# Post Time Skip Luffy vs Hakuba (No time limit)



## Luis209 (Jun 4, 2014)

I wanna see where people's opinion stands right know.

Hakuba doesn't have a time limit.

Luffy just lost one of his nakama and is bloodlusted and furious.

Location: Sabaody


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 4, 2014)

Bloodlusted Luffy? Good luck to Hakuba.


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## Goomoonryong (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy high diff, there's a possibility Hakuba could end up being stronger but it'll take more than some hype from Bastille and blitzing fodder(which G2 Luffy could do just as easily) to convince me that he stands a chance against Luffy. Much less a bloodlusted Luffy.


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## Katou (Jun 4, 2014)

He dies. . badly . . 
like a dying Neferpitou


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## Firo (Jun 4, 2014)

So fodder wiping  is impressive enough to put him on Luffy's tier?


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## Gervin (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy wins, but it won't be easy.  Hakuba is an involuntary, temporary powerup for the already reasonably strong Cavendish.  It should be extremely powerful considering all of it's limitations within the manga.  Permanent Hakuba should be pretty damn strong.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jun 4, 2014)

Red Hood said:


> So fodder wiping  is impressive enough to put him on Luffy's tier?


And one of said fodder, whom Luffy fodderized while eating lunch, could react to Hakuba. That's what really seals the deal.


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## Gibbs (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy wins this Mid diff.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy gets the benefit of the doubt*(YEA THE FUCKING BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT).*

Hakuba can easily, and i stress easily be stronger then Luffy with no Time Constraints. Just not going to assume thats the case, cause this is the Monkey D. Luffy we are talking about.


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## Dunno (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy wins low-mid diff.


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## Vengeance (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy still takes it.


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## Magician (Jun 4, 2014)

I highly doubt Oda wants us to believe Hakuba's stronger than Luffy of all people.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy got this low-mid diff


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## Extravlad (Jun 4, 2014)

The idea of Luffy winning with less than high difficulty is really stupid.


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## Dellinger (Jun 4, 2014)

Lol at Luffy getting the benefit of the doubt here.


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## BlueBlackAngel (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffyyyyyyyyyyyy will win  mid diff


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## Lawliet (Jun 4, 2014)

It would probably be one hell of a fight.


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## Venom (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy Mid Diffs at worst.
I just can't see someone who barely hit Rebecca hitting Luffy at all.


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## Luis209 (Jun 4, 2014)

Venom said:


> Luffy Mid Diffs at worst.
> I just can't see someone who barely hit Rebecca hitting Luffy at all.


It was Rebecca who barely got a Hakuba's full hit.


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## Canute87 (Jun 4, 2014)

It's amazing how luffy get underestimated time and time again.


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## Venom (Jun 4, 2014)

Canute knows what's up.


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## Venom (Jun 4, 2014)

Luis209 said:


> It was Rebecca who barely got a Hakuba's full hit.



Whatever you call it.
At the end of the day he didn't hit Rebecca and only one shot some weak ass fodder.


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## Rob (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy wins, but god the Hakuba-underestimation here is stupid.


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## Coruscation (Jun 4, 2014)

It could really go either way. Hakuba is an absolute monster and the underestimation of him is a cancer on this section. He moved so fast Bartolomeo, you know the guy who fodderized a VA and won Block B convincingly, couldn't even see him, and caused the Revolutionaries' #2 fighter to comment on his incredible speed. He's _twice_ as strong as Cavendish who already proved himself to be in Luffy's general ballpark, if not necessarily all that close. He's a time-limited monster who comes out at unpredictable moments but causes absolute havoc when he does. The idea that he would be some chump who gets mid diffed by Luffy is stupid beyond belief. Luffy is Luffy, though. It would be foolish to entirely dismiss the chances of him winning in a deathmatch.

I can barely find the words to address the "but Rebecca dodged him, and Luffy fodderized her" brigade. Do none of you comprehend the difference between a half-hearted, worried Rebecca with no real fighting intent attempting to land a hit, and a fully focused and determined one attempting to dodge one? Which she still only did partially, she got graced on the helmet and that little touch almost caused her to lose consciousness. She is able to endure Diamante clubbing her right in the head but a mere grace from Hakuba's blade nearly knocks her out. Hmm. Yep, Hakuba is definitely weak.



> It's amazing how luffy get underestimated time and time again.



A thread where nearly everyone says Luffy wins with anything between low (_low_) and high diff against someone twice as powerful as Cavendish is a thread where it's "amazing how Luffy gets underestimated"? The hell Canute?


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## Canute87 (Jun 4, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> A thread where nearly everyone says Luffy wins with anything between low (_low_) and high diff against someone twice as powerful as Cavendish is a thread where it's "amazing how Luffy gets underestimated"? The hell Canute?



People say luffy winning with anything less than high difficulty is ridiculous

Luffy getting the benefit of the doubt as habuka could be and I quote "easily stronger than luffy".

I don't see why every time a new character comes about luffy has to be constantly proving himself.

It's rather depressing Coru.


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## MrWano (Jun 4, 2014)

I guess I'd go with extreme diff either way, especially since Hakuba has no time limit in this scenario. 

The Hakuba underestimation here is quite odd. Cabbage was impressive enough in his own right, and while Hakuba might not be exactly twice as strong, the difference was clearly significant. So yeah, I don't doubt for a second that this would have been a very close fight. Wouldn't surprise me if Hakuba edges out this specific scenario.


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## Coruscation (Jun 4, 2014)

> People say luffy winning with anything less than high difficulty is ridiculous
> 
> Luffy getting the benefit of the doubt as habuka could be and I quote "easily stronger than luffy".



Because it is. It's absolutely ludicrous. Cavendish / Hakuba's portrayal in the arc would not make any sense whatsoever if Luffy could beat Hakuba who is far beyond Cavendish up mid difficulty let alone a theoretical permanent Hakuba.

Are you seriously suggesting he couldn't when Cavendish is already strong enough to stop Chin's headbutt and tangle with him? How is twice that level of power not possibly above Luffy in your eyes.


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## Dellinger (Jun 4, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Because it is. It's absolutely ludicrous. Cavendish / Hakuba's portrayal in the arc would not make any sense whatsoever if Luffy could beat Hakuba who is far beyond Cavendish up mid difficulty let alone a theoretical permanent Hakuba.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting he couldn't when Cavendish is already strong enough to stop Chin's headbutt and tangle with him? How is twice that level of power not possibly above Luffy in your eyes.



Because Luffy was clearly superior to Chinjao when he used his stronger moves?

I mean Luffy could easily stop Cavendish's serious assault while being half assed and tired from fighting Chinjao.

Simply enough Cavendish hasn't shown anything that would put him at a level that would push Luffy real good.As for Hakuba,he hasn't shown anything that would give Luffy the benefit of the doubt instead of clear chances for victory.


