# Minato's Rasengan vs. Kakashi's Raikiri



## Kai (Jun 16, 2015)

Minato's standard Rasengan clashes against Kakashi's standard Raikiri. Who comes off better in this exchange?

Restrictions: No Kyuubi or Sennin chakra.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jun 16, 2015)

minato wins empirically because he is using a fundamentally more stable/ patently superior jutsu.

shape manipulation > nature manipulation

fanservice & plot shenanigans be damned


----------



## Alex Payne (Jun 16, 2015)

Either a tie or Kakashi cuts through Minato's hand. Minato's Rasengan looked slightly more powerful than normal but it was still Rasengan and not higher version like Odama or with Nature Manipulation. And it took Futon-enhanced Rasengan to beat Raikiri.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 16, 2015)

Isn't "Raikiri" just Chidori with a different name because Kakashi apparently cut lighting with it? They should tie.

Even if Raikiri is some kind of mastered Chidori, I still think it would tie if we assume Minato has a comparable mastery of Rasengan.


----------



## Alex Payne (Jun 16, 2015)

Raikiri got a different DB entry and a higher Rank(S). Ranks are about difficulty and not power but it's still something to consider.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah, I'm not among those who believe that Raikiri is actually more powerful. Even the Top Tier versions of Sasuke used "Chidori," and I think it's better to go with the two techniques being the same thing rather then believing that Sasuke was never good enough to make his Chidori a Raikiri.

Also, most people familiar with the technique (Deidara, A) think that Sasuke is using Raikiri as opposed to Chidori, so any difference in power seems negligible to me at this point.


----------



## Alex Payne (Jun 16, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Also, most people familiar with the technique (Deidara, A) think that Sasuke is using Raikiri as opposed to Chidori, so any difference in power seems negligible to me at this point.


People who "heard" about the tech you mean? That's not really a good point imo.

Sasuke decided to correct Deidara too. I don't think it was simply because he was being an asshole. Even though he is an asshole.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 16, 2015)

That was just a secondary point, and we don't know how familiar with the technique A and Deidara actually were. It was food for thought.

IIRC, Sasuke's Chidori has never been called an inferior version of Kakashi's Raikiri in the entire 700 chapter story. I really don't see it as inferior. They look the same, they do the same thing, and if anything I'd say _Chidori_ is stronger because Sasuke has far more powerful chakra than Kakashi does.

So I guess you could say it scales with the user, but then Kakashi wouldn't just beat Minato.


----------



## Kyu (Jun 16, 2015)

Minato's rasengan > part 2 Naruto's rasengan ~ Sasuke's chidori ~ Kakashi's raikiri


Being generous to raikiri since I don't remember it doing anything as impressive as Sasuke penetrating Ei's raiton armor and injuring him in the process.


----------



## Mercurial (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah, Kishimoto bothered to create two different entries for Chidori and Raikiri, ranking Chidori with A and Raikiri with S, just for the lulz. Yeah. Raikiri is the more refined and mastered version of Chidori, which is the base technique. Raikiri focuses more Raiton chakra that is more focused on the first part compared to Chidori. 

Minato's Rasengan is more powerful than normal Rasengan but that's on par with Chidori that is less powerful than Raikiri, so we don't know for sure but Kakashi should come on top in a direct clash. In a non plot hindered battle situation, he would take advantage of Sharingan precognition, but then again Minato would use Hiraishin Ni no Dan to surprise him like he did with Obito. But he would probably hit only a Raiton Kage Bunshin, so yeah.

KCM/BM Minato with Kyubi chakra enhancing would definitely come on top and DMS Rikudo Kakashi would neg blitz with Kamui Raikiri.


----------



## Icegaze (Jun 16, 2015)

even clash 
i thnk the whole raikiri chidori thing was retconned after
no reason rinnegan sasuke couldnt achieve such a simple technique


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 16, 2015)

Raikiri = Chidori. No distinction was made except for the ambiguity in databook rank.

With that said, it is a draw. Rasengan and Raikiri magically negate each other.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jun 16, 2015)

Rasengan has more power. As we saw with the water tanks in part 1. Does more internal damage and has more explosive damage.

Raikiri is more lethal and as it is all about speed and penetration.

That being said, the sane thing that happened with naruto and sasuke when they clashed at the samurai bridge location will happen with minato and kakashi. Both jutsu will collide and stalemate each other. 

