# Warlord-Class Titan(WH40K) vs. CE Mechs



## Zoidberg (Sep 16, 2009)

Every major CE Mech goes up against a Warhammer Titan(Warlord Class). The battle is on Earth, and no one can go to space. The Titan's main armaments are an Inferno cannon, Powerfist and shoulder-mounted Volcano Cannons.


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## Sazabi24 (Sep 16, 2009)




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## skiboydoggy (Sep 16, 2009)

Titans are empowered by the Emprah so they're cheating.


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## Wesley (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't think that's to scale.


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 16, 2009)

Wesley said:


> I don't think that's to scale.


You see the mountains in the fore and background?


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## Wesley (Sep 16, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> You see the mountains in the fore and background?



Have you apologized yet?


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 16, 2009)

Wesley said:


> Have you apologized yet?


If you mean stopped laughing and moved on with my life, sure.


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## Sazabi24 (Sep 16, 2009)

Wesley said:


> I don't think that's to scale.



 THE TITAN CHEATS


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## Orion (Sep 16, 2009)

It almost looks like Dictatio has a "you for real?" look on his face lol.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 16, 2009)

Titan is bigger than SF? It's a cheater!!.


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## Wesley (Sep 16, 2009)

You guys are assholes.  

Anyway, from what I've read, Titan's don't really get over 150 meters in height.  So the picture is badly scaled.


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## Lina Inverse (Sep 16, 2009)

Aren't Warlord-class titans like 60-70 meters tall or something?

They're bigger than any mobile suit in CE; the closest to it's size are the Destroy and the Regenerate.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 16, 2009)

Firstly, Warlord Titans aren't actually bigger than mountains. Even Emperor Titans aren't. According to Lexicanum, the Emperor Titan, the largest class of Titans, is only 55.5 meters, or 166 feet tall. The Warlord Titan involved in this post is only 33 meters tall. Mahq lists the Freedom as 18.03 meters tall. So, the Warlord is only roughly 2x as tall as the Freedom, not gigantically bigger, like Gig posted. All my sources are here:

rising platform crap
rising platform crap


Secondly, since when is size the only deciding factor in a fight?

Gundams destroy battleships dozens of times their size all the time. 

Of course, those battleships don't have Void Shields on them.

Can Void Shields be walked through, the way an I-field can? Meaning, can a Gundam fly through the void shields and then shoot the bridge repeatedly?

If not, then CE will have to resort to WMDs. I haven't watched the series, so I'm not familiar with their particular set of WMDs, but UC and AC had plenty of weapons that could destroy a Warlord Titan, void shields and all. 

Also, I thought Titans, especially larger variants like the Warlord, are designed to fight other Titans. The Lexicanum lists the Warlord Titan as having point defense systems, but how accurate are they? Can they hit something as agile and mobile as a Gundam?

And one last thing: the OP stipulated that the Warlord is armed with a Power Fist. I don't know about you guys, but I'm betting this Power Fist will never hit any targets, given that Titans aren't exactly agile enough to catch a flying Gundam and smack it.


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## Lina Inverse (Sep 17, 2009)

^Are the void shields omnidirectional?


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## madcow3005 (Sep 17, 2009)

Testrun said:


> ^Are the void shields omnidirectional?



Yea that's another thing. If the shields were omnidirectional, how do the Titans walk? Wouldn't the shield constantly be degrading the ground under their feet?


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## madcow3005 (Sep 17, 2009)

What, none of the previous WH40k wankers want to post now that I've brought some reason to the thread?


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## Wesley (Sep 17, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> Yea that's another thing. If the shields were omnidirectional, how do the Titans walk? Wouldn't the shield constantly be degrading the ground under their feet?



They aren't, but the armor is too tough anyway.  A nuclear strike probably couldn't penetrate it.


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## Gig (Sep 17, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> What, none of the previous WH40k wankers want to post now that I've brought some reason to the thread?


The warlord Titan fires its Valcano cannon at Strike instantly incinerates it it then sweeps aside the fodder with its point defense Multi-Lasers. 

