# Who was born with more potential? Naruto or Sasuke?



## Final Hyoten Hyakkaso (Mar 14, 2013)

I definitely think Naruto.Naruto fused with Ma and Pa>Ms Sasuke.
Not to mention Naruto is only 16 so he can become a alot stronger while Ms is sasuke's limit and his powers are only temporary


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## Glutamminajr (Mar 14, 2013)

I think that both were born with a huge potential:the only difference is that Naruto starts only recently to tap into his,while Sasuke,having an entire clan behind him(for 7 years before the massacre),tapped into his potential way before Naruto.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Well, with if you take away their "extras" right now, Naruto has infinite SM while Sasuke has an almost blind MS (if Tobi even bothered conserving his old eyes, that is).


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2013)

NARUTO. he would have been recognized as a genius if he didnt have the fox messing up his chakra control.


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## Artful Lurker (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Well, with if you take away their "extras" right now, Naruto has infinite SM while Sasuke has an almost blind MS (if Tobi even bothered conserving his old eyes, that is).



Infinite Sage Mode???


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Artful Lurker said:


> Infinite Sage Mode???



Yes, as in no time limit.


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## BlinkST (Mar 14, 2013)

Glutamminajr said:


> while Sasuke,having an entire clan behind him(for 7 years before the massacre),tapped into his potential way before Naruto.


That was Itachi, who was being groomed to become the clan leader and chief spy. Sasuke was largely ignored until Itachi's falling out with his father.

Half you guys commenting on this thread don't seem to know the difference between "potential" or "fulfillment". There is no way to establish who has "more" potential, especially without establishing *what* the potential is to begin with. The "potential" to do *what*, exactly? Open up a Burger King?


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## Undead (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto. 

The series is named after him.


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## moonxcandycane (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto was born with more potential.


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## Skywalker (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto.

Where would Sasuke be without Naruto on the other hand?


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## Vermin (Mar 14, 2013)

sasuke 

he had a kekkei genkai duh


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2013)

Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius.

In other words Sasuke.


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## Jagger (Mar 14, 2013)

Both, seriously guys, Kishi have made it obvious both Naruto and Sasuke would be equal at the end of this manga. And there's the difference between having potential and using such potential.


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## Grendel (Mar 14, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius.
> 
> In other words Sasuke.



Technically we don't know what naruto would have become had his chakra control not been messed up early on an recently with karuma's cooperation his chakra control seems pretty good not to mention without it his parents would most likely be alive and he would have recei ed better instruction early on...

As for who had more potential its really hard to say as both had massive potential...


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 14, 2013)

It's impossible to know who has more potential. We have no idea how either of them would develop without their respective "handed to on a silver platter powerups".


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius.
> 
> In other words Sasuke.



Just a reminder, Naruto has still SM without Kyubi, while Sasuke would be almost blind without Itachi's eyes.


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## Plague (Mar 14, 2013)

I think Naruto because he's got 9-Tails worth of reserve chakra to pull more taxing techniques.


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## Krippy (Mar 14, 2013)

leaning toward Sasuke on this one as Naruto really didn't catch up to him until he mastered Sage mode, and didn't surpass him until he mastered Kurama's power


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> leaning toward Sasuke on this one as Naruto really didn't catch up to him until he mastered Sage mode, and didn't surpass him until he mastered Kurama's power


 SM naruto without kurama>>>>>>>>>>>>sasuke without cursed mark and itachi eyes


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Mar 14, 2013)

Artful Lurker said:


> Infinite Sage Mode???


Without the Kyuubi in side of him, Naruto could merge with Ma and Pa for indefinite SM.



Krippy said:


> leaning toward Sasuke on this one as Naruto really didn't catch up to him until he mastered Sage mode, and didn't surpass him until he mastered Kurama's power



But this is about potential though, not who was stronger than who at a specific time. And Naruto did catch up to him by the time of VOTE, its just that Sasuke got ahead of him again after the time skip.


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## Krippy (Mar 14, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> But this is about potential though, not who was stronger than who at a specific time. And Naruto did catch up to him by the time of VOTE, its just that Sasuke got ahead of him again after the time skip.



Sasuke realized his potential early then, he is a genius and mastered his birthright at an earlier time, potential is useless if you dont realize it

he also never showed the full power of his MS, which i think will be touched upon more in the future


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke realized his potential early then, he is a genius and mastered his birthright at an earlier time, *potential is useless if you dont realize it*



But Naruto did realize his potential, just not as early as Sasuke. Does Neji have more potential than Naruto because he mastered his birthright earlier than Naruto?


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## Sora (Mar 14, 2013)

Sakura had more potential than both of them
come at me naruto and sasuke fans


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Sora said:


> Sakura had more potential than both of them
> come at me naruto and sasuke fans



He certainly had more potential as fodder, that's for sure


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## LostSelf (Mar 14, 2013)

I only know that without their free gifts, both of them would've been dead a long time ago.

Naruto would've been killed by Orochimaru without the kyuubi.

And Sasuke would've been killed by Deidara (or by Orochimaru himself as well) if not for the free cursed seal.

But well, not talking about powerups because Sasuke is where he is now thanks to Oro and Itachi, while Naruto could master SM, i give it to Naruto, having more potential. Because he mastered SM by himself and was not a gift like Kyuubi, CS, MS and EMS.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Mar 14, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> I only know that without their free gifts, both of them would've been dead a long time ago.
> 
> Naruto would've been killed by Orochimaru without the kyuubi.
> 
> And Sasuke would've been killed by Deidara (or by Orochimaru himself as well) if not for the free cursed seal.


The problem is that if you take away those early gifts that had such an impact on their lives, would they still end up in those situations. For example, if Naruto never got the Kyuubi, his parents would still be alive to raise him and teach him, and his chakra control would not be fucked up.


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## Almondsand (Mar 14, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> I only know that without their free gifts, both of them would've been dead a long time ago.
> 
> Naruto would've been killed by Orochimaru without the kyuubi.
> 
> ...



What? Naruto was taught by the sage toads to master the SM and with supplements such as the oil for him to become accustomed to the natural energy around him. Naruto was helped by more people than Sasuke, and got more support from his parents than Sasuke ever did. He also have the support of the Kyuubi who in the beginning due to self preservation got Naruto out of tight situations and lend him chakra. Killer Bi helped him learned how to subjugate and control chakra at much more refined rate... Come on man Sasuke has more potential.. People put Naruto in to situations to make him great.


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

naruto without kurama>>>>>>>>>>>sasuke without stolen power


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## Milliardo (Mar 14, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> The problem is that if you take away those early gifts that had such an impact on their lives, would they still end up in those situations. For example, if Naruto never got the Kyuubi, his parents would still be alive to raise him and teach him, and his chakra control would not be fucked up.


 well its not that big of deal that his chakra control gets better really as its not going to be over health regen or any of the bonuses kyuubi gives. 

honestly, its speculation to say he would have such great chakra control anyways without kyuubi disturbing it early on.

i would probably say naruto because he is the main character and in shonen they usually have the most potential.


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## PikaCheeka (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi.

So obviously Sasuke.


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## Last Rose of Summer (Mar 14, 2013)

According to prophecy, bijuu, Rikudo Sennin and Uzumaki DNA: Naruto

According to Sasuke: Sasuke


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## Rios (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto's thing is Kyuubi

Sharingan controls Kyuubi

prophecies be damned


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## Eliyua23 (Mar 14, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi.
> 
> So obviously Sasuke.



Naruto has Powerful Uzumaki Chakra , Kyuubi was a trade off for Minato's training in which Naruto could have become Powerful in his own right at 
Least as Powerful as MS Sasuke,

The answer is Naruto


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## ImSerious (Mar 14, 2013)

naruto. duh.


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## alienworkshopguy (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke peaked at his potential when he defeated Danzo since he took his own MS to the max at this point, all the power he received after getting Itachi's eyes can't be viewed as Sasukes own potential power since he would be blind at this point on his own.

Naruto in sage mode could rival Sasukes MS at this point and he still was not at his potential. He had no knowledge of his Uzumake clan heritage and blood line. 

So im not saying one is currently stronger than the other BUT as far as who has more potential, I would 100pct go with Naruto since he has yet to reach his potential and Saskue has reached his a while ago (even though he is now stronger, its not because the potential that he possessed)


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## Hamaru (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto. That is why Sasuke ran away to do drugs. He acted like it was to get stronger than Itachi, but really, it was because when he fought Naruto on the roof top and seen what rasengan would have done if it collided with chidori, he felt like a dumbass.


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## Punished Pathos (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke didn't do drugs, that was all a bogus guess from Sakura.
Geez you guys...
Sasuke had gotten so strong over the time skip that he waltzes on in and blitz Team Yamato.

Sasuke's potential is limitless, he now knows the True Power of the Uchiha.
The EMS is his own power.
The Sharingan is powered by the Chakra of the User's brain!
The eyes are nothing more but conduits for the chakra to released!
Reread the chapter where Tobirama speaks to Sasuke.
My statement will remain unchallenged!


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Almondsand said:


> What? Naruto was taught by the sage toads to master the SM and with supplements such as the oil for him to become accustomed to the natural energy around him. Naruto was helped by more people than Sasuke, and got more support from his parents than Sasuke ever did. He also have the support of the Kyuubi who in the beginning due to self preservation got Naruto out of tight situations and lend him chakra. Killer Bi helped him learned how to subjugate and control chakra at much more refined rate... Come on man Sasuke has more potential.. *People put Naruto in to situations to make him great.*



LMAO. Yeah, a really unbiased view you're giving here. Itachi didn't prepare his own death so that Sasuke could awaken MS in your world, apparently. Tobi didn't help him by preserving and later transplanting Itachi's eyes to him, either, right? 

Saying that Naruto was helped more than Sasuke is asinine.



PikaCheeka said:


> Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi.
> 
> So obviously Sasuke.



While Sasuke was born with Itachi's eyes, amirite?

Things are pretty simple. How would Naruto's powers look like right now without the Kyubi? Infinite SM. What would Sasuke's without Itachi's eyes? He would be almost blind.

SM Naruto>>>>>Almost blind Sasuke

It's pretty funny how people act like MS isn't just temporary power.


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## desgdsf (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> LMAO. Yeah, a really unbiased view you're giving here. Itachi didn't prepare his own death so that Sasuke could awaken MS in your world, apparently. Tobi didn't help him by preserving and later transplanting Itachi's eyes to him, either, right?
> 
> Saying that Naruto was helped more than Sasuke is asinine.


If Itachi was never a bad guy in Sasuke's eyes, him and Sasuke would be top tiers as much as any legendary hero like Jiraya or Minato let alone Minato teaching Naruto. 

Actually Itachi would teach Sasuke and he'd be twice as broken and skilled than Madara at that point. Plus inborn genius talent as a shinobi without the sharigan. 





> While Sasuke was born with Itachi's eyes, amirite?
> 
> Things are pretty simple. How would Naruto's powers look like right now without the Kyubi? Infinite SM. What would Sasuke's without Itachi's eyes? He would be almost blind.
> 
> SM Naruto>>>>>Almost blind Sasuke


Sasuke would never need Itachi's eyes if he never had wanted revenge or Itachi dead, he'd bring out the true power of the sharingan without seeking revenge, just like Kakashi did. This is hypotentically speaking if Minato was never killed vs. Kyuubi and was allowed to raise his son in peace with his wife.

I think they would be equals all things considered.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

sasuke                      

obviously


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## Hydro Spiral (Mar 14, 2013)

They're even.

Cuz, y'know, _rivals_? 

Sasuke is naturally a beast as an Uchiha prodigy, and Naruto is the Jinchuriki to the strongest Tailed Beast with Uzumaki brand  Stamina and Rikudou's will.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

desgdsf said:


> If Itachi was never a bad guy in Sasuke's eyes, him and Sasuke would be top tiers as much as any legendary hero like Jiraya or Minato let alone Minato teaching Naruto.
> 
> Actually Itachi would teach Sasuke and he'd be twice as broken and skilled than Madara at that point. Plus inborn genius talent as a shinobi without the sharigan.



This is based on what, exactly? What could Itachi teach him that would make him significantly more powerful?



> Sasuke would never need Itachi's eyes if he never had wanted revenge or Itachi dead, he'd bring out the true power of the sharingan without seeking revenge, just like Kakashi did. This is hypotentically speaking if Minato was never killed vs. Kyuubi and was allowed to raise his son in peace with his wife.
> 
> I think they would be equals all things considered.



Lol wut? How does that change the fact that MS causes blindness? Sasuke would still have needed Itachi's eyes if he had kept using MS or he would have lost sight, good guy or not.


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## Arthas (Mar 14, 2013)

On topic: We'll never know because Kishi has made it so that we'll never know either Sasuke's or Naruto's own true potential.

Kyuubi has been interfering with Naruto's potential since birth and chances to see Sasuke's own potential has gone the way of the Dodo since he took his brother's eyes.



Pathos Grim said:


> Sasuke didn't do drugs, that was all a bogus guess from Sakura.
> Geez you guys...
> Sasuke had gotten so strong over the time skip that he waltzes on in and blitz Team Yamato.



Personally I agree here but we cannot say either way as a fact. No evidence to support either side.



> Sasuke's potential is limitless, he now knows the True Power of the Uchiha.
> The EMS is his own power.



*"Itachi's* power is flowing into me...I can feel myself getting stronger."

Gee I wonder who said that? Was it Sasuke? But how could EMS be Sasuke's own power if ITACHI's power is flowing into him? 



> The Sharingan is powered by the Chakra of the User's brain!
> The eyes are nothing more but conduits for the chakra to released!
> Reread the chapter where Tobirama speaks to Sasuke.
> My statement will remain unchallenged!



Number one Tobirama was talking of the base Sharingan, second if that was actually true for EMS then there would be no reason for EMS to actually require another Uchiha's eyes.


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## Hamaru (Mar 14, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> Sasuke didn't do drugs, that was all a bogus guess from Sakura.
> Geez you guys...
> Sasuke had gotten so strong over the time skip that he waltzes on in and blitz Team Yamato.
> 
> ...



While I was mainly making fun of Sasuke, he did take drugs to gain control over/improve the curse seal. It isn't far fetched to say that he continued using some type of drug to make his improvements considering how Orochimaru runs his little operation. My comment had nothing to do with Sasuke's current MS abilities...that he gained from Itachi


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## Gold Cube (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto have not won a single fight in the series without the help of the Kyuubi, And it was explained that Naruto's mega chakra pool was the Kyuubi's doing since Minato made the seal so that Naruto's chakra pool would continiosly expand because of the Kyuubi's chakra so Naruto would only get SM and im not even sure it would be nearly as powerful since just having the Kyuubi in him gave him the large chakra pool that sage mode could enchance so i would say that Sasuke was born with most potential since he had the potential to get Sharingan MS EMS and Rinnengan since birth.

But since Naruto now has the Kyuubi i would say that he has more potential than Sasuke in the series.


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## Blaze Release (Mar 14, 2013)

Imo there is talent and there is potential. Both these guys have both, however sasuke's is more talented while naruto has more potential.

Lets strip, both of their 'given' power. Sasuke was a natural genius who excelled at any thing combat related and was known as a genius of his class. The number 1 rookie. This was all sasuke and his sharingan had nothing to do with it. However his heredity, relationship with his brother and his circumstances is what inspired him, however still a genius. 

Naruto is also talented however not as much sasuke. Yes he perfected sennin modo, going by fukasaku's saying naruto has surpassed minato/jiraiya it states that naruto has done something that neither of them could do. He was able to, complete ransengan, something that two geniuses, kakashi and minato failed at.

However naruto has more potential than sasuke, if we exclude their powers 'given'. I see sasuke like kakashi (before the sharingan and MS). A genius, however he lacked something that would have made him strong, perhaps as strong as he is now. Kakashi is more talented than jiraiya however outside the sharingan i do not believe kakashi could have been as strong as jiraiya, jiraiya's contract with the frogs increased his potential. Same with Neji, another talented guy however he lacks potential to be top tier because he is too one dimensional, but also there is so far the byakugan can take him, he would need more. Both neji and kakashi are more talented than jiraiya, however jiraiya had more potential than both.


What makes naruto go above sasuke in terms of potential is his contract with the frogs. Perfected sennin modo and the ability to learn all the frog based ninjutsu that jiraiya showed us. Combine this with the fact that with taguu kage bunshin training, he could easily surpass jiraiya OVERALL by his early 20's. Sasuke on the hand would have a hard time, trying to get stronger outside the sharingan. Yes by the age of 16, he has created 3 A rank techniques and 1 s rank technique, however still not enough. Yes he is able to understand things easily, which in turn allows his to progress faster, however naruto has surpassed him in this because of the kage bunshin way of training.

But what isn't fair is allowing naruto sennin modo, because sennin modo parallels the MS, and if we were to take the sharingan away from sasuke, it makes sense to also take away its parallel from naruto. Even if we didn't and we granted both their respective power, naruto still has more potential because sasuke would have been blind, while naruto will still be going strong.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Gold Cube said:


> Naruto have not won a single fight in the series without the help of the Kyuubi, *And it was explained that Naruto's mega chakra pool was the Kyuubi's doing* since Minato made the seal so that Naruto's chakra pool would continiosly expand because of the Kyuubi's chakra so Naruto would only get SM and im not even sure it would be nearly as powerful since just having the Kyuubi in him gave him the large chakra pool that sage mode could enchance so i would say that Sasuke was born with most potential since he had the potential to get Sharingan MS EMS and Rinnengan since birth.
> 
> But since Naruto now has the Kyuubi i would say that he has more potential than Sasuke in the series.



Apparently another one that has missed that you need a lot of chakra to be able to become a Jinchuriki in the 1st place.

Because EMS doesn't require you to put another person's eyes inside you, right. Then Naruto was born with the potential to be a perfect Jinchuriki for the Kyubi.


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## Kusa (Mar 14, 2013)

Both.Naruto wouldn't have had as much potencial if he hadn't Kyuubi though.As an Uzumaki he would still have a large chakra reserve,but that large chakra wouldn't be a a comparison to the chakra reserve he has thanks to Kyuubi.
In addition to that Uchihas are well known for being extremly strong and skillful,while Uzukamis are also quite popular for their skills and their large chakra reserve,they weren't as much feared as  the Uchiha Clan therefore Naruto as an Uzumaki had automaticly less potencial then Sasuke from the Clan who has the most strong characters from this manga.

Sasuke relied on powers that weren't his own as well but he could have managed to become very strong without it too,by killing Naruto he would have gained MS and wouldn't have needed to rely on Itachis power and it would have been only his power.
In the end he didn't but thats not particularly important,important is that there was such an opportunity he could have griped if he wanted.
This confirms that Uchihas have naturally more potencial,because getting power ups is not really that difficult for them.All they need is hatred which they get quite fast,since losing somone in a Shinobi world happens quite alot.


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## HoriMaori (Mar 14, 2013)

Potential? Sasuke. He was born an Uchiha. Naruto was born an Uzumaki/Namikaze, but was given Kyyubi after birth.


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## Deadking (Mar 14, 2013)

Villain said:


> Both.Naruto wouldn't have had as much potencial if he hadn't Kyuubi though.As an Uzumaki he would still have a large chakra reserve,but that large chakra wouldn't be a a comparison to the chakra reserve he has thanks to Kyuubi.
> In addition to that Uchihas are well known for being extremly strong and skillful,while Uzukamis are also quite popular for their skills and their large chakra reserve,they weren't as much feared as  the Uchiha Clan therefore Naruto as an Uzumaki had automaticly less potencial then Sasuke from the Clan who has the most strong characters from this manga.
> 
> Sasuke relied on powers that weren't his own as well but he could have managed to become very strong without it too,by killing Naruto he would have gained MS and wouldn't have needed to rely on Itachis power and it would have been only his power.
> ...



I agree with the above. However uchiha like Hulk or sayains are superior to uzumaki


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Villain said:


> Both.Naruto wouldn't have had as much potencial if he hadn't Kyuubi though.As an Uzumaki he would still have a large chakra reserve,but that large chakra wouldn't be a a comparison to the chakra reserve he has thanks to Kyuubi.
> In addition to that Uchihas are well known for being extremly strong and skillful,while Uzukamis are also quite popular for their skills and their large chakra reserve,they weren't as much feared as  the Uchiha Clan therefore Naruto as an Uzumaki had automaticly less potencial then Sasuke from the Clan who has the most strong characters from this manga.



A bunch of BS. Minato Namikaze belonged to no clan and he whooped an Uchiha with MS and Senju cells.



> Sasuke relied on powers that weren't his own as well but he could have managed to become very strong without it too,by killing Naruto he would have gained MS and wouldn't have needed to rely on Itachis power and it would have been only his power.
> In the end he didn't but thats not particularly important,important is that there was such an opportunity he could have griped if he wanted.
> This confirms that Uchihas have naturally more potencial,because getting power ups is not really that difficult for them.All they need is hatred which they get quite fast,since losing somone in a Shinobi world happens quite alot.



And Naruto could have decided that he didn't want to bring Sasuke back alive anymore and summoned Gamabunta to squash him like a bug. But that didn't happen either.

MS is not the point here. The point is EMS is as much of an external influence as the Kyubi is. He would have never got that without Itachi's eyes, end of. Sasuke's natural limit is MS and whatever techniques he learns along the way. Naruto's natural limit is SM and whatever techniques he learns along the way. SM is a permanent power. MS is not, and you'll eventually go blind, weakening you further.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Glutamminajr said:


> I think that both were born with a huge potential:the only difference is that Naruto starts only recently to tap into his,while Sasuke,having an entire clan behind him(for 7 years before the massacre),tapped into his potential way before Naruto.