Minato has displayed 3 diferent sized rasengans in base. His standard palm sized one. His slightly bogger than avaerage sized one (bigger than his palm). And his odama rasengan which is the size of a basket ball(look at my sig). Anything above the standard size should defeat raikiri. If minato and kakashi were to clash in my sig, minato would win, that rasengan has been pumped with chakra.


----------



## Euraj (Jun 16, 2015)

That idea that Raikiri > Chidori by default is bullshit. Within the same arc, Sasuke's "Chidori" went from being irrevocably inferior to Naruto's Rasengan and then being able to match it. 

Then by the time the kid is an adult, he's popping meteors with it, but I guess Kakashi would still beat him in a direct clash because his technique is called "Raikiri"? Kakashi Gaiden's Chidori and Sasuke's Pt. I Chidori are the only jabs we can reasonably assume Kakashi's Raikiri are stronger than. 

Between Minato and Kakashi, you have to consider who's faster and who can pump out more chakra in the one blow.


----------



## Empathy (Jun 16, 2015)

Do Kakashi's fans seriously think Sasuke was fighting against Juubi jinchuurikis with raiton mastery lower than wave arc Kakashi? That Sasuke never, even at the end of series, managed to improve from _Chidori_ to _Raikiri_-level since the chuunin exams? He's still only at the _Chidori_-level Gaiden Kakashi started at?


----------



## Trojan (Jun 16, 2015)

Minato would win. 

Both Jiraiya, and Kakashi himself know that the Rassengan is the superior jutsu.


----------



## NarutoIndra (Jun 16, 2015)

Rasengan would win. There's no difference between Sasuke and Kakashi's Chidori, and if anything, Sasuke's Chidori is more powerful than Kakashi's Raikiri regardless of rank and hype.


----------



## Mercurial (Jun 16, 2015)

Empathy said:


> Do Kakashi's fans seriously think Sasuke was fighting against Juubi jinchuurikis with raiton mastery lower than wave arc Kakashi? That Sasuke never, even at the end of series, managed to improve from _Chidori_ to _Raikiri_-level since the chuunin exams? He's still only at the _Chidori_-level Gaiden Kakashi started at?



Post Rikudo power up Sasuke? Lol, obviously, definitely, clearly (not that Kakashi didn't go far beyond that with Rikudo enhanced Kamui Raikiri, but nonethless). Before? Just no.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 16, 2015)

VotE II Sasuke still uses Chidori.

So by this "Chidori < Raikiri 'cause databook" logic, that Sasuke would lose a clash against Wave Kakashi because _this_ is an inferior version of what Chapter 30 Kakashi used on Zabuza.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 16, 2015)

Rocky said:


> VotE II Sasuke still uses Chidori.
> 
> So by this "Chidori < Raikiri 'cause databook" logic, that Sasuke would lose a clash against Wave Kakashi because _this_ is an inferior version of what Chapter 30 Kakashi used on Zabuza.



I guess Vote 2 Sasuke's raiton proficiency wasn't as good as part 1 Kakashi.


----------



## Sadgoob (Jun 16, 2015)

Rocky said:


> VotE II Sasuke still uses Chidori.
> 
> So by this "Chidori < Raikiri 'cause databook" logic, that Sasuke would lose a clash against Wave Kakashi because _this_ is an inferior version of what Chapter 30 Kakashi used on Zabuza.



Rank reflects difficulty/refinement and not power.

VotE II Sasuke's technique being less refined is acceptable.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 16, 2015)

How is difficulty relevant in a clash if it doesn't effect the potency of the technique?


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jun 16, 2015)

If the Ranking of a technique reflects on the difficulty to master it, then a higher rank technique could likely require greater chakra control which would yield a more potent jutsu.


----------



## Bonly (Jun 16, 2015)

I'd guess that they would both clash evenly like Naruto+Sasuke's Chidori/Rasengan do


----------



## Thunder (Jun 16, 2015)

Raikiri ≠ Chidori if we're just talking about the jutsu themselves and not taking the power of the casters into account. There would be no point in creating separate names and separate databook entries for these jutsu if this wasn't the case.



> *Databook 1 - Chidori:*
> Chidori
> 
> 
> ...





> *Databook 1 - Raikiri:*
> Raikiri
> 
> 
> ...


Plus, Hebi Sasuke corrected Deidara when he erroneously labeled his Chidori as "Raikiri".  

At some point in the story Sasuke grew much stronger than Kakashi overall, and thus Sasuke's jutsu being a reflection of his strength are on another level as well. To give an example, observe how powerful Gōkakyū is when Sasuke casts it (1) (2). Which doesn't change the fact that Gōkakyū is weaker than many other Katon relatively speaking. It just scales with the user. Chidori is no different hence the meteor busting feat from _The Last_.

