# Egypt?s Muslim Brotherhood to Ban Skimpy Bikinis, Alcohol



## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

> Despite widespread media assertions that the Egyptian revolution was intended to bring about a democratic rule, there is increasing evidence to the contrary. The Muslim Brotherhood is urging officials to consider a ban ? which would particularly target tourists ? on skimpy bikinis and alcohol in the streets, regulations which closely resemble Sharia law.
> 
> Muhammad Saad Al-Katatny, secretary-general of Freedom and Justice, explains, "Beach tourism must take the values and norms of our society into account. We must place regulations on tourists wishing to visit Egypt, which we will announce in advance.?
> 
> ...


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2011)

> Some parties want to ban tourism



More restrictions, less money, more moral bullshit! How can anyone even take these "parties" serious?


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## Shinigami Perv (Nov 9, 2011)

Good luck passing that in a new parliament. The Egyptian people don't want to see their tourism industry disappear.


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## xenopyre (Nov 9, 2011)

yeah those are the biggest issues Egypt is facing right now  screw high rate unemployment and illiteracy , stagnating economy , poverty and a soon to be famine .


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

Zaru said:


> More restrictions, less money, more moral bullshit! How can anyone even take these "parties" serious?



Actually I respect these restrictions, people should come to Egypt to look into its history, enjoy the white & red sea and learn about its culture. If your main objective is to get drunk and terrorize the street there are other places for that: Las Vegas LOL


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 9, 2011)

What does the brotherhood have against bikinis?


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

BillionYearsAgo said:


> What does the brotherhood have against bikinis?



According to Islamic law men and women should dress modestly


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> According to Islamic law men and women should dress modestly



So do they expect European tourists to swim in burqinis? I mean that ain't gonna go well with the tourists.


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

BillionYearsAgo said:


> So do they expect European tourists to swim in burqinis? I mean that ain't gonna go well with the tourists.



No. there would certainly be private beaches for women and Islamic swimwear would also be sold:


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## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2011)

xenopyre said:


> yeah those are the biggest issues Egypt is facing right now  screw high rate unemployment and illiteracy , stagnating economy , poverty and a soon to be famine .



Welcome to the world of Arab politics.

In any regard we're getting tired of all the Arab Spring "we told you so"es


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## Shinigami Perv (Nov 9, 2011)

Megaharrison said:


> Welcome to the world of Arab politics.
> 
> In any regard we're getting tired of all the Arab Spring "we told you so"es



Did you read the article?


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> No. there would certainly be private beaches for women and Islamic swimwear would also be sold:


Well, not to be rude or anything, but if I have to swim in that I better go to Thailand for a holiday. Why to choose Egypt if in Thailand I can swim in what I want?

Are normal bikinis OK on private beaches for women? Becaue I'm kind of confused...


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

BillionYearsAgo said:


> Well, not to be rude or anything, but if I have to swim in that I better go to Thailand for a holiday. Why to choose Egypt if in Thailand I can swim in what I want?
> 
> Are normal bikinis OK on private beaches for women? Becaue I'm kind of confused...




I don't know about bikinis (since the navel should be covered) but bathing suits should be allowed on women only beaches.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Israelis shouldn't be tired yet. Soon Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria and Yemen will be among the countries to liberate the Palestinians in the very same manner that they were liberated in.



LOL no they won't.  Please show me documentation of such plans.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

More restrictions? Are they really necessary?


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> More restrictions? Are they really necessary?




At least Mubarak has gone.


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Nov 9, 2011)

They're just restricting drinking alcohol on the streets, right? If that's what goes for sharia down there Sweden must be deep in it, because it's not allowed here either 

Does that stop people from drinking? No. It just stops drinking in public. I admit that enforcement is lax during festivities, though.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> At least Mubarak has gone.



Mubarak didn't restrict the only source of Egypt's income.. at least he had some common sense.

Unlike the Muslim Brotherhood that's trying to establish a disgusting Sharia government.


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> They're just restricting drinking alcohol on the streets, right? If that's what goes for sharia down there Sweden must be deep in it, because it's not allowed here either
> 
> Does that stop people from drinking? No. It just stops drinking in public. I admit that enforcement is lax during festivities, though.



I hope that alcohol is completely abolished. Alcohol should be abolished anyway it's no different than any other drug.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Did you read the article?



Yes, and it's showing the rise of Islamism. This would have never happened under Mubarak. Even if they suffer a setback here they'll gradually get a stranglehold on the government and these kinds of measures are going to be popular on the Egyptian street, despite what the more pragmatic or moderate government officials want. The MB's religious platform has made them the most popular movement in Egypt for a reason. From Egypt to Tunisia to Libya the "Arab Spring" has been a victory for Islamists. Your dismissal of this might be more warranted if they weren't the largest and most well-organized political group in Egypt. 

I do think this will ultimately be defeated, right now Egypt is basically a military junta whose commanders are legacy's of the Mubarak era of secularism and what the military wants will ultimately come to pass (such as their violent dispersal of recent protests against food shortages or pro-war Israel rallies). But the military will be under immense international and social pressure to gradually give up power, and it's then that the real damage is going to start.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> I hope that alcohol is completely abolished. Alcohol should be abolished anyway it's no different than any other drug.



Depends on how much you drink. Alcoholic drinks go well with certain foods, enhancing the flavour and all that.


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## xenopyre (Nov 9, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> They're just restricting drinking alcohol on the streets, right? If that's what goes for sharia down there Sweden must be deep in it, because it's not allowed here either
> 
> Does that stop people from drinking? No. It just stops drinking in public. I admit that enforcement is lax during festivities, though.





> But the restrictions may not be limited to just bathing suits and alcohol. Abd Al-Munim A-Shahhat, a spokesman for the Salafi group Dawa, contends that Egypt?s pharaonic archaeology ? which includes the pyramids and other well known monuments ? should be hidden from the public, as they are covered with imagery that it un-Islamic. Comparing the Eygptian relics to the idols of pre-Islamic times, A-Shahhat claims, ?The pharaonic culture is a rotten culture [and] should be covered with wax, since they are religiously forbidden.?



They want to restrict Tourism as a whole  hopefully the army would exercise some kind of lobby on them to bring them back to their senses


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

Once again proving that Muslims don't think economically. Yeah, good job restricting the only source of income


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 9, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> Mubarak didn't restrict the only source of Egypt's income.. at least he had some common sense.
> 
> Unlike the Muslim Brotherhood that's trying to establish a disgusting Sharia government.



Mubarak sold Israel gas at a cheap price and pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars in the deal.

What's disgusting about shariah law??? If it was such a bad thing why do so many people in Egypt support the brotherhood?? Why does Libya's NTC want to establish it in Libya? Why did Tunisia elect an Islamic party???


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 9, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> Depends on how much you drink. Alcoholic drinks go well with certain foods, enhancing the flavour and all that.



Not to mention Red Wine is actually healthy, has antioxidants and is good for heart.  provided you don't get wasted. Beer has some good qualities too, again provided you don't get wasted.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Mubarak sold Israel gas at a cheap price and pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars in the deal.
> 
> What's disgusting about shariah law??? If it was such a bad thing why do so many people in Egypt support the brotherhood?? Why does Libya's NTC want to establish it in Libya? Why did Tunisia elect an Islamic party???


Argument from popularity, just because many support it doesn't mean it's good. 

Also ignore Yachiru he never says anything worthwhile not that you do either.



BillionYearsAgo said:


> Not to mention Red Wine is actually healthy, has antioxidants and is good for heart.  provided you don't get wasted. Beer has some good qualities too, again provided you don't get wasted.


And it can also erode your teeth and increase your chances of oral cancer especially with the average alcohol consumer level.


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## Xion (Nov 9, 2011)

Zaru said:


> More restrictions, less money, more moral bullshit! How can anyone even take these "parties" serious?



Every political party in the world pretty much advocates more restrictions, more moral bullshit nowadays. It's really surprising considering society should be moving in the opposite direction. 



