# Does conversion therapy work



## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

My sister has started to date another female. She says she is not gay, but is bisexual. My parents do not like this one bit, we are losing face in our community. Does conversion therapy on bisexual people or is it specifically for homos? I want to gain more information on the subject before I present this as a viable solution to my parents to cure my sister with.

Also I guess we can use this thread for general thoughts regarding Conversion Therapy.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

You and your parents should love and support your sister regardless of what her sexuality is. It's 2019.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

My parents and me are more conservative. I do not want my sister ending up being a permanent rug muncher. If she wants to fool around for a bit then sure, but she need to have a safe and serious adult relationship with a male. We don't want whores and sluts corrupting her mind.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> but she need to have a safe and serious adult relationship with a male.



Why though? Give a reason.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Why though? Give a reason.


Because it is natural.  We are a two sex species for a reason. Also it fosters a more healthy state of being. Plus my parents want biological grandchildren, as I'm sure every typical parent would prefer, and I would also prefer biological nephews and nieces too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Plus my parents want biological grandchildren, as I'm sure every typical parent would prefer



They don't have any faith in their son getting a girl pregnant so they're resting all their hopes on their daughter?


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Since you're unable to utilize the perspectives section, and I feel like this could be a good conversation I'll allow it. Do not get out of hand and start throwing around slurs and demeaning people though. Referring to them as sluts and whores, or anything but a respectful "homosexual", "lesbian", "LGBTQ", etc. Won't  be tolerated from this point forward. Have a nice civil discussion.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Magic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> My sister has started to date another female. She says she is not gay, but is bisexual. My parents do not like this one bit, we are losing face in our community. Does conversion therapy on bisexual people or is it specifically for homos? I want to gain more information on the subject before I present this as a viable solution to my parents to cure my sister with.
> 
> Also I guess we can use this thread for general thoughts regarding Conversion Therapy.


Pics?

I care deeply about your situation but I would get a better grasp of it all with pictures.


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## Magic (Feb 25, 2019)

Oh and everything I've read on conversion therapy, it doesn't work and is usually harmful to the people taking part in it.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> They don't have any faith in their son getting a girl pregnant so they're resting all their hopes on their daughter?


Some of it might be this. I have not had a serious relationship in a long time. Also my mom wants my sister to experience the marvelous joy of motherhood. As do I. It is not a good feeling after years have gone by to find yourself having nothing. Not many people can pull off that life style or even like it. I too need to find myself a good wholesome woman in the upcoming years to lay down some homely roots.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

RemChu said:


> Pics?
> 
> I care deeply about your situation but I would get a better grasp of it all with pictures.


If we were closer as friends I might have shared pics 
But as it stands, since I do not know you very well, and it is not my picture to share, it would not be right of me.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Since you're unable to utilize the perspectives section, and I feel like this could be a good conversation I'll allow it. Do not get out of hand and start throwing around slurs and demeaning people though. Referring to them as sluts and whores, or anything but a respectful "homosexual", "lesbian", "LGBTQ", etc. Won't  be tolerated from this point forward. Have a nice civil discussion.


Thank you, I appreciate it.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Some of it might be this. I have not had a serious relationship in a long time. Also my mom wants my sister to experience the marvelous joy of motherhood.As do I. It is not a good feeling after years have gone by to find yourself having nothing. Not many people can pull off that life style or even like it. I too need to find myself a good wholesome woman in the upcoming years to lay down some homely roots.



Does your sister even want kids? This entire discussion is about you and your parents want. What does she want?


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Also there are ways for girl/girl couples to get pregnant.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Does your sister even want kids? This entire discussion is about you and your parents want. What does she want?


Yes, at least she has spoken of it in the past. Also people who end up saying they don't want kids regret it later in life as I said earlier.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Yes, at least she has spoken of it in the past. Also people who end up saying they don't want kids regret it later in life as I said earlier.



Well her dating a girl won't interfere with her getting pregnant if she really desires that, so problem solved.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Also there are ways for girl/girl couples to get pregnant.


The kid will not grow up in a stable environment. Countless study and study has shown the effects of a one sex household. But I guess it is a better alternative then some slime bag knocking her up then leaving her. So it has that going for it.


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## Magic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> If we were closer as friends I might have shared pics
> But as it stands, since I do not know you very well, and it is not my picture to share, it would not be right of me.


I'm a trusted member of this forum, and have been a member for over 10 years. Please, I only wish to help you, friend.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Well her dating a girl won't interfere with her getting pregnant if she really desires that, so problem solved.


She might end up loving women too much also western civ promotes really promiscuous activities and cheating and what have you. Pretty much the lifestyle of a hedonist.


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> The kid will not grow up in a stable environment. Countless study and study has shown the effects of a one sex household. But I guess it is a better alternative then some slime bag knocking her up then leaving her. So it has that going for it.



In that case, why don't you date her? That way you can guarantee that her kids will have a strong mother and father figure raising them.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

RemChu said:


> I'm a trusted member of this forum, and have been a member for over 10 years. Please, I only wish to help you, friend.


Maybe in a couple of years time. : )


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> In that case, why don't you date her? That way you can guarantee that her kids will have a strong mother and father figure raising them.


Date my sister?
excuse me, ava, I'm not you! I don't wish I was an incestuous lannister


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## A Optimistic (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Date my sister?
> excuse me, ava, I'm not you! I don't wish I was an incestuous lannister



You're so picky. You don't want her. You don't want a woman to have her. Stop trying to control her, she's not your property.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> You're so picky. You don't want her. You don't want a woman to have her. Stop trying to control her, she's not your property.


I'm not trying to control her. She is my sister and I love her. I just don't want her making any decisions she will regret later in life.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

please keep your fetishes to yourself. I'm trying to have a serious discussion. I have escalated the matter, and hope that it will be solved soon.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> Who tf let homophobia back in chat?


