# Alucard (Hellsing) vs Ragna the Bloodedge



## Wu Tang Chessboxing (Aug 13, 2012)

This is Pre-Schrodinger Alucard
They start 50 meters apart
Fight takes place in a ruined city


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

Ragna should win this. 

Up to debate is, weather it's going to be very fast or after a very long fight


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

He might not have the stamina to kill Alucard so yeah.


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

Kurou said:


> He might not have the stamina to kill Alucard so yeah.



Assuming that Ragna's regular soul fuck wouldn't end Alucard's real soul.

And even so hacking them away at relativistic speeds should get the job done faster than one might suspect.


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

And you're pulling Relativistic speeds from where? The only characters in that range right now are Hakumen and Hazama

And you're assuming he's going to consume Alucards actual soul out of the many,many souls he has


yeah..


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## Qinglong (Aug 13, 2012)

He matched a semi serious Hazama with Azure Grimoire then beat him with IDEA Engine

I'm geussing that's where the relativistic Ragna is coming from


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

What the guy above me said. And a better question would be why would Ragna's soul fuck go for a soul that is not his target. And ignoring that, he would still be MHS and do the same.


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## Wu Tang Chessboxing (Aug 13, 2012)

Wait, I thought the 1/480,000 reaction feat only put Hazama at 2% SoL/Sub-relativistic speed.......


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

We have Relius do a feat like that, Ragana beat him and Hakumen lives on powerscaling.

But as i said MHS would do fine as well, so really no difference.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 13, 2012)

Wu Tang Chessboxing said:


> Wait, I thought the 1/480,000 reaction feat only put Hazama at 2% SoL/Sub-relativistic speed.......


IMO we need a proper calc for that

reaction time does not just magically translate into speed .. you need distance


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

AliceKumo said:


> What the guy above me said. And a better question would be why would Ragna's soul fuck go for a soul that is not his target. And ignoring that, he would still be MHS and do the same.



Except that wold require Ragna being able to actually tell the difference between Alucard's many souls. You're assuming he's going to magically know which one it is. Saying it's not going to go for a soul that isn't his target is mere speculation.


Alucard is MHS so that isn't saying much.



Qinglong said:


> He matched a semi serious Hazama with Azure Grimoire then beat him with IDEA Engine
> 
> I'm geussing that's where the relativistic Ragna is coming from



You mean a Hazama that basically threw the fight iirc. Yeah.


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## Ulti (Aug 13, 2012)

Alucard is MHS?


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

Rip's bullet was calced at mach 40. Alucard caught said bullet in his mouth. I'm skeptical about the validity of the calc but, as it's been around for a while (months now, possibly longer) and has even seemed to be excepted in a lot of matches..... 


Meh


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

That calc is debated... mach 40 is not MHS and Ragna is a lightning-timer if we ignore the relativistic shit.

Next point being why would Ragan soul-fuck a soul that is not Alucard's if his target IS Alucard?

But as i said before Ragna doesn't need to do that he'll just hack all of them down.


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

AliceKumo said:


> That calc is debated... mach 40 is not MHS and Ragna is a lightning-timer if we ignore the relativistic shit.



lol no

 Anything mach 30 and up is considered massively hypersonic, so unless shit has changed within the two months I've been banned, Alucard is MHS


And the lightning timing is speculation about his fight with Rachel. The only "proof" that's tangible for this claim was a manga who's canon is suspect iirc.


So no, not really.


and debated by who exactly? No one has contested it yet and again, it's actually been accepted in quite a few threads already.



> Next point being why would Ragan soul-fuck a soul that is not Alucard's if his target IS Alucard?




Because Alucard has many souls INSIDE of him. He doesn't keep them in a  jar. :/



So again Ragna doesn't know which one is his. You're acting like the souls have  name tags on them.



> Bu as i said before Ragna doesn't need to do that he'll just hack all of them down.






Not likely


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

Kurou said:


> lol no
> 
> Anything mach 30 and up is considered massively hypersonic, so unless shit has changed within the two months I've been banned, Alucard is MHS
> 
> ...



Really? Trying to get him down even from that? I never heared anyone having any problem with BB chars speed feats yet you bring it up. Last time i checked mach 50+ would be MHS, but it doesn't matter anway Ragna is still faster.

And i remember that calc being shot down on another forum but nevermind Ragna would still be faster.

