# Alabasta: Luffy vs Mr1



## oiety (Mar 22, 2020)

Location: Zoro vs Mr 1
Alabasta versions of both of course. They start like, 40 feet away.


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## Steven (Mar 22, 2020)

Zorro was able to defeat him

And Ruffy is the captain ergo>Zorro.He wins around mid-diff


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## lastkiller (Mar 22, 2020)

Whoever posted this just want the Zoro fanboys to do their thing.....Zoro is never equal to Luffy smh ......

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

Mr.1 wins bad match up for Luffy.

Every hit Luffy swings his way lands him the high risk of his fist smashing into a Sharp blade. The stronger Luffy punches the more damage he will do to himself. The more damage luffys fist and arms take the harder it will be for him to deliver strong enough attacks to break through Mr.1 defence. Unlike Zoro, luffy also does not have the advantage of being able to effectively block mr.1s attacks as Zoro himself could barely do it, espicially when he brought out the Buzz Saw or whatever it was called.

Mr.1 attack power is also extremely high. Took like 4 attacks from him to completely fuck Zoro up to the point of near death. Add on all the extra damage Luffy will be dealing to himself by just punching him in the first place and he does down eventually.

The logic of Luffy>Zoro so he beats Mr.1 is  also flawed as they are not the same type of fighters. Luffy beat Enel but Enel would solo the whole strawhat crew low diff. Can Luffy solo the whole strawhat crew in Skypeia with low diff, not likely.


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## Kinjin (Mar 22, 2020)

Edward Teach said:


> Luffy loses. Unless during the fight, he figures a way to beat MR1 just like zoro. Which is possible, but I'm leaning towards luffy loses





Edward Teach said:


> The Luffy > Daz just because Luffy > Zoro
> It's not as simple logic as you make it sound to be. There are things called match ups, and they do matter in battles.
> 
> For example. Lucci > Sky island Luffy.
> ...


6 years ago. Did your opinion change?

Back then you were known as Lawliet...


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mr.1 wins bad match up for Luffy.


Nope.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Every hit Luffy swings his way lands him the high risk of his fist smashing into a Sharp blade. The stronger Luffy punches the more damage he will do to himself. The more damage luffys fist and arms take the harder it will be for him to deliver strong enough attacks to break through Mr.1 defence. Unlike Zoro, luffy also does not have the advantage of being able to effectively block mr.1s attacks as Zoro himself could barely do it, espicially when he brought out the Buzz Saw or whatever it was called.
> 
> Mr.1 attack power is also extremely high. Took like 4 attacks from him to completely fuck Zoro up to the point of near death. Add on all the extra damage Luffy will be dealing to himself by just punching him in the first place and he does down eventually.


Seriously, just read the Don Krieg fight. Or the Arlong fight. Where is this myth of Luffy being completely stumped by any non blunt damage?



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The logic of Luffy>Zoro so he beats Mr.1 is  also flawed as they are not the same type of fighters. Luffy beat Enel but Enel would solo the whole strawhat crew low diff. Can Luffy solo the whole strawhat crew in Skypeia with low diff, not likely.


The logic of everything you said here is flawed because nobody in the crew could even touch Enel because of him being a logia and Luffy had immunity to majority of Enel's attack because of rubber. It's a horrible analogy for Luffy vs Mr 1, because both parties are quite capable of hurting each other.


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## Canute87 (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Mr.1 wins bad match up for Luffy.
> 
> Every hit Luffy swings his way lands him the high risk of his fist smashing into a Sharp blade. The stronger Luffy punches the more damage he will do to himself. The more damage luffys fist and arms take the harder it will be for him to deliver strong enough attacks to break through Mr.1 defence. Unlike Zoro, luffy also does not have the advantage of being able to effectively block mr.1s attacks as Zoro himself could barely do it, espicially when he brought out the Buzz Saw or whatever it was called.
> 
> ...



That all depends on how quickly mr 1 can turn parts of his body into sharp blades.

If luffy hits the none sharp areas then he should be able to hurt daz bones,  luffy did break through kreig's armour so it's not impossible and croc is a more versatile fighter.


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

oiety said:


> Location: Zoro vs Mr 1
> Alabasta versions of both of course. They start like, 40 feet away.


LOL, I wanted to make this thread.


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 22, 2020)

*Spoiler*: __ 

















/thread

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Mar 22, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But are arlong's blades the same quality as daz bones body?  I do not think so.Zoro completely broke hachi's swords and couldn't dent daz bones. 

Don Kreig's armour is just armour, it has hollow points in it while daz bones in pure steel to the blood and bone.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Beast (Mar 22, 2020)

Luffy beats this fucker like a dog. 

Luffy is faster, stronger and more agile them little Daz, luffy isn’t immune to sharp objects, just like any other person aka Zoro, he does not have weakness against sharp weapons anymore then the average person, thanks to his DF he is immune to blunt damage without haki there is a difference. 

People keep forgetting that Luffy dealt with likes of Megallen and crocodile, luffy is a  freaking genius and creative when it comes to fighting, even if he can’t directly touch the person, even though he actually can touch Daz body freely, a few minor cuts and slashed ain’t putting luffy down.


Given how easily Daz went down as soon as Zoro went past his defence, all it takes is a solid hit from luffy and Daz is on his knees. Luffy was keeping up with croc who is levels above Daz, despite the plot driven win. Daz is physical no match for luffy and he isn’t severing a limb off luffy, Daz does not have good reaction, all he does is eat attacks, luffy will dance around him and play with him. 

Daz has a freaking rivalry with Bon-chan, people be serious now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> But are arlong's blades the same quality as daz bones body?  I do not think so.Zoro completely broke hachi's swords and couldn't dent daz bones.
> 
> Don Kreig's armour is just armour, it has hollow points in it while daz bones in pure steel to the blood and bone.


Irelevent this is solid bed rock:



And went through this first:





That did this:


Canute87 said:


> t while daz bones in pure steel to the blood and bone.




That is ticker that Mr1's body!

And Luffy's punched first destroyed those attacks and then did that from above!
@Gledania, @Flame, @T.D.A @Donquixote Doflamingo

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 22, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> But are arlong's blades the same quality as daz bones body?  I do not think so.Zoro completely broke hachi's swords and couldn't dent daz bones.
> 
> Don Kreig's armour is just armour, it has hollow points in it while daz bones in pure steel to the blood and bone.


Arlong's sword is surely of higher quality than Hachi's. He had it when he was with the sun pirates as well. We also see him destroy Kriegs greatest weapon just by punching it.

Daz bones isn't literally steel to blood and bone otherwise he would never bleed would he?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> That all depends on how quickly mr 1 can turn parts of his body into sharp blades.
> 
> If luffy hits the none sharp areas then he should be able to hurt daz bones,  luffy did break through kreig's armour so it's not impossible and croc is a more versatile fighter.



He should be able to do it neigh instantly. So unless Luffy can consistently blitz him(which he can't) that's not a very viable option.

But I do agree Luffy can hurt Mr.1. He will just be hurting himself in the process as well the mass majority of the time.




Vivo Diez said:


> Nope.



Yes




> Seriously, just read the Don Krieg fight. Or the Arlong fight. Where is this myth of Luffy being completely stumped by any non blunt damage?



Who said Luffy was completely stumped by non blunt damage? I surely didn't. 

Trying to compare Don Kriegs little cloak(which still hurt luffy by the way when he punched it) to Mr.1s blades   

If Luffy wants to grab hold of Mr.1 to try and crush his arm or something like he crushed Arlongs sword he is more then welcome to try. It's going to end up with his hand and fingers getting fucked up by protruding blades. Following up by a buzz saw to the face  





> The logic of everything you said here is flawed because nobody in the crew could even touch Enel because of him being a logia and Luffy had immunity to majority of Enel's attack because of rubber. It's a horrible analogy for Luffy vs Mr 1, because both parties are quite capable of hurting each other.



The point of the Enel comparison is that MATCHUPS MATTER. A>B>C logic does not automatically applie. One piece is not DBZ


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He should be able to do it neigh instantly. So unless Luffy can consistently blitz him(which he can't) that's not a very viable option.
> 
> But I do agree Luffy can hurt Mr.1. He will just be hurting himself in the process as well the mass majority of the time.





Ren. said:


> Irelevent this is solid bed rock:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I think I showed that Luffy had the damage to bust his steal body and he can have the power to even crush his blades after all the final attack busted to attacks that can cut Mr1 in half.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He will just be hurting himself in the process as well the mass majority of the time.


And that is not relevant:


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

.


Ren. said:


> I think I showed that Luffy had the damage to bust his steal body and he can have the power to even crush his blades after all the final attack busted to attacks that can cut Mr1 in half.



I agree Luffy can hurt Mr.1 never said otherwise.

The question is can he take down Mr.1 before Mr.1 does enough damage to him. I personally doubt it.

It's going to take like 4 direct hits from Mr.1 before Luffy is on his knees add on the extra damage that Luffy will be doing to himself and I dont think he can hold out.



Ren. said:


> And that is not relevant:



Not sure what you are getting at exactly? What does Croc stabbing Luffy, and Luffy talking about Crocs weakness have to do with what you quoted.


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> It's going to take like 4 direct hits from Mr.1 before Luffy is on his knees add on the extra damage that Luffy will be doing to himself and I dont think he can hold out.


I just posted that he punches can do this:


that can cut steel ticker than Mr1's Body!


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> It's going to take like 4 direct hits from Mr.1 before Luffy is on his knees add on the extra damage that Luffy will be doing to himself and I dont think he can hold out.


I just posted that he punches can do this:


that can cut steel ticker than Mr1's Body!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not sure what you
> are getting at exactly? What does Croc stabbing Luffy, and Luffy talking about Crocs weakness have to do with what you quoted.


He survived a stabbing and he was fighting like this:


+ Poisoned and he did this in that shape:


So how is MR1 finishing him off before he gets hit by this?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I just posted that he punches can do this:
> 
> 
> that can cut steel ticker than Mr1's Body!



What's your point exactly Ren?

Yes Luffy can hurt Mr.1 no one is arguing otherwise.

Or are you trying to say Luffy will one shot him or something cause otherwise I'm not sure where you are going with this?


To answer your other points, a couple of these would do the trick.  

Also Luffy attacking Mr.1 with a gatling/storm is literally the worst attack in luffys entire arsenal he can use vs him.


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What's your point exactly Ren?
> 
> Yes Luffy can hurt Mr.1 no one is arguing otherwise.
> 
> Or are you trying to say Luffy will one shot him or something cause otherwise I'm not sure where you are going with this?


I am saying he can endure all his attacks and dodge the deadlier ones.

And he can finish with this:

That is way above what Mr1 can take.

This can cut through Mr 1 body:


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## Canute87 (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> He should be able to do it neigh instantly. So unless Luffy can consistently blitz him(which he can't) that's not a very viable option.
> 
> But I do agree Luffy can hurt Mr.1. He will just be hurting himself in the process as well the mass majority of the time.


If he can hurt mr 1 then it becomes a battle of who can outlast who, and luffy's will power is significant.

So Mr 1 draws more blood but that's about it.


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> To answer your other points, a couple of these would do the trick.


Again this shits  on  that attacks:

As it legitly cut steel:

*Spoiler*: __ 









I don't have the time to cut the actual manga panels but if you want I will do so!

And after destroying that attack he did this:

*Spoiler*: __ 








And Mr1 has not legit feats taking this kind of attack!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Also Luffy attacking Mr.1 with a gatling/storm is literally the worst attack in luffys entire arsenal he can use vs him.


Not when the attack pushed trough big ass blades that can but steel denser than Mr1 body!

And Mr 1 with his speed will never land that kind of big attacks:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Luffy was switching attacks in the entire fight with Crocodile:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Mr 1 will never land those big attacks!


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> If he can hurt mr 1 then it becomes a battle of who can outlast who, and luffy's will power is significant.
> 
> So Mr 1 draws more blood but that's about it.



 Zoros will power is also significant and he was near death after 4 hits, and after 2 hits in a row dropped his weapons and was completely defenseless aka plot aside Mr.1 could of just slit his throat then and there. He needed a Shonen voice of all things to avoid getting crushed by rocks and then finally being able to win followed by him collapsing. 

Here is Mr.1 fucking up Zoros life for reference. One side attack swipe brought him to his knees, the second leaves him white eyed and completely defenseless.




So how many hits is Luffy really gonna be taking here? How long can he avoid getting hit by a buzz saw to the gut while punching blades? 

Luffy is Luffy so you can't downplay his endurance that is for sure but in Battledome scenario I try to avoid factoring in Shonen will power. In a manga scenario yea Luffy is the MC he gets back up again and again just like he did vs Katakuri. This ain't the manga though it's the battledome. Luffys not gonna keep getting up forever he is going to bleed to death fairly quickly as Mr.1 cuts him up.


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## Canute87 (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoros will power is also significant and he was near death after 4 hits, and after 2 hits in a row dropped his weapons and was completely defenseless aka plot aside Mr.1 could of just slit his throat then and there. He needed a Shonen voice of all things to avoid getting crushed by rocks and then finally being able to win followed by him collapsing.
> 
> Here is Mr.1 fucking up Zoros life for reference. One side attack swipe brought him to his knees, the second leaves him white eyed and completely defenseless.
> 
> ...



But this is the result of a battle zoro was facing when he couldn't hurt daz bones at all.

The minute he gained the ability to hurt daz bones he got got completely one shotted.

So luffy will not be getting hits constantly  from daz bones at peak strength,  his attacks will get progressively weaker as he sustains more damage from luffy.

Daz bones is not tanking  a bazooka.

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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So how many hits is Luffy really gonna be taking here? How long can he avoid getting hit by a buzz saw to the gut while punching blades?


Again did you read the fight he is avoid all of those:


Luffy is not Zoro, he does not tank sharp attack he dodges like this!

And attacks like this:




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> but in Battledome scenario I try to avoid factoring in Shonen will power.


So you then need to disregard Zoro cuting Mr1 also because that is as Luffy's endurance plot based has no logical explanation like water on sand?



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Luffys not gonna keep getting up forever he is going to bleed to death fairly quickly as Mr.1 cuts him up.


No one ever cut Luffy not even Mihawk but you seem to believe the slow Mr1 is now an exception when Luffy dodged point black all Crocodile's cutting attacks to the body and at the end busted them with his feats and those attacks can cut even steel!

And again Luffy can wound Mr1  he is not like Zoro that needed the plot to damage him.


Canute87 said:


> Daz bones is not tanking a bazooka.


He is not tanking Luffy's attacks and Luffy can control where he hits not hiring his blades in the big attacks as I have shown you here:


and here:


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 22, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> But this is the result of a battle zoro was facing when he couldn't hurt daz bones at all.



As is the benefit Mr.1 gets from having his DF. That aside though Mr.1 body being hard was not what lead to Zoro getting fucked up in the panels I posted. That was a result of Zoro not being able to deal with Mr.1s attack.



> The minute he gained the ability to hurt daz bones he got got completely one shotted.



Zoro one shots virtually all his opponents though to be fair.



> So luffy will not be getting hits constantly  from daz bones at peak strength


, 

Charcters in one piece our rarely shown to be severely effected by injuries in terms of attacks.

Case in point the very fight we are discussing. Lion song was Zoros strongest attack to date and he did it moments before passing out and at death's door(his words)





> his attacks will get progressively weaker as he sustains more damage from luffy.



Not by much and that logic also applies to Luffy does it not?

All Mr.1 did was spin his blades around his arm to fuck Zoro up, I dont think Luffy hurting Mr.1 is going to greatly reduce the speed at which he can spin his blades.



> Daz bones is not tanking  a bazooka.



Zoros Oni Giri was shown to be Equal to luffys Bazooka. Mr.1 can do the same and negate the attack with one of his own. With the added bonus of Luffy hurting himself on his blades. 

If you are saying Luffys bazooka can one shot him I very much doubt it.


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## Ren. (Mar 22, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro one shots virtually all his opponents though to be fair.


All with plot: Kaku and Mr 1!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Not by much and that logic also applies to Luffy does it not?


Luffy has feats of dodging point black attack, he can stretch, he has feats of crushing steal and fisting pikes!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If you are saying Luffys bazooka can one shot him I very much doubt it.


This as a finisher one-shots Mr.1 as he did with Crocodile!


As he has the damage output and negated an attack that can cut Mr1:




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoros Oni Giri was shown to be Equal to luffys Bazooka. Mr.1 can do the same.


Zoro's onigiri can't scratch steel, Luffy's attacks can dent steel so not the same!


I think  you are downplay the attacks from Luffy and insisting that Mr1 can land his when Crocodile was not lading his so Crocodile is slower than Mr.1

And Crocodile is deadline than Mr1 as proven in the manga:

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> All with plot: Kaku and Mr 1!



Mr.1 yes. 

Kaku maybe. I personally think a Three Thousand Worlds from Zoro could also finish off Kaku maybe just not with one attack he might have to use it 2 or 3 times. 



> Luffy has feats of dodging point black attack, he can stretch, he has feats of crushing steal and fisting pikes!



I agree Luffy can dodge Mr.1 I'm not trying to suggest every attack mr.1 throws at Luffy is going to land. 

But given that Mr.1 only needs to land 1 attack to do massive damage to Luffy he only needs 1 out of 10 hits to land in order to start getting good results. Again I need to stress this *ONE ATTACK FROM MR.1 BROUGHT ZORO TO HIS KNEES. *Mr.1 only needs to hit Luffy once to potentially open up space for a combo attack, and if mr.1 gets one combo attack off the fight is basically over. 



> This as a finisher one-shots Mr.1 as he did with Crocodile!



That's a terrible idea Luffy would be repeatedly smashing his fists into Mr.1 blades. If Luffy muscles through the attack yea he can beat him with that attack. 

Personally I think he would be better off trying to knock him out with a Axe to the head Arlong style. 



> As he has the damage output and negated an attack that can cut Mr1:



Crocs sand is not as durable as Mr.1s body. 

Evident by Luffys hand being completely uninjured by punching crocs sand blade, but when Luffy punches Don Kriegs spiked cloak his hand bleeds just fine. 




> Zoro's onigiri can't scratch steel, Luffy's attacks can dent steel so not the same!



True it's not the same, but the point I'm trying to make is that Zoro has the force needed to negate luffys bazooka. Mr.1 overpowered Zoro in a power struggle so he can replicate Zoros feat. 

Of course if Mr.1 eats a Bazooka unguarded it will hurt. 




> I think  you are downplay the attacks from Luffy and insisting that Mr1 can land his when Crocodile was not lading his so Crocodile is slower than Mr.1



And I think you are downplaying the significance of punching a blade. 

