# Cronos vs Zeno



## Id (Jan 27, 2017)

Cronos (Saint Seiya Ep G)

VS

Zeno (Dragonball Super)


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## Adamant soul (Jan 27, 2017)

From what I know Saint Seiya top tiers (hell even the high tiers due to hax and speed) shit on DB top tiers so I feel confident saying that Zeno gets stomped here.


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## Agent9149 (Jan 27, 2017)

Zeno hasn't shown anything to be able to deal with the embodiment of time and the macrocosm of the Saint Seiya verse.


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## Fang (Jan 27, 2017)

>Chronos

There is no Chronos in Episode G. There is a *Cronos/Kronos* but it feels like this is done as a direct reaction to the AE vs Hakai thread.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## saint rider 890 (Jan 27, 2017)

Lock this thread because this is rape in SS favour . Not only that but also SS always have more advantage in everything compare to DBS .

Shitstorm will be happeing if someone doen't lock this thread .


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## bitethedust (Jan 27, 2017)

Not so long ago we had a thread in which someone way weaker than Cronos also from SS, stomped Zeno. What made you think this was a good idea?


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## saint rider 890 (Jan 27, 2017)

Who knows maybe OP bored so he decide repeating same thread.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 28, 2017)

Chronos is too much dude.

He is the strongest thing so far in SS.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

Mismatch 

also Chronos and Cronos are two Diffrent beings. the one from episode G is cronos/kronos a titan, where Chronos from ND is a primodial god of time

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

Orochibuto said:


> Chronos is too much dude.
> 
> He is the strongest thing so far in SS.



Cronos is the strongest, not Chronos.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

nah. Chronos is the strongest deity in series thus far


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

Nah, because the only two with statements of being the strongest are Cronos/Kronos and Zeus.

>Melas Planetas he's a casual multiversal
>absorbing his Megas Drapion he's beyond time-space in a multiversal scale

Chronos best feat is turning Athena into a baby casually.

Even G shows Primordial Gods are weaker then the top dogs of the Olypmians and Titans.

Cronos >Uranus the strongest Primordial and Gaia's husband. Uranus > then Pontos. Pontos is stronger then all the other Titans save Cronos. Zeus defeated and sealed all the Titans after gaining Coeus' Keuranos. He also defeated Pontos as well.


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## Agent9149 (Jan 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> Nah, because the only two with statements of being the strongest are Cronos/Kronos and Zeus.
> 
> >Melas Planetas he's a casual multiversal
> >absorbing his Megas Drapion he's beyond time-space in a multiversal scale
> ...



Where does Gaia stand? Didn't she create Megas Drapion?


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

i get what you mean. that  chronos lacks sufficient proof of him being the strongest. but dude is warping all of timelines/universes in verse into his personal dimension. and could likely destroy all em if he wants


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## Orochibuto (Jan 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> Nah, because the only two with statements of being the strongest are Cronos/Kronos and Zeus.
> 
> >Melas Planetas he's a casual multiversal
> >absorbing his Megas Drapion he's beyond time-space in a multiversal scale
> ...



Wasnt Chronos stated to TRASCEND the Olympians?

I might be misremembering.


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## Agent9149 (Jan 28, 2017)

Fang said:


> shit > Thanatos/Hypnos



that casual Twin Gods slander  (they're actual my favorite: more to do with their appearance to Lost Canvas but that's a different story)


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

Twin Gods are fun baddies but their pretty much the weakest confirmed gods until you have those even lower end god Specters being their direct minions they get in LC. In fact several of the Gold Saints fight people as strong if not stronger then them in their Gaidens. Asmita defeated a guy who was basically an evil Shaka and removed him from the wheel of reincarnation despite the guy being ridiculously broken and mastering the 8th Sense, just to top it right there.


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

We have feats of both Zeus and Cronos beating and overpowering other Primordial Gods. The statement about Zeus being the strongest and then Cronos comes from Kurumada's own mouth though. So its not like its based just off in-universe statements from characters who don't know better.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

oh well, i conceed then 

Kurumada better explore more about this dude, but he is too buzy putting ND on hiatus again smh


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

To be fair he keeps taking hiatuses because he was supervising G and now Assassin.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

he is at his 60`s, and he still hasn`t started the Zeus-chapter 
i feel like by the time he finished the current arc, he`ll be too old to start the zeus-chapter. and he`ll give it to Okada to make it. and he`ll simple keep supervising it like he is doing with episode G/Assassin


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

Araki is nearly the same age.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 28, 2017)

In fairness, Kurumada looks to be in tip top shape for someone his age as does Okada. If he hits his 70s, then it might be a bigger problem but I think his other projects are what's keeping ND releases from coming out as regularly.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

he is working on two projects iirc: Kojiro and Episode G/Assassin 

other than next - dimension


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

He's stated that the main reason for the hiatus he took so often for ND was over G as has Okada himself because G's plot was so important in Saint Seiya canon. He didn't do that with LC though.

Though Okada also took his own hiatuses and the guy's age shouldn't be relevant because Okada is in his late 20s or early 30s.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 28, 2017)

Okada's 30 last I heard. From what photographs I've seen of him, he looks pretty fit. Kurumada does too which is why I wouldn't worry about his age so much unless he's pushing 70 and still writing Saint Seiya. I feel by then he would retire and hand the reigns off to Okada.


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## SF latif (Jan 28, 2017)

well, the reason i want Okada to make Zeus-chapter is because i`m a big fan of his art


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## Fang (Jan 28, 2017)

Okada would be a great heir to take over the franchise. Though that probably means we'll get decades of Shura spin-off canon works.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## tivanenk (Jan 28, 2017)

Okada is in his mid 40s actually. He started a decade before he wrote Episode G.


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 28, 2017)

Here's a picture of the Saint Seiya mangakas circa 2014. Megumu Okada's the blonde one.


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## Cain1234 (Jan 29, 2017)

I have a question, How does Chronos beat Zeno?
What does he have in his arsenal that can effectively effect Zeno. 

When Zeno can erase all of time along with all of space, and still exist beyond it.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

He can pull a Shrike on Zeno and turn Zeno into a powerless baby or casually manhandle him like he did Athena.


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## Juub (Jan 29, 2017)

Well this escalated quickly.


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## Cain1234 (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> He can pull a Shrike on Zeno and turn Zeno into a powerless baby or casually manhandle him like he did Athena.



There is so many things wrong with your assumption its is not even funny.

Firstly You are implying Chronos can effect someone who is vastly above him in shown power and feats. Chrono's is featless in ND other than turning athena into a baby. He hasnt really done anything else.

Secondly You are implying the OmniKing, an entity who lives beyond the multiverse is effected by the flow of time. That alone is a huge assumption. As Zeno can exist beyond time in his own personal False Vaccume. He is well over billions or trillions of years older then the universe. And most importantly NOT HUMAN Like Athena.


Thirdly Athena became a baby after she hereself went inside Chrono's of her own volition. Nothing chronos has shown suggests he can do it to an unwilling individual.

Your comparison of Zeno to Athena is laughable. As Athena isn't even close to Zeno in terms of power. Even more so laughable when you say Chrono's will turn Zeno baby. Implying that Making Zeno 250 years younger will effect him in any meaningful way, when he is older than the Kaioshins. Who are literally Hundreds of Million of year old. Even if Chronos does manage to effect Zeno, and turn back Zeno into his infancy, "a big assumption to make for an immortal being, as how he can exist beyond time."

This thread is a stupid bait, Chronos from ND is featless. Chrono's from Episode G is Universal+. This thread should not exist.

Zeno erases Chrono's and all the timelines inside of him.

Reactions: Dislike 6


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## Fang (Jan 29, 2017)

>turning a universal+ entity into a baby casually without even trying and possessing nigh omniscience over all timelines  and universes in Saint Seiya
>featless

Also you mook, its Cronos/Kronos in Episode G: the King of the Titans and father of Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon who is a completely different God from Chronos, the Primordial God of Time. And Cronos is casually multiversal even before absorbing his Megas Drapion.








See this image?

The King of Titans is the son of Uranus and Gaia.

The God of Time is a Primordial God like Gaia who has no blood or family relation to any other Gods in Greek mythology.

I didn't even want to rebump this thread but christ the wrong here is staggering.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> There is so many things wrong with your assumption its is not even funny.


Oh boy, someone's gonna school me on Greek mythology they haven't read. I'm getting my popcorn and margaritas ready.


Cain1234 said:


> Firstly You are implying Chronos can effect someone who is vastly above him in shown power and feats. Chrono's is featless in ND other than turning athena into a baby. He hasnt really done anything else.


Because it's not a power that you can attach a DC to? Considering how hax works in Saint Seiya that fucking Hypnos of all people has supposedly been able to knock out Zeus with a sleep spell as it happened in The Iliad and supposedly happened in LC as @SF latif informed me, I can safely say you're wrong.


Cain1234 said:


> Secondly You are implying the OmniKing, an entity who lives beyond the multiverse is effected by the flow of time. That alone is a huge assumption. As Zeno can exist beyond time in his own personal False Vaccume. He is well over billions or trillions of years older then the universe. And most importantly NOT HUMAN Like Athena.


Athena isn't human, she's reincarnated from a goddess. How do you get that wrong? And considering that Zeno can meet himself in a future timeline, I am very certain this is wrong.


Cain1234 said:


> Thirdly Athena became a baby after she hereself went inside Chrono's of her own volition. Nothing chronos has shown suggests he can do it to an unwilling individual.


No she didn't. She did not agree to become a baby. Its even said in the narration that Chronos played a cruel joke on her. You might want to try reading the narration next time.


Cain1234 said:


> Your comparison of Zeno to Athena is laughable. As Athena isn't even close to Zeno in terms of power.


Again you can't attach a DC to this. If you could, then you'd have Captain Harlock at planet level for his ability to resist a planetary mindfuck which is absurd. But please, do make an argument that Harlock is planet level.


Cain1234 said:


> Even more so laughable when you say Chrono's will turn Zeno baby. Implying that Making Zeno 250 years younger will effect him in any meaningful way, when he is older than the Kaioshins. Who are literally Hundreds of Million of year old.


This doesn't matter at all. He did it to Athena when he sent her back in time. Even though I made that comparison to The Shrike, Chronos doesn't need to wait an equal amount of time to age someone backwards, he can do it on a whim.


Cain1234 said:


> Even if Chronos does manage to effect Zeno, and turn back Zeno into his infancy, "a big assumption to make for an immortal being, as how he can exist beyond time."


It isn't. As I'll say for the last time, Chronos' hax isn't tied to his power level and in most fictions you can't attach a DC yield to it unless explicitly shown in cases like Harlock shrugging off a planet level mindfuck.


Cain1234 said:


> This thread is a stupid bait, Chronos from ND is featless. Chrono's from Episode G is Universal+. This thread should not exist.


I agree it's a dumb thread when earlier Cronus kicked his ass. Wait, did you just.


Cain1234 said:


> Chrono's from Episode G is Universal+.


Wow. How about you do some reading? This is  This is  They don't have much in common except for similar sounding names.


Cain1234 said:


> Zeno erases Chrono's and all the timelines inside of him.


Zeno can destroy 18 timelines and sub-universes. Chronos affected way more than that. He stomps.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Alchemist of Atlas (Jan 29, 2017)

What's the point of Zeno being a low multiversal threat when he has no real defenses against hax?

Even though DBS has brought a bit of hax into play, it still pales compared to the hax in Saint Seiya (I've said it a lot of time. DBverse is extremely physical, with hax having almost no involvment). Cronos has this won definitely. This shouldn't be discussed at this point anymore.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KuraiShin (Jan 29, 2017)

I hardly see how DBS can deal with the top Goldies, let alone someone like Chronos.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

KuraiShin said:


> I hardly see how DBS can deal with the top Goldies, let alone someone like Chronos.


@SF latif and I were talking earlier on Facebook about Zeno's chances in Saint Seiya. He said that he wouldn't make it past even Shaka because of speed and his Tenbu Horin.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

If it wasn't clear, Zenos can destroy the entire spacetime of the multiverse in Dragon Balls, that means he can erase all of existence and turn it into Nothingness. 

Just a thought. Speed DB loses.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

DB's multiverse is _much_ smaller than Saint Seiya's. Chronos and Cronus can erase a lot more than Zeno can.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> DB's multiverse is _much_ smaller than Saint Seiya's. Chronos and Cronus can erase a lot more than Zeno can.


That's not what I'm saying. How powerful is Chronos, Multiversal, if so, how much and are they using the Hyperverse that was shown during the Hades arc?


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That's not what I'm saying. How powerful is Chronos, Multiversal, if so, how much and are they using the Hyperverse that was shown during the Hades arc?


Chronos exists in a different place than Meikai. He is the god of time and he watches over all the infinite timelines of Saint Seiya. He also warped a bunch of timelines into his own personal dimension IIRC.


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## KuraiShin (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> @SF latif and I were talking earlier on Facebook about Zeno's chances in Saint Seiya. He said that he wouldn't make it past even Shaka because of speed and his Tenbu Horin.


Pretty much this, yeah. Too much speed and hax for him to deal with.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> @SF latif and I were talking earlier on Facebook about Zeno's chances in Saint Seiya. He said that he wouldn't make it past even Shaka because of speed and his Tenbu Horin.


note i only think Shaka could defeat Zen`o due his hax and speed where many other people think that he doesn`t get pass the likes of saga and any other hax goldies

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> note i only think Shaka could defeat Zen`o due his hax and speed where many other people think that he doesn`t get pass the likes of saga and any other hax goldies


That is wank as fuck.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That is wank as fuck.


Not really. Goldie hax is just that broken and DB hax is just that weak.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That is wank as fuck.


you could just make a thread and see if it`s "wank" or not

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Also pretty sure Zeno has his own version of Hakai, it was stated that he doesn't fight, he just destroys you.


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> you could just make a thread and see if it`s "wank" or not


Pretty sure even thinking of going against Saint Seiya with all the wank it gets would be suicide.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Pretty sure even thinking of going against Saint Seiya with all the wank it gets would be suicide.


It's on you to prove Zeno has resistance to Goldie hax and that he's as fast as septillions of times the speed of light.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> It's on you to prove Zeno has resistance to Goldie hax and that he's as fast as septillions of times the speed of light.


The fact that he tanked his own explosion isn't enough for the Space-Time issue? Speed, nah, they win.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> The fact that he tanked his own explosion isn't enough for the Space-Time issue? Speed, nah, they win.


That's durability, not hax. That doesn't translate to him being able to survive his senses being removed or resisting a broken mind control technique.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Saga can Warp space across the universe and gods can manipulate casuality and shit 
they still gets fucked by chronos

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alchemist of Atlas (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That is wank as fuck.



Do you really think this is wank? Wow, so much hatedom Saint Seiya gets.

I'm sorry to say, but Saint Seiya has enough facts that back up its hax capacity. You're looking at the wrong franchise to complain about wank, I'm afraid.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> That's durability, not hax. That doesn't translate to him being able to survive his senses being removed or resisting a broken mind control technique.


Like I said, pretty sure Zeno has his own Hakai. Could just destroy the entire multiverse unless Saints can suddenly dimension hop.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Alchemist of Atlas said:


> Do you really think this is wank? Wow, so much hatedom Saint Seiya gets.
> 
> I'm sorry to say, but Saint Seiya has enough facts that back up its hax capacity. You're looking at the wrong franchise to complain about wank, I'm afraid.


