# Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Steven Seagull vs. Aldo, Edgar, GSP, Jones (MMA)



## Kuya (Oct 13, 2011)

Action star martial artists vs. MMA champs.

4v4 street brawl. Who wins. All prime.


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## martryn (Oct 13, 2011)

MMA fighters stomp.  

Bruce Lee:  5'7" and barely 135 lbs.  Not a lot of real fighting experience. 
Jackie Chan:  5'8" and 160 lbs.  Not a lot of real fighting experience. 
Jet Li:  5'6" and 145 lbs.  Got beat up by a table during tsunami.  A table. 
Stephen Seagall:  6'4" and 265 lbs.  Fat.  At least he's got some fighting experience.

vs. 

Jose Aldo:  5'7" and 145 lbs.  #1 ranked featherweight in the world.  Kicks ass for real.  Nothing choreographed, nothing fake. 
Frankie Edgar:  5'6" and 155 lbs.  #1 ranked lightweight in the world.  Kicks ass for real.  Nothing choreographed, nothing fake. 
GSP:  5'10" and 170 lbs.  #1 ranked welterweight in the world.  Kicks ass for real.  Nothing choreographed, nothing fake. 
Jon Jones:  6'4" and 205 lbs.  #1 ranked light heavyweight in the world.  Kicks ass for real.  Nothing choreographed, nothing fake. 

You put 4 of the top 10 best fighters, pound for pound, vs. four actors who have been pretty good in the past at fake martial arts, acrobatics, and dancing.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 13, 2011)

are we using movie feats ?


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 13, 2011)

The ones who have actual feats outside movies win.


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## Gomu (Oct 13, 2011)

Bruce Lee wins then. Even outside movies he was in tournaments using his one-inch punch and kicking so fast cameras could barely keep up, causing pain to people even though they had lots of padding.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 13, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Bruce Lee wins then. Even outside movies he was in tournaments using his one-inch punch and kicking so fast cameras could barely keep up, causing pain to people even though they had lots of padding.



god damnit another lee wanker



also why is Sagal here? he's as big a liar as Frank Dux


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 13, 2011)

to be fair , the anti lee fans don't have much proof either just saying.


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## Gomu (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm not a Lee wanker, and I did research. I still say Lee wins this. And choreographed, what the fuck are you saying, Jackie Chan did all his own stunts just like Bruce Lee did, Steven Seagall and Jet Li didn't however, and let others do their stunts for them. A table beat him up during a tsunami, you mean a powerful storm fucked him up using a table, hell yeah I'm betting even ear biting fucking Mike Tyson would of cried like a bitch after that happened.


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## Kuya (Oct 13, 2011)

Forgot to say no wrestling


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 13, 2011)

Gomu said:


> I'm not a Lee wanker, and I did research. I still say Lee wins this. And choreographed, what the fuck are you saying, Jackie Chan did all his own stunts just like Bruce Lee did, Steven Seagall and Jet Li didn't however, and let others do their stunts for them. A table beat him up during a tsunami, you mean a powerful storm fucked him up using a table, hell yeah I'm betting even ear biting fucking Mike Tyson would of cried like a bitch after that happened.



Bruce Lee vs Joe mister 'I fought half blind until I almost killed myself against Ali" Frazier..who wins


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## The Adept (Oct 13, 2011)

Wasn't Bruce in a street gang when he was young?


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## Gomu (Oct 13, 2011)

The Adept said:


> Wasn't Bruce in a street gang when he was young?



Yep. Wanted to kick ass and show off his Gong Fu to the other bitches. He has always been an extremist when it comes to martial arts.


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## Plague (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm voting for Team Lee too since this is them in their primes.


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## hojou (Oct 14, 2011)

Lee stomps. Followed by jackie.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 14, 2011)

The Adept said:


> Wasn't Bruce in a street gang when he was young?



unquantifiable and never properly documented documented


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## Hunter (Oct 14, 2011)

Four actors against four fighter who have done nothing but fought, taken punches and fought people who are much stronger and skilled than those four actors.

Choreographed fights are just that. Choreographed. The actors know which punch or kick the actor will throw. In a no holds barred fight, you don't know what will come. They have speed which won't mean much when these guys took punches all their lives, they will block shrug off a few punches and go in for the kill. Even the all mighty Lee would get destroyed in a ring against an amateur MMA fighter who can take hits. I guarantee it.


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## Gomu (Oct 14, 2011)

Hunter said:


> Four actors against four fighter who have done nothing but fought, taken punches and fought people who are much stronger and skilled than those four actors.
> 
> Choreographed fights are just that. Choreographed. The actors know which punch or kick the actor will throw. In a no holds barred fight, you don't know what will come. They have speed which won't mean much when these guys took punches all their lives, they will block shrug off a few punches and go in for the kill. Even the all mighty Lee would get destroyed in a ring against an amateur MMA fighter who can take hits. I guarantee it.



...Chan and Lee don't really choreograph hits, they do their own larger stunts its usually them trying to show their ability to fight. For example, Jackie Chan has been in many life threatening accidents.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA1ZwbXHGyA[/YOUTUBE]

Both Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee actually fought. When he gained the scars he did, he really did, if he got slashed by a sword, he really did, if he got kicked in the balls, he really did.


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## Pseudo (Oct 14, 2011)

Jet Li can defy the laws of physics. Team one stomps!


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## Hunter (Oct 14, 2011)

Gomu said:


> ...Chan and Lee don't really choreograph hits, they do their own larger stunts its usually them trying to show their ability to fight. For example, Jackie Chan has been in many life threatening accidents.



Choreography and stunts are entirely two different things in filming. I'll explain.
Choreography is explaining the sequence of the fight to the two actors fighting.
You must explain which punch they will throw, kick, reaction, expression, etc.
It works better for the film crew, the camera crew, and thanks to that they will be able to know which sequence is coming up and capture the fight. This works because it's a movie. Not a cage match like the MMA fighters fight in where there is no choreography and you will need to guess and keep your eyes open on what your opponent will do next unlike choreographed fights where you know what to expect and so on.

Stunts are taking hits, falling, running into,and among other things. I know Jackie does his own and I give him props for that but it still won't protect him from a cage fighter who fights and trains for a living and go in for the kill once he is able to see an opportunity.


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

Team 1 speedblitz, aside from Segal.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 14, 2011)

How does Team1 speedblitz?This is'nt some fictional fight with superhumans, give feats or leave. In a fight we need feats to compare especially against those who make a career out of fighting. Li was a wushu champion at 17 or so but he then went into acting, how good he was is hard to say. Lee is also unknown, Chan has no feats and he mostly does comedy style fights since 30+ years. What has Steven done?

No one on team 1 has any actual feats.


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## Cirno (Oct 14, 2011)

GSP by decision.


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## skiboydoggy (Oct 14, 2011)

In a ring, the MMA fighters would win, but since this is a street brawl and you put Jackie Chan in...


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## Itαchi (Oct 14, 2011)

Lee solos. .


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

skiboydoggy said:


> In a ring, the MMA fighters would win, but since this is a street brawl and you put Jackie Chan in...



This , this right here. You put Jackie in an urban area the MMA fighters can't touch him ....if there is a small bench or piece of rope, or ladder near by he solos.


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> *How does Team1 speedblitz?This is'nt some fictional fight with superhumans*, give feats or leave. In a fight we need feats to compare especially against those who make a career out of fighting. Li was a wushu champion at 17 or so but he then went into acting, how good he was is hard to say. Lee is also unknown, Chan has no feats and he mostly does comedy style fights since 30+ years. What has Steven done?
> 
> No one on team 1 has any actual feats.



This leads me to believe you never been in a real fight. Getting speedblitz is entirely possible. Maybe not to the degree of an anime, but entirely possible. 

Feats are kind of useless in this fight because nobody has any of note. The MMA guys just fight other MMA guys in the ring. Thats not really a feat. Ranking #1 in a sport is not really a feat either. If you have footage of them showing out of the ordinary abilities then show some. As far as I have seen they just fight people who fight like them, and they either get lucky, or outmatch them in size.

If this fight was to happen the outcome would be determined by knowledge. Team one has vastly superior knowledge of martial arts than the brutes in the arena. Its the smarter fighter who wins, not the biggest.


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## Cirno (Oct 14, 2011)

Superrazien said:
			
		

> knowledge of martial arts >>> being absolute monster in martial arts





I've been training my whole life for nothing. Apparentaly a complete amateur with vast knowledge of martial arts can kill me in seconds somehow. I feel defeated.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 14, 2011)

This leads me to believe you can't debate properly, how does team 1 have more knowledge than people who make a career out of fighting?What proof do you have team one is faster?Winning actual fights against other pros is not a feat?Being ranked number 1 in such a sport is not a feat?



> If this fight was to happen the outcome would be *determined by knowledge*. Team one has vastly superior knowledge of martial arts t*han the brutes in the arena. Its the smarter fighter who wins, not the biggest*



And no one says fights are one by being bigger always, people who have actual experience against other pros don't have knowledge on how to guard or attack or handle being in certain holds/positions better?People who have actual experience don't have knowledge?You made the claim they were smarter and faster, you give the proof.

Li has not fought since 17 to my knowledge
Bruce has beaten whom in an actual fight?
What has Seagal done?
What has Chan done?

There is so much wrong with your post, you might as well say because people are good at basketball in high school means they'll be good in the NBA. The movie side is basically that compared to actual pros who make a career out of it.


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## Nevermind (Oct 14, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The ones who have actual feats outside movies win.



Tranquil really ended this thread right here.



Superrazien said:


> This leads me to believe you never been in a real fight. Getting speedblitz is entirely possible. Maybe not to the degree of an anime, but entirely possible.



Ok, you wanna explain how? Because everyone here is human with human reaction times. Maybe someone can get the drop on someone, but no one's speed is gonna be so overwhelmingly advantageous that the opponent can't mount a defense which is what a speedblitz is.

Furthermore you haven't really proven why team 1 would speedblitz team 2.


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## Darth Nihilus (Oct 14, 2011)

Does Jackie get a pair of clogging shoes

This is crucial mein square


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 14, 2011)

Jon Jones solos. 

If taken one-by-one he literally could solo.


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## cnorwood (Oct 14, 2011)

i was just going through a bunch of bruce lee vs mike tyson threads the other day and the bruce fans always crack me up




Huey Freeman said:


> to be fair , the anti lee fans don't have much proof either just saying.


I am a FTL planet buster, you have no proof that i am not so it must be true amirite?


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> This leads me to believe you can't debate properly, how does team 1 have more knowledge than people who make a career out of fighting?What proof do you have team one is faster?Winning actual fights against other pros is not a feat?Being ranked number 1 in such a sport is not a feat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you even know what Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Seagull study? If you did then you would know to be respected professionals in there field then they have a vast amount of knowledge. Far more technique is required in there field. What you have from the people in MMA are people that know how to throw decent punches and kicks, but only really excel at ground fighting.

I should rephrase, winning fights is a feat. It's just not a impressive feat. If I went and beat up a bunch of high school kids thats not really an impressive feat. Beating a fighter who fights very similar to how you fight, with the added benefit of rules isn't really an impressive feat when it comes to a street fight. 

Do I really have to prove that Bruce Lee and Jet Li are faster? Have you ever seen a demonstration of there speed? Hell Jet Li was goofing off on Conan O Brien before and broke his desk. Being ranked #1 in a sport is only a good feat if your competing in that sport. Take it to the real world and it means much less. 

Matches like this are hard to prove in general from both sides. The only ones qualified to really judge are the ones who have knowledge and experience on both sides, and judging how much people underestimate Bruce Lee, Jet Li, and Jackie Chan I think its safe to assume none of you have ever studied real Chinese martial arts. 

