# Females who wear a hijab...



## Polaris (Jan 31, 2018)

So, I've noticed that a lot of women who wear hijab tend to put on a ton of make-up. And I always ask myself, "Why?" I mean, it totally defeats the purpose. The purpose of wearing a hijab, is apparently to cover up a physical trait that is appealing to the opposite gender; Long and feminine hair. So if they enhance the beauty of their facial features by applying make-up, why do they bother wearing a hijab?

I'm not being judgmental. It's just something that I'm curious about.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 31, 2018)

A lot of women wear a hijab and modest clothing against their will, if they had the option to not wear it then they wouldn't.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Kira Yagami (Jan 31, 2018)

Yea,I think most muslim girls have forgetten what the hijab is supposed to mean or theyve disregarded it and so they only wear it as an obligation due to their religion


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## Mider T (Jan 31, 2018)

I'm more confused about the beautiful clothes underneath the jilbab.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Deleted member 235437 (Jan 31, 2018)

I can’t respect women who wear the hijab, subsequently I can’t resprct women who follow Islam. 

The hijab to me represents everything Islam does which is sexism, misogyny, and disrespect for women. The way I see it if men can wear whatever the fuck they want, then women should be too. Men can “lower their gaze” but women have to cover up and that’s bs. 

Plus most hijabis who wear t don’t have a choice. And even if they did they didn’t really if they’re Muslim which again I don’t respect

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 3


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## Mider T (Jan 31, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> resprct





Khaleesi said:


> I can’t respect women who wear the hijab, subsequently I can’t resprct women who follow Islam.



Even your family?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Deleted member 235437 (Jan 31, 2018)

Mider T said:


> Even your family?


My dad is an atheist, and my mom doesn’t wear it and barely practices (only for Ramadan) 

I love my extended family but they’re dumb for following Islam and I also blame it for how women are treated in Kurdistan


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## Cheeky (Jan 31, 2018)

Just strike up a conversation with one of these women and ask them about it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Polaris (Jan 31, 2018)

Cheeky said:


> Just strike up a conversation with one of these women and ask them about it.



I see no point in doing that, since they'd probably get really defensive about it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Cheeky (Jan 31, 2018)

That depends how well you ask.


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## Subarashii (Jan 31, 2018)

I've had Muslim girls talk openly about their religion in one of my college courses. One girl didn't wear a hijab, but she still practiced.
From what I gathered, they can take off the modest clothes when they get home so they still want to look good for their future husbands.  There's a passage about looking good ((always)) for your husbando, but don't quote me on it.
As far as I know, the quran doesn't say you need to wear a hijab, it just talks about being modest, for men and women.


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## Polaris (Jan 31, 2018)

Cheeky said:


> That depends how well you ask.



Wanna bet? There’s no doubt in my mind that they’ll take offense if I ask, no matter how politely I do it. They’ll probably respond with, “mind your own business” or “get a life” or something along those lines. You’ll see that I’m right.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Disagree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Subarashii (Jan 31, 2018)

Polaris said:


> Wanna bet? There’s no doubt in my mind that they’ll take offense if I ask, no matter how politely I do it. They’ll probably respond with, “mind your own business” or “get a life” or something along those lines. You’ll see that I’m right.


Who hurt you?


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## Polaris (Jan 31, 2018)

Subarashii said:


> Who hurt you?



The Muslim girls that I've crossed paths with in my life, have been quite touchy when they've been asked things about their religion. They automatically assume that you're judging them, simply by asking.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 31, 2018)

Polaris said:


> The Muslim girls that I've crossed paths with in my life, have been quite touchy when they've been asked things about their religion. They automatically assume that you're judging them, simply by asking.


Sorry about that, I'll be more polite next time you talk to me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Kuzehiko (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> Wanna bet? There’s no doubt in my mind that they’ll take offense if I ask, no matter how politely I do it. They’ll probably respond with, “mind your own business” or “get a life” or something along those lines. You’ll see that I’m right.