It has nothing to fear since its Void shields can handle Megaton level fire power which no CE Mecha can dish out and even its weakest weapons can rip though Necron Monolith Armour meaning nothing will survive even a hit from the Multi-Laser let alone the Turbo-Lasers or Volcano cannons


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## Wesley (Sep 17, 2009)

Gig said:


> The warlord Titan fires its Valcano cannon at Strike instantly incinerates it it then sweeps aside the fodder with its point defense Multi-Lasers.
> 
> It has nothing to fear since its Void shields can handle Megaton level fire power which no CE Mecha can dish out and even its weakest weapons can rip though Necron Monolith Armour meaning nothing will survive even a hit from the Multi-Laser let alone the Turbo-Lasers or Volcano cannons



Don't make me sic my Bolos on you.


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## Darklyre (Sep 17, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> What, none of the previous WH40k wankers want to post now that I've brought some reason to the thread?



Some of us have work/school.

And yes, the shields are omnidirectional. The reason they don't screw up the ground is because void shields don't block things moving at low velocities. You can technically get within the Titan's void shielding by walking through it. However, if you're in the shield when one of them turns on, you'll get sliced right in half. Void shields are strong enough that a Chaos Warlord was able to withstand a barrage by 12 Reavers and Warhounds, all of which were shooting building-buster weaponry. In Titanicus, fights between Reavers and Warhounds were ripping up entire city blocks.

Titan point defenses are made to fight things like Ork fighta-bommers, Space Marine Thunderhawks, and Marauders (IoM/Chaos bombers), Tau Skyrays, etc. Gundams are roughly the same size, and they're NOT more maneuverable than an equivalent Eldar/Dark Eldar machine.

Oh, and Titans can most definitely take an indirect WMD strike. During the Horus Heresy, the Deus Irae was caught on the surface of Istvaan III when Horus dropped the virus bombs and followed up with a lance strike. The ensuing firestorm literally cleaned the planetary surface of all organic matter. The Deus Irae survived with no permanent damage.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 17, 2009)

Gig said:


> The warlord Titan fires its Valcano cannon at Strike instantly incinerates it it then sweeps aside the fodder with its point defense Multi-Lasers.
> 
> It has nothing to fear since its Void shields can handle Megaton level fire power which no CE Mecha can dish out and even its weakest weapons can rip though Necron Monolith Armour meaning nothing will survive even a hit from the Multi-Laser let alone the Turbo-Lasers or Volcano cannons



And how accurate are Titan targetting systems? I thought in order to fight agile foes like Eldar, several Titans had to box off an area of space and saturate it with attacks? 

Even if you used this method, how do you propose it hit a Gundam, which can fly, while Eldar titans cannot?

And can void shields be walked through, or do they repel any and all matter and energy? What about near the legs where the titan walks? Could Gundams get through near the legs, then fly up to the bridge and pummel it with fire? I assume the bridge is less heavily armored, given that there is a clear section that are presumably viewing ports.

How accurate are the PDS on Warlords? What feats of targetting do they have?



Darklyre said:


> Some of us have work/school.
> 
> And yes, the shields are omnidirectional. The reason they don't screw up the ground is because void shields don't block things moving at low velocities. You can technically get within the Titan's void shielding by walking through it. However, if you're in the shield when one of them turns on, you'll get sliced right in half. Void shields are strong enough that a Chaos Warlord was able to withstand a barrage by 12 Reavers and Warhounds, all of which were shooting building-buster weaponry. In Titanicus, fights between Reavers and Warhounds were ripping up entire city blocks.
> 
> ...



It's been a day, plenty of time for responses. 

How many layers are there to a Warlord's void shields? How often are they rotated? I thought they only switched layers when the outer layer is pierced by attacks.

So if you can walk through void shields, how heavily armored is the weakest armor on a Warlord? Can it be damaged by combined attacks from several mobile suits that specifically target this area? If this area is disabled, will it hamper the Titan at all?

Again, how accurate are Titan targeting systems? Well, I guess I should be asking, how maneuverable are Thunderhawks and other WH40k aircraft? 

Gundams are the pinnacle of close/medium-range manuverability. The original Zaku was designed because a humanoid shape was favorable in maneuverability compared to a traditional aircraft. So, Gundams are arguably HARDER to hit than a fighter jet.

And I'm sure Warlords can take a few WMDs. The problem is, this is the entire world vs one titan, and the entire world probably has more than 1 WMD.


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 17, 2009)

Genesis and Requiem are not major CE mechs. WMDs have nothing to do with this unless CE started mass producing GP02s without my knowledge.


