# KCM Naruto vs War-arc Sakura



## Hachibi (Oct 30, 2014)

Because there's people (not saying names) saying that Sakura's feat against Kaguya of hurting/blitzing her is legit and that she's either KCM Naruto-level or BM Naruto-level.

Location: Akatsuki's cave
Distance: 80 meters
Knowledge: Full for Sakura. None for Naruto
Mindset: Capture for Naruto, kill for Sakura
Restriction: Fanfiction, wank, one-liner, mods

Yes, i'm rustled.


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2014)

Naruto clone feints her and hits her with Rasenshuriken, which turns off her regeneration and kills her.

Wait, he loses if he has to capture her. Most of his techniques are nukes, and the only ones getting past Byakugo are going to kill her.


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## Hachibi (Oct 30, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Naruto clone feints her and hits her with Rasenshuriken, which turns off her regeneration and kills her.
> 
> Wait, he loses if he has to capture her. Most of his techniques are nukes, and the only ones getting past Byakugo are going to kill her.



Grab her with Chakra Arms.

GG


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## Turrin (Oct 30, 2014)

KCM-Naruto would have a tough time against whatever absurd portion of Katsuya Sakura can summon w/ Byakugo regen enhancing said Katsuya's durability to the point where it can withstand CST scale attacks, which are beyond anything KCM-Naruto is capable of. Byakugo-Massive-Katsuya likely solo's this.

And yeah if Sakura can evade Kaguya attacks and shit KCM-Naruto isn't blitzing her

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2014)

Turrin said:


> KCM-Naruto would have a tough time against whatever absurd portion of Katsuya Sakura can summon w/ Byakugo regen enhancing said Katsuya's durability to the point where it can withstand CST scale attacks, which are beyond anything KCM-Naruto is capable of. Byakugo-Massive-Katsuya likely solo's this.



Naruto can just outlast Katsuyu because he's never really going to run out until Kurama runs out, which isn't going to happen before Sakura and Katsuyu run out. Imo, giving 30,000 people enough chakra to enhance their attacks to a level where they can somewhat fight against the Jubi > Sakura's feats. 

Also, enhancing Katusyu to CST-withstanding levels put Tsunade, with years of stored chakra in that seal, into a coma... so doing that on top of actually summoning 10% (or more) Katsuyu would probably kill Sakura.



> And yeah if Sakura can evade Kaguya attacks and shit KCM-Naruto isn't blitzing her



She didn't really evade Kaguya's attack. That is why Kakashi had to save her. 

Actually, IIRC she had trouble evading flying debris in the war arc, and a fat ass Jubiling nearly got the best of her.


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## Csdabest (Oct 30, 2014)

Well Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than 50% Rikudou Sage Naruto. I can see Sakura dodging FRS. And Im sure one good hit would Put Naruto down but thats not very likely at all.


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Well Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than 50% Rikudou Sage Naruto. I can see Sakura dodging FRS. And Im sure one good hit would Put Naruto down but thats not very likely at all.



IIRC, all that was said is that a clone wouldn't be enough, not that Sakura had more chakra than the clone.


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## Kai (Oct 30, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Well Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than 50% Rikudou Sage Naruto. I can see Sakura dodging FRS. And Im sure one good hit would Put Naruto down but thats not very likely at all.


It was Sakura's Byakugo chakra, along with Naruto clone's, that was enough to enter Kaguya's dimension. Stacking Sakura's chakra with the clone's.


Obito: "Both of you, come with me."


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## Turrin (Oct 30, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Naruto can just outlast Katsuyu because he's never really going to run out until Kurama runs out, which isn't going to happen before Sakura and Katsuyu run out. Imo, giving 30,000 people enough chakra to enhance their attacks to a level where they can somewhat fight against the Jubi > Sakura's feats.


It's not going to be a stamina contest, because Massive-Byakugo-Katsuya would overpower KCM-Naruto



> Also, enhancing Katusyu to CST-withstanding levels put Tsunade, with years of stored chakra in that seal, into a coma... so doing that on top of actually summoning 10% (or more) Katsuyu would probably kill Sakur


Not only does Sakura have way more chakra than Tsunade, but Tsunade did so for an entire village not for 1 person. All Sakura has to worry about here is herself, and Katsuya. She also doesn't need to boost Katsuya nearly as much as none of KCM-Naruto's attacks come even remotely close to CST in destructive out put. 



> She didn't really evade Kaguya's attack. That is why Kakashi had to save her.


She evaded the attack and than Kaguya kept chasing her down to the point where she eventually was caught. Basically her speed was greater than Godruto's flight speed as he needed to clone push him out of the way. Now obviously his flight speed is no where near his foot speed/jumping speed, but it's still insanely fast, and Sakura was better than it. Godruto also considered Kaguya's attack insanely fast himself, which Sakura proceed to evade. Sakura's speed is top-notch now.



> Actually, IIRC she had trouble evading flying debris in the war arc,


And that was before Kishi retecon'd her so it's irrelevant.



> and a fat ass Jubiling nearly got the best of her.


It caught her by surprise. literally anyone can be hit by any attack if they don't see it coming. Minato can be hit by Konohamaru if he doesn't know Konohamaru's about to attack him. So that two is irrelevant.

And it's pretty ridiculous that you want people to ignore more recent feats in favor of old ones anyway. It's like saying KCM/BM Naruto aren't that fast because Naruto tons of chapters ago struggled with X. It's silly. We take the most recent feats, which place Sakura at having insane speed; live with it.



Kai said:


> It was Sakura's Byakugo chakra, along with Naruto clone's, that was enough to enter Kaguya's dimension. Stacking Sakura's chakra with the clone's.
> 
> 
> Obito: "Both of you, come with me."


Obito doubts the chakra of the clone is enough. Than Sakura volunteers and he's says that will be more than enough. Yes at that moment he may have been talking about their combined chakra, but now let's put that in context with everything else. It's Sakura who performed all dimension transfers with Obito, save maybe the first one where she and the bushin used their combined chakra. After which she still had chakra left in her Byakugo seal and before which she expended massive amounts of her Byakugo chakra earlier in the war. Given this it's really obvious that if Sakura's Byakugo chakra was at 100% she could have provided the necessary chakra for all of the dimensional transfers w/o Naruto and probably still had a shit ton left. Yet Obito doubted the clone had enough. That brings us to the only rational conclusion being that Sakura has a-lot more chakra at her best than the Godruto clone.


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It's not going to be a stamina contest, because Massive-Byakugo-Katsuya would overpower KCM-Naruto



Well, considering that a fraction, and I'm taking like 1/30,000, of Naruto's chakra was able to _protect_ cannon fodder from a _nuke_ from a fucking Narutoverse God Tier, I don't see Katsuyu doing shit.



> Not only does Sakura have way more chakra than Tsunade, but Tsunade did so for an entire village not for 1 person. All Sakura has to worry about here is herself, and Katsuya.



First off, Sakura doesn't have way more chakra than Tsunade. Sakura has about a three year storage, and Tsunade had about that in the Pain arc.

Secondly, Tsunade boosted a bunch of miniature slugs that amounted to one boss sized slug. You are claiming that Sakura is going to enhance a slug far bigger than the one that took all of Tsunade's chakra to enhance, which is unsubstantiated. 



> She also doesn't need to boost Katsuya nearly as much as none of KCM-Naruto's attacks come even remotely close to CST in destructive out put.



What? Naruto was able to deal a large sum of chakra to _thousands_ of shinobi and still spam nukes like Rasenshuriken.

If Naruto puts a huge amount of chakra into one Chōōdama Rasenshuriken, like he's done in the past with Bijudama and FRS itslef, and _then_ adds senjutsu to enhance it even further, that attack would likely be stronger than CST.

It would also turn off chakra, meaning regeneration will be meaningless. 



> She evaded the attack and than Kaguya kept chasing her down to the point where she eventually was caught. Basically her speed was greater than Godruto's flight speed as he needed to clone push him out of the way. Now obviously his flight speed is no where near his foot speed/jumping speed, but it's still insanely fast, and Sakura was better than it. Godruto also considered Kaguya's attack insanely fast himself, which Sakura proceed to evade. Sakura's speed is top-notch now.



When Kaguya's arm came at Sakura, she turned and sprinted in the opposite direction and it was closing in on her rapidly regardless of that.

If Naruto had turned and flown in the opposite direction, Sasuke would have died (since he cannot fly) and it would have eventually caught up to him anyway.

I really don't see where Sakura demonstrated greater speed than Naruto's flight speed.



> And that was before Kishi retecon'd her so it's irrelevant.



Retcon?



> It caught her by surprise. literally anyone can be hit by any attack if they don't see it coming. Minato can be hit by Konohamaru if he doesn't know Konohamaru's about to attack him. So that two is irrelevant.



Which is why I said clone feint.

Sakura isn't immune to clone feints. Not even Super Kaguya was.



> And it's pretty ridiculous that you want people to ignore more recent feats in favor of old ones anyway. It's like saying KCM/BM Naruto aren't that fast because Naruto tons of chapters ago struggled with X. It's silly. We take the most recent feats, which place Sakura at having insane speed; live with it.



Naruto went through power ups, mainly ones that involved receiving chakra from the strongest biju in excess or mastering senjutsu, both of which enhance speed.

Sakura did no such thing in between the Jubi fight and Kaguya fight, so I don't see your point.



Turrin said:


> Given this it's really obvious that if Sakura's Byakugo chakra was at 100% she could have provided the necessary chakra for all of the dimensional transfers w/o Naruto and probably still had a shit ton left. Yet Obito doubted the clone had enough.



Please. Obito had no way of knowing how much chakra Naruto or Sakura even had at the time. If Sakura had been the one to volunteer first, Obito would have said the same thing and Naruto would have spoke up. 

I think Obito said that both Sakura and Naruto were "barley enough" anyway, which was wrong, according to you.


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## Source (Oct 30, 2014)

Naruto is going to have a hard time capturing Sakura with Byakugō no Jutsu. 



Csdabest said:


> Well Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than 50% Rikudou Sage Naruto. I can see Sakura dodging FRS. And Im sure *one good hit would Put Naruto down* but thats not very likely at all.



You can't be serious.

Sakura's destructive capabilities are laughable in comparison to a single Bijuu.  A thousand of her punches wouldn't put Naruto down.


