# Luke vs Iron Man



## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Luke Skywalker (Expanded Universe)

vs

Iron Man (Bleeding Edge)


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 26, 2012)

Does tony even have any defense about getting his mind raped?


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Does tony even have any defense about getting his mind raped?



Yes, he has anti-psy equipment that effectively blocked out Emma's Telepathy. There is also the case, that due to the Extremis Virus. His body changed, making his mind more mechanical like in the sense of a "Hard Drive", making it more difficult for Telepaths to read, and manipulate his his mind.


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 26, 2012)

Well, in that case Iron Man probably blasts his light saber out of Luke's hand, Luke might be able to win though if he has that weird electricity that goes directly past armour. But it dosent look like it's in his favor without mindrape hax. I don't know much about expanded Luke though.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

You don't have to put Expanded Universe in the OP.

It's all canon and we use canonical material in the OBD, so there's no need to specify that you're using the EU.

As for the match, I'm not very familiar with Iron Man's feats so I can't really comment on it.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Well, in that case Iron Man probably blasts his light saber out of Luke's hand, Luke might be able to win though if he has that weird electricity that goes directly past armour. But it dosent look like it's in his favor without mindrape hax. I don't know much about expanded Luke though.



Unless Iron Man can get past Luke's Relativistic-FTL reactions that's not going to happen.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

Tony's reactions are up there as well, and he actually has the physical movement speed to match.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Unless Iron Man can get past Luke's Relativistic-FTL reactions that's not going to happen.



The extremis allows Tony to have relativistic pico-second reaction time.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Already had this done before, Luke won. Thread was made exact same time last year. Tony wins if prep is allowed.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Already had this done before, Luke won. Thread was made exact same time last year. Tony wins if prep is allowed.



I've read that topic, no clear victor was established.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Well that's cute but completely wrong.

Let's see, IWD conceded it, Banhammer conceded it, Lucaniel proved Thor bullshitted, and Matta Clatta lied about EU feats and tried to distort facts. So no, I don't think you trying to arbitrate a thread that had already been done a year ago where you barely did more then lurk it last year is going to swing this around.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 26, 2012)

Thor didn't exactly do a stellar job of supporting his side 

let's hope this one goes better


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

>You can't prove Luke can mind-fuck Tony
>posts scan of Xavier casually reading his mind
>Thor

best debater 2011


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 26, 2012)

Isnt Xavier like, an amazingly hax telepathic?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> >You can't prove Luke can mind-fuck Tony
> >posts scan of Xavier casually reading his mind
> >Thor
> 
> best debater 2011



the prowess of the Jellyson, ladies and gentlemen


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## familyparka (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Isnt Xavier like, an amazingly hax telepathic?



Emma frost has better feats, survived literally 1000 mind rapings at the same time and then blasted every one of her attackers with one mindwave.

Read Phoenix Warsong...


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

familyparka said:


> Emma frost has better feats, survived literally 1000 mind rapings at the same time and then blasted every one of her attackers with one mindwave.
> 
> Read Phoenix Warsong...



Don't most of Xavier's feats shit all over that?


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

Emma is not a better telepath than Charles. This has been established many times in the comics.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> Don't most of Xavier's feats shit all over that?



turning an entire planetary population's collective consciousness into a single focused mental burst kind of does, yeah

unless I'm missing something from that


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

He claimed that it was impossible to read Tony's mind, Tony uses separate armors for different purposes. He has no "all-in-one-for-everything" even with Bleeding Edge. One armor that could block out certain level telepaths has never worked against people like Xavier or Emma, the latter which Luke is around in terms of TP, but wouldn't work against other exotic abilities like astral attack, soul-manipulation, or teleportation.

Let's see my memory is:

- Thor argued that a certain type of armor that guards against phasing of a specific type would work against an ability that simply moves through teleportation (nope)

- Thor claimed repeatedly that Tony is always invincible or heavily immune to telepaths/psionics; cities (I shit you not) a scene from New Avengers: Illumanti of Tony in one of his more modern armors telling Xavier to stop reading his mind; which shot down his credibility again as well as lead to more times of his classic ability to shot down himself in debates; this is essentially the telematry sensors or whatever, a quick warning against psychic attacks then a shield

- Argued about reactions with Tony reacting in .004 seconds after an explosion already occurred being impressive compared to lightspeed+ reflexes

Yeah, no wonder. I can go on.

Edit: Emma and Luke hover around similar levels and are below Xavier, Charles has mentally slapped Emma at her best, granted he would go all out to make it certain but she's below him by a lot. Then again Emma beats him in versatility as she's not just a telepath.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Isnt Xavier like, an amazingly hax telepathic?



Xavier, and Emma are above Luke in telepathy.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah now that I remember it its an interesting coincidence that a certain mod didn't post in the thread when other comic buffs were point out Thor lying, or distorting the truth involving Tony or anyone else from comics vs Star Wars:

- Ben Grimm
- IWD
- Banhammer
- Eas
- EM at times

Its just a trend, pay no mind to it though.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Not only does Iron Man carry anti-psi equipment. He can neutralize telepaths, as in the case with Moondragon. 

Luke telepathy is no real threat.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Citation required because this isn't doing it: 

> telemetry sensors won't cut it
> doesn't have that unless in his Ghost tech
> astral sensing only warns of that stuff from the astral plane
> brain jamming is only a mental ECM 
> teleportation argument was something funny about how teleportation beams that work nothing like Fold-Space stops the trasmitting of nanomachines or something into his body

Nope.

