# Batman: Under the Red Hood - July 27, 2010



## John Carter of Mars (Jul 6, 2010)

*Title: Batman - Under the Red Hood
Synopsis*:
Batman faces his ultimate challenge as the mysterious Red Hood takes  Gotham City by firestorm. One part vigilante, one part criminal kingpin,  Red Hood begins cleaning up Gotham with the efficiency of Batman, but  without following the same ethical code. Killing is an option. And when  the Joker falls in the balance between the two, hard truths are revealed  and old wounds are reopened.
_*-IMDb*_
*Release:*
July 27, 2010
*Sneak peeks & insiders *
Link removed

Link removed

Thoughts...
I don't know why I posted this. But I did enjoy the previous  Batman animated movies that were released a few years back - i.e. 'Gotham Knight' & 'Batman Beyond Movie'. I hope this is good. It is kind of rather cliche.
The story takes place a little bit after Robin's death (the second robin) - the first Robin is in this movie as well, as an older person and different super hero: Night wing. I hope this goes well and ends well.
I've been watching interviews, behind the scenes, and been kind of convinced that they've done their best to make, produce, and provide fans a good story full of suspense and bleakness :3. 
Voice actors are pretty decent too. Chosen well I guess to fit and personify each character. Your thoughts?


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## Chee (Jul 6, 2010)

Whoa, big picture. Please put that in spoiler tags or something.


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## Bear Walken (Jul 6, 2010)

Down size that friend.


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## Castiel (Jul 6, 2010)

Voice cast has me interested, plus I loved the original story


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## Tyrion (Jul 6, 2010)

Fuck, for a minute I thought it was a live action movie 
I wud have jizzed if it was


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## Bluebeard (Jul 6, 2010)

fucking Jensen Ackles as Red Hood


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 6, 2010)

_"I can't trust you Sam!"_

_"But Dean..."_


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## ~Gesy~ (Jul 6, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> _"I can't trust you Sam!"_
> 
> _"But Dean..."_



gets me every time


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## Bluebeard (Jul 6, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> _"I can't trust you Sam!"_
> 
> _"But Dean..."_



You know it.


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## Gabe (Jul 6, 2010)

looks good and the red hood will be voiced by the actor that plays dean in supernatural gotham nights and the other movies where good.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jul 6, 2010)

not only we he be playing red hood in the movie, but he'll also play him in the new batman game coming up.


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## The Potential (Jul 7, 2010)

I watch & enjoy every DC/Marvel animated movie so yes i'm looking forward to it.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 7, 2010)

Nightwing is in this movie 

Voiced by Neil Patrick Harris


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## Chee (Jul 7, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Nightwing is in this movie
> 
> Voiced by Neil Patrick Harris



Win right there.


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## Ema Skye (Jul 7, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Nightwing is in this movie
> 
> Voiced by Neil Patrick Harris



This. Pretty much the main reason I want to see Batman: Under the Red Hood.


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## Chee (Jul 7, 2010)

Ema Skye said:


> This. Pretty much the main reason I want to see Batman: Under the Red Hood.



My main reason is because my boyfriend is co-starring in it.


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## -Dargor- (Jul 8, 2010)

B-b-but, this is wrong, JH should be batman, refer to sig 


PS I was also hoping for a the 3rd live-action batman, but its way too early for that


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## John Carter of Mars (Jul 8, 2010)

Btw another semi - batman movie is coming up later on. Another batman / superman mash-up o joy... the other one called 'public enemies' looked disappointing after watching clips of it.
*Batman / Superman Apocalypse*


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## Castiel (Jul 8, 2010)

Dick and Jason's voices are great choices.  But Greenwood as Batman also sounds promising.


Andrea Romano is the best VA casting director.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 8, 2010)

Dick Grayson NEEDS to say "Suit up!" in this movie. *NEEDS TO*.


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## -Dargor- (Jul 9, 2010)

wun rayjin ajun said:


> the other one called 'public enemies' looked disappointing after watching clips of it.



Watched it with my kid a while back, was pretty good actually (for a cartoon movie anyway). Decent plotline, good animation/designs and its always fun to watch batman/superman take on everyone else


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## Mr Plow (Jul 9, 2010)

I'm looking forward to watching this


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 9, 2010)

-Dargor- said:


> Watched it with my kid a while back, was pretty good actually (for a cartoon movie anyway). Decent plotline, good animation/designs and its always fun to watch batman/superman take on everyone else



Definitely.

Not sure if it made it into the movie, but one of my favorite bats/supes quotes is from an issue of the comic.

Supes: They're all around us.
Bats: Do you think we can take them? I think we can take them.
Supes: You _always_ think we can take them.

Spoiler alert: They can 

But im hoping we get an epic Batman+Nightwing team up.


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## Castiel (Jul 9, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> But im hoping we get an epic Batman+Nightwing team up.



The Amazo fight is in the movie


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## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]9qOdggdLPLM[/YOUTUBE]

John DiMaggio's Joker


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

"acquired" the movie recently...hrm hrm

was great

a couple sequences that would be amazing if transcribed to the nolanverse

especially the final fight between batman and red hood...jesus. it was like the scene from bourne ultimatum with CQC and apartment jumping...epic.

joker is great. especially the one scene where he's "thirsty".

and red hood is perfect. fucking badass.


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## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

How much did they keep from the book?


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

i've never actually read the red hood series...i might've when i read hush but if i did it was a long time ago and i really don't remember...sorry

it's an excellent movie though. i didn't expect anything and wasn't bored at all. felt like a lot more than 75 minutes.


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## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

> especially the final fight between batman and red hood...jesus. it was like the scene from bourne ultimatum with CQC and apartment jumping...epic.


Yeah that was one of the best parts of the book, do they keep RH ripping off the Cowl and then revealing himself?


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## Ema Skye (Jul 13, 2010)

Props to NPH, he sounds nothing like his usual self when he did the voice of Nightwing


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Yeah that was one of the best parts of the book, do they keep RH ripping off the Cowl and then revealing himself?



spoilers maybe 











during the final fight or when RH comes out of the lazarus pit?


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## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

kumabear said:


> spoilers maybe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll just post the scans from the comic


*Spoiler*: __ 




















(google only turned up spanish scans, but the art is awesome you don't really need the words)

also please tell me they kept the lulz between Black Mask and RH (if they didn't keep the Bazooka scene or I will rage)


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## Sorairo Warai (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> [YOUTUBE]9qOdggdLPLM[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> John DiMaggio's Joker



I like it. ^-^ It reminds me a bit of Mark Hamill's Joker.