Oh no I love Saint Seiya, it's when they start saying "Zeno gets fucked by Gold Saints" who aren't multiversal that takes me aback.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Like I said, pretty sure Zeno has his own Hakai. Could just destroy the entire multiverse unless Saints can suddenly dimension hop.


Yep they can do that. Episode G shows this as well as Shaka being able to do it with Ikki albeit him needing Mu's help to get Ikki out with him as well as him doing it against Saga's AD even if he struggled a bit.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Yep they can do that. Episode G shows this as well as Shaka being able to do it with Ikki albeit him needing Mu's help to get Ikki out with him as well as him doing it against Saga's AD even if he struggled a bit.


Sounds like it would take some time, as Zeno would destroy the multiverse.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Shaka literally removed the senses of one of the strongest titans despite being inferior to him. shows that having superior fire power means little to nothing 

not every verse works the same way Dragonball works you know

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Sounds like it would take some time, as Zeno would destroy the multiverse.


It didn't take time. Shaka did it quick. The only reason he struggled is because Saga's AD warps the whole universe.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> Shaka literally removed the senses of one of the strongest titans despite being inferior to him. shows that having superior fire power means little to nothing
> 
> not every verse works the same way Dragonball works you know


Harlock is planet level because he resisted a planetary mindfuck 

By the way, did you watch Endless Odyssey yet?


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> It didn't take time. Shaka did it quick. The only reason he struggled is because Saga's AD warps the whole universe.


So they'd be able to escape the end of the multiverse to what dimension? As shown by Super, it also destroys Space-Time.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Harlock is planet level because he resisted a planetary mindfuck
> 
> By the way, did you watch Endless Odyssey yet?


Yep. stopped at episode 5 due to my PC getting out of battery


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> So they'd be able to escape the end of the multiverse to what dimension? As shown by Super, it also destroys Space-Time.


They can escape to Tenkai? Not that it matters, top tier Gold Saints are way faster than Zeno who is quintillions of times c while top tier Goldies are septillions of times c. That's a huge speed cap that gives Gold Saints decades worth of prep time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> Yep. stopped at episode 5 due to my PC getting out of battery


You see Harlock resist that planetary mindfuck?

I love how everyone is screaming in agony but he just shrugs it off and asks what that was


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> They can escape to Tenkai? Not that it matters, top tier Gold Saints are way faster than Zeno who is quintillions of times c while top tier Goldies are septillions of times c. That's a huge speed cap that gives Gold Saints decades worth of prep time.


Tenkai isn't a apart of space-time? Show scans of that please. Also, we should get a calc on Zeno instantly destroying 12 universes at once.


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## Fang (Jan 29, 2017)

Hell

Saga is faster then Shura whose that fast even without wearing his Gold Cloth


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You see Harlock resist that planetary mindfuck?
> 
> I love how everyone is screaming in agony but he just shrugs it off and asks what that was




that shit was hilarious af. dude was like "what shit was that"


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Tenkai isn't a apart of space-time? Show scans of that please. Also, we should get a calc on Zeno instantly destroying 12 universes at once.


Tenkai is a separate existence from the universe much like Meikai.

Also you can't calc that because spacetime destruction is unquantifiable.


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Tenkai is a separate existence from the universe much like Meikai.
> 
> Also you can't calc that because spacetime destruction is unquantifiable.


So is the Realm of the Kais.

Except it was done as a blast outward, still be a speed feat.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> that shit was hilarious af. dude was like "what shit was that"


Harlock is so fucking badass even early on.

Dude doesn't have time for your mind games!


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

Gomu said:


> So is the Realm of the Kais.
> 
> Except it was done as a blast outward, still be a speed feat.


I think God Movement did calc that and got quintillions from that feat.


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Mekai and Living universe don`t share the same space-time unlike kaio-realm in DB

otherwise when hades died the living world would`ve collapsed aswell

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I think God Movement did calc that and got quintillions from that feat.


Is it in a Blog?


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Harlock is so fucking badass even early on.
> 
> Dude doesn't have time for your mind games!


my favorite part is when he shots a policman before he gets the chance to use his gun


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2017)

SF latif said:


> my favorite part is when he shots a policman before he gets the chance to use his gun


His speech to that cop was epic. He just brazenly shoots him in front of the whole world and walks off like it's no big deal

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SF latif (Jan 29, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> His speech to that cop was epic. He just brazenly shoots him in front of the whole world and walks off like it's no big deal


i`ve never seen soo much badazzery in one episode 

so fucking epic bruh

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gomu (Jan 29, 2017)

For those who don't like to read:


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## Cain1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Oh boy, someone's gonna school me on Greek mythology they haven't read. I'm getting my popcorn and margaritas ready.



Ohhh!! Noo what ever shall I do. Someone want to school me in Greek Mythology. I am hitting my Blunt.



> Because it's not a power that you can attach a DC to? Considering how hax works in Saint Seiya that fucking Hypnos of all people has supposedly been able to knock out Zeus with a sleep spell as it happened in The Iliad



There is no such thing as 'Hax' it is Hypno's special ability.


Hypno, the god of sleep. Put another God to sleep. Say it aint so that that Greek Gods don't sleep.

Expect they do sleep. Zeus expecially sleeps ALOT.


> In the Iliad, it refers to Zeus has having a bad night's sleep at the beginning of the second chapter. It also says that dawn brings light to men and the Gods alike. I vaguely remember other references of the Gods sleeping at night as well.



Hypno putting Zeus to sleep isn't very special as he does that to everyone who sleeps. It was when Zeus woke up tied down by his family that actually effected him.

*Spoiler*: _Actual mythology_ 






Homer, Iliad 14. 231 ff (trans. Lattimore) (Greek epic C8th B.C.) :
"There [in Lemnos] she [Hera] encountered Hypnos (Sleep), the brother of Thanatos (Death). She clung fast to his hand and spoke a word and called him by name : ‘Hypnos, lord over all mortal men and all gods, if ever before now you listened to word of mine, so now also do as I ask; and all my days I shall know gratitude. Put to sleep the shining eyes of Zeus under his brows as soon as I have lain beside him in love. I will give you gifts; a lovely throne, imperishable forever, of gold. My own son, he of the strong arms, Hephaistos, shall make it with careful skill and make for your feet a footstool on which you can rest your shining feet when you take your pleasure.’
Then Hypnos the still and soft spoke to her in answer : ‘Hera, honoured goddess and daughter of mighty Kronos (Cronus), any other one of the gods, whose race is immortal, I would lightly put to sleep, even the stream of that River Okeanos (Oceanus), whence is risen the seed of all the immortals. But I would not come too close to Zeus, the son of Kronos, nor put him to sleep, unless he himself were to tell me. Before now, it was a favour to you that taught me wisdom, on the day Herakles (Heracles), the high-hearted son of Zeus, was sailing from Ilion, when he had utterly sacked the city of the Trojans. That time I laid to sleep the brain in Zeus of the aegis and drifted upon him still and soft, but your mind was devising evil, and you raised along the sea the blasts of the racking winds, and on these swept him away to Kos, the strong-founded, with all his friends lost, but Zeus awakened in anger and beat the gods up and down his house, looking beyond all others for me, and would have sunk me out of sight in the sea from the bright sky had not Nyx (Night) who has power over gods and men rescued me. I reached her in my flight, and Zeus let be, though he was angry, in awe of doing anything to swift Nyx' displeasure. Now you ask me to do this other impossible thing for you.’
Then in turn the lady ox-eyed Hera answered him : ‘Hypnos, why do you ponder this in your heart, and hesitate? Or do you think that Zeus of the wide brows, aiding the Trojans, will be angry as he was angry for his son, Herakles? Come now, do it, and I will give you one of the younger Kharites (Charites, Graces) for you to marry, and she shall be called you lady; Pasithea, since all your days you have loved her forever.’
So she spoke, and Hypnos was pleased and spoke to her in answer : ‘Come then! Swear it to me on Styx' ineluctable water. With one hand take hold of the prospering earth, with the other take hold of the shining salt sea, so that all the undergods who gather about Kronos (Cronus) may be witnesses to us. Swear that you will give me one of the younger Kharites, Pasithea, the one whom all my days I have longed for.’
He spoke, nor failed to persuade the goddess Hera of the white arms, and she swore as he commanded, and called by their names on all those gods who live beneath Tartaros (the Pit), and who are called Titanes (Titans). Then when she had sworn this, and made her oath a complete thing, the two went away from Lemnos, and the city of Imbros, and mantled themselves in mist, and made their way very lightly till they came to Ida with all her springs, the mother of wild beasts, to Lekton, where first they left the water, and went on over dry land, and with their feet the top of the forest was shaken. There Hypnos stayed, before the eyes of Zeus could light on him, and went up aloft a towering pine tree, the one that grew tallest at that time on Ida, and broke through the close air to the aither. In this he sat, covered over and hidden by the pine branches, in the likeness of a singing bird whom in the mountains the immortal gods call _khalkis_, but men call him _kymindis_."

Homer, Iliad 14. 352 ff :
"So the father [Zeus] slept unshaken on the peak of Gargaron with his wife in his arms, when Hypnos and passion [of Hera] had stilled him; but gently Hypnos went on the run to the ships of the Akhaians (Achaeans) with a message to tell him who circles the earth and shakes it, Poseidon, and stood close to him and addressed him in winged words : ‘Poseidon, now with all your heart defend the Danaans and give them glory, though only for a little, while Zeus still sleeps; since I have mantled a soft slumber about him and *Hera beguiled him into sleeping in love beside her*.’
He spoke so, and went away among the famed races of men."




Hypno needed Hera's help to actually pull it off. You can't force Zeus into sleep.






There is no such thing as Hax in Greek mythology. You can brute force your way through alot of thing. Case and point Herakes.



> and supposedly happened in LC as @SF latif informed me, I can safely say you're wrong.



Don't teach me about Greek  or Roman Myths. I spent a huge portion of my time studying practicall all various Myths from all cultures.



> Athena isn't human, she's reincarnated from a goddess. How do you get that wrong?


But she has a human body. That is what I meant. She reincarnates multiple times over the series. Not all of them were Saiori. There is Sasha and Chaos Athena. She has a biological body.
IN actual mythology, Athena came out of Zeus's brain fully grown with her Armor, claiming Hail. Athena has no baby form. Saori-san on the other hand was a baby.




> And considering that Zeno can meet himself in a future timeline, I am very certain this is wrong.



What does the future timeline have to do with anything. In DBS there is no such thing as time paradox. Any changes to the past creates Alternate Timeline complete with a Zeno.
There is a Zeno in each and every single timeline. All of them existing beyond Time itself.

None of the changes to time do anything other than make another posibility where another Zeno exists.



> No she didn't. She did not agree to become a baby.


Of course she didn't. She didnt even see that comming.



> Its even said in the narration that Chronos played a cruel joke on her. You might want to try reading the narration next time.



Your point, Athena didnot see the joke comming.



> Again you can't attach a DC to this. If you could, then you'd have Captain Harlock at planet level for his ability to resist a planetary mindfuck which is absurd. But please, do make an argument that Harlock is planet level.



I don't give a darn about your other shitty ass anime. Stop going offtopic. Of course you can, Chronos used time to influence  the living cells Saori's to regress. Its not really that hard to deconstruct an ability. A bit of common sense and basic scientific knowledge is what you need.



> This doesn't matter at all. He did it to Athena when he sent her back in time. Even though I made that comparison to The Shrike, Chronos doesn't need to wait an equal amount of time to age someone backwards, he can do it on a whim.



Proof is what I ask for. Show me he can effect beings who exist beyond time.



> It isn't. As I'll say for the last time, Chronos' hax isn't tied to his power level and in most fictions you can't attach a DC yield to it unless explicitly shown in cases like Harlock shrugging off a planet level mindfuck.



Actually you can, most people are too lazy to deconstruct an ability. Again I dont care about this Harlock guy.

And Saint Seiya is not a hax based universe. It has a universal energy system called Cosmo. and the greated the Cosmo the more potency a ability will have.



> I agree it's a dumb thread when earlier Cronus kicked his ass. Wait, did you just.


What? Did I what. Are you a  mentally retarded kid or some thing.



> Wow. How about you do some reading? This is  This is  They don't have much in common except for similar sounding names.




*Spoiler*: _No dude, Chrono's and Kronos are the same in many incarnation. _ 




KHRONOS (Chronos) was the primordial god of time. In the Orphic cosmogony he emerged self-formed at the dawn of creation. Khronos was envisaged as an incorporeal god, serpentine in form, with three heads--that of a man, a bull, and a lion. He and his consort, the serpentine goddess  (Inevitability), enveloped the primordial world-egg in their coils and split it apart to form the ordered universe of earth, sea and sky. After this act of creation the couple circled the cosmos driving the rotation of heaven and the eternal passage of time.

*The figure of Khronos was essentially a cosmological double of the Titan  ("Father Time"). The Orphics sometimes merged Khronos with the creator-god , and also equated him with the Titan . His equivalent in the Phoenician cosmogony was probably Olam (Eternal Time) whose name is written Oulomos in Greek transcripts.*

Khronos was depicted in Greco-Roman mosaic as Aion (Aeon), eternity personified. He holds a wheel inscribed with the signs of the zodiac and Gaia (Mother Earth) usually reclines at his feet. The poet Nonnus describes Aion as an old man with long, white hair and a beard but mosaic-art presents a youthful figure.







> Zeno can destroy 18 timelines and sub-universes. Chronos affected way more than that. He stomps.




Dude Zeno erases timelines. He  EXISTS BEYOND IN EVER SINGLE TIMELINE, Future Trunks Timeline he is there, main timeline he is there, all other timeline he is still there. Changing timelines will just make more zeno's come into existance.

Chrono's *EFFECTS* not destroys timeline. YOU don't know how he effects the timeline. It can be as simple as moving a pebble from point a to point b. He has never shown to destroy timeline or effect them in meaningful ways.

Erasing timeline >>>>> Effecting timeline to unquantifiable degree.

EVERY SINGLE TIMELINE CHRONOS EFFECTS WILL CREATE ANOTHER ZENO. Infact Chronos effecting multiple timeline with just create multiple Zeno's which will lead to a UNHOLY GOD STOMP on epic proportion on Zeno's part.

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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> *snip*



Κρόνος is not the same god as Χρόνος.

Stop lying.

Even in Roman mythology, Cronos/Kronos equivalent is Saturn who we see in Omega.
Chronos in the same pantheon is Aeion, neither are related.

Just as in their sources in Greek mythology.

Stop bullshitting and trying to make this thread more convoluted with you being caught red-handed not knowing what you are talking about. Even the use of the term specifically with "conflated" was referring to the fact Cronos is the God of the Seasons, which is why he has time powers in Saint Seiya because he uses a scythe, which represents the harvest which was what resulted in today representing time as "Father Time". And the name/identity in modern Greek treating both phonetically the same between Cronos and Chronos.

It does not mean the two Gods were actually merged in later Greek myth. The same wikipedia article you were spouting this from explicitly states this which you ignored.

Stop arguing from ignorance.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nep Heart (Jan 30, 2017)

You know it's ironic that this Caintard negged me a few days ago and claimed I'm "toxic to the whole community" when he's pretty much established himself exactly as that; a pest that is wildly reviled around here.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Ohhh!! Noo what ever shall I do. Someone want to school me in Greek Mythology. I am hitting my Blunt.


