# Who can beat the Sannin ?



## Veracity (Mar 15, 2014)

I've recently seen posters suggesting people like Ay, Sandaime Raikage, Bee, Kakashi, and Gai could solo the combined forces of the Sannin 

That's pretty ridiculous.... So I want to see everyone's opinions. 

Location: Sannin showdown
Knowledge : Manga
IC
Restrictions: Edo Tensei
Distance: 15m

Scenario 2: Jirayia starts in SM, Edo isn't restricted.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Mar 15, 2014)

Killer Bee can solo IMO.
Might Guy w/ 8 gate should be able to tie(only because he'll die in the end). He's pressuring Madara harder than Hiraishin at this point, which I don't think most the sannin can react to hiraishin.

Skeptical about the rest. Though Kakashi winning is dependent on his willingness to use kamui.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 15, 2014)

Scenario 1:

Definitely Could:
- Madara
- Hashirama
- Obito
- Rikudo
- Kaguya

Debatable:
- BSM-Naruto
- Edo Minato
- Prime-Hanzo
- White-Fang
- Prime-Hiruzen
- 8th-Gate Gai

Scenario 2:

Maybe:
- Rikudo
- Kaguya
- Madara

I mean if you can summon Edo-Minato + Tobirama + Hiruzen + Hashirama (against certain enemies) + Army of Summons + the power of the  3 Sannin, really no one has a good shot to beat you.



> I've recently seen posters suggesting people like Ay, Sandaime Raikage, Bee, Kakashi, and Gai could solo the combined forces of the Sannin


These are mostly a joke. Sannin Modo Jiriaya alone would beat all of them, except perhaps 8th-Gate Gai, but even him I have some doubts, and that would result in a draw.


----------



## Bonly (Mar 15, 2014)

Well haven't you heard? Only Madara and Hashi can beat them 

LOL I legit couldn't even keep a straight face while typing that  .

Anyway as for a list of people who can beat the Sannin imo:


Nagato
Naruto
Sasuke
Madara
Hashi
Obito
Killer B 
Kabuto
Minato

Gai might depending on what he shows in the next chapter. Kakashi could do it if he became spam happy with Kamui and started off with it and aiming for heads and shit although whether he would actually do that or not is a different story.

I can't think of any one else that can beat them in a 1V3 match at the moment beside Shisui but that would depend if he has both Koto eyes ready to go and he has decent stats and other skills, the Sannin are pretty strong.


----------



## Cognitios (Mar 15, 2014)

Kabuto
Hashirama
BM Minato
Naruto
Sasuke
Madara
8th Gate Gai, maybe (gotta see what it does first)
Kakashi - depends on his willingness to spam Kamui
Killer Bee - Maybe in scenario 1
Edo Itachi with Koto
Prime Hiruzen
Edo Tobirama
Edo Mobile Nagato
Rinnengan Obito with Paths
Danzou with Koto - Maybe
Thats about it


----------



## ARGUS (Mar 15, 2014)

Madara - EMS or above 
Hashirama 
Obito 
Naruto 
Nagato 
Minato 
Sasuke 
Kabuto 
Killer bee 
Hanzo 
Third raikage - maybe
Tobirama - maybe


----------



## Veracity (Mar 15, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Killer Bee can solo IMO.
> Might Guy w/ 8 gate should be able to tie(only because he'll die in the end). He's pressuring Madara harder than Hiraishin at this point, which I don't think most the sannin can react to hiraishin.
> 
> Skeptical about the rest. Though Kakashi winning is dependent on his willingness to use kamui.



Bee can only win if he instantly enters BM and fires of rapid TBB's and even that's debatable as the Sannin still have counters. Tsunade herself can casually beat down base bee, and can go toe to toe with V1 bee with Katsuyu. Adding in 2 Sannin members just makes the battle rape , especially considering this is IC.


Might Gai can stalemate via 8 gates, but the Sannin kill him before he decides to do that. It's not even in his Character to use the 8 gates. He JUST now decided to do so against Juubi Madara. 

Even a Kamui happy Kakashi loses against the Sannin. He has to take off his headband, activate MS, then activate Kamui. The Sannin have plenty of time, and the Sannin have PLENTY of ways to block his LoS. After that he pretty much gets beat done via summon rape, elemental Justu, and clones. Kakashi also lacks the hype to do so. 

IMO the only people can beat the Sannin are ;
Madara
Hashirama
Sasuke
Naruto
Kyyubi Minato 
Nagato
Obito 
Kurama 
Juubi
All other legends a distant time ago lol.


----------



## Weapon (Mar 15, 2014)

- Madara
- Hashirama
- Kabuto
- Obito
- Hanzo
- Blood Lust Nagato
- Eight Gates Gai


----------



## Kyu (Mar 15, 2014)

> Location: Sannin showdown
> Knowledge : Manga
> IC
> Restrictions: Edo Tensei
> Distance: 15m



-Hashirama
-Naruto (Full Powered KCM & beyond)
-Edo Minato
-Madara(EMS & above)
-Kurama (At both 50% & 100%)
-Sasuke (Biju-sized Susano'o & above)
-Obito (War Arc & up)
-Nagato 
-Kabuto (If he starts in Sage Mode)




> Scenario 2: Jirayia starts in SM, Edo isn't restricted



-Hashirama
-Naruto (Full Powered KCM & beyond)
-Edo Minato
-Madara(EMS & above)
-Kurama (At both 50% & 100%)
-Sasuke (Biju-sized Susano'o & above)
-Obito (War Arc & up)
-Nagato
-Kabuto (If he starts in Sage Mode)

Only one I'm unsure of is Kabuto & that's because my knowledge is kinda hazy when it comes to his abilities. Everyone else listed murders the trio without question so long as they aren't bullshitting.

EDIT:
I'd add Bee & Kakashi if the mindset was bloodlusted. I thought about Gai for a split second but he dies right after performing Evening Elephant, so that'd be a draw.


----------



## Batman4Life (Mar 15, 2014)

I dont see why yall are saying kabuto would defeat them, Sasuke wouldve solod him if he was trying to kill him in their fight.


----------



## Cognitios (Mar 15, 2014)

> I dont see why yall are saying kabuto would defeat them, Sasuke wouldve solod him if he was trying to kill him in their fight.


Kabuto has a better Sage Mode than J-Man, Medical Ninjutsu on par with Tsunade, and is basically Orochimaru v2.0 
He has all the abilities of the Sannin but better
Not saying it would be easy, but he could give them quite the run for their money, especially with Manda V2.0 to counter their summons.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Kabutos medical Justu is inferior to Tsunades .


----------



## Ersa (Mar 16, 2014)

Any high-top tier should just about manage to beat them. That means the likes of SM Minato, Edo Itachi, SM Kabuto, KCM Naruto and Nagato. Anyone stronger then these guys and it's not a fight but 3 puppies in the way of a train. Kakashi can't do it, B probably can't either.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Scenario 2: (Jiraiya starts in Sage Mode)
> 
> Maybe:
> - Rikudo
> ...





> Maybe:
> - Rikudo





> Maybe:
> - Rikudo





> - Rikudo




WTF

**


----------



## Cognitios (Mar 16, 2014)

> Kabutos medical Justu is inferior to Tsunades .


On par doesn't mean equal, it just means comparable.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 16, 2014)

who can beat all of them together.

1- madara
2- obito
3- Minato
4- Naruto
5- Hashirama
6- MAYBE: Susake

Not counting ET.

S2: 
the only one who can defeat them with the 4 Hokages is pretty much Hagoromo. and MAYBE current madara.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 16, 2014)

Ignoring the obvious, because we all would agree that Edo Madara, even without PS, any other version, etc.

Nagato is the strongest ignoring the obvious that can take them. If he is in prime condition, with all his arsenal in play, he wins with moderate difficulty due Tsunade and Oro's resilency only.

Edo Itachi, depending on how the match goes.
Edo Minato.
Gai, with eight gate hype.
Killer Bee.
Kakashi if he is bloodlusted.

Those are the ones i come up with right now. I do think the Sannins are hard to beat, but not godly level either. Weaker than the Gokage, that are like the benchmark to surpass to be semi-god level.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

*Stomp the Sannin:*

Hagoromo
Rikudou Madara
Juubito
Hashirama
Madara
Edo Minato
Naruto
Sasuke
Obito w/ Jinchuuriki Pain

*Beat the Sannin:*

Edo Nagato
Edo Itachi
Naruto (without Bijuu Mode)
Sasuke (without Perfect Susano'o)

*Beat the Sannin more often than not:*

Pain
Itachi
Minato
Sage Kabuto
3rd Raikage
4th Raikage
Killer B

*Draw with the Sannin:*

Gai (8th Gate, personal speculation)

*Might beat the Sannin sometimes:*

Obito


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> *Stomp the Sannin:*
> 
> Hagoromo
> Rikudou Madara
> ...



Yeah no that's just garbage. Make a thread about Sandaime or ay versus the Sannin and see what people say.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

Make it yourself if you're interested.



Rocky said:


> WTF
> 
> **



I could say the same for anybody on that "maybe" list. 

And the fact that Hashirama isn't even on it...


----------



## The Undying (Mar 16, 2014)

Weapon said:


> - Madara
> - Hashirama
> - Kabuto
> - Obito
> ...




I'm assuming this is Kabuto with Edo Tensei, right?

If so, I'm seconding your post. It's always nice to see a list that doesn't seem totally biased.


----------



## FlamingRain (Mar 16, 2014)

The only people I would say could defeat the Sannin collectively are:

Madara, Obito (with the Rinnegan, Tailed Beasts, and all that jazz or after), Hashirama, Naruto (Tailed Beast Mode or beyond), Sasuke (actually exploiting the EMS), and Nagato.


----------



## Garcher (Mar 16, 2014)

Itachi surely can solo this


----------



## animeboy1 (Mar 16, 2014)

Madara
Hashirama
Naruto
Sasuke
Nagato
Obito
Kabuto and Killer B have their chances

Basically, anyone above Kakashi's level can pose a threat, and A defeating the Sannin is absurd. Orochimaru alone would have his chances against him


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 16, 2014)

- Madara
- Hashirama
- Obito (MS and above)
- Naruto (KCM and above)
- Edo Minato
- Sasuke (pre-PS EMS and above)
- Nagato
- Edo Itachi
- Edo Tobirama
- SM Kabuto
- Pain
- Bijuu form Bee
- 8th Gated Gai (draw)

Not seeing the issue, I mean ppl should really feel bad when claiming only Jubito or Hashi can defeat Sannin, or SM Jiraiya can now solo pre-PS EMS Sasuke, Pain or SM Kabuto, or how Jiraiya and Tsunade poses threat to BSM Naruto now.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> *Stomp the Sannin:*
> 
> Hagoromo
> Rikudou Madara
> ...




This is pretty acurate.



Turrin said:


> Scenario 1:
> 
> Definitely Could:
> - Madara
> ...





Jesus.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Itachi isn't taking the Sannin together unless Tsunade is still haemophobic, Jiraiya can't use proper jutsu and if Orochimaru can't use his arms and has his body rejecting him.

Guys like Obito, Nagato, Madara, Hashirama and those like Minato could obviously do it.

A gated Gai might be able to pull it off?


----------



## Magicbullet (Mar 16, 2014)

Whoever one might consider could beat them together is going to have to contend with a small team of immortal kage zombies (perhaps even with Hashi himself included if you believe Orochimaru can control him eventually since he didn't try) besides what the Sannin themselves can dish out. 

It seems imperative not to let the Sannin release their full arsenals during the fight, they'd likely overwhelm anyone.

shait- depending on who their opponent is and the situation, Orochimaru might not need to coerce the summons to fight for him at all, they'll do their best of their own volition.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

I haven't been paying enough attention to the scaling and all of the different power ups but I just want to respond to some names I have seen on these lists.

*Hanzo* - This dude in Edo form was soloed by 1 samurai. I think people are thinking back to him beating the Sannin but forget that he beat them before they were the legendary Sannin. He gave them the title, meaning all of their hype (and likely power ups and such) didn't come until after he defeated them. Based off of the Hanzo we have seen he wouldn't beat current Jiraiya or Oro alone, let alone both together with Tsunade.

*Sasuke* - Again, on his own he would need to work just to beat either Oro or Jiraiya at their best. Not sure how that translates into him being able to beat all 3. He hasn't shown anything that would lead me to believe he can even come close. 

There are more names that are equally as shocking to me but I simply don't care enough to get into it. 


So basically the only people who can beat them are the ones who keep combining and gaining powers such as current Madara and Obito at his max. If we are talking Madara and Hashirama of the past they probably wouldn't beat the combined forces of the Sannin either. Certain edos also stand a chance but I don't consider them "real" characters so to speak. This is all especially true for the 2nd scenario where Jiraiya is in SM and Oro has access to Edo. I don't think people quite understand the power at their disposal. 

On top of all that people forget just why the Sannin were considered legends. While they were all individually strong/very strong they had a huge increase when fighting as a team. So you have Oro and Jiraiya who are on their own in some of the highest tiers of strength and when combined they get an increase even beyond that.

So yeah, very few people are going to be able to beat them.


----------



## Mercurial (Mar 16, 2014)

- Current Juubidara
- Alive Rinnegan + SM Madara
- Edo Madara
- EMS Madara
- Hashirama
- BSM Naruto
- BM Naruto
- KCM Naruto
- EMS Sasuke
- Tobirama
- Minato
- KCM/BM Minato
- Current MS Kakashi
- Current Gated Gai
- MS Obito
- MS + Rinnegan Obito
- Juubito
- Itachi
- DSM Kabuto
- Nagato
- Six Paths of Pain

The manga evolved. Don't rest locked in the past. All these people stomp the Sannin or defeat them more times than not.

Also I'd say that Bee, Mu and the 3rd Raikage have some chances.


----------



## Weapon (Mar 16, 2014)

The Undying said:


> I'm assuming this is Kabuto with Edo Tensei, right?
> 
> If so, I'm seconding your post. It's always nice to see a list that doesn't seem totally biased.




Kabuto could win w/o Edo Tensei.

Manda II Summon + Perfect SM is enough to take them on. 



			
				 Cyphon said:
			
		

> Hanzo - This dude in Edo form was soloed by 1 samurai. I think people are thinking back to him beating the Sannin but forget that he beat them before they were the legendary Sannin. He gave them the title, meaning all of their hype (and likely power ups and such) didn't come until after he defeated them. Based off of the Hanzo we have seen he wouldn't beat current Jiraiya or Oro alone, let alone both together with Tsunade.



Good points you have there, but I think he could High Difficulty. Reason being especially against the most current Sannin is he already knows how they work, and their team-work wouldn't be near as good as it was back then. They would have bad chemistry, I think Prime Hanzo still takes this since he's done it before.

I don't think he could in ET, ET has restrictions and if you don't know how to adjust and use your new vessel then you're not going to be anywhere near as good as you once were. 

Also, we didn't get much panel time on his Ibuse-Summon. I think even the three Sannin's summons struggled to contest it considering Hanzo fought Mifune CQC as compared to long range (Which is what the flashbacks sort of leaned more towards in terms of the battle stipulation.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Don't rest locked in the past.



