# Big Mom and Katakuri vs Akainu and Garp



## Sumu (Jul 7, 2018)

Takes place in Marineford
30m
Intel: Rep 
Current versions

Meme won’t starve


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## Extravlad (Jul 7, 2018)

Kaido > Akainu > Garp > Bigmom. .

Yonkos by virtue of having the strongest individual.


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## savior2005 (Jul 7, 2018)

Extravlad said:


> Kaido > Akainu > Garp > Bigmom. .
> 
> Yonkos by virtue of having the strongest individual.


This match has Katakuri, NOT kaido.

OT: Marines win. Akainu>Big mom  and Garp>Katakuri


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## TheWiggian (Jul 7, 2018)

Marines got this, no contest.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 7, 2018)

Marines win convincingly. 

Much more overall quality then the pirates. 
Big Mom basically has to carry the weight by herself against two monster Marines.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 7, 2018)

Marines win 10/10. Either one of them can hold off Big Meme, while Katakuri either gets the Marco treatment from Garp, or gets magma fisted by Akainu.


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## Extravlad (Jul 7, 2018)

savior2005 said:


> This match has Katakuri, NOT kaido.
> 
> OT: Marines win. Akainu>Big mom  and Garp>Katakuri


Ah you're right.
Marines easily then, either of them beats Katakuri mid-high diffs and they destroy Bigmom together.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 8, 2018)

imo Akainu beats Big Mom and Katakuri beats Garp. Katakuri´s battle will probably end faster cause Garp definitely hasn´t the same level of stamina as either Big Mom or Akainu now. So in the end it comes down to Big Mom and Katakuri vs Akainu and I see the team win this.


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## charles101 (Jul 8, 2018)

Nothing indicated that Garp is significantly weaker post-TS. So you're making 2 top tiers vs 1 top tier and 1 high tier.

Is it low-key Mama-hate thread again?


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## Geralt-Singh (Jul 8, 2018)

Marines win high diff


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 8, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Katakuri beats Garp.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2018)

*Akainu solos extreme-diff*


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## Ruse (Jul 8, 2018)

Marines win, Kata is the weak link.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 8, 2018)

It's OK admiral wan*er no need to be salty that won't change my opinion.


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## Luke (Jul 8, 2018)

Akainu defeats Big Mom and Garp defeats Katakuri. Marines win.


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## trance (Jul 8, 2018)

either can beat meme and either can beat katakuri imo

marines 10/10

Reactions: Like 1


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## DoctorLaw (Jul 9, 2018)

Marines win. Garp or Akainu can solo Katakuri, and help down BM once they win.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 9, 2018)

Garp beats the shit out of Katakuri first & then enjoys Akainu win against Meme while eating crackers.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Atlantic Storm (Jul 9, 2018)

garp fists big mom and katakuri, then chokes akainu for killing ace


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## MO (Jul 9, 2018)

redrum said:


> either can beat meme and either can beat katakuri imo


you are actually fooling yourself if you think garp can best big mom.


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## Raiden34 (Jul 9, 2018)

Sixth Ranger said:


> *Current versions*



Garp is the weak link.

Team 1.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Jul 9, 2018)

That team of Garp and Akainu wins that match up in my opinion because both of those characters individually can hold their own against most of the Yonkou and both of those characters are > Lord Katakuri.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jul 9, 2018)

Garp gives katakuri a wedgie like the school yard bully he is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Jul 10, 2018)

MO said:


> you are actually fooling yourself if you think garp can best big mom.



more doubting? 

@Freechoice


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## TheWiggian (Jul 10, 2018)

redrum said:


> more doubting?
> 
> @Freechoice



Leave this traitor out.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 11, 2018)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Garp gives katakuri a wedgie like the school yard bully he is.



First you gotta prove he can actually hit Kata. The dude is gonna matrix around Garp like it´s nothing.


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## Amol (Jul 14, 2018)

Pretty one sided fight. 
Either marine can beat Big Mom and that is where result of fight gets decided. 
Katakuri will put admirable fight but he doesn't have what to take down any of marine. 
Basically Marines have both of the fighters stronger than others. 
High diff win I guess.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jul 14, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> First you gotta prove he can actually hit Kata. The dude is gonna matrix around Garp like it´s nothing.


I'll give you a B- for effort.


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## Amol (Jul 14, 2018)

Mr. Good vibes said:


> I'll give you a B- for effort.


First I thought you were replying to me and I was confused as why would you do that. 
Then I realized that you are talking with a guy who is on my SI.


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## ZE (Jul 14, 2018)

If current Garp is at least 50% of what he was in his prime, then maybe he alone could solo.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 14, 2018)

Mr. Good vibes said:


> I'll give you a B- for effort.



I´ll give you a W for who cares. Katakuri still matrix troll your little old man.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 14, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I´ll give you a W for who cares. Katakuri still matrix troll your little old man.


Idk how someone can be so out of touch with this series that they think someone luffy beat could “troll” Garp


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## MO (Jul 14, 2018)

redrum said:


> more doubting?
> 
> @Freechoice


what doubting? he cant.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 15, 2018)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Idk how someone can be so out of touch with this series that they think someone luffy beat could “troll” Garp



So basically in your opinion Garp is faster than Snakeman. Fanboys these days.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Jul 15, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> First you gotta prove he can actually hit Kata.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 15, 2018)

pretend some more. Katakuri has better observation haki, speed and certainly wouldn´t look away when Garp tries to attack him. Desperate as ever.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 15, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> So basically in your opinion Garp is faster than Snakeman. Fanboys these days.



You think Snakeman is faster then Garp?


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## Dunno (Jul 15, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You think Snakeman is faster then Garp?


He also thinks that Hakuba is faster than Akainu, and if that was not enough, he thinks that "The speed gap between Hakuba and Akainu is as vast as the ocean."


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## Gianfi (Jul 15, 2018)

Akainu> BM > Garp > Kata. Admirals win


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## Quipchaque (Jul 16, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You think Snakeman is faster then Garp?



LOL you think Garp is faster? Another fanboy detected. 



Dunno said:


> He also thinks that Hakuba is faster than Akainu, and if that was not enough, he thinks that "The speed gap between Hakuba and Akainu is as vast as the ocean."


Yeah I´m sure you can show me those wet dreams of teleporter Akainu and speedy gonzalez Garp.


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## Dunno (Jul 16, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> LOL you think Garp is faster? Another fanboy detected.
> 
> 
> Yeah I´m sure you can show me those wet dreams of teleporter Akainu and speedy gonzalez Garp.


Tell me, how would the marines have any chance of surviving if their strongest fighter was unable to keep up with a rookie pirate? How would they defend themselves if Katakuri alone attacked MF? Would they have any way of stopping him from wrecking their whole organisation? If Katakuri would have gone instead of the WB pirates, would he have defeated the marines?


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## TheWiggian (Jul 16, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Tell me, how would the marines have any chance of surviving if their strongest fighter was unable to keep up with a rookie pirate? How would they defend themselves if Katakuri alone attacked MF? Would they have any way of stopping him from wrecking their whole organisation? If Katakuri would have gone instead of the WB pirates, would he have defeated the marines?



Shit... Please stop bro


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## Raiden34 (Jul 16, 2018)

MF Garp couldn't even hurt Marco... How is he going to hurt Big Mom?