BillionYearsAgo said:


> Well, not to be rude or anything, but if I have to swim in that I better go to Thailand for a holiday. Why to choose Egypt if in Thailand I can swim in what I want?
> 
> Are normal bikinis OK on private beaches for women? Becaue I'm kind of confused...



As a bonus, in Thailand you get a free sex change with any tourism package.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Mubarak sold Israel gas at a cheap price and pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars in the deal.
> 
> What's disgusting about shariah law??? If it was such a bad thing why do so many people in Egypt support the brotherhood?? Why does Libya's NTC want to establish it in Libya? Why did Tunisia elect an Islamic party???



Regardless, doesn't change the fact that Mubarak at least had an economic mind despite being one cruel dictator. Unlike the Brotherhood, he doesn't try to ruin the country by banning the main source of income.

First off, it's a no-brainer that Egypt's population is one of the most fanatic. The majority of the population is Muslim, so no surprise they would support an Islamic party. Same to Lybia and Tunisia, their population is Muslim. But just because many people support a certain movement, doesn't make it perfect.

Take Germany for example. Many, MANY people during 1932/33 supported Hitler's movement. Did this make his ideology any better? No.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

Godwins law, how I love thee.


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## xenopyre (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Mubarak sold Israel gas at a cheap price and pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars in the deal.
> 
> What's disgusting about shariah law??? If it was such a bad thing why do so many people in Egypt support the brotherhood?? Why does Libya's NTC want to establish it in Libya? Why did Tunisia elect an Islamic party???


Again Tunisia didn't elect an Islamic party , they only got 40% of the votes , while the rest 60% are hardcore secularists not to mention that 37% of the votes were useless since they were dispersed among many small parties , AL-nahdha barely represents 10% of the Tunisian population .


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 9, 2011)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> And it can also erode your teeth and increase your chances of oral cancer especially with the average alcohol consumer level.


Well from what I heard just about anything can give you cancer. Either way I don't see anything  wrong with having a little bit of  a party on your holiday. I don't think anyone should be denied that. 



> As a bonus, in Thailand you get a free sex change with any tourism package.


Oh my


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2011)

Look man...you can ban the booze, but I'm quite upset at this bikini ban.

Egypt has fine women and you're depriving us all.  Shame on you.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

BillionYearsAgo said:


> Well from what I heard just about anything can give you cancer. Either way I don't see anything  wrong with having a little bit of  a party on your holiday. I don't think anyone should be denied that.



Not agreeing with the ban of alcohol in the leastest nor the bikini one. I am merely adding the finishing touches.


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Nov 9, 2011)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> Godwins law, how I love thee.



What do you mean? What are you insinuating by saying that? That Yachiru lost the argument?


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> What do you mean? What are you insinuating by saying that? That Yachiru lost the argument?


I just find it amusing when people compare things to nazis in-order to feel good about their stance. That's all. 

As for his argument it is flawed since he makes the assumption that due to the egyptians, libyans and tunisians being muslim they will automatically elect a muslim party, which is quite ironic considering that one of his examples (Tunisia) didn't.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> What do you mean? What are you insinuating by saying that? That Yachiru lost the argument?



You can't call this logical fallacy an argument. First, Sagemode said Mubarak sold Israeli gas for cheap prices in response to my argument that he has an economic mind and doesn't ban Egypt's main source of income 
What does that have to do with Mubarak not banning tourism? For instance, Israel never was in this argument. Furthermore, he only proved my point about Mubarak thinking economically.

And also, population's support for Sharia law says nothing, absolutely nothing about its quality. The rise of Hitler illustrates this best. And, to go even deeper, some of the worlds poorest countries are Islamic theocracies with the exception of Saudi Arabia. So no, Sharia law is nothing to write home about, period.

So how did I lose this argument?




-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> I just find it amusing when people compare things to nazis in-order to feel good about their stance. That's all.
> 
> As for his argument it is flawed since he makes the assumption that due to the egyptians, libyans and tunisians being muslim they will automatically elect a muslim party, which is quite ironic considering that one of his examples (Tunisia) didn't.



Sorry, but it's also a fallacy to say people compare things to the Nazis "just to feel god about their stance". I merely used Hitler as an example to point out that population's support of a legislation (or a movement) doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial to the country.

Let's examine the Egyptian case. The majority is Muslim, there's hatred against Coptic christians in particular, much illiteracy etc. Is it really surprising that such a population supports a movement that concurs with Islamic views, Sharia law in particular?`
As for Tunisia, Al-Nahda did get 40% of the votes and this party is clearly Islamic. The only thing that will differ from the classic Islamic theocracy is that Al-Nahda can't oppress the population to an extent Iran does. Also, you have to ask yourself how Al-Nahda got 40% of the votes. It indicates that a large number of people support this party.
As for Lybia, the NTC said that the Lybian constitution would be inspired by Sharia law, so I admit that this is the grey area. We still have to see how this turns out.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> You can't call this logical fallacy an argument. First, Sagemode said Mubarak sold Israeli gas for cheap prices in response to my argument that he has an economic mind and doesn't ban Egypt's main source of income
> What does that have to do with Mubarak not banning tourism? For instance, Israel never was in this argument. Furthermore, he only proved my point about Mubarak thinking economically.
> 
> And also, population's support for Sharia law says nothing, absolutely nothing about its quality. The rise of Hitler illustrates this best. And, to go even deeper, some of the worlds poorest countries are Islamic theocracies with the exception of Saudi Arabia. So no, Sharia law is nothing to write home about, period.
> ...


You do know he was defending you ... right?


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2011)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> And it can also erode your teeth and increase your chances of oral cancer especially with the average alcohol consumer level.



Oral... cancer? I live in a highly alcohol-consuming society (as hard as this is when you're abstinent like me), and nobody here ever has oral cancer. Leaving the house is more dangerous than that.


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## Mael (Nov 9, 2011)

Shame on you, Egypt.


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Nov 9, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> You can't call this logical fallacy an argument. First, Sagemode said Mubarak sold Israeli gas for cheap prices in response to my argument that he has an economic mind and doesn't ban Egypt's main source of income
> What does that have to do with Mubarak not banning tourism? For instance, Israel never was in this argument. Furthermore, he only proved my point about Mubarak thinking economically.
> 
> And also, population's support for Sharia law says nothing, absolutely nothing about its quality. The rise of Hitler illustrates this best. And, to go even deeper, some of the worlds poorest countries are Islamic theocracies with the exception of Saudi Arabia. So no, Sharia law is nothing to write home about, period.
> ...



I never said you lost the argument. I had to ask Ziggy about what he meant with that statement. I mainly agreed with your comparison.

The fact that something is popular does not make it right.


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## Yachiru (Nov 9, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> I never said you lost the argument. I had to ask Ziggy about what he meant with that statement. I mainly agreed with your comparison.
> 
> The fact that something is popular does not make it right.



I know, just wanted to point out a few things


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## The Pink Ninja (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes, please cut off your largest revenue stream, you're much less dangerous that way and the natural anthitetical lashback against their fuckup will hopefully end the Islamists for a generation.


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## Syed (Nov 9, 2011)

Damn shame they're trying to ban bikinis.


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

Zaru said:


> Oral... cancer? I live in a highly alcohol-consuming society (as hard as this is when you're abstinent like me), and nobody here ever has oral cancer. Leaving the house is more dangerous than that.


I live in Scotland, Glasgow( I doubt that your alcohol consumption is considered high by comparison) and I am a dental student(not the most exciting thing but meh), just because you have a few anecdotes does not make it true.


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## Huntress (Nov 9, 2011)

any egyptians who can afford it should GTFO out of egypt before it turns into a second iran/saudi arabia.
any who cant afford it, well i feel very sorry for them.


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## Oil Can (Nov 9, 2011)

This topic just convinced me to pour a glass of really good Riesling. Thank you!


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Nov 9, 2011)

Good news for Morocco ???


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## Kafuka de Vil (Nov 9, 2011)

All those people dying under the belief of liberation and casting aside the shackles of oppression, only to usher in Sharia Law.

That’s pretty depressing.

Ahaha.



