# Spoilers SM Naruto vs Tsunade and Sakura



## joshhookway (May 29, 2013)

Location: Pein vs naruto
DIstance: 20 m
Knowledge: Manga
SOM: IC


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## Unknown (May 29, 2013)

Tsunade solos.


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## CoockiesAndMilf (May 29, 2013)

Unknown said:


> Tsunade solos.



*No.* ‎‏‎‏‎‏‎‏‎‏‎‏‎‏‎‏


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## Panther (May 29, 2013)

SM Naruto rapes.

SM Naruto should have no problem in dodging Tsunade and Sakura in CQC since he's not only faster then them but has also SM danger sensing which would help him dodge attacks at the last possible moment and counterstrike with a frog kata which would snap Sakura's neck and kill her, I can see Tsunade surviving from SM Naruto's neck breaking frog kata's because of Buyakugou, altough once Naruto sees that his frog kata's aren't having any effect on Buyakugou Tsunade, hes most likely gonna ressort to using ninjutsu, and here is were i see FRS coming into play since Tsunade neither has the speed to dodge it but also because she admitted of not being able to heal the dmg that was caused by the 50% FRS that base Naruto used on Kakuzu, so there is no chance that she will heal that of a much stronger FRS which is powered by natural energy.


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## Trojan (May 29, 2013)

Does (or "is"? lol) Naruto start the fight with  SM or not?


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## Alex Payne (May 29, 2013)

Tsunade eats FRS after putting a fight. Sakura gets blitzed and Frog Kata'd. Sakura is still a non-factor in those kind of fights.


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## Unknown (May 29, 2013)

When SM Naruto is able to handle not a single full body Susanoo Madara, but 5, this may turn into a fight.


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## Bonly (May 29, 2013)

So basically SM Naruto vs Tsunade. SM Naruto has the tools to beat Tsunade, whether or not he'll use said tools is another thing.


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## Mithos (May 29, 2013)

As long as Tsunade avoids a direct him by FRS, SM Naruto cannot kill her. 

Naruto also cannot stay in SM for a long period of time at once. But Tsunade can fight with Byakugou active for hours. She should be able to stay alive long enough to outlast his SM - at which point she can defeat him for sure. 

We don't know the extent of Sakura's new power so I didn't include her in the analysis. But if we assume Sakura is strong enough to keep up with Naruto and Sasuke now as the manga is implying, then Naruto gets destroyed against both of them. 

Tsunade probably solos. Tsunade and Sakura win for sure.


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

Tsunade alone is a real fight for _Sennin Modo_ Naruto, simply because of how hard it will be to kill her. 

The _Futon: Rasenshuriken_ that hit Kakuzu _might _stop Tsunade, but if he uses the one that sliced Human Realm in half she'll come back together.

I agree with Matto-sama that we still don't know the full extent of Sakura's power, but now her strength is on par with if not somewhat greater than Tsunade's thanks to Hashirama's statement. 

Logically she'd have been taught how to use the _Kuchiyose no Jutsu_ in addition to that.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 But if Hashi knew about it, does that mean toddler Tsunade was Susano'o busting strong? 




I'd assume the superpowered regenerators would take it.


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## Pirao (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade alone is a real fight for _Sennin Modo_ Naruto, simply because of how hard it will be to kill her.
> 
> *The Futon: Rasenshuriken that hit Kakuzu might stop Tsunade, but if he uses the one that sliced Human Realm in half she'll come back together.*
> 
> ...



What kind of lolgic is that?


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

Pirao said:


> What kind of lolgic is that?



Because one explodes, the other just slices and explodes after hitting the ground behind what it slices.

We've seen Tsunade survive being sliced in half, but not engulfed in a sphere of cell destroying chakra.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 29, 2013)

Naruto obliterates them. His summons quite happily deal with Katsuyu, while Naruto deals with the others.


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## CoockiesAndMilf (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Because one explodes, the other just slices and explodes after hitting the ground behind what it slices.
> 
> We've seen Tsunade survive being sliced in half, but not engulfed in a sphere of cell destroying chakra.



*twice
*


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## Mithos (May 29, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Naruto obliterates them. His summons quite happily deal with Katsuyu, while Naruto deals with the others.



But both Sakura and Tsunade can one-shot his summons...


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## Krippy (May 29, 2013)

The hell is this shit?

Naruto solos. Blitzes Sakura, distracts tsunade with some clones and hits her in the face with FRS


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

CoockiesAndMilf said:


> *twice
> *





Is he not slamming that one into Kurama himself, the same as when he slammed it into Kakuzu?

I was saying that the thrown version seems to just slice through its target and keep flying, only exploding upon the core Rasengan colliding with something.


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## narut0ninjafan (May 29, 2013)

Tsunade solos unfortunately. 

Byakugou which lasts for hours and could potentially regenerate from FRS (and if she couldn't she would simply dodge) vs SM which lasts for a few minutes? I'm going to have to go with Tsunade. She has the speed to dodge fast attacks (blocking the Katons isn't a dodging feat per say, but the other Kages couldn't even move before she did it, so I'm confident she could equally just dodge instead of block, so I don't see FRS hitting her). 

And just saying, either Tsunade or Sakura could solo his summons, and Katsuyu isn't being taken down by them either. They can't damage her at all and will have to dodge her acid blasts, so I would argue in a summons vs summons fight, Katsuyu comes out on top.


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## ueharakk (May 29, 2013)

unless Tsunade or Sakura are faster than Sandaime Raikage, they're probably going to eat a SM FRS, SM COR, or SM OR attacks that would kill Sakura (since she hasn't shown byakugo) and kill tsunade or massively drain her stamina.

Although Sakura's punch has a shockwave that can potentially pop sage clones that are within it.

I don't understand where the notion that tsunade can regenerate from FRS damage comes from.  She specifically said in the manga that her medical ninjutsu can't heal the type of damage that FRS does.  Even the logic behind how FRS would make her incapable of regenerating since if her chakra network in that area is damaged, then she can't even mold chakra in that area, so how would she even be able to mold chakra to regenerate if her entire body's chakra network is destroyed?  Finally, FRS disintegrates even the most durable path of pain, Tsunade can't regenerate from nothing.


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## Mithos (May 29, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> unless Tsunade or Sakura are faster than Sandaime Raikage, they're probably going to eat a SM FRS, SM COR, or SM OR attacks that would kill Sakura (since she hasn't shown byakugo) and kill tsunade or massively drain her stamina.
> 
> Although Sakura's punch has a shockwave that can potentially pop sage clones that are within it.
> 
> I don't understand where the notion that tsunade can regenerate from FRS damage comes from.  She specifically said in the manga that her medical ninjutsu can't heal the type of damage that FRS does.  Even the logic behind how FRS would make her incapable of regenerating since if her chakra network in that area is damaged, then she can't even mold chakra in that area, so how would she even be able to mold chakra to regenerate if her entire body's chakra network is destroyed?  Finally, FRS disintegrates even the most durable path of pain, Tsunade can't regenerate from nothing.



I'm not sure if she could regenerate from FRS or not, but the argument that she could makes at least some sense. 

She said her medical ninjutsu can't repair it because it destroys the cells. However, Souzou Saisei and Byakugou are not like normal medical ninjutsu that just repairs tissues. Her regeneration is on the cellular level. If her regeneration heals herself on the cellular level then she may be able to survive it. 

My opinion is that if she takes a direct hit, there will be too much damage and she will die. But if she manages to avoid most of the damage and only get hit partially, like lose part of her body, then I think she could regenerate.


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## Rosencrantz (May 29, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> As long as Tsunade avoids a direct him by FRS, SM Naruto cannot kill her.
> 
> Naruto also cannot stay in SM for a long period of time at once. But Tsunade can fight with Byakugou active for hours. She should be able to stay alive long enough to outlast his SM - at which point she can defeat him for sure.
> 
> ...


Easier said than done.

Fuuton: Rasenshuriken is all it takes. MAYBE. I'll be the first to acknowledge she may be able to survive it.  Byakugou for hours? Idk about that. Hard to get a grasp of time though in manga without being told. But when Naruto goes to Base, you make it sound like the match is over. Naruto can compete in base with Tsunade just fine. Can dodge her blows. Kage Bunshin feints can help on the defensive end and offensive end to create openings.. Summon Bunta to fight Katsuya. However she has the experience and intelligence to handle Naruto's tactics, incredible strength for crowd control if spam occurs (doubtful), taijutsu skill/speed/strength to handle Kage Bunshin trickery/Naruto's taijutsu, and with byakugou and genesis rebirth Rasengan, Cho Oodama Rasengan, and Fuuton: Rasengan would do nothing more than blast her away. Sounds like a good fight with Naruto in base. 

I find Tsunade to be unique when dealing with SM Naruto. She is one of the only characters in the manga (only one I can think of now) that could really deal with Base Naruto with the same difficulty as SM Naruto. Some may think I am crazy but basically here is why. ALL of Naruto's enhancements in SM, Tsuande has answers for. Increased strength, speed, and reflexes for instance. Tsunade can deal with his strength because of her strength. His speed does not become so crazy that she can't still react (most overrated stat btw). While his reflexes are sharingan like now, plenty of non sharingan users have competed with sharingan users in CQC and she is no exception. Naruto also likes to use less Kage Bunshins in SM which helps Tsunade. Also Byakugou. It is just as effective now as it was when he was in base. It still prevents anything from harming her except maybe FRS. If FRS will put her down though, I am confident that he will land one.



Matto-sama said:


> But both Sakura and Tsunade can one-shot his summons...


Based on what? Sakura killing a centipede? And I have much more faith in Bunta killing Sakura. Cause he DEFINITELY can one shot Sakura.


