# Clemency denied for death row inmate Troy Davis



## The Pink Ninja (Sep 20, 2011)

> (Reuters) - A parole board in Georgia on Tuesday denied a last-ditch clemency appeal by Troy Davis, who is set to be executed on Wednesday for the murder of a police officer in a case that has attracted international attention.
> 
> Davis was convicted of the 1989 killing of police officer Mark MacPhail near a Burger King restaurant in the city of Savannah along the Atlantic coast of the southern U.S. state.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/us-usa-execution-georgia-idUSTRE78J6UH20110920

I know the US justice system is a bad joke from end to end but even I never thought they'd execute such an obviously innocent man.

He was convicted entirely on witness evidence (Nothing physical, no murder weapon), seven out of nine of whom have recanted their testimony saying they were pressured by police to finger Davis. Ten new witnesses have come forwards saying they believe the killer was the man who reported Davis to the police in the first place.

Let's burn Georgia down again : /


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## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/us-usa-execution-georgia-idUSTRE78J6UH20110920
> 
> I know the US justice system is a bad joke from end to end but even I never thought they'd execute such an obviously innocent man.
> 
> ...



Resurrect William Sherman, my good man.

But this is a damn shame.  This is a God damn shame  Granted I don't need Mr. Jagland to tell me this, but nothing added up at all with this.  This is a lot less doubtful than Mumia or whomever else.

God damn shame...


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## Bishop (Sep 20, 2011)

What are the chances that after they killed him, they find proof that he was innocent?


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## Darth inVaders (Sep 20, 2011)

I wouldn't call him "obviously innocent" but "very likely innocent" fits
My sympathies to the MacPhail family, but this is a travesty to justice to proceed - a new trial is the only moral option (with more investigation into this other possible suspect too)



Bishop said:


> What are the chances that after they killed him, they find proof that he was innocent?


None probably, nobody ever thinks of discrediting the death penalty system by actually proving innocent people have been killed - all resources are devoted to saving those innocents who are still alive (although that is kinda hard to argue against)


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## DisgustingIdiot (Sep 20, 2011)

"MacPhail's family says Davis is guilty and should be executed."

Oh so because they're related to the victim they know who's guilty? Fuck them.


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## Darth inVaders (Sep 20, 2011)

Rob said:


> "MacPhail's family says Davis is guilty and should be executed."
> 
> Oh so because they're related to the victim they know who's guilty? Fuck them.



Dude, they are the family of the victim - they've latched all their blame onto the person they were told is guilty - have some sympathy for their suffering too


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## DisgustingIdiot (Sep 20, 2011)

They want someone to die because there's a chance that he's the guilty one, fuck them.


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## The Pink Ninja (Sep 20, 2011)

I have been looking for evidence for the prosecution and so far all I see is a judge who doesn't know what "Reasonable Doubt" means : /



Darth inVaders said:


> I wouldn't call him "obviously innocent" but "very likely innocent" fits
> My sympathies to the MacPhail family, but this is a travesty to justice to proceed - a new trial is the only moral option (with more investigation into this other possible suspect too)
> 
> 
> None probably, nobody ever thinks of discrediting the death penalty system by actually proving innocent people have been killed - all resources are devoted to saving those innocents who are still alive (although that is kinda hard to argue against)



It's been investigated and as far as I can tell there have been no modern cases of executed innocents (But it depends where you draw the year line, obviously a metric ton of innocent black men were executed in the south before the passing of the civil rights act and probably many more afterwards).

And personally I think obvious is a fair enough word when there's no physical evidence and 80% of the witnesses and a bunch of the jury have changed their mind.


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## Mael (Sep 20, 2011)

The Pink Ninja said:


> I have been looking for evidence for the prosecution and so far all I see is a judge who doesn't know what "Reasonable Doubt" means : /
> 
> It's been investigated and as far as I can tell there have been no modern cases of executed innocents (But it depends where you draw the year line, obviously a metric ton of innocent black men were executed in the south before the passing of the civil rights act and probably many more afterwards).
> 
> And personally I think obvious is a fair enough word when there's no physical evidence and 80% of the witnesses and a bunch of the jury have changed their mind.



You also see a Southern judicial system.  Might be speaking too much into it, but just saying.


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## Darth inVaders (Sep 20, 2011)

Rob said:


> They want someone to die because there's a chance that he's the guilty one, fuck them.



They don't want someone to die because "there's a chance", they've convinced themselves that Davis is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt - the pain and need for closure have  likely blinded them
edit: ninja'd



			
				The Pink Ninja said:
			
		

> It's been investigated and as far as I can tell there have been no modern cases of executed innocents


I've looked for information on whether it has been investigated and turned up nothing - do you have sources for this?


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## The Pink Ninja (Sep 20, 2011)

No sources, I just read it in a few places. But as an example, this guy has been in jail 20 years and hasn't been executed so anyone in the last 20 years would be guilty beyond all doubt and dead, proven innocent and let out of still be in the trial/appeal process.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Sep 20, 2011)

another ^ (use bro) dead in amerikka, wtf else is new


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 20, 2011)

Well in a related story the SCOTUS just stopped the execution of a guy in Texas.



vOv


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 20, 2011)

it really is a shame.


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## Shinigami Perv (Sep 20, 2011)

It's the voters of the southern states who are obsessed with executing people.

In the Republican debate when Brian Williams asked Ron Paul if we should let those people who need health insurance die, some in the crowd started shouting "yes" while others applauded. Rick Perry got huge applause for saying he supports execution and never doubts its application. Says it all, really.


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 20, 2011)

Red State Values!


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## Nemesis (Sep 20, 2011)

Republicans,  care about you from conception till birth after that it is FUCK YOU.

Though in all seriousness even if someone has to support the death penalty you can't claim that someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt when 80% of eye witnesses decided that their evidence they gave to the prosecution is wrong.  In every other western country that is automatic grounds for a retrial.

Also how the hell can anyone rely on eye witness testimony anyway for a court case. In any other situation it would be thrown out due to lack of evidence.  If i were a scientist looking for a discovery and i had people say "Yeah it's true i saw it." I would have to tell them to go get evidence cause eye witness testimony is not only lacking in proof it is also the most unreliable mode of evidence you can put forward.  

How can it be good enough for law when it is no where near good enough for anything else.


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## Inuhanyou (Sep 20, 2011)

These conservatives, always a pleasure


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## Mintaka (Sep 20, 2011)

As everyone has stated 80 percent of the people stated that they were pressured into saying this.

Why is there no retrial?


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## KnockxKnock (Sep 20, 2011)

Aaagh, the execution of a hundred guilty men doesn't justify the killing of a single innocent.


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## Mist Puppet (Sep 20, 2011)

What a terrible, terrible injustice.


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## Ruby Tuesday (Sep 20, 2011)

Rob said:


> They want someone to die because there's a chance that he's the guilty one, fuck them.



that's very unkind for someone with a fluttershy avvy


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## Griever (Sep 20, 2011)

This man should get a retrial, this is ridiculous.



Rob said:


> They want someone to die because there's a chance that he's the guilty one, fuck them.



No, not "fuck them" they lost their child, it's completely understandable how they would want someone to pay. as the saying goes; "blood can only be repayed in blood." Though if i where them, i'd want to make damn sure the man being killed was indeed the one who killed my son rather then there being even a small margin of doubt.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 20, 2011)

The governor can still halt it though.