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## Canute87 (Jun 4, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> Because it is. It's absolutely ludicrous. Cavendish / Hakuba's portrayal in the arc would not make any sense whatsoever if Luffy could beat Hakuba who is far beyond Cavendish up mid difficulty let alone a theoretical permanent Hakuba.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting he couldn't when Cavendish is already strong enough to stop Chin's headbutt and tangle with him? How is twice that level of power not possibly above Luffy in your eyes.



I can't determine how much force flat head chinjao was really generating and he wasn't exactly tangling with him afterwards, He just flipped backwards. Luffy was the one that knocked him down.

The only thing I know about Habuka is that he's significantly faster and weak characters can't see his movements.

I know not how much "stronger" he really is overall stats in that form or how well he can take a hit.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jun 4, 2014)

Luffy takes it medium-high difficulty.


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## Captain Altintop (Jun 4, 2014)

Hakuba wins imo very high diff. Luffy won't win  this bad matchup.


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## Coruscation (Jun 4, 2014)

> Because Luffy was clearly superior to Chinjao when he used his stronger moves?
> 
> I mean Luffy could easily stop Cavendish's serious assault while being half assed and tired from fighting Chinjao.



Either of which means what? That he's clearly superior to Cavendish x2? No.



> I can't determine how much force flat head chinjao was really generating



He was attacking seriously. He commended Cavendish' strength for being able to block the attack telling us it was not a fluke or result of little effort. Why do you need to nitpick sometimes instead of accepting what was shown?



> The only thing I know about Habuka is that he's significantly faster and weak characters can't see his movements.



Because Bartolomeo is such a weak character, an equivalent of Marco & Ben Beckman impressedly exclaiming how incredibly fast Hakuba is and him easily replicating the feat of Jesus Burgess doesn't tell us a ton about how we're meant to view him? Why all this hesitation about a monstrously impressive character? =/



> I know not how much "stronger" he really is overall stats in that form



But you do. Oda told you in the most explicit way possible. He wrote the words "twice as strong" in the manga referring to how much greater Hakuba is than Cav. Twice as strong is obviously not meant to be taken as a medium-small gap. It is a large gap. Hence why it went from Cav cruising comfortably but not demolishing the whole block, to utterly destroying everyone in the ring in the blink of an eye. Why keep playing the we don't know card instead of accepting the obvious?


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## Shanks (Jun 4, 2014)

If Luffy was in character it may go up to high difficulties, but we saw how a bloodlust Luffy did to Don Chinjao when he was pissed off. Let’s just say if Luffy was bloodlusted from the very beginning when fighting Don Chinjao and start throwing moves like Hawk Riffle, Thor Elephant Gun and Elephant Gatling, how long would Don Chinjao last? I think the difficulties would be the same as when Prime Chinjao vs. Prime Carp.

That said, while Hakuba is fast, I don’t see him to be that strong or durable and I believe a hawk Riffle to the face will put him down just like how Bellemy was fodderised.


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## Gibbs (Jun 4, 2014)

Hakuba's durability is an  unknown, IIRC not even Cavendish showed anything for a durability feat. (If I'm wrong here, link me to a feat of his). However, Luffy's durability has been time tested for a long time. Has Hakuba ever been hit? nope because of his short term existence. There was not enough time. Keep in mind that hakuba knocked out several tired fighters near the end of the Block D fight. None of them were fresh.


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## Dr. White (Jun 5, 2014)

I agree with Corus. It is lol worthy that Luffy destroys Hakuba, or even cavendish for that matter. Do people think Luffy can low diff Sanji? Cavendish is at least Sanji level, and Hakuba is twice as strong...

The only way I could possibly see why someone would claim such is because Luffy is bloodlusted here. Even still though, Hakuba seems to be always bloodlusted, and if he is permanent I believe it be a really close fight.


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## Freechoice (Jun 5, 2014)

People still falling for the classic One Piece hyberboles. 

Funny to see Corus falling victim to it.


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## Magician (Jun 5, 2014)

Cavendish would get low diffed by Sanji. Bart/Cavendish are no where near M3 level.


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## Canute87 (Jun 5, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> He was attacking seriously. He commended Cavendish' strength for being able to block the attack telling us it was not a fluke or result of little effort. Why do you need to nitpick sometimes instead of accepting what was shown?



Seems that I'm going to be running into some translation problems now.

Because from what I read Chinjao didn't give them any high praises.

It felt just like when people say the phrase " You're good but not good enough"

Or my favourite " He's grown....but still weak".

Luffy was the one who earned his keep and knocked his ass out when they fought.




> Because Bartolomeo is such a weak character, an equivalent of Marco & Ben Beckman impressedly exclaiming how incredibly fast Hakuba is and him easily replicating the feat of Jesus Burgess doesn't tell us a ton about how we're meant to view him? Why all this hesitation about a monstrously impressive character?



Bart said he couldn't see anything, doesn't mean he couldn't react to the level of speed as long as he knows what to look for.  Down there was pretty chaotic until the smoke cleared.  
But all that speculation aside

Rebecca was able to react it, Luffy shouldn't have an issue.

The hesitation I have comes from believing that every single other stat of Hakuba increases exponentially as his speed does, when the only thing we saw from him was speed and the only thing he is known for ....is speed.




> But you do. Oda told you in the most explicit way possible. He wrote the words "twice as strong" in the manga referring to how much greater Hakuba is than Cav. Twice as strong is obviously not meant to be taken as a medium-small gap. It is a large gap. Hence why it went from Cav cruising comfortably but not demolishing the whole block, to utterly destroying everyone in the ring in the blink of an eye. Why keep playing the we don't know card instead of accepting the obvious?



In regards to gaps

In another translation I only saw Maynard say Hakuba was stronger. If you become exponentially faster you are considered stronger.
And even to use numbers could still achieve the same result. You could assign a numerical value like 3 to Josu and Croc yet Josu wouldn't be 3 times stronger in every stat than croc some stats like his strength would be ridiculous but his base speed could be comparable. 
Shit i don't even need to go through all that, just look on luffy on how much different applying gear 2 made him overall yet his speed was what tremendously increased. Things like his durability and endurance remained the same.  Habuka is a different personality in cavendishes body, How does every stat magically increase to such exponential levels when he comes out?

I mean have you even considered that his speed is ...... a technique that he knows and cavendish doesn't?

As for the block.

Fodders are fodders.  Luffy and Chinjao kicked and punched their respective fodders out the way like trash, though I don't see what Cavendish himself was doing so impressive before he changed.


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## Shinthia (Jun 5, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> And one of said fodder, whom Luffy fodderized while eating lunch, could react to Hakuba. That's what really seals the deal.



this, so much this


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 5, 2014)

What said:


> People still falling for the classic One Piece hyberboles.
> 
> Funny to see Corus falling victim to it.




This. You really think Maynard put on his scouter and measured Hakuba's powerlevel during one of his rampages ? Hakuba is stronger then Cav, nothing more. 