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## Lina Inverse (Sep 17, 2009)

As far as I remember, CE has no mech that similar to the GP02A that can fire nukes(well, mobile armors can if you can consider them a 'mech', but I can't remember if they can fly within the earth's atmosphere)


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## Darklyre (Sep 18, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> And how accurate are Titan targetting systems? I thought in order to fight agile foes like Eldar, several Titans had to box off an area of space and saturate it with attacks?
> 
> Even if you used this method, how do you propose it hit a Gundam, which can fly, while Eldar titans cannot?
> 
> ...



The "boxing off the Eldar" thing only applies in space, where the Imperial Navy cordons off a sector of space and bombards it with fire in order to catch Eldar warships. They do this because Eldar ships are not only ridiculously maneuverable but have holofields/shadowfields activated to throw off any sensor readings. On the ground, Titans are perfectly capable of hitting Eldar planes and walkers.

You can walk through the void shields anywhere, not just near the legs. Your idea of the bridge being less heavily armored is false, however. When a Princeps is plugged in, he literally uses the Titan's sensors for instead of his own. He can feel the Titan's armor as if it were his own skin, and the Titan's sensors work like his eyes and ears. The same is true for all Titan staff, including the moderati and station workers. Remember, Titan Legions belong to the Adeptus Mechanicus. These guys don't even bother with their regular senses and prefer their mechanical ones. The Titan crews are plugged straight into the Titan itself, and speak to each other in bursts of binary code. There wouldn't be any large viewports on a Titan's bridge.

The void shields themselves work via layers. You cannot damage all of a Titan's void shields at once. Instead, you have to take them down one at a time. Once one of them is down, the magos monitoring the shield station takes a few minutes to bring it back up. All Titans carry multiple shield layers, and I believe it was stated somewhere that Warlords can carry something like 12 layers.

And you do NOT want to get into a maneuverability or speed battle with 40K planes. Marauders can hit .75 lightspeed. Ork fighta-bommers are fully capable of going into orbit. Eldar/Dark Eldar planes carry sensor jammers and holofields and can pull turns that would literally crush a human crew to paste from the g-forces.

If you want to see how much damage is required to get through a Warlord Titan's armor, remember that it took 12 Reavers and Warhounds roughly 10 minutes of constant firing to actually kill a Warlord, and the Warlord still managed to kill 3-4 of the Reavers/Warhounds, AND the Reavers/Warhounds had to use old schematics of the enemy Titans to pinpoint void shield weaknesses and use a coordinated strike. The Reavers and Warhounds, earlier, were disintegrating factory buildings big enough for Titans to hide in with sheer firepower. If the Reavers/Warhounds had simply opened fire at random or on a regular section of the Warlord's void shields the Warlord would have laughed it off.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 18, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> The "boxing off the Eldar" thing only applies in space, where the Imperial Navy cordons off a sector of space and bombards it with fire in order to catch Eldar warships. They do this because Eldar ships are not only ridiculously maneuverable but have holofields/shadowfields activated to throw off any sensor readings. On the ground, Titans are perfectly capable of hitting Eldar planes and walkers.
> 
> You can walk through the void shields anywhere, not just near the legs. Your idea of the bridge being less heavily armored is false, however. When a Princeps is plugged in, he literally uses the Titan's sensors for instead of his own. He can feel the Titan's armor as if it were his own skin, and the Titan's sensors work like his eyes and ears. The same is true for all Titan staff, including the moderati and station workers. Remember, Titan Legions belong to the Adeptus Mechanicus. These guys don't even bother with their regular senses and prefer their mechanical ones. The Titan crews are plugged straight into the Titan itself, and speak to each other in bursts of binary code. There wouldn't be any large viewports on a Titan's bridge.
> 
> ...



I could have sworn that someone mentioned the boxing off tactic during ground warfare. I also could have sworn that Eldar Titans carry holofields like their spacecraft.

If the bridge doesn't have viewports on them, then what is the glass-like section on the Warlord's head made of? It obviously isn't the same armor as the rest of the Titan, so I assumed it would be weaker.

The Void Shields don't matter in this fight unless WMDs get involved. All the CE mechs put together probably couldn't bring down even the first shield layer, so it's effectively impenetrable. When I asked how many shield layers there were, it was in response to your comment that anyone walking through a void shield when a layer gets turned on would get sliced apart. I was asking whether the operators randomly cycle shield layers during combat, or whether they only do it when the first layer is depleted. Since the CE mechs would never deplete the first layer, logically the operators would never rotate shields, and slicing would never be a danger.