DragonFist5 said:


> I hope that alcohol is completely abolished. Alcohol should be abolished anyway it's no different than any other drug.



Are you fucking kiddin' me?


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## -= Ziggy Stardust =- (Nov 9, 2011)

Unfortunatley he isn't. ^



Yachiru said:


> Sorry, but it's also a fallacy to say people compare things to the Nazis "just to feel good about their stance". I merely used Hitler as an example to point out that population's support of a legislation (or a movement) doesn't necessarily mean it's beneficial to the country.


I'll give you this. 


Yachiru said:


> As for Tunisia, Al-Nahda did get 40% of the votes and this party is clearly Islamic. The only thing that will differ from the classic Islamic theocracy is that Al-Nahda can't oppress the population to an extent Iran does. Also, you have to ask yourself how Al-Nahda got 40% of the votes. It indicates that a large number of people support this party.


it's already been mentioned in this thread and the Tunisia thread:



xenopyre said:


> Again Tunisia didn't elect an Islamic party , they only got 40% of the votes , while the rest 60% are hardcore secularists not to mention that 37% of the votes were useless since they were dispersed among many small parties , AL-nahdha barely represents 10% of the Tunisian population .


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## Al-Yasa (Nov 9, 2011)

its like they are murdering anyone are they

FFS

let them do wat they want.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 9, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Yes, please cut off your largest revenue stream, you're much less dangerous that way and the natural anthitetical lashback against their fuckup will hopefully end the Islamists for a generation.



imo, Egypt's already-collapsing economy (which would go into the stone age if this thing came to be) would only benefit the Islamists. Egyptian media would blame the US, Jews, Israel, CIA, Imperialism, etc. and they'd gain even more popularity.


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## Zaru (Nov 9, 2011)

-= Ziggy Stardust =- said:


> I live in Scotland, Glasgow( I doubt that your alcohol consumption is considered high by comparison) and I am a dental student(not the most exciting thing but meh), just because you have a few anecdotes does not make it true.



Oh, we're 7th place of the world in recorded alcohol consumption going by  chart. Scotland isn't mentioned independently from the UK but I doubt it's so significantly higher. 
But that's besides the point - my point is that oral cancer is pretty much a "1 in 10000" thing. If you're already drinking so much that the consumption increases your cancer risk, you're likely to suffer from much worse issues than a miniscule chance of cancer.



Megaharrison said:


> imo, Egypt's already-collapsing economy (which would go into the stone age if this thing came to be) would only benefit the Islamists. Egyptian media would blame the US, Jews, Israel, CIA, Imperialism, etc. and they'd gain even more popularity.



How dare the west not give us all their tourist money anymore!


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## Xion (Nov 9, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> I hope that alcohol is completely abolished. Alcohol should be abolished anyway it's no different than any other drug.



If you and everybody like you wants their own nation. Make it, call it "Loserville," and let the rest of us party without restrictions caused by your ideals of right and wrong.

Kthxbai


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## whatuwan (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm fine with them banning alcohol, but banning bikinis is just...


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## Mintaka (Nov 9, 2011)

Oh boy, they fight for freedom from oppression only to be oppressed anew...


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Nov 9, 2011)

So DragonFist5 is saying he supports Shiara Law, saying the exact same things SagemodePrinz says about women, AND is supporting these actions? Yeah...really trying to differentiate yourself from him...


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## Oil Can (Nov 10, 2011)

Xion said:


> If you and everybody like you wants their own nation. Make it, call it "Loserville," and let the rest of us party without restrictions caused by your ideals of right and wrong.
> 
> Kthxbai



I want to party with you. Bet I can do more shots!!!!


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## Xion (Nov 10, 2011)

Ehandz said:


> I want to party with you. Bet I can do more shots!!!!



I take like five shots, have like six beers, a couple mg of a benzo, and maybe smoke a bit of green and still have room left over.  Alcohol doesn't seem to do much to me alone anymore. The last time I had a real hangover was one of my first experiences with alcohol, though I vomited a few times in Boston. 

But hellz yeah you can try to do more shots! I like competition! 

Sadly, looks like Egypt will become the next lame country in the Middle East, as if conservative Islam wasn't already the most fun-oriented religion in the world.


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## BillionYearsAgo (Nov 10, 2011)

Mael said:


> Look man...you can ban the booze, but I'm quite upset at this bikini ban.
> 
> Egypt has fine women and you're depriving us all.  Shame on you.



They ban bikinis to control the behavior of women. 


As for the OP, I could never really understand people welcoming unnecessary  restrictions placed upon them by their government. Even more so if it's for the "god wills so" reasons. Especially if tourism is a big export in Egypt. Less tourism=poorer Egypt.


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## Mider T (Nov 10, 2011)

Never shall they close Sharm!  Free Economic Zone the place!


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## Oil Can (Nov 10, 2011)

Xion said:


> I take like five shots, have like six beers, a couple mg of a benzo, and maybe smoke a bit of green and still have room left over.  Alcohol doesn't seem to do much to me alone anymore. The last time I had a real hangover was one of my first experiences with alcohol, though I vomited a few times in Boston.
> 
> But hellz yeah you can try to do more shots! I like competition!



Hmm... Can't say I've ever done the benzo thing and the last time I mixed alcohol and green I woke up in the hospital. I'd had a ton to drink prior to this though. It was the kind of night where I stopped keeping track and started taking swigs of Jack Daniels from the bottle. Not the wisest of decisions.

My record is 13 shots of Captain Morgans in about a 1.5 hour period. 

I had just been dumped and did not really take the whole thing well. I think it was on a Tuesday. I never drink on weekdays.

I remember very little from that night though apparently I destroyed all of the newspaper containers (you know what I'm talking about) outside the local diner and am now banned from the pizza joint next door. 

I woke up on the couch naked. Apparently (again I don't remember this well) I didn't want to get puke on my clothes so I took them all off and then ran into the bathroom. In this order. This was not the first time this happened 0_0. Also the hangover lasted almost 2 days. It was positively epic. I mean there's so much sugar in spiced rum that it amplifies hangovers a lot but imagine throwing up for a good hour before passing out. No water what-so-ever plus the alcohol withdrawal. It felt like someone had cut a hole in my forehead and literally fucked my brains in. Needless to say, I skipped classes the next two days and probably spent the next 32 hours or so alternately crying and shivering.

My roommates were amused. 

That night was kind of an anomaly though. Normally, I can do a good 7 or 8 shots before completely blacking out. Which I don't recommend for all you kids out there. I can't really factor in beer because unless I'm chugging I drink beer incredibly slowly. 

Anyway, tl;dr: America is awesome because it encourages heavy drinking and also ITS ON BIATCH!!!!!!


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

This can only be a good thing.

Seductive clothing only invites rape. Alcohol only invites drunken and disorderly conduct. Putting the two together promotes mass-rape.

Really this legislation is anti-rape. How can you not vote for that?


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## Karsh (Nov 10, 2011)

Well that would be a pity, I would like to return to Egypt some day for vacation, the coral reefs and wildlife are amazing, it was fun. Except for the creepy guys who stalk you.



CrazyMoronX said:


> This can only be a good thing.
> 
> Seductive clothing only invites rape. Alcohol only invites drunken and disorderly conduct. Putting the two together promotes mass-rape.
> 
> Really this legislation is anti-rape. How can you not vote for that?



From what I gather from your posts, wouldn't this legislation be a set back for your possibilities?


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 10, 2011)

Karsh said:


> Well that would be a pity, I would like to return to Egypt some day for vacation, the coral reefs and wildlife are amazing, it was fun. Except for the creepy guys who stalk you.



Well, according them it's a woman's fault if the man's sexual desires override his sense of reason...


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## CrazyMoronX (Nov 10, 2011)

Karsh said:


> Well that would be a pity, I would like to return to Egypt some day for vacation, the coral reefs and wildlife are amazing, it was fun. Except for the creepy guys who stalk you.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I gather from your posts, wouldn't this legislation be a set back for your possibilities?



Are you insinuating that I am a rapist?


