# Epic Art Director says lead female in Gears is "tough to justify."



## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Although the art director, Chris Perna, says they received positive reactions from their female fans/players regarding their female characters (who he describes as "butch"), that it is "tough to justify" a leading female in a game [like Gears of War] when you "look at what sells."

Chalk another one up to male chauvinism.

. Talks about other things (such as their "butch female characters"). Whole article is really a trainwreck, as to be expected.


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## Axl Low (Feb 15, 2013)

Alex was actually pretty good looking and she was fucking dangerous.
Anya and Sam were too. 

How are they butch?
because they can kick ass with the boys?
jesus

plus does it really matter? if you kick ass
you kick ass

I don't have a problem with a female gears lead
but make the game interesting


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## Unlosing Ranger (Feb 15, 2013)

God of War would sell better if it was a wom- Oh right 
They aren't technically wrong since most games have males and they sell the most because of that. 
Though I Imagine that trend could be easily fixed by having a female be made lead in COD or something and others would follow suit.


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## Stumpy (Feb 15, 2013)

They have years of market research and focus testing data to back that up no doubt. I assume the art director himself doesn't have any issue with the idea of making a female lead himself, but he does not call the shots with the gazillion dollar franchise that Epic and Microsoft both have their hands in.

"Look at what sells" is the same reason Bioshock Infinite has a dude with a gun and a scowl on his face on the front box art instead of something more interesting. Didn't read ALL of it, but on the issue of no female lead in a main line Gears of War game, it just won't happen.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

He's right if the answer is a male lead would likely sell better. But it's not "tough to justify." It's trying to brush away the fact that they don't want to and probably couldn't pull it off. There's no real reason to not at least try it. I would think that fans of the series - including, particularly, the books - would be quite ecstatic with a game centered on Bernie Mataki. The only thing "tough to justify" for Gears anymore has to do with the fact that it's clearly losing its speed unless PCF can find a way to fix it.

If no one takes the step it is never going to change. As to be expected instead of wanting to be a pioneer like they originally wanted, they're intent on just going with whatever brings in the most money even though they undoubtedly already have plenty after selling their engines to keep such a small group afloat.

I'm not surprised why so many people left now.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Feb 15, 2013)

Krory said:


> He's right if the answer is a male lead would likely sell better. But it's not "tough to justify." It's trying to brush away the fact that they don't want to and probably couldn't pull it off. There's no real reason to not at least try it. I would think that fans of the series - including, particularly, the books - would be quite ecstatic with a game centered on Bernie Mataki. The only thing "tough to justify" for Gears anymore has to do with the fact that it's clearly losing its speed unless PCF can find a way to fix it.



It's tough to justify from a sales perspective, which is somewhat understandable. 



> If no one takes the step it is never going to change. As to be expected instead of wanting to be a pioneer like they originally wanted, they're intent on just going with whatever brings in the most money even though they undoubtedly already have plenty after selling their engines to keep such a small group afloat.
> 
> I'm not surprised why so many people left now.



But I agree that at some point vision comes into play, seeing beyond what people think they want (usually the same old same old) and giving them what you know they will want.

Personally I really hope the Tomb Raider reboot sells tons, if only because I think it would encourage more serious effort to have games featuring well written female characters.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Same. Also why I put a lot of hope into Remember Me, as Nilin would be a great example of another good female character if previews are to be believed (and a non-white one to boot).


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

I personally think Remember me is a bland looking game from everything i've seen of it. A portion of it has to do with the somewhat boring main character. Only things we know are they designed her to be a super model in booty jeans with an overdramatic amnesia subplot(really, asking who you are to a helicopter trying to kill you is just stupid writing), but i'd say that the last thing that gives me these opinions is because she's a woman.