Admiral Aokiji said:


> If Luffy was in character it may go up to high difficulties, but we saw how a bloodlust Luffy did to Don Chinjao when he was pissed off. Let’s just say if Luffy was bloodlusted from the very beginning when fighting Don Chinjao and start throwing moves like Hawk Riffle, Thor Elephant Gun and Elephant Gatling, how long would Don Chinjao last? I think the difficulties would be the same as when Prime Chinjao vs. Prime Carp.
> 
> That said, while Hakuba is fast, I don’t see him to be that strong or durable and I believe a hawk Riffle to the face will put him down just like how Bellemy was fodderised.





And absolutely this. Luffy tends to go up a whole tier when hes bloodlusted anyway. If this was IC Luffy i could see this fight ranging anywhere from a high diff fight to an actual loss. But with serious bloodlust i honestly expect Luffy to finish the fight in a few seconds at most.


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## Coruscation (Jun 5, 2014)

> Seems that I'm going to be running into some translation problems now.
> 
> Because from what I read Chinjao didn't give them any high praises.



He said the same thing about each of them. "You're both strong, but not enough". Cavendish entirely stopped the force of his headbutt as Luffy knocked him to the ground resulting in that praise. Of course you try to downplay both of these things so you can keep downplaying Hakuba. But that doesn't change what happened.



> Bart said he couldn't see anything, doesn't mean he couldn't react to the level of speed as long as he knows what to look for. Down there was pretty chaotic until the smoke cleared.
> But all that speculation aside



Right. You prefer speculation and dishonest argumentatioin to fact because that allows you to downplay Hakuba more.



> Rebecca was able to react it, Luffy shouldn't have an issue.
> 
> The hesitation I have comes from believing that every single other stat of Hakuba increases exponentially as his speed does



Zoro reacted to Kuma. Luffy reacted to Mihawk and Sengoku. Caesar Clown reacted to Luffy. Hyouzou reacted to G2. Hody Jones reacted to Zoro. There are more examples but you shouldn't need any. Rebecca couldn't see Hakuba either and all she managed to do was slightly shift her body to only get her helmet and not her head split open. If he had wanted to do a follow-up move she would have died instantly. Why would Oda hype Hakuba for his speed if his speed is "no issue"? Why the hell would Sabo, a Marco / Beckman equivalent in the world, exclaim how fast the guy is if the speed is "no issue"? Why would the speed be "no issue" when base Cav has no problems dodging Chinjao and Hakuba is MUCH faster? Just how much are you deliberately low-balling Cavendish to be able to arrive at these ridiculous conclusions?

Why do they need to? Why can't ludicrous speed combined with the ever-lethal fighting style of swordsmanship be enough to make him the monster that he is? You're just fabricating "problems" one after another instead of what's accepting what is being thrown in your face.



> In regards to gaps
> 
> In another translation I only saw Maynard say Hakuba was stronger.



Twice as strong is the real translation. The people at AP confirmed it back when the chapter was coming out. Again why the hell are you writing paragraph upon paragraph devoted to nitpicking exactly how his strength increases instead of accepting such an obvious piece of hype that's obviously NOT meant to be over-analyzed.



> As for the block.
> 
> Fodders are fodders.



This depressing crap again =/ Hakuba gets the same hype as Burgess by destroying the whole block in an instant. It's portrayed to the reader as incredibly impressive but it's downplayed by fans to mean nothing because uhh, fodder. How do you even know how strong the participants of block D were? If there were Sais and Ideos there what Hakuba did is ridiculously impressive. Those guys were easily Caesar level and Caesar reacted to Luffy and endured a bunch of his hits. Even if they were Hody level it's impressive.


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## Dellinger (Jun 5, 2014)

^Really?

Every guy in Luffy's block except Chinjao was a weakling compared to Luffy.And Chinjao in the end couldn't keep up with Luffy's full strength.

And nothing suggests they were Caesar level because if they were,they wouldn't be out as easily as they were.

Just take the latest chapter as example.Every legit fighter from the Colosseum crap themselves at Luffy destroying Pica's head with ease.

Unless Hakuba shows himself capable of dealing with guys that can even remotely make Luffy fight with his stronger attacks then there's no point in arguing this.Luffy is the winner here.


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## trance (Jun 5, 2014)

More Hakuba wank? 

Blitzing fodder is no reason at all to think he can beat Luffy and Rebecca was able to react to his frenzy (albeit, barely). Restrict Luffy to base form and this gets interesting.

Edit: Actually, I'm pretty sure even base Luffy could win this. He was able to react to Doffy's bloodlusted attack on Kyros when his foot was just centimeters away from his head and later dodged his "Goshikito".


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## Canute87 (Jun 5, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> He said the same thing about each of them. "You're both strong, but not enough". Cavendish entirely stopped the force of his headbutt as Luffy knocked him to the ground resulting in that praise. Of course you try to downplay both of these things so you can keep downplaying Hakuba. But that doesn't change what happened.


Yes neither luffy or Cavendish was made to look as good as you want to think with chinjao's condescending praise.  He was talking shit to luffy all through the fight in the Colosseum afterwards.  



> Zoro reacted to Kuma. Luffy reacted to Mihawk and Sengoku. Caesar Clown reacted to Luffy. Hyouzou reacted to G2. Hody Jones reacted to Zoro. There are more examples but you shouldn't need any. Rebecca couldn't see Hakuba either and all she managed to do was slightly shift her body to only get her helmet and not her head split open. If he had wanted to do a follow-up move she would have died instantly. Why would Oda hype Hakuba for his speed if his speed is "no issue"? Why the hell would Sabo, a Marco / Beckman equivalent in the world, exclaim how fast the guy is if the speed is "no issue"? Why would the speed be "no issue" when base Cav has no problems dodging Chinjao and Hakuba is MUCH faster? Just how much are you deliberately low-balling Cavendish to be able to arrive at these ridiculous conclusions?


You heard Sabo's comment that Rebecca was the only one to react to Sabo's swordplay and that it wasn't simple luck so I don't know why you want to compare it with feats that you simply write off as inconsistent.  

Chinjao isn't fast so dodging Chinjao isn't any great testament to speed.



> Why do they need to? Why can't ludicrous speed combined with the ever-lethal fighting style of swordsmanship be enough to make him the monster that he is? You're just fabricating "problems" one after another instead of what's accepting what is being thrown in your face.



So what happens when habuka gets hit by luffy? None of us know.





> Twice as strong is the real translation. The people at AP confirmed it back when the chapter was coming out. Again why the hell are you writing paragraph upon paragraph devoted to nitpicking exactly how his strength increases instead of accepting such an obvious piece of hype that's obviously NOT meant to be over-analyzed.



Yeah Writing these long paragraphs needs to stop in my old age.

Simple question.  

Where does the difficulty lie in Luffy beating Hakuba?