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## The Prodigy (May 29, 2013)

The newest chap changed nothing really. Naruto still easily outclasses Sakura with Sage mode alone. Tsunade can't handle rasenshuriken, she ain't 3rd Raikage and Sakura's durability feats aren't anything special. At least if Kabuto's ass has anything to say about it


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## Rocky (May 29, 2013)

Sakura can punch hard, but for all we know the rest of her physical attributes are still shit compared to those of a Sage. He dodges her and breaks her neck with a ghost punch. If she comes from the air, he intercepts with one of his billion Rasengan variants. It isn't going to be pretty if Sakura punches in to a Senpou: Chao Odama Rasengan. 

Tsunade isn't dodging FRS if Naruto wants to hit her with it.  He could easily smoke bomb feint it like he did a thousand times against Pain. Shadow FRS -> Jump -> Real FRS while suspended defenselessly in the air. 

Tsunade isn't going to hit him when he dodges guys like the Raikage point blank. Even though Naruto's blows cannot kill her, they sure would knck her down and provide openings for FRS.

As for FRS killing her, well it's supposed to destroy cells beyond repair. If you think Tsunade's Byakugo is special for some reason and would repair her cells anyway, then I don't know what to tell you.


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## ueharakk (May 29, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> I'm not sure if she could regenerate from FRS or not, but the argument that she could makes at least some sense.
> 
> *She said her medical ninjutsu can't repair it because it destroys the cells.* However, Souzou Saisei and Byakugou are not like normal medical ninjutsu that just repairs tissues. Her regeneration is on the cellular level. If her regeneration heals herself on the cellular level then she may be able to survive it.


no, she doesn't say her medical ninjutsu can't repair it because it destroys the cells. 

 She says it can't repair the damage because FRS destroys the cellular chakra network which is something that not even her medical ninjutsu can repair.  Thus the cells that the network is attached to would not be able to get any chakra and the person wouldn't be able to mold chakra wherever their chakra network is severed.


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> unless Tsunade or Sakura are faster than Sandaime Raikage, they're probably going to eat a SM FRS, SM COR, or SM OR attacks that would kill Sakura (since she hasn't shown byakugo) and kill tsunade or massively drain her stamina.



What?

SM Naruto only counter-attacked Sandaime, it isn't like he ran him down and smacked him with Rasengan.

Neither Tsunade nor Sakura are going to run at Naruto when he has FRS or COR readied.

her medical ninjutsu can't heal the type of damage that FRS does. Is Shizune not saying Sakura has that technique right here?



> Although Sakura's punch has a shockwave that can potentially pop sage clones that are within it.



Tsunade's should produce a comparable shockwave, given that Hashirama said Sakura's punch _might_ be worse than Tsunade's- meaning that _if there is_ any difference, it isn't a very noticeable one.

That and idk how Hashirama would have known how hard Tsunade could hit as an adult since he died when she was little.

Unless toddler Tsunade was also hitting hard enough to crack Susano'os.



> I don't understand where the notion that tsunade can regenerate from FRS damage comes from.  She specifically said in the manga that her medical ninjutsu can't heal the type of damage that FRS does.  Even the logic behind how FRS would make her incapable of regenerating since if her chakra network in that area is damaged, then she can't even mold chakra in that area, so how would she even be able to mold chakra to regenerate if her entire body's chakra network is destroyed?  Finally, FRS disintegrates even the most durable path of pain, Tsunade can't regenerate from nothing.



It's really confusing.

It comes from the fact that Tsunade outright makes a distinction between her regeneration and her other medical ninjutsu. She cannot regenerate others like she can herself, and the context of that statement was repairing Naruto's arm.

her medical ninjutsu can't heal the type of damage that FRS does.

The chakra network of a normal person is connected to their heart, as seen with Kabuto. The chakra Tsunade uses to regenerate comes from a seal _separate_ from her standard chakra network.

So the chakra being used to heal isn't dependent on whether the chakra in those cells is functioning properly because the chakra isn't coming from those cells, it's coming from her seal, meaning the chakra is being released _over_ the cells _from_ her that seal- thus allowing her to repair the damage done to the cells from FRS.

If all of her chakra isn't cut off, which it won't be because a lot of it is locked away in a separate space from her natural system, then she should be able to eventually repair it. Reason being that Naruto's severed chakra tubes apparently naturally recovered despite the jutsu affecting his arm.

Ripping Tsunade in half would have also severed her chakra tubes because. . .they're on opposite sides of the tree, yet apparently they can be reattached as long as chakra is coming from somewhere (which it wouldn't have been in Kakuzu cuz he has no extra source of chakra, meaning the chakra in his cells remained stuck in the cells they were already in)

I don't remember SM FRS disintegrating any paths of Pein. I remember shredding one up, but not disintegrating him.


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## Rocky (May 29, 2013)

FRS has been noted to be a special type of technique. The technique's primary goal is to target cells, and slice them beyond repair...primarily by targeting the very thing that would allow them to be repaired in the first place.

Byakugo is regeneration, which is just advanced, passive healing. If the cells *cannot be healed*, why on _earth_ would Byakugo heal them?


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## CoockiesAndMilf (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Is he not slamming that one into Kurama himself, the same as when he slammed it into Kakuzu?
> 
> I was saying that the thrown version seems to just slice through its target and keep flying, only exploding upon the core Rasengan colliding with something.



*He first threw it, then it exploded and it seems like he pushed the explosion against Kurama somehow after it detonated, anyway he was too far from Kurama to be able to actually slam it into him.*


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

CoockiesAndMilf said:


> *He first threw it, then it exploded and it seems like he pushed the explosion against Kurama somehow after it detonated, anyway he was too far from Kurama to be able to actually slam it into him.*



@.@, eh. I'm confused, so I'll conceed.


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## joshhookway (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> The _Futon: Rasenshuriken_ that hit Kakuzu _might _stop Tsunade, but if he uses the one that sliced *Human Realm *in half she'll come back together.



LOL

Do you mean this by human path getting cut in half?


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## ueharakk (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> What?
> 
> SM Naruto only counter-attacked Sandaime, it isn't like he ran him down and smacked him with Rasengan.
> 
> Neither Tsunade nor Sakura are going to run at Naruto when he has FRS or COR readied.


Then they are going to have to play on the complete defensive, and in that case they still get those techniques rammed into them since Naruto has superior speed and has clones with superior raw physical strength feats.



FlamingRain said:


> far Is Shizune not saying Sakura has that technique right here?


byakugo?  Nope.




FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade's should produce a comparable shockwave, given that Hashirama said Sakura's punch _might_ be worse than Tsunade's- meaning that _if there is_ any difference, it isn't a very noticeable one.
> 
> That and idk how Hashirama would have known how hard Tsunade could hit as an adult since he died when she was little.
> 
> Unless toddler Tsunade was also hitting hard enough to crack Susano'os.


I'm pretty sure that Kishi intended Hashirama to be talking about Tsunade at least at the same age as Sakura.

And yes, your case makes sense that Tsunade would be able to produce a similar shockwave.



FlamingRain said:


> It's really confusing.
> 
> It comes from the fact that Tsunade outright makes a distinction between her regeneration and her other medical ninjutsu. She cannot regenerate others like she can herself, and the context of that statement was repairing Naruto's arm.


Does she make a distinction between her regenration and her other medical ninjutsu other than the fact that she's regenerating herself rather than others?



FlamingRain said:


> far
> 
> The chakra network of a normal person is connected to their heart, as seen with Kabuto. The chakra Tsunade uses to regenerate comes from a seal _separate_ from her standard chakra network.


no.... the seal may not originate from her own source chakra, but the chakra from the seal has to travel through her own chakra network...



FlamingRain said:


> So the chakra being used to heal isn't dependent on whether the chakra in those cells is functioning properly because the chakra isn't coming from those cells, it's coming from her seal, meaning the chakra is being released _over_ the cells _from_ her that seal- thus allowing her to repair the damage done to the cells from FRS.


that wouldn't make sense as the seal doesn't cover all parts of her body, so it must be travelling through her chakra network which is logically how it would be able to target every individual cell in the body.  And if it was external healing, then she would be able to regenerate FRS damage to naruto since all she'd have to do is apply that same healing to Naruto's arm.

And even if she could regenerate the cells, it does not mean that she can regenerate the chakra network that connects the cells.  



FlamingRain said:


> If all of her chakra isn't cut off, which it won't be because a lot of it is locked away in a separate space from her natural system, then she should be able to eventually repair it. Reason being that *Naruto's severed chakra tubes apparently naturally recovered despite the jutsu affecting his arm.*


bolded is false since tsunade said if he continues to use it, he won't be able to mold chakra which means it does not naturally recover.  So unlike the cells of his body that naturally replace themselves over time, his chakra network would not do that.



FlamingRain said:


> Ripping Tsunade in half would have also severed her chakra tubes because. . .they're on opposite sides of the tree, yet apparently they can be reattached as long as chakra is coming from somewhere (which it wouldn't have been in Kakuzu cuz he has no extra source of chakra).


by this logic, all tsunade would have to do to repair naruto's chakra network is slice off a thin layer of his hand and then use medical ninjutsu to accelerate his healing (which would be the body producing new cells) and then walla, his chakra network would be restored along with the new cells.



FlamingRain said:


> I don't remember SM FRS disintegrating any paths of Pein. I remember shredding one up, but not disintegrating him.


this looks like disintegration to me.


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## Bonly (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> What?
> 
> SM Naruto only counter-attacked Sandaime, it isn't like he ran him down and smacked him with Rasengan.
> 
> Neither Tsunade nor Sakura are going to run at Naruto when he has FRS or COR readied.