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## Mist Puppet (Sep 20, 2011)

Ruby Tuesday said:


> that's very unkind for someone with a fluttershy avvy



Hypnotized by Discord


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## Nemesis (Sep 20, 2011)

Griever said:


> This man should get a retrial, this is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> No, not "fuck them" they lost their child, it's completely understandable how they would want someone to pay. as the saying goes; "blood can only be repayed in blood." Though if i where them, i'd want to make damn sure the man being killed was indeed the one who killed my son rather then there being even a small margin of doubt.



Yes they want someone to pay but they have not thought this through out logically.  If they really want justice they should have demanded a retrial the moment the witnesses started recanting their testimonies.  That way they could be sure they are not sending an innocent man to his death while the real murderer is walking free.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 20, 2011)

People should rise if they plan to keep on and force the governor to let him go.

Seriously, its the government fault, but also people should take responsibility I know it is easier said than done, but the reason why they do this shit is because they know they will get away with it. They government should be forced to pardon this man because we cant keep this mentality that he gets killed, people are angry for a couple of days and after that it is like nothing happened.


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## Rabbit and Rose (Sep 20, 2011)

I just found out this guy served 20 years for doing the same thing this other man did, and he only got 10 years. That is real bullshit.


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## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

Darth inVaders said:


> Dude, they are the family of the victim - they've latched all their blame onto the person they were told is guilty - *have some sympathy for their suffering too*



Sorry, but their suffering is not an excuse for them to ignore mountains of evidence, especially with a severe irreversible punishment like execution.

Fuck them.


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## PoinT_BlanK (Sep 21, 2011)

Seen this shit yesterday. Got me pissed off all day. This shit's not right.

Smh.



Nihonjin said:


> Sorry, but their suffering is not an excuse for them to ignore mountains of evidence, especially with a severe irreversible punishment like execution.
> 
> Fuck them.



Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Psycho (Sep 21, 2011)

hey, he dies today in a few hours


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## dr_shadow (Sep 21, 2011)

Countries that have the death penalty in red:



U.S is looking a little lonely within the western world on this map, no? In North America and Europe it's only them and Belarus that still have it in regular use. Even Russia (!) doesn't.


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## hammer (Sep 21, 2011)

to be fair china has healthcare I am tierd of that argument

so why exactly cant he get a re trial?


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## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

hammer said:


> to be fair china has healthcare I am tierd of that argument
> 
> so why exactly cant he get a re trial?



He's black and it's the South.


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## hammer (Sep 21, 2011)

orite                 .


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## Petes12 (Sep 21, 2011)

nuke georgia please. oh will a few innocents be caught in the blast with all the idiots? ohhh wellllll


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## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> nuke georgia please. oh will a few innocents be caught in the blast with all the idiots? ohhh wellllll



I'd rather not, thank you.


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## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

hammer said:


> So why exactly cant he get a re trial?



Because they obviously value the feeling of getting revenge (even if it's misplaced) over justice.


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## The Space Cowboy (Sep 21, 2011)

Mmm...I'll bite.

1) His defense attorneys fucked up by not having Redd Coles appear at his federal hearing.  Coles was a witness in the original case, and a the defense had a witness testify to hearing Coles confess to the killing.  

2)  Since Coles did not get to testify at the Federal Hearing--despite being related to the case, the Judge at the Federal hearing decided that this bit of exonerating "evidence" would be hearsay as it would implicate Coles in the murder without giving him a chance for rebuttal.  

3)  The State of Georgia argued that exculpatory evidence had been procedurally defaulted since it should have been introduced earlier, and this position was accepted by the judge in May 2004, who stated that as the "submitted affidavits are insufficient to raise doubts as to the constitutionality of the result at trial, there is no danger of a miscarriage of justice in declining to consider the claim."


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## Griever (Sep 21, 2011)

mr_shadow said:


> Countries that have the death penalty in red:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S is looking a little lonely within the western world on this map, no? In North America and Europe it's only them and Belarus that still have it in regular use. Even Russia (!) doesn't.



Doesn't matter to me, in the end what is the real difference between tossing someone in a cage for the rest of their life and killing them.... their life is over regardless, but i actually find the death penalty far more humane than life imprisonment. 

But it is something that should be handled with care, in this care it is clearly not. They probably just want to put an end to this hole thing, to hell if they're wrong.


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## CrazyMoronX (Sep 21, 2011)

:nelsonlaugh


Sucks to be this guy right now.


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## Nemesis (Sep 21, 2011)

Griever said:


> Doesn't matter to me, in the end what is the real difference between tossing someone in a cage for the rest of their life and killing them.... their life is over regardless, but i actually find the death penalty far more humane than life imprisonment.
> 
> But it is something that should be handled with care, in this care it is clearly not. They probably just want to put an end to this hole thing, to hell if they're wrong.




There is a major difference.  A wrongly convicted person can be released and given compensation for being in prison.   While a dead person will still be dead if found to be innocent at a later date.


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## Griever (Sep 21, 2011)

Nemesis said:


> There is a major difference.  A wrongly convicted person can be released and given compensation for being in prison.   While a dead person will still be dead if found to be innocent at a later date.



Which is why i said "handled with care" and not "kill everyone who get's a life sentence."

EDIT: but to be honest, if i where in that situation. i would have preferred to have been killed there, spending 20-30 years in prison or even longer for a crime i didn't commit, shit what kinda compensation could possibly make up for that?.


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## Summers (Sep 21, 2011)

I heard someone brought up the point that, if he was not on death row and got life instead people would probably never have figured this out.


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## Summers (Sep 21, 2011)

mr_shadow said:


> Countries that have the death penalty in red:
> 
> 
> 
> U.S is looking a little lonely within the western world on this map, no? In North America and Europe it's only them and Belarus that still have it in regular use. Even Russia (!) doesn't.



They dont got it in Russia? That cant be right.


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## Hi Im God (Sep 21, 2011)

Let me guess this guy is black?


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## perman07 (Sep 21, 2011)

Griever said:


> Which is why i said "handled with care" and not "kill everyone who get's a life sentence."
> 
> EDIT: but to be honest, if i where in that situation. i would have preferred to have been killed there, spending 20-30 years in prison or even longer for a crime i didn't commit, shit what kinda compensation could possibly make up for that?.


There's always suicide. If prison life sucks so badly, you can do that. I suspect I would rather live a sucky life than die though. Even prison could have it's bright points I suppose.

Death sentence removes that choice from you, and I would rather choose myself.


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## The Space Cowboy (Sep 21, 2011)

Hi Im God said:


> Let me guess this guy is black?



Yep, and just over half of his jury was too.


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## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

> *Polygraph for Troy Davis blocked, attorney says
> *
> 
> (CBS/AP)
> ...




Oh man, this is not looking good.

Don't know if he's guilty or innocent, but the appearance of blocking a polygraph is bad. If he were to pass, it would raise even more doubt.


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## xpeed (Sep 21, 2011)

Cases like these makes me puke at our Police Judicial systems.  Police Dept. will intimate witnesses to make false accusations, which can be a felon if found guilty of perjury.  Lazy cops will usually do that if they can't find any proof or evidence and just want a scapegoat for the crime.  Shame, another innocent put to death.  Hope the judge who denied clemency will rot in hell.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Sep 21, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Yep, and just over half of his jury was too.



if the eye witness testimony was coerced , what is the jury supposed to do?  i guess cause they are black they should know it was a bullshit case right?

i mean, i know this, but most people think sworn testimony by a witness is true.


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## dr_shadow (Sep 21, 2011)

summers said:


> They dont got it in Russia? That cant be right.



