# Shunsui vs. Naruto Verse



## shunsui1 (Nov 1, 2017)

Who's the strongest he can beat in 

Base.

Shikai.

Bankai.

He can't clear obviously but who can he beat and who beats him


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## Imagine (Nov 1, 2017)

Itachi or Kisame.


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 1, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Who's the strongest he can beat in
> 
> Base.
> 
> ...



This is not clear cut because of how his shikai and bankai work


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## Kroczilla (Nov 1, 2017)

Base; sasori 
Shikai; I can legit see him taking out hashirama with kageoni and irooni 
Bankai; now that's hard to say.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 1, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> This is not clear cut because of how his shikai and bankai work



Indeed.  His Zanpakuto involves minor-scale Reality Warping - once the Zanpakuto activates, you play by his rules.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Keishin (Nov 1, 2017)

There are many he could take down with him with his dans, since he has great endurance (can run around with a hole through his chest, ribs, foot, shoulder).

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 1, 2017)

In the end he did put out some good showing of speed and endurance.

Who in narutoverse can walk off his bankai?


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## Kaaant (Nov 1, 2017)

I'm not seeing him beat hashirama.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 1, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I'm not seeing him beat hashirama.



* Karamatsu Shinjū *is a tricky thing to decipher.  Just injuring him will cause Kyoraku's injuries to be replicated onto the aggressor; the second Dan inflicts the enemy with an illness that causes profuse bleeding; the third Dan will drown the person who has less power/reiatsu between Kyoraku and his opponent, while the Final Dan slits his enemy's throats, and blows it off with reiatsu.

Unless Hashirama can regenerate his head, he's not coming back from the last one.


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## Kaaant (Nov 1, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> * Karamatsu Shinjū *is a tricky thing to decipher.  Just injuring him will cause Kyoraku's injuries to be replicated onto the aggressor; the second Dan inflicts the enemy with an illness that causes profuse bleeding; the third Dan will drown the person who has less power/reiatsu between Kyoraku and his opponent, while the Final Dan slits his enemy's throats, and blows it off with reiatsu.
> 
> Unless Hashirama can regenerate his head, he's not coming back from the last one.



He can for one. He can also make thousands of clones who would take the damage they inflict, and not hashirama.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 1, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He can for one. He can also make thousands of clones who would take the damage they inflict, and not hashirama.



While I'm not doubting this being an effective counter "possibly" I do want to say that his reiatsu pulls anyone into the fight and affects the person who dealt the damage first. Plus since it's an AOE ability it would affect the clones unless they are out of range which is unlikely.


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## Kaaant (Nov 1, 2017)

If the clone dealt the damage, the clone would take it. 

And hashirama can spam them.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 1, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> If the clone dealt the damage, the clone would take it.
> 
> And hashirama can spam them.


why would just the clone take damage? ANY person that falls inside the range if his bankai gets effected, its why he didnt use it around others.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Keishin (Nov 1, 2017)

His bankais main problem was that it was AoE based, he can't use it around allies.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Kaaant (Nov 1, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> why would just the clone take damage? ANY person that falls inside the range if his bankai gets effected, its why he didnt use it around others.



So if he's hit, it hits even people that didn't touch him?


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## Keishin (Nov 1, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> So if he's hit, it hits even people that didn't touch him?


Basically everyone gets a part in the "stage" of the play.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Kaaant (Nov 1, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Basically everyone gets a part in the "stage" of the play.



Its going to be a big play.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 2, 2017)

He kills everyone that
-Isnt 20 times faster
-Can't survive decapitation.

The color game makes many things in the Nardo side useless too.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He kills everyone that
> -Isnt 20 times faster
> -Can't survive decapitation.
> 
> The color game makes many things in the Nardo side useless too.



Shunsui: Iroony black

Naruto: Iroony Orange

Shunsui: you don't get this game do you.

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 3


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Hashirama also has bringer of darkness which is going to make Shunsui seeing colours abs shadows difficult


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Hashirama also has bringer of darkness which is going to make Shunsui seeing colours abs shadows difficult



That's irrelevant. If he calls a color that's the only color he can cut and vice versa with hashirama.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Key word is cut. Not explode, strangle, blast. It's specific to cutting


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

It's not irrelevant when he can't see the colour he's trying to hit.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Hashirama also has bringer of darkness which is going to make Shunsui seeing colours abs shadows difficult


pretty sure Shunsui moves through shadows so thats going to make hitting him harder

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> It's not irrelevant when he can't see the colour he's trying to hit.



Maybe not irrelevant to that particular game but still irrelevant in the grand scheme of the fight any blindness would be stopped by bankai since it would still affect the enemy. Also he can move through shadows so that won't even work on him.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> pretty sure Shunsui moves through shadows so thats going to make hitting him harder



It's an illusion so no. 


shunsui1 said:


> Maybe not irrelevant to that particular game but still irrelevant in the grand scheme of the fight any blindness would be stopped by bankai since it would still affect the enemy. Also he can move through shadows so that won't even work on him.



It wouldn't affect hashirama.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Shun moves and attack through shadows nothing new.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 2, 2017)

Shinigamis see by sensing energy tho, and he can't be tricked with clones because they can actually sense souls.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Except I literally just said how it's not real shadows but it completely shits on his ability to see shadows or colour. 

And there's no proof he can distinguish between clones when even in nardo chakra sensing and dojutsu can't.


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Shunsui can move through the shadows because he has access to the shadow dimension... What you're thinking about is the game that makes him seem as if he's teleporting.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

I was reffering to the game, yeah.

Movement as a whole is going to be fucked for shunsui tho if he can't see.

And he's not getting the drop on hashirama.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I was reffering to the game, yeah.
> 
> Movement as a whole is going to be fucked for shunsui tho if he can't see.
> 
> And he's not getting the drop on hashirama.


I need a series of serious explanations on how hashi deals with bankai again because so far I have seen you misquote bleach tech multiple times now and make claims without a scan.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I was reffering to the game, yeah.
> 
> Movement as a whole is going to be fucked for shunsui tho if he can't see.
> 
> And he's not getting the drop on hashirama.




Bankai got the drop on a literal untouchable Quincy. Hashirama isn't untouchable in the bankai scenario he has no answer. SO imma need you to explain your side here as we have all done our parts.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Sounds like projection but ok. 

I've yet to hear anything that's going to give hashirama much of any difficulty, and I'm still waiting on an answer to my question.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Bankai got the drop on a literal untouchable Quincy. Hashirama isn't untouchable in the bankai scenario he has no answer. SO imma need you to explain your side here as we have all done our parts.



I mean you really haven't when hashirama has sage mode so enlighten me on how he's getting hashirama unaware and what his counter to illusion is or shut up.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Sounds like projection but ok.
> 
> I've yet to hear anything that's going to give hashirama much of any difficulty, and I'm still waiting on an answer to my question.



What's your question and every single Dan murders him. And his clones....its AOE anybody in that area and they will be in that area is affected by.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> What's your question and every single Dan murders him. And his clones....its AOE anybody in that area and they will be in that area is affected by.



You're not saying anything here.

"It is aoe"

"It will affect him"

And do what?

Are you going to show me where it says his bankai can reflect illusions or was that a lie?

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I mean you really haven't when hashirama has sage mode so enlighten me on how he's getting hashirama unaware and what his counter to illusion is or shut up.



I really don't think you understand shunsuis abilities here. Shadow manipulation, the color game which is restricted to cutting so any other attacks won't work. And then his bankai which you have no defense against here.That's what I'm waiting on.If he beats bankai he wins but you have explained nothing on the matter


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> I really don't think you understand shunsuis abilities here. Shadow manipulation, the color game which is restricted to cutting so any other attacks won't work. And then his bankai which you have no defense against here.That's what I'm waiting on.If he beats bankai he wins but you have explained nothing on the matter



I don't that's why I was asking. I told you hashirama can take his ability to see. 

What's so special about his bankai? You haven't said anything.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> You're not saying anything here.
> 
> "It is aoe"
> 
> ...


Why don't you just read where his bankai affects everyone around him. Hence why Ukitake says "you shouldn't use your bankai here." Do you want scans or are you going to misread those too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Why don't you just read where his bankai affects everyone around him. Hence why Ukitake says "you shouldn't use your bankai here." Do you want scans or are you going to misread those too.



Jesus Christ

It affects him.

Then what???

What does it do? Can you not read?


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> * Karamatsu Shinjū *is a tricky thing to decipher.  Just injuring him will cause Kyoraku's injuries to be replicated onto the aggressor; the second Dan inflicts the enemy with an illness that causes profuse bleeding; the third Dan will drown the person who has less power/reiatsu between Kyoraku and his opponent, while the Final Dan slits his enemy's throats, and blows it off with reiatsu.
> 
> Unless Hashirama can regenerate his head, he's not coming back from the last one.



Here Catalyst already said it once


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

You are the one who didn't read


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

I already responded to that.

That's not impressive at all  hashirama can regenerate, he has other clones which can take damage not that that'll be a factor and can literally grind Shunsui into paste with casual attacks and rob him of his sight.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I already responded to that.
> 
> That's not impressive at all  hashirama can regenerate, he has other clones which can take damage not that that'll be a factor and can literally grind Shunsui into paste with casual attacks and rob him of his sight.



He can regenerate his head? Hmm didn't know that. Whelp guess you win. I forgot Naruto ninjas can survive their heads being exploded from the neck without being an edo or immortal. Must've missed that chapter...


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Hashirama's not regenerating from the final dan lmao... First dan depends entirely on the amount of damage done.
Even the second dan is questionable.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> He can regenerate his head? Hmm didn't know that. Whelp guess you win. I forgot Naruto ninjas can survive their heads being exploded from the neck without being an edo or immortal. Must've missed that chapter...



He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs. 

He's literally the only one who can do this. 



Keishin said:


> Hashirama's not regenerating from the final dan lmao... First dan depends entirely on the amount of damage done.
> Even the second dan is questionable.


 
It's got no real feats except making a guy ill. It didn't even kill him. 

And I already said how hashirama can spam clones to take him out.


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs.
> 
> He's literally the only one who can do this.
> 
> ...


So? Those are some pretty big holes there...


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs.
> 
> He's literally the only one who can do this.
> 
> ...



So you're saying he can regen his severed and exploded head. Also it didn't kill the guy BECAUSE his regen was that much better than anything we've seen from anyone in Naruto. He lost his head then brought it back. If you lose your head you're dead in most cases. Hashirama will be no different you can't even defend that.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Keishin said:


> So? Those are some pretty big holes there...



EXTREMELY big holes.


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I was reffering to the game, yeah.
> 
> Movement as a whole is going to be fucked for shunsui tho if he can't see.
> 
> And he's not getting the drop on hashirama.



...friend, do you not realize that Shinigami have a sixth sense regarding being able to see Reiatsu as a whole? They pretty much have a built in Sharingan like the Quincy do. Bringer of Darkness isn't going to do shit when even old ass Hiruzen was able to grab Hashirama and Tobirama despite being blocked of his ability to see. It's not a gamechanger as it should be in context and execution.



