# Piracy, Emulators, Video Games, Modding and How it effects the gamers and compaines



## thinkingaboutlife (Jun 22, 2013)

What is your opinion on piracy? Do you think its as bad as developers claim or do you think it isn't a big issue? How do you feel about emulators where with an emulator people don't have to buy the system they can just use an emulator and play roms for free? And how do you feel about people that mod their systems and don't buy games? Do you think it doesn't matter or do you think its a problem?

If the next gen consoles were hacked and you could play games for free would you go for it or still buy the games?


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## Canute87 (Jun 22, 2013)

Have no problem with emulators.  The games are old and have done sold off a long time ago.

I would be very much tempted yes but I'd still buy some of them.  I'd play all of EA games free hahahahhaa.


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## Death-kun (Jun 22, 2013)

In my opinion, game piracy is not nearly as bad as devs and "industry analysts" claim it is, it's a bunch of sensationalist bullshit. The problem is that the devs and "industry analysts" actually think it is a problem, so we end up with crappy policies that hurt the average consumer more than it will ever hurt a pirate, like the Xbox One's initial policies before Microsoft backpedaled, and EA's love of online passes. The problem is that people think 1 pirated game = 1 less game sale, when it simply isn't true. A large number of people who pirate were never going to buy the game anyway, so you can't just think in terms of "+1 for this means -1 for that". Unfortunately, the true impact piracy has on the industry, so far, can't really be quantified, but what I've said above are the kinds of things I have witnessed during my time as a gamer and as a pirate. 

Personally, I love pirating older games, but I don't have any urge to pirate "current" stuff. I still like to frequently support the industry, so I'll either end up pirating stuff I've already owned (having it all in one place is extremely convenient) or stuff that you simply can't find in stores anymore.


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## Gaawa-chan (Jun 22, 2013)

I see no problem with using emulators to play games that you'd never be able to purchase anyway (it's not like someone is losing a physical copy when you download a rom), or games you already own.  Emulation also allows you to tinker with games more easily than on a console; emulators have built-in cheat capabilities for those who want to make a game easier, harder, or just want to screw around.

A game has to be at least 2 generations back for me to consider it at all unless I already own the game and am just looking to fiddle around with it. I also can't fault people for emulating games that were never released in their region.  Again, the companies basically eliminated that consumer's ability to purchase the game, so it's not like they're losing money when that person emulates it; they would never have been able to have it anyway and no physical copy is lost.  So no one is actually losing anything.

If companies are so against emulation, then they should make their consoles more mod/cheat friendly (it's not like people don't already cheat on consoles; they've just gotta work at it a bit more), as well as eliminating region-locking and supporting fan translations.  They should also take better advantage of things like the online shops on consoles to allow for legal purchase of old, obscure games (if they supported fan translation mods, then they wouldn't even have to bother translating). If all that was done, the vast majority of piracy cases would simply vanish.

As it is, region-locking, refusing to release a game in certain areas but not supporting fan translations, not supporting and giving people access to old games, and not making mod/cheat-friendly consoles are, imo, a huge part of what causes piracy.  If consoles were not so restrictive, then people would not pirate nearly as much.


Also, I'm very supportive of game modding.  I think that the modding community is actually rather interesting.  To be honest... I wish it was larger.  I think some really cool stuff could be done with some video games if only there was more support for mods.

My only problem with cheats and mods and such comes from multiplayer fiascoes.  But frankly, cheaters are gonna cheat whether they have to purchase a device to do so or not.  And I'd have no problem with cheats being used in multiplayer if all the players involved had to agree as to whether or not cheats could be used, and each player had the ability to tell if other players had cheats activated or not even prior to game starts. I don't know much about coding and such though so I don't know if that would even be possible. *shrugs*


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## Patchouli (Jun 22, 2013)

On the emulation point, if there's a store like Nintendo's virtual console, then lump that in together in the "it's a dick move" category if you don't own the SNES title. At least when it comes to titles that the shop itself offers. For things they don't want to put on, open up Snes9x instead.

Edit: I may be too drunk to form coherent sentences. Please forgive me.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 22, 2013)

Did you know that piracy leads to strong console sales? 

Here is where I stand, I used to pirate; but not anymore cause there aren't that many decent games nowadays anyways. Back then I used to pirate and the games that I want to play more than once I buy 'em. If the game/dev is good I will buy the game to support everyone that worked on it. Hell, a good number of my pirated games were left unfinished anyways, so I didn't get the full experience. 

Right now I just base stuff off of reviews and impressions or even demos if they're available through PSN/XboxLive. 

IMO not pirating has restricted my ability to not try out unfamiliar games so I am usually in my comfort zone not trying anything new, especially games with previous sequels I have not played. 