Did you not see me say I'm fine with her fooling around. Please do not try to start shit, I'm not in the mood.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

people are coming in here and derailing the thread. Guys plz stop, or I'll have to report you to the mods.


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## Ishmael (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Because it is natural. We are a two sex species for a reason. Also it fosters a more healthy state of being. Everyone that is gay, or trans, or what have you is mentally damaged in some sort of way.





Also don't worry about those claiming to report, you obviously didn't mean any harm or disrespect and a mod has already been in this thread.

Some are just legit sensitive.

Also did you ask your sister what she preferred or if this was just a one time thing for her?


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> I have similar thoughts imo, their upbringing or events that happened early on in life shot them mentally some way.
> 
> Also don't worry about those claiming to report, you obviously didn't mean any harm or disrespect and a mod has already been in this thread.
> 
> ...



I didn't ask her what she preferred. I'm going assume men, so far. As this is a recent development. And I'm not a homophobic. Like I said I'm fine with her fooling around, I just don't want her switching sides permanently.


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> I have similar thoughts imo, their upbringing or events that happened early on in life shot them mentally some way.
> 
> Also don't worry about those claiming to report, you obviously didn't mean any harm or disrespect and a mod has already been in this thread.
> 
> ...



You both are literally triggering me . You don’t understand how hurtful it is to say we are mentally damaged or shot just because of our fucking sexual preference.


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## mali (Feb 25, 2019)

can the mod deleting posts poke their head out please. i just want to know who is doing it pls.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

No more assumptions of mental damage being the cause of homosexuality. It's okay to not agree with the life, but no insults regarding it will be allowed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lurko (Feb 25, 2019)

If I'm being honest, she should go with a guy. Girls tend to get way too moody.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> No more assumptions of mental damage being the cause of homosexuality. It's okay to not agree with the life, but no insults regarding it will be allowed.


that's not an assumption. It is based on clinical studies. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Former OBD Lurker. said:


> If I'm being honest, she should go with a guy. *Girls tend to get way too moody*.


preach brother. But who knows it might be different when its two girls, lol.


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> that's not an assumption. It is based on clinical studies. Facts don't care about your feelings.



I think your clinical studies are outdated then because current studies shows that it is not in face a mental illness.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> that's not an assumption. It is based on clinical studies. Facts don't care about your feelings.


Well, actually, there are no legitimate studies on the matter, and homosexuality is expressed across nearly all mammalian species at a 10% rate. Like I said, no more talk of being mentally damaged or other insulting assumptions or the thread can go away.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> I think your clinical studies are outdated then because current studies shows that it is not in face a mental illness.


"current studies" = non peer reviewed papers written by gender studies ppl without credible citations.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Well, actually, there are no legitimate studies on the matter, and homosexuality is expressed across nearly all mammalian species at a 10% rate. Like I said, no more talk of being mentally damaged or other insulting assumptions or the thread can go away.


There is a link between high rates of mental problems be whatever they may and LGBTQ+ people. You can't link anything that disproves this because there is nothing credible that does. That's not to say I have any problems with them.


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> "current studies" = non peer reviewed papers written by gender studies ppl without credible citations.


 Lets try the American Psychological Association


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> Lets try the American Psychological Association


link away, I'm waiting. 100% you haven't even read the literature on this stuff.


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## Lurko (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Well, actually, there are no legitimate studies on the matter, and homosexuality is expressed across nearly all mammalian species at a 10% rate. Like I said, no more talk of being mentally damaged or other insulting assumptions or the thread can go away.


So animals can be gay too?


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Former OBD Lurker. said:


> So animals can be gay too?


Yes there are instances of homosexuality in animals, for whatever that may be.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> There is a link between high rates of mental problems be whatever they may and LGBTQ+ people. You can't link anything that disproves this because there is nothing credible that does. That's not to say I have any problems with them.


Correlation does not imply causation. Yes, disorders like depression are more prevalent in the LGBTQ community, but that doesn't mean that the homosexuality itself is the result of a mental issue. Keep it to whether or not the conversion therapy works, not psychoanalyzing the LGBTQ community.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Correlation does not imply causation. Yes, disorders like depression are more prevalent in the LGBTQ community, but that doesn't mean that the homosexuality itself is the result of a mental issue. Keep it to whether or not the conversion therapy works, not psychoanalyzing the LGBTQ community.


I never said homosexuality is the result of mental issues. Did you even read what I wrote? I said LGBTQ+ ppl have higher rates and typically have some sort of mental issues, whatever those issues may be.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Former OBD Lurker. said:


> So animals can be gay too?


The key point being that it's expressed pretty much across the board at the same rate. There are theories as to how this actually is a benefit to the species, but I won't go into all that. Back to the topic at hand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ishmael (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> You both are literally triggering me . You don’t understand how hurtful it is to say we are mentally damaged or shot just because of our fucking sexual preference.



I mean no disrespect by it. It's just an opinion which I'm entitled to and it's like the OP said there are studies on this matter.

Now @Moritsune I apologize if you thought that I was trying to start something or derail the thread. I've gave my answer to it and had my fill, I won't respond anymore to keep it OP related.


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

To answer your question, conversion therapy does more harm than good. Imagine someone trying to make you feel sexually attracted to the same sex if you’re straight. It would be mentally exhausting and traumatizing because it is an instinctual part of who you are. You might be able to convince someone to not act on their desires but it has never been proven that conversion therapy has changed someones sexual orientation.


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## Lurko (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> To answer your question, conversion therapy does more harm than good. Imagine someone trying to make you feel sexually attracted to the same sex if you’re straight. It would be mentally exhausting and traumatizing because it is an instinctual part of who you are. You might be able to convince someone to not act on their desires but it has never been proven that conversion therapy has changed someones sexual orientation.