This epic guy kinda encapsulates why the gaming community is looked at through an overly chauvinistic lense. I think that has more to do with their retarded mindsets than what the fans actually want or expect. At the very least breaking out of stereotypes or 'safe' territory is what gives games like Bioshock or Prototype 2 or Sleeping Dogs cred in my book.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

I don't think Prototype 2 breaks out of any stereotypes considering how they made their main character.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Now that i think about it...maybe your right  its weird though considering he seemed like a normal guy before everything happend. That first monologue in the opening sequence i actually felt kinda empathy with him

Until he started tossing around cars and going "hell fuckin yeah!" all the damn place, and just being a walking sterotype.

Damn canadians are so racist to my people


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

At least he wasn't as bad as Sam B from Dead Island.

The stereotypes in that game even made the Ku Klux Klan cry.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Those...accents really pissed me off in dead island. But you know what? I was pissed off before i even played the game.  Cause the trailer was so unrepresentative of the final product kinda like Aliens


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

In all fairness, it was just that bullshit reveal trailer.

All of the other trailers made sure to showcase the whopping piece of shit that it ended up being.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

I still call bullshit on that kind of false advertising tho  salty as fuck about it


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Oh it is still quite a load of bullshit.

But don't tell that to the developer. They insist .


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Feb 15, 2013)

Axl Low said:


> Alex was actually pretty good looking and she was fucking dangerous.
> Anya and Sam were too.
> 
> How are they butch?
> ...



Because their armor need to emphasis the slut factor of course.

Nevermind if they're competent or not.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm still demanding a solo-Bernie sniper game.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

They always focused on Anya's ass or Sam's body in general. what the fuck Cliffy you fuck


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## Mael (Feb 15, 2013)

How about NOT making another Gears?  Fuck...it's over.  Stop it.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Although I hate them with a passion now, I like the idea Judgment because it'll probably be more interesting than the previous titles could offer because Baird and Cole were the only interesting characters (until we got Sam and Bernie in the games in 3).

@Inu - It's not Cliffy saying it.


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## Mael (Feb 15, 2013)

BairdSam was complete canon btw. 

But granted, the entirety of the Gears soldiers were like imitation Astartes except gruff and a lot more vulnerable.  Did anyone really expect realistic females in this sort of setting?


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Anya was fine until you listen to her battle banter. Bernie was done well, to boot. The throw-away token minority in Raam's Shadow was good aside from being fodder. This isn't about how their females are done, really - it's that since a lead female won't sell as well as burly musclemen that it's not worth doing.

And yeah, BairdSam was absolutely canon.  Even though the books tried to set up DomSam. Though Baird and Bernie had like... the best fucking dynamic together in the books. They were so perfect together. I was hoping for too much for them to show any of that in Gears 3.


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## Buskuv (Feb 15, 2013)

They need to pull another Samus.

Badass, silent protag in hulking, genderless armor.  The entire game you spend being referred to as "marine" or "sarge" or whatever, no gender indicative titles; at the end, it's revealed you're a woman.  All the whiny teenage boys can have their shitfit all they want.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> They need to pull another Samus.
> 
> Badass, silent protag in hulking, genderless armor.  The entire game you spend being referred to as "marine" or "sarge" or whatever, no gender indicative titles; at the end, it's revealed you're a woman.  All the whiny teenage boys can have their shitfit all they want.



Agreed. We really need to get past this bullshit stigma somehow. Especially after Other M butchered Samus and another vague example, how 3rd Birthday gave Aya Brea the same treatment.

It's not that I think what Epic's art director said is not true... the shit thing is it _is_ true but no one really seems interested in trying to take that step to get past it.


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## Mael (Feb 15, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> They need to pull another Samus.
> 
> Badass, silent protag in hulking, genderless armor.  The entire game you spend being referred to as "marine" or "sarge" or whatever, no gender indicative titles; at the end, it's revealed you're a woman.  All the whiny teenage boys can have their shitfit all they want.



I remember those days...quite a shock but I never had that shitfit from the NES days.