Emulation is a must for every game; most of my backlog consists of old-ass games anyways. And the PSN/VirtualConsole/XboxLive wont offer every game ever made so emulators maybe the only way to play those games. 

Don't have an opinion on modding though, as I have never been into that stuff.


EDIT: sorry for the shitty grammar, been up all night playing LastOfUs


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## cnorwood (Jun 22, 2013)

if online or a game is good enough i wont pirate. I hacked my ps3 a while ago, but ps+, netflix, hulu made me update. Of course my financial situation also matters too, If i could hack my vita I would in a minute because I cant afford $40 games at the moment, but also the vita doesnt have anything worth pirating that isnt already on ps+.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 22, 2013)

Emulators?Depends if you want to play a game that is no longer being sold, especially if this is from a very outdated system, then why not?It's not hurting the industry. So there is that positive. Can't find a game in your country anymore?emulate it, certain games especially those sold in limited editions like Growlanser V rpg are examples of games everyone can't have but may want.

It's when people emulate more recent games thought, offcourse if the person decides to buy the game and play it on the actual console it may cancel out, not saying everyone does this and how much this hurts overall sales is hard to say.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jun 22, 2013)

compaines


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## Naruto (Jun 22, 2013)

thinkingaboutlife said:


> What is your opinion on piracy?



It's a complex issue. I will elaborate.



thinkingaboutlife said:


> Do you think its as bad as developers claim or do you think it isn't a big issue?



Generally speaking it's not the developers that claim it's a big issue, but the publishers.

The gigantic, billion dollar companies (EA) that pump out safe investments (COD) for huge returns pretty much every year.

It is, however, a problem. It's a problem because of the erroneous argument that 1 copy pirated equals 1 potential copy sold. Anyone who has ever downloaded an mp3 or a movie knows this is fucking false.

Indie developers suffer the most, and even they don't suffer nearly as much as you think. Small games with no marketing whatsoever rely on word of mouth to spread. Any percentage of piracy that affects them is, frankly, publicity they should be glad to get. All you have to do is look at how pathetically low seeded even critically acclaimed indie games like Braid were on release over at Pirate Bay. To top it off, even if you were to take into account the heartless bastards that effectively pirate the Humble Bundle by buying it at 1 cent or by sharing their download links with closed communities like _tehparadox _, something the HIB guys have touched on, it's still a largely insignificant portion of their gaming audience. The Humble Indie Bundle is a highly successful project that proves gamers are more worried about the legit ownership and paying fair prices than ripping off honest developers.

Meanwhile companies like EA continue to make their profit by marking up triple A prices and shoving day 1 DLC and microtransactions into non-F2P games. What I'm saying is that the perceived loss of sales just comes back to harm the consumer, the one that actually pays for the game. And that, is definitely a problem.

And finally, it's evident that good games sell. It's that simple. If your game is good, it will sell. And it will sell a lot.

This is a thriving industry where production costs continuously go up. The ones that struggle aren't suffering because of piracy. Look at SEGA. SEGA has been hanging on by a thread. They have been close to bankruptcy way too many times in the past decade. This is because they constantly put out projects that flop. 

TL;DR piracy is a problem but not nearly as big a problem as most people seem to think.

A good rule of thumb is, if you like a game and you can afford it, do so. Support the developers. It's an investment you're making so that you can play more awesome games in the future.



thinkingaboutlife said:


> How do you feel about emulators where with an emulator people don't have to buy the system they can just use an emulator and play roms for free?



Emulators are harmless. The only consoles you can emulate are old and the games are done selling. The exception to this rule is Nintendo's puny hardware which typically gets emulated alongside its shelf lifespan. However, it doesn't seem to affect them in the slightest. Nintendo is a juggernaut.



thinkingaboutlife said:


> And how do you feel about people that mod their systems and don't buy games?



If they could have otherwise afforded those games, I would say it's morally wrong. On the other hand it's hard to feel sorry for successful, gigantic corporations rather than the guy pirating games in this economy.



thinkingaboutlife said:


> If the next gen consoles were hacked and you could play games for free would you go for it or still buy the games?



It will depend on my financial situation. If I'm still in college paying tuition and/or student loans and struggling, I will probably pirate the games I play. Why wouldn't I? Why deprive myself of entertainment if I can't purchase it regardless?

To be fair, this hasn't be a problem for me in a while. I have a huge backlog of steam games and even console games to play through so I have no reason OR motivation to pirate anything right now. The odd new game that comes out that I MUST play immediately, I can afford. So I do.


