# New Joker? Ledger replacement? Possibly a good find? :S



## Grape (Dec 19, 2008)

Listen to the dark haired man say these lines...

"Who am I?"

"oh Dex, You don't have a code... Harry did..."

"you can't be a killer and the hero..."

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLB7_y2vnxM[/YOUTUBE]


Watch his facial manorisms, minus the tongue, it's almost spot on.

The paranoid little thing inside me thinks Ledger ripped this personality archetype for his portrayal of Joker.

Yeah some might say no one should reprise the roll of Ledger, and to this I say BOO! Joker needs to be in more of Nolans series before it's done.


Did Harry Potter stop just because Dumbledore keeled over in real life? No they got a worse actor(for the part) and just pretended nothing happened.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 19, 2008)

I stand firmly that the role of Joker should be left alone, and a new villain to debut in the third movie.


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## Bear Walken (Dec 20, 2008)

Just leave it alone and move on. Besides, I'm not a big fan of recasting.


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## Darth Nihilus (Dec 20, 2008)

No reason to tarnish what Ledger did in TDK. Just move on.


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## excellence153 (Dec 20, 2008)

I agree with the OP.

Just because Ledger did an amazing job doesn't mean that the role of the Joker has a forcefield around it.  And yes, I'm referring to you all as childish.  It's pretty close-minded to think that way.

Although for the next film, I don't believe the Joker should have a visible role.  Maybe just a speaking role.  Like... I have a scene in mind where Batman is talking to the Joker, but the audience can see him.  He's shrouded in shadows.  I think it would really get the viewer excited (if person does a good job) for what's to come.

Seriously... that scene will be a ticket-seller for the fourth movie (if Nolan chooses to make one).


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## chrisp (Dec 20, 2008)

Recasting is the filth!


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## Graham Aker (Dec 20, 2008)

Don't fuck with continuity n00bs! 

I predict a tie-in animation where the Joker's story is finally concluded.


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## XMURADX (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice find opener...But Ledger was a legend.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 20, 2008)

excellence153 said:


> I agree with the OP.
> 
> Just because Ledger did an amazing job doesn't mean that the role of the Joker has a forcefield around it.  And yes, I'm referring to you all as childish.



Who are you to call us childish? We all have our own opinions, thank you very much.



> It's pretty close-minded to think that way.
> 
> Although for the next film, I don't believe the Joker should have a visible role.  Maybe just a speaking role.  Like... I have a scene in mind where Batman is talking to the Joker, but the audience can see him.  He's shrouded in shadows.  I think it would really get the viewer excited (if person does a good job) for what's to come.
> 
> Seriously... that scene will be a ticket-seller for the fourth movie (if Nolan chooses to make one).



I don't see any reason to revisit the Joker, really. He had his limelight in the 2nd movie. I'd prefer a new villain for the 3rd movie for our interest.


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## Stalin (Dec 20, 2008)

Knox said:


> Listen to the dark haired man say these lines...
> 
> "Who am I?"
> 
> ...



No it wouldn't make much sense to recast the joker in the current batman franchise, but maybe in another franschise.


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## Grape (Dec 20, 2008)

Why? WHY? WHY?

This is will be THE end all Batman movie series of all time. When all is said and done, if someone equal to Ledgers performance can be found, it will only make the SERIES as a whole better.

And No, I'm not saying the Joker should return in Part III. I'm saying he should return in Part IV.

The Joker is without any shred of doubt Batmans ultimate baddie. Having him be in one movie without any real closing to his story, only damages the continuity of the series.

I.E. If Orlando Bloom died during the second film being filmed (yeah I know they were all filmed at once, but this is an example) and they had to continue making LOTR, they WOULD recast him.

And that's not even taking into account the Joker is somewhat a larger role in Batman, than Legolas is in LOTR. Actually, I don't know.


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## Chee (Dec 20, 2008)

As much as I love the Joker, new villian please.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 20, 2008)

Knox said:


> Why? WHY? WHY?
> 
> This is will be THE end all Batman movie series of all time. When all is said and done, if someone equal to Ledgers performance can be found, it will only make the SERIES as a whole better.