It isn't really the past. Oro is still around and will likely get new feats, Tsunade fought Madara fairly recently and we continue learning about SM and how it one of the best tools in the manga and one of the only things effective against current Madara.

The only thing from their past is their teamwork and that shouldn't really just disappear given how we see the Kage adapt to each other so quickly the Sannin should have no problem getting back up to their level of teamwork. 



> All these people stomp the Sannin or defeat them more times than not.



Maybe 1 or 2 people on your list could actually stomp them and some on your list are laughable that they could even come close to beating the Sannin.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Itachi is around Jiraiya's level... I doubt he can take all three together. Unless they have the handicaps they did in part 1.

Sasuke you can make a case for given some of his war arc feats.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

Weapon said:


> Reason being especially against the most current Sannin is he already knows how they work, and their team-work wouldn't be near as good as it was back then.



He likely wouldn't know how they work since they have improved and developed new techniques since that time. It is unlikely he ever saw SM or ET from Oro. I also disagree with them being rusty. As I said to the other poster we have watched the Kage quickly adapt to each other with no previous teamwork. The Sannin have previous teamwork and lots of it. There is no reason they couldn't quickly work very well together again. 

Honestly I think Oro or Jiraiya could solo what we saw of Hanzo and Tsunade could give him a good fight if not beat him.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> *Hanzo* - This dude in Edo form was soloed by 1 samurai. I think people are thinking back to him beating the Sannin but forget that he beat them before they were the legendary Sannin. He gave them the title, meaning all of their hype (and likely power ups and such) didn't come until after he defeated them. Based off of the Hanzo we have seen he wouldn't beat current Jiraiya or Oro alone, let alone both together with Tsunade.
> .


Allow me to defend Hanzo a bit. First off Edo-Hanzo was indicated to have declined significantly from his prime. On-top of that Edo Hanzo went up against the one enemy immune to his poisons and could fully exploit him becoming rusty through stopping his ability to use any Jutsu. Finally Mifune didn't even defeat Edo-Hanzo, Edo-Hanzo off himself. 

I also think it's hard to evaluate Hanzo's performance against Mifune, because of the fact that we don't have a clear indicator of how strong Mifune is. For all we know Kishimoto could view Mifune as Kage-level and his IAI speed could be considered up there with top-speedsters in the manga. 

Beyond that I think Kishimoto has made it very clear that he considers Prime-Hanzo immensely strong. Jiraiya's statement about how he thought no one could defeat Prime-Hanzo, and Nagato even suggesting that Hanzo only lost to him because Hanzo had become Rusty over the years and lost his WOF. 

With that aside, when it comes to Hanzo vs the Sannin. I'm sure the Sannin were weaker back when Hanzo defeated them, but I don't think they were as weak as some people claim. The title Sannin Hanzo bestowed on them was almost certainly inspired by the Sannin's Boss-Summons, so at the very least we know they had that type of power at their disposal, and probably had mastery of most of their Jutsu at that time, except for a few of the newer ones like; Edo-Tensei, Fuushi-Tensei, Rasengan, Gensis of Rebirth, etc...Does that take a-lot of their power, sure it does, but they still would still be quite a powerful team, especially when on considers the x3 increase they are all suppose to get when fighting in Tandem. Yet Hanzo defeated them seemingly easily, so it's not like he couldn't handle more. Whether he could handle the full might of the current Sannin will always be debatable, but while it seems unlikely it's certainly not outside the realm of possible, given the praise Kishi gave Hanzo.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like we'll ever see Prime-Hanzo and can only hope that some flashback clears this up or DBIV.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Allow me to defend Hanzo a bit. First off Edo-Hanzo was indicated to have declined significantly from his prime. On-top of that Edo Hanzo went up against the one enemy immune to his poisons and could fully exploit him becoming rusty through stopping his ability to use any Jutsu. Finally Mifune didn't even defeat Edo-Hanzo, Edo-Hanzo off himself.
> 
> I also think it's hard to evaluate Hanzo's performance against Mifune, because of the fact that we don't have a clear indicator of how strong Mifune is. For all we know Kishimoto could view Mifune as Kage-level and his IAI speed could be considered up there with top-speedsters in the manga.
> 
> ...



Good points actually. Been awhile since I have thought about the manga like this so I am slipping on some things. 

The problem is that we have just never seen much impressive from Hanzo outside of hearing that he soloed the Sannin. None of his moves seem like they would give them any problems. Hell, even in one of his flashbacks we saw the dude use hand seals just to Shunshin. I am never one to deny hype and canon statements it just seems…..Odd.


----------



## Weapon (Mar 16, 2014)

Another thing about the Mifune fight, not only was he at a complete disadvantage but I honestly don't think he specializes in CQC.

Did you see him post beating the Sannin, the guy didn't have a scratch on him. I think his Ibuse and Poison cemented him as a long distance fighter.

Jiraiya being beyond shock that he was defeated by Pain, also cements how good Hanzo really was.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Mar 16, 2014)

It depends. With the right preparation the Sannin - even with all the War Arc power inflation, are still an absolute fucking bitch to put down.

If Jiraiya starts in Sage Mode and has the Gama trio pre-summoned and by his side, if Orochimaru has the four previous Hokage prepped with Manda and/or other large boss summon snakes out on the field, and if Tsunade has several years worth of chakra stored up and a massive, if not _full_ Katsuyu out on the field, then they are going to be way stronger than usual.

The only people beating _those_ Sannin are the likes of Juubi-Madara, Juubi-Obito and Hagoromo.

Without all the prep, Hashirama, Madara, Naruto, Edo Minato, Sasuke and Obito would take them down. There's a chance that others like Edo Nagato and Sage Kabuto could take them down too.​​


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 16, 2014)

Hashirama, Madara, Naruto, Sasuke, Nagato, Obito and Kabuto.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> Good points actually. Been awhile since I have thought about the manga like this so I am slipping on some things.
> 
> The problem is that we have just never seen much impressive from Hanzo outside of hearing that he soloed the Sannin. None of his moves seem like they would give them any problems. Hell, even in one of his flashbacks we saw the dude use hand seals just to Shunshin. I am never one to deny hype and canon statements it just seems…..Odd.


Here I must disagree again:

Ibusei's Poison-Gas is extremely OP as it covers the entire battlefield and the enemy is really given no indication that cloud is poisonous. This is how Hanzo managed to easily solo the entire ambush-squad. Plus Hanzo breath being poisonous, is also insanely difficult to avoid as no indication is given that anything is suspect about Hanzo's breath. Both of these techniques can easily KO-anyone, if Hanzo's enemies don't have prior knowledge going into the match [or immunity as Mifune had], as air-born weapons are one of the most difficult things to block in the entire-verse.

Moving on from that Hanzo, clashed evenly with Mifune in CQC, until Mifune busted out his best IAI Tech and cut through Hanzo's scythe, which he only achieved success with, because of Hanzo's scythe becoming literally rusty & Hanzo becoming figuratively rusty as an individual/Shinobi. Anyway most people think that was a short scuffle, but actually since it takes Ibusei 5min to recharge his Gas -- which he discharged right before the start of the battle between Hanzo/Mifune and than was able to discharge it again later in the battle -- the battle was over 5min long. Again this feat is a hard one to quantify because we haven't seen Mifune really fight anyone else extensively, but given the context of what Kishi is giving us -- Mifune being the grand-master of the Samurai, who focus on CQC rather than anything else -- It actually speaks volumes towards Hanzo's CQC abilities that he kept up w/ Mifune for so long, and implied he would have bested him, if not for becoming rusty. So basically imo, we have Kishi implying that Prime-Hanzo is one of the toughest CQC fighters in the entire manga, this combined with the fact that his weapon is coated in poison, meaning he only needs a scratch, and the fact that in his prime we see him cutting through Katana's and shit, makes him easily one of the most dangerous people to engage in CQC w/ in the entire manga, even more so under-water according to the DB. Plus if you cut down the dude, your probably going to end up eating poison exploding in your face, from his sack being ruptured 

We never got to see much of his Jutsu, so I can't speak much about that, but he seemed fairly confident that he could end Mifune's life w/ a single Jutsu during their battle; so that's saying something right there. He also managed to spring a trap on Nagato of all people. And let's also consider that trap for a second one of it's main features was the fact that all of exploding tags had some kind of Ninjutsu activated on them that camouflaged them with the ground. If one of Hanzo's Ninjtusu allows him to camouflage anything he wishes, including himself -- which would fit with his salamander theme -- that grants Hanzo yet another ridiculously OP ability, especially when stacked with his poison capabilities. And just the fact that the author felt the need to deny him his ability to use any Jutsu, makes me believe he is packing some OP-shit.

As for the hand-seal to use Shunshi, I always took that as him using the Hand-seal so he could create a smoke-screen when he fled.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Here I must disagree again:
> 
> Ibusei's Poison-Gas is extremely OP as it covers the entire battlefield and the enemy is really given no indication that cloud is poisonous. This is how Hanzo managed to easily solo the entire ambush-squad. Plus Hanzo breath being poisonous, is also insanely difficult to avoid as no indication is given that anything is suspect about Hanzo's breath. Both of these techniques can easily KO-anyone, if Hanzo's enemies don't have prior knowledge going into the match [or immunity as Mifune had], as air-born weapons are one of the most difficult things to block in the entire-verse.



I am pretty sure Oro is immune to poison and Tsunade can probably nullify it with healing. Jiraiya would be the only one is would be an issue for. So I still don't see it being a major issue in this context. Especially given the Futon capabilities of Oro and the frogs.


----------



## Dominus (Mar 16, 2014)

With Edo Tensei restricted:


Madara
Obito
Hashirama
Naruto
Edo Minato
Sasuke
Nagato


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> I am pretty sure Oro is immune to poison and Tsunade can probably nullify it with healing. Jiraiya would be the only one is would be an issue for. So I still don't see it being a major issue in this context. Especially given the Futon capabilities of Oro and the frogs.


Orochimaru isn't immune to poison, he has created antibodies to certain poisons and added them to his system; the same way he did with Sasuke. However considering that Hanzo uses extremely rare salamander vemon, the chances that Orochimaru has those specific antibodies are quite slim; unless he specifically acquired a samples of Ibusei & Black Salamander Venom after facing Hanzo and developed antibodies after that or Hanzo like in the case of Mifune specifically gave the Sannin antidotes to his poison after the match. If the latter scenarios are true, that simply makes Orochimaru &/or the Sannin very poor match-ups for Hanzo. However I would venture to guess that these latter scenarios are not true or even w/o the poison Hanzo is still OP as hell, as otherwise Jiraiya would not have thought it was impossible for anyone to defeat Hanzo, as he would know that Orochimaru who worked w/ Akatsuki could build antibodies to Hanzo's poison.

As for Tsunade she needs prep to gather the right herbs and shit to brew antidotes, she couldn't do that on the fly. She could maybe combat some of the effects of the poison with her medical ninjutsu, which is perhaps why the Sannin were still able to stand against Hanzo, in the flashback, but she can't combat the whole thing on the fly.

Fuutons nice, but we have to remember how quickly Ibusei's gas spread, unless Sannin have knowledge they probably aren't going to realize the need to use Fuuton until it's too late. Additionally Fuuton won't really help w/ Hanzo's breath unless they are constantly blasting him, non-stop.


----------



## Rain (Mar 16, 2014)

White Fang, Hanzo, Shisui, Itachi, Minato, Sasuke, Naruto, Nagato, Kabuto, Tobirama, Hashirama. 

That's all really.


----------



## Senjuclan (Mar 16, 2014)

Rain said:


> White Fang, Hanzo, Shisui, Itachi, Minato, Sasuke, Naruto, Nagato, Kabuto, Tobirama, Hashirama.
> 
> That's all really.



Shisui? white Fang? 

What do you know about those guys again?


----------



## Rain (Mar 16, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> Shisui? white Fang?
> 
> What do you know about those guys again?



White Fang's fame was said to put that of the Sannin to shame.

Shisui... Kotoamatsuki? Yeah, that will do.


----------



## Senjuclan (Mar 16, 2014)

Rain said:


> White Fang's fame was said to put that of the Sannin to shame.
> 
> Shisui... Kotoamatsuki? Yeah, that will do.



Yeah? So what? That was the Sannin before Minato died. Before they developed Some of their signature jutsus. Furthermore, just because one's fame surpasses the sannin does not mean one can beat them either. Kakuzu's fame puts Ino-Shika-Cho to shame and yet they defeated him.

Kotoamatsukami will do what? How come he could not even defeat Ao with it?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> Kakuzu's fame puts Ino-Shika-Cho to shame?



How does losing to Hashirama _hard_ put Ino-Shika-Cho's fame to shame?


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> *Sasuke* - Again, on his own he would need to work just to beat either Oro or Jiraiya at their best. Not sure how that translates into him being able to beat all 3. He hasn't shown anything that would lead me to believe he can even come close.



...Perfect Susano'o?

Lol.


----------



## Mercurial (Mar 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> ...Perfect Susano'o?
> 
> Lol.



He doesn't even need it. Susanoo arrows in vital points can oneshot Tsunade and Jiraiya, they are too slow to do anything. In the scenario where Jiraiya is in SM, yeah PS comes in the game... and it's a fucking GG. EMS Sasuke steamrolls them.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> I Sasuke - Again, on his own he would need to work just to beat either Oro or Jiraiya at their best. Not sure how that translates into him being able to beat all 3. He hasn't shown anything that would lead me to believe he can even come close.



Itachi without Susanoo could give them a decent fight, individually. Canonically Sasuke far surpasses that Itachi, so based on this alongside the nature of Sasuke's arsenal Sasuke should be able to give them more than a decent fight.

We know Itachi level MS skills would also be able to pressure the Sannin to some extent. Therefore if you go beyond that to Sasuke level MS skill (like MS Sasuke) then Sasuke obviously will be able to pressure them even more, and possibly win. More so when you consider how he uses Kagutsuchi and bring in his EMS benefits. 

Speaking of EMS benefits there is Perfect Susanoo. The Gokage couldn't harm it too much (a rejuvenated Oonoki has a chance, imo) so how likely is it that the Sannin will? More so when Sasuke can combine its use with Kagutsuchi and even Chidori?

Let us not forget Sasuke use of summons alongside all the aforementioned.


----------



## RedChidori (Mar 16, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Well haven't you heard? Only Madara and Hashi can beat them
> 
> LOL I legit couldn't even keep a straight face while typing that  .
> 
> ...



I agree with Bonly . I'm also declaring that Itachi could defeat the Sannin as well.


----------



## Senjuclan (Mar 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> How does losing to Hashirama _hard_ put Ino-Shika-Cho's fame to shame?



I think you meant to say how does being selected to kill Hashirama show that one's strength is famous?


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Itachi without Susanoo could give them a decent fight, individually. Canonically Sasuke far surpasses that Itachi, so based on this alongside the nature of Sasuke's arsenal Sasuke should be able to give them more than a decent fight.
> 
> We know Itachi level MS skills would also be able to pressure the Sannin to some extent. Therefore if you go beyond that to Sasuke level MS skill (like MS Sasuke) then Sasuke obviously will be able to pressure them even more, and possibly win. More so when you consider how he uses Kagutsuchi and bring in his EMS benefits.
> 
> ...