From Wiki:



> Capital punishment in Russia is currently under question, albeit legally allowed (with the only form of shooting). There exists both an implicit moratorium established by the President and an explicit one, established by the nation's highest court. Russia has not executed anyone since 1996, and the regulations of the Council of Europe prohibit it from doing so at any time in the future. However, the death penalty still remains codified.
> 
> In the recent years, former President Vladimir Putin numerously stated that Russia will retain its moratorium at least until 2010. In November 2009, the Constitutional Court of Russia extended the ban until the abolishment of death penalty.[1]


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## Saufsoldat (Sep 21, 2011)

I said it before, I'll say it again: Eyewitness testimony is one of the lowest forms of evidence and should be treated as such.


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## KidTony (Sep 21, 2011)

Darth inVaders said:


> Dude, they are the family of the victim - they've latched all their blame onto the person they were told is guilty - have some sympathy for their suffering too



Zero sympathy. ZERO. If the guy has even a slight chance of being innocent, then he should not be fucking killed untill his guilt is apparent with no resonable doubt. I don't give two fucks how the victim's family feels when a man who is possbily innocent is going to be killed.


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## Redshadow49 (Sep 21, 2011)

If anyone wants to help him break out of prison, now would be the time to do it!!!!!!!!


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 21, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Yep, and just over half of his jury was too.



They did and only could make a judgment based on the evidence and testimonies provided to them, which if you read the articles, have been revealed to be either questionable, faulty, and in the case of the witnesses, coerced.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Griever said:


> Which is why i said "handled with care" and not "kill everyone who get's a life sentence."
> 
> EDIT: but to be honest, if i where in that situation. i would have preferred to have been killed there, spending 20-30 years in prison or even longer for a crime i didn't commit, shit what kinda compensation could possibly make up for that?.



There was a guy who got 20 million for being wrongly convicted he was like 20 years in prison, look for the case.

Should this guy be seconds prior to his executtion be pardoned (hope he does) he will deserve this compensation and more plus liberty.

This isnt right, however you also have to consider that these compensations are way more than what they would earn in their lifetime. So while they lost a big deal of their time they will now be able to enjoy their life much more than what they would have if they had remained like nothing.

Of course guy could also have the business opportunity of his life or win the lottery in the time he was there. I am not saying it is right or that 20 million is worth 20 years of life, just trying to put things in perspective and say what while this guy already has his life fucked, the government at least must make sure that he spend the rest of his life very good.


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## GodOfAzure (Sep 21, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Yep, and just over half of his jury was too.



They were probably just white people in black face.


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## Psysalis (Sep 21, 2011)

Sad sad news 

I can see him being added to this list now



I hope they can save him


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 21, 2011)

Less than two hours...


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## Psysalis (Sep 21, 2011)

ohhh damn :/


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## Borel (Sep 21, 2011)

So wait... they're actually going to kill an innocent man? Fuck yeah...


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## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

Fuck them. They're really going to kill him.


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## Darth inVaders (Sep 21, 2011)

Nihonjin said:


> Sorry, but their suffering is not an excuse for them to ignore mountains of evidence, especially with a severe irreversible punishment like execution.
> 
> Fuck them.





KidTony said:


> Zero sympathy. ZERO. If the guy has even a slight chance of being innocent, then he should not be fucking killed untill his guilt is apparent with no resonable doubt. I don't give two fucks how the victim's family feels when a man who is possbily innocent is going to be killed.





Geeze, you guys act like the family is somehow responsible for this
But they're not responsible for the horrendous bullshit of a likely innocent man's execution, not at all. They're just bystanders blinded by their pain and need for justice - so take your frustrations on the f*ckterds responsible for Davis being where he is despite the massive overwhelming doubt about his guilt, the ones who are required to think rationally and logically about this: the judges and prosecutors

F*ck'n sh*t, there's only an hour and 10 minutes left for a miracle


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## Seto Kaiba (Sep 21, 2011)

Doesn't look like anything will change, by the time I'm back he will likely be dead.


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## Sunrider (Sep 21, 2011)

Darth inVaders said:


> Geeze, you guys act like the family is somehow responsible for this
> But they're not responsible for the horrendous bullshit of a likely innocent man's execution, not at all. They're just bystanders blinded by their pain and need for justice - so take your frustrations on the f*ckterds responsible for Davis being where he is despite the massive overwhelming doubt about his guilt, the ones who are required to think rationally and logically about this: the judges and prosecutors
> 
> F*ck'n sh*t, there's only an hour and 10 minutes left for a miracle


Troy Davis has a family too. His is about to suffer the grief of a son who is probably to be wrongly executed. Is the victim's family's bereavement somehow of greater value than Davis's family? 

Unless they've been living under a rock and completely ignorant of recent developments, there is not a single reason for the ignorant hatred directed at Davis. No amount of sadness at their tragic loss can justify their defense of potentially another, equally tragic loss. There is _no_ defense for their ignorance. Their anger at the killer is not and should not be even remotely the same as anger at Davis. 



Tell you what, if Davis dies, how about _his_ family, appropriately distraught, gets to say that the victim deserved to die. After all, they just lost family themselves, so it _must_ be okay for them to say what they want. 

Does that sound reasonable to you?


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## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 21, 2011)

It's bullshit like this that I'm against the death penalty.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

I wonder how many of those protesting this guy's execution were fine with Casey Anthony getting off Scot free.


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## Nemesis (Sep 21, 2011)

Prosecutors fucked up in that one.  They went for murder one when the evidence wasn't there and everyone know murder one wasn't going to stick.


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## Gallant (Sep 21, 2011)

Our justice system is failing again. Surprise surprise. I really do feel for this man and his family.


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## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Well...damn...not much else to say.


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## Patchouli (Sep 21, 2011)

*Troy Davis execution delayed while US supreme court considers stay*

_Execution of death row inmate delayed temporarily as US supreme court intervenes to consider whether to issue a stay_



> The execution of Troy Davis was delayed temporarily by the US supreme court on Wednesday night in a dramatic intervention just as he was due to be put to death by lethal injection.
> 
> The last-minute decision caused confusion outside the prison in Jackson, Georgia, where family, supporters and civil rights campaigners broke into celebration as they believed the court had granted Davis a stay of execution.
> 
> ...


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## Fan o Flight (Sep 21, 2011)

Petes12 said:


> nuke georgia please. oh will a few innocents be caught in the blast with all the idiots? ohhh wellllll



I hate a lot of people there too but I live here


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## Superstars (Sep 21, 2011)

Troy Davis...Get on your knees and start praying and repent to God Almighty through the Lord Jesus Christ!


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Well in a related story the SCOTUS just stopped the execution of a guy in Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> vOv



FUCKING CALLED IT

SUPREME COURT OF TROLLING


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## siyrean (Sep 21, 2011)

> "He has had ample time to prove his innocence," said MacPhail's widow, Joan MacPhail-Harris. "And he is not innocent."



someone needs to tell her it's his guilt that needs to be proven. Fuck em.


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## Dolohov27 (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Well in a related story the SCOTUS just stopped the execution of a guy in Texas.
> 
> 
> 
> vOv


 That wacsist.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

siyrean said:


> someone needs to tell her it's his guilt that needs to be proven. Fuck em.



But he's already been convicted, yes?


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## siyrean (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> But he's already been convicted, yes?



a conviction that has had enough doubt to produce numerous stays of execution.


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## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> But he's already been convicted, yes?



With completely unreliable evidence.



Superstars said:


> Troy Davis...Get on your knees and start praying and repent to God Almighty through the Lord Jesus Christ!



