# Post your tier lists



## Troyse22 (Aug 10, 2018)

Title, lets see new posters tier lists, and see if any old ones changed their minds


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 10, 2018)

The characters in each tier aren’t being ranked against each other, but that doesn’t mean they are equals either.


*Spoiler*: _Entry S Rank Level_ 



Asuma
Yamato
Sai
Fu
Torune
WA Shikamaru
WA Ino
WA Lee
WA Neji
WA Temari
WA Kankuro
Jugo
Suigetsu





*Spoiler*: _Peak Jonin level_ 



Part One Kakashi
Part One Kabuto
Zabuza
Hidan
WA Choji
BoS Naruto
FKS Darui





*Spoiler*: _Entry Kage_ 



Hokage Kakashi
Rasa
Mifune
Chiyo
Konan
War Arc Darui with Treasures
Kitsuchi






*Spoiler*: _Low Kage _ 



Part Two Kakashi
Wind Arc Naruto
Gai
Kisame
Deidara
Kakazu
Kage Summit Gaara
Start of Part Two Sasuke
Mei
K4






*Spoiler*: _Mid Kage _ 



Tsunade
War Arc Sakura
Orochimaru (no ET)
Onoki
Old Hiruzen
Sasori
3rd Raikage
4th Raikage
Hebi Sasuke
End of War Arc Gaara
Wild Hachibi






*Spoiler*: _High Kage_ 



Itachi (sick)
MS Sasuke
SM Naruto
Jiraiya
Kin (with tools)
Gin (with tools)
Killer Bee
3rd Raikage with Pot
Muu
Gengetsu 






*Spoiler*: _Top of conventional power structure_ 




50% Kyuubi
Minato
Prime Hiruzen
Tobirama
Prime Hanzo
Pein
MS Danzo
SM Kabuto (no ET)
MS Obito
Edo Itachi
EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
KCM Naruto (initial)






*Spoiler*: _Beyond conventional power structure_ 





Edo Nagato with Hachibi Chakra
KCM Minato
KCM2 Naruto
Wild 100% Kyuubi
Guruguru with Yamato






*Spoiler*: _“Demi God Tier”_ 





Rinnegan Obito (no Paths)
BM Naruto
EMS Sasuke(Jubito fight)





*Spoiler*: _Upper Demi-God Tier_ 



Post Juubito EMS Sasuke
BSM Naruto
BM Minato





*Spoiler*: _Founder (God) Tier_ 



VoTE Hashirama
Edo Hashirama
Edo Madara
VoTE Madara
Rinnegan Obito (with Paths)





*Spoiler*: _Transition tier_ 



One eyed SM Madara
Kabuto (with ET)
Orochimaru (with ET)





*Spoiler*: _Juubi Jin Tier_ 



Juubito
One eyed JJ Madara
Toneri 





*Spoiler*: _Next tier_ 



JJ Madara (post tree absorption)
Naruto (Post Rikudo Chakra)
Sasuke (Post Rikudo Chakra)





*Spoiler*: _Infinite Tsukuyomi Tier_ 



Triclops Madara
Hagoromo





*Spoiler*: _Top Tier_ 



Kaguya
Momoshiki

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 10, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Top of conventional power structure





Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Prime Hiruzen


Stop it 


Anyone you have in that tier would beat 3 Prime Hiruzens

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ARGUS (Aug 10, 2018)

Tiers not in order 

*Spoiler*: __ 



*Tier 0: *
Kaguya 

*Tier 1: *
Jin hagoromo 
TCM hamura  

*Tier 2: *
Hagoromo 
Hamura 
Prime Madara 

*TIer 3: *
DR JJ madara 
Adult Naruto 
VOTE naruto 
VOTE Sasuke 
Fused Momoshiki 

*Tier 4: *
Momoshiki 
Adult Sasuke 
RSM naruto 

*Tier 5: *
Rinnegan Sasuke 
Shinju Madara 1RG 
Ashura 
Indra 

*Tier 6: *
Juubito 

*Tier 7: *
8G Guy
DMS Kakashi
VOTE madara 
SM Hashirama 

*Tier 8: *
Edo madara 
EMS madara 
RT madara 
Edo Hashirama 
Toneri 

*Tier 9: *
BM Minato 
BSM Naruto 
Rinnegan Obito w/bijuu 
BM Naruto 

*Tier 10: *
Kinshiki 
EMS Sasuke  

*Tier 11: *
Nagato 

*Tier 12: *
DSM Kabuto 
Pein 
Early EMS Sasuke 
KCSM Naruto 
KCM Minato 
Edo Itachi
Edo Tobirama 
Killer Bee 
KCM naruto

*Tier 13: *
Living Itachi
Minato 
Tobirama 
MS Sasuke 
SM naruto 
Third Raikage 
7G Guy
War arc Kakashi
Muu
Gengetsu 
SM Jiraiya 
Ay 
Kisame 
Gaara 
Danzo  
Onoki 
Orochimaru 

*Tier 14: *
Tsunade
Deidara
Hiruzen 
Sasori 
Kakuzu
Mei 
Hanzo  
Sakura 


*Tier 15: *
the rest goes on, ill go into further detail later on

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Aug 10, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> The characters in each tier aren’t being ranked against each other, but that doesn’t mean they are equals either.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Entry S Rank Level_
> ...



Where would you place 

Darui
DMS Kakashi 
8th Gate Gai


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 10, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Darui


Before Boruto, Entry Level Kage.



> DMS Kakashi



Don’t know.



> 8th Gate Gai



I don’t give 8th Gate Gai his own level anymore than I give C0 Deidara or Shiki Fujin Minato their own level.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Shazam (Aug 10, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Before Boruto, Entry Level Kage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair enough. Assuming the same goes with Oro with ET


----------



## Bonly (Aug 10, 2018)

Mine is pretty much the same from September though a character or two might have been moved that I was too lazy to do this time around


*Spoiler*: __ 



*God Tier*

Kaguya
The Sage(Juubi Jin)
Juubi Jin Madara
Six Paths Naruto
Rinnegan Sasuke
Juubi Jin Obito
Eighth Gate Gai/Double MS Kakashi

*Top Tier*

Orochi
Kabuto
Edo Madara
Hashi
VotE Madara
Edo Minato
Rinnegan Obito
BSM Naruto
BM Naruto
EMS Sasuke
Nagato

*High Kage level*
MS Obito
Pain
Danzo
Itachi/Minato
Killer B/KCM Naruto
SM Naruto(War arc)/Kabuto(no Edo)
The Sannin(no Edo)/Tobi
Onoki

*Mid Kage level*

Danzo(No Koto)
MS Sasuke/SM Naruto(Kage summit)
The French Dude
Mu
Sandaime Raikage
Sasori
Kisame/Konan
Gaara
Kakuzu
Deidara
Mei
Kakashi/Gai
A
Rasa
Chiyo

*Low Kage level*
Hokage Kakashi/ Old Hiruzen
Mifune/Rusty Hanzo
Hidan
Healthy Kimi
Darui
Kitsuchi


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 10, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> 3rd Raikage with Pot





Bonly said:


> The French Dude


----------



## Eliyua23 (Aug 10, 2018)

I’m going to rank every character in order up until the last chapter of Boruto 


1. Kaguya
2. Momoshiki 
3. Hagoromo
4. Hamura
5. Jigen 

6. Naruto(Boruto)
7. Sasuke(Boruto)
8. Madara(Juubi)
9. Naruto(The Last)
10. Sasuke(The Last)
11. Toneri 
12. Ashura
13. Indra
14. Obito(Juubi)
15. Naruto(VOTEII)
16. Sasuke(VOTEII)
17. Toneri 

