# Star Ocean 4 vs Final Fantasy XIII



## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

So when i got my 360 the first game I got for it was FF 13. When I got my PS3 the first game I got for it was Star Ocean: The Last Hope.

Both long-running series from two companies that now are one. Both highly contested entries in those series as well.

So...which did you like better and why?

Which soundtrack did you like more?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqVfZyLSrpY[/youtube]


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

13 is just mediocrity while SO4 is outright garbage.

On the other hand in SO4 you can at least do something else than running in a straight line and fighting.

It's like a clash of 2 rhinos made of turd.

I'd have to go with 13, at least it looks good in some places and the mythology they created is quite amazing, although absolutely wasted.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

ugh..if i have to choose i'd pick 13. The original 13 wasn't a good FF by any means, but it was an decent, if unremarkable JRPG if you like hallways and linear plot and story progression. Great music, good production values, and Sazh and fang were decent characters  I also thought the battle system was enjoyable, which helped.

Star Ocean 4 is just a bad game period. Especially coming from Star Ocean 3 which i consider to be a good JRPG, its like if the creators just said fuck it and threw out basically everything and started again with garbage cliches at every turn as well as terrible graphics and a horrible story. It was basically a slightly more polished Infinite Undiscovery, which was even worse then that.


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## Stunna (Dec 31, 2013)

Haven't even played SO4, but FFXIII is gawbage, so can I vote for the former anyway?


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## Kaitlyn (Dec 31, 2013)

Let me put it this way; When I beat FFXIII, I had no motivation to do post game stuff. While on SO4 I at least attempted to do some coliseum stuff and one of the post game dungeons until I got bored of grinding monsters for gems and general completion. 

You can debate the stories and characters all you want, but overall SO4 was way more fun to play.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

@Inuhanyou

WHAT?

Fucking WHAT?

Please rethink your post. You are insulting a game for having cliches while in the same breath praising SO3. You are insulting a game for its story in the same line as callign SO3 a good game.

Okay first off, there is not a worse RPG story than Star Ocean Till the End of Time. You know why? Because it has two disks and two stories that have NOTHING to do with each other. Everything on Elicoor II? Fighting a fantasy war, getting a dragon, stumbling upon the clone of your terrifyingly generic love interest Sophie who just happens to be dying for the worst executed melodrama ever? That means fucking nothing. Oh sure, the game expects you to waste several hours of your life. You are literally dying as you play the first disk of Till the End of Time but fuck if they care. Because then the Vandeni show up and  the plot is going into space again.

Oh and the Vandeni, despite all the build up, are irrelevant too.

Now you are in space, now you are in 4D Space, now you are dealing with an evil corporation and questions of existentialism.

So why did I fight that fantasy war on the most goddam bland and generic and painfully dull planet ever in fiction? Why did I help build their super-symbological weapon? no reason at all. It has nothing to do with the real plot of teh game. The only relation to the story it has is there is an item on that planet that you need. That's it. Everything else was just stupid and pointless and does not even vaguely connect to the Enforcers or Luther or anything.

Oh and don't forget MP Death. What moron thought of that game mechanic? I hope they were fired right after the story writes were burned at the stake.

Even FFXIII managed a more coherent, cohesive narrative than SO3. Hell, FFVIII had a betterand more logical story than SO3.

I can think of no higher insult than that.

Fuck.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

I think we can all agree that Masashi's soundtrack was clearly out of place in 13. It belonged in a much better game IMO. That's all i could think of while playing through it. Of course had i known beforehand how the game turned out, i would have said the amount of money they threw into the production would have been better spent elsewhere as well. At that point however, your just hoping for the impossible. 

The "13" we got was absolutely criminal for the amount of good will and hype SE got for the buildup, and that's the only reason why it sold 5 million copies initially which makes up for the bulk of the XIII series sales to date. The payoff was not there at all. I think that's what stings the most about FF13. If it was any other average JRPG series, it would have been an a slightly below average game. But for FF, coming off of 12, 11, and 10? That's ridiculous.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> @Inuhanyou
> 
> WHAT?
> 
> ...



Its all relative. Compared to SO4, i thought SO3 was a good game. I liked Nel as a character(always the Nel ending), Abel was cool. And Fayt wasn't really that annoying based on how i played. I ignored Sophia as much as possible and i went full Chaos mode once i got good enough at the battle system, which was fun. The only thing i didn't like about SO3 was how you could easily get lost

This is in comparison to SO4 and the adventures of "Edge Maverick".


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## Toph (Dec 31, 2013)

They're both flawed games, so it's difficult to say which one you'd enjoy more. 

Hmm... Final Fantasy XIII has better graphics, better setting, better voice acting, better level designs, better soundtrack and combat system. Though, I felt like I was spamming with the Auto-Attack system. Final Fantasy XIII mostly had just the player walking forward with the occasional side-path, but kept the scenery interesting, had frequent save points/shops, and plenty of warp points in the one level that was open. Overall, boring from a gameplay perspective, but not irritating. 

Star Ocean 4 had frequent yet repetitive puzzles, filled with backtracking. Plus, save points and shops were both scarier than comfortable as Final Fantasy XIII. Though, Star Ocean 4 has better characters and an overall better writing than Final Fantasy XIII.

In the end, my choice between these two would definitely be FFXIII. Then again, it's all about personal preferences.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Sorry....let me take a breath.

I literally hate no jPRG more than I hate SO3. As much as XIII crushed me with disapointment, it is nothing on SO3.

....phew.

Nel was a good character. Probably the best character in the game in fact. We agree on that.