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## Csdabest (Oct 30, 2014)

Source said:


> Naruto is going to have a hard time capturing Sakura with Byakugō no Jutsu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Naruto has been effected by damage much less than Sakura is capable of producing. He damn near broke his ankle by shunshin. This is KCM Naruto were talking about as well who does not even have as much chakra as BM Naruto or his BSM or RSM formats. In which Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than Naruto KB that he split half his chakra into initially. Sakura with out her Byakugo seal fully unraveled was capable of Breaking off Kaguyas Horn and knocking her downward. 

If KCM Naruto gets Hit by Sakura he is done for. EVEN BY HIS OWN WORDS HE FEARS Sakura's Strength. Naruto still wins but seriously this hatred for Sakura to not even respect her capabilities is rediculous just because she cant throw a nuke. Despite Her Punch(While not even in her strongest form) was capable of leveling the battle field.


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## Source (Oct 30, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Naruto has been effected by damage much less than Sakura is capable of producing. He damn near broke his ankle by shunshin. This is KCM Naruto were talking about as well who does not even have as much chakra as BM Naruto or his BSM or RSM formats. In which Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than Naruto KB that he split half his chakra into initially. Sakura with out her Byakugo seal fully unraveled was capable of Breaking off Kaguyas Horn and knocking her downward.
> 
> If KCM Naruto gets Hit by Sakura he is done for. EVEN BY HIS OWN WORDS HE FEARS Sakura's Strength. Naruto still wins but seriously this hatred for Sakura to not even respect her capabilities is rediculous just because she cant throw a nuke. Despite Her Punch(While not even in her strongest form) was capable of leveling the battle field.



lmao, I misread your post, sorry.

I thought you said she could one shot RSM Naruto.


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## Hachibi (Oct 30, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Naruto has been effected by damage much less than Sakura is capable of producing. He damn near broke his ankle by shunshin.



Then we see him taking shit far superior to that.



> This is KCM Naruto were talking about as well who does not even have as much chakra as BM Naruto or his BSM or RSM formats.In which Sakura was stated to have more Chakra than Naruto KB that he split half his chakra into initially.



And?



> Sakura with out her Byakugo seal fully unraveled was capable of Breaking off Kaguyas Horn and knocking her downward.



Outlier.



> If KCM Naruto gets Hit by Sakura he is done for.



Juubi's Tenpeichi >> Sakura's punch.



> EVEN BY HIS OWN WORDS HE FEARS Sakura's Strength.



>Implying this isn't a comic moment.



> Naruto still wins but seriously this hatred for Sakura to not even respect her capabilities is rediculous just because she cant throw a nuke. Despite Her Punch(While not even in her strongest form) was capable of leveling the battle field.



Still doesn't mean shit.


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## RedChidori (Oct 30, 2014)

KCM Naruto still rapes . Any Rasengan destroys Sakura with minimal effort.


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## Kyu (Oct 30, 2014)

KCM beats the piss out of her till she can no longer regenerate. 

His stamina >>> Hers


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## Veo (Oct 30, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> one-liner



Damn!

 Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base

That's 2 lines, I'm in!


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## Hachibi (Oct 30, 2014)

Veo said:


> Damn!
> 
> Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base Naruto stomps in base
> 
> That's 2 lines, I'm in!


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## Turrin (Oct 30, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Well, considering that a fraction, and I'm taking like 1/30,000, of Naruto's chakra was able to _protect_ cannon fodder from a _nuke_ from a fucking Narutoverse God Tier, I don't see Katsuyu doing shit.


Considering that was BM-Naruto, I don't see the relevance. KCM-Naruto was hurt by things like Ukataka's bubbles, Roshi's Lava, etc... So I see no reason to believe KCM-Naruto can tank Katsuya's Acid or Katsuya's weight. There is also reverse shosen that ignores durability and regeneration entirely.



> First off, Sakura doesn't have way more chakra than Tsunade. Sakura has about a three year storage, and Tsunade had about that in the Pain arc.


Sakura doesn't need to use chakra to stay young. So if each day Tsunade uses 5% of her chakra on staying young, Sakura can instead store that 5% in the seal, after 3 Years that extra 5% each day will add up to an absurd amount. And it shows, Sakura's feats of chakra widely surpass Tsunade's.

Edit: Also it's entirely an assumption on your part that Tsunade was even storing chakra for 2.5 Years straight. She may have stopped after 1 Year, as that's the max she could store due to her chakra control being inferior to Sakura's. We just don't know. So just looking at the time that has passed and saying she stored chakra for the same amount of time is a flawed premise to begin with. 



> Secondly, Tsunade boosted a bunch of miniature slugs that amounted to one boss sized slug. You are claiming that Sakura is going to enhance a slug far bigger than the one that took all of Tsunade's chakra to enhance, which is unsubstantiated.


It took all of Tsunade's chakra to constantly be healing the village for chapters on end and than also shield Katsuya and the alliance from CST.

Here Sakura won't need to heal anyone but herself and Katsuya from less attacks; and she has a shit ton more than Tsunade.



> What? Naruto was able to deal a large sum of chakra to thousands of shinobi and still spam nukes like Rasenshuriken.


Again BM-Naruto, not KCM.



> If Naruto puts a huge amount of chakra into one Chōōdama Rasenshuriken, like he's done in the past with Bijudama and FRS itslef, and then adds senjutsu to enhance it even further, that attack would likely be stronger than CST.


Back when Naruto only had KCM he couldn't even mix the modes, and again your extrapolating off a feat that belongs to BM-Naruto. In essence your putting Sakura up against BSM-Naruto right now, who I think would low-diff her, so I have no problem with what your saying, but it just doesn't apply to KCM-Naruto.



> When Kaguya's arm came at Sakura, she turned and sprinted in the opposite direction and it was closing in on her rapidly regardless of that.


The arm went to slam her to the ground and she jumped out of the way. Than it started chasing her and she still evaded it for a bit. 

On the other hand Naruto didn't have time to do anything other than his clone push him out of the way with it's strength.



> If Naruto had turned and flown in the opposite direction, Sasuke would have died (since he cannot fly) and it would have eventually caught up to him anyway.


And this is based on what exactly. All we saw was Naruto failing to even react until the last second when he pushed him and Sasuke out of the way. Than saying the hand is way to fast and it would swallow him and Sasuke up in a second. Sakura last longer than that.



> Retcon?


Yeah Sakura's massive power up in the chapter explosion was all a retecon.



> Which is why I said clone feint.
> 
> Sakura isn't immune to clone feints. Not even Super Kaguya was.


Sakura underestimated the durability of the Juubilings because she never fought them before, and the result was one taking her off guard. Not only will she not underestimate Naruto's clones, but no clone would survive the shockwave of Okasho due to how fragile they were. 

And I'm not convinced that just because Sasuke and Naruto cut in, means that Sakura would be helpless if they did not. Maybe it would have been a closer call, but at worst she activates Byakugo and tanks it or is forced to summon Katsuya to squash it.



> Naruto went through power ups, mainly ones that involved receiving chakra from the strongest biju in excess or mastering senjutsu, both of which enhance speed.
> 
> Sakura did no such thing in between the Jubi fight and Kaguya fight, so I don't see your point.


So Naruto became faster because he gained access to massive volumes of chakra, wonderful; Sakura also gained access to a massive volume of chakra via activating her Byakugo-Seal. And that's exactly what Kishi wants us to believe, the massive volume of chakra Sakura stored up super powered her up, as did no longer needing to focus on storing her own base chakra into the seal. It's a stupid plot twist, but we have to live with it.



> ease. Obito had no way of knowing how much chakra Naruto or Sakura even had at the time.


Except Yah know he has the fucking Sharingan, which can be used exactly for that. Not to mention his sensing capabilities. And why the hell would even say Naruto doesn't have enough, if he had no way to measure. This is really reaching to downplay Sakura; just like you are in the case of every other one of Sakura's feats.



> If Sakura had been the one to volunteer first, Obito would have said the same thing and Naruto would have spoke up.


This is nothing more than fanfiction. And guess what my point still stands even if he did, since Sakura had already expended a massive amount of chakra prior to that scene. So once again with her max reserve she would have been able to easily do it alone and then some. Unless your really going to tell me that 1 more dimension transfer (or not even as she might have also helped out with the first one, hell she might have done the first one by herself as well) costs more than Super Okashi, Boss-Sized Katsuya, Healing Thousands of alliance members for dozens of chapters on end, healing Naruto, using Byakugo to regen from Madara's Gudodama staff, Okasho again, so on and so forth. And if that is the case, than Sakura has even more godly supplies than even I imagined since she did the dimensional transfer three times on-top of already doing that stuff previously, and still having chakra left afterwards. 



> think Obito said that both Sakura and Naruto were "barley enough" anyway, which was wrong, according to you.


Actually in the better trans by Aegon Rikudo, it seems like Obito is saying Sakura's Byakugo-Seal specifically would have more than enough, as he uses "it" which refers to the seal rather than a person:

_obi: the chakra of a clone like you is not enough\\
saku: even my strength of one hundred’s chakra is not enough?\\
16
obi: it should have ample bounds\\_

If you want you can ask Takl to clarify. But regardless common sense tells us a fresh Sakura can do it on her own; or Sakura has God Chakra Levels beyond reason, if one dimensional transfer cost more than everything she had done prior. So pick your poison.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 30, 2014)

Not really seeing how Sakura is supposed to react to *full-power* body flickers from Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto, coupled with a close-range assault with Wind Style: Rasenshuriken.

And even if she could, if she attempts to counter-attack, her _vastly_ slower movements will be perceived and dodged by Naruto - as Sasuke did to Ay - and her body gets _splattered_ across five kilometers by Rasenshuriken. Not even Strength of a Hundred can defend against cell-destroying techniques, unfortunately.

Sorry, Sakura isn't _remotely_ a match for someone who can defeat the Five Kage without too much trouble.


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## Rocky (Oct 31, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Considering that was BM-Naruto, I don't see the relevance. KCM-Naruto was hurt by things like Ukataka's bubbles, Roshi's Lava, etc... So I see no reason to believe KCM-Naruto can tank Katsuya's Acid or Katsuya's weight. There is also reverse shosen that ignores durability and regeneration entirely.



The alliance weren't wearing BM Jackets when they were shielded from the Tenpenchii. 

The cloak that Hinata got from Naruto is what was no-selling a God Tier nuke, and that cloak isn't stronger than KCM Naruto's personal shroud...



> Sakura doesn't need to use chakra to stay young. So if each day Tsunade uses 5% of her chakra on staying young, Sakura can instead store that 5% in the seal, after 3 Years that extra 5% each day will add up to an absurd amount. And it shows, Sakura's feats of chakra widely surpass Tsunade's.



