# Shisui and Obito are brothers



## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

It's too obvious.


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

i agree


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Both sons of Kagami Uchiha, the son of Izuna/Madara Uchiha.


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## Kahvehane (Sep 2, 2012)

I could see it.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Sep 2, 2012)

Maybe they were bros. I don't really care, but Obito's parents were obviously Uruchi and Teyaki  He took after them the "civil" way of thinking and because they were non-fighters they didn't pressure Obito so much on his failures as shinobi.


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## Not Sure (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems possible. 5 to 9 years age gap (Itachi is 21 and Kakashi is 30). As seen from what happened to Yagura, possibly same or similar Genjutsu. Similar hairstyles and etc.

But I'll only agree with this theory if Kagami is their grandfather.


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Both sons of Kagami Uchiha, the son of Izuna/Madara Uchiha.


and Kagami probably had an older brother, that was Mikoto's father


The leadership of the uchiha clan seemed to be passed throught the main family, so madara needs to be fugaku's or mikoto's something.


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## Whirlpool (Sep 2, 2012)

slowpoke.png


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## mlc818 (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm supportive of this... but I fear that it makes Tobi=Shisui instead of Obito more likely ;p

If Tobi really is Obito, Shisui being his brother will seem tacked on unless he actually gets Shisui's dna or one of his (destroyed) eyes somehow.  Although honestly the brother of the man who had Kotoamatsukami being able to awaken Mugen Tsukiyomi would be less surprising than Obito using Tsukiyomi when his eye has thus far been shown to be mostly offensive/defensive battle related. (assuming that long haired Tobi wasn't Obito, of course, since we know he could use a strong mind control jutsu on Yagura)

Edit:


Jay. said:


> Both sons of Kagami Uchiha, the son of Izuna/Madara Uchiha.


I could see Madara as a dead beat dad, he certainly seems self centered enough.  All he cares about is his own power, his big Susanoo, and Hashirama's wood. ...lol


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

How old was shisui?


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## Not Sure (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> How old was shisui?



He should be around Itachi's are or older.


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## Whirlpool (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> How old was shisui?



Probably 5 years younger than Obito or so


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

so he would be Obito's younger brother. Obito has more chance of being Tobi so.


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Not Sure said:


> But I'll only agree with this theory if Kagami is their grandfather.


Kagami was as old as Hiruzen (I guess)

Asuma is around Kakashi's age and therefore also around Obito's age. I guess Asuma is a bit older tho but still same Generation.
So Kagami's son could be Obito since Kagami was around Hiruzen's age and in this manga people seem to get their children at the same time. So let's say Kagami's child should be around Asuma's age. Which would apply to Obito and/or Shisui.
It's ridiclious and could apply to a pattern because Kishi is a predictable cat.


So yeah. Obito was always in the shadow of his bigger brother, Shisui the Genjutsu Prodigy.


Also I would suck Kagami's cock. The greatest Uchiha ever. Right next to Itachi.


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## Kanki (Sep 2, 2012)

They do look fairly similar.


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Not Sure said:


> He should be around Itachi's are or older.





Whirlpool said:


> Probably 5 years younger than Obito or so





Jeαnne said:


> so he would be Obito's younger brother. Obito has more chance of being Tobi so.


If Shisui was something like Itachi's mentor or senpai he's a bit older.

I for my part believe that they were around the same age with Shisui being only a little bit older.

I don't believe that he was Itachi's sensei or something. He just gave him advice and everything because he has seen more shit than itachi up to that point.


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## Leuconoe (Sep 2, 2012)

Sounds good to me!


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## DonutKid (Sep 2, 2012)

you don't sa-


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## Not Sure (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Kagami was as old as Hiruzen (I guess)
> 
> Asuma is around Kakashi's age and therefore also around Obito's age. I guess Asuma is a bit older tho but still same Generation.
> So Kagami's son could be Obito since Kagami was around Hiruzen's age and in this manga people seem to get their children at the same time. So let's say Kagami's child should be around Asuma's age. Which would apply to Obito and/or Shisui.
> ...



Lol, I guess you got a point XD. But it generally depends on some factors. Hiruzen was 41 when he became a parent, while other parents in the series had kids when they were 20 (Tsume's 36 and Kiba's 16).


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Kagami was as old as Hiruzen (I guess)
> 
> Asuma is around Kakashi's age and therefore also around Obito's age. I guess Asuma is a bit older tho but still same Generation.
> So Kagami's son could be Obito since Kagami was around Hiruzen's age and in this manga people seem to get their children at the same time. So let's say Kagami's child should be around Asuma's age. Which would apply to Obito and/or Shisui.
> ...


we dont know shit about kagami


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Kagami was a badass.



*Spoiler*: __ 



[



Look at his eyes and tell me he was not a badass. Also Kagami is a fucking badass name.


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## Whirlpool (Sep 2, 2012)

Not loving Torifu...


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Who is Torifu?


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## Punished Pathos (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> and Kagami probably had an older brother, that was Mikoto's father
> 
> 
> The leadership of the uchiha clan seemed to be passed throught the main family, so madara needs to be fugaku's or mikoto's something.



I think Mikoto is Izuna's grandaughter.


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## Johnny Kage (Sep 2, 2012)

Boss thread, 

I never had think about this, everything makes sense now


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Mikoto is not an Uchiha you retards.


It's stated somewhere that she got into the family via marriage. She is not a born Uchiha, basically shit and just a whore.


She didn't even have Sharingan.


Also i*c*st is a Hyuuga type of thing.


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## Ch1pp (Sep 2, 2012)

So shisui awakened mangekyo when obito was reported dead?

Looking at this from different angles, this shit just keeps getting good 


Obito's younger bro was itachi's best friend

Shisui's big bro was itachi's mentor and enemy

Bastards like danzo who stole shisui's sharingan should have pissed of obito, but Dude was just like (hey sasuke, defeat this old geezer, so i can retrieve my brother's eye asap)That's the mark of a man who truly believes the world is fucked up.


