# Who is the strongest Marvel/DC character Beerus can beat?



## Dark Evangel (Dec 7, 2016)

How far does he go? And before anyone tries to tell me again that this is a banned thread. No, it's not.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 7, 2016)

Hmmm...
Classic Doctor Strange.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## TobiSan (Dec 7, 2016)

Captain America


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 7, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Captain America


............................................................
Do you know who Beerus is?


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## Montanz (Dec 7, 2016)

oh boy this is not going to end well.
My best guess is anyone too slow to hax him and too weak to resist his power, quite up there but he isn't anywhere near the top dogs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlaLig (Dec 7, 2016)

[CITATION NEEDED] said:


> ............................................................
> Do you know who Beerus is?





TobiSan said:


> Captain America


... with Infinity Gauntlet I presume?

Yes, Cap with IG is a thing. Hell, even Black Panther got his turn.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 7, 2016)

Cap sucked with the infinity gauntlet tho

Reactions: Like 1


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## MatthewSchroeder (Dec 7, 2016)

Serious answer:

Skyfathers?


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Dec 7, 2016)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Serious answer:
> 
> Skyfathers?



Even Odin? Though I imagine Hakai would be particularly effective on them since it has a more powerful effect when used on Gods


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## Blocky (Dec 7, 2016)

Well, if beerus is above SSJB Vegito which he is likely is.

Then he able to beat the skyfathers most likely too


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## BlaLig (Dec 7, 2016)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Cap sucked with the infinity gauntlet tho


not his fault IG went haywire when not used in its native universe.

How about fully-starved Galactus? Could Beerus beat him?

(Because I fear if Galactus the Lifebringer is used he might stomp Beerus)


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 7, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> not his fault IG went haywire when not used in its native universe.
> 
> How about fully-starved Galactus? Could Beerus beat him?


Beats normal and starving easily, loses to fully fed lifebringer and UN versions.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MatthewSchroeder (Dec 7, 2016)

Until we get a legit answer from show, I'm not assuming Beerus > Fused Zamasu or Giygas Zamasu

Reactions: Funny 1


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## whatsausername (Dec 7, 2016)

Wish we would get more beerus feats, but dbz always sucks when it comes to explaining character abilities :/


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## MatthewSchroeder (Dec 7, 2016)

Is Odin the strongest Skyfather?


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 7, 2016)

Stops at Batman


Or BatGod to be exact


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 7, 2016)

Beerus and co already solo Marvel so...

*Spoiler*: __ 









On a serious note the current skyfathers, a normal Galactus, the hell lords, the Phoenix force, your average Celestial, and guys around this level would get their ass kick by Beerus IMHO

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blocky (Dec 7, 2016)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Until we get a legit answer from show, I'm not assuming Beerus > Fused Zamasu or Giygas Zamasu


It's possible since beerus can destroy souls but if zamasu was spreading across all 12 universes.

Then It's likely zamasu's final form might been above beerus in that case


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## Divell (Dec 7, 2016)

Superman


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## Montanz (Dec 7, 2016)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Until we get a legit answer from show, I'm not assuming Beerus > Fused Zamasu or Giygas Zamasu



I can buy Beerus being stronger than fused Zamasu and Vegito, Giygasmasu not so much.

Besides it's sort of irrelvant, in terms of speed everyone gets scaled to Whis to an unknown degree (except Beerus, he is %25  slower) and the DC is pretty much universal for every character, Beerus gets the advantage of having some soul destroying hax and being so far above baseline universal characters he gets the the benefit of that DC requiring almost no effort for him to achieve.


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## BreakFlame (Dec 7, 2016)

Divell said:


> Superman



He changed his name to Gladiator over here. Or was it Sentry?


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## Fang (Dec 8, 2016)

Beerus problem is that:

a) He's not sufficiently fast enough to blitz the top Skyfathers (Odin/Zeus)
b) He's not sufficiently fast enough to blitz even top tier Heralds levels or at best stalemated by them in speed (Silver Surfer/Thor/Beta Ray Bill/The Fallen/Stardust)
c) Even when outpowering Skyfathers or Heralds in pure DC they have hax on him; Silver Surfer for example can go into other universes like the Cancerverse iirc, shrink, teleport, phase, attack the soul, etc...he survived the big crunch energies and took hits from beings comparable to normal Galactus but its a stretch either way)

So I think nothing past Skyfathers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BreakFlame (Dec 8, 2016)

How fast is Beerus right now? Did we ever get any better feats aside from the trillions one?


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## Divell (Dec 8, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> He changed his name to Gladiator over here. Or was it Sentry?


I think it was Hyperion


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## xenos5 (Dec 8, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> How fast is Beerus right now? Did we ever get any better feats aside from the trillions one?



Whis got two quadrillions feat (casually travelling from universe 7 to universe 10 in a few hours, and travelling from Beerus's planet to Earth in just a few seconds when in a rush). Don't know if the Beerus being 75% of Whis's speed thing from the dinosaur planet feat thing still holds true but if it does Beerus is somewhere in the quadrillions range speed-wise.


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## trance (Dec 8, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> How fast is Beerus right now? Did we ever get any better feats aside from the trillions one?





xenos5 said:


> Whis got two quadrillions feat (casually travelling from universe 7 to universe 10 in a few hours, and travelling from Beerus's planet to Earth in just a few seconds when in a rush). Don't know if the Beerus being 75% of Whis's speed thing from the dinosaur planet feat thing still holds true but if it does Beerus is somewhere in the quadrillions range speed-wise.



The shockwaves produced from his and Goku's punches colliding was well into the quadrillions times _c _range IIRC


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## Gordo solos (Dec 8, 2016)

It's hard to think of Skyfathers (or hell even Herald levels) without hax


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## Deer Lord (Dec 8, 2016)

Probably skyfathers.
Cube beings and up can just warp him out of existance casually.


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## Dark Evangel (Dec 8, 2016)

Forget about Marvel. How far does Beerus gets in DC?


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

@Dark Evangel
Top-tier Lanterns maybe. Like, WL!Kyle with Life-Equation, Zero Hour Parallax, and some such.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## TobiSan (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> @Dark Evangel
> WL!Kyle with Life-Equation, Zero Hour Parallax, and some such.



This took a massive turn.

Beerus went from beating Galactus and Odin to beating a Universal+ Kyle and Multiversal Hal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 8, 2016)

It's hard to point out a place for Beerus in DC because DCs hierarchy is very weird, probably the people in DC don't even know how it goes, that's why you have the presence jobbing


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## TobiSan (Dec 8, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> It's hard to point out a place for Beerus in DC because DCs hierarchy is very weird, probably the people in DC don't even know how it goes, that's why you have the presence jobbing


Presence doesn't job and what is so weird about DC's hierarchy?


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> This took a massive turn.
> 
> Beerus went from beating Galactus and Odin to beating a Universal+ Kyle and Multiversal Hal.


? Aren't Odin and Galactus universal too? Or is that Kyle or Hal too weak to match Beerus' previous opponents? Those being Odin and Galactus?


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## TobiSan (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> ? Aren't Odin and Galactus universal too? Or is that Kyle or Hal too weak to match Beerus' previous opponents? Those being Odin and Galactus?


Zero Hour Hal Jordan would blink Galactus and Odin out of existence. Odin is barely Galaxy level and Galactus is probably Universal, neither are reality warpers.

White Lantern Kyle is Universal+ reality warper and Zero Hour Hal Jordan destroyed and re-created DCU Multiverse.

