# Zuko and Azula vs. Itachi and Sasuke



## Commander Shepard (Apr 5, 2009)

vs.



Which is the better sibling rivalry?

Which had the better final confrontation?

Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?  Sozin's Comet is on.


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## denice25 (Apr 5, 2009)

nice trailer.....thanks for the post!!!!


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## Banhammer (Apr 5, 2009)

you know very well what the answer is.


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## The World (Apr 5, 2009)

*Which is the better sibling rivalry* Azula and Zuko

*Which had the better final confrontation?* I can't decide but Zuko kinda got owned but Azula did make me laugh alot when she went bat shit insane when chained to the grate. 
I just loved how Itachi made Sasuke look like a punk so i'm going to go with that.

*Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?* Itachi and Sasuke would stomp.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 5, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> *Which had the better final confrontation?* I can't decide but Zuko kinda got owned but Azula did make me laugh alot when she went bat shit insane when chained to the grate.
> I just loved how Itachi made Sasuke look like a punk so i'm going to go with that.



Zuko was owning Azula, then Azula cheated by shooting Katara. 



> *Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?* Itachi and Sasuke would stomp.



Why?


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## The World (Apr 5, 2009)

Itachi and Sasuke are superhuman? Random exploding bunshin would kill Zuko and Sasuke can chidori lance Azula through the head. If this is Snake Sasuke he won't even be hurt by their fire he can just oral rebirth. And did you see how Itachi contorted himself to dodge all those kunai? He can probably still dodge their attacks with speed equal. They're fireball jutsu's seem to do about as much damage as the fire output from Zuko and Azula as well, assuming there is no Sozin's comet.


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## Platinum (Apr 5, 2009)

*Which is the better sibling rivalry?* Itachi and Sasuke

*Which had the better final confrontation?* Zuko and Azula

*Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?* Complete rapestomp for Itachi and Sasuke. Shunsin+ head chop puts down Zuko and Itachi downs Azula with an Exploding KB or Amerterasu. Either one would solo.


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## Antitard (Apr 5, 2009)

Itachi and Sasuke weren't really rivals. It was more like Sasuke wanting to kill Itachi, and Itachi being the anti-villain character. 

Their final confrontation was better though, since Azula and Zuko was just fireworks vs fireworks

And you know very well who would win in a fight. Either Sasuke or Itachi would rape them with 1 hand.


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## Darth Nihilus (Apr 5, 2009)

Azula and Zuko
Itachi and Sasuke
Itachi and Sasuke


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## Narcissus (Apr 5, 2009)

Azula and Zuko had the better rivalry to me.

The fact that the creators had to make Azula go insane just so Zuko could have any chance against her annoyed me.  Other than that, they had the better final fight.

Itachi and Sasuke would win a fight, sadly.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 6, 2009)

1. Azula and Zuko. Their sibling rivalry was more realistic. Sasuke's was a "i'm going to fucking murder you." Not really rivals.
2. Azula and Zuko. That final battle was so emotional with the music. However the ending of Itachi and Sasuke's was jaw dropping. I fucking loved it.
3. I'd say Itachi and Sasuke, so long as they don't get killed by lightning.


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## Onomatopoeia (Apr 6, 2009)

*Which is the better sibling rivalry?*

Itachi: I killed our entire family and I'm going to steal your eyes so that I can be invincible.
Sasuke: I hate you, Itachi!

That's really not a rivalry if you think about it. At least not a traditional one.

*Which had the better final confrontation?* Itachi was half-dead, holding back and nearly blind and Sasuke still lost.

Azula wasn't holding back, but she really wasn't in any sort of condition to be fighting at full capacity. That said, Zuko's firebending talents increased over the series and he was able to hold his own against (non-crazy)Azula and he previously learned to redirect lightning.

The only bad part was where Katara didn't die. Boo KatAang! I demand ZukAang!

*Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?*

I&S.


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## mansher (Apr 6, 2009)

Itachi and Sasuke curbstomp Zuko and Azula in anytime, anything and anywhere.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 6, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Boo KatAang! I demand ZukAang!



What the frak.


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 6, 2009)

Katara being at Zuko and Azula's final fight destroyed whatever tension could have been in the fight.