Sasuke can't win against the Sannin until he shows a counter for Sound-Based Techniques. Senpo-Frog Call would paralyze him & lower his defenses, than he'd be finished off by a succcessive attack, just like he was about to be defeated Senpo Haguki + successive attack. Like-wise Frog-Song would also finish him off in the same way that Tayuya's Genjutsu did. And the Sannin have a myriad of ways to stall out for Sannin Modo and Frog-Song.

Sannin Modo Jiraiya can beat Sasuke on his own, the only reason EMS-Sasuke is better than Jiriaya is because Jiraiya would struggle to obtain Sannin Modo against EMS-Sasuke 1v1, unless conditions are vastly swayed in his favor; having two Sannin supporting him, more than fills that void. Or to put it another way:

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> I think you meant to say how does being selected to kill Hashirama show that one's strength is famous?



You're thinking of being sent to jail because he lost hard to Hashirama.

Kakuzu never had a reputation which puts the Ino-Shika-Cho's to shame. Ino-Shika-Cho most probably were known by all the great countries. No-one who wasn't from Kakuzu's generation even remembered him.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> He doesn't even need it. Susanoo arrows in vital points can oneshot Tsunade and Jiraiya, they are too slow to do anything. In the scenario where Jiraiya is in SM, yeah PS comes in the game... and it's a fucking GG. EMS Sasuke steamrolls them.



Normal Susano'o arrows would probably be useless against the Sannin since they kind of really suck (Obito blocked them by shooting chakra rods out of his shoulder).

Enton Magatama, on the other hand...would kill the Sannin without much of a fight, if thrown in the same quantity that Sasuke used to wipe out the Zetsu squad.

Enton sword would clean up the Sannin, too.

Sasuke doesn't need PS; I was just bringing it up because Cyphon said Sasuke hadn't shown anything that could beat the Sannin, which sorta begged that response.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Sasuke can't win against the Sannin until he shows a counter for Sound-Based Techniques. Senpo-Frog Call would paralyze him & lower his defenses, than he'd be finished off by a succcessive attack, just like he was about to be defeated Senpo Haguki + successive attack. Like-wise Frog-Song would also finish him off in the same way that Tayuya's Genjutsu did. And the Sannin have a myriad of ways to stall out for Sannin Modo and Frog-Song.
> 
> Sannin Modo Jiraiya can beat Sasuke on his own, the only reason EMS-Sasuke is better than Jiriaya is because Jiraiya would struggle to obtain Sannin Modo against EMS-Sasuke 1v1, unless conditions are vastly swayed in his favor; having two Sannin supporting him, more than fills that void. Or to put it another way:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __




That's like me saying the Sannin can't beat Sasuke unless they find a way to counter his insanely fast arrows. To add perspective a Kamui user, Perfect Sage and a Rikudou were the only ones able to avoid it. 

I don't think Senpo: Frog Call works like White Rage. The latter's effects were obviously shown to be more devastating. 
For starts Sasuke wouldn't be as crippled or blinded, so he could just generate an Amaterasu shield or use Susanoo. 

SM Jiraiya couldn't beat Sasuke on his own. For starters, he wouldn't have access to the polished, fine tuned SM prowess of Kabuto and Naruto. As such he probably wouldn't be as fast or perceptive as them. Seeing as Kabuto/Naruto's SM far surpasses Jiraiya's. 

Next Sasuke stands a very good chance if he gets a full bodied Susanoo, and manages to use Kagutsuchi and Chidori well with it. Against Jiraiya alone, Sasuke would destroy him, especially when you consider snakes. However it becomes challenging with the other two Sannin. If Sasuke cleverly uses his Kagutsuchi in battle and spreads the flames... at random points he could use Kirin whenever the flames make the conditions right.

I don't think Jiraiya would be survive being hit by lightning, more so when Susanoo can send an arrow flying towards the direction too (it could send two). The Enton arrows would be deadly seeing as Sasuke can always manipulate their shape.



Nikushimi said:


> Normal Susano'o arrows would probably be useless against the Sannin since they kind of really suck (Obito blocked them by shooting chakra rods out of his shoulder).



They don't suck if the Outer Path fodderised it.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> ...Perfect Susano'o?
> 
> Lol.



Well any technique could technically kill someone if it lands or whatever but Perfect Susanoo won't give him the win over the 3 Sannin. Oro and Jiraiya are both capable of attacking from underneath in some form and Oro and Tsunade can survive pretty much any amount of damage. Obviously that isn't limitless but it is pretty high.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> Perfect Susanoo won't give him the win over the 3 Sannin.



'K, I'm fucking done.


----------



## Psp123789 (Mar 16, 2014)

There are quite a few people who can solo them.

SO6P
Kaguya
Juubito
Madara
Sasuke
Naruto
Hashirama
Obito w/paths
Nagato
Edo Minato
Kabuto
Edo Tobirama
Edo itachi
SM Minato
Killer Bee
8th gates gai

Most of these people rape them with hardly any difficulty. Some may be able to defeat them.


----------



## Krippy (Mar 16, 2014)

I think its safe to say turrin has lost all credibility on this topic 

Hashirama
Madara
Naruto
Sasuke
Edo Minato
Kabuto
Nagato
Obito
Kirabi

All rapestomp the sannin.  Anyone who disagrees is a bonafide wanker.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> That's like me saying the Sannin can't beat Sasuke unless they find a way to counter his insanely fast arrows.


But they do have many counters to his arrows. 



> To add perspective a Kamui user, Perfect Sage and a Rikudou were the only ones able to avoid it.


So basically everyone whose gone up against the arrows have dealt with them in some fashion or another 



> I don't think Senpo: Frog Call works like White Rage.


It works exactly like White-Rage, crippling the users through sound-waves. 



> The latter's effects were obviously shown to be more devastating.


Bassed on what? Both stopped their targets dead in their tracks and if anything stopping 2-Boss-Summons is more impressive. Plus Sasuke has zero resistances to any Sound-Based attack, so it doesn't matter if White-Rage is louder or something like that, because it's not like Sasuke's ears have a defense.



> For starts Sasuke wouldn't be as crippled or blinded, so he could just generate an Amaterasu shield or use Susanoo.


Huh!? It was the oscillation of the Sound-waves that crippled Sasuke and prevented him from using techniques:


All Sound-waves oscillate. So the high pitch of Senpo Frog-Call would cause the same crippling effects, just as we saw it stop the two Boss-Summons in their tracks.



> SM Jiraiya couldn't beat Sasuke on his own. For starters, he wouldn't have access to the polished, fine tuned SM prowess of Kabuto and Naruto. As such he probably wouldn't be as fast or perceptive as them. Seeing as Kabuto/Naruto's SM far surpasses Jiraiya's.


This is really based on nothing dude. Kabuto is not a perfect-sage, he retains Animal-features just like Jiraiya does in Sennin Modo. Naruto is a perfect-sage, but Kishi hasn't once bothered to explain what the difference is, other than perhaps a perfect-sage being able to create more Senjutsu-Chakra, due to perfecting the balancing of the three energies. 



> Next Sasuke stands a very good chance if he gets a full bodied Susanoo, and manages to use Kagutsuchi and Chidori well with it.


Senpo: Frog-Call prevents Sasuke from holding Susano'o, so no dice there. 



> gainst Jiraiya alone, Sasuke would destroy him,


Senpo: Frog-Call + Senpo Chou Oddoma Rasengan; GG.



> especially when you consider snakes.


What would Snakes do. Sennin Modo Jiraiya fodderizes summons. Plus Aoda vs Bunta, Hiro, & Ken = Aoda ending up like his poor father:

*Spoiler*: __ 










> owever it becomes challenging with the other two Sannin. If Sasuke cleverly uses his Kagutsuchi in battle and spreads the flames... at random points he could use Kirin whenever the flames make the conditions right.


Sennin Modo Jiraiya senses [or Fukasaku/Shima, or Sasuke monologues about it so no sensing required] Kirin coming, alerts the Sannin. Than Jiriaya uses Senpo-Dust Cloud to escape,. I mean Zetsu was right there in the epicenter of the blast, but because he wasn't directly targeted by Sasuke he was fine, so as long as Jiraiya can avoid Sasuke directly targeting him he's fine.



> I don't think Jiraiya would be survive being hit by lightning, more so when Susanoo can send an arrow flying towards the direction too (it could send two). The Enton arrows would be deadly seeing as Sasuke can always manipulate their shape.


Arrows are evaded/defended w/ Sennin Modo-Sensing or Susano'o is disrupts by Senpo-Frog-Call, if Jiraiya, Fukasaku, and Shima consider it such a threat.



Krippy said:


> I think its safe to say turrin has lost all credibility on this topic
> .


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> But they do have many counters to his arrows.



Hard to say when the only counters came from those who've shown very respectable reflexes.



> So basically everyone whose gone up against the arrows have dealt with them in some fashion or another



Generally characters will be pit against people who can deal with their abilities they can use, in the manga. 

Danzo made it clear that he wouldn't be able to dodge the arrow; he has Hashirama's cells. 
Kakashi made it clear Kamui was essential.

Madara lodged stakes created by the Rinnegan... Kabuto was a perfect Sage. 

The Sannin don't have comparable abilities or resumes.



> It works exactly like White-Rage, crippling the users through sound-waves.



White Rage cripples EVERYONE, even the user*. The Frog Call does not, ergo it is far weaker than White Rage.

*Remember it took the Hoozuki ability and a Sennin body for Kabuto to freely move.

If it was as powerful as White Rage, then the Sannin wouldn't be able to move either. 



> This is really based on nothing dude. Kabuto is not a perfect-sage, he retains Animal-features just like Jiraiya does in Sennin Modo. Naruto is a perfect-sage, but Kishi hasn't once bothered to explain what the difference is, other than perhaps a perfect-sage being able to create more Senjutsu-Chakra, due to perfecting the balancing of the three energies.



Kabuto _is_ a perfect Sage. He said so himself in the manga, even the anime. Even Viz has him saying that.

Minato forced us to believe that Sennin who learn Senjutsu from particular animals will display a different appearances to display perfection. In Myouboku it is pigmentation around the eyes with toad pupils, whereas in Ryuchi it is the scaly look like with the black sclera, pigmentation around the eyes which works its way to the nose and the traps along with snake eyes.
In Hashirama's case (Shikkotsu?) its pigmentation around the eyes which has a pattern on the forehead. 
In the case of Juubi Jinchuriki, the fact they've controlled the Juubi's power is proof enough. Even with Juubi Jinchuriki there is a visual differentiation if the natural energy wasn't tamed.

In short: Kabuto's a Sage. The Way of the Toads' perfection may nor visually look the same as the Way of the Snakes' perfection.



> Senpo: Frog-Call prevents Sasuke from holding Susano'o, so no dice there.
> 
> 
> Senpo: Frog-Call + Senpo Chou Oddoma Rasengan; GG.



Only if you assume Frog Call = White Rage. It is clear it isn't; the latter was portrayed as being more powerful.



> What would Snakes do. Sennin Modo Jiraiya fodderizes summons. Plus Aoda vs Bunta, Hiro, & Ken = Aoda ending up like his poor father:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __



Aoda is still quite fast. Combine that with an EMS user who can just hack and slash his way through whilst Aoda does his business and you can say the toads have no real chance. It wouldn't be the first time ocular powers got the best of SM Jiraiya and the toads. 

Jiraiya would be helpless if snakes were casually wrapping around his toads whilst Sasuke started firing Chidori Senbon/Enton/Susanoo arrows from the sky (while riding a hawk).



> Sennin Modo Jiraiya senses [or Fukasaku/Shima, or Sasuke monologues about it so no sensing required] Kirin coming, alerts the Sannin. Than Jiriaya uses Senpo-Dust Cloud to escape,. I mean Zetsu was right there in the epicenter of the blast, but because he wasn't directly targeted by Sasuke he was fine, so as long as Jiraiya can avoid Sasuke directly targeting him he's fine.



You're telling me Jiraiya will move faster than lightning, against an eye which can predict his movements and see through smoke? 

He Jiraiya had a perfect Sage Mode, I could see your strategy being do-able. Not with his canon level of SM mastery though.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Hard to say when the only counters came from those who've shown very respectable reflexes.Generally characters will be pit against people who can deal with their abilities they can use, in the manga.
> 
> Danzo made it clear that he wouldn't be able to dodge the arrow; he has Hashirama's cells.
> Kakashi made it clear Kamui was essential.
> ...


Jiraiya, Fusaku, Shima have Sennin Modo like Kabuto &  have very respectable reflexes. Orochimaru doesn't even need to evade due to Oral-Rebirth. Tsunade survives w/ Byakugo-regen until Jiriaya seals the flames off of her w/ Fire-Sealing-Scroll. 

Though most likely Orochimaru would just pull out Roshomon in time to defend them all; as it requires no seals and happens at the speed of Space-Time; much like how Danzo managed to pull out his seal-less Mokuton-Technique.



> White Rage cripples EVERYONE, even the user*. The Frog Call does not, ergo it is far weaker than White Rage.
> *Remember it took the Hoozuki ability and a Sennin body for Kabuto to freely move.
> 
> If it was as powerful as White Rage, then the Sannin wouldn't be able to move either.


White-Rage has a weakness; Frog-Call does not share that weakness; White-Rage > Frog-Call 

Come on dude, this is a reason why Frog-Call is better than White-Rage not the other way around.

White-Rage is an explosion, hence it hitting everyone in it's AOE. Senpo: Frog-Call is a focused blast, hence it only hitting the intended target. 



> Kabuto is a perfect Sage. He said so himself in the manga, even the anime. Even Viz has him saying that.


1- Kishimoto has never defined what Kabuto means by a "perfect-sage"; Jiraiya could be one too for all we know, as Kabuto could simply mean someone able to enter Sennin Modo. Alternatively Kabuto could also be referring to the fact that he can move while gathering natural energy due to Juugo's DNA. This should not be confused with the reason Kishimoto said Jiraiya is inferior to Naruto, as a Sage; that Jiraiya still retained animal features, just like Kabuto does.

2- Kabuto is delusional. That was the entire point of his character development from back then to now. He ran around shouting about how he was perfect at everything, when he really was far from it. So I wouldn't take Kabuto's words to mean much, especially since it's very IC for him to have a less than perfect mastery of Senjutsu, but still believe himself to be perfect.



> Minato forced us to believe that Sennin who learn Senjutsu from particular animals will display a different appearances to display perfection. In Myouboku it is pigmentation around the eyes with toad pupils, whereas in Ryuchi it is the scaly look like with the black sclera, pigmentation around the eyes which works its way to the nose and the traps along with snake eyes.
> In Hashirama's case (Shikkotsu?) its pigmentation around the eyes which has a pattern on the forehead.
> In the case of Juubi Jinchuriki, the fact they've controlled the Juubi's power is proof enough. Even with Juubi Jinchuriki there is a visual differentiation if the natural energy wasn't tamed.


