# God Tier is Overrated



## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Im making this thread to address one of the biggest misconceptions in the NBD. Many posters seem to believe there is some massive gap between even the weakest “God Tier”, which in many’s opinion is Juubito, and other very strong characters like Hashirama, Pre Juubi Madara, and so on. However this is largely contradicted by the Manga and will only continue to be contradicted further as the Boruto series continues.

So let me flesh out why it’s contradicted. First ask yourself do you consider the Boruto Gokage to be vastly above the level of Hashirama or even BSM Naruto? Because we saw Kuro, Chojuro, Darui, and Gaara all take on Ootsuki who are stronger then Juubito... We even saw Chojuro and Kuro largely have an ootsuki defeated by themselves with minor assistance from Sasuke. And even if you want to write that off as Kodachi trolling. The script for the Boruto movie is written by Kishimoto which has a similar event occur.

Likewise Kishi wrote Naruto Gaiden where we have Uchiha Shin take on Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke fairly successfully; and despite the excuse that they were a bit rusty and had to protect the kids they still are above Juubito in strength and we’re pressured by a guy who literally no one on this forum thinks is close to Hashirama in power.

We then have the recent example of Delta who was able to pressure Adult Naruto. He was holding back at different times, but still this is the weakest member of Kara who mark my words will end up getting taken out again by “non god tier” characters who are likely bellow Hashirama. Also when stronger Kara members get taken out by Gokage, Sarada, Mitsuki, and shit are you all still going to pretend there is some massive gap between “God Tier” and “Non God Tiers”? Are you prepared to be proved laughably wrong by the Boruto Manga again and again?

And before you say lol Boruto (despite kishi consulting on it), this is present in the original Manga as well. Looking at Tobirama whose weaker then Hashirama and even more so with his abilities lowered as an Edo. Was able to counter and land multiple blows on a “God Tier” Obito. And he didn’t fail to do damage due to any lack of skill or ability but simply due to Obito being immune to any none Senjutsu attack. We also see BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke keeping pace with Obito multiple times and even overpower him in their final struggle (Yeah I know his heart was wavering or whatever excuse you want to give that still wouldn’t make a major difference), and even the most wanked out estimate of them wouldn’t place as “God Tier”. And we also have the now infamous Madara statement where he said he could take Juubito, with Hashirama leftover Senjutsu.

——

Now don’t get me wrong there are Major differences between “God Tiers” and “Non God Tiers”, but the biggest one seems to simply be a matter of physical ability. God Tiers are extremely fast to the point where we twice saw Minato with upgrades (SM and KCM) attempt to attack them only to get blitzed instead. Considering Base Minato stood as the pinnacle of speed for most of the manga this is an enormous difference. But like it or not, right after showing this Kishimoto showed there are a number of Non-God Tier characters that could still keep pace in speed with God Tiers; I’ve mentioned many of them above and this is likely to expand even more so as the Boruto Manga continues.

So while yes they fodder fuck a lot of characters based on speed alone due to Minato being the past standard, many Non God Tiers are now being scaled above Minato, so that doesn’t equal a huge gap.

The other way that you can say God Tiers are way ahead of Non God Tiers, is Raw Power. I’ve heard people place some God Tiers at Continental+ to Planetary. But since when was this Manga DBZ? Throughout the manga we’ve constantly seen characters with massive raw power get shit on by characters with unique Jutsu and abilities.

Best example of this is Deidara his raw power is higher then 90% of the Non-God Tier character yet he lost to Hebi-Sasuke, and just think where does he sit on most Tier lists... Low-Kage maybe Mid if he’s lucky. In-Fact Rasa is another example where he’s shown a Gold Dust Tsunami that exceeds the raw power of 90% of the Non-God Tiers too. Yet he was defeated by Orochimaru with less difficulty then he had with Old Hiruzen whose lower in Raw power then most Kages. And again where does he sit on Tier lists, most of the time as thee weakest Kage lol

God Tiers are no exception to this ether Kinshiki despite being planetary according to one of the Databooks, though even disregarding that he clashed evenly with Sasuke and cut down the God Tree in Kishomoto original draft of Boruto Movie. Still got fucked over by Chojuro Bone Sealing art; and Kuro cement sealing. Even fused Momoshiki in the Manga had his movements stopped by Gaara sand, and that’s literally the strongest God Tier we’ve seen (or second strongest if you want to wank Kaguya). This also isn’t to downgrade someone like Gaara obviously he’s improved greatly since then original series and so have the other Gokage but are they even continental in power let alone planetary lol, fuck no.

That stuff just doesn’t matter in the Narutoverse as much as in other Manga; as Raw power will always be overcome by Skill and Technique, which is what actually makes the Naruto universe fun, as so much depends on match up, knowledge, and tactics rather then raw might.

——-

In conclusion the gap between “God Tier” may seem large to some people on this board to the extend where any “None God Tier” is fodder before them, even the strongest ones like the founders, but these people are just going to constantly be made a mockery off by the Boruto series and not because “God Tiers” have been suddenly scaled down (though I do agree physical abilities got nonsensically scaled up for Non God Tiers) but because the gap was never that large to begin with.

/End Rant

Reactions: Like 3


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

Everyone is overrated except for Hashirama, Tobirama, and Asspulldara. They are criminally underrated...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

You can't claim things like "GOD TIER IS OVERRATED" and then say that Hashirama is RSM Naruto tier

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grinningfox (Apr 20, 2019)

....


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Hashirama admitted that a retarded Obito who has no control over his Jubi chakra, can not coordinate his attacks, has only chakra arms and 2 Truth Seekers that don't even apply InYoton, was stronger than him.

Base RSM Naruto not even powering up with KCM, clowned pre Shinju JJ Madara (and no, Madara already healed from night guy as he said so himself). And that Madara was stated to be much stronger than JJ Obito.

Edo Madara also stated that he'd love to see the Edo Hokage beg for mercy in front of Obito, implying a huge gap in power. And that was before Obito even powered up.

Base RSM Naruto > Pre Shinju JJ Madara >> JJ Obito >>> retarded JJ Obito >>> the 4 Edo Hokages >> Hashirama.

Lol.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> Hashirama admitted that a retarded Obito who has no control over his Jubi chakra, can not coordinate his attacks, has only chakra arms and 2 Truth Seekers that don't even apply InYoton, was stronger than him.
> 
> Base RSM Naruto not even powering up with KCM, clowned pre Shinju JJ Madara (and no, Madara already healed from night guy as he said so himself). And that Madara was stated to be much stronger than JJ Obito.
> 
> ...


Edo Hashirama admitting inferiority doesn’t mean he’s massively inferior that’s where your logic starts to go wrong

But I’m curious where you rank Boruto Gokage, Shin, and Delta


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


> You can't claim things like "GOD TIER IS OVERRATED" and then say that Hashirama is RSM Naruto tier


Just did, deal with it


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Edo Hashirama admitting inferiority doesn’t mean he’s massively inferior that’s where your logic starts to go wrong
> 
> But I’m curious where you rank Boruto Gokage, Shin, and Delta


Both of them are dead if they were alive right there. Juubito did that with the utmost of ease too. Neg diff.


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Just did, deal with it


I am kinda getting worried, are you sure you haven't sustained any serious head injury?


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I am kinda getting worried, are you sure you haven't sustained any serious head injury?


Sometimes I wonder that too when I read your posts

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Both of them are dead if they were alive right there. Juubito did that with the utmost of ease too. Neg diff.


Literally scaling Hashirama to his wood clone , just stop...

And Tobirama intentionally did so to trade hits with Obito and mark him


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Sometimes I wonder that too when I read your posts


 I hope you get the help you need.


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## Grinningfox (Apr 20, 2019)

This is getting out of hand


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


> I hope you get the help you need.


Yeah me too aka you becoming a better poster, and offering up real arguments instead of personal attacks


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## King1 (Apr 20, 2019)




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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Grinningfox said:


> This is getting out of hand


I agree we got people scaling Hashirama to a wood clone to justify their nonsense, pretty dam ridiculous


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## Grinningfox (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I agree we got people scaling Hashirama to a wood clone to justify their nonsense, pretty dam ridiculous



Not them(tho that’s a bad argument)

You


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Literally scaling Hashirama to his wood clone , just stop...
> 
> And Tobirama intentionally did so to trade hits with Obito and mark him


I can keep the scans coming, bro 
"Even if you reabsorb your dopplegangers, you're no match!"


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> I can keep the scans coming, bro
> "Even if you reabsorb your dopplegangers, you're no match!"


Stronger doesn’t equal way stronger


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## Sorin (Apr 20, 2019)

What the fuck did I just read?


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Grinningfox said:


> Not them(tho that’s a bad argument)
> 
> You


So I write a well thought out post and I get personal attacks and Hashirama being scaled to a wood clone as a response. And it’s me not them, really think about that for awhile. Whether you disagree with my stance or otherwise


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Edo Hashirama admitting inferiority doesn’t mean he’s massively inferior that’s where your logic starts to go wrong


I already explained why he is massively inferior in my post.

Full power JJ Obito >> retarded JJ Obito >> the 4 Hokage >> lonesome Hashirama.


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## Grinningfox (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So I write a well thought out post and I get personal attacks and Hashirama being scaled to a wood clone as a response. And it’s me not them, really think about that for awhile. Whether you disagree with my stance or otherwise



This post doesn’t require any of us to go on some long winded diatribe becuase of one simple fact

Juubito dust any top tier low diff if he’s bloodlusted

Whether in physicals 

Raw Power

Or Hax


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> I already explained why he is massively inferior in my post.
> 
> Full power JJ Obito >> retarded JJ Obito >> the 4 Hokage >> lonesome Hashirama.


Juubito being > Hokage barrier doesn’t mean he’s greater then all the Hokage combined. Later Tobirama even puts up a better fight by himself then the combine barrier did. 