Go punch a pillow doesn't hurt right. 

Go punch your wall, hurts a little right? 

Go punch a rock, hurts a fucking lot right? 

Now go punch a Sharp ass Katana. Please don't  XD. 

Now add on to that Luffys super human speed and strength flying straight into Mr.1s blades. To be honest Mr.1 can just play defense and win that way. He knew Zoro could not hurt him so he made little effort to block or counter his attacks why would he? The moment Luffy hurts Mr.1 he will make a conscious effort to actually block/counter his attacks and put up his guard from luffys attack. 

Also Mr.1 is not a weak snail he outmaneuvered zoro and overpowered him as well. He is not lacking in speed or strength. luffys big attacks take obvious wide motions as he swings his arm far back for a snap back. Which gives Mr.1 plenty of time to put his guard up. A guard that consists of blades that will not only greatly reduce the impact of luffys attacks but fuck his hands up in the process. 

So the arguement of Luffy is just going to lol smash Mr.1 into pieces and dance around all his attacks the entire time is a weak one imo.


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## Etherborn (Mar 23, 2020)

I have more confidence in Luffy's endurance than Daz's durability, so Luffy. And that's even assuming he aims his punches at Mr. 1's blades like an idiot. Every blade has an edge and a flat side, and Daz hasn't been shown to turn every part of his body into a blade. His face is fair game, for example. It's still made of steel, but he hasn't shown the ability to sharpen it like his arms, legs, and fingers. 

So all Luffy really has to do is outmaneuver Daz, which he CAN do since Zoro was nearly blitzing him at the beginning of their fight, and land enough punches to the face, which we know WILL knock Daz out at some point since Luffy could shatter Don Krieg's armor with his fists even back in East Blue. Considering the increase in strength that Luffy showed between East Blue and his fight with Croc, this might even end in a few moves if Luffy decides to set up for a Gomu Gomu no Storm from the start.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

I see a desperate reaction to the Zoro vs Croc thread.


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## Canute87 (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> As is the benefit Mr.1 gets from having his DF. That aside though Mr.1 body being hard was not what lead to Zoro getting fucked up in the panels I posted. That was a result of Zoro not being able to deal with Mr.1s attack.


Because prior to cutting steel the attacks were virtually useless. Mr 1 was in complete control of that fight. 



> Zoro one shots virtually all his opponents though to be fair.


Well........




> Not by much and that logic also applies to Luffy does it not?



LUFFY?!  No dude,



> All Mr.1 did was spin his blades around his arm to fuck Zoro up, I dont think Luffy hurting Mr.1 is going to greatly reduce the speed at which he can spin his blades.



He spun his blade to hit a zoro that was already bleeding while he was at peak strength, A fight with luffy would not realistically bring that dynamic where luffy is bleeding out hell and he's untouched.  
If luffy does manage to ger hit he  would persevere through that just like he did lucci's rokugan, twice in fact,  he endured and knocked the fucker out. 



> Zoros Oni Giri was shown to be Equal to luffys Bazooka. Mr.1 can do the same and negate the attack with one of his own. With the added bonus of Luffy hurting himself on his blades.
> 
> If you are saying Luffys bazooka can one shot him I very much doubt it.



One shot no, hurt yes, luffy is obviously going to get a lot of hits on daz bones, And knowing luffy he'll just continuously attack punch through the pain and deck him eventually.  Luffy's ability to withstand pain shouldn't be questioned.  He has shown to take a lot more damage than his opponents and still end up the victor.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Canute87 said:


> Because prior to cutting steel the attacks were virtually useless. Mr 1 was in complete control of that fight.



Again the panels I posted have nothing to do with Mr.1 durability. Zoro tried to block his attack it failed and he got fucked up for it. Of course in hindsight if Zoro fought him again he would probably try and dodge instead but that's neither here nor there. 

Anyway the point of me posting those panels was to show how high Mr.1 attack power is. Of course you can argue Luffy will just dodge it but for how long? 




> Well........



If we are going to try and downplay Mr.1 cause Zoro one shot him then we are going to have to do that with all his opponents is basically my point. 

Or we can just show Zoro the proper respect and accept his attack power is extremely high. Oda doesn't have him one shot almost every opponent he has faced in the entire manga, because he wanted us to think all of Zoros opponents were glass cannons. 






> LUFFY?!  No dude,



Your right, its MONKEY *D* LUFFY we are talking about here. I am being silly. 





> He spun his blade to hit a zoro that was already bleeding while he was at peak strength


, 

True but Zoro was not that hurt at that point and as I said before Mr.1 being injuried is not really gonna affect his attack power by any major amount. 



> A fight with luffy would not realistically bring that dynamic where luffy is bleeding out hell and he's untouched.
> If luffy does manage to ger hit he  would persevere through that just like he did lucci's rokugan, twice in fact,  he endured and knocked the fucker out.
> 
> One shot no, hurt yes, luffy is obviously going to get a lot of hits on daz bones, And knowing luffy he'll just continuously attack punch through the pain and deck him eventually.  Luffy's ability to withstand pain shouldn't be questioned.  He has shown to take a lot more damage than his opponents and still end up the victor.



Is Luffy more of a tank then Zoro? Given the shit he went through vs Katakuri yea probably so. Back in Alabasta though? I highly highly doubt it. Again my point in posting those panels earlier was to show how high Mr.1 attack power is. 

So you say Luffy is gonna muscle through is basically saying Luffy>>Zoro in endurance. Which of course you are free to argue that but that goes into a whole other can of worms which I would rather not go through. 

But my basic premise is Zoro and Luffy are comparable endurance wise. So after 4 or 5 direct hits Mr.1 should logically be close to killing Luffy. So the main question is can Mr.1 get those attacks in before Luffy knocks him the fuck out? 

I'm not saying he can't I personally just lean towards Mr.1.


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## Canute87 (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Again the panels I posted have nothing to do with Mr.1 durability. Zoro tried to block his attack it failed and he got fucked up for it. Of course in hindsight if Zoro fought him again he would probably try and dodge instead but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> Anyway the point of me posting those panels was to show how high Mr.1 attack power is. Of course you can argue Luffy will just dodge it but for how long?



No luffy is going to get hit but with every hit daz bones gets hit too, I'm not going to bet on luffy constantly dodging every single attack he might but that's shitting on daz bones for no reason  what is certain is that his endurance will be the determining factor.

our right, its MONKEY *D* LUFFY we are talking about here. I am being silly. 



,



> True but Zoro was not that hurt at that point and as I said before Mr.1 being injuried is not really gonna affect his attack power by any major amount.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing is we can't ignore how drastically different a fight can be when you consider the dynamic,  if zoro could have hurt daz bones from the start the very flow of the battle would have been drastically different.  Daz bones was in a state of complete superiority to zoro 
Luffy being able to hurt him at the start would have triggered a different flow of battle.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Again I need to stress this *ONE ATTACK FROM MR.1 BROUGHT ZORO TO HIS KNEES. *


Again I need to stress that those will not land on Luffy's chest as he was dodging one-shots from Crocodile!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> That's a terrible idea Luffy would be repeatedly smashing his fists into Mr.1 blades. If Luffy muscles through the attack yea he can beat him with that attack.


This is what he did and as I posted he smashed blades that cut steal ... it is your choice to disregard panels


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Crocs sand is not as durable as Mr.1s body.


I just posted what that attacks does in MF and in Alabasta so that attack can cut Mr1 body soo it is false to say that attack is not inferior to Mr1 durability!


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> True it's not the same, but the point I'm trying to make is that Zoro has the force needed to negate luffys bazooka. Mr.1 overpowered Zoro in a power struggle so he can replicate Zoros feat.
> 
> Of course if Mr.1 eats a Bazooka unguarded it will hurt.


I disagree and I proved my point with the panels.


That would be correct if the Bazooka can't dent steel but as we saw it can and the onigiri can't so not the same.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> And I think you are downplaying the significance of punching a blade.


Mate Luffy was smashing blades with his fists and sand that can cut steel as dense as Mr1 body, why are you trying to make a RL case now?


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Now add on to that Luffys super human speed and strength flying straight into Mr.1s blades. To be honest Mr.1 can just play defense and win that way. He knew Zoro could not hurt him so he made little effort to block or counter his attacks why would he? The moment Luffy hurts Mr.1 he will make a conscious effort to actually block/counter his attacks and put up his guard from luffys attack.
> 
> Also Mr.1 is not a weak snail he outmaneuvered zoro and overpowered him as well. He is not lacking in speed or strength. luffys big attacks take obvious wide motions as he swings his arm far back for a snap back. Which gives Mr.1 plenty of time to put his guard up. A guard that consists of blades that will not only greatly reduce the impact of luffys attacks but fuck his hands up in the process.
> 
> So the arguement of Luffy is just going to lol smash Mr.1 into pieces and dance around all his attacks the entire time is a weak one imo.





You are refuting panels with RL logic LOL!



These refute your claims big time LOL!



Etherborn said:


> I have more confidence in Luffy's endurance than Daz's durability, so Luffy. And that's even assuming he aims his punches at Mr. 1's blades like an idiot. Every blade has an edge and a flat side, and Daz hasn't been shown to turn every part of his body into a blade. His face is fair game, for example. It's still made of steel, but he hasn't shown the ability to sharpen it like his arms, legs, and fingers.






I already proved that but thanks for the support!


Etherborn said:


> So all Luffy really has to do is outmaneuver Daz, which he CAN do since Zoro was nearly blitzing him at the beginning of their fight, and land enough punches to the face, which we know WILL knock Daz out at some point since Luffy could shatter Don Krieg's armor with his fists even back in East Blue. Considering the increase in strength that Luffy showed between East Blue and his fight with Croc, this might even end in a few moves if Luffy decides to set up for a Gomu Gomu no Storm from the start.


Also my argument and all the panels that I provided.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Is Luffy more of a tank then Zoro?


He always was ... did you read all the panels also Zoro is not a tank when taking damage but when he block with his swords!

So your premise is false, Zoro can't never take the same amount of damage he is not rubber so your claims are false.

in TB he never took the same betting that Luffy did, he took what damage Luffy sustained that was minum, one Moria hit and  Zoro is dead!


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Do I need to remind you that Zoro's body is not the same as Luffy's:


He never recovers the same as Luffy.

And he never was a tank at receiving but blocking with his sword!


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## Corax (Mar 23, 2020)

Mr 1 is a very match for Luffy. Though likely Luffy extreme diffs him and nearly dies from blood loss afterwards. I am sure that he will be hit a lot of times and have to hit his spiked body a lot of times also.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Mar 23, 2020)

They're fighting in midst of a bunch of buildings. If Luffy  uses of some of the stone pillars or random steel to pad his attacks he can mitigate much of the damage he'll receive while delivering harder shots that Mr 1 won't be surviving more than a few of. Luffy can likely knock out Mr. 1 without even using those, considering he has better stats and broken through stronger attacks than the ones Mr 1 can deliver.

If Luffy aims at the blunt side of those blades, they will break.
Also like someone pointed out, Mr 1 hasn't show the ability to nor is it practical to turn his eyes into blades.


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## Steven (Mar 23, 2020)

Ah the good old Mr 1 wank

He cant tank a Gom Gom Bazooka


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## Mob (Mar 23, 2020)

Pre timeskip Mr1 is wanked in the same sense as post timeskip Pica is wanked, both of them get low diffed by their captains

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Mob said:


> Pre timeskip Mr1 is wanked in the same sense as *post timeskip Pica is wanked*, both of them get low diffed by their captains



Pica wanked 

The most I've seen Pica "wanked" is some people saying he can beat Vergo. Which I think was a different forum. Hard to say I'm sure someone said it around here at some point though. I personally would not classify that as wank myself but everyone has different standards.


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## Corax (Mar 23, 2020)

Alabasta Croc can't low diff Mr1 with knowledge. Mr1 with 3 barrels of water will harm him at least several times,if not more. This might be an upper mid or even high diff in the end. And this is if Croc can slice DF steel continuously,as aside from it he can't drain moisture from steel and has no options.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The most I've seen Pica "wanked" is some people saying he can beat Vergo.


So you don't know of the Pica that is YC2 logic ... so sad. @Acno

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So you don't know of the Pica that is YC2 logic ... so sad. @Acno



I've never heard of Pica being Jozu level no, and anyone that suggests he is should be considered trolling or is a troll


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I've never heard of Pica being Jozu level no, and anyone that suggests he is should be considered trolling or is a troll


Then you need to check WG for once and see that not many can defeat Golem Pica, some said that BM can't do it because she didn't  show enough AOE


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## Mob (Mar 23, 2020)

yeah BM punches that ragdolled Queen cant hurt golem Pica


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Then you need to check WG for once and see that not many can defeat Golem Pica, some said that BM can't do it because she didn't  show enough AOE



Ok now in all seriousness anyone that said Big mom cant beat pica is trolling you XD


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## Kinjin (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> As it legitly cut steel:


The feat looks more impressive in the manga:



BUT

we don't know if that is indeed steel. That said MF Crocodile's feats don't prove anything in this particular matchup.


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Are you guys serious? Zoro hitting Daz with solid steel did jack to him, he felt it once but not that much. Luffy's fists ain't doing nothing either until he brings on the big moves and by then he's gonna be bleeding out already. It's a bad match-up like Mr3 and Magellan. Doesn't mean Luffy's weak


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## Lawliet (Mar 23, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> 6 years ago. Did your opinion change?
> 
> Back then you were known as Lawliet...


First of all, I asked a name change and I was ignored l 

2nd, nope.  Daz 1 was an issue for Luffy then. 

Luffy might be able to cut steel somehow in the future, but he couldn't back in alabasta.

That leaves two options, 
Luffy somehow throwing Daz 1 in sea and leaving him. 

Luffy smashing steal to bits like he did in Udon. Don't think that would've happened though.


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## Lawliet (Mar 23, 2020)

Damn, New thread. I would've made more effort I thought it was just a recton or whatever you call it


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Are you guys serious? Zoro hitting Daz with solid steel did jack to him,


Solid steel:


Solid Bed Rock Solid Steel:


Also Steel:


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## Lawliet (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So you don't know of the Pica that is YC2 logic ... so sad. @Acno


Buddy. You need to stop taking a couple opinions from around here and make it sound like it's the general thought behind that particular topic.

I've seen a lot of people do that and it pisses me off. It makes the rest of us normal trolls look like bad trolls.

When you debate someome from this section. And you're not sure what they like or dislike. Treat them like you wanna figure out what they think about certain charatcers. Stop throwing in dumb logic like, but some dude said...


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Edward Teach said:


> Buddy. You need to stop taking a couple opinions from around here and make it sound like it's the general thought behind that particular topic.
> 
> I've seen a lot of people do that and it pisses me off. It makes the rest of us normal trolls look like bad trolls.
> 
> When you debate someome from this section. And you're not sure what they like or dislike. Treat them like you wanna figure out what they think about certain charatcers. Stop throwing in dumb logic like, but some dude said...


It is a joke, do you think I validate a Yc2 Pica ...

I made a joke regarding that and yes some had that opinion, trolls or they were believing that I did not care, I was just sharing!


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## Lawliet (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> It is a joke, do you think I validate a Yc2 Pica ...
> 
> I made a joke regarding that and yes some had that opinion, trolls or they were believing that I did not care, I was just sharing!


I'm not saying you think Pica is YC2...

I'm saying this.

If you and I are debating about pica, big mom or whatever and the discussion is going serious , and you throw in

 "I'll have you know, some people think big mom can't beat pica"

To be honest, I won't take our discussion seriously anymore. That's my point


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## Kinjin (Mar 23, 2020)

Edward Teach said:


> First of all, I asked a name change and I was ignored l


Ask again

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lawliet (Mar 23, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> Ask again


Give me the link again I lost it


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## Kinjin (Mar 23, 2020)

Edward Teach said:


> Give me the link again I lost it


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Solid steel:
> 
> 
> Solid Bed Rock Solid Steel:
> ...



Yes I've seen you post those a hundred times, everybody has 

Unless you think Arlong Park Luffy was stronger than Alabasta Zoro then they don't mean anything. Zoro is strong as hell and him hitting Daz did nothing, same thing will happen with Luffy's basic moves, only Luffy will get hurt. Or else Zoro would've bludgeoned him to death with his swords-turned-clubs

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Yes I've seen you post those a hundred times, everybody has
> 
> Unless you think Arlong Park Luffy was stronger than Alabasta Zoro then they don't mean anything. Zoro is strong as hell and him hitting Daz did nothing, same thing will happen with Luffy's basic moves, only Luffy will get hurt. Or else Zoro would've bludgeoned him to death with his swords-turned-clubs


What does Arlongs sword have to do with Zoro being strong?

Yes, him hitting did nothing, does that mean that Luffy hitting him will do nothing, where is the logic, just to tell you Zoro without the BOAT will still do shit as he didn't scratch him with his uber strength!

When did you get the notion that blunt damage =  cutting damage, in fact, for example, a diamond, Zoro will do shit with his sword, Luffy will crack it.

Zoro does not have the same blunt damage, gives him a club and Luffy destroys him...

Just because you don't like the panels, that is not my problem, Luffy has been destroying Metal and a 2 Tones spear and that 3m sword from EB.

Let alone Croco that has feats for slashing that shit on  Alabasta 's Zoro ones :






Gyro said:


> Yes I've seen you post those a hundred times, everybody has


And you are still ignoring them because somehow that makes Zoro weak ...

Again Zoro did zero damage without BOT.

Does that mean that Crocodile can't cut Mr1?
Or Luffy can dent and wound him when he can only make blades in his arms and legs.

So, on one hand, Zoro must be the only one that can damage Mr1 because of PL but when the actual characters that have cutting and crushing feats from other panels can't, no dog that is not hot works.

Sorry, I disagree and you can't counter all those panels with only fellings.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Edward Teach said:


> If you and I are debating about pica, big mom or whatever and the discussion is going serious , and you throw in


I never did that as you can see all my argument are based on panels!


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> What does Arlongs sword have to do with Zoro being strong?
> 
> Yes, him hitting did nothing, does that mean that Luffy hitting him will do nothing, where is the logic, just to tell you Zoro without the BOAT will still do shit as he didn't scratch him with his uber strength!
> 
> ...