No Animal features whatsoever was the reason Fukasaku cited that Naruto was a Sage who might surpass Jiraiya. Kabuto has animal-features, and not just the things you cited, but the horns and seemingly elongated fangs as well. 



> Only if you assume Frog Call = White Rage. It is clear it isn't; the latter was portrayed as being more powerful.


How was it portrayed as being more powerful?



> Aoda is still quite fast. Combine that with an EMS user who can just hack and slash his way through whilst Aoda does his business and you can say the toads have no real chance.


But now your making it Snakes + Sasuke vs Toads w/o Sennin Modo Jiraiya. If put Sennin Modo Jiraiya in there:

Senpo: Yomi Numa stops Aoda's movements, while Senpo: Frog-Call gets rid of Sasuke's Susano'o, and Toads kill Aoda. 



> It wouldn't be the first time ocular powers got the best of SM Jiraiya and the toads.


Nagato > EMS-Sasuke.



> Jiraiya would be helpless if snakes were casually wrapping around his toads whilst Sasuke started firing Chidori Senbon/Enton/Susanoo arrows from the sky (while riding a hawk)


Senpo: Frog-Call paralyzes the Hawk and Sasuke, causing him to free-fall to his death.



> You're telling me Jiraiya will move faster than lightning,


Not at all. I'm telling you there is a large build up to Kirin, which Jiriaya can sense, and than can escape.



> against an eye which can predict his movements and see through smoke?


Sharingan can't see through chakra based-smoke-screen; see Sharingan vs Demonic Mist.



> He Jiraiya had a perfect Sage Mode, I could see your strategy being do-able. Not with his canon level of SM mastery though.


Again, I have to ask what the difference between PSM & IPSM, is, as the author hasn't highlighted any, besides the 3 energies being balanced better.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

I like how everyone is jumping on Turrin for his list but niku has by far the most ridiculous list I have ever seen tbh.

Lol people don't even logically read through his posts before acting like his posts are worth nothing. When he said the Sage maybe had a chance at beating the Sannin, he was talking about the combined forces of the Sannin + 4 Edo Hokage. There is atleast some doubt that even the sage would win considering he's Featless. 

That's ridiculous but saying that Ay and his father can solo the Sannin is not ? Lol the things seen in this forum are beyond belief.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 16, 2014)

^ Not worse than BSM Naruto or Edo Minato maybe had a chance against Sannin w/o Edo. 

Featless?  All you need to know is that he has all powerups from Jubito, Jubidara and Hashirama, that alone tells you how he stomps all shits out of the verse. Sannin won't last longer than 0.1 second.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I like how everyone is jumping on Turrin for his list but niku has by far the most ridiculous list I have ever seen tbh.
> 
> Lol people don't even logically read through his posts before acting like his posts are worth nothing. When he said the Sage maybe had a chance at beating the Sannin, he was talking about the combined forces of the Sannin + 4 Edo Hokage. There is atleast some doubt that even the sage would win considering he's Featless.
> 
> That's ridiculous but saying that Ay and his father can solo the Sannin is not ? Lol the things seen in this forum are beyond belief.


Thanks man. To be perfectly honest, I believe the Rikudo-Sennin and his mother probably would beat the Sannin, despite Edo-Tensei, however considering their lack of feats, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the Sannin could still pull of the win, via Edo-Tensei.

I mean I don't think people realize how OP the Edo-Hokages actually are when combined w/ the Sannin. 

Sennin Modo Hashirama + Kurama-Chakra from Minato + Tsunade Chakra Restoring him, is something that I personally don't even want to imagine.

Tsunade + Hashirama Chakra + Kurama Chakra from Minato = Summoning 100% Katsuya, again something I don't want  to imagine.

Sennin Modo Jiriaya charging Frog-Song, while Minato Teleports them around and protect them w/ BM-Chakra Aura, is again something that I don't wish to think about, because it's so OP.

BM Minato + Hashirama Chakra + Tsunade Chakra Restoring him, while Minato creates army of clones all wielding Reaper Death Seal; heck lets Add Hiruzen w/ his own army of reaper death seal wielding bushin into that mix as well, and again we get something I don't feel like imagining.

BM Minato entering Sennin Modo and than fusing with Fukasaku/Shima making the duration last for the whole fight; BSM. It also something utterly ridiculous. 

Etc.... Sannin + Oro's Tensei are absolutely fucked, and anyone who is even being remotely ration has to consider the possibility that someone even as powerful as Rikudo might have a chance to loose to it, no matter how small that chance may be.

As for everyone else, I really hope they are listing who could beat the Sannin w/ Edo-Tensei restricted being in their minds, because otherwise 90% of these list are laughable. And even if they are, there are still quite a few that are laughable like Nikushimi's; LOL EI beating the Sannin, anyone of the Sannin would beat EI solo.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Legendary Itachi said:


> ^ Not worse than BSM Naruto or Edo Minato maybe had a chance against Sannin w/o Edo.
> .


- Madara
- Hashirama
- Obito (MS and above)
- Naruto (KCM and above)
- Edo Minato
- Sasuke (pre-PS EMS and above)
- Nagato
- *Edo Itachi*
- Edo Tobirama
- SM Kabuto
- Pain
- Bijuu form Bee
- 8th Gated Gai (draw

    

Edit: Wait you didn't even say this was your list for Edo Tensei restricted


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 16, 2014)

If Sannin are capable of defeating BSM Nardo or VoTE Mads, ofc Edo Itachi stands no chance whatsoever. 

But I guess Koto may work on Oro w/Edo and Itachi stomps again.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> White-Rage has a weakness; Frog-Call does not share that weakness; White-Rage > Frog-Call
> 
> Come on dude, this is a reason why Frog-Call is better than White-Rage not the other way around.
> 
> White-Rage is an explosion, hence it hitting everyone in it's AOE. Senpo: Frog-Call is a focused blast, hence it only hitting the intended target.



Sorry for interrupting, but this whole argument is stupid.

Hakugeki and Gamarinshou don't even do the same thing, so it makes no sense to argue over which one works better.



> Senpo: Frog-Call paralyzes the Hawk and Sasuke, causing him to free-fall to his death.



Kawazu Naki doesn't have the kind of range needed to knock Sasuke off his bird at an altitude that would actually kill him.

In addition, if Sasuke has any sort of intel on the Jutsu at all, he can simply stay away from or preempt it as-needed.



> Not at all. I'm telling you there is a large build up to Kirin, which Jiriaya can sense, and than can escape.



Jiraiya isn't a sensor and he wouldn't be able to escape Kirin unless Sasuke wasted it on a clone or something, which Sasuke isn't dumb enough to do.



> Again, I have to ask what the difference between PSM & IPSM, is, as the author hasn't highlighted any, besides the 3 energies being balanced better.



Jiraiya can't sense chakra and he doesn't appear to have Kawazu Kumite.



Turrin said:


> - Madara
> - Hashirama
> - Obito (MS and above)
> - Naruto (KCM and above)
> ...



It doesn't matter if Edo Tensei is restricted or not; those people would all steamroll the Sannin.


----------



## Michael Myers (Mar 16, 2014)

Hanzo could still do it? In his prime. Its speculated he was a beast. Plus he beatthrm before.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Sorry for interrupting, but this whole argument is stupid.
> 
> Hakugeki and Gamarinshou don't even do the same thing, so it makes no sense to argue over which one works better.


Gamarinsho =/= Senpo: Frog Call



> Kawazu Naki doesn't have the kind of range needed to knock Sasuke off his bird at an altitude that would actually kill him.



Yup Sasuke never fights on the Hawk in range of this 



> In addition, if Sasuke has any sort of intel on the Jutsu at all, he can simply stay away from or preempt it as-needed.


Yah Magical Intel, bitches, Sasuke touts wins.



> Jiraiya isn't a sensor and he wouldn't be able to escape






> unless Sasuke wasted it on a clone or something, which Sasuke isn't dumb enough to do.


Yeah Sasuke Touts never wasted anything on a clone before:





> iraiya can't sense chakra and he doesn't appear to have Kawazu Kumite.


Where did Kishimoto say IPSM was incapable of those powers? Where did Kishimoto say Jiriaya can't sense? In-fact him fighting in a smoke-screen perfectly fine leads me to believe otherwise:




> It doesn't matter if Edo Tensei is restricted or not; those people would all steamroll the Sannin.


*It doesn't matter if Edo Tensei is restricted or not*
*It doesn't matter if Edo Tensei is restricted or not*
*It doesn't matter if Edo Tensei is restricted or not;*

Yeah Niku Edo Itachi > Edo Hashirama, Edo Minato, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Tobirama, Orochimaru, Tsunade, and Jiriaya.

Edit: Actually the best one is Edo Tobirama > Himself + 6 Other Top Notch Shinobi. That shit is for real, people, I couldn't make that up.



Legendary Itachi said:


> If Sannin are capable of defeating BSM Nardo or VoTE Mads, ofc Edo Itachi stands no chance whatsoever.
> 
> But I guess Koto may work on Oro w/Edo and Itachi stomps again.


Yeah, but than Jiraiya pulls out Koto and turns Orochimaru back to his side and the Sannin stomp Itachi again.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 16, 2014)

Wait the Sannin and Hokage can defeat Rikudo Sennin? The guy who made a fucking moon on his deathbed and took down Prime Juubi by himself and sealed it? He could literally reiatsu crush the Sannin and snap Hashirama in two. Make a couple of moons to seal them up in.


----------



## Kai (Mar 16, 2014)

The Sannin should receive credibility no higher, let alone on the level of, the Gokage. The legendary Gokage have greater synergy in showings and hype than the three Sannin (one of them being a member of the Gokage). They can be used as a benchmark the Sannin should never exceed. That being said, the ones who defeat them without issue:

Madara
Obito
Hashirama
Naruto
Sasuke
Nagato

If we include ET states, then Minato stomps and Itachi is favored to win, but then Oro should naturally get his ET Hokages to make the case fair, right?


----------



## Jagger (Mar 16, 2014)

For God's sake. Rikkudo Sennin created the moon without the Juubi's chakra.

Have you ever checked the sheer size of such satellite? It dwarfs even the USA and I very much doubt even the size of the largest technique seen so far (obvious, excluding the moon) that is Shinsuusenju can match such large numbers.

Not to mention that was created without the Juubi's chakra. But oh well, must be me and my crazy thoughts...


----------



## Ersa (Mar 16, 2014)

If you actually take some of the statements of the manga into account, it actually suggests the Naruto planet is bigger then ours. So yeah I may be wrong but Senpo Odama Rasengan or Tsunade's kick isn't busting a large moon.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Like what lol? Considering to fit the explosion of the Juubi blast Kishi had to show the planet curving, suggests that the Naruto world is like the size of Asia + Europe. It's not big at all lol.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 16, 2014)

Or it could suggest the Juubi blast was pretty fucking big?

Not that it matters when it comes to RS vs Sannin + Hokages, he could one-shot most of them with basic taijutsu (Juubito style) and maybe make a moon for Hashirama.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

The Juubi's TBB AoE is not the size of a fucking continent. Don't even try to be logical with that lol.

And I never said the sage wouldn't destroy them lol. I said it's more reasonable for for him to lose to the combined forces of Tsunade - SM Jirayia - Oro - SM Hashirama - BSM Minato - Tobirama and Prime Hirzuen then it is for Ay to beat the entire Sannin squad.

And lol ALL we have is hype for the sage basically. Who's to say he literally created the moon? Unless ur gonna actually bring up a solid feat, then I can just say he gets his shit tossed in CQC by Tsunade considering she's "unsurpassable " in taijustu.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 16, 2014)

How the fuck Gedo Mazo goes to the moon if the Sage never creates it?

And the Raikages won't get blitzed by Sannin at start the match, unlike the poor Hokages and Sannin before they can move their hands. The gap between true god level and others is much more absurd than Kage level and Kage level.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 16, 2014)

Why not? Naruto and B's Bijuudama covered several mountain ranges, Kakashi stated the Juubidama was literally on a completely different level and he's seen shit like Super Bijuudama + 5 Bijuudama. I don't really see why the Juubi can't be that strong. I don't know if it's continent level but I'm confident it would wipe small countries off the map.



He stopped a Prime Juubi and made a moon. Those are feats, he's more or less Narutoverse's God. So no your example is terrible.



Yes he literally created the moon. And no Ei stands a much better chance against the Sannin then those people have of defeating RS. Ei could maybe take one down if he's lucky, the Sannin get a moon dropped on them or several Juubidama.


----------



## zenstudio (Mar 16, 2014)

all you need is madara alone


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Legendary Itachi said:


> How the fuck Gedo Mazo goes to the moon if the Sage never creates it?
> 
> And the Raikages won't get blitzed by Sannin at start the match, unlike the poor Hokages and Sannin before they can move their hands. The gap between true god level and others is much more absurd than Kage level and Kage level.



What ? 

And care to list some feats considering you actually decided to approach this conversation as if you wrote the damn manga. I mean you seem to be certain that the Sage can blitz anyone despite actually not having feats for such. Quote on quote feat of creating the moon does not contribute to speed in any manner btw. The sage could have solely had spectacular offensive moves, and durabilty|defense but could have been as
Slow as Bunta. We have no clue. So until the sage has some concrete feats then is advice you don't try to even muster up the effort to debate with me, especially because you have no evidence. It's actually kind of funny that you had the nerve to make the "" face as if my opinion of the sage having a bit of trouble against 7 mid - god tiered Kage , opposed to Ay literally beating 3 mid tier Kage + their boss summoning + Edo Tensei if needed, and literally though that was completely ridiculous ? Lol.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Jagger said:


> For God's sake. Rikkudo Sennin created the moon without the Juubi's chakra.
> 
> Have you ever checked the sheer size of such satellite? It dwarfs even the USA and I very much doubt even the size of the largest technique seen so far (obvious, excluding the moon) that is Shinsuusenju can match such large numbers.
> 
> Not to mention that was created without the Juubi's chakra. But oh well, must be me and my crazy thoughts...


I don't think were suppose to even begin to consider that from a logical standpoint as creating a CT that strong would have destroyed the Naruto world and Naruto world couldn't even exist w/o a Moon. So trying to bring logic into doesn't seem right to me at all. I don't think even Kishi considered how ridiculous that shit is, more like he watched DBZ and was like, they do stuff w/ moon, so I want to do stuff w/ moon hurp da derp. I really doubt if we actually see the Sage fight he'll be using Jutsu on that scale casually, Kishi will give it some ridiculous restriction so he never has to explain it, like it taking 10-days to charge or something that cost Rikudo his life. Or the moon is actually super-small in the Naruto-world. 

Anyway Juubidara should not be far off from what the Sage is capable off, he's only missing 1 half of Kyuubi and 1-Rinnegan. He's more powerful for sure, but I have extreme doubts about Juubidara being able to beat Edo Hashirama, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Minato, Edo Tobirama, Jiriaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru, like-wise I have some doubts the Sage is capable of that, though I wouldn't be surprised ether. Naruto and Sasuke do have to be able to reach that level at some point if not individually, collectively, and the thought of ether one of them defeating that is extremely out-landish at this point, so for them to get power ups to the point where they can stomp all of that, seems completely implausible at this point. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but I do have some reasonable doubt and I think that is completely rational.


