# Top 10 Most Selling Manga Of 2011



## Animeace (Nov 30, 2011)

Japanese Oricon has released the top 10(actually full list is 50 but just doing the 10XD) most selling manga series in Japan for the year 2011* 
*
01 ? One Piece: 37,996,373 copies.
02 ? Naruto: 6,874,840 copies.
03 ? Blue Exorcist: 5,223,712 copies.
04 ? Fairy Tail: 4,701,596 copies.
05 ? Toriko: 4,665,634 copies.
06 ? Gintama: 4,415,491 copies.
07 ? Bakuman: 4.,399,938 copies.
08 ? Bleach: 4,187,258 copies.
09 ? Kimi ni Todoke: 4,109,481 copies.
10 ? Gantz: 4,056,981 copies.

LOl One Piece just not even fair cant believe Bule Exorcist is so high.


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## Indignant Guile (Nov 30, 2011)

just posting the top 10...gives a very eschewed picture


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## B Rabbit (Nov 30, 2011)

Same as last year, One Piece outclasses everyone. 


I wonder what America's is like this year?


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## Akatora (Nov 30, 2011)

how many volumes are each series represented by?


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## Raptorz (Nov 30, 2011)

One Piece dominates again.

Dat Oda


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## Akatora (Nov 30, 2011)

note for comparing Toriko with bleach on that list:


bleach

49 
50
51
52


so should be representated by 4(newest oct 4'th)


Toriko

13
14
15
16
17


So be reprensentated by 5 volumes so far (newest from nov 4'th)


Bleach = 1 046 814,5 a volume
Toriko =  933 126,8 a volume

Not much of a gap but bleach is stil labove Toriko in sales


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## Hatifnatten (Nov 30, 2011)

> 01 – One Piece: 37,996,373 copies.


smh                 .


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## Raid3r2010 (Nov 30, 2011)

One Piece wins again. 

On the other hand Toriko's growing is astonishing.


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## Animeace (Nov 30, 2011)

Indignant Guile said:


> just posting the top 10...gives a very eschewed picture



Dont see how it could be screwed ranking is just for this year should be obvious where not talking total volume sales.  Toriko and Exorcist on the rise wander if they can maintain that. Surprised bleach not in top 3 it really has fallen and with the current arch dont see it picking back up for a while release Aizen and all will be fixed thoXD


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## Gilgamesh (Nov 30, 2011)

I know it happens all the time but OP outselling No.2 by over 30 million is hilarious


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## Space (Nov 30, 2011)

One Piece sold almost around the same number of copies what the rest of the top 10 sold COMBINED. Oda needs his own Jump

Lol at bleach dropping in the rankings, even Gintama sold better, geez


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## Jet Pistol (Nov 30, 2011)

Here's the link. 
One Piece taking the lead. Again. 
Good to know Toriko's doing well. 
Shingeki no Kyojin in 11. :33


Here's 2010's sales if you want to compare.


Friends are gonna be an mad denial and call this fake that One Piece does this good.


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## Akatora (Nov 30, 2011)

Animeace said:


> Dont see how it could be screwed ranking is just for this year should be obvious where not talking total volume sales.  Toriko and Exorcist on the rise wander if they can maintain that. Surprised bleach not in top 3 it really has fallen and with the current arch dont see it picking back up for a while release Aizen and all will be fixed thoXD




If bleach's 5'th volume this year sell as the others volumes have Bleach'll end at: 5 234 072,5 volumes sold

so if Blue Exorcist don't have more volumes comming in 2011 bleach will be a little above that which would make bleach in the top 3... so meh



Edit:


kinda sick with OP being this high even though there so far has only been 3 new volumes this year unless there's some kind of special volume
so a damn lot of people have bought other than the newest vol of OP


naruto got 4 new volumes this year


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## Matta Clatta (Nov 30, 2011)

WOW Gantz is pretty popular 
I wasn't expecting it to do that well this year

I don't know why people are raving about Bleach's position the difference isn't really that large at all imo
Every series top 4 and down sold over 4 million copies


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## Malvingt2 (Nov 30, 2011)

Long life to the King!!! all I have to say.. Shocking people are still buying Naruto..


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## Furious George (Nov 30, 2011)

One Piece's sales are ridiculous.


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## convict (Nov 30, 2011)

Nice to see Hunter x Hunter at a solid 13. Slowly and steadily it is sinking its teeth once more into the Japanese public. If the author doesn't take another break soon, it looks very promising. But that is still a dream for now. 

And asides from One Piece, which has miraculously sold even more than it did last year, and a few exceptions, the other hit Manga seem to have had a decrease overall. Perhaps because of volume count, I am not sure.


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## Judge Fudge (Nov 30, 2011)

Bleach's manga sales 

2008 - 3,161,825 (VOL. 32-36)
2009 - 6,471,021 (105% increase) (VOL. 37-42)
2010 - 5,204,193 (20% decrease) (VOL. 43-48)
2011 - 4,187,258 (20% decrease) (VOL. 49-52)

Ouch



Akatora said:


> If bleach's 5'th volume this year sell as the others volumes have Bleach'll end at: 5 234 072,5 volumes sold
> 
> so if Blue Exorcist don't have more volumes comming in 2011 bleach will be a little above that which would make bleach in the top 3... so meh


Volume 53 is'nt weighted into the Oricon sales chart because it just came out and the tally is only from November so it'll be listed for next year. Volume 48 of Bleach is listed for 2011 despite the fact that it was released last November.


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## Ennoea (Nov 30, 2011)

Must be alot of OP volumes out there being used as door stops.


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## geG (Nov 30, 2011)

Akatora said:


> note for comparing Toriko with bleach on that list:
> 
> 
> bleach
> ...



True that Bleach still sells more per volume, but your math is wrong in that in these lists, volumes from December of last year count as this year, so Bleach had five volumes (48, 49, 50, 51, 52) and Toriko had six (12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17) making 837,452 for Bleach and 777,606 for Toriko.


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## Luffyfangirl24 (Nov 30, 2011)

Wow, big gap between One Piece and the other manga  Didn't know Fairy Tail did that well, number 4??? Oh, hey don't see Bleach.


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## luffy no haki (Nov 30, 2011)

One Piece in first place is great news but  just not amusing anymore.

Still if ya get in which place is Beelzebub please tell me


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## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Nov 30, 2011)

on a per-volume basis, hxh is the second best selling 

(after ridiculous one piece )


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## Mist Puppet (Nov 30, 2011)

Luffyfangirl24 said:


> Oh, hey don't see Bleach.



Bleach is 8th.


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## luffy no haki (Nov 30, 2011)

What i still don?t get is why Bleach keeps being in the top 10 when there are a few mangas  way better than it. Think japanese readers have just bad taste lately.


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## BrokenBonds (Nov 30, 2011)

Surprised Bleach is even in the top 10.


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## dream (Nov 30, 2011)

Once again One Piece has another wonder year.


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## Aldric (Nov 30, 2011)

Why the fuck is Blue Exorcist so popular

I checked the first chapter after seeing this ranking and it looks like an utterly generic mishmash of D Gray Man, Reborn, Beelzebub, 666 Satan and a hundred other unremarkable shonen


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## Sarun (Nov 30, 2011)

^^ You should read more than 1st chapter.


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## Aldric (Nov 30, 2011)

No fuck you I'm not going to waste my time reading that garbage guy with a Fairy Tail avatar and Uchiha in his username


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## Animeace (Dec 1, 2011)

luffy no haki said:


> One Piece in first place is great news but  just not amusing anymore.
> 
> Still if ya get in which place is Beelzebub please tell me



It's 15th all thanks to dem wet nurses and Hilda. Beel is boss


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## Raptorz (Dec 1, 2011)

If my memory serves me right, didn't Onepiece sell 20+ million copies last year? That's a huge increase in sales.


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## Animeace (Dec 1, 2011)

Raptorz said:


> If my memory serves me right, didn't Onepiece sell 20+ million copies last year? That's a huge increase in sales.



From the link jet posted it sold 32 last year so it sold 6 mill more than it's previous record. I wander just how much percentage Oda get per volume sold I know mangaka dont get paid a lot but with these type of numbers im sure he demands a lot more if not he should he would definitely have the advantge in this money making horse.


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## p-lou (Dec 1, 2011)

haha yes

saint young men still gets close to the top ten every year even though it gets about 2 new volumes a year

i still don't know how there can be 7 volumes of material with it though

but oh yeah whoo comics for young people sell a lot

big shocker


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## p-lou (Dec 1, 2011)

Aldric said:


> No fuck you I'm not going to waste my time reading that garbage guy with a Fairy Tail avatar and Uchiha in his username



no comment on


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## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Dec 1, 2011)

[37.996million copies*Y63(15% royalties for veteran mangakas, Y420 per copy)]/80(~1 USD to JPY)= *$29,921,850*

jesus


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## Animeace (Dec 1, 2011)

chikkychappy said:


> [37.996million copies*Y63(15% royalties for veteran mangakas, Y420 per copy)]/80(~1 USD to JPY)= *$29,921,850*
> 
> jesus



Lord have mercy you figure he pays a lot of taxes too tho. Still Oda be big pimpin it


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## Twinsen (Dec 1, 2011)

Damn, One Piece is destroying the competition lol.

Very nice to see Toriko up there, hope it will steadily rise to take the 2nd spot next year.


