# Hunter Invasion Squad vs Phantom Troupe



## Saitou Hajime (Apr 28, 2014)

Gon
Killua
Shoot
Knuckle
Morel
Knov

vs

Phinks
Feitan
Bonolev
Shalnark
Shizuku
Kalluto

Who wins?


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## Iwandesu (Apr 29, 2014)

Is this a gauntlet or team fight?
Do we assume standards (bl and 20 meters) ?


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## MusubiKazesaru (Apr 29, 2014)

Invasion Squad is more sabotage specialized, they'd probably do better as a team compared to the Troupe which has a lot more power per fighter.

If we compare them to each character in order. Phinks is around Uvogin level so he should be able to beat Gon. Feitan's Pain Pecker and Rising Sun are a bad combo for Killua, Bonolev could probably take Shoot, I could see Knuckle doing ok against Shalnark unless he gets controlled, Morel would stomp Shizuku, and Knov can take Kalluto fairly easily


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## Lurko (Apr 29, 2014)

Phantom Troupe takes it unless Adult Gon is allowed.


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## tonpa (Apr 30, 2014)

Team Invasion Takes it.


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## Rurouni Seinto (May 3, 2014)

Tbh, the only Ryodan members that strike me as being a match for the invasion team's members are Phinks and Feitan, especially considering Kalluto's pretty much irrelevant to anyone else here. Whilst Feitan's techniques should be powerful enough to beat Gon or Base Killua, the invasion team has Killua's Kanmuru, Knuckle's Nen bank ability and Morel's Deep Purple, which when used with teamwork, can be an incredible challenge. As for teamwork, Knuckle and Shoot should be as much of a good combo as any of the Ryodan members, if not better.
Invasion team should be able to take this.


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## Zuhaitz (May 4, 2014)

In my opinion Morel was the strongest of the invasion group. And he isn't on the level of the 12 Zodiacs. He probably will get close to it if he appears again.

For example, using Hisoka's tier list, Morel would be something like a 70 or maybe a 68. The Ryodan most likely would go from 75 for the weakest to 99 for the strongest bar Danchou. The Royal Guards were also probably somewhere between 85 and 100. So, in my opinion, even the Royal Guards would just be a mid to high tier Ryodans.

So the Ryodans, in my opinion, takes this easily.


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## blueblip (May 4, 2014)

The most interesting match up would be Knuckle vs. Feitan. Feitan's ability requires him to get hurt, but Knuckle's ability prevents that from happening. If Knuckle manages to land even a single hit on Feitan and activate his ability, the biggest threat to the invasion team will get neutralised. That leaves Phinx and Bono as the next biggest threats. Shoot's ability would be useful when dealing with Phinx. That leaves Morel, Gon, and Killua to deal with the rest. Kalluto shouldn't be a problem. Shizuku isn't much of a fighter. Bono remains a big threat though, and his presence tips it in favour of the Ryodan. Backing him up is Shalnark who has a dangerous ability.

Overall, the Ryodanwin because they have bigger threat, while team Invasion lack firpower (and experience) to put the Ryodan down fast enough.


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## Rurouni Seinto (May 4, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> In my opinion Morel was the strongest of the invasion group. And he isn't on the level of the 12 Zodiacs. He probably will get close to it if he appears again.


That's hard to determine, considering the events in the Chimera Ant Arc caused the Hunter Association to consider promoting Morel to a triple star Hunter, beyond that of a few Zodiacs who, whilst impressive enough to be given the rank, could just be extreme experts in their certain field or have great Nen hax rather than having conventionally high power.


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## Zuhaitz (May 4, 2014)

The 12 zodiacs complained about Morel designation for that mission, suggesting that It was because that weak ass was going with Netero that he died in the end.

It was more or less clear that the 12 Zodiacs were significantly more powerful than Morel.

Despite that, I do think that surviving that mission and the experience he got from such a mission will make Morel evolve his Nen and get close if not equal to the power of the weakest of the 12 zodiacs.


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## Rurouni Seinto (May 4, 2014)

Which Zodiacs complained about that again? Depending on who it was, it could mean a lot, as it could simply present a large gap between the double stars (other than Ging) and triple stars if it came from one of the latter.


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## Bungee Gum (May 4, 2014)

Phantom Troupe win. Superior ability, better match-ups. Most of the Hunter Invasion Squad were really what I refer to as utility, they had very little attacking capability, but the most disruption and delaying ability, hence why they were picked. Morels and Knovs abilities are relatively useless against the Phantom Troupe. Morels smoke clones can't damage anyone, and his physical ability alone wouldn't be enough. Knovs is quite useful but I don't see it being put to good use. Picking off the Phantom Troupe would be the best strategy, but you'd have to pick them off, and that would require the ability to defeat them individually after separating them and confusing them. I suppose that wouldn't be too much trouble in and of itself for the Hunter Invasion squad, but it would require you to put some of your best assets on the mission to distract and delay the other Phantom Troupe members. This would require almost everyone due to how strong the Phantom Troupe is. Then the question is, if Knov captures one, how does he defeat them? He doesn't have any highlighted physical abilities besides maybe speed, no other abilities, and little to none help. It's impossible. They just don't have the strength. The reason they were so successful verse the Royal Guards(or not successful), was because they outnumbered them and had actual abilities.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 4, 2014)

Goova said:


> Phantom Troupe win. Superior ability, better match-ups. Most of the Hunter Invasion Squad were really what I refer to as utility, they had very little attacking capability, but the most disruption and delaying ability, hence why they were picked. Morels and Knovs abilities are relatively useless against the Phantom Troupe. Morels smoke clones can't damage anyone, and his physical ability alone wouldn't be enough. Knovs is quite useful but I don't see it being put to good use. Picking off the Phantom Troupe would be the best strategy, but you'd have to pick them off, and that would require the ability to defeat them individually after separating them and confusing them. I suppose that wouldn't be too much trouble in and of itself for the Hunter Invasion squad, but it would require you to put some of your best assets on the mission to distract and delay the other Phantom Troupe members. This would require almost everyone due to how strong the Phantom Troupe is. Then the question is, if Knov captures one, how does he defeat them? He doesn't have any highlighted physical abilities besides maybe speed, no other abilities, and little to none help. It's impossible. They just don't have the strength. The reason they were so successful verse the Royal Guards(or not successful), was because they outnumbered them and had actual abilities.



Knov can teleport their heads off for one


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## Katou (May 4, 2014)

Feitan had to show his Trump card just by Defeating a Captain Ant. . which was supposedly 
the same level as Cheetu and Hagya 

I'd put my chips on Hunter Invasion Squad. .


