# The X-Men VS. Akatsuki!



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 9, 2006)

FAIL           !


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## Emery (Aug 9, 2006)

Wolverine can't be hurt and Jean Grey is an Omega Class mutant that kan kill all of them without thinking about it.  Iceman can freeze them all with no effort.  Etc etc.


There is no contest here.  XD


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 9, 2006)

True but when Jean is Phoenix she would attack anyone, Wolverine can still drown, and as for Ice Man, Itachi can just use Katon against him. I think it would be even for a while but the X-Men would win.  It would be an awsome fight to see.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 9, 2006)

Iceman alone can arguably take out the entire Akatsuki, if not a good number of them.

And what X-Men incarnation are we using?


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## NU-KazeKage (Aug 9, 2006)

akatsuki they wouldnt even have to use techniques just super speed behind and slit throat and sasori can take the wolverine seeing as i doubt he could figure out how to beat him  and since sasori has the third kazekage at his disposal he can just kill off wolverine because he controls metal


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 9, 2006)

_akatsuki they wouldnt even have to use techniques just super speed behind and slit throat and sasori can take the wolverine seeing as i doubt he could figure out how to beat him and since sasori has the third kazekage at his disposal he can just kill off wolverine because he controls metal_

Funny how you forget about telepathy.

In addition, Iceman can freeze the very blood in their brain, should he choose to.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 9, 2006)

If this is the original X-Men when they were all pwned by Banshee, before Phoenix and Ice-Man could properly use their powers then I think Akatsuki can win

If this is the full roster of X-Men then Akatsuki can go to the loser's bench


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 9, 2006)

X-men win easily


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## NU-KazeKage (Aug 9, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _akatsuki they wouldnt even have to use techniques just super speed behind and slit throat and sasori can take the wolverine seeing as i doubt he could figure out how to beat him and since sasori has the third kazekage at his disposal he can just kill off wolverine because he controls metal_
> 
> Funny how you forget about telepathy.
> 
> In addition, Iceman can freeze the very blood in their brain, should he choose to.


it dosnt matter if you know what someones going to do if you  cant keep up with it and besides we dont know what the AL can do and sharingan can fuck with your mind too and predict moves...and before i go to bed is this akatsuki before or after oro left..and im not sure if sasori has blood anywhere at all anymore so if the others (wich i doubt) get caught in that he wont be affected..after all most things that hurt humans dont affect sasori..hes kinda freaky lol


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 9, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _akatsuki they wouldnt even have to use techniques just super speed behind and slit throat and sasori can take the wolverine seeing as i doubt he could figure out how to beat him and since sasori has the third kazekage at his disposal he can just kill off wolverine because he controls metal_
> 
> Funny how you forget about telepathy.
> 
> In addition, Iceman can freeze the very blood in their brain, should he choose to.



Well I doubt he could freeze it easily, I mean he could but the victim would have to be held down, or uncontious.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 9, 2006)

_it dosnt matter if you know what someones going to do if you cant keep up with it_

Depends whether any Naruto ninja is literally faster than the speed of thought.

_sharingan can fuck with your mind too_

High-level telepathy >>>> Tsukiyomi.

_and predict moves...and before i go to bed is this akatsuki before or after oro left..and im not sure if sasori has blood anywhere at all anymore so if the others (wich i doubt) get caught in that he wont be affected..after all most things that hurt humans dont affect sasori..hes kinda freaky lol_

Iceman freezes the blood in their brains.

Or Jean attacks them telepathic-wise.

Or Xavier does his infamous mind-wipe.

_Well I doubt he could freeze it easily, I mean he could but the victim would have to be held down, or uncontious._

Not really.


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## EvilMoogle (Aug 9, 2006)

If we're talking all X-Men ever, it's a crushing landslide.

For reference here are the current teams:

Team "Astonishing"
Cyclops
Emma Frost
Beast
Shadowcat
Colossus
Wolverine

Team "Uncanny"
Professor X (Unpowered)
Nightcrawler
Marvel Girl
Havok
Polaris
Warpath
Darwin

Team "Adjectiveless"
Rogue
Iceman
Cannonball
Cable (Techno-powered)
Mystique
Sabretooth

In "Astonishing" Emma probably kills them all before anyone knows what's going on.  Everyone but Beast would be able to cause signifigant problems at least.  If Akatsuki can speed-blitz faster than Emma can TP they win against this team.

In "Uncanny" Marvel Girl does the same as Emma, only better.  There's a good chance that Darwin can't be killed, so that has to count for something.  Havok and Polaris can do rather large amounts of damage so it's tough to take them down.  Powerless Professor X, Warpath, and Nightcrawler are rather weak in this fight though.

In "Adjectiveless" a bloodlusted Iceman kills them all without a doubt.  Rogue and Cannonball could mount a decent offense but would fall to numbers.  I'm not sure they can "kill" Sabretooth exactly, but they could KO him.  If Iceman isn't bloodlusted the Atatsuki wins if they find a way to take out Iceman before he gets serious.


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## CrazyMoronX (Aug 9, 2006)

Depends on which levels of the mutants we use, who we use, and when we use them.

Like CBG and EM said, it can be an easy win, or crushing defeat. It's all in the details.


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## Seany (Aug 9, 2006)

X-men win this.


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## Gambitz (Aug 9, 2006)

i dont think the X - Men will be that much of a threat for the Akatsuki......


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## G. Hawke (Aug 9, 2006)

For me it is simple really.

Akatsuki is suppose to the be a gathering of the best missing-nins in the Narutoverse correct?
So just pit them againts the 9 greatest X-men ever.
Personally Ice Man would just decimate them.
The Phoneix would just be over kill.


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## Squall501 (Aug 9, 2006)

Xmen of course....

Tell how in da world will Akatsuki deal with Nate grey or even Professor X

If Apocalypse was a good guy we wouldnt need the X-men......lol


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## Zack_Strife (Aug 9, 2006)

This is a ridiculous concept. We haven't even seen all of Akatsuki so far and of those we have seen only two, Sasori and Deidara have shown anything like their full potential.


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## little nin (Aug 9, 2006)

akatsuki own them digustingly there is no competition, itachi takes out cyclops just for the fun of killing the poof


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 9, 2006)

_akatsuki own them digustingly there is no competition, itachi takes out cyclops just for the fun of killing the poof _

Telepathy, anyone?

Cryokinesis, anyone?


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## superbatman86 (Aug 9, 2006)

Seeing as a lot of X-men could single handidly take out the entirety of the Narutoverse my vote goes to the X-men.


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## Geese (Aug 9, 2006)

Extremely easy win for the X-Men.


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## Scared Link (Aug 9, 2006)

Pshh!

Nail Polish > Jooh!


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## The Wanderer (Aug 10, 2006)

The X-Men wins this. There is nothing Akatsuki can do against monsters like Marvel Girl or Iceman, as Comic Book Guy said. And I don't see them landing a hit against Kitty Pryde, a force to be reckoned with in mano-a-mano duels, if you catch my drift; she has the potential to OHK any Akatsuki member if she's serious enough (Unless I'm forgetting something)

And no, I don't think that the two remaining members have what it takes to hold their ground against Rachel or Bobby. The power gap between the Narutoverse ad the Marvelverse can be too much in some instances.


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## Kisame. (Aug 10, 2006)

> In "Astonishing" Emma probably kills them all before anyone knows what's going on. Everyone but Beast would be able to cause signifigant problems at least. If Akatsuki can speed-blitz faster than Emma can TP they win against this team.


 

And what can they do against shadowcat?


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

X2q said:
			
		

> And what can they do against shadowcat?



Well Shadow Cat (Shadow Cat is the one who can walk through walls right?) can't hit someone when she is in the "Transparent" mode, so she can basically only hide from Akatsuki.


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## Arroniro Arleri (Aug 10, 2006)

The Akatsuki are seriously outnumbered here. 

Not that it would matter with the likes of  Iceman, Magneto, Cable, and Scarlet Witch.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Ok guys, when I said X-Men I meant the good ones; not Magneto, SaberTooth, Toad, etc.


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## Arroniro Arleri (Aug 10, 2006)

Well, Professor X  could still own Akatsuki.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

True, but I think that Itachi's 1000 Years of Pain could take care of him.


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## escamoh (Aug 10, 2006)

X-men wins this......you'd have to be a hardcore narutard to think an omega-level mutant can't defeat Akatsuki.


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## Aruarian (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> True, but I think that Itachi's 1000 Years of Pain could take care of him.


If it were not for the fact that X can attack the Akatsuki over long-distances.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

esca: True but I just like to argue about this.  

Minami: Well Akatsuki could take some of the X Men out with their Kunais (Kunai is the right word, right?) Sasori could use his puppets to go attack them, and that dude with the explosives could...uhh...throw them.


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## escamoh (Aug 10, 2006)

Which X-men would die from a kunai??


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## Aruarian (Aug 10, 2006)

Well, Jean Grey could just easily stop the Kunai with telekinesis, and Prof X. could kill them all with a single thought.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Well all you need is a water jutsu that can flood 10+ feet in that air and the X-Men are instantly at a disadvantage, because ninja can walk on water and X-Men can, well Jean can float everyone up but that will take up too much consintration so she will be open to attacks. Also, Prof X probably can't swim too well with no leg.


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## Aruarian (Aug 10, 2006)

And Iceman can't do _anything_ about some ten feet of water, right?


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## escamoh (Aug 10, 2006)

This guy is starting to irritate me.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Oh yeah,  forgot about him...

Hey, hey, hey, esca, I started this I am just doing this for argument's sake. The whole thing about Who VS. Who would be boring if there weren't arguments.


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## escamoh (Aug 10, 2006)

There's really no point in an argument. Iceman alone could take out Akatsuki.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

I guess he could, but Itachi using Katon would be a bitch for Ice Man, and Itachi could just use 1000 Years of Pain on him, well any of the Akatsuki members could use a mind trick on him.


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## escamoh (Aug 10, 2006)

Iceman would freeze Akatsuki's brains like CBG said.

And we've never even seen Itachi use a katon jutsu so we know he's not gonnna suddenly start using it at the the beggining of the fight.


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## Aruarian (Aug 10, 2006)

Iceman can create more ice than what Itachi can melt. Sasuke couldn't melt Haku's Ice Mirrors, and there have been no indication of Katon jutsu increasing in strength as the user does.


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## ZergKage (Aug 10, 2006)

Meh, the x-men win but people need to stop acting like the x-men go into every fight bloodlusted mindwiping and brain freezing everything they come across....its silly


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## EvilMoogle (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Well Shadow Cat (Shadow Cat is the one who can walk through walls right?) can't hit someone when she is in the "Transparent" mode, so she can basically only hide from Akatsuki.


Plus she does have some vunerablities while she's phased (magic and psionic attacks have caused her problems in the past).

She'd be a pain in the ass for them, but I can't help but think that at least one of the Akatsuki would have a jutsu that could take her out.


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## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 10, 2006)

Over what range does Iceman's ability to freeze blood work? Because if Itachi can use genjutsu on him before he can react, it's over. Same goes for any other mutant. I'm not sure, but I think telepathy may be thrown out by kage bunshin, or even better, the AL's ability to embue other people with Akatsuki member abilities. Deidara's ability with misdirection and atonomous explosives, makes him a problem for psychics. Kisame would probably only be handy for creating clones to throw off psychic attacks. Oro's edo tensei may be useful to.


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## Mat?icha (Aug 10, 2006)

X-men i say


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## Kisame. (Aug 10, 2006)

> Over what range does Iceman's ability to freeze blood work?


 
ice man could freeze the whole planet with his powers. OMEGA BABY


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## The Wanderer (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Well Shadow Cat (Shadow Cat is the one who can walk through walls right?) can't hit someone when she is in the "Transparent" mode, so she can basically only hide from Akatsuki.


Hmmm . . . no. First of all, when Kitty goes intangible through an object with an electrical system, she disrupts the system's workings, thus being the nightmare of all robots, cyborgs, etc (And surprisingly, this includes the electrical impulses found in the human brain, or at least, so they say the guys at Marvel). And not only that, she can phase part or all of her body through another living being without harm to herself, though her "companion" can be KO'ed as a result. And then there is the potential to kill by phasing her enemies into a solid object and then releasing them, causing them to solidify whilst still within the object. And besides, she can revert back to normal, smack you and go intangible again in a blink of an eye. She can use her powers by reflex if she wants.

So you see, there's quite a lot of things that Kitty can do in this battle.

And that's what you get for judging one character without knowing him/her well enough. No offense, but the ninjas are screwed this time; besides, against destroyers like Iceman, they're doomed anyway


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## Solar old (Aug 10, 2006)

Is this fight even valid when there are 5 Akatsuki members whose abilities we have no clue about? Sheesh, sometimes OB can be a real pain for rationalists like myself.