The Hokage barrier was fighting Juubito with raw power, which obviously they are going to loose.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Grinningfox said:


> This post doesn’t require any of us to go on some long winded diatribe becuase of one simple fact
> 
> Juubito dust any top tier low diff if he’s bloodlusted
> 
> ...


Do you understand that’s not an argument? Do you understand that I provided clear examples of “Top Tiers” not being dusted by stronger characters. And Bloodlusted isn’t even the standard mindset in the manga or the NBD, so that has zero relevance outside of those specific matches

Reactions: Like 2


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Stronger doesn’t equal way stronger


Soooo you didn't look at the entirety of the scan? Good to know.

Tobirama says "*Even if you reabsorb your remaining clones, you're no match, elder brother!" 
*
"No match for" typically means you're out of your league, no? That's Tobirama making an observation and Hashirama *agreeing *with him that even if he was back to full strength, he can't even compete with Juubito. 

And you have the gall to talk about denial in the other thread

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grinningfox (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Do you understand that’s not an argument? Do you understand that I provided clear examples of “Top Tiers” not being dusted by stronger characters. And Bloodlusted isn’t even the standard mindset in the manga or the NBD, so that has zero relevance outside of those specific matches



Those” top tier moments” are PIS


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Soooo you didn't look at the entirety of the scan? Good to know.
> 
> Tobirama says "*Even if you reabsorb your remaining clones, you're no match, elder brother!"
> *
> ...


First off all Edo Hashirama even with his clones absorbed isn’t full power Hashirama.

And Tobirama despite those words and knowing he’s stronger then Hashirama right after that believes he can defeat Obito with his Tandem Explosive tags. He was wrong but that still demonstrates that he obviously didn’t equate Hashirama being no match for Obito to Obito being so vastly above them that they stood no chance of victory.

So the most natural interpretation of that statement is that he’s again just saying Obito is stronger then Edo Hashirama by an unknown amount.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Grinningfox said:


> Those” top tier moments” are PIS


So your only argument for over a dozen examples is PIS and then your going to call someone else crazy for disagreeing with you. Think again about how fair that style of discussion is and get back to me...


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So the most natural interpretation of that statement is that he’s again just saying Obito is stronger then Edo Hashirama by an *unknown *amount.


Ah I see you are finally admitting that you are using headcanon for most of the arguments ITT. Good to know you are not as sure about this yourself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Ah I see you are finally admitting that you are using headcanon for most of the arguments ITT. Good to know you are not as sure about this yourself.


Literally don’t even know how your getting that.


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## goombanthime (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Edo Hashirama admitting inferiority doesn’t mean he’s massively inferior that’s where your logic starts to go wrong
> 
> But I’m curious where you rank Boruto Gokage, Shin, and Delta


Juubito effortlessly broke Hashirama strongest sealing justu and easily broke a barrier made by the four hokage in the chapter he was introduce, just stop

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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> So the most natural interpretation of that statement is that he’s again just saying Obito is stronger then Edo Hashirama by an *unknown amount.*





Turrin said:


> Literally don’t even know how your getting that.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Literally don’t even know how your getting that.


Because even you don't know how strong alive Hashi is compared to Edo, we actually have a statement saying they are *close* to full-power, yet you don't even know by how much and you are using this argument as a fact *EVEN THOUGH* *YOU ARE NOT EVEN SURE  OF THAT YOURSELF. *

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


>


I agree it is @Artistwannabe logic is baffling


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

You can't say the earth is flat when there is proof and wide acceptance that it's round. This is exactly how you sound like. Alot of people actually provide factual proof for alot of the arguments that go against your narrative but talking with you is like talking to a brick-wall. Heck yesterday all your points were pure speculation yet you still want to think that Sennin PS can tank 4 Juubi blasts even though you have literally *NO* proof of this whatsoever, statements are not everything Turrin, and for this thread you are using your speculation again to state how much stronger Living Hashirama is compared to Edo yet Tobirama literally *STATED* that they were revived at almost full power. There is a reason why everyone goes against your saying, we are *not* the delusional ones as much as you want that to be true. I know it's hard to admit you are wrong but maybe it's time for you to take a good human growth hormone and admit to yourself that you can't be right all the time. Not only that but you play off anybody who disagrees with you as salty and that he "doesn't have any argument". Most of your arguments consist entirely on headcanon and your *WRONG *interpretation of things, you even go as far as to say that "panels are not proof". Look, just from looking at all your posts I can see you have an ego, that's fine and dandy. But coupled with your condescending attitude towards everybody it just makes you look like an ass.


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## LawdyLawd (Apr 20, 2019)

The problem is people automatically assume Ootsusuki = God tier right off the bat 


But the Gaara and water kage fight against Urashiki shouldn’t really be used as evidence. That clearly wasn’t a true show of strength on either side. Just shinobi tactics outsmarting him.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I agree it is @Artistwannabe logic is baffling


You have nothing to say? Concession accepted!


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Because even you don't know how strong alive Hashi is compared to Edo, we actually have a statement saying they are *close* to full-power, yet you don't even know by how much and you are using this argument as a fact *EVEN THOUGH* *YOU ARE NOT EVEN SURE  OF THAT YOURSELF. *


That’s literally not even what I was talking about in that post. Please reread it....


I’m saying from the statements of Hashirama and Tobirama we can’t tell how much stronger they believe Obito is then Hashirama. So it’s pointless to bring them up in a debate. We all agree Obito is stronger, the debate is by how much. Do you get it now, I’ll wait....


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

321ice said:


> The problem is people automatically assume Ootsusuki = God tier right off the bat
> 
> 
> But the Gaara and water kage fight against Urashiki shouldn’t really be used as evidence. That clearly wasn’t a true show of strength on either side. Just shinobi tactics outsmarting him.


They also fight against Kinshiki though too


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Cool that shows his raw power is greater; not everything is raw power based. That’s why later Tobirama and SM Naruto are together more effective against Obito then that barrier.
> 
> Or is SM-Naruto and Tobirama stronger then the 4 Hokage?


If Tobirama has a seal on someone and can teleport SM Naruto to whoever he wants to punk, yea. The only reason Tobirama had a seal in the first place was because he used a suicide move on a MINDLESS Juubito.


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## Azula (Apr 20, 2019)

Bare minimum needed to defeat JJ Obito.

A way to deal with Juubidama- S/T
A way to destroy Gudoudama- Senjutsu/Taijutsu
Portions of all 9 Bijuu chakra.
An entire army and 3 jinchuriki and 1 Susanoo to pull Bijuus out.
Weakened will of Obito so he doesn't annihilate everyone with the sword of Nunoboku

There is no single "Non-God" tier that possess everything alone.

God Tiers starting with Obito are rated fine, you would need an entire team of the strongest just to have a shot.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> We all agree Obito is stronger, the debate is by how much. Do you get it now, I’ll wait....


Ok, good for admitting we are pretty much right. Problem is that we actually *DON'T* know how stronger they were alive. Judging by their showings I would say 90% of their strength is intact. The only thing we haven't seen from Edo Hashirama is SS. And SS is nothing compared to Juubi.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

The cool thing here is also that we actually have a battle showing Alive Hashirama being pushed to the Limit, we can judge his performance there to Obito's. Guess who is stronger again? So what we have is: a statement *AND* feats to prove our narrative right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## blk (Apr 20, 2019)

I get your argument, but battle conditions matter.

In the examples we have, there are always conditions that make the God Tier of the situation weaker or vulnerable. 
Juubito is the prime example, his barrier + Juubidama barrage would have obliterated the shinobi alliance if they couldn't use the FTG + chakra shroud combo. And before Naruto and Sasuke became God Tiers themselves, they still had no counter to that or anything that could seriously hurt Juubito.
The hit they gave to Juubito did nothing to him, they had to extract the bijuus (with extensive help) to really win. 

So why didn't Juubito just use another juubidama barrage? Don't know, maybe he had to keep the god tree intact, maybe afrer releasing the Juubi he had lesser chakra reserves, maybe it was his mindset.

Whatever the motives, note how the battle conditions were essentially the determining factor.

In the average battledome scenario, conditions are pretty neutral and thus it's reasonable to assert that the God Tier stomps his non God Tier opposition.

In terms of general tier lists, things like general raw power, physical stats and hax are the variables, so again the God Tiers are very much above the rest in those categories.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Ok, good for admitting we are pretty much right. Problem is that we actually *DON'T* know how stronger they were alive. Judging by their showings I would say 90% of their strength is intact. The only thing we haven't seen from Edo Hashirama is SS. And SS is nothing compared to Juubi.


Dude please read. Im not talking about the difference between Edo Hashirama and living Hashirama here. I’m talking about the difference between Obito and Edo Hashirama


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

blk said:


> I get your argument, but battle conditions matter.
> 
> In the examples we have, there are always conditions that make the God Tier of the situation weaker or vulnerable.
> Juubito is the prime example, his barrier + Juubidama barrage would have obliterated the shinobi alliance if they couldn't use the FTG + chakra shroud combo. And before Naruto and Sasuke became God Tiers themselves, they still had no counter to that or anything that could seriously hurt Juubito.
> ...


I don’t disagree that’s my whole point that skill, tactics, and Jutsu matter more then this idea that there is a massive gap that insurmountable between “Non God Tiers” and “God Tiers”


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude please read. Im not talking about the difference between Edo Hashirama and living Hashirama here. I’m talking about the difference between Obito and Edo Hashirama


But Edo Hashi already admitted inferiority, infact Tobirama said he's no match even if he absorbed all his Kage-bunshin. Don't understand what you are trying to prove here


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But Edo Hashi already admitted inferiority, infact Tobirama said he's no match even if he absorbed all his Kage-bunshin. Don't understand what you are trying to prove here


 Copy - I’m saying from the statements of Hashirama and Tobirama we can’t tell how much stronger they believe Obito is then Hashirama. So it’s pointless to bring them up in a debate. We all agree Obito is stronger, the debate is by how much. Do you get it now, I’ll wait. -Paste

Please read this time


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## Sorin (Apr 20, 2019)

Juubito busts out the barrier and fires off 4 juubidama's, each one of them stronger than the one stretching hundreds of kilometers up into the atmosphere. What's alive Hashirama or any non god tier bar Minato and Tobirama gonna do? 