My opinion is similar. They obviously both have tons o' tons of potential, but I think Naruto might have an inkling more (especially in canon what with him being the savior of our world )

The difference, I would say, is that Sasuke is more efficient at tapping into his potential, if that makes any sense. He's getting more bang for his buck, whereas Naruto's just been kind of coasting it out until recently. In the end though it evens itself out.

Though to be fair Naruto was technically born without the Kyuubi, so I would say up until he had Kyuubi sealed into him Sasuke had more potential as well.


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## Gold Cube (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Apparently another one that has missed that you need a lot of chakra to be able to become a Jinchuriki in the 1st place.
> 
> Because EMS doesn't require you to put another person's eyes inside you, right. Then Naruto was born with the potential to be a perfect Jinchuriki for the Kyubi.



Apparently you missed the fact that it was said that newborns could handle the Bijuu because thier bodies would get accustomed to the Bijuu.

And it doesn't matter if Sasuke needs to get Itachi's eyes or whatever the word is potential do you know what it means? Sasuke since birth had the potential to get as stong as he is now. And yes i know that Naruto is perfect for the role as a Jinchuriki i even said that Naruto has more potential than Sasuke with the Kyuubi in my last post, But that still dosen't change the fact that Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi. So Sasuke still had the potential to get all the the things he has now and more since birth. would he get this strong without Itachi? who knows but he still had the potential for it.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> MS is not the point here. The point is as much of an external influence as the Kyubi is. He would have never got that without Itachi's eyes, end of. Sasuke's natural limit is MS and whatever techniques he learns along the way. Naruto's natural limit is SM and whatever techniques he learns along the way. SM is a permanent power. MS is not, and you'll eventually go blind, weakening you further.



Noted, but are we talking about duration here, or pinnacle of power? Cuz Naruto might win in the former, but Sasuke could arguably win in the latter. Arguably.


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## Reddan (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke was born with more potential, but by the end they will be equals.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Gold Cube said:


> Apparently you missed the fact that it was said that newborns could handle the Bijuu because thier bodies would get accustomed to the Bijuu.



Apparently you missed the fact that that was retconned, like many other things.



> And it doesn't matter if Sasuke needs to get Itachi's eyes or whatever the word is potential do you know what it means? Sasuke since birth had the potential to get as stong as he is now. And yes i know that Naruto is perfect for the role as a Jinchuriki i even said that Naruto has more potential than Sasuke with the Kyuubi in my last post, *But that still dosen't change the fact that Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi. So Sasuke still had the potential to get all the the things he has now and more since birth.* would he get this strong without Itachi? who knows but he still had the potential for it.



Lol. So Sasuke was born with Itachi's eyes, I see. Your bias is clear as day.



Sieves said:


> Noted, but are we talking about duration here, or pinnacle of power? Cuz Naruto might win in the former, but Sasuke could arguably win in the latter. Arguably.



Edited my post since it seems I deleted EMS and a sentence made no sense due to that.

Might win the former? Naruto undoubtedly wins in duration, there is nothing to argue about that. After three fights using MS Sasuke was already almost blind. Pinnacle of power is close, but Naruto clinches it by a bit IMO. So overall, he's superior.


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## PopoTime (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto without Kurama:

At 16 he had 4x as much chakra as Kakashi, a jounin

Learned the Rasengan in a week

Mastered FRS without Kurama's help (in fact Kurama was sabotaging him by trying to force chakra though his clones)

Perfect Sage Mode with unlimited duration (Fusing with Ma and Pa)

Senju/Uzumaki genes i,e basic regen (pre-seal loosening at wave)

Taijutsu to keep up with Deva in base, turning to stomping the paths in SM

Dem bunshin feats (bunshin feints, SM clones etc etc)

the list goes on


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke at first, but eventually, his Mangekyou would loose it's light. A power doomed to inevitably seal it's self away.
And by that point Naruto's Mastered Sage Mode, which would be equal to MS Sasuke anyway; on average.
That's not including Ma and Pa. Is it really fair when arguing their personal potential to include Summoning Jutsu, I know it counts, for the sake of this debate?

So around the same basically, until Sasuke goes blind, then Naruto.

If we look at the skill levels of, say Kage Summit/Confining Jinchuriki Arc Naruto and Sasuke:
I'd say it's around:

Base Naruto = [3 Tomoe] Sharingan Sasuke
[Mastered] Sage Mode Naruto = [Mastered] Mangekyou Sharingan Sasuke

If we include all Summoning abilities as well. Naruto Stomps.

I'm glad that Kishi made it so that Naruto was capable of being Sasuke's equal, despite having, and pretty much mastering the Mangekyou Sharingan.
Back in the day, he needed the Kyuubi's Power to be his equal, or superior, depending on where he's at.
But Naruto in Chakra Mode L1 now is slightly superior to Sasuke. And his higher Kyuubi Modes are far superior.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Why don't we strip it all away to the essentials

Sasuke has ALWAYS since birth had the potential to be at _least_ as strong as Madara. Meanwhile Naruto without Kyuubi had nowhere near that potential. He may have descended from senju, but he doesn't have Harashima's skills so far as we know. Therefore, Sasuke from birth (regardless of using someone else's eyes), had more potential. 

However since the moment Kyuubi was sealed in him Naruto's potential rose to another level, or in other words, a bit higher than Sasuke's.



> If we include all Summoning abilities as well. Naruto Stomps.


No because Sasuke has snake and hawk summonings. Besides, its not like sage mode is limited to anyone. Sasuke certainly has the potential to learn sage mode.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Sieves said:


> Why don't we strip it all away to the essentials
> 
> Sasuke has ALWAYS since birth had the potential to be at _least_ as strong as Madara. Meanwhile Naruto without Kyuubi had nowhere near that potential. He may have descended from senju, but he doesn't have Harashima's skills so far as we know. Therefore, Sasuke from birth (regardless of using someone else's eyes), had more potential.
> 
> However since the moment Kyuubi was sealed in him Naruto's potential rose to another level, or in other words, a bit higher than Sasuke's.



Nope. Sasuke since birth didn't have Itachi's eyes. They are not part of his potential, unless you count Kyubi as part of Naruto's potential too.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Sieves said:


> Why don't we strip it all away to the essentials
> 
> Sasuke has ALWAYS since birth had the potential to be at _least_ as strong as Madara. Meanwhile Naruto without Kyuubi had nowhere near that potential. He may have descended from senju, but he doesn't have Harashima's skills so far as we know. Therefore, Sasuke from birth (regardless of using someone else's eyes), had more potential.
> 
> However since the moment Kyuubi was sealed in him Naruto's potential rose to another level, or in other words, a bit higher than Sasuke's.


Not really, with potential Naruto would have had, other than a tad less Chakra Capacity likely, without having the Kyuubi sealed within him. 
Naruto has become Sasuke's equal, despite his MS.

We're talking general potential based on feats, while taking away extra's. Kyuubi / Cursed Seal / Itachi's Eyes.
Not pure "Genetic" potential.

Because based on "Genetic" Potential. The likes of Kakashi, Minato, Jiraiya and others. All have very ordinary potential.


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## Querix (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> And Naruto could have decided that he didn't want to bring Sasuke back alive anymore *and summoned Gamabunta to squash him like a bug*. But that didn't happen either.




And thats a moot point to support your own conjecture. Didn't naruto enter tailed state to counter Sasuke along the fight? Something that packs more power than gamabunta as a patner to supposedly do this squashing on sasuke.


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## Rob (Mar 14, 2013)

As much as I hate to say it, Sasuke. 

The dude is an Uchiha by blood. He has skill running in his vains (Again, as much as I hate to say it)

Naruto had no control whatsoever of the Kyuubi, and was kind of a failure, to be honest.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Nope. Sasuke since birth didn't have Itachi's eyes. They are not part of his potential, unless you count Kyubi as part of Naruto's potential too.


You're actually proving my point. I said that since birth Sasuke had the potential to be as strong as Madara or as strong as an Uchiha with sharingan can feasibly be. That includes EMS because it is a known evolution of the sharingan.

Originally when he was born Naruto did not possess the potential within himself to accomplish all of his bijuu feats. *However*, from the moment he was sealed with kyuubi he had more potential than Sasuke. I have counted that power in all of my posts and I voted that way including EMS and Kyuubi. Basically I'm saying:

naruto post-sealed kyuubi > sasuke
naruto pre-sealed kyuubi < sasuke

But they are both rivals so you know ultimately they will end up equal.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Querix said:


> And thats a moot point to support your own conjecture. Didn't naruto enter tailed state to counter Sasuke along the fight? Something that packs more power than gamabunta as a patner to supposedly do this squashing on sasuke.



Lol at KN1 packing more power than Gamabunta. What can Sasuke do against Gamabunta exactly? Please, tell me.



Sieves said:


> You're actually proving my point.



Nope, actually I'm exposing your double standards.



> I said that since birth Sasuke had the potential to be as strong as Madara or as strong as an Uchiha with sharingan can feasibly be. That includes EMS because it is a known evolution of the sharingan.



A known evolution that requires you to steal another person's eyes. Did Sasuke have Itachi's eyes when he was born? No. Your point is moot.



> Originally when he was born Naruto did not possess the potential within himself to accomplish all of his bijuu feats. *However*, from the moment he was sealed with kyuubi he had more potential than Sasuke. I have counted that power in all of my posts and I voted that way including EMS and Kyuubi. Basically I'm saying:



He had the potential to become a perfect jinchuriki due to his heritage. You either count EMS and Kyubi as both of their potential by birth or not, no double standards.



> naruto post-sealed kyuubi > sasuke



Obviously.



> naruto pre-sealed kyuubi < sasuke



Nope. As I've already said before, SM>MS.



> But they are both rivals so you know ultimately they will end up equal.



I know they'll be close with Naruto being a bit stronger.


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## Kusa (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> A bunch of BS. Minato Namikaze belonged to no clan and he whooped an Uchiha with MS and Senju cells.


I am not saying an Uzumaki can't become stronger then an Uchiha.There are always exceptions.We are talking about more potencial and usually the ones with the strong blood are naturally born with more potencial aleast in Naruto as the ones who are strong most of the time belong to strong Clans.


> And Naruto could have decided that he didn't want to bring Sasuke back alive anymore and summoned Gamabunta to squash him like a bug. But that didn't happen either.


Sure,he could have squashed Sasuke with Gamabunta that he could summon only with his own power 
Besides that was not the point.if Sasukes intention was killing a friend and getting MS,he simply could have found another friend,killed him and gained MS nevertheless, if he feared to lose agaist Naruto.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Not really, with potential Naruto would have had, other than a tad less Chakra Capacity likely, without having the Kyuubi sealed within him.
> Naruto has become Sasuke's equal, despite his MS.
> 
> We're talking general potential based on feats, while taking away extra's. Kyuubi / Cursed Seal / Itachi's Eyes.
> ...



Um. EMS is a feat which has been displayed. With that logic count Madara out as one of the greatest shinobi to have ever lived, because WAIT, EMS is "genetic" and not a "feat" when really its both. Taking away extra's as you so call them doesn't really make sense since they are all within the realm of potentiality.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Sieves said:


> No because Sasuke has snake and hawk summonings. Besides, its not like sage mode is limited to anyone. Sasuke certainly has the potential to learn sage mode.


We do not know if Sasuke's Snake Summoning's are an ability granted by Signing the Ryuchidou Contract himself.
Or due to the fact he had Sealed Orochimaru within his Cursed Seal. And gained much of Orochimaru's Technique's. One of which could have easily been Orochimaru's Summoning Jutsu, and that he had not signed the Contract himself.
And considering the fact he's not since, using Summoning Jutsu, Summoned Snakes. I'm inclined to believe he's not able to.

However Kishi could easily get some new Hawks come into play out of no where, which are Boss Summon size. Depends on what Kishi wants to do. But to our knowledge, we've only seen that one Medium sized Hawk Summon.

And in regards to Sasuke learning Sage Mode. 
It was stated that a Strong Body was needed to Master it.
Based on other statements and evidence:
Basically you need a very high Chakra Capacity that comes with high Physical Stamina/Powerful Life Force.

Kabuto mastered Sage Mode thanks to the traits of Karin and Juugo.
Karin to augment his Physical Energy. Granting him incredible Stamina and as a result, a Large Chakra Capacity.
Juugo, due to the nature of his Clans Power. The ability to naturally gather Natural Energy Passively, while not having to meditate.

Anyway. Sasuke has a Large Chakra Capacity/Stamina.
But he's no Senju or Uzumaki.
It's also to do with their Body being able to handle the Natural Energy I believe. Senju and Uzumaki Body Attributes originate from the Juubi's Body after all. In which all Natural Energy originates.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Villain said:


> I am not saying an Uzumaki can't become stronger then an Uchiha.There are always exceptions.We are talking about more potencial and usually the ones with the strong blood are naturally born with more potencial aleast in Naruto as the ones who are strong most of the time belong to strong Clans.



You're aware that Sasuke himself is an exception, right? Not all Uchiha are as strong as him, in fact most of them don't awaken even the basic sharingan.



> Sure,he could have squashed Sasuke with Gamabunta that he could summon only with his own power
> Besides that was not the point.if Sasukes intention was killing a friend and getting MS,he simply could have found another friend,killed him and gained MS nevertheless, if he feared to lose agaist Naruto.



Sasuke at that point didn't know that you didn't have to actually kill your best friend to awaken MS. And what other friends did he have? He said the person he felt the closest to was Naruto. Maybe Sakura, but that's it.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Sieves said:


> Um. EMS is a feat which has been displayed. With that logic count Madara out as one of the greatest shinobi to have ever lived, because WAIT, EMS is "genetic" and not a "feat" when really its both. Taking away extra's as you so call them doesn't really make sense since they are all within the realm of potentiality.


What I meant was, Potential based on feats after stripping away Extras.
EMS can't be included as their not naturally part of him.
Just like the Kyuubi.

We're including general and genetic potential, just not "just" genetic potential: That's all I was saying.


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## Shinryu (Mar 14, 2013)

of course Sasuke he has hax genes after all


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## Krippy (Mar 14, 2013)

lol I forgot Sasuke has the potential to obtain the Rinnegan 

yeah, this isn't even close


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> lol I forgot Sasuke has the potential to obtain the Rinnegan
> 
> yeah, this isn't even close



Counting another person's eyes and senju cells as part of his potential, while not doing the same with Kyubi 

Quite the double standards you have there.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> lol I forgot Sasuke has the potential to obtain the Rinnegan
> 
> yeah, this isn't even close


Are you trolling the Sasuke Supporters.
If not: 
Then are you kidding. You need the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan + Powerful Senju Body. To even think about the possiblity of awakening the Rinnegan.
And with Madara all of those things. It took him decades to awaken it.

The Rinnegan, nor EMS. Is part of "Sasuke's" Natural Potential".


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Counting another person's eyes and senju cells as part of his potential, while not doing the same with Kyubi
> 
> Quite the double standards you have there.


Indeed, going by his logic, we'll have to include Naruto's "Shinobi Alliance No Jutsu" as part of his "potential".


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Indeed, going by his logic, we'll have to include Naruto's "Shinobi Alliance No Jutsu" as part of his "potential".



Yep, Sasuke wankers never cease to amaze with their ridiculousness.


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## Krippy (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke was born with eyes that will naturally evolve into the rinnegan as long as he has senju dna 

Naruto was given a power after he was born that he would tame and use to his advantage  

yeah, it's not a hard decision


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke was born with eyes that will naturally evolve into the rinnegan as long as he has senju dna
> 
> Naruto was given a power after he was born that he would tame and use to his advantage
> 
> yeah, it's not a hard decision



Lol, so Sasuke was born with Itachi's eyes and senju DNA? 

Your double standards are painful to see. Please, stop embarrassing yourself.



> >nardo wankers bashing sasuke wankers
> 
> :galacticryoma



Why don't you start by pointing out where I'm wanking Naruto, hmmm?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto: has 100x as much chakra as kakashi

can do crazy shit like absorb natural energy while moving and intuitively match and lend his chakra to thousands of shinobi.

Master jutsu in little time despite his handicap.

As soon as he tamed the fox, he went from holding a normal oodama rasengan to spamming giant rasengans in base.


its not even a contest imo.


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## Naiad (Mar 14, 2013)

i would say sasuke because of his sharingan abilities!

naruto got much of his strength through the kyubi but thats that kind of potential after being born!


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## Kusa (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> You're aware that Sasuke himself is an exception, right? Not all Uchiha are as strong as him, in fact most of them don't awaken even the basic sharingan.


Thats why most of the strong guys/villains are Uchihas in this manga..Of course not all of them were strong but quite a few were.There is no way you can talk about an exception in this case.
How do you know most of them did not awake the Sharingan ?



> Sasuke at that point didn't know that you didn't have to actually kill your best friend to awaken MS. And what other friends did he have? He said the person he felt the closest to was Naruto. Maybe Sakura, but that's it.



Of course he did.Itachi told him.
He didn't ,but if getting EMS was his intention he *could *have found another good friend for the purpose to kill him and get MS.All I try to say that there was the opportunity.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto: has 100x as much chakra as kakashi

can do crazy shit like absorb natural energy while moving and intuitively match and lend his chakra to thousands of shinobi.

Master jutsu in little time despite his handicap.

As soon as he tamed the fox, he went from holding a normal oodama rasengan to spamming giant rasengans in base.


its not even a contest imo.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Just a reminder, Naruto has still SM without Kyubi, while Sasuke would be almost blind without Itachi's eyes.



This thread is about potential not who is stronger without X. Also MS Sasuke>SM Naruto.

Sasuke is a Uchiha with eyes comparable to the Mary suu itachi. 

It's no contest who was born with more potential. Now of course once naruto got a giant chakra monster put in him his potential would go up a crap ton.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> >the pot calling the kettle black



Point out where I'm wanking Naruto exactly, then 



Villain said:


> Thats why most of the strong guys/villains are Uchihas in this manga..Of course not all of them were strong but quite a few were.There is no way you can talk about an exception in this case.
> *How do you know most of them did not awake the Sharingan ?*



Because I read the manga, unlike you apparently.



> Of course he did.Itachi told him.
> He didn't ,but if getting EMS was his intention he *could *have found another good friend for the purpose to kill him and get MS.All I try to say that there was the opportunity.



Itachi told him he had to kill his best friend. That's it. You said he could have awakened him by killing some random friend. He didn't know that.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This thread is about potential not who is stronger without X. Also MS Sasuke>SM Naruto.
> 
> Sasuke is a Uchiha with eyes comparable to the Mary suu itachi.
> 
> It's no contest who was born with more potential. Now of course once naruto got a giant chakra monster put in him his potential would go up a crap ton.



Yes, it's about potential. Potential = how strong you can get. Lol at MS Sasuke>SM Naruto. AT best, MS Sasuke is equal when both are at full power. Too bad MS is temporary and SM is permanent.

And Naruto is an Uzumaki with the potential to master SM. What's your point exactly?

And what does Kyubi have to do with SM, exactly? Naruto with no Kyubi has SM, Sasuke without Itachi's eyes is blind.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

> Thats why most of the strong guys/villains are Uchihas in this manga.



or it could also be because the manga is set in konoha, concerned half with an uchiha, and has a backstory of an uchiha-senju rivalry being played out across generations...?

if this manga had a kumo ninja as its main character, the villains would be a _lot_ different. what this is, is a sampling bias

also, you must have some funny definitions of 'most'. because if you count up every antagonist in naruto from land of waves to now, 'most' of them sure as shit aren't uchihas


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## Querix (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Lol at KN1 packing more power than Gamabunta. What can Sasuke do against Gamabunta exactly? Please, tell me.



this does not even involve critical thinking

this page

this page


Naruto just buffed the core of his own power that flabbergasted Sasuke than when he previously witnessed him face Gaara with Gamabunta for God's sake.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Querix said:


> this does not even involve critical thinking
> 
> this page
> 
> ...



Why are you dodging the question? Tell me what VoTE Sasuke can do against Gamabunta, go on.


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## Krippy (Mar 14, 2013)

look, The title says, who was born with the most potential, which means,

who was born with the stronger genetics/raw power that could make them a top-tier *regardless* of how they refined their strength if in the end their powers lie within the scope of their bloodline/original source of power

*the ending is what matters here, not the journey*, Sasuke using his brothers eyes lies within his bloodline, as does the Rinnegan (the highest level of the sharingan) so yeah my point is valid

@Pirao
I'm debating in the same manner as you are, so calling me a wanker is just making yourself look bad


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Krippy said:


> look, The title says, who was born with the most potential, which means,
> 
> who was born with the stronger genetics/raw power that could make them a top-tier *regardless* of how they refined their strength if in the end their powers lie within the scope of their bloodline/original source of power
> 
> ...




Yes, I know what the title says. The one who doesn't is you, apparently. Sasuke was not born with Itachi's eyes. Sasuke was not born with Senju DNA. They're not part of his potential. Case closed.

No you're not debating in the same manner as I am. You're making ridiculous claims about Sasuke (ie wanking), as usual. For the 3rd time, show me where I'm doing the same about Naruto.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 14, 2013)

sorry about the double post.





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> This thread is about potential not who is stronger without X. Also MS Sasuke>SM Naruto. Sasuke is a Uchiha with eyes comparable to the Mary suu itachi. It's no contest who was born with more potential. Now of course once naruto got a giant chakra monster put in him his potential would go up a crap ton.


how is ms stronger than sm? without the fox, Naruto would have ma and pa to keep him in sm while Sasuke would quickly go blind.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Point out where I'm wanking Naruto exactly, then
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yea and Sasuke has potential with him being a very talented uchiha to be as strong as Madara. Naruto did not even have the potential to be minato level without the nine tails. And no a Uchiha does not need to be born with someone else's eyes, its a part of their genes and heritage to use each others eyes to get stronger and even without itachi giving them away freely Sasuke had the potential to get them or someone else's, just like naruto had the potential to master sage mode which he did.

