# Strange Journey Protagonist vs Sonicverse (Fleetway/Archie)



## Fang (Dec 10, 2011)

How does this go?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

should have used bugaboo


----------



## Blade (Dec 10, 2011)

Inb4 master mongloid crushing multiverses.

On topic, Tadano stomps. Mem Aleph > sonic verse.


----------



## Nihilistic (Dec 10, 2011)

Who stirred up the wasp nest that is the local furrdom into shameful action? Things need to be put in order.

Sonic gets a punch to the face.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)

SMT wins easily.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Dec 10, 2011)

The guy shoots them all.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Well I really dont know much about SJP what are their better feats? Are they high multiversal or higher?


----------



## Blade (Dec 10, 2011)

His feats are beating a multiversal level+ being.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Blade said:


> His feats are beating a multiversal level+ being.



How much? Titan Tails created agan all the universes Master Mogul crushes in 1 second.

Is the multiversal+ being that defeated superior to that?


----------



## Blade (Dec 10, 2011)

Master mongloid can't do jackshit. Stop with this annoying wank.

They get stomped. End of story.


----------



## Es (Dec 10, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> How much? Titan Tails created agan all the universes Master Mogul crushes in 1 second.
> 
> Is the multiversal+ being that defeated superior to that?



Oh not this shit again, don't the zones vary in size and whatnot


----------



## Fang (Dec 10, 2011)

Zones = ambiguous sized unquantifiable dimensions.

What multiverse again?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

And you're still using this fallacy that I debunked yesterday.

Cute.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Fang said:


> Zones = ambiguous sized unquantifiable dimensions.
> 
> What multiverse again?



Except the panel said millions of multiverse zones and it was shown in panel crushing a cosmis object, so yes its a feat like it or not.

So now we are asking exact specification of the size of an universe? Becuase the panel was way clear.



zenieth said:


> And you're still using this fallacy that I debunked yesterday.
> 
> Cute.



You didnt debunked anything I provided panels which clarly state the word multiverse in bold by the comic and it shows a hand crushing a cosmic object, the author's intent couldnt be more clear.

Then showed you feats of alternate versions of characters existing, then Sonic Cop explicitilly saying zones are parallel universes and then a panel where it say the different tails came from different multiverses.

You just kept saying basically "nah its not enough I want the exact size of those unvierses or multiverses" when the evidence is clear.

Fine so now we are demanding size evidence for an universe even if explicitilly stated?

This is ridiculous.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Es said:


> Oh not this shit again, don't the zones vary in size and whatnot



Yes they do, excpet that in the panel it cleary said "MULTIVERSE ZONES" MM crushed millions of them.

If he crushed lesser zones it doesnt matter, we have on panel a clear statement with pictures and all that he crushed multiverse or universe zones and those were in the millions counts.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

The cute thing is that you think multiverse = multiple universes(as in our universe) as a standard definition.

but that's wrong.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)

The multiverse (or meta-universe, metaverse) is the hypothetical set of multiple possible universes (including the historical universe we consistently experience) that together comprise everything that exists and can exist: the entirety of space, time, matter, and energy as well as the physical laws and constants that describe them. The term was coined in 1895 by the American philosopher and psychologist William James.[1] The various universes within the multiverse are sometimes called parallel universes.

The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it and the relationship between the various constituent universes, depend on the specific multiverse hypothesis considered. Multiverses have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, religion, philosophy, transpersonal psychology and fiction, particularly in science fiction and fantasy. In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternative universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternative realities", "alternative timelines", and "dimensional planes," among others.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> The cute thing is that you think multiverse = multiple universes(as in our universe) as a standard definition.
> 
> but that's wrong.



They are, if I bring you the scan of Zonic Cop saying the zones are parallel universes, will you concede?

Because then seriously I cant understand you, what do you fucking want then?

Take the panel



Please tell me other way to interpret it different than what it fucking says, it is clearly stated there but you just go "yeah they say that but they dont mean what they say?" well then what the fuck does it mean?

Another clear example



They mean what they say, what other way can it be? Seriously. You just keep denying.