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## -Dargor- (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> [YOUTUBE]9qOdggdLPLM[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> John DiMaggio's Joker



Wow, I'm impressed with the evilness he brings to it (sounds much darker and sadistic), altho he doesn't sound as insane as Hamill's.

Great job regardless, could be a good replacement.


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

The video of the Joker hitting Robin with a crow bar makes the fangirl inside VERY HAPPY.


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> I'll just post the scans from the comic
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



i'm just gonna keep it spoiler free and say yes

this movie will make you very happy 

it's almost the exact same. bazooka scene included lol.


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## Ema Skye (Jul 13, 2010)

Chee said:


> The video of the Joker hitting Robin with a crow bar makes the fangirl inside VERY HAPPY.



Or not the only one who got turn on because of that scene


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

jw

in the comic did their fight conclude in a bathroom mm?


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## Castiel (Jul 13, 2010)

kumabear said:


> it's almost the exact same. bazooka scene included lol.



"HUH. He runs fast when he wants to"

"how'd you survive?"
"I take spin classes "


I saw in the trailers the Amazo fight is in, is Freeze in too?  He's one of the first things I'd drop from the movie for time





kumabear said:


> jw
> 
> in the comic did their fight conclude in a bathroom mm?



don't think so, but I'll check


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## kumabear (Jul 13, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> "HUH. He runs fast when he wants to"
> 
> "how'd you survive?"
> "I take spin classes "
> ...



nah no freeze


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

Ema Skye said:


> Or not the only one who got turn on because of that scene



GET AWAY FROM MY BOYFRIEND


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## Ema Skye (Jul 13, 2010)

I already have another boyfriend and his name is Nightwing


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

Hahah, Nightwing. So not sexy. 

You have horrible taste in men.


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## Ema Skye (Jul 13, 2010)

How can you say he's not sexy?! he's voiced Neil Patrick Motherfucking Harris


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

EMA GOD DAMMIT I'M GONNA STEAL THAT SET OF YOURS.

Oh, and Joker >>>>>>>>>> all.


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2010)

Is this suposed to be leaked or something? Because I'm watching it right now


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## Ema Skye (Jul 13, 2010)

NEVER!!!1!!! 

Ok I admit, I had a crush on everybody in Under the Red Hood even Black Skull


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

I don't like the dude whose under the red hood. His voice is not sexy sexy.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 13, 2010)

Ema Skye said:


> I already have another boyfriend and his name is Nightwing





Banhammer said:


> Is this suposed to be leaked or something? Because I'm watching it right now



link plz


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

Oh my.


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> link plz



timeline


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

Red Hood is such an asshole. Beating up my poor Mistah Jay.


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## The Potential (Jul 13, 2010)

can't wait to see itttt!!!


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## Banhammer (Jul 13, 2010)

I just saw it


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 13, 2010)

shit was awesome son...i was rootin' for the Hood, cleanin' up gotham like your supposed to


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## Chee (Jul 13, 2010)

RAGING BONER said:


> shit was awesome son...i was rootin' for the Hood, cleanin' up gotham like your supposed to



Bullshit. That asshole needed to get beat up with a crow bar again.


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## Gabe (Jul 13, 2010)

movie was good jensen was good as the red hood but dimaggio as the joker was awesome.


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## RAGING BONER (Jul 14, 2010)

Chee said:


> Bullshit. That asshole needed to get beat up with a crow bar again.


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## -Dargor- (Jul 14, 2010)

Watched it, Red Hood wasn't as violent as he should have been imo, we barely get any blood. I understand they had to hold back but meh.

I was also hoping he'd at least shoot the joker in an arm/leg/shoulder or something.

I don't think they made him successfully shoot anyone on screen the entire movie...

Good movie regardless. (altho I wasn't too fond of Jensen's voice acting, it just felt off, but I guess its alright concidering it was his first time, he'll probably let loose some more on his next one)


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## Chee (Jul 14, 2010)

> Watched it, Red Hood wasn't as violent as he should have been imo, we barely get any blood. I understand they had to hold back but meh.



Are you serious? Did you not see the scene where the dude's blood sprayed all over the wall?


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 14, 2010)

We tried cleaning this city for years your way and look at how much you've accomplished... No from now on we're doing things my way.


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## firefist (Jul 14, 2010)

nice, looking forward to it.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 14, 2010)

Awesome movie.

Loved NPH as Nightwing, and loved how Jason Todd sounded like a darker, sadistic Dick Grayson, which is fitting.

Lots of badass fun lines from Jason. Love the *wave* "Wow, he sure can move when he really wants to" *launches rocket*


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## Castiel (Jul 14, 2010)

Does Jason still carry around a duffl bag full of severed drug dealer heads?


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## Castiel (Jul 14, 2010)

Ema Skye said:


> I already have another boyfriend and his name is Nightwing BATMAN



fixed


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## Gabe (Jul 14, 2010)

this movie was good wonder what batman movie will be next. Batman RIP and Final Crisis would be good.


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## In Brightest Day! (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm hoping for an animated Infinite Crisis next.

Also, anything involving Jason Todd, Nightwing and Neil Patrick Harris is epic. If only Marvel would bring out an animated movie featuring Avengers Quicksilver.


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## IsoloKiro (Jul 14, 2010)

I absolutely loved this movie. Did anyone else go HOLY **** when 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Batman jumped through the window of that car while it was being thrown at him?


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## -Dargor- (Jul 15, 2010)

Chee said:


> Are you serious? Did you not see the scene where the dude's blood sprayed all over the wall?



Notice the barely. What you're referring to is that barely.


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## firefist (Jul 15, 2010)

Watched it, was one awesome movie. The fights were nicely done.


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## Graham Aker (Jul 16, 2010)

Finally seen this and it really sucks. I mean, really sucks.  
The dialogue was just corny and lame especially in the ending. Black Mask was a gigantic pussy, Nightwing was campy, and the art and animation wasn't as good as the previous DTV's, quite a huge step back maybe budget problems? The only thing that I enjoyed watching throughout this film was the Joker. He stole the show I think. He saved that really lame ending scene, and his voice actor had a pretty awesome Joker laugh. The bathroom fight was also pretty nice. Still though, it sucks. It really sucks, but what can you expect from something written by Judd Winnick? 

I hope the next DTV won't be shitty like this, and won't be written by a shitty writer.

fail/10


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 16, 2010)

Mickey Mouse said:


> Does Jason still carry around a duffl bag full of severed drug dealer heads?



