# Mihawk vs Kaido



## rext1 (Jan 16, 2015)

As title lays out plainly.

Its the World's Greatest Swordsman vs The World's Strongest Critter.

Venue: Marineford
Mindset: Max Bloodlust!!

NO RESTRICTIONS!!!

The Hawk-meister vs the beast.  

What does ur gut say?


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## Quipchaque (Jan 16, 2015)

My gut says the Hawk. Rival to the strongest Yonko ain?t no joke.


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## Bernkastel (Jan 16, 2015)

Could go either way by hype.


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## rext1 (Jan 16, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> My gut says the Hawk. Rival to the strongest Yonko ain?t no joke.



Thats what my gut has always told me too!

The Kaido Pirates are the Red-Hair Pirates rivals as fellow YONKO crews.

However, Mihawk is Shanks rival mano-a-mano.


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## Ruse (Jan 16, 2015)

Kaido very high diff.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 16, 2015)

rext1 said:


> Thats what my gut has always told me too!
> 
> The Kaido Pirates are the Red-Hair Pirates rivals as fellow YONKO crews.
> 
> However, Mihawk is Shanks rival mano-a-mano.



Yep truth. Also Kaido prefers to avoid fighting him Mihawk would fight Shanks anytime.


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## rext1 (Jan 16, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yep truth. Also Kaido prefers to avoid fighting him Mihawk would fight Shanks anytime.



Agreed.

Mihawk wrote Shanks a blank cheque decades ago. 

Shanks is free to cash it in at his leisure - anytime. Anywhere.


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## Pirao (Jan 16, 2015)

Can go either way, IMO Kaido and Shanks are the strongest Yonkou, the difference between them should be minimal, and Mihawk~Shanks, so...


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## Luke (Jan 16, 2015)

Kaidou wins with extreme difficulty. 

I view it as: 

Shanks > Akainu > Kaidou > Mihawk > Big Mom 

With very small gaps in between of course.


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## Amol (Jan 16, 2015)

Kiado high diff .


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## Vengeance (Jan 16, 2015)

Can go either way or Kaido very high - extreme difficulty imo, based on his impressive hype.


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## Dellinger (Jan 16, 2015)

Kaido wins.


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## Venom (Jan 16, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yep truth. Also Kaido prefers to avoid fighting him Mihawk would fight Shanks anytime.



Because there were no benefits in fighting Shanks.
The purpose of Kaido sailing towards Marineford was to kill the  Whitebeard pirates off when they were weakened.
What would have happened if they fought against a fresh Red Hair Crew?
Major deaths and inuries on both sides.
No bargain for Kaido.

OT:
IMO it can go either way as I share the opionion that Mihawk is a legit Top Tier in the same league with Shanks, Akainu etc.
Considering that we have no feats of him yet but his big hype I will also place him in that league.


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## Dellinger (Jan 16, 2015)

I thought Kaido had a little skirmish with Shanks it's not like he just left.


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## Dellinger (Jan 16, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yep truth. Also Kaido prefers to avoid fighting him Mihawk would fight Shanks anytime.



Mihawk is the one avoiding a fight with Shanks.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 16, 2015)

^Kings don't fight lesser beings unless no other option is given.


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## Gilgamesh (Jan 16, 2015)

I hate you all

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Extravlad (Jan 16, 2015)

Mihawk wins, he's Zoro's finall test, he has to be stronger than the second/third major antagonist of the NW.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 16, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Mihawk wins, he's Zoro's finall test, he has to be stronger than the second/third major antagonist of the NW.



^Also this. It is weird logic I admit but it?s true nevertheless just like it?s true when someone suspected Doflamingo to be fucking strong cause he?s the first NW antagonist. One cannot simply ignore plot importance for battle characters.



Zοrο said:


> Because there were no benefits in fighting Shanks.
> The purpose of Kaido sailing towards Marineford was to kill the  Whitebeard pirates off when they were weakened.
> What would have happened if they fought against a fresh Red Hair Crew?
> Major deaths and inuries on both sides.
> ...



Yes however it?s still very much out of character for a character as bloodlusted as Kaido. There must be some form of fear/respect that makes him avoid a battle.


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## Ghost (Jan 16, 2015)

Either way extreme diff.


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## Sabco (Jan 16, 2015)

hype means nothing  without  feats to back it up


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## Jeep Brah (Jan 16, 2015)

Mihawk high difficulty


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## Gohara (Jan 16, 2015)

Kaidou wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty, IMO.  The Yonkou are the 4 most powerful pirates, so Kaidou should be more powerful than Mihawk.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 16, 2015)

Mihawk mid diff

The average swordsman would destroy the average animal
Therefore the strongest swordsman destroys the strongest animal


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## jNdee~ (Jan 16, 2015)

lol mid diff.


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## sanninme rikudo (Jan 16, 2015)

Kaido no doubt. I feel as if Yonkos are in another league


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## Dunno (Jan 16, 2015)

I'll go with Mihawk extreme diff or at least really close to it. Being Shanks' rival and Zoro's goal and all. Can't really see him or Shanks losing to anyone except Blackbeard.


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## Magentabeard (Jan 16, 2015)

I voted Mihawk for fun, and noticed that Mihawk is winning by far???
Hopefully others did the same.


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## Dr. White (Jan 16, 2015)

Idk I can see Mihawk edging out because I think the title WSS would hold more weight than Worlds Strongest Animal. That's just my subjective impression though. Other than that there is little to go off of. Besides the fact they both didn't wanna fight Shanks


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## Canute87 (Jan 16, 2015)

Mihawk  retreats about half of fast as he does from shanks.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 17, 2015)

Gohara said:


> Kaidou wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty, IMO.  The Yonkou are the 4 most powerful pirates, so Kaidou should be more powerful than Mihawk.



The yonko title represents the 4 strongest pirate captain, naturally Mihawk wouldn?t be included. This was hot topic multiple times but if you want proof then think about the following situation.

Instead of Whitebeard and his crew showing up at Marineford only Whitebeard himself does- what happens?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 17, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> The yonko title represents the 4 strongest pirate captain, naturally Mihawk wouldn?t be included. This was hot topic multiple times but if you want proof then think about the following situation.
> 
> Instead of Whitebeard and his crew showing up at Marineford only Whitebeard himself does- what happens?



He would get 1shot by Mihawk because Jozu wouldn't be around to block the hit for his frail old body


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## rext1 (Jan 17, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> He would get 1shot by Mihawk because Jozu wouldn't be around to block the hit for his frail old body



I honestly wonder how a quake wave/bubble would interact with a flying slash???

That being said, Old WB wasnt tanking that slash and was lucky to have a diamond-man on staff to intercept.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 17, 2015)

Kaidou is obviously the weakest of the Yonkou...he needs 500 zoan users just to be able to even out with the other yonkou crews

Mihawk high diffs Shanks, so mid diff Kaidou is definitely possible


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## maupp (Jan 17, 2015)

"Rext1" and "HisMajestyMihawk" stop going back and forth with those nonsenses of yours, no top tier mid diff another top tier, nor would a casual slash from Mihawk trouble WB . 

Anyway as for the question, Mihawks takes this by virtue of having more hypes than Kaido, not to mention he is Zoro's final goal.


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## Orca (Jan 17, 2015)

Could go either way I guess. I don't see Mihawk being Zoro's opponent ever much less final opponent.


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## Jeep Brah (Jan 17, 2015)

maupp said:


> "Rext1" and "HisMajestyMihawk" stop going back and forth with those nonsenses of yours, no top tier mid diff another top tier, nor would a casual slash from Mihawk trouble WB .
> 
> Anyway as for the question, Mihawks takes this by virtue of having more hypes than Kaido, not to mention he is Zoro's final goal.


Mihawk would wipe his ass with any of the Yonkou barring Shanks


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## ShadowReaper (Jan 17, 2015)

We know absolutely nothing about their true power and what we have is pure hype. 

If either of them wins, it will be a very close fight likely.


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## Canute87 (Jan 17, 2015)

maupp said:


> Anyway as for the question, Mihawks takes this by virtue of having more hypes than Kaido*, not to mention he is Zoro's final goal.*




From the fans you mean?


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## Dellinger (Jan 17, 2015)

maupp said:


> "Rext1" and "HisMajestyMihawk" stop going back and forth with those nonsenses of yours, no top tier mid diff another top tier, nor would a casual slash from Mihawk trouble WB .
> 
> Anyway as for the question, Mihawks takes this by virtue of having more hypes than Kaido, not to mention he is Zoro's final goal.



How exactly does Mihawk have more hype than Kaido?


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## Canute87 (Jan 17, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> How exactly does Mihawk have more hype than Kaido?



The fans White Hawk....the fans.


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 18, 2015)

Also I'm a huge Mihawk fan, I'd say draw or could go either way extreme diff.


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## maupp (Jan 18, 2015)

Lol are people seriously asking how Mihawk has more hypes than Kaido .

Ok here I'm gonna list their respective hypes :

Kaido only hypes so far are :

-Being a Yonkou
-Being the world Strongest Creature

Now here are Mihawk hypes :

-Being Shanks rival whom many believe to currently being the strongest Yonkou and Mihawk is at the very *least* equal to him, which is already more hypes than just being a mere Yonkou
-World Strongest Swordman which is more hypes than being the World Strongest Creature
- Zoro's final goal. Through him and their final fight Zoro has to push himself to reach at least Prime Rei level if not surpass him(Prime Rei) most likely surpass just like BB will be the guy that will push Luffy to surpass Roger, unless you're one of those guys who believe that Shilliew will kill Mihawk and becomes Zoro's final opponent 

How on earth aren't Mihawk's Hypes above Kaido's whom I must remind some will probably be one of the earliest Yonkou to be dealt with by The crew and co

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Dellinger (Jan 18, 2015)

maupp said:


> Lol are people seriously asking how Mihawk has more hypes than Kaido .
> 
> Ok here I'm gonna list their respective hypes :
> 
> ...