Lukewithchips.gif

Hahaha look at that the old thread was EXTREMIS/Bleeding Edge Tony vs a weaker Luke.

>Look at Emma's respect thread
>Above Luke
>laughingwhores.png


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

Something else worth mentioning is fold space.

Can Iron Man resist teleportation?


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

He can resist phasing, and certain forms of space manipulation but not true teleportation. The best showing he is stopping a beam from transmitting or "teleporting" nanomachines in his body and that's not part of Bleeding Edge.

And it was through some form of physical energy that Tony did it. Nothing to do against real teleportation or time-space manipulation since it "physically" cut off the beam.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

So... there's not much stopping Luke from teleporting his head off, is there?


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

IM oneshots Luke.

The end.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Wrong, the end.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> So... there's not much stopping Luke from teleporting his head off, is there?



Your asking if Tony has an answer to Space-Folding? He developed Ghost-Tech. Its a multi-dimensional bridge that allows him to teleport/phase. 

You also in built teleportation outfitted in his suit.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> So... there's not much stopping Luke from teleporting his head off, is there?



Not a whole lot, no.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Ghost Tech stopped phasing, not teleportion.

And its not in Bleeding Edge.


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## Huntring (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> IM oneshots Luke.
> 
> The end.



Good job on not reading the thread.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Its okay, Havoc is trolling and he's my friend.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

Huntring said:


> God job on not reading the thread.


You don't even know who Iron Man is.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 26, 2012)

friendship is magic

:33


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Ghost Tech stopped phasing, not teleportion.
> 
> And its not in Bleeding Edge.



>The scan pretty lays out in black bold text. Ghost Tech is phasing via multi-layered teleportation. 

>Either you do not know, or did not realize that Bleeding Edge Armor is a modular armor. If he wants Ghost Tech, he can modulate the armor to have such tech.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

>Except that its not
>Cities the exact same argument as Thor and just repeats ad naseum bullshit when pressed to post scans; "Its upgraded, but I have no actual scans to post it!"
>And continues to think phasing is equivalent to manipulating time-space to teleport

No, but do continue.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Your asking if Tony has an answer to Space-Folding? He developed Ghost-Tech. Its a multi-dimensional bridge that allows him to teleport/phase.
> 
> You also in built teleportation outfitted in his suit.



Actually he's talking about using fold space. Fold space basically folds the fabric of the space time "teleport" an object. The way it works is really more like creating a worm hole that only effects specific targets.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

In before the transmission beam argument that got sniped over a year ago being used again.


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## Huntring (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> You don't even know who Iron Man is.



Actually I read a couple comics so I'm aware of who he is.  Don't know enough about him to comment on the match though.

I apologize if I was being to aggressive.  Just annoys me when people state "X wins" without giving a reason and when everything in the thread indicates otherwise unless their being sarcastic.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> So... there's not much stopping Luke from teleporting his head off, is there?



Never seen any evidence that he can actually do this though. Just teleport objects and perhaps people over short distances.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

Serious question, does Luke have a defense against sonic attacks?

I don't know much about him since I only read good fiction.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Abeloth did it, and he can certainly be able to. Its not like in-character Luke likes to mind-fuck people into oblivion because he's a nice guy but he has that capacity and did comment on its offensive abilities in FoTJ iirc. Kind of different beast to argue.

Let's not forget you were even arguing this in the Luke runs the ToAru gauntlet thread.

Yeah Havoc, when he was a noob. Haven't you read the Bible?


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

Probably can use TK to dampen the sonic waves.

EDIT: I was arguing Luke could teleport himself, I've never seen him teleport someone's head off.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh yeah that's right, but there is no real difference between using it in that application. And Abeloth has like I said if memory serves right.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> >Except that its not


Ya, its written in clear English. 

"Ghost Tech. Multi-Dimensional Bridge Teleportation--Phase you right through solid objects." - Tony Stark. 




Fang said:


> >Except that its not
> >Cities the exact same argument as Thor and just repeats ad naseum bullshit when pressed to post scans; "Its upgraded, but I have no actual scans to post it!"


Like it or not, that is the biggest distinguishing feature from his earlier armor. You know that its a modular-armor that molds to his specifics due to being a colony of Nano-Machines.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> IM oneshots Luke.
> 
> The end.


Like he did to Graviton. 



Havoc said:


> Serious question, does Luke have a defense against sonic attacks?
> 
> I don't know much about him since I only read good fiction.



Or EM Pulse to jam his telepathy.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

Tony steals the gems back and then oneshots the SW universe.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Ya, *its written in clear English. *
> 
> "Ghost Tech. Multi-Dimensional Bridge Teleportation--*Phase you right through solid objects.*" - Tony Stark.



Indeed it is.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

So Luke can teleport intangible things?

If so that's impressive, may take Tony two shots.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Ya, its written in clear English.



And the feat doesn't match, so no-sell there.



> "Ghost Tech. Multi-Dimensional Bridge Teleportation--Phase you right through solid objects." - Tony Stark.



>and never used against teleportation
>only Kitty's style of phasing ability

Nope.



> Like it or not, that is the biggest distinguishing feature from his earlier armor. You know that its a modular-armor that molds to his specifics due to being a colony of Nano-Machines.



You mean like how it stopped the beam from sending the nano-machines with physical energy and thus interacted to stop it in the first place: *physically* being the key word.