Get that shit out of here.

The whole reason he's in this mess is because the justice system failed to apply proper skepticism, don't understand how fucking unreliable eyewitnesses are and are now ignoring evidence that contradicts their beliefs.

Sound familiar Mr.Christian?


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## Nemesis (Sep 21, 2011)

Yes but any doubt in guild starts (or at least should) a retrial from scratch.  The moment 1 of the eyewitnesses recanted on their evidence he should have been retried.  And again after every other witness came forward to recant.

This guy has not had a fair trial, you can't even consider a trial to be fair and a guilty verdict even close to being solid when 80% of your evidence basically came out and said "Oh sorry I was wrong."


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

It's up to the courts to determine whether the trial was fair and if there's need for a retrial, and thus far they have decided not to grant a retrial.

Ergo, he is still guilty.


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## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

He isn't guilty because his conviction was based on blatantly false evidence, if you can even call it that. 

Dude is only guilty of being a black man in America.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Super Goob said:


> He isn't guilty because his conviction was based on blatantly false evidence, if you can even call it that.



That's not for you to decide.



> Dude's guilty of being a black man in America.



Hurr durr.


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## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> It's up to the courts to determine whether the trial was fair and if there's need for a retrial.



Doesn't mean they can't be wrong, which they _clearly_ are in this case.



> Ergo, he is still guilty.



So if someone falsely accuses you of something and you're sent to prison, you're guilty of the crime?

You and I have different definitions of guilty.




First Tsurugi said:


> That's not for you to decide.



Authoritarian?


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## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

I didn't decide it. Just the majority of the jury who said they didn't tell the truth did. There's a reasonable doubt so he should not be executed. He should get a retrial.


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## iander (Sep 21, 2011)

It is likely that he has already been strapped on the gurney for the last hour and a half or so with an IV and possibly with a sedative.  Crazy to think about whats happening in the prison right now.

Whether he is guilty or not, with the evidence at hand, he deserves a new trial.  I am a firm opponent of the death penalty in general but this seems to be an especially egregious case.


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## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Nihonjin said:


> Doesn't mean they can't be wrong, which they _clearly_ are in this case.



Evidently not, unless the Supreme Court disagrees.



> So if someone falsely accuses you of something and you're sent to prison, you're guilty of the crime?



From a strictly legal perspective yes.

What actually happened is irrelevant, all that practically matters is what can be proven.



> You and I have different definitions of guilty.



The definition the courts use is the only one that matters.



> Authoritarian?



If accepting the authority of the courts over the opinions of random unqualified individuals makes me an authoritarian.


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## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

Can't even imagine strapping someone down and injecting drugs to kill them. Who would even do a job like that? 

Hopefully the SC can save him.


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## Toroxus (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Evidently not, unless the Supreme Court disagrees.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

I can post image macros too.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> From a strictly legal perspective yes.
> 
> What actually happened is irrelevant, all that practically matters is what can be proven.



And what about when that "proof" is recanted or rendered highly questionable like in this case?


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> And what about when that "proof" is recanted or rendered highly questionable like in this case?



Then it falls to the courts to decide whether that is grounds for a dismissal or retrial or whatever.

In this case they decided that there was not sufficient reason for such action.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 21, 2011)

I like how the black man is accused of murder especially when there's no evidence against him other than word of mouth, and yet someone like Casey Anthony can get away with murdering her own infant child. 

God Bless America


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 21, 2011)

Its a pretty shitty system.  Once you're convicted it falls on you to prove the negative of "I didn't do it" to avoid being killed.

In principle I'm a big supporter of the death penalty but cases like this exemplify everything that is wrong with it and our system.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 21, 2011)

Especially when there's no proof that he did the deed other than several witnesses claiming that he did it, and nothing more. Which is basically the same with cases on subjects such as internet piracy, letting big businesses sue thousands of people just to scare them into paying settlement money, and with no real evidence that someone did what they have claimed them to have done. 

Corrupt system is corrupt


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Its a pretty shitty system.  Once you're convicted it falls on you to prove the negative of "I didn't do it" to avoid being killed.
> 
> In principle I'm a big supporter of the death penalty but cases like this exemplify everything that is wrong with it and our system.



What's wrong with being considered guilty once you are "proven guilty"?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> What's wrong with being considered guilty once you are "proven guilty"?



Suppose every single piece of evidence that proved your guilt was completely discredited or recanted.  That doesn't PROVE that you didn't do it, there just isn't any proof that you didn't do it.

That's what's wrong with it.  If the proof that you were guilty is shown to have been unreliable that alone should have an effect on your status.


----------



## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Evidently not, unless the Supreme Court disagrees.







> From a strictly legal perspective yes.







> What actually happened is irrelevant, all that practically matters is what can be proven.



Yes. And they did not prove he was guilty, which is why everybody except you and the other victims retarded family are so outraged.



> The definition the courts use is the only one that matters.
> 
> If accepting the authority of the courts over the opinions of random unqualified individuals makes me an authoritarian.



No, it doesn't.

Blindly accepting the authority of the courts is without considering the possibility that they might be wrong even though *there's a mountain of evidence to suggest that they in fact are wrong in this case,* is what makes you an authoritarian..


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Then it falls to the courts to decide whether that is grounds for a dismissal or retrial or whatever.
> 
> In this case they decided that there was not sufficient reason for such action.



Where the "evidence" is nothing but word of mouth? The trial should have beem dimissed immediatly when no other evidence but word of mouth could be brought.

I wonder if you were wrongly sentenced to death if you would go around saying "I am guilty because the courts say so".


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 21, 2011)

>Won't let his family testify
>Won't let him take a polygraph test
>Witnesses recant their statements against Davis
>Still sentenced to die


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Nihonjin said:


>



Concession accepted.



>



Concession accepted.



> Yes. And they did not prove he was guilty, which is why everybody except you and the other victims retarded family are so outraged.



No, he was proven guilty, then some of the evidence that was used to convict him was discredited.

BUT the courts decided that this was not reason enough to overturn his sentence.

SO he is still guilty.

This all has nothing to do with whether he actually did commit the crime.



> No, it doesn't.
> 
> Blindly accepting the authority of the courts is without considering the possibility that they might be wrong even though *there's a mountain of evidence to suggest that they in fact are wrong in this case,* is what makes you an authoritarian..



When given the choice between those well versed in the legal system who are familiar with the case and those who are barely informed about the case and have little to no background in legal policy I will trust the judgments of the former over the latter every time.

If that makes me an authoritarian than I fear there are many more authoritarians around than I would have guessed.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 21, 2011)

Care to address my last post directed at you?



First Tsurugi said:


> No, he was proven guilty, then some of the evidence that was used to convict him was discredited.



If the evidence that "proved" something is discredited or rescinded then you didn't _prove_ shit.

The legal system, especially in the case of executions should _always_ err on the side of innocence.  You should never have to prove a negative to keep your life.


----------



## αce (Sep 21, 2011)

Cooper man reporting on this.
If the man dies, I don't know what to say


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Sep 21, 2011)

I like how he's still guilty especially when the the majority of evidence and claims against him have now been taken with a grain of salt

dot dot fucking dot


----------



## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> -snip-





Talk to Tsukiyomi, he seems to be in the mood for this.
Not going to waste my braincells on you any longer.