But I guess going by OBD rules team 2 would win since it hard to prove much on team 1. I mean according to people here on OBD MMA fighters would beat Navy seals (lol). MMA fighters are vastly overrated, far more so than Jet Li, Jack Chan, Bruce Lee, or Seagull.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

Being a fighter by career =/= being a true bred fighters.

There are guys up on the higher the black belt ranking system (i highly doubt there is a MMA fighter above a 2nd degree black belt ) with less fighting experience will tear them apart.

fighting in the octagon does not mean it will translate in a street fight situation.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 14, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> Ok, you wanna explain how? Because everyone here is human with human reaction times. Maybe someone can get the drop on someone, but no one's speed is gonna be so overwhelmingly advantageous that the opponent can't mount a defense which is what a speedblitz is.
> 
> Furthermore you haven't really proven why team 1 would speedblitz team 2.



Every single time a thread like this pops up he goes off on this shit..never seen him succeed either

Also he's apparently taking Sagal as a serious martial artist when even his own damn Ex wife has come out and said he lies his ass off and is a fraud so yeah fairly sure..he has no credibility




Superrazien said:


> Do you even know what Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Seagull study? If you did then you would know to be respected professionals in there field then they have a vast amount of knowledge.



what knowledge? Lying works just as great like how your buddy Sagal claimed to have defeated seven katana wielding Yakuza thugs when in reality all he did was get drunk off his ass and yell at some teen age wannabes?

or y'know Frank Dux I mean he was y'know serious business as far as hollywood was concerned even made a movie about him

guess what? oh..that's right he was full of shit

Jackie Chan trained originally in fucking Chinese Opera while he's expanded his palate the man is and always will be first and foremost a choreographer and performer..he's never ever shied away from this or claimed other wise


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## Shozan (Oct 14, 2011)

Chael Sonnen bitchslap all of them then tell they're wifes to make him a sammich!


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## Ippy (Oct 14, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> Do you even know what Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, and Seagull study? If you did then you would know to be respected professionals in there field then they have a vast amount of knowledge. Far more technique is required in there field. What you have from the people in MMA are people that know how to throw decent punches and kicks, but only really excel at ground fighting.



Bruce Lee wasn't even a high level practitioner of his native art of Wing Tsun, and has absolutely no real pro or amateur fights to speak of.

Jackie Chan was trained by some sort of Chinese opera, and has no formal training to be a competitive fighter.

Jet Li was a master of _forms_, not fighting.

Seagal is a fraud and a joke.  GTFO with that bullshit.



Superrazien said:


> I should rephrase, winning fights is a feat. It's just not a impressive feat.


How is winning a fight, forcing you to display superior strength, speed, skills, heart, and cardio, not an impressive feat?

You're talking out of your ass.



Superrazien said:


> If I went and beat up a bunch of high school kids thats not really an impressive feat.


Red herring.



Superrazien said:


> Beating a fighter who fights very similar to how you fight, with the added benefit of rules isn't really an impressive feat when it comes to a street fight.


You mean a sport where the end result is to KO or break the will of your opponents won't translate well into a street fight?



Superrazien said:


> Do I really have to prove that Bruce Lee and Jet Li are faster?


Yes.

Problem is, you can't.



Superrazien said:


> Have you ever seen a demonstration of there speed? Hell Jet Li was goofing off on Conan O Brien before and broke his desk. Being ranked #1 in a sport is only a good feat if your competing in that sport. Take it to the real world and it means much less.


Desk breaking?  Really?



Superrazien said:


> Matches like this are hard to prove in general from both sides. The only ones qualified to really judge are the ones who have knowledge and experience on both sides, and judging how much people underestimate Bruce Lee, Jet Li, and Jackie Chan I think its safe to assume none of you have ever studied real Chinese martial arts.


Actually, matches like this are impossible to prove on one side, and ridiculously easy to prove on the other.


One needs only to show Edgar/Maynard 2 and 3 to show Edgar's ridiculous heart, perseverance, and chin.

One needs only to show Aldo/Faber to show him completely and totally destroy someone's legs, taking their entire ability to move, generate power, and attempt to grapple.

One needs only to show GSP absolutely dominating all aspects of a fight, from the striking, to the wrestling, to the grappling, neutralizing his opponent's strengths the entire way.

One needs only to show Bones Jones throwing accomplished wrestlers around at will, outstriking the best Muay Thai practitioners in the world, and submitting guys who haven't been submitted in ten years.



Superrazien said:


> But I guess going by OBD rules team 2 would win since it hard to prove much on team 1.


What, you mean we need PROOF around here?

Who'd a thunk it?



Superrazien said:


> I mean according to people here on OBD MMA fighters would beat Navy seals (lol).


Strawman.



Huey Freeman said:


> Being a fighter by career =/= being a true bred fighters.
> 
> There are guys up on the higher the black belt ranking system (i highly doubt there is a MMA fighter above a 2nd degree black belt ) with less fighting experience will tear them apart.
> 
> fighting in the octagon does not mean it will translate in a street fight situation.


I'd love to live in this fantasy land you motherfuckers occupy.

Let me count the ways:


"black belts"... in _what_?  I can assure you that a Shodan Judoka would mop the floor of a 1st-9th degree TKD black belt 9/10 times.  Shit, the average Kyoukushin Kai Karateka would wreck the average *name your karate* dojo any day of the week.  You can't use the term as a sort of blanket statement for each and every single martial art.

Some of the best practitioners of martial arts in the world don't study arts that even HAVE a ranking system.  I'm talking about the wrestlers, boxers, kickboxers, and Thai boxers of the world.

btw... we have already seen these "high level black belt levels" (which I'm assuming you mean the Tae Kwon Dos, Tang Soo Dos, and Shotokans of the world...) in MMA matches, and they got their shit pushed in during the early UFC's by guys who weren't even "black belts" in _anything_.

Looks like someone doesn't know that 99% of high ranking black belts got them for _political _reasons.

Lastly, if there are all of these top level black belts out there (not in BJJ or Judo), why haven't we been seeing any in MMA lately?
You idiots have no fucking clue of what it is you speak.


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

You guys are right there are no feats to prove, as far as OBD goes team 2 wins. Excuse me for doubting the all powerful force of the MMA.


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## Engix (Oct 14, 2011)

Team 1 stomps. I couldnt really care less to learn the truth, so ill let my Fanboy do its work.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

Ippy said:


> Bruce Lee wasn't even a high level practitioner of his native art of Wing Tsun, and has absolutely no real pro or amateur fights to speak of.
> 
> Jackie Chan was trained by some sort of Chinese opera, and has no formal training to be a competitive fighter.
> 
> ...



AH fanboy at his best tell Mr. have you ever thought in your lil brain that the majority of other styles don't compete because I don't know maybe they do Martial Arts because it their way of life and not to act tough or make a quick buck. 

Dumbasses like you honestly believe MMA is strongest form of hand to hand and someone who do MMA for idk 5 years is far greater than some one who take 15 years.

btw I know you were a fanboy when you put the ranking system as a political thing.

I shall repeat apparently you can't understand street fight=/= octagon and also those so called high degree who were in MMA (who do not represent the majority of the style ) were probably a few cases.

As far as this thread goes team 2 win by feats but shut the hell up with your MMA wank kid, if take downs and submission is all that needed to win a street fight every damn person will be jumping that band wagon.

What you fail to realize is that you take a MMA fighter out his element and put him in lets say a kungfu or muay tai or karate tournament he will be embarrassed to no end (this is where you see where that fighter is lacking ) just like if it were vice versa.


MMA is a deadly sport i give you that but its far from being the top MA that it can dominate any other MA easily.


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## cnorwood (Oct 14, 2011)

are the people voting for team one the same people who think that ninjas could actually do bushins, and other jutsus. the same people who think that shaolin monks are top fighters in the world even though 99.9% of their "strength demonstrations"  would never be applicable in a real fight, due to the fact that they will never have enough time to actually focus a certain body part in a real fight. 

well you people need to get off this western idea that asians have some sort of mystical powers, and i have never seen anything from bruce lee that would be applicable in a real fight where you dont have 30 seconds to focus before striking or taking a hit


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

cnorwood said:


> are the people voting for team one the same people who think that ninjas could actually do bushins, and other jutsus. the same people who think that shaolin monks are top fighters in the world even though 99.9% of their "strength demonstrations"  would never be applicable in a real fight, due to the fact that they will never have enough time to actually focus a certain body part in a real fight.
> 
> well you people need to get off this western idea that asians have some sort of mystical powers, and i have never seen anything from bruce lee that would be applicable in a real fight where you dont have 30 seconds to focus before striking or taking a hit



Go fight a Shaolin Monk and let me know how that works out for you buddy.

Oh and for the record none of this has to do with Asians. They just happen to be the majority that practice it. Anyone can learn this stuff. When you do learn it and see first hand then you will know what its all about. Until then just enjoy your ignorance. If I may borrow a quote from the Matrix, "Ignorance is bliss."


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## Gunners (Oct 14, 2011)

> MMA is a deadly sport i give you that but its far from being the top MA that it can dominate any other MA easily.


The M in MMA stands for mixed. What you're saying is fundamentally flawed and I don't really know how to respond to you, it is like trying to argue that a selection of beef is not the best product meat product made from a cow.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

Gunners said:


> The M in MMA stands for mixed. What you're saying is fundamentally flawed and I don't really know how to respond to you, it is like trying to argue that a selection of beef is not the best product meat product made from a cow.





> Mixed martial arts was* originally a sport* that saw people competing with very different styles. However, when it became apparent what was effective and what was not, a new hybrid style emerged, and this is what I mean by ?MMA.? This style may be customized by each fighter, but generally combines boxing, Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
> 
> Advantages:
> 
> ...



educate yourself and don't jump on the band wagon this is no different from JKD.


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## Superrazien (Oct 14, 2011)

^ Your signature brings back memories. Swat Cats FTW!


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## Gunners (Oct 14, 2011)

> educate yourself and don't jump on the band wagon this is no different from JKD.


I have a stupid piece of shit trying to condescend me. 

The parts you put in bold do not contradict what I said. As I said before the M in MMA stands for Mixed. As in there is a mixture as of Martial Arts involved, as such it doesn't make sense to say it isn't a top martial art.

Also lol at the jackass who talked about speedblitzing.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I have a stupid piece of shit *trying* to condescend me.
> 
> The parts you put in bold do not contradict what I said. As I said before the M in MMA stands for Mixed. As in there is a mixture as of Martial Arts involved, as such it doesn't make sense to say it isn't a top martial art.
> 
> Also lol at the jackass who talked about speedblitzing.



Apparently you don't know the difference of tried and did 

And I interpret the original quote different also it is it's own martial art you know the very same martial art Bruce lee created had various martial arts too . 

It's own because it just combine elements from others not essentially copying.


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## Hunter (Oct 14, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:


> they do Martial Arts because it their way of life and not to act tough or make a quick buck.


 Which shows to be ineffective when you're up against a seasoned fighter who fought all of his life and has been shown to be practicing Martial Arts. Think of it this way, who do you think would win, a Monk who trained his entire life or a Judoka Samurai who has been in fights, seen warfare and fought in it many times. If you think the Monk would win, you need to sort some thinking out.



Huey Freeman said:


> Dumbasses like you honestly believe MMA is strongest form of hand to hand and someone who do MMA for idk 5 years is far greater than some one who take 15 years.