Fate Linegod (that's his name. and people make fun of Edge Maverick. At least those are names. What the fuck is Linegod?) was terrible and annoying though.

Albel was a lot like SO4's Arumat ie. trying too hard to be badass. I don't like those types.

Now back to tr topic at hand before i get all riled up again.

Even I liked a few things about XIII. The main party was decently strong, each having their own personal and understandable motivation to be there. A big part of what kept me going was waiting for the inevitable Snow/Hope confrontation as they were my favorite members of the party. I felt that whole subplot was expertly done.

Sazh and Vanille also had a wonderful dynamic and I did not see their subplot's ending coming at all. It was also adequately emotional.

The problem lay in Lightning, whom I hated, and Fang, who i didn't care about.

Then of course you end up on Pulse and the character development just dies and now it's all about "the Plot." God save us from FFXIII's plot.

The very beginning of the game is also very frustrating as they literally bombard you with terms like Cocoon, PSICOM, Sanctum, fal'Cie, etc.. I didn't get any of this until I looked it all up and by tht time I was scratching my head in irritation. This is bad storytelling. Contrast with FFVII, where Barret is kind enough to explain what the hell is going on here with the Mako Reactor and what Mako is. FFVII has a very fast paced beginning just like XIII but the former was well-done while the latter was not.

SO 4's beginning is also nice enough to give you some exposition to explain everything that's going on. Exposition might be a bit of a lazy tool but it's still better than having to search datalogs or get on the internet and ask people.

I guess I'd say SO 4 had a better articulated and put together storyline while XIII had deeper characters. Not more likable - definitely not - but better explored and easier to relate to. 

Also the music of SO4 deserves more credit. Sakuraba is a genius.


This song is probably my favorite in the whole soundtrack. It's so haunting and unique for a boss battle theme. XIII's boss themes are very typical and uninspired by comparison.
[youtube]kN78MPuVquQ[/youtube]

Some other great tracks:

*Spoiler*: __ 




[youtube]DnD-o5FI4zo[/youtube]
[youtube]5ZFKsybhalE[/youtube]
[youtube]FqfEKdHxb8c[/youtube]
[youtube]oUn1bOEKG-I[/youtube]




Now this is one of my favorite elements of the OST and how it helps with the storytelling.

Silk Road in the Sky I

*Spoiler*: __ 




[youtube]xx8iDjeD0d8[/youtube]




This is the track for when you first arrive oN Aeos, the first human site of human exploration to new world. it feels appropriately beautiful and mysterious - this is a new chapter in the history of our race.

Contrast with 

Silk Road in the Sky II

*Spoiler*: __ 




[youtube]gRmfJev-2kw[/youtube]




The sort of "nature-y" sound is gone, to be be replaced with this odd mechanical tune. It's imposing and it perfectly sets the tone for the game finally kicking into high gear with the true enemy revealing itself.

Music exists to help tell the story and I feel SO4's soundtrack did a better job of that.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Yumei said:


> They're both flawed games, so it's difficult to say which one you'd enjoy more.
> 
> Hmm... Final Fantasy XIII has better graphics, better setting, better voice acting, better level designs, better soundtrack and combat system. Though, I felt like I was spamming with the Auto-Attack system. Final Fantasy XIII mostly had just the player walking forward with the occasional side-path, but kept the scenery interesting, had frequent save points/shops, and plenty of warp points in the one level that was open. Overall, boring from a gameplay perspective, but not irritating.
> 
> ...



I prefer being able to explore. FFXIII hated exploration with a passion. You couldn't even visit towns or anything to make the world feel alive. Everything felt beyond dull.

With SO4 though you got to explore different planets and stuff. SO4 really was smart to finally let the Star Ocean series finally be about traveling the star ocean as you got to see and look around a lot of cool places, both high tech and fantastical.

And anything is better than this.


Plus no dungeon SO4 is worse than Taejin's Tower on Pulse. It's ugly for one and looks like a poor man's Pharos. TFor two, if you want to talk about repetitive puzzles, "go here and kill this." And just keep doing that again and again and again and again.


For characters, I agree SO4 was better in terms of likability. I certainly didn't hate anyone in the party like I hated Lightning. I think SO4 benefited from having a lot of silliness with Private Actions that helped endear the characters to you while FFXIII's party was "SERIOUS." And I think Faize, Bacchus and Myuria were  legit good character.


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

lel, SO3 is like a Vagrant Story compared to shit travesty that is SO4, how can you even compare.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Maybe because one tells a story where the beginning relates to the end while the other is SO3.

EVERYTHING IS AN MMO! How does this relate to fighting an evil kingdom on shitty stock fantasy planet? IT DOESN'T. But fuck you.

SO4's narrative is a masterpiece of pacing and cohesion by comparison. You go into space, land on a planet, encounter a mysterious object that turns people into monsters.
Go to another planet, find the same thing on a ship belonging to an alien race.
Go and confront that race and learn about what the object is.
Then there is a detour as you go back in time and then to Roak but ....well, it's character development for Edge and Reimi.
Anyway, you return to the main story and learn even more about these mysterious objects and how they are affecting the entire galaxy and threatening all life. Finally you go and confront their base of operations and destroy them.

Bing, bang, boom. Simple.

You did not encounter a random clone of your girlfriend on a random planet. You did not spend hours building up a weapon to use in battle only to have the battle end before it began. You did not explore a planet for a few dozen hours only to have it all rendered meaningless.

And did I mention character development? That's another thing SO3 lacks.


