# Elsa (Frozen) vs Naruto (MoT)



## Napcom (Jan 10, 2014)

How far does she get? 
She was able to freeze a small kingdom over in a matter of 15 seconds or so, she can create temperatures so cold it turn steel brittle in less than a second.

(Speed equalized)

*bloodlusted with knowledge on*


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## Expelsword (Jan 10, 2014)

She probably dies in less than a second.


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## Stunna (Jan 10, 2014)

Why would you do this to Elsa?


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## FireEel (Jan 11, 2014)

Pfffft Naruto is no match for the Snow Queen. Look, she even froze hell itself.

Seriously though, why no speed equal?


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## Napcom (Jan 11, 2014)

My bad, I forgot  to mention speed equal if needed...which it is.


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## Napcom (Jan 12, 2014)

Was it too late, did I ruin the thread?


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## familyparka (Jan 13, 2014)

Nah, just edit the OP


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 13, 2014)

I feel really stupid, but what is MoT?


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## Deleted member 45015 (Jan 13, 2014)

Sloth said:


> I feel really stupid, but what is MoT?



*M*ethod *o*f *T*est.

Used on new characters/fiction to ascertain how good they may or may not be without the OP being torn to pieces if it's a one-sided curbstomp.


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## Solrac (Jan 13, 2014)

^ Can't believe I didn't get that one either. I know what Method of Test is, but from all my years of lurking here since late 2008, I never see anyone make a Naruto/HST thread with "MoT" in the title.

Anyways, Elsa shoves a giant ice dildo up Naruto's pansy ass.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2014)

Konohamaru bunshin feint saves the day


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## Lucaniel (Jan 13, 2014)

i thought MoT was some new arc in naruto tbh

people don't generally abbreviate method of test in their title like that


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## Napcom (Jan 13, 2014)

familyparka said:


> Nah, just edit the OP



Done, and nice set.



Pecola said:


> Anyways, Elsa shoves a giant ice dildo up Naruto's pansy ass.



Would it be that one sided?


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## familyparka (Jan 13, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Done, and nice set.



Thank you :3


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## Solrac (Jan 13, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Would it be that one sided?



Yes. 

I was just making a one-liner where any new quality character stomps Naruto in my opinion.


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 13, 2014)

Naruto kills himself for sucking so much. 

Haven't actually seen Frozen yet. Waiting for the dvd. But she's very probably balls at projectiles, as I'm told she was captured by dropping her castle's ice chandelier on her.

In nothing else, Madara, provided he doesn't kill himself for the unforgivable crimes of being an Uchiha and being a shitty character, just drops a meteor on her and calls it a day.

Or Nagato, provided he doesn't kill himself for being a shitty character, Shinra Tenseis a nail or something at her.

Or Temari's slicey wind attacks...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 13, 2014)

or Konohamarus ... something or other


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## Napcom (Jan 13, 2014)

Onomatopoeia said:


> I'm told she was captured by dropping her castle's ice chandelier on her.




That was heavily plot induced.

She's able to make ice shields as well


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## FireEel (Jan 13, 2014)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Naruto kills himself for sucking so much.
> 
> Haven't actually seen Frozen yet. Waiting for the dvd. But she's very probably balls at projectiles, as I'm told she was captured by dropping her castle's ice chandelier on her.
> 
> ...



I think if any more Frozen threads pop up, then an Elsa respect thread is in order.

Thus far Elsa's best reaction feat is of her ice shields activating automatically to a crossbow bolt fired from 3 meters away.

Anyway, it's true that Elsa lacks durability. With the exception of cold and ice elements, she is pretty much just an ordinary person in damage soak. The ice chandelier thing happened when she was distracted however, and she had not mastered her powers yet.

Elsa disabled her attackers in mere seconds when she was serious.


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 13, 2014)

FireEel said:


> I think if any more Frozen threads pop up, then *an Elsa respect thread is in order.
> *
> Thus far Elsa's best reaction feat is of her ice shields activating automatically to a crossbow bolt fired from 3 meters away.
> 
> ...


I plan on making one of these sometime in the future.