Not outright shown, but he does toss a squishy duffle bag filled with liutenant heads while saying "There's your luitenants, I did that in 2 hours."


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Jul 20, 2010)

I Gotta Feeling somethings gonna go BOOM!!!


*Spoiler*: __ 



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAE1_VzIEJQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## Wesley (Jul 20, 2010)

Someone please kill the Joker already...


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## Comic Book Guy (Jul 20, 2010)

It was alright for me.

Surprisingly, the Joker's delivery of Winnick's dialogue somewhat pleased me.


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## Edward Newgate (Jul 26, 2010)

This is complete bullshit

You can watch it now


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## Zen-aku (Jul 26, 2010)

John DiMaggio has created the  perfect balance between Heath Leger Nightmare Fuel and Mark Hamil Crazy Awesome

the entire thing was great especialy the "Why Dont u just kill him" speech at the end


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## RadishMan (Jul 26, 2010)

Watched it today. Pretty great outside of Nightwing.


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## Bender (Jul 27, 2010)

Rented the movie tonight

I love it 

  

John Dimaggio does a surprisingly alright Joker

I hate the art though

Like my complaints on most movies

The bloodless violence is kind of a downer for me 

Jason was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more violent in the comics 

Example:


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## Random Member (Jul 28, 2010)

I liked it.

Didn't care for Nightwing in this one (most likely due to the dialogue whenever he was around) nor the Joker but I still found it to be a pretty cool watch.

I especially enjoyed the last brawl and the flashback that was the ending scene for the movie got to me.


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## Emperor Joker (Jul 28, 2010)

Nightwing's entire emotion spectrum for this movie seemed to come down to two modes Annoyed and Surprised...


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## Hannibal (Jul 28, 2010)

I enjoyed it, had my kids watch it with me, had to explain the different Robins though lol 

I'm hoping for " The Killing Joke"," The Long Halloween", "Dark Knight Returns", "Year One" or even Kingdom Come get made soon


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## Bender (Jul 28, 2010)

Emperor Joker said:


> Nightwing's entire emotion spectrum for this movie seemed to come down to two modes Annoyed and Surprised...



Yeah, his appearance in the movie was annoying a fuck

Same with Freeze's absence from the film.

Red Hood vs Freeze was by far my fav in Under the hood arc in the comics


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## Travis Touchdown (Jul 28, 2010)

Great movie except for Nightwing...One of my favorite characters and he did not recieve justice. Over half of his dialogue was just him being impressed. Whether it be the android (you don't need to point out that it has lasers and can fly...Even if it was supposed to be for comedic purposes), Batman, or Red Hood.

Though Red Hood and Joker made the movie for me, Batman was awesome as usual as well.


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## typhoon72 (Jul 28, 2010)

I liked it overall. Personally, I thought the animation was way better than Public Enemies and the other DC movies besides Gotham Night (no shit).

NPH as Nightwing was weird though. He did a good job but he's the fucking Riddler, not Nightwing.


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## The Potential (Jul 28, 2010)

I watched it twice, i loved it, it was one of my favorites DC Animated movies. Can't believe that one guy/girl gave it a fail/10 man harsh. Guess everyone has different taste.


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## Taleran (Jul 28, 2010)

I didn't like it. The dialogue was clunky, Nightwing was terrible, the mystery was obvious, and I didn't even really like the original comic story.


Bah


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## The Potential (Jul 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> I didn't even really like the original comic story.



Well it's hard to believe you even gave the move a chance...


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## Bender (Jul 28, 2010)

^

What he said 

Come on now, Tal how could you not like the original comic story?


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## Taleran (Jul 28, 2010)

Very easily, the story was created to fix a mistake with another one, with a character with no reason to be back from the dead. Which also is completely different from the reasons I disliked the movie.


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## Bender (Jul 28, 2010)

Taleran said:


> Very easily, the story was created to fix a mistake with another one



You mean the fans and critics negative reaction to Jason Todd's death and crowbar beating prelude to it? 



> with a character with no reason to be back from the dead.



Jason was brought back to make Bruce face the mistakes he made during his early years as Batman. Not to mention Jason's re-appearance shook up much of the ranks of the Bat-family. Like Cassandra Cain he was one of the few pieces that didn't "fit in" and could go rogue at any time. Not to mention this is Batman. His life isn't one that isn't a straight dash like Supes. No, Bruce has to know the consequences for recruiting young boys into his fold and face the same demons that he does everyday. 

It would've been stupid if they did leave Jason dead. Back during his days as Robin Jason was like a Dick Grayson clone with barely any diversity separating him from Dick (sides the anger issues, will to kill, different hair) and conception one of the worst of DC in Bat history. Then come resurrection, he's like a completely different person. New direction, new look, new everything. If anything one of the worst things to have in a story is a copy cat character. In my opinion they changed Jason for the better.


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## Violent by Design (Jul 28, 2010)

It wouldn't have been stupid if they had left Jason dead. Jason Todd's death was the thing that made him unique amongst the Batman characters. That was his gimmick. 

Like you said, Jason Todd is now a different person - which brings the point of why even bringing back Jason Todd. They could have just made a new character.

Not to mention he was merely brought back for shock value. It's not like anyone was begging for Jason Todd to come back.


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## Bender (Jul 28, 2010)

> Like you said, Jason Todd is now a different person - which brings the point of why even bringing back Jason Todd. They could have just made a new character.



There wasn't time. DC comics was slowly gearing up for the OYL- which affected everyone in the DC verse.



> Not to mention he was merely brought back for shock value. It's not like anyone was begging for Jason Todd to come back.



And look at him now: Todd has his own fanbase


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## Taleran (Jul 28, 2010)

Bender said:


> You mean the fans and critics negative reaction to Jason Todd's death and crowbar beating prelude to it?



No Winnick's reason for writing the story



> I remember him saying in an interview that as a fan, he was a little let down by the fact that the reveal of Jason Todd as the villain behind "Hush" (which made absolutely no sense beyond just shock value) turned out to be a fake-out and wanted to do a real return of Jason Todd using that as a springboard.




Anyway the way the death of Jason Todd is set up in Death and the Family it cements it into such an important moment in the history of Batman that bringing him back cheapens that, much like Barry Allen and CoIE. The character better serves the purpose while dead than while alive.