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

Everything story and pacing wise in SO4 was atrocious. You're confusing cohesiveness with mind numbing, by-the-numbers predictable genericness.

SO3 tries to have this thing, what was it called, people also like to have it, oh yeah, intrigue. And that other thing... oh yeah, writing skills.

Not that SO3 is a particularly well made game, but when compared to an insult to humanity like SO4. Oh boy.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Oh give me a break. Nobody in SO3 tried to have writing skills. If they did, they wouldn't have taken two completely different games then slapped them together. The end of SO3 has nothing whatsoever to do with the beginning of it. That is a worse affront to the most basic storytelling than anything committed by SO4.

And SO4 had intrigue. Why did this crew turn into monsters? What is this object that caused it? Where did it come from?  And later what happens to Faize as we see him and his mind unravel. What are the Seeds of Hope and why are Edge, Reimi and Crowe special? Etc..

And BTW, you can't even explain SO3's ending. Luther deleted the Eternal Sphere but it still exists because...? Exactly. It doesn't make sense. It just happened because the writers of the game couldn't write at all. They and their twist aren't even Shyamalan level. They aspire to be on that level in terms of writing competence.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

SO3 i thought had better characters than SO4 by far, which for me can mask a paper thin plot. They were much less generic than "main blond hero dude", "generic childhood friend", "generic inquisitive alien type", "generic fatass ignorant higher ranked officer" and "generic childhood friend/friendly rival".

Again, this all relative. Sophia was a generic childhood friend as well, but for every sophia you had a nel, a cliff, a maria or a mirage. I compare that much more favorably than the skimpy outfitted aliens in SO4, or "generic mute goth lolita girl who constantly says the same thing over and over because kawaii".  Lymle is by far the most offensive character in that entire game and i muted it every time she showed up on screen....in a way Vanille is similar to her, but i don't even put Vanille on that level.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

I had no problem with Lym. I also didn't know it was that common for your party to feature a traumatized youth who had her emotions stunted. I guess it's not a new concept but it sure wasn't in any of the Final Fantasy's or Xeno games or Baten Kaitos.

And of course SO3 had Peppita, another loli type. Just a different type of loli. The spunky and upbeat type.

As for Vanille, she was friendly and had a humorous relation with Sazh. Traveling with them was better than traveling witH Lightning and Hope where Light encouraged Hope to get ready to kill Snow. Good character, that Lightning.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

Peppita was just a normal girl, not a mental retard like Lym was. The way they executed her was terrible IMO, even though as you say, her backstory had potential. And also, i gave SO3 credit because i could ignore Peppita's parts entirely and not even have her travel with me. I was forced to have Lymle with me, FORCED i say


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

I guess....

Personally, if any character in SO4 would send me running to the hills, it be Welch.


But even then, she wasn't always terrible. I genuinely find this scene amusing.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6eCYKtdTVI[/youtube]

SO4 is a self-aware game and I appreciate that. Scenes like this just let you know the developers can rib on themselves and their own fanbase.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

Now there's a turnaround from SO3 to SO4. How can you take the modestly plucky alchemist who helps you create shit from 3 and turn her into moefied megannekko garbage from 4 is beyond my understanding. The developers were ribbing in some parts, but that doesn't excuse them from blatantly pandering for most of the game. "Hey your kinda being self aware but obviously are still going ahead with it cause its sadly the true intention, its a parody guize!"


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Well aren't you kinda missing the point there? They have to include that other stuff or they couldnt' very well be aware of anything. lol It's an otaku game for otakus is my point and if they cut out all the jiggles and whatnot,  it wouldn't be an otaku game and they couldn't reference otaku culture to make fun of the people playing it.

I was just contrasting witH FFXIII which was way too serious and trying way too hard.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

I agree about that..but there are clever ways of going about it that seem to sail over that game's head 

Personally the storyline was very overwrought in my opinion. What i mean by that is it was filled with a whole lot of nothing in particular. Even the supposed emotional moments like
*Spoiler*: __ 



edge accidentally exploding the world


 seemed phoned in and hammy to boot, especially considering the emotional impact that scene should have had. It could have been the creepy mannequin like character models with no emotional subtlety taking the air out of the scenes, but i would not know


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## Lord Yu (Dec 31, 2013)

SO4 at least had that delicious combat system. But honestly, I think I'm angrier at SO4 than  FF13. SO4 outright slaughtered it's franchise. If SO3 killed it, SO4 cremated it so it could never be resurrected.


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

You can say 13 slaughtered it's franchise as well. The entire company in fact. They're still living in it's wake even after all the reorganizations.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

And after SO4 it never will be. After FF13, i wasn't crushed. But i was looking forward to Versus at the time and a new setting.

SO4 just made it so that there literally is no point to another one unless they just reboot the whole thing and have someone else work on it. Cause tri ace wasn't working at all.



Joakim Mogren said:


> You can say 13 slaughtered it's franchise as well. The entire company in fact. They're still living in it's wake even after all the reorganizations.



I don't think 13 as a game killed the company though, it was actually well received critically.  Its development was what set back everything. Along with 14 1.0 which bombed at the same time and so they had to recoup costs and push back all projects which leads to right now where multiple sequels take priority and versus no longer being a thing. I think it all points back to crystal tools for the development side(atleast in terms of linearity), but in terms of story-line its all toriyama and daisuke.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I agree about that..but there are clever ways of going about it that seem to sail over that game's head
> 
> Personally the storyline was very overwrought in my opinion. What i mean by that is it was filled with a whole lot of nothing in particular. Even the supposed emotional moments like
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...