----------



## Kid (Mar 16, 2014)

been there, done that


----------



## The Undying (Mar 16, 2014)

Just for the record:

Beyond combining its powers with BM Naruto, Sasuke's PS is totally featless. There's absolutely no reason to bring it up in this discussion.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Why not? Naruto and B's Bijuudama covered several mountain ranges, Kakashi stated the Juubidama was literally on a completely different level and he's seen shit like Super Bijuudama + 5 Bijuudama. I don't really see why the Juubi can't be that strong. I don't know if it's continent level but I'm confident it would wipe small countries off the map.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A mountain range does not equal a continent. I also kinda remember Minato warping a Juubi blast into an ocean , and if the AoE was continent level then it literally still would have killed everyone in the area basically. It's also to not that the AoE of the Juubis blast could show the earth curving lol. It is not even close to continent level of earth. Unless you assume that Minato has a randomly placed FTG seal literally one continent away in the ocean , then the Juubis AoE is not as great as you claim. It can probably wipe Texas off the map, and that's  giving it the huge benefit of the
Doubt.  Cuz I have doubts Minato would tag the water 100's of miles away from the shoreline.

And yet that's all still hype. I'll just wait for some actual feats okay ?


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 16, 2014)

You know this thread lost all credibility when you start to see the Sannins beating Rikudo Sennin, the Juubi Jin.

Kai's response was one of the best. The Sannins are to not be treated higher than the Gokage, and they got their ass beaten by a Madara without PS. We can base their power from that very well.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 16, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> And care to list some feats considering you actually decided to approach this conversation as if you wrote the damn manga. I mean you seem to be certain that the Sage can blitz anyone despite actually not having feats for such. Quote on quote feat of creating the moon does not contribute to speed in any manner btw. The sage could have solely had spectacular offensive moves, and durabilty|defense but could have been as
> Slow as Bunta. We have no clue. So until the sage has some concrete feats then is advice you don't try to even muster up the effort to debate with me, especially because you have no evidence. It's actually kind of funny that you had the nerve to make the "" face as if my opinion of the sage having a bit of trouble against 7 mid - god tiered Kage , opposed to Ay literally beating 3 mid tier Kage + their boss summoning + Edo Tensei if needed, and literally though that was completely ridiculous ? Lol.



Wat. 

Jubito blitzes Tobirama, hits KCM Minato before he can react, almost wiping out everyone with Barrier + 4 TBB. Shinju catches BSM Naruto effortlessly and eats BM Minato's chakra, SM Madara reacts to Hiraishin and tanks Bijuu's assault. Replace Jubito with a perfect Jubi Jin with SM boost and Onmyoton stuff then you know what happens. Not even counting the Rinnegan.

I can't imagine how ppl believes that why the complete Jubi Jin with all powers from Madara and Hashi somehow can't accomplish better feats but may struggle when not even all of them can touch the Onmyoton stuff, or why someone just stands and see what combinations they're planning.On the other hand, what kind of speed feats and jutsu the Sannin have that suggests they can stomp V2 Ay instantly.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 16, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> The Juubi's TBB AoE is not the size of a fucking continent. Don't even try to be logical with that lol.
> 
> And I never said the sage wouldn't destroy them lol. I said it's more reasonable for for him to lose to the combined forces of Tsunade - SM Jirayia - Oro - SM Hashirama - BSM Minato - Tobirama and Prime Hirzuen then it is for Ay to beat the entire Sannin squad.
> 
> And lol ALL we have is hype for the sage basically. Who's to say he literally created the moon? Unless ur gonna actually bring up a solid feat, then I can just say he gets his shit tossed in CQC by Tsunade considering she's "unsurpassable " in taijustu.



Are you trying to that it is reasonable for Hagoromo, the Rikudou Sennin, to lose to the Sannin and Hokage together? 

The guy who created the moon and Bijuu *while he was old and dying*. The guy who has the entire Juubi within him and the Rinnegan's full powers... The guy whose mastery of Yin-Yang is so great that he could create just about anything...

Going by what we've seen from the Rinnegan and the Juubi Jinchuriki... You are actually saying Hagoromo could lose to the Sannin+Hokage?


----------



## Veracity (Mar 16, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Are you trying to that it is reasonable for Hagoromo, the Rikudou Sennin, to lose to the Sannin and Hokage together?
> 
> The guy who created the moon and Bijuu *while he was old and dying*. The guy who has the entire Juubi within him and the Rinnegan's full powers... The guy whose mastery of Yin-Yang is so great that he could create just about anything...
> 
> Going by what we've seen from the Rinnegan and the Juubi Jinchuriki... You are actually saying Hagoromo could lose to the Sannin+Hokage?



I assume you didn't read the previous posts because you are wrong. Never said he would actually lose to them


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 16, 2014)

The Undying said:


> Just for the record:
> 
> Beyond combining its powers with BM Naruto, Sasuke's PS is totally featless. There's absolutely no reason to bring it up in this discussion.



Kind of what I was thinking. I thought his last big fight was vs Kabuto or something though I am admittedly funny on that and nothing he displayed tells me he can beat the Sannin.


----------



## Blu-ray (Mar 16, 2014)

Rikudo
Rinne Obito and above
EMS Madara and above
Naruto
Sasuke
Sandaime Raikage
Killer Bee
Kabuto
Nagato
Hashirama
Edo Itachi
Edo Minato

Those are people are can beat all three sannin on their own almost if not always 10/10 times.

Other people possible could considering they lost to the likes of Hanzo in their prime.

With no Edo Tensei restriction, assuming they get Hiruzen, Minato, and Tobirama:
Juubito
Juubi Madara
Rikudo
Hashirama
Revived Rinnegan Madara

That's about it. Even Naruto at best could only stalemate Minato and he's the strongest outside of the people listed.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 16, 2014)

Turrin said:


> He's more powerful for sure, but I have extreme doubts about Juubidara being able to beat Edo Hashirama, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Minato, Edo Tobirama, Jiriaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru.




Let's look at who Rinnegan Madara has beaten:


Edo Hashirama
Edo Tobirama
Sasuke
Naruto
Bee
Shukaku
Matatabi
Isobu
Goku
Kokuo
Saiken
Chomei

That's twelve things over Kage level, some vastly more powerful than a Kage. The seven Bijuu & Bee would tear apart the Sannin, while Naruto & Sasuke would defeat Edo Minato & Edo Hiruzen. Edo Senju brothers stalemate themselves.

...so Rinnegan Madara beat a team far stronger than the Sannin, and you have doubts that Jubidara could just beat them?


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Let's look at who Rinnegan Madara has beaten:
> 
> 
> Edo Hashirama
> ...



Most of these things were 1v1. 

- He lost to Hashirama, but put the stakes in him before hand, than when brought back simply had to activate them
- He defeated Tobirama 1v1
- He defeated Sasuke mostly 1v1 [Tobirama spit some needles]

The only ones he defeated at the same time were the Bijuu and he indeed seemed to have a natural advantage over them, as he was able to drag them into GM, which he can't do w/ Shinobi, and if he couldn't do it with the Bijuu I have seriously doubts he would have won. Nonetheless: Sannin + Edo Hokages >>> Bijuu + B + BM-Naruto. 

I mean the fact of the matters is we need to look at the team assembled here Sennin Modo Hashirama is the strongest Shinobi bar Juubi-Jins and RT-Madara, he just is. Now apparently Minato can casually transfer Yin-Kyuubi into anyone. So now we have BSM Hashirama, that shit alone would be fucked, but not fuck enough, lets have dem Toads fuse with Hashirama, so BSM lasts the entire match. 

Now let's have him give Kyuubi-Senjutsu chakra to all of his team-members, granting them BSM-Lite, and heck Orochimaru can transfers some Hashi-DNA to every-body, that would be fun. Than lets hook Hashirama and everyone else up w/ a Katsuya so they can blow all of their chakra into single Jutsu and just be regenerated by Tsunade, like in the case of Onoki. 

And let's create armies of Shiki Fuujin wielding Minato's and Hiruzen's. With two FTG users spreading tags everywhere.

Oh and you have to beat all of this before Frog-Song goes off, after what a few seconds of charging. 

Yeah I stand buy my previous stance that, that shit is utterly fucked, and It's very hard for me to imagine even Rikudo-Sannin is as far above that as some would like to believe, and that Naruto (or even Naruto + Sasuke combined) will be able to not just surpass that, but FAR FAR surpass it, if Rikudo really is that much better.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 16, 2014)

None of what's happening in the Manga is "1v1." It's the entire shinobi alliance, Taka, and Orochimaru w/Edo Tensei vs. Madara and Zetsu. What you saw was an "IC" team effort, and it just didn't matter. All of those people, no matter how many hax combinations you could conjure up in your head for them, lost. 

If they take an OOC team approach, like all of the things that post was full of, then Madara could just split them up with clones, like he did the 5 Kage.

And btw, Edo Madara lost to SM Naruto & Hashirama (and he didn't care, as he knew he was getting his power back). Rinngean alive Madara never lost to anyone.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 16, 2014)

Rocky said:


> None of what's happening in the Manga is "1v1." It's the entire shinobi alliance, Taka, and Orochimaru w/Edo Tensei vs. Madara and Zetsu. What you saw was an "IC" team effort, and it just didn't matter. All of those people, no matter how many hax combinations you could conjure up in your head for them, lost.


Dude what your talking about. Hashirama and Madara were indeed dueling 1v1. Tobirama took the initiative of when Madara was distracted with sealing the Tailed-Beast to launch an attack, but he wasn't proactively fighting in a Team with anyone, and when he scuffled with Madara it was just the two of them, at that point. Sasuke did attempt to take Madara on with minimal assistance from Tobirama [he spit some needles, whatever].

These instances are much different than when we see Tobirama, Minato, Naruto, & Sasuke working together as a Team against Juubito for example. Or even when we see Kakashi, & Obito working together against Juubidara. 

And never has Juubidara or Juubito ever come close to fighting a team with the power of Edo-Hokages + Sannin combining their might against them. Not once do they face anything like that. And in-fact the author is willfully preventing that from happening, by constantly sidelining somebody, sometimes inexplicably. Hashirama was not allowed to fight as a team w/ Tobirama, Minato, Naruto, and Sasuke, because he was dealing with Madara. Minato was sidelined by BZ. Currently Hiruzen is  sidelined by Spiral. Kishi keeps having the Edo-Hokages be separated, probably because they would otherwise defeat the villains taking the spot-light away from Sasuke or Naruto, as the Edo-Hokages are just that fucked.



> f they take an OOC team approach, like all of the things that post was full of, then Madara could just split them up with clones, like he did the 5 Kage.
> 
> And btw, Edo Madara lost to SM Naruto & Hashirama (and he didn't care, as he knew he was getting his power back). Rinngean alive Madara never lost to anyone.


None of that shit is OOC if the need arrises, in-fact we've seen all of the stuff suggest done before in this war; except Fukasaku and Shima Fusion. 

And let me ask you this, what do you imagine End-Game Naruto is going to be like? Most people seem to think he'll get both halves of the Kyuubi or some type of Juubi-light, and combined that w/ Senjutsu. Maybe some Uzamaki Powers to top it all off

Base-Hashirama already has Chakra levels equivalent to BM-Naruto. So add in the Yin-Kyuubi, and BM-Hashirama has the same Chakra levels as End-game Naruto would have if he got Full Kurama. Maybe he'd have a bit more than that if he got Juubi-lite, but here Hashiram has Tsunade to restore him every time he runs out of chakra & Edo perks, so that should make up for some of that. Than Hashirama has Sennin Modo, so that equalizes out with Naruto's Sennin Modo, assuming Naruto perfects his to the degree of Hashirama's. As for Uzamaki powers, he'd still have that over Hashirama, but Hashirama would have Mokuton/Senju-DNA over him. And even if Uzamaki powers are better than that, were still talking about minor differences here in strength. So Hashirama alone has the potential to be near End-Game Naruto levels. 

Now most people expect End-Game Naruto to be equivalent to Rikudo, so if that's the case Edo Hashirama alone could reach that level in this scenario. However other people think Sasuke & Naruto together will reach Rikudo's level, so Hashirama makes up for Naruto's portions. Now let's ask ourselves, is Sasuke's contributions really going to be greaters than Edo Tobirama + Edo Minato + Edo Hiruzen + Jiraiya + Orochimaru + Tsunade, it could be, but I can't imagine were talking about a huge gap here, especially if Sasuke is only going to be 50% of Rikudo's power, alongside the other 50% being Naruto.

So again it does not seem possible that Rikudo-Sennin could be Vastly  superior to Edo-Hokages + Sannin, it just doesn't. And I could be wrong, but this is all opinion based at this point anyway.



> And btw, Edo Madara lost to SM Naruto & Hashirama (and he didn't care, as he knew he was getting his power back). Rinngean alive Madara never lost to anyone.


Okay and what's your point.  Edo-Hokages + Sannin >>>>>>>>>> SM Naruto + Hashirama. Edo Hokages + Sannin >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone RT Madara fought.


----------



## StickaStick (Mar 16, 2014)

Sweet Jesus.

RS, Juubimads, and Juubito all stomp the living piss out of the Sannin ET or not.  For that matter, if anyone thinks there's any scenario where Kishi would write the Sannin giving these guys trouble I don't even. RH Mads could pull it off as well. 

With ET restricted: Mads, Hashirama, Obito, Minato, Naruto, Sasuke, Kabuto (starting in SM), Nagato, Gai (8th Gate). Edo Itachi if the everything goes more or less perfect for him.


----------



## trance (Mar 17, 2014)

Madara, Hashirama, BM Naruto, Obito with Paths and BM Minato all crush the Sannin.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

Seeing Gai's name come up too much in this thread as well. We haven't even seen what 8 gates is going to accomplish and 7 gates is no guarantee of beating any of the Sannin alone. I really doubt 8 is going to be so impressive that he can suddenly solo the trio. 

Again, I don't think people are really realizing how hard these 3 are to put down. Not just based on skill but Oro and Tsunade are quite literally almost un-killable at times because of their healing. I all hold off on any final judgment until we actually see this 8 gate attack and how long Gai can maintain but again, I seriously doubt it is going to make that much of a difference.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> A mountain range does not equal a continent. I also kinda remember Minato warping a Juubi blast into an ocean , and if the AoE was continent level then it literally still would have killed everyone in the area basically. It's also to not that the AoE of the Juubis blast could show the earth curving lol. It is not even close to continent level of earth. Unless you assume that Minato has a randomly placed FTG seal literally one continent away in the ocean , then the Juubis AoE is not as great as you claim. It can probably wipe Texas off the map, and that's  giving it the huge benefit of the
> Doubt.  Cuz I have doubts Minato would tag the water 100's of miles away from the shoreline.
> 
> And yet that's all still hype. I'll just wait for some actual feats okay ?


Naruto's Bijuudama dwarf mountain ranges. We're talking about the "proprietor of all things" which Naruto is an ant to. 