Nothing makes Mihawk equal to Shanks.Absolutely nothing.If you speak by hype,Shanks' hype and standing takes an absolute crap on Mihawk's.

And no way in hell that Mihawk's title is above Kaido's.Not all people in OP are swordsmen and the strongest certainly aren't.

Kaido has made a pirate like Doflamingo crap his pants on,the same guy who was around WB and was laughing his ass off.That's how fearsome Kaido is.


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## Sabox (Jan 18, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> How exactly does Mihawk have more hype than Kaido?



he is zoro last enemy
he is stronger than 1 armed shanks but equal to  two arms shanks
cut tsunami in half with a single slash! one handed imagine his two handed slashes they can cut the read line easily!
the world strongest swordsman!
White-beard fears him to the point he didn't have the courage to fight him equally and made jozu block his attack!

This is more than enough hype!


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## Amol (Jan 18, 2015)

I am breaking my golden rule of not arguing in Mihawk thread but whatever.
1) Mihawk is NOT Zoro's final fight.
Zoro gonna have his final fight with someone from BB Pirates in final war.
So no such bullshit of scaling Mihawk to EoS Zoro.
If Zoro vs Mihawk happens(i don't think it will ever happen), it will be before Final War and I am not sure how strong Zoro will be at that time. 
Maybe Kizaru level.
2) Once stripped down from being EoS Zoro level all Mihawk has is his title which only means bearer is a Top tier.
Kiado high diffs him.


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## Dellinger (Jan 18, 2015)

You mean WB didn't even give a darn about him.

If anything,Mihawk's hype took an immense blow at Marineford.No one was bothering with him.


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## maupp (Jan 18, 2015)

WB talked about Mihawk and Shanks legendary battle in the GL and don't even get me started with the whole WSS title considering Shanks is a bloody Swordman. At tje very least and I repeat *AT THE VERY LEAST* Mihawk is as strong as Shanks with him possibly being stronger than him with the WSS hypes on his side(yes Shanks is a bloody Swordman unless anyone can prove otherwise).

Mihawk is Zoro's final goal. There is a whole chapter dedicated to this early OP. Both Zoro and Mihawk made vows. Zoro swore to never ever lose again against a swordman until he beat Mihawk and the latter swore to Zoro that he'll be waiting for him* AT THE TOP* for however many months, years it'll take him.

Hypes wise Mihawk has far more than Kaido who only has Yonkou + World Strongest Creature going for him. And please "White hawk" don't undersell the WSS title to try to make an argument for Kaidou's title of WSC. Are you forgetting that Shanks is a swordman

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bernkastel (Jan 18, 2015)

I dont think Mihawk will be Zoro's final opponent but he will surely fight him otherwise it would be very anticlimatic after all the years fans waited.
With that being said Mihawk certainly has lots of hype but so does Kaido.
Both are rivals to Shanks,it's just that Mihawk has a friendly rivalry unlike Kaido and BM.
Nothing suggests one is stronger than the other so i don't see how people can be so sure one is stronger.Both stand at the top of the food chain and should be roughly equal.To say someone wins with certainty  one has to be completely biased.
Also if Luffy fights Shanks there are many possibilities that he is not a true swordsman but rather a mixed fighter who uses both kicks,swords and maybe punches.


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

maupp said:


> WB talked about Mihawk and Shanks legendary battle in the GL and don't even get me started with the whole WSS title considering Shanks is a bloody Swordman. At tje very least and I repeat *AT THE VERY LEAST* Mihawk is as strong as Shanks with him possibly being stronger than him with the WSS hypes on his side(yes Shanks is a bloody Swordman unless anyone can prove otherwise).


I don't see a man who was clashing head on with whitebeard being forced to part a battle with the third strongest person in his crew.  Also the trend of mihawk avoiding any altercation with Shanks is amazing. Also that Mihawk got that title without ever fighting shanks again which leads into more questions how he got it seeing that he also achieved it without even fighting vista also.  There are a lot of mysteries surrounding that title that even 700+ chapters it hasn't been revealed.  



> Mihawk is Zoro's final goal. There is a whole chapter dedicated to this early OP. Both Zoro and Mihawk made vows. Zoro swore to never ever lose again against a swordman until he beat Mihawk and the latter swore to Zoro that he'll be waiting for him* AT THE TOP* for however many months, years it'll take him.



Which has nothing to do with kaidou.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> I don't see a man who was clashing head on with whitebeard being forced to part a battle with the third strongest person in his crew.  Also the trend of mihawk avoiding any altercation with Shanks is amazing. *Also that Mihawk got that title without ever fighting shanks again* which leads into more questions how he got it seeing that he also achieved it without even fighting vista also.  There are a lot of mysteries surrounding that title that even 700+ chapters it hasn't been revealed.



When was it ever stated that Mihawk got that title without ever fighting Shanks?
Didn't even WB comment on how legendary their fights have been?
Or did I misunderstand you?


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## Ruse (Jan 18, 2015)

Even when Mihawk is paired up against someone who isn't a swordsman, his title is still brought up as evidence of superiority. 

Incredible.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Freecss said:


> Even when Mihawk is paired up against someone who isn't a swordsman, his title is still brought up as evidence of superiority.
> 
> Incredible.




Of course they will.
What kind of logic is that?
His WSM titel is of significance as it is (to an opinionwise higher or lesser extent) a reflection of his capabilities.
Or are you also going to tell me that Kaido is only the strongest beast and has nothing against humans or what?


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> When was it ever stated that Mihawk got that title without ever fighting Shanks?



After Shanks lost his arm Mihawk never fought him again, Shanks went on to become on of the four strongest pirates in the new world, Mihawk refused to fight him saying some crap about not changeling handicap people. 

I'm very sure the people Mihawk fought afterwards can't hold a candle to Shanks.



> Didn't even WB comment on how legendary their fights have been?
> Or did I misunderstand you?



Something that occurred in the past before either reached the peak of power doesn't really have any significance to me.  Old man whitebeard seeing the fruit of Roger's words blow over in the new generation of big dogs would be something worth hearing about  but in a relative sense I doubt it would compare to what he himself has been apart of.


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## Lawliet (Jan 18, 2015)

> After Shanks lost his arm Mihawk never fought him again, Shanks went on to become on of the four strongest pirates in the new world, Mihawk refused to fight him saying some crap about not changeling handicap people.



And Mihawk went to be the strongest swordsman alive in the entire world. Unless you think the 2nd strongest swordsman in the entire world can't even give a yonkou a high difficulty fight, then let me remind you that Mihawk would give a higher difficulty fight than the 2nd strongest.

And we have already seen that the loss of a body part can really weaken people. kyros.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> After Shanks lost his arm Mihawk never fought him again, Shanks went on to become on of the four strongest pirates in the new world, Mihawk refused to fight him saying some crap about not changeling handicap people.
> 
> *I'm very sure the people Mihawk fought afterwards can't hold a candle to Shanks.*



This statement is completely speculation and has no ground to base on.
You could as well argue that Shanks fought against people who can't hold a candle to Mihawk and that Shanks' handicap did effect his overall strength so much he was not worthy an opponent anymore.
Of course it's bullshit.
But still. It has as much value as that.

Saying that Mihawk refused to fight Shanks cause he is not capable of fighting him is more speculative than anything else.


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## Kaiser (Jan 18, 2015)

Mihawk is Zoro’s endgame goal. Whether he'll infact be the final opponent of Zoro or not doesn't really matter at this point. The fact remain that acquiring his level of power is Zoro’s ultimate goal and knowing Zoro and his obsession with strength, it would be stupid to think that Zoro will be so fixated in surpassing a guy who is not among the strongest out there and he already met the strongest out there in the story. The goal of reaching Mihawk at this stage in the story is meant to be as significant and difficulty as Nami’s goal of mapping the entire world or Chopper’s goal of finding a cure for all diseases when Kaido's significance in the story is to be the earliest yonkou to be defeated by previous rookies. 

Add into that his rivarly with Shanks, yes that other controversial topic. The fact remain they had their duels when they were already world wide famed, duels so legendary it echoed in the entire grandline and reached even Whitebeard's ears. We know that at the very least Shanks was already a pirate since a decade or more, so they weren't rookies anymore, yet they were continuously growing at similar pace

We know that at some point Shanks became a yonkou and Mihawk became the world strongest swordsman. He is at the top of his discipline with a title of world strongest only Whitebeard and Kaido are known to possess at this point. We also know Mihawk is a loner and you can't become a yonkou by yourself, without ambition to be one, without subordinates, allies or territories. We also know that their rivalry still haven’t faded to this day as Shanks still reached for his sword as soon as Mihawk came to his Island. Mihawk’s presence still instilled so much awe and fear in Shanks’s subordinates even though their captain is a Yonkou and Mihawk himself made fun of him during their dialogue. So in the end, there is no reason to believe that people who have been rivals for so long would have different growth-rate, so no reason to believe Shanks was outright stronger, especially when the former even lost his arm to boot. 

Though Kaido has his amount of hype as well and i don't necessarly think the fact he apparently stopped fighting Shanks is a mark against him, so this fight can go either way, though due to Mihawk's past i tend to give him the win more times than not


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> *This statement is completely speculation and has no ground to base on.*
> You could as well argue that Shanks fought against people who can't hold a candle to Mihawk and that Shanks' handicap did effect his overall strength so much he was not worthy an opponent anymore.
> Of course it's bullshit.
> But still. It has as much value as that.



