# Itachi vs Minato



## Owl (Oct 1, 2013)

Location: Downtown Konoha or whatever

Restrictions: None

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Knowledge: Whatever they know about each other in the story so far

*NO EDO TENSEI* - Whoever mention anything about Edo Tensei will be negged by me. Believe it.

Alright, who takes this? Discuss!


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Why bring up this fandom war thread yet again. We all know the answer.

Minato fans think Minato wins.

Itachi fans side with Mr. King.

Feat Nazi's believe Itachi is the decisive victor.

Portrayal guys think Kishi has placed Minato on a higher pedestal. 

The people who combine both are most likely Minato or Itachi fans.

Begin the infinite debate loop.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Any knowledge, OP?

Tends to be an important part of the 'Itachi vs. Minato' fights...


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## Owl (Oct 1, 2013)

Whatever they know about each other in the story.


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## Ennoia (Oct 1, 2013)

Dat location, clone feints galore. Minato gets hit with an exploding clone or Itachi hits him with Amaterasu from a window?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Itachi wins.

... literally the worst person to fight without knowledge. 

Utakata/Decapitation or Tsukuyomi (likelier)


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## Elite Uchiha (Oct 1, 2013)

Minato blitzes rather easily.


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## Coppur (Oct 1, 2013)

Let see, I'm going with Minato, landing a tsukuyomi will be difficult as Minato's fighting style revolves around flanking and fast attacks, and as seen in the Madara fight, landing genjutsu on a speedy opponent is very difficult. And any other genjutsu can be countered by Minato's toads. The rest of Itachi's jutsu is too slow to hit Minato, simply chakra wasters, and seeing by the fact that Itachi has limited stamina, Minato takes this. However, if you were to make this Edo Itachi, Itachi would be victorious, but do we really need to start this flame war?


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Itachi wins.



Minato wins.



> ... literally the worst person to fight without knowledge.



Minato is just as, if not more dangerous.

Minato also has the better resume in no-knowledge matches. Beating Mangekyou Obito & Ei quickly is more impressive than beating Orochimaru & Deidara quickly. 



> Utakata/Decapitation or Tsukuyomi (likelier)



Hiraishin speedblitz.


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## Psp123789 (Oct 1, 2013)

A minato vs itachi thread? I thought this was settled a long time ago.


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

50/50 chance for both. Now everyone shut the hell up, and go eat taco's.


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## Tsunami (Oct 1, 2013)

I see Minato getting fucky with Itachi with FTG then Itachi ends up taking a rasengan to the face. Minato wins high diff. I am fans of neither


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Minato wins.



I beg to differ.



> Minato is just as, if not more dangerous.



Itachi just... needs to look/point at you, while Minato tries to make physical contact. 



> Minato also has the better resume in no-knowledge matches. Beating Mangekyou Obito & Ei quickly is more impressive than beating Orochimaru & Deidara quickly.



And?
Ei and MS Obito are similar to Minato, considering their abilities revolve around speed and one-dimensional attacks. Itachi has the full package: power and versatility. 

Minato never fought someone like Itachi, and 14-year-old Obito isn't the same; the guy is an imbecile.



> Hiraishin speedblitz.



Not helpful in a genjutsu... 

If we are going by manga knowledge, Itachi is aware of the threat Minato poses. 
On the other hand, Minato doesn't know very much about Itachi's prowess

Itachi is going to jump the gun before Minato. How much do you wanna bet?


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## Owl (Oct 1, 2013)

Psp123789 said:


> A minato vs itachi thread? I thought this was settled a long time ago.



This is never settled, and never will be.


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## Baroxio (Oct 1, 2013)

Owl said:


> Whatever they know about each other in the story.


So Minato knows nothing then, and Itachi has a decided knowledge advantage? okay. 

At any rate, does Minato have access to the Kyuubi? The answer to that question is the answer to whether or not Minato wins.


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## Owl (Oct 1, 2013)

I did say no restrictions, didn't I? Both of them can use whatever force they can against the other, and that includes having access to the Kyuubi.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Owl said:


> I did say no restrictions, didn't I? Both of them can use whatever force they can against the other, and that includes having access to the Kyuubi.



That means Itachi has access to Koto? 

I think we know the victor.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

Minato wins low difficult. It's should be more obvious now.
Minato can shit in itachi's most powerful jutsus!

- he can teleport the Susanoo, as we saw when he teleported Sasuke out of it.
- he can dodge Amaterasu, and even IF by someway it did land Minato can teleport himself away from it
as we already saw in the manga. 

- clones for the Genjutsu, or contract seal. 

Minato will blitz itachi.


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Minato cannot use Kyuubi while alive. He has not the body for it. Only Uzumaki's have been shown capable of harboring the Kyuubi, and IIRC Minato said his body went numb from harboring it within him even before his soul got sucked out. His Edo body allows him not to feel any side effects. 

Also Minato does have knowledge of via Hiruzen, so he knows that he was gifted, wise as a Kage, and that he slayed every Uchiha.


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## Coppur (Oct 1, 2013)

Owl said:


> I did say no restrictions, didn't I? Both of them can use whatever force they can against the other, and that includes having access to the Kyuubi.


This is a stomp then, teleporting Kurama is too much for Itachi to handle.


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## Owl (Oct 1, 2013)

What part of "No Restrictions" did you not understand?


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> That means Itachi has access to Koto?
> 
> I think we know the victor.



how is that going to help him when he can't even use it?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Elia said:


> how is that going to help him when he can't even use it?