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## Napcom (Jan 13, 2014)

Unfortunately Elsa suffers from Dante syndrome. We'll probably never fully understand the extent of her power, 95% of the time she does everything casually literally and has never shown to become fatigue from power use. 

Like the Golemn for example, she seemed to have summoned it pretty damn easily and it's huge, could she do more than one at a time? Who fucking knows.


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## FireEel (Jan 14, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Unfortunately Elsa suffers from Dante syndrome. We'll probably never fully understand the extent of her power, 95% of the time she does everything casually literally and has never shown to become fatigue from power use.
> 
> Like the Golemn for example, she seemed to have summoned it pretty damn easily and it's huge, could she do more than one at a time? Who fucking knows.



That's true, I forgot to mention her ability to create sentient life at a whim would be a huge factor too.

Is that an Elsanna display pic


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## DarkTorrent (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> I forgot to mention her ability to create sentient life at a whim would be a huge factor too.



Only if said creations are capable of harming the opponent.


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## FireEel (Jan 14, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> Only if said creations are capable of harming the opponent.



May I present to you, Marshmallow the Snowman.


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> Only if said creations are capable of harming the opponent.



Sure why not?



(Skip to 0:21) He has enough strength to chuck a tree pretty far
[youtube]WflS__4TAqU[/youtube]


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## DarkTorrent (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> -snip-





Napcom said:


> -snip-



That's not impressive even by the lowest of standards.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> May I present to you, Marshmallow the Snowman.



This 'impressive, daunting' snowman had his leg sliced off by a regular-ass human. He's composed of goddamn *snow*.

What on earth is he exactly supposed to do to Naruto? Heck, it probably shatters its fist just by punching a superhuman character.

Anyways, Part 1, twelve-year old Naruto throws an explosive tag at Elsa, who catches it and has her face blown to smithereens.

Seriously, she's not that strong.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 14, 2014)

Seems relevant:


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

Well I was just posting it for the sake of it. 
Going off of the post above is it too much to assume she could create a bigger one made out of just ice? 


*CoughCough*

Also why would she catch an explosive tag? She could just make a huge shield.

If she could catch a crossbow just mid flight from someone barely 15 feet away she probably wouldn't have an issue with an explosive tag.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 14, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Also why would she catch an explosive tag? She could just make a huge shield.
> 
> If she could catch a crossbow just mid flight from someone barely 15 feet away she probably wouldn't have an issue with an explosive tag.



Why would she make a huge shield? She has no clue what an 'explosive' tag even is; to her, it's a kunai soaring towards her face just like that arrow did, so she catches it with ice, just as she did with the arrow.

Except said arrow didn't have an additional offense and the tag rips her to pieces.


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why would she make a huge shield? She has no clue what an 'explosive' tag even is.



Oh damn, well I can't find any flaws with this argument. I submit.


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## FireEel (Jan 14, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> This 'impressive, daunting' snowman had his leg sliced off by a regular-ass human. He's composed of goddamn *snow*.
> 
> What on earth is he exactly supposed to do to Naruto? Heck, it probably shatters its fist just by punching a superhuman character.
> 
> ...



I was asked if her creations were capable of harming opponents. I answered it. Do not downplay his feats, he was fighting a group of armed humans. And so what if he gets his leg sliced off? He merely got ringed-out by falling off the cliff, and was still around by the end of the movie (after-credits).

In huge numbers however, this snowman can pose abit of threat. He is full of ice spikes and have enough strength to uproot a tree and throw it in a semicircle arc over dozens of meters.

And anyway, why would part 1 Naruto even throw an explosive tag at Elsa for? He only uses it against exceptionally dangerous opponents(if ever) such as Shukaku-Gaara.

If this was a fight with no knowledge, just as Elsa wouldn't know she needed to block the tag, neither would Naruto presume her to be so dangerous that he would need to use a kunai-explosive-tag-combo.



Napcom said:


> Oh damn, well I can't find any flaws with this argument. I submit.



Then make this fight *bloodlusted with knowledge on*.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 14, 2014)

pretty sure bloodlusted is a default assumption unless stated otherwise.


