# Post skip Zoro vs Blackbeard



## STARSTRIKE (Jun 2, 2013)

Post skip Zoro vs post skip blackbeard (with whitebeard's abilities)

Location: Arlong Park
State of mind: Zoro - drunk , Blackbeard - lazy
Restrictions: none


Who would win and why?


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## Imagine (Jun 2, 2013)

You gave Teach the gura gura no mi? God why.

Teach can already beat Zoro with just he yami yami no mi. Nearly breaking the neck of a high tier like Ace, tanking a quake to the skull from WB, and having enough firepower to overcome entei. But now he has even more firepower.


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## STARSTRIKE (Jun 2, 2013)

Imagine said:


> You gave Teach the gura gura no mi? God why.
> 
> Teach can already beat Zoro with just he yami yami no mi. Nearly breaking the neck of a high tier like Ace, tanking a quake to the skull from WB, and having enough firepower to overcome entei. But now he has even more firepower.



the fact that BB beat ace with a neck grab doesn't mean that he could do the same to Zoro.

Ace isn't known for using his physical ability to overcome an opponent, like BB said the logia type are used to not being hit or touched in a battle. Zoro has far superior physical strength over Ace.

BB's shadow powers are good against devil fruit users but what can they do to Zoro?

I gave BB the gura gura because his shadow is a non-factor in this fight.


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## RF (Jun 2, 2013)

**


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## Dellinger (Jun 2, 2013)

The fuck is this?


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## Imagine (Jun 2, 2013)

STARSTRIKE said:


> the fact that BB beat ace with a neck grab doesn't mean that he could do the same to Zoro.
> 
> Ace isn't known for using his physical ability to overcome an opponent, like BB said the logia type are used to not being hit or touched in a battle. Zoro has far superior physical strength over Ace.
> 
> ...


Teach can do that to anyone on Ace's level. Ace's physical strength doesn't determine his durability. 

Teach's yami powers had no problem destroying entire town on no problem, Zoro getting sucked up into that would be a BIG problem. 

And Logias aren't used to being touched in battle but that doesn't mean all of them have subpar physical strength. The admirals are perfect examples of this.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 2, 2013)

Why would you make Zoro fight post time skip Blackbeard?
Just for the hell of it, Zoro slices up all version of pre skip Teach
I think Zoro would give Yonkou Teach extreme diff, Teach is extremely weak to swords. If Zoro gets sucked in, he slices Teach.


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## The Inevitable Llama (Jun 2, 2013)

Haruhi lays the facts on the table.


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## SesshomaruX2 (Jun 2, 2013)

Yami teach Loses. Gura teach wins.


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## Halcyon (Jun 2, 2013)

Haruhi just tells it how it is.


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## martryn (Jun 2, 2013)

> Teach can do that to anyone on Ace's level. Ace's physical strength doesn't determine his durability.
> 
> Teach's yami powers had no problem destroying entire town on no problem, Zoro getting sucked up into that would be a BIG problem.
> 
> And Logias aren't used to being touched in battle but that doesn't mean all of them have subpar physical strength. The admirals are perfect examples of this.



This is the primary reason I don't post in One Piece threads.  There's not a lot of logic in this statement.  It's just like the Manga Law of Physics and Anatomy.  If one person has more offensive ability, than he must have a proportional amount of stamina and defensive ability.  In reality, someone with a seastone bullet fired from a gun should be able to take down almost anyone from One Piece when shot from the back of the head.  We know guns are useless in One Piece, though, hence common sense breaks down and idiocy rules the day.

It's like Kishimoto saying that guns > ninjas, but any discussion about real world military vs Naruto based combatants always ends in fanwank driving reason out of the thread.


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## Imagine (Jun 2, 2013)

martryn said:


> This is the primary reason I don't post in One Piece threads.  There's not a lot of logic in this statement.  It's just like the Manga Law of Physics and Anatomy.  If one person has more offensive ability, than he must have a proportional amount of stamina and defensive ability.  In reality, someone with a seastone bullet fired from a gun should be able to take down almost anyone from One Piece when shot from the back of the head.  We know guns are useless in One Piece, though, hence common sense breaks down and idiocy rules the day.
> 
> It's like Kishimoto saying that guns > ninjas, but any discussion about real world military vs Naruto based combatants always ends in fanwank driving reason out of the thread.


Please, tell me where I went wrong in my post.


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## Kanki (Jun 2, 2013)

Zoro is physically superior to what Ace was, and the fact that he doesn't use a DF helps too. 

He might do slightly better than Ace simply due to his style, but he still hasn't got a chance of winning.