18. Kinshiki
19. Hashirama
20. Madara(EMS/Edo)
21. Obito(Rinnegan)

22. Naruto(Juubito Fight)
23. Minato(Juubito Fight)
24. Sasuke(Juubito Fight)
25. Kabuto(War Arc)
26. Orochimaru(Boruto)

27. Minato(Kurama Attack)
28. Obito(Kages Arc)
29. Naruto(War Arc)
30. Nagato(War Arc)
31. Gaara(Boruto
32. Itachi(War Arc)
33. Sasuke(War Arc)
34. Nagato(6 Paths of Pain)
35. Hiruzen(2nd War)
36. Sakura(Boruto)
37. Shin
38. Danzo
39. Kashin Koji 
40. Hanzo(2nd War)
41. Kushina 

42. Jiraiya 
43. Itachi(Uchiha Bros Arc)
44. Naruto(Kages Arc)
45. Sasuke(Kages Arc)
46. Tobirama
47. Izuna Uchiha 
48. Shisui Uchiha 
49. Fugaku Uchiha(Novel)
50. Killer Bee 

51. Orochimaru(Konoha Crush)/Spiral
52. Tsunade/Sakura(War)
53. Onoki 
54. Genjutsu 
55. Mu 
56. Gaara(War)
57. Darui(Boruto)
58. Onoki Granddaughter(Boruto)
59. Raikage(4th)
60. Raikage (3rd)
61. Kakashi(Prime)
61. Konohamaru(Boruto)
62. Choujiro(Boruto)
63. Mei
64. Sasori 
65. Rasa 
66. Naruto(Immortals)
67. Sasuke(Uchiha Brothers)
68. Kakashi(Pain Arc)
69. Gai
70. Kisame
71. Kakuzu
72. Deidara
73. Shikamaru(Adult)
74. Konan 
75. Adult Rookies(Lee , Chouji , Hinata, Ino , Kiba)

76. AO(Boruto)
77. Hidan
78. Kawaki 
79. Boruto
80. Mitsuki
81. Sarada 
82. Asuma
83. Mifune
84. Hanzo(Rusty)
85. Chiyo
86. Zabuza
87. Kimmimaro 
88. War Arc Rookies/Taka
89. Zetsu 
90. Yammato


----------



## Maverick04 (Aug 10, 2018)

Im gonna only use the strongest forms of the characters


*Spoiler*: _God Tier_ 




High God Tier:
Kaguya
Haguromo*
Momoshiki (After eating Kinshiki)
Madara (3 Eyed)

Mid God Tier:
Naruto
Sasuke
Kakashi (Rikudou amped DMS)
Obito (JJ)

Low God Tier:
Hamura*
Toneri
Ashura*
Indra*
Might Guy






*Spoiler*: _Pseudo God Tier_ 




Kabuto (DSM + Edo Tensei Summons)
Orochimaru (WA Hokage Summons)
Urashiki
Kinshiki
Hashirama (SM)
Minato (Edo BM)
Kurama





*Spoiler*: _Kage + Tier_ 




Nagato (Edo)
Kabuto (DSM)
Killer Bee (BM)
Gaara (Adult)
Tobirama
Itachi (Edo)
Spiral Zetsu*
Muu / Gengetsu
Hiruzen (Prime)*
Onoki
A3 / Gyuuki
SM Jiraiya
Son Goku / Kokuo
Hanzo (Prime)
Kin and Gin





*Spoiler*: _Kage Tier_ 




High Kage:
Orochimaru (Zetsu Body + Hydra)
Danzo
Shisui*
A4
Yagura
Saiken
Kisame (Merged With Samehada)
Sakura (Adult)
Tsunade

Mid Kage:
Roshi
Kakuzu
Mei
Sasori
Deidara
Chomei
3rd Kazekage

Low Kage:
Rasa
Kushina*
Shukaku
Isobu
Fuu / Utakata / Yugito / Han
Matatabi
Konan
Darui / Kurotsuchi / Chojuro
Chiyo
Rock Lee
Mifune
Suigetsu / Mangetsu
Kitsuchi
Hidan





*Spoiler*: _Jonin Tier_ 




High Jonin:
Kimimaro (Edo CS2 Hypothetical)
Choji (Adult)
Choza
Ao (With Ninja tools)
Karin (Chains)
Pakura
Yamato
Hiashi / Hizashi
Gari
Dodoi (WA)
Zabuza
Asuma

Mid Jonin:
Neji (War Arc)
Rest of the Swordsmen
Juugo (V2)
Sai (Adult)
Konohamaru (Adult)
Shinki
Mitsuki (SM)
Shino (Adult)
Shikamaru (Adult) / Shikaku
Temari / Konkuro (Adults)
Foo / Torune

Low Jonin:
Hanabi (Adult)
Hinata (Adult)*
Kiba (Adult)*
Haku
Kagura
Akatsuchi
TenTen (Adult)
Ino (Adult) / Inoichi
Genma / Raido / Aoba
Anko / Baki / Ibiki
Omoi / Karui / Samui
Hayate
Moegi / Udon (Adult)
Ebisu





*Spoiler*: _Chuunin Tier_ 




Sakon and Ukon
Tayuya / Kidomaru
Jirobo
Izumo / Kotetsu
Boruto
Metal Lee (With Gates)
Mirai
Sarada
Araya
Shikadai
Chocho
Iwabe
Yodo
Inojin




* --> Not sure


----------



## Speedyamell (Aug 10, 2018)

Rikudo/god tier:
Kaguya
Hagoromo
*hamura
Juubidara
Fused momoshiki
Juubi obito
Rsm naruto/rinnegan sasuke
*Indra/ashura
Toneri
Momoshiki
Kinshiki
Rinnegan madara
Dms kakashi
Gate of death guy


legendary tier:
Orochimaru w/edo
Bsm naruto
Hashirama
Rinnegan obito
Ems madara(w/kurama)
Nagato


Top tier:
Bm minato
Bm naruto~Byakugo sakura~Ems sasuke
Adult gaara
Sm kabuto
Kcm1 naruto
Ms obito
6pop


High kage tier:
Adult kurotsuchi
Adult chojuro
Ms sasuke~Sm naruto
Alive Minato
Itachi
Killa bee
sannin w/o edo
Tobirama
Danzo
Mu~Gengetsu
Onoki
Konan
A4~A3


Mid kage tier:
Sasori
7th Gate Gai~WA Kakashi,
Hiruzen
Mei
Hebi sasuke
WA sai
Kisame
Deidara
6th gate Gai
6th gate lee
Bm choji
WA gaara
Kakuzu
Kushina (w/chains)
Kitsuchi
WA Karin(w/chains)
Rasa


Low kage tier:
Wind naruto
WA neji/hiashi
3ts kakashi/3ts itachi
Wa Tenten with elemental fan/6path weaponery
Kimmimaro
dariu/mifune
Bos sakura
Chiyo
Yamato
WA temari
WA kankuro
Hidan
WA Asuma
Suigetsu


Jonin class:
P1 kakashi
Bos naruto(w/o kyuubi)
Zabuza/haku
Bos sai
Jugo
P1 kurenai
P1 Asuma
WA hinata


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

Kakashi and Gai are situational placements. It's not like they can be placed without restrictions. 

Kamui was going to end several Bijuu armed with TBBs at once (if at full strength)  and Gai can go god tier whenever he needs to. 

Name another low kage - Mid Kage with those options in their capabilities ?


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Kakashi and Gai are situational placements. It's not like they can be placed without restrictions.
> 
> Kamui was going to end several Bijuu armed with TBBs at once (if at full strength)  and Gai can go god tier whenever he needs to.
> 
> Name another low kage - Mid Kage with those options in their capabilities ?