But yeah, Samus was perfect because up until Other M she was basically the female Gordon Freeman.  I say pre-Other M Samus and Freeman were the quintessential models of how to do it right even if Freeman's HEV Suit wasn't the armor people think with Gears and the rest.

Of course you could always just use an influence from Adepta Sororitas. 

But I digress, Anya and Sam and Bernie just came off as trying to be too tomboy and then when cutscenes came with Fenix all mopey and her trying to be the hugbox just got too awkward.  Gears dropped the ball which is why I just think they should quit altogether.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

I want to see what PCF can manage, even though Chmielarz bailed on them. I hope they can't _possibly_ do worse than the main Epic bigwigs (especially since most of them left Epic, too).

And good thing, too, because Vanishing of Ethan Carter sounds like it could be very cool.


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> They need to pull another Samus.
> 
> Badass, silent protag in hulking, genderless armor.  The entire game you spend being referred to as "marine" or "sarge" or whatever, no gender indicative titles; at the end, it's revealed you're a woman.  All the whiny teenage boys can have their shitfit all they want.



In my personal opinion I find that the only reason Samus was so good was BECAUSE she had no personality. The similarity between her, Gordon Freeman, Master Chief (in the beginning anyways) is all because they don't speak, they don't reveal their feelings or thoughts or anything about them. Which is a cop out, now I'm not saying that Nintendo is copping out with Samus since Nintendo are hardly known for their deep characters (link for one).

I don't think she should be held in such high regard as a positive representation of females, just as much as Gordon should be a positive male representation in games. We don't know anything about them (Other M be damned) other than the fact that they shoot shit and look cool while shooting shit. 

A true positive representation would be someone like Jade from Beyond Good & Evil, Alyx Vance from Half Life, even Kat from Halo Reach showed more about herself than Samus. I'm not hating on Samus at all, love that girl and was just heartbroken after the travesty that was other M, but I don't find her neither a positive or negative representation of females in gaming because she doesn't really show us anything. She just blows stuff up. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. 

I find that this is a good video explaining what a proper female character should strive to be

[YOUTUBE]Q1qndga6SNU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Buskuv (Feb 15, 2013)

DedValve said:


> In my personal opinion I find that the only reason Samus was so good was BECAUSE she had no personality. The similarity between her, Gordon Freeman, Master Chief (in the beginning anyways) is all because they don't speak, they don't reveal their feelings or thoughts or anything about them. Which is a cop out, now I'm not saying that Nintendo is copping out with Samus since Nintendo are hardly known for their deep characters (link for one).
> 
> I don't think she should be held in such high regard as a positive representation of females, just as much as Gordon should be a positive male representation in games. We don't know anything about them (Other M be damned) other than the fact that they shoot shit and look cool while shooting shit.
> 
> ...



I never called her a good character because she doesn't have a personality (or didn't).  Just like Gordon Freeman, Chell, Link, Master Chief (until recently) never did.   

I was more talking about having the silent, badass main character of the game being a female the entire time, but it's impossible to know until the end.  I'm not talking about character driven stories--I never was.  However, it would be a good way to drive a point home that the imaginary character having a penis or not doesn't really matter and that it can still be a good game without adhering to silly tropes and ideas.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

i don't agree with samusing fucking female characters. bitches, you should know that if you fucking make the character unable to be female by hiding that fact, it defeats the fucking point of having a strong female. you don't do it with males do you? The issue is to portray a female realistically without fucking making it embarrassing for all parties involved, not to hide it like it some sort of shame. "oh we can't have girls out on display that would mean we have to put them with big tits or superflous attitude ala Wet, one the most offensive female stereotype in a game known to man"

FUCK THAT SHIT


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

I never said you did Boskov, sorry if I made it sound like you did. It's just often I always come across people that say "we need more females like Samus to represent girls in games" because they think that she is a legitimately a good character when she has no character at all and I was just trying to bring it up alongside yours. 