----------



## iander (Sep 21, 2011)

Well hes a dead man now.  Court refused a stay.  This is quite disturbing.  I hope people reflect hard on the death penalty after shit like this.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> Suppose every single piece of evidence that proved your guilt was completely discredited or recanted.  That doesn't PROVE that you didn't do it, there just isn't any proof that you didn't do it.
> 
> That's what's wrong with it.  If the proof that you were guilty is shown to have been unreliable that alone should have an effect on your status.





Tsukiyomi said:


> Care to address my last post directed at you?
> 
> If the evidence that "proved" something is discredited or rescinded then you didn't _prove_ shit.
> 
> The legal system, especially in the case of executions should _always_ err on the side of innocence.  You should never have to prove a negative to keep your life.



Evidently the evidence that was invalidated was not the evidence that "proved" he was guilty, since the courts rejected the appeals in spite of it.

Ergo, he is still guilty despite the recanted testimony.

Personally I think he deserves a retrial at the very least, but I admit that I am in no way qualified to make such a decision.

*tl;dr:* Here's how it is:

*Me:* He was already convicted

*Them:* But the evidence was shoddy

*Me:* But the courts decided that didn't matter

*Them:* But I disagree

*Me:* But your opinion doesn't matter


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

None of the justices dissented. He will die.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> None of the justices dissented. He will die.



Woah, not a single one of them?

I really did not expect that.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Fuck death penalty! I was sightly against it before this, now I am totally against it. This is just!!!!!

Sorry if it I am overreacting but this is so wrong on many levels. HOW CAN SOMEONE BE CONVICTED OVER WORD OF MOUTH?! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!

I am just hoping they are stalling this because the governor will make an "heroic" entrance saving him the last momment.

Seriously SO many powers against releasing the man where he is clearly innocent?! There must be something else beyond all this...... call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but this is ridiculous and I cant think of anything else that makes the government so fucking set on killing this guy.


----------



## Toreno (Sep 21, 2011)

Casey Anthony got set free because lack of sufficient evidence...


----------



## Deleted member 183504 (Sep 21, 2011)

live stream



news of stay of execution denial


----------



## Nihonjin (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Evidently the evidence that was invalidated was *not the evidence that "proved" he was guilty*, since the courts rejected the appeals in spite of it.



There was no evidence, just people saying "He did it" and the majority retracted their statements.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Sep 21, 2011)

iander said:


> Well hes a dead man now.  Court refused a stay.  This is quite disturbing.  I hope people reflect hard on the death penalty after shit like this.





Shinigami Perv said:


> None of the justices dissented. He will die.



Fucking Bullshit

I was going to respond to Sunrider turning my argument into a strawman, or First Tsurugi licking government ass, but this news just fucking killed all motivation

This is a travesty of justice, my heart goes out to Davis and his family


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

And you know what is the worst part? That in a week everyone will forget about it, the governor should pay if he doesnt pardon him, the judges and everyone involved in the killing. Becuase this is it, a killing.

Why so much denial in letting him go? What is there to hide US?


----------



## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

So                  sad.

This is inhumane.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Tear the prison appart and free him by force, if the representatives of the people wont let him go then let the people do the job.


----------



## Toroxus (Sep 21, 2011)

Kind of creepy knowing that right now, a most-likely-innocent man is laying down on his death bed to be killed by my tax dollars. 

It's 11:05pm in Georgia.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

Super Goob said:


> This is inhumane.



This is the US. Humanity? 

Obama and the Georgia governor wouldn't even consider commuting the sentence due to the shitstorm it would cause in the South by NOT wanting to kill someone. He must die for politics.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Where is the governor, where is the fucking president? This better be a stall to allow them make a heroic appearance.

Troy must be released immediatly and compensated.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> This is the *US. Humanity*?



You broke the laws of physics, it is impossible for these 2 words to appear together in 1 sentence.


----------



## Patchouli (Sep 21, 2011)

Currently being executed.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

The Supreme Court denied the request, why? Because they fucking know that if they retrail him, he will win and the state of georgia will be forced to pay him a well deserved compensation.


----------



## Zhariel (Sep 21, 2011)

It's enough to make me genuinely rethink my thoughts on the death penalty


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Ms. T said:


> Currently being executed.


----------



## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

R.I.P. Troy Daivs

Time of death: 11:08 EST.


----------



## Patchouli (Sep 21, 2011)

Just announced that he's dead.


----------



## Deleted member 183504 (Sep 21, 2011)

Time of death - 11:08pm EST


----------



## Mintaka (Sep 21, 2011)

How wonderful.  A likely innocent gets killed while the real killer gets off.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 21, 2011)

For that part of the country to be claiming that it is part of the "Bible Belt" of the US.....this is VERY sad!



And WTF?  None of the liberal judges even dissented this !


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

RIP- another victim of this shitty death penalty. 



Orochibuto said:


> The Supreme Court denied the request, why? Because they fucking know that if they retrail him, he will win and the state of georgia will be forced to pay him a well deserved compensation.



The SC has to follow the law. My guess is that there is nothing unconstitutional about the way this happened. 

If it were up to them to legislate, my guess is that the nobler justices like Ginsburg would love nothing more than to stop this. But they are bound to their oaths.

The problem is that our country set up a system where this could happen. The Georgia governor and Obama are supposed to be the last line of defense against these types of situations, but the death penalty has become too popular to speak against. Americans want their death and they'll have it tonight.


----------



## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

You know, before this I was for the death penalty in certain situations. Now though, I just don't know, my entire opinion is different.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Sep 21, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> Where is the governor, where is the fucking president? This better be a stall to allow them make a heroic appearance.
> 
> Troy must be released immediatly and compensated.



This is legally considered a state crime and therefore legally a state matter, federal govt has no power in state matters - Obama can't do shit in this situation

The governor is also powerless, Georgia's constitution gives all power to the Board of Pardons and Paroles

source:


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Sigh...what was meant to be a system of condemning the worst of criminals instead gets used upon a dubious case.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 21, 2011)

Sadly, the media will quickly forget about this and Obama will not publicly condemn this until after the re-election (if he wins) because a majority of Americans actually support the death penalty......Very sad.


I would like to hope that after this: it will make Americans rethink about the death penalty....but that is a very low chance.....Americans tend to worry only about themselves instead of actually caring about justice!


----------



## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

For a lot of people it's only injustice if it is affecting them directly.


----------



## Zhariel (Sep 21, 2011)

Super Goob said:


> You know, before this I was for the death penalty in certain situations. Now though, I just don't know, my entire opinion is different.



Exactly, I'm with ya. If this is an example of our courts being positive that someone is guilty, then it scares me.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> RIP- another victim of this shitty death penalty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Honestly fuck their Oaths. The man is innocent, he should be freed. If I am the one responsible for this I am letting this guy go, regardless of what a stupid rulebook tell me to do.

I mean killing someone, hell even jailing someone over nothing but WORD OF MOUTH?! What is this shit honestly? No evidence, no punishment this is how it should be. Even if no one recanted their statement, he should have been freed because of ZERO evidence.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Sep 21, 2011)

Kind of sad when a guy can get executed because of circumstantial evidence.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

They say the devil went down to georgia, had no idea that he is while there ruling the justice system too.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> Honestly fuck their Oaths. The man is innocent, he should be freed. If I am the one responsible for this I am letting this guy go, regardless of what a stupid rulebook tell me to do.
> 
> I mean killing someone, hell even jailing someone over nothing but WORD OF MOUTH?! What is this shit honestly? No evidence, no punishment this is how it should be. Even if no one recanted their statement, he should have been freed because of ZERO evidence.



At the very least, the governor should have delayed it indefinitely. 