Your point?

Living Minato can't use the Kyuubi.


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## Coppur (Oct 1, 2013)

Owl said:


> What part of "No Restrictions" did you not understand?



The part that makes this thread one-sided, BM Minato is too much for Itachi, I thought we were going for a debate, not a stomp.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Why bring up this fandom war thread yet again. We all know the answer.
> 
> Minato fans think Minato wins.
> 
> ...



Well, this can be said with essentially any battle between two fairly evenly matched characters with even a small fandom to back them up. 

On topic, since this is sick Itachi, Minato should take it. Itachi really can't hit Minato with any of his arsenal, and Minato's chakra reserves are far superior to Itachi's, he can simply wait until Itachi cannot use his Mangekyō anymore, and then proceeds to take Itachi down.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Minato cannot use Kyuubi while alive. He has not the body for it. Only Uzumaki's have been shown capable of harboring the Kyuubi, and IIRC Minato said his body went numb from harboring it within him even before his soul got sucked out. His Edo body allows him not to feel any side effects.
> 
> Also Minato does have knowledge of via Hiruzen, so he knows that he was gifted, wise as a Kage, and that he slayed every Uchiha.



Lol, how silly is that? 
Sasuke was dying when Oro gave him his CS, does that mean he was not able to use it after that?
Also, alive itachi died after using his susanoo for 1m. 

- and he has knowledge via Naruto's eyes, as well.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Your point?
> 
> Living Minato can't use the Kyuubi.



living Minato had Kurama's chakra before his death by 1s, why would he even use it
in that situation?


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Elia said:


> Lol, how silly is that?
> Sasuke was dying when Oro gave him his CS, does that mean he was not able to use it afterword?
> Also, alive itachi died after using his susanoo for 1m.
> 
> - and he has knowledge via Naruto's eyes, as well.



The kyuubi is different. It is the single most chakra containing bjuu so much that even 50% of it dwarfs all other Bjuu. Minato does not have the body for it hence why it made him go numb. He may be able to move for a second or two, but overall it isn't worth it.

Sasuke did get paralyzed from CS, and was the 1/10 of people that could survive. CS =/ Kyuubi though so your comparison is flawed.

Itachi used Tsukuyomi twice, amaterasu enough to brun a katon jutsu and a forest, most of his base arsenal, taijutsu, and had a terminal illness. Despite that he fought Oro's strongest summon, tanked a Mountain buster, and still had time to walk slowly up to sasuke, block his sword, and a shotload of tags. 

Once again susano =/ Kyuubi, so............Try again.


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## Jagger (Oct 1, 2013)

Owl said:


> I did say no restrictions, didn't I? Both of them can use whatever force they can against the other, and that includes having access to the Kyuubi.


Minato calls his son for help. 

Checkmate, Itachi's fans. :ignoramus


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 1, 2013)

Elia said:


> living Minato had Kurama's chakra before his death by 1s, why would he even use it
> in that situation?



You're implying he could have tamed the fox (prior to death)? 

Nothing suggests his body can handle the massive chakra...


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Minato calls his son for help.
> 
> Checkmate, Itachi's fans. :ignoramus



Itachi reverse summons Sasuke. Who then tells Naruto he loves him. Naruto goes to make out with sasuke and gets a chidori to the neck. The two gang up on Minato with there Susano's G.G


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> The kyuubi is different. It is the single most chakra containing bjuu so much that even 50% of it dwarfs all other Bjuu. Minato does not have the body for it hence why it made him go numb. He may be able to move for a second or two, but overall it isn't worth it.
> 
> Sasuke did get paralyzed from CS, and was the 1/10 of people that could survive. CS =/ Kyuubi though so your comparison is flawed.
> 
> ...



- Lol, no. that's only because he sealed Kurama at that moment. It's not like if the pain will remain forever. And juts for your information the ET does NOT make the body stronger or anything. Naruto Also, was struggling and his skin burned when he used Kurama's chakra before controlling Kurama!

- No, he used small Amatersu and it's fire it's obviously will continue to burn things up
that does not mean itachi used all that amount of Amaterasu, please re-read that chapter. 

- oh, God help him with that kind of speed to hit Minato. :rofl:rofl

anyway, enough discussion for me today. You know how wrong are you deep in your heart 
I think that what does count.


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## Jagger (Oct 1, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Itachi reverse summons Sasuke. Who then tells Naruto he loves him. Naruto goes to make out with sasuke and gets a chidori to the neck. The two gang up on Minato with there Susano's G.G


BM Minato > Itachi and Sasuke. :ignoramus


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Elia said:


> - Lol, no. that's only because he sealed Kurama at that moment. It's not like if the pain will remain forever. And juts for your information the ET does NOT make the body stronger or anything. Naruto Also, was struggling and his skin burned when he used Kurama's chakra before controlling Kurama!
> 
> - No, he used small Amatersu and it's fire it's obviously will continue to burn things up
> that does not mean itachi used all that amount of Amaterasu, please re-read that chapter.
> ...



No his body cannot take the pain. Minato only haphazardly used it because Edo's feel no pain, and aren't affected biologically. OP banned ET, so shut up about it already.

-Naruto was a fucking baby and ate that shit. Then he was able to use TKB on his first try, it ain't shit bro. 

-He used a trail at sasuke, and burned up the whole Katon. So he used MS 4 times, barring his amazing performance via Susano. All that plus his base arsenal, and Cancer = Fucking Stamina/determination beast. All that isn;t needed here, because Itachi is uber effective, and conservative, when purposefully not trying to lose to his little brother as planned for years by him.