Its not like say Bucky's death in Cap that was done off panel and in flashbacks so when the characters is brought back and good stories are told about them the fact that they were 'dead' for a time isn't the main focus of the character. For characters like Jason Todd and Barry Allen however the defining moment of their lives is still their death and probably will be for as long as this extended life of theirs lasts.


If they wanted to tell a Batman story with Jason Todd as a movie and make it hard hitting they should have just gone with Death in the Family.


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## Bender (Jul 29, 2010)

Taleran said:


> No Winnick's reason for writing the story



Yes, his reasons were indeed poor but he did make some success in his current placement in the Batfamily. 



> For characters like Jason Todd and Barry Allen however the defining moment of their lives is still their death and probably will be for as long as this extended life of theirs lasts.





> Anyway the way the death of Jason Todd is set up in Death and the Family it cements it into such an important moment in the history of Batman that bringing him back cheapens that, much like Barry Allen and CoIE. The character better serves the purpose while dead than while alive.



Haven't you figured it out yet? This is comic books. No one dies or stays dead...for long that is. Well except characters like Uncle Ben, Pa Kent. Unless they decide to retcon it something  which I highly doubt.



> Its not like say Bucky's death in Cap that was done off panel and in flashbacks so when the characters is brought back and good stories are told about them the fact that they were 'dead' for a time isn't the main focus of the character.



This is just my opinion but Cap's death was so hella fucking anti-climatic. Not to mention how they retconned it. "Wait, he's not dead?" The bullet sent him to the future?  



> If they wanted to tell a Batman story with Jason Todd as a movie and make it hard hitting they should have just gone with Death in the Family.



Now, *THAT* is completely 100% DC's fault. According my analysis they aren't keen about doing  silver age stories. Not to mention the completely and unaltered story was probably too gruesome to show. Just look at this movie there is like zero blood and gun action from Jason. They toned it down to critical levels. C'mon you don't see lil blood when someone beats your fucking ass with a *CROWBAR*.  

It was done unbelievably FUCKING poorly. Although, I can sort of understand although at the same time I protest their decision of cutting out the part of Jason looking for his mother and her role in screwing over her son, Jason. Her turning away and lighting up a cigarette while Joker is ruthlessly beating down her son was one of the most powerful moments in the story arc.


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## Taleran (Jul 29, 2010)

Bender said:


> Haven't you figured it out yet? This is comic books. No one dies or stays dead...for long that is. Well except characters like Uncle Ben, Pa Kent. Unless they decide to retcon it something  which I highly doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just my opinion but Cap's death was so hella fucking anti-climatic. Not to mention how they retconned it. "Wait, he's not dead?" The bullet sent him to the future?



To your first point yes I understand how comics work. There are exceptions as there are always.

I have no idea what you are on about with your second point since I liked how Brubaker handled Cap's death and wasn't even talking about Steve Rogers.


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## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Finally had time to see it.  Loved it, up there with Mask of the Phantasm





Taleran said:


> I didn't like it.


I'm so surprised




> the mystery was obvious


it's in the fucking title



> and I didn't even really like the original comic story.


I could die from shock



> Bah


please stop



also please shut the fuck up Blaze, you automatically make any side you're on wrong


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## Taleran (Jul 29, 2010)

The title does not tell you its Jason Todd under the hood you silly goose


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## Violent by Design (Jul 29, 2010)

It wasn't suppose to be a mystery...


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## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

> The title does not tell you its Jason Todd under the hood you silly goose


... You win this round 

But seriously a sizeable portion is going to know going in, and if not they'll get spoiled the moment they google or look at the case.


Will agree the dialogue was a bit clunky, but I felt the delivery by the VAs made up for it, I felt Joker was the weak link in the original story but was pleasantly surprised by most of the stuff I didn't like working when DiMaggio said it.


> Anyway the way the death of Jason Todd is set up in Death and the Family it cements it into such an important moment in the history of Batman that bringing him back cheapens that, much like Barry Allen and CoIE. The character better serves the purpose while dead than while alive.
> 
> Its not like say Bucky's death in Cap that was done off panel and in flashbacks so when the characters is brought back and good stories are told about them the fact that they were 'dead' for a time isn't the main focus of the character. For characters like Jason Todd and Barry Allen however the defining moment of their lives is still their death and probably will be for as long as this extended life of theirs lasts.


I was one of the guys who loved Under the Hood the comic so I really do not agree with what you're saying, I think the way it was done was almost as good as Winter Soldier, but I know this is something we're never going to agree on so whatever




> If they wanted to tell a Batman story with Jason Todd as a movie and make it hard hitting they should have just gone with Death in the Family.


*AMBASSADOR JOKER OF THE NATION OF IRAN*

Mexican Superman!

Also there was no ending, the Joker gets away, and the last words on the last page were literally "Unresolved"

They would have had to have made an entirely new story which defeats the purpose of an adaptation


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## Taleran (Jul 29, 2010)

Yeah Death in the Family may have been an odd one to pick. You know with DC moving towards adaptations more with their animated works, there are 2 Batman stories I am surprised that haven't been made yet.





Although I can understand DKR because they probably want to keep the outlook on Superman positive.


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## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

They didn't seek to make a Jason Todd movie.  Timm basically said "hey we're open to pitches", and Winnick gave his proposal, which Timm LOVED so much that they pushed it to the top of their list.

Also I'd imagine DC wants to keep any interaction with Alan Moore to a minimum.  I know DC owns the story but most of the comics press would have started up again from where Watchmen left off (you KNOW Rich Johnston would make the biggest stink and provoke Alan Moore into raging)


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## Taleran (Jul 29, 2010)

Well there is also Serious House but I doubt that ever happening. The only other major Bat Story I could see working would be Birth of the Demon.


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## Castiel (Jul 29, 2010)

Yeah half of the book's power was McKean's artwork and I bet you morons would have gone "hey why does this cartoon look shitty" at the trailers and it would bomb hard.


In any case I liked UtH a lot and was pleased by the results


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jul 30, 2010)

Serious house would be crazy if the art was correctly adapted. But like you said, it wouldn't. Or if it was, it would bomb.

I hope ASS does a half decent job of bringing Quitely's amazingness to the screen.


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## Narcissus (Aug 11, 2010)

Saw this a few days ago. Really good movie. The guy playing Joker did a great job (though not as good as Hamill). Nice story, entertaining action and all that.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 11, 2010)

Whip Whirlwind said:


> Serious house would be crazy if the art was correctly adapted. But like you said, it wouldn't. Or if it was, it would bomb.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36-G8fFFJJk[/YOUTUBE]

It's so possible.


