# Luffy vs Mihawk



## YonkoDrippy (May 9, 2022)

Current G5 Luffy vs Mihawk

*Restrictions*: None

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sablés (May 9, 2022)

Assuming Mihawk plays anywhere in the same ballpark as Kaido, he'll win because Luffy is still weak to cutting attacks.
Crazy how far we've come when Mihawk needs hype/powerscale and a type advantage to deal with Luffy

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Eustathios (May 9, 2022)

Mihawk wins in a difficult fight


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## Rp4lyf (May 9, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Assuming Mihawk plays anywhere in the same ballpark as Kaido, he'll win because Luffy is still weak to cutting attacks.
> Crazy how far we've come when Mihawk needs hype/powerscale and a type advantage to deal with Luffy


Nah, Luffy was even taken cutting attacks and then tooka boro breath on top of that. And keep in mind this is 1% health Luffy. Also Luffy was allowing himself to get hti.

And chapter 1037, showed with Haki, BASE Luffy deflects cutting attacks with ease. Now add Gear 5 on top of that, its a over for Mihawk High diff.


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## A Optimistic (May 9, 2022)

Mihawk can push Kaido to extreme difficulty. So far, Luffy hasn’t shown that he can do the same yet.

Mihawk wins.


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## Van Basten (May 9, 2022)

Mihawk.


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## The crazy hacker (May 9, 2022)

Mihawk extreme diff.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Well actually (May 9, 2022)

World's strongest trainer wins.

Reactions: Funny 1 | GODA 1


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## Gabzy (May 9, 2022)

Shanks has to be stronger than Luffy, and he is Mihawk's equal

Mihawk extreme diffs

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## Heart Over Blade (May 9, 2022)

If Luffy's aCoC+aCoA barrier holds up against Kaidou's strongest attack without Kaidou's attack getting through and melting his hand,
it should also hold up against Mihawk to prevent his blade from getting through the CoA hardening + aCoA+ aCoC armor. He's done this successfully against Kaidou's wind slashes, but failed to do so last time since he was concentrating all his energy and Haki into his mega fist. Luffy should have no problem clashing with Mihawk since he has an aCoC advantage.The problem is the attacks that Luffy doesn't see coming. But look at this this way, Mihawk will also be taking full damage from attacks that he doesn't defend in time. Garp had the same disadvantage against Roger and he still manages to be on the same tier.

I think it can go either way. Just because I don't see Oda portraying Luffy losing to Shanks after this.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mihawk (May 9, 2022)

If G5 can be used constantly without restriction or limits, then Luffy pushes Mihawk to extreme diff or maybe even wins. 

However, if limitations are applied via being gassed or any timer/haki limit; he'll only push Mihawk to high diff at most. Same goes for any legitimate Yonko level fighter or legend.


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## Mihawk (May 9, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> If Luffy's aCoC+aCoA barrier holds up against Kaidou's strongest attack without Kaidou's attack getting through and melting his hand,
> it should also hold up against Mihawk to prevent his blade from getting through the CoA hardening + aCoA+ aCoC armor. Luffy should have no problem clashing with Mihawk since he has an aCoC advantage.
> *The problem is the attacks that Luffy doesn't see coming. But look at this this way, Mihawk will also be taking full damage from attacks that he doesn't defend in time.*
> 
> I think it can go either way. Just because I don't see Oda portraying Luffy losing to Shanks after this.



I can agree with this in general.

The only thing I want to point out is the bolded, which is to say that with Mihawk's presumed level of CoO (Clairvoyant/Hawk Eyes) and his level of CoA (Yoru), he should be able to counter whatever aCoA armour or hardening Luffy has, on top of FS.

As for the question of aCoC, it's a matter of confirmation. Luffy has the advantage in that regard, only because he's shown to have it while we're still waiting for Mihawk to be a confirmed user. Chances are he probably is though, considering both Zoro and Shanks are confirmed users of aCoC, but we'll see..

The more pressing question will be, is if Mihawk's eyes are fast enough to track G5/Nika considering the latter is extremely quick.


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## Heart Over Blade (May 9, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> As for the question of aCoC, it's a matter of confirmation. Luffy has the advantage in that regard, only because he's shown to have it while we're still waiting for Mihawk to be a confirmed user


He needs to be an implied user of basic CoC before we even get to confirmation. So we're a long way from being able to use him having aCoC in an argument. Until he does, only Luffy has aCoC in this battle.


Mihawk said:


> The only thing I want to point out is the bolded, which is to say that with Mihawk's presumed level of CoO (Clairvoyant/Hawk Eyes) and his level of CoA (Yoru), he should be able to counter whatever aCoA armour or hardening Luffy has, on top of FS.


If by countering Luffy's Haki armor you meaning clashing with, then sure. But getting through that armor that Luffy manages to put up in time is another matter, as even Kaidou's strongest form is having trouble. They are both going to have attacks that land clean or against an improperly erected Haki defense. Mihawk is presumed to have great CoO, but has he demonstrated FS? If not we can't just give him the advantage in that category based on his nickname.  The nickname Clairvoyant was an early idea that got scrapped in favor of Hawk Eyes


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## Amol (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk is obviously not as strong as Kaido.

Idea of him giving extreme diff to Kaido is hilarious. Like on what ground he is being treated as Kaido's equal?

Just fanboy wanking?

Kaido high diffs Mihawk.

He probably defeats current fresh Luffy with same diff too.

I think Luffy vs Mihawk will go either way extreme diff now. I favour Mihawk for the time being.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (May 10, 2022)

Luffy extreme


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> He needs to be an implied user of basic CoC before we even get to confirmation. *So we're a long way from being able to use him having aCoC in an argument. *Until he does, only Luffy has aCoC in this battle.


I disagree. 

If anything, he actually already has more implication as an advanced user of this form of Haki, than the basic variant. 

1) Zoro awakening it and King asking if he had "kingly ambitions", on cue with the flashback of Luffy saying "The WSS, huh?" 
2) His former rival Shanks having it. 
3) And more prominently, Kaido stated that aCoC is Haki that "only a select few of the very strongest possess" or something to that effect. Mihawk having one of the only 3 known "World's Strongest" titles pretty much meets the requirements for this. 

So I would actually argue that he has more than enough to imply that he's a user. 

Of course, that's different from being a confirmed user in a Battledome thread. So I guess we'll wait for that confirmation.



Heart Over Blade said:


> Mihawk is presumed to have great CoO, but has he demonstrated FS? If not we can't just give him the advantage in that category based on his nickname.  The nickname Clairvoyant was an early idea that got scrapped in favor of Hawk Eyes



When Luffy first used FS against him in Marineford, he did comment that he was "level-headed", which at least implies he knows of the ability. Him parrying Vista effortlessly while looking at Luffy also seems like something an FS user would be capable of, as it requires reading and reacting an opponent. But yeah, far from confirmation. 

Still, Clairvoyant and Hawk Eyes were epithets revealed by Oda, which pretty much suggests or gives us a hint of Mihawk's potential abilities. Mihawk has got to be one of the most well rounded fighters in the series, as he has no devil fruit. Hard for him to reach his position as a fighter without being a versatile and advanced Haki user. Furthermore, he was a rival to one of the best Haki users out there, and a teacher to another pretty good one. 

Anyways, just my 2 cents. Luffy has the feats. Mihawk has the hype.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chip Skylark (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk can push Kaido to extreme difficulty. So far, Luffy hasn’t shown that he can do the same yet.
> 
> Mihawk wins.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk wins.

If Kaido had a sword instead of a club he would've killed Luffy several times since G5 was unlocked


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## Strobacaxi (May 10, 2022)

Amol said:


> Like on what ground he is being treated as Kaido's equal?


Being Shanks' equal.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


>



What seems to be the issue my dear friend?


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk can push Kaido to extreme difficulty. So far, Luffy hasn’t shown that he can do the same yet.
> 
> Mihawk wins.


 neither has Mihawk

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> neither has Mihawk



Mihawk is confirmed stronger than two Yonko at minimum. The same can’t be said for Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | GODA 1 | Optimistic 2


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk is confirmed stronger than two Yonko at minimum. The same can’t be said for Luffy.


show me the feats that put him above even snakeman Luffy first


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> show me the feats that put him above even snakeman Luffy first



Do you need feats of Blackbeard being above Snakeman Luffy as well, or do you accept that Blackbeard is stronger due to his Yonko title? 


The current Yonko/Mihawk ranking is Kaido > Mihawk > Shanks > Blackbeard > Luffy > Big Mom. Very simple and straight forward.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

Looking forward to see how the Kaido bros who use Kaido’s title to put him above everyone work overtime to deny Mihawk’s WSS title.

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (May 10, 2022)

Until Luffy puts a Yonkou or admiral down with no additional assistance he pushes most of them to high/extreme diff and then takes a honourable loss.


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Do you need feats of Blackbeard being above Snakeman Luffy as well, or do you accept that Blackbeard is stronger due to his Yonko title?
> 
> 
> The current Yonko/Mihawk ranking is Kaido > Mihawk > Shanks > Blackbeard > Luffy > Big Mom. Very simple and straight forward.


nothing more than headcanon  maybe Teach is due for another powerup.


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## trance (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> What seems to be the issue my dear friend?


probably you saying luffy hasn't shown he can push kaido to extreme diff


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> nothing more than headcanon  maybe Teach is due for another powerup.



Mihawk > Shanks > Big Mom is headcanon? In what way?


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Looking forward to see how the Kaido bros who use Kaido’s title to put him above everyone work overtime to deny Mihawk’s WSS title.


technically Mihawk lost that title the moment King loaned his sword to Kaido for a minute

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4 | Creative 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

trance said:


> probably you saying luffy hasn't shown he can push kaido to extreme diff



he hasn’t yet so far. Kaido seems confident that he can vaporize him


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## trance (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Kaido seems confident that he can vaporize him

Reactions: Funny 4


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk > Shanks > Big Mom is headcanon? In what way?


Shanks is also almost featless

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> Shanks is also almost featless



he clashed with Whitebeard on his IV, sent Kaido back to onigashima, included in kaido’s top 5 unlike linlin, and isn’t currently in a ditch due to two rookies

shanks > big mom is 99% confirmed at this point

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Kamisori (May 10, 2022)

Can current Luffy beat Zoro's EoS goal?

I say no.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

While Luffy can beat any admiral without G5, he loses to Mihawk.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> he clashed with Whitebeard on his IV, sent Kaido back to onigashima, included in kaido’s top 5 unlike linlin, and isn’t currently in a ditch due to two rookies
> 
> shanks > big mom is 99% confirmed at this point


emphasis on the IV, sent Kaido back under unknown circumstances, a panel taken widely out of context, and who know if he would be. 

there is no really placing him, all he really has shown is sky splitting that has been replicated by Kaido and LinLin basically sparring + blocking Akainu very casually. 

He might be lower or higher than our estimate. Anything Mihawk related is already outdated by the duration of the entire series after Luffy got his first bounty when it was revealed they hadn't dueled since Shanks' little accident with Lor D Coast, and they weren't going to either.


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> *a panel taken widely out of context*,


What exactly do you think the context of that panel is, besides the only people Kaido views as being able to compete with him?


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> emphasis on the IV, sent Kaido back under unknown circumstances, a panel taken widely out of context, and who know if he would be.
> 
> there is no really placing him, all he really has shown is sky splitting that has been replicated by Kaido and LinLin basically sparring + blocking Akainu very casually.
> 
> He might be lower or higher than our estimate. Anything Mihawk related is already outdated by the duration of the entire series after Luffy got his first bounty when it was revealed they hadn't dueled since Shanks' little accident with Lor D Coast, and they weren't going to either.


Emphasis on IV? Kaido still put shanks power alongside Primebeard and the pirate king, so no it’s just not emphasis on IV. What do you mean shanks and Kaido is under unknown circumstances? We were told they clashed. Then Kaido put shanks beside the swordsman that almost killed him and has had him terrified for 20 years and beside the guy who conquered everyone through his haki. Therefore it’s obvious that shanks drew his sword and gave Kaido and king a lesson in what happens when you fight top tier swordsmen

why wasn’t your girl Linlin included in that panel? I’ll tell you why, it’s because she’s the weakest yonko. Kaido said he only got serious this arc when fighting luffy.

you keep focusing on shanks lack of feats but ignoring linlin’s awful feats lol. Always better to have a small list of amazing feats then a long list of awful feats. Imagine turning a blind eye to Linlin currently being buried in a ditch by two rookies and having the audacity to type with a straight face that we don’t know if shanks is above her.

are you for real my dude? The only question in a shanks vs Linlin match up is what difficulty Linlin can push shanks to, not the winner of the match. The winner will always be shanks.

also lmao at you saying anything mihawk related is outdated like he doesn’t have a title telling you in clear English that he’s the strongest swordsmen. Kaidobros shouting how Kaido is the WSC and WSP but saying titles are outdated in the same breath

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (May 10, 2022)

Would Kaido be the undisputed strongest character if he fought with anything but a random club?


