went to see it in the theatre for two months after they could have watched it at home.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 13, 2018)

There's not enough evidence for that. The only sign that Finn might be force sensitive is when Kylo Ren seems to sense something from him in TFA and maybe the fact that he's able to briefly hold off Ren in a light saber duel. 

But let's face it, Finn being a Jedi would only be a distraction by this point. Even as a fan of these movies, I do find myself wishing that Finn was the real protagonist, Jedi or not. It would've been interesting seeing a Storm Trooper become the protagonist, but even if he wasn't a Jedi, it would've been unique to see the protagonist not be force sensitive. I wouldn't mind seeing the Jedi in a supporting role. 

But as is, Finn being a jedi adds nothing to the story.


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## ~VK~ (Mar 13, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> I've personally theorized that possibility, including having it as an explanation for how Finn broke through the First Order's conditioning - his Force sensitivity caused him to react to the death of the people in the village and broke his loyalty to the Order.  Furthermore, he was hearing the screams of the people of the Hosnian system right before they all died, which shouldn't be possible unless he was Force-sensitive.  Like Obi-Wan, he heard millions of voices cry out in terror, before they were suddenly silenced.


literally everyone except kennedy and johnson theorized that possibility.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Mar 13, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> literally everyone except kennedy and johnson theorized that possibility.


At first I thought you meant JFK and LBJ


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 13, 2018)

JFK and LBJ's corpses probably could've wrote a better script.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 14, 2018)

Amol said:


> Luke's death on the other hand bothered me somewhat. I feel like he deserved a death akin to that off Whitebeard. The amount of respect Whitebeard received from Oda is what Luke should have received from Director of this film.
> His death lacked... epicness I guess


See I like that fact. If Luke did leave to fight Kylo for real one of two things would have happened. Either he'd have to finally kill him or get killed by him, neither being good scenarios. Instead he distracts Kylo, has a moment with his sister and then dies peacefully inspiring the next generation of force users.



Amol said:


> Kylo Ren is interesting character but shit villain and that is huge problem when he is apparently the villain of this saga.
> He comes off whiny teenager whose parent took away his phone. This 'teenager' is just burning the world down with his tantrum.


But that's exactly what makes him a great villain. He's a short tempered brat who thinks highly of himself with power. He's out of control and by the end of the film has even more power than he had before.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 14, 2018)

Kylo Ren is not a good villain. He got beat up by a girl and then he got beat up(symbolically) by a projection that can't even touch him. Villains are threatening and give you a sense of danger. Ren is a runt that gets beat up every step of the way but we're still suppose to think he's a threat to everyone. 

He's kinda like Sasuke.


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## Skaddix (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Kylo Ren is not a good villain. He got beat up by a girl and then he got beat up(symbolically) by a projection that can't even touch him. Villains are threatening and give you a sense of danger. Ren is a runt that gets beat up every step of the way but we're still suppose to think he's a threat to everyone.
> 
> He's kinda like Sasuke.



Yes but the Sauce actually had a motivation for going Dark Side.....Kylo though what is his motivation Mommy and Daddy worked away from home too much?


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## Gaiash (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Kylo Ren is not a good villain. He got beat up by a girl and then he got beat up(symbolically) by a projection that can't even touch him. Villains are threatening and give you a sense of danger. Ren is a runt that gets beat up every step of the way but we're still suppose to think he's a threat to everyone.
> 
> He's kinda like Sasuke.


You mean the fight that happened after he got shot with a weapon the movie made clear does a lot of damage? The fight where he's punching himself in the wound to keep himself from passing out? The fight that happened after just having ANOTHER lightsaber fight? The fight he had shortly after killing his father? The fight with another character who is also strong with the force? The fight he was actually winning for most of it? The fight where his loss is a thing he's mocked for in the next movie?

Kylo is threatening and does give a sense of danger, it's just a very different danger from other Star Wars villains and he's not threatening all the time. He makes us laugh with his tantrums until we see how dangerous they can be to the person he's pissed off at. And now he doesn't have Snoke and Hux holding him back, he does what he wants and all Hux can do is watch.


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## reiatsuflow (Mar 14, 2018)

I thought emo was when conflicted and emotional young people are conflicted and emotional for dumb reasons, like having homework due or needing to take out the trash or not liking the new step dad because he told me to turn my music down and HE'S NOT MY REAL FATHER.

The young men we're all talking about are emotional, angry and conflicted from totally horrific and serious situations. It makes sense for kylo and sasuke to be angry, emotional, conflicted.

I sometimes find that annoying too for its own reasons, but it depends on the actor. If the guy who played anakin skywalker played kylo, I probably wouldn't like kylo either.


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## dr_shadow (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Kylo Ren is not a good villain. He got beat up by a girl and then he got beat up(symbolically) by a projection that can't even touch him. Villains are threatening and give you a sense of danger. Ren is a runt that gets beat up every step of the way but we're still suppose to think he's a threat to everyone.
> 
> He's kinda like Sasuke.



"Beat up by a girl" is sexist. 

Stick to "beat up by someone who had never held a lightsaber".


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 14, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> "Beat up by a girl" is sexist.
> 
> Stick to "beat up by someone who had never held a lightsaber".



He got beat up by chick and a janitor that never held a lightsaber. So shameful.


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## dr_shadow (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> He got beat up by chick that never held a lightsaber. So shameful.



Obi-Wan got beat by a cripple.

Luke got beat by a cripple.

Dooku got beat by a midget.

Three fit Jedi Masters got beaten by an elderly politician.

(An entire legion of the Emperor's best troops got beat by midget teddy bears using stone-age tech)

Has Star Wars ever cared about physical differences before? Isn't part of the point of the Force that they don't matter? "Judge me by my size, do you?"


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 14, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Obi-Wan got beat by a cripple.
> 
> Luke got beat by a cripple.
> 
> ...



Well, the moment Anakin lost all his limbs he went from from Chosen One to most hated man in the galaxy and Palpatine gave him bad cybernetic parts to punish him. Maybe the Sith hate the disabled.


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> He got beat up by chick and a janitor that never held a lightsaber. So shameful.



_The Last Jedi _pointed out that Chewbacca's bowcaster shot should have killed Kylo Ren instantly, but he was able to contain the energy of the bolt with the Force.  In other words, the shot was debilitating enough to cripple Kylo Ren's fighting capability (he performs better against four Praetorians than Rey does against only two), but otherwise would have been fatal.


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## Gaiash (Mar 14, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> He got beat up by chick and a janitor that never held a lightsaber. So shameful.


Ok first he won against Finn to the point he was knocked out until the next movie but as for Rey did you ever pay attention to the way she uses the lightsaber in that fight? I did my second and third time and what you notice is she's using it a lot like a staff, her weapon of choice at the start of the movie. A lot of forward and downward strikes and because of this Kylo has the upper hand because he has more experience with a lightsaber. He's also not trying to kill her, he wants her to be his apprentice so he's only trying to overpower her which he can't do because he's about to pass out from getting shot and all this lightsaber fighting is exhausting. Rey wins because she's in much better shape, it has nothing to do with her ability with a lightsaber.

And as Catalyst75 pointed out in The Last Jedi you see a healthy Kylo Ren who is no longer feeling conflicted fight opponents that use their weapon of choice and he slaughters them.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 14, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> _The Last Jedi _pointed out that Chewbacca's bowcaster shot should have killed Kylo Ren instantly, but he was able to contain the energy of the bolt with the Force.  In other words, the shot was debilitating enough to cripple Kylo Ren's fighting capability (he performs better against four Praetorians than Rey does against only two), but otherwise would have been fatal.



Chewie should have a bigger role in these films tbh. Kind of a shame Rey just steals the Millennium Falcon from him.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 15, 2018)

I used to really enjoy this threat, warts and all, but I feel like the same arguments are being rehashed over and over again...in a neverending loop...and I swear these are the same people.


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## Gaiash (Mar 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I used to really enjoy this threat, warts and all, but I feel like the same arguments are being rehashed over and over again...in a neverending loop...and I swear these are the same people.


That's because they are. Someone complains about something in the film and the solution to their problem comes from going into more detail about that thing.


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## Glued (Mar 16, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> That's because they are. Someone complains about something in the film and the solution to their problem comes from going into more detail about that thing.



Give me one good reason why the Resistance and the Empire do not spam or abuse the Holdo Manuvre and why during the thousand years of the Old Republic it was never spammed or abused?

Logically it should be spammed, in every future encounter it should be spammed.


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## Gaiash (Mar 16, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Give me one good reason why the Resistance and the Empire do not spam or abuse the Holdo Manuvre and why during the thousand years of the Old Republic it was never spammed or abused?
> 
> Logically it should be spammed, in every future encounter it should be spammed.


Waste of resources. Plus once it's been introduced as a strategy the other side is going to figure out a counter strategy. It only worked because the First Order didn't realize what she was doing until it was too late. Also why would the Resistance spam it? The entire reason Leia demoted Poe was because he wasted pilots and resources in the attack at the start of the movie, what you're suggesting is that on a larger scale. And likewise Hux was scolded by Snoke for letting the Resistance destroy a dreadnought until he found out about the real plan.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren tried using it the way you're suggesting now that he's in command.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 16, 2018)

In Rogue One, didn't ships about to go into hyperspace just crash into Vader's ship and blow up? Obviously if you're going to kamikaze, you need ships of certain size and durability to do it.


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## Glued (Mar 16, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Waste of resources. Plus once it's been introduced as a strategy the other side is going to figure out a counter strategy. It only worked because the First Order didn't realize what she was doing until it was too late. Also why would the Resistance spam it? The entire reason Leia demoted Poe was because he wasted pilots and resources in the attack at the start of the movie, what you're suggesting is that on a larger scale. And likewise Hux was scolded by Snoke for letting the Resistance destroy a dreadnought until he found out about the real plan.
> 
> That said I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren tried using it the way you're suggesting now that he's in command.



For the price of one Mon Cala cruiser, Holdo destroyed multiple star destroyers. Imagine how much damage multiple star ships can do. Secondly how exactly do you stop a star ship ramming at the speed of light? Third you don't need a human, just use a droid and ram an empty vessel into the enemy.

Though if Kylo Ren does spam it in the next movie it is going to be awesome.

I wonder if King Lee Char is still alive or he's still canon, we could use more Mon Cala cruisers.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 16, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Give me one good reason why the Resistance and the Empire do not spam or abuse the Holdo Manuvre and why during the thousand years of the Old Republic it was never spammed or abused?
> 
> Logically it should be spammed, in every future encounter it should be spammed.



Doesn't this try into my original claim that the fandom does not want new things?

The reason why this hadn't been done before? None of the previous filmmakers or writers had thought of it. I mean, seriously...if every filmmaker has to look through 1,000 years worth of lore to make sure every idea has some historical basis, then the franchise is f@cked even more than I thought...even though continuity has never been one of its strong points, even in the original trilogy....

Edit: F@CK! Now I'm repeating myself too...This thread is like poetry, it rhymes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Mar 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Doesn't this try into my original claim that the fandom does not want new things?
> 
> The reason why this hadn't been done before? None of the previous filmmakers or writers had thought of it. I mean, seriously...if every filmmaker has to look through 1,000 years worth of lore to make sure every idea has some historical basis, then the franchise is f@cked even more than I thought...even though continuity has never been one of its strong points, even in the original trilogy....
> 
> Edit: F@CK! Now I'm repeating myself too...This thread is like poetry, it rhymes.



Its just common sense, take a big object and ram it at a very high speed.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 16, 2018)

Knowing the First Order, they probably forgot to put their shields up or something.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 16, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Its just common sense, take a big object and ram it at a very high speed.



So shouldn't you be taking shots at George Lucas and his arsenal of EU universe writers for not thinking of it first? After all, as you say, it's just common sense.


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## Glued (Mar 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So shouldn't you be taking shots at George Lucas and his arsenal of EU universe writers for not thinking of it first? After all, as you say, it's just common sense.



Indeed, the EU was filled with a lot of incredible nonsense. I honestly could not take a lot of that shit seriously. But oh dear lord they actually used it in the movie. And honestly when Obi Wan talked about Anakin's midichlorian count, I was thinking...his midichlorian count is OVER 9000!!! My contention is that putting the Holdo Maneuver in it and actually using it gives the sense of being OP, and I was glad that it was ignored for the most part in EU and it didn't have massive consequences. But that scene in the movie was so explicit that it can't be ignored.

Don't get me wrong, I was okay with Disney retconning the EU. If FA was a fresh start, alright, it was a passable movie.

I honestly hope they don't bring in Armada destroying force storms into the series.

If they address the Holdo Maneuver in the next movie, cool. If they don't, then it is just a plot hole.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 16, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Indeed, the EU was filled with a lot of incredible nonsense. I honestly could not take a lot of that shit seriously..


Problem is that Lucas was going to filter the cool stuff away from the most retarded shit. And use it for a good story. Unfortunately that didnt happen and all the good stuff was thrown away by an originaru shit fanfiction.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 17, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Doesn't this try into my original claim that the fandom does not want new things?
> 
> The reason why this hadn't been done before? None of the previous filmmakers or writers had thought of it. I mean, seriously...if every filmmaker has to look through 1,000 years worth of lore to make sure every idea has some historical basis, then the franchise is f@cked even more than I thought...even though continuity has never been one of its strong points, even in the original trilogy....
> 
> Edit: F@CK! Now I'm repeating myself too...This thread is like poetry, it rhymes.


Kotor and SWTOR is giant stage with SWTOr costing more than ans SW movie and people did not cry and moan about the Gormak, Rakata, the Sith species, The Chiss...

SW fandom is open minded toward the new if done right.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## MartialHorror (Mar 17, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Kotor and SWTOR is giant stage with SWTOr costing more than ans SW movie and people did not cry and moan about the Gormak, Rakata, the Sith species, The Chiss...
> 
> SW fandom is open minded toward the new if done right.



I have no idea what any of that means


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 17, 2018)

this shit is still going on huh?


MartialHorror said:


> I have no idea what any of that means


it means that just because OG fans didn't like your college level script which you shit out while stoned with Carrie Fisher; it doesn't imply they don't want or can't handle new things.

Rian Johnson didn't _add_ anything new of value to SW; what he_ may_ have added was stupid and contrived; and what he took away from SW was _actual_ possibilities and new story routes.

RJ limited Star Wars to something either ridiculously vapid, incredibly retarded...or worse -both-.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 18, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Problem is that Lucas was going to filter the cool stuff away from the most retarded shit. And use it for a good story. Unfortunately that didnt happen and all the good stuff was thrown away by an originaru shit fanfiction.



That's just fucking wrong from what we know about the Sequel Trilogy.

We may not ever know all the details about 7-9 that George Lucas originally planned out, but from what details have come out  we were going to get female lead who was unrelated to the original cast that who was going to be going out in search of Luke Skywalker who had gone into self-exile after his new Jedi Order had fallen apart in front of him. Those were the consistent rumors about Episode VII when Michael Ardnt script was written from the notes on the new trilogy that George Lucas left, which was about 2013 or so.

George Lucas' vission of Episode 7-9 would have been handled in a similar way to how the Prequels were handled in regards to continuity. Which is to say that the EU didn't matter, and whatever stories people wanted to tell had better conform to the movie George was wanting to make, and you can bet that most of the EU would have either been thrown out, or would have been irrelevant to the story George wanted to make.

There was also no way Chewbacca was going to stay dead, killed offscreen between movies, and there was never any plan to adapt any of the EU into a movie. Honestly from what others near the decision have said, that is probably the number 1 reason why the EU was removed any form of continuity going forward. Pretty much any chance the EU was going to be part of the continuity going forward was done at that point.


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## Xhominid (Mar 18, 2018)

People know that but you know what the difference would have been? George Lucas would have most likely made Episode 7 through 9 in a wholly different timeline than the ST has with this one.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 18, 2018)

Xhominid said:


> People know that but you know what the difference would have been? George Lucas would have most likely made Episode 7 through 9 in a wholly different timeline than the ST has with this one.



ST stands for Sequel Trilogy right?

Even in that scenario you still end up with the Expanded Universe being thrown out the window.

There was 0 chance that George Lucas' version of 7-9 was going to include the Expanded Universe in it's canon. In either case your looking at the end of the Expanded Universe continuity. Honestly taking old Yeller out back and shooting him was the best thing that could have happened for the dog at that point, and it's the best that Disney ever did for Star Wars. It had gone on for too long and had been allowed to go too far off the rails.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 19, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> this shit is still going on huh?
> 
> it means that just because OG fans didn't like your college level script which you shit out while stoned with Carrie Fisher; it doesn't imply they don't want or can't handle new things.
> 
> ...



lol, I can never really debate with you because you make no substantial points. All of your posts are 99% insults towards the director, which I can't really respond to...unless I say "That's what your Mom said...last night!" But then I have to wonder why your Mom would interrupt our love making sessions to talk about Rian Johnson and Star Wars. It's MY Johnson we're supposed to be talking about! AM I REALLY SO UNSATISFYING!? Wait...what was I talking about again? 

I don't know if I've asked you this before, but are you a fan of the prequels? Cause 'Darth Vader being a fallen Space Jesus' seemed more stupid and contrived to me...and that's not even as stupid and contrived as him building C3PO and encountering R2D2...or Yoda knowing Chewie. The entire Galaxy is the setting, but everyone is apparently connected in some absurd way.

So why is "TLJ" worse in that way?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 19, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, I can never really debate with you because you make no substantial points. All of your posts are 99% insults towards the director, which I can't really respond to...unless I say "That's what your Mom said...last night!" But then I have to wonder why your Mom would interrupt our love making sessions to talk about Rian Johnson and Star Wars. It's MY Johnson we're supposed to be talking about! AM I REALLY SO UNSATISFYING!? Wait...what was I talking about again?
> 
> I don't know if I've asked you this before, but are you a fan of the prequels? Cause 'Darth Vader being a fallen Space Jesus' seemed more stupid and contrived to me...and that's not even as stupid and contrived as him building C3PO and encountering R2D2...or Yoda knowing Chewie. The entire Galaxy is the setting, but everyone is apparently connected in some absurd way.
> 
> So why is "TLJ" worse in that way?


It was stupid that was reverent toward what came before and by accident the EU.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So why is "TLJ" worse in that way?



The prequels didnt feature character assasinations. Nor out of character portrayals. They also made sense and where planned.
TLJ however basically shoves murrican political agendas down your throad, it's not pleasing to watch, it's cringe worthy, boring, and just heart shattering. TLJ nor any disney movie can really be called a SW film.
Hate it or like it but what made SW it's the way Lucas brain cogs worked and that cant be replaced.

Also the prequels had pretty good fighting coreography, meanwhile the one in TLJ was fucking shit filled with mistakes.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

strongarm85 said:


> That's just fucking wrong from what we know about the Sequel Trilogy.


What you are describing where not George's ideas, Because they never took them. You just described a literal draft to the force awakens.

Lucas was a business man, he knows cool shit and waifus sell. Mara Jade and Jaina where top tier waifus and they where very liked by the female fans too. Do you know what made the franchise move? the merchandise.
Seriously think for a moment, what would your kids rather buy. The toy of Luke's wife which is a badass hot redhead jedi? Or fucking rose tico?
Besides look at the bishojous of Mara and Jaina that came out just before the deal went on. Lucas was a splendid idea man.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> What you are describing where not George's ideas, Because they never took them. You just described a literal draft to the force awakens.
> 
> Lucas was a business man, he knows cool shit and waifus sell. Mara Jade and Jaina where top tier waifus and they where very liked by the female fans too. Do you know what made the franchise move? the merchandise.
> Seriously think for a moment, what would your kids rather buy. The toy of Luke's wife which is a badass hot redhead jedi? Or fucking rose tico?
> Besides look at the bishojous of Mara and Jaina that came out just before the deal went on. Lucas was a splendid idea man.



The early draft of Episode VII everyone was talking about was based on George Lucas' notes that Michael Ardnt wrote the first script for. That script was thrown out the window, but what we know about that script makes it incompatible with the Luke Skywalker from the Expanded Universe because even in that version Luke's Jedi Academy has failed and dark forces are taking over the Galaxy again.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

strongarm85 said:


> The early draft of Episode VII everyone was talking about was based on George Lucas' notes that Michael Ardnt wrote the first script for. That script was thrown out the window, but what we know about that script makes it incompatible with the Luke Skywalker from the Expanded Universe because even in that version Luke's Jedi Academy has failed and dark forces are taking over the Galaxy again.


According to this interview it doesnt seem like he was using Georges ideas at all:


Like I said, they rejected them before Georgie even got to tell them at the metting, from the very beggining. And the fact that this drafts had no feet nor legs it's raw proof of it. Lucas had already mapped 6 movies. Do proper research before bringing stuff to me please, otherwise we wont go nowhere.

And besides I said what I said about Jaina and Mara because I heard this from a very VERY trustful source, but I aint opening my mouth about it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Mar 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> The prequels didnt feature character assasinations. Nor out of character portrayals. They also made sense and where planned.
> TLJ however basically shoves murrican political agendas down your throad, it's not pleasing to watch, it's cringe worthy, boring, and just heart shattering. TLJ nor any disney movie can really be called a SW film.
> Hate it or like it but what made SW it's the way Lucas brain cogs worked and that cant be replaced.
> 
> Also the prequels had pretty good fighting coreography, meanwhile the one in TLJ was fucking shit filled with mistakes.



They made Anakin a whiny little bitch, were filled with holes that made little to no sense and it was so overchoreographed that most of the maneuvers had absolutely no pragmatic function. Even though everyone remembers the Maul fight fondly, it always looked like they're play fighting as none of the strikes had any weight behind them. Are you sure you're not just latching onto nostalgia?



Suigetsu said:


> According to this interview it doesnt seem like he was using Georges ideas at all:
> 
> 
> Like I said, they rejected them before Georgie even got to tell them at the metting, from the very beggining. And the fact that this drafts had no feet nor legs it's raw proof of it. Lucas had already mapped 6 movies. Do proper research before bringing stuff to me please, otherwise we wont go nowhere.
> ...



You know, with all of this George Lucas worship the detractors seem to be on, they seem to be overlooking that he liked TLJ, when he didn't care for TFA. Then again, he also initially did give approval to TFA, so maybe he'll revoke his positive mention of TLJ. 

As for whether they stuck to his notes or not, we really don't know how many notes there were. The only thing that we know a face is that Lucas's treatment had its main characters be kids, not teenagers. In the 'making of the Phantom Menace', his first draft apparently had it's climactic fight written as 'They fight'.

So it's very possibly Lucas's notes were too vague to support an entire film, hence, the writer having to come up with his own stuff...and really, who cares? It would've been stupid for Disney to follow the EU, especially if it contained things like Chewbacca dying. Can you imagine a casual fine- such as myself- reacting to Chewie in essence...dying off-screen? The new movies will have their own EU. Years from now when the franchise dies and is rebooted, there will be a 3rd EU. But that stuff will all always be optional.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 21, 2018)

I think this defense of the prequels from people that didn't like The Last Jedi is because they've time to look back and think "maybe we were a bit harsh on the prequels". The Last Jedi is still a new movie, their opinions on it are still fresh in their minds.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> They made Anakin a whiny little bitch, were filled with holes that made little to no sense and it was so overchoreographed that most of the maneuvers had absolutely no pragmatic function. Even though everyone remembers the Maul fight fondly, it always looked like they're play fighting as none of the strikes had any weight behind them. Are you sure you're not just latching onto nostalgia?


Teenage kid throwing tantrums, sounds familiar to what you are trying to defend? Except anakin had a good reason, he was a teenager with a shit ton of issues inlcuding the whole mother business.
“Over choreographed? What the fuck is even that? This is when I know you are being biased as fuck. Sorry pal but that aint an argument, would rather have something over planned than something that looks half assed and with mistakes.

Nope not nostalgia, I actually know what I am talking about without having to be biased. Also what "holes" are you talking about?" go on, explain them.



> You know, with all of this George Lucas worship the detractors seem to be on, they seem to be overlooking that he liked TLJ, when he didn't care for TFA. Then again, he also initially did give approval to TFA, so maybe he'll revoke his positive mention of TLJ.


Dude, Lucas had to retrive his “white slaver comments” you seriously cant be that naive and clearly you dont know how the game in hollywood rolls. Why do you think james cameron says he liked movies that where rubbish?  Just because his name was in the credits. You never diss someone elses movie “if your name is on the credits or you are involved to a certian extent" or you can get legaly fucked or basically throw possible business relations outside of the window " did that ever crossed your mind?

At this point you seem like a franchise apologist to me.


> As for whether they stuck to his notes or not, we really don't know how many notes there were. The only thing that we know a face is that Lucas's treatment had its main characters be kids, not teenagers. In the 'making of the Phantom Menace', his first draft apparently had it's climactic fight written as 'They fight'.


 These are all assumptions since you got zero evidence, we know absolutely nothing about Georges ideas. And by kids you mean teenage kids?

Comparing “they fight” which is left in blank so that the story boarders can have creative control to actual story notes, Seriously?... do you even have common movie making sense?



> It would've been stupid for Disney to follow the EU, especially if it contained things like Chewbacca dying. Can you imagine a casual fine- such as myself- reacting to Chewie in essence...dying off-screen? The new movies will have their own EU. Years from now when the franchise dies and is rebooted, there will be a 3rd EU. But that stuff will all always be optional.


You seriously lack creativity in the proper department. What part did you miss about “distilling the good ideas and re-use them as a curator?” And honestly you think Disney's shit isnt any dumber?

Sorry but you have no argument at all. Casual my ass, you parade all the place with your “I am le monster movie critic cinephile” and seem to know pretty well what happens in the EU.

What you are doing it’s called shilling and it’s shameful.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I think this defense of the prequels from people that didn't like The Last Jedi is because they've time to look back and think "maybe we were a bit harsh on the prequels". The Last Jedi is still a new movie, their opinions on it are still fresh in their minds.


Unm no.
Character assasinations. Breaking universe rules, bad writting, bad acting, bad production, bad art direction, annoying characters and copy pasting projects. Movies that have done that remain forever shunned. Just look at jurassic park 3.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Unm no.
> Character assasinations. Breaking universe rules, bad writting, bad acting, bad production, bad art direction, annoying characters and copy pasting projects. Movies that have done that remain forever shunned. Just look at jurassic park 3.



What's the bigger mistake...Rian Johnson's script or the Spinosaurus?

I now realize they treated the T-rex in JP3 as badly as they treated Luke in TLJ.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> What's the bigger mistake...Rian Johnson's script or the Spinosaurus?
> 
> I now realize they treated the T-rex in JP3 as badly as they treated Luke in TLJ.


And both had the same producer, really makes you think.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I don't know if I've asked you this before, but are you a fan of the prequels? Cause 'Darth Vader being a fallen Space Jesus' seemed more stupid and contrived to me...and that's not even as stupid and contrived as him building C3PO and encountering R2D2...or Yoda knowing Chewie. The entire Galaxy is the setting, but everyone is apparently connected in some absurd way.
> 
> So why is "TLJ" worse in that way?



I am not a fan of the prequels outside of a few action scenes -but- i recognize that GL had some good ideas, that with the proper controls and direction could have made something great. 
also, in very few parts of the prequels and the OT does the plot veer toward the nonsensical (as most movies are guilty of).

TLJ disregards everything that came before it...i'm not talking just about the OT and PT lore, i'm even taking about events that took place in TFA which canonically ends were TLJ begins.

RJ is a special kind of hack fraud -or maybe- he was so enchanted (ie drugged to the gills) by Carrie Fisher that they lost their damn minds when putting this script together.


Though, judging by his previous works, Brick and Looper, he's always been a style over substance guy...this worked in those movies because they were stand-alones. 
SW is not a stand alone...it is a series which relies on what came before it, while building toward what comes after it.

TLJ throws away what came before. While also neutering its potential to really move forward. 
I've never left a SW movie feeling so uninterested in what comes next; even during the PT. That's the most shocking thing about this movie. I simply _don't care _what happens next_. _


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## MartialHorror (Mar 21, 2018)

Okay, I'll bite.



Suigetsu said:


> Teenage kid throwing tantrums, sounds familiar to what you are trying to defend? Except anakin had a good reason, he was a teenager with a shit ton of issues inlcuding the whole mother business.



When someone says 'character assassination', it implies that the movie ruined the character. Darth Vader is an iconic villain and nobody liked seeing him reduced to a crybaby. I don't think I've ever heard anyone praise or justify Anakin's portrayal in all of the years since the films were released. I've heard a few people awkwardly concede that Hayden Christensen was unfairly maligned, as his dialogue was atrocious, but that's it. I've also heard people say that Kylo Ren was 'Anakin done right', which shows how badly the prequels bungled that characterization considering how divisive Kylo Ren is.  



> “Over choreographed? What the fuck is even that? This is when I know you are being biased as fuck. Sorry pal but that aint an argument, would rather have something over planned than something that looks half assed and with mistakes.



If you don't know what over choreographed means, maybe you shouldn't discuss this with someone who knows a lot about choreography?



> Nope not nostalgia, I actually know what I am talking about without having to be biased. Also what "holes" are you talking about?" go on, explain them.



It's very easy to say the words "I actually know what I am talking about without having to be biased", but when you try to make excuses for Vader's "character assassination", it doesn't really lend a lot of credibility to those words. Alrighty, so what are some of the holes in the prequels just based on my memory of watching them a few years prior? This is off the top of my head, but

- They put Luke into hiding...on his Fathers homeword. That makes a lot of sense. He even keeps the name.
- Jango Fett is hired to kill Padme and his plan is to...hire another assassin to do his own job. 
- Who was that guy who ordered the clone army? and why did he order the clone army?
- How did none of the Jedi notice how force sensitive Palpatine was?
- The OT says Yoda trained Obi Wan. PT says Qui Gon did.  
- They're trying to save Palpatine, but their troops keep attacking the ship he's on. 
- MAYBE not a plot hole, but Palpatine says Vader will surpass him as if that's something to gloat about, even though by Sith rules, Vader will turn on him. 
- Obi Wan and Qui Gon flee Darth Maul in Tattooine...even though they don't know they're being chased yet.
- Doesn't Leia remember her Mom in the OT? She's barely born when Padme ties in PT. 
- Lots of 'hindsight' errors (why didn't Obi Wan recognize the droids?)

For me though, the worst kind of shit in the PT is all of the stuff that leads absolutely no where. No plot relevance or character development. Like Jango Fett hiring another bounty hunter, it seems like an excuse for an action scene that hasn't aged well at all. 



> Dude, Lucas had to retrive his “white slaver comments” you seriously cant be that naive and clearly you dont know how the game in hollywood rolls. Why do you think james cameron says he liked movies that where rubbish?  Just because his name was in the credits. You never diss someone elses movie “if your name is on the credits or you are involved to a certian extent" or you can get legaly fucked or basically throw possible business relations outside of the window " did that ever crossed your mind? At this point you seem like a franchise apologist to me.



So you're saying that "You never diss a movie if your name is on the credits or you can get legally fucked or throw possible business relations out of the window", but then acknowledge his "White slaver comments"? Doesn't that sort of indicate that he doesn't give a shit? And didn't I say he might revoke his praise of TLJ anyway? How does that make me a franchise apologist? I often feel like I'm the only one who feels the fandom is strangling the franchise to death. I keep getting heat because I emphasize how the problems with the NT were present in the OT to varying degrees. But because I point out that Lucas liked TLJ, I'm an apologist? Or do you know what the word means?  



> These are all assumptions since you got zero evidence, we know absolutely nothing about Georges ideas. And by kids you mean teenage kids?
> 
> Comparing “they fight” which is left in blank so that the story boarders can have creative control to actual story notes, Seriously?... do you even have common movie making sense?



That's sort of the problem for both of us, as no one really knows what Lucas's goal was and you either have to accept the filmmakers of the NT word when they say they used some of his notes or not. Lucas says his ideas weren't used, but as you had just accused Lucas of lying (whether he did or not), we can't trust him. I did do some research here and some of the names were apparently from Lucas. I do remember the writer saying that Rey was a Lucas character. Then there is this website. 

I don't know for sure how old they were supposed to be, but I do remember someone (J.J, the writer, or Kennedy) saying Lucas's original treatment had them being younger. Then again, it would look f@cking ridiculous if a little kid burned down the Jedi temple, so who knows? This is all speculation in some form because we're going off of other peoples information. My whole point above was that no one is really sure. 

Oh and take this as you will, but I've been to film school and 'they fight' is not even first draft worthy. If you watch the behind-the-scenes documentary, even Lucas says something along the lines of "I cheated" in regards to that. 



> You seriously lack creativity in the proper department. What part did you miss about “distilling the good ideas and re-use them as a curator?” And honestly you think Disney's shit isnt any dumber?
> 
> Sorry but you have no argument at all. Casual my ass, you parade all the place with your “I am le monster movie critic cinephile” and seem to know pretty well what happens in the EU.
> 
> What you are doing it’s called shilling and it’s shameful.



Do you know how you know you're argument is shit, it's when you start making a debate personal? You're throwing attacks at me because I disagree with you about a movie. I'm not saying Disney's shit is any better. I haven't even read any of it. Or played the games. Or watched the TV shows. I don't know what are the good ideas of the EU or what the bad ones were, but I do think it's ridiculous to assume that every filmmaker assigned to these movies has to go through...how many novels, comics, video games and shows are there (?) in order to make a Star Wars movie. I've never read any of the EU material. What in my posts gave you any indication that I had? 

And how am I shilling? Did I 'shill' TLJ or Disney in my post? I attacked the prequels, said it would be foolish for Disney to use the EU (which even most Disney detractors still seem to agree with on some level) and caution about putting Lucas on a pedestal in regards to the NT when his own opinions don't seem to mesh with yours.  You need to chill the f@ck out, dude. You're not responding to my points as much as your angrily reacting to my preference towards TLJ and you're so heated that you overlooked that half of my post wasn't even at odds with you. 

But I am definitely le monster movie critic cinephile and don't you ever forget it!


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## MartialHorror (Mar 21, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> I am not a fan of the prequels outside of a few action scenes -but- i recognize that GL had some good ideas, that with the proper controls and direction could have made something great.
> also, in very few parts of the prequels and the OT does the plot veer toward the nonsensical (as most movies are guilty of).
> 
> TLJ disregards everything that came before it...i'm not talking just about the OT and PT lore, i'm even taking about events that took place in TFA which canonically ends were TLJ begins.
> ...



Okay, these are fair points and in a lot of cases like this, I'm more interested in understanding the other than side than I am in poking holes in their logic. I would argue that most of the PT was compromised of nonsensical filler, but whatever. I will agree with you that it was bizarre how TLJ changed TFA's canon and this is something I actually overlooked when I first saw the movie. Furthermore, what interests you or not is obviously something that can't be debated. Some people like things that are reviled, others hate things that are loved and TFA is certainly divisive. 

I have to question a few points here though.

- RJ is a "special kind of hack fraud", yet you seem to show some respect towards "Looper" and "Brick". I can totally understand the argument that RJ was not the right kind of filmmaker for TLJ and even I'll agree that he seems too much of a classical auteur to be doing franchise work, but does that really make him a hack or a fraud? How can you even be a fraud director? Furthermore, even if TLJ was the absolute worst Star Wars movie ever, it would be his first critically panned movie (which it wasn't), so 'hack' doesn't really fit him either. 

- It's not like the OT or the PT were really that consistent with each-other either. I mean, I would still passionately argue that none of the continuity errors in the NT are as embarrassing as Leia's "I've always known" line in regards to her brother...after being a potential romantic interest for the last 2 movies.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, I'll bite
> 
> 
> 
> When someone says 'character assassination', it implies that the movie ruined the character. Darth Vader is an iconic villain and nobody liked seeing him reduced to a crybaby.


What does iconic villian has to do with characterization? Folks with troubled youth tend to become pretty scary when they grow up.
Let's look at some characters with troubled childhoods that turned into murderous overlords shall we?
Dio Brando
Michael Myers
Jason Vorhees
Adolf Hitler
Norman Bates
Shall I go on?




> If you don't know what over choreographed means, maybe you shouldn't discuss this with someone who knows a lot about choreography?


And this comes from someone defending this?

Even the chinese, masterts of this kind of stuff criticized it for being shitty.



> It's very easy to say the words "I actually know what I am talking about without having to be biased", but when you try to make excuses for Vader's "character assassination", it doesn't really lend a lot of credibility to those words. Alrighty, so what are some of the holes in the prequels just based on my memory of watching them a few years prior? This is off the top of my head, but


This is the first time I have heard someone say Vader suffered character assasination...
Was his legacy shat on? No. At the contrary, it makes perfect sense why he turned out like that.



> - They put Luke into hiding...on his Fathers homeword. That makes a lot of sense. He even keeps the name.
> - Jango Fett is hired to kill Padme and his plan is to...hire another assassin to do his own job.
> - Who was that guy who ordered the clone army? and why did he order the clone army?
> - How did none of the Jedi notice how force sensitive Palpatine was?
> ...


None of this are plot holes. Only stupid mistakes or some others actually require you to use common sense, something that americans apparently lack a lot, to the point where they have to put posters outside of movies to explain why there will be no sound on outter space scenes.

-Jango hiring another assasin? Ever heard of mercenaries not working alone? Either you are biased to ignore this or you have never seen movies of assasins.
-Who ordered the army? How about fucking palpatine using a fake name? He orchestrated the whole thing after all.
-He did train him to commune with the jedi that had passed away, maybe you would have noticed that had you payed attention on ROTS.
-Why do they flee? To avoid conflict.
- To be fair Leia did saw her mom when she was born, but this is poor writting as opposed to a plot hole.
-How do you know he didnt recognize them?
- Some folks with truamatic experiences refuse to re-visit the place where it happened previously.



> For me though, the worst kind of shit in the PT is all of the stuff that leads absolutely no where. No plot relevance or character development. Like Jango Fett hiring another bounty hunter, it seems like an excuse for an action scene that hasn't aged well at all.


All of SW it's filled with that kind of crap but at least it was fun and showed us the setting. Unlike TLJ that you are so fond of. Which you excuse and it's even worse. The whole Rose Tiko subplot it's vomit inducing.




> So you're saying that "You never diss a movie if your name is on the credits or you can get legally fucked or throw possible business relations out of the window", but then acknowledge his "White slaver comments"? Doesn't that sort of indicate that he doesn't give a shit? And didn't I say he might revoke his praise of TLJ anyway? How does that make me a franchise apologist? I often feel like I'm the only one who feels the fandom is strangling the franchise to death. I keep getting heat because I emphasize how the problems with the NT were present in the OT to varying degrees. But because I point out that Lucas liked TLJ, I'm an apologist? Or do you know what the word means?


He had to apologize for saying those comments and backtrack them, because the mouse pointed a gun at him.

Literally just google it.


> That's sort of the problem for both of us, as no one really knows what Lucas's goal was and you either have to accept the filmmakers of the NT word when they say they used some of his notes or not. Lucas says his ideas weren't used, but as you had just accused Lucas of lying (whether he did or not), we can't trust him. I did do some research here and some of the names were apparently from Lucas. I do remember the writer saying that Rey was a Lucas character. Then there is this website.


Did he back pedal when he said Disney didnt use his ideas at all? No. And we have Mark Hamill to confirm this as well because he knew them and outright said that Disney wasnt using Georges ideas.

Also all that you said where just concept ideas by his art director, the only thing that he approved was the bell looking design for the jedi temple:

Then again it happened during the time of the sell back in 2013, so who knows if those where orders by disney.



> I don't know for sure how old they were supposed to be, but I do remember someone (J.J, the writer, or Kennedy) saying Lucas's original treatment had them being younger. Then again, it would look f@cking ridiculous if a little kid burned down the Jedi temple, so who knows? This is all speculation in some form because we're going off of other peoples information. My whole point above was that no one is really sure.


We dont know if he was going to burn the jedi temple altought I doubt it cause we know they refused to use the ideas of lucas, thus that wasnt an idea from him.



> Oh and take this as you will, but I've been to film school and 'they fight' is not even first draft worthy. If you watch the behind-the-scenes documentary, even Lucas says something along the lines of "I cheated" in regards to that.


Not saying he didnt and I wont apologise for him, but it does leave space for the story boarding and choreography team.



> Do you know how you know you're argument is shit, it's when you start making a debate personal? You're throwing attacks at me because I disagree with you about a movie. I'm not saying Disney's shit is any better. I haven't even read any of it. Or played the games. Or watched the TV shows. I don't know what are the good ideas of the EU or what the bad ones were, but I do think it's ridiculous to assume that every filmmaker assigned to these movies has to go through...how many novels, comics, video games and shows are there (?) in order to make a Star Wars movie. I've never read any of the EU material. What in my posts gave you any indication that I had?



So? Neither have I. I played some games when I was a kid and I have a basic information about the EU. I watched the cartoon mini series and that's it. Yet I understand the business model of Lucas and what makes the movies good and sell. Yet corporate suits put hacks on a leash that have no idea nor understand the source material.
If they are gonna pay you millions to do a job, then proper research is the least you can do. Good film makers are obsessive, The leash hacks are not. Lest you spend years of your life making a living turd so that you will forever be remembered as the man who ruined a franchise.



> Then your argument IS indeed shit. Because you are approaching Do you know how you know you're argument is shit, it's when you start making a debate personal? You're throwing attacks at me because I disagree with you about a movie.



If you percieve this debate as personal, then that's your insecurities talking out. I merely call out folks that talk without knowing jack squat on the subject, Because I have to correct them an inform them, making all of this a waste of my time. That's why your whole argument is useless. Sorry but I have no interest on disrespecting you - If I did I apologise - only in debating on why TLJ it's rubbish alongside it's disney spawn.



> And how am I shilling? Did I 'shill' TLJ or Disney in my post?


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> - RJ is a "special kind of hack fraud", yet you seem to show some respect towards "Looper" and "Brick". I can totally understand the argument that RJ was not the right kind of filmmaker for TLJ and even I'll agree that he seems too much of a classical auteur to be doing franchise work, but does that really make him a hack or a fraud? How can you even be a fraud director? Furthermore, even if TLJ was the absolute worst Star Wars movie ever, it would be his first critically panned movie (which it wasn't), so 'hack' doesn't really fit him either.


it's really why i'm leaning toward him and Carrie being high as fuck when they wrote this...

his comment about their "writing sessions being more like poetic jazz" (or something to that degree) made me raise an eyebrow during an interview he gave.

the guy is a great visual director, the movie is beautiful; and I've enjoyed his previous works...
but TLJ is a disastrous entry in probably the most critically important movie of the NT, and frankly smothers the last vestiges of hope many had for Disney Wars.


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## Gaiash (Mar 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Character assasinations. Breaking universe rules, bad writting, bad acting, bad production, bad art direction, annoying characters and copy pasting projects.


All things people have said about the prequels, several times.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> All things people have said about the prequels, several times.


Never have I witnessed someone saying that the prequels commited character assasinations and even if they did then they obviously dont know what the fuck they are talking about. The characters in lucas films have at least remained consistent.
The only thing that cant be defended on the prequels is bad acting.
Then again, this comes from someone sporting a Ghost busters reboot gif, so your opinion it's invalid on this matter.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Mar 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> What does iconic villian has to do with characterization? Folks with troubled youth tend to become pretty scary when they grow up.
> Let's look at some characters with troubled childhoods that turned into murderous overlords shall we?
> Dio Brando
> Michael Myers
> ...



I watched all of the "Friday the 13th" and "Halloween" movies and I never recall any flashbacks of them being angsty, whiny brats. I don't remember the Psycho sequels very well and I haven't seen the TV series, but I don't recall anything like that in the original. Your comparisons make no sense for far too many reasons, as we never saw most of them as teenagers, they were more enigmatic in whatever flashbacks we got and using real people as an example is the silliest thing you've said that. In real life, we're all whiny, bratty, angsty shits at some point, but cinema is not real life...Seriously, dude? This was about character assassinations. I have no problem with Anakin having a troubled childhood, my issue is with how he was presented on-screen, as it hurt Vader's image...

Do you even realize that by including the likes of Hitler, you've sort of defeated your own point? Or do I seriously have to make a list of 'great people' who became bitter recluses or outright villain to show how Luke's fall is not character assassination? I shouldn't have to, because it's such a ridiculous argument that I don't even think has any relevance as we are talking about storytelling, but you've opened the door. Even if I agreed with you that Luke suffered character assassination, your own logic would be telling me that he wasn't. 



> And this comes from someone defending this?
> 
> Even the chinese, masterts of this kind of stuff criticized it for being shitty.



I wasn't defending TLJ's choreography. In fact, when it first came out...I think in this threat...I wasn't sure what to make of it as I thought the visuals surrounding the choreography was really cool, but the choreography itself was odd. Why don't you go back and watch the Anakin vs Obi Wan scene or the Darth Maul fight and count how many pointless flips and twirls of the sabers there are. 



> This is the first time I have heard someone say Vader suffered character assasination...
> Was his legacy shat on? No. At the contrary, it makes perfect sense why he turned out like that.



Then you haven't been paying attention. It's one of the most controversial aspects of the latter prequels. 




> None of this are plot holes. Only stupid mistakes or some others actually require you to use common sense, something that americans apparently lack a lot, to the point where they have to put posters outside of movies to explain why there will be no sound on outter space scenes.
> 
> -Jango hiring another assasin? Ever heard of mercenaries not working alone? Either you are biased to ignore this or you have never seen movies of assasins.
> -Who ordered the army? How about fucking palpatine using a fake name? He orchestrated the whole thing after all.
> ...



Okay, you don't know what a plot hole is.
- You don't pay elite assassins to pay other assassins to do the job you've paid them for...especially when the other assassin has a ridiculously stupid plan that fails and only will make it more difficult for Jango in the future. 
- The movie never said that or explained that. 
- Wha? Both Yoda and Qui Gon were still alive at that point? What are you talking about?
- Shit excuse. They didn't know they were being chased. 
- You don't know what a plot hole is.
- That's not an answer.
- I don't know what you're responding to. 




> All of SW it's filled with that kind of crap but at least it was fun and showed us the setting. Unlike TLJ that you are so fond of. Which you excuse and it's even worse. The whole Rose Tiko subplot it's vomit inducing.



The OT had some of it, but used it in the right areas so that it didn't drag. The NT certainly has some of it too and I agree the Rise Tiko subplot is the weakest part of the movie, but even that can be explained as attempts to develop Finn's character as well as tie into the theme of the movie. Explain to me the point of the Conveyor belt set piece? Or Jango Fett's accomplice? 




> He had to apologize for saying those comments and backtrack them, because the mouse pointed a gun at him.
> 
> Literally just google it.
> 
> Did he back pedal when he said Disney didnt use his ideas at all? No. And we have Mark Hamill to confirm this as well because he knew them and outright said that Disney wasnt using Georges ideas.



I'll give you this...to a point, but why are you believing Lucas's word in some areas and not in others? Other than the fact that sometimes it serves your points and other times it doesn't. 




> Not saying he didnt and I wont apologise for him, but it does leave space for the story boarding and choreography team.



So is it really a stretch that he has the same mentality towards treatments? Because that was my original point. We don't know what his notes looked like, if they were even cohesive or if there was enough material to fill up a movie using them. here is the thing with treatments and I say this as a wannabe screen-writer who has read a lot of them to know how to do them myself. They are either written for you or for others. If I'm selling it to someone, I want to be as detailed and as clear as possible...and it's usually AFTER the script has been written. If it's just to prepare the story I'm writing, then it's either going to be a brief summary or a sloppy, dull read. 'Kylo Ren goes to location to find light saber. Captures Poe.' is about what that would look like. Lucas has been his own empire for so long, he doesn't need to sell his treatment. In fact, he was going to do the first movie himself before selling the company, apparently. He's not going to make a full-length, pristine treatment for Disney when he doesn't have to.





> So? Neither have I. I played some games when I was a kid and I have a basic information about the EU. I watched the cartoon mini series and that's it. Yet I understand the business model of Lucas and what makes the movies good and sell. Yet corporate suits put hacks on a leash that have no idea nor understand the source material.
> If they are gonna pay you millions to do a job, then proper research is the least you can do. Good film makers are obsessive, The leash hacks are not. Lest you spend years of your life making a living turd so that you will forever be remembered as the man who ruined a franchise.



Good filmmakers are not obsessive, but to expect them to dive into the universe known as the EU is ridiculous. I doubt they'd even have time to do that. If I were to do a "Friday the 13th" movie, would I have to read all of the books too? Even though they've never been confirmed as canon? I mean, shit, one of them has Jason Voorhees killing a chick with a shark (yes, you're reading this right) and that is too awesome to not include in some way, shape, or form...but the backstory that accompanied it would only serve as a distraction to anyone who hasn't read the EU. A clearer example is "Batman Vs Superman", which references shit that only comic book followers would understand, but the rest us were lost. 

If that is a requirement, let the franchise die. It's become so big it's going to collapse under its own weight regardless of who is in charge of it. 



> If you percieve this debate as personal, then that's your insecurities talking out. I merely call out folks that talk without knowing jack squat on the subject, Because I have to correct them an inform them, making all of this a waste of my time. That's why your whole argument is useless. Sorry but I have no interest on disrespecting you - If I did I apologise - only in debating on why TLJ it's rubbish alongside it's disney spawn.



Then maybe don't say things like "Americans lack common sense"? Or "you parade all the place with your “I am le monster movie critic cinephile” and seem to know pretty well what happens in the EU". Besides being wrong, as the anchor of my argument about the EU was that I didn't know anything about it, you decided to make this about me. Not my points. And if I seem like I'm pompous about this shit, it's because I do know a lot about what goes into the filmmaking process. I've not only taken classes on writing, directing, editing, film theory, I've written full length scripts and have been on sets. Doesn't mean I'm talented or anything. It doesn't even mean I'm right about "TLJ", but every point I make is rooted in some form of experience. I am still perfectly willing to concede when I'm wrong, such as with Ben Grimm and Fang, but you're either misreading my points, losing track of the points or you don't even know what these points mean. 

And this is why you need to watch "Carnosaur".


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## MartialHorror (Mar 21, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> it's really why i'm leaning toward him and Carrie being high as fuck when they wrote this...
> 
> his comment about their "writing sessions being more like poetic jazz" (or something to that degree) made me raise an eyebrow during an interview he gave.
> 
> ...



Okay, another question. A lot of people felt the same way about "The Empire Strikes Back", which is why "Return of the Jedi" ended up being more like the original, for better or worse. These days, TESB is regarded as the best because it broke new ground for the franchise. Isn't it possible that a lot of what you're hating about TLJ is simply because it's breaking new ground in a saga that has been trapped in a formula for years? 

Now I'll admit that this is still a flawed argument, as it's also possible that "TLJ" will only get worse over time, as the prequels were equally divisive upon release but are now usually accompanied with scorn. That can certainly happen and it's possible my preference towards TLJ is simply because it defied the formula I had become too accosted too. Just because it did things differently, it does not automatically mean it's good or has any real substance. I am perfectly willing to admit that this is a possibility, but are you? 

On another note, if they still plan on doing the Rian Johnson SW standalone trilogy, I think that work a lot better because he wouldn't be trapped in someone elses continuity. Obviously he wanted to do something different than what JJ Abrams had planned, but I think the movie might've been more well received if he wasn't stuck doing a continuation of JJ's story.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, another question. A lot of people felt the same way about "The Empire Strikes Back", which is why "Return of the Jedi" ended up being more like the original, for better or worse. These days, TESB is regarded as the best because it broke new ground for the franchise. Isn't it possible that a lot of what you're hating about TLJ is simply because it's breaking new ground in a saga that has been trapped in a formula for years?
> 
> Now I'll admit that this is still a flawed argument, as it's also possible that "TLJ" will only get worse over time, as the prequels were equally divisive upon release but are now usually accompanied with scorn. That can certainly happen and it's possible my preference towards TLJ is simply because it defied the formula I had become too accosted too. Just because it did things differently, it does not automatically mean it's good or has any real substance. *I am perfectly willing to admit that this is a possibility, but are you? *
> 
> On another note, if they still plan on doing the Rian Johnson SW standalone trilogy, I think that work a lot better because he wouldn't be trapped in someone elses continuity. Obviously he wanted to do something different than what JJ Abrams had planned, but I think the movie might've been more well received if he wasn't stuck doing a continuation of JJ's story.


I'd be willing to admit it, but that isn't the case.
my problem with TLJ isn't that it does things differently; I _like_ different, I _want_ different....but I value continuity as well, and want characters with depth, and I want them to progress and evolve in a _mildly_ consistent manner.

The only place TLJ breaks new ground is in its absurd pacing and tonal issues, terrible humor even by SW standards, disrespectful and ridiculous character development and bland corporate committee selection of main characters (the last not being RJ's fault ofc).

The plot is just a thinly veiled rip off and mishmash of ESB and RotJ so he can't take credit for that either.

Then he has the audacity to "let the past die"...but not really, because guess who has all the Jedi texts on the Falcon? That's right Ms. Blandess herself, MaRey SueWalker. 
So RJ couldn't even deliver on his promise to _Let the past die.
_
as for comparisons with how ESB was received vs TLJ?  no, not in a million years.

ESB is a much tighter script, has far more compelling characters and you feel actual tension and concern on first viewing. 
TLJ has none of that...because the actors aren't given anything to work with and the plot is a go nowhere mess full of shallow morality and even shallower attempts at pushing a contemporary social agenda. In other words, it's shit.

ESB wasn't well received because it was depressing as fuck. Han is frozen, maybe dead. Luke got his ass whooped and hand chopped off. The rebellion is nearly crushed. Yeah, it was a real bummer to leave that theater...but it's a damn masterpiece.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 22, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Never have I witnessed someone saying that the prequels commited character assasinations and even if they did then they obviously dont know what the fuck they are talking about.


I've witnessed plenty of people saying it.



Suigetsu said:


> Then again, this comes from someone sporting a Ghost busters reboot gif, so your opinion it's invalid on this matter.


I was wondering when someone would bring that up in this discussion. Of course if me liking the new Ghostbusters means my opinion is invalid you calling it "Ghost busters" means yours is invalid too.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I've witnessed plenty of people saying it.


Do you live under a rock or something?



> I was wondering when someone would bring that up in this discussion. Of course if me liking the new Ghostbusters means my opinion is invalid you calling it "Ghost busters" means yours is invalid too.


Gross


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## Suigetsu (Mar 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I watched all of the "Friday the 13th" and "Halloween" movies and I never recall any flashbacks of them being angsty, whiny brats. I don't remember the Psycho sequels very well and I haven't seen the TV series, but I don't recall anything like that in the original. Your comparisons make no sense for far too many reasons, as we never saw most of them as teenagers, they were more enigmatic in whatever flashbacks we got and using real people as an example is the silliest thing you've said that. In real life, we're all whiny, bratty, angsty shits at some point, but cinema is not real life...Seriously, dude? This was about character assassinations. I have no problem with Anakin having a troubled childhood, my issue is with how he was presented on-screen, as it hurt Vader's image...



What part of troubled childhood you do not understand? So according to you people in film should not be presented as real life people? How strange, dont the best films are those that present realistic characters? @RAGING BONER  what do you make of this?
I am sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in all week.



> Do you even realize that by including the likes of Hitler, you've sort of defeated your own point? Or do I seriously have to make a list of 'great people' who became bitter recluses or outright villain to show how Luke's fall is not character assassination I shouldn't have to, because it's such a ridiculous argument that I don't even think has any relevance as we are talking about storytelling, but you've opened the door. Even if I agreed with you that Luke suffered character assassination, your own logic would be telling me that he wasn't.


Luke is character assasination because he went from being the most obtimistic bastard in the galaxy, who never gave up and never lost hope. Into a bitter coward that gave up thus representing the current generation of millenials. Thus forever shunning on his legacy.
That's what character assasination is.
Vader was a slave kid that felt represed, had a troubled childhood and thus grew to become a murderous cunt, that's realistic and thus feels natural for his character. Whilst Luke breaks completely on it.




> I wasn't defending TLJ's choreography. In fact, when it first came out...I think in this threat...I wasn't sure what to make of it as I thought the visuals surrounding the choreography was really cool, but the choreography itself was odd. Why don't you go back and watch the Anakin vs Obi Wan scene or the Darth Maul fight and count how many pointless flips and twirls of the sabers there are.


What do I think about those fights? I think they look cool. My nephews saw them and they think they look cool. Like I said they may be over done but they did the job.




> Then you haven't been paying attention. It's one of the most controversial aspects of the latter prequels.


 That is very unlikely, there wasnt a shit storm about it like there is with luke. And besides your argument about this is that - characters in film are not supposed to be realistic.




> Okay, you don't know what a plot hole is.
> - You don't pay elite assassins to pay other assassins to do the job you've paid them for...especially when the other assassin has a ridiculously stupid plan that fails and only will make it more difficult for Jango in the future.


Oh you poor thing. How contrarian can you be? Do you even know how real assasin's opperate? Even in the Godfather they showed this. Unless ofcourse you never saw the god father.


> - The movie never said that or explained that.


And this is why we have people like michael bay doing millions, because folks cant connect the dots nor get subtle stuff.


> - Wha? Both Yoda and Qui Gon were still alive at that point? What are you talking about?


In revenge of the sith, after padme passes away, Yoda tells Obiwan that he would train him to learn how to commune with Qui-Gon.


> - Shit excuse. They didn't know they were being chased.


You are with a minor and suddenly you are attacked by a fucking sith, what do you do? Would you be irresponsible enough to risk the life of the chosen child? That's literally your moral choice vs the one of Lucas.


> - You don't know what a plot hole is.


Oh you sure seem to be giving us an example of not knowing what it is.


> - That's not an answer.


Dude, he didnt tell luke the woman they where going to rescue was his sister, so what makes you believe he would tell him that these droids once belonged to his father. He does seem to recognize them when he first lies eye on R2 and says Hello there.


> - I don't know what you're responding to.


So you cant even check what you wrote? Would you be all fine and dandy going to the place where you where once a slave to see your mothers OTHER family and the place where she was literally raped to dead?



> The OT had some of it, but used it in the right areas so that it didn't drag. The NT certainly has some of it too and I agree the Rise Tiko subplot is the weakest part of the movie, but even that can be explained as attempts to develop Finn's character as well as tie into the theme of the movie. Explain to me the point of the Conveyor belt set piece? Or Jango Fett's accomplice?


For the same reason there was an asteroid chase with the millenium falcon and it hiding inside a giant space worm dude. In case you havent noticed all the films by lucas have sorts of mini games in them.



> I'll give you this...to a point, but why are you believing Lucas's word in some areas and not in others? Other than the fact that sometimes it serves your points and other times it doesn't.


Because he is a man that has always followed his heart, he has no reason to lie. He is rich, powerful and famous. He doesnt need to lie unless it compromises him. If you pay close attention as to how the disneylucasfilm behaves you would have noticed when he is being put under the gun under contract as opposed to when he doesnt give no fucks.




> So is it really a stretch that he has the same mentality towards treatments? Because that was my original point. We don't know what his notes looked like, if they were even cohesive or if there was enough material to fill up a movie using them. here is the thing with treatments and I say this as a wannabe screen-writer who has read a lot of them to know how to do them myself. They are either written for you or for others. If I'm selling it to someone, I want to be as detailed and as clear as possible...and it's usually AFTER the script has been written. If it's just to prepare the story I'm writing, then it's either going to be a brief summary or a sloppy, dull read. 'Kylo Ren goes to location to find light saber. Captures Poe.' is about what that would look like. Lucas has been his own empire for so long, he doesn't need to sell his treatment. In fact, he was going to do the first movie himself before selling the company, apparently. He's not going to make a full-length, pristine treatment for Disney when he doesn't have to.


Yes Pal, I know what a screenwritting is, I did went to film school for a while too, until a professional told me that it was worth jackshit and to go work with him on a film for a while.
He says he had mapped enough shit for 6 films - not an elevator pitch but an actual story planned out. So knowing him I take he knew the story but I doubt he had a full screenplay. But since he and mark said disney didnt use any of his ideas then that means that anything that looks like TFA wasnt his.






> Good filmmakers are not obsessive


 Guillermo Del Toro, James Cameron, Kubric among others disagree with you.



> But to expect them to dive into the universe known as the EU is ridiculous. I doubt they'd even have time to do that. If I were to do a "Friday the 13th" movie


Dont be silly, this is when you make the difference between good and mediocre. You want a good movie? then work hard for it. Research the mythos and take the coolest shit from it. In this case, Mara Jade, Ben skywalker, Jaina and Jacen and Thrawn are the most iconic guys. I never read an expanded universe in my fucking life but I and many others like I can tell you who they are. And they wanted to see them on the big screen. This is how you get the fans by the balls and get rich by selling them their toys. They already have characterization, personalities and a background that you can base yourself on. I mean seriously look at what we got instead, it's ridiculous.



> If that is a requirement, let the franchise die. It's become so big it's going to collapse under its own weight regardless of who is in charge of it.


 Flash news, it died the moment they anounced K.K. was going to be the president of it, she has no clue how to handle that franchise. Big franchises should be easy to manage but the problem is - like I told you already - they put people that have no fucking clue how this franchise makes it's gold.




> Then maybe don't say things like "Americans lack common sense"? Or "you parade all the place with your “I am le monster movie critic cinephile” and seem to know pretty well what happens in the EU". Besides being wrong, as the anchor of my argument about the EU was that I didn't know anything about it, you decided to make this about me.


Well yes, because you are presenting your bias as the great truth. That's when you get yourself into these things,  You need to learn how to present your opinion from it.



> Not my points. And if I seem like I'm pompous about this shit, it's because I do know a lot about what goes into the filmmaking process. 've not only taken classes on writing, directing, editing, film theory, I've written full length scripts and have been on sets. Doesn't mean I'm talented or anything. It doesn't even mean I'm right about "TLJ", but every point I make is rooted in some form of experience. I am still perfectly willing to concede when I'm wrong, such as with Ben Grimm and Fang, but you're either misreading my points, losing track of the points or you don't even know what these points mean.


All of that shit is cool but there are also a lot of things that you need to learn outside of school and out of sheer curiosity and desire to know more. This is why I dont agree with your points presented, altought you do know your fields of expertice which are take are the B movies?
I did went to film school for a little while "as a 2nd career, first one was the condition to get the funds" 



> And this is why you need to watch "Carnosaur".


Fuck that turd, I watched it as a kid thinking it was going to be a cool dinosaur movie. I have no fond memories of it.[/quote][/quote]


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## Gaiash (Mar 22, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Do you live under a rock or something?


Wouldn't you be the one under the rock for not encountering something?


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 22, 2018)

Rose and Finn wasting precious time to free space horses is worse than everything in the prequels. But then again, I thought the prequels were entertaining and fun despite all the bad acting. They FELT like Star Wars. There was story progression. There was LOGICAL story progression. Character growth. A clear path.

Why does TLJ feel like RJ didn't even watch TFA? Or any Star Wars movie ever? It felt more like...a Marvel movie with all the dumb attempts at humor.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 22, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Why does TLJ feel like RJ didn't even watch TFA? Or any Star Wars movie ever?


I think you're getting him mixed up with yourself.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I think you're getting him mixed up with yourself.



Sorry Kathleen, but you're ruining the franchise.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 22, 2018)

Okay, as this debate is getting too bloated, I'm going to try and condense these points into a summary. If I missed anything you wish to discuss, bring it up. 

1) Maybe I'm being harsh, as English seems to be your 2nd language and it's possible I'm not being clear enough, but you either seem to overlook or misrepresent my points. For the last time, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ANAKIN HAVING A TROUBLED CHILDHOOD. But films are about story and character progression. It represents reality, but isn't supposed to be reality, otherwise we'd have way too many sex scenes being interrupted by erectile dysfunction, fight scenes would ruin the protagonists faces beyond recognition and dialogue would not sound anywhere near as cool as it does in the movies. But for GOOD long form storytelling, the prequels would need to establish Anakin's personality in such a way that we can see him transition into Vader. If Vader is a stoic individual, consumed with tranquil fury, then it would make more sense for him to act that way as a teenager, just not to the same extent. The only times I thought Anakin resembled Vader was when he killed those dudes who murdered his Mom and when he slaughters the trade federation people, but what happens next? More whining, bitching, moaning. Do you know what real character assassination is? It's not what they do with Luke and hell...maybe it's not even what they did with Anakin. It's the infamous "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" scene, as now Anakin is Darth Vader and he is acting nothing like Vader. I could've forgiven everything surrounding Anakin if when he emerged as Vader, he had given up on all emotions and was now mostly dead on the inside. That would be a pay-off. But nope, he has to yell "NOOOOOOOO" in such a way that is unlike Vader. 

2) Now Luke is not the saint certain people remember him to be. He was also impulsive, arrogant and prone to the dark side. The Emperor and Vader both saw that potential, which is why they thought they could recruit him. He only decides Vader is worth saving after realizing they're related and even gives up on him (so much for the 'most optimistic guy in the world') to the point that he would've KILLED him if Palpatine didn't start taunting him. This robbed him the potential to overcome his weakness, as technically, Palpatine stole that from him. So is it really 'character assassination' when he in essence...gives into his darker impulses, falls into despair and loses faith in himself, when we saw all of these same traits in the OT? You can argue that "TLJ" handled all of these ideas poorly, just as I'd argue that the PT handled all of its ideas surrounding Anakin poorly, but character assassination? You say I don't understand 'subtlety', but you've missed Luke's entire character arc. You tried to use RL examples to justify Vader's past, as 'troubled childhood= being whiny', but you don't even acknowledge my 'Great people also fall in real life and in fiction'. I mean, shit, this is a Naruto forum, so I assume you're familiar with that. Did Obito suffer 'character assassination' too? He fell a lot harder than Luke.  

3) A plot hole is an inconsistency in the plot. Jango hiring the other assassin makes no sense within the context of the scene. Their plot to kill Padme was convoluted, doomed for failure and only risked a potential witness...and made the Jedi aware of Jango Fett's presence. In movies, most assassins who hire assassins do so because they have a reason for it. A grand scheme, but what did Jango gain from it?  I will admit that you're right about Yoda training Obi Wan...although this opens another hole as how did Vader get this ability in "Return of the Jedi" now? Up until "Revenge of the Sith", there wasn't any real need for an explanation for that, as it just seemed like the light side force users could do it. When they're fleeing, you say "Wouldn't you run if a Sith was chasing you?" and yes...I would...The problem is they didn't know the Sith was chasing them. One moment, everything is fine and the next, they're running like they're being chased. THEN Darth Maul shows up. I hear there is a deleted scene explaining this, but as is, it's a plot hole. I didn't know what you were responding to because you got your points out of order, apparently...and it's still kind of a shitty excuse. They're assuming Vader is going to behave a certain way, which is why they let Luke keep the family name and stay at Dad's homeword, even though they're only in this position because they completely failed to predict Vader's behavior. 

4) You say Lucas has 'no need to lie', even though according to you, he is lying when he praises the new Star Wars movies. You're picking and choosing when to believe him based on your own personal opinions. 

5) You keep saying I need to learn things, etc., etc.,etc., but I've yet to see any evidence you know anything. You fill the plot holes with speculation, you cherry pick information and worst of all...you're making the prequels sound like good movies. And you don't appreciate the majestic artform known as the Carnosaur trilogy.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 22, 2018)

I can't believe people are still bitching about this movie. 

If you don't like where the series is going then stop watching it, it's as simple as that. Not every part of every series has to be for everyone.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 22, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I can't believe people are still bitching about this movie.
> 
> If you don't like where the series is going then stop watching it, it's as simple as that. Not every part of every series has to be for everyone.


To be fair I am not following no more, but I find the debates interesting.  Besides I am still waiting for the persona 5 anime.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, as this debate is getting too bloated, I'm going to try and condense these points into a summary. If I missed anything you wish to discuss, bring it up.


1) . But films are about story and character progression. It represents reality, but isn't supposed to be reality, otherwise we'd have way too many sex scenes being interrupted by erectile dysfunction, fight scenes would ruin the protagonists faces beyond recognition and dialogue would not sound anywhere near as cool as it does in the movies. But for GOOD long form storytelling, the prequels would need to establish Anakin's personality in such a way that we can see him transition into Vader. If Vader is a stoic individual, consumed with tranquil fury, then it would make more sense for him to act that way as a teenager, just not to the same extent. The only times I thought Anakin resembled Vader was when he killed those dudes who murdered his Mom and when he slaughters the trade federation people, but what happens next? More whining, bitching, moaning. Do you know what real character assassination is? It's not what they do with Luke and hell...maybe it's not even what they did with Anakin. It's the infamous "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" scene, as now Anakin is Darth Vader and he is acting nothing like Vader. I could've forgiven everything surrounding Anakin if when he emerged as Vader, he had given up on all emotions and was now mostly dead on the inside. That would be a pay-off. But nope, he has to yell "NOOOOOOOO" in such a way that is unlike Vader.[/quote]
I think this is more a personal issue you have with the writting than what it actually is. I see your issue which is that we never got to see his transition from young adult into old adult. Even with his suit he was still an exhilarating rage machine so he remained consistent. Becoming stoic and a cold murderer as time went on. We even saw some glimpses of that during EP3. He remains in character and now you say film it's about character progression but here is the thing. They are supposed to be and act like humans after all, not aliens and that's just how star wars has always been.

To be fair I am not fond of the NOOOOOO either and would rather have had just a drowned in bile roar of lamentation. But for kids it does sound cool - my nephews think it rocks - mainl because they identify with darth vader sinc it's every kids power fantasy, So perhaps there is your problem.

Also like I said, I had absolutely never ever heard in my life about Darth vader recieving a character assasination, your whole argument it's filled with mental gymnastics about - acting like humans but not acting like humans because this is not reality and blah blah blah. This issue was mainly brought up when people got super upset about Luke's character assasination - which is a fact - even after encountering many most hardcore prequel haters and lovers alike.



> 2) Now Luke is not the saint certain people remember him to be. He was also impulsive, arrogant and prone to the dark side. The Emperor and Vader both saw that potential, which is why they thought they could recruit him. He only decides Vader is worth saving after realizing they're related and e*ven gives up on him* (so much for the 'most optimistic guy in the world') to the point that he would've KILLED him if Palpatine didn't start taunting him. This robbed him the potential to overcome his weakness, as technically, Palpatine stole that from him. So is it really 'character assassination' when he in essence...gives into his darker impulses, falls into despair and loses faith in himself, when we saw all of these same traits in the OT? You can argue that "TLJ" handled all of these ideas poorly, just as I'd argue that the PT handled all of its ideas surrounding Anakin poorly, but character assassination? You say I don't understand 'subtlety', but you've missed Luke's entire character arc. You tried to use RL examples to justify Vader's past, as 'troubled childhood= being whiny', but you don't even acknowledge my 'Great people also fall in real life and in fiction'. I mean, shit, this is a Naruto forum, so I assume you're familiar with that. Did Obito suffer 'character assassination' too? He fell a lot harder than Luke.