Then they are going to have to play on the complete defensive, and in that case they still get those techniques rammed into them since Naruto has superior speed and has clones with superior raw physical strength feats.




> this looks like disintegration to me. Is Shizune not saying Sakura has that technique right here?



byakugo? Nope.




> Tsunade's should produce a comparable shockwave, given that Hashirama said Sakura's punch _might_ be worse than Tsunade's- meaning that _if there is_ any difference, it isn't a very noticeable one.
> 
> That and idk how Hashirama would have known how hard Tsunade could hit as an adult since he died when she was little.
> 
> Unless toddler Tsunade was also hitting hard enough to crack Susano'os.



I'm pretty sure that Kishi intended Hashirama to be talking about Tsunade at least at the same age as Sakura.

And yes, your case makes sense that Tsunade would be able to produce a similar shockwave.



> It's really confusing.
> 
> It comes from the fact that Tsunade outright makes a distinction between her regeneration and her other medical ninjutsu. She cannot regenerate others like she can herself, and the context of that statement was repairing Naruto's arm.



Does she make a distinction between her regenration and her other medical ninjutsu other than the fact that she's regenerating herself rather than others?



> this looks like disintegration to me.
> 
> The chakra network of a normal person is connected to their heart, as seen with Kabuto. The chakra Tsunade uses to regenerate comes from a seal _separate_ from her standard chakra network.



no.... the seal may not originate from her own source chakra, but the chakra from the seal has to travel through her own chakra network...



> So the chakra being used to heal isn't dependent on whether the chakra in those cells is functioning properly because the chakra isn't coming from those cells, it's coming from her seal, meaning the chakra is being released _over_ the cells _from_ her that seal- thus allowing her to repair the damage done to the cells from FRS.



that wouldn't make sense as the seal doesn't cover all parts of her body, so it must be travelling through her chakra network which is logically how it would be able to target every individual cell in the body. And if it was external healing, then she would be able to regenerate FRS damage to naruto since all she'd have to do is apply that same healing to Naruto's arm.

And even if she could regenerate the cells, it does not mean that she can regenerate the chakra network that connects the cells. 



> If all of her chakra isn't cut off, which it won't be because a lot of it is locked away in a separate space from her natural system, then she should be able to eventually repair it. Reason being that *Naruto's severed chakra tubes apparently naturally recovered despite the jutsu affecting his arm.*



bolded is false since tsunade said if he continues to use it, he won't be able to mold chakra which means it does not naturally recover. So unlike the cells of his body that naturally replace themselves over time, his chakra network would not do that.



> Ripping Tsunade in half would have also severed her chakra tubes because. . .they're on opposite sides of the tree, yet apparently they can be reattached as long as chakra is coming from somewhere (which it wouldn't have been in Kakuzu cuz he has no extra source of chakra, meaning the chakra in his cells remained stuck in the cells they were already in)



by this logic, all tsunade would have to do to repair naruto's chakra network is slice off a thin layer of his hand and then use medical ninjutsu to accelerate his healing (which would be the body producing new cells) and then walla, his chakra network would be restored along with the new cells.




> I don't remember SM FRS disintegrating any paths of Pein. I remember shredding one up, but not disintegrating him.



this looks like disintegration to me.


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## CoockiesAndMilf (May 29, 2013)

^^ ‎‏‎‏‎‏


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## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

@ Bonly



ueharakk said:


> Then they are going to have to play on the complete defensive, and in that case they still get those techniques rammed into them since Naruto has superior speed and has clones with superior raw physical strength feats.



Naruto's clones haven't shown anything that even compares to their punch.

The rhino thing is. . .



> byakugo?  Nope.



Hyakugo ~ Byakugo. It's just a translation error. Hyaku and Byaku have similar meanings anyway, so it's at least somewhat understandable.

A lot of translations called it Hyakugo when Tsunade first revealed her seal.



> I'm pretty sure that Kishi intended Hashirama to be talking about Tsunade at least at the same age as Sakura.



Well either that, or Tsunade's strength has remained static over her years.  Which would be really weird, but so are a lot of things 



> Does she make a distinction between her regenration and her other medical ninjutsu other than the fact that she's regenerating herself rather than others?



"it's not just a simple healing, it's regeneration" doesn't put any emphasis on it being herself rather than others. It just emphasises that regeneration is different than the healing that Orochimaru would have known about.



> no.... the seal may not originate from her own source chakra, but the chakra from the seal has to travel through her own chakra network...



Not sure why it would have to. It's a seal, once it opens up it's pretty much free to go anywhere.

Think of how we can actually see the chakra certain techniques manifest, like Choji's butterfly fist-it's outside of his chakra tubes at that point. Which tells us that chakra does not have to stay within those tubes otherwise it could never be released. The seal is already separate, once it's opened it could just run along the outside of said tubes for all we know, because it's already outside.



> that wouldn't make sense as the seal doesn't cover all parts of her body, so it must be travelling through her chakra network which is logically how it would be able to target every individual cell in the body.  And if it was external healing, then she would be able to regenerate FRS damage to naruto since all she'd have to do is apply that same healing to Naruto's arm.



Not really, your cells are all extremely close. It'd be like pouring water over a bumpy surface.

Yet Naruto's arm did heal somehow.  But if Sozo Saisei/Byakugo are external healing it doesn't mean that any jutsu she could use on Naruto would also fall into the external healing category, because we know those would be inferior jutsu.



> bolded is false since tsunade said if he continues to use it, he won't be able to mold chakra which means it does not naturally recover.  So unlike the cells of his body that naturally replace themselves over time, his chakra network would not do that.



It seems like she said that because the severity of the jutsu would eventually collapse all of his chakra tubes, as opposed to some remaining intact like what was the case- thus allowing said tubes to get chakra from somewhere else to somehow eventually repair.

Otherwise some sort of permanent inhibition on molding chakra would have been present in Naruto's right arm. As in, if the tubes were damaged and couldn't be repaired, even if Naruto had enough working tubes to still mold chakra he wouldn't do so with the effectiveness he had before.



> by this logic, all tsunade would have to do to repair naruto's chakra network is slice off a thin layer of his hand and then use medical ninjutsu to accelerate his healing (which would be the body producing new cells) and then walla, his chakra network would be restored along with the new cells.



But this is Tsunade healing herself again, not Tsunade trying to heal Naruto with no connected tubes.



> this looks like disintegration to me.



Oh~. Yeah it does.


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## ueharakk (May 29, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Naruto's clones haven't shown anything that even compares to their punch.
> 
> The rhino thing is. . .


I'm talking about raw strength as in grappling and throwing, their punches are augumented by their superb chakra control and ability to build up a lots of chakra into their fist and release it at the exact moment of contact.

They'd have to rely on their natural super strength for non-impact type of strength feats.



FlamingRain said:


> Hyakugo ~ Byakugo. It's just a translation error. Hyaku and Byaku have similar meanings anyway, so it's at least somewhat understandable.
> 
> A lot of translations called it Hyakugo when Tsunade first revealed her seal.


well, if you say so, for this thread, grant her byakugo.  IMO I would like her to actually use the jutsu (or at least get a translation with Byakugo) before I would be compelled to think she has it.




FlamingRain said:


> Well either that, or Tsunade's strength has remained static over her years.  Which would be really weird, but so are a lot of things


agreed




FlamingRain said:


> "it's not just a simple healing, it's regeneration" doesn't put any emphasis on it being herself rather than others. It just emphasises that regeneration is different than the healing that Orochimaru would have known about.


at the same time though, if you read how mystic palm heals a person:   And how does the body naturally heal itself?  Via regeneration, making new cells that replace the old ones same as tsunade's jutsu.




FlamingRain said:


> Not sure why it would have to. It's a seal, once it opens up it's pretty much free to go anywhere.
> 
> Think of how we can actually see the chakra certain techniques manifest, like Choji's butterfly fist-it's outside of his chakra tubes at that point. Which tells us that chakra does not have to stay within those tubes otherwise it could never be released. The seal is already separate, once it's opened it could just run along the outside of said tubes for all we know, because it's already outside.


if that's the case, we would see the chakra manifesting itself around tsunade or some kind of healing aura manifesting itself around her.  And how does chouji's chakra get outside of his body?



FlamingRain said:


> Not really, your cells are all extremely close. It'd be like pouring water over a bumpy surface.


but they are layered, yet her healing extends to even her internal organs where her seal does not reach.



FlamingRain said:


> Yet Naruto's arm did heal somehow.  But if Sozo Saisei/Byakugo are external healing it doesn't mean that any jutsu she could use on Naruto would also fall into the external healing category, because we know those would be inferior jutsu.


No, naruto's arm did heal, not the chakra network damage.  The chakra network damage wasn't severe which is why he can still mold chakra, but if he continued to use FRS in base, he would eventually have damaged his network so much he wouldn't be able to do so.





FlamingRain said:


> It seems like she said that because the severity of the jutsu would eventually collapse all of his chakra tubes, as opposed to some remaining intact like what was the case- thus allowing said tubes to get chakra from somewhere else to somehow eventually repair.


no... I'm pretty sure she was only talking about the chakra tubules in his arm since it was only his arm that sustained hat kind of damage from the technique, and its with his hands that he molds chakra in order to use his techniques.



FlamingRain said:


> Otherwise some sort of permanent inhibition on molding chakra would have been present in Naruto's right arm. As in, if the tubes were damaged and couldn't be repaired, even if Naruto had enough working tubes to still mold chakra he wouldn't do so with the effectiveness he had before.


it's implied that since he stopped using the jutsu in base, the damage is not noticeable or insignificant at this stage.  It was only brought up so to make it known that FRS's damage can't be repaired and that Naruto can't use it anymore.




