# Ryner Lute vs Madara Uchiha



## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Ryner has Solver of All Equations. 

Madara has been revived by Obito but is not Juubi Jin. 

Bloodlusted. 

Which is the stronger eye? Rinnegan or the Solver's rainbow colored teardrop eyes?

Who wins?


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## Vicotex (Mar 17, 2014)

Madara rapes


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Madara rapes



Why? Ryner's pretty hax too. Infact, he's even had universal level hax. Althought he best feat is still wiping out a million soldiers.


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## Vicotex (Mar 17, 2014)

^Madara chakra rod is hax as fuck


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> ^Madara chakra rod is hax as fuck



Hm. Ryner can terminate existence of beings that belong in multiple dimensions. More hax than that?


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 17, 2014)

Ryner rapes. He even nullified the comb relic, that nullified other hero relics.
That combs hax feats shit on madara's chakra rods.

His eyes also destroy the rinnegan in might. He is a reality warper and the source of his strength is a being that terrified the three goddesses which  created his whole universe. He also possesses magical instant shields.

So this Madara stands no chance at all.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 17, 2014)

his speed and durability ?


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 17, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> his speed and durability ?



Hard to say. The version here more or less stands still, while everything that bothers him gets instantly erased from reality.

So getting hit or moving wasn't really a necessity for him. Outside that form, while still impressive he goes from god tier to mid/high tier, so that train of thought leads nowhere. 

I found a thread where his put up against Accelarator  and seems to be winning, though. If it helps



Edit:
found clips showing his berserk form, where he has no control. He is only using an insignificant percentage of his true power here, unlike the version used here which can use its full extent and remain in control. Both clips are before huge power ups.
He also has teleportation  and dimensional travel( can enter the spirit realm whenever he wants.) Plus he is intangible according to the other thread vs Gilgamesh.

[YOUTUBE]d8NgPddoPkQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]1swe2sIvapw[/YOUTUBE]


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Plus he is intangible according to the other thread vs Gilgamesh.



Not sure about the intangible part. He seems to exist in both physical and spiritual planes at the same time. Well, the baka-tsuki translation says the spiritual plane is an alternate world Ryner created to safely use his attacks without causing alot of damage in the real world. Then alpha decided to fuck shit up and make the physical world overlap with the one Ryner created. Then Ryner thinks 'well, fuck that' and proceeds to wipe alpha, a being the covered the sky as far as they could see. But then, the blast was a lil too powerful and wiped out a million more soldiers and then nullified a blast that could wipe out a million by itself. Oh, all the while, he seemed to be getting eaten bit by bit by goddesses in an entirely different dimension. But, once the rape fest was over, Ryner decided to give them some attention and looked at one to say 'disappear'. It disappeared from existence itself. Then the rest ran away with their tails between their tails. Thats pretty much what happened. There's no mention about intangibility. Just that he can exist in a lot of dimensions at the same time. 

Just for reference, Goddesses are apparently one of the creators of LOLH multiverse and are leagues above Lucille Eris, who is omni-present and incorporeal.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 17, 2014)

That is even better than intangibility. It makes it similar to dark Schneider, who needs to be destroyed on multiple dimensions in order to be effective..


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## Tir (Mar 17, 2014)

lol..the wank in this thread is painful. 

best feat for the comb? 

Ryner is great in his verse but compared to HST top-tiers, he's still below them. 

Just so you know, Priests are more powerful than the goddesses who are the equal to Ryner Eris Reed (Lonesome Demon) and Asruld Roland (Mad Black Hero). Saying goddesses as universal level is just too much. 
Priests are the true monsters of Densetsu Yuusha verse.

Lucille omnipresent? he's omnipresent only in Roland's territory. Out of it, he's got no power whatsoever. Heck even with the Weaver of Equation power, he couldnt stand a chance agaisnt a true goddess, and weaver of equation = solver of equation. 

A litlle bit fact for you guys, its been stated that Milk's bodyguard, the ever smiling man, can kill Sion who was also in another dimension when confronting Milk's true form, goddess of whatever. You dont need to kill Ryner in multiple dimensions. 

Goddeses are above Lucille, yes. But only the true goddesses. the goddeses that attacked Ryner was nowhere near the level of Milk's true form. 
So, Ryner being able to told off the goddess doesnt mean he was universal level or shit that you guys been saying.

Funny thing is, lieral was able to destroy Ryner Eris Reed and split him. Universe level Lieral? BS. 

Reality warper? what part of him is reality warper? seriously. 

lastly, being able to kill millions (im sure it was thousands though) means jackshit really.


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## Ramius (Mar 17, 2014)

^ Basically this.

"Hundreds.
Thousands.
Tens of thousands.
Hundreds of thousands.
An unbelievable amount of humans were erased by the light and turned into sand.

Nothing that resembled a human figure could be seen.
_More than a million people were erased_, but the plains merely stretched on as if nothing had happened."

It's more than a million. But I'm unsure whether it's vaporization or pulverization. It could be that he transmutes their flesh into sand. It should be at least small city level if we take into account their armours and the fact that this is still a side effect only.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 17, 2014)

Tir said:


> lol..the wank in this thread is painful.
> 
> best feat for the comb?
> 
> ...



What would you call erasing someones existence from reality? Its not like we were saying he could bend all of reality to his whims, just that aspect.

And you dodged the main question. Do you think he wins or not?


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Tir said:


> lol..the wank in this thread is painful.
> 
> best feat for the comb?
> 
> ...