So now you are defending TLJ again, nice backpedalling.
When did Luke gave up on Vader? He looses himself by a moment but restrains himself, that's the moment he beats his weakness and becomes a true Jedi. How is this hard to understand? This is when I can tell your whole argument it's shit - It's based on sheer bias and requires mental gymnastics.
Luke in TLJ it's out of character and his character is assasinated because it goes against what he did in return of the jedi, plain and simple.
Yes I used real life and fiction examples as to why Vader turned out the way he did, because that's what George lucas did. If you didnt like it then it doesnt mean it's bad, it just means it was his style and that he did not deliver on your expectations. Here is the thing, Luke resembles a classic Arthurian or Greek Hero, he triumphs on his journey. Vader represents the fall of a hero. Therefore their characters remained consistent and their arcs worked.

Obito suffered from terrible writting and from a writter that had no fucking idea what he was doing.




> 3) A plot hole is an inconsistency in the plot. Jango hiring the other assassin makes no sense within the context of the scene. Their plot to kill Padme was convoluted, doomed for failure and only risked a potential witness...and made the Jedi aware of Jango Fett's presence. In movies, most assassins who hire assassins do so because they have a reason for it. A grand scheme, but what did Jango gain from it?  I will admit that you're right about Yoda training Obi Wan...although this opens another hole as how did Vader get this ability in "Return of the Jedi" now? Up until "Revenge of the Sith", there wasn't any real need for an explanation for that, as it just seemed like the light side force users could do it. When they're fleeing, you say "Wouldn't you run if a Sith was chasing you?" and yes...I would...The problem is they didn't know the Sith was chasing them. One moment, everything is fine and the next, they're running like they're being chased. THEN Darth Maul shows up. I hear there is a deleted scene explaining this, but as is, it's a plot hole. I didn't know what you were responding to because you got your points out of order, apparently...and it's still kind of a shitty excuse. They're assuming Vader is going to behave a certain way, which is why they let Luke keep the family name and stay at Dad's homeword, even though they're only in this position because they completely failed to predict Vader's behavior.



That's not even a Plot whole inconsistency, Jango hired Zam because she was a face shifter and therefore more appropriate for the task than fucking jango. Jango it's a bounty hunter, not an assasin.

How did Vader got it? wouldnt the actual question be, how did Luke got it? I dunno, I mean he trained with Yoda right? Who also taught Obi wan how to see force ghosts.

The Darth Maul scene - gee I dont know, dont Jedi sense when there is danger nearby? Would Qui-gon do that after he sensed fanger in order to protect the infant? I mean he is supposed to be really powerful in order to sense these things no?

Luke in Tattoine: Well he was being watched by Obi-wan who knew Vader enough, and dont forget these people know each other very well because they can sense each others feelings. Just as how Obi-wan knew Anakin was fucking Padme all the time but he never opened his mouth. Luck and the force was trully with Luke, had he not gone with Obi-wan he would have probably been abducted by the storm troopers and taken to Vader. So it was, right time at the right place.





> 4) You say Lucas has 'no need to lie', even though according to you, he is lying when he praises the new Star Wars movies. You're picking and choosing when to believe him based on your own personal opinions.


I told you he doesnt have a reason to lie, but that he plays the game because the mouse is pointing a gun at him, specially after his white slavers comment. So what the fuck are you talking about? I think you lack some serious common sense if all of these are problems that you have with starwars.



> 5) You keep saying I need to learn things, etc., etc.,etc., but I've yet to see any evidence you know anything. You fill the plot holes with speculation, you cherry pick information and worst of all...you're making the prequels sound like good movies. And you don't appreciate the majestic artform known as the Carnosaur trilogy.


I dont fill "plot holes" with speculation. But I use common sense to answer those questions, because that's something people used to have back in the day. Unlike these days where folks to need to be super spoon fed to the point they need to put the posters of - there is no sound in this scene because there is no sound in space.

I am not saying the Prequels are good movies, but I think most of the time people dont know where to put the finger on why they dont like them. Which is fine, but you need to understand what it is before you go at it.
What did I not like about the prequels? I think it's the writting, the acting and mostly a director that hadnt directed a single movie for more than 20 years, that also did the screenplays by himself. He also has a problem with romance because after the whole divorce gig happened, he kind of lost it.
I also think they have a lot of missed oportunities, I dont like that they have a sith villian on each movie - I dont like the idea of Doku being a sith apprentice but would have prefered if he where just a rouge jedi without a red lightsaber. A yellow/gold wold have represented his status better.
I dont like Attack of the clones for example, it's very cringe worthy but as a kid I liked the stuff because it looked cool and because Natalie Portman was HOT AF! Muh Waifu at the time. I even hit on a girl that resembled her, even tought she was way older than me 

I refuse to refresh my neurons with this disgusting trash, to the point I had to replace it with the only good carnosaur from GamesWorkshop.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 23, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> To be fair I am not following no more, but I find the debates interesting.  Besides I am still waiting for the persona 5 anime.


Um because its going to be

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Um because its going to be


fuck... you did it didnt you?


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## Glued (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I can't believe people are still bitching about this movie.
> 
> If you don't like where the series is going then stop watching it, it's as simple as that. Not every part of every series has to be for everyone.



This isn't Sherlock Holmes where each of the short stories are are unrelated. This is a massive interlocked saga. Every part is going to be interlocked.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I can't believe people are still bitching about this movie.
> 
> If you don't like where the series is going then stop watching it, it's as simple as that. Not every part of every series has to be for everyone.


Dinsey is fucking with thee NFL and Star Wars. 2 truly culturally unifying brands. This is not going anywhere.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 23, 2018)

Responding to Suigetsu.

1) It might be consistent with Anakin from the prequels, but it's not consistent with Darth Vader, whom Anakin is supposed to grow into, which is what character progression is supposed to be. They are supposed to act like humans, yes...although some of the dialogue the characters say almost seems contrary to this point...but they are also movie characters. We can assume Darth Vader has to take a dump every once in awhile, but if the movie showed us this, his grand image would be ruined forever. That's what the prequels did and even though you keep insisting you've never heard 'character assassination' in regards to Vader, I have no clue how you missed that as bitching about Anakin was all I heard during the release of the prequels. Maybe you weren't old enough as they were coming out? Even back when I actually kind of LIKED the prequels, I had heard this stuff. 

2) I'm making a point that the road runs both ways in regards to alleged 'character assassination' and even if I'm defending "TLJ", who cares? Is defending a movie part of 'shilling' it? Are you shilling the PT? When does he give up on Vader? When he almost kills him? Look on Luke's face when the Emperor starts talking, as Luke clearly realizes he nearly crossed a threshold. Now to be fair, this is an issue I've always had with RotJ, as I think it would have been better if Luke had made the realization without being pushed into it by Palpatine's taunting. But whether it was deliberate by Lucas or simply questionable writing itself, that's how the movie chose to resolve Luke's journey, by being very lucky the Emperor was stupid enough to open his mouth. As for TLJ, you keep saying it goes against what he did in RotJ, but I keep pointing out how it doesn't...I suppose the real problem is we both view Luke in two very different ways. For me, his actions in TLJ were perfectly in line with how he behaved in RotJ. 

You say that you use real life examples because that's what Lucas did, but real life examples could also be used to support Luke's quasi-fall. Vader and Luke are indeed classical archetypes, but if that's the limitation of allowed storytelling devices, then Star Wars should've ended with the prequels, regardless of who is in charge. That's a formula and formulas grow stale. Rian Johnson's entire theme in TLJ is how everything is messy, the Resistance can do morally ambiguous stuff, legends can turn out to be disappointments because they are also human, monsters and heroes can be unceremoniously killed and dreams can easily be reduced to ashes. You say "you might not like it" based off what they did to Anakin, but I can say "you might not like it" right back based off what they did to Luke. 

3)  How did shape shifting assist in sending a droid to drop a deadly worm thing in through a window...I actually looked it up out of curiosity to see if the EU explained this and apparently she and Jango were supposed to be partners and he was somewhat upset that he had to kill her. As is, the scene only exists so that Anakin and Obi Wan could stop the assassination without prematurely robbing Jango of his aura. I can assume 

Luke got force ghosting from Yoda, but that's not  a better question than how Vader got it. Luke was in contact with Obi Wan and Yoda after the events of RotJ, Vader was not. Vader seemed confused when Obi Wan suddenly vanished, so he didn't have it then. As for Qui Gon and Obi Wan, then their powers work VERY inconsistently considering how many times they find themselves surprised, captured or put on the defensive. No one even noticed Palpatine was a Sith Lord until it was too late, even though he was constantly interacting with them. But even if I accepted that, it doesn't change the fact that they scene handled that very badly. It would've been perfectly fine if they were walking, Obi Wan suddenly pauses, senses something and tells them all to run and then cue Maul's entrance. As is, it's obvious there was a deleted scene. As for Tattooine, do you really still think that's not a stretch? They don't even pretend like Luke is the son of his Uncle, which would justify the name. Excuse it all you want, it's not good hindsight writing. 

4) You're still picking and choosing your facts with Lucas. "He has no reason to lie, but he knows how to play the game"...and it sounds like that game= lying to promote the movie...So I guess he has a reason to lie, if it's part of playing the game?

5) But you can do that with any plot hole, even with the NT...and by the way, 'speculation' is 'speculation'. Saying "it's common sense" is incorrect, as it's not common sense to change Luke's name...which at least they did with Leia. I have nothing against filling plot holes with speculation either, as long as it's acknowledged as such. It can be fun in the right mindset. I can come up with an explanation as to why the balance of power shifted so drastically between TFA and TLJ, or how Kylo Ren seemed to know who Rey is even though it turns out he doesn't, how Leia learned to use the force, why no one thought to use light speed as a weapon before. I can explain why Holdo chose not to tell Poe of her plan...but would any of these explanations I can think of make the writing any better?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 23, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> This isn't Sherlock Holmes where each of the short stories are are unrelated. This is a massive interlocked saga. Every part is going to be interlocked.


And?

You’re acting like that means that every part has to be for you or tonally the same. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are the same interlocked series snd totally tonally different. And you’re not required to like all media for everything.

If you’re a Star Wars fan who thinks Disney ruined your niche cool thing I’ve got news for you...you’re an idiot. Star Wars has never been niche. It’s always been mainstream and the movies have always been made to have mainstream appeal. That’s why they shy away from hard science fiction. Star Wars doesn’t owe the obsessed fan all of its attention because there’s not much life in appealing to a niche market for a 250 million dollar movie that needs to find a future audience to carry on liking it.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And?
> 
> You’re acting like that means that every part has to be for you or tonally the same. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are the same interlocked series snd totally tonally different. And you’re not required to like all media for everything.
> 
> If you’re a Star Wars fan who thinks Disney ruined your niche cool thing I’ve got news for you...you’re an idiot. Star Wars has never been niche. It’s always been mainstream and the movies have always been made to have mainstream appeal. That’s why they shy away from hard science fiction. Star Wars doesn’t owe the obsessed fan all of its attention because there’s not much life in appealing to a niche market for a 250 million dollar movie that needs to find a future audience to carry on liking it.


I would say LOTR and the Hobbit trilogy are more consistent than the 9 Star Wars  movies.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 23, 2018)

I agree that Lotr and the Hobbit are more consistent with Star Wars, although they have the advantage of being based on novels, so their foundation is more grounded. It also helps that they've all shared the same director. Originally, Guillermo del Toro would've done "The Hobbit" and allegedly, some of his ideas included talking animals. That would've been a bit too out there, but it could've been interesting too.

Star Wars has always been pretty messy when it comes to tone, structure and story development. It got even messier when the prequels came around and Disney isn't making it any less messy. I don't mind this though. I might think the prequels were shit, but they didn't really put a damper on my adoration of the original trilogy and at the absolute least, I understood what Lucas was aiming for. The movies were ambitious, much more ambitious than the NT, even if I think they ultimately backfired. If Lucas did any real damage to his legacy, it's the special editions.

But I think franchises need to always move forward, whereas I think far too much of the SW fandom wants to remain trapped in the past, even if they don't realize this. I'd even rather franchises do so, even if the growing pains are intense. The prequels, believe it or not, did TRY to do this in their own way. This is why I don't think it's a stretch if Lucas liked TLJ, when he doesn't seem quite as fond as TFA. TLJ did TRY- whether it failed or succeeded is another question- to move the franchise forward, while TFA seemed afraid to take that big step.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I agree that Lotr and the Hobbit are more consistent with Star Wars, although they have the advantage of being based on novels, so their foundation is more grounded. It also helps that they've all shared the same director. Originally, Guillermo del Toro would've done "The Hobbit" and allegedly, some of his ideas included talking animals. That would've been a bit too out there, but it could've been interesting too.
> 
> Star Wars has always been pretty messy when it comes to tone, structure and story development. It got even messier when the prequels came around and Disney isn't making it any less messy. I don't mind this though. I might think the prequels were shit, but they didn't really put a damper on my adoration of the original trilogy and at the absolute least, I understood what Lucas was aiming for. The movies were ambitious, much more ambitious than the NT, even if I think they ultimately backfired. If Lucas did any real damage to his legacy, it's the special editions.
> 
> But I think franchises need to always move forward, whereas I think far too much of the SW fandom wants to remain trapped in the past, even if they don't realize this. I'd even rather franchises do so, even if the growing pains are intense. The prequels, believe it or not, did TRY to do this in their own way. This is why I don't think it's a stretch if Lucas liked TLJ, when he doesn't seem quite as fond as TFA. TLJ did TRY- whether it failed or succeeded is another question- to move the franchise forward, while TFA seemed afraid to take that big step.




It could be just fine.look above.

 Lucas should have stayed on the ground since the narrative of the Clone Wars makes no sense.

I am fine with new stuff just like i was fine with mots of the EU, but TLJ, you are drunk.


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## Glued (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And?
> 
> You’re acting like that means that every part has to be for you or tonally the same. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are the same interlocked series snd totally tonally different. And you’re not required to like all media for everything.
> 
> If you’re a Star Wars fan who thinks Disney ruined your niche cool thing I’ve got news for you...you’re an idiot. Star Wars has never been niche. It’s always been mainstream and the movies have always been made to have mainstream appeal. That’s why they shy away from hard science fiction. Star Wars doesn’t owe the obsessed fan all of its attention because there’s not much life in appealing to a niche market for a 250 million dollar movie that needs to find a future audience to carry on liking it.


Aside from The One Ring and Bilbo, the Hobbit is hardly interlocked with the Lord of The Rings. Gloin is father of Gimli, you know who cares, no one. Also Bilbo had his story, it wasn't dragged out in a negative way like the Last Jedi. Also a more apt comparison would be to compare the Hobbit to Rogue One or the now non-canon Ewok movies. I enjoyed the Ewok films, K2 was the only character I liked in Rogue One. One can even avoid The Hobbit if one likes or Rogue One, The Last Jedi on the other hand is 12.5 % of the main franchise. It is called Episode 8 for a reason.

I wasn't calling it niche, I was calling The Last Jedi bad on a very fundamental level. Star Wars is an epic saga, and the tale of Rey isn't an epic worth telling.

The Last Jedi felt like an episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles with the most incompetent villains one could imagine. Snoke's excuse for keeping Hux was one of the dumbest pieces of shit I have ever seen. Hux honestly is a Saturday Morning villain whose only purpose is to make the hero look good.

Disney took A Modern Epic and turned it into an 80s era Saturday Morning Cartoon.

It is called Episode 8 for a damn reason, because 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 all came before it. Luke abandoned Leia while she was fighting the First Order for years, his story began in episode 4 and it ended in episode 8. Bilbo's story began in the Hobbit and it ended in the Hobbit.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 23, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It could be just fine.look above.
> 
> Lucas should have stayed on the ground since the narrative of the Clone Wars makes no sense.
> 
> I am fine with new stuff just like i was fine with mots of the EU, but TLJ, you are drunk.



Did...Did you just try to school me on the Zatoichi movies?

The Zatoichi movies worked for two reasons, the first being that they came during some interesting transitional periods when it came to visual experimentation, the 2nd being that each movie was built around a perfectly cast, fascinating character. But I say this as someone who owns most of the franchise, even that was often dangerously close to growing stale.

Granted, I'm not entire sure what you were responding too, but it's a flawed comparison...although I'm always happy to know that there are others in this forum who are familiar with it too. 

Zatoichi has been struggling as a franchise since Shintaro Katsu died, because he was its soul, which is why none of the newer entries have had any real sequels. Star Wars is more about the setting than any of its characters.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 23, 2018)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you’re a Star Wars fan who thinks Disney ruined your niche cool thing I’ve got news for you...you’re an idiot. Star Wars has never been niche. *It’s always been mainstream and the movies have always been made to have mainstream appeal.* That’s why they shy away from hard science fiction. Star Wars doesn’t owe the obsessed fan all of its attention because there’s not much life in appealing to a niche market for a 250 million dollar movie that needs to find a future audience to carry on liking it.


I've only ever agreed with modern China on one thing...

that the people who made this movie must have assumed the audience were idiots.

Hence why it made 9$ at the box office there.

Actually make that 2: they also said the cast was ugly as shit.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Responding to Suigetsu.


Then tag me or I wont even know you ever responded. 



> 1) It might be consistent with Anakin from the prequels, but it's not consistent with Darth Vader, whom Anakin is supposed to grow into, which is what character progression is supposed to be. They are supposed to act like humans, yes...although some of the dialogue the characters say almost seems contrary to this point...but they are also movie characters. We can assume Darth Vader has to take a dump every once in awhile, but if the movie showed us this, his grand image would be ruined forever. That's what the prequels did and even though you keep insisting you've never heard 'character assassination' in regards to Vader, I have no clue how you missed that as bitching about Anakin was all I heard during the release of the prequels. Maybe you weren't old enough as they were coming out? Even back when I actually kind of LIKED the prequels, I had heard this stuff.



I never heard that, even from people that hated them even more than you did. You and the other guy have been the very first who spouted that. Anyways you are contradicting yourself there, basically your argument is that Anakin it's not consistent with vader but you have no concrete reason fo why. Almost 20 years happened between ep 3 and 4, he had enough time to cool down his anger into a stoic and darker way, since there was no hope nor anything to look forward to. Untill he finds out he's son is alive.
You think I was too young back then? Hah! how about you tell me yours first and then I'll tell you mine.



> 2) I'm making a point that the road runs both ways in regards to alleged 'character assassination' and even if I'm defending "TLJ", who cares? Is defending a movie part of 'shilling' it? Are you shilling the PT? When does he give up on Vader? When he almost kills him? Look on Luke's face when the Emperor starts talking, as Luke clearly realizes he nearly crossed a threshold. Now to be fair, this is an issue I've always had with RotJ, as I think it would have been better if Luke had made the realization without being pushed into it by Palpatine's taunting. But whether it was deliberate by Lucas or simply questionable writing itself, that's how the movie chose to resolve Luke's journey, by being very lucky the Emperor was stupid enough to open his mouth. As for TLJ, you keep saying it goes against what he did in RotJ, but I keep pointing out how it doesn't...I suppose the real problem is we both view Luke in two very different ways. For me, his actions in TLJ were perfectly in line with how he behaved in RotJ.



Defending a movie that cant be defended IS shilling. I aint shilling the prequels, just saying that you cant put the finger on why you dislike them since many of your points dont make sense or just arent valid at all.
Now this is where I know you are shilling, because you are trying to justify Luke's assasination of a character, if you actually believe he's character remain consistent then that's okay, because you already proved that you lack common sense. But I am going to explain it to you one last time, You have someone that would never abandon his friends, never give up on people and be optimistic as fuck, to try and kill his nephew on it's sleep simply because he had a bad premotion and then goes to hide himself on a rock without giving a flying crap about the republic or his friends. So how is that consistent? Your example of - but he almost killed vader when he tasted the dark side - doesnt make sense in the context of this argument. Also you choose to be obtuse or biased when it suits you as opposed to use reason.



> You say that you use real life examples because that's what Lucas did, but real life examples could also be used to support Luke's quasi-fall. Vader and Luke are indeed classical archetypes, but if that's the limitation of allowed storytelling devices, then Star Wars should've ended with the prequels, regardless of who is in charge. That's a formula and formulas grow stale. Rian Johnson's entire theme in TLJ is how everything is messy, the Resistance can do morally ambiguous stuff, legends can turn out to be disappointments because they are also human, monsters and heroes can be unceremoniously killed and dreams can easily be reduced to ashes. You say "you might not like it" based off what they did to Anakin, but I can say "you might not like it" right back based off what they did to Luke.



Rian J's formula it's basically subverting expectations. That's literally it, even the art directors and costume designers gave a wtf face. The problem is that if you subvert everything then you kill all expectations and and excitement because that means everything will be stale and boring. And look how well worked for him, he is literal in hollywood jail now.



> 3)  How did shape shifting assist in sending a droid to drop a deadly worm thing in through a window...I actually looked it up out of curiosity to see if the EU explained this and apparently she and Jango were supposed to be partners and he was somewhat upset that he had to kill her. As is, the scene only exists so that Anakin and Obi Wan could stop the assassination without prematurely robbing Jango of his aura. I can assume


For the same porpuse ROTJ had a speederbike chase, all lucas films have sort of mini games in it. Now I am not gonna lie the whole droid assasination scene and the worms looked like absolute rubbish. Also it didnt age well at all.



> Luke got force ghosting from Yoda, but that's not  a better question than how Vader got it. Luke was in contact with Obi Wan and Yoda after the events of RotJ, Vader was not. Vader seemed confused when Obi Wan suddenly vanished, so he didn't have it then. As for Qui Gon and Obi Wan, then their powers work VERY inconsistently considering how many times they find themselves surprised, captured or put on the defensive. No one even noticed Palpatine was a Sith Lord until it was too late, even though he was constantly interacting with them. But even if I accepted that, it doesn't change the fact that they scene handled that very badly. It would've been perfectly fine if they were walking, Obi Wan suddenly pauses, senses something and tells them all to run and then cue Maul's entrance. As is, it's obvious there was a deleted scene. As for Tattooine, do you really still think that's not a stretch? They don't even pretend like Luke is the son of his Uncle, which would justify the name. Excuse it all you want, it's not good hindsight writing.



You dont need to know the technique to manifest as a ghost, as long as one of the two "the one project" or "the reciever " know the technique then all it's good.
In the OT they seem to find their presences because they are familiar with each other. the jedi council didnt have a clue palpatine was a force user so why would they be worried about his presence, specially if this one knew how to mask it so well.
I am not excusing the bad writting dude, and you seem to be confusing writting with editing in this instance.

As for Luke not being caught by the sandtroopers, call it a stretch, the force was with him or sheer luck. That's just the way it was. I mean I know people that have won the big ass lottery TWICE! After that nothing surprises me anymore.

And yes, I told you the PT was filled with bad writting, so dont go putting words on my mouth. I dont like when people do that.




> 4) You're still picking and choosing your facts with Lucas. "He has no reason to lie, but he knows how to play the game"...and it sounds like that game= lying to promote the movie...So I guess he has a reason to lie, if it's part of playing the game?



I told you this a lot of times already.
He has no reason to lie, unless someone is pointing a gun at him, in this case disney. That's what the game it's called in hollywood. How the fuck is that cheerypicking?



> 5) But you can do that with any plot hole, even with the NT...and by the way, 'speculation' is 'speculation'. Saying "it's common sense" is incorrect, as it's not common sense to change Luke's name...which at least they did with Leia. I have nothing against filling plot holes with speculation either, as long as it's acknowledged as such. It can be fun in the right mindset. I can come up with an explanation as to why the balance of power shifted so drastically between TFA and TLJ, or how Kylo Ren seemed to know who Rey is even though it turns out he doesn't, how Leia learned to use the force, why no one thought to use light speed as a weapon before. I can explain why Holdo chose not to tell Poe of her plan...but would any of these explanations I can think of make the writing any better?



Only if the answers are in the movie, if they are not or are complete ass pulls that dont make sense, then you have a disaster like TLJ. And this is a fact.
Obi-wan was really just that confident, as long as Vader didnt come himself to tatooine then everything would be fine.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 23, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Then tag me or I wont even know you ever responded.
> .



1) Oi, as I keep saying, it's all about story progression. If you're going to do a Vader prequel, you need to make his progression into becoming Vader feel natural. Saying it happened off-screen is a big cop-out, as I can easily say Luke's fall happened off-screen too. Would that make you any less pissed off about how TLJ presented Luke? As for my age, I'm a little younger than Return of the Jedi...Too old...and it was a serious controversy, even if you somehow missed it. Ask around. 

2) The problem is saying 'can't be defended' is purely subjective. Not everyone hates this movie and as intense as the backlash has been, most people still do put it above the prequels. I'm also not 'justifying Luke's character assassination', because I don't think he suffered from character assassination. In fact, why are we calling this 'character assassination' because in the context of either Luke or Anakin, the definition is wrong. And the 'he tried to kill Vader' doesn't work in this context? It shows how easily he can give into his darker impulses, which was the whole point of him being tempted to kill Ben. When fighting Vader, he snaps when Vader threatens Leia. When telling his story about what happened with Kylo, this is a quote of what he narrates. 

"I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. *He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become.* And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him."

It completely parallels the Vader scene, except this time, he DID resist himself without any prodding. 

3) I'm not getting your 3rd point at all. I'm not saying subversion is a great storytelling device, but it was clearly made in response to the backlash that TFA was too safe. But is this even a response to what I said? Is showing the Resistance being morally ambiguous a subversion? Rian Johnson has an overarching theme in his movie that goes beyond just subverting...and is he really in 'Hollywood jail'? How do you know this? Is he struggling getting work now? Has his new trilogy been cancelled yet? 

4) So Luke learned to communicate with the Dead and that was how he was able to see their ghosts? Doesn't that kind of contradict Obi Wan's "Strike me down and I will become powerful than you can ever imagine" line (which I assumed was referring to immortality)...and does that mean somehow Luke learned this before even meeting Yoda, as Obi Wan speaks to him in Episode 4? Or am I just misunderstanding you? 

5) 'He has no reason to lie...unless he has a gun pointed at him' IS a reason to lie though, so you can't trust anything he says anymore. Or at the absolute least, you can't say he has 'a man of his own heart and he has no reason to lie'...and then give a reason for him to lie. 

6) Once again, an 'ass-pull' can be relative. In TFA, Kylo Ren seems to know Rey, giving a possible clue into her past. In TLJ, it turns out he didn't. Plot Hole? Maybe. But it can be filled by saying he's attracted to her. Would that be a stretch, especially considering how he keeps trying to get her to join him? Give a plot hole and I can probably fill it. I listed holes of the PT, so why don't you try the NT and we'll see what excuses I can make for that. Or you can watch "Carnosaur 3: Primal Species" and then everything will make sense. *Everything. *


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 24, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Did...Did you just try to school me on the Zatoichi movies?
> 
> The Zatoichi movies worked for two reasons, the first being that they came during some interesting transitional periods when it came to visual experimentation, the 2nd being that each movie was built around a perfectly cast, fascinating character. But I say this as someone who owns most of the franchise, even that was often dangerously close to growing stale.
> 
> ...


If by moving forward you mean moving beyond light and dark and embracing the Benedicio del Toro view of the galaxy in the main trilogy i utterly disagree.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 24, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> 1) Oi, as I keep saying, it's all about story progression. If you're going to do a Vader prequel, you need to make his progression into becoming Vader feel natural. Saying it happened off-screen is a big cop-out, as I can easily say Luke's fall happened off-screen too. Would that make you any less pissed off about how TLJ presented Luke? As for my age, I'm a little younger than Return of the Jedi...Too old...and it was a serious controversy, even if you somehow missed it. Ask around.


Holy shit, the cherry picking 
What you are saying doesnt make sense.

Vaders nature and stoic mannerisms where already there in EP 3. Just as his youth rage was starting to be left behind, It is aready fully gone in ep 4. Which is completely Natural. Note that this is character behaviour. NOT actions like those of Luke.

Oh I already did, and no one thinks like you do. Honestly I doubt they believe what you are saying since not many folks - specially normies - know what's character assasination. So I believe you are just making it up.



> 2) The problem is saying 'can't be defended' is purely subjective. Not everyone hates this movie and as intense as the backlash has been, most people still do put it above the prequels. I'm also not 'justifying Luke's character assassination', because I don't think he suffered from character assassination. In fact, why are we calling this 'character assassination' because in the context of either Luke or Anakin, the definition is wrong. And the 'he tried to kill Vader' doesn't work in this context? It shows how easily he can give into his darker impulses, which was the whole point of him being tempted to kill Ben. When fighting Vader, he snaps when Vader threatens Leia. When telling his story about what happened with Kylo, this is a quote of what he narrates.


"most people put it above the prequels"? who? the same people that you say “Vader suffered character assasination?” So, that means die hard haters of the prequels are the people that you have been near? If you say you are just a little younger than return of the jedi that would make total sense, those manchildren are the same ones made songs about "how George ruined my childhood and the washed up loosers of RLM?" this is disgusting.


When a movie sucks in all levels it really cant be defended, maybe you can find a way to justify it for yourself but when it recieves massive backlash and it is flawed as fuck then it’s pointless. 



> "I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. *He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become.* And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him."
> It completely parallels the Vader scene, except this time, he DID resist himself without any prodding.


And here you say you arent a fan of TLJ.  It's alright, you dont have to pretend no more.
That is some pretty bad writting too.


> 3) I'm not getting your 3rd point at all. I'm not saying subversion is a great storytelling device, but it was clearly made in response to the backlash that TFA was too safe. But is this even a response to what I said? Is showing the Resistance being morally ambiguous a subversion? Rian Johnson has an overarching theme in his movie that goes beyond just subverting...and is he really in 'Hollywood jail'? How do you know this? Is he struggling getting work now? Has his new trilogy been cancelled yet?


TFA was copy paste of EP 4.
TLJ began pre-production during the production of TFA so what you say is partly false.
I heard from a very reliable source, what do you think Rian is doing in the meantime? No one wants to hire him and Disney will find a way to make him step down voluntarly as he leaves the spot for J.J. No one wants to be associated with the guy that killed all interest in starwars, let alone killed luke skywalker. In short, his triology wont happen and no one wants to hire him.



> 4) So Luke learned to communicate with the Dead and that was how he was able to see their ghosts? Doesn't that kind of contradict Obi Wan's "Strike me down and I will become powerful than you can ever imagine" line (which I assumed was referring to immortality)...and does that mean somehow Luke learned this before even meeting Yoda, as Obi Wan speaks to him in Episode 4? Or am I just misunderstanding you?


How does it contradict itself? It's pretty obvious. Becoming one with the force and thus beeing able to commune with the living.
I told you, that you need to know this power in life for you to project yourself others or being able to see others that do not know this training necesarily. Or maybe he really IS that powerful to the point he can project to luke without him having that training.



> 5) 'He has no reason to lie...unless he has a gun pointed at him' IS a reason to lie though, so you can't trust anything he says anymore. Or at the absolute least, you can't say he has 'a man of his own heart and he has no reason to lie'...and then give a reason for him to lie.


He wont lie when it doesnt have to do with business in this instance  "disney" because that's how disney behaves. If you open your mouth to shat on the mouse, it will threaten to ruin you.
How is this hard to understand? Literally my 10 year old nephew gets it.



> 6) Once again, an 'ass-pull' can be relative. In TFA, Kylo Ren seems to know Rey, giving a possible clue into her past. In TLJ, it turns out he didn't. Plot Hole? Maybe. But it can be filled by saying he's attracted to her. Would that be a stretch, especially considering how he keeps trying to get her to join him? Give a plot hole and I can probably fill it. I listed holes of the PT, so why don't you try the NT and we'll see what excuses I can make for that. Or you can watch "Carnosaur 3: Primal Species" and then everything will make sense. *Everything. *


I would say they are retcons or a fine example of the clusterfuck that the sequel triology is. The PT however did have an outline and followed a plan, it may not have been soundly executed but it requires you to use your brains to connect dots, because it is mostly aimed to a very obsessive fan base.

I think your problem is that you have watched so many shit movies like carnosaur, that you have basically have lost all common sense, taste and subtlety because those b movies have None. 
It's pitiful, why would I waste my time watching shit like that? Now if you like B movies so much why dont you make some? Or work for Roger corman, I could arrange that but even the people that work on his shit acknowledge how shit those movies are and how is it even more shit the working experience is with him as it goes beyond exploitation.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Mar 24, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Holy shit, the cherry picking
> What you are saying doesnt make sense.



1) Point out exactly what doesn't make sense and I will literally spell it out for you...although I guess I am already kind of doing that as I am typing these responses. You keep saying this over and over again though. And did you seriously just accuse me of making shit up for the sake of a stupid internet argument? I'm not the only one who pointed out the backlash Anakin's portrayal received, so do you really think we're conspiring against you? Jesus Christ, dude. 

2) Seriously, Suigetsu, what is wrong with you? Are you just being a troll? I thought we were done with these personal jabs and now you're attacking my age group? Yes, genius, I grew up with people who also hated the prequels BECAUSE WE WERE BEING RELEASED DURING MY CHILDHOOD! AND WE ALL HATED THEM. As for more people holding it in a higher regard than the prequels, look at Rotten Tomatoes, Cinemascore and imdb. The only counter point is the audience score on RT, which by the way, might've been hacked. I'm not saying any of these are absolute, but they're more credible than a guy named Suigetsu saying otherwise. 

3) I have said I am a fan of TLJ. Why are you acting like I'm pretending otherwise? I have been debating with everyone here because I am a fan of TLJ. I took issue with you accusing me of 'shamelessly shilling' the movie. Oh wait, sorry. I totally understood why you decided to fall back on that, as you completely chose to ignore that issue. You accuse me of 'cherry picking', but instead of responding to my explanation as to why Luke's behavior in TLJ was at least somewhat consistent with his behavior in RotJ, you call me...a fan...Great debating skills, dude. 

4) Yeah I totally believe your 'reliable sources' dude. Even if Hollywood was pissed at Johnson, if Josh Trank can get a job after the "Fantastic Four" debacle, Rian Johnson will be fine. And didn't reports come out saying that Johnson threw out the J.J Abrams treatment? 

5) I want you to say that George Lucas is a liar, because he has praised TLJ and you think he has only said it because he was 'afraid of the mouse'...even though in other posts you say 'he has no reason to lie'. Why is this so difficult for you? I'm not even saying that you're wrong, as Lucas probably does not want to piss off the Mouse. But I don't mind saying it. I just want you to say it.

6) I do watch other movies beyond schlocky B-films, as I try to check out films from all time periods, all countries and all ranges of quality, thank you very much. And thank you for continuing these personal taunts, as they show your points have run out of substance and that is all you can resort to. You didn't even realize that my Carnosaur references were intended to break up the mounting tension, as I enjoy debates. Not dick swinging contests. 

I would rather do this with Ben Grimm, who is reasonable or Fang, who does know what he's talking about even if we don't see eye to eye or that guy who thought Holdo was a Social Justice Warrior...because at least he was funny.


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## Gaiash (Mar 24, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> When a movie sucks in all levels it really cant be defended, maybe you can find a way to justify it for yourself but when it recieves massive backlash and it is flawed as fuck then it’s pointless.


So what you're saying is TLJ doesn't suck on all levels because people like me and MartialHorror are defending it.



Suigetsu said:


> No one wants to be associated with the guy that killed all interest in starwars


Fortunately that guy doesn't exist. Every Star Wars movie has increased someone's interest in Star Wars, even that Clone Wars pilot movie since that show ended up being really popular.



Suigetsu said:


> I think your problem is that you have watched so many shit movies like carnosaur, that you have basically have lost all common sense, taste and subtlety because those b movies have None.


MartialHorror is the person with the most common sense in this thread.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> So what you're saying is TLJ doesn't suck on all levels because people like me and MartialHorror are defending it.


No, I said that the movie sucks on all levels, and it is very unlikely to defend it without being bias because of that. Which in the end it's just trying to justify it to yourself.


> Fortunately that guy doesn't exist. Every Star Wars movie has increased someone's interest in Star Wars, even that Clone Wars pilot movie since that show ended up being really popular.


You sure live under a rock, people are already relaizing that this isnt star wars anymore but a disney flick. You dont seem to understand what was SW pre and post sellout.



> MartialHorror is the person with the most common sense in this thread.


And this is coming from someone that likes TLJ and the Ghost busters reboot?


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## Suigetsu (Mar 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> 1) Point out exactly what doesn't make sense and I will literally spell it out for you...although I guess I am already kind of doing that as I am typing these responses. You keep saying this over and over again though. And did you seriously just accuse me of making shit up for the sake of a stupid internet argument? I'm not the only one who pointed out the backlash Anakin's portrayal received, so do you really think we're conspiring against you? Jesus Christ, dude.


My god, the mental gymnastics and ad hominems.
Dude I already spelled it out for you, spoonfed you. What else do you want me to do? regurgitate it into your mouth like a newborn chick? Perhaps you trolling me? Because there is no fucking way someone can be this dense. You are comparing a characters behaviour change that jumps from a young adult into an old adult to someone that has a brutal shift of characterization. And yes, only you and your ghost busters buddie seem to be the ones that supposedly "scandalized about" Anakin's portrayal in the prequels.



> 2) Seriously, Suigetsu, what is wrong with you? Are you just being a troll? I thought we were done with these personal jabs and now you're attacking my age group? Yes, genius, I grew up with people who also hated the prequels BECAUSE WE WERE BEING RELEASED DURING MY CHILDHOOD! AND WE ALL HATED THEM. As for more people holding it in a higher regard than the prequels, look at Rotten Tomatoes, Cinemascore and imdb. The only counter point is the audience score on RT, which by the way, might've been hacked. I'm not saying any of these are absolute, but they're more credible than a guy named Suigetsu saying otherwise.



I am not attacking your age group, just making an interesting observation about it. The same argument could be said about the kids that grew up with the prequels. Not saying they where good movies but to see grown ups getting this upset about a bunch of movies for kids it's just perplexing. Did that series of movies really defined all of your childhood?
I grew up with jurassic park in the 90's, did Jurassic park 3 or JW ruined my childhood? fuck no. I just dismiss them by the pieces of corporate trash that they are.

But the icing on the cake is even believing the score on RT "was hacked" so who did it? The russians? the alt right? 4chan trolls? Rotten tomatoes already said it is legit. But for you it is hard to believe despite all the backlash.



> 3) I have said I am a fan of TLJ. Why are you acting like I'm pretending otherwise? I have been debating with everyone here because I am a fan of TLJ. I took issue with you accusing me of 'shamelessly shilling' the movie. Oh wait, sorry. I totally understood why you decided to fall back on that, as you completely chose to ignore that issue. You accuse me of 'cherry picking', but instead of responding to my explanation as to why Luke's behavior in TLJ was at least somewhat consistent with his behavior in RotJ, you call me...a fan...Great debating skills, dude.



First you said you where not and now you say that you are? You cant even keep yourself coherent. And you even had the audacity to say that you wherent shilling the movie because you wherent a fan of it. I explained why your argument made no sense, and all you did was kept repeating the same thing. This is when I knew you where deliberately wasting my time, cause you are used to be - le movie conossieur.



> 4) Yeah I totally believe your 'reliable sources' dude. Even if Hollywood was pissed at Johnson, if Josh Trank can get a job after the "Fantastic Four" debacle, *Ryan J. will be fine.* And didn't reports come out saying that Johnson threw out the J.J Abrams treatment?



Apparently he did throw away Abrahams treatment for his SJW TLJ but that dont matter, he kept seeing the dailies and went on doing his own thing. And look how "well it turned out". As for Josh Trank, he just got himself doing pre-production for an indie movie. So he is still in Hollywood jail, honestly if this movie of his doesnt do well, he is done for.

Heck even Guillermo Del Toro got into movie jail after fucking mimic, But he made a comeback with Devil's backbone - which is an actual good movie - and proved he could do action flicks with Blade 2. The rest is history. Cant say the same about Josh trank because Del Toro it's an obsessive bastard and Cronos was awesome.



> 5) *I want you to say *that George Lucas is a liar, because he has praised TLJ and you think he has only said it because he was 'afraid of the mouse'...even though in other posts you say 'he has no reason to lie'. Why is this so difficult for you? I'm not even saying that you're wrong, as Lucas probably does not want to piss off the Mouse. But I don't mind saying it. I just want you to say it.



Why?
You have taken enough time from me already, having to spoon feed you, and yet on top of that you have the audacity to make demands from me? 



> 6) I do watch other movies beyond schlocky B-films, as I try to check out films from all time periods, all countries and all ranges of quality, thank you very much. And thank you for continuing these personal taunts, as they show your points have run out of substance and that is all you can resort to. You didn't even realize that my Carnosaur references were intended to break up the mounting tension, as I enjoy debates. Not dick swinging contests.


I am glad you do, perhaps we should have a discussion about none sci-fi murrican films sometime. Anyways, sorry but  - and you can ask this to anyone that knows me in this website - when people start spinning the same questions and arguments even after I literallyexplained with apples and pears the answers to them, I have a certianamount of patience. Because I could just ignore the reply and go do something more fun on these message boards, but instead I give you the  priviledge of me giving my time to you, Just like in this instance - wasting my time on dense people that are too dug in their bias, after all what do I win?

It is clear that your passion and heart lies in the edgy b movie field. Which is fine and makes perfect sense why you love TLJ. It's all about subverting expectations and be edgy about stuff. However If you try to justify it to people like it is the great truth then get ready to face reality. Specially if you want some of my precious time.



> I would rather do this with Ben Grimm, who is reasonable or Fang, who does know what he's talking about even if we don't see eye to eye or that guy who thought Holdo was a Social Justice Warrior...because at least he was funny.


Well, clearly I know more about this things that you could stomach. Anyways, Concession accepted.


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## Gaiash (Mar 25, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> No, I said that the movie sucks on all levels, and it is very unlikely to defend it without being bias because of that. Which in the end it's just trying to justify it to yourself.


You said a movie that sucks on all levels "really cant be defended" so the fact The Last Jedi is being defended means it can't apply. And no our arguments aren't trying to justify it to ourselves. I have plenty of friends who liked the movie, my family liked the movie and I've seen a lot of comments, reviews and videos from people who liked the movie. I don't need to justify my opinion on a movie.



Suigetsu said:


> You sure live under a rock, people are already relaizing that this isnt star wars anymore but a disney flick. You dont seem to understand what was SW pre and post sellout.


I rewatched every canon Star Wars movie leading up to the release of The Last Jedi, I'm well aware of what the films were like before Disney. Also if you think that was Star Wars selling out you're a fool, Star Wars has always been a sellout.

And of course you missed the fact that my point was every Star Wars has increased someone's interest and that because there are people who did like The Last Jedi it made us more excited about what happens next. So "the guy that killed all interest in starwars" doesn't exist.



Suigetsu said:


> And this is coming from someone that likes TLJ and the Ghost busters reboot?


I said they had the most common sense out of the people in this thread not the best taste in movies, that's obviously me.



Suigetsu said:


> And yes, only you and your ghost busters buddie seem to be the ones that supposedly "scandalized about" Anakin's portrayal in the prequels.


I didn't really mention having issues with Anakin's portrayal in the prequels. While I do I wouldn't describe it as "character assassination" I'm aware people who hated the prequels would and that was the point of bringing them up. And if you genuinely don't think people have been making this argument you're the one that's been living under a rock.



Suigetsu said:


> Apparently he did throw away Abrahams treatment for his SJW TLJ but that dont matter, he kept seeing the dailies and went on doing his own thing.


He didn't throw anything out, he wasn't given a plan for it. He was given the script for The Force Awakens and asked what happens next.
4:55 if you just want to skip to the part that covers this.[/QUOTE]


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I rewatched every canon Star Wars movie leading up to the release of The Last Jedi, I'm well aware of what the films were like before Disney. Also if you think that was Star Wars selling out you're a fool, Star Wars has always been a sellout.


A truly global mainstream brand, none of this identity politicking bullshit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gaiash (Mar 25, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> A truly global mainstream brand, none of this identity politicking bullshit.


You're supposed to keep the fact you don't like the movies because you don't like progressive politics secret.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You're supposed to keep the fact you don't like the movies because you don't like progressive politics secret.


What makes you think if i was a progressive i would like it?


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## Mider T (Mar 25, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> orogressive

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 2


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## Fang (Mar 25, 2018)

DIDF is pretty sad


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## MartialHorror (Mar 25, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> My god, the mental gymnastics and ad hominems.
> Dude I already spelled it out for you, spoonfed you. What else do you want me to do? regurgitate it into your mouth like a newborn chick? Perhaps you trolling me? Because there is no fucking way someone can be this dense. You are comparing a characters behaviour change that jumps from a young adult into an old adult to someone that has a brutal shift of characterization. And yes, only you and your ghost busters buddie seem to be the ones that supposedly "scandalized about" Anakin's portrayal in the prequels.



Characters behavior change from a young adult to an old adult? Are you talking about Anakin or Luke? And I want you to think about that question, because I actually know who you're referring too...It's just that Luke ended "Return of the Jedi" as a young adult, just as Anakin ended "Revenge of the Sith" as a young adult...and then they both grew old, so if Anakin grew into Vader, Luke from the OT grew into Luke from the NT. 




> I am not attacking your age group, just making an interesting observation about it. The same argument could be said about the kids that grew up with the prequels. Not saying they where good movies but to see grown ups getting this upset about a bunch of movies for kids it's just perplexing. Did that series of movies really defined all of your childhood?
> I grew up with jurassic park in the 90's, did Jurassic park 3 or JW ruined my childhood? fuck no. I just dismiss them by the pieces of corporate trash that they are.



No, you were attacking it and "making an interesting observation about it" is just being passive aggressive...and are you referring to me personally or my age group in regards to the prequels 'ruining my childhood'? If I ever felt Lucas was 'ruining my childhood', it was when he started doing the Special Editions, as he was ruining the movies that played a big part of my childhood. But I never felt passionate about the prequels either way, because I can always just...not watch them if I don't like them? As for my age group, every age group pulls that 'my age group is better' nonsense. Whether we overreacted or not, Lucas technically made those movies for my age group. And are we going to invalidate the opinions of an entire age group? 



> But the icing on the cake is even believing the score on RT "was hacked" so who did it? The russians? the alt right? 4chan trolls? Rotten tomatoes already said it is legit. But for you it is hard to believe despite all the backlash.



I said they might've been hacked, not that they were. Some alt-right group claimed they did so. I don't know if it's true or not, but I find it amusing that that's the only part you chose to respond about. 





> First you said you where not and now you say that you are? You cant even keep yourself coherent. And you even had the audacity to say that you wherent shilling the movie because you wherent a fan of it. I explained why your argument made no sense, and all you did was kept repeating the same thing. This is when I knew you where deliberately wasting my time, cause you are used to be - le movie conossieur.



Why don't you find this quote where I said I'm not a fan of TLJ? 




> Apparently he did throw away Abrahams treatment for his SJW TLJ but that dont matter, he kept seeing the dailies and went on doing his own thing. And look how "well it turned out". As for Josh Trank, he just got himself doing pre-production for an indie movie. So he is still in Hollywood jail, honestly if this movie of his doesnt do well, he is done for.
> 
> Heck even Guillermo Del Toro got into movie jail after fucking mimic, But he made a comeback with Devil's backbone - which is an actual good movie - and proved he could do action flicks with Blade 2. The rest is history. Cant say the same about Josh trank because Del Toro it's an obsessive bastard and Cronos was awesome.



"and look how well it turned out"- I know, because pissing off a guy named Suigetsu is definitely the end of the world. "The Mimic" was a failure. You are right that Trank is on thin ice, but contrary to what you might want to believe, "The Last Jedi"- while maybe a disappointment- was not a failure. It's just divicive and didn't live up to Disney's wild expectations. But Johnson's new trilogy has not been scrapped yet...although admittedly the fate of the "Han Solo" flick will probably determine there. There have been no reports of bad conduct or allowing the budget to spiral out of control and remember this...Disney seems to like him right now. They were so thrilled with what he did with TLJ that they signed him on for a standalone trilogy. Will this fall through? I don't know, but worse case scenario, Rian Johnson goes back to making the kinds of movies he was doing before. You keep indicating you have some insider information, but I'll just do what you did and say I don't believe you. I think you're making this up, because you're so biased against the movie and him. 



> Why?
> You have taken enough time from me already, having to spoon feed you, and yet on top of that you have the audacity to make demands from me?



Yup. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth here and this tells me you're biased to say otherwise. I don't know why either, as I respect George Lucas so much for the OT that even my disdain towards the PT doesn't compare to my love of Episode 4 alone- much less 5 and 6. But I don't have any real loyalty to him. I don't worship the guy. I completely understand why he'd lie about TLJ or TFA, but I'd call it for what it is...a lie. Why don't you? 




> I am glad you do, perhaps we should have a discussion about none sci-fi murrican films sometime. Anyways, sorry but  - and you can ask this to anyone that knows me in this website - when people start spinning the same questions and arguments even after I literallyexplained with apples and pears the answers to them, I have a certianamount of patience. Because I could just ignore the reply and go do something more fun on these message boards, but instead I give you the  priviledge of me giving my time to you, Just like in this instance - wasting my time on dense people that are too dug in their bias, after all what do I win?
> 
> It is clear that your passion and heart lies in the edgy b movie field. Which is fine and makes perfect sense why you love TLJ. It's all about subverting expectations and be edgy about stuff. However If you try to justify it to people like it is the great truth then get ready to face reality. Specially if you want some of my precious time.
> 
> Well, clearly I know more about this things that you could stomach. Anyways, Concession accepted.



I feel like you're just repeating the same points as I have in regards to my alleged approach to this debate, albeit with worse spelling, fewer facts and more personal barbs, as if my enjoyment (not even preference!) of B-movies has any part of this topic. But whatever keeps you going, dude.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 25, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You said a movie that sucks on all levels "really cant be defended" so the fact The Last Jedi is being defended means it can't apply. And no our arguments aren't trying to justify it to ourselves. I have plenty of friends who liked the movie, my family liked the movie and I've seen a lot of comments, reviews and videos from people who liked the movie. I don't need to justify my opinion on a movie.


 You can try to defend shit all you want but it is still shit, therefore shit cant be defended because that’s what it is. Yes that’s your opinion, meaning you have shit taste.



> I rewatched every canon Star Wars movie leading up to the release of The Last Jedi, I'm well aware of what the films were like before Disney. Also if you think that was Star Wars selling out you're a fool, Star Wars has always been a sellout.


When george owned it it was creative and had heart in it, it made money to support itself. Now it’s literally whoring out interest from people, merchandise is tanking and more people are leaving the ship than the SJW boarding it. SW movies used to be an event, not a yearly wanabe marvek flick.



> And of course you missed the fact that my point was every Star Wars has increased someone's interest and that because there are people who did like The Last Jedi it made us more excited about what happens next. So "the guy that killed all interest in starwars" doesn't exist.


 literally what can happen next? RJ shat on everything interesting, only reylo shippers are interested on the new flick, which I am sure you are. Yes, there is so much interest in TLJ to the point that it’s merchandise bombed.



> I said they had the most common sense out of the people in this thread not the best taste in movies, that's obviously me.


Believe what you want, TLJ defeders got BtFO with facts despite their need to make mental gymnastics. I presented facts, common sense and knew my facts.



> And if you genuinely don't think people have been making this argument you're the one that's been living under a rock.


I could say the same about you 
 Oh btw here is the article:


Funny how your “argument” contradicts that of martial horror. 

And lastly, learn how to properly quote, you cant even quote properly. So feel priviledged that I even gave you my time to answer you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Mar 26, 2018)

Home media release tomorrow.

Anyone buying it?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 26, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Home media release tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone buying it?


Hah! As if!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Mar 26, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Home media release tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone buying it?



I'll be buying it, both for the movie and for the special features.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 26, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> You can try to defend shit all you want but it is still shit, therefore shit cant be defended because that’s what it is. Yes that’s your opinion, meaning you have shit taste.


I think he has on okay taste as someone who watched his youtube channel for half a year but he is royally wrong about this one.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Mar 26, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Home media release tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone buying it?


Buy it? I regret paying to see it  in theaters.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## Gaiash (Mar 26, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> only reylo shippers are interested on the new flick, which I am sure you are.


Nope, I'm not really invested in the shipping side of the discussion. My ships are mostly just from animated franchises.



Suigetsu said:


> Believe what you want, TLJ defeders got BtFO with facts despite their need to make mental gymnastics. I presented facts, common sense and knew my facts.


What facts? All your arguments against the film are things that can be solved by paying attention to the movie. That's not "mental gymnastics". And people who unironically use the term "sjw" don't have any common sense so I can't see how you used any.



Suigetsu said:


> Funny how your “argument” contradicts that of martial horror.


Because our perspectives are different and we disagree on several details.



Suigetsu said:


> And lastly, learn how to properly quote, you cant even quote properly. So feel priviledged that I even gave you my time to answer you.


There is no proper way to quote different points on this site. Different people use different methods.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 26, 2018)

I'm with China. This franchise has too many ugly actors atm.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Mar 26, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> I'm with China. This franchise has too many ugly actors atm.


Ugly is so hot right now. Especially ugly women.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 26, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> I'm with China. This franchise has too many ugly actors atm.


If I had directed the clusterfuck, I would have casted Ana de Armas as Jaina solo and boom daddy! Instant cash flow from china, and merchandise. But remember, SJW cant have any hot women lest they'll feel insecure as fuck. 

*Spoiler*: __ 





  Playing this character, the grand daughter of Lord Vader:




but instead we got ugly annoying people the movie.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 26, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> What facts? All your arguments against the film are things that can be solved by paying attention to the movie. That's not "mental gymnastics". And people who unironically use the term "sjw" don't have any common sense so I can't see how you used any.


The movie it's a political message of current western leftists. Have you even seen Rian J's GF? she is a complete SJW. She even has shirts that say "ask about my political agenda"
The movie itself makes no sense which is why people is tearing it appart. That's why it makes sense to you and to - le movie conossieur - because you apply your mental gimnastics to justify a trainwreck.




> Because our perspectives are different and we disagree on several details.


Consession accepted.


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## Gaiash (Mar 26, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> The movie it's a political message of current western leftists. Have you even seen Rian J's GF? she is a complete SJW. She even has shirts that say "ask about my political agenda"


It's funny you're saying all this like it's a bad thing.



Suigetsu said:


> The movie itself makes no sense which is why people is tearing it appart.


In other words you didn't understand it. I understood the movie just fine the first time I watched it, the only thing the rewatch changed was now I knew where to look for specific visual details I didn't notice the first time.



Suigetsu said:


> That's why it makes sense to you and to - le movie conossieur - because you apply your mental gimnastics to justify a trainwreck.


And what are these "mental gymnastics" you're talking about?


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## Mider T (Mar 26, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> The movie it's a political message of current western leftists. Have you even seen Rian J's GF? she is a complete SJW. She even has shirts that say "ask about my political agenda"


Oh shit, nobody let Kamal Hassan or whatever the fuck his name is hear about this!

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 27, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> It's funny you're saying all this like it's a bad thing.



Why would you see that as an inherently good thing exactly?



Mider T said:


> Oh shit, nobody let Kamal Hassan or whatever the fuck his name is hear about this!



Because?

He can get pegged, whipped and walk around begging other men to fuck his gf but his identity clearly ended up in the most mainsztream franchise in the history of the world.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## dr_shadow (Mar 27, 2018)

It's out on iTunes.

No Netflix yet, tho.


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## Suigetsu (Mar 27, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> I'll be buying it, both for the movie and for the special features.



To listen to Ryan J's annoying voice? He sounds like a bunch of people where jizzing on his thread while he speaks.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 27, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> , dude.


In which movie does Zatoichi fart on some creepers who were spying on him while he was having sex?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Mar 27, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In which movie does Zatoichi fart on some creepers who were spying on him while he was having sex?



Zatoichi and the Festival of Fire?

I could be wrong about that, as it's been awhile since I've seen it and I've always had difficulties differentiating half of the franchise. I seem to remember that scene being in one of the 70's and that one was the most...70's-ish of the saga. Didn't that one also have Ichi being harassed by that flamboyant gay dude? 

Have you seen the T.V show? They're all like 1 hour long Zatoichi movies. I haven't seen every episode and some get a bit too experimental for my tastes, but considering they made like 100 of them, they were pretty stellar. 

I still haven't seen the newest Zatoichi flick ("Zatoichi: The Last"?), but I hear it's pretty weak. I did really like "Ichi" though, which is an implied sequel/soft reboot.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Mar 27, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Zatoichi and the Festival of Fire?
> 
> I could be wrong about that, as it's been awhile since I've seen it and I've always had difficulties differentiating half of the franchise. I seem to remember that scene being in one of the 70's and that one was the most...70's-ish of the saga. Didn't that one also have Ichi being harassed by that flamboyant gay dude?
> 
> ...


I only saw the Kitano film and a couple of the Katsu movies.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 27, 2018)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## MartialHorror (Mar 27, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I only saw the Kitano film and a couple of the Katsu movies.



They're all on hulu, I think. There's also an American remake called "Blind Fury", with Rutger Hauer. 

The franchise overall is strange because it maintains quality, but was slave to its own formula. The only differences after a certain point were stylistic, like how "The Tale of Zatoichi Continues" has an almost horror-inspired soundtrack...or how "Zatoichi and the Fugitives" goes for a bleaker tone. But there were multiple entries where Zatoichi felt inspired to assist a child and seemingly every other sequel had him befriend the warrior who would ultimately have him slay.

But "Star Wars" is a different beast because the Zatoichi franchise was Katsu, who kept it interesting even when they fell into a routine or became mediocre. Even though Kitano's film was alright, Kitano seemed to know this as his movie was more interested in the supporting cast than it was in the titular character, as even a master like Kitano couldn't do that role as well as Katsu. "Star Wars" is more about the setting, which is part of the reason why it's struggling right now, as any changes to the status quo will upset fans. They want to see things like X-Wings and ATAT's, or Jedi mind control and force telekinesis. Anything new will seem out of place. This has nothing to do with whether or not TLJ is good or not, but it does give it an advantage to where it can appeal to me, as I appreciated its attempts to do something different.

But it's also why I think Star Wars should slow down. The Marvel Cinematic Universe can release 1 (or more) films per year, as that's the type of franchise it established itself as and the formula has yet to really wear down the masses. Star Wars works best when you have a trilogy and maybe a spin-off film every 15 years or so, because when we don't mind as much when it follows a formula, as it's nice to see the formula in action once more...but it was never that original of a formula to begin with, so it starts to get old after awhile and yet without the formula, it's practically not a Star Wars film.

This is why I hope they do the Rian Johnson standalone trilogy, as he wouldn't have any obligation to an already established storyline like TFA, which I will admit caused issues with TLJ. Even if it's not good, it should be interesting, which is something I can't say about the upcoming Han Solo movie...at least based on the buildup to that...Everything about it looks, sounds and seems dull to me, except that one bad guy with the cool looking costume...That should've been Kylo Ren's design, lol. 

And...I'm rambling again.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Suigetsu (Mar 27, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> This is why I hope they do the Rian Johnson standalone trilogy


Yeah, that aint gonna happen.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Mar 27, 2018)

Rian Johnson should've stayed in his niche of making JGL starring vehicles where JGL has to beat up druggies or druggies from the future and JGL is always the coolest guy in the room.

Reactions: Like 2


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## U mad bro (Mar 27, 2018)

[video]


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Mar 28, 2018)




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## Fang (Apr 2, 2018)

God damn Ridley is ugly

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## dr_shadow (Apr 2, 2018)

Fang said:


> God damn Ridley is ugly



Women should only be in movies if they're hot.

Preferably naked.

Can't we get a Star Wars film starring a Twi'lek chick who's always naked?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 2, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Women should only be in movies if they're hot.
> 
> Preferably naked.
> 
> Can't we get a Star Wars film starring a Twi'lek chick who's always naked?


All male uggos are on streaming. All man give is hotties as leads...


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## dr_shadow (Apr 3, 2018)

Jesus, it's still playing in 150 theaters. 

Three per state.



Wrap it already so I can post the final gross and go home.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Apr 3, 2018)

Gonna get beaten by a B-tier Marvel hero

Rian Johnson the GOAT

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Apr 3, 2018)

Black don't crack

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 4, 2018)

Finn gonna be a long lost prince from the planet of Wokekanda in the ninth movie now.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Fang (Apr 4, 2018)

WE WUZ JEDI N' SHIEEEEEEEEEEEEET

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 4, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Jesus, it's still playing in 150 theaters.
> 
> Three per state.
> 
> ...



Must be Rainbow Cinemas or some equivalent.  Those theatres often keep certain shows going long after they rotate out of the big theatre.  It and other months-old movies i.e. movies now on DVD, are still being played at a local Rainbow Cinemas of mine.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 6, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Jesus, it's still playing in 150 theaters.
> 
> Three per state.
> 
> ...


Apparently disney got them into some mumbo jumbo deal that they had to play the damn thing for a certian amount of time. This is how really shit it is.


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## Rukia (Apr 6, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Jesus, it's still playing in 150 theaters.
> 
> Three per state.
> 
> ...


That’s a travesty.

Pull this piece of shit now!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Suigetsu (Apr 6, 2018)

Rukia said:


> That’s a travesty.
> 
> Pull this piece of shit now!


The biggest travesty is that there is still people paying to see that turd.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aeternus (Apr 7, 2018)

It's still on? Guess they will do anything to increase its revenue.


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## Lurko (Apr 7, 2018)

After I was done watching this movie, everybody started clapping after... I was like that really just happen...


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## Aeternus (Apr 7, 2018)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> After I was done watching this movie, everybody started clapping after... I was like that really just happen...


Yeah, same here. I was like "Did we even watch the same movie?" lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Lurko (Apr 7, 2018)

Luke pissed me of in that movie big time, people should have got the conor treatmeant.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 7, 2018)

The Force Awakens was in teaters for 24 weeks and played in 20 theatres during the final week.

The Last Jedi has been out 16 weeks and is playing in 109 teaters.

But for comparison, when TFA was in week 16 it was still playing in* 462 theatres*. It didn't reach a comparable figure (117) to TLJ until week 21. So TLJ is something like 5 weeks ahead of TFA, meaning it ought to wrap in 3 weeks.

In reality though they're probably gonna wait to pull it until the day before Solo opens (May 25).


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## Glued (Apr 7, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Yeah, same here. I was like "Did we even watch the same movie?" lol



We live in different times. Avengers was nothing more than everyone beating up Loki and looking like a badass. Killmonger was a breath of fresh air to the Marvel Universe.

Its a lot like Indian Cinema. The hero just stomps all over the villain. Indian movie goers love this stuff.

And why is that, because they are depressed. The entire world is in a state of depression and The Last Jedi gives an escape from this.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 7, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Jesus, it's still playing in 150 theaters.
> 
> Three per state.
> 
> ...


Not in the age of nu wars.


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## Gaiash (Apr 7, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Avengers was nothing more than everyone beating up Loki and looking like a badass.


Hulk was the only one who beat up Loki. Also the success of Avengers is because they had been building up to it since Iron Man's post-credit scene. It was a plan several years and movies in the making and it paid off and later this month we're going to see if that'll happen again.


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## Glued (Apr 7, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Hulk was the only one who beat up Loki. Also the success of Avengers is because they had been building up to it since Iron Man's post-credit scene. It was a plan several years and movies in the making and it paid off and later this month we're going to see if that'll happen again.



Sweeped by Captain America.
Gorilla Bench Pressed by Thor
Knocked out of a building by Iron Man
Hawkeye's arrow goes boom in his face
Utterly smashed by the Hulk
Even Coulson pwned Loki before his death.

Loki was absolutely pathetic.


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## Fang (Apr 7, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Sweeped by Captain America.
> Gorilla Bench Pressed by Thor
> Knocked out of a building by Iron Man
> Hawkeye's arrow goes boom in his face
> ...



This is because of Joss Whendon. He's more about making things look "cool" and neutering a story or character's standing and level just for humor and dumb shit like that. Loki in Thor 1 was basically able to fight on par with his brother, in Avengers he's reduced to being physically a joke when staked against his brother now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> We live in different times. Avengers was nothing more than everyone beating up Loki and looking like a badass. Killmonger was a breath of fresh air to the Marvel Universe.
> 
> Its a lot like Indian Cinema. The hero just stomps all over the villain. Indian movie goers love this stuff.
> 
> And why is that, because they are depressed. The entire world is in a state of depression and The Last Jedi gives an escape from this.



Watching The Last Jedi GAVE me depression.


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## The World (Apr 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> We live in different times. Avengers was nothing more than everyone beating up Loki and looking like a badass. Killmonger was a breath of fresh air to the Marvel Universe.
> 
> Its a lot like Indian Cinema. The hero just stomps all over the villain. Indian movie goers love this stuff.
> 
> And why is that, because they are depressed. The entire world is in a state of depression and The Last Jedi gives an escape from this.


that and people are brainless sheep


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> We live in different times. Avengers was nothing more than everyone beating up Loki and looking like a badass. Killmonger was a breath of fresh air to the Marvel Universe.
> 
> Its a lot like Indian Cinema. The hero just stomps all over the villain. Indian movie goers love this stuff.
> 
> And why is that, because they are depressed. The entire world is in a state of depression and The Last Jedi gives an escape from this.


Bahubali is better Star Wars than current Star Wars. It encourages India to be more like western civilisation, less rigid. All The Last Jedi does is shits all over Western civilization.


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## Glued (Apr 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Bahubali is better Star Wars than current Star Wars. It encourages India to be more like western civilisation, less rigid. All The Last Jedi does is shtis all over Western civilization.



Does Bahubali have a respectable villain?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Does Bahubali have a respectable villain?


 

This dude rapes Kylo puss easily. More charisma, more agression, tougher looking dude.


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## Glued (Apr 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> This dude rapes Kylo puss easily. More charisma, more agression, tougher looking dude.



Does he push the hero?
Does he kill the mentor?
Does he do any damage to the hero or his friends?
Does he get any victories?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Does he push the hero?
> Does he kill the mentor?
> Does he do any damage to the hero or his friends?
> Does he get any victories?


I think the answer is yes to all those but my memory is not perfect.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Bahubali is better Star Wars than current Star Wars. It encourages India to be more like western civilisation, less rigid. All The Last Jedi does is shits all over Western civilization.



All "The Last Jedi" does is 'shits all over Western Civilization'? I'm not even sure what this means...Are you actually getting some sort of political commentary out of the movie? Or are you just throwing around random insults? Because if this is the case, it diminishes your previous point about Bahubali. Or is this one of those anti-SJW things that only anti-SJW's understand?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> All "The Last Jedi" does is 'shits all over Western Civilization'? I'm not even sure what this means...Are you actually getting some sort of political commentary out of the movie? Or are you just throwing around random insults? Because if this is the case, it diminishes your previous point about Bahubali. Or is this one of those anti-SJW things that only anti-SJW's understand?



Are you actually getting some sort of political commentary out of the movie?

Sadly yeah.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Are you actually getting some sort of political commentary out of the movie?
> 
> Sadly yeah.



Care to elaborate? 

The Star Wars movies have always been political, with the prequels being more explicitly so, but I haven't gotten as much in the new wave...other than emphasizing the moral ambiguity of the Rebellion/Resistance and the slavery-is-bad message...which I would like to think we'd all agree with...In TFA, Hux goes full Hitler during a speech, but I can't help but wonder if J.J was just referencing the Nazi Influences of the Storm Troopers instead of making any sort of political statement. But just because I don't see it does not mean there isn't any, so I am genuinely curious. 

Although I swear to God, if you say "SJW", I will pee all over my computer...Wait a minute...


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## Ryxus of the North (Apr 9, 2018)

@

If you don't mind me chiming in while I lurk around, I have some thougts on that.

I do think the PC culture kinda ruined or at least made it worse (for me at least) the Last Jedi, I mean no offense but there whole shitty casino plot felt like they had to just come up with something for the black and asain characters to justify them being in the movie, even though that whole plot-line could go and nothing would literally change.

Also the whole stick about destroying the male characters.
As mentioned above Finn was wasted in this movie IMO, even though I wasn't a fan of him, I kinda saw some potential in him.
Poe was made into an idiot, because the female general made the stupid decision not to inform their people of the plan, who also had the be the one who sacrefices herself while Admiral Ackbar would have been a much better fit (also personal taste).

I don't even wanna go into what they did with Luke


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 9, 2018)



Reactions: Like 2


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## Gaiash (Apr 9, 2018)

Ryxus of the North said:


> I mean no offense but there whole shitty casino plot felt like they had to just come up with something for the black and asain characters to justify them being in the movie, even though that whole plot-line could go and nothing would literally change.


It fits into the general theme of failure. Finn and Rose failed to get the hacker they were looking for and the guy they did get instead only made things worse resulting in Holdo's plan failing too.



Ryxus of the North said:


> Also the whole stick about destroying the male characters.





Ryxus of the North said:


> Poe was made into an idiot, because the female general made the stupid decision not to inform their people of the plan


He was no longer in a position of command so there was no reason to inform him of the plan, because of his reckless actions at the start of the movie that resulted in a huge loss of valuable lives and valuable weapons.



Ryxus of the North said:


> who also had the be the one who sacrefices herself while Admiral Ackbar would have been a much better fit (also personal taste).


No because part of their distrust of each other comes from having never worked together before, Poe and Ackbar already worked together in The Force Awakens.



Ryxus of the North said:


> I don't even wanna go into what they did with Luke


Probably for the best, my counterpoints to your criticisms would just be a repeat of things I said earlier in the thread.


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## Mider T (Apr 9, 2018)

Ryxus of the North said:


> Also the whole stick about destroying the male characters.


Schtick*

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 9, 2018)

Ryxus of the North said:


> even though that whole plot-line could go and nothing would literally change.



Except that plot-line is essential to building up the eventual failure of Finn's, Rose's and Poe's plan.  It was also crucial for introducing DJ, and building on Finn's personal character arc.



Ryxus of the North said:


> Also the whole stick about destroying the male characters.



Showing characters to have significant flaws, sometimes fatal ones, does not qualify as "destroying the characters", and every character in "The Last Jedi" is shown to have some weakness or flaw, in one form or another.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 9, 2018)

do people still buy those?


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## Glued (Apr 9, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Showing characters to have significant flaws, sometimes fatal ones, does not qualify as "destroying the characters", and every character in "The Last Jedi" is shown to have some weakness or flaw, in one form or another.



Luke not helping Leia for years is such a fatal flaw that his character is now beyond redemption. A lot authors try to make a character edgy, and then try to redeem not realizing that they have gone too far. Like Kishimoto trying to redeem Sasuke.