-Itachi used shunshin to get behind Bee, Minato needed FTG and was still figured out. You lose. 

Those who resort to Ad Hominem are trash. But those who use flawed logic and use Ad Hominem are worse then trash.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Portrayal guys think Kishi has placed Minato on a higher pedestal.



Based on what?


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> 50/50 chance for both. Now everyone shut the hell up, and go eat taco's.



I'm, no joke, eating tacos right now. No joke.

Taco Tuesday. On my way back from work.


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I'm, no joke, eating tacos right now. No joke.
> 
> Taco Tuesday. On my way back from work.



Bo$$ Life. I would expect nothing better from a fellow Itachi-ite.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

> =Dr. White;48593242]No his body cannot take the pain. Minato only haphazardly used it because Edo's feel no pain, and aren't affected biologically. OP banned ET, so shut up about it already.


Oh, really, and how then he moved to Naruto and made the seals and jump in front of Kurama's
claw to and was able to stop it. Anyway, it does not matter, so Itachi can't also use Susanoo (no as if it matters) for more than 1m. 


> -Naruto was a fucking baby and ate that shit. Then he was able to use TKB on his first try, it ain't shit bro.


What the hell are you talking about? Go look at his fight with Oro, or what Jman said to
what happened to Naruto. OR re-watch his fight with Sasuke at the VoTE. 


> -He used a trail at sasuke, and burned up the whole Katon. So he used MS 4 times, barring his amazing performance via Susano. All that plus his base arsenal, and Cancer = Fucking Stamina/determination beast. All that isn;t needed here, because Itachi is uber effective, and conservative, when purposefully not trying to lose to his little brother as planned for years by him.


yeah, as if that Katon was all that great in the first place. 





> -Itachi used shunshin to get behind Bee, Minato needed FTG and was still figured out. You lose.


and Nagato did not even use shunshin to get behind B, he obviously faster than both Itachi
and Minato
at detonation



> Those who resort to Ad Hominem are trash. But those who use flawed logic and use Ad Hominem are worse then trash.


thank you.


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> I beg to differ.



I don't. (See where this is going? )



> Itachi just... needs to look/point at you, while Minato tries to make physical contact.



Minato is faster than Ei, who is _comfortably_ above Itachi. Making physical contact isn't that difficult for him, and it never was. Ask Tobi. 



> And?
> Ei and MS Obito are similar to Minato, considering their abilities revolve around speed and one-dimensional attacks. Itachi has the full package: power and versatility.



I consider Obito & Ei of a higher tier collectively than Orochimaru & Ei.

 Ei would've ran up and punted off the heads of both Itachi's opponents, especially considering Orochimaru apparently couldn't regenerate. Obito would've pulled his Kamui shenanigans and warped them away.



> Minato never fought someone like Itachi, and 14-year-old Obito isn't the same; the guy is an imbecile.



Itachi never fought someone like Minato. 

The Masked Man was not an imbecile in the slightest, and the "they were worse back then" applies to Itachi's opponents as well.



> Not helpful in a genjutsu..



Genjutsu isn't helpful when your perceptual ability is overwhelmed. Like Sauce vs. Ei all over again..



> If we are going by manga knowledge, Itachi is aware of the threat Minato poses.
> On the other hand, Minato doesn't know very much about Itachi's prowess



Neither posses any specific knowledge. 



> Itachi is going to jump the gun before Minato. How much do you wanna bet?



Itachi isn't doing anything before Minato, let's make that clear. 

The Uchiha will die a brilliant, golden death.


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Based on what?



Alliance savior, twice.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Oct 1, 2013)

Lol, I thought this was finally settled with Minato as the victor. 

The buffs he got after being revived (in both base and KCM) are too much. Especially when it was pretty even and debatable beforehand.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Alliance savior, twice.



He's still doesn't put Hashirama to shame. He's still not as wise as Hiruzen. As a toddler. He still can't read people's souls. He's still not completely invincible. Itachi's the superest duperest portrayed ninja!​


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2013)

No restrictions as in BM Minato?

Minato warps a super bijuudama into itachi's general location GG.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Still not as great as Hashirama. Still not as wise as Hiruzen. Still can't read people's souls and use it in battle. Itachi's the superest duperest portrayed ninja there is, bra.​



based on what?


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## Quab (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm the biggest Minato fan ever, but I always hate to say it or think about it, Itachi wins.

In this battle Minato will either get tagged by Totsuka with a bunshin feint or Izanami'd (if Minato uses Kurama mode).  Itachi's skill, intellect, and precision alone trump Minato (Kurama or not).


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Elia said:


> based on what?



You know I know where those scans are


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> You know I know where those scans are



you were talking about Minato, or itachi? 
I believe you were talking about Minato, so yes, I'm wondering from where you will get those scans? 

Also, did not Hiruzen said he was naive? 



Quab said:


> I'm the biggest Minato fan ever, but I always hate to say it or think about it, Itachi wins.
> 
> In this battle Minato will either get tagged by Totsuka with a bunshin feint or Izanami'd (if Minato uses Kurama mode).  Itachi's skill, intellect, and precision alone trump Minato (Kurama or not).



itachi's wank is overwhelming. -_-


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2013)

Quab said:


> *I'm the biggest Minato fan ever,* but I always hate to say it or think about it, *Itachi wins.*
> 
> In this battle Minato will either get tagged by Totsuka with a bunshin feint or Izanami'd (if Minato uses Kurama mode).  Itachi's skill, intellect, and precision alone trump Minato (Kurama or not).