Well we are in agreement on that subject. I also felt that scene wasn't quite as poweful as it was supposed to be. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



For a scene that did work, at least IMO, it would be Faize in the end as the Apostle of Creation and Satanail. I did feel sorry for him and I thought the whole thing was done decently enough.






Lord Yu said:


> SO4 at least had that delicious combat system. But honestly, I think I'm angrier at SO4 than  FF13. SO4 outright slaughtered it's franchise. If SO3 killed it, SO4 cremated it so it could never be resurrected.



The game did very well in terms of sales. Not great but for a non-FF JRPG in this day and age, it did okay. 

It was supposed to be the last game in the series anyway, or so I've heard.


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

> I don't think 13 as a game did though, but its development surely did. Along with 14 1.0 which bombed at the same time. I think it all points back to crystal tools for the development side, but in terms of story-line its all toriyama and daisuke.


Not 13 per se, but the whole Fabula thing. 13 heavily underperformed, it's production a disaster that shook company to the core, Agito was in a limbo because handheld market shifted, eventually underperformed as well, Versus was in a development hell. All their great plans for the future completely slaughtered, an avalanche starting with 13.

We're not counting 15 obviously, but the franchise is in complete ass right now. The only difference with SO4 trash is that SquareEnix is a huge corporation and can afford multiple big budget games developed at the same time. If they were just Square and had only 13, the series might have actually died by now. Or was on a hiatus.


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## Stunna (Dec 31, 2013)

Wait, SO3 killed the franchise? Granted I haven't played anything before it, but I love that game.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

Joakim Mogren said:


> Not 13 per se, but the whole Fabula thing. 13 heavily underperformed, it's production a disaster that shook company to the core, Agito was in a limbo because handheld market shifted, eventually underperformed as well, Versus was in a development hell. All their great plans for the future completely slaughtered, an avalanche starting with 13.
> 
> We're not counting 15 obviously, but the franchise is in complete ass right now. The only difference with SO4 trash is that SquareEnix is a huge corporation and can afford multiple big budget games developed at the same time. If they were just Square and had only 13, the series might have actually died by now. Or was on a hiatus.



Uh actually i would not say fabula was the issue either. Type 0 is a great game by handheld standards, and did well in Japan(although the handheld market obviously died before it could come west). And Versus/15..well i was interested in that from the beginning.

The thing that completely diminshed the FF series from its PS2 glory IMO are 3 things.

1. FF13 being a mediocre title. Even while not being offensively bad or broken, it was still a disappointment to fans looking for a true next gen Final fantasy born from all of the previous good things about the franchise. And after all that hype, it was going to hurt the franchise regardless by not delivering.

2. FF14 1.0 bombing was probably an even bigger blow due to 11 being such a well received, title, to the point where they had to go back and spend 4 years remaking it while basically firing every single person that had to do with that project.

3. And even bigger than any of the previous reasons IMO : 13 SEQUELS. Lighting would not even be half as much of an issue to fans if they had just left 13 alone and not insisted on going on this lightning obsessed road trip with Toriyama. That was the thing that diluted the Final Fantasy brand by far. You made 2 terrible sequels to a game people were already disappointed with over a period of 4 years with virtually nothing else to fill the gap besides promises that even today haven't yet been kept. For most people SE is nothing but failed promises.

And on top of all these things is their desperate transition into the smartphone and iOS market. For every countdown clock that ends in the reveal of a shallow smartphone or iOS game instead of the memorable console titles they are remembered for, another previous SE fan just gets fed up and renounces them. Its a problem.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Stunna said:


> Wait, SO3 killed the franchise? Granted I haven't played anything before it, but I love that game.



The twist that everything is just a video game did not go over well with fans of the series proper. Well, fans of The Second Story because SO1 was never released here on the SNES. But SO2 for PS1 was pretty popular as it came out in what was possibly the best era of JRPGs.

Anyway, people did not take kindly to this stupid third game saying that the epic events of the first and second game were just part of an MMO constructed by these hitherto unknown 4D Beings.

The fact that the twist itself was handled so poorly didn't help.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

there were people who didn't like it, but there were others who didn't swear by the original games who did enjoy it. As for me, i liked the first and second games, but they obviously weren't connected enough to be considered an affront to the previous characters's stories.


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## Joakim Mogren (Dec 31, 2013)

> Uh actually i would not say fabula was the issue either


then you would be wrong.

It doesn't matter how great the game is, Type-0 underperformed by their standards and they couldn't even release it outside Japan because nobody gave a fuck about PSP by then.

14 is out of the equation completely, from the get go MMO titles were given a completely separate attention and expectations. Whether 14 would fail or succeed it would be no sweat of the balls for the main franchise.

Sequels have nothing to do with the problem either, they're cheaply made attempts to fix the main offender - 13. SE was in a complete disorder and that was the only thing they could do to make some financial amends. It seemed logical for them that if they could fix 13 problems, the sequels would bring some extra cash. But they literally fixed nothing.
It's by now expected to wait a long time for new main entry in the series, and it's completely irrelevant what came in the gap. Were it some sequels, spin-offs, whatever.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

You misunderstand my point.

What i listed are the reasons why the franchise has become increasingly irrelevant to consumers. Not whatever development issues SE might have, which i honestly don't care about because what matters is the result, the games themselves. If SE can't fix their shit that's their problem, i won't buy the product.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

uuuggghh. I'm just remembering the cringe worthy shit. How her "character arc" lasted for like 10 hours, and you can plainly see where she just ceases to develop, its in the fucking caverns under nibelheilm when they find the food falcie. Agh what a load of shit.