They gonna do nothing. They'll assume the fetal position and wait for the unholy rape rained upon them.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Copy - I’m saying from the statements of Hashirama and Tobirama we can’t tell how much stronger they believe Obito is then Hashirama. So it’s pointless to bring them up in a debate. We all agree Obito is stronger, the debate is by how much. Do you get it now, I’ll wait. -Paste
> 
> Please read this time


But there is no debate, we don't know by how much. Judging from feats Juubito is *WAY *more powerful, being able to easily overpower his gates, showing jutsus way more destructive than Hashirama's strongest attack (SS). I still don't see what you are trying to argue here.


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## Speedyamell (Apr 20, 2019)

Azula said:


> Bare minimum needed to defeat JJ Obito.
> 
> A way to deal with Juubidama- S/T
> A way to destroy Gudoudama- Senjutsu/Taijutsu
> ...


I think what turrin is trying to say is, given that obito is considered the weakest god tier by many for some reason,
Seeing other god tiers like kinshiki get pushed by two kage level characters, seem to lower the bar on the god tier scale..

Although I think the main problem is with jubbito's ranking..
I personally don't believe juubito is anywhere near being the weakest god tier but that's just me


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Speedyamell said:


> I think what turrin is trying to say is, given that obito is considered the weakest god tier by many for some reason,
> Seeing other god tiers like kinshiki get pushed by two kage level characters, seem to lower the bar on the god tier scale..
> 
> Although I think the main problem is with jubbito's ranking..
> I personally don't believe juubito is anywhere near being the weakest god tier but that's just me


Absolutely agree. IMO Base Momoshiki and Kinshiki are waay weaker than Juubito.


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## Jin Mori (Apr 20, 2019)

Hashirama and Tobirama's clones got obliterated in seconds. Tobirama admitted that his older brother was inferior (even if he took back his clones). Hashirama > Tobirama. Hiruzen got one shotted, minato would eventually have been one shotted as well. So would everyone else on that field, including Madara. All of them working together (to pull the bijuu chakra out) and obito's wavering will, let them to that victory. 

RSM Naruto > Juubi Jinchuuriki Obito > retarded Juubito > 4 edo hokages > Hashirama. 

Did you stretch properly before all this reaching of yours?


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Absolutely agree. IMO Base Momoshiki and Kinshiki are waay weaker than Juubito.


I wouldn't say *WAY* weaker, Kishinki kept up with a tired Sasuke. Still kind of a feat in itself, although I do consider them weaker than the rest.


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## Ishmael (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> as the *Boruto* series continues.



Welp I'm out.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> But there is no debate, we don't know by how much. Judging from feats Juubito is *WAY *more powerful, being able to easily overpower his gates, showing jutsus way more destructive than Hashirama's strongest attack (SS). I still don't see what you are trying to argue here.


Literally just saying that the statements can’t be used as proof of Juubito being way stronger.

We can discuss feats if you want


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

@Artistwannabe You're just gonna waste your time if you argue about feats with Turrin.


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Juubito being > Hokage barrier doesn’t mean he’s greater then all the Hokage combined. Later Tobirama even puts up a better fight by himself then the combine barrier did.
> 
> The Hokage barrier was fighting Juubito with raw power, which obviously they are going to loose.


Madara: "I would love to see the Hokage beg for mercy".

Chances are someone can't make a group of foes beg for mercy if there is no astronomical gap in power.

Or is Madara's opinion not valid now ?? Hm ??


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Literally just saying that the statements can’t be used as proof of Juubito being way stronger.
> 
> We can discuss feats if you want


I know what you are going to bring up honestly (Juubito being defeated by weaker ISO) but the entire reason it all worked out was because of plot. Naruto resonated with the Bijuu causing them to fall out of him. That's literally the only reason he lost, not to mention to pull the bijuu from the host required the efforts of the entire shinobi allience and Naruto using his TNJ on Obito before they could pull of the W.


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

blk said:


> I get your argument, but battle conditions matter.
> 
> In the examples we have, there are always conditions that make the God Tier of the situation weaker or vulnerable.
> Juubito is the prime example, his barrier + Juubidama barrage would have obliterated the shinobi alliance if they couldn't use the FTG + chakra shroud combo. And before Naruto and Sasuke became God Tiers themselves, they still had no counter to that or anything that could seriously hurt Juubito.
> ...



This is a great response, I skimmed the OP it but it seems hes reaching for iffy scaling off different boruto characters like momoshiki vs the new gokage and using these wishy washy instances to scale it back to the original series

e.g: chojiro was able to swap hands with kinshiki for 2 seconds = therefore he should be able to not die instantly to obito

However this ignoring the critical fact its a manga/ anime and you have to have the good guys at least struggling so sometimes common sense has to be ignored. As boruto goes on this is only the beginning there is already an example characters like delta. Eventually kwaki will be able to solo the 5 kage low diff because of the progressive power creep we already saw beginning during the war.

With how shitty the boruto writers are and how soulless of a cash grab it is its only gonna get worse. Fuck boruto, why couldn't this have ended at the pain arc. or at least with madara

Reactions: Like 3


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> This I a great response, I skimmed the OP it but it seems hes reaching for iffy scaling off different boruto characters like momoshiki vs the new gokage and using these wishy washy instances to scale it back to the original series
> 
> e.g: chojiro was able to swap hands with kinshiki for 2 seconds = therefore he should be able to not die instantly to obito
> 
> ...


Nah, fuck Madara. Cool character ruined by stupid power scale.


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## oiety (Apr 20, 2019)

the clear answer here is that the Boruto Era Kage have surpassed Hashirama AND BSM War Arc Naruto


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

Zembie said:


> Nah, fuck Madara. Cool character ruined by stupid power scale.


Thats pretty much what im saying but it was still better than fucking kaguya


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I know what you are going to bring up honestly (Juubito being defeated by weaker ISO) but the entire reason it all worked out was because of plot. Naruto resonated with the Bijuu causing them to fall out of him. That's literally the only reason he lost, not to mention to pull the bijuu from the host required the efforts of the entire shinobi allience and Naruto using his TNJ on Obito before they could pull of the W.


Obito seeing his reflection in Naruto and losing his conviction (from which the sword of nonoboku takes its power) is not plot. Naruto creating a link between his Biju chakra and the chakra inside Obito to extract the beasts is not plot. Not everything that goes against power levels is plot.

However, as stated by @Azula non of the so called non God tiers have the tools that were needed to defeat Obito in canon. Even Naruto needed the help of thousands of Shinobi, Gokage B, EMS Sasuke and 4 Edo Hokages.


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## blk (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I don’t disagree that’s my whole point that skill, tactics, and Jutsu matter more then this idea that there is a massive gap that insurmountable between “Non God Tiers” and “God Tiers”



Yeah but many critical conditions in the battle against Juubito (for example) weren't under anyone's control necessarily (they weren't about tactics, skill and jutsu, it's just that certain characters could capitalize on those circumstances with their skills etc). They just happened (because of plot ofc).

In mostly neutral settings such as the battledome scenarios, it's hard to even visualize the tactics etc that can overcome the huge gap in raw stats between "God tiers" and "non God tiers" imo.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> Obito seeing his reflection in Naruto and losing his conviction (from which the sword of nonoboku takes its power) is not plot. Naruto creating a link between his Biju chakra and the chakra inside Obito to extract the beasts is not plot. Not everything that goes against power levels is plot.
> 
> However, as stated by @Azula non of the so called non God tiers have the tools that were needed to defeat Obito in canon. Even Naruto needed the help of thousands of Shinobi, Gokage B, EMS Sasuke and 4 Edo Hokages.


Isn't that basically plot?


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> Isn't that basically plot?


Nope.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> Nope.


Wait wait wait, so all characters being present there to pull out the Bijuu and Obito getting emotional is not plot? What is it then??????


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Artistwannabe said:


> I know what you are going to bring up honestly (Juubito being defeated by weaker ISO) but the entire reason it all worked out was because of plot. Naruto resonated with the Bijuu causing them to fall out of him. That's literally the only reason he lost, not to mention to pull the bijuu from the host required the efforts of the entire shinobi allience and Naruto using his TNJ on Obito before they could pull of the W.


Let’s disregard that then. You seem to think Juunbito wins due to having such a staggeringly higher raw power then Hashirama. So let’s address


Here we get a good perspective of Juubi TBB.

Now let’s look at the clash between Hashirama Shinsuusenju and Madara TBB SPAM:


The result of that clash is very similar in scope or bigger then Juubi TBB. Yet Hashirama Shinsuusenju survives that and protects Hashirama.

I’m not saying Obito cant produce enough raw power to bust Shinsuusenju, but I am saying the difference in power isn’t as high as you might believe and it’s very possible SM Hashirama could deal with and survive against Juubi scale TBB


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

blk said:


> Yeah but many critical conditions in the battle against Juubito (for example) weren't under anyone's control necessarily (they weren't about tactics, skill and jutsu, it's just that certain characters could capitalize on those circumstances with their skills etc). They just happened (because of plot ofc).
> 
> In mostly neutral settings such as the battledome scenarios, it's hard to even visualize the tactics etc that can overcome the huge gap in raw stats between "God tiers" and "non God tiers" imo.


Here’s a good example when Naruto and Tobirama land Rasengan on Obito; if that had been another Jutsu the match could have been won right there due to tactics and Jutsu


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> Madara: "I would love to see the Hokage beg for mercy".
> 
> Chances are someone can't make a group of foes beg for mercy if there is no astronomical gap in power.
> 
> Or is Madara's opinion not valid now ?? Hm ??


Yet Madara didn’t let Hashirama fight with the other Hokage. So yes he’s valid in saying Minato, Tobirama, and Hiruzen couldn’t win


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## Android (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Yet Madara didn’t let Hashirama fight with the other Hokage


Because he wanted to take his Sage power.



