# Hippo vs Lion vs Bear



## Dariustwinblade (May 12, 2012)

Inspired by Tiger vs Lion since Lion won. Lets try the king of the beast against a K9 and a Herbivore with slight Omnivorous tendancy.


A fully Grown Grizzle Bear, an Alpha Lion and a Alpha Hippo are in a three way caged match.


The Hippo is bloodlusted, sex crazed and hungry to the point where is will eat meat or resort to cannabilism(yes hippos under some circumstance will eat meat and eachother.)

The Bear and Lion are also bloodlusted and enraged.


Who wins this.


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## AfterGlow (May 12, 2012)

The hippo obliterates the other two


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 12, 2012)

only evidence from 150+ valid sources allowed for animal fights from now on




> Alpha Hippo


all hippos are alpha


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## Moonbeam Funk (May 12, 2012)

All I know is if this happened in real life no sane human being would be willing to stay close enough to watch the fight. This is pretty ridiculous shit. Onto the actual match, I think the hippo or bear takes this.


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## AfterGlow (May 12, 2012)

Seriously, the hippo steps on the Lion and bites the bear, impaling at least one important organ. It weighs more than the other two combined, and I doubt neither the bear or the lion would be able to fatally wound it by trying to scratch or bite it, the skin is fairly thick.


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## Dariustwinblade (May 12, 2012)

Where is fathertime when you want to see him in action,


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 12, 2012)

you tryin to summon the lion king


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## Raid3r2010 (May 12, 2012)

The hippo take down both without much trouble.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (May 12, 2012)

Hippo eats them.


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## Roronoa-zoro (May 12, 2012)

You should've included a Siberian Tiger instead of a Lion, since you know they actually fight brown bears in Siberia and sometimes kill them to, not that it would matter here since Grizzly's are larger than those, and even a Siberian Tiger the largest and biggest of the Cat family, has no chance against a Grizzly.

Anyway, I see Grizzly having a small chance against a Hippo if he avoids the Hippo's huge mouth and gets into position to attack from behind, but I still see the Hippo winning this 19 times out of 20.


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## tashtin (May 12, 2012)

Hippo impales the bear with 20inch long teeth. The bear crushes the lions skull with a casual swipe.


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 12, 2012)

the lion is not happy about this thread


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## tashtin (May 12, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> the lion is not happy about this thread



They really are the pussies of the feline kingdom. All roar no bite.


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## Dariustwinblade (May 12, 2012)

A large pack of 12-40 wolves>>A pride of 5-12 lions


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## Urouge (May 12, 2012)

tashtin said:


> They really are the pussies of the feline kingdom. All roar no bite.



lol the lion is strongest feline on earth


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## Urouge (May 12, 2012)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> You should've included a Siberian Tiger instead of a Lion, since you know they actually fight brown bears in Siberia and sometimes kill them to, not that it would matter here since Grizzly's are larger than those, and even a Siberian Tiger the largest and biggest of the Cat family, has no chance against a Grizzly.
> 
> Anyway, I see Grizzly having a small chance against a Hippo if he avoids the Hippo's huge mouth and gets into position to attack from behind, but I still see the Hippo winning this 19 times out of 20.



well actually there has been record of lion killing siberian tigers so he would do better than the tiger here even though he has no chance to win


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## Urouge (May 12, 2012)

Dariustwinblade said:


> A large pack of 12-40 wolves>>A pride of 5-12 lions



Not really depend if the lion are all male.


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## tashtin (May 12, 2012)

Kenji boy said:


> lol the lion is strongest feline on earth



Granted they pack the biggest punch (swipe) but they still get murked by a tiger. 

Pound for pound I would even go as far to say leopards, panthers, cougars and other big cat species would own the lion,


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## themg3 (May 12, 2012)

Make it both the lion and bear against the hippo and it still stomps,


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## Waking Dreamer (May 12, 2012)

I want to see the hippo vs the one-of-a-kind Lion Pride that specializes in hunting adult elephants. 

[YOUTUBE]5Gc2MBpfqGc[/YOUTUBE]


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## Doommaker (May 13, 2012)

Elephants solo.


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## feebas_factor (May 13, 2012)

tashtin said:


> Granted they pack the biggest punch (swipe) but *they still get murked by a tiger. *
> 
> Pound for pound I would even go as far to say leopards, panthers, cougars and other big cat species would own the lion,







fathertime and his absurdly long and detailed posts on the topic beg to differ.


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## Huey Freeman (May 13, 2012)

[YOUTUBE]xjG_6BxYiU4[/YOUTUBE]


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## tashtin (May 13, 2012)

feebas_factor said:


> fathertime and his absurdly long and detailed posts on the topic beg to differ.



Majority of the links were bullshit, pictures and blogs.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2012)

Hippo stomps here. Lions can't even hurt it, and it is much stronger than a bear.


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## Thdyingbreed (May 13, 2012)

The hippo takes stomps it takes prides of Lions to take down a single Hippopotamus and thats rare.

Here's an example.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r13uJAXXz6I[/YOUTUBE]


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## Deleted member 45015 (May 13, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the Hippo annihilates them both.


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## fathertime (May 20, 2012)

Oh, wow. Hippo an bear eh? Well I guess I can present a few for an educational purpose, I guess I'll start it off with these again here some account's of lion's killing polar and grizzley bear's...
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1.1902 lion named roosevlet killed peary the polar bear.
2.John heliot?s circus lion named brutus kills polar bear.

3. lion kills polar bear 1955 By Alfred Court.[Book]Pages 131-132,
Link removed 
4. lion kills polar bear Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, [Book] 
page 204-205.
Link removed 
5.1893 Pezon in limoges, Leo the lion kills polar bear
6.Boltimore the lion kills russian grizzley

7. Lion stale mate?s enormous grizzley bear 
THE OAKLAND TRIBUNE APRIL 1, 1895 "A DRAW" PARNELL FIGHTS A BIG BEAR. 
THE LOS ANGELES TIMES APRIL 2, 1895 "BRUIN THROWS LEO
8. Lion kills bruin the grizzly bear 

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Here's what the california grizzley book say's=
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At half past two the work of driving the bulls from the corral into the pens opening on the arena was begun by Mr. Chappell, track horseman and tournament rider. He was assisted by bullfighter Juan Herrerra, who wielded a red mantle when the animals proved unusually refractory. When the bulls were safely penned the tips of their horns were sawed off and the ends rasped smooth.
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In early days, a bear and bull fight was advertised to come off at Coloma. No Spanish bulls being at hand, a lazy,good-natured old fellow, that crossed the plains some years previously, and had since lounged around the street at will, was selected to fight the bear, much to the disgust of the assembled multitude. The fight was very short, the bull killing the bear in two or three minutes, by goring him through.
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Normally the bull was lassoed just before the fight, his horns sawed off, and the fight pretty well taken out of him before he was turned into the ring. Because the bear was so valuable, his loss was often not risked.
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When the fights became under american control the bull won nearly every single time and eventually the fight was considered a mismatch, and bears were then placed with donkeys. All in all I am not very convinced of a bears ability to kill large dangerous herbivores. Horses have broken grizzly bears jaws and defeated and chased grizzly bears off.
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Although it does have a lion and bear fight, it is little known on the condition of the lion, was it female or a male it dosent specify, because it was evident due to having the bear as california's flag at a point an time, they as shown how they alway's gave a handicap to the bear with most other animal's, so that lion fight sound's staged, which probably wasnt even a contender lion. 
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Bear's have never been known as striker's, they use there claw's for digging an there paw's for pushing, in fighting speed they are pretty slow, an surcumb to animal's that's 1/10th the size of them. Bear's have been killed by wolve's, bison, bull's, boar's, lion's, tiger's, jaguar's, croc's, wolverine's, puma's an many other's as well. 
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But due to there anatomy...Bear's are just considered sumo wrestler's, there bite's are way weaker, because of there biology to eat plant's his anaotomy of there back teeth are almost alike to human's, they are all straight an the same size of the back to the front, not including the fang's. while big cat's, have back teeth are shaped having 2 big molar's welded in point's for breaking bone's, 
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Here's a bear's skull showing the back teeth's built...

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An here's a lion's skull showing the lion's back teeth are bigger for a harder bite...
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It is known that is why wolve's an hyena, have a more harder bite than a dog, because there teeth are bigger an denser, so they can take more pressure, which was exploited even on gorilla's bite's saying since there neck muscle's were so big, people assumed they could bite harder, which was not porportioned with the density of there teeth an what they are made to eat, if they could bite as hard as hyena's an snapping turtle's then they would shatter there own teeth everytime they bit that hard, due to there teeth are only a little densar than a human's.
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I alway's thought before a bear was the brute killer, but the more I digged up I learned he's only big due to diet's of being an omnivore, there are more component's in nutrient's that alter size than just meat. A mixture an variety of different food's is what give's them there size, look at human's we too can hit the 1,000 pound range because of that. But it isint for reason's of being the biggest and baddest, but for more of what our biology is made to do. Again Bear's are sumo wrestler's they were never considered striker's all the hill billy an red neck story's of bear's dicapitating mooses an caribou are bullcrap, they didnt even see the incident only the after math, which bear's open's up the moose's throat to get to the back of the tounge to devour it whole, which is a dilicasy for bear's. there are probably more account's of Puma's killing bear's than tiger's I guess it's a mintality thing, there is a video of a puma punking an submitting a jaguar in a reserve so maybe the Moantain lion is the pit bull of the cat world. 
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Yes, in the same book california grizzley, there was 6 account's of just puma's killing adult grizzly bear's, that's hell of impressive, due to puma's can be only 1/10th the size of adult male grizzley's an still kill them, pheeww...that is a statment of the superiorty big cat's have over bear's. I would favor a full grown male grizzley against a tiger but here's this site, showing a few predation account's of tiger's killing bear's here...


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## Neo-jplaya (May 20, 2012)

there is a reason why Nile Crocodiles don't fuck with Hippos.

much less berserk ones. it solos.


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## fathertime (May 20, 2012)

Hippo's have been a part of lion's predation diet's for thousand's of year's. Hippo's have one of the hardest bite's in the animal kingdom and can weigh up to a whopping 8,000 pound's also has killed more human's than any other animal in africa. But there is a trait of fear, the same way most human's are afraid of bug's, the same way an elephant is startled an fear's rat's is the same way hippo's fear lion's... hippo's only strike out of fear an defense when it come's to lion's attacking them. Here's a few picture's of lion's killing hippo's...
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Link removed

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Link removed


air jordan 11 sale-Designed for sport,crafted for life

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When it come's to bear's against hippo's it's a no brainer, bear's use only the concept of sumo wrestler's... being they are so big that is the only way they take on other predator's sucsussfuly with size an intimidation, yet that's not how big cat's take down prey, they use tactic's in the least amount of way of emitting injury to themself's. While bear's are quite foolish to try an take the full impact shown how bull's rush in bear's plant there feet down and wrestle small cattle, yet when bull's are full grown as done in the california grizzley book day's, when american's set it on fair ground's an left there horn's an vitality at a 100% from the start... spanish fighting bull's tossed even the biggest of bear's like rag doll's, a scene so grutest women even some men fainted on site an horror of the bear's cry's an bellow's that echoed threw the canyon's. So in same fashion a hippo would out muscle even the 2,000 pound bear's record's of the polar bear. Again lion's bone denisty ratio has been confirmed to be exactly as dense as alaskan brown bear's at ratio 1.27,  so lion's durabiltie are just the same as if it was bear vs bear.
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Again bear's fair at the pretty low end when it come's to fighting, they are a standard hunter when it come's to your average caribou or moose but against other top predator's the bear's themselve's show, they know that avoiding a fight would be the best bet of survival, but against a full grown male hippo who want's to fight, no bear on earth would even favor 3/10 for the bear it's more of 8/10 for the hippo on the bear an 7/10 time's having the lion kill the hippo and lastly 7/10 for the lion killing the bear.
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Unless someone else can present more account's then I can decide to change my opinion, which I already mentioned the california grizzley so please if anyone has any other's i'd like to learn as well, so thrwo them my way.