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## LadyTenTen (Nov 10, 2011)

*“When I go to the beach I don’t want to see nudity.”*



It's the only reason some guys go to the beach, you know? XD


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## Karsh (Nov 10, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well, according them it's a woman's fault if the man's sexual desires override his sense of reason...



Yes I know.
Still doesn't make any sense for many reasons, as if stealing something is justified just because stuff was just lying around the shop and nobody was looking.
It's just been convenient to control women in such a way instead of giving men responsibility to their thoughts and actions.

They don't have much to gain from losing their toursits either.



CrazyMoronX said:


> Are you insinuating that I am a rapist?



not that no, I was just joking anyway


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 13, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> Regardless, doesn't change the fact that Mubarak at least had an economic mind despite being one cruel dictator. Unlike the Brotherhood, he doesn't try to ruin the country by banning the main source of income.



An Economic mind LOL Are you seriously suggesting that the billions of dollars which he stole were for the good of the country?? Like I've said before he sold Israel gas a at a very low price *so that he himself would profit.*

The Muslim brotherhood doesn't want to ban tourism. By the way unlike Mubarak the brotherhood don't kill 1000+ peaceful protestors, they don't make a profit by undercharging zionist for gas, they don't suck Israel's dick nor do they support dictatorships. 



> First off, it's a no-brainer that Egypt's population is one of the most fanatic. The majority of the population is Muslim, so no surprise they would support an Islamic party. Same to Lybia and Tunisia, their population is Muslim. But just because many people support a certain movement, doesn't make it perfect.
> 
> Take Germany for example. Many, MANY people during 1932/33 supported Hitler's movement. Did this make his ideology any better? No.



Are you seriously comparing Islam to a psychotic mass murderer named Hitler. 



xenopyre said:


> Again Tunisia didn't elect an Islamic party , they only got 40% of the votes , while the rest 60% are hardcore secularists not to mention that 37% of the votes were useless since they were dispersed among many small parties , AL-nahdha barely represents 10% of the Tunisian population .



Actually it's 42%. By the way you should stop lumping the other parties as *one* secular party since each party has their own views. Some parties are left while others are more at the center, since Alnahda is the party with the most votes they will be forming a coalition. If your from the UK or followed the last general elections you would know that even in a coalition the major party still dominates, as seen in the Conservative/LibDem coalition. 



Mael said:


> Shame on you, Egypt.



The new Egypt wants to attract sensible, civilized tourist who are willing to respect their country's religion & culture. By the way there are plenty of nude beaches around the world. There's absolutely no reason for you to go to a Muslim country if you just want to stare at naked chicks all day long.


----------



## Mael (Nov 13, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> The new Egypt wants to attract sensible, civilized tourist who are willing to respect their country's religion & culture. By the way there are plenty of nude beaches around the world. There's absolutely no reason for you to go to a Muslim country if you just want to stare at naked chicks all day long.



Could you be more stupid with this logic, DragonModeprinz?  And also, alcohol, junior?  You realize alcohol can also be of a civilized sort like in a Bordeaux region or Napa Valley.  I love how the Muslim Brotherhood just thinks it's public drunkenness or a frat party.

Bikinis =/= nudity, FYI.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 13, 2011)

Mael said:


> Could you be more stupid with this logic, DragonModeprinz?  And also, alcohol, junior?  You realize alcohol can also be of a civilized sort like in a Bordeaux region or Napa Valley.  I love how the Muslim Brotherhood just thinks it's public drunkenness or a frat party.
> 
> Bikinis =/= nudity, FYI.



The brotherhood doesn't need a bunch of drunk university students disturbing their way of life. Nor do they want middle aged alcoholic men breaking into cars in the early hours of the morning. Like I said if you have anything against such logical views I'd advise you to go somewhere else. Like Vegas!

Yes according to Islamic teachings not covering the whole body (except for the hands, face and feet) is seen as nudity.


----------



## Yachiru (Nov 13, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> An Economic mind LOL Are you seriously suggesting that the billions of dollars which he stole were for the good of the country?? Like I've said before he sold Israel gas a at a very low price *so that he himself would profit.*
> 
> The Muslim brotherhood doesn't want to ban tourism. By the way unlike Mubarak the brotherhood don't kill 1000+ peaceful protestors, they don't make a profit by undercharging zionist for gas, they don't suck Israel's dick nor do they support dictatorships.



With every consideration to his exploiting agenda, the Muslim Brotherhood ruling in Egypt is the worst-case scenario that could happen right now in terms of some peace and quiet in the ME. Not only do their restrictions affect the Egyptian economy, but they would also isolate themselves like Iran does. 

Israel and Egypt had (and still have) a treaty. I don't know where you get the impression of Mubarak sucking Israel's dick from.




> Are you seriously comparing Islam to a psychotic mass murderer named Hitler.



Hitler actually complemented your religion.. and to go even deeper, the Arabs were one of the major sources of help regarding the Holocaust and constructing the Nazi war machines.




DragonFist5 said:


> The brotherhood doesn't need a bunch of drunk university students disturbing their way of life. Nor do they want middle aged alcoholic men breaking into cars in the early hours of the morning. Like I said if you have anything against such *logical* views I'd advise you to go somewhere else. Like Vegas!



Yeah, because anyone who casually drinks is a drunken bastard, right 
Your views are anything but logical. To get scientific, drinks such as Sake, wine and beer are beneficial to your health in little portions. Sake is good for your skin, wine has anti-oxidants and beer has other good benefits.
Again, I don't understand how someone drinking equals alcoholic.




> Yes according to Islamic teachings not covering the whole body (except, face for the hands and feet) is seen as nudity.



Which proves again: Islam is anything but logical. It doesn't have any common sense.


----------



## xenopyre (Nov 13, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Actually it's 42%. By the way you should stop lumping the other parties as *one* secular party since each party has their own views. Some parties are left while others are more at the center, since Alnahda is the party with the most votes they will be forming a coalition. If your from the UK or followed the last general elections you would know that even in a coalition the major party still dominates, as seen in the Conservative/LibDem coalition.


no it's 41% of the seats but they got 39.72% of the votes , I'm not from the UK I'm from Tunisia , and yes the other parties differ ideologically and some of them have bad blood against some of the parties  but if there is one thing they agree upon , is secularism , also Al nahdha  despite being the single party with the most votes it is not the strongest current of thought so if any thing it will succumb sooner or later to pressure from the other parties , and actually Al-Nahda renounced today on one of its major demands aka parliamentary system in favor for the presidential system  since most of the other parties were for it .


----------



## Mael (Nov 13, 2011)

Scharlachrot said:


> I'm all for barring alcohol.



Are you even of age?

If not, be quiet.


----------



## Mintaka (Nov 13, 2011)

> Yes according to Islamic teachings not covering the whole body (except for the hands, face and feet) is seen as nudity.]


And you wonder why we call it a backwards and frankly outdated ideology?


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Nov 13, 2011)

Obviously the solution is to move to partially transparent monokinis.


----------



## Lina Inverse (Nov 13, 2011)

and if that doesn't work

partially transparent catsuits


----------



## Tion (Nov 13, 2011)

This is is why Egypt will be forever socially awkward mumbling in the corner about the fine yet turbulent weather and the nice lighting in the room at international gatherings.

No alcohol.


----------



## Oil Can (Nov 13, 2011)

Alcoholism is highly underrated.


----------



## Mathias124 (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> No. there would certainly be private beaches for women and Islamic swimwear would also be sold:



FUCK THATS FUNNY


----------



## dummy plug (Nov 14, 2011)

ban alcohol all they want but not bikinis and the ladies who wear them


----------



## Last of the Arrancar (Nov 14, 2011)

I guess no sunholiday to Sharm el Sheik next summer


----------



## Thor (Nov 14, 2011)

If I was a member of an inherently homosexual religion I would want Bikini's banned too.


----------



## zuul (Nov 14, 2011)

I have no problem with that.

I don't drink alcohol and I have nothing against wearing a granny onepiece.