This is completely accurate. 
The worst part is they take you as a stalker or that's what's happened to me when I asked that to a muslim woman..  I was only curious about the hijab traditions.


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## Darkmatter (Feb 1, 2018)

In some regions that I know of, a hijab (more notably the color of the cloth) is a symbol that identifies which tribe you associate with.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Island (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> Wanna bet? There’s no doubt in my mind that they’ll take offense if I ask, no matter how politely I do it. They’ll probably respond with, “mind your own business” or “get a life” or something along those lines. You’ll see that I’m right.


You're either talking to the wrong people or don't know how to address sensitive topics. You're asking them questions that concerns their culture and religion. It should go without saying these conversations aren't something you callously start with strangers.

Also:



Polaris said:


> They automatically assume that you're judging them, simply by asking.





Polaris said:


> And I always ask myself, "Why?" I mean, it totally defeats the purpose. The purpose of wearing a hijab, is apparently to cover up a physical trait that is appealing to the opposite gender; Long and feminine hair. So if they enhance the beauty of their facial features by applying make-up, why do they bother wearing a hijab?


You're definitely judging, bruh.


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> The Muslim girls that I've crossed paths with in my life, have been quite touchy when they've been asked things about their religion. They automatically assume that you're judging them, simply by asking.



really? religious people tend to want to convert other people, so that sounds unusual to say the least.


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## Polaris (Feb 1, 2018)

Island said:


> You're definitely judging, bruh.



Seriously? Not sure if you’re being sarcastic. I’m genuinely just curious about why they do it.



ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ said:


> really? religious people tend to want to convert other people, so that sounds unusual to say the least.



Perhaps they see no point in trying to convert other people anymore, due to Islamophobia.


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## Island (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> Seriously? Not sure if you’re being sarcastic. I’m genuinely just curious about why they do it.


Yes, seriously.

You're pointing out a believed contradiction and asking for justifications. That's a judgment. I won't comment whether or not I believe that it's a correct judgment, but it's nonetheless a judgment.

You _can _ask about a believed contradiction without being judgmental, but it involves tact and probably doesn't include phrasing like "why do they bother" and "totally defeats the purpose."

More broadly, if you phrase it this way when you ask people, it's no surprise they respond negatively. You're making it sound like that have to justify their behavior; nobody responds well to having to justify themselves.


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## Polaris (Feb 1, 2018)

Island said:


> Yes, seriously.
> 
> You're pointing out a believed contradiction and asking for justifications. That's a judgment. I won't comment whether or not I believe that it's a correct judgment, but it's nonetheless a judgment.
> 
> ...



I get what you’re saying. But how should I phrase my question in order to not offend anyone, then?


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> So, I've noticed that a lot of women who wear hijab tend to put on a ton of make-up. And I always ask myself, "Why?" I mean, it totally defeats the purpose. The purpose of wearing a hijab, is apparently to cover up a physical trait that is appealing to the opposite gender; Long and feminine hair. So if they enhance the beauty of their facial features by applying make-up, why do they bother wearing a hijab?
> 
> I'm not being judgmental. It's just something that I'm curious about.


There are females who wear the hijab by choice and still do this in which case they are contradicting themselves/they don't understand the point of the hijab.

As for people saying they are forced/they would take it off if they were given the option, that is mostly for some muslim women living in western countries or the rare ones that don't and have been influenced by the west, those ones are "excused" from that contradiction in the sense that they're understanding of what the hijab is for is conflicted with freedom, etc.

The majority of muslim women living in arab/muslim countries or have lived there/grew up there already have the understanding that the hijab is about covering your feminine traits/beauty/whatever you wanna call it, so if they decide to wear lots of make up they are indeed contradicting that concept that they themselves believe. Now of course in the case that they are pressured to do it that is something else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Island (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> I get what you’re saying. But how should I phrase my question in order to not offend anyone, then?


Generally, you don't want to make it sound like the other person has to justify their choice or make it sound like you've already decided how you feel about it. If you approach somebody with genuine interest and curiosity, I'm sure most people would be happy to oblige.