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> What exactly do you think the context of that panel is, besides the only people Kaido views as being able to compete with him?


just a short list of examples. not a definitive top 5. its a very exclusive club sure but it didnt contain all the members, just the members from the top of a drunken onis dome.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> just a short list of examples. not a definitive top 5. its a very exclusive club sure but it didnt contain all the members, just the members from the top of a drunken onis dome.



there’s no excuse for Kaido to list 5 pirates while comparing them to luffy (a pirate) and then exclude Linlin

she didn’t make the cut because she’s weaker than all 5 of the pirates Kaido thought of.

Kaido duelled her recently and he was disappointed


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Emphasis on IV? Kaido still put shanks power alongside Primebeard and the pirate king, so no it’s just not emphasis on IV. What do you mean shanks and Kaido is under unknown circumstances? We were told they clashed. Then Kaido put shanks beside the swordsman that almost killed him and has had him terrified for 20 years and beside the guy who conquered everyone through his haki. Therefore it’s obvious that shanks drew his sword and gave Kaido and king a lesson in what happens when you fight top tier swordsmen


this isn't even headcanon, this is straight up fanfiction. 


A Optimistic said:


> why wasn’t your girl Linlin included in that panel? I’ll tell you why, it’s because she’s the weakest yonko. Kaido said he only got serious this arc when fighting luffy.


headcanon 


A Optimistic said:


> you keep focusing on shanks lack of feats but ignoring linlin’s awful feats lol. Always better to have a small list of amazing feats then a long list of awful feats. Imagine turning a blind eye to Linlin currently being buried in a ditch by two rookies and having the audacity to type with a straight face that we don’t know if shanks is above her.


bruh you really seem to have it out for Lin Lin in a Luffy vs Mihawk thread  rent free with water and electricity. 


A Optimistic said:


> are you for real my dude? The only question in a shanks vs Linlin match up is what difficulty Linlin can push shanks to, not the winner of the match. The winner will always be shanks.


headcanon 


A Optimistic said:


> also lmao at you saying anything mihawk related is outdated like he doesn’t have a title telling you in clear English that he’s the strongest swordsmen. Kaidobros shouting how Kaido is the WSC and WSP but saying titles are outdated in the same breath


well it seems like any shred of Shanks' swordmanhood went out with his other arm. He might be the worlds strongest Paralympic fencer or something but that's about the size of it, they haven't fought in a decade as per canon. 

and I never tried to disqualify Mihawk's title, we were talking about placing Shanks. and at the end of the day he has no feats outside of splitting the sky.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> this isn't even headcanon, this is straight up fanfiction.
> 
> headcanon
> 
> ...



claiming Linlin is the weakest Yonko doesn’t mean I have anything against her. At the end of the day, someone has to be the weakest out of the group and sexist author Oda makes it very easy to figure out who it is

anyways there’s no point continuing this discussion with you if you’re going to call actual things that happened in the manga “headcanon”

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> claiming Linlin is the weakest Yonko doesn’t mean I have anything against her. At the end of the day, someone has to be the weakest out of the group and sexist author Oda makes it very easy to figure out who it is
> 
> anyways there’s no point continuing this discussion with you if you’re going to call actual things that happened in the manga “headcanon”


"actual things that happened in the manga "


> Therefore it’s obvious that shanks drew his sword and gave Kaido and king a lesson in what happens when you fight top tier swordsmen





> I’ll tell you why, it’s because she’s the weakest yonko





> The only question in a shanks vs Linlin match up is what difficulty Linlin can push shanks to, not the winner of the match. The winner will always be shanks.


this is you making your own conclusions, none of it is canon. deal with it.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> "actual things that happened in the manga "
> 
> 
> 
> this is you making your own conclusions, none of it is canon. deal with it.



what part of the marines saying they clashed are you denying?


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> just a short list of examples. not a definitive top 5. its a very exclusive club sure but it didnt contain all the members, just the members from the top of a drunken onis dome.


Nowhere is that remotely hinted at. His dialogue is pretty clear. There are only a few able to compete with him. Then we are shown who he is referring to. This sounds like sour grapes because it didn't include a fave.


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Luffy vs Mihawk turned into Big Mom VS Shanks

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Luffy vs Mihawk turned into Big Mom VS Shanks


Big Mom is weaker than Shanks. It's not even debateable

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Nowhere is that remotely hinted at. His dialogue is pretty clear. There are only a few able to compete with him. Then we are shown who he is referring to. This sounds like sour grapes because it didn't include a fave.


I'd find it odd that there is no mention of Garp for example, whom he has witnessed fighting first hand.  

We also have information from Roger that he enjoyed playing games with Garp and Sengoku.


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Big Mom is weaker than Shanks. It's not even debateable


I do agree.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> I'd find it odd that there is no mention of Garp for example, whom he has witnessed fighting first hand.
> 
> We also have information from Roger that he enjoyed playing games with Garp and Sengoku.



one can argue that since luffy is a pirate, Kaido was only comparing luffy to other pirates 

unfortunately for you Linlin is not a marine so you’re gonna have to come up with another excuse chief


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> I'd find it odd that there is no mention of Garp for example, whom he has witnessed fighting first hand.
> 
> We also have information from Roger that he enjoyed playing games with Garp and Sengoku.


Garp can't compete with those 6 breh. It's your tier list that needs adjusting.

Roger said Garp and Sengoku were more interesting than the fodder he was choking. It doesn't mean they are on the same level. Contrast that to WB, who he speaks about moments later. He outright says fighting WB means risking his life. Garp and Sengoku are more interesting than fodder...

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk is at worse Zoro’s next big fight which puts him around Kaidou level as Zoro seems to be one antagonist behind Luffy in P2 power progression. If Mihawk is at Kaidou level five or take, Luffy could loose as Mihawk is likely more skillful of a fighter then Kaidou who relies more on durability and tanking; he also has Cutting attacks which Luffy can’t take nearly as man of compared to Kaidou’s Blunt damage.

I also think this kind of fits with what we saw from Katakuri and King. For example I don’t think WCI Luffy is beating King due to not being able to deal enough damage; even though Zoro I’m not sure beats Katakuri as Kat could FS evade till he runs out of Haki. Zoro and Luffy tend to fight different types of enemies being my point


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Luffy vs Mihawk turned into Big Mom VS Shanks



Can’t proceed any further in this discussion without establishing that Linlin is the weakest Yonko and that Luffy is the second weakest Yonko.

How can we even begin to discuss legends like Kaido, Shanks, and Mihawk without establishing that Luffy and Linlin are a step below them?

It’s the same way you got to discuss algebra and trigonometry before you can begin discussing calculus.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> one can argue that since luffy is a pirate, Kaido was only comparing luffy to other pirates
> 
> unfortunately for you Linlin is not a marine so you’re gonna have to come up with another excuse chief



that works great for me thanks   it even further shrinks any frame of reference when it comes to placing shanks.


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Garp can't compete with those 6 breh. It's your tier list that needs adjusting.
> 
> Roger said Garp and Sengoku were more interesting than the fodder he was choking. It doesn't mean they are on the same level. Contrast that to WB, who he speaks about moments later. He outright says fighting WB means risking his life. Garp and Sengoku are more interesting than fodder...


that is a possibility, I must admit.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Sablés (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> "actual things that happened in the manga "
> 
> 
> 
> this is you making your own conclusions, none of it is canon. deal with it.


Bruh. How did you miss your boy absolutely disrespecting Linlin with this?



Fighting Kaido was her claim to fame, then he says he wasn't even serious against her.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Can’t proceed any further in this discussion without establishing that Linlin is the weakest Yonko and that Luffy is the second weakest Yonko.
> 
> How can we even begin to discuss legends like Kaido, Shanks, and Mihawk without establishing that Luffy and Linlin are a step below them?
> 
> It’s the same way you got to discuss algebra and trigonometry before you can begin discussing Calculus.



In no particular order, Akainu, Shanks, Mihawk, and Teach will be the most important and relevant top tiers now once Wano is over. They are the true top dogs remaining.

Kaido will get his recognition in spite of being defeated for fighting a gauntlet. Big Mom won’t get the same portrayal, her era is over.

Oda is going to focus on those 4 in the next saga I feel like. They have been built up forever (10 years+), and now that we’re near the endgame, it makes sense for them to take center stage.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> that works great for me thanks   it even further shrinks any frame of reference when it comes to placing shanks.



placing shanks isn’t hard. He’s above Linlin, tiny bit weaker Kaido, and on the same level as Roger and Primebeard

Reactions: Like 2


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Bruh. How did you miss your boy absolutely disrespecting Linlin with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting Kaido was her claim to fame, then he says he wasn't even serious against her.


I don't think either of them were supposed to be fighting seriously. They just casually split the sky while sparring basically. 

very reminiscent of Shanks and WB splitting the sky while the old man was just a moment a go sitting in a chair and then they had sake in the very next panel. 

They never fought or had intention of war, despite what Kaido's bipolar ass told Lin Lin on the phone - he was quite quick to jump on board with the alliance.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Bruh. How did you miss your boy absolutely disrespecting Linlin with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting Kaido was her claim to fame, then he says he wasn't even serious against her.



lets not forget when Kaido called linlin’s performance on the rooftop pathetic as well

Reactions: Funny 9 | Winner 1


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## Sablés (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> I don't think either of them were supposed to be fighting seriously. They just casually split the sky while sparring basically.


Do we know this though? We know Kaido held back. Do we know the same for Linlin without making assumptions, barring missing her homies? Do her feats place her in line with Kaido's strength even with them? What about portrayal? No chance, she loses on all fronts.

Big Mom has feats worthy of the Yonko but she's the one who has something to prove when it comes to stacking up against Kaido and those he views as his equals.



KBD said:


> They never fought or had intention of war


Pretty sure they did. That's what marching into another yonko's territory despite being explicitly warned, means


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> placing shanks isn’t hard. He’s above Linlin, tiny bit weaker Kaido, and on the same level as Roger and Primebeard


absolutely nothing he has done puts him up there, sorry.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> absolutely nothing he has done puts him up there, sorry.



so Kaido decided to think about shanks alongside Xebec, Roger, Primebeard, and the swordsman oden who’s scared him for two decades for…what reason exactly? For shanks to be weaker than all of them?

why can’t you Kaido bros just be happy with Kaido being the strongest? Why do you guys also have to be greedy by lying to yourselves and denying that linlin isn’t the weakest Yonko. Such a greedy fanbase I swear…never satisfied

Reactions: Funny 2


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

You’re also ignoring how the marines said shanks and Kaido CLASHED 


tell me how that’s headcanon kbd. And tell me why Kaido and king ran back to Onigashima with their tails between their legs. And then tell me why after witnessing shanks power that Kaido decided to picture him alongside the pirate king, the same pirate king who gave shanks his straw hat and considered shanks his successor

Reactions: Winner 2


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> so Kaido decided to think about shanks alongside Xebec, Roger, Primebeard, and the swordsman oden who’s scared him for two decades for…what reason exactly? For shanks to be weaker than all of them?
> 
> why can’t you Kaido bros just be happy with Kaido being the strongest? Why do you guys also have to be greedy by lying to yourselves and denying that linlin isn’t the weakest Yonko. Such a greedy fanbase I swear…never satisfied


There was a clear difference between Roger and Oden  Oden also fought Kaido when he was straight out of pirate school or something. So there!


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> There was a clear difference between Roger and Oden  Oden also fought Kaido when he was straight out of pirate school or something. So there!



many years had passed between the Roger that low diffed oden and the oden that low diffed Kaido 

Prove there’s a big gap between the latter oden and Roger, because in kaido’s eyes they are on the same level


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> many years had passed between the Roger that low diffed oden and the oden that low diffed Kaido
> 
> Prove there’s a big gap between the latter oden and Roger, because in kaido’s eyes they are on the same level


how did we go from people who could fight me to equals? the headcanon deepens once more.


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

I hope you’re not about to tell me that kaido’s wrong about kaido’s own tier list. Thought you Kaido bros were supposed to actually like the guy and respect what he says


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> how did we go from people who could fight me to equals? the headcanon deepens once more.



where did I use the word equals? I said on the same level


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I hope you’re not about to tell me that kaido’s wrong about kaido’s own tier list. Thought you Kaido bros were supposed to actually like the guy and respect what he says


frankly I dont think its his tierlist. its not like he is an OLer. 

second of all I have never respected his opinion on most things after finding out about the true nature of the Smile trade. You can check out my post history if you want to

Reactions: Funny 3


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## KBD (May 10, 2022)

people have a hard time believing I like Kaido-san for his design, character and story. 

they always insist I only care about him because he is the strongest

Reactions: Funny 5 | Friendly 3


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

KBD said:


> people have a hard time believing I like Kaido-san for his design, character and story.
> 
> they always insist I only care about him because he is the strongest



only thing that matters in the battledome is strength, strength, and more strength

Reactions: Funny 6


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## WeakMCinTraining (May 10, 2022)

I thought this was a Mihawk vs Luffy thread.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Yeah Kaido’s tier list is pretty shitty tbh.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Empathy (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk extreme difficulty. Bladed attacks are more effective against Luffy.

