# Research: Forum Skin Contest



## Majin Lu (Mar 5, 2019)

Hi, NF.

Research time: if we have a Forum Skin Contest, do you plan on participate? 
Do you think it is better to work with a partner?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Solace (Mar 5, 2019)

yes


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## Nataly (Mar 5, 2019)

I will definitely give it a try although I haven't made skins before


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## Majin Lu (Mar 6, 2019)

Solace said:


> yes





Nataly said:


> I will definitely give it a try although I haven't made skins before


And I forget to ask, do you think it is better to work with a partner?


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## Moritsune (Mar 6, 2019)

Majin Lu said:


> And I forget to ask, do you think it is better to work with a partner?


Partners could work pretty well here, one focusing more on the gfx and the other on the coding.


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## Nataly (Mar 6, 2019)

@Majin Lu As Moritsune mentioned, team work might be a better choice for making skins. The question is whether there are enough coders to join each team.


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## Majin Lu (Mar 6, 2019)

Nataly said:


> @Majin Lu As Moritsune mentioned, team work might be a better choice for making skins. The question is whether there are enough coders to join each team.


Yeah.  This is why I created this thread, we need to be sure there are enough members and a good format so a contest can happen. 

I'm going to create a global notice for this, I'm only waiting some be removed because there are a lot of notices already. I also asked @Jackk to assist me with the technical stuff part.


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## Nataly (Mar 6, 2019)

Majin Lu said:


> Yeah.  This is why I created this thread, we need to be sure there are enough members and a good format so a contest can happen.
> 
> I'm going to create a global notice for this, I'm only waiting some be removed because there are a lot of notices already. I also asked @Jackk to assist me with the technical stuff part.


What do you think of the possibility of Jackk helping every team or participant out with their projects? Not a good idea? Too busy?

I asked Bonta about removing NF chan announcement yesterday, but he said it would be better to leave it there for a few days


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## Majin Lu (Mar 6, 2019)

Nataly said:


> What do you think of the possibility of Jackk helping every team or participant out with their projects? Not a good idea? Too busy?
> 
> I asked Bonta about removing NF chan announcement yesterday, but he said it would be better to leave it there for a few days


He is busy working on the current skins. So for now I asked him to assist me when replying stuff about some technical stuff I have no idea about. So because my lack of knowledge about skins, I'm not sure how much he can help the participants, only he can tell us. @Jackk


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## Nataly (Mar 6, 2019)

Maybe it will be easier and more helpful to have a quick coding instruction/run down on what participants need to know and do themselves


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## Jackk (Mar 7, 2019)

the 'coding' part of a custom skin isn't super complicated imo, but it can be time consuming

it does help if you already have html/css knowledge (or at least some css)

the process can be basically using your web browser to inspect the html/css of the website, then finding classes and css that you can edit

edits can be done and tested through the browser inspector option and/or through using a browser add-on (which is what people used when making custom community skins for nf back in the vbulletin days)

i don't really feel like making a more detailed rundown or guide at this point because it'll take some time... and i rather spend whatever time i do have on the projects i'm currently working on and other stuff tbh

that said, i am open to help majin lu run the contest and answer some specific technical questions etc

if enough people that can do the gfx and coding/css for the skins do show up to participate, we could give the contest a try

but i seem to remember there wasn't a lot of participation last time a skins contest was attempted some years ago

i do feel it may be too soon for this, but i'm not closed to the idea


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## Jackk (Mar 7, 2019)

also, doing a skins contest was something i had in my head for some time

but i had it in mind as my project #4

with project #3 being reviving the custom skins community

but majin kinda got ahead of me cause i'm still on project #1 lol



i get majin's just trying to do something cool now though, and i think she's pretty awesome with events

but yeah, i do have my doubts for this one tbh (maybe too soon)

i guess we'll see


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## Raiden (Mar 7, 2019)

Hi Majin Lu,

I think Heero was making a TTGL skin a few years ago, and gave out partly because he was at it alone. Groups are probably better. 

I sadly can't be of any help (still doing beginners courses for Python 3) but will cheer from the side.


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## Aphrodite (Mar 10, 2019)

I dont think coding is a part of doing the skins since an admin will do that part anyway so im pretty sure all the rest of you have to do is mostly graphics but im not into doing that with a partner because im far to anal for that.