Basically, Raikiri should be better than Chidori _if the characters manifesting these jutsu are in the same ballpark power-wise_. Due to Sasuke's skill and the nature of Chidori / Raikiri, it's difficult to notice a difference between them throughout the manga.

I think that's what those arguing for Raikiri's superiority over Chidori are getting at.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jun 16, 2015)

The way some people think is really narrow minded.

Sandaime Raikage's Hell stab is a B rank technique. Yet it is more powerful the Raikiri, if he clashed his hell stab with sasukes chidori or raikiri, he'd tear their arms off.

Rank = Jutsu difficulty
It in no way reflects the power of the technique.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 16, 2015)

2

Chidori = Raikiri.

It is called Raikiri when Kakashi uses it, its like a nickname.  
It originates from this : 



> Dōsetsu was in possession of a famous sword called Chidori (千鳥, A Thousand Birds). One day, while he was still a young man, he was taking shelter under a tree, as it was raining. Suddenly, a bolt of lightning struck him. However, Dōsetsu used his Chidori to cut the Thunder God inside the lightning bolt, allowing him to survive. After this incident, he renamed his Chidori to Raikiri (雷切, Lightning Cutter).[2]


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jun 16, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 2
> 
> Chidori = Raikiri.
> 
> ...



I agrree with you. The confusion is why raikiri is S rank but chidori is A rank. Makes no sense.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 16, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> I agrree with you. The confusion is why raikiri is S rank but chidori is A rank. Makes no sense.



That can be chalked up to databook bullshit. Like Amaterasu being hot as the sun.

There are some contradictory things in the databook like that.

But we have a 700 chapter manga and not even once someone pointed out the difference between Raikiri and Chidori, on the contrary they were said to be the exact same technique.

There are no feats that sepearates them from each other, no visual hints or such.

So yeah, I'll go with the manga on this one.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 21, 2015)

Empathy said:


> Do Kakashi's fans seriously think Sasuke was fighting against Juubi jinchuurikis with raiton mastery lower than wave arc Kakashi? That Sasuke never, even at the end of series, managed to improve from _Chidori_ to _Raikiri_-level since the chuunin exams? He's still only at the _Chidori_-level Gaiden Kakashi started at?



Didn't the Raikage already acknowledge this? 

How can someone question fact?


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Jun 21, 2015)

Tie I guess.  

Raikiri may be better than chidori, but Minato tends to use use rasengan basketballs.


----------



## KeyofMiracles (Jun 21, 2015)

Minato's Rasengan is larger than Naruto's Oodama Rasengan, or the same size at the very least. He'd wreck Kakashi in this clash.


----------



## Amol (Jun 21, 2015)

Frankly it depends upon the caster.
I always assumed that Rasengan vs Chidori came as tie because Naruto and Sasuke matched in power.
Not just because of their Jutsu's.
Kishi always tried to show them equal rivals.
This match will be like Naruto/Kakashi Rasengan clash. Naruto overpowered him.
So I think Naruto will overpower Raikiri because he just has more power .


----------



## Sword of the Morning (Jun 22, 2015)

Jiraiya: "I can teach you some moves (Rasengan) that makes Chidori look like baby stuff."

Naruto: "Cool, Pervy Sage when do we start!"

I think this dialogue they had sums it up.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jun 22, 2015)

Frankly, Minato has superior spatial manipulation here as it's stated that he takes spatial manipulation to the highest point which determines the scope and power of the jutsu.

 However, Raikiri is still a jutsu that requires advanced spatial manipulation and the amount of chakra released as well as their quality of chakra determines the strength of their jutsu. Minato certainly has a high quality of chakra in order to even handle Sage Mode and handle Kurama's Chakra though Kakashi's quality of chakra is arguably just as high, if not higher if we take into consideration that he can bring out the power of his MS to a comparable level to an Uchiha boosted by Hashirama and Ashura's Chakra and has the capacity to awaken Susano'o and handle Rikudou Chakra.

 Then, it simply boils down to how much chakra that can be released while still applying spatial manipulation and that would be arguably very hard to tell as Kakashi displays superb elemental recomposition along with spatial manipulation close to Sasuke's level which should imply that he can release quite a bit of chakra as well and it's already established that Minato has superb chakra control as well.