Kaaant said:


> Sounds like projection but ok.





Kaaant said:


> What's so special about his bankai? You haven't said anything.



@Catalyst75 Has already told you exactly what his Bankai does but to clarify:
It's an AOE type of ability that drags people into his "play"
Where any damage he takes in the First Dan will be immediately transfered to his target(whether or not they are intangible like Lille exactly was at that point)
The 2nd Dan which causes them to gain an incurable sickness and causes them to bleed like crazy(meaning Hashirama will need his Byakugo on constantly just to stay alive
The 3rd Dan apparently has both of them start losing Reiatsu at a quick rate until they drown in an eternal sea.
And the 4th Dan literally just has Shunsui decapitate them, again even if they are intangible just like that.

Hashirama is not regenerating his head.



Kaaant said:


> He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs.
> 
> He's literally the only one who can do this.



Wow, the hyperbole on this one is absolutely AMAZING! Madara was most likely referring to the fact that Hashirama can regenerate faster and with less difficulty than Tsunade can, not that he can regenerate his head and missing vitals because if that was the case, THEN HOW DID HASHIRAMA DIE IN THE BATTLE HE CANONICALLY DIED IN!?



Kaaant said:


> It's got no real feats except making a guy ill. It didn't even kill him.
> 
> And I already said how hashirama can spam clones to take him out.



Oh yeah no feats...from an intangible being that can regenerate his head and make himself stronger...as you even stated we see later on!

What the fuck man?!


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Damn holes what a game changer. 


shunsui1 said:


> So you're saying he can regen his severed and exploded head. Also it didn't kill the guy BECAUSE his regen was that much better than anything we've seen from anyone in Naruto. He lost his head then brought it back. If you lose your head you're dead in most cases. Hashirama will be no different you can't even defend that.



I just told you he can recreate organs. Dude literally makes his clones' heads from his own body. 

Can Shunsui come back from a destroyed head? Why do you keep going on about this?


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs.
> 
> He's literally the only one who can do this.
> 
> ...


Tsunade would have died had Katsuya had not assisted you might have missed that part of that battle so its not that she can't use it but who is going to pull harashima back together this time?

Last Dan drains your soul and you disintegrate into nothing. Show me one scan of human hashi doing this and you win.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

She was out of energy.

Show me where it says the last dan drains your soul of energy thanks.

CNBC reported.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He's got better regen than tsunade who can regenerate organs.
> 
> He's literally the only one who can do this.



We've never seen him do it, however, as the only time we've seen him extensively on-screen _was when he was an Edo Tensei.
_
Are you *trying* to NLF Hashirama's regeneration.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah man. Tsunade would easily no-sell the final Dan @shunsui1 it's just a couple of shoulders and everything up from there.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> We've never seen him do it, however, as the only time we've seen him extensively on-screen _was when he was an Edo Tensei.
> _
> Are you *trying* to NLF Hashirama's regeneration.



>nlf 
>"his regeneration is better than tsunade's who can regenerate organs"

Where's the nlf?


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Damn holes what a game changer.
> 
> 
> I just told you he can recreate organs. Dude literally makes his clones' heads from his own body.
> ...


 
You telling me he can doesn't change you being wrong in the slightest.
 1st Dan shared damage but can't kill
2nd Dan bleeding profusely from the illness
3rd Dan abyss(energy drain)
Final Dan a thought slitting explosion from your next to your head destroying it completely.

You cannot take your clones head as when the user of the clones die so do they. That's never been seen in Naruto where you can take your clones head.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> She was out of energy.
> 
> Show me where it says the last dan drains your soul of energy thanks.
> 
> CNBC reported.




Explode implode disintegrate lillie became nothing then reformed from nothing after that.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Yeah man. Tsunade would easily no-sell the final Dan @shunsui1 it's just a couple of shoulders and everything up from there.



Shit you right. I forgot how OP she was when she's drunk.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Explode implode disintegrate lillie became nothing then reformed from nothing after that.



Hashi can't come back from nothing. 

How is he stopping Hashi shitting on him before this point?


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> >nlf
> >"his regeneration is better than tsunade's who can regenerate organs"
> 
> Where's the nlf?



*Claiming Hashirama can regenerate his head with no evidence to support it.  *

Reactions: Agree 5 | Optimistic 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Claiming Hashirama can regenerate his head with no evidence to support it.  *



That's not a nlf you retard. 

. jpg


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Claiming Hashirama can regenerate his head with no evidence to support it.  *



At this rate, I swear he's a damn troll and no one can be this ignorant.
Hashirama has never regenerated his head while he was alive, not once yet he somehow believes he can because Madara says his Bakugou is better than Tsunade's, that is literally the biggest leap in logic if I ever saw one.

Again, Shunsui actually CAN take on the Narutoverse and win considering if his Shikai and Bankai actually can work immediately upon seeing the targets. He's honestly one of the few who could due to his abilities being pure hax rather than DC.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

"Biggest leap in logic"

"Hashirama is better than you"


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> That's not a nlf you retard.
> 
> . jpg



That's hyperbole you dumbass.
If we actually see Tsunade lose her head and make a new one or even lost an arm and regrew it, you would actually have a point.
But considering the fact we've seen Byakugou take it's toll badly on her even when she's been simply slashed badly doesn't make it look better.


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> "Biggest leap in logic"
> 
> "Hashirama is better than you"



Resorting to childish logic now? I mean that's pretty damn sad for a person wanting his arguments to be taken seriously.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

>childish

It's simple powerscaling.

Why are you so upset?



Xhominid said:


> That's hyperbole you dumbass.
> If we actually see Tsunade lose her head and make a new one or even lost an arm and regrew it, you would actually have a point.
> But considering the fact we've seen Byakugou take it's toll badly on her even when she's been simply slashed badly doesn't make it look better.



I don't think you know what hyperbole is.


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> How is he stopping Hashi shitting on him before this point?


Easy by claiming nlf fanfic instead of post, and calcs and fests.

But it's quite simple Shun will not be blitzed here at all, with shikai it nologer is a IL do my thing you do your thing fight. 
Shun can send his illusions through the shadows as well with his games replicating the pain team attack. Lol

And it's one on one shun isn't some dumb fucking shitbird he's going to bankai from the jump.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

I do not understand what you just wrote. 

Tsunade: "I can heal all my organs"
Madara: "Hashirama has the same technique as you and he's better at it"

Where's the nlf?


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> That's not a nlf you retard.



It is when you assume Hashirama is some kind of planarian, _when no basis in the manga has been given for the Byakugo's regenerative power being able to regenerate the head.  
_
Power-scaling _doesn't matter_ in that kind of situation, given what you are proposing is physically impossible for Hashirama.



Kaaant said:


> Tsunade: "I can heal all my organs"
> Madara: "Hashirama has the same technique as you and he's better at it"
> 
> Where's the nlf?



See the above.  

You are _making the assumption_ that _the entire head_ is among those "organs" that Byakugo can regenerate.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is when you assume Hashirama is some kind of planarian, _when no basis in the manga has been given for the Byakugo's regenerative power being able to regenerate the head.
> _
> Power-scaling _doesn't matter_ in that kind of situation, given what you are proposing is physically impossible for Hashirama.
> 
> ...



She makes no distinction. She says any body parts or organs. 

It's on you to prove otherwise.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> She makes no distinction. She says any body parts or organs.
> 
> It's on you to prove otherwise.


Like I said 

But you still haven't even proven your own claim guy. Where is your proof that your statement holds any weight? 
A kishi interview, manga, anime, movie, filler, where are you getting this fake news?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> >childish
> 
> It's simple powerscaling.
> 
> Why are you so upset?



I'm not the one downplaying everyone else over nothing more than nonsense that has never been proven in the manga at all.
And upset? You sound way more upset than I ever could.



Kaaant said:


> I don't think you know what hyperbole is.



*Definition of hyperbole*
: exaggeration (such as "mile-high ice-cream cones")

Yeah I'm using it right.



Kaaant said:


> She makes no distinction. She says any body parts or organs.
> 
> It's on you to prove otherwise.



That's not how burden of proof works dumbass. YOU need to provide proof in your case since you are the one who says that she can regenerate any part of her body. YOU need to show proof that she can not just with words, but actually seeing her do so.

We have SEEN how Shunsui Shikai and Bankai work, we have seen the fact that NOTHING can effect Lille because he has intangibility and actual massive regeneration considering he can back from losing his head completely. 
PROVE YOUR DAMN WORDS ALREADY!

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Ok buddy. 

Keep screaming via caps. 

Tell me I'm upset again please.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I do not understand what you just wrote.
> 
> Tsunade: "I can heal all my organs"
> Madara: "Hashirama has the same technique as you and he's better at it"
> ...


Even then, how do you explain this? She couldn't even regrow legs?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Boruto (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> She makes no distinction. She says any body parts or organs.
> 
> It's on you to prove otherwise.



That's pushing it tbh. If she specifically mentioned the head you'd have a point, but there isn't enough evidence to say that. It might have been hyperbole, no one in Naruto except for Juubi Jinchuuriki/Kaguya have feats of regeneration on that level to back that up.

Madara had Hashirama's cells and could't even regenerate his arm after the Bijuu crushed him and had to attach a White Zetsu arm to his stump, IIRC. Though I guess you could argue Hashirama's regeneration is far superior since he's obviously made up entirely of Hashi cells and doesn't just have a Hashiboob like Madara.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

You mean while she was bankrupt on chakra?

It's a lower end feat.



skullguy said:


> That's pushing it tbh. If she specifically mentioned the head you'd have a point, but there isn't enough evidence to say that. It might have been hyperbole, no one in Naruto except for Juubi Jinchuuriki/Kaguya have feats of regeneration on that level to back that up.
> 
> Madara had Hashirama's cells and could't even regenerate his arm after the Bijuu crushed him and had to attach a White Zetsu arm, IIRC. Though I guess you could argue Hashirama's regeneration is far superior since he's obviously made up entirely of Hashi cells and doesn't just have a Hashiboob like Madara.



She said any body parts, someone would need to explain to me why the head is some special snowflake when she didn't even specify it as such. 

The cluster of hashirama' cells by the mazou literally makes limbs and bodies for obito and madara anyway.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

In other words, you're making the claim that _you don't need to prove anything,_ because of an assumption you made about the extent of Byakugo's regeneration, while _forcing the burden of proof_ onto others to disprove it.

Ignoring the fact that the _*only *_living character confirmed able to survive having their _*head cut off*_ is Hidan, _a freaking immortal.  _More importantly, Hidan's case has the body become completely inactive if his head is removed from it, _so how would Hashirama's body regenerate if he gets his head cut off?  _Are you just going to blindly assume that Hashirama can regenerate _everything from the neck down?
_

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> You mean while she was bankrupt on chakra?
> 
> It's a lower end feat.
> 
> ...


Show me one panel of her regrowing her head just one.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

>don't need to prove anything
>I post several scans 
>you post nothing 
>claim it's an exception when it's not remarked as such.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 2


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Ok buddy.
> 
> Keep screaming via caps.
> 
> Tell me I'm upset again please.