I would just say something like "Can you tell me more about hijabs and your decision to wear one? I'd like to know more about the topic." Maybe not as robotic, obviously, but still something along those lines. Again, it's asking somebody about their culture/religion, so it's something that's inherently sensitive.

Granted, I don't think this is an appropriate question to ask somebody who you're not at least acquaintances with, but that also depends on the context. It's difficult to give a hard and fast rule about engaging with other people; it's usually context dependent.



Shark said:


> You're not judgemental you're correct about your observation.


These aren't mutually exclusive. One can be correct and be judgmental about it.


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

Island said:


> These aren't mutually exclusive. One can be correct and be judgmental about it.


I edited my post.


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## Ashi (Feb 1, 2018)

I don’t think the act of wearing a Hijab in itself is oppressive. There’s a level of cultural significance placed into it that isn’t necessarily demeaning

It should always be someone’s choice to wear it and not forced upon them.


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## Ashi (Feb 1, 2018)

@Khaleesi 

I would suggest moving this to the debate corner since it’s a political topic

Up to you tho.


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 1, 2018)

Ashi said:


> @Khaleesi
> 
> I would suggest moving this to the debate corner since it’s a political topic
> 
> Up to you tho.


I deleted the posts. Not fair to Polaris to have it moved somewhere she probably doesn’t want because of me lmao 


This topic just gets me heated

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ashi (Feb 1, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> I deleted the posts. Not fair to Polaris to have it moved somewhere she probably doesn’t want because of me lmao
> 
> 
> This topic just gets me heated


Ok... fair enough


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## Kisame (Feb 1, 2018)

Where did the posts disappear?


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## Dayscanor (Feb 1, 2018)

Polaris said:


> So, I've noticed that a lot of women who wear hijab tend to put on a ton of make-up. And I always ask myself, "Why?" I mean, it totally defeats the purpose. The purpose of wearing a hijab, is apparently to cover up a physical trait that is appealing to the opposite gender; Long and feminine hair. So if they enhance the beauty of their facial features by applying make-up, why do they bother wearing a hijab?
> 
> I'm not being judgmental. It's just something that I'm curious about.


Because everyone have their own notion of what Islam is, as it should be.

Islam is contrary to what people believe not as standardized , at least it used to be that way, before the Wahabbism model was promoted, through the influence of countries like Saudi Arabia who under the guise of helping other countries, like in the Balkans, they pretty much put their  beliefs in the forefront, often completely wiping out the traditions of said countries they were helping.

For example, in my country women used to wear something called the Hayk, which is less covering and is usually a white cloath that they used to wrap around their waist, and that slightly covered their heads.And towards the end of the 60s most women stopped wearing it, and while some would wear a scarf (not Islamic hijab) it wasn't really about religion, so much as it was to signify their status of a married woman.It was seldom worn by young, unmarried women.

Then towards the 70s- early 90s, women had enjoyed a lot of freedom in terms of what they could wear, before satellite TV and preachers who were often bought  by SA decided that we'd be better off just looking like the Saudis. Anyway Islam has always been less unified, and it's only in the past two decades or so that we've seen a clear attempt to unify Muslims, by having them all follow the example of Wahhabism mainly, but also to some extent  Iranians, since their Islamic revolution has been deemed a success.

I don't wear the hijab myself, and never been tempted to, with my thick curly hair and all it won't be very practical. But generally a lot of girls my age used to wear it out of fashion basically, they really weren't that religious and they all ended up removing it at some point. Those who were  religious actually would rarely or never wear makeup. And some of them are the best people I've ever met.

As for what I think of Hijab, and women who wear it. I think it can be quite tempting to judge people based on their appearance, which if you're in  a humanist is clearly the wrong thing to do. And basically I think everyone is worthy of respect, regardless of his skin, hair colour, or what he wears or doesn't wear. Because not respecting someone based on their appearance, without so much as knowing how the person is deep down, is just bigotry . But that's just me.