Not only was the action of abandoning Leia for years a major flaw, but it flies in the face of his depiction In the OT. Not helping Leia for years isn't a moment of weakness.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 9, 2018)

> After that, Rian Johnson will premiere a brand new trilogy with entirely new characters and settings that will hopefully satisfy longtime fans, while creating a generation of new ones. It's a tough challenge to be sure, but Johnson seems game to take it on.
> entirely new characters



What could go wrong. I hope they're all as cool as Rose Tico.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> All "The Last Jedi" does is 'shits all over Western Civilization'? I'm not even sure what this means...Are you actually getting some sort of political commentary out of the movie? Or are you just throwing around random insults? Because if this is the case, it diminishes your previous point about Bahubali. Or is this one of those anti-SJW things that only anti-SJW's understand?


Do you always pretend to be clueless? or are you really hopeless? He means that this is a SJW libtard shitfest because it is, it has a libtard sjw agenda behind it and it is openly shown and display not only throught the movie but throught the organization of K.K.'s coven. But since you cant defend this shittrainwreck you result to "hurr durr, insults" PC culture is ebola.



> Nu- it's not political




>biggest drop off in the history of box office
>destroyed future chances of China market

Canto blight wasn't supposed to be a joke. Salt planet with Ross kamekazi kiss wasn't supposed to be a joke. Super Leah wasn't supposed to be a joke. The worst and stupidest parts of the movie weren't his failed attempts at humor, he is clueless as you are.


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## Mider T (Apr 10, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> do people still buy those?


In the millions.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 10, 2018)

@Ben Grimm And if Luke were involved from the start, what then?  

"The Force Awakens" implied Snoke and Kylo Ren were focused on looking for Luke more than concerning themselves directly with the Resistance, at the time. 

Luke's presence was a variable both ways: If Luke were involved with the Resistance from early on, there'd be zero reason for the First Order to leave the Resistance alone for so long.  It may have also given more worlds in the New Republic more incentive to support the Resistance, though that may also depend on how much more people would have associated Luke, a Jedi, with Darth Vader.  That is implied by _Bloodlines_, but we don't know.

Either way, Luke's presence would have caused escalation: either it would have caused the war to start _early_, or the First Order would have sent a First Order fleet to wipe out the Resistance in its nascence to get to Luke and then continue on with their business in secret. But again, we don't know.

Arguably, Luke hiding himself away gave the Resistance a chance to build up resources and gather info on the First Order's war machine, which is more than they would have gotten if the First Order went after them early.  Would this mean the First Order itself would not yet have been ready to blitzkrieg the entire galaxy?  Again, we don't know.

Imagine if Luke joined the Resistance, and his presence alongside them was enough to start the First-Order Resistance War early.  Imagine the war going on to 34 ABY _and then _the First Order unveils Starkiller Base.  The First Order could figure out where the main base for the New Republic Navy and the Resistance is and/or where Luke and Leia are, and wipe them out with Starkiller.

The video down below also offers another point of view:


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 10, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Except that plot-line is essential to building up the eventual failure of Finn's, Rose's and Poe's plan.  It was also crucial for introducing DJ, and building on Finn's personal character arc.


If Finn had an arc we would know why he left the First Order. He is black fat face Jar Jar.


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> @Ben Grimm And if Luke were involved from the start, what then?
> 
> "The Force Awakens" implied Snoke and Kylo Ren were focused on looking for Luke more than concerning themselves directly with the Resistance, at the time.
> 
> ...



Your argument amounts to that it was okay to throw away Luke's character for the sake of plot. 

Secondly, as a Jedi, Luke doesn't have to necessarily show his face. He could have worked undercover for Leia. He could have done something, anything. But the sad truth is that he just wasn't there. Luke and Han weren't there when Leia needed them. 

The video you posted is foolish and short sighted, because Luke already overcame his insecurities many years ago. They just threw him under the ringer again in order to rehash Luke rising above again only this time it is not poetry, its just repetition where none was needed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Apr 10, 2018)

That's not really political commentary though.


Suigetsu said:


> Do you always pretend to be clueless? or are you really hopeless? He means that this is a SJW libtard shitfest because it is, it has a libtard sjw agenda behind it and it is openly shown and display not only throught the movie but throught the organization of K.K.'s coven. But since you cant defend this shittrainwreck you result to "hurr durr, insults" PC culture is ebola.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did I insult him?

So what you're trying to say is...you don't know what political commentary is? I'm also not even sure you know what an SJW is, but that seems disturbingly common amongst...whatever anti-SJW's call themselves. I did laugh though when you made your 'point' by...using photos of the directors wife...Stay classy, dude.

I'm not even sure what the rest of your post is referring too, as I neither talk about the movies tone or it box office success/failure.

Okay, so serious question, what do you guys think being a 'Social Justice Warrior' is? Because all it is, is someone who is pushing socially progressive viewpoints to make themselves look good, not because they are actually passionate about it. How do you determine who is an SJW and who has genuine convictions? Or do you guys just look down on things like Civil Rights, Feminism, etc. just because SJW's usually get behind those stances? You guys waste far too much time and energy on this and every time you go on an SJW tirade, you just made yourselves look bad...especially when you don't seem to know what being an SJW is half of the time.

Also, just because a director has strong opinions about something, does not mean it will dominate his filmography. Would you call any of Rian Johnsons other films SJW propaganda? Most of this 'alleged SJW' stuff began in TFA. Also, George Lucas himself would be considered an SJW based on your standards.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gaiash (Apr 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> If Finn had an arc we would know why he left the First Order. He is black fat face Jar Jar.


Do people just use Jar Jar as a throw away term for "thing I don't like about Star Wars" now? Because every character people claim to be "the new Jar Jar" is disliked for reasons that aren't comparable to the reasons people disliked Jar Jar.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 10, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Do people just use Jar Jar as a throw away term for "thing I don't like about Star Wars" now? Because every character people claim to be "the new Jar Jar" is disliked for reasons that aren't comparable to the reasons people disliked Jar Jar.


Don't know, don't care, seemed to fit at the moment.


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## Mider T (Apr 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Don't know, don't care


True fans.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 10, 2018)

Mider T said:


> True fans.


Yeah, i went to ninja school and i stole my fandom badge from a secret jungle base when i was 16. Deal with it.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Yeah, i went to ninja school and i stole my fandom badge from a secret jungle base when i was 16. Deal with it.



I KNEW IT!


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Your argument amounts to that it was okay to throw away Luke's character for the sake of plot.



Which Luke, the one that was in the films, or the near-flawless demigod from the Expanded Universe given nearly every excuse for his behavior, including that time he willingly fell to the Dark Side because Palpatine scared him shitless?

This is not a Luke whose character remained frozen like a statue after the events of "Return of the Jedi"; this was a Luke whose character was greatly affected after a mistake and incident he blames himself for.  

Were you this nonplussed about it when "Force Awakens" came out, or was it only an issue after Rian Johnson had the unenviable task of explaining things to a group of people who just can't be pleased unless things fit their exact vision?

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 10, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Which Luke, the one that was in the films, or the near-flawless demigod from the Expanded Universe given nearly every excuse for his behavior, including that time he willingly fell to the Dark Side because Palpatine scared him shitless?
> 
> This is not a Luke whose character remained frozen like a statue after the events of "Return of the Jedi"; this was a Luke whose character was greatly affected after a mistake and incident he blames himself for.
> 
> Were you this nonplussed about it when "Force Awakens" came out, or was it only an issue after Rian Johnson had the unenviable task of explaining things to a group of people who just can't be pleased unless things fit their exact vision?




This is not a Luke whose character remained frozen like a statue after the events of "Return of the Jedi"; this was a Luke whose character was greatly affected after a mistake and incident he blames himself for.

And that is used to demistify Star Wars in general. In itself it might had been more excusable. They had such an easy job and they managed to fuck it up.

KOTOR and Republic Commando wildly diverged from the OT and Prequel vision and are beloved.

Who are these magical people you speak off?


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Which Luke, the one that was in the films, or the near-flawless demigod from the Expanded Universe given nearly every excuse for his behavior, including that time he willingly fell to the Dark Side because Palpatine scared him shitless?



Don't really care much for the EU, though there were some parts I liked.



> This is not a Luke whose character remained frozen like a statue after the events of "Return of the Jedi"; this was a Luke whose character was greatly affected after a mistake and incident he blames himself for.



And that decision ended up marking the rest of his life and shaping what type of man Luke Skywalker was, not a great man at all.

I would expect him to run out and try to help his sister as soon as Han died. 

Maybe he should have abandoned civilization for some sort of zen or messianic reason. If you're going to make Luke a hermit, at least make him an aloof thinker.

What is even worse is that he didn't train Rey in the same way as Yoda. He didn't guide her or anything. He only showed her the power of the force in one session and then he backed off as soon as he saw her going to the dark side. Rey trained herself. Even more insultingly Yoda told Luke that Rey didn't need the books.

And for the sake of argument, lets say Luke did give up in taking physical part in worldly affairs himself. He should have at least devoted himself to training Rey.

Luke passed on no wisdom to the new generation, no deep insight. Instead we see Yoda smacking Luke on the head. Luke remains the student.

Writing a coming of age story or bildungsroman is not that hard.



> Were you this nonplussed about it when "Force Awakens" came out, or was it only an issue after Rian Johnson had the unenviable task of explaining things to a group of people who just can't be pleased unless things fit their exact vision?



I didn't know what to expect from Luke and honestly gave the Force Awakens a pass, even though it felt kind of rushed. I'm not angry. Luke was never my favorite character. But I see the Last Jedi for what it is. A fundamentally bad story that ruined an epic space opera.

The journey of Rey is isn't an epic worth telling. She got one lesson and then she started training herself.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Rey trained herself. Even more insultingly Yoda told Luke that Rey didn't need the books.



So...You missed the part where the books were shown to be in the Falcon.

Yoda: "Yes, yes.  Wisdom _*they *_held, but _*that library*_ contained nothing that the girl Rey _*does not already possess*_."

The _books _held wisdom, and the library contained _nothing _because Rey took the books with her already.

As for what he did teach Rey, the lesson about the Force and the failures of the Jedi were most likely more important than him teaching her to rip a Star Destroyer out of the sky "Force Unleashed"-style.


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> As for what he did teach Rey, the lesson about the Force and the failures of the Jedi were most likely more important than him teaching her to rip a Star Destroyer out of the sky "Force Unleashed"-style.



That is not what I meant by wisdom. Yoda taught Luke that the Darkseid is always awaiting. Yoda taught Luke that do something he must first believe in himself. He taught Luke that war does not make one great. Obi Wan taught Luke to trust his feelings.

Rey ended up being the one to convince Luke to finally help.

Luke taught Rey nothing personally. Rey was the one that taught him not to give up on hope.

But I guess its alright that Rey has the books, who needs a teacher anyways.? /sarcasm.

Luke had problems lifting an x-wing, Rey was lifting numerous boulders all by herself.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Luke taught Rey nothing personally. Rey was the one that taught him not to give up on hope.
> 
> But I guess its alright that Rey has the books, who needs a teacher anyways.? /sarcasm.
> 
> .



Force Ghosts, presumably.


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Force Ghosts, presumably.



Hopefully the next film takes place years in the future. Rey only spent 2 days and 2 nights on that island.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 10, 2018)

This entire trilogy so far has taken place in less than two weeks.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ennoea (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hopefully the next film takes place years in the future. Rey only spent 2 days and 2 nights on that island.


And for most of it she was Star skyping emo twat.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Suigetsu (Apr 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So what you're trying to say is...you don't know what political commentary is? I'm also not even sure you know what an SJW is, but that seems disturbingly common amongst...whatever anti-SJW's call themselves. I did laugh though when you made your 'point' by...using photos of the directors wife.
> 
> 
> Also, just because a director has strong opinions about something, does not mean it will dominate his filmography. Would you call any of Rian Johnsons other films SJW propaganda? Most of this 'alleged SJW' stuff began in TFA. Also, George Lucas himself would be considered an SJW based on your standards.



As always you run aorund in circles to try and save yourself from the embarrasment of not knowing what you are talking about. Classic "le conossieur"
So according to you I dont know what SJW is, go on then. Tell us what it is then if TLJ isnt a SJW propaganda film.


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## Gaiash (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I would expect him to run out and try to help his sister as soon as Han died.


Seriously did any of you pay attention to the movie? Luke cut himself off from the force, he didn't know Han was dead and even asked where he was when Chewie showed up.



Ben Grimm said:


> What is even worse is that he didn't train Rey in the same way as Yoda.


Weren't people complaining about things in The Force Awakens being too similar to A New Hope? Why is Luke's training not being like Yoda's in Empire being listed as a criticism? The only reason anyone wanted that was to see Rey carry Luke on her back which we already got thanks to Daisy Ridley and Mark Hamill.




Ben Grimm said:


> He didn't guide her or anything. He only showed her the power of the force in one session and then he backed off as soon as he saw her going to the dark side. Rey trained herself. Even more insultingly Yoda told Luke that Rey didn't need the books.


Luke didn't want to teach her to be a Jedi, he wanted her to understand the force and his problems with the Jedi.


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Seriously did any of you pay attention to the movie? Luke cut himself off from the force, he didn't know Han was dead and even asked where he was when Chewie showed up.



When Chewie told him about Han, he should have gotten a ship and gone to see his sister.



> Weren't people complaining about things in The Force Awakens being too similar to A New Hope? Why is Luke's training not being like Yoda's in Empire being listed as a criticism? The only reason anyone wanted that was to see Rey carry Luke on her back which we already got thanks to Daisy Ridley and Mark Hamill.



Its called hard work and passing on your knowledge, learning from your elders. You know those with more experience.

Luke honestly can't even be called a real teacher.



> Luke didn't want to teach her to be a Jedi, he wanted her to understand the force and his problems with the Jedi.



Okay this is what Luke did, he put her on a stone, told her to meditate and see the island. She did that and as soon as she started going towards the Darkseid, he immediately backed off.

That is the sum total of Luke training Rey.


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## Gaiash (Apr 10, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> When Chewie told him about Han, he should have gotten a ship and gone to see his sister.


He eventually has his moment with Leia later in the film, he had other reasons not to leave and join with the resistance.



Ben Grimm said:


> Its called hard work and passing on your knowledge, learning from your elders. You know those with more experience.
> 
> Luke honestly can't even be called a real teacher.


Luke already failed as a Jedi teacher and was reluctant to even teach Rey the things he did teach her, calling him a bad teacher isn't really a criticism of the movie since that's the point.



Ben Grimm said:


> Okay this is what Luke did, he put her on a stone, told her to meditate and see the island. She did that and as soon as she started going towards the Darkseid, he immediately backed off.
> 
> That is the sum total of Luke training Rey.


The rest of his lessons weren't training, they were lectures about the Jedi and why they sucked.


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## Glued (Apr 10, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> He eventually has his moment with Leia later in the film, he had other reasons not to leave and join with the resistance.


Not good enough, his sister was in danger and fighting for her life and she had just lost her husband. He chose to mope about an island and drink green milk instead. That is the man Luke Skywalker became. There is absolutely nothing of the old Luke left, not one iota. There is such a thing as pushing the envelope too far.


> Luke already failed as a Jedi teacher and was reluctant to even teach Rey the things he did teach her, calling him a bad teacher isn't really a criticism of the movie since that's the point.



It is a detriment to the story in itself, Rey never had a teacher. She does everything by herself. If Luke had bothered to train her, then there would be a stronger bond between the two. His death would have had a more meaningful impact.

As I have stated before, the Tale of Rey isn't worth telling. It is good to have a hero work hard and learn from their elders. This gives validity to their growth.


> The rest of his lessons weren't training, they were lectures about the Jedi and why they sucked.



Catalyst asked me if I EU Luke would be better or Frozen in time Luke would be better. I responded by telling him anything would be better, like a zen Luke unattached to the world or a Luke that is at least willing to impart his knowledge.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 10, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> As always you run aorund in circles to try and save yourself from the embarrasment of not knowing what you are talking about. Classic "le conossieur"
> So according to you I dont know what SJW is, go on then. Tell us what it is then if TLJ isnt a SJW propaganda film.



Very well, I shall inform you what "The Last Jedi" actually is. Brace yourself though, as this is a shocker. "The Last Jedi" is actually...a popcorn flick, designed to make money...just as all of its predecessors were...Who would've guessed, right? But don't worry, I accept your concession.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Very well, I shall inform you what "The Last Jedi" actually is. Brace yourself though, as this is a shocker. "The Last Jedi" is actually...a popcorn flick, designed to make money...just as all of its predecessors were...Who would've guessed, right? But don't worry, I accept your concession.




WOW, guess who's salty now. 
YES YES,  it was so well designed for making money that it has been the one out of all the SW movies to make less money. It's merchandise flopped and China took it out in less than a week. To the point Soylo may be the last SW movie to brace china.

I accepted your concession first and I accept it again. You havent been able to defend nor prove squat.

*Spoiler*: __


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Very well, I shall inform you what "The Last Jedi" actually is. Brace yourself though, as this is a shocker. "The Last Jedi" is actually...a popcorn flick, designed to make money...just as all of its predecessors were...Who would've guessed, right? But don't worry, I accept your concession.


It's great that we have Transformers level brand management on a brand that already suffered from those sucky prequels.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 11, 2018)

lol, Salty Suigetsu, you gotta stop projecting yourself onto others.



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It's great that we have Transformers level brand management on a brand that already suffered from those sucky prequels.



Actually...as much as I really HATE to say this, the "Transformers" might be better managed as a whole because they're all mostly standalone storylines, so the feeling they're making it up as they go along is either lessened or it simply does not matter. I might like these new Star Wars flicks, but even I can't deny this trilogy wasn't planned out very well in advance...unless the rumors that Rey was going to be Anakin reincarnated were true, in which everything surrounding TLJ needed to happen just to avoid that shit...The Transformers movies haven't had the same behind-the-scenes problems that Star Wars has been having either. Say what you will about Michael Bay, but he knows how to run a set.


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## Gaiash (Apr 11, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Not good enough, his sister was in danger and fighting for her life and she had just lost her husband. He chose to mope about an island and drink green milk instead.


However if he went to her he'd be joining the fight, something he didn't want to do.



Ben Grimm said:


> That is the man Luke Skywalker became. There is absolutely nothing of the old Luke left, not one iota. There is such a thing as pushing the envelope too far.


The original trilogy was decades ago in-universe, people can drastically change in that amount of time and considering what we know about Luke's life in between movies the changes to him are understandable. And there are still traits of his old self left behind, he's just not being like that in front of Rey. You see old Luke in that scene with R2 in the Falcon.



Ben Grimm said:


> It is a detriment to the story in itself, Rey never had a teacher. She does everything by herself. If Luke had bothered to train her, then there would be a stronger bond between the two. His death would have had a more meaningful impact.


His death has an impact on the next generation. Rather than join the fight and get killed he distracted the First Order long enough for the Resistance to escape and the story of his fight with Kylo inspires the next generation of force users.



Ben Grimm said:


> As I have stated before, the Tale of Rey isn't worth telling. It is good to have a hero work hard and learn from their elders. This gives validity to their growth.


Or you just don't care for it, that doesn't mean it isn't worth telling. I think it's a good story because she has to learn things herself. She's not just another Jedi apprentice.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, Salty Suigetsu, you gotta stop projecting yourself onto others.



Salty? I aint the one defending and excusing this turd dump.


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## Gaiash (Apr 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Salty? I aint the one defending and excusing this turd dump.


Because how dare people enjoy a movie you didn't like.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Salty? I aint the one defending and excusing this turd dump.



But you're the one who seems to get mad about it.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because how dare people enjoy a movie you didn't like.


They could enjoy it for all i care if there was not all this weirdo progressive story wrecking bs.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because how dare people enjoy a movie you didn't like.


No one is saying you cant enjoy shit, just dont try to excuse it as something that is not. Like braaaap posters.


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## Gaiash (Apr 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> No one is saying you cant enjoy shit, just dont try to excuse it as something that is not. Like braaaap posters.


Except in our opinion it isn't shit so we're not "excusing it as something that it's not", we're disagreeing with you. Honestly the only reason I'm even having these debates is your complaints can easily be solved by watching the movie, if you still dislike it after that that's fine.


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## Glued (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> However if he went to her he'd be joining the fight, something he didn't want to do.



Its not about what he wanted to do, what he did was selfish and cowardly. Its not how you die, but how you live that defines who you are.



> The original trilogy was decades ago in-universe, people can drastically change in that amount of time and considering what we know about Luke's life in between movies the changes to him are understandable. And there are still traits of his old self left behind, he's just not being like that in front of Rey. You see old Luke in that scene with R2 in the Falcon.



Luke went through one traumatic moment and decided to go off and die. That isn't Luke. His scene with R2 on the Falcon was a cheap nostalgia call-back. He shouldn't have needed it to go help his sister. He needed constant pestering from Rey, guilt from R2, and a pep talk from Yoda to finally get off his ass and do something.



> His death has an impact on the next generation. Rather than join the fight and get killed he distracted the First Order long enough for the Resistance to escape and the story of his fight with Kylo inspires the next generation of force users.



By impact, I meant a personal one with Rey. Like Rocky and Mick.



> Or you just don't care for it, that doesn't mean it isn't worth telling. I think it's a good story because she has to learn things herself. She's not just another Jedi apprentice.



There is a reason tropes work, the tale of Rey is about a woman who survived in the desert by herself has all these amazing skills and somehow has the heart to protect a droid to the point of even starving herself.

Rey who barely even knew Han Solo somehow considers him a father figure.

Rey who never flew a ship in her life, somehow flipped over a ship and directed a stalled blaster.

Rey who began interrogating an experienced Force user when he tried to interrogate her.

Rey who mastered mind tricks on her third try.

Rey who for the most part doesn't need any guidance, she does everything herself.

Rey the hero who has to face Hux the incompetent, Snoke the arrogant and Kylo the emotional wreck. These are the villains that define Rey.

Rey who barely had any formal jedi training somehow manages to defeat Snoke's elite guard.

Rey who somehow lifts dozens of heavy boulders to free the resistance a few days after learning about the Force.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Except in our opinion it isn't shit so we're not "excusing it as something that it's not", we're disagreeing with you.


It is shit because it failed in everything it set up to do. If you think failures are succeses then you are either really biased or unrealistic. However if you like it you are entitled to your opinion, in this case it is shit. We know this becuse you like other garbage movies like sjwbusters.



> Honestly the only reason I'm even having these debates is your complaints can easily be solved by watching the movie, if you still dislike it after that that's fine.


Yeah, they make so much sense to the point that even to this day the guys at Lucasfilms are still struggling to excuse it. You failed to counter my complaints therefore you lost the "Argument" therefore I accepted your consession.


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## Gaiash (Apr 11, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> By impact, I meant a personal one with Rey. Like Rocky and Mick.


So your problem is that you had a dynamic you would have preferred and you're annoyed the movie didn't take that approach. If that's your problem that's fine just don't act like it had to be that way.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey who never flew a ship in her life, somehow flipped over a ship and directed a stalled blaster.


Rey said she'd flown ships before but she'd never left a planet.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey who began interrogating an experienced Force user when he tried to interrogate her.


He attacked her mind with the force, she fought back and as a result was able to look at his foughts. The whole point is to show how strong she is with the force.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey who for the most part doesn't need any guidance, she does everything herself.


But not very well.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey the hero who has to face Hux the incompetent, Snoke the arrogant and Kylo the emotional wreck. These are the villains that define Rey.


Kylo Ren the powerful emotional wreck in a position of power. Snoke and Hux aren't really tied to her specifically the same way Tarkin really wasn't Luke's villain, he was Leia's.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey who barely had any formal jedi training somehow manages to defeat Snoke's elite guard.


She still knew how to fight with a staff which she used against multiple opponents on Jakku, and she had help in that fight. People act like Jedi training is needed to know how to fight when the only character in the scene who had any was Kylo Ren.



Ben Grimm said:


> Rey who somehow lifts dozens of heavy boulders to free the resistance a few days after learning about the Force.


Because she's strong with the force, it awakened in her. It was kind of the title of the previous film.

Oh and Suigetsu I really can't take you seriously when you're unironically using the term "sjw".


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## MartialHorror (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash, don't bother, I've been through this before. Suigetsu is a master of the 'Straw Man' fallacy, where he thinks bringing up your opinions on other things= winning the debate, complete with a declaration that he was won the debate. He's just prodding you. Don't waste your time on this.

Ben Grimm deals with the specific issues and is more interested in discussing than flame baiting. For all the disagreements I have with Kabal, he is a true believer of this anti-SJW mentality and engaging with him can be somewhat meaningful. Suigetsu just wants to rile you up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Apr 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> So your problem is that you had a dynamic you would have preferred and you're annoyed the movie didn't take that approach. If that's your problem that's fine just don't act like it had to be that way.



I'm calling it weak. They try to build up moments such as Han showing Rey how to shoot a blaster and Luke showing her how to use the Force. Ultimately it looks fake and feels artificial. First rule of storytelling, show, don't tell. Kylo literally has to tell us that she sees Han as a father figure and is now attaching herself to Luke.



> He attacked her mind with the force, she fought back and as a result was able to look at his foughts. The whole point is to show how strong she is with the force.



Yep, while discrediting Kylo as a villain. One of the most intense scenes in the movie was when Kylo froze Rey and gripped her in fear. The very next scene where she starts interrogating him undercuts the previous scene.



> But not very well.


Not very well? You serious?

Knowing Han's ship better than he does.
Back flipping a ship and aiming a stalled blaster.
Defeating Snoke's bodyguards
Mind-Tricking on her third try
Speaking Wookie and droid
Being proficient in combat
Picking up multiple large boulders while Luke was struggling with rocks.

You can say that she doesn't do things very well, but apparently she does.



> Kylo Ren the powerful emotional wreck in a position of power. Snoke and Hux aren't really tied to her specifically the same way Tarkin really wasn't Luke's villain, he was Leia's



Vader carried Luke and made him who he is. The Emperor was whispering and trying to turn Luke to darkness and Luke almost killed Vader. But Luke proved himself better than that.

Snoke was able to toss Rey around, but was ultimately pointless.

Hux will be in the future film.

Cause right now Rey needs a villain who can actually measure up.



> She still knew how to fight with a staff which she used against multiple opponents on Jakku, and she had help in that fight. People act like Jedi training is needed to know how to fight when the only character in the scene who had any was Kylo Ren.



Aye she learned how to use a staff and goes into the use of a saber. She spent what, an entire day training by herself in Ahch Tu to use that saber?



> Because she's strong with the force, it awakened in her. It was kind of the title of the previous film.



Uh huh, that is not how the Force works. Training is required as established previously by Yoda training Luke.

Rey in a matter of weeks has been doing mind trick, interrogation, lifting massive boulders, aiming stalled blasters and whatever else is convenient.

Her only saving grace is that she isn't as ridiculous as young Anakin. Its been two movies and I just don't see Rey being challenged.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 11, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Knowing Han's ship better than he does.



Whenever this is brought up, it is as if people conveniently forget that Han didn't have the ship for _years, _and undesired modifications like the compressor (which Rey knew had been installed and was the _only thing she knew about the Falcon that Han didn't_) were added onto it.



Ben Grimm said:


> Back flipping a ship and aiming a stalled blaster.



Luke fires his one-in-a-million shot and Anakin being stated to have Jedi reflexes at the age of nine are okay, but it is somehow abhorrent for Rey to have similar reflexes or instinct.  



Ben Grimm said:


> Defeating Snoke's bodyguards



The Seventh Guard managed to overwhelm and almost best her on is own; Kylo Ren took on _three _Praetorians at once for an extended time, showed proficiency in using their own weapons against them (and putting the crossguards of his lightsaber to good use), was only overwhelmed when one managed to disarm him, and he killed five of the eight (three in the time Rey was struggling to deal with only one).

In other words, in that situation, I'd say Kylo Ren proved himself the better swordsman in that scenario.

If my memory serves me as well, I've heard people claim that "no non-Force wielder could ever beat a Jedi in armed combat".  While that is not true in both Legends and the new canon, for the most part, that does imply the throne room fight should not be treated as an exception because of the participants.



Ben Grimm said:


> Uh huh, that is not how the Force works. Training is required as established previously by Yoda training Luke.



The Force Bond between Rey and Kylo Ren takes inspiration from how it worked in the "Knights of the Old Republic" series, I think.  It may have started on Starkiller Base after his attempt to interrogate her and, just as it allowed them to interact with each other and allowed Kylo Ren to tap into Rey's memories, it also allowed Rey to tap into Kylo Ren's skill in the Force (and she's only seen doing something after Kylo Ren uses the Force in a certain manner on her first).

After all, her only answer to what the Force was to Luke, initially, was based on what Kylo Ren used on her.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Gaiash, don't bother, I've been through this before. Suigetsu is a master of the 'Straw Man' fallacy, where he thinks bringing up your opinions on other things= winning the debate, complete with a declaration that he was won the debate. He's just prodding you. Don't waste your time on this.
> 
> Ben Grimm deals with the specific issues and is more interested in discussing than flame baiting. For all the disagreements I have with Kabal, he is a true believer of this anti-SJW mentality and engaging with him can be somewhat meaningful. Suigetsu just wants to rile you up.



I like how you come up with a cop out for everything.  Dont forget to drink your milk it will help you get your sleep at night.

In other news it seems not even Mark Hamill wants to have anything to do with this and is completely done with SW. hahaha.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> I like how you come up with a cop out for everything.  Dont forget to drink your milk it will help you get your sleep at night.
> 
> In other news it seems not even Mark Hamill wants to have anything to do with this and is completely done with SW. hahaha.



Thank you for the advice. It's very polite to offer it as part of your concession.


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## Glued (Apr 12, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Whenever this is brought up, it is as if people conveniently forget that Han didn't have the ship for _years, _and undesired modifications like the compressor (which Rey knew had been installed and was the _only thing she knew about the Falcon that Han didn't_) were added onto it.



Where did you get info this was the only part of the Falcon she knew about that Han didn't?



> Luke fires his one-in-a-million shot and Anakin being stated to have Jedi reflexes at the age of nine are okay, but it is somehow abhorrent for Rey to have similar reflexes or instinct.



I give Anakin lots of shit.

Luke on the other hand had experience shooting wamp rats. He was also guided by the ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi. 



> The Seventh Guard managed to overwhelm and almost best her on is own; Kylo Ren took on _three _Praetorians at once for an extended time, showed proficiency in using their own weapons against them (and putting the crossguards of his lightsaber to good use), was only overwhelmed when one managed to disarm him, and he killed five of the eight (three in the time Rey was struggling to deal with only one).
> 
> In other words, in that situation, I'd say Kylo Ren proved himself the better swordsman in that scenario.
> 
> If my memory serves me as well, I've heard people claim that "no non-Force wielder could ever beat a Jedi in armed combat".  While that is not true in both Legends and the new canon, for the most part, that does imply the throne room fight should not be treated as an exception because of the participants.



Jango Fett was able to kill Jedi with a blaster and he was able to have a bad ass fight with Obi Wan Kenobi in Attack of the clones.



> The Force Bond between Rey and Kylo Ren takes inspiration from how it worked in the "Knights of the Old Republic" series, I think. It may have started on Starkiller Base after his attempt to interrogate her and, just as it allowed them to interact with each other and allowed Kylo Ren to tap into Rey's memories, it also allowed Rey to tap into Kylo Ren's skill in the Force (and she's only seen doing something after Kylo Ren uses the Force in a certain manner on her first).
> 
> After all, her only answer to what the Force was to Luke, initially, was based on what Kylo Ren used on her.



Oh dear lord this sharingan levels of BS, learning without actually having to train.

All hail the All-Conquering Rey who learns without actually training.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Apr 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Thank you for the advice. It's very polite to offer it as part of your concession.



You are plain trolling at this point, this is beyond pathetic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Apr 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> You are plain trolling at this point, this is beyond pathetic.



It's only gay if you're on bottom, Suigetsu.


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 12, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Where did you get info this was the only part of the Falcon she knew about that Han didn't?



Dialogue from the film.  The compressor was the one thing giving Han trouble after he got it back, and it was explained that Unkar Plutt added the compressor as a modification to the Falcon once he acquired it.



Ben Grimm said:


> Luke on the other hand had experience shooting wamp rats. He was also guided by the ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi.



That was with a civilian grade craft and a laser cannon; the exhaust port needed a perfect 45-degree turn for the torpedoes to enter it.



Ben Grimm said:


> Jango Fett was able to kill Jedi with a blaster and he was able to have a bad ass fight with Obi Wan Kenobi in Attack of the clones.



And others would probably have a field day with saying how much of that was PIS, given said Jedi was a member of the Council yet Jango could kill him with a pistol.



Ben Grimm said:


> Oh dear lord this sharingan levels of BS, learning without actually having to train.



She learned by experiencing and seeing.  Kylo Ren probing her mind showed her the Force could be used to influence people's thoughts; Kylo Ren immobilizing her and using telekinesis on her showed her the Force could be used to move objects.  

The latter being something that _an infant _was shown capable of in _The Clone Wars_:


As for the "Knights of the Old Republic" inspiration I mentioned, the Force Bond was shown able to communicate knowledge multiple times, and used in those different ways by multiple individuals.  

Meetra Surik is a notable example.  She could instantly learn Force techniques _and _Lightsaber styles just by observing them once after she reconnected to the Force, even with that being due to being a wound in the Force.

Rey and Kylo Ren's situation is just another way the Force Bond can work.

What confuses me is that I've heard people gush about all the off-the-wall stunts non-Skywalker Jedi do in the EU, or laud characters like Kyle Katarn, who was new with a lightsaber yet defeated _*seven*_ *Dark Jedi *in a short time-span and was mostly self-taught himself, yet it is BS and "too much" when what was done with characters in the Legends canon happens with Rey.

If you are going to criticize a character, _at least _acknowledge the things you are criticizing them for first existed elsewhere.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It's only gay if you're on bottom, Suigetsu.





Edit: Wait... is that why you are a bottomfeeder?


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## Gaiash (Apr 13, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Knowing Han's ship better than he does.


No she doesn't, she understands the problems with it caused by Unkar who she used to work for and based on her wording she was present for the changes being made. This is a clear example of a problem that can be solved by paying attention to the movie.



Ben Grimm said:


> Defeating Snoke's bodyguards


With Kylo Ren's help. Also Rey knowing how to fight has been established at this point so using that ability in a fight is a weird thing to complain about.



Ben Grimm said:


> Mind-Tricking on her third try


As in she fails at it twice before being able to do it. Scenes like this are supposed to show that she's strong with the force and her ability to adapt.



Ben Grimm said:


> Speaking Wookie and droid


She spent most of her life on a junkyard, plenty of time to learn languages.



Ben Grimm said:


> Being proficient in combat


Considering we see a scene where she has to fight off other scavengers on Jakku it's easy to understand why that's the case.



Ben Grimm said:


> Picking up multiple large boulders while Luke was struggling with rocks.


You're aware Rey having strong potential with the force is a huge part of her story and why Kylo Ren wants her on his side right?



Ben Grimm said:


> You can say that she doesn't do things very well, but apparently she does.


So you missed her struggling with things she's not very familiar with I see.



Ben Grimm said:


> Vader carried Luke and made him who he is. The Emperor was whispering and trying to turn Luke to darkness and Luke almost killed Vader. But Luke proved himself better than that.
> 
> Snoke was able to toss Rey around, but was ultimately pointless.
> 
> ...


Kylo is Rey's main antagonist and the two work well as parallels to each other. Snoke's role is more tied to Kylo that Rey, they interact but his relevance was to Kylo's rise to power. Hux is more relevant to the Resistance in general than Rey.



Ben Grimm said:


> Uh huh, that is not how the Force works. Training is required as established previously by Yoda training Luke.


You can train without someone to train you. Luke learned a few things before Obi Wan's ghost appeared telling to find Yoda, Rey can learn thing on her own too.



Ben Grimm said:


> Where did you get info this was the only part of the Falcon she knew about that Han didn't?


By watching the movie and paying attention to what characters are saying.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It's only gay if you're on bottom, Suigetsu.


Very recently you adimtted that this thing has Bayfromers level brand managment.


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## Glued (Apr 13, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Dialogue from the film.  The compressor was the one thing giving Han trouble after he got it back, and it was explained that Unkar Plutt added the compressor as a modification to the Falcon once he acquired it.


Thanks



> That was with a civilian grade craft and a laser cannon; the exhaust port needed a perfect 45-degree turn for the torpedoes to enter it.


And Luke got a clear shot thanks to the sacrifices of his fellow x-wing pilots and he was guided by the voice of Obi Wan Kenobi. Biggs also vouched for Luke as well. 

Luke had two skills, shooting and flying. Slowly he broadened himself.



> And others would probably have a field day with saying how much of that was PIS, given said Jedi was a member of the Council yet Jango could kill him with a pistol.



Jango had a faster draw and was able to dance with Obi Wan Kenobi. Boba Fett tied up Luke in Return of the Jedi.



> She learned by experiencing and seeing.  Kylo Ren probing her mind showed her the Force could be used to influence people's thoughts; Kylo Ren immobilizing her and using telekinesis on her showed her the Force could be used to move objects.


Sharingan.



> The latter being something that _an infant _was shown capable of in _The Clone Wars_:
> 
> 
> As for the "Knights of the Old Republic" inspiration I mentioned, the Force Bond was shown able to communicate knowledge multiple times, and used in those different ways by multiple individuals.
> ...



The Expanded Universe is filled with lots of BS and nonsense, I openly acknowledge that. I didn't even care much when it got retconned into oblivion by Disney. In fact I even told Martial Horror how I could not take the EU seriously because it was moving towards DBZ territory. Stuff like Holdo Maneuver makes me cringe because they had better acknowledge it episode 9.

I don't want to see Rey doing fleet destroying Force Storms like Palpatine. Even the Mace Windu stuff from Gennedy Tartovsky cartoon was over the top ridiculous such as jumping thousands of feet in the air and defeating armies of droids by himself. 




Gaiash said:


> With Kylo Ren's help. Also Rey knowing how to fight has been established at this point so using that ability in a fight is a weird thing to complain about.



Its not just that she knows how to fight, its the fact that she is such a great fighter combined with all her other attributes.

Secondly just having the Force and Combat training doesn't guarantee victory against non-Force users. Boba Fett had Luke tied up and Jango Fett killed professional adult Jedi with a blaster.



> As in she fails at it twice before being able to do it. Scenes like this are supposed to show that she's strong with the force and her ability to adapt.


Scenes like that kill the tension. It was bad enough she reversed Kylo's interrogation, but doing a mind trick was unnecessary. It would have been better if Han and Finn had saved her.



> She spent most of her life on a junkyard, plenty of time to learn languages.



So out of all the hundreds of species sitting at the Galactic Senate, Rey just happens to pick up Wookie? That is seriously pushing the odds.

I wonder what other talents she picked up on that planet.



> Kylo is Rey's main antagonist and the two work well as parallels to each other. Snoke's role is more tied to Kylo that Rey, they interact but his relevance was to Kylo's rise to power. Hux is more relevant to the Resistance in general than Rey.


Kylo is meant to be Rey's parallel, but he comes off as her inferior. He tried to interrogate her, but she in turn interrogates him.



> You're aware Rey having strong potential with the force is a huge part of her story and why Kylo Ren wants her on his side right?



Yes and its ridiculous. Almost as dumb as Anakin defeating the Trade Federation.



> So you missed her struggling with things she's not very familiar with I see.



You call that struggling? She learned mind tricks after three tries and telekinetically grabbed a lightsaber a few minutes later.



> You can train without someone to train you. Luke learned a few things before Obi Wan's ghost appeared telling to find Yoda, Rey can learn thing on her own too.



There are years of difference between the pace of Luke and the pace of Rey. Rey's story is being told over weeks.

I certainly hope episode 9 does not take place a few days after episode 8.

But I really hope we don't see Rey charging up a Kamehameha wave and her hair turning blonde.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 13, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I wonder what other talents she picked up on that planet.



Lets not forget that a woman that has lived her entire life on a desert planet knows how to swim.


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## Glued (Apr 13, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Lets not forget that a woman that has lived her entire life on a desert planet knows how to swim.



They should have bought C3PO with them. There is a reason we have translator droids. I don't care how annoying many fans thought he was. I would rather endure C3PO than have Rey be Miss Overpowered.

Speaking of which, Mark Hamill had to tell Rian that he should go up to C3PO before dying. Rian Johnson didn't even think that Luke should have spent some time with C3PO before kicking the bucket. That wink Luke gave C3PO before dying, that was all Mark Hamill. Rian forgot C3PO the same way Jay Jay Abrams didn't think that Leia should have hugged Chewbacca after Han died.

I thank Mark Hamill for giving C3PO that final wink. Even if you don't like C3PO, the character deserved that wink.

And this is where you realize the problem, no soul. Rian didn't think about C3PO and Jayjay didn't think about Chewbacca. These are shallow men without imagination. Star Wars a universe of droids and aliens, but all that matters are humans.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 13, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> And this is where you realize the problem, no soul. Rian didn't think about C3PO and Jayjay didn't think about Chewbacca. These are shallow men without imagination. Star Wars a universe of droids and aliens, but all that matters are humans women.



Fixed for accuracy.


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## Glued (Apr 13, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Fixed for accuracy.


Nah, Finn and Poe are major characters.

But as I said no soul.

Rey never really bonded with Han or Luke, yet Kylo states that she saw Han as a father-figure and now she clings to Luke. Originally Rian Johnson wanted Finn and Poe to go on a sidequest together. This would have been a great opportunity to strengthen the friendship between the two. Nope, instead we get Rose and her ham-fisted romance.


A perfect opportunity for Finn and Poe to be buddies and give the film some humanity, gone to waste.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Catalyst75 (Apr 13, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The Expanded Universe is filled with lots of BS and nonsense, I openly acknowledge that. I didn't even care much when it got retconned into oblivion by Disney.



As it happens, the _Clone Wars _are still canon (and that includes the Ones).

I agree with you on everything else, though.  There is a lot of ridiculous stuff in the old EU, and the guys in the OBD take it to Dragon Ball _*Super *_territory (Universal Luke because scaling to the Son and Daughter, and because he beat Abeloth).



Ben Grimm said:


> So out of all the hundreds of species sitting at the Galactic Senate, Rey just happens to pick up Wookie? That is seriously pushing the odds.
> 
> I wonder what other talents she picked up on that planet.



We probably saw all those talents already.

As for how she picked up Wookiee, there was a lot of stuff to scavenge on Jakku including intact star-fighter computer systems with language databases.  That's how she learnt both droid binary and Wookiee.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 13, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> .  There is a lot of ridiculous stuff in the old EU, and the guys in the OBD take it to Dragon Ball _*Super *_territory (Universal Luke because scaling to the Son and Daughter, and because he beat Abeloth).
> .


I would bet the ratio is better than what was in the Lucas endorsed CW animated series.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 14, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Very recently you adimtted that this thing has Bayfromers level brand managment.


Dude, he just came out of the closet so be gentle with him.



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I would bet the ratio is better than what was in the Lucas endorsed CW animated series.


I never really cared about the CW show. I did liked the tartakovsky however.


Ben Grimm said:


> Nah, Finn and Poe are major characters.
> 
> But as I said no soul.


Like a box of chocolates with no fucking chocolate inside, it's just unnatractive presentation. Their characters arent even toyetic to begin with so how was disney even expecting to sell merchandise? Only Mark waid who is a closet racist goes on purchasing every Porg Tico figure because he thinks asian girls need an asian girl to identify with - FROM STARWARS.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 14, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Very recently you adimtted that this thing has Bayfromers level brand managment.



I didn't say 'brand management'. I would say Star Wars still has that over Transformers...if only because its Star Wars. Brand management is more about the brand and its relationship with the consumer. The brand survived the prequels and it will survive the backlash surrounding TLJ, although I'll concede that it's possibly deteriorating a bit due to over-saturation.

I did, however, say that Star Wars was being poorly managed behind-the-scenes, as it's obvious there hasn't been a consistent vision throughout the trilogy and the behind-the-scenes drama we keep hearing about in "Rogue One" and "Han Solo" is inexcusable. I don't like Bayformers, but other than "Transformers 2" being made during the writers strike, I don't recall any behind-the-scenes problems. They also don't need an overarching vision, as each film is a standalone story. Like I said, say what you will about Bay, but he knows how to run a set. 

This also doesn't have anything to do with whether I like these movies or not (I do), but most of the new wave of SW films have gone through a troubled production in some capacity. I think a major reason why Disney was willing to give Rian Johnson a trilogy was because TLJ was the only one where you didn't hear of any behind-the-scenes problems. The worst I've heard is Mark Hamill being a little unhappy with the creative direction, which is still more preferable to the star getting injured from a falling door. 

It also be remembered that George Lucas wasn't THAT much better when it came to an overarching vision...and he was in charge of the trilogy. We can all talk about how inconsistent TLJ is compared to TFA or the OT, but it doesn't have anything as embarrassing as the accidental i*c*st. Maybe it's a Star Wars curse.  



Suigetsu said:


> Dude, he just came out of the closet so be gentle with him.



That's what your Mom said last night!

...wait...


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## Glued (Apr 14, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Dude, he just came out of the closet so be gentle with him.
> 
> 
> I never really cared about the CW show. I did liked the tartakovsky however.
> ...



Porgs did sell well. 






MartialHorror said:


> I didn't say 'brand management'. I would say Star Wars still has that over Transformers...if only because its Star Wars. Brand management is more about the brand and its relationship with the consumer. The brand survived the prequels and it will survive the backlash surrounding TLJ, although I'll concede that it's possibly deteriorating a bit due to over-saturation.
> 
> This also doesn't have anything to do with whether I like these movies or not (I do), but most of the new wave of SW films have gone through a troubled production in some capacity. I think a major reason why Disney was willing to give Rian Johnson a trilogy was because TLJ was the only one where you didn't hear of any behind-the-scenes problems. The worst I've heard is Mark Hamill being a little unhappy with the creative direction, which is still more preferable to the star getting injured from a falling door.
> 
> It also be remembered that George Lucas wasn't THAT much better when it came to an overarching vision...and he was in charge of the trilogy. We can all talk about how inconsistent TLJ is compared to TFA or the OT, but it doesn't have anything as embarrassing as the accidental i*c*st. Maybe it's a Star Wars curse.



Luke and Leia kiss was just an accident, nothing more to say.

Leia hugging Rey and walking by Chewbacca when he needed it the most is just...holy shit just how could Jayjay forget Chewbacca.

Chewbacca was Han's best friend, his buddy, almost a brother. And Rey took his hug.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I didn't say 'brand management'. I would say Star Wars still has that over Transformers...if only because its Star Wars. Brand management is more about the brand and its relationship with the consumer. The brand survived the prequels and it will survive the backlash surrounding TLJ, although I'll concede that it's possibly deteriorating a bit due to over-saturation.
> 
> I did, however, say that Star Wars was being poorly managed behind-the-scenes, as it's obvious there hasn't been a consistent vision throughout the trilogy and the behind-the-scenes drama we keep hearing about in "Rogue One" and "Han Solo" is inexcusable. I don't like Bayformers, but other than "Transformers 2" being made during the writers strike, I don't recall any behind-the-scenes problems. They also don't need an overarching vision, as each film is a standalone story. Like I said, say what you will about Bay, but he knows how to run a set.
> 
> ...



That's what your Mom said last night!

...wait..

Don't fuck with the prog police and it does not make sense.

Yeah, let's play Russian roulette once more. First time it was just a weirdo, now it' s a coporate board that turned into a weirdo Hydra creature.

You think at the moment SW has good relationship with the consumers?

Eddie Murphy not getting his trans escort on time on the set is a minor problem. Hamill disagreed with everything despite his incentives to pretend stuff is great. Legs can heal, a doctor is more cheap than another movie to make this TLJ brand murder go away.

At least the PT was Star Wars not an attempt to make Star Wars into a post 1968 IRL war drama.


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## Glued (Apr 14, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> That's what your Mom said last night!
> 
> ...wait..
> 
> ...



I have no idea what you are even saying. Is this even English?

Eddy Murphy what?
Prog police and what doesn't make sense?
Legs can heal, huh? What do legs have to do with anything?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 14, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Eddy Murphy what?
> Prog police and what doesn't make sense?
> Legs can heal, huh? What do legs have to do with anything?


Just a fake anecdote to make a point.

Progressive.

Harrison Ford hurt his leg on TFA.


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## Suigetsu (Apr 14, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Porgs did sell well.


You do realize those shills are band waggoners and where flaunting porg merchandise before the movie even came out right? Porgs are rotting in the stores, disney was pushing them hard to be the next minions but they failed miserably.




The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Just a fake anecdote to make a point.
> 
> Progressive.
> 
> Harrison Ford hurt his leg on TFA.


And Mark Hamill almost fell off a cliff during the filming of TFA. J.J.'s lack of of understanding that he is dealing with old actors it's embarrasing.



MartialHorror said:


> That's what your Mom said last night!
> 
> ...wait...


So you admit it then?  Wow I didnt realize you where realy gay, more power to you I suppose. 

Anyways, dont you ever drag family members into this again, I know you have shiet taste but to think you can sink even lower it's just plain sad.


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## Mider T (Apr 14, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I have no idea what you are even saying. Is this even English?
> 
> Eddy Murphy what?
> Prog police and what doesn't make sense?
> Legs can heal, huh? What do legs have to do with anything?


His entire poster shtick is just non-sequiturs and buzzwords.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 14, 2018)

This thread is madness! Madness, I tell you!

But I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks Kabal needs an english translator.


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## Jake CENA (Apr 14, 2018)

Finn is the worst character of all time.

I can’t remember any other movie character who’s worse than him tbh


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## MartialHorror (Apr 14, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> Finn is the worst character of all time.
> 
> I can’t remember any other movie character who’s worse than him tbh



If you want, I can give you a list to prove you wrong. But the condition is...you have to watch everything I put on it...and I will quiz you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 14, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> Finn is the worst character of all time.
> 
> I can’t remember any other movie character who’s worse than him tbh



Finn is only the worse in terms of failing to meet expectations. 

You thought you get a Jedi in the making and you got the comic relief Janitor oh boy.


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## Glued (Apr 14, 2018)

I personally like Finn, he feels real, down to earth. He feels human. He is Finn the Human.

It took massive cajones to stand up to a dark side apprentice with no force powers yourself.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MartialHorror (Apr 14, 2018)

> I personally like Finn, he feels real, down to earth. He feels human. He is Finn the Human.
> 
> It took massive cajones to stand up to a dark side apprentice with no force powers yourself.



I still kind of wish Finn was the main character, as I would like to see a normal person take the lead amidst Jedi and Sith doing battle. At the absolute least, it would be different. 

I won't contest someone saying they don't like Finn or think he's a bad character, but to say he is the 'worst of all time', suggests you've had a very privileged...um, movie upbringing? Of course, people always say 'This is the worst thing ever' because it's fun saying that.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> This thread is madness! Madness, I tell you!
> 
> But I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks Kabal needs an english translator.


Kamal, high profile Muslim filmmaker is used as my username. Get woke for your sake.




MartialHorror said:


> I still kind of wish Finn was the main character, as I would like to see a normal person take the lead amidst Jedi and Sith doing battle. At the absolute least, it would be different.



He would also be just a regular dude in terms of charisma.


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## Jake CENA (Apr 15, 2018)

Space Janitor has better military training than seasoned vets


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## dr_shadow (Apr 15, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> Finn is the worst character of all time.
> 
> I can’t remember any other movie character who’s worse than him tbh



Yoosa tinksa heeza worza danna Jar-Jar?


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## MartialHorror (Apr 15, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Kamal, high profile Muslim filmmaker is used as my username. Get woke for your sake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ack, sorry for the misspelling and if english is your second language, I apologize for the post altogether. 



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Kamal, high profile Muslim filmmaker is used as my username. Get woke for your sake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The actor did show he had charisma in "Pacific Rim 2". Maybe it's the accent? I don't know why they had him use an American accent, considering how there are so many British people in Star Wars. Or maybe they just didn't want him to upstage Rey. 



Jake CENA said:


> Space Janitor has better military training than seasoned vets



It's assumed he was trained reasonably well if they brought him out to fight in the prologue of TFA. I also think he's at least somewhat force sensitive, considering Kylo seemed to notice 'something' ominous about him during that same scene. 

Also, I have to assume you've never seen any other action movies in your life, considering it's INCREDIBLY common for everymen to take on seasoned vets. It's part of the 'wish fulfillment' angle that cinema provides. I mean, usually, a single cop is not going to be able to take on an entire gang of terrorists, but no one complains about "Die Hard".


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## dr_shadow (Apr 15, 2018)

It's dropped below 100 theaters now. There's 61 still playing it. Soon...

When TFA went below 100 theaters it had two weeks left.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The actor did show he had charisma in "Pacific Rim 2". Maybe it's the accent? I don't know why they had him use an American accent, considering how there are so many British people in Star Wars. Or maybe they just didn't want him to upstage Rey.



Doesn't the movie wink at you about that the fact that he does not have Idris Ellba level charisma?


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## Glued (Apr 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Ack, sorry for the misspelling and if english is your second language, I apologize for the post altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, Hollywood uses the British accent primarily to identify who is the Villain.

Secondly OT was a space western.

Han was a space cowboy.
Luke was a hick farmer from nowhere.

It just wasn't very overt.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 15, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Han was a space cowboy.
> Luke was a hick farmer from nowhere.



Chewie was the freed slave who doesn't speak English.


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## MartialHorror (Apr 15, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Dude, Hollywood uses the British accent primarily to identify who is the Villain.
> 
> Secondly OT was a space western.
> 
> ...



Yeah but that was the 70's, when no one cared about that kind of coding.



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Doesn't the movie wink at you about that the fact that he does not have Idris Ellba level charisma?



Sort of, but honestly, few people have Idris Elba's level of charisma. I mean, Mark Hamill wasn't the most charismatic person in Hollywood...or even the trilogy he was the protagonist in...and everyone thought he worked well within that role. I'd say John Boyega is at least a little more charismatic than him. 

It does come down to the role though. My least favorite Star Wars protagonist is probably Jyn Erso from "Rogue One", as she's just kind of sullen and stone faced throughout her entire movie. Not really the actresses fault, just the way the character was written. You might not like Rey, but at least Rey gives the actress some room to show her comedic timing .


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Apr 16, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Doesn't the movie wink at you about that the fact that he does not have Idris Ellba level charisma?



Who does?

Idris is dreamy.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Apr 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Sort of, but honestly, few people have Idris Elba's level of charisma. I mean, Mark Hamill wasn't the most charismatic person in Hollywood...or even the trilogy he was the protagonist in...and everyone thought he worked well within that role. I'd say John Boyega is at least a little more charismatic than him.
> 
> It does come down to the role though. My least favorite Star Wars protagonist is probably Jyn Erso from "Rogue One", as she's just kind of sullen and stone faced throughout her entire movie. Not really the actresses fault, just the way the character was written. You might not like Rey, but at least Rey gives the actress some room to show her comedic timing .


I think Hamill gained plenty of charisma he just hated what was given. He was great in Sushi Girl.

it's all subjective, it's not gonna be exactly the same but i bet you can get similar level of charisma for Boyega money.



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Who does?
> 
> Idris is dreamy.



Even some guy who never acted can be a surprise like i saw in Seediq Bale.


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## dr_shadow (Apr 21, 2018)

IT'S FINALLY OUT OF THEATERS! 

So I can finally tell you the score:

*Worldwide (Not adjusted for inflation)*

1. The Force Awakens $2.068 billion
*2. The Last Jedi $1.332 billion*
3. The Phantom Menace $1.027 billion
4. Revenge of the Sith $848 million
5. A New Hope $775 million
6. Attack of the Clones $649 million
7. The Empire Strikes Back $538 million
8. Return of the Jedi $475 million

*Domestic (adjusted for inflation)*

1. A New Hope $1.310 billion
2. The Force Awakens $992 million
3. The Phantom Menace $778 million
4. Return of the Jedi $743 million
5. The Empire Strikes Back $723 million
*6. The Last Jedi $620 million*
7. Revenge of the Sith $544 million
8. Attack of the Clones $477 million


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## Mider T (Apr 21, 2018)

I'm irked that TFA didn't make $8 million more domestically.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 21, 2018)

So the pattern of the domestic list seems to be:

1. First film of each trilogy ('cuz hype)
2. Original trilogy
3. Sequel trilogy
4. Prequel trilogy


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## RAGING BONER (Apr 29, 2018)

For subversion done correctly, _-Rian Johnson-_, see Infinity War...you fucking-fuck with your shit script and terrible character direction.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Lord Trollbias (Apr 29, 2018)

Jake CENA said:


> Finn is the worst character of all time.
> 
> I can’t remember any other movie character who’s worse than him tbh


Hard to take this seriously when Rose is in the same damn movie man.


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## Mider T (Apr 30, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Skaddix (Apr 30, 2018)

Lord Trollbias said:


> Hard to take this seriously when Rose is in the same damn movie man.



Nah Finn is worse mostly cause the expectations were so much higher for Finn. 
Finn was going to be the First Black Jedi Male Lead....instead we got Comic Relief Janitor. 
Rose was barely in the marketing and while she is crazy SJW stereotype, well you weren't sold anything special with her.


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## Lord Trollbias (Apr 30, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Nah Finn is worse mostly cause the expectations were so much higher for Finn.
> Finn was going to be the First Black Jedi Male Lead....instead we got Comic Relief Janitor.
> Rose was barely in the marketing and while she is crazy SJW stereotype, well you weren't sold anything special with her.


Fair enough. I see your logic.


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## Gaiash (Apr 30, 2018)

See all your criticisms just make me like these characters more.

Reactions: Like 1


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## dr_shadow (Apr 30, 2018)

We still talking about this movie?

It's out of theaters. Solo thread is where it's at now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 1, 2018)

We'll talk about how shit Solo is, when it comes out.

Right now, you'll have to endure us shitting on this movie for another month.


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## RAGING BONER (May 1, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> See all your criticisms just make me like these characters more.


Agreed man; it's so subversive to have a human be a janitor in a world populated by droids. I'm also glad they gave that opportunity to a black guy.
And Rose? don't even get me started (/gush)
what a sublimely subtle source of modern progressiveness and wisdom!
Even word she spoke taught me more about myself and how i should view adversity. Like, now? I fight for what I love...not against hate. So wise, so deep.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ennoea (May 1, 2018)

Man y'all still hung up on this shit film.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (May 1, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Man y'all still hung up on this shit film.


nah, don't actually give a shit tbh, just baiting white knights of this bullshit because i'm a petty bastard  
...TLJ accomplished something i didn't think possible; it made me stop caring about the franchise and its future almost as completely.

I'm glad something like Marvel came along and knocked it off its undeserved perch.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Neutral 1


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## dr_shadow (May 1, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> nah, don't actually give a shit tbh, just baiting white knights of this bullshit because i'm a petty bastard
> ...TLJ accomplished something i didn't think possible; it made me stop caring about the franchise and its future almost as completely.
> 
> I'm glad something like Marvel came along and knocked it off its undeserved perch.



So have you rage-quit both Star Wars and Star Trek now, or will you be tuning in for Discovery season 2?


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## RAGING BONER (May 1, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> So have you rage-quit both Star Wars and Star Trek now, or will you be tuning in for Discovery season 2?


surprisingly I didn't rage-quit Star Wars; as that would imply some form of passion involved.

TLJ turned everything i had into utter apathy for the future; complete and utter disinterest.

Star Trek is notorious with its shows, in that they never shine until its later 2nd or 3rd seasons (once the actors/writers "know" the characters well enough)...so I'm willing to give it a chance. (and shit, its not like i'm paying for it anyway )

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Skaddix (May 1, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> surprisingly I didn't rage-quit Star Wars; as that would imply some form of passion involved.
> 
> TLJ turned everything i had into utter apathy for the future; complete and utter disinterest.
> 
> Star Trek is notorious with its shows, in that they never shine until its later 2nd or 3rd seasons (once the actors/writers "know" the characters well enough)...so I'm willing to give it a chance. (and shit, its not like i'm paying for it anyway )



Oh Yeah Star Trek tends to be shit TV wise until the 3rd Season.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (May 1, 2018)




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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 2, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> See all your criticisms just make me like these characters more.


In that case there is something wrong with you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rax (May 5, 2018)

People here liked the Last Jedi...?

Gross.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 6, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> Man y'all still hung up on this shit film.


I am pretty sure business schools will teach it as a great example of bad pop culture brand management.


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## Skaddix (May 6, 2018)

Fang said:


> Still say my favorite thing about Disney/Sequel Apologists has to be the whole defense of Finn when one of the first things he does in TFA is drink out of an animal trough like a fucking animal in a scene almost satirical to chattel slavery.



Yeah apparently we should be grateful for such great representation for our first lead.
The lowest of comic relief (made for us to laugh at Finn not with him), no Force (despite being marketed with the Lightsaber), cannot even get a kiss from the white girl (while she gets wet over the mass murderer), first star wars hero to lose to a stromtrooper (now sure I didnt read all the EU but I dont remember this ever happening before) and no real skills (he cannot fly, he is not a mechanic, he can shoot a blaster but who cant). 

Don't know how many times I read some one give me bullshit about how marketing a character with a Lightsaber implies absolutely nothing and that its not LF and KK fault that fans took it to mean Jedi. As if Kenobi didn't introduce the Lightsaber as the Weapon of the Jedi in ANH.


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## Gaiash (May 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Don't know how many times I read some one give me bullshit about how marketing a character with a Lightsaber implies absolutely nothing and that its not LF and KK fault that fans took it to mean Jedi. As if Kenobi didn't introduce the Lightsaber as the Weapon of the Jedi in ANH.


I mean it's not like there weren't scenes in the other films where characters that aren't Jedi use lightsabers. Like the scene where Han Solo uses Luke's to cut open a Tauntaun or the fact General Grevious has four of them.


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## Rax (May 6, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Yeah apparently we should be grateful for such great representation for our first lead.
> The lowest of comic relief (made for us to laugh at Finn not with him), no Force (despite being marketed with the Lightsaber), cannot even get a kiss from the white girl (while she gets wet over the mass murderer), first star wars hero to lose to a stromtrooper (now sure I didnt read all the EU but I dont remember this ever happening before) and no real skills (he cannot fly, he is not a mechanic, he can shoot a blaster but who cant).
> 
> Don't know how many times I read some one give me bullshit about how marketing a character with a Lightsaber implies absolutely nothing and that its not LF and KK fault that fans took it to mean Jedi. As if Kenobi didn't introduce the Lightsaber as the Weapon of the Jedi in ANH.


Finn coulda been a saving piece of this new series.

To see what it's like behind the life of the storm trooper and what they're taught.

It could've been interesting.


Instead they turned Finn into a beta male janitor constantly clamoring over how great Rey is

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Rax (May 6, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I mean it's not like there weren't scenes in the other films where characters that aren't Jedi use lightsabers. Like the scene where Han Solo uses Luke's to cut open a Tauntaun or the fact General Grevious has four of them.


All Han did was cut open a Ton Ton.

Finn was somehow not getting shrekt by Kylo Ren.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Skaddix (May 6, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I mean it's not like there weren't scenes in the other films where characters that aren't Jedi use lightsabers. Like the scene where Han Solo uses Luke's to cut open a Tauntaun or the fact General Grevious has four of them.



Han was too my knowledge not advertised with it nor used a bait and switch.
Grievous sure didn't have the Force. He didn't lose to Clone Trooper Number 32 either though.


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Rax said:


> People here liked the Last Jedi...?
> 
> Gross.


Goes to show you what a shiet taste people can have. Specially then they have the audacity to defend it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rax (May 7, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Goes to show you what a shiet taste people can have. Specially then they have the audacity to defend it.


You should watch Ethan Van Sciver on YT. 


Best SW channel there is . 


He's amped to see How bad Soylo will be.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MShadows (May 7, 2018)

Will Disney outdo themselves and make an even shittier movie than TLJ? Or is that honor reserved for Episode IX?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Djomla (May 7, 2018)

MShadows said:


> Will Disney outdo themselves and make an even shittier movie than TLJ? Or is that honor reserved for Episode IX?



Why not both?


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## Rax (May 7, 2018)

Djomla said:


> Why not both?


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## Gaiash (May 7, 2018)

Rax said:


> Finn was somehow not getting shrekt by Kylo Ren.


Do I have to explain why Kylo Ren wasn't at his best in that fight again?


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## Garcher (May 7, 2018)

at this point the only option is that the Star Wars fandom collectively refuses to accept Disney's bullshit as canon


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Do I have to explain why Kylo Ren wasn't at his best in that fight again?


Poor writtng, this is a fact. But then again you loved the ghost busters reboot so that means you have shiet taste.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (May 7, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Poor writtng, this is a fact. But then again you loved the ghost busters reboot so that means you have shiet taste.


This post is poor writing.


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> This post is poor writing.


All of your posts are poor writting and lackluster mider t. Literally the only thing you do is spam and ignore posts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (May 7, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> All of your posts are poor writting


Writing*

Nope, my grammar and spelling were on point.


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Writing*
> 
> Nope, my grammar and spelling were on point.


You are so silly.


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## Gaiash (May 7, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Poor writtng, this is a fact. But then again you loved the ghost busters reboot so that means you have shiet taste.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 7, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Do I have to explain why Kylo Ren wasn't at his best in that fight again?


Not upset about you feminist heroine beating an injured dude?


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Because????

Oh wait that's right, you dont even have an argument. Soywar fans BTFO once again.


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## Gaiash (May 7, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Not upset about you feminist heroine beating an injured dude?


An injured dude who was still winning the fight until the end. Fighting him injured was the other way either of them stood a chance.


Suigetsu said:


> Because????
> 
> Oh wait that's right, you dont even have an argument. Soywar fans BTFO once again.


Well ok if you insist...


Suigetsu said:


> Poor writtng


No he got shot by a weapon established as being powerful earlier in the movie, had just killed his father and is punching his wound to keep himself from passing out. He also wins that fight.



Suigetsu said:


> this is a fact


Nope, it's an opinion.



Suigetsu said:


> But then again you loved the ghost busters reboot


I liked it but I wouldn't say I loved it. Also Ghostbusters is one word.



Suigetsu said:


> so that means you have shiet taste.


I don't blame you for this mistake, I can't expect people to understand my superior taste in movies.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Suigetsu (May 7, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> No he got shot by a weapon established as being powerful earlier in the movie, had just killed his father and is punching his wound to keep himself from passing out. He also wins that fight.


He got shot by a weapon that doesnt make you bleed but incinetate. First Nu-SW it's already lacking in making sense.




> Nope, it's an opinion.


Then your opinion is shiet.



> I liked it but I wouldn't say I loved it. Also Ghostbusters is one word.


Enough to wear a sig of it and proudly love soy wars. You are a good example of why movie making is in the gutter this decade.



> I don't blame you for this mistake, I can't expect people to understand my superior taste in movies.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> An injured dude who was still winning the fight until the end. Fighting him injured was the other way either of them stood a chance.


Almost sounds like she needed some training in a Jedi Acade\my instead of Deus Ex Victory.


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## MShadows (May 8, 2018)

It's clear as day that they're pushing a feminist agenda with their Mary Sue Ray. It only got worse in TLJ when they delved further into their liberal agenda by wasting half the movie with their extremely ingenious casino sub-plot which served absolutely no fucking reason, just like Warrior of Love Rose's whole existence.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 8, 2018)

MShadows said:


> It's clear as day that they're pushing a feminist agenda with their Mary Sue Ray. It only got worse in TLJ when they delved further into their liberal agenda by wasting half the movie with their extremely ingenious casino sub-plot which served absolutely no fucking reason, just like Warrior of Love Rose's whole existence.


We needed to hear the slicer start Fat Face Jar Jar on his journey toward socialism.


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## Rasendori (May 8, 2018)

Any decent human being is feminist. It means equal. There's a difference between that and being militant. 

This movie is shit because it's shit not because of any consipiracy woogy boogy right wing logic.


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## Rax (May 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Do I have to explain why Kylo Ren wasn't at his best in that fight again?


And he shoulda been able to no diff a dude who wasn't even a good Storm Trooper

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gaiash (May 8, 2018)

Rasendori said:


> Any decent human being is feminist. It means equal. There's a difference between that and being militant.
> 
> This movie is shit because it's shit not because of any consipiracy woogy boogy right wing logic.


Wait if I have a debate with you about the quality of the film will the result be a better conversation that with the rest of this thread?


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## Imagine (May 8, 2018)

How bout that Soylo movie


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 8, 2018)

Rasendori said:


> Any decent human being is feminist. It means equal. There's a difference between that and being militant.
> 
> This movie is shit because it's shit not because of any consipiracy woogy boogy right wing logic.


There is no point for that label in 2018 in the USA.


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## Rasendori (May 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> There is no point for that label in 2018 in the USA.



There's no point in labeling this movie shit. I still do it because I feel like it. 

It's funny to me when people get upset over a term that literally only implies negative context if you are ignorant of it. And that goes for both the extreme sides.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 9, 2018)

Rasendori said:


> There's no point in labeling this movie shit. I still do it because I feel like it.
> 
> It's funny to me when people get upset over a term that literally only implies negative context if you are ignorant of it. And that goes for both the extreme sides.


Who is the public face anti feminist extremism?


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## Suigetsu (May 9, 2018)

Soy boys trying to defend this? pure embarrasment.


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## Gaiash (May 10, 2018)

So did people in this thread suddenly learn about the existence of soy beans or was there a memo in the nitpick about Star Wars movies club telling you to start forcing them into all your points?

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (May 10, 2018)

Maybe it's an alt-right thing, like how they always say 'cuck'. I'm just surprised this thread is still going strong.

By the way, Kamal, this is kind of why I said 'no one cares' in response to your thread about Hollywood being pushed out of the foreign box office. The majority of people posting in there were the ones saying the exact same shit here- whether they agree with you or disagree with you. For a moment, I thought your thread was going to become the next 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' thread...until everyone returned 'home' to continue the same arguments.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 10, 2018)

lol this movie continues to suck


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## Gaiash (May 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Maybe it's an alt-right thing, like how they always say 'cuck'. I'm just surprised this thread is still going strong.


Oh it is, there was a recent series of hbomberguy videos about it. I'm just amused this thread appears to have suddenly started using it to talk about Star Wars.


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## Suigetsu (May 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Maybe it's an alt-right thing, like how they always say 'cuck'. I'm just surprised this thread is still going strong.


It was the russians, it was the alt right, it was the hackers, it was the neo-nazis, it was the Mexicans.

As clueless as ever, people continue to bash this garbage because it is a movie that offends everyone's inteligence and defiles shit that people like. Unlike you soyboys, who love crap.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (May 10, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> It was the russians, it was the alt right, it was the hackers, it was the neo-nazis, it was the Mexicans.
> 
> As clueless as ever, people continue to bash this garbage because it is a movie that offends everyone's inteligence and defiles shit that people like. Unlike you soyboys, who love crap.