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## Angelus (Aug 12, 2010)

That trailer is simply AWESOME. They really captured the look and feel of the comic.

Too bad Hollywood will probably never make AA:ASHOSE into a movie...

---

I'm looking forward to Under the Red Hood. The Blu-Ray is released on 27. August in Europe, and I already preorderd my copy.


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## Vanthebaron (Aug 25, 2010)

just watched it last night...Neil Patrick Harris was funny as nightwing





Whip Whirlwind said:


> Dick Grayson NEEDS to say "Suit up!" in this movie. *NEEDS TO*.


someone get on this NOW!!!!

and Jensen Ackleswas dead on as Jason Todd.

and Jason Isaacs was good as Ra's al Ghul (magnificent bastard)


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## Nightblade (Aug 25, 2010)

Jason Todd 


Batman: "we just don't kill these guys.
Jason: "Why?!"
Batman: "because..."
Joker: "hehehe..."
Jason: "..."
Batman:  "I'm Batman."

Jason's right. kill these sick and evil motherfuckers. DC can just make new villains.


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## John Carter of Mars (Aug 28, 2010)

The ending was sad. The whole movie was pretty sad actually... Did some research on the history of Robin - and hopefully if they will ever continue this story Grayson and Jason todd will battle it out for Batman's cowl.


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## Angelus (Aug 28, 2010)

The movie is pretty good. There was a bit too much action, IMO. Additional flashbacks about Batman and Jason in the past would've been more interesting.

The animation and the fight scenes are extremely good, though. Especially the fight of Batman & The Red Hood against those cyborg assassins is pure eye candy.

They also included my favourite BTAS episode "Made Love" on the Blu-Ray disc. Too bad it isn't in high definition...


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## Parallax (Aug 28, 2010)

John Carter of Mars said:


> The ending was sad. The whole movie was pretty sad actually... Did some research on the history of Robin - and hopefully if they will ever continue this story Grayson and Jason todd will battle it out for Batman's cowl.



Battle for the Cowl sucked but it could be an interesting animated adaptation.  They'd have to do Final Crisis first though, but that would be pretty awesome.


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## John Carter of Mars (Aug 30, 2010)

^ Yeah, didn't read the comics- but should to familiarize myself with it. But the plot/synopsis and Jason v.s. Dick fighting it out for Batman's next in line would be cool.  
DC has better substancein their stories though i have to admit.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

It was a good movie. I agree with the sentiment that more flashacks would have been preferable to the action.
Also kinda odd that Nightwing pops in, is a solid co-star, then he gets injured and that is it.

I'm just kinda used to the Robin (or ex-Robin I guess) rivalry. Although I guess Tim doesn't even exist in the movies so whatever. Plus having Dick there would have kinda hampered the emotion of Jason's and Bruce's confrontation.

Very somber  film overall. I actually liked it more than Mask of the Phantasm but I really never really liked that movie anyway. Oh sure, this scene


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 19, 2012)

Only DC animated movie I actually liked. (well this and year one)

maybe I'm bad at choosing the good ones.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 19, 2012)

~Gesy~ said:


> Only DC animated movie I actually liked. (well this and year one)
> 
> maybe I'm bad at choosing the good ones.



New Frontier and Wonder Woman were both pretty good.


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 19, 2012)

~Gesy~ said:


> Only DC animated movie I actually liked. (well this and year one)
> 
> maybe I'm bad at choosing the good ones.



Superman vs the Elite

First Public Enemies .


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 19, 2012)

thanks I've heard good things about public enemies but never got to see it


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## Wuzzman (Jun 19, 2012)

The only recent ones worth praise is Crisis on Two Earths. Wonder Woman was forgettable as hell, New Frontier was ok, Red Hood was Jason Todd wank, Superman vs Elite made me fall asleep. Public Enemies being good? :rofl


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 19, 2012)

Wuzzman said:


> The only recent ones worth praise is Crisis on Two Earths. Wonder Woman was forgettable as hell, New Frontier was ok, Red Hood was Jason Todd wank, Superman vs Elite made me fall asleep. Public Enemies being good? :rofl



Couldnt resist posting your hate could you?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

Jason ended up getting his ass handed to him by Bruce.
I hardly call it "wank."

Especially since he's fucking right. It's about time someone called Bruce out on his bullshit. if you want to save lives, maybe you shouldn't keep saving the life of a guy who kills thousands. 
It's even worse in the comics when Batman has literally resurrected The Joker once or twice. I mean, what the hell.


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## masamune1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> Jason ended up getting his ass handed to him by Bruce.
> I hardly call it "wank."
> 
> Especially since he's fucking right. It's about time someone called Bruce out on his bullshit. if you want to save lives, maybe you shouldn't keep saving the life of a guy who kills thousands.
> It's even worse in the comics when Batman has literally resurrected The Joker once or twice. I mean, what the hell.



Bruce gets far too much heat for not killing the Joker. Arkham should have better security, the law shouldn't keep finding him insane (he's not- he might be mentally ill, but he isn't legally insane), and if everybody in Gotham wants him dead so badly maybe they should act on it. No matter how many times Batman is there to thwart them, if they all want it _that_ badly, nothing could stop them. Though in practice realistically the Joker would have been shot to death by the police years ago- that is, any police force other than the GCPD, apparently.

And no, Jason was wrong- it seems that the Joker is the one perp _he_ isn't willing to kill either, just because he wants to prove a point.

I mean, if anything illustrates this, it was this movie in particular. The Joker was _right there._ He had hijacked _an entire bridge._ He was going to _burn people alive_ (even if they didn't know people were in there, what good in God's name did they think would come from him of all people pouring petrol into a truck and setting it on fire?). Why the hell should Batman be the guy who gets his hands dirty? 

Or maybe they should just lock him up better.


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## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

hey Jason was willing to kill him, He was  proving a point, that batman's way may not necessarily be the right one.

Bruce dosent just refuse to kill to joker, he has gone out of his way to save his life before. 

that. is. Retarded!


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> hey Jason was willing to kill him, He was  proving a point, that batman's way may not necessarily be the right one.
> 
> Bruce dosent just refuse to kill to joker, he has gone out of his way to save his life before.
> 
> that. is. Retarded!



Not really. it's his whole code he adheres to kicking in. if he starts killing or leaves people to die he falls down that slippery slope he's already sliding slowly down

it's not just Bruce at play for why Joker is still alive as Masa said as the police and even Arkham asylum could have offed him if the staff wanted to


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## masamune1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Jason was willing to kill him- but he didn't. Thats kind of worse than what Bruce does. Bruce thinks killing him is crossing a line and may well turn him into a serial killer- Jason thinks killing Joker is not only alright, he practically thinks it is a moral imperative.