Shanks became one of the four strongest pirates in the world, among the likes of Whitebeard who everyone knows to be the world's strongest man.

Which means by default there is no one stronger than them.




> Saying that Mihawk refused to fight Shanks cause he is not capable of fighting him is more speculative than anything else.


I said nothing of the sort.


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> And Mihawk went to be the strongest swordsman alive in the entire world. Unless you think the 2nd strongest swordsman in the entire world can't even give a yonkou a high difficulty fight, then let me remind you that Mihawk would give a higher difficulty fight than the 2nd strongest.



Nobody is Midd-diffing anyone at the top,  never suggested otherwise.



> *And we have already seen that the loss of a body part can really weaken people. kyros*.



Shanks with one fucking arm evenly clashed with whitebeard using both.

Unless off course  losing his arm kept him out of prime roger territory or something.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Shanks became one of the four strongest pirates in the world, among the likes of Whitebeard who everyone knows to be the world's strongest man.
> 
> Which means by default there is no one stronger than them.



The Admirals, a certain Fleet Admiral and another Revolutionary say hi.

Becoming a Yonkou is not just simply being strong.
Influence, Crew, Allies etc. are a lot more important.
Or do you think that Shank's strength was the reason he became a Yonkou?
Mihawk doesn't have any influence, crew, allies or claims parts of the new world nor does he give a darn about these things unlike all the other Yonkous we have seen so far.
He is a lone wolf claiming one island. 
His strength is basically the only thing he has going for him.
Him not being a Yonko holds no relevance to his actual strength.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 18, 2015)

Mihawk >> Shanks > Kaido

common sense if you read the manga

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

actually, you cant common sense the manga.

Kaido is WSC, that means he's the most gangster by default, but we don't accept that, because the common sense in this manga is ignoring common sense by looking at other common senses.

Dafuq.


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> The Admirals, a certain Fleet Admiral and another Revolutionary say hi.



Apart from the fact that admirals are not stronger than yonkou's they have no impact on the people in question, same thing goes Monkey D. Dragon.  

Why exactly would Mihawk need to fight Dragon?



> Becoming a Yonkou is not just simply being strong.
> Influence, Crew, Allies etc. are a lot more important.
> Or do you think that Shank's strength was the reason he became a Yonkou?
> Mihawk doesn't have any influence, crew, allies or claims parts of the new world nor does he give a darn about these things unlike all the other Yonkous we have seen so far.
> ...



I don't know where people get this reasoning,  Whitebeard and Roger had very strong crew members and it didn't stop them from being the strongest individuals with one of the strongest crews to date.  

Pirate crews fight pirate crews, the strongest fight the strongest .  Did you see Croc, Enel or Lucci being tag teamed by more than one strawhat? You get stronger by fighting the strongest people, the strongest people have the capabilities to attract the strongest people with them, it's not some coincidence that this occurs, it is natural law.  Roger whitebeard's equal had Rayleigh a possible yonkou class fighter as his underling.

This foolish misconception about crews and allies being more important needs to be destroyed.  The capability one an individual to attract so many strong individuals the ironically the same bloody thing Mihawk pointed out around him speaks volumes about an individual's strength.


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

Being a yonkou is mainly the strength of the captain. Zoro is right, that it's not the only criteria, but it's mostly is.

it's like, 90% Captain's overall power, 9% Crew str, 1% influence/authority


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## Quipchaque (Jan 18, 2015)

^ The numbers you gave us do not matter. Fact remains a yonko can?t balance the whole shichibukai group or Marine HQ on his own. He?d get low-diffed by Marine HQ and mid-diffed by the shichibukai.


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## Dellinger (Jan 18, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> This statement is completely speculation and has no ground to base on.
> You could as well argue that Shanks fought against people who can't hold a candle to Mihawk and that Shanks' handicap did effect his overall strength so much he was not worthy an opponent anymore.
> Of course it's bullshit.
> But still. It has as much value as that.
> ...



Shanks is fighting against emperors.Unless you think that the Yonko don't hold a candle against Mihawk.


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> ^ The numbers you gave us do not matter. Fact remains a yonko can?t balance the whole shichibukai group or Marine HQ on his own. He?d get low-diffed by Marine HQ and mid-diffed by the shichibukai.



Yea it doesn't, it's just my interpretation.

And the fact that you gave also doesn't matter in the discussion they're having


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Apart from the fact that admirals are not stronger than yonkou's they have no impact on the people in question, same thing goes Monkey D. Dragon.
> 
> Why exactly would Mihawk need to fight Dragon?



Why exactly would Mihawk need to fight any of the Yonko?



> I don't know where people get this reasoning,  Whitebeard and Roger had very strong crew members and it didn't stop them from being the strongest individuals with one of the strongest crews to date.
> 
> Pirate crews fight pirate crews, the strongest fight the strongest .  Did you see Croc, Enel or Lucci being tag teamed by more than one strawhat? You get stronger by fighting the strongest people, the strongest people have the capabilities to attract the strongest people with them, it's not some coincidence that this occurs, it is natural law.  Roger whitebeard's equal had Rayleigh a possible yonkou class fighter as his underling.
> 
> This foolish misconception about crews and allies being more important needs to be destroyed.  The capability one an individual to attract so many strong individuals the ironically the same bloody thing Mihawk pointed out around him speaks volumes about an individual's strength.



I never said that strength isn't important.
But the notion that Mihawk not being a Yonko somehow means that he is not that strong is bullshit.
Of course a Yonko has to fight his way up.
But do you actually think that Mihawk just sat there, did nothing and all of sudden they gave him the title of the WSS?
You are comparing two differen things here.
Shanks strength and charisma got him the crew, the influence and all the other things he now has as a Yonko. 
Strength may be/ is more important than these things individually but when adding these things together it's still the main reason why someone is a Yonko.
But from what we can tell Mihawk doesn't give a darn about these things.
You are telling me that just because Mihawk doesn't want these things he is not in the same league as the Yonko.
That in my opinion is false.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 18, 2015)

Did I say that it does? I was addressing _your_ point after all.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> Shanks is* fighting* against emperors.*Unless you think that the Yonko don't hold a candle against Mihawk*.



Take another look to what I said:



> _You could as well argue that Shanks* fought* against people_





> *Of course it's bullshit.*


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

uhm, what......


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## Quipchaque (Jan 18, 2015)

jNdee~ said:


> uhm, what......



You said 90% of the yonko-status is due to the captain?s strength. I gave you an example why that?s not true. Not even Roger could be yonko let alone pirate king on his own.


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## Lawliet (Jan 18, 2015)

> Shanks with one fucking arm evenly clashed with whitebeard using both.



Of course he can clash with WB, he's a yonkou. And that clash was not meant to show the strength of neither WB nor Shanks, it was meant to show how each one of them is strongly holding into his opinion and standing their ground. 



> Unless off course losing his arm kept him out of prime roger territory or something.


That's very possible, which is actually what I think. But that's not the discussion here. Fact is, Shanks lost an arm and we know that the loss of a body part can handicap people in one piece, big time. Sickness can handicap people big time, let alone an entire body part.


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> Why exactly would Mihawk need to fight any of the Yonko?



Why would Mihawk need to fight Shanks? Don't know maybe because it's what has been causing issues with his title since marineford.  We've seen Shanks not once but twice  go up against the strongest individuals in the ocean and not once fell short, Evenly clashed with whitebeard went on to intercept kaidou and successfully reach marienford battle faster than anybody expected to individuals that have a title of "world's strongest".
Mihawk cuts a battle short with WB's third strongest follower and goes on to fight fodder afterwards.  Yet nothing but his title is keeping him afloat, Not seeing the issue here? 



> I never said that strength isn't important.
> But the notion that Mihawk not being a Yonko somehow means that he is not that strong is bullshit.
> Of course a Yonko has to fight his way up.
> But do you actually think that Mihawk just sat there, did nothing and all of sudden they gave him the title of the WSS?
> ...




No you didn't but the belief that it isn't the most important is absolutely false.  Shanks gathering all those allies or any yonkou for that matter is nothing more than a cause and effect.  People gravitate towards the strong you pretend as if any yonkou spends time gathering new world allies or something. The fight amongst each other to reach to the top the people follow them as a result  Luffy has bart following him willing to die for him and luffy doesn't even know he exists.



> You are telling me that just because Mihawk doesn't want these things he is not in the same league as the Yonko.
> That in my opinion is false.



Same league is not the same as being stronger which you or ( maybe it was maupp) can argue with absolutely nothing but past events and a completely underwhelming performance to back up. And what has so far shown to be a completely ambiguous title.  Even  BEFORE Whitebeard strongest man title was revealed we knew why.  Even now Mihawk cannot justify his title to which marineford was the best possible way to do so but failed to deliver.



> But from what we can tell Mihawk doesn't give a darn about these things.


Also if Shanks doesn't give a darn about WSS how is that held against him?


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Of course he can clash with WB, he's a yonkou.



He took on the world's strongest man with one arm dude a very powerful swing,  Yonkou doesn't validate this. 




> *And that clash was not meant to show the strength of neither WB nor Shanks, it was meant to show how each one of them is strongly holding into his opinion and standing their ground. *



They say words can move mountains.

I guess it only makes sense that opinions can split the sky the half.


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You said 90% of the yonko-status is due to the captain?s strength. I gave you an example why that?s not true. Not even Roger could be yonko let alone pirate king on his own.



that's why I said 90%, because not everything is done on their own.

I'm getting your point, but get this, it's still mostly dependent on the Captai's strength.