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Still not as great as Hashirama.



Hashirama is better offensively.

Minato is better defensively. 



> Still not as wise as Hiruzen.



Tsunade* 

Also, 7 =/= Toddler



> Still can't read people's souls and use it in battle



I dunno about you, but I'd prefer to have the ability to rush in and cut you in half before you can move, rather than Itachi's cute predictions. 



> Itachi's the superest duperest portrayed ninja there is, bra.]


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

So if I buy everyone taco's can we just agree that they are both his golden boys, and that they have a 50/50 chance to beat eachother using their great intellect, and hax?


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

We need this debate every once in a while. It's just so refreshing.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Hashirama is better offensively.
> 
> Minato is better defensively.



Minato is less great than Hashi... thus put even more to shame by Itachi. 



Rocky said:


> Tsunade*



+reps for the effort, but Hiruzen died before the raging granny came along.



Rocky said:


> I dunno about you, but I'd prefer to have the ability to rush in and cut you in half before you can move, rather than Itachi's cute predictions.







Rocky said:


>



That's not actually in the printed volumes


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## Krippy (Oct 1, 2013)

Itachi would defeat Alive Minato more times than not. Alive Minato doesn't have Yin Kurama so it's a non-factor. 

Their Edo versions are relatively even as well.



come at me rocky :ignoramus


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## Dr. White (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> We need this debate every once in a while. It's just so refreshing.



but Taco's.....


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## Csdabest (Oct 1, 2013)

Itachi can cast Genjutsu w/o eye contact. He points at Minato with his seal hand which his seal speed are already faster than the naked eye to the point sharingan cant even tract them. Minato has zzero genjutsu feats so he get raped by genjutsu. Even if Minato was to break out of it. Itachi already has his opening for Totsuka sealing. And Minato is not tagging Itachi with Hirashn.


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> You so bad. +reps





I believe It was revealed to the Hokage that Tsunade was running the village before Itachi was addressed.


Bee showed no indication of surprise to Itachi's flank, and succeeding in moving and reacting before Itachi could attack him.

Minato's dodging speed surprised Ei (a speed god), and Minato apparently would have servery injured Ei before he could move had Bee not interfered.

Minato's speed just flat out shat on Obito. He was surprised by it multiple times, and mostly helpless against it. 



> That's not actually in the printed volumes



No way.


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Itachi would defeat Alive Minato more times than not. Alive Minato doesn't have Yin Kurama so it's a non-factor.
> 
> Their Edo versions are relatively even as well.
> 
> ...



I think I'm just gonna stare at Catwomen's tits.

Um...Minato blitzes.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I believe It was revealed to the Hokage that Tsunade was running the village before Itachi was addressed.



_Dammit_, Tsunade.



Rocky said:


> Bee showed no indication of surprise to Itachi's flank, and succeeding in moving and reacting before Itachi could attack him.



Correction: he showed no knowledge of the flank until after Itachi's warning.



Rocky said:


> Minato's dodging speed surprised Ei (a speed god)



A bloodlusted A was intercepted by Bee, and saved by Bee back then too 



Rocky said:


> Minato's speed just flat out shat on Obito. He was surprised by it multiple times, and mostly helpless against it.



They were charging at one another evenly, IIRC.

Obito even had Minato in chains at one point.


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Correction: he showed no knowledge of the flank until after Itachi's warning.



It's not like talking impeded Itachi's combat speed. Bee was still able to take physical action in preventing Itachi from attacking him.

IIRC, Bee said something along the lines of "on it!" anyway, which could easily mean he didn't need the warning.



> A bloodlusted A was intercepted by Bee, and saved by Bee back then too



Bee intercepted suppressed Ei, or v1. Bee's saving of Ei was an interception feat. Minato has cool interception feats too. 

We get a scan of the "so fast!" Kurama punching Kushina, and in between panels Minato teleported in, realized Kurama was in the middle of attacking them, grabbed Kushina, and completely avoided with the body flicker. That's one of the best speed feats I've seen in this Manga.



> They were charging at one another evenly, IIRC.
> 
> Obito even had Minato in chains at one point.



Then Minato started attacking with Hiraishin, and Obito lasted like 5 seconds.


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## Krippy (Oct 1, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I think I'm just gonna stare at Catwomen's tits.
> 
> Um...*Itachi* blitzes.



great success :ignoramus


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## Rocky (Oct 1, 2013)

Sasuke fans don't like Itachi Krip. Get your shit together.


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## Bonly (Oct 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Why bring up this fandom war thread yet again. We all know the answer.
> 
> Minato fans think Minato wins.
> 
> ...



Basically this in a nutshell although I had to fix a part for better accuracy


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## Ghost (Oct 2, 2013)

Itachi holds the knowledge advantage. Minato isn't getting his kunais anywhere near to Itachi due to inferior weapon skills and he doesn't have the raw speed to blitz Itachi.

Minato hasn't shown any genjutsu resistance so far and he was staring at Obito's eyes during their fight. Layered genjutsu + Amaterasu should do it.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 2, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> So Minato knows nothing then, and Itachi has a decided knowledge advantage? okay.
> 
> At any rate, does Minato have access to the Kyuubi? The answer to that question is the answer to whether or not Minato wins.



Knowledge didn't help Obito or A. 

Access to Kurama only determines how easily Minato wins. It doesn't determine whether or not he wins at all.