Well, the info I have on LN is based on Baka Tsuki translations. Dunno how accurate it is. 
Lucille's omnipresence expands with the expanding of Roland's territory. If Roland can conquer the whole universe, well, you know. 

I'm not sure about Lieral destroying Ryner Eris Reed. It could very well have been similar to how Minato split and sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto. Unless you have proof to say otherwise.  

As for the reality warping claim, this should give it some credibility; 

He said, and grabbed one of the Goddesses that was tearing into him.
"Disappear."
And it was done.
-


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## Ramius (Mar 17, 2014)

> Lucille's omnipresence expands with the expanding of Roland's territory._ If Roland can conquer the whole universe, well, you know. _



This is the funniest thing I've read today.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Ramius said:


> This is the funniest thing I've read today.



Well, you can't say its absurd. Or on second thought, maybe. I think I'd better replace the universe part with world.


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## Tir (Mar 17, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> What would you call erasing someones existence from reality? Its not like we were saying he could bend all of reality to his whims, just that aspect.
> 
> And you dodged the main question. Do you think he wins or not?


TBB can also erase someone's existence from reality you know. 

Madara owns him. Hard




deiger1111 said:


> Well, the info I have on LN is based on Baka Tsuki translations. Dunno how accurate it is.
> Lucille's omnipresence expands with the expanding of Roland's territory. If Roland can conquer the whole universe, well, you know.
> 
> This is true, but he's not omnipresence outside of Roland. not that it changes anything here.
> ...


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## Iwandesu (Mar 17, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> Well, the info I have on LN is based on Baka Tsuki translations. Dunno how accurate it is.
> Lucille's omnipresence expands with the expanding of Roland's territory. If Roland can conquer the whole universe, well, you know.
> 
> I'm not sure about Lieral destroying Ryner Eris Reed. It could very well have been similar to how Minato split and sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto. Unless you have proof to say otherwise.
> ...


Okay, so he is a low tier reality Warper and has city level dc. 
Is he fast enough to tell madara to dissapear ? (Mach 350 should be faster than what i recall for him.)
More important. Can he make a country level character dissapear ? beating accel-kun means nothing when any reality Warper with 2 digits can do so.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

Tir said:


> TBB can also erase someone's existence from reality you know.
> 
> Madara owns him. Hard
> 
> ...


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## Iwandesu (Mar 17, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> Mach 350? Thats new. Well, he's not in the physical plane of existence. What do you do?
> If thats NLF, what would you say about a match with speed equalized?
> 
> He's got the power to destroy the world. Won't you say he has the power to destroy someone with country level DC? Though this is more hax than feat.
> ...


Well, I recall a calc with low-mid 3 digit hypersonic 
Regarding the text. The godness were much more of plainly hax than amazing dc. 
Being able to " twist the rational of this world" is at the highest end a planet threat reality Warper.
going by feats any City level + Reality Warper would be enough for most of the godness .


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## deiger1111 (Mar 17, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> deiger1111 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I recall a calc with low-mid 3 digit hypersonic
> ...


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## Iwandesu (Mar 17, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> iwandesu said:
> 
> 
> > IIRC, the calc with three digit mach was for TBB which was then used for gauging Hashirama's reactions. But, this is Madara after he's been revived by Obito but before the he became Juubi Jin. No TBB.
> ...


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 17, 2014)

Ryner doesn't care about durability,he erases from existence things,he does this in berserk and SoAE,the atack that pulverized the whole army was an atack that also Wiped a if i remember clearly a godness that is also intagible,also going by Lucile and Lieral ryner is also intagible,no point discussing about it anymore,in the Accelerator thread it was agreed he was intagible now this?


And its not trasmutation since he analyse the concept of existence from the things and erase it,so yeah.

And yeah,go ahead durability will not help madara,and his speed not gonna help too.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 17, 2014)

lokoxDZz said:


> Ryner doesn't care about durability,he erases from existence things,he does this in berserk and SoAE,the atack that pulverized the whole army was an atack that also Wiped a if i remember clearly a godness that is also intagible,also going by Lucile and Lieral ryner is also intagible,no point discussing about it anymore,in the Accelerator thread it was agreed he was intagible now this?
> And its not trasmutation since he analyse the concept of existence from the things and erase it,so yeah.
> And yeah,go ahead durability will not help madara,and his speed not gonna help too.


Madara has a decent soul fuck. 
Accel-kun weakeness is reality Warper. No point in bringing this thread up. 
How much of conceptual he is ? (You mean like a soul? or is him a  real astral being ?) 
If the latter why you wanted to gave madara such a rape, op ?


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 17, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Madara has a decent soul fuck.
> Accel-kun weakeness is reality Warper. No point in bringing this thread up.
> How much of conceptual he is ? (You mean like a soul? or is him a  real astral being ?)
> If the latter why you wanted to gave madara such a rape ?



Soulfuck and mindfuck in madara level are not going to help... Since ryner  had alpha inside his head and most of godness usually does a soulfuck or a mindrape of somekind including soul possesion and mind control...

Densetsu suffer from the lack of feats from durability and speed(because lolerasing existence why show up more durability or dc? and lol instant atack speed)


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## Tir (Mar 17, 2014)

deiger1111;50120242
First of all said:
			
		

> creators of universe couldn't fathom. [/B]


No, priests are aware of the Lonely Demon and Mad Black Hero. They are the true mastermind behind all the events. They set it in stone and that's what Lieral changed.



> I mean, going by the assumption that Lieral destroyed Ryner Eris Reed, he should clearly be above Lucille. But he compared himself to Lucille several times and could not take him on that time he came to Roland, resulting in him resorting to a hero's relic.


