# Should Robin/Nightwing/Batgirl be in Nolan's Batman movies?



## Bender (Aug 4, 2008)

The man responsible for the beautiful masterpiece film Batman  Begins and  The Dark Knight

Do you think he can bring in the whole Bat family in? 

I'm sort of torn...Bringing in all the kids would mean turning the whole thing into a mess and destroying the realistic atmosphere that blessed the last two films but means we would be treated to more action and possibly be plagued by kiddie dialogue and shit that you would see in a Power Rangers or Spidey film.


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## Chee (Aug 4, 2008)

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.


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## Gaiash (Aug 4, 2008)

I think Robin should make an appearence but not in the next film. If a fourth Batman film is made I would like it to be about Robin. His origin is serious and I would love to get a better look at the more serious side of Robin. He'd have to be Dick Grayson but his design should be Tim Drake inspired.

I honestly believe that Nolan has the potential to show people that Robin isn't just a light hearted teenager and that he can and has had serious moments.


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## Chee (Aug 4, 2008)

I doubt there will be a fourth one, if there is it probably won't be Nolan. Nolan, from an interview, seems to be the type of guy that focuses more on story and theme than just overall "action and adventure". I think the third one will be Nolan's last, and I hope it will be. I hate when series go more than three movies anyways (some exceptions of course).


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## Bender (Aug 4, 2008)

^

Like.....? 

You don't think Batman would be good if it had a fourth film? 

What kinda Batman fan are you?


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## Stalin (Aug 4, 2008)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


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## Chee (Aug 4, 2008)

Harry Potter, its a 7 movie series but its still good. 

Nah, I'm all abroad for a fourth film cause I love Batman, but I don't think its the smartest idea. So far Nolan has begun Batman, challenged Batman and now he's gonna end Batman. It has three all over it, I don't think a fourth is coming.


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## Rukia (Aug 4, 2008)

Chee said:


> I doubt there will be a fourth one, if there is it probably won't be Nolan. Nolan, from an interview, seems to be the type of guy that focuses more on story and theme than just overall "action and adventure". I think the third one will be Nolan's last, and I hope it will be. I hate when series go more than three movies anyways (some exceptions of course).


Bale is only under contract to do one more also.  Bale is the type of actor that will want to move on and do something new after third film, and I can't see them replacing both Bale and Nolan just to make a 4th movie.

Sorry Blaze, but I agree with Chee.  I think the 3rd movie will be the last.


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## Gaiash (Aug 4, 2008)

Chee said:


> Harry Potter, its a 7 movie series but its still good.
> 
> Nah, I'm all abroad for a fourth film cause I love Batman, but I don't think its the smartest idea. So far Nolan has begun Batman, challenged Batman and now he's gonna end Batman. It has three all over it, I don't think a fourth is coming.


I wouldn't mind a fourth film to end his Batman story. I feel that Robin joining Batman should be the end of his series because it allows Robin to be there without annoying anyone.


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## Felt (Aug 4, 2008)

No, they would ruin it


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## martryn (Aug 4, 2008)

Well, the ideal way to do it is to introduce a 12-13 year old Robin now, in a third movie, and just not have him be anything but Dick Grayson.  Keep him out of the super hero thing.  Maybe toward the end of the movie he discovers somehow that Bruce is Batman, but otherwise, he's not an essential part of the story.  

Then, three or four years after the third movie, finally release a last movie, and have Robin already be an established sidekick.  A serious sidekick, without any of that lame ass banter.  Maybe have him more light hearted and show his fall from innocence to follow Batman, after which he decides that staying around Bruce is not healthy for him, and there you've got your Nightwing.  

I don't know.  I'm not a huge fan of Batman, but I just don't want the tone of the movies to get too fucked up.


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## Gaiash (Aug 4, 2008)

Hollie said:


> No, they would ruin it


Don't be so sure. If they just stick to the origin of Robin it could work. Before The Dark Knight I wasn't much of a fan of Two-Face but when I heard he was going to be in the film I was interested in how they'd portray him and it was the best Two-Face yet.

I think that Nolan can create the best live action Robin but he should only add him when he thinks it is right otherwise things could go wrong.


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## CrazyMoronX (Aug 4, 2008)

I think Robin should be in there, should be black, and should be mentally handicapped.

Diversity, people!


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

Maybe a Dick Grayson cameo, but definitly not as Robin. If he introduces any of them they should be older, late teens. And not in the third movie. Maybe in 4th or 5th if they go that far.