----------



## Light (Dec 10, 2011)

Well, in the real world the size of planets also vary. And a galaxy is a collection of planets, and a universe is a collection of galaxies. So the size of zones varying is like the size of planets varying. If they said he destroyed multiple multiverse zones, then he destroyed galaxies of universes of zones. As long as the zones in archie don't fall below planet size.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 10, 2011)

I don't really care but using sonic video game canon(the small size of zones there) to downplay another canon isn't exactly the best argument.

Fleetway and Archie canon have next to no similarities to the game canon besides the few characters that they do introduce but ultimately change to fit that fictions canon.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Drayden said:


> Well, in the real world the size of planets also vary. And a galaxy is a collection of planets, and a universe is a collection of galaxies. So the size of zones varying is like the size of planets varying. If they said he destroyed multiple multiverse zones, then he destroyed galaxies of universes of zones. As long as the zones in archie don't fall below planet size.



Except each galaxy doesnt contain a parallel reality as oppossed to universes and multiverses which do


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)




----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> I don't really care but using sonic video game canon(the small size of zones there) to downplay another canon isn't exactly the best argument.
> 
> Fleetway and Archie canon have next to no similarities to the game canon besides the few characters that they do introduce but ultimately change to fit that fictions canon.



Basically this.

Seriously this



and this



and this



Should be enough to end the argument, this clearly show zones are their own parallel universes and multiverses as shown in panel 2 and 3.

If people cant accept that as proof then I really dont know what they expect. This seems more like along the lines of "I hate this 5 yrs old quality comic and I am going to downplay it to hell".


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> I don't really care but using sonic video game canon(the small size of zones there) to downplay another canon isn't exactly the best argument.
> 
> Fleetway and Archie canon have next to no similarities to the game canon besides the few characters that they do introduce but ultimately change to fit that fictions canon.



Then you have no basis from which to state where zones start or end.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

And a parallel reality =/= a separate universe.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> And a parallel reality =/= a separate universe.



So now parallel realities aren't from alternate universes? So what you're saying is that characters made from comics like Marvel, DC, and any science fiction that depicts a parallel self/person isn't actually from a parallel universe? Where are they from then... So they aren't from a world? Someone sounds in denial here... don't know about you guys but... I'm getting a vibe that someones really not a fan of being wrong if they don't like a verse... Isn't that called wanking my dear sir?


----------



## Es (Dec 10, 2011)

I thought y'all were the ones doing all the wanking?


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> And a parallel reality =/= a separate universe.



If each have their own stars, timeline, etc then yes.

If there is a parallel unvierse in which I live in another country but has the same characteristics as this bar that detail I dont see how it isnt a parallel universe.

Again, then what do you want? Because every panel that show clear proof you just go "nu uh" then what the fuck do you want, seriously?

What do you want?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

You do know there are parallel timelines within alternate universes right?

I want a clearly defined something.

Some Archie definition of zones.

Some archie definition of Multiverse

Some archie definition that means a definable damn.

Throwing about zones and alternate selves and multiverse isn't going to cut it because the context isn't something clear to begin with.


----------



## Matta Clatta (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Then you have no basis from which to state where zones start or end.



Not really didn't Orochibuto post a scan yesterday of an alternate zone where The alt sonic and sonic circling that alt mobius? 

That seems like enough proof to conclude that they encompass more then small pieces of land.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)

A parallel universe or alternative reality is a hypothetical self-contained separate reality coexisting with one's own. A specific group of parallel universes is called a "multiverse", although this term can also be used to describe the possible parallel universes that constitute reality. While the terms "parallel universe" and "alternative reality" are generally synonymous and can be used interchangeably in most cases, there is sometimes an additional connotation implied with the term "alternative reality" that implies that the reality is a variant of our own. The term "parallel universe" is more general, without any connotations implying a relationship, or lack of relationship, with our own universe. A universe where the very laws of nature are different – for example, one in which there are no relativistic limitations and the speed of light can be exceeded – would in general count as a parallel universe but not an alternative reality. The correct quantum mechanical definition of parallel universes is "universes that are separated from each other by a single quantum event."



I didn't wank anything. At first I though the Sonicverse lost, then I figured something out on that. It's not because they lost with power but because people don't want them to win if the margins slim. So I'm fighting for the Sonicverse to at least be said to be multiple parallel universes meaning a multiverse.