Mind showing me quotes about the feats for WH40k aircraft? I take the being able to get into orbit thing as a given, but the .75c feat seems fishy, given that combat in the atmosphere at those speeds would burn the plane apart. Time distortion would also be a huge factor. 

Again, you have to remember that in the Gundam universe, the mobile suit is the pinnacle of close-medium range aerial/space combat with emphasis on maneuverability. I need feats and quotes before I believe that WH40k planes can outmaneuver them. 

Are there any weak spots on a Warlord's armor that would make them vulnerable to Gundams that manage to get inside the Void Shields? 

Also, are there any blind spots on a Warlord where the PDS can't cover?

Lastly, how heavily are the *weapons* on a Warlord armored?


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## Coteaz (Sep 18, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> Are there any weak spots on a Warlord's armor that would make them vulnerable to Gundams that manage to get inside the Void Shields?


Let me put it like this:

In order to 'slip inside' the Warlord's void shields, a Gundam would need to be moving very, very slowly. In doing so, they would nullify their agility advantage and have no way to avoid any of the Warlord's fire (whether it be point multilasers or main cannons). 

Sorry, but the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) aren't winning this one.


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## Darklyre (Sep 18, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> I could have sworn that someone mentioned the boxing off tactic during ground warfare. I also could have sworn that Eldar Titans carry holofields like their spacecraft.
> 
> If the bridge doesn't have viewports on them, then what is the glass-like section on the Warlord's head made of? It obviously isn't the same armor as the rest of the Titan, so I assumed it would be weaker.
> 
> ...



Eldar Titans do have holofields, but they're only there for sensor jamming, and don't work for visual range. Plus, Eldar Titans don't move nearly as fast or as agile as an Eldar warship, so it's still possible to aim at one. In space, the odds of hitting an Eldar warship with holofields on using a direct-hit weapon is nigh-impossible. It's basically the difference between hitting a cockroach on the ground and a fly in the air. One is a LOT more maneuverable than the other.

You can't really "walk" through a void shield that easily. There's an instance where Space Marines on bikes were trying to attack a Gargant, and literally bounced off the void shields. They couldn't have been going more than 60-100 mph, so that right there cuts a Gundam's speed down drastically if it has to get through the void shields. The Marines actually had to stop completely and let the Gargant move towards them, and even then they could feel the "solidity" of the void shields. If a Gundam tried the same it'd just get obliterated for being an easy target.

There aren't many blind spots on a Titan. Titan PDS guns are manned by autonomic servitors, not the main Titan crew. If a Gundam manages to get past the main weaponry it still has to deal with the smaller PDS guns on all sides. Plus, Warlord Titans also carry a large complement of Tech Guard or Skitarii, and they carry heavy weapons for taking out armor. If they accompany the Titan, they can also serve as point defense.

Titan weapons are just as armored as anything else on the Titan. Unlike Battletech mechs, Titans cannot swap their weapons out. Because of this they get massive armor protection to prevent them from being disarmed.

There's a small correction for Marauders. They USED to go at .75c, but were replaced by the Fury and Starhawk in orbital fights and were relegated to atmospheric combat. In any case, they hit 1800 km/h at base atmosphere. Considering speed goes up as you go higher, and that Marauders are fully capable of swinging in and out of orbit at will, with accurate enough weaponry a Marauder could pop targets at speeds significantly higher than 1800 km/h.

The Lightning is capable of hitting 2400 km/h in base atmosphere, with a flight ceiling of 60 kilometers, twice as high as an F-22. Even they are completely outclassed by Eldar fighters like the Phoenix or the Nightwing, which hits 3600 km/h and can make turns that would rip any IoM plane apart if they tried.


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## LightMaster (Sep 18, 2009)

> Sorry, but the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) aren't winning this one.



This honestly wasn't required, not one bit. Not that you're fully aware of that, onto the topic at hand.

What kind of damage can these things put out, strongest gun? I don't need to know names, I need something in the scope of feats for this buggers. It's got to deal with a few Destroy's, and Regenerate, Blue Frame still carries around a Positron Blaster.

Bah, if these we're in space Lowe could whip out the 150m Gerbera Straight.