 We don't think MMA is the strongest form of hand-to-hand there is, but it certainly one of the most effective due to it teaching striking, throwing, ground and submissions which sadly not a lot of Martial Arts do. Think of it this way, you're comparing actors who have hardly been in any fights of their caliber or equal standing against men who fought other fighters in their caliber, their equal with the same form of discipline. Many MMA fighters came from a background of Martial Arts or fighting. From Boxing, Karate, Judo to even Sambo. MMA combines your Martial Art with other forms such as BJJ and effective striking and polishes it. If you studied Martial Arts for 15 years and not been in a fight where it tested your strength and skill and fight a man who has some Martial Arts background has trained for 5-6 years, has 5-4 years fighting experience against people his caliber let me tell you, that 15 year training won't matter in the end. You don't know what to do when the situation comes. Because you haven't fought nearly as long enough as he has nor you don't know how long will your body hold out.



Huey Freeman said:


> I shall repeat apparently you can't understand street fight=/= octagon and also those so called high degree who were in MMA (who do not represent the majority of the style ) were probably a few cases.


 If you think actual fighting is like what you see in the movies, let me tell you ; you need a reality check. Street fighting and MMA are almost nothing alike, in street fight you mainly see people swinging and it's usually people who no Martial Arts experience where is in the Octagon you're fighting Martial Artists who bring to the table everything they know, fighters who trained for years and they all fought as long as you, tall as you, same weight. In most cases you won't fight a trained man or someone with a Martial Arts background in a street fight.



Huey Freeman said:


> if take downs and submission is all that needed to win a street fight every damn person will be jumping that band wagon.


 You don't get it, do you? Take downs and submissions are almost essential to know in MMA due to that sometimes there will be a person that has a background or experience in BJJ or ground game. So what do you do? Do you pray and hope he won't take you down to the ground where you virtually don't know anything or do you train in his art and study it to find counters and ways to escape and bring him to your domain.



Huey Freeman said:


> What you fail to realize is that you take a MMA fighter out his element and put him in lets say a kungfu or muay tai or karate tournament he will be embarrassed to no end (this is where you see where that fighter is lacking ) just like if it were vice versa.


 Have you seen Gong Fu tournaments, Karate tournaments, and etc? The score is by point mostly. It's mostly who's faster and tag said person for point. Which means, it doesn't matter if you can take a punch, shrug off a kick, or have ground game. Which essentially isn't fighting at all, it's a game of tag. Judo and JJ tournaments are another story, it's see who can throw who, or pin them instead of seeing who can knock out who which in reality is real fighting.




Huey Freeman said:


> MMA is a deadly sport i give you that but its far from being the top MA that it can dominate any other MA easily.


 But it certainly is one of the most effective in combat. What we're trying to tell you Martial Arts fans who believe Bruce and Chan would win is that here we're counting *fighting experience*, acting won't prepare you for a fight against someone who has made a living off of fighting and became a champion of it at that. Martial Arts is only a part of who makes a Mixed Martial Artist. If the OP put Masutatsu Oyama who has done real fighting, who has background knowledge in Judo which is a very effective Martial Art in fighting and has been shown in MMA fights to be effective in taking down a person and set them up for a submission. Like I was saying of OP placed in Oyama against an MMA fighter than it would get interesting depending on the background of the MMA fighter. Another example is who would win if the MMA fighter only knows Karate and Boxing? Oyama right? Why? His Martial Arts? Nope. Fighting experience? Nope. Both is the correct answer, that is of course assuming Oyama has fighting experience. Now, why do we choose Team MMA than team Chan and Lee? Simple. They don't have as near as much fighting experience as team MMA who also have backgrounds in Martial Arts, so it all comes down to durability, experience in fighting, strength, size and weight which Team MMA dominates in that category. Actors are actors, fighters are fighters. You can't presume an actor in the film can beat a seasoned fighter, no matter how good he is on film.


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## Gomu (Oct 14, 2011)

Gunners said:


> I have a stupid piece of shit trying to condescend me.
> 
> The parts you put in bold do not contradict what I said. As I said before the M in MMA stands for Mixed. As in there is a mixture as of Martial Arts involved, as such it doesn't make sense to say it isn't a top martial art.
> 
> Also lol at the jackass who talked about speedblitzing.



OK. What you're saying is that knowing many martial arts works against one fully learned martial art. The factors of Mixed Martial Arts fighting is the most powerful art in that, however, that isn't the case. Martial arts is not really made to delve into many different martial arts, its made to create a core, a prospect of ability and technique melding to create overall power and speed, it isn't made to be mixed as you keep saying.

Just because someone knows more martial arts means nothing, it's kinda like being "the Mario", the jack of all trades yet the master of none. Qualifying this, the aspects of learning different martial arts tricks is effective but learning and mastering one style before moving to so many others isn't really the way proper martial artist actually act. Yes, JKD delves into the "spirit" of MMA, but it isn't MMA, what you utilize is the ability to take up your own style, learning the fundamentals of training yourself, in JKD, if you want to use a dance like flair towards fighting you could, it was all about using your own scale of fighting to be able to match any and every style and use what styles you learned from and improve yourself melding it with your own abilities.

Furthermore, yes, many feats of fighting are from the movies the first team partakes in, but at least two of those people (Lee and Chan), did their own training, their own improvements and their own work towards bettering themselves.

MMA has one fatal flaw in that regard. They can't stop using the basics of what they have learned in combat, they use only what they know when fighting and thus they have strategies, JKD, Wing Chun, and actual martial artist can use a mixture of their own abilities and take what has been pounded into them day after day, and use it without actually thinking, this is because a man that "kicks one thousand times" is better than "a man that uses one thousand kicks". Practicing what has been done since training day allows for you to be a better fighter.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 14, 2011)

Hunter said:


> Which shows to be ineffective when you're up against a seasoned fighter who fought all of his life and has been shown to be practicing Martial Arts. Think of it this way, who do you think would win, a Monk who trained his entire life or a Judoka Samurai who has been in fights, seen warfare and fought in it many times. If you think the Monk would win, you need to sort some thinking out.
> 
> We don't think MMA is the strongest form of hand-to-hand there is, but it certainly one of the most effective due to it teaching striking, throwing, ground and submissions which sadly not a lot of Martial Arts do. Think of it this way, you're comparing actors who have hardly been in any fights of their caliber or equal standing against men who fought other fighters in their caliber, their equal with the same form of discipline. Many MMA fighters came from a background of Martial Arts or fighting. From Boxing, Karate, Judo to even Sambo. MMA combines your Martial Art with other forms such as BJJ and effective striking and polishes it. If you studied Martial Arts for 15 years and not been in a fight where it tested your strength and skill and fight a man who has some Martial Arts background has trained for 5-6 years, has 5-4 years fighting experience against people his caliber let me tell you, that 15 year training won't matter in the end. You don't know what to do when the situation comes. Because you haven't fought nearly as long enough as he has nor you don't know how long will your body hold out.
> 
> ...



the point I am trying to make you are assuming tons of stuff

for example there was a thread with MMA vs Boxing 

I take boxing for 10 years now, Everyone was going take downs and submission gg.
Like Boxers don't know that and don't have their own ways to avoid that (I am speaking of the fighting style in general not the competitive style used).

Like most people don't realize outside the rules the MMA fighter is at a disadvantage as well. 

Like an example with the same boxing sure MMA has takedowns and submissions. Ever seen real dirty boxing? disoriented punches to the ear, ribs, straight kidney shot, leg sweeps, in some cases foot stomp,and even use of elbows . 

There are factors that put MMA just as an equal disadvantage and it comes down to the skill within the fighter not the sport. 

if the fighter has what it take he wins if not he loses simple as that.


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## The Prodigy (Oct 15, 2011)

The fact that this is a street brawl nonetheless only makes me choose team 1 more, as it does go in their favor. Just my opinion though, but here are my reasons. 

Jackie Chan- highly trained in Kung Fu (Wushu) & drunken fist techniques. 

Jet Li- at the age of 12 won gold medal in tournaments with 2nd and 3rd place in their mid 20's. (Though this doesn't mean much, still a feat). "Jet," given to him as a young student, due to his speed and grace when training with the Beijing Wushu team. 

Bruce Lee- in rooftop gangs when he was younger 1v1 challenges. He soon became well known and sure of his ability as a fighter, however. One day lost and soon trained under the legendary Yip Man in Kung Fu (Wing Chun). Vast knowledge of Martial Arts and fighting, later created his own "Jeet Kune DO"; "The way of the intercepting fist". This Martial Art was designed by Lee to emphasize any one personal preference fighting styles in street fighting. After being warned by angered Chinese for Lee's "treason" in teaching other races he accepted the challenge of Wong Jack Man. After his fight, he was dissapointed he was so tired after winning, from then on he trained at an intensity to reach and surpass any limitations and plateaus. It is also a popular opinion that since Lee was so small he couldn't be any threat to a bigger combatant. This is false, Lee in actuality didn't care about size or strength he could not use in a real fight, but only for the power he could deliver behind all his strikes and the speed at which they could be delivered. One last thing to those who say Bruce Lee was only an actor. Bruce, himself has said "I have always been a martial artist by choice, an actor by profession, but above all, am actualizing myself to be an artist of life."

Steven Seagall- Master in Aikido back in Japan and the first to not be originally from Japan to own his own dojo there. Helped train Brazilian mixed martial artists Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida. Silva, who is the reigning UFC Middleweight Champion, credited Seagal with teaching him the kick that knocked out Vitor Belfort in their fight at UFC 126 in February 2011, and Machida also credited him for helping him perfect the crane kick that he used to knock out Randy Couture at UFC 129 2011.


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## I3igAl (Oct 15, 2011)

Everyone here seems to forget that Bruce Lee beat Chuck Norris...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLO1YIWQuXE[/YOUTUBE] 

...and Chuck Norris can move the world by just doing push ups. 


Also noone answered the speedblitz yet. Bruce Lee should be fatser than light since people can't perseive his movements. Jet Li has "Jet" in his name so she should be high supersonic or even hypersonic. Also Aldo, Edgar, Jones-what kind of names are that? And GSP isn't even a name at all.

Jackie Chan can use the environment, so he is nearly unbeatable in combat. Since he does all his stunts by himself, he can beat them up with a ladder. His TLC skills should be at least pro wrestlerlevel and everyone knows, that John Cena the greatest wrestler of all time could solo the MMA.

Steven Seagull is a none factor. However if Steven Seagal was in this match he could solo with an icy stare. 


Also Shaolin shure are the most powerful beings on the planet. They tank spears which hit them with the power of car engines. Their durability is much too high for an MMA punch. And their power is insane they will just pierce their through an MMA-guy's chest for real. The only fighters, who can beat Shaolin are ninja's with their jutsu, since noone not even Bruce Lee can counter the Sharingarn. /thread


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## Lishenron (Oct 15, 2011)

not going to lie, i lol'd^


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 15, 2011)

Did someone claim boxing has a counter for submission holds?No, boxers are not used to going up against submission holds or having to train to counter being put into a submission hold. The stats of the Boxer can help but they are not trained to handle ground action so once it goes ground 9/10 times it's over. Let's get something clear:

No one is insulting martial arts, MMA relies on those forms but it combines aspects from multiple styles for an overall more all rounded style of strikes and grapples. Being trained just to throw punches and kicks is'nt good enough, it's rigid and full of weaknesses. Now it still comes down to the stats, quick thinking and adaptability of a fighter but it's obvious who has more to work with.