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## Closet Pervert (Sep 2, 2012)

Nope. Shisui was one of the two Rikudou's sons. He's been Kotoamatsukami'ing the Uchiha all along.


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## Not Sure (Sep 2, 2012)

Closet Pervert said:


> Nope. Shisui was one of the two Rikudou's sons. He's been Kotoamatsukami'ing the Uchiha all along.



So, he is Jesus


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## Whirlpool (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Who is Torifu?



The big fat friend.


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh I thought that was a mountain in the background.


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Mikoto is not an Uchiha you retards.
> 
> 
> It's stated somewhere that she got into the family via marriage. She is not a born Uchiha, basically shit and just a whore.
> ...


stop BSing


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## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

stay strong


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm stating facts.


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## Samehada (Sep 2, 2012)

Similar MS as well...


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Fuck yeah Samehada


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## Deadweight (Sep 2, 2012)

Someone with better photoshop/paint skills than myself should try superimposing Shisui's sharingan onto Obito's to see what their potential EMS design would look like.


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## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

Kagami and Obito are father and son

thats why their MS designs are the same

true facts


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## Samehada (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Fuck yeah Samehada



Your welcome to take the picture and place it in your original post.  Just to prove your point more.


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> I'm stating facts.


im pretty sure that it was never stated if Mikoto was or wasnt an Uchiha, if it ever was, people would be discussing what clan she was supposed to be from like crazy.

Btw, not have sharingan doesnt mean that you are not an uchiha.


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## Itachi Uchiha (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> Kagami and Obito are father and son
> 
> thats why their MS designs are the same
> 
> true facts



Itachi and Sasuke are blood brothers, and their MS are not even similar.


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## DraconianMithril (Sep 2, 2012)

If Obito is 30 and Itachi is 21, and Shisui is older than Itachi but not exactly in Kakashi's gen, then it totally would be Possible for Obito to be the older bro and Shisui the younger, and it would make sense for their father to be Kagami Uchiha.

Kagami Uchiha is the same Gen as Sarutobi, and Sarutobi is the Father of Asuma who is in Kakashi's gen aka Obito's gen. So it all works out especially well considering Kishi's timeline.


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeanne, do believe in i*c*st or something? 

She is clearly from outside


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 2, 2012)

I'll support this theory


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## DraconianMithril (Sep 2, 2012)

Plus Tobito was Spewing Fire and Fury because Danzo crushed his Brothers eye.


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## Itachi Uchiha (Sep 2, 2012)

All Uchihas seems to be related somehow, but i have a question, could be Madara or Izuna Fugaku Uchiha relatives? Since Izuna looks pretty similar to Sasuke and Itachi, i wonder.


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh and I believe that Tobi is something that is passed on.


The first Tobi was Kagami. Then his son Obito took over. His rage fueled by the death of his brother and father. He came to seek peace.


First Tobi: Kagami 
Current Tobi: Obito


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 2, 2012)

Willofire said:


> All Uchihas seems to be related somehow, but i have a question, could be Madara or Izuna Fugaku Uchiha relatives? Since Izuna looks pretty similar to Sasuke and Itachi, i wonder.



They are. They're all cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. Uchiha and Hyuuga practice heavily in inbreeding.



Jay. said:


> Oh and I believe that Tobi is something that is passed on.
> 
> 
> The first Tobi was Kagami. Then his son Obito took over. His rage fueled by the death of his brother and father. He came to seek peace.
> ...



I was thinking the same thing. Maybe the persona of "Tobi" is something Kagami's family started as a way to get revenge for Madara's fall.


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## Dolohov27 (Sep 2, 2012)

jacamo said:


> Kagami and Obito are father and son
> 
> thats why their MS designs are the same
> 
> true facts


 Since when did Kagami have the MS ?


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## DemonBorn4569 (Sep 2, 2012)

All Uchiha look alike! ... das racist.


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## Kid Marvelman (Sep 2, 2012)

If this is true and Obito somehow gets EMS from this everyone will be screwed.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> If Shisui was something like Itachi's mentor or senpai he's a bit older.
> 
> I for my part believe that they were around the same age with Shisui being only a little bit older.
> 
> I don't believe that he was Itachi's sensei or something. He just gave him advice and everything because he has seen more shit than itachi up to that point.



Dunno if this has been said, but Shisui was significantly older than Itachi to have fought Ao in the war, and to have used his Mangekyō more than once (with a ten year recharge.)

Itachi was only four, so even if Shisui was very young and fighting in the war like Obito he would be about ten years older. But given his world elite status, it's more likely that he was around Minato's age.​


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## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

Willofire said:


> Itachi and Sasuke are blood brothers, and their MS are not even similar.



different bloodlines have different rules

obviously 



Dolohov27 said:


> Since when did Kagami have the MS ?



what are you talking about?

Kagami have been fighting Naruto this whole time


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## Jay. (Sep 2, 2012)

When did he fight Ao?


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## FacelessIdiot (Sep 2, 2012)

It would make sense. Obito, being the younger brother of one of the most prodigious Uchihas, would feel pressured by both the clan and his own father Kagami, a man who was trained underneath Tobirama himself, to excell, only to fall short of expectations and be the unofficial black sheep of the clan.


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 2, 2012)

FacelessIdiot said:


> It would make sense. Obito, being the younger brother of one of the most prodigious Uchihas, would feel pressured by both the clan and his own father Kagami, a man who was trained underneath Tobirama himself, to excell, only to fall short of expectations and be the unofficial black sheep of the clan.



Obito is from Kakashi's generation making him older than Shisui.


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## FacelessIdiot (Sep 2, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> Obito is from Kakashi's generation making him older than Shisui.



I feel so stupid right now.

I'd meant to put younger brother, but I kept thinking of the possible parallels between Itachi and Sasuke.