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## Waking Dreamer (May 20, 2012)

^ So are you saying a Lion would win against a hippo in this battle...? 

And basically for those who didnt read fathertime's posts:

_Bear vs Hippo:* 2/10*
Lion vs Bear: *7/10*
Lion vs Hippo: *7/10*_



Also, Elephants afraid of mice/rats...that's just a myth isnt it?


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## Thdyingbreed (May 20, 2012)

fathertime is ignoring the fact that it takes a whole pride of lions to take down a single Hippopotamus and it's a rare for them to kill them.

A single Lion doesn't have a chance in hell of killing a healthy adult Hippopotamus.


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## fathertime (May 20, 2012)

Walking dreamer^ 
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Yup, that's what I'm saying. 
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It might seem it's only protrayed in toon's an of corse a elephant with nerve's of steel would splat a room full of mice, but no it's not myth. They really do get startled from mice, just look at fear factor people are getting paid thosand's of dollar's to eat bug's, if your not accustomed to it as some culture's are, they still vomit on site XD just the site an thinking of eating bug's, they puke there brain's out. Alot of animal's have phobia's, like human's tiger's dont like shiney silvery object's, even if you had a army of tiger's a person with a shiney suit of armor can scare them off.
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But for the hippo's its the same formilty, even if the hippo was game to fight a desperate raging lion, it's just the way lion's use tactic's to kill, is superior than a large animal just throwing a fit like king kong beating his chest. In other word's... if you like give me a few hour's an I'll qwadruple the amount of picture's of lion's killing hippo's to maybe around a 100-200, meaning if your so sure it would be the other way around, then you would have to match the amount of kill's by having that much hippo's kill that much lion's. Which I highly dought you can. Same goes for bear's vs lion's. In order for you to asset that, that would be the outcome the account's is what seperate's fact from assumption.


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## Akatora (May 20, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> ^ So are you saying a Lion would win against a hippo in this battle...?
> 
> And basically for those who didnt read fathertime's posts:
> 
> ...



Calling it fear might be a bit much, but mythbusters took it to the test and they did react to mice by changing directions.

can't remember much from that episode though, Could be survival instincts kicking in like don't step next to a snake, tarantula, scorpion etc is a given for us.



Link removed


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## fathertime (May 21, 2012)

Bear's were also part of the roman arena's, stated in these scripture's an remnent's that are recorded an disiphered into book's here...
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1. ?Next, the arena was lowered to feature combat between them -- Romans cheered as lions tore apart tigers, an went up against bears, leopards against wolves. It goes without saying that the Romans had never heard of animal rights.? 
~{Ken Spiro; WorldPerfect}
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2. {The Memoirs of Cleopatra} 
?They took on tigers, bears, bulls, and wild boars. Usually the lion won.[Book]page 284? 
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3."Another subspecies very closely related to the Asian lion - the Barbary lion or Panthera leo leo - became extinct in the wild in 1922 (in Morocco). This animal the Barbary lion had been the dominant animal in the blood sports of the Roman arenas." 
~Martin Seyer's dissertation (synopsis), Vienna University
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History of the Roman day?s arena. Historical artifact's?
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Link removed 


fragments 



fragments 
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So it's evident with these historical document's, bear's were used widely in the arena as well, an there's a few remnent's stating that lion's were the dominant animal in the arena, also exact wording's saying they went up against bear's an usally won. In those era's, there were around 600 of each beast that carried on for month's at a time, wave after wave of animal's fighting an killing each other, so if we take even the most lowest average of 600 of each that would imply that 1 is over the middle number, so maybe like all together 300 indivdiual lion's fought 300 individual bear's if they won majority than 150 would be the stale mate mark and 151 at the very lowest would be the account number of majority, but they pitted different amount's per emporer an I'm not to sure exactly what number is to be used, because ton's of site's have different estimate's in how much of a whole fought each other.


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## Golden Circle (May 21, 2012)

I voted for Lions before it was cool.


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## Cygnus45 (May 22, 2012)

> guess I'll start it off with these again here some account's of lion's killing polar and grizzley bear's..



Peary the polar bear was incredibly underweight, yet he gave the lion the fight of his life.

As for the rest, bears in captivity easily become lazy and lack the killer instinct of the wild, whereas even domestic cats have the natural ferocity of a 100% carnivore. Also, in most of those stories the lion got the drop on the bear (which didn't expect to get attacked since they were all circus performers). Lions tend to be dicks like that.

I'm not saying any old bear will easily kill any lion, but the evidence you're using to give a verdict on this matchup is unfair. Polar bears and Grizzlies outweigh lions by 3 4-fold.



> Here's a few picture's of lion's killing hippo's



What I'm seeing are photos of lions eating the carcasses of hippo's. It is laughable to suggest a single lion has a chance against a hippo that isn't old, sick, and dying.



> So it's evident with these historical document's, bear's were used widely in the arena as well, an there's a few remnent's stating that lion's were the dominant animal in the arena, also exact wording's saying they went up against bear's an usally won



Funny because i've heard many posters on many forums say the exact opposite (that bears casually killed lions with a single swipe to the skull).


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## Louis-954 (May 22, 2012)

The Hippo fuckstomp.


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## Lina Inverse (May 22, 2012)

I still see nothing that prevents the Hippo from going Juggernaut mode and steamrolling the two


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## Uncle Phantom (May 22, 2012)

Fathertime wins again


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## fathertime (May 22, 2012)

To: Cygnus45
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Huh? Dude we have a 1,000 pound human's, so by your standard's a 400 pound human is under weight? XD Dude not every bear is going to be 2,200 pound's... they varie from reigon to different district's, some average 500-700 some 800-1,000 an so forth. 
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An by your standard's {Only Bear's} will lose there killer instinct and a lion would retain it threw out being a performer? XD Okay dude if you say so. And Only the brutus account got the drop on the polar bear, but happen to everyone's formailty of being the world's biggest and strongest predator, huh, where does that come in? 
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Bear's out weigh lion's 3-4 fold? That's what I'm talking about, that's complete B.S if we are take-ing the average number of all three bear's have only 100-200 pound's on lion's, you'd only be taking indvidual account's of weight's not over all weight's, even kodiak's who can reach a 1,500 usally stick around 600-700 as adult's as {Average}. Even if you'd take the biggest of all three of lion's, polar bear's and kodiak's you'd get bear's only 2x bigger at best... lion's can grow huge as well, that's the thing with you guy's... you tend to be bia's an choose weight's of properganda, of lion's top out at 550 and bear's 1,000, Huh! Again lion's can get big as well, here...
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- 900 pound lion 

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800 pound lion named ponto fight?s off 2 tiger?s


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826 pound lion named simba

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800 pound lion named mubasa 



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826 pound lion 
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800 pound lion attack?s tarzan
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2? 800 pound lion?s 1 named Prince an 1 named clarence
Link removed
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Documented Lion weights.
385 kg Botswana - 
335 kg Angola (1973) G. Gladney 
333 kg Sudan The J. K. Roberts 
333 kg Kenya M. J. Timmins 
328 kg - Mapogo
324 kg - Tanzania J.
320 kg - Trance bar/var C. V. Merriman 
277 kg - Swaziland (1919) - 
272 kg - Namibia (1964) - 
272 kg - Kenya (1993) - 
318 kg - Somalia A. M. Toulmin 
318 kg - Rhodesia H. J. Pratt 
318 kg - Mozambique  
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Carcasses of hippo's? There's a few of the alive hippo and the dead hippo with the exact same lion... the site's I got them from have the whole story of the tourist wittnessing the event. Huh! Typical, They just {had} to be sick or dieing eh?...Are you really that nieve? It's stated everywhere hippo's are part of lion's predation diet, so why would you think I'm just skimming on the top, like I'm presenting somthing rare... When you know yourself, all you have to do is type in the "magic word's" of lion's predating on hippo's and Bam!!! You'll have a chance to find thousand's of account's.
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A single paw swipe can kill a lion by crushing it's skull? XD Okay, were in cartoon land again, first of all... post those account's, and not the califorina grizzley book, which I've read. Showing how they were utterly bia's for the bear and gave a direct handicap to bear's {stated in the book}, of sawing off bull's horn's, using a wild bear on a broken abaonded lion form a cricus, an many other thing's by taking the fight out of the bull's first and tie-ing up leaches to peg's of the bear's foe's, stating bear's were so expensive they never risked losing money and gave huge amount's of leverage to there animal they choosed to put on there flag. When in that exact same book, almost at the end , stated... that when american settler's insisted in keeping the fight fair, even the biggest of bear's were thrown around the arena like rag doll's, and there's even 6 account's of puma's 1/10th the size of the bear, blitzing bear's like lightning and coming out with the kill in the book california grizzley, now if there's 6 account's in the california grizzley book and there an 8 account's on yuku, of Puma's killing adult grizzley bear's. Why would it be harder for a lion who is around 4x bigger, stronger a supreme fighter, one who has battle armor, than the puma an just so happen's to have the title the King of beast for thousand's of year's... have a hard time dispatching bear's 1 on 1, that mostly every artilery the bear has are more prone for vegatation, claw's stated by zoologist more for digging than killing, weight and bulk for more of surviving winter quarter's than for sumo wrestling, hmm, tell me how is that not possible?
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Again, exactly how can a bear break a lion's skull with a single swipe? When lion's bone density's are the exact same number ratio at 1.27 I have the graph of scientist study's showing that lion's bone "marrow's" are less in the bone's outer wall's which maintain's it's durabilty. Yet, it give's lieniage for faster and stronger acrobatical speed's, without losing output power. While most, and I mean most bear's bone marrow's are flooded with cavity's which weaken it's durabilty, they must have bigger bone's to support there weight , but they are not densar.
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What's really funny is, the source's you'll present {If you present them} wont have an ounce of credabilty to them, they will go more on the same formailty of what? 
[Poke-mon] of... go Pikachu, use lighting on squirtle who has 100 HP....~~~ direct hit 120 hit point's, 
IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!!! [Squitle faint's]  XD XD
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Good luck there....


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## Cygnus45 (May 23, 2012)

> Huh? Dude we have a 1,000 pound human's, so by your standard's a 400 pound human is under weight? XD Dude not every bear is going to be 2,200 pound's... they varie from reigon to different district's, some average 500-700 some 800-1,000 an so forth.



We are talking about an adult, male, _polar bear_. If it weighs 600 lbs it is underweight. End of story. I know some black and brown bears can weigh that much, even in the wild, but the bigger ones like grizzlies, kodiaks, etc usually weigh more than that (even the females).



> An by your standard's {Only Bear's} will lose there killer instinct and a lion would retain it threw out being a performer? XD Okay dude if you say so. And Only the brutus account got the drop on the polar bear, but happen to everyone's formailty of being the world's biggest and strongest predator, huh, where does that come in?



Lions are 100% carnivores. It is extremly difficult to tame a lion even if u get one from birth. A bear is omnivorous and if u train one and toss it a slab of meat every now and then, it usually won't get sudden urges to rip somethings head off.

Again, I cite the domestic cat: they are _programmed_ to take things down and kill them. As kittens they beat the shit out of each other and instinctively chase strings (which resemble snakes).

A bear that lived it's whole life sitting on its ass and eating grapes is not going to have that killer instinct.