Make sure to read well. I know you got that lens flare in your eyes.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh good.

OBD conspiracy, take thirty two.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

Gomu said:


> A parallel universe or alternative reality is a hypothetical self-contained separate reality coexisting with one's own. A specific group of parallel universes is called a "multiverse", although this term can also be used to describe the possible parallel universes that constitute reality. While the terms "parallel universe" and "alternative reality" are generally synonymous and can be used interchangeably in most cases, there is sometimes an additional connotation implied with the term "alternative reality" that implies that the reality is a variant of our own. The term "parallel universe" is more general, without any connotations implying a relationship, or lack of relationship, with our own universe. A universe where the very laws of nature are different ? for example, one in which there are no relativistic limitations and the speed of light can be exceeded ? would in general count as a parallel universe but not an alternative reality. The correct quantum mechanical definition of parallel universes is "universes that are separated from each other by a single quantum event."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you know, you should really read what you quote. 

specificially

*"parallel universe" is more general, without any connotations implying a relationship, or lack of relationship, with our own universe. A universe where the very laws of nature are different ? for example, one in which there are no relativistic limitations and the speed of light can be exceeded ? would in general count as a parallel universe but not an alternative reality.*

and this

*although this term can also be used to describe the possible parallel universes that constitute reality*

and

*While the terms "parallel universe" and "alternative reality" are generally synonymous and can be used interchangeably in most cases, there is sometimes an additional connotation implied with the term "alternative reality" that implies that the reality is a variant of our own.*


----------



## Ulti (Dec 10, 2011)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> Oh good.
> 
> OBD conspiracy, take thirty two.



It's funny, because he's pulling a Thor.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> you know, you should really read what you quote.
> 
> specificially
> 
> ...



I already read it. I would not post something if I didn't already read it. The multiverses that have been shown have all the qualifications to being just that. Multiverses. All you're saying that alternate realities don't substitute for alternate universes. You haven't shown proof of why not. Especially since Zonic has also displayed that those Sonics on screen have been shown to all have been alternate versions of Sonic's self including Scourge himself who is also living on an alternate planet, an alternate world and its own circumstances.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> Oh good.
> 
> OBD conspiracy, take thirty two.



Who said it's a conspiracy. Even Matta has said that it's bullshit to use one universe of a similar canon to judge another verse that has a completely different set of rules and trials. What you guys are saying is that multiple zones don't mean multiple universes. They can mean alternate times. But Zonic also implied that those universes were all present day and not Years ahead or behind. Those were all alternate universes, realities that coexist with Mobius Prime, *JUST LIKE* DC and Marvel universes that live in Alternate Universes from Prime Earth.

So if you say that Zenieth you're also saying that those comics universes aren't parallel universes.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

The thing you quoted basically spelt my entire point out. These alternate "universes" or realities do not necessarily constitute a universe apart from our own. They can, but it's not a certainty.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 10, 2011)

The ones that aren't fur ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) are sure to be the winners.

In fact I'm absolutely positive--I'd stake Hadomaru life on it.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

That's the entire problem with Alternate reality and Multiverse. It's not objectively stable in size. There's no minimum or maximum end where you can say "Well this is what makes up a Multiverse."

Zones just convolute the whole thing even more. If they didn't use such terminology or explained it clearly I'd say, sure do what ever. But they don't

That's not even considering that even if we were to take the whole "Multiverse = multiple universes of the same standard as our own." Orochibuto misconstrued the scan itself as Mongul destroying them all at once. When the scan says that he has the ability to destroy them and has destroyed a vast number, with no direct correlation to how many at a time. And in fact the way it's worded points to it being one at a time.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 10, 2011)

I could go on, but everytime I picture titan tails I just laugh my ass off.


----------



## Ulti (Dec 10, 2011)

zenieth said:


> I could go on, but everytime I picture titan tails I just laugh my ass off.



I wouldn't worry, Dante damned his ass to Class 3A


----------



## Fang (Dec 10, 2011)

Yuri Hyuga said:


> The ones that aren't fur ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) are sure to be the winners.
> 
> In fact I'm absolutely positive--I'd stake Hadomaru life on it.