I do not in any way endorse wearing Hijab, or being religious, in fact I'm pretty much agnostic, but I think everyone is worthy of respect regardless of whether they dress like a nun, or an actual harlot.And I'm a firm believer in freedom, I have no business telling people what to wear, even if it's for their own good.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 3


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## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 2, 2018)

Ashi said:


> I don’t think the act of wearing a Hijab in itself is oppressive. There’s a level of cultural significance placed into it that isn’t necessarily demeaning
> 
> It should always be someone’s choice to wear it and not forced upon them.


Well, the act of wearing a hijab is to shield yourself from the male gaze.  This is a gender specific action since Muslim men aren't culturally or religiously obligated or expected to shield themselves from the female gaze.  The onus of modesty is placed on women, and in order to preserve that modesty which they are exclusively tasked with maintaining, they have to partially conceal their visual identity in public.  Their appearance is privatized by their husbands while their husbands' appearance aren't privatized by their wives.  You can make an argument that what emerges out of this cultural and religious ethos is a sexist double standard that pressures women to forfeit part of their status in public life exclusively to honor their husbands, parents or brothers.  It ties into the objectification of the female body and the attitude that men should ultimately have power over it, whether in full or in part.  

That's not to say wearing a hijab means that you're being oppressed, but the social order you sponsor by doing so is categorically oppressive.


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## Polaris (Feb 2, 2018)

Island said:


> Generally, you don't want to make it sound like the other person has to justify their choice or make it sound like you've already decided how you feel about it. If you approach somebody with genuine interest and curiosity, I'm sure most people would be happy to oblige.
> 
> I would just say something like "Can you tell me more about hijabs and your decision to wear one? I'd like to know more about the topic." Maybe not as robotic, obviously, but still something along those lines. Again, it's asking somebody about their culture/religion, so it's something that's inherently sensitive.
> 
> Granted, I don't think this is an appropriate question to ask somebody who you're not at least acquaintances with, but that also depends on the context. It's difficult to give a hard and fast rule about engaging with other people; it's usually context dependent.



I agree that the question shouldn’t be posed to someone you don’t know well. I just don’t think I’d get an answer to my question by beating around the bush. Sure, I could ask her why she’s chosen to wear a hijab.

Perhaps she had no choice in the matter. But I think that someone who’s been forced into wearing a hijab, would be too ashamed to admit it. So she might tell a lie or storm off without answering the question.

Maybe she’ll explain that she’s a devout Muslim by choice and that she’s wearing a hijab for the reason that I mentioned in my original post. And then I’d just be sitting there and thinking to myself, “Okay, so why are you wearing make-up?”


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## WT (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> I can’t respect women who wear the hijab, subsequently I can’t resprct women who follow Islam.
> 
> The hijab to me represents everything Islam does which is sexism, misogyny, and disrespect for women. The way I see it if men can wear whatever the fuck they want, then women should be too. Men can “lower their gaze” but women have to cover up and that’s bs.
> 
> Plus most hijabis who wear t don’t have a choice. And even if they did they didn’t really if they’re Muslim which again I don’t respect



So you're effectively trying to say you disrespect women who wear hijabs but some of them are forced to but you don't care about that because you'll still disrespect them because they are muslims?

You and Trump will get on swimmingly

Reactions: Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 2, 2018)

WT said:


> So you're effectively trying to say you disrespect women who wear hijabs but some of them are forced to but you don't care about that because you'll still disrespect them because they are muslims?
> 
> You and Trump will get on swimmingly


Of course you would nitpick, it was implied I’m talking about the ones that advocate for it and preach about how amazing it is. Mainly the western ones who live confoetable lives and don’t care about the women who are forced to wear it in the Middle East.


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## WT (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> Of course you would nitpick, it was implied I’m talking about the ones that advocate for it and preach about how amazing it is. Mainly the western ones who live confoetable lives and don’t care about the women who are forced to wear it in the Middle East.