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## Kyu (Dec 1, 2011)

Holy shit, One Piece is doing great!


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## Malvingt2 (Dec 1, 2011)

Aldric said:


> Why the fuck is *Blue Exorcist* so popular
> 
> I checked the first chapter after seeing this ranking and it looks like an utterly generic mishmash of D Gray Man, Reborn, Beelzebub, 666 Satan and a hundred other unremarkable shonen


 it is really decent.


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## Grumpy Zoro (Dec 1, 2011)

Is Shounen Jump dependandt on One Piece or what? Those numbers are ridiculous.


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## Magikbyrd (Dec 1, 2011)

One Piece rules.

These numbers ARE outrageous.


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## MdB (Dec 1, 2011)

lol Bleach.



Aldric said:


> No fuck you I'm not going to waste my time reading that garbage guy with a Fairy Tail avatar and Uchiha in his username



It's pretty decent, actually.


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## Judge Fudge (Dec 1, 2011)

raziu said:


> Is Shounen Jump dependandt on One Piece or what? Those numbers are ridiculous.


Not really. If you look at the list pretty much all the top selling manga this year are from Jump (Shuiesha) so they have a plethora of stromg selling francjise still running it's just that One Piece gives it an incredibly crazy lead over the competition that it seems unfair


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## Hatifnatten (Dec 1, 2011)

Mostly ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) hating on Bleach. Yup, I'm in library alright.



Judge Fudge said:


> Bleach's manga sales
> 
> 2008 - 3,161,825 (VOL. 32-36)
> 2009 - 6,471,021 (105% increase) (VOL. 37-42)
> ...


Yeah, always in top 10, fucking ouch man, fucking ouch.


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## Syed (Dec 1, 2011)

One Piece annihilation as usual.

Can't believe that Exorcist manga is so high, rather have Shingeki take its spot instead.


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## Thdyingbreed (Dec 1, 2011)

One Piece in the lead no suprise there, nice to see Toriko doing good in the top 5 for it's first year.


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## Velocity (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh well, at least we know one thing - there'll be a One Piece Z a little while after One Piece ends. They're never going to let Oda end something so popular and lucrative.


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## Danchou (Dec 1, 2011)

It's a shame though that popularity still does not equalize quality.

The OP volumes that were released in 2011 are one of Oda's weakest works.


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## αshɘs (Dec 1, 2011)

The last time a list like this was posted Gantz was also in the top 10, I think. So is it like the best selling seinen now? Anyone know how series like BotI, Vinland Saga, Dorohedoro, Last Order, Punpun etc are doing?


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## God Movement (Dec 1, 2011)

Danchou said:


> It's a shame though that popularity still does not equalize quality.
> 
> The OP volumes that were released in 2011 are one of Oda's weakest works.



While that is true, outselling the 2nd place by 30 million copies can ONLY be due to quality. Quality based on his previous volumes sure, but quality nonetheless. Being in the dominant position he's in he can afford to make a few duds.


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## BlueDemon (Dec 1, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> smh                 .





Ennoea said:


> Must be alot of OP volumes out there being used as door stops.



Some people are just in denial 



Danchou said:


> It's a shame though that popularity still does not equalize quality.
> 
> The OP volumes that were released in 2011 are one of Oda's weakest works.



You have a point there, but just wait for the bigger picture =)



God Movement said:


> While that is true, outselling the 2nd place by 30 million copies can ONLY be due to quality. Quality based on his previous volumes sure, but quality nonetheless. Being in the dominant position he's in he can afford to make a few duds.



I agree, even if I don?t think those were "duds". He would?ve been able to do it better, yes, but I think he had to rush it...
Anyway, nothing changes the fact that One Piece is great.

Didn?t think FT would fare that well, also didn?t hear of the Blue Exorcist till now...


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## Superstars (Dec 1, 2011)

Danchou said:


> It's a shame though that popularity still does not equalize quality.
> 
> The OP volumes that were released in 2011 are one of Oda's weakest works.



/Thread...


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## Teppei (Dec 1, 2011)

Just happy to see Toriko doing so well 
It may not be in the top 3 yet, but it's doing good for a Shounen that hasn't even reached 200 chapters.

One Piece dominating is no surprise though, but it's a shame Bleach has been on a decline recently. I guess I'm one of the few who's actually enjoying the Fullbring arc...
Anyway, Fairy Tail seems to have gained some popularity in recent times, and,  hopefully, this'll force Mashima to step up his game. The world he's created has a lot of potential, and the recent time-skip seems like the perfect time to get serious with the story.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Dec 1, 2011)

While I really enjoyed AnE at the start and I still do like it I'm really surprised seeing it high up. But I guess it kind of has the easy to get into formula to it. But oh hey, is that a Natsume I see hovering around a 37 or am I engaging in wishful thinking?


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## luffy no haki (Dec 1, 2011)

Animeace said:


> It's 15th all thanks to dem wet nurses and Hilda. Beel is boss



We need it in the top 10!!!

thx for the info, man


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## KnockxKnock (Dec 1, 2011)

I think am a hipster, the kind of popularity of One Piece makes me that I like it less. 

It's great... but that great?


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## Deer_Hunter_ (Dec 1, 2011)

Hatifnatten said:


> Mostly ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) hating on Bleach. Yup, I'm in library alright.
> 
> 
> Yeah, always in top 10, fucking ouch man, fucking ouch.



Mmm Bleach sucks.


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## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Dec 1, 2011)

Sweet! Gintama finally beat Bakuman. 
Next year - it aims to topple Toriko and Fairy Tail
Year after that - Naruto
And the year after that - One Piece, then Gintama will be crowned Shounen King!


*Spoiler*: __ 



A fan can dream. q_q


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 1, 2011)

No grudges about the others but the best manga on this chart is 47th. 

No Vinland Saga and Gantz 10th (above Shingeki WTF) .

I'm happy for Uchu Kyodai.


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## EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! (Dec 1, 2011)

Bubi said:
			
		

> No grudges about the others but the best manga on this chart is 47th.



True. Very true. 

Also, don't give out GOT spoilers man, whatsamatterwhichchoo.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 1, 2011)

I love Blue exorcist, but im surprised its doing so well. 

Toriko is going to continue to rise no surprise there.


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## Space (Dec 1, 2011)

The fact that One Piece is outselling the rest of the manga with those ridiculous numbers means One Piece's fanbase is growing every year and with mad numbers at that. New OP fans can buy around 60 volumes, while existing fans will only buy the new volumes, which is 4-5 max per year. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where the money is.

One Piece is huge in Japan and it's getting even bigger, because whoever is managing their PR and marketing is doing a hell of a job.

The worst that can happen to a manga is a fanbase getting smaller and smaller *coughbleachcough* - that's the cue for the mangaka to either step up or step out, because if nothing changes, it won't last much longer.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 1, 2011)

One piece is the shit, its just a matter of time before One piece gets another go in America and with 4kids being bankrupt there is no one left to fuck it up.

Its going to keep making more and more money.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Dec 1, 2011)

Huh Shingeki no Kyojin just missed the top ten.


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## Ennoea (Dec 1, 2011)

It's amusing to see Op get more and more popular, as the manga is devolving in to a stream of mediocrity.


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## Akatora (Dec 1, 2011)

Ennoea said:


> It's amusing to see Op get more and more popular, as the manga is devolving in to a stream of mediocrity.



it's always been medicore, but exceptionally popular

Oda got a hard time once his fans start asking questions to what he does since in the past the fans have pretty much accepted whatever he drew oiut of the hat


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## Mizura (Dec 1, 2011)

It isn't really surprising for One Piece to do better than last year, really. It's the timeskip. The arc before was supposed to be epic too, as a conclusion to Part I. So, many people are buying to see how much the Star Hats grew.

I'm also curious if those sales numbers only apply to new volumes or also to old ones. One Piece has a Lot of volumes out. With the timeskip, it might have made many people interested in buying the other volumes they're missing, too. We don't know the situation in Japan, but I also wouldn't be surprised if to celebrate Part II, they released a new edition or made a package offer of the older volumes.

I'm not trying to belittle One Piece sales though, even without all that it's still annihilating the competition.


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## p-lou (Dec 1, 2011)

αshɘs said:


> The last time a list like this was posted Gantz was also in the top 10, I think. So is it like the best selling seinen now? Anyone know how series like BotI, Vinland Saga, Dorohedoro, Last Order, Punpun etc are doing?





list in english

none of those are mentioned

real, bunny drop, saint young men, and thermae romae are all there.  dunno if they release outside the top 50.

i think real was higher the last few years


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## Stilzkin (Dec 2, 2011)

Ennoea said:


> It's amusing to see Op get more and more popular, as the manga is devolving in to a stream of mediocrity.



It makes no sense to say a series is devolving into mediocrity after one arc is being generally disliked by fans. devolving would suggest some continious poor output. FI didn't even fail to meet expectations until it got somewhere around halfway. The villain was a failure on Oda's part but before that fans seemed as content as always.

If you are going to say you disliked the War Arc or something along those lines you should acknowledge thats not everyone's opinion. FI seems to be generally disliked but most other arcs have their fans and their haters.


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## Indignant Guile (Dec 2, 2011)

Guys were clamoring for that FI arc, too. Well they got it.


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## God Movement (Dec 2, 2011)

^ I never was. Bring on the New World.


