# Raikage vs. Itachi (healthy)



## Ryuzaki (Nov 23, 2009)

*Distance:* 150 meters
*Location:* VotE
*State of Mind:* Bloodlusted
*Restrictions:* None
*Stipulations:* Itachi is healthy (3.5 Stamina)
*Knowledge:* Raikage has the same amount of knowledge in regards to the MS. And Itachi knows of Raikage via reputation and general knowledge (e.g. Nin-Tai Fighter).

*Who wins?*​


----------



## Big Mom (Nov 23, 2009)

I am pretty sure there are many threads quiet like this. Plus, you can discuss it at the Akatsuki vs Kages thread.


----------



## Black Sabbath II (Nov 23, 2009)

Raikage bloodlusted? He wins with mid difficulty.

Sharingan still can't follow him and Genjutsu won't work due to the speed of his synapses. Raikage would go to V2 early on and then Itachi just has no chance unless he uses Susano'o. But that would be instant death for him as all Raikage would need to do is keep his distance and wait for him to keel over. Or just dodge all his attacks. V2 Raikage is nearly impossible to hit unless you have an attack that happens to be faster than Amaterasu.


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 23, 2009)

Itachi blocked Lightning with Susano. The Raikage isn't blitzing him. From there, trickery should be enough. If not, then the mere fact that the Raikage has the urge to charge Susano and Itachi's happens to have a sword that instantly seals whatever it touches in to an eternal Genjutsu. I believe Itachi is more then smart enough to land an Amatarasu, however, and take this without a scratch thanks to the mirror of Yata.


----------



## Watermelon Lover (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm begginning to wonder the strain a constant shroud of raiton would put on the body. I know in the manga the Raikage doesn't seem at all exhausted but it seems only logical that it would eventually become a rather strenuous jutsu to keep up.

I'll give it to the Raikage, for now. If Sasuke > Itachi and Raikage > Sasuke, common sense tells us Raikage > Itachi. Granted Itachi is healthy which is interesting, but I'm fairly certain the speed at which the Raikage moves is going to stop anything from hitting him aside from maybe either finger genjutsu or tsukiyomi.

There's no evidence to suggest that faster synaptic reflexes lessens genjutsu. In fact I would assume it would hasten their activation.


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 23, 2009)

Sasuke is no way, shape, or form > Itachi


----------



## Watermelon Lover (Nov 23, 2009)

Who killed Itachi, just for clarification?


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 23, 2009)

After purposefully pushing Sasuke to exhaustion so that he could once again panel the legendary Sanin possessing him that had killed the God of Shinobi while merely toying with him and successfully defeated the death itself through Ninjutsu while even warding off the Death God. Then, he implanted a technique inside his head that nearly killed the final villain of the manga so that he could purposefully die from chakra depletion so that Sasuke could unlock his Mangyekou and take his eyes to unlock the Eternal Mangyekou to ultimately defeat Madara. He did all this while terminally ill and very, very blind. 

Itachi died undefeated.


----------



## Dexion (Nov 23, 2009)

Let me correct you, Sasuke was in no way shape or form > than Itachi without Mangyekou Sharingan


----------



## Watermelon Lover (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong. Well-worded response.


----------



## Goobtachi (Nov 24, 2009)

Bloodlusted Itachi is something even Kishi was afraid of showing us ,he wins this one with a tsukiyomi then proceeds to cut Raikage's legs


----------



## Dark Saint (Nov 24, 2009)

Considering Itachi was not only holding back, but practically blind when fighting Sasuke we will never know how powerful he truly was. I would also like to add the fact that Kisame obeyed him out of inferiority and even Madara hid from him.

Assuming Sasuke STILL hasn't reached his level which is likely, Itachi would take this since he's pretty much just a much stronger version of him.


----------



## Angoobo (Nov 24, 2009)

I think that they are even. Eventhough i can't imagine a healthy Itachi(unless he doesn't have Ms,thus he's screwed in that fight),the match ends in  a draw.


----------



## armansuper (Nov 24, 2009)

LOL what? Itachi bloodlusted and healthy?Susanoo lulz @ raikage       raikage strikes in raiton armor when the match begins as he is already hot headed.Itachi lolz with impenetrable Yata Mirror and seals with Totsuka


----------



## Ra (Nov 24, 2009)

Why bother saying "healthy Itachi?"

We do not know how powerful Itachi was when he was healthy or trying.


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Nov 24, 2009)

So, we obviously assume that he wasn't trying and that he was in terrible health which affected his fighting, amirite?


----------



## ? (Nov 24, 2009)

itachi takes it.

raikage will go for the usual speed blitz. itachi has feats to prove he can summon susanoo faster than lightning strikes. and it's pretty much canon that when raikage is bloodlusted he blindly attacks susanoo, which will get him sealed with sword of totsuka.


----------



## the box (Nov 24, 2009)

godtachi said:


> Bloodlusted Itachi is something even Kishi was afraid of showing us ,he wins this one with a tsukiyomi then proceeds to cut Raikage's legs



genjutsu wont do anything to riakage when he is moving at those speeds of his sont you read the manga.

riakage would kick his head off his shoulders 

wins with middifficulty


----------



## mastergimmy (Nov 24, 2009)

Im more on itachi's side due to susanoo and raikage wont break through when theres also yata's mirror. Unless itachi can actually hit raikage despite his inhuman speed then he wood win, if he cant susanoo runs out and he loses.


----------



## timmysblood (Nov 24, 2009)

as much as I hate uchiha I can't see a healthy itachi losing to such simple tactics as raikages. Sasuke is dumb ass and thats why he lost,  itachi is probaly one of smartest people in manga  on par with shikimaru inteligence.


----------



## Federer (Nov 24, 2009)

Watermelon Lover said:


> I'll give it to the Raikage, for now. *If Sasuke > Itachi and Raikage > Sasuke, common sense tells us Raikage > Itachi.* Granted Itachi is healthy which is interesting, but I'm fairly certain the speed at which the Raikage moves is going to stop anything from hitting him aside from maybe either finger genjutsu or tsukiyomi.



Not correct. Raikage versus Sasuke was pretty much a tie, one lost his arm, the other one held his hope in his defense. Raikage could have died if he made contact with Sasuke, when he used his flying legdrop, Amaterasu could have spread to his entire body. Sasuke would have died, too, because of the impact. Gaara pretty much said it. 

Sasuke never was > Itachi. 



> Who killed Itachi, just for clarification?



Not who, but what. It was AIDS. 

Sasuke was not enough, Orochimaru was not enough, CS was not enough, AIDS was not enough, Itachi even had to restrict himself. 

As for this match-up, I'm gonna say Itachi. It could go either way, since Raikage is calm and all, but can he keep dodging the Sword of Totsuka?


----------



## Goobtachi (Nov 24, 2009)

the box said:


> genjutsu wont do anything to riakage when he is moving at those speeds of his sont you read the manga.
> 
> riakage would kick his head off his shoulders
> 
> wins with middifficulty



Just one question?who is Riakage? and where was it stated in the manga that someone who wasn't an uchiha could evade Tsukiyomi


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Nov 24, 2009)

Killer Bee said Genjutsu can't affect him, due to having a Bijuu inside. I'm pretty certain this means Tsukuyomi too. 

Though I can't say the same for Raikage. But I don't think he'd get caught into Tskuyomi very early on, since staring into a Uchiha's eyes is bad. Most Shinobi know this, and this should apply more to him since he's a Kage.


----------



## Vergil642 (Nov 24, 2009)

Itachi may win it at the start with Genjutsu, disproving Shi's claim that Raikage's unable to be Genjutsu'd in his shroud. If not, he'll stay the fuck away from Taijutsu and probably one shot with Tsukuyomi. Raikage thinks he's immune to Genjutsu, so won't avoid eye contact. Furthermore, if Raikage's going to hit Itachi and Itachi can't stop him, Itachi pulls Susanoo out and turns effectively invincible. Raikage's fists don't have Kirin's destructive power, they aren't smashing through Itachi's Susanoo.

As Raikage only just escaped the sight of someone slower than Itachi (and at top speed) I don't see why he can escape Itachi's sight either, meaning Amaterasu's still entirely viable here.

Itachi wins with high difficulty using MS 8/10. Who knows, maybe Raikage will hit him before he pulls Susanoo out.


----------



## Dexion (Nov 24, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> Itachi may win it at the start with Genjutsu, disproving Shi's claim that Raikage's unable to be Genjutsu'd in his shroud. If not, he'll stay the fuck away from Taijutsu and probably one shot with Tsukuyomi. Raikage thinks he's immune to Genjutsu, so won't avoid eye contact. Furthermore, if Raikage's going to hit Itachi and Itachi can't stop him, Itachi pulls Susanoo out and turns effectively invincible. Raikage's fists don't have Kirin's destructive power, they aren't smashing through Itachi's Susanoo.
> 
> As Raikage only just escaped the sight of someone slower than Itachi (and at top speed) I don't see why he can escape Itachi's sight either, meaning Amaterasu's still entirely viable here.
> 
> Itachi wins with high difficulty using MS 8/10. Who knows, maybe Raikage will hit him before he pulls Susanoo out.



I think Itachi would win with Susanoo if he can catch Raikage with SOT. But to say he would catch Raikage with Amaterasu is folly, Sasuke's infinite MS > Itachi's MS.


----------



## Bloo (Nov 24, 2009)

I give this to itachi, Raikage would be calm and not as impatient as when he fought sasuke. Because of this he will probably look into itachis eyes and be caught in tsukuyomi. And itachi could show him images of his brother dying constantly for 72 hours. That would destroy him hands down. Itachi wins with mid difficulty.


----------



## Turrin (Nov 25, 2009)

Being Bloodlust actually hurts Raikage in my opinion because it makes him do stupid shit as seen in the Sasuke fight and during the Kage meeting. I think Itachi could trick a bloodlust Raikage and hit him with the Totsuka Sword.


----------



## Agony (Nov 25, 2009)

itachi wins with tsukuyomi.


----------



## KisameH (Dec 2, 2009)

if the raikage can't kill sasuke without losing a limb, he's no mach for itachi.


----------



## Bloo (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm going to support my original post even more, if we've never seen itachi fight bloodlusted (or at full strength) while he was sick. I'm sure he'd be much deadlier if he wasn't sick.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Dec 5, 2009)

Illusory said:


> Sasuke is no way, shape, or form > Itachi



Absolutely incorrect.

Sasuke is superior to Itachi in the ability to use Amaterasu. In the sense he could use Enton as a whole new element, unlike Itachi. Plus, his overall Genjutsu ability may be higher, he defeated his Tsukuyomi with his base Sharingan. And to say he was holding back there is foolish, Zetsu stated he was indeed superior to his brother in this aspect. 

I give this battle to Itachi, either way. He is a lot more intelligent and tactical than Sasuke was during the Kage Summit battle, using jutsu at the wrong times, such as using Susanoo against Mizukage when Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi could have sufficed, rushing in and allowing a Jounin (Darui) trap and attack him, and nearly being beaten down by Raikage very early in the fight alongside his man. Itachi would not do such things.