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## DraconianMithril (Sep 2, 2012)

Shisui wasn't that Older than Itachi considering Itachi saw him as an older Brother, not a second Father. Shisui was probably 18-25 when he died which is 5yrs before the current Storyline. He would have already been 23-30 by the start of Naruto, and 26-33 by this point. All of this is Super-Guesstimates obviously. So this makes Shisui potentially Obito's Little Brother or Older Brother if they were brothers. Then again Shisui already made a name for himself that even the 4th Raikage Knew so Shisui could've been known throughout the 3rd Ninja War, being in his Teens while Itachi was 4.


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## Hoshigaki Kisame (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> we dont know shit about kagami



- Was on the same team as Tobirama Senju
- Was absent during the nine tails attack
- Name means _"Mirror"_ in Japanese

Not an abundance of information, but we know a bit about him.



jacamo said:


> Kagami and Obito are father and son
> 
> thats why their MS designs are the same
> 
> true facts



No, just your assumptions.


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## Jeαnne (Sep 2, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Jeanne, do believe in i*c*st or something?
> 
> She is clearly from outside


you honestly think that all uchihas suddenly started to look the same?

There is clearly inbreeding among Uchihas


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## tnorbo (Sep 2, 2012)

I really don't know how people come up with these theories


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## Reddan (Sep 2, 2012)

DraconianMithril said:


> Shisui wasn't that Older than Itachi considering Itachi saw him as an older Brother, not a second Father. Shisui was probably 18-25 when he died which is 5yrs before the current Storyline. He would have already been 23-30 by the start of Naruto, and 26-33 by this point. All of this is Super-Guesstimates obviously. So this makes Shisui potentially Obito's Little Brother or Older Brother if they were brothers. Then again Shisui already made a name for himself that even the 4th Raikage Knew so Shisui could've been known throughout the 3rd Ninja War, being in his Teens while Itachi was 4.


Yeh I think Shishui was slightly older than Obito around 33 in the current timeline or so. However, it can go either way. I think what sways it is people knew his MS had a 10 year charging time, so he must have had the MS for 10 years before he died, making him seem to be in his 20s. Put that with him being famous world wide and it all makes sense.

Obito and Shishui loved the village and were heroes. Obito struggled to live up to his famous, talented brother.


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## Kyrie Eleison (Sep 2, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> There is clearly inbreeding among Uchihas



That shouldn't be surprising, look how inbred the European royal families are (historically). The Uchiha clan (along with most of the other "noble" clans) probably wanted to maintain the "purity" of the bloodline so they most likely had members marrying other members within the clan (most likely cousins of an indeterminate distance).

If nothing else, at least they probably weren't as bad as the Ptolemies...



mlc818 said:


> I could see Madara as a dead beat dad, he certainly seems self centered enough.  All he cares about is his own power, his big Susanoo, and Hashirama's wood. ...lol



For some reason I see Papa Madara as being more like: 


*Spoiler*: __ 



​



Edo Madara's a living (so to speak) incarnation of arrogance (although he probably was more "normal" before the formation of Konoha and the subsequent ostracism by his clan), but he would probably push any offspring of his to be better than any Senju because their ability would reflect back upon him...So I think he'd probably be more of a high expectations parent instead of a conceited deadbeat.


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 2, 2012)

tnorbo said:


> I really don't know how people come up with these theories



Aw come on, I think this one is actually good. And it would shed some more light on Shisui, "Tobi", and the rest of the Uchiha secrets.


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## jacamo (Sep 2, 2012)

DraconianMithril said:


> Then again Shisui already made a name for himself that even the 4th Raikage Knew so Shisui could've been known throughout the 3rd Ninja War, being in his Teens while Itachi was 4.



this makes me think he was older than Obito



HeLLzRoLLinG said:


> - Was on the same team as Tobirama Senju
> - Was absent during the nine tails attack
> - Name means _"Mirror"_ in Japanese
> 
> ...



timeline fits, true facts

ck




Jay. said:


> When did he fight Ao?





"My right eye saw through the illusion placed on the 4th Mizukage"

Shisui's Koto is what enslaved Yagura... holy shit

so yeh Ao must have fought Shisui during the Bloody Mist era... whenever it started and whenever it ended --> theres our time frame


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## mayumi (Sep 2, 2012)

well, i think shishui is possible obito's brother as well however that sisui's eye would be useful just about now dumb itachi - is the thought that would come to mind if they do turn out brothers.


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## Zeno (Sep 2, 2012)

Strongest genjutsu + hax-ist ninjutsu? Too good.


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## iJutsu (Sep 2, 2012)

Next chapter it will be revealed that Obito and Shisui traded places because Shisui was too popular. Obito faked his death and switched with Shisui. While the real Shisui went off to hiding and eventually went emo.

That's why no one could find Shisui's body and Yagura was controlled perfectly.


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## Zeno (Sep 2, 2012)

iJutsu said:


> Next chapter it will be revealed that Obito and Shisui traded places because Shisui was too popular. Obito faked his death and switched with Shisui. While the real Shisui went off to hiding and eventually went emo.
> 
> That's why no one could find Shisui's body and Yagura was controlled perfectly.



That's about as likely as half the story being Itachi's genjutsu.


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## BatoKusanagi (Sep 2, 2012)

Uchihas are inbreds, so that wouldn't be surprising


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## Zenith (Sep 2, 2012)

lol Joey 

wtf are you doing here in the shitter?


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## mlc818 (Sep 3, 2012)

I thought about it a bit, and his younger brother (Shisui) committing suicide due to the failure of the clan and the ninja system would actually add more motive to Tobi's actions, so I could see this being true even if Tobi is Obito as has been implied.

And I'm supportive of anything to give Shisui more story or panel time... Itachi too, although we've gotten a lot of him so that's really unnecessary.


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## Jay. (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> this makes me think he was older than Obito
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That shit ended with current Mizukage starting ruling and 4th Mizukage getting sucked out by Akatsuki. Basically at the beginning of part 1 from naruto. Started around 10 years earlier to the story like Kakashi said.



Lt Iceman said:


> lol Joey
> 
> wtf are you doing here in the shitter?


Not Joey posting. I'm Jerome.


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## Jay. (Sep 3, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> you honestly think that all uchihas suddenly started to look the same?
> 
> There is clearly inbreeding among Uchihas



Hyuugas look the same.