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## Katou (May 4, 2014)

Hmm I'm still not sure. . 
Since the Physical ability of Cheetu and Hagya were never proven. . since they were Killed without ever proving it . . 

Cheetu has some though . .but it wasn't a fatal attack. . it was only ch.7 Bankruptcy 


Zazan was an Enhancer anyway. .it was pretty understandable that Feitan wasn't able to defeat her in Physical Ability ..and had to resort to Transmutation

but if it were to say they were the same level. .or Zazan was slightly lower. . 

then I will really bet on HIS here


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 4, 2014)

Hagya probably has more of an advantage depending on what he's borrowed. The problem is whether the less-experianced members can reliably take down a Troupe member


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## Saitou Hajime (May 5, 2014)

Rurouni Seinto said:


> Which Zodiacs complained about that again? Depending on who it was, it could mean a lot, as it could simply present a large gap between the double stars (other than Ging) and triple stars if it came from one of the latter.



Dragon asks why Netero didn't call them in for the Chimera Ant crisis, and Tiger adds that it was too important to be entrusted to guys like Morel and Knov.  Dog says that Netero wanted to work solo and that he considered the Zodiacs to be above the kinda work he had Morel and Knov do.


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## Rurouni Seinto (May 5, 2014)

Well if Kanzai was one of the ones who mentioned it, that's a definite sign of All Zodiacs>Morel, considering how Hisoka's ratings seemed to present him as one of the weaker Zodiacs.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 5, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> In my opinion Morel was the strongest of the invasion group. And he isn't on the level of the 12 Zodiacs. He probably will get close to it if he appears again.
> 
> *For example, using Hisoka's tier list, Morel would be something like a 70 or maybe a 68. The Ryodan most likely would go from 75 for the weakest to 99 for the strongest bar Danchou. The Royal Guards were also probably somewhere between 85 and 100. So, in my opinion, even the Royal Guards would just be a mid to high tier Ryodans.
> *
> So the Ryodans, in my opinion, takes this easily.



um no. 

The Royal Guards would eat anyone in the Ryodan alive. 

And Ging+Mister Rat are probably the only ones in the Zodiacs who would not get their shit pushed in by the Royal Guards either.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> um no.
> 
> *The Royal Guards would eat anyone in the Ryodan alive. *
> 
> And Ging+Mister Rat are probably the only ones in the Zodiacs who would not get their shit pushed in by the Royal Guards either.



The same way Pouf ate Morel 

Morel is way weaker than the Ryodan and the Zodiacs, yet he could keep up with the Royal Guards for some time.

Any of the Zodiacs would give the Royal Guards a serious fight. And any mid tier Zodiac and high tier Ryodan would slap the Royal Guards with the same difficulty Netero did.

Ging and Pariston are probably above old Netero, if not they would be equals, and they will surpass him in the next saga.

The weakest Zodiac was a 77 (Hisoka is a 100) and Morel is weaker than her, and yet Morel could keep up with Pouf and later, and while being weakened and without his weapon, he hold Youpi for several minutes.


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## Sablés (May 6, 2014)

Feitan needed Pain Packer to beat Zazan, a mere Captain. And he's arguably number 2 

Youpi intentionally went after the clones to savor killing the real Morel last. Not to mention that linear scaling like this is faulty. Morel's moveset is unorthodox and geared towards confusing the enemy, something that's particularly effective against someone as unintelligent as Youpi.

Youpi and Pitou would eat the Ryodan alive. Pouf from what I've seen isn't even a combat specialist.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Feitan needed Pain Packer to beat Zazan, a mere Captain. And he's arguably number 2
> 
> Youpi intentionally went after the clones to savor killing the real Morel last. Not to mention that linear scaling like this is faulty. Morel's moveset is unorthodox and geared towards confusing the enemy, something that's particularly effective against someone as unintelligent as Youpi.
> 
> Youpi and Pitou would eat the Ryodan alive. Pouf from what I've seen isn't even a combat specialist.



No, Feitan used the Pain packer, nothing suggested that he was desperate and he had no other choice. He was having fun, for him that combat was nothing more than a warm up exercise.

Youpi couldn't even eat the invasion team, which is a joke compared to the Ryodan, alive.

Youpi needed a lot of time to defeat Shoot alone.

Shoot<<<<< weakened Morel without the pipe<<<<<<< Morel at full power <<<<<<the weakest Ryodan bar Kalluto.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, Feitan used the Pain packer, nothing suggested that he was desperate and he had no other choice. He was having fun, for him that combat was nothing more than a warm up exercise.
> 
> Youpi couldn't even eat the invasion team, which is a joke compared to the Ryodan, alive.
> 
> ...



You're powerscaling incorrectly. The Guards are just under Netero who was unsure of being able to defeat Pitou and it's been agreed he'd stomp the Troupe by himself


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## Sablés (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, Feitan used the Pain packer, nothing suggested that he was desperate and he had no other choice. He was having fun, for him that combat was nothing more than a warm up exercise.



Given the requirements of pain packer, he'd have been more likely to just stomp the shit out of Zazan than resort to using it. Clearly he's not capable of the former because Zazan was keeping up with him the entire time and he never proved her physical better. Captains are fodder to the Royal Guard.



> Youpi couldn't even eat the invasion team, which is a joke compared to the Ryodan, alive.



Powerscaling linearly in a verse like HxH is just plain wrong. The Invasion Team had utility that worked wonders against a single  opponent. And in the end, Youpi didn't have a scratch on him while they were dead men walking.



> Youpi needed a lot of time to defeat Shoot alone.



Disregarding the fact that we can't compare Shoot to any of the Ryodan or that linear scaling is once again, wrong, Youpi wasn't even remotely at his strongest.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, Feitan used the Pain packer, nothing suggested that he was desperate and he had no other choice. He was having fun, for him that combat was nothing more than a warm up exercise.



The fight with Zazan wasn't as easy as you paint it to be. Feitan got messed up by a weak emitter attack because he was late putting up his guard when his Kou bounced off Zazan's hide, then his arm got snapped like a twig. Phinks was practically mocking him about tagging out to Bono because he was doing so bad. When he triggered Pain Packer he was downright pissed.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> You're powerscaling incorrectly. The Guards are just under Netero who was unsure of being able to defeat Pitou and it's been agreed he'd stomp the Troupe by himself






*Spoiler*: __ 











Just 100 tiers below Netero, who only needed 0.001 second to defeat Pitou.