Plus, his full Susanoo mastery, Kage Bunshin and Karasu Bunshin seriously help here. Had Raikage Shi and Darui by his side, he'd do better, but so far, I give the win to Itachi. His reflexes and speed kept up with even CS2 Sasuke. He is far more analytical and intelligent a foe, and can resort to Totsuka Sword if necessary to seal him away.

Even then, Itachi wins with high difficulty. Raikage's Taijutsu and physical power, as well as absurd Stamina and Speed are essentially the ultimate Sharingan counter, but in his bloodlusted condition, he can be defeated more easily, although the power of each technique also rises with his fury and rashness. 

Anyway, again, as soon as Susanoo comes out, he'll try to Guillotine Drop it only to be hit by Totsuka and sealed in another dimension.


----------



## Puppeteer (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm confused as to why anyone wouldn't give this to Itachi. From both the databook and manga it is implied that Itachi is above his younger brother in Taijutsu knowledge and proficiency and, considering that Sasuke can  the Raikage at close range, I don't see why  of all people wouldn't. What's even more ludicrous is that this is a _healthy Itachi_. With Sasuke's only error being hotheaded and  in, Itachi is almost precisely the  If we are assuming that  doesn't work than Itachi should be more than capable of taking this with a  combined with an  against the brash Raikage. If _shit hits the fan_ Itachi always has a  that the Raikage would, in all likeliness, , only to be stopped by the _Mirror of Yata_, and consequently be sealed by the _Sword of Totsuka_. Itachi should take this with some of his most powerful techniques and devastatingly fast trickery.


----------



## SharinganSkill (Dec 5, 2009)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Killer Bee said Genjutsu can't affect him, due to having a Bijuu inside. I'm pretty certain this means Tsukuyomi too.



Nah, that´s not true. Sasuke used genjutsu on Bee. So he´s nowhere close being genjutsu immune (like Sasori for example). The only thing is that octopus gave him his chakra to break him free from genjutsu. But Tsukuyomi is a different story. It will do magor "damage" in a blink of an eye. So the only question is how fast can kiribi notice Bee was trapped in genjutsu and give him chakra. Not fast enough, I guess.

And now to Raikage x Itachi. First of all I wanna say I consider Raikage being extremly strong and I´m not an Itachi tard. But in my opinion this is one of the worst match-ups for Raikage. If Itachi is fast enough to defend against lightning with Susanoo, he cant be speed blitzed like the rest of Naruto world characters, cause he will be able to activate Susanoo in time. Bloodlusted Raikage will attack Susanoo again and again, sooner or later he will be stabbed.



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Plus, his overall Genjutsu ability may be higher, he defeated his Tsukuyomi with his base Sharingan



Jesus man. Itachi cancelled Tsukuyomi himself.


----------



## Goobtachi (Dec 5, 2009)

Itachi wins with Tsukiyomi,Raikage is not an uchiha


----------



## Soul (Dec 5, 2009)

Itachi should win with ease in this scenario.

The Raikage will try to blitz; while he could be able to do it in another scenario, an Itachi bloodlusted will use Susano'o if needed, and when he reacts to the Raikage's blitz he should use it {since he has basic knowledge of what the Raikage can do}.

This will end fast.



Watermelon Lover said:


> Who killed Itachi, just for clarification?



Susano'o 



KumogakureRaikage said:


> Raikage would go to V2 early on and then *Itachi just has no chance unless he uses Susano'o*.



Which he will use.



> But that would be instant death for him as all Raikage would need to do is keep his distance and wait for him to keel over.



Why would the Raikage keep his distance?
The last time he tried to pierce Sasuke's Susano'o...



> Or just dodge all his attacks.



Dodge the sword?
Sure, he is fast, but he should be pierced when he tries to kill Itachi.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Dec 5, 2009)

Itachi wins

Tsukiyomi - Is a 50/50 chance of it working or even killing raikage if it does work. 
Ametersua - No effect
Susannoo - Itachi is obviously superior to Sasuke


----------



## Phoenix Zoro (Dec 5, 2009)

from what we saw of itachi in the manga, he was probably superior to raikage whilst sick. I would say he was stronger than jiraiya from what we saw of him, his susanoo was genuinely indestructible. Healthy itachi would probably rank somewhere around minato level, more than a match for E.


----------



## Rampage (Dec 5, 2009)

Itachi takes this with ease

Raikage is BL and tries to speedblitz Itachi, Itachi unleashed Susanoo and its game over


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 5, 2009)

KumogakureRaikage said:


> ...Raikage would go to V2 early on and then Itachi just has no chance unless he uses Susano'o. But that would be instant death for him as all Raikage would need to do is keep his distance and wait for him to keel over.



Wait for him to keel over? Susano'o, as far as we know, had little, if anything, to do with his death.



Illusory said:


> After purposefully pushing Sasuke to exhaustion so that he could once again panel the legendary Sanin possessing him that had killed the God of Shinobi while merely toying with him and successfully defeated the death itself through Ninjutsu while even warding off the Death God. Then, he implanted a technique inside his head that nearly killed the final villain of the manga so that he could purposefully die from chakra depletion so that Sasuke could unlock his Mangyekou and take his eyes to unlock the Eternal Mangyekou to ultimately defeat Madara. He did all this while terminally ill and very, very blind.
> 
> Itachi died undefeated.



THIS.



Dracule Mihawk said:


> So, we obviously assume that he wasn't trying and that he was in terrible health which affected his fighting, amirite?



Yes, because:

1) He may have been 'trying', but he wasn't bloodlusted against Sasuke. Killing him was exactly what he DIDN'T want to do.

2) Zetsu was shocked at the way he started coughing blood and collapsed, and he said something along the lines of "Itachi should have been able to take that". Madara told Sasuke later that Itachi had been dying and was forcing himself to stay alive with medicine and willpower so that he could fight Sasuke. Seeing as he was able to wipe out his entire clan at 13 in a single night when he was presumably healthy, it's clear that his health went on a steady decline after that considering how difficult it became for him to fight towards the end.

Blood-lusted, healthy Itachi could only be even stronger than he was at 13, and he was an insanely formidable force back then. 



Juracule Mihawk said:


> Not who, but what. It was AIDS.



Who gave it to him? 



ANYWAY, Itachi. Hands down. Itachi blind and dying of a terminal illness was easily one of the strongest characters in the series (he took out Oro in about 2 seconds, utterly raped Kakashi, and could have killed Sasuke if he'd wanted to). If he can do that much damage in that condition, he'd easily beat anybody at the height of his strength.


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Dec 5, 2009)

There's some Itachi hype but I think Sasuke's Susanoo is probably better than Itachi's. 

Sasuke's newfound power has been the darkness he has embraced. It fuels him and obviously powers and unlocks his techniques, it has enabled him to use them with a greater amount of proficiency. We know Sasuke is evil like Madara, whereas Itachi isn't like that. His Susanoo is simply more complete, more like it's supposed to be.
So if Raikage can break through Sasuke's, then he can break through Itachi's as well. 

Just because Sasuke from more than 100 chapters ago couldn't, doesn't mean anyone else can't, especially one of the strongest hitting characters in the series.

Also, there's nothing wrong with Sasuke's eyesight (yet) so if Raikage can outspeed that, it stands to reason he can also do that to Itachi, unless he has naturally vastly superior vision, which he doesn't.

I give this to Raikage since Itachi doesn't know Raikage can speedblitz to that degree, he only has general knowledge and reputation to go by. Raikage being able to move faster than Sharingan eyesight is not general knowledge. 75% chance the match ends right there and then, but if the match progresses beyond that, Itachi wins.


----------



## Ecydysis (Dec 5, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> There's some Itachi hype but I think Sasuke's Susanoo is probably better than Itachi's.



This _directly contradicts the manga and Sasuke's own words._


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Dec 5, 2009)

Sasuke's own words < what actually happened.

Amount of darkness is the effectiveness of Susanoo. Itachi isn't as evil as Sasuke is right now. Can you deny that?


----------



## Soul (Dec 5, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> There's some Itachi hype but I think Sasuke's Susanoo is probably better than Itachi's.



Sasuke's Susano'o may be better than Itachi's, but Sasuke lacks the Totsuka's Sword and the Yata's Mirror.

Those legendary items give itachi's Susano'o the edge.



> So if Raikage can break through Sasuke's, then he can break through Itachi's as well.



False.



> Also, there's nothing wrong with Sasuke's eyesight (yet) so if Raikage can outspeed that, it stands to reason he can also do that to Itachi, unless he has naturally vastly superior vision, which he doesn't.



Itachi has vastly superior _reflexes_. That will give him the ability to react to the Raikage.



Kind of a big deal said:


> Amount of darkness is the effectiveness of Susanoo.



Can you prove this?


----------



## Ecydysis (Dec 5, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Sasuke's own words < *what actually happened.*



If that's the case then  < ?


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 6, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Also, there's nothing wrong with Sasuke's eyesight (yet) so if Raikage can outspeed that, it stands to reason he can also do that to Itachi, unless he has naturally vastly superior vision, which he doesn't.



Nope. Sasuke's eyesight has started to fail him. I can't recall the chapter (it was soon after he fought Itachi), but at one point his eyesight went blurry and he almost fell over.


----------



## Soul (Dec 6, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> _*Also, there's nothing wrong with Sasuke's eyesight (yet)*_ so if Raikage can outspeed that, it stands to reason he can also do that to Itachi, unless he has naturally vastly superior vision, which he doesn't.


PikaCheeka is right.

Scans:


----------



## Goobtachi (Dec 6, 2009)

No,outspeeding someone has to do with the eyesight+REFLEXES(itachi's are superior to sasuke's).So there is no reason to assume that Raikage outspeeds itachi.Plus,the battle ends quickly with genjutsu(especially Tsukiyomi)


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Dec 6, 2009)

His eyesight was blurry for that instance, and then it was better again. It's not still blurry right now.


----------



## Dog of War (Dec 6, 2009)

This match is a perfect example of why healthy Itachi is such a terrible character to use in Battledome, because (guess what!) healthy Itachi isn't a real character. We have no idea what he is or is not capable of, and if we are to go by manga speculation, then we should take into account all this speculation about Sasuke being better than him.

Databook character statements should be disregarded for the most part too since it makes so many ludicrous statements, it's canon credibility is non-existent.


----------



## Griever (Dec 6, 2009)

I'd have to say Raikage would win .

Itachi doesn't have Enton which made it so Sasuke gained to upper hand (flameing susanno) Raikage however is good enough that he could dodge Totsuka Seeing as how he has some massive speed behind him.

So Raikage would be able to attack Itachi and Susanno untill Itachi droped for susanno's strain.. Because y'know, Raikage doesn't stop once he get's started.

All of Itachi's other Jutsu Raikage could dodge pretty easily. Itachi's Katon jutsu are nothing in the face of Raikages speed.
Raiakge has already shown the ability to dodge amaterasu, so...

I'll leave Genjutsu out of it, since we have never seen any genjutsu place on Raikage... so i don't know.

So yeah, i think Raikage would win.


----------



## ? (Dec 6, 2009)

godtachi said:


> No,outspeeding someone has to do with the eyesight+REFLEXES(itachi's are superior to sasuke's).So there is no reason to assume that Raikage outspeeds itachi.Plus,the battle ends quickly with genjutsu(especially Tsukiyomi)


yes itachi wins, but not by genjutsu. manga fact that raikage is immune to genjutsu.