Zuko: I have been trying my whole life to get out of your shadow Azula,...KATARA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Red (Apr 6, 2009)

> Which is the better sibling rivalry?


Itachi and sauce



> Which had the better final confrontation?


Until we see the fight get animated I'll stick with Zuko/Azula



> Which would win in a fight, no genjutsu and speed equaled?


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## Gunners (Apr 6, 2009)

To be honest I preferred the sibling rivalry between Azula and Zuko, it was like a mini Roku vs Sozen ( seeing as Zuko was Roku's descendent).

I like the relationship between Sasuke and Itachi more though, it had more significance and was explored more.

Preferred the final conflict of Zuko and Azula. Avatar shows that fights can be done effectively in the space of minutes, and that they don't have to be drawn out.

I'm not going to dignify the third question with an answer.



> Zuko: I have been trying my whole life to get out of your shadow Azula,...KATARA NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !



You should pay attention more, by the final confrontation Zuko didn't actually want to prove anything, his character growth came in the fact that his honour wasn't dependant on such trivial matters. He was prepared to have Katara help him beat Azula because his goal wasn't about getting out of her shadow he decided to fight her one and one because he fought ( and rightly so) that he could win.


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## Banhammer (Apr 6, 2009)

Azula Zuko riavlity was several grades of power better than Sasuke Itachi. They actually had a sibiling rivality, it was actually clever, it actually had sides, intresting brothers, and it was properly moving and motivated while the uchiha conflict was just Sauce being wangsty at his brother because of his faux-batman cop out.
Most of this so called "rivalry" was actually directed to mostly everyone else but Itachi

The final showdown isn't even an argument. While Zuko and Azula actually had several brush ins, with amazing points, proper build up and proper consequences, even if the sozin battle was a bit off-screen, they were all awesome.
Throw her off a cliff? Bitch learns how to fly. Zap him lightning? Bastard learns how to re-direct it. Put her off a chasm of boiling lava? She's gonna get jet powered. Hide in the capital city of their most powerfull enemy? Bitch stages a coup and _conquers it_. Far more staisfying than the overhyped ridiculous unatural and stiff staring contest between saucegay and Itachi, that involved nothing more than whipping each others dick vagina sharingan out and measuring it, and in the end, was just a cop-out.

With speed equalized, they die of lightning to the face. These two actually don't waste time with flashbacks, bullshit and drawn out fights, Azula goes for the kill with no shenanigans, and they don't have the speed to dodge it.
 Random whatever my perfect peach scented balls.


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 6, 2009)

Hanabishi Recca said:


> You should pay attention more, by the final confrontation Zuko didn't actually want to prove anything, his character growth came in the fact that his honour wasn't dependant on such trivial matters. He was prepared to have Katara help him beat Azula because his goal wasn't about getting out of her shadow he decided to fight her one and one because he fought ( and rightly so) that he could win.



I'm aware of the fact that by then Zuko didn't care about proving himself anymore. The point of the comment was that when the writers decided to bring Katara along for the ride they destroyed every bit of tension that had been building between the two ,from way back in season 1, in an instant.

Had they just kept her in a spectator position it might not have been so bad but instead they decided to have her first be a burden and then go uber-waterbender and do Zuko's job for him. I get that he cares for his friends now but let the guy handle his own damn busines. If Azula was better she should have won, If Zuko was better then he should have won. A real all or nothing battle that had a hand in deciding the fate of the world. Instead we got to see Zuko fail miserably and have planateer Katara do it for him. The very second Azula looked at Katara you knew how the rest of the fight was going to play out. Imagine if Hinata, Sakura, or even Lee were to get up and take out Pain for Naruto. 

The scene had great music, great lighting, and even the over the top firebending was acceptable, but that execution of the scene wasn't average maybe not even that. It was better than the Uchiha fight but it still wasn't good.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 6, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> They're fireball jutsu's seem to do about as much damage as the fire output from Zuko and Azula as well, assuming there is no Sozin's comet.



Comet power is on, I forgot to note that.


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## Antitard (Apr 6, 2009)

Doesn't matter they still lose


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 6, 2009)

How can they win when they've got lightning shoved in their faces?