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## Darklyre (Sep 18, 2009)

LightMaster said:


> This honestly wasn't required, not one bit. Not that you're fully aware of that, onto the topic at hand.
> 
> What kind of damage can these things put out, strongest gun? I don't need to know names, I need something in the scope of feats for this buggers. It's got to deal with a few Destroy's, and Regenerate, Blue Frame still carries around a Positron Blaster.
> 
> Bah, if these we're in space Lowe could whip out the 150m Gerbera Straight.



Warlord Titan weaponry can obliterate city blocks and large factories with each shot.


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## Orion (Sep 18, 2009)

The rapid fire weapon of a warlord titan is a gatling blaster which is a 5 barrelled gatling gun that shoots 150mm armor piercing shells,A Volcano Cannon can and has one shoted other titans,even its shoulder mounted lasers shit all over your usual gundam beam cannons.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> Warlord Titan weaponry can obliterate city blocks and large factories with each shot.



So can Destroy's chest cannons, and well the back cannons are even more so then that. There's a few of those, Destroy's I mean; this isn't counting Blue Frame's Positron Cannon... how does the titan hold up against weapons of it's own level?



> The rapid fire weapon of a warlord titan is a gatling blaster which is a 5 barrelled gatling gun that shoots 150mm armor piercing shells



150mm shells aren't going to do a whole hell of a lot to anything with Phase Shift.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 19, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> Eldar Titans do have holofields, but they're only there for sensor jamming, and don't work for visual range. Plus, Eldar Titans don't move nearly as fast or as agile as an Eldar warship, so it's still possible to aim at one. In space, the odds of hitting an Eldar warship with holofields on using a direct-hit weapon is nigh-impossible. It's basically the difference between hitting a cockroach on the ground and a fly in the air. One is a LOT more maneuverable than the other.
> 
> You can't really "walk" through a void shield that easily. There's an instance where Space Marines on bikes were trying to attack a Gargant, and literally bounced off the void shields. They couldn't have been going more than 60-100 mph, so that right there cuts a Gundam's speed down drastically if it has to get through the void shields. The Marines actually had to stop completely and let the Gargant move towards them, and even then they could feel the "solidity" of the void shields. If a Gundam tried the same it'd just get obliterated for being an easy target.
> 
> ...



Hmm, that's odd, don't personal holofields carried by Eldar troops  (I believe it's the Harlequins?) visually disrupt people? That's odd that a Titan's holofield doesn't do the same. Regardless, the Eldar thing isn't part of the discussion, I was just curious.

About the Void Shields: You said that when the Space Marines tried to ride through the shields, they bounced off. What would happen to a Gundam that landed on top of the shields, above the Warlord? Would it eventually fall right through?

Anyway, even if the Gundams can't walk through Void Shields, wouldn't being that close disrupt the Warlord significantly? As in, if a Gundam is literally standing close to its feet, would the Volcano Cannon and Inferno Cannon still be usable, or would the close proximity mean that those weapons would also cause harm to the Titan itself if fired at the ground?

If the close proximity does indeed limit the Warlord to its PDS, then again, do the PDS have exploitable blind spots? You mentioned they don't have many, but are there a few that Gundams can exploit, and essentially remain untargettable? 

And about the Skitarii, how do these troops fire at targets around the Titan? Do they use gunports? If not, then how do they use their heavy weapons from inside the Titan?

The Marauder speed feats inside the atmosphere really aren't that impressive, considering that Gundams can swing in and out of the atmosphere at will as well. In space, the .75C definitely beats Gundam by a long shot, but in the atmosphere, where speed is significantly limited, it's not that impressive.

Also, raw speed isn't as important as maneuverability when you're trying to defeat a PDS system that consists of various different types of lasers. No matter how fast you go, if the Lascannon turret can track you, you're not outrunning that beam. However, if you're maneuverable enough that the tracking system can't pin you down, you might have a chance.

So the question is, how good are the turrets at tracking maneuverable targets? You said Eldar/Dark Eldar fighters pull extremely high G turns. Can the turrets still track them? Do they have difficulty tracking them, or is it simple for them?

Also, how powerful are the PDS turrets anyway? What feats can you give me regarding their damage output?



Coteaz said:


> Let me put it like this:
> 
> In order to 'slip inside' the Warlord's void shields, a Gundam would need to be moving very, very slowly. In doing so, they would nullify their agility advantage and have no way to avoid any of the Warlord's fire (whether it be point multilasers or main cannons).
> 
> Sorry, but the ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) aren't winning this one.



Nice to see that anti-CE bias is alive and well.