Although, it wouldn't be Ledger. Nitpicking as it sounds, a lot of viewers would see it as such, regardless of the talent of the actor.



> And No, I'm not saying the Joker should return in Part III. I'm saying he should return in Part IV.



IF there is a 4th movie. And that's a pretty big if. Plus, would Nolan even be interested in a 4th movie? Or Bale?



> The Joker is without any shred of doubt Batmans ultimate baddie. Having him be in one movie without any real closing to his story, only damages the continuity of the series.



To HIS story? I suppose. Logically, he goes to jail or Arkham Asylum and rests there, then later breaks out when he's ready.



> I.E. If Orlando Bloom died during the second film being filmed (yeah I know they were all filmed at once, but this is an example) and they had to continue making LOTR, they WOULD recast him.



And reshoot the Orlando Bloom scenes with the new actor, to keep to continuity.



> And that's not even taking into account the Joker is somewhat a larger role in Batman, than Legolas is in LOTR. Actually, I don't know.



Joker's the villain, but Batman is still the main character. Joker played out his role in the 2nd movie. No real need for him in the 3rd movie, unless you want a small, trivial cameo like Scarecrow in Dark Knight. Which didn't amount to much.


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## Grape (Dec 20, 2008)

Gummyvites said:


> AH you just spoiled Dexter.



I know  

I'll add Dexter spoilers to my OP....

I swear Ledger ripped off a lot of his Joker from this short glimpse of the real "Biney". They're eerily similar...

Right down to Brians face/throat and head movements, especially while saying "Who am I?" Which to me looks like a mirror of Ledgers "Why so serious?".. Their cheeks/lips even move the same o.O


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## Seany (Dec 20, 2008)

I say save the Joker for another time.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2008)

He won't be returning in the Nolan series. Too many people would protect. In respect for Ledger, until the series is remade again(and it will, as it's been remade like 4 times now), there will be no Joker.

So is the Batman 3 movie(which we dont even know will be made yet) going to be like Dragonball in that there is going to be a new thread for every little damn thing about it?


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## Starrk (Dec 20, 2008)

Like Chee said, Nolan made Joker teh smex again.

Don't try to improve on perfection. Try to make the Riddler better.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 20, 2008)

Cameo please, just like Scarecrow. Show him for like two minute then ship him off to Arkham.


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## Chee (Dec 20, 2008)

> Having him be in one movie without any real closing to his story,



Let the biggest Nolan fangirl in the world shine light upon you.

The Dark Knight and Batman Begins doesn't revolve around The Joker. It revolves around The Batman. In one of his interviews, Nolan stated that he didn't want the story to be about the Joker's beginning, like in B89, the joker was just going to be there to be the Joker and for Batman to be The Batman...which by the way, _is_ the main character.

We don't need closure on Joker's character, he is not what the series is about.



> Show him for like two minute then ship him off to Arkham.



He is probably already in Arkham. After Batman leaves him hanging on the building, the SWAT team comes in.


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## BAD BD (Dec 20, 2008)

I hate recasting. Not even because of Legder's death.


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## Stalin (Dec 20, 2008)

Besides, it would be noticeable if they did recast the joker in the current franschise. Recasting characters in series are often considered jump the shark moments It wouldn't same if ledger's joker was recast. Ledger created his own version of the joker that no else can do. iT'd be like not having mark hamill not vocing the joker in the DCAU.


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## MartialHorror (Dec 20, 2008)

Since the Joker didn't die, I imagine Nolan probably figured Heath might return in the same way the Scarecrow did.

But he died, and in respect, they won't bring him back. Either way, if it was just a cameo, that would be even worse. My biggest complaint of The Dark Knight was how dorky the Scarecrow's cameo was. A cameo'ing Joker would be worse, as the Joker was much more dangerous than Scarecrow(who in his prime, was a pawn to greater forces, and now is just crazy from taking a dose of his own medicine). 

lol, I was hoping those Ninja guys from "Begins" would cameo in TDK, trying to take down Joker. But then I remembered that Joker is doing what they wanted to do either way....


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## Chee (Dec 20, 2008)

> trying to take down Joker.