It would only work like that If Tsunade and Sakura were putting all chakra they could afford to each day into the seal. I don't think that is the case.

If for example, Tsunade and Sakura each stored 50% of their chakra every day (and I think even that is very high), they would still have the other 50% left for whatever they needed that day. Tsunade could then tap into that to keep herself young, meaning she has 45% left to spend for the day, while Sakura has 50%. Both are still putting 50% in the seal, though.

You're claiming that Sakura was putting like 99% (leaving 1% to keep herself alive) in, while Tsunade could only put 94% because she has to use 5% to keep herself young. I think the first example sounds more realistic. 



> Edit: Also it's entirely an assumption on your part that Tsunade was even storing chakra for 2.5 Years straight. She may have stopped after 1 Year, as that's the max she could store due to her chakra control being inferior to Sakura's. We just don't know. So just looking at the time that has passed and saying she stored chakra for the same amount of time is a flawed premise to begin with.



I think the reason I don't think that is Shizune's statement _here._

Here Kishimoto had the opportunity to have Sakura definitively surpass her master by having Shizune say that not even _Tsunade_ could do what Sakura had done, but Shizune said that _she herself_ was the one incapable of replicating Sakura's feat.

I would think that you can see what I mean. Shizune (Kishi) should have said that Tsunade couldn't do that if Tsunade really couldn't do that. I mean, Shizune is an irrelevant benchmark....



> It took all of Tsunade's chakra to constantly be healing the village for chapters on end and than also shield Katsuya and the alliance from CST.
> 
> Here Sakura won't need to heal anyone but herself and Katsuya from less attacks; and she has a shit ton more than Tsunade.



Summoning "an absurd portion of Katsuyu" probably takes more juice than healing the villagers with Shousen if Tsunade thought it took two Byakugo users to even bring out 10%, and enhancing said large slug takes much more power than enhancing a boss sized one.

Sakura doesn't have _that_ much more chakra than Tsunade lol. 



> Again BM-Naruto, not KCM. Back when Naruto only had KCM he couldn't even mix the modes, and again your extrapolating off a feat that belongs to BM-Naruto. In essence your putting Sakura up against BSM-Naruto right now, who I think would low-diff her, so I have no problem with what your saying, but it just doesn't apply to KCM-Naruto.



Unless I'm missing something, this is the last version of KCM Naruto we saw before Godruto. Not novice KCM Naruto. That would indicate that Kurama is cooperating, so senjutsu is all good, and Kurama can still give him chakra to make a really big nuke. Hell, he made a _really_ big one in just Sage Mode and still had senjutsu chakra left over. If he puts _all_ of his Sage chakra and most of his KCM Chakra into one Rasenshuriken, I don't doubt that it's blowing Katsuyu up.



> The arm went to slam her to the ground and she jumped out of the way. Than it started chasing her and she still evaded it for a bit.
> 
> On the other hand Naruto didn't have time to do anything other than his clone push him out of the way with it's strength.



I'm looking at the scan, and all I see is Sakura reacting to the hand and trying to get away, but failing miserably to do so. Naruto's clone (who is slower than Naruto) had time to build momentum and slam the main body and Sasuke out of the way. I fully believe that Naruto could have turned and tried to get away, but the hand would have just caught up (because it is faster than both flying Naruto and Sakura).

It doesn't really make sense within the story for Sakura to be faster than a God Tier, even when flying lol. Jubito was dancing around BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke, and he's one of the weaker God Tiers. You know this. 



> Yeah Sakura's massive power up in the chapter explosion was all a retecon.



Massive power up?

We already know what Byakugo does; Tsunade had just used it against Madara. It is a seal-less regeneration technique, like Madara said. It isn't some massive stat booster like senjutsu, which was _canonically stated_ to power up everything.

Sakura is not on the level of Sasuke and Naruto. Dojutsu, senjutsu, and biju powers are the most wanked abilities by the author himself. This is obvious. Just look at the legends in the verse. You know, the sons, the body, the eyes. There isn't any room for the Yin Seal. 

She's more of a support ninja. This is why Sasuke and Naruto took the main _offensive_ roles in the War while Sakura stayed back to, ya know...

..support.



> So Naruto became faster because he gained access to massive volumes of chakra, wonderful; Sakura also gained access to a massive volume of chakra via activating her Byakugo-Seal. And that's exactly what Kishi wants us to believe, the massive volume of chakra Sakura stored up super powered her up, as did no longer needing to focus on storing her own base chakra into the seal. It's a stupid plot twist, but we have to live with it.



I would live with that if Byakugo powered up physical stats like Biju Mode did, but it doesn't. Otherwise, Tsunade would have had this super speed & strength too.

Because she is the creator of Byakugo...



> Actually in the better trans by Aegon Rikudo, it seems like Obito is saying Sakura's Byakugo-Seal specifically would have more than enough, as he uses "it" which refers to the seal rather than a person:
> 
> _obi: the chakra of a clone like you is not enough\\
> saku: even my strength of one hundred’s chakra is not enough?\\
> ...



Then why did Obito bring the Naruto clone if he knew Sakura had _more_ than enough to suffice? Naruto only thought of being the distraction after they had arrived at Kaguya's dimension.


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 31, 2014)

BMSM Naruto>>Sakura

BM Naruto>/= Sakura

Sakura>KCM Naruto

Sakura>SM Naruto

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bitch (Oct 31, 2014)

Going with our queen.  Her current self is stronger than Naruto until the war arc.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 31, 2014)

Eliyua23 said:


> *BM Naruto>/= Sakura*



Uh...wha?

How...?

I'm sorry, I'm at a complete loss for words, can you explain how Sakura is remotely in the same planet with Tailed Beast Mode Naruto when it comes to overall strength?



> Sakura>KCM Naruto
> 
> Sakura>SM Naruto



L-O-L

Sage Naruto, she might have a chance with, what with Katsuyu supporting her. Naruto would be hard-pressed to avoid *enormous*, Tailed Beast-sized globules of rock-melting acid, whilst _simultaneously_ ducking Sakura's hits that are guaranteed to kill him in one hit.

But even then, I'm confident he could pull it off with shadow clone feints (something Sakura can't avoid), or by using Massive Rasenshuriken.

_Nine-Tails Chakra Mode_? 

Naruto disappears from her vision, Sakura gets *pulverized* by Rasenshuriken an instant later.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 31, 2014)

Whem Nardo fights, he uses clomes of 3 or more, now with this distance of 80 meters, theres a lot of time for Nardo to do that, and 3 versus situation, Sakura had 33.33% of hitting a Real Nardo with her Death Super mega strong punch, while Nardo and his Clones had 300% to hit Sakura with a super punch.

Sakura wull tire out, or she will get a loling FRS. 

Mid Diff for Nardo and he can bring Sakura at home and you know.........


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## Mercurial (Oct 31, 2014)

Close this. Eliyua and Turrin are giving people cancer with this Sakura bullshit.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 31, 2014)

Change distance to 5 meters and a good fight will happen.


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## Hachibi (Oct 31, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> Change distance to 5 meters and a good fight will happen.



Even worse for her if I do that.


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## Reznor (Oct 31, 2014)

If they start more than one or two shunshin distances away, I'd say Sakura wins. 


> Knowledge: Full for Sakura. None for Naruto
> Mindset: Capture for Naruto, kill for Sakura


A reverse shousen Katsuya pool will also ruin Naruto's life.
Sakura knows what to watch out for and how Naruto will try to dodge. She's obviously slower than Raikage, but she can make up quite a bit with analysis, Naruto not knowing how powerfully she hits, the fact that she can AoE with her punch and possibly restraining Naruto with Katsuya trap.

Meanwhile, Naruto is restricted from strategies like "FRS blitz GG" due to the capture condition. He has to scale back a bit until he sees that she has regen.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 31, 2014)

As I said, Nicca Hachibi.

5 Meters distance is an even Match cause Sakura had full knowledge.


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## TheGreen1 (Oct 31, 2014)

Eliyua23 said:


> BMSM Naruto>>Sakura
> 
> BM Naruto>/= Sakura
> 
> ...



That's a pretty good joke man. All four versions of Naruto here would slaughter Sakura.

But as for this fight, reading it over a bit more, the issue becomes not killing Sakura, which is easy, but capturing her, which is hard. However, I feel she's helpless as soon as Naruto gets one of his Chakra arms around her. She only releases chakra from a focal point, IE her fists and kicks. If she's wrapped around say, several chakra arms, I don't see her breaking free.


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## Invictus-Kun (Oct 31, 2014)

No, Nardo would not just slaugther Sakura, he would raped her.

Even without Knowledge, Nardo speed is faster, and Sakura's main weapon is just her super strength.


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## TheGreen1 (Oct 31, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> No, Nardo would not just slaugther Sakura, he would raped her.
> 
> Even without Knowledge, Nardo speed is faster, and Sakura's main weapon is just her super strength.



Agreed, and the issue is here, in all of Naruto's super modes, he gains strength that exceeds hers in my opinion. SM is true strength, her's is exerting more force from her chakra. KCM chakra hands grab her, she's not getting free.


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## LostSelf (Oct 31, 2014)

However, without knowledge on her strenght i see Naruto being surprised very often. And considering that he needs to capture instead of kill, chances are that he gets badly hit.


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## Reznor (Oct 31, 2014)

Naruto's high end speed ? Sakura's burst speed > Naruto's reliable speed > Sakura's reliable speed.

It is possible for Sakura to catch Naruto if he's not ready for blitzsmash. He outspeed Raikage once, but he didn't consistently live up that afterwards until his next upgrade (he was tagged by several slower people).


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## TheGreen1 (Oct 31, 2014)

Reznor said:


> Naruto's high end speed ? Sakura's burst speed > Naruto's reliable speed > Sakura's reliable speed.
> 
> It is possible for Sakura to catch Naruto if he's not ready for blitzsmash. He outspeed Raikage once, but he didn't consistently live up that afterwards until his next upgrade (he was tagged by several slower people).



I said that he could tank her punches a bit in KCM at least, until he realizes that he needs to get away from her strength. 

I do not believe that Sakura's burst speed is enough to get Naruto who's completely focused on a one-on-one fight. It's actually more likely, if she hits Naruto, it will be a Kage Bunshin. KCM "Clones" were fighting Kage Level Ninja's and winning. You don't think a Fresh KCM Naruto could handle Sakura, who is undeniably NOT a Kage level ninja?