Meyer Lansky said:


> Or EM Pulse to jam his telepathy.



Oh hey its another tired and broken down beaten horse argument that has nothing to do with directly stopping a telepathic attack as all it did to Moondragon was break her concentration, something which Luke has overcome as a noobie.

Are you even trying since all of your arguments are parroting Thor's in the same consequential order?


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Ya, its written in clear English.
> 
> "Ghost Tech. Multi-Dimensional Bridge Teleportation--Phase you right through solid objects." - Tony Stark.



I believe you are mistaken about the argument your trying to make.

Space-time is an exist but isn't an object that Tony can phase through.

What is basically happening with this attack is the space that Tony's Head is occupying is put somewhere else.



> Like it or not, that is the biggest distinguishing feature from his earlier armor. You know that its a modular-armor that molds to his specifics due to being a colony of Nano-Machines.



What the suit is made of is irrelevant. Only the capabilities of the suit matter, unless they're able to keep fighting even after Stark is dead they wont be much good.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah this is the "teleportation" argument. Seriously, this thread is just a thinly veiled attempt at trying to argue against the results of last year's match up.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

IM infects Luke with the extremis virus.

Then he hacks his brain.

From there, combo to ko.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Luke could 1 shot Iron Man before the Extremis Virus could be used against him.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc ilubaby.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2012)

Is this_ in character?_


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Luke could 1 shot Iron Man before the Extremis Virus could be used against him.


Nope.

IM teleports his suit inside Luke.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Is this_ in character?_



The assumed condition is that both characters are bloodlusted.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> And the feat doesn't match, so no-sell there.
> 
> >and never used against teleportation
> >only Kitty's style of phasing ability
> ...



tehehe. You are amusing. 
How does it counter teleporation? By being in an elaborate state of teleporation. 



Fang said:


> You mean like how it stopped the beam from sending the nano-machines with physical energy and thus interacted to stop it in the first place: *physically* being the key word.


Huh? your replying in riddles. 


Fang said:


> Oh hey its another tired and broken down beaten horse argument that has nothing to do with directly stopping a telepathic attack as all it did to Moondragon was break her concentration, something which Luke has overcome as a noobie.
> 
> Are you even trying since all of your arguments are parroting Thor's in the same consequential order?


Proof? You know because if his EM Pulse Wave can effect someone of Moondragons caliber, than its fair game to say it will effect Luke unless proven otherwise.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> Nope.
> 
> IM teleports his suit inside Luke.



Accept Luke's Precognition allows him to avoid attacks without otherwise seeing or being aware of the danger.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Accept Luke's Precognition allows him to avoid attacks without otherwise seeing or being aware of the danger.



Tony can hold him in a Force Field, like he did to Apocalypse.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

So in other words, you still think a fancy form of phasing is equivalent to stopping the manipulation of time and space even though its never shown that capacity in Ghost tech much less with Bleeding Edge even with the Exteremis virus showcasing anything near that or having its ability even if it could.

Then you make the silly assumption that by repeating yourself, your argument isn't invalidated despite the fact its best showing when using that specific ability in an armor that he doesn't have it with that physically stopped a beam that did so to transmit nanomachines equates to > stopping teleportation.

Concession accepted.

Also KiaserWombat's calc of the Lusakanya feat gives Luke > continental level TK.


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## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2012)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> The assumed condition is that both characters are bloodlusted.



Its cause I thought it would be interested to hear how each fighter would tackle the other, if the they didnt teleport each others body parts or their suit into one another....because that's kind of a retarded "battle." 

 

Needs moar lazers...

I mean is that the only way for Luke to win...?


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> tehehe. You are amusing.
> How does it counter teleporation? By being in an elaborate state of teleporation.


Do you or do you not have scans of it resisting/using actual teleportation?



> Huh? your replying in riddles.
> 
> Proof? You know because if his EM Pulse Wave can effect someone of Moondragons caliber, than its fair game to say it will effect Luke unless proven otherwise.



How about the scan you just posted, where Moondragon states that she needs to *regain her concentration.*


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> *snip for semantics and misinformation





Confirmed for all my nopes.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> tehehe. You are amusing.
> How does it counter teleporation? By being in an elaborate state of teleporation.



"tehehe" now that's condescending.

Annoying too given how wrong you are.

Is it more elaborate?

Yes.

Is it an entirely different process?

Yes.

Do you appear understand it?

Not in the slightest bit.

Calling fold-space teleportation is wrong.

The force doesn't allow for objects to be teleported.

Don't think Star Ship Enterprise, and Star Trek.

Think Star Gate.

Only instead of a portal that you walk through, the portal wraps around the target and is the destination is some other place that Luke picks out. It really is not the same thing as a teleportation.

Do you understand now?


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Anyway I'm done.

Luke vs Iron-Man thread 2.0 doesn't change the results without prep.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Accept Luke's Precognition allows him to avoid attacks without otherwise seeing or being aware of the danger.


Will be too fast to react to it.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Its cause I thought it would be interested to hear how each fighter would tackle the other, if the they didnt teleport each others body parts or their suit into one another....because that's kind of a retarded "battle."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, it's just the most expedient way for Luke to win.

Whichever suit Iron Man wears to the battle field determines the tactics Luke needs to use in order to win. Iron Man has a lot of suits that are specialized for dealing with specific circumstances and specific situations.