That would be so bad.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 20, 2008)

Chee said:


> He is probably already in Arkham. After Batman leaves him hanging on the building, the SWAT team comes in.



Arkham revolving door joke.


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## Juanita Tequila (Dec 20, 2008)

I think it's time to move on from the Joker...D:


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 20, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Cameo please, just like Scarecrow. Show him for like two minute then ship him off to Arkham.



A newspaper clipping headlining his arrest and sentence to Arkham Asylum will suffice.


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## Most_Valuable_Playa (Dec 21, 2008)

I don't think you're tarnishing his performance if the Joker is re-casted...
I believe a minor role for the Joker in the 3rd movie would be sufficient.


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## Chee (Dec 21, 2008)

Most_Valuable_Playa said:


> I don't think you're tarnishing his performance if the Joker is re-casted...
> I believe a minor role for the Joker in the 3rd movie would be sufficient.



That would be pointless.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 21, 2008)

Fan service is never pointless.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 21, 2008)

Scarecrow's cameo was pointless.


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## typhoon72 (Dec 21, 2008)

meh i dont care. Ledger did good but i mean if they originally planned to have Joker in the third for a little bit, get someone else. Theres gotta be someone who can play the joker just as well or better


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## Spencer_Gator (Dec 22, 2008)

I say leave the Joker alone. Bring in someone new.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 22, 2008)

Christian Bale should just play dual-roles and play Joker as well.


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## Grape (Dec 22, 2008)

Chee said:


> That would be pointless.



It would be pointless...

I however, from the moment I walked out of TDK IMAX (first viewing) decided in my mind that the third film should end with Joker escaping from prison and the fourth film start with him being the main villain of the movie. Also, I figured it should be the final in the series.

The problem with Nolans movies and the Batman series, is that villains aren't always "realistic"... Obviously the same could be said for the Spider-Man movies, and personally was a huge suck factor for me in the third installment. Sandman was a horrible choice.. :|

So, who could be in the 4th Nolan movie? Riddler is the fan-favorite for the third. Along with my previously described visions for the third and fourth films, I hoped the Riddler would break Joker out of Arkham and team up in the fourth.. or introduce Harley Quinn treating Joker, make it obvious he's been seeing her for psychiatric treatment for a good time, long enough to make it seem like she _could_ have fallen in love with him by the end. Then have her break him out 

Ledger was amazing, but they made it obvious the Joker would be in more movies. Nolan wanted him to break out sometime during the third movie... Also I believe this is supported by the fact Nolan didn't know if he would even continue. So obviously, Joker was to be the Voldemort of Nolans series.

Not replacing Ledger almost cripples the future of the series, because it limits Nolans creativity... I believe Nolan has the entire series planned, probably not written in full, but planned. Ledger being dead possibly hurts the reception of the series, if he is recast. Then again, it hurts Nolans *original vision* for the series as a whole.


Like I said before in my OP, this WILL BE THE END ALL OF BATMAN MOVIE SERIES! Most likely it will be the greatest comic movie series of all time! Taking on movie/book series written by exceptional authors, LOTR and HP.. Which to me is saying a lot in itself. And this was the point I was trying to make as well... In the end Nolans series will be more along the lines of an actual book and not a comic book. He brings to the table, the same thing LOTR and HP.. PSYCHOLOGY! He's building characters, realistic personalities, motives everything that makes a good book, a GOOD BOOK.




NOW! Do you want to read a second rate version of your favorite book? an incomplete story? 

Or, do you want to read the book in its entirety.



Don't be irrational, just because one man did an outstanding take on a character. The man is gone, but the character needs to remain, so the story can be told as it was originally imagined.


P.S. Another actor CAN be found. I'm not trying to take away anything from Ledgers performance, because he was insanely talented. Someone can play this role though, it's hard to imagine, but I feel I am making the correct judgement in saying replace Heath Ledger. My best guess would be someone off a stage, and not a movie only actor. <---random statement


P.S.S. If no one can be found then yes, they should not even attempt the replacement. I'm only saying that they should do a thorough audition worldwide, and if they can't find a suitable replacement, then end the Jokers appearances in the movies. Aka "a newspaper headline reading Jokers sentence to Arkham Asylum" as someone else said above..