> This depressing crap again =/ Hakuba gets the same hype as Burgess by destroying the whole block in an instant. It's portrayed to the reader as incredibly impressive but it's downplayed by fans to mean nothing because uhh, fodder. How do you even know how strong the participants of block D were? If there were Sais and Ideos there what Hakuba did is ridiculously impressive. Those guys were easily Caesar level and Caesar reacted to Luffy and endured a bunch of his hits. Even if they were Hody level it's impressive.



Burgess isn't somebody who you'd considered discrete, ideally one surge elbow could take out the entire participants if hit in the right place, How else would Burgess finish it in an instant if not for one attack?  Luffy could have cleared out the entire colosseium with the possible exception of chinjao with one gizzly magnum. Ideos and Sais levels were simply kicked aside by luffy with utmost ease.  When you can disregard someone so easily you can sure as fuck knock them out but it wasn't necessary giving the type of person luffy is. The giant he knocked out though pissed him off because he hurt the bull.


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## Magician (Jun 5, 2014)

Just because that's the one feat Oda had Hakuba use was lolblitzing "fodder" doesn't mean that's the max he can do. I think it's silly how people can place limits on characters based on a very quick and casual exchange.

You guys place too much merit on feats while ignoring author intent and portrayal. Oda obviously wants Hakuba to be a powerhouse he even spent half a chapter talking about how strong he is. I highly doubt Oda drew that scene for us to not think Hakuba is extremely strong or impressive.

How strong he is? We don't know yet(but if I had to make a guess. I'd say seat level or pinhead Chinjao level is a fair assumption). He's obviously gonna have a reappearance into the arc when the fighting goes down and he's most likely gonna be portrayed as one of the stronger fighters.

I think you guys are underestimating him too much based on the fact that Rebecca(who specializes in CoO and speed, btw) was able to narrowly dodge his attack. Like Corus said, there's plenty of people massively weaker than Luffy who were able to react to him. That doesn't mean much. Rebecca would still get fodderized by Hakuba with the easiest of ease had he not went back to sleep.

It's not laughable to say that Hakuba could potentially give Luffy a high diff fight, especially when we haven't seen him go all out in the slightest bit.


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## Coruscation (Jun 5, 2014)

> Yes neither luffy or Cavendish was made to look as good as you want to think with chinjao's condescending praise.



The point is that Cavendish was clearly able to tangle with Chinjao. The same Chinjao that was perfectly able to take on Luffy and tank a straight Hawk Rifle with only moderate damage. The further point is that *Cavendish can only be so weak*. He would have to be a complete piece of shit compared to Luffy & Chin if someone twice as strong still gets mid diffed by Luffy. Which he's clearly not, but you keep pretending there's a legitimate chance he will turn out to be while downplaying his showings as much as possible.



> You heard Sabo's comment that Rebecca was the only one to react to Sabo's swordplay and that it wasn't simple luck so I don't know why you want to compare it with feats that you simply write off as inconsistent.
> 
> Chinjao isn't fast so dodging Chinjao isn't any great testament to speed.



Those situations weren't simple luck either. It's always a combination of factors but the underlying point in every one of them is *you can't downplay a character's strength because a weaker character "reacts" to them*. Hakuba destroyed an entire group of people several of who were giving Rebecca trouble in an instant but because the person whose entire fighting style revolves around speed and quick reflexes manages to avoid a single attack of his by the smallest possible margin you think that's suddenly a reason to start downplaying the speed and power displayed.

He's not slow either? He had zero problems handling base Luffy for an extended period of time and landing hits on him. Cavendish having no problems dodging him alongside Luffy goes to show, once again, that he can only be so weak. Which means Hakuba can only be so weak.



> So what happens when habuka gets hit by luffy? None of us know.



Which is why we also conclude Mihawk gets owned by Marco because hey, we haven't seen Mihawk take a hit so we don't know if he could endure a Marco kick. Or maybe we use more common sense than that and don't assume people have horribly inconsistent stats for no reason.



> Where does the difficulty lie in Luffy beating Hakuba?



His extreme speed and ferocious swordsmanship? Why would Luffy not have serious difficulty fighting a swordsman with speed easily on par with G2 and correspondingly powerful (remember more velocity = harder hitting attacks) strikes from a legendary sword guided by genius swordsmanship?



> Burgess isn't somebody who you'd considered discrete, ideally one surge elbow could take out the entire participants if hit in the right place, How else would Burgess finish it in an instant if not for one attack? Luffy could have cleared out the entire colosseium with the possible exception of chinjao with one gizzly magnum.



What is your point? That Luffy and Burgess are comparable to Hakuba? Yeah. That's my point too. The question is how the hell you arrive at the conclusion that someone who can't give more than mid diff to Luffy is still capable of replicating this feat? There isn't a ghost of support for that assertion.

Besides one Grizzly Magnum? Caesar could react to G3 attacks when taken off guard so why exactly wouldn't Sai or Ideo be able to dodge one?


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

> Besides one Grizzly Magnum? Caesar could react to G3 attacks when taken off guard so why exactly wouldn't Sai or Ideo be able to dodge one?


 I think you said before Sai and Ideo were even weaker than Franky, because they shouldn't be able to take on 2 executives at the same time like Franky did. Now do you think they are on "Caeser level"?


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2014)

Luffy one-shot Chinjao as soon as he wanted to -> He could one.shot Cavendish if he wanted to. Hakuba is a bit stronger, so low-mid diff seems about right.


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Luffy one-shot Chinjao as soon as he wanted to -> He could one.shot Cavendish if he wanted to. Hakuba is a bit stronger, so low-mid diff seems about right.


He one shotted Chinjao, because the latter went on a kamikaze attack. Chinjao endured hawk rifle and could probably avoid elephunt gun if he wanted.


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## Extravlad (Jun 5, 2014)

Are you seriously implying that Hakuba wouldn't be able to dodge Luffy's G3 attacks?
Luffy is lacking of firepower without the G3, he had to use it against every decent opponent (Hody,Caesar,Chinjao) I wouldn't be that confident about his ability to overcome Hakuba without landing a G3 attack.


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## Canute87 (Jun 5, 2014)

Coruscation said:


> The point is that Cavendish was clearly able to tangle with Chinjao. The same Chinjao that was perfectly able to take on Luffy and tank a straight Hawk Rifle with only moderate damage. The further point is that *Cavendish can only be so weak*. He would have to be a complete piece of shit compared to Luffy & Chin if someone twice as strong still gets mid diffed by Luffy. Which he's clearly not, but you keep pretending there's a legitimate chance he will turn out to be while downplaying his showings as much as possible.
> 
> Those situations weren't simple luck either. It's always a combination of factors but the underlying point in every one of them is *you can't downplay a character's strength because a weaker character "reacts" to them*. Hakuba destroyed an entire group of people several of who were giving Rebecca trouble in an instant but because the person whose entire fighting style revolves around speed and quick reflexes manages to avoid a single attack of his by the smallest possible margin you think that's suddenly a reason to start downplaying the speed and power displayed.
> 
> He's not slow either? He had zero problems handling base Luffy for an extended period of time and landing hits on him. Cavendish having no problems dodging him alongside Luffy goes to show, once again, that he can only be so weak. Which means Hakuba can only be so weak.