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## Kai (Oct 2, 2013)

Minato is the sensei of Itachi's mentor and defeated who Itachi could not stop.

Or

We've seen Hiraishin get rid of Amaterasu even after contact is made. Putting the fastest shinobi in the manga in a visual genjutsu isn't going to happen. Minato strategically places kunai and/or seals near Itachi if Susano'o is activated and warps inside once Itachi steps within proximity of a formula. Furthermore, beyond all of that the longer the fight lasts the weaker Itachi becomes from deterioration on his eyes and noticeably exhaust his chakra, which is for sure less than Minato's.


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## Ersa (Oct 2, 2013)

Minato can't use the Kyuubi when he's not Edo.

Living Minato takes down Itachi high difficulty.

Edo Minato > Edo Itachi >= Minato > Itachi is how I've always seen it.

He needs to be able to camp Susanoo to handle Minato's S/T hax.


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## Baroxio (Oct 2, 2013)

Kai said:


> Minato is the sensei of Itachi's mentor and defeated who Itachi could not stop.
> 
> Or
> 
> We've seen Hiraishin get rid of Amaterasu even after contact is made. Putting the fastest shinobi in the manga in a visual genjutsu isn't going to happen. Minato strategically places kunai and/or seals near Itachi if Susano'o is activated and warps inside once Itachi steps within proximity of a formula. Furthermore, beyond all of that the longer the fight lasts the weaker Itachi becomes from deterioration on his eyes and noticeably exhaust his chakra, which is for sure less than Minato's.


A.) When was it said that Tobi was Itachi's mentor, exactly? I've seen it brought up by other people before but for the life of me I don't remember where it is, so scans would be appreciated.

B.) Minato stopped Tobi for a single night, and lost his life doing so, as well as the lives of Kushina, Hiruzen's wife, Iruka's parents and countless other Konoha Shinobi, while Tobi still lived on. In contrast, the mere *threat *of facing Itachi was enough to keep Tobi's hands off the village for a full decade even as Itachi's physical condition deteriorated due to disease.

That is to say, while Itachi can defeat MS Tobi in a prolonged confrontation due to the use of In-Character-faster-than-Sharingan-sight clone replacements (that can explode) hard countering Tobi's Kamui warp, in the manga Tobi has no reason to stay and face Itachi in a one-on-one when he can just warp away at any point and return with the full Akatsuki backing him up. 

But Tobi feared Itachi's abilities enough to prevent such a waste of valuable personnel, so the fact that Tobi, with this huge advantage, was restricted from attacking Konoha for 10 years really portrays Itachi as the stronger one yet again.

C.) "Putting the fastest shinobi in the manga in a visual genjutsu isn't going to happen" Kind of a baseless assertion considering Itachi has caught all of his previous opponents in genjutsu, including top tier speedsters like Killer Bee, who outright reacted to a Hirashin blitz twice. Then there's the fact that Ei's speed is higher than Minato's (not counting Hirashin) yet he was fairly easily caught in genjutsu by Madara, who does not specialize in genjutsu like itachi does and has way fewer means to cast genjutsu than Itachi does. Means of casting genjutsu that, mind you, Minato has absolutely no knowledge of (finger genjutsu, Crow genjutsu etc.). So the empirical evidence supports a claim of Itachi catching Minato in a genjutsu, after which the battle is essentially over, since itachi can automatically follow it up with one of his many nigh-instantaneous OHKOs (Amaterasu, Totsuka).


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## ThunderCunt (Oct 2, 2013)

Has any higher tier Kages level candidates ever fall prey of Genjutsu?
may be this discussion needs another thread. 
Only very high level Genjutsu like Iznagi and Iznami and/or Koto are effective against these candidates.
Is Tsukuyomi effective against likes of Minato, Hiruzen, Hashirama, Tobirama? Or even Tsunade, Raikage, Onoki or Gai?


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## Kai (Oct 2, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> A.) When was it said that Tobi was Itachi's mentor, exactly? I've seen it brought up by other people before but for the life of me I don't remember where it is, so scans would be appreciated.






			
				Baroxio said:
			
		

> B.) Minato stopped Tobi for a single night, and lost his life doing so, as well as the lives of Kushina, Hiruzen's wife, Iruka's parents and countless other Konoha Shinobi, while Tobi still lived on. In contrast, the mere *threat *of facing Itachi was enough to keep Tobi's hands off the village for a full decade even as Itachi's physical condition deteriorated due to disease.


Minato accomplished much more than Itachi in all likelihood could have done, given Itachi's unfavorable standstill against Tobi.



			
				Baroxio said:
			
		

> That is to say, while Itachi can defeat MS Tobi in a prolonged confrontation due to the use of In-Character-faster-than-Sharingan-sight clone replacements (that can explode) hard countering Tobi's Kamui warp, in the manga Tobi has no reason to stay and face Itachi in a one-on-one when he can just warp away at any point and return with the full Akatsuki backing him up.


Being backed up by the full Akatsuki isn't even a factor weighed in by either side considering Tobi did admit he would be dead if he did not keep a few secrets from Itachi.

Tobi has always personally made sure he was one step above Itachi throughout Itachi's life in Akatsuki. Akatsuki has nothing to do with the secrets he's kept in the dark in order to maintain a favorable position over Itachi in their game of chess.



			
				Baroxio said:
			
		

> But Tobi feared Itachi's abilities enough to prevent such a waste of valuable personnel, so the fact that Tobi, with this huge advantage, was restricted from attacking Konoha for 10 years really portrays Itachi as the stronger one yet again.