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## Venom (Jan 18, 2015)

Canute87 said:


> Why would Mihawk need to fight Shanks? Don't know maybe because it's what has been causing issues with his title since marineford.  We've seen Shanks not once but twice  go up against the strongest individuals in the ocean and not once fell short, Evenly clashed with whitebeard went on to intercept kaidou and successfully reach marienford battle faster than anybody expected to individuals that have a title of "world's strongest".
> Mihawk cuts a battle short with WB's third strongest follower and goes on to fight fodder afterwards.  Yet nothing but his title is keeping him afloat, Not seeing the issue here?
> 
> 
> ...



You are definitely mistaking me for someone else Canute.
I never argued that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but that Mihawk is a so called "Top Tier" and can give any Top Tier an extreme diff fight and occasionally can win against one.
I or more like we have no idea how strong Mihawk is but I am just arguing for why I think that he has to be a Top Tier.
I am also not particularly talking about a Mihawk-Shanks rivalry but more of a Mihawk-Top Tier comparison.
Shanks just happens to be that Top Tier to be in comparison.


Marineford was a big mess Canute and even you know that.
People jumped from "Ace can win against Aokiji" to "Ace gets low diffed by Aokiji" in mere 3 chapters.
Mihawk is definitely lacking in regards to feats but IMO he has neither shown us feats for why people should dehype him or hype him up to be significantly stronger than Shanks.


Regarding your question:
Again I think you are mistaking me for someone else.
I don't think that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks so him not caring about the WSS-title would be the same for me as Mihawk not caring for a Yonko title.


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## jNdee~ (Jan 18, 2015)

Let's drop the Shanks/Mihawk topic. Neither would win, Shanks supporters would use Yonkou basis whilst Mihawk supporters would use WSS basis.

Neither is an accurate measurement of who is stronger.

Kaido is both a Yonkou and has a "WS" title. But doesn't mean he's stronger or weaker than both.


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## Quipchaque (Jan 18, 2015)

jNdee~ said:


> that's why I said 90%, because not everything is done on their own.
> 
> I'm getting your point, but get this, it's still mostly dependent on the Captai's strength.



That is true indeed. Didn?t try to argue that. The number threw me off since it seemed like you were saying the crew is basically a non-factor.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 18, 2015)

By virtue of Shonen rules, a title with less members has stronger individuals than a title with more members

There are 4 Yonkous
There is only 1 WSS

Therefore Mihawk > Kaidou/Shanks/BigMom/Teach

This will remain true until there are 4 WSS's and only 1 Yonkou

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> By virtue of Shonen rules, a title with less members has stronger individuals than a title with more members
> 
> There are 4 Yonkous
> There is only 1 WSS
> ...



And apparently by shounen rules he who has more than one title > person with one title.

Kaidou : Yonkou  +  World's strongest creature.


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## Luke (Jan 18, 2015)

I wonder how long it'll take people to accept that Mihawk is weaker than Shanks.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 18, 2015)

Luke said:


> I wonder how long it'll take people to accept that Mihawk is weaker than Shanks.



that will only happen if the small population of delusional Shanks-wankers outlive the rest of the rational One Piece readers


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Mihawk fans  and rational one piece readers mix about as well as 

Michael Jackson and any woman.


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## Suit (Jan 18, 2015)

Serious response though, Mihawk would probably just walk away.


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## Canute87 (Jan 18, 2015)

Mihawk is that a Djinn in Golden Sun.  Sends some attacks your way and then runs way afterwards.


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## Dellinger (Jan 18, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> By virtue of Shonen rules, a title with less members has stronger individuals than a title with more members
> 
> There are 4 Yonkous
> There is only 1 WSS
> ...



The Yonko are the 4 strongest pirates,Mihawk is a pirate so the Yonko > Mihawk.


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## Ekkologix (Jan 18, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> The Yonko are the 4 strongest pirates,Mihawk is a pirate so the Yonko > Mihawk.



If we go by this logic then Luffy will never defeat a Yonkou.


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## Luke (Jan 18, 2015)

How the fuck does that make any sense?


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## Jabba (Jan 18, 2015)

Lol five pages of people comparing hype.


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## Jeep Brah (Jan 18, 2015)

Mihawk trashes him *-snip-*


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## Freechoice (Jan 18, 2015)

mauppoo said:


> -World Strongest Swordman which is more hypes than being the World Strongest Creature



why                                                    **


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## trance (Jan 18, 2015)

It goes either way. I'd pin Mihawk about equal with Kuzan/Kaido and just marginally below Shanks/Sakazuki.


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## Gohara (Jan 19, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> The yonko title represents the 4 strongest pirate captain, naturally Mihawk wouldn?t be included.



I'm not referring to the titles specifically.  I'm referring to it being said that the pre time skip Yonkou are the 4 most powerful pirates.  That likely is something that is consistent with being a Yonkou, but yeah.


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## drew8324 (Jan 19, 2015)

trance said:


> It goes either way. I'd pin Mihawk about equal with Kuzan/Kaido and just marginally below Shanks/Sakazuki.



WhiteBeard half dead, old, sick, and stabbed, Low-high diffed Akainu. Kaido was confident enough to take out the Old Yonko before he reached MarineFord.

Any Yonko trashes any Admiral. Akainu just happens to be stronger than the other Admirals but is not at the Yonko's level 

*Shanks>Yonko's>>Akainu/Kuzan>Admirals*

As for Mihawk vs Kaido I wanna say Kaido High or Extreme diff


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## trance (Jan 19, 2015)

Right because let's ignore the fact that Whitebeard was completely bloodlusted and only managed to do so because of a blindside. Also, let's ignore the fact that Akainu has canonically demonstrated being capable of dispersing Whitebeard's quakes with his own powers. 



drew8324 said:


> Kaido was confident enough to take out the Old Yonko before he reached MarineFord



Being confident in one's ability to defeat another person =/= actually being strong enough to defeat another person. This is one-sided reasoning at the very best.


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## Mike S (Jan 20, 2015)

I don't really have a strong opinion on Mihawk vs Shanks. Logically, if we were to go by the information provided by the manga so far, the battle would be in favor of Mihawk, but from a general shonen and writing standpoint, it makes more sense that Shanks is the stronger of the two. Due to their unsettled-rivalry and connections to the main characters, we have no choice but to assume a battle between the two can go either way until proven otherwise. 

To address the other situation, I always hated when someone tried to use the Yonkou title to claim superiority over another top tier. Like many have mentioned before, the captains strength isn't the only factor in becoming a Yonkou. If I were to give a strong guy a castle, a strong army, and land, what would he be? An emporer. If I were to take it away, what would he be? A fxcking strong guy. Are you telling me, if I were to replace the captains of Big Mom and Kaido's crew with Mihawk, Kuzan, or Sakazuki, they wouldn't be Yonkou crews anymore? Are you telling me they wouldn't stalemate Shanks and Teach also? The intimidation factor carried by the Yonkou's doesn't stem soley from the captain's strength. It also come from it's military might. Many people seem to misinterpret the intimidation factor of the Yonkou as the captains strength. I talked about it here



The Pirate Hunter said:


> I think the problem stems from the introductions. The Admirals are usually introduced casually and alone, while the Yonko's are introduced as a whole with their crew. People unintentionally mistake the feeling of power the crew as a whole is giving off, as the power of the captain. If Kuzan showed up on a ship with two characters a little weaker than him, and a couple of high-end VA's, he would definitely give off the same vibe as a Yonko.
> 
> I feel Mihawk also suffers from this problem.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Given the information from the manga it is more logical to conclude Shanks would win. 
-Successor to Roger, Mentor to Luffy.
-Able to duel with Mihawk in the past.
-Clash's with WB and splits sky with him (then WSM).
-Stops bloodlusted Akainu dead in his tracks.
-Mihawk incessently wishes not to duel shanks, and left when he came.

Mihawk is the strongest Swordsman, and that makes him top tier. But he specializes seemingly in one category, just very very well. Shanks hyp/portrayal comes in many different forms, including swordsmanship itself. It'd be more logical to say Amazing Swordsmanship + Top 3 Haki (with the possibility of other skills) > Top 1 Swordsmanship + Great Haki.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

The Pirate Hunter said:


> To address the other situation, I always hated when someone trys to use the Yonkou title to claim superiority over another top tier. Like many have mentioned before, the captains strength isn't the only factor in becoming a Yonkou. If I were to give a strong guy a castle, a strong army, and land, what would he be? An emporer. If I were to take it away, what would he be? A fxcking strong guy. Are you telling me, if I were to replace the captain on Big Mom and Kaido's crew with Mihawk, Kuzan, or Sakazuki, they wouldn't be Yonkou crews? Are you telling me they wouldn't stalemate Shanks and Teach also? The intimidation factor carried by the Yonkou's doesn't stem soley from the captain's strength. It also come from it's military might. Many people seem to misinterpret the intimidation factor of the Yonkou as the captains strength. I talked about it here



So much this
WB would not invade Marineford by himself, he brings his entire crew and armada with him. 
Shanks would not declare ending the war unless he brings his crew him. 

People always go Shanks ended the war, lets see him try that by himself and then what happens.  
This is why Shanks states "*WE* will fight all of you" 

And it actually makes Mihawk all the more impressive, as he is the only person in this manga with two highly renowned world titles all as a result of his own strength. 

Every Shichibukai  so far has been shown to be a part of an organization or have subordinates that work for them .


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## convict (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Given the information from the manga it is more logical to conclude Shanks would win.
> -Successor to Roger, Mentor to Luffy.
> -Able to duel with Mihawk in the past.
> -Clash's with WB and splits sky with him (then WSM).
> ...



I don't have issue with a lot of your reasoning but at the bolded, do you feel that this is because Mihawk is intimidated by him?


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

convict said:


> I don't have issue with a lot of your reasoning but at the bolded, do you feel that this is because Mihawk is intimidated by him?