*Sigh*  Okay  you've made your point, I'll change my opinion of him.





> Which is why we also conclude Mihawk gets owned by Marco because hey, we haven't seen Mihawk take a hit so we don't know if he could endure a Marco kick. Or maybe we use more common sense than that and don't assume people have horribly inconsistent stats for no reason.



Mihawk's tenacity isn't measured in only one particular stat as he has shown that he is more than effective in all other stats than just one and his title and overall level is a big help as well.  And Marco hasn't shown any real great offensive feats that he would hurt Marco significantly not compared to men like Garp and besides Mihawk has seen the top so he must have had run ins with many different people. You can't reach the top without facing a brick wall at some point.  Who's to say Habuka actually ran into someone who could counter his speed and things like durability and endurance are required?  He's barely into the new world and just like luffy has a lot to experience.  It's similar to the comfort smoker faced especially not having to worry about enemies that could affect their fruits own natural resistance.




> His extreme speed and ferocious swordsmanship? Why would Luffy not have serious difficulty fighting a swordsman with speed easily on par with G2 and correspondingly powerful (remember more velocity = harder hitting attacks) strikes from a legendary sword guided by genius swordsmanship?


Luffy can't tank sword slashes and with every cut he receives he slows down even more.  How is luffy to beat someone like that if there isn't a weakness revealed to such an radical change in a particular stat.  What happens to habuka when luffy manages to grab or get hits on him?

If Zoro for instance was that fast with the stats he has now Luffy wouldn't stand a chance of beating him, Because Zoro has both the strength to fend of luffy and withstand a shitload of his attacks.

Is there any reason to assume habuka would need shit ton of attacks to be taken down?





> What is your point? That Luffy and Burgess are comparable to Hakuba? Yeah. That's my point too. The question is how the hell you arrive at the conclusion that someone who can't give more than mid diff to Luffy is still capable of replicating this feat? There isn't a ghost of support for that assertion.
> 
> Besides one Grizzly Magnum? Caesar could react to G3 attacks when taken off guard so why exactly wouldn't Sai or Ideo be able to dodge one?



Not about whether or not they can dodge but is the power enough to take them out.  Do you see sai or ideo incapable of dodging burgess' attacks?


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## Coruscation (Jun 5, 2014)

> I think you said before Sai and Ideo were even weaker than Franky, because they shouldn't be able to take on 2 executives at the same time like Franky did. Now do you think they are on "Caeser level"?



Franky, Sai, Ideo and Caesar are all on the same general level. I do think Franky is the overall strongest of that group partly because of his impressive portrayal against the Fighting Squad executives but the differences are small. The rest is just a difference in styles. Sai and Ideo are well balanced straight fighters. Caesar is a Logia with hax, ranged firepower and moderate stats. Franky has high strength, durability, range and firepower but lacks Haki.



> Mihawk's tenacity isn't measured in only one particular stat as he has shown that he is more than effective in all other stats than just one and his title and overall level is a big help as well.



This is just the bias that comes from knowing that Mihawk isn't going to be a glass cannon. You already know it implicitly but you make up reasons. The truth is that people's stats simply AREN'T that wildly inconsistent unless there's a _specific_ reason for it. You know like Hody and his durability.



> Who's to say Habuka actually ran into someone who could counter his speed and things like durability and endurance are required? He's barely into the new world



He's been three years in the New World =/



> Luffy can't tank sword slashes and with every cut he receives he slows down even more. How is luffy to beat someone like that if there isn't a weakness revealed to such an radical change in a particular stat. What happens to habuka when luffy manages to grab or get hits on him?
> 
> If Zoro for instance was that fast with the stats he has now Luffy wouldn't stand a chance of beating him, Because Zoro has both the strength to fend of luffy and withstand a shitload of his attacks.
> 
> Is there any reason to assume habuka would need shit ton of attacks to be taken down?



How does any of this relate to Luffy mid diffing Hakuba? I don't even know what you're trying to argue. Hakuba has G2 class speed and lethal swordsmanship, so Luffy couldn't possibly beat him unless Hakuba had a major endurance weakness, so that means Hakuba must have a major endurance weakness, and that in turn means that Luffy beats him with only mid difficulty. What? What is even going on with this reasoning?

No. There's no reason to think Hakuba would take a Zoro class beating to be brought down. But he makes up for that by being faster than Zoro. Zoro isn't slow, but he's not a crazy blitzer like Hakuba. Hakuba isn't made of wet paper, but he's no endurance monster like Zoro. See how that works? Why immediately jump to extremes and assume Hakuba has basically crap durability instead of it simply not being one of his standout stats like it is for Luffy & Zoro? His standout stats are speed and swordsmanship. By every account of the magnitude of his power available it's ridiculous to think Luffy would be able to beat him without even being pushed to high difficulty.



> Not about whether or not they can dodge but is the power enough to take them out. Do you see sai or ideo incapable of dodging burgess' attacks?



Why is "power" the only thing that matters? No one save a girl with a lot of resolve and trained to fight by Kyros could dodge *or* endure Hakuba. They dropped like flies, absolutely helpless to stop it. Sai and Ideo would get knocked out if they took a G3 move but they could probably dodge it. So that doesn't even account for how Luffy can eradicate an entire block in a split second.


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

> Franky, Sai, Ideo and Caesar are all on the same general level. I do think Franky is the overall strongest of that group partly because of his impressive portrayal against the Fighting Squad executives but the differences are small. The rest is just a difference in styles. Sai and Ideo are well balanced straight fighters. Caesar is a Logia with hax, ranged firepower and moderate stats. Franky has high strength, durability, range and firepower but lacks Haki.


You really think Franky could beat Caeser if Caeser was tangible? Where do you put Gladius?  just by curiosity.


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

Corus, what feats do we have for Hakuba's Durability?


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

I reiterate:


> Hakuba's durability is an  unknown, IIRC not even Cavendish showed  anything for a durability feat. (If I'm wrong here, link me to a feat of  his). However, Luffy's durability has been time tested for a long time.  Has Hakuba ever been hit? nope because of his short term existence.  There was not enough time. Keep in mind that hakuba knocked out several  tired fighters near the end of the Block D fight. None of them were  fresh.


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## Firo (Jun 5, 2014)

We use powerscaling for instances like this.. But it isn't always accurate.


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## Freechoice (Jun 5, 2014)

You can't emanate these sorts of match-ups entirely on feats, especially when one character has little to no feats to go by.