Also just a fun fact even with the nine tails helping him Naruto lost to Sasuke, and without the nine tails helping him he would of died early in the fight when he got stabbed through the chest. Well I guess naruto just did not unlock enough of his potential at that point lol


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## Herpules (Mar 14, 2013)

Probably sasuke

Naruto wasn't born with kyuubi


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea and Sasuke has potential with him being a very talented uchiha to be as strong as Madara.



Stealing eyes and senju DNA is not potential.



> Naruto did not even have the potential to be minato level without the nine tails.



Says who?



> And no a Uchiha does not need to be born with someone else's eyes, its a part of their genes and heritage to use each others eyes to get stronger and even without itachi giving them away freely Sasuke had the potential to get them or someone else's, just like naruto had the potential to master sage mode which he did.



Lol. Using another person's eyes is not part of his potential. Someone else's? You need a brother's eyes with MS to get EMS, do you even read the manga? 



> Also just a fun fact even with the nine tails helping him Naruto lost to Sasuke, and without the nine tails helping him he would of died early in the fight when he got stabbed through the chest. Well I guess naruto just did not unlock enough of his potential at that point lol



You think your weak bait is going to make me mad or something?  Naruto lost to Sasuke because he was trying to get him alive, unlike Sasuke. If he wanted to kill him, he would have summoned Gamabunta to squash him. Not to mention Sasuke was using the CS. Now you'll tell me that's part of his potential too, right?  Your desperation is evident when you have to resort to trolling, since your points have all been countered.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Cursed Seal. Kyuubi. Itachi's Eyes. Are all no goes.
I think Summoning Jutsu should be kept out of this debate too.
Since because Cursed Seal. Kyuubi and Itachi's Eyes are outside buffs. Same goes for Summoning Jutsu.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2013)

cbark42 said:


> sorry about the double post.how is ms stronger than sm? without the fox, Naruto would have ma and pa to keep him in sm while Sasuke would quickly go blind.



Cause he is?

Sasuke can use his MS Justus more times then enough in a fight agasint naruto before his eye sight becomes a problem, and the fight is not going to last 5 minutes anyway so being able to use SM longer is not going to help either.


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## Deleted member 206107 (Mar 14, 2013)

sasuke duh.


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## Pirao (Mar 14, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Cause he is?
> 
> Sasuke can use his MS Justus more times then enough in a fight agasint naruto before his eye sight becomes a problem, and the fight is not going to last 5 minutes anyway so being able to use SM longer is not going to help either.



Pfffft hahahaha. Sure bro


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## Querix (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Why are you dodging the question? Tell me what VoTE Sasuke can do against Gamabunta, go on.



A CS2 Sasuke never faced Gamabunta, *Did he*?

Your question is just riddled with hypothetical syllogistic fallacy, no counterpoint is necessary if that's your level of reasoning. 

Claiming that *Gamabunta* > Kn1 when there's no proof will only get you as far as justify your own conclusion from your faulty premise.


Be my guest.


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## Raiken (Mar 14, 2013)

Not including EMS, Rinnegan, CS, Senju DNA and Summoning Jutsu.

The Potentials End is Sasuke going blind and Naruto having Mastered Sage Mode.
If Sasuke isn't blind then around equal. I might even say Sasuke, ever so slightly higher. "ever so slightly"


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Stealing eyes and senju DNA is not potential.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. If your a Uchiha it is, as uchihas genes react with it unlike other people's. Kakashi can't get EMS or the Rinnegan as he is not a Uchiha.

2. Says the manga. Naruto does not have Minatos talent or genius. All he has is above average chakra levels do to his mom.

3. Not bait at all just Fact that you seemed to ignore when trying to claim naruto>Sasuke when naruto would of been long dead at that point without the nine tails. Sasuke stabbed naruto through the chest without any CS help and no its not apart of his potential. Also lol no, naruto can not summon the boss toad without the nine tails help in part 1 so no squashing would occur nor would he still be alive if it was not for the fox


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## Deleted member 23 (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke, Naruto without Kyuubi can't keep up


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

klad said:


> Sasuke, Naruto without Kyuubi can't beat keep up


 ke ke ke... best answer ever


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## BurningVegeta (Mar 14, 2013)

Has to be Naruto (even without him being a jinchuuriki)... people mistake Sasuke attitude and outlook in life, as his potential. Sasuke's life has been set up for him while Naruto's is not. I'm not saying Sasuke is shit, he is (fact). What I'm saying is he good, but falls short compared to Naruto.

The fact that Naruto at birth was chosen to be the Kyuubi jinchuuriki and expected to master it and it's Chakra says volumes. Whilst Sasuke is a Uchiha, I bet most Uchiha could have done what he has and more.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Has to be Naruto (even without him being a jinchuuriki)... people mistake Sasuke attitude and outlook in life, as his potential. Sasuke's life has been set up for him while Naruto's is not. I'm not saying Sasuke is shit, he is (fact). What I'm saying is he good, but falls short compared to Naruto.
> 
> The fact that Naruto at birth was chosen to be the Kyuubi jinchuuriki and expected to master it and it's Chakra says volumes. Whilst Sasuke is a Uchiha, I bet most Uchiha could have done what he has and more.



the part of this that is actually coherent doesn't prove a damn thing


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## Deana (Mar 14, 2013)

I think it is equal potential.


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## Annabella (Mar 14, 2013)

senjuclanownedme said:


> Sasuke was born with more potential, but by the end they will be equals.



I agree with this. They'll be absolute equals by the end but Sasuke was born with more potential.


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## BurningVegeta (Mar 14, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> the part of this that is actually coherent doesn't prove a damn thing


Shame for you that what you just said, doesn't prove a damn thing either. It wasn't meant to prove anything.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

BurningVegeta said:


> Shame for you that what you just said, doesn't prove a damn thing either. It wasn't meant to prove anything.



yes

it wasn't meant to prove anything

just to point out that your post was wrong


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## Closet Pervert (Mar 14, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius.
> 
> In other words Sasuke.


I agree. Without growing with Kyuubi, Naruto might not have even been able to learn Sennin Modo. Or he might, who knows.

Sasuke always had magic eyeballs. The Uchiha are nothing without them.


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## Rios (Mar 14, 2013)

This went over the dumb end fast, along with the "who is better in base" and "is this part of his power or not" threads.



AnaBallerina said:


> I agree with this. They'll be absolute equals by the end but Sasuke was born with more potential.



No, Naruto has to be slightly stronger so he can knock some sense into Sasuke.


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## joshhookway (Mar 14, 2013)

Sasuke's potential requires tragedies. Naruto's doesn't.


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

Closet Pervert said:


> I agree. Without growing with Kyuubi, Naruto might not have even been able to learn Sennin Modo. Or he might, who knows.
> 
> Sasuke always had magic eyeballs. The Uchiha are nothing without them.


 this  manga fact or just your thoughts ?


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Sasuke's potential requires tragedies. Naruto's doesn't.


jiraya dead for SM ?


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## Closet Pervert (Mar 14, 2013)

fleaky said:


> this  manga fact or just your thoughts ?


My thoughts are always facts.


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## Wax Knight (Mar 14, 2013)

The word potential is so vague in my opinion. It really depends on how you look at it. In chemistry potential energy cannot be measured lol 

There is always a way to get around that while potential thing, like becoming a jinchuriki, or stealing someone's eyes or absorbing their abilities.. so really it is meaningless.

If you mean  by potenial where would their basic natural abilities would put them I would say Sasuke is higher than Naruto on that one. While Kurama is not a natural part of Naruto, Sasuke was born with eyes that can awaken the sharingan up to MS..


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## 1Person (Mar 14, 2013)

Naruto's potential without obito f*cking up his life would still be pretty impressive.He'd have minato and kushina which means:

-He'd have his parents to motivate him to actually pay attention in the academy.
-He'd have konoha's fourth hokage as his personal trainer.
-He would have learned about his ability to match his chakra with others a lot sooner.
-He would have learned uzumaki seals.
-He would have probably been taught the Flying Thunder God technique and become a miniature minato with uzumaki level chakra reserves.
-He would have mastered the rasengan at an earlier age.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

> -He would have probably been taught the Flying Thunder God technique



not buying that

he's never shown any talent for space/time ninjutsu


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## HoriMaori (Mar 14, 2013)

Uzumaki = Strong Life Force + Fuinjutsu (Sealing Jutsu)
Uchiha = Strong Chakra + Doujutsu (Sharingan)

I know which I'd prefer


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## Euraj (Mar 14, 2013)

I'd say Sasuke, since he can still and manipulate the most powerful gift Naruto has.


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## 1Person (Mar 14, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> not buying that
> 
> he's never shown any talent for space/time ninjutsu



Well of course not, people don't just wake up knowing how to bend time and space. I'm saying that minato could have taught it to him like did to genma and raido. Summoning jutsu is technically space/time ninjutsu and naruto is a pretty talented summoning user. Also, im not entirely sure but i think it was mentioned somewhere that minato base the ftg on the summoning technique.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 14, 2013)

1Person said:


> Well of course not, people don't just wake up knowing how to bend time and space. I'm saying that minato could have taught it to him like did to genma and raido. Summoning jutsu is technically space/time ninjutsu and naruto is a pretty talented summoning user. Also, im not entirely sure but i think it was mentioned somewhere that minato base the ftg on the summoning technique.



well of course not, and they don't wake up knowing how to use straw-man fallacies either, but they do tend to learn, huh?

naruto is 16 now, and he's gotten a fair few different jutsu under his belt. never shown any talent for the space/time stuff, and kakashi having kamui, and minato being his father and all, would make them speculate about whether he could learn any s/t ninjutsu, if he had talent for it

...right, well, if you can show me where it says s/t ninjutsu are connected to summoning, then fine


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

Euraj said:


> I'd say Sasuke, since he can still and manipulate the most powerful gift Naruto has.


 perf jinchuriki  like naruto better sasuke


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## Vermin (Mar 14, 2013)

can't you people read the title 

it says *BORN* with potential, naruto wasn't borned with kyuubi, naruto wasn't born with sage mode, the only thing he had was uzumaki chakra
sasuke already had a kekkei genkai, the mighty sharingan

sasuke wins no contest


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> well of course not, and they don't wake up knowing how to use straw-man fallacies either, but they do tend to learn, huh?
> 
> naruto is 16 now, and he's gotten a fair few different jutsu under his belt. never shown any talent for the space/time stuff, and kakashi having kamui, and minato being his father and all, would make them speculate about whether he could learn any s/t ninjutsu, if he had talent for it
> 
> ...right, well, if you can show me where it says s/t ninjutsu are connected to summoning, then fine


 1.for obito and kakashi S/T jutsu need eyes 2.Ninjutsu, Space?Time Ninjutsu


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

sasuke lost his fair MS in two months


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## 1Person (Mar 14, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> well of course not, and they don't wake up knowing how to use straw-man fallacies either, but they do tend to learn, huh?
> 
> naruto is 16 now, and he's gotten a fair few different jutsu under his belt. never shown any talent for the space/time stuff, and kakashi having kamui, and minato being his father and all, would make them speculate about whether he could learn any s/t ninjutsu, if he had talent for it
> 
> ...right, well, if you can show me where it says s/t ninjutsu are connected to summoning, then fine


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## fleaky (Mar 14, 2013)

Zyken said:


> can't you people read the title
> 
> it says *BORN* with potential, naruto wasn't borned with kyuubi, naruto wasn't born with sage mode, the only thing he had was uzumaki chakra
> sasuke already had a kekkei genkai, the mighty sharingan
> ...


 wrong. uzumaki chakra= potential to learning SM and become  perfect jinchuriki


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## CyberianGinseng (Mar 14, 2013)

Lucaniel said:


> not buying that
> 
> he's never shown any talent for space/time ninjutsu


Not buying this.

No evidence any special talent is required for space-time ninjutsu beyond what Naruto has demonstrated.


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## BurningVegeta (Mar 14, 2013)

It always surprises me that people think Minato is special, purely because of the Flying Thunder God Technique, which is a variation of Kuchiyose no Jutsu. He was known; respected and feared because of his use of Space and Time Ninjutsu. Not because it something nobody understood or had seen a jutsu like it before. 

Nobody can argue differently that it is a very special form of Kuchiyose no Jutsu.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Cryorex said:


> Cursed Seal. Kyuubi. Itachi's Eyes. Are all no goes.
> I think Summoning Jutsu should be kept out of this debate too.
> Since because Cursed Seal. Kyuubi and Itachi's Eyes are outside buffs. Same goes for Summoning Jutsu.


I get what you and Pirao are trying to do here, but by removing the powers that they have already displayed (part of their potential) you're essentially not answering the question. Who was born with the most potential? is the question (which is admittedly a vague question the more you analyze it). Not who could potentially beat who in a matchup if you ignore half of their abilities.

So. Up until what they have displayed currently in the manga, Naruto wins. Ultimately Kishi will probaly make them equal. 



Pirao said:


> Nope, actually I'm exposing your double standards.


I get why you think it can be interpreted as a double standard. I really do. But...



> A known evolution that requires you to steal another person's eyes. Did Sasuke have Itachi's eyes when he was born? No. Your point is moot.
> 
> He had the potential to become a perfect jinchuriki due to his heritage. You either count EMS and Kyubi as both of their potential by birth or not, no double standards.



Sasuke from birth had the potential to unlock the sharingan, and as logic would follow unlock all other powers the sharingan can feasibly grant. Yes his brother's eyes would come from an outside source. But Itachi's eyes wouldn't do him any good if he wasn't an Uchiha with the ability to incorporate his brother's sharingan into his own power. What I'm getting at is because he is an Uchiha, any powers that are within the realm of possibilities for an Uchiha, count. The end.

Naruto on the other hand was born an Uzumaki. That means he has from birth the potential to be potentially a jinchuriki. All powers within the realm of possibilites for an Uzumaki sans a bijuu would count here. Okay great, that means nothing. Unlocking bijuu mode would not be in his realm of possibilities. Why? Because he wasn't a host yet.

Naruto born an Uzumaki plus an actual demon to host? Okay now were talking. Now he has the potential to unlock all his modes, what have you.

What you're saying with Sasuke is like locking a level of his power, when clearly it is a part of the evolution of his power, just as much as Bijuu mode is an evolution of Naruto's power from just borrowing chakra. Bottom line, there is a distinction, and yes I will admit it is a slight, slight one, but it is still there.




> Nope. As I've already said before, SM>MS.


Sure I guess. I know SM lasts longer. But couldn't MS be seen as stronger? 



Cryorex said:


> And in regards to Sasuke learning Sage Mode.
> It was stated that a Strong Body was needed to Master it.
> Based on other statements and evidence:
> Basically you need a very high Chakra Capacity that comes with high Physical Stamina/Powerful Life Force.
> ...


This was actually enlightening. So you think it might be limited to Senju and their descendants only? Interesting. But then what about Jiraiya? He's no Senju. From my perspective it seems that Sage mode is just utilizing natural energies along with ninja chakra. So... heritage, genetics, those shouldn't matter. I would have said previously that maybe you need to have a summons contract to be able to learn it but Hashirama went and shat on that. Or should I say Kishi. To be honest use of sage mode seems to be arbitrary throughout the series and there is no actual pattern other than what you said: large chakra reserves, physical stamina and powerful life force which at the very least should be more than the three people we've seen in the ninja world (ehem, Tsunade, etc) except WAIT, maybe its only for people with plot armor who need an "asspull". No disrespect to sage mode though, its cool.

I guess in-universe the reason so many ninja who seem like they could be qualified to have it just don't know the methods required for mastery...?



Cryorex said:


> What I meant was, Potential based on feats after stripping away Extras.
> EMS can't be included as their not naturally part of him.
> Just like the Kyuubi.
> 
> We're including general and genetic potential, just not "just" genetic potential: That's all I was saying.


Alright fine, but to me that complicates things. See with Pirao and me. We both actually agree that Naruto ultimately has a bit more potential (as it stands), but you guys start stripping away powers and then we start debating over semantics.

It's a close race in the polls, as expected.


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## Sieves (Mar 14, 2013)

Wax Knight said:


> The word potential is so vague in my opinion. It really depends on how you look at it. In chemistry potential energy cannot be measured lol
> 
> There is always a way to get around that while potential thing, like becoming a jinchuriki, or stealing someone's eyes or absorbing their abilities.. so really it is meaningless.


But are you really getting around potential, or just  adding to your own potential to begin with. Semantics. Which is why debating over this past the obvious, already established powers (sage mode, bijuu mode vs EMS sharingan) becomes really, reaaaaaaally sticky.


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## ch1p (Mar 14, 2013)

Considering Sasuke is a direct descendant from the older son, I'd say it was him who had more potential. Naruto is a distant relative of the direct descendant of the younger son. I realise it doesn't make sense. If Uzumaki is a descendant then he's a descendant, so it doesn't make much sense making distinctions. However, this is how Kishimoto choose to portray Senju and Uzumaki (Senju is the rightful heir, Uzumaki the distant relative, whatever).

Due to Kurama, I'd like to say it evened out. Both have the same potential. Only that makes sense so these two can be equal rivals early in the series.

So, for the purpose of the poll, Sasuke. At the moment of their births, Sasuke.


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## Moonraker_One (Mar 14, 2013)

People need to understand that 90 percent of Sasuke's potential comes from his eyes.

And to the people who say that Kurama is a powerup? He's had to work _around_ it for very long until recently due to his poor chakra control caused by the bijuu chakra.


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## limbo Kakashi (Mar 14, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Lol at KN1 packing more power than Gamabunta. What can Sasuke do against Gamabunta exactly? Please, tell me.



Uh, Naruto benefited *far* more from the rich influx of Kurama's chakra at the KN1 level than the _could-be_ of having Gamabunta engage Sasuke, it's rather simple, really.  




> Nope. As I've already said before, SM>MS.



Because you say so?



> I know they'll be close with Naruto *being a bit stronger*.



Evidence on how you know Naruto will be a bit stronger *or* _a lot stronger_ *or* *''*_even_*''* ? 



Pirao said:


> And Naruto could have decided that he didn't want to bring Sasuke back alive anymore and *summoned Gamabunta to squash him like a bug*. But that didn't happen either.
> .



Thus, Gamabunta being present gurantees *squashing*, sounds legit.


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## Totsuka Blitz (Mar 14, 2013)

I think Naruto has more potential. He is constantly learning new abilities and still has not peaked.


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## Seraphiel (Mar 15, 2013)

Moonraker_One said:


> People need to understand that 90 percent of Sasuke's potential comes from his eyes.
> 
> And to the people who say that Kurama is a powerup? He's had to work _around_ it for very long until recently due to his poor chakra control caused by the bijuu chakra.



Except it doesn't. It comes from him being a genius even without the eyes. He doesn't need KB training to comprehend complex stuff.


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## Let'sFightingLove (Mar 15, 2013)

Euraj said:


> I'd say Sasuke, since he can still and manipulate the most powerful gift Naruto has.



wrong things were thought


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## Hydro Spiral (Mar 15, 2013)

Gotta love how the poll is an even split right now 

36 - 36..


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## Fear (Mar 15, 2013)

Potential, Sasuke.


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## Sieves (Mar 15, 2013)

Hydro Spiral said:


> Gotta love how the poll is an even split right now
> 
> 36 - 36..



they've been pretty much dead even throughout the whole race. 

they're rivals for a reason


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## izanagi x izanami (Mar 15, 2013)

sasuke

talent>>>>nothing


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## Krippy (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Yes, I know what the title says. The one who doesn't is you, apparently. Sasuke was not born with Itachi's eyes. Sasuke was not born with Senju DNA. They're not part of his potential. Case closed.


His sharingan was part of his potential

sharingan- comes from his bloodline
MS- comes from his bloodline
EMS - comes from his bloodline, acquired through transplant
Rinnegan - comes from his bloodline, acquired through the integration of Hashi's cells 

show me where Sasuke is not using a power that lies within his bloodline, his potential is tied within his eyes and Naruto's to kurama



> No you're not debating in the same manner as I am. You're making ridiculous claims about Sasuke (ie wanking), as usual. For the 3rd time, show me where I'm doing the same about Naruto.


haha you've been quoting anybody who doesn't agree with you and spitting bs about "he wasn't born with EMS or rinnegan"

when you fail to grasp the fact that the definition of potential is

"Having or showing the capacity *to develop into something in the future.*"

he was born with eyes/a bloodline that have the capacity to develop into the EMS/Rinnegan over time and under certain circumstances

so quit your wanking bro, all naruto was born with was a high chakra capacity and the ability to learn Senjutsu, kurama was given to him after he was born


Rios said:


> This went over the dumb end fast, along with the "who is better in base" and "is this part of his power or not" threads.


leave it to Pirao to turn this into a fanwar


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

Krippy said:


> His sharingan was part of his potential
> 
> sharingan- comes from his bloodline
> MS- comes from his bloodline
> ...



The moment he takes another person's eyes or DNA, he's already not using his own power.



> haha you've been quoting anybody who doesn't agree with you and spitting bs about "he wasn't born with EMS or rinnegan"
> 
> when you fail to grasp the fact that the definition of potential is
> 
> "Having or showing the capacity *to develop into something in the future.*"



Great, then the capacity to become a perfect Jinchuriki with Kurama is part of Naruto's potential too. No double standards.



> he was born with eyes/a bloodline that have the capacity to develop into the EMS/Rinnegan over time and under certain circumstances
> 
> so quit your wanking bro, all naruto was born with was a high chakra capacity and the ability to learn Senjutsu, kurama was given to him after he was born
> 
> leave it to Pirao to turn this into a fanwar



Naruto was born with the capacity to become a perfect Jinchuriki for the 9 tails under certain circumstances.