Hiruzen


----------



## Kisame (Aug 11, 2018)

It's a rough draft. Gaara, Tsunade, Sakura, tier 4 and tier 6 were hard to rank.


*Tier 7*
47. Hidan
46. Rasa
45. Chiyo
44. Konan
43. Wind Arc Naruto


*Tier 6*
42. Mei
41. Kakuzu
40. Deidara
39. Sasori 
38. Kisame
37. Gai
36. Kakashi
35. War Arc Sakura
34. Tsunade
33. Hebi Sasuke
32. Gaara (War arc)
31. 4th Raikage 
30. 3rd Raikage


*Tier 5*
29. Onoki
28. Orochimaru
27. Mū
26. Gengetsu
25. Jiraiya
24. Sennin Naruto
23. MS Sasuke
22. Danzo


*Tier 4*
21. Tobirama
20. Itachi
19. Killer Bee
18. MS Obito
17. KCM Naruto
16. EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
15. Minato
14. SM Kabuto


*Tier 3*
13. Nagato
12. EMS Sasuke (Jūbito fight)
11. Bijū Mode Minato
10. Bijū Mode Naruto


*Tier 2*
9. EMS Madara
8. Rinnegan Obito (with Jinchūriki)
7.  Edo Madara
6. Hashirama


*Tier 1*
5. Jūbito
4. Rikūdo Sasuke
3. Rikūdo Naruto


*Tier 0*
2. Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara
1. Kaguya


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Tiers are more or less in order. Strongest to weakest within each tier. List doesnt necessarily account for every individual matchup tho. Thats impossible the further down you get toward Kage tiers (Tiers 3-5) and lower where that kind of shit is really important, so just because X is above Y in Tier 4, doesnt necessarily mean X cant beat Y provided the gap isnt huge. For instance...No one is climbing a full damn tier and beating someone within it because "matchup". Tried my best to include matchups as much as possible when placing anyone above someone else. Higher tiers are much easier to rank on power alone as sheer force makes matchups moot.

"/" indicates borderline interchangeability or no real difference

*Tier 0*

Kaguya
Hagoromo
Hamura
JJ Madara
Fused Momoshiki
Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke
Teen RSM Naruto
Teen Rinnegan Sasuke
Kinshiki
Toneri
JJ Obito
DMS Kakashi
8 Gate Gai
*Tier 1*

Rinnegan RT Madara (Both Eyes, Pre JJ)
Hashirama
VOTE Madara
Edo Madara
BM Minato
BSM Naruto
Rinnegan Obito (with Jins)
EMS Sasuke (Juubito fight)
*Tier 2
*
*I question the need of this tier due to virtually no one being in it, but those within it are simply too powerful to be clumped in with the guys below them, and simply too weak to compete with the tier above..Hence this

Nagato
SM Kabuto
*Tier 3*

Pain
EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
Living Minato
Tobirama
KCM Naruto
WA SM naruto
Mu
Itachi/MS Sasuke/Pre war SM Naruto
Ohnoki
Killer Bee (AT LEAST here...Unsure on solid placement tho. Refer to end of tier list for complications...I actually find Bee to be one of the hardest characters to place)
Gengetsu
Danzo
*Tier 4*

AAA
AAAA
Jman
Oro
Deidara
Gaara
Hebi Sasuke
Tsunade/War Arc Sakura
WA Kakashi
Gai (8th Gate Restricted)
Sasori
Kisame
Kakuzu
Mei

*Tier 5*

BoS Sasuke
Hiruzen
Konan
Darui
Rasa/Sandaime Kazekage
Chiyo
Mifune
*Tier 6*

Pre war Kakashi
Wind Naruto
Suigetsu
Jugo
Zabuza
Yamato
Hidan
Part 1 Kabuto
Healthy Kimimaro
*Tier 7*

War Choji
Asuma
War Neji
War Lee
Temari
Kankuro
Kurenai
*Tier 8*

BOS Naruto
Sai
Gated Part 1 Lee
SRA Gaara
Sick Kimimaro
*Tier 9*

VOTE 1 Sasuke
VOTE 1 Naruto
Part 1 Neji
Sound 4 (Individually)
*Tier 10*

Pre VOTE Sasuke
Pre VOTE Naruto
Part 1 Temari
Part 1 Shikamaru
Part 1 Shino
Part 1 Kiba
*Tier 11*

Tonton
Part 1 Konohamaru Ninja Squad
The Dirt
The worms inside of the dirt
Human feces
Part 1 Sakura

On Killer Bee...Unsure where exactly to put him, most people in Tier 3 (where he is tentatively placed) have techniques that make his BM state more of a liability than a strength. Such as Jinton or Amaterasu or FTG. Naruto also has feats of wrestling a Biju stronger than Gyuki. But Bees sheer power advantage he holds over literally everyone in Tier 3, and the ease with which he can output that power...His BM state almost merits he be bumped up an entire tier with Nagato and Kabuto in Tier 2.


----------



## Gianfi (Aug 11, 2018)

People not in order within tiers (only strongest form included):

Upper Deity Level:
Kaguya
Hagoromo
Momoshiki
Madara
Naruto
Sasuke 

Lower Deity Level:
Obito
Toneri
Kinshiki
The fisher man Otsuki 
God Kakashi 
8th Gate

Demi-God Level:
BM Minato
Hashirama
Nagato
Dsm Kabuto
Orochi w/ET

Legendary Level:
Pain
Tobirama
Itachi
Killer Bee
Onoki 
SM Jiraya 
Mu 
A3
Gengetsu
Adult Gaara 
Danzo 

Upper Kage Level
Adult Darui
Tsunade
Adult Sakura
A4
3rd Kamikaze
Sasori
Kisame 
Deidara
Kakuzu 
Yagura
Hiruzen
Hanzo
GuruGuru
Adult Lee

Lower Kage Level:
Mei 
Mifune
Konan
Rasa
Most of unknown Kage 
Chiyo
Adult Chojuro
Adult Kurotsuchi

Upper Jonin Level:
Hidan
Asuma
Kimimaro
Choji 
Neji
Shikamaru
Kurenai
Temari 
Yamato
Kankuro

Etc


----------



## Cliffiffillite44428 (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Kakashi and Gai are situational placements. It's not like they can be placed without restrictions.
> 
> Kamui was going to end several Bijuu armed with TBBs at once (if at full strength)  and Gai can go god tier whenever he needs to.
> 
> Name another low kage - Mid Kage with those options in their capabilities ?


Itachi. Totsuka and Tsukiyomi. HQ bypassing illusion technique. 

Those are 3 "God" tier moves in the arsenal of a "High Kage" level Individual.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Human feces
> 
> Part 1 Sakura



What's the difference?

Also on an unrelated note, how many psychedelic drugs did you ingest to reach the conclusion that KCM Naruto>Bee

Or Pein>Bee

Or Hebi Sasuke above the Masters and Kisame?

Bee is cleanly above literally everyone in the tier you have him posted in, that's not a biased opinion, that's fact.


----------



## cringe lord (Aug 11, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> What's the difference?
> 
> Also on an unrelated note, how many psychedelic drugs did you ingest to reach the conclusion that KCM Naruto>Bee
> 
> ...


Pain stomps bee, his chakra cloak won't work on the chakra absorber, also SM Jiraya stated he couldn't take 3 of them at once, never mind 6. And the deva path is on a whole new tier than the rest of them he took on a 6 tails tb state kyuubi which was the strongest. And there's the revival path for more annoyance.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Also on an unrelated note, how many psychedelic drugs did you ingest to reach the conclusion


I didnt reach a conclusion on Bee PERIOD kiddo

Read my post FOR ONCE if youre gonna quote it


WorldsStrongest said:


> On Killer Bee...*Unsure where exactly to put him*





WorldsStrongest said:


> he is *tentatively placed*





WorldsStrongest said:


> Killer Bee (*AT LEAST here*...*Unsure on solid placement* tho



That said...