And lol yes a "soul" is the very definition of a name tag, you can't tell me that Alucard's soul = random souls inside him.

And why is it unlikely for Ragna just to take all of them?


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

AliceKumo said:


> Really? Trying to get him down even from that?




Get him down from what?  He was always considered to possibly be a lightning timer. I guess at some point someone put him down as a concrete lightning timer for some reason. The reason for possibly was that he fought Rachel, but there was no real evidence for the case. Until the manga apparently which I never read.



> I never heared anyone having any problem with BB chars speed feats yet you bring it up.




I don't have a problem with anything, I'm clearing up a few misconceptions.



> but it doesn't matter anway Ragna is still faster.




Even if that were true (which I still doubt) by how much? care to give a concrete number or is it going to be more speculation?



> And i remember that calc being shot down on another forum but nevermind Ragna would still be faster.




Other forums =/= the OBD. Most other forums actually hate us for being meanies so yeah  see above



> And lol yes a "soul" is the very definition of a name tag, you can't tell me that Alucard's soul = random souls inside him.





So basically you've got nothing because again, you're just making assumptions.



> And why is it unlikely for Ragna just to take all of them?




When has he ever consumed more then one? Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a relativistic Ragna, but beating a 20% Hakumen while having to use all of his strength and defeating Hazama who probably didn't give two fucks isn't very strong evidence for the case imo.


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

Since when is lightning timer <<<<< mach 40? And from what i have seen no one ever said "possibly" everyone takes them as solid lightning timers so i don't see your point.

The dowfal of that calc seemed legit, but yeah i don't want to bring shit from elsewhere here anyway so...

And it's you who assumes that just because Alucard has many souls living inside of him (not his souls) he is resistant to soul fuck.

Ragna stay away from people because he passivly drains their soul... and not to forget that you assume that he can soul-fuck only once. The game suggest that each of his attacks drains his targest soul (supported by his claim) i don't see why he souldn't just repeat it till Alucard drops dead?


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

AliceKumo said:


> Since when is lightning timer <<<<< mach 40? And from what i have seen no one ever said "possibly" everyone takes them as solid lightning timers so i don't see your point.



Nope. It was either Willy or Zen who put him down as a lightning timer and seeing as Zen's a lazy friend it might have been Willy.


Actually, just checked, yeah it was willy who changed it from likely a lightning timer to just lightning timer and that was two months ago.




> And it's you who assumes that just because Alucard has many souls living inside of him (not his souls) he is resistant to soul fuck.




I never claimed resistance to soulfuck because that'd mean Ragna couldn't take a soul to begin with. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ragna can differentiate from the many souls Alucard has.



> Ragna stay away from people because he passivly drains their soul...



Life force



> and not to forget that you assume that he can soul-fuck only once.




Now.....find in any of my posts where I said this. 




> The game suggest that each of his attacks drains his targest soul (supported by his claim) i don't see why he souldn't just repeat it till Alucard drops dead?



By that logic he isn't even absorbing full souls since he's fought plenty of people and they're still alive. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.



If Ragna can lightning time he takes it. I just want more proof then beating Hazama (hah) and Hakumen (lol)


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## AliceKumo (Aug 13, 2012)

You just said "proof that he ever taken more than one soul." so yeah so much about that.

I don't get you his whole nickname is based on the fact that he soul-fucks and it's an ability of his. He hands around pople a couple of moments and it's obvious that it actually takes effect while he is fighting.

Since when would be life force any different?

Why is the burden of proof on me? Logic says that Ragna soul fucks the thing he hits, he nver had to find a soul or any shit like that. Why would Alucard be safe ofit just because he happens to have random souls inside of him?


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

AliceKumo said:


> You just said "proof that he ever taken more than one soul." so yeah so much about that.



More than one at a time. Did I seriously need to spell that out?


kids these days 

**



> I don't get you his whole nickname is based on the fact that he soul-fucks and it's an ability of his. He hands around pople a couple of moments and it's obvious that it actually takes effect while he is fighting.
> 
> Since when would be life force any different?





........seriously? wow. He doesn't take people souls. His weapon does. He got his name from his sword which is what drains lifeforce. But you're right, the game pretty much says their the same. (I.E. Life force and souls)



> Why is the burden of proof on me? Logic says that Ragna soul fucks the thing he hits, he nver had to find a soul or any shit like that.