> Bear's out weigh lion's 3-4 fold? That's what I'm talking about, that's complete B.S if we are take-ing the average number of all three bear's have only 100-200 pound's on lion's, you'd only be taking indvidual account's of weight's not over all weight's, even kodiak's who can reach a 1,500 usally stick around 600-700 as adult's as {Average}. Even if you'd take the biggest of all three of lion's, polar bear's and kodiak's you'd get bear's only 2x bigger at best... lion's can grow huge as well, that's the thing with you guy's... you tend to be bia's an choose weight's of properganda, of lion's top out at 550 and bear's 1,000, Huh! Again lion's can get big as well, here...



You of all people calling me biased, lol.

I never said lions can't weight more than 500-600 lbs. They rarely do unless they're in captivity or are some hulking binge eating alpha male:

lion:

With _some_ males exceeding 250 kg (550 lb) in weight,[4]

notice the "some"? In other words, it's an exception for a lion to weigh more than that.

black bears are some of the smallest of all bears, yet they weigh about as much as the heaviest lions:

Adult males typically weigh between 57–250 kg (130–550 lb)

The biggest wild American black bear ever recorded was a male from New Brunswick, shot in November 1972, that weighed 409 kg (900 lb)

Another notably outsized wild black bear weighed just over 363 kg (800 lb)

Female kodiaks can weigh more than the average male lion:

Size range for females is from 225 kg (500 lbs) to 315 kg (700 lbs)

Mature males average 480–533 kg (1,058–1,175 lb) over the course of the year,[7] and can weigh up to 680 kg (1500 lbs) at peak times

The AVERAGE kodiak is usually TWICE as heavy as a lion.

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't an occasional lion that weighs more than 500 lbs, but that is an exception. Simba looks fat as hell in that picture and wouldn't be nearly as agile as his lighter bretheren. More proof lions shouldn't weigh that much.



> Carcasses of hippo's? There's a few of the alive hippo and the dead hippo with the exact same lion... the site's I got them from have the whole story of the tourist wittnessing the event. Huh! Typical, They just {had} to be sick or dieing eh?...Are you really that nieve? It's stated everywhere hippo's are part of lion's predation diet, so why would you think I'm just skimming on the top, like I'm presenting somthing rare... When you know yourself, all you have to do is type in the "magic word's" of lion's predating on hippo's and Bam!!! You'll have a chance to find thousand's of account's.



I found two stories of two lion prides taking down rhinos:



When you're outnumbered 4-6 to 1, of course the other side has a chance.

I can't find ANYTHING on "lions hunting/predating hippos" on google.

Didn't u see the vid people posted of a bunch of lions jumping on a hippo and failing to do fuck all?



> A single paw swipe can kill a lion by crushing it's skull? XD Okay, were in cartoon land again, first of all... post those account's, and not the califorina grizzley book, which I've read.



(at the shoulder) is 3.5 to 5 ft (1.1 to 1.5 m).

"in historical pitted fights fought in Canada, lions were reputed to last less than 5 mins against adult bears. Even small bears like sloth bears can hold their own against adult lions, with the lion coming off much worse"



"Eventually, and at considerable cost, African lions were brought in to raise the stakes. The most fierce of the adult males was sent in whilst the grizzly was already waiting in the pits. The lion was known for bravely charging straight in and looked good for the money, but the grizzly killed a male lion almost as easily as he'd killed the bull."

80% of the people here think a grizzly would def win:



and here (polar bear):





> that mostly every artilery the bear has are more prone for vegatation, claw's stated by zoologist more for digging than killing, weight and bulk for more of surviving winter quarter's than for sumo wrestling, hmm, tell me how is that not possible?



Why do you keep downplaying a bear's claws? Those things could rip open an alligator hide.



> Again, exactly how can a bear break a lion's skull with a single swipe? When lion's bone density's are the exact same number ratio at 1.27 I have the graph of scientist study's showing that lion's bone "marrow's" are less in the bone's outer wall's which maintain's it's durabilty. Yet, it give's lieniage for faster and stronger acrobatical speed's, without losing output power. While most, and I mean most bear's bone marrow's are flooded with cavity's which weaken it's durabilty, they must have bigger bone's to support there weight , but they are not densar.



Um, no. every fucking article i've read says bears have stronger bone density and can take hits better.


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## Waking Dreamer (May 23, 2012)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Fathertime wins again



So you have no doubt one lion can take out a full grown Hippo more times than not...?


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## fathertime (May 24, 2012)

To: Cygnus45
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Dude, your only getting your weight's from secondary site's, people who havent even seen a bear, only giving estimation's, while on the other hand, I give them with zoologist and scientist that weigh them on yearly {census} check's.
What's this, you say black bear's average only 250? You dont say...
imposition 
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Adult male black bear next to a lion, 
Link removed
Wow, that bear is like 2-4 time's bigger like you said...
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XD
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Huh? What's that over there? Are you saying that brown bear's only average 350-600 as adult's, No way! Okay I'll go tell the mook, that think's 1,000 pound's is average...
imposition

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Adult brown bear next to a lion...
Link removed
The "Brown" bear dosent look nearly as big as you claim, when they are actually side by side, now do they? Yup, do I hear an over exaggeration'? It would seem so.
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lion's are 100% Carnivore? Dude, I dont know what to make out of that. What did you want me to say to that? Uhh... Blue...green...5...12...banana...truck's??? That's what you sound like dude, a giant bucket of confusion, every animal is unpredictable but christian the lion, or the lion that was saved by that ladie, or the hundred's of acting lion's in show bisness, or the ten's of thousand's that were in circuses have lived there life out without mauling some one, prove's there gentleness, if you like stating stuff I'm pretty sure not even you can comprehend or understand, than pretty much I'll just keep with saying random stuff like, unicorn's... cloud's...basketball...hippi's. XD XD
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So you go to google, and look for predation's on hippo's have a 10 second scan and go skipping down the road singing deck the hall's... XD Dude look around if I could see it, you should be able to find it. Here's more I added to the list on hippo's being killed by lion's...
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Link removed

imposition


Link removed




(at the shoulder) is 3.5 to 5 ft (1.1 to 1.5 m). 

Link removed 



Link removed 
Link removed 
Link removed 
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The list is growing and growing, yet the whole debate is prone to who would kill who more, right? Can you match mine? I hope so...because it's still growing and some have cub's doing the job. XD
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Dude first of all, you replyed to a quote of mine, which I mention the california grizzley book and than you post a Biologist mentioning the "California grizzley book" ? XD Not to bright are we?
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Okay so since I mentioned, that's pretty much all you'll be able to scavange already, I'll fill you in on detail's of what is in the book. Now the book {state's}, They gave every leverage to the bear, because of the costly price's for them. They state they sawed off the bull's horn's and exashested the animal's, before meeting the fresh ready bear. Why did you leave out the essiential wording's stated in the book? Oh, that's right... you didnt read the book XD It stated the bear killed the lion as a cat would a rat, yet it state's that they used a abandid broken circuss lion...why would a circuss, abandon a lion, they cost around 700$$$ that's huge amount's of cash for back in the day's, dont you think somthing was wrong with that lion? I'll leave it up to other's to answer that, because knowing you...You'll just say, ahhh... that lion was in his prime, a killer, and was healthy to a tee. XD You used lion(s) the book only mention's 1 account...Why didnt your biologist mention that in that same book, there was 6 account's of Puma's that killed adult grizzley bear's? Must have slipped his mine or maybe ...juuust maybe... he didnt read it either and is only like you, talking hear say and bullcrap. Or how about the part the book state's when american settler's insisted in keeping the fight {fair} bull's tossed around even the biggest of grizzley bear's like rag doll's, when they set the other animal's free, of there peg they were usually tied to...horses kicked and broke the bear's jaw's in a single kick, the bear's were starting to lose so rutinely and gambler's lost out in so much money, due to keeping the fight's {fair} bear's were only then pitted with donkey's, until the sport died out. Hmm... you didnt bother to mention all of those? 
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Donkey's!!! XD XD
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an what's with getting so desperate and bringing in yahoo, or smoothharold where there isint an ounce of credabilty to them, only elementry kid's talking up a storm on there favorite animal, couldent you tell by there poor grammar and punctuation, nah... you couldent. Why? Because you were so into saving face, you just had to come back with something. An what do you mean I'm bashing the bear's artilery's such as claw's and teeth? I'm not... the animal expert's, scientist and zoologist have stated bear's have a weaker bite due to physiology of there jaw's and teeth size compared to tiger's and lion's... they not me... state there claw's are more for digging than killing, that's basic logic right? or maybe you dont know what's logic...I dont know, I really dont care if you do or dont...What do bear's do in the wild, do they eat vegatation more or meat more? That's exactly why I agree with zoologist, they use there claw's to dig up clam's and stashed food's, an use there power to move big dead log's to eat bug's. More than for ripping at other animal's.
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Huh? You questioning my statement's of bone density? Okay dude, ask an you shall be recive... here you can stuff this up your ass...
imposition
Oh what's that? Does lion's and Alaskan brown bear's have identical bone denisty"s? XD XD
Here's more explaining how strong lion's bone's are, here...
imposition
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Oh what's that... lion's have densar bone's in certain part's of the body? XD XD How the hell would a bear be more durable? Lion's have mane's, the bear's fur are no thicker than siberian tiger's, who both were killed by lion's... yeah, male's too... yeah, adult's too... yeah, pass a 1,000 pound's too...yeah, on equal term's too...yeah, yeah, yeah YEAH!!!
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XD Whoop's, I got carried away... in the moment baby!!! XD Huh! You still havent matched my account's yet, only saying... ohhh... they were under weight, when even peary the polar bear was still heviar than roosevelt the lion, an only peary was the small one...look at alfred court's polar bear that was killed by his lion here...

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Look how insanely big that polar bear is, that's pass 1,400 pound's easy...look at the size he is... he's bigger and taller than the lion, who is on a pedastal 2-3 feet higher than his, the one on the left was the bear the lion killed, stated in his book here...
Link removed
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From a nother lion who Mr. Court immideatly replaced the next week with another that was attacked and survived, but that polar bear, dident ever perform again.
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The one's your mentioning of small... are small because they are young, which still all the bear's I have mentioned were adult's male and female. Your only best bet was velox, but I have the root source saying that polar bear only killed a performing seal and maybe with the word's perhap's have injured 2 lion's in 2 different occaision's which still why would they say perhap's?, It probably was a minor scrap that's why, not worth even making head line's. 
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What's the difference between my link's and your link's??? Mine's are credaitable to a tee and have exactly what I state, your's huh! your's have a bunch of kaka mimi joke's who leave out detail's, who are no where near even a petty expert, only kid's talking story's and data beyound random and selective to more of just secoundary source's of a person who hasent even seen a bear outside of a zoo. XD


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 24, 2012)

you can all debate with fathertime all day or accept your defeat early


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## fathertime (May 24, 2012)

To: Cgnyus45
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Dont count me out just yet...
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9.) "A FIGHT TO A FINISH BETWEEN A BEAR AND PANTHER
By S. C. Turnbo

I am told that one who never witnessed a struggle between a bear and panther can hardly realize the strength put forth and the ferocity exhibited by these animals. A combat between them is so desperate, and to watch them as they tear each other?s flesh with teeth and claws and see the blood stream from countless wounds and hear their ferocious snarls and growls is indeed blood curdling. Though the writer never witnessed such a sight but from accounts given him by settlers and hunters many encounters of this kind have occurred and I have written down a few of the more interesting accounts to show the awful struggles between these animals for the mastery when they get in each other?s way. Among these is one given me by Mr. Gideon Baughman who lived on Crooked Creek seven miles below Harrison, Arkansas. He related the story to me in July, 1896, a short while before his death. He told the story in the following way. "When I was a boy my parents lived in Iron County, Missouri. I was just old enough to take a lively interest in hunting for game. The country there was new then with plenty of small game as well as bears and panther. One time while hunting near a narrow creek or slough called Cranes Pond I heard loud growls which evidently were produced by enraged animals. The noise seemed to be at the pond. Though only a boy my curiosity was aroused to know what sort of wild animals had met and were about to get into a fight. Advancing cautiously until I saw what they were I was surprised to see a bear and panther on a log which lay across the creek where the water was about 25 feet deep. The animals had approached the log from opposite sides of the creek and they both wanted to cross over on the log but each was in the other?s way. When I came in sight of them the bear was sitting on the log over the water and the panther was on the other end of the log advancing slowly toward the bear. Both animals seemed to be in a rage and were growling fiercely. When the panther got in reach of the bear the latter struck it a terrific blow with his paw which sent it into the water with a splash. But quickly recovering it swam out on the same side it started from and leaping on the log walked fearlessly up to the bear again. But bruin was ready and with another severe blow sent the panther back into the water, but immediately it swam back to the same bank it started from. When the bear struck it the second time the former dropped on his feet and walked across the log. As the panther leaped up the bank the bear had reached the end of the log and here they met on the bank and without further ceremony both animals clinched together in a savage combat.