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## Mike S (Jun 2, 2013)

We don't know how strong the M3 really are yet. Luffy and Zoro are definitely near Ace but it's not clear if they surpassed him yet. Based on that, Yami Teach should still be able to solo any member of the M3.


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## Bitty (Jun 2, 2013)

martryn said:


> This is the primary reason I don't post in One Piece threads.  There's not a lot of logic in this statement.  It's just like the Manga Law of Physics and Anatomy. * If one person has more offensive ability, than he must have a proportional amount of stamina and defensive ability*.  In reality, someone with a seastone bullet fired from a gun should be able to take down almost anyone from One Piece when shot from the back of the head.  We know guns are useless in One Piece, though, hence common sense breaks down and idiocy rules the day.
> 
> It's like Kishimoto saying that guns > ninjas, but any discussion about real world military vs Naruto based combatants always ends in fanwank driving reason out of the thread.



No different characters have different stats & abilities, strengths & weaknesses....it's as simple as that.  You can succeed in one area more than a certain character, but lack in another.....even more so when DF abilities are involved. 

Enel has some of the most impressive offensive ability & damage output we've seen in the series, but his defense couldn't overcome attacks from Skypeia Luffy.  Usopp has a really high level of endurance(relatively speaking) even though he lacks in the physical strength area.  Granted usually when we see some one with great offensive ability they usually have great stamina & endurance to match or come close, but just saying this doesn't always have to be the case.
The comments Kishi stated about the guns where made a long time ago before the extreme power levels & hax abilities were introduced in the series.  Plus It doesn't matter if he says one thing but the manga itself contradicts it.


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## tanman (Jun 2, 2013)

Kakashi Is God said:


> Zoro is physically superior to what Ace was, and the fact that he doesn't use a DF helps too.
> 
> He might do slightly better than Ace simply due to his style, but he still hasn't got a chance of winning.



Somebody didn't read.


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## Canute87 (Jun 2, 2013)

Gura Teach wins.


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## Rob (Jun 2, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> Why would you make Zoro fight post time skip Blackbeard?
> Just for the hell of it, Zoro slices up all version of pre skip Teach
> I think Zoro would give Yonkou Teach extreme diff, Teach is extremely weak to swords. If Zoro gets sucked in, he slices Teach.



Oh my god!  I can't do it anymore 

I can't!


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## Klauser (Jun 2, 2013)

Zoro will Zoro.No diff.


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## HowlAndRage (Jun 2, 2013)

While Zoro will try to close the distance and do his casual slashing techniques, Teach will prepare his gura gura no mi and strike him while zoro is near his range. There isn't much to say about if or not Zoro can survive a Gura Gura no mi quake given that he hasn't shown anything impressive, as of yet. The only thing I can see Zoro doing is use his pound hou techniques and use the elapsed time of blackbeard distracted by his attack's thus slashing the latter while he is distracted.

Meh, I'll give it to Zoro.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 2, 2013)

Blackbeard with Yami feats is enough to beat Zoro.


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## HowlAndRage (Jun 2, 2013)

Eminem said:


> Blackbeard with Yami feats is enough to beat Zoro.



Not Post skip zoro... No way in hell.


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## Kanki (Jun 2, 2013)

tanman said:


> Somebody didn't read.



Ah, post skip Teach? I thought it said pre-skip.

In this case, Zolo wins


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## B Rabbit (Jun 2, 2013)

His DC output was able to rival Entei. Ace's strongest attack. Ace's other attacks were strong enough to take out a fleet of ships, and giant banana rock on the island they were fighting on. 

Blackbeard tanked multiple attacks from Ace. Said attack the one Ace destroyed the banero rock from. Not to mention attacks are doubled when it hits Blackbeard. I'm not even going to mention the attack he took from Whitebeard.

He reacted to Whitebeard and G2 Luffy. PSZoro isn't blitzing.


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## HowlAndRage (Jun 2, 2013)

Eminem said:


> His DC output was able to rival Entei. Ace's strongest attack. Ace's other attacks were strong enough to take out a fleet of ships, and giant banana rock on the island they were fighting on.
> 
> Blackbeard tanked multiple attacks from Ace. Said attack the one Ace destroyed the banero rock from. Not to mention attacks are doubled when it hits Blackbeard. I'm not even going to mention the attack he took from Whitebeard.
> 
> He reacted to Whitebeard and G2 Luffy. PSZoro isn't blitzing.



That doesn't mean anything, Blackbeard is slow regarding movement speed and will not even be able to dodge one of Zoro's fastest attack's to which far surpass Pre time skip Luffy's jet pistol that was able to hit Teach.

Hence, A pre time skip Zoro tanked much more damage than what Blackbeard ever did prior to fighting ace.