Troyse22 said:


> how many psychedelic drugs did you ingest to reach the conclusion that KCM Naruto>Bee


Has something to do with the fact SM Naruto slapped around fucking Kurama if you must know

Kurama who is > Gyuki

And KCM Naruto > SM Naruto

Theres a very clear precedent for arguing KCM Naruto is possibly > Bee is

Maybe cool it with the drug accusations...Lest you further embarrass your own ass in the future

Tho i doubt this warning will help you anyway and youll just jump right back to square 1 and misquote me like you always do (and just did again)


Troyse22 said:


> Or Pein>Bee


Probably because Pain has a technique that can restrain and seal Kurama 

Kurama who is > Bee 

But again, Bees placement is tentative


Troyse22 said:


> Or Hebi Sasuke above the Masters and Kisame?


Cuz it can be easily argued he is for quite a few reasons

Especially over Kakashi as Sasukes entire shtick is being essentially "Kakashi+"

That said, they are all relative and literally AT THE TOP OF MY POST AKA THE FIRST THING YOU READ is the following


WorldsStrongest said:


> List *doesnt necessarily account for every individual matchup tho. Thats impossible* the further down you get toward Kage tiers (Tiers 3-5) and lower where that kind of shit is really important, so *just because X is above Y in Tier 4, doesnt necessarily mean X cant beat Y provided the gap isnt huge*


I swear kid, its like English isnt even your first language...If its not, that clears quite a few things up. And i apologize for being rude.

But if English is your first language...What the fuck is your excuse?


Troyse22 said:


> Bee is cleanly above literally everyone in the tier you have him posted in, that's not a biased opinion, that's fact.


Except no hes not "cleanly" above shit

And i went over several reasons why in my post AND this one

Everyone in that tier has a way of making Bees greatest state work against him in a big way.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

cringe lord said:


> Pain stomps bee, his chakra cloak won't work on the chakra absorber



Paths bar Deva have dogshit durability.

As shown in the Nagato battle, Bee will land a hit prior to it being absorbed.

He one shots preta no diff in V1 or V2. Hell Base Bees lariat put V1 Ay on his ass



cringe lord said:


> SM Jiraya stated he couldn't take 3 of them at once, never mind 6.




This is irrelevant since Bee>>>>>>>>>>SM Jiraiya


cringe lord said:


> he took on a 6 tails tb state kyuubi



No

He ran like a pussy

Bee ragdolls Pein

Bee is on another level, you'd need to restrict his BM and V2 for Pein to even have a shot, even then V1 still dumpsters the paths


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Has something to do with the fact SM Naruto slapped around fucking Kurama if you must know



With Bees and Kushinas assistance
 

Also he did things he couldn't do in the real world at that time, such as going into SM mid air

You're fucking delusional as fuck if you think that battle in Narutos headspace puts him above Bee

Impossible real world feats, AND outside assistance

"Bee<KCM Naruto"



No version of Naruto short of BM is superior to Bee.




WorldsStrongest said:


> Probably because Pain has a technique that can restrain and seal Kurama
> 
> Kurama who is > Bee
> 
> But again, Bees placement is tentative



Sure didn't help Nagato from shitting his pants watching 8 tailed wild Kyuubi rape his CT



WorldsStrongest said:


> Cuz it can be easily argued he is for quite a few reasons



No it can't LMFAO

I'm not getting into extensive debates for reasons I've stated before, but anyone who actually realistically thinks Hebi Sasuke beats more opponents than Kisame or Gai, or beats them in a 1v1 actually has a serious mental problem, and I'm simply incapable of helping them. I'd advise those people see a psychiatrist or maybe even a neurosurgeon ASAP.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> With Bees and Kushinas assistance


Bee caught 1 small TBB and Kushina didnt contribute until after some of Narutos most notable feats against kurama actually

And again...the Naruto in question is > that Naruto regardless, and Kurama is > Gyuki regardless



Troyse22 said:


> Also he did things he couldn't do in the real world at that time, such as going into SM


Which doesnt mean much of anything as i have him relative to SM naruto in my tier list, not base Naruto

Youre arguing matchup things now, which ive ALSO already accounted for at the top of my list

Yes if Bee fought Naruto in a chance encounter and immediately went for BM TBB spam hed fuck up Naruto who hasnt had a chance to breathe or even attempt to enter SM yet

But the same is true of most people in the same bracket as SM naruto...Thats why i specified "SM" Naruto and not "Naruto who starts in base" because if i did that the list would be about 10,000 words long as it wouldnt be a list...But a complicated breakdown of the pros and cons of each fucking characters powersets in relation to those above or below them...

But by all means generalize when ive already told you how fucking pointless it is 


Troyse22 said:


> You're fucking delusional as fuck if you think that battle in Narutos headspace puts him above Bee


And youre a moronic child who is literally arguing for the sake of arguing if you refuse to acknowledged the fact ive said "tentative" like 6 times now

I havent put Bee definitively above or below ANYONE thus far aside from Kurama...Because fucking obviously. All im doing is pointing out facts that merit discussion on the topic of Bees general standing while you get butthurt and analmad about it.

Youre incapable of following simple logic if you dont think that when you combine the 2 facts that KCM Naruto>>>SM Naruto and Kurama>>>Gyuki that KCM naruto compared to Gyuki becomes a fucking discussion.

Lest we ALSO forget, SM narutos clone fucking beat A3 who is Gyukis DEFINITIVE peer...

So that makes 3 fucking facts that merit discussion

You ignore these things for 0 reason and the state im the delusional one 


Troyse22 said:


> Sure didn't help Nagato from shitting his pants


>"Nagato was shitting his pants"



Do you get off on ignoring canon and making up your own conclusions or something?


Troyse22 said:


> I'm not getting into extensive debates


Youre not actually capable of having "debates" because you refuse to acknowledge facts...Case in point...This post ive just addressed where you twisted canon and/or blatantly ignored it and made up your own shit at every turn.

Its the main reason i have you on ignore and really only take you off when im bored and want to kill time by sharing my opinions with people in threads you just so happened to make


Troyse22 said:


> anyone who actually realistically thinks Hebi Sasuke beats more opponents than Kisame or Gai


Sasuke can easily beat characters they cant for many reasons.

Deidara is an opponent Sasuke defeated with less than his full effort and Deidara is a horrible matchup for Kisame OR Gai for several reasons.

Youre a moron if you dont think all of these names are comparable anyway 

And thats just one example

Youre also goalpost shifting now. First it was "How is Hebi on the same level as the Masters and Kisame" now its just down to "How does Hebi beat more people than Kisame and Gai" with a distinct absence of Kakashi

Slowly getting a concession it seems


Troyse22 said:


> I'd advise those people see a psychiatrist or maybe even a neurosurgeon ASAP.


You dont "go see" a neurosurgeon

Bit more to it than that


----------



## Eliyua23 (Aug 11, 2018)

1. Why are people ranking DMS Kakashi it was a temporary powerup given to him by Obito and was never used again after the War?

2. Why is Kakuzu being ranked above Naruto in the Immortals Arc 

3. Why is Immortals Arc Naruto so far below Hebi Sasuke 

4. Why do I see Hebi Sasuke and Deidara in the same tier as Jiraiya , I mean you would think this is 2012 same fucking shit over and over again smh


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Eliyua23 said:


> Why is Kakuzu being ranked above Naruto in the Immortals Arc


Because he never would have beaten him without help and the fact Kakuzu was considerably worn down upon Narutos arrival?



Eliyua23 said:


> Why is Immortals Arc Naruto so far below Hebi Sasuke


Because Naruto states he is?