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## Marth6789 (Apr 6, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> How can they win when they've got lightning shoved in their faces?



Sasuke manipulates lightning for a living. His mastery far exceeds anyone in avatar.


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 6, 2009)

FTL reaction-times >> lightning


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## Onomatopoeia (Apr 6, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> FTL reaction-times >> lightning



Sasuke and Itachi don't have faster than light reaction times.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 6, 2009)

Marth6789 said:


> Sasuke manipulates lightning for a living. His mastery far exceeds anyone in avatar.



He's not better than Iroh.  Sasuke can't redirect a lightning bolt if it hit him from Azula.


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## Narcissus (Apr 6, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> FTL reaction-times >> lightning





Spouting bullshit as usual.  Sasuke and Itachi do not have FTL reaction.




Marth6789 said:


> Sasuke manipulates lightning for a living. His mastery far exceeds anyone in avatar.



Which was why he need so much prep to create Kirin.  That's enough of your nonsense Marth.


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## The World (Apr 6, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> He's not better than Iroh.  Sasuke can't redirect a lightning bolt if it hit him from Azula.



He can just discharge it like Kakashi did.
in similar manner as to how the Rinnegan
Frog building thing


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## Banhammer (Apr 6, 2009)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> -snip-


Yes, because sending katara to either meddle in the show's actual showdown (Aang and Ozai) would not be clich? and overused, not to mention canon fodder, or sending her to a waterless location like the zepplins, in an underspaced transport like Appa, while Zuko goes to fight an extreemly competent firebender in the heart of the nation all alone, (in a fight where Zuko needs to proove he has outgrown the rivality) would be smart...


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## Banhammer (Apr 6, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> He can just discharge it like Kakashi did.
> in similar manner as to how the Rinnegan



Chakra lightning.
There were pages after pages on how bending and chakra don't mix, because bending powers are the real actual element, and chakra is not.
Do you like it how when they're being shot at by lightning they have the time to be stunned and what the hell?
Plot no jutsu must be nice
And on another note, Sasuke has never ever ever performed Raikiri, the technique who'se defining proerty is to "have cut through lightning"
charka lightning all the same but still
Not the same, so no. Lightning to the face still = humurous and genre savy death.


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## The World (Apr 6, 2009)

Real lightning my ass, that's the slowest lightning i've ever seen. Bender Lightning looks more like electrical discharge. 

And also even though it's chakra lightning it still has the same properties as real lightning. Does chakra fire not burn? Does chakra water not get things wet?


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 6, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Yes, because sending katara to either meddle in the show's actual showdown (Aang and Ozai) would not be clich? and overused, not to mention canon fodder, or sending her to a waterless location like the zepplins,



Her going the Ozai/Aang fight is no different than her being in Zuko/Azula fight so thats out, she's just in the way. So the obvious solution would be to give her a good sized water pouch and send her to the zepplins. 




> in an underspaced transport like Appa,



It's like four people, Appa regularly carries more.




> while Zuko goes to fight an extreemly competent firebender in the heart of the nation all alone, (in a fight where Zuko needs to proove he has outgrown the rivality) would be smart...



Kind of like how Aang went off and fought an extremely competent firebender all by himself in the middle of some valley. I don't get where you're going with this. Other people have faced opponents that they knew were either stronger than they were or of similar strength all the time in this series why was all of sudden it such a big thing that he have back up now.

It doesn't matter since we saw Zuko would have won. He had her matched blow for blow and was starting. As for outgrowing their rivarly, if they wanted to show that they probably should have gone with a route more like him giving up the opportunity of going after Azula and giving it to someone more competent. But instead he got his butt handed to him and someone was forced to intervene.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 6, 2009)

Roxxas said:


> He can just discharge it like Kakashi did.
> in similar manner as to how the Rinnegan
> scene from chapter 36



Kakashi's feat, not Sasuke's.



			
				Clay Man Gumby said:
			
		

> Her going the Ozai/Aang fight is no different than her being in Zuko/Azula fight so thats out, she's just in the way. So the obvious solution would be to give her a good sized water pouch and send her to the zepplins.