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## escamoh (Aug 4, 2008)

i'd like to see it

if anyone can pull a good robin off it's nolan

nightwing would be easy to do


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## Felt (Aug 4, 2008)

Gaiash said:


> Don't be so sure. If they just stick to the origin of Robin it could work. Before The Dark Knight I wasn't much of a fan of Two-Face but when I heard he was going to be in the film I was interested in how they'd portray him and it was the best Two-Face yet.
> 
> I think that Nolan can create the best live action Robin but he should only add him when he thinks it is right otherwise things could go wrong.



I guess if done right it would be good.  But I have bad memories of Robin in a film xD


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## Chee (Aug 4, 2008)

I just don't wanna see no underaged fruit in tights running around with Batman.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

Yes, change up the colors. Give him all black suit. I think he could skip the robin stage and just put in nightwing. Give robin a flashback


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## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm torn, I love the characters and if Nolan really puts his heart into it he could make them work, but again you can only suspend disbelief for so long in movies than you can in comics.


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## Chee (Aug 4, 2008)

Suit me up uncle Alfred.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

Nightwing film would be epic.

Lol Nightwing vs Jason Todd. Epic shit.


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## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

Though I do however think that a Nolan Nightwing film would be as badass if not better than his Batfilms 

Dixon's Bl?dhaven is a much darker and twisted place than Gotham on many levels and the way the criminals work there fits in more with Nolan's world than the comics Gotham.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

Indeed Really almost anything Nolan creates is badass.


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## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

yeah and Blockbuster >>>> most Gotham crime bosses


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

I would have to agree with that.

But if Robin is ever introduced, I want him to be introduced Miller style

_"What are you dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? Im the Goddamn Batman."_


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## Castiel (Aug 4, 2008)

you mean where Batman just kidnaps him and tells him _"we're going to fight crime you little son of a bitch"_


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

If hes not calling robin a bitch, Nolan isnt doin it right


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## Gaiash (Aug 4, 2008)

Hollie said:


> I guess if done right it would be good.  But I have bad memories of Robin in a film xD


And that is exactly why I want to see Nolan introduce Robin, to redeem him. I think Robin has had great moments in the comics and even in animation but in the films we never got to see the best side of Robin.



mike9193 said:


> Yes, change up the colors. Give him all black suit. I think he could skip the robin stage and just put in nightwing. Give robin a flashback


Thats why I suggested a Tim Drake inspired design. In fact I would be all for a Tim Drake/Nightwing combination for his outfit.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 4, 2008)

That could work. I think Nolan could put Robin in this film without destroying the tone he has created. I mean with whatever he does it cant be as bad as Batman & Robin or Batman Forever.


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## MOTO (Aug 4, 2008)

I wouldn't mind but if you put in Robin then you would lose Bale as Batman. Cuz I remember him saying from an article I read that he would quit the franchise if Robin is introduce into the films.


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## Serp (Aug 4, 2008)

I don't know but they already had a Cameo of little miss Gordan  I could so see something to do with her dad, Bruce and epic


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## Gaiash (Aug 4, 2008)

Elite said:


> I wouldn't mind but if you put in Robin then you would lose Bale as Batman. Cuz I remember him saying from an article I read that he would quit the franchise if Robin is introduce into the films.


I'm sure if Robin was written in well he might stay. If it is ever confirmed that Bale and Robin are in the movie we'll know Robin is finally getting redeemed.


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## Bender (Aug 4, 2008)

Elite said:


> I wouldn't mind but if you put in Robin then you would lose Bale as Batman. Cuz I remember him saying from an article I read that he would quit the franchise if Robin is introduce into the films.



You serious? 

Then forget that 

Anyone else other than Bale as Batman=Failure


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## mystictrunks (Aug 4, 2008)

I don't think it would work. You either end up with some old ass dude like in Batman forever and lose the parallel between Batman and Robin or you get a kid and every fight their in will look ridiculous.


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## ~Avant~ (Aug 4, 2008)

If anything Batgirl is definately out since, Barbara was made into Gordons wife in the films


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## The Drunken Monkey (Aug 4, 2008)

Noo, dear god no don't bring these little nubs.

Though Jason Todd, I would not mind.


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## mystictrunks (Aug 4, 2008)

~Avant~ said:


> If anything Batgirl is definately out since, Barbara was made into Gordons wife in the films



Barbara is the name of both his wife and niece.


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## Zeroo (Aug 5, 2008)

They could try doin a stand alone Robin film with a Batman cameo towards the end saying 'We're putting a team together..'