Reactions: Like 3 | Neutral 1 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 3


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 8, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Presence doesn't job and what is so weird about DC's hierarchy?


They have to much shit and they rarely say what is above what like the source, the monitors, the imps, the gods, and so on (and that's without including the Vertigo part of DC) and then you have beings that are supposed to be important but DC never gave them a proper story like Kismet


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## TobiSan (Dec 8, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> They have to much shit and they rarely say what is above what like the source, the monitors, the imps, the gods, and so on (and that's without including the Vertigo part of DC) and then you have beings that are supposed to be important but DC never gave them a proper story like Kismet



Marvel has a lot of Kismet type characters as well, they aren't important characters, pretty much one off powerful characters.

Source is created New Gods, it's an energy even though it was made to be a sentient entity in Death of New Gods, it was a one off thing. Source Wall is what contains The Source, Pre52 Source Wall used to be what separates different Universes. Now according to Morrison Source Wall separates DC creation from The Void.

Imps live in the 5th dimension and see 3rd dimension aka DC Multiverse like a paper they can draw on.

Some Gods in DC are nigh-featless some have feats, same in Marvel. For example nobody really know how powerful Marvel's Zeus is. He is supposed to be more powerful than Odin being an actual Immortal God unlike Odin but they have been shown equal in power. DC's Zeus is Universal and one of the Elders of the Universe.

Nothing complicated in DC's hierarchy. There are only few characters that make things complicated like Spectre who likes to job a lot so it's hard place him anywhere unless you only use his high-end feats which makes him Multiversal. Spectre is still one of the Arch-angels like Michael and Lucifer according to Books of Magic.

Same goes for Marvel, LT is supposed to be the top dog, but he can't beat The Beyonder and then years later he gets killed by Ivory Kings. In an interview it was stated that Ivory Kings used a weakness against him like Kryptonite for Superman.

There are writers like Morrison and Johns who like to make things more complicated because they don't care about canon, but when that happens it's usually eventually fixed by a reboot.


DC being complicated is a myth spread by people who don't read a lot of DC.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## TheManWhoLaughs (Dec 8, 2016)

They beats Marvel pantheons for sure who are around Multi galaxy to level but in DC they're around Darkseids avatars


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Zero Hour Hal Jordan would blink Galactus and Odin out of existence. Odin is barely Galaxy level and Galactus is probably Universal, neither are reality warpers.


well, tbf to Galactus, he does have Lifebringer an UN mode


> White Lantern Kyle is Universal+ reality warper and Zero Hour Hal Jordan destroyed and re-created DCU Multiverse.


wow, Hal remade multiverse? That's True Form Darkseid-tier right there...

Hm, but Beerus is a universal, possibly multiversal if he's stronger than Zamasu... Brute force universal chara then

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Cooler (Dec 8, 2016)

Do we assume a reality warper who is only say street level in scale can harm and beat someone with universal+ durability?


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

Cooler said:


> Do we assume a reality warper who is only say street level in scale can harm and beat someone with universal+ durability?


...why would we? Do we assume Lancer's Gae Bolg could kill Goku now?


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## Cooler (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> ...why would we? Do we assume Lancer's Gae Bolg could kill Goku now?



I was just checking what the opinion was here. Most seem to think hax trumps durability every time.


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## Solar (Dec 8, 2016)

Yes, I would say that the reality warper would warp the cube being.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 8, 2016)

Cooler said:


> I was just checking what the opinion was here. Most seem to think hax trumps durability every time.


Depends on what kind of hax. For example Carmen Sandiego has conceptual hax, but just plain reality warping isn't enough to beat people like Gokul


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## Qinglong (Dec 8, 2016)

Cooler said:


> I was just checking what the opinion was here. Most seem to think hax trumps durability every time.



GB (is suppposed to) guarantee the heart is hit

it doesn't increase lancer's DC significantly

it doesn't let him kill things which don't need their heart

it doesn't even let him get it off faster than he can react

destroying the weapon destroys its curse

there's multiple ways around it which are child's play for people who can mess around with stuff like the Power Cosmic

or just being durable enough

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

Cooler said:


> I was just checking what the opinion was here. Most seem to think hax trumps durability every time.


well, Idk 'bout others but most known comic reality warpers are either universal or multiversal. Right in the Beerus' league.
From the top off my head, most-known reality warpers : Franklin, Clyde Wincham and James Jaspers..


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## TobiSan (Dec 8, 2016)

Cooler said:


> I was just checking what the opinion was here. Most seem to think hax trumps durability every time.


Hax trumps durability if that hax has shown to trump that level of durability, I don't see how hax would get a free pass on feats.

Dr. Manhattan can explode people on his universe, but he can't make for example Superman explode who can control his own molecules.


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## S (Dec 8, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Beerus and co already solo Marvel so...
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


How in the hell is Beerus beating characters like Galactus or even Phoenix? sorry but i dont see it happening currently, maybe we will get more feats for Beerus in the future but as it right now the big G and Phoenix would eat Beerus alive..literally lol


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 8, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Marvel has a lot of Kismet type characters as well, they aren't important characters, pretty much one off powerful characters.
> 
> Source is created New Gods, it's an energy even though it was made to be a sentient entity in Death of New Gods, it was a one off thing. Source Wall is what contains The Source, Pre52 Source Wall used to be what separates different Universes. Now according to Morrison Source Wall separates DC creation from The Void.
> 
> ...



I know who the characters are and that's not my point, in Marvel you see all the time fights between this type of guys but you rarely see that in DC they only stick with their story, it's Gods vs Gods, Cosmic being vs Cosmic being and so on, I know in very rare instances happen but not nearly as often as Marvel



S said:


> How in the hell is Beerus beating characters like Galactus or even Phoenix? sorry but i dont see it happening currently, maybe we will get more feats for Beerus in the future but as it right now the big G and Phoenix would eat Beerus alive..literally lol


People overestimate the Phoenix and a normal Galactus, they're not above by a large marging than Odin, Beerus doesn't need more feats he's a guy that can nullify universe level energy, that his shockwaves can destroy the universe (in a suppres state), and a fight with his brother can destroy 2 universes by colateral damage, someone who can do that in Marvel isn't going lower than Odin


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## Deer Lord (Dec 8, 2016)

dafuq is beerus going to do against a multiversal psionic force
Phoenix will turn its brain to mush

Reactions: Agree 3


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## John Wayne (Dec 8, 2016)

He probably stops at the average Celestial in Marvel.


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## youresafenow (Dec 8, 2016)

Galactus. They're basically the same character.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perpetrator Rex (Dec 8, 2016)

Beerus threads. . .

Still wondering how powerful Beerus is. What did he use when we saw him fight, like 10+% of his power? Not a very good character for VS debates, especially since he gets plot power all over the place.

I could have sworn, last EP, he Hakaid a ghost. In a lot of ways, he's worse than Whis and Zeno. TTT will keep making him stronger than everyone and they can get away with it because his 1st showing had him using a minuscule percentage of his power. In 2 months, he's gonna be even worse.


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## youresafenow (Dec 8, 2016)

Perpetrator Rex said:


> Beerus threads. . .
> 
> Still wondering how powerful Beerus is. What did he use when we saw him fight, like 10+% of his power? Not a very good character for VS debates, especially since he gets plot power all over the place.
> 
> I could have sworn, last EP, he Hakaid a ghost. In a lot of ways, he's worse than Whis and Zeno. TTT will keep making him stronger than everyone and they can get away with it because his 1st showing had him using a minuscule percentage of his power. In 2 months, he's gonna be even worse.



You should be happy that they keep ramping up his abilities.