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## SAFFF (Dec 2, 2011)

why the fuck is Real so low on the chart?

I kinda expected HXH to be higher. Hopefully it'll get even more volumes next year. @_@


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## Aldric (Dec 2, 2011)

Danchou said:


> It's a shame though that popularity still does not equalize quality.
> 
> The OP volumes that were released in 2011 are one of Oda's weakest works.



But it still is a thousand time better than the utterly irredeemable rubbish that follows it in the top ten so everything's fine in the world


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## Storminator Steel (Dec 2, 2011)

What bothers me most is that people are seriousley supporting Gantz.


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## BlueDemon (Dec 2, 2011)

Storminator Steel said:


> What bothers me most is that people are seriousley supporting Gantz.



Well, Gantz WAS good...some arcs ago. I don?t really like the Giant Stuff, but hey....!

Just waiting for it to end now ^^


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## Han Solo (Dec 2, 2011)

Gantz is the top ten is worst thing on this list by far. I think Kubo is the biggest hack in the world surpassed by only Oh! Great world but damn I'd read Bleach over Gantz any day. Gantz is a complete abortion of a manga.

And yeah REAL is better than every other manga on this list aswell. By quite a bit.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 2, 2011)

Gantz is good overall its not amazing but I agree shingeki no kyojin is better and the other "mature" shonen are better then it.


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## RamzaBeoulve (Dec 2, 2011)

S.A.F said:


> why the fuck is Real so low on the chart?
> 
> *I kinda expected HXH to be higher*. Hopefully it'll get even more volumes next year. @_@


It's only that high because it sold 2 new volumes this year instead of 5 volumes like all the other WSJ titles.

It would have been 3rd with around 6,000,000 copies if it sold normally.


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## Golden Witch (Dec 2, 2011)

Animeace said:


> Japanese Oricon has released the top 10(actually full list is 50 but just doing the 10XD) most selling manga series in Japan for the year 2011*
> *
> 01 ? One Piece: 37,996,373 copies.
> 02 ? Naruto: 6,874,840 copies.
> ...



Only thing I feel like complaining about is the lack of Beelzebub while Gantz is in there.
Oh well.


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## luffy no haki (Dec 2, 2011)

What affected hunter x hunter in sales was the hiatuses, there is no much to buy when the manga just advances around 15 chapters each time Togashi comes back.


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## Lucciola (Dec 2, 2011)

> 1	One Piece #61	Eiichiro Oda	3,382,588
> 2	One Piece #62	Eiichiro Oda	3,207,568
> 3	One Piece #63	Eiichiro Oda	3,073,175
> 4	One Piece #64	Eiichiro Oda	2,652,700



The sales of recent OP volumes weren't as good. But the decreasing numbers are almost insignificant compared to the overall sales.

HxH is doing well for a manga with constant hiatuses and no anime to boot up the sales.


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## Ennoea (Dec 2, 2011)

HxH does well, the kids don't buy it though.


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## hgfdsahjkl (Dec 2, 2011)

HxH isn't there because only two volumes were released a few month ago

as manga HxH is 3rd best selling ,just behind Naruto and with new anime,I think it's safe it will be no.2

the other manga had several volumes who were released earlier


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## Magic (Dec 2, 2011)

Aldric said:


> Why the fuck is Blue Exorcist so popular
> 
> I checked the first chapter after seeing this ranking and it looks like an utterly generic mishmash of D Gray Man, Reborn, Beelzebub, 666 Satan and a hundred other unremarkable shonen





sarun uchiha said:


> ^^ You should read more than 1st chapter.





Aldric said:


> No fuck you I'm not going to waste my time reading that garbage guy with a Fairy Tail avatar and Uchiha in his username



aw man can't stop laughing.


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## Santoryu (Dec 2, 2011)

dirtiness stationed at this level


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## Stilzkin (Dec 2, 2011)

Han Solo said:


> Gantz is the top ten is worst thing on this list by far. I think Kubo is the biggest hack in the world surpassed by only Oh! Great world but damn I'd read Bleach over Gantz any day. Gantz is a complete abortion of a manga.



Gantz is much less annoying than Bleach, I can accept Gantz as sort of pointless series of killing, plotless story because it never seems to have promised more. Bleach on the other hand keeps trying to do plots but they are just horrible. Even the action in Bleach is getting horrible with its ink splash slashing.


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## KLoWn (Dec 2, 2011)

Santoryu said:


> dirtiness stationed at this level


Wow, the One Piece sub-section all combined into one man, i dunno if i should laugh or cry. Meh, i'll just laugh for now 

Im actually curious if the OPtards realize that that's how they look to everyone else when they run around jizzing over One Piece.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 2, 2011)

Actually this forum right here is the only forum I've been too with bad One Piece fans. 

The majority of One Piece fans are pretty humble. 

Although this forum has the worst fanbase for every series to date.


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## KLoWn (Dec 2, 2011)

B Rabbit said:


> Actually this forum right here is the only forum I've been too with bad One Piece fans.
> 
> The majority of One Piece fans are pretty humble.


If it weren't for the fact that i haven't visited that place in years, i would say that Arlong's Park is equally bad, but i don't know if that place even exists anymore.


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## KnockxKnock (Dec 2, 2011)

Ennoea said:


> HxH does well, the kids don't buy it though.



Kids these days.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 2, 2011)

Arlong Parks the equivalent of Naruto forums.  There just not nearly as bad. 

I'm talking about forums that actually matter. 


If One Piece was mediocrety and horrible, then how in the world would it have sold 30+million volumes in One Piece? It's obviously better then 75% of the mangas/animes out there. 

Though if we wanna go on quality it would be.

JoJo's Bizzare Adventure
Vinland Saga
Bastard
Berserk

The rest


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## geG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lapis Lazuli said:


> The sales of recent OP volumes weren't as good. But the decreasing numbers are almost insignificant compared to the overall sales.
> 
> HxH is doing well for a manga with constant hiatuses and no anime to boot up the sales.



The decreasing sales thing is pretty common with all the series on this list. The more recent the volume, the less time it's been available and the less sales it has.


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## KLoWn (Dec 2, 2011)

B Rabbit said:


> If One Piece was mediocrety and horrible, then how in the world would it have sold 30+million volumes in One Piece? It's obviously better then 75% of the mangas/animes out there.


Is this directed at me? Because i never said One Piece was horrible nor mediocre.
Even though those two words would perfectly summarize the current arc.



B Rabbit said:


> Though if we wanna go on quality it would be.
> 
> JoJo's Bizzare Adventure
> Vinland Saga
> ...


No Shin Angyo Onshi?


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## Syed (Dec 2, 2011)

Santoryu said:


> Ch.12



lol no one cares what this loud mouth loser thinks.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 2, 2011)

KLoWn said:


> Is this directed at me? Because i never said One Piece was horrible nor mediocre.
> Even though those two words would perfectly summarize the current arc.
> 
> 
> No Shin Angyo Onshi?



Nothing was going at you, there where others poster who stated this. I was just striking conversation with you. I too really don't like this arc. When it comes to pros and cons.

Pros:
Chapters focused on SH
Jimbei
The highlights and focus on the racist issue (Which was really good considering it's a complex issue in real life and Oda really hit the home run when it comes to this.)
The Sh's Onehit KO.

Cons-
Everything else was horrible and there were no like able characters and oda forced us to know the histories of characters I really don't give a shit about. 

I'd give this arc a 6/10 there were so many bad things the good sides can't possibly make up for it.

Also I never read Shin Angyo Onoshi, what's it about?


----------



## Butcher (Dec 2, 2011)

Great to see Gantz in there .

Though Beelzebub at #1 wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## KLoWn (Dec 2, 2011)

B Rabbit said:


> Also I never read Shin Angyo Onoshi, what's it about?


Just read the summary, it does a better job at explaining it than i ever would anyway.
Ch.12

It's Berserk levels of epic, it's a must read.

My old sig for nostalgic purposes~


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 2, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Great to see Gantz in there .
> 
> *Though Beelzebub at #1 wouldn't hurt either*.



Thats never going to happen lol.



Han Solo said:


> Gantz is the top ten is worst thing on this list by far. I think Kubo is the biggest hack in the world surpassed by only Oh! Great world but damn I'd read Bleach over Gantz any day. Gantz is a complete abortion of a manga.
> 
> *And yeah REAL is better than every other manga on this list aswell. By quite a bit*.



You mean that stupid Basketball manga. Just like all the other sport based manga's it sucks, although bowling king was enjoyable for awhile. 

I will say this REAL>Bleach.


----------



## Butcher (Dec 3, 2011)

RumbleKing Yoshitsune said:


> Thats never going to happen lol.


I can dream.

Anyways where is Berserk on this list? I can't read Japanese.

I'm surprised a seinen manga was in the Top 10. Usually unless you're Berserk you get overshadowed by Shounen most of the time.


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## B Rabbit (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not a fan of sports manga myself, but Slam Dunk was good, if REAL is anything like that I'll check it out.


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## Fourangers (Dec 3, 2011)

It's not surprising One Piece's being the most selling manga, but it does surprise me the huge difference between One Piece and Naruto. 

I'm actually surprised that Naruto is second though. 

Other thing I'm surprised is Ao no Exorcist. Why is this thing famous? Bland characters, bland plot, bland art, bland with everything. AND it's a Hellboy rip-off, which is unforgivable.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 3, 2011)

Blue Exorcist>>>>>>Hell boy.