Tobi never feared Itachi's abilities into leaving Konoha alone, he feared what Itachi knew as an accomplice and double agent within his organization.

Tobi never showed he was weary of Itachi's fighting ability in the manga. 



			
				Baroxio said:
			
		

> C.) "Putting the fastest shinobi in the manga in a visual genjutsu isn't going to happen" Kind of a baseless assertion considering Itachi has caught all of his previous opponents in genjutsu, including top tier speedsters like Killer Bee, who outright reacted to a Hirashin blitz twice. Then there's the fact that Ei's speed is higher than Minato's (not counting Hirashin) yet he was fairly easily caught in genjutsu by Madara, who does not specialize in genjutsu like itachi does and has way fewer means to cast genjutsu than Itachi does. Means of casting genjutsu that, mind you, Minato has absolutely no knowledge of (finger genjutsu, Crow genjutsu etc.). So the empirical evidence supports a claim of Itachi catching Minato in a genjutsu, after which the battle is essentially over, since itachi can automatically follow it up with one of his many nigh-instantaneous OHKOs (Amaterasu, Totsuka).


Madara held down A in order to put him in genjutsu, I thought that was fairly common knowledge.

The difference between Minato and A in this case is that it's impossible to hold down a S/T user who relies on teleportation, not physical movement.


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## Ersa (Oct 2, 2013)

initpidzero said:


> Has any higher tier Kages level candidates ever fall prey of Genjutsu?
> may be this discussion needs another thread.
> Only very high level Genjutsu like Iznagi and Iznami and/or Koto are effective against these candidates.
> Is Tsukuyomi effective against likes of Minato, Hiruzen, Hashirama, Tobirama? Or even Tsunade, Raikage, Onoki or Gai?


Tsukiyomi not high level genjutsu?  Only MS/EMS users, Rinnegan users and potentially top tiers like Hashirama are immune.

KCM Naruto who is stronger than most of that list was worried about Tsukiyomi. Ei got mindfucked by normal Sharingan genjutsu, how do you think he fares against a powered up version cast by MS that lasts for days by someone who is equal if not better than Madara in genjutsu? Onoki and Gai are one-shotted if they're caught.

DB and Zetsu hyped it to be one of the most potent genjutsu ever.

Minato is screwed if he's caught, catching him is the problem however.


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## Hossaim (Oct 2, 2013)

Itachi uses Koto GG
Itachi points GG
Itachi looks at him GG

Minato is fast but he can't literally run faster than Itachi can look at him/point at him. He would need to throw a kunai, in the time it takes him to lift his hand Itachi alos lifts his hand, Minato genjutsu'd for even a second dealy gives Itachi the opening to Tsukyomi and then it's done.

This thread has been done a million times and the winner is clear every time.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 2, 2013)

I don't see Itachi beating a Hiraishin blitz. Especially when Minato can make clones to bait Itachi. On top of that ITT he has Kurama.


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## ThunderCunt (Oct 2, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Tsukiyomi not high level genjutsu?  Only MS/EMS users, Rinnegan users and potentially top tiers like Hashirama are immune.
> 
> KCM Naruto who is stronger than most of that list was worried about Tsukiyomi. Ei got mindfucked by normal Sharingan genjutsu, how do you think he fares against a powered up version cast by MS that lasts for days by someone who is equal if not better than Madara in genjutsu? Onoki and Gai are one-shotted if they're caught.
> 
> ...



The Key here is* if Caught*. Naruto seems to have no experience countering the genjutsu as of now. Tobirama has fought his entire life with Uchihas. I am inclined to believe some of them would definitely have higher Genjutsu skills and he knows how to encounter it. Ei was probably caught off guard or something. 
Gosh, I donno what point I am trying to make here since kishimoto's showing of which users which jutsu works and fails against which user is so damn inconsistent that is really hard to deduce this until the actual event happens.
May be minato might get genjutsu but I am highly inclined to believe that kishi wont let that happen.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 2, 2013)

Itachi has no sensing capabilities... ITT especially that will mess him up considering base Minato is pretty fast, KCM Minato is faster and BM Minato is even faster. In other words if he doesn't pay attention to Minato he'd lost almost instantly... this scenario is possible given that Minato can use Kage Bunshins.


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## Ghost (Oct 2, 2013)

Izanami should work on Minato? It wasn't stated that people who accept themselves (or whatever the shit was) cannot be caught in it, they just can escape it.


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## John Sheppard (Oct 2, 2013)

Itachi takes this.


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## Ƶero (Oct 2, 2013)

Minato wins mid diff at most.

If this is KCM/BM Minato.

Minato fodderises him.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 2, 2013)

Really not seeing how itachi takes this. God shunshin+FTG outpace itachi to the point where genjutsu is almost a joke. Madara needed like 5 extra combatants to put A in one and he is lightwork compared to minato when it comes to speed. Add in teleporting clones for extra confusion and itachi getting a hit is just not a logical possibility. 

Minato outlast a slit the sick shinobi's neck wide open. This is not getting into susanoo chakra being suspectible to FTG which would create gaps for minato to rape itachi. If itachi gets tagged then the match is over. Obito got hit 4 times in a row without being able to activate a single kamui lol. Minato is too fast.


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## Trojan (Oct 2, 2013)

^

Itachi's fans are trolls, that's all.