Exactly the point, he's never fought someone with more than one soul inside of them, so he isn't just going to yank Alucard's soul out. You're trying to say he can take Alucards soul despite never having to fight someone like Alucard before.

EDIT: It also doesn't just soulfuck what ever it hits. It drains the soul. Considering he doesn't completely drain someone's soul in one hit, he isn't going to be taking all of Alucard's souls down anytime soon.




> Why would Alucard be safe ofit just because he happens to have random souls inside of him?






...........


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 13, 2012)

Kurou said:


> If *Ragna* can lightning time he takes it. I just want more proof then *beating Hazama (hah) and Hakumen (lol)*



Huh?

Those fights had Ragna survive by the skin of his teeth plus plot was on his side.

Hakumen was teleported and fucked off somewhere. A straight fight with him, Hakumen practically had Ragna's balls in a vice grip. Even in a straight fight with Nu he was utterly fucked, time and time, and time, and time again. Until he had Deus Ex Machina.

Same with Hazama, but a million times worse.


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

That's the point. His so called relativistic reactions come from fighting off Terumi, who wasn't fucking serious and Hakumen who's not even at a quarter of his full power.In both fights Ragna had to use his full power and even then didn't exactly win. Shit he neeed a boost from the idea engine to fight Hazama back. So you can't give Ragna reactions on par with them. Seriously, have you not been reading my earlier posts?



It's kind of why the Hah and lol are there.


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## zenieth (Aug 13, 2012)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> Huh?
> 
> Those fights had Ragna survive by the skin of his teeth plus plot was on his side.
> 
> ...



*HOLD ON RIGHT FUCKING HERE*

If there is anyone, who won their fight without PIS it was fucking Ragna against Terumi.


Plot was never on Ragna's Side for that fight

Ragna had to go up against Terumi knowing jack shit

Nobody fucking told him that the Azure wouldn't work

Or that his azure was fake

Or that teurmi could disable it

despite the guy making it obvious as hell on earth he wanted to kick the guy's ass.

So he goes in relying on the Azure

And don't come with that cryptic BS "Don't Mistake the Azure for your own." 

That aint advice

So he went into a fight with terumi

Went into a fight with terumi who proceeded to turn his Azure off

Crippling the ever loving shit out of him

On top of Terumi activating his own Azure

And still managed to hold his damn own against the guy

Do you know what it is to go from depth perception and Ambidextrous to fucking not.

All the Idea engine ever did was Turn Ragna's Azure right back on.


Ragna who was beaten to shit
Still only had a fake compared to Terumi's Real
Didn't have that useful as fuck Life Link (lol Nu)
Nor did he have a mind fucking Nox

and he still managed to scrap his ass back to gether and kick Terumi's ass so fucking hard, Relius was ragging on his crippled ass before killing Terumi to make him make up for *Terumi'*s fuck up



fucking plot on ragna's side. Shit aims to kick him in the ball cvery damn chance it gets


And ON FUCKING TOPIC:

Let's not count the Azure and it's ability to soul fuck like nobodies business. Or are we forgetting that Multicityblock Building terumi managed to soul steal from at once.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Aug 13, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5j1L8CdElI[/YOUTUBE]

Relevant Vid for Terumi Soul Steal just in case


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

zenieth said:


> Snip



That's the definition of plot being on his side since, he won a fight that he in no way in hell should have ever won. Despite everything being against him he still won.

Saying plot was on someones side doesn't always mean the hero/protag gets a random powerup/magicalfairy pixie dust whatever. Or that someone comes from out of nowhere and saves him (which did actually happen any damn way)



> And ON FUCKING TOPIC:
> 
> Let's not count the Azure and it's ability to soul fuck like nobodies business. Or are we forgetting that Multicityblock Building terumi managed to soul steal from at once.




You mean when he used the cauldron. Yeah. Ragna doesn't walk around with a cauldron


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## zenieth (Aug 13, 2012)

Boy now where could Ragna get a cauldron...


where oh where?

Oh that's right Blazblue is a cauldron

Fake and real.

And my point is that plot gave ragna no bonuses, it's the same plot that brought ragna to cripple mode. Meaning there's no PIS in normal ragna, the not cripple guy, kicking Terumi's ass.

You're calling PIS on something that retracted PIS.


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

zenieth said:


> Boy now where could Ragna get a cauldron...
> 
> 
> where oh where?
> ...