We never saw the ocean explosion so really we can't draw anything from there. You're really grasping at straws here. 

Defeating Juubi and creating a moon are not hype, hype is suggesting a character is at a certain level. RS has the feats, why the fuck should the Sannin be anything more to him then fodder? ET Hokages included. Hashirama already admitted Juubito was beyond him, we're talking about someone who is much stronger.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 17, 2014)

The Undying said:


> Just for the record:
> 
> Beyond combining its powers with BM Naruto, Sasuke's PS is totally featless. There's absolutely no reason to bring it up in this discussion.



Implying that his legged Susano'o won't oneshot all 3 of them combined 

Implying that his PS needs any feats for us to make the assumption that he'd oneshot Sannin with it


----------



## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

Sasuke's Bijuu sized V3 saved him from an attack from a god tier. That already shits on anything the Sannin can even output. I mean I know some people think Tsunade can punch a kilometre wide crater but yeah not anyone with a brain. And then he has V4 and Perfect Susanoo. This section really has down the drain, EMS Sasuke shits on the Sannin. As does any top tier.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm sure Yomi Numa or Ma and Pa's frog sound can deal with it just fine. :ignoramus


----------



## Sabco (Mar 17, 2014)

Who can beat him all

1- madra

2- hashirama

3- minato

4- danzo - with kotoamatsukami


----------



## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

Legendary Itachi said:


> I'm sure Yomi Numa or Ma and Pa's frog sound can deal with it just fine. :ignoramus


Is this before or after Sasuke steps on them?

Or showers them with Enton, Kirin and arrows? He could probably jump out of Yomi Numa, look at his jumps vs Juubito. And you can't hear Frog Song if Jiraiya is a kilometre under the ground. :ignoramus


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 17, 2014)

Well well, Dat accurate Frog Call immobilize 2 Big summons and Ma and Pa shooting together on Sauce should be 2x powerful before he can move......

We know a 30% Base Jiraiya can trap a big snake with Yomi Numa, not even Madara PS can get rid of that powerful 100% Senpo swamp......

Not to say SM sensing and super reflexes and Shunshin that exceeds Itachi and Sauce will help dodge all attack......

I mean EMS Sauce has no chance against Sannin w/o Edo if not even this guy ensures a victory in this thread......


Ahahahahahahaha, WTF am I typin.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 17, 2014)

Lel. 

PS stepping into Yomi Numa is the same as us stepping in a puddle of mud.

Coincidentally the Sannin are the ants next to the mud.


----------



## ? (Mar 17, 2014)

Hashirama
Madara
Obito
Naruto
Minato(Edo)
Sasuke
Nagato


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

Again, you guys forget how hard it is to actually kill Oro. The only thing we have seen that can fully take him down is by sealing him. He can puke out a whole new body no matter the damage (at least so we have seen) and can pull himself back together if he is cut in half. Sasuke has shown nothing that can bypass that.

That is the problem he has just taking out 1 of 3. Tsunade also has healing that can let her survive a travel method that supposedly would pull her body apart and a summon that seems able to heal just about anything as well. 

Those 2 fight Sasuke and he spends the majority of his chakra trying to kill them while Jiraiya accesses SM and then he gets stomped. He has no counter to Frog Song.

We haven't even discussed how the Sannin have 3 boss summons they can have out at 1 time that Sasuke would also have to work around.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 17, 2014)

The thing is that he doesn't need to. He just ignites them with Amaterasu, or ignites Jiraiya. Orochimaru or Tsunade cannot stop Sasuke for going to fight Jiraiya, especially if he charges up towards J-man with an Amaterasu blade slaying anybody that stands in his way.

Tsunade can heal all she wants, but she cannot beat Amaterasu, and heavy damage had put her on the floor for enough time to be killed. Orochimaru might do something, but he cannot restrict a Susano'o that can jump pretty high and shoot Enton arrows while moving.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> The thing is that he doesn't need to. He just ignites them with Amaterasu, or ignites Jiraiya.



If he ignites Oro he will just use Rebirth so that isn't much of a problem. I am not sure how well Tsunades healing will work against Amaterasu though. 

And that is assuming it hits. We have seen a lot of people with some sort of counter or answer to the problem. 



> Orochimaru or Tsunade cannot stop Sasuke for going to fight Jiraiya, especially if he charges up towards J-man with an Amaterasu blade slaying anybody that stands in his way.



Again, that is assuming they don't dodge him and aren't sending attacks of his own. It isn't like the Sannin will just stand there and let him continuously attack without responding. That has never happened in a fight. 

And of course this is all assuming he makes the decision to start off by rushing Jiraiya (which he has no reason to). 

Orochimaru might do something, but he cannot restrict a Susano'o that can jump pretty high and shoot Enton arrows while moving.[/QUOTE]

The arrows can be dodged by Jiraiya especially given they will be coming from a distance. 


The problem with the way you view this battle is that everything goes absolutely perfect for Sasuke and the Sannin essentially do nothing. No battle ever has ever worked out like that.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 17, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> If he ignites Oro he will just use Rebirth so that isn't much of a problem. I am not sure how well Tsunades healing will work against Amaterasu though.



Oro will have to keep doing it then, as Sasuke can cover his Susano'o with Amaterasu, making any touch deadly.



> And that is assuming it hits. We have seen a lot of people with some sort of counter or answer to the problem.



Sensors are the only ones that showed the ability to do that. Nobody here has the means to do it.



> Again, that is assuming they don't dodge him and aren't sending attacks of his own. It isn't like the Sannin will just stand there and let him continuously attack without responding. That has never happened in a fight.



Of course, but Jiraiya needs to run to get into sage mode, Tsunade only can use taijutsu, wich is meaningless as Sasuke can cut her in half and burn her at the same time with Amaterasu. Orochimaru's Kusanagi is not piercing that version of Susano'o that Sasuke can use and cannot stop him. Sasuke can go for Jiraiya and pressure him while jumping and covering the battlefield with Amaterasu.



> And of course this is all assuming he makes the decision to start off by rushing Jiraiya (which he has no reason to).



If he sees him running, he might. Also, knowing how cocky Jiraiya is, standing up to two Akatsuki members and thinking he could beat Pain alone makes me doubt he will initially run and use sage mode. Especially having two partners here, so he might as well be taken out by Sasuke's superios firepower, defense, speed, reflexes... Basically almost anything.



> The arrows can be dodged by Jiraiya especially given they will be coming from a distance.



Depending on the distance, and if Jiraiya is expecting it. he might as well try to help his team if he sees them overwhelmed.



> The problem with the way you view this battle is that everything goes absolutely perfect for Sasuke and the Sannin essentially do nothing. No battle ever has ever worked out like that.



I am not seeing that way. I am saying that nothing Tsunade and Oro can do will stop Sasuke from killing Jiraiya. The other way around, Oro can be severely handicaped and Tsunade can get killed trying to do it. Also, there is no reason for Jiraiya to run and use sage mode at the start of the fight, therefore this is an advantage given to them here.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Also, there is no reason for Jiraiya to run and use sage mode at the start of the fight, therefore this is an advantage given to them here.



Assuming Jiraiya stays to fight for a bit it doesn't necessarily change much because he can hold Susanoo down by using Yomi Numa. So either way Sasuke is going to have problems. It is just a question of which order they happen in. 

He doesn't have unlimited chakra either.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 17, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> Assuming Jiraiya stays to fight for a bit it doesn't necessarily change much because he can hold Susanoo down by using Yomi Numa. So either way Sasuke is going to have problems. It is just a question of which order they happen in.
> 
> He doesn't have unlimited chakra either.



Sasuke can make it bigger and get out of it, his Perfect Susano'o might not have feats, but it's big enough step on the swamp effortessly.

I am not saying he has unlimited chakra, but Tsunade and Oro are not doing much to him in order to make him go wasted.


----------



## Veracity (Mar 17, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Naruto's Bijuudama dwarf mountain ranges. We're talking about the "proprietor of all things" which Naruto is an ant to.
> 
> We never saw the ocean explosion so really we can't draw anything from there. You're really grasping at straws here.
> 
> Defeating Juubi and creating a moon are not hype, hype is suggesting a character is at a certain level. RS has the feats, why the fuck should the Sannin be anything more to him then fodder? ET Hokages included. Hashirama already admitted Juubito was beyond him, we're talking about someone who is much stronger.



Naruto's BD diameter is like the size of a mountain range. Do you know how big a country or even a continent is compared to a mountain range ? Lol if you live in Alaska you'll realize that the city of anchorage is laced with like 10-12 mountain ranges surrounding the general area. The Juubis TBB would have to be hundreds of times larger then Naruto's and then it would be about 1/3 the size of Alaska about the size of Texas which is where we began this conversation. Having the AoE of the second biggest state is saying something. Seeing that explosion in your face would literally dwarf anything Naruto did. Is that as big as a continent or even a country ? Yeah not even close basically.

How did we not see the ocean explosion? We see he water overlapping the rocks in this panel just fine lol ; [2]
That explosion doesn't even look that big tbh, but Kishis weird. So unless you actually assume Minato managed to placed that FTG seal several "small countries " away then it would have killed the entire SA would it have not ? 

That doesn't even make logical sense ? You can't have a planet without a moon ya know ? So unless we actually have a feat for this then it's still hype. Someone mentioned the Gedo Mazo being pulled down from the moon. If that can be proven in a scan then I'll admit that So6p lives up to his hype. If not then it's still hype because it's illogical and hasn't been proven.


----------



## Kai (Mar 17, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Anyway Juubidara should not be far off from what the Sage is capable off, he's only missing 1 half of Kyuubi and 1-Rinnegan. He's more powerful for sure, but I have extreme doubts about Juubidara being able to beat Edo Hashirama, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Minato, Edo Tobirama, Jiriaya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru, like-wise I have some doubts the Sage is capable of that, though I wouldn't be surprised ether.


When Juubito first appeared, Madara stated he would love to see the Hokages squirm before his (Juubito's) power.

Obito in his first form as jinchuuriki no more than casually destroyed the most powerful barrier collectively created by the four Hokage. Hashirama expressed inferiority immediately against Obito's first form. Blitzed Tobirama and Hiruzen with nil difficulty, and proved to be superior to the team of Edo Minato, Edo Tobirama, Naruto, and Sasuke in his controlled state. The Hokages are not on the level of a Juubi's Jin.

Naturally, they don't come even close to Madara's power as jinchuuriki who is perfected beyond Obito, let alone Hagoromo at full power with his ultimate power to create and destroy. This is without going into the fact that Hashirama can't even express his full power as an Edo Tensei.


----------



## The Undying (Mar 17, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Implying that his legged Susano'o won't oneshot all 3 of them combined
> 
> Implying that his PS needs any feats for us to make the assumption that he'd oneshot Sannin with it




I'm not implying shit, hence "just for the record". You really need to learn what an implication is.

EDIT: I'll comment on your fanfiction anyway. The assumption that his PS will manage to oneshot them at all doesn't have a modicum of evidence to back it up. For all we know, it could be a fraction of the strength Madara's PS demonstrated. It's also hilarious that you believe his legged Susanoo is enough to oneshot the three of them when Tsunade went toe to toe with _five_, and if you observe Sasuke's body size in relation to his legged Susanoo, it definitely wasn't any bigger than what Madara was using against the Gokage.

If you want to make an argument for Sasuke using Amaterasu or Enton, fine, but magically giving his Susanoo abilities that it has never actually shown really says a lot about your reasoning skills.


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Sasuke can make it bigger and get out of it, his Perfect Susano'o might not have feats, but it's big enough step on the swamp effortessly.
> 
> I am not saying he has unlimited chakra, but Tsunade and Oro are not doing much to him in order to make him go wasted.



Jiraiya can make the swamp bigger too and he has more chakra than Sasuke by a long shot.

Jiraiya dwarfed a big summon in his swamp while poisoned.


----------



## Jad (Mar 17, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> Seeing Gai's name come up too much in this thread as well. We haven't even seen what 8 gates is going to accomplish and 7 gates is no guarantee of beating any of the Sannin alone. I really doubt 8 is going to be so impressive that he can suddenly solo the trio.
> 
> Again, I don't think people are really realizing how hard these 3 are to put down. Not just based on skill but Oro and Tsunade are quite literally almost un-killable at times because of their healing. I all hold off on any final judgment until we actually see this 8 gate attack and how long Gai can maintain but again, I seriously doubt it is going to make that much of a difference.



Ehh, I have a hard time seeing Tsunade staying conscious (let alone not have head blown off) with a 7 Gated blitzing to the head. I point out the 'conscious' part explicitly since I don't remember a ninjutsu or genjutsu technique that has worked when the user is _out_. Same with Orochimaru (the head being eviscerated of course). I mean a prepubescent Juubi Obito without fully matured powers, as seen without the coat, was able to completely break free of Myoun Jinmon [1][2]. He also effortless broke Sasuke's Sasunoo Rib Cage very easily [3].

Yet a much more powerful Juubidara was getting pushed back by a 7 Gated Gai, even after pointing out how he thought he [Madara] was being underestimated. Madara does not strike me as the type of guy to move backwards from strikes by someone he thought was underestimating him. He comes off as the type of guy who would want to show how insignificant that person really is [4]. So yeah, 7 Gated Gai should comfortably be able to blitz and kill either Tsunade or Orochimaru. They aren't made out of some form of diamond, let alone Sasuke's ribcage Sasuno's bone. Which a standing [stop] Raikage was able to break/shatter with one blow.

When you put the Juubi Obito feat, how he quite comfortably broke free of Hashirama's technique, to how Gai was pushing back someone who is much stronger then Juubi Obito. You can get a feel of how much energy is being poured into those fists. Otherwise, Juubi Dara could have just comfortably blocked Gai's taijutsu with one hand and not moved one-inch. According to how most layer Gai's assault....​


----------



## Cyphon (Mar 17, 2014)

Jad said:


> Ehh, I have a hard time seeing Tsunade staying conscious (let alone not have head blown off) with a 7 Gated blitzing to the head. I point out the 'conscious' part explicitly since I don't remember a ninjutsu or genjutsu technique that has worked when the user is _out_. Same with Orochimaru (the head being eviscerated of course). I mean a prepubescent Juubi Obito without fully matured powers, as seen without the coat, was able to completely break free of Myoun Jinmon [1][2].​




It is quite possible Tsunade would lose consciousness but that begs the question: if she has the seal activated would it immediately wake her up with its healing power? 

In Oro's case his whole body is a snake so even head removal may be able to be put back together by the snakes reconnecting. I am thinking you would actually need to crush the head or body so that it wasn't functional anymore. 

The problem is that while Gai is attempting this there are 2 other people who can attack him or prepare traps and such. 

That is always the problem when talking about who can beat the Sannin. We can gauge a 1 on 1 outcome or interaction but there is no predicting what the other 2 would do and how effective it would be given any specific circumstance.​


----------



## Jagger (Mar 17, 2014)

Are you people really trying to argue for the Sannin against the Rikkudo Sennin? Have you all lost your minds?