 If Zoro can't cut Daz then his sword hits just become hits. And he hit him square in the face with his swords and it did nothing, cutting or not. A blunt sword will still hurt if swung with a lot of strength, and Zoro has a lot of strength yet it did not break through Daz's defence hence my comment about Luffy and Arlong because if Luffy can break steal in East Blue but Zoro can't in Alabasta then it means either Luffy was stronger back then or the scene doesn't mean anything. And I'll obviously go with the latter


You're the one bringing powerlevels here when I specifically said that Daz was just a bad match-up for Luffy ala Mr3 and Magellan. I never said anything about only Zoro being able to hurt Daz either, I even said Luffy would hurt him with his big moves but again you're bringing strawmen 

And for the record yes I absolutely don't believe Croc would cut Daz with his sand balades


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## Beast (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> If Zoro can't cut Daz then his sword hits just become hits. And he hit him square in the face with his swords and it did nothing, cutting or not. A blunt sword will still hurt if swung with a lot of strength, and Zoro has a lot of strength yet it did not break through Daz's defence hence my comment about Luffy and Arlong because if Luffy can break steal in East Blue but Zoro can't in Alabasta then it means either Luffy was stronger back then or the scene doesn't mean anything. And I'll obviously go with the latter
> 
> 
> You're the one bringing powerlevels here when I specifically said that Daz was just a bad match-up for Luffy ala Mr3 and Magellan. I never said anything about only Zoro being able to hurt Daz either, I even said Luffy would hurt him with his big moves but again you're bringing strawmen
> ...


That is very bad analogy. 
So, because Zoro couldn’t hurt him,
Luffy can’t?

Why is no one bring up that Zoro beat him and so luffy should to? 

This is pathetic. 

Luffy doesn’t need to cut Daz body to cause damage, who told these people that?


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## HaxHax (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> That is very bad analogy.
> So, because Zoro couldn’t hurt him,
> Luffy can’t?
> 
> ...



Haven't you heard, swords are better than blunt force against armored opponents now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> That is very bad analogy.
> So, because Zoro couldn’t hurt him,
> Luffy can’t?
> 
> ...


I am amazed!


Gyro said:


> You're the one bringing powerlevels here when I specifically said that Daz was just a bad match-up for Luffy ala Mr3 and Magellan.


No, I brought panels a lot of them where Luffy with blunt force crushed metals and solid bed rock, proving that you are overestimating what Zoro can do with blunt damage and you have no panel to prove that!



Gyro said:


> Luffy ala Mr3 and Magellan.


That is a fallacy, you just said that Glass can block acid nothing remotely the same as blunt damage vs cutting damage.


Gyro said:


> And for the record yes I absolutely don't believe Croc would cut Daz with his sand balades


And for the record that means Crocodile can't defeat Mr 1. thanks for proving my point and no that is false as he cut building and in MF he cut steal ticker than Mr1 but do consider that Mr1 is untouchable vs Mr0.


HaxHax said:


> Haven't you heard, swords are better than blunt force against armored opponents now.


Yes this is why in RL they all shatter


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> That is very bad analogy.
> So, because Zoro couldn’t hurt him,
> Luffy can’t?
> 
> ...



Zoro has always been presented as a powerhouse, a couple of times he even fought without blades and still proved his strength. If he can't hurt Daz while hitting him real hard with his steel bars I don't see Luffy doing it with his basic punches either but like Ren you apparently chose to disregard the fact that I said multiple times that Luffy could in fact hurt him with his top moves but that it'd be too late

As for the Zoro beat him so Luffy should too thing, that's powerlevel talk disregarding the fact that I mentioned twice the bad match up because that doesn't suit the narrative that all people who think Daz beats Luffy are Zoro wankers I guess



HaxHax said:


> Haven't you heard, swords are better than blunt force against armored opponents now.



*SWORDS ARE BLUNT FORCE IF THEY DON'T CUT 
*
There, should be clear enough

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Zoro has always been presented as a powerhouse, a couple of times he even fought without blades and still proved his strength.



Yes like when he was in a chimney and when he was in a cage, wait he could not break out ..


Gyro said:


> If he can't hurt Daz while hitting him real hard with his steel bars I don't see Luffy doing it with his basic punches either but like


Mate, you are saying that Luffy blunt force is the same as Zoro's blunt force, sorry you are saying now that a bare handed martial arts master has the same striking force vs a swords master without a sword, did you read what you wrote?



Gyro said:


> SWORDS ARE BLUNT FORCE IF THEY DON'T CUT


Who told you this?
I really want to smack him in the face for that.

The surface of a sword is shit, it has the impact of straw in that context!
Now take a mace to the face and tell me that they have remotely the same context!


Gyro said:


> SWORDS ARE BLUNT FORCE IF THEY DON'T CUT


NO, THEY ARE NOT, DON'T SPRED FALSE THINGS IN HERE!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Mar 23, 2020)

Luffy man ... his fist can break him ... he just ignore the pain and keep doing that until he win


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> The feat looks more impressive in the manga:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Btw thanks for the panel I knew that but I had the scene with the head of ace to compare to the steel plate!

Also, you guys are cracking me: feats from MF do not count, Arlong swords that are 3m long and probably 200kg do not count, Krieg's 2Tones spear does not count.

Solid bedrock that sustained a town does not count.

But when I said that G3 > Assura because it dented a warship frame that has steel because Iron will rot or that it destroyed a  buncar steel door with crossbars vs Asura dispersing a slash attack that cut a circular section of a concrete tower with maybe some small iron foundations ... yeah that was a better feat Assura is stronger


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes like when he was in a chimney and when he was in a cage, wait he could not break out ..
> 
> Mate, you are saying that Luffy blunt force is the same as Zoro's blunt force, sorry you are saying now that a bare handed martial arts master has the same striking force vs a swords master without a sword, did you read what you wrote?
> 
> ...



Yeah and let's talk about all those times Luffy got tied with rope and couldn't break free.

I'm not saying it's the same and I'm not talking about swordless Zoro here I'm talking about Zoro hitting with his swords but again you're disregarding the fact that I outright said Luffy could hurt him with his top moves anyway for the fourth post in a row and it's getting tiring


Why compare it with a mace? Of course if I get hit by a car my chances of survival are better than if I got hit by a truck, I still got hit by a car though


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Yeah and let's talk about all those times Luffy got tied with rope and couldn't break free.



vs Zoro:


This is Luffy after surgery after getting out of ID and MF and getting fisted by Akainu:







Let's talk about them, he had better raw feats.


Gyro said:


> Why compare it with a mace? Of course if I get hit by a car my chances of survival are better than if I got hit by a truck, I still got hit by a car though


Because let's recall what Luffy's attacks are: ax for example ...


Again  a blunt sword will never be even 1% of a blunt mace in blunt damage and that is what Luffy is:


So then why are you implying that a car that is Zoro's sword is the same as a truck that is this:


Or you believe that Zoro with blunt steel bars can replicate this?

And a car what not enough to scratch Mr1 but it is false to presume a truck can not do enough damage.


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## Beast (Mar 23, 2020)

Luffy is way faster then him, how is Daz going to land a hit on him? 

Luffy just stretch out him arm and leave it there for Daz to cut? 

 

Daz is not a bad match up for Luffy any more then he was for Zoro, why do people not listen? 

Luffy has CP9 level reaction in east blue, and strength to crush Daz skull with just a grip. 

Stop this ridiculous Bs of Luffy is a bad match up, Zoro was a bad match up. 

Luffy can actually hurt him from the get go, so why are we going in circles?

Most of these points are moot.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kinjin (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Who told you this?
> I really want to smack him in the face for that.


@T.D.A


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## Beast (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Yeah and let's talk about all those times Luffy got tied with rope and couldn't break free.
> 
> I'm not saying it's the same and I'm not talking about swordless Zoro here I'm talking about Zoro hitting with his swords but again you're disregarding the fact that I outright said Luffy could hurt him with his top moves anyway for the fourth post in a row and it's getting tiring
> 
> ...


Learn about how surface area works with attacks, then you will know the difference between a blunt damage and slicing damage... 

Who the actual fuck thinks swords could do blunt damage?

Where did you get that kind of logic from?


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> vs Zoro:
> 
> 
> This is Luffy after surgery after getting out of ID and MF and getting fisted by Akainu:
> ...


Yeah let's cherrypick what panels we want to show. I could find one of Luffy stuck in ropes and Zoro lifting heavy things in less than five minutes but that's not interesting in the slightest

5th time in a row you imply I said Luffy couldn't hurt Daz when I insisted everytime that I in fact think he could with his best moves so I'm gonna stop there, there's no point in arguing that way


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Yeah let's cherrypick what panels we want to show. I could find one of Luffy stuck in ropes and Zoro lifting heavy things in less than five minutes but that's not interesting in the slightest


I chose the panels when both were stuck in the same arc, by the same person Lucci at the same time frame.

I am cherry-picking.

I can show you many more panels where Zoro never lifted or did more blunt damage that Luffy but that is basic knowledge.


MasterBeast said:


> Who the actual fuck thinks swords could do blunt damage?
> 
> Where did you get that kind of logic from?





Kinjin said:


> @T.D.A


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Learn about how surface area works with attacks, then you will know the difference between a blunt damage and slicing damage...
> 
> Who the actual fuck thinks swords could do blunt damage?
> 
> Where did you get that kind of logic from?



Hit yourself in the face real hard with the back end of a mall katana and tell me your nose isn't broken. Just because it isn't sharp doesn't magically make it harmless, it's still a heavy slab of metal and getting hit with hit will do damage.


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## Beast (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Hit yourself in the face real hard with the back end of a mall katana and tell me your nose isn't broken. Just because it isn't sharp doesn't magically make it harmless, it's still a heavy slab of metal and getting hit with hit will do damage.


Delete your account bruh. 
Burn the computer or laptop or device you used to type out this nonsense.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Hit yourself in the face real hard with the back end of a mall katana and tell me your nose isn't broken. Just because it isn't sharp doesn't magically make it harmless, it's still a heavy slab of metal and getting hit with hit will do damage.


And you guys call yourself Swordmasters fans :

 I said that I know more than a lot of Z fans about swords and I mean a lot more.

I should bring my ultra grade sword from Darks Souls to prove my point and that has stomping attacks.
The FUME IS a blunt damage sword:


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Delete your account bruh.
> Burn the computer or laptop or device you used to type out this nonsense.



Ad hominem now? 

Nice one. No argument whatsoever either. Still a pleasure to come to the battledome


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> No argument whatsoever either





MasterBeast said:


> Learn about how surface area works with attacks, then you will know the difference between a blunt damage and slicing damage...


He gave you those posts ago and you did not refute that.

We are talking about Katanas, blunt ones as you said not ultra grade swords


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## zoro (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> And you guys call yourself Swordmasters fans :
> 
> I said that I know more than a lot of Z fans about swords and I mean a lot more.



I'm not a Zoro fan though, never said I was and actually bitched about him at length many times


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> I'm not a Zoro fan though, never said I was and actually bitched about him at length many times


Ok fair enough, why do you want to prove that a Katana's blunt damage is even relevant!

Katana's number one quality is sharpness if it loses that, it is very pointless as a weapon!

My bad you can believe what you want but  I think I showed you a lot of materials to understand that a blunt katana that is what Zoro's swords were are not a good source for blunt damage.

And he needed a way cough ass pull to bypass the DF and resistance to defeat Mr1... I call that a form of haki aka that is me hating Zoro @T.D.A  just saying.


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## T.D.A (Mar 23, 2020)

Kinjin said:


> @T.D.A



In a debate @Gyro can no diff these dudes easily, @MasterBeast and @Ren. should know their ranking


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

T.D.A said:


> In a debate @Gyro can no diff these dudes easily, @MasterBeast and @Ren. should know their ranking


 I know that Ren.  is a  sure victim but what is your point?


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## T.D.A (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I know that @Ren.  is a victim but what is your point?



Gyro is a bad match up for you since he's not a Zoro tard lol


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## HaxHax (Mar 23, 2020)

Gyro said:


> Zoro has always been presented as a powerhouse, a couple of times he even fought without blades and still proved his strength. If he can't hurt Daz while hitting him real hard with his steel bars I don't see Luffy doing it with his basic punches either but like Ren you apparently chose to disregard the fact that I said multiple times that Luffy could in fact hurt him with his top moves but that it'd be too late
> 
> As for the Zoro beat him so Luffy should too thing, that's powerlevel talk disregarding the fact that I mentioned twice the bad match up because that doesn't suit the narrative that all people who think Daz beats Luffy are Zoro wankers I guess
> 
> ...



Luffy's punches hit much much harder than Zoro's swords.

Should be clear enough.

Did you forget that bentham sent Daz flying through a wall? How about Sanji being able to break through Jyabura's tekkai much easier than Zoro against Kaku?

The power difference is obvious.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Luffy is way faster then him, how is Daz going to land a hit on him?
> 
> Luffy just stretch out him arm and leave it there for Daz to cut?
> 
> ...



He kept up pretty fine with Zoro who at that time ws about equal to Luffy. He tagged Zoro just fine excluding a few exceptions of oni giri and crab-tiger combo which did nothing to Mr.1. When thinking about it he doesn't need to tag him despite him showing the ability to tag a fighter who has similiar stats to Luffy at that time since he will be attacked by Luffy and damage him that way.

Luffy's feats include damaging human flesh behind a gold armor/mantle (Don Krieg), he haven't shown the ability to overcome the living durability of new created steel. You gotta bring some serious arguments for Luffy here. Sure his high end moves been shown to damage objects that were made of hard materials, yet none are really in the same bracket as Daz Bones DF. There were only 2 people shown to be able to hurt Mr.1 in the manga and surprisingly both were swordsmen with BoaT.



MasterBeast said:


> Learn about how surface area works with attacks, then you will know the difference between a blunt damage and slicing damage...
> 
> Who the actual fuck thinks swords could do blunt damage?
> 
> Where did you get that kind of logic from?



Zoro been shown to use the blunt side of his swords to knock out enemies, so if he can't cut he still applies his physical force through the weapon. After all swords are just the extension of his limbs and he just couldn't cut with them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Etherborn (Mar 23, 2020)

@Ren. If you could place your manga scans in spoiler tags when you're posting many images, it would be appreciated. Just so it's easier to scroll through, especially for people on mobile. Thanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So you don't know of the Pica that is YC2 logic ... so sad. @Acno


Thats one of nik´s stupid claims

His worst claim is that King is a threat to EoS Ruffy

OT: Ruffy wins here


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## Luis209 (Mar 23, 2020)

Luffy showed the ability to break through steel, so he's able to win this. It's not going to be easy as it wasn't easy for Zoro. However, Luffy takes this high-extreme difficulty.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> so if he can't cut he still applies his physical force through the weapon.


That is not how physics works ...
And you know that dog.


TheWiggian said:


> Zoro been shown to use the blunt side of his swords to knock out enemies,


Like whom?
And I don't mean weaklings ...


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## xenos5 (Mar 23, 2020)

Luffy isn’t limited to punching. Can’t he just either grab a part of Daz that isn’t covered with a blade or grab the side of a blade and slam him into the surroundings? Go all “puny god” on his ass.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 23, 2020)

Should be worth mentioning that Steel is actually easier to cut then to break with blunt force. Diamonds for example are the opposite of that they are hard to cut but easy to smash. 

The fact that Zoro couldn't scratch Mr.1 with a combo of his strongest attacks should tell you something about his defense.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Should be worth mentioning that Steel is actually easier to cut then to break with blunt force. Diamonds for example are the opposite of that they are hard to cut but easy to smash.
> 
> The fact that Zoro couldn't scratch Mr.1 with a combo of his strongest attacks should tell you something about his defense.


Easier to cut with a sword, not really.

Easier to cut with a grinder yes.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is not how physics works ...
> And you know that dog.



If an insult is your best argument i won't even bother responding 



Ren. said:


> Like whom?
> And I don't mean weaklings ...



No one noteworthy but it basically refutes the point of swords not having blunt damage and alligns perfectly with Oda not giving a fuck about your physics

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> If an insult is your best argument i won't even bother responding


Dog is not an insult LOL!


TheWiggian said:


> Oda not giving a fuck about your physics


So Luffy can fuck steel as he did with many cases and the boys that are trying to tell me how harder is to smash steel are doing a  pointless job, I am just putting scans that prove he can!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Dog is not an insult LOL!
> 
> So Luffy can fuck steel as he did and the boys that are trying to tell me how harder is to smash steel are doing  pointless job, I am just putting scans that prove he can!



Yea he could break Arlongs sword but regressed to destroying rocks once he acquired gears and all that haki shit as shown perfectly with your scans. You're sure he is improving?


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea he could break Arlongs sword but regressed to destroying rocks


Sword are fine but can be broken easily I can show you if you want, he destroys a town level bedrock that is not remotely the same level as a 3m sword even if it steel and that is not soft rock as it is the one that sustains builds and was build centuries ago.


TheWiggian said:


> You're sure he is improving?


You think I am a kid, I know my resistance depending on density and volume.

If not, Zoro regressed from Mr1 to Pica  Steel to some rubble!


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## Beast (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> He kept up pretty fine with Zoro who at that time ws about equal to Luffy. He tagged Zoro just fine excluding a few exceptions of oni giri and crab-tiger combo which did nothing to Mr.1. When thinking about it he doesn't need to tag him despite him showing the ability to tag a fighter who has similiar stats to Luffy at that time since he will be attacked by Luffy and damage him that way.
> 
> Luffy's feats include damaging human flesh behind a gold armor/mantle (Don Krieg), he haven't shown the ability to overcome the living durability of new created steel. You gotta bring some serious arguments for Luffy here. Sure his high end moves been shown to damage objects that were made of hard materials, yet none are really in the same bracket as Daz Bones DF. There were only 2 people shown to be able to hurt Mr.1 in the manga and surprisingly both were swordsmen with BoaT.
> 
> ...


Hahaha, no... Zoro isn’t equally as fast, as strong or as durable as Luffy, that is your opinion. Zoro was above Daz anyway, it’s only because he couldn’t hurt him that things turned around... Liffy will not have this problem. 
Daz has not shown anything close to the physical stats of luffy during that time, stop playing around... he was getting flunk around By Bon- chan with a kick, he is not on the same physical stats as luffy nor wven Zoro seeing how he was 1HKO’d as soon as Zoro went past his durability. 

Luffy has broken metal as easily as he has broken bones, stop it bro. Luffy is not having hard time cracking Daz armour, so what if he gets a little cut in the process... that’s never stopped luffy before. Luffy has broken apart More dense defence and bedrock 3x as hard as Daz, get out of here with that shit. The bed rock luffy broke as he punched Croc upwards is far above any kinda steel that is about the size of a human. Luffy can and will bring through Daz, stop. 

Do we really need to get into how blunt damage works against steel armour? 
And how iron metal vs steel armour would work? 

Swords are not causing blunt damage, I don’t know who told you this or where your train of thought came from but they are not one and the same... very far from it. Zoro couldn’t cause damage because his swords are a weaker material then steel, only once having figured out how to get past it did he cause damage, before he did no damage because Daz body>> Zoros swords. 