So somebody can make another person gay?


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

Ishmael said:


> I mean no disrespect by it. It's just an opinion which I'm entitled to and it's like the OP said there are studies on this matter.
> 
> Now @Moritsune I apologize if you thought that I was trying to start something or derail the thread. I've gave my answer to it and had my fill, I won't respond anymore to keep it OP related.





Former OBD Lurker. said:


> So somebody can make another person gay?



No... I don’t know how you got that


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I never said homosexuality is the result of mental issues. Did you even read what I wrote? I said LGBTQ+ ppl have higher rates and typically have some sort of mental issues, whatever those issues may be.


You literally said that they are mentally damaged, and that there were studies to prove it, and I opposed that view, then you brought mental disorders into the conversation which made me think you were equating being mentally damaged to a mental disorder. If that's not the case, my apologies, but still, not all LGBTQ people struggle with mental health issues, so that's a non-issue.

Regardless, on the main topic, Remchu and 
 Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI gave the answers I agree with.


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## Lurko (Feb 25, 2019)

Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI said:


> No... I don’t know how you got that


The post just gave me that vibe.


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## La Moral Support XXV (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> You literally said that they are mentally damaged, and that there were studies to prove it, and I opposed that view, then you brought mental disorders into the conversation which made me think you were equating being mentally damaged to a mental disorder. If that's not the case, my apologies, but still, not all LGBTQ people struggle with mental health issues, so that's a non-issue.
> 
> Regardless, on the main topic, Remchu and
> Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI gave the answers I agree with.



You can call me LPALXXI for short


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> You literally said that they are mentally damaged, and that there were studies to prove it, and I opposed that view, then you brought mental disorders into the conversation which made me think you were equating being mentally damaged to a mental disorder. If that's not the case, my apologies, but still, not all LGBTQ people struggle with mental health issues, so that's a non-issue.
> 
> Regardless, on the main topic, Remchu and
> Le Pandivni Amor Lux XXI gave the answers I agree with.



fair enough, to each their own. You are entitled to your opinion. Just as a person is entitled to think 1+1= 3. Just cause someone has an opinion doesn't mean it should be valued the same as other if it is totally asinine.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> fair enough, to each their own. You are entitled to your opinion. Just as a person is entitled to think 1+1= 3. Just cause someone has an opinion doesn't mean it should be valued the same as other if it is totally asinine.


At least keep an open mind on it, there's no legitimate data to suggest that conversion therapy works, but there is plenty of data showing the mental toll that such a "therapy" has on the individual. If you're not open to other points of view let me know so I can close the topic, as it wouldn't serve a purpose at that point.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> At least keep an open mind on it, there's no legitimate data to suggest that conversion therapy works, but there is plenty of data showing the mental toll that such a "therapy" has on the individual. If you're not open to other points of view let me know so I can close the topic, as it wouldn't serve a purpose at that point.



Yes I 100% agree conversion theory has no legit data stating it works, and it could be quack work most likely. But if anyone has any anecdotal evidence with the experience, then it would be beneficial. I guess other methods that would work is an intervention? But with an intervention one must be sure it works, or it will make matters much worse.


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## Kitsune (Feb 25, 2019)

No, conversion therapy doesn’t work and it’s morally repugnant imo. Live and let live.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Yes I 100% agree conversion theory has no legit data stating it works, and it could be quack work most likely. But if anyone has any anecdotal evidence with the experience, then it would be beneficial. I guess other methods that would work is an intervention? But with an intervention one must be sure it works, or it will make matters much worse.


The problem here is that your sister will likely resent the rest of the family if y'all try to force her to change who she is. The best path IMO is to let her know of your concerns as a family, but to ultimately be supportive of whatever she chooses. It can get pretty ugly if people start forcing things on others, or refuse to accept another lifestyle.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> The problem here is that your sister will likely resent the rest of the family if y'all try to force her to change who she is. The best path IMO is to let her know of your concerns as a family, but to ultimately be supportive of whatever she chooses. It can get pretty ugly if people start forcing things on others, or refuse to accept another lifestyle.


 On the off chance it works and or is possible. Do you think it would be wise to try to seduce and win over my sister's new female interest as my own gf and then dump her a little while after?


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> On the off chance it works and or is possible. Do you think it would be wise to try to seduce and win over my sister's new female interest as my own gf and then dump her a little while after?


No, I think it would be highly manipulative, and would drive a wedge between you and your sister, there's no way she wouldn't be disappointed in you for flirting with her girlfriend, let alone seducing her.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> No, I think it would be highly manipulative, and would drive a wedge between you and your sister, there's no way she wouldn't be disappointed in you for flirting with her girlfriend, let alone seducing her.


fair enough, but that's assuming I'd get caught, right? High risk, high reward! if I manage to pull this off the problem should be solved.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> fair enough, but that's assuming I'd get caught, right? High risk, high reward! if I manage to pull this off the problem should be solved.


Well, that's assuming the best case (for you, worst for your sister). It's not a risk I would recommend morally, and the likelihood of failing or the girl telling your sister has a much higher probability than succeeding perfectly. Plus, even assuming you "succeed", what if the girl then loves you? Can you hide a relationship like that from your family forever? What happens when you just ditch her because you weren't interested in the first place? Does she then tell your sister everything?

Overall I'd say it's a high risk, no reward situation, assuming you want to have a healthy relationship with your sister.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Well, that's assuming the best case (for you, worst for your sister). It's not a risk I would recommend morally, and the likelihood of failing or the girl telling your sister has a much higher probability than succeeding perfectly. Plus, even assuming you "succeed", what if the girl then loves you? Can you hide a relationship like that from your family forever? What happens when you just ditch her because you weren't interested in the first place? Does she then tell your sister everything?
> 
> Overall I'd say it's a high risk, no reward situation, assuming you want to have a healthy relationship with your sister.



you are right. Excellent break down of what might happen. Guess it is back to the drawing board.