FlamingRain said:


> But this is Tsunade healing herself again, not Tsunade trying to heal Naruto with no connected tubes.


but the way that her own technique and the technique that she'd use to heal naruto's own tubules do so are basically the same: they speed up the bodies natural healing process.

Think about this.  With just KN0, Naruto healed from getting a hole punched in his chest almost instantly.  That's healing via the exact same mechanism that tsunade heals by, yet despite that, she still thinks that if he continues to use FRS, his chakra network will be messed up.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 29, 2013)

I'm just going to bow out here, since I'm a little lightheaded from training right now so I don't want to try thinking too hard .

Personally I'm not very confident Tsunade could continue fighting effectively after FRS anyway even if she did survive (which I do hold a bit more confidence in), so I won't bother. I was just exploring "where the notion of her surviviving it" came from.


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## narut0ninjafan (May 29, 2013)

I think the essence of the idea of why Tsunade might be able to potentially (not definitely) heal FRS is that Byakugou is regeneration, not healing (she even says so herself) and she can heal herself from stuff she couldn't heal if someone else had the same injury (like for example, normally you're not healing spine tissue but she grew new spine tissue). So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Byakugou could heal her since she can create new cells to replace the ones which have damaged chakra tubes. It's a bit hard to judge for sure since Kishi isn't so consistent with biology in the manga (eg. he calls Byakugou mitotic regeneration when your spine doesn't regrow itself through mitosis), but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to say she could tank it.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 29, 2013)

> Location: Pein vs naruto
> DIstance: 20 m
> Knowledge: Manga
> SOM: IC




ITT, Naruto has the option of resorting to KCM and BM too.


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## Skywalker (May 29, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> ITT, Naruto has the option of resorting to KCM and BM too.


Not much of a match then, Sakura and Tsunade get obliterated here if Naruto decides to bust out those modes.


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## Bonly Jr. (May 29, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> But both Sakura and Tsunade can one-shot his summons...



While Naruto stands there and plays poker with his clones, right?


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## ueharakk (May 29, 2013)

narut0ninjafan said:


> I think the essence of the idea of why Tsunade might be able to potentially (not definitely) heal FRS is that Byakugou is regeneration, not healing (she even says so herself) and she can heal herself from stuff she couldn't heal if someone else had the same injury (like for example, normally you're not healing spine tissue but she grew new spine tissue).


I don't think it was stated or implied that she couldn't heal spine tissue with her own medical techniques.  



narut0ninjafan said:


> So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Byakugou could heal her since she can create new cells to replace the ones which have damaged chakra tubes. It's a bit hard to judge for sure since Kishi isn't so consistent with biology in the manga (eg. he calls Byakugou mitotic regeneration when your spine doesn't regrow itself through mitosis), but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to say she could tank it.



the thing is that Naruto has that same kind of regeneration as Tsunade has in just his KN0 state.  That's what allowed him to regrow part of his ribcage and organs like his lungs and muscular tissue in a matter of moments.  And naturally, new cells replace old cells.  In a normal human being all of the cells in our body are completely replaced in I think it was ever 7 years or so.  by that logic, the chakra damage to naruto's hand wouldn't be cronic which is what Tsunade is claiming it to be especially since he heals way faster than a normal person.

In his normal state, he still has advanced regeneration, and the most basic medical ninjutsu: mystic palm is stated to increase the speed of the body's natural healing process and that is exactly what tsunade's mitotic regeneration since that is the way the body naturally heals itself.

I'd say that with the specific manga statement that even Tsunade's medical ninjutsu can't heal the chakra network damage caused by FRS along with the fact that her byakugo and mitotic regeneration work the same way as Naruto's KN0 healing, that the evidence points to her not being able to heal from FRS damage.


----------



## narut0ninjafan (May 29, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> I don't think it was stated or implied that she couldn't heal spine tissue with her own medical techniques.



True and while this isn't the exact same thing, she said there was only a 50% she could heal Lee, and I don't see her being able to heal someone with a giant hole through them from a Susanoo blade. This is just an assumption though to be fair.



> the thing is that Naruto has that same kind of regeneration as Tsunade has in just his KN0 state.  That's what allowed him to regrow part of his ribcage and organs like his lungs and muscular tissue in a matter of moments.  And naturally, new cells replace old cells.  In a normal human being all of the cells in our body are completely replaced in I think it was ever 7 years or so.  by that logic, the chakra damage to naruto's hand wouldn't be cronic which is what Tsunade is claiming it to be especially since he heals way faster than a normal person.



You make a good point about KN0 actually... But at the same time, wasn't KN0 put down in the end? Whereas Kishi seems to portray Tsunade as unkillable and unable to be put down when in Byakugou (her own comments about it, A saying she'll tire herself out rather than be killed) so in Byakugou's case I'd argue that the limit to it Kishi gave us is that it needs to run out. Again though like I said, Kishi isn't very consistent with his biology.

And the 7 years thing is actually a myth, what is actually means is that your body makes as many new cells in 7 years as there are cells in the body (as not all cells are replaced) so I don't think that applies for Naruto's chances of healing.



> In his normal state, he still has advanced regeneration, and the most basic medical ninjutsu: mystic palm is stated to increase the speed of the body's natural healing process and that is exactly what tsunade's mitotic regeneration since that is the way the body naturally heals itself.
> 
> I'd say that with the specific manga statement that even Tsunade's medical ninjutsu can't heal the chakra network damage caused by FRS along with the fact that her byakugo and mitotic regeneration work the same way as Naruto's KN0 healing, that the evidence points to her not being able to heal from FRS damage.



Like I said, her Byakugou is regeneration not speeded up healing though, since most of the shit Tsunade has survived through is not possible to be healed conventionally (she says it's regeneration herself). Tsunade's medical ninjutsu isn't as good as what she can heal/survive herself, which I think was shown with Lee's case - he couldn't be a ninja and she wasn't certain she could heal him whereas she could fight fine herself with large chunks of her spine missing. 

Personally I'd go with Byakugou being potentially (not definitely though) able to heal it as Kishi seems to have set it running out as it's given weakness, but we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.


----------



## joshhookway (May 29, 2013)

Can Tsunade really heal being reduced to the top of her head?


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Naruto obliterates them. His summons quite happily deal with Katsuyu, while Naruto deals with the others.



Katsuyu can acid blast the summons. She's impervious to pretty much everything they have sans fire and oil, the latter of which Naruto doesn't have. Also, you can't be serious in implying that Sakura and Tsunade wouldn't have trouble oneshotting the summons? 

As for the battle, I don't have a single clue. I assume Tsunade might be able to outlast him in such conditions (does he have Ma and Pa? Also, how in god's name are they the only happily married couple in this series? Like, really, a manga filled with humans all about relationships at its core and your only married couple are two ugly as fuq amphibians?) since Byakugo > Sage Mode timeline wise. However, FRS would be the only thing that could kill her and even then it's ambiguous (as, even though Tsunade states she can't heal it, she distinguishes her regeneration jutsu as it goes beyond healing.). If Naruto reverts to base, he's going to eat a 106 CM tit to his forehead, but, if he stays in his Sage Mode, he might be able to win through sheer attrition. 



Rocky said:


> FRS has been noted to be a special type of technique. The technique's primary goal is to target cells, and slice them beyond repair...primarily by targeting the very thing that would allow them to be repaired in the first place.
> 
> Byakugo is regeneration, which is just advanced, passive healing. If the cells *cannot be healed*, why on _earth_ would Byakugo heal them?


Tsunade's regeneration, in one simple, elegant word: clusterfuck. Seriously, Kishimoto might as well been a bio teacher's worst nightmare. Not only does Tsunade state that she can regenerate anything by accelerating the healing system, but she also states she can regrow organs on the same page. This wouldn't be an issue if half of those organs (especially since ones she's regenerated on screen, like the lungs, and ones that haven't needed healing yet like the brain) don't actually have a natural healing process. In short, it's vague enough for people to do pretty much whatever they please with, which is why I run away with it and push it in, what I believe, Kishimoto intended it to do since he kinda screwed up everything biology related. 



FlamingRain said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I assume Hashirama might be talking about her non-accelerated strength. She has a 5 in natural strength in the databook and the Senju do have traits/hype for being physically strong. He died before Tsunade became famous in combat, so I don't believe he knows the true extent of her power. I find his remark to be non indicative of anything since he's kinda a doting dumbass (That I love!!) that lives in the past and thinks Tsunade is still mentally 8 despite the fact that he's been rotting for years. As much as I love derpkage, he's not a reliable source when it comes to Tsunade.


----------



## ueharakk (May 30, 2013)

narut0ninjafan said:


> True and while this isn't the exact same thing, she said there was only a 50% she could heal Lee, and I don't see her being able to heal someone with a giant hole through them from a Susanoo blade. This is just an assumption though to be fair.


It wasn't just healing, it was surgery, she had to remove parts of lee's bone fragments from vital areas within his neuro-spinal tissue.




narut0ninjafan said:


> You make a good point about KN0 actually... But at the same time, wasn't KN0 put down in the end? Whereas Kishi seems to portray Tsunade as unkillable and unable to be put down when in Byakugou (her own comments about it, A saying she'll tire herself out rather than be killed) so in Byakugou's case I'd argue that the limit to it Kishi gave us is that it needs to run out. Again though like I said, Kishi isn't very consistent with his biology.


Whether KN0 was put down or not is not relevant since we are talking about the mechanism in which tsunade heals herself and KN0 heals himself, which are both the same, thus if KN0 healing can't heal the chakra network, then tsunade's byakugo wouldn't heal it either.  