When you can tell  when a character has nothing more to add to the narrative, its when you need to think about offing that character, but lighting persisted.

I still don't understand how you learn all the secrets of the world just by figuring out that the falcie think of humans as pets toriyama, i really don't. Where you drunk when you were writing 13?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Ya know the fal'Cie are a great concept but they are executed terribly. It's never clearly explained what level of sentience/sapience/power they have.  On the one hadn you have magic man Barthandalus who kicks ass and can talk fine. Then you have the fal'Cie on Pulse who is just a big spinning wheel thing you can overpower and use as a shuttle.

But if you go out of your way and do shitty sidequests, you learn the fal'Cie, despite the appearance of being the mighty robo-gods reigning over humanity, have it even worse than we do. They were created by an uncaring being and they are stuck in their roles FOREVER. If you are the fal'Cie in charge of sewage, sucks to be you because that is the whole purpose of your existence from now until the end of time.

Or, as Barthandalus schemed, the end of Cocoon. Because death is preferable to eternal servitude. Their grandeur and might is all just a show as they are slaves in a gilded cage.

And that is what FFXIII was going for. It failed miserably to convey this in a good way though so....props on awesome idea but failing to use it.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

speaking of that, did they EVER explain who this mysterious god who created humans and falcie were to begin with? I suddenly hear Raines talking this bullshit to me about gods creating the world(when there was no evidence or even hinting of such a thing before hand in the narrative) and i said "oh shit, they actually had the balls to fucking put all the critical backstory in a fucking novel".


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

Oh yes. They did explain it.

Are you ready for this? Here is what Cid said.



> Raines Why? To restore the Maker.
> 
> Hope The Maker?
> 
> Raines The entity responsible for creating both humans and fal'Cie. Long ago, the Maker departed this world, leaving the two races behind.In a sense, human and fal'Cie are brothers; orphaned by the same parent.



In the original Japanese, Maker was actually just "God."

So a God, with all the big O's like Omnipotence and Omniscience and whatever, created both the robo-gods and humanity. That is what is being said.


BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ@ WRONG WRONG WRONG!

Supplementary material not even found in the game explains that it all started when a chick gave birth to a guy who killed her and then created three other gods. These were Etro, Lindzei and Pulse. Etro made humans, Lindzei made Cocoon And its fal'Cie and Pulse made  the planet Gran Pulse and its fal'Cie. Oh and these three are also fal'Cie. Just...super fal'Cie I guess.

And Etro is the reason everyone was saved in the end of XIII. And, no, the anm Etro is never onced used in the game.

So instead of a simple story of God making angels (the fal'Cie) and humans, we are given a whole mythology that is NEVER hinted at in the game and is actually contradicted by what the main story of said gAme tells you.

Do you see now why I hate XIII? I didn't think XIII was so bad after finishing it you know. I thought it was okay more or less. Then i learned everything I thought I knew about the plot was contradicted by shit not even in the game.

So fuck you Final Fantasy XIII.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 31, 2013)

Well obviously. This is why 13's narrative is fucking garbage. cause they try and bring that shit into 13 2 and 3 but you still don't even explain the context for their existences.

Lighting all of a sudden is protecting some god in another dimension at the beginning of XIII-2, even though we have no idea what this god is, where it came from or why it was never even explained in the first game. Its just absolute ass


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## Zaelapolopollo (Dec 31, 2013)

I mst admit that the poll is a lot more even than I expected.

Ya know, for all the hate SO4 gets from old school fans, it has like 5-10 hours that is a love letter to SO1. You are on Roak, you meet the races there, you meet relatives of the characters from the game.... You even stop the resurrection of the bad guy from that game.

Plus it has a shit ton of arrangements from the game











So even if classic fans hate this game, it is this game that makes me want to try out the first games. That's a helluva lot more than SO3 did I can tell you that.

I can't get a PSP at the moment but when I do, I really want to check out the remake of SO1 and 2. While I'm waiting though, maybe I'll try a translated rom of the original Super Famicom Star Ocean.  I mean, this is a pretty amazing normal battle theme for the SNES era.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzO0EzqFKb8[/youtube]


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 1, 2014)

I don't think SO4 is making any normal person who never played the originals any more enamored with the series


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## Agmaster (Jan 1, 2014)

I beat 13 some years back and never really thought about it, but given it's true lore vs presented lore I notice something kind of gross and sad.  It's just like halo and other fpses that do novelizations.  What is with the refusal of games to dole out story for people?  It's like AAA game devs only watch silly letsplays that talk over cutscenes and feign impatience or something.


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## Mintaka (Jan 1, 2014)

> So even if classic fans hate this game, it is this game that makes me  want to try out the first games. That's a helluva lot more than SO3 did I  can tell you that.
> 
> I can't get a PSP at the moment but when I do, I really want to check  out the remake of SO1 and 2. While I'm waiting though, maybe I'll try a  translated rom of the original Super Famicom Star Ocean.  I mean, this  is a pretty amazing normal battle theme for the SNES era.


I have tried out the SNES version, and I'd say it's worth checking out.


Is SO4 really so bad as to be compared to....this shit!?