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## ssj3boruto (Mar 10, 2019)

If I did it, I'd definitely go with a partner.


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## Moritsune (Mar 10, 2019)

Aphrodite said:


> I dont think coding is a part of doing the skins since an admin will do that part anyway so im pretty sure all the rest of you have to do is mostly graphics but im not into doing that with a partner because im far to anal for that.


An admin has to upload the code if they decide to use it in the future, you can apply changes via browser add-ons or html coding to make it look the way you want though. The contest would require you to make the edits yourself though.


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## Aphrodite (Mar 10, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> An admin has to upload the code if they decide to use it in the future, you can apply changes via browser add-ons or html coding to make it look the way you want though. The contest would require you to make the edits yourself though.



I will pass then. Not interested enough to do all that crap.


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## Moritsune (Mar 10, 2019)

Aphrodite said:


> I will pass then. Not interested enough to do all that crap.


Yeah, that's one reason we're looking at allowing partners, allowing one person to make the edits to the code, and the other to make the graphics. Otherwise the graphics part is mostly just a banner and the section icons.


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## Aphrodite (Mar 10, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Yeah, that's one reason we're looking at allowing partners, allowing one person to make the edits to the code, and the other to make the graphics. Otherwise the graphics part is mostly just a banner and the section icons.



Well good luck to you guys.


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## Skylar (Mar 10, 2019)

I think that's a great idea for a contest even if I don't know how to code. 

If a guide is provided though, people in the same position as me, who are interested but lack certain necessary skills, would have a better shot at signing in.

I also think this contest would be nice in pairs. I like teamwork.


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## Lord Tentei (Mar 10, 2019)

I wish I was better at graphics cause I wanted to help someone with graphics to be able to take part.


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## Blacku (Mar 10, 2019)

Poorly planned contest/idea


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## Jackk (Mar 10, 2019)

Black Otaku said:


> Poorly planned contest/idea



this thread and the notice for it is merely seeking to know if there'd be people with the skills/knowledge for this and interest at this point

and asking people for ideas for this


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## Kiseki (Mar 11, 2019)

The current skins are a bit erhm... been done before and sorry... kinda tacky. I used to design layouts for tumblrs and blogs, although I stopped doing that ages ago. Although I would love to see what people of this forum could come up with. Some of the avatar + signature sets look stylish as hell. I would personally keep the skins as minimalist as possible without getting too boring. When I design I would usually go for a set of max 3 or 4 colors and the middle ranged colors are usually related to the darkest or the lightest colors, but maybe one tint warmer or colder and somewhat different in hue.


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## Raiden (Mar 11, 2019)

Tossing an idea out here- I wonder if making a thread open to the general community where people work on multiple things for skins is a good idea (example: "The Official Skin Project Thread(s) or the "Official Thread for the "X" Skin").

Gin making the new rep spirals come to mind. It was considered hard to do, but Gin regularly provided updates and got feedback. Maybe something similar could work here?

sorry for this is confusing. I wonder if it's a safe alternative to a contest.


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## Majin Lu (Mar 11, 2019)

I'm not sure if a thread like that can work. Only skin makers can reply that.


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## Lord Tentei (Mar 12, 2019)

Its looking like the best way to get this going is people doing it in teams. From the looks of things.


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## Raiden (Mar 12, 2019)

Majin Lu said:


> I'm not sure if a thread like that can work. Only skin makers can reply that.



I guess I meant something like a feedback and discussion thread, where people openly collaborated and members gave their recommendations/suggestions.


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## Lord Tentei (Mar 12, 2019)

I agree with @Raiden. I got the program (Adobe) and I got the ideas for layouts. I just lack the ability and other things compared to some of the other graphic designers here. I'm very newbiesh to be honest.


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## NO (Mar 24, 2019)

Majin Lu said:


> Hi, NF.
> 
> Research time: if we have a Forum Skin Contest, do you plan on participate?
> Do you think it is better to work with a partner?



Here's a reply from an actual designer.  A forum skin contest is a terrible idea for multiple reasons.