----------



## jdbzkh (Dec 6, 2009)

Susano'o would trump Raikage so Itachi wins.


----------



## Soul (Dec 6, 2009)

Kind of a big deal said:


> His eyesight was blurry for that instance, and then it was better again. It's not still blurry right now.



Proof?
I don't think that this is true.


----------



## Dexion (Dec 6, 2009)

TheYellowFlash10 said:


> Proof?
> I don't think that this is true.



Sasuke has the eternal Mangyekou Sharingan, he eyesight is not supposed to be losing light. Until there's concrete proof I'm not going to believe that.


----------



## Soul (Dec 6, 2009)

Dexion said:


> Sasuke has the eternal Mangyekou Sharingan



Sasuke doesn't has the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.


----------



## Ejenku (Dec 6, 2009)

Dexion said:


> Sasuke has the eternal Mangyekou Sharingan, he eyesight is not supposed to be losing light. Until there's concrete proof I'm not going to believe that.



No he doesn't. He didn't take Itachi eyes yet so he still has his own M Sharingan. Theres a reason that Madara asked Sasuke if he was going to take Itachi eyes and he said no. He wanted to do things his own way.


----------



## Dexion (Dec 6, 2009)

oh wait, yep im wrong... I misread.


----------



## 00MinatoNamikaze00 (Dec 7, 2009)

Raikage wins via speedblitz. Sussano lol the fuck is it going to do? It's about as fast as me and Raikages not gonna let that thing touch him. So well done Itachi for using it your gonna be stood there like a moron slowly dieing. Itachi's only hope is Tsukuyomi but he won't even have time to activate his sharingan since Raikage is bloodlust and will decapitate the poor guy on the word go.


----------



## Green Poncho (Dec 7, 2009)

Itachi (Healthy) wins with Enhanced Susanoo. Even before it's partially formed it can stop a hill busting attack, he can also form it in a split second. fully formed Raikage won't be able to touch Itachi and thanks to that magic sword of his he only needs one-hit to defeat Raikage.

Remember the magic sword and shield Itachi has for Susanoo?


----------



## SharinganSkill (Dec 7, 2009)

00MinatoNamikaze00 said:


> Raikage wins via speedblitz. Sussano lol the fuck is it going to do? It's about as fast as me and Raikages not gonna let that thing touch him. So well done Itachi for using it your gonna be stood there like a moron slowly dieing. Itachi's only hope is Tsukuyomi but he won't even have time to activate his sharingan since Raikage is bloodlust and will decapitate the poor guy on the word go.




This really made me laugh xD So:

- Sussano lol the fuck is it going to do? ... It will make Raikage look like a retard trying to hit him again and again 
- So well done Itachi for using it your gonna be stood there like a moron slowly dieing. ...  Nobody will be stood or dying. The name of this topic is Raikage vs. Itachi (healthy) - do you know what that last word mean? 
-  he won't even have time to activate his sharingan since Raikage is bloodlust and will decapitate the poor guy on the word go ... Actually Itachi has his sharingan activated 24/7


----------



## BloodofDante (Apr 19, 2010)

Dark Saint said:


> Considering Itachi was not only holding back, but practically blind when fighting Sasuke we will never know how powerful he truly was. I would also like to add the fact that Kisame obeyed him out of inferiority and even Madara hid from him.
> 
> Assuming Sasuke STILL hasn't reached his level which is likely, Itachi would take this since he's pretty much just a much stronger version of him.





kisame obeyed him because he thought of him as a friend
and from what i've seen from kisame im pretty sure he could kill itachi 
he beat killer bee badly.

itachi admitted that he could not defeat Madara without an EMS

Raikage looked sasuke in the eye the said "your sharingan wont work on me"
which leads me to think that sasuke tried a genjutsu and it didnt work.

so im thinking itachi would be in for one hell of a fight one where his genjutus might prove useless or less effective than usual. his advisary would have speed and strength to their advantage , speed being a major factor in any fight and the raikage has been shown to have speed that allows him to avoid the unavoidable amaterasu and too fast for the sharingan to keep up with.


----------



## Respite (Apr 19, 2010)

BloodofDante said:


> kisame obeyed him because he thought of him as a friend
> and from what i've seen from kisame im pretty sure he could kill itachi
> he beat killer bee badly.
> 
> ...



You Do read the manga Right?

Itachi Put Up Suasnoo As Fast as a Lightning Strike.
Lightning Speed>E's Speed

E Tries to blitz
Itachi Puts Up Suasnoo

Itachi Seals him with sword
Itachi wins


----------



## biar (Apr 19, 2010)

"Healthy Itachi" is as abstract as "Sarutobi Prime"

Going with feats alone Raikage should take this since Raikage can just avoid all of the MS techniques


----------



## Marsala (Apr 19, 2010)

Raikage would get caught in regular genjutsu and then be an easy target for the Mangekyou Sharingan.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Hard to do if Itachi can't make contact


----------



## Marsala (Apr 20, 2010)

Itachi doesn't need to make eye contact to cast his regular genjutsu. Looking at any part of his body is dangerous. He can also let loose crows from under his cloak that will put the target under genjutsu if he sees their eyes.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

No, you have to see his finger and he needs to focus the chakra. If he can't keep up with you, there won't be a genjutsu cast


----------



## Marsala (Apr 20, 2010)

Itachi is clever enough to catch Raikage with clones or crows, or clones that turn into crows. Sooner or later (probably sooner), Raikage will catch sight of the Sharingan.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

If it didn't work with Sasuke, who spams MS worse than his brother and does use paralyzing Genjutsu, then why would it work for Itachi?


----------



## Tengu (Apr 20, 2010)

Itachi puts the Raikage in a genjutsu and then Amaterasu to the face.


----------



## Marsala (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> If it didn't work with Sasuke, who spams MS worse than his brother and does use paralyzing Genjutsu, then why would it work for Itachi?



Sasuke spams MS but rarely uses the genjutsu. He didn't even try to put Raikage, Gaara, Mifune, Mizukage or Tsuchikage under genjutsu despite making eye contact with all of them. Sasuke just doesn't like using genjutsu as much as his brother.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 20, 2010)

Selim said:


> Sasuke is no way, shape, or form > Itachi



This, I have to seriously disagree with. Sasuke currently has been touted to be Naruto's equal, Naruto, the same ninja who fought on even footing with Pain and won - Pain, a shinobi way beyond Itachi's level of power. 

Although I agree that the Kage Summit Sasuke was not even close to Itachi, he wasn't even that much above Tsunade, but Current Sasuke is entirely a different story.

And it's been said that one way to break out of Genjutsu is using your own chakra to beat out that used for the Genjutsu. The 4th Raikage has chakra levels similar to the Hachibi no Kyogyu - he would easily break out of Tsukuyomi as if it were nothing, or any other Genjutsu cast upon him. 

Amaterasu can be dodged with Shunshin no Jutsu. Susano'o could make Itachi invincible against the 4th Raikage's blows, where it then becomes a stall war, and as A has much more Stamina than Itachi, he would take it when Susano'o starts fading.


----------



## sasuke uciha boy (Apr 20, 2010)

Many people forgeting that Bee was still paralyzed by Sasuke's inferior Genjutsu.Itachi was a beast while being sick, 90% blind and not 100% serious.So far we know Raikage outmatches Sasuke in speed However Sasuke was able to track Raikage to some extent, now imagine what Itachi could do, while not being blind and being even faster than Sasuke. Honestly I could imagine Itachi take Raikage and Kirabi both on if he used Susanoo. His ninjutsu is just that deadly, and he is a true Uchiha. He's no fool either like Sasuke had been lately, he's freaking smart, and perfect in every sense of being a ninja, except when it comes to stamina. Though it's possible he has better stamina while being healthy. Actually it's pretty plausible as it's only natural you get reduced while being sick. Try running while have a fever and see what I mean. Though his stamina wouldn't really be an issue as the fight wouldn't last that long (probably), and with the "low" ammount of stamina he had he surely pulled off a hell of alot of jutsu in his last moments. Not only did he use all the jutsu he did in the Uchiha fight, but before that he used Kage Bunshin twice and gave Naruto some of his powers (whatever that means). Honestly Itachi is a freaking beast, especially if he was healthy.So Itachi takes this.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Marsala said:


> Sasuke spams MS but rarely uses the genjutsu. He didn't even try to put Raikage, Gaara, Mifune, Mizukage or Tsuchikage under genjutsu despite making eye contact with all of them. Sasuke just doesn't like using genjutsu as much as his brother.



He's used it in three fights: Bee, Shi, Danzo. He can and will use it...and he and the Raikage were making eye contact quite a bit


----------



## Marsala (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> He's used it in three fights: Bee, Shi, Danzo. He can and will use it...and he and the Raikage were making eye contact quite a bit



But he misses lots of opportunities to use it. As I said, he didn't even try to use it on the other Kages, and against Danzou, he didn't try genjutsu until Susano'o, Amaterasu and even the Chidori sword all failed. Sasuke didn't try genjutsu on Raikage because he didn't want to use it, not because he couldn't use it.


----------



## Panos (Apr 20, 2010)

Itachi takes this with _medium_ difficulty.

People who think otherwise should take a look at the conditions in the OP and the part where it says _Bloolusted_. A bloodlusted Raikage is the one who fought Sasuke; the one who lost his arm even though he knew the dangers of attaking Enton head on. No matter what Sasuke pulled out Raikage was still attacking.

On the other hand, we have never seen or hinted what a bloodlusted Itachi would be like. In every battle/skirmish we have seen him he is either at disadvantage, not serious _et cetera_. We can only guess that he will resort to MS jutsus as soon as possible if they are needed.

Taking these into consideration and for the sake of the conversation let's say that Raikage will force Itachi to use his MS jutsus. And let's say that _Itachi_ will be unable to kill Raikage with either Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. When Susanoo is pulled out it is game over. Raikage will simply do what he did against Sasuke. Mindlessly attack Itachi head on using his speed. He will not manage to hit Susanoo though since he will be stabbed by the legendary sword _Totsuka_ and be sealed forever.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

if raikage struggles with sasuke who doesnt even have experance and complete contral o ms than itachi should stmop the raikage with ease in comparasion.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> if raikage struggles with sasuke who doesnt even have experance and complete contral o ms than itachi should stmop the raikage with ease in comparasion.



He would have annihilated Sasuke, had he not been in such a rage to avenge his brother. 

And Sasuke and Itachi are not the same opponent. Sasuke's Enton: Kagutsuchi was what especially 'threatened' the 4th Raikage - Itachi has nothing like that. Hence he will get owned faster than Sasuke. Even if the 4th is in a wild rage like before, Itachi has no way of keeping him in check unlike Sasuke, who would have lost anyway. 

Also, unlike Sasuke, he doesn't have the raw power to burst through the Raiton no Yoroi.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> He would have annihilated Sasuke, had he not been in such a rage to avenge his brother.
> 
> And Sasuke and Itachi are not the same opponent. Sasuke's Enton: Kagutsuchi was what especially 'threatened' the 4th Raikage - Itachi has nothing like that. Hence he will get owned faster than Sasuke. Even if the 4th is in a wild rage like before, Itachi has no way of keeping him in check unlike Sasuke, who would have lost anyway.
> 
> Also, unlike Sasuke, he doesn't have the raw power to burst through the Raiton no Yoroi.