The disadvantage Iron Man has is Luke has over 30 years of power-ups in the form the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Picture Superman during the Silver Age. His opponents kept becoming stronger and to beat he just kept on getting power-ups to keep the more powerful foes.

Basically Luke's skill sets and feats are so wide and varried that Tony doesn't have a suit that allows him to counter all of the methods Luke now has to Kill him.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> Will be too fast to react to it.



Impossible, Luke was able to react to attacks that move at light speed. Tony isn't fast enough.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> "tehehe" now that's condescending.
> 
> Annoying too given how wrong you are.
> 
> ...


Fang applied the term teleporation. I simply threw the term back at him. Would you like to correct him, or are you simply targeting me for opposing Luke?

And secondly the person that is not understanding is you. Ghost Tech, actively displaces him in layered dimension. Thats basically it. To go against it, is to go against whats being said on panel. 

If Luke wishes to effect Tony in his Ghost Tech. Luke would need to actively track Tony in the dimension he is displacing himself and warp/fold. Which begs the question, has Luke ever folded someone that is actively displacing himself in such a manner?


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

In case anyone's wondering, all of Id's "original" arguments were refuted about a dozen times when Thor used them in the exact same thread made less than a year ago.  Including the bullshit about Bleeding Edge and Ghost tech misinformation involving anything similar to teleportation or psychic attacks.

Literally, this is hilarious.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Fang applied the term teleporation. I simply threw the term back at him. Would you like to correct him, or are you simply targeting me for opposing Luke?



Why would I target you? Your an odd book to read. One moment you gloat with a "tehehe" and the next your like, "Oh I get it, your trying to bash on me because your fanboy!"

Oh I get it! Your trying to be condescending again!

Fang used the term Teleport because its easiest way of describing the technique. The effects of the technique are very much like a Teleport.



> And secondly the person that is not understanding is you. Ghost Tech, actively displaces him in layered dimension. Thats basically it. To go against it, is to go against whats being said on panel.
> 
> If Luke wishes to effect Tony in his Ghost Tech. Luke would need to actively track Tony in the dimension he is displacing himself and warp/fold. Which begs the question, has Luke ever folded someone that is actively displacing himself in such a manner?



Luke doesn't effect the objects being teleported. He effects the space the entire space in which those objects exist.

If Tony still exists within the spacial area being manipulated, then it the technique would still effect him. Even being in extra dimensions wouldn't change that fact because those dimensions still exist within space time.

Tony would need to no longer inhabit the same space-time as Luke in order to not be effected by Fold-Space. If Ghost Tech did that then Tony Stark wouldn't be in the same universe anymore once he used it. But clearly, he does still inhabit the same space as before, he just also uses other dimensions as well.


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Impossible, Luke was able to react to attacks that move at light speed. Tony isn't fast enough.


Teleportation > lightspeed

IM dodges Luke's attacks with his spider sense.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

Spider-sense is vastly inferior to Luke's precog and shatterpoints


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

Spider sense + light speed reaction + teleportation.

IM via combo to ko.


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## familyparka (Jul 26, 2012)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> turning an entire planetary population's collective consciousness into a single focused mental burst kind of does, yeah
> 
> unless I'm missing something from that



A thousand Clones of Emma possessed by the phoenix force tryed to mindfuck her at the same fucking time, she survived without turning into diamond, then killed all of them at once when they where in their diamond form. Again, the THOUSAND clones where possessed by the mother fucking PHOENIX FORCE.

Still think Xavier's feat is better?


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## Im The Evil Mastermind (Jul 26, 2012)

How strong is the phoenix force, is it stronger then that demon Doctor Strange can take some power from? I think it was strange that can do that.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Xavier held his own against the Phoenix in her first appearance as well as glimpsed the mind and memories of Galactus forcefully against the latter will for a short time (admittingly) and telepathically dominated Ego the Living Planet by gathering said said mental energy and channeling it into Zcann.

Not impressed. Jean varies in power level so much no one really cares for it as a status marker other then at least being a Herald opponent. Also his fight against Miss. Sinister comes to mind as well.


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## familyparka (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> How strong is the phoenix force, is it stronger then that demon Doctor Strange can take some power from? I think it was strange that can do that.



The phoenix force was created by The Living Tribunal itself to complete certain purposes/judments, it is stated that it's power is infinity. Strange becomes the avatar of Eternity, if that's what you mean, still I don't think that entity is above The Phoenix Force, not to mention the Living Tribunal.



Fang said:


> Xavier held his own against the Phoenix in her first appearance as well as glimpsed the mind and memories of Galactus forcefully against the latter will for a short time (admittingly) and telepathically dominated Ego the Living Planet by gathering said said mental energy and channeling it into Zcann.



Emma controls the Phoenix Force when being possessed by it in Endsong, she is the only person shown to do that. Also held her own against it by herself and, again, without diamond stance.

Galactus was a being created by such a force if I'm not wrong so let's just not take it as a bigger feat, because it shouldn't be.


Scans, I'm still searching for some more if you are interested.

First, the Clones:


The Clone Possession/Celeste accepting the Force to pass it to the rest of the clones:



Emma after the Mindfuck:


Here is Emma in Endsong Taking the Force:



Emma with the Force under control:


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## Waking Dreamer (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Luke doesn't effect the objects being teleported. He effects the space the entire space in which those objects exist.



Yeah but one object may exist in one dimension but not in another. So affecting the space of one object may not effect the space of another dimension(s).