What exactly is a soyboy? We were wondering what this obsession with soy was and in traditional Suigetsu fashion, you dodged the question. Also, it's "intelligence".

Edit: Nevermind, looked it up myself and it's an alt-right term. An alternative to 'cuck', apparently.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Maybe it's an alt-right thing, like how they always say 'cuck'. I'm just surprised this thread is still going strong.
> 
> By the way, Kamal, this is kind of why I said 'no one cares' in response to your thread about Hollywood being pushed out of the foreign box office. The majority of people posting in there were the ones saying the exact same shit here- whether they agree with you or disagree with you. For a moment, I thought your thread was going to become the next 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' thread...until everyone returned 'home' to continue the same arguments.


I fail to see how if the 20 regulars here do not care i must be wrong. It's an incredibly small sample size.

The artsy fartsy community decided to spout politics instead of enyoying their culture war victory so these conversations are inevitable.


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## Suigetsu (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> What exactly is a soyboy? We were wondering what this obsession with soy was and in traditional Suigetsu fashion, you dodged the question. Also, it's "intelligence".
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, looked it up myself and it's an alt-right term. An alternative to 'cuck', apparently.


What question? You never asked any. I get you are still salty but srsly try harder.
“Its the alt right”
Do you actually believe that shit? No wonder you are a washed up.

Soy boys are manchildren millenials that remain in an infantile state and worship corporate products, they are like sheep and have really low standards. They also live in perpetual comfort zone and arent very exceptional.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> What question? You never asked any. I get you are still salty but srsly try harder.
> “Its the alt right”
> Do you actually believe that shit? No wonder you are a washed up.
> 
> Soy boys are manchildren millenials that remain in an infantile state and worship corporate products, they are like sheep and have really low standards. They also live in perpetual comfort zone and arent very exceptional.


He is a cinematic Indiana Jones compared to most people here.


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## MartialHorror (May 11, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I fail to see how if the 20 regulars here do not care i must be wrong. It's an incredibly small sample size.



By regulars, you mean the same people who have been debating the 'politics' of TLJ long after the movie became headline news.



> The artsy fartsy community decided to spout politics instead of enyoying their culture war victory so these conversations are inevitable.



I want you to know Haasan that as much as I...strongly...disagree with you, I believe your opinions come from a place of sincerity (whereas I think Suigetsu is bandwagon riding) and do my best to understand you...yet every time you post I feel like I'm missing a part of the argument. The 'artsy fartsy community decided to talk politics instead of enjoying their culture war victory'? Are you referring to Hollywood in general? I've always assumed the 'artsy fartsy' community was too small to win any culture wars...and are you insinuating that your side has lost?



Soygetsu said:


> What question? You never asked any. I get you are still salty but srsly try harder.
> “Its the alt right”
> Do you actually believe that shit? No wonder you are a washed up.
> 
> Soy boys are manchildren millenials that remain in an infantile state and worship corporate products, they are like sheep and have really low standards. They also live in perpetual comfort zone and arent very exceptional.



Nice way to mince words and...yes...A soyboy is an alt-right insult. When I typed it in yahoo, nearly every page that came up involved its roots with the alt-right...and your definition is mostly wrong, by the way...shocking...It's apparently supposed to be a man who lacks any masculine quality due to an over-consumption of emasculating products or ideologies. It's pretty much an alternate use of the previous alt-right 'go to' insult, "cuck".

So when you accuse people of being a 'soyboy', you're accusing them of not being 'masculine enough' and when you bring that into a fucking "Star Wars" debate, you reveal that you dislike the movie because of its strong female protagonist...and inadvertently reveal your own insecurities about your masculinity. But then again, you don't really care about that shit, you just love throwing around terms you don't know the meaning to, which is how most internet alt-right people are. But enjoy the ride on your bandwagon, as I accept your defeat once more...Soygetsu

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gaiash (May 11, 2018)




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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> By regulars, you mean the same people who have been debating the 'politics' of TLJ long after the movie became headline news.
> 
> 
> 
> I want you to know Haasan that as much as I...strongly...disagree with you, I believe your opinions come from a place of sincerity (whereas I think Suigetsu is bandwagon riding) and do my best to understand you...yet every time you post I feel like I'm missing a part of the argument. The 'artsy fartsy community decided to talk politics instead of enjoying their culture war victory'? Are you referring to Hollywood in general? I've always assumed the 'artsy fartsy' community was too small to win any culture wars...and are you insinuating that your side has lost?



i assume they are in that group and K Kennedy did stop raping Star Wars...

i was on their side of the culture war before they went way overboard. It wasn't just them of course but they were a constant part of it.


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## MartialHorror (May 11, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> i assume they are in that group and K Kennedy did stop raping Star Wars...
> 
> i was on their side of the culture war before they went way overboard. It wasn't just them of course but they were a constant part of it.



I like the new Star Wars movies, but my tastes tends towards horror and martial arts, although I certainly enjoy other forms of the action genre, comedies, thrillers, etc. Movies that are usually considered 'artsy fartsy' generally bore me, even ones that I am told I am supposed to like. I honestly never even thought about bringing up feminism, etc. in this debate until I heard a detractor call Holdo from TLJ a "Social Justice Warrior", in which I came to the conclusion that most people who were throwing around these kinds of terms had absolutely no idea what they were talking about...

Even those who like Kennedy or go overboard with their support of feminism, diversity, etc generally have similar tastes to anyone else. They like action, comedy, blockbusters and some will enjoy arthouse features or quiet dramas...as there are also members of the alt-right who also enjoy arthouse features and quiet dramas. This is why I think you're argument is inherently flawed. Most people are not that different. Some will be smart, some will be dumb, some will be noisy, others will be quiet and the rest will be whatever is more convenient for them at that time. 

I would say at least half of the people 'on your side' are in many ways, the counter-balance of a Social Justice Warrior. They only stand by you because it makes them feel validated and important. Or worse, they use it for trolling (ie Suigetsu). The rest, including you, either don't care as long as they parrot your terminologies or tolerate it because they're technically on their 'side', so we lump you in with the rest...making any good point you might have buried underneath the insults of those who don't even know what your terminologies mean. So all you ultimately do is damage your own side and assist the opposing one...So...the left thanks you? I guess? 

Also, Kennedy 'raping' Star Wars is also kind of a mute point as most fans seemed to think Lucas was doing the same thing once the 90's rolled around. I might hate the prequels, but I don't think they were hurting the Star Wars legacy that much because as bad as "The Phantom Menace" might be, I don't have to watch it. I can always watch the originals...except Lucas made it so it's very difficult thanks to the Special Editions...But it doesn't even matter anyway, since no one can truly save Star Wars. Fans will never agree on what they want. Kennedy can be fired, Disney can give the rights to someone else, the best filmmakers ever can be attached and they will still turn in a divisive product.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Nice way to mince words and...yes...A soyboy is an alt-right insult. When I typed it in yahoo, nearly every page that came up involved its roots with the alt-right...and your definition is mostly wrong, by the way...shocking...It's apparently supposed to be a man who lacks any masculine quality due to an over-consumption of emasculating products or ideologies. It's pretty much an alternate use of the previous alt-right 'go to' insult, "cuck".


Have you noticed that the sources that say that shit are usually considered soy boys? such as tabloid nerds? They dont like being called that. It's like if I called you a racist homophobe just because you disagreed with me. Also the alt-right it's a myth.
It mostly originated in 4chan and that's how it is used, as always you are clueless as fuck.
Basically this:




> So when you accuse people of being a 'soyboy', you're accusing them of not being 'masculine enough' and when you bring that into a fucking "Star Wars" debate, you reveal that you dislike the movie because of its strong female protagonist...and inadvertently reveal your own insecurities about your masculinity. But then again, you don't really care about that shit, you just love throwing around terms you don't know the meaning to, which is how most internet alt-right people are. But enjoy the ride on your bandwagon, as I accept your defeat once more...Soygetsu


No, when I accuse someone of being a soyboy I accuse them of being grown up humans that remain in an infatile state who also have become obsessed with consumerism of a brand regardless of it's quality.

I know you always try to troll me because the stuff that you come up with is obvious bait, I accepted your consession a while ago since you always bring empty arguments and petty attempts at trolling. I would suggest you to stop spending so much time watching shitty movies and writting blogs on anime forums and instead work on your career, lest you'll always be a washed up slag.


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## MartialHorror (May 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Have you noticed that the sources that say that shit are usually considered soy boys? such as tabloid nerds? They dont like being called that. It's like if I called you a racist homophobe just because you disagreed with me. Also the alt-right it's a myth.
> It mostly originated in 4chan and that's how it is used, as always you are clueless as fuck.
> Basically this:
> 
> ...



Does the Urban Dictionary count as a source of Soyboys? As always, I can barely decipher your posts...Are you insinuating that the alt-right is a myth and originated on 4-Chan? Cause that's how it reads and that's just amazingly wrong. Or did the term Soyboy come from 4-Chan? If that's the case, then my follow-up question would be...why are you taking terms from a website like 4-Chan? The one where everyone hides behind anonymity- actually, nevermind. You on 4Chan makes way too much sense.

Also, the alt-right doesn't create the terms it uses. It just makes them their own...Or do you think they invented the word 'Cuck'?

Finally and...this is my favorite part of your post. " when I accuse them of being grown up humans that remain in an infatile state who also have become obsessed with consumerism of a brand regardless of it's quality."

Hmmmm....You're a grown up man who is definitely infantile considering how many temper tantrums you throw over people liking a movie, drop new insults as frequently as a kid who has just discovered what 'fuck' is...and can't spell 'infantile'...and you're obsessed with "Star Wars: The Last Jedi". Yup, you're definitely describing Soygetsu.


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## Suigetsu (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> As always, I can barely decipher your posts.


So you are not pretending, you really are that clueless.  This sheds a lot of light about you.



> Or did the term Soyboy come from 4-Chan? If that's the case, then my follow-up question would be...why are you taking terms from a website like 4-Chan? The one where everyone hides behind anonymity- actually, nevermind. You on 4Chan makes way too much sense.


What difference would it make? it's just a term to identify a certian kind of individual.



> Also, the alt-right doesn't create the terms it uses. It just makes them their own...Or do you think they invented the word 'Cuck'?


Implying the alt-right actually exists. 




> Hmmmm....You're a grown up man who is definitely infantile considering how many temper tantrums you throw over people liking a movie, drop new insults as frequently as a kid who has just discovered what 'fuck' is...and can't spell 'infantile'...and you're obsessed with "Star Wars: The Last Jedi". Yup, you're definitely describing Soygetsu.


When I make a statement I defend it with facts and arguments, you failed to do that. I post crap about this movie because it amuses me, not because it obsesses me.
Btw if usually if you wanna call someone soy, that person needs to have the traits of being a soyboy, otherwise it's just silly. Clueless as ever you are.


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## MartialHorror (May 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> So you are not pretending, you really are that clueless.  This sheds a lot of light about you.
> 
> 
> What difference would it make? it's just a term to identify a certian kind of individual.
> ...



1) You're drawing influence from 4Chan. That's the difference.

2) Um, actual political figures have used the term. It was coined by a Historian and popularized by that popular white supremacist dude (whose name I admittedly cannot remember at the moment). The anti-defamation league even talks about it. Steve Bannon openly admitted he is part of the alt-right. Saying it doesn't exist is about as valid as saying that Democrats do not exist.

3) Not a single fact to be found in all of your points...and you are totally obsessive about the movie. You're more passionate than its fans are. So yes, you are a Soygetsu and even if that does not meet the actual definition, it's not like your use of it is any more accurate.

Can someone else please find some of these alleged facts in Soygetsu's posts? Kabal, you're allies with him, right? Am I seriously missing anything? All I can see are wrong statements and petty attacks.

Edit: I don't deal much with rep points on this forum, but I was glancing through some of my rep history and it's kind of funny seeing Suigetsu give me neg reps...and then look a little deeper and see how many times he positive repped me in the past. It was pretty amusing...but then I saw CrazyMoronX's name and I got sad, killing the nostalgic mood.


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## Glued (May 11, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Also, Kennedy 'raping' Star Wars is also kind of a mute point as most fans seemed to think Lucas was doing the same thing once the 90's rolled around. I might hate the prequels, but I don't think they were hurting the Star Wars legacy that much because as bad as "The Phantom Menace" might be, I don't have to watch it. I can always watch the originals...except Lucas made it so it's very difficult thanks to the Special Editions...But it doesn't even matter anyway, since no one can truly save Star Wars. Fans will never agree on what they want. Kennedy can be fired, Disney can give the rights to someone else, the best filmmakers ever can be attached and they will still turn in a divisive product.



I will have to disagree, a coming of age story isn't that hard. Star Wars isn't that complex, but its one of the first movies to show a coming of age story over 3 separate movies.

Lets take a look at the recent Black Panther movie.

We have T'challa

-Gets insulted about failing to save his dad.
-Struggles to defeat M'Baku
-Freezes when he sees his girlfriend.
-Ridiculed by his bodyguard
-Ridiculed by his sister
-Humiliated by his sister
-Thrown off a balcony by Klaue
-Loses Klaue to Killmonger
-Loses faith in his father
-Upstaged by Killmonger
-Defeated by Killmonger
-Watches his mentor killed.
-Bench Pressed off of a waterfall.
-Betrayed by W'Kabi

Then we have Rey.

-Only humiliated once by Luke
-Held helpless by Snoke
-Knocked unconscious by Kylo for a few moments
-Held helpless by Kylo that one time
-Screws up one time by releasing monsters, which ends up saving the day by accident.

The hero needs to be challenged. I would have put the fish nuns on Rey's list, but they were the butt of the joke not Rey herself.

In the next movie Rey is going to be an unstoppable monster and things will only get worse from there. Its already too late to build Rey up. The first two parts of her journey are already over. And she honestly hasn't suffered and she hasn't been pushed.

Its Green Lantern levels of bad. I sympathized more with Hector Hammond than I did Hal Jordan. Hal Jordan goes from an ace pilot to the greatest of lanterns. Oh wait, Sinestro actually put Hal in his place and treated him like a pile of shit.


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## Gaiash (May 11, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> In the next movie Rey is going to be an unstoppable monster and things will only get worse from there. Its already too late to build Rey up. The first two parts of her journey are already over. And she honestly hasn't suffered and she hasn't been pushed.


Your problem is you seem to think her struggles should be in combat when in reality they're mental struggles. She spends Force Awakens trying to stay out of the conflict and just stay on Jakku waiting for her parents despite it being clear they're not coming back. Then in Last Jedi after accepting she has a part to play she's trying to figure out what that is while still wanting to reunite with her parents only to be forced to finally accept that they were never coming back.


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## Glued (May 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Your problem is you seem to think her struggles should be in combat when in reality they're mental struggles. She spends Force Awakens trying to stay out of the conflict and just stay on Jakku waiting for her parents despite it being clear they're not coming back. Then in Last Jedi after accepting she has a part to play she's trying to figure out what that is while still wanting to reunite with her parents only to be forced to finally accept that they were never coming back.



T'Challa also had his own internal struggles about letting other people in and coming to terms with the fact his father had slain his uncle. He was faced with the fact that his father and his ancestors were all wrong.

Hal Jordan had to admit that he was afraid and dealing with the trauma of his father's death.

Tony Stark had to come to terms with his own vanity, his fear of death, and his ptsd.

Lots of heroes have mental and emotional struggles, Rey's isn't that special.

Luke also had his own internal struggles of coming to terms with the fact his father was Vader and realizing the darkness within himself.

If all Rey has is mental struggles, then its honestly not impressive.

Secondly T'Challa being ridiculed by his sister and bodyguard is not related to combat nor is him being betrayed by W'Kabi. Not everyone is going to treat T'Challa like gold on rainbows. Despite being a king, his friends and family will take time to take their shots at him.

Chewbacca likes her.
Han wants to giver her job.
Leia likes her.
Finn likes her.
BB8 likes her.

Only Luke and the Fish Nuns seem to dislike her.

Luke only once in the movie treats her as the butt of a joke. And the Fish Nuns are the butt of the joke when dealing with Rey.

Finally, her mental struggles are shown poorly in the first and second film when Kylo Ren literally tells us that Rey has taken up Han as a father figure and in the second movie tells us she's attached herself to Luke. First rule of storytelling, show us don't tell us. Her few scenes with Han honestly don't show him as her father figure.


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## MartialHorror (May 11, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> I will have to disagree, a coming of age story isn't that hard. Star Wars isn't that complex, but its one of the first movies to show a coming of age story over 3 separate movies.
> .



It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but even if challenged more, people would still complain that she's just a female counterpart to Luke. They would complain that the 'coming-of-age' angle has already been exploited enough...and this wouldn't even be a case of right or wrong. There would always be something to complain about. 

I don't remember who, but I remember people complaining about the movie because they wanted to see the restored Jedi Temple. That's more on them than the movie. As I've said before, this isn't to say that "TLJ" is above criticism and I get that many people genuinely think it's a bad movie. It's just that even if it met your standards of 'good', it would still be divisive because the fandom would either think it's too formulaic or too different.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I like the new Star Wars movies, but my tastes tends towards horror and martial arts, although I certainly enjoy other forms of the action genre, comedies, thrillers, etc. Movies that are usually considered 'artsy fartsy' generally bore me, even ones that I am told I am supposed to like. I honestly never even thought about bringing up feminism, etc. in this debate until I heard a detractor call Holdo from TLJ a "Social Justice Warrior", in which I came to the conclusion that most people who were throwing around these kinds of terms had absolutely no idea what they were talking about...
> 
> Even those who like Kennedy or go overboard with their support of feminism, diversity, etc generally have similar tastes to anyone else. They like action, comedy, blockbusters and some will enjoy arthouse features or quiet dramas...as there are also members of the alt-right who also enjoy arthouse features and quiet dramas. This is why I think you're argument is inherently flawed. Most people are not that different. Some will be smart, some will be dumb, some will be noisy, others will be quiet and the rest will be whatever is more convenient for them at that time.
> 
> ...


If you think the word SJW is relevant, what is your definition?

What the fuck is thee alt right? Definition that makese sense from your pen.

Most leftists on this site are complete assholes so it's irrelevant where i got lumped or where i don't get lumped in. Results are the same.

We never experienced a good franchise managment so of course there is more bitching than average. The EU was managed kinda competently minus the video games sometimes.


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## Suigetsu (May 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> 1) You're drawing influence from 4Chan. That's the difference.


You are a block head arent you? it doesnt make any difference.



> 2) Um, actual political figures have used the term. It was coined by a Historian and popularized by that popular white supremacist dude (whose name I admittedly cannot remember at the moment). The anti-defamation league even talks about it. Steve Bannon openly admitted he is part of the alt-right. Saying it doesn't exist is about as valid as saying that Democrats do not exist.



Ahh yess, this is straight out of tabloids which are made by soyboys and leftist cucks. And you like a blockhead puppet go ahead and believe it all. Just like the americans that are still convinced 9/11 wasnt an inside job.
Now wouldnt the alt-right benefit from soyboys? since they are all pro capitalism and want their consumers to keep consumiung etc.. So why would they shame them then? This is where your whole argument falls flat on it's face.
You just got BTFO.



> 3) Not a single fact to be found in all of your points...and you are totally obsessive about the movie. You're more passionate than its fans are. So yes, you are a Soygetsu and even if that does not meet the actual definition, it's not like your use of it is any more accurate.


You are in literal denial at this point, I debunked all of your conjectures and you had to resort to trolling or playing the dumbstick. Which is kind of it suits you, I think I should call you now failed horror since you are a failed filmaker.



> Obsessed about the movie


 I could say the same thing about you, but in your case you defend it adamantly. I Throw shit at it because it is the emblem of the current problem that has hollywood has nothing to do with me being obsessed with it. It is fun to do so and when I see soyboys like you that keep replying just to get btfo, it gets tempting.

Also this is you putting words and labels on me again. 



> Can someone else please find some of these alleged facts in Soygetsu's posts? Kabal, you're allies with him, right? Am I seriously missing anything? All I can see are wrong statements and petty attacks.


How about you bring up some of my wrong statements then?


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## MartialHorror (May 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> How about you bring up some of my wrong statements then?



Thinking the alt-right doesn't exist (and falling back on...unrelated conspiracy theories to prove this?) and getting the term 'soyboy' wrong. The reference to 'soy' is based on how consuming it effects the male libido. Has nothing to do with mass consumption in general, unless that mess consumption is feminizing them, which means it would be a specific kind of mass consumption. 

Please keep talking though. I didn't know you were a conspiracy theorist too. Every post makes you seem smaller and more unhinged.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (May 12, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> If you think the word SJW is relevant, what is your definition?
> 
> What the fuck is thee alt right? Definition that makese sense from your pen.
> 
> ...



Whoops, didn't notice this. A Social Justice Warrior is somebody who promotes social issues (ie; feminism, racism) with fervor, but they're ultimately doing it for validation/making themselves look good.

The alt-right is trickier to define as it's not a formal party or group and its ideologies are somewhat loosely defined. Some treat it as just the 'far right' and is simply a more aggressive version of their opinions on social issues, particularly isolationism. Others use it for white nationalism, although I have to admit that I don't entirely understand why as being part of 'the right' has nothing really to do with race. I think the idea is that the alt-right feels normal conservatives give into multiculturalism too much these days, whereas they used to be more for segregation, but I will admit that I'm speculating a little bit. Others just use it to provoke people, which might be what Soygetsu is referring to when he calls it 'fake'. But even if 75% of its followers are trolls, there are obviously some believers who have adopted it. 

I don't know if you're part of the alt-right or anything, it's just that you seem to be a proponent of a lot of their talking points. For the record, if I thought anyone here from 'the left'- or anyone who shared my opinions- was acting out of line in their opinions, I would have no problem taking them on too. But I don't see that here. The only reason anyone in this thread is even bringing up politics is because they're being bated by Soygetsu, so now it has become 'the battle'. I don't wander outside of Konoha Theater, so I'm sure the cafe or political threads are an entirely different pair of monsters, but all this political talk has only stirred up the pot and if anything, certain people have buried your better points underneath a heap of vitriol.


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## Suigetsu (May 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Thinking the alt-right doesn't exist (and falling back on...unrelated conspiracy theories to prove this?) and getting the term 'soyboy' wrong. The reference to 'soy' is based on how consuming it effects the male libido. Has nothing to do with mass consumption in general, unless that mess consumption is feminizing them, which means it would be a specific kind of mass consumption.
> 
> Please keep talking though. I didn't know you were a conspiracy theorist too. Every post makes you seem smaller and more unhinged.


So let's sum it up:
attempted to put words in my mouth and it failed.
attempted to defend a shitty movie and failed.
continuation on dodging questions and statements or play the dumb card on porpuse.
failed to understand internet culture and brings up american political things to associate them, because all the internet must be based on the us, right?
Well, no wonder you really are a failed washed up pretentious wannabe film maker.

I can tell you got salty about it, otherwise you wouldnt be acting so stingy and hostile on every thread now. And it stings you because it is true. 
I said it once and I'll said it again, stop jerking off around here and get to actual work. Lest all that expensive filmschool you went to will be wasted.


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## Mider T (May 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Whoops, didn't notice this. A Social Justice Warrior is somebody who promotes social issues (ie; feminism, racism) with fervor, but they're ultimately doing it for validation/making themselves look good.
> 
> The alt-right is trickier to define as it's not a formal party or group and its ideologies are somewhat loosely defined. Some treat it as just the 'far right' and is simply a more aggressive version of their opinions on social issues, particularly isolationism. Others use it for white nationalism, although I have to admit that I don't entirely understand why as being part of 'the right' has nothing really to do with race. I think the idea is that the alt-right feels normal conservatives give into multiculturalism too much these days, whereas they used to be more for segregation, but I will admit that I'm speculating a little bit. Others just use it to provoke people, which might be what Soygetsu is referring to when he calls it 'fake'. But even if 75% of its followers are trolls, there are obviously some believers who have adopted it.
> 
> I don't know if you're part of the alt-right or anything, it's just that you seem to be a proponent of a lot of their talking points. For the record, if I thought anyone here from 'the left'- or anyone who shared my opinions- was acting out of line in their opinions, I would have no problem taking them on too. But I don't see that here. The only reason anyone in this thread is even bringing up politics is because they're being bated by Soygetsu, so now it has become 'the battle'. I don't wander outside of Konoha Theater, so I'm sure the cafe or political threads are an entirely different pair of monsters, but all this political talk has only stirred up the pot and if anything, certain people have buried your better points underneath a heap of vitriol.


Yeah he's a terrible poster.  He isn't very bright either.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (May 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> So let's sum it up:
> attempted to put words in my mouth and it failed.
> attempted to defend a shitty movie and failed.
> continuation on dodging questions and statements or play the dumb card on porpuse.
> ...



So let's sum it up:

Soygetsu is really salty right now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gaiash (May 12, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 14, 2018)

I don't care if you're cucks or soyboys or Nazis or white supremacists...this movie still sucks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So let's sum it up:
> 
> Soygetsu is really salty right now.


Disney is throwing salt all around, so everyone is salty.


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## ClandestineSchemer (May 15, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Disney is throwing salt all around, so everyone is salty.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (May 16, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Yeah he's a terrible poster.  He isn't very bright either.


Dude, all you do is spam. You honestly arent much better at it.


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## Mider T (May 16, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Dude, all you do is spam. You honestly arent much better at it.


Nope.  All my posts are quality, check my history.


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## Suigetsu (May 16, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Nope.  All my posts are quality, check my history.


You arent even hiding it anymore banana face.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mider T (May 16, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> You arent even hiding it anymore banana face.


Concession (stand) accepted.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Concession (stand) accepted.


It means your posts suck and you aint hidding it.

Boi.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 17, 2018)

It's more ile the Greater Malrood or an other Remnant  state at this point.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 17, 2018)

Mider T is the Rose Tico of this forum.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Mider T is the Rose Tico of this forum.





SAVAGE!


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## Mider T (May 17, 2018)

Nah I'm more like Poe Dameron than anyone else in TLJ.


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Nah I'm more like Poe Dameron than anyone else in TLJ.


So a cut out cardboard that just shit posts? it does make sense banana boi. Always dodging questions and not replying. Why banana boi why? you used to be better than that?
What happened to the old mider t that had a sense of humor?


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## Gaiash (May 17, 2018)

What's even going on this this thread?


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## MartialHorror (May 17, 2018)

Apparently some Soy and a Banana are at war with each-other.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So let's sum it up:
> 
> Soygetsu is really salty right now.


At the very least I have patrician taste and work in the industry that I like.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> I don't care if you're cucks or soyboys or Nazis or white supremacists...this movie still sucks.


Confirmed gor patrician taste.


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## MartialHorror (May 17, 2018)

Soygetsu said:


> At the very least I have patrician taste and work in the industry that I like.



Wow, that only took you...5 days to come up with? And you say that, but you're still so salty all the time.


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## MartialHorror (May 17, 2018)

Soygetsu said:


> Unlike you, I have places to be and projects to cook rather than spending all my days here. Maybe if you took my example you wouldnt be a washed up hack.



The problem is that...you kind of do spend all your days here, feuding with a banana and bitching about a movie that hasn't come out yet...Or has whining about the Solo movie become 'a project' now? I'm also not entirely sure you know what 'washed up' or 'hack' means, but you have a talent for distorting words, so I won't even bother there. 

I just think it's funny how salty you've gotten over me calling you Soygetsu. I've noticed that you ceased throwing around your favorite slang. But it's okay, Soygetsu...

We've all accepted your concession.


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## Suigetsu (May 17, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The problem is that...you kind of do spend all your days here, feuding with a banana.


Literally just today, shitposting on a different thread.
This is how I know I touched a soft spot, keep doing what you are doing. See where that takes you in life.


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## MartialHorror (May 17, 2018)

Sure thing, Soygetsu.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 19, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Nah I'm more like Poe Dameron than anyone else in TLJ.


In that case did you learn your lesson?

Do you enjoy being owned?


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## Suigetsu (May 19, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Sure thing, Soygetsu.


Wathever helps you sleep at night.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Suigetsu (May 19, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In that case did you learn your lesson?
> 
> Do you enjoy being owned?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Mider T (May 19, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In that case did you learn your lesson?
> 
> Do you enjoy being owned?


That's not one of the ways fortunately.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 19, 2018)

Mider T said:


> That's not one of the ways fortunately.


Tell us about the evil masculine stuff in you that needs to be changed and shamed?


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## Suigetsu (May 21, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Tell us about the evil masculine stuff in you that needs to be changed and shamed?


He will only reply if its an easy post. I doubt he is even serious about posting at all.


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## Mider T (May 21, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> doibt


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 22, 2018)

That is one way to describe your ideological incoherence.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 23, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Tell us about the evil masculine stuff in you that needs to be changed and shamed?



Ya know, I have my fair share of issues with TLJ but this one I will never get.

Poe being wrong and Holdo is right = "STAR WARS HATES MENNN"?! Like sure, call Holdo's decision dumb but trying to project some nefarious ulterior motive on the writers is coming out of nowhere when you can really just chalk it up to poor/sloppy writing. Sounds more to me like the bleating of a bunch of insecure dudes tbh


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Ya know, I have my fair share of issues with TLJ but this one I will never get.
> 
> Poe being wrong and Holdo is right = "STAR WARS HATES MENNN"?! Like sure, call Holdo's decision dumb but trying to project some nefarious ulterior motive on the writers is coming out of nowhere when you can really just chalk it up to poor/sloppy writing. Sounds more to me like the bleating of a bunch of insecure dudes tbh


Is it really hard to get decent writing?

Besides politics why this giant fuck up?

i would rather watch Jupiter Ascending.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 23, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Is it really hard to get decent writing?
> 
> Besides politics why this giant fuck up?
> 
> i would rather watch Jupiter Ascending.



...yes? Good writing isn't some inexhaustible tangible resource studios can summon at a whim. Almost every movie ever made has momentary deficiencies in 'good writing'. For me, The Last Jedi's was Canto Bight.

I'm glad Poe got development anyhow as a member of the new trio. It's a pretty refreshing arc. It's Finn that gets the short straw out of the group.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> ...yes? Good writing isn't some inexhaustible tangible resource studios can summon at a whim. Almost every movie ever made has momentary deficiencies in 'good writing'. For me, The Last Jedi's was Canto Bight.
> 
> I'm glad Poe got development anyhow as a member of the new trio. It's a pretty refreshing arc. It's Finn that gets the short straw out of the group.


Development, that's a good one.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> ...yes? Good writing isn't some inexhaustible tangible resource studios can summon at a whim. Almost every movie ever made has momentary deficiencies in 'good writing'. For me, The Last Jedi's was Canto Bight.
> 
> I'm glad Poe got development anyhow as a member of the new trio. It's a pretty refreshing arc. It's Finn that gets the short straw out of the group.


All MCU movies had better writing. Last Jedi was clearly worst than mediocre. DTV movies have better scripts. You can summon better with Disney money.

He was right. I say he was just humiliated by the script.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 23, 2018)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Development, that's a good one.



Whether you liked its execution or not, Poe went from a hothead to a more cautious leader. It's pretty cut-and-dry.



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> All MCU movies had better writing. Last Jedi was clearly worst than mediocre. DTV movies have better scripts. You can summon better with Disney money.
> 
> He was nright. I say he was just humiliated by the script.



All MCU movies? Nah, The Last Jedi is pretty dope. Still top 2 Star Wars movies for me, and better than any MCU flick save maybe Black Panther.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Whether you liked its execution or not, Poe went from a hothead to a more cautious leader. It's pretty cut-and-dry.
> 
> 
> 
> All MCU movies? Nah, The Last Jedi is pretty dope. Still top 2 Star Wars movies for me, and better than any MCU flick save maybe Black Panther.


Yeah becazuse execution is irrelevant.

If you want dopeness and not a good movie....


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## Gaiash (May 23, 2018)

Man I hope the complaints about Solo when it comes out are just as petty and hilarious was the hate for this movie. I don't know what my opinion on it is going to be but knowing Star Wars fans they're going to overreact.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 23, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Yeah becazuse execution is irrelevant.
> 
> If you want dopeness and not a good movie....



What do you think dope means lmao

It means I thought it was great, execution and all


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 23, 2018)

Backlash for Solo will probably be less than this mess, unless Han and Lando start anally penetrating each other on screen.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> What do you think dope means lmao
> 
> It means I thought it was great, execution and all


I find some shitty movies dope becaus of things unrelated to their quality.



Gaiash said:


> Man I hope the complaints about Solo when it comes out are just as petty and hilarious was the hate for this movie. I don't know what my opinion on it is going to be but knowing Star Wars fans they're going to overreact.


They are easy to please.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 23, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Whether you liked its execution or not, Poe went from a hothead to a more cautious leader. It's pretty cut-and-dry.


Actually it's the opposite, while he was a hothead he took proper actions. None of the actions he took ended up being the wrong ones.


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## ATastyMuffin (May 23, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I find some shitty movies dope becaus of things unrelated to their quality.



Yeah, and I found The Last Jedi to be quality.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (May 24, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Yeah, and I found The Last Jedi to be quality.


Which ideas come across clearly?


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## ATastyMuffin (May 24, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Which ideas come across clearly?



Visuals, soundtrack, big fan of Rey/Kylo's dynamic and arcs, Hamill gave a terrific performance and Luke's rediscovery of optimism was really well done. Conceptually, I love TLJ in that it challenges the black/white nature of the Rebel/Empire struggle and turns it grey. Heroes can fail, like Luke. Heroes sometimes need to step back, like Poe. Sometimes heroes don't need to engage in pointless sacrifice, like Finn. Thematically, it's the most cohesive and well-written Star Wars film, and the direction it took was ballsy as hell.

Oh, and the throne room fight scene was awesome. Less the second time around, but great nonetheless.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## dr_shadow (May 24, 2018)

Stop talking about this movie already!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (May 31, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> Stop talking about this movie already!



It's gonna be on Netflix soon.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 1, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Visuals, soundtrack, big fan of Rey/Kylo's dynamic and arcs, Hamill gave a terrific performance and Luke's rediscovery of optimism was really well done. Conceptually, I love TLJ in that it challenges the black/white nature of the Rebel/Empire struggle and turns it grey. Heroes can fail, like Luke. Heroes sometimes need to step back, like Poe. Sometimes heroes don't need to engage in pointless sacrifice, like Finn. Thematically, it's the most cohesive and well-written Star Wars film, and the direction it took was ballsy as hell.
> 
> Oh, and the throne room fight scene was awesome. Less the second time around, but great nonetheless.


What did they do with all that greyness? 

Why do we want SW to be just  another crime or or war movie? Why do the main guys have to be grey in terms of galactic importance?

Just based on what i see on the screen Poe was right. Also there was no foreshadowing of that conflict. Also Holdo does not have enough screen time or logic for me to feel sympathy for her.

Those animals sure needed rescuing.

It was ballsy and it went wrong.


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## Gaiash (Jun 1, 2018)




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## Mickey Mouse (Jun 1, 2018)

@Sennin of Hardwork please mod fuck @Ghost_of_Gashir for this affront please. Absolute Justice!

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 5, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> What did they do with all that greyness?



Introduce a completely new take on the nature of Star Wars? Good vs. Evil, Empire vs. Rebels, Jedi vs. Sith? It was all thrown into question with The Last Jedi. 

I find that awesome. 



> Why do we want SW to be just  another crime or or war movie? Why do the main guys have to be grey in terms of galactic importance?



Who said they have to be? I'm saying I enjoyed the new direction they took. By contrast, why does Star Wars have to be Luke's return and him Force-slaughtering armies or whatever it is fans want? Or Snoke being some uber-powerful primordial Jedi or Rey's parents being important?



> Just based on what i see on the screen Poe was right. Also there was no foreshadowing of that conflict. Also Holdo does not have enough screen time or logic for me to feel sympathy for her.
> 
> Those animals sure needed rescuing.
> 
> It was ballsy and it went wrong.



Okay dude, lol.

We're really not going to get anywhere and it appears you're pretty entrenched in this mindset. I like The Last Jedi and you don't. Big whoop.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jun 5, 2018)



Reactions: Informative 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 5, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


>



Star Wars fandom the worst one, news at 11.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mider T (Jun 5, 2018)

Yeah they're cringeworthy.  Ruin everything.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Yeah they're cringeworthy.  Ruin everything.



Kind of like your posts tbh fam

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mider T (Jun 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> Kind of like your posts tbh fam


Nah you're wrong.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Nah you're wrong.



Nah.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 5, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Star Wars fandom the worst one, news at 11.





Mider T said:


> Yeah they're cringeworthy.  Ruin everything.





Fang said:


> Kind of like your posts tbh fam



So...you're acknowledging that the Star Wars fandom is cringeworthy?


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## Aeternus (Jun 5, 2018)

All fandoms have people like that. Plus, if you are part of this industry, stuff like this come with it. You should be prepared and not do stuff like quitting (which I doubt it is going to last).


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

I saw the tweets directed at her from someone saving them and its just a bunch of people saying she was terrible in TLJ, hardly harassment. And in any case when you are an actor or actress, you lose the general privilege of anonymity and place yourself in the spotlight for better or worse. That comes with the job.

Kind of like how MartialHorror's posts keep getting more cringy but he thinks that's okay. 
I don't know, I just assume he's saying something stupid typically.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 5, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> All fandoms have people like that. Plus, if you are part of this industry, stuff like this come with it. You should be prepared and not do stuff like quitting (which I doubt it is going to last).



Yes, but the Star Wars fandom is more vast and obsessive than most fandoms. It's also one of the only fandoms where the toxic element grabbed the attention of the mainstream media. Remember, this is the same fandom that drove Lucas into retirement and the actor who played young Ani into hating Star Wars.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Jun 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> Nah.


Yeah.  You implicitly allow the cancer that is the diehard fanbase.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Yeah.  You implicitly allow the cancer that is the diehard fanbase.



But I hate Sequelfags?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 5, 2018)

How old does one have to be to still use ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) liberally like that?

13? 14?


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## MartialHorror (Jun 5, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> How old does one have to be to still use ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) liberally like that?
> 
> 13? 14?



I was wondering that too. But I thought '^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)' was only a popular insult during my day, before it became obsolete like 'dork'.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 5, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I was wondering that too. But I thought '^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)' was only a popular insult during my day, before it became obsolete like 'dork'.



It's still popular amongst preteens. But if you're older than that and still using it, lol.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 5, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> It's still popular amongst preteens. But if you're older than that and still using it, lol.



Meh, kids these days.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 5, 2018)

^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) as an insult is still going strong in Europe.
We are a very traditional continent.
New slang is rarely accepted. I still have the urge to punch people who say things like fuckboi instead of "playa".


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 5, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) as an insult is still going strong in Europe.
> We are a very traditional continent.
> New slang is rarely accepted. I still have the urge to punch people who say things like fuckboi instead of "playa".



Both can work, but seeing as fuckboi is an insult it doesn't make sense for a guy to be calling another guy a fuckboi.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 5, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Both can work, but seeing as fuckboi is an insult it doesn't make sense for a guy to be calling another guy a fuckboi.



I saw plenty of people trying to put a spin on it.
Similar to how a few years ago some feminazis were trying to twist bitch into some kinda sexual liberation compliment thing.

People are weird.


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## dr_shadow (Jun 5, 2018)

This thread. 

@Sennin of Hardwork 

Can we try to consolidate all the generic "Disneywars sux, burn Kathleen Kennedy" banter in one thread, rather than have it spread across now three Star Wars threads all on the first page?

IMO generic bitching goes best in the Solo thread since that's the movie currently playing. This thread should be for things specific to EPVIII and the other thread for predictions about EPIX.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

The damage for Disney Star Wars is going to continue unabated no matter which thread is up.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jun 5, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> This thread.
> 
> @Sennin of Hardwork
> 
> ...



Yeah you're right, it's time to organize things around. I was already thinking on some things for a while ever since the year began so there should be developments in this section for all Star Wars related content. A long time ago some members did suggest to create a SW sub-section for all the new material just like one was created for comic book adaptations, so that is overdue I think.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## dr_shadow (Jun 5, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Yeah you're right, it's time to organize things around. I was already thinking on some things for a while ever since the year began so there should be developments in this section for all Star Wars related content. A long time ago some members did suggest to create a SW sub-section for all the new material just like one was created for comic book adaptations, so that is overdue I think.



Doesn't have to be that extreme IMO. Just tell people to keep discussion of the same topic in one thread, and if necessary move posts to the currently "main" SW thread.

But this is your section and you decide how ambitious you want to be. My Republic Credits don't work out here.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ennoea (Jun 5, 2018)

The fandom is kinda shitty. Even Daisy blocked her comments become of dumb ass racist comments against John Boyega.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

Ridley should spend less time on twitter anyway and more time learning how to act or she'll continue being Emily Clarke 2.0. But Bogeya didn't really help when he said plenty of stupid shit himself with the intent to be a shock-jockey.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> Ridley should spend less time on twitter anyway and more time learning how to act or she'll continue being Emily Clarke 2.0. But Bogeya didn't really help when he said plenty of stupid shit himself with the intent to be a shock-jockey.


I honestly can't tell if Ridley is a good actress or not since the material these movies give their actors is complete shit 

at least Isaacs and Boyega can skirt by on their charisma a bit


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## Mider T (Jun 5, 2018)

Most of the people calling her a bad actress have only ever seen her in Star Wars and maybe Murder on the Orient Express, nothing else.


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## Fang (Jun 5, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Most of the people calling her a bad actress have only ever seen her in Star Wars and maybe Murder on the Orient Express, nothing else.



Because she is a bad actress.


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## Mider T (Jun 5, 2018)

Fang said:


> Because she is a bad actress.


What else have you seen her in?


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 6, 2018)

Ennoea said:


> The fandom is kinda shitty. Even Daisy blocked her comments become of dumb ass racist comments against John Boyega.



Kelly Marie Tran also removed all her Instagram posts recently because of harassment from the fandom _directed at her, _so that's one more tick on the toxic fandom box.


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Mider T said:


> What else have you seen her in?



How much does the Mouse pay you to shill this much?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 6, 2018)

Fang said:


> How much does the Mouse pay you to shill this much?


he is payed less than I am


get on my level @Mider T


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## Mider T (Jun 6, 2018)

^Paid*



Fang said:


> How much does the Mouse pay you to shill this much?


So...nothing?  Ridley isn't a contract studio actress for Disney btw.


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Mider T said:


> ^Paid*
> 
> 
> So...nothing?  Ridley isn't a contract studio actress for Disney btw.



>doesn't know how shilling works
Sasuga


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## Mider T (Jun 6, 2018)

Fang said:


> >doesn't know how shilling works
> Sasuga


*Yawn* Losing your touch Fang


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Mider T said:


> *Yawn* Losing your touch Fang



t. MIDF


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## Gaiash (Jun 6, 2018)

Mider T said:


> *Yawn* Losing your touch Fang


Fang had a touch to lose?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Fang had a touch to loose?



*lose

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 6, 2018)

Whatever is people's gripes with this movie-- She always came across as a good person who is just doing her job.

MH could be right..Star Wars fans are the worst.


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Its just Disney marketing at work to deflect away from why Solo is bombing and failing at the box office so hard. Rian is meanwhile currently insulting the "manbabies" of the franchise. Is there any better way to kill a decades old franchise then to turn the fans away from you? Hats off to you, Disney.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Mider T (Jun 6, 2018)

Disney told Tran to delete her IG?


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

Infinity Gauntlet?


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 6, 2018)

i don't follow this social media nonsense because it's pure garbage...(and I have better shit to do like, say, watch paint dry)

but a lot of this reeks of the same bullshit they tried to pull for Ghostbusters 2016's backlash... AKA deflection.

_Oh, people think our product is shit?_

they MUST be misogynists, racists and w/e other popular term shitbirds are using this decade when they don't hav any real counter arguments.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 6, 2018)

Ghostbusters was clear bullshit.
But this I actually can buy.

I mean the kid who played slave anakin, was heavily bullied for it.
To the point he became fucked for life.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 6, 2018)

For what it's worth, people starting bitching about the "Ghostbusters" reboot starring women as soon as it was announced. That is...at least sort of misogynistic...Now yes, once the incredibly atrocious trailer was released and the movie came out and underwhelmed audiences, leading to a disappointing box office run, the studio did start crying 'misogyny'...but the haters had given them the ammo to defend their failing movie with.

And I have no doubt in my mind that this actress is getting harassed. If Fang, who's supposed to be a reasonable SW fan and not 'an arrogant douche' can call her a 'mongoloid pig' and think that's perfectly acceptable behavior, then imagine what the toxic side of the fanbase is like.

I used to be in the 'video reviewing' community and if a female producer did something people didn't like, they'd receive death and rape threats. It's probably a lot worse in the film industry.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Gaiash (Jun 6, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> but a lot of this reeks of the same bullshit they tried to pull for Ghostbusters 2016's backlash... AKA deflection.
> 
> _Oh, people think our product is shit?_
> 
> they MUST be misogynists, racists and w/e other popular term shitbirds are using this decade when they don't hav any real counter arguments.


Or they were specifically addressing the people who were hating it for sexist reasons (before anyone had even seen the movie) that used people who hated it for other reasons as a disguise to make the overreaction they were making seem justified. Anyone who hated it for understandable reasons had no reason to make such a big deal about it.


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## Atlas (Jun 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> *For what it's worth, people starting bitching about the "Ghostbusters" reboot starring women as soon as it was announced.* That is...at least sort of misogynistic...Now yes, once the incredibly atrocious trailer was released and the movie came out and underwhelmed audiences, leading to a disappointing box office run, the studio did start crying 'misogyny'...but the haters had given them the ammo to defend their failing movie with.
> 
> And I have no doubt in my mind that this actress is getting harassed. If Fang, who's supposed to be a reasonable SW fan and not 'an arrogant douche' can call her a 'mongoloid pig' and think that's perfectly acceptable behavior, then imagine what the toxic side of the fanbase is like.
> 
> I used to be in the 'video reviewing' community and if a female producer did something people didn't like, they'd receive death and rape threats. It's probably a lot worse in the film industry.



Probably because it's a stupid fucking idea. Last thing I want is to have a trend start where we start making "female" versions of every damn movie in existence.


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Ghostbusters was clear bullshit.
> But this I actually can buy.
> 
> I mean the kid who played slave anakin, was heavily bullied for it.
> To the point he became fucked for life.



According to Rian Johnson if you didn't support the female Ghostbusters movie, you are "toxic" and insecure.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> For what it's worth, people starting bitching about the "Ghostbusters" reboot starring women as soon as it was announced. That is...at least sort of misogynistic...Now yes, once the incredibly atrocious trailer was released and the movie came out and underwhelmed audiences, leading to a disappointing box office run, the studio did start crying 'misogyny'...but the haters had given them the ammo to defend their failing movie with.



Eh that movie had a horrible rollout. I see less backlash for the new Ocean 8 movie because it doesn't come off as cheap or as exploitive.

I'm sure some were misogynistic..but to say that if the movie didn't sit right with you you're displaying misogyny...I dunno about that


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## MartialHorror (Jun 6, 2018)

Atlas said:


> Probably because it's a stupid fucking idea. Last thing I want is to have a trend start where we start making "female" versions of every damn movie in existence.



For me, it was the only idea that kind of interested me, as it meant I'd be less inclined to compare it to the original...and where is this trend? Either way, the movie ended up being disappointingly bland, so the cast ended up not really mattering anyway. 



~Gesy~ said:


> Eh that movie had a horrible rollout. I see less backlash for the new Ocean 8 movie because it doesn't come off as cheap or as exploitive.
> 
> I'm sure some were misogynistic..but to say that if the movie didn't sit right with you you're displaying misogyny...I dunno about that



That's not really what I'm saying. If you see the "Ghostbusters" trailer and think it looked like garbage, that's perfectly acceptable and probably a requirement if you want to have decent tastes. If you don't like the cast, that's perfectly acceptable and I will admit that I've never been a fan of Kirsten Wiig or Melissa McCarthy (I wasn't aware of the other two). But as I said, people were bitching about it from the moment the project was announced and there comments weren't along the lines of "Don't remake Ghostbusters" or "Melissa McCarthy is unfunny", it was of the 'stay in the kitchen' kind of slam. 

Now once again, when the trailers started getting panned, the studio quickly jumped to misogyny to save face...as they obviously wouldn't own up to a shitty trailer. But they wouldn't have been able to resort to that if the movie wasn't already facing waves upon waves of misogynistic venting. 

Star Wars is the same way. Regardless of what you feel about Kennedy, people whining about Fin being black or the protagonist being a female from the beginning ultimately gave Disney, Lucasfilms, Kennedy, etc. a way out. It was ultimately the more toxic side of the hatedom that has allowed the people behind the new Star Wars films to save face.


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## Gaiash (Jun 6, 2018)

This video is about Gamergate but I think it's points are relevant to this discussion


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jun 6, 2018)




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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 6, 2018)

Mark is awesome.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If Fang, who's supposed to be a reasonable SW fan and not 'an arrogant douche' can call her a* 'mongoloid pig'*




I ain't gonna lie bruh...there was a part of me that asked while watching the movie: _"why did the pretty sister have to die? Why are we stuck with this piglet instead?"_

Rose is the worst character


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## Fang (Jun 6, 2018)

What a moon face.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 6, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> T relevant to this discussion



Here's a point of actual relevance to the discussion. Notice anything off about this?


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 7, 2018)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Here's a point of actual relevance to the discussion. Notice anything off about this?



Is it the fact all those planets are ten feet apart?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 7, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Is it the fact all those planets are ten feet apart?


Yes. It's hilarious. I don't remember the prequels so blatantly screwing up something like a planets orbit.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 7, 2018)

And apparently the republic and resistance was just those five planets that are all right next to each other.

I thought there was an entire galaxy?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 7, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> And apparently the republic and resistance was just those five planets that are all right next to each other.
> 
> I thought there was an entire galaxy?


It's so poorly thought out, it's obvious. The planets aren't orbiting or moving and they just happened to be positioned perfectly for the beam to work.
It's almost like they dropped some planet models in a row.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 7, 2018)

I also like that the ships didn't react at all, when people could look out their window and see it.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 7, 2018)

or how they could see the space laser of doom striking at planets from across the galaxy from Not-Yoda's palace bar...in real time, cuz that's how space works.

TFA was a rehash with JJ shit-stains smeared all over it...but in my shriveled heart I knew that a competent team could build something from the wreckage of that movie.

unfortunately, the opposite happened.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jun 7, 2018)

Also Abrams WANTED Maz to be more of a Yoda expy then she already was from what deleted concept art and storyboards and earlier drafts of TFA had her role being. She was going to use the Force in ways on the big screen that Yoda never did but this was rejected by other writers for the script and his bosses because they did not like the comparison. Same thing with the "Hosnian" system being destroyed by Starkiller, it was intended originally to be Coruscant. There was also supposed to be more inclusions and references to the Prequels and Anakin in the Clone Wars with a little montage thing.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> Also Abrams WANTED Maz to be more of a Yoda expy then she already was from what deleted concept art and storyboards and earlier drafts of TFA had her role being. She was going to use the Force in ways on the big screen that Yoda never did but this was rejected by other writers for the script and his bosses because they did not like the comparison. Same thing with the "Hosnian" system being destroyed by Starkiller, it was intended originally to be Coruscant. There was also supposed to be more inclusions and references to the Prequels and Anakin in the Clone Wars with a little montage thing.



"Here's this character whose just like Yoda, but way cooler because it's a girl and she's orange and she's even older than Yoda, and she can use the force even better than Yoda!" 

So much for respecting the characters, story and movies that came before you. 

What a fucking fanfiction.net level writer JJ is. All he does is rehash shit or make a million open ended threads with no good solutions. No wonder he created a character like MaRey Sue.

And then there's Rian Johnson, who could've done a million things with those million open ended threads that JJ made and he does the laziest, safest, and least ambitious things with it...aka nothing.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 7, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> "Here's this character whose just like Yoda, but way cooler because it's a girl and she's orange and she's even older than Yoda, and she can use the force even better than Yoda!"
> 
> So much for respecting the characters, story and movies that came before you.
> 
> ...


I think attempting to kill the concept of the Light and Dark side is ambitious.

And fucking STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 7, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I think attempting to kill the concept of the Light and Dark side is ambitious.
> 
> And fucking STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That part could have worked.
They just should have made it Luke's new path, while leaving it ambiguous whether it's correct in the first place.
In real life there are countless philosophies, non proven to be better than the other.

Showing the benefits of a more open minded approach and the pitfalls of walking closer to the dark side.
Show conflict, with the sith trying to tip her over and the dangers of the new way.

But nope.
They did the most retarded thing and just make it seem like everything before was wrong.
Are we supposed to believe nobody before even attempted a more neutral approach between the emotionlessly restrained Jedi and the no morals whatsoever Sith?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 7, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> That part could have worked.
> They just should have made it Luke's new path, while leaving it ambiguous whether it's correct in the first place.
> In real life there are countless philosophies, non proven to be better than the other.
> 
> ...


I am open to the evil side stories or even a trilogy but Star Wars should never attempt to be overly philosophically complex, especially not in a mainstream movie.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 7, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I am open to the evil side stories or even a trilogy but Star Wars should never attempt to be overly philosophically complex, especially not in a mainstream movie.



It doesn't need to actually be too complex.
They just need to make it seem like there is a deeper lore behind the simple concepts they talk about in the movie.

Look at the original trilogy. The force is explained simply and loosely.
However they always implied some sense of profoundness, that hid just how shallow it was.

Basically Mel Brooks's skit in the history of the world sums it up best.


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## Glued (Jun 7, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> or how they could see the space laser of doom striking at planets from across the galaxy from Not-Yoda's palace bar...in real time, cuz that's how space works.
> 
> TFA was a rehash with JJ shit-stains smeared all over it...but in my shriveled heart I knew that a competent team could build something from the wreckage of that movie.
> 
> unfortunately, the opposite happened.



Star Wars can still be saved, just call Stephen Dilane, aka Stannis the Mannis Baratheon.

Make him the new Tarkin or Thrawn.

Throw in Melissandre as a Dathomiri witch.

STANNIS, STANNIS, STANNIS!!!


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## Mider T (Jun 7, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Star Wars can still be saved, just call Stephen Dilane, aka Stannis the Mannis Baratheon.


You mean Thomas Jefferson.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Glued (Jun 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> You mean Thomas Jefferson.



And Mr. Papadopoulos.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 8, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> It doesn't need to actually be too complex.
> They just need to make it seem like there is a deeper lore behind the simple concepts they talk about in the movie.
> 
> Look at the original trilogy. The force is explained simply and loosely.
> ...


Yeah and IRL philosophy and social science picks apart whatever they come up with quick.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 8, 2018)

I'm a little disappointed that they closed the "Would Hitler or Stalin do a better job with Star Wars than Kennedy" thread, as I'm very curious as to how the Kennedy haters would've reacted to it. Kamal apparently thinks it's OK to give the reigns of Star Wars to people who were responsible for the death of millions, just because he really hates Kennedy and her politics.

This is why it's so easy for Lucasfilms to dismiss the haters.

At the absolute least, it would've been funny seeing some of the more hardcore haters trying to downplay this or defend this...logic.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I'm a little disappointed that they closed the "Would Hitler or Stalin do a better job with Star Wars than Kennedy" thread, as I'm very curious as to how the Kennedy haters would've reacted to it. Kamal apparently thinks it's OK to give the reigns of Star Wars to people who were responsible for the death of millions, just because he really hates Kennedy and her politics.
> 
> This is why it's so easy for Lucasfilms to dismiss the haters.
> 
> At the absolute least, it would've been funny seeing some of the more hardcore haters trying to downplay this or defend this...logic.



To be fair, both of those guys should be able to create an incredible dark empire for the story line.
Kylo might have been an engaging villain. 
After all, they were masters of using propaganda for nefarious purposes.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 8, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> To be fair, both of those guys should be able to create an incredible dark empire for the story line.
> Kylo might have been an engaging villain.
> After all, they were masters of using propaganda for nefarious purposes.



Yeah, and I'm sure the message would be "Hate the Jews and other undesirables."

And 'incredible dark empire'? The Empire would probably be the protagonists!


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I'm a little disappointed that they closed the "Would Hitler or Stalin do a better job with Star Wars than Kennedy" thread, as I'm very curious as to how the Kennedy haters would've reacted to it. Kamal apparently thinks it's OK to give the reigns of Star Wars to people who were responsible for the death of millions, just because he really hates Kennedy and her politics.
> 
> This is why it's so easy for Lucasfilms to dismiss the haters.
> 
> At the absolute least, it would've been funny seeing some of the more hardcore haters trying to downplay this or defend this...logic.


If Lucasfilms is just looking to the most extreme satire or offensive thing people can come up with they should not be in business.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> If Lucasfilms is just looking to the most extreme satire or offensive thing people can come up with they should not be in business.



What are you talking about?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> If Lucasfilms is just looking to the most extreme satire or offensive thing people can come up with they should not be in business.



Yeah, what are you talking about?


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## Fang (Jun 8, 2018)

>TLJ blu-rays haven't even hit 2 million copies as of right now
>In the same time frame TFA did over 3.4 million 

This is great

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Jun 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> What are you talking about?





ATastyMuffin said:


> Yeah, what are you talking about?



Kamal and dementia, name a more iconic duo


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 9, 2018)

The sentence i answered:


This is why it's so easy for Lucasfilms to dismiss the haters.




MartialHorror said:


> What are you talking about?


If they are cherrypicking the most extreme opinion's real or saitrical they are idiots.


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## Gaiash (Jun 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> If they are cherrypicking the most extreme opinion's real or saitrical they are idiots.


Or they're specifically addressing said opinions and people who don't express them are just assuming their criticisms apply to them too.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> The sentence i answered:
> 
> 
> This is why it's so easy for Lucasfilms to dismiss the haters.
> ...



Actually, they're being crafty because it allows them to blame the extreme haters and save face.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Actually, they're being crafty because it allows them to blame the extreme haters and save face.


that could have worked 20 years ago...

today, you just have to open your browser and w/e news aggregate you favor practically revels in the failure of major properties.

See the problem with Star Wars now, at least for me, is that_ I don't hate it_...
Hate means you're still incredibly passionate and passion can be refocused, redirected and redeemed right back into love.

What KK and her minions have done is far worse_they've made me indifferent to the future of Star Wars; utterly indifferent.

And indifference is hard to come back from.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Actually, they're being crafty because it allows them to blame the extreme haters and save face.


How many people predicted the second non trilogy movie will do Solo numbers?

I think they are shooting off their own legs.

Crafty? it's the oldest trick in the book.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 9, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> The thing about rage though, once it hits a limit, you become indifferent. Once all that anger subsides, you just stop caring.
> 
> The horrific truth is that Star Wars is bleeding and Sony is biting at Disney with Jumanji. Sony of all companies is trying to take a bite out of Disney. Imagine a small mako attacking a great white.
> 
> ...


Two Social Justice tards, one prize.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> How many people predicted the second non trilogy movie will do Solo numbers?
> 
> I think they are shooting off their own legs.
> 
> Crafty? it's the oldest trick in the book.



You're missing the point. They aren't blaming themselves for Star Wars failing. They're blaming you.


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You're missing the point. They aren't blaming themselves for Star Wars failing. They're blaming you.


Blamign me is a bad and weak strategy for Disney with it's resources.

Like i said,, what they are doing is retarded.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Blamign me is a bad and weak strategy for Disney with it's resources.
> 
> Like i said,, what they are doing is retarded.



As is insinuating that Hitler and Stalin> Kennedy.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> As is insinuating that Hitler and Stalin> Kennedy.


At least my retarded speculation does not cost me money.


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## Mider T (Jun 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> At least my retarded speculation

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gaiash (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> As is insinuating that Hitler and Stalin> Kennedy.


Wait, is that something Kamal actually did?


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## MartialHorror (Jun 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> At least my retarded speculation does not cost me money.



Only respect.

I've made great efforts to understand the hatedom and even respect their opinions, but it seems like so many of you want to be perceived as bitter, obsessive, spiteful little shits. Even though you refer to it as retarded, you've yet to take it back or admit that you were wrong. You hate Kennedy so much that you think those guys would do less damage to the brand, even though Hitler had a Titanic movie made where the sinking of the Titanic was blamed by the Jews...and in real life, the Gestapo had the director killed for complaining about how the Nazi Officers were molesting the female staff. 

But hey, you're sure showing those feminists...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Only respect.


What happens if Konoha Theatre does not respect me?



Gaiash said:


> Wait, is that something Kamal actually did?



i think Zomibie Hitler + Zombie Stalin would be better franchise managers for Star Wars as long as they understand it's for a global audience and there are a lot of democracies. also their involvement must be kept a secret.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 10, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Wait, is that something Kamal actually did?



Yes. It was up for like 10 minutes before it was taken down.



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> What happens if Konoha Theatre does not respect me?
> 
> 
> 
> i think Zomibie Hitler + Zombie Stalin would be better franchise managers for Star Wars as long as they understand it's for a global audience and there are a lot of democracies. also their involvement must be kept a secret.



I added to my previous post. 

I myself have given up on the hatedom. Whatever good points you have against the franchise is sort of negated by...this...I really did try to give the lot of you the benefit of the doubt, but now, I think you all deserve Kennedy.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yes. It was up for like 10 minutes before it was taken down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Disney Star Wars is a dead franchise for me. All i do is read old EU.

I don't think if you look at the amount of money fans spent on SW that we deserve Kennedy.

You say it like i supported Iraq War blindly, i deserve the Bush spying programs. Tone down the drama.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Disney Star Wars is a dead franchise for me. All i do is read old EU.
> 
> I don't think if you look at the amount of money fans spent on SW that we deserve Kennedy.
> 
> You say it like i supported Iraq War blindly, i deserve the Bush spying programs. Tone down the drama.



If it's dead to you, why do you consider to obsess over it?

I don't care how much money ya'll spent, if your mindsets are poison. 

No, I say it like you said that a guy whose 'management' lead to the murder/staged suicide of his director because said director protested the sexual abuse that the Nazi's were inflicting upon the female staff is better than the gal whose gender politics alienated part of the fandom. I mean, do I need to explain this to you? 

What would damage the franchise more? "Solo" bombing or Kennedy putting Lord and Miller to death because they talked back? Are you really going to keep trying to defend this? And if I really want to indulge in your stupid topic, I would point out that you talk of them 'understanding a Global audience' or whatever, but they don't. They understood the population they want to control, which is why their films were propaganda. You could even say that they thrived by shoving their own politics down their audiences throats. You've spent all this time insisting that there are no racist Star Wars fans, but now you're suggesting that those whose cinematic contributions were all heavily rooted in racism would be preferable to a women whose gender politics you disagree with.

Then again, considering all of the politics you seem to support, I'm almost expecting to hear you start spouting off a conspiracy about how the Jews are ruling the world, so maybe I should've seen this coming. 

Also, as a final note, it was Joseph Goebbels who seemed to be in charge of the German film industry at the time, not Hitler.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If it's dead to you, why do you consider to obsess over it?
> 
> I don't care how much money ya'll spent, if your mindsets are poison.
> 
> ...


It's fascinating to watch the superbowl of movies be  fucked up by identity politics.

At least the Nazis did a lot of decent crowd pleasers that maybe had a couple fo cringe nazis scenes and that was it. Based on what i read. I need to watch and read more Stalinism era movies.

I would have to read up on Stalin but all of it was probably not rooted in propaganda.

Why the fuck would i think the Jews run the world because i am right winger?


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## MartialHorror (Jun 10, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It's fascinating to watch the superbowl of movies be  fucked up by identity politics.
> 
> At least the Nazis did a lot of decent crowd pleasers that maybe had a couple fo cringe nazis scenes and that was it. Based on what i read. I need to watch and read more Stalinism era movies.
> 
> ...



And now you're praising the Nazi's. I'm done.

Hey Fang, is this still the vast minority? There aren't that many people discussing Star Wars here, but at least one thinks Nazi's did decent crowd pleasers. Do you still think it's all Disney and Lucasfilms deflecting?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> And now you're praising the Nazi's. I'm done.
> 
> Hey Fang, is this still the vast minority? There aren't that many people discussing Star Wars here, but at least one thinks Nazi's did decent crowd pleasers. Do you still think it's all Disney and Lucasfilms deflecting?


Did i say that i would prefer the nazi government and the film culture of Nazis to Weimar continuing and WW2 never happening?

I did not.

Not only making propganda trash is not a praise.

There are plenty of amazing watchable Soviet movies.


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## Atlas (Jun 10, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> And now you're praising the Nazi's. I'm done.
> 
> Hey Fang, is this still the vast minority? There aren't that many people discussing Star Wars here, but at least one thinks Nazi's did decent crowd pleasers. Do you still think it's all Disney and Lucasfilms deflecting?



This dude is all on his own. If you ever been in the cafe you would know this. His only prerogative is attacking "sjws".


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 10, 2018)

Atlas said:


> This dude is all on his own. If you ever been in the cafe you would know this. His only prerogative is attacking "sjws".



What else is there to do in the Cafe?


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## Gaiash (Jun 10, 2018)

Ok I know Kamal's arguments have been terrible but "the Nazis would have done better" has to be a new low.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 11, 2018)

This thread has now entered a phase where TLJ detractors are unironically giving praise to fascist dictators to 'stick it to those SJW libruuuuls'.

Like, @The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour, do you understand why it's so easy to blanket dismiss a large proportion of people who didn't like TLJ as having ulterior social agendas? This is why. These comments stick out. 'Fat Asian Bitch', 'SJWars', 'Cuntleen Kennedy', harassing Kelly Marie Tran on social media, etc.

It becomes undeniable that this is a a highly visible component of the anti-TLJ crowd. And you being reputably 'anti-SJW' is only helping that narrative, I'm afraid. People have legitimate criticisms of The Last Jedi and they're well and good, but they're getting lost in a sea of people like you getting outraged that Lucasfilm_ dare_ include anyone but straight white males in the franchise. 

There's a conversation to be had about TLJ's flaws and it becomes impossible to talk about it because it ends up 60% of the time boiling down to forced diversity or 'stupid purple hair bitch'. Grow the fuck up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eros (Jun 11, 2018)

Atlas said:


> This dude is all on his own. If you ever been in the cafe you would know this. His only prerogative is attacking "sjws".


All the while swearing up and down that he's neither alt-right nor white nationalist/supremacist. 

Now I admit, that TLJ was not my favorite Star Wars film. It's hard to recapture the magic of the first three films or even the prequel trilogy to begin with. Also, there have always been political overtones to Star Wars, left versus right, good versus evil. Perhaps some of you don't know much about George Lucas or his political beliefs. He's an outspoken liberal, and he always has been. Thus, if his values are reflected in his works, then don't watch the films.


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Ok I know Kamal's arguments have been terrible but "the Nazis would have done better" has to be a new low.



It is definitely one branch of the new lows.  Other guys are implying the franchise _should die _because they hate "The Last Jedi" and the new canon so much.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Ok I know Kamal's arguments have been terrible but "the Nazis would have done better" has to be a new low.


Why you  ignoring the Communist i mentioned brah?



ATastyMuffin said:


> This thread has now entered a phase where TLJ detractors are unironically giving praise to fascist dictators to 'stick it to those SJW libruuuuls'.
> 
> Like, @The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour, do you understand why it's so easy to blanket dismiss a large proportion of people who didn't like TLJ as having ulterior social agendas? This is why. These comments stick out. 'Fat Asian Bitch', 'SJWars', 'Cuntleen Kennedy', harassing Kelly Marie Tran on social media, etc.
> 
> ...



the press is gonna dismiss us no matter fucking what, no matter how we would go about it.

There is no sea, just bullshit media charrypicking.
Who banned that convesation? You can have a debate thread in the Cafe and set the parameters, or we could do it even here.

Falsely claiming racism against minorities is utter bs, anyone pushing that about SW should grow the fuck up.



Eros said:


> All the while swearing up and down that he's neither alt-right nor white nationalist/supremacist.
> 
> Now I admit, that TLJ was not my favorite Star Wars film. It's hard to recapture the magic of the first three films or even the prequel trilogy to begin with. Also, there have always been political overtones to Star Wars, left versus right, good versus evil. Perhaps some of you don't know much about George Lucas or his political beliefs. He's an outspoken liberal, and he always has been. Thus, if his values are reflected in his works, then don't watch the films.



What the fuck is the alt right. Why the flying fuck would you assume i am white nationalist/supremacist?

Hard to recapture the magic of the prequels....



Left vs right, explain that to me.

Georgie boy also wants a Philosopher King. 

And why the fuck would i expect any studio to inject partisan or economic left vs right politics into SW now that goofy Lucas sold it?


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## Gaiash (Jun 11, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Why you  ignoring the Communist i mentioned brah?


Maybe don't highlight another example of how bad your posts were.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Maybe don't highlight another example of how bad your posts were.


You intend to gripe on this forever?


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 12, 2018)

Apparently, that pack of reprobates on the "Down with Disney's Treatment of Franchises and Fanboys" Facebook page is taking credit for forcing Kelly Marie Tran off of Facebook, and are reveling in their crusade for the return of "straight white male heroes" _and _the Legends continuity (they tagged a group called "Give Us Legends").

https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...s-female-actors-daisy-ridley-kelly-marie-tran

Reactions: Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 12, 2018)

that's fucked up man; it ain't their fault the characters they're playing are complete shit 

they _need_ to be trolling KKKennedy, Rian Shitstain and w/e other fucker thought TLJ was a good idea...


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## Fang (Jun 12, 2018)

Its heavily predicated now that TLJ's BD and DVDs sales might at best only equal Rogue One despite the fact it had 14-15% more box office success then its spin-off predecessor.


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## Fang (Jun 12, 2018)

Although I'm 99% certain this is probably "Bogeya's" official tweeter account being manned by some PR intern or staffer for Disney, still fairly comfortable in saying this war with the fans is going to keep sending smoke up Disney's ass until they learn the hard way that basic custom service is "Sorry you felt bad, we hope the next one is better for you", and not "Fuck off fans".

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 12, 2018)

Lmao imagine a race war occurrng  because of mediocre Star Wars movies.


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## Glued (Jun 12, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> that's fucked up man; it ain't their fault the characters they're playing are complete shit
> 
> they _need_ to be trolling KKKennedy, Rian Shitstain and w/e other fucker thought TLJ was a good idea...



They shouldn't be trolling anyone. 

We can voice our disdain without being assholes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 12, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Lmao imagine a race war occurrng  because of mediocre Star Wars movies.