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LZVDVEKRrI[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvKRyTSr5Mo[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP6fUrqbBTA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mMtHqXyYc[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJuQP0hO6s4&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Did someone claim boxing has a counter for submission holds?No, boxers are not used to going up against submission holds or having to train to counter being put into a submission hold. The stats of the Boxer can help but they are not trained to handle ground action so once it goes ground 9/10 times it's over. Let's get something clear:
> 
> No one is insulting martial arts, MMA relies on those forms but it combines aspects from multiple styles for an overall more all rounded style of strikes and grapples. Being trained just to throw punches and kicks is'nt good enough, it's rigid and full of weaknesses. Now it still comes down to the stats, quick thinking and adaptability of a fighter but it's obvious who has more to work with.
> 
> ...


Notice all those vids are *not* a street fight and using MMA rules  like someone said just because it worked one person means it will work another.


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## Cirno (Oct 15, 2011)

I don't know why some people have a delusion that takedowns won't work in a street fight. TD's actually work surprisingly well in street fight - a good throw or trip to asphalt may very well end the whole fight. Oh, and closing the distance isn't rocket science or anything.. keep your hands up and the other guy is most likely screwed. It's common sense that being on the top is superior position even if there are no rules at all.

I know that using almost all self-defence magic tricks are nigh-impossible to perform when the other tries to punch your head off, so the fight wouldn't be SO much different than regular MMA match. I admit that there is possibility of those eye gouges and other stuff, but they arent that likely. Simple techniques are usually the most effective - punches and td's.

And I'm not saying that MMA practitioners are unbeatable or anything like that. I'm saying that they usually have more advantages than their opponents, because they are well rounded. Takedown defence just is extremely important if your opponent have even average takedowns, I can tell that much.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Super just get the fuck out of this thread before you make yourself look retarded

also: what the hell is this crap about Take downs and MMA's having trouble in street fights? what the fuck? some of the moves they do on the mats following a take down would split your opponents god damn skull open on concrete

fuck this shit one of these guys grabs that lying piece of shit Sagal and does that famous Bob Sapp six time PileDriver fiasco..and turns his bloated quad chinned head into red mist on the street


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Super just get the fuck out of this thread before you make yourself look retarded
> 
> also: what the hell is this crap about Take downs and MMA's having trouble in street fights? what the fuck? some of the moves they do on the mats following a take down would split your opponents god damn skull open on concrete
> 
> fuck this shit one of these guys grabs that lying piece of shit Sagal and does that famous Bob Sapp six time PileDriver fiasco..and turns his bloated quad chinned head into red mist on the street


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## Violent by Design (Oct 15, 2011)

lol, i love the argument that MMA doesn't work in a street fighting scenario (which makes no sense, considering MMA used to be *no holds barred* and in some parts of the world still is), but the team of fucking *actors* who arent even fighters are going to win.


whats next, Kevin Sorbo is going to rip off Fedor's head?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

hey man I'm just trying to do you a favor, aside from martial art threads you seem like an okay guy replies like the above aren't helping your case but if you wanna get eaten alive by Ippy in an MA be my guest

although you should probably get on with..y'know countering some stuff


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## Guru (Oct 15, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> lol, i love the argument that MMA doesn't work in a street fighting scenario (which makes no sense, considering MMA used to be *no holds barred* and in some parts of the world still is), but the team of fucking *actors* who arent even fighters are going to win.
> 
> 
> whats next, Kevin Sorbo is going to rip off Fedor's head?



MMA does come from Vale Tudo but they're no the same thing. 

And you're ignorant if you think they're only actors. By your logic GSP can't fight because he's acted in films. He fights in the UFC, the mma equivalent to the tournaments that Li, Chan and Lee would have been in, only, none of the MMA fighters have anything like the discipline, or the ammount of training that the tradition fighters have. 

If you throw in Micheal Jai White with the kung fu guys then they dominate.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 15, 2011)

Guru said:


> MMA does come from Vale Tudo but they're no the same thing.


 Yes, MMA and Vale Tudo are the same thing. They were synonyms for quite a few years. That is why certain no hold barred matches count toward MMA records. 



> And you're ignorant if you think they're only actors.


 They are not only actors, they are obviously martial artist. However, I don't have to *think* whether they are fighters or not, I know they are not. If they are, they are not even professional. 



> By your logic GSP can't fight because he's acted in films.


If you could quote me, could you show me what my "logic" is? I never stated that a person who has acted cannot fight, nor did I use that as a clutch for why Jackie Chan and them would lose. I pointed out that they were actors for insult, they would lose because they are not fighters (this was my main point). Jackie Chan himself, even says he isn't and never was a fighter. Every one else were not fighters at a professional level. 




> He fights in the UFC, the mma equivalent to the tournaments that Li, Chan and Lee would have been in,


 I don't understand this. You're saying something is equivalent to something that doesn't exist? I don't understand what you mean. There were "equivalents" to what MMA is back then, and none of the people on Team 1 competed in them. 

Jackie Chan doesn't even like MMA because it is too violent, he is not a fighter. He does martial arts for show, exercise and spirituality. So no, he would not be in the "UFC" equivalent - what ever that really means.

Bruce Lee never even entered amateur competitions, so why would I assume he would enter the professional equivalent? Why didn't he enter Shoot fighting organizations? Have a few celebrity boxing fights? Record any of his street tuggles? 

Jet Li is in the same boat as Jackie Chan. Prize fighting has been around for centuries, and has been paying big money for about a 100 years. People do not even make a lot of money in the UFC today, there is no sense in pretending that these guys had no where to fight. Jet Li did not even practice combat Wu-Shu, he primarily focused on exhibition. 


And even if all these men were in their "equivalents", why would that help their argument at all (aside from the fact that we would know how good or bad these guys would be). Their styles would still obviously be outdated. MMA is a rapidly changing sport, people who are fighting styles and trends from 5 years ago cannot even compete anymore. Why would a person from the 60s or 70s do any better? 

Martial Arts and (hand to hand) fighting in general has advance more in the past 10 years than the last 100 years, and that's being extremely generous. 






> only, none of the MMA fighters have anything like the discipline, or the ammount of training that the tradition fighters have.


This is absolutely baseless. 

How hard someone trains or how well someone is disciplined is up to an individual, and that is something that is not decided by fighting style (and MMA isn't even a fighting style, so how could you generalize them that MMA fighters would be less disciplined?).

Even if we were to make claims, logic would not side that the actor team would be "better trained". That is absurd, Team 2's *JOB* is too fight. They train hard every day, because it is how they feed themselves and their families. If we were to make baseless assumptions, then taking that into account, I would make the educated guess that an MMA fighter trains harder and more often than men who do not really care about fighting (which is basically everyone here except for Bruce Lee, and obviously he did not care that much). 



> If you throw in Micheal Jai White with the kung fu guys then they dominate.



It would be 5 vs 4, so that isn't saying much if you weren't kidding.

 They would still lose.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

Lkonog said:


> I don't know why some people have a delusion that takedowns won't work in a street fight. TD's actually work surprisingly well in street fight - a good throw or trip to asphalt may very well end the whole fight. Oh, and closing the distance isn't rocket science or anything.. keep your hands up and the other guy is most likely screwed. It's common sense that being on the top is superior position even if there are no rules at all.
> 
> I know that using almost all self-defence magic tricks are nigh-impossible to perform when the other tries to punch your head off, so the fight wouldn't be SO much different than regular MMA match. I admit that there is possibility of those eye gouges and other stuff, but they arent that likely. Simple techniques are usually the most effective - punches and td's.
> 
> And I'm not saying that MMA practitioners are unbeatable or anything like that. I'm saying that they usually have more advantages than their opponents, because they are well rounded. Takedown defence just is extremely important if your opponent have even average takedowns, I can tell that much.


Yeah TD's is all you need to win a street fight

/sarcasm

Jesus you would think other MA's don't have defences against such a thing.

what those guys just going to sit back and watch you do that.

If you don't understand the difference of fighting with no rules vs with rules then leave this thread it's that simple

Also they being well round does not give them an advantage no sir. They have more options yes, but if they go up against a guy who power through his weak ass defences against strikes then what good would that do.

If the MMA goes up against a very good striking fighter and he does not put the fight on the ground he is getting wreck.

If he goes up against a jui jitsu fighter or wrestler and the fight goes on the ground he is going to get wreck. 

He is as much as a disadvantage as any other fighter because he is well rounded and not a master of any.

this is nothing to do with this particular fight because Team 1 lose with lack of feats. 

Also whoever said MMA use to be no holds bar , if you honestly believe fighting another MMA fighter in a street fight or beating one fighter with a different style = MMA can take on anybody then you have no idea how fighting works. Its more of the fighter and not the style its that simple.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> hey man I'm just trying to do you a favor, aside from martial art threads you seem like an okay guy replies like the above aren't helping your case but if you wanna get eaten alive by Ippy in an MA be my guest
> 
> although you should probably get on with..y'know countering some stuff



I said that team 1 would lose due to lack of feats. This is really just something that is hard to prove. 

Also take note that aside from Bruce Lee (cause he is dead), everyone on team 1 is old now, and no they are not fighters they are martial artists. However you don't have to be a fighter to be good at fighting.

Since I study many of the arts team 1 practices I kind of take offense when I hear how badly some MMA guy would whoop them, only because I have kicked MMA peoples asses and I am still a beginner. I am just drawing from my own experiences, which I believe is all you can really do in a fight like this.



> I don't know why some people have a delusion that takedowns won't work in a street fight. TD's actually work surprisingly well in street fight - a good throw or trip to asphalt may very well end the whole fight. Oh, and closing the distance isn't rocket science or anything.. keep your hands up and the other guy is most likely screwed. It's common sense that being on the top is superior position even if there are no rules at all.
> 
> I know that using almost all self-defence magic tricks are nigh-impossible to perform when the other tries to punch your head off, so the fight wouldn't be SO much different than regular MMA match. I admit that there is possibility of those eye gouges and other stuff, but they arent that likely. Simple techniques are usually the most effective - punches and td's.
> 
> And I'm not saying that MMA practitioners are unbeatable or anything like that. I'm saying that they usually have more advantages than their opponents, because they are well rounded. Takedown defence just is extremely important if your opponent have even average takedowns, I can tell that much.



Its not that take downs don't work, its just that it is highly impractical. I doubt any MMA fighter would ever try to go to the ground in a street fight. Street fights are dirty, there are no rules. You could have Fedor fighting some guy in a bar, he takes him to the ground, and then the guys 250 lbs buddy runs over and stomps the fuck out of Fedors head, then gets jumped by his other buddies. Or gets beer bottles thrown at him, ect.. 

It doesn't matter if your the best ground fighter in the world, while ground fighting your attention is focused on one person, and you leave yourself open to a attack from somebody else.

Kung Fu practitioners do a whole bunch of fancy flips and flying kicks, but they know its highly impractical in a real fight. I would imagine it is the same for MMA fighters with ground fighting. Its cool and entertaining but not practical.


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## Gomu (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> I said that team 1 would lose due to lack of feats. This is really just something that is hard to prove.
> 
> Also take note that aside from Bruce Lee (cause he is dead), everyone on team 1 is old now, and no they are not fighters they are martial artists. However you don't have to be a fighter to be good a fighting.
> 
> Since I study many of the arts team 1 practices I kind of take offense when I hear how badly some MMA guy would whoop them, only because I have kicked MMA peoples asses and I am still a beginner. I am just drawing from my own experiences, which I believe is all you can really do in a fight like this.



Ah, so you mean to tell me that a sports event that has various rules that try its best not to get people killed (including factors like kicking the balls, biting, using weapons, and things like that), can beat people who have learned to use all these things against opponents, use what needs to be done to attack and only learn what fundamentally needs to be learned to do things. 

