# Elemental Master Debate: Fuuton/Katon vs. Suiton/Raiton vs. Doton



## DaVizWiz (Feb 8, 2013)

Team Wind/Fire:
SM Naruto
Temari
Danzo 
(*Fan Restricted*) Base Madara 
Leaf's Professor (*Doton Restricted*)​
Team Water/Lightning:
(*Lava/Boil Restricted*) Mei
Suigetsu
(*Samehada Restricted*) Kisame
(*Katon Restricted*) Base Sauce
Cloud's Shield and Spear​
Team *Doton*:
Kakuzu (*External Hearts Restricted*)
Kurotsuchi
Han (*V3/TBB Restricted*)
Gaara
Rocks' Kekkei Tōta Master​
*Location*: Remote Island approximately 30x50km in scale, no trees, small vegetation with a single *erupting* volcanic mountain in the center. 

*Special conditions*: Jinton can only be used twice, Onoki is allowed a single flying partner, Naruto remains in SM indefinitely but can only summon 3 clones once, Izanagi cannot be used and Kotoamatsukami requires direct eye contact, Hiruzen is prime, Kakuzu has Kakashi's speed feats. 

*Start battle*: All three teams start in an equal triangle formation 200 square meters apart 1km south of the volcano with wind north, suiton east and doton west. 

*Knowledge*: Manga and Reputation

*Mindset*: Canon IC

*Orders*: Kill or capture elemental enemies at all risks.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 10, 2013)

First and only bump.


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## Rocky (Feb 11, 2013)

You might want to bump Naruto down to base.

In Sage Mode, he's at least a Tier above everyone here with the restrictions as they are. 

Even without his top two Dojutsu, Madara can still run over anyone here except perhaps Mei & Kisame. Furthermore, based on his hype, no one should be able to even _compete_ with Hiruzen in his prime.

Finally, we have Danzo who only needs to glance at someone to automatically enslave them.

The Fire/Wind team is the  of this thread. Restrictions on Jinton & Sameahda may need to change.


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## Mercurial (Feb 11, 2013)

team wind destroys,literally


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 11, 2013)

> You might want to bump Naruto down to base.
> 
> In Sage Mode, he's at least a Tier above everyone here with the restrictions as they are.


Tier above 3rd Raikage and Onoki with knowledge? Speed-wise, plot barely put him above the 3rd, and Onoki can avoid CQC with flight as I've awarded him a decent start distance. FRS probably won't hit the 3rd here, not that it would do any damage. Daikodan can absorb it, Jinton can destroy it, and Kakuzu/Han could arguably survive it. 

Most importantly, FRS is their only real offense considering Doton has Jinton and Suiton has Daikodan/Nukite/Kirin. Frogs are decent support but in reality against Jinton, Kirin and Flood Dragon they are pretty much useless. 

Naruto is allowed 3 SM clones and cannot summon anymore should they die. I believe he requires 2 to help him create FRS? 



> Even without his top two Dojutsu, Madara can still run over anyone here except perhaps Mei & Kisame. Furthermore, based on his hype, no one should be able to even _compete_ with Hiruzen in his prime.


His katons are powerful but entirely ineffective when dealing with Han, Jinton, Kisame, Mei and Water Monster Suigetsu. 

Hype is one thing, match-ups are another. I firmly believe wind is probably the least versatile team in this debate. 



> Finally, we have Danzo who only needs to glance at someone to automatically enslave them.


Direct eye-contact is required, something that is rather difficult to achieve from a 200m start distance. He also starts with his head wrapped. 



> The Fire/Wind team is the  of this thread. Restrictions on Jinton & Sameahda may need to change.


I highly disagree. Wind's only trump card is FRS which is inferior to Daikodan and Jinton, and they lack a serious front-line tank. In reality, I should have restricted Jinton entirely since it destroyed 25 Madara Susanos instantly, and the only reason it wasn't spammed by Onoki was because it wouldn't kill a zombie and it could be absorbed by Madara's Rinnegan.


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## Meruem (Feb 11, 2013)

I'd say that Naruto in SM is pretty strong for this matchup but I voted for team Doton because I think they have a few nice combos that they can pull off.  Matches with so many restrictions and conditions are tough, especially when a number limit is put on things because it makes it tough too know how they'll fight if they're limited to a certain number of uses on something.  For example, will Naruto use the clones at the start and risk losing them and not being able to use them again or use them at a time when he really needs them?  We can't be sure because in the manga, he has access to a ton of them so he doesn't usually have to worry about that.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 11, 2013)

Meruem said:


> I'd say that Naruto in SM is pretty strong for this matchup but I voted for team Doton because I think they have a few nice combos that they can pull off.  Matches with so many restrictions and conditions are tough, especially when a number limit is put on things because it makes it tough too know how they'll fight if they're limited to a certain number of uses on something.  For example, will Naruto use the clones at the start and risk losing them and not being able to use them again or use them at a time when he really needs them?  We can't be sure because in the manga, he has access to a ton of them so he doesn't usually have to worry about that.


I'd be tempted to create a scenario 2: no restrictions but then Izanagi, Koto, Water dome, 5 SM clones at all times, some ninjas have dual elements, Kakuzu's hearts, TBB... etc etc.

I was really just trying to create a balanced simulated elemental nuke fest where it comes down to an X-factor (generally the leader/specialized attack) of each team to come out on top.


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 15, 2016)

Kotoamatsukami stomps...
Mid/Diff win for Wind team

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Icegaze (May 15, 2016)

Does Han have doton ? Since when


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## Matty (May 15, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> team wind destroys,literally



Pretty much


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## Alex Payne (May 16, 2016)

SM Naruto's best FRS+Madara's best Katon is kinda too much for other teams.


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