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## Perpetrator Rex (Dec 8, 2016)

You can look at it that way. I see it as just Beerus at 1/10th* vs everyone. It doesn't look good, especially if it's a close fight. Why not just wait, rather than make threads with embarrassing results?

Either way, you lose to a guy using a 10th* of their power or you stomp a guy holding back 9/10th* of their power. Literally, *any* fight he wins is a stomp.


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## youresafenow (Dec 8, 2016)

Perpetrator Rex said:


> You can look at it that way. I see it as just Beerus at 1/10th* vs everyone. It doesn't look good, especially if it's a close fight. Why not just wait, rather than make threads with embarrassing results?
> 
> Either way, you lose to a guy using a 10th* of their power or you stomp a guy holding back 9/10th* of their power. Literally, *any* fight he wins is a stomp.



Yeah he's a badass fucker. That's what I'm taking away from this post.


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## trance (Dec 8, 2016)

Perpetrator Rex said:


> Still wondering how powerful Beerus is. What did he use when we saw him fight, like 10+% of his power?



A reasonable estimate would be like, 30 maybe 40%

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blocky (Dec 8, 2016)

It's just that goku and vegeta or any arc villain isn't strong to beat beerus yet.

Beerus is most likely the one of the last guys goku will fight when DBS will end


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## Perpetrator Rex (Dec 8, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> A reasonable estimate would be like, 30 maybe 40%


Idk, man. Goku's gotta be, at least, 10x stronger than he was in BoG and he's still nowhere near Beerus. 30 or 40 seems like a lot. Tbh, even the 10% line looks like a gross overexaggeration of what he was using considering SSBKK x TEN isn't near Beerus. Even Black isn't near Beerus.


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## trance (Dec 8, 2016)

Perpetrator Rex said:


> Idk, man. Goku's gotta be, at least, 10x stronger than he was in BoG and he's still nowhere near Beerus. 30 or 40 seems like a lot. Tbh, even the 10% line looks like a gross overexaggeration of what he was using considering SSBKK x TEN isn't near Beerus. Even Black isn't near Beerus.



It depends on just how much greater his 100% is compared to say, his 30%

Say his 100% is a million times greater than his 30% output, it would still make Beerus undeniably superior to Goku/Vegeta whilst also giving Goku the credit of making him exert 30% of his power 

Just my outlook on that whole situation

Reactions: Informative 1


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## The Runner (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm sure Emo-Boy Prime might lose, if it weren't for his huge speed advantage. He also doesn't have much hax to speak of.


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## xenos5 (Dec 8, 2016)

Sir Jogga said:


> I'm sure Emo-Boy Prime might lose, if it weren't for his huge speed advantage. He also doesn't have much hax to speak of.



How far into MFTL is he? Beerus should be in the low quadrillions c.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## The Runner (Dec 8, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> How far into MFTL is he? Beerus should be in the low quadrillions c.


...

He's a Pre-Crisis level entity. 

He's in the Sextillion range.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## The Runner (Dec 8, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> K.


*63,072,000,000,000,000,000,000,000c*.


A casual Pre-Crisis Superman was in the 24 didgit Range(Septillion), assuming that Emo-Boy Prime, who should definitely be weaker initially, is a 100x weaker despite an Oan Amp  would make him level in the Sextillion Range.

Or maybe not, idgaf anymore.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

youresafenow said:


> Galactus. They're basically the same character.


we never saw galactus eating cake though..

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Montanz (Dec 8, 2016)

I believe he should be comfortably above skyfathers due to speed and DC.

Maybe he can reach up to low-mid tier celestials, anymore is stretching it.

Beating a weakened galactus is not a statement of power, as he could be anywhere from star to universal+ in power. 

Fully fed galactus would also stomp the DBS even without needing the UN.


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## BreakFlame (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> we never saw galactus eating cake though..



Lies, he did in that one Avengers thing where Spidey shoots him with the UN.

It was made from a planet, but it was still kinda a cake.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Runner (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> we never saw galactus eating cake though..

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 4


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## Clutch (Dec 8, 2016)

Perpetrator Rex said:


> last EP


Didn't Whis reveal he can move even faster than he already said he could? Beerus and above power are in an abstract range for plot purposes.

That's funny because they introduced characters who are above them.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## BlaLig (Dec 8, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> Lies, he did in that one Avengers thing where Spidey shoots him with the UN.
> 
> It was made from a planet, but it was still kinda a cake.


Wut? Even spidey uses UN now?
this picture is worth thousand heresy stamps.

Galactus eating planet-sized cake seems wrong on so many levels


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## BreakFlame (Dec 8, 2016)

BlaLig said:


> Wut? Even spidey uses UN now?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Unlucky13 (Dec 8, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Didn't Whis reveal he can move even faster than he already said he could? *Beerus and above power are in an abstract range for plot purposes*.
> 
> That's funny because they introduced characters who are above them.


Not even close.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Clutch (Dec 8, 2016)

Unlucky13 said:


> Not even close.


Do you know what abstract means? 





> *ab·stract*
> _adjective_
> abˈstrakt,ˈabˌstrakt/
> 
> ...


What are you talking about?

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## TobiSan (Dec 9, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> I know who the characters are and that's not my point, in Marvel you see all the time fights between this type of guys but you rarely see that in DC they only stick with their story, it's Gods vs Gods, Cosmic being vs Cosmic being and so on, I know in very rare instances happen but not nearly as often as Marvel


And this makes DC complicated how exactly? If you read enough DC comics it's pretty easy to understand.


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> I wasn't talking about Galactus with UN, where did you read that? Are people who are replying to me even reading my posts? What the fuck is happening.





TobiSan said:


> *Zero Hour Hal Jordan would blink Galactus [snip] out of existence....[snip]l and Galactus is probably Universal, neither are reality warpers.*



What the fuck are you on?

Reactions: Like 2


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Fang said:


> What the fuck are you on?


But Zero Hour Hal Jordan destroyed the DC Multiverse (or was it the universe?) and recreated it. He should casually destroy Galactus even with UN which has shown nothing above universal in actual portrayal according to Marvel wiki.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> But Zero Hour Hal Jordan destroyed the DC Multiverse (or was it the universe?) and recreated it. He should casually destroy Galactus even with UN which has shown nothing above universal in actual portrayal according to Marvel wiki.



You have no idea what you are talking about.

"Marvel wiki says its universal"
>actual use shows it removing a fucking high level abstract, Abraxas, from the Marvel multiverse

Reactions: Like 3


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Fang said:


> You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> "Marvel wiki its universal"
> >actual use shows it removing a fucking high level abstract, Abraxas, from the Marvel multiverse


Lol I know what I am talking about.  Multiversal Zero Hour Hal still destroys Galan even with UN. also "the Ultimate Nullifier can destroy entire time-lines from beginning to end and instantly nullify (and, paradoxically, recreate) a multiverse. Although this should be noted to be inconsistent with the Ultimate Nullifier's usual portrayal, where it is strictly limited to universe level." exact quote from Marvel wiki. So deleting Abraxas makes you multiversal? Abraxas best feats are what? Off panel killing of Galactus? Yea he is getting rekt by Zero Hour.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 9, 2016)

Zero Hour Parallax's best feats are recreating the universe numerous times, bombing several timelines out of existence and briefly stalemating the Spectre. That's all well and good but Parallax didn't affect as many universes and Abstracts as the UN has. Parallax only had a small amount of the Anti-Monitor's energy so he's way below the UN's pay grade.