Reactions: Like 3


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## YonkoDrippy (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Yeah Kaido’s tier list is pretty shitty tbh.


Ikr, like where tf was Garp at.

Prime Garp is easily top 5 in the verse.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Ikr, like where tf was Garp at.
> 
> Prime Garp is easily top 5 in the verse.


Objectively speaking, Oden being ranked ahead of Prime Garp, Mihawk, Big Mom, Sengoku, Shiki and more really does raise questions.

I think it’s logical to assume that it is _indeed _a list of the individuals that Kaido has personally faced and deemed worthy of fighting him.

We know that Xebec was his former captain and most likely whooped his ass when he was a kid.

We know he chased Roger and Primebeard in terms of legacy and has Roger at the top in terms of Haki.

We know Oden gave him a permanent scar and garnered his respect, while Shanks intercepted him at Marineford and stopped him. These were all rivals or benchmarks at one point or another 

We never knew if he even met Mihawk or Sengoku

Then again, one can make the argument that he should’ve seen Garp at God Valley, and he and Lin Lin know each other very well.

The main issue is Oden

Reactions: Agree 2


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

I feel like Kaido was only comparing pirates to luffy, it’s the only way that garp not being included even though he fisted Xebec makes sense in my mind

he would also only include pirates he’s seen fight or pirates he’s fought himself, which makes sense why mihawk is not included

so ya there’s a logical explanation for garp, mihawk, and Linlin not being included. Garp is a marine, Kaido has never seen mihawk fight, and Linlin is weaker than the pirates Kaido thought of

makes sense

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Kaido’s list is head canon anyways. No different than him claiming to be incapable of being taken down by anyone else.

I’ll be damned if heavyweights like Sengoku, Mihawk, Akainu etc. are weaker than the 5 year twerker...they’d lose maybe in a twerking contest I guess.

Also Teach and Shiki aren’t on the list either, so there’s that.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Chip Skylark (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Objectively speaking, Oden being ranked ahead of Prime Garp, Mihawk, Big Mom, Sengoku, Shiki and more really does raise questions.
> 
> I think it’s logical to assume that it is _indeed _a list of the individuals that Kaido has personally faced and deemed worthy of fighting him.
> 
> ...


Or you could just be mistaken about where these characters stand relative to one another. Find it weird that you’d rather question a character with actual experience in a verse than re-evaluate your own tier list when the particular objection you have never directly underperformed relative to the characters you hold above him.

And as you brought up there’s very little reason why he wouldn’t be familiar with characters like Garp. 

It’d be different if, say, we saw Oden fight  Garp and the outcome contradicted Kaido’s tiering. But really you just never personally held Oden in that regard despite his feats/hype so Kaido’s tiering is just shitty? That’s weak.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Or you could just be mistaken about where these characters stand relative to one another. Find it weird that you’d rather question a character with actual experience in a verse than re-evaluate your own tier list when the particular objection you have never directly underperformed relative to the characters you hold above him.
> 
> And as you brought up there’s very little reason why he wouldn’t be familiar with characters like Garp.
> 
> It’d be different if, say, we saw Oden fight  Garp and the outcome contradicted Kaido’s tiering. But really you just never personally held Oden in that regard despite his feats/hype so Kaido’s tiering is just shitty? That’s weak.



Don't see how I could be mistaken if I'm not drawing any definitive conclusions and simply providing an analysis or laying out a possible interpretation for why something is the way it is. Speculation, which is what we're all doing. I have no definitive tier list, and hence I have nothing to re-evaluate. To me, rankings from the legends to the Yonko are fairly a fluid situation. On the other hand, you have repeatedly jumped to conclusions on who you think is stronger, etc.

If anything, I'm validating Kaido's list by providing a possible reasoning for why he holds them in such regard. As you say, it is due to a character with actual experience. In Kaido's case, it is his experience with such characters and his interactions with them that we know of that justifies his ranking, since he has interacted with every single one of the individuals in his tier list.

Furthermore at the end of the day, Kaido is a villain and villains can be proven wrong. His list is who _he _regards as the strongest anyways.

Why would we take his word on characters like Mihawk, Blackbeard, Sengoku, Akainu, if he's never been known to fight or interact with them in any capacity?

So Oden's hype/feats are now superior to Prime Garp's??   The man whose portrayal is no greater than the right hand to Roger...of course I wouldn't hold him in the same regard as Whitebeard, Roger, or Xebec, why should I? Isn't it obvious that he was inferior? There is literally nothing suggesting he was on their level, nothing but oh yeah Kaido's list....

What's weak is not seeing the blatant contradictions in his list and taking it as gospel, rather than just accepting the _possibility _of it being based on his own personal experiences.


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## Captain Quincy (May 10, 2022)

Wano's powerscaling is messy tbh


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## Captain Quincy (May 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Or you could just be mistaken about where these characters stand relative to one another. Find it weird that you’d rather question a character with actual experience in a verse than re-evaluate your own tier list when the particular objection you have never directly underperformed relative to the characters you hold above him.
> 
> And as you brought up there’s very little reason why he wouldn’t be familiar with characters like Garp.
> 
> It’d be different if, say, we saw Oden fight  Garp and the outcome contradicted Kaido’s tiering. But really you just never personally held Oden in that regard despite his feats/hype so Kaido’s tiering is just shitty? That’s weak.


Kaido tier list doesn't have Enel so it's automatically trash

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chip Skylark (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Don't see how I could be mistaken if I'm not drawing any definitive conclusions and simply providing an analysis or laying out a possible interpretation for why something is the way it is. Speculation, which is what we're all doing. I have no definitive tier list, and hence I have nothing to re-evaluate. To me, rankings from the legends to the Yonko are fairly a fluid situation. On the other hand, you have repeatedly jumped to conclusions on who you think is stronger, etc.
> 
> If anything, I'm validating Kaido's list by providing a possible reasoning for why he holds them in such regard. As you say, it is due to a character with actual experience. In Kaido's case, it is his experience with such characters and his interactions with them that we know of that justifies his ranking, since he has interacted with every single one of the individuals in his tier list.
> 
> ...


You outright called Kaido's tier list shitty. How is that not drawing any definitive conclusions? 



> I’ll be damned if heavyweights like Sengoku, Mihawk, Akainu etc. are weaker than the 5 year twerker...they’d lose maybe in a twerking contest I guess.



Like come on, lol. You clearly never had any intention of re-evaluation your ranking. For you it's obviously more a matter of adjusting the narrative to conform to a tiering that you already had established in your mind than genuinely trying to rationalize Oden's placing.

It's totally fair to make objections for characters that he may have never interacted with like Mihawk, or Blackbeard.

But arguing that it was a list exclusive to pirates simply because Garp wasn't included even though there were no actual implications of that? The literal definition of confirmation bias.

Never definitively said that Oden's hype/feats are superior to Prime Garp's. However, it's a fact that they're not definitively below. Which is why it's so egregious for you to so firmly shut down Kaido's tiering based purely on what you already believe of them. Your opinion will never change if you just seek to twist every new development into somehow fitting what you already believed regardless of whether or not there's any actual implications of your conclusion.

Oden was a man that WB already believed was dangerous before he ever left Wano. He then grew several times stronger throughout his journeys across the world. His portrayal was never that of simply a right hand.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> You outright called Kaido's tier list shitty. How is that not drawing any definitive conclusions?



I was half trolling 



Chip Skylark said:


> Like come on, lol. You clearly never had any intention of re-evaluation your ranking. For you it's obviously more a matter of adjusting the narrative to conform to a tiering that you already had established in your mind than genuinely trying to rationalize Oden's placing.


I don't really have a ranking though lol. For me, the legends are marginally superior to everyone else, and the Yonko are all about even with each other. That's about it. Everything else in between goes either way in my mind. So no I haven't jumped to any conclusions.

How can I rationalise Oden's placing, when he is blatantly below the likes of at least 3 of the 5 guys in that list?





Chip Skylark said:


> It's totally fair to make objections for characters that he may have never interacted with like Mihawk, or Blackbeard.


Yes.

My objection with Oden is basically this.

In order to rationalise his placement, I would have to place him above the likes of:

-Prime Garp
-Big Mom
-Prime Sengoku
-Dracule Mihawk
-Blackbeard
-Shiki the Golden Lion
-Prime Silvers Rayleigh
-and the rest of the Admirals.

And well, I simply don't think Oden was great enough or showed anything that suggested he was stronger than all the above.



Chip Skylark said:


> *But arguing that it was a list exclusive to pirates simply because Garp wasn't included* even though there were no actual implications of that? The literal definition of confirmation bias.


I never made that argument, sir.

At least not in this thread.


However, to play devil's advocate; If I were to make that argument, it could be because Luffy is a pirate and Kaido was comparing him to great pirates? Hence, why marines would be excluded. Again, from what we know is that Garp gave Roger a run for his money back in the day. He and Roger took down the Rocks. Contrast that with Oden being a guest on Roger's ship and a subordinate of Whitebeard's?

Hence, why it can be questionable in the minds of fans for Oden to placed above Garp at his peak. Thus, multiple rationalisations exist to provide possible explanations for that omission or inclusion.


Chip Skylark said:


> Never definitively said that Oden's hype/feats are superior to Prime Garp's. However, it's a fact that they're not definitively below. Which is why it's so egregious for you to so firmly shut down Kaido's tiering based purely on what you already believe of them. Your opinion will never change if you just seek to twist every new development into somehow fitting what you already believed regardless of whether or not there's any actual implications of your conclusion.



Oden has never pushed Roger to the brink of death in countless battles. Fact is, he was swatted aside prior to awakening CoC. He also never took down the Rocks Pirates with Roger and Xebec, a legendary captain said to have rivalled the Pirate King. That, along with his title of Legendary Marine Hero and being mentioned alongside Roger and Sengoku by Old WB to Shanks, puts him above Oden in terms of hype.

But I haven't twisted anything. My interpretation of Oden fits perfectly within the context of the plot, considering that Oden and the other 4 characters are warriors that Kaido has personal experience with. It makes absolute sense.

And my opinions have changed. I used to have Kaido equal to or even below the likes of Shanks and Mihawk. Now I rank him as stronger, at least until they show something to the contrary. 



Chip Skylark said:


> Oden was a man that WB already believed was dangerous before he ever left Wano.


And Garp held Rayleigh on the same level of hype and renown as Whitebeard.

Oden being "dangerous" doesn't mean much, since I mean duh. Of course he was dangerous. He was still drastically weaker than Roger at the time.


Chip Skylark said:


> He then grew several times stronger throughout his journeys across the world.


Yes of course he grew stronger.


Chip Skylark said:


> His portrayal was never that of simply a right hand.



Yet the Marines like Sengoku and Sakazuki simply remember him as Whitebeard's 2nd division Commander...

Everything regarding his portrayal/hype/feats suggests that he was absolutely a bonafide/legitimate top tier.

Nothing suggests that he was top 5 or 6 of all time though, and hence my objection.


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## The crazy hacker (May 10, 2022)

Oden's placement was because he died 20 years ago when Kaido was weaker. He's still admiral level though.


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## YonkoDrippy (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Don't see how I could be mistaken if I'm not drawing any definitive conclusions and simply providing an analysis or laying out a possible interpretation for why something is the way it is. Speculation, which is what we're all doing. I have no definitive tier list, and hence I have nothing to re-evaluate. To me, rankings from the legends to the Yonko are fairly a fluid situation. On the other hand, you have repeatedly jumped to conclusions on who you think is stronger, etc.
> 
> If anything, I'm validating Kaido's list by providing a possible reasoning for why he holds them in such regard. As you say, it is due to a character with actual experience. In Kaido's case, it is his experience with such characters and his interactions with them that we know of that justifies his ranking, since he has interacted with every single one of the individuals in his tier list.
> 
> ...


Mihawk and Sengoku aren’t top 5 lol


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Mihawk and Sengoku aren’t top 5 lol



Neither is Oden

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Tsukuyomi (May 10, 2022)

Kaido's list is based on folks he fought personally and upfront. 
We know this cause :

. He had a rivalry with WB/Roger so clashes were inevitable. 
. He fought Shanks at marineford..... 
. He nearly got turned to fish kebab by Oden. 
. Xebec most likely beat him into shape. 

This is the option that requires the least assumptions so it is honestly the most likely.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5


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## Jackalinthebox (May 10, 2022)

We need an Oden vs Prime Garp thread?