Turrin said:


> So yes he’s valid in saying Minato, Tobirama, and Hiruzen couldn’t win


No, he never excluded anyone. 

You are just making pathetic excuses now.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Android said:


> Because he wanted to take his Sage power.
> 
> 
> No, he never excluded anyone.
> ...


Fine for arguments sake let’s say he was including Hashirama. He didn’t know that Minato could use BM and chakra transfer, which would be major buffs to Hashirama. Without those the Hokage would likely loose as Hashirama and Tobirama are the only ones who can do anything against Obito due to physical speed, and they will eventually likely loose. So I don’t disagree with Madara even if he was referring to all of them, I just think he wasn’t aware of chakra transfer from Minato


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

You're really grasping at straws now turrin



Turrin said:


> Let’s disregard that then. You seem to think Juunbito wins due to having such a staggeringly higher raw power then Hashirama. So let’s address
> 
> 
> Here we get a good perspective of Juubi TBB.
> ...



So because The explosion from 1 Jubi bomb is kinda drawn similarly to the clash from hashirama and madara they must be the same level of attack? ignoring all context and all other sources of evidence: you're saying it looks kinda similar so it must be equal in strength.

this is almost as bad as you claiming ashura and indra had the exact same power in their clash because sasuke's attack was named "Indras arrow"

Completely ignoring Naruto had the entire NE of the goddamn earth and sasuke had all the chakara from 8 biju.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> You're really grasping at straws now turrin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude literally this is what you guys are doing looking at how big the explosion of Juubidama are and saying well that’s power that X can’t handle. So I’m literally doing the same thing and scaling of the size of the explosion and suddenly now that’s invalid. 

So to recap using statements that place the characters not too far off is invalid. Using feats of speed and strength against stronger God Tiers like Kinshiki is invalid. And scaling size of raw power is invalid. 

Literally nothing is valid in your eyes except your own opinion then


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Edo Hashirama admitting inferiority doesn’t mean he’s massively inferior that’s where your logic starts to go wrong
> 
> But I’m curious where you rank Boruto Gokage, Shin, and Delta



No Turrin, you are in no position to say anyone's logic goes wrong Mr "Jiraiya's SM is equal to all perfect Sages and SPSM because I say so". 

This thread is a joke, your Delta points blatantly ignores the manga. Your Shin point ignores the battle circumstances outlined and ignores what happened after. Moreover, you _*still *_think Hashirama is on RSM Naruto's level despite the fact Hashirama admitted inferiority to an untamed Juubito who was far beneath a controlled Juubito, who Minato pointed out was far beneath Juubidara who was way above Hashirama and above Juubito. Juubidara was taken easily by RSM Naruto...

ck


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> No Turrin, you are in no position to say anyone's logic goes wrong Mr "Jiraiya's SM is equal to all perfect Sages and SPSM because I say so".
> 
> This thread is a joke, your Delta points blatantly ignores the manga. Your Shin point ignores the battle circumstances outlined and ignores what happened after. Moreover, you _*still *_think Hashirama is on RSM Naruto's level despite the fact Hashirama admitted inferiority to an untamed Juubito who was far beneath a controlled Juubito, who Minato pointed out was far beneath Juubidara who was way above Hashirama and above Juubito. Juubidara was taken easily by RSM Naruto...
> 
> ck


Show me the statement


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Show me the statement



You've been shown statements, you just ignore them. Point in case, the existence of this thread involves you ignoring many statements. 

Hashirama is on RSM Naruto's tier. Your Delta example, Turrin did you even read the latest Boruto chapter? You probably did but like with the SM and Hashirama-Juubito power, you chose to ignore it. 

Maybe focus on providing evidence for your wacky statements as opposed to typing walls of text with no substance.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hayumi (Apr 20, 2019)

All I'm saying is boruto really fucked up power scaling.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> All I'm saying is boruto really fucked up power scaling.


Not only power-scaling


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> You've been shown statement .


Okay cool so if your not lying then you should be able to show the statement again that says Naruto SM offers a greater then x10 boost. I’ll wait


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude literally this is what you guys are doing looking at how big the explosion of Juubidama are and saying well that’s power that X can’t handle. So I’m literally doing the same thing and scaling of the size of the explosion and suddenly now that’s invalid.
> 
> So to recap using statements that place the characters not too far off is invalid. Using feats of speed and strength against stronger God Tiers like Kinshiki is invalid. And scaling size of raw power is invalid.
> 
> Literally nothing is valid in your eyes except your own opinion then


Is the hill you wanna die on?
Alright

This is ignoring all context, DC ect. Just the image. You're hinging this on which one of these two is bigger? Okay then Lets use you the logic you use for your Sage mode/ CS boost/ iso avatar boost.

You have 1 Jubi bomb (which jubito can fire of 4 at once)
Against the clash of 2 High tiers: Madara+ Kyyubi and hashirama at their full power

This jubito attack is 8 times as strong as either madara or hashirama according to you.

This is even disregarding in the image the juubi bomb looks like it covers a wider space:
>See the curvature of the earth vs flat
>The hills are smaller in the juubi bomb

You're literally wrong on every front

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> , who Minato pointed out was far beneath Juubidara who was way above Hashirama and above Juubito. Juubidara was taken easily by RSM Naruto...


Minato only say he has stronger/more chakra. IIRC, he never said anything about "far"


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Okay cool so if your not lying then you should be able to show the statement again that says Naruto SM offers a greater then x10 boost. I’ll wait



You can lie to yourself if you want to, myself and many others showing you every feat and statement point to the contrary still resulted in you ignoring canon yet again. Basically, I needn't waste time trying to convince a clear brick wall.

I mean looking at this thread many others pointed out where you went wrong including your bizarre Hashirama = RSM Naruto notion yet you willfully ignore their evidence for your head canon. That itself tells you how much time it is worth trying to convince you.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Hussain said:


> Minato only say he has stronger/more chakra. IIRC, he never said anything about "far"



Not "more chakra", he said it was even stronger. 
Link removed

"More chakra" is the nonsense Turrin uses to convince himself SM Naruto's superior feats and abilities are due to only chakra (even the physical and Senjutsu feats).

The general idea is it is much stronger than what Obito had, especially when you consider he has the whole Hachibi and half of the Kyuubi. Shinjudara would be even stronger as he absorbed Obito's Shinju. 

Basically, Madara was much stronger than Obito at that point.


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

I think the secret behind what happened to Turrin might be the guy whom he read his post on the different forum and convinced him
with everything. He might have been a Wizard/Witch...


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Not "more chakra", he said it was even stronger.
> Link removed


ok, that's what I am saying. We know Asspulldara is stronger, but we don't know by how much. 
(Based on Minato's statement alone)


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Is the hill you wanna die on?
> Alright
> 
> This is ignoring all context, DC ect. Just the image. You're hinging this on which one of these two is bigger? Okay then Lets use you the logic you use for your Sage mode/ CS boost/ iso avatar boost.
> ...


How did you get to x8? Let’s start there because 4 Juubi bombs equals x4.....

Anyway I wasn’t using that comparison to say Shinsuusenju could survive x4 Juubidama. Just 1. So literally your post has zero relevance to what I was talking about....

But I’m curious. You think comparing the size of dc is invalid evidence. You think character statements like Madara believing he could win is invalid evidence. You think showing weaker characters doing well against God Tiers is invalid evidence. What is a valid means of comparison?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Hussain said:


> I think the secret behind what happened to Turrin might be the guy whom he read his post on the different forum and convinced him
> with everything. He might have been a Wizard/Witch...



Or a genuine cult leader. 



Hussain said:


> ok, that's what I am saying. We know Asspulldara is stronger, but we don't know by how much.
> (Based on Minato's statement alone)



Well, based on Minato's statement we can gauge he's a lot stronger. Minato's statement validates Madara is stronger which the readers would've inferred by the fact Madara had the full Hachibi and half of of the Kyuubi within him.

Besides that, there's also the clear difference between base one Rinnegan Madara and base Rinnegan-Sharingan Obito* which would further add onto that.

*An even bigger difference when you remove phasing given that Juubito couldn't phase.


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## JayK (Apr 20, 2019)

The jump from top tier to god tier is Country Level with MHS speed to straight up Continent Level + with sub relativistic speed.

Yes god tier is certainly overrated.


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> How did you get to x8? Let’s start there because 4 Juubi bombs equals x4.....


Its double the original clash because its simply the juubi vs 2 god tiers, I clearly stated it so how did you miss that?


Turrin said:


> Anyway I wasn’t using that comparison to say Shinsuusenju could survive x4 Juubidama. Just 1. So literally your post has zero relevance to what I was talking about.





Turrin said:


> Let’s disregard that then. You seem to think Juunbito wins due to having such a staggeringly higher raw power then Hashirama. So let’s address
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Dude literally this is what you guys are doing looking at how big the explosion of Juubidama are and saying well that’s power that X can’t handle. So I’m literally doing the same thing and scaling of the size of the explosion and suddenly now that’s invalid.


lmao



Turrin said:


> But I’m curious. You think comparing the size of dc is invalid evidence. You think character statements like Madara believing he could win is invalid evidence. *You think showing weaker characters doing well against God Tiers is invalid evidence. What is a valid means of comparison*?



I literally never said that ITT so stop strawmanning me yet again. I reside with pretty much everyone else in that Jubitos feat, portrayal >madaras statement

Why? Madara could have easily been wrong as many people through out the entire series have been, hes not shown* ANYTHING* at that point that could survive jubitos *OPENING ATTACK*

But you are the one claiming he has something up his ass, not just to weaken jubito with hax, but to *COMBAT HIM EVENLY*

Its really that simple


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

okeechobee101 said:


> All I'm saying is boruto really fucked up power scaling.