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## Venom (Feb 25, 2019)

Ah come on why would you delete my post. It was a joke lmao


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Venom said:


> Ah come on why would you delete my post. It was a joke lmao


I figured, it was in poor taste though. I'd like to keep this topic as pleasant as possible.


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## Rifulofthewest (Feb 25, 2019)

You do not have to try conversion therapy with anyone, it does not work, a person's sexual preference is for biological reasons, which can not be altered, neither with hormonal treatments nor with shock therapy or any method that they say works: no, it does not work.
Studies show that sexual state is more common is biexuality to a lesser or greater degree (i mean, being able to feel attracted to both sexes with greater or lesser preference for one or the other) but really pure homosexuality, does not even reach the 10% of the population, and according to some studies, pure heterosexuality is also only about 15% and 20%.
That leaves us that the bulk of the population is bisexual, however the social tendency of pairing is heterosexuality, when theoretically any could predominate. Why? The reason is simple: it is easier and convenient to be heterosexual, although you seem to think that there is a kind of lobby that wants to make us all gay.

Bisexuals tend to meditate more on the sex with which they come together because they really have both ways open, so your sister's decision about her partner will always be conscious based on what she rationally believes is right for her at the time and level of understanding that she have with her potential partners. 
What happens to her is that in this moment, any boy she knows likes her more than that girl, but that could change.

Your sister is not going to become a lesbian completely, because there is no possibility that she will stop being attracted to men on a biological level. She could stop seeing boys consciously (for example, if you bother her a lot, maybe she decides that she will not date more men in order to makes you angry), but she would still be attracted to them.

On the other hand, if she is bisexual and is dating a girl and not a man despite her family environment, that is you and your parents, do not see him with good eyes, the problem is not so much that she like women, but that from her point of view, the men that she have available to be her partner at this time may not be suitable.

Have not you considered that your sister just do not like men who can go out with her now but that she could eventually meet a guy who appeals her and likes her in the future? You said that she wants to have children, right? so when she meets a boy who attracts her sexually and likes his personality, she will meditate by herself if her life project can happen with that boy or not.

You really seem to think that heterosexuality and homosexuality are the ones that mark the couple that people choose to be, and really that is not so much, since people choose their partner depending on how they want their own life to be.

Your sister could be completely heterosexual and not find any man she likes and stay single forever, even if she wants to date a man because they attract him sexually they could repel her in his personality or in his life project (which is what I believe what happens to me, that I want to have a boyfriend and yet I do not have it), she could fall in love with a man and that this does not correspond, or could be a lover of one married without her knowing, she could get married and have children and that her husband leave her for a younger one, she could get pregnant with a night mess of one who does not want to take charge ... not only lesbianism is a problem for the idea of stable family that you want for her.

I will give you some advice, you should accept your sister as she is and let her do what she wants, because if you press her, you will only get her away from you because of a problem that is not even a problem.

The best you can do is present handsome, smart and rich guys whose personality and hobbies are similar to your sister and pray that she likes them better than the girl she is with. Anything else, will be worse.

And do not pay attention to what your community thinks of you or your sister.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

@Esdese, is there anything else you hope to gain from this topic? If not, it seems like a decent place to lock it.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> @Esdese, is there anything else you hope to gain from this topic? If not, it seems like a decent place to lock it.


why do you want to lock my thread only? No do not lock it. Later information my come to light and or other members might give their wonderful insights and point of views on the matter as Rifulofthewest so kindly did. I'm still in the process of reading this reply, and might comment back to it if need be.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> why do you want to lock my thread only? No do not lock it. Later information my come to light and or other members might give their wonderful insights and point of views on the matter as Rifulofthewest so kindly did.


Fair enough, I had thought your acceptance of no data supporting the therapy may make the main topic answered and wondered if you were looking for more from it. I'll leave it open for the time being, I won't be very happy if I wake up and have to put out fires though, so please help where you can in keeping the topic civil, thanks.


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## Esdese (Feb 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Fair enough, I had thought your acceptance of no data supporting the therapy may make the main topic answered and wondered if you were looking for more from it. I'll leave it open for the time being, I won't be very happy if I wake up and have to put out fires though, so please help where you can in keeping the topic civil, thanks.


Perfect, thank you


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## Catamount (Feb 25, 2019)

Can someone please clarify if the op is serious? I mean, I am serious in asking this. It is not a troll thread for the sole purpose of edgy topic drawing out members who can relate to it, right?
Spying on someone's sex life, parents wanting grandchildren talk... But everyone here are replying seriously. I am confused.


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## Moritsune (Feb 25, 2019)

Catamount said:


> Can someone please clarify if the op is serious? I mean, I am serious in asking this. It is not a troll thread for the sole purpose of edgy topic drawing out members who can relate to it, right?
> Spying on someone's sex life, parents wanting grandchildren talk... But everyone here are replying seriously. I am confused.


I made the call. I figured whether it was a troll attempt or not it was a topic worth discussing due to the continued operation of such camps. I also will not judge a family situation or behavior just because it's abnormal to me, there are crazier stories out there, from members of this section no less.


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## Nep Nep (Feb 25, 2019)

Esdese said:


> She might end up loving women too much also western civ promotes really promiscuous activities and cheating and what have you. Pretty much the lifestyle of a *hedonist.*



Yeah that's what my religious old man told me when I told him I was bi too x)
That's not quite true though. I just realized that few girls have the qualities I like. Very few indeed. I'd personally like to be with someone who has similar hobbies to me and likes to do most of the same things I like. Likes the same kinds of video games I like.