Leave it to Krippy (and Uchihatards in general) to use double standards when it suits them


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## mayumi (Mar 15, 2013)

The fact that naruto can convert kurama's chakra to his own and link with a whole load of people around the world in matter of minutes says a whole lot about his potential. Kurama himself was impressed a lot by Naruto's potential.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. If your a Uchiha it is, as uchihas genes react with it unlike other people's. Kakashi can't get EMS or the Rinnegan as he is not a Uchiha.



Naruto has the potential to be a perfect Jinchuriki then, unlike other people. So following your lkogic its his potential too, no double standards.



> 2. Says the manga. Naruto does not have Minatos talent or genius. All he has is above average chakra levels do to his mom.



No, said the idiots in Konoha who didn't recognize his potential because he was a pariah. He's shown amazing growth and fast learning of jutsus, including completing the rasengan, something "genius" Minato couldn't do.

Actions>>>>Words



> 3. Not bait at all just Fact that you seemed to ignore when trying to claim naruto>Sasuke when naruto would of been long dead at that point without the nine tails. Sasuke stabbed naruto through the chest without any CS help and no its not apart of his potential. Also lol no, naruto can not summon the boss toad without the nine tails help in part 1 so no squashing would occur nor would he still be alive if it was not for the fox



Sasuke would have been long dead at that point without Naruto having the nine tails too. Lol and Sasuke would have been turn to smitherins by the rasengan in the roof if Kakashi hadn't intervened.

It is bait, because you're just taking a particular fight and trying to use it as who has more potential. Naruto whooped Gaara in his half transformed form without any Kyubi help, the same Gaara that was raping Sasuke. Potential = the max strength you can achieve, not picking a particular point in time that suits you. Otherwise I'll say Rock Lee whooped Sasuke, where was Sasuke's potential then? Rock Lee's potential>>>Sasuke's.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

Sieves said:


> I get why you think it can be interpreted as a double standard. I really do. But...
> 
> Sasuke from birth had the potential to unlock the sharingan, and as logic would follow unlock all other powers the sharingan can feasibly grant. Yes his brother's eyes would come from an outside source. But Itachi's eyes wouldn't do him any good if he wasn't an Uchiha with the ability to incorporate his brother's sharingan into his own power. What I'm getting at is because he is an Uchiha, any powers that are within the realm of possibilities for an Uchiha, count. The end.



Kurama wouldn't do Naruto any good either if he wasn't an Uzumaki that has the potential to be a perfect Jin. Either both Itachi's eyes and Kurama count, or they both don't count. No double standards.



> Naruto on the other hand was born an Uzumaki. That means he has from birth the potential to be potentially a jinchuriki. All powers within the realm of possibilites for an Uzumaki sans a bijuu would count here. Okay great, that means nothing. Unlocking bijuu mode would not be in his realm of possibilities. Why? Because he wasn't a host yet.



And Sasuke sans Itachi's eyes wouldn't be in his realm of possibilities. Double standards, again.



> Naruto born an Uzumaki plus an actual demon to host? Okay now were talking. Now he has the potential to unlock all his modes, what have you.



Sasuke was born with Itachi's eyes? No.



> What you're saying with Sasuke is like locking a level of his power, when clearly it is a part of the evolution of his power, just as much as Bijuu mode is an evolution of Naruto's power from just borrowing chakra. Bottom line, there is a distinction, and yes I will admit it is a slight, slight one, but it is still there.



What distinction? Both are outside sources that can only be used by a select few people, they are equal in that regard. You count both, or you count none.




> Sure I guess. I know SM lasts longer. But couldn't MS be seen as stronger?



Nope, common consensus is they're about equal. Go to the BD or search threads if you don't believe me.

The problems is, MS makes you blind, while SM is permanent. Thus SM is superior overall.



AumaanAnubis said:


> Uh, Naruto benefited *far* more from the rich influx of Kurama's chakra at the KN1 level than the _could-be_ of having Gamabunta engage Sasuke, it's rather simple, really.



No, it isn't really. You can't make blanket statements without evidence and expect people to take you seriously. Gamabunta would squash VoTE Sasuke, period.




> Because you say so?



No, because feats say so. At max power they're about equal. But SM is permanent, MS makes you blind. I actually have evidence behind my arguments, unlike you.



> Evidence on how you know Naruto will be a bit stronger *or* _a lot stronger_ *or* *''*_even_*''* ?



He has to beat Sasuke at the end, so it's the logical conclusion.




> Thus, Gamabunta being present gurantees *squashing*, sounds legit.



Glad you agree


----------



## Ernie (Mar 15, 2013)

Boss Naruto.

Naruto > Sasuke in each single way. Just face it.


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## Panther (Mar 15, 2013)

1Person said:


> Naruto's potential without obito f*cking up his life would still be pretty impressive.He'd have minato and kushina which means:
> 
> -He'd have his parents to motivate him to actually pay attention in the academy.
> -He'd have konoha's fourth hokage as his personal trainer.
> ...


 This pretty much sums it up how Naruto would have grown had Tobi not fucked up his life. 

Altough you did forget about SM since Naruto has the potential of learning it because of J-man being his godfather. At the end of the day Naruto would be pretty haxx with Hiraishin and infinite SM with Ma and Pa.

Sasuke's full potential without adding any outside DNA in his body would the Mangekyou Sharingan.


----------



## Final Hyoten Hyakkaso (Mar 15, 2013)

*sigh* Looks like this forum too is filled with uchihatards.
People are using Kurama as an excuse but without him Naruto's chakra control/ninjutsu and sage mode would have been better.
Pain arc Sm Naruto was more or less equal to Ms Sasuke which was the limit of Sasuke's OWN power.Now if naruto manages to fuse with Ma and Pa he would achieve limitless Sm which would clearely make him stronger than Ms Sasuke no matter how much sasuketards try to deny it.
And Naruto is only 16 and has alrady mastered/perfected techniques that even Minato/Jiraiya couldn't do.The guy's a genius.He still has a lot of room to devolop but Sasuke's run ends with his Ms and it's only temporary.


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## Ernie (Mar 15, 2013)

Final Hyoten Hyakkaso said:


> *sigh* Looks like this forum too is filled with uchihatards.
> People are using Kurama as an excuse but without him Naruto's chakr control/ninjutsu and sage mode would have been better.



Indeed. But just ignore them or laugh with them. Those people just have some issues... They can't handle Naruto's awesomeness.


Sasuke 'got something too' from Orochimaru, but they seem to forget that.


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## Stealth Apprentice (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm minded to say Sasuke was born with more potential. But then, potential isnt everything, is it?


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## Seraphiel (Mar 15, 2013)

EliteRamenNinja said:


> Boss Naruto.
> 
> Naruto > Sasuke in each single way. Just face it.



He isn't smarter, faster or more destructive in base(needs kyuubi for anything bigger than a normal rasengan) so that's 3 already.


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## Kusa (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Because I read the manga, unlike you apparently.


There were plenty Uchihas who had a Sharingan.Of course not all of them but more then a few did,therefore talking about Sasuke as an exception is just .



> Itachi told him he had to kill his best friend. That's it. You said he could have awakened him by killing some random friend. He didn't know that.


I never said Sasuke could awake MS by killing a _random _friend.I said if Sasuke wanted to gain MS at every price,he could have found another *close *friend (who wouldn't be a random one)who could have replaced Naruto thus he could have ended up killing him instead of Naruto if he feared to lose against Naruto.
By the way Itachi did not only tell him to kill his friend,he told him at first he can gain MS and showed him how could gain it by telling him to kill his best friend.


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## Ernie (Mar 15, 2013)

Seraphiel said:


> He isn't smarter, faster or more destructive in base(needs kyuubi for anything bigger than a normal rasengan) so that's 3 already.



Base Sasuke was without Oro's help not better then Base Naruto.

And since when is 'a normal rasengan' not powerfull?  Remember the hospital scene... No Kyuubi powers there! Only Naruto! Sasuke saw that too, so he decided to go to Orochimaru to cheat and become a stronger shinobi. But still, Naruto is more powerfull now. Hardcore training, you know.


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## Addy (Mar 15, 2013)

cbark42 said:


> NARUTO. he would have been recognized as a genius if he didnt have the fox messing up his chakra control.



considering he didn't know about elements until he was 16 or the fact that KBs give him information until he was told about it................ pure genius right there!!!! 

my point is that chakra control or not, kishi would have still made him a loser as a kid in order for us to relate to him.

+ there is the whole thing about him learning shit in the two years he trained with jiraya compared to sasuke or even sakura. 

you can blame chakra control as much as you want but he still has one/two jutsu and every battle he won so far he needed kyuubi in it. not saying that he would have been shit without kyuubi but minato himself said with good reason that in order to defeat obito, naruto needed a special power.

and minato has a point because base naruto is shit tier by now.


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## Lucaniel (Mar 15, 2013)

alright, cool


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Of course it's Sasuke that has more potential, he's an Uchiha after all and a genius one at that. His potential is special in a clan that's filled with geniuses. The manga has made it blatantly clear that Uchiha and Senju>all, the Uzamakis really pale in comparison. 

The Uchihas are the ones who stood at the top of the ninja world with the Senju. The Uchihas were the ones so powerful it instilled fear in other ninjas and had non-Uchihas going to great lengths to try and acquire their powers. Their have been numerous powerful Uchiha throughout this manga, while there's at best 3 notable Uzamakis and two of them weren't much more than dumpsters for the Kyuubi.

There's literally no battle feats for the Uzamaki outside of Naruto. Nobody coveting an Uzamaki body, no super awesome Uzamaki Edo Tensai, they've got nothing. They've been tied to a sealing jutsu that kills the user and being a jail cell for the Kyubi, that's it.


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## Moonraker_One (Mar 15, 2013)

The entire seat of power in an Uchiha is in their eyes. If they get blinded; it's game over.

The Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju clan; and having watched the pain battle, it's plain to see that Naruto had crazy potential even before the fox was in him.


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## limbo Kakashi (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> No, it isn't really. You can't make blanket statements without evidence and expect people to take you seriously. Gamabunta would squash VoTE Sasuke, period.



Would Gamabunta squash KN1 Naruto as well?   





> No, because feats say so. At max power they're about equal.



When has Mangekyo Sasuke  ever engaged Naruto in sennin mode?. 



> But SM is permanent, MS makes you blind. I actually have evidence behind my arguments, unlike you.



Your strawman statement.
Sage mode having no repercussion and  Mangekyo attached blindness has relevance here how? 





> He has to beat Sasuke at the end, so it's the logical conclusion.



The ''Good guy always wins'' cliche is your logical conclusion. You've been following a manga predominantely based on moronic bonds and you still think Naruto has to be able to beat Sasuke by the end?   



> Glad you agree



Concession welcomed


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

Villain said:


> There were plenty Uchihas who had a Sharingan.Of course not all of them but more then a few did,therefore talking about Sasuke as an exception is just .



Seriously?  I said Sasuke is an exception because he's one of the few with the potential to achieve EMS, when the majority of Uchiha cannot even awaken the basic sharingan. Just like not every Senju is Hashirama, not every Uchiha is Madara.



> I never said Sasuke could awake MS by killing a _random _friend.I said if Sasuke wanted to gain MS at every price,he could have found another *close *friend (who wouldn't be a random one)who could have replaced Naruto thus he could have ended up killing him instead of Naruto if he feared to lose against Naruto.



How? He said he had to kill Naruto because he felt the closest to him. Now people can fake feelings of friendship or something to awaken MS? 



> By the way Itachi did not only tell him to kill his friend,he told him at first he can gain MS and showed him how could gain it by telling him to kill his best friend._this_ Gedou Mazou



That's what I said. Sasuke thought the requirement to gain MS was killing his best friend


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

AumaanAnubis said:


> Would Gamabunta squash KN1 Naruto as well?



Obviously.



> When has Mangekyo Sasuke  ever engaged Naruto in sennin mode?.



Never. And? What is your point?



> Your strawman statement.
> Sage mode having no repercussion and  Mangekyo attached blindness has relevance here how?



If two power ups give you similar strength, yet one of them is permanent while the other one weakens you over time, it's obvious which is the superior one.



> The ''Good guy always wins'' cliche is your logical conclusion. You've been following a manga predominantely based on moronic bonds and you still think Naruto has to be able to beat Sasuke by the end?



Heh, yes. The good guy winning in the end, crazy, right? 



> Concession welcomed



Indeed, your concession was quite welcomed


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Moonraker_One said:


> The entire seat of power in an Uchiha is in their eyes. If they get blinded; it's game over.
> 
> The Uzumaki are distantly related to the Senju clan; and having watched the pain battle, it's plain to see that Naruto had crazy potential even before the fox was in him.



Uhh, what? Crazy potential before the fox? The best thing about Uzamaki's is their ability to host the nine tails, what the hell would Kushina be if she wasn't a host? Do those chakra chains work on anything but Bijuu?

Naruto without the Kyubi is still a dimwit ninja with abnormally high chakra levels. Sasuke is a genius with a hax set of eyes that become even more hax by witnessing the loss of a loved one. No comparison at all.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

StuckInADaze said:


> Uhh, what? Crazy potential before the fox? The best thing about Uzamaki's is their ability to host the nine tails, what the hell would Kushina be if she wasn't a host? Do those chakra chains work on anything but Bijuu?



Not like Naruto has Sage Mode, right? Why are you talking about Kushina? This thread is about Naruto and Sasuke. And yes, those chakra chains work on things other than Bijuu just fine, since the barrier they created didn't allow the third Hokage to get through to where they were.



> Naruto without the Kyubi is still a dimwit ninja with abnormally high chakra levels. Sasuke is a genius with a hax set of eyes that become even more hax by witnessing the loss of a loved one. No comparison at all.



Current Naruto without the Kyubi has infinite SM. Sasuke without Itachi's eyes has an almost blind MS.


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Not like Naruto has Sage Mode, right? Why are you talking about Kushina? This thread is about Naruto and Sasuke. And yes, those chakra chains work on things other than Bijuu just fine, since the barrier they created didn't allow the third Hokage to get through to where they were.
> 
> 
> 
> Current Naruto without the Kyubi has infinite SM. Sasuke without Itachi's eyes has an almost blind MS.



Is SM something specific to Naruto's potential alone? Is it not something that other ninjas can acquire? It's not even comparable to MS. Sasuke's MS is something specific to him. SM can and has been acquired by multiple ninja. Hell, we don't even know that Sasuke couldn't achieve it if he trained for it.

I brought up Kushina because he made a comparison between the Uchiha and the Uzamaki. While their have been many Uchiha one could bring up to reference, the only notable Uzamaki outside of Naruto is his mom. The best thing about Naruto is that his Uzamaki heritage allows him to host the ninetails, take that away and there's no way he's competing with the top tier.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

StuckInADaze said:


> Is SM something specific to Naruto's potential alone? Is it not something that other ninjas can acquire? It's not even comparable to MS. Sasuke's MS is something specific to him. SM can and has been acquired by multiple ninja. Hell, we don't even know that Sasuke couldn't achieve it if he trained for it.



It is something that only ninjas with huge chakra pools and specific summoning contracts can get (and Hashirama through whatever method he used since he doesn't seem to have a summoning contract).

MS can and has been acquired by multiple ninja too. What's your point?


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

sasuke with eyes=stupid,little emo child with nax bonus


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

MS=itachi,madara,izuna and other uchiha


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> It is something that only ninjas with huge chakra pools and specific summoning contracts can get (and Hashirama through whatever method he used since he doesn't seem to have a summoning contract).
> 
> MS can and has been acquired by multiple ninja too. What's your point?



MS can be acquired by multiple people, Sasuke's MS is specific to him and his potential alone. Can the same be said for Naruto's SM?


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## Krippy (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> The moment he takes another person's eyes or DNA, he's already not using his own power.



for the last fucking time, ITS NOT ABOUT POWER, ITS ABOUT HIS GENETICS



> Great, then the capacity to become a perfect Jinchuriki with Kurama is part of Naruto's potential too. No double standards.



Never said anything diffrent



> Naruto was born with the capacity to become a perfect Jinchuriki for the 9 tails under certain circumstances.


and Sasuke was born with eyes that will evolve into the rinnegan under certain circumstances

no double standards


> Leave it to Krippy (and Uchihatards in general) to use double standards when it suits them



i've been trying really hard to keep it civil and not flame/neg you, but you're gonna have to debate better than that 

let me ask you this:

can a senju take his brother eyes and acheive a greater power? No, because its not in his genes

Can a senju take an uchiha's eyes and awaken the Rinnegan? no, because the Sharingan is not in his genes

Sasuke's genes > Naruto's pet


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## Kwon Yuri (Mar 15, 2013)

I am not saying that Sasuke is stronger than Naruto.
 But obviously Sasuke was born with more potential... Because you know... He is an Uchiha.


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## limbo Kakashi (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Obviously.



I'm real slow. So, just to be sure i'm understanding this, i'll rephrase. 

Would Gamabunta *defeat* KN1 Naruto?  





> Never. And? What is your point?



Just curious how you came to draw the conclusion of them being *about equal* since they've never engaged one another at their respective peaks.



> If two power ups give you similar strength, yet one of them is permanent while the other one weakens you over time, it's obvious which is the superior one.



Drawbacks from mangekyo overuse is not what makes sage mode superior or inferior.



> Heh, yes. The good guy winning in the end, crazy, right?



 4




> ndeed, your concession was quite welcomed



As in Gamabunta = squashing? Yeah we're on the same page. Logic at its finest.


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Kwon Yuri said:


> I am not saying that Sasuke is stronger than Naruto.
> But obviously Sasuke was born with more potential... Because you know... He is an Uchiha.



This, seriously. Uchihas and Senjus have the most potential out of any other clan in the manga. Sasuke is a genius and has vast potential, even in a clan filled with Geniuses. Naruto is an amazing ninja but its clear who was born with more potential, the Kyubi Naruto got implanted with shortly after birth closed the gap.

Put it this way, Sasuke's eyes were said to have more potential than Itachi's. Is anybody really going to compare Naruto's potential to Itachi's? I would hope not


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

StuckInADaze said:


> MS can be acquired by multiple people, Sasuke's MS is specific to him and his potential alone. Can the same be said for Naruto's SM?



So far, yes, it can be said that it is, since the only other known toad sage was imperfect. Though I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

Krippy said:


> for the last fucking time, ITS NOT ABOUT POWER, ITS ABOUT HIS GENETICS



That's great.




> Never said anything diffrent



Cool.



> and Sasuke was born with eyes that will evolve into the rinnegan under certain circumstances
> 
> no double standards



No, he was not. The eyes that will (if it happens) evolve into the Rinnegan are Itachi's.



> i've been trying really hard to keep it civil and not flame/neg you, but you're gonna have to debate better than that



I'm terrified.



> let me ask you this:
> 
> can a senju take his brother eyes and acheive a greater power? No, because its not in his genes
> 
> ...



Can an Uchiha become a perfect Jinchuriki of the Kyubi? No, because it's not in their genes. It is in Naruto's. Both are suited to receiving outside power sources that only them can use them effectively. it just so happens that Naruto's hax>>>Sasuke's hax 



AumaanAnubis said:


> I'm real slow. So, just to be sure i'm understanding this, i'll rephrase.
> 
> Would Gamabunta *defeat* KN1 Naruto?



Ok, I'll repeat: yes, easily.




> Just curious how you came to draw the conclusion of them being *about equal* since they've never engaged one another at their respective peaks.



The same way I know Hashirama stomps Raikage, to put up a random example. By comparing their feats (ie what they can do).




> Drawbacks from mangekyo overuse is not what makes sage mode superior or inferior.



Yes, it does. If something gives the same power with no drawbacks, it's obviously superior to something that has drawbacks. Common sense, really.



> 4



Maybe you could mention what your point is?



> As in Gamabunta = squashing? Yeah we're on the same page. Logic at its finest.



Great


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> So far, yes, it can be said that it is, since the only other known toad sage was imperfect. Though I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.



Really? You don't see the difference in Sasuke's MS being specific to him and his potential alone as opposed to Naruto's SM that others can also achieve? It was never stated that Jiraiya couldn't acquire perfect sage mode, just that he had yet to do it. No one else has the potential to acquire Sasuke's MS.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

StuckInADaze said:


> Really? You don't see the difference in Sasuke's MS being specific to him and his potential alone as opposed to Naruto's SM that others can also achieve? It was never stated that Jiraiya couldn't acquire perfect sage mode, just that he had yet to do it. No one else has the potential to acquire Sasuke's MS.



That is irrelevant. Something not being unique (which you haven't proved BTW, since so far Naruto's SM is indeed unique) doesn't mean it's not part of someone's potential. Hyuga all have the Byakugan. It's still part of their potential.

If we're going to speculate based on nothing, like you're doing, I could say that there could have been some other Uchiha trhoughout history that had the same abilities as Sasuke's MS, unlikely as it is. Though, again, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove with this.

Naruto without Kyubi has infinite SM. Sasuke without Itachi's eyes has MS (that turns him blind with usage). Those are the facts.


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## StuckInADaze (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Yes, it does. If something gives the same power with no drawbacks, it's obviously superior to something that has drawbacks. Common sense, really



SM and MS do NOT give you the same power. SM is an enhancement to things you already have, if your move set is weak before SM it will only help make those moves stronger. MS gives you three unique ridiculously haxed jutsus. A mastered MS immediately vaults you to top tier status, the same can not be said for Sage mode. 

I don't see these power ups as being comparable at all. You can compare the ninja that wield them, but not the power ups themselves.


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## Pirao (Mar 15, 2013)

StuckInADaze said:


> SM and MS do NOT give you the same power. SM is an enhancement to things you already have, if your move set is weak before SM it will only help make those moves stronger. MS gives you three unique ridiculously haxed jutsus. A mastered MS immediately vaults you to top tier status, the same can not be said for Sage mode.
> 
> I don't see these power ups as being comparable at all. You can compare the ninja that wield them, but not the power ups themselves.