Ok, let's see. On his deathbed, Hagoromo (without the Juubi's chakra as it wouldn't make sense otherwise) was capable of creating a technique so large it easily dwarfs Shinsuusenju, Hashirama's strongest technique. With that, you can easily escalate how powerful his other Rinnegan-related jutsu are, for example: Shinra Tensei, Asura's different mechanical changes, etc. It's common sense.

Let's even look at the subject from another perspective: Madara, without the Juubi and without his left eye, trashed Tobirama, Naruto, Sasuke and the other 8 Bijuu (yes, this also implies he trashed Bee as well) with barely using another jutsu other than sealing and the Ringo Hengoku. No Susano'O, no Mokuton, no Shinra Tensei, etc. And all of this without the Juubi.

With the Juubi, he easily trashed Kakashi, Minato and Gaara with just Taijutsu. We all saw how powerful Juubito is (he merely lost because of his arrogance and Naruto forced him to see the side he thought it was dad a long time ago), now imagine what Madara can do (considering even Minato said so himself) and without the Kyuubi's Yin half and his remaining eye.

Guess what? Hagoromo possesses such things.


----------



## Jad (Mar 17, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> It is quite possible Tsunade would lose consciousness but that begs the question: if she has the seal activated would it immediately wake her up with its healing power?



I did mention her head being torn off her shoulders though. But so far there has been a mean track record of jutsu's not working once concentration or consciousnesses goes out the window. I can't think of an example where that rule has been broken.



> In Oro's case his whole body is a snake so even head removal may be able to be put back together by the snakes reconnecting. I am thinking you would actually need to crush the head or body so that it wasn't functional anymore.



I was talking more in the sense of his brains popping out the back of his head. Which I think at this point, I believe Gai can do in his 7th Gate.



> The problem is that while Gai is attempting this there are 2 other people who can attack him or prepare traps and such.
> 
> That is always the problem when talking about who can beat the Sannin. We can gauge a 1 on 1 outcome or interaction but there is no predicting what the other 2 would do and how effective it would be given any specific circumstance.



I was just talking in the sense that if Gai took one of them on.


----------



## Krippy (Mar 17, 2014)

Turrin said:


>


Resorting to irrelevant images to try to save face?

Sorry bro, its too late to take back almost a page worth of terrible posts.



Legendary Itachi said:


> Well well, Dat accurate Frog Call immobilize 2 Big summons and Ma and Pa shooting together on Sauce should be 2x powerful before he can move......
> 
> We know a 30% Base Jiraiya can trap a big snake with Yomi Numa, not even Madara PS can get rid of that powerful 100% Senpo swamp......
> 
> ...


Hahahaha 


The Undying said:


> I'm not implying shit, hence "just for the record". You really need to learn what an implication is.
> 
> EDIT: I'll comment on your fanfiction anyway. The assumption that his PS will manage to oneshot them at all doesn't have a modicum of evidence to back it up. For all we know, it could be a fraction of the strength Madara's PS demonstrated. It's also hilarious that you believe his legged Susanoo is enough to oneshot the three of them when Tsunade went toe to toe with _five_, and if you observe Sasuke's body size in relation to his legged Susanoo, it definitely wasn't any bigger than what Madara was using against the Gokage.
> 
> If you want to make an argument for Sasuke using Amaterasu or Enton, fine, but magically giving his Susanoo abilities that it has never actually shown really says a lot about your reasoning skills.



5 weak ass susanoo clones vs a Susanoo that was keeping up with BM Naruto's kurama avatar and cut a mountain sized root with ease. Not to mention can use Enton for greater damage yield. 

Quality comparision. 



Cyphon said:


> Jiraiya can make the swamp bigger too and he has more chakra than Sasuke by a long shot.



Raiton nullifies the swamp. Is there anything that supports Jiraiya's massively superior chakra reserves?


----------



## The Undying (Mar 17, 2014)

Krippy said:


> 5 weak ass susanoo clones vs a Susanoo that was keeping up with BM Naruto's kurama avatar and cut a mountain sized root with ease. Not to mention can use Enton for greater damage yield.
> 
> Quality comparision.



"Keeping up with" =/= matching full speed.

Cutting a large root =/= more damage output than Madara's legged Susanoo, which casually broke through a full-powered Subaku Soutaisoufuuin with ease.

A conversation about Sasuke's Susanoo by itself =/= a conversation about Sasuke's Susanoo combined with something else, like Enton. Understand that this is not a Sasuke vs. Sannin discussion. Do you really think Sasuke stomps the Sannin with no difficulty even if he's restricted to using a legged version of Susanoo and absolutely no other technique?

There's nothing flawed about that comparison, and certainly nothing to suggest that Madara's legged Susanoo is somehow weaker if he's using a clone.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 17, 2014)

Turrin said:


>



There is no amount of proof or logic will ever work with itachi's fans. They even think that
MS itachi can defeat EMS madara & Kurama. 
so you only waste your time. U_U


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 17, 2014)

Cyphon said:


> Jiraiya can make the swamp bigger too and he has more chakra than Sasuke by a long shot.
> 
> Jiraiya dwarfed a big summon in his swamp while poisoned.



Sasuke's non perfect Susano'o is as tall as Kurama, we don't know if Jiraiya can make a swap big enough make the Susano'o drown and avoid it's movements, let alone Perfect Susano'o. And we don't know if Jiraiya has more chakra than EMS Sasuke either, though.

Also, he didn't dwarfed the snake, not all parts of them were caught, and Susano'o taller if we count the position of the snake.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 17, 2014)

Wait, people really think Jiraiya's swamp can sink Sasuke's susanoo? Have people forgotten that Madara's legged susanoo easily broke out of Gaara's sand pyramid, which was enhanced by Shukaku as well? That sand is likely far more potent in terms of immobilization than Jiraiya's swamp, so unless you think Madara's legged susanoo is far more powerful than Sasuke's (which there's really no proof of) then Jiraiya's swamp isn't going to do much. 

And what is this about Jiraiya having more chakra than Sasuke? You mind backing up such a claim because I don't recall there being any evidence that points toward it.


----------



## Senjuclan (Mar 17, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And what is this about Jiraiya having more chakra than Sasuke? You mind backing up such a claim because I don't recall there being any evidence that points toward it.



The databook stats point to Jiraiya having more chakra. The fact that he could learn sage mode points to him having more chakra than Sasuke who gets tired after a couple of MS jutsus


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Mar 17, 2014)

Senjuclan said:


> The databook stats point to Jiraiya having more chakra.



You mean outdated stats that haven't been relevant since the start of part 2? 



> The fact that he could learn sage mode points to him having more chakra than Sasuke



And how does that prove anything when Sasuke's never even attempted to learn senjutsu? There's no comparison. 



> who gets tired after a couple of MS jutsus



Really? Because from what I've seen Sasuke's been spamming MS jutsu after MS jutsu along with other jutsu lately with practically no side effect. Or are we reading 2 entirely different manga? 

None of these arguments fly and you know it.


----------



## Lord Aizen (Mar 17, 2014)

I noticed not too many people said hanzo when he's the guy who let them live and named them


----------



## Bonly (Mar 17, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> I noticed not too many people said hanzo when he's the guy who let them live and named them



Prolly because we don't know what he can fully do. He may have beat then when they was younger but that doesn't mean he could beat them as we last seen all of the Sannin and with lack of feats hard to say if he could do it again.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 17, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Resorting to irrelevant images to try to save face?
> 
> Sorry bro, its too late to take back almost a page worth of terrible posts.


Alright bro, let's stay on topic:



Krippy said:


> Hashirama
> Madara
> Naruto
> Sasuke
> ...


This is with Edo-Tensei unrestricted: Killer B is touts > Jiraiya, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Edo Hashirama, Edo Tobirama, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Minato


----------



## Jagger (Mar 18, 2014)

New Folder said:


> There is no amount of proof or logic will ever work with itachi's fans. They even think that
> MS itachi can defeat EMS madara & Kurama.
> so you only waste your time. U_U


Yet, when I ask you how would Jiraiya defeat them both, you can't properly answer my question.

Inb4 But the same thing goes to Hagoromo as well.

No, we already know the Sage was capable of doing that. Even the different versions of Nagato, Obito, MAdara and even Kurama point out that everything the original Rikkudo did is canon as well.

The fact Juudara and Juubito did what they did with the heroes implies that as well.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 18, 2014)

Itachi beating EMS Madara is more likely then the Sannin beating Rikudo Sennin though. A puppy can pester a wolf, 3 fleas can't bother a bear.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

Wait, are we still doubting if RS was as powerful as Obito? Let's ask Obito:



There, we know what RS was capable of.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 18, 2014)

The thing is, RS managed to subdue and seal a Prime Juubi with just his own abilities. I can't see any character (not even Rinne Tensei Madara) having the skills to do that, then he absorbed Prime Juubi and more or less became a God. Nagato stated he made a moon with CT, he can abuse Juubidama, has some form of Izanagi power and Juubi durability.

No one in the Narutoverse comes remotely close I feel at this stage, the only thing I could see that could come close to him is EoS Naruto. Juubidara and Juubito are powerful but they don't shit out moons on their deathbed.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

I think RS is stronger than Obito and Madara. I just put the scan ignoring that to avoid the use of lack of evidence as evidence from the opposition. Only having Juubito's powers is enough to fodderstomp the Sannin.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 18, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> I think RS is stronger than Obito and Madara. I just put the scan ignoring that to avoid the use of lack of evidence as evidence from the opposition. Only having Juubito's powers is enough to fodderstomp the Sannin.


I'm sorry but the Sannin would beat Juubito, unless you think Naruto + Sasuke + Rookies + Juugo > Jiraiya + Tsunade + Orochimaru + Edo Tobirama + Edo Hiruzen + Edo Hashirama + Edo Minato, which quite honestly I feel is completely ridiculous, when:

- Edo Minato alone possess all the same powers as Naruto, except longer Sennin Modo duration, but w/ Jiraiaya their to provide him w/ Senjutsu-Chakra or Fukasaku/Shima to fuse w/ him, that hardly matters. 

- Edo Hashirama was fighting on par with an Uchiha that would put Current EMS-Sasuke + Juugo to shame.

Meaning the Rookies would literally have to be > Edo Hiruzen, Edo Tobirama, Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru; for the team that beat Juubito to even remotely come close to being as strong as the Sannin, which is utterly laughable. 



> The thing is, RS managed to subdue and seal a Prime Juubi with just his own abilities. I can't see any character (not even Rinne Tensei Madara) having the skills to do that, then he absorbed Prime Juubi and more or less became a God.


Pretty sure it was implied he did that to stage 1 Juubi, not the Shinju-Tree. So basically both Obito and Madara accomplished the same feat.


----------



## Jad (Mar 18, 2014)

Well, to be fair, Hashirama can choose whether the wants to help or not. I don't remember him being under Orochimaru's control. I remember him overpowering it.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I'm sorry but the Sannin would beat Juubito, unless you think Naruto + Sasuke + Rookies + Juugo > Jiraiya + Tsunade + Orochimaru + Edo Tobirama + Edo Hiruzen + Edo Hashirama + Edo Minato, which quite honestly I feel is completely ridiculous, when:
> 
> - Edo Minato alone possess all the same powers as Naruto, except longer Sennin Modo duration, but w/ Jiraiaya their to provide him w/ Senjutsu-Chakra or Fukasaku/Shima to fuse w/ him, that hardly matters.
> 
> ...


Turrin seriously, you're better then this.

They could only defeat Juubito because Naruto could rip out the Bijuu due to having their chakra/names. Hashirama admitted inferiority to a lower stage of Juubito and he is eons stronger then the Sannin. Juubito can literally seal them up in his version of the Hokage Barrier (which may I remind Juubi couldn't bust so Sannin aren't doing shit to it) and use the 4 Juubidama combo which only Naruto and Minato together can escape.

Juubito slaughters the Sannin + ET Hokages. Why in the blue hell can Orochimaru even summon them? Juubito blitzed Tobirama, EMS Sasuke and KCM Naruto, people whose reflexes are eons above Orochimaru.
And...Juubidama have enough explosive power that to show the actual explosion Kishimoto showed the curvature of the planet.


----------



## Lawrence777 (Mar 18, 2014)

Edo Hashirama isn't a part of Orochimaru's power. Orochimaru would probably have to convince him to even fight for him at the very start of every battle. If he fails to convince Hashi, Hashi may even free the rest of the Edos.

The other Edo Hokage are part of Orochimaru's power, but then again they are completely sentient. They are that way and Orochi hasn't mind wiped them because they agree with the objective. If he does make them mindless, because he's up against someone they wouldn't fight against IC, there's no telling how much slower and less skilled they will become.


----------



## Jad (Mar 18, 2014)

Lawrence777 said:


> Edo Hashirama isn't a part of Orochimaru's power. Orochimaru would probably have to convince him to even fight for him at the very start of every battle. If he fails to convince Hashi, Hashi may even free the rest of the Edos.
> 
> The other Edo Hokage are part of Orochimaru's power, but then again they are completely sentient. They are that way and Orochi hasn't mind wiped them because they agree with the objective. If he does make them mindless, because he's up against someone they wouldn't fight against IC, there's no telling how much slower and less skilled they will become.



It would also be problematic if each Edo tried to break the Edo Tensei grip together at the same time. While they might not escape, Orochimaru would have to concentrate a good deal on trying to restrain them. Which means his pretty useless in a fight; example 1 example 2 You can see how his holding a seal, concentrating.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I'm sorry but the Sannin would beat Juubito, unless you think Naruto + Sasuke + Rookies + Juugo > Jiraiya + Tsunade + Orochimaru + Edo Tobirama + Edo Hiruzen + Edo Hashirama + Edo Minato, which quite honestly I feel is completely ridiculous, when:




 (again.)

All of the Edo Hokage took on Jubito except for Edo Hashirama, who was busy with Madara. Also, Naruto & Sasuke didn't beat Jubito with their attack. Everyone was needed to extract the Bijuu in a giant tug of war.

Entire cloaked alliance & Taka w/ Edo Hokage minus Edo Hashirama >>> Sannin with Edo Hokage


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I'm sorry but the Sannin would beat Juubito, unless you think Naruto + Sasuke + Rookies + Juugo > Jiraiya + Tsunade + Orochimaru + Edo Tobirama + Edo Hiruzen + Edo Hashirama + Edo Minato, which quite honestly I feel is completely ridiculous, when:
> 
> - Edo Minato alone possess all the same powers as Naruto, except longer Sennin Modo duration, but w/ Jiraiaya their to provide him w/ Senjutsu-Chakra or Fukasaku/Shima to fuse w/ him, that hardly matters.
> 
> ...



No, just no. Juubito would blitz the hell out of the three of them before Edo Tensei comes into play. Juubito would blitz the hell out of Hashirama and Tobirama like he did in canon. Hashirama fighting on par with somebody that doesn't come close to Juubito is nothing, they don't have a perfect Susano'o user in this team. Hashirama's chances will be decreasing as Juubito blitzes the hell out of the Sannin and Hashirama and Minato are the only ones left to be stomped.

Let's be serious, please.