Seriously, what grounds does anyone have to make a sound, logical conclusion about X-Men vs Akatsuki? Seems any argument would be pretty weak to me, simply by the fact I pointed out above...


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## EvilMoogle (Aug 10, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> I'm not sure, but I think telepathy may be thrown out by kage bunshin.



Well, given what we've seen we know that Kage Bunshin have the same organs as normal people (Naruto vs. Neji fight).  We also know that Kage Bunshin can learn (Naruto/Kakashi).  We've also seen Kage Bunshin fight on more than one occasion.

So I would assume each clone could be telepathically controlled seperatly.  Increases the numbers but the high level telepaths can menetally control crowds of people (Jean, Rachel, Professor X, empowered Cable).

As long as there are power-house telepaths around, I don't see any chance for the ninja to win (unless you want to argue a speed-blitz).


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## Aruarian (Aug 10, 2006)

Cyclops can just sweep the area.


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## The Wanderer (Aug 10, 2006)

SOLARLORD said:
			
		

> Is this fight even valid when there are 5 Akatsuki members whose abilities we have no clue about? Sheesh, sometimes OB can be a real pain for rationalists like myself.
> 
> Seriously, what grounds does anyone have to make a sound, logical conclusion about X-Men vs Akatsuki? Seems any argument would be pretty weak to me, simply by the fact I pointed out above...


Yet you voted for Akatsuki. If we play by your rules, we can't say that the remaining members won't have what it takes to defeat the X-men, but you can say that the remaining Akatsuki members will have powers that will put the X-Men out of comission, despite you not having any evidence to back that up ? Sorry, but hmm . . . no 

If you think about it, the gap between the ninjas and the mutants is too much. And almost probably, AL and the other guys won't change that. Unless they have the potential to destroy the solar system or have unlimited psionic powers or are seen as threats by extraterrestral entities, not by ninja villagers (And they won't), it's safe to assume that Akatsuki won't stand a chance against the X-Men


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

I voted for X-Men but I like to agrue so I keep revealing ways Akatsuki could slow down the X-Men, and you guys are talking like Ice Man could freeze someone in .5 seconds. I mean he could freeze the would but it would take years, and to keep it all froozen, he would die from exhaustion. Anyways, back on subject, to freeze a person it would take time, I mean he would put a thin layer of frost on them instantly, but to freeze them so much to make them immobal, it would take a few minutes, but to freeze them to death, that would take 5 minutes maybe.


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## The Wanderer (Aug 10, 2006)

There is a scan somewhere in the OB, it shows Iceman freezing Emma Frost, in the next panel, she was on her knees, incapacitated, and to top it off, he looked like he wasn't even trying. 

He's that good with his powers you know


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2006)

From page 1.

Freezing the flow of blood to your brain.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Just because you don't look like you are trying doesn't mean it isn't hard.  It's like playing a video game (That is hard) not like you are going to be groaning and have a mad expression on your face.

Yeah that comic just shows her on her hands and knees, that doesn't mean he can freeze blood instantly.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2006)

Regardless, I don't think the Akatsuki can withstand that kind of offense.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Yeah, I know but I am saying that Ice Man isn't all that cracked up you think he is. Even for him freezing a human would be hard, it's not a instant prosses.


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## superbatman86 (Aug 10, 2006)

No effort.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

He frooze a tongue, you can lick a froozen poll and your tongue would freeze to it, not to mention the tongue is always wet, unless you stick it out of your mouth for too long.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2006)

X-Men Forever #6.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> X-Men Forever #6.


Pardon?


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2006)

That's where the scan came from. X-Men Foreer #6.


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## The Wanderer (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Just because you don't look like you are trying doesn't mean it isn't hard.  It's like playing a video game (That is hard) not like you are going to be groaning and have a mad expression on your face.



Then you didn't read the "What was your most pathetic death" threads in the RE boards in GameFAQS  

Now, you were saying ?

Now back on topic. What about the teamwork factor ? This element enough should be more than enough to determine the outcome on its own.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Well I don't know about you guys but I don't think most X-Men can withstand that explosive dude's bombs.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 10, 2006)

_Well I don't know about you guys but I don't think most X-Men can withstand that explosive dude's bombs._

Depends on what incarnation of the X-Men we're using.

Shadowcat is unharmed.

Colossus is debatable, but he's organic steel, last I read.

Nightcrawler teleports.

Darwin survives; it's his gimmick.

Iceman reforms.

I don't think it'll even come to that.


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## superbatman86 (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> He frooze a tongue, you can lick a froozen poll and your tongue would freeze to it, not to mention the tongue is always wet, unless you stick it out of your mouth for too long.


The fact that he could do that without effort is the point and since the human body is more than 70% water he could've done it to his entire body.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

Yeah but the other 30% is flesh, organs, etc, and they are all around 98.6 degrees which would have been much, much harder to freeze. The point is that you can just get a frozen poll and freeze a tongue, but if you get a frozen poll and put it to your arm, you will just get "Goose Bumps". See my point? Freezing a tongue is no great feat.


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## Galt (Aug 10, 2006)

To be honest, freezing the outer portion of a human body isn't too great a feat either.  Dry ice can easily freeze off the outer layers of skin, and dry ice is a far cry from what Iceman can achieve.  And it's not simply the other 30% of the human body that is not water that is 98.6 degrees.  The average temp is 98.6 degrees, and chances are that water has a much higher specific heat than the various proteins and fats that make up the rest of your body, so it's not like they are any more difficult to freeze.  Plus, who cares about the other 30% of you?  If all the water in your body is frozen, you are dead.  No ifs ands or buts about it.  

Another thing.  Your tongue is not frozen when you touch it to a freezing metal pole.  The outer layers of skin on it may adhere to the pole, but certainly the entirety of the thing is still relatively normal in temperature.  Freezing a tongue completely to the point that it is totally incapable of motion is a much bigger deal than "oh god it's going to hurt if I pull it off."


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## superbatman86 (Aug 10, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Yeah but the other 30% is flesh, organs, etc, and they are all around 98.6 degrees which would have been much, much harder to freeze. The point is that you can just get a frozen poll and freeze a tongue, but if you get a frozen poll and put it to your arm, you will just get "Goose Bumps". See my point? Freezing a tongue is no great feat.


Except you have no Idea what your talking about.That 70% that's water includes all your cells and if 20% of your cells die you die.And freezing cells kills them so flash freezing =instant kill.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 10, 2006)

I never said that if the 70% of you freezes then you won't die so don't go making accusations, I was only saying that Flesh, Muscles, Organs, etc are harder to freeze than water. Oh, and about the Flash Freeze thing, Ice Man can't Flash Freeze someone, or else all X-Men battles would be boring, there wouldn't even be a point in the comic because then Ice Man could just walk in a freeze them and walk out, makes for bad entertainment. Just because the logic proves that he could if he spent years practicing doesn't mean he can, and freezing things takes energy from him, so if he even were able to do that he would either die from exhaustion or just pass out for a long time, so it would be a sucide move, to say.

P.S. Doesn't he need moisture in the air to freeze things?


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## Darklyre (Aug 11, 2006)

He can flash freeze them, alright. He's frozen entire parts of New York before, easily. He could easily turn someone into an instant popsicle.

Plus, where are you gonna find a place with absolutely no water vapor in the air besides maybe the middle of a giant desert? (And that's not counting a possible oasis or underground springs, too)


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

I was just asking about the water in the air thing...He probably only froze the outside of the buildings and if he did freeze all the way through the walls and into the buildings post a link. If he could Flash Freeze a person then why doesn't he do that in all fights? Hmm? He can only freeze the water around them, he can't freeze a full grown human instantly from the outside in. I don't think we have gotten something to a temperature so low that it can freeze a full grown human instantly.


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## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> I never said that if the 70% of you freezes then you won't die so don't go making accusations, I was only saying that Flesh, Muscles, Organs, etc are harder to freeze than water. Oh, and about the Flash Freeze thing, Ice Man can't Flash Freeze someone, or else all X-Men battles would be boring, there wouldn't even be a point in the comic because then Ice Man could just walk in a freeze them and walk out, makes for bad entertainment. Just because the logic proves that he could if he spent years practicing doesn't mean he can, and freezing things takes energy from him, so if he even were able to do that he would either die from exhaustion or just pass out for a long time, so it would be a sucide move, to say.
> 
> P.S. Doesn't he need moisture in the air to freeze things?


Organs and muscles are almost 100% water and since the toungue is a muscle the rest freeze just as easyily.He doesn't need years he can do it now.And he doesn't get tired.The reason he doesn't go around flash freezing people is the same reason most Flash and Superman stories aren't a panel long.Plot.And no he doesn't need moisture actually he can create it as seen when he fought the gogatha in space.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> Organs and muscles are almost 100% water and since the toungue is a muscle the rest freeze just as easyily.He doesn't need years he can do it now.And he doesn't get tired.The reason he doesn't go around flash freezing people is the same reason most Flash and Superman stories aren't a panel long.Plot.And no he doesn't need moisture actually he can create it as seen when he fought the gogatha in space.



Are you high? 100% water? Organs and muscles are mostly flesh in layers. If Organs and Muscles were almost 100% water then the body would be like 90% water not 70% Oh, and, he does get tired when he uses his powers. He can't flash freeze someone now, read in my other post why.


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## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Are you high? 100% water? Organs and muscles are mostly flesh in layers. If Organs and Muscles were almost 100% water then the body would be like 90% water not 70% Oh, and, he does get tired when he uses his powers. He can't flash freeze someone now, read in my other post why.


You do know that flesh is mostly water right?The majority of the non water part of are bodies are our skeletons.Take that away there's trace amount of many minerals but the body is almost entireyl water.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_And he doesn't get tired.The reason he doesn't go around flash freezing people is the same reason most Flash and Superman stories aren't a panel long.Plot._

That, and Robert is only content with the simplest manifestation of his powers -- the creation of ice -- and rarely permitted himself to explore and apply the full manifestation of his abilities.

_Oh, and, he does get tired when he uses his powers. _

That'd be when?


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> You do know that flesh is mostly water right?The majority of the non water part of are bodies are our skeletons.Take that away there's trace amount of many minerals but the body is almost entireyl water.



Ok, off the topic about the 70% water thing. Organs, bones, and muscles are a lot more dense then water. If you put a slab of muscle, a bone, a liver, and a cup of water in the freezer, what will freeze first? Correct, the water. One problem with the 70% Water in our bodies thing, it is mixed with flesh and other... stuff, so that water wont freeze as easily as plain water would. Think about cake batter, it like what 50% water right? But it's not like the coldness is going to search out water and freeze it first and then freeze the other stuff, no it is going to freeze the top layers first and make it's way to the core. I mean water sure as hell with quicken the prosses of freezing but not enough to be able to flash freeze a human.


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## Galt (Aug 11, 2006)

The non-water portion of the organs have the distinct advantage of not freezing because they're NOT LIQUID.  The water will freeze as it normally does, around the whole thing.  The non water portion of cake batter serves to up the specific heat of the entire mixture, meaning it just takes a little longer to do the whole thing.  The cold does not "search out the water," for all intents and purposes the heat is drained out of the entire emulsion equally, it just takes a heck of alot longer since there are solids there already.  *YOU LACK SCIENCE*.


That said, it's not that big a deal for Bobby to kill a guy.  Let's assume he can't flash freeze a whole human.  Flash freezing the brain is good as dead as far as a human being is concerned.  Or the lungs.  Or the heart.  Or pretty much most major organs.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

No, Bobby can't just target a certain organ, I mean he can freeze in that general area but he can't only freeze the human heart, he has to freeze through the flesh and bones to get to it. Which I said earlier, it will take too long to freeze the whole head of a human, if he started that doesn't change the fact that the person could just run.

Just because Muscles and Organs are mostly water doesn't change the fact that the flesh slows the freezing process significantly.


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## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> No, Bobby can't just target a certain organ, I mean he can freeze in that general area but he can't only freeze the human heart, he has to freeze through the flesh and bones to get to it. Which I said earlier, it will take too long to freeze the whole head of a human, if he started that doesn't change the fact that the person could just run.
> 
> Just because Muscles and Organs are mostly water doesn't change the fact that the flesh slows the freezing process significantly.



Actually he doesn't have to go through the flesh and bone.  Here he freezes Emma Frosts flow of blood to her brain, do you see any of her flesh frozen?


----------



## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> No, Bobby can't just target a certain organ, I mean he can freeze in that general area but he can't only freeze the human heart, he has to freeze through the flesh and bones to get to it. Which I said earlier, it will take too long to freeze the whole head of a human, if he started that doesn't change the fact that the person could just run.
> 
> Just because Muscles and Organs are mostly water doesn't change the fact that the flesh slows the freezing process significantly.