I've dated a LOT of girls and not one has ever liked the kinds of video games I've liked. They've shared some traits but not enough in my opinion. That's a big thing with me, a huge thing. A lot of my free time is spent there and how great would it be to have a partner that can I'm able to talk about those things with?

Rather than it just being about pleasuring myself with every possible potential partner, it's about widening my chances of finding my ideal partner.

Men and women are different at the end of the day and opposites don't necessarily attract. In fact I'd say you need at least one big thing in common and the more you have in common with someone the better, as long as they're not a total clone of you of course!

So it's not about hedonism, maybe she just feels like boys don't like any of the things she likes and so she finds the conversation and free time spent with them outside of sex very dull.

How old is your sis? High School age? If so she'll probably get over it. Lots of kids in high school are just following trends and it's easier for girls, less people freak out about two girls.

If she's older? It's less likely.

I didn't start experimenting until now as well, I'm 25. For several reasons, many of which were diminished or went away now that I'm older.

Gay couples can have biological kids too, artificial insemination and all that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Catamount (Feb 25, 2019)

If it is serious, I am more amused by the people replying to it and trying to make sense. I know that in 2019 middle ages still blossom in some communities, but I did not expect the representative of such on NF. And even being tolerated at all.


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## Catamount (Feb 25, 2019)

Anyway, thanks for clarifying. I see no point in saying whatever I have to say. Thanks.


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## Nep Nep (Feb 25, 2019)

Catamount said:


> If it is serious, I am more amused by the people replying to it and trying to make sense. I know that in 2019 middle ages still blossom in some communities, but I did not expect the representative of such on NF. And even being tolerated at all.



I mean part of me doooooes feel like this is a troll but hell. It's my day off right? I can make time LOL


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## Son Goku (Feb 25, 2019)

@Rifulofthewest Summed most of it up pretty well.

There is no scientific proof these camps work or that conversion therapy will work. 

Second your notions of sexuality are based on antiquated science. Sexuality like gender is fairly fluid. Yes you can be heterosexual/bisexual/pansexual/homosexual, but the degree to which you are any one or more thing varies person to person. 

Third there is no "natural" sexual orientation, You assume because we need to procreate to survive that it is the only "natural" option, but homosexuality is a naturally occuring thing in more species than just humans.

Also, the idea that you think all women are sluts and corrupting speaks volumes of your opinion of women.


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## dergeist (Feb 26, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> No more assumptions of mental damage being the cause of homosexuality. It's okay to not agree with the life, but no insults regarding it will be allowed.


Are you saying mental instability may not play a part in a person's choices?

@Esdese there could be numerous reasons why she's acting out, one is rebellion and attention seeking. If it's that then direct confrontation is ill-advised.


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## mali (Feb 26, 2019)

i get that this is a troll thread but this is highkey quite alarming because the presiding mod described conversion therapy as taking a "mental toll" and yet saw it fit to keep a "how can i manipulate my parents into manipulating my sibling out of whichever sexuality she affirms via conversion therapy" thread open all because of the callous notion that the state of being bisexual/homosexual is a "life" and thus something up for discussion?? this is beyond freedom of speech induced edginess because i think they have it in their head that they talked this bored individual out of such damaging actions and so that excuses all the not so thinly veiled attempts at demeaning non-hetero people.


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## Nep Nep (Feb 26, 2019)

Mali said:


> i get that this is a troll thread but this is highkey quite alarming because the presiding mod described conversion therapy as taking a "mental toll" and yet saw it fit to keep a "how can i manipulate my parents into manipulating my sibling out of whichever sexuality she affirms via conversion therapy" thread open all because of the callous notion that the state of being bisexual/homosexual is a "life" and thus something up for discussion?? this is beyond freedom of speech induced edginess because i think they have it in their head that they talked this bored individual out of such damaging actions and so that excuses all the not so thinly veiled attempts at demeaning non-hetero people.



I think you're taking it too far... as a boy that enjoys sucking dick...

If we can't DISCUSS things then we're just being moral police, basically being the same as Republican Christian extremists. No fucking different.

Let's not fall into that trap.

Nobody ever changed by being yelled at angrily by some online twat bag. In fact, if anything, people that get angry so easily have caused an opposite reaction...

The way to stop the cycle of retardation is to not participate in it by being a retard yeah?

Hell... look at the captain marvel ratings and drastic drop of earnings potential. Being a fucking dick to people doesn't change people's minds. It only affirms that you're a dick and that they're right to hate you.

I dunno about you, but an online stranger that I don't know doesn't really have the power to "demean" me. Y'know cause I'm older than 12 mentally.


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## mali (Feb 26, 2019)

i cant tell if youre misunderstanding my post intentionally or not nep nep but this is you rn, albeit about sexuality


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## Moritsune (Feb 26, 2019)

Mali said:


> i cant tell if youre misunderstanding my post intentionally or not nep nep but this is you rn, albeit about sexuality


Ignoring an issue doesn't make it vanish. As Nep Nep said, conversation is how you get the word out about how inhumane these things are and slowly eradicate them. Attacking the person asking the question isn't going to do anything other than make them defensive and stand their own ground. I believe the question may be a genuine one based on prior experience with the OP, and so long as the conversation stays on topic and civil there's no harm. I'm not going to continuously explain why the thread is being allowed just because people have a problem with the subject. Either stick to the topic and offer your view, or simply move on. If you don't want to see the thread, feel free to place the OP on your ignore list. Thanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nep Nep (Feb 26, 2019)

Mali said:


> i cant tell if youre misunderstanding my post intentionally or not nep nep but this is you rn, albeit about sexuality



I'm not misunderstanding anything. I just understand the very basic human nature that negative reinforcement doesn't do jack shit to adults when it comes to these sorts of topics.