Yeah, and Whitebeard's bisento is fast? He never reacted to Luffy, he grasped Luffy with Black hole while the latter looked confused and didn't release his punch.


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## Gian Dh (Jun 3, 2013)

Zolo will solo, no diff. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



In all seriousness, blackbeard sucks him and cracks his skull with a quake, even if Zoro could react he'd have to output more destruction power than entei or a WB quake to the neck in one hit to have a chance of winning


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## Urouge (Jun 4, 2013)

HowlAndRage said:


> That doesn't mean anything, Blackbeard is slow regarding movement speed and will not even be able to dodge one of Zoro's fastest attack's to which far surpass Pre time skip Luffy's jet pistol that was able to hit Teach.
> 
> Hence, A pre time skip Zoro tanked much more damage than what Blackbeard ever did prior to fighting ace.
> 
> *Yeah, and Whitebeard's bisento is fast?* He never reacted to Luffy, he grasped Luffy with Black hole while the latter looked confused and didn't release his punch.



yup                                             .


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## STARSTRIKE (Jun 4, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> Why would you make Zoro fight post time skip Blackbeard?
> Just for the hell of it, Zoro slices up all version of pre skip Teach
> I think Zoro would give Yonkou Teach extreme diff, Teach is extremely weak to swords. If Zoro gets sucked in, he slices Teach.



+1





Kakashi Is God said:


> Zoro is physically superior to what Ace was, and the fact that he doesn't use a DF helps too.
> 
> He might do slightly better than Ace simply due to his style, but he still hasn't got a chance of winning.



*You can't compare Zoro with Ace, they are completely opposite in fighting styles and the fact that Blackbeard is a perfect counter to Devil fruit users proves that Someone without Devil Powers would be more troublesome for him.

The only way you can compare Ace's strength with Zorro is based on Ace's armwrestle with Luffy in Alabasta. Ace was equal to Luffy in strength back then and Luffy was stronger than Zoro so Ace > Zoro in brute strength PRE SKIP. Post skip it's pretty clear that Zoro is stronger than what Ace was when he battle Blackbeard. *




HowlAndRage said:


> While Zoro will try to close the distance and do his casual slashing techniques, Teach will prepare his gura gura no mi and strike him while zoro is near his range. There isn't much to say about if or not Zoro can survive a Gura Gura no mi quake given that he hasn't shown anything impressive, as of yet. The only thing I can see Zoro doing is use his pound hou techniques and use the elapsed time of blackbeard distracted by his attack's thus slashing the latter while he is distracted.
> 
> Meh, I'll give it to Zoro.



*The question here is of weather or not Zoro can survive a quake hit, i think he could based on what he was able to survive back in the Gekko Moria saga where Kuma transferred all of Luffy's damage to Zoro.

To put it simply, either BB will squash Zoro from a distance or Zoro gets close and BB gets chopped down.

 This fight is a question of weather or not Zoro can get close to use his swords and if he does, BB has absolutely no defense against it.*


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2013)

Teach took a slash from WB, WB > Zoro. He can and will tank a slash from Zoro. Teach is not weaker than a Pacifista.


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## RF (Jun 4, 2013)

Such ridiculous Blackbeard underestimation ...


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## HaxHax (Jun 4, 2013)

The zoro sets coming out strong 


*Spoiler*: __ 



lol swords autokill anyone
*Spoiler*: __ 



because that totally legitimizes your wankery
*Spoiler*: __ 



it's not like the strongest person in the series already tried to cut blackbeard with a direct hit
*Spoiler*: __ 



but zoro is stronger


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## STARSTRIKE (Jun 4, 2013)

Imagine said:


> Teach took a slash from WB, WB > Zoro. He can and will tank a slash from Zoro. Teach is not weaker than a Pacifista.



yeah i forgot about this, so ok he tanks the swords and then what? he pulls out his gun and shoots?


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## RF (Jun 4, 2013)

Then he rips his arm off with one hand, and shatters his skull into little pieces with the other.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 4, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> The zoro sets coming out strong
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



You do know WB did a no name slash and PIS was involved
Zoro's lion's song / Asura > Old WB's No name bisento slashes nerfed by plot

Zoro cuts off Yami BB's head, and he has no weakness like Ace had when he fought Yami BB

Post time skip Zoro >>>> Pre time skip BB (Low diff close to mid maybe)
Post time skip BB would still have trouble dealing with a swordsman like Zoro who has no weakness. Blackbeard is basically ment to fight DF users because his DF exploits their weakness. Zoro would give current BB high diff


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## HaxHax (Jun 4, 2013)

Without plot, Van Auger would be the world's most powerful man. You can't just ignore the manga and say "lol swords". Lol guns.