Know what your talking about when your arguing a point.Bobby can freeze every molecule in anyone's body regardless if it's water or not when ever he wants.He doesn't get tired and hasn't for a long time now because in ice form he's no longer human so he doesn't need air,sleep,or food.Hell he doesn't even need water to make Ice anymore he can just make it.Fine he doesn't freeze Gaara he just rips all the water out of him,puts an ice spike through his head,beats him to death incases him in ice suffocating him,turns him to ice and leaves him that way,steal all energy from him so Gaara's molecules dissolve since they no longer have the energy to hold themselves together.Pick one and shut up.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

No, but there are veins about a sixth of an inch under the skin so he could have just entered threw the temple and he wouldn't need to freeze her whole head.


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> No, but there are veins about a sixth of an inch under the skin so he could have just entered threw the temple and he wouldn't need to freeze her whole head.




Then what you said was still wrong.  He still didn't need to freeze any of her flesh to do this.  Maybe you should do some more research about Iceman.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> Know what your talking about when your arguing a point.Bobby can freeze every molecule in anyone's body regardless if it's water or not when ever he wants.He doesn't get tired and hasn't for a long time now because in ice form he's no longer human so he doesn't need air,sleep,or food.Hell he doesn't even need water to make Ice anymore he can just make it.Fine he doesn't freeze Gaara he just rips all the water out of him,puts an ice spike through his head,beats him to death incases him in ice suffocating him,turns him to ice and leaves him that way,steal all energy from him so Gaara's molecules dissolve since they no longer have the energy to hold themselves together.Pick one and shut up.



Holy...shit...what the hell are you talking about?  Anyways, lets start a new thread in Meta-Battledome where we can get new oppinions, because this is going nowhere.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Then what you said was still wrong.  He still didn't need to freeze any of her flesh to do this.  Maybe you should do some more research about Iceman.



What? No, veins and organs are whole different things, maybe you can do some reseach on the human body.

How do you know he didn't need to freeze any flesh? Listen, he can't go inside of someone and freeze specific things, end of discussion, post this topic in the Meta Battledome if you want to keep arguing.

Oh, and, he can manipulate temperatures, not Ice, he freezes the water in the air. Want proof? Here is a quote from Wikipedia.com "Ice-Man was both blessed and cursed with the ability to manipulate TEMPERATURES to sub-zero degrees. With this, he can project intense blasts of cold, freezing the moisture in the air to encase objects in ice, drop the internal temperature of a target so that it will freeze, or create objects from ice such as ice slides used for transportation or ice shields for defense. Due to the evil machinations of Loki, he was unable to have contact with any organic item for fear of freezing it instantaneously, however this was fixed at the end of the series."


----------



## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

flash freeze


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> No, Bobby can't just target a certain organ, I mean he can freeze in that general area but he can't only freeze the human heart, he has to freeze through the flesh and bones to get to it. Which I said earlier, it will take too long to freeze the whole head of a human, if he started that doesn't change the fact that the person could just run.
> 
> Just because Muscles and Organs are mostly water doesn't change the fact that the flesh slows the freezing process significantly.



Hmm it would take long to freeze a whole head, but he can freeze every molecule of water in someones body in a couple seconds yea that makes sense.



Edit:  Manipulating temperatures and manipulating ice are pretty much the same thing.  Give me an example of how they differ.  I guess I don't understand the significance.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

And Legion's a psionic powerhouse. . . too bad we'll never get an accurate gauge on his abilities though. . .


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

_Edit: Manipulating temperatures and manipulating ice are pretty much the same thing. Give me an example of how they differ. I guess I don't understand the significance._

Oh, well about that I was just stating that he doesn't, like shoot ice he shoots cold which freezes the water in the air, there really is no difference. I was just pointing something out.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 11, 2006)

How is Iceman's power acitvated? We know that Ninja's control chakra flow in and around their bodies. What about Iceman? If he wanted to freeze someone, does he have to be able to see them? Must he be aware of them? If the answer to the last 2 questions is yes, then his victory isn't so clear cut.


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> How is Iceman's power acitvated? We know that Ninja's control chakra flow in and around their bodies. What about Iceman? If he wanted to freeze someone, does he have to be able to see them? Must he be aware of them? If the answer to the last 2 questions is yes, then his victory isn't so clear cut.




Well if they're attacking him I'm assuming he would be able to see them.  And by attacking I don't mean throwing kunais.


----------



## Tsumi (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd say X-men I mean just look at the quantity difference if you're basing this off every official x-men member vs the 9 members of akatsuki...

akatsuki has a variety of different skill base attacks are a definitely more wide spread with each persons individual attack but they do not fuction as a team...they function in pairs only....

also having mental powers like jean greys, xaviers and psylocks are all abilities that are impossible to defend against unless you have the same basic mutation....whats the point of having someone like nightcrawler poof everywhere when you can easily use the speed that each akatsuki member has to appear near kurt?

also one question with rogues ability to absorb the energy of a person, she would obviously absorb chakra (a ninja technique some can already execute) but with someone like itachi who has a bloodlimit would she aquire that extra skill and knowledge of how to use it?


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 11, 2006)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Well if they're attacking him I'm assuming he would be able to see them. And by attacking I don't mean throwing kunais.


See that's my point. From the various shinobi we've seen so far, many of them don't attack linearly. With the multitude of techniques that allow for misdirection, the chances of Iceman actually  attacking them directly is reduced.

Out of interest, how is Iceman vulnerable? Can he be injured? It seems he is alot like Aokiji.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> Oh, and about the Flash Freeze thing, Ice Man can't Flash Freeze someone, or else all X-Men battles would be boring, there wouldn't even be a point in the comic because then Ice Man could just walk in a freeze them and walk out, makes for bad entertainment.



It's because freezing someone in that way would kill them (or at least cause major major damage to whatever is being frozen).  And Bobby's a nice guy that doesn't want to kill people.

Hence bloodlusted Iceman is nearly unstoppable, while normal Iceman you have some time against before he goes all out.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> See that's my point. From the various shinobi we've seen so far, many of them don't attack linearly. With the multitude of techniques that allow for misdirection, the chances of Iceman actually  attacking them directly is reduced.
> 
> Out of interest, how is Iceman vulnerable? Can he be injured? It seems he is alot like Aokiji.



He can be injured, if you punch him it will just alittle but barely any. Like if you sliced him in half he would hurt.


----------



## Galt (Aug 11, 2006)

Not if he's in ice form.  At that point, as I've stated, he's nothing more than a free-floating consciousness that manipulates water molecules and their temperatures.  He's almost exactly like Aokiji.  All the damange you do to him while he's organic ice is completely useless.  But don't get that confused with when he does get hurt in earlier comics because he just uses a thin layer of ice over his body.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Not if he's in ice form.  At that point, as I've stated, he's nothing more than a free-floating consciousness that manipulates water molecules and their temperatures.  He's almost exactly like Aokiji.  All the damange you do to him while he's organic ice is completely useless.  But don't get that confused with when he does get hurt in earlier comics because he just uses a thin layer of ice over his body.



Oh, well when I think of Ice Man I think of Bobby with a thin layer of ice over him. 

P.S. Is there a way to kill him?


----------



## |eMoCandY| (Aug 11, 2006)

itachi uses his mangekyu sharigan and then poof*! every X MEN is KO....

*WARNING SPOILER!*


----------



## CouchDemon (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh yeah I forgot about that, but can he open up the portals to the other dimension, or can Kakashi only?


----------



## Shikamaru 20 (Aug 11, 2006)

The X-men, there just too powerfull.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Shukaku_Gaara said:
			
		

> itachi uses his mangekyu sharigan and then poof*! every X MEN is KO....
> 
> *WARNING SPOILER!*


There is such a thing as a spoiler tag, you tard. And that 'WARNING SPOILER!' is fucking useless AFTER the spoiler.


----------



## CouchDemon (Aug 11, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> There is such a thing as a spoiler tag, you tard. And that 'WARNING SPOILER!' is fucking useless AFTER the spoiler.



Haha, that made me laugh some.


----------



## Goodfellow (Aug 11, 2006)

Jean/Phoenix isn't soo bad. One tsukiymo and she's out o.O
And what goes for Wolverine, well, he can drown^^

Also, Deidara has that special "edge" when it comes to long distance anhiliation. bet no one would expect a special 16 made up a s a claybird in doc Xaviers appartment^^


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

And how, pre-tell, would Deidara know where Xavier lives? If this was a true battle with both sides blood-lusted, Akatsuki would not stand a chance.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Aug 11, 2006)

The_Teacher said:
			
		

> Jean/Phoenix isn't soo bad. One tsukiymo and she's out o.O


Actually, the way it works is quite like how the Astreal plane works in Marvel.  I wouldn't think it's unreasonable to say that the psychics might have some control of their own inside the other world.

In which case it Itachi is in a world of hurt.

Of course, Itachi has to think in order to activate his MS, so chances are he's already lost at that point if Jean's around.


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

What Planet have I been on that I haven't noticed this thread? 

Anyway....

Emma Frost (it'd be overkill with Phoenix or Professor X) mind-rapes everyone.

End.

Unless....

Akatsuki Chick = Psylocke

Proof: 




Nawh....Akatsuki still would lose.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_Oh, well when I think of Ice Man I think of Bobby with a thin layer of ice over him. _

Jeez. . . that was a few decades ago. . .

_P.S. Is there a way to kill him?_

Completely obliterate his ice form down to the very last atom in a place where there's absolutely NO water vapor down to the last molecule. Then, you have a good chance.

If he's human, he's susceptible to normal deaths that a human should die from.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 11, 2006)

Evil Moogle said:
			
		

> Actually, the way it works is quite like how the Astreal plane works in Marvel. I wouldn't think it's unreasonable to say that the psychics might have some control of their own inside the other world.
> 
> In which case it Itachi is in a world of hurt.
> 
> ...


Tsukiyomi probably doesn't work on psychics, but not because of the above reason. Genjutsu works by altering sensor input to fool the brain. Telepaths can inherently sense the world without their 5 senses. Like I mentioned before though, I think replications could be used to counter telepaths, not to mention certain Akatsuki members are able to brain wash victims and make them look and fight like other people. Mutants who aren't telepaths may be vulnerable. Genjutsu may also be used to make mutants attack each other. Also, we don't know much about amaterasu, but it may be valid to assume that it shares some trait with Kakashi's jutsu. If that were the case, Itachi may be able to wink Iceman out of existance if Iceman's first attack fails or he hesitates.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_Also, we don't know much about amaterasu, but it may be valid to assume that it shares some trait with Kakashi's jutsu. _

No. Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan differs from Kakashi's.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 11, 2006)

> No. Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan differs from Kakashi's.


The sharingan is obviously different, the technique used may be similar, unless you know of some source that states that the two techniques are completely different.


----------



## Blitzomaru (Aug 11, 2006)

A 5-man team of Rogue nightcrawler Iceman Storm and Emma frost is enough to end this fight. Nightcrawler and storm are only there to boost Rogue's powers. Once she abosrbes them she's a hard hitting and teleporting juggernaut. And she can charge her body to electrocute any akatsuki member who thinks they can take her down with taijutsu. And if Kisame tries to make a giant lake then she can electrify the water. Iceman could solo this by himself but there is always the risk of a genjutsu user screwing up his mind. Emma makes this impossible.


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

Blitzomaru said:
			
		

> A 5-man team of Rogue nightcrawler Iceman Storm and Emma frost is enough to end this fight. Nightcrawler and storm are only there to boost Rogue's powers. Once she abosrbes them she's a hard hitting and teleporting juggernaut. And she can charge her body to electrocute any akatsuki member who thinks they can take her down with taijutsu. And if Kisame tries to make a giant lake then she can electrify the water. Iceman could solo this by himself but there is always the risk of a genjutsu user screwing up his mind. Emma makes this impossible.



Emma could also use her daimond form, and would be pretty much invulnerable.


----------



## Xx Sasuke xX (Aug 11, 2006)

Akatsuki would win Itachi can predict there next move itstantly


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

Xx Sasuke xX said:
			
		

> Akatsuki would win Itachi can predict there next move itstantly




He can predict a telekinetic blowing his brains out with a thought?  Hmm that's impressive.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 11, 2006)

There's a difference between predicting something and actually being able to do anything about it.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

He can predict a mindwipe? What's to defend against that?

_The sharingan is obviously different, the technique used may be similar, unless you know of some source that states that the two techniques are completely different._

Amaterasu is not related to Kakashi's Sharingan technique - it doesn't warp space-time. One certain after effect of the Amaterasu is black fire, which according to the Second Databook, is as hot as the sun and burns for seven days and nights.


----------



## Sesqoo (Aug 11, 2006)

Phoenix would take them all out by herself. Then there is Iceman another omega level mutant...