Just for reinforcement: Here's the multiverse in question in Strange Journey:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VrrcrnnSQU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

10:00+



			
				Zelenin said:
			
		

> I will now explain what observed data we have on the Schwartzwelt inner structure. The Schwartzwelt is a natural phenomenon that arose in the South Pole months ago. But this phenomenon is one of a kind. We have nothing of its like to compare it to. You may have heard false reports that its a giant blizzard, but in truth...It is an unknown spatial anomaly that destroys and absorbs its surroundings as it enlarges.
> 
> When it first appeared, it was a cylinder only one meter long and stretched to the sky. Since then it has spread radially, swallowing surrounding observation bases and any investigator whole. Today it occupies a sizable footprint with a radius of several hundred kilometers. As we speak, the Schwartzwelt continues to expand...If we cannot engineer a reversal of the process, then it will inevitably swallow the Earth.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FGfhtcmjs4&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

16:50+



			
				Arthur said:
			
		

> I have important data to report. The data transfer from Verne, the Blue Jet's command unit, is complete. The data contains a vital clue to escaping from Antila. The Blue Jet appears to have managed to enter the Schwartzwelt without Verne powering down. As a result, they succeeded in tracking their course here. Please look at this.
> 
> There is an area at the zenith of this sector that is emitting an unknown signal. It appears to be affected by the moon, making it easy to overlook the gravitational field...But according to my calculations, a quantum tunnel has formed at these coordinates. It seems to be a path leading outside local space-time.The Blue Jet's escape attempt was unsuccessful They were unable to penetrate the quantum field blocking entrance to the tunnel.  In the current condition of the tunnel, we cannot leave this sector.
> 
> ...



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UlZDOieUVY&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

1:30+



			
				Arthur said:
			
		

> I have verified your victory over Mem Aleph. We have detected fluctuations in the Schwartzwelt's gravitational field. They are believed to be the result of Mem Aleph's defeat. It is possible that the Schwartzwelt could collapse unexpectedly. We must accelerate our timetable.



Can't find the rest but basically the Schwartzwelt "dimension" intersects with the normal universe in SMT and is composed of multiple layers of more universes created by Mem Aleph.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 10, 2011)

> Can't find the rest but basically the Schwartzwelt "dimension" intersects with the normal universe in SMT and is composed of multiple layers of more universes created by Mem Aleph.



And the power of the suit not only allows the MC to beat those like Mem Aleph and Demiurge, but it's built up energy is enough to genuinely shutdown the Schwartzwelt.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 11, 2011)

zenieth said:


> That's the entire problem with Alternate reality and Multiverse. It's not objectively stable in size. There's no minimum or maximum end where you can say "Well this is what makes up a Multiverse."
> 
> Zones just convolute the whole thing even more. If they didn't use such terminology or explained it clearly I'd say, sure do what ever. But they don't
> 
> That's not even considering that even if we were to take the whole "Multiverse = multiple universes of the same standard as our own." Orochibuto misconstrued the scan itself as Mongul destroying them all at once. When the scan says that he has the ability to destroy them and has destroyed a vast number, with no direct correlation to how many at a time. And in fact the way it's worded points to it being one at a time.



I never said MM crushed the millions of multiverse zones at the same time, the only guy that has say feat (in fact greater) is Titan Tails.

But MM did, his feat in a single day still. If you want to downplay it to the minumum extent, still it is clear that what MM is crushing is at the very least an universe if you dont want to use multiverse despite being clearly stated.

The world "multiverse" has been used consistently EACH time it has been used in the comic has been bolded.

In the last part of the video I already posted, it even say something like Titan Tails now owns the cosmos or something.

The point is, I understand if want to interpret the "multiverse zones" as single universes (zones) of the multiverse instead of entire multiverses being crushed.

But come on dude, there are people here trying to say that MM is a multi galaxy buster at best and Titan Tails feat is universal at best. This is really laughable and totally contradicts the entire Archie story.

There is a cosmis interstate, the place to cross between universes.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 11, 2011)

Ok, guys here is the feat, with clearly starting on a planet, then encompassing an entire universe and everything. If after this you keep "nu uh, he cant" then sorry I cant help you anymore.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl11F-nvYfo[/YOUTUBE]

Start watching at 05:42

The hand CLEARLY as stated panel, by panel in the video first is the size of a planet, then grows to the size of a galaxy and then finally to the size the universal size and crushes it. YES, the zone had a planet, sky, stars, everything on it.