I am feeling an instant Raigen Effect if you're a pothead.


Cain1234 said:


> There is no such thing as 'Hax' it is Hypno's special ability.
> 
> Hypno, the god of sleep. Put another God to sleep. Say it aint so that that Greek Gods don't sleep.
> 
> Expect they do sleep. Zeus expecially sleeps ALOT.


So explain why the fuck Zeus got pissed at Hypnos and tried to kill him but couldn't because Nyx threatened him?


Cain1234 said:


> Hypno putting Zeus to sleep isn't very special as he does that to everyone who sleeps. It was when Zeus woke up tied down by his family that actually effected him.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Actual mythology_
> 
> ...


Except Hypnos did. If he hadn't, Zeus wouldn't have flipped out and tried to kill Hypnos. You conveniently left that out but that's not surprising considering you're a dishonest cretin. Also you don't know what the word "beguile" means. Hera didn't do anything except order him to do it.


Cain1234 said:


> There is no such thing as Hax in Greek mythology. You can brute force your way through alot of thing. Case and point Herakes.


Herakles isn't a good example of anything when he's one character among many. That's like using Spider-Man as a primer for all of Marvel.


Cain1234 said:


> Don't teach me about Greek  or Roman Myths. I spent a huge portion of my time studying practicall all various Myths from all cultures.


Sure you have. Otherwise you wouldn't have left out a vital detail that completely debunks your nonsense as well as misunderstand what a simple word means.


Cain1234 said:


> But she has a human body. That is what I meant. She reincarnates multiple times over the series. Not all of them were Saiori. There is Sasha and Chaos Athena. She has a biological body.
> IN actual mythology, Athena came out of Zeus's brain fully grown with her Armor, claiming Hail. Athena has no baby form. Saori-san on the other hand was a baby.


It doesn't really matter anyways. Yeah she can age and reincarnate but her base is a goddess because she has the Big Will which grants her cosmic power and control over her soul. That's not something a human can do.


Cain1234 said:


> What does the future timeline have to do with anything. In DBS there is no such thing as time paradox. Any changes to the past creates Alternate Timeline complete with a Zeno.
> There is a Zeno in each and every single timeline. All of them existing beyond Time itself.
> 
> None of the changes to time do anything other than make another posibility where another Zeno exists.


It shows Zeno is affected by time. He's not an acausal or omnipresent being like you're suggesting.


Cain1234 said:


> Of course she didn't. She didnt even see that comming.
> 
> Your point, Athena didnot see the joke comming.


Which is a far cry from what you're saying. She had no way of preventing Chronos from pulling a prank on her and it shows Chronos can bypass even Athena's Big Will. There isn't any reason he can't do it to Zeno who is again affected by time.


Cain1234 said:


> I don't give a darn about your other shitty ass anime. Stop going offtopic.


You don't know what an example is? Or are you ignoring it because it disproves what you're saying? Either way, you're missing the point I was making.


Cain1234 said:


> Of course you can, Chronos used time to influence  the living cells Saori's to regress. Its not really that hard to deconstruct an ability. A bit of common sense and basic scientific knowledge is what you need.


That isn't what happened. Chronos sent her back in time, bypassed her Cosmo that can counter reality warps and turned her into a baby. That's not something a scientist can do.


Cain1234 said:


> Proof is what I ask for. Show me he can effect beings who exist beyond time.


He did. Athena is shown to be acausal IIRC. I think it was @SF latif that showed me that.


Cain1234 said:


> Actually you can, most people are too lazy to deconstruct an ability. Again I dont care about this Harlock guy.


You should because it debunks your nonsense about hax being equal to DC. You ignoring the example won't make it go away. Either you think Harlock is planet level or not. Shouldn't be hard to answer.


Cain1234 said:


> *And Saint Seiya is not a hax based universe.* It has a universal energy system called Cosmo. and the greated the Cosmo the more potency a ability will have.




That's funny, you're funny. You make great jokes. A real knee slapper, that was.


Cain1234 said:


> What? Did I what. Are you a  mentally retarded kid or some thing.


You apparently can't tell I was making fun of you confusing Cronus with Chronos. And you imply I'm the one who's retarded 


Cain1234 said:


> *Spoiler*: _No dude, Chrono's and Kronos are the same in many incarnation. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Read the fine print numbnuts. "The Orphics sometimes merged Khronos with the creator-god , and also equated him with the Titan ." Anyone with critical thinking skills can tell that they were separate but merged into one. Also how is it that if they're one they have different wives that embody different things? Not only that but in no myth can you find Chronos being dethroned by Zeus. The only time Chronos is mentioned with Zeus is in a poem by Pherecydes of Syros (I erroneously said Hyginus, my mistake). Yeah they're the same god, my ass.


Cain1234 said:


> Dude Zeno erases timelines. He  EXISTS BEYOND IN EVER SINGLE TIMELINE, Future Trunks Timeline he is there, main timeline he is there, all other timeline he is still there. Changing timelines will just make more zeno's come into existance.


Rule of equivalence states that one setting's rules do not override the other. If this battle took place in the DBU, you'd have a case to make but OP did not specify a location so a neutral setting is assumed.


Cain1234 said:


> Chrono's EFFECTS not destroys timeline. YOU don't know how he effects the timeline. It can be as simple as moving a pebble from point a to point b. He has never shown to destroy timeline or effect them in meaningful ways.


Except we have. He has power over time and governs timelines as a whole. That's his job description. And guess what? They're infinite in scope.


Cain1234 said:


> Erasing timeline >>>>> Effecting timeline to unquantifiable degree.


???

What the fuck are you smoking? I know it's not weed, that's for damn sure.


Cain1234 said:


> EVERY SINGLE TIMELINE CHRONOS EFFECTS WILL CREATE ANOTHER ZENO. Infact Chronos effecting multiple timeline with just create multiple Zeno's which will lead to a UNHOLY GOD STOMP on epic proportion on Zeno's part.


Again rules of equivalence. Not that it matters, Chronos could just erase all the timelines if he so chooses. And good job disproving yourself. Either Zeno can be affected by time or he can't. Except now you're saying he can. Irony is fun.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

@Cain1234 

Saint Seiya isn't hax? So Gold Saints warping space-time across the universe, removing people from the wheel of reincarnation, atomizing souls, destroying matter down to the sub-atomic level, universal time-stops, busting dimensions, creating universe multiple-fold larger then the real universe, resisting reality warping and matter manipulation, fate based mind control, possession, senses removal/destruction, making big bangs, rebooting reality with a hand wave, these are not "hax"?

Hell a mid tier Gold Saint can erase and absorb pocket universes casually with his special technique.

Interesting.

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## Crimson Dragoon (Jan 30, 2017)

>not a hax based universe
>Shaka's Tenbu Horin affected the stronger Iapetos, but recovering due to Ichor and Dunamis

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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

I see... nobody talked about what I posted uh... about the realm of kais existing outside of the Universal Space-Time thus uh... Zeno annihilates the Gold's even if they try to escape. Just putting that down here. Chronos wins of course, but those Gold Saints are getting erased.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Except Zeno is much slower than the top tier Goldies and can be affected by their hax.

At the very least, Saga, Kanon and Shaka have hax that Zeno can't counter.

Not to mention the absurd difference in speed.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

>^after that Iapetos gets pissed off
>Iapetos turning his wife into a literal waifu sword

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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain just proved himself that he has no knowlagde on saint seiya when he said "Saint seiya is not HAX based universe"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Except Zeno is much slower than the top tier Goldies and can be affected by their hax.
> 
> At the very least, Saga, Kanon and Shaka have hax that Zeno can't counter.
> 
> Not to mention the absurd difference in speed.



He legitimately doesn't even understand even GM being well aware of the massive speed discrepancy (Shura being >very initial expansion of the universe before the big crunch) and gap between mid-tier SS characters and top tiers in DBS. Also even without that, Thanatos rocking his blasts from Makai in Elysion in a different universe at the Earth in the main universe is ridiculous. since it took literally seconds to cross two universes.

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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> He legitimately doesn't even understand even GM being well aware of the massive speed discrepancy and gap between mid-tier SS characters and top tiers in DBS. Also even without that, Thanatos rocking his blasts from Makai in Elysion in a different universe at the Earth in the main universe is ridiculous.


In a different universe that's much bigger and with blasts that are invisible except to psychics IIRC.

I have shit for brains and a terrible memory but even that is haxed for something as simple as a blast that can make it past a universe that's bigger than the IRL one and zip within a few minutes at the very most to reach earth.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Except Zeno is much slower than the top tier Goldies and can be affected by their hax.
> 
> At the very least, Saga, Kanon and Shaka have hax that Zeno can't counter.
> 
> Not to mention the absurd difference in speed.


I mean the ability to erase 12 Galaxies in an instant means they aren't escaping no matter their speed, unless they want to be in close of that blast radius How are they going to affect him while they're hauling ass trying to dodge a 12 universe explosion, can't run to Tenkai or Maikai or whatever. Where are they running to. Where are they about to go. _Nowhere you say?_


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

>literally the entire Space-time is forcing casuality on Shura 
>Athena comes in and lolnopes it with her Ichor 
>Shura Gains Resistence to universal Space-time casuality 
>Shura gains all of his memories despite his body being much younger

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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> I mean the ability to erase 12 Galaxies in an instant means they aren't escaping no matter their speed, unless they want to be in close of that blast radius How are they going to affect him while they're hauling ass trying to dodge a 12 universe explosion, can't run to Tenkai or Maikai or whatever. Where are they running to. Where are they about to go. _Nowhere you say?_


They don't have to. By the time Zeno processes a thought, he'd either be in another dimension, his senses removed or whatever else Saga and Shaka can throw at him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> In a different universe that's much bigger and with blasts that are invisible except to psychics IIRC.
> 
> I have shit for brains and a terrible memory but even that is haxed for something as simple as a blast that can make it past a universe that's bigger than the IRL one and zip within a few minutes at the very most to reach earth.



Yep and their standards attacks will fuck a target up regardless of them being illusions, intangible/incorporeal, and psychic powers let even middlings in the universe fuck with people across other dimensions. Deathmask was telekinetically torturing Shinrei from Greece at the Sanctuary while she was in China just to spite Roshi and Shiryuu.

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## Jackk (Jan 30, 2017)

Shaka would turn Zeno into a vegetable

and Saga would turn Zeno into his pet

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> They don't have to. By the time Zeno processes a thought, he'd either be in another dimension, his senses removed or whatever else Saga and Shaka can throw at him.


At least it's the top tiered Gold Saints. Btw, does that hax work on the Gods as well? I thought you needed a special power to be able to hurt gods that's why Seiya was so special. But there's a coincidence to this, you need the same thing to hurt a god in Dragon Ball otherwise haxes won't affect them.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> At least it's the top tiered Gold Saints. Btw, does that hax work on the Gods as well? I thought you needed a special power to be able to hurt gods that's why Seiya was so special. But there's a coincidence to this, you need the same thing to hurt a god in Dragon Ball otherwise haxes won't affect them.


Shaka was able to use his Tenbu Horin to fuck up the Titan Iapetos so you don't necessarily need "godly power" to fight them.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

i forgot, even freaking saga can fuck up people`s senses

Reactions: Like 1


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## KuraiShin (Jan 30, 2017)

Let's agree that Saga punch him and close this thread already

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> >literally the entire Space-time is forcing casuality on Shura
> >Athena comes in and lolnopes it with her Ichor
> >Shura Gains Resistence to universal Space-time casuality
> >Shura gains all of his memories despite his body being much younger



There's also Pontos manipulating the pressure of Tartarus in Episode G to weaken the Titans and slow them down to make it easier for the Gold Saints to fight them. He was doing this in his own dimension while in there, while the Titans were in another one each time they used Melas Planetes.

So multiversal range there too since he was using his powers on the Titans who were in different universes constantly.

And also Dunamis powers Primordial Gods and Titan Gods have that lets them warp matter however they want.



SF latif said:


> i forgot, even freaking saga can fuck up people`s senses



Funny thing is for Saga, he can do it with casual punches. Its not even a special technique to him.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Oh you're lucky as fuck we're not using Composite feats. Mind Control and shit like that wouldn't affect him otherwise. What would being in another dimension do to a person who could erase all of existence? He'd just completely annihilate all existence still.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Shaka was able to use his Tenbu Horin to fuck up the Titan Iapetos so you don't necessarily need "godly power" to fight them.


But Shaka is more privileged as he is the closest to becoming a "god". So you can't really use that. He doesn't use his sense of sight so his cosmos can be increased and honed to a finer quality. But it doesn't matter. Demigra's mind control is non-canon, Normal "ki" immunity which can be equalized to Cosmos is also Non-canon, unless I can use the Battle of Gods movie.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

it`s hilarious when you consider Cains comment on saint seiya not being hax based universe, when almost every gold saints have thier own especial techniques/Hax available to them

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

God Killer (saga) Versus Closes man to god (Shaka)

which is better


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> God Killer (saga) Versus Closes man to god (Shaka)
> 
> which is better


As characters? I'm an Aries so I'm biased towards my sign but they're both great characters. I'll probably go with Saga.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

>Shaka doesn't use his sense of sight

Someone doesn't know what they are talking about again. Shaka had his eyes open against Iapetos and when fighting the other Gold Saints. Nor does him being the "closest" to God make him able to hurt Gods.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> God Killer (saga) Versus Closes man to god (Shaka)
> 
> which is better


Too bad most of the gods they actually fight against are only universe busting + compared to a Multiverse Buster, but that's just me.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> As characters? I'm an Aries so I'm biased towards my sign but they're both great characters. I'll probably go with Saga.


that was Sarcastic  

but i`m sagittarious. and sagittarious is the most quality one

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Giants are also gods

look what happend to them when they fought even the weakest gold saint. they got thier shit kicked

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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

And just to shoot down Chronos = Cronus because it needs to be, Cronus' etymological origin in Proto Indo-European is *ker which means "to cut." Chronos' PIE origin isn't found yet but suffice to say, Chronos means "time." Now you tell me if they're the same thing when they mean different things. Cronus' association with time is related to harvesting and generations in Greek myths while Chronos embodies universal time IIRC.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

So did some research.

You guys are trying to wank the fuck out of the Gold Saints.

If what was stated about the Multiversal Attack from Zen'o was true, he'd be right around their speed in their base forms (Quintillions). It's when they don God Cloths they would be untouchable.

God Cloths should be what gives them the ability to contend with Gods, their bases would be fucked by Hakais or just erasure. It's interesting.

Here's why I say this. The mangaka obviously doesn't think like you guys, because when he was fighting recently in Episode G Asssasin Shura said he needed to transcend the speed of the Big Bang itself.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Incorrect. Shura outsped the initial expansion of the Big Bang which got septillions of times the speed of light. And Shura is a mid tier Goldie.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Incorrect. Shura outsped the initial expansion of the Big Bang which got septillions of times the speed of light. And Shura is a mid tier Goldie.


How do we know the initial acceleration of a conceptual explosion though. There seems to be something wrong with this.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> How do we know the initial acceleration of a conceptual explosion though. There seems to be something wrong with this.


You can check iwandesu's blog. He's the one who did the calc.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> You can check iwandesu's blog. He's the one who did the calc.