It was terrible to witness. They growled, whined, bit and clawed until their hair was red with blood. Neither one seemed to want to show the white feather. After they had fought several minutes the bear caught the panther in his hug in such a way that the panther?s back lay against the bear?s breast. Then another scene followed. The bear sat on his haunches and as he tightened his embrace his antagonist surged desperately to release itself. For a while it seemed that the bear would come out victorious, but with a desperate struggle the panther succeeded in turning its body face to face with the bear. Then ensued the greatest scene of the fight. The panther with the sharp claws on its hind feet ripped the bear open and let out its entrails. At this bruin uttered a piteous noise and seemed to realize that he was done for, and with a last effort he crushed the panther so hard that it was unable to make further resistance. The bear released his hold and both animals sank to the ground in the agony of death. Bruin died first but his enemy lived but a minute or two after. They had fought to a finish and ceased to be in each other?s way. Both animals were of medium size and in good condition. I went home for assistance and we skinned the panther and took the bear home and used the meat. Since that time," remarked Mr. Baughman, "I have witnessed many hard fights between animals but the encounter between the bear and panther was the fiercest and most bloody I ever witnessed between domestic or wild animals."


10.) FINDING A PANTHER GUARDING A DEAD BEAR
By S. C. Turnbo

In the month of July, 1824, Jane Coker, Joe?s eldest sister, married Charley Sneed. Neighbors lived far apart then but a few days before the wedding came off Buck Coker sent for his friends to come and be present when his daughter and Charley were united in the bonds of matrimony. Among Coker?s most intimate friends was Payton Keesee and he was among the invited guests. Elias Keesee informed me that he was two months old when this occurred and that his parent told him that it was a hot July day?s ride through the wild woods from where they lived on Little North Fork to where Buck Coker lived at the lower end of the Jake Nave Bend on White River to be present at that wedding on the following day. Soon after the marriage Sneed and his wife located on Osage Creek seven miles west of Carrollton. Sneed?s residence stood on the road leading from Carrollton to Huntsville and near the mouth of a hollow called Jews Harp. Sneed and the Cokers, in visiting each other, beat out a trailway. The country looked so wild then that it made the visitors feel lonely to pass through back and forth between the Sugar Loaf country and Osage Creek. On a certain time Joe Coker paid his sister and brother-in-law a visit and as usual he had gone alone. Two years afterward he told the story of this journey through the wilds of Carroll County to Dave McCord, and Mr. McCord related it to the writer and here is the way it was told me. Mr. Coker said that he did not take the precaution to carry a gun with him on that trip but he met nothing serious until on his way back home. "While I was riding down Lead Mine Hollow which flows into West Sugar Loaf Creek on the west side," said Uncle Joe, "I saw a huge panther crouched down at the side of a dead bear which lay at the foot of a post oak tree that stood at the side of the pathway. The panther was guarding the bear. The two savage animals had met here and engaged in a terrific fight and the bear was killed. The scene of the encounter was in a small prairie bottom with a few scattering trees and nearly ? of a mile above the mouth of the hollow. I rode up as close as I dared to view the ferocious beast and its dead adversary and the spot where they had fought. The panther showed much anger at being disturbed and growled fiercely and rose on his feet and threatened to spring at me. I needed no second warning and gave the enraged beast plenty of room at once and it lay down again at the side of its dead victim. The grass under the tree was all mashed down and stained with blood and the hair on both animals was red with blood. It was evident that they had met here and fought only a few hours previous to my arrival. Part of the outside bark of the tree was raked off from about two feet above the ground to four and five feet up the tree trunk. Evidently when the bear found that he was receiving the worst end of the fight he had attempted to escape up the tree but his powerful antagonist had pulled him back and he had clawed the bark off with his paws in trying to hold to the tree while the panther was preventing him from going up the tree. Appearances indicated that the bear had made several efforts to climb the tree before his enemy finally killed him." Mr. Coker said that when he left them and went on home he intended to return back with gun and dogs and try to kill the panther, but on his arrival at home something occurred which prevented him from going back. Mr. McCord said that Uncle Joe gave him this account in 1838. The combat between the wild beasts took place two years before or in 1836. "Coker?s story aroused my curiosity," said Mr. McCord, "and in company with my brother, John McCord, I visited the spot where Coker told me the right occurred and we found evidence of the combat was still visible. The marks on the tree made by the bear?s claws showed very plain and the shattered bark which had escaped destruction from the forest fires since the fight lay around the roots of the tree, and a few of the bear?s bones were found in the grass under the tree. Doubtless if Coker had reached there sooner he would have witnessed a terrible scene of savagery, blood and war between these angered animals of the forest."

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11.) And this from Grey quoting Buffalo Jones, who was a warden at Yellostone NP in the early 1900's :

Jones discovered, while in the park, that the cougar is king of all the beasts of North America. Even a grizzly dashed away in great haste when a cougar made his appearance. At the road camp, near Mt. Washburn, during the fall of 1904, the bears, grizzlies and others, were always hanging round the cook tent. There were cougars also, and almost every evening, about dusk, a big fellow would come parading past the tent. The bears would grunt furiously and scamper in every direction. It was easy to tell when a cougar was in the neighborhood, by the peculiar grunts and snorts of the bears, and the sharp, distinct, alarmed yelps of coyotes. A lion would just as lief kill a coyote as any other animal and he would devour it, too. As to the fighting of cougars and grizzlies, that was a mooted question, with the credit on the side of the former. 
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By the power of grayskull! I HAVE THE POWER!!!


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## fathertime (May 24, 2012)

So, Cgnyus45 you have to reply to post#44 #46 and #47 
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Take your time... XD


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## Cygnus45 (May 25, 2012)

1-Link is broken (shocker)


2-Dude. When. In. The. Flying. FUCK did I say the average black bear is 2-4 times the size of a lion? Seriously, go check my post, I didn't quickly re-edit it. The only thing i said was that a kodiak can weigh that much more than a lion (which is in a class of it's own compared to a black bear).

I highly suggest you refrain from putting words in my mouth.


3-Once again, show me where in my post I said grizzlies "average" 1,000 lbs. Even my sources would disagree, c'mon. 

Ironically, your link about grizzlies claims 800 lbs is a low weight for a male:

"By comparison, an Alaskan coastal grizzly bear boar could weigh between 800-1200 pounds"


4-So ONE brown bear sitting next to ONE lion covers 100% of both respective species, mirite? Even if you made them the same weight, the matchup is still bad. a bear can rear up and throw haymaker bombs on the lion.




> lion's are 100% Carnivore? Dude, I dont know what to make out of that. What did you want me to say to that? Uhh... Blue...green...5...12...banana...truck's??? That's what you sound like dude, a giant bucket of confusion, every animal is unpredictable but christian the lion, or the lion that was saved by that ladie, or the hundred's of acting lion's in show bisness, or the ten's of thousand's that were in circuses have lived there life out without mauling some one, prove's there gentleness, if you like stating stuff I'm pretty sure not even you can comprehend or understand, than pretty much I'll just keep with saying random stuff like, unicorn's... cloud's...basketball...hippi's. XD XD



Yet you ignore all the times even trained lions maul their managers...not gonna bother looking it up, it's common knowledge.



> So you go to google, and look for predation's on hippo's have a 10 second scan and go skipping down the road singing deck the hall's... XD Dude look around if I could see it, you should be able to find it. Here's more I added to the list on hippo's being killed by lion's...



More broken links and lions eating corpses.

The only thing worth mentioning is the pic of 2 lions ganging up on a baby hippo (lol) and a _pride_ struggling to bring down a single hippo. Still doesn't prove a single lion could kill a hippo (you'd need to be stoned to believe this).

This is how a big predator takes down a big strong herbivore:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTdp7Ep6AM[/YOUTUBE]



> It stated the bear killed the lion as a cat would a rat, yet it state's that they used a abandid broken circuss lion...why would a circuss, abandon a lion, they cost around 700$$$ that's huge amount's of cash for back in the day's, dont you think somthing was wrong with that lion?



yes, if a circus did abandon one there was probably something wrong with it.



> Or how about the part the book state's when american settler's insisted in keeping the fight {fair} bull's tossed around even the biggest of grizzley bear's like rag doll's



A bull would fuck up a lion too. But this is off topic.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLVq8RWgYZk[/YOUTUBE]



> an what's with getting so desperate and bringing in yahoo, or smoothharold where there isint an ounce of credabilty to them, only elementry kid's talking up a storm on there favorite animal, *couldent you tell by there poor grammar and punctuation*



lol, the irony.

and half your janky ass links don't even work bub, talking about lacking credibility.



> An what do you mean I'm bashing the bear's artilery's such as claw's and teeth? I'm not... the animal expert's, scientist and zoologist have stated bear's have a weaker bite due to physiology of there jaw's and teeth size compared to tiger's and lion's... they not me... state there claw's are more for digging than killing, that's basic logic right?



i never said bears bite harder than big cats.

yes their claws are more suited for digging and ripping open bark to get honey. do you think a lion would shrug off a swipe from this?



Sharpness isn't everything. The leverage a bear gets from it's incredibly muscular limbs would produce unimiginable power. It's claws don't _need_ to be sharp.



> Huh? You questioning my statement's of bone density



I'm begining to question your sanity at this point. Your own fucking link says a brown bear's bones are thicker than a lion's. And if an animal weighs twice as much as another, it's bones are going to have to, you guessed it, be stronger to support the extra weight.


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## Lupita (May 25, 2012)

If the Hippo gets you in its mouth, it is all over.


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## Cygnus45 (May 25, 2012)

> And before you go making anymore of a fool out of yourself, by thinking only size matter's



Then why did you go out of your way to try and prove lions could weigh as much as bears...? 

I don't think size is the only factor. Wolverines and wolves scrappiness and stamina could give a bear problems but a lion would slaughter them. Styles make fights. A lion would just charge right at a bear with an aura of invincibility and get crushed by haymakers. It would not magically realize it needed to change it's approach and dart around like it's lighter cousins (especially if it's a male). Think Joe Frazier vs George Foreman.



> in the 19th century it was well documented that bear's killed lion's, yet if it was well documented then where the hell is it?  The only one there is, is what I told you, the california gold rush book's



If the only evidence of grizzlies fighting lions is from that book (since they obviously don't live near each other), and said book is proven to be biased, all we can rely on are our inferences and reasonings. Y/N?

ALL sources in which unfamiliar animals being pitted against each other are open to question, including the roman gladiator ones you fap to. Emperors, enraged that the animal they bet on is losing, could easily have it handicapped. And it happened a long fucking time ago with no reliable records.