It's honestly one of the reasons why I like Ashley Williams so much in ME1. In ME1 she was a god fearing, bigoted, poetic talking piece of trash who, if I met in real life I would punch in the face...repeatedly. Yet in games I actually like and respect her because she is such a believable character, even one that I (and going by the internet, many others) despise. I don't think I should feel that way, I shouldn't have to respect a douchey character just because they are one of the few "real" characters in a sea of stereotypes but I do. 

Then Mass Effect 3 happened =/ 

I also miss old Jill Valentine. She was actually a really great representation of females, now she just shows her cleavage everywhere, even on extremely dangerous missions. At least Sherry had the decency to hide that shit and look professional. She's probably the only female in all of RE6 to not really emphasize her breasts.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Valve, you sound like the kind of guy who likes Lily in Walking Dead just cause she's a bitch who's useless except when she's freaking out and having nervous breakdowns being a drag on the group 

Go for the Carly type of character. Strong, dependable, not a bitch. Unsexualized to high heaven and is competent when she needs to be(although slightly absent minded)


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Jill Valentine emphasized on needing to be rescued by her guardian angel, Barry, and as she needed constant aid from him through the lock pick and acid rounds and keys. She was personified with "easy mode" in her first appearance. She ran around a zombie apocalypse knowingly in a miniskirt and tube-top and still needed to be frequently rescued - by Barry and Carlos both in RE3 and only ended up winning through deus ex machina. Even in Resident Evil 5, she was built around her typical "damsel in distress" model as a villain who needed to be rescued. The only thing that may be outside of that box is Revelations because I haven't played that one yet. She is one of the most glaring stereotypes in the sea of stereotypes.


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> Valve, you sound like the kind of guy who likes Lily in Walking Dead just cause she's a bitch who's useless except when she's freaking out and having nervous breakdowns being a drag on the group
> 
> Go for the Carly type of character. Strong, dependable, not a bitch. Unsexualized to high heaven and is competent when she needs to be(although slightly absent minded)



Carly made me hate The Walking Dead game, because of how well-done she was and what ultimately happened.

And Clementine was probably one of the very few tolerable (and outright good) child characters in gaming, to boot.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

She also wore tight swimwear throughout the entire revelations game even when on dry land  and she also kept it half unzipped so we could see the barest hint of her tits. Sexual character up the asshole


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

When you get down to it, even Samus was heavily sexualized right from the start.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

well yeah when the first thing you actually see of her is her fucking underwear 

Metroid prime did it right where she was pretty realistic for what we saw of her. of course nintendo had to interfere and give her the zero suit, probably the beginning of the end for retro's attempt at saving her character...and then team ninja showed up...the most notorious for making flesh dolls with nothing inside


How did nintendo think this was a good idea?


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

I think it should become a Gaming Department rule to just never talk about Other M again.

It should be made a bannable offense. First step to trying and wipe that shit away. It did to Samus what... well, every Resident Evil game did to Jill Valentine. As to how she wound up being a "respectable" female is beyond me, especially in comparison to Ada and Claire who at least have _some_ good qualities.


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

Resident Evil 1 Jill was actually a good representation I feel. Barry does not show up constantly, if I recall he only shows up during 4-5 key moments (1 of them completely optional if you knew what you where doing) and midway through the game she (or more like you) can choose to get rid of him forever or keep him around, after that Barry pretty much doesn't do anything till the end. She was hardly the damsel in distress since pretty much everyone in that game was screwed. Rebbecca on the other hand was awful, almost nothing redeeming about her. Especially in the original RE. 

RE3 onwards got pretty stupid with Jill, but even RE3 jill could still have been taken seriously compared to any post modern Jill shows just how far Capcom has gone in treating their female characters, Jill is an absolute joke now with her high heal wearing, breast slipping uniform. Hence "old" Jill.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

To be clear guys, i love tits, and hot girls IRL or in games, i've got no problem at all with that.