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## Kathutet (Dec 3, 2011)

Santoryu said:


> Ch.12


lmao

i'd say kill it with fire but even fire would dodge that friend like bush dodges shoes


----------



## Pervy Fox (Dec 3, 2011)

I thought Sonic fans are the worst but after seeing that video I was dead wrong. 

Hope HxH will climb back to the top again, but due to Togashi's high chances of hiatuses, that wont happen.


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## Koshirae (Dec 3, 2011)

Once again Oda is the king, and considering we haven't even entered New World yet, One Piece is going to sell 50M+ yearly whenever that happens.


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## Soul (Dec 3, 2011)

I still don't know why is OP so appealing nor why is Fairy Tail/Gantz in the Top 10.


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## Koshirae (Dec 3, 2011)

Soul said:


> I still don't know why is OP so appealing nor why is Fairy Tail/Gantz in the Top 10.



Let's see:

The main characters are awesome. People should know that One Piece is not only about Luffy it's about 9 Straw Hat Pirates(possibly 10 soon) who all have their own goals, if you wish to know their goals check the video in my link.

Also the plot is just unique, One Piece may start a bit slow but once you enter the Grand Line it turns into something so good where you will get emotionally attached to. You'll see some of the best arcs around where loads of unexpected things happen. Let's just put it short, One Piece has it all, awesome characters, loads of humor, exciting fights, fun adventures, heartbreaking moments.

About the art style, it's good but you just have to get used to it. It's true that it's not the same as certain other manga's, but that's what it makes it so good the art style fits the characters perfectly.


----------



## sasuki-chan (Dec 3, 2011)

wow one piece number are incredible 0___o. Congrats to Oda. Personally I could never get into it (stopped at volume 5 because I still couldn't grow attached to the characters except maybe luffy)

Naruto 2nd. well I pretty much stopped reading it and think it becomes lame and boring with part 2

I'm surprised with ao no exorcist. I totally love it and is one of my fav right now but I didn't know it was that popular in japan. I love it mainly for the great cast and relationship between the characters, something a lot of manga I loved is lacking nowadays  (naruto, bleach mainly). 
Love ft too, for the fanservice and the lulz mosty 

bleach...now I just look at the pretty cp. I guess that's what happens when you don't plan anything ahead

random: shingeki no kyojin should be higher than that, it's awesome. kimi no todoke and bakuman became boring, should be lower. where is negima?


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## Aldric (Dec 3, 2011)

sasuki-chan said:


> random: shingeki no kyojin should be higher than that, it's awesome.



It's already a miracle it's so popular given its artstyle, storyline, atmosphere and how it doesn't have tits, pseudo cool posing douchebag pretty boys, gratuitous gore or anything that has mainstream appeal


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (Dec 3, 2011)

RumbleKing Yoshitsune said:


> Thats never going to happen lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



slam dunk + ippo


----------



## Neelon (Dec 3, 2011)

One piece is still selling that well even though it's been subpar for years...

Bleach sinking deep and deeper. Next year I guess it's will be dumped out of the top 10 .

Next year Toriko and Hunterxhunter will dominate this shit hopefully.


----------



## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

KLoWn said:


> Wow, the One Piece sub-section all combined into one man, i dunno if i should laugh or cry. Meh, i'll just laugh for now
> 
> Im actually curious if the OPtards realize that that's how they look to everyone else when they run around jizzing over One Piece.



Get that stick out of your ass and realize that fans of the other major shounen series would've done the exact same thing if their favorite manga was selling that many copies.


----------



## Mei Lin (Dec 3, 2011)

Fuck yes blue Exorcist  become.weekly now us fan fangirls will crush this manga empire with our money


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## αshɘs (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Anyways where is Berserk on this list? I can't read Japanese.



Nowhere. One volume/year releases coupled with its current quality aren't going to help its sales much, I assume.



B Rabbit said:


> I'm not a fan of sports manga myself, but Slam Dunk was good, *if REAL is anything like that* I'll check it out.



Compared to SD's upbeat atmosphere and sport heaviness, REAL is a drama not focusing on the sport.


----------



## Butcher (Dec 3, 2011)

Soul said:


> I still don't know why is OP so appealing nor why is Fairy Tail/Gantz in the Top 10.


Fairy Tail and One Piece are two things that you just read for the fun of it. It is not many to be taken seriously, and as you can see that is how they get those huge ass sales.

Now Gantz is great IMO,Kei makes the series and is one of the best developed characters I've seen in a while. Plus the latest arc is epic.


----------



## Storminator Steel (Dec 3, 2011)

Toriko's success probably has alot to do with this years pretty aggresive marketing. Pretty awesome that it's keeping pace with series' that have twice as many volumes.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 3, 2011)

lol bleach lol kubo... He probably gonna look at these numbers and go meh..


----------



## Han Solo (Dec 3, 2011)

RumbleKing Yoshitsune said:


> You mean that stupid Basketball manga. Just like all the other sport based manga's it sucks, although bowling king was enjoyable for awhile.
> 
> I will say this REAL>Bleach.



REAL has very little to do with basketball really so I dunno what your on about.


----------



## vagnard (Dec 3, 2011)

This shows the bad taste of japanese readers.


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## Aldric (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Fairy Tail and One Piece are two things that you just read for the fun of it. It is not many to be taken seriously, and as you can see that is how they get those huge ass sales.



What manga in that top ten is supposed to be taken seriously exactly

Have we stooped so low as a civilization that we're meant to take fucking Bleach and Naruto seriously


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## Han Solo (Dec 3, 2011)

Aldric said:


> What manga in that top ten is supposed to be taken seriously exactly
> 
> Have we stooped so low as a civilization that we're meant to take fucking Bleach and Naruto seriously



Well I think Kishi is trying to get his manga taken seriously ever since the whole "child of destiny" bullshit all that came after it. Not that Kishi is succeding or anywhere close to it though considering Naruto got even worse once Kishi tried to make his manga something more than a children's story.

But then again to some people Naruto is the new War and Peace.


----------



## Koshirae (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Fairy Tail and One Piece are two things that you just read for the fun of it. It is not many to be taken seriously, and as you can see that is how they get those huge ass sales.
> 
> Now Gantz is great IMO,Kei makes the series and is one of the best developed characters I've seen in a while. Plus the latest arc is epic.



What the... man? Comparing Fairy Tail with One Piece? Fairy Tail is full of fanservice, One Piece has none of that, maybe very little. One Piece is not taken seriously? What are you smoking? The reason behind One Piece's success in Japan is it's plot. And a few other things I mentioned on the previous page.


----------



## Aldric (Dec 3, 2011)

Masashi Kishimoto, age 37, addresses the theme of war and its complex economical, geopolitical and ethical consequences

ITS HATRED'S FAULT

*pulls out a stupid ass book by a porn author*

YOU JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE

*everyone is resurrected*


----------



## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Fairy Tail and One Piece are two things that you just read for the fun of it. It is not many to be taken seriously, and as you can see that is how they get those huge ass sales.
> 
> Now Gantz is great IMO,Kei makes the series and is one of the best developed characters I've seen in a while. Plus the latest arc is epic.



And Gantz supposedly is with all its gratuitous gore and naked shock value? What you're trying to say doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


----------



## Storminator Steel (Dec 3, 2011)

Koshirae said:


> What the... man? Comparing Fairy Tail with One Piece? Fairy Tail is full of fanservice, One Piece has none of that, maybe very little. One Piece is not taken seriously? What are you smoking? The reason behind One Piece's success in Japan is it's plot. And a few other things I mentioned on the previous page.



But it has a cartoony art style!


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## Haohmaru (Dec 3, 2011)

Is that Uchuu Kyoudai on #22? Nice to see that on the list.


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## Koshirae (Dec 3, 2011)

Storminator Steel said:


> But it has a cartoony art style!



You are most likely not being serious but for anyone that is going to say something similar, it doesn't have a cartoony art style it just has the dot-eyed artwork which was also found in Dragonball. If One Piece had the same kind of art like Naruto/Bleach, it would be weird. And it wouldn't feel like One Piece at all because the art-style fits each character perfectly.

This pic for example, I just can't imagine them with another kind of art-style. It fits them perfectly.


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## Pervy Fox (Dec 3, 2011)

Byrdman said:


> lol bleach lol kubo... He probably gonna look at these numbers and go *"just as planned"*..



fixed.


----------



## God Movement (Dec 3, 2011)

I find it funny when people say One Piece has shitty art when it has the most detailed art in the entire Weekly Shounen magazine


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## Butcher (Dec 3, 2011)

MdB said:


> And Gantz supposedly is with all its *gratuitous gore and naked shock value?* What you're trying to say doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


You haven't read very far .


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 3, 2011)

Someone compared fairy tail to One Piece......LOL.

The only reason i read Fairy tail is because of the Fan-service and the fights(Before the Nakama victory). Its Plot/story....there is none, and there is trolling of Kubo level proportions every Arc.


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## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> You haven't read very far .



Except the problem is that Gantz is crammed to its eyeballs with pointless shock value from the very outset, and it has never subsided since then.


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## Butcher (Dec 3, 2011)

MdB said:


> Except the problem is that Gantz is crammed to its eyeballs with pointless shock value from the very outset, and it has never subsided since then.


Shock value? You mean as in the fucked up ways they kill people?