*1. Staff can't be trusted.* There was a logo contest for the forum where it was said the logo would be used and you guys did not use the winning logo in any capacity.

*2. A forum skin is too daunting of a task to be put to "contest." *The amount of time and effort required to make a skin is something that should be appreciated. This isn't some graphic design forum with an abundance of designers versed in CSS. You should be happy that one would even consider making a skin and a contest is already too greedy of a process when you have a limited number of designers.

*3. All entering forum skins will (probably) be better, so why the fuck would you want an exclusion process like a contest?* There are 10 skins on NF right now and 7 of them should straight up be removed due their low quality. Right off the top of my head, 3 designers I know on this forum could make better skins blindfolded. That's 4 of us that could potentially make 4 high quality, forum-ready skins. Which poses the obvious issue: losing will simply feel bad when all entering skins are better than the ones we currently have.


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## Majin Lu (Mar 24, 2019)

jayjay³² said:


> Here's a reply from an actual designer.  A forum skin contest is a terrible idea for multiple reasons.
> 
> *1. Staff can't be trusted.* There was a logo contest for the forum where it was said the logo would be used and you guys did not use the winning logo in any capacity.


I wasn't aware of this logo contest. I'm going to check about it asap.



> *2. A forum skin is too daunting of a task to be put to "contest." *The amount of time and effort required to make a skin is something that should be appreciated. This isn't some graphic design forum with an abundance of designers versed in CSS. You should be happy that one would even consider making a skin and a contest is already too greedy of a process when you have a limited number of designers.


I ahve no idea of how difficult it is and I was asked for than one time to host a Skin Contest, so I'm - at least - trying to check if it is possible and the better way to make it happen if it is possible, of course.




> *3. All entering forum skins will (probably) be better, so why the fuck would you want an exclusion process like a contest?* There are 10 skins on NF right now and 7 of them should straight up be removed due their low quality. Right off the top of my head, 3 designers I know on this forum could make better skins blindfolded. That's 4 of us that could potentially make 4 high quality, forum-ready skins. Which poses the obvious issue: losing will simply feel bad when all entering skins are better than the ones we currently have.


I always used the old Naruto skin and I don't plan change that because I really like that skin, so I guess I'm not the better person to talk about the quality of the other skins, even the Naruto one. Anyway, thank you for your feedback.


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## Nataly (Mar 24, 2019)

@Majin Lu 

And the winner and the logo itself are shown in this quote, :
​


Bontakun said:


> *GotW 7 Results*​
> *Third* place went to the peace-loving Naruto of Entry 02 from @Nataly.
> *Second* place was voted to be Entry 03 by @Bontakun!
> 
> ...


​


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## Majin Lu (Mar 24, 2019)

Nataly said:


> @Majin Lu
> 
> And the winner and the logo itself are shown in this quote, :
> ​


Thanks. It fits what I'm currently planning. 

I'm going to pester someone to have it added. 

edit:



> The theme for this contest is NF logo contest. As you've noticed, we don't have a logo. Try your hand at designing one, *and if the powers that be like it,* it will become the official NF logo!


The bolded, it was informed maybe it was going to be the logo.  sometimes we indeed don't have all powers, but maybe we can try again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bontakun (Mar 25, 2019)

Majin Lu said:


> Thanks. It fits what I'm currently planning.
> 
> I'm going to pester someone to have it added.
> 
> ...


The number of entries and votes and energy for that contest were not enough to make it into an official logo, so I didn't push for it. 

It's a good pilot project though. 

We also now have an NF-chan that is much more widely accepted than those logo entries. Maybe we could do something with her?


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## Majin Lu (Mar 25, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> The number of entries and votes and energy for that contest were not enough to make it into an official logo, so I didn't push for it.
> 
> It's a good pilot project though.
> 
> We also now have an NF-chan that is much more widely accepted than those logo entries. Maybe we could do something with her?


I see. ;hmm

About NF-chan, maybe we can try use it on important NF announcements. We can plan something.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NO (Mar 29, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> The number of entries and votes and energy for that contest were not enough to make it into an official logo, so I didn't push for it.


ie; "I didn't like the entry so I didn't bother."

Next time, don't insult me by saying my entry was low energy and that I won because of the lack of competition.