I've seen the calc before.  I think it might have been accepted because people like Saint Seiya. There should be no evidence in how the big bang starts initially like, that should literally be unquantifiable as it's a conceptual explosion and something we could never actually measure in our life time I don't think. The explosion of stars, destruction of planets. Yeah, understandable. But a Big Bang explosion.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

The Big Bang isn't an explosion, it's an expansion from a singularity. If you have a problem with the calc go talk to @iwandesu and he can explain it to you himself.

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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Nah because I don't like hearing bullshit.



This states that the big Bang did not expand faster than light, it could not have, I understand this is fiction but the Big Bang's initial movement, he may have just been saying "I need to move beyond the speed of light".


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

I might have to uh... debunk some of this shit, somethings not right here.

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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Are you serious? You understand that the 7th Sense allows Saints to go faster than the speed of light right?

Also from doing my own shitty calcs regarding Planck epoch for Noo, the fact that the Big Bang's initial expansion expanded from the size of a Planck length to a quark and Shura dodged that is pretty much what gives him that speed.

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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Are you serious? You understand that the 7th Sense allows Saints to go faster than the speed of light right?
> 
> Also from doing my own shitty calcs regarding Planck epoch for Noo, the fact that the Big Bang's initial expansion expanded from the size of a Planck length to a quark and Shura dodged that is pretty much what gives him that speed.


I know that it does. But you guys are stating that the Big Bang expanding is faster than a guy who destroys 12 universes instantly. You literally think a Big Bang is faster than annihilating 12 universes in a single blow. Something doesn't seem right to me in that. It shouldn't make sense to you either if you thought about it. How. How does a person exceeding the expansion of energy in a big bang which is a single universe, become faster than the guy that can create an energy blast the destroys 12 infinitely expanding universes even if it's a much larger universe than the average Super one.

That doesn't seem right. Especially since it would possible emulate a similar effect of the mass of the blasts extending outward.

I'm not even a calculator and I think something is wrong in that.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> I know that it does. But you guys are stating that the Big Bang expanding is faster than a guy who destroys 12 universes instantly. You literally think a Big Bang is faster than annihilating 12 universes in a single blow. Something doesn't seem right to me in that. It shouldn't make sense to you either if you thought about it. How. How does a person exceeding the expansion of energy in a big bang which is a single universe, become faster than the guy that can create an energy blast the destroys 12 infinitely expanding universes even if it's a much larger universe than the average Super one.
> 
> That doesn't seem right.


Dude, @God Movement or someone else calced that feat and got quintillions of times the speed of light. If you got problems with that too take it up with him or whoever made that calc.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Dude, @God Movement or someone else calced that feat and got quintillions of times the speed of light. If you got problems with that too take it up with him or whoever made that calc.


Can I see a scan where he dodged a Big Bang explosion, because he was swinging his sword at extreme speed to hit a character, not dodge anything. And it could have just been him stating "all or nothing".


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

The fact that he didn't tank it? Just saying. You can see that the Big Bang didn't do anything to him.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

But that's not the Big Bang though... That's just Shura swinging his sword and conserving his form, which is what you do when you're well-versed in CQC combat anyway.

Nah man, and @iwandesu used wikipedia to get his information, which can be rewritten at any point in time with some nub.

The Big Bang didn't exceed the speed of light, it couldn't have because science states it couldn't as NOTHING exceeds the speed of light, I understand this is fiction that I'm talking about, and I'm not saying they aren't MFTL either but there's no way in hell he could have gotten that calc because it would make absolutely no sense. And everyone just accepted it. Just like that.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Scan disagrees with you. He even says it clearly here. Also that's his reaction speed and there's no reason not to accept that he's that fast through traveling either.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Scan disagrees with you. He even says it clearly here. Also that's his reaction speed and there's no reason not to accept that he's that fast through traveling either.


But we have no reference of how fast the initial acceleration of the Big Bang is. And we know it CAN'T be above the speed of light as nothing is above the speed of light. First off all matter would have not existed after going at that speed, so the expansion of the big bang itself would have meant there was no matter.

Then we don't see a cosmic event take place like it in Saint Seiya. I understand Athena Exclamation, but that was usually done either by Gods, Certain Powerful Gold Saints or Three Gold Saints performing it. He literally could not emulate the feat of the expansion of the universe without the Athena Exclamation.

This is also stated in the series as the only way for Saints to emulate a Big Bangs power. Even if it's done by only a single saint. Has Shura ever been shown doing the Athena Exclamation alone?


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Actually we can because the Big Bang expanded from Planck length to the size of roughly a quark at about 10^-43 seconds to 10^-36 seconds after the Big Bang took place. Considering the size and extremely small amount of time involved, that's well beyond the speed of light.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Actually we can because the Big Bang expanded from Planck length to the size of roughly a quark at about 10^-43 seconds to 10^-36 seconds after the Big Bang took place. Considering the size and extremely small amount of time involved, that's well beyond the speed of light.


Except, the only thing that emulates said power is Athena's Exclamation and obviously God attacks. And not only that. That ability was stated to be a "miracle", it isn't like he's throwing out those types of slashes each time he attacks with them. He even states it as a miracle. So how does it go to all the Gold Saints.

And nothing can exceed the speed of light in the REAL WORLD even in the standards of the big bang it would have to be 99% of the speed of light. So again I ask you, how?

So three points here:
1. Big Bang = Athena's Exclamation and Shura is a Mid-Tier, he can't perform that attack by himself.
2. Shura may not be emulating a big bang, it could be that THIS is basically him giving it his all. Why are you using the big Bang as a reference to his normal attacks, that isn't how cosmos works. It allows you to use the energy of the big bang which is stated to be "stardust" or the energy from the stars, it has nothing to do with the actual big bang outside of Athena Exclamation or as I stated God's and such as they exceed such a fact. Understandably they'd need their god cloths to exceed Athena Exclamations power.
3. How does the initial expansion of the big bang in any fucking sense beat the destruction of 12 universes in an instant within the realms of speed.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Except I've never stated Shura can emulate the power of an AE by himself. You're putting words in my mouth dude.

Also, you're right, he was giving it his all with that feat by burning his Cosmo to the maximum which is a pretty recurring element in Saint Seiya. The characters are put in a tight spot where they have to give their all or else they'll lose. Shura would have no reason to hold back in that instance.

I don't think Shura would win against Zeno as I don't know of any hax that he has that can make a substantial difference like Saga and Shaka being able to fuck up Zeno's senses.

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## Cain1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I am feeling an instant Raigen Effect if you're a pothead.


Good good take it all in



> So explain why the fuck Zeus got pissed at Hypnos and tried to kill him but couldn't because Nyx threatened him?



Because if you understood any context. Hypno putting him to sleep at that time. Almost caused him to loose his position as the King of the Gods. He wasnt pissed off at hypnos at the millions of time he slept around. Just that instance.



> Except Hypnos did. If he hadn't, Zeus wouldn't have flipped out and tried to kill Hypnos. You conveniently left that out but that's not surprising considering you're a dishonest cretin. Also you don't know what the word "beguile" means. Hera didn't do anything except order him to do it.



WTF did you just skim through. You lazy ass pissant. Hera bribed Hypno with many promises. Hypno didnot even want to put Zeus to sleep. Even then Hera had to sleep Zeus to put him into a false sense of security. At which point Hypno put him to sleep after sex.

be·guile
bəˈɡīl/
_verb_

*1*.
charm or enchant (someone), sometimes in a deceptive way.

Learn English please. Hera beguiled Zeus to SLEEPING WITH HER, ie: they had sex. Then aterwards Hypno put him into a deep enough sleep for the olympian to entrap him.



> Herakles isn't a good example of anything when he's one character among many. That's like using Spider-Man as a primer for all of Marvel.



Herakles is the best example of Greek myths. He is the ID of mankind. Even before achieving divinity. He has an entire religion and cult based solely to hype him beyond any greek god. He reked, Hades, Thanatos, fought Zeus to a stand still all the while being mortal. Your comparison to herakeles to spidey is out right dishonest. Your comparison should be about using Superman as the primer of DC. Why are you ignoring this you bigoted cretin, cause it goes against your opinion?




> It doesn't really matter anyways. Yeah she can age and reincarnate but her base is a goddess because she has the Big Will which grants her cosmic power and control over her soul. That's not something a human can do.



Aoros, Shaka, Shajima or any Virgo Saint, Subaru/Saturn. Also she had cells and a body, that is why she COULD become a baby. Zeno is Zeno he is beyond time/space.



> It shows Zeno is affected by time. He's not an acausal or omnipresent being like you're suggesting.



No he isn't effected by time as he can exist beyond time. If you take a zeno summon button into another timeline. You can summon Zeno from that world. But that is an effect of alternate timline not time paradox which is chrono's ability.



> Which is a far cry from what you're saying. She had no way of preventing Chronos from pulling a prank on her and it shows Chronos can bypass even Athena's Big Will. There isn't any reason he can't do it to Zeno who is again affected by time.



No Zeno is not effected by time at all, if you went back an moved a pebble from point a to b.

There would be a Zeno in the timeline where the pebble is in point a.

There would be a Zeno in the timeline where the pebble is in point b.

There would be 2 zeno's from 2 alternate timeline. WHO WOULD NEVER MEET, unless some idiot took a time machine and used it to transport the zeno where the pebble is in point b to the world where the pebble is in point a. That way you can get 2 Zeno's, but Zeno's exists in all timlines.

Moving the pebble didnt really do anything to Zeno. Who would have existed in his jellyfish palace

This is what i mean effecting a timeline would just make more.

Zeno is beyond the universe can he live outside spacetime. In something resembling "false vacuum" ie: not vacuum or true vacuum. You have to prove that Chronos can effect someone vastly more powerful than him.



> You don't know what an example is? Or are you ignoring it because it disproves what you're saying? Either way, you're missing the point I was making.
> 
> That isn't what happened. Chronos sent her back in time, bypassed her Cosmo that can counter reality warps and turned her into a baby.



Which is because she can be a baby. Zeno cannot.



> That's not something a scientist can do.



Dr Who says hi.



> He did. Athena is shown to be acausal IIRC. I think it was @SF latif that showed me that.



No she hasn't no once. In the Manga, ND, Episode G or Assassins. I dont know about LC tho. Seriously why you keep bringing up SF latif.



> You should because it debunks your nonsense about hax being equal to DC. You ignoring the example won't make it go away. Either you think Harlock is planet level or not. Shouldn't be hard to answer.



Ya, he has planet level mindfuck resistance. So yes i agree he is planet level in mindcontrol durability. Its not that hard to understand.



> That's funny, you're funny. You make great jokes. A real knee slapper, that was.
> 
> You apparently can't tell I was making fun of you confusing Cronus with Chronos. And you imply I'm the one who's retarded


Well you are your acting like one. This comment further solidifies it.




> Read the fine print numbnuts. "The Orphics sometimes merged Khronos with the creator-god , and also equated him with the Titan ." Anyone with critical thinking skills can tell that they were separate but merged into one. Also how is it that if they're one they have different wives that embody different things? Not only that but in no myth can you find Chronos being dethroned by Zeus. The only time Chronos is mentioned with Zeus is in a poem by Pherecydes of Syros (I erroneously said Hyginus, my mistake). Yeah they're the same god, my ass.



So stupid, Gods, expecially Greek Gods are the product of man's thought. As such they can both exist simultaniously at the same time, as the same being. Similar to quantum physic's wave particle duality.
Example being Aphrodite being born from the Orano's balls. But at the sometime being a Daughter of Zeus. The nature of Dionysus creation.

The concept of Chrono's the Primordial God of time comes from the Orphic texts. HE/and Arkane dosent do shit in those texts other than circle the world egg. No titanomachy no Giantomachy they are just there and completely featless. Being Primordial dosent make you more powerful or weaker, The Greek entities are just what they are an exmple being the Giant Typhoon was so terrifying that Nyx was scare shitless of him and zeus.

The concept of Cronos's titan of the golden comes from classical greek, Hesiodon and Homeric. He actually does shit, then gets his balls chopped off. Yet as time went on he was equated to the Primordial Embodiment of time Chrono's and became one.

Chronos has appeared in 3 series as three entities. Episode G as a titan, ND as a Primordial, Omega as Saturn.



> Rule of equivalence states that one setting's rules do not override the other. If this battle took place in the DBU, you'd have a case to make but OP did not specify a location so a neutral setting is assumed.
> 
> 
> Except we have. He has power over time and governs timelines as a whole. That's his job description. And guess what? They're infinite in scope.



Ohh, so you wanna play it that way. Guess what equavelence works both ways. If this was saint seiya chronos would be the embodiment of time. IN a neutral world his title of God mean jackshit. He governs the Greek timeline and no one elses. In a neutral setting he has no power other than making a woman into a baby. See what i did there.



> Again rules of equivalence. Not that it matters, *Chronos could just erase all the timelines if he so chooses*. And good job disproving yourself. Either Zeno can be affected by time or he can't. Except now you're saying he can. Irony is fun.



No he dosent, as per rule of equivalence. He can't effect or destroy anything beyond the saint seiya universe or more specifically the Greek frame of Consciousness, while Zeno can exist beyond time. You either accept Zeno existing in every single one or whose infinite timeline. None of the timeline touching or making paradoxes for Chrono's ability to work or you accept Chronos being able to effect the timeline while not effecting zeno in a meaningfull way. Irony is fun, that we can agree with.

Chronos dosent have the ability to erase timeline. No one in Greek Mythology or Saint Seiya can.

Feat >> hype
That is the standard rule.




Blakk Jakk said:


> Shaka was able to use his Tenbu Horin to fuck up the Titan Iapetos so you don't necessarily need "godly power" to fight them.



Shaka is the fucking buddha. Iapatos is a shitty as fk Greek Titan. Who does not understand the concept that Gods are the product of man. And ignorantly believes that Humans are lesser than Gods. When it is clearly the other way around.


Buddha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Entire Greek Pantheon.

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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Except I've never stated Shura can emulate the power of an AE by himself. You're putting words in my mouth dude.
> 
> Also, you're right, he was giving it his all with that feat by burning his Cosmo to the maximum which is a pretty recurring element in Saint Seiya. The characters are put in a tight spot where they have to give their all or else they'll lose. Shura would have no reason to hold back in that instance.
> 
> I don't think Shura would win against Zeno as I don't know of any hax that he has that can make a substantial difference like Saga and Shaka being able to fuck up Zeno's senses.


No I wasn't saying that you said that he could emulate it. I'm saying that the only way FOR Shura to use a power that would be based upon the Big Bang would be if he could use a power AKIN to AE. That's what that's literally implying he can do. It's a miracle OK cool.

Wouldn't that mean however, that it was a one-off attack though? That you shouldn't be able to scale it to the other Saints. He literally calls it a miracle, meaning he wouldn't be able to duplicate said feat unless his concentration was that high. It wouldn't mean that higher Saints could either, they have different abilities from Shura for one thing. And Saints shouldn't be that far apart from one another in terms of speed. Overall yes, it would be considered an outlier in this sense as even SHURA HIMSELF calls it such.

It has nothing to do with beating Zen'o it is the fact that a Universal Explosion from a big bang can exceed the speed of 12 universes being destroyed in an instant. It has more to do with the speed at which these characters can move, it bugs me because I don't quite follow the logic. That the initial expansion of a big bang beats 12 universes being destroying from a single point. But I'm not a calculator.

I can do nothing but give it to ya as I can not go against that logic I'm not a calcer, but that seems like bullshit.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. Only thing he's going to do is end up being the new Vector Prime.