Boruto ruined any chance of Naruto Kai being a reality.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> Its double the original clash because its simply the juubi vs 2 god tiers, I clearly stated it so how did you miss that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The explosion was caused by Hashirama and Madara combined attack, but Shinsuusenju survived the full explosion not just half. So it’s a best x4

And I ask again what are these feats / portrayal your basing your assessment on if you not comparing dc, not using statements, and not comparing performances of other characters against Juubito or other God Tiers?


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> You can lie to yourself if you want to, myself and many others showing you every feat and statement point to the contrary still resulted in you ignoring canon yet again. Basically, I needn't waste time trying to convince a clear brick wall.
> 
> I mean looking at this thread many others pointed out where you went wrong including your bizarre Hashirama = RSM Naruto notion yet you willfully ignore their evidence for your head canon. That itself tells you how much time it is worth trying to convince you.


Show me the statement or stop bringing up your SM headcanon. I won’t discuss anything with you until you do one or the other.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Show me the statement or stop bringing up your SM headcanon. I won’t discuss anything with you until you do one or the other.



SM headcanon = what you're running with Mr "I wanna ignore all the manga statements/feats which show Naruto's Senjutsu is superior". 

No Turrin, you won't discuss anything because you've made your mind up already and no amount of evidence will show you otherwise. The fact I showed you every single statement of Naruto's SM and every single feat comparing Naruto and Jiraiya's SM to which you still denies everything showed me that. 

CS = SM.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> SM headcanon = what you're running with Mr "I wanna ignore all the manga statements/feats which show Naruto's Senjutsu is superior".
> 
> No Turrin, you won't discuss anything because you've made your mind up already and no amount of evidence will show you otherwise. The fact I showed you every single statement of Naruto's SM and every single feat comparing Naruto and Jiraiya's SM to which you still denies everything showed me that.
> 
> CS = SM.


Show me the statement


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Show me the statement



Read the manga again and come back to me.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Read the manga again and come back to me.


Come back to me with the statement.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Come back to me with the statement.



Read the manga, you'll find the statement there. Let me know if you're struggling to find it.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Read the manga, you'll find the statement there. Let me know if you're struggling to find it.


Checks to see the statement, still doesn’t see one, still waiting for the statement


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Checks to see the statement, still doesn’t see one, still waiting for the statement



Nice try, now go read all the comments re SM Naruto you chose to ignore. Hint: look at the the big posts where I and a couple of others showed you literally everything.


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## Turrin (Apr 20, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Nice try, now go read all the comments re SM Naruto you chose to ignore. Hint: look at the the big posts where I and a couple of others showed you literally everything.


Where art thou statement


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Where art thou statement



I've told you where to find it. Now the rest is up to you, my man.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Many posters seem to believe there is some massive gap between even the weakest “God Tier”, which in many’s opinion is Juubito, and other very strong characters like Hashirama, Pre Juubi Madara, and so on


Thats because they are

As visibly shown by legit every comparative feat

Hashirama admitted blatant inferiority to a Juubito who had NONE of his power under control or had any kind of Combat skill or intellect available to him...

He also blitzed Hashiramas KB and Tobirama proper and literally cut them in half no diff...

He then gets stronger on top of that, and then theres stronger JJs than him, then there are people stronger than those JJs etc...

Hashirama is UNBELIEVABLY low on the god tier pecking order, and if Hashi is that low, EVERYONE ELSE IS.

PERIOD

GET OVER IT TURRIN THIS IS EMBARRASSING 


Turrin said:


> this is largely contradicted by the Manga


NO

NO IT ISNT


Turrin said:


> will only continue to be contradicted further as the Boruto series continues.


The Boruto manga has done nothing to contradict anything

There are some suspect things in it, but examining even a modicum of the context reveals they dont change a damn thing, or are outliers at absolute worst


Turrin said:


> we saw Kuro, Chojuro, Darui, and Gaara all take on Ootsuki who are stronger then Juubito


And got fucking destroyed

Even while ODing on the largest dose of PIS in the series 


Turrin said:


> Likewise Kishi wrote Naruto Gaiden where we have Uchiha Shin take on Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke fairly successfully


Shin never does ANYTHING to Naruto or Sasuke

He lands very superficial hits on them that they literally walk off for the rest of Gaiden, while both are nerfed and not taking him seriously

"Fairly successfully"

If youre on drugs I guess?


Turrin said:


> We then have the recent example of Delta who was able to pressure Adult Naruto. He was holding back at different times


He wasnt holding back at different times

He was holding back the entire time

And regardless, Delta keeping pace with a serious Naruto (which she didnt even do) would elevate her to God tier Status...It doesnt make God tier go down or seem less impressive...Its a feat for Delta...not an Anti-Feat for Naruto 


Turrin said:


> And before you say lol Boruto (despite kishi consulting on it), this is present in the original Manga as well.


Kishi doesnt consult on Boruto. Hes handed the reigns over almost entirely.

And no it isnt present in the OG manga.


Turrin said:


> . Looking at Tobirama whose weaker then Hashirama and even more so with his abilities lowered as an Edo. Was able to counter and land multiple blows on a “God Tier” Obito


At the cost of literally half of his body to prep a tag on Juubito which made all of these "multiple blows" possible

If he wasnt an Edo, Juubito would have deaded him that exact moment

Sasuek himself remarks on this IN CANON


Turrin said:


> we also have the now infamous Madara statement where he said he could take Juubito, with Hashirama leftover Senjutsu.


Which is horseshit

Moving on


Turrin said:


> The other way that you can say God Tiers are way ahead of Non God Tiers, is Raw Power. I’ve heard people place some God Tiers at Continental+ to Planetary. But since when was this Manga DBZ?


Why does it not being DBZ suddenly invalidate the force of their attacks?

Asinine argument


Turrin said:


> Throughout the manga we’ve constantly seen characters with massive raw power get shit on by characters with unique Jutsu and abilities


Not with a gap in power even half as substantial as we are talking between Gods and non gods


Turrin said:


> God Tiers are no exception


Yes

Yes they are

They are literally over 100x stronger than the runner up tiers BY FEATS


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## Soul (Apr 20, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Just did, deal with it



Are you bragging about being wrong?


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 20, 2019)

It took almost of shinobi alliance to take out jubbito and half of the time he wasnot in his right mind and latter half was clouded by his own judgment and he was likely the weakest god tier. 
I don't know how we can over-rate such a entity when compared to non god tiers.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Apr 20, 2019)

So Turrin's going to make a topic saying God Tier overrated since he can't accept he's been wrong about things?


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So Turrin's going to make a topic saying God Tier overrated since he can't accept he's been wrong about things?


He does this with every little thing.


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## Omote (Apr 20, 2019)

I don't understand how Juubito can blitz these noobs on panel, they admit inferiority to him, and this is a version of Juubito who is brainless AND doesn't even want to fight

And yet people say God tiers are overrated


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## Zembie (Apr 20, 2019)

Omote said:


> I don't understand how Juubito can blitz these noobs on panel, they admit inferiority to him, and this is a version of Juubito who is brainless AND doesn't even want to fight
> 
> And yet people say God tiers are overrated


Turrin....


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Kishi doesnt consult on Boruto. Hes handed the reigns over almost entirely.


he does tho... 
heck, he even game the anime ideas for filler episodes


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## Trojan (Apr 20, 2019)

the entire NBD is telling Turrin he is wrong (except for 2 members who agree with him)
and he insists that he is not..  

I am sincerely curious what type of arguments did that other guy on the other forum put forth to convince him this much....


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2019)

Hussain said:


> the entire NBD is telling Turrin he is wrong (except for 2 members who agree with him)
> and he insists that he is not..
> 
> I am sincerely curious what type of arguments did that other guy on the other forum put forth to convince him this much....


For real I need to know this too. everyone says he was once a great poster with sensible opinions. Its like when sasuke learned the truth about itachi and went full retard


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 20, 2019)

At this point it's just arguing against a heavily delusional person, lots and lots of people provide factual evidence for their claims, yet he chooses to ignore them.


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 20, 2019)

I agree with your sentiment that Juubito wouldn’t just shit stomp Hashirama into oblivion but there is a gap between them where it’s just inconceivable for him to compete with Juubito by himself , yes he has blows landed on him by much lesser Shinobi but think he took on KCM Minato , BM Naruto , Tobirama , Hiruzen , EMS Sasuke and the entire Shinobi alliance all while still watching his back for Madara who could’ve struck at any time how long would Hashirama survive in the same scenario Juubito started in , same with Kinshiki he took on multiple tier ninja at once and Sasuke & Naruto were there as well to back them up two guys that are probably stronger than him to back them up as for Delta , Naruto was sandbagging heavy and only used hand to hand which happens to be her strong suit so what we have is alien tiers either sandbagging heavy or being outnumbered significantly in order for lesser tiers to be able to compete and think from a narrative perspective Madara is close to Hashirama why would he sacrifice so much only to achieve power that only makes him slightly stronger than Hashirama , Juubito was comprised of both Hashirama/Madara’s abilities and then we sort of see it took both of their abilities EMS/Kurama+ Sage Mode to defeat Juubito implying it would take both of them to defeat him .


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## sabre320 (Apr 21, 2019)

You could make a hundred hashiramas and juubito could still trap them in the barrier and leave them to rot.....or blow them away while trapped like shooting fish in a barrel or unleash the shinjuu to branch rape...thats the level of gap....


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## Serene Grace (Apr 21, 2019)

Holy fuck bro

This has got to stop

Please tell someone didn't already post retarded Juubito obliterating the Kage, and he's just saying this because of bad memory


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## Trojan (Apr 21, 2019)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Holy fuck bro
> 
> This has got to stop
> 
> Please tell someone didn't already post retarded Juubito obliterating the Kage, and he's just saying this because of bad memory


he read someone's post somewhere and it as so valid and full of evidence that he couldn't help but agree with his/her view.

you are just butthurt and have no argument...


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## Serene Grace (Apr 21, 2019)

Hussain said:


> he read someone's post somewhere and it as so valid and full of evidence that he couldn't help but agree with his/her view.
> 
> you are just butthurt and have no argument...