Honestly, idk. I just find it weird that Oda has Mihawk act as such. It's ridiculously clear Shanks didn't lose power after losing his arm, yet Mihawk cancels all duels. Given Shanks personality I highly doubt he was the one to suggest such a thing. Then Mihawk is all gung Ho about testing himself, and even leaving it up to fate as to if he kills his protege in the name of duty. He watches everything go down in MF, Ace dying, WB dying, BB defiling his body, akainu wildin out, etc. But once Shanks comes, Oda explictly shows us Mihawk leaving. Citing he agreed to fight WB not Shanks. 

I'm not saying he's scared, I'm just saying it's showing some sort of vulnerability in Mihawk's game. The loner, who honorably cuts down anyone in his way without holding back (Zoro, Random Okama, Luffy), and seeks to test his strength vs *Old, sick WB* , stops dueling with Shanks as he becomes a Yonko? Because he lost an arm?

Imo, he's either afraid of the possibility shanks could possibly beat him with one arm, or he's mad at Shanks for betting on Luffy at the cost of fulfilling his natural potential. Idk. It's just something I feel needs to be addressed as Oda is deliberately portraying it this way.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> . It'd be more logical to say Amazing Swordsmanship + Top 3 Haki (with the possibility of other skills) > Top 1 Swordsmanship + Great Haki.



No its wouldn't, that's just your opinion mate. 

I can easily turn it around and state that Top 1 Swordsmanship ( with the possibility of other skills) + Great Haki > Top Haki + Great Swordsmanship

At this point its all an assumption on what Shanks abilities are, same with Mihawk as we have never seen them truly tested and use their full abilities.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Honestly, idk. I just find it weird that Oda has Mihawk act as such. It's ridiculously clear Shanks didn't lose power after losing his arm, yet Mihawk cancels all duels. Given Shanks personality I highly doubt he was the one to suggest such a thing. Then Mihawk is all gung Ho about testing himself, and even leaving it up to fate as to if he kills his protege in the name of duty. He watches everything go down in MF, Ace dying, WB dying, BB defiling his body, akainu wildin out, etc. But once Shanks comes, Oda explictly shows us Mihawk leaving. Citing he agreed to fight WB not Shanks.
> 
> I'm not saying he's scared, I'm just saying it's showing some sort of vulnerability in Mihawk's game. The loner, who honorably cuts down anyone in his way without holding back (Zoro, Random Okama, Luffy), and seeks to test his strength vs *Old, sick WB* , stops dueling with Shanks as he becomes a Yonko? Because he lost an arm?
> 
> Imo, he's either afraid of the possibility shanks could possibly beat him with one arm, or he's mad at Shanks for betting on Luffy at the cost of fulfilling his natural potential. Idk. It's just something I feel needs to be addressed as Oda is deliberately portraying it this way.



I think this post by Unclear Justice is cool theory on why Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Furinji Saiga said:


> No its wouldn't, that's just your opinion mate.
> 
> I can easily turn it around and state that Top 1 Swordsmanship + Great Haki > Top Haki + Great Swordsmanship


Shanks swordsmanship is obviously very close to Mihawk, as they dueled *evenly* in their early careers. 

Nothing suggest Mihawk is as close to the top in Haki, as opposed to Shanks skill with a sword.

Also Haki has more of a symbolic portrayal behind it given Roger had the strongest COC. Shanks having that in common with Roger, and being the person he wanted to succeed him speaks volumes about Shanks portrayal.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Furinji Saiga said:


> I think this post by Unclear Justice is cool theory on why Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks



Doubt it. That was early in Mihawk's career, and as we know Shanks didn't really get much weaker. I think WB even claims this. 

If Mihawk was willing to slash at Sick old WB to test his skill, I don't see why he wouldn't give Shanks the time of day.

also Mental blocks usually indicate weakness. Imo Mihawk's behavior is much more indicative of being afraid to lose, than afraid to win.


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## trance (Jan 20, 2015)

I agree with TPH's assessment on what makes an Emperor an Emperor. If it were solely the captain's power that allowed them to retain said titles, then what need is there for a crew? Even Krieg - for all his hubris - admitted he needed his crew if he wanted even the slightest hope at making it through the Grand Line. Are the Emperors powerful? Obviously. They're some of the mightiest in the world. That much makes sense. However, this by no means correlates to them being invulnerable beasts who can solo 1/3 of the Three Great Powers.


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## Mike S (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Given the information from the manga it is more logical to conclude Shanks would win.
> -Successor to Roger, Mentor to Luffy.
> -Able to duel with Mihawk in the past.
> -Clash's with WB and splits sky with him (then WSM).
> ...



Like I said, I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter. I was just stating where I stand on the subject and that arguments can be made for both sides.

I don't really want to get into semantics with the "WSS" title but I personally think haki is an aspect already factored into the title. I talked about it here:


The Pirate Hunter said:


> *Haki isn't an compulsory requirement to become a swordsman but it is a compulsory requirement to become the WSS. For example, you don't need exceptional speed or power to become a swordsman but there is a certain level of speed and power that's a requisite for the WSS title. If you are a swordsman on the path to WSS, eventually Haki would become mandatory for you to continue your journey.*
> 
> I understand the analogies that are being brought up in this thread but they're too extreme. Mihawk may not be the physically strongest character in the One Piece verse but he is still a top-tier. There is no one in the One Piece verse that could outclass Mihawk in physical stats to the point that it becomes comparable to a child vs an adult. If Mihawk faced an opponent that was physically stronger than him, in a sword fight---then Mihawk's skill with a sword along with his own physical stats would be enough to make-up for the difference in physical strength. Mihawk has reached a level in skill and physical stats where he is the undisputed strongest character with a sword.



I view haki as a similar stat to speed, power, etc. Speed, power, and haki aren't required to be considered a swordsman, but a certain level of each is required to be considered the "WSS".


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Yoko hype obviously has alot to do with one crews. But this speaks volumes about the people able to command such a mass group of powerful as their suborinates. It's the thing that makes Luffy so special, it's why Ace clung so hard to WB, it's Roger's crew was the best. It's why Doflamingo think he can kill Fuji (whether by underhanded methods or with his whole group), and was putting on a front in Aokiji's face, but shit's his pants at Kaido. (not saying Kaido > Admirals, just talking about their portrayal)


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

The Pirate Hunter said:


> I view haki as a similar stat to speed, power, etc. Speed, power, and haki aren't required to be considered a swordsman, but a certain level of each is required to be considered the "WSS".


The problem is not everyone is a swordsman. Alot of top Tiers are Devil Fruit users, or Haki specialist with other asissting fighting styles. Shanks is being portrayed as the plateua of Top tier Haki potential, and everybody needs Haki to successfully compete with Top Tiers. There seems to be a large gap between Mihawk and most other swordsman, while Haki users make up every position in the top tier slots.

That is why it speaks more to me that Shanks is a Haki Master, and why Mihawk being WSS doesn't necessarily make his Haki better than another top tier.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Shanks swordsmanship is obviously very close to Mihawk, as they dueled *evenly* in their early careers.
> 
> Nothing suggest Mihawk is as close to the top in Haki, as opposed to Shanks skill with a sword.
> 
> Also Haki has more of a symbolic portrayal behind it given Roger had the strongest COC. Shanks having that in common with Roger, and being the person he wanted to succeed him speaks volumes about Shanks portrayal.



Dueled a long time ago, and Shanks has lost an arm afterwards.  
We don't even know if Mihawk had the title during the time of their rivalry. 
We have no idea where current Shanks swordsmanship stands in comparison to current Mihawks
All we know is currently Mihawk is the WSS and Shanks is a Yonko


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Dueled along time ago, and Shanks has lost an arm afterwards.
> We don't even know if Mihawk had the title during the time of their rivalry.
> We have no idea where current Shanks swordsmanship stands in comparison to current Mihawks
> All we know is currently Mihawk is the WSS and Shanks is a Yonko



They dueled as both were rising to their primes. So Mihawk was obviously well versed in swordplay at the time, and their specific duels shook the grand line.

Overall Imo Shanks just has the better portrayal.


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## trance (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Doubt it. That was early in Mihawk's career, and as we know Shanks didn't really get much weaker. I think WB even claims this.
> 
> If Mihawk was willing to slash at Sick old WB to test his skill, I don't see why he wouldn't give Shanks the time of day.
> 
> also Mental blocks usually indicate weakness. Imo Mihawk's behavior is much more indicative of being afraid to lose, than afraid to win.



This is purely my opinion but I think that MIhawk no longer has any interest in dueling Shanks because he doesn't consider him a swordsman anymore and hence, no longer fit to be a rival. I mean, I would think it would be extremely difficult for That doesn't necessarily correlate to Shanks being weaker than him but just not a swordsman. I think this is also why he shows so much interest in Zoro; he sees in him potential as a swordsman enough to fill that void Shanks left 12 years ago.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

trance said:


> This is purely my opinion but I think that MIhawk no longer has any interest in dueling Shanks because he doesn't consider him a swordsman anymore and hence, no longer fit to be a rival. I mean, I would think it would be extremely difficult for That doesn't necessarily correlate to Shanks being weaker than him but just not a swordsman. I think this is also why he shows so much interest in Zoro; he sees in him potential as a swordsman enough to fill that void Shanks left 12 years ago.



That doesn't make much sense IMO. Shanks clearly still uses his sword in combo with his fighting style. If he can clash with WB and Akainu there is no reason for Mihawk to baselessly believe such. It doesn't explain why he specifically refuses to fight Shanks either. As I mentioned he was fine with attacking WB, and even more so with Shanks protege. Plus Mihawk is willing to fight people like Vista, Mr. 1, Okama, and pre zoro, who he most likely knows are not anywherenear his league (barring Vista) and weaker than Shanks.