X-men takes this, with ease


----------



## The Sentry (Aug 11, 2006)

Diedara will jus bomb the x-men with his #18.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

And Prof. X will just kill the Akatsuki with a simple thought.


----------



## ZergKage (Aug 11, 2006)

Sarutobi700 said:
			
		

> Diedara will jus bomb the x-men with his #18.



Thats about as silly as me saying nightcrawler ports all their heads off


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

The X-Men has a lot of offense going for them at the start of the battle.


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 11, 2006)

> Amaterasu is not related to Kakashi's Sharingan technique - it doesn't warp space-time. One certain after effect of the Amaterasu is black fire, which according to the Second Databook, is as hot as the sun and burns for seven days and nights.


I'll stand corrected on that then. That does raise the question though: would amaterasu as it is be able to defeat Iceman? Seeing as the amaterasu flame can't be put out, would he then be burned into nothing?


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

He can just reform in a place where Amaterasu isn't. Itachi can't keep the technique up for ever.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

MR's right. Itachi would go blind before eliminating all traces of water vapor from the environment in a few km -- if not more than a mile -- radius.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Well CBG, if it's already at 2 km it'd be more than a mile.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

True.

To have Iceman powerless, you need to have him in an environment where all traces of water vapor are absent.


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

> Actually, the way it works is quite like how the Astreal plane works in Marvel. I wouldn't think it's unreasonable to say that the psychics might have some control of their own inside the other world.



Something to point out; Phoenix doesn't use the Astral Plane like other Telepaths. She has her own Sharigan World in a sense. Anyone remember the _'White Hot Room'? _ It's that reality Jean pulls herself into, usually right after the Phoenix forced her to go on a rampage. She can control anything inside it, including time. She also has pulled others into it, If I remember correctly, in Endsong (the guy, I think) 


Oh, and Rachel Summers would obliverate Akatsuki.  She can manifest 'into' a Phoenix. Not fun...


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

He'd have to torch the earth too, then.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_Something to point out; Phoenix doesn't use the Astral Plane like other Telepaths. She has her own Sharigan World in a sense. Anyone remember the 'White Hot Room'? It's that reality Jean pulls herself into, usually right after the Phoenix forced her to go on a rampage. She can control anything inside it, including time._

Yes, I remember the White Hot Room.

Although I don't think it's necessary. Cosmics > Narutoverse. Jean as the Phoenix avatar -- be it regular, Dark, or White of the Crown -- wins easily.

_She also has pulled others into it, If I remember correctly, in Endsong (the guy, I think) _

In Endsong? You mean to escape the Shiar's event horizon?

_Oh, and Rachel Summers would obliverate Akatsuki. She can manifest 'into' a Phoenix. Not fun..._

Well, she does have a Phoenix Fragment in her, which boosts her powers incredibly.

Plus, all the children possessing the Summers/Grey bloodline are incredibly powerful in their own right -- Nate Grey, Cable without TO virus, Rachel Grey, Stryfe. The only child more powerful than that is Hyperstorm -- a product of the Summers/Grey/Richards bloodline.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Richards, as in Franklin Richards?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah. The godchild.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

When Marvel makes a broken character, they sure fucking do it right.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_When Marvel makes a broken character, they sure fucking do it right._

Ha ha. . . being the son of Rachel Summers and Franklin Richards sure does. He was powerful enough for Galactus to consider devouring, as oppose to a planet's energies. In fact, that was how he was defeated.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't find a profile of him on Mutant High, any sites that might have?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

UncannyXmen.net


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

You know, this is serious overkill. I bet Molly from Runaways could take down Itachi. By HERSELF

X-23 would kill Kisame, in like, 5 minutes

Kitty Pryde would summon her dragon (the purple one) and just......destroy...

Next time, How'about the 'Power Pack' verse Akatsuki? A group on thier level.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

HYPERSTORM
-manipulate the four inherent properties of hyperspace: gravitational force, electromagnetic force, strong nuclear force and weak nuclear force, allowing him to augment his physical strength, endurance, reflexes, and durability, increase or negate the effects of gravity, project electricity, magnetic fields, heat energy, and explosive bursts, shape ambient energy in any manner he wishes, restructure matter at the sub-molecular level


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Basically a high-class reality warper.


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 11, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> Basically a high-class reality warper.



Reality Warpers....Does anyone else think 'Layla Miller' could withstand Itachi's MS? I mean...she'd know it's fake; hence, no pain. I think? Could she revert the Tsumynoki world to a normal one?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_Does anyone else think 'Layla Miller' could withstand Itachi's MS? I mean...she'd know it's fake; hence, no pain. I think? Could she revert the Tsumynoki world to a normal one?_

Good question. . . a real good question indeed. . .


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, didn't Kakashi realise that the world he was in was fake, but was still tortured? I suppose that if you have that much control over you mind it might work, but it could be like Prof X. ability to kill.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

Though, Layla Miller's mutation is limited omniscience, not telepathy.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

Still, _knowing_ it won't do you much good. Itachi told Kakashi what he was in, I believe, and that didn't help him much.


----------



## Havoc (Aug 11, 2006)

How the hell does Iceman do this?


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 11, 2006)

I think he simply froze the molecules.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't see why he can't do it.

But if you mean as to how he can freeze an attack from a cosmic. . . *shrugs*


----------



## The Wanderer (Aug 11, 2006)

Artificial_Sunshine said:
			
		

> You know, this is serious overkill. I bet Molly from Runaways could take down Itachi. By HERSELF


 If you really think about it, Molly Hayes can take him out. She won't let him use his MS, I can see her kicking him in the nuts the moment he closes his eyes, putting an end to the Uchiha. Because being super strong and invulnerable really kills Itachi, she would need  GOOD back up afterwards because she'll have to take a nap after dealing with such a weak opponent. Yeah he's that boring for someone like Molly. 

Nico can defeat him instantly (And the whole Akatsuki for that matter) if she had the Staff of One before the fight. She just need to say "Fuck off"  to put them out of comission or simply "Death" or something like that to kill them. She's a Dr. Strange-lite, kind  of.


----------



## |eMoCandY| (Aug 11, 2006)

i didnt want to go to advanced mode thats why i did not put my msg inside a spoiler tag.... grr.... it just wastes my time?!....


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2006)

_If you really think about it, Molly Hayes can take him out. She won't let him use his MS, I can see her kicking him in the nuts the moment he closes his eyes, putting an end to the Uchiha. Because being super strong and invulnerable really kills Itachi, she would need GOOD back up afterwards because she'll have to take a nap after dealing with such a weak opponent. Yeah he's that boring for someone like Molly. _

True, but we assume that Itachi severely underestimates Molly.

Someone's been reading their Runaways.

_Nico can defeat him instantly (And the whole Akatsuki for that matter) if she had the Staff of One before the fight. She just need to say "Fuck off" to put them out of comission or simply "Death" or something like that to kill them. She's a Dr. Strange-lite, kind of._

All she needs is the right spell. Plus, she wields a magic weapon that even scares Dormammu.

Next thing we know, it's the Runaways vs. the Akatsuki. . .


----------



## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _Oh, well when I think of Ice Man I think of Bobby with a thin layer of ice over him. _
> 
> Jeez. . . that was a few decades ago. . .
> 
> ...


Unless your planning on somehow getting the water out of you it's kinda impossible to do that and I'm pretty sure Iceman isn't limited to a certain range.And I don't think that even in his human form that he can die.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 11, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> Unless your planning on somehow getting the water out of you it's kinda impossible to do that and I'm pretty sure Iceman isn't limited to a certain range.And I don't think that even in his human form that he can die.



His human form can die. I think Ice Man is limited to range because he freezes the water vapors in the air, so if for some odd reason no water is in the air within say a km then he will be...sort of be powerless, I mean he could still change his whole body into ice and he could just flash freeze the person, but he won't be able to shoot ice at the person...So he isn't that powerless.  So it doesn't really matter if there is water in the air because he could just flash freeze the person using their own water from their body.


----------



## superbatman86 (Aug 11, 2006)

BroTaiJr said:
			
		

> His human form can die. I think Ice Man is limited to range because he freezes the water vapors in the air, so if for some odd reason no water is in the air within say a km then he will be...sort of be powerless, I mean he could still change his whole body into ice and he could just flash freeze the person, but he won't be able to shoot ice at the person...So he isn't that powerless.  So it doesn't really matter if there is water in the air because he could just flash freeze the person using their own water from their body.


But he has been shown to be able to shoot ice beams with no moisture when he was in space .Since being limited isn't possible for someone with unlimited potential he can't have a certain range.


----------



## The Wanderer (Aug 12, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> True, but we assume that Itachi severely underestimates Molly.
> Next thing we know, it's the Runaways vs. the Akatsuki. . .


Every single person who fought Molly so far understimated her : Chamber-Geoffrey Wilder, Excavator, Wolverine, Cloak, the Young Avengers, Xavin and the list will increase in the future)  so seeing Itachi being caught off guard is not something impossible, specially if we take into account that Molly's speciality is "lowering" the defenses of her foes. The time that Molly gave Logan his black eye he didn't saw it coming at all (And that had me in stitches for a while, by the way). His suicidal bunshins will make her laught and shurikens won't damage her whatsoever. Itachi's only possibility is MS, as I said, but that would lead him into seeing his Family Jewels crushed.



> Someone's been reading their Runaways.


 Err . . what can I say ? Kitty, Spidey (and their Ultimate versions), Ultimate Thor and the Runaways are my weakness. I'm lucky they aren't used that much (or at all) in the OB nowadays



> Next thing we know, it's the Runaways vs. the Akatsuki. . .


About that, I wouldn't go that far, but be careful with what you wish. 

But a Spider-man and Molly vs Tsunade and Post-TS Sakura is not a bad idea . . .


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 12, 2006)

_Every single person who fought Molly so far understimated her : Chamber-Geoffrey Wilder, Excavator, Wolverine, Cloak, the Young Avengers, Xavin and the list will increase in the future) so seeing Itachi being caught off guard is not something impossible, specially if we take into account that Molly's speciality is "lowering" the defenses of her foes._

Ha ha. . . Cloak was good. "Not even the strength of a god can -- " and what do you know.

_The time that Molly gave Logan his black eye he didn't saw it coming at all (And that had me in stitches for a while, by the way)._

THAT was funny.

_His suicidal bunshins will make her laught and shurikens won't damage her whatsoever. Itachi's only possibility is MS, as I said, but that would lead him into seeing his Family Jewels crushed._

Heh. That'd be something to see.

_Err . . what can I say ? Kitty, Spidey (and their Ultimate versions), Ultimate Thor and the Runaways are my weakness. I'm lucky they aren't used that much (or at all) in the OB nowadays_

Runaways rule. Pity that Alex was a bad guy since the beginning. . .

_About that, I wouldn't go that far, but be careful with what you wish. 

But a Spider-man and Molly vs Tsunade and Post-TS Sakura is not a bad idea . . ._

Or a Runaways + Young Avengers vs. the Konoha 12.


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 12, 2006)

The Wanderer said:
			
		

> Itachi's only possibility is MS, as I said, but that would lead him into seeing his Family Jewels crushed.


 
Not necessarily. It has been implied that Molly's power's are psionic in nature (seeing that her parents were telepaths, it'd make sense) so she could have some sort of hidden psychic ability yet to be revealed (seeing that the Runaways really haven't come into contact with any telepaths yet) 



> About that, I wouldn't go that far, but be careful with what you wish.
> 
> But a Spider-man and Molly vs Tsunade and Post-TS Sakura is not a bad idea . . .



Hehe, I'm a Runaway fangirl to the max (my old forum set was Molly themed) and I actually already created a Molly vs. PT-Sakura thread (Sakura was pwned) and Molly vs. Tsunade (Tsunade was also pwned) thread.

Runaways= AWESOME


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 12, 2006)

_Not necessarily. It has been implied that Molly's power's are psionic in nature (seeing that her parents were telepaths, it'd make sense) so she could have some sort of hidden psychic ability yet to be revealed (seeing that the Runaways really haven't come into contact with any telepaths yet) _

X-Men/Runaways. Emma Frost and co. did meet the Runaways in order to recruit (or take away) Molly.

_Hehe, I'm a Runaway fangirl to the max (my old forum set was Molly themed) and I actually already created a Molly vs. PT-Sakura thread (Sakura was pwned) and Molly vs. Tsunade (Tsunade was also pwned) thread._

Really? How so?

_Runaways= AWESOME_

Quoted for the absolute, undeniable truth.


----------



## Artificial_Sunshine (Aug 12, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _Not necessarily. It has been implied that Molly's power's are psionic in nature (seeing that her parents were telepaths, it'd make sense) so she could have some sort of hidden psychic ability yet to be revealed (seeing that the Runaways really haven't come into contact with any telepaths yet) _
> 
> X-Men/Runaways. Emma Frost and co. did meet the Runaways in order to recruit (or take away) Molly.
> 
> ...