Saitou Hajime said:


> The fight with Zazan wasn't as easy as you paint it to be. Feitan got messed up by a weak emitter attack because he was late putting up his guard when his Kou bounced off Zazan's hide, then his arm got snapped like a twig. Phinks was practically mocking him about tagging out to Bono because he was doing so bad. When he triggered Pain Packer he was downright pissed.



He was having some troubles because he hadn't fight seriously in a while. 

But as you said all the Ryodan agreed that they could easily defeat Zazan and that Feitan was making a fool of himself for having so many troubles against such a "weak" enemy.



Sabl?s said:


> Given the requirements of pain packer, he'd have been more likely to just stomp the shit out of Zazan than resort to using it. Clearly he's not capable of the former because Zazan was keeping up with him the entire time and he never proved her physical better. Captains are fodder to the Royal Guard.



Because It's not as if Feitan was playing, even stating that It was the first time in a long long time since he could fight. And It's not as if the rest of the Ryodan, including weaker members said that he wasn't going all out or that they could have defeated her/him faster.



Sabl?s said:


> Powerscaling linearly in a verse like HxH is just plain wrong. The Invasion Team had utility that worked wonders against a single  opponent. And in the end, Youpi didn't have a scratch on him while they were dead men walking.



Youpi was injured many times. It's just that among his nen abilities there's the one of the high speed regeneration.



Sabl?s said:


> Disregarding the fact that we can't compare Shoot to any of the Ryodan or that linear scaling is once again, wrong, Youpi wasn't even remotely at his strongest.



Morel vs Pouf

Pouf had to escape. 
Your excuse: Pouf isn't a brawler. 
My answer is question: Is Morel a brawler?

Shoot vs Youpi

Youpi needed 10 minutes to defeat him.
Your excuse: He wasn't at full power.
My answer: Shoot is obviously way weaker than Morel, not linear scaling or anything like that, just common sense.

Morel injured, exhausted and without his main weapon vs Youpi

Youpi needed almost 15 minutes to defeat him.
Your excuse: Youpi was playing.
My answer: Morel was exhausted, without a weapon, he isn't a brawler like Youpi and yet he could hold him for 15 minutes.

_____________________________________________________________________

Morel is, in my opinion, on the same power level as Gotoh. He has good amount of nen, a versatile technique and is intelligent. But he isn't anywhere near the level of the Ryodans.

Hisoka did to Gotoh what Pouf and Youpi couldn't do to Morel, kill him under a single minute. 

Feitan or Phinx are weaker than Hisoka, but not that much.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All Netero did to Pitou in the end was knock him away, he didn't get hurt and it even says as much (Netero's attack speed is the highest in the series) and they were in mid-air with Pitou having significantly less options than Netero who can use his Hatsu from any position

Youpi wasn't used to using his powers having never fought before and thus was growing during the entire fight. Additionally they couldn't do jack shit to him regardless and their mission largely involved making sure they were separated from Meruem. Pouf decided to use Beezelbub to leave without Morel knowing and thus trap him while also being free to do as he pleases. Later when Youpi is more used to his powers and is fighting Morel, Morel just stalls him with clones and couldn't do shit otherwise.

You can't just say "in your opinion" because that's not how it works here. Morel should actually be as strong as the strongest possibly bar Chrollo in the troupe because he defeating a Squadron Leader much easier and did so twice.

There's nothing to suggest Hisoka is on the same level as Phinx or Feitan either, particularly the former in terms of DC. There's also nothing to suggest Morel is on the same level as Gotoh.

You're overhyping both Hisoka (who got his fingers broken by a ball thrown by Razor) as well as the Genei Ryodan as a whole. Chrollo himself at best scales to Zeno.


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## Zuhaitz (May 6, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> All Netero did to Pitou in the end was knock him away, he didn't get hurt and it even says as much (Netero's attack speed is the highest in the series) and they were in mid-air with Pitou having significantly less options than Netero who can use his Hatsu from any position



How was he supposed to damage him/her in mid air by giving her/him a punch?



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Youpi wasn't used to using his powers having never fought before and thus was growing during the entire fight. Additionally they couldn't do jack shit to him regardless and their mission largely involved making sure they were separated from Meruem. Pouf decided to use Beezelbub to leave without Morel knowing and thus trap him while also being free to do as he pleases. Later when Youpi is more used to his powers and is fighting Morel, Morel just stalls him with clones and couldn't do shit otherwise.
> 
> You can't just say "in your opinion" because that's not how it works here. Morel should actually be as strong as the strongest possibly bar Chrollo in the troupe because he defeating a Squadron Leader much easier and did so twice.



Power scaling works here just like in any other place, furthermore when you have Hisoka rating some characters.

Also LOL Youpi at full power fought only an exhausted, injured, and weaponless Morel, not a big deal.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> There's nothing to suggest Hisoka is on the same level as Phinx or Feitan either, particularly the former in terms of DC. There's also nothing to suggest Morel is on the same level as Gotoh.
> 
> You're overhyping both Hisoka (who got his fingers broken by a ball thrown by Razor) as well as the Genei Ryodan as a whole. Chrollo himself at best scales to Zeno.



Morel was considered weak by the Zodiac, who Hisoka to be a 77.... 1+1...

Morel <<<<< Weakest Zodiac <<< Hisoka


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> How was he supposed to damage him/her in mid air by giving her/him a punch?
> 
> 
> Power scaling works here just like in any other place, furthermore when you have Hisoka rating some characters.
> ...



Why wouldn't he be able to?

Why're you trusting a noted liar like Hisoka in the first place 

His rating system is very vague and he has nothing to back it up, there's honestly no reason for him to be above any of the zodiac let alone Morel. He has no feats of beating characters on that level

In regards to Youpi "fighting" Morel, it was just him slaughtering leftover clones, with Morel stalling for as long as possible by staying out of the action. It's not like Youpi needed to rush or anything.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 6, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> He was having some troubles because he hadn't fight seriously in a while.
> 
> But as you said all the Ryodan agreed that they could easily defeat Zazan and that Feitan was making a fool of himself for having so many troubles against such a "weak" enemy.



Feitan's rustiness had nothing to do with him getting hurt  after his Kou attack failed, which surprised even the Ryodan and they had already acknowledged his rustiness. And they didn't think Zazan was weak at all; on the contrary they acknowledged that she was pretty strong and skilled in Nen. They wee mocking Feitan because he was doing badly with her and they wanted a shot.

Hisoka is overrated. We're talking about a guy who referred to having to fight in East Gorteau as "too troublesome".