And a 1 off jutsu that Sasuke can counter a million different ways that only works 50% of the time doesnt merit parity whatsoever?


Eliyua23 said:


> Why do I see Hebi Sasuke and Deidara in the same tier as Jiraiya


Cuz feats put them there as well as hype

Dont think you realize how vague a term a "tier" can be either


Eliyua23 said:


> I mean you would think this is 2012 same fucking shit over and over again smh


No instead its 2018 where morons think he can defeat Pain and Nagato despite SM Naruto, his stated better, failing to do so even after getting stronger than his SM state and fighting Pain a second time in KN6...Before losing again...


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 11, 2018)

Eliyua23 said:


> Why is Kakuzu being ranked above Naruto in the Immortals Arc


Because Kakuzu is better in virtually everything.


Eliyua23 said:


> Why is Immortals Arc Naruto so far below Hebi Sasuke


All Immortals Naruto has on BoS Naruto is the RS. Hebi Sasuke shat on Team 7 as a whole, granted Yamato was more than likely holding back.


Eliyua23 said:


> Why do I see Hebi Sasuke and Deidara in the same tier as Jiraiya , I mean you would think this is 2012 same fucking shit over and over again smh


Hebi Sasuke can at least push Jiraiya high diff, same for others in the tier. Not too sure about Deidara.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

Sage light said:


> Itachi. Totsuka and Tsukiyomi. HQ bypassing illusion technique.
> 
> Those are 3 "God" tier moves in the arsenal of a "High Kage" level Individual.



I didn't say name a high kage tier. Generally speaking people place the masters relatively low


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> *Hebi Sasuke can at least push Jiraiya high diff, *



Whole heartily disagree .

Base Jman alone could win that high diff. In SM it's a stomp


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Hebi Sasuke can at least push Jiraiya *high diff*





Shazam said:


> Whole heartily disagree .





Shazam said:


> Base Jman alone could win that *high diff*.


Then...Uhh...

No you fucking dont?


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Whole heartily disagree .
> 
> Base Jman alone could win that high diff. In SM it's a stomp



I shant say the BD needs another Sasuke vs Jiraiya thread... Someone might do it if this discussion progresses.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Then...Uhh...
> 
> No you fucking dont?



Hey Sasuke fan boy

If you quote me,  don't seem like you're having a stroke. 

SM Jiraiya >> Base Jiraiya > Hebi Sasuke


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> don't seem like you're having a stroke.



Relevant


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 11, 2018)

God tier

Kaguya
JJ Hagoromo
TCM Hamura
3 eyed juudara
2 eyed juudara
Hagoromo
Hamura

      Demi god tier

1 eyed shinjuu absorbed Juudara
Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke
Fused Momoshiki
Teen RSM naruto/teen rinnegan Sasuke
Juubito
Toneri
DMS kakashi
8 gates guy

       Top tier

Kabuto with ET
1 rinnegan SM madara
Oro with ET
SM hashirama
Edo Madara
EMS madara + kurama
BSM Naruto
BM minato
Rinnegan obito with edo paths
EMS sasuke post juubito fight
Killer bee
Kinshiki
Nagato
Guru guru Yamato


     High tier

6 paths of pain
DSM kabuto with no edo
Tobi
Prime Hanzou
Muu
Healthy Itachi
3rd raikage
Tobirama
Minato
MS sasuke
Prime Hiruzen
Ohnoki
Jman
War arc SM naruto
Gengetsu
Gaara
Tsunade
7 gates guy
Kisame
Raikage 
Gin/kin bros
War arc MS kakashi
Danzou without KA
Kakuzu
Sasori
Deidara
Hebi Sasuke


Its really hard lol, thats the best i can do.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Relevant



Entirely.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Hey Sasuke fan boy
> 
> If you quote me,  don't seem like you're having a stroke.
> 
> SM Jiraiya >> Base Jiraiya > Hebi Sasuke


Thats great Jman slut

And also not my point at all

SM Jman beats Hebi handily sure, no one in their right mind argues that, but as you just stated yourself you think Jman vs Sasuke in base is a tough fight. Meaning Jman doesnt enter SM with any ease whatsoever if you be consistent in anyway whatsoever with your analysis.

Jman, whether SM is on the table or not, gets pushed to high diff by Hebi Sasuke.

Of course, its a totally different manner if he starts in the mode.


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Thats great Jman slut
> 
> And also not my point at all
> 
> ...



Only those who hate or totally downplay the Sannin would say that Jiraiya would struggle to get into SM against Hebi Sasuke under neutral conditions. The only time we ever see him going to Sage Mode he's successfully done so against opponents with interlocking eyesight. You mean tell me your sasuke is going to stop him or make it high-extreme diff to do so with likely no intel of such transformation?  Keep dreaming kid.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Only those who hate or totally downplay the Sannin would say that Jiraiya would struggle to get into SM against Hebi Sasuke


So in your mind an opponent can push Jman to High fucking diff in your own words is incapable of even fucking contesting him when he forgoes use of his goddamn hands?

Are you aware how asinine that is to say?


Shazam said:


> The only time we ever see him going to Sage Mode he's successfully done so against opponents with interlocking eyesight.


Dont make shit up

He went SM against ONE OPPONENT

A SINGLE path of pain...Not several...And taht path of Pain straight up avoided direct confronattionas stated by Jman himself so its hardly like he was contested in it to any great degree.

Outplaying Animal path isnt the same as outplaying Pain so stop dishonestly presenting it as such


Shazam said:


> You mean tell me your sasuke is going to stop him or make it high-extreme diff


"My Sasuke" who is also apparently your sasuek as you stated you also hold him as a high diff tier opponent for Jman in base

And youre a moron if you dont think someone who is comparable to your base can actively prevent you from prepping a prep heavy technique with steep prerequisites


Shazam said:


> do so with likely no intel of such transformation?


Why does he need intel on SM to realize Jman is much more vulnerable without the use of his hands


Shazam said:


> Keep dreaming kid.


Get consistent 

You stated Sasuek pushes Base Jman to High diff yet dont think he can contest SM prep...

Youre delusional


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Aug 11, 2018)

*S Tier*
01 Kaguya
02 Naruto
03 Sasuke
04 Madara
05 Hashirama
06 Obito
07 Nagato
*A Tier*
08 Kabuto
09 Itachi
10 0rochimaru
11 Hiruzen
12 Minato
13 Jiraiya
14 Danzou
15 Sasori
16 Tobirama
17 Muu
18 3rd/4th Raikage
19 Kirabi
*B Tier*
20 Onoki
21 kakuzu
22 trollkage
23 Tsunade
24 Hanzo
25 kisame
26 Deidara
27 Gaara
28 Kakashi
29 Chiyo
30 Konan
*C Tier*
31 Yamato
32 Terumi Mei
33 Kimimaro
34 Hyuuga Hiashi
35 Zabuza
36 Darui
37 Asuma
38 Sai
39 Kitsuchi
40 Choji
*D Tier*
41 Haku
42 Kurotsuchi
43 Suigetsu
44 Temari
45 Kidomaru
46 Kiba
47 Kankuro
48 Tayuya
49 Jirobo
50 Shino

*Spoiler*: _--not included--_ 



Hagoromo & Zetsu
-Kinkaku/Ginkaku
-Maito Gai (any/all versions)
-edo tensei|Koto amatsu kami|Tsukiyomi
-yagura, Mifune, Juugo & Hidan
-the other 5 junchuriki
-50% friendship mode Minato
-iron sand kage/gold sand kage
-5 minute ''Fuuu-sion-HAA-!!'' Kakashi
-- or any other redundant, illegitimate or insubstantial ninja-


----------



## Shazam (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> So in your mind an opponent can push Jman to High fucking diff in your own words is incapable of even fucking contesting him when he forgoes use of his goddamn hands?
> 
> Are you aware how asinine that is to say?
> 
> ...