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## Reznor (Oct 31, 2014)

> I said that he could tank her punches a bit in KCM at least, until he realizes that he needs to get away from her strength.


I don't think he could tank. He might survive, but he'd be messed up.


> I do not believe that Sakura's burst speed is enough to get Naruto who's  completely focused on a one-on-one fight.


 1v1 is a good point, but Katsuya shenanigans split his attention restrict his movement.


> It's actually more likely, if  she hits Naruto, it will be a Kage Bunshin.


 Sakura knows about KB and if Katsuya is out, she'll be informed if Naruto is 100 feet away hiding. 


> KCM "Clones" were fighting Kage Level Ninja's and winning. You don't  think a Fresh KCM Naruto could handle Sakura, who is undeniably NOT a  Kage level ninja?


 I'm not sure I'd say that current Sakura isn't kage level. She wasn't the star player, but she was playing with the big kids. 

Still, you're right that those were KCM clones.


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 31, 2014)

Reznor said:


> Naruto's high end speed ? Sakura's burst speed > Naruto's reliable speed > Sakura's reliable speed.



What the heck is Sakura's 'burst speed'? 

Sakura has zero speed feats, let alone anything that would suggest she's above even Nine-Tails Chakra Mode's reliable speed.


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## Csdabest (Oct 31, 2014)

People should respect the fact that Sakura has the CQC Striking power to put Naruto down.

What she lacks is supplementary Defense and speed boost along with Long Range jutsu to really compete with top tiers. Its the same with Tsunade. While they can recover and regenerate from anything the reality in the BD it does nothing but prolong an ass whooping.

We would like to think Sakura would play out like Tsunade vs Madara with Tsunade getting shreaded to land one hit. But it just doesnt seem likely in reality. Sakura probably does have a speed boost from yin seal but it comparison feats are not really there. Naruto doesn't shunshin every wear either. No shinobi really does. But Naruto should still be faster though.


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## Reznor (Oct 31, 2014)

> What the heck is Sakura's 'burst speed'?
> 
> Sakura has zero speed feats, let alone anything that would suggest she's above even Nine-Tails Chakra Mode's reliable speed.


Sakura and Naruto both have high end speeds above what they consistently demonstrated.

Sakura blitzed the Jyuubi fodder quicker than Naruto and Sasuke did.
Naruto dodged Raikage, but didn't (at that point) consistently perform at that speed.


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## Rocky (Oct 31, 2014)

No character "consistently" uses their body flicker...


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## ATastyMuffin (Oct 31, 2014)

Reznor said:


> Sakura and Naruto both have high end speeds above what they consistently demonstrated.
> 
> Sakura blitzed the Jyuubi fodder quicker than Naruto and Sasuke did.




Moving faster than *Base* Naruto and *Base* Sasuke doesn't remotely mean you can suggest she's faster than Nine-Tails Chakra Mode Naruto, even at his casual speed.

Seriously, what kind of non-sequitur is this.


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## Icegaze (Oct 31, 2014)

naruto utter stomps in 0.000000000001ms


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## KyuubiYondaime (Oct 31, 2014)

@ Turrin 

Naruto must be pretty shitty if he can't beat Sakura, having the Kyuubi's help/chakra/being a Jinchuriki, AND being the reincarnation of of Ashura, the son of Rikudou, considering Sakura isn't a jinchuriki herself, nor is the reincarnation of a mythical entity, nor is she an Uzumaki or has a Hokage for a dad. 

You're SERIOUSLY understimating Naruto. Naruto in this form divided into 13 clones, which completely CHANGED THE TIDE OF THE WAR.

Sakura doesn't stand a chance againts even SM Naruto who can produce massive FRS, let alone KCM Naruto. Stop taking things out of context for your Sannin comparisons.


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 1, 2014)

All this time and we still have this?

Typical. Sakura loses


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> The alliance weren't wearing BM Jackets when they were shielded from the Tenpenchii.


BM-Naruto was the one handing out the chakra to the alliance. Then it took all of Naruto's remaining KCM-Chakra on top of what he had already handed out in BM to protect the alliance from Tenpenchi. So again it was only possible due to BM Chakra levels.



> It would only work like that If Tsunade and Sakura were putting all chakra they could afford to each day into the seal. I don't think that is the case.
> 
> If for example, Tsunade and Sakura each stored 50% of their chakra every day (and I think even that is very high), they would still have the other 50% left for whatever they needed that day. Tsunade could then tap into that to keep herself young, meaning she has 45% left to spend for the day, while Sakura has 50%. Both are still putting 50% in the seal, though.


Your over thinking it. Kishi had Sakura stated in context of storing her chakra in Byakugo that:

"I don?t need to use a part of my chakra to look young, you know!!\\"

It would be nonsensical to make that statement, if it didn't have some impact on the amount of chakra Sakura could store in a certain time frame and Tsunade could store. 



> I think the reason I don't think that is Shizune's statement here.


Shizune says she couldn't use Byakugo, not that she couldn't store the chakra for 3 Years:

_shizune: the strength of hundred seal, that?s something that even I was unable to do!!\\_

Considering Tsunade can use Byakugo, of course she wasn't included in the statement.



> Summoning "an absurd portion of Katsuyu" probably takes more juice than healing the villagers with Shousen


How many Boss-Sized Katsuya do you think equals out to 1/10th Katsuya? To me 1/10th looks like about the size of 2-3 Boss Sized Katsuya. And I don't think it make sense to assume that 2-3 Boss Sized Katsuya costs more chakra than; Summoning 1 Boss Sized Katsuya, Healing the entire Village for an hour - two hours - whatever it was, and than shielding the entire village from CST. I also don't think it makes much sense that Tsunade with 2.5 Years worth of Chakra and her normal supply can't pull off 2-3 Boss Sized Katsuya summonings. 

I mean Part 1 Kabuto pulled off a Boss summoning on top of many other techniques, and he only had a 3 in stamina back then. Yet someone whose got a 3.5 + 2.5 Years of Chakra Storage can't pull out the equivalent of 3 Boss Summonings; that makes no sense. So something has to give here. Ether Tsunade was not storing anywhere near 2.5/3-Years worth of chakra in her Seal or Healing the Village costs much more chakra than the equivalent of  2-3 Boss Summonings. So you need to clarify what your view point on this issue is.



> if Tsunade thought it took two Byakugo users to even bring out 10%, and enhancing said large slug takes much more power than enhancing a boss sized one.


Tsunade never said that it required two Byakugo users to summon 1/10th Katsuya, she said that two Byakugo users should be able to do so and make 1/10th Katsuya a foothold to heal the entire alliance and combat the effects of the Shinju tree, with the alliance numbering into the the tens of thousands. 

_tsu: two people with the 100 men seal activated?\\
tsu: should be able to summon one tenth of katsuyu real body from the shikkotsu forest!\\
tsu: we will make everyone from the alliance use katsuyu as foothold!\\ that will become a healing area where they can recuperate\\_

_?: t-this is!?\\
??: with this? we can fight even if it will suck our chakra!\\
_

Tsunade was never estimating the maximum amount of Katsuya that She, Sakura, or both of them could summon together. She was just saying together they can summon 1/10th and make it into a foothold for the alliance.

You find me the panel where Tsunade says Sakura can't summon 1/10th by herself and i'll concede.



> Sakura doesn't have that much more chakra than Tsunade lol.


Yes she does. Reread the Juubi/Obito/Madara/Kaguya battles and notice how much chakra Sakura was constantly exercising and at the end she still had chakra left.



> Unless I'm missing something, this is the last version of KCM Naruto we saw before Godruto. Not novice KCM Naruto. That would indicate that Kurama is cooperating, so senjutsu is all good, and Kurama can still give him chakra to make a really big nuke. Hell, he made a really big one in just Sage Mode and still had senjutsu chakra left over. If he puts all of his Sage chakra and most of his KCM Chakra into one Rasenshuriken, I don't doubt that it's blowing Katsuyu up.


When someone says KCM-Naruto I assume they are referring to Naruto before Kurama started to cooperate, because after that point we enter BM's powers and abilities, or BSM. If someone said Naruto w/ BSM/BM restricted than I'd be inclined to think it's current Naruto, but here it's KCM-Naruto.

Anyway If were talking about a current Naruto whose just restricted from anything BM and up, than of course he stomps. Naruto can now balance an equal amount of natural energy to his Kyuubi chakra, even in KCM that would be an astronomical amount of natural energy. So  currentKCSM-Naruto would be stronger than BM-Naruto, and low diff Sakura. But to me that's irrelevant because no one was ever arguing Sakura stacks up to that Naruto anyway; nor do I think the thread is about pitting KCSM-Naruto against Sakura, but KCM-Naruto.



> I'm looking at the scan, and all I see is Sakura reacting to the hand and trying to get away, but failing miserably to do so. Naruto's clone (who is slower than Naruto) had time to build momentum and slam the main body and Sasuke out of the way. I fully believe that Naruto could have turned and tried to get away, but the hand would have just caught up (because it is faster than both flying Naruto and Sakura).


Let's put aside whether or Not Sakura is faster than Godruto's flight speed or not, even if that's not the case Naruto stated that Kaguya's arms were extremely quick and the manga indicates that as well. Sakura managed to react and evade them for a while. Regardless of whether she is faster than Naruto's flight speed or not that should place her speed at a very high level.



> t doesn't really make sense within the story for Sakura to be faster than a God Tier, even when flying lol. Jubito was dancing around BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke, and he's one of the weaker God Tiers. You know this.


None of Sakura's power up makes sense, but that's too bad we have to live with it. However that aside it does make sense with what we later see in the story, where Kaguya dodges Naruto's flight speed, but fails to dodge Sakura's jumping speed.


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2014)

> We already know what Byakugo does; Tsunade had just used it against Madara. It is a seal-less regeneration technique, like Madara said. It isn't some massive stat booster like senjutsu, which was canonically stated to power up everything.


This is the mistake people keep making. Sōzō Saisei is the healing Technique, while Byakugo is a boosting technique. That's why Sōzō Saisei is literally called Creation Rebirth (or Mitotic Regeneration), while Byakugo is called Strength of 100 Technique (or Seal). Byakugo/Byakugo-Seal heals the users because it's used in conjunction with Sōzō Saisei. Basically it boosts Sōzō Saisei, that same way it has been shown to boost other abilities as well, such as Onoki's Jinton or Obito's Kamui. Byakugo/Byakugo-Seal is basically just a massive amount of chakra that can be drawn on to boost all sorts of abilities, as massive quantities of chakra always have. 