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## Amae (May 6, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He has no feats of beating characters on that level


The featless characters that we only have statements to gauge their power with? He's not far off from Chrollo who rivals Zeno (who stated if the former fought seriously he would've beaten him), so it's not like it's completely baseless.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 6, 2014)

Amae said:


> The featless characters that we only have statements to gauge their power with? He's not far off from Chrollo who rivals Zeno (who stated if the former fought seriously he would've beaten him), so it's not like it's completely baseless.



Might have beaten him to be exact, but that's true. It probably just places him at most amongst the stronger Troupe members like Feitan and Phinx. Zeno is still below the Royal Guard however.


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## Bamboo (May 7, 2014)

The problem with comparing the victories of Morel and Fei against the ant squadron captains is that they did it very differently.

Morel mostly outsmart Leol and Cheetu, while Fei absolutely annihilated Zazan.

Their opponents fought differently too, Cheetu's Hatsu is basically a game of tag, so he did not really tried to beat Morel up, if Cheetu did he'll loose. He eventually loss the "game" when Morel outwitted him.
Leol's borrowed Inamura focused on drowning the opponent or trapping them with a whirlpool then finish him off with the harpoon. Leol mostly avoided physical contact with Morel and let the waves of water do all the work, like Cheetu he eventually loss when Morel outsmart him too.

Zazan fought straight up with Fei and did not avoid physical contact unlike her fellow chimera ants did.

Bottomline, you can't really say Morel is stronger than Feitan just because he beat more ant captains.
IMO, Fei is stronger physically, but then again as Morel said a battle between Nen users isn't just about strength.


As for the whole battle it could really go either way, if they're fighting as a group I'll lean more to the Hunters because of their teamwork displayed when they fought Youpi.
If it's 1-on-1 match-ups definitely would go with the Ryodan.


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## Zuhaitz (May 7, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Why wouldn't he be able to?
> 
> Why're you trusting a noted liar like Hisoka in the first place
> 
> ...



Hisoka was thinking for himself, he wasn't lying.

Morel <<<<<<< The bunny girl from the Zodiacs<<<<<<<<Hisoka

And if you add the overestimated Royal Guards that ended up being a joke to Netero:

Morel <<<<<Pouf=The bunny girl from the zodiacs<Youpi and Pitou= Mid level Zodiacs=Feitan=Phinx < Hisoka


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 7, 2014)

Then where would Kite fight since he rofl stomped a squad leader (admittedly without nen, but even nomral higher ranked soldiers gave Gon and Killua trouble)? Then got stomped by a newborn Pitou. You're just making up random rankings based on vague statements as well on statements that don't exist. Additionally all of Hisoka's "rankings" are observations he made without seeing them fight, similarly you have Netero being told he'd be able to do jackshit to the Royal Guard based on a more solid observation.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 7, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Hisoka was thinking for himself, he wasn't lying.
> 
> Morel <<<<<<< The bunny girl from the Zodiacs<<<<<<<<Hisoka
> 
> ...


what the hell are you smoking? hisoka almost got his face turned into mush by a weakened nen ball thrown by razor. hisoka is strong because of his battle smarts. this kind of power structure doesn't work in hxh.


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## Zuhaitz (May 7, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> what the hell are you smoking? hisoka almost got his face turned into mush by a weakened nen ball thrown by razor. hisoka is strong because of his battle smarts. this kind of power structure doesn't work in hxh.



Your point would only make sense if the Royal guards were vastly superior to Razor. They are not.

Hisoka didn't rate them based on their physical abilities, It was the overall fighting power that he was measuring.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Then where would Kite fight since he rofl stomped a squad leader (admittedly without nen, but even nomral higher ranked soldiers gave Gon and Killua trouble)? Then got stomped by a newborn Pitou. You're just making up random rankings based on vague statements as well on statements that don't exist. Additionally all of Hisoka's "rankings" are observations he made without seeing them fight, similarly you have Netero being told he'd be able to do jackshit to the Royal Guard based on a more solid observation.



Netero casual stomped the strongest Royal Guard while joking.

Kite was probably above Knucle but at most on Morel's level. And newborn =/= weak.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 7, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Your point would only make sense if the Royal guards were vastly superior to Razor. They are not. .



They aren't vastly superior to Razor? Are you really serious?


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## Amae (May 7, 2014)

Netero swatting Pitou away =/= stomping, let alone casually. Even Mereum initially had problems with Netero's speed. Get real.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 7, 2014)

Netero's attack speed is what he's mainly got over all of them, but their durability largely makes up for that. Enough punches would still take a guard down


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 7, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Your point would only make sense if the Royal guards were vastly superior to Razor. They are not.
> 
> Hisoka didn't rate them based on their physical abilities, It was the overall fighting power that he was measuring.


holy fucking shit

okay since you're such a fucking stickler to power levels

*Spoiler*: __


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## Zuhaitz (May 8, 2014)

That shows how complete they are. Nanika would be weak based on that.

Hisoka obviously wasn't measuring the amount or nen, or how complete they were, he was measuring the power level or how dangerous every person near him were.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 8, 2014)

of course nanina would be weak, he's no threat by himself. that's the whole point of killua protecting him from his family.

and that changes what? just because hisoka says shit doesn't make it true.


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## Zuhaitz (May 8, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> just because hisoka says shit doesn't make it true.



Hisoka didn't say anything. He thought it. 

Why do you think Togashi, the mangaka, made Hisoka think the numbers?


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 8, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Hisoka didn't say anything. He thought it.
> 
> Why do you think Togashi, the mangaka, made Hisoka think the numbers?



Because he's cocky and gets off on fighting someone stronger than him and winning


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## Zuhaitz (May 8, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Because he's cocky and gets off on fighting someone stronger than him and winning



Of course, Togashi made Hisoka said exact numbers refereeing the power of the Zodiacs and some other hunters because he wanted us to know that Hisoka is cocky.

Keep thinking that


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 8, 2014)

How do you know his apparently "official" numbers are about power as opposed to ranking who he'd want to fight more? 

You should stop schwinging too hard for Hisoka otherwise even he won't like it


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 8, 2014)

you're using hisoka's thoughts as word of god? 

you realize that kind of dumbfuckery is on par with mvc?

do you also think hisoka wanting to fight netero is an indication that togashi intended hisoka to be at least on par with the chairman?


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## Saitou Hajime (May 9, 2014)

"Wanting to fight Netero", my ass. When Hisoka was being chided by Illumi for missing the chance to fight Netero and the ants because he was too busy chasing Chrollo, his response was that it would've been too troublesome.