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## sanninme rikudo (Oct 2, 2013)

what you guys arent understanding is that yata along with totsuka is an unstoppable force


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## Rocky (Oct 2, 2013)

sanninme rikudo said:


> what you guys arent understanding is that yata along with totsuka is an unstoppable force



The brightness of Minato's Colgate Smile is equally unstoppable.


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## Ersa (Oct 2, 2013)

initpidzero said:


> The Key here is* if Caught*. Naruto seems to have no experience countering the genjutsu as of now. Tobirama has fought his entire life with Uchihas. I am inclined to believe some of them would definitely have higher Genjutsu skills and he knows how to encounter it. Ei was probably caught off guard or something.
> Gosh, I donno what point I am trying to make here since kishimoto's showing of which users which jutsu works and fails against which user is so damn inconsistent that is really hard to deduce this until the actual event happens.
> May be minato might get genjutsu but I am highly inclined to believe that kishi wont let that happen.


That's extremely poor logic.

Kishimoto can't make techniques like Tsukiyomi catch a whole heap of people because it would end the fight too quickly and make Itachi fights boring. Naruto knows not to look at the eyes, he's had some experience fighting Uchiha and what he lacks in experience he makes up with power. KCM Naruto can solo the Gokage with 13 Kage-killing clones and he still fears Tsukiyomi. 

Just because a character knows not to do something doesn't mean he can always keep doing it. Tobirama knows not to look at the eyes; what if he busts a clone with Hiraishin, looks up and sees Itachi's MS? Clones feints can help Itachi ensnare people who don't want to look at his eyes or forcefully restrain  them with Susanoo (which forms faster then Itachi can move) and then put them under.

It's like saying TBB can't kill Kages because it hasn't killed any Kage level and guess what? Any Kage hit by TBB is ending up as paste on the floor.

Granted Tsukiyomi won't come into play against Minato unless it goes down to battle of pure attrition in which Minato would win.


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## ReverseZero12 (Oct 2, 2013)

Is this sick itachi? Minato definitely takes this. Itachi is limited to 3 MS techniques at a time due to his stamina and susanoo cannot be maintained for too long. I don't really see how itachi could take on minato with his huge disadvantages.


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## Elite Uchiha (Oct 3, 2013)

Base Minato > Itachi

Kcm Minato >>>> Itachi


BM Minato >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Itachi.


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## Dr. White (Oct 3, 2013)

lol at Elite Uchiha.

More like 
BM Minato >= Edo Itachi(pending on if Bjuudama can bust Yata)> Minato = Itachi


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> lol at Elite Uchiha.
> 
> More like
> BM Minato >= Edo Itachi(pending on if Bjuudama can bust Yata)> Minato = Itachi






			
				Dr.White's Tier list said:
			
		

> -Edo Minato(w/ KCM)
> -EMS Madara w/ Kyuubi
> 
> -Minato/Edo Itachi



And this is presumably before Minato revealed BIjuu Mode, as you list it as KCM? 

Bijuu Mode Minato would destroy any form of Itachi with no difficulty whatsoever.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2013)

Itachi'd beat BM Minato.


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## Trojan (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> lol at Elite Uchiha.
> 
> More like
> BM Minato >= Edo Itachi(pending on if Bjuudama can bust Yata)> Minato = Itachi





<<< that's gif is just too good it works in every situation. lol


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## ReverseZero12 (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> lol at Elite Uchiha.
> 
> More like
> BM Minato >=* Edo Itachi(pending on if Bjuudama can bust Yata)> Minato* = Itachi



I think it can go either way with minato and edo itachi. I mean edo itachi doesn't have his stamina issues which makes him far stronger than while he was alive but he still has to deal with minato's arsenal which will be tough on itachi's part.


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## Ersa (Oct 3, 2013)

Bijuu Mode Minato is a good deal stronger than Edo Itachi, KCM is much less so, he has a tonne more stamina and perhaps a bit more speed (based on feats) than his base form who I'd consider Edo Itachi's equal but lacks the firepower to bust Yata combined with Susanoo. I still think he's stronger then Edo Itachi but the gap isn't enormous.

Living Itachi can't really compete in this regard, base Minato should beat him high difficulty.


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## ThunderCunt (Oct 3, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> That's extremely poor logic.
> 
> Kishimoto can't make techniques like Tsukiyomi catch a whole heap of people because it would end the fight too quickly and make Itachi fights boring. Naruto knows not to look at the eyes, he's had some experience fighting Uchiha and what he lacks in experience he makes up with power. KCM Naruto can solo the Gokage with 13 Kage-killing clones and he still fears Tsukiyomi.
> 
> ...


Poor logic you say? oh well
The text in bold makes no sense whatsoever. That is a double negative. 
As I understand correctly, if you have enough skill to evade some attack you can continue doing so until unless you run out of stamina or you make a mistake. High level shinobis never seem to make mistakes because Kishi have shown it that way. 
I really don't buy the fact that a clone can force someone to fall prey of something like Genjutsu.

Again what is TBB?  I really have no interest in contesting that point.

You can possibly kill any living being(including shinobis) with Shuriken, Kunai, Sword or if you are strong as Tsunade a punch might be enough, but that does neither prove that these tools can be called end effectors for making you a paste nor they can be said to be completely useless.
Lastly, I understand what you are saying(most of it) but I respectfully beg to differ from your opinion or deduction for that matter.


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## Baroxio (Oct 3, 2013)

TBB= Tailed Beast Ball, i.e. Bijuudama

As for the bolded, I believe what the author was trying to say was more along the lines of:

"Just because a character knows not to do something doesn't mean he can always keep *NOT *doing it."