@God Movement c'mon in here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## God Movement (Jan 30, 2017)

I don't get what the issue is. The Zen'o feat was calculated, it was like 2 quintillion c, the expansion of the universe is much faster than that, for reasons really unknown to us. But those are the rules of the actual universe and that's what actually happened.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

The issue might be just possibly related to *him* claiming he's going to debunk every single Saint Seiya speed feat despite not understanding specific statements were given on speeds they were going to surpass. By the same token we can throw out faster then light speed calculations for anything because human understanding as it stands currently can't grasp how anything can exceed the speed of light when possessing actual physical mass in the first place.

Its a tad hypocritical wouldn't you say, GM, what he's claiming that planck speeds and surpassing the initial expansion of the universe being "unknown" should be discounted here?

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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> Good good take it all in


That's disturbing. Please don't say anything like that again. Or better yet stop posting.


Cain1234 said:


> Because if you understood any context. Hypno putting him to sleep at that time. Almost caused him to loose his position as the King of the Gods. He wasnt pissed off at hypnos at the millions of time he slept around. Just that instance.


Are you fucking kidding me? Who the fuck would be able to take his place? Zeus ensured no one ever could. Why do you think the whole thing of eating Metis happened? No Zeus was pissed at Hypnos for his trickery which is pretty common for Zeus to be upset at given his temper tantrums over trivial matters within Greek mythology.


Cain1234 said:


> WTF did you just skim through. You lazy ass pissant. Hera bribed Hypno with many promises. Hypno didnot even want to put Zeus to sleep. Even then Hera had to sleep Zeus to put him into a false sense of security. At which point Hypno put him to sleep after sex.
> 
> be·guile
> bəˈɡīl/
> ...



You earlier said he needed Hera's help. He really didn't. He could have put Zeus to sleep if he damn well wanted to which he didn't. Sleep is his domain and Zeus would be powerless against it. What does the OBD call it again? Oh that's right, HAX. Yeah Zeus shits on Hypnos in overall stats but he has no resistance to being put to sleep against his will. Sure I'll give you that Hera allowed him to get his sleep spells in without being noticed but she didn't contribute to his abilities at all. Hera has no power over sleep like Hypnos does.


Cain1234 said:


> Herakles is the best example of Greek myths. He is the ID of mankind. Even before achieving divinity. He has an entire religion and cult based solely to hype him beyond any greek god. He reked, Hades, Thanatos, fought Zeus to a stand still all the while being mortal. Your comparison to herakeles to spidey is out right dishonest. Your comparison should be about using Superman as the primer of DC. Why are you ignoring this you bigoted cretin, cause it goes against your opinion?


Spider-Man is the most well known hero in Marvel Comics. I can't believe you don't know this. You missed my point and badly. Yeah Heracles is the most well known hero but he's not the only one. There's Jason, Odysseys, Achilles and many more. And that's not just heroes, there's gods, Titans, Primordials, Nymphs, Daimons, etc. There's hax in Greek mythology if you look for it.


Cain1234 said:


> Aoros, Shaka, Shajima or any Virgo Saint, Subaru/Saturn. Also she had cells and a body, that is why she COULD become a baby. Zeno is Zeno he is beyond time/space.


???

The fuck are you bringing them up for? Also, no. Zeno is shown to be affected by the flux of time or else he wouldn't be affected by time in DB even though he regularly is. He's not Chronos who exists throughout all of space and time at once.


Cain1234 said:


> No he isn't effected by time as he can exist beyond time. If you take a zeno summon button into another timeline. You can summon Zeno from that world. But that is an effect of alternate timline not time paradox which is chrono's ability.


I haven't mentioned time paradoxes. It's clear you don't understand them at all. A decision that affects the present can affect him in the future thus he is casual and subject to time.


Cain1234 said:


> No Zeno is not effected by time at all, if you went back an moved a pebble from point a to b.
> 
> There would be a Zeno in the timeline where the pebble is in point a.
> 
> There would be a Zeno in the timeline where the pebble is in point b.


Way to prove my point. Glad we agree that Zeno is subject to the laws of causality and time.


Cain1234 said:


> There would be 2 zeno's from 2 alternate timeline. WHO WOULD NEVER MEET, unless some idiot took a time machine and used it to transport the zeno where the pebble is in point b to the world where the pebble is in point a. That way you can get 2 Zeno's, but Zeno's exists in all timlines.


Because he has counterparts of himself in other timelines? So what? Is that supposed to impress me or something?


Cain1234 said:


> Moving the pebble didnt really do anything to Zeno. Who would have existed in his jellyfish palace


Except it clearly did and can as you've said yourself.


Cain1234 said:


> This is what i mean effecting a timeline would just make more.
> 
> Zeno is beyond the universe can he live outside spacetime. In something resembling "false vacuum" ie
> 
> t vacuum or true vacuum. You have to prove that Chronos can effect someone vastly more powerful than him.



Not really. You have to prove that Zeno can handle being turned into a baby or being put to sleep against his will or can handle his senses being taken away which you can't because he hasn't encountered those haxes yet.


Cain1234 said:


> Which is because she can be a baby. Zeno cannot.


You haven't demonstrated that. You did demonstrate Zeno can be affected by causality and time which are part of Chronos' domain so I hope Zeno enjoys getting fucked over by Father Time.


Cain1234 said:


> Dr Who says hi.




Stop. You're killing me. The Doctor isn't a fucking scientist. He's a fucking Time Lord. You know, AN ALIEN! And an exceptional one at that. Christ, the fact you think Dr. Who is a documentary kills me. I should dismiss you out of hand with that statement. FFS he has TARDIS. Yeah try making that in your garage sometime. I'd love to see you try.


Cain1234 said:


> No she hasn't no once. In the Manga, ND, Episode G or Assassins. I dont know about LC tho. Seriously why you keep bringing up SF latif.


Because he's my good friend and he knows more than I do? He has posted examples of how Athena and even fucking Shura is immune to causality.


Cain1234 said:


> Ya, he has planet level mindfuck resistance. So yes i agree he is planet level in mindcontrol durability. Its not that hard to understand.


But that's a disparity between his physical stats and his hax resistance. He himself is street level in physical stats but his mind can tank telepathic attacks up to planet level. I'm using that example as proof that hax doesn't equal overall stats. Harlock is street level but he can tank and is resistant to mind haxes up to planet level. Is that easy to follow or do I need to simplify it down even more?


Cain1234 said:


> Well you are your acting like one. This comment further solidifies it.


Acting like a retard. Sure, says the guy who couldn't tell I was making fun of him. 


Cain1234 said:


> So stupid, Gods, expecially Greek Gods are the product of man's thought. As such they can both exist simultaniously at the same time, as the same being. Similar to quantum physic's wave particle duality.
> Example being Aphrodite being born from the Orano's balls. But at the sometime being a Daughter of Zeus. The nature of Dionysus creation.


What the fuck is this bastardization of Greek thought I'm reading? Chronos is not Cronus. I've posted the etymology and Fang posted the Greek. They are not the same at all. Jesus H Yamato, you're going to extraordinary lengths to cover up contradictions. You wanna know why there's contradictions? Because the Greek myths were passed down orally. There was no unified Greek myth, there were numerous ones. Greek myth doesn't really have much of a continuity and that's to be expected when the stories were communicated verbally.


Cain1234 said:


> The concept of Chrono's the Primordial God of time comes from the Orphic texts. HE/and Arkane dosent do shit in those texts other than circle the world egg. No titanomachy no Giantomachy they are just there and completely featless. Being Primordial dosent make you more powerful or weaker, The Greek entities are just what they are an exmple being the Giant Typhoon was so terrifying that Nyx was scare shitless of him and zeus.



I never said he was powerful just that he was different from Cronus which you haven't disproven other than weird nonsense involving wave particles. You're also forgetting that Orphic texts weren't the only ones to write about him. He has been attested elsewhere. I just told you and slightly goofed up on it.


Cain1234 said:


> The concept of Cronos's titan of the golden comes from classical greek, Hesiodon and Homeric. He actually does shit, then gets his balls chopped off. Yet as time went on he was equated to the Primordial Embodiment of time Chrono's and became one.


Equated because of errors or misunderstandings or similarities. Cronus has some similarities with Chronos in that they both deal with time but in different ways. However they are very different people given the Greek letters that are written for them as well as how they are etymologically different. Chronos has different functions from Cronus and has only ever once encountered Zeus in any myths that have been recorded while Cronus has consistently confronted and opposed Zeus.


Cain1234 said:


> Chronos has appeared in 3 series as three entities. Episode G as a titan, ND as a Primordial, Omega as Saturn.


Wrong. They are all separate characters. One is a Greek Titan of the Harvest, one is a Primordial God of Time and one is a Roman God that amalgamates both into one.


Cain1234 said:


> Ohh, so you wanna play it that way. Guess what equavelence works both ways. If this was saint seiya chronos would be the embodiment of time. IN a neutral world his title of God mean jackshit. He governs the Greek timeline and no one elses. In a neutral setting he has no power other than making a woman into a baby. See what i did there.


What the fuck are you on about? His title as god doesn't mean anything anyways. He's a god because that's what he is in series. More specifically a Protogenoi. And "Greek timeline?" What the fuck? Have you suffered an aneurysm?


Cain1234 said:


> No he dosent, as per rule of equivalence. He can't effect or destroy anything beyond the saint seiya universe or more specifically the Greek frame of Consciousness, while Zeno can exist beyond time.


It's in his abilities to do so. I don't know why the fuck you're disputing this now over your misunderstanding of the equivalence rule.


Cain1234 said:


> Chronos dosent have the ability to erase timeline. No one in Greek Mythology or Saint Seiya can.
> 
> Feat >> hype
> That is the standard rule.


Hades did, the Titans did, Apollo did, etc. There are many instances of the Olympians and Titans creating, erasing and maintaining universes. It's not my fault you can't read.


Cain1234 said:


> Shaka is the fucking buddha. Iapatos is a shitty as fk Greek Titan. Who does not understand the concept that Gods are the product of man. And ignorantly believes that Humans are lesser than Gods. When it is clearly the other way around
> 
> Buddha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Entire Greek Pantheon.


Now this just confirms you've never read Saint Seiya. Shaka is not the Buddha. He is shown talking with the Buddha. Unless Shaka is schizophrenic, that is impossible to do so if they are one and the same. Further, one cannot be a Buddha and stay on the Earth. At best, Shaka is a Boddhisatva, not one of the several Buddhas that exist. And just to finish your dumb tangent, Buddhism hasn't been properly showcased in Saint Seiya outside of the Virgo Saints. We have never seen very much Buddhist mythology or iconography represented. So you can drop your dumb attempts at trying to powerscale mythologies when Saint Seiya shows the Olympians being the supreme ones.

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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Only time we ever actually saw Buddha was when Shaka was having his final monologue with him right before he died using the final activation of Heaven's Treasure against the trio's Athena Exclamation. So yeah he exists, but otherwise on the ball correct as well that he's featless and his relation with other Gods is completely unknown. Cain claiming he's above the Greek Pantheon of Olympians or Titans is nonsensical.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## God Movement (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> The issue might be just possibly related to *him* claiming he's going to debunk every single Saint Seiya speed feat despite not understanding specific statements were given on speeds they were going to surpass. By the same token we can throw out faster then light speed calculations for anything because human understanding as it stands currently can't grasp how anything can exceed the speed of light when possessing actual physical mass in the first place.
> 
> Its a tad hypocritical wouldn't you say, GM, what he's claiming that planck speeds and surpassing the initial expansion of the universe being "unknown" should be discounted here?



Well yeah, our current understanding is that the initial expansion of the universe was very, very fast so unless our understanding changes we just go with whatever is commonly accepted in the scientific world. Worth keeping in mind that for the author to even mention the expansion speed of the universe (this isn't something that is commonly known in the absence of research) that he was aware of exactly how fast it is.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> Only time we ever actually saw Buddha was when Shaka was having his final monologue with him right before he died using the final activation of Heaven's Treasure against the trio's Athena Exclamation. So yeah he exists, but otherwise on the ball correct as well that he's featless and his relation with other Gods is completely unknown. Cain claiming he's above the Greek Pantheon of Olympians or Titans is nonsensical.


I don't deny the Buddha or Buddhas exist (there's more than one in Buddhism) as Shaka is shown talking to him. Just that Shaka is not a Buddha let alone the supreme Buddha. I might have communicated that a bit poorly with my remark about Shaka being schizophrenic. What I meant to say is Shaka cannot commune with the Buddha and be him at the same time, that doesn't make sense, both within Buddhism and the series hence my remark about Cain seeming to think Shaka is a schizo. Sorry, I goofed again


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I don't deny the Buddha or Buddhas exist (there's more than one in Buddhism) as Shaka is shown talking to him. Just that Shaka is not a Buddha let alone the supreme Buddha. I might have communicated that a bit poorly with my remark about Shaka being schizophrenic. What I meant to say is Shaka cannot commune with the Buddha and be him at the same time, that doesn't make sense, both within Buddhism and the series hence my remark about Cain seeming to think Shaka is a schizo. Sorry, I goofed again



Yeah I know what you mean.

Virgo Fudo was also said to be another Buddhista or whatever as the incarnation of Acala.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cain1234 (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> That's disturbing. Please don't say anything like that again. Or better yet stop posting.


No you do that. I am not going to do anything. So take it in little bitch.



> Are you fucking kidding me? Who the fuck would be able to take his place? Zeus ensured no one ever could. Why do you think the whole thing of eating Metis happened?


Are you fuck shitting me. Eating metis was to prevent a the kinslayer  prophecy from being established. It wouldn't stop Poseidon  or Hera from seizing power.



> No Zeus was pissed at Hypnos for his* trickery *which is pretty common for Zeus to be upset at given his temper tantrums over trivial matters within Greek mythology.
> 
> 
> You earlier said he needed Hera's help. He really didn't. He could have put Zeus to sleep if he damn well wanted to which he didn't. Sleep is his domain and Zeus would be powerless against it. What does the OBD call it again? Oh that's right, HAX. Yeah Zeus shits on Hypnos in overall stats but he has no resistance to being put to sleep against his will. Sure I'll give you that Hera allowed him to get his sleep spells in without being noticed but she didn't contribute to his abilities at all. Hera has no power over sleep like Hypnos does.



Concession Accepted, your limited understanding of the *special abilities of individual* and repeated use of the word *Hax* only solidifies you incapability of understanding anything beyond your limited field of knowledge.



> Spider-Man is the most well known hero in Marvel Comics. I can't believe you don't know this. You missed my point and badly. Yeah Heracles is the most well known hero but he's not the only one. There's Jason, Odysseys, Achilles and many more. And that's not just heroes, there's gods, Titans, Primordials, Nymphs, Daimons, etc. There's hax in Greek mythology if you look for it.



Hax is just a lazy word for unexplained special powers. I used Hercules cause he outright smashes most special abilities to the curb. In fact look at his death. Despite all his feat of strength and invulnerability he died from a poisoned cloth given by his wife.



> ???
> 
> The fuck are you bringing them up for? Also, no. Zeno is shown to be affected by the flux of time or else he wouldn't be



The fuck are you talking about. When was Zeno effected by "time".





> affected by time in DB even though he regularly is.



When was he show to be effected by time.



> He's not Chronos who exists throughout all of space and time at once.



No he dose't Chronos exists in a seperate space where he does his stuff about maintain timelines.