I just checked my threads; at 3 am, I have selective memory....I only had Molly versus Sakura, and one person posted...saying she lost... 

On my Tsunade versus Powergirl thread, someone mentioned Molly beating Tsunade; I'll get around to making it (I make cute versus threads, with little banners and all!)


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 14, 2006)

superbatman86 said:
			
		

> But he has been shown to be able to shoot ice beams with no moisture when he was in space .Since being limited isn't possible for someone with unlimited potential he can't have a certain range.



Could you find a picture from that battle, I am not disagreeing with you I just want to see it.  
Here is a quote from Wikipedia: _According to the laws of thermodynamics, cold is defined as the absence of heat. Therefore, Iceman does not actually emanate cold, but rather absorbs and dispels heat. Since heat is energy, Iceman's power then becomes a psionic ability to manipulate energy.

Iceman is able to lower his body temperature without harm to himself, reaching minus 105F within a few tenths of a second. He is able to freeze any moisture in the air around him into unusually hard ice to form ice-slides and various projectiles and shields. He is also able to summon moisture from the air and create a flood._
So he might have summoned the water from earth or something, maybe he was just carrying a pack of water I have no clue, I did not see that fight. What he could have done was freeze the water in the enemies body. While in space he still can shoot waves of cold. Oh, oh, oh, if he was in his pure ice stat then he could have broken peices of himself off and then manipulated the ice and shot that.


----------



## ZergKage (Aug 14, 2006)

Hes able to shoot ice in space because its comics, plain and simple.


----------



## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 14, 2006)

Well I think that the comic makers have more common sense to know that there is no water in space, if you would post a picture of him shooting ice in space then I will agree with you.


----------



## azn_sephiroth (Aug 14, 2006)

I dont know....I still have no clue who the akatsuki leader is so...


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## superbatman86 (Aug 15, 2006)

Bro Tai Jr. said:
			
		

> Could you find a picture from that battle, I am not disagreeing with you I just want to see it.
> Here is a quote from Wikipedia: _According to the laws of thermodynamics, cold is defined as the absence of heat. Therefore, Iceman does not actually emanate cold, but rather absorbs and dispels heat. Since heat is energy, Iceman's power then becomes a psionic ability to manipulate energy._
> 
> _Iceman is able to lower his body temperature without harm to himself, reaching minus 105F within a few tenths of a second. He is able to freeze any moisture in the air around him into unusually hard ice to form ice-slides and various projectiles and shields. He is also able to summon moisture from the air and create a flood._
> So he might have summoned the water from earth or something, maybe he was just carrying a pack of water I have no clue, I did not see that fight. What he could have done was freeze the water in the enemies body. While in space he still can shoot waves of cold. Oh, oh, oh, if he was in his pure ice stat then he could have broken peices of himself off and then manipulated the ice and shot that.


It happened in X-men 170.I'm currently at school so I don't have a scanner with me sorry.


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## Bro Tai Jr. (Aug 15, 2006)

Oh, ok, so when you have a chance I would like to see a picture, thanks. 

P.S. Anyone know a website were I can buy 1-100 or 1-100+ X-Men comics for cheap? I don't care what kind of comics, whether they are the orginals or the newer printed editions?


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## Master of the Sharingan (Aug 17, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Iceman alone can arguably take out the entire Akatsuki, if not a good number of them.
> 
> And what X-Men incarnation are we using?


What are you talking about? Im betting that any 1 Akatsuki member could kill Iceman. Jean Grey and Wolverine are big threats, but I think Akatsuki wins.


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## Galt (Aug 17, 2006)

What we're talking about would be much clearer if you read most of the thread.  Iceman is fully capable of destroying any and probably all of the Akatsuki, but you would've learned that if you'd read up on any of his abilities.  Iceman is an Omega-level mutant whose full strength to date essentially manifests as total control over water molecules, including the ability to turn himself into organic ice.  In this form, he is essentially unkillable by any means the Akatsuki have at their disposal.  To name a few things he could do: He can tap more water to grow himself to gigantic size, as seen in this thread.  He can freeze the blood in his enemies' bodies from within, he has been known to dissociate himself into a water supply and use it as a method of travel, etc. etc. etc.  The Akatsuki are way out of their class when it comes to dealing with a being that has taken on abstract entities.  

And if anyone's seen the full potentials of the X-men regulars, they know that pretty much no one on the X-men is going to be easily taken.  Cyclops can reduce mountains to rubble, Wolverine...pretty much can't die, and it just goes on like this.  Iceman plus that is just plain overkill.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

_What are you talking about? Im betting that any 1 Akatsuki member could kill Iceman._

And how are you going to kill a being who can exist as sentient water in any of its states of matter? And how are you going to retaliate against a being who can freeze the blood in your brain?

_Jean Grey and Wolverine are big threats, but I think Akatsuki wins._

Telepathy is a great threat, one I don't see any Naruto ninja can defend himself against, to my knowledge.


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## The Question (Aug 19, 2006)

Hmm...I just had a thought.  Since Rogue has the ability to absorb memories and powers from other people, could she possibly gain the sharingan or byakugen if she touched an Uchiha or a Hyuuga?

Rogue can gain physical changes from her new, even if temporary powers.  She had Wolverine's bone claws for a while.


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## Galt (Aug 19, 2006)

If she managed to get Wolverine's bone claws, then I don't see any reason why she couldn't replicate advanced bloodlines.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 19, 2006)

If Rogue's body can physically adapt to incorporate the powers she absorbed, I don't see why she can't copy the Sharingan and the Byakugan.


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## RoguefanAM (Mar 2, 2007)

I hereby revive this thread!!!  

Anyway, it's been a long time since anyone posted here and since then we've gotten more information on exactly what the Akatsuki are capable of. Do you still have the same opinion on the outcome of this fight? Do you think the X-men win? Lose? 

Discuss!!!


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 2, 2007)

Naruto ninjas have no real means in defending themselves against telepathy, nor against a mutant who can exist as sentient water, even from their own bodies.


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## RoguefanAM (Mar 2, 2007)

O.K. since the OP never officially stated any type of X-men roster, how about I set one? Alright...

No telepaths, IceGod, or Darwin.  

How do the X-men fare then. 

*Edit*: Oh, and we're using all current X-men characters from the three main X-men titles. Meaning the likes of Cyclops, Colossus, Beast, Rogue, Cable, Warpath, etc...

If you want the full list (excluding the telepaths and Iceman, of course) just wiki X-men, you should find a character list there.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 2, 2007)

You do know, there's a lot of X-Men. Best to specify certain members.


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## RoguefanAM (Mar 2, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> You do know, there's a lot of X-Men. Best to specify certain members.



Just did. Look at my previous post. Sorry about the slowness. I have dial-up...


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## The Wanderer (Mar 2, 2007)

Ninjas, jutsus, that jutsus and the Will of Fire can't defeat Darwin. Period.


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## RoguefanAM (Mar 2, 2007)

Awww, _shit_. I KNEW I forget somebody. Nobody can beat the ever evolving man, known as Darwin...sorry if I sound a little pissy, I hate Darwin with a passion.  

Anyway, taking away Darwin, hopefully the fight will become more...balanced. I don't want to have to edit the roster, again...


----------



## Cipher (Mar 2, 2007)

Even with my limited knowledge of X-men, I know enough to confidently say that Cyclops alone can own Akatsuki by taking off his visor and looking at them.


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## Darklyre (Mar 2, 2007)

Excluding telepaths, Iceman, and Darwin, you've still got to deal with these:

Polaris - Magneto-lite, now with the ability to spread superplague.
Havok - Cyclops, only with aim.
Cyclops - He can blast mountains apart.
Kitty Pryde - Nigh unkillable, and if she catches anyone, they're as good as dead.
Cannonball - Nigh-invulnerable blast field and the ability to completely shatter entire city blocks at a time.
Cable - Simulated TK, as well as part of Deadpool's regeneration. If his Infonet powers are there, he also has the ability to overload someone's mind.
Lady Mastermind - Think genjutsu, only it can actually kill you.
Karima - Superstrength/endurance/speed/agility, flight, nano-regeneration, electric blasts, and a whole bunch of built-in guns.
Dust - Flying sandstorm capable of stripping your flesh off your bones. She's also nigh-impossible to put under genjutsu, since Marvel telepaths can barely even detect her in sand form.
Hellion - Telekinesis, sound-speed flight.
Elixir - Complete control over all biological matter within a short range, including his own body. He can heal mortal wounds, as well as kill people.


----------



## Hagen (Mar 3, 2007)

There's plenty of X-men that could _solo_ the Narutoverse. Let alone the Akatsuki.


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 3, 2007)

For those too lazy to look it up, here's the current roster (minus telepaths, Iceman and Darwin):

*Astonishing X-Men*
Cyclops (powerless as of the last arc)
Armor
Beast
_Colossus_
_Shadowcat_
Wolverine 

*Uncanny X-Men*
Professor X (powerless as of HoM)
_Havok_
Nightcrawler
_Polaris_
Warpath 

*X-Men*
Rogue
_Cable_
_Cannonball_
Karima Shapandar
Mystique
Sabretooth 

*New X-Men*
Surge
_Dust_
_Hellion_
_Mercury_
Prodigy (powerless as of HoM)
Rockslide
X-23

I've italicised those that I think would be a signifigant problem for the Akatsuki at the powerlevel we've seen to date.

Even the weak "New X-Men" team I think would give them signifigant problems.  Add in their teachers (minus Emma) to even up the numbers and I can't really envision Akatsuki winning from what we've seen so far.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Mar 3, 2007)

Xmen get badly rape

AL creates 30% clones casually for every xmen including charles

Itachi MS's a few at a time

Kisame drowns jubiliee, wolverine, and cyclops

diedra blows up storm with her clay bombs

hidan gets jean's blood and rapes her

kakuzu takes gambit's heart as well as beast

zetsu eats nightcrawler

obtio casually steals all of iceman's techniques moves and predicts attacks using sharigan

etc.. etc..

Naruto's mom (blue hair) casually kills rogue


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## The Wanderer (Mar 3, 2007)

Mutant powers can't be copied.


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## jplaya2023 (Mar 3, 2007)

The Wanderer said:


> Mutant powers can't be copied.



rogue casually does it by touching


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## Timur Lane (Mar 3, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> rogue casually does it by touching



Dosent mean Itachi can copy mutant powers with Sharingan.


----------



## The Wanderer (Mar 3, 2007)

My idea was incomplete. Mutant powers can't be copied with Sharingan. 

That bloodline mimics any ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu. No more, no less. And last time I chekced, mutant powers aren't bound by the chakra system.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Mar 3, 2007)

noxname said:


> Dosent mean Itachi can copy mutant powers with Sharingan.



poster just said mutant powers cant be coped and i just proved him wrong


----------



## Timur Lane (Mar 3, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> poster just said mutant powers cant be copied and i just proved him wrong



You dident prove anyone wrong, just as usual.

Scans or it dident happen.


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 3, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> poster just said mutant powers cant be coped and i just proved him wrong



If Itachi could copy DNA abilities, he'd have a Byakugan, the Aburame's bugs, Kiba's dog jutsu, Chouji's family size changing techiniques, and probably a hell of a lot of others already.


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## Comic Book Guy (Mar 3, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> Xmen get badly rape
> 
> AL creates 30% clones casually for every xmen including charles



1) That's done via preptime.

2) If Akatsuki gets preptime, why not the X-Men?

3) As if the X-Men would willingly give 30% of their powers to the enemy.



> Itachi MS's a few at a time



Which can be countered by some of the X-Men high-caliber telepaths.



> Kisame drowns jubiliee, wolverine, and cyclops
> 
> diedra blows up storm with her clay bombs
> 
> hidan gets jean's blood and rapes her



Jean mentally dominates Hidan. In fact, no one in the Akatsuki has shown any counter or defenses against telepathy.



> kakuzu takes gambit's heart as well as beast
> 
> zetsu eats nightcrawler



Nightcrawler can teleport part of anyone's limbs and/or head, if he wanted to.



> obtio casually steals all of iceman's techniques moves and predicts attacks using sharigan



*INCORRECT.*

Iceman can solo this, really.

A mutant's powers is a kekkei genkai. Not a jutsu.

So no, no Sharingan can copy it.

And it has yet to be proven that Tobi is Obito.



> etc.. etc..
> 
> Naruto's mom (blue hair) casually kills rogue



Prove that it's Naruto's mother.

And no one knows anything what the Blue Hair member can do.



jplaya2023 said:


> rogue casually does it by touching



Rogue is a mutant who's powers allows her to temporarily drain and borrow other mutants powers.