There is also the fact that some styles of swordsmanship revolve around using one hand, like Cavendish. Shanks uses a Saber also which like a Rapier is a one handed blade. So losing an arm in of itself didn't necessarily effect his swordsmanship, unless Shanks was left handed lol.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> They dueled as both were rising to their primes. So Mihawk was obviously well versed in swordplay at the time, and their specific duels shook the grand line.
> 
> Overall Imo Shanks just has the better portrayal.




Well  I agree that they were very strong at the time of their duels hence why WB spoke praise of it and all that other stuff, probably similar to experienced Supernovas of their day. 


Rising superstars( in their 20's)  getting on the world stage, but I highly doubt they were anywhere near their primes at that time. I'm sure current Mihawk/Shanks would beat their past selves pretty handily.  

that's cool imo they are equal, or as Trance stated something similar to an extreme difficulty battle similar to Akaunu/Aokiji


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Furinji Saiga said:


> Well  I agree that they were very strong at the time of their duels hence why WB spoke praise of it and all that other stuff, probably similar to experienced Supernovas of their day.
> 
> 
> Rising superstars( in their 20's)  getting on the world stage, but I highly doubt they were anywhere near their primes at that time. I'm sure current Mihawk/Shanks would beat their past selves pretty handily.
> ...



Nothing wrong with that opinion. IMO Mihawk is the zoro to Shank's Luffy. So the gap is pretty negligible.


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## Mike S (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> That is why it speaks more to me that Shanks is a Haki Master, and why Mihawk being WSS doesn't necessarily make his Haki better than another top tier.



I'm not saying Mihawk's Haki is better than Shanks' haki, I just think haki is already factored into the title. Shanks may have better haki than Mihawk but that doesn't mean he's superior. Hakuba is likely faster than Zoro; would you say due to his superior speed, he's a stronger swordsman than Zoro? No because Zoro makes up for it in other areas. Read the bottom of the quote in my last post. I also talked about it there.

Also I always took Doflamingo's fear of Kaido as a testament to Kaido's violent personality along with his military might. Though Fujitora is an admiral and has the WG backing him, he can't just order the Marines to rape Doflamingo. Fujitora's restricted by the law, and due to Doflamingo's heritage, it's much easier to deal with Fujitora than it is to deal with an unrestricted pirate army that doesn't give a fxck.


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## trance (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> That doesn't make much sense IMO. Shanks clearly still uses his sword in combo with his fighting style. If he can clash with WB and Akainu there is no reason for Mihawk to baselessly believe such. It doesn't explain why he specifically refuses to fight Shanks either. As I mentioned he was fine with attacking WB, and even more so with Shanks protege. Plus Mihawk is willing to fight people like Vista, Mr. 1, Okama, and pre zoro, who he most likely knows are not anywherenear his league (barring Vista) and weaker than Shanks.



It may have something to do with being complacent with his ranking in comparison to Shanks; that he feels has nothing left to prove against him. It's really touch and go with why exactly Mihawk didn't wanna fight Shanks and really, no one opinion is any more right than another with the info we have. I was just trying to offer my sentiments on the situation. 



> There is also the fact that some styles of swordsmanship revolve around using one hand, like Cavendish. Shanks uses a Saber also which like a Rapier is a one handed blade. So losing an arm in of itself didn't necessarily effect his swordsmanship, unless Shanks was left handed lol.



Shanks actually is - or was - a lefty. So, I'd think losing your dominant hand would affect your fighting style.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

The Pirate Hunter said:


> I'm not saying Mihawk's Haki is better than Shanks' haki, I'm just saying I think haki is already factored into the title. Shanks may have better haki than Mihawk but that doesn't mean he's superior. Hakuba is likely faster than Zoro; would you say due to his superior speed, he's a stronger swordsman than Zoro? No because Zoro makes up for it in other areas. Read the bottom of the quote in my last post. I also talked about it there.


I know but my point was something along the lines of this.
Shanks:
Base Stats: Top Tier
Haki: Top of Top Tier
Swordsmanship: Top of Top tier (given the people he's sword clashed with)

Mihawk: 
Base Stats - Top tier
Haki: Top Tier
Swordsmanship: Top of Top Tier



> Also I always took Doflamingo's fear of Kaido as a testament to Kaido's violent personality along with his military might. Though Fujitora is an admiral and has the WG backing him, he can't just order the Marines to rape Doflamingo. Fujitora's restricted by the law, and due to Doflamingo's heritage, it's much easier to deal with Fujitora than it is to deal with an unrestricted pirate army that doesn't give a fxck.


Yeah true that is a big part of it. I always thought this too. But Dofla made it seem like Kaido himself would walk up to him and disembowel him lol.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

trance said:


> It may have something to do with being complacent with his ranking in comparison to Shanks; that he feels has nothing left to prove against him. It's really touch and go with why exactly Mihawk didn't wanna fight Shanks and really, no one opinion is any more right than another with the info we have. I was just trying to offer my sentiments on the situation.


I wasn't chastizing you, just saying that wouldn't make sense to me, but yeah it's really unclear right now. Just weird that Shanks seems to give no fucks, and lives his life, while Mihawk childishly gives him the cold shoulder. 





> Shanks actually is - or was - a lefty. So, I'd think losing your dominant hand would affect your fighting style.


Touche , but it seems he's adapted quite well


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## Sabox (Jan 20, 2015)

Mihawk solos that pleb


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## trance (Jan 20, 2015)

I mostly agree with Dr. White's assessment of Mihawk and Shanks' ranking in comparison to each other. 

I've always thought that Mihawk is the more qualified bearer of the title but that doesn't _necessarily_ mean he's stronger than Shanks. As the title seems to indicate, swordsmanship skill should encompass a significant fraction of that swordsman's strength and right now, Mihawk undoubtedly has the best feat of pure, refined swordsmanship. 

Now, Shanks most likely still retains an extremely formidable level of swordsmanship skill but I think he hit a plateau while Mihawk continued to advance. However, why I think Shanks is the stronger of the two is because of his greater stats and Haki. I don't think those two areas are leagues above Mihawk's - only marginally so - but enough that he is still better in both. However, with Mihawk's slightly lesser but overall comparable stats/Haki and greater swordsmanship, I'd think that makes him the qualified bearer of the title. He simply has the better credentials on his resume if you will.


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## Unclear Justice (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Doubt it. That was early in Mihawk's career, and as we know Shanks didn't really get much weaker. I think WB even claims this.
> 
> If Mihawk was willing to slash at Sick old WB to test his skill, I don't see why he wouldn't give Shanks the time of day.
> 
> also Mental blocks usually indicate weakness. Imo Mihawk's behavior is much more indicative of being afraid to lose, than afraid to win.



Just to add something to my theory because it has been brought up:

Mihawk's main story purpose is being the personification of Zoro's goal so he knows when he achieved it. Mihawk has shown a clear interest in Zoro becoming stronger, he even encouraged Zoro to surpass him. This indicates that he wants a swordsman to exist that is on his level meaning someone where he has to go all out and where the fight can end either way. 

The theory of Mihawk being afraid of losing to another swordsman clearly contradicts this. Therefore Mihawk not fighting Shanks because he is afraid of losing makes no sense especially if we consider that they fought before multiple times. If Mihawk really would have that kind of mindset he should have challenged Shanks after he lost his arm and not stop fighting him.

Since I already stated that Mihawk seemingly has no problem fighting swordsmen in general - even those he could lose to (EOS Zoro). Mihawk not fighting Shanks has to be directly connected to him losing an arm. Mihawk seems not like the kind of guy who really would discriminate people in such a way like he stated why he doesn't fight Shanks. That's why I believe Mihawk not wanting to win like this is the way to go. Whether or not he is right on estimating Shanks' power after his loss is not important. 

What Furinji quoted from me gives a possible explanation relating to Mihawk's unknown backstory and would add some depth to him.


I enjoy the current discussion though I have to say.


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## Freechoice (Jan 20, 2015)

Unclear Justice said:


> Just to add something to my theory because it has been brought up:
> 
> Mihawk's main story purpose is being the personification of Zoro's goal so he knows when he achieved it. Mihawk has shown a clear interest in Zoro becoming stronger, he even encouraged Zoro to surpass him. This indicates that he wants a swordsman to exist that is on his level meaning someone where he has to go all out and where the fight can end either way.
> 
> ...


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 20, 2015)

Unclear Justice said:


> Just to add something to my theory because it has been brought up:
> 
> Mihawk's main story purpose is being the personification of Zoro's goal so he knows when he achieved it. Mihawk has shown a clear interest in Zoro becoming stronger, he even encouraged Zoro to surpass him. This indicates that he wants a swordsman to exist that is on his level meaning someone where he has to go all out and where the fight can end either way.
> 
> ...



Unclear Justice Solo's


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## Mike S (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> I know but my point was something along the lines of this.
> Shanks:
> Base Stats: Top Tier
> Haki: Top of Top Tier
> ...



Ok, I see. On a general scale, I guess Shanks comes out on top, however on a miniscule scale I think Mihawk edges Shanks enough in swordsmanship which makes up for the haki gap. If Shanks shows another fighting style, i'll have no problem putting him ahead of Mihawk, I just can't outright put him ahead of Mihawk because of haki alone, as I think it is already factored into the title. If it's not, then that means Zoro wouldn't even need Haki to defeat Mihawk - which I find ridiculous - and if he uses haki during their battle, he would be cheating.