Because apparently you can't understand otherwise.



Kaaant said:


> >don't need to prove anything
> >I post several scans
> >you post nothing
> >claim it's an exception when it's not remarked as such.



You didn't prove anything but wind, air and numerous levels of hyperbole. Might as well say that Naruto can avoid FTL attacks now so we can really see how ridiculous you are.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> >don't need to prove anything
> >I post several scans
> >you post nothing
> >claim it's an exception when it's not remarked as such.



Your credibility as a debater is just...wow

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

You don't know what hyperbole is.

Madara stated he has the same technique as her.

That is not hyperbole.

You need to chill.



Gunstarvillain said:


> Your credibility as a debater is just...wow



He said he didn't need to prove anything despite the claims he's making. 

I was quoting him.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

As soon as the first dan ends shunsui is paste. 

Even in the first one Hashi could harm himself and heal from it thus killing shunsui

This debate is boring.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Show me one panel of her regrowing her head just one.



He's gone full-on OMGMAN and Comic fan 101-levels of debating.  I know from experience that it is like debating a stone wall, at that point.



Kaaant said:


> As soon as the first dan ends shunsui is paste.
> 
> Even in the first one Hashi could harm himself and heal from it thus killing shunsui
> 
> This debate is boring.



Except for the fact that Shunsui still has the other three Dan at his disposal, the last of which you have provided no proof of Hashirama being able to survive.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Not if he's dead before that point. 

Of which I'm hearing any arguments as to why he's not.


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> You don't know what hyperbole is.
> 
> Madara stated he has the same technique as her.
> 
> ...



1. Just gave you the definition from Merriam-Webster and *even the damn link not awhile ago*...
2. Yeah but that doesn't mean it somehow regrows limbs, removed vitals and their freaking head.
3. Yes it is.
4. Damage control.



Kaaant said:


> As soon as the first dan ends shunsui is paste.



Not when he's bleeding like a turkey and constantly losing his chakra to the 2nd and 3rd Dans. Hell, that should kill Hashirama stupid quickly, to be frank.



Kaaant said:


> Even in the first one Hashi could harm himself and heal from it thus killing shunsui



Um no, We've only seen the damage that is inflicted on Shunsui pass onto everyone else, not from everyone else onto Shunsui. After all his 2nd Dan doesn't affect him but his 3rd Dan does.



Kaaant said:


> This debate is boring.


Desperately trying to leave a losing battle in "style" right?



Kaaant said:


> Not if he's dead before that point.
> 
> Of which I'm hearing any arguments as to why he's not.



You haven't proved a damn thing on how Hashirama would survive without a head and not posting any real evidence whatsoever.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

I've posted the quotes ad nauseum. There's nothing else to say if you're not going to show me where it says the head is somehow excluded.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Esano (Nov 2, 2017)

His hax is pretty crazy, if he starts with them enabled in the later rounds he could do some damage.
But Naruto verse has plenty of hax too, Itachi solo


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Itachi is a bitch we all know it.


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## Esano (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Itachi is a bitch we all know it.






Itachi points

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Kishimoto literally gave all the hax in the series to the uchiha eyes

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Esano (Nov 2, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Kishimoto literally gave all the hax in the series to the uchiha eyes


There are some other haxes, but yeah pretty much, Hax was kinda their thing.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I've posted the quotes ad nauseum. There's nothing else to say if you're not going to show me where it says the head is somehow excluded.



_*Common sense*_ would tell you that the head is excluded from that equation.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> _*Common sense*_ would tell you that the head is excluded from that equation.



No it doesn't. Still waiting. 

It's boring now.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 2, 2017)

Her best feat is regening some of her spine, and thats it. Her Byakugo was said to be on the same level of Hashirama's regen. Stop wanking, the only character in Naruto that can regen from losing parts of their head are juubi hosts.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> No it doesn't. Still waiting.
> 
> It's boring now.



Yep, you're just like Comic Fan 101 and OMGMAN. 

You're engaging in the "absence of evidence"/"argument from ignorance" fallacy *hard, *especially given how you are ignoring that there is no scene in the manga where Hashirama regenerates his head, nor evidence to support that idea.  
*
*

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Nice projection. What scans have you posted again?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Regicide (Nov 2, 2017)

Literally all you guys had to ask was how he regenerates without a brain. Isn't chakra connected to your nervous system to at least some extent?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Literally all you guys had to ask was how he regenerates without a brain. Isn't chakra connected to your nervous system to at least some extent?



Pretty much.  Spiritual energy (one part of Chakra) is even derived from the mind's consciousness.  So, separating the head from the body would separate the mind from the rest of the body, and impact the Chakra system.

Hidan has been the only exception because of his immortality.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

The brain is one of the chakra gates or something.

Sasori and Kakuzu's hearts operate without a brain.

Oro's body reattached itself when it was cut in two.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Guy it's obvious he has no clue what he's talking about. He even says it's boring now like that guy you play online on smash for 1 hour who never wins but claims he's bored lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Esano said:


> His hax is pretty crazy, if he starts with them enabled in the later rounds he could do some damage.
> But Naruto verse has plenty of hax too, Itachi solo



It's A 1v1 fight as it is so of course he solos if he wins the fight

Reactions: Funny 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

I'll bite though since you want a scan of what's stopping hashirama from attacking during the bankais activation right? The answer is nothing Is stopping him but he won't do any damage.


Watch from 5:00 to 6:00. He is attacked by Lille while in bankai and his attack does nothing. Shunsui doesn't dodge he doesn't defend. Because he is already in bankai and cannot be affected by other ways.


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> The brain is one of the chakra gates or something.
> 
> Sasori and Kakuzu's hearts operate without a brain.
> 
> Oro's body reattached itself when it was cut in two.



1. Just because the brain is one of the chakra points doesn't mean the body can somehow live without the brain. That is true in both Naruto and in Real Life. Only the Juubi hosts can survive shit like losing their head.

2. No they don't. Sasori's container was explicitly more than just his heart as it was stated to be his vitals meaning that it's just more than his heart in there.

3. Oro was pretty much a mass of snakes at that point then anything close to a human body, that doesn't help your point at all.



Regicide said:


> Literally all you guys had to ask was how he regenerates without a brain. Isn't chakra connected to your nervous system to at least some extent?



We didn't think we actually had to ask him something so blatantly simple.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> I'll bite though since you want a scan of what's stopping hashirama from attacking during the bankais activation right? The answer is nothing Is stopping him but he won't do any damage.
> 
> 
> Watch from 5:00 to 6:00. He is attacked by Lille while in bankai and his attack does nothing. Shunsui doesn't dodge he doesn't defend. Because he is already in bankai and cannot be affected by other ways.


It says he can't die from the wounds not that he can't be hurt. 

I like how they used the soundtrack used in Meruem vs Netero. 

Nothing stopping hashi sucking him dry of energy


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> It says he can't die from the wounds not that he can't be hurt.
> 
> I like how they used the soundtrack used in Meruem vs Netero.
> 
> Nothing stopping hashi sucking him dry of energy



The attack didn't affect him at all.the shared wounds can't kill. There is literal proof of him not being hurt by an attack just like you asked for and you cannot accept it lol. You do not know how to comprehend words being used against you

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> The attack didn't affect him at all.the shared wounds can't kill. There is literal proof of him not being hurt by an attack just like you asked for and you cannot accept it lol. You do not know how to comprehend words being used against you



I didn't see any attack not work

The wiki stated the damage share goes both ways.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 2, 2017)

He also has that game where the fighter that is higher wins, sadly we never see what happens to the loser. And the step in a shadow thing where he appears out of the opponent's own, and the one with the pseudo teleportation and the clones.

Seriously how is that just a Shikai, it fucking outshines most Bankais 

The Jinchurikis can regenerate their head?


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## Xhominid (Nov 2, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He also has that game where the fighter that is higher wins, sadly we never see what happens to the loser. And the step in a shadow thing where he appears out of the opponent's own, and the one with the pseudo teleportation and the clones.
> 
> Seriously how is that just a Shikai, it fucking outshines most Bankais
> 
> The Jinchurikis can regenerate their head?



I think it's just the Jyubi Jinchuriki's that can regenerate their head. Remember, Kurama had issues healing Naruto's heart and Tsunade had to do that one.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah, I knew the tailed beast can't die because they are just pure energy but when the host is killed they take a time to reform. And all of the 1-6 jinchuriki got killed by conventional means by Akatsuki right?


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## Edward Nygma (Nov 2, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Literally all you guys had to ask was how he regenerates without a brain. Isn't chakra connected to your nervous system to at least some extent?


For real. Chakra aside, how does he even activate the technique? Noone; not Madara, Hashi, nor Tsunade imply they can survive or function without a brain.

You'd have stretch Tsunade's regeneration quote to mean she can also survive and function while missing *any *organ. This is where the NLF/hyperbole comes into play: we don't take claims of (all, every, any) at face value. It has to be backed up with feats.

Hyperbole aside, the Naruto-verse clearly demonstrates that the head is vital for normal bodily functions, including the use of jutsu. The only exceptions to these rules are characters that have undergone extreme body augmentation - Hidan, Sasori, Orochimaru.

Hell, even Hidan would be unable to function after getting his head cremated.



All of that said: if Shinsui isn't 20x faster; Tsukuyomi, gg _way_ before he gets to Hashi.

@me, fam.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Shikai shunsui:

Takaoni
Kageoni
Irooni
Daruma-san ga Koronda
Kageokuri

Bushogoma
Shadow dimension 

Kidos


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

Alright we pretty much got a clear consensus here

There are comicfan101 dupes

And hashi looses his head.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Alright we pretty much got a clear consensus here



Kaaant's been around much longer, but that doesn't hide the fact he's demonstrated a similar debate style.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

As opposed to you who autistically writes out scientific papers on minor points.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Dislike 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Alright so now that we know Shunsui beats Hashi. Does he beat any other top tiers? Such as Madara, Any Hokage and if he does what does it take It?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

We really don't. 

All that's been banged on about is his regen. 

He gets a gate dropped on him right at the start.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Alright so now that we know Shunsui beats Hashi. Does he beat any other top tiers? Such as Madara, Any Hokage and if he does what does it take It?



Kyoraku being able to beat Hashirama means he is able to beat most of the Kage, as a result of both a speed advantage, hax, and DC advantage.


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

>dc
>speed
>beating hashirama

Try again


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> We really don't.
> 
> All that's been banged on about is his regen.
> 
> He gets a gate dropped on him right at the start.



You haven't really proved that he can't you're just throwing out things with no weight to them. Lol he can regen his head with no evidence, he can block his vision no evidence proving that he won't be seen through. He can hurt him in bankai(proven he can't, I had you watch that minute which shows


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

I believe he can beat most but Kage level opponents only with bankai though.(considering there are tiers above that where he'd struggle). The 4th and the Raikage both are much too fast for him imo


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> You haven't really proved that he can't you're just throwing out things with no weight to them. Lol he can regen his head with no evidence, he can block his vision no evidence proving that he won't be seen through. He can hurt him in bankai(proven he can't, I had you watch that minute which shows



I've literally given you scans and no one can prove the head wasn't part of it because that's not implied anywhere. 