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## A Optimistic (May 10, 2022)

Code said:


> Kaido's list is based on folks he fought personally and upfront.
> We know this cause :
> 
> . He had a rivalry with WB/Roger so clashes were inevitable.
> ...



exactly 

we all know the only reason people are making this complicated is because Linlin wasn’t included

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Yeah Kaido’s tier list is pretty shitty tbh.





Mihawk said:


> Objectively speaking, Oden being ranked ahead of Prime Garp, Mihawk, Big Mom, Sengoku, Shiki and more really does raise questions.
> 
> I think it’s logical to assume that it is _indeed _a list of the individuals that Kaido has personally faced and deemed worthy of fighting him.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how people have a problem with Oden. There are people crying that he is a Mary Sue. So clearly some people understand that Oda was doing his best to wank him, while at the same time want to downplay him. 

When he came back to Wano he was considered invincible by the narrator or knew no enemy his equal depending in the translation. This was with Prime Garp around. 

We also have the direct comparison with the three brothers Luffy, Ace and Sabo with Roger, WB and Oden. The intent is very clear from Oda that he is making a parallel between them. WB even calls Oden brother. Is it so unreasonable to think that an Oden who went through  a journey with Roger didn't come to be on his level? Given this brother relationship Oda was pushing? 

Also is it so unreasonable to think that a guy from a country based on Japan isn't going to be one of the absolute strongest? 

The intent with Oden is clear as day to me. I don't care for him as a character but Oda clearly wants him to be seen as the pinnacle of strength, on the same level as Roger, WB, Xebec, Shanks and Kaido. The best of the best. 

People can't handle that their tierlist is different from probably the most credible character to be making such a list. He was there for Rocks and saw Prime Garp, Rayleigh,  Sengoku etc. He was caught numerous times by the Yonko and marines. No one that we know of in the story has better first hand experience and observation of top tiers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 4


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## OG sama (May 10, 2022)

Luffy isn’t anymore weak to swords than anyone else.

It’s also pretty damn inconceivable to believe that a man with every Haki type Advanced doesn’t have a real counter to swords.

If Top Tier Haki isn’t enough to offset this supposed weakness that isn’t really a weakness then what exactly is?


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## Mihawk (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> I don't understand how people have a problem with Oden. There are people crying that he is a Mary Sue. So clearly some people understand that Oda was doing his best to wank him, while at the same time want to downplay him.
> 
> When he came back to Wano he was considered invincible by the narrator or knew no enemy his equal depending in the translation. This was with Prime Garp around.
> 
> ...



Solid arguments for sure. 

However, I don't remember when the Luffy Ace Sabo comparison was applied to them?

Yes the brother relationship isn't being disregarded. However, what about the parallel of Rayleigh and Roger? Was Rayleigh not even more of "a brother" to him considering the promise they made together, and all they experienced? It wouldn't be unreasonable either to think that Ray himself was considered to be on Roger or WB's level either.

And that's where I object with him being seen as the "best of the best". It's not so much that he should be excluded from that conversation (Kaido clearly thinks otherwise), but that the others in it or even outside of it have so much more going for them in terms of hype.

Prime Garp being the father of the most wanted/dangerous man in the world, and grandfather of the main character. Having a legendary status and having near death battles with Roger the Pirate King himself, and being put in the same conversation as Roger himself. Roger even said he trusted him as much as any of his crew.

Prime beard actually being the WSM and only known equal of Roger's in their Era, to Xebec being seen as so notorious that not only was he said to be Roger's first and perhaps greatest enemy/obstacle, but was so infamous that records of him had to be erased (since he delved into Void Century stuff). The man even led a crew of future Emperors.

And then there's Shanks, whose name speaks for himself. The man who clashed evenly with WB and became the first to split the heavens; stopped Akainu and the Marineford War, had Sengoku's respect, intercepted and prevented Kaido from interrupting, had legendary duels with Mihawk, and the list goes on.

Oden is great, but the totality of his hype doesn't really justify his placement with those guys if the barometer was based _purely _on strength.

I agree that Kaido has credibility due to having that first hand experience and observation of top tiers, but so does someone like Whitebeard, who mentioned both Garp and Sengoku with Roger. I mean Garp even has Ray and WB in the same league as each other, so an argument can easily be made that Rayleigh doesn't lose out to Oden at all in terms of hype either. And we don't know if Kaido actually fought some of these guys in the same way that he is heavily implied to have fought Roger and WB. For all we know, Oden made the list because he gave Kaido that scar when he was younger and left a tremendous impression on him. As for the Marines capturing him, it's also possible that he was simply apprehended without a 1 on 1 fight. As we've seen in Marineford, the Navy isn't above ganging up on an enemy in order to achieve their objective.


Overall, I'm not against Oden's inclusion based on potential. I think he could've been worthy of that placement had he never died and actually remained Shogun in his prime (which I believe was cut short by Kaido). However, I object to his placement with those individuals based on what he showed us while he was alive.


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## stealthblack (May 10, 2022)

Luffy high diffs at most. If he can tank kaidou attacks  he can tank vistas equal attacks


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## Gin (May 10, 2022)

mihawk couldn't touch luffy in mf and now he can hit back

gg

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Solid arguments for sure.
> 
> However, I don't remember when the Luffy Ace Sabo comparison was applied to them?
> 
> ...



Look at the placement of their bandages. Also  Sabo wanted to go on an adventure like Oden but couldn't leave his house like Oden couldn't leave Wano. Ace wanted a family like WB. Luffy wanted to be free like Roger.  Sabo and Ace were nigh equal as kids, so I imagine that WB and Oden eventually became near equal when Oden was done with his voyage with Roger. 

Most of what you're saying here isn't really combat related. Ray was Roger's partner. It doesn't mean they were on the same level. Just like Kid is clearly stronger than Killer. Roger trusted Garp like a crew member?? Okay, but that isn't really relevant.  

"*I agree that Kaido has credibility due to having that first hand experience and observation of top tiers, but so does someone like Whitebeard, who mentioned both Garp and Sengoku with Roger. I mean Garp even has Ray and WB in the same league as each other, so an argument can easily be made that Rayleigh doesn't lose out to Oden at all in terms of hype either. And we don't know if Kaido actually fought some of these guys in the same way that he is heavily implied to have fought Roger and WB. For all we know, Oden made the list because he gave Kaido that scar when he was younger and left a tremendous impression on him. As for the Marines capturing him, it's also possible that he was simply app*"
WB never made a combat related comment about them though. All he said was they knew how the seas were back then. Garp spoke about WB and Ray being legends, not that they were the same level of combat. Garp also called WB king of the seas, not Ray. Kaido doesn't need to have fought every top tier for him to make an assessment imo. He could have seen Garp outclassed by Roger or Xebec for instance. People love to wank that Buggy quote about WB tying once with Roger. Here we have a guy who had a front row seat to confrontations since the era of Rocks.

Reactions: Winner 2 | GODA 1


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## Fel1x (May 10, 2022)

Luffy extreme diffs because of bad match-up


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

Unless Kaido is not the WSC ( aka stronger than everyone ) Mihawk cant win vs Luffy because he himself is only hyped by WSS title and WSC trumps that .  So, i am not seeing the logic behind saying Mihawk wins vs Luffy . 
But if we learn that Kaido is not the strongest then and only then Mihawk has a chance to win vs Luffy .


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Unless Kaido is not the WSC ( aka stronger than everyone ) Mihawk cant win vs Luffy because he himself is only hyped by WSS title and WSC trumps that .  So, i am not seeing the logic behind saying Mihawk wins vs Luffy .
> But if we learn that Kaido is not the strongest then and only then Mihawk has a chance to win vs Luffy .


Kaido would fold Luffy like a beach chair if they were 1v1 on an island like Punk Hazard. 

Kaido, Shanks and Mihawk > Luffy

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## The crazy hacker (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Unless Kaido is not the WSC ( aka stronger than everyone ) Mihawk cant win vs Luffy because he himself is only hyped by WSS title and WSC trumps that .  So, i am not seeing the logic behind saying Mihawk wins vs Luffy .
> But if we learn that Kaido is not the strongest then and only then Mihawk has a chance to win vs Luffy .


Kaido is stronger than Luffy as he fought a gauntlet before him.

Mihawk should be extremely close to Kaido considering his hype.


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Kaido would fold Luffy like a beach chair if they were 1v1 on an island like Punk Hazard.
> 
> Kaido, Shanks and Mihawk > Luffy


nope fresh non dead G5 Luffy  vs Fresh Kaido would go the same way the G5 vs Kaido is going in the manga, more or less . Whoever wins it will be nothing less than extreme diff


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> *Kaido is stronger than Luffy* as he fought a gauntlet before him.
> 
> Mihawk should be extremely close to Kaido considering his hype.


Kaido was stronger than every version of Luffy except G5 L:uffy which Luffy got into after his death . So, in one hand Kaido fought lots of fodders while Luffy was actually dead b4 G5 (the actual fight )


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> nope fresh non dead G5 Luffy  vs Fresh Kaido would go the same way the G5 vs Kaido is going in the manga, more or less . Whoever wins it will be nothing less than extreme diff


Kaido would last way longer than Luffy though. given the gauntlet he's been through. He would high diff Luffy and Zoro would take over as captain.


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## The crazy hacker (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> Kaido was stronger than every version of Luffy except G5 L:uffy which Luffy got into after his death . So, in one hand Kaido fought lots of fodders while Luffy was actually dead b4 G5 (the actual fight )


G5 is slightly stronger than Kaido but Luffy cannot maintain G5 for that long. G5 healed Luffy a bit so Kaidos injuries are worse. Kaido is slightly stronger.

What's good though is that Luffy might surpass Kaido next arc.


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Kaido would last way longer than Luffy though. given the gauntlet he's been through. He would high diff Luffy and Zoro would take over as captain.


So would fresh G5 Luffy, who did not die secs ago, wount he ?


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> G5 is slightly stronger than Kaido but Luffy cannot maintain G5 for that long. G5 healed Luffy a bit so Kaidos injuries are worse. Kaido is slightly stronger.
> 
> What's good though is that Luffy might surpass Kaido next arc.


u have to consider Luffy was running out of haki b4 CP0 guy and got clubbed ,as a result he died ( well almost may b) . And then Luffy  wake up with G5 and said "i can fight a bit longer " . Luffy ran out of stamina then forced himself to get up to G5 again . Healed up part is our assumption , even if u think he healed up , that cost his stamina . its not some outside help ( like Zoros med etc )


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## Seraphoenix (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> So would fresh G5 Luffy, who did not die secs ago, wount he ?


So you think a fresh Luffy can go G5 and last as long as Kaido? When we know that awakening takes a large amount of stamina and is generally used as a last resort by characters like Mingo and Law? Luffy's damage output just won't cut it before he runs of out stamina. Kaido had to be softened up by a gauntlet and carrying Onigashima.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The crazy hacker (May 10, 2022)

o0Shinthi0o said:


> u have to consider Luffy was running out of haki b4 CP0 guy and got clubbed ,as a result he died ( well almost may b) . And then Luffy  wake up with G5 and said "i can fight a bit longer " . Luffy ran out of stamina then forced himself to get up to G5 again . Healed up part is our assumption , even if u think he healed up , that cost his stamina . its not some outside help ( like Zoros med etc )


He is healed a bit otherwise he would be very close to death not completely healed.

Do u think that G5 can fight the scabbards the RT5, then Luffy then yamato then fight Luffy twise?

Kaido is slightly stronger than Luffy. But if it makes you feel better then Luffy will surpass him next arc when G5 uses less stamina.


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## o0Shinthi0o (May 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> So you think a fresh Luffy can go G5 and last as long as Kaido? When we know that awakening takes a large amount of stamina and is generally used as a last resort by characters like Mingo and Law? Luffy's damage output just won't cut it before he runs of out stamina. Kaido had to be softened up by a gauntlet and carrying Onigashima.



I think non dead Luffy can maintain G5 way way way more , specially after seeing he can force himself to get into G5 .  As for not using G5 ? then yea , if he does not use G5 aka not go all out then sure 



The crazy hacker said:


> He is healed a bit otherwise he would be very close to death.
> 
> Do u think that G5 can fight the scabbards the RT5, then Luffy then yamato?
> 
> Kaido is slightly stronger than Luffy. But if it makes you feel better then Luffy could surpass him next arc when G5 uses less stamina.


Yes, which obviously cost stamina . 
AdvCoC Luffy folds them obviously . 
Yes, thats why i said its extreme diff either way even after Luffy defeats Kaido in the manga.


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## Tsukuyomi (May 10, 2022)

Luffy is comparable to Kaido imo. 
Whoever is Stronger between the two. 
The difference is marginal.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## God sl4yer (May 10, 2022)

Mihawk extreme diffs.