But for these shitty devs in game developer land, don't try and sell me that thinking thats a substitute for a decently crafted character, its not gonna happen


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

ITS POSSIBLE to make a sexy character multi faceted and cleverly written, and even bake it into the character like a pastry  (like faye from CB), but especially in games, its really difficult. Which is why even Ken in all of his infinite wisdom and genius toned down Liz's ginomungus tatas cause he was concerned people would focus more on that element than her character at large


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

A female doesn't need to be mindlessly prancing around in nothing at all or overly-revealing clothing to be "sexy" though.


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## Buskuv (Feb 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> well yeah when the first thing you actually see of her is her fucking underwear
> 
> Metroid prime did it right where she was pretty realistic for what we saw of her. of course nintendo had to interfere and give her the zero suit, probably the beginning of the end for retro's attempt at saving her character...and then team ninja showed up...the most notorious for making flesh dolls with nothing inside
> 
> ...



You should read up on that.

Obviously they have a knack for some of the stupidest female character designs, but they only handled technical aspects--combat and such.  Nintendo did everything else.


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

I DON'T like tits irl. So it's even more painful for me, unless its a blatant parody like Bayonetta. Its when you start to take yourself seriously that things get stupid. 

Then again should we really be discussing resident evil females? Because I am honestly confused as fuck if this series is one giant parody of western action flicks or is actually trying to take itself seriously anymore. I think the last canon RE game to be taken seriously was Outbreak 2 (but the last mainline was RE3 since everything after code veronica was pretty much spectacle after spectacle). Hell some of their females fits a stereotype so well that they almost seem like a parody, Ada and Jessica come to mind.

Also Nintendo is responsible for Other M? I'd believe it since they where slowly steering Samus that way with Metroid 4 but to go the degree they went with in Other M is just...disgusting. 

Retro's Samus (the FIRST samus, not this anime looking crap) was by far the best Samus.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

That's the samus i was referring to. The one in Prime 1(and prime 2 i think, although i'm not sure about that)



Krory said:


> A female doesn't need to be mindlessly prancing around in nothing at all or overly-revealing clothing to be "sexy" though.



*TRUE*, but my point is, if you make the character inside strong enough, what matters outside matters much less. That's why i take issue when tits or overdone and offensive stereotypes are the main objective and not actual depth.


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

Did...did everyone just get a double post or is chrome weirding out on me?


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> You should read up on that.
> 
> Obviously they have a knack for some of the stupidest female character designs, but they only handled technical aspects--combat and such.  Nintendo did everything else.



That's why i said nintendo was the one who interfered with Retro's portrayal. Team Ninja wasn't handling the script, but fuck if they were a terrible choice for even being in that kind of collaboration anyway


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## Buskuv (Feb 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> That's the samus i was referring to. The one in Prime 1(and prime 2 i think, although i'm not sure about that)
> 
> 
> 
> *TRUE*, but my point is, if you make the character inside strong enough, what matters outside matters much less. That's why i take issue when tits or overdone and offensive stereotypes are the main objective and not actual depth.



While it's true that females receive almost exclusivity when it comes to physical stereotypes, the video game industry is the last place to look for good characterization.  I think we're going to need to work on the storytelling in games as whole before we focus on gender--they almost all suck.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Dr. Boskov Krevorkian said:


> While it's true that females receive almost exclusivity when it comes to physical stereotypes, the video game industry is the last place to look for good characterization.  I think we're going to need to work on the storytelling in games as whole before we focus on gender--they almost all suck.



I'd say there are shining standouts, but that's what makes it sad, they have to stand out from the crowd


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

And we've come full circle to a point where some developers don't even care to try and that's just disappointing.