Yes, Lieral is indeed above Lucille.



> _'Your life will end here once. And an endless fight will begin. Until you attain your hero...until you attain real love, you'll never know fulfillment. You'll be driven to madness by your hunger, and you'll writhe with the desire to devour all demons, all gods, all humans...and more importantly, the sister that you hold so dear. I don't care if you devoured her. Your hunger won't disappear by just devouring your sister, but you can go ahead and devour her anyways. That's none of my business. But you seem kind, so you'll suffer. Oh, how pitiful. But, well, that's life...so keep walking as far as you can. Don't worry, just keep walking. If you stopped, then I'll kill you immediately.'_





> _'It's no use, Lucile. You're still in the shallows. Whatever you do in this state won't reach me...unless you come deeper, deeper into the bottom of this darkness where your cries won't reach anyone...'_
> 
> Those were his words.
> 
> ...



These passages should be more than enough to show that Lieral is indeed above Lucille. 




> And, I don't understand the whole analogy about God Devourer. That sucker only serves to separate the solver from Ryner. Thats a clear parallel with Minato leaving key for Kyuubi's seal to Naruto. And I'm pretty certain Minato can't destroy the Kyuubi.



No, God Devourer is the power that Lucille use to devour Eris Reed (The Weaver of Equations). You know who bestowed that power to Lucille? Lieral.  




> What he can or cannot do to alpha is not of concern here. All I did was prove that Ryner can reality warp.


A very limited one. Certainly not enough to overcome Madara. 




> Well, he's not in the physical plane of existence.


This is bullshit. 



> He's got the power to destroy the world. Won't you say he has the power to destroy someone with country level DC? Though this is more hax than feat.


No, he doesn't. What makes you think that? 



> 'The Goddesses had said that.
> But he only needed this, to Vois it was enough.
> The existence that even the Goddesses were unable to fathom.


That doesn't change a thing. 



> That thing, that seemed to control all Reason in this world that the Goddesses were unable to understand.


You're talking about the Priests here. They control the verse. Only lieral has shown to be able to oppose them. 




> The Solver of All Equations and the Weaver of All Equations.


Ryner = Solver
Lucille = Weaver



> Things that could easily twist the rational of this world.'


The rational of the world is changed because of lieral's action. Ever wonder why he was stated to be the one to destroy the world? That's because he went and disrupted the priests' scenario.



> Soulfuck and mindfuck in madara level are not going to help... Since ryner had alpha inside his head and most of godness usually does a soulfuck or a mindrape of somekind including soul possesion and mind control...


The hell? What's with ALpha being in Ryner's head would do to Madara's soulfuck? 
Goddess does souldfuck, indeed, but it mostly works in fodders. Madara controlled the fucking Juubi.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 18, 2014)

Tir said:


> No, priests are aware of the Lonely Demon and Mad Black Hero. They are the true mastermind behind all the events. They set it in stone and that's what Lieral changed.
> 
> 
> Yes, Lieral is indeed above Lucille.
> ...


Can you link me to the translations that mention the priests and the one where they see Milk's true form? I'm afraid I skipped some parts where they seemed to be babbling incomprehensible BS. 

Even if it wasn't the true goddess that  Ryner reality warped, it was still an inter-dimensional being. You can't scale Madara's power to that of something like that. Not saying Madara is below the fake goddess, just that you can't necessarily say Ryner's reality warping is a weak or limited one based on the info at hand. 

The part about Ryner not existing in physical plane wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Don't take phrases out of context please. 

I know Ryner=Solve and Lucille=Weaver. 

I concede, Lieral might be above Lucille. But, then again, that doesn't necessarily prove Lieral>Ryner Eris Reed. The God Devourer talisman Lieral gave to Ferris was meant to separate Solver from Ryner. 

Regardless, the version of Madara here has no >human durability feats without susanoo. Hand got pierced by Sasuke's sword. The question is whether Ryner can erase susanoo or get past it.. I think he can. There is a lack of quantifiable feats though. But he did completely erase alpha that was the same size as a being that completely covered the sky. Should be above Juubi in sheer size. And susanoo itself doesn't have any significant durability or defense against loliwpiedyoufromexistence powers. It did get its ass handed to it by Dust release which destroys on sub atomic level. Completely erase from existence>sub-atomic. I think. And none of the Naruto characters have shown any resistance to reality warping of any sort. The only similar things I know of in NV is Izanagi and creation of all things.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 18, 2014)

Tir said:


> The hell? What's with ALpha being in Ryner's head would do to Madara's soulfuck?
> Goddess does souldfuck, indeed, but it mostly works in fodders. Madara controlled the fucking Juubi.



Whats the best Soulfuck feat from narutoverse against soulfucking atacks? even from fodders?


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> IIRC, the calc with three digit mach was for TBB which was then used for gauging Hashirama's reactions. But, this is Madara after he's been revived by Obito but before the he became Juubi Jin. No TBB.



every form of Madara gets that speed.he is atleast that fast.also how fast is Ryner lute?


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## deiger1111 (Mar 18, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> every form of Madara gets that speed.he is atleast that fast.also how fast is Ryner lute?



Are you trying to say that a calc for a TBB's speed applies to Madara? As in, he's 3-digit mach on foot? Sure. Groundbreaking logic indeed.  

Going by feats ,Ryner is at best high-end supersonic. Though he doesn't exactly have a need for speed given the nature of his abilities.