> If Tony still exists within the spacial area being manipulated, then it the technique would still effect him. Even being in extra dimensions wouldn't change that fact because those dimensions still exist within space time.



Thats the point though, if you are in one dimension then you're not necessarily in another.  What exactly is your definition of _spacetime_ anyway?



> Tony would need to no longer inhabit the same space-time as Luke in order to not be effected by Fold-Space. If Ghost Tech did that then Tony Stark wouldn't be in the same universe anymore once he used it. But clearly, he does still inhabit the same space as before, he just also uses other dimensions as well.



Spacetime is a broad term and usually refers to the location of an object with four points of reference: x,y,z and t co-ordinates. "Bending/folding space" on a particular dimensional plane doesnt mean Luke is bending/affecting multiple/_ALL_ dimensions at once, some theories say their could be infinite dimensions all existing parallel to each other at the same time - to say Luke's space fold affects ALL of them at once would be a NLF right? How many dimensions do you need for Luke to do his "teleporting" feats? Luke's only shown to move/travel across one dimensional plane with spacefold right?

This is going into string theory, but Space Fold will need to have Luke knowing what is happening with at least 12 other dimensions and have influence over them as opposed to just the one he and Stark is fighting in.

That is, has Luke shown influencing multiple dimensions at once with Spacefold?


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

Xavier > Emma

Get over it.


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## familyparka (Jul 26, 2012)

Havoc said:


> Xavier > Emma
> 
> Get over it.



Nice argument, always works when you are left with no proofs


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## Havoc (Jul 26, 2012)

The proof is his superior feats.


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## eaebiakuya (Jul 26, 2012)

Guys, imo the picosecond feat is just a hyperbole. It was a Tony statement without any proof.

A nanosecond feat would give iron man lightspeed reactions. Picoseconds is FTL. And i dont remember he displaying FTL speeds or reactions in any fight or any moment with bleeding edge. He never was portrayed as someone with massive speed or massive reactions with bleeding edge armor.

We have a statement without any feat to backup. 

About Spider Sense, from what i remember, he deleted all info he got in extremis time. He probably dont have it anymore (also, we dont have any showing of he using spider sense with bleeding edge).


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

Wrong. It was stated in a scientific and clinical manner when he was explaining the technology he invented. Stop trolling.

As for massive speed and reactions, just look at some of the feats from his weaker armors and powerscale.


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## Matta Clatta (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Well that's cute but completely wrong.
> 
> Let's see, IWD conceded it, Banhammer conceded it, Lucaniel proved Thor bullshitted, and Matta Clatta lied about EU feats and tried to distort facts. So no, I don't think you trying to arbitrate a thread that had already been done a year ago where you barely did more then lurk it last year is going to swing this around.



yeah this funny because I recall everyone agreeing that Luke would die as soon as Tony fired off one repulsor blast.


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## eaebiakuya (Jul 26, 2012)

Endless Mike said:


> Wrong. It was stated in a scientific and clinical manner when he was explaining the technology he invented. Stop trolling.
> 
> As for massive speed and reactions, just look at some of the feats from his weaker armors and powerscale.



Look at yours posts in 2010:

About Iron being FTL "by defaut"



> I doubt it. In fact I don't think he actually can go FTL except under rare circumstances, or when he has specialized tech he doesn't normally use.



About IM and Goku speeds:



> Toss Up
> 
> Thing is, quantifiable feats that put him in that range are not quite common enough.



How he can be even in speed with Goku in one thread and in another, be FTL?


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## Nevermind (Jul 26, 2012)

I believe that thread is several years old for starters.


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## Endless Mike (Jul 26, 2012)

And when did I say in this thread he was FTL? Just that he had fast reactions. And no, nanosecond reactions doesn't make you able to react to lightspeed attacks. If it did people would be claiming Negima characters can react to FTL blitzes due to their calculating things in nanoseconds in the festival arc. Light can move around 30cm in a nanosecond, but if you can't physically move fast enough to do anything about it, being able to think that fast doesn't help. Not that Tony can't arguably have FTL reactions though.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 26, 2012)

eaebiakuya said:


> Guys, imo the picosecond feat is just a hyperbole. It was a Tony statement without any proof.



Guys IMO this user likes to downplay comics and call hyperbole on everything making his bias obvious. Not to mention I recall your hilarious attempts at downplaying Saint Seiya where you contradicted yourself a lot.

Anyway unless Tony has prep he can't win, he does have anti-psionic tech but it's not standard. Ironman actually does have the tech for this but he does'nt carry everything around. Plus Luke has gained more feats since this thread was last done. I honestly have not gone through this thread and suppose can be faulted for this but don't care to go through this.

Id has made a bait thread.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

familyparka said:


> *snip*



Now post scans of Emma not being able to get past a broken down Xavier's mental shields and barriers.



Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah but one object may exist in one dimension but not in another. So affecting the space of one object may not effect the space of another dimension(s).



Semantics.



> Thats the point though, if you are in one dimension then you're not necessarily in another.  What exactly is your definition of _spacetime_ anyway?



What the hell does this have to do with anything? Ghost tech has literally nothing to stop anything involving any form of teleportation be it Nightcrawler's, Fold-Space from Force-Users, or any one elses. It was devised in mind to protect against phasing through different dimensions and its defense and only feat is against *a beam that physically* transmitted object into a person's body. Not through energy, not through time-space manipulation, its that simple.