I asked you specifically where, because I couldn't see it and it sounds retarded because it defeats the purpose of the bankai' ability to begin with.


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## Sablés (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Alright so now that we know Shunsui beats Hashi.


>Shunsui beating Hashirama

Excuse me?


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## Boruto (Nov 2, 2017)

Sablés said:


> >Shunsui beating Hashirama
> 
> Excuse me?


According to the current lolspeedcalcs, Shunsui is faster and he has the hax. So I guess he does have a good chance of beating him.

Unless if you want to argue Hashi and the other top tiers aren't that far off of Juubi Jinchuuriki, which is what some people do...


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## CrownedEagle (Nov 2, 2017)

Base : Hidan

Shikai : Onoki/A

Bankai : Madara (he can get higher if he use his bankai at the start but stop at Juubito anyway)


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## Sablés (Nov 2, 2017)

skullguy said:


> According to the current lolspeedcalcs, Shunsui is faster and he has the hax. So I guess he does have a good chance of beating him.
> 
> Unless if you want to argue Hashi and the other top tiers aren't that far off of Juubi Jinchuuriki, which is what some people do...


What speed calcs?


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I've literally given you scans and no one can prove the head wasn't part of it because that's not implied anywhere.
> 
> I asked you specifically where, because I couldn't see it and it sounds retarded because it defeats the purpose of the bankai' ability to begin with.



You showed a scan of Tsunade then jumped to saying Hashi can do something he hasn't shown. He can do it no doubt but he cannot regen his head. You haven't shown a scan of him regenerating his head being cut off so no you don't get that. The common consensus @Sablés was that if he goes bankai he would kill him unless he's in edo form. And when you asked I showed you what his Bankai does and showed that you cannot not hit him out of it and unless your reverb is that good you cannot escape it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ho11ow (Nov 2, 2017)

Can genjutsu work on him?


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## Sablés (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> The common consensus @Sablés was that if he goes bankai he would kill him unless he's in edo form. And when you asked I showed you what his Bankai does and showed that you cannot not hit him out of it and unless your reverb is that good you cannot escape it


A consensus doesn't matter if you're wrong.

Shunsui's Bankai can be escaped. Just leave the area or kill his ass before he gets to act 4.

Why would it even come to this anyway? Hashirama can splatter him with ease. It just depends on how quickly he steps up his game.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ho11ow (Nov 2, 2017)

How wide his bankai range? Can it cover Hashi's 1000 hand?


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Hashirama was going to intercept juubi Dama there's no speed disadvantage on his side



shunsui1 said:


> You showed a scan of Tsunade then jumped to saying Hashi can do something he hasn't shown. He can do it no doubt but he cannot regen his head. You haven't shown a scan of him regenerating his head being cut off so no you don't get that. The common consensus @Sablés was that if he goes bankai he would kill him unless he's in edo form. And when you asked I showed you what his Bankai does and showed that you cannot not hit him out of it and unless your reverb is that good you cannot escape it.



"Any organ"

Prove it's an exception 

Or shut up


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## Edward Nygma (Nov 2, 2017)

Sloth said:


> For real. Chakra aside, how does he even activate the technique? Noone; not Madara, Hashi, nor Tsunade imply they can survive or function without a brain.
> 
> You'd have stretch Tsunade's regeneration quote to mean she can also survive and function while missing *any *organ. This is where the NLF/hyperbole comes into play: we don't take claims of (all, every, any) at face value. It has to be backed up with feats.
> 
> ...


@Kaaant forgot to tag you


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

She said any.

So how is it hyperbole?

I already listed characters who functioned without heads, and jutsu and chakra can be programmed to trigger.

The act of creating wood clones itself is hashirama making shit from his own DNA.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Can genjutsu work on him?


 
Yes. It can. KS is basically that so there's no reason it can't.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> She said any.
> 
> So how is it hyperbole?
> 
> ...




Hashirama isn't one of them


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Hashirama was going to intercept juubi Dama there's no speed disadvantage on his side
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prove they can regen their head 

Or you shut up.

Burden of proof has been on you since the beginning.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Prove they can regen their head
> 
> Or you shut up.
> 
> Burden of proof has been on you since the beginning.



I already did.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Sablés said:


> A consensus doesn't matter if you're wrong.
> 
> Shunsui's Bankai can be escaped. Just leave the area or kill his ass before he gets to act 4.
> 
> Why would it even come to this anyway? Hashirama can splatter him with ease. It just depends on how quickly he steps up his game.



*Sigh* Lille couldn't escape. Ichigo felt it from an extremely far distance away. He was attacked in bankai and showed no damage from the attack showing that once you are in the act you cannot escape. You can't say he was damaged because when he was hit it was after his bankais acts ended.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I already did.


You didn't you said Tsunade can but she hasn't without help so you have no say here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> She said any.
> 
> So how is it hyperbole?
> 
> ...


where the fuck is that stated? its just clones made from wood, not his DNA


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Wood Clone Technique (木分身の術, Moku Bunshin no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary
User: Yamato

The protean Wood Clone, reflecting one's whole soul!!

A clone created by altering one's own cells with chakra. It has more endurance than the normal Shadow Clone and doesn't disappear when hit by the enemies attack. Moreover, since it has the ability to merge with plants and trees, it is also great reconnaissance missions!!

[picture of the Wood Clone sprouting from Yamato's body]
↑A Clone created by using chakra and one's own cells!!

[picture of the Wood Clone pursuing Orochimaru, Kabuto, and Sai]
→The clone can also enter the battlefield on its own, being endowed with plenty of offensive and defensive power.

As Yamato showed hashi can reabsorb these clones. 

Yamato has used mokuton to heal before.


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## Sablés (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Ichigo felt it from an extremely far distance away.



And was unharmed. Nanao was much closer and, was also, unharmed.

What is your point?

Reactions: Like 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Sablés said:


> And was unharmed. Nanao was much closer and, was also, unharmed.
> 
> What is your point?



Dan 1: you share the wounds you inflicted on your enemy but they aren't fatal.

Nanao was not fighting anyone and neither was ichigo. The only other possibility was was Mayuri and Pernida however it was already dead. Shunsui even noted he was far enough away from where he left Shinji and the others so they wouldn't be affected.


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## Sablés (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Dan 1: you share the wounds you inflicted on your enemy but they aren't fatal.
> 
> Nanao was not fighting anyone. The only other possibility was was Mayuri and Pernida however it was already dead. Shunsui even noted he was far enough away from where he left Shinji and the others so they wouldn't be affected.


That's nice but what happened to Acts 2-3-4?

There is no mention of anyone else getting caught in Shunsui's Bankai. It's range is more limited than you assume. Hashirama is not one bit strapped for AoE. 



> and neither was ichigo.



This is nothing short of a blatant lie since Ichigo was clearly fighting Askin.


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## Keishin (Nov 2, 2017)

Shunsui wouldn't use it just because Nanao isn't doing anything. He pretty much prayed that she would be far away enough at that point.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Dan 1: you share the wounds you inflicted on your enemy but they aren't fatal.




You didn't mention this. 

So why isn't he getting flattened as soon as the fight starts?


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

Sablés said:


> That's nice but what happened to Acts 2-3-4?
> 
> There is no mention of anyone else getting caught in Shunsui's Bankai. It's range is more limited than you assume. Hashirama is not one bit strapped for AoE.
> 
> ...



I was telling you why he wouldn't be able to escape which is basically the first Dan. And he was fighting Askin and was casually able to look back and relax with no issues.The only time we see them *fighting* was after gerard used his ability.by this time lille was already in the sereitei


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## shunsui1 (Nov 2, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> You telling me he can doesn't change you being wrong in the slightest.
> *1st Dan shared damage but can't kill*
> 2nd Dan bleeding profusely from the illness
> 3rd Dan abyss(energy drain)
> ...



I never mentioned it huh?


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

Ok. And?


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## CrownedEagle (Nov 2, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> How wide his bankai range? Can it cover Hashi's 1000 hand?



most of them won't since his Zanpakuto act like a Bijuu for a Jinchiruuki but OP Genjustu like Izanagi or Izanami may work on him.


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## ho11ow (Nov 2, 2017)

CrownedEagle said:


> most of them won't since his Zanpakuto act like a Bijuu for a Jinchiruuki but OP Genjustu like Izanagi or Izanami may work on him.


Can Shunsui resist this?


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 2, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Can Shunsui resist this?


Yes he can fly


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

It's airborne


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> It's airborne


And? Shinigami can fly above clouds, which i dont recall seeing this go that high


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

I mean hashi can directly affect the growth of the plant and where it goes. 

That would defeat the point of using bankai then


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 2, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I mean hashi can directly affect the growth of the plant and where it goes.
> 
> That would defeat the point of using bankai then


starting distance is 20m and bankai right off the bat means Hashi is fucked


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## Kaaant (Nov 2, 2017)

No it doesn't.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> No it doesn't.


Yes it does, 2nd Dan fucks him hard and Shunsui is faster than him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Xhominid (Nov 3, 2017)

The problem is that it doesn't matter how much faster or slower a character is since Shunsui's Shikai or Bankai are on by default in each round.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Yes it does, 2nd Dan fucks him hard and Shunsui is faster than him



It doesn't. 

How fast is shunsui? The eight tails reacted to the juubi's laser and hashi was going to intercept juubi dama


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> How fast is shunsui? The eight tails reacted to the juubi's laser and hashi was going to intercept juubi dama


it fucked up Lille, a dude who can teleport and is stronger than Hashi physically.

Hashi is mach 450 and Shunsui is around mach 500-1.2k iirc


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## Edward Nygma (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Shunsui is around *mach 500-1.2k iirc*


Tsukuyomi, gg.

Sasuke could react to E with Susanoo just days after he fought Itachi. Itachi easily gets the highest reactions in Naruto.



Kaaant said:


> She said any.
> 
> So how is it hyperbole?


The word "any". We don't take claims like this at face value. Especially when it contradicts source material.

This is no different than Superman being able to lift _*any*_thing or that Saitama can one-punch *any*one. Feats or get out.



Kaaant said:


> I already listed characters who functioned without heads,


All characters that have had extensive body mods. You literally listed the exceptions to the rule. 

We have no reason to think Tsunade or Hashirama have had the kind of modifications necessary to survive without a head. There are less than 10 human characters with this quality - it is very much on you to show that Hashirama is apart of this fringe group.

His healing prowess might be enough to regrow brain tissue, but nothing suggests that he would survive the ordeal in order to try.



Kaaant said:


> and jutsu and chakra can be programmed to trigger.


That's not flying when one of his Chakra gates is literally missing. Your body isn't molding chakra in that state.



Kaaant said:


> The act of creating wood clones itself is hashirama making shit from his own DNA.