Black people have a case based on how much they are used to prop up feminism in KKverse.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 12, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> They shouldn't be trolling anyone.
> 
> We can voice our disdain without being assholes.


nah, trolling is fun 

and besides "cyber bullying" is easily remedied: 

TURN OFF THE COMPUTER YOU FUCKING NARCISSISTIC SNOWFLAKES.

or even better: stop measuring your self worth via the opinions of others...particularly when they are strangers.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 12, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Black people have a case based on how much they are used to prop up feminism in KKverse.


Don't forget Homosexuals who try to piggyback off the struggle.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 12, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> nah, trolling is fun
> 
> and besides "cyber bullying" is easily remedied:
> 
> ...


To be fair, social media is actually an important tool for the celebrities of Today. It's typically used to promote and build their brands . Opportunities can actually open for you depending on how many followers you have.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 12, 2018)

That said..I gotta post this classic tweet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 12, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> To be fair, social media is actually an important tool for the celebrities of Today. It's typically used to promote and build their brands . Opportunities can actually open for you depending on how many followers you have.


if you're a legit performer in music, acting etc. you need to hire a PR firm to handle all that social media bullshit for you.


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## Skaddix (Jun 12, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> if you're a legit performer in music, acting etc. you need to hire a PR firm to handle all that social media bullshit for you.



Eh can KMT afford that?


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 12, 2018)

Or you can just...engage with your fans yourself.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 12, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Or you can just...engage with your fans yourself.


yeah, but does this chick even have fans?


Skaddix said:


> Eh can KMT afford that?


probably not; so the smarter approach woulda been to limit access to yourself like celebrities did in the "old days".

I find it disgusting that any cretin can now actively engage with his/her betters via some shitty device.


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## dr_shadow (Jun 12, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> nah, trolling is fun
> 
> and besides "cyber bullying" is easily remedied:
> 
> ...



If you live in a developed country (+any of several developing ones) in 2018, in a lot of cases you* can't* really unplug. The internet isn't a separate plane of existence from the "real world" the way it was in the 1990's. It's so integrated with everything you do that not having a Facebook account is equally or more eccentric than not having a telephone.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 12, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> If you live in a developed country (+any of several developing ones) in 2018, in a lot of cases you* can't* really unplug. The internet isn't a separate plane of existence from the "real world" the way it was in the 1990's. It's so integrated with everything you do that not having a Facebook account is equally or more eccentric than not having a telephone.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Fang (Jun 12, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> Eh can KMT afford that?



Disney or her agency runs it for her. Same with most other actors and actresses, musicians, ect...


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## Atlas (Jun 12, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> If you live in a developed country (+any of several developing ones) in 2018, in a lot of cases you* can't* really unplug. The internet isn't a separate plane of existence from the "real world" the way it was in the 1990's. It's so integrated with everything you do that not having a Facebook account is equally or more eccentric than not having a telephone.



The Cafe is over there ---->


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 13, 2018)

Atlas said:


> The Cafe is over there ---->


Are you a moderator?


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## Glued (Jun 13, 2018)

Hmmm... Darth Maul mentioned Dathomir in Solo.

Does this mean the Nightsisters will be back?


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## Fang (Jun 13, 2018)

The fact that Disney is now doubling down on allowing the media and "journalists" like Scott "I hate white people" Mendelson now push articles claiming everything with its current failures while using a screenshot of some fucking Facebook group with 41 followers is somehow the key lynch pin to why Solo and TLJ were unsuccessful is beyond my grasp or understanding at this point. Any other company, any other corporation, even fucking EA as of the last couple months, would own up to fucking up from such a massive fan backlash and apologize for their treatment, statements, and actions at the fans.

I mean Solo lost at least 80-100+ million dollars with its flopping at the box office. You'd think Disney executives would think "maybe we out to take a step back and reexamine what's going on here with the fans?", but no.

But not Disney.

Oh no.

This is certainly going to have long term implications here. And very harsh ones at that.


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 13, 2018)

Ben Grimm said:


> Hmmm... Darth Maul mentioned Dathomir in Solo.
> 
> Does this mean the Nightsisters will be back?



I don't think so.  By the time of _Rebels_ (years after _Solo_), only their tombs and spirits were left.  It is _possible _that the plot-line set up with Qi'ra and Maul could point towards him wanting to rebuild the Nightsisters, but _Rebels_ coming first with Maul on Malachor by that time means Crimson Dawn is going to fall apart, Qi'ra will die, and Maul will end up on his own (potentially en-route to Malachor).


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## Mider T (Jun 13, 2018)

@mr_shadow why'd you stop posting here?


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## Fang (Jun 13, 2018)

>they seriously used a fucking false flag facebook group that has less than 50 followers and claimed that is what cost them all these problems


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## dr_shadow (Jun 13, 2018)

Mider T said:


> @mr_shadow why'd you stop posting here?



The movie's been out for six months, get over it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Gaiash (Jun 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> "journalists" like Scott "I hate white people" Mendelson


 
So you're saying he hates himself?


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## Fang (Jun 13, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> So you're saying he hates himself?



>white

He's a) Jewish and b) has a history of shilling for Disney. Look up his archived works to see his credibility is awful. The dude believed Disney should've attached A Wrinkle In Time with Black Panther because he thought that would save it from being a massive box office failure. The dude is an unfiltered plug piece for Disney marketing and public relations.

Also pretty sure he didn't know the guy who played young Solo is of Jewish descent himself.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> >white
> 
> He's a) Jewish and b) has a history of shilling for Disney. Look up his archived works to see his credibility is awful. The dude believed Disney should've attached A Wrinkle In Time with Black Panther because he thought that would save it from being a massive box office failure. The dude is an unfiltered plug piece for Disney marketing and public relations.
> 
> Also pretty sure he didn't know the guy who played young Solo is of Jewish descent himself.



Wait, are Jewish people no longer considered white?


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## Gaiash (Jun 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Wait, are Jewish people no longer considered white?


I guess they count as being mixed race maybe. Honestly I just did a Google search, found his Twitter profile and checked the description to confirm this was the guy Fang was on about. I don't really know anything about his statements but knowing most accusations of "hating white people" he probably just criticized someone in a way that included bringing up that they were white.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 13, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I guess they count as being mixed race maybe. Honestly I just did a Google search, found his Twitter profile and checked the description to confirm this was the guy Fang was on about. I don't really know anything about his statements but knowing most accusations of "hating white people" he probably just criticized someone in a way that included bringing up that they were white.



Probably. I'm almost expecting him to be a 'white-hater' because he complained about white washing in "Ghost in a Shell" or some shit like that.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Probably. I'm almost expecting him to be a 'white-hater' because he complained about white washing in "Ghost in a Shell" or some shit like that.


If he did he  ignored the rich history of Asian cinema and is an idiot.


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## Rax (Jun 14, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> So you're saying he hates himself?


This dude is a 100% legit joke


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## Gaiash (Jun 14, 2018)

Rax said:


> This dude is a 100% legit joke


Me or Scott Mendelson? Because if it's the latter I know nothing about him, just that claiming he "hates white people" is laughable.


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## Rax (Jun 14, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Me or Scott Mendelson? Because if it's the latter I know nothing about him, just that claiming he "hates white people" is laughable.


Scott Mendelson is a joke.

The dude wrote an article blaming the failure of Solo of "Movies starring white men might be cinema toxic"


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## dr_shadow (Jun 14, 2018)

:letgo

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mider T (Jun 14, 2018)

This thread won't die until the first trailer for the 9th movie.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Glued (Jun 14, 2018)

Well, I'm out. If this new generation loves Star Wars, more power to them.

Me, I will be going to a different galaxy in the future to serve Roboute Guilliman. I march from Macragge.


*Picks up _Warriors of Ultramar_ and begins reading*


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## Fang (Jun 14, 2018)

They aren't even trying anymore.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 4


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 14, 2018)

jesus christ, they got more bots than Star Wars has droids

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 15, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> The movie's been out for six months, get over it.


The movie gets a sequel, so that response isn't as valid as you'd like.


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## Rukia (Jun 15, 2018)

Better than the Last Jedi.  I got way more enjoyment out of that stupid ass video.​


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## Fang (Jun 15, 2018)

Lmao


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 18, 2018)

Bringing some levity to this dark universe.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Uchiha Madara (Jun 21, 2018)

So I watched TLJ again and honestly I don't get the hate. Really the worst thing about it was the flying Leia scene. Certainly not as bad as TPM or AOTC.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gaiash (Jun 21, 2018)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> So I watched TLJ again and honestly I don't get the hate. Really the worst thing about it was the flying Leia scene. Certainly not as bad as TPM or AOTC.


I don't even see why that scene is considered a problem, Leia being strong with the force was set up in the original trilogy and this was a scene of her finally using it for more than sensing people she cares about.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I don't even see why that scene is considered a problem, Leia being strong with the force was set up in the original trilogy and this was a scene of her finally using it for more than sensing people she cares about.



I think it's more to do with the visual, which is a little cheesy...and us not having seen the force used that way before, because the fandom is like that.


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## Pocalypse (Jun 21, 2018)

Nothing wrong with Leia using the force but that scene is cringe as all hell. It's awkward and poorly directed. You gotta be high to think you can pull of a scene like that with an old Carrie Fisher no less.


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## Fang (Jun 21, 2018)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> So I watched TLJ again and honestly I don't get the hate. Really the worst thing about it was the flying Leia scene. Certainly not as bad as TPM or AOTC.



Cringe.


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## Pocalypse (Jun 21, 2018)

Mark's facial expressions are priceless from 2.10 onwards


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I don't even see why that scene is considered a problem, Leia being strong with the force was set up in the original trilogy and this was a scene of her finally using it for more than sensing people she cares about.


I'd rather not even focus on the space resurrection of Chancellor-General-Queen-Master-Leia...but instead choose to ponder on how she was unscathed after the bridge was blown to pieces by torpedoes; or how she remained unharmed by the abundant shrapnel flying all around her (the same shrapnel which I'm assuming turned Akbar into a fine brown Mon-Calamari mist)....or to be honest any number of other things that happened before, during and immediately after that scene.

I guess you could say the force was with her....

But I'm chalking it up to Rian Johnson being shit; because i'd raise an eyebrow at a Potara earring Yoda/Luke fusion pulling that off on-screen.


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## Pocalypse (Jun 22, 2018)

Here's the opening

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2018)

No amount of remakes, rewriters, or reboots, will save TLJ from being garbage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2018)

Also

>Hildago calling anyone an incel when he's a beaner from Chile who looks like the overweight assistant manager at a local GameStop no one wants to work with during their shift

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zef (Jun 22, 2018)

I heard they're putting a halt on Star Wars so I'm back. 

Didn't even bother watching the Solo film. 
No one asked for it so no wonder it flopped.


Emperor Palpatine said:


> So I watched TLJ again and honestly I don't get the hate. Really the worst thing about it was the flying Leia scene. Certainly not as bad as TPM or AOTC.


You saw nothing wrong with Shrek and Finn's plotline?

Leia flying was bad, but if that's the worst thing you found in the film then I'm speechless. There were things much worse then that.


Pocalypse said:


> Here's the opening


Lol, is this real?

I kind of feel bad for RJ, but on the other hand he screwed over my fave so fuck him


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## Pocalypse (Jun 22, 2018)

Zef said:


> Lol, is this real?
> 
> I kind of feel bad for RJ, but on the other hand he screwed over my fave so fuck him



No need to feel bad for RJ lol this ain't the first twitter account asking a film to be remade and it won't be the last. Since it's related to a big franchise like the Star Wars it just happened to catch his attention and some other celebs, journalists etc

RJ screwed up a lot of shit, primarily Luke so RJ deserves the shit he gets considering he wrote and directed the damn thing

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Zef (Jun 22, 2018)

Remaking TLJ would be a horrible descision

They should just focus on making 9 the best film out of the new trilogy.
Doing a remake of 8 would be a waste of time for the actors and a waste of money for Disney


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## Suigetsu (Jun 22, 2018)

@MartialHorror  sorry, what where you saying about RJ doing his new triology? looks like the plans got scrapped. 




Zef said:


> Remaking TLJ would be a horrible descision
> 
> They should just focus on making 9 the best film out of the new trilogy.
> Doing a remake of 8 would be a waste of time for the actors and a waste of money for Disney



You know what's the best thing? THAT petition thingy is fake AF and the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) at twitter tought it was real!

Reactions: Like 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 22, 2018)

Zef said:


> Remaking TLJ would be a horrible descision
> 
> They should just focus on making 9 the best film out of the new trilogy.
> Doing a remake of 8 would be a waste of time for the actors and a waste of money for Disney


Unfortunately, JarJar Abrams doesn't have the talent to undo the sheer damage Rian "the shitshow" Johnson has done to the franchise.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 22, 2018)

hell, i doubt prime Lawrence Kasdan, Young George Lucas and the unsung female editor who did the cuts for the OT have the power to undo TLJ's disastrous impact.


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## Suigetsu (Jun 22, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> hell, i doubt prime Lawrence Kasdan, Young George Lucas and the unsung female editor who did the cuts for the OT have the power to undo TLJ's disastrous impact.


you mean george's ex-wife?

Starwars is dead my boyo.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gaiash (Jun 22, 2018)

There's nothing to undo. The Last Jedi is a great movie, easily in the top 3 Star Wars movies.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 3 | Dislike 1


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## Zef (Jun 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> There's nothing to undo. The Last Jedi is a great movie, easily in the top 3 Star Wars movies.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 22, 2018)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Suigetsu (Jun 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The Last Jedi is a great movie, easily in the top 3 Star Wars movies.


 The absolute state of bad taste.


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 22, 2018)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> So I watched TLJ again and honestly I don't get the hate. Really the worst thing about it was the flying Leia scene. Certainly not as bad as TPM or AOTC.



When it comes to fandom in general, a measure of a group's hate for something is roughly estimated by "how many of their assumptions were proven incorrect".

In "The Last Jedi", a lot of fandom theories were proven false when the film went in directions they didn't expect, and that's the sole excuse they need to go Superboy-Prime/Syndrome on the franchise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 22, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> @MartialHorror  sorry, what where you saying about RJ doing his new triology? looks like the plans got scrapped.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering when my beloved Soygetsu would return to us.

I've always said that it would be a surprise if Johnson's trilogy got made after the backlash of TLJ...and although I only skimmed through the article, does it ever explicitly mention his trilogy? The only ones I noticed namedropped were the Bobba Fett and Obi Wan spin-offs.

I'd like to see what a Johnson standalone trilogy would be like, but I'm expecting the series to go on some sort of hiatus after Episode 9...and even then, I'm still not expecting Johnson's trilogy to be made.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> When it comes to fandom in general, a measure of a group's hate for something is roughly estimated by "how many of their assumptions were proven incorrect".
> 
> In "The Last Jedi", a lot of fandom theories were proven false when the film went in directions they didn't expect, and that's the sole excuse they need to go Superboy-Prime/Syndrome on the franchise.



This is both nonsensical and utterly stupendously mind-numblingly projecting out of your ass but you are the Chuck Wendig tier of posters in this thread that defend Nu Wars and Disney in general so that's to be expected.

"You see people are just mad their theories are wrong and it has nothing to do with how horrifically terrible the film and story was."

Sasuga.


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## Gaiash (Jun 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> When it comes to fandom in general, a measure of a group's hate for something is roughly estimated by "how many of their assumptions were proven incorrect".
> 
> In "The Last Jedi", a lot of fandom theories were proven false when the film went in directions they didn't expect, and that's the sole excuse they need to go Superboy-Prime/Syndrome on the franchise.


The fan theory thing only covers some of it. The rest tends to be the fact that the movie clashes with their political views. I mean browse this thread long enough and you'll see people unironically using the term "sjw", using soy as an insult, complaining about feminism etc.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Jun 22, 2018)

>tfw if you found a penny today you made more money then the 100 million Disney lost on Solo

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Catalyst75 (Jun 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The fan theory thing only covers some of it. The rest tends to be the fact that the movie clashes with their political views.



I tried not to mention the social views the movie clashes with, though there's no denying how much that factors into certain criticisms of the film (even here).


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 22, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> When it comes to fandom in general, a measure of a group's hate for something is roughly estimated by "how many of their assumptions were proven incorrect".
> 
> In "The Last Jedi", a lot of fandom theories were proven false when the film went in directions they didn't expect, and that's the sole excuse they need to go Superboy-Prime/Syndrome on the franchise.


It just tried to toss out the light, the dark and and had gone all class war.


Gaiash said:


> The fan theory thing only covers some of it. The rest tends to be the fact that the movie clashes with their political views. I mean browse this thread long enough and you'll see people unironically using the term "sjw", using soy as an insult, complaining about feminism etc.



Why would feminism be praised in 2018?


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 23, 2018)

let's actually examine our females for a second here:

Rey is a non-character; blander than watered down skim milk, with a 5 second insultingly bad backstory. She's like an extra that was promoted because they liked her accent.

Then we have an "Admiral" (I use the term as loosely as is possible in this iteration of the universe) who wears a ball gown during the worst crisis her illegal terrorist organization "resistance" has ever faced. This..."Admiral" doesn't feel the need to express any sort of leadership skills, like say, reassuring her subordinates when they're all panicking to the point of mutiny or desertion.

Then, my favorite character of all: Gremlin-chan! The new sidekick to plot convenient space janitor-kun. Every word uttered from her mouth, every statement, has the potential to make a person dumber if they don't actually examine what she is saying, and under which circumstances she is saying them. She makes JarJar seem like a genius by comparison.

TLJ is actually an insult to feminism.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 23, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> let's actually examine our females for a second here:
> 
> Rey is a non-character; blander than watered down skim milk, with a 5 second insultingly bad backstory. She's like an extra that was promoted because they liked her accent.
> 
> ...



You're going to hate the new Jurassic World movie.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You're going to hate the new Jurassic World movie.


lemme take a wild guess here: they try to copy scenes from the original, now classic Jurassic Park, and figuratively face plant in the attempt?

or is this more of a transformers route were they just said "fuck it" _throw in everything and pray it sticks!_

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 23, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> lemme take a wild guess here: they try to copy scenes from the original, now classic Jurassic Park, and figuratively face plant in the attempt?
> 
> or is this more of a transformers route were they just said "fuck it" _through in everything and pray it sticks!_



More the latter. Actually, to its credit, it didn't rely too much on nostalgia. But there is a female character whom I imagine everyone here will hate.


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## Uchiha Madara (Jun 23, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The fan theory thing only covers some of it. The rest tends to be the fact that the movie clashes with their political views. I mean browse this thread long enough and you'll see people unironically using the term "sjw", using soy as an insult, complaining about feminism etc.



I don't really see what's so SJW about it. I guess the purple haired vice admiral (I agree with some that she should have been replaced with Ackbar but that hardly ruins the movie) if you really squint and look for SJW stuff? But maybe that's because I stay out of politics altogether, or at least try to. Partly due to the current state of both the left and right, I disagree with both on a huge number of things. I am certainly no fan of SJWs or today's feminists, but I really don't see this giant SJW conspiracy here that others do.

Black stormtrooper and female protagonist =/= SJW. People act like every character in TLJ was some pink haired tumblr feminist screeching about "toxic masculinity" and "death to all white men" or something. But maybe that's because I don't go out of my way to look for SJW crap that's probably not even there to whine about, I have better things to do.


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> More the latter. Actually, to its credit, it didn't rely too much on nostalgia. But there is a female character whom I imagine everyone here will hate.


I can't hate Bryce Dallas Howard...my penis won't allow it.


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## Fang (Jun 23, 2018)

The film is however riddled with awful and very blatantly telegraphed and transparent far left-pushing agency along with identity politics to the point its incredibly nauseating.  Universally, all the male characters on the protagonist side are emasculated for the benefit of the female ones.

I can only assume you are trolling.

>Snoke's flagship is named "Supremacy" and gets "smashed" like how male 'patriarchy' should be in the wake of the Weinstein scandals

>Poe is emasculated and humiliated/humbled multiple times by Leia and Holdo despite the fact Leia does next to nothing except one time have the narrative show Poe made a mistake forcing the bombers into attacking the First Order Dreadnought

>Holdo offers absolutely nothing, her leadership entails not giving information to her subordinates and fellow soldiers and ultimate plan is...putting their crews and fighters on severely slow moving "cloaked" (which we can fucking see their engines glowing and hulls visible in space) transports that immediately get 90% of said craft blown up by Hux's fleet before the few remnants make it to pitiful base

>So in consequence Holdo's brilliant strategy was to keep going in the dumbest and slowest space chase scene of all times in cinema history while having her escort and the rest of that ragtag fleet destroyed, then load them up on shitty transports, lose 90% of those ships, then die as she screamed "Godsneezerebels"

>Despite this, we are still told what Holdo did is "right"

>Lore-breaking bullshit left and right, about the Force, meta of the franchise, etc...

>Character assassination of Luke to a horrendous state to show he's worthless

>Character assassination of Yoda with Rian clearly not understanding anything about the OT at all

>Finn, another male character, is immediately humiliated by being turned into an almost parody of a step-and-fetch Uncle Tom character and starts the movie like a gag character whose other major early scene is being tazed like a bitch

>Casino Blight arc has some retarded and blatantly pushed politics about how wealth is bad and socialism bullshit being autistically pumped out of the mongoloid with down's syndrome's mouth

"The Last Jedi should just be called "Women Getting Shit Done" - my ass.

I can go on but TLJ is an awful film but I'm pretty sure EP is probably a Disney sock puppet.

"I have better things to do"

Lmao.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RAGING BONER (Jun 23, 2018)

Fang said:


> The film is however riddled with awful and very blatantly telegraphed and transparent far left-pushing agency along with identity politics to the point its incredibly nauseating.  Universally, all the male characters on the protagonist side are emasculated for the benefit of the female ones.
> 
> I can only assume you are trolling.
> 
> ...


you can write a Doctoral dissertation on how bad this movie truly is scene_by_scene...and your Prof may hand it back to you because it's just too fucking long.

It's not just a bad Star Wars movie...it's just a bad movie in general.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jun 23, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> I can't hate Bryce Dallas Howard...my penis won't allow it.



It's not her.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 23, 2018)

Emperor Palpatine said:


> I don't really see what's so SJW about it. I guess the purple haired vice admiral (I agree with some that she should have been replaced with Ackbar but that hardly ruins the movie) if you really squint and look for SJW stuff?


Her home planet.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jun 23, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 24, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> But there is a female character whom I imagine everyone here will hate.


erm, Zia ? or the little girl ?

why ??


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## MartialHorror (Jun 24, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> erm, Zia ? or the little girl ?
> 
> why ??



Zia. 

It just seemed like she was designed to satisfy the crowd who are often called 'SJW''s. The movie seems to even be afraid to put her in any real danger for it. Although the little girl was also pretty terrible.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 24, 2018)

both were fine

Reactions: Like 1 | Old 1


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## Fang (Jun 24, 2018)

Ugh.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 25, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> both were fine


DVD sales and box office has an issue with that.

Reactions: Old 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 25, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> DVD sales and box office has an issue with that.


what are you talking about


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## Suigetsu (Jun 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You're going to hate the new Jurassic World movie.


It was absolute turd.


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## Suigetsu (Jun 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I was wondering when my beloved Soygetsu would return to us.
> 
> I've always said that it would be a surprise if Johnson's trilogy got made after the backlash of TLJ....


Nah, you said the contrary. And RJ movies ARE spinoffs. The hack is finished.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 25, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Nah, you said the contrary. And RJ movies ARE spinoffs. The hack is finished.



lol, then find a quote, cause you're wrong.


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## Suigetsu (Jun 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, then find a quote, cause you're wrong.


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## Suigetsu (Jun 25, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> I can't hate Bryce Dallas Howard...my penis won't allow it.


She is the queen of braaaaaaaap. That loves to get preg all the time, how many kids does she have now? like 6?


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 25, 2018)

That just means she's always open for business.

Reactions: Lewd 2


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## hcheng02 (Jun 27, 2018)

Apparently the higher ups in Disney are taking notice of Kathleen Kennedy's incompetence and are aiming to replace her. Problem is that KK has made Lucasfilms such a divided shitshow that nobody is willing to take her place.


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## Zef (Jun 27, 2018)

Honestly its too late.

Keep her and Rian in for the last installment, and then hire new people for the next trilogy.

Getting rid of her now would do what exactly?
2 out of the 3 films, are already mediocre. Episode 7 - 9 have failed as a trilogy regardless of what they do with her.


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2018)

Why would they keep Rian Johnson? TFA grossed 2.2 billion and under Johnson's helm  barely squeezed in 1.3 billion. They'll be lucky if they make a billion with IX if his name is somehow attached to this.

>estimates say Solo probably cost Disney a loss of $150-200 million now at minimum

El oh el


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## hcheng02 (Jun 27, 2018)

Fang said:


> Why would they keep Rian Johnson? TFA grossed 2.2 billion and under Johnson's helm  barely squeezed in 1.3 billion. They'll be lucky if they make a billion with IX if his name is somehow attached to this.
> *
> >estimates say Solo probably cost Disney a loss of $150-200 million now at minimum*
> 
> El oh el



Where's your source?



Zef said:


> Honestly its too late.
> 
> Keep her and Rian in for the last installment, and then hire new people for the next trilogy.
> 
> ...



True, this trilogy is probably lost. Still, KK has to be kicked out before the ship can be righted.


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## Fang (Jun 27, 2018)

hcheng02 said:


> Where's your source?



The fact we know that the film was already 90-95% done with its production before Lord and Miller were fired and Howard was brought in with its entire reshooting having to be done, plus the complete rewrite of scripts, production fuck ups, change in actors, etc...? The basis of which is from TFA and R1's production and marketing numbers; Rogue One was $260 million in production and $220 million from FilmLA which has the numbers from VFX studios in US and Canada that worked on the movies given to them by said developers?

They lost a minimum of $100-$150 million bucks, low end.  Based on precedent here is the consistency in these bloated Disney Star Wars films:

>$220+ million production budget: Episode VII (TFA)
>$200+ million marketing budget: Episode VII (TFA)
>$260+ million production budget: Rogue One
>$220+ million marketing budget: Rogue One
>$240+ million production budget: Episode VIII (TLJ)
>$200+ million marketing budget: Episode VIII (TLJ)

There's a pattern here. Howard has also tweeted about doing reshoots, changes and complete revising of the script, the hired acting coach flown half way across the planet for Aiden (young Han Solo's actor), the extremely delayed marketing campaign that didn't start till about two months before the film hit the box office, etc...Even if we go with a low end of $250 million for the original Solo's film budget, you have to immediately tack on another $100-150 million to account for all those expensive reshootings, new locations, CGI and VFX effects, pyrotechnics, locale use, and so on.

We know how much the past three films cost DIsney to make, and we know Solo was a production disaster. Given how it flopped and bombed at the box office, there's no way it didn't cost Disney a net loss of at least $100-150 million bucks.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 27, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you are confused little man


At this moment i am Truth.


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## MartialHorror (Jun 27, 2018)

Zef said:


> Honestly its too late.
> 
> Keep her and Rian in for the last installment, and then hire new people for the next trilogy.
> 
> ...



Rian isn't supposed to be involved for Episode 9, isn't he? He has another trilogy in development, but whether that happens or not depends probably on whether Disney wants to stick with Kennedy.


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## hcheng02 (Jun 27, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Rian isn't supposed to be involved for Episode 9, isn't he? He has another trilogy in development, but whether that happens or not depends probably on whether Disney wants to stick with Kennedy.



JJ Abrams is back for Episode 9. The problem is that Rian Johnson has thrown a huge wrench into JJ Abrams original plan for the trilogy. Like he's killed off both Luke and Snoke as well as screwed with Rey's past. He intentionally threw out JJ Abrams original plan and replaced it with nonsense. Furthermore, the ultimate responsibility for that fatal mistake lies with Kathleen Kennedy since she was the one who approved of that decision.


I think KK fundamentally misunderstood what she needed to do regarding Star Wars. Before, she was a producer of stand alone movies under exceptional directors like Spielberg or Zemeckis. As such, she did not really have to enforce a unified vision and could just let the directors do what they want. However, with a cinematic universe / franchise she has to enforce a central vision and plot. Its more like how a TV series has to have several directors but ultimately have to follow the season story arc. She's obviously having problems getting directors to tow the line and having to either constantly replace them late into production - thus driving up production costs - or in the case of Rian Johnson allowing him completely screw over the story. Like why didn't she just let JJ Abrams have the entire trilogy so at least it had a consistent story and vision?


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## Gaiash (Jun 27, 2018)

The spin-offs worked as a Star Wars thing to watch during the years between new trilogy instalments. Once the trilogy ends they would just feel pointless. Plus considering most of their plans were "this character when they were younger" I think putting them on hold is for the best, I liked Solo but even I would get fed up of year after year of similar movies. That's also why Rogue One was the best of the spin-offs, it was a prequel but the focus was on new characters and the only thing we knew for certain was that the plans would be sent to Leia.



MartialHorror said:


> Star Wars is trapped in the past right now

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jun 28, 2018)

They did more than that. They burned the foundations.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jun 28, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> They did more than that. They burned the foundations.



Yeah, that scene always felt like a fuck you to the fans.
Let the past die, was a fourth wall comment to the fans to quit whining, imo.


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## Fang (Jun 28, 2018)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Yeah, that scene always felt like a fuck you to the fans.
> Let the past die, was a fourth wall comment to the fans to quit whining, imo.



It really doesn't help when they do that shit within a movie that shamelessly apes two films in the OT back to back because like TFA, TLJ has no identity outside of its own. It was a meta-fuck you to Star Wars fans regardless of being PT or OT ones.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pocalypse (Jun 28, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I'd rather they gave him a trilogy than continue with all of these spin-offs



Or don't give him anything at all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jun 28, 2018)

Rian Johnson needs his man crush JGL to do anything meaningful.


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## ~M~ (Jul 1, 2018)

They just re-added this to netflix and rewatching solidifies it's some of the worst shit anyone could have made with the given material

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 1, 2018)



Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## ~M~ (Jul 1, 2018)

Ye kinda like when someone shitposts to reveal the truth but the shitpost is truthier than tha truth


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## Atlas (Jul 1, 2018)

~M~ said:


> They just re-added this to netflix and rewatching solidifies it's some of the worst shit anyone could have made with the given material



They must really want people to see this movie.


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## Aeternus (Jul 1, 2018)

And I see this movie still continues to be divisive among fans.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 1, 2018)

Atlas said:


> They must really want people to see this movie.



Haven't they released them all on netflix at various points?

I remember "Rogue One" being up there seemingly forever.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 1, 2018)



Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Atlas (Jul 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Haven't they released them all on netflix at various points?
> 
> I remember "Rogue One" being up there seemingly forever.



Rogue One, yeah. I never seen TFA on there or any others. I assume that was because they want people to buy the movies they kept them off of streaming platforms but I guess not.


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## Fang (Jul 1, 2018)

They are probably hoping TLJ being on Netflix will encourage or raise its shitty BD/DVD sales which are sagging like hell right now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MartialHorror (Jul 1, 2018)

Fang said:


> They are probably hoping TLJ being on Netflix will encourage or raise its shitty BD/DVD sales which are sagging like hell right now.



Or maybe to inspire more interest in "Solo".

"Thor: Ragnarok" is currently available for streaming on netflix, despite that being a big hit, so I assume it's just to promote the Avengers movie. 

Then again, Disney must have a pretty good deal with netflix, as a lot of their stuff is continuously making the rounds. They pull down one "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie and replace it with...a worse "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie...When they finally get their own streaming service running and revoke those licenses, poor netflix is going to be gutted. 



Atlas said:


> Rogue One, yeah. I never seen TFA on there or any others. I assume that was because they want people to buy the movies they kept them off of streaming platforms but I guess not.



Apparently The Force Awakens streamed on netflix, but only in Canada. In the U.S, Disney had some deal with Starz that gave only that channel the right to air the movie...although I don't know why this didn't happen with the other ones, nor do I know how long that contract held out. They seem to only want to stream one Star Wars flick on netflix at a time, but you would think that they'd have TFA available for streaming during the build-up to "The Last Jedi", so people can refresh their memories.   

Then again...this is the same company who chose not to re-release "Tron" during the build-up to "Tron: Legacy"...


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## Aeternus (Jul 1, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> When they finally get their own streaming service running and revoke those licenses, poor netflix is going to be gutted.


Is that still happening? I remember hearing about it some time ago but nothing recently.


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## Drizzt (Jul 1, 2018)

Yeah, Disney will start their streaming service in 2020 after the contract with Netflix ends in Nov 2019.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## MartialHorror (Jul 2, 2018)

Considering Disney seemingly owns half of the industry, that's going to suck for netflix. 

Disney must have other contracts with other streaming services too. The last time I had hulu, they were airing all of their animated classics. So it will be strange. I wonder if that will put anyone or everyone under. 

Then again, hulu also licenses Full Moon Entertainment's shit, even though I heard they were doing their own streaming service too. But I suppose there is a god-like difference between Disney and the company who made the "Puppet Master" series...


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## Drizzt (Jul 2, 2018)

Disney has a major stake in Hulu aka they own the streaming service. They may use hulu as their baseline and convert it into their Disney Streaming Service. And that's just one of their 3 streaming services they have. And once the purchase of Century Fox is completed - they'll have 2/3rd ownership of the streaming service and controlling majority.


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## Aeternus (Jul 2, 2018)

Drizzt said:


> Yeah, Disney will start their streaming service in 2020 after the contract with Netflix ends in Nov 2019.


Ahh, I see.
Well, they do have a lot of stuff they can show there.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 2, 2018)

Drizzt said:


> Disney has a major stake in Hulu aka they own the streaming service. They may use hulu as their baseline and convert it into their Disney Streaming Service. And that's just one of their 3 streaming services they have. And once the purchase of Century Fox is completed - they'll have 2/3rd ownership of the streaming service and controlling majority.



Yikes. Makes me wonder why they'd even bother creating their own.


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## ~M~ (Jul 2, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Yikes. Makes me wonder why they'd even bother creating their own.


If you can't beat them, join them


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## Fang (Jul 2, 2018)

>bunch of old and new negative reviews on TLJ spouting up or being revived on Netflix's website
>suddenly "reviews" are being removed

What a COINCIDENCE


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## Drizzt (Jul 2, 2018)

@Fang - not surprising because Disney has leverage and can remove the other Disney-owned or it's subsidiaries based movies/tv shows. 

And for those that curious about what assets that Disney owns: 

@MiderT - Because it's all about Brands - and when you think Disney you think of family movie watching event. But, they could keep Hulu as it or change it like Disney's Anywhere Digital services to Movie Anywhere Digital Services. And ultimately, it is all about the money. Of course, when we look at this, it is surprising that the Justice Department and Courts are allowing Disney to purchase Century Fox because they are reaching a monopoly but I am figuring they 'haven't' by legal definition met the threshold for the AntiTrust Act and Monopoly to apply.


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## Mider T (Jul 2, 2018)

Drizzt said:


> @MiderT


Mider T not MiderT


----------



## Drizzt (Jul 3, 2018)

Ah, my apologies then, Mider T.


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 3, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Considering Disney seemingly owns half of the industry, that's going to suck for netflix.
> 
> Disney must have other contracts with other streaming services too. The last time I had hulu, they were airing all of their animated classics. So it will be strange. I wonder if that will put anyone or everyone under.
> 
> Then again, hulu also licenses Full Moon Entertainment's shit, even though I heard they were doing their own streaming service too. But I suppose there is a god-like difference between Disney and the company who made the "Puppet Master" series...


Netflix can take advantage of the fact that they have Borg SJW's leading departments.


----------



## Indra (Jul 3, 2018)

Have you guys seen this?


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 3, 2018)

Indra said:


> Have you guys seen this?


_It's more realsitic concsidering how much more man excel at war._


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 3, 2018)

it's such a deflective argument to focus on sexism/racism/whateverism when the blatantly obvious problems are a lack of vision, creativity and likable, well thought out characters that get people emotionally invested.

When Kylo Ren is your most _only_ "complex" character then your movie franchise has a serious problem.


Edit: i forgot to add my obligatory "_Rian Johnson is a shit writer_." And such things must never be forgotten.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 3, 2018)

So apparently the guy who played Jar Jar Binks contemplated suicide because of the backlash against his character, which involved harassment, death threats, etc. 

Are we going to still pretend that the prequels did not suffer that much of a backlash and/or are we still going to pretend that this fanbase can't be toxic?


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the guy who played Jar Jar Binks contemplated suicide because of the backlash against his character, which involved harassment, death threats, etc.
> 
> Are we going to still pretend that the prequels did not suffer that much of a backlash and/or are we still going to pretend that this fanbase can't be toxic?


R.A. S;lvatore almost got beat up. For it's size it's a decent fanbase. At the moment i say the primary source of toxicity is Lucasfilm.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 4, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> R.A. S;lvatore almost got beat up. For it's size it's a decent fanbase. At the moment i say the primary source of toxicity is Lucasfilm.



Isn't this the same kind of deflection that Raging Boner was complaining about? I mean, Lucasfilm has yet to make death threats towards any of the haters. They don't go on your twitter, facebook and etc to harass you.

Do we just have wildly different opinions as to what 'Toxic' is?


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Isn't this the same kind of deflection that Raging Boner was complaining about? I mean, Lucasfilm has yet to make death threats towards any of the haters. They don't go on your twitter, facebook and etc to harass you.
> 
> Do we just have wildly different opinions as to what 'Toxic' is?


Smaller group, their bs is much less of an outlier.


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## Atlas (Jul 4, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the guy who played Jar Jar Binks contemplated suicide because of the backlash against his character, which involved harassment, death threats, etc.
> 
> Are we going to still pretend that the prequels did not suffer that much of a backlash and/or are we still going to pretend that this fanbase can't be toxic?



I thought that was the kid that played Anakin that that happened to.


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 4, 2018)

Jake Lloyd (child Anakin) also suffered the same thing and he was just a kid. He is talking about Ahmed Best.



MartialHorror said:


> So apparently the guy who played Jar Jar Binks contemplated suicide because of the backlash against his character, which involved harassment, death threats, etc.
> 
> Are we going to still pretend that the prequels did not suffer that much of a backlash and/or are we still going to pretend that this fanbase can't be toxic?



Chistopher McQuarrie (Mission: Impossible director) weighted in as well.


----------



## Lord Trollbias (Jul 4, 2018)

People actually went after the guy who played Jar-Jar?
Like why? It's not like he did a terrible job at the role he was asked to play.
It'd be a way more productive venture to criticize the people in charge of producing and directing the film and creating the Jar-Jar character than attacking the guy who had to play a crappy role and probably had next to no influence on the creative process.


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## Fang (Jul 4, 2018)

Atlas said:


> I thought that was the kid that played Anakin that that happened to.



Yeah. A few crazies literally sent him death threats, and harassed him. Ron Howard and George Lucas both said they were surprised and unhappy with how some people kept attacking Jake. Though the biggest difference here is that retards like Rian and Wendig actively court people attacking them verbally because their own comments are intended as bait as the first place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jul 4, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

That army is lame as fuck. The worst of the EU has better bad guys with few exceptions.


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## Aeternus (Jul 5, 2018)

"Even if the story sucks" Does this mean Gunn admits SW sucked? lol
Anyway, what he says does make sense. People do tend to overreact.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> "Even if the story sucks" Does this mean Gunn admits SW sucked? lol
> Anyway, what he says does make sense. People do tend to overreact.


Last Jedi is selling half as much on home media. Considering this is the King of all pop culture movie brands i think the size of shitstorm is justified.


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## Aeternus (Jul 5, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Last Jedi is selling half as much on home media. Considering this is the King of all pop culture movie brands i think the size of shitstorm is justified.


Not saying that some reactions aren't justified but death threats and other stuff like this?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Not saying that some reactions aren't justified but death threats and other stuff like this?


My post does not say anything about death threats.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 5, 2018)

despite my immense displeasure at the shitfucks making these movies, i've never once been inclined to harass them IRL or on social media...
the actors even less so, since they aren't even responsible for this mess_they're just doing their job. Even poor Hamill got played by that skeevy fuck Rian Twatson.


The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Last Jedi is selling half as much on home media. *Considering this is the King of all pop culture movie brands* i think the size of shitstorm is justified.


WAS the king; the King has unfortunately been castrated by the incompetents in charge.

This is the age of the MCU.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> despite my immense displeasure at the shitfucks making these movies, i've never once been inclined to harass them IRL or on social media...
> the actors even less so, since they aren't even responsible for this mess_they're just doing their job. Even poor Hamill got played by that skeevy fuck Rian Twatson.
> 
> WAS the king; the King has unfortunately been castrated by the incompetents in charge.
> ...


Just wait, Disney also owns the MCU.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 5, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Not saying that some reactions aren't justified but death threats and other stuff like this?



This is a place filled with people who'd tell you that those things _are justified _and that anyone involved is fair game_, _which tells you a lot about their mindsets.

These are the same people who'd revel in seeing people's careers destroyed _out of spite._


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is a place filled with people who'd tell you that those things _are justified _and that anyone involved is fair game_, _which tells you a lot about their mindsets.
> 
> These are the same people who'd revel in seeing people's careers destroyed _out of spite._


Your Cafe leftist goon squad does not strike me as caring about people's caeer being destroyed over politics. 

Who here advocated death threats?


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## MartialHorror (Jul 5, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Your Cafe leftist goon squad does not strike me as caring about people's caeer being destroyed over politics.
> 
> Who here advocated death threats?



You can't play this card when nearly every post you make is somehow tied into politics.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 5, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You can't play this card when nearly every post you make is somehow tied into politics.


I rarely want people's lives to be ruined over politics so i can play it all day.


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## Fang (Jul 5, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> This is a place filled with people who'd tell you that those things _are justified _and that anyone involved is fair game_, _which tells you a lot about their mindsets.
> 
> These are the same people who'd revel in seeing people's careers destroyed _out of spite._



Hello poisoning the well, how are you this morning? Oh wait I'm replying to a poster who thought "Russians" and the "alt-right" were intentionally making dupe accounts and proxies to lower TLJ's rating on RT and IMDB and believed that a made up facebook group account which had less than thirty followers and wasn't even more than a few weeks into its existence somehow intentionally orchestrated "bullying" Tram off Instagram and twitter while clearly showing a false narrative to attack fans more. 

You are SEETHING.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 5, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> *This is a place filled with people who'd tell you that those things are justified and that anyone involved is fair game*_, _which tells you a lot about their mindsets.
> 
> These are the same people who'd revel in seeing people's careers destroyed _out of spite._





Fang said:


> Hello poisoning the well, how are you this morning? Oh wait I'm replying to a poster who thought "Russians" and the "alt-right" were intentionally making dupe accounts and proxies to lower TLJ's rating on RT and IMDB and believed that a made up facebook group account which had less than thirty followers and wasn't even more than a few weeks into its existence somehow intentionally orchestrated "bullying" Tram off Instagram and twitter while clearly showing a false narrative to attack fans more.
> 
> You are SEETHING.



Um...



Fang said:


> I saw the tweets directed at her from someone saving them and its just a bunch of people saying she was terrible in TLJ, hardly harassment. *And in any case when you are an actor or actress, you lose the general privilege of anonymity and place yourself in the spotlight for better or worse. That comes with the job.*


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## Fang (Jul 6, 2018)

>posting a quote of mine that doesn't contradict what I said

El oh fucking el


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## MartialHorror (Jul 6, 2018)

Fang said:


> >posting a quote of mine that doesn't contradict what I said
> 
> El oh fucking el



> Responding to a post that you clearly didn't read...even though you technically wrote most of it. Never thought that was a sentence I would ever have to type...

El oh fucking el


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## Fang (Jul 6, 2018)

>no rebuttal
>parroting on top of that
>ellipses as the icing to the cake of this level of autism

El oh fucking el back to ignore you go, brainlet kun.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 6, 2018)

Fang said:


> >no rebuttal
> >parroting on top of that
> >ellipses as the icing to the cake of this level of autism
> 
> El oh fucking el back to ignore you go, brainlet kun.



>Realizes he can't win, so resorts to ignoring. Rinse, wash and repeat.


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## Mider T (Jul 6, 2018)




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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


>


In any other era of pop culture history there would be changes and apologies right after looking at the TLJ Home media sales.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In any other era of pop culture history there would be changes and apologies right after looking at the TLJ Home media sales.

Reactions: Like 1


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## hcheng02 (Jul 7, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Jake Lloyd (child Anakin) also suffered the same thing and he was just a kid. He is talking about Ahmed Best.
> 
> 
> 
> Chistopher McQuarrie (Mission: Impossible director) weighted in as well.


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


>



>no mention of TLJ failing to get remotely close to TFA's BD numbers

This is on par with the shill articles that claim Solo was the "best space heist opening" at the box office and deflecting from reality that it was a colossal bomb.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> >no mention of TLJ failing to get remotely close to TFA's BD numbers


Who...cares?  TFA was overall a more popular and profitable movie.


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Who...cares?  TFA was overall a more popular and profitable movie.



Anyone with a brain cares. Then again you are the same poster who claimed TLJ would come close to TFA's box office numbers too, delicious irony.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> Anyone with a brain cares. Then again you are the same poster who claimed TLJ would come close to TFA's box office numbers too, delicious irony.


Not really?  The link wasn't comparing TLJ to TFA, nobody really gave a shit.


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Not really?



Yes really, brainlet.



> The link wasn't comparing TLJ to TFA, nobody really gave a shit.





Fang said:


> >no mention of TLJ failing to get remotely close to TFA's BD numbers
> 
> This is on par with the shill articles that claim Solo was the "best space heist opening" at the box office and deflecting from reality that it was a colossal bomb.



You are bad at this. I never said the article said that, I said its funny how the article doesn't mention it, which is why the example was given with Solo bombing and shill articles and "media news" sites making up bombastic nonsense like it being "a good opening for a x movie genre" while ignoring reality.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

So you comparing them = me comparing them? IMAGINE BEING THIS MAD


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> So you comparing them = me comparing them? IMAGINE BEING THIS MAD



I don't know whose mad given you claimed multiple times when TLJ aired it would do as well as TFA, which it failed at. You then ignored and remained pretty silent when it was revealed that TLJ's BD/DVD sales were tanking horribly compared to TFA and even failing to hit quite the same numbers as a spin-off like Rogue One, and now you are claiming "I'm mad".

You are pretty delusional, creeper kun. And not even getting into the fact your reading comprehension sucks ass.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> I don't know whose mad given you claimed multiple times when TLJ aired it would do as well as TFA, which it failed at. You then ignored and remained pretty silent when it was revealed that TLJ's BD/DVD sales were tanking horribly compared to TFA and even failing to hit quite the same numbers as a spin-off like Rogue One, and now you are claiming "I'm mad".
> 
> You are pretty delusional, creeper kun. And not even getting into the fact your reading comprehension sucks ass.


You are.  I posted a link and you brought up something else entirely, you can't :letgo


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> You are.  I posted a link



I'm not since I pointed out what the article didn't, not a hard concept to get at. How is it living in the little glass bubble of yours?


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> I'm not since I pointed out what the article didn't, not a hard concept to get at. How is it living in the little glass bubble of yours?


Whatever you say Fang


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Whatever you say Fang



Keep trying to get that last word in, creeper kun. Reality > your bullshit.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

You adding random tidbits to an article isn't pointing anything out, since that's not what the articles focus was.  So you lost.


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> You adding random tidbits to an article isn't pointing anything out, since that's not what the articles focus was.  So you lost.



Nah, me adding input is me adding input.

Stay salty.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jul 7, 2018)

I just chuckled after remembering Ghost Yoda basically saying "Silly Luke, you defeated a Sith Lord 2 years after almost poking your eye out with your own saber...fuck those books

"


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## MartialHorror (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> You adding random tidbits to an article isn't pointing anything out, since that's not what the articles focus was.  So you lost.



You're making Fang angry. You won't like Fang when he's angry...

Although he's angry all the time, so...


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You're making Fang angry. You won't like Fang when he's angry...
> 
> Although he's angry all the time, so...


Imagine his blood pressure or balding head


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Imagine his blood pressure or balding head



Imagine you're so salty you are avoiding directly responding to my posts, creeper kun.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Imagine his blood pressure or balding head



Just don't talk shit about the prequels. That really sets him off.


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

Fang said:


> Imagine you're so salty you are avoiding directly responding to my posts, creeper kun.


Like you avoided the article I posted entirely?


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Like you avoided the article I posted entirely?



But I never avoided it. Are you blind as well as senile, you old boomer?


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## Mider T (Jul 7, 2018)

So you're just unable to address it?


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## Fang (Jul 7, 2018)

Mider T said:


> So you're just unable to address it?



But I did you dumb creepy boomer.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 7, 2018)

Did Fang learn a new word or is there a context that I am missing when he calls MiderT 'boomer'? Cause I assume it means 'baby boomer', which would be a strange insult.


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

He's a pretty strange guy.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 8, 2018)

I guess this further reinforces Rey learning techniques from Ben's mind through the Force Bond.


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

>still this booty blasted


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> He's a pretty strange guy.


What does that mean on an anime forum?


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Someone isn't butthurt


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

beautiful


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

All these flavors and Fluttershit is still picks salty


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> beautiful


Yeah, your pettyness is at display.


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## Gaiash (Jul 8, 2018)

People who are still complaining about a movie from last year they didn't like calling other people salty, that's pretty funny.


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> People who are still complaining about a movie from last year they didn't like calling other people salty, that's pretty funny.



Its a two way street, kiddo.


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> What does that mean on an anime forum?


The same thing it means anywhere else.


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> The same thing it means anywhere else.



That you are super cringy?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> The same thing it means anywhere else.


No it does not.


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

Sure it does.  Do something strange here or elsewhere and I'll call you strange.  It's not complicated.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Sure it does.  Do something strange here or elsewhere and I'll call you strange.  It's not complicated.


In why is it negative strange?

Or you think it's positive strange?


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In why is it negative strange?
> 
> Or you think it's positive strange?


Stahp


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Stahp


The internet never stops baby.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 8, 2018)

All neg repping is silly.


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> All neg repping is silly.


Finally we agree on something.


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Lmao the right hand knife/blade just magically disappears for no reason for the guard.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> Lmao the right hand knife/blade just magically disappears for no reason for the guard.



It took you that long to notice?

Considering your obsession, I would've expected you to flaunt this months ago.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> All neg repping is silly.


nah, negging people is at least as good as repping them


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

I'm sure it would be except when the person has more rep power then you


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> I'm sure it would be except when the person has more rep power then you


Than*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Than*



>*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> I'm sure it would be except when the person has more rep power then you


Fangy stroking dat NF e-peen


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Fangy stroking dat NF e-peen



The fact you reacted this hard, and are this triggered proves my point entirely.


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> when will they treat your autism I wonder
> 
> surely the state could pay for the treatment





Also kind of ironic of someone whose a self-admitted furry/brony calling anyone else "autistic" while going throw fits of making mass dislike and negative post ratings every time I'm asleep at my posts (third or fourth time now last I checked), getting triggered by facts and then accusing said person of autism when constantly flaunting those symptoms yourself. 

Really activates those almonds, Weiss/Fluttershy/whatever dumb name you are going to call yourself in the next few months.


----------



## Gaiash (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> when will they treat your autism I wonder


Being autistic myself this sentence annoys me more than any of the other stupid statements I've seen in this thread. It's not even the pathetic using autism as an insult thing but the idea of "treating" it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> furry/brony


those are very different things 




Fang said:


> every time I'm asleep


so dont go to sleep  and you won't have to be so afraid of big bad Weiss downrating your posts  since it clearly bothers you




Fang said:


> by facts


 even @Mider T > you as far as facts are concerned .. and Mider is the guy that tried to argue handegg > football


----------



## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> those are very different things



Not to normal people they aren't. But if you want to delude yourself with that rational all the power to you, Fluttershy kun. Anyone sees a brony and thinks your kind is just as cringe inducing as the average yiffing scum. 


> so dont go to sleep  and you won't have to be so afraid of big bad Weiss downrating your posts  since it clearly bothers you



Afraid of what? You showing off your autism or the fact you are butthurt and keep repeating actions that validate what I say over and over again? I'm not the one perpetually booty blasted over it, you are. I just screencap that shit to post off how sad you are and how funny it is to me, its like a badge of your try hard nature that won't ever go away. This is why you got laughed out of the OBD. 



> *blub blub blub*



Don't think so, tim. You and him are on the same wave length ironically.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> OBD


 12+ years and you still _love_ waddling in that puddle of shit  well, have "fun" with that 




Fang said:


> I just screencap that shit to post off how sad you are and how funny it is to me


Kappa


----------



## ~Gesy~ (Jul 8, 2018)

Flutter is seriously rating every Fang post!


----------



## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

That's pretty much the proof of him being ass-pained as fuck since his ass is so toasty he can't walk away from verbal beat down he's getting.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Flutter is seriously rating *every* Fang post!


just the ~last ones in the ~1-2 SW threads


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Just keep proving your butthurt more, furry-kun.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

@Fang when is the next screenshot of your ratings scheduled for ?


----------



## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Didn't you defend pedo apologists like Zangetto and Yokai, Fluttershy koon? You remember what happened to Yokai right?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

Fang said:


> Didn't you defend pedo apologists like Zangetto and Yokai


you are probably mistaking me for yourself or one of your OBD pals


----------



## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you are probably mistaking me for yourself or one of your OBD pals



Nope. 

I mean that would make no sense since we got Yokai perm banned  from NF for good and Zangetto perm section banned but you make up things to deflect from reality.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 8, 2018)

Jesus, is this what "The Last Jedi" thread has been reduced too?

Maybe that's what Star Wars has been reduced too...Furries and pedos.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Jul 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Jesus, is this what "The Last Jedi" thread has been reduced too?
> 
> Maybe that's what Star Wars has been reduced too...Furries and pedos.


Star Wars fanatics are the worse.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jul 8, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Star Wars fanatics are the worse.



Nah.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Jesus, is this what "The Last Jedi" thread has been reduced too?
> 
> Maybe that's what Star Wars has been reduced too...Furries and pedos.


There are furries and pedos who would not fuck up as bad as KK did.



Mider T said:


> Star Wars fanatics are the worse.



nope.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jul 9, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Star Wars fanatics are the worse.


Worst *


----------



## Pocalypse (Jul 9, 2018)

@Shiba D. Inu 

what did you like about this film btw, just wondering. Simply because it's a Disney film?


----------



## Suigetsu (Jul 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Furries and pedos.


Dude you are in NF, what did you honestly expected?


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 9, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> @Shiba D. Inu
> 
> what did you like about this film btw, just wondering. *Simply because it's a Disney film*?


thats enough for me tbh 

but mostly I liked that it surprised me in some parts, unlike TFAs "ANH copy-paste"

also Luke-Rey interactions .. and Lukes send-off was fine

I also didnt mind Snoke getting backstabbed





also Reylo is hot and they must fuck soon


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## ~M~ (Jul 9, 2018)

I don't even understand what you guys are actually arguing about besides intentionally attacking the ego of one another


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 9, 2018)

every shitpost brings me closer to 100 000


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## Fang (Jul 9, 2018)

Its Fluttershy koon try to save face from getting btfo'd repeatedly.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 9, 2018)

Fang said:


> Its Fluttershy koon try to save face from getting btfo'd repeatedly.


*old*


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## Fang (Jul 9, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> *old*



Sure thing, buttercup.


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## Pocalypse (Jul 9, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> thats enough for me tbh
> 
> but mostly I liked that it surprised me in some parts, unlike TFAs "ANH copy-paste"
> 
> ...



So you're a fan of character assassinations, undeveloped villains and toxic relationships


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 9, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> undeveloped villains


Snoke was undeveloped, but it doesnt matter .. Emperor barely had screen time in the OT too, especially in eps 4 & 5

_Kylo_ was/is the real villain and he is plenty developed 




Pocalypse said:


> toxic relationships


she can change him (  )






Pocalypse said:


> character assassinations


nah


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## Suigetsu (Jul 10, 2018)

the fuck are you talking about? Snoke had an entire series about his character development. It's called jersey shore or something.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 10, 2018)

Holy shit, Rian Johnson is actually blaming Gamergate for the backlash against his film.


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## Gaiash (Jul 10, 2018)

hcheng02 said:


> Holy shit, Rian Johnson is actually blaming Gamergate for the backlash against his film.


Except he isn't. The point being made is a lot of the same people are involved in these hate campains and those that weren't are still using the same methods. This is true, heck earlier in this thread when the discussion shifted to Ghostbusters I shared a video about Gamergate because its points were relevant to the discussion.


Gaiash said:


> This video is about Gamergate but I think it's points are relevant to this discussion



Rian Johnson doesn't even mention his film, heck even Bryan Young's post covers the backlash to other Star Wars content like Force Awakens.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 10, 2018)

Star Wars fans make DCEU fans look positively angelic and rational.


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## Kuromaku (Jul 10, 2018)

I'm guessing that it's safe to say that RJ has officially lost his mind. Interacting like fans is idiotic enough, especially on the Internet, to say nothing of the shithole that is Twitter.

And while I had little interest in Gamergate when it was happening, and still have little interest in the thing, I can't help but wonder if maybe the alleged gaters won. People are still bringing it up unprovoked, almost as if it's an open wound. Something is up. And maybe I'd care if it didn't look like a shitfest between two different groups of idiots, both of whom make inane and biased videos to demonize the other side.

But back to SW. I thought that TLJ was uneven, and that watching it a second time made the movie's shortcomings even more noticeable to me. I think that the whole politics thing distracts from the fact that the movie was questionably written, and that RJ visibly failed to write either an engaging sequel that would bridge the two bookends of the trilogy or a standalone film that would stand the test of time. Even worse, the movie itself tried to rise above SW being lowbrow (and I don't mean this as an insult in the slightest), but turned it into something resembling middlebrow (this, however, is an insult) mediocrity.*

The fandom is terrible however, but we've known that for decades.


*For the record, lowbrow and highbrow are merely descriptors. Good lowbrow media appeals to the heart, while good highbrow media appeals to the head. Middlebrow junk wants to rise above the lowbrow, but falls short of the highbrow because it wants to have its cake and eat it too, leading to mediocrity that fails to engage either the heart or head. If you want to call something pretentious, check to see if it could be called middlebrow.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 11, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> every shitpost brings me closer to 100 000


You care about that? WTF is wrong with you?


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## Suigetsu (Jul 11, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> every shitpost brings me closer to 100 000


you and I know you cheated on those little mutt.


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## Fang (Jul 11, 2018)

Lmao what does Ghostbuster have to do with this

Ghostbusters was a colossal mega failure at the box office, the fans hated it, and Gamergate had nothing to do with it, it was just an earlier foreshadowing of disconnect between film critics and fans


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## Gaiash (Jul 12, 2018)

Fang said:


> Lmao what does Ghostbuster have to do with this


It was just the thing being discussed at the time I posted that video.



Fang said:


> Gamergate had nothing to do with it


I posted the video because points in it that were made about Gamergate also applied to the people making a huge fuss about the new Ghostbusters. Mainly the fact that there were two different mindsets that deflected criticism from each other.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It took you that long to notice?
> 
> Considering your obsession, I would've expected you to flaunt this months ago.


Surprising coming from you, since you seem to have shilled this movie as if it where the most awesome thing ever.


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## hcheng02 (Jul 12, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> It was just the thing being discussed at the time I posted that video.
> 
> 
> I posted the video because points in it that were made about Gamergate also applied to the people making a huge fuss about the new Ghostbusters. Mainly the fact that there were two different mindsets that deflected criticism from each other.





Fang said:


> Lmao what does Ghostbuster have to do with this
> 
> Ghostbusters was a colossal mega failure at the box office, the fans hated it, and Gamergate had nothing to do with it, it was just an earlier foreshadowing of disconnect between film critics and fans



The only real connection is that there is an analogous media reaction towards criticism from the general fandom and public, which is to close ranks and deflect any and all criticism - no matter how legitimate - as merely racism or sexism. This in turn fueled a huge backlash from the fandom who had plenty of legitimate criticism against the media narrative and did not appreciate being demonized for their opinions. Said fandom then responded with boycotts that eventually led to financial penalties against the people who demonized them. More often than not, the fandom comes out on top since money talks.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 12, 2018)

hcheng02 said:


> The only real connection is that there is an analogous media reaction towards criticism from the general fandom and public, which is to close ranks and deflect any and all criticism - no matter how legitimate - as merely racism or sexism. This in turn fueled a huge backlash from the fandom who had plenty of legitimate criticism against the media narrative and did not appreciate being demonized for their opinions. Said fandom then responded with boycotts that eventually led to financial penalties against the people who demonized them. More often than not, the fandom comes out on top since money talks.



It's a double edged sword because "Ghostbusters" looked like garbage from the release of the first teaser, but people did express this by resorting to racism and sexism. I remember seeing some of the tweets leveled at that black actress and they were pretty extreme. But yes, the studio/filmmakers then use it as an excuse for the backlash and lump all criticisms and complaints in with the racist and sexist ones, which is too transparent to the fandom...

The fandom will win out, but I do wonder if there will be any long term repercussions for them. A lot of members of this 'fandom' come across as mean spirited and as toxic as those they insist the studio is unfairly painting them as. I myself think Star Wars should simply die simply because of the hate it seems to inspire from people. Someone will eventually get killed over this kind of shit. 



Suigetsu said:


> Surprising coming from you, since you seem to have shilled this movie as if it where the most awesome thing ever.



I didn't 'shill' it that hard. I simply responded to a lot of assholes who don't understand film criticism and made the film seem much worse than it is for a variety of reasons, ranging from politics to whining because they didn't like the direction of certain characters. If me treating them like douchebags or children makes it seem like I'm 'shilling' a movie, then take that as you will. You seem to either overlook or ignore that I do often criticize TLJ, Kennedy or other Star Wars movies. It's always silly to give into blind hatred or blind worship of any product. Just as I acknowledge that the original trilogy has flaws, the prequel trilogy has some strengths, I believe the new series has good and bad. I only often debate in favor of these movies because most of the vitriol comes from the haters. If Fang was a fan, I would still probably debate him just as often. if Kamal was a fan, I would still be appalled by his absurd topics. If you were a fan, our interactions wouldn't be any different.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pocalypse (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I myself think Star Wars should simply die simply because of the hate it seems to inspire from people.



Make good films and it won't get the hate then.

Listen, I know TFA was a rehash but it at least set up something new for the future so you can give that film a pass to a certain extent. It's the first entry to the franchise after years. It wasn't unique but people felt nostalgic again. But TLJ is atrocious. It destroyed everything old and new for "muh shock value", just so Rian can stick it to the fans and go "HA! I'm smarter than you! Bet you didn't think of that!"


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## MartialHorror (Jul 12, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> Make good films and it won't get the hate then.
> 
> Listen, I know TFA was a rehash but it at least set up something new for the future so you can give that film a pass to a certain extent. It's the first entry to the franchise after years. But TLJ is atrocious. It destroyed everything old and new.



I would say that fandom kept their sanity during the scourge of the prequels, but then I remembered that...they didn't. They threatened the cast enough to nearly drive one to suicide and another into hating Star Wars. Part of the reason Lucas sold the property to Disney was because of the vitriol he had received, so this isn't anything new.

You will never get what you want. There will never be another universally loved Star Wars film again, regardless of who owns it. Either way, "The Last Jedi" could be the worst f@cking movie of all time and it still wouldn't be worth the death threats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## hcheng02 (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It's a double edged sword because "Ghostbusters" looked like garbage from the release of the first teaser, but people did express this by resorting to racism and sexism. I remember seeing some of the tweets leveled at that black actress and they were pretty extreme. But yes, the studio/filmmakers then use it as an excuse for the backlash and lump all criticisms and complaints in with the racist and sexist ones, which is too transparent to the fandom...
> 
> The fandom will win out, but I do wonder if there will be any long term repercussions for them. A lot of members of this 'fandom' come across as mean spirited and as toxic as those they insist the studio is unfairly painting them as. I myself think Star Wars should simply die simply because of the hate it seems to inspire from people. Someone will eventually get killed over this kind of shit.



I'm not sure what kind of long term repercussions you have in mind. What do you mean that Star Wars should simply die?


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## Pocalypse (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I would say that fandom kept their sanity during the scourge of the prequels, but then I remembered that...they didn't. They threatened the cast enough to nearly drive one to suicide and another into hating Star Wars. Part of the reason Lucas sold the property to Disney was because of the vitriol he had received, so this isn't anything new.
> 
> You will never get what you want. There will never be another universally loved Star Wars film again, regardless of who owns it. Either way, "The Last Jedi" could be the worst f@cking movie of all time and it still wouldn't be worth a single death threat.



Never said it warranted any death threats. But you should know those idiotic people don't represent the entire SW fanbase. The Force Awakens and Rogue One was generally loved by the majority of its viewers when it came out, those films never received the same amount of hate or even a whiff of it as Rian's film so saying there will never be a universally loved SW film is wrong.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I didn't 'shill' it that hard. I simply responded to a lot of assholes who don't understand film criticism and made the film seem much worse than it is for a variety of reasons, ranging from politics to whining because they didn't like the direction of certain characters. If me treating them like douchebags or children makes it seem like I'm 'shilling' a movie, then take that as you will. You seem to either overlook or ignore that I do often criticize TLJ, Kennedy or other Star Wars movies. It's always silly to give into blind hatred or blind worship of any product. Just as I acknowledge that the original trilogy has flaws, the prequel trilogy has some strengths, I believe the new series has good and bad. I only often debate in favor of these movies because most of the vitriol comes from the haters. If Fang was a fan, I would still probably debate him just as often. if Kamal was a fan, I would still be appalled by his absurd topics. If you were a fan, our interactions wouldn't be any different.



Audience lost respect for critics some time ago, when they keep shilling and insulting the public's opinion. Since they try to enforce the political views of the studios or their zionist agenda and wathever.
Case and point Mendelson preparing his mental cope for ep9 floping, saying that Jumanji 3 and sonic the hedgehog are tough competition...

How the fuck do you expect people to respect that kind of shiet opinion?


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## MartialHorror (Jul 12, 2018)

hcheng02 said:


> I'm not sure what kind of long term repercussions you have in mind. What do you mean that Star Wars should simply die?



Not sure I can respond to this without rambling, but it's partially political. At least in the U.S, we're undergoing an upheavel where both parties are practically at war with each-other. It's no longer just differing opinions on politics, as your thoughts on immigration (for example) will inspire moral outrage from one side or another. Now this can go one way or the other and honestly, it's kind of hard to tell where the pendulum will swing right now. I can't deny that Kennedy has her convictions and she did use Star Wars as a platform to express said convictions, so it's natural that the other side will rise up to tear her opinions down...as it's the only platform they have. 

But now you have guys like Suigetsu and Fang digging even deeper into that, calling people 'Soy Boys' and 'Cucks', terms usually associated with the alt-right, who most would argue are the toxic element of the right. So when people see that, they associate them with the alt-right, who are often accused of being racist, etc, so it's very easy to lump everyone together. I have to imagine that this fandom does not seem healthy from an outsiders perspective. It would not surprise me if the rest of the world simply thinks that the Star Wars fandom is like this, especially as the noisier ones will always get the most attention. Now this is all conjecture and hopefully, I am wrong. 

As for Star Wars needing to die, I think it needs to go away because the hatred it's inspiring out of people is not worth it. Star Wars fans act as if a beloved classic has never spawned a bad sequel or a franchise has never fallen or childhoods can't be tainted. I grew up with "Jaws", "Jurassic Park" and "Tremors" and at least some of those have experienced far worse lows than Star Wars ever has. I mean, for a time, "Jaws"- a classic that helped shape the Summer blockbuster- became known as the movie that spawned shitty sequels...and did you ever hear about death threats in response to that? I mean, have you seen "Jaws: The Revenge"? They take a f@cking toy, put it in a bathtub, blew it up and called that a finale for a SEQUEL TO "JAWS". If Jaws fans can endure that, you can endure "The Last Jedi".  



hcheng02 said:


> Any fanbase when it gets large enough gets a large number of toxic fans simply due to sheer numbers and statistics. Star Wars isn't unique about that. Look at My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or Steven Universe, there have been incidences where toxic fans have harassed people too. You don't hear about it though, because the media outlets don't have a narrative to spin and don't have as big a chip on their shoulder against female targeted fandoms.
> 
> Also, Social Justice Warrior = Moral Guardian. People use those terms as an insult because they are meant to be an insult. Star Wars don't need SJW input today anymore than rappers needed Parent Council input during the 1990s. Self righteous censors don't help art and don't bring in money, and the general public is waking up to that fact which scares SJWs to no end.
> 
> Also, "The Force Awakens" isn't the only movie that has been affected by this ripple effect. Its the same thing with "The Amazing Spiderman." When the first movie in that series came out, it was actually pretty well received by audiences and critics especially for its portrayal of Gwen Stacy. It was only after the "The Amazing Spiderman 2" that people started badmouthing it. You just don't hear about it because you don't have a media cabal shoving that narrative down the public's throat like what is happening now with Star Wars.



Yes, the size of the fandom does matter. "My Little Pony" is an...odd case...though, where it ended up attracting an audience that was much older than the intended fandom. I don't know anything about "Stephen Universe. "Amazing Spider-Man" is a weak example because I don't think anyone really cared about either films. Yeah, the first one was pretty good, but it wasn't really a big deal upon release, whereas the sequel was in that it killed the series. One could actually argue that "Spiderman 3" did the most damage to that franchise. 

Most people who say 'SJW' don't know what it means, even if you do. The first guy I encountered in this forum attacked Holdo for having "SJW hair" and I still don't know what the f@ck that means. People have thrown the term at fans simply for liking "The Last Jedi", without any mention of 'morals' or 'politics'. Or they will hide behind the term when being called out for being an asshole. They also often don't realize that they're pushing their own agendas, not being that much different than the 'SJW''s they hate. Half of the time, I don't even think they believe the nonsense that they spew out. It just makes them look better in their circles.  



Suigetsu said:


> Audience lost respect for critics some time ago, when they keep shilling and insulting the public's opinion. Since they try to enforce the political views of the studios or their zionist agenda and wathever.
> Case and point Mendelson preparing his mental cope for ep9 floping, saying that Jumanji 3 and sonic the hedgehog are tough competition...
> 
> How the fuck do you expect people to respect that kind of shiet opinion?



You kind of lost me with "Zionist Agenda".


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## Gaiash (Jul 12, 2018)

hcheng02 said:


> The only real connection is that there is an analogous media reaction towards criticism from the general fandom and public, which is to close ranks and deflect any and all criticism - no matter how legitimate - as merely racism or sexism.


In trying to argue against my point you instead become an example of the exact point I was linking to the video about. But since you're all refusing to watch it here's a quote



> So what did these two groups want? What did they achieve? And what did they have to gain from allying with each other? Well on the face of it that last question is pretty basic, they deflected criticism for each other. Criticize a member of the first group for harassment and he'd disappear into the crowd of the second saying "we're a legitimate movement. I'm not harassing anyone, I'm just here to talk about ethics" and the second group would believe and defend him. Criticize a member of the second group for his arguments and he'd say "you just won't take me seriously because you think I'm one of them"


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## Suigetsu (Jul 12, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> You kind of lost me with "Zionist Agenda".