I knew 3 was a clusterfuck ((Although it had things I liked)), but they seriously continued to screw this series up?  I never payed much attention since I'd wanted to try it myself, but now I wonder if I should bother.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 1, 2014)

I enjoyed it and so did a lot of other people. It's nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

You could say that things were a "mixed bag" in FF13 as well. Opinions in all that. I just thought that the terrible elements Star Ocean 4 were worse than the terrible elements of FF13. I didn't think the music was particularly good, and the story was terrible and cliche. In addition to that, hating every character made the game pretty unplayable for me, although i did beat it once


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 2, 2014)

Well if you didn't like it, you didn't like it. Still, I'm disappointed you and others don't appreciate the awesome music.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZFKsybhalE[/youtube]

That is a fantastic final dungeon theme. Orphan's Cradle was ass in comparison to the Palace of Creation.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

desperate struggle is probably one of my favorite battle themes

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBFn5ewqjPc[/youtube]


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 2, 2014)

You know SO4 had several different battle themes for both regular battles, mini-bosses and main bosses. It helped keep things fresh and new ya know?

Regular Battles











Then here are rearrangements of SO1 and 2 battle themes
on Roak - For Achieve 











on EN II - Stab the Sword of Justice











And my personal favorite regular battle theme, beating out anything in FFXIII in my opinion, is Don't Be A Hero. This first plays during the 8 back-to-back Phantom fight. You will never forget it.











Also, trivia, the guy who does the guitar is the same guy from the fabulous and much beloved Guilty Gear soundtracks.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D1uKPrJoME[/youtube]

This is the epic guitar piece that plays when Edge snaps out of his angst and kicks some ass again. Very memorable. It's not all just about the music itself - it's about how well it's utilized.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

When i played, nothing really stuck out at me, but i didn't really like SO3 had a good soundtrack either so


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2014)

I pick Final fantasy 13 because i enjoyed it more than SO4.

SO4 trophy list is also retarded lmao.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

On the PS3, the framerate of SO4 goes to shit in the overworld which made it a pain to play. but i did it anyway cause i could not stand the english voices in the 360 version


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 2, 2014)

I don't remember that ever happening really. Maybe for a second or two but not serious.

The SO4 dub gets shit on too much. You watch anime Inu, you should know there is much worse out there. We got Roy Mustang as Bacchus, Sasha from InFamous as Myuria, Laura Bailey as Reimi and then some others. Oh, Gohan was Arumant/Crowe.
Faize was my favorite.

I will cocnede that XIII had a better dub though.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

it must have been my game only, cause every time i would turn around the game would stop for a split second very severely, and the pop in for the monsters was ridiculous appearing like right up in your face consistently without warning, those two things in combination meant i could literally never avoid fighting which was a pain


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## Keollyn (Jan 2, 2014)

Read some of the post and all I have to say is be grateful these 2 series didn't suffer the Suikoden treatment.

As for the topic. I only played these two games for their combat system (since I knew going in already that they were shit), so I suppose it's SO4.


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## Joakim Mogren (Jan 2, 2014)

Keollyn said:


> Read some of the post and all I have to say is be grateful these 2 series didn't suffer the Suikoden treatment.


Why? Suikoden 5 >>>>>> both of them put together.

I mean Suikoden 4 <<<<<< both of them put together, but that was just an accident.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 2, 2014)

Well holy shit Keo, been a while.

Yeah, SO4 is no Xenogears.


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2014)

Oh god. Suikoden. I miss you so much!


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## Keollyn (Jan 2, 2014)

Joakim Mogren said:


> Why? Suikoden 5 >>>>>> both of them put together.



I'm speaking of nothing but side games after side games that are supposed to divert our attention from a lack of a true sequel.

Aka, Konami gave up on the series. 



> I mean Suikoden 4 <<<<<< both of them put together



Nope.


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## Keollyn (Jan 2, 2014)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Well holy shit Keo, been a while.
> 
> Yeah, SO4 is no Xenogears.



I saw the title, and was expecting you to bash SO3 to high hell. Can't forget how much you hate that thing.


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## Joakim Mogren (Jan 2, 2014)

Keollyn said:


> I'm speaking of nothing but side games after side games that are supposed to divert our attention from a lack of a true sequel.


You mean the exact thing that happened with Final Fantasy?



> Nope.


Yup.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

Well why would we be bringing up xenogears to begin with, this thread is concerning 2 bad games  A good game has no place in the conversation, neither does suikoden series


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## Keollyn (Jan 2, 2014)

Joakim Mogren said:


> You mean the exact thing that happened with Final Fantasy?



Given that the last few games were actual sequels to their predecessors, I'm not sure how that'd be the same.

Unless Suikoden 6 was released while I was sleeping.



> Yup.



I knew you'd agree.


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## Joakim Mogren (Jan 2, 2014)

Keollyn said:


> Given that the last few games were actual sequels to their predecessors, I'm not sure how that'd be the same.


And? That makes no difference what so ever. Cheap sequels, spin-offs, remakes, there was fuckload of them and they are all side games supposed to divert attention from the lack of true new game. They actually made a side game in the "true new game", because couldn't make an actual one.



> I knew you'd agree.


Nope.


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## Jake CENA (Jan 2, 2014)

We need more characters like killey, pesmerga and luca blight.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 2, 2014)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K2MQXcrlBo[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aweFsvzjkLc[/youtube]

Apparently a Let's Play that's gone now had a guy who had a running tally of all of Reimi's ass shots. It went very hot.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

how coincidental that the camera pans over her ass impossibly after every single kill she gets


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 2, 2014)

I can at least play Star Ocean 4 as a game.

I wasn't able to play FFXIII as a game until XIII-2. Which is hilarious since Sarah is more enjoyable than Lightning and her shit.

But we all know Star Ocean 2 reigns as God.


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## Yagami1211 (Jan 2, 2014)

SO4 was painful to even play. couldn't even finish it.