We're talking about Naruto and Sasuke here, which I have already mentioned. If you're a weakling you're not going to achieve SM in the first place, sorry to say. Did you miss the training? You bring up a good point though. SM gives you even greater strength the stronger you get, since it's a multiplier (without drawbacks). MS gives you a set amount of power (and turns you blind). More proof that SM is superior.

I'm not comparing the powerups, though I could. I'm comparing Naruto (with powerups that not involve the Kyubi, ie external sources), and Sasuke (with powerups that don't involve Itachi's eyes, ie external sources).


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## Ganta (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Yes, it does. If something gives the *same power*  with no drawbacks, it's *obviously superior* to something that has drawbacks. *Common sense*, really.




...........


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## Kusa (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Seriously?  I said Sasuke is an exception because he's one of the few with the potential to achieve EMS, when the majority of Uchiha cannot even awaken the basic sharingan. Just like not every Senju is Hashirama, not every Uchiha is Madara.




Show me the manga panel where it's mentioned that the majority of the Uchihas cannot even awake a basic Sharingan.Most Uchihas who were introduced till now had a Sharingan and more then a few were introduced.

Moreover,all you need to get a Sharingan is to be under a difficult  circumstance,since I am sure many Uchihas were atleast once under emotional stress it makes sense to say that plenty of them did possess the Sharingan.Basically everyone who suffers can awake it.You don't need much talent or power to suffer.

Sasuke is the second person who achieved EMS,this doesn't mean that others had less potencial to achieve ityou took that out of your ass.Sasuke is a genuis,however he could have awaken it even if he wasn't really one because any further stages of the Sharingan be be awaken by killing someone who is dear to you alone.I am pretty sure that quite many Uchihas did have the potencial to kill their bff or stole the eyes of their brother if their brothers did have the MS,especially if their brother/bff was weaker then them.
Thats the reason why Tobirama feared them so much.He knew there was the high possibilty that a one of them could become like Madara Uchiha.




> How? He said he had to kill Naruto because he felt the closest to him. Now people can fake feelings of friendship or something to awaken MS?


Even if the reason of him finding a new friend was only because of his own benefit,it doesn't mean that could have not developed serious feelings for this person and felt close to him.Sure Itachi didn't tell him about it,but if he really wanted MS very much he would have alteast tried it.

Furthermore,if he wanted to kill Naruto but was scared to lose against him in a fight, he could have used deceitful and very non shinobi methods to kill him e.g something Naruto would have not expected.I am not saying he would have been  sucessful with that,but the chance would have been probably higher.


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## Sieves (Mar 15, 2013)

Ganta said:


> ...........


QFT .... especially since MS could arguably be stronger



> More proof that SM is superior


So if SM user gets stuck in Tsukuyomi? Or even Amaterasu? .... 



Villain said:


> Sasuke is the second person who achieved EMS,this doesn't mean that others had less potencial to achieve ityou took that out of your ass.Sasuke is a genuis,however he could have awaken it even if he wasn't really one because any further stages of the Sharingan be be awaken by killing someone who is dear to you alone.I am pretty sure that quite many Uchihas did have the potencial to kill their bff or stole the eyes of their brother if their brothers did have the MS,especially if their brother/bff was weaker then them.
> Thats the reason why Tobirama feared them so much.He knew there was the high possibilty that a one of them could become like Madara Uchiha.


Also QFT 

All uchihas have the potential to do anything to unlock their visual prowess. That is a given.


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## Plague (Mar 15, 2013)

Sieves said:


> QFT .... especially since MS could arguably be stronger
> 
> 
> So if SM user gets stuck in Tsukuyomi? Or even Amaterasu? ....
> ...



I think you're confusing Potential with who's more dangerous.

Uchiha definitely are more dangerous because of their Mangekyo techniques, but Naruto can simply outlast them due to his enhanced vitality and 9-Tails chakra reserve. 

Potentially, because Naruto has so much chakra and stamina, he can learn and use more taxing techniques longer and to a greater degree as he gets older. 


Didn't Bee say that if you and your tailed beast partner are friends, then you are immune to Genjutsu?

And as far as Amaterasu goes, Naruto will just have to spam substitution and clones more. It's a great deal of strain on Sasuke to use those techniques, where as Naruto can spam clones for quite a while. and on top of that, Naruto has regeneration, albeit, slow.


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## Krippy (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> No, he was not. The eyes that will (if it happens) evolve into the Rinnegan are Itachi's.


and why is that?

because transplanting his brother's eyes will make him stronger, which is a process unique to the uchiha


> Can an Uchiha become a perfect Jinchuriki of the Kyubi? No, because it's not in their genes. It is in Naruto's. Both are suited to receiving outside power sources that only them can use them effectively. it just so happens that Naruto's hax>>>Sasuke's hax


Naruto's has a large chakra capacity and a body suited for sage mode, nothing in the manga inplies that an uchiha wouldn't be able to become a perfect jin

EMS+Rinnegan > Kurama/SM 

I'm done here since you have failed to refute my stance


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## Ernie (Mar 15, 2013)

Hahahahaha being wasted this thread is even more fun!!!

"EMS + Rinnegan > Kurama/SM" hahahaha where the f*ck is the Rinnegan, bro?! Hahahaahha!


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## Not another narutard (Mar 15, 2013)

Sasuke is an uchiha. Since he was born he had the potential to awake the Sharingan and even EMS 

Naruto was born Uzumaki. He had... mmm... good recovering skills? Or something like that? idk lol 

Uhm... how are Sage Mode and the Kyubi included in Naruto's _innate_ potential?


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## Zoan Marco (Mar 15, 2013)

Not another narutard said:


> Sasuke is an uchiha. Since he was born he had the potential to awake the Sharingan and EMS
> 
> Naruto was born Uzumaki. He had... mmm... good recovering skills? Or something like that? idk lol
> 
> Uhm... how are Sage Mode and the Kyubi included in Naruto's _innate_ potential?



Exactly, Naruto  wasn't born with Kurama and the potential of achieving sage mode goes for Sasuke too.


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

naruto born with potential to learn sage mode and perf jinc... sasuke born with potential to awaken sharingan and mangekyou sharingan


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## Not another narutard (Mar 15, 2013)

fleaky said:


> naruto born with potential to learn sage mode and perf jinc... sasuke born with potential to awaken sharingan and mangekyou sharingan



Potential to learn per jinc? You mean, potential to talk nicely to Kurama and make friends with him? Besides, he didn't born being a jinc... the thread is about their innate potential

Sage mode is just training.


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

Not another narutard said:


> Potential to learn per jinc? You mean, potential to talk nicely to Kurama and make friends with him? Besides, he didn't born being a jinc... the thread is about their innate potential
> 
> Sage mode is just training.


  you mean kill your friend to mangekyou sharingan? stolen itachi eyes to EMS ?.. this just action, no inner potential...large reserve of chakra needed to learn sage mode


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## KaitenV (Mar 15, 2013)

I would say Naruto, he in Kurama will develop amazing new jutsu.


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## santanico (Mar 15, 2013)

Naruto                .


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## Not another narutard (Mar 15, 2013)

fleaky said:


> you mean kill your friend to mangekyou sharingan? stolen itachi eyes to EMS ?.. this just action, no inner potential...large reserve of chakra needed to learn sage mode



The point is Sasuke was born with the potential of awakening EMS while Naruto wasn't. On the other hand, both of them would've been able to learn sage mode. I don't remember anything suggesting that large reserve of chakra is needed to learn sage mode, btw


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

Not another narutard said:


> The point is Sasuke was born with the potential of awakening EMS while Naruto wasn't. On the other hand, both of them would've been able to learn sage mode. I don't remember anything suggesting that large reserve of chakra is needed to learn sage mode, btw


1. sasuke born with potential to awaken MS not EMS 2.  On the other hand, both of them would've been able to learn sage mode"  where you this reading ? sasuke might learn sage mode only with juugo/karin cells 3. this Shima or Fukasaku word


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## Kage (Mar 15, 2013)

er...both?

potential is pretty much a given for anyone at _birth..._


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## Daxter (Mar 15, 2013)

Both. I think that's the point of the manga or smth idk.


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## PainHyuuga (Mar 15, 2013)

easily sasuke, he is the successor to the Juubi in human form


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## 민찬영 (Mar 15, 2013)

Naruto. Always Naruto.


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## Almondsand (Mar 15, 2013)

Pirao said:


> LMAO. Yeah, a really unbiased view you're giving here. Itachi didn't prepare his own death so that Sasuke could awaken MS in your world, apparently. Tobi didn't help him by preserving and later transplanting Itachi's eyes to him, either, right?
> 
> Saying that Naruto was helped more than Sasuke is asinine.


_How many times are you going to get banned for flaming until you GET it, Almondsand? -*SaiST*_​
The thread is asking who was born with more potential.. the fact is Sasuke was a genius and Naruto was an idiot that so happen to have the Kyuubi thanks to being born to a Jinchuuriki. Kurama was not Naruto's power from birth but after birth. Most of Naruto's great stamina comes from the Kyuubi chakra which had actually greatly increased his own regular stamina from him being it's vessel. If Naruto never had the Kyuubi I doubt he will have had enough stamina and vitality to learn any of the techniques in his repertoire.. he will be corny as shit if he never had an outside power.  Sasuke was born in the Uchiha clan and was always credited a genius before he awaken his sharingan.. never depended on nothing but what he had innately while Naruto was given outside gifts. 

Naruto was help much more than Sasuke... saying that Sasuke was helped more is asinine.


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## fleaky (Mar 15, 2013)

sasuke never called smart genius like shika

true genius like itachi,neji or shika... don't  need bonus from other


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## Minato Namikaze. (Mar 15, 2013)

Naruto


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## Raiden (Mar 15, 2013)

You have to lay out a criteria for this kind of thing, OP.

Lineage and parents give Sasuke the advantage. Nature didn't determine that Naruto would have such a head strong personality, the basis of his power level.


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## boohead (Mar 16, 2013)

Naurot does, because Sasuke's upper potential goes down hill on the curve very fast as soon as dat' blindness sets in, all while Naruto continues to improve.


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## DeK3iDE (Mar 16, 2013)

Sasuke. Naruto was destined to be powerful and everything, but he wasn't going to have the kind of pluses Sasuke would have. Probably won't ever have them either. I think the way Oro and Akatsuki have been trying to get him on their team proves that.


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## Pirao (Mar 16, 2013)

Villain said:


> Show me the manga panel where it's mentioned that the majority of the Uchihas cannot even awake a basic Sharingan.Most Uchihas who were introduced till now had a Sharingan and more then a few were introduced.
> 
> Moreover,all you need to get a Sharingan is to be under a difficult  circumstance,since I am sure many Uchihas were atleast once under emotional stress it makes sense to say that plenty of them did possess the Sharingan.Basically everyone who suffers can awake it.You don't need much talent or power to suffer.




*Spoiler*: __ 










> ]Sasuke is the second person who achieved EMS,this doesn't mean that others had less potencial to achieve ityou took that out of your ass.Sasuke is a genuis,however he could have awaken it even if he wasn't really one because any further stages of the Sharingan be be awaken by killing someone who is dear to you alone.I am pretty sure that quite many Uchihas did have the potencial to kill their bff or stole the eyes of their brother if their brothers did have the MS,especially if their brother/bff was weaker then them.
> Thats the reason why Tobirama feared them so much.He knew there was the high possibilty that a one of them could become like Madara Uchiha.



Right, I'm taking out of my ass something that is explicitly stated in the manga 
I suggest you go reread the fight against Itachi, then back at me, because I'm not going to continue discussion with someone who has no clue about manga canon.



> Even if the reason of him finding a new friend was only because of his own benefit,it doesn't mean that could have not developed serious feelings for this person and felt close to him.Sure Itachi didn't tell him about it,but if he really wanted MS very much he would have alteast tried it.
> 
> Furthermore,if he wanted to kill Naruto but was scared to lose against him in a fight, he could have used deceitful and very non shinobi methods to kill him e.g something Naruto would have not expected.I am not saying he would have been  sucessful with that,but the chance would have been probably higher.



And that changes that the upper limit of his potential is still MS... how?



Krippy said:


> and why is that?
> 
> because transplanting his brother's eyes will make him stronger, which is a process unique to the uchiha



Just like Naruto is unique in that he can become a Jinchuriki.

Both are outside sources, thus they were not born with them, thus it's not part of their potential.



> Naruto's has a large chakra capacity and a body suited for sage mode, nothing in the manga inplies that an uchiha wouldn't be able to become a perfect jin



Nothing implies that they can, negatives don't have to be proven. On the other hand, it's explicitly mentioned and shown that not everybody can be a Jinchuriki. How about you provide evidence that they can?



> EMS+Rinnegan > Kurama/SM



Nope 



> I'm done here since you have failed to refute my stance



I refuted every single one of your points. Bye bye.


----------



## Edo Madara (Mar 16, 2013)

Well if Naruto never have Kyuubi and his parents still alive, he will still have all his jutsu (minus kyuubi) plus Uzumaki jutsu that taught by his parents

Whereas Sasuke will never have CS and maybe he got MS but unless he takes itachi eyes, he will be blind

So I think it's Naruto


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## Krippy (Mar 16, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Just like Naruto is unique in that he can become a Jinchuriki.
> 
> Both are outside sources, thus they were not born with them, thus it's not part of their potential.



you dont have to be born with something for it to be considered a part of your peak power. this thread isnt a "who would be stronger without their gifts" thread, its a "who's lineage allows for the development of greater hax" thread, which you have failed to grasp



> Nothing implies that they can, negatives don't have to be proven. On the other hand, it's explicitly mentioned and shown that not everybody can be a Jinchuriki. How about you provide evidence that they can?



no proof that Sasuke can't become a jin? I thought so

Sasuke has already show to be able to incorperate senjutsu in his fighting style (Juin) and has shown to be compatible with Jugo, a natural energy user, so his body should be strong enough

anything else?



> Nope



the denial is strong with this one 



> I refuted every single one of your points. Bye bye.



concession accepted


----------



## Pirao (Mar 16, 2013)

Krippy said:


> you dont have to be born with something for it to be considered a part of your peak power. this thread isnt a "who would be stronger without their gifts" thread, its a "who's lineage allows for the development of greater hax" thread, which you have failed to grasp



I suggest you read the title.



> no proof that Sasuke can't become a jin? I thought so



A negative doesn't have to be proven, which anybody who has any idea about how to debate already knows. Of course, it's not surprising that you don't, since you're terrible at it.



> Sasuke has already show to be able to incorperate senjutsu in his fighting style (Juin) and has shown to be compatible with Jugo, a natural energy user, so his body should be strong enough
> 
> anything else?



Lol, no. That's you just talking out of your ass, without any proof whatsoever. All it means is he's compatible with the curse seal, that's it.



> the denial is strong with this one



Your denial? Yes, indeed.



> concession accepted



Weak bait. Shows how desperate you are, when you have to resort to this because all your arguments have been debunked, and also that you can't even follow your own words, I thought "you were done", why do you keep responding? Incoherent much?


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## PopoTime (Mar 16, 2013)

Not another narutard said:


> The point is Sasuke was born with the potential of awakening EMS while Naruto wasn't. On the other hand, both of them would've been able to learn sage mode. I don't remember anything suggesting that large reserve of chakra is needed to learn sage mode, btw



Fukasaku (Pa Toad) stated only those with naturally large chakra reserves (Jiraiya and Naruto) could even attempt Sage training, otherwise Natural Energy would consume a persons chakra supply too quickly to prevent the stone frog transformation.  Sasuke has never been shown to be a chakra beast on the scale of Jiraiya or Naruto, so i think he would not be able to learn SM


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## Veja24 (Mar 17, 2013)

Sasuke had more potential. He was born with bloodline limit, while Naruto wasn't born with Demon Fox inside of him.


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## Ernie (Mar 17, 2013)

Sasuke was born with more brains, Naruto with more guts and mentality. 

Both are unique in there own way.


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## Blu-ray (Mar 17, 2013)

Sasuke of course. Naruto has less potential than the average Joe. Of course, that matters little considering he has the Kyuubi. And I don't think the kyuubi is part of his potential.


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## Ernie (Mar 17, 2013)

VolatileSoul said:


> Sasuke of course. Naruto has less potential than the average Joe. Of course, that matters little considering he has the Kyuubi. And I don't think the kyuubi is part of his potential.



Naruto > Sasuke without the Kyuubi's power, look at the hospital scene part . Sasuke cheated afterwards with Oro's seal!


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## BurningVegeta (Mar 17, 2013)

PopoTime said:


> Sasuke has never been shown to be a chakra beast on the scale of Jiraiya or Naruto, so i think he would not be able to learn SM


Sasuke has a ton of Chakra.

Stated to have more Chakra than Kakashi when he was 12.
Battle at the Kage Summit, he thought he had enough Chakra to go against Danzo to despite Tobi grabbing him.
Did you watch him battle Itachi, he was spitting Chakra left right and centre.

Sasuke has very high reserves of Chakra... probably more than Jiraiya. Didn't exactly she him spamming Rasengan and other Ninjutsu when he needed to against Pein. Unlike Sasuke who uses MS 3 times at the Kage Summit participants and spams Chidori and is fine.


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## PureWIN (Mar 17, 2013)

Naruto. He was born after cooking in a Kyuubi chakra oven for 10 months + has the Uzumaki bloodline + large chakra reserves for SM + is extremely clever.

Sasuke is a mediocre genius (unlike Itachi and Kakashi) and has the Sharingan...and that's about it. If it wasn't for Itachi driving him forward with hatred, I'm not sure how strong he would've been if left alone.


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## Krippy (Mar 17, 2013)

Pirao said:


> I suggest you read the title.



and that's exactly what the title says, "potential" something which you fail to comprehend



> A negative doesn't have to be proven, which anybody who has any idea about how to debate already knows. Of course, it's not surprising that you don't, since you're terrible at it.


in order for your agreement to have weight you are going to have to prove that Naruto's body is "unique" enough to handle a jin, otherwise this can just be written off as plot

debating 101



> Lol, no. That's you just talking out of your ass, without any proof whatsoever. All it means is he's compatible with the curse seal, that's it.


hahaha yeah, that totally didn't just happen in the manga 

and what does the Juin do? it imbues him with Orochimaru's Senjutsu chakra and uses natural energy to give him a boost in power


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## BurningVegeta (Mar 17, 2013)

PureWIN said:


> Sasuke is a mediocre genius (unlike Itachi and Kakashi) and has the Sharingan...and that's about it. If it wasn't for Itachi driving him forward with hatred, I'm not sure how strong he would've been if left alone.


Sasuke himself noticed this when he was fighting Naruto inside the Valley of the End. So that is stated, he wouldn't have progressed much without intervention. He would have basic Sharingab, high Chakra, powerful Katon and a limited use of the Chidori.


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## kronus12 (Mar 17, 2013)

> .Lol, no. That's you just talking out of your ass, without any proof whatsoever. All it means is he's compatible with the curse seal, that's it.



Oro used the cs on his potential hosts to see who can use sage mode because  Oro wanted to be a perfect sage. That mean if we take out EMS and  Kuruma, Naruto just has sage mode while Sasuke has ms and sage mode.Whether or not Sasuke ever gets sage mode is moot because of his comparability with cs it is implied that he is compatible with senjutsu.


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## Drums (Mar 17, 2013)

I dont think we can tell that for sure, since we dont know how Naruto would have progressed if he hadnt had kyubi's chakra inside him to give him a boost.


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## Final Hyoten Hyakkaso (Mar 18, 2013)

So sasuke was born with the potential of EMS/Rinnegan now? .
Anyway, talking about potential for gifts.That too goes to Naruto.

Sasuke's potentials:Achieving Ems by taking his brother's eyes.Awakening rinnegan by implanting senju Dna in his body.

Naruto's potentials:Becoming the perfect jin of kurama or any other bijuu or may be even juubi.Awakening rinnegan by implanting the uchiha's eyes in his socket.

And before Uchiha fans start to flame me for saying Naruto can awaken rinnegan, Madara himself stated the power of uchiha and senju is needed for rinnegan.He never said an uchiha or EMS user needs senju dna to open rinnegan


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## TheCupOfBrew (Mar 18, 2013)

Read through the thread. Naruto was born with a bloodline ability. Uzumaki were feared because of their vitality, and stamina, as well as there sealing techniques. If we're measuring potential than Minato and Kushina would have been around to teach him various things. He would have most likely obtained flying thunder god, rasengan, and the various sealing techniques that Kushina would have known. 

Naruto was also said to have a huge amount of chakra, far outweighing a jonin with his chakra alone. It would make sense that the Uzumaki with their vitality, and stamina also came with very large reserves of chakra. 

Speculation aisde Naruto would also have Jiriaya as a mentor as well as his mother, and father.

While Sasuke was born witht he ability to unlock the sharingan, and mangekyo sharingan. Eternal MS is in no way part of his potential as he needed Itachi's eyes to accomplish that. If you were to give Sasuke that, then we can say Naruto had the potential to become the perfect jinchuriki for Kurama.


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## Pirao (Mar 18, 2013)

Krippy said:


> and that's exactly what the title says, "potential" something which you fail to comprehend



 "Who was born with more potential?" Was Sasuke born with Itachi's eyes? No.



> in order for your agreement to have weight you are going to have to prove that Naruto's body is "unique" enough to handle a jin, otherwise this can just be written off as plot
> 
> debating 101



It's already stated in the manga. Yamato said it "it's thanks to your powerful chakra that you can withstand the Kyubi" when they're searching for Sasuke. Further examples when Kushina was brought to Konoha to be a Jinchuriki because of special chakra, Gaara being suited to be a Jinchuriki when his brothers weren't, and Bee being suited to be a Jinchuriki when his predecessors failed and died. You ignoring canon doesn't change the facts. Where's your evidence that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki? Nowhere, because there is none.