Now it would be cool of them to ban nuthuggers as well, I really hate when men put their junks on display it's absolutely disgusting.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Yachiru said:


> With every consideration to his exploiting agenda, the Muslim Brotherhood ruling in Egypt is the worst-case scenario that could happen right now in terms of some peace and quiet in the ME. Not only do their restrictions affect the Egyptian economy, but they would also isolate themselves like Iran does.



The Egyptian economy will flourish no matter who wins the election since money will be invested in improving the country instead of it being stored in a 70 year old and his two sons bank accounts. The Muslim brotherhood isn't putting an end to tourism, they're just changing their target audience.

By the way here are the views of the brotherhood:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> *Foundations and starting points*
> 
> 
> 
> ...









> Israel and Egypt had (and still have) a treaty. I don't know where you get the impression of Mubarak sucking Israel's dick from.



You mean Israel and Mubarak had a treaty?? And yes, blocking food and clothing from entering Gaza, selling them cheap gas, and maintaining a peace treaty with them, even though the majority of Egyptians are against this illegitimate regime occupying Palestine. 




> Hitler actually complemented your religion.. and to go even deeper, the Arabs were one of the major sources of help regarding the Holocaust and constructing the Nazi war machines.



Well that's interesting, maybe there was some hope for him after all. Too bad he never got a chance to convert because if he did the holocaust would have never happened. 

He who kills a soul unless it be (in legal punishment) for murder or for causing disorder and corruption on the earth will be as if he had killed all humankind; and he who saves a life will be as if he had saved the lives of all humankind.
The Qur’an, Al-Ma’idah, 5:32

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Ab Dawd) 

As for the Arabs aiding the Nazis, the only country that I can think of is Iraq, nearly every other country was colonized by the the British and were promised their freedom if they helped the allies. This includes Egypt. You might be referring to Haj Al amin al Huseini who was chosen by the British as mufti of Jerusalem (against the will of the people) and was later elected by a committee as the supreme head. He later betrayed the British and helped Hitler with the holocaust as he was promised the leadership over Palestine if the axis went on to win WW2. By the way nearly all of his recruits were Bosnian, not Arabs. 




> Yeah, because anyone who casually drinks is a drunken bastard, right
> Your views are anything but logical. To get scientific, drinks such as Sake, wine and beer are beneficial to your health in little portions. Sake is good for your skin, wine has anti-oxidants and beer has other good benefits.
> Again, I don't understand how someone drinking equals alcoholic.
> 
> ...



Yes the Qur'an explains how even alcohol has some benefits to it:

They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the *sin of them is greater than their usefulness.* And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect. (219) 

While drinking Alcohol in moderation has some health benefits to it, it can still increase your chances of getting cancer. Some researchers believe that drinking below the drinking limit or not drinking at all could greatly decrease your chances of developing cancer:

Lets also not forget the fact that alcohol can be extremely addictive, can cause family problems and increase the crime rate. 

Even Cannabis in moderation can be beneficial: 



> Medical cannabis refers to the use of parts of the herb cannabis (also referred to as medical marijuana) as a physician-recommended form of medicine or herbal therapy, or to synthetic forms of specific cannabinoids such as THC as a physician-recommended form of medicine. The Cannabis plant from which the cannabis drug is derived has a long history of medicinal use, with evidence dating back to 2,737 BCE.[1] Synthetic cannabinoids, such as Marinol and Cesamet, are available as prescription drugs in some countries. A number of studies, some disputed, claim that medical cannabis relieves symptoms and is helpful in the treatment of many diseases.





Seto Kaiba said:


> Well, according them it's a woman's fault if the man's sexual desires override his sense of reason...



Nope 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EH3zJy_Uq0[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)

Biased video is biased, SageMode5.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> Biased video is biased, SageMode5.



funny, I posted a 10 minutes video and somehow you manged to watch it in less than 2 minutes.


----------



## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> funny, I posted the a 10 minutes video and somehow you manged to watch it in less than 2 minutes.



It's called deductive analysis.

You post in manners similar to Perseverance and Sagemode our Cafe Muslim extremist apologists, plus a video that's a Muslim man arguing for the use of the niqab.  Put two and two together.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> It's called deductive analysis.
> 
> You post in manners similar to Perseverance and Sagemode our Cafe Muslim extremist apologists, plus a video that's a Muslim man arguing for the use of the niqab.  Put two and two together.



In other words you couldn't be bothered to watch the video, so instead your making baseless assumptions by labeling it as biased.


----------



## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> In other words you couldn't be bothered to watch the video, so instead your making baseless assumptions by labeling it as biased.



Actually, funny you should mention that.

I ended up watching it...and I still don't feel like deviating from my position.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> Actually, funny you should mention that.
> 
> I ended up watching it...and I still don't feel like deviating from my position.



Explain to me how the video is biased if you've truly watched it??


----------



## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Explain to me how the video is biased if you've truly watched it??



The man is a Muslim explaining sexuality and women's attire only through his lens.  I mean, why do I need to go further?  He can preach all he wants on the sanctity of a woman's look and to get straying eyes away from him but all that does is remind me of some backwards methodology of punishing the woman for the man's crime/sin.

You're not pulling any wool over my eyes, DragonModePrinz.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> The man is a Muslim explaining sexuality and women's attire only through his lens.  I mean, why do I need to go further?  He can preach all he wants on the sanctity of a woman's look and to get straying eyes away from him but all that does is remind me of some backwards methodology of punishing the woman for the man's crime/sin.
> 
> You're not pulling any wool over my eyes, DragonModePrinz.



Thanks for confirming that you haven't even watched 30 seconds of that video. Seeing as he starts his talk by explaining how the Qur'an speaks of the Hijab for the men before it speaks of the hijab for the women.

By the way he fully supports, no insists that rapist should face the death sentence. So please tell me how you've come to the conclusion that he believes women should be punished??


----------



## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Thanks for confirming that you haven't even watched 30 seconds of that video. Seeing as he starts his talk by explaining how the Qur'an speaks of the Hijab for the men before it speaks of the hijab for the women.
> 
> By the way he fully supports, no insists that rapist should face the death sentence. So please tell me how you've come to the conclusion that he believes women should be punished??



So the fuck what?  Men aren't involved in this Egyptian ruling.  Women are.  He gets to women, so my point stands, genius.  Women are still forced to wear that gaudy and concealing clothing too, many times without choice.

Can you just wank to some more unrealistic anti-Jew scenarios?


----------



## sadated_peon (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> In other words you couldn't be bothered to watch the video, so instead your making baseless assumptions by labeling it as biased.



I not only is it moronic, it even contradicts you. 
He does say that rape is a woman's fault if she is not wearing a Hijab, he gave the example of the twin sisters to prove this. 

It is also moronic because he quotes American rape statistics without an context to other countries and populations. Rape in America is LOW compared to rape in the middle east, the problem is that rape statistics are SO BAD in the middle east because law enforcement can't even track it let alone stop it.


----------



## Bya Bya (Nov 14, 2011)

Wow, what a video. OK, where to start...

First of all, I don't see the reason why he puts such high importance on rape statistics in the other country, except for propaganda. Rapes happen everywhere and certainly they happen in his country too, yet he's totally silent about it. American statistics seem very high because people there are more willing to report rape. In Islamic countries a woman will risk her reputation, marriage and possibly even life if she reports rape. I heard that to prove a rape in Islam you need 2 male witnesses or 4 female witnesses. It's nearly impossible to prove a rape under such law unless you've been raped in the middle of the busy street. From what I've read is that most often rapes are committed by someone who actually knows the victim. So the whole covering yourself, except for the face and palms thing will not in fact prevent a woman from being raped. So this this anti-rape strategy that Islam proposes seems quite ineffective. And even though it's ineffective Muslim clerics still prescribe the same old rape-prevention method that's like centuries old even in this day.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Mael said:


> So the fuck what?  Men aren't involved in this Egyptian ruling.  Women are.  He gets to women, so my point stands, genius.  Women are still forced to wear that gaudy and concealing clothing too, many times without choice.
> 
> Can you just wank to some more unrealistic anti-Jew scenarios?