But even if we try to make the comparison between KN0 naruto being put down and Tsunade being put down, it's the same thing, KN0 naruto was hit with so much damage that Naruto was forced out of KN0 and put down just like tsunade was hit with so much damage in byakugo that she was forced out of it and put down.



narut0ninjafan said:


> And the 7 years thing is actually a myth, what is actually means is that your body makes as many new cells in 7 years as there are cells in the body (as not all cells are replaced) so I don't think that applies for Naruto's chances of healing.


well tsunade was specifically talking about Naruto's hand not being able to mold chakra, I'm pretty sure the tissue that comprises the human hand is part of the cells that are replaced every seven years.




narut0ninjafan said:


> Like I said, her Byakugou is regeneration not speeded up healing though, since most of the shit Tsunade has survived through is not possible to be healed conventionally (she says it's regeneration herself). Tsunade's medical ninjutsu isn't as good as what she can heal/survive herself, which I think was shown with Lee's case - he couldn't be a ninja and she wasn't certain she could heal him whereas she could fight fine herself with large chunks of her spine missing.


but she says her regeneration is her own body rapidly generating new cells in order to heal a wound, and that's the same way the body naturally heals wounds.  And the mystic palm technique is stated to speed up the body's natural healing process.



narut0ninjafan said:


> Personally I'd go with Byakugou being potentially (not definitely though) able to heal it as Kishi seems to have set it running out as it's given weakness, but we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.


I guess we are going to have to disagree as I think Kishi does have it set to running out as its given weakness against conventional attacks, but FRS isn't a conventional attack which is why tsunade makes such a statement like her medical ninjutsu can't heal it.


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## narut0ninjafan (May 30, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> It wasn't just healing, it was surgery, she had to remove parts of lee's bone fragments from vital areas within his neuro-spinal tissue.



But the thing is I'm pretty sure Tsunade herself could fight just fine if that happened to her.



> Whether KN0 was put down or not is not relevant since we are talking about the mechanism in which tsunade heals herself and KN0 heals himself, which are both the same, thus if KN0 healing can't heal the chakra network, then tsunade's byakugo wouldn't heal it either.
> 
> But even if we try to make the comparison between KN0 naruto being put down and Tsunade being put down, it's the same thing, KN0 naruto was hit with so much damage that Naruto was forced out of KN0 and put down just like tsunade was hit with so much damage in byakugo that she was forced out of it and put down.



Well, Byakugou was forced to run out after a few hours of fighting, not that an attack was so powerful that it went beyond it's limit, unlike KN0 so I do think Byakugou has shown it's superior.



> well tsunade was specifically talking about Naruto's hand not being able to mold chakra, I'm pretty sure the tissue that comprises the human hand is part of the cells that are replaced every seven years.



Maybe, but I don't think we can be too sure on that though since if you chop off your hand, it's not going to be replaced.



> but she says her regeneration is her own body rapidly generating new cells in order to heal a wound, and that's the same way the body naturally heals wounds.  And the mystic palm technique is stated to speed up the body's natural healing process.



I respect your opinion but I'd have to totally disagree with this point since your natural healing processes aren't healing the stuff Tsunade has healed herself through, like regrowing a large part of your spine (and yet despite missing this chunk she was able to still move). She made the difference between Byakugou and her simple medical ninjutsu used to heal others and I feel the mitosis thing was just thrown in to try and explain it satisfactorily. The way it actually seems to work, in my opinion is that it just creates new cells out of chakra, just like regeneration would work.



> I guess we are going to have to disagree as I think Kishi does have it set to running out as its given weakness against conventional attacks, but FRS isn't a conventional attack which is why tsunade makes such a statement like her medical ninjutsu can't heal it.



We will just have to disagree here, but I respect your opinion since you have made some interesting points.


----------



## Rosencrantz (May 30, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> Katsuyu can acid blast the summons. She's impervious to pretty much everything they have sans fire and oil, the latter of which Naruto doesn't have. Also, you can't be serious in implying that Sakura and Tsunade wouldn't have trouble oneshotting the summons?
> 
> As for the battle, I don't have a single clue. I assume Tsunade might be able to outlast him in such conditions (does he have Ma and Pa? Also, how in god's name are they the only happily married couple in this series? Like, really, a manga filled with humans all about relationships at its core and your only married couple are two ugly as fuq amphibians?) since Byakugo > Sage Mode timeline wise. However, FRS would be the only thing that could kill her and even then it's ambiguous (as, even though Tsunade states she can't heal it, she distinguishes her regeneration jutsu as it goes beyond healing.). If Naruto reverts to base, he's going to eat a 106 CM tit to his forehead, but, if he stays in his Sage Mode, he might be able to win through sheer attrition.


No the summons can dodge. Ken has a shield, Suitons to counter the acid, or slash Katsuya so she can't get big to shoot the acid. Oil and exploding tags. Naruto is a ninja after all. Not sure I understand. Of course they would have trouble one shotting summons. In fact, you don't even know if they can. Bunta has taken blasts from a bjuu and still claimed he could take more. With Ken and Hiro having similar durability saying they can one shot is already laughable. However on the other hand they can for certain one shot Sakura. Unless she can tank blade bisecting her vertically.

Kyuubi was introduced first. Timeline wise, does that make it the weakest bjuu? Ridiculous argument. Sharingan was revealed before byakugan yet it seems to be implied sharingan is superior. Yeah that time line argument makes no sense. Naruto in base can hold his own with Tsunade just fine btw. Nothing she has shown that Naruto can not handle.


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> No the summons can dodge. Ken has a shield, Suitons to counter the acid, or slash Katsuya so she can't get big to shoot the acid. Oil and exploding tags. Naruto is a ninja after all. Not sure I understand. Of course they would have trouble one shotting summons. In fact, you don't even know if they can. Bunta has taken blasts from a bjuu and still claimed he could take more. With Ken and Hiro having similar durability saying they can one shot is already laughable. However on the other hand they can for certain one shot Sakura. Unless she can tank blade bisecting her vertically.


Ken's shield isn't going to work a second time. Dodging the acidic blasts is possible, but, think about the consequences. The ground will be pooling acidic substances, which means every time Katsuyu fires one, the possibilities get less and less in terms of dodging. As for exploding tags, I don't think Naruto's going to have the opportunity to actually use them, in between dodging acidic blasts, and Tsunade and Sakura running up on a summon. A punch from Tsunade, especially with its concentrated force, should end a summon, or, at least, render them immobile. This is the same lady that destroyed a street with a kick, after all. And, Gamabunta's bones were crushed by a Shinra Tensei, if memory serves right. Tsunade's punch - or Sakura's, even, - will definitely cause some serious pain. 





> Kyuubi was introduced first. Timeline wise, does that make it the weakest bjuu? Ridiculous argument. Sharingan was revealed before byakugan yet it seems to be implied sharingan is superior. Yeah that time line argument makes no sense. Naruto in base can hold his own with Tsunade just fine btw. Nothing she has shown that Naruto can not handle.


That's not what I meant by timeline wise. I meant the duration Tsunade can stay in Byakugo is superior to the duration Naruto can stay in Sage Mode. That's not what I meant at all.  

And I'm not disagreeing that he can hold his own in base, but I believe, in the end, Tsunade would trump base Naruto.


----------



## Bonly Jr. (May 30, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> Katsuyu can acid blast the summons. She's impervious to pretty much everything they have sans fire and oil, the latter of which Naruto doesn't have. Also, you can't be serious in implying that Sakura and Tsunade wouldn't have trouble oneshotting the summons?



Yeah, Bunta is extremely agile. I doubt she'd get one over on him [1]. Gamaken is also really agile, refer to his fight with Pain otherwise, I cannot be bothered. Also, Naruto carries explosive tags, as does every ninja.

By the way, Naruto carries explosive tags [2]. The explosion combined with the oil will produce fire, good enough for me.

They can, but Naruto along with his clones won't allow such things.


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## wooly Eullerex (May 30, 2013)

Naruto pulverizes Tsunade & Katsyuu w/ many clones bearing many spiraling gifts.


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## ueharakk (May 30, 2013)

narut0ninjafan said:


> But the thing is I'm pretty sure Tsunade herself could fight just fine if that happened to her.


I'd agree with this, but at the same time it could be argued that kishi doesn't even care about those kind of details in any of the fights in the manga, tsunade or not.




narut0ninjafan said:


> Well, Byakugou was forced to run out after a few hours of fighting, not that an attack was so powerful that it went beyond it's limit, unlike KN0 so I do think Byakugou has shown it's superior.


sure it's shown its superiority in that it lasts a lot longer than that KN0 instance, but that's not what we are arguing, we are arguing mechanism.  IF KN0 heals the user via the exact same mechanism as byakugo, and KN0 can't heal the damage from FRS, then why would byakugo despite it lasting much longer than KN0, be able to heal that same damage?



narut0ninjafan said:


> Maybe, but I don't think we can be too sure on that though since if you chop off your hand, it's not going to be replaced.


that's not the same thing.  Your body isn't going to replace your chopped off hand, but the cells in your hand assuming it's attached to your body will all replace themselves after 7 years, therefore if replacing the cells replaces the chakra network, then once the cells are replaced, the chakra network is going to be replaced as well.




narut0ninjafan said:


> I respect your opinion but I'd have to totally disagree with this point since your natural healing processes aren't healing the stuff Tsunade has healed herself through, like regrowing a large part of your spine (and yet despite missing this chunk she was able to still move). She made the difference between Byakugou and her simple medical ninjutsu used to heal others and I feel the mitosis thing was just thrown in to try and explain it satisfactorily. The way it actually seems to work, in my opinion is that it just creates new cells out of chakra, just like regeneration would work.


okay, it's an understandable view.




narut0ninjafan said:


> We will just have to disagree here, but I respect your opinion since you have made some interesting points.


same here.