Hopefully Gantz is not popular because of that in Japan(Probably is).

Personally I don't read it for shock value, I read it for plot and characters. A little bit of suspense in there too.


----------



## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Dec 3, 2011)

As I have said before, I am surprised that One Piece is doing so well even though it's most current arc has been crappy. 

And as I've also said, I'm unhappy to see Hitman Reborn's not in the top 10, but still being at least in the top 50 as #17 nonetheless is still better than nothing I guess.


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## C-Moon (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Shock value? You mean as in the fucked up ways they kill people?
> 
> Hopefully Gantz is not popular because of that in Japan(Probably is).
> 
> Personally I don't read it for shock value, I read it for plot and characters. A little bit of suspense in there too.



Gantz has a plot? Where did it get one, from the back of a cereal box?


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 3, 2011)

Gantz has a lot of black comedy and shock value that doesn't make it bad though. I don't really see any flaws in the story besides how restrained Oku has been with explaining most of the plot points.


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## BlueDemon (Dec 3, 2011)

Gamma Akutabi said:


> Gantz has a plot? Where did it get one, from the back of a cereal box?



Hey, don?t exaggerate now... Gantz has had a plot from the beginning and more character development than Naruto ever had xD
Even if the newer arcs aren?t really master pieces regarding the story, don?t downplay the whole manga.

Saying it has more/a better story than One Piece is dumb though. Even if you totally hate the style of OP (or whatever), you have to agree its story is pretty good, with lots of details and many connections throughout the 648 chapters.

I admit I haven?t read Berserk yet, or other highly acclaimed series (cuz I wait for them to get completed ), but I?ve read plenty of other books to be able to discern if it has a proper story. 
So whatever you say, you can?t really downplay that! ( I?m not saying it?s perfect, but it?s there and it?s good!). 

That?s my take on all of this, and ultimately it?s a matter of taste. I still like to read Naruto (more for the fights than the story nowadays), Bleach (for its art ) and FT (for the fanservice ) though. But not for the story anymore.


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## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm surprised that Blue Exorcist is so high in the list, on in the list for the matter.

Also lol at Gantz being above shingeki no kyojin.


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## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Butcher said:


> Shock value? You mean as in the fucked up ways they kill people?
> 
> Hopefully Gantz is not popular because of that in Japan(Probably is).
> 
> Personally I don't read it for shock value, I read it for plot and characters. A little bit of suspense in there too.



No, as in the way he's trying to force his drivel through maturity by emphasizing way too much on pointless graphic and sexual violence. The second phase for example had enough alien rape to produce several chapters worth of shocking schlock. In a sense, it's this medium's equivalent of the Modern Warfare series.


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## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

Saying "I read Gantz for the plot" is is like saying "I watch Fairy Tail Bible Black for the plot"


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## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Even the conflict in Bleach is better explained and developed. I mean... fucking Bleach.


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 3, 2011)

Gantz overemphasizes the violent aspects behind taking random characters and forcing them into kill or be killed scenarios? That whole premise makes the violence seem expected imo

I'm sort of with you on the sexual violence thing but then again that's almost a trope for every popular seinen now anyway.

Gantz isn't bad by any means you just have to come to terms with what you're reading.
If you only wanted to read tame seinen then you probably wouldn't have come across Gantz in the first place.


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## Ae (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll be honest, I've never gotten into One Piece. Saw a couple of episode, and from what I saw it wasn't my cup of tea.


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## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> If you only wanted to read tame seinen then you probably wouldn't have come across Gantz in the first place.



Berserk is a good series that has gore and sexual violece and unlike Gantz it actually has plot, and actually achives to shock you, nothing in Gamtz is remotly as shocking as the eclipse in Berserk.
No one is saying Gantz is bad because teh gore, Gantz is bad because the plot is bad.


----------



## Judge Fudge (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> I'm surprised that Blue Exorcist is so high in the list, on in the list for the matter.
> 
> Also lol at Gantz being above shingeki no kyojin.



The reason why Blue Exorcist and Gantza are so high on the list is because the former had an anime that ran on a popular television block which got new viewers to buy the manga from the beginning which elevated sales the latter had two live action movies that came out this year that elevated people's curiosity about the original manga hence the purge in sales. Both series will probably be much lower next year now that the hype has died down. Shingeki no Kyojin still hasn't gotten an anime yet and still has great sales


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Berserk is a good series that has gore and sexual violece and unlike Gantz it actually has plot, and actually achives to shock you, nothing in Gamtz is remotly as shocking as the eclipse in Berserk.
> No one is saying Gantz is bad because teh gore, Gantz is bad because the plot is bad.



You should just say you like the plot of Berserk better then Gantz and leave it at that.


----------



## Butcher (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Saying "I read Gantz for the plot" is is like saying "I watch Fairy Tail Bible Black for the plot"


People seem like it is ALL Ecchi.

They start toning it down a lot after Kei fights the two statues.


----------



## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Just because warfare is bloody, brutal and fierce doesn't justify the author fetishizing on it, especially since the same effect can easilly be achieved by making the violence brief yet pronounced. It's quite frankly a waste of space.

The narrative is also a far cry from a profound examination on the human condition when it never dwells on the decadence of the characters' psyches, but rather hits the same notes again and again to the point of boredom. What was shocking initially, quickly becomes tedious and repetitive. Much like the recycled conflicts in Gantz that pop up ad nauseum.

This has nothing to do with demanding more reserved storytelling.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 3, 2011)

MdB said:


> Just because warfare is bloody, brutal and fierce doesn't justify the author fetishizing on it, especially since the same effect can easilly be achieved by making the violence brief yet pronounced. It's quite frankly a waste of space.


You can't say this applies to every portrayal of warfare though and it would be ridiculous to try and say every piece of fiction about warfare has to be subdued like that in the first place.
If you ignore the reality of what is occurring then in some cases you might as well not have addressed it at all.
I mean what is more powerful for the narrative is down to the individual but personally when I'm shown someone being killed and I see that violence its going to stay with me vs an ambiguous death that I have no way to connect with.

On one hand it won't make you uncomfortable but on the other you are getting the reality.




MdB said:


> The narrative is also a far cry from a profound examination on the human condition when it never dwells on the decadence of the characters' psyches, but rather hits the same notes again and again to the point of boredom. What was shocking initially, quickly becomes tedious and repetitive. Much like the recycled conflicts in Gantz that pop up ad nauseum.


I like the repetitive nature of the games and how the characters eventually got used to their circumstances. It is a human trait to adapt to survive which I think Gantz is trying to convey. 
You take the most ridiculous archetypes and throw them into crazy situations and see how they come out of it.




MdB said:


> This has nothing to do with demanding more reserved storytelling.


But isn't this is exactly what your saying here


> No, as in the way he's trying to force his drivel through maturity by emphasizing way too much on pointless graphic and sexual violence.


----------



## luffy no haki (Dec 3, 2011)

Current Gantz is just plain bad. It used to be pretty good when it had a real plot but just like many other mangas it started to go down the hill at some point.


----------



## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> You should just say you like the plot of Berserk better then Gantz and leave it at that.



You are missing the point, in Gantz the gore is not a tool of the narrative to make some events more shocking, instead the plot works as an excuse to show as much gore scenes as possible without bothering to build up any tension.



Butcher said:


> People seem like it is ALL Ecchi.
> 
> They start toning it down a lot after Kei fights the two statues.



I have read till the alien invasion, it doesn't get better.


----------



## Stilzkin (Dec 3, 2011)

Gantz had plot until Kurono got out of gantz, before then there had been character development then the author seems to have lost view of what he was doing and things get messy.

Before: unexplained alien stuff and Kurono's personal growth from that stuff

After: alien stuff gets hints that it will be explained but it never happens, Kurono is just obsessed with his gf


----------



## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> You can't say this applies to every portrayal of warfare though and it would be ridiculous to try and say every piece of fiction about warfare has to be subdued like that in the first place.
> If you ignore the reality of what is occurring then in some cases you might as well not have addressed it at all.
> I mean what is more powerful for the narrative is down to the individual but personally when I'm shown someone being killed and I see that violence its going to stay with me vs an ambiguous death that I have no way to connect with.



You might want to explain how *pronounced* violence can at the same time be subdued. It's impossible, because of the nature in which it's depicted. What you're trying to say is thus amounting more or less to a straw man argument.

Violence and warfare should showcase the brutality of life. It should be unapologetic. It should challenge our (whitewashed) perceptions of it and give definition to a story. It can be layered with symbolic meaning as well, but to dwell on it, not in search for any deeper implications, is plain retarded and furthermore a clear sign that a narrative is lacking in actual maturity. Gantz happens to be textbook example of this.



Matta Clatta said:


> But isn't this is exactly what your saying here


I've already said it's the gratuitousness of the experience that makes it silly. Seeing a man thrust his junk in a face made of boobs borders on caricature.


----------



## Fayrra (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> You are missing the point, in Gantz the gore is not a tool of the narrative to make some events more shocking, instead the plot works as an excuse to show as much gore scenes as possible without bothering to build up any tension.



The gore in Gantz is there to make it more reaistic, as are the fight scenes. Oku stated this himself that he purposefully didn't want to censor anything so he didn't loose realism, and he wanted the fight scenes to happen more quickly and in the spur of the moment. Because when fighting something very dangerous it usually ends quickly...with your guts spread out all over the floor.