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## excellence153 (Dec 22, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> A newspaper clipping headlining his arrest and sentence to Arkham Asylum will suffice.



I can agree with that.  :amazed


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## Al-Yasa (Dec 22, 2008)

i think they should still have two face


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 22, 2008)

Knox said:


> It would be pointless...
> 
> I however, from the moment I walked out of TDK IMAX (first viewing) decided in my mind that the third film should end with Joker escaping from prison and the fourth film start with him being the main villain of the movie.



Assuming that Nolan even WANT a 4th film to be done. This is pure speculation.



> Also, I figured it should be the final in the series.



Again, speculation.



> The problem with Nolans movies and the Batman series, is that villains aren't always "realistic"...



How so? The ninjutsu, League of Shadows, yes. . . but the character of the villains? They are extreme examples of potential characters. . . but no more so than what we find in fiction.



> Obviously the same could be said for the Spider-Man movies, and personally was a huge suck factor for me in the third installment. Sandman was a horrible choice.. :|



Spider-Man and Batman are different movies in tone, though.



> So, who could be in the 4th Nolan movie?



Bane.

A villain who's sole goal is to break the Batman.



> Riddler is the fan-favorite for the third. Along with my previously described visions for the third and fourth films, I hoped the Riddler would break Joker out of Arkham and team up in the fourth



(Assuming Riddler is the villain for the 3rd movie) Why would Riddler want to do that? What person would want to ally themselves with the Joker? Well, unless Nolan envisions Riddler to be that brave and daring.



> .. or introduce Harley Quinn treating Joker, make it obvious he's been seeing her for psychiatric treatment for a good time, long enough to make it seem like she _could_ have fallen in love with him by the end. Then have her break him out



A definite potential story, granted.



> Ledger was amazing, but they made it obvious the Joker would be in more movies. Nolan wanted him to break out sometime during the third movie... Also I believe this is supported by the fact Nolan didn't know if he would even continue. So obviously, Joker was to be the Voldemort of Nolans series.



Voldemort is the MAIN villain of the entire Harry Potter series. Joker, although he is the biggest, most famous and notorious enemy of Batman, isn't the ONLY villain that Batman has in his Rogues Gallery. There are other villains to explore and stories related to them.



> Not replacing Ledger almost cripples the future of the series, because it limits Nolans creativity... I believe Nolan has the entire series planned, probably not written in full, but planned. Ledger being dead possibly hurts the reception of the series, if he is recast. Then again, it hurts Nolans *original vision* for the series as a whole.



Assuming that Nolan has already planned the premises of the sequels. But he hasn't for the third movie, nor is he interested in doing one right now.



> Like I said before in my OP, this WILL BE THE END ALL OF BATMAN MOVIE SERIES! Most likely it will be the greatest comic movie series of all time!



Premise is one thing; execution is another.



> Taking on movie/book series written by exceptional authors, LOTR and HP.. Which to me is saying a lot in itself. And this was the point I was trying to make as well... In the end Nolans series will be more along the lines of an actual book and not a comic book. He brings to the table, the same thing LOTR and HP.. PSYCHOLOGY! He's building characters, realistic personalities, motives everything that makes a good book, a GOOD BOOK.



Assuming he wants to keep on doing the Batman films, or if his supposed plan for the series extends as far as you say.



> NOW! Do you want to read a second rate version of your favorite book? an incomplete story?
> 
> Or, do you want to read the book in its entirety.



I want a good film to watch and enjoy.



> Don't be irrational, just because one man did an outstanding take on a character. The man is gone, but the character needs to remain, so the story can be told as it was originally imagined.



If Nolan even imagined as much as you claim.



> P.S. Another actor CAN be found. I'm not trying to take away anything from Ledgers performance, because he was insanely talented. Someone can play this role though, it's hard to imagine, but I feel I am making the correct judgement in saying replace Heath Ledger. My best guess would be someone off a stage, and not a movie only actor. <---random statement



Regardless, a 4th film is pure speculation. The third film is more immediate, easier to speculate on.