There are adults that grew up considering gay relationships wrong. We shouldn't be asking how we should condemn or silence them. We should be asking how do we help them open their minds and evolve socially? Social evolution is the evolution of humanity.

Like I said, if you just assert automatically that people are retarded pricks all you're doing is lowering yourself to that level and perpetuating that cycle.

Basically, while Naruto is a basic as fuck shounen anime, it's right. Continuing the cycle of hatred simply continues that endless cycle of hatred.

If you're unwilling to be the bigger, more mature man or woman... then nobody will listen to you. Even WITH maturity some truly sad and ignorant individuals won't hear you... but better to let them hear you defend yourself in a way that isn't aggressive.

Aggression begets more aggression. Have some basic maturity and control yourself on how repulsive you find the ideas that any one human has amassed in their lifetime. Let's all discuss things freely. Only then, over TIME and repeated discussion will anything make progress.

A good life is led by a very simple philosophy. You have ZERO absolutely ZERO control over the world and it's people. You have no power over them. As soon as you exert too much they would revolt. History teaches us that... 

The one and only thing you have control over is yourself and your reactions to outside stimuli. Control them to the best of your ability so that you can overcome.


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## Magic (Feb 26, 2019)

Nep Nep said:


> I think you're taking it too far... as a boy that enjoys sucking dick...
> 
> If we can't DISCUSS things then we're just being moral police, basically being the same as Republican Christian extremists. No fucking different.
> 
> ...



Dude these posts are bad.


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## Nep Nep (Feb 26, 2019)

RemChu said:


> Dude these posts are bad.



RemChu.

Send all complaints to the complaint department.

0123 45th ST, My Anus, Florida, 67891.

Be sure to lick the "letter" thoroughly and insert your "complaint" roughly. It's a bit of a tight fit you see.

Thank you :3


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## Esdese (Feb 26, 2019)

Catamount said:


> Can someone please clarify if the op is serious? I mean, I am serious in asking this. It is not a troll thread for the sole purpose of edgy topic drawing out members who can relate to it, right?
> Spying on someone's sex life, parents wanting grandchildren talk... But everyone here are replying seriously. I am confused.


I'm not a troll. Or at the very least I'm serious when it comes to this thread. I'm open and honest about my trolling/shitposting moments. And I only do those in the Alley. This is a matter I cared deeply about. And while not the best of ideas to ask ppls thoughts on an anime forum, I thought fuck it any insight is good insight.


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## Lurko (Feb 26, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I'm not a troll. Or at the very least I'm serious when it comes to this thread. I'm open and honest about my trolling/shitposting moments. And I only do those in the Alley. This is a matter I cared deeply about. And while not the best of ideas to ask ppls thoughts on an anime forum, I thought fuck it any insight is good insight.


I agree.


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## Esdese (Feb 26, 2019)

Former OBD Lurker. said:


> I agree.


I'd rate u with agree too, but i'm rep sealed and rating.


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## The Gr8 Destroyer (Feb 26, 2019)

No. The answer is no. Did anyone else say that yet?


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## Jim (Mar 3, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I too need to find myself a good wholesome woman in the upcoming years to lay down some homely roots.


why not ask your parents for one?


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## Sunrider (Mar 4, 2019)

Short answer: NO. 

Conversion therapy doesn't work. There is evidence, though, that it piles on a host of mental disorders including but not limited to anxiety and depression. So not only will your sister _still_ be bisexual, she'll be bisexual and mentally unhealthy. 

(as an aside, if she told you she's bisexual then there's still a 50% chance she'll settle down and marry a guy because surprise she still seems to like guys) 

Right now being with girls seems to make her happy, so what you should really be asking yourself which is worth more: your reputation in the community and your identity as a conservative, or your sister's happiness.


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## Pocalypse (Mar 5, 2019)

@Esdese

update?


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## Esdese (Mar 5, 2019)

Pocalypse said:


> @Esdese
> 
> update?


We are still waiting. My parents and I. We said no point in confronting her this early on when we still don't now if it is a serious relationship. We might try talking to her in a couple of weeks.


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## Son Goku (Mar 5, 2019)

Esdese said:


> We are still waiting. My parents and I. We said no point in confronting her this early on when we still don't now if it is a serious relationship. We might try talking to her in a couple of weeks.


Good luck with that, if you honestly think sitting down with her and telling her that the relationship needs to end because she is with a woman is going to work all I have to say is this:

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pocalypse (Mar 6, 2019)

Esdese said:


> We are still waiting. My parents and I. We said no point in confronting her this early on when we still don't now if it is a serious relationship. We might try talking to her in a couple of weeks.



Have you and your parents thought of what you're going to say?


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## Demetrius (Mar 6, 2019)

Pay me and we can test that hypothesis of yours!

(Serious answer, I guess: There's a reason it's often  called a pseudoscience. ;P)


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## JJ Baloney (Mar 7, 2019)

Esdese said:


> Because it is natural.  We are a two sex species for a reason. Also it fosters a more healthy state of being. Plus my parents want biological grandchildren, as I'm sure every typical parent would prefer, and I would also prefer biological nephews and nieces too.


You'd never accept adopted kids into ya family? That's not nice...


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## Esdese (Mar 9, 2019)

I think I have might be coming to the conclusion that all women are born bi. Or at at the very least down with fucking the same sex.


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## Nep Nep (Mar 9, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I think I have might be coming to the conclusion that all women are born bi. Or at at the very least down with fucking the same sex.



Most people are like that more likely. It's just society puts infinitely more pressure on men to be straight. So they're still to this day afraid of ostracization from their old fashioned family and friends.

It's easy to say oh well, they weren't your friends anyways then. But to actually go through with it is different.