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> I was asked if her creations were capable of harming opponents. I answered it. Do not downplay his feats, he was fighting a group of armed humans. And so what if he gets his leg sliced off? He merely got ringed-out by falling off the cliff, and was still around by the end of the movie (after-credits).
> 
> In huge numbers however, this snowman can pose abit of thread. He is full of ice spikes and have enough strength to uproot a tree and throw it in a semicircle arc over dozens of meters.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking the time to type that out. 
How do you feel about the idea of Elsa creating fully ice-monsters of some sort that are bigger (based on the calcs provided by kat)

Too much of a stretch?


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> I was asked if her creations were capable of harming opponents. I answered it. Do not downplay his feats, he was fighting a group of *armed humans.*





That reminds me, this fucker Marshmallow was so slow he couldn't even hit a single one of those super dangerous armed humans, who aren't even peak human.



> And so what if he gets his leg sliced off?



It means his durability is shit, because if you haven't noticed, he's made of snow.

Ergo, Naruto dances over his 10 km/h strikes and kicks out his legs beneath him.



> In huge numbers however, this snowman can pose abit of threat. He is full of ice spikes and have enough strength to uproot a tree and throw it in a semicircle arc over dozens of meters.



A single clone can handle this snowman just fine. In 'huge numbers' (something Elsa hasn't been proven to do), they still can't do anything against a horde of shadow clones.



> And anyway, why would part 1 Naruto even throw an explosive tag at Elsa for? He only uses it against exceptionally dangerous opponents(if ever) such as Shukaku-Gaara.



Default OBD mindset is bloodlusted, so...


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## FireEel (Jan 14, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Thank you for taking the time to type that out.
> How do you feel about the idea of Elsa creating fully ice-monsters of some sort that are bigger (based on the calcs provided by kat)
> 
> Too much of a stretch?



Let's look at facts and assumptions.

Fact: Elsa can create snowmen of different sizes
Fact: Elsa can consciously create snowmen of an offensive nature consciously (Olaf was an accidental creation and was what likely led her to realize the true extent of her power)
Fact: Elsa has the power to create massive ice structures of a wide scale, as seen by freezing the kingdom, as well as the ice castle *casually*

Assumption: Can Elsa create bigger sentient ice monsters to fight for her?

*I would say yes, but really it depends on how OBD feels.*


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

FireEel said:


> Let's look at facts and assumptions.
> 
> Fact: Elsa can create snowmen of different sizes
> Fact: Elsa can consciously create snowmen of an offensive nature consciously (Olaf was an accidental creation and was what likely led her to realize the true extent of her power)
> ...



Oh yeah, for some reason the ice castle creation slipped my mind.
A couple dozen ice golems that size would be an issue. 

Not to mention she can crazy blizzards to heavily decrease visibility in a large area that I doubt would affect the golems themselves, though that may be a stretch again.


I really can't wait until a sequel, I feel like they'll dive into her powers so much more now since she embraced them in story from the get go


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## Katsuargi (Jan 14, 2014)

Elsa reaction times and ice formation speed:


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## Napcom (Jan 14, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Elsa reaction times and ice formation speed:




Awesome, thanks. 
If you don't mind me asking, what's your take on 


With a steel sword freezing that quickly?


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## Katsuargi (Jan 14, 2014)

After about an hour of research: Probably beyond me to quantify.

The average steel has a Shatter Strength (Read: Fracture Toughness) of about 50 mPa. By -200c, most forms of Steel are down to around 25 mPa.

Ice, on the other hand, makes it up to .15 mPa at low temperatures.

Based on all recorded data I could find, there's no point at which Steel had a lower Fracture Toughness than ice, regardless of temperature.

But, there's like 15 forms of ice, depending on pressure and temperature, and it's not far fetched to think that she can form these other types of ice...unfortunately, I was unable to locate -any- information on the mechanical aspects of these other forms of ice.

Someone with a legitimate background in engineering might be able to answer this better.

Though I suppose just cutting the shatter strength of that section of sword to half it's value would probably be enough to do that. As far as the energy required, much less than she's shown anyways.


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

So in the end what Elsa can get through about 8/10 of the naruto cast? 