As for Akainu, he has no feats to suggest that he can actually hurt Big Mom, or moving as fast as Katakuri... Marines loses badly in here.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 16, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> LOL you think Garp is faster? Another fanboy detected.
> 
> 
> Yeah I´m sure you can show me those wet dreams of teleporter Akainu and speedy gonzalez Garp.



I am as sure that Garp is faster then Snakeman as i am that Sanji is faster then Zoro. 

Also you didnt refuet what he said. So you actually think hakuba is faster then akainu


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## Dunno (Jul 16, 2018)

TheWiggian said:


> Shit... Please stop bro


I just can't help it. 


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I am as sure that Garp is faster then Snakeman as i am that Sanji is faster then Zoro.
> 
> Also you didnt refuet what he said. So you actually think hakuba is faster then akainu


The quote is literal, so I would assume he actually thinks that Hakuba could blitz Akainu, and I would assume that that extends to other decently fast people like G2 Luffy, Doflamingo and Katakuri as well, since they should be no slower. Apparently, the only reason that the marines still exist is because every pirate worth their salt is too kind to casually obliterate them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jul 17, 2018)

Dunno said:


> Tell me, how would the marines have any chance of surviving if their strongest fighter was unable to keep up with a rookie pirate? How would they defend themselves if Katakuri alone attacked MF? Would they have any way of stopping him from wrecking their whole organisation? If Katakuri would have gone instead of the WB pirates, would he have defeated the marines?



Dude having the same movement speed is not the same as being able to keep up when will you fool realize that? Tell me who is faster Kuro or East Blue Luffy...Shadows Asgard Moria or Gear 2 Luffy....Franky or Fukuro? Kuro, Gear 2 Luffy, Fukuro is the answer. Yet the slower guys were always able to land hits despite that. Maybe you should reread those fights then you might be able to understand how Akainu would be able to keep up. I also must add it is awfully suspicious that you can´t bring up a single feat that actually counters my argument and only try talk about hypothetical scenarios to somehow create a fanfic that debunks my argument. I wonder what that tells us hmmmmm.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 17, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I am as sure that Garp is faster then Snakeman as i am that Sanji is faster then Zoro.
> 
> Also you didnt refuet what he said. So you actually think hakuba is faster then akainu



He most definitely is. Show me Garp´s amazing speed feats please or shut up? btw do you even realize that nubby Chinjao was able to react to Garp? faster than Hakuba and snakeman... nice joke!


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## Dunno (Jul 17, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Dude having the same movement speed is not the same as being able to keep up when will you fool realize that? Tell me who is faster Kuro or East Blue Luffy...Shadows Asgard Moria or Gear 2 Luffy....Franky or Fukuro? Kuro, Gear 2 Luffy, Fukuro is the answer. Yet the slower guys were always able to land hits despite that. Maybe you should reread those fights then you might be able to understand how Akainu would be able to keep up. I also must add it is awfully suspicious that you can´t bring up a single feat that actually counters my argument and only try talk about hypothetical scenarios to somehow create a fanfic that debunks my argument. I wonder what that tells us hmmmmm.


The difference wasn't "as vast as the ocean though". As vast as the ocean implies that the difference is pretty much as large as it can be, or at least as big as the one between the fodders in the last chapter and Luffy.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 17, 2018)

Dunno said:


> The difference wasn't "as vast as the ocean though". As vast as the ocean implies that the difference is pretty much as large as it can be, or at least as big as the one between the fodders in the last chapter and Luffy.



As I said just keep dreaming off teleporter Akainu and speedy garp. LOL


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> He most definitely is. Show me Garp´s amazing speed feats please or shut up? btw do you even realize that nubby Chinjao was able to react to Garp? faster than Hakuba and snakeman... nice joke!



lmao are you trying to insult chinjao. 

He has the best destructive feat in the manga and Garp was not even in his prime when he forced him into retirement. 

Blitzing Marco is better then anything hakuba or luffy has done


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## Raiden34 (Jul 17, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Blitzing* Marco is better then anything hakuba or luffy has done


*Sucker punching Marco.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> *Sucker punching Marco.



 

Sengoku and Garp were front and center along with the admirals with Ace.

Marco knew dame well where Garp was. As did everyone else.


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## Raiden34 (Jul 17, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sengoku and Garp were front and center along with the admirals with Ace.
> 
> Marco knew dame well where Garp was. As did everyone else.


Garp wasn't fighting and no one thought him as a danger until he sucker punched Marco.


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## Fel1x (Jul 17, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> MF Garp couldn't even hurt Marco... How is he going to hurt Big Mom?
> 
> As for Akainu, he has no feats to suggest that he can actually hurt Big Mom, or moving as fast as Katakuri... Marines loses badly in here.


As for Akainu I trully agree, but don't underestimate Garp.

Garp will finish Katakuri mid diff and then help Akainu to kill BM


And btw, it wasn't kill or damage intend punch on Marco. It was "back off" punch


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> Garp wasn't fighting and no one thought him as a danger until he sucker punched Marco.



No one thought The Hero of the Marines was a danger? 

So your counter arguement is that Marco is mentally retarded then?


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## Raiden34 (Jul 17, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No one thought The Hero of the Marines was a danger?


That explains why everyone surprised when Garp showed up. 



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So your counter arguement is that Marco is mentally retarded then?


No, Marco didn't expect Garp to fight to kill his own adopted grandson. Just like everyone else.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> That explains why everyone surprised when Garp showed up.
> 
> 
> No, Marco didn't expect Garp to fight to kill his own adopted grandson. Just like everyone else.



So your counter arguement is that Marco is mentally retarded then?


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## Raiden34 (Jul 17, 2018)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So your counter arguement is that Marco is mentally retarded then?


If you think everyone is mentally retarded in the battle, yeah.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 17, 2018)

Erkan12 said:


> If you think everyone is mentally retarded in the battle, yeah.



I don't but thats the arguement your presenting. 

If a pirate not named Roger thinks Garp the Fist is not a threat they are mentally retarded.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 17, 2018)

The person who used to fight Roger can't even touch Katakuri. 

And I thought I had seen everything shitty this forum has to offer.

All that remains is for Gohara to come & agree with these two.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 17, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> The person who used to fight Roger can't even touch Katakuri.
> 
> And I thought I had seen everything shitty this forum has to offer.
> 
> All that remains is for Gohara to come & agree with these two.



You have a Shanks set? What dark timeline did I stumble into?


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## Sherlōck (Jul 17, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> You have a Shanks set? What dark timeline did I stumble into?



Only a Yonko wanker think just cause someone else thinks Yonko~Admirals they must hate Yonko.

I like all the Yonko bar Meme of course.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 17, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> Only a Yonko wanker think just cause someone else thinks Yonko~Admirals they must hate Yonko.
> 
> I like all the Yonko bar Meme of course.



So am I a Yonko wanker now bigboy?

If someone tells me Arsenal is on the same level as Real Madrid, while wearing a Madrid t-shirt, I'm just going to assume they eat crayons  That's not wanking, it's just having realistic expectations about somebody.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 17, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> If someone tells me Arsenal is on the same level as Real Madrid, while wearing a Madrid t-shirt, I'm just going to assume they eat crayons  That's not wanking, it's just having realistic expectations about somebody.