> Spacetime is a broad term and usually refers to the location of an object with four points of reference: x,y,z and t co-ordinates. "Bending/folding space" on a particular dimensional plane doesnt mean Luke is bending/affecting multiple/_ALL_ dimensions at once, some theories say their could be infinite dimensions all existing parallel to each other at the same time - to say Luke's space fold affects ALL of them at once would be a NLF right? How many dimensions do you need for Luke to do his "teleporting" feats? Luke's only shown to move/travel across one dimensional plane with spacefold right?



You are babbling here man. The key factor is that Iron-Man has no defense against teleportation and has only one showing against a vastly different form of it with completely different mechanics, and that ability for one of his armors isn't even available for Ghost tech or Bleeding Edge, even with the Extremis Virus allowed for Tony. 

That is a no limits fallacy. Fold-Space doesn't work through any sort of physical manipulation, so its more then likely a NLF for Tony then Luke. 



> This is going into string theory, but Space Fold will need to have Luke knowing what is happening with at least 12 other dimensions and have influence over them as opposed to just the one he and Stark is fighting in.



Except no.



> That is, has Luke shown influencing multiple dimensions at once with Spacefold?



No, but then again Tony has never shown defense against a normal ability to rip through time-space so your argument is nonsensical as it is irrelevant.



Havoc said:


> Xavier > Emma
> 
> Get over it.



Xavier > Emma.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

strongarm85 said:


> Why would I target you? Your an odd book to read. One moment you gloat with a "tehehe" and the next your like, "Oh I get it, your trying to bash on me because your fanboy!"
> 
> Oh I get it! Your trying to be condescending again!
> 
> Fang used the term Teleport because its easiest way of describing the technique. The effects of the technique are very much like a Teleport.







strongarm85 said:


> Luke doesn't effect the objects being teleported. He effects the space the entire space in which those objects exist.


Yeah we covered this already. 



strongarm85 said:


> Luke doesn't effect the objects being teleported. He effects the space the entire space in which those objects exist.
> 
> If Tony still exists within the spacial area being manipulated, then it the technique would still effect him. Even being in extra dimensions wouldn't change that fact because those dimensions still exist within space time.
> 
> Tony would need to no longer inhabit the same space-time as Luke in order to not be effected by Fold-Space. If Ghost Tech did that then Tony Stark wouldn't be in the same universe anymore once he used it. But clearly, he does still inhabit the same space as before, he just also uses other dimensions as well.


Before heading to sleep, I was about type a massive post. But Waking Dreamer covered this very thoroughly.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> Yeah but one object may exist in one dimension but not in another. So affecting the space of one object may not effect the space of another dimension(s).



1. Accept that we know that in Ghost Tech Tony does still exist in the same spatial dimensions he did before. Otherwise he would be invisible. A being in a higher dimension would be invisible to us because light particles, which exist in our dimension, would pass through him. Unless of course he still inhabited our dimension, which case we would still see him.

2. Even other dimensions still utilized in such a way, would still exist in the same points in space-time as dimensions that are perceptible to us. So a spatial warp would even effect those other dimensions.



> Thats the point though, if you are in one dimension then you're not necessarily in another.  What exactly is your definition of _spacetime_ anyway?



Accept we know that he still exist within the same 3 dimensional space he was before because he isn't invisible.



> Spacetime is a broad term and usually refers to the location of an object with four points of reference: x,y,z and t co-ordinates. "Bending/folding space" on a particular dimensional plane doesnt mean Luke is bending/affecting multiple/_ALL_ dimensions at once, some theories say their could be infinite dimensions all existing parallel to each other at the same time - to say Luke's space fold affects ALL of them at once would be a NLF right? How many dimensions do you need for Luke to do his "teleporting" feats? Luke's only shown to move/travel across one dimensional plane with spacefold right?
> 
> This is going into string theory, but Space Fold will need to have Luke knowing what is happening with at least 12 other dimensions and have influence over them as opposed to just the one he and Stark is fighting in.
> 
> That is, has Luke shown influencing multiple dimensions at once with Spacefold?



I'll make not of several flaws with this tactic:

1. Luke's perception with the force is not limited to what can be experienced through his senses. As long as Tony is alive and still exists within he universe, Luke is would still able to detect him.

2. For the sake of argument, lets say that Tony being in another dimension would protect him from Luke's Fold Space ability. That would also mean that Iron Man would be unable to attack Luke in any way because Tony himself would be in another dimension. Which means that only way for Iron Man to attack Luke Once he start using Ghost Tech is once again return to his physical form in the same dimension as Luke. At which point the fight would end, because Luke would kill Tony Immediately.

3. If Tony no longer existed within the same dimensions at all, than light particles would pass through him, making him invisible. So clearly he does still exist within the same points in space.

4. According the principals of quantum mechanics, which Ghost Tech is based on, we constantly interact with other dimensions all the time. We just can't perceive those dimension. This Higgs Field exists within a higher dimension that we can't see with our eyes. Which is why the discovery of the Higgs Boson is an important scientific discovery. The reason we have mass is because we bump up against the particles in the Higgs field, which gives us mass.

But, those other dimensions still exist within the same points of space time.

Tony is simply using extra dimension to allow his particles to pass through solid mater. More specifically, he is shifting his particles to another dimension, which inhabits the same space, to allow objects to move through him.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

>except for actually working against teleportation has never been shown
>except that it stopped some goofy beam through that worked on the mechanics of transmitting stuff via physical energy
>he doesn't have that in Bleeding Edge and even if did doesn't work to stop against any type of proper teleporter ability or power
>best defense for it is against phasing and its limited

yep, he's going in circles here.