The SC should never have brought the death penalty back. It was one of those moments when the judgement of the court let down the nation. The moment it's out of the courts, it becomes political, a states' rights issue, a massive clusterfuck for anyone who dare suggest that people shouldn't be executed.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Thing is Obama could technically say something, but there's already enough pressure on him with everyone harping the rights of states that it'd likely have him shoot himself in the foot.  I know, sounds morally wrong to be silent, but you have to understand although he's POTUS he's still in a tough spot.

But this...we needed a retrial.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

> InjusticeFacts Injustice Facts
> Troy Davis was brutally tortured for 4 hours by being left strapped to the execution chair while supreme court judges wrote a 1 page letter.
> 43 minutes ago


----------



## Redshadow49 (Sep 21, 2011)

this is just sad...just sad


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> It's being reported that he was kept strapped to the chair for 3 hours before he was executed. The British tabloids are calling it "mental torture."



I'm going to stay my hand on that until confirmation.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Mael said:


> Thing is Obama could technically say something, but there's already enough pressure on him with everyone harping the rights of states that it'd likely have him shoot himself in the foot.  I know, sounds morally wrong to be silent, but you have to understand although he's POTUS he's still in a tough spot.
> 
> But this...we needed a retrial.



Pressure or not I would have done it, even if it meant losing the re-election. If I lose I know I save a man, and I just get kicked out of an office. Is the life of a fucking person..... seriously.

The state of georgia should be held accountable for this and at least pay a VERY big compensation for the family of Troy. Shame on the family of the police too, instead of asking for justice and the REAL killer to be brought to justice, they went bloodlusted because they wanted someone dead, even if innocent.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

His last words, according to The Guardian



> TroyDavis last words to family of murdered policeman "I was not the one who did it. I did not have a gun. Look deeper to find the truth"


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Today an innocent man died in Georgia.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Sep 21, 2011)

A telling quote by US Supreme Court Justice Scalia in his dissent to granting Troy Davis a chance to challenge his conviction back in 2009...



> "This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is 'actually' innocent."


source: 

Fuck you Scalia, Fuck you Spencer Lawton, Fuck you to every prosecutor and every judge responsible for this travesty


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> *Pressure or not I would have done it, even if it meant losing the re-election.* If I lose I know I save a man, and I just get kicked out of an office. Is the life of a fucking person..... seriously.
> 
> The state of georgia should be held accountable for this and at least pay a VERY big compensation for the family of Troy. Shame on the family of the police too, instead of asking for justice and the REAL killer to be brought to justice, they went bloodlusted because they wanted someone dead, even if innocent.



GOP winning or re-election.

Yeah dude...sorry.  Welcome to Politics 101.

But you also need to understand the tenuous situation b/w federal and state authorities.


----------



## Darth inVaders (Sep 21, 2011)

Why do so many posters keep saying Obama should have done something?

Read my previous post:


Darth inVaders said:


> This is legally considered a *state crime* and therefore legally a state matter, *federal govt has no power in state matters* - *Obama can't do shit* in this situation
> 
> The governor is also powerless, Georgia's constitution gives all power to the Board of Pardons and Paroles
> 
> source:


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 21, 2011)

Darth inVaders said:


> Why do so many posters keep saying Obama should have done something?
> 
> Read my previous post:



If the guy really wanted it, he would have found a way, if not by direct authority by influence and power.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

Orochibuto I think you need to calm down a bit.


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> If the guy really wanted it, he would have found a way, if not by direct authority by influence and power.



No dude, you're not understanding the law:



> The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which has helped lead the charge to stop the execution, said it was considering asking President Barack Obama to intervene.
> 
> *Obama cannot grant Davis clemency for a state conviction. *





THE LAW.  Sucks but them's the breaks.  You have to deal.


----------



## Circe (Sep 21, 2011)

Jesus Christ.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 21, 2011)

Reaction from the most popular conservative website, Free Republic





> One less Obama voter.





> Too bad they didn’t zap him with 66,000 volts instead.





> Good. One less waste of oxygen.






> No no no.
> 
> This IS justice.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mikaveli (Sep 21, 2011)

Those can't be serious posts.


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Sep 21, 2011)

Seto Kaiba said:


> They did and only could make a judgment based on the evidence and testimonies provided to them, which if you read the articles, have been revealed to be either questionable, faulty, and in the case of the witnesses, coerced.



I went and read the Wikipedia article on the case, including the part about what happened in his Federal appeals.   Most of the witnesses related to his case were found to have been reliable, and most of the recantations were adjudicated suspect.

This is like what would have happened in the Casey Anthony case if the Defense had not done their job well.  

Although the standard of evidence used may seem strange to us now, that's probably because we're conditioned to expect a higher level of evidence than the convicting court did in 1991.

The core problem here doesn't seem to be the existence of the death penalty but that the criminal defense attorneys who defend the common man, aren't nearly as good as the district attorneys that prosecute them.  In an adversarial system that guarantees legal representation, this seems like an endemic problem


----------



## Mael (Sep 21, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Reaction from the most popular conservative website, Free Republic



Feh...it's not like it's any different than Amren or Stormfront.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 21, 2011)

The core problem, as it was with the Anthony case, is that people only know what the media has reported and emphasized about the case.


----------



## iander (Sep 21, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> The core problem, as it was with the Anthony case, is that people only know what the media has reported and emphasized about the case.



All you have done is repeat an appeal to authority fallacy.  If you have an argument to make then make it.  Don't try to convince people that they are wrong because "experts" know better than all of us.

If you think there is something that they don't know about the case that is important than say so.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 22, 2011)

iander said:


> If you think there is something that they don't know about the case that is important than say so.



Who is they, the courts?

Because I think the courts know a lot more about the case than the average poster on the Internet.


----------



## Superstars (Sep 22, 2011)

Nihonjin said:


> Get that shit out of here.
> 
> The whole reason he's in this mess is because the justice system failed to apply proper skepticism, don't understand how fucking unreliable eyewitnesses are and are now ignoring evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
> 
> Sound familiar Mr.Christian?



Sounds very atheist...Believing theories of MEN, A fool's game.

Troy Davis may the Lord have mercy on your soul!


----------



## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Superstars said:


> Sounds very atheist...Believing theories of MEN, A fool's game.
> 
> Troy Davis may the Lord have mercy on your soul!



Boring.  Take the evangelical crap elsewhere please.


----------



## iander (Sep 22, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Who is they, the courts?
> 
> Because I think the courts know a lot more about the case than the average poster on the Internet.



No, by "they" i meant people arguing with you in this thread.  If you think, there is something your opponents in this thread should know about the case, then say it.  Don't just appeal to authority.

George Bush knew more than most of the country about intelligence on Iraq and yet I would say his decision to go ahead with the Iraq War was not right.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Reaction from the most popular conservative website, Free Republic



Are these post serious?


----------



## Elim Rawne (Sep 22, 2011)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Reaction from the most popular conservative website, Free Republic



Are you sure that wasn't stormfront ?


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> I went and read the Wikipedia article on the case, including the part about what happened in his Federal appeals.   Most of the witnesses related to his case were found to have been reliable, and most of the recantations were adjudicated suspect.
> 
> This is like what would have happened in the Casey Anthony case if the Defense had not done their job well.
> 
> ...



And because you can base an entire trial on nothing but word of mouth


----------



## First Tsurugi (Sep 22, 2011)

iander said:


> No, by "they" i meant people arguing with you in this thread.  If you think, there is something your opponents in this thread should know about the case, then say it.  Don't just appeal to authority.
> 
> George Bush knew more than most of the country about intelligence on Iraq and yet I would say his decision to go ahead with the Iraq War was not right.