----------



## Mercurial (Mar 18, 2014)

Juubito would blitz Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru's head in a millisecond. Please. Just please. I... I can't... I don't even.


----------



## Kai (Mar 18, 2014)

Moreover, Hashirama and Tobirama can't express their full power in their ET states.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

Indeed. Neither here, though.


----------



## Krippy (Mar 18, 2014)

The Undying said:


> "Keeping up with" =/= matching full speed.



Bijuu Naruto with sage sensing expressed difficulty in tagging Juubito. There is no reason for him to have held back in speed. 



> Cutting a large root =/= more damage output than Madara's legged Susanoo, which casually broke through a full-powered Subaku Soutaisoufuuin with ease.



Don't see how this proves it's stronger. The root was _*much*_ bigger than his Susano'o while the coffin was maybe 2 or 3 times as big.



> A conversation about Sasuke's Susanoo by itself =/= a conversation about Sasuke's Susanoo combined with something else, like Enton.



Why would you separate the two when they are usually used in conjunction w/ each other?



> Understand that this is not a Sasuke vs. Sannin discussion. Do you really think Sasuke stomps the Sannin with no difficulty even if he's restricted to using a legged version of Susanoo and absolutely no other technique?



He wouldn't stomp but he would dominate the fight. The only reason the Sannin would be able to pull out a win in that scenario is because of their regen.




> There's nothing flawed about that comparison, and certainly nothing to suggest that Madara's legged Susanoo is somehow weaker if he's using a clone.



Kishi has made it pretty clear that clones dont perform as well as the original. Madara observed his clones getting Jinton'd because they didn't activate preta path in time. Tobirama said using clones with Hiraishin is too slow to use against Obito. And lets not forget KCM Naruto and his 13 clones.

dividing up chakra = reduced performance



			
				Turrin said:
			
		

> This is with Edo-Tensei unrestricted: Killer B is touts > Jiraiya, Tsunade, Orochimaru, Edo Hashirama, Edo Tobirama, Edo Hiruzen, Edo Minato



Yes, because Oro will whip out 4 fresh sacrifices out his ass, Prep the ash, and summon them before Bee goes Bijuu Mode and nukes.

Actually I take that back, he wouldn't rapestomp, but he'd win more times than not (8/10)


----------



## Trojan (Mar 18, 2014)

Oro should be fine with his ET. @.@
He said he can use all 4 Hokages to attack konoha. @.@

*Spoiler*: __ 













He told Hiruzen that he may use *all* of them, or when he asked Sasuke about his decision, or when Hashi asked oro about what he wants...etc 

That because Oro had the upper hand. @.@


----------



## Lawrence777 (Mar 18, 2014)

In the event Sasuke wasn't satisfied, how do you envision Orochimaru would of gone about that threat of using them to destroy Konoha with freed Hashirama 5 feet away from him? How would it play out?


----------



## The Undying (Mar 18, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Bijuu Naruto with sage sensing expressed difficulty in tagging Juubito. There is no reason for him to have held back in speed.



Bijuu Naruto was using his sensing abilities to extrapolate and predict Juubito's movements. I don't believe they were charging at full speed so much as just striking at the area where Juubito was going to appear. I definitely don't think it concretely says anything about how much Sasuke's actual movement speed compares to Naruto's.



> Don't see how this proves it's stronger. The root was _*much*_ bigger than his Susano'o while the coffin was maybe 2 or 3 times as big.



Size is not necessarily directly proportional to strength. That was Gaara's strongest sand pyramid enhanced by sealing and further enhanced by Shukaku's power. There's seriously no reason to think it was less durable than the root Sasuke cut, especially when considering the Shinju could probably just grow it back anyway.




> Why would you separate the two when they are usually used in conjunction w/ each other?



Because the entire discussion rested on Sasuke only needing a legged Susanoo to oneshot the Sannin? Not "winning", not "dominating", _oneshotting_.




> Kishi has made it pretty clear that clones dont perform as well as the original. Madara observed his clones getting Jinton'd because they didn't activate preta path in time. Tobirama said using clones with Hiraishin is too slow to use against Obito. And lets not forget KCM Naruto and his 13 clones.



You're right, but I wasn't referring to Madara's performance and techniques overall; just his Susanoo. If I were to extend this kind of reasoning to the clones, I'd say they are less capable in the sense that they likely can't upgrade their Susanoo bodies beyond the legged versions. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that their own legged Susanoo bodies are any less powerful or durable than Madara's legged Susanoo. Madara even says something along the lines of "Now how will you deal with five of these?", implying that the Gokage were about to fight him at five times the raw strength he was using before.

Look, the only point I was trying to make is that we can't really gauge Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo by itself. It needs feats and/or dialogue statements to support its capabilities first, which will probably come later on anyway.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 18, 2014)

Rocky said:


> (again.)
> 
> All of the Edo Hokage took on Jubito except for Edo Hashirama, who was busy with Madara. Also, Naruto & Sasuke didn't beat Jubito with their attack. Everyone was needed to extract the Bijuu in a giant tug of war.
> 
> Entire cloaked alliance & Taka w/ Edo Hokage minus Edo Hashirama >>> Sannin with Edo Hokage


You don't seem to get it no one can defeat Juubi Jins w/o Senjutsu or ridiculous Taijutsu; so the Kages vs Juubito was pointless without that knowledge and without Hashirama there all they would have is Minato's half assed Sennin Modo. So Hashirama and gaining that knowledge were key. If all 4 Edo Hokages engaged Juubito from the jump w/ knowledge o having to use Senjutsu, they would have overpowered him, just as Naruto/Sasuke/Juugo/Rookies did.

Obito was overpowered by them. The bijuu being pulled out was just because Naruto wanted to free the Bijuu; otherwise they could have just kept beating him down w/ successive blows, until he was dead.



LostSelf said:


> No, just no. Juubito would blitz the hell out of the three of them before Edo Tensei comes into play. Juubito would blitz the hell out of Hashirama and Tobirama like he did in canon. Hashirama fighting


Unless the match starts at Short, the chances of Jubito being able to blitz all of the Sannin killing them before Orochimaru can cast a single Jutsu is slim. And remember that Jubito has to not just deal a normal killing blow on Orochimaru, but outright eradicate him or Orochimaru will still be able to survive to cast Edo-Tensei



> Hashirama fighting on par with somebody that doesn't come close to Juubito is nothing, they don't have a perfect Susano'o user in this team. Hashirama's chances will be decreasing as Juubito blitzes the hell out of the Sannin and Hashirama and Minato are the only ones left to be stomped.


Yeah because Minato and Hashirama will just stand there while he does that, doing nothing. Seems touts realistic.



Krippy said:


> Yes, because Oro will whip out 4 fresh sacrifices out his ass, Prep the ash, and summon them before Bee goes Bijuu Mode and nukes.
> 
> Actually I take that back, he wouldn't rapestomp, but he'd win more times than not (8/10)



So apparently your stand point is fuck the actual stipulations of the match, i'm going to make up my own, than bitch about people who don't hold my opinion, because they are going off the OP's actual stipulations rather than your made up ones.


----------



## Kai (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Obito was overpowered by them. The bijuu being pulled out was just because Naruto wanted to free the Bijuu; otherwise they could have just kept beating him down w/ successive blows, until he was dead.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 18, 2014)

And your point is what Kai. There were focusing all their power into a single attack, to overpower Jubito. 

I mean you do realize that Naruto and Sasuke combined created a much weaker Kyuubi-Susano'o than Madara, which Hashirama defeated. The only difference is the addition of Senjutsu, which Hashirama can use. Edo Hashirama alone is therefore potentially equivalent to the power that overpowered Jubito, less the rookies, but if your going to tell me Rookies > Sannin + other Edo Hokages, I simply can't agree.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin, damn.

Juubito isn't losing to the Sannin, even if they do have Edo Tensei; he's casually blitzing and evicerating them before they can mount a proper offense--and their Edo Tensei as well, if they even have a chance to be summoned.

Itachi would beat Orochimaru with Edo Tensei due to simply being that much better than Orochimaru, so I'm not even sure why you bother to act like it will make a difference against a Juubi Jinchuuriki who is _*actually stronger than all the Kage combined*_.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 18, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Turrin, damn.
> 
> Juubito isn't losing to the Sannin, even if they do have Edo Tensei; he's casually blitzing and evicerating them before they can mount a proper offense--and their Edo Tensei as well, if they even have a chance to be summoned.
> .


A mokuton clone was able to hold back Jubito briefly. There is no way in hell the Sannin all get blitz'd before Orochimaru can use a single Jutsu, unless the conditions are vastly skewed in Jubito's favor.

The rest of this post is delusional; Orochimaru fodderize Itachi.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> A mokuton clone was able to hold back Jubito briefly. There is no way in hell the Sannin all get blitz'd before Orochimaru can use a single Jutsu, unless the conditions are vastly skewed in Jubito's favor.



Juubito doesn't need any special conditions; he blitzes and one-shots the Sannin regardless of the circumstances, with or without Edo Tensei on the field.

And then he blitzes and one-shots all of those, too.



> The rest of this post is delusional;



I agree, because...



> Orochimaru fodderize Itachi.







You're actually arguing against the manga canon itself.


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Unless the match starts at Short, the chances of Jubito being able to blitz all of the Sannin killing them before Orochimaru can cast a single Jutsu is slim. And remember that Jubito has to not just deal a normal killing blow on Orochimaru, but outright eradicate him or Orochimaru will still be able to survive to cast Edo-Tensei



Yet, the match starts at 15m, enough for Juubito to cut them all in half. And he doesn't need to, he can take down Orochimaru over and over again and the other two can do nothing about it. We also don't know if Oro won't be like the Edos when Juubito hit them.



> Yeah because Minato and Hashirama will just stand there while he does that, doing nothing. Seems touts realistic.



It's not like they can do a thing. I recall Minato being fodderized and Hashirama admitted inferiority. And i recall Juubito creating a huge barrier that needed Minato and Naruto's chakra sharing to save everybody.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 18, 2014)

Wasn't an untamed Juubito able to blitz though Hashirama's clone, Tobirama and old Hiruzen?


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 18, 2014)

That he was.

The Sannin get balled up and tossed aside like used tissues.


----------



## Turrin (Mar 18, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Juubito doesn't need any special conditions; he blitzes and one-shots the Sannin regardless of the circumstances, with or without Edo Tensei on the field.
> 
> And then he blitzes and one-shots all of those, too.


Yup Mokuton-Clone is touts stronger than Sannin



> You're actually arguing against the manga canon itself.


Dude I totally forgot how Gedo Rinnei Tensei was used to bring back Itachi and he fought Current Orochimaru, with Current Orochimaru making the exact same mistakes as last time he fought Itachi despite have much more comprehensive knowledge. Man I missed so many chapters 



LostSelf said:


> Yet, the match starts at 15m, enough for Juubito to cut them all in half. And he doesn't need to, he can take down Orochimaru over and over again and the other two can do nothing about it. We also don't know if Oro won't be like the Edos when Juubito hit them.


15m is a big distance bruv. Saying Juubito blitz' them all before Orochimaru can use Edo Tensei, is basically saying he covers 15m and defeats Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru in less than a second. Don't think Kishi is writing that shit, I just don't.



> It's not like they can do a thing. I recall Minato being fodderized and Hashirama admitted inferiority. And i recall Juubito creating a huge barrier that needed Minato and Naruto's chakra sharing to save everybody.


Because fighting 1v1 is the same as fighting in a group.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 18, 2014)

A Mokuton clone is a lot weaker than Hashirama.

With Hashirama, a clone being a lot weaker than him could possibly be well mean being above some of the stronger characters we know e.g. the Sannin.


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yup Mokuton-Clone is touts stronger than Sannin



The irony, of course, is that it actually probably is if it's Hashirama's. 



> Dude I totally forgot how Gedo Rinnei Tensei was used to bring back Itachi and he fought Current Orochimaru, with Current Orochimaru making the exact same mistakes as last time he fought Itachi despite have much more comprehensive knowledge. Man I missed so many chapters



Why would we need to see something that already happened? Itachi dismantled Orochimaru--twice. Nothing about Oro has changed, except now he has his arms back, which wasn't enough to beat Itachi the first time. Orochimaru had Edo Tensei and he had access to the first and second Hokage; didn't matter then and wouldn't matter now because Itachi takes his arm and beats him over the head with it.

"If we had gotten Itachi in the first place, there wouldn't have been any problems. But that is an impossible dream now...because he is stronger than me... That's why...I left that organization..."


----------



## LostSelf (Mar 18, 2014)

Turrin said:


> 15m is a big distance bruv. Saying Juubito blitz' them all before Orochimaru can use Edo Tensei, is basically saying he covers 15m and defeats Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru in less than a second. Don't think Kishi is writing that shit, I just don't.



Yes, he can. 15 is not a big distance to the Juubi jin, come on. I fail to see the Sannins reflexes to assume Oro will use Edo Tensei before Juubito closes the distance and fucks Orochimaru badly before the other two can react.

You don't see Kishi writting Juubito fodderizing three kage level opponent that are tiers below Naruto, Minato and Sasuke? Because i do.



> Because fighting 1v1 is the same as fighting in a group.


Wasn't Juubito fodderizing Minato when he was with Naruto and Sasuke? And fodderizing everyone with the God Tree?


----------



## Nikushimi (Mar 18, 2014)

It's funny that we're even talking about whether or not Oro would get a chance to use Edo Tensei, despite the fact that it made absolutely no fucking difference in the manga. They were like kids throwing rocks at a bull.


----------



## Jagger (Mar 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Wasn't an untamed Juubito able to blitz though Hashirama's clone, Tobirama and old Hiruzen?


Exactly.

The only reason Juubito lost is because Naruto somehow connected to his feelings and made him see the kind of person he could have been compared to the person he currently is.

I very much doubt any of the Sannin or the Hokage are capable of achieving that when not even Jiraiya conviced his own former student to stop trying to kill him. 

Turrin, I don't even understand you anymore. They lack the firepower to kill him at all. We saw a glimpse of the Juubi's power and it had Naruto and Minato running away from the attack and mainly because of Naruto's ability to share chakra with everyone else, something Minato was confirmed to not being capable of doing.

Hiruzen and Tobirama gets trashed. The most annoying summons are Minato (due FTG) and Hashirama due his Sage Mode.


----------



## trance (Mar 19, 2014)

Turrin said:


> 15m is a big distance bruv. Saying Juubito blitz' them all before Orochimaru can use Edo Tensei, is basically saying he covers 15m and defeats Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru in less than a second. Don't think Kishi is writing that shit, I just don't.



What? 

Juubito appeared behind Minato when he was still learning to control the Juubi's powers. He outsped someone hyped as the fastest ninja to ever live and blitzed and tore Hashirama in half. He sure as fuck blitzes any of the Sannin, whom don't have reactions to suggest they can react to him in time. 

15m is approximately 45 feet. That's actually small distance.


----------



## Orochibuto (Mar 19, 2014)

Gai can beat the Sannin.


----------



## ? (Mar 19, 2014)

? said:


> Hashirama
> Madara
> Obito
> Naruto
> ...


+                                                          gai


----------