It's more like someone saying Barca is on the same level as RM while wearing RM t-shirt. If they say otherwise then they are just eating crayons.


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## Raiden34 (Jul 17, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> The person who used to fight Roger can't even touch Katakuri.


Who would've thought WB becomes a joke and gets hit by his own underling, then gives a free shot to his enemy.

Who would've thought Rayleigh fails to overpower a Marine admiral and gets tired during the fight.

Who would've thought 500 M bounty Chinjao loses to G2/G3 Luffy.

Old Age has that effect, Garp is no exception.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 18, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> It's more like someone saying Barca is on the same level as RM while wearing RM t-shirt. If they say otherwise then they are just eating crayons.


The Yonkou fought a healthy WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Meanwhile a much weaker WB 2 shot the strongest admiral. They are not in any way comparable. Shanks showing up and making them all back down with only Akainu injured, should have given you people a further hint.

When bias is involved though ,people will make an Arsenal on the level of a Madrid.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 18, 2018)

You kids @Furinji Saiga  and @Sherlōck  can 'tier specialist' as much as you want. It doesn't chance the fact that for WB Oda had to make him a near corpse for admirals to contend with him, meanwhile he didn't have to nerf him at all for the Yonkou to clash with him multiple times.

Reactions: Like 1


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Jul 18, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> The Yonkou fought a healthy WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Meanwhile a much weaker WB 2 shot the strongest admiral. They are not in any way comparable. Shanks showing up and making them all back down with only Akainu injured, should have given you people a further hint.
> 
> When bias is involved though ,people will make an Arsenal on the level of a Madrid.



you do realize that whitebeard needed a sneak attack to even land a hit on any of the admirals,in 1vs 1 without distraction,he struggled to land a hit on any one of them.

Hell even after sneak shotting an admiral while bloodlusted,he lost half his face.
the admirals backed off because sengoku ordered them to because fight even more against a yonkos would unneccesary deaths of marines


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## TheWiggian (Jul 18, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> The Yonkou fought a healthy WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Meanwhile a much weaker WB 2 shot the strongest admiral. They are not in any way comparable. Shanks showing up and making them all back down with only Akainu injured, should have given you people a further hint.
> 
> When bias is involved though ,people will make an Arsenal on the level of a Madrid.



When WB met Ace he was already on life support. Yet those Yonkou couldn't take him down.


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## Kurohige (Jul 18, 2018)

Big Mom and Akainu should be around the same caliber while I think it's shown that the Gap Between Garp and Akainu is smalller then Katakuri and Big Mom. Also experience wise the Marines has the advance.

Hard / Very hard diff Win for the Marines.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 18, 2018)

TheWiggian said:


> When WB met Ace he was already on life support. Yet those Yonkou couldn't take him down.



Lol still shouting that nonsense. I repeat what I said in the other thread which you had no rebuttal at all for other then "uuuuuh you noe reeding compprenhshion". The strongest currently is still a yonko and that whole troll argument comes crashing down. Thanks for offering me to humiliate you again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jul 18, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> The life support stabilised his condition. He could still use haki and clash at WSM power. We see this with him avoiding over 100 attempts at his life by Ace and splitting the heavens with Shanks.
> 
> With admirals though, Oda made him* take off the life support*. We know that he could have fought with it given Marco's statement that he was taking it off for pride, not because he couldn't fight with it. This resulted in heart attacks, barely any haki and free shots because of his heart attacks etc. Still 2 shot Akainu . If he had had his CoO or CoA and dodged the meigo or hardened his face it would have been a clean fodderisation.
> 
> Any child can see the vast difference between the two. But when you're an admiral fan, you have to pretend to be illiterate .



Exactly that's all we know about him, preventing Ace to take his life and clashing with Shanks without using the gura.

Battling for territory and scared of losing military might prevented them for all out battles. Maybe WB fought them with life support hanging on his body without the gura.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 18, 2018)

Sherlōck said:


> The person who used to fight Roger can't even touch Katakuri.
> 
> And I thought I had seen everything shitty this forum has to offer.
> 
> All that remains is for Gohara to come & agree with these two.



Yeah sure go ahead and w*nk away without even using a single brain cell. *USED TO *is the key word here. Don´t tell me you are ignorant enough to actually believe current Garp is anywhere near his old level. Also noone even said anything of "him not touching Katakuri at all" but I guess you must create as many hyperboles as possible to make the opposition look inferior. Katakuri being able to absolutely troll Garp with his superior speed and observation has nothing to do with coming out unharmed of a battle that´s just you being butthurt and reading too much into what I said.

@Donquixote Doflamingo 
and you seem to be another special snowflake that needs extra IQ donated. Someone having super high destructive capability does not make him super-fast. Chinjao is the same dude that fought on par with G2 and G3 luffy just saying. So for you to believe that Garp who can´t blitz that same Chinjao to be on par with Snakeman or Katakuri in speed is just...


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## TheWiggian (Jul 18, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Lol still shouting that nonsense. I repeat what I said in the other thread which you had no rebuttal at all for other then "uuuuuh you noe reeding compprenhshion". The strongest currently is still a yonko and that whole troll argument comes crashing down. Thanks for offering me to humiliate you again.



Funny how you can provide nothing that supports your case :WOW

Fact remains that Kaido title that supports the Yonkou is accepted by the fangirls but Mihawks get disputed because he is a Shichibukai and makes the Yonkou look bad confirming him to be > one of them.



These girls these days don't know who to love, Edward or Jacob.


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## Sherlōck (Jul 18, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> The Yonkou fought a healthy WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Meanwhile a much weaker WB 2 shot the strongest admiral. They are not in any way comparable. Shanks showing up and making them all back down with only Akainu injured, should have given you people a further hint.



I am not getting into this shit fest with you again. Just going to wait 10 more years for Oda to show who is right. 



> When bias is involved though ,people will make an Arsenal on the level of a Madrid.



You have an unhealthy obsession with Arsenal. What happened? Did an Arsenal fan stole your GF or something?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 18, 2018)

Whaaaaat? Akainu is stronger than Big Mom and so is Garp in my opinion. Everyone here can whallop Katakuri. 
The marines stomp this matchup.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 19, 2018)

What can Akainu even do to BM? Unlike WB she is a hard balloon and can use CoA. Not only that but she is much stronger physically. In CqC he gets demolished. He can't even run away and spam AoE because she can easily catch up.

I also imagine Katakuri would be able to tank Garp's hits long enough or stall until BM finishes Akainu off.



TheWiggian said:


> Exactly that's all we know about him, preventing Ace to take his life and clashing with Shanks without using the gura.
> 
> Battling for territory and scared of losing military might prevented them for all out battles. Maybe WB fought them with life support hanging on his body without the gura.



Like I said you people deliberately block out the implications. WB on life support was introduced as WSM. That guy had CoO on the level that he could avoid attacks in his sleep. MF WB couldn't do it while awake. Any idiot can see what a vast difference that is. IF he had that CoO at MF then Aokiji would be dead and Akainu would not have taken a third of his head off while getting 2 shot.

That is just speculation on your part. The way Law spoke it wasn't just small little skirmishes. In any event they might have even fought for territory before he put on the machines. The machines kept him in WSM state in any event.