> hahaha yeah, that totally didn't just happen in the manga
> 
> and what does the Juin do? it imbues him with Orochimaru's Senjutsu chakra and uses natural energy to give him a boost in power



Where did I say it didn't happen? I said being compatible with cursed seal =/= from being able to master SM.

So? That's what the cursed seal does, do something that the user can't do by himself.


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## Okodi (Mar 18, 2013)

Naruto has more potential IMO. He works hard, seems to have some great shape manipulation, is able to add a nature element to the highest form of shape manipulation and can add more power into his attacks with his huge chakra reserves.

Sasuke is close with his great chakra quality and his intellect. But his chakra reserves won't allow him to tango with Naruto for very long.


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## Drums (Mar 18, 2013)

Let's be real for a moment, here.
Uzumaki stamina is one thing and kyubi chakra is another. 

I guess his uzumaki bloodline would have assisted Naruto in many cases but you just cant compare it to the level of chakra boost that the kyubi gives him. It even helped him heal a lot faster than was normal. Anyways the point is we've only seen naruto progressing while he had kyubi in him and we havent seen how he'd fare without it. So while I'm sure his bloodline would have provided him with the necessary chakra and stamina to learn and perform some specific jutsus, kyubi's chakra has always been there to help him through and  achieve jutsus and things he possibly might not have been able to without it.

I'm not saying Naruto's potential without the kyubi is definately less than Sasuke's, I'm just saying this is something to take into consideration.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Mar 18, 2013)

StrawHeart said:


> Let's be real for a moment, here.
> Uzumaki stamina is one thing and kyubi chakra is another.
> 
> I guess his uzumaki bloodline would have assisted Naruto in many cases but you just cant compare it to the level of chakra boost that the kyubi gives him. It even helped him heal a lot faster than was normal. Anyways the point is we've only seen naruto progressing while he had kyubi in him and we havent seen how he'd fare without it. So while I'm sure his bloodline would have provided him with the necessary chakra and stamina to learn and perform some specific jutsus, kyubi's chakra has always been there to help him through and  achieve jutsus and things he possibly might not have been able to without it.
> ...


he has a hundred times as much chakra as a normal shinobi. even without the kyuubi, he has enough chakra to do whatever the hell he wants. 
the only jutsu the kyuubis chakra has helped him learn is summoning. other than that, it actually hampered is ability to learn.

edit: are the mods fucking around with the poll?


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## fleaky (Mar 18, 2013)

Okodi said:


> Sasuke is close with his great chakra quality and his intellect. But his chakra reserves won't allow him to tango with Naruto for very long.


 sasuke is not smarter than naruto...


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2013)

fleaky said:


> sasuke is not smarter than naruto...



*In battle?* No. In the past he was because Naruto was a total Berserker. Fighting without thinking. He made that up with incredible mentality and guts (however he already got the reputation 'most surprising ninja at part 1' and his way to defeat Neji was simple amazing). But now Naruto has become more mature and he can remain calm when fighting. His last fights were pure genius. 

*In normal live?* Yes. I think Sasuke would be better in, for example, maths then Naruto.  

But we are talking about shinobi and about fighting so I would say both are very clever in battle.


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## fleaky (Mar 18, 2013)

Ernie said:


> Sasuke was born with more brains, Naruto with more guts and mentality.
> 
> Both are unique in there own way.


  you mean itachi?... sasuke acting like dumb child after itachi dead



Ernie said:


> *In battle?* No. In the past he was because Naruto was a total Berserker. Fighting without thinking. He made that up with incredible mentality and guts (however he already got the reputation 'most surprising ninja at part 1' and his way to defeat Neji was simple amazing). But now Naruto has become more mature and he can remain calm when fighting. His last fights were pure genius.
> 
> .


 lol. naruto fight stile: attack-thinking-attack-win. sasuke fight style:think-attack-attack-lose... sasuke not smart genius like shika


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2013)

fleaky said:


> you mean itachi?... sasuke acting like dumb child after itachi dead



I agree on Sasuke acting like a total retarded bitch after Itachi died. But still I can't deny the fact Sasuke is also very clever in battle.


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## fleaky (Mar 18, 2013)

Ernie said:


> I agree on Sasuke acting like a total retarded bitch after Itachi died. But still I can't deny the fact Sasuke is also very clever in battle.


 like naruto in part two


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2013)

fleaky said:


> like naruto in part two



I already mentioned that.  

People who still say Naruto is not thinking in battle and just fights like a brainless berserker, should be ignored because of bad trolling/ridiculous hating!


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## TheCupOfBrew (Mar 18, 2013)

Personally I hate Sasukes fighting style after he got MS.


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## Yagura (Mar 18, 2013)

Sasuke, easily. Naruto is just some guy who got lucky and had the Fourth Hokage as a father.


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## fleaky (Mar 18, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Sasuke, easily. Naruto is just some guy who got lucky and had the Fourth Hokage as a father.


 sasuke lucky born in uchiha clan


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## Ernie (Mar 18, 2013)

Yagura said:


> Sasuke, easily. Naruto is just some guy who got lucky and had the Fourth Hokage as a father.





Yes, Naruto was lucky! He was born with a beast inside of him. He and the Kyubi were best friends from the start. Dat lucky bastard! 


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Again! Again! Again! Again! Again! Again! Again! Again!




Sasuke was born with techniques (his eyes) where he didn't need to train for, he just had them just like that. This while Naruto trained hardcore for most of his powers. Say what you want, but calling him lucky? He became so strong because of his hard work and mentality, face it.


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## Ben B (Mar 18, 2013)

Naruto, being a Uzumaki/Senju (note that it is implied to master sage mode you need to have a capable body), was born with the potential to master SM, and Sasuke was born with the potential for MS at best. SM Naruto > MS Sasuke. Had Minato survived, he would presumably also master FTG so in the best of all possible worlds, it would be SM FTG Naruto >>> MS Sasuke gg.


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## Fay (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm surprised about the poll results, never thought library would actually admit Sasuke being better than Naruto in any way. 
My vote is for Sasuke, for reasons others have mentioned already.


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## eyeknockout (Mar 23, 2013)

naruto. he was born with the genes of a hokage and the genes of an uzumaki who instantly carries very high life energy and chakra.

sasuke only was born with uchiha genes


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## Blur (Mar 23, 2013)

Whoever said Naruto is in denial.


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## PopoTime (Mar 23, 2013)

People who argue Sasuke has the potentia to get EMS naturally is delusional.

In that case, why dont we just say Naruto can get the Rinnegan naturally by Tnjing Itachi into gouging his own eyes and combine that with his naturally senju-rific DNA to form the Rinnegan?


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## Krippy (Mar 23, 2013)

Pirao said:


> :It's already stated in the manga. Yamato said it "it's thanks to your powerful chakra that you can withstand the Kyubi" when they're searching for Sasuke. Further examples when Kushina was brought to Konoha to be a Jinchuriki because of special chakra, Gaara being suited to be a Jinchuriki when his brothers weren't, and Bee being suited to be a Jinchuriki when his predecessors failed and died. You ignoring canon doesn't change the facts. Where's your evidence that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki? Nowhere, because there is none.



Sasuke's chakra has been noted as being powerful by the kyuubi himself. there is no canon that even hints at sasuke not being able to be a Jin

even Obito implies that either him or Sasuke will be the juubi's jin, as madara can't because he's and edo

the ball is in you court to prove sasuke doesn't have what it takes to be a jin, but you have no proof, as usual



> Where did I say it didn't happen? I said being compatible with cursed seal =/= from being able to master SM.


your response made it sound like you were ignoring manga canon that I had used in my earlier post

All I now is that Sasuke mastered his Juin and is compatible with Juugo, a natural energy user, how this plays out later on in the manga is something we have to wait and see



> So? That's what the cursed seal does, do something that the user can't do by himself.


and the user has to learn to control the natural energy and use it to it's full potential, which is what sasuke did


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## Pirao (Mar 23, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke's chakra has been noted as being powerful by the kyuubi himself. there is no canon that even hints at sasuke not being able to be a Jin



No, it has been noted to be as sinister as Madara's. Also powerful chakra =/= to having huge chakra reserves (Naruto has both). A negative doesn't have to be proven, as I've already said. Where's your proof that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki? Nowhere, because there is none.



> even Obito implies that either him *or Sasuke will be the juubi's jin*, as madara can't because he's and edo



Sure he does 



> the ball is in you court to prove sasuke doesn't have what it takes to be a jin, but you have no proof, as usual



I don't have to prove a negative. You are the one who has to give evidence towards the fact that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki, and so far you have provided 0, as you'll continue to do, because there is none 



> and the user has to learn to control the natural energy and use it to it's full potential, which is what sasuke did



Controling the cursed seal =/= to learning sage mode. It's pretty easy to understand, actually.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 23, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> naruto. he was born with the genes of a hokage and the genes of an uzumaki who instantly carries very high life energy and chakra.


Maybe you should really take a course in biology.

Being born the child of the president of the United States doesn't net you anything special genetically. 



> sasuke only was born with uchiha genes


Which nets you the "Sages" chakara and access to the sharingan.

Sasuke's heritage has taken him further than Naruto's own heritage.

Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi.

And if both were to have kids....

Sasuke's child would carry the propensity to carry everything he possesses bar the eternal Mangekyou.

Naruto's child would not.


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## fleaky (Mar 23, 2013)

SM better MS... THIS NATURAL POTENTIAL NARUTO AND SASUKE


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## PikaCheeka (Mar 23, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> naruto. *he was born with the genes of a hokage *and the genes of an uzumaki who instantly carries very high life energy and chakra.
> 
> sasuke only was born with uchiha genes





Brilliant. He was the son of a guy who was given office! He has the genes of an official! He has more potential than those that don't!

This only works in economic situations.


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## animeguy91 (Mar 24, 2013)

fleaky said:


> SM better MS... THIS NATURAL POTENTIAL NARUTO AND SASUKE



That isn't potential that's just listing what they happen to get. Naruto could have gotten nothing and never reached his potential, but he would still have potential.


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## fleaky (Mar 24, 2013)

animeguy91 said:


> That isn't potential that's just listing what they happen to get. Naruto could have gotten nothing and never reached his potential, but he would still have potential.


 i mean sasuke  born with natural potential to awaken MS and naruto born natural potential to learn SM


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## IpHr0z3nI (Mar 24, 2013)

fleaky said:


> i mean sasuke  born with natural potential to awaken MS and naruto born natural potential to learn SM



But only one deals with genetics.

Sasuke could learn Kirin, raiton, etc. etc.

Much like Naruto learned SM.

The key word is BORN, as in it exist in ones genetics.

SM isn't a genetically induced feature.

Naruto's propensity to learn it shouldn't be included, as one would have to incorporate things Sasuke could learn as well.

And even in that regards doesn't the sharingan possess an ability to copy other variations of jutsus?


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## Krippy (Mar 24, 2013)

Pirao said:


> No, it has been noted to be as sinister as Madara's. Also powerful chakra =/= to having huge chakra reserves (Naruto has both). A negative doesn't have to be proven, as I've already said. Where's your proof that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki? Nowhere, because there is none.


concession accepted, you have nothing that says he cant be a Jin, so there is no need to continue this any further


> Sure he does


 of using it
 of using it

ignoring manga canon again?

either obito dies and madara becomes a jin or sasuke gets it


> I don't have to prove a negative. You are the one who has to give evidence towards the fact that Sasuke can be a Jinchuriki, and so far you have provided 0, as you'll continue to do, because there is none


so what is the criteria to become a jin and what is sasuke lacking?



> Controling the cursed seal =/= to learning sage mode. It's pretty easy to understand, actually.



natural energy is natural energy, one version just happens to be perfected

deal with it


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## JiraiyaRIP (Mar 24, 2013)

Pirao said:


> Just a reminder, Naruto has still SM without Kyubi, while Sasuke would be almost blind without Itachi's eyes.



Sasuke left Konoha due to Itachi. Without him he would have stayed, kept his normal sharingan and Sasuke could learn SM as well. Sharingan + SM = superior.

Truth is Sasuke will always have an innate bloodline Naruto will never have. All the techniques Naruto learns Sasuke can learn as well + he can do it faster.

So when it comes to talent at birth. You have to admit Sasuke.


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## fleaky (Mar 24, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> But only one deals with genetics.
> 
> Sasuke could learn Kirin, raiton, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


 uzumaki DNA(big chakra pool)=chance to learn SM



JiraiyaRIP said:


> Sasuke left Konoha due to Itachi. Without him he would have stayed, kept his normal sharingan and Sasuke could learn SM as well. Sharingan + SM = superior.
> 
> Truth is Sasuke will always have an innate bloodline Naruto will never have. All the techniques Naruto learns Sasuke can learn as well + he can do it faster.
> 
> So when it comes to talent at birth. You have to admit Sasuke.


 lol. sasuke can learn sage mode? no. sasuke can copy rasengan? no...you just sasuke fan


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## PopoTime (Mar 24, 2013)

JiraiyaRIP said:


> Sasuke left Konoha due to Itachi. Without him he would have stayed, kept his normal sharingan and Sasuke could learn SM as well. Sharingan + SM = superior.
> 
> Truth is Sasuke will always have an innate bloodline Naruto will never have. All the techniques Naruto learns Sasuke can learn as well + he can do it faster.
> 
> So when it comes to talent at birth. You have to admit Sasuke.



Please provide scans of Sasuke copying any of Naruto's techniques

While your at it please somehow confirm that Sasuke even has the chakra capacity requirement to learn SM.


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## Miyoshi (Mar 24, 2013)

If the Kin&Gin bros gained a power up from eating kyuubi insides, Naruto would've probably had a bigger one. His entire time in the womb was shared with kyuubi being stored in Kushina body.

His Uzumaki blood was a given.

I need more specifics on this. I don't know what all we're taking into account here.


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## Okodi (Mar 25, 2013)

tracking



Hmm, what was the point of your picture again?

To "fight" Sasuke means something like subdue him and not kill him. You need more strength to subdue someone than you need to kill someone.


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## Ernie (Mar 25, 2013)

(he already asked for this after his little power-fight vs Base (!) Naruto)


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## Punished Pathos (Mar 25, 2013)

Ernie said:


> (he already asked for this after his little power-fight vs Base (!) Naruto)



Because he was going blind.
Your posts mean nothing. 
I'm a better poster than you, I understand the manga better than you.
You hold no weight in the KT and KL.
Go back to the HoU and continue making that Three Bosses fanfic/edit

You won't win here.
Stop trying to oppose me, no one is going to agree with you.


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## Ernie (Mar 25, 2013)

Pathos Grim said:


> Because he was going blind.
> Your posts mean nothing.
> I'm a better poster than you, I understand the manga better than you.
> You hold no weight in the KT and KL.
> ...





With this post you prove you can't win this, so you start to show off about your own discussion skills... wich are, btw, not impressive at all. 


First the 'cheating seal' from Orochimaru (because Sasuke knew Itachi > him and he saw Naruto became stronger and stronger, it seems he couldn't handle it so he went to Cheating Master Orochimaru) and then Itachi's eyes. What's next? Maybe Obito's eyes?


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## darknos (Mar 25, 2013)

I voted sasuke, because sharingan are badass, however i'm pretty sure both of them were born with immense potential, more so than most characters in this manga.


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## Bonly (Mar 25, 2013)

Naruto wasn't born with Kurama inside of him so potential wise, Sasuke was born with more with being an Uchiha. If you add in Kurama then Naruto was born with more potential.


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## blk (Mar 25, 2013)

"Who was born with more potential?" 

Do this question take plot into consideration? Because if yes, everyone already know the answer and there is no room for debates and opinions.

But if this is without considering the plot, there are a whole lot of problems.
Should we assume that they born in the same situation as in canon? And if not, does it mean that Konoha wasn't attacked by the Kyuubi? And if not, who did stop the Kyuubi?
Or, should we assume that Obito wasn't convinced by Madara and never planned to attack Konoha?
But there are more, more questions that need an answer.

As far as i'm concerned, outside of the plot, everyone has the potential to become the Juubi Jinchuuriki and rule the world (even if the chances of happening are slim, these exist).

In this matter, the potential is meaningless, the circumstances (which determine the result) are the only thing of value.


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## Pirao (Mar 25, 2013)

Krippy said:


> concession accepted, you have nothing that says he cant be a Jin, so there is no need to continue this any further
> 
> implies
> implies



The only concession that is accepted, is you conceding to not knowing how to debate. Negatives don't have to be proven, so where's your evidence towards Sasuke being able to be a Jinchuriki? I'm waiting.



> ignoring manga canon again?
> 
> either obito dies and madara becomes a jin or sasuke gets it



No, I don't need to ignore canon to make my points, unlike your arguments which are entirely based on assumptions. 

]Obito has Hashirama's DNA. Do you not know what boldening text means?



> so what is the criteria to become a jin and what is sasuke lacking?



The needed special chakra to become a Jinchuriki. Where's your evidence that he can? Still waiting.




> natural energy is natural energy, one version just happens to be perfected
> 
> deal with it



Lol, no. Curse seal gathers energy for the user, it gives the user an ability that otherwise he wouldn't have. 

Naruto has SM and Sasuke doesn't, thus he would eventually go blind and be a weakling, deal with it.


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## PikaCheeka (Mar 25, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> But only one deals with genetics.
> 
> Sasuke could learn Kirin, raiton, etc. etc.
> 
> ...



This, seriously... Why are people even still arguing about this? It isn't even a question about who is stronger now.

You can't say being born an Uzumaki is superior to being born an Uchiha because the only notable Uzumaki were either jinnchuurikis (not something any of them were born with), or they were Nagato, who only gained power when Madara gave him the Rinnegan (also not something he was born with). Meanwhile you have notable Uchiha who developed powers they were naturally born with.


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## 4ghost (Mar 25, 2013)

I wonder how this argument would change, should it turn out to be a fact the the Sage of Six Paths was actually born an Uzumaki.


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## Ben B (Mar 25, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> This, seriously... Why are people even still arguing about this? It isn't even a question about who is stronger now.
> 
> You can't say being born an Uzumaki is superior to being born an Uchiha because the only notable Uzumaki were either jinnchuurikis (not something any of them were born with), or they were Nagato, who only gained power when Madara gave him the Rinnegan (also not something he was born with). Meanwhile you have notable Uchiha who developed powers they were naturally born with.



Because the potential for mastering the SM is a hereditary trait; it has been implied that SM is related to the body of the sage through the younger son: Kabuto remarks that Oro failed to master it because of a lack of a capable body (Kabuto himself went further in self experimentation with his own body and bypassed this problem), the toad sage claimed you need very high chakra reserves/capacity for SM and Juugos clan was said to be connected with SM in having a KG that works somewhat like SM (in using natural energy). 

Only Hashirama (a full blooded Senju) and Naruto (at the very least a half Senju/Uzumaki) have been able to naturally master SM; Jiraiya and Oro failed and Kabuto only managed to do so after extreme self experimentation with his own body. Uchiha are not born with the sharingan, awakening it, especially the MS, requires an external stimulus, I don't see we should treat SM as different simply because the process involves learning.


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## PikaCheeka (Mar 25, 2013)

Ben B said:


> Because the potential for mastering the SM is a hereditary trait; it has been implied that SM is related to the body of the sage through the younger son: Kabuto remarks that Oro failed to master it because of a lack of a capable body (Kabuto himself went further in self experimentation with his own body and bypassed this problem), the toad sage claimed you need very high chakra reserves/capacity for SM and Juugos clan was said to be connected with SM in having a KG that works somewhat like SM (in using natural energy).
> 
> Only Hashirama (a full blooded Senju) and Naruto (at the very least a half Senju/Uzumaki) have been able to naturally master SM; Jiraiya and Oro failed and Kabuto only managed to do so after extreme self experimentation with his own body. *Uchiha are not born with the sharingan, awakening it, especially the MS, requires an external stimulus, I don't see we should treat SM as different simply because the process involves learning.*



They are not even remotely the same thing, because the sharingan awakening is actually an equivalent of maturing in life. One does not truly become an adult without loss.


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## Chibason (Mar 25, 2013)

Sasuke, obviously...his potential was much more than what Naruto could have dreamed of attaining had he not become the Kyuubi jinchuuriki and, furthermore, mastered it.


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## limbo Kakashi (Mar 25, 2013)

Ben B said:


> Because the potential for mastering the SM is a hereditary trait



Lol, all it says is large pool of chakra is needed. Sage mode is not hereditory 



> ; it has been implied that SM is related to the body of the sage through the younger son



No, it was never implied or stated



> : Kabuto remarks that Oro failed to master it because of a lack of a capable body (Kabuto himself went further in self experimentation with his own body and bypassed this problem),



This bodies being implied are those without huge chakra reserves.



> the toad sage claimed you need very high chakra reserves/capacity for SM and Juugos clan was said to be connected with SM in having a KG that works somewhat like SM (in using natural energy)


. 

Your point here?



> Uchiha are not born with the sharingan, awakening it, especially the MS, requires an external stimulus, I don't see we should treat SM as different simply because the process involves learning.



You really don't have any idea what you're talking about at all. 

Awakening something that's inherentely a genetical feature is still the same as being born with it.

Sage mode is not awakened, it's learned


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## Ben B (Mar 25, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> This, seriously... Why are people even still arguing about this? It isn't even a question about who is stronger now.
> 
> You can't say being born an Uzumaki is superior to being born an Uchiha because the only notable Uzumaki were either jinnchuurikis (not something any of them were born with), or they were Nagato, who only gained power when Madara gave him the Rinnegan (also not something he was born with). Meanwhile you have notable Uchiha who developed powers they were naturally born with.