Even if the data book wasn't 2nd tier canon (at best) it wouldn't change the fact that Hashi had a brain when he made those clones. Like I said above, he might have the regenerative powers, but as far as we have been shown he needs to be alive to use it.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Depends on the tier of the genjutsu. As long as you can break out of it, Shunsui should be able to do it because he has two zanpakuto/asauchi.


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## Vicotex (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Depends on the tier of the genjutsu. As long as you can break out of it, Shunsui should be able to do it because he has two zanpakuto/asauchi.


Don't imply he can break out of genjutsu because he hasn't any feat of breaking an illusion /genjutsu


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## Vicotex (Nov 3, 2017)

Because he has 2 zanpakuto / asauchi doesn't grant him immunity to genjutsu.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Vicotex said:


> Don't imply he can break out of genjutsu because he hasn't any feat of breaking an illusion /genjutsu


All you need to do is blast your chakra around and if that doesn't work then someone else needs to slap you with chakra and you're out. That has nothing to do with overall illusions, it has to do with the weakness of genjutsus...


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## Vicotex (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> All you need to do is blast your chakra around and if that doesn't work then someone else needs to slap you with chakra and you're out. That has nothing to do with overall illusions, it has to do with the weakness of genjutsus...


Shunsui has no info of genjutsu, he doesn't know how it works.
Naruto, a jinchuriki got fucked multiple times via genjutsu


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

He doesn't need info because bleach characters use exploding reiatsu power ups all the time. All you need it to fight without an unsealed zan.

Naruto was not the best of frienss with the mad dog kurama back then so thats literally irrelevant. Sakura could have gotten him out.


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## Vicotex (Nov 3, 2017)

Exploding raitsu =/= breaking genjutsu when you don't have any first hand info


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

What does info even matter when the first thing they will always do in a pinch with their zan spirit is basically the counter to genjutsu to begin with.


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## Stermor (Nov 3, 2017)

so what happens when hashirama just enters a tree.. shunsui can't see him or do anything to him.. pretty much with any shred of knowlegde about shunsui, or even some common sense he would just hide in a tree somewhere where shunsui won't even find him.. just have some clones/ wood constructs destroy shunsui. very effective and low risk strategy to beat shunsui. 

also hashirama pretty much won't die unless he actually gets decapitated. remember he has better regen then tsunade.


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## Imagine (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> it fucked up Lille, a dude who can teleport and is stronger than Hashi physically.
> 
> Hashi is mach 450 and Shunsui is around mach 500-1.2k iirc


Where the mach 1.2k come from in Bleach? The 200/500 multiplier and 5000 were the only mhs Bleach calc to my knowledge


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Where the mach 1.2k come from in Bleach? The 200/500 multiplier and 5000 were the only mhs Bleach calc to my knowledge


IIRC it was from Yhwach's shadows, considering how well Shunsui did against Lille, the 2nd strongest sternritter, he should get it. Fucking Orihime reacted to the shadows


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## Regicide (Nov 3, 2017)

Given she was also reacting to Yhwach's sword swings, that's not as unimpressive as it sounds.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Given she was also reacting to Yhwach's sword swings, that's not as unimpressive as it sounds.



Author convenience for a Mary Sue, I imagine.    Seriously, she couldn't react to _freaking Tsukishima_ in the previous arc, but one stint in Hueco Mundo and she can react to attacks from _Yhwach.

_


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## Hamaru (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Shunsui: Iroony black
> 
> Naruto: Iroony Orange
> 
> Shunsui: you don't get this game do you.




This really made me lol because I can see it happening.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Regicide said:


> Given she was also reacting to Yhwach's sword swings, that's not as unimpressive as it sounds.


Fair. I still dont think her reactions should be above the guy that could near blitz Lille a few times and forced the dude to use his intang when the Royal Guard couldnt even come close to doing that


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## Hamaru (Nov 3, 2017)

As for this thread, wouldn't Obito be the strongest Shunsui can beat?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gunstarvillain (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Author convenience for a Mary Sue, I imagine.    Seriously, she couldn't react to _freaking Tsukishima_ in the previous arc, but one stint in Hueco Mundo and she can react to attacks from _Yhwach.
> _


She did it multiple times although she was still shitting her pants like I can't belive I did it.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Gunstarvillain said:


> She did it multiple times although she was still shitting her pants like I can't belive I did it.



Then followed up with instantly repairing a broken Bankai, _something we were told could not be done by anyone except Nimaiya at the beginning of the arc._


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> As for this thread, wouldn't Obito be the strongest Shunsui can beat?


bankai can hit him while hes intang so im not sure what Obito is gonna do


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## ho11ow (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> bankai can hit him while hes intang so im not sure what Obito is gonna do


Izanagi


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## Xhominid (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Author convenience for a Mary Sue, I imagine.    Seriously, she couldn't react to _freaking Tsukishima_ in the previous arc, but one stint in Hueco Mundo and she can react to attacks from _Yhwach.
> _



Considering Urahara forced them to train in the final arc with him in Heuco Muendo, them getting that strong really isn't that impossible since there was still plenty of Quincy and possible Quincy Arrancar still within Heuco Muendo.


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## Xhominid (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Then followed up with instantly repairing a broken Bankai, _something we were told could not be done by anyone except Nimaiya at the beginning of the arc._



...You can't be serious?

We have seen Orihime's ability is not fucking healing things, it's returning them exactly to what they once was. The fact you would actually believe Mayuri who never even knew the full scope of Orihime's ability makes that even more laughable(since while he saw it, he usually needs to see plenty of times on top of doing the typical evil scientist schtick to know if she could or not)


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## Hamaru (Nov 3, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Izanagi



He wouldn't use Izanagi because he'd assume intang would keep him safe.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> ...You can't be serious?



Considering how it is _the one ability_ in the series that can do that, as well as being _the one ability _described as "violating the realm of God", being the _only Human-based ability _to have sentient embodiment that give themselves names, _which occurred months before we learned that Shinigami Zanpakuto had Shikai, names, and Zanpakuto Spirits...
_
So, yeah, I am serious.


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## Xhominid (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Considering how it is _the one ability_ in the series that can do that, as well as being _the one ability _described as "violating the realm of God", being the _only Human-based ability _to have sentient embodiment that give themselves names, _which occurred months before we learned that Shinigami Zanpakuto had Shikai, names, and Zanpakuto Spirits...
> _
> So, yeah, I am serious.



I can name that type of shit in seriously 3 words: GOLDEN. EXPERIENCE. REQUIEM!

Get a goddamn grip on that shit for once. She couldn't heal the Soul King with it, she can't heal when the reiatsu interfering with it is too great and she can't heal something that destroys reiatsu, her ability has clear limits regardless.

Man, you are still that salty over Orihime...really!?


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> I can name that type of shit in seriously 3 words: GOLDEN. EXPERIENCE. REQUIEM!



Only for that to be one-upped by "Stairway to Heaven", be the product of a rare interaction with the very Arrow that gave many Stand Users in Pre-Part VII JoJo's Bizarre Adventure their Stand Abilities, and _Eyes of Heaven_ introducing a Stand superior to even that.

JoJo _thrives_ on the Superpower Lottery, and Semantic Superpowers.  Gold Experience is par for the course for the setting, removing "effect" and leaving only the "cause", while a power like King Crimson removes "cause" and leaves "effect".



Xhominid said:


> She couldn't heal the Soul King with it,



The Soul King was a corpse, so no life to return to it, for all intents and purposes.



Xhominid said:


> she can't heal when the reiatsu interfering with it is too great



Not really a significant limitation.



Xhominid said:


> and she can't heal something that destroys reiatsu,



When did something like this ever come up?



Xhominid said:


> her ability has clear limits regardless.



Death and an ability that messes with causality are the _only two limitations_ the Rikka has.  And I've seen people even brush off the latter as "she's just not powerful enough _yet".  _Otherwise, Soten Kisshun (the one aspect of the Rikka that gets any focus) has no limits, on top of being the only ability in the series with an ability to "reverse things so they never happened".

In short, while the three _Causality manipulators_ among the Quincy (Yhwach, Haschwalth and Uryu) either "alter the future" to make future events occur in the present (Yhwach), or manipulate "cause and effect" to switch events that occurred to one individual/object onto another (Haschwalth and Uryu), Inoue is the _only character_ who can make an event "not be".

And if her fans had their way, she could make _people, _or objects as powerful as *Hogyoku, *"not be" just as easily.


_

_


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

How fast is shunsui?


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> I was telling you why he wouldn't be able to escape which is basically the first Dan.



You brought up Ichigo being influenced by Shunsui's reiatsu as a point to it's range. Ichigo doesn't get affected by any of the other acts so we have no reason to believe the first would extend all that way.

There is nothing stopping Hashirama from tossing Shunsui to the next continent with the hilarious difference in power,

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> As for this thread, wouldn't Obito be the strongest Shunsui can beat?


Obito and any Kamui user like him is the worst possible opponent for Shunsui

 it's nothing like Lille's intangibility because their bodies aren't in the present dimension.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> You brought up Ichigo being influenced by Shunsui's reiatsu as a point to it's range. Ichigo doesn't get affected by any of the other acts so we have no reason to believe the first would extend all that way.
> 
> There is nothing stopping Hashirama from tossing Shunsui to the next continent with the hilarious difference in power,



The first act is the trigger. Share the battle wounds of your opponent. And because of the shame of those wounds you become sick and thus you have to deal with the second act. Ichigo and Nanao were in the bankais range but has nothing to cause the first act to trigger with them.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> The first act is the trigger. Share the battle wounds of your opponent. And because of the shame of those wounds you become sick and thus you have to deal with the second act. Ichigo and Nanao were in the bankais range but has nothing to cause the first act to trigger with them.


Headcanon.

By this logic, you do get that Shunsui's Bankai literally won't work unless his opponent injures him first?

I mean, it's also wrong. Simply because Shunsui was going to use it at Ukitake's request, without suffering any injuries. Adding to that, Askin had already fought and injured Grimmjow earlier. Why weren't his injuries swapped?


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Headcanon.
> 
> By this logic, you do get that Shunsui's Bankai literally won't work unless his opponent injures him first?
> 
> I mean, it's also wrong. Simply because Shunsui was going to use it at Ukitake's request, without suffering any injuries. Adding to that, Askin had already fought and injured Grimmjow earlier. Why weren't his injuries swapped?



Chapter 124 is up

Chapter 124 is up

He doesn't look very hurt to me and this Is when he was affected. Also I cannot vouch for grimmjow because he didn't really injure him he and nobody can say how far or close he was because of all of the events it took before he came back into that particular fight.

As for the fight with Stark and shunsui if you look at that fight you'll see that the only one who was injured was the shinigami side. 

Halibel- wasn't injured frozen but not injured

Barragan- completely untouched

Starrk- untouched.

 Everyone else on the enemy side assumed dead. except for the tres bestias weren't but that's just surprising that they even survived that.

Take note that after stark released he injured shunsui just a little so the wounds would've triggered.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> Chapter 124 is up
> 
> Chapter 124 is up
> 
> ...


I don't care about the other arrancar and what you're using to define as wounds, is also seriously worrying.