----------



## FlamingRain (May 30, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Yeah, Bunta is extremely agile. I doubt she'd get one over on him [1]. Gamaken is also really agile, refer to his fight with Pain otherwise, I cannot be bothered. Also, Naruto carries explosive tags, as does every ninja.
> 
> By the way, Naruto carries explosive tags [2]. The explosion combined with the oil will produce fire, good enough for me.
> 
> They can, but Naruto along with his clones won't allow such things.



Could Katsuyu not just discard an outer layer of divisions to get rid of the flames?


----------



## Butterfly (May 30, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Yeah, Bunta is extremely agile. I doubt she'd get one over on him [1]. Gamaken is also really agile, refer to his fight with Pain otherwise, I cannot be bothered. Also, Naruto carries explosive tags, as does every ninja.
> 
> By the way, Naruto carries explosive tags [2]. The explosion combined with the oil will produce fire, good enough for me.
> 
> They can, but Naruto along with his clones won't allow such things.



The more the battle wears on, the less space the frogs will have to evade since highly corrosive acid will be pooling on the ground. Evasion is possible, but I don't see how it would be for long. Even then, I highly doubt he's going to be able to land an explosive tag, considering how it'll just put him in range for an acid blast. Or, as highlighted below, Katsuyu could just possibly cast off the charred remains.


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## Rosencrantz (May 31, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> Ken's shield isn't going to work a second time. Dodging the acidic blasts is possible, but, think about the consequences. The ground will be pooling acidic substances, which means every time Katsuyu fires one, the possibilities get less and less in terms of dodging. As for exploding tags, I don't think Naruto's going to have the opportunity to actually use them, in between dodging acidic blasts, and Tsunade and Sakura running up on a summon. A punch from Tsunade, especially with its concentrated force, should end a summon, or, at least, render them immobile. This is the same lady that destroyed a street with a kick, after all. And, Gamabunta's bones were crushed by a Shinra Tensei, if memory serves right. Tsunade's punch - or Sakura's, even, - will definitely cause some serious pain.
> 
> 
> That's not what I meant by timeline wise. I meant the duration Tsunade can stay in Byakugo is superior to the duration Naruto can stay in Sage Mode. That's not what I meant at all.
> ...



It might. Hell it may not need to. That really makes no sense. A frog can easily just move to a part where there is no acid. Katsuya's acid had no impact on the battlefield before and I have no reason to believe it will here. You are being silly. Gamabunta has shown to be quite faster than Katsuya. So has Gamaken. Far more likely that Katsuya will be on the ropes than Katsuya will be keeping just one boss summon on the ropes. THIS IS NOT EVEN INCLUDING IF NARUTO SUMMONS MORE THAN ONE FROG. Not only that but Tsunade and Sakura can easily be distracted by Kage Bunshins. A guy that can be thousands of places at once will not be able to use an exploding tag? Hilarious. Tsunade/Sakura do not have Shinra Tensei. However Bunta has tanked a blast from a bjuu and claimed to be able to tank more. One punch is not gonna down Bunta assuming they can land one.

Sorry about timeline thing. Ok then yes I understand.

Tsunade may be able to beat Base Naruto. Maybe. But that's key. MAYBE. This is SM Naruto and even if SM runs out Naruto can distract Tsunade to get his SM back.

The problem with your arguments is that you are making this an isolated battle. You completely and utterly have refused to say ANYTHING about Naruto on the offensive end or Tsunade/Sakura on the defensive end. For instance, SM Naruto send 3 Kage Bunshins at Tsunade and he runs at Sakura with a rasengan in hand. Naruto runs at Sakura and dodges her punch and lands a rasengan in her face. She is far slower, less skilled, less intelligent, less experienced,  and overall weaker than Sandaime Raikage. SM Naruto should logically be able to perform this because Sakura's style is basically run straight at an opponent and punch. Is there anyway to stop this from happening? Maybe Tsunade? No she has 3 SM Kage Bunshins in her face who are individually at least on the same level in strength, faster, have better reflexes, and can pressure her. Katsuya? She will be tied up by the FASTER Gamabunta or potentially both Bunta and Ken. And Tsunade IC does not summon her so quickly. So Sakura is downed. Tsunade will need Byakugou quickly to prevent being put down by a rasengan variant. So Katsuya is being chopped up and unable to use acid in smaller forms and continues to be prevented from reforming by Bunta or Bunta/Ken. And now Naruto only needs to land a FRS, something I can see him doing especially with summons on the field. If SM runs out, he is strong enough in base to hold his own and can get back to SM.

You see what I did? I told you what everyone was doing on the field of battle. When Sakura went down I showed that no one could help her in that situation and gave a reasonable scenario based on past battles. I have shown why Katsuya can not help Tsunade against SM Naruto. Which essentially means can Naruto land a FRS on Tsunade. Keep in mind he can use 3 now before running out making it more likely he will land one.


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## -JT- (May 31, 2013)

And yet again, Sakura is getting overhyped beyond belief...

She's still a nonfactor in this battle. Having Sakura on her team gives Tsunade no benefit whatsoever.

Naruto stomps.


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## Butterfly (May 31, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> It might. Hell it may not need to. That really makes no sense. A frog can easily just move to a part where there is no acid. Katsuya's acid had no impact on the battlefield before and I have no reason to believe it will here. You are being silly. Gamabunta has shown to be quite faster than Katsuya. So has Gamaken. Far more likely that Katsuya will be on the ropes than Katsuya will be keeping just one boss summon on the ropes.


Katsuyu can't be on the ropes. She's noticeably durable to everything Gamabunta tosses her. At best, you'll have ninjutsu clashes of acid and water, which may not result in anyone's favor - Tsunade and Naruto included. Katsuyu's acid has had no battle impact before in terms of the ground but she only fired it once before Manda turned it into CQC and prevented her from spitting again via strangulation. Anyways, her acid does not leave the battlefield, even after evaporation. I continues to pool and evaporate, as seen in the bottom right. 

Besides, this isn't counting Katsuyu firing more acidic blasts. I have no doubt Gamabunta can evade them all at first, but what happens when most of the ground is inoperable because stepping on it would result in losing a foot? <strike>Like a diabetic at an all you can eat buffet?</strike> Katsuyu being on the ropes isn't anything that would phase her (or Sakura because, why not, for the most part, I'll be placing her here since lbr, she's not doing anything on her own any time soon).




> A guy that can be thousands of places at once will not be able to use an exploding tag? Hilarious. Tsunade/Sakura do not have Shinra Tensei. However Bunta has tanked a blast from a bjuu and claimed to be able to tank more. One punch is not gonna down Bunta assuming they can land one.


A bijuu blast =/= a concentrated punch. Tsunade's kick is going to crush Bunta's skull[1]. If a single punch cracked Susano and a second opened it up, Gamabunta is going to be severely impaired by the first hit, either mobility wise (if she gets a limb) or cognitive/mobility wise (if she makes contact with his head). There's no way avoiding it. Both of their strengths are just far too great for any one animal/person to just "shrug off". One punch might not down him, but it will leave him borderline incapacitated and I can't imagine him tanking a follow up blow because, instead of force being applied blindly all over, it's being concentrated and pushed towards one point and then the force distributes itself because there's no way one point can handle it all. If Tsunade (or Sakura, by the grace of God) manages to land a hit there, I don't see Gamabunta being able to survive such concentrated force going to one place. 




> Sorry about timeline thing. Ok then yes I understand.


Don't worry about it. I wasn't clear enough, haha. 



> Tsunade may be able to beat Base Naruto. Maybe. But that's key. MAYBE. This is SM Naruto and even if SM runs out Naruto can distract Tsunade to get his SM back.


I never disputed this. I know this battle is about SM naruto. 




> The problem with your arguments is that you are making this an isolated battle. You completely and utterly have refused to say ANYTHING about Naruto on the offensive end or Tsunade/Sakura on the defensive end. For instance, SM Naruto send 3 Kage Bunshins at Tsunade and he runs at Sakura with a rasengan in hand. Naruto runs at Sakura and dodges her punch and lands a rasengan in her face. She is far slower, less skilled, less intelligent, less experienced,  and overall weaker than Sandaime Raikage. SM Naruto should logically be able to perform this because Sakura's style is basically run straight at an opponent and punch. Is there anyway to stop this from happening? Maybe Tsunade? No she has 3 SM Kage Bunshins in her face who are individually at least on the same level in strength, faster, have better reflexes, and can pressure her. Katsuya? She will be tied up by the FASTER Gamabunta or potentially both Bunta and Ken. And Tsunade IC does not summon her so quickly. So Sakura is downed. Tsunade will need Byakugou quickly to prevent being put down by a rasengan variant. So Katsuya is being chopped up and unable to use acid in smaller forms and continues to be prevented from reforming by Bunta or Bunta/Ken. And now Naruto only needs to land a FRS, something I can see him doing especially with summons on the field. If SM runs out, he is strong enough in base to hold his own and can get back to SM.


I was referring to the battle of summons initially. I never once made a reference to Sakura, Tsunade, or Naruto because I was, for the most part, disputing a claim brought up about the summons being able to obliterate Katsuyu, who is seemingly the most durable (and annoying in terms of like her insect brethren, nothing kills her) character in the series.  If you want me to type up a post about the battle, I'd be happy to do so but that would be after I take a look at everything. The first time I posted here, I was relatively unsure about a victor and just decided to look at the facts later and focus on a more minuscule part of the overall whole of a fight. I never posted anything indicating the whole of a battle, so why would I need to include how everyone is Kung Fu fighting like one of those Football Down replays complete with the yellow lines and x's?  