I never called PIS. It was plot device. Seriously the shit was reminiscent of your typical shounen grand finale. 



Just to make it clear, PIS is plot induced stupidity which causes a character to act differently than they normally would.


And are you seriously comparing Ragna's grimoire to Hazama's? Because it sounds like that's what you're doing.


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## zenieth (Aug 13, 2012)

He kicked his ass with it, so yeah I am.

edit: Wait lemme be exact

He kicked his ass with it
after getting beat down as a cripple
and taking it on while also facing Terumi's Nox

I'd say that's a damn good fake.


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## Kurou (Aug 13, 2012)

A fake that was boosted by the idea engine and the true Azure


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Aug 13, 2012)

Kurou said:


> That's the definition of plot being on his side since, he won a fight that he in no way in hell should have ever won. Despite everything being against him he still won.
> 
> Saying plot was on someones side doesn't always mean the hero/protag gets a random powerup/magicalfairy pixie dust whatever. Or that someone comes from out of nowhere and saves him (which did actually happen any damn way)



Ragna would transform into Emiya Shiro if that happened.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

Which one?


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## AliceKumo (Aug 14, 2012)

Oh god i hate when stuff gets complicated. 

Anyway... he would be UBW Shriou, not as badass as HF Shriou and not as lame as Fate Shirou. 

Back on topic: Ragna's weapon soulfucks (it's actually him and Blood Scythe has no effects, well actually it would be the AG doing that job, right?) and he fast enough to hack Alucard at superior speeds. And you can't tell me that Alucard's fodder souls will take more than one hit. And on top of that, Ragna actually benefits from the souls he absorbs he won't tier anytime soon.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Kurou said:


> A fake that was boosted by the idea engine and the true Azure



1st. we don't know what it does, but even then. He still has it so moot point, it's now better than Terumi's
2nd. Lolnope or would you prefer I say shit that's don't make sense either, like Hakumen wishes he could go back to being Ragna obsessed Jin. Cause that makes as much sense as saying the True azure did anything at fucking all For ragna, considering at the time it's user was a beam spam doll.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

And I'm tired of everyone saying Hazama threw that fight when his discussion with relius in the true ending showed in everyway that is was 100% Terumi fucking up.

I mean do you understand how unbelievably convolutedly stupid as fuck a story's plot would have to be to make a gambit like that make shit worth of sense.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 14, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]NKIF91ehyoA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Ulti (Aug 14, 2012)

> Rip's bullet was calced at mach 40. Alucard caught said bullet in his mouth. I'm skeptical about the validity of the calc but, as it's been around for a while (months now, possibly longer) and has even seemed to be excepted in a lot of matches.....



MHS starts at mach 100 by certain OBD standards  that is pretty fucking fast and I don't recall how fast Ragna is so meh.

Alucard also has an impressive feat of moving that aircraft carrier at a certain speed which would still require a fuckton of telekinetic power.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

zenieth said:


> 1st. we don't know what it does, but even then. He still has it so moot point, it's now better than Terumi's



Buecause it allowed him acess to the true Azure, not because it was better.



> Lolnope or would you prefer I say shit that's don't make sense either, like Hakumen wishes he could go back to being Ragna obsessed Jin. Cause that makes as much sense as saying the True azure did anything at fucking all For ragna, considering at the time it's user was a beam spam doll.



Lol what, considering it boosted his power enough to "defeat" Terumi how did it do nothing? Seriously, you actually compared Ragna to that useless bitch Noel. Kind of a low blow.





zenieth said:


> And I'm tired of everyone saying Hazama threw that fight when his discussion with relius in the true ending showed in everyway that is was 100% Terumi fucking up.
> 
> I mean do you understand how unbelievably convolutedly stupid as fuck a story's plot would have to be to make a gambit like that make shit worth of sense.



Blazblue story is already fucking stupid and convoluted as fuck

And it's not like Hazama got right back up after that like it was nothing.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Kurou said:


> Buecause it allowed him acess to the true Azure, not because it was better.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol what, considering it boosted his power enough to "defeat" Terumi how did it do nothing? Seriously, you actually compared Ragna to that useless bitch Noel. Kind of a low blow.



It didn't let him access any true azure, no side material or in game text references him taking the True Azure. All that scene showed was him turning his back on.