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## The Inevitable Llama (Jun 4, 2013)

And Haruhi wins again.


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## Imagine (Jun 4, 2013)

STARSTRIKE said:


> yeah i forgot about this, so ok he tanks the swords and then what? he pulls out his gun and shoots?


No, he shatters Zoro's neck with a punch like he almost did Ace's.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 4, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> Without plot, Van Auger would be the world's most powerful man. You can't just ignore the manga and say "lol swords". Lol guns.



That logic fails because guns are limited to the speed of the bullet, and type of ammunition . There is no strength being put behind guns thus it is capped at a certain DC. The only thing you could add to it in this manga would be seastone and possible Haki.
Swords and also fists on the other hand do more damage because they have no limit, the more force you put behind your slash/punch the more damage it will do

Swords>Fists>>Guns (In OP)


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## HaxHax (Jun 4, 2013)

*Guns > Devil Fruits > Swords

You can use haki with guns, and the projectiles are already faster than anything else. JUST GON GET SHOT IN THE HEAD. ANYTHING ELSE IS PIS. MUH GUNS.


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## Dellinger (Jun 4, 2013)

Ban the Zorotards.


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## Sayonara (Jun 4, 2013)

Zoro gets destroyed, wouldn't even have much hope for Zoro against non Gura BB.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 4, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> Zoro gets destroyed, wouldn't even have much hope for Zoro against non Gura BB.



How?
Zoro decapitates non Gura BB

does he use darkness to reattach his head or what?


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## Law (Jun 4, 2013)

BB high diff


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## HaxHax (Jun 4, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> does he use darkness to reattach his head or what?



He actually could, he's a logia.


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## convict (Jun 4, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> He actually could, he's a logia.



Nope. His logia properties are slightly different in that he does not become the element itself rather he exudes it. Not only does he have to tank normal attacks but they cause twice as much pain because of his fruit if I recall correctly. 

Not that he will get decapitated against Zoro in my opinion. But assuming there is a swordsman who can do so, BB is not reattaching his head.


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## HaxHax (Jun 4, 2013)

convict said:


> Nope. His logia properties are slightly different in that he does not become the element itself rather he exudes it. Not only does he have to tank normal attacks but they cause twice as much pain because of his fruit if I recall correctly.



General misconception that Blackbeard can't use his logia properties. Same with him taking "twice" the damage. Narutoforums #1 urban legend.

He doesn't use the logia form because using it won't help avoiding damage, as it will just suck in the attacks, rather than allowing the attacks to pass through. This will cause increased pain, should he use the logia form.

Handicapping the/a main villain like that (2x dmg) would be retarded writing.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 4, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> General misconception that Blackbeard can't use his logia properties. Same with him taking "twice" the damage. Narutoforums #1 urban legend.
> 
> He doesn't use the logia form because using it won't help avoiding damage, as it will just suck in the attacks, rather than allowing the attacks to pass through. This will cause increased pain, should he use the logia form.
> 
> Handicapping the/a main villain like that (2x dmg) would be retarded writing.



Manga doesn't state 2x or a definite value that all damage taken is multiplied by but it does state that he takes more than he normall would
This means BB has one of the most haxed durability if he can tank WB punches with this handicap
However, his crazy natural durability doesnt mean shit when it comes to swords
A missing head cut off by CoA is an automatic death
Swords = Blackbeard's weakness, he hasnt dodged any hits from any of his fights. Not dodging swords or blocking = gg
Swords > Blackbeard


Yonkou teach > Zoro = Gura teach > Yami teach


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## convict (Jun 4, 2013)

HaxHax said:


> General misconception that Blackbeard can't use his logia properties. Same with him taking "twice" the damage. Narutoforums #1 urban legend.
> 
> He doesn't use the logia form because using it won't help avoiding damage, as it will just suck in the attacks, rather than allowing the attacks to pass through. This will cause increased pain, should he use the logia form.



No. He downright stated he cannot fend off an attack. He then talked about pain afterwards. Logia form provides many advantages besides avoiding attacks. Compressibility, mobility, and maneuverability for example. He has never shown actually turning into darkness itself. Until he does I am going with the evidence. His fruit It is classified as a logia because he has an infinite supply of darkness and control over gravitation. However, its weakness  is an anomaly and a tradeoff for being so damn powerful. The specific ratio for the increase in pain the fruit provides may have been a rumor but the manga stressed that the fruit absorbs pain more than anything else.


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## Ryuksgelus (Jun 4, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> How?
> Zoro decapitates non Gura BB



If Zoro went for Teach's neck we'd see the same scene where blood spurts from Teach only for him to get up with a scratch to the neck, pull Zoro in, and begin pulverizing him.