You are pretty clueless or you are just playing dumb. It's an example.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 12, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> Well they're somewhat right. When you're on social media you leave yourself open. You have to be prepared to take the criticism. Not everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows. It's a platform for people to say positive and negative things, in an age where you can have your say. It's hard to find the abuse posts Rose was getting but the ones I found they were primarily aimed at her character and how pointless her arc was. I don't see anything wrong with that. There were lots of positive posts about her too but it's funny how those are left out by the media and only the negative ones are highlighted, it works both ways and for her she let the negativity affect her.
> 
> Being a celebrity doesn't give them any special privileges on social media. We don't have to worship them. They're just like anyone else.



Harassment and criticism are not the same thing...Don't make excuses for poor behavior...or if you want to do that, don't take issue with me thinking this fandom sucks. This is exactly what I mean when I say 'downplay, deflect or ignore'. I don't really see how harassment is any more justified if the person is famous. As you say, they don't get special privileges...but isn't harassment always bad? 

Also, give me a link to the copies of the Instagram posts, because it sounds like you're just repeating what Fang said in the past and he has a history of filtering out anything that doesn't serve his narrative.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 12, 2018)

harassment hurts muh feels and i can't take it!_ 

wri/sts_

don't want to be harassed? don't ever, _ever_, use the internet. Ever. For anything. You will get trolled at some point by someone. Always. Nobody is safe.

feeling cyber bullied? how about you step away from the computer? or don't depend on others for self validation.

I won't ever feel bad for no-name actors (or anybody really) who calls attention to themselves on *-Social-* fucking media.

Here's a tip: get a PR firm to handle your online attention whoring.

Reactions: Like 3


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 12, 2018)

pfft and besides; Gremlin-chan is so damn forgettable that she will be forgotten before i finish this


it's often far worse to be obsessively loved by a fandom than "mildly irritable" to them.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 12, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> pfft and besides; Gremlin-chan is so damn forgettable that she will be forgotten before i finish this
> 
> 
> it's often far worse to be obsessively loved by a fandom than "mildly irritable" to them.



According to Fang, she's more hated than Jar Jar. Even I would argue that 'mildly irritable' is being generous, as Rose seems to be at the center of the backlash...and people on the internet are simply too stupid to be able to dissociate the character from the actor.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Jul 12, 2018)

lol this movie's shittiness is still being discussed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rukia (Jul 13, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> lol this movie's shittiness is still being discussed


It was the worst movie of 2017.  But it only recently came out on blu ray and on Netflix.  So I think it’s definitely fair game.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

Stop living in a glass house. Unless the negative attention goes into actual physical territory or develops into stalking or life threatening, getting shitted on by people is something actors, actresses, directors, and writers have been living with in Hollywood for almost a century now. That is part of the culture of being a celebrity. Deal with it.

"Oh no, someone said something mean about my character in a movie, the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars I have shoved up my ass is not going to soothe the acting pain in my rectum from a few bad words some faceless and nameless fucker on twitter said about me."


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## Suigetsu (Jul 13, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> lol this movie's shittiness is still being discussed


people are more interested on the scandal and gossip that this entire shit show has caused than on the content of the movies themselves. Disney fucked up, they should have never bought starwars.

But also the hardcore nerdfag SW fans ruined it, by being complete retards rather than doing smart criticism that just kept shitting on Lucas. In a sense Lucas really had his revenge at the cost of his own baby but such is revenge.




MartialHorror said:


> I would say that fandom kept their sanity during the scourge of the prequels, but then I remembered that...they didn't


You where one of those people.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 13, 2018)

SW fanbase is absolutely the worst one


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## Pocalypse (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Harassment and criticism are not the same thing...Don't make excuses for poor behavior...or if you want to do that, don't take issue with me thinking this fandom sucks. This is exactly what I mean when I say 'downplay, deflect or ignore'. I don't really see how harassment is any more justified if the person is famous. As you say, they don't get special privileges...but isn't harassment always bad?
> 
> Also, give me a link to the copies of the Instagram posts, because it sounds like you're just repeating what Fang said in the past and he has a history of filtering out anything that doesn't serve his narrative.



She shouldn't be on social media then if she can't take the heat. She played a shit character and got shit for it. That's what you're going to get and let's not act like this is just a recent occurence. Your problem is you paint the whole fandom because of some shit said by a few dickheads. You do know she also got positive messages on her Instagram or whatever it was she deleted, right? Why doesn't the media focus on that instead of just going for the negative ones? There's literally pics of this shit or whatever was salvaged on Google images / articles (depending on the author and their narrative).

Not our fault she didn't rise above it. As Boner said, this is *social *media.


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## Mickey Mouse (Jul 13, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> Not our fault she didn't rise above it. As Boner said, this is *social *media.



How terrible society has become....


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> She shouldn't be on social media then if she can't take the heat. She played a shit character and got shit for it. That's what you're going to get and let's not act like this is just a recent occurence. Your problem is you paint the whole fandom because of some shit said by a few dickheads. You do know she also got positive messages on her Instagram or whatever it was she deleted, right? Why doesn't the media focus on that instead of just going for the negative ones? There's literally pics of this shit or whatever was salvaged on Google images / articles (depending on the author and their narrative).
> 
> Not our fault she didn't rise above it. As Boner said, this is *social *media.



I feel like I pretty much responded to this with RB's post.

If you want to make excuses for bad behavior, then fine. Just don't take issue when I continue to piss on the fanbase for it.

There are apparently like 2 screengrabs that have been saved (at least from what I can find) and you think that's all it entailed? Amusingly, when I typed into google images, that one crazy facebook group tried to take responsibility for it.



Suigetsu said:


> You where one of those people.



Because I disliked the prequels? I never harassed anybody over them or shat on somebody simply for liking them...unless they were Fang and that was less to do with him liking the prequels and more to do with him being an elitist douche and he gets pissy if you talk shit about them (which was funny; as he had recently said he was 'always calm'). I never went on any crusade against them, nor did I adopt any terminologies from a reviled political movement just to piss off the other side. I simply thought they sucked and moved on with my life. 

Maybe I would've been an asshole had the internet been around/a household commodity when the prequels had been released, but I also would've been like 11 years old...If I behaved like a child, it's because I would've been one.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 13, 2018)

Superman said:


> How terrible society has become....


It's better than  ever. Relax.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It's better than  ever. Relax.



No it is not.

Then again, I don't believe there is ever a time that's 'better than ever'. Every generation has its skeletons in the closet. We improve one area and deteriorates in others. But that's just my perspective. 

If I seem kind of touchy on all of this harassment stuff, it's because I have actually been stalked and harassed over the internet. Twice. The more harmless of these two was when I...gave a negative review of "Speed Racer". That was just people flooding my inbox with hate mail. I didn't get any death threats, but some did threaten to 'find me and kick my ass'. I didn't mind so much at the time and honestly...I still don't. It amuses me more than anything else, although I had to get a new email address over it. The 2nd time I got harassed on the web was a lot uglier.

Obviously if I never got on the web, I never would've had to deal with it. But that's like saying if you never went to the playground, a bully would never take your lunch money. The person in the wrong will always be the one bullying, harassing, etc. This is why the Star Wars fanbase sucks. They seem to think it's OK and make excuses for it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> Stop living in a glass house. Unless the negative attention goes into actual physical territory or develops into stalking or life threatening, getting shitted on by people is something actors, actresses, directors, and writers have been living with in Hollywood for almost a century now. That is part of the culture of being a celebrity. Deal with it.
> 
> "Oh no, someone said something mean about my character in a movie, the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars I have shoved up my ass is not going to soothe the acting pain in my rectum from a few bad words some faceless and nameless fucker on twitter said about me."



This is the absolute worst take. "It's always been this bad, so you should just accept the status quo!" What an utterly childish and privileged worldview to have; coupled with your frequent usage of gay slurs, your opinion now has zero credibility on anything whatsoever outside of who wins in vs. matchups or whatever. Are you the kind of idiot who agrees with Tyler The Creator that 'cyberbullying isn't real'? Get some perspective and venture outside your basement.

Harassment is not okay. Harassment over _fucking movies_ is pathetic. Instead of victim-blaming, why aren't we admonishing the dickless trolls spamming Kelly Marie Tran's accounts? Why aren't we holding them accountable for hissy fits and hate brigades over _children's movie_s?

Is it Jake Lloyd's fault for his life and career collapsing after he was spammed en masse by these same terrible fans and driven to depression? Should he just have 'dealt with it'?

You're a fucking dipshit.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> This is the absolute worst take. "It's always been this bad, so you should just accept the status quo!" What an utterly childish and privileged worldview to have; coupled with your frequent usage of gay slurs, your opinion now has zero credibility on anything whatsoever outside of who wins in vs. matchups or whatever. Are you the kind of idiot who agrees with Tyler The Creator that 'cyberbullying isn't real'? Get some perspective and venture outside your basement.
> 
> Harassment is not okay. Harassment over _fucking movies_ is pathetic. Instead of victim-blaming, why aren't we admonishing the dickless trolls spamming Kelly Marie Tran's accounts? Why aren't we holding them accountable for hissy fits and hate brigades over _children's movie_s?
> 
> ...



It baffles me that the other haters here seem to look up to him. Even the opinionated, normally ballsy Kamal folded the moment Fang turned his spiteful gaze on him for two seconds. He always talks about how people filter out facts that don't serve their narrative, even though he himself is guilty of this all the time. He grew angry when I insinuated his politics based on his posts, but not long ago, he went on a "Soy boy" and "Cuck" laden rant.  

He will simply take whatever side that opposes Disney, regardless of how stupid or vile it is. I would not be surprised if he's a member of that "Down with Disney" facebook group.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Jul 13, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It's better than  ever. Relax.


----------



## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> It baffles me that the other haters here seem to look up to him. Even the opinionated, normally ballsy Kamal folded the moment Fang turned his spiteful gaze on him for two seconds. He always talks about how people filter out facts that don't serve their narrative, even though he himself is guilty of this all the time. He grew angry when I insinuated his politics based on his posts, but not long ago, he went on a "Soy boy" and "Cuck" laden rant.
> 
> He will simply take whatever side that opposes Disney, regardless of how stupid or vile it is. I would not be surprised if he's a member of that "Down with Disney" facebook group.



Fang is the one who said Rose's inclusion in TLJ was 'China-pandering' or whatever, right?

Imagine living such a sheltered life that casting anyone but white males is immediately seen by you as _pandering_. Like the real world doesn't exist and there aren't billions of Indians and Asians out there.


----------



## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> No it is not.
> 
> Then again, I don't believe there is ever a time that's 'better than ever'. Every generation has its skeletons in the closet. We improve one area and deteriorates in others. But that's just my perspective.
> 
> ...


Look at a longer span of history.





ATastyMuffin said:


> This is the absolute worst take. "It's always been this bad, so you should just accept the status quo!" What an utterly childish and privileged worldview to have; coupled with your frequent usage of gay slurs, your opinion now has zero credibility on anything whatsoever outside of who wins in vs. matchups or whatever. Are you the kind of idiot who agrees with Tyler The Creator that 'cyberbullying isn't real'? Get some perspective and venture outside your basement.
> 
> Harassment is not okay. Harassment over _fucking movies_ is pathetic. Instead of victim-blaming, why aren't we admonishing the dickless trolls spamming Kelly Marie Tran's accounts? Why aren't we holding them accountable for hissy fits and hate brigades over _children's movie_s?
> 
> ...



All ages movies.




Superman said:


>



It still is.


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Fang is the one who said Rose's inclusion in TLJ was 'China-pandering' or whatever, right?
> 
> Imagine living such a sheltered life that casting anyone but white males is immediately seen by you as _pandering_. Like the real world doesn't exist and there aren't billions of Indians and Asians out there.



Which is a pretty f@cking stupid sentiment anyway as the actress isn't Chinese...or even of Chinese descent...Do you think Fang knows this? 

If they really wanted to pander to Chinese audiences, they'd cast Chinese actors...something Disney has done many times before...including in other Star Wars movies...


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

Pocalypse said:


> She shouldn't be on social media then if she can't take the heat. She played a shit character and got shit for it. That's what you're going to get and let's not act like this is just a recent occurence. Your problem is you paint the whole fandom because of some shit said by a few dickheads. You do know she also got positive messages on her Instagram or whatever it was she deleted, right? Why doesn't the media focus on that instead of just going for the negative ones? There's literally pics of this shit or whatever was salvaged on Google images / articles (depending on the author and their narrative).
> 
> Not our fault she didn't rise above it. As Boner said, this is *social *media.



Still find it odd how perfectly "coincidental" the timing for the Tram "harassment" just happened in the middle of everything when everyone, from fans to every critic and media/entertainment group and what not were pointing out how terrible Solo was flopping at the box office and this just happened to prop up in the news across social media platforms. Disney viral marketing is notoriously good at trying to play damage control but I think at this point plus the archived saved images and screenshots of what went on with Tram's Instagram kind of shows how much the attacks were blown out of proportion.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Because I disliked the prequels? I never harassed anybody over them or shat on somebody simply for liking them...


Your logic:
I hate the prequels because they ruined muh darth vader
But I like the sequels because they ruined luke skywalker




> Maybe I would've been an asshole had the internet been around/a household commodity when the prequels had been released, but I also would've been like 11 years old...If I behaved like a child, it's because I would've been one.


Funny I dont remember kids of that age hating the prequels at all. Specially since they where the target demographic. Even Attack of the clones - which I even found cringeworthy back then - was tolerable because of the cool stuff and waifu hershlag. Harrasing that way sounds like something a manchild would do which funny enough where the people that targeted jake loyd.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Fang is the one who said Rose's inclusion in TLJ was 'China-pandering' or whatever, right?
> 
> Imagine living such a sheltered life that casting anyone but white males is immediately seen by you as _pandering_. Like the real world doesn't exist and there aren't billions of Indians and Asians out there.


that has nothing to do with race, you racist smeg. It's about being fitting for the role and look like the part. Porg Tico was given the role because -subverting expectations - and because she looked like she didnt belong in starwars. And this was saif straight out of RJ's mouth.

Plus her character was complete turd.




The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> All ages movies.


RLM only shows how retarded they where alongside the manchildren, kids are smarter than what they think or what they where. When I was a kid I understood those scenes perfectly fine. This shit is being blown out of proportion and it started since their review.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

Hollywood is notoriously shit at casting East Asians in films, particularly Japanese and Koreans which is why they typically slot in Cambodians, Thai, Vietnamese, and Chinese actors/actresses everywhere a generic or cliche Asian role is needed. Look at fucking Storm Shadow in the GI Joes, they couldn't find a single Japanese actor and had to go with a Korean. Secondly, absolutely every fucking one knows Disney is obsessed with opening up the Chinese market to Star Wars merchandise. This is why they've spent such massive amounts of money on negotiating and striking deals with the Chinese government and the Chinese theater guilds to put TFA, R1, and TLJ in their box office.

China has the second largest individual film market in the world after the United States. And despite this, they've failed repeatedly to make any headway or positive gain.So any nonsense trying to ignore this reality is plain stupidity. There's no ifs or buts about it.

Also for context: the bootlegs of the Prequel Trilogy were popular among Chinese bootleggers and fans pirating the films in the early 2000s, especially on those pirated DVD burns that was estimated to have made over $2-2.5 billion in just five years in 2005.

Now, the backlash turned so hard on how bad the Disney films have been that you have fucking Disney and its shills in the media trying to paint the average Chinese citizen as being xenophobic and sexist to deflect from its constant and deepening failures. Which is ironic given the Chinese fucking loved that awful Warcraft movie, and are obsessed with the Fast & Furious franchise which have barely any Asian impact beyond Tokyo Drift and Han's character.

TFA did bad in China.
R1 did bad in China.

TLJ did so awful in China it was pulled out mid-way into the negotiated contract Disney had with Chinese theater owners because of how bad it was impacting their businesses; 4.5 weeks was the deal and the Chinese didn't hold it for even a full 2 weeks..

Solo also did bad, losing out to a fucking low budget Rom-Com movie and this is with Disney removing the "Star Wars" title from Solo to distance itself from the failures with the previous three SW films in the mainland.

There is no secret here Disney wants that market and they have failed to do it and further pushed Chinese mainstream film goers from having any interest in it. Title cards, data footnotes, ect...were thrown into Episodes VII, VIII, and R1 to explain things and it just confused the Chinese audiences more so. Also ATM isn't very smart, given I said repeatedly in the past the Chinese aren't stupid and putting a chubby Vietnamese chick to try and pander to Chinese ethnic tastes wasn't going to fly and the numbers show it. They also didn't like how Yen's character was so cliche it felt like a stab at them.


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 13, 2018)

Superman said:


> How terrible society has become....


social media 100% ruined society


----------



## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Your logic:
> I hate the prequels because they ruined muh darth vader
> But I like the sequels because they ruined luke skywalker
> 
> ...



Oi, stop putting opinions into my mouth. I hated the prequels for a variety of reasons. I only brought up the Darth Vader example to contrast your opinions on how the new movies treated Luke. I like the sequels because I don't think they ruined Luke Skywalker and instead did something new and interesting with him, whereas the alternative would've probably been 'Obi Wan-light' and Mark Hamill...as awesome as he is...is no Alec Guiness. 

I don't remember the kids being the problem with the prequels either. It was the older crowd, the ones who were kids as the OT was being released. So yeah, manchildren.


----------



## Suigetsu (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Oi, stop putting opinions into my mouth. I hated the prequels for a variety of reasons. I only brought up the Darth Vader example to contrast your opinions on how the new movies treated Luke.
> 
> I like the sequels because I don't think they ruined Luke Skywalker and instead did something new and interesting with him, whereas the alternative would've probably been 'Obi Wan-light' and Mark Hamill...as awesome as he is...is no Alec Guiness.


So basically.


Suigetsu said:


> Your logic:
> I hate the prequels because it didnt fit my vision of darth vader
> But I like the sequels because they ruined luke skywalker


This is why I got you on debates so EZ.





> I don't remember the kids being the problem with the prequels either. It was the older crowd, the ones who were kids as the OT was being released. So yeah, manchildren.


They still do up to this day.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> So basically.
> 
> This is why I got you on debates so EZ.
> 
> ...



I guess if you just make up shit in place of my actual logic, then you can say "you got me on debates so EZ".


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> Hollywood is notoriously shit at casting East Asians in films, particularly Japanese and Koreans which is why they typically slot in Cambodians, Thai, Vietnamese, and Chinese actors/actresses everywhere a generic or cliche Asian role is needed. Look at fucking Storm Shadow in the GI Joes, they couldn't find a single Japanese actor and had to go with a Korean. Secondly, absolutely every fucking one knows Disney is obsessed with opening up the Chinese market to Star Wars merchandise. This is why they've spent such massive amounts of money on negotiating and striking deals with the Chinese government and the Chinese theater guilds to put TFA, R1, and TLJ in their box office.
> 
> China has the second largest individual film market in the world after the United States. And despite this, they've failed repeatedly to make any headway or positive gain.So any nonsense trying to ignore this reality is plain stupidity. There's no ifs or buts about it.
> 
> ...



tl;dr Star Wars movies do bad in China therefore any and all attempts to cast East Asian characters immediately have an ulterior motive and are pandering LMAO

Like, this isn't some Transformers 5 nonsense where the movie's setting is Asia - *that*, you could pose a halfway feasible argument that it's pandering to Chinese viewers. But Rose is literally a character who just happens to be Asian. She does not do kung fu, she is not a wizard with a dragon perched on her shoulder, she does not salute the fucking PRC at any point during TLJ. Also?



> TFA did bad in China.



L O L

TFA pulled $125m from China, you nimrod. That's higher than any MCU movie bar AoU, Infinity War, and Civil War. Please stop talking about box office like you have any actual semblance of a clue how it works, you showed as much when you claimed The Last Jedi didn't make a profit or something.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> tl;dr Star Wars movies do bad in China therefore any and all attempts to cast East Asian characters immediately have an ulterior motive and are pandering LMAO
> 
> Like, this isn't some Transformers 5 nonsense where the movie's setting is Asia - *that*, you could pose a halfway feasible argument that it's pandering to Chinese viewers. But Rose is literally a character who just happens to be Asian. She does not do kung fu, she is not a wizard with a dragon perched on her shoulder, she does not salute the fucking PRC at any point during TLJ. Also?



And she's not Chinese!


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## Gaiash (Jul 13, 2018)

I don't even know what to say at this point. People are resorting to conspiracy theories now?


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> tl;dr Star Wars movies do bad in China therefore any and all attempts to cast East Asian characters immediately have an ulterior motive and are pandering LMAO



Are you an idiot? Seriously, are you?



> Like, this isn't some Transformers 5 nonsense where the movie's setting is Asia - *that*, you could pose a halfway feasible argument that it's pandering to Chinese viewers. But Rose is literally a character who just happens to be Asian. She does not do kung fu, she is not a wizard with a dragon perched on her shoulder, she does not salute the fucking PRC at any point during TLJ. Also?



Woah, a dumb strawman that tries to move the goal posts. What great debating skills. Take something I *didn't* say and then try to argue that I did.



> L O L



Cringe



> TFA pulled $125m from China, you nimrod. That's higher than any MCU movie bar AoU, Infinity War, and Civil War. Please stop talking about box office like you have any actual semblance of a clue how it works, you showed as much when you claimed The Last Jedi didn't make a profit or something.



Were you dropped on the head as a baby repeatedly or just mentally incapacitated from all your Disney shilling? Because you are conflating what was stated with Solo with TLJ, and on top of which TLJ set RECORDS with its failures at the box office to get anywhere close to TFA, like record breaking DROPS in audience attendance and ticket sales you nonsensical little man. I said TLJ *barely* made any money.

>-77% DROP in ticket sales in its first weekend at the box office
>"Made lots of money"
>TLJ



You are very much the epitome of someone who doesn't know shit about anything.

>$500 million to make and market TLJ
>Foreign theaters get 40%-50% from day 1 period
>Domestic theaters get 25%-30% from second week typically
>6% sales tax on whatever is remaining

That $1.3 billion barely translates to $200-$220 million. Pretty shit. Now go be more passive aggressive you nancy.

And as for TFA, it barely did $28 million its opening weekend in China and had a 72% drop its second weekend. Hitting well below the conservative numbers Disney was estimating of $55 million dollars. It was supposed to make over $250 million in China. Once again, you are ignorant as fuck.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> Are you an idiot? Seriously, are you?
> 
> Woah, a dumb strawman that tries to move the goal posts. What great debating skills. Take something I *didn't* say and then try to argue that I did.



Take note here, people. Fang's pretty used to having his hateful tirades responded to with a circlejerk, so when someone actually bothers calling him out on his racist, misogynistic, homophobic, or flat-out incorrect horseshit he reacts like this: either ignores the post in classic nigh-concession like he did when I contradicted his godawful 'just deal with harassment !!!!' stance, passive-aggressively responds to it via a reply to _another_ poster, or breaks into a tantrum like you're witnessing right here.



Fang said:


> >-77% DROP in ticket sales in its first weekend at the box office





That's 77% drop from the *Friday-to-Friday from its opening to 2nd week. *

You don't even remotely know what terminology you're using when you're talking about these things, the way you phrased it implied it was a 77% drop from *TFA.*



Fang said:


> >$500 million to make and market TLJ
> >Foreign theaters get 40%-50% from day 1 period
> >Domestic theaters get 25%-30% from second week typically
> >6% sales tax on whatever is remaining
> ...



Here, pal, I'm going to help you out. Going to lend a helping hand.



See this, Fang? Good! It's a link! Click on it, I hear it's an aid for morons! There we go.



See that? See that scary red line? That's the profit, Fang!



W-w-wait, how can a movie that made _barely any profit_ according to overseer Fang himself, be the most profitable movie of 2017???? Holy shit, that means every other movie made barely any money too!!!



Fang said:


> And as for TFA, it barely did $28 million its opening weekend in China



Oh, Fang.





Please, please, PLEASE stop talking about anything box-office related.



Fang said:


> and had a 72% drop its second weekend.



That is extremely standard by China's box office, you dumb fucking idiot lol. Most U.S. blockbusters in China struggle to get much over a 2x multiplier, see even MCU movies which are incredibly popular there. Again, if there was even the slightest hint of an inkling that you knew what you were talking about - like when you muse on, say, how many gigatons Ezra has in a swing of his saber or whatever the fuck, there might be an actual discussion to be had here.

But instead, it's just the bleating of some dumbass who thinks driving normal people off social media is acceptable.



Fang said:


> Hitting well below the conservative numbers Disney was estimating of $55 million dollars. It was supposed to make over $250 million in China. Once again, you are ignorant as fuck.



Expectations were all over the place for TFA's China numbers. There was no precedent to measure by because the franchise was an extremely unknown quantity in that region.





> Estimates for total gross currently range from $107 million according to local box office trackers, to as high as $230 million, according to securities firm Nomura Holdings, which sees it equaling “Jurassic World.”







> Yet, while some analysts say that *Star Wars *will rake in a measly $100-200 million for its entire run in China. “The expectations are all over the place,” says Paul Dergarabedian, a senior media analyst at Rentrak.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I guess if you just make up shit in place of my actual logic, then you can say "you got me on debates so EZ".


I am not making shit up, I am just pointing out how flawed and ridiculous your logic is. Let alone biased.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> *snip*



>that zoomer who thinks he can refute a point by making up nonsensical rhetoric while trying to poison the well


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> I am not making shit up, I am just pointing out how flawed and ridiculous your logic is. Let alone biased.



How is my logic flawed? When you say things like "ruining a character", that's purely subjective and is based around how you perceived the character. I thought Luke functioned nicely as an audience surrogate in the original trilogy, but his character was not particularly deep, unique or compelling. Even Lucas admitted to using the 'heroes journey' as a template. So he would be dull outside of that context and it wouldn't make sense to keep him as an audience surrogate because he's no longer the main character. 

Doing something different and unique with a character does not automatically mean ruination. And biased? You can't say "Luke is ruined" and not be biased. In fact, the fact that you're a Star Wars fan automatically makes you biased. Had you not seen the original trilogy prior to the new films, you wouldn't have had an issue with his characterization because that bias would've been removed from the equation.

You say so many things, but don't seem to understand what they mean. 



Fang said:


> >that zoomer who thinks he can refute a point by making up nonsensical rhetoric while trying to poison the well



This is Fang's way of saying he lost the debate, but wants to save face.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> >that zoomer who thinks he can refute a point by making up nonsensical rhetoric while trying to poison the well



Ah yes, there's so much rhetorical about just providing links and actual evidence to your straight-up _made-up_ numbers. 

Like where do you get this stuff? $28m in China for TFA's opening? $200m for TLJ's profit? Do you live in an alternate universe where these things happened? Are you actually so intellectually dishonest that you'd rather just invent stuff rather then just _look it up on Google_?

Concession accepted.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> This is Fang's way of saying he lost the debate, but wants to save face.



Yup. Imagine being so shook about losing an online debate with anonymous strangers that you have to make up excuses.  And with that, to the ignore list with him.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Yup. Imagine being so shook about losing an online debate with anonymous strangers that you have to make up excuses.  And with that, to the ignore list with him.



The hatedom on Narutoforums needs a new President. Fang just can't keep up anymore.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Ah yes, there's so much rhetorical about just providing links and actual evidence to your straight-up _made-up_ numbers.



>"Misogynistic"
>"Hateful"
>"Racist"

Try again, you shill cuck.

>made up numbers

Are you retarded?





> Like where do you get this stuff? $28m in China for TFA's opening? $200m for TLJ's profit? Do you live in an alternate universe where these things happened? Are you actually so intellectually dishonest that you'd rather just invent stuff rather then just _look it up on Google_?



Are you channeling your Catalyst autism here?





You are so stupid you were trying to project TFA over TLJ being a box office bomb compared to its predecessor while trying to move the goal posts.



> Concession accepted.



Try again, skippy. Go ahead and tell me right now how much after Disney has foreign and domestic theater owners take their cut and the 6% flat sales tax on what's left over how much you think the Mouse got from that $1.3 billion.

"Made up numbers"

t. your ass


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

There he goes with the "Cuck"'s. Next comes the "Soy Boy"'s.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

Now the projections for both TFA and R1 from the same financial analyst at Forbes



Only off by a small margin  (70 million & 30 million respectively) so pretty legit given he made these predication in early 2016.

@SodhiPack

Unlike other analysts and overtly optimistic forecasters in Wall Street, Aswath was correct that we would see a $200 million+ fall in revenue.

Now onto the meat:

Disney's financial report for fiscal year 2015:



2016: 
2017: 

TFA profit: $780 million which represents the *entire* operating increase of Disney's studio

Deadline report for TFA financial standing, revenue, etc...: 

"Cash on return was twice that of any other film at 2.00"

Pretty good.

HOWEVER



There are way more costs for making a movie then simply blanket production and marketing budgets as the report reflects.



"776 million in costs."

So for The Force Awakens, a 2.2 billion revenue after all its costs and productions netted Disney...$780 million dollars in profit. 

The Force Awakens which made 46% _*more *_than The Last Jedi did at the box office. Now for TLJ's numbers due to rental numbers (ticket sales with theater owners cut) to calculate how much Disney rough took in.

TFA had a 64% compromise between Disney and theater owners for its run vs TLJ getting a 65% one. So the difference in both nominal and minute over that period of six weeks. Theater owners domestically took 55% of the North American gross which translates to approximately $513 million USD. The remaining $427 million went to Disney. Globally/overseas, theater owners only took in 35-36%, which translate to a gross of $400 million. Chinese theaters in particular apparently have a rate of 25% independent of everyone else, so lol.

Now compare these percentages with The Last Jedi. North American numbers come to $336 million, global (excluding China) at $248 million, and China at a fucking pathetic $10.6 million. This gives clear indication Disney essentially paid 37% less to Chinese theaters because it made a lot less in China. Ultimately Disney's actual pocket take after everything from TLJ is $153 million. This is pretty much on par with BvS which was a flop despite trending just south of a billion. And somewhere along the line the $627 million goes straight into a loss for the Star Wars IP and Disney's finances. 

And given what we know about BD/DVD sales absolutely tanking for TLJ (last report was less than half of TFA's numbers), it probably won't go past a low end 40% aka 240 million, which is right on the disaster line.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> >"Misogynistic"
> >"Hateful"
> >"Racist"
> 
> Try again, you shill cuck.



I like how you intentionally left out homophobic from the quote, are you not even denying that you're not, now? 



Fang said:


> >made up numbers
> 
> Are you retarded?



*You*:


Fang said:


> That $1.3 billion barely translates to $200-$220 million.


*
Me: 


You:*


Fang said:


> And as for TFA, it barely did $28 million its opening weekend in China



*Me:

*
You were literally, FACTUALLY making up numbers for your claims. Do you deny this?


This has what to do fuck all with, again? 



> You are so stupid you were trying to project TFA over TLJ being a box office bomb compared to its predecessor while trying to move the goal posts.
> 
> Try again, skippy. Go ahead and tell me right now how much after Disney has foreign and domestic theater owners take their cut and the 6% flat sales tax on what's left over how much you think the Mouse got from that $1.3 billion.
> 
> ...





Fang said:


> tldr personal estimations of someone who has no knowledge of the industry





Deadline, the *industry lead source* for all things Hollywood and box office related, has its professional experts calculate a *$417 million* profit for The Last Jedi.

Fang: "NOOOO MY PERSONAL ESTIMATIONS ARE MORE ACCURATE!!!!"

Are you going to say Deadline was paid by Disney or something? 

Do you honestly, SERIOUSLY think you are more an accurate source than Deadline?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang .. Fang never changes


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Fang .. Fang never changes



Like, I would never think he was so arrogant to actually think his armchair calculations somehow supersede those of multiple professional industry analysts. He thinks he can drop his little mini-essays and that somehow becomes fact. 

This is a whole new level.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> *snip*



So you *are* retarded since you can't actually read the links and the numbers put up Disney's own financial reports and are now interjecting nonsensical conspiracy theory bullshit. Good to know. 

"Armchair calculation"

>numbers straight from Disney's financial fiscal year reports from 2015-2017

Once more you are dumb.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> So you *are* retarded since you can't actually read the links and the numbers put up Disney's own financial reports and are now interjecting nonsensical conspiracy theory bullshit. Good to know.
> 
> "Armchair calculation"
> 
> ...



I didn't even read your links or calculations lmao. Know why?











But somehow, the enlightened Fang is so utterly more knowledgeable than these industry pundits that _none_ of them caught onto Deadline's dastardly conniving lying schemes!!!

Buddy, you're delusional. Move on.


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> I didn't even read



I know, that's the proof you are a moron for admitting it since you clearly didn't see the sources showing what I said. So to end this, you are a very dumb brainlet who has zero idea what you are talking about period, try to poison the well repeatedly, share the same hive-minded autism that other undesirables in this thread do, and you have no chance in hell of ever winning an argument when you talk out of your ass constantly while trying to use constant strawman arguments and everything else to project your retarded self-fulfilling narrative.

>post financial reports from Disney's own records spanning the entirety of 2015-2017 which show the actual "costs" of making TFA and Rogue One for example
>shows how much money Disney spent on TFA explicitly nearly $800 million instead of merely "400 million"
>which flies in the face of "200 million dollars ONLY spent on producing TFA" which skews the numbers and inflates their profit

"I don't need to read what you say to say something to offer a rebuttal."

Pathetic. This is why you are a joke.


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## Gaiash (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> hive-minded autism


What does that even mean?


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## The Runner (Jul 13, 2018)

Fang said:


> Secondly, absolutely every fucking one knows Disney is obsessed with opening up the Chinese market to Star Wars merchandise. This is why they've spent such massive amounts of money on negotiating and striking deals with the Chinese government and the Chinese theater guilds to put TFA, R1, and TLJ in their box office.


South Park made an entire episode about specifically that. That’s how much this is common knowledge


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## Blade (Jul 13, 2018)

Fluttershit is now butt buddies with ABadMuffin


pathetic


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## Fang (Jul 13, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> South Park made an entire episode about specifically that. That’s how much this is common knowledge



Yep.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 13, 2018)

I feel like the fact that Kelly Marie Tran isn't Chinese or of Chinese descent is being deliberately overlooked here. Yes, we all know Disney wants that Chinese market, as "Rogue One" is an obvious attempt to appeal to their market. They- as all movies that want to appeal to that market do- hire Chinese stars...like Donnie Yen.

They don't hire a nobody of Vietnamese descent. If they were trying to pander to anyone with the casting of Tran, it was either Asian Americans or those who are constantly complaining about the lack of diversity.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> How is my logic flawed? When you say things like "ruining a character", that's purely subjective and is based around how you perceived the character. I thought Luke functioned nicely as an audience surrogate in the original trilogy, but his character was not particularly deep, unique or compelling. Even Lucas admitted to using the 'heroes journey' as a template. So he would be dull outside of that context and it wouldn't make sense to keep him as an audience surrogate because he's no longer the main character.


It doesnt matter if you think the character was deep or not. Your whole statement basically is diminishing his character to justify the trashing of the character.
If you didnt like his character nor resonated with it then that's you but it clearly did with a lot of other people. The idea of getting out of your comfort zone to change the world and be optimistic and fight for your loved ones despite the world turning against you.



> Doing something different and unique with a character does not automatically mean ruination. And biased? You can't say "Luke is ruined" and not be biased. In fact, the fact that you're a Star Wars fan automatically makes you biased. Had you not seen the original trilogy prior to the new films, you wouldn't have had an issue with his characterization because that bias would've been removed from the equation.



Doing something with a character that is out of character and not within it's nature IS ruination. And how does pointing that out make me bias? Dude this is writing 101, so cut out that shit. I am not a starwars fan but I know of it plenty.

I am gonna give you an example, first game I played in the GOW franchise was the 3rd one. It seemed cool but I wanted to know why was kratos behaving like that and stuff. So I got the 1 and 2 collection and after playing it I came to the conclusion that the story of 3 was terrible and kratos was terribly written in there.
So, again... was I biased? I am applying your very same logic here.

If you go back and read/watch the stuff chronologically then it is only natural that you will find how shit that is. And you cannot defend this because it is a sequel and not an independent work.

You say so many things, but don't seem to understand what they mean.




> This is Fang's way of saying he lost the debate, but wants to save face.


But you always loose the  debates dude.  Cause you are pretty clueless, otherwise you wouldnt have acted so salty like the last time.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 14, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> It doesnt matter if you think the character was deep or not. Your whole statement basically is diminishing his character to justify the trashing of the character.
> If you didnt like his character nor resonated with it then that's you but it clearly did with a lot of other people. The idea of getting out of your comfort zone to change the world and be optimistic and fight for your loved ones despite the world turning against you.
> 
> 
> ...



Oi, Soygetsu, You keep twisting my words to fit your narrative. When did I say I didn't like his character? We've had this argument a million times before, where I explained how the seeds of Luke's failings in the new films were planted in the original trilogy, so it wasn't character assassination. You disagreed and we went on a million different tangents that somehow lead to you defending Vader's portrayal in the prequels. 

Your example is problematic because I've never played GOW, so I have no idea what you're referring too specifically. 

And you always insist you win these debates, but most of them seem to be you taking me out of context, twisting my words or making shit up. So the closest thing you've gotten to defeating me is defeating a made up version of me within your head...and you probably still lost that fight. 

And if 'acting salty'= losing, then Fang must've never won a debate in his life. He's the saltiest person in these forums.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Which is a pretty f@cking stupid sentiment anyway as the actress isn't Chinese...or even of Chinese descent...Do you think Fang knows this?
> 
> If they really wanted to pander to Chinese audiences, they'd cast Chinese actors...something Disney has done many times before...including in other Star Wars movies...


Acorrding to progressive logic all asians are the same, superior to whites and enlightened beyond ethnic differences.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 14, 2018)

Blade said:


> Fluttershit is now butt buddies with ABadMuffin
> 
> 
> pathetic


Broli movie cash grab will be worse than TLJ


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## Fang (Jul 14, 2018)

>Martial thinks he can baitpost
>Ironically while complaining about someone "taking his words out of context" when that's his own "debating" tactic 99% of the time

Super ironic


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## Garcher (Jul 14, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Broli movie cash grab will be worse than TLJ


that's not possible


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 14, 2018)

old Toriyama will break the limits of his senility


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## Claudio Swiss (Jul 14, 2018)

Blade said:


> Fluttershit is now butt buddies with ABadMuffin
> 
> 
> pathetic


We all now the mutt and his butt buddies are pretty close with there stupidity


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## James Bond (Jul 14, 2018)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Broli movie cash grab will be worse than TLJ


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## MartialHorror (Jul 14, 2018)

Fang said:


> >Martial thinks he can baitpost
> >Ironically while complaining about someone "taking his words out of context" when that's his own "debating" tactic 99% of the time
> 
> Super ironic



If I really wanted to bait you, I'd just talk shit about the prequels again. 



The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Acorrding to progressive logic all asians are the same, superior to whites and enlightened beyond ethnic differences.



*sigh* stop trying to spread this nonsense, Kamal.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> *sigh* stop trying to spread this nonsense, Kamal.


In practice it is true.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 14, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> In practice it is true.



No it's not.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> If I really wanted to bait you, I'd just talk shit about the prequels again.


So since most of your arguments and "debates" are crap. Does that mean they are all bait? This is some really awful excuse. Specially since we know how you act when you get triggered.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 14, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> So since most of your arguments and "debates" are crap. Does that mean they are all bait? This is some really awful excuse. Specially since we know how you act when you get triggered.



lol, you get angrier during these than I do. Your 'debates' are more about getting a rise out of people and less about substantial issues or the topics at hand, but I simply need to learn my lesson and not feed the trolls.

No, most of my arguments are not bait. I was referencing an incident when I talked shit about the prequels and Fang had a meltdown over it. It was surreal at the time because when I did try to shit talk him around the time "The Last Jedi" came out, he brushed me off and mocked my attempts to get him riled up. I wasn't even trying to make him angry when I badmouthed the prequels either, as I assumed he hated them too. But nope, he started foaming at the mouth.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 14, 2018)

Hey @Suigetsu , I have serious question for you, based on our talk about character assassinations.

There is a new "Halloween" movie coming out and I realized that there are some parallels with "Star Wars" when it comes to the original protagonists. I think most of us would agree that Luke was intended to be the audience avatar in the original movie, the person whom we relate to the most. Laurie Strode from "Halloween" was also an audience avatar in that there wasn't really anything deep or unique about her character. It's just that we- the audience- fit snugly into her shoes and she's likable enough to get on her side, just like Luke.

Now just so you can't take anything I say out of context, I want to remind you that this is not a criticism or a complaint. Their simple characterizations were perfect for the narratives they were taking part in. Yet by the time "Halloween H20" came around, they can't simply re-use the audience avatar, as that kind of characterization is usually reserved for the younger lead (in this case, Josh Hartnet). So they have to do something with the character to keep from being bland and in that case, they made her a paranoid alcoholic, a far cry from how she was presented in the original. No one complained though and if anything, her portrayal was the only thing people consistently liked about the movie. In the new "Halloween", it looks like they're darkening the character even further, as she now seems somewhat unhinged and interviews have suggested she's alienated her family. Yet the fandom mostly sounds stoked for this turn. So is this character assassination? Why does the Halloween fandom seem much more open minded by the dark and more interesting turns of the character than Star Wars does with its hero?

This isn't really meant to call out the logic as hypocritical, as I can think of a few reasons why their situations might be different. But I want to know what you think. Of course, this is assuming you have even seen "Halloween"...If not, then this comparison was about as useful as your GOW comparison...


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## Suigetsu (Jul 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, you get angrier during these than I do. Your 'debates' are more about getting a rise out of people and less about substantial issues or the topics at hand, but I simply need to learn my lesson and not feed the trolls.


Lmao, who are you trying to fool? Did you already forgot your whole meltdown when we where discussing and I called you a washed up dude? 



> No, most of my arguments are not bait. I was referencing an incident when I talked shit about the prequels and Fang had a meltdown over it. It was surreal at the time because when I did try to shit talk him around the time "The Last Jedi" came out, he brushed me off and mocked my attempts to get him riled up. I wasn't even trying to make him angry when I badmouthed the prequels either, as I assumed he hated them too. But nope, he started foaming at the mouth.


TBH I think that you are so naive when you discuss and present things that your stuff appears as bait. Specially when you bring up debates and apply your logic.


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## Suigetsu (Jul 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Hey @Suigetsu , I have serious question for you, based on our talk about character assassinations.



You lost me here, there are so many versions of halloween that I lost count. TBH I have only seen the original one and the reboot which was a fucking joke. The only likable and cool character was killed in the most lame and pathetic way. I just hope he survived.

Sorry I am afraid that I am not the guy you want to talk about when it comes to slasher/horror films.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 15, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> No it's not.


Sadly it is.


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## MartialHorror (Jul 15, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Lmao, who are you trying to fool? Did you already forgot your whole meltdown when we where discussing and I called you a washed up dude?
> 
> 
> TBH I think that you are so naive when you discuss and present things that your stuff appears as bait. Specially when you bring up debates and apply your logic.



Made up history. You grossly overestimate the effect you have on my day.

Personally, I don't get why you'd want to bring up your post petty attempt at misdirection. When you respond to my points about the topic at hand with "You're a failure", that suggests you have nothing else. If anything, that was your meltdown. In fact, it correlated with me starting to call call you "Soygetsu".


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## Fang (Jul 15, 2018)

So much cringe.


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## Rukia (Jul 15, 2018)

I can’t even tell what you guys are debating.

I agree with the person that is more negative about the Last Jedi.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Suigetsu (Jul 16, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Made up history. You grossly overestimate the effect you have on my day.
> 
> Personally, I don't get why you'd want to bring up your post petty attempt at misdirection. When you respond to my points about the topic at hand with "You're a failure", that suggests you have nothing else. If anything, that was your meltdown. In fact, it correlated with me starting to call call you "Soygetsu".



Your day basically consists on doing reviews on an anime forum, and judging by your non stop petty attempts at baiting and triggered behaviour I can safely assume that you got a meltdown after the legendary BTFO that I gave you. 



Rukia said:


> I can’t even tell what you guys are debating.
> 
> I agree with the person that is more negative about the Last Jedi.


Le failed washed up critic got upset because people refuted him and called him for having shiet taste.


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## Gaiash (Jul 16, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> triggered


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## MartialHorror (Jul 16, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Your day basically consists on doing reviews on an anime forum, and judging by your non stop petty attempts at baiting and triggered behaviour I can safely assume that you got a meltdown after the legendary BTFO that I gave you.
> 
> 
> Le failed washed up critic got upset because people refuted him and called him for having shiet taste.



There ya go, deflecting as always. Whenever you try to present yourself as the victor in our squabbles, I think of Wimp Lo from "Kung Pow". 

"I'm bleeding, so I must be the victor."


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## Fang (Jul 17, 2018)

FAS is a hell of a drug I see.


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## Zef (Jul 17, 2018)

You guys see this?


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## Zef (Jul 17, 2018)

This guy perfectly sums up why the movie was bad


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## Gaiash (Jul 17, 2018)

And by perfectly sums up you mean makes the same terrible arguments but stretches them out to be half an hour. He even makes the "should have been Admiral Ackbar" argument even though the entire point of Holdo's arc is we *don't* know her because Poe doesn't and we see her plan from his perspective.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 18, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> And by perfectly sums up you mean makes the same terrible arguments but stretches them out to be half an hour. He even makes the "should have been Admiral Ackbar" argument even though the entire point of Holdo's arc is we *don't* know her because Poe doesn't and we see her plan from his perspective.


That was a stupid perspective. Also if this is the last stand of the Rebels do not condascend bitch. Shit was supposed to be serious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jul 30, 2018)

I learned something strange. There was this big argument about whether Rotten Tomatoes audience score could be tampered with, but recently there has been a controversy surrounding the movie "Gotti". It had a 0% on Rotten Tomatoes, but for awhile, an 80% audience score (it would eventually drop to a 55%). People suspected that someone had tampered with the score, especially as there were as many audience reviews on the opening weekend as "The Incredibles 2". Apparently most of them were new accounts, while a lot of them had only reviewed "Gotti" and "American Animals". 

The connection? Both were owned by moviepass, but despite these strange numbers, rotten tomatoes denies tampering took place. 

So maybe the 'audience' score can be corrupted after all...

I'm not saying it actually happened, but I remember certain users named Fang insisting that such a thing was not possible.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Djomla (Jul 30, 2018)

When it comes to Last Trash. I will find it more believable that Disney paid that critics than audience score being tempered with. The movie was shitty from the moment it started.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gaiash (Jul 30, 2018)

Djomla said:


> When it comes to Last Trash. I will find it more believable that Disney paid that critics than audience score being tempered with. The movie was shitty from the moment it started.


Is critics disagreeing with you on a movie is so hard to believe?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jul 30, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Is critics disagreeing with you on a movie is so hard to believe?


Sadly it's not. They are groupthinking 2010s progressives trough and trough for the most part.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 19, 2018)

So today I actually saw The Ex-File 3: Return of the Exes (2017).

It was indeed better than The Last Jedi. Well-deserved win at the Chinese box office.


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## Mider T (Aug 19, 2018)

mr_shadow said:


> So today I actually saw The Ex-File 3: Return of the Exes (2017).
> 
> It was indeed better than The Last Jedi. Well-deserved win at the Chinese box office.


I wanted to see that but I haven't seen the first 2.


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## Fang (Aug 19, 2018)

And also related

Star Wars: Resistance has only like 3k views on its official channel on Youtube and only 7k thumbs up and over 24k thumbs down, and the day before the trailer dropped, Filoni stated he has nothing to do with the day-to-day operations for that show


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## Suigetsu (Aug 19, 2018)

Fang said:


> And also related
> 
> Star Wars: Resistance has only like 3k views on its official channel on Youtube and only 7k thumbs up and over 24k thumbs down, and the day before the trailer dropped, Filoni stated he has nothing to do with the day-to-day operations for that show


 the absolute state of a dead franchise.

Gotta give it to K.k. you need talent to destroy one of the most succesful entertainment franchises of the world.


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## Mider T (Aug 19, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> the absolute state of a dead franchise.
> 
> Gotta give it to K.k. you need talent to destroy one of the most succesful entertainment franchises of the world.


Not sure why you keep calling it dead.  The franchise is making millions.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 19, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Not sure why you keep calling it dead.  The franchise is making millions.


>making millions
Toys & merchandise are rotting on the shelves
New show trailer has like 4k thumb up and over 40k thumb down
Toy stores are stocking even less and less SW stuff each wave

The is no more interest in the franchise, they have yet to make their investment back and they spent another 2B usd on the new park section for SW. Which is pretty dumb since the interest on SW is dead.


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## Fang (Aug 19, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Not sure why you keep calling it dead.  The franchise is making millions.



But it should be making billions. And the immediate reception to Resistance trailer has been overwhelmingly negative, just like the absolute dog shit their merchandise is doing for the toys and games, and on top of that the situation being so awful that it killed Toys R Us and hurt Target and other major retailers with backstock. 

Which correlates with the fact Kennedy is probably on her way out. We haven't even had anything from her in the news in the last 8 months outside of the press release thing with John Faveru and the Red Carpet appearance for Solo.


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## Atlas (Aug 19, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> >making millions
> Toys & merchandise are rotting on the shelves
> New show trailer has like 4k thumb up and over 40k thumb down
> Toy stores are stocking even less and less SW stuff each wave
> ...



I'm also _still_ waiting for a good Star Wars game. So fucking smart of them to just let EA have the rights. Like, which dumb ass thought that was a good idea? Especially after the constant bad pr EA gets.


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## Fang (Aug 19, 2018)

Atlas said:


> I'm also _still_ waiting for a good Star Wars game. So fucking smart of them to just let EA have the rights. Like, which dumb ass thought that was a good idea? Especially after the constant bad pr EA gets.



If the signs are any indication, EA and Dice are going to be very hurt over how the pre-sales are tanking hard for the latest Battlefield.


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## Gaiash (Aug 19, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Not sure why you keep calling it dead.  The franchise is making millions.


Because that's the narrative they're trying to push. They want to make it seem like the new direction destroyed the franchise when really it just split the audience.


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## Fang (Aug 19, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because that's the narrative they're trying to push. They want to make it seem like the new direction destroyed the franchise when really it just split the audience.



>narrative
>objective facts


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## MartialHorror (Aug 19, 2018)

Fang said:


> >narrative
> >objective facts



> Fang's obsession over "TLJ".


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## Suigetsu (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because that's the narrative they're trying to push. They want to make it seem like the new direction destroyed the franchise when really it just split the audience.


>Pushing narrative
Presenting facts isnt pushing narratives darling. SW is costing them money, why do you think they canned all the spinoffs already?


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## Mickey Mouse (Aug 20, 2018)

SW is fine guys.....it's fine. It will rebound from this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gaiash (Aug 20, 2018)

Fang said:


> >narrative
> >objective facts


You have a weird definition of objective.



Suigetsu said:


> why do you think they canned all the spinoffs already?


Because they realized "backstory of character from the original trilogy" was not the money making concept they had in mind and all the spin-offs they had planned fit that definition.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 20, 2018)

Superman said:


> SW is fine guys.....it's fine. It will rebound from this.


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## Fang (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You have a weird definition of objective.



There has never been a Star Wars game that bombed before Disney had it or failed to met even their lowest expectations: 

- Battlefront 2 EA low end according to EA and Disney was supposed to do 14 million copies; barely did 9 million
- Both companies lost a substantial amount of money further when fucking loot box fiasco went under way and both took a beating for it (EA alone lost over $2 billion in stock when the story leaked to news outlets and gaming media)

- Solo bombing HARD 

- Disney's repeated failures in the Eastern Asian market with China trying to movie SW films into that market (TLJ doing so bad it was pulled out two weeks earlier than expected due to terrible turnout)

- TLJ failing all expectations (it'll do at least 1.6 billion right?)

- Resistance getting absolutely resisted from everyone for its visuals and Filoni not being apart of its day to day operations

- Toys absolutely sitting in surplus to the point it was a cancer that put Toys R Us in bankruptcy and people aren't sure that Kenner will stick with Disney any longer to make SW figures 

- On top of this, toys for Rogue One and especially TLJ and Solo are not leaving the shelves in major retailers

You keep telling yourself that.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because that's the narrative they're trying to push. They want to make it seem like the new direction destroyed the franchise when really it just split the audience.


It damaged it a lot.


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## dr_shadow (Aug 20, 2018)

Mider T said:


> I wanted to see that but I haven't seen the first 2.



They seem to be stand-alone. There were no references to any previous movies (a'la "you're breaking up with me AGAIN?!"), so I think that like the "Lost in [Country]" series they're united only thematically but not narratively.


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## Gaiash (Aug 20, 2018)

Fang said:


> - Battlefront 2 EA low end according to EA and Disney was supposed to do 14 million copies; barely did 9 million
> - Both companies lost a substantial amount of money further when fucking loot box fiasco went under way and both took a beating for it (EA alone lost over $2 billion in stock when the story leaked to news outlets and gaming media)


You're using game failures specific to those games as an argument against the movies when all criticism of those games were because of choices made by EA, not Disney.



Fang said:


> - Solo bombing HARD


We've discussed this. Solo's failure was due to coming out too soon after The Last Jedi that people were thinking "another Star Wars movie already?" regardless of their opinion on the other films. It also had too much competition from other popular movies out at the time and most people weren't really interested in a Han Solo movie about the time before he became Han Solo. There are people who loved The Last Jedi weren't fussed about seeing Solo.

What you're doing is taking information and blowing it out of proportion to make it support your narrative.


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## Fang (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> You're using game failures specific to those games as an argument against the movies when all criticism of those games were because of choices made by EA, not Disney.



I'm going to use the fact that they had a colossal whiplash that hurt both Disney and EA because of choices they made that were described by fucking federal governments of multiple countries as being predatory as failures in general and anti-consumer tactics specifically that hit both companies hard in the wallet.

And people were pissed off at Battlefront EA 1 too due to the fact Dice and EA seemed to think Star Wars fans were too stupid to get a single-player/campaign, AI bots, or server browsers and support for its game. No, it was not "specific" to one game.



> Solo's failure was due to coming out too soon after The Last Jedi that people were thinking "another Star Wars movie already?"



No. Solo's failure was because it was a movie no one gave a shit about and no one wanted, not because of franchise fatigue. And to this day, over three months later, people like you inventing reasons still why it failed is hilarious.



> regardless of their opinion on the other films. It also had too much competition from other popular movies out at the time and most people weren't really interested in a Han Solo movie about the time before he became Han Solo. There are people who loved The Last Jedi weren't fussed about seeing Solo.



Don't make things up, there is no correlation at all. The mental gymnastics people like you undertake to save face is honestly nonsensical:

First it was "it came too soon after TLJ", then it turned into "it was fans boycotting the film in spite due to TLJ", then it was other shit like "It was because of the Avengers Infinity War and Deadpool 2", no one is buying it.



> What you're doing is taking information and blowing it out of proportion to make it support your narrative.



Except, I am not. You can literally walk into any major retailer and see the backlog and back-stock of Star Wars merchandise taking up shelf space, or sneak into their warehouse room and see how much merchandise of toys and other shit are cluttering back there. We know Toys R Us had to file for bankruptcy because of over-stock, we know Kenner isn't going to be renewing their license for Star Wars toy making unless Disney drops the licensing fee by several orders due to the failure, and we have never seen outright Star Wars movies ever bomb at the box office like Solo or have historic record setting failures like TLJ did.

Deal with it.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 20, 2018)

franchise fatigue; the most hilarious excuse for Solo's failure 

meanwhile, fucking Marvel over here releasing 2-3 movies a year about characters most people haven't heard of...


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## Suigetsu (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Because they realized "backstory of character from the original trilogy" was not the money making concept they had in mind and all the spin-offs they had planned fit that definition.



They lost way too much money on solo. Like at least 500m on production.
TLJ even if you such its dick, did irreparable damage to the brand, people just dont care about SW anynore, their products aint sellin no more and the only interesting thing about this is the gossip regarding this trainwreck.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 20, 2018)

Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Can't wait for a West Coast Avengers movie!


go for Squirrel girl...stay for Kid Omega!

birrion dorrah franchise! 

meanwhile, over at Lucasfilm: -_crickets and tumbleweeds-_


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## ~Gesy~ (Aug 20, 2018)

So I heard Rian's trilogy may get scrapped as well.


Back to the drawing board for sturr wurrs?


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 20, 2018)

yeah, that guy needs to go back to making indie films. Dunno what they were thinking when they hired him to pen the script


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## Gaiash (Aug 20, 2018)

Fang said:


> No, it was not "specific" to one game.


I said game*s* plural in the post, you can see it in the quote in your own post.



Fang said:


> No. Solo's failure was because it was a movie no one gave a shit about and no one wanted, not because of franchise fatigue.


I didn't say franchise fatigue, I said the time between movies was too short as *one* of the reasons. Another reason I mentioned was that people weren't interested in a movie about Han Solo before he became Han Solo, which counts as being something "no one gave a shit about and no one wanted". But of course in your response to that part of the post you accused me of making things up.



Fang said:


> The mental gymnastics people like you undertake to save face is honestly nonsensical:


I think you're talking about yourself here.



Fang said:


> First it was "it came too soon after TLJ", then it turned into "it was fans boycotting the film in spite due to TLJ", then it was other shit like "It was because of the Avengers Infinity War and Deadpool 2", no one is buying it.


These aren't conflicting arguments, there's multiple contributing elements. This is why it's really clear you're full of crap, you like to argue it's only because of people with your point of view the movie didn't do well but my point is that there are several reasons why people who like the other Disney Star Wars movies didn't bother with Solo.


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## Fang (Aug 20, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I said game*s* plural in the post, you can see it in the quote in your own post.



Semantics, its just another front that Star Wars is suffering on.



> I didn't say franchise fatigue, I said the time between movies was too short as *one* of the reasons.



And you'd still be wrong either way. There are plenty of examples where movies are popped out in short order in major franchises like Fast & Furious, Star Trek, Marvel Cinematic Universe, Fox's X-Men + related properties, etc...



> Another reason I mentioned was that people weren't interested in a movie about Han Solo before he became Han Solo, which counts as being something "no one gave a shit about and no one wanted".



People weren't interested in it precisely for that but Disney's marketing and advertising and internal issues certainly conflated the issue into being even worse, which is why it bombed so badly.



> But of course in your response to that part of the post you accused me of making things up.



I accuse you of inventing a fallacious claim that people who are detractors of Disney Star Wars are "inventing" a narrative when reality contradicts your claim to this.



> I think you're talking about yourself here.



And you think wrong then.



> These aren't conflicting arguments, there's multiple contributing elements. This is why it's really clear you're full of crap, you like to argue it's only because of people with your point of view the movie didn't do well but my point is that there are several reasons why people who like the other Disney Star Wars movies didn't bother with Solo.



They don't have to conflict to indicate the fact that people like you jump through larger and larger imaginary hoops to invent reasons why TLJ set negative records or why Solo bombed. You can have as much bombastic nonsense you want to cook up in your head to try and deflect from that but it won't change the fact that there is a correlating trend in people getting less interested in the Star Wars universe under Disney. The massive drop between TFA to TLJ, the hilariously bigger one between TLJ and Solo, much less R1 to Solo as both are spin-offs, the failure with the merchandise, the fiascos and scandals with the Battlefront EA series, the numbers are there. You aren't going to convince anyone of otherwise.

So I'll repeat my earlier statement: deal with it.


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## Pocalypse (Aug 20, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> yeah, that guy needs to go back to making indie films. Dunno what they were thinking when they hired him to pen the script



I can't believe this is the guy who directed fucking Ozymandias from Breaking Bad and made Looper and Brick, works which I like, some more than others ofc but SW?

Total flop. Just not his thing. It's actually the biggest dud in his career.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 20, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> So I heard Rian's trilogy may get scrapped as well.
> 
> 
> Back to the drawing board for sturr wurrs?


Source please.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 20, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> They lost way too much money on solo. Like at least 500m on production.
> TLJ even if you such its dick, did irreparable damage to the brand, people just dont care about SW anynore, their products aint sellin no more and the only interesting thing about this is the gossip regarding this trainwreck.


the idea that people didn't watch solo because they didn't like TLJ is something you'd like to believe, not something there's any real proof for. the whole internet TLJ backlash phenomenon is one of those things where a group of people which is quite large in absolute terms - say, tens of thousands of people - but quite small compared to the worldwide audience of the star wars movies (many millions) feed each other's prejudices and nerd rage until they've convinced themselves that the wider public had the same opinion of TLJ that they did. but it grossed 1.33 billion and was the highest-grossing film of 2017, with random surveys of public audiences at cinemas - e.g. cinemascore, posttrak - finding that it was very well received

the internet campaign is just that: a campaign by a minority of people - who are mostly found on the internet - to try and change the idea most people have of how well it was received by vote brigading of user-rating areas on RT and metacritic. but that doesn't mean that normal people - as opposed to the kind of people who'd bother with this stuff - generally hated the film. it's well-received and well-liked

solo's problem was simply that nobody was interested in it, star wars or not. TLJ was offering something new, and even a prequel like rogue one was at least offering previously-unseen characters. solo was a retread, and it was a retread of something nobody really wanted to see - han solo before he became the cool guy everyone likes, when he was just a bumbling kid. they should never have greenlit it, and hopefully they've learned that they need to offer something new if they want people to give a shit

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Aug 20, 2018)

Fang said:


> And you'd still be wrong either way. There are plenty of examples where movies are popped out in short order in major franchises like Fast & Furious, Star Trek, Marvel Cinematic Universe, Fox's X-Men + related properties, etc...
> .



Um, just to clarify, "Fast & Furious" usually has 2 year intervals, Star Trek had 3-4 year intervals, "X-Men" has being doing it on a yearly basis, but their box office success has been mixed. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is definitely an exception, but it's also mostly comprised of standalone films. 



Lucaniel said:


> the idea that people didn't watch solo because they didn't like TLJ is something you'd like to believe, not something there's any real proof for. the whole internet TLJ backlash phenomenon is one of those things where a group of people which is quite large in absolute terms - say, tens of thousands of people - but quite small compared to the worldwide audience of the star wars movies (many millions) feed each other's prejudices and nerd rage until they've convinced themselves that the wider public had the same opinion of TLJ that they did. but it grossed 1.33 billion and was the highest-grossing film of 2017, with random surveys of public audiences at cinemas - e.g. cinemascore, posttrak - finding that it was very well received
> 
> the internet campaign is just that: a campaign by a minority of people - who are mostly found on the internet - to try and change the idea most people have of how well it was received by vote brigading of user-rating areas on RT and metacritic. but that doesn't mean that normal people - as opposed to the kind of people who'd bother with this stuff - generally hated the film. it's well-received and well-liked
> 
> solo's problem was simply that nobody was interested in it, star wars or not. TLJ was offering something new, and even a prequel like rogue one was at least offering previously-unseen characters. solo was a retread, and it was a retread of something nobody really wanted to see - han solo before he became the cool guy everyone likes, when he was just a bumbling kid. they should never have greenlit it, and hopefully they've learned that they need to offer something new if they want people to give a shit



The Summer release date really didn't help with Solo.


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## Atlas (Aug 20, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> yeah, that guy needs to go back to making indie films. Dunno what they were thinking when they hired him to pen the script




The bigger issue is that they would have a different director for each major film. Like, what. the. fuck. Whoever thought that was a good idea should have gotten the axe on the spot. How are you supposed to have a coherent plot across three films if you keep changing the fucking captain steering the ship?


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## MartialHorror (Aug 21, 2018)

Atlas said:


> The bigger issue is that they would have a different director for each major film. Like, what. the. fuck. Whoever thought that was a good idea should have gotten the axe on the spot. How are you supposed to have a coherent plot across three films if you keep changing the fucking captain steering the ship?



Yeah, that is like the dumbest idea ever! That's how garbage like "Empire Strikes Back" gets made. 

Oh wait...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Aeternus (Aug 21, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> So I heard Rian's trilogy may get scrapped as well.
> 
> 
> Back to the drawing board for sturr wurrs?


Wait, really?


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## MartialHorror (Aug 21, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> Wait, really?



They've been talking about it for awhile. It's still up in the air.

I have a feeling it will get scrapped though. If I had to guess, Kennedy will be allowed to finish Episode 9 and then will 'part ways' with the company and all of her projects will be scrapped. On that note, it's too bad as I think Rian Johnson would do better developing his own standalone story than by continuing someone elses.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 21, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> So I heard Rian's trilogy may get scrapped as well.
> 
> 
> Back to the drawing board for sturr wurrs?


The baby faced jizzy voice nu male's career is over. He will forever be known as the cuck who killed starwars.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> They've been talking about it for awhile. It's still up in the air.
> 
> I have a feeling it will get scrapped though. If I had to guess, Kennedy will be allowed to finish Episode 9 and then will 'part ways' with the company and all of her projects will be scrapped. On that note, it's too bad as I think Rian Johnson would do better developing his own standalone story than by continuing someone elses.


she will be out by the end of the lastest quarter. Why do you think she hasnt appeared at all?


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## Aeternus (Aug 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> They've been talking about it for awhile. It's still up in the air.
> 
> I have a feeling it will get scrapped though. If I had to guess, Kennedy will be allowed to finish Episode 9 and then will 'part ways' with the company and all of her projects will be scrapped. On that note, it's too bad as I think Rian Johnson would do better developing his own standalone story than by continuing someone elses.



It could happen, yeah. And who knows, his trilogy might have been good. But can't say I blame them for scrapping it though.

Btw, is the trilogy to be made by the GoT creators still happening?


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 21, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> the idea that people didn't watch solo because they didn't like TLJ is something you'd like to believe, not something there's any real proof for. the whole internet TLJ backlash phenomenon is one of those things where a group of people which is quite large in absolute terms - say, tens of thousands of people - but quite small compared to the worldwide audience of the star wars movies (many millions) feed each other's prejudices and nerd rage until they've convinced themselves that the wider public had the same opinion of TLJ that they did. but it grossed 1.33 billion and was the highest-grossing film of 2017, with random surveys of public audiences at cinemas - e.g. cinemascore, posttrak - finding that it was very well received
> 
> the internet campaign is just that: a campaign by a minority of people - who are mostly found on the internet - to try and change the idea most people have of how well it was received by vote brigading of user-rating areas on RT and metacritic. but that doesn't mean that normal people - as opposed to the kind of people who'd bother with this stuff - generally hated the film. it's well-received and well-liked
> 
> solo's problem was simply that nobody was interested in it, star wars or not. TLJ was offering something new, and even a prequel like rogue one was at least offering previously-unseen characters. solo was a retread, and it was a retread of something nobody really wanted to see - han solo before he became the cool guy everyone likes, when he was just a bumbling kid. they should never have greenlit it, and hopefully they've learned that they need to offer something new if they want people to give a shit


you say a vocal minority doesn't affect the numbers...but Battlefield 5 put some cyberpunk looking feminist soldier in their WW2 shooter and they are lagging behind their rival CoD in pre-orders by 85%.

why? they told their customers (who spoke up about it); "_Don't like it, don't buy it_."
and just because it's a vocal minority that expresses themselves online doesn't mean there isn't a silent majority that reinforces them with their wallets.

for its budget TLJ is the worst written PoS made in scifi; you can find a shit stain in every goddamned scene.

And people aren't as disconnected as they once were.
A company that sticks it to its customer base with predatory practices (or poor product quality) in one instance, will feel the backlash in its next outing. This ain't the fucking 90's; people spend half their lives online now...what the hell do you think they're reading about?


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## MartialHorror (Aug 21, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> It could happen, yeah. And who knows, his trilogy might have been good. But can't say I blame them for scrapping it though.
> 
> Btw, is the trilogy to be made by the GoT creators still happening?



I haven't heard anything about that yet. 



Suigetsu said:


> she will be out by the end of the lastest quarter. Why do you think she hasnt appeared at all?



That's a possibility too. The reason I think they'd wait until after Episode 9 is that 'firing' her is acknowledging failure, something a company like Disney does not like to do. If they stage it so it looks like they've parted ways amicably prior to Episode 9, it makes it look like there are problems with Episode 9 behind-the-scenes. Now it's possible that she's more-or-less been stripped of her power, but severing her now wouldn't be good PR for them and that's really what Disney is all about.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Aug 21, 2018)

The new trilogy being scrapped is so far nothing but a rumor that hasn't been reported by any reliable source. Nothing's been confirmed. Best to not jump to conclusions.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 21, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> That's a possibility too. The reason I think they'd wait until after Episode 9 is that 'firing' her is acknowledging failure, something a company like Disney does not like to do. If they stage it so it looks like they've parted ways amicably prior to Episode 9, it makes it look like there are problems with Episode 9 behind-the-scenes. Now it's possible that she's more-or-less been stripped of her power, but severing her now wouldn't be good PR for them and that's really what Disney is all about.



The shareholders are really upset, they have lost a lot of money because of her stupid shenanigans. All that matters is wait and see if she gets the boot by the end of the quarter or if they will really keep an asset that is costing them A LOT of money just for PR. Because yes, Disney and shareholders dont like bad PR, but you know what they hate even more? Loosing money.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 21, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> In your opinion.


nonsensical plot & character "development"  issues aside, it's mind boggling that people can't see how damaging this film was to the franchise...

it takes every question raised by the previous entry (which ends 5 minutes before this one begins) and wipes its ass with them...

all the while not bothering to raise a single question or point of interest of its own with which to pique its audience.

Rian Johnson is either incompetent or he hates Star Wars.


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## Gaiash (Aug 21, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> it takes every question raised by the previous entry (which ends 5 minutes before this one begins) and wipes its ass with them...


Provided fitting answers in my opinion. Especially the Rey's parents question where during my rewatch of The Force Awakens the day before The Last Jedi came out I thought about that question and felt that them not being anyone important was the answer that made the most sense.


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## Atlas (Aug 21, 2018)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> It could happen, yeah. And who knows, his trilogy might have been good. But can't say I blame them for scrapping it though.
> 
> Btw, is the trilogy to be made by the GoT creators still happening?



Boy, I hope not.


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## Gaiash (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang will you calm down already? Even when you're agreeing with people you're going on a rant. Maybe you need to take a break from these threads for a while, stop focusing on a movie you didn't like and think about things you do like.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

>rant

Sure thing DIDF.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Yeah Fang, you need to work on your temperament. The movie is a year old and your passion for it hasn't dimmed a bit. You need to move on with your life. Watch some "Carnosaur" movies.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

Boring.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 22, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Fang will you calm down already? Even when you're agreeing with people you're going on a rant. Maybe you need to take a break from these threads for a while, stop focusing on a movie you didn't like and think about things you do like.


its far too late to offer this sensible advice that might reach a normal person, like 10-15 years too late


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

Yeah sure thing Pajeet, coming from a zoomer who unrionically thinks he's hot shit. Laughable.