You're just running away from the fact that the Yonkou fought WSM WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Admirals fought a WB that could barely use haki and had heart attacks. That's the level Oda had to put him on for admirals.


Sherlōck said:


> I am not getting into this shit fest with you again. Just going to wait 10 more years for Oda to show who is right.


You have nothing to say in any event. Yonkou clashed with WSM WB. The strongest admiral got two shot by a vastly weaker WB. Delay your delusions for 10 years I don't care.





Sherlōck said:


> You have an unhealthy obsession with Arsenal. What happened? Did an Arsenal fan stole your GF or something?


It's a shot at @Admiral Kizaru  who supports that garbage team


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## TheWiggian (Jul 19, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> Like I said you people deliberately block out the implications. WB on life support was introduced as WSM. That guy had CoO on the level that he could avoid attacks in his sleep. MF WB couldn't do it while awake. Any idiot can see what a vast difference that is. IF he had that CoO at MF then Aokiji would be dead and Akainu would not have taken a third of his head off while getting 2 shot.
> 
> That is just speculation on your part. The way Law spoke it wasn't just small little skirmishes. In any event they might have even fought for territory before he put on the machines. The machines kept him in WSM state in any event.



Well actually that is all just speculation from you. There are no feats of the Yonkou doing all this except in your text. Would be cool if Law's little story had some small flashbacks for evidence, otherwise this is just another legendary duels between Mihawk and Shanks, that no one here takes serious and it came from WB himself.



Seraphoenix said:


> You're just running away from the fact that the Yonkou fought WSM WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Admirals fought a WB that could barely use haki and had heart attacks. That's the level Oda had to put him on for admirals.



Well, why should i run from something that is on panel while your dear Yonkou only have stories behind them? I prefer to go with what's been shown, ofc there are some things you have to scale based on something but the Emperors only consist of those stories and scales. No one would've thought how pathetic Big Mom's display was. Yet stories going on about here were legendary before it happened.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 19, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> What can Akainu even do to BM?


Dude, youre arguing that Big Mom is legit invincible and wont take damage from other Top Tiers?



> Not only that but she is much stronger physically. In CqC he gets demolished. He can't even run away and spam AoE because she can easily catch up.


What? How can you say Big Mom is physically stronger than Akainu? Whats this based on?

Akainu should be able to hard sell Zeus and Prometheus.
Clouds are just water vapor so Akainu should be able to vaporize Zeus. Akainu's fruit places him in a position of superiority to fire so Big Moms super mode where she lights her hair and sword on fire won't be effective and Prometheus is also getting a giant magma fist puched through him.


> I also imagine Katakuri would be able to tank Garp's hits long enough or stall until BM finishes Akainu off.


How is Big Mom quickly finishing Akainu? With what abilities can she drop him?
And lol at banking on Katakuri's stamina. He could only withstand around 20 punches from Gear 4 but he's going to just hold strong and go the distance against the guy who became a Yonku caliber fighter based purely on his physical ability and punching power? I dont think so.


> You're just running away from the fact that the Yonkou fought WSM WB for territory and didn't get two shot. Admirals fought a WB that could barely use haki and had heart attacks. That's the level Oda had to put him on for admirals.


few things:
1- Stop making shit up. We don't know how any fights between Yonku went. All we know is that Whitebeard was the undisputed strongest on the planet.
2- Losing to Whitebeard is not a knock considering his undiminished fruit power and the fact that everyone alive on the planet would have fallen to him.
3- Whitebeard was weakened from heart attacks and the backstab yes but the Admirals were trolling the shit out of him as well. He only managed to hit an Admiral by way of sneak attack and only dropped him using the most powerful move he ever showed......ever. Oh and he  took a mortal injury to accomplish this.
4- Akainu after taking the most powerful move from the most powerful man got up and matched a Yonku First Mate who had significant backup, no sweat. Big Mom was getting tossed around by Jinbe and trolled by the likes of Brooke. Notice how the OP felt the need to remove her biggest weakness to make the right more fair? Yeah.


Shiba D. Inu said:


> *Akainu solos extreme-diff*


My man! I almost agree.


redrum said:


> either can beat meme and either can beat katakuri imo
> 
> marines 10/10


Agreed 100%


Sherlōck said:


> Garp beats the shit out of Katakuri first & then enjoys Akainu win against Meme while eating crackers.





DiscoZoro20 said:


> First you gotta prove he can actually hit Kata. The dude is gonna matrix around Garp like it´s nothing.


Garp hit Marco. Base Luffy hit Katakuri. Come on now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Anza (Jul 20, 2018)

Marines win pretty easily


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## A Optimistic (Jul 21, 2018)

Akainu can win on his own. We saw him avoid Marco, Vista and Curiel's attacks so Katakuri can't even touch him.

Which means it's just Big Mom versus Akainu and Akainu obviously wins this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Jul 24, 2018)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Whats this based on?



Being able to easily one shot characters like John Giant without Haki and a Devil Fruit whereas John Giant is capable of getting up from a haki quake technique after that arc and Akainu's physical strength is less impressive than Whitebeard's.  Akainu is amazingly physically strong however feats wise doesn't seem to be in the same league as most of the yonkou in physical strength.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Akainu should be able to hard sell Zeus and Prometheus.



How so?  Jinbe suggests that not even he who has great defense can do anything to a non-fully powered Prometheus.  I get that Akainu is basically lava however that doesn't necessarily suggest that fire has no effect on him.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Clouds are just water vapor so Akainu should be able to vaporize Zeus.



Assuming that it works that way in One Piece a series which consistently ignores our earth's physics.  Also Zeus is able to be used from long distance so Zeus doesn't necessarily have to be within proximity to Akainu.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How is Big Mom quickly finishing Akainu?



Big Mam is significantly more impressive in physical strength than Whitebeard who significantly wounds Akainu with 2 techniques.  I'm not sure that Big Mam bests Akainu that easily however it's not like Big Mam would require a lot of techniques to win that match up.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> He could only withstand around 20 punches from Gear 4



Isn't that a lot?  I agree that Old Garp is > Lord Katakuri however.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> undiminished fruit power



I'm not sure about that.  I see no reason why Devil Fruit would be excluded in nerfed abilities as using those abilities is dependent on things that we know that being nerfed effects such as energy and physical strength.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> and the fact that everyone alive on the planet would have fallen to him.



We don't know that Whitebeard's title is including being nerfed and it's unlikely that it is because it would seem rather unreasonable to take away a title because of temporary nerfedness.  It's not like there is some automatic title switcher that automatically switches to other characters so the public would have to be aware of extensive details of the nerfedness to even think about switching that title to other characters.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 24, 2018)

Gohara said:


> Being able to easily one shot characters like John Giant without Haki and a Devil Fruit whereas John Giant is capable of getting up from a haki quake technique after that arc and Akainu's physical strength is less impressive than Whitebeard's.  Akainu is amazingly physically strong however feats wise doesn't seem to be in the same league as most of the yonkou in physical strength.


Truly I'm not sure how John Giant is relevant at all.

Big Mom and Akainu don't have enough raw strength feats against comparable foes for any real conclusions.
Akainu never seemed inferior to Whitebeard in strength though and was able to parry his Gura powered bisento swing without issue.



> How so?