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## Quuon (Jun 4, 2013)

Jesus Christ, seriously?

Gura Teach babyshakes, Zoro. End of discussion.


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## Doma (Jun 5, 2013)

convict said:


> No. He downright stated he cannot fend off an attack. He then talked about pain afterwards. Logia form provides many advantages besides avoiding attacks. Compressibility, mobility, and maneuverability for example. He has never shown actually turning into darkness itself. Until he does I am going with the evidence. His fruit It is classified as a logia because he has an infinite supply of darkness and control over gravitation. However, its weakness  is an anomaly and a tradeoff for being so damn powerful. The specific ratio for the increase in pain the fruit provides may have been a rumor but the manga stressed that the fruit absorbs pain more than anything else.



Blackbeard wouldn't be a logia if he couldn't turn into his element. He would be a paramecia just like Mr. 3 and Magellan are. Just because he's not tangible like other logias doesn't mean he's not one too. Logias powers are to turn into their element, not to be intangible. Intangibility is just a side effect of being made out of an element. Because Blackbeard's darkness sucks everything in, he takes damage.

And he doesn't turn into his element because making himself a bigger target isn't very beneficial. Plus his fruit probably isn't as deadly as most of the other logias, so it's easier to just suck them in and punch them. It could also turn out that because his fruit is gravity he can't disperse like other logias do.


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## convict (Jun 5, 2013)

> Blackbeard wouldn't be a logia if he couldn't turn into his element. He would be a paramecia just like Mr. 3 and Magellan are. Just because he's not tangible like other logias doesn't mean he's not one too. Logias powers are to turn into their element, not to be intangible. Intangibility is just a side effect of being made out of an element. Because Blackbeard's darkness sucks everything in, he takes damage.



The main point I was trying to make was about intangibility. Blackbeard is a logia but he is not intangible and thus cannot reattach his head on if it is cut off. Intangibility does not define being a logia. Becoming one's element _alone _also does not define being a logia either to be honest otherwise Jozu would be characterized as a logia. 

To be a logia, in my opinion, one must have an infinite quantity of one's element and one's body must be the source of it. Additionally, one must have overwhelming control over the element even if the element is not generated by oneself such as when Croc could generate storms of sand or Caesar could withhold oxygen from Luffy. I highly doubt Magellan can do the latter. This mastery over the element usually occurs because the individual in question is fundamentally an incarnation of the element itself. But in Blackbeard's case his body maintains the properties of his element without actually becoming the element. For example, when he touches you, he is still a solid figure with his own body, but that body maintains the properties of darkness which is why it sucks the DF out of you. Thus his head can still be chopped off for good even though he is a logia.


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## trance (Jun 5, 2013)

I see postTS Zoro as being just below Ace (Luffy being about equal) and since Ace lost to BB, Zoro does too.


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## Zyrax D Buggy (Jun 5, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> Manga doesn't state 2x or a definite value that all damage taken is multiplied by but it does state that he takes more than he normall would
> This means BB has one of the most haxed durability if he can tank WB punches with this handicap
> However, his crazy natural durability doesnt mean shit when it comes to swords
> A missing head cut off by CoA is an automatic death
> ...



teach survived a bisento strike from WB
but yeah Post skip Zoro > Yami Teach

not marineford teach though


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## jNdee~ (Jun 8, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> You do know WB did a no name slash and PIS was involved
> Zoro's lion's song / Asura > Old WB's No name bisento slashes nerfed by plot
> 
> Zoro cuts off Yami BB's head, and he has no weakness like Ace had when he fought Yami BB
> ...



WB doesn't name his attacks.


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## Reliettor (Jun 8, 2013)

Ryuksgelus said:


> If Zoro went for Teach's neck we'd see the same scene where blood spurts from Teach only for him to get up with a scratch to the neck, pull Zoro in, and begin pulverizing him.



Zoro cutting a pacifista is much harden than him cutting teach; a human who's made of nothing more but tissue and flash. The fact still remains about the pacifista armor being more durable than Teach's skin. Zoro can slice teach if he ever gets the opportunity. By the way, teach can't pull Zoro since the latter doesn't have a devil fruit.


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## Coruscation (Jun 8, 2013)

> To be a logia, in my opinion, one must have an infinite quantity of one's element and one's body must be the source of it.



Becoming a Logia is in fact about turning one's body into an element. This is Oda's own definition:

"Logia (nature) type can *turn their bodies* into something completely different. Zoan (animal) type can turn into animals. Everything aside from those is lumped into the Paramecia (superhuman) category. However, *there are some Paramecia who can change their own bodies, as well*."