Katsuargi said:


> After about an hour of research: Probably beyond me to quantify.
> 
> The average steel has a Shatter Strength (Read: Fracture Toughness) of about 50 mPa. By -200c, most forms of Steel are down to around 25 mPa.
> 
> ...



Interesting, it being a different kind of ice is a realistic idea considering it looks different than anything else shown.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

Napcom said:


> So in the end what Elsa can get through about 8/10 of the naruto cast?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, it being a different kind of ice is a realistic idea considering it looks different than anything else shown.



much, much less than that.


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> much, much less than that.



Where does she stop then?  I'll be the first to admit I don't follow naruto anymore, I know as much as...I don't know when Naruto was fighting like 4 tailed beast at once or something.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

Hard to quantify. If my calc holds up, she's in Aokiji's league of DC in terms of energy output for freezing, but she's sitting at Sonic speeds on her ice, no solid feats on durability, and normal human reaction speeds.

So...glass canon. Slow, any creations she makes are of questionable durability, but if her freezing DC can be applied directly to a characters normal DC she'd be able to take out anyone up to Island durability if she didn't get blitzed...

Are fodder ninja even less than super sonic?

I'm guessing she has the raw energy output to -put down- the majority of the cast, but can be speed blitzed and murdered by even fodder.

How many verses are there with that big of a difference between DC and every other stat?


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Hard to quantify. If my calc holds up, she's in Aokiji's league of DC in terms of energy output for freezing, but she's sitting at Sonic speeds on her ice, no solid feats on durability, and normal human reaction speeds.
> 
> So...glass canon. Slow, any creations she makes are of questionable durability, but if her freezing DC can be applied directly to a characters normal DC she'd be able to take out anyone up to Island durability if she didn't get blitzed...
> 
> Are fodder ninja even less than super sonic?



Couldn't she build like a dome or armor out of ice the size of her castle and just sit in there while she attacks them?

I know the high tiers would burst through that, but I can only think of like 10-20ish off the top of my head that could do it.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

Genin Naruto was tossing Kunai around at Supersonic speed, in fact wave arc in general has a bunch of transonic/supersonic speed feats. Sakura during Chunin exam was about half the speed of sound.

Presumably any single named characters would be scalable to that. Unnamed fodder maybe not.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

Well. We have no solid durability feats. In theory, I suppose, if she makes a dome around her with X amount of energy of ice, it would require X / Surface area to bust through a section of it.

Dunno what types of things are accepted, but I suppose she could create ice used island level energy to surround herself in ice giving her Island level durability.

So now she's at Island durability with Island level DC, but still sitting at a single Mach in speed and human reaction times.

The number of characters that can put her down are limited compared to the total cast, sure, but I doubt she's taking anyone out either.

So...stalemates most of the verse.

That seem reasonable?


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Well. We have no solid durability feats. In theory, I suppose, if she makes a dome around her with X amount of energy of ice, it would require X / Surface area to bust through a section of it.
> 
> Dunno what types of things are accepted, but I suppose she could create ice used island level energy to surround herself in ice giving her Island level durability.
> 
> ...



Yes but one more question, what about if she just caused a blizzard? Wouldn't they eventually freeze over? Regardless of speed/durability (For the ones who can't break the dome)


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

I don't agree with scaling freezing feats to DC or durability, since they're freezing feats.

Technically that number is the amount of energy she can remove from a system but what does that even mean here? It's not like she can just straight up absorb energy, her power is freezing things, so if you tossed 8 gigatons or whatever at her, she wouldn't be able to do anything.

Maybe it's the limit of her capacity when she freezes you, she can only remove 8 gigatons, so if your durability is beyond that she can't do anything, but she's removing energy, and durability has nothing to do with that, so more likely it'd be DC it relates to, i.e if you have more than 8 gigatons of DC she can't touch you, since your system will still have enough energy to not be frozen.

The entire thing is a mess, which is why we weren't rolling around with Island level Admirals, even though Aokiji had that Gigaton feat. It's not an attack that packs that much energy, it's just freezing water.