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## Bontakun (Mar 29, 2019)

jayjay³² said:


> ie; "I didn't like the entry so I didn't bother."
> 
> Next time, don't insult me by saying my entry was low energy and that I won because of the lack of competition.



Nope I legitly meant what I said.

I didn't even remember it was yours. If you're going to manufacture insults against yourself that's not my business. The turnout was low; what I meant was simple as that.

Also, was your entry a usable logo? Was it an approximately 1:1 ratio graphic with a clean outline that doesn't contain copyright material? I gave examples of what a logo was in the contest OP. If it wasn't a usable logo, it wouldn't be used.


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## NO (Mar 29, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> Nope I legitly meant what I said.
> 
> I didn't even remember it was yours. If you're going to manufacture insults against yourself that's not my business. The turnout was low; what I meant was simple as that.
> 
> Also, was your entry a usable logo? Was it an approximately 1:1 ratio graphic with a clean outline that doesn't contain copyright material? I gave examples of what a logo was in the contest OP. If it wasn't a usable logo, it wouldn't be used.


The turnout being low is none of my business, that's your issue. I didn't manufacture any insults. You straight up insulted me. Don't backtrack. You said there wasn't any energy in the contest, which is a direct insult on my entry and the other entries which were created with plentiful energy. You said there weren't many voters, which insinuates I didn't deserve the win. 

Yes, it was a usable logo. It was vectored in 5000x5000. There was no copyrighted material in it. Why the fuck would I enter the contest with an unusable logo?

There are ways to talk to people. Being a massive douchebag isn't one I take kindly.


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## Undead (Mar 31, 2019)

Woah guys. Let's not get heated here. Let's all get along, and have a good ol' forum skin making time.


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## Jon Moxley (Mar 31, 2019)

damn. I wish I was good at making skins cause I was thinking of an MHA green skin theme with Midoriya and All Might on top of the name of the site. 

With a bit of effect of lighting 

would be too hard I imagine

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bontakun (Mar 31, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> Entry 01:
> 
> ​​





jayjay³² said:


> The turnout being low is none of my business, that's your issue. I didn't manufacture any insults. You straight up insulted me. Don't backtrack. You said there wasn't any energy in the contest, which is a direct insult on my entry and the other entries which were created with plentiful energy. You said there weren't many voters, which insinuates I didn't deserve the win.
> 
> Yes, it was a usable logo. It was vectored in 5000x5000. There was no copyrighted material in it. Why the fuck would I enter the contest with an unusable logo?
> 
> There are ways to talk to people. Being a massive douchebag isn't one I take kindly.



Again you're only thinking of yourself.

There were three entries and seven votes. That's not representative of the forum, and a forum logo has to be representative of the forum.

"Insulted me", "don't backtrack", etc. Your approach makes it extremely difficult to listen to you, let alone sympathize with you. You do have a legitimate complaint deep down in there, and I would have responded with sympathy if you didn't take on such a hostile tone. Shame.

As it is, effort doesn't translate to usability. Yours included the likeness of Naruto Uzumaki, a copyrighted character. That already makes it unusable. But not only that, it incorporates a wide, flat format text that's larger than the graphic itself. When you shrink that down and use it as a logo as-is, the graphic will be too small and obscure. We could separate the graphic and the text, and put the graphic to the right/left of the text to imitate this...



...monstrosity. But with the color gradient going through both the graphic and the text like that, moving it would disrupt the coloring. If it didn't include a copyrighted character, and there were more entries, I would have asked you to re-do or given a alternative wide-format version. As it is, yours was the best out of what was available, but it still wasn't usable. Sorry.

Anyway, we should move any further responses to this conversation to the GotW discussion thread as to not derail the skin hype!


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## Bontakun (Mar 31, 2019)

Dean Ambrose said:


> damn. I wish I was good at making skins cause I was thinking of an MHA green skin theme with Midoriya and All Might on top of the name of the site.
> 
> With a bit of effect of lighting
> 
> would be too hard I imagine



It's not impossible to have green with lighting effect...


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## Jon Moxley (Apr 1, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> It's not impossible to have green with lighting effect...



Yeah something like that but thinner green lines so it can seem like electrical wiring


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## NO (Apr 1, 2019)

Bontakun said:


> Again you're only thinking of yourself.