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> Are you trying to say that a calc for a TBB's speed applies to Madara? As in, he's 3-digit mach on foot? Sure. Groundbreaking logic indeed.
> 
> Going by feats ,Ryner is at best high-end supersonic. Though he doesn't exactly have a need for speed given the nature of his abilities.



yeah Hashirama out speeds the bijuu bomb,Madara outspeeds Hashirama.so Madara is faster than bijuu bomb.Ryner gets blitz and dies before he can react.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 18, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> yeah Hashirama out speeds the bijuu bomb,Madara outspeeds Hashirama.so Madara is faster than bijuu bomb.Ryner gets blitz and dies before he can react.



Reacting to a biju dama and changing its trajectory by using rashomon gates is outspeeding it. Totally plausible. So logical, even Chuck Norris won't be able defy it.


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> Yeah, sure. Reacting to a biju dama and changing its trajectory by using rashomon gates is outspeeding it. Totally plausible. So logical, even Chuck Norris won't be able defy it.



yeah,genius,when you're able to react or dodge attacks from close range like that,you're atleast as fast or faster than that attack.also Hashirama cought kyuubi's bijuu bomb like a tennis ball earlier in that fight.and there are other HS+ and MHS+ feats as well.a genius like you should have lurked more before making threads.


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## Shiorin (Mar 18, 2014)

Would you rather have a gun, or be faster than a bullet?


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

Shiorin said:


> Would you rather have a gun, or be faster than a bullet?



reaction speed is must,you can't fight without it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

> Reacting to a biju dama and changing its trajectory by using rashomon gates is outspeeding it. Totally plausible. So logical, even Chuck Norris won't be able defy it.


considering he first covered some several dozen meters (with the flying BB already being behind him) before he summoned the gates on the ground and the BB covered less distance in the same timeframe - yes, Hashirama outsped it by a large margin


in fact, that feat was calced to   and that was base Hashi .. Madara also outsped the wood golems hand from close range and said hand is at least as fast as Kyuubis BB

Madara at his strongest (pre-jin) is > SM Hashi who is > base Hashi

Juubi-jin Madara is >>>> pre-jin Madara .. although I think Juubi-jin version has been banned here






> Regardless, the version of Madara here has no >human durability feats without susanoo.


if he has SM then he has the durability to survive a beatdown from all 9 bijuu .. but if SM is also banned, then, no .. though he'd have superhuman durability (not too high though) just from powerscaling obviously


though I don't see why he even has to move to attack .. he can summon his forest to attack (also has sleeping pollen if that is relevant), as well as PS swing spam

also this :








and didn't Tir and Ramius explain that it wasn't reality warping ?


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## Shiorin (Mar 18, 2014)

With SoAE it is an existence-fuck, but OP doesn't ban SM Madz who greatly outspeeds.


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## Ramius (Mar 18, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> and didn't Tir and Ramius explain that it wasn't reality warping ?



It *is* reality warping. Eh, I don't know why I bother anymore, but okay.

This is what it does:
*Spoiler*: __ 






> For example, Ryner's eyes—the Alpha Stigma had the ability to immediately understand the structure of all magic, copy it, and cancel it out.





> The crimson red pentacles appeared in Ryner’s eyes, and the men who saw them looked like they were dragged into an endless darkness. These eyes can see through any magic from the structure to the phenomenon, analyze them and take them as their own.





> Ryner stared at the glowing magic again and tried to analyze its structure, strength, specialties and range of effect.





> At that instant, the power, structure, and the invocation method of the spell the man was casting, were all read in by Ryner’s eyes, and he promptly deployed the corresponding spell cancellation magic.
> 
> Just a moment ago, he was, without a doubt, in the process of inscribing the magic symbol, and not only was the structure of his magic being deciphered quickly, a spell cancel was thrown at him, changing the structure of his inscription, for such a thing to happen, what kind of monster......






But it's also subject to abuse. For instance here it's clearly implied that he can't do that with absolutely anything.


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Even though Ryner’s Alpha Stigma can analyze magic completely, he couldn’t do much against a spell that had little to no counters.
> And if he took it head on, Ryner would be burnt to a crisp in an instant.
> He couldn’t neither escape nor defend.
> Additionally, Quont’s casting speed was about the same as that of Ryner’s.
> ...





> That was a spell from Roland.
> However, Lieral didn't recite the incantation.
> He didn't draw the magic circle.
> Nevertheless, even though he only said one word, the magic activated.
> Ryner's eyes looked at that structure. Looking at it, it wasn't something he could imitate at all.






On the other side, I found this



> Looking at that, Ryner trembled.
> "...... you're kidding me."
> Murmuring that, Ryner trembled.
> That light gradually enlarged as it gathered the surrounding power.
> ...



Should be easily scalable to Solver of All Equations Ryner.

The problem is: to create that beam that killed 1 million soldiers as a side-effect required Ryner to sacrifice someone. Though he can still analyse everything and cancel out other skills, just can't produce AoE shit.

Also, the best feats in the series, DC-wise are just mountain level and that's a big deal. Ignoring Priests, Goddesses and other top tiers. There's a dude that has to sacrifice his eye or leg or arm or whatever just to get the power to launch a possibly mountain level beam and that's considered a big deal.

Even when multiple experienced magicians gather up, they destroy a small inn at best.

To add, I personally do consider his ability hax of all sorts, but I'm not aware of what Narutoverse has to offer, so I don't want to jump to conclusions. Capping it at town-city level should be fine, but it still "erases" existence. You could argue that it can erase a human body no matter what durability the opponent has, as long as he isn't a deity of all sorts. Now if some fuckers were kind enough to post more quotes regarding the ability and its limitations like I did, this thread would be much better.