Men are asked to lower their gaze whenever they see a women as well as dressing modestly in public covering from the navel to the knees. Women are also asked to lower their gaze as well as dressing modestly in public, only exposing their face, hands and feet. Better safe than sorry!

What do Jews have to do with this????


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Nov 14, 2011)

Kind of a silly debate. Obviously when you forcibly separate the sexes and stigmatize sexual relations outside of marriage, you're going to have a lower rape rate. Not to mention (okay this is a guess) but the punishment for rape is probably death in  Islam or some form of disfigurement. 

Obviously if the US had traffic police on every street keeping people from jaywalking, and the punishment for jaywalking is death, there would be a fuckload less jaywalking.  

Or is logic not allowed in these Islam debates?


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> I not only is it moronic, it even contradicts you.
> He does say that rape is a woman's fault if she is not wearing a Hijab, he gave the example of the twin sisters to prove this.
> 
> It is also moronic because he quotes American rape statistics without an context to other countries and populations. Rape in America is LOW compared to rape in the middle east, the problem is that rape statistics are SO BAD in the middle east because law enforcement can't even track it let alone stop it.



He said that a women who doesn't wear the hijab is inviting rape, this doesn't mean that the rapist won't be punished. This is kind of like carelessly leaving your bike outside knowing that someone could come and steal it

Please show me the rape statistics in an Islamic country which follow shariah law.



Bya Bya said:


> Wow, what a video. OK, where to start...
> 
> First of all, I don't see the reason why he puts such high importance on rape statistics in the other country, except for propaganda. Rapes happen everywhere and certainly they happen in his country too, yet he's totally silent about it. American statistics seem very high because people there are more willing to report rape. In Islamic countries a woman will risk her reputation, marriage and possibly even life if she reports rape. I heard that to prove a rape in Islam you need 2 male witnesses or 4 female witnesses. It's nearly impossible to prove a rape under such law unless you've been raped in the middle of the busy street. From what I've read is that most often rapes are committed by someone who actually knows the victim. So the whole covering yourself, except for the face and palms thing will not in fact prevent a woman from being raped. So this this anti-rape strategy that Islam proposes seems quite ineffective. And even though it's ineffective Muslim clerics still prescribe the same old rape-prevention method that's like centuries old even in this day.



Nowhere in Shariah law does it state that women need 4 witnesses to prove rape. Those "four witnesses" are actually needed to accuse a woman of committing adultery (voluntary sex outside of marriage). This is in order to prevent a wrongful punishment, because people accused of committing adultery are punished in Islam. Nothing to do with rape.

"And those who accuse chaste women (of adultery) and then do not produce four witnesses — lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after." [Quran 24:4]

As far as rape goes:



> “Narrated Wa’il ibn Hujr: “When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (P) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered [raped] her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That [man] did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and *seized the man* whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.
> 
> She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (P).
> 
> ...



It should also be noted that it was related by Ibn Abi Shaybah through T?riq b. Shahab that a woman accused with adultery was taken to Caliph `Umar. The woman pleaded that she was asleep and woke up to find the man over her. `Umar released the woman.5

Based on the above sayings of the Prophet (P) and the events associated with it, the jurist Ibn Qudamah had stated as follows in his book al-Mughn?:



> “If a woman becomes pregnant without having a husband or a master, she may not be punished and, in stead, she should be asked about it, if she claimed that she was coerced into it or that she committed adultery under dubious circumstances, or if she simply does not confess adultery then she will not be punished. This is the saying of Abu Han?fah and al-Sh?fi`?, because she may be pregnant as a result of a forceful intercourse or dubious circumstances. Punishment will be abandoned in case suspicion exists. It is well known that a woman could become pregnant without committing the real intercourse. The woman may become pregnant if sperm is manually inserted into her vagina. This would explain how a virgin becomes pregnant


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

You might also want to watch this YouTube video, since he explains that 4 witnesses are not required for proving rape.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-9-qDqnswA[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## sadated_peon (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:
			
		

> He said that a women who doesn't wear the hijab is inviting rape, this doesn't mean that the rapist won't be punished. This is kind of like carelessly leaving your bike outside knowing that someone could come and steal it


So then why did you have a problem with Seto Kaiba who said it was the woman's fault. You obviously agree with this. 



			
				DragonFist5 said:
			
		

> Please show me the rape statistics in an Islamic country which follow shariah law.


I guess you didn't bother to read my post.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> So then why did you have a problem with Seto Kaiba who said it was the woman's fault. You obviously agree with this.



It's the women's fault in the same sense that it would be your fault if you left your bike parked outside. It's called being careless. 




> I guess you didn't bother to read my post.



So you don't have any evidence to prove this BS


----------



## Bya Bya (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> He said that a women who doesn't wear the hijab is inviting rape, this doesn't mean that the rapist won't be punished. This is kind of like carelessly leaving your bike outside knowing that someone could come and steal it
> 
> Please show me the rape statistics in an Islamic country which follow shariah law.
> 
> ...



Alright, I guess I was wrong about the 4 witnesses then. I've read about it some time ago but looks like the information wasn't exactly accurate. Still doesn't prove that covering yourself from head to toe will actually prevent rape. Which my post was mostly about.

But out of curiosity, how do you prove a rape in Islam then?

Also on this note, I don't quite understand the penalty for rape in Islam:



> ?If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.?



It seems to be punishing the victim rather than the criminal. I mean she would be basically forced to live with her rapist for the rest of her life. That's kind of harsh. Laws like these just don't make Islam very appealing and its laws sensible.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

Bya Bya said:


> Alright, I guess I was wrong about the 4 witnesses then. I've read about it some time ago but looks like the information wasn't exactly accurate. Still doesn't prove that covering yourself from head to toe will actually prevent rape. Which my post was mostly about.
> 
> But out of curiosity, how do you prove a rape in Islam then?



4 witnesses are used in some countries as proof but as shown in my earlier posts it isn't necessary. If you've watched the last video  I posted about DNA testing, which can also be used in this day and age to prove rape. 

As for covering up, it eliminates not only rape but also sexual harassment, fornication and adultery. I'm aware that it won't bring rape down to 0 but it should decrease even, if it only decreases by 1%. And yes 9 rapes are far better than 10 rapes. 



> Also on this note, I don't quite understand the penalty for rape in Islam:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to be punishing the victim rather than the criminal. I mean she would be basically forced to live with her rapist for the rest of her life. That's kind of harsh. Laws like these just don't make Islam very appealing and its laws sensible.



That quote is from the bible Deuteronomy 22:28-29

The bible which we have today isn't the same as the injeel which was revealed to the prophet Isa (Jesus). Parts of it is the word of Allah but unlike the Qur'an man have added their own thoughts to it throughout the years.


----------



## sadated_peon (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> It's the women's fault in the same sense that it would be your fault if you left your bike parked outside. It's called being careless.


So once again, you agree with the statement so why did you bother saying "nope"



DragonFist5 said:


> So you don't have any evidence to prove this BS






> JEDDAH: Many families are still not reporting sexual assaults of their family members for fear of being stigmatized.
> 
> An ongoing story about the serial Jeddah rapist has sparked a debate about the importance of reporting such attacks instead of covering them up.






> Perhaps this was a bit of male bonding, of young guys showing off to the foreigners. But the tone was casual, the looks casual, the whole conversation amazingly casual. The Egyptian woman asked how he would treat us if we had not been introduced by our friend.
> 
> ?What would you do if we were with someone else?? she asked.
> 
> ...







> Saudi Arabia's Ministry of Justice is defending a sentence of 200 lashes for the victim of a gang rape, punished because she was in the car of a male who wasn't a relative when the two were attacked.




Most, middle eastern countries don't even accept the idea of marital rape.


----------



## freestylez (Nov 14, 2011)

You choose 



or





You shouldn't expect much from third world trash and their LOL religion


----------



## Bya Bya (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> 4 witnesses are used in some countries as proof but as shown in my earlier posts it isn't necessary. If you've watched the last video  I posted about DNA testing, which can also be used in this day and age to prove rape.
> 
> As for covering up, it eliminates not only rape but also sexual harassment, fornication and adultery. I'm aware that it won't bring rape down to 0 but it should decrease even, if it only decreases by 1%. And yes 9 rapes are far better than 10 rapes.