In Naruto terms, a Kekkei Genkai that temporarily borrows other Kekkei Genkai.



jplaya2023 said:


> poster just said mutant powers cant be coped and i just proved him wrong



And yet, you're wrong.

Rogue's a mutant.

Get you're X-Men facts straight.


----------



## Heartgobbler (Mar 4, 2007)

Mutant powers are effectively bloodline limits. Sharingan cannot copy them.

On the other hand, if Rogue touches a ninja, she would absorb both the abilities and the knowledge of how to use them.

As for who would win, it depends on how fast X-men learn the Akatsuki strengths. If they can match the fighting pairs approporiately (like sending the poison-immune Colossus against Sasori or Iceman against Kisame), they will win. If they end in random duels, they will likely lose as most of them can't take as much damage as the Akatsuki, nor can they move as fast.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Mar 4, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> 1) That's done via preptime.
> 
> 2) If Akatsuki gets preptime, why not the X-Men?
> 
> ...



No you have been bested my me in a debate again. 

Itachi is a Uchiha what is your point

Stop hating on naruto and get used to the idea that it is not as weak as you and other memebrs make it seem.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 4, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> Stop hating on naruto and get used to the idea that it is not as weak as you and other memebrs make it seem.


Lets see, Naruto and DBZ are the best... unwavering. Them being your favorite and in your opinion the best makes them the winners by default. Ignoring everything that contradicts your views regardless of their validity.

Your views are infailable as they come strictly from your own opinions.


----------



## jplaya2023 (Mar 4, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> Lets see, Naruto and DBZ are the best... unwavering. Them being your favorite and in your opinion the best makes them the winners by default. Ignoring everything that contradicts your views regardless of their validity.
> 
> Your views are infailable as they come strictly from your own opinions.




posting useless pics doesnt make you have a point. Now if you disagree with the canon presented, by all means debate against it.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 4, 2007)

jplaya2023 said:


> posting useless pics doesnt make you have a point. Now if you disagree with the canon presented, by all means debate against it.


The point was you haven't presented any canon. There is nothing to debate.

You have not provided an argument, until you do there is nothing to debate.


----------



## SoulTaker (Mar 4, 2007)

*Before I cut through all this please learn to quote properly,jplaya.Break down a post by the point you want to debate as I have done here.It makes debating a whole lot easier instead of having to go an copy and paste your response along with CBG's.*



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> AL sends out a bushin as soon as the battle begin and learns their abilities while he's creating clones from about 500 meters away.
> 
> The xmen would have no idea whats going on. They hit people who keep dissapearing while the real members are casually hiding and scouting the opposition.



Yet AL has never dealt with opponents in such a way,and he is going to be dealing with a couple of characters that are nigh-omnipotent.Iceman can't die unless all the moisture on the planet the fight would be on is somehow "destroyed",so you're saying that AL can break down subatomic particles when noone in Naruto has shown to work on the subatomic scale.And your completely forgetting that New Sun destroyed all life on Earth,an Earth with Spiderman and whatever other Marvel characters you wank to.

Which can be countered by some of the X-Men high-caliber telepaths.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Maybe



And when has anyone from Akatsuki shown that they can defend against someone attacking their thoughts.The only type of relation to psionics they have is genjutsu and pretty much every telepath in the MU is adept at using their powers to create illusions as well.The ones that are very skilled operate on a higher plane known as the astral plane,so when an Akatsuki can operate on a higher plane of existence then they can be mentioned in the same sentence as a mid-high tier telepath in the MU.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> No Hidan scythe's her and casually pierces his heart. Killing her instantly



In the time it takes for Hidan to think of using his scythe Jean has already shut down both hemispheres of his brain.She has to think to utterly crush his mind,and its already been shown and stated that Hidan's attack speed is the slowest in Akatsuki.


			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Irrevelent since he's in zetsu's stomach being digested.
> 
> 
> INCORRECT.



And if Zetsu is going to get Nightcrawler in his stomach how?What you need to understand is that Nightcrawler bassically has the Hiraishin jutsu and can teleport anywhere he wants.So Zetsu would never catch him,and because its not speed but teleportation Itachi can't keep up with him.Nightcrawler simply teleports to an Akatsuki then teleports then teleports there head head off.




			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> No you overrate iceman. Itachi melts him with "katon gouhanau ninjutsu" (Fire storm fire dragon)



The Children of the Vault tried to melt Iceman and he simply reformed,actually Northstar and Aurora tried to melt him before and he reformed because there was moisture.Itachi's flame have not shown to break down moisture at a subatomic level,and the tiniest bit will allow him to reform.Just so you get the idea think of Cell from DBZ and how even one particle survives he can reform.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> Sharigan can read and predict techniques so itachi and obito tell each member what the enemy is about to do and how to counter it.



The X-men's telepath can do the same thing so whats your point.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> And obito is tobi. A member had a canon thread which indicated so.



Canon means it comes from the original source material meaning the manga.When it is revealed or severly implied that Obito and Tobi are the same person then you can make a case.Right now all you have is similar names but nothing from the manga to suggest they are the same person.



			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> There was a thread here with the japanese ending which stated it was his mother.



That thread was never proven to contain real information.And Kishi has never even confirmed if he has written the end for Naruto,so its unlikely anyone could steal that information or that it would find its way here.And if it really did then it would be a huge deal in Japan and in turn we would eventually find out here in the States.Until then we run off of what has been shown in the manga,not speculation from a board member or any such questionable material.




			
				jplaya2023 said:
			
		

> She has no idea how to use her chakra(life force) so it's irrelevent since it takes a skilled user at chakra to perform the seals.



She would because she not only absorbs a persons abilities but there conciousness as well,and in the conciousness of the Akatsuki member os how to use their abilities.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 4, 2007)

> AL sends out a bushin as soon as the battle begin and learns their abilities while he's creating clones from about 500 meters away.
> 
> The xmen would have no idea whats going on. They hit people who keep dissapearing while the real members are casually hiding and scouting the opposition.



You act as if they won't adapt.

You can't learn their abilities. Mutant powers are like kekkei genkai.



> Maybe



Definitely.



> No Hidan scythe's her and casually pierces his heart. Killing her instantly



Jean mind controls Hidan before that can happen and reads his intentions directly from his mind.



> Irrevelent since he's in zetsu's stomach being digested.



You can't prove it; nothing has been offensively seen from Zetsu.



> No you overrate iceman. Itachi melts him with "katon gouhanau ninjutsu" (Fire storm fire dragon)



And Iceman reforms from the water moisture of the environment of the Akatsuki's own body.



> Sharigan can read and predict techniques so itachi and obito tell each member what the enemy is about to do and how to counter it.



Pity that no mutant possesses techniques, except kekkei genkai.



> And obito is tobi. A member had a canon thread which indicated so.



Manga = canon

Theories are not -- they're theories.



> There was a thread here with the japanese ending which stated it was his mother.



Manga is the highest form of canon. Anime openings and endings are irrelevant.



> She has no idea how to use her chakra(life force) so it's irrelevent since it takes a skilled user at chakra to perform the seals.



Chakra doesn't exist for Marvel characters.



> No you have been bested my me in a debate again.



No, you're incorrect on a lot of points, per usual.



> Itachi is a Uchiha what is your point



Means little.



> Stop hating on naruto and get used to the idea that it is not as weak as you and other memebrs make it seem.



Stop liking Naruto and overestimating them. They certainly can't effect certain X-Men, and can't attack, least kill certain members.



> posting useless pics doesnt make you have a point. Now if you disagree with the canon presented, by all means debate against it.



Problem is, you made few valid points, if any. You're just going by your own personal observations which contradict and exaggerate actual manga canon.


----------



## Spy_Smasher (Mar 5, 2007)

This is just ... n/m.

Maybe the Akatsuki could beat the 9 weakest X-men ever, but that's about it, I think. I don't even like the X-men at all and I know this.


----------



## Halcyon Days (Mar 5, 2007)

Phoenix for the win..


----------



## Hamaru (Mar 5, 2007)

Wolverine is said to no longer be effected much by mental attacks, due to Xavior messing with his mind so much. So he would take out Itachi solo. Gambet would take out Sasori, Storm would take out someone lol, Iceman would freeze Hidan, Cyclops would take out Kakuzu and Jean will take out the left overs


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 5, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> Wolverine is said to no longer be effected much by mental attacks, due to Xavior messing with his mind so much. So he would take out Itachi solo. Gambet would take out Sasori, Storm would take out someone lol, Iceman would freeze Hidan, Cyclops would take out Kakuzu and Jean will take out the left overs



According to him, he has "level 6" psychic defenses.  Emma comments once that she's a "level 7" telepath and would be able to dissisemble his sheilds (though she's not sure what would be left of his brain in the process).

Wolverine's probably better than Hidan in general.  And Hiden's one of the all-mighty Akatsuki so that kinda sets the bar for this fight.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Mar 5, 2007)

...
There are actually alot of the 'low level' x-men who have a powerset that if given the right circumstances can just one shot akatsuki. So really, you gots to specify this kind of stuff.. otherwise you're just overkilling Naruto.....


----------



## Hale (Mar 5, 2007)

> Wolverine is said to no longer be effected much by mental attacks, due to Xavior messing with his mind so much. So he would take out Itachi solo. Gambet would take out Sasori, Storm would take out someone lol, Iceman would freeze Hidan, Cyclops would take out Kakuzu and Jean will take out the left overs


 Wolverine still wouldn't beat itachi, In fact wolverine should be dead repeatedly by now. Wolverine lives off jobber aura alone


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 5, 2007)

Though, Itachi can't kill Wolverine. Best anyone can do to Wolverine at this point is KO him, since his healing factor has been upped to an insane regen factor.


----------



## Hale (Mar 5, 2007)

> Though, Itachi can't kill Wolverine. Best anyone can do to Wolverine at this point is KO him, since his healing factor has been upped to an insane regen factor.


 I'm fairly sure decapitation will still kill him Unfortunately he's pretty likely to grow a new head knowing him


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 6, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Wolverine's probably better than Hidan in general.  And Hiden's one of the all-mighty Akatsuki so that kinda sets the bar for this fight.



Probably? Hidan's the most pathetic immortal I've encountered in all of fiction. Immortality is useless when a decapitation is still just as incapacitating.

@Hale: Wolvie has survived a point blank Nuke AND regenerated from just a skeleton.

And if this is adamantium skeleton Wolvie, I don't see anybody in Akatsuki getting his head off.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2007)

Hale said:


> I'm fairly sure decapitation will still kill him Unfortunately he's pretty likely to grow a new head knowing him



It would have worked on feral Wolverine, as detailed in the Xavier Protocols.

But on the current Adamantium skeleton, ridiculous regen factor Wolverine? I sincerely doubt it.


----------



## Hale (Mar 6, 2007)

> @Hale: Wolvie has survived a point blank Nuke AND regenerated from just a skeleton.
> 
> And if this is adamantium skeleton Wolvie, I don't see anybody in Akatsuki getting his head off.


How did he survive a nuke... this is why i don't like wolverine gambit should have killed him when he had a chance
edit: Wait when did he get adamantium back didn't magneto do away with that


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2007)

Hale said:


> How did he survive a nuke... this is why i don't like wolverine gambit should have killed him when he had a chance



Adamantium. Durable even by cosmic standards.



> edit: Wait when did he get adamantium back didn't magneto do away with that



Magneto ripped out his Adamantium on the molecular level.

For a time, Wolverine's mutant abilities greatly increased, since the normally toxic Adamantium was absent from his body.

Then he was abducted by Apocalypse and brainwashed into becoming his then Horseman as Death. Apocalypse provided Wolverine with Adamantium again after removing the metal from Sabertooth.

Weapon X provided Adamantium to Sabertooth again after that.


----------



## Hale (Mar 6, 2007)

> Adamantium. Durable even by cosmic standards.


What about the rest of him lol... you know his heart brain internal organs. I think the only person i hate more then wolverine is caitsith


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 6, 2007)

Hale said:


> edit: Wait when did he get adamantium back didn't magneto do away with that



I've yet to discover how he got it back I'm afraid. 

CBG, would you care to shed some light on the subject?


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 6, 2007)

Hale said:


> What about the rest of him lol... you know his heart brain internal organs. I think the only person i hate more then wolverine is caitsith



Nitro blew everything off of his skeleton. He regenerated back to full health in minutes.


----------



## Hale (Mar 6, 2007)

> Nitro blew everything off of his skeleton. He regenerated back to full health in minutes.


Either invincibilty or jobber aura needs to be listed as wolverine's powers.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2007)

Magneto ripped out his Adamantium on the molecular level.

For a time, Wolverine's mutant abilities greatly increased, since the normally toxic Adamantium was absent from his body.