Fresh kaido very-high diffs luffy. People forget that kaido went through a gauntlet and was injured and exhausted before going in a full 1v1 with luffy. Mihawk can push kaido to extreme diff like shanks.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Winner 1


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## Rp4lyf (May 11, 2022)

Luffy wins Mid diff- High Diff.


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## tnorbo (May 11, 2022)

Luffy folds him. I see Mihawk giving Kaido high diff  at best. after he takes down Kaido Luffy will be the world's current strongest.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## God sl4yer (May 11, 2022)

Rp4lyf said:


> Luffy wins Mid diff- High Diff.


Actually luffy wins low diff and if he beats kaido then he neg diffs mihawk.


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## Corax (May 11, 2022)

Mihawk I think. Unless Luffy is already>Shanks, which I doubt.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 11, 2022)

Luffy is already in the highest tier of power levels among Yonko rivalling Kaido, he is going to approach PK tier soon enough.

Luffy extreme diffs.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rp4lyf (May 11, 2022)

Corax said:


> Mihawk I think. Unless Luffy is already>Shanks, which I doubt.


Current 100% health Luffy > Shanks. Shanks has a higer level of Conquerors Haki byond coating, but he is weaker than Luffy as a fighter. The next level of CoC is what Devil Fruit Negated Luffy will use to beat 2 Devil Fruit Blackbeard.


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## bil02 (May 11, 2022)

Luffy may just be able to edge it extreme diff


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## ShWanks (May 12, 2022)

Mihawk extreme diff


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 13, 2022)

Luffy extreme diffs.


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## trance (May 13, 2022)

Mihawk extreme diffs.

(i even capitalized to indicate how serious i am )

Reactions: Like 1


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## Perrin (May 13, 2022)

KBD said:


> technically Mihawk lost that title the moment King loaned his sword to Kaido for a minute


No that was the brief moment of Kaidou, Worlds Strongest BladeDragon

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 18, 2022)

Kaido>mihawk luffy beat kaido 

Luffy high diffs


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## Ren. (May 18, 2022)

KBD said:


> neither has Mihawk



Let me get this, the dude that defeated Kaido needs to prove something vs the dude that did nothing to a top tier in the manga.

Kek

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ren. (May 18, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk > Shanks > Big Mom is headcanon? In what way?


In the fact that it is.


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## TheOnePieceIsReal (May 23, 2022)

Gear 5 Luffy


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## Golden Garp (May 24, 2022)

Luffy>=Kaido>Mihawk


Luffy High(low) diff


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 27, 2022)




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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> he clashed with Whitebeard on his IV, sent Kaido back to onigashima, included in kaido’s top 5 unlike linlin, and isn’t currently in a ditch due to two rookies
> 
> shanks > big mom is 99% confirmed at this point


BM literally can do everything Shanks has shown tbf & Kaido who's confirmed stronger than Shanks is also in a ditch due to ONE rookie. Oden was in Kaido top 5 and BM is stronger than him as she matched a stronger Kaido in Base.

It isn't, that's headcanon. I have Shanks stronger but by no means is it confirmed.


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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Bruh. How did you miss your boy absolutely disrespecting Linlin with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting Kaido was her claim to fame, then he says he wasn't even serious against her.


They literally were laughing together. Ofc he wasn't serious & neither was she lol She completely ignored Kaido's threat to kill her & ran up on him in his home tuff with less than half her main crew. Kaido was panicking. She can easily give him extreme diff if they actually hated each other. Kaido highly respects her hence him getting sad when she's defeated & reminiscing.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Bruh. How did you miss your boy absolutely disrespecting Linlin with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Fighting Kaido was her claim to fame, then he says he wasn't even serious against her.


I never understood how this applies to big mom but not shanks also? Lol what makes this funnier is knowing that neither of them were serious which makes that comment render useless. Also we literally have like 953 or 954 sober in his own words admit big mom is a death match for him

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 27, 2022)

“But kaido has shanks in top 5”
It wasn’t even a top 5 unless you think luffy is on their level during 1001

If is a top 5 why can’t we agree that oden is >garp, shiki, Rayleigh all people  who kaido knows and were at the Valley fight

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I never understood how this applies to big mom but not shanks also? Lol what makes this funnier is knowing that neither of them were serious which makes that comment render useless. Also we literally have like 953 or 954 sober in his own words admit big mom is a death match for him


Oh yeah he did mention that they would settle their death match after finding One Piece.


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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> “But kaido has shanks in top 5”
> It wasn’t even a top 5 unless you think luffy is on their level during 1001
> 
> If is a top 5 why can’t we agree that oden is >garp, shiki, Rayleigh all people  who kaido knows and were at the Valley fight


Exactly bias against BM is insane here

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Sablés (May 27, 2022)

You two jokers seriously pestering me over a post I made 2 weeks ago?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

^ who even mentioned you?


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## Sablés (May 27, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> ^ who even mentioned you


You quoted me, you buffoon.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (May 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You quoted me, you buffoon.


Ah didn't even notice. Should've figured only you would spout such nonsense.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 27, 2022)

Sablés said:


> You two jokers seriously pestering me over a post I made 2 weeks ago?


My fault , anyways luffy beats mihawk high diff


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## FGX (Sep 27, 2022)

Luffy mid diffs. High diffs at most.

Mihawk winning is just baseless headcanon and this includes Shanks too.

Luffy beats both 1v1 now

Reactions: Agree 2 | Lewd 1


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## Condor Hero (Sep 27, 2022)

Been done already recently, Luffy wins.


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## BenMazino01 (Sep 29, 2022)

Luffy doesn't even have to touch the blade thanks to ACOC. I have no doubt my boy will win

Reactions: Like 1


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## fenaker (Sep 29, 2022)

Mihawk mid diffs

Reactions: Winner 1


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## JoNdule (Sep 30, 2022)

Manga facts about Mihawk combat :
Mihawk slashes (he himself said he wont hold back) were getting dodged by pre ts luffy
Mihawk can't easily dominate YCs/warlords 
Can't beat Young Shanks  ( had 1B barely , was weaker and less famous than 5th emperor 1.5B Fs Luffy) 

about Luffy:
G4 Luffy ~ YCs / Doffy 
katakuri >= FS Luffy >~ Young Shanks 
Ryuo Luffy > Kata 
AdCoC Luffy >= Admieals > Old legends 
G5 ~ Yonko 

Adcoc G4 Luffy beats Mihawk high diff 
Let Mihawk beat an inbetweener or low top tier first 
Or even dominate

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2022)

G4 mid-diffs Posthawk

G5 stomps

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sufex (Sep 30, 2022)

Chadhawk high diffs the fodder


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## Condor Hero (Sep 30, 2022)

I think this has been done recently already and Luffy wins


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Manga facts about Mihawk combat :
> Mihawk slashes (he himself said he wont hold back) were getting dodged by pre ts luffy
> Mihawk can't easily dominate YCs/warlords
> Can't beat Young Shanks  ( had 1B barely , was weaker and less famous than 5th emperor 1.5B Fs Luffy)
> ...


Why are you in these threads posting like you never scaled nor discussed one piece??

It's obvious that mihawk was using just enough strength to incapacitate Luffy. This is literally highlighted when he swung at Luffy and daz bones was able to block the attack then mihawk proceeded to use a bit more of his strength and one shot him. It's a clear demonstration of him not actually using his "full power"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

On topic. They're around the same level(both yonko level slightly weaker than kaido). The problem is Luffy isn't as durable as kaido nor does he have special durability against swords. Given that even zoro can slice kaido I don't see why mihawk can't scratch Luffy.
Luffy is stronger and faster tho so I give Luffy like a 7/10 chances of winning due to slowhawk not having feats.


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## Ssj2Hokage (Oct 3, 2022)

Luffy easily.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

Ssj2Hokage said:


> Luffy easily.


Easily?? He's still slightly below kaido and no defenses against being cut I'm not sure he wins easily. But if he does connect he probably gets one-shot


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## Unresponsive (Oct 3, 2022)

olorun said:


> Easily?? He's still slightly below kaido and no defenses against being cut I'm not sure he wins easily. But if he does connect he probably gets one-shot


This becomes true

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JoNdule (Oct 3, 2022)

olorun said:


> Why are you in these threads posting like you never scaled nor discussed one piece??
> 
> It's obvious that mihawk was using just enough strength to incapacitate Luffy. This is literally highlighted when he swung at Luffy and daz bones was able to block the attack then mihawk proceeded to use a bit more of his strength and one shot him. It's a clear demonstration of him not actually using his "full power"


Excuses

Top tier casualky trash high tiers/vets... use only 25-50% of their powers

Mihawk is not strong as other top tiers, that's why u make excuses for him 

Imagine Doffy having feats in an arc than Yonko & admirals ... he won't ever 
But he had better feats and portrayal at MF than Mihawk. Casual DOFFY!

Reactions: Tier Specialist 4


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## JoNdule (Oct 3, 2022)

olorun said:


> Easily?? He's still slightly below kaido and no defenses against being cut I'm not sure he wins easily. But if he does connect he probably gets one-shot


Mihawk one-shot luffy yea
Troll

Reactions: Winner 2


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Excuses
> 
> Top tier casualky trash high tiers/vets... use only 25-50% of their powers
> 
> ...


It really isn't an excuse tho  mihawk was literally blocked by daz when he was swinging at Luffy. What does that tell you about the effort he was putting on Luffy??
What's this doffy comparison btw?? Was it because doffy played around jozu?? While mihawk's attack got deflected?? I don't remember doffy cutting through jozu Isnt this speaking more on jozu's partial durability which btw jozu couldn't take the full attack hence why he had to deflect it up otherwise he would have been blown back.

Except he's stated to be a more skilled and stronger than any other swordsman including shanks.


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Mihawk one-shot luffy yea
> Troll


Again, this fandom has bad reading comprehension. I'm saying g5 Luffy one shots mihawk you're literally just a troll aren't you. Why even argue if you argue in bad faith.


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## olorun (Oct 3, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Excuses
> 
> Top tier casualky trash high tiers/vets... use only 25-50% of their powers
> 
> ...


Not to mention, in the same arc crocodile straight said he thought less of doflamingo and then proceeded to want an alliance as equals with mihawk. I'm not sure why we're even debating this knowing mihawk massively held back and only swung casually.


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## ShWanks (Oct 5, 2022)

Tbh Luffy has portrayal as the strongest Yonko right now & with adcoa he should do alright against blades.


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## JoNdule (Oct 6, 2022)

olorun said:


> It really isn't an excuse tho  mihawk was literally blocked by daz when he was swinging at Luffy. What does that tell you about the effort he was putting on Luffy??
> What's this doffy comparison btw?? Was it because doffy played around jozu?? While mihawk's attack got deflected?? I don't remember doffy cutting through jozu Isnt this speaking more on jozu's partial durability which btw jozu couldn't take the full attack hence why he had to deflect it up otherwise he would have been blown back.
> 
> Except he's stated to be a more skilled and stronger than any other swordsman including shanks.



Doffy toyed with Jozu and clashed Croco easily
Mihawk postponed vs vista, listened to Croco order and backed down 

Next
He was never stated to be stronger than Shanks. He's stated to be more skilled than shanks in swordmanship


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## JoNdule (Oct 6, 2022)

olorun said:


> Not to mention, in the same arc crocodile straight said he thought less of doflamingo and then proceeded to want an alliance as equals with mihawk. I'm not sure why we're even debating this knowing mihawk massively held back and only swung casually.



Croco still talks and Mihawk listens
Mihawk knows he can't handle Croco as he handled daz.


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## FGX (Oct 28, 2022)

Luffy slams. I will say it again.

Mihawk and Shanks wankers can keep coping all they want.

Luffy high diffs them 1v1

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Sanji (Oct 28, 2022)

Mihawk but not for long


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## JoNdule (Oct 28, 2022)

Sanji said:


> Mihawk but not for long


Mihawk beating luffy is like current zoro beating Roger 1v1

Won't happen


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## Zero (Oct 28, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk can push Kaido to extreme difficulty. So far, Luffy hasn’t shown that he can do the same yet.
> 
> Mihawk wins.


Mihawk may even be STRONGER than Kaido.
But I’ll be careful on the wank.


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## JoNdule (Oct 29, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk can push Kaido to extreme difficulty. So far, Luffy hasn’t shown that he can do the same yet.
> 
> Mihawk wins.


Except weakened luffy proved to push Weakened kaido to extreme diff

Mihawk hasn't proven he can push kaido to high diff per feats 
What had Mihawk done? 

Failed to beat Young Shanks who struggled against base Teach 
Mihawk can't even beat Young kaido


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## FGX (Nov 9, 2022)

Luffy def wins.

Luffy > Kaido > Mihawk


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 9, 2022)

FGX said:


> Luffy slams. I will say it again.
> 
> Mihawk and Shanks wankers can keep coping all they want.
> 
> Luffy high diffs them 1v1


If Luffy could high diff Shanks then he is much stronger than Roger and OP can end right now.