Now, I know what you’re gonna do but I’ll wait for you to do it.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Sword are fine but can be broken easily I can show you if you want, he destroys a town level bedrock that is not remotely the same level as a 3m sword even if it steel and that is not soft rock as it is the one that sustains builds and was build centuries ago.
> 
> You think I am a kid, I know my resistance depending on density and volume.
> 
> If not, Zoro regressed from Mr1 to Pica  Steel to some rubble!



Oh well if you're not a kid then you might just accept alrdy calculated results:

Luffy:

*Destructive Capacity:* Large Building level (leveled AP) | Small town level (overpowered Crocodile's Desert Spada with a punch

*Lifting Strength:* Class K (tossed a sea monster over 50m in length a considerable distance with relative ease) | Class M+

*Striking Strength:* Class GJ (capable of collapsing large buildings) | Class TJ (capable of punching through huge layers of bedrock)

*Speed:* Supersonic+ (casually deflected cannonballs) | Hypersonic (faster than Yama)

*Durability:* Large Building level | Small town level (tanked a Desert Spada from Crocodile and a Burn Bazooka from Wiper)

Zoro:

*Destructive Capacity:* Large Building level
*Lifting Strength:* Class K | Class M+ (able to toss a building whilst heavily injured)

*Striking Strength:* Class MJ+ (more or less equal to Luffy) | Class TJ (stronger than Daz Bones who can hack buildings to pieces)

*Speed:* Supersonic (can keep up with Luffy and Arlong) | Hypersonic+ (faster than Yama)

*Durability:* Large Building level | Small town level (withstood several attacks from Daz Bones and attacks from Enel)

Since you're obsessed with physics and calculations. Those were calculated up to Alabasta some parts have little features of skypia but as a blind man with a stick can see, Zoro's portrayal is in no way inferior to Luffy at that time. You guys should stop applying the post ts mindset to pre ts, we alrdy have enough Luffy time in the current manga timeline, would be nice to see something from the other strawhats.

That said there's nothing left to discuss here, they're both in the same ballpark although if Luffy defeats Daz Bones it won't be any less than high diff considering he doesn't bleed out before that happens as he passed out from blood loss and fatigue before finishing Crocodile.



MasterBeast said:


> Hahaha, no... Zoro isn’t equally as fast, as strong or as durable as Luffy, that is your opinion. Zoro was above Daz anyway, it’s only because he couldn’t hurt him that things turned around... Liffy will not have this problem.
> Daz has not shown anything close to the physical stats of luffy during that time, stop playing around... he was getting flunk around By Bon- chan with a kick, he is not on the same physical stats as luffy nor wven Zoro seeing how he was 1HKO’d as soon as Zoro went past his durability.
> 
> Luffy has broken metal as easily as he has broken bones, stop it bro. Luffy is not having hard time cracking Daz armour, so what if he gets a little cut in the process... that’s never stopped luffy before. Luffy has broken apart More dense defence and bedrock 3x as hard as Daz, get out of here with that shit. The bed rock luffy broke as he punched Croc upwards is far above any kinda steel that is about the size of a human. Luffy can and will bring through Daz, stop.
> ...



Read the comparison above. But nice try to force your headcanon into the story.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> *Destructive Capacity:* Large Building level



Show me Zoro's feat equal to this:


NO Sky island only Alabasta and no scally from WP duel, pure Panels.



TheWiggian said:


> Those were calculated up to Alabasta some parts have little features of skypia but as a blind man with a stick can see, Zoro's portrayal is in no way inferior to Luffy at that time.


Again I want to see the panels from where those were calced.



TheWiggian said:


> although if Luffy defeats Daz Bones it won't be any less than high diff considering he doesn't bleed out before that happens as he passed out from blood loss and fatigue before finishing Crocodile.


I never said he would be defeating him easy and he did not die vs Crocodile that made a hole in him so that is not happening.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Show me Zoro's feat equal to this:
> 
> 
> NO Sky island only Alabasta and no scally from WP duel, pure Panels.



Still in denial i see

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Still in denial i see


Yeah I don't just read the statement with no quotation behind it when investing why should I do it here 

Also, I agreed with you at the end so you can have that!

I will ignore that this has Skypea where Zoro learned to put slashes forward and you guys did not let me use MF Croco's feats because somehow he got stronger in prison.

And Luffy in Skypea had Enel that was weak to rubber so he didn't need more power but a way to defeat his COO.

But hey I will say that I did not see that so my panel still stands, Zoro has no  move that was close to this one in ALABASTA.


I will ignore that move from you


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Oh well if you're not a kid then you might just accept alrdy calculated results:
> 
> Luffy:
> 
> ...





TheWiggian said:


> Zoro's portrayal is in no way inferior to Luffy at that time





TheWiggian said:


> Luffy:
> 
> *Destructive Capacity:* Large Building level (leveled AP) | Small town level (overpowered Crocodile's Desert Spada with a punch
> 
> ...





This is your mind on Z.O.R.O. guys. You rebut your own argument you're about to make before you even make it.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> This is your mind on Z.O.R.O. guys. You rebut your own argument you're about to make before you even make it.



*Destructive Capacity:*  level | Small town level (shouldn't be far off  in the strength department even at Skypiea)

Didn't copy this part because i saw Skypia but cool that you help Zoro out here. Very friendly.

Got anything else to add instead of looking for minor mistakes? Or do you simply want to derail the thread?


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> *Destructive Capacity:*  level | Small town level (shouldn't be far off  in the strength department even at Skypiea)
> 
> Didn't copy this part because i saw Skypia but cool that you help Zoro out here. Very friendly.
> 
> Got anything else to add instead of looking for minor mistakes? Or do you simply want to derail the thread?


Minor mistake?

Also, what's your source on these "calculations"? Cmon, I want to have a good laugh at what's your most trustworthy source that you've been quoting like gospel.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> Minor mistake?
> 
> Also, what's your source on these "official calculations"? Cmon, I want to have a good laugh at what's your most trustworthy source that you've been quoting like gospel.



Gospel? Everyone should know the OBD at this point, since @Ren. likes calculations i posted them, if you can't follow the conversation don't interfere.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Mar 23, 2020)

Luffy is too fast for Daz to just turn any spot he punches into a knife.

Luffy can rend steel based on his fight with Krieg, sure Daz is probably significantly tougher but it's not the same kind of roadblock it was for Zoro before his epiphany.


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Gospel? Everyone should know the OBD at this point, since @Ren. likes calculations i posted them, if you can't follow the conversation don't interfere.


Lool.

Even if we go with OBD, your best case scenario is Skypiea Zoro possibly scaling to where Luffy was during Alabasta.


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> Lool.
> 
> Even if we go with OBD, your best case scenario is Skypiea Zoro possibly scaling to where Luffy was during Alabasta.


Stop it you guys we already established that those are Sky Island Feats because in Alabasta Zoro did not have those.

Meaning that is invalid to this Alabasta post, if we don't agree on that then we use next arc EL and Luffy one-shots MR1 with a g2!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 23, 2020)

shouldn't be far off  in the strength department *even at Skypiea*

I wonder why its worded this way lol


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## Ren. (Mar 23, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> shouldn't be far off  in the strength department *even at Skypiea*
> 
> I wonder why its worded this way lol


I explained to you there is one in Alabasta and there is no upgrade to Luffy because Enel had already an OP DF!

So redundant and as I said Gomu Gomu no Storm is several levels above what Zoro in Alabasta can do!


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## Zoro20 (Mar 23, 2020)

why there is the discussion about strength between luffy and zoro


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## trance (Mar 24, 2020)

daz obviously has the capability to deal damage but luffy isnt losing here


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## Sherlōck (Mar 24, 2020)

*Speed* 

Luffy is faster and more versatile. I know that Luffy will get hit like Zoro did but Luffy will hit Daz more than vice versa.

*Strength*

Luffy is physically stronger than Daz and Zoro. Factor the rubber elasticity and his AP becomes much stronger. Unlike Zoro's his punch will hurt Daz significantly.

*Endurance*

Luffy's endurance is higher. 

*Steel Vs Rubber*

Luffy has long list feat of breaking steel. He broke Kreig's armor, Arlong's Kodachi. He also destroyed Crocodile's steel like attack which has higher attack power than any of Daz's attack.

Luffy wins high difficulty.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> *Speed*
> 
> Luffy is faster and more versatile. I know that Luffy will get hit like Zoro did but Luffy will hit Daz more than vice versa.
> 
> ...





TheWiggian said:


> shouldn't be far off  in the strength department *even at Skypiea*
> 
> I wonder why its worded this way lol


I might not agree with @Sherlōck on many things but his calcs are good!



Sherlōck said:


> Luffy has long list feat of breaking steel. He broke Kreig's armor, Arlong's Kodachi. He also destroyed Crocodile's steel like attack which has higher attack power than any of Daz's attack.


I don't know why are so many ignoring this  as I provided like so many panels for this!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I might not agree with @Sherlōck on many things but his calcs are good!
> 
> 
> I don't know why are so many ignoring this  as I provided like so many panels for this!



I stopped reading when he claimed Crocodile's steel like attack being above a literal blademan in power.

Also he is a proven swordsman hater.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> I stopped reading when he claimed Crocodile's steel like attack being above a literal blademan in power.


I am not talking about his opinions but about his calcs  


TheWiggian said:


> I stopped reading when he claimed Crocodile's steel like attack being above a literal blademan in power.


Mr1 is below Crocodile in cutting LOL!

Do you want to spam again the panels?

This is more than Mr1 ever cut!




TheWiggian said:


> Also he is a proven swordsman hater.



Let me say this softly ...


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I am not talking about his opinions but about his calcs



I copied them from the OBD. He only posted his personal opinion which idc about. Also it's hard to believe his version when literally shortly before that we have a direct power comparison between Luffy and Zoro in a fight where both are serious and want to see who is stronger.



Ren. said:


> Mr1 is below Crocodile in cutting LOL!
> 
> Do you want to spam again the panels?
> 
> ...



That's a marineford feat. Why don't you compare it to Mr. 1 slicing a whole building which is superior to Crocs feat at MF.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> That's a marineford feat. Why don't you compare it to Mr. 1 slicing a whole building which is superior to Crocs feat at MF.


A building is not superior to steel that is thicker than MR1, even if it was another metal that was a ranged attack from afar, MR1 can't even do that!



And no cutting a building is not better than this:

*Spoiler*: __ 











TheWiggian said:


> I copied them from the OBD. He only posted his personal opinion which idc about. Also it's hard to believe his version when literally shortly before that we have a direct power comparison between Luffy and Zoro in a fight where both are serious and want to see who is stronger.


Yes and the did not finish and that is at the start of an arc.
Alabasta is at the end.

It is similar to any arc where at the end they are stronger.

And defeating Crocodile is more than MR1.

You put out Skypeea were Zoro had better feats and did new things.
Luffy vs Enel never was about more but about how to counter mantra!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> A build is not superior to steel that is thicker than MR1:



It's not even thicker than Ace's head 
Mr.1 is like twice the size of Ace's whole body and the buildings mass shits on those 20 cms of iron.



Ren. said:


> Yes and the did not finish and that is at the start of an arc.
> Alabasta is at the end.
> 
> It is similar to any arc an end they are stronger.
> ...



*Destructive Capacity:*  level | Small town level (shouldn't be far off  in the strength department even at Skypiea)

The wording is on even at Skypia meaning Luffy was not even much ahead during the time it happened which was right after Alabasta.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> *Destructive Capacity:*  level | Small town level (shouldn't be far off  in the strength department even at Skypiea)


Again Skypiea.

If you disagree then you can show me Zoro having this level of AP in Alabasta:


Skypiea sure ... 


TheWiggian said:


> It's not even thicker than Ace's head
> Mr.1 is like twice the size of Ace's whole body and the buildings mass shits on those 20 cms of iron.


YOu don't understand the reduction of energy when it travels, ask Zoro vs Pica if you don't understand 

Also Iron  sure still better than any range slash from Zoro or Mr1 in Alabasta ups they have none


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## Beast (Mar 24, 2020)

OBD calcs in an inverse battle 

Talk about desperation  


Luffy is physically stronger, faster and more durable then Daz and Zoro, we know that for a fact, I wouldn’t need someone from the obd or calcs to tell me otherwise, they are not feats but calcs produced by nerds to help make battles through verses more understandable, Daz and Zoro are not as fast, as strong, as durable or even have the same endurance nor reflexes as luffy. 

There is no way, anyone is taking this shit seriously and using it as word of god. 

Everything there is mostly just hype calcs for stats, prove them with feats or get out of here with that shit, this isn’t OBD for us to be looking at calcs wtf.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> OBD calcs in an inverse battle
> 
> Talk about desperation




I am not even mad @Sherlōck is one of the ones that do calc there, this is what I have been saying to @TheWiggian

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Again Skypiea.
> 
> If you disagree then you can show me Zoro having this level of AP in Alabasta:
> 
> ...



Are you illiterate?



Ren. said:


> YOu don't understand the reduction of energy when it travels, ask Zoro vs Pica if you don't understand
> 
> Also Iron  sure still better than any range slash from Zoro or Mr1 in Alabasta ups they have none



That's funny because Zoro on Skypia alrdy outperformed Croc's MF feat lol


*Spoiler*: __ 




*Link Removed*

*Link Removed*






So Croc just catched up at MF damn, that's like 3-4 arcs later.


Anyway i see that after the Calc argument is exhausted you seem to resort "show me Zoro doing this in Alabasta panel" which is fine by me because Luffy haven't shown anything in Alabasta to defeat Daz Bones. He can't bypass his mass of durability and will lose concious from blood loss.



MasterBeast said:


> OBD calcs in an inverse battle
> 
> Talk about desperation
> 
> ...



Alabasta Luffy more durable than Daz Bones? Are you for real? And you talk about in-universe perception? Zoro easily cut up Luffy in their battle yet couldn't even scratch Daz, you're pushing the hate here man. I could agree on the other things which still are not on a whole other level.

If you don't care about the calcs why do you even respond then?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Are you illiterate?


No, I am doing work and I have 4 screens on so yeah!

Also, those are words and cheap ones!


TheWiggian said:


> hat's funny because Zoro on Skypia alrdy outperformed Croc's MF feat lol





Ren. said:


> han any range slash from Zoro or Mr1 *in Alabasta*





TheWiggian said:


> which is fine by me because Luffy haven't shown anything in Alabasta to defeat Daz Bones. He can't bypass his mass of durability and will lose concious from blood loss.


I showed you many feats destroying metal so yeah I am getting bored!
@MasterBeast  is right I am getting bored by the fact that I showed more then enough ...


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> No, I am doing work and I have 4 screens on so yeah!
> 
> Also, those are words and cheap ones!
> 
> ...



Which again is a marineford Croc feat that he doesn't have in Alabasta, which doesn't have anything to do with this match-up anyway  but haters gonna hate anyway so yea Luffy loses since he didn't have the feats to suggest can bypass Mister Ones durability.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Which again is a marineford Croc feat that he doesn't have in Alabasta


Your feats are Skypiea Zoro so yeah!

And Zoro got stronger ... Croco was in ID 


TheWiggian said:


> e didn't have the feats to suggest can bypass Mister Ones durability.


Yeah he did, been busting steel from Arlong but hey.


TheWiggian said:


> but haters gonna hate anyway so yea


We are haters ... mkay


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Your feats are Skypiea Zoro so yeah!
> 
> And Zoro got stronger ... Croco was in ID



Hmm Croc only catched up to Skypia Zoro when he was in MF, well good argument for him to be above Croc in Alabasta alrdy. Thanks.



Ren. said:


> Yeah he did, been busting steel from Arlong but hey.



Yea cuz a few cms of iron is equal to Daz Bones body  so much for your physics



Ren. said:


> We are haters ... mkay



You are.

Still have no evidence of Luffy breaking through Daz.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Hmm Croc only catched up to Skypia Zoro when he was in MF, well good argument for him to be above Croc in Alabasta alrdy. Thanks.


Not the point ...


TheWiggian said:


> Yea cuz a few cms of iron is equal to Daz Bones body  so much for your physics


Those are not  a few and was range, Zoro could not even scrath Daz bones and that is denser than his body + wen further and hit 2 guys, that from a distance.


TheWiggian said:


> You are.


Shit I now hate Luffy


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Not the point ...
> 
> Those are not  a few and was range, Zoro could not even scrath Daz bones and that is denser than his body + wen further and hit 2 guys, that from a distance.
> 
> Shit I now hate Luffy



Still looking for the panels of Luffy breaking through that mass of durability from Daz 

Can it be that Luffy loses to him due to match-up


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Still looking for the panels of Luffy breaking through that mass of durability from Daz
> 
> Can it be that Luffy loses to him due to match-up


You are similar to me LOL 

If you arrive to this point then I have won.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 24, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except for the last panel none of these can be transferred to Mr. 1 because Mr is:

Physically stronger, faster, his body's steel is far more mass, can't be removed, is more lethal, covers the whole body and he can actually fight back with his whole body unlike most of Don Krieg's protective armor and weapons which is more restricted in different ways. That said I do think Luffy can take it with very high diff after seeing that Crocodile panel again.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 24, 2020)

Daz's best feat in Alabasta was slicling through concrete. That's an impressive feat. But ultimately a building level feat .  

It is not impressive than Crocodile's casual desert spada which was calced at MCB level. Crocodile's last attack against Luffy was an even powerful version of that which Luffy broke through easily.

So, yes Luffy's attack is stronger. 

Also don't quote OBD wiki to us @TheWiggian. It’s not the holy bible or that we follow it to extensively. It's more like a beginner's guide that is outdated.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Daz's best feat in Alabasta was slicling through concrete. That's an impressive feat. But ultimately a building level feat .
> 
> It is not impressive than Crocodile's casual desert spada which was calced at MCB level. Crocodile's last attack against Luffy was an even powerful version of that which Luffy broke through easily.
> 
> ...


I told him but he wanted to flex on me because I like calcs.

But Mr1 and Zoro pale AP wise vs the final moves of Croco and Luffy!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Daz's best feat in Alabasta was slicling through concrete. That's an impressive feat. But ultimately a building level feat .
> 
> It is not impressive than Crocodile's casual desert spada which was calced at MCB level. Crocodile's last attack against Luffy was an even powerful version of that which Luffy broke through easily.
> 
> ...



I linked the obd calcs into the convo since it came down to physics arguments, which again shows Luffy and Zoro nearly equal. Whatever difference you mentioned above is not included in their feats on that site. Unless there is an updated version?