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> I so if you tossed 8 gigatons or whatever at her, she wouldn't be able to do anything.
> 
> =



Well my line of thought was more she could just make a massive ice dome, not like a small one with island level durability.
Like an island sized thick dome.

Feel me?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Well my line of thought was more she could just make a massive ice dome, not like a small one with island level durability.
> Like an island sized thick dome.
> 
> Feel me?



actually Feebas already had that idea.

someone on Aokiji's level could make like a small town sized amount of ice IIRC, it was incredibly underwhelming, the reason is of course, because you have to make your ice from something, and unless she has an island worth of water to freeze together, she has to make do with moisture in the air.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

Which is what I figured. If you're less than Island level durability, she can probably freeze you...

But canon fodder can likely murder her.

Assuming normal ice, she could drop herself in the middle of the ocean, burn 8 gigs of energy and surround herself in an extraordinarily thick chunk of ice requiring some fraction of Island level DC to blow through and kill her (City~ level, maybe. Don't feel like doing the math on that one at the moment).

So even in that optimal circumstance, she's able to be killed by a much larger chunk of the cast and has no way to see / target them, and even if she could even the cannon fodder can kill her.

So given optimal conditions, she can survive being killed by anyone under City ish level, but has no way to target anyone or the speed to directly attack them in said condition.


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> actually Feebas already had that idea.
> 
> someone on Aokiji's level could make like a small town sized amount of ice IIRC, it was incredibly underwhelming, the reason is of course, because you have to make your ice from something, and unless she has an island worth of water to freeze together, she has to make do with moisture in the air.



Why do we assume she's taking moisture from the air and can't just produce snow/ice from her hands? Like magic.



Katsuargi said:


> Which is what I figured. If you're less than Island level durability, she can probably freeze you...
> 
> But canon fodder can likely murder her.
> 
> ...




How about the whole idea of her creating island sized ice titans to fight for her?


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

Eh. If she's magiking ice/snow into existence, it'd be impossible to get any form of energy out of it.

How much energy does it take to magik?

Energy assumptions are based on assuming she's operating under normal physics.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

sounds about right I guess.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

> Why do we assume she's taking moisture from the air and can't just produce snow/ice from her hands? Like magic.



what the other dude said.

If we just assume she's making magical ice from nowhere then why is there even a limit and if there is how are we meant to know what that limit is?


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## Napcom (Jan 15, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Eh. If she's magiking ice/snow into existence, it'd be impossible to get any form of energy out of it.
> 
> How much energy does it take to magik?
> 
> Energy assumptions are based on assuming she's operating under normal physics.



See this whole time I thought we were on the page of her just creating it all from magic.

Been on two different wave links this whole time.



Nightbringer said:


> what the other dude said.
> 
> If we just assume she's making magical ice from nowhere then why is there even a limit and if there is how are we meant to know what that limit is?




I don't know man, I posted about that before saying we have no idea what her limit is.


I mean I'm not saying not to go off what you guys were going off of previous, since apparently that's the only choice. 
But I just had thought the whole time hohoh its magic.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

For my own personal knowledge, since you might know this night:

If she's demonstrated the ability to cool with 8 gigs, can we safely assume she can apply that same energy to a smaller area for colder temperatures?

If so, she might be able to just absolute 0 nuke a fairly large area and wipe out low tiers.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

well technically it would work that way.

but we never assume a character can do something like AZ unless they've shown the ability to do it, mostly because it's kind of a special tier of freezing.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 15, 2014)

Ice speed got nerfed to about 1/4 it's value. It was in the frame previous, I just over looked it due to the terrible image quality.

Not that it's relevant here, Cannon fodder was dodging any direct attack via ice anyhow.

Appreciate it Night. You've been very helpful. ^_^


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

nicht problem mein fruend

terrible german ahoy


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## Lucaniel (Jan 15, 2014)

it's actually keine probleme


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

close enough


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## FireEel (Jan 15, 2014)

Napcom said:


> Where does she stop then?  I'll be the first to admit I don't follow naruto anymore, I know as much as...I don't know when Naruto was fighting like 4 tailed beast at once or something.



There's alot about Narutoverse you need to be updated on then.

There are now several country-busters in Narutoverse, and if I am not mistaken, even continent-busters.