Tsunade does summon quickly ICly, though. The moment she got over her phobia with blood, the first thing she did was start to summon. She summons whenever she knows she'll be dealing against multiple opponents too. The only time she didn't do this was against Madara, where a giant slug might cause mobility problems, especially since there are tree branches going up, etc. and Katsuyu can't simply become airborne at any given moment. Naruto, on the other hand, is a known summoner, a known cloner, etc. and to think Tsunade wouldn't try to keep the number advantage neutral by summoning a slug that can divide herself into the thousands seems a little silly, imo. Not to mention, I think they'd all try to stick together knowing that Sakura can't handle herself against Naruto and that Katsuyu might be in trouble if Naruto just decides to summon all of the bayou. 




> You see what I did? I told you what everyone was doing on the field of battle. When Sakura went down I showed that no one could help her in that situation and gave a reasonable scenario based on past battles. I have shown why Katsuya can not help Tsunade against SM Naruto. Which essentially means can Naruto land a FRS on Tsunade. Keep in mind he can use 3 now before running out making it more likely he will land one.


That's great and all but I never intended to debate about the battle as a whole.  From my initial post, I was just disputing a point about summons - never once announcing who would win when it came to SM Naruto vs. Sakura/Tsunade. Your wonderfully narrated countdown on how Team 2 suffers is a decent post, but I believe it's missing its audience (nor do I think they'd pull a scooby doo and split up but whatever). You're attempting to debate a point with me that I never brought up, stated or accepted/denied.


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## Rosencrantz (May 31, 2013)

Butterfly said:


> Katsuyu can't be on the ropes. She's noticeably durable to everything Gamabunta tosses her. At best, you'll have ninjutsu clashes of acid and water, which may not result in anyone's favor - Tsunade and Naruto included. Katsuyu's acid has had no battle impact before in terms of the ground but she only fired it once before Manda turned it into CQC and prevented her from spitting again via strangulation. Anyways, her acid does not leave the battlefield, even after evaporation. I continues to pool and evaporate, as seen in the bottom right.
> 
> Besides, this isn't counting Katsuyu firing more acidic blasts. I have no doubt Gamabunta can evade them all at first, but what happens when most of the ground is inoperable because stepping on it would result in losing a foot? <strike>Like a diabetic at an all you can eat buffet?</strike> Katsuyu being on the ropes isn't anything that would phase her (or Sakura because, why not, for the most part, I'll be placing her here since lbr, she's not doing anything on her own any time soon).
> 
> ...



Katsuya can't be on the ropes? That does not make any sense. Bunta is faster so of course she would be on the ropes. If your argument is simply "she can't be on the ropes" then you honestly don't have much of one at all. Let's say she fires acid. Bunta dodges and then slashes her with his sword. She then splits up. and while she tries to reform, Bunta just keeps hammering her, preventing her from reforming. What's wrong with that? Bunta is too slow? Katsuya too fast? Not at all. That is swamp of the underworld in the bottom right corner. Read the whole chapter. Just a simple mistake.

This is not the World's Martial Arts Tournament. There is no ring. Bunta can just keep dodging her constantly. This is a huge landscape. Katsuya will have to come to him. Not the other way around. Bunta has giant suitons he can fire from distance. Katsuya has to come closer to Bunta. Bunta controls the terrain. And again you seem to discount the possibility of a counterattack. She fires acid and Bunta just dodges and slashes her. Or idk, Katsuya fires acid, Bunta rapid fires two suiton bullets. One dispels the acid and the second hits Katsuya directly. The acid has not shown to have any significant effect on the terrain either.

The blast is distributed all over his body.
[1]
This blast is far more impressive than the single kick from Tsunade. And Bunta can take more than one of them. Of course their attacks will do damage to Bunta. I was saying they won't get one shot by them. They can take at least a few hits before going down. This blast destroyed the landscape.

Could've sworn you said something about Tsunade/Sakura one shotting summons. Maybe it was someone else. Cause if that claim is made then one arguing that claim still must reason how Naruto is distracted during all of this.

Tsunade had to fight Kabuto and chase after Orochimaru for like 2-3 chapters, then get cut up by Orochimaru before finally knocking him away, healing, and summoning. Fact is, she has not summoned at the beginning of a battle. It is not IC. If she does, Bunta holds her off just fine. Most of this paragraph sounds like convenient excuses for why she did not summon Bunta. She is also outnumbering him in this scenario with Sakura by her side.

Not saying Sakura and Tsunade split up. But SM Naruto can easily make them split up by pitting Tsunade agaisnt a few Kage Bunshins while Naruto deals with Sakura himself.


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## Butterfly (May 31, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Katsuya can't be on the ropes? That does not make any sense. Bunta is faster so of course she would be on the ropes. If your argument is simply "she can't be on the ropes" then you honestly don't have much of one at all. Let's say she fires acid. Bunta dodges and then slashes her with his sword. She then splits up. and while she tries to reform, Bunta just keeps hammering her, preventing her from reforming. What's wrong with that? Bunta is too slow? Katsuya too fast? Not at all. That is swamp of the underworld in the bottom right corner. Read the whole chapter. Just a simple mistake.


I meant defensively, in terms of how much damage it can take. It has a huge damage soak and Bunta's water attacks/swords slashes/etc. aren't going to actually physically harm it. If Bunta approaches her, what's stopping her from firing another acid blast when he's right in front of her? He can't dodge point blank acid, it dwarfs Katsuyu's face and spreads out in general, which makes approaching her a hazard (not that I think Naruto would want a boss summon to approach Katsuyu/Tsunade and CO. anyways, since he knows that their strength makes it hell for them).




> This is not the World's Martial Arts Tournament. There is no ring. Bunta can just keep dodging her constantly. This is a huge landscape. Katsuya will have to come to him. Not the other way around. Bunta has giant suitons he can fire from distance. Katsuya has to come closer to Bunta. Bunta controls the terrain. And again you seem to discount the possibility of a counterattack. She fires acid and Bunta just dodges and slashes her. Or idk, Katsuya fires acid, Bunta rapid fires two suiton bullets. One dispels the acid and the second hits Katsuya directly. The acid has not shown to have any significant effect on the terrain either.


This is a huge landscape, but he can't move himself out of the landscape. Katsuyu's acid blasts are huge as well, being able to dwarf her antennas[1], which make Tsunade look tiny[2]. She doesn't need to get closer or anything. If Bunta is closer to her (which is the only way he can slash her) he's getting hit, and that's not going to be a pretty side. I suppose he could wash and dilute the acid on the ground (I mean, it's not going anywhere anytime soon) but it's still presenting a major problem. The second suiton most likely isn't going to effect Katsuyu, since Suitons have never really hurt anyone. 




> The blast is distributed all over his body.
> [2]
> This blast is far more impressive than the single kick from Tsunade. And Bunta can take more than one of them. Of course their attacks will do damage to Bunta. I was saying they won't get one shot by them. They can take at least a few hits before going down. This blast destroyed the landscape.


Yeah. The blast distributes itself all over him, but a single kick from Tsunade carries the same force towards one focal point. A single hit may not _kill_ him, but he's not going to be performing in any sort of effective manner after a single one. 



> Tsunade had to fight Kabuto and chase after Orochimaru for like 2-3 chapters, then get cut up by Orochimaru before finally knocking him away, healing, and summoning. Fact is, she has not summoned at the beginning of a battle.


Of course she wouldn't summon then. She had a deeply ingrained phobia regarding blood at the start of the battle, until she got over it and then immediately summoned. Why on earth would she attempt to summon when she has a fear of blood? That's ridiculously counterproductive. It is IC for Tsunade to summon. She did so the moment she got over her fear of blood, against an opponent she thought could not summon (knowing Orochimaru couldn't use jutsu and believing Kabuto was incapacitated from Rasengan). Of course it wouldn't be IC for Tsunade to summon if she still feared blood, because blood is required to summon  



> It is not IC. If she does, Bunta holds her off just fine. Most of this paragraph sounds like convenient excuses for why she did not summon Bunta. She is also outnumbering him in this scenario with Sakura by her side.


Tsunade knows Naruto can produce multiple clones that go above and beyond the number two. She's not going to forget this either, not to mention, I don't think she'd believe Sakura would be significant help against a kage-leveled opponent in and of itself, especially if he can duplicate himself. If Naruto somehow forgot how to clone himself, I can see her forsaking the summon, but, do you really think she's going to forget his signature technique? 



> Not saying Sakura and Tsunade split up. But SM Naruto can easily make them split up by pitting Tsunade agaisnt a few Kage Bunshins while Naruto deals with Sakura himself.


And how he's going to do that? What if Tsunade refuses to take the bait and keep Sakura with her? Or, worse, what if she just makes Katsuyu absorb Sakura so she can pop out at random against Naruto and his clones. Tsunade's not going to forget Sakura's totally inequipped to deal with Naruto, so I don't think she's leaving him alone anytime soon (unless Sakura demonstrates regeneration, at which point, get it sis.)


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## Jinemba (May 31, 2013)

Tsunade got foddered by one path of Pain
Sakura by default gets foddered by one path of Pain

Sage Mode can at least hold his own for a while against all 6 Paths. Not only does Naruto out perform both of them against Pain but the fact that he can hold his own against 6 opponents means he should be able to handle two opponents (Tsunade and Sakura) who should not amount to more than 2 or 3 of Pain's paths.

By Manga showing SM Naruto wins

By Gut Feeling the 5th Hokage and Sakura win


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## tanman (May 31, 2013)

and then Tsunade wank was finally out of control.
This shit gives actual fans a bad name.


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## Shizune (Jun 1, 2013)

tanman said:


> and then Tsunade wank was finally out of control.
> This shit gives actual fans a bad name.



Exactly. 

On the one hand Kishi can't make it any clearer that Naruto has surpassed the Sannin, but on the other hand I love pretending that Tsunade could beat him.