YOUR RIGHT ITACHI WAS STILL STRONGER THAN SASUKE WAS SO HE STILL HAS NO CHANCE!


----------



## Angoobo (Apr 20, 2010)

Raikage wins this with mid difficulty.
Itachi has nothing to bypass E's Raiton shield, plus Raikage can avoid everything Itachi has....
If the Uchiha doesn't use Susanoo, he dies, if he does, Raikage outlasts him( remember that he has Bijuu level chakra).


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

Nagatosama said:


> Raikage wins this with mid difficulty.
> Itachi has nothing to bypass E's Raiton shield, plus Raikage can avoid everything Itachi has....
> If the Uchiha doesn't use Susanoo, he dies, if he does, Raikage outlasts him( remember that he has Bijuu level chakra).



OUTLAST?


that does not happen in this manga?


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the Raikage could outlast Itachi with little problem. Since quite a lot of his repertoire won't be able to hit the Raikage or hurt him in Katon Gourkakyuu's case.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

is that the new trend you cant win  dont fight and run and what still the more powerful ninja is tired?

SAD.... MODS CLOSE THREAD!

HATERS GONNA HATE.

theres no way raikage can win and we all know this.


----------



## DarkRasengan (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> OUTLAST?
> 
> 
> that does not happen in this manga?



Sasuke outlasted itachi....


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> is that the new trend you cant win  dont fight and run and what still the more powerful ninja is tired?
> 
> SAD.... MODS CLOSE THREAD!
> 
> ...





No, Itachi is going to get tired from the fight. Just like in his fight against Sasuke, he used up so much Chakra that he died.


----------



## Angoobo (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> OUTLAST?
> 
> 
> that does not happen in this manga?



I think AS summed up what i meant....


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Marsala said:


> But he misses lots of opportunities to use it. As I said, he didn't even try to use it on the other Kages, and against Danzou, he didn't try genjutsu until Susano'o, Amaterasu and even the Chidori sword all failed. Sasuke didn't try genjutsu on Raikage because he didn't want to use it, not because he couldn't use it.



He's fighting an opponent he knows full well can kill him and doesn't bother with a Genjutsu when he has the clear, open chance?


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

Atlantic Storm said:


> No, Itachi is going to get tired from the fight. Just like in his fight against Sasuke, he used up so much Chakra that he died.



bottom line raikage is not outlasting itachi didnt lose susnaoo because of charkra he lost it because he was dying from sickness.

raikage is not even the type to back down he dies fighting.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Relevance? Itachi ran out of chakra completely in the fight with Sasuke. That's why he died. He was 'just about out' after the second Amaterasu


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Relevance? Itachi ran out of chakra completely in the fight with Sasuke. That's why he died. He was 'just about out' after the second Amaterasu



fanifiction?It said itachi died from sickness not chakra.STOP THE NONSENSE.

and itachi used ama -FOUR-five times in that fight you see fireballs shooting away from the mountain.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

At what point? Itachi was sick, yes, but he'd been on medicine to hold it back. At the end, it was a combo of having no chakra left, Susanoo sucking his life and probably compounding his sickness...,

And he used Amaterasu twice. Once on the fire ball and another time to chase Sasuke.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> At what point? Itachi was sick, yes, but he'd been on medicine to hold it back. At the end, it was a combo of having no chakra left, Susanoo sucking his life and probably compounding his sickness...,
> 
> And he used Amaterasu twice. Once on the fire ball and another time to chase Sasuke.



Enough of thIS nonsense.

he could not beat sasuke whos ms experiance and ability as a whole was never fully mastered ITS borderline retardation to say he beats itachi when he is not only more experianced and as mastered ms welding it for nealy 10 years hes faster aS well as more intellgent than sasuke and of course smarter than the raikage.

Raikage loses simply because he doesnt have the power or the feats to beat itachi and its not like fighting *HALF ASS MS sasuke.*

For god saske itachi can uses substitution justus at the same speed raikage can move its a whole another ball game ONE he would not be ready for he HAS NO CHANCE PERIOD.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 20, 2010)

This could go either way depending on the way match unfolds.

Raikage does and has the abilities to beat itachi early on in the fight. However raikage must win quick because if itachi brings out susannoo it's game over( that's if susanno can hit raikage).

I give this to itachi 7/10 times. Raikage is just a one hit wonder still. We need to see more from him


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> bottom line raikage is not outlasting itachi didnt lose susnaoo because of charkra he lost it because he was dying from sickness.
> 
> raikage is not even the type to back down he dies fighting.



The sickness sped up his death, but it wasn't the only reason. He already spent a crap load of Chakra during the fight, that combined with his sickness and the fact Susano-o drains at the user's life force...



Jodyjoe the great said:


> fanifiction?It said itachi died from sickness not chakra.STOP THE NONSENSE.



Fanifiction? I think he said Fanfiction.

And no, sickness wasn't the only reason.



> and itachi used ama -FOUR-five times in that fight you see fireballs shooting away from the mountain.



Don't make me laugh, Itachi didn't use it four or five times. He used it once, twice at most.



Jodyjoe the great said:


> Enough of thIS nonsense.



Nonsense? Have you read your posts? You think Itachi used Amaterasu four or five times. He would be dead if he used it that many times. 



> For god saske itachi can uses substitution justus at the same speed raikage can move its a whole another ball game ONE he would not be ready for he HAS NO CHANCE PERIOD.



Do you think Substitution no jutsu is instantaneous? Because it isn't, it's just the user grabbing an object at high speed and replacing himself with it. It only works when the difference in speed/skill between the two fighters is very large. In this case, the Raikage is actually much faster than Itachi.


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

Itachi could easily solo with full Susano'o when terminally ill. Fully healthy Itachi would wipe his ass with Raikage.

*Itachi wins 10/10 times.*


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 20, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> Raikage loses simply because he doesnt have the power or the feats to beat itachi and its not like fighting *HALF ASS MS sasuke.*
> 
> For god saske itachi can uses substitution justus at the same speed raikage can move its a whole another ball game ONE he would not be ready for he HAS NO CHANCE PERIOD.



At least, Sasuke's Enton: Kagutsuchi was of such a nature that it would threaten the 4th Raikage much more than anything Itachi had to offer, even if there was still a massive gap between the two Uchiha brothers then. A > B and B > C does not mean A > C.

And Itachi cannot use Substitution Jutsu at that level of speed, plus what you are saying is just a matter of PNJ, which does not exist in the Battledome.



Jinnobi said:


> Itachi could easily solo with full Susano'o when terminally ill. Fully healthy Itachi would wipe his ass with Raikage.
> 
> *Itachi wins 10/10 times.*



And how would he even touch the 4th Raikage?


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> And how would he even touch the 4th Raikage?



If you honestly believe that Raikage could last more than several seconds trying to dodge Susano'o's incredibly swift attacks , I have nothing more to say.


Except: exploding clones, genjutsu (which even if automatically broken would perhaps incapacitate momentarily) Amaretsu dodging (which could set up Susano'o and vice versa, i.e. make Raikage jump and hit him with Amaretsu, make him dodge amaretsu and hit him with Totsuka sword, etc), clones to set up attacks or distract, shuriken storm to set up amaretsu/susano'o.

basically, Susano'o is fast enough to kill Raikage. It was fast enough to catch Orochimaru between words and surprise him - which is pretty damn fast.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 20, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> If you honestly believe that Raikage could last more than several seconds trying to dodge Susano'o's incredibly swift attacks , I have nothing more to say.
> 
> 
> Except: exploding clones, genjutsu (which even if automatically broken would perhaps incapacitate momentarily) Amaretsu dodging (which could set up Susano'o and vice versa, i.e. make Raikage jump and hit him with Amaretsu, make him dodge amaretsu and hit him with Totsuka sword, etc), clones to set up attacks or distract, shuriken storm to set up amaretsu/susano'o.
> ...



And Orochimaru is nowhere close to the 4th Raikage's speed and reflexes. Shuriken storm and exploding clones will do nothing if even Chidori and Chidori Gatana failed to do the job against his Raiton no Yoroi. Plus, what's to say the Raiton no Yoroi wouldn't block the Totsuka anyway?

And even if it could, let's remember that Itachi is nowhere as fast as the 4th Raikage, even with the sword, and the Raikage is skilled, fast and juiced up enough to keep on dodging until Itachi collapses due to lack of Stamina.


----------



## sasuke uciha boy (Apr 20, 2010)

We do not know if Raikage can or can not dispel genjutsu, but to keep it fair, we have to stick with what we know, which is he *can't.*
You can say that he might be able to dispel genjutsu, but then I can say that Itachi has 4th MS jutsu.
All we know is that Raikage has never shown the ability to dispel Gen, and Itachi has never shown a 4th super jutsu.

tsukuyomi=9/10 times win for Itachi.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 20, 2010)

sasuke uciha boy said:


> We do not know if Raikage can or can not dispel genjutsu, but to keep it fair, we have to stick with what we know, which is he *can't.*
> You can say that he might be able to dispel genjutsu, but then I can say that Itachi has 4th MS jutsu.
> All we know is that Raikage has never shown the ability to dispel Gen, and Itachi has never shown a 4th super jutsu.
> 
> tsukuyomi=9/10 times win for Itachi.



But, his synapses are too fast for him to be caught by Genjutsu, so Itachi would be unable to trap him in Genjutsu, even if it could actually affect him.


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> And Orochimaru is nowhere close to the 4th Raikage's speed and reflexes.



Reflexes? No. Speed? That's debatable. He may not be fully there, but Oro is pretty damn fast. But this has nothing to do with bodily speed. Susano'o stuck so fast that Orochimaru was taken by surprise IN HIS MIND. It's not like he could see it coming and not move fast enough. It was moving so fast his brain was having a hard time comprehending the speed. Orochimaru has greater mental agility than Raikage. I think we can all agree on that.

What I'm saying is that Susano'o can strike so quickly that even a "genius" was hard-pressed to comprehend how fast the strike was.




> Shuriken storm and exploding clones will do nothing if even Chidori and Chidori Gatana failed to do the job against his Raiton no Yoroi.



Exploding clones aren't just going to be shrugged off by lightning armor. Even if they cushioned the impact, you're still getting knocked around. Explosions don't simply burn, they smash and push back. His movement will be altered by explosions... as for shuriken, who knows? I doubt he would want to be hit in the eye by one, lightning armor or not.




> Plus, what's to say the Raiton no Yoroi wouldn't block the Totsuka anyway?



I'm choosing to ignore this - for your sake.



> And even if it could, let's remember that Itachi is nowhere as fast as the 4th Raikage



That's debatable. Itachi had a 5 in speed, and his hand seals were faster than the sharigan can track. He also blitzed 3 Uchiha police so quickly that they couldn't react, even with sharigan. He also kicked Kunenai and appeared BEHIND her. His speed is uncanny. 




> even with the sword



Pure assumption, which evidence points against in my opinion. 