I mean even besides all that, you didn't even answer the glaring hole that's dug up when you assume the first dan needs to activate for the other 3 to work. Shunsui's Bankai is useless against anyone who has the power to one-shot him.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> I don't care about the other arrancar and what you're using to define as wounds, is also seriously worrying.
> 
> I mean even besides all that, you didn't even answer the glaring hole that's dug up when you assume the first dan needs to activate for the other 3 to work. Shunsui's Bankai is useless against anyone who has the power to one-shot him.



If you don't care then you're not listening to the point. I did answer it earlier. His Bankai is a play which you're pulled into it stands. Plays have acts. You can't start a play from act two. And the one shot thing with shunsui is highly unlikely considering he's shown to have crazy durability.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Only for that to be one-upped by "Stairway to Heaven", be the product of a rare interaction with the very Arrow that gave many Stand Users in Pre-Part VII JoJo's Bizarre Adventure their Stand Abilities, and _Eyes of Heaven_ introducing a Stand superior to even that.
> 
> JoJo _thrives_ on the Superpower Lottery, and Semantic Superpowers.  Gold Experience is par for the course for the setting, removing "effect" and leaving only the "cause", while a power like King Crimson removes "cause" and leaves "effect".
> 
> ...


Actually Orihime brought dead people back to life, more than once iirc. 


Sablés said:


> Obito and any Kamui user like him is the worst possible opponent for Shunsui
> 
> it's nothing like Lille's intangibility because their bodies aren't in the present dimension.


Doesnt matter since his bankai is reality warping and affected people who were intangible through spacial means. Also Obito doesnt have knowledge on it so he isnt gonna know what the fuck is going on when hes suddenly bleeding out his eyes and underwater


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Doesnt matter since his bankai is reality warping


Might want to read up on how Shunsui's zan works

the prerequisite for him to pull off anything won't work on obito.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> ctually Orihime brought dead people back to life, more than once iirc.



Not dead people who have been dead for longer than the span of a minute or more.  Any longer than that, or the ability to straight up resurrect the dead, would just further prove the point I was making.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> If you don't care then you're not listening to the point. I did answer it earlier. His Bankai is a play which you're pulled into it stands. Plays have acts. You can't start a play from act two. And the one shot thing with shunsui is highly unlikely considering he's shown to have crazy durability.


You ignored the point

Again


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

What point am I missing here?


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

> the glaring hole that's dug up when you assume the first dan needs to activate for the other 3 to work. Shunsui's Bankai is useless against anyone who has the power to one-shot him.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> If you don't care then you're not listening to the point. I did answer it earlier. *His Bankai is a play which you're pulled into it stands. Plays have acts. You can't start a play from act two. *And the one shot thing with shunsui is highly unlikely considering he's shown to have crazy



I'd love to believe he could just spam the 5th Dan whenever he wants but he's only shown it in this form and explained the play to lille while fighting him saying that first they share the wounds, and after doing that the next is the "pillow of shame" which causes the profuse bleeding and illness.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

And so on and so forth but he hasn't shown to skip acts he's only shown to go in order


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

No. Again. You missed the point.

You say the first act is necessary to continue others.

Okay? That's nice. So what does this mean for when Shunsui's activates Bankai? He can't use it unless someone hurts him first or vice versa.

Hashirama will K.O him with the first blow.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Might want to read up on how Shunsui's zan works
> 
> the prerequisite for him to pull off anything won't work on obito.


Obito can't fight while being intangible. He can't do anything as a matter of fact.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> No. Again. You missed the point.
> 
> You say the first act is necessary to continue others.
> 
> ...


 And I explained that shunsui has incredible durability so why is he of all characters going to be one shot when he's survived getting shot in the eye and kept fighting. And also holes in his foot shoulder and stomach and still was able to run away and attack again, then escape again and activate bankai then when he thought the fight was over he was shot AGAIN in the stomach and still managed to escape with Nanao into the shadows.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Obito can't fight while being intangible. He can't do anything as a matter of fact.


Obito needs one instant to grab Shunsui and defeat him with BFR.

Seeing as he's the one one with the initiative and there is no speed difference, his chances of success are very high.



shunsui1 said:


> And I explained that shunsui has incredible durability


That's endurance not durability. Shunsui's durability is shit.

And Hashirama has raw power on the level of Bijuu, which are tiers above anything Shunsui has ever had to deal with. It's ironic how you were ganging up on Kaant for the same mistake you're making right now.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Obito needs one instant to grab Shunsui and defeat him with BFR.
> 
> Seeing as he's the one one with the initiative and there is no speed difference, his chances of success are very high.
> 
> ...


Intangible guy with a BFR that requires grabbing vs a guy that can sit in the air... Sounds like an epic fi-


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> That's endurance not durability. Shunsui's durability is shit.
> 
> And Hashirama has raw power on the level of Bijuu, which are tiers above anything Shunsui has ever had to deal with. It's ironic how you were ganging up on Kaant for the same mistake you're making right now.



I mean he was fighting an invincible God....

But Fair enough. Endurance then. Does not mean he cannot get a win here especially if he pulls off bankai. Which if he really stands no chance without it then why would he not get a win if he released it? His hax works to his advantage.

And no he's claiming things such as if the guy lost his head he can regrow it because he's better than Tsunade at it.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 3, 2017)

Shunsui doesn't need to be hurt to make his first act, same as he didn't need to drown Lille or take away all his energy to complete the second.

He activates the thing, says the words waits a little and is the second act, from there almost everyone gets killed.

And Obito intangibility won't work since is more or less the same as Lille's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> a guy that can sit in the air


Shunsui is primarily a melee fighter. 

You guys need to know your shit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

shunsui1 said:


> I mean he was fighting an invincible God....


Who has nothing on Hashirama in power.



> Does not mean he cannot get a win here especially if he pulls off bankai.


According to you, Shunsui will never even get that far.



> Which if he really stands no chance without it then why would he not get a win if he released it? His hax works to his advantage.


Hashirama has hax, mostly better stats (should be comparable to SM users and Madara) and hilariously greater firepower and range. There's nothing Shunsui can do that he won't counter.



> And no he's claiming things such as if the guy lost his head he can regrow it because he's better than Tsunade at it.


Which is wrong as it's NLF

But saying because Shunsui took shots  from Lille, means he could do the same from vastly more powerful characters is no less an NLF.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Shunsui is primarily a melee fighter.
> 
> You guys need to know your shit.



So sitting on air smirking is part of his basic powerset. Going to be one of the things he would Naturally do if the fight seems pointless.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> So sitting on air smirking is part of his basic powerset. Going to be one of the things he would Naturally do if the fight seems pointless.


Shunsui is bloodlusted. He won't win if he doesn't fight.

He engages in CQC and quickly finds himself in another dimension.

Bankai? Becomes useless and the above repeats itself.

Only scenario where the shit I've been seeing makes sense is if he has full knowledge and as far as I can see, that's not in the match.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

So Obito will grab Shunsui and he will quickly find himself in the other dimension instead of shunsui just slicing his hand off.

Why would the bankai be useless? He's not cqc fighter in that and he can see the form of a persons soul to tell what's wrong with Obito. Obito's soul isn't going to be in the world, only the mirror of his physical form is visible. Sounds like Shunsui can see the spots where to hit to me.
Also the teleportation is pretty damn slow, and requires grab.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Shunsui is bloodlusted. He won't win if he doesn't fight.
> 
> He engages in CQC and quickly finds himself in another dimension.



Cooperative Kyokotsu means starting with the color or shadow game in Shikai or Bankai as his first move.



Sablés said:


> Bankai? Becomes useless and the above repeats itself.
> 
> Only scenario where the shit I've been seeing makes sense is if he has full knowledge and as far as I can see, that's not in the match.



He's the one character in current Gotei that will search for the cheapest way to take down anyone.


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## shunsui1 (Nov 3, 2017)

Lille is again an invincible God. Don't see how many people are higher than that in Naruto. But hey whatever floats your boat here. 

Shunsui was being attacked by that invincible guy until he released Bankai and could still keep going but that means nothing apparently...


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> he will quickly find himself in the other dimension instead of shunsui just slicing his hand off.


Would love to see the feats that lets Shunsui do this.
Probably be hard though, given their speed stat is of negligible difference.



> Why would the bankai be useless?


I urge you to read before you type.

I'm not explaining again.


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## Sablés (Nov 3, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Cooperative Kyokotsu means starting with the color or shadow game in Shikai or Bankai as his first move.


And what is all this supposed to do with against Hashirama chucking an entire forest's worth of island-country level shit at him.


> He's the one character in current Gotei that will search for the cheapest way to take down anyone.


Shame there isn't one except melee, which is the only point where Obito would ever bring down his guard.


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## Lucy75 (Nov 3, 2017)

If we assume shunsui's ability ignores durability then he can probably beat anyone not bijuu level or above tho certain high tiers could likely still beat him as well such as itachi/obito due to genjutsu or nagato. If we assume it doesn't then anyone that gets scaled to lee/mei's meteor busting feats in the last can likely eventually beat him due to superior dura/dc and comparable speed.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> And what is all this supposed to do with against Hashirama chucking an entire forest's worth of island-country level shit at him.



Color game forces a sword duel and shadow power lets him hide in them, so the Buda either does no damage, he hides in a shadow when he feels he can't keep up, or just gets away with his speed and walking in the air ability, since their speeds are almost equal.

Then either backstab or decapitate Hashirama from his shadow or release Bankai.



Sablés said:


> Shame there isn't one except melee, which is the only point where Obito would ever bring down his guard.



Bankai, he starts with it in one scenario or will use it when his blade goes clean trough Tobi, luckily he can't do damage while fully intangible and the BFR is slow and dodgeable.

Tobi has no knowledge either so he will not know how to react to Bankai, the moment they are in the same dimension he gets a character in the play and that's it.

Most of the time Obito just sends parts of his body to the Kamui dimension anyway.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Would love to see the feats that lets Shunsui do this.
> Probably be hard though, given their speed stat is of negligible difference.
> 
> 
> ...


Uhh but I just said
1. Shunsui will see where he can slice Obito, hence making his intang less useful and teleportation practically impossible.
2. In his bankai he's NOT cqc. If he decides to use it  (or the battle starts with it) then what I said earlier about sitting in air waiting for Obito to throw a shuriken sounds all the more likely.


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## Xhominid (Nov 3, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Only for that to be one-upped by "Stairway to Heaven", be the product of a rare interaction with the very Arrow that gave many Stand Users in Pre-Part VII JoJo's Bizarre Adventure their Stand Abilities, and _Eyes of Heaven_ introducing a Stand superior to even that.


Except:
1) Stairway to Heaven is nowhere near as broken as believed since all it really gives him is super speed on some level along with forcing the universe to speed up to the Big Crunch.
2) You use Eyes of Heaven and bring up The World Over Heaven except the game is non-canon to a good extent(due to multiverse theory) and even then people here don't even believe that TWOH shouldn't even beat GER and honestly...it shouldn't due to how GER's powers not only worked but fully shown and explained and using video game logic, GER still beat Stairway to Heaven in All Star Battle by being able to have Giorno move normally during it while using GER, try again.