> FCougar kills black bear in fight to the death



Cannot be powerscaled to lions. cougars are completely different. still a noteworthy feat.



> Female Cougar and Grizzly Bear fight.



You're using a double k.o (due to both combatants falling off a ledge) as a reference?

A scared mother protecting her young is the single most frightening animal encounter one could imagine. Ever heard of fight or flight? That Cougar was probably using kaio kens, and it says the bear stumbed upon the den and didn't even _know_ about the kittens. *If it had been a cougar stumbling upon a mother grizzly, what do you think would have happened?*



> Ernest Thompson Seton (1929, 90-91)



Literally the exact same fucking story. And another double k.o at that.

As entertaining as these are, it's not helping you. And I repeat: You cannot powerscale these feats to a lion.



> FF"The Indians of California told stories of fights between grizzly bears and lions, with the lion normally the winner, and hunters and others relate stories of fierce conflicts with no clearcut winner, and most often two losers. They describe them as terribly noisy fights with the ground torn up where the skirmishes occurred. The bear would rise to meet the cat's thrusts and throw the cat to the ground. The cat would grasp the bear near the throat and use its hind feet to rake the bear's stomach and chest. The bear was stronger, but the clawing of the cat was highly effective, injuring the bear and causing it to release its holds. Normally they would part, both bloody and battered and neither the winner."



Now this I can agree with. A grizzly and a lion is an even matchup. A kodiak or a polar bear? They're in a class of their own.



> An what happen to the bear's and there [Superman power's] he was supposedly using on african lion's *cough cough* bullshit *cough cough*, to where Puma's are around half the size's of lion's if not 1/4th and they still killed an abundent of black and brown adult bear's... who lion's have account's of killing puma's with the greatest of ease.
> Here's two...
> Lion kills puma
> Puma. One was killed by a male lion (Keller). His strike (one only) ended in immediate decapitation. Another was killed in a free for all (Simoneit) that lasted for 15 minutes. Happened during a performance in Budapest in 1960



Cougars have large paws and proportionally the largest hind legs in the cat family.[31] This physique allows it great leaping and short-sprint ability. An exceptional vertical leap of 5.4 m (18 ft) is reported for the cougar.[42] Horizontal jumping capability from standing position is suggested anywhere from 6 to 12 m (20 to 40 ft). The cougar can run as fast as 55 to 72 km/h (35 to 45 mi/h),[43] 

^This is why cat wankers need to stop powerscaling feats and applying them to lions or tigers. A cougar's physiology is completely different. Lions have strong, stocky front legs while cougars have long, flexible hind legs that allow for long leaping and sprinting. Cougars aren't small either, as they can reach 7-9 ft in length and weigh up to 300 lbs. They are sleeker and aren't as powerfull built as the biggest, but they are still considered the *4th biggest cat of all*.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

To: Cygnus45
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First of all, calm down, I'm a man I can swear too...FAGGET...you see I can do that, to you have terret's? Or is it that your just mad, other's see how pathetic your debate is. Dude your making the same front as Tashtin, you cant present a fraction of what I have...so you use the quote box, to quote my wording's to make as if you are presenting as much data as I have... try an just remember what I say and then type in your presenting's... so people can see how much you really bring... almost zip.
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XD 
Really that's all you got? I mentioned Puma's why? All you do is power scale, an think poke-mon, who ever has the higher number win's XD That's exactly why I posted Puma's they are 1/10th the size's of grizzley bear's and they still won, it is beyound comendable that somthing 1/10th the size of it's foe even gotton those stale mate's, that's why I posted them. Can a 160 pound bear kill a 700 pound big cat F*** NO! Meaning what? Big cat's are superior, in every way... opposite weight's, pound for pound and even bear's having more weight's they lose bad. Give me a break, If I havent posted them, you would been still site-ing all those kiddy site's and thinking godly of kid's XD...I got them from the exact source of what? Your california book source, that's how ignorant you are... you just gave me leverage, that's what you get for talking so cheap XD
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Puma's 300 pound's? That's funny these site's here have them at 150 for average...


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Please, source me to the 300 pounder's that are so abundent. My link's are broken? No biggy... I'll repair them, what am I on some type of timer? No! It just shine's like a rainbow, how your trying to cling to the most minor misshaps as your getting some type of fanasty roster point's I dont know of XD
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You know when you say somthing about my presenting's, point exactly what it is. You said my own source said bear's had densar bone's, I'll correct you on that one, it has a certain part of the body's Bone{} no S there... go read it again and all of it, because I really dont care if you dont want to agknowledge what was presented in hundred's of this exact debate with the best on yuku, an even the most die hard bear enthusiest agknowledged them, again I really dont care if you cant... a hippo at max, has around 6,000 pound's over a bear and guess what? You geussed it, the ratio number aint even that far off from a bear's and lion's XD.
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Again can you process simple thing's? I dont think so, give me the exact name of the zoologist or reserve person and all the bear's they weighed to conclude your so call brown bear's were 800-1200 as an average, you know you have to right? You know...As I did. Huh! That's even pushing the word average at 800-1200 for a polar bear is harsh with real data not hear say, I guess you cant process what is average can you? XD I showed a census for few year's of over 50 brown bear's that were all tranqed and weighed having them no bigger than 600 pound's yes male's too, yes old, prime, young all there, with the scientist who did it, with it's full blown anatomy check up, on each as well...tell me where's your graph? Oh, that's right they are only assumption's, hear say, false chump poacher's... who never even seen a weight scale in there intire life, that's all the reason they hunt is to brag, an lie on there weight's.
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It's common knowldge? No it's not, you dont even know what your talking about, dont look it up then... I dont know what hell your talking about, please anyone else, can you tell me what this mook is saying??? What are you trying to say? That no bear ever mauled his trainer? XD Okay take your med's dude. If my link didnt go threw that's not lacking of credabilty, that's just a malfunction I can an will correct it, your presenting's on the other hand, have not an ounce of weight to them. XD So, good luck fooling elementry kid's. An dude who care's you pointed out minor punctuations, what do you want a cookie? If I had a dollar for every misspelled word you have, I'd have a clean 1,000 buck's, so dont kid your self.
-
A lion would just charge? What are you quoting the book? Are you a lion or somthing, do you have an abundent of evidence of lion's just charge-ing in on anything and not have a plan or really gonna use ignorant word's as most do, Oh lion's they rush in blindingly XD Name one other instant this california book your quoting any occaision's a lion rushed in at a bear an was dealth with, his minuture cousin's did it over 20 time's an they did just fine, but where did you form the conclusion's that they dove with there eye's closed, hoping to magically land a throat grab. Huh! No they no exactly what there doing, and evidently brown bear's cant even handle 160 pound puma's. An when or if you fight... you rely on magic to help you win? XD They are one of the best tactical fighter's in the animal kingdom, what's magic have to do with it? XD
-
What do you mean I went out of my way? Really I held up the world or somthing, or is it you dont like the idea lion's got those weight's, when you only search the first thing that pop's up an cling to the most idiotic word's, like hey look it say's 250 kg is rare. XD I know all the distrcit's weight's Mapogo, Nogorongo, Krugeri and more, that have average weight's of 220-250kg, you cant even name one district, your site's got those weight's from because they didnt weigh them, that's why it's called a secoundary source... as in estimation's.
-
All we can rely on is the reasoning's...Y/N let me think...... NOPE! What? Since now you came in talking tough like you had rock hard evidence, {which you dont} you wanna ignore all the account's I have presented and call a stalemate? When your only source is far from mine and who said I presented everything I have? I'm only getting warmed up, where in my past post, does it look like I'm skimming from the top like your's? Hmm Where? I'm pouring the best ingredint in the pot and stir-ing it up...Come on "Bob marley"...... 
-
*Stir it up*.....*little darlin*....*Stir it up*....*Come on baby*....XD XD
-
Your dam right, you can make B/S claim's all day long... like bear's have the superman gene, when they were killed by Croc's, puma's, tiger's, jaguar's, leopard's, lion's, bull's, bison's more then the other way around, maybe that's why they should stick to eating bug's and plant's, because moose, deer and caribou, aint gonna bring no top predator award in my book.
-
Whoa, whoa, dude you for real? Do you even know the playing field of what your whine-ing about? They used eruopean lion's first which you know nothing of...than they used barbary lion's, which last time I checked... were the one of the biggest and baddest lion's they not only fought every other animal in the arena, they made short work of there own kind, of different district lion's and different subspeice's of lion's, so dont go trolling into territory's of mine's, you thnk you know anything about. Again what's the difference between chump's like you and men like me? We present the exact exploitaion in quality and quanity... dis-proving what were persuing, not whine-ing like a baby and thinking of your own plot's without a ounce of jackshit, to hold to your name. 
-
If it was a Cougar stumbling over a mother bear, what do you think would happen? Funny you should say that, I have a account just like that and the puma killed all 4 XD I'll look for it and post it next time.
-
That's something you can agree with a lion is equal? ------H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T------ XD 
It's reffering to a Puma as in {mouatian} [lion] not a asiatic or african lion, XD XD Where did indian's as in "toma hawk" Type indian's... not gandi type indian's... ever see a african lion in the wild? XD An beside's I LMFAO on that one, polar and kodiak are in a league of there own? Funny, it seemed I'm the only one that preseted account's of lion's killing polar bear's, where's your's?
-
Puma's are different from tiger's and lion's WHAT?!? NO WAY!!! I didnt know that, XD XD, They are different speice's, no shit... they are different. Same with bear's you cant even dream of average outcome's if your average black, sun, sloth, moon, panda, red bear were to fight african lion's, or tiger's an have a fraction of a bout, yet puma's, jaguar's, leopard's can kill and has killed grizzley's...your only chance's are of either a huge black bear, or huge brown bear or huge polar bear, because you...even though peary was still bigger you cryed and cryed... oh that polar was under weight XD Yup, apperently to even have a petty fight by your standard's, the bear has to be a prime 1,300 pound male kodiak bear who just saw his wife cheat on him andin a bloodlust rage stuff him in a cage with a 400 pound lion with no mane, or teeth..in a arena cage, that's only 8 foot tall and 6 foot wide. XD
-
Gooood luck. ^_^


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

Somebody who thinks a Lion can take a Hippo in a one on one fight has lost any and all credibility already.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 25, 2012)

why don't you disprove him with your 100+ sources
oh wait you don't have them


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

projectcapsule said:


> why don't you disprove him with your 100+ sources
> oh wait you don't have them



Don't need to, somebody already posted a video of a pride of Lions attacking a hippo, and being unsuccessful in taking it down. One of the lions even gets one-shotted and dies after sustaining a bite.

But yeah, Mr. "DERRRR I HAVE 100 SOURCES ABOUT IRRELEVANT CRAP" sure can contradict the indisputable fact that an entire pack were unable to take down a hippo, but hey, ONE lion can obviously kill a full-grown hippo in a one on one fight, because one > a pack.

Seriously, how fucking stupid would you have to be? Christ...


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 25, 2012)

Hippo rapes

but I thought fathertime is about bear vs lion

he likes lions


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> Hippo rapes
> 
> but I thought fathertime is about bear vs lion
> 
> he likes lions



He was BSing about it in post #30.
He actually gave a single Lion in a straight up fight against a hippo a 7 to 3 chance of winning.


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## Harard (May 25, 2012)

lol, why is this even a question. The Hippo easily wins.


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## tashtin (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> First of all, calm down, I'm a man


Really? That is shocking. Shocking because you come across as someone with the mental capacity/ reasoning skills of a nine year old; a comparison I imagine all nine year olds would be offended by.



fathertime said:


> you cant present a fraction of what I have...so


 the fact that you present so little and spam so much nonsensical material and claim it to be anything otherwise is baffling. 