Which would be a triple negative, but should still work out.


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## ThunderCunt (Oct 3, 2013)

Seriously I should have stayed out of this thread.


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## Dr. White (Oct 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> And this is presumably before Minato revealed BIjuu Mode, as you list it as KCM?
> 
> Bijuu Mode Minato would destroy any form of Itachi with no difficulty whatsoever.



That was when I thought Kishi was going to be consistent and show Minato's base speed being multiplied by like a thousand making him nigh FTG speed with using Hirashin. Then I was proven wrong, and haven't updated my list so far.


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## Garcher (Oct 3, 2013)

genjutsu + kunai gg

easy one for Itachi


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## Enki (Oct 3, 2013)

Alive Fodder King Itachi < Alive Barbie Minato >=< Edo Fodder King Itachi < Edo Barbie Minato.

Minato wins this mid diff at max.


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## ReverseZero12 (Oct 3, 2013)

initpidzero said:


> Seriously I should have stayed out of this thread.



You should see Itachi Vs Minato threads on narutobase. They are so bad, they will make you want to tear off your hair. I've debated with itachi fanboys there so much, never again will I do such a thing.


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> That was when I thought Kishi was going to be consistent and show Minato's base speed being multiplied by like a thousand making him nigh FTG speed with using Hirashin.



He is. I'm not exactly sure what you wanted him to show though considering his opponent was Jubito. Minato getting the Kyuubi Avatar solidifies Itachi's inferiority.


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## Lawrence777 (Oct 3, 2013)

The fight's always been determined by whether or not Minato gets genjutsu'd. It still is determined by whether or not he gets genjutsu'd. No new feats from either side has changed that being the deciding factor.


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## Dr. White (Oct 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> He is. I'm not exactly sure what you wanted him to show though considering his opponent was Jubito. Minato getting the Kyuubi Avatar solidifies Itachi's inferiority.



Fuck has Minato done minus TBB that he couldn't alive? Base Naruto went from < Sasuke in speed to > V2 Ei in speed. Was also capable of outpacing Bjuu bombs and deflecting multiple in under a couple seconds. Show me a scan of Minato doing anything close. He should be severly outpacing everyone, yet couldn't save his son, and had to let Hiruzen gain an interception feat.

Yata and Totsuka beg to differ. and they are actually part of his power


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Yata and Totsuka beg to differ. and they are actually part of his power



Minato being a perfect Jinchuriki means Yin Kurama is also part of his power.


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Fuck has Minato done minus TBB that he couldn't alive? Base Naruto went from < Sasuke in speed to > V2 Ei in speed. Was also capable of outpacing Bjuu bombs and deflecting multiple in under a couple seconds. Show me a scan of Minato doing anything close. He should be severly outpacing everyone, yet couldn't save his son, and had to let Hiruzen gain an interception feat.



Ah, a feat whore. 

Listen, Minato's not going to go around speedblitzing Jubito to death. If you were expecting that, then you're kidding yourself. Currently, Bijuu Mode Naruto & Sasuke are fighting at the exact same speed. So are they equal? No, they aren't. Use some common sense.



> Yata and Totsuka beg to differ. and they are actually part of his power



Minato dances around those just as he danced around v2 Ei _without _the Kyuubi Chakra.


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## Owl (Oct 14, 2013)

Bumping for epic justice! Why did you guys stop? Aren't you guys going to continue?


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2013)

Minato - 23

Itachi -18

Draw - 2


The people have spoken.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 14, 2013)

The winner of this battle will be decided by two things:

1. Whether or not Itachi can catch Minato in Tsukuyomi before he runs out of chakra

and

2. Kishimoto's preference.


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## trance (Oct 14, 2013)

Base Minato vs. Itachi can go either way.

KCM Minato vs. Itachi is Minato's win via low-mid difficulty.

BM Minato vs. Itachi is Minato's win via godstomp.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 15, 2013)

Yay!

We get to continue the endless cycle that is Itachi vs. Minato.

Seriously, what the hell's the point?

This is an endless debate. It will never change. *Ever.* Minato fans say Minato. Itachi fans say Itachi.

And *everyone* is tired of this thread.


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> Yay!
> 
> We get to continue the endless cycle that is Itachi vs. Minato.
> 
> ...



before the War Arc, even itachi's fans themselves think it can go either way and they are more or
less equal. (/except the extremist biased of Itachi's fans.)

in the War Arc, Minato got

1- Clones. 
2- KCM
3- BM
4- TBB
5- HUGE Rasengan
6- the Sun barrier
7- Goshun Mawashi 

and his long named jutsu

as you can see this is a MASSIVE power up. However, somehow by a miracle the different
between the two never changed in the eyes of itachi's fans. 

perhaps obito succeeded to put them in his dream, or they are only too delusion and   don't
have the courage that needed to accept the reality.


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2013)

Komnenos likes Minato now.

We have won.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> before the War Arc, even itachi's fans themselves think it can go either way and they are more or
> less equal. (/except the extremist biased of Itachi's fans).


Maybe all the people saying Minato is stronger are extremely biased Minato fans.


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## johnsuwey (Oct 17, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> So Minato knows nothing then, and Itachi has a decided knowledge advantage? okay.
> 
> At any rate, does Minato have access to the Kyuubi? The answer to that question is the answer to whether or not Minato wins.



No, its not, because Minato rapes either way.


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