Uchihas kinda differ from each others. However, pretty certain that Mikoto is not a born Uchiha. Atleast you don't have any indication for that.


I messaged her on


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## Punished Pathos (Sep 3, 2012)

Shisui is Obito's brother?

Nah...

Obito wanted Shisui's eye so that he could gain EMS?
lol nope.
Shisui was just a plot device for Itachi and Danzo


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## Rairuka (Sep 3, 2012)

They have a certain similarity.


Not to mentoin that it would be some intresting twist.


Tobi has shown anger against Danzou and was not only mad that he broke Shisui's eye, he'd be pretty pissed that he stole the eye of his brother anyway. Imagine Obito finding out that his brother comitted suicide right after that.


That would enrage him as well.


Reps +


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## Abanikochan (Sep 3, 2012)

Wouldn't be surprised if they were.


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## dungsi27 (Sep 3, 2012)

Uchihas dont understand the concept of brothers,but rather gay lovers....


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## 8Apedemak8 (Sep 3, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Mikoto is not an Uchiha you retards.
> 
> 
> It's stated somewhere that she got into the family via marriage. She is not a born Uchiha, basically shit and just a whore.
> ...



What the....


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## MinatoEMS (Sep 3, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Kagami was as old as Hiruzen (I guess)
> 
> Asuma is around Kakashi's age and therefore also around Obito's age. I guess Asuma is a bit older tho but still same Generation.
> So Kagami's son could be Obito since Kagami was around Hiruzen's age and in this manga people seem to get their children at the same time. So let's say Kagami's child should be around Asuma's age. Which would apply to Obito and/or Shisui.
> ...



Though i agree shisui is important to the plot still and it could be obito's brother, it was stated that shisui was older than itachi, because people feared him from the older generation from his shunshin. So that would make shisui his younger brother. because kakashi is older than itachi but younger than obito.


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## xAmaryllis (Sep 3, 2012)

I think so too.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 3, 2012)

Wouldn't be surprised if this were true.

It would explain why he wanted Shisui's Sharingan so badly.


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## jgalt7 (Sep 3, 2012)

hmmm, who revived this theory....

just to clarify since i pointed this out a long time ago....

shirsui is itachi's senior by about a dozen years....how?  because of the Ao comment...saying that he fought shisui.....and Ao is a middle aged man, possibly a dozen years older than kakashi.  not saying shisui is that old, but making my best guess, shisui is in the middle age of kakashi and Ao for relevance.  making Shisui older than kakashi and kakashi is older than itachi.

So, shisui is perhaps 3-5 years older than kakashi, making shisui just about a dozen or so older than Itachi, making Shisui a mentor and sort of an older brother.  This also puts Shisui at about 16-18 years old when he went up against Minato......a ripe age to have awakened the MS.

also, with this lies the possibility that obito's dead body was recovered by root.  danzo does have a tendency to collect the sharingan also.  there is a possibility that shisui traded his MS eye for his little brother;s eye.  there is also the possibility that the last memories of itachi about shisui was a lie planted by shisui using koto, thus explaining why koto was on cooldown.

but as some pointed out, this is a kid;'s manga and kishi is an awful writer when it comes to timelines.......so let's just stick to the simple explanation that tobi is obito....fuck the plot holes......not looking forward to the 10 chapters of explanations....


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 3, 2012)

A couple of things kind of go against this theory 

1. Obito says he wanted Shisui's eye

2. Minato never mentioned him during Kakashi  Gaiden, Obito never mentioned him, Obito would've said, I haven't lived up to my brothers rep


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## Jon Snow (Sep 3, 2012)

Jeαnne said:


> you honestly think that all uchihas suddenly started to look the same?
> 
> There is clearly inbreeding among Uchihas



Like there is inbreeding in Asia?


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## Moon Fang (Sep 3, 2012)

Eliyua23 said:


> A couple of things kind of go against this theory
> 
> 1. Obito says he wanted Shisui's eye
> 
> 2. Minato never mentioned him during Kakashi  Gaiden, Obito never mentioned him, Obito would've said, I haven't lived up to my brothers rep



How does 1 go against it ? If anything it actually supports it.


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## iJutsu (Sep 3, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> Like there is inbreeding in Asia?



How else do you get over 1 billion? Fuck everything that moves.


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## Rain (Sep 3, 2012)

Eliyua23 said:


> A couple of things kind of go against this theory
> 
> 1. Obito says he wanted Shisui's eye
> 
> 2. Minato never mentioned him during Kakashi  Gaiden, Obito never mentioned him, Obito would've said, I haven't lived up to my brothers rep



1. So?

2. Shisui was probably a kid when Obito died. Shisui was younger of the two.


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## crisler (Sep 3, 2012)

If they are brothers, kishi will have lots to explain...

Even though they're brothers, their eye powers are completely different? i thought the common powers in their mangekyou was one of the traits of a brother. Maybe only between eyes that can gain EMS? hmm..


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## Jeαnne (Sep 3, 2012)

Jon Snow said:


> Like there is inbreeding in Asia?





well, uchihas are supposed to be related to the elder brother's dick, as far as i know


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## Mateush (Sep 3, 2012)

I agree. No need to explain why


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## omixeo (Sep 3, 2012)

Shisui's MS would have been utterly useless to him if it took him 10 years to recharge it after each use. Even assuming he could use Kotoamatsukami once with each eye, that's still only two uses per decade, it just doesn't make sense. It just seems asinine that he wouldn't have better control over his own eyes. His eyes probably worked BETTER when they were in his own body, thus him being able to make a name for himself because of it. Danzo used the Shodaime's cells to enhance his ability to use Koto once in a day and almost have it recharged enough to use again. I'm willing to bet that without the original chakra that the eyes developed along side, they were increasingly difficult to use by a 3rd party such as Danzo or Itachi.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 3, 2012)

Falkirion said:


> 1. So?
> 
> 2. Shisui was probably a kid when Obito died. Shisui was younger of the two.