I did watch it just now and the thing is that he's not particularly  clear on whether he thinks DNA testing should be necessary to prove anything. He went on about how asking someone for DNA evidence is already like accusing them. Also I can't understand like half the things he says, whether it's because he speaks in the other language or the words are mispronounced. In his previous video his words are more clear. Either way, I'm not convinced by that video because he doesn't seem to be very firm and I can't see him having a clear, definite opinion. It's like he's beating around the bush. Which just made me face-palm. Present me something written on how a woman can prove that she's been raped in Islam. Because the guy in the video hardly made any sense to me. 

Also 1 out of 10 is 10%. You are claiming that covering more of woman's body should prevent rape, even by little bit like 1%. I'm just still not buying how? In the society where all women are covered in Niqab rapes still happen. And the statistics are either unknown or a lot of them go unreported, because it's nearly impossible to prove rape under Sharia( and I haven't been convinced yet that it's possible). 



> That quote is from the bible Deuteronomy 22:28-29
> 
> The bible which we have today isn't the same as the injeel which was revealed to the prophet Isa (Jesus). Parts of it is the word of Allah but unlike the Qur'an man have added their own thoughts to it throughout the years.


And so it is! I found it on the Islamic website and must have misread it as being from the Koran. However, that makes me very happy that we don't base our laws on the exact religious text. And I think Muslims shouldn't either.


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5: You want alcohol banned right? 

Please refer to the prohibition in the USA during the 1920s.


----------



## DragonFist5 (Nov 14, 2011)

sadated_peon said:


> So once again, you agree with the statement so why did you bother saying "nope"



I disagreed with the statement because it implied that the women is mostly to blame and that the man isn't expected to control themselves. 





> Most, middle eastern countries don't even accept the idea of marital rape.



The first link was the only link worth posting since the last 2 are irrelevant. AS for the first website their seems to be some truth to what your saying but you can't prove to me that if all the cases of rape were being reported it would match the number of rapes in the US. Keep in mind that most of the people who don't report rape in the ME are at faults themselves as shown in your 3rd link. A women shouldn't be in a car with a non mahram. The second link which you posted was about a group of teenagers who have absolutely no knowledge of Islam.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2011)

This is all just fate preparing the second coming of Al Capone....


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## Mael (Nov 14, 2011)




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## Akatora (Nov 14, 2011)

The less political influence relligion has the better


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Nov 14, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> It's the women's fault in the same sense that it would be your fault if you left your bike parked outside. It's called being careless.



You're a sexist, though not in the way you imagine that I mean.

Do you know the annoying kind of feminist claiming that all men are rapists and so on? You know the one? Right?

That's YOU.

Your entire argument is based on the notion that men will rape any women, and to prevent this women should cover themselves to prevent themselves from being raped.

This is based on the assumption that women are raped because they're not covering themselves properly. This is obviously wrong because that should indicate that the places in the world with the least amount of rape and sex crime would be the middle east. Allow me to lol.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 14, 2011)

It's the same old story that we've all heard and seen before. You can't give a little or eventually it will lead to demands of a lot. The saying has all the more weight when it comes to anything in politics and the non-secular trying to force its way in. Be careful Egypt!


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## Corvida (Nov 15, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> He said that a women who doesn't wear the hijab is inviting rape, this doesn't mean that the rapist won't be punished. This is kind of like carelessly leaving *your bike *outside knowing that someone could come and steal it



WEEEEEE, FREE RIDE!!!!

 This is a shameful mentality. Like post war Spain,Treating women as domestic animals that canot get "on the loose" for their own good and safety.
As old Spanairds said, women, better with a broken leg.


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## sadated_peon (Nov 15, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> I disagreed with the statement because it implied that the women is mostly to blame and that the man isn't expected to control themselves.


If men are expected to control themselves how are woman hold any fault in the situation. 



DragonFist5 said:


> The first link was the only link worth posting since the last 2 are irrelevant. AS for the first website their seems to be some truth to what your saying but you can't prove to me that if all the cases of rape were being reported it would match the number of rapes in the US. Keep in mind that most of the people who don't report rape in the ME are at faults themselves as shown in your 3rd link. A women shouldn't be in a car with a non mahram. The second link which you posted was about a group of teenagers who have absolutely no knowledge of Islam.


I know for a fact that travel advisory warning for people going to the middle east specifically state that women should never go out alone, that they should always go out with a guardian and not such restriction is needed in the western world. 

Next, a woman being at fault for going out with people not in her family is FUCKING INSANE and indicative of primitive and backwards culture that should have died out long ago. 

The 3rd link was about the mindset of the average male teenager in SA, and his attitude towards rape. 

They all speak to a single fact, that middle eastern countries with their harsh punishments, and covered up woman have a LARGER PROBLEM WITH RAPE than western countries.


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## DragonFist5 (Nov 15, 2011)

Bya Bya said:


> I did watch it just now and the thing is that he's not particularly  clear on whether he thinks DNA testing should be necessary to prove anything. He went on about how asking someone for DNA evidence is already like accusing them. Also I can't understand like half the things he says, whether it's because he speaks in the other language or the words are mispronounced. In his previous video his words are more clear. Either way, I'm not convinced by that video because he doesn't seem to be very firm and I can't see him having a clear, definite opinion. It's like he's beating around the bush. Which just made me face-palm. Present me something written on how a woman can prove that she's been raped in Islam. Because the guy in the video hardly made any sense to me.



He was asked about 2 different things, the first question was if DNA testing can be used as evidence for adultery. The second question was if DNA testing could be used as evidence for rape. His answer was that you can't force a couple into taking a DNA test without having 4 witnesses, this is for adultery. He then moved on to rape and said that in cases of rape you do not need 4 witnesses as the women herself is taken as a witness and therefore other means of evidence including DNA testing may be used. 

There's a hadith which I've provided in the last post were a women falsely accuses a man of rape. The prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asks for the man to be brought to him, and is about to pass judgement (without 4 witnesses) before the real rapists confesses to the crime.  

Another hadith was about a women who was being tried for adultery. She argued her case to the Calipha Omar ibn al khattab, that she woke up with the man on top of her so she was released. 



> Also 1 out of 10 is 10%. You are claiming that covering more of woman's body should prevent rape, even by little bit like 1%. I'm just still not buying how? In the society where all women are covered in Niqab rapes still happen. And the statistics are either unknown or a lot of them go unreported, because it's nearly impossible to prove rape under Sharia( and I haven't been convinced yet that it's possible).



The Hijab isn't a rape proof vest i.e it doesn't eliminate the chance of rape it only reduces it. It's quite simple a group of gangsters are more likely to go after a women wearing a bikini then one wearing the Hijab.

By the way I think that this post sums it up pretty well: 



Shinigami Perv said:


> Kind of a silly debate. Obviously when you forcibly separate the sexes and stigmatize sexual relations outside of marriage, you're going to have a lower rape rate. Not to mention (okay this is a guess) but the punishment for rape is probably death in  Islam or some form of disfigurement.
> 
> Obviously if the US had traffic police on every street keeping people from jaywalking, and the punishment for jaywalking is death, there would be a fuckload less jaywalking.
> 
> Or is logic not allowed in these Islam debates?



The only women that don't report rape are those who are at faults themselves i.e they don't follow Islam properly. What makes proving rape so much harder under shariah law??



> And so it is! I found it on the Islamic website and must have misread it as being from the Koran. However, that makes me very happy that we don't base our laws on the exact religious text. And I think Muslims shouldn't either



You shouldn't be basing your laws according to the bible anyway since it isn't the final and complete word of Allah. The Qur'an is the final word of Allah which is intended to be passed on to the whole of humanity. 



sadated_peon said:


> If men are expected to control themselves how are woman hold any fault in the situation.



Because they're not following the Islamic dress code. 




> I know for a fact that travel advisory warning for people going to the middle east specifically state that women should never go out alone, that they should always go out with a guardian and not such restriction is needed in the western world.