The second bolded part answers your problem with Jozu supposedly being a Logia if that's what it was about. The reason Blackbeard is one and not Jozu is that Jozu doesn't fit under the "nature" system. Darkness is a "force of nature" as all the other Logia types are. This is also from Oda's own definition:



"Logia [...] gives control over the forces of nature."

The reason Blackbeard can't avoid attacks like other Logia is because of the _nature_ of his element. The property of Darkness is to pull everything in. When an attack hits Blackbeard it is pulled into his body, which happens precisely because his body is made of darkness. You can also clearly see in the scan below that his very body consists of darkness, it doesn't merely exude it:



Blackbeard is a Logia like all others. He turns his body into an element. It's simply the specific property of his element that prevents him from evading attacks.


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## Neruc (Jun 8, 2013)

Wasn't Yami Blackbeard cut by Whitebeard,and he got up?
Not really seeing how Zoro can win.


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## Law (Jun 8, 2013)

I think so @ Neruc. 

Yami Teach wins high diff
Gura Teach wins low diff
Yonkou Teach rapes


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## Jungle (Jun 8, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Ban the Zorotards.


But he's hilariously bad.


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## PwnGoatVSPandaman (Jun 8, 2013)

Luffy is about to fight the 12th strongest member of kaidou's crew.
Number 10 is suspect to be Drake, someone comparable in strength to what luffy should be right now.

Yet Zoro can beat a yonkou
Yeah okay.


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## Kid (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackbeard Gura did this _pre_ skip



Now 2 years been passed and I think he trained the gura like fuck

Zoro gets quaked.


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## STARSTRIKE (Jun 10, 2013)

The fact that Blackbird is a Yonko could very well be the equivalent of Buggy being a Schibukai.

Before we do any simulations i think we should first answer the question:


Which one of them has the stronger Haki?


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackbeard hasn't even shown Haki


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## Sanji (Jun 10, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> Blackbeard hasn't even shown Haki



And he brings it on home everybody.


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## TrainerRed (Jun 10, 2013)

SesshomaruX2 said:


> Yami teach Loses. Gura teach wins.



Both versions of Teach would stomp the Monster Trio...come on now.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 11, 2013)

STARSTRIKE said:


> *The fact that Blackbird is a Yonko could very well be the equivalent of Buggy being a Schibukai.
> *
> Before we do any simulations i think we should first answer the question:
> 
> ...



Not a chance in hell, and there is nothing suggesting this is the case.

Black-beard one-shots Zoro he has not shown the feats to suggest he can tank a quake punch from BB.


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## Lmao (Jun 11, 2013)

"Teach survived Whitebeard's bisento attack therefore Zoro can't cut Teach" 
Quite frankly one of the worst arguments around, it's like using  to prove Mihawk can't cut steel.


BB didn't die from that attack because Whitebeard...

- suffered a serious injury before even joining the battle
- fought all Admirals, suffering various injuries from each one
- poor health (heart attack during battle)
- various injuries from fodder marines (cannons, stabs, gunshots etc)
- was _*missing HALF HIS FUCKING HEAD*_

_..._all that _before_ encountering Teach so maybe just maybe he was no longer WSM at that point! Never understood the fuss over it, Teach surviving near dead WB's attacks IS NOT IMPRESSIVE, not as much as some of you make of it anyway.


Now may that terrible argument be sunk into the depths of the ocean and never be brought to life again.


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## TrainerRed (Jun 11, 2013)

Yeah anyways Blackbeard tanked a fucking quake punch from a pissed off WB. Teach laughs off anything he throws at him.


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## Language of Life (Jun 11, 2013)

He would have a hard enough time fighting Yami Teach. Now you are putting him up against Yami teach with offensive capabilities far outstripping that of anything Zoro can hope to handle. Zoro does not stand a chance, portrayal or feat wise.


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## BitterCold (Jun 13, 2013)

Pre-Gura Gura Blackbeard > Ace > Current Luffy > Current Zoro

Blackbeard ez.


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## ShadowReaper (Jun 13, 2013)

Teach stomps, especially the case if he is with Gura-Gura and Yami-Yami.


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## Teach (Jun 13, 2013)

Zolo wins no difficulty


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## Jungle (Jun 13, 2013)

Blackbeard would win, whatever difficulty, don't care.



> The fact that Blackbird is a Yonko could very well be the equivalent of Buggy being a Schibukai.



Leave this forum.


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## Dellinger (Jun 13, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> Blackbeard hasn't even shown Haki



Blackbeard is the first one who mentioned the term "Haki" in OP.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Jun 13, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Blackbeard is the first one who mentioned the term "Haki" in OP.