1. He said it very nonchalantly with no emotion, it was like ah well he destroyed Shisui Eye, it seemed to have no sentimental value to him other than another powerful eye

2. Of anything Shisui would be older of he fought against AO who is defintilty older than Kakashi/Obito, and if Obito was 12/13 during Gaiden Shisui would have at least been 16-17 and should have garnered a reputation that Obito would have to live up to.


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

People act as though its uncommon for young kids to already have a reputation as a shinobi. Shisui could have been like 12 when he fought Ao. Not saying he was just that he doesnt have to be in his teens or older to have fought him.

If they are brothers then Obito would have been the elder. Probably half his age by the time Obito "died".


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## Kor (Sep 3, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Both sons of Kagami Uchiha, the son of Izuna/Madara Uchiha.



Kagami would be to old to be their father, he's as old as Danzo. The son of Madara or Izuna? That's likely.


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## Sasuke` (Sep 3, 2012)

Said this ages ago. I agree.


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## Jay. (Sep 3, 2012)

Kor said:


> Kagami would be to old to be their father, he's as old as Danzo. The son of Madara or Izuna? That's likely.



So Sarutobi is also too old to be Asuma's father


Oh wait


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

Jay. said:


> So Sarutobi is also too old to be Asuma's father
> 
> 
> Oh wait



For all we know Hiruzen could've been the youngest of his group. But I agree, Kagami isnt to old to be Obito and Shisui's father.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 3, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> People act as though its uncommon for young kids to already have a reputation as a shinobi. Shisui could have been like 12 when he fought Ao. Not saying he was just that he doesnt have to be in his teens or older to have fought him.
> 
> If they are brothers then Obito would have been the elder. Probably half his age by the time Obito "died".



You really think old soul Itachi would consider someone his around his age a mentor, it's obvious that someone of Itachi's maturity would only respect someone who is much older than himself.


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## Nic (Sep 3, 2012)

Only because Kishi loves drawing parallels.


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

---------------------------------------------------
lol if i made this thread i would have been stomped

but if Jay makes it? 



Falkirion said:


> 2. Shisui was probably a kid when Obito died. Shisui was younger of the two.





Valgaav said:


> People act as though its uncommon for young kids to already have a reputation as a shinobi. Shisui could have been like 12 when he fought Ao. Not saying he was just that he doesnt have to be in his teens or older to have fought him.
> 
> If they are brothers then Obito would have been the elder. Probably half his age by the time Obito "died".



what are you guys talking about? 

Shisui fought Ao sometime during the Bloody Mist era and it was his MS jutsu Kotoamatsukami that mind controlled Yagura, as confirmed by Ao... so if that happened 10+ years before the start of the series then it means Kakashi was 16 at the time (hence Obito would have also been 16)

so if he was already famous for his Shunshin and his magical genjutsu that could *pwn Jinchuriki* , then its much more reasonable to assume that Shisui was older than Obito (if they were brothers)



jgalt7 said:


> This also puts Shisui at about 16-18 years old when he went up against Minato......a ripe age to have awakened the MS.



but he wouldnt have had Kamui


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## Bart (Sep 3, 2012)

It's a good theory ;3

A good idea as it's been brought up before but glad it wasn't a troll Joey haha ;3

But if Obito was Shisui's older brother then why didn't he prevent Shisui from giving his eye to Itachi or prevent himself from killing himself later on? But most importantly if Itachi was the only one to discover him then why didn't he just appear to his younger brother?

Unless it's revealed that Obito revealed himself to Shisui already but so far there's nothing to suggest he did unless Kishi _"reveals"_ it :WOW


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> ---------------------------------------------------
> lol if i made this thread i would have been stomped
> 
> but if Jay makes it?
> ...



Kakashi was the youngest of his generation. So Obito would have been about 19 along with others. Shisui was probably in between Itachi and Kakashi age wise. Making him old enough to fight in the war.


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## Revolution (Sep 3, 2012)

I miss Shisui.  Especially the moment I saw the title of the lastest chapter.

Let's not forget Tobis room of eyes pointing out to the Tobi-Danzo connection hinting the possibility of Tobi being ROOT


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

Bart said:


> Enter: House of Hyuuga
> 
> It's a good theory ;3
> 
> ...



because they arent brothers, i mean their MS jutsu belong in completely different categories anyway (Genjutsu as opposed to Jikukan)

or its because Tobi isnt really Obito :WOW

oh yeh and fixed 





Valgaav said:


> Kakashi was the youngest of his generation. So Obito would have been about 19 along with others. Shisui was probably in between Itachi and Kakashi age wise. Making him old enough to fight in the war.



what? where did you get that from?

i thought Obito was only 1 year older than Kakashi, at most


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> what? where did you get that from?
> 
> i thought Obito was only 1 year older than Kakashi, at most



Something I heard in another thread. Not sure how much younger Kakashi was but he was the youngest. Either way it fits for Shisui to still be younger than Obito but older than Itachi.


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## Kusa (Sep 3, 2012)

Possible.Sounds good to me.Both had to give their eyes


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## Rain (Sep 3, 2012)

Eliyua23 said:


> 1. He said it very nonchalantly with no emotion, it was like ah well he destroyed Shisui Eye, it seemed to have no sentimental value to him other than another powerful eye



Tobi has a whole different personality, to be honest.



			
				Eliyua23 said:
			
		

> 2. Of anything Shisui would be older of he fought against AO who is defintilty older than Kakashi/Obito, and if Obito was 12/13 during Gaiden Shisui would have at least been 16-17 and should have garnered a reputation that Obito would have to live up to.



Shisui was just a few years older than Itachi.  How could he possibly be 5 years older than Obito who himself is 10-12 years older than Itachi.

Ao being older than Kakashi has nothing to do with this. He could be 30 years older than Shisui and they could still fight each other.

He probably fought him when he was 12/13 years old. That would be ~ 15 years before current events.

If Kakashi became Jonin at ~ 11, i see no reason Shisui couldn't do it.


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## Rabbit and Rose (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't know about that.
Maybe. yeah that's why tobito wanted shisui's eye.