Take-downs, I'm pretty sure a lot of martial arts outside of MMA, have the ability to also use these take-downs. Again, I keep saying this but no-one is listening, the people in MMA use what can be called a Jack-of-all trades system, they learn things from respective martial arts focusing on usual take-downs or striking attacks. This doesn't mean they know the full embodiment of that martial arts, they learn those martial arts from actual masters but the masters don't teach them everything. They also all have strategies against their opponents that can be used against them, this is why they create and use each fighter as if it is a rock-scissors-paper mentality.

Most of these fighters are also in their prime fighting ability. Jackie Chan, as an example is 50+ years old. He is still doing his own stunts and participating in training. MMA fighters usually last till what their late 30's early 40's. Lets be serious here, the factors of this fight are all about what each fighter can do, Jackie Chan does whatever comes naturally to him in a specific environment, and Bruce Lee focuses on anything that works as well. They both fight to win, and can destroy opponents while in their primes, due to factors of both experience and skill.

It's bullshit to say that they have no knowledge of fighting, when the "Octagon" is a place that reinforces use of rules.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Ah, so you mean to tell me that a sports event that has various rules that try its best not to get people killed (including factors like kicking the balls, biting, using weapons, and things like that), can beat people who have learned to use all these things against opponents, use what needs to be done to attack and only learn what fundamentally needs to be learned to do things.
> 
> Take-downs, I'm pretty sure a lot of martial arts outside of MMA, have the ability to also use these take-downs. Again, I keep saying this but no-one is listening, the people in MMA use what can be called a Jack-of-all trades system, they learn things from respective martial arts focusing on usual take-downs or striking attacks. This doesn't mean they know the full embodiment of that martial arts, they learn those martial arts from actual masters but the masters don't teach them everything. They also all have strategies against their opponents that can be used against them, this is why they create and use each fighter as if it is a rock-scissors-paper mentality.
> 
> ...




People don't understand that very that MMA is just the fundamentals of the Martial Arts it comprise of.

They know boxing yes, can they defend and block against a prime season boxer ?Hell to the no, they will get overpowered pretty fast . 

And the same with the rest of stuff. ALso in the octagon the fighters already know their opponents weakness and strength which like you said in this post they strategize toward to.

In a street fight they going in blind basically.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Ah, so you mean to tell me that a sports event that has various rules that try its best not to get people killed (including factors like kicking the balls, biting, using weapons, and things like that), can beat people who have learned to use all these things against opponents, use what needs to be done to attack and only learn what fundamentally needs to be learned to do things.
> 
> Take-downs, I'm pretty sure a lot of martial arts outside of MMA, have the ability to also use these take-downs. Again, I keep saying this but no-one is listening, the people in MMA use what can be called a Jack-of-all trades system, they learn things from respective martial arts focusing on usual take-downs or striking attacks. This doesn't mean they know the full embodiment of that martial arts, they learn those martial arts from actual masters but the masters don't teach them everything. They also all have strategies against their opponents that can be used against them, this is why they create and use each fighter as if it is a rock-scissors-paper mentality.
> 
> ...



Yes I think a sport is a sport and will ultimately effect your performance in an actual fight. Look at it this way do you think a average MMA fighter would stance a chance against a Gladiator even if he had no weapons? Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Bruce Lee are not fighters, nor are they killers. But just about every move in there martial art is designed to kill or render a body part useless. You could easily hurt or kill someone by mistake. I am not knocking MMA fighters, you have to be really tough to do a sport like that. But in the end I believe it is technique and speed that win a fight, and I just can't see someone who only essentially knows basics, beating somebody who has pretty much mastered there field. Unless its American style Karate, cause thats just a joke.

MMA fighters just train there bodies pretty much. Martial arts is far more mental that physical, if you ignore the mental part, then you ignore what makes martial arts so powerful. Hence why you see Shaolin Monks taking spears to the neck, hanging rocks from there dicks, hanging themselves, ect..


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

This is fucking overkill.

BJJ white belt and a collegiate wrestler would beat all of these movie star fakes with no trouble at all.


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> Yes I think a sport is a sport and will ultimately effect your performance in an actual fight. Look at it this way do you think a average MMA fighter would stance a chance against a Gladiator even if he had no weapons? Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Bruce Lee are not fighters, nor are they killers. But just about every move in there martial art is designed to kill or render a body part useless. You could easily hurt or kill someone by mistake. I am not knocking MMA fighters, you have to be really tough to do a sport like that. But in the end I believe it is technique and speed that win a fight, and I just can't see someone who only essentially knows basics, beating somebody who has pretty much mastered there field. Unless its American style Karate, cause thats just a joke.
> 
> MMA fighters just train there bodies pretty much. Martial arts is far more mental that physical, if you ignore the mental part, then you ignore what makes martial arts so powerful. Hence why you see Shaolin Monks taking spears to the neck, hanging rocks from there dicks, hanging themselves, ect..



You're a fucking dumb ass. Most traditional martial arts DON'T EVEN FUCKING ALLOW SPARRING. How the fuck does a martial like karate that doesn't even allow guys to train for a real fight have a chance against a guy who is versed in wrestling, judo, bjj, boxing, muay thai, kick boxing, sambo, I could go on... Continuing on, you say MMA is just a sport with rules. Most karate doesn't even allow strikes to the face. MMA allows strikes to the face standing and on the ground, submissions, some even allow soccer kicks on the ground.

My brain is about to explode from the stupidity of the people in this thread who think Jackie Chan could beat Jon Jones...

EDIT: And when did hanging rocks from your dick = being a good fighter? Martial arts from 100s of years ago aren't gonna work against modern MMA, for the sole reason that modern MMA uses a lot of moves that they've probably never even seen before.


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## Gomu (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> You're a fucking dumb ass. Most traditional martial arts DON'T EVEN FUCKING ALLOW SPARRING. How the fuck does a martial like karate that doesn't even allow guys to train for a real fight have a chance against a guy who is versed in wrestling, judo, bjj, boxing, muay thai, kick boxing, sambo, I could go on... Continuing on, you say MMA is just a sport with rules. Most karate doesn't even allow strikes to the face. MMA allows strikes to the face standing and on the ground, submissions, some even allow soccer kicks on the ground.
> 
> My brain is about to explode from the stupidity of the people in this thread who think Jackie Chan could beat Jon Jones...
> 
> EDIT: And when did hanging rocks from your dick = being a good fighter? Martial arts from 100s of years ago aren't gonna work against modern MMA, for the sole reason that modern MMA uses a lot of moves that they've probably never even seen before.



Tell me when you've seen a fucking MMA fighter go through the training that is known about Shaolin Monks and I can tell you that he will pretty much win many battles that don't involve weapons. Martial arts is about the spiritual more than the physical guy, it allows you to have the mental capacity to think through situations or react with the amount of training you have had. 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lygKOJhNKAU[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww2qNFjNZic&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F80tyn52BM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> You're a fucking dumb ass. Most traditional martial arts DON'T EVEN FUCKING ALLOW SPARRING. How the fuck does a martial like karate that doesn't even allow guys to train for a real fight have a chance against a guy who is versed in wrestling, judo, bjj, boxing, muay thai, kick boxing, sambo, I could go on... Continuing on, you say MMA is just a sport with rules. Most karate doesn't even allow strikes to the face. MMA allows strikes to the face standing and on the ground, submissions, some even allow soccer kicks on the ground.
> 
> My brain is about to explode from the stupidity of the people in this thread who think Jackie Chan could beat Jon Jones...
> 
> EDIT: And when did hanging rocks from your dick = being a good fighter? Martial arts from 100s of years ago aren't gonna work against modern MMA, for the sole reason that modern MMA uses a lot of moves that they've probably never even seen before.




Oh so you one of those wankers uneducated in the sport you love because by verse I hope you realize you mean just know a few moves in those respected Martial arts. 

Also best to my knowledge these fighters don't know karate so hows that logic applies here?

So let me break this down to by your logic a gang banger who practice firing his weapon more often than a well train light infantry ranger will be better at shooting his rifle than the ranger?

Your experience means jack when all you fight are other MMA fighters.

Also which martial Art don't allow sparring ?


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Tell me when you've seen a fucking MMA fighter go through the training that is known about Shaolin Monks and I can tell you that he will pretty much win many battles that don't involve weapons. Martial arts is about the spiritual more than the physical guy, it allows you to have the mental capacity to think through situations or react with the amount of training you have had.
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lygKOJhNKAU[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww2qNFjNZic&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> ...


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> THIS ISN'T FUCKING DRAGON BALL Z. You can have all of the mental focus and "chi" in the world, but there's a difference between that and someone actually knowing technique and skill. How is there no mental in MMA? Most mixed martial artists and even boxers will tell you, the fight game is more mental than physical.
> 
> And many MMA fighters have backgrounds in karate. Lyoto Machida, the former UFC LHW champion is a 3rd dan black belt in shotokan, Chuck Liddell (also former UFC LHW champion) is a 5th dan black belt in kenpo and a black belt in koei-kan, and Georges St. Pierre (UFC welterweight champion and #2 P4P fighter in the world) is a 3rd dan black belt in kyokushin karate. There are many more, but those are some of the best examples.
> 
> ...



this is where your logic fails those who go to olympics does not mean they are the best within their fields, when you train for competition is far different from the real/traditional trainings.

this is like NBA basketball vs street basketball. 

MMA fighters are limited to what they can do, they don't do those moves freely its all part of a strategy they are doing. If something changes they won't respond well.

Also don't give me that crap about the more they know makes them better that's a sad piss ass excuse. You master 1 fighting style and become very proficient in it is far greater than barely knowing a few styles to become well rounded.

You take a MMA who has done Muay Thai vs a guy who has been and is still doing Muay thai in the same ring under stikes only , The MMA get wrecks so hard it isn't even funny.

Put a MMA who has jui jitsu background vs a pure bred jui jitsu fighter and he tries to take the match to the ground he is also going to get wreck.

Quality beats quantity any day. 

I take boxing and I do respect MMA fighters but if I ever fought one and he decides to drop his guard momentary to do a take down I will do my best effort to lay him out with a punch to the face since I know he can't deal with that.

Seeing this is a street fight their half ass locks and ground work which is nothing compared to the MA they got it from won't do them much when the other guy fights dirty.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Jesus christ did one of these East wanking fukwads bring up Shaolin training? why, yes, yes they did

you wanna talk Grueling brutal physical exertion go wiki 'thrilla in manila" or Jack Johnsons fight in cuba

fucking one degree heat beating your enemy until you end up in a damn coma..in Johnsons case whooping ass tanking extremes..then going off to bang women

seriously..you think MMA people don't endure hellish training? or that these lack discipline? really? the study of many different techs  and adapting different styles to create a varied "portfolio" for fighting isn't discipline? for fucking real?

the sheer mind numbing blind biased of some of the supporters of the other side is always mind boggling no matter how many times I see it


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 15, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Jesus christ did one of these East wanking fukwads bring up Shaolin training? why, yes, yes they did
> 
> you wanna talk Grueling brutal physical exertion go wiki 'thrilla in manila" or Jack Johnsons fight in cuba
> 
> ...