Keep reading....


> I get that Akainu is basically lava however that doesn't necessarily suggest that fire has no effect on him.


It doesn't but the story implies as much. Akainu's natural superiority is how he no sold and burned Ace. What's stopping Akainu from punching Prometheus into oblivion when he tries to drop on him?


> Assuming that it works that way in One Piece a series which consistently ignores our earth's physics.  Also Zeus is able to be used from long distance so Zeus doesn't necessarily have to be within proximity to Akainu.


Yes, heat vaporizes water and turns it to steam in one piece....this shouldnt be in question. Akainu can attack from a range and on a massive scale as we've seen. What ranged moves has Big Mom shown with Zeus?

Also, you know what's crazy? Big Mom doesn't have a Zeus so he is a nonfactor regardless.


> Big Mam is significantly more impressive in physical strength than Whitebeard


There's no way for us to know how the two stack up.


> who significantly wounds Akainu with 2 techniques.


Which was not done with pure physical strength, was a cheap shot, and which cost Whitebeard half his head.


> I'm not sure that Big Mam bests Akainu that easily however it's not like Big Mam would require a lot of techniques to win that match up.


She doesn't need a lot of techniques. What she's shown isn't good enough though.


> Isn't that a lot?


No and especially not when we have characters fighting for days.


> I'm not sure about that.  I see no reason why Devil Fruit would be excluded in nerfed abilities as using those abilities is dependent on things that we know that being nerfed effects such as energy and physical strength.


Fair.


> We don't know that Whitebeard's title is including being nerfed and it's unlikely that it is because it would seem rather unreasonable to take away a title because of temporary nerfedness.  It's not like there is some automatic title switcher that automatically switches to other characters so the public would have to be aware of extensive details of the nerfedness to even think about switching that title to other characters.


Im not going to argue that Whitebeard didnt deserve his title (thats silliness).
However I will point out that Whitebeard's age was not a secret and anyone who visited could see him hooked to medical equipment.


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## Gohara (Jul 25, 2018)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> I'm not sure how John Giant is relevant at all.



Big Mam is capable of one shotting legendary giant characters without haki and a devil fruit.  John Giant is capable of getting up from a haki and quake technique from Whitebeard after the war.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Akainu never seemed inferior to Whitebeard in strength



Even if that is true which I don't necessarily agree with Akainu also doesn't show any superiority to a nerfed version of Whitebeard.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> It doesn't but the story implies as much. Akainu's natural superiority is how he no sold and burned Ace.



Akainu overpowers however doesn't necessarily no sell Ace's fire.  I agree that Akainu's lava is > Ace's fire.  However that isn't necessarily the same thing as Akainu being invincible against fire especially when a non-fully powered Prometheus dwarfs giants characters.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> What's stopping Akainu from punching Prometheus into oblivion when he tries to drop on him?



A non-fully powered version of Prometheus is significantly larger than dai funka no?  Not that it necessarily suggests that Prometheus is superior.  We have no way of comparing Prometheus to dai funka.  However there is also no reason to assume that dai funka can overpower Prometheus simply because it can overpower a significantly less quantity of fire from a significantly inferior character.

However I also wouldn't find it strange if Akainu's lava is superior specifically to Prometheus.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Yes, heat vaporizes water and turns it to steam in one piece



However it is more complex than that because clouds aren't only water and nothing else and that's not including any other variables that would come into play from it being a unique cloud.  Also using that same reasoning Ace's devil fruit would basically make Aokiji's devil fruit irrelevant which I also don't agree with.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Akainu can attack from a range and on a massive scale as we've seen.



True however zeus can also move at great speed and simply dodge Akainu's lava.  That also assumes that Akainu would be able to focus entirely on zeus.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> What ranged moves has Big Mom shown with Zeus?



Lightning is basically naturally an element for long range techniques.  It would be like asking how God Enel would use long range techniques before we've seen him use those techniques.  We have also seen zeus used that way.  From both a visual of zeus being used with the enraged army and Nami using tempo from zeus.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Big Mom doesn't have a Zeus so he is a nonfactor regardless.



There are no rules against simply creating a new zeus.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Which was not done with pure physical strength



True however that isn't the only variable that would come into play as Big Mam can beef up techniques with devil fruit techniques.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> was a cheap shot



I respectfully disagree however that doesn't really matter much because I'm simply commenting on the prowess of a yonkou with incredible physical strength and a high ranking devil fruit.  Akainu dodging techniques is another discussion.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No and especially not when we have characters fighting for days.



Gear 4th is one of the most impressive forms in prowess in the series, I'm not sure that any character can withstand around 20+ techniques from Gear 4th and continue matching up for days.  However that is debatable and not really one of the main points since we agree that Old Garp is > Lord Katakuri.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Im not going to argue that Whitebeard didnt deserve his title (thats silliness).



I'm not suggesting that Whitebeard doesn't deserve his title.  On the contrary I'm suggesting that it would seem unfair to change that title to another character based on temporary nerfedness simply because other characters could be superior to that nerfed version of a character.  Other variables also come into play such as what characters know about current versions of those characters.  Whitebeard suggests that it's been decades since he's seen Sengoku.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 25, 2018)

Gohara said:


> Big Mam is capable of one shotting legendary giant characters without haki and a devil fruit.  John Giant is capable of getting up from a haki and quake technique from Whitebeard after the war.


There's no way to compare John Giant to the elder giants.


> Akainu also doesn't show any superiority to a nerfed version of Whitebeard.


Okay.



> Akainu overpowers however doesn't necessarily no sell Ace's fire.  I agree that Akainu's lava is > Ace's fire.  However that isn't necessarily the same thing as Akainu being invincible against fire especially when a non-fully powered Prometheus dwarfs giants characters.


I don't know that Akainu is immune to fire damage but he is clearly strong towards it and should be able to hit Prometheus as he could Ace. Prometheus' size isnt a problem considering the scale that Akainu can attack on.



> A non-fully powered version of Prometheus is significantly larger than dai funka no?  Not that it necessarily suggests that Prometheus is superior.  We have no way of comparing Prometheus to dai funka.  However there is also no reason to assume that dai funka can overpower Prometheus simply because it can overpower a significantly less quantity of fire from a significantly inferior character.


Brooke injured Prometheus. Jinbe sat him out of battle with one attack. Akainu attacks on a much greater scale and with more power.



> However it is more complex than that because clouds aren't only water and nothing else and that's not including any other variables that would come into play from it being a unique cloud.


Complex? What particles in clouds would make them resistant to magma?



> Also using that same reasoning Ace's devil fruit would basically make Aokiji's devil fruit irrelevant which I also don't agree with.


That's not the same reasoning considering Zeus isn't composed of a fruit power. He is a cloud animated by a fruit power. For example compare Crackers biscuits to the animated food regularly eaten at Whole Cake.



> Lightning is basically naturally an element for long range techniques.


Please show me Big Mom attacking from a distance with Zeus.


> There are no rules against simply creating a new zeus.


....Yes and especially since she hasn't even managed it in story. We cannot just make up abilities. We dont know if Big Mom has more of her soul to share, what the process entails, and if shes even fast enough to gather clouds (!) and animate them mid battle.