But he didn't kill him-he wanted Bruce to do it. And not because it was morally right, but out of vengeance for killing Jason. Wah, wah, wah. Crybaby. His point had nothing to do with him thinking Bruce was wrong about not killing- it was that Bruce was wrong to not kill someone for messing with his kid, because said kid is angry like that.


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## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Not really. it's his whole code he adheres to kicking in. if he starts killing or leaves people to die he falls down that slippery slope he's already sliding slowly down
> 
> it's not just Bruce at play for why Joker is still alive as Masa said as the police and even Arkham asylum could have offed him if the staff wanted to



I hate that line of thinking that killing is like a fucking drug once you take a hit you can't stop.


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 19, 2012)

if you kill the joker wouldn't that just spawn a new monster to take his place?


I think just like they'll always be a batman they will also be a joker somewhere.


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## Wuzzman (Jun 19, 2012)

Its funny how Superman and Batman can beat the crap out of mass murdering villains for the authorities and instead of getting the death penalty or in maximum security they just leave them in regular old prison cells or the insane asylum


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## masamune1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I hate that line of thinking that killing is like a fucking drug once you take a hit you can't stop.



There are plenty of people for whom that is true. And Batman fears that he is one of those people.

Jason said that Bruce didn't have to kill Two-Face, or Scarecrow, or any of the other supervillains- just the Joker. That is wrong- if he kills the Joker, he has no excuse to not kill the lot of them, and all the others that show up, and all the random thugs and hoods and madman that Gotham keeps spitting up. The Joker might have the highest body count, but all of those guys cough up a number of corpses that puts his mountain to shame, and several are almost as bad as he is. Why should Jokers victims be saved / avenged but everyone else left to die?

There would be no excuse- if Batman is willing to kill the Joker, he would be a hypocrite to not kill the rest, and any others that come afterwards. And he knows that, and he knows himself well enough to know that he is the type of man who would become addicted to killing.

True, he has a low opinion of murderers period, but thats only part of the story.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

Wuzzman said:


> Its funny how Superman and Batman can beat the crap out of mass murdering villains for the authorities and instead of getting the death penalty or in maximum security they just leave them in regular old prison cells or the insane asylum



Not always there have been several prisons in the DC universe that were designed to specifically house super human criminals...The Slab comes to mind. 

Just because Arkham has a revolving door policy doesn't mean all the prisons in the DC universe does.

and actually alot of villains do get put in maximum security or need special units built for them.


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## masamune1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Emperor Joker said:


> Not always there have been several prisons in the DC universe that were designed to specifically house super human criminals...The Slab comes to mind.
> 
> Just because Arkham has a revolving door policy doesn't mean all the prisons in the DC universe does.
> 
> and actually alot of villains do get put in maximum security or need special units built for them.



Yet, they always escape.

Thats the gag- even if Batman _does_ kill the Joker, he _will_ come back and doubtless be worse than ever. There will never be an end to it.

And the Joker may or may not know this.


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 19, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> Yet, they always escape.
> 
> Thats the gag- even if Batman _does_ kill the Joker, he _will_ come back and doubtless be worse than ever. There will never be an end to it.
> 
> And the Joker may or may not know this.



Usually do to outside help, but yeah. i'm not saying they're fullproof, but DC does have stuff designed for Metas


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## Wuzzman (Jun 19, 2012)

The point is the line where Batman goes from stopping criminals to simply calling himself judgedred. Judgedred doesn't kill everyone who commits a crime but he kills a far number. Batman and Sups know that they won't start killing people for jaywalking, but there is a grey area where superheroes exist that allows them to put people in the hospital with the support of the local authorities. A line that is broken when superheroes give people the death penalty when its not even legal in some states.

As far as these villains always escaping, it was an accepted status quo until we got all "meta" in the 2000's. Only to repeatedly coming to the conclusion that their better off in jail even if they escape repeatedly. Or to simply say "well these villains are too cool to actually get caught" now


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## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> There are plenty of people for whom that is true. And Batman fears that he is one of those people.


 I don't Belive that, Cops shoot  criminals all the time with out becoming  murder junkies

J





> ason said that Bruce didn't have to kill Two-Face, or Scarecrow, or any of the other supervillains- just the Joker. That is wrlong- if he kills the Joker, he has no excuse to not kill the lot of them, and all the others that show up, and all the random thugs and hoods and madman that Gotham keeps spitting up. The Joker might have the highest body count, but all of those guys cough up a number of corpses that puts his mountain to shame, and several are almost as bad as he is. Why should Jokers victims be saved / avenged but everyone else left to die?
> 
> 
> There would be no excuse- if Batman is willing to kill the Joker, he would be a hypocrite to not kill the rest, and any others that come afterwards. And he knows that, and he knows himself well enough to know that he is the type of man who would become addicted to killing.


 The Joker IS worse then them, They usually have Rhyme or reason to their mayhem, The joker dose it all just for laughs, and to piss off batman. the sure amount of needless pain and destruction the joker leaves in his wake makes him different then the average super villain.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

it's nice to see the Bruce Wayne Apologists turned out. Trying to shift the blame to others really shows that you have no leg to stand on.

The police? The guards at Arkham? They have a job. Their job does not entail killing The Joker. They abide by the law and the rules. 

Batman has no obligations. He does whatever he pleases. He has a_choice_ in the matter and he _chooses_ not to kill The Joker.  As such, everyone The Joker kills is his fault.

And really, this slippery slope crap is laughable. Joker says Bruce put him in a full body cast for six months correct? So the rage, the ability to do immense harm, it's all still there anyway. If anything, that is worse than killing The Joker. There would be immeasurably less suffering involved if he just poisoned him. 

For instance, I read The Lost World: Jurassic Park recently:


> Eddie Carr: I loaded the enhanced venom of Conus purpurascens, the South Sea cone shell. Most powerful neurotoxin in the world. Acts within a two-thousandth of a second. Faster than the nerve-conduction velocity. The animal's down before it feels the prick of the dart.
> Ian Malcolm: Is there an antidote?
> Eddie Carr: Like if you shot yourself in the foot? Don't do that. You'd be dead before you realized you'd had an accident.



So there you have it. What's worse and more inhumane, torture or ending someone's life so fast they didn't even feel pain?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

Sometimes you just wish Michael Keaton would show up and burn everyone alive with the Batmobile.