I haven't nitpicked merely stated exactly what you said but now you're backpeddling...at least I think you are.

Anyway I predicted that you would be a revenge negger. Got that from your classless posting style in the cafe. You've done well to become a mod, given you show the same attributes as a bitter troll.

"you sound mad loooooooooooool" - the message you revenge negged me with actually shows that you're the one whos butthurt...anyway I disrespect anyone who revenge negs because it shows desperation. 

Now don't do a Megaharrison and delete this post because you can't handle it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WT (Feb 2, 2018)

afgpride said:


> Well, the act of wearing a hijab is to shield yourself from the male gaze.  This is a gender specific action since Muslim men aren't culturally or religiously obligated or expected to shield themselves from the female gaze.  The onus of modesty is placed on women, and in order to preserve that modesty which they are exclusively tasked with maintaining, they have to partially conceal their visual identity in public.  Their appearance is privatized by their husbands while their husbands' appearance aren't privatized by their wives.  You can make an argument that what emerges out of this cultural and religious ethos is a sexist double standard that pressures women to forfeit part of their status in public life exclusively to honor their husbands, parents or brothers.  It ties into the objectification of the female body and the attitude that men should ultimately have power over it, whether in full or in part.
> 
> That's not to say wearing a hijab means that you're being oppressed, but the social order you sponsor by doing so is categorically oppressive.



Its unfortunate that in a lot of Muslim majority countries, attitudes of men have changed such that they view non hijab wearing women as sluts and harrass them. Its reached the point that for women not to be harrassed, they have to wear the hijab.

But naturally, that's a very negative attribute of society as in a perfect world, women should have the right to be left alone irregardless of what they wear

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Itachі (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> I deleted the posts. Not fair to Polaris to have it moved somewhere she probably doesn’t want because of me lmao
> 
> This topic just gets me heated



You might as well delete ur original post as well if you don't want the thread to turn into an off-topic debate.


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## ЯƎWO⅃ᖷ (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> Of course you would nitpick, it was implied I’m talking about the ones that advocate for it and preach about how amazing it is. Mainly the western ones who live confoetable lives and don’t care about the women who are forced to wear it in the Middle East.



This reminds me: being familiar with both the uae and kuwait, I find the contrast between countries fascinating. For instance, most Kuwaiti women do not wear hijab. In fact when you see them vacationing in Europe, the only way one would identify them is by their heavy perfume and affinity for designer wear (no shade). In spite of this, kuwait is a very conservative country with conservative values. On the other hand In the uae, most women wear abaya- almost exclusively- despite this country being modern in most ways (nightclubs, bars, alcohol etc). I wonder if it will be different here in another sixty years, values wise.

I think hijab is a small issue (I know plenty of girls who wear it and then take it off the instant they aren’t around family), compared to women being forced to marry someone from their country and sometimes even their tribe. One of my friends in Kuwait, an agnostic divorcee, had to end things with her Italian biyfriend/fiancé because her family refused their consent. He didn’t have enough money to provide for them both in his home country so disobeying the family wasn’t an option.


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 2, 2018)

WT said:


> I haven't nitpicked merely stated exactly what you said but now you're backpeddling...at least I think you are.
> 
> Anyway I predicted that you would be a revenge negger. Got that from your classless posting style in the cafe. You've done well to become a mod, given you show the same attributes as a bitter troll.
> 
> ...


You’re the one who begged me first lmao “revenge neg” after that I went back to sleep because I don’t worry or care about people like you  and again you sound really mad. 

“It shows desperation” wonder what that says about you


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 2, 2018)

Itachі said:


> You might as well delete ur original post as well if you don't want the thread to turn into an off-topic debate.


My post was just fine, thanks


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## Itachі (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> My post was just fine, thanks



don't you think that the thread will be derailed into a different debate if people keep responding to your post, like WT did today?


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 2, 2018)

Itachі said:


> don't you think that the thread will be derailed into a different debate if people keep responding to your post, like WT did today?