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

I buy games to support companies, series or developers I like, especially when they're no financially stable. Then again, I also pirate games when I don't particularly care for the game or for mere convenience. My PSP can play every fucking old game I can think of, that's fucking handy. And it's not by emulating 25/20/15 or even 10 year old games that you'll affect any shift in the industry, that's naive as fuck.

I also pirate games that interest me at first to see if they're worth the purchase as I tend to buy all of the games that I'm iffy or not particularly sure about that way. Piracy can also lead to sales, there's plenty of developers who acknowledge that.

I don't make a complex deal out of it, I spend money on games and I also steal games, I'm not killing the industry by doing it, I've spend hundreds of euros on this fucking hobby. I'm supporting the industry in my own pace in the sections of the industry I want to support. The very idea that you need to fork money for every game you'll ever play is fucking ridiculous. Life is a little more complicated than that and you need to compartmentalize your funds for other shit.


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## Furious George (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't think anyone can do a better job of elaborating on the bigger economical implications of pirating than Naruto has, so I'll speak on a more personal level. 

I do everything in my power to avoid emulation and piracy.... just like do everything in my power to avoid bootleg movies and ONLY reading manga through scans. 

Its true that the multimillion dollar corporations won't miss my money and emulation is unbelievably conveinant, but at the end of the day you are stealing. In spite of online reputation I actually do have a conscience and it bothers me whenever I indulge in any good knowing full well the people who made it are not seeing a dime.

That being said, I WILL emulate if I feel like a game is too rare and ancient to play any other way and the market leaves me no other reasonable choice (90+ dollars for a USED Wii game? Yeah. Keep trippin'.). 

Case and point, I recently tried to get a hold of Metroid Fusion through 3DS VC only to find out that it was only available through some special membership deal. Now, *apart from emulation*, if I want to play MF I need to buy GBA and the original GBA copy... both of which are rare and rather expensive if you don't buy used. Nintendo.... y u do this?


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

Because Nintendo wants to profit out of brand recognition as much as they can, no matter how old the IP.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 22, 2013)

I honestly don't want to see the jackass the pirates indie games


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## Stumpy (Jun 22, 2013)

Why the hell isn't original Xbox PC emulation a thing? 

Probably because only weaboos take the time to program emulators from scratch and ain't no weaboos who love the OG Xbox.

I pirate things and I emulate things now and then, but I buy waaay too many games so I don't feel too bad. Usually if I yarr things I don't end up playing them more than an hour or two (if even that much). I buy the things I really want, obviously.

I support Good Old Games like a friend though. Those guys put all other companies to shame with their support for old games (and new!).


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

GoG doesn't actually support the developers of their really old games since those developers are long since gone and only the companies that own those IPs or bought them in some auction sale (which is even worse) get the money. I tend to be very selective which guys I buy if they're really old.

That's why I tell people to just pirate Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, one of my all time favorite games ever, instead of buying it on Steam or wherever. Because fucking Activision gets all the money instead of Troika, the guys that made that gem and were shitcaned shortly after.


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## Naruto (Jun 22, 2013)

Stumpy said:


> Why the hell isn't original Xbox PC emulation a thing?



I can answer that. Two simple reasons:

1) The original xbox is actually very hard to emulate. I won't pretend to know the specifics.

2) All of the best selling games on the xbox are PC ports or were later ported to the PC. The few that weren't, were available on the PS2.


Halo 2
Halo: Combat Evolved
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell
Fable
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Counter-Strike
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Need for Speed: Underground 2
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
Dead or Alive 3
Star Wars: Battlefront
Star Wars: Battlefront II
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon
Need for Speed: Underground

So there you have it. Basically it's too hard and there's no motivation to do it.


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## Enclave (Jun 22, 2013)

Piracy can even lead to increased sales, I don't condone piracy but it doesn't excuse DRM, thus why I buy whatever games I can from gog instead of steam


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## Gunners (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't have a problem with emulation as the companies have already made what they expected for the game. If they continue selling it on the market place they should view it as a bonus.


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## Zaru (Jun 22, 2013)

Anti-piracy measures tend to hurt the legit consumers more than the pirates.

Some games were definitely ruined by piracy, but I quite doubt that any truly good games were among those. (Or the price was just too high for the value)

I used to be a game pirate in my teens, due to a lack of money. Since I later (20+) put much more money into the gaming industry than I took from it with the pirated games I bought, I can understand why piracy can be a good thing "to get people hooked" in the first place. I mean seriously, teenagers only have so much money and new games can often cost several weeks worth of allowance.

With 50%+ sales going rampant on the PC, all you require for affordable legal PC gaming nowadays is a bit of patience.

I don't know much about pirating on consoles so I won't comment on that.