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## Orion (Sep 19, 2009)

LightMaster said:


> So can Destroy's chest cannons, and well the back cannons are even more so then that. There's a few of those, Destroy's I mean; this isn't counting Blue Frame's Positron Cannon... how does the titan hold up against weapons of it's own level?
> 
> 
> 
> 150mm shells aren't going to do a whole hell of a lot to anything with Phase Shift.



Considering those shells shred futuristic armor to pieces yes they would.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

Orion said:


> Considering those shells shred futuristic armor to pieces yes they would.



What does when it was made have to do with anything? Phase Shift is pretty futuristic in it's own right, you're going to have to give some feats for the armor it does penetrate or something before you go making such bold claims.


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 19, 2009)

LightMaster said:


> What does when it was made have to do with anything? Phase Shift is pretty futuristic in it's own right, you're going to have to give some feats for the armor it does penetrate or something before you go making such bold claims.


If an ASS thrust can pierce Phase Shift, you can bet your ass those shells are going straight through.


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## Zoidberg (Sep 19, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> About the Void Shields: You said that when the Space Marines tried to ride through the shields, they bounced off. What would happen to a Gundam that landed on top of the shields, above the Warlord? Would it eventually fall right through?
> 
> Anyway, even if the Gundams can't walk through Void Shields, wouldn't being that close disrupt the Warlord significantly? As in, if a Gundam is literally standing close to its feet, would the Volcano Cannon and Inferno Cannon still be usable, or would the close proximity mean that those weapons would also cause harm to the Titan itself if fired at the ground?



It's possible that they would bounce off as well, but I guess it depends on how many layers of void shields are left.

I doubt it, and even if they did the Titan would normally have weapons to counter enemies who get out of effective range, like multilasers. That of course presumes they'd survive to get close enough.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> If an ASS thrust can pierce Phase Shift, you can bet your ass those shells are going straight through.



Impulses Anti-Ship Sword had a Beam tip, not only that there's a big difference between the power of a charging 60+ ton mech and it's sword, and a 150mm shell.


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 19, 2009)

LightMaster said:


> Impulses Anti-Ship Sword had a Beam tip, not only that there's a big difference between the power of a charging 60+ ton mech and it's sword, and a 150mm shell.


I definitely don't recall a beam tip, but I'm pretty sure the 150mm shell can move exponentially faster than the 60 ton mech, and KE = MV^2. Velocity is way more important than mass.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

skiboydoggy said:


> I definitely don't recall a beam tip, but I'm pretty sure the 150mm shell can move exponentially faster than the 60 ton mech, and KE = MV^2. Velocity is way more important than mass.



It's there, I'd suggest finding the SE version on youtube to confirm if don't believe me. Maybe the shell can move faster, but once it hits it pretty much loses all it's velocity instantly, Impulse being what it is...can keep pushing.


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## Orion (Sep 19, 2009)

Whether it would pierce PS armor or not doesn't really matter since it still sports 4 giant laser cannons and a volcano cannon.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

Orion said:


> Whether it would pierce PS armor or not doesn't really matter since it still sports 4 giant laser cannons and a volcano cannon.



How strong are the laser cannons, because the Volcano Cannon seems to stack up with the Destroy's cannons, and no one has answered how well these Void Shields would work against something like that.


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## Orion (Sep 19, 2009)

Would have to re read the comics to remember and thats going to take awhile to find again,im sure one of the warhammer fans would be better suited to finding that.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 19, 2009)

The Volcano Cannons and Inferno Cannon is for targeting other Titans. I'm pretty sure they can't hit something as fast and agile as a Gundam.


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## Shock Therapy (Sep 19, 2009)

. what rape for warlord class titan.
princeps: moderati, 10 spread pattern if you please
moderati: yes princeps
LAWL


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## madcow3005 (Sep 19, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> . what rape for warlord class titan.
> princeps: moderati, 10 spread pattern if you please
> moderati: yes princeps
> LAWL



This is a debate thread, not a spam thread. Unless you have something constructive to say, get out.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> This is a debate thread, not a spam thread. Unless you have something constructive to say, get out.



Yes, a million times yes.


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## Orion (Sep 19, 2009)

Found a decent shot of what the laser cannons can do,blows an arm off of another warlord titanLink removedIll look for more later.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 19, 2009)

Orion said:


> Found a decent shot of what the laser cannons can do,blows an arm off of another warlord titanSasuke.Ill look for more later.