He responded because Mider t tagged him

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Itachі (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> He responded because Mider t tagged him



that's true, but i don't really see the point of deleting the other posts yesterday if you're gonna keep the post which sparked the off-topic discussion in the first place.


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## WT (Feb 2, 2018)

Khaleesi said:


> You’re the one who begged me first lmao “revenge neg” after that I went back to sleep because I don’t worry or care about people like you  and again you sound really mad.
> 
> “It shows desperation” wonder what that says about you



You effectively stated that you would lose respect for a person if they were a Muslim.

A bigoted statement like that did stir some emotions, I'll admit that, so if your aim was to get someone angry, you suceeded. Welldone.

I was also angry at Donald Trump when he proposed the Muslim ban or endorsed a right wing group in UK. 

Its regrettable that you're a Kurd, because I find them to be amazing people.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Deleted member 235437 (Feb 2, 2018)

WT said:


> You effectively stated that you would lose respect for a person if they were a Muslim.
> 
> A bigoted statement like that did stir some emotions, I'll admit that, so if your aim was to get someone angry, you suceeded. Welldone.
> 
> ...


Cool


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## A Optimistic (Feb 2, 2018)

Polaris said:


> The Muslim girls that I've crossed paths with in my life, have been quite touchy when they've been asked things about their religion. They automatically assume that you're judging them, simply by asking.



Well if you're scared to ask Muslim women this question in real life, why not ask it on Reddit in r/Islam? There's a bunch of Muslim women on there.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Polaris (Feb 2, 2018)

Ava said:


> Well if you're scared to ask Muslim women this question in real life, why not ask it on Reddit in r/Islam? There's a bunch of Muslim women on there.



I don’t have a Reddit account. I don’t want to pose this question to a total stranger. Like Island said, I should at least be acquainted with a Muslim woman who wears a hijab combined with a lot of make-up, so that she’ll know that I’m not a judgmental person before I pose that question.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kisame (Feb 2, 2018)

afgpride said:


> Well, the act of wearing a hijab is to shield yourself from the male gaze.  This is a gender specific action since Muslim men aren't culturally or religiously obligated or expected to shield themselves from the female gaze.  The onus of modesty is placed on women, and in order to preserve that modesty which they are exclusively tasked with maintaining, they have to partially conceal their visual identity in public.  Their appearance is privatized by their husbands while their husbands' appearance aren't privatized by their wives.  You can make an argument that what emerges out of this cultural and religious ethos is a sexist double standard that pressures women to forfeit part of their status in public life exclusively to honor their husbands, parents or brothers.  It ties into the objectification of the female body and the attitude that men should ultimately have power over it, whether in full or in part.
> 
> That's not to say wearing a hijab means that you're being oppressed, but the social order you sponsor by doing so is categorically oppressive.


Or maybe heterosexual men are more inclined to stare and sexualize women than women are to do to men?


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## Virus (Feb 2, 2018)

I have seen some variation on how the hijab is worn. There is a special way which actually is quite appealing to me, where the hijab (not black or brown but a colorful one) is worn in such a way, that it doesn't give you a moon face, but simply just covers the hair a little bit (not the neck or anything). I saw that once here where I live and it was nice. She was also good looking tho.

Here is a story of my experience with a strict muslim girl:

It was the last day of high school and we had decided to meet with some friends and walk together to school. I was first at the place and here was also this muslim girl. Since it was the last day I went for a hug but to my surprise (ignorance), she denies the hug and points at the parking lot. There is her father still on the car lmaooo looking at her. The muslim girl clearly saw that I got surprised so she apologized and told me that she would give me a hug later, and she did.

Her father must have felt very proud of his daughter denying me

Reactions: Like 3 | Friendly 1


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## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 3, 2018)

Shark said:


> Or maybe heterosexual men are more inclined to stare and sexualize women than women are to do to men?