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## Cindy (Aug 5, 2008)

Nah, not really.

Maybe a Nightwing solo movie.. I'd watch that. Especially if the outfit is based on Nightwing's current outfit and be true to the character with lots of butt and crotch shots.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 5, 2008)

I think in the third film they may have a Dick Grayson cameo, but not as Robin. And if he is ever Robin it should defintly be Dick or Jason Todd.


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## the_sloth (Aug 5, 2008)

No sidekicks.  Not only because I don't want them in the films, but they'd be too young in the current timeline of Nolan's universe.


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## Gaiash (Aug 5, 2008)

the_sloth said:


> they'd be too young in the current timeline of Nolan's universe.


Thats why I think it should be the fourth film. Have another film with Batman alone and then end the series with Robin.


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## the_sloth (Aug 5, 2008)

Even if there was a 4th film, it would have to be something like a 10 year timeskip in the storyline.  But even if that was the case, Robin on the Big Screen just won't work out too well without making it too childish.  I'm strongly against the idea.


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## Gaiash (Aug 5, 2008)

the_sloth said:


> Even if there was a 4th film, it would have to be something like a 10 year timeskip in the storyline.  But even if that was the case, Robin on the Big Screen just won't work out too well without making it too childish.  I'm strongly against the idea.


There have been moments were Robin has worked well. I believe that his origin can be done well. Just because Robin can be childish it doesn't mean thats all there is to him. People seem to forget that like Batman the first Robin lost his parents, I seriously doubt we're going to see him cracking jokes that soon after his parents died.

I personaly believe that Robin should be in a new Batman movie but he should spend most of the movie as Dick Grayson and only spend a small amount of time as Robin. The movie shouldn't be about Robin.


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## Jotun (Aug 5, 2008)

The whole reasoning behind Robin and the other sidekicks was to lighten up the Batman comics because he was too dark and kids were afraid of him.

I could do with cameos at the end of Nolan's films as a nod to the comics, but thats about it.


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## Gaiash (Aug 5, 2008)

Jotun said:


> The whole reasoning behind Robin and the other sidekicks was to lighten up the Batman comics because he was too dark and kids were afraid of him.
> 
> I could do with cameos at the end of Nolan's films as a nod to the comics, but thats about it.


Yes but he still has had serious moments. As long as they stick to one movie with him they can keep it serious.


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## the_sloth (Aug 5, 2008)

The thing is that the introduction of someone like Robin _will_ make it more childish.  If he wasn't joking or immature, then he'd just be an emo.  And that is even worse IMO.


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## Jotun (Aug 5, 2008)

Gaiash said:


> Yes but he still has had serious moments. As long as they stick to one movie with him they can keep it serious.



The only serious thing about Robin is maybe Nightwing.

I still find Robin a joke and so many writers have tried, but ya.

What happens when you bring in someone like Robin is this:

Batman has a side kick, someone he potentially talks with during crime fighting.

That is already really lame. Then you have the whole costume fiasco.

I have always hated the Robin concept because it never made too much sense to begin with. Not in a real worldish take like Nolan's.

The only thing I can see Nolan doing is Bruce taking in Dick at the end of his Batman movie streak.

If you want Robin go watch Forever and Batman n Robin


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## Gaiash (Aug 5, 2008)

Jotun said:


> If you want Robin go watch Forever and Batman n Robin


I want to see Robin done well. I want him to be redeemed in live action. I've seen great moments for the character in comics and animation. Those movies had too much Robin as well, I want him to have a small role.


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## 寫輪眼 (Aug 5, 2008)

Robin should make an appearance, not that I like the character or anything, but it's kinda important for him to show up sometime in the new chain of Batman remakes. Then quickly transform him into Nightwing. Judging from what they did to Batman's outfit, I know if they do Nightwing, his outfit will turn out great.


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## BIG Buddie (Aug 5, 2008)

no it would be to dreamworld like there would be a 9 year old beating the hell out of a hardened criminal


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## Mikaveli (Aug 5, 2008)

I dont see why they just dont give him a cameo. Everyone knows who he is. Then if they wanted they could give him his own films after Batman is finished.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 5, 2008)

Yes I think they set it up for Bat girl since they sort of mentioned her in this movie and I think if they do Robin it would be fine, but there's a lot of seriousness to the story. Like Bat girl becoming paralyzed later and wheelchair bound and how Robin lost his family. 

I think they should find some way to write Robin so his family dies but not the whole circus thing. Also they should change his costume...make it black or something, not that gaudy shit he usually wears, you know? 