I'd rather not get into to another protracted debate especially about this case, but how about what TSC posted a page ago?



Orochibuto said:


> And because you can base an entire trial on nothing but word of mouth



As if you basing your judgement of the case on what you've read on the Internet is somehow more reliable.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Sep 22, 2011)

Elim Rawne said:


> Are you sure that wasn't stormfront ?



Would be great if these people were fringe elements in this country like the Stormfront crowd. Unfortunately...



Some of the most popular conservative talk show hosts have accounts here.


----------



## Superstars (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Boring.  Take the evangelical crap elsewhere please.



Evangelical? No, this is real life son. Anyone could die anytime, so prepare yourselves.


----------



## KFC (Sep 22, 2011)

As much as I hate to have to say it, as I read the first article on this topic that came up and saw that a black man in Georgia is accused of killing a cop, I knew instantly that they weren't going to grant him anything.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> As if you basing your judgement of the case on what you've read on the Internet is somehow more reliable.



Is not just what I read, its the fucking case, the only "evidence" that was brought was word of mouth, nothing else. In short ZERO real evidence.

"Oh look so they SAID he killed him, so it is true!".


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Sep 22, 2011)

The Space Cowboy said:


> I went and read the Wikipedia article on the case, including the part about what happened in his Federal appeals.   Most of the witnesses related to his case were found to have been reliable, and most of the recantations were adjudicated suspect.
> 
> This is like what would have happened in the Casey Anthony case if the Defense had not done their job well.
> 
> ...



It's already been established the judges refused to take any of the revelations about the trial into account, particularly the most damning part of there being no physical evidence of Davis' involvement. Especially for a case in which the death penalty is a possible conviction, one would figure that kind of evidence would be mandatory, even 20 years ago. I was almost certain that testimonies simply weren't enough in such trials where the death penalty is involved.

There _have_ been prisoners let off from death row due to evidence (such as DNA, fingerprints, etc.) revealing their innocence, or at least, lack of involvement in the crime they were convicted of capital punishment for, recants by witnesses that occurred after their trial, from cases as far back as the 1970s! I don't see how lower standards 20 years ago would be a valid excuse at all.


----------



## thunderbear (Sep 22, 2011)

Mael said:


> Boring.  Take the evangelical crap elsewhere please.



Let me present to a scenario: You are sitting in the middle of an empty road, and somebody runs up to you yelling: "Move out of the way! A Truck is coming!"
However, instead of believing him, you become angry at him, insisting that there is no such truck coming.  But this man truly believes with all of his heart that a truck is about to hit you.  

Now a question:  If one truly believes a truck is about to hit and kill you, how much would he have to HATE you to NOT warn you about it?


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Sep 22, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Evidently the evidence that was invalidated was not the evidence that "proved" he was guilty, since the courts rejected the appeals in spite of it.



You do realize that the evidence could ABSOLUTELY prove that he was innocent and the court can just choose to say "nope, I don't care" right?  Just because the court rejected it doesn't mean it didn't prove his innocence.

And again a system that makes you PROVE your innocence or it kills you is a horrible horrible system.



First Tsurugi said:


> Ergo, he is still guilty despite the recanted testimony.
> 
> Personally I think he deserves a retrial at the very least, but I admit that I am in no way qualified to make such a decision.



In no way qualified to make such a decision?  Why exactly aren't we qualified to look at evidence and say "wow, there is clearly cause to look at this again"?



First Tsurugi said:


> *tl;dr:* Here's how it is:
> 
> *Me:* He was already convicted
> 
> ...



Here is what I don't think you understand.  We're attacking the system, saying that the system sucks that its broken and it needs to be fixed.  You repeating over and over again "well thats how it works" or "the courts decided that" means NOTHING when we're attacking the system.


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## Jin-E (Sep 22, 2011)

It was a laughable mockery of justice to condemn him to death with zero physical proof. Unless there is undeniable DNA evidence, all supposed murderers should be given life.


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## Rima (Sep 22, 2011)

R.I.P

Can't really say much about it now. What's done is done. Time to move on.


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## zuul (Sep 22, 2011)

Texas justice is such an horrible thing. I hope they are ashamed of it.

Thank to that state, the USA can compete with China, northe Korea and Saudi Arabia in the number of executions category.


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## Saufsoldat (Sep 22, 2011)

Well, that's just depressing. To think something like that could happen in a first world country, just plain sad.


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## Circe (Sep 22, 2011)

zuul said:


> Texas justice is such an horrible thing. I hope they are ashamed of it.


Wait, what? Georgia was responsible for this one, not Texas.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Sep 22, 2011)

i didn't realize the surname of the murdered cop is mcfail


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## Saufsoldat (Sep 22, 2011)

Whoever said they have sympathy for the MacPhail's family, his mother said this:



> "I will grieve for the Davis family because now they're going to understand our pain and our hurt," she said in a telephone interview from Jackson. "My prayers go out to them. I have been praying for them all these years. And I pray there will be some peace along the way for them."



What a disgusting bitch, truly the epitome of human depravity.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

As a supporter of the Death Penalty, I can't help but be disgusted by this. There was zero physical evidence. Zero DNA evidence. All of it was witness testimony...which alone, in any OTHER state than GA would have been thrown out.

Why does Georgia, Alabama, and Oklahoma have the worst legal systems in the entire US?


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## Nihonjin (Sep 22, 2011)

First Tsurugi said:


> Because I think the courts know a lot more about the case than the average poster on the Internet.



In Somalia, a 13 year old girl was sentenced to death by stoning for the horrible crime of _being raped_ by three men.

By your logic, who are we to say that stoning a little girl for being raped is wrong? Their courts are the experts after all, and they decided that there was sufficient reason to go through with this.

If you agree with the Somali courts - Then it should be clear you're an authoritarian of unprecedented levels

If you disagree with the Somali courts - Then it should be pretty clear that your reasoning in this case is flawed, unless you're a giant hypocrite


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## Punpun (Sep 22, 2011)

Actually no nihonjin. There is a big theory in Law that states that the Law made by a State is the only authority necessary. So while personally you can be against this Law, you can argue Somalia was right in the handling of their case.


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## Nihonjin (Sep 22, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Actually no nihonjin. There is a big theory in Law that states that the Law made by a State is the only authority necessary. So while personally you can be against this Law, you can argue Somalia was right in the handling of their case.



You missed my point entirely.


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## Punpun (Sep 22, 2011)

How so ? You said we couldn't say Somalia was right else we'd be some kind of monster. Which is wrong as I showed you.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey, I'm curious...if the USA system is to be called a bad joke, what are the places were even having an accusation randomly levied against means you're convicted regardless of later evidence called?  It's a trick question....


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## Nihonjin (Sep 22, 2011)

Punpun said:


> How so ? You said we couldn't say Somalia was right else we'd be some kind of monster. *Which is wrong as I showed you.*



You didn't show anything, you just cited the law.

So you agree with First Tsurugi, that it doesn't matter what the courts decide, they are by definition _always_ right?


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## Casyle (Sep 22, 2011)

Rob said:


> Oh so because they're related to the victim they know who's guilty? Fuck them.





> They want someone to die because there's a chance that he's the guilty one, fuck them.