It's entirely plausible Galactus could beat Parallax even without the UN.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Zero Hour Parallax's best feats are recreating the universe numerous times, bombing several timelines out of existence and briefly stalemating the Spectre. That's all well and good but Parallax didn't affect as many universes and Abstracts as the UN has. Parallax only had a small amount of the Anti-Monitor's energy so he's way below the UN's pay grade.
> 
> It's entirely plausible Galactus could beat Parallax even without the UN.


I thought it was he destroyed multiple timelines which equal to multiple universes? Briefly stalemating Spectre? Im pretty sure he defeated spectre the first time and knocked him out the panel while being sucked out of energy by multiple heroes and he did that right after destroyed the multiverse  Doesn't that count as a win? and   Hell freaking Spectre is afraid of Parallax .  I don't get how normal Galan can defeat zero hour lmao.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

>rechecked
>Abraxas was a threat to the omniverse in time if he was allowed to continue because his power was collapsing universes through the multiverse and would've gone beyond that
>comparing Zero Hour Hal to this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> I thought it was he destroyed multiple timelines which equal to multiple universes? Briefly stalemating Spectre? Im pretty sure he defeated spectre the first time and knocked him out the panel while being sucked out of energy by multiple heroes and he did that right after destroyed the multiverse  Doesn't that count as a win? and   Hell freaking Spectre is afraid of Parallax .  I don't get how normal Galan can defeat zero hour lmao.


That's my point. Parallax destroying several universes is not quite on the level of Galactus literally deleting Abraxas out of existence with the UN. This is the same Abraxas that would destroy universes just by being near them and was a threat to the Marvel Universe as a whole. Galactus deleted him out of existence and reset the entire multiverse without him. That's way out of Parallax's pay grade.

Also, isn't the whole "Spectre fears Parallax" because of Parallax being an abstract embodiment of fear and not really an indicator of power? Plus, to the best of my knowledge, Spectre wasn't at full power when he and Parallax fought. Spectre needed to be boosted to be able to evenly match the Anti-Monitor but with Zero Hour, Spectre wasn't boosted up to COIE levels which further illustrates my point that Parallax is weaker than the Anti-Monitor.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> What? I provided you a direct quote from Marvel wiki which says UN has never shown portrayal out of universal level and its dumb shit? lol k. Feats of UN affecting entire multiverse, restore alter or destroy multiple universes? Also Abraxas threat to omniverse? what when? lol he was barely a threat to the multiverse but an omniverse? Na



I see you never read the actual story and using only a wikia as a source.

Neat.

So lets recap:

- Abraxas needs full power Galactus + the UN to be put down
- Same Abraxas destroys universes simply with his presence by passively approaching them
- Stated to be a threat to the entire multiverse
- Stated to eventually threaten the entire omniverse in time if allowed to continue
- Galactus has to destroy and reboot the multiverse to create it without Abraxas existing to end him

"Feats for UN affecting the entire multiverse"

Dumb.

Reactions: Like 2


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Blakk Jakk said:


> That's my point. Parallax destroying several universes is not quite on the level of Galactus literally deleting Abraxas out of existence with the UN. This is the same Abraxas that would destroy universes just by being near them and was a threat to the Marvel Universe as a whole. Galactus deleted him out of existence and reset the entire multiverse without him. That's way out of Parallax's pay grade.
> 
> Also, isn't the whole "Spectre fears Parallax" because of Parallax being an abstract embodiment of fear and not really an indicator of power? Plus, to the best of my knowledge, Spectre wasn't at full power when he and Parallax fought. Spectre needed to be boosted to be able to evenly match the Anti-Monitor but with Zero Hour, Spectre wasn't boosted up to COIE levels which further illustrates my point that Parallax is weaker than the Anti-Monitor.


He didn't destroy several universes he wiped the entire DC multiverse and recreated it. I don't know how this isn't in a level of UN deleting Abraxas from reality? Destroy universes? Na I am pretty sure it was messing it up not literally destroying it. Oh, an agent of god being afraid of a living embodiment of fear. How isn't that a good power feat for Parallax? If Spectre is going to be afraid then Galan isn't an exception. I never said Zero hour was stronger than COIE Anti-Monitor.  Also did the image I provided not work? If not I can provide direct links.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Fang said:


> I see you never read the actual story and using only a wikia as a source.
> 
> Neat.


Feats of UN affecting entire multiverse? destroy or recreate universe?  Why would I read one of the worst storyline ever to exist with one of the worst villains to ever exist but I know how to research and his best feat is killing an alternative Galactus off panel? I am also using other sites and threads as source with actual panels not only the wiki.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

No, you need to learn how to read.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> He didn't destroy several universes he wiped the entire DC multiverse and recreated it. I don't know how this isn't in a level of UN deleting Abraxas from reality? Destroy universes? Na I am pretty sure it was messing it up not literally destroying it. Oh, an agent of god being afraid of a living embodiment of fear. How isn't that a good power feat for Parallax? If Spectre is going to be afraid then Galan isn't an exception. I never said Zero hour was stronger than COIE Anti-Monitor.  Also did the image I provided not work? If not I can provide direct links.


The DC Multiverse was one universe with alternate timelines. ZH happened a decade after COIE with the intent of bringing the multiverse down to one universe. The alternate timelines were because DC wanted to include things like the Pre-Crisis Legion, Matrix, etc.

It's not quite the same as literally deleting the entire multiverse and restoring it without Abraxas in it. Parallax isn't nearly on the same level as that even if we factor in him fighting the Spectre evenly while being drained which by the way, Galactus could do that better than Waverider did.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Fang said:


> I see you never read the actual story and using only a wikia as a source.
> 
> Neat.
> 
> ...


Scans for the 3rd, 4th, 5th plz because through my extensive searching nowhere did I found he was even a threat to Multiverse. Also Seems like I am not the only one who didn't read the actual story lol because it was Richards, not Galan who destroyed Abraxas and reboot the universe. LoL Abraxas did not destroy universes simply with his presence by passively approaching them. Every forum I read it was just messing the universe not actually destroying it. So provide scans plz.


Blakk Jakk said:


> The DC Multiverse was one universe with alternate timelines. ZH happened a decade after COIE with the intent of bringing the multiverse down to one universe. The alternate timelines were because DC wanted to include things like the Pre-Crisis Legion, Matrix, etc.
> 
> It's not quite the same as literally deleting the entire multiverse and restoring it without Abraxas in it. Parallax isn't nearly on the same level as that even if we factor in him fighting the Spectre evenly while being drained which by the way, Galactus could do that better than Waverider did.[/QUOTE
> 
> *So this is just a post saying DC multiverse is smaller than Marvel? k heard enough of these to know not to go any further into this topic.*

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 9, 2016)

At that moment in time in the 90s before Infinite Crisis happened, yeah I would definitively say so. Even post-Infinite Crisis, the DCU was smaller than Marvel's multiverse.

We have no idea how many timelines existed at the time of Zero Hour but I'm fairly certain they weren't infinite.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> Scans for the 3rd, 4th, 5th plz because through my extensive searching nowhere did I found he was even a threat to Multiverse. Also Seems like I am not the only one who didn't read the actual story lol because it was Richards, not Galan who destroyed Abraxas and reboot the universe. LoL Abraxas did not destroy universes simply with his presence by passively approaching them. Every forum I read it was just messing the universe not actually destroying it. So provide scans plz.



So you still haven't read the story. Because the UN is retconned since its origins to being part of Galactus power in every canon story since then for 616 Earth. Also don't ask me for scans while you keep bullshiting with "sources" after making it glaringly obvious you have no first hand experience with the story and keep repeating ad naseum the "wikia" like it means anything here.