Guess I should take Juubitos cock out of my mouth

I used to be better than this


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 21, 2019)

To be fair there is some truth to this or at the very least some things to consider.

I think the tiers aren't as far apart as some would believe, at least at the upper levels. Plus it's not like this manga is some sort of paragon of consistency. Kishi loves to contradict himself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> I agree with your sentiment that Juubito wouldn’t just shit stomp Hashirama into oblivion but there is a gap between them where it’s just inconceivable for him to compete with Juubito by himself , yes he has blows landed on him by much lesser Shinobi but think he took on KCM Minato , BM Naruto , Tobirama , Hiruzen , EMS Sasuke and the entire Shinobi alliance all while still watching his back for Madara who could’ve struck at any time how long would Hashirama survive in the same scenario Juubito started in , same with Kinshiki he took on multiple tier ninja at once and Sasuke & Naruto were there as well to back them up two guys that are probably stronger than him to back them up as for Delta , Naruto was sandbagging heavy and only used hand to hand which happens to be her strong suit so what we have is alien tiers either sandbagging heavy or being outnumbered significantly in order for lesser tiers to be able to compete and think from a narrative perspective Madara is close to Hashirama why would he sacrifice so much only to achieve power that only makes him slightly stronger than Hashirama , Juubito was comprised of both Hashirama/Madara’s abilities and then we sort of see it took both of their abilities EMS/Kurama+ Sage Mode to defeat Juubito implying it would take both of them to defeat him .


I don’t see why it’s so inconceivable. Feats wise Hashirama has Senjutsu to counter truth-seeking orbs. He’s got a stronger “mecha” in Senpo Shinsuusenju then ones we’ve seen compete with Juubito like Sasuke and Narutos ISO, which has tanked explosions on the size or greater then the ones we’ve seen Juubidama produce. He’s also a lot more skillful then Juubito. And he has the speed to keep up with Juubito considering he kept up with a Choke Tome user even without SM. He only really looses out in a direct raw power clash which probably means Juubito would wins high diff. Lore wise we have Madara making a point to keep Hashirama from aiding the alliance; and targeting Hashirama Senjutsu believing with it he can beat Juubito, both of which indicates Hashiramas powers could have a significant impact on a battle against him.

Kinshiki was defeated with minimal assistance from Sasuke who didn’t even need to use anywhere close to his stronger abilities to aid the two Kage. It’s pretty conceivable that the two Kage could have beaten Kinshiki in a longer battle even without Sasuke, under the right conditions. And I don’t personally believe we’re suppose to think those 2 Kages are way stronger then Hashirama or “God Tier”. But I do think we’re suppose to believe Kinshiki is at least as strong as Juubito, if not stronger.


Naruto held back, but Delta still kept up with him in Taijutsu and her lasers were portrayed as a one shot for even Naruto. That’s enough to make her a very real threat against Juubito, and many of the weaker God Tiers under the right circumstance.

Which is my point that most of the stronger None-God Tiers can put up a good fight against God Tiers under the right circumstances.

——-

Now when it comes to Madara the power he was seeking was that of the 3 Eyed Alien level characters like Kaguya and Fused Momoshiki. We have seen there’s is a large difference in power between this level and Juubito level. In the original manga Naruto alone could take on Juubito level God Tiers, while he need Sasukes help and then some to take on Kaguya. In Boruto we Darui being able to clash with Momoshiki, but the moment he fuses with Kinshiki, he oneshots all the Gokage (we 2 shots Gaara).

So Madara wasn’t after Juubito levels of power, but way beyond that.


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## hbcaptain (Apr 21, 2019)

And we have Kawaki who could react and move at RSM Naruto in chapter 33 while he needed the help of "base" Naruto in order to escape Delta's sudden explosion in the last chapters.
Sorry to say, but feats consistency is the last thing Kishi and/or Kodachi are thinking about. There is only one thing that matters for them is called "plot".


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## Siskebabas (Apr 21, 2019)

Is this a serious discussion? Just to defeat juubito it took whole alliance and all of the top tiers combined strenght and it still was psychological victory as they did not managed to psisically submit juubito as he required god level TNJ to be defeated. He one shot edo madara and hashirama just as colateral damage. Gap between top tier and god tier is massive

Reactions: Like 1


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 21, 2019)

There is a very inter link between posters who say that the gap between tiers aren't as huge and the fandoms they're in.


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I don’t see why it’s so inconceivable. Feats wise Hashirama has Senjutsu to counter truth-seeking orbs. He’s got a stronger “mecha” in Senpo Shinsuusenju then ones we’ve seen compete with Juubito like Sasuke and Narutos ISO, which has tanked explosions on the size or greater then the ones we’ve seen Juubidama produce. He’s also a lot more skillful then Juubito. And he has the speed to keep up with Juubito considering he kept up with a Choke Tome user even without SM. He only really looses out in a direct raw power clash which probably means Juubito would wins high diff. Lore wise we have Madara making a point to keep Hashirama from aiding the alliance; and targeting Hashirama Senjutsu believing with it he can beat Juubito, both of which indicates Hashiramas powers could have a significant impact on a battle against him.
> 
> Kinshiki was defeated with minimal assistance from Sasuke who didn’t even need to use anywhere close to his stronger abilities to aid the two Kage. It’s pretty conceivable that the two Kage could have beaten Kinshiki in a longer battle even without Sasuke, under the right conditions. And I don’t personally believe we’re suppose to think those 2 Kages are way stronger then Hashirama or “God Tier”. But I do think we’re suppose to believe Kinshiki is at least as strong as Juubito, if not stronger.
> 
> ...



That’s not exactly how it went down he still survived an onslaught from multiple Kage level characters , yes it was Naruto/Sasuke who landed the finishing blow but they don’t even get to that point if they aren’t aided by the help of Tobirama/Minato spelling them and there is no way in hell Hashirama is taking on the entire alliance by himself which is what Juubito was subjected to , I think the problem you’re having is your taking points of the battle like 2 Kages beating Kinshiki and taking fears of these characters landing blows on these alien tiers and just because they were main highlights on the battle the fact you still
Have a Sasuke there matters because that’s something Hashirama has to contend with now in your other thread I think Chojuro and Kurosutchi are much stronger than given credit for I mean they are Kage in an era where they have to scale to the main hero , So I’m guessing both are high Kage minimum , Delta is high tier as well and the problem with Naruto doing that is it played exactly to her strong suit which is close quarters combat so that is another disadvantage Naruto had its like Nagato/Itachi sure Itachi dominated Nagato but you can’t ignore the help he had with Bee/Naruto just like Kabuto vs Itachi Itachi did well in those fights but his enemy was disadvantaged in both scenarios so you wouldn’t come away from those fights saying Itachi by himself could push those characters to extreme/high diff alone .


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> That’s not exactly how it went down he still survived an onslaught from multiple Kage level characters , yes it was Naruto/Sasuke who landed the finishing blow but they don’t even get to that point if they aren’t aided by the help of Tobirama/Minato spelling them and there is no way in hell Hashirama is taking on the entire alliance by himself which is what Juubito was subjected to , I think the problem you’re having is your taking points of the battle like 2 Kages beating Kinshiki and taking fears of these characters landing blows on these alien tiers and just because they were main highlights on the battle the fact you still
> Have a Sasuke there matters because that’s something Hashirama has to contend with now in your other thread I think Chojuro and Kurosutchi are much stronger than given credit for I mean they are Kage in an era where they have to scale to the main hero , So I’m guessing both are high Kage minimum , Delta is high tier as well and the problem with Naruto doing that is it played exactly to her strong suit which is close quarters combat so that is another disadvantage Naruto had its like Nagato/Itachi sure Itachi dominated Nagato but you can’t ignore the help he had with Bee/Naruto just like Kabuto vs Itachi Itachi did well in those fights but his enemy was disadvantaged in both scenarios so you wouldn’t come away from those fights saying Itachi by himself could push those characters to extreme/high diff alone .


Naruto and Sasuke has help of the Hokages when they were in weaker forms. Once they get BSM and CS Susanoo they are keeping up with Juubito on their own; and combined overpowered his strongest weapon the sword of Nunbaku. Despite being weaker then Hashirama.

Having Sasuke matters but it’s not like Sasuke did much, you also need to account for this. And I don’t disagree that they are high Kage I actually would probably place them higher then you. I just don’t think they are suppose to be seen as strong as Hashirama, who I’m using a benchmark for what most people consider the strongest “non god tier”

As far the rest I’m not ignoring circumstance which is why I kept saying these characters can do well under the right circumstance. What I disagree with is that their is some massive gap between “non god tier” characters and “god tiers” to the point where “god tiers” shit stomp them and there is no way they can win

For example I believe Juubito high diffs Hashirama, instead of a stomp


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## Siskebabas (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Naruto and Sasuke has help of the Hokages when they were in weaker forms. Once they get BSM and CS Susanoo they are keeping up with Juubito on their own; and combined overpowered his strongest weapon the sword of Nunbaku. Despite being weaker then Hashirama.
> 
> Having Sasuke matters but it’s not like Sasuke did much, you also need to account for this. And I don’t disagree that they are high Kage I actually would probably place them higher then you. I just don’t think they are suppose to be seen as strong as Hashirama, who I’m using a benchmark for what most people consider the strongest “non god tier”
> 
> ...


No way is hashirama giving high diff to jubito, while he was combating whole alliance, all shinobis, he almost one shotted shinobis multiple times and required special circumstances just to be defeated, hashi doesnt even have  enough feats or hype to suggest he can even remotely perform as good as obito


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## Steven (Apr 21, 2019)

Oh boy:jeez

They are "God" Tier for a good reason.