Sakura's Byakugo/Byakugo-Seal has 3 Years worth of chakra that can be drawn on or released, hence it resulting in such a fantastic boost to all of Sakura's capabilities.



> Sakura is not on the level of Sasuke and Naruto. Dojutsu, senjutsu, and biju powers are the most wanked abilities by the author himself. This is obvious. Just look at the legends in the verse. You know, the sons, the body, the eyes. There isn't any room for the Yin Seal.


Byakugo-Seal/Byakugo is Tsunade's equivalent ability to the other two Sannin's usage of Senjutsu. Which is in turn equivalent to Dojutsu and Bijuu powers. It just matters what skill level the user has with these powers. Sakura has an absurd skill level due to being able to store large quantities of chakra in the seal for 3 Years, hence why she is able to surpass Tsunade and match Sasuke and Naruto in their higher stages. Of course once Sasuke and Naruto started being able to stack multiple powers, such as EMS + CS or BM + SM, or Rinnegan + Sharingan + S06P Tatoo, or Multiple Bijuu + Yin Kurama + SO6P Tatoo, they far surpassed Sakura again, as all she had was Byakugo. But when talking about one power at a time, she is good enough to be in the same league as them. At least that's how Kishi seems to see the story.



> She's more of a support ninja. This is why Sasuke and Naruto took the main offensive roles in the War while Sakura stayed back to, ya know...
> 
> ..support.


Sakura and Tsunade are both combat and support ninja, Tsunade made that extremely clear when she revealed the Byakugo-Seal. They take support roles in the war, because there were others who could fight, but only they could support as effectively as they did.



> I would live with that if Byakugo powered up physical stats like Biju Mode did, but it doesn't. .


Massive Quantities of chakra like that have always boosted a person's capabilities



> Otherwise, Tsunade would have had this super speed & strength too.
> 
> Because she is the creator of Byakugo..


Tsunade's did seem to get a-lot faster when she started drawing on the Byakugo-Seal. Tsunade has a 3.5 in speed, yet her speed feats against Madara after drawing on the Byakugo-Seal were much more impressive than a mere 3.5 in speed.

She crosses a massive distance between herself and Madara in a split instance here:
distance

She arrives to kick Madara in nearly the same time as Raiton no Yoroi E's Onoki light weighted flight  speed here:
distance

She hits Madara before he can react here:
distance
distance

She attacks Madara with great speed here:
distance

She managed to blitz a Stage 3 EMS-Susano'o Wielding Clone here:
distance

And the very fact that she was able to duke it out with those clones so long, w/o them cutting her in half is also something to take note of as well.

She was the first one to react to Madara's Katons here:
distance

If Tsunade's speed was just a 3.5 she shouldn't have been able to accomplish any of this. Madara should have danced circles around her on the basis of his high speed and Straight Spiral Enhanced Sharingan prediction alone. So Tsunade did seem to get a-lot quicker when drawing chakra from the Byakugo-seal, which conforms exactly to what we saw with Sakura.



> hen why did Obito bring the Naruto clone if he knew Sakura had more than enough to suffice? Naruto only thought of being the distraction after they had arrived at Kaguya's dimension.


Maybe he wanted a back up to be safe. Maybe he wanted the clone to guard them. Or Again maybe Takl should be asked, like I said or if you have the raw/ know where to get the raw I'd take a look at it myself. I'm not saying anything definitive as far as that issue goes. What I am saying is that all logic and reason tells us that Sakura could have done it on her own if she hadn't used up a massive amount of chakra prior to the incident in the war, which de-facto puts her at having more chakra than the clone.


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## Icegaze (Nov 1, 2014)

well turrin you have peaked my interest so byakuyo is a boosting technique huh?
mind showing me a scan?
because how i understood it was its a regeneration tech and not a healing tech like the one tsunade used in part 1. However if its a boosting tech then some of your arguments make sense
so strength of a 100 will boost sozo to infinite ends. Sakura split in half should regen like jin madara

what do you estimate her regen levels to be??? what can she regen from?
what happens when FRS hits her which it obviously will. naruto can direct it

i lied not curious at all. byakuyo is a regen tech thats all 
distance


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> well turrin you have peaked my interest so byakuyo is a boosting technique huh?
> mind showing me a scan?
> because how i understood it was its a regeneration tech and not a healing tech like the one tsunade used in part 1. However if its a boosting tech then some of your arguments make sense
> so strength of a 100 will boost sozo to infinite ends. Sakura split in half should regen like jin madara
> ...



I hope you know that in the actually Japanese text it says The "Sōzō Saisei Byakugo Jutsu", I.E. 577 100% supports what I said. That the regeneration is done by Sōzō Saisei, while Byakugo is a boosting technique; and the "Sōzō Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu" is Tsunade using Sōzō Saisei in tandem with the boosting effect of Byakugo.

So congratz for proving your own point wrong.


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## Icegaze (Nov 1, 2014)

read 577 
nothing in that chapter mentions it a boosting technique at all


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 1, 2014)

So this thread is still being discusssed?

Narddo stomps, Mid Diff.


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> read 577
> nothing in that chapter mentions it a boosting technique at all


Yeah except for it's name being "Strength of 100", but i'm sure that's not about boosting ones abilities.  Also it's not like we literally saw it drastically boost Onoki's and Obito's abilities in successive chapters; i mean if that happened you'd almost have to be insane to think it doesn't boost things. Good thing that didn't happen, right


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## trance (Nov 1, 2014)

KCM Naruto is solidly above most Kage level ninja, only being clearly outclassed by the strongest ones like Madara, Hashirama and Minato. Sakura is on the lowest end of Kage level. I'd place her as more of an extremely powerful Elite Jonin level ninja instead, though.


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## Rocky (Nov 1, 2014)

Turrin, all of Sakura's feats against Kaguya came when she didn't have Byakugo active...


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Turrin, all of Sakura's feats against Kaguya came when she didn't have Byakugo active...


She had the Byakugu-Seal activated. Sakura and Tsunade don't have to have the markings on their bodies to draw on the chakra from the Byakugo-Seal. This is revealed when Katsuya tells Orochimaru that her and Tsunade are using the Byakugo-Seal's chakra to heal the Hokage, despite the markings no being present on Tsunade's body:

_oro: however… katsuyu… why the healing is going so slow even if you are here?\\
katsu: I work together with tusnade-sama’s strength of hundred power and use its chakra…\\
katsu: right now tusnade-sama is really weak…\\
katsu: and we are not able to activate enough of my power\\
oro: … so that’s how things worked between the two of you…\\
oro: … well now that I think about it, this is the first time that I see tsunade so weakened…\\
katsu: right now we are concentrating on healing…\\ while keeping the summoning active in some way.\\ _

Tsunade also demonstrates this when remote healing Konoha:
distance
distance

Sakura demonstrates it here:
distance
distance
distance

Ether the markings only appear when Tsunade or Sakura are using Sōzō Saisei Byakugo Jutsu, rather than just Byakugo-Seal's power or the markings appear when they are drawing a massive amount of chakra from the Byakugo-Seal at one time. I personally believe it's the former, however ether way they can still draw a large amount of chakra from the Byakugo-Seal w/o the markings actually forming.


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## ueharakk (Nov 2, 2014)

KCM Naruto stomps in either a 1 v 1 fight or a straight up capture scenario.

A severely inferior KCM Naruto made 13 clones, just one of those clones was able to land a FRS on an opponent who's much faster than sakura, and sakura's fighting style being mere taijutsu strikes while sandaime raikage's fighting style consisting of the exact same thing makes the comparison valid.

*Tsunade implied that sakura and her were only able to summon 10% katsuya,*  nothing suggests she can summon significantly more of katsuyu on her own.  Plus, even if she were to do that, naruto ends the slug with a chou oodama rasenshuriken since the rasenshuriken alone is already the size of a boss summon and it becomes incomparably larger when it expands.

If naruto has zero knowledge on her, he test her out with a clone, learns about her fighting capabilities and ends her with a rasenshuriken either redirected into her or shunshined into her.  If he has to capture her, he hits her with chou oodama rasengans until her regen wears out.

Sakura punching kaguya's horn off means absolutely nothing about her other than she's physically strong enough to punch kaguya's horn off.  SM Minato got fodderized when he went up against Madara 1 vs 1, yet armless minato took away half of madara's offense/defense in a single move when he was working together with a team.  Sakura simply landing a hit on Kaguya with the held of a guy who can fight on par with kaguya, and 2 other juubi jin level opponents is suppose to mean something about how she stacks up to these people in actual combat?


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## Sorin (Nov 2, 2014)

Want to say that Sakura has 1% chance of winning this.

And regarding Sakura ending this match with a punch. Yeah i have a hard time believing that when a jinchuriki who specializes in brute force(steam powered Han) with a very well placed kick to his face only bruised him a bit. You know the same bijuu which allowed Naruto to overpower Kaguya's punches. 

At worst Sakura gets a punch in, Naruto gets a little bruise and, knowing about it, feints her to hell and back and bitchslaps her senseless.


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## Icegaze (Nov 2, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yeah except for it's name being "Strength of 100", but i'm sure that's not about boosting ones abilities.  Also it's not like we literally saw it drastically boost Onoki's and Obito's abilities in successive chapters; i mean if that happened you'd almost have to be insane to think it doesn't boost things. Good thing that didn't happen, right



 
byakuyo is a no handseals healing technique unlike sozo which requires tsunade forms the seal everytime she needs to heal. jesus!!!
tsunade giving onoki chakra boosted his technique that has nothing to do with byakuyo at all 
nothing AT ALL!!! LEARN TO READ!!your  grasping at straws to hype sakura pointlessly

seal on her forhead= stored chakra
full body marking= byakuyo

she can use stored chakra to perform byakuyo but otherwise the 2 arent related. If she is using byakuyo the markings will show.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> byakuyo is a no handseals healing technique unlike sozo which requires tsunade forms the seal everytime she needs to heal. jesus!!!
> tsunade giving onoki chakra boosted his technique that has nothing to do with byakuyo at all
> nothing AT ALL!!! LEARN TO READ!!your  grasping at straws to hype sakura pointlessly
> 
> ...



Once again the technique your referring to is called Souzou Saisei Byakugo, not Byakugo. 

Byakugo has everything to do with Tsunade boosting Onoki, as the tremendous amount of chakra she transfered to him was the chakra stored in the Byakugo-Seal. Same thing with how Sakura boosted Obito's Kamui. 