They could do this if they are careful and use good treatment of the source material while updating and modernizing it.


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## escamoh (Aug 5, 2008)

i don't think they can do the paralyzing thing...it was joker who paralyzed batgirl wasn't it? and now he's dead


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 5, 2008)

Keep it to just Batman.

The notion of a KID sidekick is stupid. Seriously.


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## the_sloth (Aug 5, 2008)

It won't work.  Unless the film revolves pretty much entirely around Robin, a 2.5/3 hour movie won't be long enough unless it becomes a campfest.  The only reason it works in animation is because the character is built over many episodes.  Also, its a lot easier to introduce him as well.


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## Irishwonder (Aug 6, 2008)

I'd be interested in Nightwing getting his own film the problem would be getting there though.  

I think at the end of the third film they should have Bruce Wayne picking up a flyer or newspaper or something that promotes the Flying Graysons and having him tell Alfred that he might just go see that and have the film end there.  This way it gives a little nod to the fans about Robin without actually having him in it.


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## Mikaveli (Aug 6, 2008)

Yeah have a Robin cameo and leave it at that. I f they ever want to exapnd they can make a teen titans movie I guess, or just have him as Nightwing, but not in this series of movies.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Aug 6, 2008)

escamoh said:


> i don't think they can do the paralyzing thing...it was joker who paralyzed batgirl wasn't it? and now he's dead



That's true, but I would like to see a solid, independent DC universe exist between a string of movies...though I doubt that will happen.


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## Castiel (Aug 6, 2008)

IGN is spying on us >_>





> Bringing Robin Back to Batman Films
> Should the Boy Wonder be in Christopher Nolan's third movie? If so, in what form?
> by Dan Phillips
> August 5, 2008 - Ever since Batman Begins unleashed Christopher Nolan's dark, sophisticated and pseudo-realistic take on Batman's world to the masses back in 2005, one of the hottest topics of debate within the comics fan community has been whether or not the Robin character could ever translate to the big screen in a believable manner.
> ...


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## Juanita Tequila (Aug 6, 2008)

NO!

But it wouldn't hurt to have a cameo appearance from Dick or Tim. !


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## the_sloth (Aug 6, 2008)

At best a cameo.  But I don't want them to make it so blatantly obvious.  Something like a poster in the background promoting the Flying Graysons would be the best way IMO.


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## Castiel (Aug 6, 2008)

I stand by that the IGN answer to Q #1 is 100% truth


also I'd agree with this assessment



> In adapting the character, future filmmakers would do well to follow the lead of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's Dark Victory and keep Dick Grayson out of costume for as long as possible. Don't be afraid to keep Dick Grayson in a supporting capacity for an extended period of time, introducing his origins in the beginning of a film, stretching his development out over the course of the movie while focusing on his burgeoning relationship with Bruce. From there, you can delve into his training, and perhaps have him debut as Batman's sidekick in the very last minutes of the film. You can even stretch his origin story out over two features. The important thing is that slow and steady will win the race when it comes to adapting Robin, and it's all about focusing on his human relationship with Bruce in an intelligent and emotional manner. If filmmakers succeed in doing that, audiences will likely accept and hopefully even cheer when he makes his debut at Batman's side.



for those who need reminding:

In Dark Victory, Bruce saw the death of the flying Graysons and seeing the parallels between him and dick, he impulsively adopted him.  and then dick found the cave and trained.  and then put on a mask and bitch slapped Joker at the end of DV. (the climax took place in the bat cave)


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## Bender (Aug 6, 2008)

Kilowog said:


> I stand by that the IGN answer to Q #1 is 100% truth
> 
> 
> also I'd agree with this assessment



I never read the Dark Victory 

Bruce kept Dick around even though he wasn't in his costume? 

Btw you got scans? 

Ya can PM me or something?


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## Podman (Aug 6, 2008)

For the next Batman movie they could show Dick Grayson's orgin story and then have him come to Wayne Manor and try to become Batman's side kick and then the whole film could be about Batman beating a kid wearing red and green tights to death.


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## Bushin (Aug 6, 2008)

Chee said:


> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.



Enough said! Thread end.