'


To be fair when it was MMA vs military some of you MMA guys talked about brutal MMA training compared to the military.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:


> '
> 
> 
> To be fair when it was MMA vs military some of you MMA guys talked about brutal MMA training compared to the military.



that seems like an incredibly  ignorant and equally misinformed opinion even if you have zero military experience..you can go watch PBS documentary or that "making the cut show" and know that's bullshit

I mean they may get..better 'physical' training just because they need that more to make a living..but I don't think I'd be caught dead claiming the mental toughness and all that goodness jar heads exceed them in spades..and have too

but bringing up a possible screwed up post hardly validates the madness here


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G61d0feaIg[/YOUTUBE]

Sean Sherk training. He did this stuff everyday for like 10 weeks. So MMA fighters don't endure brutal training? These guys lively hoods absolutely depend on their conditioning and endurance and stamina. Some of the best athletes on the planet. And don't give me that "I'll knock him out before he can take me down" bullcrap. People who need modified rules to win a fight a losers and pussies. You act like every MMA is just some guy who trains a little bit of everything. Like I said before, a lot of these guys come from pure kickboxing, grappling or wrestling backgrounds. You under rate the sport of MMA because your head is up the asses of all these traditional martial arts that have been proven to work very rarely. The new era of martial arts is here, and it's called MMA.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> You're a fucking dumb ass. Most traditional martial arts DON'T EVEN FUCKING ALLOW SPARRING. How the fuck does a martial like karate that doesn't even allow guys to train for a real fight have a chance against a guy who is versed in wrestling, judo, bjj, boxing, muay thai, kick boxing, sambo, I could go on... Continuing on, you say MMA is just a sport with rules. Most karate doesn't even allow strikes to the face. MMA allows strikes to the face standing and on the ground, submissions, some even allow soccer kicks on the ground.
> 
> My brain is about to explode from the stupidity of the people in this thread who think Jackie Chan could beat Jon Jones...
> 
> EDIT: And when did hanging rocks from your dick = being a good fighter? Martial arts from 100s of years ago aren't gonna work against modern MMA, for the sole reason that modern MMA uses a lot of moves that they've probably never even seen before.



Apparently your the one who lacks reading comprehension so don't go around calling other people dumb-asses.


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> Apparently your the one who lacks reading comprehension so don't go around calling other people dumb-asses.



Just calling it like I see it.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

Well get your eyes checked.


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## Gomu (Oct 15, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> that seems like an incredibly  ignorant and equally misinformed opinion even if you have zero military experience..you can go watch PBS documentary or that "making the cut show" and know that's bullshit
> 
> I mean they may get..better 'physical' training just because they need that more to make a living..but I don't think I'd be caught dead claiming the mental toughness and all that goodness jar heads exceed them in spades..and have too
> 
> but bringing up a possible screwed up post hardly validates the madness here



So you're saying what I just showed was bullshit. Stuff like striking your palms (the weakest part of the hands next to the joints) against stone and brick like it's nothing. Striking your head against metal sticks and breaking them and not receiving a mark after, running for miles and miles in posture without dropping or showing fatigue within the morning time, and doing this within all seasons (it's freezing in the fall and winters in Asia).

This has nothing to do with mental toughness, or the mental "game" that you speak of? If you watched my youtube videos you saw just some of what Shaolin Monk's go through during training, the aerial spear method is child's play for them, and is just a spectacle to show power.


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

I don't understand how hurting yourself on purpose makes you stronger? That's the problem with traditional martial arts. It's too spiritual. It's a good thing MMA fighters aren't focused on shit like their "chi", because they're training and actually doing stuff that works.

I'd bet you one billion dollars (if I had it) that a white belt in jiu jitsu could beat a shaolin monk. A white belt.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I don't understand how hurting yourself on purpose makes you stronger? That's the problem with traditional martial arts. It's too spiritual. It's a good thing MMA fighters aren't focused on shit like their "chi", because they're training and actually doing stuff that works.
> 
> I'd bet you one billion dollars (if I had it) that a white belt in jiu jitsu could beat a shaolin monk. A white belt.



I wish you had a billion cause I would so take that bet. I'm not even close to Shaolin Monk level and I am highly confident I could beat white belt in Jiu Jitsu.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Gomu said:


> So you're saying what I just showed was bullshit. Stuff like striking your palms (the weakest part of the hands next to the joints) against stone and brick like it's nothing. Striking your head against metal sticks and breaking them and not receiving a mark after, running for miles and miles in posture without dropping or showing fatigue within the morning time, and doing this within all seasons (it's freezing in the fall and winters in Asia).
> 
> This has nothing to do with mental toughness, or the mental "game" that you speak of? If you watched my youtube videos you saw just some of what Shaolin Monk's go through during training, the aerial spear method is child's play for them, and is just a spectacle to show power.



and y'know what I'm saying not that it's bullshit that you think one of those guys could beat some one like say Fedor or Mike Tyson prime is bullshit

people need to watch more pro fights and less anime


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> I wish you had a billion cause I would so take that bet. I'm not even close to Shaolin Monk level and I am highly confident I could beat white belt in Jiu Jitsu.



Go to your local BJJ school, bring a video camera, roll with a white belt, record it, post it on here.


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## Lishenron (Oct 15, 2011)

Drayden said:


> +1?                         .



Not here man. Just sit back and watch the arguments


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## Violent by Design (Oct 15, 2011)

Strong bro-science in here. Destroying a brick doesn't mean you hit like a brick or you're as durable as a brick.

I know this is totally pointless, because some people just don't fathom how real fighting really is (and yes, prize fighting even though regulated, is a reflection of how good a fighter would be in "the streets"), but a human being is a human being. You cannot make yourself "steel". Every human has the same weak spots, and there is not much you can do to improve them. Shaolin monks are impressive athletes, but the entire allure that they are an unbeatable clan is laughable. Maybe prior to 1900 they might have had a claim, but around the turn of the last century, there have been other styles and martial artist that I would certainly rank ahead of it. 



Superrazien said:


> I wish you had a billion cause I would so take that bet. I'm not even close to Shaolin Monk level and I am highly confident I could beat white belt in Jiu Jitsu.



I'm being a 100% serious when I say this, but a white belt would seriously wreck you on the ground. If you're talking about a 3 stripe, he would play with you.

Walk into a jiu jitsu school and ask to roll around. If you're saucy enough, maybe challenge them to a friendly fight. Do it old school style and say their fighting style isn't shit. 

As a martial artist, I think it is important that you see how powerful other styles really are.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Go to your local BJJ school, bring a video camera, roll with a white belt, record it, post it on here.



it's gonna be hard for him to post what with the respirator and adult diapers and all that.


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## Violent by Design (Oct 15, 2011)

and did someone say people who do MMA do not do hellacious training? lol..arm-chair fighters in here.

for one, there are MMA who are the best martial artist in their respective disciplines before even crossing over, so how the fuck would you be considered an elite kick boxer or wrestler with out training ridiculously hard?

two, considering how much money and how much ridiculous amount of shit you have to learn to be a decent mixed martial artist, why would the training be lack luster? Not to mention as I said before, conditioning is up to a persons discretion.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Violent By Design said:


> and did someone say people who do MMA do not do hellacious training? lol..arm-chair fighters in here.
> .



lack of hellacious training discipline all manner of things have been said here


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

People always say "MMA fighters would lose against a pro boxer, or pro kickboxer, or a pure grappler, etc" but they don't realize that lots of MMA fighters, GSP for example, train with people who are better than them in that area constantly. Training with guys who were in the Olympics, pro-boxers, etc, they probably get dominated but they learn so much more from it than hitting a brick.

Also, you guys do know that smashing a brick isn't about strength, it's about angles and shit like that. Anyone can do it once you learn the technique.


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## Superrazien (Oct 15, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> Go to your local BJJ school, bring a video camera, roll with a white belt, record it, post it on here.



Ok doesn't sound like a bad idea. But you will be disappointed if you think it will be a ground fight.



> Also, you guys do know that smashing a brick isn't about strength, it's about angles and shit like that. Anyone can do it once you learn the technique.




All fighting is about technique, and life is about learning. Anyone can learn or do anything they want once they learn how.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's gonna be hard for him to post what with the respirator and adult diapers and all that.



See this comment really makes me think you just get hard off of seeing dudes roll around with each other. You don't know me, never seen me fight, and you sure as hell don't know the random white belt I would be fighting. To judge a battle with no knowledge of either fighter. Other than who is using what style really makes you an ignorant person.

For someone who keeps discrediting Chinese martial arts, you sure act like the old school Chinese masters. "WHAT YOU SAY YOUR TIGER CLAW IS BETTER THAN MY EAGLE CLAW!? IMPOSSIBLE!"


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> Ok doesn't sound like a bad idea. But you will be disappointed if you think it will be a ground fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How is hitting a brick the same as hitting a person?

And of course it will be a ground fight, how can you expect to challenge a BJJ style fighter and not expect him to take you to the ground?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 15, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> See this comment really makes me think you just get hard off of seeing dudes roll around with each other. You don't know me, never seen me fight, and you sure as hell don't know the random white belt I would be fighting. To judge a battle with no knowledge of either fighter. Other than who is using what style really makes you an ignorant person.
> 
> For someone who keeps discrediting Chinese martial arts, you sure act like the old school Chinese masters. "WHAT YOU SAY YOUR TIGER CLAW IS BETTER THAN MY EAGLE CLAW!? IMPOSSIBLE!"



wow I think this had more butthurt in it then Ctypes little tempertantrum


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G61d0feaIg[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Sean Sherk training. He did this stuff everyday for like 10 weeks. So MMA fighters don't endure brutal training? These guys lively hoods absolutely depend on their conditioning and endurance and stamina. Some of the best athletes on the planet. And don't give me that "I'll knock him out before he can take me down" bullcrap. People who need modified rules to win a fight a losers and pussies. You act like every MMA is just some guy who trains a little bit of everything. Like I said before, a lot of these guys come from pure kickboxing, grappling or wrestling backgrounds. You under rate the sport of MMA because your head is up the asses of all these traditional martial arts that have been proven to work very rarely. The new era of martial arts is here, and it's called MMA.



Ok Fireball. Lets not take this over proportion, because I'm looking at this, and I'm saying what... and that you're insane for taking the art of training of a shaolin monk so less. So I'm just gonna show you a few things that will get your head out of your ass...

Can


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 16, 2011)

pretty sure blowing a load all over a computerscreen over training videos is counted as a sin according to shaolin philosphy Gomu

seriously exhibitions in front of camera men and busting bricks usually don't count for much it's usually a show to hype up ones style


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pretty sure blowing a load all over a computerscreen over training videos is counted as a sin according to shaolin philosphy Gomu
> 
> seriously exhibitions in front of camera men and busting bricks usually don't count for much it's usually a show to hype up ones style



So what you're saying is, Fireballs evidence is also void too since it is also being showed over by camera men for hype? Careful with ya words.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 16, 2011)

Gomu said:


> So what you're saying is, Fireballs evidence is also void too since it is also being showed over by camera men for hype? Careful with ya words.



when you're able to reason properly and have the common sense to tell the difference between an exhibition video and what fire posted...then you can try and claim that until then

to quote byakuya 'you're a thousand years too young to challenge me"


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> when you're able to reason properly and have the common sense to tell the difference between an exhibition video and what fire posted...then you can try and claim that until then
> 
> to quote byakuya 'you're a thousand years too young to challenge me"



And when you're able to stop screwing with yourself saying that Fire's post wasn't an exhibition either, you come back to me. Why does he need to show his training on Youtube, hm?


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 16, 2011)

I think that a guy who is doing training specifically designed for fighting a 15 minute fight is a lot more impressive than some fucking circus tricks by some Shaolin Monks in the middle of fucking nowhere.

I posted a video of a guy who has arguably the best cardio in MMA training, you posted people balancing on their fingers. Wouldn't you think that a 10 week training program designed to increase your cardio and stamina works a lot better than a bunch of non sense that doesn't really help you at all?