"Every forum I read"

Glad to know we can disregard you going by hearsay sources.

Why do you even think Galactus was able to take control of the UN from Abraxas in the first place? Or how Reeds used it? Because its part of him. If Reed can remake the multiverse without Abraxas then Galactus can do more with it. Just like Quasar wasn't capable of doing the feat that Reed did because he's inferior mentally to Reed being a superior genius, Galactus can do more because he's an Abstract Cosmic who possesses unparalleled cosmic perceptions and understanding we know the true power of the UN is at its best with Galactus..

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gordo solos (Dec 9, 2016)

If you haven't read the story, it's best you should avoid debating feats from it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## saint rider 890 (Dec 9, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Whis got two quadrillions feat (casually travelling from universe 7 to universe 10 in a few hours, and travelling from Beerus's planet to Earth in just a few seconds when in a rush). Don't know if the Beerus being 75% of Whis's speed thing from the dinosaur planet feat thing still holds true but if it does Beerus is somewhere in the quadrillions range speed-wise.



And now Beerus Speed is around 161 quadrillions just sligtly lower.


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## Cooler (Dec 9, 2016)

saint rider 890 said:


> And now Beerus Speed is around 161 quadrillions just sligtly lower.



No it's not...that was Whis travelling faster than he ever has. Beerus doesn't scale to that.


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Fang said:


> So you still haven't read the story. Because the UN is retconned since its origins to being part of Galactus power in every canon story since then for 616 Earth. Also don't ask me for scans while you keep bullshiting with "sources" after making it glaringly obvious you have no first hand experience with the story and keep repeating ad naseum the "wikia" like it means anything here.
> 
> "Every forum I read"
> 
> ...


I know the UN is part of Galactus where in my entire shit have I doubted that? I just want scans of Abraxas destroying Universes with his presense  or him being a threat to entire multi/omniverse. Why are you being so hard on it? If you want to call my "Every forum I read" bullshit I can provide links for them lmao. Just because I want scans of what you are talking about I am supposed to read a 12 issues comics and a shit one in that lol tf  kind of logic is that just give me the scan?

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 9, 2016)

Blakk Jakk said:


> At that moment in time in the 90s before Infinite Crisis happened, yeah I would definitively say so. Even post-Infinite Crisis, the DCU was smaller than Marvel's multiverse.
> 
> We have no idea how many timelines existed at the time of Zero Hour but I'm fairly certain they weren't infinite.


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> I know the UN is part of Galactus where in my entire shit have I doubted that?



Everywhere apparently.



> I just want scans of Abraxas destroying Universes with his presense  or him being a threat to entire multi/omniverse.



So you claim you have information on the story from different "forums", threads, and sources yet don't even understand the basic premise is Abraxas destroying universes simply by coming by them more violently then MJJ warping them and ask for evidence of this regardless? You are a really bad liar.



> Why are you being so hard on it? If you want to call my "Every forum I read" bullshit I can provide links for them lmao. Just because I want scans of what you are talking about I am supposed to read a 12 issues comics and a shit one in that lol tf  kind of logic is that just give me the scan?



"Stop questioning the fact that I'm backpedaling on hearsay and have no direct arguments to bring other then I can't call out anything because I didn't read it, it shouldn't be valid!"

So again:

1) You didn't read it
2) You have no direct evidence or knowledge
3) You resort to using third party sources that are flawed, wrong, or outright lying (trying to use the Marvel Wikia as a source over the fucking comic itself)
4) You are going by hearsay repeatedly
5) You have the gall to question the very literal premise of the story of Abraxas being an evil cosmic/abstract people destroying universes and killing alternate Galactuse incarnations to literally argue that Galactus can't replicate on a higher level or use of the UN, which is part of his very being in the same showing Reed Richards can

No. No one's buying your claims.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 9, 2016)

Your image isn't working.

I've read ZH plenty.

There's nothing Hal can do that'll stop the Big G from pushing the DELETE button or turning him into a cosmic granola bar.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 9, 2016)

- reed says that the Ultimate Nulifier can obliterate the combined realities of the multiverse


*Spoiler*: __ 





and







- the mere existence of Abraxas is fucking up multiple universes and causing them to overlap



The implication here is that Abraxas can destroy the multiverse

And at the end of this arc Reed fires the UN and

a) destroys abraxas
b) erases the damage he did
c) shatters multi-eternity

all three of these are multiversal feats.

The Ultimate Nulifier is definitely multiversal.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Fang (Dec 9, 2016)

To add, Abraxas is someone on the same level of cosmic threats as MJJ at his very best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Dec 10, 2016)

Cooler said:


> No it's not...that was Whis travelling faster than he ever has. Beerus doesn't scale to that.


I thought the new argument was this proves that whis's other quad feat was casual so should scale to all the relevant folks


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## BlaLig (Dec 10, 2016)

Fang said:


> To add, Abraxas is someone on the same level of cosmic threats as MJJ at his very best.


hm? Wow, so James Jaspers was actually genuine threat? I thought 'Omniversal threat' was just hype...

Say, could he be equal to Mxy?


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## Hamaru (Dec 10, 2016)

Has anyone considered how mind-fuck abilities would effect Beerus?


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Has anyone considered how mind-fuck abilities would effect Beerus?


Ki is powered by the soul itself, he should be resistant.


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 10, 2016)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> - reed says that the Ultimate Nulifier can obliterate the combined realities of the multiverse
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Thank you for finally providing scans. If this was provided earlier I would have settled this and I never said Abraxas presence fucking up multiple universes was wrong. Fang was saying his mere presence was able to destroy universes so I wanted scans of this.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 10, 2016)

Fang said:


> Everywhere apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When did I ever say it shouldn't be valid? Lmao. I am just getting info from different resources is that wrong? I just wanted scans of wtf you were talking about lol. Also plz can you provide scans of him eventually being an omniverse threat? lol, also him passively destroying universes? because the Scans night provided says messed up universes lol not outright destroy. Also, where in my entire argument I refused the fact UN isn't connected to Galan?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Agent9149 (Dec 10, 2016)

[CITATION NEEDED] said:


> Ki is powered by the soul itself, he should be resistant.



Soul and mind aren't the same thing.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> Soul and mind aren't the same thing.


Then tell me the difference. A soul is just an immaterial mind.


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## Agent9149 (Dec 10, 2016)

[CITATION NEEDED] said:


> Then tell me the difference. A soul is just an immaterial mind.



Because they're regarded as different in all most all fictions.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> Because they're regarded as different in all most all fictions.


[CITATION NEEDED]


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## BreakFlame (Dec 10, 2016)

There's a reason Mindfuck and soulfuck are two different things.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> There's a reason Mindfuck and soulfuck are two different things.


Different variations of the same thing.


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## whatsausername (Dec 10, 2016)

So...have you guys settled on who's the strongest character beerus can beat?


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## howdy01 (Dec 10, 2016)

he gets beaten by squirrel girl, so someone below her.


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

whatsausername said:


> So...have you guys settled on who's the strongest character beerus can beat?


...No, it doesen't work like that.


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## whatsausername (Dec 10, 2016)

[CITATION NEEDED] said:


> ...No, it doesen't work like that.


 i know, used to participate in these dbz vs everything debates. It just gets locked in the end and everyone thinks they're right.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 10, 2016)

Strange is still my answer, mostly due to the speed difference.