 For simplicity's sake, they're roughly equal.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Jun 22, 2015)

Sword of the Morning said:


> Jiraiya: "I can teach you some moves (Rasengan) that makes Chidori look like baby stuff."
> 
> Naruto: "Cool, Pervy Sage when do we start!"
> 
> I think this dialogue they had sums it up.



 Well, Sasuke's Chidori =/= Kakashi's Raikiri. It's as simple as that.


----------



## Euraj (Jun 22, 2015)

Amol said:


> Frankly it depends upon the caster.
> I always assumed that Rasengan vs Chidori came as tie because Naruto and Sasuke matched in power.
> Not just because of their Jutsu's.
> Kishi always tried to show them equal rivals.
> ...


I think Minato would just overpower Kakashi here too, but as far as Kakashi and Naruto's clash is concerned, Naruto beat Kakashi because he was absolutely just using a stronger jutsu; Fuuton: Rasengan.


----------



## ueharakk (Jun 24, 2015)

Raikiri is superior to chidori, but pretty much like any justsu out there, the strength depends on who's using it.  Naruto's final VoTe2 rasengan is still just a 'rasengan' but it's clearly more powerful than his earlier usage of oodama rasengan or even chou oodama rasengan.

anyways, assuming kakashi's chidori would be ~= Sasuke's chidori, this could go either way since Minato's normal rasengan is much stronger than Naruto's.


----------



## Csdabest (Jun 24, 2015)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> The way some people think is really narrow minded.
> 
> Sandaime Raikage's Hell stab is a B rank technique. Yet it is more powerful the Raikiri, if he clashed his hell stab with sasukes chidori or raikiri, he'd tear their arms off.
> 
> ...



im pretty sure the main reason why the Raikage is stronger is because he is overall More powerful than any Chidori users. He is able to generate greater force with his stab. We saw that chidori stab is greater with more velocity to increase peircing power. Raikage is simply a monstrous dude and I think he would be able to do the same feats as Hell stab even if he was using Raikiri or Chidori.


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 24, 2015)

"An expert with a pebble can still beat a novice with a shuriken."

Zetsu said that. Even if Sasuke's Chidori is a fundamentally weaker technique than Kakashi's Raikiri, he clearly mastered it to a level that he could equal or even out-power his teacher.

As for who wins the battle, I would put my bets on Minato, sheerly because the Rasengan appears to be a slightly stronger attack.​​


----------



## Dr. Leonard Church (Jun 24, 2015)

I'd tend to think Raikiri would win. Both techniques have been used on Tobi at some point in the manga: Minato's Rasengan couldn't do massive damage (it forced Tobi to retreat and cost him his arm, but he was clearly still functional and did not seem to give a darn) but Kakashi's Raikiri clearly did damage to Tobi since it went right through him and forced him to cough up blood 5s later.

As for what happens when the techniques meet...well, we don't have a 100% on which is better. BUT we have seen Rasengan vs Chidori in the hands of others. Sasuke's Chidori beat Naruto's Rasengan, and Kakashi's Raikiri (?) lost to Naruto's Futon: Rasengan. So go figure, I'd bet on Raikiri.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 24, 2015)

In what panel did Rasengan _ever_ lose to Chidori?


----------



## ShadoLord (Jun 24, 2015)

Minato's Rasengan was more impressive than Kakashi's Raikiri.


----------



## Euraj (Jun 24, 2015)

Rocky said:


> In what panel did Rasengan _ever_ lose to Chidori?


blown apart

Unless Sasuke activated another one after his first one hit, his Chidori kept going while Naruto's Rasengan evaporated. Though given what was implied at the end of the rooftop fight, you might be able to write that as Sasuke just having a better power-up.


----------



## Rocky (Jun 25, 2015)

I think the implication there is Naruto aiming for that headband because Sasuke said he couldn't scratch it.

Earlier in that fight, the two techniques literally stalemated.


----------



## Ryuzaki (Jun 25, 2015)

Raikiri has a higher kill count


----------



## Ashi (Jun 25, 2015)

^ Who did it kill worth a spam in the longrun


----------



## beyondsouske (Jun 25, 2015)

Minato's rasengan wastelanded the entire area where him and Obito were fighting.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 25, 2015)

IIRC Raikiri's entry explicitly said "when Kakashi uses Chidori, it is called Raikiri".

IMO I think the different names were there so Sasuke could use a move which would be associated with just him.


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Jun 25, 2015)

Raikiri = Chidori

Raikiri = nickname given to kakashis chidori because he cut lighhtning

There is no difference at all, apart from the name. It is the same jutsu. Gai already told us this in part 1.