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> No way is hashirama giving high diff to jubito, while he was combating whole alliance, all shinobis, he almost one shotted shinobis multiple times and required special circumstances just to be defeated, hashi doesnt even have  enough feats or hype to suggest he can even remotely perform as good as obito


The assumption here is seemingly that Hashirama couldn’t also curb stomp the alliance, which I disagree with. A far weaker Shinsuusenju via spiral was stomping them if not for the effort of Hiruzen and Karin Uzamaki assault. So yeah I don’t see them doing much against full power Hashirama ether


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## Onda Vital (Apr 21, 2019)

While I don't completely agree with Turrin, I think there is double standard here.
People are using Madara statement about Kages begging for mercy as fact while Madara saying he can take on Jubbito is seen as bullshit. (I see it as bullshit as well)
While I think Juubito is comfortable stronger than Hashirama, BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke were giving some of a trouble to Juubito.

I also think that god tiers are scaled down in Boruto a bit.


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## Sufex (Apr 21, 2019)

Onda Vital said:


> While I don't completely agree with Turrin, I think there is double standard here.
> People are using Madara statement about Kages begging for mercy as fact while Madara saying he can take on Jubbito is seen as bullshit. (I see it as bullshit as well)
> While I think Juubito is comfortable stronger than Hashirama, BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke were giving some of a trouble to Juubito.
> 
> I also think that god tiers are scaled down in Boruto a bit.


No, he is saying individually madara or hashirama would give juubito a high diff fight, ignoring his first attack was literally gonna wipe everyone out without FTG hax to save their asses.


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## Trojan (Apr 21, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> No, he is saying individually madara or hashirama would give juubito a high diff fight, ignoring his first attack was literally gonna wipe everyone out without FTG hax to save their asses.


It did wipe hashi & asspulldara ‘s asses


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Naruto and Sasuke has help of the Hokages when they were in weaker forms. Once they get BSM and CS Susanoo they are keeping up with Juubito on their own; and combined overpowered his strongest weapon the sword of Nunbaku. Despite being weaker then Hashirama.
> 
> Having Sasuke matters but it’s not like Sasuke did much, you also need to account for this. And I don’t disagree that they are high Kage I actually would probably place them higher then you. I just don’t think they are suppose to be seen as strong as Hashirama, who I’m using a benchmark for what most people consider the strongest “non god tier”
> 
> ...



Of course no one is getting stomped we learned that from KCM Naruto vs Itachi who was one shooting Kages with his clones but then struggled more against Itachi most fights to keep tension they are going to scale back especially on major fights but then they always give a reason for the struggle (Illness , Sandbadding , matchup , ) being outnumbered etc)

Yeah they weren’t as strong but still could Hashirama even take on KCM Naruto , EMS Sasuke (W/Susanoo) , Hiruzen , Minato & Tobirama would he even be able to break out the 4 Kage seal like Juubito did ?


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> Of course no one is getting stomped we learned that from KCM Naruto vs Itachi who was one shooting Kages with his clones but then struggled more against Itachi most fights to keep tension they are going to scale back especially on major fights but then they always give a reason for the struggle (Illness , Sandbadding , matchup , ) being outnumbered etc)
> 
> Yeah they weren’t as strong but still could Hashirama even take on KCM Naruto , EMS Sasuke (W/Susanoo) , Hiruzen , Minato & Tobirama would he even be able to break out the 4 Kage seal like Juubito did ?


Well please tell that to the people I’ve been debating in this thread...

And it depends on circumstance how Hashirama would perform just like it depended on circumstance with Juubito. If Hashirama starts out fighting in close combat with his small Mokuton then he’s going to get tagged by 2 FTG users, but so didn’t Obito, who largely survived only because they didn’t have knowledges of his Ninjutsu resistance and by the time they figured it out Obito was wise to their FTG tactics. If Hashirama starts out with his massive Mokuton constructs then that team really can’t do much against him; outside of BM Minato and BM Naruto combining their chakra which is what was required to deal with Obito large attacks as well. Ultimately don’t think they can win no matter what against Senp Shinsuusenju unless Naruto, Sasuke, and Minato combine their Avatars; which is actually a greater power then what Obito faced. Albeit Obito wouldn’t have lost to what he did if he didn’t weaken himself releasing the Shinju tree


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> No, he is saying individually madara or hashirama would give juubito a high diff fight, ignoring his first attack was literally gonna wipe everyone out without FTG hax to save their asses.


How was that his first attack? There was like 4 chapters before then....


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## Sufex (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> How was that his first attack? There was like 4 chapters before then....


IIRC as soon as he gained his mind back isn't that what he went for?


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

FoboBemo said:


> IIRC as soon as he gained his mind back isn't that what he went for?


No, he started fighting with Truthseeker orbs against Minato, Naruto, and Sasuke


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Well please tell that to the people I’ve been debating in this thread...
> 
> And it depends on circumstance how Hashirama would perform just like it depended on circumstance with Juubito. If Hashirama starts out fighting in close combat with his small Mokuton then he’s going to get tagged by 2 FTG users, but so didn’t Obito, who largely survived only because they didn’t have knowledges of his Ninjutsu resistance and by the time they figured it out Obito was wise to their FTG tactics. If Hashirama starts out with his massive Mokuton constructs then that team really can’t do much against him; outside of BM Minato and BM Naruto combining their chakra which is what was required to deal with Obito large attacks as well. Ultimately don’t think they can win no matter what against Senp Shinsuusenju unless Naruto, Sasuke, and Minato combine their Avatars; which is actually a greater power then what Obito faced. Albeit Obito wouldn’t have lost to what he did if he didn’t weaken himself releasing the Shinju tree



Ultimately I see the gap between Hashirama and Juubito much like the one between Nagato and the two Sages where it’s decisive enough for him to win most times but he won’t get rah dolled Hashirama like the Sages share a power of Rikudo Sennin, with their superior but they at the time have a greater power but just like Nagato could come to Konoha flatten a village and take on multiple Kages , Juubito could take on multiple Hokage where as The Sages could compete they aren’t as strong overall .


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## Turrin (Apr 21, 2019)

Eliyua23 said:


> Ultimately I see the gap between Hashirama and Juubito much like the one between Nagato and the two Sages where it’s decisive enough for him to win most times but he won’t get rah dolled Hashirama like the Sages share a power of Rikudo Sennin, with their superior but they at the time have a greater power but just like Nagato could come to Konoha flatten a village and take on multiple Kages , Juubito could take on multiple Hokage where as The Sages could compete they aren’t as strong overall .


Who are the Sages? You mean Naruto and Jiraiya? If so I think Hashirama is closer to Juubito then those 2 are to Pain, but I can respect that premise


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Who are the Sages? You mean Naruto and Jiraiya? If so I think Hashirama is closer to Juubito then those 2 are to Pain, but I can respect that premise



Yeah


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## Siskebabas (Apr 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> The assumption here is seemingly that Hashirama couldn’t also curb stomp the alliance, which I disagree with. A far weaker Shinsuusenju via spiral was stomping them if not for the effort of Hiruzen and Karin Uzamaki assault. So yeah I don’t see them doing much against full power Hashirama ether


Hashirama ss would get juubi treatmeant, it would get sealed same as juubi v1. So alliance would literally stomp hashirama. That statue stayed so long only because 5 kages were already out of chakra mostly even before coming to battlefield.


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## Turrin (Apr 22, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> Hashirama ss would get juubi treatmeant, it would get sealed same as juubi v1. So alliance would literally stomp hashirama. That statue stayed so long only because 5 kages were already out of chakra mostly even before coming to battlefield.


If your talking about Hashirama vs Hashirama + 3 other Hokage of course he’d loose. But I thought we’re talking about the individuals that defeated Obito, IE the alliance less Hashirama who was dealing with Madara. In that case I think the alliance would also have a hard time with Hashirama and it would basically come down to Naruto and Sasuke with support from Minato and Tobirama to beat him.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 22, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Let’s disregard that then. You seem to think Juunbito wins due to having such a staggeringly higher raw power then Hashirama. So let’s address
> 
> 
> Here we get a good perspective of Juubi TBB.
> ...


Turrin... did you purposely ignore or just forget about this feat?
 This objectively completely blows your ridiculous notion that the scales aren't that different completely out the window. Hashirama, as well as Madara, even if they were working together would be effortlessly one-shot by this shit. This on a completely different scale than anything the two of them produced for a fact. What makes your argument even worse, is that this was done by the V2 Ten-Tails, not the V3 Ten-Tails, which Obito absorbed and could produce four TBBs with, each one being stronger than this one. If this doesn't make you open your eyes and see the astronomical difference in power between God tiers and the founders then I don't know what will.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Siskebabas (Apr 22, 2019)

Turrin said:


> If your talking about Hashirama vs Hashirama + 3 other Hokage of course he’d loose. But I thought we’re talking about the individuals that defeated Obito, IE the alliance less Hashirama who was dealing with Madara. In that case I think the alliance would also have a hard time with Hashirama and it would basically come down to Naruto and Sasuke with support from Minato and Tobirama to beat him.


You're ignoring circumstances that lead to Juubitos defeat, individually he stomps everyone maybe madara with rinnegan puts some resistance, rest got destroyed. And getting to your original point there is no individual that defeated obito in the first place.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 22, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Turrin... did you purposely ignore or just forget about this feat?
> This objectively completely blows your ridiculous notion that the scales aren't that different completely out the window. Hashirama, as well as Madara, even if they were working together would be effortlessly one-shot by this shit. This on a completely different scale than anything the two of them produced for a fact. What makes your argument even worse, is that this was done by the V2 Ten-Tails, not the V3 Ten-Tails, which Obito absorbed and could produce four TBBs with, each one being stronger than this one. If this doesn't make you open your eyes and see the astronomical difference in power between God tiers and the founders then I don't know what will.



What's going on here? Why am I agreeing with your posts recently?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 22, 2019)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> What's going on here? Why am I agreeing with your posts recently?


It's not hard for even people who usually disagree to come together and strongly disagree with Turrin.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 22, 2019)

Turrin's logic amazes me.
If a character he likes admits inferiority, they were being humble when they made that admission.
When the manga makes it clear that there's a huge difference between God tier and top tier, everyone misunderstood the clear comments and context from the manga because he read it deeper. 