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

there is no way i can believe that Shisui was younger than Kakashi/Obito when its been *confirmed *that Shisui was there during the Bloody Mist era, fought Ao *with his MS *and then pwn'd Yagura the Sanbi Jinchuriki with said MS mind-control genjutsu... all of which happened before Kakashi was even 16

and now youre telling me Shisui is supposed to be younger than Kakashi?  thats just not realistic, he had to be older


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## ch1p (Sep 3, 2012)

I've agreed with this before. I agree with it now.



Deadweight said:


> Someone with better photoshop/paint skills than myself should try superimposing Shisui's sharingan onto Obito's to see what their potential EMS design would look like.



Obito has 3 prongs, Sishu has 4, they don't fit at all from a design perspective. Madara and Izuna were perfect fits, with a 3 / 3 ratio and vbg. Sasuke and Itachi had a double ratio and you know that was half-assed because Itachi's MS had to change slightly to fit and the mesh doesn't look as good as Madara and Izuna.

Furthermore, Obito's MS has a strange, non basic design. If I didn't know any better, I'd think his was EMS.


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## Lelouch71 (Sep 3, 2012)

I always had a suspension that Obito and Shisui were brothers. It does explain why Obito/Tobi wanted his eyes. He wanted to get the EMS before Danzou screwed him over. Hence why he was pissed off.


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## September Rain (Sep 3, 2012)

If they aren't brothers, they're definitely related. Kagami included as well. 

We don't know the Uchiha family tree, but maybe Obito and Shisui are the grandsons/great-grandsons of Izuna, and Sasuke and Itachi are the great-grandsons of Madara. It would be supportive of the combo of good brother/bad brother that's we've gotten a lot of so far from the Uchiha.


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## Rain (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> there is no way i can believe that Shisui was younger than Kakashi/Obito when its been confirmed that *Shisui was there during the Bloody Mist era, fought Ao with his MS and then pwn'd Yagura the Sanbi Jinchuriki with said MS mind-control genjutsu*... all of which happened before Kakashi was even 16
> 
> and now youre telling me Shisui is supposed to be younger than Kakashi?  thats just not realistic, he had to be older



What the hell? That never happened.

It is said that Ao was raised under the bloody mist regime, not that he fought Shisui in that time.

Shisui never controlled Yagura. That was Tobi or Madara.


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

Falkirion said:


> What the hell? That never happened.
> 
> It is said that Ao was raised under the bloody mist regime, not that he fought Shisui in that time.
> 
> Shisui never controlled Yagura. That was Tobi or Madara.



whaaaa?!?  Ao said it himself, i wouldnt be arguing otherwise


*Spoiler*: __ 








"its Uchiha Suisui's colour. i fought him once..."

"my right eye saw through the illusion placed on the 4th Mizukage"


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> whaaaa?!?  Ao said it himself, i wouldnt be arguing otherwise
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



It says they fought. Doesnt say when. And he wasnt controlling Yagura. It was either Madara or whoever was playing Tobi at the time.


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> It says they fought. Doesnt say when. And he wasnt controlling Yagura. It was either Madara or whoever was playing Tobi at the time.



oh... my... god... do i really have to spell it out for you?

completely off topic but who cares... OP was answered 


Ao was able to see through the genjutsu that was controlling Yagura because he recognised the colour of its chakra, as it was the same as Shisui's... having fought Shisui once previously

if it wasnt Shisui's genjutsu controlling Yagura then Ao wouldnt have said what he said... it doesnt mean Shisui himself was controlling Yagura, just his jutsu, he would have passed on control to Tobi - Koto can be very specific

i dont know why Shisui would have done that... but what Ao said confirms that Yagura was in fact controlled by Shisui's Kotoamatsukami, its the only genjutsu strong enough as Biju can normally prevent their Jins from being genjutsu'd


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> oh... my... god... do i really have to spell it out for you?
> 
> completely off topic but who cares... OP was answered
> 
> ...



All the more reason to buy into the Kagami-Obito-Shisui theories. If it wasnt Shisui who was controlling Yagura but someone with the same or a similar jutsu, then who else could it have been but one of them?

And Ao's word isnt law. He isnt unfailable. He was right that Danzo was using Shisui's eye to control Mifune because he recognized the chakra. But Uchiha siblings have similar chakra. As shown with their MS. He could have mistaken the chakra controlling Yagura for the one that was controlling Mifune. Its a reasonable mistake since he wouldnt know anything about Obito or Kagami.


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

lol in this case Ao's word is law

he said he would never forget that chakra... never


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## Marsala (Sep 3, 2012)

jacamo said:


> lol in this case Ao's word is law
> 
> he said he would never forget that chakra... never



And yet he didn't recognize that chakra as controlling Yagura, even though he was the one who discovered that Yagura was being controlled.

In fact, it makes more sense that Ao would have encountered Shisui AFTER he discovered Yagura was being controlled. Ao would have noticed the genjutsu on Yagura as soon as he observed his Mizukage with his brand new Byakugan.

Finally, Yagura was not actually a perfect jinchuuriki! He only appeared to be one because Tobi was controlling both him and the Sanbi, i.e. it was Tobi who was the true perfect bijuu controller along with Hashirama, Madara, and Bee (and, more recently, Naruto).


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

Marsala said:


> And yet he didn't recognize that chakra as controlling Yagura, even though he was the one who discovered that Yagura was being controlled.
> 
> In fact, it makes more sense that Ao would have encountered Shisui AFTER he discovered Yagura was being controlled. Ao would have noticed the genjutsu on Yagura as soon as he observed his Mizukage with his brand new Byakugan.
> 
> *Finally, Yagura was not actually a perfect jinchuuriki!* He only appeared to be one because Tobi was controlling both him and the Sanbi, i.e. it was Tobi who was the true perfect bijuu controller along with Hashirama, Madara, and Bee (and, more recently, Naruto).



I agreed up til here. Didnt Yagura himself say he was a perfect Jin during his talk with Naruto?