Though even Tomb Raider now, Rhianna Pratchett is trying to say the essence of the story isn't a "female element" - it's a "human element." The fact that she's a woman is circumstantial to everything.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

a lot of people are taking offense to the "it'll make you want to protect her" line that the producer made, also they call it torture pron that the devs jack off to 

i dunno about any of that, but i do know i have the game preorders


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## Mael (Feb 15, 2013)

This whole concept of "protection of the female" should've been introduced in SOTL. 

Actually no. 

Or maybe.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Or who knows 

I can't really disparage Ico and SOTC without getting into a huge fisticuffs about preset gender roles going back centuries

Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on your view) that's the era we live in today


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## DedValve (Feb 15, 2013)

I've got nothing wrong with Tomb Raiders narrative. It looks fucking excellent, it's when it plays like Uncharted and the gameplay contradicts the story is what I have a problem with it, but that's totally unrelated to the topic at hand. 

I'd never thought I'd be the one to say this but Lara is shaping up to be one of the better examples of females in games.  I hope people are quick to put up all the cutscenes on youtube.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

at the very least, she's not instantly recognizable for her triangle tits and no backstory anymore


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> a lot of people are taking offense to the "it'll make you want to protect her" line that the producer made, also they call it torture pron that the devs jack off to
> 
> i dunno about any of that, but i do know i have the game preorders



People read into things too much. My ex recently made the same remark when I said this article kind of compounds why I'm choosing Tomb Raider over Gears.  But Pratchett's interviews put a lot more into perspective, and sort of puts to bed the concept that she's going to be this scared little girl for most of the game. Most recently she's talked about how they implemented the fact that she's just going through killing people so much into the narrative, with Lara remarking how alarming it is at how easy she finds it to kill them (when Conrad Roth remarks how it must've been very hard for her to go through with it, killing so many people to get to him and rescue him). I hear Far Cry 3 was handled similarly.

It's not the first time a producer has made stupid remarks about a game (and not the first time the producer of this game made a stupid remark) that needed damage control but I'll trust the writer over the producer most of the time.

And I for one will look forward to the many ways Lara can die.  One of the recent videos even showed what happens when you fuck up the part when she's going downriver. She nails a median and a spear/stake goes through her head from under her chin and she just kind of claws at it for a second before going limp.  So yeah, maybe there is torture porn in it.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Yeah far cry 3 did do something like that. Good game that was. I always like story's like that, when your dealing with realism, you have to deal with realistic themes and how a human being would react for real. She threw up the first time she killed just like the main character of far cry 3, but then just like him, im guessing it becomes just a normal occurrence and easier like a serial killer does it(or maybe she's just in shock from her situation who knows yet)


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not sure if they explain _why_ it's easier but it is brought up in the actual dialogue which that it _is_ I think is a good thing. It was something I noticed a lot of people talking about how she seems to get so into being willing to kill. Though I'm not sure how strong they're going to go with "realism" since they're working to build her up to this persona that she was formerly known as (though they did recently admit she isn't going to be so snide and snarky as she was previously). Lara was always larger-than-life so curious to see where they take her after this.

EDIT:



> Later she's a stronger person, but the game reminds us that this comes at a cost. On the radio to her pal Roth, Lara says she had to kill people to get this far. "That must have been hard" says Roth. "It's scary how easy it was," she replies. It's bittersweet moments like these which are really impressive about Tomb Raider so far. We see Lara transform from a normal young person into a computer game character and it's kind of tragic. At the same time, she's able to just get on with it.
> 
> "Some of the tests Lara has to endure are physical," Pratchett says "but others are tests of how she thinks about herself. Being 21-years-old is not easy in the sense that you're still trying to get to know yourself. She struggles with things like having to take a human life, and she struggles with how unfortunately easy it was to just squeeze the trigger.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

Okay, so its not really that she becomes corrupted. What a slight disappointment  But i guess her mental toughness comes from a different place then Alan's. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out from a perspective of rebooting the game to make it to the starting point again