And as I said - speed is easily faster than eye + multipliers. I remember there was a feat when Ryner blitzed 5-6 soldiers before those could react or understand what the fuck is happening at all. He landed couple of hits on each and they were at least some sort of distance apart from each other. That could be supersonic.

There's the problem with his durability as well. Now, regarding him being incorporeal and all, I'm not so sure anymore. I tried to search for it, but the only truly incorporeal people in the series are Lieral and Lucile and I'm pretty sure it doesn't scale to Ryner out of nowhere. Though I might have missed the quote.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

ok, I misunderstood then


tbh I skipped most walls of text in this thread  just remembered mention of quantifying how energetic shit was and "true" RWing doesn't really bother with that sort of thing


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## Shiorin (Mar 18, 2014)

His Alpha Stigma eyes aren't the same as his SoAE eyes. Only the latter has existence fuckery. The former is basically Sharingan - Quont outsped him and Lieral's spell had no components to analyze.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

though I think the term _reality warping_ gets thrown around too much too freely these days, IMO that is only for the real high-end guys/cosmics and such


otherwise call it what it is exactly - in this case seems to be "analysis, spell cancellation magic" etc.

whatever, you guys sort it out, I still don't even know which series the guy is from

I'll stick to Nardo shit


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## Ramius (Mar 18, 2014)

Flutter, that's for his Alpha Stigma.  The "analysis, spell cancellation". I quoted those because they still apply to SoAE as well and it's pretty impressive. It's basically just like Shiorin says.

But this


> That was a spell from Roland.
> However, Lieral didn't recite the incantation.
> He didn't draw the magic circle.
> Nevertheless, even though he only said one word, the magic activated.
> Ryner's eyes looked at that structure. Looking at it, it wasn't something he could imitate at all.



Happened after Ryner got his SoAE eyes. Pretty sure of that. Then again, Lieral is a monster.

I'm not up to date with the series, I read a big chunk of it 1 year ago, so I'm not the expert. I just went ahead and searched for the quotes just like I remembered them.
I've already said to wait for Huntring or somebody who's up to date. Seems like Tiir and Shiorin are, so I'd listen to them.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

> But this Happened after Ryner got his SoAE eyes


I have no idea what this means 


it says he couldn't imitate some shit .. isn't that a bad thing for him feat-wise ?


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## Ramius (Mar 18, 2014)

cbf to explain this. It's a pretty long story.


Yes, he couldn't imitate some shit, because it had a composition he couldn't analyze. It's not that the spell is obligatorily strong, it's just..I give up, let others argue. I have to explain too much shit and I don't feel like doing it. May be later, in the evening.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

> I don't feel like doing it


that's the right attitude


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> though I think the term _reality warping_ gets thrown around too much too freely these days, IMO that is only for the real high-end guys/cosmics and such
> 
> 
> otherwise call it what it is exactly - in this case seems to be "analysis, spell cancellation magic" etc.



Did you look at the two videos I posted on the first page?
 Its the berserk form, where he lacks control and doesn't use his full power. Its from a pretty early point in the series, before they even find out he isn't a regular Alpha stigma user or his true abilities.

But it still gives small hints to what he does exactly.

Its only 5 minutes of awesome rape scenes, even you couldn't be that lazy


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

> even you couldn't be that lazy


hah!


although I mostly browse NF from work now, with images disabled and I sure as fuck am not gonna watch videos here right now

and when I'm home, NF isn't exactly a priority 

although .. google tells me Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu  animu is just an adaptation of the original novel (?)

in which case it is non-canon as all fuck


maybe those videos give you a general idea, but still .. original source material >>>


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

Shiorin said:


> but OP doesn't ban SM Madz who greatly outspeeds.



it dosen't matter,he is MHS+ anyway.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> although .. google tells me Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu  animu is just an adaptation of the original novel (?)
> 
> in which case it is non-canon as all fuck
> 
> ...



Well yeah, its for the general idea.

The anime doesn't nearly go that far in the novel material. But its enough to know he erases the existence of things that bother him. The durability shouldn't really be a factor.

In the clip for instance to destroy the divine comb that nullifies magic, he simply analyzed its existence and then erased it.
So as long as he can understand the concept he should be able to erase it, no matter the durability. Madara while powerful is still just a human here and there are more than a million examples of him erasing humans.  
Its like you said reality warping is hardly limited by the subjects durability.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

but is it described the same way in the novels ?  wording/exact mechanics of such abilities is very important



meh, I already said you guys should sort it out yourselves


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> but is it described the same way in the novels ?  wording/exact mechanics of such abilities is very important
> 
> 
> 
> meh, I already said you guys should sort it out yourselves



*Here it is.
 But reading this is more work than watching a mere clip, so you were laying about being lazy.
I pointed out some choice bits in red, but you will have to read it all too interpret for yourself.*


?That?s useless. We have already a few experiences of hunting ?Alpha Stigma?. This mere power, as long as I use the Rhule Fragmei I have? Elemio?s Comb that has the god?s power can neutralize it completely.?
Saying that, he pulled out the comb in his hair.
But as he waved, a strong magical power surge rushed in Ryner?s direction?
But the released five-pointed star did not stop.
?Ai???
At the same time Sui released the surprised sound, the five-pointed star that had completely absorbed the power released, stuck on the comb Sui was holding?
Then, a sound descended from the sky?

?Analysing existence. Disappear, ant.?