Then he was abducted by Apocalypse and brainwashed into becoming his then Horseman as Death. Apocalypse provided Wolverine with Adamantium again after removing the metal from Sabertooth.

Weapon X provided Adamantium to Sabertooth again after that.



> What about the rest of him lol... you know his heart brain internal organs. I think the only person i hate more then wolverine is caitsith





His brain remained intact, and due to the Adamantium skull, it's apparently well-shielded.

One may say the metal may be superheated, but Adamantium doesn't conduct heat (unless that was retconned).



> Either invincibilty or jobber aura needs to be listed as wolverine's powers.



Can't. Those are patented by Squirrel Girl.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 6, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Can't. Those are patented by Squirrel Girl.



More then one being can't have the same power?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 6, 2007)

Mortalis said:


> More then one being can't have the same power?



With regards to those and certain others, Squirrel Girl allows others to draw upon her patented powers.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 6, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> With regards to those and certain others, Squirrel Girl allows others to draw upon her patented powers.



It's good to see she's such a gracious host.


----------



## Hale (Mar 6, 2007)

> With regards to those and certain others, Squirrel Girl allows others to draw upon her patented powers.


She needs to ban wolverine


----------



## Chocochip (Mar 6, 2007)

...if this is movie xmen xmen lose terribly. any other xmen except the new cartoon one, wins though. x-men comic heroes like iceman and jean grey are broken.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Mar 6, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> *Wolverine is said to no longer be effected much by mental attacks, due to Xavior messing with his mind so much*. So he would take out Itachi solo. Gambet would take out Sasori, Storm would take out someone lol, Iceman would freeze Hidan, Cyclops would take out Kakuzu and Jean will take out the left overs



Where was that stated?

Hale does have a good point. Wolverine is on equal par with Steven Rogers in terms of jobbing

And that's why I hate them both

Because they suck

Screw you Gooba


----------



## Iris (Mar 6, 2007)

This is such curbstomp it's not funny even if it were a joke.


----------



## Hamaru (Mar 6, 2007)

Gai said:


> Where was that stated?
> 
> Hale does have a good point. Wolverine is on equal par with Steven Rogers in terms of jobbing
> 
> ...



I read it on another site but I think Wika might say so too.
)


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 6, 2007)

There are varying reasons as to why Wolverine is nigh-immune to telepaths (Deadpool is fully immune, Wolverine can still be mind-controlled with difficulty). One, it's been said that adamantium can block some telepathy. Two, his memories have already been tampered with, so telepaths could have trouble trying to manipulate him. Three, he's fought telepaths before, and knows enough of their tricks to sorta fight back.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 6, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> I read it on another site but I think Wika might say so too.
> )



I've often wondered how people get away with sigs like yours.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 6, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> There are varying reasons as to why Wolverine is nigh-immune to telepaths (Deadpool is fully immune, Wolverine can still be mind-controlled with difficulty).


*Wolverine vol.3 #46*, _high level psionic shields_ implanted by Professor Charles Xavier.

Psionics not just mental attacks period.


----------



## The Wanderer (Mar 6, 2007)

I thought that Ultimate Wolverine was the only one (out of all the Wolvies out there) with high resistance to psychic attacks. You always learn something else everyday .


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 6, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> *Wolverine vol.3 #46*, _high level psionic shields_ implanted by Professor Charles Xavier.
> 
> Psionics not just mental attacks period.



Wow, didn't know that. Must've gotten all the different continuities confused.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Mar 7, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> I read it on another site but I think Wika might say so too.
> )



No it doesn't

You said



Hamaru said:


> Wolverine is said to no longer be effected much by mental attacks, *due to Xavior messing with his mind so much*. So he would take out Itachi solo.



Wikipedia says



> Due to high level psionic shields implanted by Professor Charles Xavier, Wolverine's mind is highly resistant to telepathic assault and probing



Messing with their brain is different thought I do understand you're meant to say that Xavier implanted shields in there. Well anyway you're incorrect in saying that you can't mess with his head since Emma Frost said she could and Nick Fury messed with his head in Secret Wars


----------



## Yōkai (Mar 7, 2007)

The X-men rapes Naruto nins , unless we're talking about movie X-Men.

People like Iceman or Phoenix are insane massive overkill, seriously, the ninjas cant do shit against them, not even the freakin bijuus could.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Gai said:


> Messing with their brain is different thought I do understand you're meant to say that Xavier implanted shields in there. Well anyway you're incorrect in saying that you can't mess with his head since Emma Frost said she could and Nick Fury messed with his head in Secret Wars


Different time frame, also mental attacks should still work its Psionic attacks to his mind specifically.
*Spoiler*: __


----------



## master bruce (Mar 7, 2007)

wolverine can be mind raped by itachi's jutsu.


Jean grey goes pheonix then x-men wipe the floor.

unless someone decapitates her before hand, which japanese anime characters love to do. S-class are fast enough to move at near sound speed(some may move faster) So they could get across a single 100 yards stretch faster than most human eyes can see.



If any of the x-men elite like professor x or rogue get in this battle I don't know.



If jean grey can go pheonix then all s-class die a horrrible death.
X-men if jean goes pheonix or wolverine doen'ts get mind raped/decapitated.
S-class if they can kill jean grey first and decapitate wolverine/kill professor x/nullify rogue and iceman.



Most likely though s-class will die.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

master bruce said:


> wolverine can be mind raped by itachi's jutsu.



How so? Unless Itachi knew about Wolverine's past like he knew Sasuke (due to being directly involved), I don't see how Itachi can psychologically torture him.

If he did what he did to Kakashi to Wolverine, there would be little point -- healing factor and all.



> Jean grey goes pheonix then x-men wipe the floor.
> 
> unless someone decapitates her before hand, which japanese anime characters love to do. S-class are fast enough to move at near sound speed(some may move faster) So they could get across a single 100 yards stretch faster than most human eyes can see.
> 
> ...



There are other useful X-Men too. No one in Naruto has so far shown a proper defense against telepathy.


----------



## united (Mar 7, 2007)

dr x can control your mind even if he's miles away of you so he controlls 1 of the akatsuki and kills them all.


----------



## Kisame. (Mar 7, 2007)

itachi can mind rape and kill wolverine in tsukiyiomi. healing has no effect in ur mind and he doesnt need ur past to torture you. Wolverine still feels pain and overload of that is still enough to kill him.

wouldnt matter as he would just come back but still.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Wouldn't matter Wolverine would still regenerate in his mind. Its moot to argue as the point is to max someones pain tolerance. Or mentally torture them in some way. Wolverine would easily survive anything Itachi did.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Kisame said:


> itachi can mind rape and kill wolverine in tsukiyiomi.



How so? So far, the victims of Tsukiyomi haven't died from it.



> healing has no effect in ur mind and he doesnt need ur past to torture you. Wolverine still feels pain and overload of that is still enough to kill him.
> 
> wouldnt matter as he would just come back but still.


[/quote]

Actually, believe it or not, Wolverine's healing factor does extends to his mind as well, to a certain extent.

Not sure whether that has been retconned or addressed after HoM.


----------



## Iris (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> How so? So far, the victims of Tsukiyomi haven't died from it.



Because Itachi didn't wish his victims to die. He likes to torture them instead.

Problem is, it probably wouldn't work on Wolverine.

And his healing factor is of course playing a major role in it...


----------



## Enclave (Mar 7, 2007)

Bro Tai Jr. said:


> True but when Jean is Phoenix she would attack anyone, Wolverine can still drown, and as for Ice Man, Itachi can just use Katon against him. I think it would be even for a while but the X-Men would win.  It would be an awsome fight to see.



I have to say this is my favorite.  Somebody actually thinking a Katon would be the slighest bit useful against Iceman.


----------



## Hamaru (Mar 7, 2007)

Xavior and Ema frost abilitys to mess with your head are above Itachi. Wolverine would be able to take Itachi simple.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

DeathScythe said:


> Because Itachi didn't wish his victims to die. He likes to torture them instead.
> 
> Problem is, it probably wouldn't work on Wolverine.
> 
> And his healing factor is of course playing a major role in it...



In one translation, Kisame commented that the jutsu was designed to break one's spirit.


----------



## Hagen (Mar 7, 2007)

Itachi can kill Wolverine imo, not with Tsukuyomi but with amaterasu instead

If he's caught by amaterasu he will become a burning adamantium skeleton for 7 days non stop, and i doubt that he can regenerate from that.

However, there are many other X-men that can pwn Itachi with their left nut.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Well, Wolverine having survived a nuke and Nitro, Amaterasu would just arguably prevent Wolverine's regen in the affected areas for the time of the 7 days and nights.


----------



## Iris (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> In one translation, Kisame commented that the jutsu was designed to break one's spirit.



Indeed, but by breaking one's spirit totally might be deadly.

[Shinsen-Subs]​_Jigoku​_Shoujo​_Futakomori​_-​_12​_[F5841828].avi


----------



## Hamaru (Mar 7, 2007)

Locard said:


> Itachi can kill Wolverine imo, not with Tsukuyomi but with amaterasu instead
> 
> If he's caught by amaterasu he will become a burning adamantium skeleton for 7 days non stop, and i doubt that he can regenerate from that.
> 
> However, there are many other X-men that can pwn Itachi with their left nut.



How would amaterasu stop wolverine from healing? Wolverine is said to be good at ninjutsu and is one of the most fearsome mutants alive. (Marvel.com)
He would take Itachi's eyes out if need be.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> How would amaterasu stop wolverine from healing? Wolverine is said to be good at ninjutsu and is one of the most fearsome mutants alive. (Marvel.com)
> He would take Itachi's eyes out if need be.



Non-stop burning fire as hot as the sun.

His skeleton won't melt, but the healing factor will be damn hard-pressed to regenerate new cells in the midst of such heat.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Non-stop burning fire as hot as the sun.



I'm still not convinced that isn't an hyperbole.

However, the non-stop burning would mean that Wolvie would be regenerating constantly for the 7 days and nights it's supposed to last.


----------



## Sasori (Mar 7, 2007)

After the 7 days, his body will regen?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Mortalis said:


> I'm still not convinced that isn't an hyperbole.



Well, the databook was the one that listed the effects of Amaterasu, and the databook was written by Kishimoto.



> However, the non-stop burning would mean that Wolvie would be regenerating constantly for the 7 days and nights it's supposed to last.



Indeed.



Sasori said:


> After the 7 days, his body will regen?



Pretty much. So far, his regen factor has been ridiculously amped up due post HoM. The Wolverine CW tie-in just punched it home.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Well, the databook was the one that listed the effects of Amaterasu, and the databook was written by Kishimoto.



I'm not debating the point with you CBG. I'm well aware of what the data book says. There's just some kinks in that description, that's all.


----------



## Enclave (Mar 7, 2007)

Yup, Wolverine is pretty much immortal at this point.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 7, 2007)

Enclave said:


> Yup, Wolverine is pretty much immortal at this point.



"Pretty much"?  He can't die unless he chooses to.

So unless one of the Akatsuki has some form of mind control (and very powerful mind control to get through his defenses) none of them could kill him.

In theory Wolverine could solo the Akatsuki just because he can keep coming at them until they finally die.

Regardless he could clearly take out Sasori (poison would be worthless against Wolverine), Deidra (clay bombs < Nitro), Hidan (maybe not kill, but at least dice up and hide the body pieces), and Kakuzu (eventually).  All four of the to-date seen-in-action Akatsuki.

From what we've seen of Kisame and Itachi may be somewhat more annoying, but neither of them have any exceptional abilities that they've shown so far.


----------



## Enclave (Mar 7, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> "Pretty much"?  He can't die unless he chooses to.



He still technically can die unlike Mr. Immortal who cannot die even if he wants to.

Also Wolverine will eventually be retconned into being able to be killed eventually.  Just got to wait until he gets a new writer.  One who isn't such a Wolverine fanboy.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Well, the databook was the one that listed the effects of Amaterasu, and the databook was written by Kishimoto.


Then again one should mention for such a "powerful" technique, why didn't he just use it on Jiraiya? 

I don't stock much faith in a technique that was used on a wall instead of a person, when its claimed to be as hot as the sun and so on.

So until we see whats really going on with that technique its safer to pretend it doesn't exist.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 7, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> Then again one should mention for such a "powerful" technique, why didn't he just use it on Jiraiya?



Sannin have auto shields that prevents anything less then a Sannin from harming them.

Not including the Bijuu, Jinchuuriki, Gai, Kabuto, and Sarutobi, but they're the exceptions that prove the rule.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Mortalis said:


> I'm not debating the point with you CBG. I'm well aware of what the data book says. There's just some kinks in that description, that's all.



Indeed.

Was that black fire hot as it is, why didn't it keep burning?



Enclave said:


> Yup, Wolverine is pretty much immortal at this point.