Go suck a Monk's dick.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 16, 2011)

Gomu said:


> And when you're able to stop screwing with yourself saying that Fire's post wasn't an exhibition either, you come back to me. Why does he need to show his training on Youtube, hm?



training for things like boxing and MMA and competitive martial arts on video is usually not exhibition unless it's to hype for a match or something and even then they usually just film training videos interspersed with shitty music and interviews

what you posted was a classic martial arts 'showcase' it's very hard to take those vids seriously because allot of them are set up or staged..and that shit looked like pure "hype the fuck outta shaolin" stuff

what he posted is appears a bit more valid


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 16, 2011)

It is 100% valid, that was the training he was doing for 10 weeks prior to his fight with Tyson Griffin.


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## Havoc (Oct 16, 2011)

Sherk trains harder than most fighters, that was his "thing".

Just saying.

MMA fighters win btw.


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

You know what's interesting about this... you're saying that a guy that trains for "ten weeks" can beat someone who trains for days at a time, on or off title matches or anything like that is weaker. What you're saying is the amount of training someone does abides their strength in combat, then you're wrong in that aspect, people that practice real martial arts, none of that Mixed Martial Arts crap, only practice it within weeks, on set dates and times, actual use of martial arts, actual application of it, is practiced everyday.

So he trained for ten weeks... ten whole weeks *gasp*, wow, he must be fucking superman... oh wait, kids that practice in actual martial arts train before he does... what does that mean, can it be said that a kid is stronger than he is? Can it be said that in the time a kid trains that they are actually stronger than the "God's of Combat", no, it can't be said that. What you're saying however is that because of what he did for ten weeks he qualifies for what can be called a strong martial artist/combatant. That's pure bullshit, the aspects of martial arts isn't about how hard you train in a matter of days, or how large you think your strength is, it's about how you apply it to life and logic, not bullshit. Definitely not Mixed Martial Arts, for Godsakes, the guys actually know what the combatants gonna do before they fight, are you saying thats not part of the rules, theirs no rules in real combat, in street fighting, and the bullshit you're sprouting is that he can take a bat to the body, or he can take down creatures like bulls, tigers, etc. No, that ain't true at all.

All MMA is, is an application of many different martial arts to use in fighting, and guess what that means all the fucking martial arts they use comes from different martial arts aspects around the fucking world. Not only that, but they learn them only to a degree where they can be used for sport, and that's even larger amounts of crap. I understand that you like the MMA fighters because you like their bodies, and their workouts, and you probably wish you could attack like them, but guess what... MMA is nothing more than a sport of violent idiots attacking one another... strategy, interesting, strategy is when you can use what you know and use what you don't know to your advantage, if that's the case than actual underground wrestling would fuck any MMA fighter up, because I can bet you those fuckers are ten times stronger than your so-called "Strongest Fighters".

Anyway, what you're saying is crap, and compared to a street fight, where anything goes, that means that mentality, focus, and ability come into play. MMA isn't shit but rules and regulations. And you know what, I can tell ya, when an MMA fighter has done something more than lifted a few weights in "ten weeks" and honed his body more for fighting in the real world. You tell me, and I will agree with you, until then, Sayonara.

*Waves, laughing*


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 16, 2011)

> Jesus you would think other MA's don't have defences against such a thing.
> 
> what those guys just going to sit back and watch you do that



Kindly mention those defenses because I posted vids including the exploits of Royce Gracie who has taken on trained martial arts fighters then shows us what happens when a fight goes to the ground. No argument from belief fallacies, it's common sense that if you can't counter fighting on the ground it's going to insanely hard to win(not impossible but but more often than not a loss unless they can somehow power out but then the MMA fighter just changes positions and applies something more effective), MMA fighters are trained for that. 



> All MMA is, is an application of many different martial arts to use in fighting, and guess what that means all the fucking martial arts they use comes from different martial arts aspects around the fucking world. Not only that, but they learn them only to a *degree where they can be used for sport, and that's even larger amounts of crap*



Oh god, the reason we are talking about MMA over regular martial arts is because it has more variety, it borrows from many styles and does not suffer the weakness of anyone style. The bolded is more funny because we do have regular martial arts as sport. MMA was also no holds barred as mentioned here, MMA fighters are practioners of various martial arts forms. Stop pretending as though these guys can't injure or cripple someone. They are using those same martial arts moves that you speak so highly of but with more than one style consisting of strikes and grapples. I'll just quote you for my reaction



> *laughing*




This is not like the martial arts movies, comics, anime , games or cartoons. Some people need to watch less hollywood martial arts films and see an actual fight.


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## Superrazien (Oct 16, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> How is hitting a brick the same as hitting a person?
> 
> And of course it will be a ground fight, how can you expect to challenge a BJJ style fighter and not expect him to take you to the ground?



When last I looked hitting a brick requires more force to break than bone. Which means if you can break a brick, you can break someones bones.

I could easily just as say, "How can a BJJ hope to take me to the ground?" All thats needed to throw his face into a wall is simple Tai Chi or Akido. I wouldn't even need to get fancy, especially since he is a white belt and most white belts charge like a crazed bull. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> wow I think this had more butthurt in it then Ctypes little tempertantrum



Not butthurt; but thanks for pretty much admitting you are ignorant of what your talking about.


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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

The amount of fallacies you guys are using is just unintelligible.. What is the purpose of this thread anymore? Flaming other side with utterly nonsensical opinions? Those who have no clue how real fighting works should go back to their own imagination land where all those ridiculous ninja tricks works.

I mean, this thread was over right after it was made. Everyone who knows someting about martial arts and have some COMMON SENSE knows that this should be in joke battledome.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Kindly mention those defenses because I posted vids including the exploits of Royce Gracie who has taken on trained martial arts fighters then shows us what happens when a fight goes to the ground. No argument from belief fallacies, it's common sense that if you can't counter fighting on the ground it's going to insanely hard to win(not impossible but but more often than not a loss unless they can somehow power out but then the MMA fighter just changes positions and applies something more effective), MMA fighters are trained for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MMA ground work is sloppy compared to that of jui jitsu or wrestler ground work. The only reason they can do such good ground work is because they *are under MMA rule which your videos displayed this is a street fight no rules here so guess what , they will be eye gouges and dirty fighting. Since they have half the ground work than a guy who specialize in  those they will realize the hold it is that simple. I be waiting for street fight of MMA fighter vs another MA. *


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 16, 2011)

Superrazien said:


> Not butthurt; but thanks for pretty much admitting you are ignorant of what your talking about.



not especially certain you should be trying to spam image macros when you've repeatedly shown a complete lack of objectivity and routinely get called out for it in movie MA related threads


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 16, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:


> MMA ground work is sloppy compared to that of jui jitsu or wrestler ground work. The only reason they can do such good ground work is because they *are under MMA rule which your videos displayed this is a street fight no rules here so guess what , they will be eye gouges and dirty fighting. Since they have half the ground work than a guy who specialize in  those they will realize the hold it is that simple. I be waiting for street fight of MMA fighter vs another MA. *



We have something called MMA underground fights, MMA fighters as anyone with common sense will tell you are also martial artists hence the Martial Arts part that follows Mixed. So yes two MMA users in a no holds barred has happen and still does but they're not exactly famous. What the hell are you saying?Those who use dirty tactics are better than those who've trained to fight on the ground?How does that make the hold "simple"?Considering the hold has to broken and attempts to counter can be countered(again they are trained to fight on the ground and have to face people who can counter those submission holds).

By this same defination a pure boxer will lose to someone in a street fight because they are under rules, never mind a MMA user who could have boxing knowledge and knowledge on other forms who you assume will lose based on your argument from belief fallacies. Kindly stop showing how little you know of an actual fight. 

No holds barred means they can do far worse, closing the distance or applying the hold is still the same, low blows or any dirty tactic is applicable to both sides so the non MMA fighter has no edge. The no rules part means they just break an arm or keep hammering at the skull instead of stopping even after the opponent is defeated. You keep saying MMA work is sloppy compared to *wrestling and Jiu jitsu moves that are also part of it*?Do you know what the Mixed in Mixed Martial arts stands for?It's called Mixed Martial Arts because it's a combination of any number of martial arts. Did you even know what MMA stood for before this?There are Jiu Jitsu practioners in MMA, I posted a vid of one such fighter. 

You don't even know what you're talking about.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> We have something called MMA underground fights, MMA fighters as anyone with common sense will tell you are also martial artists hence the Martial Arts part that follows Mixed. So yes two MMA users in a no holds barred has happen and still does but they're not exactly famous. What the hell are you saying?Those who use dirty tactics are better than those who've trained to fight on the ground?How does that make the hold "simple"?Considering the hold has to broken and attempts to counter can be countered(again they are trained to fight on the ground and have to face people who can counter those submission holds).
> 
> By this same defination a pure boxer will lose to someone in a street fight because they are under rules, never mind a MMA user who could have boxing knowledge and knowledge on other forms who you assume will lose based on your argument from belief fallacies. Kindly stop showing how little you know of an actual fight.
> 
> ...



I see you don't understand what exactly street fighting is and yes dirty tactics will let them break those holds, if it goes to the ground. It won't really go to the ground because that impractical. 

Don't give me underground crap seriously all you providing is MMA vs MMA not MMA vs other MA in an anything goes. As soon you grasp this then you realize MMA is not all that.


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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:
			
		

> It won't really go to the ground because that impractical.



Mounting other guy and pounding his head to little pieces is by no means impractical. Don't say it won't happen, because it's extremely easy to perform if other guy has no experience of grappling or has shitty tdd. It's much easier to rip someone's eyes off when you have him mounted, too. Traditional MA guys are not the only ones who can use dirty tactics either. I have enough experience myself so I can tell this much.

I still don't say that traditional MA guys would definitely lose, but it's more likely to happen than vice versa.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 16, 2011)

Huey Freeman, kindly stop posting. You don't seem to know how a fight happens and if you think a ground and pound fight is impractical that's hilarious when fights can turn into brawls on the ground, the MMA user just has more advantages via submission moves and training to fight like that. You say it won't work because they normally fight by the rules, now you're making some excuse about how it's impractical?.

I repeat no holds barred MMA happens too.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Lkonog said:


> Mounting other guy and pounding his head to little pieces is by no means impractical. Don't say it won't happen, because it's extremely easy to perform if other guy has no experience of grappling or has shitty tdd. It's much easier to rip someone's eyes off when you have him mounted, too. Traditional MA guys are not the only ones who can use dirty tactics either. I have enough experience myself so I can tell this much.
> 
> I still don't say that traditional MA guys would definitely lose, but it's more likely to happen than vice versa.




My point is that is that the MMA fighter use tactics because he already know what he is up against. Sure he can get in ground work but don't make it sound it be easy for him to do so. He is well round with everything but he is not superior stronger in any. If he fights a pure bred striker he needs ground work, if he goes agains pure bred ground fighter he will use striking . 

Only way I can put this in an example is with what I know  , lets say I (boxer) vs MMA fighter street fight , now we don't know each other but just what we practice. 
I already know if it goes into a submission and on the ground i pretty much screwed . What I do? Keep pressuring him and keep him on the defensive so if he goes for that he has to lower his guard to do so.  

You can say well he can shin kick you , remember with rules boxers don't grab their opponents without you will see an impromptu hold maybe a take down.


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## Artful Lurker (Oct 16, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Z-tTzYTG0[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpUz6ViwyIM[/YOUTUBE]
Skip to 10:00

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdEzIFHxnCA[/YOUTUBE]


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## blackhound89 (Oct 16, 2011)

well , anyone who is not brazilian wouldnt know, but anderson silva used to be feared in curitiba because he was always picking street fights, in fact he was always winning street fights . His fame grew big enough so that it got the atention of some coaches who managed to tranform  a thug into a martial artist.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

blackhound89 said:


> well , anyone who is not brazilian wouldnt know, but anderson silva used to be feared in curitiba because he was always picking street fights, in fact he was always winning street fights . His fame grew big enough so that it got the atention of some coaches who managed to tranform  a thug into a martial artist.