I know for a fact that I have been to multiple middle eastern countries this includes Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and Bahrain and no such thing was ever said to me. I also have female cousins who lived in Saudi and they were never restricted from traveling withing city limits without a man accompanying them. I've also been to Saudi when I was 15 and my mother and sister used to travel outside on their own, non of them were attacked. 



> Next, a woman being at fault for going out with people not in her family is FUCKING INSANE and indicative of primitive and backwards culture that should have died out long ago.



A man and a women who aren't closely related can not remain in one place *by themselves.*



> The 3rd link was about the mindset of the average male teenager in SA, and his attitude towards rape.



Yes one article has proven that the average male teenager in KSA is a rapist. sarcasm// Do you have any tables or graphs showing that the average Saudi teenager is a potential rapist?? By the way hanging around with a non mahram does not result in the same punishment as raping someone.



> They all speak to a single fact, that middle eastern countries with their harsh punishments, and covered up woman have a LARGER PROBLEM WITH RAPE than western countries.



No they don't. unless you have a big chart to prove it. I could also link you to websites on rape cases in western countries. These problems *mostly* occur when women don't follow Islam properly.



Corvida said:


> WEEEEEE, FREE RIDE!!!!
> 
> This is a shameful mentality. Like post war Spain,Treating women as domestic animals that canot get "on the loose" for their own good and safety.
> As old Spanairds said, women, better with a broken leg.



Erm.. These laws protect women from being treated like domestic animals. 



Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> You're a sexist, though not in the way you imagine that I mean.
> 
> Do you know the annoying kind of feminist claiming that all men are rapists and so on? You know the one? Right?
> 
> ...



I being a man myself know how the male brain function. Those who do not follow the teaching of Allah and stay away from sins could turn into sexual harassers or even rapists. This is why the Qur'an states that whenever a man looks at a women he should lower his gaze and guard his modesty.




freestylez said:


> You choose
> 
> You shouldn't expect much from third world trash and their LOL religion



Please read:



DragonFist5 said:


> The new Egypt wants to attract sensible, civilized tourist who are willing to respect their country's religion & culture. By the way there are plenty of nude beaches around the world. There's absolutely no reason for you to go to a Muslim country if you just want to stare at naked chicks all day long.


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## steveht93 (Nov 15, 2011)

So much for freedom! I say Muslim or not Muslim,girls should be allowed to wear whatever they want as long as what she is wearing does not violate other people's rights or annoy people morally. And if a women wants to obey god or not,then that is her choice not mine. Muslim brotherhood should take a chill pill.


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## Corvida (Nov 15, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> Erm.. These laws protect women from being treated like domestic animals.



No, this repugnant, this mentality of shame, this  "it?s the woman fault for parading herself without the bike lock, so free ride"-or the more insidious-"we protect your modesty from us, hungry horny wolves".this  is what makes of women a pack of domesticated cattle, never allowed to "go on the loose"-you should invent a traffic sign with a unveiled woman surrounded by a red circle, same as we paint a deer or a cow-"danger, loose women", and can very easily end in extreme cases of  ultimately  denying women of  any public personality-burkas, and aberrations like that, ending in disguising women as shapeless bundles or table cloths .This is not the first time I have to read- You dont follow the  Islamic dress code? Then, dont complain if you get raped, that?s what you get for go whoring.
 Or that thing  you say, that "A man and a woman *who aren't closely related *can not remain in one place by themselves." is an straight rule of female stabulation, the old Spanish rule of "women, leg broken and at home, please".

It?s like going a centuries back in time with medieval priestly anxiety for  strict separations of the sexes and  the old male tendency of having the public espace all for themselves, or like the old Spanish joke of men parading near the first streetcars drooling  at the sight of a female ankle when a woman climbed to the stairs.


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## Mael (Nov 15, 2011)

Nah to DragonSageFist, men aren't accountable for their actions despite the Quran, so the woman has to "protect" herself by having laws impede her progress.


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## Bya Bya (Nov 15, 2011)

DragonFist5 said:


> He was asked about 2 different things, the first question was if DNA testing can be used as evidence for adultery. The second question was if DNA testing could be used as evidence for rape. His answer was that you can't force a couple into taking a DNA test without having 4 witnesses, this is for adultery. He then moved on to rape and said that in cases of rape you do not need 4 witnesses as the women herself is taken as a witness and therefore other means of evidence including DNA testing may be used.


Thanks for trying to explain what he was saying but since whatever he's saying is so damn unclear to me, I can't really take your word on this since I like to be able to hear things being said clearly without having someone interpreting it. Also what one religious leader says doesn't stand true for how all Sharia law countries will deal with it. This is just his opinion. And you know what opinions are like... There's no guarantee that Sharia governments will share it. And frankly speaking I haven't heard of many Muslim women having success proving rape. 



> There's a hadith which I've provided in the last post were a women falsely accuses a man of rape. The prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asks for the man to be brought to him, and is about to pass judgement (without 4 witnesses) before the real rapists confesses to the crime.
> 
> Another hadith was about a women who was being tried for adultery. She argued her case to the Calipha Omar ibn al khattab, that she woke up with the man on top of her so she was released.



Those cases, they way they were handled, seem very weak to me as a proof of anything. They don't demonstrate any clever investigation, and might as well be considered off topic. Here I will give you the reason why those cases can't be taken seriously by me:

The first case: The real rapist confessed! By himself, just like that. Seems hardly believable at all. As it's not in the rapist's interest to confess because he can get killed for it. So basically there is no sense in his actions. And Muhammad only solved the case because of confession. And I don't think many rapists voluntary confess for no reason at all. For this reason I just can't accept this as an effective way for a woman to prove that she's been raped. The case has no relation to the issue and is rather off topic. 

Second case: The judge made his decision purely of the testimony of the woman. Shouldn't he listen to both people? There is no information on what the accused man had said in his defense. It's pretty clear that the judge had made his decision based on his intuition and gut feeling. And just because that particular woman got lucky with a judge believing her story doesn't indicate at all to me that there exists a way for a woman to prove that she's been raped under Islamic law.


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## sadated_peon (Nov 15, 2011)

dragonfist5 said:
			
		

> Because they're not following the Islamic dress code.


Then they are involution of a dress code, which has nothing to do with holding any fault for being raped. 


			
				dragonfist5 said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that I have been to multiple middle eastern countries this includes Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and Bahrain and no such thing was ever said to me. I also have female cousins who lived in Saudi and they were never restricted from traveling withing city limits without a man accompanying them. I've also been to Saudi when I was 15 and my mother and sister used to travel outside on their own, non of them were attacked.


These are standard travel advisor warning that go out to all people going to the country, you can by all means ignore them but your antidotal experience speaks nothing to the actual situation at hand. 

?Unescorted women are vulnerable to sexual harassment and verbal abuse. The Embassy has received increasing reports over the last several months of foreigners being sexually groped in taxis and in public places. Travelers are cautioned to be aware of their surroundings and to be cautious going anywhere with a stranger alone.?


Even Russia is complaining 




			
				dragonfist5 said:
			
		

> A man and a women who aren't closely related can not remain in one place by themselves.


Why the fuck not? What kind of barbaric backwards culture do you live in where this unacceptable? 



			
				dragonfist5 said:
			
		

> Yes one article has proven that the average male teenager in KSA is a rapist. sarcasm// Do you have any tables or graphs showing that the average Saudi teenager is a potential rapist?? By the way hanging around with a non mahram does not result in the same punishment as raping someone.


That?s what the article was about, how the wide spread and commonplace attitude towards rape. 



			
				dragonfist5 said:
			
		

> No they don't. unless you have a big chart to prove it. I could also link you to websites on rape cases in western countries. These problems mostly occur when women don't follow Islam properly.


Lol, you are just ignoring everything I give so why should I bother. I explained the issue with under reported, then gave evidence when you asked for it, now you are wanting a fucking graph?!? 

Rape of woman is more of a problem in middle eastern countries than it is in the west. That you want to deny this fact is not my problem.


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