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

We're going in circles here, men.

So let's bring something fresh to the table.

How strong are the repulsor blasts shot by Iron Man?
I mean with his Bleeding Edge armor.
I'm not really keeping up with the mainstream comics so that keeps me wondering somewhat.

Also that whether Luke has a way to handle those blasts.

We already know in what ways Luke can beat IM, but how about a totally upfront battle?
How strong are Luke's telekinetic shields?
Can he combine it with his energy absorption at once?
Also is it possible for Luke to use his fold-space warping tech to BFR incoming attacks?


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Country to continental TK minimum, can absorb energy attacks; precedence indicates this should go fairly high in terms of yield, take away objects, equipment or armor with Fold-Space (as well as the use of it to mutilate, kill or bfr), automatic precognition, Shatterpoints which allows him to know how Tony's abilities as Iron-Man works and what the best steps are to counter and beat him, as well as TP.

Luke can also generate shields and barriers anyway and thats a simple ability so in slugest, Luke is going to take it. And yeah most decent Force-Users can multitask different abilities or techniques at once. Put up a Force barrier, to tank most of a replusor blast if not all of it, redirect or absorb the rest of the energy, press with TK or TP attacks.


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang, you only answered my first question regarding Luke.
Can Luke use his fold-space trick to warp enemy attacks away?


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Probably, shouldn't be difficult. Abeloth warped herself with it, not that it matters because its not necessary in this type of match up. Then again if he really wanted, combine his Force senses, precognition, and Fold-Space means he probably could.


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

I see.
So there aren't any feats for it but the potential is still there.
Indeed, the very least it should work via preping a fold-space portal before the attack is being made.
I wanted to know this in regards for future battles.

Anyways, I still had no answers regarding the force behind the Bleeding Edge armor's repulsor blasts. Or any other attack.
I'm aware IM's DC is at least city level but I highly suspect it being well above that.


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## Id (Jul 26, 2012)

Quick Breakdown of Iron Man.


Iron Mans armor itself can withstand Nuclear Bombardment.
His Shields at 2% can withstand Nuclear Bombardment. 
Class 90-100 strength. 
Pico-Second reaction time. 
Energy Manipulator 
Psi-Shields
Repulsor Rays - Brought down Graviton


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

^That still said absolutely nothing about the power behind his repulsor beams.
Also isn't that a bit outdated?
I heard Iron Man's suit has Kree technology enhanced shields that took some mayor punishment.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> I see.
> So there aren't any feats for it but the potential is still there.
> Indeed, the very least it should work via preping a fold-space portal before the attack is being made.
> I wanted to know this in regards for future battles.
> ...



Quick correction: Fold-Space doesn't use portals. When Luke used it on the Vorcha stick in Ben's hand, it disappeared and then reappeared in his hand the same moment Ben took it out without any time difference. As for Tony's psychic and astral defenses:

He has telemetry sensors that just tells him when someone is reading his mind. The brain-jammer just generates the equivalent to a psychic ECM, he used it against Moondragon but she was never trying to mind-rape him or was even focused on him the first place, she was fighting the other Avengers. It just messed her up by the sound it generated, if she was actually telepathically attacking him, it wouldn't have done anything.

Like I said, just look at the old thread when it comes to the claims of the brain-jamming and the silly "it protects against phasing" spiel. Also he has no counter to TK or TP. With prep, probably 6/10  or 7/10 its Tony's, without its vastly in Luke's hand.


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Quick correction: Fold-Space doesn't use portals. When Luke used it on the Vorcha stick in Ben's hand, it disappeared and then reappeared in his hand the same moment Ben took it out without any time difference.


Creating a "portal" doesn't necessarily mean there would be a time lag.

Actually, from what I read so far it seems to be an ability to connect two different points of space. So if Ben thursts his hand into that "portal", it seemingly disappears only to appear from the exit point of the "portal".

That's pretty good, as far as redirecting incoming attacks go.

Also you mentioned before that this fold-space tech works even involuntarily aka moving an object through different points of space.
In short "teleporting" away the opponent's head is entirely possible.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Tony Stark has plenty of plot devices which are really deus ex machina.
Depending on how you wish to involve them

For example, take Avengers vs X-Men
In their initial battle, Tony is legitimately scared that Emma Frost can single handedly defeat the entire rosters of Avengers, New Avengers and  shield helicarrier in ten seconds, so he has to go out of his way to find her while she's distracted with Hope and pump her full of retard tazers

Then, next chapter with no explanation whatsoever, every one and their left hand has telepathy proof amulets


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## hojou (Jul 26, 2012)

Meyer Lansky said:


> Fang applied the term teleporation. I simply threw the term back at him. Would you like to correct him, or are you simply targeting me for opposing Luke?
> 
> And secondly the person that is not understanding is you. Ghost Tech, actively displaces him in layered dimension. Thats basically it. To go against it, is to go against whats being said on panel.
> 
> If Luke wishes to effect Tony in his Ghost Tech. Luke would need to actively track Tony in the dimension he is displacing himself and warp/fold. Which begs the question, has Luke ever folded someone that is actively displacing himself in such a manner?



yeah people seem to forget that "ghost" isnt actually in the same dimension, but actually in a different one and ironman had to change the frequency of his  attack to actually damage him. Is luke able to due so?