And didn't he give Illumi an extraordinarily high rating when he didn't even know it was him? And nobody's claiming that Illumi's top tier. Seems more like he was just gauging killing intent.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

I'd put Illumi and Hisoka on the same level to be honest


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 9, 2014)

Saitou Hajime said:


> "Wanting to fight Netero", my ass. When Hisoka was being chided by Illumi for missing the chance to fight Netero and the ants because he was too busy chasing Chrollo, his response was that it would've been too troublesome.
> 
> And didn't he give Illumi an extraordinarily high rating when he didn't even know it was him? And nobody's claiming that Illumi's top tier. Seems more like he was just gauging killing intent.


I don't see how that invalidates my point though.


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## Zuhaitz (May 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> How do you know his apparently "official" numbers are about power as opposed to ranking who he'd want to fight more?
> 
> You should stop schwinging too hard for Hisoka otherwise even he won't like it





I know he was rating the power because he thought that even the elite hunters were weak while rating some fodder.

I may have mistrust Hisoka if he was telling those numbers to someone, but you have to be retarded to think that Hisoka would be lying himself in his own thoughts.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 9, 2014)

you're really touched in the head aren't you?

it's perfectly possible that hisoka is not lying but still be wrong, he's not infallible.

arguing otherwise is just stupid when you consider there isn't even enough showing from the zodiacs and even hisoka himself to provide a conclusive answer.


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## Zuhaitz (May 9, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> you're really touched in the head aren't you?
> 
> it's perfectly possible that hisoka is not lying but still be wrong, he's not infallible.
> 
> arguing otherwise is just stupid when you consider there isn't even enough showing from the zodiacs and even hisoka himself to provide a conclusive answer.



Think for a second like a mangaka. You really believe that Togashi draw that numbers just to waste some panels?

Do you really think that 4 pages of a 15 pages chapters were made with pointless numbers?

The Zodiacs consider Morel to be a weakling, Netero one shoot  a Royal Guard while laughing, Youpi needed over 10 minutes to defeat Shoot and almost 20 to defeat a weaponless Morel. Pouf escaped from Morel. 

In the next saga we have Hisoka killing casually people with more status in the hunter society than the one Morel and Knov had before the ant extermination mission...

Believe what you want, the manga is gonna start again in a few weeks and you'll be proof wrong sooner or later.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Why does it matter how long someone takes to beat the other when their opponent is specifically stalling them? And when did Netero one shot a royal guard? 

Yes I don't think the numbers were a waste of space, they describeed on a scale of 1-100 who Hisoka would like to fight the most or who *initially* seemed that strong without them being shown doing anything. Hisoka would probably barely defeat a squad captain and it'd still be hard for him to get through their exoskeletons which are strong enough to tank enhancer attacks without any nen let alone when they have Ken up, he'd probably eventually get through with enough trickery in the end.

Once again he's *no* match for a royal guard, they are portrayed to be far above his level which is just under Kite and far stronger than every human character other than Netero and Adult Gon that has been shown fighting


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 9, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Think for a second like a mangaka. You really believe that Togashi draw that numbers just to waste some panels?
> 
> Do you really think that 4 pages of a 15 pages chapters were made with pointless numbers?
> 
> ...


translation: i think this is what the author meant!

not even going to bother with the rest of your post seeing as you're just repeating this pointless drivel ad-infinitum.

and morel actually says to teradain neutral that they're (bushidora the guy you were referring to who hisoka killed) too weak to claim the name seirin group so you kinda just shot yourself in the foot.


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## Zuhaitz (May 9, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Why does it matter how long someone takes to beat the other when their opponent is specifically stalling them? And when did Netero one shot a royal guard?
> 
> Yes I don't think the numbers were a waste of space, they describeed on a scale of 1-100 who Hisoka would like to fight the most or who *initially* seemed that strong without them being shown doing anything. Hisoka would probably barely defeat a squad captain and it'd still be hard for him to get through their exoskeletons which are strong enough to tank enhancer attacks without any nen let alone when they have Ken up, he'd probably eventually get through with enough trickery in the end.
> 
> Once again he's *no* match for a royal guard, they are portrayed to be far above his level which is just under Kite and far stronger than every human character other than Netero and Adult Gon that has been shown fighting



It does matter because in the next saga Hisoka defeated people on Morel's level in matter of seconds.

Kite wasn't even on Morel's level.

And no, Hisoka wasn't talking about who he wanted to fight because he was giving the rating without based on the Nen of the others, even giving Illumi a 95 without even looking at him.

Also Youpi couldn't even see Killua's speed while using Kanmaru, but the old granny of the Zoldiecks was even able to caught him...


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## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> *Also Youpi couldn't even see Killua's speed while using Kanmaru, but the old granny of the Zoldiecks was even able to caught him...*


Wrong.
He couldn't understand why something invisible and unable to be sensed got him. Didn't you watch this episode like 2 months ago when new anime aired it?  God bless ability was the reason he hit Youpi,  and he couldn't even hurt him for real, nor none of the hunter squad could,  besides shoot which was casually stomped in exchange to even touch Youpi. 
Zoldiacs defeating kilua means jack when they are portrayed above hisoka.


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## Zuhaitz (May 9, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Wrong.
> He couldn't understand why something invisible and unable to be sensed got him. *Didn't you watch this episode like 2 months ago when new anime aired it? * God bless ability was the reason he hit Youpi,  and he couldn't even hurt him for real, nor none of the hunter squad could,  besides shoot which was casually stomped in exchange to even touch Youpi.
> Zoldiacs defeating kilua means jack when they are portrayed above hisoka.



Anime=/= manga

And you have missed the point. Youpi couldn't react to kanmaru's speed, the top buttler of the zoldieck, who are much weaker than Illumi, Silva and Zeno, could react to that speed and caught Killua while he was moving at that speed.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 9, 2014)

Killua's speed doesn't get faster from Kanmuru, it's his reflexes that improve to be higher than everyone else's


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## Iwandesu (May 9, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Anime=/= manga
> 
> And you have missed the point. Youpi couldn't react to kanmaru's speed, the top buttler of the zoldieck, who are much weaker than Illumi, Silva and Zeno, could react to that speed and caught Killua while he was moving at that speed.