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## Kaiser (Jan 20, 2015)

The yonkos are the Don Krieg of the new world. Don Krieg was considered the most powerful pirate of East Blue because of his massive armada, but overall Arlong was considered individually stronger. Same thing applies to Yonko Shanks and Mihawk most likely


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## Infinite Darkness (Jan 20, 2015)

By hype, there is no stronger character than Kaido in OP at the moment so i will go with Kaido.


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## jNdee~ (Jan 20, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> The yonkos are the Don Krieg of the new world. Don Krieg was considered the most powerful pirate of East Blue because of his massive armada, but overall Arlong was considered individually stronger. Same thing applies to Yonko Shanks and Mihawk most likely



Lol. The yonkous and krieg are nothing alike.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 20, 2015)

People taking a Mihawk vs Shanks discussion way to seriously.

Anything you can think of has already been thought off and spammed online many, many, many times. The fact still stays the same Mihawk>Shanks 

Also whats with this Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks crap anyway? I don't recall Shanks searching for Mihawk and Mihawk going im not going to fight you bitch and running away. Mihawk and Shanks are friends and Shanks came to stop the war not fight Mihawk, So why would Mihawk fight Shanks why should he even be expected to? 

And when they first met Shanks was also not challenging. It went like this (Shanks)whats up bro you came for a fight. (Mihawk) Nah bro i don't have time to fight crippled ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".). Typical friend banter nothing more.  Call me up when Shanks actually tries to fight Mihawk and Mihawk says no thanks in a non-trolly fashion.


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## Captain Altintop (Jan 20, 2015)

Mihawk's being afraid to lose ??? Hahaha ....

Funny Dr. White, you seem to interpret him being afraid just because he refused to fight an 1-armed man ?


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## Orca (Jan 20, 2015)

trance said:


> I mostly agree with Dr. White's assessment of Mihawk and Shanks' ranking in comparison to each other.
> 
> I've always thought that Mihawk is the more qualified bearer of the title but that doesn't _necessarily_ mean he's stronger than Shanks. As the title seems to indicate, swordsmanship skill should encompass a significant fraction of that swordsman's strength and right now, Mihawk undoubtedly has the best feat of pure, refined swordsmanship.
> 
> Now, Shanks most likely still retains an extremely formidable level of swordsmanship skill but I think he hit a plateau while Mihawk continued to advance. *However, why I think Shanks is the stronger of the two is because of his greater stats and Haki.* I don't think those two areas are leagues above Mihawk's - only marginally so - but enough that he is still better in both. However, with Mihawk's slightly lesser but overall comparable stats/Haki and greater swordsmanship, I'd think that makes him the qualified bearer of the title. He simply has the better credentials on his resume if you will.



From what I understand, you're saying that Mihawk is more skilled but Shanks would win because of better stats and Haki. Following the same logic, Whitebeard is the most skilled fighter but Could lose to someone else if they have better stats and Haki?


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> so whats with this Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks crap anyway? I don't recall Shanks searching for Mihawk and Mihawk going im not going to fight you bitch and running away.


That's because Mihawk ran away before that was possible.

On a serious note, Shanks wasn't there to fight anyone but end a war so why would he pick a fight with anyone?



> Mihawk and Shanks are friends and Shanks came to stop the war not fight Mihawk, So why would Mihawk fight Shanks why should he even be expected to?


Because he was fighting fine for the WG just seconds before hand.

Also if they're such good friends why did Mihawk try to kill Luffy?


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## barreltheif (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Honestly, idk. I just find it weird that Oda has Mihawk act as such. It's ridiculously clear Shanks didn't lose power after losing his arm, yet Mihawk cancels all duels.





Dr. White said:


> Doubt it. That was early in Mihawk's career, and as we know Shanks didn't really get much weaker. I think WB even claims this.





Shanks lost an arm without anything to compensate. He unquestionably got weaker. There is absolutely nothing suggesting otherwise. If you disagree, provide evidence.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Shanks lost an arm without anything to compensate. He unquestionably got weaker. There is absolutely nothing suggesting otherwise. If you disagree, provide evidence.



-He was still down to fight Mihawk.

-He blocked a Magma Fist from Akainu.

-Split the Sky against WB. WB claims Shanks didn't lose any strength for betting on Luffy.


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## Coruscation (Jan 20, 2015)

I'm quite sure Mihawk doesn't fight Shanks out of a mutual respect for his choices, and because he knows a fight simply between them wouldn't be what it once was.

He knows Shanks' heart wouldn't be in it anymore. He lost his arm and placed his bets on the new era instead. Fighting Shanks as he is now wouldn't be a satisfying conclusion to their long history of duels. Not because of a lack of strength but because of a lack of will. That's simply not the kind of opponent that thrills Mihawk. An opponent like Zoro is, one that will put 110% and then some into it. You could tell how happy he was to meet someone with that kind of high burning flame. Shanks' fire no longer burns for swordsmanship duels, regardless of what else it may burn for.


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## Venom (Jan 20, 2015)

I think Unclear Justice made a really good point about the "Mihawk fears to fight Shanks" notion which some people persistently bring up in each debate.
Couldn't say it any better. Haven't seen it any better.


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## barreltheif (Jan 20, 2015)

Zοrο said:


> I think Unclear Justice made a really good point about the "Mihawk fears to fight Shanks" notion which some people persistently bring up in each debate.
> Couldn't say it any better. Haven't seen it any better.




I always thought the whole "Mihawk running from Shanks" thing was sort of a joke that Shanks fans like to bring up? Similar to Zoro downplayers showing Zoro face down in the snow, or Shanks downplayers bringing up Shanks losing an arm to a fodder.





Dr. White said:


> -He was still down to fight Mihawk.
> -He blocked a Magma Fist from Akainu.
> -Split the Sky against WB. *WB claims Shanks didn't lose any strength for betting on Luffy.*




Where did WB say this? Give me a link or concede.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

Coruscation said:


> I'm quite sure Mihawk doesn't fight Shanks out of a mutual respect for his choices, and because he knows a fight simply between them wouldn't be what it once was.


Mihawk's impression of Shanks ability has little to do with the portrayal between them objectively (from a meta standpoint) especially given Shanks ability to duke it out with most Top Tiers.

Maybe from a swordsmanship only approach, but as I said earlier Mihawk isn't interested in fighting swordsman only. He likes to test his abilities to the fullest, hence his test of WB to measure the gap between them. Not only was WB focused on getting his son back, but he was literally sick and way past prime (which I understand for WB is still top tier).

Nothing suggest Shanks heart wasn't in it either.



> Fighting Shanks as he is now wouldn't be a satisfying conclusion to their long history of duels. Not because of a lack of strength but because of a lack of will. That's simply not the kind of opponent that thrills Mihawk.


But Shanks still has a bunch of will, hence why his CoC is still one of the best if not the best. He had just as much will as WB (who Mihawk later wanted to test) evidenced by their equal clash of Will.



> An opponent like Zoro is, one that will put 110% and then some into it.


Solely when it comes to swordsmanship. 



> You could tell how happy he was to meet someone with that kind of high burning flame. Shanks' fire no longer burns for swordsmanship duels, regardless of what else it may burn for.


If Mihawk didn't test out WB, I'd be inclined to agree.

@Barrel 
-I looked and apparently the Wiki was wrong. WB didn't say that, Oda did in one of the DB's. So i half concede that one point, but not the argument in entirety.


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## barreltheif (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> @Barrel
> -I looked and apparently the Wiki was wrong. WB didn't say that, Oda did in one of the DB's. So i half concede that one point, but not the argument in entirety.




Oda didn't say that in a databook. There has never, ever even been the slightest implication that Shanks didn't lose strength from losing an arm. Not from a character, not from the narrator, not in the databook, not in an SBS, not in an interview. If you disagree, provide a link or concede.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Oda didn't say that in a databook. There has never,* ever even been the slightest implication that Shanks didn't lose strength* from losing an arm. Not from a character, not from the narrator, not in the databook, not in an SBS, not in an interview. If you disagree, provide a link or concede.



From a portrayal standpoint, how does Shanks go from dueling a much younger (and presumably weaker) Mihawk, to clashing with the Top of Top Tiers, if he lost strength from 24 years ago? Insert Logic here.

Or is Oda trying to say 2 arms younger Shanks > Current Shanks? So 2 arm Shanks > old WB? 2 arm shanks presumably stomps all top tiers, since he can beat most now with one arm? I'm not understanding your argument.

Did he lose swordsmanship ability? Debatable. I'd say yes, since he was left handed. But did he lose power from that time? Obviously not.

Also I am looking for the Databook Statement since OP Databook his harder to find than Naruto.


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## barreltheif (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> From a portrayal standpoint, how does Shanks go from dueling a much younger (and presumably weaker) Mihawk, to clashing with the Top of Top Tiers, if he lost strength from 24 years ago? Insert Logic here.
> Or is Oda trying to say 2 arms younger Shanks > Current Shanks? So 2 arm Shanks > old WB? 2 arm shanks presumably stomps all top tiers, since he can beat most now with one arm? I'm not understanding your argument.
> Did he lose swordsmanship ability? Debatable. I'd say yes, since he was left handed. But did he lose power from that time? Obviously not.
> Also I am looking for the Databook Statement since OP Databook his harder to find than Naruto.




Why are you bringing up 24 years ago? I'm not really following what you're trying to say, so instead of trying to reply, I'll just tell you what I think.

Shanks and Mihawk dueled regularly in their teens and 20s. They became stronger as a result. They were also both swordsmen. By the time Shanks was 27 and Mihawk was 31, they were both most likely solidly admiral level. The strongest man called their duels "legendary". They were damn strong, and they were roughly equal in strength.

Then Shanks lost an arm. This made Shanks a little bit weaker, meaning that Mihawk was a little bit stronger than Shanks. Mihawk then became disinterested in fighting Shanks, because if Mihawk beat Shanks, it would only be because of Shanks' missing arm. It wouldn't be a satisfying victory. Remember that Mihawk stated explicitly that he's not interested in fighting a one armed swordsman.