Speaking of realism, that's what attracted me to FFVersus13. Stella's not supposed to be a conventional japanese female bad animu archetype as Nomura has said even in comparison to other FF females. She's supposed to be like a normal person who lives in this world based on reality but really isn't. And she's a soldier who essentially goes out to battle as well while still being pretty normal on off days. She's not overtly sexualized and takes up a huge portion of the game(according to him) as the antagonist character with her backstory being one of the most important.
*
Compared to Toriyama's shit fest its like a taking a hot shower and lathering up with soap after spending the day swimming in garbage at the fucking dump
*
That's the kind of characterization i really like in games. Its not overdone or overwraught, its just like you'd expect but can still be poignant if executed in the right way


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

Just a shame that the game will never come out. 

Sorry. Couldn't quite help myself there.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 15, 2013)

If this year goes by with no info on this game im gonna have to start believing that. Good thing to note though, that the announcement of PS4 pretty much sets off warning bells for both TLG and FFV in my head for various reasons about an incoming update.

Anyway, yeah, the setting of remember me seems decent, I just hope that they can give the main character some life i think she's missing right now


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## Krory (Feb 15, 2013)

If not, at least the combo lab looks cool.  And another cyberpunk game is always a plus. As far as they've said so far it seems more like she's made to challenge the stereotypes. They made a non-white female to go against the grain because these things shouldn't matter and they wanted to try and prove that it doesn't matter. They talk quite a bit about how we're in 2012 and we need to move past this stereotype that only white male characters will sell because of the old stigma that only white, male, geeky kids are playing video games.

It sounds like they're trying to bank more on the typical story and the world of Neo-Paris than the character personality itself, so not wholly sure myself. They haven't said a lot on it - one of the producers said they went with a female because it made more sense in context of the memory aspect of everything as they were going for strong emotion and intimacy and it fits better with a female character (still sexist ) but another writer talking about her said that she's not someone that is scared and that we will want to cry with - she's a "strong female" who is just very confused (because of the cliche amnesia plot).

At least I think that's what they said. Some of their accents are very strong. 

So it's really up in the air at this moment but the game still looks entertaining to me so I'll give it a try.


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## Mael (Feb 16, 2013)

Krory said:


> A female doesn't need to be mindlessly prancing around in nothing at all or overly-revealing clothing to be "sexy" though.



Yeah well someone fax Japan a memo of that.



Inuhanyou said:


> Or who knows
> 
> I can't really disparage Ico and SOTC without getting into a huge fisticuffs about preset gender roles going back centuries
> 
> Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on your view) that's the era we live in today



Well those two games were quite the fantasy way out there games so if anything they should be getting a pass.

I'm gonna email Yager Development...get us a good female character that isn't Lara Croft, stat.


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## Ultimania (Feb 16, 2013)

I see that sexism is still strong in the gaming industry, which is sad and pathetic. This is 2013, so people should have ceased acting like children...but I guess I'm wrong.


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 16, 2013)

You have sonic in your sig


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## Mael (Feb 16, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> You have sonic in your sig


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## Wesley (Feb 16, 2013)

I wouldn't buy a Gears game with a female lead.  Gears is a macho, manly game series.  Big muscles, big guys, doing big, manly things.  A chick would kill the atmosphere.  Even if she were extremely butch.  I couldn't get past the fact that there's a girl in my Gears game simply because she is a girl.  Because some pinheads out there in lala-land thought absolutely everything must be all inclusive, which really means that men aren't allowed to have their own things.


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## kazuri (Feb 16, 2013)

I wonder if there are people on those dressup/style games saying they need really macho men characters in them..

Two of my favorite games has female leads. Well they would be in top 10 games/franchises. Resident evil 2 one of my favorite games period, and tomb raider is one of my favorite franchises(altho I havent played the last 2 or 3)

They should make a GTA that has optional male or female lead.