> I haven't mentioned time paradoxes. It's clear you don't understand them at all. A decision that affects the present can affect him in the future thus he is casual and subject to time.



No it can't as Beerus so eloquently shown. Changes to the present will also create timelines.



> Way to prove my point. Glad we agree that Zeno is subject to the laws of causality and time.



No he isn't. You haven't proven shit nor give any descent example of why you think zeno is subject to causality or time. When he blew up all of space time and was still existing.



> Because he has counterparts of himself in other timelines? So what? Is that supposed to impress me or something?


As much as Chrono's effecting other timeline would impress me.




> Not really. You have to prove that Zeno can handle being turned into a baby or being put to sleep against his will or can handle his senses being taken away which you can't because he hasn't encountered those haxes yet.


Not really you have to show me Chrono's effecting someone like Zeno who has existed beyond the creation of universes. Or even more specifically him being a baby. Infact I think Zeno is a baby normally, i dont see how you can make an infantile being who can erase all of space/time into even more of a baby.

Also you have to he needs to sleep or have senses. Considering both of those are very ningen concepts.




> You haven't demonstrated that. You did demonstrate Zeno can be affected by causality and time which are part of Chronos' domain so I hope Zeno enjoys getting fucked over by Father Time.



Before or after Zeno erases him. Father



> Stop. You're killing me. The Doctor isn't a fucking scientist. He's a fucking Time Lord. You know, AN ALIEN! And an exceptional one at that. Christ, the fact you think Dr. Who is a documentary kills me. I should dismiss you out of hand with that statement. FFS he has TARDIS. Yeah try making that in your garage sometime. I'd love to see you try.



He is a scientist you retarded pos. Scientist is a VERY broad spectrum job.




> Because he's my good friend and he knows more than I do? He has posted examples of how Athena and even fucking Shura is immune to causality.



Please post them, cause I may have overlooked them Saint Seiya if nothing else is a vast series. And I like looking over feats. And whats your gripe with Shura, he is cool.




> But that's a disparity between his physical stats and his hax resistance. He himself is street level in physical stats but his mind can tank telepathic attacks up to planet level. I'm using that example as proof that hax doesn't equal overall stats. Harlock is street level but he can tank and is resistant to mind haxes up to planet level. Is that easy to follow or do I need to simplify it down even more?



But its not really hax, mind control is pretty common in fiction. It also is a stat, the stat is called mental fortitude. If your mental fortitude is high enough you can resist mind control. Reguardless of the method of mindcontroll you can outright tank it reguardless of cosmetic nature of mind control.




> Acting like a retard. Sure, says the guy who couldn't tell I was making fun of him.



I can tell, you want to incite feeling of annoyance. But all you are doing is prooving how retarded you are but responding to it. 




> What the fuck is this bastardization of Greek thought I'm reading? Chronos is not Cronus. I've posted the etymology and Fang posted the Greek. They are not the same at all. Jesus H Yamato, you're going to extraordinary lengths to cover up contradictions. You wanna know why there's contradictions? Because the Greek myths were passed down orally. There was no unified Greek myth, there were numerous ones. Greek myth doesn't really have much of a continuity and that's to be expected when the stories were communicated verbally.



Of course there are or were hundreds of Greek Scholars and Poets who put their own pieces into the Greek Mythos. I many time Chronos and Kronos were and are equated as the same being.




> I never said he was powerful just that he was different from Cronus which you haven't disproven other than weird nonsense involving wave particles. You're also forgetting that Orphic texts weren't the only ones to write about him. He has been attested elsewhere. I just told you and slightly goofed up on it.




Orphirism is the most common one, in fact, other that Orphic text and by extension Dionsysica, Chronos is barely mentiond. The most common difference between Chronos and Kronos is their parentage.

Some don't touch him at all.

In Hesiod or Homeric Kronos is the only one that exists. He is the son of Uranus and Gaia
In Orphiric Texts Kronos is a seperate entity that comes from Nox and Uranus. While Chronos existed before both.




> Wrong. They are all separate characters. One is a Greek Titan of the Harvest, one is a Primordial God of Time and one is a Roman God that amalgamates both into one.



All three exists in saint saiya.




> What the fuck are you on about? His title as god doesn't mean anything anyways. He's a god because that's what he is in series. More specifically a Protogenoi. And "Greek timeline?" What the fuck? Have you suffered an aneurysm?



I am laughing my ass off. Seeing you have an aneurysm is amusing. Keep doing what you do.



> It's in his abilities to do so. I don't know why the fuck you're disputing this now over your misunderstanding of the equivalence rule.





> Hades did, the Titans did, Apollo did, etc. There are many instances of the Olympians and Titans creating, erasing and maintaining universes. It's not my fault you can't read.



Erasing multiple universes instanty, even more specifically universe whose size exceeded the DB universe . None have done it. Hade's did it as a side effect of him dying. Show me prove of ACTUAL universe busting. None of the titans have busted universes. Pocket Dimesions, yes but DB has shit lode of those too.

It's not my fault your a child suffering from aneurysm, who lack the ability to debate.

Good Day to you sir.

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

>Cain still arguing about Saint Seiya
>when its clear he has no idea what he's talking about
>which was already readily apparent when confusing Cronos with Chronos and having no idea what the concept of hax generally is in OBD vernacular

Literally a barrel of laughs.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Id (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> I have a question, How does Chronos beat Zeno?
> What does he have in his arsenal that can effectively effect Zeno.
> 
> When Zeno can erase all of time along with all of space, and still exist beyond it.


 Megas Drepanon was built exclusively to slay Gods.


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> But that's not the Big Bang though... That's just Shura swinging his sword and conserving his form, which is what you do when you're well-versed in CQC combat anyway.
> 
> Nah man, and @iwandesu used wikipedia to get his information, which can be rewritten at any point in time with some nub.


no i didn't
i used a couple of sites, including wikipedia to get timeframe and size



> The Big Bang didn't exceed the speed of ligh*t, it couldn't have because science states it couldn't as NOTHING exceeds the speed of light,* I understand this is fiction that I'm talking about, and I'm not saying they aren't MFTL either but there's no way in hell he could have gotten that calc because it would make absolutely no sense. And everyone just accepted it. Just like that.


quantum physics say hi
actual logic says hi because there are points in the universe without light which means universe expansion>ls
you are retarded.
have a nice day.

Reactions: Like 7


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> no i didn't
> i used a couple of sites, including wikipedia to get timeframe and size
> 
> 
> ...


this is why you don`t argue against stuff you have no Idea @Gomu


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 30, 2017)

Why are people arguing Speed when Chronos is implied to be a Multiversal Omnipresent across Space-Time.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> Why are people arguing Speed when Chronos is implied to be a Multiversal Omnipresent across Space-Time.


he actully extends way beyond that

but then again

OP changed it into Titan Cronos


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 30, 2017)

Anyway, for people who say Chronos is "Featless" or "Fodder", or who's only information we have is that he turned Athena into a baby:

We know that he is the only God which transcends the 12 Olympians:



"O único capaz de fazê-lo não é um dos 12 Olímpicos. O único deus que transcende a eles..."

"The sole god capable of doing it is not one of the 12 Olympians. He is the sole god that transcends them..."

When Athena and Hecate meet up with Chronos in Chapter 19, they meet him in a lake that encompasses all of time, and is also beyond it. The entire Macrocosmos is within it:



_"Não é só uma, podemos ver todas as nebulosas do Macrocosmos. Neste lugar, se mesclam o passado e o futuro. Este é o mundo que transcende o tempo."_

_"It's not just one, we can see all Nebulae of the Macrocosmos. In this place, past and future are one. It is the world that transcends time."



"Se entrar nas outras nebulosas por engano, seras enviada para um passado ou futuro completamente diferentes."

"If you enter other nebulae by mistake, you shall be sent to completely different pasts or futures."
_
Chronos is established as a formless deity, yet he lies within a place that encompass the entire Multiverse and beyond, where all of time is one. It is very likely that Chronos is simply one with everything. He's in every space-time continuum simultaneously, at every point in time at once. Chronos isn't just all of time, he transcends it.


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## God (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> he actully extends way beyond that
> 
> but then again
> 
> OP changed it into Titan Cronos



There's no speed tier higher than omnipresence, unless I'm missing something.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

God said:


> There's no speed tier higher than omnipresence, unless I'm missing something.


No. i meant that chronos encompasses more


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Well even though we use that number for the exapansion of the universe it isnt a given just how fast it happened.We are not sure if the big bang even really happened and what exactly created the universe.

I dont matter about using the speed the feat already was calcuated as but just for the sake of what happened in our universe.Big bang is one of the possibilities.


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 30, 2017)

The Big Bang is canon in Saint Seiya though, it's a fact not a possibility.


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> That's disturbing. Please don't say anything like that again. Or better yet stop posting.
> 
> Are you fucking kidding me? Who the fuck would be able to take his place? Zeus ensured no one ever could. Why do you think the whole thing of eating Metis happened? No Zeus was pissed at Hypnos for his trickery which is pretty common for Zeus to be upset at given his temper tantrums over trivial matters within Greek mythology.
> 
> ...


While i dont know what the correct word for the god is the name should have been taken from the greek word χρονος which in english means time.Dont know if that was already stated.

Oh i think i got it.There is the titan κρονος who birthed zeus and the gods and then ate them and there is χρονος which means time and is an abstract aspect.No idea about the roman mythology but the greek one didnt quite treat χρονος as a god in the same way as the twelve olympians though i may be slightly wrong.The fates use time in order to end the life of someone and even the gods can die.


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

You did not get me exactly.What i meant is that in our world big bang is one of the possibilities.We use the speed of the big bang as it is thought now for the speed of the feat.Though i have no problem with that.


MatthewSchroeder said:


> The Big Bang is canon in Saint Seiya though, it's a fact not a possibillity.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

God Movement said:


> Well yeah, our current understanding is that the initial expansion of the universe was very, very fast so unless our understanding changes we just go with whatever is commonly accepted in the scientific world. Worth keeping in mind that for the author to even mention the expansion speed of the universe (this isn't something that is commonly known in the absence of research) that he was aware of exactly how fast it is.


Uh... You sure about that? Because Saint Seiya hasn't been very uh... "Scientific" up to this point in anything at all.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> this is why you don`t argue against stuff you have no Idea @Gomu


Stop acting like you're a fucking scientist debating on a site based on a boy who has a demon in his stomach trying to be a ninja with an orange costume.


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## God Movement (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Uh... You sure about that? Because Saint Seiya hasn't been very uh... "Scientific" up to this point in anything at all.



I'm sure. Not sure what the discrepancy is about though.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

God Movement said:


> I'm sure. Not sure what the discrepancy is about though.


The discrepancy is that in science in the real world, in the theory of relativity it was stated that the "speed of light" can't be transcended, but we're using the initial expansion of the big bang to increase the speed of characters when it could not have been above the speed of light otherwise matter wouldn't have existed after that point because the speed of light literally be mass-less. But what @Blakk Jakk was stating that the Plank scenario would move the big bang at beyond the speed of light.


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> The discrepancy is that in science in the real world, in the theory of relativity it was stated that the "speed of light" can't be transcended, but we're using the initial expansion of the big bang to increase the speed of characters when it could not have been above the speed of light otherwise matter wouldn't have existed after that point because the speed of light literally be mass-less. But what @Blakk Jakk was stating that the Plank scenario would move the big bang at beyond the speed of light.


Actually some things can surpass light.the expansion of the universe is one of them.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Toaa said:


> Actually some things can surpass light.the expansion of the universe is one of them.


No. Did you look at the site I posted. It stated that, "No, the expansion of the universe did not exceed the speed of light".


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Thats what i found.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Toaa said:


> Thats what i found.


Seems more like he's an unserious person, especially with putting a loaf of bread in the middle of a space-time wormhole pic.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Here's what I found:


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## God Movement (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> The discrepancy is that in science in the real world, in the theory of relativity it was stated that the "speed of light" can't be transcended, but we're using the initial expansion of the big bang to increase the speed of characters when it could not have been above the speed of light otherwise matter wouldn't have existed after that point because the speed of light literally be mass-less. But what @Blakk Jakk was stating that the Plank scenario would move the big bang at beyond the speed of light.



Ok. But some theories state the opposite and say that the expansion of the universe did indeed surpass the speed of light, by quite a margin. The author quite obviously referred to that theory as Gold Saints moving at the speed of light is nothing significant nor major. In fact, it's a prerequisite to even being a Gold Saint.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> No you do that. I am not going to do anything. So take it in little bitch.


And you get creepier and creepier. Not to mention that sounded gay. Please keep away from me.


Cain1234 said:


> Are you fuck shitting me. Eating metis was to prevent a the kinslayer  prophecy from being established. It wouldn't stop Poseidon  or Hera from seizing power.


Poseidon rules the fucking sea. Zeus, Hades and Poseidon drew lots about what part of Earth they’d rule. Poseidon has no reason to try and take Zeus’ domain and he’s never done it before. Also Hera rules Olympus with him as the “Queen of the Gods” so bringing her up was stupid.


Cain1234 said:


> Concession Accepted, your limited understanding of the *special abilities of individual* and repeated use of the word *Hax* only solidifies you incapability of understanding anything beyond your limited field of knowledge.


You just stated what a hax is. I can’t believe you don’t know what the fuck a hax is.


Cain1234 said:


> Hax is just a lazy word for unexplained special powers. I used Hercules cause he outright smashes most special abilities to the curb. In fact look at his death. Despite all his feat of strength and invulnerability he died from a poisoned cloth given by his wife.


No, hax is defined simply as a special ability or application of abilities. Also, it doesn’t matter what Heracles did. Yeah he’s a bruiser, so what? You gonna say Marvel or DC don’t have hax because their most famous characters don’t? Well actually, Supes does and so does Spidey but given you don’t know what the fuck a hax is, I wouldn’t be surprised if you try and act as though those 2 don’t have any hax whatsoever.


Cain1234 said:


> The fuck are you talking about. When was Zeno effected by "time”.


Almost every single time a timeline has been meddled with. The fact that Zeno meets his future self and isn’t omnipresent throughout time or the like shows he’s not acausal.


Cain1234 said:


> When was he show to be effected by time.


When timelines are being meddled with as well as him taking his sweet ass to get to Zamasu.


Cain1234 said:


> No he dose't Chronos exists in a seperate space where he does his stuff about maintain timelines.


Yeah he’s in an existence that transcends space and time. That isn’t the same as Zeno.


Cain1234 said:


> No it can't as Beerus so eloquently shown. Changes to the present will also create timelines.


Yeah and? That happens a lot in fiction. Doesn’t make them acausal.


Cain1234 said:


> No he isn't. You haven't proven shit nor give any descent example of why you think zeno is subject to causality or time. When he blew up all of space time and was still existing.


Blowing up a multiverse means nothing if he is shown to be affected by time and causality. I don’t know why you bring this up as if it means anything.


Cain1234 said:


> As much as Chrono's effecting other timeline would impress me.


I don’t really care if you are or not since you seem to think Dr. Who is a documentary.


Cain1234 said:


> Not really you have to show me Chrono's effecting someone like Zeno who has existed beyond the creation of universes. Or even more specifically him being a baby. Infact I think Zeno is a baby normally, i dont see how you can make an infantile being who can erase all of space/time into even more of a baby.


Because he can revert Zeno to a fetal and early stage in his existence if he so chooses to.