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## jacamo (Sep 3, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> I agreed up til here. Didnt Yagura himself say he was a perfect Jin during his talk with Naruto?



i dont think he ever did



Marsala said:


> And yet he didn't recognize that chakra as controlling Yagura, even though he was the one who discovered that Yagura was being controlled.



i think he did though



> In fact, it makes more sense that Ao would have encountered Shisui AFTER he discovered Yagura was being controlled. Ao would have noticed the genjutsu on Yagura as soon as he observed his Mizukage with his brand new Byakugan.
> 
> Finally, Yagura was not actually a perfect jinchuuriki! He only appeared to be one because Tobi was controlling both him and the Sanbi, i.e. it was Tobi who was the true perfect bijuu controller along with Hashirama, Madara, and Bee (and, more recently, Naruto).



but Jinchuriki are supposed to be immune to genjutsu... thats why i think the ridiculously refined mind-control jutsu Kotoamatsukami is at work here

i interpreted it differently but ok, good points... this entire Bloody Mist, Yagura, Ao, Shisui, Tobi issue is really bugging me now


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## omixeo (Sep 3, 2012)

Naruto gets sucked into genjutsu just from itachis finger.


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 3, 2012)

omixeo said:


> Naruto gets sucked into genjutsu just from itachis finger.



Only perfect Jin can resist genjutsu.


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## AlphaReaver (Sep 3, 2012)

Jay. said:


> Both sons of Kagami Uchiha, the son of Izuna/Madara Uchiha.



I would love for this to happen.


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## 8 (Sep 3, 2012)

can you imagine an ems of obito mixed with shisui. that would be an overload of hax.


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## CyberianGinseng (May 16, 2015)

*Thread Edo Tensei!*

Obito seems to be upset over Danzou destroying Shisui's eye:I still believe that Obito was Shisui's brother:Assuming they were brothers, could Obito gain control over not only Kamui, but Kotoamatsukami as well?


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## Platypus (May 16, 2015)

Oh yes, the theory of them being brothers.
It's certainly possible now that Kagami is basically confirmed not his father.



CyberianGinseng said:


> Obito seems to be upset over Danzou destroying Shisui's eye:I still believe that Obito was Shisui's brother:Assuming they were brothers, could Obito gain control over not only Kamui, but Kotoamatsukami as well?



Going EMS means getting an upgrade to your MS abilities. At least in Sasuke's case.


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## CyberianGinseng (May 16, 2015)

We never did see much of EMS genjutsu from Sasuke. He didn't appear to get Tsukuyomi but he did appear to get a genjutsu upgrade at each stage.


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## Platypus (May 16, 2015)

CyberianGinseng said:


> We never did see much of EMS genjutsu from Sasuke. He didn't appear to get Tsukuyomi but he did appear to get a genjutsu upgrade at each stage.



Well, basically Genjutsu: Sharingan getting stronger with each new eye version. As did his other abilities.
It's safe to assume he didn't get new Mangekyou Sharingan specific abilities by upgrading to EMS.

Either Obito wanted an upgrade for his eyes (assuming they're brothers) or he wanted to use Koto for something.
Dunno why he would want the EMS, because he didn't seem to suffer from the drawbacks of a Mangekyou (due to lolHashiDNA probably).
If they're not brothers, implanting the eye and using Koto could've worked, like Madara using Kamui after implanting Kakashi's eye.


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 16, 2015)

Wait.....so where are you guys pegging Shisui's age in relation to Itachi & Obito?


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## flisk (May 16, 2015)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> Wait.....so where are you guys pegging Shisui's age in relation to Itachi & Obito?



Shisui was like an older brother to Itachi, so he was a bit older. A few years maybe. Itachi was 13 at the time of the Uchiha massacre (we know he became an ANBU team captain at that age and the massacre happened shortly after).
Still, Obito is Kakashi's age. So he was around 22 at the time. So, imo, Shisui is younger than Obito.
And I highly doubt they are brothers. I think Obito was an only child. He never mentioned Shisui other than in relation to his eyes.


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## StickaStick (May 16, 2015)

I would be okay with this if it meant Kishi finally explaining how Obito was apparently able to control a Perfect Jin, which should theoretically be impossible outside of something like Koto. Although honestly this Gaiden doesn't seem like the appropriate place to address this so I don't consider the possibility likely.


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## Romanticide (May 16, 2015)

But didn't we see Obito's parents holding him as a baby? His dad didn't look like Kagami. Unless it's a "red herring" again.


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## Platypus (May 16, 2015)

^ Kagami probably isn't Shisui's dad. Official translation says _descendant_ and according to the Databook Kagami died at 25, which would make Shisui way older than he looks if he were his son.


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## Romanticide (May 16, 2015)

Hm, but the Databooks have been known to lie before...


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## Platypus (May 16, 2015)

Time line inconsistencies aside, the Databooks wouldn't lie about a side character dying at the age of 25, unless said character is meant to be a mystery villain of some kind like Obito. But I highly doubt that's the case with Kagami.


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## flisk (May 16, 2015)

Platypus said:


> ^ Kagami probably isn't Shisui's dad. Official translation says _descendant_ and according to the Databook Kagami died at 25, which would make Shisui way older than he looks if he were his son.



Ofc he isn't. There had to be at least one generation, if not two between them.
Kagami died at 25 and he was in the generation of Hiruzen, Danzo and the councilors.
They were all together as youngsters when Tobirama sacrificed himself and made Hiruzen a Hokage.



Platypus said:


> Time line inconsistencies aside, the Databooks wouldn't lie about a side character dying at the age of 25, unless said character is meant to be a mystery villain of some kind like Obito. But I highly doubt that's the case with Kagami.



Kagami can't be a villain. He just can't.


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## Romanticide (May 16, 2015)

Platypus said:


> Time line inconsistencies aside, the Databooks wouldn't lie about a side character dying at the age of 25, unless said character is meant to be a mystery villain of some kind like Obito. But I highly doubt that's the case with Kagami.



But the Databooks said Madara had died at the VotE when he'd lived up to Obito's generation, so i'm not sure.