But credit where credits due - to be able to cram so much crap in a single post is a feat in itself.



fathertime said:


> you use the quote box, to quote my wording's to make as if you are presenting as much data as I have...



Deconstructing an argument and applying a retort is the foundation of a debate, you cretin.



fathertime said:


> as your getting some type of fanasty roster point's I dont know of XD



It's funny how any source anyone else brings is immediately debunked/ proven false yet anything you bring (without any credibility) should be taken as the word of god. Funny 



fathertime said:


> Again can you process simple thing's? I dont think so, give me the exact name of the zoologist or reserve person and all the bear's they weighed to conclude your so call brown bear's were 800-1200 as an average, you know you have to right? You know...As I did. Huh! That's even pushing the word average at 800-1200 for a polar bear is harsh with real data not hear say, I guess you cant process what is average can you?





*Grizzly bear*
Mammal
Dietmnivore
Average life span in the wild:25 years
Size:5 to 8 ft (1.5 to 2.5 m)
Weight:*800 lbs (363 kg)*
Protection status:Threatened



*Polar Bear*
Mammal
Dietarnivore
Average life span in the wild:25 to 30 years
Size:Head and body, 7.25 to 8 ft (2.2 to 2.5 m); Tail, 3 to 5 in (7.5 to 12.5 cm)
Weight:*900 to 1,600 lbs (410 to 720 kg*



*African Lion*
Mammal
Dietarnivore
Size:Head and body, 4.5 to 6.5 ft (1.4 to 2 m); Tail, 26.25 to 39.5 in (67 to 100 cm)
Weight:*265 to 420 lbs (120 to 191 kg)*

A grizzly is almost twice the size of the largest "wild" African Lion. And a polar is on a league of its own.

Also don't post sources of captive lions as their sizes are grossly inflated.

Darren Naish (biologist)



> I'm sorry to say that bears and lions have been pitted against one another on many, many occasions, always for human 'sport'. When brown/grizzly bears are involved, they always win hands-down: in fact, in historical pitted fights fought in Canada, lions were reputed to last less than 5 mins against adult bears. Even small bears like sloth bears can hold their own against adult lions, with the lion coming off much worse.



I don't know where this source is from but it was pretty cool so...



> The Californians of the late 19th century staged well-documented pit fights with grizzlies and spanish bulls. The grizzlies, using their paw as a club, shattered the unfortunate bull's skull or shoulder bones so easily that the betting became poor.
> 
> Eventually, and at considerable cost, African lions were brought in to raise the stakes. The most fierce of the adult males was sent in whilst the grizzly was already waiting in the pits. *The lion was known for bravely charging straight in and looked good for the money,*but the *grizzly killed a male lion almost as easily as he'd killed the bull.*



Once more, I have no doubt that a lion has killed a grizzly/ polar bears over the years but the fact that you would use the rare accounts as definitive proof of the lions dominance is laughable. 

And get the fuck outta here with this hippo predation bullshit :rofl

You're bias towards the lion is astounding.


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## Thdyingbreed (May 25, 2012)

AfterGlow said:


> He was BSing about it in post #30.
> He actually gave a single Lion in a straight up fight against a hippo a 7 to 3 chance of winning.


Seriously and his logic is stupid because a pride of Lions can take down a Hippopotamus sometimes. 

That means a single Lion can do it by itself with ease not too mention that it's rare for them to even kill Hippos 

The Hippopotamus skin is way too thick for a single Lion to kill and videos showed it earlier prides of Lions. 

Were doing next to nothing to against a single Hippo.

I bet Fathertime thinks a single Lion can kill an adult elephant because a pride does it rarley. :rofl


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## tashtin (May 25, 2012)

Thdyingbreed said:


> I bet Fathertime thinks a single Lion can kill an adult elephant because a pride does it rarley. :rofl



You're thinking too low bro. Think super Tyrannorapter Rex - maybe just maybe it will prove a worthwhile opponent.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

To: Tashtin
-
Awww... you mad bro? Is it becuase you were destroyed in the lion vs tiger thread? XD Hey, if you like the idea a 9 year old B slapped you... then they hey, more to the cause. XD
-
Crap? That's what you posted dude.
-
Huh! dont worry dude, I'll post the link's where the people who took the picture's state the lion's killed the hippo's which, a---gain you wont even match a fraction too. Huh! I'm curious with all this cheap talk, where's your's of a hippo killing a male lion, oh, some mook name -----AfterGlow----- said a hippo one shoted a lion and she died. That's what I mean... PATHETIC.
-
{Tashtin}
It's funny how any source anyone else brings is immediately debunked/ proven false yet anything you bring (without any credibility) should be taken as the word of god. Funny
-
^^^Oh shit, what's that over there I thought that lioness died?


-
XD XD XD
I guess I'm your God, eh?
-
-
What weight's again, from where, Wiki? XD As in a secondary source's, who wiki can be changed by anyone at any time, by who ever has a wiki account? What do I have to post creditable site's again...
-
Black bear's
--------------
{Average's}
Males ? F250 lbs. (range from 125 lbs. to over 600 lbs.)
Females ? 150 lbs. (range from 90 lbs. to over 300 lbs.)
imposition
-
-
Brown bear's
---------------
{Average's}
The average weight of grizzly bears is generally 400 to 600 pounds for males and 250 to 350 pounds for females.

Averaging perhaps 350-500lbs
imposition
-
Oh, what's this? A real live census chart documenting weight's of bear's having the direct root source, of there individual weight's and none were pass 650 pound's? 
imposition
Huh? I thought they averaged 800 pound's??? XD Huh! That's right, your's are only estimation's, a guess, a front, a hypothesis, with no proof of the bear's weighed. XD
-
-
You dont know where the source is? Exactly because it probably dosent exisit, oh wait! 
Canada has african lion's? Hmm...I know they have puma's a.k.a moauntian {lion} XD a sloth bear, can kill a african lion? Do tell...XD
-
Uhh...is that the california gold mining story? Which I exploited 2 time's on this exact thread? Dave hestner: YEEEUUUP!
-
Thank you, come again ^_^


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

All that text, and all I can still see is "DERRR A LION CAN TAKE DOWN A HIPPO"


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

unless I'm missing something hippo's not only have the worst stamina and agility by far out of the three but they overheat by simply being out of water, in a bloodlusted fight to the death against 2 powerful predators its going to be boiling within minutes. If the battlefield is small like a stage it will have the possibility of a swift fight and has decent  chances, if its a large area well your hippo is fried. Lions are better but honestly still quite low, limited to short bursts then required to rest. But their mobility is superb. Bears are endurance kings on the other hand, i would say the grizzly likely takes this

EDIT: ohh make the hippo sex crazed as well, that brings his chances down even more.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Toerworld 
-
Nice one, but I'm not to sure stamina is his hey tictket, he does have high concentration's of fat/bulk but not really rhino skin.
-
Here's some lion's killing hippo's not all are one on one but you get the general idea, beside's that's the name of the game. Who has more account's hippo's live in bigger group's any way. But they dont use tactical unity to defend themselve's 30 hippo's see a small pride an they all dash for the water...Huh? They could have looked at each other an say hmm... I'm around 5,000 pound's he's around 500 pound's they have about 7 lion's we have around 20 hippo's, uhhh... I think we can demolish them...XD but that's not the case a few lion's turn the corner and one out of 20 hippo's alway's yell's RUUUN!!! XD XD.
-
Here's a small list..,
-
Lion's killing hippo's
-
Not far from this pride another pride in Linyanti Botswana specializes in killing Hippo.
An object falls about 5 cm in 0.1 seconds 
- 
Fourth hippo killed.
The five male lions coalition (Notch & sons) killed a Hippo near Rekero last night. I found them this morning feeding ont he hippo, thouhg Notch himself had already eaten and was sleeping in teh shade about a hundred metres fro teh carcass. 
As the morning sun started getting hot, the lions left the carcass one by one untill only one was left and this one decided to guard the carcass from teh Hyaenas that were waiting around. 
While watching this, some four Buffalo bulls came towards the carcass. Tehy soon picked teh scent of the lions and they started charing at two males that were sleeping in the bush, driving them away from the vicinity of the carcass, although Notch was spared since he was a bit further. The Buffaloes left breifely before coming back and started chasing the lions again around. This time they went upto the carcass and drove away the one that was watching over it, and drove them away including Notch. 
After this drama which lasted half of the morning, the Buffaloes gave up and left the lions to continue with feast. This is the fourth Hippo we have seen recently killed by the five. It seems they are now tunring to the Hippos since there is not much else to hunt.

-


imposition



Link removed

imposition  


Link removed 
Link removed 



Link removed 
Link removed 
Link removed 

Link removed 
-
lion have killed and fed 
off three hippos this month

-

Besides isolated cases of Hippo predation by Lions their main threat is from humans. That said there is a pride of Lions in northern Botswana that used to prey on Hippo regularly. The majority of Hippo / predator interaction is from Hippo defending their territories from roaming predators.

-
Results 1 - 15 of 131 ... Filmed in Botswana, from about 10 feet away from the lion. The lion had killed the 
hippo the night before. The hippo is belly up.
air jordan 11 sale-Designed for sport,crafted for life 

an the list is still growing...any one have just 5? of the opposite?


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

"DERR ONE LION CAN TAKE DOWN A HIPPO, 7 TO 3 DERRRRR"


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> SNIP


 Most of your links are simply lions consuming dead hippo's and then you assume that they were the killers. Heat exhaustion brings in many deaths, the lions were likely just eating already dead corpse, as in some areas they are very frequent scavengers. The pictures of lions attacking running hippo's are also irrelevant due to the fact that this thread's "alpha hippo" is EXTREMELY aggressive and crazed as opposed to the cowardly ones. Thirdly, despite afterglow's one liners being lame the point actually stands: the few PROOF'S you had of hippo's being killed by lions were by entire prides which is much more teeth and claws than a single lion has in this match up. 

The lion will likely outlast the hippo in this match up though, hippo's survive predators by forming an effective defense. When you have one under VERY high stress levels trying to hunt MUCH more agile opponents  it's stamina falls like lead and its temperature skyrockets. Again assuming this is a decent area, not a jail cell or something.


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## tashtin (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> To: Tashtin
> -
> Awww... you mad bro? Is it becuase you were destroyed in the lion vs tiger thread?



Not even close bro. I'm big enough to admit when I'm bested. I got tired of your posturing more than anything. And isn't the thread dead?




fathertime said:


> Crap? That's what you posted dude.



Everything you post is hearsay, conjecture and shit from forums. You provide accounts but no source to them. You provide links that do not work and when they do they are endless repeats of stats already known. Oh and pictures, Jesus do you have a hard on for pictures 
-


fathertime said:


> Huh! dont worry dude, I'll post the link's where the people who took the picture's state the lion's killed the hippo's



A rare account of a *pride* killing a hippo in unknown circumstances does not equal a lion beating a Hippo 
-


fathertime said:


> What weight's again, from where, Wiki? XD As in a secondary source's, who wiki can be changed by anyone at any time, by who ever has a wiki account? What do I have to post creditable site's again...



They were from national geographic  unless you wanna claim son forum is more reputable than natgeo. The sizes you provided are laughable. And most likely anorexic bears.
-


fathertime said:


> Uhh...is that the california gold mining story? Which I exploited 2 time's on this exact thread?



The word is "exposed" and please provide how you exposed them preferably with creditable source.


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## tashtin (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> snip



Please for the love of god stop flooding your posts withimages that hold no relevancy to the outcome  its infuriating.

There is one source of three lions unable to take down a 3 year hippo 

Again a pride managing a fluke over a hippo =/= a single lion being the victor.

The majority of links show information about lions, hippos, tigers, safari parks and other nonsensical information. Not relative at all.