Never understood this delusional idea that only men think along the lines of attraction when looking at people.  Whether or not they're more likely doesn't justify the practice at all, because there is _no_ expectation or reward for them to guard their appearance.  If they are coveted it's the woman's fault for having no shame or decency.  If the woman is coveted it's still their fault for exposing themselves.  This cultural sexism goes back a long way.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## John Wick (Feb 3, 2018)

afgpride said:


> Never understood this delusional idea that only men think along the lines of attraction when looking at people.


idk like it must be exhausting eyefucking every woman you see, like the creativity needed to craft each fantasy must take a bit of time, how do men get anything done?


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## Kisame (Feb 3, 2018)

afgpride said:


> Never understood this delusional idea that only men think along the lines of attraction when looking at people.  Whether or not they're more likely doesn't justify the practice at all, because there is _no_ expectation or reward for them to guard their appearance.


They fact they are more likely (much more dare i say) does bring some explanation as to why its exclusively women who are told to cover up. Now I'm not saying you can't still ask questions about the degree of covering and question if its too much and label it an oppression from that aspect - but it's certainly not a pure double standard.


> If they are coveted it's the woman's fault for having no shame or decency. If the woman is coveted it's still their fault for exposing themselves.


Women aren't blamed for "being coveted" they are faulted for "improper dresscode", if she is covered in abayah and a guy approaches her or desires her she is not fault, she is only questioned for the way she dresses, Islamically speaking.

As for men if they are coveted because of their game/approaching a woman/talking to her than both parties are at fault.

Basically what I'm trying to say is there's a behavioural outlook on this issue; that is men are more likely to stare and like, women are less likely to do so.

And btw the degree of infatuation also goes against the men here as they tend to go over the limits much more than women do as well.

So it's not that simple I guess is what I'm trying to say...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## John Wick (Feb 3, 2018)

Shark said:


> They fact they are more likely (much more dare i say) does bring some explanation as to why its exclusively women who are told to cover up. Now I'm not saying you can't still ask questions about the degree of covering and question if its too much and label it an oppression from that aspect - but it's certainly not a pure double standard.
> 
> Women aren't blamed for "being coveted" they are faulted for "improper dresscode", if she is covered in abayah and a guy approaches her or desires her she is not fault, she is only questioned for the way she dresses, Islamically speaking.
> 
> ...


so what the solution is to cover women up rather than to change this obvious behaviour flaw in some men?

it's not fucking hard not to try to fuck everything with a pulse because she's not covered head to toe and it's a fucking bullshit excuse to try adn lay some kind of blame at women, I'm not fucking womens right activist, but if a woman wants to dress how she feels comfortable but some men are just depraved savages so the solution is to cover them up because they bring out shameful behaviour rather than trying to address it, and teach them not to be animals you're literally prolonging the issue.


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## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 3, 2018)

Shark said:


> They fact they are more likely (much more dare i say)


What evidence do you even have of this?  Sounds like something you were either institutionalized to assume because women aren't going around commenting on these things out loud, or a roundabout justification for the practice altogether.

Keep in mind we're not talking about bikinis vs men being shirtless.  We're talking about covered heads vs not covered heads.  Females find males "cute" or "handsome" just as males find females "cute" or "pretty".  Culture just suggests how these feelings are allowed to manifest into speech or behavior.  You're fighting an uphill battle when you suggest men find women cute on the basis of their exposed heads dramatically more than vice versa.



> does bring some explanation as to why its exclusively women who are told to cover up. Now I'm not saying you can't still ask questions about the degree of covering and question if its too much and label it an oppression from that aspect - but it's certainly not a pure double standard.


Of course it is a pure double standard.  One is required/rewarded/expected to hide themselves and the other is not.  Both find the opposite sex attractive when their heads are uncovered.  The fact that both aren't walking around in masks and hijabs is a distinction made _purely_ on sexism.



> Women aren't blamed for "being coveted" they are faulted for "improper dresscode",


Which is the same thing? 



> if she is covered in abayah and a guy approaches her or desires her she is not fault, she is only questioned for the way she dresses, Islamically speaking.