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## GilDLax (Jul 26, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yeah sure go ahead and w*nk away without even using a single brain cell. *USED TO *is the key word here. Don´t tell me you are ignorant enough to actually believe current Garp is anywhere near his old level.
> 
> Chinjao is the same dude that fought on par with G2 and G3 luffy just saying. So for you to believe that Garp who can´t blitz that same Chinjao to be on par with Snakeman or Katakuri in speed is just...


You just said Garp is old so he's not that strong anymore. So you should know Chinjao also got old and is not as strong as he was. Why treated OldChinjao's speed vs G2Luffy as if that was his speed when he fought Garp? O__O
...
You cannot have it both ways...


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## Gohara (Jul 26, 2018)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> There's no way to compare John Giant to the elder giants.



We know that John Giant is a Vice Admiral and that Yorle is a legendary character on the most powerful island in the series.  Therefore it is very likely that Yorle is superior to John Giant.  However assuming that Yorle is 1/4th the rank that John Giant is it still makes Big Mam's feat seem more impressive because that's without haki and a devil fruit.  Obviously Yorle is almost certainly no where near only 1/4th of John Giant's rank so that's a bonus.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> I don't know that Akainu is immune to fire damage but he is clearly strong towards it



To me that clash more so is suggesting that lava wins against fire without any points being made as to the effectiveness of fire vs. lava.  However it isn't unreasonable that Akainu has more resistance to fire than fire has to lava.  So fair on that.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> and should be able to hit Prometheus as he could Ace.



Ace is a lot smaller than Prometheus and Ace is significantly inferior to a Yonkou.  Thus does that feat translate to Prometheus?



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Prometheus' size isnt a problem considering the scale that Akainu can attack on.



Dai Funka is one of Akainu's largest techniques and if I remember correctly it is significantly inferior in size to Prometheus.  Akainu using techniques that are larger than Dai Funka is a reasonable possibility however.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Brooke injured Prometheus. Jinbe sat him out of battle with one attack. Akainu attacks on a much greater scale and with more power.



That's prior to when Big Mam powers up Prometheus more.  A superior version of Prometheus has Jinbe suggesting that he can't do anything against Prometheus despite his rank and it being water vs. fire.  That is also a non-fully powered version of Prometheus because of being nerfed in that arc.  Thus Prometheus at full power should be > the version of Prometheus that dwarfs Dai Funka and has Jinbe suggesting that he can't do anything against it.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Complex? What particles in clouds would make them resistant to magma?



It's not that there are particles resistant to magma as much as it's not only water as your previous points are suggesting.  Plus there is also the soul of a yonkou within that cloud making it a trickier point to prove.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> That's not the same reasoning considering Zeus isn't composed of a fruit power. He is a cloud animated by a fruit power.



What I'm suggesting is that if in One Piece fire always turns water into steam that should also apply to fire vs. ice and yet I don't think that Ace is superior to Aokiji or that the fire fruit is superior to the ice fruit.

As for your point on Zeus, I can just as easily ask for you to show me a panel of Akainu burning Prometheus and if you can't he automatically can't do it.  The difference is that there is no reason to assume one way or the other if Akainu can do that or not whereas lightning universally has long range techniques and Zeus has also been used for long range techniques and shown visually as striking lightning from the sky.  There basically is proof that Zeus can be used at long range and lightning universally has long range techniques.  If we need to literally see a yonkou use Zeus specifically for that for that to be considered in a discussion then basically every point in this discussion on both sides would be completely irrelevant.



Oberyn Nymeros said:


> We cannot just make up abilities.



Moriah needing to make create another zombie when one of the zombies is bested isn't a made up ability and the soul fruit is basically a superior version of the shadow fruit.  Plus looking at the basis of what the soul fruit is it wouldn't make any sense for a character to not be able to disperse more of their energy into another object when that character has more energy than almost every other character in the series.  Using that basically implies that the soul fruit can't even be used at all in that match up.  If another zeus can't be created then that suggests that there isn't enough energy to create anything else which doesn't make sense.  

That being said it isn't necessarily that relevant of a point.  Even if zeus is restricted I doubt that it would create an edge for pre time skip Akainu.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jul 26, 2018)

ray who was more or less retired could keep up with the character with the best claim(currently) to fastest in the series. garp stayed active. unless you think ray is just that much faster than garp, or that kata is faster than kizaru, he should be able to keep up just fine.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jul 26, 2018)

Gohara said:


> Therefore it is very likely that Yorle is superior to John Giant.


No it isnt. Being famous is not indicative of relative power levels (Jinbe isn't equal to Fisher Tiger for example). That the old giant lost to a 5 year old indicates he is much weaker actually.


> Ace is a lot smaller than Prometheus and Ace is significantly inferior to a Yonkou.  Thus does that feat translate to Prometheus?


Yes. Was my stance not clear?
Side note, Prometheus is not Yonku level.



> Dai Funka is one of Akainu's largest techniques and if I remember correctly it is significantly inferior in size to Prometheus.


Why does Akainu need an attack larger than Prometheus?



> Thus Prometheus at full power should be > the version of Prometheus that dwarfs Dai Funka and has Jinbe suggesting that he can't do anything against it.


Luckily, Akainu > Jinbe.



> It's not that there are particles resistant to magma as much as it's not only water as your previous points are suggesting.  Plus there is also the soul of a yonkou within that cloud making it a trickier point to prove.


Yeah its pretty much just water particles so Akainu would run through him. I wont discuss any further since Big Mom doesn't even own Zeus.


> What I'm suggesting is that if in One Piece fire always turns water into steam that should also apply to fire vs. ice and yet I don't think that Ace is superior to Aokiji or that the fire fruit is superior to the ice fruit.


You lost me. What does water having a boiling point matter to Aokijis freezing powers?


> I can just as easily ask for you to show me a panel of Akainu burning Prometheus and if you can't he automatically can't do it.


 Akainu already burned a dude made of fire because of magu's superiority. Not much of a supposition to say he can also burn through another being made of fire.


> lightning universally has long range techniques


i have yet to see Minks shoot lightning long range.



> Moriah *snip*


Moriah is not Big Mom. We know nothing of Big Moms personal soul sharing. I won't argue the point further.


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## Gohara (Jul 27, 2018)

Being legendary isn't specifically the argument.  Sure legendary characters in East Blue for example aren't necessarily superior to most Vice Admirals.  Being legendary characters in Elbaf is a completely different story however.  Elbaf Island is not only revered as being the most powerful island in the series it's also an island that the world government actively attempts not to be in a war against them.  Skilled enough to be legendary on the most powerful island in the series that the world government wants to avoid going to war against.  However not skilled enough to even be a Vice Admiral?  I'm unclear on what you mean with that Fisher Tiger example.  We basically know nothing about how skilled Fisher Tiger is and Fishman Island is an island that pre time skip supernova ranking characters can challenge.  Elbaf Island is significantly more impressive in portrayal.  There is also no reason to assume that Fisher Tiger is inferior to Vice Admirals so I'm not sure what you mean?

I'm sure that Oda having Yorle bested against a barely more than a toddler character isn't to insult Yorle.  Oda is showing an amazing feat which is why he specifically hypes up Yorle and Elbaf before having a barely more than a toddler version of a yonkou wreck a significant portion of Elbaf in a chapter portraying the natural born abilities of that character.