>normal person
>guy who defends TLJ to another guy who thought that Ghostbusters reboot was good


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Okay, I have to admit that I don't get this usage of ">". Is Fang insinuating that he>a normal person? Because that's one way of making yourself look like the douchiest person on the forum. Or is he the one who thinks the "Ghostbusters" reboot is good? 

Gosh darned kids and their internet speak! 

*Sigh* I remember when Fang used to be fun. But now it's just kind of sad watching him cry out for attention like this.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

Like I said before, you are boring.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> Like I said before, you are boring.



We get it Fang, you're 'edgy' for disliking these movies. But for someone who calls me 'boring', you haven't created an original post in like 3 months.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> We get it Fang, you're 'edgy' for disliking these movies. But for someone who calls me 'boring', you haven't created an original post in like 3 months.



Just like you haven't created an original bait-post in almost 10 months. 

Also lmao, "edgy".


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> Just like you haven't created an original bait-post in almost 10 months.
> 
> Also lmao, "edgy".



Hey, I joined in the criticisms against TLJ's choreography. I might like the movie, but I have no problems taking it to task for what I perceive to be its fuckups. You just ignore those contributions because they don't serve your narrative. 

Which is ultimately what it comes down to, isn't it? You have to paint Gaiash, Mider T or myself a certain way to justify your continued obsession over "TLJ". It's why you bother responding to me at all with posts like "You're boring". You do that a lot, but I get it, which is why unlike Gaiash, I just make cooing noises and call you adorable.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Hey, I joined in the criticisms against TLJ's choreography. I might like the movie, but I have no problems taking it to task for what I perceive to be its fuckups. You just ignore those contributions because they don't serve your narrative.



Don't deflect now from what you alleged, explain how anyone disliking TLJ is 'edgy' without semantics bullshit.



> Which is ultimately what it comes down to, isn't it? You have to paint Gaiash, Mider T or myself a certain way to justify your continued obsession over "TLJ".



What obsession? I'm going to comment on things because I want to, independent on what you think or want. Its a terrible movie and I'll comment on it as much as I want. I'm on an internet forum, not walking down ten street-block to shove my head into something here, all it takes is a couple strokes on a keyboard here, so don't insult either of our intelligence with this trash argument.

>Galash
What did I paint them as?
>Mider T
99% of his posts are shitposts in almost every section so...?

>you
I tried debating you as did others and you just stonewalled and baited to try and get me, Boner, UR, Es, Suigetsu, Pocky, etc...just off the top of my head, and others to flame you. You wouldn't even back off when I said I wasn't interested in talking to you specifically any more then launched personal attacks at me with the homo shit to the point I had to put you on ignore so I wouldn't get drawn in with more shit.



> It's why you bother responding to me at all with posts like "You're boring". You do that a lot, but I get it, which is why unlike Gaiash, I just make cooing noises and call you adorable.



Because you *are* boring? You repeat the same shtick over and over again. You haven't done anything new at all. Even Galash to his credit at least tried to debate me, Boner, and others. And there you go again proving my point with this obstinate shit.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> Don't deflect now from what you alleged, explain how anyone disliking TLJ is 'edgy' without semantics bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- It's not edgy to dislike TLJ, but you present yourself as such with your doggedness towards it and you're unnecessary hostility to everyone who disagrees with you...and in some cases, those who do agree with you.

- You can comment as much as you want. Won't change your obsession over the movie, especially as every point you make anymore are just rehashes of your past points. You sure you're not just copying and pasting?

- 99% of your posts are shitposts in almost every section too. There, I typed some words to fit my narrative.

- More typing to serve your narrative. You lost your shit when I said I wasn't impressed with Ewan McGregor's performance in the prequels. You got hostile. I responded in kind. In 'my' narrative, you grew hot headed, started making absurd points and then lost the battle.

- 'you repeat the same shtick over and over again' is not something I want to hear from you. I won't pretend that my posts are that much more diverse and I had to even scold myself for it when drawn into a debate a couple of days ago that I've been in a thousand times before. But I don't take the movie that seriously. I don't take myself that seriously and I don't take you that seriously. I post to entertain myself. You post to push your crusade. If I'm boring, then at least I can console myself knowing that you're boring with me.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> - It's not edgy to dislike TLJ, but you present yourself as such with your doggedness towards it



I don't see how that constitutes it being "edgy" to dislike TLJ. Maybe if the content of my hostility was based entirely around bashing Bogeya, Tram, and Ridley for their gender and ethnic heritage it'd be edgy, but I don't do anything of that sort.  And I'm not the only one whose "dogged" about it here among its detractors; Boner, Pocky, UR, Atlas, Suigetsu, etc...



> and you're unnecessary hostility to everyone who disagrees with you...and in some cases, those who do agree with you.



>unnecessarily*

I'm not, if you couldn't tell I was agreeing with everything Boner said. Otherwise feel free to point me having a conflict with people who agree with my views. I'll happily wait because you won't be able to do so.



> - You can comment as much as you want. Won't change your obsession over the movie, especially as every point you make anymore are just rehashes of your past points. You sure you're not just copying and pasting?



Why? Facts don't lie, so I can repeat them. It doesn't change the validity of the reality those things happen. Are you sure you aren't just getting upset that its a point I can freely hammer home time and time again to your discomfort?



> - 99% of your posts are shitposts in almost every section too. There, I typed some words to fit my narrative.



That's cute but you don't know Mider T like I do so ultimately irrelevant.



> - More typing to serve your narrative. You lost your shit when I said I wasn't impressed with Ewan McGregor's performance in the prequels. You got hostile. I responded in kind. In 'my' narrative, you grew hot headed, started making absurd points and then lost the battle.



Nah, any hostility happened when you kept doing the baiting shit like you did again in your last post and with that rep comment you sent me. That's your shtick. You get what you deserve, eye for an eye kind of stuff.



> - 'you repeat the same shtick over and over again' is not something I want to hear from you.



Sorry, but this is going pot to kettle here. Learn to live with it.


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## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> - The difference between you and them is that they aren't still here on a full time basis.



How would you know? 



> - Believe it or not Fang, there was a time when we were on reasonable terms and I always had to walk around eggshells around you as you'd snap if my opinions didn't mirror your own. My favorite Star Wars-thread related moment is still when Kamal wilted when you turned on him for speaking ill of the prequels.



Its funny you say and claim this because I don't have any issues with Kamal nor does he with me and both of us told you prior when you made this claim weeks before that we don't have problems with each other. So this sounds pretty much like an internalization you are inventing, dude. Either way I don't care, I've been on this site for years as if it wasn't obvious already from my join-date, if I come off aggressive, nothing I can do about that because that's my posting style.

Learn to accept it or whatever.



> - Every time you try to insinuate I'm being angered or uncomfortable, I just remember your temper tantrum that started our 'war'.



I just remember you trying to start shit with me. Fact you call it a war tells me you are taking this more personally than I am as well.



> I really don't care about your opinions on TLJ.



Cool, that doesn't bother me.



> I sometimes care when you throw around 'autistic' as some sort of base insult, especially in the presence of someone who has acknowledged being autistic.



I don't care about the feelings of faceless nameless people in the internet getting knee-jerk reactions because they hear or see words that bother them. It really doesn't matter to me in the least, if you care, good for you, I don't. I'll use words that I want to how I want to. Again, learn to live with it.



> I sometimes care that for all of your elitism, you keep resorting to cheap logical fallacies (like holding Gaiash's like the "Ghostbusters" reboot against him).



Can't be a fallacy because there was no formal debate there. If I call your opinion shit because you are "shit", in a debate, it'd be an ad hominem. If someone tries to poison the well, like ATM so infamously admitted multiple times when FilmLA and other sources were put up, then it'd be a fallacy. So, not accepting that.



> I sometimes care when you downplay the hatedom sometimes taking their rage too far. But I really don't care when you talk about the movies themselves.



Not really following what you are saying here. Gonna have to reword it because I can't get to what you are trying to say here, honestly.



> - That's true on MiderT...I don't know him...Jesus, does your guys wars extend beyond this section? How do you have time for this?



Nah, he just likes to shitpost a lot.



> - So you're sort of paying me a compliment? Because if I am baiting you, you keep taking the bite...and what have I gotten that I've deserved? The ire of Fang? A couple of neg reps from people like Suigetsu? I think I can live with that buddy.



I'm not paying you a compliment at all. If your posts were actually constructed in a way that weren't trying to antagonize me or others, don't even deny plenty of people completely oppose the things you and Galash and Sennin claim, this wouldn't be a huge issue. So good for you.



> I have and always will try to be friendly, cordial and respectful, even if we're at odds. I even try to get along with Kamal, whose political opinions disturb me far more than anything any one of you has said about a Star Wars movie. But you just want your crusade. If anyone does not share your opinions, then you'll dismiss them as idiots. When things get too intense and I try to lighten the mood, which you interpret as me being a troll. You need to simply settle down and not take a forum about an irrelevant anime so seriously.



I don't really get this because you are contradicting yourself in the very next line. "Don't take things seriously" but saying then more or less "Because then I have to take it seriously". It doesn't add up, dude. I've ripped on TLJ because it killed Star Wars for me, I didn't even like TFA and thought it was an uninspired rehash and had plenty of problems with Rogue One despite it being my favorite Disney made Star Wars film and TLJ had me do an almost complete 180 with TFA because of it. So yeah, I'll post here as much as I want because unlike others who are on "my side" to put it that way, I'll give reasons for my problems with everything with TLJ and what Disney is doing in general.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> Its funny you say and claim this because I don't have any issues with Kamal nor does he with me and both of us told you prior when you made this claim weeks before that we don't have problems with each other. So this sounds pretty much like an internalization you are inventing, dude. Either way I don't care, I've been on this site for years as if it wasn't obvious already from my join-date, if I come off aggressive, nothing I can do about that because that's my posting style.
> 
> Learn to accept it or whatever.



Not saying you have any issues between you. I'm referring to a specific incident...and why is it okay if you have an aggressive posting style, but I can't have my goofball posting style? 'Learn to accept it or whatever' indeed.



> I just remember you trying to start shit with me. Fact you call it a war tells me you are taking this more personally than I am as well.



I was going to call it a lovers quarrel, but was worried that you'd take it too seriously.



> Can't be a fallacy because there was no formal debate there. If I call your opinion shit because you are "shit", in a debate, it'd be an ad hominem. If someone tries to poison the well, like ATM so infamously admitted multiple times when FilmLA and other sources were put up, then it'd be a fallacy. So, not accepting that.



You fall back on it all the time...and what does it matter if he likes a bad movie anyway? Everyone will have movies that they like, that they think are underappreciated, etc and vice versa. You yourself seem to feel this way about the prequels. If he thinks "Ghostbusters" is good, how does that negate anything he has to say?




> Not really following what you are saying here. Gonna have to reword it because I can't get to what you are trying to say here, honestly.



When the actress who played Rose quit social media because of all the harassment she got, you downplayed it. When it was brought up that the kid who played Anakin was harassed, you downplayed it. You don't like to acknowledge that the Star Wars fandom has a dangerous toxic element to it.



> I don't really get this because you are contradicting yourself in the very next line. "Don't take things seriously" but saying then more or less "Because then I have to take it seriously". It doesn't add up, dude. I've ripped on TLJ because it killed Star Wars for me, I didn't even like TFA and thought it was an uninspired rehash and had plenty of problems with Rogue One despite it being my favorite Disney made Star Wars film and TLJ had me do an almost complete 180 with TFA because of it. So yeah, I'll post here as much as I want because unlike others who are on "my side" to put it that way, I'll give reasons for my problems with everything with TLJ and what Disney is doing in general.



I don't really get where the contradiction is. When do I say "Because then I have to take it seriously"? Look, we can have any disagreement and things can be fine. But if you're going to be a douche, then I'm either going to respond in kind or simply start viewing you as a clown, depending on my mood. Deal with it?

Maybe I am overly sensitive about this kind of conduct, but I have been harassed, cyber stalked and threatened over my opinions on movies in the past, so acting like an asshole because you're just dealing with 'faceless people on the internet' comes across as cowardly.


----------



## Fang (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Not saying you have any issues between you. I'm referring to a specific incident...



What incident?



> and why is it okay if you have an aggressive posting style, but I can't have my goofball posting style? 'Learn to accept it or whatever' indeed.



I'm pretty sure there's difference between fucking around, or being aggressive and serious on something, vs posting with a style intent to cause outright flaming.



> I was going to call it a lovers quarrel, but was worried that you'd take it too seriously.



Then I would just roll my eyes to be honest.



> You fall back on it all the time...and what does it matter if he likes a bad movie anyway? Everyone will have movies that they like, that they think are underappreciated, etc and vice versa. You yourself seem to feel this way about the prequels. If he thinks "Ghostbusters" is good, how does that negate anything he has to say?



Because everyone is going to fall back on picking apart and dissecting someone's opinions based off what they like and dislike. That's perfectly human nature. I don't care if someone has a different opinion on the Prequels or Sequels from me, but I do take issue when someone tries to invent a false narrative about why they do like or think its not bad. Case in point, with a certain poster getting upset when people kept posting flaws of the Sequels and particularly TLJ over and over because it bothered them.




> When the actress who played Rose quit social media because of all the harassment she got, you downplayed it. When it was brought up that the kid who played Anakin was harassed, you downplayed it. You don't like to acknowledge that the Star Wars fandom has a dangerous toxic element to it.



I didn't downplay anything. And even I did (which I didn't), that doesn't conflate to being edgy or ripping on the actors or actresses for being ethnic. I said the shit that happened with Jake Lloyd was terrible and I didn't agree with people targeting Tram with same attacks either if you had paid attention. The only thing I added as a caveat to that was that the "one thing" an actor or actress gives up when they take their craft is their privacy and ability to remain a private person, and they signed contracts for tens of millions of dollars to be in Star Wars movies and put them selves on social media websites where that shit has a high possibility of happening. 

Do you think when Leslie Jones got ripped on by Milo for the fact she is an ugly woman and he compared her to his black husband for her lack of feminity, that her seeing that comment on twitter with the hundreds of millions of dollars she has in her paychecks and bank accounts, ended with her breaking down in her fuck huge mansion? No. So I don't see how its downplaying. And as I recall and others pointed out, it was scary how this happened to jump off when every media and entertainment news group was focusing on how much Solo was flopping hard.



> I don't really get where the contradiction is.



Its pretty clear to me from what you said. I don't know how you don't get it.



> When do I say "Because then I have to take it seriously"? Look, we can have any disagreement and things can be fine. But if you're going to be a douche, then I'm either going to respond in kind or simply start viewing you as a clown, depending on my mood. Deal with it?



I'm going to be me, if I come off as an asshole I can't help that. Its how I've posted on here for over 12 years and I probably won't stop with that either. I can't change that facet about myself.



> Maybe I am overly sensitive about this kind of conduct, but I have been harassed, cyber stalked and threatened over my opinions on movies in the past, so acting like an asshole because you're just dealing with 'faceless people on the internet' comes across as cowardly.



I am completely desensitized to having much in the way of sympathy of people I don't personally know or have relations with built up over the years. I don't randomly go out of my way to spite people I don't know. And  I don't know who harassed, cyber-stalked, and threatened you for whatever opinions you had but ribbing and bantering on the internet is something that happens to everyone here. I don't see how that makes one a specific asshole either way in that regards.

People are going to insult, shit talk, and banter on each other, its a way of the internet.


----------



## Suigetsu (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> *
> 
> I just remember you trying to start shit with me. Fact you call it a war tells me you are taking this more personally than I am as well.*
> 
> .




I am glad I wasnt the only one that noticed this 

BTW I still remember how I told sennien that trevorrow was a hack, he got upset at me. And then trevorrow proceeded to get dumped from starwars and produce/write "Jurassic Hack, Hacked Kingdom.


----------



## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Fang said:


> What incident?



He was talking smack about the prequels. You turned on him and he practically sputtered all over himself backtracking.



> I'm pretty sure there's difference between fucking around, or being aggressive and serious on something, vs posting with a style intent to cause outright flaming.



So are you trying to say that...you can't tell that difference? 



> I didn't downplay anything. And even I did (which I didn't), that doesn't conflate to being edgy or ripping on the actors or actresses for being ethnic. I said the shit that happened with Jake Lloyd was terrible and I didn't agree with people targeting Tram with same attacks either if you had paid attention. The only thing I added as a caveat to that was that the "one thing" an actor or actress gives up when they take their craft is their privacy and ability to remain a private person, and they signed contracts for tens of millions of dollars to be in Star Wars movies and put them selves on social media websites where that shit has a high possibility of happening.
> 
> Do you think when Leslie Jones got ripped on by Milo for the fact she is an ugly woman and he compared her to his black husband for her lack of feminity, that her seeing that comment on twitter with the hundreds of millions of dollars she has in her paychecks and bank accounts, ended with her breaking down in her fuck huge mansion? No. So I don't see how its downplaying. And as I recall and others pointed out, it was scary how this happened to jump off when every media and entertainment news group was focusing on how much Solo was flopping hard.



When the Tram story broke, you're insisted that it was a marketing play, that Tram was overreacting and that she needs to grow thicker skin. At no point did you ever take anyone else to task over it. When Jake Lloyd was brought up, you emphasized how it was just a few people.



> I'm going to be me, if I come off as an asshole I can't help that. Its how I've posted on here for over 12 years and I probably won't stop with that either. I can't change that facet about myself.
> 
> I am completely desensitized to having much in the way of sympathy of people I don't personally know or have relations with built up over the years. I don't randomly go out of my way to spite people I don't know. And  I don't know who harassed, cyber-stalked, and threatened you for whatever opinions you had but ribbing and bantering on the internet is something that happens to everyone here. I don't see how that makes one a specific asshole either way in that regards.
> 
> People are going to insult, shit talk, and banter on each other, its a way of the internet.



If that's you, that's you...and if I'm me, then I'm me, I guess?

Although talking trash anonymously is something I expect from soy boys. Speaking of which...



Suigetsu said:


> I am glad I wasnt the only one that noticed this :heston



The thing is Soygetsu, you and I were having a fine debate until you started making it personal. You are more interested in getting a reaction out of people than in the topic itself. But to your credit, you are the only person here who made me angry. You can't debate worth shit, but you can troll like a master.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The thing is Soygetsu, you and I were having a fine debate until you started making it personal. You are more interested in getting a reaction out of people than in the topic itself. But to your credit, you are the only person here who made me angry. You can't debate worth shit, but you can troll like a master.


Nah, you killed my patience and started going into loop holes. I started to call you silly, because you where clearly wasting my time cause there is absolutely no way someone can be that clueless but now thanks to @Fang  it turns out I wasnt the only one that noticed your petty "debate style" And yes, the stench of you being upset about it could be smelled from miles away.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 22, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Nah, you killed my patience and started going into loop holes. I started to call you silly, because you where clearly wasting my time cause there is absolutely no way someone can be that clueless but now thanks to @Fang  it turns out I wasnt the only one that noticed your petty "debate style" And yes, the stench of you being upset about it could be smelled from miles away.



Interesting way of saying you lost that debate.


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## Suigetsu (Aug 22, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Interesting way of saying you lost that debate.


Are you trying to bait again?
Such is the way of the looser.


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## MartialHorror (Aug 23, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Are you trying to bait again?
> Such is the way of the looser.



No, not at all. I've just...already accepted your concession...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Aug 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> He was talking smack about the prequels. You turned on him and he practically sputtered all over himself backtracking.



I still don't remember any fall out or huge issues between me and him. Are you sure you aren't exaggerating here?



> So are you trying to say that...you can't tell that difference



No? If you paid attention you could see I'm saying the literal opposite of that. 



> When the Tram story broke, you're insisted that it was a marketing play, that Tram was overreacting and that she needs to grow thicker skin. At no point did you ever take anyone else to task over it. When Jake Lloyd was brought up, you emphasized how it was just a few people.



That's not fully true, dude, and you know that.

I said, as did *several others *that it was very curious how the Tram bullying incident where she left Instagram happened right when the fallout and coverage on Solo's bombing at the box office was in full swing. Then I brought up how either way I didn't agree with her being targeted because as much as I hated Rose Tico, Tram's character, I had no issue with the actress herself and sympathized with her the same way I did with Jake Lloyd having his life turned to a living hell by some deranged diehard fans blaming him for how Anakin's origins were shown in Episode I. 



> If that's you, that's you...and if I'm me, then I'm me, I guess?
> 
> Although talking trash anonymously is something I expect from soy boys. Speaking of which...



I'm saying I'm going to me yeah. If I come off aggressive or antagonistic, that's just who I am. I can't really modulate or change that, what more can I add here?


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## MartialHorror (Aug 23, 2018)

Fang said:


> I still don't remember any fall out or huge issues between me and him. Are you sure you aren't exaggerating here?



I wouldn't call it a fallout, as he quickly conceded. It probably wasn't a huge issue to you. At the time, I was more taken aback by Kamal deflating on the subject than you bearing your fangs at him...(and I swear I did mean to make that pun)...



> That's not fully true, dude, and you know that.
> 
> I said, as did *several others *that it was very curious how the Tram bullying incident where she left Instagram happened right when the fallout and coverage on Solo's bombing at the box office was in full swing. Then I brought up how either way I didn't agree with her being targeted because as much as I hated Rose Tico, Tram's character, I had no issue with the actress herself and sympathized with her the same way I did with Jake Lloyd having his life turned to a living hell by some deranged diehard fans blaming him for how Anakin's origins were shown in Episode I.



I actually went back to look it up to see if I missed something and all I could find was you insisting that it was a marketing tactic by Disney. So if I 'know that', it's only from your most recent post.





> I'm saying I'm going to me yeah. If I come off aggressive or antagonistic, that's just who I am. I can't really modulate or change that, what more can I add here?



Not much...and if I come across as silly, that's just who I am. Anyway, I'm off to bed. Nighty night.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> The thing is Soygetsu, you and I were having a fine debate until you started making it personal. You are more interested in getting a reaction out of people than in the topic itself.



> Whining about Suigetsu making it personal
> Using derorgatory terms to keep baiting him

Ayyyyy lmao


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## MartialHorror (Aug 23, 2018)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> > Whining about Suigetsu making it personal
> > Using detorgery terms to keep baiting him
> 
> Ayyyyy lmao



What does 'detorgery' mean?


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## Gaiash (Aug 23, 2018)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> > Whining about Suigetsu making it personal
> > Using detorgery terms to keep baiting him
> 
> Ayyyyy lmao


The Soygetsu thing is because Suigetsu was frequently putting the word soy in words as some kind of "insult" at one point.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 23, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The Soygetsu thing is because Suigetsu was frequently putting the word soy in words as some kind of "insult" at one point.


so hes alt right

well that makes sense i guess


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## Fang (Aug 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I wouldn't call it a fallout, as he quickly conceded. It probably wasn't a huge issue to you. At the time, I was more taken aback by Kamal deflating on the subject than you bearing your fangs at him...(and I swear I did mean to make that pun)...



I'm still not seeing it. All you seemed to do was jump again and accuse me on "turning" against Kamal because we disagreed to something and neither of us paid attention to that.



> I actually went back to look it up to see if I missed something and all I could find was you insisting that it was a marketing tactic by Disney. So if I 'know that', it's only from your most recent post.



Link isn't working. Either way I said what I said, I don't trust the fact she started getting "bullied" on social media when shit went down with Solo.



Lucaniel said:


> so hes alt right
> 
> well that makes sense i guess



You don't know even what the alt-right is.


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## The Runner (Aug 23, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> so hes alt right
> 
> well that makes sense i guess


>is alt-right
>for using soy as an insult


lol what?  pretty sure those types of insults were done by some fuckboys in reddit


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## Lucaniel (Aug 23, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> >is alt-right
> >for using soy as an insult
> 
> 
> lol what?  pretty sure those types of insults were done by some fuckboys in reddit


in the alt-right subs, specifically.


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## Fang (Aug 23, 2018)

What a fucking stupid article


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## The Runner (Aug 23, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> in the alt-right subs, specifically.


Insulting somebody’s masculinity isn’t something solely attributed to some fuckbois afraid of Jews.

Bernie Bros do that shit too

It was a meme insult that got old like memes do.


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## Kuromaku (Aug 23, 2018)

Eh, it's more a -chan thing at this point to use those terms. The problem with a lot of these media attempts to define vague drawn groups like the alt-right is that there's often a lot of intersection with image board culture, wherein a lot of these terms are coined and used by all sorts of posters. If anything, a lot of these public uses by the alt-right indicates that said members of that political allegiance don't know how to separate the language of the boards from public life and websites where posters actually have names attached to them. It's the equivalent of that kid who uses terms from their secret club in public and winds up embarrassing themselves.

So if anything, you should be shaking your head at people using image board language in the wrong context. Speaking of which, why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.

To get back on topic though, anyone want to discuss how prequel critics like RLM managed to find themselves in a monkey's paw situation with the Disney made sequels?


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## The Runner (Aug 23, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Eh, it's more a -chan thing at this point to use those terms.


Even there is a dead meme. It’s been used by whoever to attack somebody’s masculinity before and now. It’s definitely not some indicative of their preference for a white ethnostate



Kuromaku said:


> Speaking of which, why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.


 it’s fun?


I find it stranger that you aren’t even quoting or @ing me when you order me around like this. Kinda hypocritical coming somebody lecturing another person over not using the site’s tools properly


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## MartialHorror (Aug 23, 2018)

Okay, can somebody please explain to me how this >*insert statement* thing works? 



Kuromaku said:


> To get back on topic though, anyone want to discuss how prequel critics like RLM managed to find themselves in a monkey's paw situation with the Disney made sequels?



How so? I thought the prequels sucked and I think the new ones are fine. For me, it's easy, as my issue with the prequels wasn't with the direction of the characters or story, but with the technical stuff, such as...

- Bad acting, as everyone looks bored and uncomfortable with the dialogue. They also seem unsure what they're supposed to be looking at a lot of the time, possibly because digital filmmaking was still new. I'm actually one of the only people who doesn't think Jake Lloyd was the worst part of TPM, because he's the only one who looks like he's having fun. 

- amazingly bad dialogue. The new movies have their own groan inducing lines as well, but the line "That's so Wizard, Ani" is in my head...and will never get out. I can't quote a single bad line from the new films without either paraphrasing or looking it up...although admittedly, I can't quote a single good line from the new films either. 

- boring direction and cinematography. Just watch the pod racing seen and pay attention to how many times they reuse the same 2nd unit shots...and it goes on forever. 

- Too much CGI that not only has aged poorly, but clutters the screen so much that you can't really pay attention to all of it.

- The tone. Qui Gon's death should be an emotionally charged moment, but it's undercut by Jar Jar's goofy antics. 

But it all comes down to why they hate the prequels and why they don't hate the new films.


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## Gaiash (Aug 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, can somebody please explain to me how this >*insert statement* thing works?


Looks like 4chan green text to me.
>using green text on a Naruto board


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## MartialHorror (Aug 23, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Looks like 4chan green text to me.
> >using green text on a Naruto board



Sounds really stupid.

Why does the Star Wars hatedom love 4-Chan?


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 23, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, can somebody please explain to me how this >*insert statement* thing works?


it's oft used as a bullet point style way to tell a short or long story; for example:


> > No clean underwear this morning
> > Went commando all day
> > mfw My jeans were made in a Chinese sweat shop by a -woman-
> > Woman used hands to make jeans
> ...




ya get it grandpa?


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## Kuromaku (Aug 23, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> it’s fun?
> 
> I find it stranger that you aren’t even quoting or @ing me when you order me around like this. Kinda hypocritical coming somebody lecturing another person over not using the site’s tools properly



Is this bait? The vocabulary and syntax of image board style posts doesn't necessarily translate to other kinds of boards. It'd be the equivalent of me responding to you with a "this is going into my cringe compilation" image, which is basically taking an in-joke and killing it by spreading it to people (read: normies) who don't understand the context. The site design of NF is different enough, and we all have names attached to our posts, so naturally, the posting style here is completely different.



MartialHorror said:


> How so? I thought the prequels sucked and I think the new ones are fine. For me, it's easy, as my issue with the prequels wasn't with the direction of the characters or story, but with the technical stuff, such as...



RLM have made it clear that they're not fans of the increasingly corporate nature of the franchise and how the aforementioned corporation co-opts the fandom. That, and the fact that the new films are often pandering mediocrities, like the Marvel movies as made with less vision and skill. It's even worse that the franchise is even more self-cannibalizing, as where Lucas tried to reference other works that inspired him, at times, you get the sense that the new movies are simply referencing the old ones instead of doing one of the things that really defined Star Wars: taking something older and reworking it so that it feels new, resulting in a saga made up of pre-existing parts that have taken a life of their own, a sort of pseudo-postmodern blockbuster.



> - amazingly bad dialogue. The new movies have their own groan inducing lines as well, but the line "That's so Wizard, Ani" is in my head...and will never get out. I can't quote a single bad line from the new films without either paraphrasing or looking it up...although admittedly, I can't quote a single good line from the new films either



Lines like that are par for the course in the franchise, which was created by a guy who loved his old time Flash Gordon serials. The problem with the new bad lines is that they're written less like an earnest attempt by an old guy trying to relive his childhood and more like some hack screenwriter trying to insert corporate-enforced attempts at humor, hence things like Poe's oddly included prank phone call in TLJ and wannabe Joss Whedon smartassery in the opening of TFA.



> boring direction and cinematography. Just watch the pod racing seen and pay attention to how many times they reuse the same 2nd unit shots...and it goes on forever.



The problem with the new films is that while the camera work is much more dynamic, it comes with its own share of issues. A rather prominent example is the closing shot of TFA, which for some inexplicable reason has the camera spinning around the two characters. It's a distracting shot that just looks awkward, and to be honest violates one of the unwritten rules of the franchise, which is to end each movie with a wide shot that could be a painting in itself, resulting in something aesthetically pleasing while also signalling to the audience that the ride is over and leaving them with a final impression. Look at the endings of each of the previous films, and note what shot they all end with.



> Too much CGI that not only has aged poorly, but clutters the screen so much that you can't really pay attention to all of it.



The real flaw is the clutter ("it's so dense"), but CGI by its very nature doesn't age well (look at older Pixar films or anything 3D Disney has done and see how the visuals have aged compared to 2D work).



> The tone. Qui Gon's death should be an emotionally charged moment, but it's undercut by Jar Jar's goofy antics



A problem that has returned even though Lucas has not. The new Disney films have tried to follow the Marvel formula, but that has often resulted in tone breakages, not helped at all by creative decisions where the heroes come off as incompetent and the villains just plain bumbling, meaning that there's no sense of tension whatsoever. TFA did fine with its tone for the most part, but TLJ has some real issues.

We have Luke tossing away the lightsaber, which I'm not sure whether is meant to be dramatic or comedic. I remember my mother going "what?" when she saw that, and honestly, if they wanted to convey Luke being reluctant to get back into the saddle, they could have done something else entirely like maybe pausing for a while before he refuses to take the weapon from Rey's hand.

Then, we get a sudden battle against the First Order fleet, which suffers from a similar problem to other films that open up with a huge battle: they don't do a good job of building up to it. Look at _Saving Private Ryan_, which takes its time getting you to meet the characters with brief glances at them and building tension up to the D-Day landings. It basically forces you not to breathe before things take a turn for the insane. In TLJ, we get Poe making a prank phone call that isn't funny at all and only makes the FO look like idiots. How are we supposed to take this seriously? Not only that, but it only takes one ace pilot to neutralize the defenses of a sizeable warship. Who the hell needs warships then? Then we get a battle where the Resistance bombers move inexplicably slowly despite previous movies showing even heavy bombardiers moving with some haste.

These are just two prominent examples.


----------



## The Runner (Aug 24, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Is this bait?


No.

I wasn’t even arguing over the usage of imageboard humor in the first place, if you haven’t noticed.

My arguments were over the fact that soyboy wasn’t indicative of somebody’s political allegiances...

And that your criticism of somebody using a greentext format from 4chan due to not using the forum tools properly is hypocritical when you weren’t using it properly either. So this high and mighty attitude isn’t exactly earned.


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## Kuromaku (Aug 24, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> No.
> 
> I wasn’t even arguing over the usage of imageboard humor in the first place, if you haven’t noticed.
> 
> ...



I'd like to point out that I never said anything about political allegiances having anything to do with image board vocabulary, merely an observation that some individuals for some reason feel the need to take the terms out of their proper place and use it in the public sphere.

How is it hypocritical when I never used green text on this site? It'd only be hypocritical if I used either the vocabulary or syntax of an image board on this site without irony despite having pointed out why it doesn't work.


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## The Runner (Aug 24, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> I'd like to point out that I never said anything about political allegiances having anything to do with image board vocabulary, merely an observation that some individuals for some reason feel the need to take the terms out of their proper place and use it in the public sphere.


I never accused you of doing so (the political shit)

I just stated what my arguments were. One was directed towards @Lucaniel for thinking that using some general insult indicated they were alt-right, just because he associates that word as channer lingo. And the other was directed at _you. 
_
Mostly this was to drive the point home that you weren’t actually talking to me, considering you just went on with your unrelated argument of using imageboard humor despite the fact I never argued that.


Kuromaku said:


> How is it hypocritical when I never used green text on this site? It'd only be hypocritical if I used either the vocabulary or syntax of an image board on this site without irony despite having pointed out why it doesn't work.


It’s hypocritical because it’s the same sentiment.

To order a guy to use the tools the site gives you...

...all the while not even using the tools yourself to properly reply to the person you’re talking to.


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## Kuromaku (Aug 24, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Mostly this was to drive the point home that you weren’t actually talking to me, considering you just went on with your unrelated argument of using imageboard humor despite the fact I never argued that.
> 
> It’s hypocritical because it’s the same sentiment.
> 
> ...



Except I wasn't talking to the posters using ">" to simulate green text. I was making a comment, the same way you'd make a comment when walking down the street and seeing a dude dressed in a tutu with a swan's head for a cod piece. You might say something like "well that's an odd thing to wear" or "why would anyone wear that?", with it being understood that this isn't aimed at anyone as a source for conversation in particular, but as an observation.


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## The Runner (Aug 24, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Except I wasn't talking to the posters using ">" to simulate green text.





Kuromaku said:


> Speaking of which, why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.


 ^^


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## Lucaniel (Aug 24, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> just because he associates that word as channer lingo.


no
already gave you the rationale


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## The Runner (Aug 24, 2018)

Lucaniel said:


> no
> already gave you the rationale


Sorry 

Alt right lingo 

Which is less reasonable tbh


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## Fang (Aug 24, 2018)

Like I said before, this argument over a fucking meme term is retarded.


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## Kuromaku (Aug 24, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> ^^



Your point being? I did just explain the comment above, did I not?


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## The Runner (Aug 24, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Your point being? I did just explain the comment above, did I not?


Terribly. Observations don’t include ordering people around. Especially when you’re a hypocrite about it


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 24, 2018)

guys guys, you're getting off track here...
This thread is about how people should feel bad for having degenerate tastes in movies, specifically TLJ.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 24, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Which is less reasonable tbh


it's perfectly reasonable, as you can see in the article


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## Kuromaku (Aug 25, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> Terribly. Observations don’t include ordering people around. Especially when you’re a hypocrite about it



How was I ordering people around? How was I being a hypocrite? Is English your first language, because I'm having trouble seeing how you managed to misinterpret my previous posts to this extent.

Who wants to talk about how badly Disney has mismanaged the Star Wars brand thus far?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Nobody cares about the movie anymore.
> 
> Now this thread exists to settle grievances between NF posters.


GTFO. I bet  websites get solid cliks for mentionning Disney Star Wars still. Why wouldn't they?


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## The Runner (Aug 25, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> How was I ordering people around?



You can’t be this dishonest.


Kuromaku said:


> I'm having trouble seeing how you managed to misinterpret my previous posts to this extent.


This is the best you can do?

Here’s YOUR quote again


Kuromaku said:


> why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.



This isn’t up for interpretation. This is you telling people what to do. Atleast have some dignity and admit when you’re wrong.

I’m done for now. This is getting ridiculous.


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## reiatsuflow (Aug 25, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> I’m done for now. This is getting ridiculous.



What mark hamill should have said halfway into production.


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## Kuromaku (Aug 25, 2018)

Sir Jogga said:


> This isn’t up for interpretation. This is you telling people what to do. Atleast have some dignity and admit when you’re wrong.
> 
> I’m done for now. This is getting ridiculous.



Wow. Just wow. Way to reinterpret what I wrote and put words in my mouth. And then trying to stand on the moral high ground like you are doing.



> So if anything, you should be shaking your head at people using image board language in the wrong context. Speaking of which, why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.



Somehow the above is me giving orders. Somehow, this is me ordering people around. Let's take a look at this, shall we?

Now first, context: note how I was pointing out the ridiculousness of people doing what they were doing. Then, to add to the rhetoric of the previous statement, I then say



> Speaking of which, why would you try to green text on this site? Just use the list options.



Thus, I point out the silliness of using green text format on a site where said format doesn't actually work that way. In short, the format has been robbed of its proper place, and thus lacks the power it would have otherwise. I continue my observation by pithily pointing out the obvious alternative:



> Just use the list options.



Is that an order? No. In fact, anyone with a basic understanding of spoken English would recognize that. Am I asserting myself as a master to be obeyed? No, I'm acting as a bystander with a smart-alecky attitude.

If you're planning on coming back to me with those claims, come back with one that actually would stand up in a court of law if actually argued in a real case, because an argument of that quality is what it would take to prove me a liar. Otherwise, I suggest you apologize for being needlessly antagonistic over a misinterpretation of a statement.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 25, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Nobody cares about the movie anymore.
> 
> Now this thread exists to settle grievances between NF posters.





Kuromaku said:


> Wow. Just wow. Way to reinterpret what I wrote and put words in my mouth. And then trying to stand on the moral high ground like you are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


heh heh heh


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## Fang (Aug 25, 2018)

Dumb


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## MartialHorror (Aug 25, 2018)

While we're at it, I got some beef with reaitsuflow. 

I don't like your avatar.


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## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Aug 28, 2018)

.... I don't know what to expect


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## Gaiash (Aug 28, 2018)

Of course RLM made another nitpick about Star Wars video, that's the only reason anyone knows who they are.


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 28, 2018)

Regardless of what they say the movie is bad. I don't need them to tell me.

I know people now are easily distracted by big budgets and pretty looking effects; but the script being amateurish is undeniable.


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## Fang (Aug 28, 2018)

RAGING BONER said:


> Regardless of what they say the movie is bad. I don't need them to tell me.
> 
> I know people now are easily distracted by big budgets and pretty looking effects; but the script being amateurish is undeniable.



Amateurish is putting it mildly though I think this latest video is them trying to recover from still getting a lot of flak for their double standards on shitting Rogue One while giving TFA a free pass for the same shit


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## RAGING BONER (Aug 28, 2018)

Fang said:


> Amateurish is putting it mildly though I think this latest video is them trying to recover from still getting a lot of flak for their double standards on shitting Rogue One while giving TFA a free pass for the same shit


normally I'd agree; but they don't seem to care as much about their YTube popularity as most other movie critics...
Even so, after watching the vid they bring up several points I'd overlooked (there's just too much nonsensical bullshit in this movie to keep track of it all); all while trying to remain as "positive" about what RJ was trying to deliver.

Frankly, while I feel they shoulda torn into it with a spiked dildo...everyone online _has_ already done so.


Gaiash said:


> Yet here I am saying the script was great and one of the biggest strengths of the film.



well, I'd expect nothing less...

and if you really _did_ like Ghostbusters 2016? 

then, just wow


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## Kuromaku (Aug 28, 2018)

The script was one of the worst things about the movie. The cinematography was nice, the effects were good, and the actors were trying to varying degrees of success. If anything though the script was the biggest issue, bar none, and anyone who knows about writing could see that (personally though, the editing could also get wonky at times, just look at the oddly timed cuts in the first act).

I thought that they were trying to be even handed about the whole thing. Yeah, there's a lot to criticize in a movie that will probably not age well, but all the same, they can at least appreciate that RJ did try to do his own thing, even if what he did was not executed all that well. Still, based on the tone of the video and their comments elsewhere, it's pretty clear that RLM is pretty tired of _Star Wars_ as a whole and just wants to move on to other things.

Because the video was so short compared to their other Plinkett reviews, the nitpicks stood out more whereas in others they formed a smaller part of the whole, but when Mike did get into the meatier issues that weren't a retread of what others have already said time and again (although contrasting Holdo with Picard was a nice touch), it showed that they still haven't lost their touch for noticing things that a knowledgeable filmmaker would recognize.


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## reiatsuflow (Aug 29, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> While we're at it, I got some beef with reaitsuflow.
> 
> I don't like your avatar.



Well here's what I think of you.

+likes horror movies
+likes godzilla
-has a negative attitude

I don't know what's more destructive, atomic breath or my truth bomb.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 29, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Yet here I am saying the script was great and one of the biggest strengths of the film.


Get a 12 year old who likes SW and have script doctor  write the dialogue and  it will be better.


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## Gaiash (Aug 29, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Get a 12 year old who likes SW and have script doctor  write the dialogue and  it will be better.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Aug 29, 2018)

Insert my generic comment about how much I hate TLJ to the point of it being predictable.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 29, 2018)




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## Banhammer (Aug 29, 2018)

I've said this a lot, but my headcanon for this movie that I didn't watch is still that Luke Skywalker was so griefstricken from the events of 3.5 that he ran to a deserted Island where his amazing powers could be reigned back in control, lest he accidentally throw supernovas around at innocent people out of pain, and every time a new video comes out that doesn't say that it was what happened, I go rub my skull in magnets until I forget that, and believe my original theory again

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Aug 29, 2018)

reiatsuflow said:


> Well here's what I think of you.
> 
> +likes horror movies
> +likes godzilla
> ...



NOOOOO! I'VE BEEN DEFEATED!


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## ~VK~ (Aug 31, 2018)

Damn this thread was cancer.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Aug 31, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> Damn this thread was cancer.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 3, 2018)

Absolute must-watch. Brilliant analysis and exploration of why this movie has garnered so much ire from certain subsections of the fanbase.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Sep 3, 2018)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Absolute must-watch. Brilliant analysis and exploration of why this movie has garnered so much ire from certain subsections of the fanbase.


More like a half of a section.


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## Kuromaku (Sep 3, 2018)

Just watched the video, and honestly, it falls into the same trap a lot of the film's defenders do: they reduce the opposition to a strawman (note that rather than acknowledge where the film is flawed early in the video, the creator merely says that it was not a perfect film, thus situation themselves as a seemingly objective observer when the reality is that it's the equivalent of a racist who says "now I'm no racist, but...") rather than taking on the arguments against the film proper. You can see this in how he frames a large amount of critics as misogynists, thus poisoning the well beforehand (if he'd wanted to do this more effectively, he might have laid out his points, and then implied it at the very end).

Not only that, but while he rightly criticizes Poe's actions in the first act (which gets a lot of pilots killed), he goes in the wrong direction with the criticism of Holdo. Rather than accept that Holdo's character was written in reverse, where she acts as an obstacle with good intentions but only comes off as an incompetent catalyst for an idiot plot, he simply focuses on Poe's behavior, when the criticism of the plot line had a lot to do with the character of Holdo and her illogical actions.

Then, when he gets to Rose, he communicates what was intended with the character but fails to understand an important point of storytelling and communication in general: it's not what you say, but how you say it. Rose has something important to say, but how it is handled is clumsy to say the least, and rather than trying to refute this, he lazily assumes his righteousness in this regard. Honestly, it calls to mind all those people who praised _The Legend of Korra_ for bringing up what they felt were more adult themes, yet conveniently failed to discuss whether those themes were tackled with the care  they deserved.

The part with Rey is better, although if anything, Rey didn't quite have much of an effect on Luke. The subversion there, I'd argue, is that Luke needed to find it within himself to be the man he always was rather than being inspired by a plucky young protagonist, and he visibly grows back into this after interacting with R2, reaching out to Leia, and having an important talk with Yoda.

It's a video by a pseudo-intellectual with a computer for idiots who accept everything he says at face value and idiots like me who decide to watch it out of curiosity about what insights he might have had to offer instead of taking a look at what kinds of videos he produces beforehand. There, I just saved you 20 plus minutes. If you'd like to verify what I wrote, use the transcript option on Youtube to get through the video's content more quickly while checking what is said.

Again, the irony is that I didn't even hate the movie and still don't (I just thought it was below average). You need to be a much worse movie to get that sort of reaction from me. I won't lie though, a lot of the arguments used to defend it in the public sphere are reminiscent of defenders of the prequels and Zack Snyder superhero films.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Sep 3, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Just watched the video, and honestly, it falls into the same trap a lot of the film's defenders do: they reduce the opposition to a strawman (note that rather than acknowledge where the film is flawed early in the video, the creator merely says that it was not a perfect film, thus situation themselves as a seemingly objective observer when the reality is that it's the equivalent of a racist who says "now I'm no racist, but...") rather than taking on the arguments against the film proper. You can see this in how he frames a large amount of critics as misogynists, thus poisoning the well beforehand (if he'd wanted to do this more effectively, he might have laid out his points, and then implied it at the very end).
> 
> Not only that, but while he rightly criticizes Poe's actions in the first act (which gets a lot of pilots killed), he goes in the wrong direction with the criticism of Holdo. Rather than accept that Holdo's character was written in reverse, where she acts as an obstacle with good intentions but only comes off as an incompetent catalyst for an idiot plot, he simply focuses on Poe's behavior, when the criticism of the plot line had a lot to do with the character of Holdo and her illogical actions.
> 
> ...



It's a video by a pseudo-intellectual

They can produce some bs also. Don't have to be fake.


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 3, 2018)

yeah, it's women and minorities in the movie..._that's_ why people hate it. Sure thing 

It couldn't _possibly_ be that it was a shit riddled, garbage script with unlikable, poorly written characters that had nothing but cringe dialogue meant to appeal to mental midgets.

No sir, it was definitely the women and the "coloreds".

Reactions: Like 2


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## MartialHorror (Sep 3, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Just watched the video, and honestly, it falls into the same trap a lot of the film's defenders do: they reduce the opposition to a strawman (note that rather than acknowledge where the film is flawed early in the video, the creator merely says that it was not a perfect film, thus situation themselves as a seemingly objective observer when the reality is that it's the equivalent of a racist who says "now I'm no racist, but...") rather than taking on the arguments against the film proper. You can see this in how he frames a large amount of critics as misogynists, thus poisoning the well beforehand (if he'd wanted to do this more effectively, he might have laid out his points, and then implied it at the very end).
> 
> .



For what it's worth, it's difficult to talk about either side without resorting to the Straw Man. I don't know if it's because Star Wars inspires more of an emotional reaction out of people, but according to a lot of people from both sides, this is a battle between Social Justice Warriors and Misogynistic Racists. I don't think you can get a page through this forum without one of those being implied. 

Someone sent me the video, but I've yet to watch it. I also haven't seen the RLM video. I'm just kind of burned out from everything Star Wars related right now, lol. 

My main defense of TLJ is simply that it's the only Star Wars movie that left me unsure what would happen next...which also might be why most of the critics favored it. I see far too many movies, so I can usually predict what's going to happen in them...from the trailer...Some have said that it's simply shallow subversion and there's no depth to it, but that doesn't bother me because Star Wars was never deep. When it comes down to it though, I simply had a strong emotional reaction to it. I don't feel the need to defend the sloppy choreography, bad dialogue or clumsy narrative choices, because 'FOR ME', they were upstaged by what I liked about it...although I do think detractors tend to blow the flaws up out of proportion. But I guess everyone has an opinion.


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## MartialHorror (Sep 3, 2018)

Alright, I watched the video and here are my thoughts.

1) He explicitly says the video in response to those who dislike the movie for specific reasons, not just those who dislike the movie. He's not saying that all who dislike it are misogynists or hate the feminist agenda. Raging Boner, you need new material. 

2) I do like how he talks about how the way the destruction of the dreadnaught was framed. That might seem like a small thing, but that ultimately foreshadows how this isn't going to be your normal Star Wars story, so it makes for a good talking point.

3) The problem with bringing up the gender politics of the movie is that it's not consistent. He points out Finn's failures, but why are people forgetting that Rose was there too? Poe never had any issue with respecting 'women in power', as he respected Leia. He would've still been a hot head under a male General. Finally, people don't take issue with Holdo because she was unflinchingly harsh in teaching Poe a lesson. People generally dislike her because she was doing this at the absolute worst, possible time.

4) Did people really take an issue with Rose interrupting Finn's intended sacrifice? It seems to me that people only had an issue with the method (crashing the ship into his) or the subsequent dialogue.

As for what I thought overall, the video makes some good points, but also sometimes makes unnecessary points. Rose being a 'moral authority' isn't that big of a deal because women are usually the 'moral authorities' in movies, including the ones where the males are heroes. How many times have we seen the hardened assassin change his ways because of the love of a good woman?

I do agree about Luke's character flaws being present in the OT and I do think there are quite a few people...even on this forum...who are triggered by female leads/women in authority. But once again, why does the video limit itself to gender politics? Why not go into how Snoke's death defied expectations? Or Rey's failure to redeem Kylo Ren? He briefly mentions the latter, but those are the areas that I think are worthier of discussion.


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## MartialHorror (Sep 3, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> I found that part rather disingenuous though because, as mentioned before, it reduces the opposition to a strawman while also being an attempt at creating an image of objectivity. The problem is that his wording rings false given that he states that a sizeable contingent of critics are those who fit into the category of folks whose arguments he tries to counter. It's not helped that a lot of his counterarguments, as you point out, are heavily flawed and miss the point of a lot of critics. Add to that his unwillingness to even say why the film was "imperfect", and you can see that this last vague point is just him trying again to put on airs of impartiality.
> 
> Honestly, given the content of his other videos, it's less an observation on why people criticized the movie and more him preaching to his choir.
> 
> ...



1) I'm not familiar with his work, but as I said, it's hard not to Straw Man the opposing side in the case like this. He probably should've just made the video about gender politics in SW though. Good or bad, at least those who watch the videos would presumably be interested in the gender politics debate. 

2) In my opinion, most video essayists/online critics think they're a lot smarter than they are...Probably all of us included. If I could say anything on him specifically based on that video alone, it sometimes felt like he was parroting arguments that had been made by other people. The best point he made- imo- was based on that dreadnaught's destruction, as that felt like an observation he made himself.

3) I'm about half way through RLM's video. I actually like a lot of his points and think he's more fair than people give him credit for (so far), but the humor is really not clicking for me. Admittedly, I've never loved this aspect of the Plinkett reviews, but I'm finding the 'funny' moments to be more distracting than anything else. 

4) The Empire Strikes Back did the same thing better and earlier...but it's also one of the best science fiction movies of all time and is everyone's favorite Star Wars movie...I don't hold the other movies to that standard.


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## RAGING BONER (Sep 4, 2018)



Reactions: Like 2


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Sep 5, 2018)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Bluebeard (Sep 5, 2018)

Hmm


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## MartialHorror (Sep 5, 2018)

Wait, I kept hearing that the sales have been poor. 

Does this mean that the haters have been lying to me?


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## Fang (Sep 5, 2018)

No, it just took TLJ to do in eight months what TFA did in half the time with its blu-ray sales.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mider T (Sep 6, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


>


You've been ninja-ing me on a lot of posts lately  Outselling two Marvel movies though...impressive.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Sep 6, 2018)

lol this movie still fucking sucks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Suigetsu (Sep 11, 2018)

that crustacean fight was done on the 1st or second take, there is no doubt about it now.


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## dr_shadow (Sep 19, 2018)

So I finally saw Gone with the Wind (1939), the only movie which if adjusted for inflation has grossed more than Star Wars: A New Hope. That's what 9-hour plane rides are for.

It was... a very schizophrenic experience.

When I tried to watch it with the mindset of a 1930's American, I can recognize that it's a masterpiece production with great acting, epic scope, and what must have been pretty astonishing sets and special effects. Like, how did they shoot the collapse of the burning house? Was that a miniature, or did they set an actual house on fire?

But if I watch it as someone living in 2018, I'm kind of aghast at how people living after the Civil War can be so totally unapologetic about slavery. The slaves of the O'hara family all seem perfectly content with their cotton-picking existence, and even after the Confederacy is defeated does Scarlett show any remorse or even insight into what kind of system she's been part of.

The only time slavery is brought up in the film ("you didn't have any trouble owning slaves, did you?"), she just waves it aside ("we didn't treat them so badly").

P.S.

All of Clark Gable's lines are fucking iconic.

"You should be kissed, and often! By somebody who knows how!"

I'm using that one.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 2, 2018)

It was the fucking Ivans man.


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## Skaddix (Oct 2, 2018)

Course it was the Ruskies...and yet Black Panther broke records...


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## Skaddix (Oct 2, 2018)

@The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour lol you really disagreed with such an old post its 30 pages back are you reading the whole thread?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 2, 2018)

Skaddix said:


> @The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour lol you really disagreed with such an old post its 30 pages back are you reading the whole thread?


Just parts of it.


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## Kuromaku (Oct 3, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> It was the fucking Ivans man.


I can't tell what's the biggest joke around this. The fact that someone wrote such a poorly written and researched paper that is basically an even sadder version of the 108-page Plinkett rebuttal? The fact that the Hollywood Reporter actually broght attention to said paper? Or the fact that anyone is paying attention to either of those when they should be scoffed at and relegated to the dustbin of history (oh wait, this last one includes me)?

No wait, there's an even bigger joke coming out of this:




https://www.businessinsider.com/sta...ssian-trolls-and-bots-new-study-finds-2018-10

I think it's safe to say that entertainment journalism is dead, or at least needs to be killed out of mercy.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 4, 2018)

Honestly, this just means Russians also realize this movie sucks.


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## Fang (Oct 4, 2018)

We already know that article is a joke when RT has time and time again confirmed that there was no major or overt influence on TLJ's scores.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gaiash (Oct 4, 2018)

It also doesn't matter because it has a 91% Certified Fresh score on the critic score which is the only Rotten Tomatoes score anyone actually cares about.


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## ~VK~ (Oct 4, 2018)

This thread has had better legs than the actual movie damn.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 6, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> This thread has had better legs than the actual movie damn.


D9isney took the biggest most mainstream brand in the history of universe an injected partisan politics into it. This was expected.


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## Gaiash (Oct 6, 2018)

Star Wars always had politics in it.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 6, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Star Wars always had politics in it.


Yeah, simple, easily enjoyed by the whole political spectrum.


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## Lucaniel (Oct 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Wait, I kept hearing that the sales have been poor.
> 
> Does this mean that the haters have been lying to me?


obviously


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## MartialHorror (Oct 6, 2018)

...you guys are still talking about this?


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## Gaiash (Oct 6, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> ...you guys are still talking about this?


People keep bumping the thread. At one point to talk about a completely different movie.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 7, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> People keep bumping the thread. At one point to talk about a completely different movie.


A SW brand management meghathread would be reasonable.


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## MartialHorror (Oct 7, 2018)

Where everyone can continue the exact same topic, in a continuous loop?


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 8, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Where everyone can continue the exact same topic, in a continuous loop?


Why are the economic arguments from 1920s rehashed?


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## ~VK~ (Oct 8, 2018)

Sennin does. i don't really care and maybe im just tripping and he didn't but if he did delete that silly post that's hilarious considering everything that's been said in this thread


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## Revan Reborn (Oct 8, 2018)

You know a movie is controversial, when it gets 133 pages.


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## Ishmael (Oct 8, 2018)

Revan Reborn said:


> You know a movie is controversial, when it gets 133 pages.



ever watch a compilation video of the reviews on it? never laughed so damn hard


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## Revan Reborn (Oct 8, 2018)

Ishmael said:


> ever watch a compilation video of the reviews on it? never laughed so damn hard


Nah, sounds fun.


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## Ishmael (Oct 8, 2018)

Revan Reborn said:


> Nah, sounds fun.




shit chewed my sides up


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 8, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> Sennin does. i don't really care and maybe im just tripping and he didn't but if he did delete that silly post that's hilarious considering everything that's been said in this thread


I am just saying i would take my chances with revived Hitler + Stalin as brand managers over Kennedy as long they know they making it for a 2010s audience, they are always watched by armed guards and all the talent in on it knows aliens will destory Earth if they let the secret out.


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 8, 2018)

mfw Venom was a better movie than this piece of shit

Reactions: Like 2


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> It never is. The thread had already stabilized and his post, in your eyes harmless and silly, would just kick start more of the same and I stopped it. If he had just made another critique of the movie like before I'd leave his post alone but he decided to poke fun of those that enjoyed it & that's plain baiting, simple. Any other mod would've acted the same.
> 
> But after seeing others like MartialHorror weigh in that it wasn't that neccessary is something I will consider as well for next time. Last thing I wanna do is get in between you guys and your shitposts.


It took you a year to finally intervene?


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## MartialHorror (Oct 9, 2018)

Part of me thinks that this thread should just be closed down, as there's nothing else to really do here except throw shade at people. Even Fang- a contender for President of this thread, considering how much time he dedicated to it- has moved on. Kabal isn't really interested in discussions as much as he's interested in provoking people for attention. I spend most of my time here scoffing at people for willingly living in a time loop. 

Gaiash...tries, I guess...But like most people here, it's as if he's just copying and pasting past arguments, because we've covered everything there is to cover for "The Last Jedi". Even the whole 'Russian bots' thing that could've revived some real topics died out, because there isn't really a whole lot to talk about. You either believe it or you don't. 

OR we can just rename it to be the Raging Boner thread, long may his erection reign, because his posts are the only reason any of us should come here for. ;p


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2018)

Do you all wanna make it a vote and decide whether it is for the best to close the thread for good?



~Gesy~ said:


> It took you a year to finally intervene?



It isn’t a year yet officially and like I said, it is never too late.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Part of me thinks that this thread should just be closed down, as there's nothing else to really do here except throw shade at people. Even Fang- a contender for President of this thread, considering how much time he dedicated to it- has moved on. Kabal isn't really interested in discussions as much as he's interested in provoking people for attention. I spend most of my time here scoffing at people for willingly living in a time loop.



It's Kamal. High profile Muslim film maker.


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## Mider T (Oct 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Who mods this section?


You're dumb.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 9, 2018)

Mider T said:


> You're dumb.


Go ahead and think that standing in impotence against me.


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## Gaiash (Oct 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> Gaiash...tries, I guess...But like most people here, it's as if he's just copying and pasting past arguments, because we've covered everything there is to cover for "The Last Jedi".


And it annoys me when I have to repeat my arguments because I can't keep track of who I've made it to or not at this point.


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## MartialHorror (Oct 9, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Go ahead and think that standing in impotence against me.



What does that even mean?



Gaiash said:


> And it annoys me when I have to repeat my arguments because I can't keep track of who I've made it to or not at this point.



For what it's worth, I've done the same thing. It's why I backed off.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 9, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> What does that even mean?


i shall have the last word and won't be the first to go ad hominem.


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Do you all wanna make it a vote and decide whether it is for the best to close the thread for good?


No point. The cancer will simply spread into the other Star Wars threads. Just lock this thread when the trailer for the new movie is released and moderate the other one.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 9, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> No point. The cancer will simply spread into the other Star Wars threads. Just lock this thread when the trailer for the new movie is released and moderate the other one.


Did this thread need much moderation?


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2018)

When y'all were calling each other autistic and recycling arguments for months on end?

Sure


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Oct 9, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> No point. The cancer will simply spread into the other Star Wars threads. Just lock this thread when the trailer for the new movie is released and moderate the other one.



It will be April or May by the time that happens though. I will lock it if things begin to start up again, if not I'll just do what you suggested.


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## Atlas (Oct 9, 2018)

Where else on this board am I suppose to shit on this film whenever I get the urge?


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## ~Gesy~ (Oct 9, 2018)

Atlas said:


> Where else on this board am I suppose to shit on this film whenever I get the urge?


Does LiveJournal still exist?


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## Mickey Mouse (Oct 9, 2018)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Do you all wanna make it a vote and decide whether it is for the best to close the thread for good?



Vote close.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 10, 2018)

~Gesy~ said:


> Does LiveJournal still exist?


I wish. Not much  good came out of the social media era.


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## Revan Reborn (Oct 10, 2018)

Atlas said:


> Where else on this board am I suppose to shit on this film whenever I get the urge?


It's a verbal version of a punching bag.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Oct 10, 2018)

this thread just


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## Suigetsu (Oct 11, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> And it annoys me when I have to repeat my arguments because I can't keep track of who I've made it to or not at this point.


Well that only means you have bad arguments.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 11, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Well that only means you have bad arguments.


Nobody says this about having the same arguments about economics from the 1920s over and over again.


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## Gaiash (Oct 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Well that only means you have bad arguments.


No, I can have trouble phrasing them because of my autism but the points themselves aren't bad arguments. You guys make bad arguments because often the core of my argument is telling you to *pay attention to the movie*.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 12, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> No, I can have trouble phrasing them because of my autism but the points themselves aren't bad arguments. You guys make bad arguments because often the core of my argument is telling you to *pay attention to the movie*.



because of my autism

You should never show weakness on a board with a lot of politics on it.


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## Suigetsu (Oct 12, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> No, I can have trouble phrasing them because of my autism.


Are you diagnosed with autism?


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## Gaiash (Oct 12, 2018)

Suigetsu said:


> Are you diagnosed with autism?


Yes, I've known about it most of my life too having been diagnosed at an early age.


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## DemonDragonJ (Oct 14, 2018)

At this point, I know that it is foolish to continue to complain about the prequels, but I personally believe that the planet of Naboo should never have existed; instead, anything involving Naboo should have instead involved Alderaan, as that would have actually given development to that planet before it was destroyed and helped the audience to actually feel sympathy for it when it was destroyed, and also have made Padme and Leia be from the same planet, as well.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 14, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> Yes, I've known about it most of my life too having been diagnosed at an early age.


Are you going to shame your fellow leftists into not using at as insult against randos who disagree with them?


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## Gaiash (Oct 14, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> Are you going to shame your fellow leftists into not using at as insult against randos who disagree with them?


The angriest I got in this thread was when someone in this thread who was on my side of the debate used it as an insult.


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## MartialHorror (Oct 14, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> The angriest I got in this thread was when someone in this thread who was on my side of the debate used it as an insult.



I remember this, although I don't remember who exactly was being scolded.


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## Gaiash (Oct 14, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> I remember this, although I don't remember who exactly was being scolded.


I don't think they stuck around very long.


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## Mider T (Oct 15, 2018)

I get the feeling this is actually Kamal's favorite movie.:ho


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 15, 2018)

Mider T said:


> I get the feeling this is actually Kamal's favorite movie.:ho


I just got a feeling yoiu don't have the msg board RPG stats to own me.


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## Mider T (Oct 15, 2018)

The Kamal Haasan Crazy Hour said:


> I just got a feeling yoiu don't have the msg board RPG stats to own me.


I just got a dictionary to decipher this.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Oct 15, 2018)

Mider T said:


> I just got a dictionary to decipher this.


You are feeling what you need to feel.


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## Kuromaku (Oct 15, 2018)

Honestly, it seems more like a divisive and somewhat sub-par movie that would have quickly faded from the general imagination if not for the modern culture of the Internet. It's not horrible or outright dull like _Attack of the Clones _or _Rogue One _(), but since the Internet insists on making everything either the greatest movie since _Citizen Kane _or the worst film since _Manos: The Hands of Fate_, it's now either one of the best SW films (that's not a compliment to the series if that is indeed the case) or the worst thing that ever happened to the franchise (see _The Star Wars Holiday Special_ while sober for something truly horrendous).


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## ~VK~ (Oct 15, 2018)

The last jedi isn't the worst blockbuster movie of 2017 but it is the most disapointing one.


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## ~VK~ (Oct 15, 2018)

You can say all you want about _Attack of the Clones _but it never did manage to kill my interest in watching episode III. I have no desire nor any real incentive to watch episode IX. That's new.


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## Gaiash (Oct 15, 2018)

~VK~ said:


> I have no desire nor any real incentive to watch episode IX. That's new.


I on the other hand am super excited for it because of all the things that The Last Jedi introduced and changed.


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## ~VK~ (Oct 15, 2018)

Gaiash said:


> I on the other hand am super excited for it because of all the things that The Last Jedi introduced and changed.


Good for you.


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## Raiden (Oct 15, 2018)

I actually finally saw this recently. I was surprised that it ended when it did. I don't think killing a major character in a movie, and then offing one of the main villains before it ended was a good call. I also don't get Kylo's character change. It seems he was leaning to be good and then went completely evil lmao. Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 15, 2018)

Raiden said:


> I actually finally saw this recently. I was surprised that it ended when it did. I don't think killing a major character in a movie, and then offing one of the main villains before it ended was a good call. I also don't get Kylo's character change. It seems he was leaning to be good and then went completely evil lmao. Doesn't make sense to me.



Well, recall what Han told Kylo Ren on Starkiller Base - Snoke was only using Ben for his power, and would destroy him once he was done with him. In "The Last Jedi", with Ben still emotionally reeling from killing his own father, I think Snoke tearing down the entire image Ben had built for himself validated what Han said to him, and motivated his plan to kill Snoke and take over the First Order.

I think Kylo Ren's character wouldn't be as interesting if he just stayed as Snoke's right-hand throughout the entirety of Episode VIII. If Snoke had stuck around as well, it would have made Episode IX's story too easy to predict. With Snoke gone, I'm more interested to see Episode IX than I would have been.


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## Gaiash (Oct 15, 2018)

Raiden said:


> I also don't get Kylo's character change. It seems he was leaning to be good and then went completely evil lmao. Doesn't make sense to me.


That's the point, to make the audience believe along with Rey that Kylo can be redeemed so when instead he overthrows Snoke as the new Supreme Leader it's a surprise.


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## ~VK~ (Oct 16, 2018)

Han should've used a space condom. Sometimes there are galactic consequences to having weak pull out game.


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## Suigetsu (Oct 16, 2018)

Maybe if he have had Jaina instead of that “furcio face” he would still be alive and SW would have a really cute waifu to sell merchandise about.

No one cares about xenomorph grill.


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## MartialHorror (Oct 16, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> Honestly, it seems more like a divisive and somewhat sub-par movie that would have quickly faded from the general imagination if not for the modern culture of the Internet. It's not horrible or outright dull like _Attack of the Clones _or _Rogue One _(), but since the Internet insists on making everything either the greatest movie since _Citizen Kane _or the worst film since _Manos: The Hands of Fate_, it's now either one of the best SW films (that's not a compliment to the series if that is indeed the case) or the worst thing that ever happened to the franchise (see _The Star Wars Holiday Special_ while sober for something truly horrendous).



That's probably true, which is why this thread still is more active than the Solo movie.

The prequels almost seemed to have been forgotten about until the rise of Redlettermedia, where suddenly their reputation went form divisive to toxic and now peeing on them is trendy. 

All of this Kylo Ren discussion is pointless until Episode 9 wraps up the character. Episode 7 establishes that despite his villainy, he's struggling to come to terms with it. Episode 8 shows that at least part of him feels regret, but he's too weak to confront his inner demons. In episode 9, he'll find either redemption or damnation and quite frankly, I think either could happen. I suspect he'll go down a Vader route, where he'll probably embrace the light, but at the expense of his life. 

I kind of hope it's the opposite though. I think it would be unique if Kylo Ren dies a villain, albeit a complex and tragic one. Star Wars needs to stop reminding us of the OT. Kylo Ren's character arc has been built around his desire to be Vader and then realizing that he'll never be Vader, so his resolution needs to be different.


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## Kuromaku (Oct 17, 2018)

MartialHorror said:


> That's probably true, which is why this thread still is more active than the Solo movie.
> 
> The prequels almost seemed to have been forgotten about until the rise of Redlettermedia, where suddenly their reputation went form divisive to toxic and now peeing on them is trendy.



The prequels were made fun of for a long time, but discussions around them had become increasingly niche until RLM revived interest around them. Unfortunately, by doing so, this discussion grew to include a much wider audience, and we all know how toxic the general public is. The more people that get involved with something, the more likely that at least one of them is going to be a stupid asshole.



> All of this Kylo Ren discussion is pointless until Episode 9 wraps up the character. Episode 7 establishes that despite his villainy, he's struggling to come to terms with it. Episode 8 shows that at least part of him feels regret, but he's too weak to confront his inner demons. In episode 9, he'll find either redemption or damnation and quite frankly, I think either could happen. I suspect he'll go down a Vader route, where he'll probably embrace the light, but at the expense of his life.
> 
> I kind of hope it's the opposite though. I think it would be unique if Kylo Ren dies a villain, albeit a complex and tragic one. Star Wars needs to stop reminding us of the OT. Kylo Ren's character arc has been built around his desire to be Vader and then realizing that he'll never be Vader, so his resolution needs to be different.



The problem with your ending though is that _Star Wars_ is first and foremost, an optimistic fairy tale/morality play in space. You can't go against that. Even _Revenge of the Sith_ ends by reminding us that good will prevail later on. I'd rather he was redeemed, but actually have to live to atone, something Vader never had to do.


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## MartialHorror (Oct 17, 2018)

Kuromaku said:


> The problem with your ending though is that _Star Wars_ is first and foremost, an optimistic fairy tale/morality play in space. You can't go against that. Even _Revenge of the Sith_ ends by reminding us that good will prevail later on. I'd rather he was redeemed, but actually have to live to atone, something Vader never had to do.



*Sigh* I know and your ending probably is better. I just want his fate to be his own, not a rehash of Vader's.


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## Kaaant (Jan 11, 2019)

Film was so shit, so insulting to a 40 year old franchise and it’s fans it’s unreal.


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## Skaddix (Jan 11, 2019)

...why am I am being summoned back here. Yes thank you @Kaaant its shit did you just fucking see it?


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## Mider T (Jan 11, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Film was so shit, so insulting to a 40 year old franchise and it’s fans it’s unreal.


Its actually Kamal's favorite installment.


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## Skaddix (Jan 11, 2019)

Well shit @Mider T as if one needed more reasons to dislike Kamal.

Kamal has shit taste in movies and politics, truly no redeemable qualities.


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## A. Waltz (Jan 11, 2019)

i agree it is shit. watched it with a toddler a few weeks ago and i realized just how seriously it tries to take itself. sooo uncomfortable and cringe to watch.