Was that the Volcano Cannon or the Inferno Cannon?

What was the status of the target's Void Shields?


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## Orion (Sep 19, 2009)

Thats just the Turbo lasers mounted on its shoulders,Volcano cannons one shot whole titans,and im not sure if the shields were up since it was being controlled by the tyranid.


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## Darklyre (Sep 19, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> Hmm, that's odd, don't personal holofields carried by Eldar troops  (I believe it's the Harlequins?) visually disrupt people? That's odd that a Titan's holofield doesn't do the same. Regardless, the Eldar thing isn't part of the discussion, I was just curious.
> 
> About the Void Shields: You said that when the Space Marines tried to ride through the shields, they bounced off. What would happen to a Gundam that landed on top of the shields, above the Warlord? Would it eventually fall right through?
> 
> ...



Harlequins have unique equipment. Their holofields and cloaking devices are much more advanced than regular Eldar tech, and is reinforced with psykery. You can't really compare their holofields to other Eldar ones.

If a Gundam tried to land on a Titan it'd just bounce right off. You can't actually "sit" on a void shield, since they repel energy. If it tried to obstruct the Titan by standing in its way the PDS can take care of it. PDS systems are used to take out Hellrazors and Marauders, which are comparable in size to Gundams (20 meters or so) with extremely thick armor. As long as the Gundam is still outside of the void shields, then the Titan can still use its weapons to take it out without any fear of self-damage, since its void shields can block its own weapons at that range.

AFAIK, there are no blind spots on a Titan. The shoulders and top of a Titan are studded with PDS guns, while the main chassis has PDS guns of its own. The legs have PDS weaponry and gunports for the Tech Guard/Skitarii. If nothing else, the Titan can simply unload its infantry and keep them within the protection of its void shielding.

Titans are still capable of tracking Eldar/Dark Eldar fighters, though they're obviously less successful at it than against Chaos fighters or Tyranid Gargoyles. Let's put it this way: current fighter jets can pull 9-10 Gs in a turn. The main limit is the pilot blacking/redding out. Eldar fighters can pull turns so tight that an IoM fighter would literally rip itself apart trying to match it, and the human pilots would not only black out, but would die of compression forces. We're talking waaaaay higher than 10 Gs, here.

As for how good a Titan's void shields are against the Volcano cannon, remember that Titans are made for slugfests with other walkers, so they can't be glass cannons. IoM tech is made for durability and endurance, and Titans can take multiple hits from other Titan weaponry (excluding, of course, Vortex weapons). Either way, considering a Titan packs multiple void shields, and that only one void shield can go down at a time, the Gundams will be hard-pressed to actually take them all down before the first one recharges.

As for the Titan's armor-piercing capabilities, remember that Titan weapons are made for taking out Titans, Leviathans, and Hive cities. There are fortresses in 40k with armored walls whose thicknesses measure in the tens of meters. Just imagine how thick a wall would have to be to support something as large as Hive city, and remember that Titan weapons can pierce through that.


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## LightMaster (Sep 19, 2009)

> The shoulders and top of a Titan are studded with PDS guns, while the main chassis has PDS guns of its own. The legs have PDS weaponry and gunports for the Tech Guard/Skitarii. If nothing else, the Titan can simply unload its infantry and keep them within the protection of its void shielding.



What ARE PDS guns anyhow, are they energy weapons or what? If they're standard slug throwers they're going to be fairly useless against the vast majority of units. What do the infantry usually carry...and is it nearly strong enough to be of any use against the Mobile Suit's deployed?



> Let's put it this way: current fighter jets can pull 9-10 Gs in a turn.



Mobile Suit's aren't used in the same way, evasion wise, as fighter craft. They don't require High-G turns, they're capable of quick lateral movement as opposed to the Jets and such.



> IoM tech is made for durability and endurance, and Titans can take multiple hits from other Titan weaponry (excluding, of course, Vortex weapons). Either way, considering a Titan packs multiple void shields, and that only one void shield can go down at a time, the Gundams will be hard-pressed to actually take them all down before the first one recharges.



So far the maximum output of the strongest weapon standard on the Titan-as said, it's a...city block buster?-barely stacks up against the three chest cannons, with them edging out a victory in power. The back cannons on the Destroy can get swaths through a whole city. How many layers are there again, and why can't the Destroy, Regen and Blue Frame start chain firing to take down the barrier?