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## Castiel (Aug 6, 2008)

Blaze of Glory said:


> I never read the Dark Victory
> 
> Bruce kept Dick around even though he wasn't in his costume?
> 
> ...



about maybe 30-40% of the plot of both Begins and TDK comes from the "Halloween Duology" of Long Halloween and Dark Victory, if you haven't read them, DO SO NOW.

also for DL, go check kaskus or something


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## Gaiash (Aug 6, 2008)

I would be all for a movie with Bruce taking Dick Grayson under his care but him not becoming Robin. He could learn about his identity but stay on the sidelines and at the end of the movie bring up the idea of becoming his sidekick. That way we get Dick Grayson but he won't get in Batman's way.


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## Castiel (Aug 6, 2008)

that's basically what Dick did in DV, he just put on a mask at the last minute and beat up Joker and Batman was all "what the fuck??????"

it would also be a nice loophole to keep Bale, since it doesn't _star_ Robin


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## pierrot harly (Aug 13, 2008)

That is not going to happen with the dark over tone of these movies.


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## Ryuk (Aug 13, 2008)

Nightwing could be epic.


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## Butō Rengoob (Aug 14, 2008)

_No, to Robin and Batgirl. Maybe Nightwing. Either way he shouldn't show up until the fourth movie if they make one._


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## Gaiash (Aug 14, 2008)

Joe Gear said:


> _No, to Robin and Batgirl. Maybe Nightwing. Either way he shouldn't show up until the fourth movie if they make one._


But the first Robin and Nightwing are the same person. What about Dick Grayson with his Nightwing personality and a Tim Drake style costume, that way we get Robin without annoying anyone.


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## Parallax (Aug 14, 2008)

Didn't Nolan and Bale both say that they don't want a Robin in any of the movies?


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## Cair (Aug 14, 2008)

As much as I'd love to see the Flying Graysons die, I'd say no.
or any other parental unit that dies in the series. 

I don't think that Robin/Nightwing/Batgirl (especially Batgirl ) would do any good for the movies/Batman. They would probably just get in the way and make the movie not as epic. I think Batman would be best alone.


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## Gaiash (Aug 14, 2008)

Elijah Snow said:


> Didn't Nolan and Bale both say that they don't want a Robin in any of the movies?


Nolan said that he was working on the early years of Batman's career and that Robin would be too young. He didn't say he didn't want him.

I think I'm going to hope for Dick Grayson become Robin but have him go on a solo career at the end of the movie to avoid him getting to the point where he makes jokes. That also leaves it open for Nightwing to enter the picture.


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## masamune1 (Aug 14, 2008)

escamoh said:


> i don't think they can do the paralyzing thing...it was joker who paralyzed batgirl wasn't it? and now he's dead



The Joker is still alive, unless you mean Heath Ledger.

Anyway, on topic, I've always thought that Robin is a pretty essential part of the Batman mythos, and I stand by that statement. The irony is, the darker and grittier Batman gets the more necessary someone like Robin becomes, because it would eventually get to the point that not only would Batman need some help, but he and Gotham would also get so dark that that the only believable options would be madness, suicide, giving up the "mantle of the bat", or Batman breaking his "one rule". None of which are options.

However, like other people I'm also ready to accept Dick Grayson as just Dick Grayson in a film, maybe the film ending with him finding out Bruce's secret. 
Dick is more important as an emotional anchor, in some ways a better one than Alfred since he and Bruce are going through the same thing. The only difference is that he's managed to stay more optimistic, which in the end just makes him healthy for Bruce.

And as for all that stuff about ending this with a 4th film, dream on. These films will go on for years as long as the keep making money and keep the fans happy, and since the whole idea about a series failing by the third one is just plain wrong (it's common, but it did'nt happen to Bourne, or Bond, or a few others I could mention) as long as they stay good they could make a dozen new _Batman_ films.

They are doing the early years of Batman's mission, and unlike the Burton/ Schumacher films they don't kill off the villains as a reflection of that, which let's them re-use them for future stories (and makes it less about the villains in the process. What they probably have in mind is that these first three films are a trilogy; any fourth film would be the start of a new trilogy and would introduce a new overarching theme (this one's is Escalation, and the rise of Batman's Rougue's Gallery). They sure as hell won't end it there.


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## JBarnz008 (Aug 14, 2008)

Chee said:


> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.



I agree, 

bringing in the bat family would destroy the realistic atmosphere.


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## Gaiash (Aug 15, 2008)

JB the Jedi said:


> I agree,
> 
> bringing in the bat family would destroy the realistic atmosphere.


No it wouldn't. There is nothing unrealistic about Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon and Tim Drake. They are just as human as Bruce. The only thing people are worried about is it losing its serious nature however there have been serious stories involving the Robin's and Batgirl.


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