Nothing implies any zoldiac is below silva, zeno and genei ryoudan(unless your fallacious author intention argument. )
Also, there is no feat or instance from the manga as far i recall, which wasn't put the same way at the anime. killua kaminogan is indeed faster than Youpi at reaction. But it is likely one of if not the fastest reaction speed from hxh. Mind sharing the zoldiac fighting killua instance?  I can't found it.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 9, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Also Youpi couldn't even see Killua's speed while using Kanmaru, but the old granny of the Zoldiecks was even able to caught him...



Tsubone knew about Kanmaru in advance, otherwise by her own admission she would've been as helpless as Youpi. Plus she needed the help of two other butlers to  augment her ability (which was more suited to chase situations than Kanmaru) so she could catch on to him, otherwise he left her on the dust. And after all that, they still ended up loosing him and forcing them to second-guess his actual destination in order to beat him there.


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## Zuhaitz (May 10, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Nothing implies any zoldiac is below silva, zeno and genei ryoudan(unless your fallacious author intention argument. )
> Also, there is no feat or instance from the manga as far i recall, which wasn't put the same way at the anime. killua kaminogan is indeed faster than Youpi at reaction. But it is likely one of if not the fastest reaction speed from hxh. Mind sharing the zoldiac fighting killua instance?  I can't found it.



Neither do I have implied. And no, Killua isn't probably one of the fastest, nothing suggests that.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Killua's speed doesn't get faster from Kanmuru, it's his reflexes that improve to be higher than everyone else's



Yes, he does, he moves at lighting speed while in kanmaru.



Saitou Hajime said:


> Tsubone knew about Kanmaru in advance, otherwise by her own admission she would've been as helpless as Youpi. Plus she needed the help of two other butlers to  augment her ability (which was more suited to chase situations than Kanmaru) so she could catch on to him, otherwise he left her on the dust. And after all that, they still ended up loosing him and forcing them to second-guess his actual destination in order to beat him there.



If she didn't know she would be caught off guard.
As she knew, like Youpi the second time Killua moved that fast, she was able to react and she didn't need any one, as It's was seen when she transformed into the plane.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 10, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> If she didn't know she would be caught off guard.
> As she knew, like Youpi the second time Killua moved that fast, she was able to react and she didn't need any one, as It's was seen when she transformed into the plane.



She didn't "react" to anything. All she saw when Killua activated Kanmaru again was him disappearing and leaving her in the dust again. At which point she realized she needed help to keep up with him and called Amane and Canary to fuel Rider's High, which had an advantage over Kanmaru in a chase over open road, which is incomparable to a close combat situation like with Youpi.


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## Zuhaitz (May 11, 2014)

Saitou Hajime said:


> She didn't "react" to anything. All she saw when Killua activated Kanmaru again was him disappearing and leaving her in the dust again. At which point she realized she needed help to keep up with him and called Amane and Canary to fuel Rider's High, which had an advantage over Kanmaru in a chase over open road, which is incomparable to a close combat situation like with Youpi.



Tsubone could move as fast or faster than Killua, who was way faster than any Royal Guard.

And with that alone you have people that aren't even top tiers surpassing the Royal Guards and maybe even Meruem in the speed department.


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## Amae (May 11, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Tsubone could move as fast or faster than Killua, who was way faster than any Royal Guard.
> 
> And with that alone you have people that aren't even top tiers surpassing the Royal Guards and maybe even Meruem in the speed department.


I think my head actually hurt after reading this.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 11, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Tsubone could move as fast or faster than Killua, who was way faster than any Royal Guard.
> 
> *And with that alone you have people that aren't even top tiers surpassing the Royal Guards and maybe even Meruemin the speed department.*



Are you retarded? Meruem is the absolute god tier, Killua is only better than the guards in reflexes and doesn't approach their level in any other way. Top tier ants wreck all but the pinnacle of humanity, while Meruem shits on all of them


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## Saitou Hajime (May 11, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Tsubone could move as fast or faster than Killua, who was way faster than any Royal Guard.



You continue to ignore that she had advanced knowledge on Killua's ability, she had help, and she only kept up with him on open road and lost him the second he went off road. Rider's High's speed would've been as useless as Youpi's in a close combat situation against Killua.


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## Zuhaitz (May 13, 2014)

Saitou Hajime said:


> You continue to ignore that she had advanced knowledge on Killua's ability, she had help, and she only kept up with him on open road and lost him the second he went off road. Rider's High's speed would've been as useless as Youpi's in a close combat situation against Killua.



And you continue to ignore that to kept with him she must be as fast as him. And even in the road reflex that can handle that speed are needed not to crush.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Am I retarded? Meruem is the absolute god tier, Killua is only better than the guards in reflexes and doesn't approach their level in any other way. Top tier ants wreck all but the pinnacle of humanity, while Meruem shits on all of them



Yes, you are.

No, Meruem could have been defeated by kid Gon going into his adult form as Pitou stated.

Post nuke Meruem is the most powerful being that we have seen so far. He isn't the most powerful being that ever will appear in the manga.

Killua surpassed the Royal Guards not only in reflex but also in speed. 

Ants were shit tiers of the dark continent, making Meruem the shit king.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, Meruem could have been defeated by kid Gon going into his adult form as Pitou stated.
> 
> Post nuke Meruem is the most powerful being that we have seen so far. He isn't the most powerful being that ever will appear in the manga.
> 
> ...



He would have at most done what Zero Hand did to Meruem in terms of damage. The guards recognize everything as a threat to the the king, if you look at the stunt that Netero pulled it makes sense as to why.

Meruem is basically the pinnacle of all life. There's no reason why he'd be surpassed unless there's a good reason for it. He also tanked all of Netero's attacks including Zero hand which was the entirety of the former strongest in the world's nen and life.

Kanmuru only affects reflexes, why would it suddenly give him such a big speed boost?

Who mentioned them being shit tiers? And also this is the first time a 2 meter chimera ant mutant appeared, normally they're tiny with the queen only being 10cm and comparatively aren't a threat. All they've stated is that is where the species originated from


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## Saitou Hajime (May 13, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> And you continue to ignore that to kept with him she must be as fast as him. And even in the road reflex that can handle that speed are needed not to crush.



I didn't ignore anything, I didn't deny that she was as fast as him in that instance. What I keep reiterating (and you keep ignoring) is that the feat is dependent on certain conditions in order to be possible, like having advanced knowledge of Killua's ability, needing help to activate her ability, and that she only matched him in a specific situation that played to her ability's strengths and not to his (a pursuit over open road) and that she lost him the second the situation changed (Killua went off road). You using that feat to somehow make Tsubone > Youpi in terms of speed doesn't work, as the feat is not possible under her own power and in normal situations and conditions.