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## VanzZz (Nov 9, 2022)

Shanks > Luffy >>>>> Mihawk

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (Nov 9, 2022)

mihawk extreme diffs


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## verified (Nov 9, 2022)

could go either way tbh

Mihawk isn't gonna be expecting Luffy to pull some cartoon shit on him and that might just cost him the fight as he can't reliably tank Luffy's attacks like Kaido can

Mihawk could just spam ranged slashes but Luffy can literally fly so that might not work

whichever wins it will be extreme difficulty at least


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## olorun (Nov 9, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> If Luffy could high diff Shanks then he is much stronger than Roger and OP can end right now.


????? Are you implying that shanks>>Roger?? And you're actually serious?


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## ShWanks (Nov 9, 2022)

Luffy >= Shanks & Mihawk > 2 Fruit Teach


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## Duhul10 (Nov 9, 2022)

Imagine voting for Mihawk  

Imagine G5 Luffy tangoing with Vista


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## FGX (Nov 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> If Luffy could high diff Shanks then he is much stronger than Roger and OP can end right now.


Dude. What?
Roger is stronger than Shanks

And we are in the final One Piece saga anyway. So we are not that far from the ending

This is not an argument lmao. Plus Blackbeard gonna get stronger and be a greater threat most likely

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 10, 2022)

FGX said:


> Dude. What?
> Roger is stronger than Shanks
> 
> And we are in the final One Piece saga anyway. So we are not that far from the ending
> ...


Roger is maybe 3% stronger than Shanks, if I'm being generous.

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## FGX (Nov 10, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Roger is maybe 3% stronger than Shanks, if I'm being generous.


Can you prove that or quantify the gap between them? Lol


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## Raid3r2010 (Nov 10, 2022)

Mihawk,high-verry high difficulty.Kaido takes down Mihawk with extreme difficulty.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

VanzZz said:


> Shanks > Luffy >>>>> Mihawk

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Roger is maybe 3% stronger than Shanks, if I'm being generous.


What the hell is this shit.
Apperantly roger isn't the strongest pirate alongside whitebeard. Whitebeard is the strongest yonko while shanks is the weakest, if roger and whitebeard fought on par with roger being stronger.

HOW IN THE WORLD IS ROGER 3% stronger than the dude who lost his arm to a fish


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Mihawk fans
"So if Shanks is , if zoro is...based on this I think"
All of that just in their head

They have no feats to back Mihawk being able to beat g4 Luffy or even g2/g3 Luffy (Low top tier) 
In fact, Base Luffy is stronger than young Shanks (inbetweener/top high tier ) that Mihawm couldn't beat 

He couldn't even beat pre ts luffy, struggled to land hits.
What is he doing to current g2/g3 Luffy?

The strongest person Mihawk fought is not even stronger than FS Luffy! 
The strongest person he fought on screen was a YC weaker than Jozu & Doffy...couldn't do a thing.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> What the hell is this shit.
> Apperantly roger isn't the strongest pirate alongside whitebeard. Whitebeard is the strongest yonko while shanks is the weakest, if roger and whitebeard fought on par with roger being stronger.
> 
> HOW IN THE WORLD IS ROGER 3% stronger than the dude who lost his arm to a fish


They were just Great Pirates at the end of the day. Stop wanking. You mentioning the fish means you are not interested in a serious convo. "Roger died to fodder swords such trash"

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> They were just Great Pirates at the end of the day. Stop wanking. You mentioning the fish means you are not interested in a serious convo. "Roger died to fodder swords such trash"



How am I wanking because I said whitebeard is the strongest yonko?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Mihawk fans
> "So if Shanks is , if zoro is...based on this I think"
> All of that just in their head
> 
> ...


The strongest person mihawk fought was shanks...I guess FS Luffy>Shanks

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> How am I wanking because I said whitebeard is the strongest yonko?


Who told you he was the strongest Yonko? Dude didn't have the balls to take on Kaido for killing his 'brother'. Pathetic.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Who told you he was the strongest Yonko? Dude didn't have the balls to take on Kaido for killing his 'brother'. Pathetic.


Well whitebeard fought equally against roger and didn't lose.

Oden was already long dead and if whitebeard went he would've lost more people.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Well whitebeard fought equally against roger and didn't lose.
> 
> Oden was already long dead and if whitebeard went he would've lost more people.


You're making weak excuses for cowardice. Garp told Ace that even if they killed him before his execution, WB would still come to fight. Marco even said everybody on the ocean knows not to touch a WB pirate. 

WB didn't want the smoke. Period. You can go wank him for his empty hype while ignoring the realities of him being a pussy

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You're making weak excuses for cowardice. Garp told Ace that even if they killed him before his execution, WB would still come to fight. Marco even said everybody on the ocean knows not to touch a WB pirate.
> 
> WB didn't want the smoke. Period. You can go wank him for his empty hype while ignoring the realities of him being a pussy


You're comparing someone who was going to die in a day vs someone who died years earlier.

I don't get how marcos statement is relevant.

Wank the guy???You tried claiming shanks was only 3% weaker than roger. 

I wonder who has more hype shanks or the guy who was stated to be near to the one piece due to how powerful he is.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> You're comparing someone who was going to die in a day vs someone who died years earlier.


It doesn't matter. Garp made it clear that dying wouldn't stop WB from coming after you if you fucked with his family. Except with Kaido he chickened out. 


Unresponsive said:


> I don't get how marcos statement is relevant.


Because you have no interest in understanding. So you'll pretend that Marco saying they fuck up anyone who messes with their family is unintelligible. 


Unresponsive said:


> Wank the guy???You tried claiming shanks was only 3% weaker than roger.


Yes. What evidence do you have that Roger is much stronger? At his best he could only equal WB, a Great Pirate like Shanks. That same WB avoided Kaido who Shanks wasn't afraid to confront. 


Unresponsive said:


> I wonder who has more hype shanks or the guy who was stated to be near to the one piece due to how powerful he is.


Pre-skip Shanks and WB met. Do you know what the Goroei said? That if Shanks were pushed to anger, they would not be able to stop him. They chose to hype Shanks instead of the man they handled handily at MF

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 2


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## Recca (Nov 11, 2022)

My Boy Sera spitting facts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 11, 2022)

I really doubt Whitebeard would fear death if Kaido was the one who killed someone he cared for. Maybe he just didn't care for Oden that much? Or he didn't know Kaido killed Oden?


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> It doesn't matter. Garp made it clear that dying wouldn't stop WB from coming after you if you fucked with his family. Except with Kaido he chickened out.
> 
> Because you have no interest in understanding. So you'll pretend that Marco saying they fuck up anyone who messes with their family is unintelligible.
> 
> ...


Yes it does matter. Why would whitebeard who is stronger than his old self chicken out against kaido but when he is old, has a weakened body, and his body is more worse. He is willing to fight the organization with  plenty of soldiers, navy ships, advanced technology, and old legends.
That doesn't make sense. Why would the stronger person who is going to complete an easier task be scared but when hes old and has many weakness+disadvantages he's tough.

That may be true but it was only for that certain situation. If ace were to die that day it wouldn't matter, it would've been too late for anyone to stop whitebeard since he was already going there.
Whitebeard can't do that in this situation since oden was already dead and they found out several years later.

If whitebeard is the strongest yonko, and roger is stronger than whitebeard(not by a lot though). Why wouldn't he be stronger than shanks.

The gorosei are fodders(they couldn't do nothing with the marines).

That was in the databook, meanwhile whitebeard is getting called the WSM, WSP, The King of the Seas, and how this was WB'S Era.
Shiki-Who I think is a yonko, either way he is a legend who said it.
Garp-Hyped up whitebeard
BB hyped up wb and his devil fruit

It's obvious that whitebeard is the strongest yonko and roger is stronger than him.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 11, 2022)

Anyone who thinks Whitebeard is the type to avoid someone in fear truly doesn't understand anything about the man. He never retreated (as his injuries reflect) and risked everything to save his son.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Anyone who thinks Whitebeard is the type to avoid someone in fear truly doesn't understand anything about the man. He never retreated (as his injuries reflect) and risked everything to save his son.


That's what happens when you forget to use context clues.

Whitebeard was too late to get revenge for oden while he had a chance to save ace.

There is a difference.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Sablés (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Who told you he was the strongest Yonko? Dude didn't have the balls to take on Kaido for killing his 'brother'. Pathetic.


Oden was Shanks crewmate. 
And Shanks knew that Hiyori and Momo were being oppressed by Kaido.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Oden was Shanks crewmate.
> And Shanks knew that Hiyori and Momo were being oppressed by Kaido.


Shanks the fraud confirmed shanks also doesn't let his friends get killed without him interfering.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Sickbeard and Shanks did nothing cause they knew they can't beat Kaido 1v1

Simple as that

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Sickbeard and Shanks did nothing cause they knew they can't beat Kaido 1v1
> 
> Simple as that


Shanks stopped kaido

Sickbeard already is portrayed and has statements of being the strongest. Keep crying Jon D Lost Cause

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JoNdule (Nov 11, 2022)

Better to ignore  Zoro/ Mihawk troll users 

Luffy beats Mihawk high diff
Better feats, portrayal, hype


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> Better to ignore  Zoro/ Mihawk troll users
> 
> Luffy beats Mihawk high diff
> Better feats, portrayal, hype


He now wants to ignore me because I've destroyed all of his anti mihawk arguments everytime.


Also where is the WG fixed translation that doesn't say shanks is a great swordsman.


Did you think claiming "shanks isn't a dia kengou but hes still a swordsman" would make the title of mihawk being a WSS not apply to him anymore.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Sablés said:


> Oden was Shanks crewmate.
> And Shanks knew that Hiyori and Momo were being oppressed by Kaido.


And Oden told Shanks and the Roger pirates not to interfere with Wano.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 11, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> And Oden told Shanks and the Roger pirates not to interfere with Wano.


when


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> when


In one of the Roger pirates chapters. They ask if they should help with Wano but Oden says it's his business to manage. WB has no excuse.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Nov 11, 2022)

Been done before, Luffy wins.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 11, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> That's what happens when you forget to use context clues.
> 
> Whitebeard was too late to revenge oden while he had a chance to save ace.
> 
> There is a difference.


I already corrected you on this.  Garp said killing Ace would make no difference. They angered the "King of the Sea". That same king didn't have the balls to go to war with Kaido. Likely because he realised that if Oden couldn't beat him there was no way he was going to.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> I already corrected you on this.  Garp said killing Ace would make no difference. They angered the "King of the Sea". That same king didn't have the balls to go to war with Kaido.


Yes in that certain context, whitebeard was already on his way there. 
Answer my question, why would a old weakened whitebeard not be scared of an organization with far more man power than him but a whitebeard whose much stronger and healthier be scared than someone his "brother" also two tapped.


Seraphoenix said:


> Likely because he realised that if Oden couldn't beat him there was no way he was going to.


Are you trying to claim that oden is superior to whitebeard?


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Yes in that certain context, whitebeard was already on his way there.
> Answer my question, why would a old weakened whitebeard not be scared of an organization with far more man power than him but a whitebeard whose much stronger and healthier be scared than someone his "brother" also two tapped.


Because Kaido is 1v1 king, not anybody from the navy. Easier to pull up on Akainu and scrubs, than taking on the WSC. We also know he was going to MF to die. Going to war with Kaido, the aim wouldn't be to die. 


Unresponsive said:


> Are you trying to claim that oden is superior to whitebeard?


Oden claps old WB. 

Roger, WB, and Oden were paralleled with Sabo, Ace, and Luffy. Sabo and Ace had something like 49-51 fight record when they were younger. Sabo=Oden and Ace= WB if we go by the bandages. Once Oden entered his prime he would be equal to or slightly weaker than WB.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Because Kaido is 1v1 king, not anybody from the navy. Easier to pull up on Akainu and scrubs, than taking on the WSC. We also know he was going to MF to die. Going to war with Kaido, the aim wouldn't be to die.


Whitebeard pulled up to MF knowing the Navy boys would've killed him 

Going to war with Kaidou means Whitebeard has already seen his victory, he wouldn't die but Kaidou would get his birthday wish and his funeral candles lit


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 12, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Whitebeard pulled up to MF knowing the Navy boys would've killed him


That's because he was old. Prime WB wipes out the navy. 


Inferno Jewls said:


> Going to war with Kaidou means Whitebeard has already seen his victory, he wouldn't die but Kaidou would get his birthday wish and his funeral candles lit


If he would have won he would have pulled up. He knew he was old and that Kaido would wash him.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Because Kaido is 1v1 king, not anybody from the navy. Easier to pull up on Akainu and scrubs, than taking on the WSC. We also know he was going to MF to die. Going to war with Kaido, the aim wouldn't be to die.