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## Divell (Dec 10, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Zero Hour Hal Jordan would blink Galactus and Odin out of existence. Odin is barely Galaxy level and Galactus is probably Universal, neither are reality warpers.
> 
> White Lantern Kyle is Universal+ reality warper and Zero Hour Hal Jordan destroyed and re-created DCU Multiverse.


Odin on his own feats, at his best is Galaxy+ to multi Galaxy. And that's without his gear that puts him in Universal+ lvs. Galactus is equal to or above Odin at his best. Zeus seems to be above the two of them.


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## Fang (Dec 10, 2016)

Odin at his "best" summoning all of his power and focusing in a single attack against Galactus knocked himself so bad he had to go back to the Odinsleep while Galactus got back up.


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## Agent9149 (Dec 10, 2016)

howdy01 said:


> he gets beaten by squirrel girl, so someone below her.



So the Toaa?


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## BreakFlame (Dec 10, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> So the Toaa?




You understand you just said "the The One Above All", right

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Agent9149 (Dec 10, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> You understand you just said "the The One Above All", right



I did didn't I. Lol I didn't catch that all.


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## Chie (Dec 10, 2016)

Probably a weakened Galactus (the purple version)


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## Empress Angeline (Dec 11, 2016)

Chie said:


> Probably a weakened Galactus (the purple version)


Weakned Galactus is only multisolar. Normal galactus is only multigalactic.


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 11, 2016)

How about Tyrant?

I can see Beerus beating him


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## Blαck (Dec 12, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> How about Tyrant?
> 
> I can see Beerus beating him


Maybe , I mean even galactus or rather more had to rely on the UN to take him out .


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## TobiSan (Dec 12, 2016)

Fang said:


> What the fuck are you on?


Where in there did I ever mention UN?


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## Fang (Dec 12, 2016)

Even without the UN he's punked regular Celestials so again, why the downplay?


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## Id (Dec 12, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> Probably skyfathers.
> Cube beings and up can just warp him out of existance casually.


This.
Though Skyfathers is being a bit generous. Those in the Trancendent Class, carry obscure amount of power that can end reality. Dr. Fate, The Doctor, Monarch, Extant etc..


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## John Wayne (Dec 12, 2016)

Oh the wiki how wonderful. 

It lists Beerus and Champa as examples of Cube being level characters lol.


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## Solar (Dec 12, 2016)

John Wayne said:


> Oh the wiki how wonderful.
> 
> It lists Beerus and Champa as examples of Cube being level characters lol.



They are cubes-level.


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## Fang (Dec 12, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> They are cubes-level.



In terms of DC and durability. Not in the sense they have the same level of abilities as Skytfathers or Cube beings abilities with fucking around with reality.


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## Solar (Dec 12, 2016)

Fang said:


> In terms of DC and durability. Not in the sense they have the same level of abilities as Skytfathers or Cube beings abilities with fucking around with reality.



Yup, that's what I meant.


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## TobiSan (Dec 13, 2016)

Fang said:


> Even without the UN he's punked regular Celestials so again, why the downplay?


The downplay because Galactus has never shown Multiversal feats. Taking down a few Celestials is not Multiversal.

Kid Franklin was making fun of Celestial, he is nowhere near Multiversal.


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## Fang (Dec 13, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> The downplay because Galactus has never shown Multiversal feats. Taking down a few Celestials is not Multiversal.
> 
> Kid Franklin was making fun of Celestial, he is nowhere near Multiversal.



You were calling him barely universal and putting him in the same ballpark as fucking Odin, which is when I stepped in. Not that I ever claimed without the UN he was multiversal.


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## TobiSan (Dec 14, 2016)

Fang said:


> You were calling him barely universal and putting him in the same ballpark as fucking Odin, which is when I stepped in. Not that I ever claimed without the UN he was multiversal.



I wasn't sure what Galactus we were talking about, people were talking about starving Galactus. Decently fed Galactus is easily multi-universal, his energies were used to destroy 2 Universes.

I am fairly certain that you stated ZH Hal isn't anything compared to Galactus without UN while ZH Hal is easily Multiversal.


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## Fang (Dec 14, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> I wasn't sure what Galactus we were talking about



Why wouldn't the default assumption be 616 Galactus? We always assume the canon versions unless otherwise stated.



> people were talking about starving Galactus



Only one person brought a "starving" Galactus, and that same person said "fully starving", so it wouldn't just be a weakened Galactus but a directly dying one as well. Which is pretty nonsensical as far as a battle would go to put a near dead Galactus against an opponent.



> Decently fed Galactus is easily multi-universal, his energies were used to destroy 2 Universes.



I know this, that is STANDARD Galactus for his usual state or operating level. So why did you put him in the same ballpark as Odin even without the UN?



> I am fairly certain that you stated ZH Hal isn't anything compared to Galactus without UN while ZH Hal is easily Multiversal.



Only mention I stated comparing Galactus with Zero Hour Hal was WITH the UN. Not without it. Then that other guy popped in claiming the wikia and hearsay bullshit > the actual event with Abraxas and nonsense about the UN not making Galactus multiversal.


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## TobiSan (Dec 14, 2016)

I never meant to put Galactus in the same ballpark as Odin even if my wording was suggesting that.

Galactus would curb Odin.


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## trance (Dec 15, 2016)

Divell said:


> Galactus is equal to or above Odin at his best. Zeus seems to be above the two of them.



Galactus is above any skyfather at his best, bruh


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## Divell (Dec 15, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> Galactus is above any skyfather at his best, bruh


When Odin and Galactus fought, straight up power, no amps, they were essentially even, until Odin decides to use the Destroyer and Mjolnir, forcing Galactus to flee the planet momentarily. That tells me Odin and Galactus are pretty close in combat, and in Chaos War storyline, a mind controlled Zeus, took a blast from a seemingly hungry Galactus, and was fine, then he proceeds to knock him out. I'm pretty sure, Zeus and Odin are stronger than normal Skyfathers. 

And before anyone even mentions Mikaboshi inside Zeus, he did not altered Zeus's powers as Hercules was capable of easily one-shotting that same Zeus, while an amped version of that Hercules, was still unable to completely overpower Mikaboshi.


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2016)

Ahahahaha what

The same Odin even amped on the rest of Asgard's power save Thor's using the Destroyer armor could barely harm a single Celestial and got his shit kicked in regularly by them, the same guys Galactus regularly punks when he isn't made to be starving

Normal Galactus will shit push Odin 365 days a year unless he's badly hungry or in other some per-weakened condition 

Hell even going by the Chaos War story, Galactus at his normal level could probably beat every single Pantheon on Earth easily

Reactions: Agree 1


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 15, 2016)

Fang said:


> Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


Sorry for the late reply anyway can you stop nitpicking and just provide Abraxas passively destroying universes with his presence or you can't? LoL and I guess not believing in actual UN power = not believing UN isn't connected to Galan.....that logic.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2016)

You literally got rebuked dozens of times now in the thread, stop trying to get the last word in edge wise because no one is buying it.


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## Gordo solos (Dec 15, 2016)

Galactus is above most Celestials. Why are people comparing him to Skyfathers lmao


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## Fang (Dec 15, 2016)

Odin has also lost (although admittingly lasting for a long while) a major telepathic duel with Galactus and could only hurt a single Celestial with massive amping through the Destroyer armor and the collective might of Asgard sans Thor's power

Galactus was able to beat the 4 Mad Celestials with help from Franklin Richards


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## VatInTheIcus (Dec 15, 2016)

Fang said:


> You literally got rebuked dozens of times now in the thread, stop trying to get the last word in edge wise because no one is buying it.