In a moment.
The comb disappeared.
No, not only the comb,
Sui?s arm? from the ends of his fingers they slowly turned to sand, disappearing, 
(sand here is just used to describe how its disappearing, not actual transmutation, fyi)
?This? What is this? Wuah,aaaaaah!??
He screamed.
Frantically using his right arm that was a dragon, biting off his own arm, abandoning his arm that was slowly turning to sand.
?Ha?wu??
Sui?s brows scrunched together.
Kuu still used that voice that was emotionless like a marionette,
?Sui Onii-chan? still living???
?Ah, ahah. I?m still living. The blood has been stopped by cauterizing the wound? but??
Saying that, he timidly lifted his head to look at Ryner.
?What, what exactly is that, this guy. He isn?t a normal ?Alpha Stigma? bearer? That power just now? and that voice just now. What was he saying! Completely different from other people??
At that moment, the voice descended from the sky again?
?Kill me? With that magnitude of power? Kill me? You will kill me with the mere power of Elemio?s Comb? The ants crawling on the ground, actually said they would kill me? Ha, hahaha, hahahahaha. Disappear. Disappear, disappear. Let everything end. Nothingness. Return to nothing.?
The voice spoke, Ryner lifted his hand, the five-pointed star released by his eyes expanded on his hand?


Sui shouted.
?Quick, escape quickly, Kuu! That, that isn?t ?Alpha Stigma?! That, that is??
Before he completed his words, Kuu carried Sui, with a speed that was faster than a human?s, jumped away from their original positions.
Following that, in the space that Sui and Kuu had been in, completely disappeared.
Just as if nothing had existed there in the first place?
The forest, the land, air?
Everything turned to complete nothingness?
It was an unbelievable power.
Kuu and Sui escaped like this?
But, that voice descended again.
?Even if you escape to other places, everything will turn to nothingness. α is destruction. Thou dost not create anything, dost not benefit anything, dost not save anything. Only destroy, return everything to pureness.?
Following that, the destruction started.
Five-pointed stars started to expand in every direction.
Every time every time, the world was slowly destroyed.
Forest, land, and dead people, they disappeared without a trace?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

pretty legit

although I'm not sure why you think sand isn't transmutation 


so then it would come down to speed of both, as well as his durability/survivability against Madaras attacks (btw if he gets a rinnegan here then he also has a soul-rip (human path ability), though that requires melee contact .. alternatively he can summon GedoMazo with just 1 rinnegan, that has a ranged soul-rip)


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

> But *reading this is more work than watching* a mere clip


nope, not even close  (ignoring that I can't watch clips at work)


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Fluttershy said:


> pretty legit
> 
> although I'm not sure why you think sand isn't transmutation



Well, it also says it erases without leaving a trace. Sand would definitely leave a trace,but I have never been in a desert, so what do I know.

Unless it first turns you into sand and then erases its existence, however that would be pretty redundant.


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

^ all that stuff is useless anyway,when he is just supersonic.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> ^ all that stuff is useless anyway,when he is just supersonic.



Midway through the thread, the op started thinking of changing it to speed equal, so depending on what he decides its entirely relevant.


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## tkpirate (Mar 18, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Midway through the thread, the op started thinking of changing it to speed equal, so depending on what he decides its entirely relevant.



yeah,when you change rules Midway through the thread,you know something is wrong.


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## Katsuargi (Mar 18, 2014)

Nah. Speed equal gets turned on mid-thread when it winds up being horribly mismatched because the OP didn't know better. Seeing as speed equal is really the only nerf we typically accept around here...

So speed unequal, Maddy takes this,
Speed equal Ryner does?

Is that the general consensus?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

if his analyze+erasing thing is pretty much ~instant and thought-activated, then yeah .. with speed equal it should then be faster to execute then Madaras offence (which would require either making a PS or this -      )


if it's not that fast to pull off then it's pretty much a quickdraw between them in speed equal scenario - whoever hits the other first with something wins


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## Vicotex (Mar 18, 2014)

What about madara spaming wooden jutsu


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## Katsuargi (Mar 18, 2014)

Has no relevance here. In speed equalized, either Ryner erases Maddy, or Maddy explodes Ryner. Quick draw start of match style.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Mar 18, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> What about madara spaming wooden jutsu


go jump off a bridge


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 18, 2014)

Katsuargi said:


> Nah. Speed equal gets turned on mid-thread when it winds up being horribly mismatched because the OP didn't know better. Seeing as speed equal is really the only nerf we typically accept around here...
> 
> So speed unequal, Maddy takes this,
> Speed equal Ryner does?
> ...



I would agree with that.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 21, 2014)

I can agree with speed unequal madara wins and equal ryner take this.


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## Mouthofwaffles (Mar 21, 2014)

Anyway since I joined the obd i have been introduced to a lot of cool manga like Berserk and Bastard!! what manga/anime is Ryner from??? looking through the comments it seems pretty cool...


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## Iwandesu (Mar 21, 2014)

Mouthofwaffles said:


> Anyway since I joined the obd i have been introduced to a lot of cool manga like Berserk and Bastard!! what manga/anime is Ryner from??? looking through the comments it seems pretty cool...


I don't think that actually has a manga (densetsu yuusha no densetsu) but has a light novel and an anime.


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## Mouthofwaffles (Mar 21, 2014)

ah ok thanks


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## megaman12321 (Mar 21, 2014)

The first episode makes the anime look generic as fuck. You need to watch past that and you get a pretty decent story


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## Tir (Mar 24, 2014)

Well, if Madara's durability is well above city or mountain, he'd take this speed equal or not.


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## ClandestineSchemer (Mar 24, 2014)

^Nope.