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Except for the last panel none of these can be transferred to Mr. 1 because Mr is:


Yes, they do, as all of those are regarding steel!
And we are transforming and extrapolating from other feats!


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Physically stronger, faster, his body's steel is far more mass, can't be removed, is more lethal, covers the whole body and he can actually fight back with his whole body unlike most of Don Krieg's protective armor and weapons which is more restricted in different ways.



That is not the point at all.

Luffy is way stronger than Mr or even Crocodile, way faster, he shatered steel when he was way weaker, his elasticity is a tensor that increases with his raw power from basic to bullet, riffle, bazooka and battling to g2, g3 and g4.

He can also only control to a point and he has non-sharp parts of his body and Luffy has show he can bait n attack and counter into a vulnerable spot etc.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> That said I do think Luffy can take it with very high diff after seeing that Crocodile panel again.


I am glad you believe so.



TheWiggian said:


> I linked the obd calcs into the convo since it came down to physics arguments, which again shows Luffy and Zoro nearly equal. Whatever difference you mentioned above is not included in their feats on that site. Unless there is an updated version?


Small town level (overpowered 's Desert Spada with a punch,  the bottom of Alabasta, also  with his Golden Rifle)

Just figured I'd scale Luffy's most powerful attack from the pre-timeskip era.



*Spoiler*: __ 




*Spoiler*: __ 







crocodile is *35 pixels*

hole size is *280 pixels*

ratio = 8

crocodile is *2.53 meters* tall

hole is *20.24 meters* across

*Spoiler*:



top hole width = *9 pixels*

bottom hole width = *169 pixels*

Now, I'll refrain from degree scaling for now unless asked to do so later.

for now...

We do have a severely chopped up distance to scale though. Perspective is what shortens it.

*92 pixels* for hole height

11.5 is the ratio

You get a very low end depth of *232.76 meters* 

cyclinder volume = PIr^2 * H

You get a very low end volume of *74,851 m^3*

Recap

Hole Diameter = *20.24 meters*

Hole Depth = *232.76 meters*

Total Volume = *74,851 m^3*

Now...

At the request of Unknown of all people, I'll get a more accurate representation of the depth via degree scaling 

*Spoiler*:
*Spoiler*:


Uploaded with 


Top of hole = 9 pixels

Bottom of hole = 169 pixels

Panel size = 508 pixels = 200 degrees

top is *3.54* degrees and the bottom is *66.54* degrees

now, using this calculator



Just plug in the degrees and hole size of *20.24 meters*


Our view of the bottom of the hole is from about *15.424 meters* away.

Our view of the top of the hole is *327.49 meters* away.

Subtract the 2 to get the total depth.

Total depth of bedrock is *312.066 meters*

Our new volume is then *100,354.564 m^3*

Final Recap

Hole Diameter = *20.24 meters*

Hole Depth (low end) = *232.76 meters*

Hole Depth (low end, degree scaled) = *312.066 meters*

Total Volume (low end) = *74,851 m^3*

Total Volume (low end, degree scaled) = *100,354.564 m^3*






TheWiggian said:


> Zoro:
> 
> *Destructive Capacity:* Large Building level



This is your source btw.

Small town >>> large Building just saying.




Btw  I already knew that but wanted to show it with your own source. @MasterBeast  and @Sherlōck

Luffy was Large Build level vs Arlong :


*Spoiler*: __ 








Alabasta Luffy is small town level:


*Spoiler*: __ 








@Kinjin  I know you disagree with me but I want to know your take on this!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Small town level (overpowered 's Desert Spada with a punch,  the bottom of Alabasta, also  with his Golden Rifle)
> 
> Just figured I'd scale Luffy's most powerful attack from the pre-timeskip era.
> 
> ...



Why you keep ignoring the part where Zoro is compareable to Luffy even in Skypia? Did he improve more than Luffy to catch up then? This just gives more evidence to him being compareable in Alabasta. From there on Luffy barely advanced in destructive capacity.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Why you keep ignoring the part where Zoro is compareable to Luffy even in Skypia? Did he improve more than Luffy to catch up then? This just gives more evidence to him being compareable in Alabasta.


Again I used your sources that prove my point!

Zoro is not scaled to small town level.

Because Zoro improved in Skypea and Luffy did not face an opponent that needed brute strength but a way to bypass COO.

LOL, stop it now, Zoro is inferior to Alabasta Luffy as stated in your own damn material.

Zoro does not have small-town level AP 

that is why that much force can bust MR 1 and the logic for but Zoro couldn't does not stand because Zoro never had that kind of AP in Alabasta PERIOD!

I am done I said this from the start, you can agree or disagree!


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Again I used your sources that prove my point!
> 
> Zoro is not scaled to small town level.



Yep and the source has them compareable even an arc further


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Yep and the source has them compareable even an arc further


That is redundant because I never claimed it was not the case but Alabasta Zoro can't do that ... I am out.

Also, next Arc after that is EL  where Luffy again shits on Zoro's AP with G3 then next one is vs Moria with G3+G2.

Now is KKG etc.

In the movies, Luffy is island level with one move.

At the end of Wano, he would have delt the most damage to Kaido etc.

You can disagree but panels do not lie.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is redundant because I never claimed it was not the case but Alabasta Zoro can't do that ... I am out.



It is redundant because that would mean i'd have to admit there is not much of a difference 
At least you admit that Zoro can grow faster than Luffy and bridge small gaps.



Ren. said:


> Also, next Arc is EL where Luffy again shits on Zoro's AP with G3 then next one is vs Moria with G3+G2.
> 
> Now is KKG etc.
> 
> You can disagree but panels do not lie.



Funny that EL and TB has them compareable again at small and town level, panels definitely don't lie, you in this example do though.

Even funnier that both are at City+ in Dressrosa compareable to Ace, so that's another lie on your part.

Which proves my thesis of you being a Zoro hater.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Funny that EL and TB has them compareable again at small and town level, panels definitely don't lie, you in this example do though.
> 
> Even funnier that both are at City+ in Dressrosa compareable to Ace, so that's another lie on your part.
> 
> Which proves my thesis of you being a Zoro hater.


Mate I used your own materials, check the links

Luffy defeated Arlong and crushed  a large building and that is Large building AP

What he did vs Crocodile was small-town level said even by your source that you tried to rebut me with!


TheWiggian said:


> Which proves my thesis of you being a Zoro hater.


I am a Zoro hater because I used your own material to prove my point, I can live with that!

And that is an ad hominem and no one is a Zoro hater because he does not lie about his own feats, Zoro never had the same feats vs Luffy in the same arc, what you are doing is redundant and is really beneath you!


TheWiggian said:


> At least you admit that Zoro can grow faster than Luffy and bridge small gaps.


I don't even care because with the same logic then Luffy grows even more in EL so your own logic debunks you so whatever!


@TheWiggian  you can spin it how you want but my arguments never changed and I was correct even using your own sources.


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## TheWiggian (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Mate I used your own materials, check the links
> 
> Luffy defeated Arlong and crushed  a large building and that is Large building AP
> 
> ...



Nope you ignore portions of the sources/panels which is what you always do in every discussion. Iam not the first to reaize that.

Anyway it's pointless to continue this as Luffy still has no way of bypassing Daz durability.


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## Ren. (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Nope you ignore portions of the sources/panels which is what you always do in every discussion.


My main point was already proven, you tried to dispute it with a source, I took that source and proved again my point.

I did what I wanted and that is that!

My first posts and this one have the same point that Zoro is not as strong as Luffy proven by your own argument based on your own source and that Luffy already busted a 3m steel sword and a 2T steel weapon and an armor made of steel.

Extrapolating that means that Luffy can bust Mr1 with force equal to the destruction of a small town.

Zoro not having enough force is not a counter-argument because he never had the town level AP in Alabasta, to begin with.

Also, it never was an argument in the first place because Zoro never was as strong as Luffy and he will never be and if stating this makes me a Zoro hater, again I am cool with that!

I brought panels and math.

I respect your dedication to a false claim but that is all.

I am done!

In the last part of this thread I was like my Dracula:

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 24, 2020)

Luffy easily wins. It only took Zoro so long because he didn’t know how to cut steel. As soon as he figured it out, it was a one shot.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Mar 24, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Whatever difference you mentioned above is not included in their feats on that site. Unless there is an updated version?



There is no updated version as it depends on people to constantly do that & people usually get bored at a certain point.

And I have no idea who wrote Zoro has comparable DC to Luffy. I mean I don't think anyone says that Zoro is another tier from Luffy upto EL anyway. But that doesn’t mean they have same DC. For example we can derive from feat that Zoro > Sai. Based on OBD calcs Sai and Zoro both are city level. But at the same time Zoro's DC is 20x of Sai. But they are both City level since 1 MT to 999 MT is considered City level. These are the nuances you will learn if you lurk or take part in debate in OBD.

But that's beside the point. The point is you shouldn’t take OBD wiki as holy grail.

What's evident is Zoro simply doesn’t have any on panel feat that is comparable to Luffy. Power level scaling is another thing in which we give Zoro benefit of doubt of being 2nd strongest to Luffy.

Also it goes without saying that you shouldn’t use obd calcs in OPB.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 24, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> There is no updated version as it depends on people to constantly do that & people usually get bored at a certain point.
> 
> And I have no idea who wrote Zoro has comparable DC to Luffy. I mean I don't think anyone says that Zoro is another tier from Luffy upto EL anyway. But that doesn’t mean they have same DC. For example we can derive from feat that Zoro > Sai. Based on OBD calcs Sai and Zoro both are city level. But at the same time Zoro's DC is 20x of Sai. But they are both City level since 1 MT to 999 MT is considered City level. These are the nuances you will learn if you lurk or take part in debate in OBD.
> 
> ...


Ye I thought it was retarded how they scaled Skypiea Zoro to Alabasta Luffy in terms of destructive power with their reasoning being "uhh, Zoro shouldn't be too far from Luffy so i guess we'll just label it the same and assume Zoro caught up".

Even though he performed no compareable feat to Luffy's final attack against Crocodile or fought off any attack of compareable destructive capacity or striking strength during Skypiea.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 24, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> Ye I thought it was retarded how they scaled Skypiea Zoro to Alabasta Luffy in terms of destructive power with their reasoning being "uhh, Zoro shouldn't be too far from Luffy so i guess we'll just label it the same and assume Zoro caught up".
> 
> Even though he performed no compareable feat to Luffy's final attack against Crocodile or fought off any attack of compareable destructive capacity or striking strength during Skypiea.


 skypeia zoro is stronger than alabasta luffy


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 24, 2020)

xmysticgohanx said:


> skypeia zoro is stronger than alabasta luffy


That's in reference to destructive power and striking force. Neither of which Zoro did better in, in Skypiea than Luffy did in Alabasta.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Mar 24, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Yes, they do, as all of those are regarding steel!
> *And we are transforming and extrapolating from other feats!*
> 
> 
> ...



Adressing The bold parts:

- Which is what you can't do because I already explained that each of those situations are different. For example breaking that sword of Arlong with a few fingers is much easier than breaking Mr. 1. Just like breaking a twig or match is easier than breaking a tree.

- No he is not. We saw Luffy and Zoro stalemate in physical strength while Mr. 1 actually overpowered Zoro and threw him into a building.

"way faster" is baseless and rather unlikely.

-Mr. 1 doesn't have any vulnerable spots. 


You are severely underestimating Mr.1


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## Ren. (Mar 25, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> - Which is what you can't do because I already explained that each of those situations are different. For example breaking that sword of Arlong with a few fingers is much easier than breaking Mr. 1. Just like breaking a twig or match is easier than breaking a tree.


Yes I can.

Mate the sword was a 3M long one and was done with a simpler grip that shit is so different than an attack that has the AP of a small town.

This is why it works also there were distinct sampling points like a 2T spear, that has a bigger mass that Mr1 even if the density is lower and the attack used to destroy it are so inferior to one that can decimate a town.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> - No he is not. We saw Luffy and Zoro stalemate in physical strength while Mr. 1 actually overpowered Zoro and threw him into a building.


Yes he is and we didn't ever see Zoro raw strength vs Luffy.

Do you really believe that Mr1  is stronger than Luffy that overpower Crocodile? So Crcododile is a scrub for you LOL.

Also false, they did not stalemate in physical strength but negated two moves aka AP.

Remove Zoro's sword and Luffy will not need to catch the hands before they connect ... a fist vs fist Zoro gets decimated, I have shown so many panels proving that from multiple arcs.
And the Zoro was equal to Luffy was never tru in a big fight like Alabasta, EL, TB vs Moria, DressRosa, WCI and now in Wano.

Using  WP means nothing to what Alabasta Luffy has shown and Zoro is not close to those feats on a panel.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> "way faster" is baseless and rather unlikely.


He is ...


DiscoZoro20 said:


> -Mr. 1 doesn't have any vulnerable spots.


He has none cutting surfaces, those are vulnarable to enough blunt force.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> You are severely underestimating Mr.1


No, you are shitting on actual feats and Crocodile with the fact that you believe his underling has more raw strength vs him.

Luffy's raw strength gives him town level AP, Mr1 has shit AP wise, what was that small building etc.

Also, I would appreciate that you guys stop those false claims that I even debunked with sources from one of you.

Zoro was not equal to Luffy and MR1 is not superior in any stats to Crocodile bar Durability of his main body vs Mr1's DF body!


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## Corax (Mar 26, 2020)

Mr1 DF steel isn't normal. It took Mihawk's air slash and he was only slightly wounded. And Mihawk's air slash can cut steel. Though it was MF Mr1 but yet his DF was the same.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Mar 26, 2020)

Scaling Zorro to Ruffy...

Calc´s dont even matter for in-verse battles


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> *1. *Yes I can.
> 
> *1.5 *Mate the sword was a 3M long one and was done with a simpler grip that shit is so different than an attack that has the AP of a small town.
> 
> ...



*1.*No you simply can't no matter how we look at it. Can you break through a giant tree just because you broke a twig or not? A simple yes or no is enough for that.

*1.5 *"attack power of a small town" means little to nothing to scale Luffy above Zoro when we not only see Zoro stalemate Luffy's strength regardless but also see him throw around houses like nothing.

*2.*Yes I do believe Mr. 1 is physically stronger than Luffy and Crocodile. Unless you want to tell me that Luffy/Croc can casually push Zoro into a wall I don't see why I should believe otherwise...

*3. *Attack power created by strength so that isn't false.

*4. *Pretty much all of this is assumption

*5. *I believe he is.

*6. *Crocodile himself shows great respect towards Mr.1 so feel free to call that underestimatio. I don't.

*7. *Since he uses rubber power and even his post timeskip attacks barely exceed small town level I would consider that debatable.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> *1.*No you simply can't no matter how we look at it. Can you break through a giant tree just because you broke a twig or not? A simple yes or no is enough for that.


If you can smash a town sure you can if you crushed that twig with just your grip!


DiscoZoro20 said:


> *1.5 *"attack power of a small town" means little to nothing to scale Luffy above Zoro when we not only see Zoro stalemate Luffy's strength regardless but also see him throw around houses like nothing.


Trowing the top of a small house means shit vs town level Ap, that is not even small building AP that is wall level strength!



DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yes I do believe Mr. 1 is physically stronger than Luffy and Crocodile. Unless you want to tell me that Luffy/Croc can casually push Zoro into a wall I don't see why I should believe otherwise...


Mr1 showed Town level AP? if not he is shit, he is like what building level in AP, below Large Building.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> *3. *Attack power created by strength so that isn't false.


Yes so Luffy and Crocodile shit on Mr1 because both are town level, where is Mr1 town level feats on panel?



DiscoZoro20 said:


> *4. *Pretty much all of this is assumption
> 
> *5. *I believe he is.


Not really all with panels.


DiscoZoro20 said:


> *6. *Crocodile himself shows great respect towards Mr.1 so feel free to call that underestimatio. I don't


Yes now he is inferior to him, LOL like never happened but do prove me wrong with one panel at least.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> *7. *Since he uses rubber power and even his post timeskip attacks barely exceed small town level I would consider that debatable.


Sure this is town level for you:



Both are from his training nothing new.

But you are so proving me wrong now Luffy after TS is Town level when Zoro is casual mountain level but hey I am a hater here.


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## Mob (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yes I do believe Mr. 1 is physically stronger than Luffy and Crocodile. Unless you want to tell me that Luffy/Croc can casually push Zoro into a wall I don't see why I should believe otherwise...


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Mob said:


>



You are misunderstanding what I said. Not superior on destructive power... Superior in sheer physical strength.


Ren. said:


> If you can smash a town sure you can if you crushed that twig with just your grip!
> 
> Trowing the top of a small house means shit vs town level Ap, that is not even small building AP that is wall level strength!
> 
> ...




Yes those feats are town level. Besides it isn't exactly all that impressive when Luffy repeatedly attacks as he did with storm or gatling.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You are misunderstanding what I said. Not superior on destructive power... Superior in sheer physical strength.


NO you again don't understand Luffy at all, his AP scales with his raw strength.

And no Mr1 is not superior to  Luffy physically, even Lucci never was when he used G2.

Only Kaido and BM has shown superiority vs Luffy and they are the top of the top from what he faced.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> NO you again don't understand Luffy at all, his AP scales with his raw strength.
> 
> And no Mr1 is not superior to  Luffy physically, even Lucci never was when he used G2.
> 
> Only Kaido and BM has shown superiority vs Luffy and they are the top of the top from what he faced.



So you believe he used *gomu gomu no storm *because he can punch just as hard with regular attacks and the stretching is just for fun?


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yes those feats are town level. Besides it isn't exactly all that impressive when Luffy repeatedly attacks as he did with storm or gatling.


Dude stop it first @TheWiggian  tried to show me that Zoro has the same stats and that backfired and now you believe.

That NOAH an island size ship gets destroyed by town level AP or that  KKG is town level LOL.
SO DD can be finished by Alabasta Luffy 

SO for you Alabasta Storm and KKG are the same level aka town level  @Sherlōck  this is not even funny anymore.


DiscoZoro20 said:


> So you believe he used *gomu gomu no storm *because he can punch just as hard with regular attacks and the stretching is just for fun?


Again Zoro getting pushed into a wall is not impressive vs town level AP!


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Dude stop it first @TheWiggian  tried to show me that Zoro has the same stats and that backfired and now you believe.
> 
> That NOAH an island size ship gets destroyed by town level AP or that  KKG is town level LOL.
> SO DD can be finished by Alabasta Luffy
> ...



I'm not talking about Noah but I already addressed that part. If Zoro attacks that ship repeatedly he gets the same result. And no they may be both town level but not every town is the same size. I dunno what you are even trying to argue otherwise anyway. We can clearly see him smash a part of a town or city but go ahead and tells us more about him being continent buster or something.