And, I was wrong guys, guess what?

The millions of zones and much more was done within MINUTES. Yes MINUTES as seen on this video and panels.

So, if this doesnt convince you then I cant help you anymore this would be more along the lines of "fuck it, I hate this ridiculous verse" than an actual skepticism. Because so far insane pieces of evidence has been presented and you just say "nu uh", well here is your evidence, if after this you arent convinced sorry, I cant help you.

EDIT:

Here you have Sonic and Knuckles destroying an universe or zone as an effect of their fight:



Yeah, but again, zones doesnt have stars, planets and shit right?



And in the reverse *universe* (yes a zone)



Knuckles unable to control his powers, reality warped a zone:





Indeed as Chaos, there is nothing he cant do:


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

Guess how many of those giant ass scans tha tyou posted, without spoilers I might add, cause that's fun as hell.

Has context that explains this?

The answer you're looking for is zero.

And yeah, that's the exact one that I saw debunked ages ago.

AND 


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THAT VIDEO

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

you just went and proved a zone is galaxian in size rather than universal.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

And reading further into this.

You completely took that scan out of context.



I should fucking neg you for this bullshit.


----------



## Es (Dec 11, 2011)

So he shot his own argument in the foot? Does this mean the wank is gonna end now?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

*Spoiler*: __ 















Love it when they fuck themselves over for me, I don't have to do the work then.


----------



## Weather (Dec 11, 2011)

So... he only smashed a Galaxy?

That's taking something waaay too far then.


----------



## King Hopper (Dec 11, 2011)

What exactly are they doing to Tadano when Aleph damn near shattered a multiverse simply by breathing?


----------



## Es (Dec 11, 2011)

Weather said:


> So... he only smashed a Galaxy?
> 
> That's taking something waaay too far then.



I'm pretty sure any Marvel Elder God would scoff at this


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 11, 2011)

So it was a galaxy like knew from the beginning?

Yep, this wank can finally come to an end.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

Keo dat Aya :33


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 11, 2011)

Why does everyone think that's Aya?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

Because Aya is legit


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 11, 2011)

And I can't believe I just watched someone systematically nuke their own argument. :rofl



> Because Aya is legit



Even though it's Heather from Silent Hill 3. 



> What exactly are they doing to Tadano when Aleph damn near shattered a multiverse simply by breathing?



Mem Aleph. Just saying regular Aleph would mean someone else. Although to clarify, she didn't almost shatter. She shook it. Still damn impressive though.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 11, 2011)

That's true 

But no, that's not Aya.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

I figured it was the SH3 protag after Aya was shotdown.

They both f5 material though.


----------



## Keollyn (Dec 11, 2011)

Ah F5, how I missed it so.


----------



## Big Bοss (Dec 11, 2011)

F5 material, the best material.


----------



## Calamity (Dec 11, 2011)

So the "mutliverse-zone" in question was actually a galaxy?


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 11, 2011)

The hand went planet - sun - galaxy and THEN a zone.

It never said it stopped at Galaxy, seriously it was pretty clear I even posted a scan

"In the reverse *universe*"

It outright says UNIVERSE.

Seriously, I mean I understand if you dont want to believe MM did multiverses, but saying that no one in Archieverse isnt even universe level?

Thats some serious downplaying. How did you debunked Sonic and Knuckes nuking an universe? It clearly says there they tore apart reality itself.

So according to you zones are galaxies now? So guess in each galaxy there is a parallel reality right? Wait no, galaxies doesnt have parallel realities.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

Very essence of the galaxy



and with one mighty hand crushes the very fabric of the zone.


It doesn't get clearer than that. And maybe it does in Sonic continuity.

I'm not the one writing it bro.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 11, 2011)

So according to you the multiverse is a bunch of galaxies?

It shows progression, planet, sun, galaxy and then reach zone crushing it.

So why then use multiverse COUNTLESS times, why EVERYTIME they refer to Archie totallity they say multi-verse?

It isnt a single universe at all. Unless you are telling me that each galaxy has an alternate reality.


----------



## Nevermind (Dec 11, 2011)

All it proves is that Archie's shit is incredibly inconsistent and undefined.