Well, it'd take some incredible force to completely obliterate his skeleton.



EvilMoogle said:


> "Pretty much"?  He can't die unless he chooses to.



Well, I'm not sure how Wolverine would handle every single molecule of his body destroyed. Then again, I don't see if that will ever happen -- Adamantium is Adamantium.



> So unless one of the Akatsuki has some form of mind control (and very powerful mind control to get through his defenses) none of them could kill him.
> 
> In theory Wolverine could solo the Akatsuki just because he can keep coming at them until they finally die.
> 
> ...



Best anyone Naruto ninja can do against Wolverine is KO him and incapicitate him before he wakes up..



Enclave said:


> He still technically can die unlike Mr. Immortal who cannot die even if he wants to.
> 
> Also Wolverine will eventually be retconned into being able to be killed eventually.  Just got to wait until he gets a new writer.  One who isn't such a Wolverine fanboy.



I want a healing factor retcon, damn it. This one now is plain ridiculous.



Vynjira said:


> Then again one should mention for such a "powerful" technique, why didn't he just use it on Jiraiya?
> 
> I don't stock much faith in a technique that was used on a wall instead of a person, when its claimed to be as hot as the sun and so on.
> 
> So until we see whats really going on with that technique its safer to pretend it doesn't exist.



Understandable.

With regards as to why Itachi didn't use it, it uses quite a bit of chakra. Using it after 2 Tsukiyomis in one day drained him. In addition, according to translations, Kisame and Itachi can't handle Jiraiya.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> In addition, according to translations, Kisame and Itachi can't handle Jiraiya.



He also added that in the best case scenario, they could kill him but would die in the process... Unless that was filler. I haven't read the manga around that point.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Understandable.
> 
> With regards as to why Itachi didn't use it, it uses quite a bit of chakra. Using it after 2 Tsukiyomis in one day drained him. In addition, according to translations, Kisame and Itachi can't handle Jiraiya.


Well if it was A: As hot as the sun or anywhere near that hot, one shot even missed would have taken Jiraiya out. Also wasn't Itachi's Jutsus fast enough to use it on Jiraiya and not miss? If Jiraiya can avoid it then what makes anyone believe no other character could avoid it. The claims to use it often land on people that are just as fast as any other Naruto Character.

The point is if Itachi used it on Jiraiya it should have killed him by its description. He didn't use it on Jiraiya and Kisame was there for back up so whats the deal?

There is too much unexplained about the technique and why he hasn't used it on anyone. Yea it uses a bunch of Chakra but so does MS right? If the technique was half as broken as people pretend it is then why hasn't it been used on anyone?


----------



## The Internet (Mar 7, 2007)

....X-men, no arguement.

Emma Frost alone could own them all.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> Well if it was A: As hot as the sun or anywhere near that hot, one shot even missed would have taken Jiraiya out.



Not to mention melt down a lot more, due to the sheer heat alone.



> Also wasn't Itachi's Jutsus fast enough to use it on Jiraiya and not miss? If Jiraiya can avoid it then what makes anyone believe no other character could avoid it. The claims to use it often land on people that are just as fast as any other Naruto Character.



Not sure how fast Amaterasu is, since it occurred off-panel. Furthermore, judging by the hole, it's suggested to be a big, black fireball.



> The point is if Itachi used it on Jiraiya it should have killed him by its description. He didn't use it on Jiraiya and Kisame was there for back up so whats the deal?



Well, perhaps he was being conservative, having finished Tsukiyomi on Sasuke and used one prior on Kakashi. So far, that's the only possible explanation that comes to my mind.



> There is too much unexplained about the technique and why he hasn't used it on anyone. Yea it uses a bunch of Chakra but so does MS right? If the technique was half as broken as people pretend it is then why hasn't it been used on anyone?



Continued employment of the MS deteriorates one's eyesight. That's one side-effect of the MS, perhaps one that any user would avoid and thus use the MS sparingly.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Continued employment of the MS deteriorates one's eyesight. That's one side-effect of the MS, perhaps one that any user would avoid and thus use the MS sparingly.


That only furthers the reasoning for using Amaterasu instead of MS.


----------



## Thanatos (Mar 7, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> That only furthers the reasoning for using Amaterasu instead of MS.



Ameteratsu is an MS based technique.


----------



## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Mortalis said:


> Ameteratsu is an MS based technique.


The point was about just finishing certain people off instead of going blind torturing them.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Though, if Kisame and Itachi did admit that the best scenario is that both they and Jiraiya die, I suppose they would have factored Itachi's MS and abilities in the equation.

Personally, there's not much we can go on Itachi, even with what's shown so far.


----------



## Hamaru (Mar 7, 2007)

> Non-stop burning fire as hot as the sun.
> 
> His skeleton won't melt, but the healing factor will be damn hard-pressed to regenerate new cells in the midst of such heat.



The flames will still stop in due time. Pluss Wolverine wont just sit there like a idiot. Thats like me saying Wolverine could just walk up to Itachi and cut his head off.


----------



## Hale (Mar 7, 2007)

> Though, if Kisame and Itachi did admit that the best scenario is that both they and Jiraiya die, I suppose they would have factored Itachi's MS and abilities in the equation.


 This is highly debatable and what was actually said changes by translation group in 2/3 i've read they simply state that jraiya is strong, but every strong man has their weakness and i think hidan could take wolverine... even in all his jobberness he can't live without a heart


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 7, 2007)

Hale said:


> This is highly debatable and what was actually said changes by translation group in 2/3 i've read they simply state that jraiya is strong, but every strong man has their weakness and i think hidan could take wolverine... even in all his jobberness he can't live without a heart



Er, actually he can apparently.  At least he didn't seem to have a heart after Nitro incinerated him.  Just a skeleton, and he was back on his feet a few minutes later.

That's the bar for current Wolverine.


----------



## Hale (Mar 7, 2007)

> Er, actually he can apparently. At least he didn't seem to have a heart after Nitro incinerated him. Just a skeleton, and he was back on his feet a few minutes later.
> 
> That's the bar for current Wolverine.


Now... are we sure that wasn't plot induced jobbering?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

Hale said:


> This is highly debatable and what was actually said changes by translation group in 2/3 i've read they simply state that jraiya is strong, but every strong man has their weakness and i think hidan could take wolverine... even in all his jobberness he can't live without a heart



He was burnt down to his very bones. He regenerated fully from that.

Rip out his heart, he'll make another one.



Hale said:


> Now... are we sure that wasn't plot induced jobbering?



Frankly, I blame two things.

First are the writers, for their take on Wolverine's healing factor.

Second, I blame House of M and Wanda. Arguably the only diegetic explanation for Wolverine's regen factor.


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 7, 2007)

No. Wolverine has consistently survived with major organ damage. When Juggernaut asked the X-Men to stop Black Tom Cassidy, Wolverine was impaled in the heart with a metal pipe. Juggernaut promptly yanked it out of his chest, and Wolverine immediately got back up. Wolverine has also taken multiple bullets to the chest, which considering his adamantium skeleton would cause the bullets to richochet around and shred his internal organs. He simply walks right through and heals at the same time. The only way to really stop his healing is to cause damage, and then shove something in there so that the damage can't be healed up.


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 7, 2007)

Hale said:


> Now... are we sure that wasn't plot induced jobbering?



Because 4 issues later they dedicated an entire issue to "I'm Wolverine, I don't die unless I want to."  It's canon and the obvious intent of the writing team that Wolverine can do this.  There's some room for debate that if you completely destroy all of his biological material he can't regenerate, however no one in Naruto can get through Adamantium, so he's safe there.

Why it changed?  Eh, dunno.  Wanda's as good an excuse as any.  In theory it could have always been like this and Wolverine just assumed that if he got hurt badly enough he wouldn't live through it.  Who knows?


----------



## Havoc (Mar 7, 2007)

It's not like Wolverines the deciding factor here.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Mar 7, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Because 4 issues later they dedicated an entire issue to "I'm Wolverine, I don't die unless I want to."  It's canon and the obvious intent of the writing team that Wolverine can do this.  There's some room for debate that if you completely destroy all of his biological material he can't regenerate, however no one in Naruto can get through Adamantium, so he's safe there.
> 
> Why it changed?  Eh, dunno.  Wanda's as good an excuse as any.  In theory it could have always been like this and Wolverine just assumed that if he got hurt badly enough he wouldn't live through it.  Who knows?



Though, his healing factor was never shown to be this powerful, save perhaps when he was feral.

In the Days of Futures Past, Wolverine was killed when he was incinerated down to his bones.

Of course, that was then, and this is now. Especially now.



Havoc said:


> It's not like Wolverines the deciding factor here.



Indeed.

Your sig, for instance!


----------



## EvilMoogle (Mar 7, 2007)

Comic Book Guy said:


> Though, his healing factor was never shown to be this powerful, save perhaps when he was feral.


True enough.  For that matter current-616 Wolverine's healing seems to be quite a bit ahead of the Wolverine's that have been encountered in Exiles, so that suggests that something signifigant is different in 616 (*coughWandacough*).




Comic Book Guy said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Your sig, for instance!



Hmm...  Here's an interesting take on it.  Multiple Man with 15 years of prep time vs. the Akatsuki.  I think it would be a fight.

(Yes, I know Multiple Man's in X-Factor and not on any of the X-Men teams)
(Yes I also know that Multiple Man isn't technically even a mutant)


----------



## Darklyre (Mar 7, 2007)

Technically, if they were in an enclosed area, Multiple Man could win the way he did against the Hydra base.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Mar 7, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> The flames will still stop in due time. Pluss Wolverine wont just sit there like a idiot. Thats like me saying Wolverine could just walk up to Itachi and cut his head off.



Won't be easy to move if you have no muscles

Anyway taking out Wolverine's heart will only delay him coming back. best way of stopping him is to put him in a position where he's consistently being hurt really badly


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## Vynjira (Mar 7, 2007)

Gai said:


> Won't be easy to move if you have no muscles


That never bothered Juggernaut.. ^^;


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## Hale (Mar 8, 2007)

Hmm so what happens if hidan uses his jutsu and decapitates himself?


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## Havoc (Mar 8, 2007)

Hale said:


> Hmm so what happens if hidan uses his jutsu and decapitates himself?



I'm a little confused, would this be an offensive move?


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## Marsala (Mar 8, 2007)

Hale said:


> Hmm so what happens if hidan uses his jutsu and decapitates himself?



Wolverine's head will be severed (except for the adamantium neck) and it will then almost instantly heal.

Hidan could keep Wolverine dead indefinitely if Hidan stabbed his heart and left the stake there, as long as he stayed in the circle and wasn't interfered with.


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## Vynjira (Mar 8, 2007)

Wolverine fuses with Captain America and Multiple Man, Discuss..


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## Havoc (Mar 8, 2007)

X-men recruit Squirrel Girl, discuss.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Mar 8, 2007)

Vynjira said:


> That never bothered Juggernaut.. ^^;



That's because he sleeps with She Hulk

And Cytorrak

Mainly the first one though



Vynjira said:


> Wolverine fuses with Captain America and Multiple Man, Discuss..



Squirrel Girl laughs


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 8, 2007)

Havoc said:


> X-men recruit Squirrel Girl, discuss.



She's a member of the Great Lakes X-men!  Er, are they still calling themselves that?

Great Lakes X-men vs. the Akatsuki, that'd be interesting.

Mr. Immortal vs. Itachi would be classic!

Squirrel Girl vs. Kakuzu would be fun too.  Not sure how she'd win but she'd manage somehow.


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## Havoc (Mar 8, 2007)

Great Lakes Avengers.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Mar 8, 2007)

There are more Avengers team than people Wolverine has slept with


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## EvilMoogle (Mar 8, 2007)

Havoc said:


> Great Lakes Avengers.



They were the Great Lakes Avengers but the Avengers asked them to stop using that name.  Then they realized they were all (at the time) Mutants so they became the Great Lakes X-Men.

According to Wiki they're now using the name "Great Lakes Champions"


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## Darklyre (Mar 8, 2007)

Even if you decapitate Wolverine, if you don't immediately separate the head from the body and take it a distance away, he'll reheal the wound.


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## Fenix (Mar 8, 2007)

This thread is 15 pages long. Discuss


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## mystictrunks (Mar 8, 2007)

April Vacation said:


> This thread is 15 pages long. Discuss



Scans or I don't believe you


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## Fenix (Mar 8, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Scans or I don't believe you



Hmm





Your move now, hotshot!


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## Iris (Mar 8, 2007)

We better end this now, Akatsuki dies a horrible death...discuss? lol.


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## Vynjira (Mar 8, 2007)

"Game Over, User Wins!" - System


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## ~Shin~ (Mar 8, 2007)

Why is this thread still alive?


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