> JoJo _thrives_ on the Superpower Lottery, and Semantic Superpowers. Gold Experience is par for the course for the setting, removing "effect" and leaving only the "cause", while a power like King Crimson removes "cause" and leaves "effect".


And so does Bleach or does The Almighty, The Visionary, X-Axis, The Miracle, Hitsugaya's "frozen" ability, etc.



Catalyst75 said:


> The Soul King was a corpse, so no life to return to it, for all intents and purposes.


Brought back Menoly so...



Catalyst75 said:


> Not really a significant limitation.


It actually is to be frank. 



Catalyst75 said:


> When did something like this ever come up?


Quincies are suddenly not a thing?



Catalyst75 said:


> Death and an ability that messes with causality are the _only two limitations_ the Rikka has. And I've seen people even brush off the latter as "she's just not powerful enough _yet". _Otherwise, Soten Kisshun (the one aspect of the Rikka that gets any focus) has no limits, on top of being the only ability in the series with an ability to "reverse things so they never happened".
> 
> In short, while the three _Causality manipulators_ among the Quincy (Yhwach, Haschwalth and Uryu) either "alter the future" to make future events occur in the present (Yhwach), or manipulate "cause and effect" to switch events that occurred to one individual/object onto another (Haschwalth and Uryu), Inoue is the _only character_ who can make an event "not be".
> 
> And if her fans had their way, she could make _people, _or objects as powerful as *Hogyoku, *"not be" just as easily.



Yeah and she has issues with that due to her self-conscious and personality. And that actually extends to alot of anime characters to stop them from being too broken too quickly.


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## Vicotex (Nov 3, 2017)

The bleach wank here is high

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Uhh but I just said
> 1. Shunsui will see where he can slice Obito, hence making his intang less useful and teleportation practically impossible.
> 2. In his bankai he's NOT cqc. If he decides to use it  (or the battle starts with it) then what I said earlier about sitting in air waiting for Obito to throw a shuriken sounds all the more likely.



I don't think even kakashi and other sensors while staring right at the dude could figure out what the mechanics of his jutsu was until he realised the dimension is connected to his own eye. 

Don't forget he's also got izanagi and genjutsu


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> I don't think even kakashi and other sensors while staring right at the dude could figure out what the mechanics of his jutsu was until he realised the dimension is connected to his own eye.
> 
> Don't forget he's also got izanagi and genjutsu


It's not that type of "sensing reiatsu" it's literally seeing it. Like what Ichigo did in Fullbring arc when his eyes were cut and he didn't even have his powers then. It's the spiritual sight.


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> It's not that type of "sensing reiatsu" it's literally seeing it. Like what Ichigo did in Fullbring arc when his eyes were cut and he didn't even have his powers then. It's the spiritual sight.



How is that any different to a sharingan?


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> How is that any different to a sharingan?


Because with those soul eyes he doesn't see the physical body.

Also I already said my mind on that type of genjutsu. It would go like this:
"what the hell is going on!?"
*katen or kyokotsu* "what do you mean?"
"Huh? It might not have been anything."


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Because with those soul eyes he doesn't see the physical body.
> 
> Also I already said my mind on that type of genjutsu. It would go like this:
> "what the hell is going on!?"
> ...



Obito put a perfect jin under genjutsu so that's doubtful

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Quincies are suddenly not a thing?



That is only in regards to the relationship between Quincy and Hollows.



Xhominid said:


> Yeah and she has issues with that due to her self-conscious and personality. And that actually extends to alot of anime characters to stop them from being too broken too quickly.



And that justifies it, _how?  _Especially when it only proves the point that Inoue does _*whatever Kubo's plot demands at the time, *_leaving fans to excuse any other time as "but her personality and self-conscious nature".  

If the author engineers an excuse like that for a character's power, then that only speaks towards bad writing.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Obito put a perfect jin under genjutsu so that's doubtful


Yes I know but that just means that no one tried to break him out. Probably because he wasn't fighting. In this fight shunsui has unsealed zans (the release wakes them up).


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Yes I know but that just means that no one tried to break him out. Probably because he wasn't fighting. In this fight shunsui has unsealed zans (the release wakes them up).



I don't know about that. 

I mean child Obito was pulling the strings of the village for decades and no one broke it or even picked up that it was happening


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## Esano (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Yes I know but that just means that no one tried to break him out. Probably because he wasn't fighting. In this fight shunsui has unsealed zans (the release wakes them up).


That makes no sense, if he was a perfect Jin, the Bjuu would have blocked him out. Being in the middle of a fight or in the middle of a war discussion should not matter.
Naruto also told Bee not to get hit with Tsukuyomi, even though he just got out of a lesser genjutsu.
So more powerful Genjutsu should be able to bypass inside partners.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> That's not necessary because Bleach mindfuck doesn't have the weakness of that kind. It's just a coincidence that the zans are separate beings that can do similar things from another series


Read: It never happened and i'm just talking out of my ass.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Too bad this situation was never explained as the fandom, other than you apparently, for a truly mysterious reason considers it a plot hole that Kishimoto tried to be slick about.

Better just accept that no one tried to break him out as no one cared. Most logical explanation from in-verse explanations.


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## LazyWaka (Nov 3, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Why would the bijuu have broken him out?



Because it's a basic perk of being a perfect jin? Killer Bee flat out states as much when he breaks Sasukes.

That said, their was ultimately no proof that Yagura was actually a perfect jin. It is noted to be just a theory in universe (and being genjutsu'd if anything is a strike against that theory.)


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Danzo said both he and bee could control bijuu

I don't remember there being any evidence to the contrary.

Remember sasuke appeared inside naruto' psyche early part two



Keishin said:


> Too bad this situation was never explained as the fandom, other than you apparently, for a truly mysterious reason considers it a plot hole that Kishimoto tried to be slick about.
> 
> Better just accept that no one tried to break him out as no one cared. Most logical explanation from in-verse explanations.



Lmao what. 

>don't care

Ao broke him out of it after decades and it killed him supposedly


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## egressmadara (Nov 3, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Because it's a basic perk of being a perfect jin? Killer Bee flat out states as much when he breaks Sasukes.
> 
> That said, their was ultimately no proof that Yagura was actually a perfect jin. It is noted to be just a theory in universe (and being genjutsu'd if anything is a strike against that theory.)


I'm pretty sure he was stated to be a perfect jin in the 4th databook and not just in the manga. damn Obito's genjutsu so powerful that even the bijuu was taken over.



or just a plothole.


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Guys that's not just one hole, the entire plotline was forgotten. Obito had a guy in genjutsu for decades for shits and giggles.


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## Kaaant (Nov 3, 2017)

Why would the fourth databook which came out after the series had ended confirm it wasn't a rumour if it were a plothole. 

It even mentions Obito on the same page


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## Keishin (Nov 3, 2017)

Can't say I give a shit about why the guys writing those databooks would write about named characters in them to fill the pages with but yeh whatever.


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## Vicotex (Nov 4, 2017)

Zanpakuto hasn't shown any resistance to mindfuck


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 4, 2017)

Another reason a normal genjutsu wouldn't work is Byakuya no selling The Fear wich works the same as them, using energy to mess with the brain directly.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Vicotex (Nov 4, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Another reason a normal genjutsu wouldn't work is Byakuya no selling The Fear wich works the same as them, using energy to mess with the brain directly.


Wrong assumption
You can't assume other characters in bleach can resist mindfuck.
Genjutsu =/=Fear and it doesn't work/function the same way as genjutsu 
Genjutsu will fuck over 96% of bleach verse because most of the characters in it don't have illusion / mind fuck resistance


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 4, 2017)

Sure but Bleach powerset just so happens to exploit genjutsu's weakneses

-The Zanpakuto working like a Bijuu
-Byakuya resisting mindfuck based on direct use of energy on his brain.
-Seeing troug energy sensing and not their eyes, Kyoraku being proficient at that too while most other characters do the same but subconsciously.

That's why the genjutsus that would work are the higher tiered ones that don't have the same weskness.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vicotex (Nov 4, 2017)

The OP said 





lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Sure but Bleach powerset just so happens to exploit genjutsu's weakneses
> 
> -The Zanpakuto working like a Bijuu
> -Byakuya resisting mindfuck based on direct use of energy on his brain.
> ...


The OP said Shunsui VS Naruto verse and not Byakuya VS Naruto verse.
BTW, Bijuu =/= Zanpakuto


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Nov 4, 2017)

Rukia also surpased the attack when she got calm and focused again.


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## Vicotex (Nov 4, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Rukia also surpased the attack when she got calm and focused again.


You're still recycling same post and yet proving nothing, by the way, show me a scan of zanpakuto freeing it's weilder from an illusion or anything close to genjutsu

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bad Wolf (Nov 4, 2017)

Well you don't really need to show resistance to genjutsu, you just need mental resistance or something like that. Rukia was doing well because of her ice, can't remember about byakuya or even what fear was doing.

And of course you can't pretend to see a zanpakuto breaking an illusion from Bleach because they don't work as genjutsu and have different weakness


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## DarkTorrent (Nov 4, 2017)

Obito's mindfuck on Yagura was so powerful that it got passed down to Yagura's descendants

Reactions: Like 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 4, 2017)

CrownedEagle said:


> If we're gonna that way, i can argue that none of naruto characters except Minato and Sarutobi can hurt Bleach characters since most of them are ghosts for starter....


.. this was stupid in 2007 and it's still stupid now.


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## Esano (Nov 4, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Why would the bijuu have broken him out? Also does it even work that way unless you go into a chakra mode? The bijuu are Sealed.


He would break him out because reality would not match.
I don't remember, was Bee in a chakra mode when he did it? Either time? I dont recall.
When the Bjuu is on good terms with the host they seem to be able to interact freely.


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## Xhominid (Nov 4, 2017)

Esano said:


> He would break him out because reality would not match.
> I don't remember, was Bee in a chakra mode when he did it? Either time? I dont recall.
> When the Bjuu is on good terms with the host they seem to be able to interact freely.



I'm not even sure how that works to be frank, Itachi got Bee even with Gyuki helping him out but otherwise Genjutsu(especially Sharingan Genjutsu) works however the hell they want.


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## Keishin (Nov 4, 2017)

All we can go on are the clear explanations of weaknesses deliberately stated because of those uchiha eyes though.


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## Esano (Nov 4, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> I'm not even sure how that works to be frank, Itachi got Bee even with Gyuki helping him out but otherwise Genjutsu(especially Sharingan Genjutsu) works however the hell they want.


Gyuuki broke Bee out. 
It was Tsukuyomi that was said he couldn't break



Keishin said:


> All we can go on are the clear explanations of weaknesses deliberately stated because of those uchiha eyes though.


Is this in reply to my post? If so I don't know what you mean


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## Xhominid (Nov 4, 2017)

Esano said:


> Gyuuki broke Bee out.
> It was Tsukuyomi that was said he couldn't break



Itachi hit him with 2 Genjutsu's? I thought it was just one? Ugh, I don't even want to go back and look because the 4th Ninja War in general pisses me off.