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## Zuhaitz (May 14, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He would have at most done what Zero Hand did to Meruem in terms of damage.



So basically each of Netero's hundreds of thousands of punches would damage Meruem as much as the Zero?
Then Netero would have killed Meruem in his prime with certain easy.



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Meruem is basically the pinnacle of all life. There's no reason why he'd be surpassed unless there's a good reason for it. He also tanked all of Netero's attacks including Zero hand which was the entirety of the former strongest in the world's nen and life.




The ants run away from the dark continent as the weakest beings there.
Meruem wasn't considered such a threat as to send the zodiacs after him.

The Netero he fought was a 130 years old man, not in his prime...

QUOTE=MusubiKazesaru;50637518]Kanmuru only affects reflexes, why would it suddenly give him such a big speed boost?[/QUOTE]

No, It boost the speed aswell.

QUOTE=MusubiKazesaru;50637518]Who mentioned them being shit tiers? And also this is the first time a 2 meter chimera ant mutant appeared, normally they're tiny with the queen only being 10cm and comparatively aren't a threat. All they've stated is that is where the species originated from[/QUOTE]

It was stated that the ants needed to run away from their home place to survive.



Saitou Hajime said:


> I didn't ignore anything, I didn't deny that she was as fast as him in that instance. What I keep reiterating (and you keep ignoring) is that the feat is dependent on certain conditions in order to be possible, like having advanced knowledge of Killua's ability, needing help to activate her ability, and that she only matched him in a specific situation that played to her ability's strengths and not to his (a pursuit over open road) and that she lost him the second the situation changed (Killua went off road). You using that feat to somehow make Tsubone > Youpi in terms of speed doesn't work, as the feat is not possible under her own power and in normal situations and conditions.



Tsubone can transform not only into a bike, she can also transform into a plane. Even if she didn't know about Killua's powers she would have caught him eventually.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 14, 2014)

Please post scans of them stating that the ants "ran away" from dark continent and that those ants were specifically the 2 meter mutations that assimilated humans.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 15, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> Tsubone can transform not only into a bike, she can also transform into a plane. Even if she didn't know about Killua's powers she would have caught him eventually.



A plane would've been as ineffective as a bike in a forest chase, or a close combat situation for that matter. And it still doesn't resolve the issue that Rider's High is dependent on Nen other than Tsubone's to function, which means it's useless one-on-one.


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## Zuhaitz (May 15, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Please post scans of them stating that the ants "ran away" from dark continent and that those ants were specifically the 2 meter mutations that assimilated humans.




*Spoiler*: __ 










Saitou Hajime said:


> A plane would've been as ineffective as a bike in a forest chase, or a close combat situation for that matter. And it still doesn't resolve the issue that Rider's High is dependent on Nen other than Tsubone's to function, which means it's useless one-on-one.



That's true. But we still don't know the limit of her transformations, or if she has a transformation in which she can control herself.

What we know is that in that form she can move as fast as Killua's kanmaru form and her granddaughter can react to that speed to control her.


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## Saitou Hajime (May 15, 2014)

Zuhaitz said:


> That's true. But we still don't know the limit of her transformations, or if she has a transformation in which she can control herself.
> 
> What we know is that in that form she can move as fast as Killua's kanmaru form and her granddaughter can react to that speed to control her.



It's a stated limitation of Rider's High that Tsubone can't control herself. Amane has only demonstrated the ability to react to such speeds while using Rider's High, and couldn't follow it at all under her  own power.


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## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Killua's speed doesn't get faster from Kanmuru, it's his reflexes that improve to be higher than everyone else's



Eh

I think it's effectively the same thing 

And that's taking the statement that it increases his speed (somebody posted the scan) as meaning that he does something similar to when he augments his reflexes: he forces his muscles to move in less time than it'd normally take were he using his usual nervous system. So he's faster, because he can do things more quickly, not necessarily because the speed of what he can do is augmented. 



MusubiKazesaru said:


> Killua is only better than the guards in reflexes and doesn't approach their level in any other way.



He burned the fuck out of Pouf's copy using electricity 

Granted he could barely tickle Yupi 



Zuhaitz said:


> Yes, he does, he moves at lighting speed while in kanmaru.



And that's not just the name of the technique because...? 



Zuhaitz said:


> Tsubone could move as fast or faster than Killua, who was way faster than any Royal Guard.



Sure, while in vehicle form 

She _was_ able to track his movement and actually follow him pretty well through the woods. The thing about him losing her? Probably has more to do with not knowing which direction he went in rather than his actual speed, because she kept up well enough with him. She's not at his speed without the bike, but she's not all that far behind. 

Now, what is certainly possible is that Killua's ability suffers somewhat over distances, where he isn't using close quarters to make the most of his speed (it's easy to drive 60 mph on the highway, very hard to catch somebody who can actually maneuver at that speed, even if you got the car). But that's making the kinda baseless assumption that Tsubone can't maneuver at that speed when she's dodging tree roots and shit  

For what it may or may not be worth, Pouf notes that it'd be challenging to catch Killua if he wasn't currently scattered, not that it'd be impossible.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 15, 2014)

Those scans don't state that what you said they did, they merely say that the ants came from somewhere Gon didn't know about and that the queen was injured. Please get your facts right


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## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

> Queen is injured 
> Later produces much stronger offspring easily capable of doing the same to her 
> ALL ANTS ARE SHIT TIER LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

yeah, not seeing the evidence here myself


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## Aphelion (May 15, 2014)

Leaning towards the invasion squad here.

APR would effectively nullify Pain Packer.

Also is Gon-san allowed?


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## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

Right and now that I actually read the OP

I'm going to have to give this to the Invasion Squad 

Knuckle is a decent counter for Feitan, and what's more, he actually has the teammates around to cover for him while interest builds up. 

The biggest problem I see here is that the troupe are lacking their heaviest hitters (the likes of Uvo and Chrollo). Feitan's the only one that took on a squadron commander (or whatever the hell the rank is), even if the others virtually annihilated their opponents. I'd say that Killua, with his speed, is now at the level where he can cause serious problems for the Troupe. Gon's power isn't something to laugh at either. 