Cain1234 said:


> Also you have to he needs to sleep or have senses. Considering both of those are very ningen concepts.


Don’t quote a fucking meme at me. You need to prove that Zeno is immune to sleep. If you can’t show him resisting a sleep spell then simply put, he can’t resist a sleep spell which by the way has multiversal range since it was able to affect Zeus against his will.


Cain1234 said:


> Before or after Zeno erases him. Father


As if Zeno will ever get that chance. Father Time will have erased Zeno before he even processes a thought.


Cain1234 said:


> He is a scientist you retarded pos. Scientist is a VERY broad spectrum job.


No shit that I know this? But you wanna know why an everyday scientist can’t achieve what Chronos can? BECAUSE DOCTOR WHO IS NOT REAL! Seriously, I can’t believe you don’t know this. Most of what Doctor Who can do is impossible by real life physics. Like I said, if you want to prove me wrong, build a functioning TARDIS in your garage. I guarantee you that you can’t.


Cain1234 said:


> Please post them, cause I may have overlooked them Saint Seiya if nothing else is a vast series. And I like looking over feats. And whats your gripe with Shura, he is cool.


To quote @SF latif


SF latif said:


> >literally the entire Space-time is forcing casuality on Shura
> >Athena comes in and lolnopes it with her Ichor
> >Shura Gains Resistence to universal Space-time casuality
> >Shura gains all of his memories despite his body being much younger


Thanks, buddy, you’re real help here.


Cain1234 said:


> But its not really hax, mind control is pretty common in fiction. It also is a stat, the stat is called mental fortitude. If your mental fortitude is high enough you can resist mind control. Reguardless of the method of mindcontroll you can outright tank it reguardless of cosmetic nature of mind control.


It wasn’t mind control. It was causing the entire planet agony and pain and inducing fear in them. Harlock not only tanked it, he was unaffected by it. As we see later in the OVA, Harlock also broke an illusion and resisted a possession that would have taken his very soul. That is hax resistance.


Cain1234 said:


> I can tell, you want to incite feeling of annoyance. But all you are doing is prooving how retarded you are but responding to it.


Nah, me responding to you and you saying dumb shit like Dr. Who is a scientist is enough for anyone to point fingers at you and laugh. But please, continue making yourself an ass of yourself so we can all laugh at you some more.


Cain1234 said:


> Of course there are or were hundreds of Greek Scholars and Poets who put their own pieces into the Greek Mythos. I many time Chronos and Kronos were and are equated as the same being.


In later times. Read the fine print, doofus. Even Toaa who’s Greek says that they’re not and the same.


Cain1234 said:


> Orphirism is the most common one, in fact, other that Orphic text and by extension Dionsysica, Chronos is barely mentiond. The most common difference between Chronos and Kronos is their parentage.
> 
> Some don't touch him at all.


Which just proves my point that they’re not the same god. Chronos is a Primordial God of Time that rules time with his wife Ananake (“necessity”). He had no involvement with the other Protogenoi or the Titans for that matter. And most importantly of all, Zeus only appears in one recorded myth with Chronos and it wasn’t an adversarial relationship which just further shows that they’re not the same god.


Cain1234 said:


> In Hesiod or Homeric Kronos is the only one that exists. He is the son of Uranus and Gaia
> 
> In Orphiric Texts Kronos is a seperate entity that comes from Nox and Uranus. While Chronos existed before both.


Which again shows that they are not one and the same. It simply means that in later times in Greek history, people started conflating them by accident because of how they govern different aspects of time as well as their names being similar. It’s not an unrealistic error for people to make. Mythology is kind of like a game of telephone in that way. People will misinterpret or reinterpret or emphasize or forget details and get something wholly different from another myth. You can’t expect there to be perfect continuity between myths so don’t treat them as if there is one.


Cain1234 said:


> All three exists in saint saiya.


Yes they do. As separate characters. There is no reason to indicate they’re all the same guy under different names especially with Chronos who Athena couldn’t recognize. Given she was born before the Titanomachy happened and was involved with it, you’d think she’d know about Cronus.


Cain1234 said:


> I am laughing my ass off. Seeing you have an aneurysm is amusing. Keep doing what you do.


Dude. You think Doctor Who is real. What else is there to say? I think you’ve had a brain aneurysm and are in need of medical help.


Cain1234 said:


> Erasing multiple universes instanty, even more specifically universe whose size exceeded the DB universe . None have done it. Hade's did it as a side effect of him dying. Show me prove of ACTUAL universe busting. None of the titans have busted universes. Pocket Dimesions, yes but DB has shit lode of those too.


That side effect was because Hades maintained a universe bigger than the IRL universe. The fact that it was a side effect means nothing, it just shows that the universe was tied to him and his power. This is repeated again with the Titans and their own universes. Also, Apollo legitimately hand waved a universe out of existence. I’d love for you to downplay that feat again because you’ve done a great job of showing what a clown you are.


Cain1234 said:


> It's not my fault your a child suffering from aneurysm, who lack the ability to debate.


Dude, I almost got nominated for best debater in the awards. You’re probably gonna win worst debater if not worst member. 

And calling me a child is funny when you’re the one who thinks fucking Doctor Who is real. Tell me who’s the child? It’s not me because I can tell fantasy from reality.


Cain1234 said:


> Good Day to you sir.


Goodbye and don’t come back.

Reactions: Like 4


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

God Movement said:


> Ok. But some theories state the opposite and say that the expansion of the universe did indeed surpass the speed of light, by quite a margin. The author quite obviously referred to that theory as Gold Saints moving at the speed of light is nothing significant nor major. In fact, it's a prerequisite to even being a Gold Saint.


Infact, during the same fight Shura was moving way faster than light, and he still couldn`t overcome Roland

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

God Movement said:


> Ok. But some theories state the opposite and say that the expansion of the universe did indeed surpass the speed of light, by quite a margin. The author quite obviously referred to that theory as Gold Saints moving at the speed of light is nothing significant nor major. In fact, it's a prerequisite to even being a Gold Saint.


Thank you for actually being sensible and seeing that there's two sides to this coin, GM, holy shit. I can't help but respect that shit.

Yes you'd be right it refers to the clause that the initial big bang did exceed the speed of light. Not that, that matters as I'm not a calculator, I can't disprove shit no matter what I say. The consensus won't care either.

But still there is a theory that states that there was no  "speed" to relate to it. So said "speed" would in fact be unquantifiable as their was no such thing as speed in the initial big bang. But I already gave props to @Blakk Jakk, so I was done after that. All I'm saying is you can't pick and choose what's right and what's wrong and it would make no sense, in my lowly opinion that the initial expansion of one universe no matter how large it was for the SSverse would exceed the focal point of an explosion of a blast capable of wiping out 12 universes at once.

I have no choice but to agree with that consensus.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

It doesn't even matter if one is a calculator or not, that's literally not even the reference being made. No one can be this daft. The author uses a currently held theory physics and energy to explain why Shura is going at a specific speed, in a specific speed. Get the hell over it and move on.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> It doesn't even matter if one is a calucaltor or not, that's literally not even the reference being made. No one can be this daft. The author uses a currently held theory physics and energy to explain why Shura is going at a specific speed, in a specific speed. Get the hell over it and move on.


Yeah and you shun the theory that says that said blast was unquantifiable. Good on you Fang.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Yeah and you shun the theory that says that said blast was unquantifiable. Good on you Fang.



I think you need to learn to read what I said. Because the entire thread you've:

a) demonstrated you have no idea about Saint Seiya
b) you don't read Saint Seiya
c) you completely tried to ignore the narration itself explaining what a Gold Saint is doing
d) the author giving a very explicit and very specific narration of Shura being > planck speeds
e) the article you tried to list which doesn't detract or debunk the current theory about the big bang

And on top of that, completely mistranslate anything I said or anyone else to the point even Iwandesu came here to tell you to shut up because of your feeble attempt to throw it out while proclaiming you would "debunk" Saint Seiya like a certain troll claimed years ago which got him anally torn.

Not buying it.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> I think you need to learn to read what I said. Because the entire thread you've:
> 
> a) demonstrated you have no idea about Saint Seiya
> b) you don't read Saint Seiya
> ...


That's all your opinion, I've been reading Saint Seiya (as in I watched the horrible American dub on CN) for as long as I can remember, it's the factors of the initial speed of the big bang theory that got me intrigued about why that is considered so fast compared to destroying 12 universes in an instant, that's all. It has nothing to do with not knowing Saint Seiya because I didn't know the numbers were so different.

But sure, Fang, you know everything.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

And since he wants to talk about it so much. How is the technique quantifiable in the least. Shura states that the attack was indeed a "miracle" meaning that unless he had his God Cloth (subsequently all other Gold's would need their cloths as well) he wouldn't be able to reestablish such a feat as being casual. So tell me. How do you give a literally unquantifiable feat to normal Gold's when they'd need their God Cloths to even perform it. 

Curious.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> That's all your opinion, I've been reading Saint Seiya (as in I watched the horrible American dub on CN) for as long as I can remember, it's the factors of the initial speed of the big bang theory that got me intrigued about why that is considered so fast compared to destroying 12 universes in an instant, that's all. It has nothing to do with not knowing Saint Seiya because I didn't know the numbers were so different.
> 
> But sure, Fang, you know everything.



You don't seem to know what you are talking given you gave a very direct example of being wrong regarding why Shaka doesn't use his vision commonly to conserve his Cosmos. Then you brought up using an explosion that destroyed 6 universes by Zeno to claim he has a speed advantage while hypocritically claiming we don't know enough about the big bang to dismiss Shura's speed feat, which hilariously even disregarding, Saint Seiya still shits over DBS in speed feats thanks to the Elysion crossing with the Gold Cloths and Bronze Saints.

So let's recap:

- Your knowledge of Saint Seiya is horrible
- You used a completely unknown regarding destroy 6 universes (which human understanding does not actually know what would encompass given its a metaphysical theory in the first place) while dismissing how the big bang is understood in the same token

People are not taking you seriously for a reason.

"This doesn't count for Saint Seiya because it bothers me, but its totally okay for DBS!"

Chill on the double standards.

Also back on the whole you have no idea what you are talking about?


Gomu said:


> And since he wants to talk about it so much. How is the technique quantifiable in the least. Shura states that the attack was indeed a "miracle" meaning that unless he had his God Cloth (subsequently all other Gold's would need their cloths as well) he wouldn't be able to reestablish such a feat as being casual. So tell me. How do you give a literally unquantifiable feat to normal Gold's when they'd need their God Cloths to even perform it.
> 
> Curious.



>Shura
>"God Cloth"

Was using his standard Gold Cloth.

Bringing up the term miracle? Just an expression for surpassing previous limits or pulling off something thought improbable. Standard vernacular in Saint Seiya. Then the fact we have Saga blitzing other Gold Saints in their Gold Cloths without wearing his dictating that your claim about needing their Cloths/armors to surpass the Speed of Light as dead in the water.

So stop being a fucking hypocrite.

Destroying a universe is unquantifable too, don't give me your cry baby antics over this. Otherwise we're going to being throwing out plenty from DBS by your inane "logic".

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> You don't seem to know what you are talking given you gave a very direct example of being wrong regarding why Shaka doesn't use his vision commonly to conserve his Cosmos. Then you brought up using an explosion that destroyed 6 universes by Zeno to claim he has a speed advantage while hypocritically claiming we don't know enough about the big bang to dismiss Shura's speed feat, which hilariously even disregarding, Saint Seiya still shits over DBS in speed feats thanks to the Elysion crossing with the Gold Cloths and Bronze Saints.
> 
> So let's recap:
> 
> ...


No, he destroyed 12 UNIVERSES last I checked. So i can make inferences from what you just stated as well:

- Your knowledge of DBS is horrible.
- You use a theory that is stated to both be unquantifiable and which goes against the underlying theory of relativity that states matter with mass cannot exceed the speed of light.

I don't take you seriously because you're a person who can't be taken seriously, consensus is bullshit, just because you feel something is "quality" does not mean everything within its context is right.

You need to chill on being an asshole.

Reactions: Dislike 5


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> No, he destroyed 12 UNIVERSES last I checked. So i can make inferences from what you just stated as well:
> 
> - Your knowledge of DBS is horrible.
> - You use a theory that is stated to both be unquantifiable and which goes against the underlying theory of relativity that states matter with mass cannot exceed the speed of light.
> ...



Literally no rebuttal to what I said, literally you are incapable of anything remotely approaching an informed opinion and unlike you I pay attention to both Saint Seiya and DBS. 

Secondly: theory of relativity holds no more validity then the current consensus on the big bang or big crunch or the big freeze. Its still a theory for a reason. So until you pony up and actually learn something, no one is buying your attempts to poison the well on Saint Seiya feats or calcs.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nep Heart (Jan 30, 2017)

Pretty sure the speed difference between Zeno's multiverse buster and Shura outpacing the initial Big Bang has less to do with sheer size and more so timeframe. A human "instant" is nowhere remotely near immensely tiny timeframes such as planck time. Not to mention reacting to it at close ranges serves to make it even more impressive. You can travel the distance of the entire observable universe several times over faster than peak humans can notice, but you'll still be slower than say someone who could react in planck time. Size isn't everything.

That's the primary difference I'm getting between Iwandesu and God Movement's calcs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> Literally no rebuttal to what I said, literally you are incapable of anything remotely approaching an informed opinion and unlike you I pay attention to both Saint Seiya and DBS.
> 
> Secondly: theory of relativity holds no more validity then the current consensus on the big bang or big crunch or the big freeze. Its still a theory for a reason. So until you pony up and actually learn something, no one is buying your attempts to poison the well on Saint Seiya feats or calcs.


You obviously don't pay attention to DBS, because if you did you would have known that the Future Omni-King destroyed every universe in Trunks' future effortlessly and in an instant.

Except it does. The big bang was a big ball of matter, stardust, or whatever the fuck Saint Seiya wants to call it, expanding at below the speed of light, why? Einstein's theory of relativity states that: "Anything with a mass can't exceed the speed of light", thus why the universe is stated to be still expanding even to this day.

All the dislikes in the world can't stop you from being an asshole, Fang.


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> Pretty sure the speed difference between Zeno's multiverse buster and Shura outpacing the initial Big Bang has less to do with sheer size and more so timeframe. A human "instant" is nowhere remotely near immensely tiny timeframes such as planck time. Not to mention reacting to it at close ranges serves to make it even more impressive. You can travel the distance of the entire observable universe several times over faster than peak humans can notice, but you'll still be slower than say someone who could react in planck time. Size isn't everything.
> 
> That's the primary difference I'm getting between Iwandesu and God Movement's calcs.



Around 10^-44 sec

Difference.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> Pretty sure the speed difference between Zeno's multiverse buster and Shura outpacing the initial Big Bang has less to do with sheer size and more so timeframe. A human "instant" is nowhere remotely near immensely tiny timeframes such as planck time. Not to mention reacting to it at close ranges serves to make it even more impressive. You can travel the distance of than the entire observable universe several times over faster than peak humans can notice, but you'll still be slower than say someone who could react in planck time. Size isn't everything.
> 
> That's the primary difference I'm getting between Iwandesu and God Movement's calcs.


Amp. I have no problem with that. I just thought it was weird was all so I looked into it deeper. If it's what they say it is, it's what they say it is, I gave a concession to @Blakk Jakk last night about it because there's literally nothing I can say or do about it that would change it.