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## Gervin (Jun 5, 2014)

Luis209 said:


> You really think Franky could beat Caeser if Caeser was tangible? Where do you put Gladius?  just by curiosity.



Just throwing my two cents in, but I think this would depend on knowledge.  Caesar beat Luffy when Luffy didn't have any knowledge on Caesar's fruit, so if Franky were to go in blind then he would likely be taken out relatively quickly.  If Franky had full knowledge on Caesar, i can see Franky playing it smart and using his ranged attacks to take out a tangible Caesar.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 5, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Cavendish would get low diffed by Sanji. Bart/Cavendish are no where near M3 level.



A three year new world supernova that is hailed as a prodigy swordsmen is fodder to Sanji?

What drugs are you on, like seriosuly. This is almost as bad as the trolls saying usopp and franky were going to take out trebol\pica.


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## Skinny Pete (Jun 5, 2014)

Wow, Hakuba really is underestimated on these boards...

Cavendish alone proved himself to be on the same level as Chinjao and Luffy and Hakuba is _twice_ as strong as him. This can go either way.


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2014)

Skinny Pete said:


> Wow, Hakuba really is underestimated on these boards...
> 
> Cavendish alone proved himself to be on the same level as Chinjao and Luffy and Hakuba is _twice_ as strong as him. This can go either way.



No-one can be on the same level as Chinjao and Luffy, just like no-one can be on the same level as Aokiji and Smoker.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

Hakuba should take it just because it's an ability of someone stronger than Pts Luffy who, more or less, has enough experience in the new world to beat someone of Luffy's caliber in the pts. As someone mentioned, he was strong enough to stalemate Chinjao's headbutt who probably had used Haki on his headbutt to reinforce the power behind the blow of his headbutt.


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

Chinjao wasn't using his Haki when he "clashed" with Cavendish. You cannot use that little "skirmish" as evidence to back up any sort of claim. The fact is that Cavendish needed to unleash Hakuba to win Block D, (and still lost).


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> Chinjao wasn't using his Haki when he "clashed" with Cavendish. You cannot use that little "skirmish" as evidence to back up any sort of claim. *The fact is that Cavendish needed to unleash Hakuba to win Block D*, (and still lost).


That is pure specualtion.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> Chinjao wasn't using his Haki when he "clashed" with Cavendish. You cannot use that little "skirmish" as evidence to back up any sort of claim. The fact is that Cavendish needed to unleash Hakuba to win Block D, (and still lost).



You know, it's not all that easy to quote the post I said, unless it's you showing signs that you're afraid to engage in a debate against me.

First of all, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because he did not use Color of armanent by imbuing the top part of his head with black colored haki is in no way implication of him not using it. He was surely using the type of haki that shows no substance just like CoA. There are other ways in which a user can use haki and it's been shown multiple times; invisible haki. He's been shown to use haki throughout all of the fights he's been shown in and the fact that his head did not bleed  during the two altercations against two strong fighters he's been shown to fight for small period of time by getting his head hit by their attacks; his head was pierced by one of the strongest swords in the world and the one holding the sword was exceptionally strong with the ability to use haki and chinjao's head was hit by Luffy's jet pistol imbued haki. These are enough evidence that he did in fact use haki on his head. 

Furthermore, your assertions are falsified information made by you that just reinforces the notion that you did not read the one piece chapter in which introduced hakuba. Cavendish wasn't poised to use Hakuba because he was losing against fodders, it was simply an innate ability of his that arbitrary awakens from time to time.


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

Luis209 said:


> That is pure specualtion.


Until proven otherwise, it is irrefutable.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

Luis209 said:


> That is pure specualtion.



It is and he has no evidence to suggest what he just said. Of course, knowing him, he'll carry on rambling about how evidence is something not important in a debate because his words alone atone for his inability to provide evidence to his claims.


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## Typhon (Jun 5, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> It is and he has no evidence to suggest what he just said. Of course, knowing him, he'll carry on rambling about how evidence is something not important in a debate because his words alone atone for his inability to provide evidence to his claims.





Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Hakuba should take it just because it's an ability of someone stronger than Pts Luffy who, more or less, has enough experience in the new world to beat someone of Luffy's caliber in the pts. As someone mentioned, he was strong enough to stalemate Chinjao's headbutt *who probably had used Haki on his headbutt to reinforce the power behind the blow of his headbutt.*



 You serious?


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

> Until proven otherwise, it is irrefutable.


I could say the same thing.

I know for certain that you didn't see Cavendish having any difficulties while being Cavendish, during the match. Just because he pulled out Hakuba, doesn't mean he had to do that to win. You know, this guy is already strong enough to match a headbutt from Chinjao and he was the one with the best portrayal in block D.


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

Are you insinuating that Durandal is one of the strongest swords in the world when it isn't even classsified as an O Wazamono Sword or even any of the 3 lower classifications?  It was never mentioned to be of the same quality as Yoru, Shusui, Wado Ichimonji, any of the Kitetsu, or Yubarishi. 

Do your research first. Just because it is a named sword, doesn't mean it is superior, (unless otherwise stated). 

Blood isn't a good indicator of whether or not Haki was being used. Try again.

Your walls of text don't really hold much meaning, try to say what you mean shortly, instead of typing out a long winded, run-on paragraph filled with embellishment & unsupported claims.



*-Snip-*


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## Dellinger (Jun 5, 2014)

People still thinking that G3 is slow....


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> Are you insinuating that Durandal is one of the strongest swords in the world when it isn't even classsified as an O Wazamono Sword or even any of the 3 lower classifications?  It was never mentioned to be of the same quality as Yoru, Shusui, Wado Ichimonji, any of the Kitetsu, or Yubarishi.
> 
> Do your research first. Just because it is a named sword, doesn't mean it is superior, (unless otherwise stated).
> 
> ...



To begin with what I want to say, i feel compelled to firstly express that your assertions are simply speculative claims without any evidence backing your statements. Thus anything you say to convince me, or the readers will only be taken with a grain of salt. Now, to actually begin countering your comments, the first sentence of your claim is a Straw man because you've interpreted what I said about cavendish's blade being the strongest as the strongest sword among the lot of blades found in the one piece world. Cavendish's blade, regardless of what type, is among the strongest, but not the strongest. He even made the claim of it being exceptionally strong by conveying his shocked emotions towards Chinjao being able to stop the power behind the thrust of Canvendish's blade. Therefore, my comment that Canvendish's sword is one of the strongest stills stands because it's supported by the author's word that has more weighting than the contentless drivel you just spouted.

As for your second sentence. This can be attributed as a low form of argumentation, notably the Straw man rhetoric. I never said his sword was the strongest or in the same class as mihawk's sword, a high caliber sword in the saijo o wazamano class. I simply said the weapon cavendish holds is a weapon out of the ordinary of the usual generic weak blades most people wield. My comment that says Cavendish's sword is among the strongest of weapons found in the word is not to be interpreted as me saying it's the strongest. However, seeing as how it's you, someone with low comprehension, it's been already assumed by me that you'd beat up a straw man.