Hell no, he's just rumored to be it. It's not official at all.

Being the 1v1 king is the same as just being extremely good at fighting which whitebeard and roger are better at.
His plan was to save ace than sacrifice himself for his family.
If he fought kaido he would've lost plenty, others would get caught up in this mess, and he wouldn't accomplish nothing.


Seraphoenix said:


> Oden claps old WB.


Old whitebeard is better.
He may not be as strong as his prime but hes definitely stronger then a young kaido and a prime oden.





Seraphoenix said:


> Roger, WB, and Oden were paralleled with Sabo, Ace, and Luffy. Sabo and Ace had something like 49-51 fight record when they were younger. Sabo=Oden and Ace= WB if we go by the bandages. Once Oden entered his prime he would be equal to or slightly weaker than WB.


So roger is luffy... you're delusional.
That's not how it works if anything whitebeard is sabo, while roger is ace.

Oden would be luffy the guy who lost to them both quite easily.
So your own analogy or example literally backfires if you actually read the manga.

You don't scale using that my guy...


Also STOP TROLLING 

Oden lost multiple times against whitebeard, but when he saw his true power he literally was on the ground shocked.

It's obvious whitebeard is better than oden in every way.

Oden in his prime hardly even touches 5% whitebeard

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> If he would have won he would have pulled up. He knew he was old and that Kaido would wash him.


Whitebeard isn't luffy.

If he knew about oden and he was still alive or died a few hours earlier and he was on his way, laido would vanish from existence.

stop trolling


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That's because he was old. Prime WB wipes out the navy.


Prime, old, baby 

they all get wiped out by navy boys


Seraphoenix said:


> If he would have won he would have pulled up. He knew he was old and that Kaido would wash him.


"if he would have won he would pulled up" 

Yeah Kaidou isn't beating any versions of Whitebeard, not. even the loser version

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> *but hes definitely stronger than* a young kaido and a *prime oden*.



What makes you so sure? Oden was fairly powerful and if someone like Squardo can fatally wound old Whitebeard then someone as skilled as Oden imo can't be ruled out as a menace to him.

Anyway on topic I'd feel embarrassed for Mihawk if he can't beat current Luffy. I can't really explain why, it's merely a gut feeling I guess. And the impact of his actions was simply greater for some strange reason. Also bounty.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> What makes you so sure? Oden was fairly powerful and if someone like Squardo can fatally wound old Whitebeard then someone as skilled as Oden imo can't be ruled out as a menace to him.


I said "stronger" not more durable.
Also that doesn't matter because whitebeard still kept pushing through. We saw what akainu did to him and yet he still slapped up akainu.
Squardo didn't fatally wound whitebeard lol.


Either way fatally wounded or not we saw what whitebeard does. He probably wouldn't have died if it wasn't due to all the previous damage he took.

Old whitebeard should be able to react until his vision gets terrible but by that time oden is going to die.

Internal destruction+Haki coated attacks+ Vibration internal destruction.
Whitebeard is stronger, has better endurance, and hax.


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> I said "stronger" not more durable.



Don't play dumb. You know that is not the point and merely an excuse.



Unresponsive said:


> We saw what akainu did to him and yet he still slapped up akainu.



He was doomed to die cause of Akainu so that doesn't even make any sense.



Unresponsive said:


> Also that doesn't matter because whitebeard still kept pushing through.



He pushed through to his coffin.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Don't play dumb. You know that is not the point and merely an excuse.


You asked me "Why would I assume whitebeard is stronger".

If you were going to ask a dumb question, you're getting a dumb response.


Quipchaque said:


> He was doomed to die cause of Akainu so that doesn't even make any sense.


He was doomed to die due to gunshots. Literally whitebeard kept going and never gave up, until bb and his friends


Quipchaque said:


> He pushed through to his coffin.


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> You asked me "Why would I assume whitebeard is stronger".
> 
> If you were going to ask a dumb question, you're getting a dumb response.
> 
> He was doomed to die due to gunshots. Literally whitebeard kept going and never gave up, until bb and his friends



Well yeah why would you?  You still didn't answer that. 

Because Whitebeard totally would've survived the head injury. Is that what you're saying?


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## JoNdule (Nov 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> What makes you so sure? Oden was fairly powerful and if someone like Squardo can fatally wound old Whitebeard then someone as skilled as Oden imo can't be ruled out as a menace to him.
> 
> Anyway on topic I'd feel embarrassed for Mihawk if he can't beat current Luffy. I can't really explain why, it's merely a gut feeling I guess. And the impact of his actions was simply greater for some strange reason. Also bounty.


He was struggling to tag pre ts luffy despite "my power knows no restraint" while using Yoru
Couldn't overpower vista

But Him losing to Luffy is embarrassing? Lol

Luffy has the feats and everything over Mihawk


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2022)

JoNdule said:


> But Him losing to Luffy is embarrassing? Lol



For me yes. I didn't say it makes sense lol. 



JoNdule said:


> Luffy has the feats and everything over Mihawk


Let me have my bias you meanie.


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## Beast (Nov 12, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Who told you he was the strongest Yonko? Dude didn't have the balls to take on Kaido for killing his 'brother'. Pathetic.


 

Oda you fool. Oda said WB is the strongest

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Nov 12, 2022)



Reactions: Like 1 | GODA 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Shanks the fraud confirmed



Or, more likely, Shanks couldn't take unilateral action against Kaido as it would not be what the Gorosei or Im wants.  Gorosei seemed to prefer Kaido in charge.



Seraphoenix said:


> In one of the Roger pirates chapters. They ask if they should help with Wano but Oden says it's his business to manage. WB has no excuse.



Not doubting you, but scan?  

Would be good to have for future reference. WB was probably too late to save or avenge Oden.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Or, more likely, Shanks couldn't take unilateral action against Kaido as it would not be what the Gorosei or Im wants. Gorosei seemed to prefer Kaido in charge.


I forgot shanks was a government dog

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Well yeah why would you?  You still didn't answer that.
> 
> Because Whitebeard totally would've survived the head injury. Is that what you're saying?


Because he was stronger. It's not that hard to understand.


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## Quipchaque (Nov 12, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Because he was stronger. It's not that hard to understand.



That's not how it works. And you know that is not what I asked either. I Asked "why" not "if".

I'm also asking again if you genuinely believe that Whitebeard would have survived with a big piece of his head missing.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 12, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> That's not how it works. And you know that is not what I asked either. I Asked "why" not "if


"Why would you assume whitebeard is stronger"
Whitebeard was able to fight akainu and successfully defeat him.
Akainu is strong enough to beat young kaido and oden.


Quipchaque said:


> ".
> 
> I'm also asking again if you genuinely believe that Whitebeard would have survived with a big piece of his head missing.


Yes


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## ShWanks (Nov 12, 2022)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Mihawk,high-verry high difficulty.Kaido takes down Mihawk with extreme difficulty.


Nah Kaido high diffs. Old Gen Yonko couldn't even kill him in handicap matches based on canon information.


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## ShWanks (Nov 12, 2022)

FGX said:


> Can you prove that or quantify the gap between them? Lol


Compare their feats...


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Beast said:


> Oda you fool. Oda said WB is the strongest


Oda never told me anywhere WB is the strongest. Quote the interview where the man Oda says WB is definitively the strongest.


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## trance (Nov 13, 2022)

>luffy vs mihawk
>WB

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Or, more likely, Shanks couldn't take unilateral action against Kaido as it would not be what the Gorosei or Im wants.  Gorosei seemed to prefer Kaido in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Chapter 958:


Shanks respects that it was a Kozuki matter. That's why he never interfered.


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## FGX (Nov 13, 2022)

Mihawk wankers are sad ngl. Luffy slams high diff.

And yea. Luffy surpassed Kaido btw (Extreme Diff)

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Beast (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Oda never told me anywhere WB is the strongest. Quote the interview where the man Oda says WB is definitively the strongest.


Well, you clearly don’t read the one piece manga.. WB is the Worlds strongest man and if that’s still confusing, he’s referred to as the worlds strongest pirate.
I don’t need an interview, read the manga. The fuck would a second source material matter.


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## Quipchaque (Nov 13, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> "Why would you assume whitebeard is stronger"
> Whitebeard was able to fight akainu and successfully defeat him.
> Akainu is strong enough to beat young kaido and oden.
> 
> Yes



Ok that however I can respect, that makes sense. Still don't get why you would believe Whitebeard survives with a hole in his head though... that's literally impossible.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Beast said:


> Well, you clearly don’t read the one piece manga.. WB is the Worlds strongest man and if that’s still confusing, he’s referred to as the worlds strongest pirate.
> I don’t need an interview, read the manga. The fuck would a second source material matter.


So Oda never said it? Thanks. Next time just take your L with dignity.


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix is allergic to Manga facts but when it comes to non canon movie he says _*"BUT ODA SUPERVISED IT" *_

but when it comes to Whitebeard and his worlds strongest title he's completely oblivious, he forgot Oda ever wrote the manga

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Seraphoenix is allergic to Manga facts but when it comes to non canon movie he says _*"BUT ODA SUPERVISED IT" *_
> 
> but when it comes to Whitebeard and his worlds strongest title he's completely oblivious, he forgot Oda ever wrote the manga


The difference is we are shown Shanks' complete superiority over Lizaru and Lujitora.

WB just has an empty title. He didn't dare take Kaido on. On his deathbed he could two-piece scrubs like Akainu sure, but healthy Yonko were a no-go area for the old man.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 1


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## Santoryu (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The difference is we are shown Shanks' complete superiority over Lizaru and Lujitora.
> 
> WB just has an empty title. He didn't dare take Kaido on. On his deathbed he could two-piece scrubs like Akainu sure, but healthy Yonko were a no-go area for the old man.





Inferno Jewls said:


> Seraphoenix is allergic to Manga facts but when it comes to non canon movie he says _*"BUT ODA SUPERVISED IT" *_
> 
> but when it comes to Whitebeard and his worlds strongest title he's completely oblivious, he forgot Oda ever wrote the manga




It's about balance 

Obviously, the movie is not conclusively canon but elements of it can still be argued to hold more weight than the opinions of random Fanverse posters who have generated all sorts of imaginary tier lists

Shanks managing to beat Kizaru is obviously not contradicted by the manga as of yet, but we can argue the amount of difficulty. 
Do I think Shanks can beat Kizaru in a matter of 10 seconds? No
We see Kizaru going toe to toe with Rayleigh so obviously he's not someone that is easily beaten 


Do I think he beats Kizaru with room to spare? Yes

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Santoryu said:


> It's about balance
> 
> Obviously, the movie is not conclusively canon but elements of it can still be argued to hold more weight than the opinions of random Fanverse posters who have generated all sorts of imaginary tier lists
> 
> ...


I could argue it might go faster in the manga. Observation killing plus CotC paralysing is a very quick fight. Those two abilities are a nightmare 1v1.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Santoryu (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> I could argue it might go faster in the manga. Observation killing plus CotC paralysing is a very quick fight. Those two abilities are a nightmare 1v1.



Doubt it tbh.

This isn't Greenbull


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## God sl4yer (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> I could argue it might go faster in the manga


yes you can

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Santoryu said:


> Doubt it tbh.
> 
> This isn't Greenbull


GB is the strongest admiral 

He’s the Akainu of the new trio.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Also observation killing makes Fuji a neg diff fight tbh. Poor GreenEggs

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Mihawk > Luffy ~ Shanks makes sense for now


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## Beast (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> So Oda never said it? Thanks. Next time just take your L with dignity.


The manga is Odas words.  

who’s the WSM?


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## Beast (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> WB just has an empty title.





Seraphoenix said:


> Who told you he was the strongest Yonko?


looooooool denial is a hella of a drug.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The difference is we are shown Shanks' complete superiority over Lizaru and Lujitora.
> 
> WB just has an empty title. He didn't dare take Kaido on. On his deathbed he could two-piece scrubs like Akainu sure, but healthy Yonko were a no-go area for the old man.


Here‘s what Shanks and his boyfriends think of Oldbeard


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Bouki said:


> Here‘s what Shanks and his boyfriends think of Oldbeard


That's one crew member. Not that impressive. We saw in the manga Shanks had no problem disrespecting WB by trying to recruit Marco and damaging his ship in front of him. Then he drew his sword first in front of the whole crew. Then we had one of WB's crew fearful of what Shanks was doing to WB.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Beast said:


> The manga is Odas words.
> 
> who’s the WSM?


The manga is a narrative that we have to interpret. It isn't word of god    If it was then Demaro Black is Monkey D. Luffy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> That's one crew member. Not that impressive. We saw in the manga Shanks had no problem disrespecting WB by trying to recruit Marco and damaging his ship in front of him. Then he drew his sword first in front of the whole crew. Then we had one of WB's crew fearful of what Shanks was doing to WB.