To summerize there are two techniques Byakugo-Seal/Byakugo which provides Sakura/Tsunade (or whoever they transfer it to) with chakra proportional to what they have stored in the seal, in Sakura's case a tremendous amount as she stored 3 Years worth. Than there is Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu which is what they use to regenerate, and is the souzou Saisei technique used in conjunction with the chakra stored in Byakugo Seal to boost it's effects and maintain it's effects over a long duration of time.

And please don't complaining to me about learning to read, when your advocating for faulty translations and don't even understand the original text.


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## Mercurial (Nov 2, 2014)

Naruto extends a Rasenshuriken with a chakra arms and she dies.

Naruto blitzes her hitting with a Bijuu Rasengan and she dies.

Naruto throws a Rasenshuriken and she dies.

Naruto throws a Cho Odama Rasenshuriken and she dies.

Naruto makes some clones and they rape her.


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## Rokudaime (Nov 2, 2014)

Naruto stomps.


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 2, 2014)

I cant really undertsand why there are still who thinks Sakura was on tier with KCM Naruto.

A Nardo clone is enough for her.


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## Hachibi (Nov 2, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> I cant really undertsand why there are still who thinks Sakura was on tier with KCM Naruto.
> 
> A Nardo clone is enough for her.



Because a character *think* to be on a certain level.

Must be Kishi portaying her at BM Naruto-level 

Also the horrible mess that is the Kaguya fight.


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## Icegaze (Nov 2, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Once again the technique your referring to is called Souzou Saisei Byakugo, not Byakugo.
> 
> Byakugo has everything to do with Tsunade boosting Onoki, as the tremendous amount of chakra she transfered to him was the chakra stored in the Byakugo-Seal. Same thing with how Sakura boosted Obito's Kamui.
> 
> ...



you have yet to provide any scans that show that byakuyo is anything other than a healign technique 
feel free to provide one please 
because seal on forehead= stored chakra simply put 
this has been mentioned many times already


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## JuicyG (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm not convinced at all about Sakura's speed being above KCM Naruto's at all. That to me is a bunch hype & ass pull. She's not escaping an extended match with Naruto alive. She catches a FRS to the face with some good speed and clone combos


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## SSMG (Nov 2, 2014)

Naruto grabs her with a chakra arm and kills her with rasengan vacuum.
Naruto grabs her with a chakra arm and squeezes killing her.
Naruto grabs her with a chakra arm to hold her in place, hits her with a FRS, killing her.
Naruto grabs her wit a chakra arm to hold her in place and drops a boss toad on her head.

Likewise Sakura goes to punch naruto hitting a clone and gets countered with any of these ive said above.

I dont know why this is really even a topic tbh


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> you have yet to provide any scans that show that byakuyo is anything other than a healign technique
> feel free to provide one please
> because seal on forehead= stored chakra simply put
> this has been mentioned many times already


I already have cited two very clear instances; Obito and Onoki.


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## Icegaze (Nov 2, 2014)

because kishi said she is KCm naruto level 
i recall he said itachi is invincible yet people choose to call BS on that yet somehow sakura is supposed to be believe at a level she clearly isnt. Oh please!! -snip-

@turrin 
very slow your citations prove nothing 
she simply stored chakra in a seal. byakuyo is described as a healing technique not requiring seals. madara even directly compares her healign to hashirama healing after she clearly said byakuyo strength of 100 is a healing tech


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @turrin
> very slow your citations prove nothing
> she simply stored chakra in a seal. byakuyo is described as a healing technique not requiring seals. madara even directly compares her healign to hashirama healing after she clearly said byakuyo strength of 100 is a healing tech


No Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu is described as a healing technique. Byakugo-Seal is seal containing stored chakra, which Sakura and Tsunade can draw on to boost their capabilities or the capabilities of others. Again see Onoki or in the Obito instance where Sakura specifically stated that the chakra in her Byakugo-Seal could be used to boost/fuel Obito's Kamui. I've literally explained why your mistaken based on the actual Japanese text 5 times now and you keep repeating the same faulty reason, if it wasn't right the first time, it's not going to be right the second or fifth time.


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## Icegaze (Nov 2, 2014)

whats faulty is your logic of claimign because sakura said she is KCM level that she is 
if so itachi is invincible. 
argue that 
fine byakugo is a boosting technique so it will boost her death . congrats


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2014)

Byakugō no Jutsu and the Byakugō no In are different things.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 2, 2014)

Four pages?

KCM Naruto hits her with a rasenshuriken or two.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> whats faulty is your logic of claimign because sakura said she is KCM level that she is
> if so itachi is invincible.
> argue that


The way Kishi hypes people is temporal. Itachi's S4-Susano'o was one of the most difficult defenses to breach when BZ hyped him. But as more Techniques and abilities were revealed, that no longer held true. Sakura was roughly as strong as BM-Naruto and EMS-Sasuke, when she was hyped as such. However as more time passed and they gained more powers, this no longer held true. It's not a difficult concept to understand.



> fine byakugo is a boosting technique


Thank god you finally understand this concept.



> so it will boost her death . congrats


Your entitled to whatever opinion you want, but I i'm not going to change my opinion to side with yours over Kishi's


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Nov 2, 2014)

I think one of Naruto's greatest advantages in this fight is his use of bunshin/henge trickery.  Yes, Sakura has full knowledge, but she has no sensing ability, so while she'll know that Naruto is likely to try such tactics, she has no way to actually discern which copy is really Naruto, which FRS's are real and which are actually Henge'd Narutoes, etc.  By overwhelming her with sheer numbers (and perhaps summoning a couple of frogs to act as meat-shields while he sets up), he should be able to land a Fuuton Rasengan or FRS.  

Tsunade said that even she couldn't heal the damage done by Fuuton Rasengan, which makes me think that Byakugo won't help against it.  As such, Naruto should be able to capture Sakura successfully here.




ueharakk said:


> *Tsunade implied that sakura and her were only able to summon 10% katsuya,*  nothing suggests she can summon significantly more of katsuyu on her own.



To be fair, IIRC this quote was after a large portion of the war had happened.  I could easily believe that Sakura would be able to summon more of Katsuyu if she hadn't spent the past three days fighting Juubito+Zetsu Army+ET Army+Madara.  I still think Naruto wins this, though.


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## SSMG (Nov 2, 2014)

"because kishi said she is KCm naruto level"
When did he say this?

But either way it doesnt make it true which you seem to agree with.


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## Icegaze (Nov 2, 2014)

yh it doesnt make it true its utterly false
kishi said so when sakura was havign an internal wank fest with herself and compared herself to naruto saying she has finally caught up 
which was BS but some believe it.


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## SSMG (Nov 2, 2014)

Oh okay yeahi agree that line is BS.. that line  can be dimissed because we were shown moments later naruto needing to save her, and ten she just went back to her healing role.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2014)

There is no feasible way Sakura can defeat Biju Mode Naruto. Naruto uses Bijudama and she is no more.

If she summons the slug, Naruto makes a really big Bijudama and the slug is no more.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Byakugō no Jutsu and the Byakugō no In are different things.



Actually it's more like this:

Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu is the regeneration technique Sakura and Tsunade use

Byakugo no In is the seal, which can be used to boost their capabilities (or others) proportional to the amount of chakra that is stored and utilized

As for what they mean when saying "Byakugo no Jutsu", "Byakugo", or "Byakugo Power". I think it's just a short form of referring to ether the Byakuo no In or Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu, instead of saying the full name every time, with the context deciding whether they are referring to Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu or Byakugo no In. 

Just like the precursors to Byakugo no In and Souzou Saisei Byakugo no Jutsu, were Infuuin and Souzou Saisei. 

Most likely the reason Kishi changed the names in the first place was because Byakugo no In is an evolved form of Infuuin, which simply has a much more massive quantity of chakra stored within it. To the point where Byakugo no In starts boosting the person's capabilities, hence it being called the "Strength of 100 Seal/Jutsu/Power"



Rocky said:


> There is no feasible way Sakura can defeat Biju Mode Naruto. Naruto uses Bijudama and she is no more.
> 
> If she summons the slug, Naruto makes a really big Bijudama and the slug is no more.


I would not be at all surprised if 1/10th (or 2/10th) Katsuya being fed 3Y Byakugo's Souzou Saisei power would be able to tank BM-Bijuudama. Body-Sized Katsuya being fed less Byakugo-Chakra was able to tank CST, which I don't think is drastically far off from most of BM-Naruto's Bijuudama in strength, with the obvious exception being Flash-Bijuudama, which scales up the size of Bijuudama tremendously, but were also scaling up the size of Katsuya and potency of Byakugo Souzou Saisei tremendously, so yeah.


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## ueharakk (Nov 2, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I would not be at all surprised if 1/10th (or 2/10th) Katsuya being fed 3Y Byakugo's Souzou Saisei power would be able to tank BM-Bijuudama. Body-Sized Katsuya being fed less Byakugo-Chakra was able to tank CST,


CST isn't an explosion, it's just a large AoE attack that continuously affects an X amount of area over a certain amount of time.

It's in the category as bee's whirlwind and the juubi's tenpenchi, the later which was incomparably more powerful than CST, yet by your logic would have done zero damage to a V3 susanoo and almost no damage to V1 alliance fodders.

like the V1 alliance members don't have a shot at surviving a bijuudama despite surviving tenpen chi, katsuyu doesn't have a shot at surviving a direct hit from a bijuudama despite surviving CST.



Turrin said:


> which I don't think is drastically far off from most of BM-Naruto's Bijuudama in strength, with the obvious exception being Flash-Bijuudama, which scales up the size of Bijuudama tremendously, but were also scaling up the size of Katsuya and potency of Byakugo Souzou Saisei tremendously, so yeah.



Sakura doesn't even have an answer for a KCM chou oodama rasenshuriken since she nor the slugs can defend themselves from the affects of the wind sphere.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2014)

Turrin said:


> I would not be at all surprised if 1/10th (or 2/10th) Katsuya being fed 3Y Byakugo's Souzou Saisei power would be able to tank BM-Bijuudama. Body-Sized Katsuya being fed less Byakugo-Chakra was able to tank CST, which I don't think is drastically far off from most of BM-Naruto's Bijuudama in strength, with the obvious exception being Flash-Bijuudama.



I'm talking about that Bijudama x5 that Naruto used on the five Biju. Is that flash Bijudama?

It's also worth noting that CST and Bijudama aren't the same kind of attack. CST pushed everything in Konoha to its _outskirts._ Bijudama just straight up obliterates things. CST is more impressive in AoE rather than potency, much like Hachimaki or the Tenpenchi. 