Unfortunately I have to agree with the general idea. I was actually talking about this with my family the other day. I don't watch a lot of TV, but when I do one of my favorite channels is 285, which, if I remember correctly, is Investigation Discovery. Now, one thing I've noticed is that, like pit-bulls, once the police point the finger at someone as the killer the families lock on to that person and no amount of evidence will convince them that they're not guilty. The real killer could turn himself in and provide police with the murder weapon, how he did it, et cetera and the family of the victim will still think the first one accused is guilty. 

That's not every single family, but it does seem to be most. I rarely see a family actually change their minds about someone being guilty. 

As to our legal system, I lost respect for it years ago for various reasons, including experiences we've had with it. When I was a kid I remember reading about some defense lawyers who only took clients that they believed were innocent. Nowadays it really seems like defense lawyers don't care if their client is guilty, all they care about is winning, and prosecuters don't care if the accused is innocent, they just want to win/pin *Insert crime* on someone and look good.

It sounds like there's a lot of reasonable doubt now in this guy's case, and they really should review it.

I used to be a rock-hard death penalty supporter, but I'm not anymore, not when I grew up and realized our system seemed to be more about winning and looking good than about truth and justice.

I just wanted to add, I'm not implying that people who support the death penalty are children or anything like that. I meant it literally, I supported the death penalty until I was 16 or so, at which point I slowly started to turn against it.


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## Circe (Sep 22, 2011)

Casyle said:
			
		

> It sounds like there's a lot of reasonable doubt now in this guy's case, and they really should review it.


Too late, he's dead.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

If I leave Mexico to another country it will DEFINITIVELY not be to US I will go to Europe instead anyday. I dont want to live in constant fear of being sentenced on bullshit grounds.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

Jin-E said:


> It was a laughable mockery of justice to condemn him to death with zero physical proof. Unless there is undeniable DNA evidence, all supposed murderers should be given life.



Unless there is undeniable evidence all suppoded murderers should be freed, period.

Witnesses shouldnt be enough to even stand a trial on itself, witnesses are supposed to be to support the evidence not as the evidence itself. No evidence, no sentence.


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## Tsukiyomi (Sep 22, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Actually no nihonjin. There is a big theory in Law that states that the Law made by a State is the only authority necessary. So while personally you can be against this Law, you can argue Somalia was right in the handling of their case.



So no law in the history of humanity was _ever_ unjust or wrong?


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## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

So guess this mean exterminating all the jews, sick people and war enemies was right, after all it was the law.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> If I leave Mexico to another country it will DEFINITIVELY not be to US I will go to Europe instead anyday. I dont want to live in constant fear of being sentenced on bullshit grounds.


Just avoid the Deep South. The Northeast, the West, and the Midwest don't have such rampant stupidity.


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## Circe (Sep 22, 2011)

Punpun said:


> Actually no nihonjin. There is a big theory in Law that states that the Law made by a State is the only authority necessary. So while personally you can be against this Law, you can argue Somalia was right in the handling of their case.


Then you can argue for the morality of any law. If Parliament decided tomorrow to go on a ginger-hanging witchhunt, by your logic, they would be above criticism.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

What would happen Punpun if there was a law passed that ordered the police to specifically kill you and all your family?

I guess it would be above criticism right? Its the law.


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## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 22, 2011)

So glad Canada doesn't have the death penalty. Glad I also don't have a reason to ever go to the USA.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Scott Pilgrim said:


> So glad Canada doesn't have the death penalty. Glad I also don't have a reason to ever go to the USA.


_Not every state has the Death Penalty_, not only that, those that do? With the exception of Georgia of course, this little evidence that got Troy Davis killed wouldn't have been used at all. 

Can we stop with the bigotry against the US itself? Save it for Georgia.


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## Yachiru (Sep 22, 2011)

My condolences to Davis' family.. I really feel for them.

This is one of the reasons why I'm against the death penalty.


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## Mael (Sep 22, 2011)

Scott Pilgrim said:


> So glad Canada doesn't have the death penalty. Glad I also don't have a reason to ever go to the USA.



That's incredibly short-sighted.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

...was the ballistics evidence disproven? Since it was Troy's Gun that did the shooting.


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## Tsukiyomi (Sep 22, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...was the ballistics evidence disproven? Since it was Troy's Gun that did the shooting.



How do you know that?  No gun was ever recovered from the shooting.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

Tsukiyomi said:


> How do you know that?  No gun was ever recovered from the shooting.


Davis was in another shooting. All guns leave a 'finger print' on the bullets and shell casings, and those left at the site of this shooting matched the previous shooting's.


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## Scott Pilgrim (Sep 22, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> _Not every state has the Death Penalty_, not only that, those that do? With the exception of Georgia of course, this little evidence that got Troy Davis killed wouldn't have been used at all.
> 
> Can we stop with the bigotry against the US itself? Save it for Georgia.





Mael said:


> That's incredibly short-sighted.



I don't really hate the US. I've only been to USA once, and that was when I was like 8 to go to Disneyland. I can't make judgement myself unless I go there again, and every state is different. 

The reason I'm against the Death Penalty, isn't because I think it's wrong, but I think if even one potentially innocent person is ever put to death, it completely outweighs putting any murderous bastards who deserve to die to death.

I'd rather any number of guilty people get to live their lives in prison, than one innocent person getting their's cut short.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Sep 22, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Davis was in another shooting. All guns leave a 'finger print' on the bullets and shell casings, and those left at the site of this shooting matched the previous shooting's.



sounds like the CSI effect.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 22, 2011)

NarutoSimpsonUltimate said:


> sounds like the CSI effect.


Ballistics Testing proved that Davis' gun was used to shoot the cop.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 22, 2011)

Personal reminder for me:

"If you go in a vacation to the USA (like I have done 3 times) , NEVER visit Georgia".


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## siyrean (Sep 22, 2011)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Ballistics Testing proved that Davis' gun was used to shoot the cop.



wasn't the ballistics test one of the things that was being held in question?


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Sep 23, 2011)

I personally think the death penalty should be a very rare event, such as:

In cases where people have committed crimes against humanity or certain serial murder cases with hardcore, physical evidence......not with witness standings alone since they can be pretty faulty.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> _Not every state has the Death Penalty_, not only that, those that do? With the exception of Georgia of course, this little evidence that got Troy Davis killed wouldn't have been used at all.
> 
> Can we stop with the bigotry against the US itself? Save it for Georgia.



Yeah, but the federal government and the US Supreme Court still acknowledges it as a "way for justice" ......

And this just gives the US just another reason to have a bad rep in the world's view because it allowed this death to be carried out when the "evidence" against Davis proved to be faulty.....


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 23, 2011)

siyrean said:


> wasn't the ballistics test one of the things that was being held in question?


I'm not sure. That's why I was asking.


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## Draffut (Sep 23, 2011)

Darth inVaders said:


> None probably, nobody ever thinks of discrediting the death penalty system by actually proving innocent people have been killed - all resources are devoted to saving those innocents who are still alive (although that is kinda hard to argue against)



With the limited resources organizations like the Innocence Project have I would much rather them focus on saving the people still in jail, not those who are beyond help.

Though you can be certain that one day we will know for certain that our government murdered an innocent man, at which point we are all murderers. (all American's that is)


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## PoinT_BlanK (Sep 23, 2011)

A Judge weighs in:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogBdP6INHlE&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]



> ''It is criminal that this man was executed with so much doubt surrounding his case..And Georgia has blood on it's hands''


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## Nihonjin (Sep 23, 2011)

PoinT_BlanK said:


> A Judge weighs in:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogBdP6INHlE&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]



God dammit why did the judge have to be black..


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