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## Sherlōck (Mar 26, 2020)

Anyone who thinks Mr.1 is physically stronger than Luffy & Crocodile should not be taken seriously.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I'm not talking about Noah but I already addressed that part. If Zoro attacks that ship repeatedly he gets the same result. And no they may be both town level but not every town is the same size.


MAte that is not town level ... get it I am getting bored.

KKG is not town level it never was.


Sherlōck said:


> Anyone who thinks Mr.1 is physically stronger than Luffy & Crocodile should not be taken seriously.


No, I want to tell me how does one believe that KKG is town level now aka the same level of Alabsta Storm


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> MAte that is not town level ... get it I am getting bored.
> 
> KKG is not town level it never was.



So it is continent level according to you...? And what he destroyed is not a town...?


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> So it is continent level according to you...? And what he destroyed is not a town...?


So you go from town level to continental now 

Like City, mountain, small island, big island, country just saying.


there several levels between those 

No, he didn't destroy a town that after that remaining kinetic energy from negating DD's strongest attack that has Island level range and a lot of AP, the strongest shield that negates G3 for breakfast that can destroy NOAH, KOed DD that has mountain durability if not more and the remaining energy fliped 2 bedrock larger than a town each upwards.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Sherlōck said:


> Anyone who thinks Mr.1 is physically stronger than Luffy & Crocodile should not be taken seriously.



That sounds more like your salty opinion than anything that should be taken seriously. But yeah yeah go ahead and show us someone who can lift buildings get pushed into a wall by Sir Crocodile or Luffy. 



Ren. said:


> So you go from town level to continental now
> 
> Like City, mountain, small island, big island, country just saying.
> 
> ...



It could be a big town or a small city. What you are arguing is just semantics here because you are angry that Luffy's attack power sounds slightly less op when someone says "town". And no I do not go from town to continental.. I was merely talking about the destructive power in terms of what was the easiest to compare it to because there is a city/town right there in the picture. Why in the world would I talk about mountains when Luffy is destroying the ground...? Zoro destroyed something the size of a mountain too that doesn't change that his attacks can be considered town level depending on which one you bring up.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It could be a big town or a small city. What you are arguing is just semantics here because you are angry that Luffy's attack power sounds slightly less op when someone says "town". And no I do not go from town to continental.. I was merely talking about the destructive power in terms of that was the easiest to compare it to because there is a city/town right there in the picture. Why in the world would I talk about mountains when Luffy is dstroying the ground...?


I am done ...


DiscoZoro20 said:


> was merely talking about the destructive power in terms of that was the easiest to compare it to because there is a city/town right there in the picture.


That is not how you calc the AP of that :
No, he didn't destroy a town that after that remaining kinetic energy from negating DD's strongest attack that has Island level range and a lot of AP, the strongest shield that negates G3 for breakfast that can destroy NOAH, KOed DD that has mountain durability if not more and the remaining energy fliped 2 bedrock larger than a town each upwards.

In the movies, Luffy used a bigger move than KKG and it was island level  but sure it is town level  aka the same level that Luffy was in Alabasta LOL!


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I am done ...
> 
> That is not how you calc the AP of that :
> No, he didn't destroy a town that after that remaining kinetic energy from negating DD's strongest attack that has Island level range and a lot of AP, the strongest shield that negates G3 for breakfast that can destroy NOAH, KOed DD that has mountain durability if not more and the remaining energy fliped 2 bedrock larger than a town each upwards.
> ...



You keep arguing semantics. I know that the attack was being soaked up by a few layers but there is no point in speculating what range it is in full power so I refer to panels that actually show us the result.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You keep arguing semantics. I know that the attack was being soaked up by a few layers but there is no point in speculating what range it is in full power so I refer to panels that actually show us the result.


It is not speculating as I showed you what G3 can and you can scale that and also he can do a gattling of that and you can scale that etc.
I am not talking about range LOL but about attack potency and this is a concentrated attack similar to Assura that has the highest attack for Zoro but is a concentrated and non-ranged attack.

What he showed vs Pica is below Assura but they have a way bigger range ... I am done if you believe I was using semantics.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> It is not speculating as I showed you what G3 can and you can scale that and also he can do a gattling of that and you can scale that etc.
> I am not talking about range LOL but about attack potency and this is a concentrated attack similar to Assura that has the highest attack for Zoro but is a concentrated and non-ranged attack.
> 
> What he showed vs Pica is below Assura but they have a way bigger range ... I am done if you believe I was using semantics.



It remains speculation until you show us a panel of an unrestricted king Kong Gun. I dunno why you care about this nonsense anyway... We were talking about Luffy and Zoro pre-skip remember?

Range and attack potency are pretty much the same in this case. We can see the attack potency by looking at the range of destruction. You overcomplicate this way too much.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It remains speculation until you show us a panel of an unrestricted king Kong Gun. I dunno why you care about this nonsense anyway... We were talking about Luffy and Zoro pre-skip remember?


You said that Luffy is Town level as he was in Alabasta.


DiscoZoro20 said:


> You overcomplicate this way too much.




No, I literally said all that I had to  and you dragged me in the town level AP for current Luffy 


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Besides it isn't exactly all that impressive when Luffy repeatedly attacks as he did with storm or gatling.


That is the range Dude, stop contradicting yourself.
The range of storm made the AP go to town level.

To calc KKG you can't do the same because they are not the same type of attack and AP wise kkG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alabasta Storm.


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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Daz is physically stronger then luffy and Croc because he pushed Zoro into a house

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Daz is physically stronger then luffy and Croc because he pushed Zoro into a house



Yes overpowering Zoro In a contest of strength makes you stronger then charcters that can't do the same. 

Which in this case applies to Croc. Please try and argue that Croc is physically superior to Zoro  

It doesn't make Mr.1 stronger then Luffy though as Luffy has better strength feats then Zoro.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Which in this case applies to Croc. Please try and argue that Croc is physically superior to Zoro


You can't prove both but because of portrait it goes to Croco.

There is no way Mr1 is superior to Mr0.

One was in the NW And was manhandled by  WB, the other did nothing.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 26, 2020)

Ren. said:


> *You can prove both but because of portrait it goes to Croco.*
> 
> There is no way Mr1 is superior to Mr0.
> 
> One was in the NW And was manhandled by  WB, the other did nothing.



I would like to see the proof of that cause I don't know of anything. 

Portrayal applies to overall strength not individual stats. Zoro is superior to Hakuba in portrayal and feats. Doesn't mean he can move faster then him.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 26, 2020)

Zoro broke 6 300kg swords when near death and with shitty swords in Arlong Park.

Luffy broke Don Krieg's armor with 2 Bazookas.

In WP Zoro could equally match Bazooka with a basic ass Onigiri.

Zoro did 0 damage to Mr. 1 until he used Shishi Sonson.

Yet Luffy can beat Mr. 1 because he could break steel? I mean...Zoro could too - but couldn't do anything to Mr. 1. Mihawk couldn't break Mr. 1's body despite having enough strength to slice that huge ass iceberg. He had to intend to cut steel to take out Mr. 1. Even if you downplay the hell out of Mihawk and scale him to Vista...he's still >>> Luffy and Zoro pre-TS, especially Alabasta. Did Mr. 1's steel body get stronger? Steel should be steel, right?

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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I would like to see the proof of that cause I don't know of anything.


I would like to see you prove Mr1 having superior strength and no been overpowerd by Luffy is not it after all Luffy is above all 3.


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Portrayal applies to overall strength not individual stats. Zoro is superior to Hakuba in portrayal and feats. Doesn't mean he can move faster then him.


Luffy is superior To zoro, has better COA and raw strength, faster than Sanji and better COO.

Crocodile was the boos not Hakuba.


Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Even if you downplay the hell out of Mihawk and scale him to Vista...he's still >>> Luffy and Zoro pre-TS, especially Alabasta. Did Mr. 1's steel body get stronger? Steel should be steel, right?


Mate in EL Luffy one-shot a buncar style steel door that has 30 MR1 of Mass like 30tones or so.



Mr1 is not that impressive after Alabasta!


Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Luffy broke Don Krieg's armor with 2 Bazookas.


His spear alone was 2Tones that is > those 6 swords!


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 26, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Zoro broke 6 300kg swords when near death and with shitty swords in Arlong Park.
> 
> Yet Luffy can beat Mr. 1 because he could break steel? I mean...Zoro could too - but couldn't do anything to Mr. 1.


LITERALLY, the biggest obstacle in that fight was that Zoro could not cut steel. The author could not point this out any clearer to you.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Luffy broke Don Krieg's armor with 2 Bazookas.
> 
> In WP Zoro could equally match Bazooka with a basic ass Onigiri.



Basic ass Onigiri? It was one of Zoro's top signature techniques at the time.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Mihawk couldn't break Mr. 1's body despite having enough strength to slice that huge ass iceberg.


Huh? He sliced through it with a generic slash.


*Spoiler*: __

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## Mob (Mar 26, 2020)

there is literally nothing to debate here images tell more than a 1000 words
Luffy

*Spoiler*: __ 














VS
Mr1


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

Mob said:


> there is literally nothing to debate here images tell more than a 1000 words
> Luffy
> 
> 
> ...





AS I have been saying for like 3 pages not even in the same ball park!


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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

This is a very bad matchup for Luffy. A lot of people can’t see that because they can’t remove Zoro out of the equation.

At this point in the story, pre-CoA, the best person to fight Mr. 1 is a swordsman. Swordsman can attack him with the chance of not getting hurt and let their swords take the beating. A brawler like Luffy puts himself at risk every time he attacks. All of Luffy’s linger ranged attacks are predictable (Stamp, pistol etc.) and would easily be met by a move like buzzsaw. Endurance wise, Zoro hit him with a series of blunt attacks with his fists as well as the blunt end of his swords and he didn’t even phase him. Say what you want about the 1v1 but Luffy and Zoro have always been comparable strictly speaking about physical strength. Luffy has to fight Mr. 1 in close quarters which is what he wants. The difference is he doesn’t have swords to parry or block any attacks. I don’t see how he wins this realistically.


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## Vivo Diez (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> This is a very bad matchup for Luffy. A lot of people can’t see that because they can’t remove Zoro out of the equation.
> 
> At this point in the story, pre-CoA, the best person to fight Mr. 1 is a swordsman. Swordsman can attack him with the chance of not getting hurt and let their swords take the beating. A brawler like Luffy puts himself at risk every time he attacks. All of Luffy’s linger ranged attacks are predictable (Stamp, pistol etc.) and would easily be met by a move like buzzsaw. Endurance wise, Zoro hit him with a series of blunt attacks with his fists as well as the blunt end of his swords and he didn’t even phase him. Say what you want about the 1v1 but Luffy and Zoro have always been comparable strictly speaking about physical strength. Luffy has to fight Mr. 1 in close quarters which is what he wants. The difference is he doesn’t have swords to parry or block any attacks. I don’t see how he wins this realistically.


He's literally fought at least 5 sharp weapon wielders that I can think of before Alabasta even started 

Also bruh, you did not just compare what Zoro can do with a blunt attack and what Luffy can do. Bruuuuuh.

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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> He's literally fought at least 5 sharp weapon wielders that I can think of before Alabasta even started
> 
> Also bruh, you did not just compare what Zoro can do with a blunt attack and what Luffy can do. Bruuuuuh.


It’s not just lol I have a knife. Mr. 1’s ability allows him to spawn blades anywhere on his body meaning he can use them as offense or defense. The amount of versatility he has thanks to his DF is absurd especially at the time of Alabasta. Tell me when you think happens if Luffy goes bare fisted into buzzsaw.

And yes, I did because they have always been comparable in the physical strength department. Especially pre-gears.

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## Vivo Diez (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> It’s not just lol I have a knife. Mr. 1’s ability allows him to spawn blades anywhere on his body meaning he can use them as offense or defense. The amount of versatility he has thanks to his DF is absurd especially at the time of Alabasta. Tell me when you think happens if Luffy goes bare fisted into buzzsaw.


As far as I recall, he hasn't displayed the ability to spawn blades anywhere on his body. All of his attacks involve his arms and I believe he had one attack when he turned his feet into blades.



Conxc said:


> And yes, I did because they have always been comparable in the physical strength department. Especially pre-gears.


Just because they might be compare-able in terms of physical strength, that in no way means that Zoro in his dreams could ever do as much blunt damage as any of Luffy's named attacks. Not even his regular punches. It's like saying Luffy could pick up a sword and do just as much cutting damage because they both have compare-able physical strength. It's nonsense.

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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

Vivo Diez said:


> As far as I recall, he hasn't displayed the ability to spawn blades anywhere on his body. All of his attacks involve his arms and I believe he had one attack when he turned his feet into blades.


He has the Dice Dice Paramecia DF. Same way Luffy’s entire body turns to rubber, Kata’s body turns to Mochi etc, he’s no different. He tells Zoro that he’s a sword man and in chapter 194, Zoro says “That’s right! This guy’s a human sword! Every part of his body is a cutting edge!” It’s more than a safe assumption to make. I don’t see why the laws of Paramecia fruits should change at him. Still doesn’t change the fact that he can block Luffy’s punches with Buzzsaw as he did against Zoro. Only difference is Zoro has his swords to block with.




> Just because they might be compare-able in terms of physical strength, that in no way means that Zoro in his dreams could ever do as much blunt damage as any of Luffy's named attacks. Not even his regular punches. *It's like saying Luffy could pick up a sword and do just as much cutting damage because they both have compare-able physical strength.* It's nonsense.


The bold is silly and purposefully obtuse. Anyone can throw a punch. Not anyone use proper sword technique, so no. It’s not even close...Punches thrown aside, Zoro used the blunt force from his swords a lot. Especially considering that since he could not cut Mr. 1, any contact he made with his blades was blunt damage. Simple blunt damage is comparable if brute strength is comparable. It’s literally that simple.

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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> He has the Dice Dice Paramecia DF. Same way Luffy’s entire body turns to rubber, Kata’s body turns to Mochi etc, he’s no different. He tells Zoro that he’s a sword man and in chapter 194, Zoro says “That’s right! This guy’s a human sword! Every part of his body is a cutting edge!” It’s more than a safe assumption to make. I don’t see why the laws of Paramecia fruits should change at him. Still doesn’t change the fact that he can block Luffy’s punches with Buzzsaw as he did against Zoro. Only difference is Zoro has his swords to block with.
> 
> 
> The bold is silly and purposefully obtuse. Anyone can throw a punch. Not anyone use proper sword technique, so no. It’s not even close...Punches thrown aside, Zoro used the blunt force from his swords a lot. Especially considering that since he could not cut Mr. 1, any contact he made with his blades was blunt damage. Simple blunt damage is comparable if brute strength is comparable. It’s literally that simple.


For god sake bro, I don’t want to call you an idiot but man... Cutting/ piercing attacks could never be considered blunt damage, where did you get this logic from? Who sold you these lies?

Just @ them, and I’ll get mods to delete them (yes the whole user for spreading such propaganda) from this site. 

Zoros swords being blocked by harder steel does not mean his cutting/ piercing attacks switch to blunt damage, that’s not how it works, never has and never will. 

Metal hits metal and the harder metal breaks through, a fist made from flesh and blood breaks solid iron, I’ll let you have the first guess, why do you think flesh can break through metal while metal itself can’t?


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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> For god sake bro, I don’t want to call you an idiot but man... Cutting/ piercing attacks could never be considered blunt damage, where did you get this logic from? Who sold you these lies?


...If you are trying to cut metal with a sword yet you are failing to cut it you’re then hitting a piece of metal with a piece of metal...hence blunt force. Obviously it’s blunt force if you use the back of the blade as well.



> Zoros swords being blocked by harder steel does not mean his cutting/ piercing attacks switch to blunt damage, that’s not how it works, never has and never will.
> 
> Metal hits metal and the harder metal breaks through, a fist made from flesh and blood breaks solid iron, I’ll let you have the first guess, why do you think flesh can break through metal while metal itself can’t?


It doesn’t switch to anything. The swords are making contact, but are not cutting. What does that mean? It has nothing to do with which metal is harder. He was hacking away at Mr. 1 the whole time until he learned to cut steel. He was only able to cut him after gaining the ability...using the same sword that he failed to cut him with all along. Go back to the flashback when Koushirou hit the paper. It didn’t cut the paper, so it had the same effect on the paper as if you took your fist and punched it. It’s that simple.

edit: You can call me an idiot if you want. Think about what’s being said, though. I don’t believe you even tried to understand, just jumped because you read something you didn’t like.

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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> ...If you are trying to cut metal with a sword yet you are failing to cut it you’re then hitting a piece of metal with a piece of metal...hence blunt force. Obviously it’s blunt force if you use the back of the blade as well.
> 
> It doesn’t switch to anything. The swords are making contact, but are not cutting. What does that mean? It has nothing to do with which metal is harder. He was hacking away at Mr. 1 the whole time until he learned to cut steel. He was only able to cut him after gaining the ability...using the same sword that he failed to cut him with all along. Go back to the flashback when Koushirou hit the paper. It didn’t cut the paper, so it had the same effect on the paper as if you took your fist and punched it. It’s that simple.
> 
> edit: You can call me an idiot if you want. Think about what’s being said, though. I don’t believe you even tried to understand, just jumped because you read something you didn’t like.


What do you think blunt refers to?


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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> What do you think blunt refers to?


Something you and I both need rn.


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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> Something you and I both need rn.


Speak for yourself, I’ve been baked for the last 3 days.


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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Speak for yourself, I’ve been baked for the last 3 days.


I can tell. 

Nah, but for real tho. If you hit a metal door with a katana or even a knife but you aren’t cutting it, eventually you’ll probably deny the door...which is using blunt force.


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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> I can tell.
> 
> Nah, but for real tho. If you hit a metal door with a katana or even a knife but you aren’t cutting it, eventually you’ll probably deny the door...which is using blunt force.


The sword is sharp for one.

Hit your tv with your fist if you are strong enough to destroy it, buy another one and then stab it with a knife using the same force, should have different results.

Maybe you want to try something that isn’t going to break, hit the top of your fridge with an open palm then hit the same spot with your knife slashing it, more then likely the fridge was more moved by the open palm then it was the knife, while the knife should leave a scratch while the open palm should be at worse dented if even that lol.

Surface area, point of damage and distribution of force is what’s different.

I’m definitely not the best at giving the right analogies but hopefully you got the point.

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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> The sword is sharp for one.
> 
> Hit your tv with your fist if you are strong enough to destroy it, buy another one and then stab it with a knife using the same force, should have different results.
> 
> ...