Shut it. You have been proven wrong time and time again you nuked your own argument on the previous page.

Take your wank somewhere else.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah, orochibuto. You're lacking reading comprehension


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 11, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> All it proves is that Archie's shit is incredibly inconsistent and undefined.
> 
> Shut it. You have been proven wrong time and time again you nuked your own argument on the previous page.
> 
> Take your wank somewhere else.



How have I been proven wrong?

It went like this over and over again:

"Master Mogul isnt multiversal"

* Post panel where it say the millions of multiverse shit

"Nuh uh, becuase a multiverse isnt a multiverse"

* Post panel of countless realities, countless sonics living in parallel realities

"Nu uh, because we dont know how big they are"

* Post panel showing zones have planets, stars, etc

"Nu uh, its not enough"

* Post at least (not joking) 10 panels in total where it says MULTIVERSE over and over again, in at least 3 of them the author bolds the word multiverse, I guess why?

"Nuh uh, its not enough"

* Post a panel clearly refering a zone as an universe (Reveres universe, yes the word universe is clearly put there, not even by characters but by the AUTHOR)

"Nuh, uh its not enough".

The fact that the word multiverse is used over and over again, should be enough to prove IT IS a multiverse. Yet basically the entirety of the negation argument is "They dont mean what they say, a multiverse may not be a multiverse".

The fuck?

Seriously I doubt very much so much proof has been provided for other fictions, the word multiverse or universe once would be enough. Yet in Archie you have the word multiverse and universe written over and over and over and over again to hell and back. Yet just because you dont have a panel that shows you the exact dimensions of the multiverse, refuse to acknowledge it.

Let me tell you something, if I provide you a panel where it CLEARLY states "zones are universes", will you accept it?

Or will you go "No uh, universes are not universes "?

EDIT:

Fuck, even in the OBD wiki it appears as such 

Link removed


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

You posted a video, which showed the entire scan. In which you misconstrued zones for millions of multiversal zones.

When in actual context it's saying millions of zones* OF THE MULTIVERSE*

the video you posted literally spelled out that the zone stopped at Galaxy, and since it's later canon it overrides preceeding. You took it growing from a planet to galaxy to mean that it grew continuously

when that's not what the scan said. It said it grew to the size of a galaxy and then went for the very essence of it.

And crushed the zone. That is clear as day.

edit: I even posted the relevant scans, that I took from the video, in order I might add, to add an actual factual representation instead of just taking shit out of context.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 11, 2011)

Is this shit _*still*_ going?


----------



## zenieth (Dec 11, 2011)

zenieth said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But since you seem to have no, and I mean NONE, form of reading comprehension. I'll explain it for you. Like i seem to have to do for a number of series you misinterpret.

(Yes folks this isn't orochibuto's first time fucking up in actually reading what's being said.)

Scan 1. This is simple, you got this one right, have a cookie. A hand blots out the sun.

Scan 2. The hand grows beyond the planet aka it gets bigger and "*REACHES FOR THE ESSENCE OF THE GALAXY ITSELF"* benefit of the doubt I'll say it's grown to the size of a galaxy and 

Scan 3. *Crushes the zone* no implication of growing larger, no word saying the zone is universal in size, hell the only connection is made is to a *GALAXY*

scan 4. Zonic explaining his job, watching all the sonics on all the mobiuses (Planet by the way) of the multiverse, not *MULTIVERSES* but rather *MULTIVERSE*

Scan 5. Someone with the ability to crush A (Definition of a singular unit or group "A man, A hundred, a dog.") zone He has crushed millions of Multiverse(No this isn't a descriptive of the zones, it's the possesor, he's basically saying they belong to the multiverse.) zones

Okay? good.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 11, 2011)

zenieth said:


> But since you seem to have no, and I mean NONE, form of reading comprehension. I'll explain it for you. Like i seem to have to do for a number of series you misinterpret.
> 
> (Yes folks this isn't orochibuto's first time fucking up in actually reading what's being said.)
> 
> ...



The short answer for those with dyslexia. The millions is just his *kill count*.  NOT the *amount at once.*


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 12, 2011)

zenieth said:


> You posted a video, which showed the entire scan. In which you misconstrued zones for millions of multiversal zones.
> *
> When in actual context it's saying millions of zones OF THE MULTIVERSE*
> 
> ...