Sokka, Suki, and Toph were already going to intercept Ozai and the airship fleet; they weren't even sure if Aang would show.  Strategically, sending Katara as backup for Zuko made sense.  Going in alone, while dramatic, is rather stupid.


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 6, 2009)

Itachi and Sasuke's fight was very anti-climactic and a huge let down. A/Z win by default, although that fight wasn't that special.

The rivalry I don't care about.

The fight would be Itachi raping them both at the same time while Sasuke cuts his wrists.


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 6, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> *Sokka, Suki, and Toph were already going to intercept Ozai and the airship fleet; they weren't even sure if Aang would show. * Strategically, sending Katara as backup for Zuko made sense.  Going in alone, while dramatic, is rather stupid.



Wasn't Aang suppose to take out Ozai while Sokka, Suki, Toph took out the fleet of ships.


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 6, 2009)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> Wasn't Aang suppose to take out Ozai while Sokka, Suki, Toph took out the fleet of ships.



Aang was missing.  They had no idea where he was, if he was going to fight Ozai, or if he was even alive.  After Sokka, Toph, and Suki hijacked the airship, they tried catching up to Ozai's ship to take him down.  They would have gotten their asses kicked if Aang hadn't showed, though.


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## Clay Man Gumby (Apr 6, 2009)

Manw? S?limo said:


> Aang was missing.  They had no idea where he was, if he was going to fight Ozai, or if he was even alive.  After Sokka, Toph, and Suki hijacked the airship, they tried catching up to Ozai's ship to take him down.  They would have gotten their asses kicked if Aang hadn't showed, though.



So wouldn't having a second extremely powerful bender in their group atleast raise the odds in their favour ,even if that just meant helping them escape, incase Aang made a no-show. Instead of sending her with Zuko who we've seen has developed his skills to the point where he's capable of dealing with Azula and they knew the Azula was starting "off".


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## Banhammer (Apr 6, 2009)

it's because you touch yourself at night


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 6, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Sasuke and Itachi don't have faster than light reaction times.





Narcissus said:


> Spouting bullshit as usual.  Sasuke and Itachi do not have FTL reaction.


It was a fucking joke. You too Banhammer (because I argued they had FTL reaction times in the Ozai vs Sasuke thread didn't I?  )


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## Narcissus (Apr 6, 2009)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> So wouldn't having a second extremely powerful bender in their group atleast raise the odds in their favour ,even if that just meant helping them escape, incase Aang made a no-show. Instead of sending her with Zuko who we've seen has developed his skills to the point where he's capable of dealing with Azula and they knew the Azula was starting "off".



Zuko was not capable of handeling Azula on his own, which was why they sent Katara as back-up.  I agree that having her defeat Azula was stupid, but the reasons for sending her with Zuko were legit.



> Originally Posted by *ScreenXSurfer*
> It was a fucking joke



And a bad one at that. 
Fail epic fail.


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## Banhammer (Apr 6, 2009)

ScreenXSurfer said:


> It was a fucking joke. You too Banhammer (because I argued they had FTL reaction times in the Ozai vs Sasuke thread didn't I?  )



It lacked clearness and i was in a negging spree.. Redem yourself in my eyes later, and I shall heal you


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## Commander Shepard (Apr 7, 2009)

Clay Man Gumby said:


> So wouldn't having a second extremely powerful bender in their group atleast raise the odds in their favour ,even if that just meant helping them escape, incase Aang made a no-show. Instead of sending her with Zuko who we've seen has developed his skills to the point where he's capable of dealing with Azula and they knew the Azula was starting "off".



Well, Azula could have easily set the Imperial Firebenders on Zuko (he had no idea she had banished them).  Also, when Zuko went, he had no idea of her breakdown.  If Azula had her sanity and prowess with her, she would have beaten him, and he and Iroh knew it.  That's why Iroh recommended Zuko have some support.

Sending Katara to the airship fleet wouldn't have made a lot of sense, because at ~1000 feet in the air she wouldn't have much water to bend.  Toph, on the other hand, could turn the airships to scrap metal.

When it comes down to it, sending Katara with Zuko was the right thing to do.  Could she have helped out some with the airships?  Yes, probably.  But  Zuko needed her help more.


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