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## masamune1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> I don't Belive that, Cops shoot  criminals all the time with out becoming  murder junkies



Batman is not a cop- he is a violent vigilante. Cops have to have undergo psychiatrice evaluation everytime they so much as _fire_ their weapon, never mind kill someone. And some do have serious problems afterwards. Not to mention they are not allowed to simply kill them on sight.

Batman breaks the law on an almost daily basis. He seeks out and brutally assaults often dozens of people on several occassions. He is an obsessive loner, a consumate liar, can't seem to decide if he is actually Batman or Bruce Wayne, is driven in large part by a personal vendetta, and is exactly the type of person who could become addicted to killing if he started. Even if cops don't, serial killers do. And he runs a pretty serious risk of becoming a serial killer since he spends his nights putting people in comas. 



> The Joker IS worse then them, They usually have Rhyme or reason to their mayhem, The joker dose it all just for laughs, and to piss off batman. the sure amount of needless pain and destruction the joker leaves in his wake makes him different then the average super villain.



I said he was worse than them. I _also_ said that as bad as he is, when you add up the body count of all the others he doesn't even come so much as a blip- he is the worst, but they aren't far behind and if Batman is going to kill the Joker, then he should be willing to kill the others. A lot of them _have_ killed for laughs; a lot of them have killed for _less_ than laughs. Two-Face once killed a guy for _spilling some wine._ 

And thats not getting into the fact that Joker only kills for sadistic kicks in non-canon stories and media adaptations; in the mainstream comics, he is genuinelly mentally ill and can't fully control his homicidal urges, and has some rather more complicated motives than slaughtering people for fun. Its more of a protest against how absurd he thinks the whole situation is, or he is unable to stop himself from doing whatever crazy scheme enters his head, even if he wanted to. 



Zaelapolopollo said:


> Yeah wah wah wah! Poor Jason you only gotyour body destroyed via crowbar. You only got blown up. You only died.
> What a pussy emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) dumb-dumb.
> 
> Goddam people are stupid.



He is a crybaby because he only wanted Bruce to kill the Joker to avenge his death- he flat-out says as much. He cares less about all the people Joker as hurt than what the Joker put him, personally, through, even thoug he was trained for that and knew it was a risk every time he put on the mask. He has empathy and anger problems, and is more than a little self-centred.

He wasn't calling Bruce out on the absurdity of his "no-killing" rule. He was calling him out because he thought Bruce didn't care enough about him to murder somebody, even if that somebody deserved it.



> And it's nice to see the Bruce Wayne Apologists turned out. Trying to shift the blame to others really shows that you have no leg to stand on.
> 
> The police? The guards at Arkham? They have a job. Their job does not entail killing The Joker. They abide by the law and the rules.



No they don't. Vigilantism is illegal. Batman floughts the law on a nightly and daily basis, and he puts the lives of children at risk to boot. He personally goes out and beats people up, breaks into peoples homes and offices, often robs them as well....Doing their job is hunting Batman down.

And its not standing aside and letting him do their job for them every time some lunatic shows up and starts casusing mayhem. Those laws and rules actually do entail them to shoot the perps when that happens- and yes, most of those criminals do basically paint a bullseye on themselves when they go on their crimes sprees, often doing it openly in the middle of the street. But no, the police have to wait for _Batman_ to do something.

And for the record, Commisioner Gordon has said- more than once- that if Batman ever killed the Joker, he- Gordon- would devote the energies of the entire GCPD to bringing Batman down for murder. So yeah, they are making that choice.



> Batman has no obligations. He does whatever he pleases. He has a_choice_ in the matter and he _chooses_ not to kill The Joker.  As such, *everyone The Joker kills is his fault*.



.....

I don't know where to...

Okay, you are wrong. Batman has obligations- doing whatever he pleases does not mean he has not obligations. It means he has obligations and he wilfully ignores them. And he has no more right to do this than either the guards or the cops or anyone else in the city. 

Yes, Batman has a choice- but so do the people of Gotham. And they make that same choice too. If they collectively wanted the Joker dead that bad, then the Joker would die. Simple as that. But they don't even try to kill him, so they have as much or as little blood on their hands as Batman does. If they think it is all Batman's fault that Joker still breathes, then they are wrong and they are hypocrites. He has no more right to take the Joker's life than any of them do, because frankly he has no right to go around being a costumed vigilante in the first place.

Yes, the police and the guards do have laws and rules to uphold- and none of them allow for the Joker and the rest of them to get away with as much as they have done. There have been several occasions when they could or even should have taken them out without Batman showing up, but they didn't. Might as well blame Renee Montoya for shooting to wound Mr Zsasz (back in _Knightfall_) rather than shoot to kill- which is what she could have done and what the _rules_ say she _should_ have. Batman does not police Gotham all by himself.



> And really, this slippery slope crap is laughable. Joker says Bruce put him in a full body cast for six months correct? So the rage, the ability to do immense harm, it's all still there anyway. If anything, that is worse than killing The Joker. There would be immeasurably less suffering involved if he just poisoned him.
> 
> For instance, I read The Lost World: Jurassic Park recently:
> 
> ...



Whether torture or peaceful murder is more or less humane isn't really the point of the slippery slope thing. Batman believes that if he killed the Joker, no matter how violently or not, he would not stop with him. He would go after every murderous criminal in Gotham, and he would become a serial killer. 

It doesn't particularly matter how he kills them- its the fact that he's crossed the line from self-appointed costumed vigilante to self-appointed judge-jury and executioner, and will inevitably start killing people who are probably guilty as hell but have not yet stood trial, or would beat the system if they did. And in the unlikely event that he could sleep easy with that on his conscience, he has made mistakes before and it is only a matter of time before he kills an innocent person. And there would be plenty of people in the city none too happy about him  taking that chance, or killing in the first place.


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## Wuzzman (Jun 19, 2012)

Lolz narutoforums. We live in a society where the death penalty isn't even guaranteed for child murderers and serial rapist and killers, but a guy in a mask can run around and kill people because "that's his choice" and every thing will be K?


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

Of course DC Earth is not Real Earth so it's not a straight comparison. The presence of superhumans really muddles the issue of taking the law into your own hands and the death penalty. 

Bruce might be a guy in a mask but he's also superhuman. He has abilities that clearly define him as better than the rest of us.