I suspect Hashirama = RSM Naruto uses the same sort of logic as his other ranking: healthy Itachi>SM Naruto = Hebi Sasuke>SM Jiraiya = sick Itachi.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 22, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> It's not hard for even people who usually disagree to come together and strongly disagree with Turrin.



This is true.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 22, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Stronger doesn’t equal way stronger



Yeah, the characters and the context will be wrong. Remember this NF.


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## Turrin (Apr 22, 2019)

Siskebabas said:


> You're ignoring circumstances that lead to Juubitos defeat, individually he stomps everyone maybe madara with rinnegan puts some resistance, rest got destroyed. And getting to your original point there is no individual that defeated obito in the first place.


And individually Hashirama would stomp everyone but Rinnegan Madara and Tobirama


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## Turrin (Apr 22, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> It's not hard for even people who usually disagree to come together and strongly disagree with Turrin.


It is seemingly hard for them to put together a credible argument though


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## Siskebabas (Apr 22, 2019)

Turrin said:


> And individually Hashirama would stomp everyone but Rinnegan Madara and Tobirama


But the diffrence is Hashi cant take on alliance while obito can. Dude took top tiers combination attacks and still was unfazed. Thats where god tier power lies in taking on so many opponents casually, no one is reproducing such feats bar god tiers.


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## JiraiyaFlash (Apr 22, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Both of them are dead if they were alive right there. Juubito did that with the utmost of ease too. Neg diff.


You just manupilating the panel w/o the context of fight after all 3 hokage crushed by Juubito, Sasuke said these;

*Link Removed* 

That blitz was intentional for Tobirama plan. 

And about Hashirama's statement; Hashirama was weaker than his original due to both Orochimaru and Madara. And same Madara didnt even worried about Obito taking over Juubi before himself. That Madara owned by Hashirama then Madara become alive and he owned him. Its not means Juubito waaaay stronger than full power Hashirama.

And ıf you guys want to play this game, here it is;

This size of an senjutsu technic

*Link Removed* 

Did this to Juubito;

*Link Removed* 
*Link Removed* 

This size of it;


Is a death sentence !

-------------------------------------------------------

And about the topic, dont ever mix Boruto feats and new kishimoto works after 700 chapter Naruto series as canon imo. Cuz they too inconsistent and terribly sucks. And I dont think Juubito is the weakest God Tier cuz if we're gonna count boruto feats then clearly momoshiki and kinshiki are the lowest dudes. Actualy they not even God Tier imo.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 23, 2019)

Turrin said:


> It is seemingly hard for them to put together a credible argument though


I literally just presented you with one that shuts down your whole argument.


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## Turrin (Apr 23, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I literally just presented you with one that shuts down your whole argument.


Which would be...


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 23, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Which would be...





Isaiah13000 said:


> Turrin... did you purposely ignore or just forget about this feat?
> This objectively completely blows your ridiculous notion that the scales aren't that different completely out the window. Hashirama, as well as Madara, even if they were working together would be effortlessly one-shot by this shit. This on a completely different scale than anything the two of them produced for a fact. What makes your argument even worse, is that this was done by the V2 Ten-Tails, not the V3 Ten-Tails, which Obito absorbed and could produce four TBBs with, each one being stronger than this one. If this doesn't make you open your eyes and see the astronomical difference in power between God tiers and the founders then I don't know what will.


Did you miss my post or something?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Apr 23, 2019)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Did you miss my post or something?


Yeah I in a 7 page thread I did.

And no I’m not ignoring that feat I’m just comparing the two closest scans. The Juubidama scan I posted was also near the shoreline so it’s easier to scale to Hashirama and Madara clash which was also on the shore line. The scan your posting looks larger but we can’t really te because there is no frame of reference in comparison; versus the other one we can compare base on the explosion size and the ocean.

Also the whole explosion comparing thing really isn’t the crux of my argument other posters were using that so I just pointed out to them that Hashirama mech also survived an explosion on the size of a Juubidama. Ultimately if Obito wants to overcome Hashirama with raw power he can, I just think it will be with his strongest move (Multiple Juubi TBB or Large Juubi TBB) which is mid/high diff, and not the stomp / low diff scenarios people have been citing


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## Ersa (Apr 24, 2019)

Eh, I don't dig it.

Going strictly off the canon material of the manga, The Last and Boruto movie, I think it's abundantly clear the upper eccelon of god tiers like RSM Naruto/Sasuke are on a vastly different level, in all metrics. Boruto may be "canon" but if it contradicts anything in the original I'm going to ignore it and the Kages were mostly useless in the movie, akin to Sakura in the Kaguya fight. Shin pulled off his feat against a office worker, rusty Naruto trying to protect some kids and Sasuke who was exhausted from his chakra teleporting to the point of not being able to maintain his tomoe in his Rinnegan/Sharingan.

I think TL/Boruto Sasuke could defeat Hashirama with just his regular Sharingan. TL Naruto could do it with regular SM. Realistically the boost to their base forms from Six Paths chakra was big enough that they only need a fraction of their full power to deal with people like Hashirama and Nagato.


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## Nuttynutdude (Apr 25, 2019)

Android said:


> retarded JJ Obito


I must have the maturity of a child because reading this just made me laugh so hard


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## Nuttynutdude (Apr 25, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Im making this thread to address one of the biggest misconceptions in the NBD. Many posters seem to believe there is some massive gap between even the weakest “God Tier”, which in many’s opinion is Juubito, and other very strong characters like Hashirama, Pre Juubi Madara, and so on. However this is largely contradicted by the Manga and will only continue to be contradicted further as the Boruto series continues.
> 
> So let me flesh out why it’s contradicted. First ask yourself do you consider the Boruto Gokage to be vastly above the level of Hashirama or even BSM Naruto? Because we saw Kuro, Chojuro, Darui, and Gaara all take on Ootsuki who are stronger then Juubito... We even saw Chojuro and Kuro largely have an ootsuki defeated by themselves with minor assistance from Sasuke. And even if you want to write that off as Kodachi trolling. The script for the Boruto movie is written by Kishimoto which has a similar event occur.
> 
> ...


I see where you're coming from with the Boruto crap, but we can scale it based off of Naruto, the objectively better and consistent series:

Hashirama was, of course, very very powerful. Obito kinda blitz fked him before he could react in the same way the Raikage would do so to a regular Jonin.

SM Madara was going to throw down with him(not saying Madara was stronger than Juubito) and Madara ALSO got a stronger version of the Juubi and one of his rinnegan. This Madara was so strong Guy thought he had to open the 8th gate, and even STILL he both needed assistance from the strongest kage the world had seen and Kakashi, a tactical genius and user of the busted jutsu: Kamui, and for Madara to overestimate him to not even kill Madara.

Naruto comes back from seeing Hagaromo and blitz fks Madara worse than Guy could with help, and Madara gets his second eye and is able to almost hold his own against both Naruto and Sasuke.

Even starting from the weakest, Obito, he utterly destroyed Hashirama, who was, before Obito absorbed the Juubi, the strongest force on the battlefield bar the Juubi itself, and Obito had to be nerfed by Kishimoto to not have Kamui


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## Woodward (Apr 25, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Let’s disregard that then. You seem to think Juunbito wins due to having such a staggeringly higher raw power then Hashirama. So let’s address
> 
> 
> Here we get a good perspective of Juubi TBB.
> ...



Your scaling is so bad, and you need to get your eyes fixed.

That dust smoke in the VOTE clash you posted reaches only to the same elevation as the clouds, which gives it a height of 6,500 feet or 2km. Not only that, it's just the smoke and not an actual explosion like Jubi TBB. Clouds only reach to this extent to the V2 Jubi TBB:



It's pathetic how you're comparing a clash of maximum power, which only produced a small valley to a casual attack where the explosion is so huge it dwarfs curvature of the planet. Even Nagato's fire-power is superior to the founders.

Honestly, the ones who are over-wanked the founders. The likes of Nagato, Rinnegan Obito and BM Minato are above them.


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## Turrin (Apr 25, 2019)

Nuttynutdude said:


> I see where you're coming from with the Boruto crap, but we can scale it based off of Naruto, the objectively better and consistent series:
> 
> Hashirama was, of course, very very powerful. Obito kinda blitz fked him before he could react in the same way the Raikage would do so to a regular Jonin.
> 
> ...


Your basing this on how a wood clone performed that’s like saying Onoki can beat 5 Madara since he beat his wood clones


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## Icegaze (Apr 25, 2019)

But Boruto manga is dog poo
And has no business being discussed on a NARUTO forum 
Not the same writer 
Plot full of PIS


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## Nuttynutdude (Apr 26, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Your basing this on how a wood clone performed that’s like saying Onoki can beat 5 Madara since he beat his wood clones


Or we can also look at the fact that Hashirama used a jutsu he needed sage mode to perform and it didn't faze even the retarded unstable Juubito


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## Turrin (Apr 26, 2019)

Nuttynutdude said:


> Or we can also look at the fact that Hashirama used a jutsu he needed sage mode to perform and it didn't faze even the retarded unstable Juubito


A weakened Hashirama sealing Jutsu failing doesn’t mean that Hashirama could perform well enough against Juubito. I mean I’m just saying it wouldn’t be a stomp between the two


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## Nuttynutdude (May 1, 2019)

Turrin said:


> A weakened Hashirama sealing Jutsu failing doesn’t mean that Hashirama could perform well enough against Juubito. I mean I’m just saying it wouldn’t be a stomp between the two


That weakened Hashirama sealing jutsu also held down the 10 tails


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## Icegaze (May 1, 2019)

Actually in kishi manga he defines what a god is and said god tier isn’t overrated 
In KISHI MANGA the first hint of god like powers was Madara bringing down a meteor 
Next time he hinted to god like powers was with omyouton 

Tobirama being god level is a fan fic brought on by one individual for trolling purposes 

However once again in kishi manga god tier is far from overrated 

@Turrin


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