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## LazyWaka (Nov 4, 2017)

No he only got hit with one.


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## Esano (Nov 4, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Itachi hit him with 2 Genjutsu's? I thought it was just one? Ugh, I don't even want to go back and look because the 4th Ninja War in general pisses me off.


No.

Itachi hit him with genjutsu, it worked for a sec, and Gyuuki broke him out.
Naruto said " If you get hit by Tsukiyomi, you are fucked", but he was not hit by it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Nov 4, 2017)

im pretty sure Tsukuyomi is different cause it fucks with your perception of time, even if he breaks B out after a second Itachi can make that feel like hours


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

No one has ever broken tsukuyomi that wasn't uchiha.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 4, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> No one has ever broken tsukuyomi that wasn't uchiha.



Killer Bee.  Gyuki helped Killer Bee break out of the Tsukiyomi, since any Genjutsu requires an individual able to agitate your mental state (in Naruto, it is Chakra) to wake you up from it.

In Kyoraku's case, we can say he has Katen and Kyokotsu, especially considering how Karamatsu Shinjuu actually manifests Katen in the physical world.


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Killer Bee.  Gyuki helped Killer Bee break out of the Tsukiyomi, since any Genjutsu requires an individual able to agitate your mental state (in Naruto, it is Chakra) to wake you up from it.
> 
> In Kyoraku's case, we can say he has Katen and Kyokotsu, especially considering how Karamatsu Shinjuu actually manifests Katen in the physical world.



Lmao

No he didn't 

And also, there's genjutsu you can't break out of by being spooked


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 4, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> Lmao
> 
> No he didn't
> 
> And also, there's genjutsu you can't break out of by being spooked




Mangekyo Sharingan is activated, and Sasuke is clutching his eyes from the strain of casting that Genjutsu on Killer Bee.

How is that not Tsukiyomi, again?


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Mangekyo Sharingan is activated, and Sasuke is clutching his eyes from the strain of casting that Genjutsu on Killer Bee.
> 
> How is that not Tsukiyomi, again?



where's the statement that says it is?

Danzo already told sasuke his genjutsu ain't shit


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 4, 2017)

Since when does Sauce posses Tsukuyomi ?


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## Jackalinthebox (Nov 4, 2017)

Sasuke's Genjutsu was still weak sauce when he fought Killer B

Anyway, we already have confirmation Tsukuyomi would fuck over both B & Gyuki


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

Not comparable


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 4, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Since when does Sauce posses Tsukuyomi ?



I had assumed Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi were "default" Mangekyo powers like Susanoo, with Itachi being the one whose Mangekyo had the strongest Tsukiyomi, Sasuke having the best control over Amaterasu.  My other assumption was that Obito and Shisui's Mangekyo were unique for their individual abilities.

But I guess I was mistaken, leaving Tsukiyomi exclusive to Itachi.


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

He does have tsukuyomi

It's just he's not very good at it


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 4, 2017)

Sasuke doesen't have Tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi is an ability exclusive to Itachi. Where do you people get this from ? When has Sasuke ever used Tsukuyomi ?


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## Kaaant (Nov 4, 2017)

He's literally got itachi's eyes to be fair

Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu were prerequisites to susanoo at one stage

Madara probably has it too

Well he used IT so yea


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 4, 2017)

Kaaant said:


> He's literally got itachi's eyes to be fair


So ? It isn't stated anywhere that you automatically get all of your brother's abillities once you transplant his eyes.


Kaaant said:


> Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu were prerequisites to susanoo at one stage


Not really...and even if that were true, it was specific to Itachi. Kakashi, Madara and Indra didn't posses either and still got Susanoo.


Kaaant said:


> Madara probably has it too


Baseless claim, Madara only used Susanoo with MS and just normal genjutsu with Sharingan.


Kaaant said:


> Well he used IT so yea


IT is a Kekkei Mora type genjutsu and it requires either  the Rinne-Sharingan or both Rinnegan and Sharingan to be cast . For all intense and purposes IT is an entirely different genjutsu from the normal Tsukuyomi, not to mention the difference in class.
Obito was about to use it  ,and he never had anything to do with normal Tsukuyomi. Kaguya can also use IT and she doesen't even have a MS or a EMS...so there's really no conection between the two.


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## LazyWaka (Nov 4, 2017)

Sasukes ms abilities are amaterasu and enton (each eye only has 1 ability + susano'o with both). He's only ever used MS to buff his sharingan genjutsu.


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## Esano (Nov 5, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> im pretty sure Tsukuyomi is different cause it fucks with your perception of time, even if he breaks B out after a second Itachi can make that feel like hours


He can do this to an insane extent as well.
It can dilute time by a factor of 1000000000x, can make you feel an entire lifetime in one second.


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## EGSage (Nov 5, 2017)

He stops at Itachi..........










Edo Itachi. Can't believe people forgot Edo was a thing.


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## Catalyst75 (Nov 5, 2017)

Esano said:


> He can do this to an insane extent as well.
> It can dilute time by a factor of 1000000000x, can make you feel an entire lifetime in one second.



Isn't that what he did to his girlfriend?


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## Keishin (Nov 5, 2017)

Sounds like Mayuri's drugs that turn 1 second into a century.


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## Vicotex (Nov 5, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Isn't that what he did to his girlfriend?


Does he have a girlfriend?


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## Kaaant (Nov 5, 2017)

He did. 

I don't remember his genjutsu being that powerful, but remember he tortured Kakashi for days and was going easy on the guy


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## Hamaru (Nov 5, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Sasuke's Genjutsu was still weak sauce when he fought Killer B
> 
> Anyway, we already have confirmation Tsukuyomi would fuck over both B & Gyuki




Naruto has no idea what Bee's tag-team abilities with Hachibi can and can't withstand. Bee already had experience against both attacks (at the very least MS genjutsu and Amatsu)


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 5, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> Naruto has no idea what Bee's tag-team abilities with Hachibi can and can't withstand


Except he does since he is basically the same thing as Bee. He is also the host of a stronger Jin and has experience against Tsukuyomi while Bee doesen't.
...We also see how Jins can get mindfucked by normal genjutsu so Tsukuyomi would be overkill even for them.


Hamaru said:


> Bee already had experience against both attacks (at the very least MS genjutsu and Amatsu)


MS genjutsu < Tsukuyomi and Amatersu has no connection with Genjutsu .
Stop being obtuse.


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## Hamaru (Nov 5, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> *Except he does since he is basically the same thing as Bee.* He is also the host of a stronger Jin and has experience against Tsukuyomi while Bee doesen't.
> ...We also see how Jins can get mindfucked by normal genjutsu so Tsukuyomi would be overkill even for them.
> 
> MS genjutsu < Tsukuyomi and Amatersu has no connection with Genjutsu .
> Stop being obtuse.



No, he doesn't. Bee and Hachibi had perfected communication and team-work for years, so even though they don't have as much raw power as Naruto+Kyuubi, they were clearly the smarter tag-team and had a different set of abilities (V1, V2, partial bijuu mode, Bijuu feint, and breaking out of genjutsu). Naruto and Bee are only the same in the sense of being a Bijuu host, and that's where their similarity ends. 

Obviously Tsukuyomi is stronger than MS genjutsu, I wasn't arguing against THAT fact. If you think I was, then you need to work on your comprehension abilities. My comment was about Naruto NOT knowing what Bee's limitations are. Your response implied that they are the same, even though Bee has shown the ability to break out of genjutsu and Chiyo stated that one of the ways to break out of genjutsu is through a partnership method. Naruto, on the other hand (the one you said is the same  ass Bee) was placed under genjutsu from Itachi pointing his finger at him and couldn't break out without outside help. In fact, we NEVER seen him break out of genjutsu on his own. 

As for Ama not having a connection with genjutsu, once again, that is obvious, and it should have been obvious that I wasn't connecting the two. I was stated that Naruto has no idea what Bee's limitations are as he named two attacks that Bee may very well be able to deal with. Naruto was projecting HIS limitations on Bee, which is my overall point. If you still think that I'm connecting Ama with genjutsu in some way, shape, or form, then you're an idiot.


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## Kaaant (Nov 5, 2017)

Link removed

Don't forget this happened.

So really, the perfect Jin breaking each other out is really a genjutsu resistance feat on gyuki's part


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 5, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> No, he doesn't. Bee and Hachibi had perfected communication and team-work for years, so even though they don't have as much raw power as Naruto+Kyuubi, they were clearly the smarter tag-team and had a different set of abilities (V1, V2, partial bijuu mode, Bijuu feint, and breaking out of genjutsu). Naruto and Bee are only the same in the sense of being a Bijuu host, and that's where their similarity ends


Irrelevant


Hamaru said:


> Obviously Tsukuyomi is stronger than MS genjutsu, I wasn't arguing against THAT fact. If you think I was, then you need to work on your comprehension abilities


Uh-huh.


Hamaru said:


> My comment was about Naruto NOT knowing what Bee's limitations are


That's also irrelevant since Bee and Hachibi never showed any resistance to shit like Tsukuyomi. 


Hamaru said:


> Your response implied that they are the same


They are the fucking same . They are both Jins.


Hamaru said:


> even though Bee has shown the ability to break out of genjutsu and Chiyo stated that one of the ways to break out of genjutsu is through a partnership method


Normal genjutsu, not Tsukuyomi.


Hamaru said:


> Naruto, on the other hand (the one you said is the same ass Bee)


He is . Both are Jins.


Hamaru said:


> was placed under genjutsu from Itachi pointing his finger at him and couldn't break out without outside help. In fact, we NEVER seen him break out of genjutsu on his own


And ?


Hamaru said:


> As for Ama not having a connection with genjutsu, once again


Then you shouldn't have brought it up.


Hamaru said:


> If you still think that I'm connecting Ama with genjutsu in some way, shape, or form, then you're an idiot.


Cute.. not my fault you are spouting useless shit that doesen't have anythind to do with anything.
Again stop being obtuse.
Also Tsukuyomi will work on Bee and Hachibi unless you prove otherwise.


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## Hamaru (Nov 5, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Irrelevant
> 
> Uh-huh.
> 
> ...




This post shows that you have absolutely no real point. You jumped on my comment with a half-assed, not well thought out response and now you're trying to save face.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 5, 2017)

Also stop writing fucking novels in here, you should have the ability to summarize by now.


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 5, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> This post shows that you have absolutely no real point. You jumped on my comment with a half-assed, not well thought out response and now you're trying to save face


The projection is strong with this one.


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## Hamaru (Nov 5, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> The projection is strong with this one.



Says the one who's only defense is "They're the same because they're both jins" which hold absolutely no weight


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## TYPE-Rey (Nov 5, 2017)

Hamaru said:


> Says the one who's only defense is "They're the same because they're both jins" which hold absolutely no weight


Your whole novel held no point my man or whatever  are, so you're hardly in any position to judge that.
Good luck going somehwere with those  "arguments". Don't worry though, i'll be here to laugh at you.


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## LazyWaka (Nov 5, 2017)

Locking before this gets out of hand.


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