Durability is irrelevant here.


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## Tir (Mar 25, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> ^Nope.
> 
> Durability is irrelevant here.



Do tell why not? 
Riphal's beam is pure destructive power capable of leveling a city or mountain and it matched Ryner's SoAE. 
Means that SoAE limit is mountain level attacks or durability.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 26, 2014)

Tir said:


> Do tell why not?
> Riphal's beam is pure destructive power capable of leveling a city or mountain and it matched Ryner's SoAE.
> Means that SoAE limit is mountain level attacks or durability.



I beg to differ. SoAe's original attack was intended to be against Alpha, and it was clearly mentioned that the light 'erased its very existence.' 

The attack then just went on and wiped out a million soldiers and THEN neutralized Glouvil's blast. Now, if we take into account the fact that Glouvil's blast killed more than 8 million soldiers against stohl, SoAe certainly counts for more than merely mountain level. 

Possibly higher, given the fact that Alpha was insanely large, large enough to blow soldiers to smithereens merely by lifting one of its feet. 

And Alpha, the original target, was completely erased. Now if we account completely erasing as something similar to excalibur's annihilation, then that puts SoAe way higher than mountain level without accounting for the side effects like wiping out one million soldiers and neutralizing Glouvil's blast. Infact, I personally feel that alpha was bigger than caster's monster given the vague descriptions about its size. The question is whether completely erasing of existence can be compared to excalibur-type annihilation.


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## shade0180 (Mar 26, 2014)

............ er...... what kind of erased did it do?


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## deiger1111 (Mar 26, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> ............ er...... what kind of erased did it do?



According to baka-tsuki translations; "its very existence was erased" kind of erased.


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## Tir (Mar 26, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> I beg to differ. SoAe's original attack was intended to be against Alpha, and it was clearly mentioned that the light 'erased its very existence.'
> 
> The attack then just went on and wiped out a million soldiers and THEN neutralized Glouvil's blast. Now, if we take into account the fact that Glouvil's blast killed more than 8 million soldiers against stohl, SoAe certainly counts for more than merely mountain level.
> 
> ...



Irrelevant, fodders are fodders nothing gonna come out of it being able to erase the existence of fodders. 

It means that Alpha's durability <<< Mountain level. Simple logic there. 

It could be, but until someone makes a calc about it, it's stuck in city/mountain level.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 27, 2014)

Tir said:


> Irrelevant, fodders are fodders nothing gonna come out of it being able to erase the existence of fodders.
> 
> It means that Alpha's durability <<< Mountain level. Simple logic there.
> 
> It could be, but until someone makes a calc about it, it's stuck in city/mountain level.



Something that decompose your very existence itself will not get barried by someone with stronger durability or such,

It was showed that SoAE analyse the existence itself and proceed to erase it,if it mountain level,or planet level+ unless your have protection against this kinda of hax means nothing.

Also lolRiphal's Beam,it was said that ryner atack  matched/encountered its atack,but it was completely useless and meant nothing to ryner's atack,it just proceed to erase everything.


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## shade0180 (Mar 27, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> According to baka-tsuki translations; "its very existence was erased" kind of erased.





lokoxDZz said:


> Something that decompose your very existence itself will not get barried by someone with stronger durability or such,
> 
> It was showed that SoAE analyse the existence itself and proceed to erase it,if it mountain level,or planet level+ unless your have protection against this kinda of hax means nothing.
> 
> Also lolRiphal's Beam,it was said that ryner atack  matched/encountered its atack,but it was completely useless and meant nothing to ryner's atack,it just proceed to erase everything.



It really depend which kind of erase before we can consider it hax... really Erasure that relies on atomization doesn't bypass DC. while erasure that is actually a type of BFR.. that kind is considered hax 

Example... 

Erasing you by sending your soul to heaven or hell
Erasing your data by sending it to another dimension

^ hax

Erasing your atoms

^ not hax




> decompose your very existence itself


Decomposition is a type of aging how fast can he age something? And Waka I think already said something about decomposition involves your physicality.. and it might be true since even in real world it does show that.

two 40 year old, the fit one would look stronger and younger than the one who isn't. :zaeu


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## deiger1111 (Mar 27, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> It really depend which kind of erase before we can consider it hax... really Erasure that relies on atomization doesn't bypass DC. while erasure that is actually a type of BFR.. that kind is considered hax
> 
> Example...
> 
> ...


There is a sort of ambiguity regarding his powers. At one point, he mentioned that it will 'your atoms will turn to sand and fade away' while in the novel, the original target of his attack was 'completely erased from existence' and the soldiers it hit afterwards(the attack was too strong and didn't stop with just erasing the original target) had their atoms turned to sand. 

But, I think I can safely say that its not the hax kind of erasing you mentioned.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 27, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> It really depend which kind of erase before we can consider it hax... really Erasure that relies on atomization doesn't bypass DC. while erasure that is actually a type of BFR.. that kind is considered hax
> 
> Example...
> 
> ...



Basically what he does in SoAE is "decomposing the existence of enemy as concept" think of it as if the concept of the existence of someone can be deciphered,he does that instantly and them erase the guy from existence. >he did that with high-level beings in the verse that are intagible and doesn't even have atoms to begin with,he erased their souls and all.


But ryner showed that he can use it to decompose atoms or the very existence itself,really he showed this two feats,he can either decompose the existence as concept or decompose the atoms of the other things to nothing > This was done with fodders,because lolfodders

And Deiger you forgot to mention that theres another mention of ryner decomposing fodders,and after it becomes sand the sand itself is completely erased too like nothing existed there to begin with.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 27, 2014)

lokoxDZz said:


> And Deiger you forgot to mention that theres another mention of ryner decomposing fodders,and after it becomes sand the sand itself is completely erased too like nothing existed there to begin with.