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## Sunrider (Mar 9, 2019)

Nep Nep said:


> Most people are like that more likely. It's just society puts infinitely more pressure on men to be straight. So they're still to this day afraid of ostracization from their old fashioned family and friends.


I feel like this is the reason we have the clinical designation 'MSM' rather than men that simply identify as bisexual. Being identified as bi or gay still carries too much blowback to wanna own.


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## Nep Nep (Mar 10, 2019)

Sunrider said:


> I feel like this is the reason we have the clinical designation 'MSM' rather than men that simply identify as bisexual. Being identified as bi or gay still carries too much blowback to wanna own.



Oh I know lol. My dad can't stand to face it with me. 

Today he gave me the typical talk of oh well I'm sure it's just a phase.

I was like... dude I'm gonna be 26 soon. I had all of high school to play around with phases like a little sheep. I've thought about this for a LONG time and I decided it was finally time to enjoy all the things I want to enjoy regardless of certain people being on my ass about it. 

Then he cringed and said let's not talk about it. Lel.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kitsune (Mar 10, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I think I have might be coming to the conclusion that all women are born bi. Or at at the very least down with fucking the same sex.



Perhaps, but I’m convinced it’s true of men just as much as women. Maybe 20% of people are either completely gay or straight and everyone else is DTF when born in a permissive or hedonistic time and place.


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## 海外ニキ (Mar 15, 2019)

It's threads like these that make me feel so bad for the crap asexual people have to deal with, from both sides of this argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Moritsune (Mar 15, 2019)

Zaxxon said:


> It's threads like these that make me feel so bad for the crap asexual people have to deal with, from *both *sides of this argument.


Enlighten me, I've never heard of someone being sent to conversion therapy for being asexual. I mean, I realize there's going to be pressure put on them from ignorant people, but I haven't heard of any cases this extreme.


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## 海外ニキ (Mar 15, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Enlighten me, I've never heard of someone being sent to conversion therapy for being asexual. I mean, I realize there's going to be pressure put on them from ignorant people, but I haven't heard of any cases this extreme.


I moreso meant in the veins of what the OP described, as demanding proper biological children/grandchildren.

I mean yes, you can procreate without the traditional sex drive, but this huge emphasis on a person's sexuality I can't imagine being so healthy *all the time*.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Moritsune (Mar 15, 2019)

Zaxxon said:


> I moreso meant in the veins of what the OP described, as demanding proper biological children/grandchildren.
> 
> I mean yes, you can procreate without the traditional sex drive, but this huge emphasis on a person's sexuality I can't imagine being so healthy *all the time*.


That's fair, I feel enough pressure as a heterosexual male that's made the decision to not procreate, I can imagine the feeling of not being interested in sex and still be faced with such pressure.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Worm Juice (Mar 24, 2019)

Esdese said:


> I think I have might be coming to the conclusion that all women are born bi. Or at at the very least down with fucking the same sex.




It’s never a black or white situation, but it’s nice that you don’t see it as a life style. 

For your family to stay happy and healthy IMO there needs to be unconditional love for each other. From what I heard conversion therapy is very damaging and traumatizing. So maybe you and your parents can try to change your thoughts on this topic, get a broader perspective and have an unconditional love for your sister.


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## David (Mar 25, 2019)

You should watch the movie "Boy Erased."


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## Polaris (Mar 25, 2019)

Honestly, I think the concept of conversion therapy is asinine and ludicrous. Attraction is a subconscious process and it’s impossible to control who you end up being attracted to.

Whenever I’ve come across this term, I think to myself, ”I wonder what it would be like if heterosexuality was a sexual minority and someone would try to convert me into being attracted to the same-sex gender. It wouldn’t work. There’s no way.”

And I think that’s exactly how homosexual/bisexual/pansexual people feel about conversion therapy. That a feeling that comes so naturally to them (even though others may not find it natural) can’t be changed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## A Optimistic (Mar 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> That's fair, I feel enough pressure as a heterosexual male that's made the decision to not procreate, I can imagine the feeling of not being interested in sex and still be faced with such pressure.



Are your friends and family aware of that decision? How do they feel about it?


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## Moritsune (Mar 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Are your friends and family aware of that decision? How do they feel about it?


Yeah, everyone knows. Friends don't give me too much grief over it, but family is ridiculous about it, always saying that I'd be a good dad, and they want a niece/nephew/grandkid/whatever. Need to find a doctor to give me the snip so I can shut them up.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> Yeah, everyone knows. Friends don't give me too much grief over it, but family is ridiculous about it, always saying that I'd be a good dad, and they want a niece/nephew/grandkid/whatever. Need to find a doctor to give me the snip so I can shut them up.



Something you decided recently or you always knew you didn't want kids?


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## Moritsune (Mar 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Something you decided recently or you always knew you didn't want kids?


I was on the fence about it back in high school, but after I moved out and experienced true freedom and had to start paying for everything myself I decided pretty quickly that kids weren't a responsibility that I wanted in life.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 25, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> I was on the fence about it back in high school, but after I moved out and experienced true freedom and had to start paying for everything myself I decided pretty quickly that kids weren't a responsibility that I wanted in life.



Do girls you date see it as a dealbreaker?


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## Moritsune (Mar 25, 2019)

A Optimistic said:


> Do girls you date see it as a dealbreaker?


Yeah, usually, same as how I find them having kids already or being determined to have kids to be a dealbreaker. I don't have much luck with long term relationships.


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## Polaris (Mar 27, 2019)

Moritsune said:


> That's fair, I feel enough pressure as a heterosexual male that's made the decision to not procreate, I can imagine the feeling of not being interested in sex and still be faced with such pressure.