Okay so what evidence is there that burning fire on a significantly inferior scale from a significantly inferior character translates to being able to do the same to that superior version?  Prometheus itself isn't yonkou ranking like how Ace's fire itself isn't some automatic rank.  However Prometheus is powered from a character significantly superior to Ace thus I don't see how besting a technique from an inferior character translates to doing the same to a superior character.

You said that based on the scale of Akainu's techniques.  If it isn't about size then what do you mean when you say the scale of Akainu's techniques and how are you ranking the scale?

True Akainu is > Jinbe however my point is that we don't even know what Prometheus' limit is because Prometheus is individually capable of having Jinbe suggest that and Jinbe is the highest ranking character that we've seen match up against Prometheus.  That is also a non-fully powered version of Prometheus.  Ace even with his own skills and fire combined aren't enough to make Jinbe suggest that.  Heck Jinbe isn't of the opinion that he can't do anything against Akainu's lava as he attempts to defend against it and does so temporarily.  Jinbe wouldn't attempt to even defend against Prometheus at it's largest shown scale thus far.  However again that isn't to suggest that Prometheus is > Akainu's lava.  I have no idea exactly how their abilities would interact.  However with what we've seen from Prometheus I see no reason to automatically assume that Akainu would do anything near no selling it and that Akainu's lava is superior.

Clouds can be and are sometimes made from particles that aren't simply water.  We also know little to nothing about how our Earth compares to One Piece's atmosphere and even assuming that everything is the same there is also a yonkou's soul in that entity.

Fire is more than capable of melting ice and turning it to water so I don't see why the same argument wouldn't simply apply to fire vs. ice.

There is more evidence that lightning works at long range than that one character's fire is automatically equal to another character's fire in potency.  Especially when a character like Jinbe wants to avoid matching up against Prometheus and yet has no issue matching up against Ace.  Electrical moon is capable of aoe.  There is also more evidence of zeus using lightning at long range than electro because again zeus is shown striking lightning to the ground in visuals of the enraged army when the enraged army is initially introduced.  Also there is a feat of zeus being used at long range when tempo is used with zeus.  Plus electro is channeled through a character's body rather than from an external weapon.  It is also a basically definable trait of lightning that it strikes at long range.  We know that homies are created through distributing energy so if a character using those abilities still has energy how would they not be able to create more homies?


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## Quipchaque (Aug 3, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> You just said Garp is old so he's not that strong anymore. So you should know Chinjao also got old and is not as strong as he was. Why treated OldChinjao's speed vs G2Luffy as if that was his speed when he fought Garp? O__O
> ...
> You cannot have it both ways...



Because it makes absolutely no sense to assume that Chinjao would drop so many subtiers at once that he would go from above Katakuri level speed to something much slower. There is no basis for that at all and it would be akin to saying Rayleigh is now pacifista level speed or something which we know is definitely not true.


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## GilDLax (Aug 3, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Because it makes absolutely no sense to assume that Chinjao would drop so many subtiers at once that he would go from above Katakuri level speed to something much slower. There is no basis for that at all and it would be akin to saying Rayleigh is now pacifista level speed or something which we know is definitely not true.


His best weapon (head drill) is gone. He couldn't open the ice continent. His spirit dropped drastically and that's why he hated Garp so much. I don't see why it's impossible to lose form so badly. 

On the other hand, it also makes no sense to think his speed was still the same because clearly he got older and weaker. He did say that. And if WB, Rayleigh and Garp could not resist Nature call then how could Chinjao?

Finally, if Chinjao's speed didn't drop, then you mean PrimeGarp is slower than Katakuri? Because the time Garp beat Chinjao should be close to when he fought Roger.


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## Vivo Diez (Aug 4, 2018)

Akainu can stall BM while Garp beats Katakuri mid diff, then joins Akainu to beat BM.

If the FM of Roger was still able to challenge an admiral even after years of inactivity, Garp who is still an active marine should have no problem against any Yonko FM.

Not to mention that Marco>Katakuri and Garp blizted Marco, so...


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## Quipchaque (Aug 4, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> His best weapon (head drill) is gone. He couldn't open the ice continent. His spirit dropped drastically and that's why he hated Garp so much. I don't see why it's impossible to lose form so badly.
> 
> On the other hand, it also makes no sense to think his speed was still the same because clearly he got older and weaker. He did say that. And if WB, Rayleigh and Garp could not resist Nature call then how could Chinjao?
> 
> Finally, if Chinjao's speed didn't drop, then you mean PrimeGarp is slower than Katakuri? Because the time Garp beat Chinjao should be close to when he fought Roger.



I didn't say his speed did not drop. It's just nigh-impossible that it dropped so far that he goes from "assumably much faster than Katakuri" to "on par with G2 and Base Luffy". And of course Prime Garp is slower. You gotta get out of this tier-thinking. To assume Garp is faster than Katakuri is about as realistic as assuming that Whitebeard can dodge Black Mamba or that Pica can blitz Brook. I will just refer back to my Rayleigh example.


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## GilDLax (Aug 4, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> And of course Prime Garp is slower. You gotta get out of this tier-thinking. To assume Garp is faster than Katakuri is about as realistic as assuming that Whitebeard can dodge Black Mamba or that Pica can blitz Brook. I will just refer back to my Rayleigh example.


But slower like G2 is slower than Katakuri? Then how did he compete at that level with Roger and PrimeWB?

I don't think I rely too much on tier. After all I think some of the Shichibukai and Enel aren't useless to post-TS characters like a lot of people think


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## Quipchaque (Aug 5, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> But slower like G2 is slower than Katakuri? Then how did he compete at that level with Roger and PrimeWB?
> 
> I don't think I rely too much on tier. After all I think some of the Shichibukai and Enel aren't useless to post-TS characters like a lot of people think



He competes with them the same way a Zoro would compete with a Brook. By outlasting opponents and striking them down with powerful attacks once they slip up or tire out.

What I meant when I said you rely too much on tier thinking is that you automatically assume that Chinjao must be fast because he fought with Garp and vice versa. That's circular reasoning with no actual evidence to back it up.


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## GilDLax (Aug 5, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> He competes with them the same way a Zoro would compete with a Brook. By outlasting opponents and striking them down with powerful attacks once they slip up or tire out.


Zolo isn't slower than Brook. He just isn't as mobile. His fighting style is not jumping around like Sanji but he can react to Sanji just fine.




DiscoZoro20 said:


> What I meant when I said you rely too much on tier thinking is that you automatically assume that Chinjao must be fast because he fought with Garp and vice versa. That's circular reasoning with no actual evidence to back it up.


Actually I didn't assume that. I merely asked you the question. I didn't say anything about how fast I believe PrimeGarp should be.


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## Quipchaque (Aug 6, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> Zolo isn't slower than Brook. He just isn't as mobile. His fighting style is not jumping around like Sanji but he can react to Sanji just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I didn't assume that. I merely asked you the question. I didn't say anything about how fast I believe PrimeGarp should be.



He is slower. Oda confirmed that himself. But yeah his reactions are likely better to make up for it. Same thing could apply to Garp or by extension to Whitebeard. Roger is pretty much an unknown so no point thinking about him.