> and the Raikage is skilled, fast and juiced up enough to keep on dodging until Itachi collapses due to lack of Stamina.



I disagree: see speed feats for evidence.


----------



## BloodofDante (Apr 20, 2010)

Enel said:


> You Do read the manga Right?
> 
> Itachi Put Up Suasnoo As Fast as a Lightning Strike.
> Lightning Speed>E's Speed
> ...



um Raikage moves at the speed of light, has tailed beast level chakra,
can shatter stone with his bare hands, dodged ameterasu at point blank range leaving only an after image.

itachi aint landing a blow


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

BloodofDante said:


> um Raikage moves at the speed of light




Stopped reading.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Reflexes? No. Speed? That's debatable. He may not be fully there, but Oro is pretty damn fast. But this has nothing to do with bodily speed. Susano'o stuck so fast that Orochimaru was taken by surprise IN HIS MIND. It's not like he could see it coming and not move fast enough. It was moving so fast his brain was having a hard time comprehending the speed. Orochimaru has greater mental agility than Raikage. I think we can all agree on that.



Orochimaru wasn't even paying attention, nor can he be said to be anywhere CLOSE to his best. The idea the Raikage and Orochimaru are comparable in speed is also kind of "...what?' The Raikage is shockingly fast...Orochimaru has a 4.5 and I don't recall many great speed feats



> What I'm saying is that Susano'o can strike so quickly that even a "genius" was hard-pressed to comprehend how fast the strike was.


Yes, that'll happen when you aren't paying attention because you don't perceive any danger





> Exploding clones aren't just going to be shrugged off by lightning armor. Even if they cushioned the impact, you're still getting knocked around. Explosions don't simply burn, they smash and push back. His movement will be altered by explosions... as for shuriken, who knows? I doubt he would want to be hit in the eye by one, lightning armor or not.


Exploding clones barely harmed KAkashi at point blank. The Raikage is much more durable, protected and if he could easily dodge Jugo's blast at point blank and suffer no damage from it whatsoever, what on earth will a relatively small and weak explosion do? 

And are you really even indicating a shuriken will get through the Raiton Armor? I mean...REALLY? Chidori barely penetrated it



<I>
I'm choosing to ignore this - for your sake.</I>
Susanoo isn't invincible. We've seen it deflected 


<I>
That's debatable. Itachi had a 5 in speed, and his hand seals were faster than the sharigan can track. He also blitzed 3 Uchiha police so quickly that they couldn't react, even with sharigan. He also kicked Kunenai and appeared BEHIND her. His speed is uncanny. </I>
So, his seals are faster than Kakashi before he reached his best....he blitzed three fodder without names and Kurenai is known for speed. The Raikage's speed let him dodge Amaterasu and he blitzed White Zetsu from across the room. 
Itachi has not demonstrated superior speed to the Raikage when Kakashi kept up with him just fine post time skip





> Pure assumption, which evidence points against in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree: see speed feats for evidence.



Beating up people who haven't hit their best and bunshin feints? Really not sufficient speed feats


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> > Yes, that'll happen when you aren't paying attention because you don't perceive any danger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Lightysnake said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly, having a multi-story tall raging god of battle who just hacked your hydra into pieces standing within striking distance is conducive to "not paying attention." Actually, do you have ANY reason to say he wasn't paying attention besides creating a fanfic?
> ...


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 20, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Jinnobi said:
> 
> 
> > Erm, yes. Notice how he was yelling at Itachi, laughing hysterically and going on about taking Sasuke's body? Any caution there?
> ...


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 20, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Lightysnake said:
> 
> 
> > You said he wasn't paying attention. He was certainly paying attention.
> ...


----------



## Thunder (Apr 21, 2010)

Raikage takes this. Amaterasu will do nothing but create a circle of flames when Raikage elegantly maneuvers around them, leaving after images and a dazed Itachi in his wake. Realizing he has little chance of victory, Itachi will bring out Susano'o. Yata Mirror will be useless against Raikages speed, as it can only block attacks from one side. Susano'o will crumble before Raikage's superior strength. With his last line of defense gone, Raikage will go for the kill. One punch is enough to break Itachi's bones and subsequently shatter his will, along with any hopes he had of victory.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 21, 2010)

Y'know, considering what it took to make SUsanoo come out with Sasuke's insane showboating, any fight with Itachi will truly end before Susanoo comes out. One way or the other


----------



## Aoshi (Apr 21, 2010)

Raikage wins. Itachi can not keep up with Raikage. Amaterasu and Tsukyomi will both be ineffective. Knowing Itachi, he will try using Tsukyomi first, but will have it broken. This will greatly harm his stamina. Then he will waste an Amaterasu, which will further deplete his chakra. By the time he uses Susano, he will only be able to hold it for a couple minutes. Raikage can just dodge it continuously until Itachi can't use it anymore.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 21, 2010)

susnaoo stomps raikage end of thread.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 21, 2010)

Yeah, because Itachi will use Susano-o off the bat won't he?


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 21, 2010)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Yeah, because Itachi will use Susano-o off the bat won't he?



why not? there arent any Restrictions.

im tired of biased ppl like you who always want a situation for itachi to lose in against ppl we all no are weaker then he is by manga feats.

there is no way in shape or form if raikage could barely take sasuke he is going to win thats manga canon stop your bias. 

he stomps him with susnaoo off the bat and you cant stop him.


----------



## Aoshi (Apr 21, 2010)

How will Susano kill him? It has no way of touching him.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 21, 2010)

KnownTitanKid said:


> How will Susano kill him? It has no way of touching him.



when he attacks!


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 21, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> why not? there arent any Restrictions.



Because it's very OOC for Itachi to use Susano-o off the bat.



> im tired of biased ppl like you



...



> who always want a situation for itachi to lose in against ppl we all no are weaker then he is by manga feats.



Actually I say Itachi wins most of the time and I never said the Raikage would win this. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.



> there is no way in shape or form if raikage could barely take sasuke he is going to win thats manga canon stop your bias.



Raikage could barely take out Sasuke? He was destroying them, nothing Sasuke did ever bothered the Raikage.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 21, 2010)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Because it's very OOC for Itachi to use Susano-o off the bat.



no your trying to downplay him by saying he doesnt just crush him quickly






> Actually I say Itachi wins most of the time and I never said the Raikage would win this. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.



really i cant tell



> Raikage could barely take out Sasuke? He was destroying them, nothing Sasuke did ever bothered the Raikage.




sasuke with ama alone was able to hold off the raikage leaveing him no options but to attack thur the ama .

we dont no how the end would of played out but raikge would of lost a leg and at least been put in a wheel chair for the rest of his life i dont call that destroying. in the begining yes but towards the end no!


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 21, 2010)

KnownTitanKid said:


> Raikage wins. Itachi can not keep up with Raikage. Amaterasu and Tsukyomi will both be ineffective. Knowing Itachi, he will try using Tsukyomi first, but will have it broken. This will greatly harm his stamina. Then he will waste an Amaterasu, which will further deplete his chakra. By the time he uses Susano, he will only be able to hold it for a couple minutes. Raikage can just dodge it continuously until Itachi can't use it anymore.



Raikage is fast but people think raikage is going to speed blitz anyone and win which is completly well I dunno.... Speed blitzing an elite nin is not going to happen. 

We have no way to tell if raikage is immune to genjutsu or not especially one as powerful as tsukyomi. Just because he says so does not mean its true. 




Jodyjoe the great said:


> why not? there arent any Restrictions.
> 
> im tired of biased ppl like you who always want a situation for itachi to lose in against ppl we all no are weaker then he is by manga feats.
> 
> ...



How is he being biased? Itachi and sasuke our not the same perso. They almost fight entirely different besides for the sharingan techs. You cannot just say he is going to start off with susanno when there is ZERO evidence he would. Not one person starts the fight off with the strongest move. Thats like saying Kakashi is going to Kumai everyone in a split second at the start of the fight since hes bloodlusted. He would literally be unbeatable to anyone besides madara

raikage barely taking sasuke? You must be reading the wrong manga then. Raikage had the upper hand until sasuke used Susanno and Gaara and co came and even that is debatable(which im not going to argue). It was Raikage CHOICE to punch through amaterusa. 

Would the leg drop of killed Sasuke...probably not


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 21, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> no your trying to downplay him by saying he doesnt just crush him quickly



When has Itachi ever started off with a powerful attack?



> sasuke with ama alone was able to hold off the raikage leaveing him no options but to attack thur the ama .



The Raikage would've done that anyway, close combat is the the only combat method he's got.



> we dont no how the end would of played out but raikge would of lost a leg and at least been put in a wheel chair for the rest of his life i dont call that destroying. in the begining yes but towards the end no!



His leg drop would've pierced through Susano-o and killed Sasuke. He would've lost a leg, but Sasuke would've died.


----------



## Angoobo (Apr 21, 2010)

Itachi's screwed against an opponent who's way faster and has far more stamina than him, it just happens Raikage is one of those characters....


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 21, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Reflexes? No. Speed? That's debatable. He may not be fully there, but Oro is pretty damn fast. But this has nothing to do with bodily speed. Susano'o stuck so fast that Orochimaru was taken by surprise IN HIS MIND. It's not like he could see it coming and not move fast enough. It was moving so fast his brain was having a hard time comprehending the speed. Orochimaru has greater mental agility than Raikage. I think we can all agree on that.
> 
> What I'm saying is that Susano'o can strike so quickly that even a "genius" was hard-pressed to comprehend how fast the strike was.
> 
> ...



First and foremost, Orochimaru is not faster than A when it comes to mental speed. You're the one with assumptions here.

Secondly, Orochimaru was standing in one place - he wasn't moving around constantly.

Thirdly, you expect some normal shuriken could just even graze the 4th Raikage? Do you believe shuriken can be even slightly comparable to Chidori in power? There's a reason why Chidori and Raikiri are known so well for their power and speed, and used by Kakashi and Sasuke more than shuriken or shuriken storms. The Exploding Clones were fodder, btw, they won't do anything to the 4th's shield.

It is a shield, empowered with chakra on the level of the Hachibi no Kyogyu - it will be no simple matter of piercing it. Although, knowing you, you obviously disagree.

And Atlantic Storm, there's no point in arguing about Itachi with Jodyjoe, he's too deluded about his favorite character and his hype to take the truth into context, the truth that the 4th Raikage would own Itachi, although in a battle of attrition, but ownage nevertheless.

There is no reason why Itachi would start with Susano'o so soon, and anyone who thinks he would begin with that or any MS Technique whatsoever ASAP, is just plain wrong.


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 21, 2010)

Itachi would use Susano'o as a defensive measure - if that means right off the bat to counter Raikage's attacks, that's fine.


----------



## Lightysnake (Apr 21, 2010)

Problem is the Raikage moves way faster than Susanoo can claim to as of yet. Itachi can't keep Susanoo up long at all.


----------



## sanji's left eye (Apr 21, 2010)

It would be a good fight I guess. With 1st raiton shroud, Itachi could react to his attacks just like suigetsu/juugo/sasuke could. somehow genjutsu was ineffective against him so presumably the same here (guess due to his speed or something?). taijutsu/bunshins/katons will also be easily nulled by his durability. amaterasu gets avoided. only thing left would be susano. to tank attacks its going to take at least skeleton susano to block. however itachi cant hold it up fro long to our knowledge and can merely step out of range (and due to superior speed can stay out of range) until it dissipates.