And Robin pointed out Luffy using CoC
Does that mean she has it too?


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## Zyrax (Jun 13, 2013)

zehahahaha


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## Dellinger (Jun 13, 2013)

Haruhifan6969 said:


> And Robin pointed out Luffy using CoC
> Does that mean she has it too?



How did Teach know about Luffy's haki before even awakening it?

Robin saw Luffy using it,Teach saw nothing.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

Robin could never sense haki preskip. During the Flying Fish arc she didn't know what Luffy did to Duval's animal. 

However after being around the the revalutionaries, who's leader is very famous for his CoC, she knew what it was. 

Blackbeard however knew Luffy had haki before Luffy even awakened his CoC.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 13, 2013)

Eminem said:


> Robin could never sense haki preskip. During the Flying Fish arc she didn't know what Luffy did to Duval's animal.
> 
> However after being around the the revalutionaries, who's leader is very famous for his CoC, she knew what it was.
> 
> Blackbeard however knew Luffy had haki before Luffy even awakened his CoC.



False statement, it was never implied in the series that Dragon was a notable user of Coc.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

Bullshit.

After Luffy used CoC at the war. Garp said you have have it too Luffy. An then Iva said, (Who, is a subordinate under Dragon) said the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 13, 2013)

Eminem said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> After Luffy used CoC at the war. Garp said you have have it too Luffy. An then Iva said, (Who, is a subordinate under Dragon) said the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.



What you've done is twisted the manga's statements. My argument still stands, as opposed to yours, which can be regarded as fallacious given that it was never implemented that Dragon is a master of Color of conqueror. What you're doing is speculating, per see, which isn't relevant since it's your hypothesis and is not a fact that has had adequate proof to back up the said statement. It's true that Dragon may have CoC, although it will always remain speculation until proven otherwise by Oda.

I never stated that Dragon "does not have CoC", albeit I stated that it was never implied that Dragon is a master CoC user.

Edit: meant conqueror, not observation.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

I didn't twist anywords around. 

when Luffy showed his CoC, everyone immediantly started comparing him to his Father. Which leads me to believe that he is very well known for his CoC. 

It would be down right retarded to believe Dragon isn't a master of CoC haki, but you're right, it wasn't stated.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 13, 2013)

Eminem said:


> I didn't twist anywords around.
> 
> when Luffy showed his CoC, everyone immediantly started comparing him to his Father. Which leads me to believe that he is very well known for his CoC.
> 
> It would be down right retarded to believe Dragon isn't a master of CoC haki, but you're right, it wasn't stated.



It's true that Dragon could have CoC (Since it hasn't been proven), although Garp states otherwise. They compared Luffy because they're related. Simple as that...

Claiming that Dragon is a master of CoC isn't a valid argument considering that there is an abundance of lack of proof surrounding that theory.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

Actually Garp and Iva's comments already prove Dragon has CoC. There is plenty of proof of that. 

I already stated you were right about the mastery. Stop beating a dead horse.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 13, 2013)

Eminem said:


> Actually Garp and Iva's comments already prove Dragon has CoC. There is plenty of proof of that.
> 
> I already stated you were right about the mastery. Stop beating a dead horse.



Facts my friend are 100% true like 2+2=4, that can't be denied no matter what, its a given truth. But something that is depicted, and hinted towards is just oda giving you the assumption that it is true. Please tell me how an assumption, is anything close to being a 100% true cold hard fact? you think the ocean is blue right? that's an assumption, but in reality it's clear, and reflects the blue rays of light from the sky, the sky isn't blue, it's just that blue light particles get caught in it.

Your initial argument "However after being around the the revalutionaries, who's leader is very famous for his CoC, she knew what it was" 

My argument in which I responded to your above argument "False statement, it was never implied in the series that Dragon was a notable user of Coc." The key word here is "NOTABLE" 

Now who is beating a dead horse 

Edit: I'm aiming my post's towards your "Dragon was said to be a notable CoC master" not the one about him actually having CoC.


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## WhocaresReally (Jun 13, 2013)

Zoro may be good at long range attacks but Teach has incredibly high durability and the yami yami that pull things in. Zoro would put up a good fight but eventually would lose with a clean hit by a quake bubble punch.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

TouyaTheIceDemon said:


> Facts my friend are 100% true like 2+2=4, that can't be denied no matter what, its a given truth. But something that is depicted, and hinted towards is just oda giving you the assumption that it is true. Please tell me how an assumption, is anything close to being a 100% true cold hard fact? you think the ocean is blue right? that's an assumption, but in reality it's clear, and reflects the blue rays of light from the sky, the sky isn't blue it just that blue light particles get caught in it.
> 
> Your initial argument "However after being around the the revalutionaries, who's leader is very famous for his CoC, she knew what it was"
> 
> ...