I have no desire to have biological children either.
One thing that annoys me is that some people are of the opinion that people who don’t want to procreate are, ”cold and selfish” First of all, the desire to have children _is _selfish. Because humans have this desire for the purpose of subconsciously ensuring the survival of the human species. I’m not saying that it’s a, ”bad desire” because it’s selfish. I’m just saying that it’s illogical and wrong to try to guilt trip people who don’t want to procreate into thinking that they’re selfish.

There’s also a widespread and erroneous belief that ALL individuals who don’t want to reproduce, dislike kids in general. This isn’t the case for me. I’m actually very fond of kids and thoroughly enjoyed working with kids when I was a substitute teacher.

*1.* They’re less judgmental than adults. *2. *They’re more upfront and honest than adults, since they aren’t as knowledgeable yet when it comes to social norms, manners and etiquette, which prohibit humans from being 100% authentic. *3. *They’re creative and energetic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nep Nep (Mar 27, 2019)

Quite frankly I don't and most likely will never have enough money to support kids.

Kids are less financially feasible these days. They need a stable and safe environment to grow. Multiply your loving costs... 

No way man.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sunrider (Mar 29, 2019)

Nep Nep said:


> Quite frankly I don't and most likely will never have enough money to support kids.
> 
> Kids are less financially feasible these days. They need a stable and safe environment to grow. Multiply your loving costs...
> 
> No way man.


Honestly, I'd love to have kids with the right person... but nowadays even if I met that person, I've thought a lot about the arrogance in bringing kids into a world that _I _wouldn't live in if I were given a choice.


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## Nep Nep (Mar 29, 2019)

Sunrider said:


> Honestly, I'd love to have kids with the right person... but nowadays even if I met that person, I've thought a lot about the arrogance in bringing kids into a world that _I _wouldn't live in if I were given a choice.



Yeaaah feel the same way tbh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Francyst (Apr 1, 2019)

Sunrider said:


> Honestly, I'd love to have kids with the right person... but nowadays even if I met that person, I've thought a lot about the arrogance in bringing kids into a world that _I _wouldn't live in if I were given a choice.


The world seriously needs more people like you


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## Tony Lou (Apr 5, 2019)

I believe it is possible to reprogram the human mind into anything, but... not through ethical or humane methods.


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## Aduro (Apr 5, 2019)

Esdese said:


> My parents and me are more conservative. I do not want my sister ending up being a permanent rug muncher. If she wants to fool around for a bit then sure, but she need to have a safe and serious adult relationship with a male. We don't want whores and sluts corrupting her mind.


If you think that lesbians have a more perverted or immoral sex lives and desires compared to men, then you'd be pretty fucking shocked by my internet search history.


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## JJ Baloney (Apr 6, 2019)

Luiz said:


> I believe it is possible to reprogram the human mind into anything, but... not through ethical or humane methods.


I think you mean unethical or inhumane methods...


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## Moritsune (Apr 6, 2019)

Wrecked Baloney said:


> I think you mean unethical or inhumane methods...


"*not* through ethical or humane methods"


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## Santoryu (Apr 6, 2019)

All women being bi is hucksterism


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## JJ Baloney (Apr 6, 2019)

Sunrider said:


> I've thought a lot about the arrogance in bringing kids into a world that _I _wouldn't live in if I were given a choice.


The fuck?


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## Esdese (May 10, 2019)

@Rinoa I don't think my post should have been deleted. "being mean" is not a good reason for a mod to delete a post. As being "being mean is vague " while there is a defined line that people typically accept and one crosses for being mean. My comment was not that. Sharp-tongued, sure? But nothing one would categorize as mean. Also to the mod that deleted it, why delete the whole thing? You could have left the tag to ava.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Moritsune (May 10, 2019)

Esdese said:


> @Rinoa I don't think my post should have been deleted. "being mean" is not a good reason for a mod to delete a post. As being "being mean is vague " while there is a defined line that people typically accept and one crosses for being mean. My comment was not that. Sharp-tongued, sure? But nothing one would categorize as mean. Also to the mod that deleted it, why delete the whole thing? You could have left the tag to ava.


You were baiting, and low-level flaming. It wasn't a huge deal, which is why I deleted the post and reminded you to be nice instead of requesting another ban for you. Furthermore, when I allowed you to create the thread, it was with the understanding that you were to keep things civil, which your most recent post was not. If you can't adhere to our agreement just say the word and I'll get rid of the whole thread without a second thought.

Reactions: Like 1


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## shieldbounce (May 10, 2019)

Mouten said:


> male - disown them.


This is legitimately a thing, and it has happened more than a couple times in those Christian families.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yubel (May 10, 2019)

Esdese said:


> My sister has started to date another female. She says she is not gay, but is bisexual. My parents do not like this one bit, we are losing face in our community. Does conversion therapy on bisexual people or is it specifically for homos? I want to gain more information on the subject before I present this as a viable solution to my parents to cure my sister with.
> 
> Also I guess we can use this thread for general thoughts regarding Conversion Therapy.


A person will never change unless they want to change, your sister needs to want it first and foremost.


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## Kiseki (May 14, 2019)

OP has me fuming.

This is why religion in this extreme form in this century should no longer exist if they're going to be like that. I'm all for modern religious people, who accept that society is growing and moving on from ancient thoughts. Good for them, but like... The ones who haven't: We don't live in the dark ages anymore. Wake up.

It's not up to other people to decide on someone's sexuality.


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## Yubel (May 14, 2019)

Kiseki said:


> OP has me fuming.
> 
> This is why religion in this extreme form in this century should no longer exist if they're going to be like that. I'm all for modern religious people, who accept that society is growing and moving on from ancient thoughts. Good for them, but like... The ones who haven't: We don't live in the dark ages anymore. Wake up.
> 
> It's not up to other people to decide on someone's sexuality.


This is the light ages and we don't accept no rainbows.


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## Kitsune (May 15, 2019)

Also locking since I think this has run its course.

Reactions: Like 1


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