The only thing is the fan service with the girls. All the girls are generally so big breasted, and it's kind of ridiculous how quickly they give themselves to the main characters. The exception being Tae...but even then she just happens to be willing to do some pleasurable stuff to Kurono once they've fallen in love, with Kurono not returning the favor, etc.


----------



## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> The gore in Gantz is there to make it more reaistic, as are the fight scenes. Oku stated this himself that he purposefully didn't want to censor anything so he didn't loose realism, and he wanted the fight scenes to happen more quickly and in the spur of the moment. Because when fighting something very dangerous it usually ends quickly...with your guts spread out all over the floor.


A good plot, an elaborated setting and a proper characterisation is what gives a manga realism nor Gore.
If you aded Gore to bleach it would be still the same unrealistic manga that it is now, the only difference would be the amount of blood showed.
Saying that gore makes a manga more realistic is no different of saying that echi makes a manga more entertaining.



Fayrra said:


> The only thing is the fan service with the girls. All the girls are generally so big breasted, and it's kind of ridiculous how quickly they give themselves to the main characters. The exception being Tae...but even then she just happens to be willing to do some pleasurable stuff to Kurono once they've fallen in love, with Kurono not returning the favor, etc.


Fan Service is not just ecchi, showing as much gore as posible per chapter to please the readers can also be considered fanservice.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 3, 2011)

MdB said:


> *You might want to explain how pronounced violence can at the same time be subdued.* It's impossible, because of the nature in which it's depicted. What you're trying to say is thus amounting more or less to a straw man argument.
> 
> Violence and warfare should showcase the brutality of life. It should be unapologetic. It should challenge our (whitewashed) perceptions of it and give definition to a story. It can be layered with symbolic meaning as well, but to dwell on it, not in search for any deeper implications, is plain retarded and furthermore a clear sign that a narrative is lacking in actual maturity. Gantz happens to be textbook example of this.


You lost me here I said overt violence forces you to connect with what is happening while violence that is intentionally subdued is a tactic to make you overlook it in the first place, therefore you wouldn't have that connection.

It's like you're talking about the substance of Tom and Jerry vs Generation Kill now 
This is a pretty boxed in way to view everything anyway.

If you make the decision to seriously to show violence in its true form in whatever setting then you owe it to you should expect it to be made as realistic as possible. 
If you think something is gratuitous by doing this for no other reason then being realistic because it didn't allow you to think about anything besides the shock of said death, I think it did what its supposed to do.

When you look at someone dying and immediately start thinking about symbolic meanings behind the act then you aren't really doing justice to the act your just leading everyone down the story. This isn't a bad thing but you can't automatically label the subversion of this to be bad because it goes against your sensibilities.




MdB said:


> I've already said it's the gratuitousness of the experience that makes it silly. Seeing a man thrust his junk in a face made of boobs borders on caricature.


Okay well this is an alien no different then when Gutts was having sex with a bunch of dead flesh. I mean I don't want to make excuses for every stupid thing in the manga but obviously this isn't happening ever other chapter.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 3, 2011)

The only think now in Gantz that's keeping my attention is the awaited deaths of everyone... I remember the author stating that everyone will die at some point in the series..


----------



## Fayrra (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> A good plot, an elaborated setting and a proper characterisation is what gives a manga realism nor Gore.


Oh, really? So stories and characters that you subjectively find good, is what makes manga realistic? I didn't know you were a god and that reality bends to your personal preferences. You're one sick fuck, actually, you know that? Your personal preferences are what make up reality. Because of you, we have psychopaths, children starving in Africa, and genocides in this world, all because you find it preferable. Oh, what's that? You don't neccesarily prefer all the things that make up reality? So then your personal subjective preferences _aren't_ what makes something realistic? I thought as much.



Samavarti said:


> If you aded Gore to bleach it would be still the same unrealistic manga that it is now, the only difference would be the amount of blood showed.


"If you add something it would still be the same, except now it would be slightly different."

Yeah, sure _everything else but the gore _ would still be unrealistic, no shit. But the gore could still be put there for realism. Since it's a _part of reality._ I never said it makes the whole entire manga realistic.



Samavarti said:


> Saying that gore makes a manga more realistic is no different of saying that echi makes a manga more entertaining.


It's quite different. One is objective, while the other is subjective. The manga being entertaining is a personal preference. The gore being realistic is objective.



Samavarti said:


> Fan Service is not just ecchi, showing as much gore as posible per chapter to please the readers can also be considered fanservice.


Of course it can. Oku personally stated he does it for realism. I see no reason to assume he's lying, especially if he's doing it for the readers, why lie to them? The characters are in dangerous situations, it only follows that they will most likely be hurt. Being hurt = gore. Realistic.


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## Samavarti (Dec 3, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> Oh, really? So stories and characters that you subjectively find good, is what makes manga realistic? I didn't know you were a god and that reality bends to your personal preferences. You're one sick fuck, actually, you know that? Your personal preferences are what make up reality. Because of you, we have psychopaths, children starving in Africa, and genocides in this world, all because you find it preferable. Oh, what's that? You don't neccesarily prefer all the things that make up reality? So then your personal subjective preferences _aren't_ what makes something realistic? I thought as much..


What the fuck are you talking about?




Fayrra said:


> "If you add something it would still be the same, except now it would be slightly different."
> 
> Yeah, sure _everything else but the gore _ would still be unrealistic, no shit. But the gore could still be put there for realism. Since it's a _part of reality._ I never said it makes the whole entire manga realistic.


Swords are part of the reality therfore any anime with swords is realistic, flawless logic.




Fayrra said:


> It's quite different. One is objective, while the other is subjective. The manga being entertaining is a personal preference. The gore being realistic is objective.


Except gore has nothing to do with a manga being realistic, under that logic any slice of life series is unrelistic because because it has gore, and a serie about aliens popping out of nothing and a bunch of character with superpowers is realistic because it has gore.




Fayrra said:


> Of course it can. Oku personally stated he does it for realism. I see no reason to assume he's lying, especially if he's doing it for the readers, why lie to them?


The characters are in dangerous situations, it only follows that they will most likely be hurt. Being hurt = gore. Realistic.[/QUOTE]
What did you expect him to say?
"I have no idea o what i'm wrting so i will just add a bunch of gore scens to please my fans" yeah right.


Fayrra said:


> The characters are in dangerous situations, it only follows that they will most likely be hurt. Being hurt = gore. Realistic.


Except it also have plenty of scenes of completely irrelevant characters being rapes murdered that dosen't provide anything to the plot.
Also since when every injury implies to have you guts splatered, also the fact that most of the aliens seem to specialize in splatering their enemys guts isn't exactly the most realistic thing.


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## MdB (Dec 3, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> You lost me here I said overt violence forces you to connect with what is happening while something that is intentionally made subdued is a tactic to make you overlook it therefore you wouldn't have that connection.
> 
> It's like you're talking about the substance of Tom and Jerry vs Generation Kill now
> This is a pretty boxed in way to view everything anyway.
> ...



What subversion? What goes against my own sensibilities? How about you lay off the straw man arguments and actually try to refute what I'm typing? It seems to me that you don't have a leg to stand on when all you do is linger on a single example of the usage of violence while gave several more. It's pointless, really.

But what purpose does the gratuitous violence in Gantz have? It doesn't advance the plot nor does it provide for ample opportunity to develop the characters. It barely has any thematic impact as well. All it tries to do is to be more hardcore and thus making the narrative darker and edgier.

Furthermore, you made an implication that I wanted warfare to be more subdued, hence my rebuttal.



Matta Clatta said:


> Okay well this is an alien no different then when Gutts was having sex with a bunch of dead flesh. I mean I don't want to make excuses for every stupid thing in the manga but obviously this isn't happening ever other chapter.



Nice red herring. But you're aware that it's completely irrelevant to this current debate, right?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 3, 2011)

Whats with all the arguing over Gantz? It sells a lot because people like it so lets move on please.


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## The Doctor (Dec 3, 2011)

gantz shocks and impress with all its gore and sex, that much is true. combined with the fact that one character actually have a nice development, it's easy for people to take wrong interpretations or overthink certain aspects of the series.

gantz has one single axis for its story: survival games

in order to make an excuse for those, we have the intervals between events which explains to the reader why said games exist. then you have some poor relationship between character thrown in the story and voil?, we have gantz.

now, survival environments are fun. who doesn't love a nice zombie apocalypse theme? well, in this case we have creepy aliens but the idea is similar. it's still utterly retarded to say that zombies get their head exploded, cut in half and what not TO SHOW DA REALITY OVIT!! they show the gore fest because it's fun to watch gore fests. it's not profund, nor the authors strive to reach the sense of human sensibility toward the zombies or any shit like that.

what mdb said is totally correct:



			
				MdB said:
			
		

> Violence and warfare should showcase the brutality of life. It should be unapologetic. It should challenge our (whitewashed) perceptions of it and give definition to a story. It can be layered with symbolic meaning as well, but to dwell on it, not in search for any deeper implications, is plain retarded and furthermore a clear sign that a narrative is lacking in actual maturity. Gantz happens to be textbook example of this.



if you put all the forementioned characteristics together you have: appealing gore, fan service, one nice development, titted aliens, survival games... and that's it.

the conclusion is that gantz shouldn't be taken seriuosly. if you do that you can even find it entertaining, considering you have some kind of psychological disorder or wicked desires to fuck titted aliens.