Hm. Must have missed that part. Anyway, saw that you asked the translators about Goddesses feats on animesuki. Honestly, I wouldn't expect much of an answer anytime soon. 

But good news, it looks like they've started translating again. There was an update on bakatsuki on the 14th of this month. 

Oh, and IIRC, in that discussion thread in animesuki, one of the translators did put priests above goddesses, but mentioned that Ryner Eris Reed was above the Priests too.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 27, 2014)

deiger1111 said:


> Hm. Must have missed that part. Anyway, saw that you asked the translators about Goddesses feats on animesuki. Honestly, I wouldn't expect much of an answer anytime soon.
> 
> But good news, it looks like they've started translating again. There was an update on bakatsuki on the 14th of this month.
> 
> Oh, and IIRC, in that discussion thread in animesuki, one of the translators did put priests above goddesses, but mentioned that Ryner Eris Reed was above the Priests too.



When exactly? I saw something about the priests but i don't remember they saying about it,but i believe thats pretty much it,after all it was pretty much obvious


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## deiger1111 (Mar 27, 2014)

lokoxDZz said:


> When exactly? I saw something about the priests but i don't remember they saying about it,but i believe thats pretty much it,after all it was pretty much obvious


Well, to tell you the truth, even after days of probing the baka-tsuki translations, the priests power isn't all that obvious to me.

In the animesuki light novel thread, a translator listed characters by power levels like this: 

Level -1: Kids in Denyuuden. Seriously. They drop like flies. Probably Ene as well since pretty much all her senses are dead.
Level 0: Random soldiers, I guess? Toale, Kiefer, Noa
Level 1: Ferris, Iris, Luke, Sion, Calne 
Level 2: Anyone with a Rhule Fragmei, Ryner Lute, Zohra Rom, Claugh Klom, Tiir, Milk
Level 3: Anyone with multiple rhule fragmei, Goddesses, Pia, Asruld Roland, Relx Eris
Level 4: Priests, Ryner Reed, Eris Reed(by extension Lucile, I guess?), Lieral Lieutolu
Level 5: Ryner Eris Reed

I don't think we can count this as canon, but given that all the info regarding who is stronger and who is not is vague in the translated parts of the novels, the interpretations of the translators' are our best bet at the moment. 

P.S: They also mentioned that higher tier goddesses can be included in tier 4.


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## Tir (Mar 30, 2014)

> Also lolRiphal's Beam,it was said that ryner atack matched/encountered its atack,but it was completely useless and meant nothing to ryner's atack,it just proceed to erase everything.



Reading comprehension is one you are lacking. SoAE beam and Riphal's attack *cancels *each other. Simply put, its output is just as good as SoAE beam. 
Should it truly erases matters like you guys insisted, it'd erase Glover's beam as well. We know that didn't happen. 




> Level -1: Kids in Denyuuden. Seriously. They drop like flies. Probably Ene as well since pretty much all her senses are dead.
> Level 0: Random soldiers, I guess? Toale, Kiefer, Noa
> Level 1: Ferris, Iris, Luke, Sion, Calne
> Level 2: Anyone with a Rhule Fragmei, Ryner Lute, Zohra Rom, Claugh Klom, Tiir, Milk
> ...



I suggest to wait for the chapters to be translated before putting things like this. From the information that we can get right now, nothing suggest that Ryner Eris Reed is above the Priests. The lonely demon is just another pawn in priests' scenario. 
Maybe in the future chapters, but right now, we work with what we have



> n the animesuki light novel thread, *a translator listed characters by power levels* like this:


This is a problem. Everyone can make their own tier-lists. 
OBD doesn't work like that, at least as far as I know. We go by feats.
Not sure about nowadays.


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## Kazu (Mar 30, 2014)

Tir said:


> This is a problem. Everyone can make their own tier-lists.
> OBD doesn't work like that, at least as far as I know. We go by feats.
> Not sure about nowadays.



We don't. We do go by feats. 

You could simply ask the translator the reasoning why, if there are untranslated scenes. If his evidence and reasoning are solid, then we can go by that.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 30, 2014)

Tir said:


> Reading comprehension is one you are lacking. SoAE beam and Riphal's attack *cancels *each other. Simply put, its output is just as good as SoAE beam.
> Should it truly erases matters like you guys insisted, it'd erase Glover's beam as well. We know that didn't happen.




No really it doesn't matter anymore,ryner already did erasing existence of spiritual intagible beings,thats more than enough.

If is that not enough for you,the atack from ryner and glovil that negated each other erased people from existence when they negated in the skies,and ryner was being assaulted by a whole other goddeness

There other feats,and if thats not enough just let this die and wait for a translator come to his reasons why ryner is stronger than the priests and we are done.


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## deiger1111 (Mar 30, 2014)

Tir said:


> Reading comprehension is one you are lacking. SoAE beam and Riphal's attack *cancels *each other. Simply put, its output is just as good as SoAE beam.
> Should it truly erases matters like you guys insisted, it'd erase Glover's beam as well. We know that didn't happen.
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, I was not putting that up as an argument. Although tbh, I haven't seen any translations that put Priests above Ryner Eris Reed either. And FYI, Lieral scared of Eris Reed by bluffing. In a serious confrontation, Eris Reed could wipe the floor with Lieral.


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