Debunked multiple times? It was by Nighty who posted the actual scans unlike you who just tried to hide behind petty insults? K I just want the scans of many things you stated why are you still hiding behind excuses? Is this how you debate? lol First you say me using different resources is a joke then you deny to provide scans to debunk these "hearsay". Rip


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## John Wayne (Dec 15, 2016)

You're the one claiming something that goes against general belief so the burden of proof is on you.


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2016)

VatInTheIcus said:


> Debunked multiple times? It was by Nighty who posted the actual scans unlike you who just tried to hide behind petty insults? K I just want the scans of many things you stated why are you still hiding behind excuses? Is this how you debate? lol First you say me using different resources is a joke then you deny to provide scans to debunk these "hearsay". Rip



I never insulted you.

I just pointed out how hypocritical your arguments were on a story you never read, going by wikia bullshit and hearsay.

Stop lying.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## FrozenFeathers (Dec 16, 2016)

Does he beat SupesPrimeOneMillion and Pre Crisis Supes?


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## BreakFlame (Dec 16, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Does he beat SupesPrimeOneMillion and Pre Crisis Supes?



I don't think so.

Pre-Crisis had similar feats in DC/Durability and the ability to pull new powers out of his ass, literally if necessary.

SPOM was hilariously above S1M, who could casually take out 5D Imps.


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## Chie (Dec 16, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Galactus would curb Odin.


Then why didn't he in Mighty Thor? The battle looked pretty close to me.




BreakFlame said:


> S1M, who could casually take out 5D Imps.


This is not true.


Superman got _some_ power for marrying the Queen of the 5th dimension, but he was never as strong as an imp.

He also never fought any imps.


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## BreakFlame (Dec 16, 2016)

Chie said:


> Then why didn't he in Mighty Thor? The battle looked pretty close to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In the Superman/Batman team-up comic set in the DC1M story line, he and Bats run across some kind of villain gathering where a 5D Imp was going to give them all powers or something. Superman sticks him in a force bubble he can't escape from.


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2016)

Chie said:


> Then why didn't he in Mighty Thor? The battle looked pretty close to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are many times in events or stories where Galactus' power level is determined either by direct statements from characters or the narrator on his hunger level. Mephisto who Odin wouldn't fuck with in his own dimension was barely stalemating Galactus after he decided to take Nova, when the Silver Surfer pointed out he could just consume the dimension itself he gave up the fight to prevent Galactus from eating the whole realm.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Chie (Dec 16, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> In the Superman/Batman team-up comic set in the DC1M story line,


Yeah, I'm a big fan of the OM books.




> he and Bats run across some kind of villain gathering where a 5D Imp was going to give them all powers or something. Superman sticks him in a force bubble he can't escape from.


Never happened.

The only time SMOM used a force bubble was against Solaris.






Fang said:


> Mephisto who Odin wouldn't fuck with


When was Odin afraid of going up again Mephisto?


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## Fang (Dec 16, 2016)

In his own dimension? Mephisto is almost completely all powerful in Hell, and can constantly draw upon it for more powers, greater strength, and so on.


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## Chie (Dec 16, 2016)

Fang said:


> In his own dimension?


Yes. Where (in what comic) did Odin say that he was afraid of Mephisto?

Because while you say that he did, I've never heard it before and it seems pretty out of character for Odin to do so.


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## BreakFlame (Dec 16, 2016)

Chie said:


> Never happened.
> 
> The only time SMOM used a force bubble was against Solaris.



Yes, it happened. Superman gets possessed by a 5d imp and then throws him out and traps him in a bubble.


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 16, 2016)

It's been awhile since I last read DC One Million but that feat seems outlier-ish.

I guess it would justify Goldie Supes > Imps if it isn't but still, I remember Kal being spent by using his Force Vision on a galaxy.


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## BreakFlame (Dec 16, 2016)

Blakk Jakk said:


> It's been awhile since I last read DC One Million but that feat seems outlier-ish.
> 
> I guess it would justify Goldie Supes > Imps if it isn't but still, I remember Kal being spent by using his Force Vision on a galaxy.



He also punches open the time barrier and restrains Hourman pretty easily.

Also, something something supersenses. Because that helps against reality warping. I guess.


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## Blakk Jakk (Dec 16, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> He also punches open the time barrier and restrains Hourman pretty easily.
> 
> Also, something something supersenses. Because that helps against reality warping. I guess.


Well I mean there was that time where Superman repaired a rift in reality by using his HV somehow...

Superman: Applying Powers in Nonsensical Ways!


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## Worldbreaker (Dec 16, 2016)

lol that's not a 5th dimensional imp that's just a fodder ghost

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chie (Dec 17, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> Yes, it happened. Superman gets possessed by a 5d imp and then throws him out and traps him in a bubble.


That's not an imp, that's the Laughing Virus.






You can see him in the page just before yours entering Superman OM.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 17, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Has anyone considered how mind-fuck abilities would effect Beerus?


DBS characters move faster than they can think/and most probably how most psychics in Marvel/DC think.

So they blitz them, or the planet they are in before they can ever think of the word "mindfuck".


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2016)

Chie said:


> Yes. Where (in what comic) did Odin say that he was afraid of Mephisto?
> 
> Because while you say that he did, I've never heard it before and it seems pretty out of character for Odin to do so.



Doesn't seem out of character, Mephisto ranks under Dormmau and Odin fighting him in his dimension would never win. Satanish is weaker then Mephisto and bought were created by Dormmau using a small portion of their power.

Neutral setting Odin >= Mephisto
Hell Mephisto >>> Odin
Asgard Odin > Mephisto


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## Chie (Dec 17, 2016)

Stop deflecting. Where did Odin say that he feared Mephisto?


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2016)

Where did I say Odin said he feared Mephisto in the first place? I said Odin couldn't fuck with Mephisto in his own dimension. The logical conclusion would be when one considers Galactus having to eat the dimension itself to save people like both the Surfer and Nova from him, that its well beyond Odin's ballpark to deal with.

You said I was somehow "saying" he was afraid of Mephisto, I'm just saying he can't beat Mephisto in his dimension.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Dec 17, 2016)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> DBS characters move faster than they can think/and most probably how most psychics in Marvel/DC think.
> 
> So they blitz them, or the planet they are in before they can ever think of the word "mindfuck".



This was an high level skill reserved for Whis's level and Beerus to an extent. Or was this only on the RoF movie? I'm not sure if it was brought up in the anime or movie.


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## Chie (Dec 17, 2016)

Odin, Mephisto and Dormammu are all in the same tier imo.


And while they've never fought, Odin and Dormammu were chosen as the champions of Chaos and Order to play a game of chess for domination of reality and it ended in a stalemate.


*Spoiler*: __ 












Odin also didn't want Dormmamu to be destroyed because it would mess with the order of things.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2016)

How are Mephisto and Satanish or the other Hell Lords on the same tier as Dormammu who created them with small portions of his power?


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## Chie (Dec 17, 2016)

Dormammu didn't create Mephisto. And Satannish isn't even a LotSR. Do you even Marvel bro?


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2016)

Well he definitely created Satanish whose well below Dormmamu.

Should either way go Dormmamu >>> any Hell Lords. Also don't have the scans on me but I believe there is a comic where Dormmamu smacks around Mephisto in Hell.


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## Chie (Dec 17, 2016)

Fang said:


> Well he definitely created Satanish whose well below Dormmamu.
> 
> Should either way go Dormmamu >>> any Hell Lords.