The sharingan maybe but the MS requires the death of a relative or close friend and it has been stated in the manga that the Uchiha typically resorted to murdering their best friends to awaken their MS, this is obviously not a natural endeavour in life and requires a conscious effort on the part of the individual just like SM. 
The fact is that you need to have the Biology to be able to master SM, not everyone can master it and so I do not see why we should not include the Biological potential for mastery of SM in Narutos innate potential.





AumaanAnubis said:


> Lol, all it says is large pool of chakra is needed. Sage mode is not hereditory
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Chakra capacity is hereditary, Naruto at the age of 12 had several times the chakra capacity of Kakashi as stated by Kakshi himself (with kyuubi it was said to be 100x), obviously the cause of this genetic (the fact that Naruto was an Uzumaki). The Senju/Uzumaki clans KG was high chakra reserves meaning that as a population, their average chakra capacity was far greater than that of non-Senju/Uzumaki.

I am not claiming they are one and the same thing, merely that they are so effectively, the issue isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is. Here is a real life analogy: Speed (as in sprinting) is actually mostly a hereditary trait related to the biology of fast twitch muscle fibres or whatnot, some people like Usain Bolt are born with capacities of these fibres far greater than the human average. Now Usain Bolt obviously needed to train to realize his potential but the fact remains that he was born with his potential, I could train my ass off but I am not going to become as fast as Usain Bolt. The principle is the same with SM, if you do not have the chakra reserves, you are not going to master SM.


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## dark messiah verdandi (Mar 25, 2013)

I think the answer is sasuke.

His sharingan and inton affinity is better than naruto's Yoton Affinity.


>
As far as all that sage mode business goes, Sasuke is obviously a candidate for being able to use it, as he absorbed the curse seal perfectly.

CS1 is as far as I can tell, sage mode. Boosts him by ten times, gives him crazy pigment,ect.
CS2 is the sage transformation.

The whole thing about sage mode is that it eats the chakra used to transform. That is why it is inferior to sage mode. You mold nature energy into sage mode, and even after 5 minutes, if you don't spend any, the natural energy just dissipates and the chakra changes back to normal.


The curse seal draws it in without volunteering, in an effort to permanently bind the host to orochimaru.
It's designed that way, so that it completely takes your will over.


Sasuke had the evil binding seal on top of his, so he never actually got so far that his chakra was consumed completely.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 20, 2013)

natural potential naruto= chance to learn SM. natural potential sasuke=  chance to awaken 3 tomoe sharingan... SM better sharingan... sasuke and naruto not born with atural potential to MS, EMS, KSM and BM


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## PikaCheeka (Jun 20, 2013)

Could Naruto have even gotten Sage Mode without the toads?

I don't think so.

The toads were not born with him.


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius.
> 
> In other words Sasuke.



No, he was just the guy that learned the Rasengan in like three days and perfected Sage Mode. 

No talent at all.


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## egressmadara (Jun 20, 2013)

Naruto. As a Jinchuriki, his potential is enormous. While Sasuke was born as an Uchiha, his potential in comparison to a Jinchuriki isn't great.


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## Hayn (Jun 20, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Could Naruto have even gotten Sage Mode without the toads?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> The toads were not born with him.



So if Naruto's sage mode dosnt count, why does the sharingan? Dont you need an outside source to influence the growth of the sharingan?


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## KingBoo (Jun 20, 2013)

the main character because...he is the main character.


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## Krippy (Jun 20, 2013)

this refuses to die 



egressmadara said:


> Naruto. As a Jinchuriki, his potential is enormous. While Sasuke was born as an Uchiha, his potential in comparison to a Jinchuriki isn't great.



Naruto wasn't born a Jin.



Hayn said:


> So if Naruto's sage mode dosnt count, why does the sharingan? Dont you need an outside source to influence the growth of the sharingan?



Sage Mode is a technique, not a bloodline like the Sharingan.

Sasuke was born a genius with the potential to awaken eye powers that would make him one of the strongest living characters in his verse while Naruto was born with a strong life force and the body needed to house a Jin. Cooperating with Kurama makes him one of the strongest characters in the world.


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## ImSerious (Jun 20, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Could Naruto have even gotten Sage Mode without the toads?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> The toads were not born with him.



If the toads arent allowed to train naruto then kakashi and oro arent allowed to train sasuke.


They werent born with him.


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## αce (Jun 20, 2013)

As someone pointed out, if this takes into consideration the plot, then this isn't even a debate to be completely honest. If not, then it's slightly equal with Sasuke probably having a slight lead.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 20, 2013)

PikaCheeka said:


> Could Naruto have even gotten Sage Mode without the toads?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> The toads were not born with him.


 naruto born with natural potential  and chakra pool to learn sage mode 





Krippy said:


> this refuses to die
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
naruto born with potential to seal kurama inside
sharingan it s  bloodline technique 
sasuke born with  natural potential only for 3 tomoe sharingan... even part one gaara is stronger than sasuke with sharingan 
MS  and EMS  is not natural sasuke power like kurama not natural naruto power
naruto natural potential (chance to learn sage mode)>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sasuke natural potential ( 3 tomoed sharingan) and it s manga fact



αce said:


> As someone pointed out, if this takes into consideration the plot, then this isn't even a debate to be completely honest. If not, then it's slightly equal with Sasuke probably having a slight lead.


 so natural sasuke potential ( 3 tomoed sharingan) might beat natural naruto potential ( sage mode) ?


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## Bruce Wayne (Jun 20, 2013)

Krippy said:


> this refuses to die
> 
> 
> 
> Naruto wasn't born a Jin.



But he was born as the successor of the RS. Therefore he has the potential to be a God.


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## ImSerious (Jun 20, 2013)

minato's sperm cell would obviously have the highest potential in the entire verse.


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## Krippy (Jun 20, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> But he was born as the successor of the RS. Therefore he has the potential to be a God.



keep telling yourself that


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 20, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> minato's sperm cell would obviously have the highest potential in the entire verse.


 hashirama sperm....


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## ImSerious (Jun 20, 2013)

queen of waterfalls said:


> hashirama sperm....



hashi's sperm cell doesnt even have a name


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 20, 2013)

ImSerious said:


> hashi's sperm cell doesnt even have a name


 power drink?


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## ImSerious (Jun 20, 2013)

more like irrelevant nobody.


minato's sperm cell is the main character, the reincarnation of Riduko himself.


GG


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## Euraj (Jun 20, 2013)

*Opens thread, sees people arguing about the name of skeet*

*Leaves thread*


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## Bruce Wayne (Jun 20, 2013)

Krippy said:


> keep telling yourself that



I'm only stating facts from the manga.


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## Rai (Jun 20, 2013)

Minato's sperm cell


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## Hayn (Jun 20, 2013)

This is possibly the worst conversation I have ever seen. People saying Naruto Dosnt have a natural affinity towards sage mode, despite him completely mastering in days. But yes he wasn't born with it so it's not one of his natural abilities. How does that count him out? Yeah he had the toads train him, but everyone has outside influence. Sasukes sharingan is natural but how was it awakened? Oh right, an outside influence: Itachi. Using the same logic, sasuke can only awaken the sharingan with outside help, exactly how naruto learned sage mode with outside help.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jun 20, 2013)

IIRC because naruto was born to a uzumaki(kushina) kurama said he was the only current person that could resonate perfectly with his chakra. To me that is a huge amount of potential right there. Naruto is also a perfect canidate for SM due to his heritage. 

Sasuke is born with the potential to get the rinnegan which is the highest power of dojutsu. Other than that he should have inherited a natrual affinity for fire style and maybe weapon usage.

Even without the whole child of prophecy/savior of the world thing in naruto's corner i see him having the most potential.


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## Turrin (Jun 20, 2013)

Naruto would obviously still have more potential due to being the Main character.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 20, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Naruto would obviously still have more potential due to being the Main character.


 its very stupid reason


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## crisler (Jun 21, 2013)

i used to believe sasuke had better potential since his powers were solely his own, 

but then again, without itachis' eyes he says in MS.

so it's a match between

naruto without kyuubi vs Ms sasuke.

whether naruto would learn SM without kyuubi (which contributed to his large chakra pool) is debatable, but excluding this,

SM naruto and MS sasuke are probably similar but I'd give this to naruto.


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## Grimm6Jack (Jun 21, 2013)

Naruto because he was born with huge stamina = lots of clones = greater growth and Naruto would've had SM while Sasuke without the Cursed Seal or Itachi's eyes would've been blind by now.

And yeah, SM Naruto > MS Sasuke.


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## Hayn (Jun 21, 2013)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke was born a genius with the potential to awaken eye powers that would make him one of the strongest living characters in his verse while Naruto was born with a strong life force and the body needed to house a Jin. Cooperating with Kurama makes him one of the strongest characters in the world.



So Naruto has 0 potential for sage mode?


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## crisler (Jun 21, 2013)

Hayn said:


> So Naruto has 0 potential for sage mode?



it's debatable if naruto had the large chakra pool enough to learn sagemode even without the kyuubi.

The kyuubi contributed to the large chakra pool that naruto possessed...

it could go either way, but for now it's difficult to completely remove the kyuubi from naruto and say for certain that he'd have learned/mastered SM the same way he did today.


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## Krippy (Jun 21, 2013)

Hayn said:


> So Naruto has 0 potential for sage mode?



"strong life force and large chakra" is what I said. The requirements for Sage Mode. It's pretty much the limit of his potential If he never received Kurama, while EMS and to a lesser degree Rinnegan are part of Sasuke's potential because they are evolutions of the Sharingan, which lies in his bloodline.


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## Pain In The Ass (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm not a sauce wanker but imo he had more potential from the beginning. Naruto gained some plot shields along the way which gave him cool boosts though


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## Nic (Jun 21, 2013)

being the son of Mikoto and Fugaku kind of pales in comparison to being that of Minato and Kushina in terms of genetics.  You add the kyuubi with that afterwards and it's just.....


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## Kazekage Gaara (Jun 21, 2013)

If the Kyuubi's incident didn't happen, he would recieve instructions from Minato, his chakra control wouldn't be fucked up, and eventually he would have become a new Minato, maybe even better then him if he learned Sage Mode.


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## PopoTime (Jun 21, 2013)

Pain In The Ass said:


> I'm not a sauce wanker but imo he had more potential from the beginning. Naruto gained some plot shields along the way which gave him cool boosts though



Implying that the Sharingan isnt just one massive plot shield


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## Radice (Jun 21, 2013)

Uchiha Clan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uzumaki Clan



Sasuke has a lot of more potential than Naruto.
without Kyuubi, in the current fase of manga he has no match against Sasuke...

Sasuke also alwalys  was called a genius unlike Naruto


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## PopoTime (Jun 21, 2013)

Radice said:


> Uchiha Clan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uzumaki Clan
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sasuke's potential is limited to MS, considering this is at-birth potential

By your in-manga logic, Sasuke would be blind due to overusing MS, dat potential 

Without Kurama, Naruto would still have his parents, meaning Perfect SM, Hiraishin and Fuinjutsu knowledge, whilst still retaining his Rasengan varients

The phrase "Genius" has no bearing on a characters potential.

Neji was called a genius because he learned Main Branch techniques faster than others, Rock Lee was called a genius because he can brute force his way to opening 5 Gates

By this logic, Naruto should also be called a Genius, considering he mastered various jutsu in a very short timespan.


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## Radice (Jun 21, 2013)

If the Uchiha clan wasn't destroyed.
Sasuke will train with Itachi.    

Oh GOD.
Sasuke  training with Orochimaru  and Naruto with Jiraiya both Sannins


We saw the huge difference between Sasuke and Naruto after time skip.

Nardo only learned a New Rasengan. 
Sasuke by other hand  learned Chidori Variations,  Genjutsus, Kenjutsu, New Katons and KIRIN..

Sasuke has more potential and is a lot of more intelligent than Naruto.


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## maupp (Jun 21, 2013)

Minato's sper cell ....

But seriously, Naruto's potential are far greater than Sasukes, even if we remove outside factor, Naruto's potential still shit on the sauce 

Also Naruto is the heir to Rikudou senin himself, he was born with the potential to be equal to RS ...tell Sasuke to try and beat that


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 21, 2013)

MS is not natural sasuke  potential 





Radice said:


> Uchiha Clan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Uzumaki Clan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 lol. saucefans 





Yankees Fanboy said:


> Sasuke is a technical genius, he can develop beyond the sharingans inborn traits like Minato and Orochimaru did. His skills can over compensate Naruto's skills beyond just sage and jinnchuriki power ups Sasuke is actually intelligent and ingenius as a fighter and can create more on the fly techniques than Naruto can who just is creative with a basis of few jutsus.


 


many  sasuke tech not work without sharingan
his skill always around sharingan
sasuke not smart genius like minato or shikamaru
sasuke create only variation of  chidory and enton... its equals rasengan variation


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 21, 2013)

no itachi sacrifice= no MS  for sasuke


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## Rain (Jun 21, 2013)

ppl bornwithmost potential are itachi-sama, rs-hodor, sasuke-kun and naruto-chan, that's it.


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## Radice (Jun 21, 2013)

queen of waterfalls said:


> no itachi sacrifice= no MS  for sasuke




Naruto's death in the valley of end = MS sasuke


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 21, 2013)

Radice said:


> Naruto's death in the valley of end = MS sasuke


 its not natural sasuke potential


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## Radice (Jun 21, 2013)

queen of waterfalls said:


> MS is not natural sasuke  potential  lol. saucefans
> 
> 
> many  sasuke tech not work without sharingan
> ...





Sandaime about Orochimaru:


*Spoiler*: __ 






[



Orochimaru about Sasuke:


*Spoiler*: __ 



[


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## Bansai (Jun 21, 2013)

I really do believe that Naruto was the one who was born with more potential. I know that Sasuke's Sharingan is unbelievably powerful, but Naruto was born with so much more than just Kurama. He also had Minato's and Kushina's chakra withing him, who helped him keeping Kurama under control in case Naruto is not capable of doing so (although now this can't be considered an advantage anymore, as Naruto can already control Kurama perfectly). And he also has the Uzumaki Clan's regeneration ability, ALTHOUGH it seems to be far inferioir to Kushina's and Karin's regeneration ability (probably because he is not a full member of the Uzumaki Clan).
In addition it was said that Naruto has an unbelievable amount of chakra. And finally, he was born with a Sensei from the very start. I think Jiraiya was planning on being Naruto's Sensei the moment he knew about his existence. Tsunade and Jiraiya both knew that Minato was his father before Naruto did after all. 
Sasuke on the other hand was born with no one to support or protect him. Itachi's options were limited, and Orochimaru wasn't looking for Sasuke from the very start. He was aming for someone with Sharingan, that's all. It could have been everyone. But as he noticed that Itachi was above his level, he went for his little brother instead, and this is why the reason why he taught him Ninjutsu in the first place. Sasuke's "friends" were not determined when he was born. Naruto's, however, was. As the son of the fourth Hokage, he was basically born with Jiraiya as his Sensei.


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## Gunners (Jun 21, 2013)

Naruto, without the Kyuubi's chakra it is probable that he would have reached Harashima's level in his prime. His stamina is absurd, he would have still mastered sage mode and he has a genetic predisposition towards seals that made a nation feared. 

Sasuke would end up blind if he pushed his sharingan to its maximum potential. That being said it is possible that he would focus on non sharingan techniques which could in theory get him to the same level of effectiveness.


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## CyberianGinseng (Jun 21, 2013)

InB4 Kishi retcons the cause of Naruto's stupidity to be Kurama soaking up his spiritual energy to replenish his Yin chakra.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 21, 2013)

Radice said:


> Sandaime about Orochimaru:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


 Link removed orochimaru fears naruto potential... Kakashi said that Naruto can surpass  yondaime... Kurama said that Naruto has surpassed Minato and Kushina Link removed and its not all 





CyberianGinseng said:


> InB4 Kishi retcons the cause of Naruto's stupidity to be Kurama soaking up his spiritual energy to replenish his Yin chakra.


 maybe... naruto not stupid more


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## Six Paths Of Ace (Jun 21, 2013)

Naruto obviously his father is the fucking hokage!!! And his mum is the former Jinchuriki.


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## ShadowReaper (Jun 21, 2013)

Both of them have enormous potential, but in the end of the day Naruto will be on top.


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## PopoTime (Jun 21, 2013)

Radice said:


> Naruto's death in the valley of end = MS sasuke




Implying Sasuke would have any reason to leave Konoha.


Face it, Without the Kyuubi attack, Sasuke would have a MS at best, wheres Naruto would have so much more.








*Spoiler*: __ 



Also Minato > Itachi (jks jks)


----------



## Rokudaime Sennin (Jun 21, 2013)

If Naruto wasn't the Kurama Jinchuriki, his chakra levels probably could've been lower, but they wouldn't have been much lower - as the Uzumaki Clan are already renowned for having high vitality and powerful bodies in their own right, similar to those of the Senju, and Naruto is still one of the Uzumaki. On the flip side, though, his chakra control would've been a lot better, as the Kyuubi wouldn't be disturbing it or anything. As a result, he could've done a lot better at actually learning techniques, and passed earlier in the Ninja Academy too.

I'm pretty sure that Naruto could've still mastered Sennin Modo. If anything, his Sennin Modo would be even better than in the actual manga, as the Kyuubi wouldn't be there to prevent him from fusing with Fukasaku and Shima, and thus Naruto would be able to attain a permanent SM. Outside of KCM and BM, he'd arguably be even stronger than he is in the manga, at present. Things would be quite different for Sasuke, though, and I'm going to explain why. First of all, one must remember the nature of their different powers and bloodlines.

It has already been confirmed in the manga that Temporary SM Naruto = MS Sasuke. If Naruto wasn't the Kurama Jinchuriki, he'd have a permanent, long-lasting Sennin Modo. Sure, Naruto might need more time to master Sennin Modo (in the absence of Kurama), but in the end, he'd still be on top of Sasuke. If Sasuke hadn't taken Itachi's eyes, on the other hand, he'd have a regular Mangekyo Sharingan that would eventually lose its light and go blind. I guess you all know what that means for the legendary rivals in the end, don't you?

So, in the end, it would chalk down to Naruto still going strong and having access to a permanent SM, while his rival Sasuke is stuck with a regular MS that eventually loses its light and goes blind, effectively preventing Sasuke from being a shinobi any more - that is, until *or* unless he learns to *fight blind* or something, and I'm not sure if that's even possible for a Dojutsu user. At any rate, he would never be able to fight as well as he could when he still had his eyesight, and he'd still be inferior to Naruto in the end, _just like he is now._

So I'd say Sasuke would be the faster learner of the two, and for that reason, would succeed in the short run. However, Sasuke would end up going blind in the long run due to over-use of his powers, so he'd still lose in the long run, while Naruto is still going strong and ultimately ends up with an *even stronger SM* than the one he's currently using in the manga. So, in the end, I'd say Naruto was probably the one born with more potential. Being the son of a Kyuubi Jinchuriki and Uzumaki on one hand, and the legendary genius Minato on the other > being the son of some random Uchiha dude and dame. Even if you take away the Kyuubi from him, you can't take away Kurama's _influence on him through his mother._

Also, one can't forget the fact that part of the reason that Sasuke has grown 'so powerful', is apparently because he was given performance-enhancing drugs by Orochimaru during his training in Part II, which enabled him to train and become stronger in a shorter period of time than normal. Naruto, on the other hand, has never taken any drugs or anything. If this is all true, then it makes Sasuke look even worse in comparison to Naruto, both in the real manga and also in a scenario where neither would have access to their ultimate power-ups.

If you include EMS as a part of Sasuke's potential, then you'll have to include being the Kyuubi Jinchuriki as a part of Naruto's potential, too. If you include Rinnegan as a part of Sasuke's potential, you must include having the rest of the tailed beasts as a part of Naruto's potential, too. That is the nature of their power-ups in comparison to each other.


----------



## Nic (Jun 21, 2013)

ugh technically being a jinchuuriki is just as much a part of the uzumaki lineage than Uchihas actually attaining the EMS.  Both needing an outside factor not of their own to actually make it happen.


----------



## Louis-954 (Jun 21, 2013)

> Not to mention* Naruto is only 16 *so he can become a alot stronger while *Ms is sasuke's limit and his powers are only temporary*


1. So is Sasuke. Kakashi and Orochimaru are 30 and 54, respectively, and still improving their game. Sasuke is a greater genius than either of them, what makes you think he's going to cap out at a mere 16 years of age? He can only get stronger with experience and his thirst for power. Time is on his side.

2. No, the MS is temporary if used too much. EMS, however, is not.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 21, 2013)

Gunners said:


> Naruto, without the Kyuubi's chakra it is probable that he would have reached Harashima's level in his prime. His stamina is absurd, he would have still mastered sage mode and he has a genetic predisposition towards seals that made a nation feared.



Uchiha have a genetic disposition towards eyes that made a nation feared.



> Sasuke would end up blind if he pushed his sharingan to its maximum potential. That being said it is possible that he would focus on non sharingan techniques which could in theory get him to the same level of effectiveness.



EMS says hi.