Entire post reeks of a Sasuke fan boy.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Entire post reeks of a Sasuke fan boy.


Entire post reeks of a child whos been called out on having double standards and wont admit to it 

>Sasuke can push Jman to High Diff
>Magically incapable of even contesting SM prep

topkek


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> SM narutos clone fucking beat A3 who is Gyukis DEFINITIVE peer



Bee>A3=Wild Gyuuki

As the manga makes clear, Perfect Jins>>Bijuus on their own

Bee would murder A3, let's not kid ourselves



WorldsStrongest said:


> Deidara is an opponent Sasuke defeated with less than his full effort and Deidara is a horrible matchup for Kisame OR Gai for several reasons.



One example LMFAO

I could list off multiple good matchups for Kisame as well

Your arguments only look solid to new posters because you present them dishonestly


Gai Asakujakus Sasuke, he dies

Hell Base Gai beats Hebi Sasuke

Boulder smashing strength is not something Sasuke has been shown capable of dealing with

Samehadaless Kisame rapes Sasuke.

If Sasuke is IC he runs in to try to blitz Kisame

And unless you're gonna push base Sasuke>V1 Bee in speed, Kisame literally punches him into the ground

Kisame would shatter every bone in Sasukes body before he even gets a chance to say "whoops"



WorldsStrongest said:


> >"Nagato was shitting his pants"
> 
> 
> 
> Do you get off on ignoring canon and making up your own conclusions or something?



He can say whatever he wants

Doesn't mean he was in a medically fit condition to do it

He was coughing out blood using Shinra Tensei against Hinata, and he was EXHAUSTED using CT

He had the juice for 2 more STs.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Youre not actually capable of having "debates" because you refuse to acknowledge facts...Case in point...This post ive just addressed where you twisted canon and/or blatantly ignored it and made up your own shit at every turn.
> 
> Its the main reason i have you on ignore and really only take you off when im bored and want to kill time by sharing my opinions with people in threads you just so happened to make



I'm not gonna respond to you twisting the manga to fit your Sasuke wank

I'm gonna start playing find the link to Sasuke

Naruto is according to you above Bee
Naruto is portrayed as equals to Sasuke
Therefore Sasuke is above Bee

Found the link



WorldsStrongest said:


> You dont "go see" a neurosurgeon
> 
> Bit more to it than that



You would know...


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

walpurgis Burgoo said:


> Hashirama
> 06 Obito



Hashirama>>JJ Obito????


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Entire post reeks of a Sasuke fan boy.



Yeah he does that

My favorite one is where he pushes Hebi Sasuke>MS Sasuke


----------



## wooly Eullerex (Aug 11, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Hashirama>>JJ Obito????


no, if i was factoring -JJ obito/madara- then kaguya wouldn't be in the list

i try to avoid redundancy


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Bee>A3=Wild Gyuuki
> 
> As the manga makes clear, Perfect Jins>>Bijuus on their own


The manga also makes clear that SM naruto fought Kurama and did very well against him and KCM Naruto is decidedly above SM naruto and Kurama is decidedly above Gyuki or Bee

You only use canon when it suits you?

Or do you just enjoy not addressing anm entire argument?

lol


Troyse22 said:


> Bee would murder A3


Bee isnt murdering jack shit 

Gyuki was incapable of harming A3...Him getting a nakama boost from Bee isnt gonna make up that gap to the point A3 is irrelevent

Bee could win for sure, not contesting that, but "murder"?

Wake up


Troyse22 said:


> One example LMFAO
> 
> I could list off multiple good matchups for Kisame as well


Thats great champ

You completely missed my point again tho

Im just saying they would all need to be comparable in general for the matchups to matter to them to such an extreme defree

As i noted in literally every post ive made in this thread addressing you so far

Kisame loses to people Sasuke can beat, and Sasuke might lose to people Kisame can beat

Hence peers 

Hence same tier 


Troyse22 said:


> Your arguments only look solid to new posters because you present them dishonestly


Your arguments look good to no posters because you ignore the manga in order to make half of them


Troyse22 said:


> Gai Asakujakus Sasuke, he dies


Or he blocks with Snake summons combined with a CS2 wing that could protect him from massive CS2 explosions

Remember how you think C2 is a CT busting threat 

Guess Hebi Sasukes wing is a CT tier construct by your logic 

Or he oral rebirths 

Or he summons Manda or Aoda to tank that shit for him neg diff


Troyse22 said:


> Hell Base Gai beats Hebi Sasuke


Fucking sig worthy 

Make the thread right fucking now

I dare you 

Or ill do it and tag you in it

Base Gai vs Hebi Sasuke


Troyse22 said:


> Samehadaless Kisame rapes Sasuke.


Samehadaless Kisame doesnt even get access to your fanfic arguments of the Samehada partner method to beat Genjutsu


Troyse22 said:


> If Sasuke is IC he runs in to try to blitz Kisame
> 
> And unless you're gonna push base Sasuke>V1 Bee in speed, Kisame literally punches him into the ground


Yet you are doing the exact same fucking thing and are arguing that Kisame is tiers faster than V1 Bee when you argue he can tag Hebi Sasuek with no reaction

Dude teh double standards and just total bullshit in this post is riduclous

A weakened 3T sasuke while in base could react to V1 Bee in mid fucking air from a distance no greater than 5m away...

Kisame isnt fucking tagging a fresh Sasuke with the possibility of a CS amp thrown in there with no reaction on sasukes part with that in mind

Wake up


Troyse22 said:


> He can say whatever he wants
> 
> Doesn't mean he was in a medically fit condition to do it


Yet apparently every fucking time Kisame says he can do something its gospel 

Even when he has 0 fucking intel on his opponents capabilities

Add double standards to the list of nonsense in this single post

Nagato knows his own limits just fine. If he states he can make a bigger CT, and IMMEDIATELY moves to do just that,he can make a bigger fucking CT.


Troyse22 said:


> He was coughing out blood using Shinra Tensei against Hinata, and he was EXHAUSTED using CT


And went on to fight SM naruto again with 0 issues despite making that CT


Troyse22 said:


> He had the juice for 2 more STs.


Jesus christ, will you wake up troy 

He had the juice to revive the entire goddamn leaf village with Rinne Rebirth on top of the fight he had with naruto after making that CT

He easily could have enhanced teh CT as he claimed


Troyse22 said:


> I'm not gonna respond to you twisting the manga to fit your Sasuke wank


Youre straight up moronic if you thought this was clever or witty on your part

And if you didnt think the irony was instantly recognizable 

This is literally what ive been accusing you of doing this entire thread and you seriously think you throwing it back in my face because you cant refute my points any other way was gonna go unnoticed?

As you proceed to make an entire post filled with fucking nonsense and you constantly do the thing you just accused me of?

All of my lols

And the largest of Ls for that ass



Troyse22 said:


> I'm gonna start playing find the link to Sasuke
> 
> Naruto is according to you above Bee
> Naruto is portrayed as equals to Sasuke
> Therefore Sasuke is above Bee


I like find the link to Kisame better



Kisame according to you is above Bee despite never fighting Bees full power
Bee is shown supporting BM naruto at one point before being grossly overshadowed by him
You ignore the fact Bee is outplayed by Naruto by a massive margin, as you ignore the vast majority of this manga, so you can wank Kisame to BM narutos level...An entire 4 tiers higher than Kisame actually belongs
Found the link


Troyse22 said:


> You would know...


I would actually

I have several friends who are in med school 

Im also not a moron and know what the concept of an "appointment" and "preliminary tests" are


----------



## Ghost Of The Uchiha (Aug 11, 2018)

Characters within each and every tier are ordered, i tried to include gaps to better specify the distance between tiers.