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

And yet Emma Frost can still fuck with ross's mind and find out where Transonic is located at, and explode Sinister's mighty Psi-Tower in what is described as a psychic thermopylae.
Not to mention Magik can also casually fuck with their minds

Anyway, telepathy is too exposed to plot advantage for stark to have a PIGadget to counter

There are  however, every other trick in the book Luke can resort to.

I'm particularly fond of that one where he space folds  his head off


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Being in a different dimension doesn't change anything as Ghost is a defense against phasing attacks not porting. How many times does this have to be repeated? Ghost just alters dimensional energy or whatever around Tony, not in him.

And ignoring that tangent which won't help no matter how many times its argued, Luke still has TP, TK and soul fucking attacks.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Ghost tech is all nice and fun, but it's also not an app on Tony's armor, but on Rhode's and maybe that shadow iron man, who isn't tony stark, nor does tony know where came from.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah that was for War Machine 2.0 right?


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Sounds like a dead Iron Man to me.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Yeah that was for War Machine 2.0 right?



Yup.

Another point is the fact that the reactor casing is not invulnerable. Odds are luke can yoink it off with sufficient tk.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Why the hell are we even arguing about this then if it's so irrelevant? Might as well just delete most of the last 6 pages.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Welp, sorry


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

Well since Iron Man doesn't have an real defensive options on the table for Iron Man without prep, than Iron Man doesn't have any defense against Fold Space at all, which means Luke can just BFR him, or outright kill him immediately.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

But hey, at least we're not discussing telepathy again


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## willyvereb (Jul 26, 2012)

Yeah, although I would still like to hear a few things about Iron Man's durability and firepower.
That would decide the different between Iron Man being outclassed or simply getting beaten.
Because if he really maxes out on city levels, it's the former.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 26, 2012)

In Thor's story arc during the whole Disassembled storyline, Ironman blocks a hit from Loki using a Mjolinir if I recall. Whether that's an outlier or him just carrying a different field is hard to say. He does have tech to take hits from planet busters but whether he's carrying it on his armor needs to be specified. Certain armors can, not sure if Bleeding Edge is one of them. This would'nt help against telepathy or fold space but I'm guessing Tony has a tech to counter the latter?Know he does for the former if he's allowed to carry it.

What's the standard of Bleeding Edge(it matters because depending on what tech he carries without prep he may or may not win this), guessing he keeps the typical stuff with some extra H4X like Nanotech.


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## strongarm85 (Jul 26, 2012)

willyvereb said:


> Yeah, although I would still like to hear a few things about Iron Man's durability and firepower.
> That would decide the different between Iron Man being outclassed or simply getting beaten.
> Because if he really maxes out on city levels, it's the former.



The answer is outclassed.

The way the force works, Luke could use fold space on Tony's body directly and kill him, so the durability of the suit is non factor.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Bleeding Edge is complicated to describe... It's carbon/steel nanotube hybrid matrix held together by induced electromagnetic fields 

Did that help?

Essentially it's like a giant suit made of smart reactor powered steel noodles and lenses


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## Hidalgo (Jul 26, 2012)

Some sort of zombie said:


> Well, in that case Iron Man probably blasts his light saber out of Luke's hand, Luke might be able to win though if he has that weird electricity that goes directly past armour. But it dosent look like it's in his favor without mindrape hax. I don't know much about expanded Luke though.



That much is apparent. You completely ignored Telekinesis for one thing.



Fang said:


> Country to continental TK minimum,



Source?

Notext.

Luke's TK is large-building-level at most.

But that's all he needs to instantaneously grab Iron Man, once he sees/senses him, and then Force Crushes him.

/Thread.


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Other then Luke's TK > being a Super Star Destroyer, wiping out artifical black holes with his control, throwing bombs at relativistic speeds, and stating that TKing Star Destroyers is easier then putting illusions, as well as withstanding a telekinetic attack from an entire race that couldn't budge him a centimeter, absolutely wrong.

And they are in the respect thread, then again its you dupe-kun so screw it, not paying attention to you after this.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 26, 2012)

Wombat presented me this low-end calc for Luke's TK


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## Hidalgo (Jul 26, 2012)

Fang said:


> Other then Luke's TK > being a Super Star Destroyer,



The Star Destroyer one was likely the only one where he didn't have aid from anything.

I remember the Feat happening somewhere in one of the recent novels, but can you explain what happened? Did Luke actually throw one? Manipulate it through a Gravityless-void? What?

And I'm not sure that even a massive Star Destroyer weighs as much as a Country.

That's probably stretching it some..


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## Fang (Jul 26, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Wombat presented me this low-end calc for Luke's TK



Yeah, the Megador is longer and somewhat larger then the Executor. Luke ain't nothing to fuck with.


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

neither does luke cap at building level, nor does tony's durability


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## Hidalgo (Jul 26, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> wut             .



Some folks here think that apparently Luke has Country-level TK.

I'm a pretty avid Star Wars fan and I haven't seen much evidence of that.

Though granted, I don't read the shitty new series.

The people at KMC figured out a few years back that Darth Nihilus has the strongest TK abilities among the Jedi/Sith in the mythos. 

Luke's TK is somewhere below Nihilus's - and it definitely isn't country-level.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 26, 2012)

How much do you think a country weighs ? 


I'm mildly curious


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## Banhammer (Jul 26, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> How much do you think a country weighs ?
> 
> 
> I'm mildly curious



Oh God

Why would you do that?


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