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## tashtin (May 25, 2012)

You're either a cleverly disguised troll or are mentally retarded, and I say that with the utmost sincerity.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

To: bower world
-
Yup I'm aware of that lion's do scavange, but neither do you... know if those pic's are of lone lion's who stumbled on a carcass, or have killed them, them selve's, which I should have put attacking instead of killing, but I am In the process of finding there root source, which as of right now, it's 50/50 I dont know... I know of 2 I just found which said the lioness couldent kill the big hippo, so I will remove it from the further list. I Dont like to present false data, If I know it's false... I would just dis-reguard it, an start from scratch.
-
-
-
-
-
{To: Cygnus45}
Oh? My link's dont work? Why dont you go back and check lion vs tiger I replied directly to you, stating I fixed an corrected all the broken link's. Again forum's, and hear say? [BS] Mine's has the direct article, the direct source, the direct claim, your's are secondery source's...I dont know why you would say that, everyone else can just see for themselve's, oh... I get it! Your just trying to save face, to who ever didnt go there, right? XD I was part of those forum's who I my self donated book's, article's and study's from lion's and tiger's from scientist, zoologist, expert's everything I was able to read I contributed to the team of yuku. Again...Which arnt like your's, who you bluff there's so many crap out there for your side, yet I would know, when the tiger mod has presented everything on tiger's to his knowledge {which is the shit lode} who dwarf's mine's eon's of studying tiger's an he never mention's any of the false, and random data you chump's present, because the whole tiger team of yuku were the one's who helped exploit tiger fanatic's like you, showing site's like jackjack's was dis-owned from yuku, because he lied on 330 account's an gave the tiger a bad reputation for having only majority of poor data and faked account's.
-
An the thread is dead? Or is it everyone cant match my data? Huh! Dead? People are still posting there, bud an last time I checked... I had a few hundred rep's in my PMs about people thanking me for sharing thing's they never knew of, which you said they were common knowledge... XD
-
Nat geo? Those are just dedicated people {who I appreciate} who love studying animal's, they are free lancer's doing it under a logo which they present there finding's to, they indeed have a good source but it's schollar level 2 at best. While my forum's I present, have the exact study of the exact scienist, that has been in the study for over 50 year's... which there are more than just one type of scientist brainiac... an last time I checked, these are from a 100 year stand point of many different study's done from many differnt scientist who still have there exact document that they passed down to there predassesor's, which put's them at the highest level of accuratecy in there field's. That's the whole purpose of those forums nimrod, they are collective data from hundred's of different view point's, not just a man with a camera in his hand, following a animal in a jeep and never even get's to touch the animal for studying of anatomy's, those are completely different job classes your thinking of.
-
Anerixic bear's? XD Yeah, that's because you weighed them for the past 50 year's XD None of your's had a graph or chart showing the bear's they weighed, so by beliving in all those secoundary site's... you need like crack, you now had your world shattered that they were only estimation's... XD 
-
Dude, you know how stupid you sound? Present the source? W....T....F  is wrong with you??? The same book YOU mentioned has exactly what I said... I exploited only detail's that they left out on a book they and YOU are source-ing. So your presenting something you havent even read, plain an simple. Where do you think I got most of the puma killing those bear's account's from??? 
[The california grizzley an gold mineing book!!!] Dumbass. 
H-o-l-y s-h-i-t your ---Fucking stupid---... pardon my language but you "take the cake"
-
I mean how stupid is that, you present the book, but you havent even read the book...
so how the hell would you know what's in it?
-
I think I'm gonna hold on to this post of your's and show some of my bud's who I debated the Cali grizz book with, an show how ignorant a person can be an say... 
HEY! In this book there's my account... I say... what about the other part's in the book, that said they alway's gave leverage to the bear??? 
You: WHERE? SHOW PROOF! 
Me: Uhh??? In the same book your presenting. 
-
XD XD XD XD XD
-
Bravo! Bravo! Old chap, Braavoo!


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## AfterGlow (May 25, 2012)

How about you explain how a single lion could take down a hippo instead? You're good at shooting your bitch mouth off about how a pack of lions have been seen feeding on a dead hippo, so how about some of them glorious sources of how single lions face down hippos, kill them and are revered as the Legendary Super Lion in the rest of the pack?

You could address this, or just STFU and GTFO, because nobody will acknowledge horse shit from some delusional twat who thinks a lion can take down a hippo.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> To: bower world
> -
> Yup I'm aware of that lion's do scavange, but neither do you... know if those pic's are of lone lion's who stumbled on a carcass, or have killed them, them selve's, which I should have put attacking instead of killing, but I am In the process of finding there root source, which as of right now, it's 50/50 I dont know... I know of 2 I just found which said the lioness couldent kill the big hippo, so I will remove it from the further list. I Dont like to present false data, If I know it's false... I would just dis-reguard it, an start from scratch.



I understand, but i personally wouldn't put up things like that unless i was certain that my stance was correct.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Toerworld
-
Agreed.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Why the heck does that icon keep poping up on your name?
-
But do you have any account's of bear's killing lion's? I like to learn both side's of what I debate, not just the one I represent.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> Why the heck does that icon keep poping up on your name?
> -
> But do you have any account's of bear's killing lion's? I like to learn both side's of what I debate, not just the one I represent.


For the most part no, on average wild bears are much less aggressive than lions.
In captivity(the only place the two would meet) bears carry this trait and are easier to train and prevent from "going bad" than lions and when the cats went bad right of the bat the kind and loyal bears are easy prey. However, in the old pit fights between the two(where both animals were brutalized and made into vicious and SUPER aggressive killing machine) the bears often won. one of the more famous examples would be the californian bear, parnell which literally killed his lion opponent within seconds. The pit fights mirror this scenario closely.


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## Waking Dreamer (May 25, 2012)

A circus / trained bear is a far cry from a fully grown, wild Alaskan Brown Bear, with a lifetime's built up of testosterone, used to fight other large Alaskan Brown Bears. Either for the sweetest spot up the river during the feast of the high protein Salmon Run...or claim whichever female bear he chooses for a mate.

[YOUTUBE]vGwUpM9QryU[/YOUTUBE]​


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

To: bowerworld 
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Oh, okay. I actually covered that story on the past post, one stated lion's in canada which is for Puma's not lion's as in asiatic or african and the other which most state from the california gold mine book had only one account it mentioned, no everytime only one fight, which it state's it was on a abaonded broken circuss lion, again why would they abondon a circuss lion if something wasnt wrong with him because 700 dollar's and up for a performing lion was crazy rich money, back in those days why would they leave him?  I already covered it, in the past few page's. I agree at some extent, trained lion's and bear's lose there feriocty. But That wouldent take away what they are... killing machine's. let alone the degree on how tamed you think they are, when making accusation's such as... oh the bear was tamed, you have to provide how many year's they were recently caught, because the one's I know of have some that stated it was only month's before they gotton bruin the bear from the wild, not raised, but a fresh bear they caged an are breaking into training and a tamed lion as in been in the biz for 6 year's killed him.
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I have a few ciruses clashes, an a few pit fight's of my own, and lion's came out on top killing adult polar and grizzley bear's here... 
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1.1902 lion named roosevlet killed peary the polar bear.
2.John heliot?s circus lion named brutus kills polar bear.

3. lion kills polar bear 1955 By Alfred Court.[Book]Pages 131-132,
Link removed 
4. lion kills polar bear Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, [Book] 
page 204-205.
Link removed 
5.1893 Pezon in limoges, Leo the lion kills polar bear
6.Boltimore the lion kills russian grizzley

7. Lion stale mate?s enormous grizzley bear 
THE OAKLAND TRIBUNE APRIL 1, 1895 "A DRAW" PARNELL FIGHTS A BIG BEAR. 
THE LOS ANGELES TIMES APRIL 2, 1895 "BRUIN THROWS LEO
8. Lion kills bruin the grizzly bear 

9. 
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Along with the 10 or so puma account's I posted on page 3, the predation site's of tiger's killing bear's in russia, and few tiger's that killed bear's in circuses, kind show's a solid statement, that big cat's dominate over the bear speice's as a whole. Even past euorpean lion's have a few account's lainchester vile I think... had bone's of cave bear's an cave lion's which he concluded cave lion's went in bear den's to hunt them, more the other way around, but lion's were still in small group's so the best thing he could have done was, go down fighting and take maybe a lion with him.
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But I do know of a few bear's who killed tiger's like clyde beatty's, yet it was a female tiger an she was 300 pound's while clyde's bear was a whopping 700 pound's. I dont any male vs male for the tiger side. But I have to back track an find the asiatic lion site that had lion's killing and predate-ing on asiatic black bear's, who can grow pretty huge as well. I only recently got those bear account's but with a little time, I garentee I can get as much as I have for the lion and tiger with the lion and bear account's that I have.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

Waking Dreamer said:


> A circus / trained bear is a far cry from a fully grown, wild Alaskan Brown Bear, with a lifetime's built up of testosterone, used to fight other large Alaskan Brown Bears. Either for the sweetest spot up the river during the feast of the high protein Salmon Run...or claim whichever female bear he chooses for a mate.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]vGwUpM9QryU[/YOUTUBE]​


agreed, bears brought up as door mats to do tricks for masters are not worthy of representing their specie's combat prowess. blood sport ones on the other hand are perfect for that position.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> snip.



They are still killing machine but the reason that circus mishaps shouldn't be included is because they are simply freak accidents. the animal for an unknown reason just goes beserk randomly and attacks the other one offguard that was busy doing its commands. Now as to pit fights i also found something about "old martin" which was a bear that killed four lions then dying to the fifth. TBH it seems that both animals at the super ferocity level kill each other at times. As for the tiger killing grizzly bears. These are the usurri subspecies which are on average much smaller than kodiaks. as for beatty tiger kill, i apologize but your information is wrong. The animal was the male, prince who was 500 pounds btw


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Oh crap, I must have  miss that, I scan threw that article tone's of time's thinking that was the female apperently there was 2 kill's, but for your thinking I'm wrong here's the article with the female tiger...

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An you know I'm not to big on hear say, any idea wherethat source or article or book is, about the bear killing 5 lion's, which you do know ton's were pitted with lion's though there's a misinterpert, country people know puma's as lion's as in moatian lion's, becuase i highly dought a bear can take 5 in a row with african lion's, so please a source or book would be nice.
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I'm not too big on this topic hippo is pretty awkward, they killed monthly by lion's, yet very few I think exsist of vice versa, but I'm game with the Bear vs lion.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Hmm... I think there might be 3 because even the other one I seen dident have these detail's... I have to check my data base again.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> Oh crap, I must have  miss that, I scan threw that article tone's of time's thinking that was the female apperently there was 2 kill's, but for your thinking I'm wrong here's the article with the female tiger...
> 
> -
> An you know I'm not to big on hear say, any idea wherethat source or article or book is, about the bear killing 5 lion's, which you do know ton's were pitted with lion's though there's a misinterpert, country people know puma's as lion's as in moatian lion's, becuase i highly dought a bear can take 5 in a row with african lion's, so please a source or book would be nice.
> ...


oh well i can't find a working citation for that shame but i do have others. 
Article excerpt where a female bear kills 2 lions 



Black bear kills lion


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

That polar bear's name is velox and there's as article of her bio, that state's she killed a performing seal, and perhap's have fought 2 lion's, so I dont know if they were killed let alone the sex's of the lion's or if it was one on one or so, 
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1956? hmm That look's like my exact article I have of a fight with a black bear and they sent him to the emergency room, I dont think he died, let me check I'll be right back.