----------



## StarlightAshley (Jun 30, 2015)

Rasengan is an Incomplete jutsu according to Minato, he considered it one for a reason.
Raikiri on the other hand is Kakashi's perfected version of Chidori, which is Rasengan's equivalent.
 So if you take 2 equal jutsus, and 1 is enhanced and the other isn't then it only makes sense to me that Raikiri would be superior.


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Jun 30, 2015)

StarlightAshley said:


> Rasengan is an Incomplete jutsu according to Minato, he considered it one for a reason.
> Raikiri on the other hand is Kakashi's perfected version of Chidori, which is Rasengan's equivalent.
> So if you take 2 equal jutsus, and 1 is enhanced and the other isn't then it only makes sense to me that Raikiri would be superior.



no, U are taking ''incomplete'' out of context.
And raikiri is not enhanced. it is the same jutsu as chidori in every capacity.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Jun 30, 2015)

Rasengan is a blunt-force destructive jutsu that blows up trees, steel water towers and creates surrounding craters on target impact and is manifested in the palm outside of the body. Mastered properly it's grinding power is enough to crush bodies into liquid (Obito's arm). This is an all-purpose close combat technique and is capable of both offense (grinding, force damage) and defense (spin current, force power to stop an incoming attack upon impact [Blades, opponent arm, opponent leg, thrown projectiles]). This technique is far from a certain kill, as Kabuto & Obito have shown. 

Raikiri is an unstoppable thrust capable of severing lightning bolts and up cutting terrain (trees, stone) in drag-transit and it is manifested around the hand of the user making it a weapon. It's a certain instant-kill technique because it's virtually guaranteed the technique will penetrate the target fully and destroy anything the hand comes into contact with. This is the ultimate assassination Ninjutsu because as a perfect blade it's penetration will not be denied and it pumps a healthy dose of concentrated stream lightning [1] into the target's body once executed ensuring death. 

If these two techniques were to clash logically Rasengan should come out on top because there is more impact behind it's hit, the one wielding Raikiri should immediately feel the impact force that is known to create craters around a hit target and their arm should severe and break along with their body falling back, as penetrative as the technique may be- clashing against Rasengan means the rest of your body is feeling the force and spin behind it- not just the raiton-coated/protected hand- the arm connected to it, the shoulder and of course the rest of the body. Minato's Rasengan impact force blew up the terrain around Obito and created a spiral-crater through his body that imprinted into the ground, Naruto's Rasengan was so powerful it instantly imprinted a crater around Itachi before he was thrown the ground [1]. The force behind that technique is far too great for Kakashi's arm to resist long enough to penetrate with his perfect blade- his arm would flail back into his chest and he'd be destroyed. 

In the manga it didn't happen this way- but the exchange was between Naruto & Sasuke where there was clear intent to create a believable rivalry. It resulted in a tie most of the time. The two Chidori's utilized against Naruto's Rasengan initially (pre-hagoromo) were a CS2 Black Chidori (Natural Energy Enhanced & Physical Strength Boost Enhancing Thrust) & the light-show Chidori  that looked to extend several inches in front of, and around his hand- which is not a normal Chidori- this gave Sasuke the same advantage Naruto had in releasing chakra beyond the length of his hand allowing the Raiton chakra to interact with Rasengan unattached to his hand and unencumbered by the limits and power of his arm and thus his body. He's essentially shooting Raiton beyond his hand to soften the Rasengan up for his hand to move through and deconstruct the Rasengan- this isn't a normal Chidori or Raikiri and as a result his arm wasn't flailed back and his body did not feel the full force of the Rasengan. Ironically, his Black Chidori was the same- his arm was coated in normal Raiton while an extra layer of Black Lightning extended beyond the his arm and that made contact with the Rasengan before his arm ever did [2]. Now, Chidori naturally coats the hand/arm in Raiton [1] - but the amount of Raiton he was releasing from his hand gave him a range advantage not normally seen with a basic Chidori- in short he extended his Chidori to stop the force impact and then his arm arrived once the Rasengan was softened. 

The post-hagoromo power up Chidori he used against Naruto was also range-extended and unnatural, as he had Enton cushioning the Chidori in front of it [1] and that Chidori was also a light show [2] clearly superior in output to his average variant .

This extended or inflated version of Chidori has to be equivalent to Naruto utilizing Odama Rasengan, instead of Rasengan. The author didn't allow him to use Odama Rasengan in any of their exchanges- but he did allow Sasuke to output stronger Chidori variants that clearly are an upgrade from his


----------