But it does not change the fact that there are still multiple theories of the big bang, one of them stating that the creation of space-time in itself would have been unquantifiable (i.e. the initial acceleration of the big bang.)

And also that regular Gold Saints get a feat that is stated by the person themselves saying that "this was a miracle I created", he can't perform the attack casually, only in that one instance did he use it meaning that he's a lot slower than people give him credit for.


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## XImpossibruX (Jan 30, 2017)

Just wondering, if Zeno destroyed the entirety of Future Trunks timeline, how did Goku go back to it?


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> You obviously don't pay attention to DBS, because if you did you would have known that the Future Omni-King destroyed every universe in Trunks' future effortlessly and in an instant.



Don't care, not even remotely related to the argument and Zeno was stated to be able to destroy the DBS multiverse. His onscreen feat is wiping out six universes at once which is why there's only 12 now in the present before erasing everything in the future to prevent Zamasu from spreading across all of it.

Keep your non-sequitur arguments to yourself.



> Except it does. The big bang was a big ball of matter, stardust, or whatever the fuck Saint Seiya wants to call it, expanding at below the speed of light, why? Einstein's theory of relativity states that: "Anything with a mass can't exceed the speed of light", thus why the universe is stated to be still expanding even to this day.



Wrong. Theory of relativity is still a THEORY. Secondly, you completely miss the fact that you are an utter hypocrite because you are pushing unknowns that aren't quantified nor covered in modern scientific anyalysis in physics regarding universe destruction to push your claims for DBS while downplaying or trying to cherry pick them from resonating for Saint Seiya.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

And you have yet to given any actual credible argument of any kind much less evidence to dismiss Okada's direct reference of the inflation of the universe speed and Shura being > plank speeds.



> All the dislikes in the world can't stop you from being an asshole, Fang.



I don't care what you think of me, your getting this attention because your ignorance and hypocrisy are painful.



XImpossibruX said:


> Just wondering, if Zeno destroyed the entirety of Future Trunks timeline, how did Goku go back to it?


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

XImpossibruX said:


> Just wondering, if Zeno destroyed the entirety of Future Trunks timeline, how did Goku go back to it?


Plot Induced Stupidity. Doesn't change the fact that Zen'o was floating in a big void of nothingness and the fact that he had nothing to go back to as stated by Whis, otherwise they would have just went back to another universe within that reality. There's also the reason that Future Zen'o traveled back.

Common sense, why would the person who's job is to watch over their reality, leave it? That's his entire job description as stated by Whis and I think the Dai Shinkai.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

"Miracle" is something they creat when they use thier max cosmo/power 
it`s been achived throughout the series countless times. and shura was fighting at the same level he was when he rekt ronal, against chakravantin. and chak reacted to his attacks and actually was beating shura till he got an amp


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> "Miracle" is something they creat when they use thier max cosmo/power
> it`s been achived throughout the series countless times. and shura was fighting at the same level he was when he rekt ronal, against chakravantin. and chak reacted to his attacks and actually was beating shura till he got an amp


Good for them. Still couldn't do it casually. Would still need God Cloth to replicate the feat casually.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> Wrong.


I'm always wrong to you. It's all good, when your voice means something in the grand scheme I'll tell you. For now, you're not right. Always give props where they are due when you are. Even if I could careless about you or almost anything you say, outside of being right.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Good for them. Still couldn't do it casually. Would still need God Cloth to replicate the feat casually.


Shura was casually reacting to chaks attacks (after an amp) who before was competing with the same shura who exceeded the intial expansion of the universe 

>needs god cloth


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## Nep Heart (Jan 30, 2017)

I don't even read Saint Seiya, but isn't a Miracle based on Buddhism's 7th consciousness, making it more like an ingrained extra perception sensory rather than a special circumstance?


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> Shura was casually reacting to chaks attacks who before was competing with the same shura who exceeded the intial expansion of the universe
> 
> >needs god cloth


He wasn't casually reacting to shit.

Geez I swear we read the wrong series sometimes. Shura was getting his shit kicked in before that instant. Nothing was casual about what he was doing in that fight, which is why he needed to make so many changes in his fighting style in the first place.

Still need God Cloth. Good ol' miracle breaking God Cloths.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Miracle is just a fancy way of saying the Saints have cut loose and using their max power and Cosmo.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> I don't even read Saint Seiya, but isn't a Miracle based on Buddhism's 7th consciousness, making it more like an ingrained extra perception sensory rather than a special circumstance?


That's not how Miracles work here.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> I'm always wrong to you. It's all good, when your voice means something in the grand scheme I'll tell you. For now, you're not right. Always give props where they are due when you are. Even if I could careless about you or almost anything you say, outside of being right.



Let's recap right now:

- You are claiming a mid tier Gold Saint needs his speed feat while done heavily injured can only be surpassed God Cloth wearing other characters despite your argument being contradicted in the manga itself
- You ignore the fact that I brought up the example of Saga blitzing Shura without wearing his Gold Cloth
- You don't know what the term miracle means in Saint Seiya vernacular
- You probably completely are ignorant of the fact people on Shura's level and below him have crossed universes in seconds when fighting the Titans in their universes
- You lied about Shaka's condition with his sight
- You lied about Zeno's feat destroying the 6 universes in the future to conflate as it being all of it from Future Trunk's timeline

So wrong.



Gomu said:


> That's not how Miracles work here.



Still wrong. Its very clear you don't read Saint Seiya.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> I don't even read Saint Seiya, but isn't a Miracle based on Buddhism's 7th consciousness, making it more like an ingrained extra perception sensory rather than a special circumstance?



It is. Even before attaining the 7th Sense properly, a rookie Gold Saint, Leo Aiolia was already breaking past faster then light speeds and when he fully mastered it he was able to reverse being reality warped by Pontos. Don't even know what this clown is claiming about God Cloths repeatedly over and over again because common sense shows he has a history in this thread of lying and fact Shura has nothing to do with a GOD cloth or even wearing one when performing said feat makes his credibility even more questionable.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> He wasn't casually reacting to shit.
> 
> Geez I swear we read the wrong series sometimes. Shura was getting his shit kicked in before that instant. Nothing was casual about what he was doing in that fight, which is why he needed to make so many changes in his fighting style in the first place.
> 
> Still need God Cloth. Good ol' miracle breaking God Cloths.


 


>can`t react to Shura`s attacks who before was fighting shura on equel ground against the same shura who exceeded the intial expansion of the universe
>Casually dodges chak`s an all out attack
>Says he can`t hit shura anymore 
>Wasn`t casuall 
>needs god cloth


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> Let's recap right now:
> 
> - You are claiming a mid tier Gold Saint needs his speed feat while done heavily injured can only be surpassed God Cloths
> - You ignore the fact that I brought up the example of Saga blitzing Shura without wearing his Gold Cloth
> ...


Let's recap:
- Drama in Shonen isn't new, he can be beaten and bloodied to a fucking pulp and it still doesn't matter.
- Shura is counted as slower than Saga already, Saga must have been performing his own miracle.
- Don't care.
- Crossing the universe in seconds =/= initial expansion of the big bang, never said that Zen'O was faster than Golds.
- Shaka stated his condition of not using his sight was to increase the potency of his Cosmos.
- You still don't read DBS.

So wrong.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> >can`t react to Shura`s attacks who before was fighting shura on equel ground against the same shura who exceeded the intial expansion of the universe
> >Casually dodges chak`s an all out attack
> >Says he can`t hit shura anymore
> >Wasn`t casuall
> >needs god cloth


Empowered by the Underworld Shura is not base Shura. Invalid argument.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Nep Heart (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> It is. Even before attaining the 7th Sense properly, a rookie Gold Saint, Leo Aiolia was already breaking past faster then light speeds and when he fully mastered it he was able to reverse being reality warped by Pontos. Don't even know what this clown is claiming about God Cloths repeatedly over and over again because common sense shows he has a history in this thread of lying and fact Shura has nothing to do with a GOD cloth or even wearing one when performing said feat makes his credibility even more questionable.



 Okay, so I guessed right. It sorta sounds like it has a basis on enlightenment where one transcends into a higher self. I think I have a good idea of what Saint Seiya's Miracles are theb since I like to experiment with a similar concept in my own worldbuilding.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Empowered by the Underworld Shura is not base Shura. Invalid argument.


you mean the same shura who was getting rekt by Aiolos despite not wearing his sagittarious cloth


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

SF latif said:


> you mean the same shura who was getting rekt by Aiolos despite not wearing his sagittarious cloth


You mean the same Aiolos who was empowered by a different God?

Or do you mean the Shura who was empowered by the underworld.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2017)

Ampchu said:


> Okay, so I guessed right. It sorta sounds like it has a basis on enlightenment where one transcends into a higher self. I think I have a good idea of what Saint Seiya's Miracles are theb since I like to experiment with a similar concept in my own worldbuilding.


Don't tell Cain, he might confuse it for reality 

I mean The Doctor is a scientist after all and it's totally possible to do what a God of Freaking Time did to another Goddess.

If Doctor Who is real, I'm a Cowboy from Hell. I mean I was born in Texas after all

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

I have actual shit to do with my day, I might be back later, or not. I dunno.

But you can neg me, have field days with trying to wank this everloving shit out of Saint Seiya.

Oh and @Fang

You still don't read DBS.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Let's recap:
> - Drama in Shonen isn't new, he can be beaten and bloodied to a fucking pulp and it still doesn't matter.



Neat non sequitur and non-argument.



> - Shura is counted as slower than Saga already, Saga must have been performing his own miracle.



Occham's Razor simply dictates that Saga is simply much faster then Shura. And still not how a miracle works in Saint Seiya, try again. But either way you are tactly conceding your original argument now is wrong by proposing this.

Neat.



> - Don't care.



Further proof why you are proving to being a laughing stock in this thread and why even the big man, GM, when it comes to calcing and quantifying DBS feats isn't backing your claims.



> - Crossing the universe in seconds =/= initial expansion of the big bang



This would be fine if both weren't mutually inclusive. Also still waiting for evidence or an argument that debunks or counters Okada's direct omniscient narration.



> - Shaka stated his condition of not using his sight was to increase the potency of his Cosmos.



Not your original claim, chuckles. You claimed him not using his sense of sight makes him special on top of lying that only Shaka was only able to harm actual Gods in Saint Seiya. You again are caught red handed lying.



> - You still don't read DBS.



That's right, I watch it.



> So wrong.



Nope.



> I have actual shit to do with my day, I might be back later, or not. I dunno.
> 
> But you can neg me, have field days with trying to wank this everloving shit out of Saint Seiya.
> 
> ...



Nah but let's surmise your entire time in this thread: you throw a hissy fit, try to down play Saint Seiya, make a much of baiting remarks about how your going to debunk "SS" treating the entire OBD wanking it, and use hypocritical double standards to push DBS feats while ignoring and wanting to remove SS ones and showing everyone you have no idea what you are talking about while being incapable of debating your nonsensical claims.

Have fun.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> You mean the same Aiolos who was empowered by a different God?
> 
> Or do you mean the Shura who was empowered by the underworld.


holy shit dude. what manga are you reading? 

>Aiolos being empowered by a diffrent god


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## Nep Heart (Jan 30, 2017)

I really should read Saint Seiya when I get a new PC tho, some of those in-setting concepts do appeal to me seeing as I like mythology and ontology on pursuit of higher self.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Fang (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Empowered by the Underworld Shura is not base Shura. Invalid argument.



>empowered by the Underworld

Thanks for proving you don't read Saint Seiya again.


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## SF latif (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> >empowered by the Underworld
> 
> Thanks for proving you don't read Saint Seiya again.


he reads his own headcanon saint seiya

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> You obviously don't pay attention to DBS, because if you did you would have known that the Future Omni-King destroyed every universe in Trunks' future effortlessly and in an instant.
> 
> Except it does. The big bang was a big ball of matter, stardust, or whatever the fuck Saint Seiya wants to call it, expanding at below the speed of light, why? Einstein's theory of relativity states that: "Anything with a mass can't exceed the speed of light", thus why the universe is stated to be still expanding even to this day.
> 
> All the dislikes in the world can't stop you from being an asshole, Fang.


Just a note.While einstein stated that the initial expansion of the universe was just space itself which has no mass.


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Fang said:


> Let's recap right now:
> 
> - You are claiming a mid tier Gold Saint needs his speed feat while done heavily injured can only be surpassed God Cloth wearing other characters despite your argument being contradicted in the manga itself
> - You ignore the fact that I brought up the example of Saga blitzing Shura without wearing his Gold Cloth
> ...


Actually i think you forgot.Zeno has destroyed 6 universes in the past.In trunks timeline he destroyed all 12.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Toaa said:


> Actually i think you forgot.Zeno has destroyed 6 universes in the past.In trunks timeline he destroyed all 12.


I didn't forget nothing if that's at me. I've had whole debates on it where people didn't have the common sense to understand what the hell happened. Seems to be the problem in this debate too. My shit got cancelled due to a power outage so I'm here with you guys again.

Isn't that awesome?!


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## Toaa (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> I didn't forget nothing if that's at me. I've had whole debates on it where people didn't have the common sense to understand what the hell happened. Seems to be the problem in this debate too. My shit got cancelled due to a power outage so I'm here with you guys again.
> 
> Isn't that awesome?!


No actually that was going for fang if i understood his post.Im just watching from the sidelines.Too tired to have a proper conversation.Studying is a bitch.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Toaa said:


> No actually that was going for fang if i


Ah, sorry then. Wanted to make sure.

Shows why I know he doesn't read DBS.


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## Gomu (Jan 30, 2017)

Oh excuse me. I just read back on the situation with the Chakravartin/Trivikramasena battle and forgot that after that he was outside of his Gold Surplice (which is empowered by Hades and the Underworld, but whatever), but still I was wrong, he did perform that feat outside of his Surplice. Though that does not really matter, as once again, this was also a "miracle" because as Tri stated: "He got his power from the underworld", paraphrase of course. But you are right, he was still outside of his Gold Surplice cloth, I concede to said point.

Does not change anything.



I know you're going to miss he was still empowered by the underworld when performing it, which is why he called it a different name than just Excalibur, but it's cool.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jackk (Jan 30, 2017)

Gomu said:


> Uh... You sure about that? Because Saint Seiya hasn't been very uh... "Scientific" up to this point in anything at all.



Saint Seiya hasn't been very scientific up to this point in anything at all?

It has been even since chapter 1 lol

like the the mention of the big bang, the stars, and the atoms etc


*Spoiler*: __ 









Also, the mangaka has even presented calcs through his characters for stuff like speed

for example, in chapter 3-



Stuff like sonic booms are mentioned later, then light speed...

and faster than light reactions/speed has been mentioned and shown multiple times in the manga

even before the bronze Saints flew across billions of galaxies etc

Reactions: Like 12 | Disagree 1


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## Gomu (Jan 31, 2017)

Jackk said:


> Saint Seiya hasn't been very scientific up to this point in anything at all?
> 
> It has been even since chapter 1 lol
> 
> ...


That's not what I mean by scientific, but OK. Be a smart-ass.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 5


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Jan 31, 2017)

oh god this guy is back

before you guys bang your head against the wall known as gomu, know what you're dealing with


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## Amae (Jan 31, 2017)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> oh god this guy is back
> 
> before you guys bang your head against the wall known as gomu, know what you're dealing with


Oh shit, a blast from the past, I did not expect to see old posts of mine.


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