----------



## Default (Jun 21, 2013)

Sasuke was born with more potential... because Itachi was his brother


----------



## Impact (Jun 21, 2013)

Sasuke of course


----------



## Miyoshi (Jun 21, 2013)

Naruto:
Uzumaki bloodline
Kyuubi - all bijuu mode forms, evil intent sensory, and bijuudama (Maybe Juubi jin)
hermit sage arts
perfect shadow clones
advanced variations of rasengan

(w/o Kyuubi incident)
Uzumaki bloodline - (better control of chakra earlier on)
Fuuinjutsu from parents
hermit sage arts
rasengan
______________________________________________________________________

Sasuke :
Uchiha bloodline Sharingan - up to EMS all up to stage 4 susano'o - enton (Maybe PS)
hebi arts (snake & hawk summoning)
advanced variations of chidori
katon variations

(w/o Uchiha massacre)
Uchiha bloodline - sharingan (Maybe up to MS)
chidori
Maybe hawk summoning
katon variations
maybe more genjutsu

Sasuke needed the Uchiha massacre more than Naruto needed the kyuubi attack, but both their misfortune became success. Oh and overall Naruto has greater potential either way you slice it.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 22, 2013)

Louis-954 said:


> 1. So is Sasuke. Kakashi and Orochimaru are 30 and 54, respectively, and still improving their game. Sasuke is a greater genius than either of them, what makes you think he's going to cap out at a mere 16 years of age? He can only get stronger with experience and his thirst for power. Time is on his side.


 genius  kakashi was jounin in 13 years... sasuke in 16 missing-nin... kakashi and orochimaru more smarter than sasuke


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## Rokudaime Sennin (Jun 22, 2013)

Krippy said:


> EMS says hi.



*BM* says hi.


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## BrandonnK (Jun 22, 2013)

They seem on equal grounds to me.

Naruto with NTCM, and Sasuke with MS.

Naruto with BM (Kurama summon), and Sasuke EMS (Susano).

But with who was born with more potential, I'd still say it's somewhat even since they both had to shoulder huge burdens, it just took Naruto longer to notice his potential.


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## ceralux (Jun 22, 2013)

Sasuke was born with more potential.

Sasuke has three nature affinitys.
Naruto has one.
Sasuke has two summons 
Naruto has one

Sage Mode has nothing to do with potential. Nothing but plot is stopping Sasuke from obtaining his own Sage Mode.. 

If Kurama wasn't in the equation (which he isn't because the OP asked who was born) I would pick to be Sasuke 10/10

I would have the sharigan
Multiple affinities 
Multiple summons 
I could learn Rasengan 
I could learn Sage Mode 

What does base naruto have? Nothing that Sasuke can't learn.


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## TheDestroyer (Jun 22, 2013)

EMS is an outside source like Kurama and we all know SM Naruto with Ma and Pa>MS Sasuke.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 22, 2013)

naruto has three types of chakra
not fact how current sasuke can summon hawk
and only plot stopping  from obtaining rinnegan



ceralux said:


> Sasuke was born with more potential.
> 
> Sasuke has three nature affinitys.
> Naruto has one.
> ...


----------



## Nuuskis (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm gonna have to say Sasuke. He has received his eyepowers thanks to him being an Uchiha. Although I'm not sure if his Eternal Mangekyo should be counted as they were Itachi's eyes. But I do give him credit for Mangekyo Sharingan and Kirin of course.

Naruto only got his powers because Minato sealed Kyuubi inside him. He is skilled with Kage Bunshin because he has the massive amount of Kyuubi's chakra circulating inside him. And for the same reason he could master Sage Mode as Fukasaku said that only those with massive amount of chakra can safely use Natural Chakra without being turned to a frog. And Kyuubi Chakra Mode should be obvious.

I DO give him credit for Rasen Shuriken, but he needed Sage Mode to throw it. But even then he managed to master Wind Element so fast because he has Kyuubi sealed inside him so he could use Kage Bunshins to train faster. So maybe it's still just 25% credit.

So yeah, Sasuke.


----------



## zuul (Jun 22, 2013)

Sasuke.

Without the Kyuubi chakra, Naruto would be shit.


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 22, 2013)

Sauron said:


> I'm gonna have to say Sasuke. He has received his eyepowers thanks to him being an Uchiha. Although I'm not sure if his Eternal Mangekyo should be counted as they were Itachi's eyes. But I do give him credit for Mangekyo Sharingan and Kirin of course.
> 
> Naruto only got his powers because Minato sealed Kyuubi inside him. He is skilled with Kage Bunshin because he has the massive amount of Kyuubi's chakra circulating inside him. And for the same reason he could master Sage Mode as Fukasaku said that only those with massive amount of chakra can safely use Natural Chakra without being turned to a frog. And Kyuubi Chakra Mode should be obvious.
> 
> ...


 wrong. naruto have big chakra pool even without kurama 





zuul said:


> Sasuke.
> 
> Without the Kyuubi chakra, Naruto would be shit.


 without itachi eyes sasuke blind shit


----------



## Nic (Jun 22, 2013)

zuul said:


> Sasuke.
> 
> Without the Kyuubi chakra, Naruto would be shit.



well considering his attainment of SM had nothing to do with the Kyuubi...


----------



## DaSheWan (Jun 22, 2013)

depends on the meaning of  potential here.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 22, 2013)

Nic said:


> well considering his attainment of SM had nothing to do with the Kyuubi...


 sasuke without cursed mark,steroids and EMS AND NARUTO WITHOUT KYUUBI


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## SageModeMan (Jun 22, 2013)

Born with the most potential. 

The expected within Konoha 16 years ago - 

Sasuke as an Uchiha with the expectation of the Sharingan kekai genkai would be expected to excel and be as good as his brother Itachi

A non-kyuubi Naruto would be expected to be exceptional with the Hokage as his father and having traits of the Uzumaki clan. 

Outward the bet on potential would originally have gone to Sasuke due to the bloodline trait.   Naruto would be seen as a close second.  

In the reality of the manga with Naruto having the Kyuubi the potential is far greater to exceed any blood line trait of the Uchiha.    

If Naruto inherits the longevity of the Uzumaki clan then his potential is there to become even more impressive.   Consider that a Naruto at the age of the 3rd Hokage would be as strong as a 30 year old with the experience of years of combat.

Sasuke found that on his own he wasn't strong enough compared to Naruto, that is one great reason he sought out Orochimaru.   What is interesting is that during the VATE battle he awakened the 3-tome Sharingan, and could have gone down a non-Orochimaru path under tutelage of  a Madara level Uchiha. 

Personally I see Naruto as having far more potential not only because of the Kyuubi, but because unlike Sasuke, he sees plainly the wrongs of the shinobi world and is willing to stand up against them no matter what.   Sasuke has always seemed to care little what is right or wrong, simply caring what makes him stronger and helps him reach his goals.   

Outside of the Narutoverse I think it would still remain the same, that Naruto has that extra something that makes him stand above all others when the chips are down and the situation is at the worst it can be.   Look across the storylines of manga and it is those who have that extra something that always gives them the greater potential for strength, knowledge, and change.


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## Bruce Wayne (Jun 22, 2013)

The potential of becoming a God vs. the potential of becoming blind.


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## Rios (Jun 22, 2013)

Naruto is all hard work, alright! No powerful heritage, no powerful beasts helping him, no nothing!



Bruce Wayne said:


> The potential of becoming a God vs. the potential of becoming blind.



thats not even his final form


----------



## WraithX959 (Jun 22, 2013)

Sadly the answer is Naruto. Hokage father, Sannin God-father, Uzumaki/Jinchuuriki mother, and a Bijuu.


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## Bruce Wayne (Jun 22, 2013)

Krippy said:


> why would I be mad? I already won



You have yet to explain what tops the potential of being a God.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 22, 2013)

And you have yet to explain what makes naruto a so called "god"


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## Bruce Wayne (Jun 22, 2013)

Krippy said:


> And you have yet to explain what makes naruto a so called "god"



Rikudou Sennin said so.  

Correction. It's what will make Naruto a God.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 22, 2013)

please... even juubi fears naruto


----------



## Scarlet Ammo (Jun 22, 2013)

Naruto is the child of prophecy. That's all he needs for having the most potential.


----------



## Addy (Jun 23, 2013)

sasuke.  talent vs hard work,  after all.......  relatively speaking,  that is


----------



## Hero of Shadows (Jun 23, 2013)

Rainbow Cake said:


> Naruto is the child of prophecy. That's all he needs for having the most potential.



Exactly Naruto was fated to be uber powerful from the start, but I don't know why Naruto fans are so hyped about that it makes Sasuke the underdog from the very start and turns Naruto into more of a Sue.


----------



## Nic (Jun 23, 2013)

actually the only time their trainings were directly compared, was the tree climbing having to do with chakra control, and naruto still ended up finishing just before sasuke despite having a much bigger hindrance with the kyuubi's chakra.   As far as hard work? what hard work?  Naruto learned rasengan in less than a week, learned SM in less than a week, became able to summon gamabunta in a day.  If Naruto had been a hard worker he woud have split himself into a thousand clones every day for the past six months learning new jutsu


----------



## Marsala (Jun 23, 2013)

Sasuke, clearly. Naruto needs the Kyuubi to match him. No, sage mode Naruto isn't a match for current Sasuke; if he was, then BM Naruto would be >>>>> Sasuke.


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## First Tsurugi (Jun 23, 2013)

Naruto wasn't technically born with the Kyuubi, so probably Sasuke.


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## Nic (Jun 23, 2013)

Marsala said:


> Sasuke, clearly. Naruto needs the Kyuubi to match him. No, sage mode Naruto isn't a match for current Sasuke; if he was, then BM Naruto would be >>>>> Sasuke.



except someone else eyes isn't a part of one's potential, and if that's the case then being a kyuubi jin is apart of an uzumaki's potential as well.


----------



## Rain (Jun 23, 2013)

Naruto is not the child of prophecy.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 23, 2013)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Rikudou Sennin said so.
> 
> Correction. It's what will make Naruto a God.





whatever you say...



Nic said:


> except someone else eyes isn't a part of one's potential, and if that's the case then being a kyuubi jin is apart of an uzumaki's potential as well.



Yes it is, it's not the fact that it's someone else's eyes, it the fact that taking your close relative's eyes cures your blindness and increases your power indefinitely. EMS is the pinnacle of an Uchiha's power, so it is part of their potential

Btw where was it stated that only an Uzumaki can be Kurama's Jin?


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Addy said:


> sasuke.  talent vs hard work,  after all.......  relatively speaking,  that is


 its lee,not naruto 





Marsala said:


> Sasuke, clearly. Naruto needs the Kyuubi to match him. No, sage mode Naruto isn't a match for current Sasuke; if he was, then BM Naruto would be >>>>> Sasuke.


 current sasuke without itachi eyes would be blind trash 





Rain said:


> Naruto is not the child of prophecy.


 this. toad sage sucks


----------



## Jeαnne (Jun 23, 2013)

for me its obviously Sasuke if we take away their bloodline and kyuubi stuff, Naruto is more of a power house and Sasuke is more about skill. You can take away everything, but not the skill.


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## princess of iwagakure (Jun 23, 2013)

This is a very good question since it is very hard to determine. 

Technically, Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi Chakra. But the same could be said for Sasuke and his EMS. 
I guess I would just have to compare Base Sasuke vs. Base Naruto. (I'm aware this is not the best way to answer the question but close enough).

I would say Sasuke takes the cake with his well-rounded abilities and his talent in genjutsu, which Naruto has no counter to(in base mode). 

(Seems like I made a mistake and voted for Naruto. Sorry)


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

princess of iwagakure said:


> This is a very good question since it is very hard to determine.
> 
> Technically, Naruto wasn't born with the Kyuubi Chakra. But the same could be said for Sasuke and his EMS.
> I guess I would just have to compare Base Sasuke vs. Base Naruto. (I'm aware this is not the best way to answer the question but close enough).
> ...


 technically sage mode belong to base naruto and naruto  can  ma and pa summon for  frog genjutsu... naruto and sasuke base equals 





Jeαnne said:


> for me its obviously Sasuke if we take away their bloodline and kyuubi stuff, Naruto is more of a power house and Sasuke is more about skill. You can take away everything, but not the skill.


 you not can compare naruto and sasuke skill... they are difference


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## Undead (Jun 23, 2013)

Naruto. The title of the series is his name.


----------



## k2nice (Jun 23, 2013)

Technically sasuke was born with the ability to unlock the sharingan and all its powers already in his DNA. Naruto wasn't born with anything of the matter.


----------



## Larcher (Jun 23, 2013)

Naruto he was destined to be the child of prophecy


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## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Lord Minato said:


> Naruto he was destined to be the child of prophecy


 Stupid reason


----------



## James Bond (Jun 23, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Just a reminder naruto was not born with the nine tails in his body nor does he have his fathers talent/genius


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

k2nice said:


> Technically sasuke was born with the ability to unlock the sharingan and all its powers already in his DNA. Naruto wasn't born with anything of the matter.


 naruto born with  big chakra pool for learn sage mode and kyuubi seal


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## Phemt (Jun 23, 2013)

Naruto and potential don't belong in the same sentence.

Kurama could have been given to anyone else, as the other 8 fodder Jinchuuriki out there can attest.

The only answer Naruto fans have is child of prophecy, a concept that Kishi blatantly pulled out of his ass.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Sutol said:


> Naruto and potential don't belong in the same sentence.
> 
> Kurama could have been given to anyone else, as the other 8 fodder Jinchuuriki out there can attest.


 all kurama jinchuuriki come from the Uzumaki clan


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 23, 2013)

Sutol said:


> Naruto and potential don't belong in the same sentence.
> 
> Kurama could have been given to anyone else, as the other 8 fodder Jinchuuriki out there can attest.
> 
> The only answer Naruto fans have is child of prophecy, a concept that Kishi blatantly pulled out of his ass.



I still give it to Naruto.  He's a late bloomer.

Naruto's potential is to become a perfect Jin and SM.  Not to mention his techniques that he's learned and has learned yet.

Sasuke's potential is to gain MS and compatible to gain EMS and CS2.  Also he has his own techniques.

The advantage is Naruto with his BM.

But if you put them in a normal up bringing I think Naruto is still greater.

Without Kurama killing his parents Naruto would likely learned his clan's seals and his father's techniques and likely SM from his god father.  Naruto while dense seems to catch on slow but to master fast.

Sasuke on the other hand without his clan dying may not have learned MS because it requires great loss at his own hands.  Oro wouldn't have been able to get to him with Itachi around, etc.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Raventhal said:


> I still give it to Naruto.  He's a late bloomer.
> 
> Naruto's potential is to become a perfect Jin and SM.  Not to mention his techniques that he's learned and has learned yet.
> 
> ...


 minato not have sage mode... and naruto not dense


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 23, 2013)

queen of waterfalls said:


> minato not have sage mode... and naruto not dense



God father which is not Minato.

Naruto is dense.  He's slow to understand.  It's just what he is.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 23, 2013)

Nic said:


> no you're taking someone elses power to increase your own.  That's not part of your potential and it's no different than using the power of another outside source in a bijuu.
> _previous page_
> and yes it's clearly implied here that their chakra is needed, hence why kushina was *Specifically* brought in to be the jin.



EMS power lies within his bloodline, it's not an outside power. Itachi is his brother, so combining his powers with Itachi's is something only an Uchiha can do so it is part of his potential.

The only thing that is debatable as being an outside power is Rinnegan, which needs senju cells to awaken. 

even outside of this, Sasuke is smarter, has more nature affinities, is much more well-rounded without the need for stat-boosters like SM, and is from a prestigious clan.


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 23, 2013)

Krippy said:


> EMS power lies within his bloodline, it's not an outside power. Itachi is his brother, so combining his powers with Itachi's is something only an Uchiha can do so it is part of his potential.
> 
> The only thing that is debatable as being an outside power is Rinnegan, which needs senju cells to awaken.
> 
> even outside of this, Sasuke is smarter, has more nature affinities, is much more well-rounded without the need for stat-boosters like SM, and is from a prestigious clan.



Then so is Naruto's ability to use BM and SM.   If the ability to use a gifted power is potential than Naruto's counts as well.  Especially since it's implied that these are bloodline abilities of the younger son.


----------



## Bruce Wayne (Jun 23, 2013)

Krippy said:


> EMS power lies within his bloodline, it's not an outside power. Itachi is his brother, so combining his powers with Itachi's is something only an Uchiha can do so it is part of his potential.
> 
> The only thing that is debatable as being an outside power is Rinnegan, which needs senju cells to awaken.
> 
> even outside of this, Sasuke is smarter, has more nature affinities, is much more well-rounded without the need for stat-boosters like SM, and is from a prestigious clan.



A clan that was wiped out by a 13 year old boy, who wasn't even at his peak, and lolobito.


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 23, 2013)

queen of waterfalls said:


> no. naruto understand bijuudama or chakra transfer tech easy



So what.  He's still dense.  Unless your gonna say sports players are geniuses because they understand the techniques of their sports.  Naruto is dense and it's been proven over and over.  I like Naruto but it's part of his character.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Raventhal said:


> So what.  He's still dense.  Unless your gonna say sports players are geniuses because they understand the techniques of their sports.  Naruto is dense and it's been proven over and over.  I like Naruto but it's part of his character.


  lol. where?... genius sasuke dont know about  sharingan genjutsu and abilities to control kurama before orochimaru  training... and naruto really change character like you or not


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Krippy said:


> EMS power l
> 
> 
> 
> even outside of this, Sasuke is smarter, has more nature affinities, is much more well-rounded without the need for stat-boosters like SM, and is from a prestigious clan.



sasuke not smarter than naruto
sasuke always need power boost


----------



## Radice (Jun 23, 2013)

OH God. Again.

Sasuke training with Orochimaru and Naruto with Jiraiya both Sannins

Naruto without Kyuubi
We saw the huge difference between Sasuke and Naruto after time skip.

Nardo only learned a New Rasengan.
Sasuke by other hand learned Chidori Variations, Genjutsus, Kenjutsu, New Katons and KIRIN..

Sasuke has more potential and is a lot of more intelligent than Naruto.


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Radice said:


> OH God. Again.
> 
> Sasuke training with Orochimaru and Naruto with Jiraiya both Sannins
> 
> ...


 sasuke not more smart than naruto... dont forget about that jutsu... naruto have more potetial than sasuke


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 23, 2013)

Radice said:


> OH God. Again.
> 
> Sasuke training with Orochimaru and Naruto with Jiraiya both Sannins
> 
> ...



No sasuke loses on both fronts.  SM > MS.  If you are talking total potential to use what's gifted than BM > EMS.  

Potential is the end game not the who journeys fastest.  Your logic is like my best friend had greater potential for logic because he was taller at age 16.  He was 6' at 13 while I was 5'3.  I'm 6'3 and he's 6'1.

Besides its implied that Naruto's lack of growth was the failure to harness Kurama which seems to be a big part of his training.


----------



## Radice (Jun 23, 2013)

SM>>>>>>>>>>>MS?


Naruto says NO


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Radice said:


> SM>>>>>>>>>>>MS?
> 
> 
> Naruto says NO


 naruto jokes


----------



## Radice (Jun 23, 2013)

MS Sasuke>>>>>>>>>>>>> Naruto ME

Naruto admits he need Kyuubi to fight  Sasuke

In The current nivel  Naruto has no chance against  FMS sasuke  without Kyuubi.



Naruto wasn't born with kyuubi.
Yes.  Sasuke has a lot more potential.


----------



## Impact (Jun 23, 2013)

Still sasuke


----------



## queen of waterfalls (Jun 23, 2013)

Radice said:


> MS Sasuke>>>>>>>>>>>>> Naruto ME
> 
> Naruto admits he need Kyuubi to fight  Sasuke
> 
> ...


 sasuke need itachi eyes for defeating naruto... naruto without kyuubi have more potential than sasuke... naruto without kyuubi have 
 infinity sage mode
summoning toads
shadow clones
sensor skill
rasengan
rasenshuriken
 sasuke without itachi eyes have
no enton
no genjutsu
chidori make damage for user without eyes
no amaterasu
no susanoo
no kirin
sasuke can summon anyway
and without eyes sasuke maybe use some weak katon jutsu and kenjutsu
 
 naruto have more potential without kyuubi than sasuke without itachi eyes 





♦Sir Crocodile♦ said:


> Still sasuke


 lol sasukefans


----------



## FoxxyKat (Jun 24, 2013)

I'll go w/ Naruto.


----------



## Shiny (Jun 24, 2013)

There's a reason we have a sharingan in the notices


----------



## Nic (Jun 24, 2013)

Krippy said:


> EMS power lies within his bloodline, it's not an outside power. Itachi is his brother, so combining his powers with Itachi's is something only an Uchiha can do so it is part of his potential.
> 
> The only thing that is debatable as being an outside power is Rinnegan, which needs senju cells to awaken.
> 
> even outside of this, Sasuke is smarter, has more nature affinities, is much more well-rounded without the need for stat-boosters like SM, and is from a prestigious clan.



that makes no sense.  by that token Naruto taking an uchiha's eyes is part of his potential to become a rikudou due to his ancestral bloodline.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 24, 2013)

Raventhal said:


> Then so is Naruto's ability to use BM and SM.   If the ability to use a gifted power is potential than Naruto's counts as well.  Especially since it's implied that these are bloodline abilities of the younger son.



Then it all depends on which power you feel is better, it's subjective from there. 



Nic said:


> that makes no sense.  by that token Naruto taking an uchiha's eyes is part of his potential to become a rikudou due to his ancestral bloodline.



an Uchiha's power is not an Uzumaki's, just like a senju's power is not an Uchiha's. Two uchiha combining their powers in a doujustu is the true power of their clan.

EMS is Sasuke's potential and BM is Naruto's.


----------



## Raventhal (Jun 24, 2013)

Krippy said:


> an Uchiha's power is not an Uzumaki's, just like a senju's power is not an Uchiha's. Two uchiha combining their powers in a doujustu is the true power of their clan.
> 
> EMS is Sasuke's potential and BM is Naruto's.



Actually, they're all related cousin bloodlines and from the same source so essentially Naruto stealing or gifted Sasuke's eyes to upgrade it to the Rinnegan is part of his RS bloodline.  Which is why including gifted items gets convoluted when talking about potential.


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