Sorry misunderstood that part. I thought you were expressing disbelief towards that statement lol. Anyway yeah I do believe Katakuri is faster than Prime Garp. It just makes no sense to me that a top tier with such crazy speed feats would somehow be slower than another top tier that has been all about brute force and tanking. Katakuri would obviously still lose tho by a decisive margin.


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## GilDLax (Aug 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> He is slower. Oda confirmed that himself.


I know, in a 30m (or is it 50m?) race and hence just travel speed which is merely going from point A to B. In actual combat reaction speed and technique speed are more important (though depends on situation) and that's why I said that's not how Zolo fights, he just doesn't jump around and is not as mobile but that doesn't mean Sanji and Brook would just outspeed him.

Wait, so you meant travel speed when you said Garp is not as fast as Snakeman and Katakuri due to not being able to blitz PrimeChinjao? That isn't important. Akainu has never shown any amazing distance-travelling feat either yet we don't think he would just be blitzed by Katakuri. But anw, I don't think Snakeman or Katakuri has shown impressive travelling speed feats. Snakeman's punching is fast and Katakuri dodged some of that but that was more combat speed.

Or the OBD makes no distiguish between travel speed and combat speed anymore?


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## Quipchaque (Aug 6, 2018)

GilDLax said:


> I know, in a 30m (or is it 50m?) race and hence just travel speed which is merely going from point A to B. In actual combat reaction speed and technique speed are more important (though depends on situation) and that's why I said that's not how Zolo fights, he just doesn't jump around and is not as mobile but that doesn't mean Sanji and Brook would just outspeed him.
> 
> Wait, so you meant travel speed when you said Garp is not as fast as Snakeman and Katakuri due to not being able to blitz PrimeChinjao? That isn't important. Akainu has never shown any amazing distance-travelling feat either yet we don't think he would just be blitzed by Katakuri. But anw, I don't think Snakeman or Katakuri has shown impressive travelling speed feats. Snakeman's punching is fast and Katakuri dodged some of that but that was more combat speed.
> 
> Or the OBD makes no distiguish between travel speed and combat speed anymore?



Katakuri is good in both areas. His reaction speed for obvious reasons but also his traveling speed once he uses his awakening. He was capable to chase boundman in his donut Form.

What's important tho is that Garp lacks the  feats to put his speed above Katakuri in both reaction and movement speed. He was neither able to blitz Chinjao nor have we ever seen him dodge anyone the same way Katakuri can.


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## Vivo Diez (Aug 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Katakuri is good in both areas. His reaction speed for obvious reasons but also his traveling speed once he uses his awakening. He was capable to chase boundman in his donut Form.
> 
> What's important tho is that Garp lacks the  feats to put his speed above Katakuri in both reaction and movement speed. He was neither able to blitz Chinjao nor have we ever seen him dodge anyone the same way Katakuri can.


Bringing up Chinjao as a comparison point for Garp is such a far stretch tho. He was constantly being nerfed throughout the arc.

And why would Garp blitz Chinjao in the first place? Their whole encounter was set up with Garp saying he's gonna flatten Chinjao's head, he wanted to take the drill attack head on.


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## GilDLax (Aug 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> once he uses his awakening. He was capable to chase boundman in his donut Form.


Isn't that just dodging?


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## Quipchaque (Aug 6, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> Bringing up Chinjao as a comparison point for Garp is such a far stretch tho. He was constantly being nerfed throughout the arc.
> 
> And why would Garp blitz Chinjao in the first place? Their whole encounter was set up with Garp saying he's gonna flatten Chinjao's head, he wanted to take the drill attack head on.



Yeah maybe but the point is Garp lacks the feats to scale him super high in terms of speed. So why give him the benefit of the doubt? Oda clearly intends to portray Garp as the brute guy who are typically the slower ones while Katakuri is all about speed.


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## Vivo Diez (Aug 6, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Yeah maybe but the point is Garp lacks the feats to scale him super high in terms of speed. So why give him the benefit of the doubt? Oda clearly intends to portray Garp as the brute guy who are typically the slower ones while Katakuri is all about speed.



I mean, he literally blitzed Marco, who fought one of the fastest characters in the series, Borsalino, just moments before.


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## Divssjluffy (Aug 20, 2018)

i think garp is old but he can easily beat akainu and big mom even katakuri because he can never want promotion in navy.remember impel down when akainu killed fire fist ace son goku hold him for not killed akainu so the strength is
garp >> akainu = big mom. katkuri can not matck any of them now.and also the garp is only able to fight with Gold D Roger


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## Quipchaque (Aug 20, 2018)

Vivo Diez said:


> I mean, he literally blitzed Marco, who fought one of the fastest characters in the series, Borsalino, just moments before.



That's because Marco underestimated Garp. He clearly thought he is out of range and safe thanks to his Regen. So Marco ignored him and got punished.


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## nmwn93 (Aug 20, 2018)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> He most definitely is. Show me Garp´s amazing speed feats please or shut up? btw do you even realize that nubby Chinjao was able to react to Garp? faster than Hakuba and snakeman... nice joke!


I've had moderators come at me for calling people a lot less that What you do. This forum is unfair. Anywho.... Sir/mam what in the holy hell are u talking about? Garp intercepted a man like Marco. Mid air b4 he could even react. Your talk about kata's observation haki... Cute. However coby has observation haki as well and from what i could gather he was trained by garp .So it stands to reason that garp has it to. With garp and chinjao speed wasnt needed as it was a clash of strength. They were also 30 years younger. 

Garp is faster and stronger than current luffy. More so than the dark king raylegh is even. So miss me. Garp will beat lata to death in a fit of unyrilding rage. Heck if push comes to shove garp could just eradacate the ground everyones atanding on and drown the devil fruit using bigmom and kata b4 they get off their ship. If this is marine ford.


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## nmwn93 (Aug 20, 2018)

All this defense some of you are making for marco... Well why didnt he rush the plat form again. Oh right because A) he didnt want anymore of that smoke. B) sea prism stone


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## Quipchaque (Aug 20, 2018)

Neko White said:


> I've had moderators come at me for calling people a lot less that What you do. This forum is unfair. Anywho.... Sir/mam what in the holy hell are u talking about? Garp intercepted a man like Marco. Mid air b4 he could even react. Your talk about kata's observation haki... Cute. However coby has observation haki as well and from what i could gather he was trained by garp .So it stands to reason that garp has it to. With garp and chinjao speed wasnt needed as it was a clash of strength. They were also 30 years younger.
> 
> Garp is faster and stronger than current luffy. More so than the dark king raylegh is even. So miss me. Garp will beat lata to death in a fit of unyrilding rage. Heck if push comes to shove garp could just eradacate the ground everyones atanding on and drown the devil fruit using bigmom and kata b4 they get off their ship. If this is marine ford.



Yeah and Marco intercepted Aokiji and Rayleigh intercepted Kizaru so if we follow your logic that means Marco/Rayleigh>Aokiji/Kizaru in speed. You are ignoring context. Not once did Marco attempt to dodge attacks in Marineford. He felt content that he can walk through the attacks and didn't pay attention to Garp. Should be pretty obvious given that Marco is fast enough to intercept attacks like yasakani no magatama.


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## trance (Aug 21, 2018)

Divssjluffy said:


> garp is only able to fight with Gold D Roger



*cough* wb *cough*


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