*Chakra Fruit Tier
*
Kaguya
* 
                            God Tier                               *

Jin Hagoromo

Rinne-Sharingan Madara

TCM Hamura


*Rikudo Tier*

S06P Madara

 Hagoromo

Hamura

Fused Momoshiki

VOTE 2 Naruto  w/AA

VOTE 2 Sasuke w/BPS

Adult Naruto

Adult Sasuke

*Gap*

RSM Naruto

Shinju Jin Madara w/ 1RG

Rikudo Sasuke

Rikudo Madara w/ 1RG

*Demi God Tier
*
JJ Obito

DMS Kakashi

Indra

Ashura

DRSM Madara

8G Guy

Cloakless RSM Naruto

*Legendary Tier*

Toneri

Last BSM Naruto

SM Hashirama

VOTE Madara

*Gap*

RT Madara w/Limbo

EMS Madara

Edo Madara

DMS Obito

BM Minato

BSM Naruto

Rinnegan Obito w/Bijuu

*Gap*

EMS Sasuke w/PS

BM Naruto

Blind Madara w/SM

Base Hashirama

*Mythical Tier
*
EMS Sasuke

Nagato

Rinnegan Obito

 Kinshiki

*Gap*

DSM Kabuto

Pain

Edo Tobirama

Edo Itachi

KCM Minato

KCM Naruto

Killer Bee

*High Kage Tier*

Hokage Minato

Alive Tobirama

MS Obito

Healthy Itachi

WA MS Kakashi

MS Izuna

3TS Madara

WA SM Naruto

7G  Guy

*Gap*

MS Sasuke

KN6 Naruto

FKS SM Naruto

Ay 3

Mu

Gengetsu

Onhoki

WA Gaara

Kisame

Sakumo

*Mid Kage Tier
*
Danzo

SM Jiraiya

Orochimaru

Ay 4

Yagura

Byakugo Tsunade

WA Sakura

Hanzo

Edo Hiruzen

Tobi's Six Paths Of Pain (BM Jins)

*Low Kage Tier*

Mei

KN4 Naruto

Hebi Sasuke

BOS Sasuke

3TS Itachi

Hokage Kakashi

Sasori

Deidara

Konan

Wind Naruto

Kakuzu

Rasa

Chiyo

Hidan

Kin/Gin

Darui

Kurotsuchi

Chojuro

*Elite Jonin Tier*

Zabuza

Healthy CS2 Kimimaro

3TS  Kakashi w/ Raikiri

7 Swordsmen Of The Mist

Hiashi

Hizashi

Asuma

Kurenai

Suigetsu

Jugo

Karin

Mifune

6G Lee/ WA Neji

Hinata

*Jonin Tier*

Haku

SRA Gaara

5G Lee

VOTE Sasuke CS2+3TS

VOTE Naruto KN1

*High Chunin Tier*

CE Gaara

Sakon/Ukon

SRA Neji

Kidomaru

Tayuya

SRA Temari

SRA Kankuro

*Chunin Tier*

CE Sasuke CS1+2TS+Chidori

CE Naruto KN0

CE Neji

SRA Choji

Jirobo​

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> The manga also makes clear that SM naruto fought Kurama



Bee saved Naruto lmfaoooooooooooo 



WorldsStrongest said:


> Gyuki was incapable of harming A3



It's not like A3 was walking around tanking Bijuudamas

He dodged Gyuki clearly, since FRS damaged him significantly, he's obviously not tanking a TBB.

The moment Bee goes V2, A3 loses

As the man himself so adamantly believes

The new generation will always surpass the old.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Kisame loses to people Sasuke can beat, and Sasuke might lose to people Kisame can beat




Don't say might for Kisame beating opponents
And speak in such certainties for Sasuke

Just stop it.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Or he blocks with Snake summons combined with a CS2 wing that could protect him from massive CS2 explosions
> 
> Remember how you think C2 is a CT busting threat
> 
> ...



C2 spam breaks the core

Only 1 or 2 break Sasukes wing

Quite the difference my dude

What's stronger

1 FRS against 1 target
Or 100?



WorldsStrongest said:


> Samehadaless Kisame doesnt even get access to your fanfic arguments of the Samehada partner method to beat Genjutsu



Kisame was confident standing against Tsukuyomi

He laughs at Sasukes genjutsu



WorldsStrongest said:


> Yet you are doing the exact same fucking thing and are arguing that Kisame is tiers faster than V1 Bee



Kisame countered Bees V1 blitz

Actually countered

In terms of speed in CQC (arm movement, kicking, dodging etc) Kisame is absolutely faster than Bee going by feats



WorldsStrongest said:


> A weakened 3T sasuke



Just gonna ignore you when you pedal stupid fucking shit like this

Take your Hebi Sasuke>>>>MS Sasuke BS somewhere else, k?



WorldsStrongest said:


> Nagato knows his own limits just fine. If he states he can make a bigger CT, and IMMEDIATELY moves to do just that,he can make a bigger fucking CT



He can do it

But he might die

Was my point.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Jesus christ, will you wake up troy
> 
> He had the juice to revive the entire goddamn leaf village with Rinne Rebirth on top of the fight he had with naruto after making that CT
> 
> He easily could have enhanced teh CT as he claimed




The fight after the CT is what I'm referencing regarding 2 ST's

Nagato is either gonna die or be in a TKOd condition increasing the power of his CT.

Nagato is a monster, and I'll give him the BOTD

But after the increase he better have Naruto permanently trapped, because Nagato is out of commission for a good while



WorldsStrongest said:


> I like find the link to Kisame better
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Find the link is my game, and you're not even doing it right 

Also I've already said BM Naruto>BM Bee


----------



## Eliyua23 (Aug 11, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Because he never would have beaten him without help and the fact Kakuzu was considerably worn down upon Narutos arrival?
> 
> 
> Because Naruto states he is?
> ...



You forget Naruto was also at a disadvantage , he  was exhausted from training , didn’t have Gambuta or any of his other Toad Summons and didn’t utilize KN3 so it’s like both were nerfed but FRS proved to make the difference. 

The point of the Immortals Arc was to compete with Kirin , KN3 = Hebi , Manda=Gambuta and they both were much weaker than MS Itachi , I don’t see any accomplishment that places him above Immortals Arc Naruto by a tier 

Feats put Deidara on Jiraiya’s Level , Jiraiya trolled Konan and Kisame two ninjas on Deidara’s Level in Base , with Sage Mode he was able to somewhat push Pain in his home terrain with zero knowledge a Itachi who was much stronger than a Hebi Sasuke who wipes the floor with Deidara stated he would have a difficult time with Jiraiya and Sage Mode like MS puts characters on a whole other level than even normal Kage , now Deidara might be able to push Jiraiya in Base but Sasuke’s bootleg Hebi powers ain’t touching Sage Mode , I mean how on earth is he going to defend himself also remember Jiraiya has the knowledge advantage over Hebi Sasuke as well.