Now something like this is what I call a good argument for a particular MMA fighter in street fight. Does not apply to all MMA fighters.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 16, 2011)

Oh god, Huey Freeman an MMA fighter that puts someone in a hold is going to be something that someone will not be able to counter unless they have the strength or have training to counter those holds(even then not easy) or get a hold of some foreign object and god forbid the MMA user apply a choke hold or make attempts to stop them by changing into another hold. 



> Now something like this is what I call a good argument for a particular MMA fighter in street fight. Does not apply to all MMA fighters



You mean like how street fighting does not apply to all martial artists who only know one style and are not trained for ground work or street fights?The guys who knows one style will win a street fight when all they can do is either punch or kick or both as their training but the guy who knows multiple styles of martial arts loses?. The no holds barred rules applies to both sides it's not an advantage to any one side here. No rules means no one has to follow them, Boxers are not trained exclusive for a street fight anymore than an MMA fighter who knows Boxing as well. Stop acting like MMA fighters don't know how to counter attempts over submission holds when they fight people trained to counter/escape submissions too. Mixed Martial arts is also Martial arts if the name did not make it obvious, just more versatile due to having many styles and not just one rigid style.

You don't have any argument.


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Oh god, Huey Freeman an MMA fighter that puts someone in a hold is going to be something that someone will not be able to counter unless they have the strength or have training to counter those holds(even then not easy) or get a hold of some foreign object and god forbid the MMA user apply a choke hold or make attempts to stop them by changing into another hold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're fucking insane. What you're saying is, people that know what the other can do before hand, people that fight others with similar knowledge to them, people that don't use weapons, low blows, or anything like that can beat people that fight to win. Tranquil, that's crazy as hell, did you not look at the three movies Luffy posted. All three of those people are or have been revered as very powerful fighters, all three of them, not to mention an MMA fighter just said it even *ORIGINATED* from the man you are trying to bash right now. So stop with the bullshit.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Oh god, Huey Freeman an MMA fighter that puts someone in a hold is going to be something that someone will not be able to counter unless they have the strength or have training to counter those holds(even then not easy) or get a hold of some foreign object and god forbid the MMA user apply a choke hold or make attempts to stop them by changing into another hold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


to sum up this is that you don't know jack shit about fighting and just hyping MMA just to hype MMA sakes.


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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

And here we go! We are just repeating the same arguments over and over again.. We'll never come to any conclusion if this goes on like this.


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## Tranquil Fury (Oct 16, 2011)

So Gomu is once again rehashing arguments and Huey Freeman did'nt even make an argument outside No U. 



> You're fucking insane. What you're saying is, people that know what the other can do before hand, people that fight others with similar knowledge to them, people that don't use weapons, low blows, or anything like that can beat people that fight to win



Do martial artists who study only one style like Kung Fu get trained to fight on the street?No?Then shut up, this post applies to your side of the argument as well and fighting dirty is within No Holds barred MMA, kindly stop ignoring others mentioning this.

Guys who are trained to fight, use take downs, control fights,counter submissions or attempts to counter moves from other fighters will do better than some random hobo on the street who fights dirty. Because karate or boxers or Kung Fu practioners are not trained in no holds barred on average either.



> Tranquil, that's crazy as hell, did you not look at the three movies Luffy posted. All three of those people are or have been revered as very powerful fighters, all three of them, not to mention an MMA fighter just said it even ORIGINATED from the man you are trying to bash right now. So stop with the bullshit



Being considered good means nothing because so are the MMA guys, fighting has changed and evolved. You're the one ignoring vids posted or the explanation mentioned here. We already explained each movie star's 'fighting' resume and explained why it's not impressive. 



> And here we go! We are just repeating the same arguments over and over again.. We'll never come to any conclusion if this goes on like this



They really come off as petulant children.Probably are too.


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> So Gomu is once again rehashing arguments and Huey Freeman did'nt even make an argument outside No U.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's funny considering you guys are talking about bastards who fight in tournaments and have nothing to go against but people that fight using the same styles, it's always funny when you consider it. The person that basically created the aspects of Mixed Martial Arts (Taking something from a style and then using it and throwing other implementations away to use it), yeah... he created that, and you know what he would probably do with your "groundwork" use it to fuck every single one of the fucking MMA fighters that came across him with their own moves.

You're also forgetting that, most people that fought Lee, you know concerning his weight class, and situations with how MMA uses a weight class system to divide, as being apart of the rules... he fought whoever wanted to fight him, no matter if they were 200 pounds over his weight limit. He would of still fucked him up. So tell me, when you've seen an MMA fighter, any of these MMA fighters go against someone who has a large advantage of weight over them, you show me and I shalt stop talking.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> So Gomu is once again rehashing arguments and Huey Freeman did'nt even make an argument outside No U.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is clear that you honestly believe that in a street fight once MMA fighter takes it to the ground its gg no matter who he is fighting . I have no further statement to argue against the ignorant.


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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

It's *most likely* gg, if the opponent has no to little experience in ground fighting. I mean, that's common sense.


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## eHav (Oct 16, 2011)

huey and gomu clearly lack that. this topic going beyond the first page is astonishing


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Lkonog said:


> It's *most likely* gg, if the opponent has no to little experience in ground fighting. I mean, that's common sense.



Yeah and how easy that is going to be?

Oh and for the record its not wise to lower your guard (which takedowns and shifting to ground work will do) to a guy who can knock you out cold with a solid hit. 

Tournaments, octagons , any form of rules =/= street fighting kid


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)




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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

As a wrestler I know that it is not THAT hard to get one dimensional strikers down. I can guarantee to you, IT IS NOT THAT HARD. All you have to do is keep your hands in guard till you secure a takedown and after that it depends on ground skills. I know that, because I have taken strikers down without getting KO'd or even hurt. There is a possibility that one of those 1-3 hits could hit the button, but that isn't as likely as you're trying to imply. TDD is like fucking important aspect of street fighting if one of the guys have good td's. 

Almost everything is possible in street fight, but we are discussing what would be the most likely scenario.


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

Lkonog said:


> As a wrestler I know that it is not THAT hard to get one dimensional strikers down. I can guarantee to you, IT IS NOT THAT HARD. All you have to do is keep your hands in guard till you secure a takedown and after that it depends on ground skills. I know that, because I have taken strikers down without getting KO'd or even hurt. There is a possibility that one of those 1-3 hits could hit the button, but that isn't as likely as you're trying to imply. TDD is like fucking important aspect of street fighting if one of the guys have good td's.
> 
> Almost everything is possible in street fight, but we are discussing what would be the most likely scenario.



Jet Li and Steven Seagal go down, Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan take out the trash. Not that hard.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 16, 2011)

Lkonog said:


> *As a wrestler I know that it is not THAT hard to get one dimensional strikers down. I can guarantee to you, IT IS NOT THAT HARD. All you have to do is keep your hands in guard till you secure a takedown *and after that it depends on ground skills. I know that, because I have taken strikers down without getting KO'd or even hurt. There is a possibility that one of those 1-3 hits could hit the button, but that isn't as likely as you're trying to imply. TDD is like fucking important aspect of street fighting if one of the guys have good td's.
> 
> Almost everything is possible in street fight, but we are discussing what would be the most likely scenario.


this either tells me your bullshitting or just fighting real idiots.

Unless their is a distinct weight difference and strength difference between the two of you then you need to overpower the other guy.

Also keen striker will realize what your setting to do upon him just from the way your approaching , avoiding trading blows and always on guard. That being said he will also wait till you make the first move  and as soon as you make that opening .

Also I can't street this enough taking a strike directly to the face from MMA or wrestling =/= the same time for any striking base MA.

Trust me if you and a boxer are about the same weight you going to fight him off his feat and if you allow him to sneak a sucker punch or a solid hit in your glass jaw will be saying good bye.


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 16, 2011)

I love that these guys act like MMA isn't a real form of fighting, and that none of them know how to fight.

The Gracies would challenge people to no holds barred street fights, their opponents versed in kung-fu, kenpo, etc... and they would wreck them. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, you're just following this stupid 1970s martial arts movie bullshit. It's not real, dude. Aikido doesn't work, nor does tai chi. Anyone with a basic grasp of wrestling, jiu jitsu, sambo or judo could take you down within seconds. What's an Aikido guy gonna do? Put them in a wrist lock?

Go watch some old vale tudo fights. Bare in mind, these are no holds barred. Hair pulling, groin strikes, soccer kicks/stomps are legal.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2pd7HQAkMM[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0BniIAkA2Q[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz_3ew_Wl74&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

No offense, but it's hard for me to believe any of you have ever been in a fight. You act like MMA is just some lame sport, but not only did a lot of these guys grow up fighting even before MMA, but they train hard and in a way that actually benefits them. Stop watching so much anime and grow up.



> Trust me if you and a boxer are about the same weight you going to fight him off his feat and if you allow him to sneak a sucker punch or a solid hit in your glass jaw will be saying good bye.



Most takedowns are about leverage, not brute strength. YOU obviously haven't been in a fight, cause you'd know that a double/single leg takedown, a hip toss, etc... are all about leverage and technique. And how would a pure boxer/striker know how to defend a takedown?


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## Gomu (Oct 16, 2011)

The Fireball Kid said:


> I love that these guys act like MMA isn't a real form of fighting, and that none of them know how to fight.
> 
> The Gracies would challenge people to no holds barred street fights, their opponents versed in kung-fu, kenpo, etc... and they would wreck them. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, you're just following this stupid 1970s martial arts movie bullshit. It's not real, dude. Aikido doesn't work, nor does tai chi. Anyone with a basic grasp of wrestling, jiu jitsu, sambo or judo could take you down within seconds. What's an Aikido guy gonna do? Put them in a wrist lock?
> 
> ...



Weren't we talking about the guys from the official MMA markers, I thought you said that MMA fighters the "four greatest in your minds right now", were the factors of winning, so when did Vale Tudo a distinctively different fighting aspect get into MMA, please tell me.


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## Cirno (Oct 16, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:
			
		

> Trust me if you and a boxer are about the same weight you going to fight him off his feat and if you allow him to sneak a sucker punch or a solid hit in your glass jaw will be saying good bye.



Eh, who has a glass jaw again? Stop using stupid fallacies and even try to be somewhat objective..

+ Wrestling is nothing about overpowering your opponent. You can get MUCH bigger opponents down with skill alone. Strenght is only secondary thing in wrestling.

E: I'm going to sleep now.


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## The Fireball Kid (Oct 16, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Weren't we talking about the guys from the official MMA markers, I thought you said that MMA fighters the "four greatest in your minds right now", were the factors of winning, so when did Vale Tudo a distinctively different fighting aspect get into MMA, please tell me.



Vale tudo is essentially MMA with less rules, a precursor if you will.

Well first of all, the guys listed are WAY too good for the opponents. It's over kill. I mean, Frankie Edgar, GSP, Jones and Aldo all have tremendous striking abilities. GSP and Edgar have technical boxing, where as Jones and Aldo are very technical but have knock out power (more specifically Jose Aldo).

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjY8arC0eso&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLAcvgVqlGQ[/YOUTUBE]

(His opponent is over 100 pounds heavier than him, mind you. GSP still takes him down.)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZBkVQXU0DQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_EHjfIgnm4[/YOUTUBE]


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