> P.S.S. If no one can be found then yes, they should not even attempt the replacement. I'm only saying that they should do a thorough audition worldwide, and if they can't find a suitable replacement, then end the Jokers appearances in the movies. Aka "a newspaper headline reading Jokers sentence to Arkham Asylum" as someone else said above..



Worldwide audition? I don't think that's how they cast in movies.

Either the actor is selected by the director, or the agents of the actor gets a script that they think the actor is interested in doing, or the actor himself volunteers himself for the role.


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## Grape (Dec 22, 2008)

I can't imagine them not making a fourth film, or should I say, I couldn't see Nolan not intending to make a fourth(before even beginning). The pacing and development of Batman seems to be setup for more than three installments. 

Maybe film makers should undergo the LOTR formula for multiple part series. Shoot everything at once 

I think Victor Zsasz, Mad Hatter might be realistic options. Maybe


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## Gambitz (Dec 22, 2008)

Ledger isint going to be replaced in Nolan's universe and there isint going to be a fourth that takes place in Nolan's universe, Zack Snyder and Frank Millar are in talks to adapt the Dark knight returns comic book into a movie which just so happens to include the Joker, well an older Joker. Its possible that it could come out within the next 10 years or so.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 22, 2008)

A Frank Miller Batman movie.

Greatest Film of All Time.


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## Chee (Dec 22, 2008)

Frank Miller Batman? Was that the Batman that's old as hell and is an alcoholic and picks up a chick Robin? 


Amazing.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 22, 2008)

Knox said:


> I can't imagine them not making a fourth film,



If the third becomes a disappointment (still a possibility), then possibilities for a fourth will suffer.

First the third film, then people will talk about a fourth.



> or should I say, I couldn't see Nolan not intending to make a fourth(*before even beginning*).



Before even rebooting the franchise? Now that's too much of a stretch for Nolan's supposed foresight of the Batman franchise.



> The pacing and development of Batman seems to be setup for more than three installments.
> 
> Maybe film makers should undergo the LOTR formula for multiple part series. Shoot everything at once



I disagree. The sequels, I see in the same vein as the X-Men and Spider-Man franchises.

The kind of shooting you advertise is better suited for Sin City, with its anthology of stories.



> I think Victor Zsasz, Mad Hatter might be realistic options. Maybe



Holiday from Long Halloween. Deadshot. Ventriloquist. Some would argue Catwoman as well.

But Riddler and Bane would be most likely.

In addition:



> GB: Watching "The Dark Knight," it’s very easy to imagine the Joker returning to Gotham, the way his fate remains unresolved. *When you were writing the film, did you anticipate that the Joker would be back in the third film?*
> 
> NOLAN: *No, really and in truth, I only deal with one film at a time.* I find myself sort of protesting this issue a lot. We’ve never attempted to save anything for a sequel or set up anything for a sequel. That seems improbable to some people because, particularly with "Batman Begins," the film ended with a particular hook [with Jim Gordon showing Batman a Joker playing card announcing the arrival of a new villain in town]. But for me that was just about the excitement of people leaving the theater with the sense that now we have the character up and running. I wanted people to walk away with that sense in their head. You know, that he’s become the Batman in the movie. That’s why we had the title come up at the end, because it was "Batman Begins," and it was all very specific to that.
> 
> ...



Like I said, third first, THEN speculate a fourth.


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## mystictrunks (Dec 24, 2008)

Chee said:


> Frank Miller Batman? Was that the Batman that's old as hell and is an alcoholic and picks up a chick Robin?



Yes, but now that Frank's gone off the deep end a DKR movie would be completely out there.


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## juujuu (Dec 31, 2008)

Comic Book Guy said:


> I stand firmly that the role of Joker should be left alone, and a new villain to debut in the third movie.



I agree completely. Any new Joker will be directly compared to Heath. And they won't compare. Heath was simply brilliant. Now he is dead. How can you compete with the dead??

YOU CAN'T.

On another note, I heard Johnny Depp might play The Riddler. ;p


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## Chee (Dec 31, 2008)

juujuu said:


> On another note, I heard Johnny Depp might play The Riddler. ;p



You heard wrong.


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