Yes, the top of his sword made contact with Chinjao's head which showed no signs of bleeding on chinjao's head and considering that chinjao does not have exceptionally durable skin or the ability to use tekkai to harden his skin for protection against attacks that do damage, it's obviously been implied that haki was used on his head to protect himself against cavendish's sword and Luffy's haki imbued jet pistol.

*-Snip-*



Typhon said:


> You serious?



Yes, I am serious. You have a problem with what I said? Is there a problem?


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

So in short, you are attacking the person and not the argument? Good to know.


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## Typhon (Jun 5, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Yes, I am serious. You have a problem with what I said? Is there a problem?



There's no evidence to claim Chinjao used haki in that attack. It's just speculation. For one, it was already established how hard his head was. And two, everytime an invisible coat of haki was used, it was brought up before or after the fact such as the attack on the funk brothers or when the younger one started to attack.

I don't see how you can attack him about speculation and then do the same thing.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> So in short, you are attacking the person and not the argument? Good to know.



Backpedaling now  

I did respond to your comments, by the way.

Look, I never insulted you just to not address to any of your points. I did address to each and every one of your points and had only used an ad hominem fallacy up until you started insulting me.

As the bigger person, I'll delete what I said because it'll serve no purpose looking at the context of this topic.


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## Dr. White (Jun 5, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Cavendish would get low diffed by Sanji. Bart/Cavendish are no where near M3 level.



What? You are straight blowing the M3 right now. Yeah they are the main group of protagonist and we get much more screentime and development with them but the way Oda is portraying things is in tiers. Right now there is no reason to believe Luffy could Low diff and Supernova captain worth their salt. That notion is ridiculous. The way the world is set up Luffy sits nigh equal with Law, Kidd, X-Drank (probably), Hawkins (Probably), and the sleeper Apoo (although I see him as like a half a tier under them). Bart was introduced as someone who could low diff a Vice captain, and troll his way through collaseum fight filled with high tiers and one. Tanking fully charged King punch (for reference look what one slightly charged one did to Pika.) , trolling Dellinger, and protecting from Diamante all put him to the lower level of Mid High Tier (which Law, Luffy, Kid, etc currently sit atop of) 

As For Cavendish, it is insane you think Sanji could low diff him (sanji is my second favorite character btw). He is an up and coming supernova who is being made prominent for some reason or another. He isn't some Capone character, as he has been given a direct plotline with Luffy and his crew. He was strong enough to repel Chinjao, and was doing fine in the tournament. Without Hakuba Cavendish still gives Luffy a mid diff fight (non bloodlusted.) With him he is a force to be reckoned with as testified by an experienced VA.



Typhon said:


> There's no evidence to claim Chinjao used haki in that attack. It's just speculation. For one, it was already established how hard his head was. And two, everytime an invisible coat of haki was used, it was brought up before or after the fact such as the attack on the funk brothers or when the younger one started to attack.
> 
> I don't see how you can attack him about speculation and then do the same thing.


No, it was only mentioned one time during Marineford. (when Marco/Vista attacked Akainu). Yet Aokiji got hit by Jozu, Marco kicked Kizaru, etc. 

Also your looking past what the author was intending to portray. The whole point of the scene was a comedic run in featuring two people who wanted to kill Luffy for ridiculous reasons confronting him at once. Like a fox and racoon fighting for a rabbit. Chinjao used a casual headbutt attack and was repeled by Chinjao. It was clear they were portrayed on similar grounds (atleast casually in base), but both were more focused on Luffy.


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## Gibbs (Jun 5, 2014)

So the general Pro-Hakuba consensus is that he can extreme diff the highest Vice Admirals there are?   I think Current Old retired Garp, Current Onigumo, Dalmatian, Doberman, or Momonga would mid diff him.


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## LyricalMessiah (Jun 5, 2014)

Typhon said:


> There's no evidence to claim Chinjao used haki in that attack. For one, it was already established how hard his head was. And two, everytime an invisible coat of haki was used, it was brought up before or after the fact such as the attack on the funk brothers or when the younger one started to attack.
> 
> I don't see how you can attack him about speculation and then do the same thing.



Yes, there is, as evidenced by the fact that there is no evidence from you to suggest that his skin is pretty durable as in has the same attributes as metal or a solid matter just to try to ignore my points that he would have been bleeding from Luffy's haki imbued jet pistol which destroyed a pacifista and a sword thrust from Cavendish who had most likely imbued his sword with his haki. Two attacks of which would have made serious injuries to a person so I don't see how you are convinced that his skin is durable just to exempt the fact that he never imbued his head with Haki when he was hit by Luffy's jet pistol and cavendish's sword thrust. We know for a fact Color of armanent haki can be exhibited in more than just one way. It does not necessarily have to be a character directly shown using the armanent haki on a part of his body where black metal is shown. It can be used invisibly and it being shown invisibly does not deter the fact that Chinjao used it to protect his head against  those aforementioned attack.

No, this is falsified information. When Invisible Haki is used, it does not have to involve the characters stating that they used it. Invisible haki is similar to Color of armanent, as in the black metallic substance that can be imbued on a specific body part, but it's mostly used to add more power to an attack or can be used for defensive purposes, something Chinjao did. I guess Oda did not show chinjao using the black substance for the purpose of substance concerning the mystery concerning Chinjao's background and ability. Had he made Chinjao use said type of haki, it'd have contradicted his usual trait of giving a character suspense before unveiling them fully as the arc progresses.


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## Dr. White (Jun 5, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> So the general Pro-Hakuba consensus is that he can extreme diff the highest Vice Admirals there are?   I think Current Old retired Garp, Current Onigumo, Dalmatian, Doberman, or Momonga would mid diff him.



When was this claimed? I'd love for you to point out who said that.

Anywho, The VA with the best feats right now is Vergo (disregarding garp for obvious reasons). This pits him decently in the middle of the VA's. People like him and Bastille are on the same level IMO. Hakuba can genuinely threaten them in combat and has a decent chance at winning that fight. 

The elder VA's probably can defeat Hakuba due to experience. It still be somewhere ranging from mid - high diff. The older VA's are lacking in showing so it is hard to gauge where they are at. Although based on Onigumo's showing vs Hancock (who I think is High High Tier) no VA barring Garp should surpass High High tier simply due to the power structure.

Garp is on another level though.


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## StrawHat4Life (Jun 5, 2014)

There's no need to resort to personal attacks folks. Please debate civilly at all times. 

On topic: I see no scenario where Hakuba can defeat Luffy, especially a bloodlusted version. It would no doubt be a tough fight, perhaps straying into levels of high difficulty for Luffy, but I haven't seen anything from Cavendish/Hakuba thus far that Luffy couldn't overcome.