----------



## Jinnobi (Apr 21, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> Problem is the Raikage moves way faster than Susanoo can claim to as of yet. Itachi can't keep Susanoo up long at all.



Susano'o has been shown to move very swiftly: perhaps more swiftly than Raikage. In any case, I do not see Raikage being able to dodge Susano'o for an extended period of time. Also: claiming that a healthy Itachi couldn't keep Susano'o up for an extended period of time is assuming too much. Sasuke kept Susano'o up for nearly the entire fight against Danzo, and he was also using other techniques such as Amaretsu and Tsukiyomi (debatable, but it was still a genjutsu nonetheless) DURING the time he used Susano'o. 

If Susano'o could be kept up by Sasuke for an entire battle which lasted around 10 minutes, then I see healthy Itachi keeping it up for just as long, if not longer - he is still the more intelligent and skilled of the two. One could argue that Sasuke would have more stamina than a healthy Itachi, but it is liekly that they would have similar stamina levels. (It can also be argued that stamina doesn't play into Susano'o: life force does)

In any case, I don't see Raikage winning against Susano'o: as if Raikage could continuously dodge the swift and instantly lethal Totsuka sword for minutes on end, without ever slipping up once - while at the same time dodging Amaretsu and clones attempting to hold him or cause him to stumble for a split second. It's just too much for Raikage to handle for minutes on end. If Danzo couldn't survive against Sasuke's Susano'o without being killed 8 or more times in 10 minutes, I don't see Raikage NOT dying at least once in that amount of time. And Raikage only has one life.


----------



## Abinash Uzumaki (Apr 22, 2010)

how will raikage counter tsukyomi?

besides raikage can't break thriugh itachi's defence-susanoo

genjutsu should be enough for raikage      he should fall in genjutsu cuz very few ninja know that itachi can use genjutsu from nails


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Susano'o has been shown to move very swiftly: perhaps more swiftly than Raikage. In any case, I do not see Raikage being able to dodge Susano'o for an extended period of time. Also: claiming that a healthy Itachi couldn't keep Susano'o up for an extended period of time is assuming too much. Sasuke kept Susano'o up for nearly the entire fight against Danzo, and he was also using other techniques such as Amaretsu and Tsukiyomi (debatable, but it was still a genjutsu nonetheless) DURING the time he used Susano'o.
> 
> If Susano'o could be kept up by Sasuke for an entire battle which lasted around 10 minutes, then I see healthy Itachi keeping it up for just as long, if not longer - he is still the more intelligent and skilled of the two. One could argue that Sasuke would have more stamina than a healthy Itachi, but it is liekly that they would have similar stamina levels. (It can also be argued that stamina doesn't play into Susano'o: life force does)
> 
> In any case, I don't see Raikage winning against Susano'o: as if Raikage could continuously dodge the swift and instantly lethal Totsuka sword for minutes on end, without ever slipping up once - while at the same time dodging Amaretsu and clones attempting to hold him or cause him to stumble for a split second. It's just too much for Raikage to handle for minutes on end. If Danzo couldn't survive against Sasuke's Susano'o without being killed 8 or more times in 10 minutes, I don't see Raikage NOT dying at least once in that amount of time. And Raikage only has one life.



:sweat

Itachi, using both Amaterasu and Susano'o simultaneously? And nothing says Itachi's Stamina is even close to Sasuke's, even if he were well, what with his dark chakra and what not. 

Being more skilled and intelligent has nothing to do with this. Kakashi is more skiled and intelligent than Naruto, yet Naruto can produce more TKB.

And when did Susano'o show comparable speed to the 4th Raikage, or even higher?


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> :sweat
> 
> Itachi, using both Amaterasu and Susano'o simultaneously? And nothing says Itachi's Stamina is even close to Sasuke's, even if he were well, what with his dark chakra and what not.



he doesnt need alot of stamina to do that?



> Being more skilled and intelligent has nothing to do with this. Kakashi is more skiled and intelligent than Naruto, yet Naruto can produce more TKB.
> 
> And when did Susano'o show comparable speed to the 4th Raikage, or even higher?




he outsmarts the raikage and kills him with susnaoo! 

raikage cant win and your not thinking logically raikage is going to attack eventally and when he does he dies


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> he doesnt need alot of stamina to do that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean, you're not thinking logically. 

How will the 4th Raikage be outsmarted? At least take the trouble to explain it, like Jinnobi did.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> You mean, you're not thinking logically.



no your not thinking logically im sure of it.

your understatemating intellgence factor as well as itachis speed

your being one sided and biasd



> How will the 4th Raikage be outsmarted? At least take the trouble to explain it, like Jinnobi did.




Why? hes no where near as intellgent as itachi logically following the pattern in itachis fights he probably will be out smarted.

its not like i can predict his game plan.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> no your not thinking logically im sure of it.
> 
> your understatemating intellgence factor as well as itachis speed
> 
> ...



I'm not asking you to predict Itachi's game plan, I'm asking you to be logical. 

The 4th Raikage is much more experienced than Sasuke, he will not fall for traps like that so easily. He may be bloodlusted, but not to the same extent as he would be if his brother was abducted or killed, and thus could control himself enough. Itachi also has no such traps that can endanger the 4th whatsoever.

Itachi and Sasuke were about equal in speed and reflexes. Itachi had an advantage in Seal Weaving speed, which is meaningless against someone as fast as the 4th Raikage, as even Sakura could dodge his Katon: Goukakyuu no Jutsu (Shoten Clones have the same physical stats as the originals).


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> I'm not asking you to predict Itachi's game plan, I'm asking you to be logical.
> 
> The 4th Raikage is much more experienced than Sasuke, he will not fall for traps like that so easily. He may be bloodlusted, but not to the same extent as he would be if his brother was abducted or killed, and thus could control himself enough. Itachi also has no such traps that can endanger the 4th whatsoever.



and itachi is not experienced?

it doesnt matter he will fall for them like the rest pls....your talking about a man who is supposed to be one of the greatest if not the greatest genius in the manga he was the leader of ANBU at 13 years old and in akatsuki for almost 10 years.

You think he cant set or fool sombody who can get as hot headed like the raikage into a trap?



> Itachi and Sasuke were about equal in speed and reflexes. Itachi had an advantage in Seal Weaving speed, which is meaningless against someone as fast as the 4th Raikage, as even Sakura could dodge his Katon: Goukakyuu no Jutsu (Shoten Clones have the same physical stats as the originals).



itachis speed=5 sasuke speed=4.5 thats not equal by any means not even close.

itachis speed feats are beyond sharingan as well even if you wanna be a hater and just say noooooo its only his jutsu.

Its still means he can use substitution AT same rate the raikge kage can move he can use his justu at the same lvl as raikges speed it was stated itachi was alot faster than what he has shown but you downplay that and act like the speed for itachi is a big difference and the reality is its not.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> and itachi is not experienced?
> 
> it doesnt matter he will fall for them like the rest pls....your talking about a man who is supposed to be one of the greatest if not the greatest genius in the manga he was the leader of ANBU at 13 years old and in akatsuki for almost 10 years.
> 
> ...



Itachi was alot faster than what he has shown? Don't make up fanfiction. And the Databook stats can be plain bullshit at times. How does Ukon have a 5 in Ninjutsu but Naruto and Yamato have a 4 and 4.5 respectively? How does Lee have a 5 in Taijutsu when Neji who is obviously better also has only a 4.5? Orochimaru having equal Taijutsu to Iruka and Sai in 3.5, and less than Kurenai at 4.

Substitution does not count in the Battledome - that's PNJ.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 23, 2010)

> itachis speed=5 sasuke speed=4.5 thats not equal by any means not even close.
> 
> itachis speed feats are beyond sharingan as well even if you wanna be a hater and just say noooooo its only his jutsu.
> 
> Its still means he can use substitution AT same rate the raikge kage can move he can use his justu at the same lvl as raikges speed it was stated itachi was alot faster than what he has shown but you downplay that and act like the speed for itachi is a big difference and the reality is its not



Sorry but Itachi really has no impressive speed feats outside of genjutsu. Is he still incredibly fast? Yes without a doubt but there our tons of shiniobi on par and or faster. 

Itachi has incredible hand speed that stands out among all others however most shiniobi use jutsus in one or two seals now.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

Complete_Ownage said:


> Sorry but Itachi really has no impressive speed feats outside of genjutsu. Is he still incredibly fast? Yes without a doubt but there our tons of shiniobi on par and or faster.
> 
> Itachi has incredible hand speed that stands out among all others however most shiniobi use jutsus in one or two seals now.



You may be an Itachi fan, but you're all right. 

+Reps


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 23, 2010)

Wind Master said:


> You may be an Itachi fan, but you're all right.
> 
> +Reps




Just trying to keep trolls in check. Sickining how Itachi gets trolled on this forum...


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

hes not a itachifan 


just because his ava has itachi CAUSE thats how he getS reps from ANTI-itachiFANS! your both biased 

you got a good schme going for you.

itachi has no impressvie speed feats outside genjutsu.

how is that even related? haters gonna hate

And itachi is faster than wat he has shown checkmate you both dont read the manga.



leave this debate to the ppl who can read


----------



## sCam (Apr 23, 2010)

I'll give this to itachi. I believe any Akatsuki can beat Raikage.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> hes not a itachifan
> 
> 
> just because his ava has itachi CAUSE thats how he getS reps from ANTI-itachiFANS! your both biased
> ...



Even so, he still isn't strong enough to beat the Raikage.


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Even so, he still isn't strong enough to beat the Raikage.



So the raikage who couldnt beat sasuke with low MS mastery.

Can beat itachi with high ms mastery.

I understand

SOMEONE CLOSE THIS THREAD


----------



## Maxi (Apr 23, 2010)

*Very interesting match-up .*
I think that Itachi is gonna win this one. He is more of a intelligent and calm fighter while the Raikage is a straight-to-the-business direct kind of fighter. 

Itachi can easily find a tactic to weaken Raikage and then counter-attack him (Example: he uses Tsukyomi to weaken him and finish it with Amaterasu, or plain simply uses Susanoo). But i think the Raikage will be most likely a tough opponent for Itachi.


----------



## Kazekage Gaara (Apr 23, 2010)

I think Itachi is by far stronger... If he uses Amaterasu, Raikage is done for...


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Apr 23, 2010)

You realize the Raikage dodged Amaterasu, right?


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> hes not a itachifan
> 
> 
> just because his ava has itachi CAUSE thats how he getS reps from ANTI-itachiFANS! your both biased
> ...



You have it all wrong. I AM an Itachi fan not an Itachi Fanboy. Like ive said i prefer his chracters over Jiraiyas. And most of my reps dont come from anti Uchiha people. I dont favor any character I call it how I see it

I never said Itachi was slow. I said he has hardly any speed feats outside of genjutsu. Many other shiniobi our just as fast and or faster

You act like Itachi is the best at everything



Jodyjoe the great said:


> So the raikage who couldnt beat sasuke with low MS mastery.
> 
> Can beat itachi with high ms mastery.
> 
> ...