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## Krory (Feb 16, 2013)

Wesley said:


> I wouldn't buy a Gears game with a female lead.  Gears is a macho, manly game series.  Big muscles, big guys, doing big, manly things.  A chick would kill the atmosphere.  Even if she were extremely butch.  I couldn't get past the fact that there's a girl in my Gears game simply because she is a girl.  Because some pinheads out there in lala-land thought absolutely everything must be all inclusive, which really means that men aren't allowed to have their own things.



I guess you didn't enjoy Gears 2, 3, or any of the expanded content (books, comics)?


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## Inuhanyou (Feb 16, 2013)

It made sense to have female characters in gears fighting. Like in the lore, females were just bred or in battle cause it was that desperate for human race propagation. But then it got even more desperate to the point where they needed to be fighting without worrying about breeding. 

It makes perfect sense in gears context


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## Krory (Feb 16, 2013)

I forget when Anya's mother, Helena, was first mentioned but she was a big part of the past, as was Bernie Mataki.


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## Mael (Feb 16, 2013)

Krory said:


> I forget when Anya's mother, Helena, was first mentioned but she was a big part of the past, as was Bernie Mataki.



Usually those sorts of games that involve futuristic weaponry, themes, or some impending doom scenario is going to have women put up on the frontlines since this is sort of that "everyone fights, no one quits" thing going on.

Damn it though I want Yager Development to do something.  Maybe make a female Captain Walker.


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## Krory (Feb 16, 2013)

WAIT, JAKE BUSEY WAS IN SPEC OPS?

NOW I NEED TO BUY IT.


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## Mael (Feb 16, 2013)

Dude yeah he was.

He was the Radioman. 

Also, Christopher "Kid" (from Kid n' Play) Reid was 1LT Adams.


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## Deathbringerpt (Feb 16, 2013)

Krory said:


> WAIT, JAKE BUSEY WAS IN SPEC OPS?
> 
> NOW I NEED TO BUY IT.



As awesome as Jake Busey is, that's a pretty wrong reason to want to play Spec Ops. You'll know what I mean when you actually play the game.


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## Krory (Feb 16, 2013)

It was on my list regardless.

Icing on the carrot cake.


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## Krory (Feb 27, 2013)

Writer for AC: Liberation, Jill Murray, speaks about "diverse" lead characters in titles. This article alone actually kind of makes me want to try Liberation.



> Speaking to Kotaku in an interesting feature on Aveline’s creation, Murray said some of those arguing in defence of all-white, all-male casts are being creatively lazy.
> 
> “[There's a] fear that ‘diverse’ characters are risky and might offend or alienate players by their simple inclusion — that including them requires a magic touch, special bravery, a trembling sensitivity, or a mandate to ignore sales,” she said.
> 
> ...


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## Wan (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh come on.


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## Krory (Feb 28, 2013)

Though one has to wonder how she acquired that much space-make-up and how she keeps it so clean.


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## Dolohov27 (Feb 28, 2013)

He's right, no gamer wants pussy. Its all dick or gtfo.


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## Krory (Feb 28, 2013)

Glad we had that amazingly insightful input.


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## andrea (Mar 1, 2013)

i remember when i was a kid my dad bought me my first computer and introduced me to video games. i was so excited because half my class at school was into video games and i wanted to play with them, but this jackass of a kid told me that girls can't play video games because there are no female leads, so only boys are allowed to play them. for a while i only played stuff like the sims or age of empires because i thought you couldn't play video games with a male lead if you were a girl.

then i discovered tomb raider and it was A WHOLE NEW WORLD


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## Slice (Mar 1, 2013)

The Gears games are meant to be played coop anyways. So you always have two lead characters and i dont see why one of them could not be female. No one complained when you had the girls in your 4 man squads with you in gears 3 why would there be less sales if one got promoted to "main character" status?

I read a review a few years back that said "Gears of War is not a game, its a badass simulator" and that also applys to its female characters.


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