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## bowerworld (May 25, 2012)

fathertime said:


> That polar bear's name is velox and there's as article of her bio, that state's she killed a performing seal, and perhap's have fought 2 lion's, so I dont know if they were killed let alone the sex's of the lion's or if it was one on one or so,
> -
> -
> 1956? hmm That look's like my exact article I have of a fight with a black bear and they sent him to the emergency room, I dont think he died, let me check I'll be right back.


 yes velox but i would assume its correct as it is an official article.


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## fathertime (May 25, 2012)

Now, just hold on there.
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 I've seen it an looking for the zoo she was at... bio, we dont know if it was male's that's a huge difference, and there can be multiple article's on the same incident hence parnell, ramandan an panthera the bull that fought the lion and bear had 6 different article's and 1 said the lion was killed but the other 5 said the lion retired into his cage after being tormented by the bull, and he licked his wound's he recovered in a week while the bear had all 6 article's state he was stone dead from the bull.
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You see, there is alot even when having a article is in that era, can be sketchy for your's mention's some one else's scrap's not his own... yet Ive seen 2 bio's that said it {perhap's} it was a fight that mentions no death an they date back to those era's too, so I'll try and find the owner's article, I wouldnt dought it for a secound... come on... its a polar bear of course it can kill a lion... but I have been duped to many time's an need the original along with your 1956 article, I know shaggy god .com or some where I seen it an it had the lion in the operating room, which he recovered from in week's. 
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But no worry's... I'll find it in a few, but if you cant wait, then that's okay... I'll post it latter on tonight. Yeah you know what, I'll catch it later tonight garentee. I'll be more than happy to execpt they were killed as long as I see the orginal document's in favor of it.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 25, 2012)

Bear kills them all with its kung fu


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## fathertime (May 27, 2012)

Toygnus 45
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You got it bud, check this out, my little laugh is even louder than your giant picture there
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----XD----
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Let me intice you a bit on the gravity, of you thinking size is the only factor here...
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In this site of yuku, there's 60 account's of tiger's killing all type's of bear's from black to brown to white, here...

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An this site has over 10 account's of just Puma's killing black and brown bear's, here...

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An we are back to the lion's again... here's the 9 account's of lion's killing grizzley and polar bear's, an keep in mind... beside's both animal's lion and bear were tamed in most, beside's the pit fight one's the lion still won, but there's not 1 bear in these account's the same weight's as the lion, they are all adult's an all way hevier than each lion.
-1.1902 lion named roosevlet killed peary the polar bear.
2.John heliot?s circus lion named brutus kills polar bear.

3. lion kills polar bear 1955 By Alfred Court.[Book]Pages 131-132,
Link removed 
4. lion kills polar bear Louis Roth, forty years with jungle killers, [Book] 
page 204-205.
Link removed 
5.1893 Pezon in limoges, Leo the lion kills polar bear
6.Boltimore the lion kills russian grizzley

7. Lion stale mate?s enormous grizzley bear 
THE OAKLAND TRIBUNE APRIL 1, 1895 "A DRAW" PARNELL FIGHTS A BIG BEAR. 
THE LOS ANGELES TIMES APRIL 2, 1895 "BRUIN THROWS LEO
8. Lion kills bruin the grizzly bear 

9. Lion kills tiger and bear in 1 fight

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Even in the same site of yuku where there's the tiger account's I showed, they have a article of lion's having asiatic black bear's as a certian % as part of there diet's. It has the word's "diet" there not just foe, or advisery, or competion... but diet's XD well if you ask me, that's why there is no bear's in lion territory, theyed be extinct... kinda like how the way cave lion's prey'd on cave bear's, back in the day. XD
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Now since that's a clean 100 accounts, who know's maybe more if I include the predation scale's of over a 300 scat's had 100 kill's of bear's in it, from bengal tiger's an asiatic lion's, killing asiatic bear's...buuuut that would imply now that I have mentioned a few, you have to match it with a 100 account's of bear's killing big cat's.
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Good luck ^_^
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***Bonus round***
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Debunking of =Cygnus45, an his pokemon of who has the higher {Hp} formality of size is the only factor...
Here's a account of a Sloth bear, aka Asiatic bear the most aggresive out of the bear speice's, killing a polar bear the biggest and strongest of the bear world...

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Uhhhhh that must get to you... that your now realizing, oh, maybe size isint everything?!?
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Bruce lee
Chuck norris 
Mike tyson
Mirko cro cop 
Wolverine's
Pitbull's 
All prove that size isint everything.
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An to your reply of black bear's...
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-------XD-------


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## Cygnus45 (May 27, 2012)

Yes tigers kill russian bears, but you conveniently left out that the bears kill the tigers too (even taking their kills). Doesn't matter anyway since Polars>/=Kodiak>>>Brown bears>>>Tigers>Lions.

You STILL don't get that a tamed circus bear is almost certain not to snap and have predatory instincts. Those feats are meaningless.

You're STILL obviously not reading any or my posts and continuing to spout the same bullshit. I said just two posts ago that wolverines could give a bear trouble and that it wasn't just about the size when it comes to lions vs bears, it's the matchup.

>STILL posting pics of lions eating corpses lol.

>More broken links lol.

The fact you stuck by your claim that black bears weighing 125 lbs being "normal" confirms your insanity. 

I'm done here.


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## fathertime (May 28, 2012)

Uhh? What made you think I didint know that? I know of account's of bear's killing tiger's, but why should I mention them, I'm representing the big cat's side. Why do you put taking there kill's then so vaygly, when you already know both side's do that, depending on size an determination. An beside's you trying a little hard to get that out there... there are house cat's video's of scaring off black bear's... some feat taking a kill, huh! 
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What? Why are you capatalizing your word STILL??? I like to actually call poeple like you ingnorant, you have no knowledge on the subject... if you think that there are little bear account's killing there handler's, owner's, trainer's, tamer's an on looker's of zoo's, reserve's, sanqtaury's, private owned farm's... when there are thousand's of circus tragidy's well documented of human's being killed, by bear's of all speice's. Some died even from a small bite or scratch of being infected, while other's simply get full blown mauled, there's a circus casualtie site that has an archive of over 90 year's of recorded death's an just by scanning I remembered over 700, with even not looking to long on the different circuses, why dont you google= "list of circuses" an see how much there are, there have been over a 100 circuses an each tally a few thousand's in all there year's running time of performing. So stop making yourself look stupid, an capatilizing gesturing you dont even know an ounce of what your talking about. 
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B.S??? Tell me what's B.S... is it that your getting smashed an your mad, or do you genuinely spot somthing you can dis-aprove... by presenting with a quanity of creditable counter-bate of dis-crediting my evidence's quality...Hmm? No, you dont have any, they all stand creditable for I showed weight's that are weighed an your's has no chart or testimonial, or anything but estimation's to conclude there weight's.
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Huh! You said the wolverine can give a bear trouble, yes, but I implamented size dosent matter differently, they also can kill polar bear's... which there are 3 account's of wolverine's killing polar bear's threw tactic's of hide-ing in hole's an when the bear stick's his head in to get what he think's is a easy meal.... they lunge out an latch on to the bear's neck an slash open there throat's. Which was witnessed by eskimo's 3 time's.
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I'm still posting picture's? That's because they have weight to them, your just being ignorant again, can you absolutely provide the source link that claimed every single pic I posted was only found an not killed by the lion? No, so what's the problem here? I stated already I found 2 that stated the lioness couldent bring down the 5,000 pound hippo being she was a teen an very unexperinced along with it was a female lion an I'm not going to present them again, if I know the truth... though I'm still looking for the other's while most have a male lion on a bloodied up "alive hippo", so please tell me, where the hell are your's? Your talking so cheap, you dont even bring 1/10th of what I bring an the thing's you do bring... have the worst credability to them, as in secoundary source's, with no proof.
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I would think that a 125 lb black bear is small... though look at philipino's, martiallian's, micronisian's, they all have each man under 5 feet an 120 pound's as there average, to where as the usaul hawaiian or german or so is averaged at 5'9 an 160 pound's. Yet I still dont get every feeble corner you take has to point out minor detail's, does it say black bear's average 125 lb's? No it say's 250 lb's , so what's the problem, Ive seen an abundent of bear's in circus act's of black bear's american or asiatic... no bigger if not smaller than there trainer, not just selectively finding every picture of a goliath bear an say look.... that's how big they alway's are. 
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Ive seen the link work before, yet it probably timed out the subscriber for that site, so Oh my world is ended now... XD I'll just get another picture of a lion's skull, do you think that's so hard?
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So that's your ranking, Poke-mon formality of Hp again? XD First of all, polar bear's can even over heat in there natrual below freezing inviroment's when fighting or running or any type o extra activety, so he can 'only" have a decent fight in cold captivity just being out in a savanah for a day would kill a polar bear threw heat stroke. Secoundly they have more account's of being killed than vice versa when it come's to other predator's, which these are fact's I go by, not assumption's of oh the bear is bigger so he will win, no...wolverine's have killed them, black and brown bear's have killed them, tiger's and lion's have killed them, puma's 1/10th there size has killed full grown grizzley bear's, more time's than vice versa, are you even reading what I bring??? I bring account's, where's your's? I dont know what planet your living on, where a opinion is greater than an account.
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This goes with your whole ranking of just showing you know nothing of any animal, when there are more account's of tiger's killing bear's in great quanity's of at-least 10 to 1 account's tiger's have killed brown bear's , so how is the tiger below the brown bear? Oh yeah, you just want it that way XD How is the lion below the tiger when there are only around 30-40 account's of tiger's killing lion's an 70% of them are of male tiger's killing female lion's an the other 30% are of lion's that were not contender lion's as in no battle mane, or not in the standard of a 6-12 year old prime lion, I even know of account's the article it self said the male lion wasnt eating an was about to die, yet everyone glamorize's that account without mentioning the essential's...Huh! When in fact, there's over a 100 account's of lion's killing tiger's, which although few are female's... it is vice versa of tiger's an has 70% of male tiger's being killed by both male and female lion's. So tell me, why is the tiger over the lion? Oh I forgot again, you just want it to be. Huh!
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If your going to adress me, then bring somthing worth reading, not just your selfish complaint's. 
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An if your done then be done, dont post back if your gonna repeat your done, your done, because if you come back... it not only mean's your a hypocrite that contradict's himself on a rutinely basis, but it make's you look stupid.


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## fathertime (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm just testing if the picture's can all fit in one post of the imgae maker...test...test 1   2 test...


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## fathertime (Jun 5, 2012)

awww I guess I have to post these type one at a time, oh well's.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jun 5, 2012)

You can do 10 pics & 10 videos and as many links as you like per post.


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## Elite Ace (Jun 5, 2012)

Arguments about Lion vs Bear are useless here considering a BERSERK Hippo is a participant.


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## Rax (Jun 5, 2012)

Link removed


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## bowerworld (Jun 5, 2012)

Elite Ace said:


> Arguments about Lion vs Bear are useless here considering a BERSERK Hippo is a participant.


 you do realize that the hippo is likely the loser via stamina depletion/overheating because of that bezerkness.  Hippo's have low stamina and overheat to DEATH from simply being out of water get a SEX CRAZED, BLOODLUSTED hippo trying to hunt enemies with 10 times it's speed, mobility and stamina your problem is worse tenfold. That said, if any of his opponents are retarded pieces of shit and attack him head on they get gulped within secounds.


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## Rax (Jun 5, 2012)

Watch my video.

It shows a bear's tanking ability.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jun 5, 2012)

Red Hero said:


> Link removed



That video is fake. Read the comment underneath. I would have thought it obvious, seeing as the gorilla stands up and throws a rock at it, which it would never do in a real fight.


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## Distracted (Jun 5, 2012)

This isn't a bad discussion, but it's kind of spammed up.  I'm giving it a preliminary lock, but if someone wants to continue it feel free to drop me, greed or willy a message to reopen it (link the others to this post if you go to them.)


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