Even if he does have "low ms mastery" at this point which is debatable since you need to "master MS in both eyes" to even bring out susanno to begin with. We know Itachi trumps all in genjutsu however sasuke has shown better amaterusa conrol and abilites then Itachi.

Plus sasuke eye site wasnt as bad as Itachi was. He was only starting to feel the effects.



Kazekage Gaara said:


> I think Itachi is by far stronger... If he uses Amaterasu, Raikage is done for...



Except Sasuke who has shown better ability with amaterasu then Itachi missed almost at point blank range ??


Also Mr Joey go reread my original post. I picked Itachi to win


----------



## Jodyjoe the great (Apr 23, 2010)

Complete_Ownage said:


> You have it all wrong. I AM an Itachi fan not an Itachi Fanboy. Like ive said i prefer his chracters over Jiraiyas. And most of my reps dont come from anti Uchiha people. Many come from Itachi fans themselves.
> 
> I never said Itachi was slow. I said he has hardly any speed feats outside of genjutsu. Many other shiniobi our just as fast and or faster



name them and dont say jiraya he couldnt blitz deva



> Even if he does have "low ms mastery" at this point which is debatable since you need to "master MS in both eyes" to even bring out susanno to begin with. We know Itachi trumps all in genjutsu however sasuke has shown better amaterusa conrol and abilites then Itachi.
> 
> Plus sasuke eye site wasnt as bad as Itachi was. He was only starting to feel the effects.



What are you getting at his mastery he adimtted was still lower then itachis at that point my point still stands.

ALL HE HAD WAS AMA thats it so what?

like i said accrodING to you and other ppl raikage who could not beat sasuke with low MS mastery.

Now suddnLy can beat itachi with high ms mastery who is also faster and smarter then sasuke.

THATS what your logic looks like  i understand you guys now we just cant afford to take you joke posters to seriously next time.


----------



## Complete_Ownage (Apr 23, 2010)

Jodyjoe the great said:


> name them and dont say jiraya he couldnt blitz deva



Just for starters....Gai, raikage, bee right off the top of my head.
SM naruto and yes HM Jiraiya by feats

By feats....Jiraiya fight with pein was mostly off panel and deva was only shown for a brief amount of time before it cut away. Plus Deva fights with the other bodies in front which makes it almost impossible to speed blitz him. 




> What are you getting at his mastery he adimtted was still lower then itachis at that point my point still stands.
> 
> ALL HE HAD WAS AMA thats it so what?
> 
> ...



You need too master two MS jutsus to bring out susanno. Sasuke may have not mastered them as well as Itachi but he is one of the only few uchiha ever to use susanno. And like i said Amaterusa goes to sasuke. Plus it's still highly debatable if sasuke has tsu or not 

Plus throw in the "semi" healthy eyes that sasuke has at this point. Sasuke and Itachi our not the same person. they fight entirely different besides for the sharingan/MS techs. Plus you cant almost take for granted sasuke improved in speed since the Itachi fight

And let me help you out....



Complete_Ownage said:


> Raikage is fast but people think raikage is going to speed blitz anyone and win which is completly well I dunno.... Speed blitzing an elite nin is not going to happen.
> 
> We have no way to tell if raikage is immune to genjutsu or not especially one as powerful as tsukyomi. Just because he says so does not mean its true.
> 
> ...



Yes im an anti Uchiha tard when i agree and support Itachi winning


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 23, 2010)

The only things that caused the 4th Raikage to come close to death when facing Sasuke were Enton: Kagutsuchi, and his own rage - neither of which are present. An opponent could be so much weaker (Kage Summit Sasuke) and yet prove incredibly devastating compared to an opponent much stronger than that one, but who gets beaten (Itachi). Enton: Kagutsuchi is the ultimate deterrent to the 4th's strength and speed, and thus his entire fighting style. Touching that would get him engulfed in its eternal flames. 

On the other hand, we know that just won't happen with Susano'o.

Nothing says Itachi's mastery of the MS is superior to Sasuke's. In fact Sasuke is the one who is better off.

Itachi is far better at Tsukuyomi, Sasuke is far better at Amaterasu. Susano'o on the other hand is an interesting case. Itachi's has the legendary weapons, but Susano'o first and foremost is a Ninjutsu, which is where Sasuke beats Itachi. Sasuke also has more Stamina than Itachi, and those arrows have shown crazier speed feats. And to cap it all, Sasuke's eyes were said twice I believe to possess more potential than Itachi's.

It's not a question of mastery alone. For instance, in the Battledome at least, the 4th Raikage would screw Itachi over, as in this battle. However, Deidara, an opponent we can all agree is far inferior to Itachi, would most probably beat the 4th, as he has shown no long-range capabilities whatsoever that can deal with an airborne Deidara. I don't see the 4th finding a way around C3.

Match-ups are what are important in the Shinobi World.

Even if he can dodge that, I doubt he can do anything whatsoever to prevent a tie in C0. Not saying the 4th can't win, but Deidara is much smarter and should know exactly what to do. So it would probably be between a win and a tie, and a small chance of victory for the 4th.

Itachi is also one of my favorite characters - but I support him as a fan, not a fanboy, a tard or a troll. 

Jodyjoe, cool it with the Itachi fanboyism.


----------



## Jinnobi (May 15, 2010)

> Nothing says Itachi's mastery of the MS is superior to Sasuke's. In fact Sasuke is the one who is better off.



This is just wrong.

Itachi's Susano'o > Sasuke's (until right before Sasuke went blind)
Itachi's Tsukiyomi >>> Sasuke's (if he has it)
Itachi's Amaretsu > Sasuke' (Sasuke's is manipulatable, but weak)


----------



## Sadgoob (May 15, 2010)

Atlantic Storm said:


> You realize the Raikage dodged Amaterasu, right?



With his shroud turned to its highest state, to the point where his hair spiked up, which was purely circumstantial. If the technique had been used any other time in the battle it would have likely landed.



Jinnobi said:


> This is just wrong.
> 
> Itachi's Susano'o > Sasuke's (until right before Sasuke went blind)
> Itachi's Tsukiyomi >>> Sasuke's (if he has it)
> Itachi's Amaretsu > Sasuke' (Sasuke's is manipulatable, but weak)



Building on Jinnobi, who always seems to be right, Sasuke's ability to *use* Amaterasu and *manipulate* Amaterasu are in different eyes because they are different techniques. Itachi is *certainly* better with Amaterasu as his burns much hotter, but has not demonstrated the use of an Enton.

And Ē is not immune or even resistant to Genjutsu.


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (May 16, 2010)

Given that Itachi was able to activate Susano'o fast enough to block a _bolt of lightning_, I think it's safe to say that Susano'o's activation is faster than the Raikage.  With the Yata Mirror capable of blocking any attack, and the Sword of Totsuka instantly sealing the soul of anyone it touches, I think Itachi takes this.


----------



## machiavelli2009 (May 16, 2010)

itachi is better at ama and all MS jutsu
itachi had completed susanoo b4 the begining of the manga and was still able to fight for a good 3 years in the manga. he didnt loose his eye sight the 2nd he mastered the full susanoo unlike sasuke. so in susanoo itachi is better
tskuyomi itachi is exp(>>>>>>>>>>>>>) than sasuke
amateratsu itachi> sasuke
sasuke needs to use another eye just to stop the flames, all itachi has to do is close his ama eye. and the flames stop
sasuke ama has lesser feats, but in terms of spatial manipulation sasuke trumps
but itachi uses ama in a more skillful manner so itachi is more skilled
lemme ask can a shinra tensei kill raikage???
cuz if so the yata mirror will mess him up the 2nd he runs into it. 
and susanoo isnt slow, sasuke could run and use ama while in his susanoo though incomplete 
susanoo has no range, it goes as far as the user wants it to go
suanoo becomes the user arms and legs....
so raikage isnt getting past itachi 10-20 second susanoo


----------



## bigdaddy (May 16, 2010)

itachi wins hands down. he's healthy. all of the fights we have seen him in he has been sick and he still won. If he isn't fast enough he is  smart enough. Even madara  respected him.


----------



## Black Sabbath II (May 16, 2010)

This shit is still open? God. Close this.

The only way Itachi can win this is with Susano'o and even that won't really help considering Raikage's reaction speed. He'll be swinging totsuka around blindly until Susano'o drains his life force and kills him. Or makes him blind like Sasuke which would result in a typical case of the Big black dude abusing the smaller blind dude.



I also love the fact that Raikage seems to be able to whack around giant Bijuu's with ease and did so on more than one occasion. That is the most epic thing I've ever seen. Raikage vs anything lower than 8 tails = Raikage rape now apparently.


----------



## Jinnobi (May 16, 2010)

> The only way Itachi can win this is with Susano'o and even that won't really help considering Raikage's reaction speed. He'll be swinging totsuka around blindly until Susano'o drains his life force and kills him.



Fanfic. Raikage is caught in Tsukiyomi/finger jutsu and OHKO'd by Totsuka.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 16, 2010)

A is more than fast enough to blitz Itachi with a Lariat before he even uses a genjutsu or any attack. And if by some chance Itachi avoids that, he can't track A when he starts moving faster than the Sharingan can follow. 

If Naruto can recognize and break out of the first level of Utakata (Itachi's finger ninjutsu), A should be able to shatter it before Itachi can counter. Hell, a speedblitz from A should hit Itachi's eyes, thus robbing him from using the Sharingan, Mangekyo Sharingan period. 

Yeah, healthy or sick, Itachi loses. A's speed and strength just outclass him too much. True Itachi has a 5 in speed, but it won't be enough against someone who can dodge Amaterasu.


----------



## Space Jam (May 16, 2010)

machiavelli2009 said:


> Itachi is better at ama and all MS jutsu



wtf? says WHO? Sasuke could manipulate the flames and put them out. Look at Enton: Kagutsuchi. Your talking out your ass, straight making shit up


----------



## Black Sabbath II (May 16, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Fanfic. Raikage is caught in Tsukiyomi/finger jutsu and OHKO'd by Totsuka.



Assuming Itachi could use both Tsukuyomi and Susano'o at the same time. And the finger genjutsu should be easy to break out of. Naruto only failed to do so because, by his own admission, he's horrible at genjutsu and countering genjutsu.

Raikage takes this, although with difficulty. It's just a bad match up for Itachi.


----------



## Sadgoob (May 16, 2010)

KumogakureRaikage said:


> Naruto only failed to do so because, by his own admission, he's horrible at genjutsu and countering genjutsu.



You're still speaking out your ass because that was Chunin Exam Naruto.


----------



## Lelouchprince3 (May 16, 2010)

Again raikage has no answer for tsukiyomi nor itachi's susano, hell he only manage to crack one of susano's ribs in its weakest state, its true raikage could dodge amatarasu but why should we even believe he will be able to fight after getting hit by tsukiyomi?


----------



## Black Sabbath II (May 16, 2010)

Selim said:


> You're still speaking out your ass because that was Chunin Exam Naruto.



Even AFTER the chuunin exam he said he was horrible at genjutsu. Look at the damned Jiraiya flash back. He needed Sakura and Chiyo's help to break out of the finger genjutsu. Read the manga again.