At best, with bloodlusted and speed equal on, Elsa freezes her opponent and continually stabs them with ice spikes.

I will just say that given such a tactic, Elsa should be able to get to 1/2 of Part 2 perhaps. Not that she could defeat everyone before though.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 15, 2014)

You got your moon level Prime Juubi/RS

You got your (dubious) continental Juubi/Juubito/Madara soonish

You got your country level Naruto

You got your island level other bijuu and people like Hashi


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## ATastyMuffin (Jan 15, 2014)

Elsa getting through '8/10 of the Naruto cast' is one of the funniest things I've read in a long-ass time.

'getting through 1/2 of Part 1' is almost as funny.


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 15, 2014)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Elsa getting through '8/10 of the Naruto cast' is one of the funniest things I've read in a long-ass time.
> 
> 'getting through 1/2 of Part 1' is almost as funny.


 wow such insight much relevance  wow much thought so helpful


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## Darth Niggatron (Jan 16, 2014)

So 8gt energy manipulation[?] Sonic speed, plastic table level dura?
She stops at Pt 1 Gaara.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 16, 2014)

Assuming she doesn't take a stay kunai somewhere, seems legit.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 16, 2014)

With speed equal, her best bet is to hide herself in as thick a shield as possible and let her creations do the work for her.

Elsa is in a pretty weird state. I think it might be the first fiction I've personally read where DC is so many orders of magnitude above durability.

Need someone more knowledgeable about rules around here to answer different questions about things, though.

If she can bring the kingdom down to 0c, she should be able to freeze anyone with ~Island level durability solid, which I believe is what, Bijuu and under?

At the same time, I'd have to do some work and see how thick of an ice shield she could reasonable toss around herself in a standard fight and what level of DC said shield would have.

Her ice when it shatters the sword is far stronger than any naturally occurring ice that I can find mechanics for. How far can we extrapolate that, though? Or can we just go by what is legitimately shown and say she can create ice with 100x the strength of natural ice?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jan 16, 2014)

?Bigger=/=Better.
The theory that she can possibly create Bijuu sized ice monsters helps her in no way at all, especially when they can be oneshotted by explosive kunai.
?An 8gt freezing feat doesn't really help her here either, considering freezing feats don't actually have a direct correlation with dc.
Can we like say she can make an 8gt ice lance or spear attack?
?Mcb to town level blizzards? That seems like the more legit point to make. If that is indeed accurate, she stops at Vote Cloaked Naruto.


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 16, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> If she can bring the kingdom down to 0c, she should be able to freeze anyone with ~Island level durability solid, which I believe is what, Bijuu and under?


She brought the kingdom way below 0c. It was colder than that at the begining when anna fell into a stream and her dress insta-froze. Latter on it got so cold that the castle started to crumble.



> Her ice when it shatters the sword is far stronger than any naturally occurring ice that I can find mechanics for. How far can we extrapolate that, though? Or can we just go by what is legitimately shown and say she can create ice with 100x the strength of natural ice?


It is really too bad that that is the only time her ice is really tested, because it's not a good example. That ice is clearly different form all her other ice, as it freezes his sword instantly. If all her ice was like that, Anna would have died when she stepped in the Ice Palace. Elsa's Ice is quite a bit stronger than normal, this is evident by her ice stairs being able it's own weight plus hers while being extended several meters over a large gap. However, it's hard to say how much stronger.


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## Katsuargi (Jan 16, 2014)

Nah. Just 8gt energy manipulation.

Best DC / Durability she has going on her creations was she made ice 100x stronger than normal ice. (Given that normal ice has an impact resistance of .15, and steel frozen down to the lowest temperatures any graph I could find was around 15, and said sword shattered on the ice.)

If we allowed her to arbitrarily "Harden ice" up to her 8 gig energy manipulation she could have island level Durability, but that's probably excessive.

Well. When it catches the arrow, if you watch it frame by frame, it goes from normal ice the arrow pases through with no resistance to something else in a single frame.


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## DarkTorrent (Jan 16, 2014)

You are getting into NLF territory here.