*Redhair *and his men stopped and stared at Ace.
Then in the last line he tells them those who challenged Whitebeard in the past failed, and that he didn't know fools like that still exist.
You can't make this up


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Bouki said:


> *Redhair *and his men stopped and stared at Ace.
> Then in the last line he tells them those who challenged Whitebeard in the past failed, and that he didn't know fools like that still exist.
> You can't make this up


What is your point? That one of Shanks' men was scared of WB? So what? Queen was scared of BM. What does matter is that Shanks gave no fucks about WB when they met. He freely disrespected him and even drew his sword, inviting a fight. You are ignoring this, of course.


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The manga is a narrative that we have to interpret. It isn't word of god    If it was then Demaro Black is Monkey D. Luffy


Yes we all thought Damaro Black is Luffy at some point, but fortunately Sentomaru revealed he was a fraud.
On the other hand Brannew revealed Shanks is a fraud in 1058




Seraphoenix said:


> What is your point? That one of Shanks' men was scared of WB? So what? Queen was scared of BM. What does matter is that Shanks gave no fucks about WB when they met. He freely disrespected him and even drew his sword, inviting a fight. You are ignoring this, of course.


Shanks knows not to mess with Whitebeard, I think the last point portrayed it clearly.
He was disrespected by Whitebeard first and was saving face only. Even Marco knew he wouldn't do anything stupid.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Bouki said:


> Yes we all thought Damaro Black is Luffy at some point, but fortunately Sentomaru revealed he was a fraud.
> On the other hand Brannew revealed Shanks is a fraud in 1058


You are missing the point. If you want to say the manga is word of god then Demaro Black is 100% Monkey D. Luffy. Kinnemon is Momo's father etc. 


Bouki said:


> Shanks knows not to mess with Whitebeard, I think the last point portrayed it clearly.
> He was disrespected by Whitebeard first and was saving face only. Even Marco knew he wouldn't do anything stupid.


The last point? Shanks knocked out his men and damaged his ship. He started the disrespect. Hell he started it even earlier by sending Rockstar as a messenger. 

WB was the one saving face as he knew Shanks wouldn't kill him.


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> You are missing the point. If you want to say the manga is word of god then Demaro Black is 100% Monkey D. Luffy. Kinnemon is Momo's father etc.


Your mental gymnastics are next level ngl.
You know what was 100%? When Shanks and Mihawk were equals before he lost his arm to a fish. That's the whole point of his sacrifice and why it's valuable, one arm has been can't compete get over it lol
Shanks' strength in the OP verse is tied to his duels with the WSS Mihawk who doesn't acknowledge him anymore.



Seraphoenix said:


> The last point? Shanks knocked out his men and damaged his ship. He started the disrespect. Hell he started it even earlier by sending Rockstar as a messenger.
> 
> WB was the one saving face as he knew Shanks wouldn't kill him.


Shanks apologizes immediately for the dissatisfaction.
Whitebeard however calls him a brat 100 years early to advising him, then throws his poor quality booze in his face.
Considering Shanks is not stupid enough he goes home after the clash.
I mean Shanks wants no piece of his former subordinate Teach let alone Whitebeard himself.


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## Seraphoenix (Nov 13, 2022)

Bouki said:


> You're mental gymnastics are next level ngl.
> You know what was 100%? When Shanks and Mihawk were equals before he lost his arm to a fish. That's the whole point of his sacrifice and why it's valuable, one arm has been can't compete get over it lol
> Shanks' strength in the OP verse is tied to his duels with the WSS Mihawk who doesn't acknowledge him anymore.


Now you're running off to a separate conversation because you lost    transparent tactics. 


Bouki said:


> Shanks apologizes immediately for the dissatisfaction.
> Whitebeard however calls him a brat 100 years early to advise him, then throws his poor quality booze in his face.
> Considering Shanks is not stupid enough he goes home after the clash.
> I mean Shanks wants no piece of his former subordinate Teach let alone Whitebeard himself.


He disrespected WB and he did nothing 

He pulled out his sword and had WB's men scared for WB's safety

Then walked off without WB and his orphans doing shit


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## Bouki (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Now you're running off to a separate conversation because you lost  transparent tactics.


Snitch bros built different, they tell you to your face that they have no comeback to your arguments but still cope nevertheless




Seraphoenix said:


> He disrespected WB and he did nothing
> 
> He pulled out his sword and had WB's men scared for WB's safety
> 
> Then walked off without WB and his orphans doing shit


Shanks thinks anyone who tries to topple Whitebeard is a fool, and Shanks is indeed a smart boi

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Inferno Jewls (Nov 13, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The difference is we are shown Shanks' complete superiority over Lizaru and Lujitora.
> 
> WB just has an empty title. He didn't dare take Kaido on. On his deathbed he could two-piece scrubs like Akainu sure, but healthy Yonko were a no-go area for the old man.


See what you're doing here? 

reaching with non canon disney movie facts, shits lame as fuck

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Ok that however I can respect, that makes sense. Still don't get why you would believe Whitebeard survives with a hole in his head though... that's literally impossible.




Looking at our client jaguar D saul, he was frozen and survived.  Nothing is impossible in the world of one piece


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

Inferno Jewls said:


> Seraphoenix is allergic to Manga facts but when it comes to non canon movie he says _*"BUT ODA SUPERVISED IT" *_
> 
> but when it comes to Whitebeard and his worlds strongest title he's completely oblivious, he forgot Oda ever wrote the manga


3d2y movie is canon, but film red isn't.


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## Quipchaque (Nov 13, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Looking at our client jaguar D saul, he was frozen and survived.  Nothing is impossible in the world of one piece



That's called a plot shield. Whitebeard doesn't have no such thing which is why he ended up dead in the first place.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> That's called a plot shield. Whitebeard doesn't have no such thing which is why he ended up dead in the first place.



 Wait till luffy revives everyone by using edo tensei


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## Quipchaque (Nov 13, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Wait till luffy revives everyone by using edo tensei



Lol. That would be amazing.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> Lol. That would be amazing.


Reality warping

Phase 1 is already complete

Next BB kills everyone

Phase 2 will be complete

Luffy will revive him after


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## Quipchaque (Nov 13, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Reality warping
> 
> Phase 1 is already complete
> 
> ...



You've lost me now. Sorry lol


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

Quipchaque said:


> You've lost me now. Sorry lol


Okay look
Luffy has reality warping

BB murks everyone on earth

Luffy beats up BB

Revives everyone then revives BB


People jump him ass and ace donuts him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Nov 13, 2022)

Luffy > Mihawk > Shanks


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## Unresponsive (Nov 13, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> *Luffy > Mihawk* > Shanks


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## MrPopo (Nov 13, 2022)




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## Unresponsive (Nov 14, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> WB just has an empty title.


This must be what  luffy heard and started laughing in gear 5.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## FGX (Nov 14, 2022)

Bouki said:


> Mihawk > Luffy ~ Shanks makes sense for now


Luffy > Mihawk >= Shanks


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## Recca (Nov 14, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> The difference is we are shown Shanks' complete superiority over Lizaru and Lujitora.
> 
> WB just has an empty title. He didn't dare take Kaido on. On his deathbed he could two-piece scrubs like Akainu sure, but healthy Yonko were a no-go area for the old man.


Whitebeard just bullied the weak Marines into thinking he'd attack anyone that touches his family. We saw what Kaido did to his family and  Whitebeard starting to go blind in his right eye and partial blind in his left eye 

He was so trash Kaido thought he could take out the entire Whitebeard pirates with just King by his side

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## bil02 (Nov 14, 2022)

Doubt Luffy is winning this but voted for him,atm he got the feats,unlike mihawk.


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## Sufex (Nov 14, 2022)

Intro: Mihawk]
(Metro Boomin want some more, ^ (use bro))
Rollin' in the boat, yeah
Yeah
Get it
Get it, get it, hey (Warlordz)
Slash it, Slash it (Yeah), huh (Hold up)
(Warlordz)
Yeah
My blade in the sheath (Turn up)
My blade in the sheath (Hold up)
I know how to slash it (Cut it)
My bitch good looking (Woo)
My bitch good looking (Hold up)
My bitch good looking (I swear)
My sword in the sheath, I know how to slash it
Yeah (Yeah)
Yeah, yeah (Yeah, yeah)

[Chorus: Mihawk]
I did the digital slash (I did it)
I fucked that bitch on the passenger (3 trillion)
I gave that fodder a slash (One percent power yea)
I sell that blade to your mama, though (Your mama)
Hot on the seas like thermometers (Thermometers)
You fodders will never be honorable (Fuck 'em)
They know I'ma keep that my word (Yeah)
I fight the first to the Yonko (Shanks)

[Verse 1: Mihawke]
These nami simps be naggin' the Vamp (Fuck 'em)
They get on my motherfuckin' nerves (My motherfuckin' nerves)
I showed up with swords and they fear me (They fear me)
I'm smokin' that pack and on seas (That gushy)
Soloing on these hoes (Hoes)
Give a Cut to these fodders (These fodders)
Got 'em playing with they knives (Yeah)
I sleep on a beach off the sea (The GOAT)
I came to your county with revenue (Wano)
I put in work, it was evident (It was)
I solo on your ass in a sword dance (I slice on 'em)
Come back nami in a six-trey (Woo)
Dope Ship, crocodile, I keep 'em comin' (Keep 'em comin')
Fuck all these simps I keep 'em crying' (Warlord)
I pull up right now, I'm parallel (Skrrt)
I hit that slash with tha haki (I hit 'em)
My niggas ain't nothin' but some Warlordz (kneel bitch)
I sit in the ship with the Warlords
These simps can't come around here 'cause it's dangerous (Warlord)
I be hangin' 'round here and I'm famous (Warlord)
Gotta keep the lil knife by my finger (My finger)
Hit em sideways when I slashed em (I slashed)

Got nami on me gettin' murked (Let's get it)

I got that digital slash
I got that digital slash
I got that digital slash

Chorus: Mihawk]
Rollin' in the boat, yeah
Yeah
Get it
Get it, get it, hey (Warlordz)
Slash it, Slash it (Yeah), huh (Hold up)
(Warlordz)
Yeah
My blade in my sheath (Turn up)
My blade in the sheath (Hold up)
I know how to slash it (Cut it)
I am good looking (Woo)
I got that drip looking (Hold up)
My bitch good looking (I swear)
My sword in the sheath, I know how to slash it
Yeah (Yeah)
Yeah, yeah (Yeah, yeah)

[Chorus 2: Mihawk]
I did the digital slash (I did it)
I fucked that bitch on the passenger (3 trillion)
I gave that fodder a slash (One percent power yea)
I sell that blade to your mama, though (Your mama)
Hot on the seas like thermometers (Thermometers)
You fodders will never be honorable (Fuck 'em)
They know I'ma keep that my word (Yeah)
I fight the first to the Yonko (Shanks)

[Verse 2: Mihawke]
These nami simps be naggin' the Vampire (Fuck 'em)
They get on my motherfuckin' nerves (My motherfuckin' nerves)
I showed up with swords and they fear me (They fear me)
I'm smokin' that nami pack and on seas (That gushy)
Soloing on these hoes (Hoes)
Give a Cut to these foddes (These fodders)
Got 'em playing with they knives (Yeah)
I sleep on a ship off the beach (The GOAT)
I came to your county with revenue (Wano)
I put in work, it was evident (It was)
I solo on your ass in a sword dance (I slice on 'em)
Come back to the poll nami in a six-trey (Woo)
Dope Ship, crocodile,
I post up wit wine and that's confident (That's confident)
I slashed on 'em I'm back, I'm a Warlord (I'm back)
I get focused on my triillion bounty and everything (Focused)
I just took me a trip out to the New world (World)
See how they conted us out the poll, bet never gon' do it again (Warlordz)
You see why these simps be hatin', ignorin', I'm goin' right in (Yeah)
I was born to get this W in this life of sin (Life on my own yea)

I got that digital slash
I got that digital slash
I got that digital slash


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## Conxc (Nov 14, 2022)

Obviously Mihawk. Lowffy was just ducking smoke from a Pacifista, and his Haki still has a long way to go before he can even defend against the likes of Bonney’s DF.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 14, 2022)

Sufex said:


> Intro: Mihawk]
> (Metro Boomin want some more, ^ (use bro))
> Rollin' in the boat, yeah
> Yeah
> ...


Collab when


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Nov 15, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Obviously Mihawk. Lowffy was just ducking smoke from a Pacifista, and his Haki still has a long way to go before he can even defend against the likes of Bonney’s DF.


Mihawk could barely even make Pre TS Luffy bleed  

Bonney > Pacifista > Mihawk.


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## Unresponsive (Nov 15, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Mihawk could barely even make Pre TS Luffy bleed
> 
> Bonney > Pacifista > Mihawk.


Fraudhawk confirmed.

Bozo couldn't even beat a pile of sand

Reactions: GODA 1


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