I understand what you’re trying to say and it’s hard to give real world analogies here but this is different. Using a knife in something you can’t cut isn’t actually cutting it. At that point you’re hitting something with a piece of metal. A knife is sharp, yes but in this case that doesn’t matter against Mr. 1 unless you can cut steel. Basically until that point, Zoro might as well have been hitting him with full blades. At some point during the fight Mr. 1 told him blunt attacks and cutting attacks don’t work on him. I know Zoro’s intent was to cut but he wasn’t actually doing that. That’s what I’m trying to say.

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## Beast (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> I understand what you’re trying to say and it’s hard to give real world analogies here but this is different. Using a knife in something you can’t cut isn’t actually cutting it. At that point you’re hitting something with a piece of metal. A knife is sharp, yes but in this case that doesn’t matter against Mr. 1 unless you can cut steel. Basically until that point, Zoro might as well have been hitting him with full blades. At some point during the fight Mr. 1 told him blunt attacks and cutting attacks don’t work on him. I know Zoro’s intent was to cut but he wasn’t actually doing that. That’s what I’m trying to say.


Ummm... okay, one last example lol. 

Say Luffy hits say the same strength as Zoro, while Luffy puts all all his strength into one point where his fists lands,  Zoro spreads it through the slash/ cutting motion. 

The difference is like a dot and a line, the dot is shorter but covers more surface area, while the slash/ cut is longer but thinner covering less surface area. 

The sharpness of the blade what makes Zoro lethal even if luffy and him could produce exactly the same force, Zoros will always be more lethal, it’s just the properties of such weapons. 

That is why swords cut things and don’t break thing, while a hammer smashes things but doesnt cut them, they don’t gain new properties because they’ve become dull or unable to do their job.


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## Ren. (Mar 26, 2020)

Conxc said:


> The bold is silly and purposefully obtuse. Anyone can throw a punch. Not anyone use proper sword technique, so no. It’s not even close...Punches thrown aside, Zoro used the blunt force from his swords a lot. Especially considering that since he could not cut Mr. 1, any contact he made with his blades was blunt damage. Simple blunt damage is comparable if brute strength is comparable. It’s literally that simple.


No you are wrong as always, not anyone can two a punch, you trow a punch and then Myke Tyson trowns a punch.

Yep Luffy's blunt damage is town level not comparable at all with no one in Alabasta.


Conxc said:


> hence blunt force. Obviously it’s blunt force if you use the back of the blade as well.


Not remotely comparable with what Luffy does, the surface of contact and force are tiers below.

 A sword cuts because it's surface of contact is so small and the force from the user is transfer exponentially, remove that and the force is so weak.

You again act as you understand but you don't!

I am kind of shocked that you guys insist on crap that is illogical.


MasterBeast said:


> Ummm... okay, one last example lol.
> 
> Say Luffy hits say the same strength as Zoro, while Luffy puts all all his strength into one point where his fists lands,  Zoro spreads it through the slash/ cutting motion.
> 
> ...



Let me help you a little.

The surface area is a circle 2, or many more circles for Luffy the surface area for Zoro is the radius of that circle or and extended one of the length of a sword or several.

*Blade length(HA-CHOU)* 66.3 cm (9 Bu 2 Syaku 1 Sun)
*Curvature(SORI)* 1.4cm
*Width at the hamachi(MOTO-HABA)* 3.13cm
*Thickness at the Moto Kasane* 0.64cm
*Thickness at the Shinogi* 0.67cm
*Width at the kissaki (SAKI_HABA)* 2.23cm
*Thickness at the Saki kasane* 0.49cm

Thanks, NF for removing the rest of the comment, I am not repeating this.
.


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## Conxc (Mar 26, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Ummm... okay, one last example lol.
> 
> Say Luffy hits say the same strength as Zoro, while Luffy puts all all his strength into one point where his fists lands,  Zoro spreads it through the slash/ cutting motion.
> 
> ...


Ahh, I think I see where you misunderstood me. My initial post responding to Vivo was about Zoro resorting to punching and kicking Mr. 1, which brought about the whole blunt force discussion and the fact that Luffy and Zoro are comparable in brute strength. I know that a sword creating blunt force is still different than a fist, or a hammer. My point in bringing up the sword isn’t to compare surface area of DC for that matter, but to emphasize that a sword can still cause blunt force damage. Might not be as apparent as a hammer or whatever but if a sword is failing to cut another piece of metal, it will dent it. It won’t cause as big a dent as if you took a hammer to it, but it will still dent it. Like you said, the area of impact will look different because of how thin a blade is compared to a hammer.

Edit: If you got back and read the fight, you can even see at some point Zoro attacks Mr. 1’s head with the point of his sword. It makes contact, but obviously doesn’t pierce him, so the blow ended up pushing him back as if he punched him or hit him with a more blunt object like the end of a pipe.


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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

Conxc said:


> but to emphasize that a sword can still cause blunt force damage.


Too small to even count, this is why swords shattered on impact with some armors.


Conxc said:


> Might not be as apparent as a hammer or whatever but if a sword is failing to cut another piece of metal, it will dent it.


Or it will break and not it does not need to dent it if the density of the material is higher and it does not mean an absurdly higher level of blunt AP will not crush it as town level AP.


Conxc said:


> ike you said, the area of impact will look different because of how thin a blade is compared to a hammer.


That was only on things that @MasterBeast  compared them not on solid metal with that high of a density.

The force from a sword is lowered because of the exponential effect of a low area surface with a lot of force, this is why a blade is deadlier than a fist.

Luffy's force is magnified by tensile force and it not remotely the same so even if they have the same normal striking force which they don', his force is magnified absurdly by the elastic force to town level.

Zoro's exponential factor is removed so his force is not the same as on normal density objects like a rock for example.

So in fact Zoro in a disadvantage and his AP is way lowered.


Luffy gets up to town level AP

And Zoro gets down because his lethality is negated.

Whatever you say the remaining kinetic energy from his sword is abysmal to the magnified energy from a sword's surface area + force and abysmally vs Luffy's own superior raw strength magnified 100 if not 1000 of times by his elastic properties putting him o town level AP at the end.


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## Beast (Mar 27, 2020)

Conxc said:


> Ahh, I think I see where you misunderstood me. My initial post responding to Vivo was about Zoro resorting to punching and kicking Mr. 1, which brought about the whole blunt force discussion and the fact that Luffy and Zoro are comparable in brute strength. I know that a sword creating blunt force is still different than a fist, or a hammer. My point in bringing up the sword isn’t to compare surface area of DC for that matter, but to emphasize that a sword can still cause blunt force damage. Might not be as apparent as a hammer or whatever but if a sword is failing to cut another piece of metal, it will dent it. It won’t cause as big a dent as if you took a hammer to it, but it will still dent it. Like you said, the area of impact will look different because of how thin a blade is compared to a hammer.


Yeah, I get it... kinda but the sword will always scratch at very least not dent because of the surface area is so thin, maybe if you use the flat part of the sword or hilt you could cause a metal surface to dent but that’s not possible with the sharp side espically in a cutting motion. 

Anyway, that should have cleared any misconceptions up, I Just couldn’t agree that Zoros attacks on Daz could be considered as Blunt damage and because Zoro couldn’t get through Daz with cutting attacks then Luffy can’t with his blunt attacks, it just sounded so crazy to me, like I wasn’t reading English anymore, I tried to make sense of it but couldn’t lol.

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## Conxc (Mar 27, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Yeah, I get it... kinda but the sword will always scratch at very least not dent because of the surface area is so thin, maybe if you use the flat part of the sword or hilt you could cause a metal surface to dent but that’s not possible with the sharp side espically in a cutting motion.
> 
> Anyway, that should have cleared any misconceptions up, I Just couldn’t agree that Zoros attacks on Daz could be considered as Blunt damage and because Zoro couldn’t get through Daz with cutting attacks then Luffy can’t with his blunt attacks, it just sounded so crazy to me, like I wasn’t reading English anymore, I tried to make sense of it but couldn’t lol.


Lol it’s all good. With that said I don’t think anybody in Alabasta, except for Smoker because of the sea stone topped jute, is beating Daz with blunt force. It’s just a really bad matchup for brawlers IMO.


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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

Conxc said:


> Lol it’s all good. With that said I don’t think anybody in Alabasta, except for Smoker because of the sea stone topped jute, is beating Daz with blunt force. It’s just a really bad matchup for brawlers IMO.


That is your opinion we respect it but that is all.

Town level AP can crush MR1 even if he has great density and mass.

Luffy crushed a 3m steel sword with a grip that has not elastic force.

Crushed a 2Tone solid metal spear with 2-3 attacks from EB.

Now extrapolate that to Town level AP and the mass*Density of MR1 is not a problem anymore.

And that was shown 2 arcs later by Oda with Luffy busting a solid steel door with higher mass than Mr.1 in one shot by g3:

At this point Mr1 is one-shot material to Luffy's basic G3 attack.


And this is not a regular steel door:


But many dozen of tones of steel with reinforcement similar to a safe's door.


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## Amol (Mar 27, 2020)

Luffy beats the shit out of Daz. 
I don't see why it is contested topic. We actually have seen Luffy fight with with people who had sharp and pointy objects as weapons and still beat them into submission. Daz ain't tanking Luffy's bedrock destroying attacks. 
Daz landed so many attacks on Zoro without Zoro losing so naturally Luffy won't be a goner with those attacks either. He will tank that shit. 
Luffy doesn't even need plot power that Zoro needed in the middle of battle. He just needs to punch Daz few times.

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## BigDKaios (Mar 27, 2020)

Luffy one shots smh....


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## Quipchaque (Mar 27, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You said that Luffy is Town level as he was in Alabasta.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well yes he is. Do you not realize how big a town is...? The one I am living in is over 100 square kilometres yet here you are acting like I'm downplaying Luffy. 

Current Luffy is irrelevant so whatevs but you dont need to pretend like noone is looking at the range of destruction to measure attack potency. That is just being dishonest and you arguing semantics all over again for God knows what reason.

Also you don't need to tell me that King Kong Gun is stronger. Everyone knows that. That still doesn't change that that attack was town or at most city level which is quite normal given that we aren't talking about Dbz.


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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Well yes he is. Do you not realize how big a town is...? The one I am living in is over 100 square kilometres yet here you are acting like I'm downplaying Luffy.


That is a city LOL, there is a standard or I could just say  city level is the biggest "CITY" like this:

The municipality of , whose administrative area is around the size of , has the largest population for a .

And that is larger vs some small countries LOL.


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Current Luffy is irrelevant so whatevs but you dont need to pretend like noone is looking at the range of destruction to measure attack potency.


Again you started this with saying that Luffy is still town level where he has shown he can destroy  NOAH level of objects with time and in the movies he already has island level moves.

I am not the one that started this topic you are.



DiscoZoro20 said:


> That still doesn't change that that attack was town or at most city level which is quite normal given that we aren't talking about Dbz.


Again a concentrated attack is not calculated that way or a punch from DBS is not at universal level because it only destroys some stones.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 27, 2020)

Ren. said:


> That is a city LOL, there is a standard or I could just say  city level is the biggest "CITY" like this:
> 
> The municipality of , whose administrative area is around the size of , has the largest population for a .
> 
> ...



Lol nah that is not a city. Even the smaller Cities in our country are at least twice as big as that. Berlin is even eight times bigger. Anyway point is town level isn't something you should consider small. That is still a massive area so stop getting upset about that as if I am insulting Luffy somehow. 

Repetitive attacks aren't equivalent to normal damage output. By that logic Buggy has country level destructive power if you just give him enough time. 

The movie attack wasn't what I was addressing stop clutching for straws. 

Luffy's attacks being "concentrated" is irrelevant. That doesn't give us leeway to just inflate its rating to whatever we feel like.


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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Lol nah that is not a city. Even the smaller Cities in our country are at least twice as big as that. Berlin is even eight times bigger. Anyway point is town level isn't something you should consider small. That is still a massive area so stop getting upset about that as if I am insulting Luffy somehow.


What )
 Austria occupies an area of 83,879 km2 (32,386 sq mi)

Berlin is 2 times that?

This is that city that I was talking about:

82,403 km2 (31,816 sq mi)

The municipality of , whose administrative area is around the size of , has the largest population for a .


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Repetitive attacks aren't equivalent to normal damage output.


But for you AOE ones and KKG are the same , mkay!


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Luffy's attacks being "concentrated" is irrelevant. That doesn't give us leeway to just inflate its rating to whatever we feel like.


So he is the same level as  Alabasta Storm for you and that is not inflating the attack AP now?

Again KKG is not the same level of AP vs Alabasta Storm!


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## Conxc (Mar 27, 2020)

Amol said:


> Luffy beats the shit out of Daz.
> I don't see why it is contested topic. We actually have seen Luffy fight with with people who had sharp and pointy objects as weapons and still beat them into submission. Daz ain't tanking Luffy's bedrock destroying attacks.
> Daz landed so many attacks on Zoro without Zoro losing so naturally Luffy won't be a goner with those attacks either. He will tank that shit.
> Luffy doesn't even need plot power that Zoro needed in the middle of battle. He just needs to punch Daz few times.


It’s one thing to think Luffy wins. It’s another thing to make it seem like this is a stomp in favor of Luffy. That’s ridiculous. Most of the underestimation of this character comes from the fact that Zoro beat him.

You can’t name me one “pointy object”user that was anywhere near as strong as Daz before Alabasta. I’m 110% ignoring any feats post-Alabasta for obvious reasons. Also, you can’t compare a guy that might have pulled a knife out against Luffy vs a human blade who can produce several rotating blades on his arms. That should go without saying. You saying “lol he just punch him” is completely ignoring the skill set and arsenal of his opponent that says he will *not *just punch him. The bedrock feat is nice, but it still ain’t harder than steel. I just love how your solution to Daz hitting him with things like rotating blades is “lol he tank” but Daz just needs to be punched a couple times...top notch. Zoro has swords to block or parry the attacks that he managed to avoid. Luffy has to fight in CQC with no such defense.

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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

Conxc said:


> The bedrock feat is nice, but it still ain’t harder than steel.


So the point got over your head,  for you, a city has less structural resistance than a 2m 1Tone of steel now LOL!

That is your argument.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Mar 27, 2020)

Ren. said:


> So the point got over your head,  for you, a city has less structural resistance than a 2m 1Tone of steel now LOL!
> 
> That is your argument.



Dude, it's just rock. Breaking rock isn't an impressive feat.

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## Ren. (Mar 27, 2020)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Dude, it's just rock. Breaking rock isn't an impressive feat.


Dude earth is just Rock nothing impressive in that!

Your argument!

A meteorite is just rock ...



O  Pica is just rock so Mr1 low diffs him 

Btw What Kaku cut was just concrete so he get low diffed by Mr1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 28, 2020)

Ren. said:


> What )
> Austria occupies an area of 83,879 km2 (32,386 sq mi)
> 
> Berlin is 2 times that?
> ...



Mate you can talk about Austria and whatever else you come up with a million more times that still doesn't mean that Luffy is physically stronger than Zoro or Daz Bones. Let alone Crocodile being stronger than them.


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## Beast (Mar 28, 2020)

Conxc said:


> The bedrock feat is nice, but it still ain’t harder than steel. I just love how your solution to Daz hitting him with things like rotating blades is “lol he tank” but Daz just needs to be punched a couple times...top notch. Zoro has swords to block or parry the attacks that he managed to avoid. Luffy has to fight in CQC with no such defense.


are you okay bro?
The bed rock is harder to break the Dazs body... do you know how much force luffy had to use to break the bed rock?
Did you forget how thick the bed rock was?
Do you not remember how far Croc was sent flying into the air while also breaking the bed rock at the same time?
I’m not going to lie, you’re being ignorant and passively ignoring feats. 
Zoro is the one who stands in the same spot blocking, tanking or deflecting attacks. That is not luffy.. luffy was dodging CP9 level speed in East blue, how the fuck are you going to tell us that Luffy is going to be punched around by Daz like zoro was? 

There is nothing you have other this Circular argument that Luffy is at disadvantage or weak against Daz but that’s not true at all, luffy is not at any disadvantage then Sanji or any person without a weapon would against Daz, he is not luffys worse enemy, fire or ice or most elemental based fruits would work better against luffy then a few blades.  And you’re other next argument is that Zoro couldn’t stop his attacks?
Again zoro is not luffy, you can go to the other thread, you guys can hope and pray using data books but there is a big difference in the story Oda wants to portray and the feats on panel and the fucking battledome. Either prove your point with feats or stop assuming that this and that would work because it fits your head cannon. 

You seem to have a problem with understanding that Daz was one shot, he was fucking 1 shorted by zoro, so if Luffys one punch goes through he feels it... land a bazooka and he is finished. 


Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Dude, it's just rock. Breaking rock isn't an impressive feat.



That is a complete lie that has been proven wrong and wrong again.

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## Beast (Mar 28, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Mate you can talk about Austria and whatever else you come up with a million more times that still doesn't mean that Luffy is physically stronger than Zoro or Daz Bones. Let alone Crocodile being stronger than them.


So, do you have something to prove that Zoro and Daz are stronger then liffy? 

Breaking the bed rock is more then enough to prove that luffy is far above them. 

Luffys east blue feats have his physical stats >> anything Daz has done.

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## Quipchaque (Mar 28, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> So, do you have something to prove that Zoro and Daz are stronger then liffy?
> 
> Breaking the bed rock is more then enough to prove that luffy is far above them.
> 
> Luffys east blue feats have his physical stats >> anything Daz has done.




No it isn't. The point of them stalemating in Whiskey peak was to show us that they are at worst nigh equal and they confirmed that with their comments. And the bedrock didn't get broken by sheer strength anyway. It was broken with devil fruit power and by attacking multiple times in rapid succession. Zoro on the other hand was almost effortlessly lifting a whole house and even threw it. Not only that but he is always shown doing things like this:




This:



And this:



Yet Mr 1 pushed Zoro back almost effortlessly. The same Zoro that stopped Luffy in Whiskey Peak. So you can tell me a lot of things but absolutely not that Luffy is suddenly physically stronger than Zoro or Daz. Let alone that even Crocodile surpasses their strength.

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## Conxc (Mar 28, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> are you okay bro?
> The bed rock is harder to break the Dazs body... do you know how much force luffy had to use to break the bed rock?
> Did you forget how thick the bed rock was?
> Do you not remember how far Croc was sent flying into the air while also breaking the bed rock at the same time?
> ...


Is bedrock harder than steel? That’s what matters here. You’re making it seem like Luffy punched him once and he just shot through the bedrock like a bullet through Sheetrock. Stop it. The repeated force of his punches broke through and once through the force pushed Croc outwards. Bedrock, as far as I know, isn’t harder than steel, so no, that isn’t good enough.