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## RAGE platti (Jan 2, 2014)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> I can at least play Star Ocean 4 as a game.
> 
> I wasn't able to play FFXIII as a game until XIII-2. Which is hilarious since Sarah is more enjoyable than Lightning and her shit.
> 
> But we all know Star Ocean 2 reigns as God.



Why yes, yes it does. All the "flaws" make it even more likeable. I am sad about the abomination of that so called remake tho. And even more sad that they never finished EX, even tho it was mediocre on all levels.. it was sweet thru my fan-goggles


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 2, 2014)

Strange, as i hated FFXIII-2 much more than the original 13 

I don't like when i don't know what's going on, and i atleast understood a majority of what happened in the first game even though it was written terribly. With 13-2, nothing even connected to the first game to begin with to make any sense


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jan 3, 2014)

Which is good since XIII blew chunks.


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## The World (Jan 3, 2014)

wow a japanese game that has ass jiggle over boob jiggle?

star ocean gets my vote


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 3, 2014)

Indeed, The Last Hope really pushed the envelope and I applaud it for its daring. The Japanese just don't have appreciation for butts most of the time but whoever made this game knew what he was doing.


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## Keollyn (Jan 7, 2014)

No wonder Reimi was broken. Power like that can only come from one place after all.


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## Adamant soul (Jan 7, 2014)

SO4's story and characters never interested me at all, the gameplay wass good but it got repetitive pretty damn fast so I never really got far in SO4. FFXIII by contrast captured my attention at the start and maintained it throughout the game, the plot interested me, the characters developed really well and the gameplay never got boring for me. The linearity doesn't bother me at all considering FFX is just as linear as XIII is and I loved FFX. The only things I had a problem with were the equipment upgrading system and how hard it was to get gil, other than that it was a damn good game.

So this is easy, it's good game vs mediocre game therefore FFXIII wins my vote hands down.


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## Naruto (Jan 7, 2014)

I haven't played Star Ocean 4 but 13 is garbage.

The one thing I can say about 13 is that it had pretty damn good visuals.


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## Adamant soul (Jan 7, 2014)

Naruto said:


> I haven't played Star Ocean 4 but 13 is garbage.
> 
> The one thing I can say about 13 is that it had pretty damn good visuals.



Which i funny because visuals were pretty much the only thing I thought SO4 excelled in.
Too bad I don't give a damn about graphics or any of that nonsense.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2014)

Adamant soul said:


> SO4's story and characters never interested me at all, the gameplay wass good but it got repetitive pretty damn fast so I never really got far in SO4. FFXIII by contrast captured my attention at the start and maintained it throughout the game, the plot interested me, the characters developed really well and the gameplay never got boring for me.* The linearity doesn't bother me at all considering FFX is just as linear as XIII is and I loved FFX.* The only things I had a problem with were the equipment upgrading system and how hard it was to get gil, other than that it was a damn good game.
> 
> So this is easy, it's good game vs mediocre game therefore FFXIII wins my vote hands down.



Every time someone compares X to XIII and says "they're the same!" i wanna punch a kitten repeatedly in the face


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## Adamant soul (Jan 7, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Every time someone compares X to XIII and says "they're the same!" i wanna punch a kitten repeatedly in the face



You go ahead then, I feel sorry for the kitten but aside from Blitzball and some painfully annoying side quests I don't see what the difference is. In both you go down a straight line, max out your characters, get the ultimate weapons and fight optional bosses that's it. Blitzball as well as better characters and story is what makes X the better game (XIII has the better batttle system though).

So apart from Blitzball, how exactly is X any less linear than XIII?


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## LivingHitokiri (Jan 7, 2014)

The problem is not if FFX is linear or not , the thing is as a whole FFX game is vastly superior  to ff13 and that comes from a person who considers FFX mediocre.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2014)

They are hardly the same. Although there are skin deep similarities such as the type of upgrade system and the way you traverse the overworld, that's where the similarities end.

For example, the sphere grid actually let you decide how you wanted to progress your character, because it was a web that went out in every direction which you could use to go back and forth however you pleased. With 13's upgrade system, your simply going in the same inevitable direction the game says you can go. They might as well have simply went back to prehistoric times and let the CPU upgrade your stats automatically instead of giving you a menu to manually do it.

The same goes for the map. You may think your going along a linear path in both games. But X allows you go back and forth between areas at all times except when there are plot related reasons, and also the overworld eventually lets you go to any single area in the game via the airship . There are minigames on the way, hidden bosses and areas you can get to(i must have spent years in the omega ruins simply maxing out my charas), extra summons you can acquire, breaking limit caps, you can get special weapons, even customize your normal weapons however you wanted with different types of buffs. You could go to different shops in different areas and get different items by hunting different enemies.

The amount of things you can do in X and the freedom it gives you is on a completely different dimension from XIII. Which linearly gives you a linear upgrade path(even upgrading weapons is just dumping whatever no name trash you can find into them until the stats go up), there are virtually no deviations to the tunnel hallway the whole game besides in the grand pulse valley, and even then its just the illusion of freedom, cause its still a single area. And what mini games do you have? Well..find monster that is just a slightly different colored variation of another monster but with higher stats. Yay? And its even worse because they CAP YOUR FUCKING LEVEL ACCORDING TO PLOT PROGRESSION. You literally have no reason to fuck about and have fun upgrading the way you want because you cant do it.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Its all relative. Compared to SO4, i thought SO3 was a good game. I liked Nel as a character(always the Nel ending), Abel was cool. And Fayt wasn't really that annoying based on how i played. I ignored Sophia as much as possible and i went full Chaos mode once i got good enough at the battle system, which was fun. The only thing i didn't like about SO3 was how you could easily get lost
> 
> This is in comparison to SO4 and the adventures of "Edge Maverick".