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## FireEel (Jan 16, 2014)

DarkTorrent said:


> You are getting into NLF territory here.



We are. But reasons have already been given why it is not unreasonable to assume Elsa has the ability to do so.

She meets the needed criteria.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 16, 2014)

size of creations is kind of irrelevant.


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## Napcom (Jan 16, 2014)

It's not though, what can most of part 1's cast do to a tailed beast sized  ice monster with minor blizzard abilities?  A single explosive kunai isn't going to take it down,  could the tag even explode if it's frozen solid?

Dark I don't see how it's heading into a NLF, since as far as I can see everyone is going off what she's shown to do just putting it into a different form. 

If a character could effortlessly build a castle out of ice in 10-20 seconds there is no reason to think she couldn't make monsters that size, not to mention the power that went into freezing all of Arendelle + the mountain in a short amount of time without trying, and I don't mean casually, i mean she literally was not trying to freeze the place over and did it by accident simply by running around


This gif is in my signature video, at 2:15 and then it shows the full thing at 3:27


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## blademan9999 (Jan 17, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Well. We have no solid durability feats. In theory, I suppose, if she makes a dome around her with X amount of energy of ice, it would require X / Surface area to bust through a section of it.
> 
> Dunno what types of things are accepted, but I suppose she could create ice used island level energy to surround herself in ice giving her Island level durability.
> 
> ...



Except there's no evidence that she can concentrate that level of freezing into one place. 
Also anyone with enough power could just tunnel through the done, or underground.


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## Fujita (Jan 17, 2014)

Pecola said:


> Anyways, Elsa shoves a giant ice dildo up Naruto's pansy ass.





Pecola said:


> I was just making a one-liner where any new quality character stomps Naruto in my opinion.



This is not at all blatantly awkward 



Katsuargi said:


> Well. We have no solid durability feats. In theory, I suppose, if she makes a dome around her with X amount of energy of ice, it would require X / Surface area to bust through a section of it.



Er... no

The ice has some sort of bond energy, which you have to overcome to break it, but that's not Elsa's freezing energy... which is actually the energy that the ice _doesn't_ have, by virtue of no longer being water. 



> Dunno what types of things are accepted, but I suppose she could create ice used island level energy to surround herself in ice giving her Island level durability.



If she can make an island's worth of extremely hard ice, maybe. 



Nightbringer said:


> I don't agree with scaling freezing feats to DC or durability, since they're freezing feats.
> 
> Technically that number is the amount of energy she can remove from a system but what does that even mean here? It's not like she can just straight up absorb energy, her power is freezing things, so if you tossed 8 gigatons or whatever at her, she wouldn't be able to do anything.
> 
> ...



I remember talking about this with willy once, I think

One idea was treating "heat resistance" as going more or less equally well for freezing and burning, since they're the same processes just in reverse. And it's just as hard to remove heat as it is to add it for a given material. This would then arguably extend to conventional durability as well, or at least to an order of magnitude.  

I don't much like the notion that characters have their DC's worth of "energy" inside them at all times, or that this translates well to heat. Because... unless they are literally burning things, it really doesn't. Honestly, unless they're just a maelstrom of energy, most of it's probably not even useful destructive power, just stored as potential energy of some sort.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 17, 2014)

but heat resistance isn't a thing.

it's just durability.


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## Fujita (Jan 17, 2014)

What

It's very much a thing

We roughly correlate conventional durability to this (and vice versa), sure... which I say right after the heat resistance thing


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## Katsuargi (Jan 21, 2014)

Actually, thinking about it, at the end of the movie she does compress the entirety of the winter that she created into a giant snow flake...


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## Edward Nygma (Jan 21, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Actually, thinking about it, at the end of the movie she does compress the entirety of the winter that she created into a giant snow flake...


Yeah, and then like destroys it with a wave of her arms. I thought about mentioning that, but then got

*Edit*


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## Katsuargi (Jan 22, 2014)

Well, I mean in so far we were talking about if she can compress the ice down.

That snow flake essentially has gigatons of compressed ice.

I'm still teh noob on this stuff, though, so I'd feel more comfortable with someone like Willy of Chaos chiming in.


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