What CP9 level speed feats does *Alabasta *Luffy have? Let alone *East Blue *Luffy. Now you’re just making shit up. No matter what way you slice it, Luffy is a CQC fighter as is Daz. Unless his plan is to dodge everything and not attack until Daz gets tired, I don’t see how you expect for him to win the fight if all he’s doing is dodging. If he is fighting in CQC which he *has *to then he’s gonna sustain damage. More so than Zoro because Zoro has swords to block and parry attacks with. Luffy does not.



> There is nothing you have other this Circular argument that Luffy is at disadvantage or weak against Daz but that’s not true at all, luffy is not at any disadvantage then Sanji or any person without a weapon would against Daz, he is not luffys worse enemy, fire or ice or most elemental based fruits would work better against luffy then a few blades.  And you’re other next argument is that Zoro couldn’t stop his attacks?


You didn’t hear me say Luffy in particular is weak against him. Must have me mistaken. I said anyone at this point without swords or weapons to block with who *have *to fight in close quarters are gonna have a very hard time with Daz and that’s true. The Buzzsaw move is extremely good in CQC fights, especially against other CQC fighters.


> Again zoro is not luffy, you can go to the other thread, you guys can hope and pray using data books but there is a big difference in the story Oda wants to portray and the feats on panel and the fucking battledome. Either prove your point with feats or stop assuming that this and that would work because it fits your head cannon.


Whether you like it or not, they were portrayed to be comparable if not *equal *at this point. The data book supports it as well. Defeating Croc doesn’t change that since Luffy has no business beating him in the first place and needed a *ton *of plot help. On the other hand, losing to Daz doesn’t mean Luffy is weaker than Zoro. You guys seem to have that in the back of your minds which is why you can’t admit it. It’s simply a better matchup for Zoro than Luffy or Sanji. Smoker would probably defeat Daz too even without intang because of his Jutte. *Matchups matter*. Whether you wanna believe it or not.



> You seem to have a problem with understanding that Daz was one shot, he was fucking 1 shorted by zoro, so if Luffys one punch goes through he feels it... land a bazooka and he is finished.


So *now *you don’t know the difference between cutting attacks and blunt damage. Cutting attacks are more lethal. Cutting attacks cause more blood loss, etc. You can’t just assume that blunt force will yield the same results as getting your fucking chest cut open. Come on Beast.[/QUOTE]

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## Magentabeard (Mar 28, 2020)

Luffy keeps getting cut when he lands hits on Mr 1. Luffy gets sliced and diced, very high diff still.


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## Ren. (Mar 29, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> No it isn't. The point of them stalemating in Whiskey peak was to show us that they are at worst nigh equal and they confirmed that with their comments. And the bedrock didn't get broken by sheer strength anyway. It was broken with devil fruit power and by attacking multiple times in rapid succession. Zoro on the other hand was almost effortlessly lifting a whole house and even threw it. Not only that but he is always shown doing things like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many times do I need to debunk you guys?


vs





Zoro never was as strong as Luffy.

And a house has shit mass vs this:



And he was climbing 90 degrees on a beanstalk tall as a skyscraper LOL!


@MasterBeast  I suggest ignoring @Conxc  his arguments are recurrent and he ignores actual panels and what we have been saying for pages, now he goes again to the cut vs blunt force like he even knows that!

Zoro was not blocking shit, Mr1 got him several times, Luffy will dodge all of his attacks to the body as he usually did in any arc.

Zoro been equal to Luffy has been debunked in this thread many times the databook was debunked by the vivre cards and each arcs's  feats.


Don't fucking talk about plot were Zoro did zero damage vs MR1 and one shot with plot similar to Kakau and he survived vs Mihawk and Kuma in similar ways .with plot


blunt vs  cut was debunked and blunt is better on steel.

Ap was debunked town level vs building level for Zoro in alabasta.

I don't want to be disrespectuous but you guys admit that  you don't know and agree that you were wrong there and next post you guys reiterate the same point:

Zoro was as strong as Luffy: false they negated 2 moves, that was not a fight, Databook very debunked with Vivre cards and that was WP and in Alabasta shown better moves and a lot of BETTER AP!

Cut vs blunt, steel vs stell in a cut is meaningless, blunt of town level AP will work.

Mr1 did not activate blades on all body parts meaning he has blind spots aka non-sharp parts.

Hitting him with a bazooka on the head and finishing him with a storm when he is groggy will work.


Zoro has as much raw strength as Luffy, no he doesn't he has thrown a house, yeah Luffy climbs with a much higher mass of gold on a 90-degree skyscraper, he breaks two large buildings vs Zoro is stuck in a chimney and he needs his swords to break out.


all debunked :gitgud

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## Quipchaque (Mar 29, 2020)

Ren. said:


> How many times do I need to debunk you guys?
> 
> 
> vs
> ...



Just because you say you debunked stuff doesn't mean you did debunk stuff. 

Unless you can explain why Oda wanted to portray Luffy and Zoro physically matching each other and give us proof that Zoro can't replicate the feats like lifting the bell you won't get anywhere. Fact is that Zoro is a physical monster and I dunno if you realise but Zoro is lifting a weight of 4 tons with his feet while standing on his fingers. It is absolutely ridiculous that you try to put someone like that below Luffy based on things like a chimney and a trolling picture.


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## Ren. (Mar 29, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Just because you say you debunked stuff doesn't mean you did debunk stuff.
> 
> Unless you can explain why Oda wanted to portray Luffy and Zoro physically matching each other and give us proof that Zoro can't replicate the feats like lifting the bell you won't get anywhere. Fact is that Zoro is a physical monster and I dunno if you realise but Zoro is lifting a weight of 4 tons with his feet while standing on his fingers. It is absolutely ridiculous that you try to put someone like that below Luffy based on things like a chimney and a trolling picture.



Mate Oda never showed that this was my point, if that was the case, he would have shown him and as I said like 10 times WP is not proving that Zoro is equal to Luffy when at the end of that saga Luffy has town AP and Zoro is that the level of Arlong Luffy.

YOu don't understand that scene at all ....

All that Zoro has lifted pre-Ts is below Luffy bench pressing 2 building and walking with multiple tones of gold in Skypeea in 90 degrees.

As I said Zoro is a monster but compared to Luffy he looks like a  kid feat wise!

You can disagree, I don't care, the panels agree with me.

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## Beast (Mar 29, 2020)

Conxc said:


> Is bedrock harder than steel? That’s what matters here. You’re making it seem like Luffy punched him once and he just shot through the bedrock like a bullet through Sheetrock. Stop it. The repeated force of his punches broke through and once through the force pushed Croc outwards. Bedrock, as far as I know, isn’t harder than steel, so no, that isn’t good enough.
> 
> What CP9 level speed feats does *Alabasta *Luffy have? Let alone *East Blue *Luffy. Now you’re just making shit up. No matter what way you slice it, Luffy is a CQC fighter as is Daz. Unless his plan is to dodge everything and not attack until Daz gets tired, I don’t see how you expect for him to win the fight if all he’s doing is dodging. If he is fighting in CQC which he *has *to then he’s gonna sustain damage. More so than Zoro because Zoro has swords to block and parry attacks with. Luffy does not.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Gomu gomu storm broke apart Crocs attack, hit Croc, broke through the bedrock and sent him flying. 

The bed rock itself has some much more mass and volume, you don’t need to a rocket scientist to figure out why it is harder to break the bed rock metres in depth then it is to break steel the size a person. It should take no more then two brain cells to figure that out. Material does matter but so does Mass, volume and density, Daz is not harder then the bed rock, doesn’t matter if the attack is a Gatling of sorts that is still a singular attack. It is one attack, doesn’t matter if luffy has to spam punches when it is a single attack.

Luffy was reacting to Kuro in Ussops villages, he has been confirmed to have Soru like speed, just he couldn’t control it but luffy none the less was reacting to him by the end of their fight. 

Maybe you should use only feats we have seen, Daz turns his hand and legs to blades and the rest of his body to steel but never blades, he has never shown such mastery over his DF, so luffy does not need to dodge every attack, though he will... do you expect luffy to stand there and take hits he can dodge? Who do you take luffy for? And of course he will attack, maybe once or twice does he might hit a blades part of the body but we know and have seen that Daz does not turn his back or his head to blades,
Never on panel... you can guess and hope and use whatever logic you want to use but that much is fact, I don’t need to explain how the whole fight goes... just that luffy has way more then enough feats to pummel Daz into the ground. A few cheap cuts is not putting luffy down, it has before and it won’t now. 

Then there is no point in mentioning it if liffy is not particularly weak against it. But you did mention it... numerous times. 
Again, I keep telling you, you can consider whatever you want and use whatever it is you want. One Manga> SBS/ whatever the fuck is released, two feats> portrayal> hype, so no Zoro is not equal to luffy because of a little skirmish... do we know still in 2020 have to go through this? 
Unless you show us, Zoro reacting to Kuro in speed, or having the strength to send someone flying to another island with a punch, or smashing metal with just his grip or zoro surviving point blank explosions, should I keep going, you can find all these feats on reddit, it’s even laid out nicely for you with the panels to go with it. Zoro got the heads up by Oda but he has never shown the capabilities to beat luffy. Hey, maybe as kids when liffy couldn’t through a punch, maybe if you go that far back. 
You think everyone is worried about Zoro being equal to luffy, I wouldn’t mind that... but to say Luffy can’t beat Daz? Lol, yeah that ain’t sitting well with me, because it s a joke with nothing more then luffy is made out of rubber and Daz out of steel, fucking pathetic that we are still talking about this 15 fucking years later. 


Conch, do you want me to tell you how it feels to have your rib cage broken and lungs flattened? I think you keep going back and forth between real life and this fictional story, considering the amount of force and power Both Zoro and Iuffu, heck even Sanji can produce even back in EB, can’t be measured with just normal mindset, irl Zoro wouldn’t just cut your chest, he would cut you in half, Luffy won’t knock you out, he would probably punch through you and have his arm come out Your back. Zoro is lethal against flesh, not everything else. 


@DiscoZoro20 
Read the manga, I don’t need to go through luffy picking up houses, throwing around Sea kings, sending Buggy flying to another island, strength surpassing Arlong, go pick up one piece and start reading, even funnier that you are the one to say you don’t wanna see feats post Alabasta, yet there you are trying to sneak in a post Alabasta, not even that, a post EL feat, get out here man and learn to debate properly. 


@Ren. 
I’m kinda done with this anyway, no need to keep going back and forth with people who refuse to concede and accept the truth, the poll speaks for itself. They’ve got nothing more Blades hurt luffy.


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## Beast (Mar 29, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> give us proof that Zoro can't replicate the feats like lifting the bell you won't get anywhere.


Do people not know that it works the other way round? 

YOU have to show proof that Zoro can replicate such a feat, Did you really think you can ask for proof something that didn’t happen? 

This is the level that they want to bring this discussion to. 

@Ren. 
If I didn’t say I was done before, I am 100% done now. 
Good luck bruh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Mar 29, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Do people not know that it works the other way round?
> 
> YOU have to show proof that Zoro can replicate such a feat, Did you really think you can ask for proof something that didn’t happen?
> 
> ...



You are the one making the claim he can't even so Zoro has already proven before that he can compete with Luffy's strength. 

When these feats happened with Zoro's training is irrelevant. You won't convince anyone that he just started training like that and that he made these gains all of a sudden and conveniently just right after Alabasta. That is just a desperate downplay attempt from you. Besides my point with these pictures is not only to show you what strength he has but also that Oda himself goes out of his way all the time to show that so to pity him and pretend that he can't replicate Luffy's feats just because you say so is silly.



Ren. said:


> Mate Oda never showed that this was my point, if that was the case, he would have shown him and as I said like 10 times WP is not proving that Zoro is equal to Luffy when at the end of that saga Luffy has town AP and Zoro is that the level of Arlong Luffy.
> 
> YOu don't understand that scene at all ....
> 
> ...



The panels don't agree with you at all until you show us that Zoro didn't grow stronger. Your logic is just flawed. Apparantly everyone who doesn't replicate Luffy's feats 1 to 1 is weaker than Luffy physically. Hmm so I guess that makes pre-skip Whitebeard physically weaker than Luffy.


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## Ren. (Mar 29, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> The panels don't agree with you at all until you show us that Zoro didn't grow stronger. Your logic is just flawed. Apparantly everyone who doesn't replicate Luffy's feats 1 to 1 is weaker than Luffy physically. Hmm so I guess that makes pre-skip Whitebeard physically weaker than Luffy.


Sure because Wb Is from the main cast and has the second number of panels after Luffy!
I don't need to, you need to prove that Zoro can do that, I only need to show you the difference between the two and Zoro is not close and he never has shown pure strength, Luffy is a fist and kicks fighter, in no manga a sword user will be the same level of raw strength with the purely physical one that is Luffy, let alone he MC of the story.
Feats, portrait, and hype all for Luffy so there is no way those 2 to be equal.

No one in debating will ever show a negative, so no Zoro can't do what he hasn't shown it, or Luffy can one-shot Kaido because he never showed he can not!

If you want to debunk me bring the panels. Luffy has proven he can do X,  Zolo is below that.

Good day!

The last reply on non-argument like but you didn't show he can't or Luffy is weak vs swords etc.


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## Conxc (Mar 29, 2020)

@MasterBeast Not gonna lie, I didn’t read all that. The part where to you, reacting to *Kuro *= reacting to CP9 speed feats *heavily *deterred me from reading the rest. Like, wow. I know people bullshit a lot on here but...wow.... Anyway, we aren’t gonna agree on anything here apparently, but I will say this: if you think Oda sits there while drawing his manga and considers every square inch of a metric, comparing mass and density and all that shot, you’re mistaken. In Oda’s manga, if you can break/cut something *you can break/cut it*. Period. The irony is Oda has shown Zoro cutting steel even before Mr. 1 even though he wasn’t supposed to be able to. Obviously by accident. This is a manga where Zoro might cut through a 2 foot thick piece of stone like butter and cut a fucking mountain sized stone golem *the same*. Y’all are fucking ridiculous on this website. Zoro is living in your hearts, you minds and souls *rent free *where you can’t know a bad matchup when you see one because it’s an old Zoro opponent.


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## Ren. (Mar 29, 2020)

Conxc said:


> @MasterBeast Not gonna lie, I didn’t read all that. The part where to you, reacting to *Kuro *= reacting to CP9 speed feats *heavily *deterred me from reading the rest. Like, wow. I know people bullshit a lot on here but...wow.... Anyway, we aren’t gonna agree on anything here apparently, but I will say this: if you think Oda sits there while drawing his manga and considers every square inch of a metric, comparing mass and density and all that shot, you’re mistaken. In Oda’s manga, if you can break/cut something *you can break/cut it*. Period. The irony is Oda has shown Zoro cutting steel even before Mr. 1 even though he wasn’t supposed to be able to. Obviously by accident. This is a manga where Zoro might cut through a 2 foot thick piece of stone like butter and cut a fucking mountain sized stone golem *the same*. Y’all are fucking ridiculous on this website. Zoro is living in your hearts, you minds and souls *rent free *where you can’t know a bad matchup when you see one because it’s an old Zoro opponent.


Now you are projecting on us, don't like the site go to WG, there Zoro shits on Luffy because rubber is weak to the sword, now excuse my don't a fuck about your feelings about a fictional character!

Good day gent!

@MasterBeast I think we are done here.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 29, 2020)

Ren. said:


> Sure because Wb Is from the main cast and has the second number of panels after Luffy!
> I don't need to, you need to prove that Zoro can do that, I only need to show you the difference between the two and Zoro is not close and he never has shown pure strength, Luffy is a fist and kicks fighter, in no manga a sword user will be the same level of raw strength with the purely physical one that is Luffy, let alone he MC of the story.
> Feats, portrait, and hype all for Luffy so there is no way those 2 to be equal.
> 
> ...



Oooh so now it is about panel time? You are good at shifting goal posts. 

And when it is about Zoro it is about his feats. Hm how convenient.

Anyway glad that you concede that Whitebeard is weaker than pre-skip Luffy.


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## Ren. (Mar 29, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Oooh so now it is about panel time? You are good at shifting goal posts.
> 
> And when it is about Zoro it is about his feats. Hm how convenient.
> 
> Anyway glad that you concede that Whitebeard is weaker than pre-skip Luffy.


I was not shifting you are for the last 3 pots.

You are comparing a top tier that has shown he can shit an island in an instant to Zoro that did what without his swords?

That old man stopped a ship with one hand and he was daying, again when did Zoro do anything impressive without a sword pre or post TS?

You are just mad that we don't agree on Luffy been equal to Zoro, well he never was, not my problem.


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## Quipchaque (Mar 29, 2020)

Ren. said:


> I was not shifting you are for the last 3 pots.
> 
> You are comparing a top tier that has shown he can shit an island in an instant to Zoro that did what without his swords?
> 
> ...



Show me the feats that put Whitebeard above Luffy. And while you are at it show me the feats that put Alabasta Luffy in round 2 against Crocodile above Zoro.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Mar 31, 2020)

Luffy's firepower would get in his way.

There's a lack of evidence on whether he could viably tank physical strikes enhanced by a rubber fruit. The steel blades should bypass his physical body but shouldn't, the DF, so I'm betting on the strike failing midway, followed by a latex punch. 

Additionally, there's the overall strat disparity btw thier base capabilities that I believe the DF supplements. So it's a CGEW for me.


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## Ren. (Apr 1, 2020)

Sage light said:


> Luffy's firepower would get in his way.
> 
> There's a lack of evidence on whether he could viably tank physical strikes enhanced by a rubber fruit. The steel blades should bypass his physical body but shouldn't, the DF, so I'm betting on the strike failing midway, followed by a latex punch.
> 
> Additionally, there's the overall strat disparity btw thier base capabilities that I believe the DF supplements. So it's a CGEW for me.


Read the thread for once.

All have been debunked.

Mr1  will not land.

He has the AP to destroy steel and MR1 does not have blades on all his body!

Latex puch has a town level AP so yeah.


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 3, 2020)

Y’all cap. Zoro was equal to Luffy until enies lobby. Then when he acquired Shusui, it became extreme diff

Luffy still low to mid diffs though


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## zenit1234 (May 2, 2020)

Daz bones mid diffs unless durexman unlocks coa he ain t beating Daz


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## Ekkologix (May 3, 2020)

Luffy is countered but so he was vs crocodile. Luffy will just grab some stones or metal and use them for punching thats all. Gotta stop downplaying Luffy lol.

Luffy probably loses once tho like vs croc but likely wins 2nd time after using rocks/metal. So with knowledge start luffy wins.


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