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## Skinny Pete (Jun 5, 2014)

Dunno said:


> No-one can be on the same level as Chinjao and Luffy, just like no-one can be on the same level as Aokiji and Smoker.



Sorry? Chinjao has proven himself to be a match for Luffy.


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2014)

Skinny Pete said:


> Sorry? Chinjao has proven himself to be a match for Luffy.



Yeah, just like Hody, Caesar and Monet...


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## Luis209 (Jun 5, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Yeah, just like Hody, Caesar and Monet...


Seriously? Then, compare the exibithion of Luffy vs Hody (on land) and vs Caeser (3rd round) with the one against Chinjao. See if Hody and Caeser made Luffy be bloodied and see if they endured a move as powerfull as Hawk Rifle and demanded a Thor elephunt gun to go down. And please don't come with scenes like "Hody endured a Red Hawk" and "Caeser demanded a Grizzly Magnun to go down", because that's is not exacly what happened, as you should know.

Besides, on top of that, Chinjao didn't even have his head restored. The main source of his power. You really need to think deeply before you post things like that.


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## Bonly (Jun 6, 2014)

Could go either way imo though I'd give the nod to Luffy for now, I need to see more from Hakuba/Cavendish first


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## Freechoice (Jun 6, 2014)

I wonder who Cavendish/Hakuba will end up fighting


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## Dunno (Jun 6, 2014)

Luis209 said:


> Seriously? Then, compare the exibithion of Luffy vs Hody (on land) and vs Caeser (3rd round) with the one against Chinjao. See if Hody and Caeser made Luffy be bloodied and see if they endured a move as powerfull as Hawk Rifle and demanded a Thor elephunt gun to go down. And please don't come with scenes like "Hody endured a Red Hawk" and "Caeser demanded a Grizzly Magnun to go down", because that's is not exacly what happened, as you should know.
> 
> Besides, on top of that, Chinjao didn't even have his head restored. The main source of his power. You really need to think deeply before you post things like that.



Hody bloodied Luffy. He made him bleed enough to require a blood transfusion just to survive. As for the tanking part, you answered it so well yourself.  The showing Cavendish had was also against flat-head Chinjao, so what does Chinjao getting his pointy head back has to do with anything?


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## Gibbs (Jun 6, 2014)

What said:


> I wonder who Cavendish/Hakuba will end up fighting


Possibly VA Bastille, as a way of providing time so the SHs can get out of Dressrosa.


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## Luis209 (Jun 6, 2014)

> Hody bloodied Luffy. He made him bleed enough to require a blood transfusion just to survive.


No, he did not. Why are you ignoring the most important part  "Luffy vs Hody *(ON LAND)*". He was absolutely stomped on land and he did incomparably worse than Don Chinjao against Luffy. In the sea doesn't count, because you know, Luffy fought with Chinjao on land and the sea was a more dangerous enemy than Hody and is Luffy weakness.



> As for the tanking part, you answered it so well yourself.


No, I didn't. Hody didn't take shit. He had to swallow a lot of pills to stay conscious from Red Hawk and Caeser was fusioned with Shinokuni, tthat's why he demanded Grizzly Magnum to go down. Base Caeser was being ridiculed by basic haki punches. As I said before, you should have known this.



> The showing Cavendish had was also against flat-head Chinjao, so what does Chinjao getting his pointy head back has to do with anything?


What? Why are you chaging the subject? I only replied to you, because you said Chinjao was the same to Luffy as were Hody and Caeser, when it was clear like crystal he wasn't. And then, I said that Chinjao against Luffy didn't even had his head restored, so the current Chinjao would be a even more difficult opponent to Luffy. He is much stronger than Hody or Caeser.


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## The Bloody Nine (Jun 6, 2014)

I can't believe so many of you, and Coru most of all, aren't giving a fully bloodlusted Luffy the respect he deserves.


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## Extravlad (Jun 6, 2014)

> I can't believe so many of you, and Coru most of all, aren't giving a fully bloodlusted Luffy the respect he deserves.


Someone 2x stronger than Cavendish IS NOT losing to Luffy with less than extreme difficulty.
Keep downplaying Cavendish it doesn't change facts, he was able to clash with Chinjao, by feats he can at least gives a mid diff fight to Luffy.
Hakuba makes Cavendish look like a joke.

This fight is 50/50 until we see more from Hakuba, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually stronger than Luffy.


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## Gibbs (Jun 6, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Someone 2x stronger than Cavendish IS NOT losing to Luffy with less than extreme difficulty.
> Keep downplaying Cavendish it doesn't change facts, he was able to clash with Chinjao, by feats he can at least gives a mid diff fight to Luffy.
> Hakuba makes Cavendish look like a joke.
> 
> This fight is 50/50 until we see more from Hakuba, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually stronger than Luffy.



East Blue Zoro was able to clash with Knife Mihawk
Mihawk using his knife is the same handicap as Chinjao not having his cone head.


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## Luis209 (Jun 6, 2014)

The Phoenix King said:


> East Blue Zoro was able to clash with Knife Mihawk
> Mihawk using his knife is the same handicap as Chinjao not having his cone head.


No, he was not. Are you really comparing both situations? Zoro got ridiculed even against knife Mihawk. Mihawk was only toying with him, even with a knife, calling him a frog.

Cavendish actually ws avoiding all Chinjao's hits, and stopped a headbutt with his sword and they both were equally matched. Even though Chinjao didn't use hardening, he praised Cavendish for being strong.


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## Freechoice (Jun 6, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Someone 2x stronger than Cavendish



Kings Punch can knock out a Yonko.


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## Extravlad (Jun 6, 2014)

> Kings Punch can knock out a Yonko.


Not the same kind of hype, if I remember correctly a fodder said that.
Bastille is not a fodder and he knows what he's talking about.


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## November (Jun 6, 2014)

Luffy punch the shit out of him


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## trance (Jun 6, 2014)

Skinny Pete said:


> Sorry? Chinjao has proven himself to be a match for Luffy.



Yea, is that why Luffy was mostly in base form the entire match and the one time he used a G3 move, he knocked Chinjao the fuck out?


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## Kaiser (Jun 6, 2014)

Hakuba is the first one piece character who showed to be capable to distort space with his speed alone. In unlimited mode, he should win


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## Luis209 (Jun 6, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> *Yea, is that why Luffy was mostly in base form the entire match* and the one time he used a G3 move, he knocked Chinjao the fuck out?


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## Kaiser (Jun 6, 2014)

^He said *mostly* and it is not like Chinjao performed well on those pictures either


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## Firo (Jun 6, 2014)

Broken links....


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## Dellinger (Jun 6, 2014)

Wow he used one hardening Gear 2nd move during the whole fight while Chinjao was using Hasshoken and Hardening during the whole fight as we've seen during those panels.Plus Luffy broke through Chinjao's defense and made him bleed.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

Man there's some serious Cavvy/Hakuba downplaying go on.

High - Extreme diff Luffy.


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