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## Rax (Jan 12, 2019)

Getting closer to seeing how bad Episode 9 sells


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 12, 2019)

my default response to TLJ whenever its brought up



> my thoughts on TLJ
> 
> The problem with Rey and I think a lot of people miss this. Isn't that she is super powerful, I mean we've had chicks go from zero to "savior of the galaxy" relatively quickly, Nomi Sunrider who was probably the most accomplished leader of the Jedi order in history save for Yoda and who a lot of the old EU loved comparing Yoda and Luke too (ie she seemed to be a benchmark?) was basically a soccer mom before she became a Jedi. Now, she was a lot more tolerable and enjoyable as a character, mostly because she had personality and a little depth. Her story was interesting, you wanted to find out what was gonna happen to her and her kid, her master Thon was six shades of awesome and embodied "judge me not by my looks" and her romantic entanglements weren't too annoying. Hell, as forced and poorly executed as Padme/Anakin was, Padme had personality, she had guts, she was an experience politician and it showed the few times she wasn't just a device to forward Anakins plot. Anakin himself was really annoying in the movies, but the character had moments where you felt for the guy, hated with him, raged with him, grieved with him etc etc. He had a soul even if it was a withered, stunted thing.
> 
> ...


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

Rax said:


> Getting closer to seeing how bad Episode 9 sells



Meh it will clear a Billion.


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## Rax (Jan 12, 2019)

Skaddix said:


> Meh it will clear a Billion.


Doubt it.

Star Wars lost China


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 12, 2019)

Mider T said:


> Its actually Kamal's favorite installment.


Evidence?



Skaddix said:


> Well shit @Mider T as if one needed more reasons to dislike Kamal.
> 
> Kamal has shit taste in movies and politics, truly no redeemable qualities.



i don't back down from any NF retard. The only quality needed and no ther Milder bitch is not telling the truth.


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## Mider T (Jan 12, 2019)

Kamal has shit taste in the English language as well.  He chooses to type in Hawaiian Pidgin.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 12, 2019)

Mider T said:


> Kamal has shit taste in the English language as well.  He chooses to type in Hawaiian Pidgin.


At least i qoute you when i am talking trash about you.

Talking about taste on the NF...

What the fuck is wrong with you?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 12, 2019)

It's sad how sensitive and triggered people are by this movie. You're bitching about it almost two years later with seemingly no provocation other than "it exists". 

I wish I had this kind of mental energy to waste on something I supposedly hate.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 12, 2019)

They're just mad Kylo Ren is an allegory for shitty fanboys.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 12, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> They're just mad Kylo Ren is an allegory for shitty fanboys.



LOL!

I actually hope they do that for Episode 9. It can open with him whining about Luke on space twitter. He then uses the empires resources to harass Rose and bitch about Rey only defeating him because she's a woman.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 12, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> LOL!
> 
> I actually hope they do that for Episode 9. It can open with him whining about Luke on space twitter. He then uses the empires resources to harass Rose and bitch about Rey only defeating him because she's a woman.


Because she is a women. GTFO, people were fine with the Exile being a chick.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Skaddix said:


> ...why am I am being summoned back here. Yes thank you @Kaaant its shit did you just fucking see it?



I don’t remember much from yesterday let alone how I got here. You should be thanking me so we can have another round of shitting on it.


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## Xhominid (Jan 12, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> They're just mad Kylo Ren is an allegory for shitty fanboys.


That doesn't even work...
Kylo Ren wants to kill the past, no Star Wars fanboy wants the past to be killed, they want it to continue on.

Quit with that bullshit that Kylo Ren is an allegory for the Old EU fanboys, it doesn't even get past the typical stage.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's sad how sensitive and triggered people are by this movie. You're bitching about it almost two years later with seemingly no provocation other than "it exists".
> 
> I wish I had this kind of mental energy to waste on something I supposedly hate.



It’s sad how invested you are in wether people like or dislike it. People still hate on the room to this day, I guarantee you don’t give one flying fuck about their critiques because you probably agree with them.



Xhominid said:


> That doesn't even work...
> Kylo Ren wants to kill the past, no Star Wars fanboy wants the past to be killed, they want it to continue on.
> 
> Quit with that bullshit that Kylo Ren is an allegory for the Old EU fanboys, it doesn't even get past the typical stage.



I saw someone compare “kill the past” to Stalin’s Russia, as he tried to write people and events out of history 

I think it fits. See pablo “Death Star mk3 dome” hidalgo saying that luke’s Lightsaber belongs to rey.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 12, 2019)

Xhominid said:


> That doesn't even work...
> Kylo Ren wants to kill the past, no Star Wars fanboy wants the past to be killed, they want it to continue on.
> 
> Quit with that bullshit that Kylo Ren is an allegory for the Old EU fanboys, it doesn't even get past the typical stage.



It's a perfect analogy actually, I don't know why your dragging the EU into this though.

Kylo Ren stomps around in an approximation of a Darth Vader costume because he enjoys dressing that way. His lightsaber is cobbled together and unstable because it's made of old parts he found. He's probably the most intentionally edge lord thing in the whole franchise. 

Just because you like the EU doesn't mean your a shitty fanboy though. You have to be shitty yourself to qualify.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 12, 2019)

No movie is above criticism, but this room gets made fun of like most of the corners of the internet still bitching about this film, for having an over reaction to something that’s at worse an average Star Wara movie with a lot of the same problems as other Star Wars movies.


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

As I said TLJ, the movie that launched a thousand youtube careers. 

That is not even really a major exaggeration. So many youtuber hit the 1000 subs or more hating on this movie.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Except it’s not an average Star Wars film. Ignoring the complete disrespect of the origin it’s come from (across 7+8 honestly. I don’t see why tfa gets away with it.) There’s so many plot holes and inconsistencies that take me out of the story. It is insulting to the viewers intelligence some of the stuff they tried to get away with.

Easily the worst of them all. Even the prequels. 

And it is mighty ironic being told you can’t criticise a film that’s not even two years old yet I see people posting in this very thread who criticise a dead aspect of the franchise - the Eu, which has been dead for almost half a decade 

Reminds me of people that think an in depth movie analysis can’t be longer than the film itself.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> And it is mighty ironic being told you can’t criticise a film that’s not even two years old yet I see people posting in this very thread who criticise a dead aspect of the franchise - the Eu, which has been dead for almost half a decade


What you're doing isn't criticism though, it's whining. I could easily keep bumping threads about Pacific Rim Uprising and go on and on about all my problems with that movie over the course of over a year but I don't. I'll still criticize the movie sure but what's the point in wallowing in my hate for it?


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

>pointing out it’s flaws isn’t criticism

Yeah ok retard. 

“Keep bumping threads”

Yeah that’s why I did it once. Because I keep doing it...


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)




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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> >pointing out it’s flaws isn’t criticism
> 
> Yeah ok retard.


Using ableist language, so mature.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

I’m sorry I’m not disabled


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 12, 2019)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Usually it’s the women hating bigots like you shooting places up and the numbers back this up. But keep living in your fantasy worlds where “fuck boy” is a protected class.



I hate women now? The stuff you guys make up about me is amazing...but sure the "numbers" back that up, never minding that Cruz, Haddock and the scalise shooter were all ANTIFA members and two of them worked for Bernie Sanders...and all the dead cops of late 

Also which one of us threatens to murder people for voting for Trump and then gets  likes by the staff over it? Oh yeah...not me.



Gaiash said:


> Using ableist language, so mature.



"abelist language"

You sound awful bigoted.



Kaaant said:


> I’m sorry I’m not disabled





amazing how inevitably, it becomes "if you oppose this movie its because you're a Nazi" when most of us who have criticized the ST have said shit like that "Merge Finn and Rey cast Alexandra Shipp who can act, has real talent and isn't a soulless puppet and we'd be good"

and "the fuck was with the order 66 reboot..we wanted more Jedi"

and

"Oscar Isaac is a man BORN to play sci fi villains, watch Robin Hood and X-men Apocalypse, what fucking drugs were y'all on when you cast the hyper talented, hammy as fuck Ricardo Montelbon reborn "buried alive, buried alive" friend as a boring fighter pilot and the wooden, stilted, limited camel cigarettes mascot looking dude as the ragey bad guy"

the crux..of the complaints has always been poor execution, poor acting and really bad casting choices and awful ideas that make no sense. If these guys had any balls they'd attack China for its blatant bigotry given they cited Rey's looks as a reason for nearly banning the movie. Apparently casting "ugly people" constitutes an attack on traditional family values in China or someshit


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Tlj lost to a romcom in China because of all the neo nazis running around


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Tlj lost to a romcom in China because of all the neo nazis running around



Yes, over a billion Neo Nazis...clearly

India has the largest far right party in the world, wonder how well TLJ did there...especially when they mangled Hindu scripture in writing up the Jedi bibles then had a force Angel call them boring...But again no one will discuss this because only western-white boiz can be racist 

or maybe you know...the movies are just depressing wastes of potential?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pocalypse (Jan 12, 2019)

This film is just over a year old and still the newest Star Wars film that isn't a spin-off so nothing wrong with criticising the film.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

YouTube the last Jedi and try to find a positive review among the top videos. Look at review sites in any depth beyond the blatantly dishonest “””critic””” and media review and you’ll see the response to it was overwhelmingly negative, getting worse over time. The worst received Star Wars film of all time and by contrast it took a long time for people to see the pt’s flaws, which are all still higher received to this day than the last Jedi.

I suspect the same will be said about the force awakens. Potentially even the final film but who knows.

So really the people here that are mad people don’t like their soulless film are the minority opinion.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

The more the films defenders use words like "ableist" unironically, the more I feel better for calling it the mass of fecal matter it is.


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

A full reboot is what the franchise needs.

Personally I dont get anything about this shitshow

They had no time to write, tossed the EU and had no long term plan.

Fucking hell if you dont want to give JJ and Kasdan time to fucking write then just fucking ripoff some damn EU novels or comics. plenty of good material they could have easily mined and kept their 2 year turnaround schedule.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

They’d have to recast and reshoot for a new hope if they wanted that now

>implying tfa wasn’t basically that


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

I am guessing George has in his contract that they cannot reboot until after he dies. 

Should have just used the Vong...makes more sense then the first Order.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> So really the people here that are mad people don’t like their soulless film are the minority opinion.


Or more accurately people are more likely to make YouTube videos ranting about movies they don't like and videos that are critical of movies are popular. There's a reason CinemaSins is still successful. All your post means is that people with your perspective are more vocal.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jan 12, 2019)

Lol, people trying to deny this was a shitty movie.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Lol, people trying to deny this was a shitty movie.


Lol, people trying to deny this was a great movie.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Gaiash said:


> Or more accurately people are more likely to make YouTube videos ranting about movies they don't like and videos that are critical of movies are popular. There's a reason CinemaSins is still successful. All your post means is that people with your perspective are more vocal.


Except these youtubers deriding the film are way more popular than the ones defending the film.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

So basically you don’t like that most people a step above the casual film goer that go as far as to review it on a website or view discussion videos don’t like it. How does it work out then that Mauler’s unbridled praise of infinity war is almost as popular as his videos critiquing the last Jedi?


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Gaiash said:


> Lol, people trying to deny this was a great movie.


>butchers old characters
>makes shitty pointless new characters
>shitty incompetent villains
>dumbass incompetent heroes
>shitty worldbulding that does not tell us enough and what it does tell is tired and dull
>plot points that go no where and whatever interest the previous film had are thrown away removing almost any reason to care about the sequel 

Nothing great there.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

So people with established audiences have popular videos is your argument here?


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

I just looked at the front page for avengers infinity war reviews contrasted to the last Jedi reviews and avengers is entirely positive reviews, while the last Jedi is overwhelmingly negative.

You are full of shit


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

Doesn't Mauler hate BP? Granted there is no shortage of white youtubers jumping on the bandwagon to hate on BP.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Black panther isn’t infinity war


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Black panther isn’t infinity war


And it sure as hell was no where near the 9/10 film Critics were making it out to be.


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

My point is the pump is primed to hate TLJ and love IW. He is playing to the crowd.

And white people love bitching about BP as well.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

What crowd was mauler playing to when he made a five hour video series replying to an hour long video by hbomber guy? Do you even know who that is?

Nonsense.

>white people dont like bp because racism 

Yawn


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## ~Gesy~ (Jan 12, 2019)

Skaddix said:


> A full reboot is what the franchise needs.
> 
> Personally I dont get anything about this shitshow
> 
> ...


Isn't the next trilogy set in a distant future? This is probably the last movie of the Skywalker saga.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Jan 12, 2019)

Gaiash said:


> Lol, people trying to deny this was a great movie.



It was a mess with hollow characters, that shat on the majority of the setups made in the previous part.
But if you like that, at least now I know why you have an Ash Ketchum avi. . .


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Mocking an autistic person is ableist Schemer, watch it.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> It was a mess with hollow characters, that shat on the majority of the setups made in the previous part.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Unironically shilling for characters of less importance and lesser quality than jarjar lul


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

When the top search result for rose tico at one point was “rose tico’s sister”


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 12, 2019)

Seriously not worth arguing with most of these people. I mean the idea of YouTube commentary video numbers being evidence is laughable. People make videos because idiots keep watching them.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

RUSSIA HACKED THE YOUTUBE ALGORITHM


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Skaddix said:


> And white people love bitching about BP as well.


And Black people love to jerk off to it as some kind of masterpiece when it is just a typical comic book movie.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 12, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> RUSSIA HACKED THE YOUTUBE ALGORITHM



I remember that! The divide between audience and critics is because of alt right trolls not disgust with bad writing.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

>cites actual audience review scores
“Alt right hacked rotten tomatoes”
>rotten tomatoes say that’s not true
“Nuh uh”
>most popular reviews on the last Jedi are the most critical
“what do like, people’s opinions have to do with like, determining if a film is well received or not”



Oh look google trends



Lmao

I think the film might be horseshit and I think most people that care about the film beyond a one time watch might agree.


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## Skaddix (Jan 12, 2019)

Look I won't so racist bashing played no roll but come on we had racist and sexist complaining about TFA and its Box Office broke 2 billion so its pretty clear the movie got heat cause it was shit as a movie and especially as a star wars movie.

What is funny is I can take TLJ from the left or the right or not even bring race/sex into it. Its bad on all levels.


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)

Race and gender politics are firmly a thing new Lucas arts are playing to and admit they are. They are proud of it, and calling it out is not racist or sexist. That’s a boring as fuck argument. 

Rey does not suck because she is a woman or even necessarily because she is a forced feminist icon. She is a shit fanfic tier Mary sue insert. She’s more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue. Mary Sue died, while for Rey the universe bends over backwards to accommodate her.


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## Gaiash (Jan 12, 2019)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Seriously not worth arguing with most of these people. I mean the idea of YouTube commentary video numbers being evidence is laughable. People make videos because idiots keep watching them.


At this point that gif is the only counter argument I need.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Gaiash said:


> At this point that gif is the only counter argument I have.


FFYI

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Jan 12, 2019)




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## Pocalypse (Jan 12, 2019)

Even Mark Hamill didn't want anything to do with this shitshow, just watch all his awkward as hell TLJ discussion videos before the film was released, especially when he's with dumb and dumber, Rian and Kathleen. The dude wanted to scream from the top of his lungs on how shit the film was but ofc he's an actor so he has to remain professional.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 12, 2019)

Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard said:


> Because she is a women. GTFO, people were fine with the Exile being a chick.



I was making a joke, genius. 



Kaaant said:


> Except it’s not an average Star Wars film. Ignoring the complete disrespect of the origin it’s come from (across 7+8 honestly. I don’t see why tfa gets away with it.) There’s so many plot holes and inconsistencies that take me out of the story. It is insulting to the viewers intelligence some of the stuff they tried to get away with.
> 
> Easily the worst of them all. Even the prequels.
> 
> ...



Actually, maybe "an average Star Wars film" is bad, considering you have the prequels, the Ewok movies, the Holiday Special, and the poorly received animated movie...That's 7 bad movies, 3 great ones...I didn't even include the NT, where every entry has been at least somewhat divisive.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 12, 2019)

Ewok movies and the holiday special were not even theatrical films, ROTS was not bad at all and was at least decent, and the animated Clone Wars movie was just okay. Only the first two PT films were bad making around only 2 SW films that could be described as such before Disney came along. So lol at the average film being bad.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Ewok movies and the holiday special were not even theatrical films, ROTS was not bad at all and was at least decent, and the animated Clone Wars movie was just okay. Only the first two PT films were bad making around only 2 SW films that could be described as such before Disney came along. So lol at the average film being bad.



He didn't say theatrical films. Also -- by what standard is the Clone Wars movie okay?

It had an 18% RT score, a 5.something/10 on imdb, a B- on cinemascore and a 38% audience score on RT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the worst for all of the theatrically released films by far. 

Obviously opinions are opinions, so if you like it that's fine, but it's not like you've been open minded to opposing opinions yourself.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> He didn't say theatrical films.


Made for tv films that almost no one watched is just a desperate example at best so why you brought them up at all is laughable.


MartialHorror said:


> Also -- by what standard is the Clone Wars movie okay?


As in, not the worst thing I saw, and sure as hell not the best or good, just okay, forgettable, but I sure as hell saw worse in my life.


MartialHorror said:


> It had an 18% RT score, a 5.something/10 on imdb, a B- on cinemascore and a 38% audience score on RT. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the worst for all of the theatrically released films by far.


So now that should also mean The Last Jedi is objectively a bad film based on massive audience dislike? Thanks for agreeing with us Einstein.


MartialHorror said:


> Obviously opinions are opinions, so if you like it that's fine, but it's not like you've been open minded to opposing opinions yourself.


I'm not open minded to shit opinions.

Oh and thanks for the rep genius, I think you forgot to up the - symbol before putting down the points.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 13, 2019)

Xhominid said:


> Kylo Ren wants to kill the past, no Star Wars fanboy wants the past to be killed, they want it to continue on.



Except you _do_ want the more recent past and present to die for the sake of getting back the EU continuity from five years ago.

The EU ran for over twenty years with a good run and passionate fans, far longer than many other franchises have lasted and more than some franchises have received.

But that continuity couldn't work if they wanted to make a Sequel Trilogy that was accessible to everyone. As Leland Chee mentioned, in his mind:

"_Publishing had decided they needed to kill somebody, and it was Chewbacca. … But if you have the opportunity to bring back Chewbacca into a live-action film, you’re not gonna deprive fans that. There’s no way that I’d want to do an Episode VII that didn’t have Chewbacca in it and have to explain that Chewbacca had a moon fall on his head. And if we were going to overturn a monumental decision like that, everything else was really just minor in comparison.”_

That really sums up one major problems just the first Sequel film set in the EU continuity would have had: the need to explain why Chewbacca is no longer alive. The rest of the problems would have involved spending more time establishing/explaining who EU relevant characters are, why Han and Leia have two dead sons, why Luke has a dead wife, etc. 

Furthermore, there were many, many occasions where the Prequel Trilogy and, later, "The Clone Wars" frequently overrode or retconned events or character situations from the EU, leading to EU writers needing to write new stories to explain discrepancies between the EU and the Prequel Trilogy, or between the EU and _The Clone Wars_.

Resetting the EU left the two Trilogies and _The Clone Wars _as the central canon and allowed for more streamlined story-telling with the new continuity and new stories to be told.

When the Sequel Trilogy was announced, I didn't have any concerns or complaints that the EU was finished being told, a continuity I only followed tangentially through the _Essential Guides _and a very small handful of specific book that caught my interest. 

My reaction was interest in seeing what new direction and new stories would be told in the new continuity, and that interest has not waned.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Made for tv films that almost no one watched is just a desperate example at best so why you brought them up at all is laughable.



First off, fuck you, I grew up with those Ewok movies and my entire generation saw at least the first one. Those movies were awesome...even if only from the perspective of a 7 year old...

Also, by this logic...does "Solo" count? Because no one seems to have watched that...



> As in, not the worst thing I saw, and sure as hell not the best or good, just okay, forgettable, but I sure as hell saw worse in my life.
> 
> So now that should also mean The Last Jedi is objectively a bad film based on massive audience dislike? Thanks for agreeing with us Einstein.
> 
> I'm not open minded to shit opinions.



So this is your way of saying "I clearly did not realize that the movie I kind of liked was hated by the masses, but am too much of a pussy to admit it". 

Got it. 

Also, a word of advice on critical analysis -- 'objective' is a can of worms, because film theory, standards, styles and preferences are always changing. "Birth of a Nation" was once highly regarded, but now is looked upon as a source of shame. "Airport" was once an Oscar nominee that people took seriously. "The Blair Witch Project" was once the scariest movie of all time. "Citizen Kane" was once the greatest movie of all time. "Heaven's Gate" was once the worst movie of all time. "The Empire Strikes Back" was once regarded as the worst Star Wars film because it was too episodic and dark. 

I wouldn't call "The Last Jedi" an objectively good film anymore than I'd call "The Clone Wars" a bad film. It just makes you look stupid years later. 



> Oh and thanks for the rep genius, I think you forgot to up the - symbol before putting down the points.



You're welcome. I give everyone positive reps when I rep anyone at all, because only soyboys do anything else.


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## Es (Jan 13, 2019)

Catalyst75 said:


> Except you _do_ want the more recent past and present to die for the sake of getting back the EU continuity from five years ago.
> 
> The EU ran for over twenty years with a good run and passionate fans, far longer than many other franchises have lasted and more than some franchises have received.
> 
> ...


And the new direction is inferior to what it replaced so


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 13, 2019)

How much is Disney paying you man?

Reactions: Like 1


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

I have never really been critical of the EU myself. It was great while it lasted, but the moment that a true sequel trilogy became a reality I already knew that would be  thrown out because the types is stories you would tell in that kind of movie series have already been covered.

I don't understand some people's obsession with canon. The old expanded universe is still there to enjoy and at least it's still mostly consistent with itself. (Ignoring all the Retcons contained). It is simply a part of the mythos of Star Wars that has closed for now.

The difference is I don't look at the EU with rose tinted glasses I suppose. In the well of ideas left behind by that series, there were plenty of bad ideas to go along with the good.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> First off, fuck you, I grew up with those Ewok movies


What a sad, pathetic childhood.


MartialHorror said:


> Also, by this logic...does "Solo" count? Because no one seems to have watched that...


Well yes by your own logic on critics and audience score it does. But you only talked about the pre Disney films so that was where the argument was about. Besides once again, Ewok films were made for tv shit that were not comparable to big blockbusters like the rest. It is simply a desperate example, nothing else.


MartialHorror said:


> So this is your way of saying "I clearly did not realize that the movie I kind of liked was hated by the masses, but am too much of a pussy to admit it".


>liked
Since when the hell does calling something Okay and Forgettable indicate I liked it dumbass?


MartialHorror said:


> so, a word of advice on critical analysis -- 'objective' is a can of worms


The only kind of people saying this shit are the same ones looking for a way out of addressing TLJ's faults by making  "objective" a dirty word implying that is not fair to use. It's bullshit because the fact remains films like The Last Jedi can be objectively said to be bad based on the numerous plot holes and bad writing obvious throughout the film.


MartialHorror said:


> I wouldn't call "The Last Jedi" an objectively good film anymore than I'd call "The Clone Wars" a bad film. It just makes you look stupid years later.


You only look stupid for stating something wrong. Last Jedi being objectively bad is just a fact.


MartialHorror said:


> You're welcome. I give everyone positive reps when I rep anyone at all, because only soyboys do anything else.


>gives people rep for calling his shit out
>dares to use the word "soyboy" as if this shit here does not fit the very definition of it, especially as a SoyWars apologist


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> SNIP


Shouldn't you be busy screaming about a vast right wing conspiracy to take over NF or some shit?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Shouldn't you be busy screaming about a vast right wing conspiracy to take over NF or some shit?



and that Es and I are the masterminds, can't forget that.

also we're over a hundred years old too...that part is very important!


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Shouldn't you be busy screaming about a vast right wing conspiracy to take over NF or some shit?



Sounds like a waste of my time if ask me, trolls tend to expose themselves.

Seems to me that a lot of people take themselves too seriously.  Like watchdog accusing me of shooting up a mall just for pointing out that Kylo Ren is an allegory for shitty fan boys.

Honestly how a casual comment can cause him to boil over in rage so much that he forgets all human decency is beyond comprehension. I suppose I do gain some enjoyment from his over the top reactions though, even when I do nothing to address him directly.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> Sounds like a waste of my time if ask me, trolls tend to expose themselves


Speaking from experience there I see.


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## Kansas City Kipchaks Point Guard (Jan 13, 2019)

Gaiash said:


> At this point that gif is the only counter argument I need.


Gifs are finiszhing moves. Real postas go down and dirty.



MartialHorror said:


> I was making a joke, genius.


It's hard to tell with them current day progressives.



Catalyst75 said:


> My reaction was interest in seeing what new direction and new stories would be told in the new continuity, and that interest has not waned.



People would had been just as hyped if they keep the EU.



strongarm85 said:


> I have never really been critical of the EU myself. It was great while it lasted, but the moment that a true sequel trilogy became a reality I already knew that would be  thrown out because the types is stories you would tell in that kind of movie series have already been covered.
> 
> I don't understand some people's obsession with canon. The old expanded universe is still there to enjoy and at least it's still mostly consistent with itself. (Ignoring all the Retcons contained). It is simply a part of the mythos of Star Wars that has closed for now.
> 
> The difference is I don't look at the EU with rose tinted glasses I suppose. In the well of ideas left behind by that series, there were plenty of bad ideas to go along with the good.



It's dead unlike the Star Trek booksverse.

It can have bad ideas and be way better than Disney Star Wars.


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2019)

Last time I'll ever post in this thread since its the same circular nonsense repeated over and over without fail from the same apologists who need not be named but:

The idea, even the conflating of the concept that TLJ was a "good" film or even "decent" by any stretch is so ludicrous that it goes beyond the pale of common sense. This film, this film alone, has damaged the franchise so heavily it had immediate ramifications with at least a heavy influence of damaging Solo beyond repair which completely bombed at the box office. And Solo didn't simply fail, it bombed, it was an unmitigated financial and commercial disaster that was never thought possible with a triple A blockbluster franchise like Star Wars. To go along with that, Solo's reception wasn't exactly positive but TLJ's was absolutely in the dumpsters. The wide disparity between what "critics" thought on average vs fan (casual or hardcore alike) being so tremendous that detractors of TLJ were completely proven right when RT's spokespeople stepped onto the center stage and confirmed the reviews for it being so universally panned were accurate killed most of the defense of the film.

Regardless though, even before TLJ, Disney's handling of the franchise has been haphazard and inconsistent at best and incompetent to a gross degree at worst.

The toys are not selling. Toys R Us went out of business because Disney completely overestimated the market appeal and belief that casual fans of all demographics; parents, kids, collectors, etc...would eat up any and all merchandise, collectibles, figures, and so on without any sort of rationale. That blew up in their face. TFA struggled to get close to get to TPM era merchandise sales, R1 sunk, and TLJ did even worse.

You can go to your local Target, Walmart, K-Mart, Dollar Tree, and so on and find literally mountains of Disney Star Wars era toys in surplus stocked to the bursting in aisles or back-stock filling their backrooms. No one is buying Kylo, Jyn, Rey, or especially Rose, Finn, or Phasma toys. This is what killed Toys R Us. The backlash with this because of TLJ and Solo also leads into toy makers like Hasbro and Kenner being forced to "renegotiate" licensing and royalty contracts for Star Wars merchandise with Lucas Films and Disney. Even GameStop can't sell their Snoke, Rose, and so on crap which is CONSTANTLY on clearance or sales of 50% or more which no one is touching.

The franchise is dying. And it ultimately comes down to confrontational executives and heads of the company and its films such as Kathleen Kennedy, Bogeya, JJ Abrams, and Rian Johnson or moron "writers" like Chuck Wendig verbally fighting and feuding with fans online across social media platforms like with Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and so forth. Bad publicity. So when you have a guy like Rian Johnson telling fans to fuck off or a former employee and "author" like Wendig telling people to die for having different political views or beliefs on where the franchise is headed, it has a domino effect of people talking with their wallets. TLJ had a -40% drop at the box office compared to TFA. TLJ did horrendously, taking over a year to do something like half the BD sales TFA did in its first three months when distributed after its original run in the theaters ended.

I won't even go into detail how handing an exclusivity contract of several years to Electronic Arts, one of the most predatory and anti-consumer as well as unethical gaming publishers was a fiasco by Disney. Much less the huge legal problems Disney and EA ended up falling into with the loot box fiasco and DLC nonsense with Battlefront 2 EA forcing Disney to take drastic measures with EA to avoid major lawsuits that were already happening to them in several European countries. There are not any good Star Wars games under Disney's helm, Battlefront 1 EA was terrible, Battlefront 2 EA barely qualifies as being an improvement in the most shallow sense possible over it. Seven years and not a single good game. Amazing.

Add to this, Disney has also completely alienated Japan from the franchise which was the biggest supporter of the franchise outside of the West and failed to remotely generate any sort of interest in it with China four times over from TFA to Solo.

Now no amount of mental gymnastics will ever change the fact there's an almost universal hatred of TLJ that exists both online or offline from the internet, the tens if not hundreds of thousands of reviews and complaints from people coming from all walks of like on Youtube, the film's massive drop on box office returns, the scathing commentary and fan reviews across Rotten Tomatoes and other aggregated sites like meta-critic, there's no real escaping this fact.

Even Rebels, the indirect sequel to The Clone Wars series, never EVER gained the same sort of traction, appeal, popularity or commercial success of its predecessor. And season 4 ended up with its ending being incredibly divisive and mixed from what I've seen and collected data wise on reactions and reception to the series conclusion. But Resistance? Another massive failure. One needs only look at the initial and still current response to the incredibly low budget visuals, insultingly bad production values, and complete inability to even remotely feel like something set in the Star Wars mythos. In fact if you don't want to take my word from it at face value, go check out Catalyst's Resistance thread and click on link to take you directly to the official youtube page for Resistance's trailer, there's still something like 130k dislikes to less than 15k likes from it and all the top comments are negative, no joke.

No, they reeling hard from TLJ.

There's no escaping this, there's no denying this. This film has so poisoned Star Wars that there seems to be little if any good will left with this franchise in Disney's hands. When you have a Star Wars film drop below 55% on RT and have your viral marketing team spout nonsense through proxies in Vox, Polygon, Kotaku (fucking Kotaku), claiming the "alt-right" and "Russian hackers" were deliberatively targeting the film with negative reviews based off sourceless information and no evidence to try and deflect its failings, you know the franchise is in very bad and dark place. Or the fact TLJ was embarrassed by a Jumanji reboot/sequel trashing it at the box office and eating HUGE into its sales and tickets. Well, there's no coming back from that. Also I'll say if anyone actually thinks the negative attitude toward the Disney SW universe is "a vocal minority", well they are sniffing glue or smoking crack, you don't get hundreds of thousands of people making these kind of written or video reviews hating on TLJ or Disney post-TFA by a minority of people.

Anyway I don't see how Episode IX will fix any of this, the damage is done. And I have a feeling this continuing downward spiral and trending of continually lowering box office expectations, the failure of the merchandise to move material supplementing the films and shows, and the overwhelming negative response just sees this franchise in a few years thrown into the dusty basement of Disney's old IPs and left to rot. There's nothing left to hope for with how Star Wars has been mutilated.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Megaharrison (Jan 13, 2019)

Of all the words put to mouth and pen, the saddest to hear is Fang was right agian


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> What a sad, pathetic childhood.
> 
> Well yes by your own logic on critics and audience score it does. But you only talked about the pre Disney films so that was where the argument was about. Besides once again, Ewok films were made for tv shit that were not comparable to big blockbusters like the rest. It is simply a desperate example, nothing else.



... You still you haven't figured out I was fucking with you? You're easy to bait...



> >liked
> Since when the hell does calling something Okay and Forgettable indicate I liked it dumbass?



'Okay' usually means 'you kind of liked it' in regards to film. If you don't know this, then calling anyone a dumbass if like the pot calling the kettle black.



> The only kind of people saying this shit are the same ones looking for a way out of addressing TLJ's faults by making  "objective" a dirty word implying that is not fair to use. It's bullshit because the fact remains films like The Last Jedi can be objectively said to be bad based on the numerous plot holes and bad writing obvious throughout the film.



You're trying to rewrite history with "The Clone Wars" movie, so I don't even think you know what "Objective" is.

Also -- dipshit, I was referring to film theory that has been around long before "The Last Jedi" was a thing.



> You only look stupid for stating something wrong. Last Jedi being objectively bad is just a fact.



Then stop posting wrong statements, then maybe you'll stop looking stupid.



> >gives people rep for calling his shit out
> >dares to use the word "soyboy" as if this shit here does not fit the very definition of it, especially as a SoyWars apologist



I still don't understand this ">" stuff.

Are you now insinuating that you're a soyboy? Cause as far as I noticed, you didn't neg rep me.


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> Actually, maybe "an average Star Wars film" is bad, considering you have the prequels, the Ewok movies, the Holiday Special, and the poorly received animated movie...That's 7 bad movies, 3 great ones...I didn't even include the NT, where every entry has been at least somewhat divisive.



The prequels aren’t awful. The clone wars movie was boring but not awful, and I haven’t even seen the Holiday special and ewok movies tbh. 

Phantom menace is still better than any of the new films besides rogue one imo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

Lol


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## Skaddix (Jan 13, 2019)

@Fang I wouldn't really put John on the same level you know given he gotten racist abuse from Day One. And unlike some of the other cast members not like he ran from social media either. Besides I don't really hold actors to the same level unless they go above and beyond you got play ball if you want to work and Disney is eating the whole damn industry. RJ though no defense for that. KK spent more hiding again not really defensible. Not to mention actors don't write them damn movie. Put any actors this and it still a shit plot, that destroys Luke Skywalker and has continuity breaking things.

Rebels is too kiddie and did bad power levels. They killed the top inquistor first and then we dealt with weaker ones so that just lame. Should have had a Barriss tie in. I mean flying with spinning lightsabers is like the nail in the coffin. Also Thrawn....always letting the heroes go cause plot

But as I said you put me in charge I simply have mined the best from the EU books, comics and videogames (mostly Old republic here).


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## Gaiash (Jan 13, 2019)

Fang said:


> There's no escaping this, there's no denying this.


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## Mickey Mouse (Jan 13, 2019)

Really? This thread......LIKE FUCK FOR REAL!?


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## The Runner (Jan 13, 2019)



Reactions: Like 2


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 13, 2019)

"I can try to deny this so he's wrong."


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> ... You still you haven't figured out I was fucking with you? You're easy to bait...


Fucking ironic since you are under the false belief I was ever taking you seriously.


MartialHorror said:


> 'Okay' usually means 'you kind of liked it' in regards to film. If you don't know this, then calling anyone a dumbass if like the pot calling the kettle black.


Wrong, okay means just okay. As in I did not care for it but did not hate it. You also convincingly left out "forgettable" which could not make it any more obvious I did not care for it. But keep doing as SoyWars apologists do and make up definitions to words you don't understand.



MartialHorror said:


> You're trying to rewrite history with "The Clone Wars" movie, so I don't even think you know what "Objective" is.


Fucking where? I never said anything about TCW movie other than just calling it okay and forgettable. Name one thing I said that is false there?


MartialHorror said:


> Also -- dipshit, I was referring to film theory that has been around long before "The Last Jedi" was a thing.


Well guess what Dipshit, that film theory is as bogus as the delusion that TLJ was anything but hot garbage.


MartialHorror said:


> Then stop posting wrong statements, then maybe you'll stop looking stupid.


Leave that advice to yourself nimrod


MartialHorror said:


> I still don't understand this ">" stuff.


You don't understand a lot of stuff based on your history.


MartialHorror said:


> Are you now insinuating that you're a soyboy? Cause as far as I noticed, you didn't neg rep me.


>literally reps me for calling his bullshit
>"hur dur i am nice only soyboys neg"
>calls that shit something only a soyboy would do
>pretends that I said not negging is soyboyish and not repping people who insult you

At this point you are just too pathetic and stupid to neg.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Fucking ironic since you are under the false belief I was ever taking you seriously.
> 
> Wrong, okay means just okay. As in I did not care for it but did not hate it. You also convincingly left out "forgettable" which could not make it any more obvious I did not care for it. But keep doing as SoyWars apologists do and make up definitions to words you don't understand.
> 
> ...



- Bitch please, I spend most of my time on NF heralding the greatness of the "Carnosaur" trilogy. You're not supposed to take me seriously. 

- I beg of you -- look up the word in the dictionary. Your definition of "Ok" is seriously mistaken. You can also like something that is forgettable; because most movies are forgettable. 

- Except it wasn't 'OK'. It was the most disliked Star Wars movie. I harp on this because you said something along the lines of 'I don't tolerate shit opinions' , yet you haven't given any indications that your own opinions aren't shit. 

- So in other words, you really just don't know much about film theory...or film in general if you really don't think standards and preferences change over time. 

- 'My history'? Based on what I've posted in the last 2 days? Or were you around when the fans and haters were doing this dance a year or two ago? The thing is...what have I actually said that was wrong? At no point have I ever even talked about the movie itself. I just pointed out that a bad SW movie is nothing new when you consider all of the TV specials...It would certainly be unreasonable hold them to the same standard, but it wouldn't be wrong either. I pointed out that "The Clone Wars" movie has the worst reception based on all the various websites haters use to bash "TLJ"...and I use the f@cking dictionary to define a word. 

All you do is dismiss shit as 'stupid', even though most of this 'argument' is rooted in your own ignorance of seemingly every topic that we stumble upon. In fact, since we started this tango, you've yet to make a single point or observation...outside of the fact that you're one of the few people who are apparently 'OK' with the Clone Wars movie. 

- Well, you can't give out rep to the same person in quick succession...


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

Funny you want to talk about like/dislike numbers for TCW movie when it’s not that much lower than TLJ

Most people’s problem is expecting TCWM to be episode nine. It’s an extended tcw episode at best

It’s budget wasn’t even that much higher than three episodes of tcw and the movie even had multiple actors reprising their roles

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rukia (Jan 13, 2019)

The Last Jedi is the most hated major release in a number of years.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> The prequels aren’t awful. The clone wars movie was boring but not awful, and I haven’t even seen the Holiday special and ewok movies tbh.
> 
> Phantom menace is still better than any of the new films besides rogue one imo



lol, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the prequels, but I was mostly joking around. 

I do kind of regret throwing "Revenge of the Sith" in there though, as it's the only prequel I think has aged...decently...



Kaaant said:


> Funny you want to talk about like/dislike numbers for TCW movie when it’s not that much lower than TLJ
> 
> Most people’s problem is expecting TCWM to be episode nine. It’s an extended tcw episode at best



You're missing my point. I'm not really here to defend "TLJ". I've played that game and all it does is take more time than I'm willing to give. I don't care that you or NostalgiaFan hate it and I agree that the film probably did damage the brand. 

I only harp on NostalgiaFan's opinion of TCWM and its general reception because he's a smug dick, with limited knowledge of the medium he lords over. If he thinks it's OK, then who really gives a f@ck about everyone else's opinions? We have all liked movies that were disliked -- if not outright hated -- by the masses. It's just part of cinema being an artform. But NostalgiaFan is just too stubborn and so is now back pedaling, pretending that 'OK' doesn't mean satisfactory, dismissing film theories that are staples of the industry. 

So I was only really debating him over these points...because he's a douche who inadvertently exposed something I could mock him for...TCWM being bad wouldn't make TLJ any better, so normally I wouldn't use websites like RT, Cinemascore, etc. that way. 

By the way, did you use to post here under a different name? For some reason, you're writing style looks familiar, but I can't recall ever interacting with a user called 'Kaaant'.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - Bitch please, I spend most of my time on NF heralding the greatness of the "Carnosaur" trilogy. You're not supposed to take me seriously.


Than quit pretending I do, schmuck.


MartialHorror said:


> - I beg of you -- look up the word in the dictionary. Your definition of "Ok" is seriously mistaken. You can also like something that is forgettable; because most movies are forgettable.


>trying this hard to be a stingy fuck to get me to act like I ever said I liked TCW movie

Look up the definition of desperate instead, you fit it to a T.


MartialHorror said:


> - Except it wasn't 'OK'. It was the most disliked Star Wars movie.


Bullshit. TCW movie was barely watched by anyone and most of the negatives come from critics while audiences did not like it or did not care.

TLJ on the other hand is the most hated, from the thousands of users on RT and other sites who hate it, to the negative impact it has on the franchise that TCW does not even measure up to, you would have to be mentally retarded to call TCW the worst when TLJ had damaged the franchise for years to come, both in Box office sales, and merchandise.


MartialHorror said:


> I harp on this because you said something along the lines of 'I don't tolerate shit opinions' , yet you haven't given any indications that your own opinions aren't shit.


Says the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) defending TLJ. You are in no position to talk.


MartialHorror said:


> - So in other words, you really just don't know much about film theory


I don't give a shit about your "film Theory" if it is pushing this narrative that "objective" is bad, it is a dumb way at judging films. Shit, why the the hell should any of us give a shit about this "film theory"? You keep harping on about it like it is some sacred law when I have not heard a single damn thing to make me care.


MartialHorror said:


> - 'My history'? Based on what I've posted in the last 2 days?


Based on every time I have seen you post in this forum for the past years, You keep pushing the same retarded arguments over and over and it starts to show how much you really do not know what you are talking about, like right now.


MartialHorror said:


> All you do is dismiss shit as 'stupid', even though most of this 'argument' is rooted in your own ignorance


Don't talk to me of ignorance when you pretend to act like the TLJ is not the worst film in the SW series.


MartialHorror said:


> you've yet to make a single point or observation


As if you have you blind pompous cunt 

Only thing close to observation you have pulled has been the same kind that destroys your own argument. Most of what you say is nothing but word salad and fluff while repeatedly harping non about me supposedly liking TCW movie because you have no fucking argument for anything else. You have not done shit to disprove the other side's argument of how TLJ is objectively the worst or why the "average SW film" is bad while spouting your dumbass rhetoric on some "film theory" hit as if anyone gives a fuck.


MartialHorror said:


> - Well, you can't give out rep to the same person in quick succession...


You're not worth rep, either positive or negative


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## The Runner (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> I pointed out that "The Clone Wars" movie has the worst reception based on all the various websites haters use to bash "TLJ"...and I use the f@cking dictionary to define a word.


No. That’s Attack of the Clones. Nobody talks about the Clone Wars years after its release, because it’s overshadowed by its more impressive tvshow spinoff. The movie was essentially a pilot for the tvshow.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Than quit pretending I do, schmuck.
> 
> >trying this hard to be a stingy fuck to get me to act like I ever said I liked TCW movie
> 
> ...



- Nice attempt at deflection, but...that's all it is.

- Eh? The negative reviews came from critics and audiences didn't like it or did not care...Because with most bad movies, they usually get negative reviews and audiences either don't like them or don't care....

- I'm not defending TLJ.

- Because it sort of defines how film works? It's why audiences turned from black-and-white to color, from silent films to talkies, from theatrical performances to nuanced ones...Maybe even include from stop motion to practical effects to CGI in this list, although that's tricky.

- I've never tried to disprove the argument, because I don't have any staked in it. If you knew how to read, I've been saying this entire time that it's pointless to argue that something is objectively superior or inferior in an artform because the standards will always change -- oh fuck me, why am I bothering? You're probably just some teenager riding a bandwagon.

I've obviously triggered you, so drawing inspiration from Fang here, I accept your concession.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - Nice attempt at deflection, but...that's all it is.


There is nothing to deflect, it's all in your head.


MartialHorror said:


> - Eh? The negative reviews came from critics and audiences didn't like it or did not care...Because with most bad movies, they usually get negative reviews and audiences either don't like them or don't care....


Compare the amount of people hating on TCW to the amount that hate TLJ, than come back and tell me how the former is more hated than the later.


MartialHorror said:


> - I'm not defending TLJ.


Yes you are, don't fucking lie. You defended it from the get go when you praised it on release and right now you are trying to argue it is not objectively bad. At least act like you are not dumber than you really are.



MartialHorror said:


> - Because it sort of defines how film works?


Where? You have literately explained nothing.


MartialHorror said:


> - I've never tried to disprove the argument, because I don't have any staked in it.


More like "because I have no way to refute it" if you had no stake you would not even be bothering with posting here.


MartialHorror said:


> I've been saying this entire time that it's pointless to argue that something is objectively superior or inferior in an artform because the standards will always change


And I told you repeatedly that is retarded. You can objectively argue something is good or bad and using "Standards will always change" is flawed because shit like say Hands of Manos is objectively terrible regardless of how the times change and thinking otherwise is just being subjective for the hell of it.


MartialHorror said:


> -- oh fuck me, why am I bothering? You're probably just some teenager riding a bandwagon.


^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) please, If I was in a bandwagon I would have been one of the many praising TFA as some masterpiece of film making when the first time I saw it I was meh for the most part.

And only the mentally insecure actually try to use the Age argument seriously.


MartialHorror said:


> I've obviously triggered you, so drawing inspiration from Fang here, I accept your concession.


I love watching pretentious douchebags project their own feelings on others while unironically using "concession accepted" as a way to get out of an argument they are badly losing.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Jan 13, 2019)

You should do this thing where  you stop obeying the programming and start using your head and looking at the facts as they are.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> You should do this thing where  you stop obeying the programming and start using your head and looking at the facts as they are.


NPCs don't know how to do that Watchdog.


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

Please post the gif again Gay Ash


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> There is nothing to deflect, it's all in your head.
> 
> *Compare the amount of people hating on TCW to the amount that hate TLJ, than come back and tell me how the former is more hated than the later.
> 
> ...



- I'm not saying that there aren't more TLJ haters than TCWM haters, if only because of the amount of people who saw it....but isn't this contradicting your argument about how I should not compare the smaller movies to the bigger ones? 

- I defended it...2 years ago? That's your trumpcard? That I defended it 2 years ago? 

- Honestly, I only came back to this thread because I was wondering who would bother talking about this movie after all this time...then I wanted to amuse myself...Come on, kid, this debate hasn't been going on that long. Go find where I defend TLJ. 

- Do you know what's funny? You bringing up Manos kind of proves my point. It has developed a following because of its badness; just like "Plan 9 from Outer Space"; just like "Troll 2", etc. When it came to campy, incompetent films, times changed to favor those just enough to where people started to enjoy them on some level. It's why people remember them and not "Death Nurse". Also -- TLJ and Manos are wildly different films going for wildly different experiences. 

- Was there really a bandwagon with TFA? People liked it, but it neither inspire the same passion as TLJ. You can give me shit for praising the movie...2 f@cking years ago...but at least I presented my own arguments. I obviously left a bigger impression on you than you did on me; as I had no idea who you were up until the other day. Yet you remember me from years ago. All you've done is rehash other peoples points, using buzz words like 'Objective' that you probably heard from a more knowledgeable hater.


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## Gaiash (Jan 13, 2019)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> You should do this thing where  you stop obeying the programming and start using your head and looking at the facts as they are.


Programming? So your insult is to call me a robot?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 13, 2019)



Reactions: Like 1


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - I'm not saying that there aren't more TLJ haters than TCWM haters, if only because of the amount of people who saw it....but isn't this contradicting your argument about how I should not compare the smaller movies to the bigger ones?


No because those smaller movies were barely even movies, Just tv specials that are in no way comparable to big budget flicks. They are and will always be, far off and desperate examples.


MartialHorror said:


> - I defended it...2 years ago? That's your trumpcard? That I defended it 2 years ago?


You still are neanderthal.You are literally arguing against it being objectively bad using dumbass strawman points and "evidence" that contradicts your point far more than it does mine. 


MartialHorror said:


> - Honestly, I only came back to this thread because I was wondering who would bother talking about this movie after all this time


More "I am just curious and want to amuse myself with you lower people" shit that no one but you seriously believe. If you really did not give a shit, you would not be here at all.


MartialHorror said:


> - Do you know what's funny? You bringing up Manos kind of proves my point. It has developed a following because of its badness


No... that disproves your point imbecile.  You were babbling on about "objectivity" and how you can't say something is objectively bad but even in your "following" you admit it has to do with it being bad which supports my point. No one seriously thinks Manos is anything but awful, they follow it to mock it because it is by all definition objectively bad. 

How the fuck do you get it that wrong?


MartialHorror said:


> - Was there really a bandwagon with TFA? People liked it, but it neither inspire the same passion as TLJ.


Quit fucking lying. Almost everyone and their mother were talking about how awesome it was and when people came along to criticize it they were hounded down and trash talked. Only later down the line, but especially after TLJ did it even start being criticized as heavily as it is now without people being bashed for doing so. You are really pushing this shit as if TFA did not have that much of an impact when it made more than 2 billion dollars at the box office, compared to TLJ which made only half( which only shows how much it killed the ST's momentum).


MartialHorror said:


> You can give me shit for praising the movie...2 f@cking years ago...but at least I presented my own arguments.


>as if the other side did not

You really live in your own world don't you?


MartialHorror said:


> I obviously left a bigger impression on you than you did on me


It's called having a memory Sherlock. I have been in this place for 3 years by now and hanged around this section for a bit so of course I start to notice people when they post as often as you do. But keep wanking yourself if you seriously think that is a sign of me "triggered" by you and not just you clearly letting your reputation get the best of you.

Especially hilarious since you act like Fang left a far bigger impression on you since you never shut up about himKappa


MartialHorror said:


> All you've done is rehash other peoples points, using buzz words like 'Objective' that you probably heard from a more knowledgeable hater.


Keep projecting apologist. I held this views before and with out anyone needing to tell me otherwise. While you go and regurgitate what you heard of this "film Theory" I just call shit as I see it and from the very moment I saw TLJ I thought it was trash.

But you keep buying your own bullshit and pretend it is real.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> *No because those smaller movies were barely even movies, Just tv specials that are in no way comparable to big budget flicks. They are and will always be, far off and desperate examples.*
> 
> You still are neanderthal.You are literally arguing against it being objectively bad using dumbass strawman points and "evidence" that contradicts your point far more than it does mine.
> 
> ...



- Isn't TCWM supposed to be a pilot for a TV show? Didn't it have a budget of like 8 million?

- I didn't say you were 'lower people'.

- Oi, this must be some selective reading going on. You are deliberately misinterpreting my point.

- Do I need to educate you on what lying is too? I was asking whether or not there was a bandwagon for TFA and observed that it didn't inspire as much passion as TLJ. Even upon release, everyone felt it was too safe and similar to the original film, even if they still liked it. At the absolute worst, I'm mistaken. Not 'lying', but keep trying to fake a narrative so you don't look as bad.

- On the contrary, Fang, Imagine, Kuroneko (sp?) and others had their own arguments, even if I had even nastier fights with them. Even Suigetsu had some points. I am saying YOU don't have your own argument.

- You've obviously been triggered, lad, considering how angry your posts are. It's alright though; you'll probably grow out of it. And for the record -- Fang did leave a big impression on me. Why would I have any problem admitting that? He practically ran this thread for a year.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

Star Wars didn't kill Toys-R-Us. Bane Capital's leveraged buyout killed the company was a death sentence that prevented Toys R Us from innovating and responding to a changing marketplace.


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2019)

"The tens of millions of dollars of failed Star Wars merchandise had no impact on Toys R Us bankruptcy claims at all or the requirement that Kenner and Hasbro had to break changed deal with Disney over licensing rights and fees with Star Wars continual drop in brand sales with its products. "

Classic apologism.


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2019)

Don't even know why I'm responding when I said I wouldn't to this guy of all people. Disney's own financial report for its earnings with Star Wars covering fiscal year 2018 reported a -4% loss compared to last year and an overall trend of -20% since 2015 with TFA despite launching a new TV series (Resistance), and two films (TLJ and Solo). Writing is on the wall for everyone to see why things are very bad with this franchise.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

Fang said:


> "The tens of millions of dollars of failed Star Wars merchandise had no impact on Toys R Us bankruptcy claims at all or the requirement that Kenner and Hasbro had to break changed deal with Disney over licensing rights and fees with Star Wars continual drop in brand sales with its products. "
> 
> Classic apologism.



Why did you bother to put quotation marks around a paragraph that you wrote? You aren't quoting anybody.

The answer to the question is yes, Toys R Us' bankruptcy had nothing to do with Star Wars, just like tens of millions of dollars of other merchandise didn't have an impact on Toys R Us closing.  Overstocked items would have been liquidated eventually either way, and they already had the deals in place to sell off their overstock as part of their business plan. Toys R Us sold almost every toy brand that was out at the time. Why not blame the closure on 10s of millions of unsold Jurassic World toys, which would have been a lot more relevant at the time Toys R Us actually closed.

Your using an Anecdote as Evidence, which isn't valid, because at the time of Toys R Us closed they had Billions of dollars in inventory, across multiple categories and a failure to sell in just one wouldn't have caused them to close.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - Isn't TCWM supposed to be a pilot for a TV show? Didn't it have a budget of like 8 million?


8 million? that shit is cheap as fuck compared to most blockbusters even back than.


MartialHorror said:


> - I didn't say you were 'lower people'.


Uh no shit Sherlock? It was a jab at your pompous attitude. Read between the lines doofus.


MartialHorror said:


> - Oi, this must be some selective reading going on. You are deliberately misinterpreting my point.


More self projection. Neat.


MartialHorror said:


> - Do I need to educate you on what lying is too? I was asking whether or not there was a bandwagon for TFA and observed that it didn't inspire as much passion as TLJ.


Except the fact it made far more than TLJ says the exact opposite dude.


MartialHorror said:


> Even upon release, everyone felt it was too safe and similar to the original film, even if they still liked it.


Those were small criticisms that they put out as a more of a nitpick than actual flaws. They were expecting the next film to make up for them, it did not and therefore TFA is now getting more criticisms than it received at it's opening. People with real issues with the film or people who were more negative to it were blasted with dislikes and hatred by the movie's defenders. I was there when all this shit was going around dude. Don't pretend it was anything less than what ti was. 

Just look at these videos like and dislike ratio and see for yourself, the first was made right around the time it was released and the second was released only half a year later.

"everyone" my ass.


MartialHorror said:


> I am saying YOU don't have your own argument.


Bullshit. I have made my argument over why TLJ is an objectively bad film plenty of times in the past, hell I just did in this thread yesterday, but you conveniently ignore that to spew your narrative of me not having one. Does not work bub.


MartialHorror said:


> - You've obviously been triggered, lad, considering how angry your posts are.





MartialHorror said:


> Also -- *dipshit*, I was referring to film theory that has been around long before "The Last Jedi" was a thing.





MartialHorror said:


> Then stop posting wrong statements, then maybe you'll stop looking stupid.





MartialHorror said:


> - *Bitch please*, I spend most of my time on NF heralding the greatness of the "Carnosaur" trilogy. You're not supposed to take me seriously.


If you are going to continue to act like you are being "mature" or "calm" while hypocritical doing the opposite while criticizing others for the same


Don't. You only make a clown of yourself.



MartialHorror said:


> It's alright though; you'll probably grow out of it.


The more passive aggressive you are the more blatantly mad you make yourself to be


MartialHorror said:


> And for the record -- Fang did leave a big impression on me. Why would I have any problem admitting that? He practically ran this thread for a year.


You literally used my own words after than criticizing me for the same thing like it did not make you look like an even bigger hypocrite than you already are.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 13, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> Star Wars didn't kill Toys-R-Us. Bane Capital's leveraged buyout killed the company was a death sentence that prevented Toys R Us from innovating and responding to a changing marketplace.



As it happens, Toys "R" Us Canada is alive and well, and the stores in the US are apparently planning to re-open in the future:


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## The Runner (Jan 13, 2019)




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## Fang (Jan 13, 2019)

> Still, the timing of this move means the new company misses the critical holiday season,* in which 34 percent of Toys ‘R’ Us merchandise is typically sold, giving it a tough three quarters of 2019 to slog through till holiday 2019.*”
> 
> *Toys has sold all of its stores and distribution centers, with some of the most valuable retail space going to a separate group of secured creditors. Other stores were either taken over by landlords or the leases sold to other retailers.*


*
*
Its always lovely when the guy who claimed the alt-right was behind TLJ's universal negative score on RT  cherrypicks information brings the 'truth' here. Must be lonely being by oneself in that Resistance thread where no one else is posting or giving a shit about that abortion of a CGI series.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)



Reactions: Like 1


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

Catalyst75 said:


> As it happens, Toys "R" Us Canada is alive and well, and the stores in the US are apparently planning to re-open in the future:



Nice


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> SNIP





> Still, the timing of this move means the new company misses the critical holiday season,* in which 34 percent of Toys ‘R’ Us merchandise is typically sold, giving it a tough three quarters of 2019 to slog through till holiday 2019.*”
> 
> *Toys has sold all of its stores and distribution centers, with some of the most valuable retail space going to a separate group of secured creditors. Other stores were either taken over by landlords or the leases sold to other retailers.*


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> *8 million? that shit is cheap as fuck compared to most blockbusters even back than.*
> 
> Uh no shit Sherlock? It was a jab at your pompous attitude. Read between the lines doofus.
> 
> ...



- That's...what I was saying? It was low budgeted. 

- Financial gain does not equate to a fanbase being passionate. "Fast and the Furious" and "Transformers" are wildly successful franchises, but is anyone really passionate about them? Or do you think 'passionate' is always a good thing? I am saying that people are passionate about "TLJ"...they can passionately hate it.

- I'm not really sure what you're referring too...The sentence is so jumbled that it's incomprehensible.


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 13, 2019)

strongarm85 said:


> Nice



Yep. So, I wish the US brand of Toys "R" Us luck in getting back up on its feet.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 13, 2019)

Fang said:


> Its always lovely when the guy who claimed the alt-right was behind TLJ's universal negative score on RT  cherrypicks information brings the 'truth' here. Must be lonely being by oneself in that Resistance thread where no one else is posting or giving a shit about that abortion of a CGI series.



Quoted text has nothing to do with Star Wars Fang. Come back when you have actual evidence to support your Toys are us claim.


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


>



It’s actually 45%


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

91% vs 45%

I smell horseshit


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - That's...what I was saying? It was low budgeted.


Yes and? it was still a theatrical film. And I doubt the Ewok films compared to TCW was even that expansive when they were made.


MartialHorror said:


> - Financial gain does not equate to a fanbase being passionate.


It does when you need the amount of people to give you that financial gain.


MartialHorror said:


> "Fast and the Furious" and "Transformers" are wildly successful franchises, but is anyone really passionate about them?


Clearly they are since so many people go to see them every year.:gitgud


MartialHorror said:


> Or do you think 'passionate' is always a good thing? I am saying that people are passionate about "TLJ"...they can passionately hate it.


And passionately love it, like they did for TFA before the hype died down and they began to see the flaws. Which is my point, fans were passionate about TFA as critics were passionate about their hatred of TLJ.


MartialHorror said:


> - I'm not really sure what you're referring too.


Look up the definition of hypocrite. That should help.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 13, 2019)

Both of these are real btw


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)




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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

Megaharrison said:


> Both of these are real btw


Holy shit I did not even think it could be that bad.


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## Kaaant (Jan 13, 2019)

Hahahahaha


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

Kaaant said:


> Hahahahaha


He really makes it too easy doesn't he?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> Yes and? it was still a theatrical film. And I doubt the Ewok films compared to TCW was even that expansive when they were made.
> 
> It does when you need the amount of people to give you that financial gain.
> 
> ...



- So what are you trying to argue here? You keep flip flopping between "it's low budgeted so doesn't count" and "it's a theatrical film, so it counts"? Does make me wonder how much the Ewok movies cost though. 

- All those big bucks mean is people wanted to see it, not that they were passionate about it.

- lol, technically, the critics seemed to be the ones who universally liked TLJ...Isn't that why you guys like to claim they were bought off by Disney?

- It says...NostalgiaFan...

But it doesn't make this sentence "*You literally used my own words after than criticizing me for the same thing like it did not make you look like an even bigger hypocrite than you already are.*" any more coherent.


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## Fang (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> He really makes it too easy doesn't he?



He had to delete over 20,000 of his tweets archived on twitter to avoid getting fired like Chuck Wendig did recently.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - So what are you trying to argue here? You keep flip flopping between "it's low budgeted so doesn't count" and "it's a theatrical film, so it counts"?


No where have I ever flopped. I have always stated that TW being released theatrically makes it more viable as a SW movie than something made entirely for TV liek the Holiday special or Ewok movies.


MartialHorror said:


> - All those big bucks mean is people wanted to see it, not that they were passionate about it.


Dude have you no fucking idea about the very simple concept of "Watching it again"? people were constantly going around buying tickets over and over watching said movies which is what helped their box office numbers. Or the previous examples I shown of negative videos getting mass disliked around the time of it's release and shortly after?


MartialHorror said:


> - lol, technically, the critics seemed to be the ones who universally liked TLJ...Isn't that why you guys like to claim they were bought off by Disney?


>purposely missing the point this bad

You know damn well the critics I am talking about are the ones in the audience Martial, try harder at missing the point without making it obvious.


And you sure as hell are blind as fuck if you still don't think that these highly bought out film critics being paid off by the mouse is just a claim, it's not, it's just a fact.


MartialHorror said:


> - It says...NostalgiaFan...


>no u

I am starting to wonder who is really the six year old, Rian Johnson or you.


MartialHorror said:


> "more babbling"


Let me explain it  toyou since you are being this obtuse on purpose.


MartialHorror said:


> I've obviously triggered you, so drawing inspiration from Fang here, I accept your concession.


Accusation of me being "triggered".


NostalgiaFan said:


> I love watching pretentious douchebags project their own feelings on others while unironically using "concession accepted" as a way to get out of an argument they are badly losing.


Me calling it self projection


MartialHorror said:


> -I obviously left a bigger impression on you than you did on me


Continual pushing of false narrative.


NostalgiaFan said:


> It's called having a memory Sherlock. I have been in this place for 3 years by now and hanged around this section for a bit so of course I start to notice people when they post as often as you do. But keep wanking yourself if you seriously think that is a sign of me "triggered" by you and not just you clearly letting your reputation get the best of you.
> 
> Especially hilarious since you act like Fang left a far bigger impression on you since you never shut up about himKappa


Me stating why I knew of you from back than due to your activity in this forum and why said narrative has no validity, while calling out your hypocrisy in that you are obsessed with mentioning Fang whenever you post.





MartialHorror said:


> - You've obviously been triggered, lad, considering how angry your posts are. It's alright though; you'll probably grow out of it. And for the record -- Fang did leave a big impression on me. Why would I have any problem admitting that? He practically ran this thread for a year.


More pushing of said narrative while than using the exact same argument I just did in the same post to try to defend yourself from your obsession with Fang which goes back to my previous point.


NostalgiaFan said:


> You literally used my own words after than criticizing me for the same thing like it did not make you look like an even bigger hypocrite than you already are.



tl;dr You have accused me of being obsessed by you for me mentioning stuff in the past when I stated it was because of your activity I remembered them and after calling you out on your hypocrisy involving the same thing with Fang you proceed to use the same point while pushing the same nonsense on me, blatantly contradicting your very own argument.

I'll be waiting to see your response, just to laugh at whatever bullshit you pull once more to defend your sham of an argument.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> *No where have I ever flopped. I have always stated that TW being released theatrically makes it more viable as a SW movie than something made entirely for TV liek the Holiday special or Ewok movies.*
> 
> *Dude have you no fucking idea about the very simple concept of "Watching it again"? *people were constantly going around buying tickets over and over watching said movies which is what helped their box office numbers. Or the previous examples I shown of negative videos getting mass disliked around the time of it's release and shortly after?
> 
> ...



- Okay, got it.

- I'm not denying that there are going to be repeat viewings, but how many people went to see it twice? I'm curious if this is something you can prove.

- I was being a smart-ass. You're taking me seriously again.

- At least I have a basic understanding of spelling, grammar and sentence structure...and say what you will about Rian Johnson -- whether he's a hack or not -- he knows how to direct a movie. Have you ever been on an actual set? Even for the shitty ones, that shits all chaos and a director has to reign it in. There's a reason why bad directors keep getting work; they turn in products on time, on budget. So you're the child of us three...and probably the rest of this thread...

As for your last diatribe, you're coming off as more incoherent. I think I've figured it out, but all it does is draw attention to how triggered you are. Ignoring the aggressive, bitter tone of your posts, you're reacting to my posts instead of really reading them. Either you're not that bright or you're too pissed to think straight.

Or maybe you just don't know how to debate.

There is nothing wrong with you remembering who I am, but -- and listen to this closely -- what I said 2 years ago is irrelevant. My opinions have changed and even then, have little to do with what we've been discussing right now. So remembering Fang isn't hypocritical; but using shit he said 1-2 years ago against him would be.
Do I need to teach you about logical fallacies too?

And did I say you were obsessed with me? I think I just said 'I left a bigger impression on you than you did on me', but considering how this is the point you're freaking out over -- I'm getting a little worried that you are.


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 13, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> -- I'm not denying that there are going to be repeat viewings, but how many people went to see it twice? I'm curious if this is something you can prove.


>needing to prove why a film that made around 2.3 billion dollars had people pay to see it more than once



I mean friends and family alike I saw kept going to see it more than once and people all across online kept saying they did, not to mention I never gave a single number so why you think I need to "prove" something I myself ever gave a number to. Nor was that even my main argument since the fan worship and reaction to any negative criticism was the main point I brought which I showed you with clear examples you have ignored.


MartialHorror said:


> - I was being a smart-ass. You're taking me seriously again.


>outright say you are missing the point on purpose
>"hur dur you are taking me seriously"

You are the only one taking yourself seriously here Martial.


MartialHorror said:


> " hur dur muh spelling, grammar and sentence structure"


It's hilarious how you cannot name a single example of my "bad spelling" while you keep shoving this irrelevant spiel down my throat as if it is anything but word salad to compensate for your lack of a valid point.


MartialHorror said:


> As for your last diatribe, you're coming off as more incoherent.


Says the same retard who is just throwing the same shit on the wall over and over hoping it sticks.


MartialHorror said:


> "muh triggered, muh butter and angry, muh poisoning  the well"


I have never seen a more delusional, hypocritical individual on this site than I have you. That is some accomplishment.


MartialHorror said:


> Or maybe you just don't know how to debate.


Says the guy outright ignoring my examples while bringing nothing but petty potshots and obscure desperate examples that have virtually fuck all to do with anything to bring to the debate table.  You have zero authority on this matter shit for brains.


MartialHorror said:


> and listen to this closely -- what I said 2 years ago is irrelevant.


Not so when you do not change in the last 2 years. And again, hypocritical concerning your feelings on Fang.


MartialHorror said:


> Do I need to teach you about logical fallacies too?


Like the ones you pulled right now? 


MartialHorror said:


> And did I say you were obsessed with me? I think I just said 'I left a bigger impression on you than you did on me'


Wording it differently does not change it. Try harder.


MartialHorror said:


> but considering how this is the point you're freaking out over -- I'm getting a little worried that you are.


Once again, more self projection. You really have issues with this you know that? seems to me you are the one that should worry people. And even more hilarious how you try to act like you are some fucking psychiatrist and yet you have been responding as much as I have, as if you are not guilty of the same thing by your own words.

You SoyWars fanboys just can't handle taking the L can you?


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## MartialHorror (Jan 13, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> >needing to prove why a film that made around 2.3 billion dollars had people pay to see it more than once
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- So your basing it on personal experience; fair enough, but I was hoping for something a little more concrete. I'm genuinely curious how much of a difference it would be

- Then why do I make you angry?

- What examples am I ignoring? What would you like me to specifically address? Once again, how is it hypocritical that I remember Fang? When I'm not using his past against him?

- What logical fallacies did I just pull?

Add 'obsession' to the number of words you don't know the definition of. 

And seriously, dude? Petty potshots? Coming from the guy who throws around '^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)' and 'retard' every other post?


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## NostalgiaFan (Jan 14, 2019)

MartialHorror said:


> - So your basing it on personal experience; fair enough, but I was hoping for something a little more concrete. I'm genuinely curious how much of a difference it would be


So once again, you ignore the videos I posted and only focus on the tiny irrelevant detail.


MartialHorror said:


> - Then why do I make you angry?


You're the one sounding angry to me, I am just starting to find you annoying and boring by now.


MartialHorror said:


> - What examples am I ignoring?


The videos, I already said this.


MartialHorror said:


> Once again, how is it hypocritical that I remember Fang?


Because you act as if me remembering one thing you did in the past is a sign of me being "triggered" by you when outside of this section I have never so much as mention you, where as you never shut up about Fang.


MartialHorror said:


> When I'm not using his past against him?


>implying you are not arguing the same shit you did years ago
Martial pls.


MartialHorror said:


> What logical fallacies did I just pull?


Poisoning the well. And here you acted like you were the expert on them.


MartialHorror said:


> Add 'obsession' to the number of words you don't know the definition of.


>always mentions Fang even when he is not talking to him
>not fitting the definition of obsessed
You're not fooling anyone but yourself here.


MartialHorror said:


> And seriously, dude? Petty potshots? Coming from the guy who throws around '^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)' and 'retard' every other post?


I don't mind using them, just at least have something to back them up. So far you have done nothing but throw out word vomit and no sources to your claim while I at least backed up my insults with videos and others already showed evidence of the negative effects TLJ and Disney in general has had on the franchise anyway like the shit to do with Toys R Us and the like. You have nothing.


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## MartialHorror (Jan 14, 2019)

NostalgiaFan said:


> So once again, you ignore the videos I posted and only focus on the tiny irrelevant detail.
> 
> You're the one sounding angry to me, I am just starting to find you annoying and boring by now.
> 
> ...



So let me get this straight...you cry when I point out that you just rehash other peoples opinions and then...you post someone else's opinions? Okay, now I am getting angry, lol. Also, have you noticed that you reference Fang a lot more than I do?

You're also getting confused. I haven't contested Disney's effect on the franchise; someone else was fighting that battle. You seem to have mixed up the 'you're triggered' and the 'I left a bigger impression on you than you did on me' points. I even went back and checked; I said you were 'triggered' when you started ranting about the film theory. 

Add 'poisoning the well' to your list of things you need explained to you, but you and I both know that you're only namedropping that one because you've heard it in the thread before. 

Anyway -- unless you have some insightful or interesting to say, I'm done. This "debate" has gotten so messy that I'm having to check 3 posts back to get some context as to WTF you're talking about.


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## Sennin of Hardwork (Jan 14, 2019)

Was planning on locking up this thread once IX's trailer came out as some suggested back last year, however, after seeing how this entire last weekend the topic was brought again and the tone and negative atmosphere hasn't cooled down in the slightiest of over a year since the movie came out (leading to all kind of demeaning insults and even allegories comparing opposing posters to *shopping mall shooters*) just leaves me with no choice but to put an end to this. If those of you that are too passionate about this franchise can't find it in yourself to act mature in the discussions and withhold from crossing boundaries over a piece of fiction then measures will start to be taken. 

Take a breath. And may the Force be with you.

Reactions: Like 2


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