Dormammu is a LotSR and at war with the other LotSR like Mephisto that has been going on for at least 47,000+ years.

If Dormammu was so much more powerful than the other LotSR then he would probably have won by now.


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## Fang (Dec 17, 2016)

Chie said:


> Dormammu is a LotSR and at war with the other LotSR like Mephisto that has been going on for at least 47,000+ years.
> 
> If Dormammu was so much more powerful than the other LotSR then he would probably have won by now.



I found this on ComicVine:


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 17, 2016)

Oomura Yoshitsugu said:


> This was an high level skill reserved for Whis's level and Beerus to an extent. Or was this only on the RoF movie? I'm not sure if it was brought up in the anime or movie.


It was mentioned in the manga, the anime and the movie.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 17, 2016)

ITT People arguing with chie


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## TobiSan (Dec 19, 2016)

Blakk Jakk said:


> It's been awhile since I last read DC One Million but that feat seems outlier-ish.
> 
> I guess it would justify Goldie Supes > Imps if it isn't but still, I remember Kal being spent by using his Force Vision on a galaxy.



Goldie Supes doesn't even have any real feats and it was stated in All-Star Superman #4 that Goldie Supes doesn't have the powers of his descendants.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 19, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> Goldie Supes doesn't even have any real feats and it was stated in All-Star Superman #4 that Goldie Supes doesn't have the powers of his descendants.



All-Star Superman isn't canonical to One Million


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 19, 2016)

Imperiex would hax Beerus out wouldn't he ? I say either Imperiex or Abraxas.

Edit: Wasn't Abraxas killing _Galactuses _throughout the multiverses and only stopped because the real Big G UN'd him ?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Dec 19, 2016)

Reed Richard's used the UN on him but it revealed in that story that the UN is part of Galactus, who took the UN from Abraxas in the first place to reboot the multiverse to remove Abraxas from the equation for good.


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## TobiSan (Dec 19, 2016)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> All-Star Superman isn't canonical to One Million



All-Star Superman IS Superman One Million, while All-Star Superman is non canon, it's canon to DC One Million.

Superman One Million even appeared in All-Star Superman #6 to give his past self a flower from New Krypton, same Krypton that was created by Hourman in DC One Million #4

He replies "Ha" to ASP asking him which descendant he is and know exactly what happened year which means that he exactly know what happened here aka he was here.


Later we see All-Star Superman changing form before going into the sun to fix himself. Which leads into DC One Million #4


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## Mr. Black Leg (Dec 19, 2016)

Fang said:


> Reed Richard's used the UN on him but it revealed in that story that the UN is part of Galactus, who took the UN from Abraxas in the first place to reboot the multiverse to remove Abraxas from the equation for good.



Yeah, wasn't it a scene that had Galactus give a speech to Abraxas like " the UN is a part of me as my heart is, so I control it and can summon whenever I want to"?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 20, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> All-Star Superman IS Superman One Million, while All-Star Superman is non canon, it's canon to DC One Million.



no



TobiSan said:


> Superman One Million even appeared in All-Star Superman #6 to give his past self a flower from New Krypton, same Krypton that was created by Hourman in DC One Million #4



doesn't make it canon



TobiSan said:


> He replies "Ha" to ASP asking him which descendant he is and know exactly what happened year which means that he exactly know what happened here aka he was here.



doesn't make it canon



TobiSan said:


> Later we see All-Star Superman changing form before going into the sun to fix himself. Which leads into DC One Million #4



no it doesn't lol, the events of both continuities do not align and we in fact know explicitly that DCOM is meant to pretty much link up with Post-Crisis Earth which ASS clearly does not take place on. Morrison is referencing elements from it but that doesn't make either of them canonical to the other.


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## TobiSan (Dec 20, 2016)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> no it doesn't lol, the events of both continuities do not align and we in fact know explicitly that DCOM is meant to pretty much link up with Post-Crisis Earth which ASS clearly does not take place on. Morrison is referencing elements from it but that doesn't make either of them canonical to the other.



There are no links to imply that SPOM is Post-Crisis Superman except Superman thinking it's him because they just say it's Superman in the sun.

Morrison heavily implied that it's All-Star Superman in both DC One Million and All-Stars Superman.

All-Star Superman descendants visit him, not to mention Superman Prime Million himself visits All-Star Superman while remembering what happened there.

Morrison himself stated in an interview that DC One Million and All-Star Superman are connected and he has no problems people thinking All-Star Superman as prequel to DC One Million.

You are new to DC writers if you think canon means anything in DC. Morrison has connected a lot of non canon and canon stories together, Morrison if probably the biggest writer who doesn't care at all about canon as long as he can tell his stories.

Morrison  has stated that he considers All-Star canon while All-Star projects were non canon projects.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 21, 2016)

TobiSan said:


> There are no links to imply that SPOM is Post-Crisis Superman except Superman thinking it's him because they just say it's Superman in the sun.



the general context of how the DCU worked in 1998 (when DCOM was published) contradicts this heavily. Also I think Kal Kent has appeared in other one off issues in mainline DC titles as well but I'm not quite sure if I'm remembering this right.



TobiSan said:


> Morrison heavily implied that it's All-Star Superman in both DC One Million and All-Stars Superman.



it would be literally impossible for Morrison to imply in DCOM that it was a continuation of ASS since DCOM was published 7ish years _before _ASS.



TobiSan said:


> All-Star Superman descendants visit him, not to mention Superman Prime Million himself visits All-Star Superman while remembering what happened there.



irrelevant fluff



TobiSan said:


> Morrison himself stated in an interview that DC One Million and All-Star Superman are connected and he has no problems people thinking All-Star Superman as prequel to DC One Million.



they're obviously connected but this doesn't make them canon to each other. Earth 1 is "connected" to Earth 2, but the events of Earth 1 are not the events of Earth 2 or vice versa. Morrison is borrowing ideas that he has about the future of Superman to use again and explore but this doesn't make an out of continuity self contained work like ASS canon to an in-continuity crossover event like DCOM

Second part about him having "no problem" with thinking that in fact directly implies the exact opposite of what you're suggesting, that the reality is not the same as what people think or would like to think.

Look it's basically as simple as this one fact you cannot refute, the events of DCOM do not align with the events of ASS.

1. Superman in DCOM is said to have been a superhero on Earth until the end of the 21st century whereupon he passed the mantle to Superman Secundus. Meanwhile in ASS Superman dipsets in the early years of the 21st century and does not have an obvious successor to create the Superman Dynasty with.

2. Superman in DCOM goes on a long spiritual journey that takes him throughout the cosmos before eventually coming back to earth (literally many thousands of years later) and making a deal with the Superman Dynasty while he chills out in the Sun. Superman in ASS does not undertake this voyage, merely going from the Earth to the Sun with no extended period in between.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TobiSan (Dec 22, 2016)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> the general context of how the DCU worked in 1998 (when DCOM was published) contradicts this heavily. Also I think Kal Kent has appeared in other one off issues in mainline DC titles as well but I'm not quite sure if I'm remembering this right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How DCU worked in 1998 is irrelevant because All-Star Superman was published 2005. What issues has Kal Kent appeared in then?

How would it be impossible for Mirrosn to say that All-Star is a sequel to DCOM? You mean he can't create sequels after DCOM? Go read his interview for All-Star Superman #12.

How is it irrelevant that both DCOM and All-Star Superman reference to each other?

Earth 1 and Earth 2 are not connected, bad example.


Yes I can't refute that ASS future doesn't align with DCOM, mostly because we don't see ASS's future. We just see him changing and leaving.


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