> As for the Titan's armor-piercing capabilities, remember that Titan weapons are made for taking out Titans, Leviathans, and Hive cities.



I don't see any of the Titan's weapons being able to eat through Destroy's Shield, and it lacks a means to get around it.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 19, 2009)

LightMaster said:


> What ARE PDS guns anyhow, are they energy weapons or what? If they're standard slug throwers they're going to be fairly useless against the vast majority of units. What do the infantry usually carry...and is it nearly strong enough to be of any use against the Mobile Suit's deployed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The PDS guns are laser cannons. Standard infantry-carried anti-vehicle Lascannons can bust tanks, so I'd assume they can damage Mobile Suits.

Your point about different types of maneuverability is a good one: Gundams aren't hard to fight in CQC because they can tank blows or go fast, they're hard to fight in CQC because they literally have verniers in locations that allow them a significant degree of maneuverability compared to aircraft, which can only move in variations of "forward." 

Can you post vids of Destroy Gundam's weaponry, and their feats, as well as that of Destroy's reflector shield?


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## Orion (Sep 20, 2009)

Rough SexMore of his firepower decimating a enemy titan,gatling blaster against another titanRough Sex(which is why I find it hard to believe that phase shift is just going to shrug these off),and some turbo laser volleys against a titanRough Sex


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## LightMaster (Sep 20, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> The PDS guns are laser cannons. Standard infantry-carried anti-vehicle Lascannons can bust tanks, so I'd assume they can damage Mobile Suits.



I suppose you have a point, but do keep in mind Mobile Suit's are a bit harder then tanks in most cases.



> Can you post vids of Destroy Gundam's weaponry, and their feats, as well as that of Destroy's reflector shield?



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfI-584QlcE[/YOUTUBE]

From it's time in Berlin.


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## Ark 2.0 (Sep 20, 2009)

Argh...correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't titans made out of adamantium, or simply reinforced with it...argh?


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## madcow3005 (Sep 21, 2009)

Orion said:


> SasukeMore of his firepower decimating a enemy titan,gatling blaster against another titanSasuke(which is why I find it hard to believe that phase shift is just going to shrug these off),and some turbo laser volleys against a titanSasuke



What was the status of the Void Shields on the targeted Titans? 

From the vid that was posted, it seems many of Destroy's weapons are block-busters.

Together, they probably equal the weaponry carried by a Warlord titan in destructive output.

However, Destroy didn't tank anything on the level of its own firepower in that vid. 

Without durability feats, it's not going to out-shoot a Warlord 1v1. 

But, there is more than one Destroy Gundam, so the severe numbers disadvantage might overwhelm 1 Titan.

EDIT: Plus there was PIS in that fight. It seems Destroy Gundam in Mobile Armor mode has reflector shields on all sides, yet it chose to transform into Mobile Suit mode, where it only had reflectors on its arms, allowing incoming fire to actually damage it.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 22, 2009)

So, any arguments as to why multiple Destroy Gundams, each with around equivalent firepower to a Warlord Titan, cannot bring it down?


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## Darklyre (Sep 22, 2009)

madcow3005 said:


> So, any arguments as to why multiple Destroy Gundams, each with around equivalent firepower to a Warlord Titan, cannot bring it down?



A single void shield on a Warlord can tank more than one of its shots. The Warlord has 12 or so that must be taken down before they start regenerating. The Warlord's armor is also thick enough to let it absorb a few hits before severe structural damage.

Basically, it'd be a race to see if the Warlord can pick off the Destroys before they can overwhelm the void shields, and it's hard to call that without solid numbers on the Gundams.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 23, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> A single void shield on a Warlord can tank more than one of its shots. The Warlord has 12 or so that must be taken down before they start regenerating. The Warlord's armor is also thick enough to let it absorb a few hits before severe structural damage.
> 
> Basically, it'd be a race to see if the Warlord can pick off the Destroys before they can overwhelm the void shields, and it's hard to call that without solid numbers on the Gundams.



Lets just take the number that were shown in the series then.


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## madcow3005 (Sep 24, 2009)

So, any arguments as to why the number of Destroy Gundams shown in Seed Destiny working together can't take down a Warlord Titan?


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## madcow3005 (Oct 1, 2009)

It's been over a week and no replies from the WH40k side, so concession accepted I guess.


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