Mihawk then solidified his position as the strongest swordsman, while Shanks claimed several islands in the New World, becoming a yonkou. They may have each gotten a little bit stronger during this time, but Mihawk's slight lead remained, and Mihawk continued to be the strongest swordsman.

Obviously, I'm not saying that everything here is fact. But something close to this is by far the most likely scenario.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> ]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 20, 2015)

Unclear Justice said:


> Just to add something to my theory because it has been brought up:
> 
> Mihawk's main story purpose is being the personification of Zoro's goal so he knows when he achieved it. Mihawk has shown a clear interest in Zoro becoming stronger, he even encouraged Zoro to surpass him. This indicates that he wants a swordsman to exist that is on his level meaning someone where he has to go all out and where the fight can end either way.
> 
> ...




Good post. I agree that there is no way Mihawk would want to shame his friend Shanks by beating him in his current pitiful state


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## barreltheif (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> WB claimed there clashes were 22 years prior to the start of the series. Meaning Shanks was 25 at the time. Shanks in chapter 1 is 27 (around the time he loses his arm).




Just how many times are you going to misquote WB? WB absolutely did not say at all. He said that Shanks was an apprentice on Roger's ship 22 years ago.
Your math is wrong too. 22 years before the start of the series, Shanks was 15. You think that Shanks had his legendary duels with Mihawk when he was _15_?




> So then you think 20 something year old Mihawk could evenly clash with WB?




I certainly think that a 31 year old Mihawk, who had his legendary duels with Shanks, can clash with Whitebeard and ultimately give him a good fight. In his mid or late 20s? Probably? I don't know about younger than that.




> Becuase by your logic both Shanks and Mihawk were at their peak, then Shanks lost an arm and got weaker. Remaining that way since he was already at his prime. By that logic Shanks would perform much better than he has with 1 arm in the series. Since he is already a bonified Top Tier, are you suggesting that 2 arm shanks would be demolishing top tiers, or beating them substantially easier?




Did you read my post? I think that Shanks was solidly admiral level, got slightly weaker from losing an arm (but was still probably admiral level), and then most likely got slightly stronger again.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> Just how many times are you going to misquote WB? WB absolutely did not say at all. He said that Shanks was an apprentice on Roger's ship 22 years ago.


Dat speed reading.


> Your math is wrong too. 22 years before the start of the series, Shanks was 15. You think that Shanks had his legendary duels with Mihawk when he was _15_?


And I'm a Neuroscience major  Thanks for the catch.





> Did you read my post? I think that Shanks was solidly admiral level, got slightly weaker from losing an arm (but was still probably admiral level), and then most likely got slightly stronger again.


Well yeah okay then I agree. Shanks most likely orignally was a swordsman with better haki than most. He lost his arm went down (a bit) ins swordsmanship, and had to re learn his way. I also think in those 10 years, Shanks faced much greater threats (fighting the ebst crews, and possible PK contenders) while Mihawk's best challenge (the best next known swordsman being Vista) dwindled away.

The way Oda portrayed Shanks crew at East Blue (in both presence, and looks) is much different than the crew we saw at MF.

But yeah, after this many back and forths about Mihawk and Shanks (a topic I care little for), we'll have to agree to disagree until Oda clarifies.

As long as you don't think Mihawk can pwn Shanks or beat him with anything other than Extreme diff, than we good.


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## Venom (Jan 20, 2015)

barreltheif said:


> I always thought the whole "Mihawk running from Shanks" thing was sort of a joke that Shanks fans like to bring up? Similar to Zoro downplayers showing Zoro face down in the snow, or Shanks downplayers bringing up Shanks losing an arm to a fodder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the "MH refuses to fight Shanks" argument.
They don't really say that Mihawk fears Shanks
But they imply it.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 20, 2015)

Dr. White said:


> Dat speed reading.
> 
> And I'm a Neuroscience major  Thanks for the catch.
> 
> ...



I will concede that Mihawk requires extreme diff to defeat Shanks, but I am also sure Mihawk will win in the end.


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## Dr. White (Jan 20, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> *I will concede* that Mihawk requires extreme diff to defeat Shanks, but I am also sure Mihawk will win in the end.


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## trance (Jan 20, 2015)

Luffee said:


> From what I understand, you're saying that Mihawk is more skilled but Shanks would win because of better stats and Haki



No. Mihawk is indeed the stronger swordsman but because I think Shanks no longer classifies as a swordsman. 



> Following the same logic, Whitebeard is the most skilled fighter but Could lose to someone else if they have better stats and Haki?



While I don't think Whitebeard had stronger stats/Haki than say Shanks or Garp, I do believe he was stronger than them regardless because of his DF. It not only allowed him to match those with higher stats/Haki but overtake them. 

Look at the Logia trio. Without their DFs, they'd most likely lose against say, Garp or Rayleigh but with their DFs, there's definitely an argument to be made about them being stronger.


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## Gohara (Jan 20, 2015)

The Pirate Hunter said:


> To address the other situation, I always hated when someone tried to use the Yonkou title to claim superiority over another top tier. Like many have mentioned before, the captains strength isn't the only factor in becoming a Yonkou.



It's not necessarily the title that automatically makes this the case- although it likely is a big reason- it's that Garp states Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaidou, and Big Mam are the 4 most powerful pirates at the time.  He was including all pirates, including every Yonkou crew member.

Also, this reasoning goes both ways.  It can also be said that they obtain those positions and are able to command such big crews because they are the most powerful pirates.



The Pirate Hunter said:


> Are you telling me, if I were to replace the captains of Big Mom and Kaido's crew with Mihawk, Kuzan, or Sakazuki, they wouldn't be Yonkou crews anymore?



This may very well be the case, so it doesn't really serve as evidence of the contrary.  Especially in the case of Admirals, who should have access to tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Marines- and yet still have significantly less hype than the Yonkou.


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## Ekkologix (Jan 21, 2015)

how did this guessing based on hype turned out to 8 pages?

i think Doffy will be scared from both of them lol.


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## Canute87 (Jan 21, 2015)

Ah no.

Mihawk doesn't really inspire much fear.


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## trance (Jan 21, 2015)

Whilst Mihawk is indeed one of the strongest in the world and most likely has immense presence, I don't think it's been showcased so far since most of those characters are extremely weak in comparison.


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## Crocodile Atlas (Jan 21, 2015)

Kaido defeats Mihawk with extreme difficulty, but since that's not really what this thread is about anymore, I'll take the plunge.

Shanks>Mihawk


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## Gohara (Jan 21, 2015)

I wouldn't go so far as to say Mihawk isn't feared.  All Shichibukai are feared, which is one of the main points of them being Shichibukai.  Mihawk is almost certainly the most powerful Shichibukai we've seen so far, so the same should go for him most of all.


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## WGSZoro (Jan 21, 2015)

Either way extreme diff


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## Freechoice (Jan 21, 2015)

That supposed databook entry that says Shanks didn't lose any strength is fanmade


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## Sherlōck (Jan 22, 2015)

Known Mihawk battles

- Shanks (when they were still child ) .

Known Shanks battles

- Whitebeard , Kaidou , Mihawk (when they were still child ) .


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## Canute87 (Jan 22, 2015)

Fodders don't really count though.


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## Lawliet (Jan 22, 2015)

Sherlōck said:


> Known Mihawk battles
> 
> - Shanks (when they were still child ) .
> 
> ...



Clashing once with WB is apparently a battle now
He didn't battle Kaidou, stop lying to yourself buddy.


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## Luke (Jan 22, 2015)

Why does everyone forget Vista fought Mihawk? 

That was a fight. 

If you count Jozu vs Aokiji as a fight, it makes no fucking sense to disregard Vista vs Mihawk.


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## Jeep Brah (Jan 23, 2015)

Luke said:


> Why does everyone forget Vista fought Mihawk?
> 
> That was a fight.
> 
> If you count Jozu vs Aokiji as a fight, it makes no fucking sense to disregard Vista vs Mihawk.



Mihawk didn't even look at Vista during their fight.



His eyes were litteraly focused on Luffy.


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## Luke (Jan 23, 2015)

Jeep Brah said:


> Mihawk didn't even look at Vista during their fight.
> 
> 
> 
> His eyes were litteraly focused on Luffy.



What the fuck? Yes he was looking at Vista, he briefly thought about Luffy for one panel and that was it. 

Mihawk was also the one who had to call off the fight, suggesting he couldn't have stomped Vista.


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## Gohara (Jan 23, 2015)

Mihawk was thinking about Luffy for part of the fight, and while doing so was parrying Vista's blows.  Mihawk just said that it would work for both of them to call off the fight.  I do agree that Mihawk wouldn't defeat Vista with any less than around low difficulty, but I don't think that demonstrates them to be in the same league.  Jozu fought on par with Aokiji, but the former wasn't having his blows parried by the latter while the latter was thinking about something else.


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## Gunstarvillain (Jan 23, 2015)

Prime Roger vs 2arm Shanks...
these fanfic fights are hilarious


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## Soca (Jan 23, 2015)

10 pages on a vs match with a featless opponent? Dfuq?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Jan 23, 2015)

Gunstarvillain said:


> Prime Roger vs 2arm Shanks...
> these fanfic fights are hilarious



Are you saying that Kaidou is as strong as 2arm Shanks?

Reactions: Like 1


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## featherine augustus (Nov 22, 2016)



Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Nov 22, 2016)

Commenting before the lock


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## Soca (Nov 22, 2016)

This was made when SH4L was barely active. I'll do the honours for you,  pimp


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