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## Fayrra (Dec 3, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?


You said good plot makes the manga realistic. Finding plot good is based on one's preferences. Therefore, you finding something preferable = good plot = realistic manga = realism is based on your preferences. Using your own logic here.



Samavarti said:


> Swords are part of the reality therfore any anime with swords is realistic, flawless logic.


Once again, I never said having gore makes the entire manga realistic, I said the gore is put in there for realistic purposes, not for the fun of it. Swords, unless it's something like a manga where they are in an age devoid of technology, are most likely put in there for the fun of it, not realism. Get it through your head that saying that something is being put in the manga for realistic purposes does not equate to me saying it makes it a realistic manga.



Samavarti said:


> Except gore has nothing to do with a manga being realistic, under that logic any slice of life series is unrelistic because because it has gore, and a serie about aliens popping out of nothing and a bunch of character with superpowers is realistic because it has gore.


I never said gore was essiential for a manga to be realistic. I said gore is realistic in dangerous situations. That's an objective fact. Unless you can prove it wrong?



Samavarti said:


> What did you expect him to say?
> "I have no idea o what i'm wrting so i will just add a bunch of gore scens to please my fans" yeah right.


I expect him to answer the question. The question wasn't "do you have any idea what you're writing?" or "is the gore there because you have no idea what you're writing?" He can have an idea of what he's writing and still admit that the gore is all for fanservice. If it were just for fanservice, I'd expect him to say "The gore is put in there to cater to those who like it." not "I put gore in there to make it more realistic."


Samavarti said:


> Except it also have plenty of scenes of completely irrelevant characters being rapes murdered that dosen't provide anything to the plot.


That happens in real life, too. People you hardly even know get killed and raped weekly. There's going to be irrelevant characters as well as important ones dying because the characters are put in dangerous situations. That's realistic. What you're attacking does not somehow prove that the gore wasn't put in there for realistic purposes, it simply proves that you do not like how all the characters are developed, and expect Oku to develop all characters put in dangerous situations.



Samavarti said:


> Also since when every injury implies to have you guts splatered, also the fact that most of the aliens seem to specialize in splatering their enemys guts isn't exactly the most realistic thing.


Why not? Most animals can splatter human guts quite easily. Now these are aliens that evolved in planets possibly quite different from ours. Who's to say how realistic it would be if most of them were pretty strong?


MdB said:


> But what purpose does the gratuitous violence in Gantz have? It doesn't advance the plot nor does it provide for ample opportunity to develop the characters.


Loaded Question Fallacy. 

"What purpose does the purposeless violence have?" 

The purpose, I'd assume, of the danger would be hopelessness. The purpose of the gore would be realistic results of said danger.



MdB said:


> It barely has any thematic impact as well.


Subjectivity. It may have lots of thematic impact to others depending upon their tastes and preferences and how close they hold the theme of violence and death to their "heart."


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## SAFFF (Dec 4, 2011)

I won't lie. The hottest scene i ever read in a manga was when kawabara was raping that alien with the giant lip on her head in Gantz.


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## Samavarti (Dec 4, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> You said good plot makes the manga realistic. Finding plot good is based on one's preferences. Therefore, you finding something preferable = good plot = realistic manga = realism is based on your preferences. Using your own logic here.


Nop your logic is still flawed, if the plot doesn't make any sense, the setting is not developed, and the actions of your character dosen't make sense neither means that the manga is unrealistic, those aren't subjective values, whatever you like the plot, teh characters or the setting is another thing.




Fayrra said:


> Once again, I never said having gore makes the entire manga realistic, I said the gore is put in there for realistic purposes, not for the fun of it. Swords, unless it's something like a manga where they are in an age devoid of technology, _are most likely put in there for the fun of it, not realism_.


Just as the gore in gantz, seeing a bunch of unamed characters being blown to pieces doesn't add any realism to the manga, and those scens are just there for the fun of seeing some random guy blown to pieces.



Fayrra said:


> Get it through your head that saying that something is being put in the manga for realistic purposes does not equate to me saying it makes it a realistic manga.


You are saying it adds realism to the manga, it doesn't



Fayrra said:


> I never said gore was essiential for a manga to be realistic. I said gore is realistic in dangerous situations. That's an objective fact. Unless you can prove it wrong?


Considerign that _dangerous situations_ is something extremly vage, and that i a lot of cases doesn't invole gore, yes, you are wrong.



Fayrra said:


> I expect him to answer the question. The question wasn't "do you have any idea what you're writing?" or "is the gore there because you have no idea what you're writing?" He can have an idea of what he's writing and still admit that the gore is all for fanservice. If it were just for fanservice, I'd expect him to say "The gore is put in there to cater to those who like it." not "I put gore in there to make it more realistic."


Because he woudl surley be completly honest, how may authors would admit they do things you for the fanservice, instead of saying is an esentiall part of his manga an does it for the realism.



Fayrra said:


> That happens in real life, too. People you hardly even know get killed and raped weekly. There's going to be irrelevant characters as well as important ones dying because the characters are put in dangerous situations. That's realistic. What you're attacking does not somehow prove that the gore wasn't put in there for realistic purposes, it simply proves that you do not like how all the characters are developed, and expect Oku to develop all characters put in dangerous situations.


So because things like that happen in the real life it competly justifies having a completly unrelated scene in the manga just for the realism, using that same logic he could have as well inserted an scene of some random guy sleeping, or of a puppy playing with a ball because it also happens in the real life.





Fayrra said:


> Why not? Most animals can splatter human guts quite easily. Now these are aliens that evolved in planets possibly quite different from ours. Who's to say how realistic it would be if most of them were pretty strong?.


Most of the animales don' tend to tentacle raped differen species just because the fun.


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## Seto Kaiba (Dec 4, 2011)

So, predictions for next year? I think Toriko will be number 4 for 2012, or if not that, keep its #5 spot. Bleach's dropping sales I think will have it dropped to #9, swapping places with Kimi ni Todoke. I think Shingeki no Kyojin will finally make it to the #10 spot if it continues on this route, and Gantz will drop to #11. It's all just speculation though.


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## Fayrra (Dec 4, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Nop your logic is still flawed, if the plot doesn't make any sense, the setting is not developed, and the actions of your character dosen't make sense neither means that the manga is unrealistic,


I repeat, you said _good plot makes the manga realistic_. That means if the plot is good, the manga is realistic. If you meant that if the manga is realistic, then you consider the plot good, that's fine. But you said it wrong.



Samavarti said:


> You are saying it adds realism to the manga, it doesn't
> Considerign that _dangerous situations_ is something extremly vage, and that i a lot of cases doesn't invole gore, yes, you are wrong.


It does. People are fragile. When people are put in situations that are dangerous, they are more likely to be mutilated. Therefore, the manga has lots of mutilations. It makes sense. The conclusion follows the premise logically. It's realistic. Dangerous situations DO in a lot of cases involve gore, since gore is the result of most human beings dying.  Danger = dying. When humans loose blood, they die. Gore. When humans have damaged organs, they die. Gore. When humans have their heads ripped off, they die. Gore. Dangerous situations, gore.



Samavarti said:


> Because he woudl surley be completly honest, how may authors would admit they do things you for the fanservice, instead of saying is an esentiall part of his manga an does it for the realism.


He has no reason to hide it. If there are people out there who like gore and read his manga because of it, he would have no reason to hide the fact that he makes gore for them, _from them._



Samavarti said:


> So because things like that happen in the real life it competly justifies having a completly unrelated scene in the manga just for the realism, using that same logic he could have as well inserted an scene of some random guy sleeping, or of a puppy playing with a ball because it also happens in the real life.


Except for the fact that it makes sense within the context of dangerous situations. For people to be sleeping in dangerous situations, or for puppies to play ball during dangerous situations wouldn't make sense. Gore happening in dangerous situations makes sense, non-sequitur-mavarti.


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## dream (Dec 4, 2011)

> So, predictions for next year?



One Piece dominates once again.


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## Samavarti (Dec 4, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> I repeat, you said _good plot makes the manga realistic_. That means if the plot is good, the manga is realistic. If you meant that if the manga is realistic, then you consider the plot good, that's fine. But you said it wrong.


If the plot doesn't make sense it isn't a good plot.




Fayrra said:


> It does. People are fragile. When people are put in situations that are dangerous, they are more likely to be mutilated.


No, there are a bunch of dangerous situations, that doesn't immply having one person being mutilated.



Fayrra said:


> Therefore, the manga has lots of mutilations. It makes sense. The conclusion follows the premise logically. It's realistic. Dangerous situations DO in a lot of cases involve gore, since gore is the result of most human beings dying.  Danger = dying. When humans loose blood, they die. Gore. When humans have damaged organs, they die. Gore. When humans have their heads ripped off, they die. Gore. Dangerous situations, gore.


Again the are bunch of Dangerous situations that dosen't involve gore, and you are missing the point, and you argument is no different from saying "people have sex, therfore having a bunch of people having sex is realistic so hentai just add the sex for the realism".





Fayrra said:


> He has no reason to hide it. If there are people out there who like gore and read his manga because of it, he would have no reason to hide the fact that he makes gore for them, _from them._


That would be like admitting that he needs to use chep tricks liek gore to increase his sales, which would be unlikely.