Adult Gon would kind of murder them all, I doubt he's included


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## Saitou Hajime (May 15, 2014)

Fujita said:


> Sure, while in vehicle form
> 
> She _was_ able to track his movement and actually follow him pretty well through the woods. The thing about him losing her? Probably has more to do with not knowing which direction he went in rather than his actual speed, because she kept up well enough with him. She's not at his speed without the bike, but she's not all that far behind.
> 
> Now, what is certainly possible is that Killua's ability suffers somewhat over distances, where he isn't using close quarters to make the most of his speed (it's easy to drive 60 mph on the highway, very hard to catch somebody who can actually maneuver at that speed, even if you got the car). But that's making the kinda baseless assumption that Tsubone can't maneuver at that speed when she's dodging tree roots and shit



Tsubone said that the only way she was able to anything about Kanmaru at all was because she about it advance. It seemed more like she was anticipating Killua's path in advance based on how well she knew the kid to make up for the speed gap. And Killua turned Kanmaru off after a while, allowing Tsubone to bridge their distance. But then Killua turned Kanmaru again when they hit the road and promptly left Tsubone in the dust, at which point she admitted she would need help to catch up to him.

As for maneuvering through the forest at such speeds, Tsubone and the others couldn't follow Killua when he went off road, although granted that was with a bike.


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## Fujita (May 17, 2014)

Was going to reply earlier, then forgot. Sorry about that 



Saitou Hajime said:


> Tsubone said that the only way she was able to anything about Kanmaru at all was because she about it advance.



I don't think this matters all that much, tbh. It tends to be harder to deal with a sudden burst of speed when you're not expecting it... this doesn't detract from the fact that Tsubone _was_ able to (more or less) deal with once she knew what he could do. 

I mean, it shows that he's at least somewhat faster than her, no question about that, but... 



> It seemed more like she was anticipating Killua's path in advance based on how well she knew the kid to make up for the speed gap. And Killua turned Kanmaru off after a while, allowing Tsubone to bridge their distance. But then Killua turned Kanmaru again when they hit the road and promptly left Tsubone in the dust, at which point she admitted she would need help to catch up to him.



If she knew his path in advance (or had some really great way of tracking him at a distance) I don't see how she would have been completely unable to deal with it had she not seen it coming. It would have been what, a moment's extra distraction? Certainly not crippling if she knew where he was going to begin with. 

But what I'm talking about is this bit:


You see Killua running for a few panels and then Tsubone following, with him still in her sight. He clearly hasn't _completely_ left her in the dust, though he's likely consistently increasing the distance between them (which is why, as you said, she needed her bike form to actually catch up, and why he has time for a quick chat with Alluka before she catches up to him).  



> As for maneuvering through the forest at such speeds, Tsubone and the others couldn't follow Killua when he went off road, although granted that was with a bike.



I was talking about the scan above


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## Iwandesu (May 17, 2014)

Fujita said:


> Was going to reply earlier, then forgot. Sorry about that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pouf could not only track killua but was able to reach and hurt him on a few moments.
Also running Long distance is kanmaru weakness. (I can't remember if was stated at the manga and not only at the anime)


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 17, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Pouf could not only track killua but was able to reach and hurt him on a few moments.
> Also running Long distance is kanmaru weakness. (I can't remember if was stated at the manga and not only at the anime)



he also has a time limit, which hampers him in long battles


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## Fujita (May 18, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Pouf could not only track killua but was able to reach and hurt him on a few moments.



No

 . When Pouf splits off into smaller pieces and chased Killua, . So Pouf harrying him means absolutely nothing there. 

Then Pouf  after he gets her to start throwing a tantrum while Killua's carrying her. Killua still dodges this one, though. Then Killua knocks Komugi out and     



> Also running Long distance is kanmaru weakness. (I can't remember if was stated at the manga and not only at the anime)



I certainly don't remember this being in the manga, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there, of course

EDIT: Oh, another interesting feat is   as berserk death-Nen infused headless Pitou... despite   

Not sure how seriously you want to take that one, given that Pitou succeeded in taking the arm before Killua got there (and probably stopped his charge at that point), but Pitou seems to be just finishing up the motion at the same time that Killua has knocked Gon a distance away.


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## Iwandesu (May 18, 2014)

Fujita said:


> No
> 
> . When Pouf splits off into smaller pieces and chased Killua, . So Pouf harrying him means absolutely nothing there.
> 
> ...


Well, thanks.  it was quite of time since I read this part. ( it was a way less impressive dodging at the anime, to worsen) 
Anyway, intercepting Adult Gon should be okay since both are portrayed as top speedsters. (I'm more interested on how piercing Pouf and beating up Youpi affects killua dc.)
what do you think about the old hag, then? She too was helpless after the last kaminogan and killua was carrying Alluka the whole time.


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## Fujita (May 18, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> I'm more interested on how piercing Pouf and beating up Youpi affects killua dc.



Burning Pouf is pretty decent, though I'm not exactly sure where that lands him as far as DC goes 

Yupi was... weird. He certainly seemed to deform Yupi, and it even looked like he bruised him at certain points, but at the end the guy was barely tickled. Killua didn't really manage all that much. 



> what do you think about the old hag, then? She too was helpless after the last *kaminogan* and killua was carrying Alluka the whole time.



wat 

Well, like I said earlier, he's definitely faster than her, even if she wasn't completely blitzed long distance. At close distances, though, I do think he'd be rather a lot faster than she would be. 

Him carrying Alluka shouldn't matter that much, at one point he says that he's going his full speed even though he's carrying her


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 18, 2014)

Fujita said:


> Burning Pouf is pretty decent, though I'm not exactly sure where that lands him as far as DC goes
> 
> Yupi was... weird. He certainly seemed to deform Yupi, and it even looked like he bruised him at certain points, but at the end the guy was barely tickled. Killua didn't really manage all that much.



I do have to mention that Pouf was just a clone with a fraction of his full self's power, but it is indeed still a feat


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## Fujita (May 18, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> I do have to mention that Pouf was just a clone with a fraction of his full self's power, but it is indeed still a feat



Yeah

I mean, that shouldn't factor into his normal durability 

But it might affect his Nen strength (likely does, given that he notes that he's distinctly weaker, though that might have been partially due to having to remotely control himself idk)


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 18, 2014)

He mentioned it affecting his speed and it probably affects his nen too, which actually does mean his durability would be overall lower


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## Fujita (May 18, 2014)

By "normal durability" I meant that stupid toughness ants have going on just by virtue of their species 

Well, at any rate, it does seem logical that his Nen would suffer to some degree by him not being all put together


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 18, 2014)

Yeah the exoskeletons of even the stronger officers (not even a squad captain) are strong enough that Gon at the beginning of the arc wasn't able to kill Ramot with Rock. Pouf's is definitely superior to that, though of course nen defenses like Ken are much more important it does show that Killua's power is at least somewhat enhanced


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