It's true SO3 is much better listen to this man. Voice acting is better as well.
Battle system is better. Story is better. Characters are better. Practically looks better despite how old it is.
I only got lost in the maze like huge pure puzzle dungeons in SO3.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2014)

See? People know how i be


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 7, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> See? People know how i be



Game actually has proper aftergame content unlike SO4.
Also battle trophies and vs mode in it
The only thing that was missing from SO3 was a newgame+


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 7, 2014)

basically correct...


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 8, 2014)

Claiming SO3 has better voice-acting

Counterpoint
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv2hDN1PG6s[/youtube]

That is objectively bad. It's just noa arguable. This is the climax and yet our main villain can't emote to save his life.  FATE LINEGOD had the same problem.

Also LET'S ALL STAND STILL AND STARE AS HE DELETES OUR UNIVERSE


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## LivingHitokiri (Jan 9, 2014)

Well i agree SO3 had poor voiceacitng but i find SO4 terrible, i think most of people like SO3 due to its gameplay?

As for ff13 vs SO4, its hard to choose, i have finished them both, gameplay wise SO4 is better than ff13 but ff13 god an edge on the visuals i like SO4 music more but thats because i like Sakuraba more,the story is mediocre at best for both games.
I would vote a draw between the game, maybe id give ff13 little edge for being more polished.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2014)

LivingHitokiri said:


> Well i agree SO3 had poor voiceacitng but i find SO4 terrible, i think most of people like SO3 due to its gameplay?



It's not terrible like he's claiming that's for sure, SO4, I don't even know how I made it through that.
Everytime a battle starts I like hearing "Now this looks like a real fight."


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## Joakim Mogren (Jan 9, 2014)

LivingHitokiri said:


> Well i agree SO3 had poor voiceacitng but i find SO4 terrible, i think most of people like SO3 due to its gameplay?


You can turn the voices off though in SO3.

Any game with that function gains 1 point automatically.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 9, 2014)

Joakim Mogren said:


> You can turn the voices off though in SO3.
> 
> Any game with that function gains 1 point automatically.



There were more features in SO3 that's for sure.


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## Griever (Jan 9, 2014)

I'd go with Star ocean 4. I didn't like 13..... I really didn't, i wasn't even able to play it all the way through. SO4 on the other hand had pretty entertaining gameplay but yeah i played the game on mute 



Inuhanyou said:


> Its all relative. Compared to SO4, i thought SO3 was a good game.* I liked Nel as a character(always the Nel ending),* Abel was cool. And Fayt wasn't really that annoying based on how i played. I ignored Sophia as much as possible and i went full Chaos mode once i got good enough at the battle system, which was fun. The only thing i didn't like about SO3 was how you could easily get lost
> 
> This is in comparison to SO4 and the adventures of "Edge Maverick".



Nel Fanboys


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## Bluth (Jan 10, 2014)

I'd probably go with XIII, I mean I didn't love XIII but I at least finished it.  SO4 had a fun battle system, I really did enjoy jumping around, the cat girl was a blast to play with since you could basically dominate with that character since she was so freakin' fast you could just basically jump from one side of the map to the other dishing out huge damage usually.  

The problem was that pretty much everything else was either poor or abysmal.  None of the characters seemed likeable at all except for maybe the cyborg guy, some characters you simply had to mute they were so bad, namely the Lym, and the holographic chick that made stuff for you.  

I will say that it did have the awesome name of Edge Maverick, I'll never forget that. So it is unforgettable in a way.


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## LivingHitokiri (Jan 10, 2014)

Everytime i heard Lym said "kay" i wanted to punch someone big time. Seriously, she equally on par with Teen Hope from Final Fantasy 13 and that says a lot.


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## Kaitou (Jan 10, 2014)

I liked Final Fantasy XIII, a lot...but not really the best FF out there. FFXIII-2 was an improvement though. Lightning Returns was plaaaaaain bad though. No questions. 

As for SO4, that was plain garbage. So yeah, FFXIII.

Not to mention, I love the entire soundtrack too. It kept my going.



LivingHitokiri said:


> Everytime i heard Lym said "kay" i wanted to punch someone big time. Seriously, she equally on par with Teen Hope from Final Fantasy 13 and that says a lot.



That's what you get for playing it in English.

Those two games had a mediocre English dub.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 11, 2014)

Except she still had a catch phrase in the Japanese version too.  If you don't like loli fanservice, you aren't going to enjoy Lym in any language.


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## Kaitou (Jan 11, 2014)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Except she still had a catch phrase in the Japanese version too.  If you don't like loli fanservice, you aren't going to enjoy Lym in any language.



Yeah.

But the English dub of SO4 was plain bad, so it makes it a lot less bearable.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jan 11, 2014)

NoMaybe you should go rewatch some truly bad dubs, like the stuff from the old Godzilla movies or Speed Racer.

Most of teh cast of SO4 were seasoned pros. 

Oh and Baten Kaitos 1. Go play that if you want a really awful dub.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 11, 2014)

Most the voice actors must have been paid below minimum wage


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## Joakim Mogren (Jan 11, 2014)

SO4 dub is unwatchable. Thankfully they knew that and made original voice work available, but that is not enough to save that shit of a game.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Mar 9, 2014)

This poll makes me sad now.

I guess it's nice that it's kinda close...


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