I always took Spiderman's origin as a good example that it is the supers' obligation to use their powers to help us inferior people.  That help includes taking down villains who could easily slaughter Red Shirt cops. The Joker is such a villain with a level of skill and intellect that quite clearly sets him above the ability of any mere human to defeat so we need Batman to do it. Well, him or Nightwing.


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## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

The Joker should not be allowed to Exist, pure and simple.


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 19, 2012)

People seem not to understand Batman. He is not a hero first and foremost , but rather he is a symbol which he wants to hold meaning, this is why Joker does not outright kill Batman but rather try to break him as a man and a symbol. Joker would dies laughing if Batman ever kills him because his whole purpose would be accomplish because he broke Batman. Batman and Supes are not so different from each other , they both want to establish a better Justice system while Batman may not be so naive about it as Supes.


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## Zen-aku (Jun 19, 2012)

heres the thing though, Not killing the joker just keeps the game going, so he still wins, any Moral victory batman gets from not killing the joker becomes invalid when you take a look at the body count.

I mean really the only way Batman could truly truly beat the joker. is to kill himself and take away the one thing that gives the jokers life meaning


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 19, 2012)

That is not Batman job , it is the Law and Justice System that is responsible to handle joker. Just like if a terrorist in real life would be captured , he would still get a fair trail and just get a bullet in the head.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 19, 2012)

A superhero's job is whatever they decide. It is no less Batman's job to kill The Joker than it is to defeat him and have him arrested in the first place. Bruce just chooses to do one of these things and not the other. 

The Punisher is more sensible in this regard.


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 19, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> A superhero's job is whatever they decide. It is no less Batman's job to kill The Joker than it is to defeat him and have him arrested in the first place. Bruce just chooses to do one of these things and not the other.
> 
> The Punisher is more sensible in this regard.



The Punisher kills with no regard, it could be a legitimate Bodyguard hired by the mob and  Frank will butcher him. 
And to think he became a soldier  because of and looked up to Captain America as an inspiration is really ironic how he shits on all of Caps ideals. 

Frank has no hope in society Justice System and Law so instead of trying to fix it or set an example so people will inspire to change the system themselves he just do what he got to do.


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## Zen-aku (Jun 20, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> A superhero's job is whatever they decide. It is no less Batman's job to kill The Joker than it is to defeat him and have him arrested in the first place. Bruce just chooses to do one of these things and not the other.
> 
> The Punisher is more sensible in this regard.



Granted, the punisher is a Admitted Extreme.

But their is a middle ground between Batman and the Punisher


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## ~Gesy~ (Jun 20, 2012)

I just think batman should be more creative, you'd think after the 100th time he captured and locked joker up he'd think "hmm, this is working at all!".


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## Emperor Joker (Jun 20, 2012)

Zaelapolopollo said:


> A superhero's job is whatever they decide. It is no less Batman's job to kill The Joker than it is to defeat him and have him arrested in the first place. Bruce just chooses to do one of these things and not the other.
> 
> The Punisher is more sensible in this regard.



The Punisher is a raging psychopath and not a hero. at times he is worse than the people he is killing because it doesn't matter if your just some random thug or even somebody hired legally and don't know what your boss is doing your still going to die either way for working for what the Punisher deems scum.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jun 20, 2012)

Despite Ennis' wish to portray the opposite,  Frank is a pretty nice and reasonable  guy. He has in fact worked with conventional  heroes several times and he has even, on occasion, spared criminals when he deemed it prudent.

Regardless of his mental health, my praise for him is mainly due to the fact he lives in a world with a revolving door prison system and he knows it. He kills because it is really the only way to deal with villains. The justice system just doesn't work.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jun 20, 2012)

I loved this movie for the fact that
-It covers Batman's relationship with one of the Robins, his father figure aspect
-Batman's relation to Joker

The last one is the best. Batman never kills Joker, Joker in turn hurts many. In the Batman animated series this leads to Joker hurting Tim Drake and mentally breaking him yet he still does'nt kill, in Dark knight Baleman can't kill Ledger Joker. This adaptation covers that aspect in more detail.

"If he had done that to you, I'd have hunted him down"
"I thought I was going to be the last person you'd let Joker hurt"

Batman never puts Joker down, Joker hurts millions in horrible ways. Here atleast a reason is given, Batman walks a grey area and he feels that giving in would make him like Joker. On the other hand, that comes at price to him and those others he cares about who Joker hurts. He could have killed Joker many times before and avoided the situation that lead to the death of his partner. The final scene could have been so much better, if Batman actually made a choice instead of finding a way out. Would he kill his former partner to save Joker thus looking stupid for not killing Joker or finally kill Joker?They avoided that. Batman's fear is most likely valid considering the events that led to him becoming Batman plus his fight with Joker is about what they both stand for, Joker may actually want to push Batman into the deep end. Joker should be given the death penalty though. Those people are as much responsible for this as Batman, how many people must die horribly at Joker's hands before they decide to do it?Joker being sick enough probably enjoys how he's treated in Arkham. Like that people are debating this, the movie accomplishes it's job. 

Good voice acting, nice fight scenes and focus on an important Batman character flaw. Liked NPH as Night Wing, he's not stupid but he tries to maintain a positive and fun attitude in a world where everything is dark, his facial expressions show he can be serious. Are there better versions of NightWing?Sure.


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## Whip Whirlwind (Jun 20, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> Granted, the punisher is a Admitted Extreme.
> 
> But their is a middle ground between Batman and the Punisher



When written correctly this is pretty much what Jason is. Of course, he's not really seen that way due to the DCU's more stringent morality.


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## Gabe (Jun 20, 2012)

batman wont kill the joker because the joker will win in the end he would make batman like joker a killer. and batman wont cross the line


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## Angelus (Jun 20, 2012)

^The next 100 victims of the Joker beg to differ: the Joker won't win jackshit if Batman kills him, and don't give me that moral superiority stuff - it's bullshit.

If not killing, he should at least paralyze that bastard, like in Millers TDKR.


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## Huey Freeman (Jun 20, 2012)

The bullshit is why hasnt Gotham killed him to begin with. They keep him locked up.


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## -Dargor- (Jun 20, 2012)

Zen-aku said:


> heres the thing though, Not killing the joker just keeps the game going, so he still wins, any Moral victory batman gets from not killing the joker becomes invalid when you take a look at the body count.
> 
> I mean really the only way Batman could truly truly beat the joker. is to kill himself and take away the one thing that gives the jokers life meaning



Batman could get the Joker to kill himself fairly easilly and retain the "symbol"

Thats the main plot hole imo


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