> which scales up the size of Bijuudama tremendously, but were also scaling up the size of Katsuya and potency of Byakugo Souzou Saisei tremendously, so yeah.



Naruto will just use a bigger Bijudama than "Flash Bijudama" then, until it is big enough to obliterate the slug. With Kurama, the strongest Biju, backing him, I don't doubt that it's happening.

Also, if we're going by the logic that both are scaled up, then Sakura's going to end up in a coma. Even if Sakura may have more chakra than Tsunade, she has to protect a bigger slug and Naruto's maximum power Bijudama absolutely shits on any Shinra Tensei from a Pain Path.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2014)

Rocky said:


> I'm talking about that Bijudama x5 that Naruto used on the five Biju. Is that flash Bijudama?


Yes that is Flash Bijuudama



> It's also worth noting that CST and Bijudama aren't the same kind of attack. CST pushed everything in Konoha to its _outskirts._ Bijudama just straight up obliterates things. CST is more impressive in AoE rather than potency, much like Hachimaki or the Tenpenchi.


CST pushed some things, but in the area it actually hit it obliterated them turning everything to dust and creating a massive crater. 



> Naruto will just use a bigger Bijudama than "Flash Bijudama" then, until it is big enough to obliterate the slug. With Kurama, the strongest Biju, backing him, I don't doubt that it's happening.


The Biggest we've seen from him is Flash Bijuudama and he had many opportunities to show larger. With that said perhaps he could create a larger one if he put in all or most of his chakra into it, and defeat Sakura that way, but were talking extremely high diff if Naruto has to waste all his chakra to do it. And perhaps Sakura could summon an even larger Katsuya than 1/10th/2/10ths and still survive it.



> Also, if we're going by the logic that both are scaled up, then Sakura's going to end up in a coma. Even if Sakura may have more chakra than Tsunade, she has to protect a bigger slug and Naruto's maximum power Bijudama absolutely shits on any Shinra Tensei from a Pain Path.


Sakura's chakra also dwarfs Tsunade's, and she wouldn't have been healing hundreds or thousands of Villagers for an hour or several hours prior to then.

But if you want to discuss chakra levels more, I'm going to need you to tell me how much chakra you think all the stuff Sakura did from the war (and still had some left) takes.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2014)

Turrin said:


> CST pushed some things, but in the area it actually hit it obliterated them turning everything to dust and creating a massive crater.





Well since there were no Katsuyu left in the crater when the dust cleared, that means any slugs "actually hit" by CST were obliterated, which only supports my point that they stand no chance against Bijudama.



> The Biggest we've seen from him is Flash Bijuudama and he had many opportunities to show larger.



Sakura hasn't shown to summon anything more than Boss Sized Katsuyu by herself, so not sure why you would try this. 

Naruto used flash Bijudama after having spammed attack after attack throughout the war without rest, and he continued to fight after he used it.



> With that said perhaps he could create a larger one if he put in all or most of his chakra into it, and defeat Sakura that way, but were talking extremely high diff if Naruto has to waste all his chakra to do it. And perhaps Sakura could summon an even larger Katsuya than 1/10th/2/10ths and still survive it.



Naruto doesn't have to waste all of his chakra to do it. Naruto's chakra reserves are massive by his lonesome, and when paired with Kurama, he dwarfs even Sakura's three year storage. This is the Perfect Jinchuriki of the strongest Biju we're talking about.



> But if you want to discuss chakra levels more, I'm going to need you to tell me how much chakra you think all the stuff Sakura did from the war (and still had some left) takes.



Why don't we compare Naruto and Sakura's most impressive periods without restoration, then. Feel free to correct me if I misremember some of the events. 

Naruto:


Activated KCM and escapes Barrier with B.
Used KCM and multiple Flash Flickers against A.
Split his Chakra into 13 parts and sent them off to fight Kages.
Fought Itachi & Nagato in KCM. Used Multiple FRS and Rasengan.
Fought Tobi's Jinchuriki Paths in KCM. Used Rasengan.
Fought against five Biju in Biju Mode. Used Super Bijudama.
Continued against Tobi in KCM after BM time limit ran out.
Went back into BM and fought Tobi. Used Super Bijudama/Rasengan with a clone out.
Fought Madara and Obito in Biju Mode. Used a Mega Combo Bijudama with B (with a clone out).
Powered Kakashi's Kamui.
Fought against the Jubi. Spammed Bijudama.
BM time limit ran out. Continued in Sage Mode against the Jubi.
Went back into Biju Mode and _massively_ powered up every single remaining alliance member, which numbered in the fucking tens of thousands.
Used duel Rasenshuriken in a combo attack with the alliance to sever the Jubi's connection from Madara and Obito.
Continued in KCM against Madara and Obito. Remotely protected the alliance from various attacks.
Protected the Alliance from the Tenpenchi.
Was healed by Sakura.

Sakura:


Healed Various alliance members in tents throughout the initial stages of war.
Activated the Byakugo no In, fought against Jubilings.
Summoned Katsuyu.
Remotely healed various alliance members.
Paired up with Tsunade and summoned 1/10th of Katsuyu.
Paired up with Tsunade and remotely healed the alliance to counteract the Shinju.
Tried to heal dying Naruto.
Used Byakugo against Jubidara's staff.
Juiced Obito's Kamui against Kaguya.
Fought against Kaguya. Used medical taijutsu.
Has an unknown amount of power left.

Naruto's been more impressive as far as who can go longer.  Hell, if somewhere around 1/30,000 of Naruto's chakra can power the lowly Hinata up to a level where her attacks push back the Jubi, then I shutter to imagine what would happen when Naruto concentrates the majority of his power on one person like Sakura did Obito.

If this becomes a contest of who can put out more power, I cannot fathom why anyone is taking Sakura over a transmigrate Uzumaki and the Nine Tailed Fox. 

If Sakura pores all of her Chakra into the slug, Naruto pores all of _fucking Kurama's_ chakra into a Bijudama and blows the slug up. Then Naruto goes into Sage Mode and cleans up a comatose Sakura.

gg


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Well since there were no Katsuyu left in the crater when the dust cleared, that means any slugs "actually hit" by CST were obliterated, which only supports my point that they stand no chance against Bijudama.


This is a fair point, I didn't think of that. But there were still Konoha Shinobi that were very close to blast's epicenter, considering how quickly they arrived at Naruto's side; like Tsunade, Anbu, and Hinata. So we must imagine that many of the body sized Katsuya tanked a considerable amount of force from CST.



> Sakura hasn't shown to summon anything more than Boss Sized Katsuyu by herself, so not sure why you would try this.
> 
> Naruto used flash Bijudama after having spammed attack after attack throughout the war without rest, and he continued to fight after he used it.


Because summoning more Katsuya doesn't require greater skill. However shaping more chakra into a large Bijuudama does. 



> Naruto doesn't have to waste all of his chakra to do it. Naruto's chakra reserves are massive by his lonesome, and when paired with Kurama, he dwarfs even Sakura's three year storage. This is the Perfect Jinchuriki of the strongest Biju we're talking about.


I would think anything larger than Flash-Bijuu-Dama would take up a considerable amount of BM-Naruto's chakra, and I have to imagine he used some other shit before resorting to larger than Flash-Bijuudama attack.



> Naruto's been more impressive as far as who can go longer.  Hell, if somewhere around 1/30,000 of Naruto's chakra can power the lowly Hinata up to a level where her attacks push back the Jubi, then I shutter to imagine what would happen when Naruto concentrates the majority of his power on one person like Sakura did Obito.
> 
> If this becomes a contest of who can put out more power, I cannot fathom why anyone is taking Sakura over a transmigrate Uzumaki and the Nine Tailed Fox.


I wasn't comparing Naruto to Sakura; Naruto obviously has more chakra than Sakura, but I believe his moves are also more chakra demanding than Sakura's. I was just asking you to tell me how much chakra you think it takes to pull off Sakura's feats in the War.



> If Sakura pores all of her Chakra into the slug, Naruto pores all of fucking Kurama's chakra into a Bijudama and blows the slug up. Then Naruto goes into Sage Mode and cleans up a comatose Sakura.


Personally I think it takes less chakra to use Souzou Saisei Byakugo and summoning large Katsuya, than it does to create the massive Bijuudamas your describing. But even if we go with your scenario, your describing at least a high diff win, with Naruto pouring all of Kurama's chakra into a massive Bijuudama we've never seen before and than needing SM even after that to finish off Sakura.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Nov 3, 2014)

Naruto diverts her attention with a kagebunshin and another kagebunshin erases her off the face of the earth with a mini bijuudama.


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## Rocky (Nov 3, 2014)

Turrin said:


> This is a fair point, I didn't think of that. But there were still Konoha Shinobi that were very close to blast's epicenter, considering how quickly they arrived at Naruto's side; like Tsunade, Anbu, and Hinata. So we must imagine that many of the body sized Katsuya tanked a considerable amount of force from CST.



CST does emit a considerable amount of force, which is why Tsunade needed to enhance Katsuyu in the first place. However, it isn't like being hit by Bijudama, because that force is just a big push. Bijudama is not.



> Because summoning more Katsuya doesn't require greater skill. However shaping more chakra into a large Bijuudama does.



I don't know if that's even true, so can you give me a source for this point?

Though even if it is, why do you doubt Naruto of all people lacks the skill. His chakra control is _masterful._



> I would think anything larger than Flash-Bijuu-Dama would take up a considerable amount of BM-Naruto's chakra, and I have to imagine he used some other shit before resorting to larger than Flash-Bijuudama attack.



I don't. Naruto spams Bijudama. He was firing off _humungous_ _Bijudama_ with his chakra cut in half from Kage Bunshin.



> I was just asking you to tell me how much chakra you think it takes to pull off Sakura's feats in the War.



Quite a bit of chakra. It just doesn't measure up to Naruto, even if it was impressive (and it was).



> Personally I think it takes less chakra to use Souzou Saisei Byakugo and summoning large Katsuya, than it does to create the massive Bijuudamas your describing.



Why. The only time we saw this Katsuyu in enhancing jutsu in action, it put Tsunade in a coma. 

When Naruto had ripped out the majority of 50% Kurama's chakra, it still had enough left to use Super Bijudama...



> But even if we go with your scenario, your describing at least a high diff win, with Naruto pouring all of Kurama's chakra into a massive Bijuudama we've never seen before and than needing SM even after that to finish off Sakura.



That wouldn't be high difficulty, because Naruto wouldn't suffer any injuries and would still have plenty of juice left.