And in this I totally agree, I am not saying the zones are multiverses could be but I am not saying that. But universes at the very least yes.

They are zones (universes) of the multiverses, if they were galaxies they wouldnt refer to multiverse OVER and OVER again and bolding the multiverse word.

Master Mogul became the ruler of the multiverse at the end, if they were galaxies it would be of the universe.

Again I am asking you, if I give you a scan where it say "zones are universes" will you concede that indeed they are universal forming part of the multiverse?


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 12, 2011)

Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> The short answer for those with dyslexia. The millions is just his *kill count*.  NOT the *amount at once.*



And I agree with this, he didnt do it at once, but he did it in minutes.


----------



## zenieth (Dec 12, 2011)

You keep going on the faulty pretense that multiverse = multiple universes.

that is not the standard definition, at least not in the definitive term.

We broke this down.

edit: fuck this, I'll deal with any more shit in the morning. I'm going to fucking Anor Londo.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 12, 2011)

zenieth said:


> You keep going on the faulty pretense that multiverse = multiple universes.
> 
> that is not the standard definition, at least not in the definitive term.
> 
> ...



Except that individual universes has been already set. One of many zones, the reverse zone was called explicitilly an UNIVERSE.


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Dec 12, 2011)

Damn this is still going on?


----------



## sonic546 (Dec 12, 2011)

All Orochibuto has proven is that Archie can't write for shit.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 12, 2011)

I dunno can the protagonist tolerate that much fur?


----------



## 8-Peacock-8 (Dec 12, 2011)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I dunno can the protagonist tolerate that much fur?



Yes he can. 

He will be getting fur coats after this.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

Since someone certainly doesn't know what a universe is...

Sonic has had to travel throughout his entire universe after a past arc where he was lost in space. While being lost in space he did not meet the other counterparts of himself he only met other people that were on other planets and he even made himself into "Fleetway Super Sonic" once by mistake and turned into two entities of Sonic and Super Sonic. Sonic traveled millions of light years away from his planet during the aftermath of the Xorda and had to go back. There were no other Sonicverses around him, he was in his own verse during this time. This would mean that just as he has his own space, those verses also have their own spaces.


*Spoiler*: __ 








A galaxy is also smaller than an actual universe. It would not make sense that Sonic could still travel throughout his own universe and not meet others than. What makes this even more annoying is that we keep saying that SMT wins probably. But they don't win due to Mammoth Mogul only crushing a "galaxy", they win because he is crushing multiple universes. Should be easy enough to comprehend, but you guys don't seem to.

You think this because most of the story arcs are because Sonic is going against other universes. But the Interstate is only a place to be able to travel to other zone/universes easily. That's it.

But never mind about it. Because I can see it's too hard for most of you guys to fathom the situation. One thing is for sure though, that it wasn't a "galaxy" it was multiverses. I don't know what info you're looking at Zenny but please. Keep going. I'm getting entertained.


----------



## Dandy Elegance (Dec 12, 2011)

Gomu said:


> Since someone certainly doesn't know what a universe is...
> 
> Sonic has had to travel throughout his entire universe after a past arc where he was lost in space. While being lost in space he did not meet the other counterparts of himself he only met other people that were on other planets and he even made himself into "Fleetway Super Sonic" once by mistake and turned into two entities of Sonic and Super Sonic. Sonic traveled millions of light years away from his planet during the aftermath of the Xorda and had to go back. There were no other Sonicverses around him, he was in his own verse during this time. This would mean that just as he has his own space, those verses also have their own spaces.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fang (Dec 12, 2011)

Galaxy sized zone /=\ universe


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

Fang said:


> Galaxy sized zone /=\ universe



Right then. Again I ask this question. You're saying that a "galaxy" sized zone doesn't equal a verse. Interesting. So I'm asking you if that's a factor for all comic verses that have a multiverse in it? Does that mean that those verses need more proof that they are multiverses. Otherwise what's to say someone else hadn't just destroyed a "galaxy sized verse", after all, Sonic takes from those universes. So how would they be considered multiverses. If you have any proof they are, I mean?