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## flisk (May 16, 2015)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> But the Databooks said Madara had died at the VotE when he'd lived up to Obito's generation, so i'm not sure.



True, and I get what you're saying, but Kagami is meant to represent the goodness in Uchiha.
Like Shisui and Itachi were. For them to stand out above their clan pride. To see beyond that, and to do what's best for the village. The first Uchiha that Tobirama trusted with his life.
It would be illogical to step all over that just so you can make an excuse for another villain and where he came from...

EDIT: Also, he just doesn't have that face... you know... just look at him.


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## Quikdraw7777 (May 16, 2015)

Platypus said:


> ^ Kagami probably isn't Shisui's dad. Official translation says _descendant_ and according to the Databook Kagami died at 25, which would make Shisui way older than he looks if he were his son.







I looked at two translations and Hiruzen outright said Kagami was Shisui's pops.

How could they fuck that up like that.


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## Romanticide (May 16, 2015)

Unless before he died they froze his swimmers somehow? This is the Uchiha we're talking about....


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## flisk (May 16, 2015)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I looked at two translations and Hiruzen outright said Kagami was Shisui's pops.
> 
> How could they fuck that up like that.



Where did you read that?


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## NW (May 16, 2015)

@Hollow'd

The databooks just relayed information in a way the fanbase currently understood it. In other words, what was intended to be believed at that point in the manga. It's not like they lied for the sake of lying.



flisk said:


> True, and I get what you're saying, but Kagami is meant to represent the goodness in Uchiha.
> Like *Shisui* and Itachi were. For them to stand out above their clan pride. To see beyond that, and to do what's best for the village. The first Uchiha that Tobirama trusted with his life.
> It would be illogical to step all over that just so you can make an excuse for another villain and where he came from...
> 
> EDIT: Also, he just doesn't have that face... you know... just look at him.


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## Nathan Copeland (May 16, 2015)

Hollow'd Heart said:


> But didn't we see Obito's parents holding him as a baby? His dad didn't look like Kagami. Unless it's a "red herring" again.





Obito's Dad is the hooded guy!!!!


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## NW (May 16, 2015)

^ Obito trolling even in death


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## flisk (May 16, 2015)

Fusion said:


>



Such argument, much wow.


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## Platypus (May 17, 2015)

flisk said:


> Such argument, much wow.



Well if the hooded guy ends up being Shisui there isn't going to be much left of your point about him being representative of the Uchiha's good side. 


Here's the official translation for those still in doubt:


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## flisk (May 17, 2015)

Platypus said:


> Well if the hooded guy ends up being Shisui there isn't going to be much left of your point about him being representative of the Uchiha's good side.


No one has actually seen Madara or Obito draw their last breath. I assume Hashirama went back to the village after defeating Madara and left him there heavily wounded. We know they left Obito under that rock.
Kagami, he died at around 25, and right now he would be like a 100yo. And that's just absurd.
As for Shisui, he drowned himself. Everyone found his body. I doubt one can fake that, even Zetsu can't do that. Plus he made the ultimate sacrifice.
And I repeat, it would be incredibly dumb from Kishimoto to disrupt that just for the sake of an excuse for another villain.
Nothing is impossible, though this is the true definition of highly unlikely.


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## Revolution (May 17, 2015)

flisk said:


> No one has actually seen Madara or Obito draw their last breath. I assume Hashirama went back to the village after defeating Madara and left him there heavily wounded. We know they left Obito under that rock.
> Kagami, he died at around 25, and right now he would be like a 100yo. And that's just absurd.
> As for Shisui, he drowned himself. Everyone found his body. I doubt one can fake that, even Zetsu can't do that. Plus he made the ultimate sacrifice.
> And I repeat, it would be incredibly dumb from Kishimoto to disrupt that just for the sake of an excuse for another villain.
> Nothing is impossible, though this is the true definition of highly unlikely.



If his body was found, why was there a panel of Kabuto telling Tobi he tried looking for Uchiha Shisui's body but it was never found?


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## Platypus (May 17, 2015)

If his body was never found, how'd he make it seem as if he destroyed his eyes? 
Body could've been destroyed or hidden after the Uchiha found it.


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## flisk (May 17, 2015)

Oh yeah, I just remembered, he erased his existence. Shisui destroyed his own body.
You're right, I was wrong, totally forgot about that.
Damn this loophole. If Shisui turns out to be a villain, I'll be really disappointed in Kishimoto.
Though I still doubt it will turn out that way.


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## Raiken (May 17, 2015)

Didn't it say Obito was an orphan, so he was looking after his younger brother as a 13 year old while being a Shinobi as a career.

I think the whole point of Obito's character was that he was just a random run of the mill Uchiha who didn't seem to have any particular talent, without any noteworthy close/closish relatives.


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## NW (May 18, 2015)

Everyone with good taste does :ignoramus


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 18, 2015)

Mikoto is Shisui's older sister, and their father is Kagami Uchiha. Obito is the nephew, Mikoto's older sister's son to be precise. 
Shisui is Itachi & Sasuke's uncle. But there isn't much of an age gap. Obito is thier cousin.


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## BurningVegeta (May 18, 2015)

I can honestly understand the Shisui, Obito and Kagami connection but why are folks adding Mikoto into all this? 

...secondly to all those saying the connection between Shisui and Obito was so obvious, then why hasn't this been mentioned before? Even if it does fit very well. Obito's death = Shisui's Mangekyo!


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## Platypus (May 18, 2015)

Nobody's saying the connection's obvious. Unless you're talking about the 3 year old posts in this thread.


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## Nathan Copeland (May 18, 2015)

Shisui's real brother


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## MS81 (May 18, 2015)

I don't think shisui is obito brother, kagami is shisui grand father.


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## Raiden (May 22, 2015)

I thought maybe they were cousins .


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## Orochibuto (May 22, 2015)

If this is true, can you imagine how ridiculously overpowered the EMS and Rinnegan born from Obito's and Shisui's eyes would be ?

That shit would be > Kaguya.


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