Though this point really depends on one's personal definition of difficulty, so we may have to agree to disagree on that.


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## Pirao (Nov 3, 2014)

Naruto anihilates. Why do you guys still humor Turrin and his BS?


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## Icegaze (Nov 3, 2014)

Turrin said:


> The way Kishi hypes people is temporal. Itachi's S4-Susano'o was one of the most difficult defenses to breach when BZ hyped him. But as more Techniques and abilities were revealed, that no longer held true. Sakura was roughly as strong as BM-Naruto and EMS-Sasuke, when she was hyped as such. However as more time passed and they gained more powers, this no longer held true. It's not a difficult concept to understand.
> 
> 
> Thank god you finally understand this concept.
> ...



any proof kishi hype is temporal 
Ei is then the fastest still 
no statement has disproved this 
You are solely basing sakura on hype and plot madness. who has her go from omg i am scared to fight even juubito to i can attack kayuya who is miles stronger. please its BS we just saw kishi show that enton+chidori is just about as strong as rasengan yet before chidori and rasengan clash as equals 
kishi is soo inconsistent that the globalism of feats must be used 
or 7 gated gai lol trolls minato and Ei wont even see 7 gated gai 

All has to be taken with a little perspective or like i said itachi remains invincible since he was never defeated while using V4 susanoo


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2014)

Rocky said:


> CST does emit a considerable amount of force, which is why Tsunade needed to enhance Katsuyu in the first place. However, it isn't like being hit by Bijudama, because that force is just a big push. Bijudama is not.


It's not just the force, but also objects like massive debree being sent flying into someone with that same force. As for how it stacks up to Bijuudama, it depends which one were comparing it to. 



> I don't know if that's even true, so can you give me a source for this point?


The fact that the skill is C-Rank in the DB tells us that it doesn't require a high amount of skill you just need the chakra.



> Though even if it is, why do you doubt Naruto of all people lacks the skill. His chakra control is masterful.


Yes I doubt him being able to shape all of Kurama's chakra into a single sphere.



> I don't. Naruto spams Bijudama. He was firing off humungous Bijudama with his chakra cut in half from Kage Bunshin.


KB doesn't cut his chakra in half in KCM/BM it's whatever portion of chakra they draw from the collective. Anyway I don't really remember BM-Naruto ever doing a Bijuudama larger than Flash-Bijuudama and then still doing tons of other stuff, heck I don't remember him doing Flash-Bijuudama and than doing tons of other stuff.



> Quite a bit of chakra. It just doesn't measure up to Naruto, even if it was impressive (and it was).


The point wasn't directed towards comparing her chakra to Naruto, you just keep saying she doesn't have enough chakra to do this and that, but I just don't see it based on her display of chakra in the Final battle, so I wanted to see if you could explain that.



> Why. The only time we saw this Katsuyu in enhancing jutsu in action, it put Tsunade in a coma.


This is just flat out not true. Tsunade used the Katsuya remote healing for let's say an hour (could have been more) before CST finally put her over the edge. And again Tsunade is not Sakura.



> When Naruto had ripped out the majority of 50% Kurama's chakra, it still had enough left to use Super Bijudama...


I don't think he ripped out a majority of 50% Kurama's chakra, considering the vast difference between KCM and BM. Anyway the Flash-Bijuudama was just as large, and that Bijuudama took Kurama down to next to no chakra. So even if we saw KCM-Naruto got 50% chakra out of Kurama, and Kurama had 50% left, that would be 2 FlashBijuudama and some other lesser techniques before being exhausted. Or 1 much larger than FlashBijuudama and some other minor techniques.



> That wouldn't be high difficulty, because Naruto wouldn't suffer any injuries and would still have plenty of juice left.
> 
> Though this point really depends on one's personal definition of difficulty, so we may have to agree to disagree on that.


You said use all of Kurama's chakra, so he wouldn't have plenty of juice left, he would have used most of his chakra and the strongest attack we've ever seen out of BM-Naruto.


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## Rocky (Nov 4, 2014)

Turrin said:


> It's not just the force, but also objects like massive debree being sent flying into someone with that same force. As for how it stacks up to Bijuudama, it depends which one were comparing it to.



I don't know what the basis is for CST damaging one target more than _any_ Bijudama.

CST's best feat is building-busting over a large area. Bijudama also affects a large area, except it's actually blown up impressive things, like Orochimaru's Three Gates.

...and that was the weakest Bijudama we've seen in the series.. 



> The fact that the skill is C-Rank in the DB tells us that it doesn't require a high amount of skill you just need the chakra.



It isn't really the summoning. It's the enhancing, unless that takes no skill either. 



> Yes I doubt him being able to shape all of Kurama's chakra into a single sphere.



Basis? Because I don't. Not with his chakra control feats. Every time he wants to make something bigger, he does so casually. 

There is really no evidence that he cannot at this point, and all the chakra control wank Kurama was giving him only leads me to believe that him being capable is more likely than the other way around.

If he really has trouble, he can just let Kurama take over his body and do it for him anyway.



> Anyway I don't really remember BM-Naruto ever doing a Bijuudama larger than Flash-Bijuudama and then still doing tons of other stuff, heck I don't remember him doing Flash-Bijuudama and than doing tons of other stuff.



Um, all of the stuff I listed earlier was done without healing.

Even in just Biju Mode, I linked you scans where he used a Biju-sized Bijudama, then a combined Bijudama that dwarfed two Biju, and he _still_ had enough chakra left to make Sage clones and use Continuous Bijudama. He had also used a bunch of other lesser but taxing jutsu, like Biju-enhanced Rasengan, Mini-Bijudama, partner enhancement, and Flash Flickers. He had even had his chakra _absorbed_ by Madara on top of everything.

Did you just not read?



> This is just flat out not true. Tsunade used the Katsuya remote healing for let's say an hour (could have been more) before CST finally put her over the edge. And again Tsunade is not Sakura.



Sakura has to summon a massive Katsuyu and protect it from a ridiculously stronger attack than CST, which is much more taxing than what Tsunade did in the Pain Arc, so we wouldn't even be debating if Sakura was Tsunade.



> I don't think he ripped out a majority of 50% Kurama's chakra, considering the vast difference between KCM and BM. Anyway the Flash-Bijuudama was just as large, and that Bijuudama took Kurama down to next to no chakra. So even if we saw KCM-Naruto got 50% chakra out of Kurama, and Kurama had 50% left, that would be 2 FlashBijuudama and some other lesser techniques before being exhausted. Or 1 much larger than FlashBijuudama and some other minor techniques.



Do you have an actual basis for your points? How do you know that the Bijudama emaciated Kurama used took him down to "next to nothing?"



> You said use all of Kurama's chakra, so he wouldn't have plenty of juice left, he would have used most of his chakra and the strongest attack we've ever seen out of BM-Naruto.



Naruto would have almost his entire personal, Uzumaki reserves left, as well as any Senjutsu chakra he wants to create. 

That is plenty.


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## thechickensage (Nov 4, 2014)

Hi all, new to the naruto forums (a little late i guess but whatever).  I came here from Turrin's youtube channel...

As far as i can tell there are a few main arguments for sakura:

1.  Slug summon
2.  Speed (bc she "blitzed" Kaguya)
3.  Her giant forehead's tiny seal

Does the slug not get equaled by naruto's frog summon?  Why is the slug such a "guaranteed win" vs Naruto?

As for speed blitzing Kaguya...Kaguya was simply flying upwards to avoid Naruto and Sasuke.  She was basically driven into a corner- into Sakura.  So it's not like Sakura straight up blitzed her, more like she saw a linear escape route, and put herself in the way.  If i step in front of a moving train, would you say that I BLITZED the train?  

I'm surprised people think Sakura would even be a match for Naruto.  And just cause sakura thought to herself "yay, i caught up, imma badass now!" doesnt mean that she's right...

PS: Hi turrin!


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## Turrin (Nov 4, 2014)

@Rocky

I'm going to table this until more of DBIV is translated, as there are a-lot of pages to do with Sakura's abilities and jutsu, almost like Kishi is trying to justify the statement about Sakura's strength. So anyway i'll wait till those are translated to pick up the convo


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## Rocky (Nov 5, 2014)

That's fine with me.


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## Rosencrantz (Nov 5, 2014)

Let's make it clear. I'll take away the Rikudou power ups to help here. 

She is significantly weaker than the BM/SM Naruto that was fighting the Juubi Jinchuriki on even footing with various different partners. Sometimes Sasuke. Sometimes Minato.

BM Naruto with just 5 minutes time defeated 4-5 bjuus after knocking away 5 bjuu damas. Sakura is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than this form of Naruto as well.

Now then for KCM Naruto. If I recall correctly, he tanked one of the strongest attacks ever seen in this manga, the Juubi's Super Kirin Spirit Bomb or whatever. While protecting the entire alliance. So it is not even like one can say, oh yeah a punch from Sakura will definitely even end him. More importantly, at full speed he performed a feat that only one man before had ever done, outright dodged his full speed, full intent to kill punch. Minato was the only person who showed to be able to that beforehand and the only person A considered faster than himself. Naruto showed to be at the very least a similar speed to the man that outright dodged amaterasu. Sakura has punched a Juubi clone then jumped up and came crashing down on it. She could summon Katsuya. Sakura's strength was compared to Tsunade's. Her taijutsu skill still has not shown to be 5 tier like Tsunade's. She has a byakugou like Tsunade. She is in effect, a less skilled Tsunade whose strength is chakra based and not actual strength. Thus Naruto could put her in a full nelson and she would not be able to get out since her strength is in her hits. A clone of KCM Naruto outmaneuvered the Sandaime Raikage in CQC and tagged him with a FRS. The same fate would befall Sakura. She has not shown speed/reflexes on the level of one of the Raikages. She gets stomped.

A clone of SM Naruto took down the Sandaime Raikage. A clone. This person who is weaker than Tsunade suffers the same fate.

Tldr;

Tsunade is stronger than Sakura. Tsunade is likely match for Base Naruto pre RS power-ups and could put up a fight against SM Naruto. That is the most one can hope for when it comes to Sakura.


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## maupp (Nov 14, 2014)

I can't believe people are arguing for Sakura here :rofl.

SAkura can't beat any version of Naruto. Base Naruto alone is enough to destroy her. How the hell does she get an argument against KCM Naruto. Someone who can probably own all 5 Kages put together .

Since when have people started fapping over Sakura anyway 

Sakura beating KCM Naruto . The madness in this place is hilarious


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