----------



## Nevermind (Dec 12, 2011)

Too bad the scans outright associate the zone with a galaxy and zones were shown to vary in size, and it was the *zone* that was destroyed.

Grasping at straws I see. Apparently most Sonic fans tend to do that.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm not grasping at straws I'm being reasonable. Considering the fact that it seems to be some bias is the fact of considering things.

The factions that although the universes might seemingly look as though they are close together (and that might be the person who created its fault) there have been many flops within Comics similarly in others. DC and Marvel have had their shares of flops yet without a doubt we consider that they have multi-verses and probably omniverses. But what people are saying is this.

That because of an authors flop. That their is less likely a chance that it is an actual multiverse. Many of the Zones have been coined as universes, such as the Sonic Underground Universe, Luna Verse, Moebius and Dark Mobius.

They are all parallel verses.

In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternative universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternative realities", "alternative timelines", and "dimensional planes," among others.

This means that even if the verses are called "dimensions", and though Zones can be used for places like Angel Island (Only when on Angel Island and that was early Sonic Archie). This doesn't mean a thing. You're taking out of context that these aren't clones of them but actual alternate entities. You're saying that it's galaxy sized, but that may just be what every other comic has done. Shown flops and out of context situations. Things like durability, power and strength for various characters have been inconsistent in comics before. So believe me writers aren't perfect.

Since there is a fair amount of bias within this situation (many of you guys have said that you disliked Sonic because it "sucks") that's fine. But not when you're having an actual argument about it. Again, I know SMT wins this, that's plain to see in this situation. However, what I am saying is that you're saying that Sonic Archie isn't an actual multiverse. That's wrong. It houses many alternate universes which can also be called dimensions. It can be coined as Zones, but Zonic himself watches and travels through other Zones. 

Sonic Archie is bigger than what you're making it out to be due to the mere scope of alternate selves. You can't dispute that even if you wanted to... oh wait. You could but you'd be wrong. Because it is and will always be a Multiverse.


----------



## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 12, 2011)

this is stupid​


----------



## Blade (Dec 12, 2011)

Smh.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

Doesn't matter what you say. You're all saying this stuff but you yourselfs aren't showing any proof towards the matter. Orochi and I have shown that it's an entire set of universes, and not just "galaxy" sized. We've done so and yet all you guys are saying is that "oh he flops so it's less of a feat" all it sounds is biased to me.


----------



## Blade (Dec 12, 2011)

Smh.


----------



## sonic546 (Dec 12, 2011)

You finished bitching about the big mean OBD yet?


----------



## Big Bοss (Dec 12, 2011)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLV7CP95DhU&list=SL&feature=sh_e_se[/YOUTUBE]

Best Sonic.


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm not bitching about it. I'm just waiting for the argument. Obviously I am not caring about the fact of me being negged or towards your petty crap about me being a conspiracy theorist. There is bias here, and if you can't see that then you're just another OBDwanker.


----------



## Orochibuto (Dec 12, 2011)

Ok, this has gone out of hand, there is no need to call ANYONE a moron, stupid or resort to insult, if no one in insulting you there is no reason you do, denoting lack of education, please do remember insulting is the lowest form of talking. I am gathering my final piece of evidence where it is clear there is indeed a multiverse, has universes and are universe sized and zones are said universes.

I will post it as soon as I come back from my graphic programming exam, if someone is able to in a solid way refute said final post which I think make it more than clear that zones are at least unvierses, with proof, with solid arguments to why not and not the "shut up" "sonic sucks" or "what it says it doesnt counts because the author doesnt knows what he is talking about, his consistnecy sucks (lol really? the author doesnt knows?)" then I promisse I will concede.

Please just keep both sides civil, and remember there is no reason to resort to insulting, on any ground. Hate the argument, not the poster.

Thanks, I will be back as soon as I can.


----------



## Blade (Dec 12, 2011)

How much weed you are smoking?


----------



## sonic546 (Dec 12, 2011)

Grαhf said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLV7CP95DhU&list=SL&feature=sh_e_se[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Best Sonic.



Thread just got funny.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsV12Ub9mds[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Gomu (Dec 12, 2011)

Blade said:


> How much weed you are smoking?



Great refute Blade. I have to smoke weed because I'm different. Thanks dude.


----------