No, I'm not. I literally said we can't do a skins contest if the designers can't trust the staff holding the contest. That is thinking of everyone here.


Bontakun said:


> There were three entries and seven votes. That's not representative of the forum, and a forum logo has to be representative of the forum.


Again, not my problem. The voting thread should have been more advertised. People saw the entries, I won. It's as simple as that. This is an attempt at discrediting the win, once again.


Bontakun said:


> "Insulted me", "don't backtrack", etc. Your approach makes it extremely difficult to listen to you, let alone sympathize with you. You do have a legitimate complaint deep down in there, and I would have responded with sympathy if you didn't take on such a hostile tone. Shame.


You posted with hostility and insulted the logo, I don't have to talk to you in a respectful manner.


Bontakun said:


> As it is, effort doesn't translate to usability.


Then why isn't it usable? Let's see your reasoning in these next few quotes.


Bontakun said:


> Yours included the likeness of Naruto Uzumaki, a copyrighted character. That already makes it unusable.


Except that's not how copyright law or fair use works.


Bontakun said:


> But not only that, it incorporates a wide, flat format text that's larger than the graphic itself.


So, you have an issue with the design, which explicitly means you didn't like the winning entry when others did.


Bontakun said:


> When you shrink that down and use it as a logo as-is, the graphic will be too small and obscure.


That's not how a .PSD file works. It is vectored to avoid this issue.


Bontakun said:


> . But with the color gradient going through both the graphic and the text like that, moving it would disrupt the coloring.


So, now you have an issue with the coloring of a vectored, easily modifiable gradient? Why are you scrambling for excuses?


Bontakun said:


> it still wasn't usable


Look at your post above, you didn't even remember what it looked like. You never said it wasn't usable right after the contest.


Bontakun said:


> Anyway, we should move any further responses to this conversation to the GotW discussion thread as to not derail the skin hype!


No, see this:


> we can't do a skins contest if the designers can't trust the staff holding the contest.


You want the last word in this conversation, but you're either objectively or ethically wrong in every explanation you've given to me in why the logo wasn't used. And this is the same line of logic that will be used to deny a skins contest winner, which requires far more hard work. With your complete lack of understanding of copyright, inability to properly award a winner, you have no business running this skins contest if it were to ever happen, and you are uninvited from discussing this.

If Majin Lu wants to hold a forum skin contest, she can ask me for tips on how it should be ran, but she should, at all costs, avoid your association or council given how poorly and unfairly you handled the logo contest.


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## Bontakun (Apr 1, 2019)

jayjay³² said:


> No, I'm not. I literally said we can't do a skins contest if the designers can't trust the staff holding the contest. That is thinking of everyone here.
> 
> Again, not my problem. The voting thread should have been more advertised. People saw the entries, I won. It's as simple as that. This is an attempt at discrediting the win, once again.
> 
> ...



Please post in GotW discussion instead.


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## Demetrius (Apr 1, 2019)

Jayjay, I'm not sure why this isn't being explained to you.

Mbxx was very specific on not using any material that's from Naruto, official works or no. 

To staff, atleast.

That's why we ended up with a passive aggressive emoticon logo with nf.org being the only acceptable solution to avoid getting hit with DMCA complaints (and the reason why all avatars are disabled from guests, and other stupid shit).

Your logo without  the vector of Naruto himself should be fine or something completely original hinting at Naruto (a cup of Ramen) design-wise is what I saw as "acceptable" in Mbxx's eyes. He's going to extremes to avoid being targeted by DMCA crap hence why even vectored works showing Naruto (or any of the banners we have besides his) aren't shown publicly. That's his irritating policy; contact him.

So anything made by you, completely by your hand, that's subtle is acceptable. 
Anything that features any of Kishimoto's works was deemed too risky by Mbxx.


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## Demetrius (Apr 1, 2019)

I also don't know about this absurd issue with the gradiation and coloring but whatever, that should be a non-issue. 

I'd ask an administrator as to why that's even an issue.


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## Majin Lu (Apr 1, 2019)

Ok, I guess it can continue to be discussed in GotW discussion like Bonta asked.

Thank you all for the feedback.


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