And if she isn't covered in abayah and a guy approaches her and desires her she is at fault.  If a man is equally uncovered and a woman approaches him it's the woman's fault, culturally speaking.  The dress code pertains directly to social conduct between the sexes, and pins responsibility exclusivity to women dress wise.



> As for men if they are coveted because of their game/approaching a woman/talking to her than both parties are at fault.


Why aren't you addressing the problem at hand?  If a man is minding his own business, and a woman covets him, the woman is at fault.  If a woman is minding her own business without a hijab and a man covets her, she's at fault.  This is an open shut double standard.



> Basically what I'm trying to say is there's a behavioural outlook on this issue; that is men are more likely to stare and like, women are less likely to do so.
> 
> And btw the degree of infatuation also goes against the men here as they tend to go over the limits much more than women do as well.
> 
> So it's not that simple I guess is what I'm trying to say...


Which is not a very strong defense.  It reads as Saudi style sophistry that attempts to justify a legacy of misogyny with cherry-picked factoids about likelihoods and less likelihoods of thinking a certain way about the opposite sex.  You haven't shown why men are actually that much more likely to find an exposed head attractive than a woman, but even if you were granted that, it doesn't explain why men aren't required to hide themselves while women are.


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## Kisame (Feb 3, 2018)

afgpride said:


> What evidence do you even have of this?  Sounds like something you were either institutionalized to assume because women aren't going around commenting on these things out loud, or a roundabout justification for the practice altogether.
> 
> Keep in mind we're not talking about bikinis vs men being shirtless.  *We're talking about covered heads vs not covered heads.*  Females find males "cute" or "handsome" just as males find females "cute" or "pretty".  Culture just suggests how these feelings are allowed to manifest into speech or behavior.  You're fighting an uphill battle when you suggest men find women cute on the basis of their exposed heads dramatically more than vice versa.
> 
> ...


No, that's what _you're _talking about, I already specified in my post that the degree of covering is a valid point of criticism.


> Now I'm not saying you can't still ask questions about the degree of covering and question if its too much and label it an oppression from that aspect - but it's certainly not a pure double standard.



I don't know what the specifics are for what counts as "proper dress code" in Islam so I can't say much about that here.

In my opinion Islam holds a "traditional" view on this matter, which brings up the point of female bodies vs male bodies:

Basically: Woman's bodies are not like men's (i.e a topless man is not like a topless woman), they are more "sexual". That could be a cause of the attraction, or an added fact to men's increased horniness but the result is the same.

^In my view that's how Islam views this subject in general.




John Wick said:


> so what the solution is to cover women up rather than to change this obvious behaviour flaw in some men?
> 
> it's not fucking hard not to try to fuck everything with a pulse because she's not covered head to toe and it's a fucking bullshit excuse to try adn lay some kind of blame at women, I'm not fucking womens right activist, but if a woman wants to dress how she feels comfortable but some men are just depraved savages so the solution is to cover them up because they bring out shameful behaviour rather than trying to address it, and teach them not to be animals you're literally prolonging the issue.


I'm not saying any of that...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Deleted member 198194 (Feb 3, 2018)

Shark said:


> No, that's what _you're _talking about, I already specified in my post that the degree of covering is a valid point of criticism.
> 
> 
> I don't know what the specifics are for what counts as "proper dress code" in Islam so I can't say much about that here.
> ...


I'm not sure what you're even arguing for at this point.  This thread is about hijabs, my post was about hijabs, my point is about hijabs.  If you don't have a defense for women being expected to cover their heads and men not being expected to cover their heads, then you're creating a new discussion I'm not interested in.


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## Kisame (Feb 3, 2018)

afgpride said:


> I'm not sure what you're even arguing for at this point.  This thread is about hijabs, my post was about hijabs, my point is about hijabs.  If you don't have a defense for women being expected to cover their heads and men not being expected to cover their heads, then you're creating a new discussion I'm not interested in.


I can't articulate my words quite like you but I think what I said was clear enough. Sorry you couldn't get what I was trying to say.


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