These are facts.



Here Vice Admiral says its only natural. 

He knows Luffy should have it because he's related to Dragon. 

Here we have.



Directly compare Luffy to his father. Saying Luffy's just like him. She made that comparison when Luffy unleashed his CoC. She's a direct subordinate of Dragon. She knows Dragon has CoC. It would be stupid in pointless to make claims like that if Dragon didn't have CoC. 

Right now you're trolling, and not really reading my post. I already said that you were right, we don't know if Dragon is a master of CoC. However we know Dragon does have CoC. That's what I'm saying. I don't know why you keep bringing it up that he hasn't been proven to be a master.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 13, 2013)

Eminem said:


> These are facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, seeing from your feed your standard way of communicating is calling everyone a moron.

Those are all speculations. I have admitted that Dragon has CoC for the simple fact that Garp stated (In a stressful manner) "You too" 

Your initial argument "However after being around the the revolutionaries, who's leader is very famous for his CoC, she knew what it was"

My argument in which I responded to your above argument "False statement, it was never implied in the series that Dragon was a notable user of Coc." The key word here is "NOTABLE"

How can you deduce that prior to luffy unleashing CoC, Iva correlated  Luffy's use of CoC with Dragon? That's absurd and nonsensical since we don't know whether or not Ivankov has seen Dragon using CoC. She might of known CoC because it is generic. Even fodder pirates and marines know of CoC.

If I dismantle your argument, it is clearly meant to claim that in the series, it has been implied that Dragon is a notable CoC, which he isn't since it has never been proven. All you're doing is speculating about Dragon being a CoC master when it has never been implied in the series. It is not a viable argument. Rather, it is fallacious and has been backed up with poor reasoning's.

In short, I've proven that your initial argument states that Dragon is a notable CoC master even when he has never been proven of such hype. You're speculating, which is irrelevant in a debate given that it is an UN-objective opinion which isn't supported with facts. The scientific method cannot prove anything to be "true". it can only prove what is "not true". if something has been proven untrue, it becomes a fact that under whatever conditions or experimental results, that something has been proven to be untrue. so a fact, inherently is limited to labeling things that have been proven "untrue". we simply don't have methods to prove "truth" to a degree of certainty, we can only prove what is untrue in a number of ways in order to eliminate towards what is "possibly true".

You've made your terminology of dragon being a notable coc user, which isn't backed up by facts and automatically renders that argument fallacious.

You're basically discrediting yourself.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

When you brought up the fact again, that Dragon hasn't been proven to have be a master. I noticed you are just repeating the same stuff.

I proved to you Dragon has CoC. 

You proved to me Dragon doesn't have to be a master. 

Yet you keep bringing up the argument to me which proves to me you aren't actually reading what I'm saying. Try again another time but concessions accepted until you actually read my post.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

Just for the sake of it. 

I first said. Dragon had to be a master of Haki. 

You then said Dragon doesn't have haki, and that I twisted the words around. Correct? 

Ok. 

I told you manga evidence, and that I admitted we don't know if Dragon is master. I agreed with you on that. 

You then said I was assuming Dragon had haki, and said that I was continuing stating that Dragon was a master at CoC haki. 

Then I showed you the proof that Dragon has CoC haki, and said yet again. That you were right. Dragon doesn't have to be a master at CoC haki. 

You then agree with me that Dragon has CoC haki, but yet again stated that I was saying Dragon was master at CoC haki. Even then literally 2-3 times I stated you were right about it. 

Next post you're are going to say that. Again I stated Dragon was a master of CoC haki, which again I would say. For the 3-4 time that Dragon doesn't have to be and I agree with you. 

You can do this all day. I don't really care.


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## TouyaTheIceDemon (Jun 14, 2013)

Eminem said:


> When you brought up the fact again, that Dragon hasn't been proven to have be a master. I noticed you are just repeating the same stuff.
> 
> I proved to you Dragon has CoC.
> 
> ...



I never repeated the same thing, rather, I tried to reiterate what I had wrote prior to responding to your initial argument because you have yet to abnegate my argument about Dragon having CoC being speculation. 

You never proved that dragon has CoC. For an argument to be viewed as a proof, you'll need Evidence supporting a fact of a statement. Since you have no evidence about Dragon having CoC, you either have to concede and without further a do, cease your fallacious bickering in which you keep repeating the same thing.


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## B Rabbit (Jun 14, 2013)

Concessions Accepted.


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## trance (Jun 25, 2013)

Teach takes this low difficulty. Yami Yami Teach could beat Zoro mid difficulty.


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