Fayrra said:


> Except for the fact that it makes sense within the context of dangerous situations. For people to be sleeping in dangerous situations, or for puppies to play ball during dangerous situations wouldn't make sense. Gore happening in dangerous situations makes sense, non-sequitur-mavarti.


So having a bunch od people not related to the plot being mutilated makes sense, just because dangerous situations may have gore?, again you are missing the point.


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## Endless Mike (Dec 4, 2011)

Never even heard of Blue Exorcist


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## Aldric (Dec 4, 2011)

lol at Gantz using gore for "realims" sake

It's true that people turning into sentient tumors is a common occurence on battlefields worldwide 

Gantz is an exploitation manga through and through and trying to argue otherwise honestly sounds as bad as the human debris who directed the human centipede movies attempting to justify his worthless sociopath's fantasies by saying it's "social commentary"


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## p-lou (Dec 4, 2011)

i read a volume of gantz once

i saw some titties


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## Fayrra (Dec 4, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> No, there are a bunch of dangerous situations, that doesn't immply having one person being mutilated


Yes it does. When human bodies stop functioning it's most likely because something has happened to their body involving blood, guts, etc. Blood because if the organs are hurt most likely the skin and bones were bypassed. Once skin is bypassed blood leaks out. And if bones are bypassed then guts leak out. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.


Samavarti said:


> Again the are bunch of Dangerous situations that dosen't involve gore,


Like what? The gore ones far outweigh the nongore ones.


Samavarti said:


> and you argument is no different from saying "people have sex, therfore having a bunch of people having sex is realistic so hentai just add the sex for the realism".


Except most hentai's don't make any sense within the context of the plot. They just meet each other and are like, "let's have sex." That's unrealistic. My argument is that it makes sense within the context. These humans are in dangerous situations fighting powerful monsters, and once their suit breaks they are just as fragile as regular humans are. It's only realistic that gore will be involved. If, let's say, two people were porn stars living their life, and they had sex all the time, I'd say that within that context, that'd be pretty damn realistic. THAT'S the logical equivalent of what I'm saying. Not to menion hentai's are specifically labeled as such because they are all about mindless sex. There's no confusion there. Here you're just assuming it's mindless because you don't think the plot makes any sense. Which I have yet to see any proof of that, either. It's not the most logical plot ever, but it's way more than just mindless violence.


Samavarti said:


> That would be like admitting that he needs to use chep tricks liek gore to increase his sales, which would be unlikely.


Except there's nothing cheap about it. You just find it cheap, and you don't like it. Therefore you assume that the author finds it shameful and would be scared to admit it. Stop assuming and actually bring some proof to the tabel. There's no reason to assume he's lying when he says the gore, which is a probable and logical result from dangerous situations, is put in there for realism, which Oku himself may like. He may like hopless situations, he may like tragic situations (both of which justify violence, of which justifies gore) , fuck, he may even like gore as well, but that doesn't mean he's lying when he says it's for realism. Since gore for fun and gore for realism are not mutually exclusive motivations. One can like gore, and then also like dangerous situations, and then like realism, which would make sense in dangerous situations. He could be doing it for both reasons.


Samavarti said:


> So having a bunch od people not related to the plot being mutilated makes sense, just because dangerous situations may have gore?, again you are missing the point.


How in the flying fuck are they not related to the plot? Gantz grabs "random" people who have died for entertainment, it's precisely because these random people are related to the plot that they are in danger and thus being mutilated. 


Aldric said:


> Gantz is an exploitation manga through and through and trying to argue otherwise honestly sounds as bad as the human debris who directed the human centipede movies attempting to justify his worthless sociopath's fantasies by saying it's "social commentary"


Hiding behind the word exploitation is weak considering there's way more to the manga than just violence. Just because Gantz has lots of violence does not mean by default the violence is only there to draw attention. Regardless of how much attention it draws, it is still very realistic within the context of being in dangerous situations. Oku may like that, which is why he incorporates it. It drawing attention and it being objectively realistic are not mutually exclusive.


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## Aldric (Dec 4, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> Hiding behind the word exploitation is weak considering there's way more to the manga than just violence.



Yeah it's true there's also giant floppy tits, alien rape and hilariously embarassing teenage fantasies about fucking video game characters

I mean seriously 

LET ME HAVE SEX WITH YOU!!!

OK AVERAGE LOSER GUY, LARA CROFT WILL LET YOU FUCK HER

Oh there's so much more t.. to humpf Gantz than huff humff violence you j just wouldn't haff humpff wouldn't understaaaaaghlghalgharghlafff


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## Teppei (Dec 4, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> So, predictions for next year?



Yeah, hopefully Toriko will be higher up. 5th isn't bad, but it deserves much more.
As for Bleach, well, with the Fullbring arc seemingly ending soon and with the next arc looking Shinigami centric, I'd say sales may be better compared to this year. Japan hasn't been diggin' the Fullbringers since the timeskip started, so maybe they'll appreciate something a little more familiar with the next arc?

I'd say both Naruto and One Piece keep their positions, as I doubt anything can topple the latter at the moment, and with Naruto most likely coming to an end, I think we'll be getting a lot of answers to certain questions as well as long awaited fights.

As for the rest, I'm not sure. Fairy Tail has gained a lot of popularity, but some fans aren't pleased with the developments of recent arcs. I think it may come down to how Mashima handles the upcoming Tournament, but I would'nt be surprised to see it remain in 4th anyway.


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## Fayrra (Dec 4, 2011)

Aldric said:


> Yeah it's true there's also giant floppy tits, alien rape and hilariously embarassing teenage fantasies about fucking video game characters
> 
> I mean seriously
> 
> ...



Never argued that the fanservice isn't there regarding sex.

BUT, There's also love, hope, survival, jealousy, revenge, character development (Kurono, Katou, Kaze, Izumi, Sakurai), grey characters are abundent, though the one's that strike me the most are some of the aliens. Some of which simply want to live a normal life hiding away on the planet as immigriants, not necessarily wanting to hurt others, yet get slaughtered because other's who want to still live are practically forced to do so. There's death, and fear. They've even literally added rebirth as a theme, another chance, which ties into lingering hope. There's manliness, the ideal that you should stand up for yourself, and this shows even more when the situation you're in is so ridiculously fucked up, as opposed to most manga that portrays said ideal (it's quite common, actually), but in situations that can't even begin to properly portray true pain, and struggle. For people to be thrown in such situations as is shown in Gantz, I can only imagine how painful it would be.


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## Whimsy (Dec 4, 2011)

Gantz is the Saw film franchise in manga form


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## Bubyrd Ratcatcher (Dec 4, 2011)

> So, predictions for next year?



On the shounen verse, 1)One Piece 2)Toriko 3)Shingeki.



luffy no haki said:


> Current Gantz is just plain bad. It used to be pretty good when it had a real plot but just like many other mangas it started to go down the hill at some point.



I second this, imo Gantz started to lost any sense since the vampires showed up.
If you like the current Gantz you'll like even Oh Great pieces.


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## Koshirae (Dec 4, 2011)

My prediction is that One Piece is going to keep it's place obviously and sell over 40M copies next year, possibly over 45M. Considering we're about to enter New World. Yonkou territory, everyone is looking forward to it.

Naruto should be second again with third being Toriko. Fairy Tail should be fourth or fifth, not sure about the rest.


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## Aldric (Dec 4, 2011)

Fayrra said:


> Never argued that the fanservice isn't there regarding sex.
> 
> BUT, There's also love, hope, survival, jealousy, revenge, character development (Kurono, Katou, Kaze, Izumi, Sakurai), grey characters are abundent, though the one's that strike me the most are some of the aliens. Some of which simply want to live a normal life hiding away on the planet as immigriants, not necessarily wanting to hurt others, yet get slaughtered because other's who want to still live are practically forced to do so. There's death, and fear. They've even literally added rebirth as a theme, another chance, which ties into lingering hope. There's manliness, the ideal that you should stand up for yourself, and this shows even more when the situation you're in is so ridiculously fucked up, as opposed to most manga that portrays said ideal (it's quite common, actually), but in situations that can't even begin to properly portray true pain, and struggle. For people to be thrown in such situations as is shown in Gantz, I can only imagine how painful it would be.



Conglaturations, you've officially reached "Naruto is the War and Peace of manga" level


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## Matta Clatta (Dec 4, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Gantz is the Saw film franchise in manga form



Was Saw bad?
I've never watched those movies.
People I know compared them to Hostel though(I've seen these movies) which are full on torture porn/snuff films.

So if you're calling Gantz a snuff film series that seems about right.


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## Afura (Dec 6, 2011)

Funny to see Detective Conan still beeing a top 20 Manga regarding the fact there was no Plot-Devolopement since 3 Years or so?

Suprised about Blue Exorcist rising didn't see that coming


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## KLoWn (Dec 6, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Was Saw bad?
> I've never watched those movies.


The first movie was awesome, it went downhill after that.


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## Whimsy (Dec 6, 2011)

The first movie definitely wasn't awesome, but equally it wasn't atrocious.

But I was really reserving my comment for the sequels, which devolve into snuff torture porn.


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## Butcher (Dec 6, 2011)

Whimsy said:


> Gantz is the Saw film franchise in manga form


Lul wut?

Dude,Saw sucks bro.

Gantz has characters and plot.  Saw is just cool and creative ways to kill people.


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## Cromer (Dec 8, 2011)

Ao no Exorcist just below Naruto?


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