2. Because he never fought Terumi one on one to begin with. The ragna that Terumi fought was a cripple. The only thing we know for a fact is that Idea Engine turned Ragna's Azure back on.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

zenieth said:


> It didn't let him access any true azure, no side material or in game text references him taking the True Azure. All that scene showed was him turning his back on.




And then saying witness the true power of the Azure. Seriously, if it was just reactivating his fake it still would have been no better than Terumi's considering he made the damn things.



> Because he never fought Terumi one on one to begin with. The ragna that Terumi fought was a cripple.


Which just goes to show again, why Terumi wasn't taking the shit that seriously.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Kurou said:


> And then saying witness the true power of the Azure. Seriously, if it was just reactivating his fake it still would have been no better than Terumi's considering he made the damn things.



And how would he know the difference exactly? Ragna was just informed a few days ago that his shit was fake and just got the Idea Engine, he didn't even fucking know how it works. Occams razor is what takes precedence here. And precedence says it was still his bootleg version.



> Which just goes to show again, why Terumi wasn't taking the shit that seriously.



Why he wasn't taking the fight against Cripple ragna seriously. Idea Engine is a whole other damn story.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

zenieth said:


> And how would he know the difference exactly? Ragna was just informed a few days ago that his shit was fake and just got the Idea Engine, he didn't even fucking know how it works. Occams razor is what takes precedence here. And precedence says it was still his bootleg version.




>Says he didn't know how to use it
>Engages it a few moments after receiving it



Sorry what? Saying he didn't know how it works would mean he wouldn't have even known how to activate it.


You're also assuming that his fake would be more powerful the the one the current creator of the shit has.





> Why he wasn't taking the fight against Cripple ragna seriously. Idea Engine is a whole other damn story.




Considering he knew Ragna couldn't actually kill him in general no, no it isn't.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Relius' Arcade mode points to the exact opposite.

And fakes surpass the real deals all the god damn time

welcome to Fiction 101


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

Fiction 101 would support the idea that Terumi threw the fight. So yeah.


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Cept you know we were told he didn't.

Either way, point is, ragna's going to be doing a lot of fucking soul stealing.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Aug 14, 2012)

damn, I am getting BB spoilers in this thread =/


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## Nevermind (Aug 14, 2012)

Regarding the bullet, how long did Alucard know it was coming?


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## AliceKumo (Aug 14, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Regarding the bullet, how long did Alucard know it was coming?



He was hit by it a couple of times before he caught it.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

Nevermind said:


> Regarding the bullet, how long did Alucard know it was coming?



The bullet has a mind of it's own and doesn't exactly travel in a straight line.

He let himself get hit by it a bunch because it couldn't actually kill him. (letting himself get fucked up is kind of his shtick since again, no one actually had the means to kill him)


Then as soon as he went srz bzn he caught it in his mouth. Then killed her.


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## Kurou (Aug 14, 2012)

zenieth said:


> Cept you know we were told he didn't.




Being hazed by Relius =/= being told he wasn't.



> Either way, point is, ragna's going to be doing a lot of fucking soul stealing.




Nope

tryagain.jpg


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## Nevermind (Aug 14, 2012)

Kurou said:


> The bullet has a mind of it's own and doesn't exactly travel in a straight line.



If it doesn't even travel in a straight line how can we get any speed from it at all? If it changes direction there's no way of knowing if it was moving at the same speed it was when it was shot or not.

Though if he only saw it basically in front of him I suppose it's a valid reaction feat but the description just seems quirky.


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## Ulti (Aug 14, 2012)

i linked the calc above


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## zenieth (Aug 14, 2012)

Kurou said:


> Being hazed by Relius =/= being told he wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And why the fuck wouldn't ragna be soul stealing?


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## Nevermind (Aug 14, 2012)

Ah, I see.

Yeah, looks somewhat reasonable..


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## Tranquil Fury (Aug 14, 2012)

Ragna can curb Alucard with one life but Alucard has a million+ lives and I recall he could regenerate from blood. Unless Ragna's hits take that many lives per hit, he's not going to finish the job without tiring. Ragna can't tell the difference between Alucard's soul and the millions of others inside him, it's a 1/million chance unless Ragna can distinguish and pick out Alucard's soul. Alucard has a bullet that tag jets but it may not be enough to tag Ragna. 

Other than that Alucard is a punching bag.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Aug 15, 2012)

Don't hits with ranga's sword restore life anyway, so on top of the soul stealing it would heal.


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