----------



## jakemooz (May 16, 2010)

Please don't call me biased, I can honestly say that I think the Sharingan is overrated. I am not an Itachi fanboy, but here are the reasons why I feel Itachi would beat the current Raikage.

Bloodlusted: This hurts the Raikage far more than Itachi. Bloodlusted is what the Raikage felt towards Sasuke and as we all saw, his fighting was sloppy.

He was careless and lost an arm just for the _chance_ to touch Sasuke.

Itachi meanwhile, is a calculating, intelligent fighter and bloodlust would mean that he isn't afraid to use his most powerful techniques right away.

Bloodlusted tends to give the intelligent person or someone who would normally conserve their stronger attacks an advantage. In this case, Itachi has the advantage.

150 meters: The Raikage is a taijutsu based fighter. This distance grants him no favors. Anyone who argues that Itachi is faster than the Raikage should immediately take in the fact that everything they say later probably has no merit. *The Raikage is in fact faster than Itachi. * _However_, Sasuke was able to somewhat keep up with the Raikage in that he didn't die instantly.

At the distance presented, there is simple no way Itachi (who has a 5 in speed and was able to match sasuke in speed) is going to get blitzed by the Raikage. Also this is healthy Itachi so we can assume he is a little faster (probably more but people will get mad). Sasuke has a speed in 4.5 Itachi has 5. The databook IS canon (Kishi wrote the thing) so arguing this would be pointless. Raikage doesn't start with the shroud and as it increases his ability to dodge Amaterasu, without it, he *might *be susceptible to it. However I will act like Amaterasu is useless. However consider this:

Itachi is healthy with perfect eyesight. He could probably focus on a non-raiton shrouded Raikage enough to burn him. BUT FORGET IT. Let's ignore this. 

tsukiyomi (I am so sorry for this horrible spelling) would kill Raikage. He has no genjutsu feats and it is said to be unbreakable except for another Sharingan. The only way he would counter this is by constantly moving and avoiding eye contact *which is possible*.

Susanoo simply no counters. The sword is too fast. (caught Orochimaru, a sannin, in between words... The raikage is not THAT much faster than orochimaru to continuously dodge it.

Lets say he can dodge it. Can he dodge katons which the hand seals are too fast for kakashi AND sasuke to notice, while dodging kage bunshins (possibly using feints?), while the real Itachi uses Amaterasu, and the sword of sealing at the same time? 

Probably not. He has no way to hurt Itachi and bloodlusted means he's going to go for the kill and get in range for tsukiyomi. Raikage loses.

Edit: Raikage punched through an incomplete version of Susanoo, don't compare that to Itachi's complete please.


----------



## Loltoomuch (May 16, 2010)

Itachi wins.


wasnt raikage bloodlusted against sasuke? we all saw how that went. the guys is hot-headed. make him bloodlusted and his intelligence drops near 0. he charged at sasuke's flames despite knowing he'd lose his arm. so with no knowledge on the totsuka's sword he is going to run in and get stabbed. 

he has shown no long range or even mid range jutsu. so to get the job done he will have to get upclose to itachi. raikage isnt going to be blitzing, as we've seen itachi has good enough reaction to activated susano faster than a lightning can strike him. 

ask danzo what happened last time he got close to susano. only this time it has a huge magical sword that seals you and a mirror.

edit: guy above said everything i meant in more details..


----------



## Jinnobi (May 17, 2010)

> A is more than fast enough to blitz Itachi with a Lariat before he even uses a genjutsu or any attack. And if by some chance Itachi avoids that, he can't track A when he starts moving faster than the Sharingan can follow.



Itachi can activate Susano'o faster than Kirin. Kirin is faster than Raikage.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2010)

Jinnobi said:


> Itachi can activate Susano'o faster than Kirin. Kirin is faster than Raikage.


Itachi had quite a while to _prepare_ for Kirin while Sasuke rambled on and on, you know that right?

OP, even if Itachi was healthy, he wouldn't get a 1 point Stat increase in his stamina. He's like Kurenai, Sakura, and Kakashi, he has naturally low stamina.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (May 17, 2010)

Didn't A once state that Genjutsu was useless against him? 

And what is this BS about Itachi having a better Amaterasu and Susano'o than Sasuke? Sasuke is at least Itachi's equal in using the MS. 

Sasuke's Susano'o = Itachi's Susano'o
Sasuke's Amaterasu > Itachi's Amaterasu
Itachi's Tsukuyomi > Sasuke's Tsukuyomi.


----------



## Vergil642 (May 17, 2010)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi had quite a while to _prepare_ for Kirin while Sasuke rambled on and on, you know that right?
> 
> OP, even if Itachi was healthy, he wouldn't get a 1 point Stat increase in his stamina. He's like Kurenai, Sakura, and Kakashi, he has naturally low stamina.



Yes, except we see in the page immediately prior to Kirin striking that Itachi doesn't use it. He only activated it as the lightning was striking/on the very verge of doing so.

Kakashi's stamina isn't actually that terrible also. He just happens to have really chakra intensive jutsu like Kamui, Raikiri and RKB.



Wind Master said:


> Didn't A once state that Genjutsu was useless against him?
> 
> And what is this BS about Itachi having a better Amaterasu and Susano'o than Sasuke? Sasuke is at least Itachi's equal in using the MS.
> 
> ...



Ei's statements aren't backed up by any feats. I'm also not sure if he did say that or if Sharingan in general was useless against him. If it's the latter he's obviously wrong as Sasuke used his Sharingan to land a Chidori. Pity he couldn't pierce that awesome Raiton Shroud much.

You're also clearly mistaken on the MS front as well. Sasuke's only just showed he can manifest a full Susanoo with the armour, he's yet to show off his ability to actually fight with it. Not that it matters as Itachi's still has the superior weaponry (which is a little unfair admittedly). Sasuke's Amaterasu isn't superior to Itachi's either. It's the same jutsu. Sasuke's Kagatsuchi is what's a big deal as it allows him to manipulate the flames and is _an entirely different jutsu_.

In other words, Sasuke's only MS advantage is that he's able to manipulate his Amaterasu's flames. Otherwise he remains inferior in every respect.


----------



## machiavelli2009 (May 17, 2010)

itachi wins for the simple reason that in tskuyomi he is omnipotent....
he can easily start this match with layered genjutsu then tskuyomi from there
raikage brute strength will only be used to hurt himself
sharingan genjutsu almost made deidara kill himself...im sure itachi can use tskuyomi to make the raikage attack himself....( in tskuyomi he can do as he pleases...kinda like kyoka suigetsu)
raikage, in fact no one except madara has a counter to itachi tskuyomi....
ama can be dodged as shown
lemme ask at the speed that raikage moves at...if he is to hit the yata mirror wont that send him flying back...like shinra tensei sent bunta and the frog army


----------



## IzanagiRikudo (May 21, 2010)

unhealthy Itachi could win, so healthy wins also. Best combo for Itachi in this fight is Tsukuyomi, followed by an Amaterasu, or maybe by a hit from Totsuka Blade. Also, Raikage's Lightning Shroud increases in time, and while its still incomplete, the Sharingan can keep up with it, as scene in his fight with Sasuke. During that time period, Itachi's speed would save him temporarily, and then he would use MS. Itachi's Susano'o would destroy Raikage, and its not slow either (He stabbed Oro before Oro even noticed it coming at him). Raikage would survive Tsukuyomi (probably), but he wouldn't be able to move fast enough to dodge Susano'o or Amaterasu.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 21, 2010)

Since the mindset is bloodlusted, that eliminates intelligence as a factor, which is really Itachi's only advantage over Raikage.

That said, Raikage is probably just going to keep dodging everything he uses with Shunshin no Jutsu. Since Itachi has significantly improved Stamina here, it will take a long time, Raikage will expend a lot of chakra himself, and there will always be the potential for Itachi to tag him *somehow*.

But overall, I have to give the majority-of-the-time victory to the guy who LOS-dodges Amaterasu.

It's still an incredibly close fight, though, and I think that if it were in-character, Itachi would win.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 21, 2010)

I wonder if Raikage would stand a chance against Itachi's Susano'o.


----------



## The Fool (Jun 21, 2010)

Itachi wins with moderate difficulty. Healthy Itachi would be almost impossible to beat.


----------



## biar (Jun 21, 2010)

Not enough feats from "Healthy Itachi", "healthy ItachI" is as hyped as "Prime Hiruzen"


----------



## Awesome (Jun 21, 2010)

Bloodlusted Itachi doesn't exist 

We have no idea how strong Itachi is going all out, so I'm going based off of the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Raikage can dodge Amaterasu and will stay away from Tsukiyomi. If Itachi tries Susanoo and uses to use the Sword of Totsuka Raikage can get behind him and attack him extremely fast.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 21, 2010)

Itachi^ said:


> Bloodlusted Itachi doesn't exist
> 
> We have no idea how strong Itachi is going all out, so I'm going based off of the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Raikage can dodge Amaterasu and will stay away from Tsukiyomi. If Itachi tries Susanoo and uses to use the Sword of Totsuka Raikage can get behind him and attack him extremely fast.



While I agree that A has the edge, Itachi's Susano'o is immensely durable, enough to not be shattered by A directly. Heck, I doubt that with his current feats, he can even break it directly, he might have to play stall against it or try breaking the Totsuka Sword instead so as to be safer.

And then some. Itachi's Totsuka Sword is pretty fast, too. It could cut through even A's Bijuu-powered Raiton no Yoroi, seeing as it's a Kusanagi Sword (the same thing which propelled KN4 flying several meters with force more than enough to pierce diamond) but wielded by a Susano'o with immense strength comparable to Sennin Modo, compared to Orochimaru's merely above-average strength. This was proven by it easily hacking down several heads of the Hydra with a few slashes. 

But then, it has to hit A. Something I doubt is possible unless Itachi temporarily deactivates it, and tries a kind of trap or something, luring A, and then re-activating Susano'o and slashing him with the sword.

But anyway, I give the match pretty much to A, 80/100.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 26, 2010)

Itachi^ said:


> Bloodlusted Itachi doesn't exist
> 
> We have no idea how strong Itachi is going all out, so I'm going based off of the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Raikage can dodge Amaterasu and will stay away from Tsukiyomi. If Itachi tries Susanoo and uses to use the Sword of Totsuka Raikage can get behind him and attack him extremely fast.


Bloodlusted Healthy Itachi 

Would Raikage be able to break through Susano'o? I mean a complete Susano'o?


----------



## Awesome (Jun 26, 2010)

I should have thought a bit more before I posted that. He doesn't really have anything to break a complete susanoo. He doesn't have the techniques to do so.


----------



## Deleted member 175252 (Jun 27, 2010)

raikage is undoubtably faster than itachi but not fast enough to blitz him. susanoo can beat raikage and so can his gen. remeber itachi's different types of gen vary alot, they can either be like a torturing one like when kakashi faced him or like when naruto faced him and can create realistic gen where people fall for it, so for now its tough to say


----------



## Kisame (Jun 27, 2010)

Susanoo Bones = Raikage V2
Full Susanoo + Spiritual Items > Raikage V2



Itachi Lolstomps


----------