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## Unknown (Jun 1, 2013)

LOL As if you needed to be as fast the Raikage to dodge the FRS 

All of the bodies of Pain dodged it, including the ones that were only as fast as Kiba, Ino, etc.

Tsunade is faster or as fast as Pain. She would casual dodge the FRS and in hth combat she'll rape Naruto.


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## Rocky (Jun 1, 2013)

Unknown said:


> LOL As if you needed to be as fast the Raikage to dodge the FRS
> 
> All of the bodies of Pain dodged it, including the ones that were only as fast as Kiba, Ino, etc.
> 
> Tsunade is faster or as fast as Pain. She would casual dodge the FRS and in hth combat she'll rape Naruto.




Naruto can throw it point blank, or when she's airborne and can't avoid. 

For once she doesn't hold the strength advantage. With the "Chakra enhanced strength" technique (what Sakura uses), I suppose she strikes harder than him, but he makes up for it easily with Rasengan. 

Tsunade's problem occurs when she tires to super punch Naruto and he continuously and consistently dodges everything thanks to his massive increase in perceptual ability. Sage sensing. He can duck & weave her punches all day er' day, and smack her with his own blows that don't even need to connect thanks to the natural energy extensions. 

Naruto can literally employ the same strategy he used against the Raikage and make Tsunade punch herself for shits and giggles. She's not slow, but she isn't fast, and she's way too dependent on straight up Taijutsu to take someone who can duck and weave Raikage and counterattack with power equal to her own.  She gets blown back and FRS'd, just as Pain would have if not for his gravity & Chakra absorption abilities.


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## Unknown (Jun 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Naruto can throw it point blank, or when she's airborne and can't avoid.



Naruto isn't faster than Tsunade. And he won't have a chance to use it at blank point, and It's not as if ninjas didn't have ways to avoid proyectiles in mid air. 



Rocky said:


> For once she doesn't hold the strength advantage. With the "Chakra enhanced strength" technique (what Sakura uses), I suppose she strikes harder than him, but he makes up for it easily with Rasengan.



 Are you comparing a rasengan with Susanoo busting punchs? 



Rocky said:


> Tsunade's problem occurs when she tires to super punch Naruto and he continuously and consistently dodges everything thanks to his massive increase in perceptual ability. Sage sensing. He can duck & weave her punches all day er' day, and smack her with his own blows that don't even need to connect thanks to the natural energy extensions.


Naruto may dodge the punch, but It later will create destroy the ground sending rocks flyings towards Naruto.



Rocky said:


> Naruto can literally employ the same strategy he used against the Raikage and make Tsunade punch herself for shits and giggles. She's not slow, but she isn't fast, and she's way too dependent on straight up Taijutsu to take someone who can duck and weave Raikage and counterattack with power equal to her own.  She gets blown back and
> FRS'd, just as Pain would have if not for his gravity & Chakra absorption abilities.



 Now SM Naruto has better reflex than Madara who Tsunade could dodge.


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## Bonly (Jun 1, 2013)

Unknown said:


> Naruto isn't faster than Tsunade.





Can you tell me when has Tsunade shown to be faster then Naruto?


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## Rocky (Jun 1, 2013)

Unknown said:


> Naruto isn't faster than Tsunade. And he won't have a chance to use it at blank point, and It's not as if ninjas didn't have ways to avoid proyectiles in mid air.




Yes Naruto is much faster than Tsunade. He's a Sage with advanced reflexes. She's has average speed for a Kage.




> Are you comparing a rasengan with Susanoo busting punchs?




When that Rasengan is coming from a guy on Tsunade's strength tier...yes. 



> Naruto may dodge the punch, but It later will create destroy the ground sending rocks flyings towards Naruto.




Oh no rocks.



> Now SM Naruto has better reflex than Madara who Tsunade could dodge.




She never dodged anything. Madara himself never engaged Tsunade in serious CQC, and Naruto's reflexes would be up there with Madara's. 

Madara was toying with them anyway.


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## Bonly Jr. (Jun 1, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Could Katsuyu not just discard an outer layer of divisions to get rid of the flames?



It's going to be covering her entire body, I doubt it. Even if she does, she's still going to be injured from the attack, as when she divides, she ultimately has to group back together. The burns remain. She can't exactly shed her skin.



Butterfly said:


> The more the battle wears on, the less space the frogs will have to evade since highly corrosive acid will be pooling on the ground. Evasion is possible, but I don't see how it would be for long. Even then, I highly doubt he's going to be able to land an explosive tag, considering how it'll just put him in range for an acid blast. Or, as highlighted below, Katsuyu could just possibly cast off the charred remains.



Not how it works. Bunta shoots some oil at her, and Naruto throws in the explosive tags in with the oil. Naruto makes the tags explode with the Kai sign, and voila, a burning slug.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 1, 2013)

^ And rinse & repeat if neccessary.

the gama_trio > katsyuu by way of supreme mobility & buntas array of ninjutsu

there is really no advantage to be had for Tsunade over naruto ITT.


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## Remsengan (Jun 1, 2013)

Tsunade poisons Naruto's Ramen, gg.































................................................................................Naruto wins obv.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 1, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> It's going to be covering her entire body, I doubt it. Even if she does, she's still going to be injured from the attack, as when she divides, she ultimately has to group back together. The burns remain. She can't exactly shed her skin.



She does not have to draw every division back into her. The divisions may all be able to tell what the others are thinking but they aren't restricted to all performing the same actions. They can act independently, so burning divisions don't have to reconnect when the rest of Katsuyu does.

And she can cast off certain divisions without dividing completely, as seen when she moved Naruto away from the battlefield during the Sannin fight.

There's no reason the burns would remain.

And even then Gamayu Endan's flames don't last for as long as pocket sized Katsuyu was touching KN6- KN8's cloaks with no apparent injury (when even KN4 made _Orochimaru_ ditch his old body for fear of disintegrating), so I'm not confident in Gamayu Endan doing anything to even weaken Katsuyu.


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## Bonly Jr. (Jun 1, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> She does not have to draw every division back into her. The divisions may all be able to tell what the others are thinking but they aren't restricted to all performing the same actions. They can act independently, so burning divisions don't have to reconnect when the rest of Katsuyu does.
> 
> And she can cast off certain divisions without dividing completely, as seen when she moved Naruto away from the battlefield during the Sannin fight.
> 
> ...



Alright, but just how effective is Katsuyu when she's divided? Not that useful actually, and I'm talking offensively.

Casting off certain divisions isn't going to be good enough when a giant flame engulfs her entire body. Bunta's oil makes sure of this.

Please, tell me exactly how hot KN8 Naruto is? I keep hearing this, yet no indications as to how hot it is has been made. It leaves burn marks on Naruto's skin, and I recall it being said to be corrosive. Is that it?


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## FlamingRain (Jun 1, 2013)

Minato Namikaze said:


> Alright, but just how effective is Katsuyu when she's divided? Not that useful actually, and I'm talking offensively.
> 
> Casting off certain divisions isn't going to be good enough when a giant flame engulfs her entire body. Bunta's oil makes sure of this.
> 
> Please, tell me exactly how hot KN8 Naruto is? I keep hearing this, yet no indications as to how hot it is has been made. It leaves burn marks on Naruto's skin, and I recall it being said to be corrosive. Is that it?



Potentially very effective if Tsunade supercharges Zesshi Nensan like she did Onoki's Jinton,

But, I don't think Katsuyu is something Naruto wouldn't be able to handle, I'm just not sure Gamayu Endan would be one of the ways to handle it.

She casts off a top layer of divisions, then the part underneath that layer is unscathed. Of course if the flames actually killed the divisions Katsuyu would be smaller, but eh.

began to spread once it hit the village KN_4_ Naruto makes Orochimaru of all people ditch his body to avoid disintegration. We've seen Tsunade's arms/hands withstand high level Katons from Madara Uchiha. I don't see why Tsunade's skin would be any more resistant to fire than Orochimaru's, and I would logically assume the heat only increases as the tails do, so the Kyuubi cloak is superhot.

On the other hand, how hot is Gamayu Endan? It's extremely big (it's a multi-block sized attack), and thus extremely dangerous, but does that really make it any _hotter_ than other high-level Katons?

Now if Gamayu Endan were some attack that lasted all day and night like Amaterasu I would be more hesitant to say she survives it, but it went out not too long after the initial explosion.


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## TheGreen1 (Jun 2, 2013)

There is no way, if Tsunade and Sakura attack with CQC, that they can beat a serious SM Naruto.

Frog Kata's take them out. He's too fast for them, sensing gives him a unbelievable advantage, and Frog Kata's make sure that even if he doesn't hit them, he will still kill them.



Matto-sama said:


> But both Sakura and Tsunade can one-shot his summons...


Ok, so Fukusaku and Shima are one-shotted by both? Please, Frog Song takes both out.

Also people, should we consider that Kurama would play nice now and allow Fukusaku and Shima to fuse?


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## Butterfly (Jun 2, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> ^ And rinse & repeat if neccessary.
> 
> the gama_trio > katsyuu by way of supreme mobility & buntas array of ninjutsu
> 
> there is really no advantage to be had for Tsunade over naruto ITT.



none of their ninjutsu can take out katsuyu though. 



TheGreen1 said:


> Ok, so Fukusaku and Shima are one-shotted by both? Please, Frog Song takes both out.
> 
> Also people, should we consider that Kurama would play nice now and allow Fukusaku and Shima to fuse?



Context wise, I think they were talking about the other summons.


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## Unknown (Jun 3, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Can you tell me when has Tsunade shown to be faster then Naruto?



When she was able to keep up with Edo Madara the most powerful ninja in the manga


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