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

Enclave said:


> Piracy can even lead to increased sales, I don't condone piracy but it doesn't excuse DRM, thus why I buy whatever games I can from gog instead of steam



There's nothing inherently wrong with Steam's service though despite what DRM haters might tell you. There is such a thing as a non-intrusive DRM.


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## Enclave (Jun 22, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> There's nothing inherently wrong with Steam's service though despite what DRM haters might tell you. There is such a thing as a non-intrusive DRM.



I tolerate Steam however gog.com, Desura, GamersGate?  Much superior.


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

I wouldn't say they're much superior or even superior at all, they all emulate Steam to a point. Plus, I can actually make money off steam with little work.


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## Enclave (Jun 22, 2013)

They emulate Steam as far as being an online marketplace.  That's about it.


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

Well, yeah. Steam provides quick access to community hubs, modding, it's an indie platform provider, quick forums, whatever. It's just complete in the service it provides.


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## Xiammes (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't have a problem with Piracy, but I hate when people try to justify it like they are doing nothing wrong. The worst is when they pirate a game, beat it and say they wouldn't buy it because the game is shit. The only legitimate case for piracy is getting something you couldn't affordable get in your area, something like Brazil's insane taxes for video games.

Piracy doesn't effect big name companies or games as much as it effects smaller game companies. The results are mixed, sometimes piracy helps smaller games prosper, while othertimes you have cases where only 10,000 games sell but you have 50,000 thousand people on the servers.


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## Enclave (Jun 22, 2013)

Deathbringerpt said:


> Well, yeah. Steam provides quick access to community hubs, modding, it's an indie platform provider, quick forums, whatever. It's just complete in the service it provides.



And unsurprisingly I consider DRM free games to be superior to all that.  Besides, their forums aren't fantastic, there's better ones out there.  Additionally their indie support isn't fantastic, Greenlight has some serious problems, they need to get that shit fixed.  Also for modding?  Places like the Nexus do it way better.

Steam is great, I have tons of games from there but I'm not going to pretend that places that give me DRM free games are somehow inferior when it's really quite the opposite.


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## Deathbringerpt (Jun 22, 2013)

Enclave said:


> And unsurprisingly I consider DRM free games to be superior to all that.



And there's nothing wrong with that. But saying that there's better shit out there is pretty moot since there's always something better out there online, my point is that it's workable and efficient, especially the modding community. The interface most of all just provides a quick center for all your game management. 

And Greenlight is still a new concept, it's gonna be overhauled and reworked as times goes by, just as Steam was ever since it was first conceived which started off as a piece of shit, at the end of the day, it still provides plenty of games and there's a plethora of indie developers that count on it for sustainability.   

Plus you have the Summer/Winter sales activities which are great for doing with friends and shit. Whatever, I get that you want to skip DRM altogether but that doesn't necessarily makes other webpages inherently better than Steam.


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## Rios (Jun 22, 2013)

Crysis(all of them), Dead Island(all of them), Metro(all of them), Borderlands 2(not 1) are games I really dislike and thanks to piracy I was able to try them without buying them. And no, I didnt finish either game, I stopped playing them even before reaching the middle, deleted them and then called them shit.


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## Enclave (Jun 22, 2013)

No DRM is indeed inherently superior to DRM.

Also, all those websites I mentioned?  They also have "steam style" sales.


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## Stumpy (Jun 22, 2013)

Naruto said:


> I can answer that. Two simple reasons:
> 
> 1) The original xbox is actually very hard to emulate. I won't pretend to know the specifics.
> 
> ...


Bah, it is the system I remember the most intricate little details of. It would be the only one I could relate to people on when people talk about wanting to emulate CRT curved edges and/or scan lines and stuff like they have on some emulators these days.

The PC or PS2 versions just aren't the same


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## Nois (Jun 22, 2013)

I've seen people play pirated games and love them so much they'd continue to buy the subequent parts evr since. Getting your hands on an otherwise expensive game can help convince you it's actually [or at least in some cases] worth the bulk of cash they want for it. I think some game can suffer from piracy, but I never saw the big titles get dropped due to piracy. They keep coming regardless.

As for emulation, it's a great way for people to explor the old gaming, which could also get them into the contemporary gaming and deffinitely some titles. I see nothing wrong in emulating a title that has already been discontinued, developed for a system that has been discontinued and replaced several times over. The devs lose absolutely no money on most of the games that can be emulated nowadays as emulation requires several times more juice than the original system, so most of the currently money-makers are out of emulation's reach.


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## Death-kun (Jun 23, 2013)

As other have said in here, I don't think anyone here should ever pirate indie games unless they just want to have a taste of it before actually buying it. Indies need our support a lot more than big name companies, considering they're one of the few bastions of creativity and passion left in the industry.


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## Nois (Jun 23, 2013)

And a talent mine for the big ones too^


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