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 11, 2018)

*Spoiler*: __ 




*
God Tier*

Kaguya
Hagoromo(Juubi Jin)
Juubi Jin Madara
Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke
Six Paths Naruto
Rinnegan Sasuke
Juubi Jin Obito
Eighth Gate Gai/Double MS Kakashi

*Top Tier*
Kabuto(SM, Manda 2, Edos)
Orochimaru (War arc Edos)
Hashi
VotE Madara
Edo Minato
Rinnegan Obito
BSM Naruto
BM Naruto
EMS Sasuke(PS)
Nagato

*High Kage level*
MS Obito
Pain/Minato/Prime Hiruzen
Tobirama
Danzo
Killer B/KCM Naruto
EMS Sasuke(Kabuto fight)
SM Naruto(War arc)
Itachi/SM Jiraiya
SM Naruto(pain arc)/MS Sasuke
Onoki/TsunadeOrochimaru/Muu


*Mid Kage level*
Muu/Gengetsu
Danzo(No Koto)
Sandaime Raikage
Kisame
Gaara
Sasori
Konan
A4
Kakuzu
Deidara
Mei
Kakashi/Gai
Rasa
Chiyo

*Low Kage level*

Hokage Kakashi/ Old Hiruzen
Mifune/Rusty Hanzo
Darui
BOS Sasuke
Hidan
Kitsuchi
Zabuza/War Neji

*Jounin*

Shikamaru
Yamato
Asuma
War Lee
War Kankuro
War Temari
Chouji
Kurenai
*
Chunin*
Sasuke Rescue Arc Gaara
VOTE 1 Naruto /Sasuke
CE Neji/CE Shika
CE Kankuro/CE Temari / Shino


----------



## Alita (Aug 11, 2018)

Rules for my list is that I'm not using edo tensei at all since they are a pain in the ass to rate due to unlimited chakra and edo regen, not including characters we do not know enough about to judge such as han, shisui Uchiha, indra, or the 1st raikage, and canon feats/characters only. By canon I'm only including stuff from Naruto manga and the movie with toneri in it. As well as the boruto anime and manga. The highest tier will be upper god tier and lowest will be low kage tier. Anyone I don't consider at least low kage tier will not be included. Everyone in these hypothetical matchups are bloodlusted by default so they will not fuck around and try to take out their opponents as fast and as efficiently as possible meaning A4 will go V2 and try to blitz immediately, Killerbee and Yagura will go bijuu mode immediately and spam bijjudama, WA Kakashi will go for kamui spam immediately, etc. Characters also have no knowledge on their foes capabilities and they fight in a neutral setting that doesn't advantage or disadvantage one character over the other. And yes they are ranked in order from the strongest at the top of the highest tier to the weakest at the bottom of the lowest tier.

*God Tier (Upper)*
- Prime Kaguya
-Base kaguya/JJ Hagomoro
-Tenseigan Hamura
-DMS Kakashi
-Prime Juubi
-Base Hagomoro/Base Hamura
-Transformed Tenseigan Toneri (Only cause of his chakra absorption hax. Without it he would be in mid god tier range.)
-Transformed momoshiki/Triclops Juudara
*God Tier (Mid)*
-Base momoshiki
-Rikudou Sage Mode Naruto/Rinnegan Sasuke
-Juudara (After absorbing the shinju tree.)
-Kinshiki/Urashiki/Base Naruto (After gaining rikudou power.)
-Adult Gaara
-Base Tenseigan Toneri
-Adult Kurotsuchi
-Adult Choujiro
-Adult Darui
*God Tier (Low)*
-Juudara (Before absorbing the shinju)
-Juubito (Stablized)
-8th Gate Gai
-Juubito (Unstable)
-Stage 4 Juubi
-Stage 3 Juubi
-Stage 2 Juubi
*Top Tier (High)*
-SM Hashirama
-Stage 1 Juubi
-EMS Madara
-100% Prime Kyuubi
-Base Hashirama
*Top Tier (Mid)*
-Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto
-Bijuu Mode Minato
-Bijuu Mode Naruto
-50% Kyuubi/EMS Sasuke (Juubito fight)
*Top Tier (Low)*
-Bijuu 1 to 8/Killerbee/Yagura
-Danzou with Koto
-Rinnegan Obito
*High Kage Tier*
-KCM Minato
-War Arc Kakashi
-Nagato
-MS Obito
-SM Kabuto/Muu
-A3
-KCM Naruto/EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
-6 paths of pein
-Gedo Mazo
-Healthy MS Itachi
-Kinkaku and Ginkaku with sage weapons(V2 transformations)
-KN6
-A4/V2 Manda
-Sick MS Itachi/7th Gate Gai
-Danzou without Koto
-MS Sasuke/Tobirama/Five Kage Summit Kakashi
-Onoki
-SM Naruto
-Byakugou Sakura
-Kisame
-Gengetsu
-War Arc Gaara
*Mid Kage Tier*
-Base Minato
-Prime Hiruzen
-SM Jiraiya
-Kakuzu
-Hydra Orochimaru
-Hebi Sasuke (Without oro's assistance)
-Deidara
-Byakugou Tsunade
-6th Gate Gai/6th Gate Lee/KN4
-Itachi without MS
-Base orochimaru/Manda/Aoda
-Mei Terumi
-Kitsuchi
-Gaara (FKS)
*Low Kage Tier*
-Sasori (Kazekage rescue arc)/BOS sasuke
-3rd Kazekage
-Prime Chiyo/Immortals arc kakashi
-Kinkaku and Ginkaku with sage weapons (Base)
-Old Hiruzen/Immortals arc Naruto
-Base Jiraiya/Shin Uchiha
-Base Sakura (As an adult)
-Base Tsunade
-War Arc Karin with chains
-War Arc Choji/Rasa
-Rusty Hanzou
-Mifune/BOS Naruto
-CS2 Juugo
-War Arc Darui/Shikamaru (Adult)
-Gamabunta/Kazekage rescue arc kakashi
-War Arc Sai
-War Arc Temari
-War Arc Kankuro


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 11, 2018)

Bruh...

> Base Jiraiya below Immortals arc Naruto


>Base Momoshiki above Rinne Sauce and RSM Naruto



> DMS Kakashi over hagoromo, 3 eyed Juudara, and Rikudo Naruto/Sasuke



> Minato in mid kage tier below war arc sakura, Kisame SM Naruto and MS Sasuke



> Muu on par with SM Kabuto



> Adult Gaara, Adult Kurotsuchi, Adult Choujiro, Adult Darui in god tier ABOVE Juudara, Juubito, 8 gated guy and the juubi


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 11, 2018)

Serene Grace said:


> > Base Jiraiya below Immortals arc Naruto


I didnt see this...But if its in here somewhere thats outright gross

And thats coming from me


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 11, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Rules for my list is that I'm not using edo tensei at all since they are a pain in the ass to rate due to unlimited chakra and edo regen, not including characters we do not know enough about to judge such as han, shisui Uchiha, indra, or the 1st raikage, and canon feats/characters only. By canon I'm only including stuff from Naruto manga and the movie with toneri in it. As well as the boruto anime and manga. The highest tier will be upper god tier and lowest will be low kage tier. Anyone I don't consider at least low kage tier will not be included. Everyone in these hypothetical matchups are bloodlusted by default so they will not fuck around and try to take out their opponents as fast and as efficiently as possible meaning A4 will go V2 and try to blitz immediately, Killerbee and Yagura will go bijuu mode immediately and spam bijjudama, WA Kakashi will go for kamui spam immediately, etc. Characters also have no knowledge on their foes capabilities and they fight in a neutral setting that doesn't advantage or disadvantage one character over the other. And yes they are ranked in order from the strongest at the top of the highest tier to the weakest at the bottom of the lowest tier.
> 
> *God Tier (Upper)*
> - Prime Kaguya
> ...


Rinnegan Obito below Bijuu 1-8 and Killer Bee?


----------



## Topace (Aug 12, 2018)

I stan gaara down but uhhh Him above the low god tier? He isn’t t even god tier himself . If anything he should sit at the top of High Kage or Low top tier.

Also why don’t people use the strongest form? These cluttered ass tier list at least make them look presentable if you are going to be naming 100 people.


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 12, 2018)

Alita54 said:


> Mifune/BOS Naruto



...


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 12, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Hell Base Gai beats Hebi Sasuke
> 
> Boulder smashing strength is not something Sasuke has been shown capable of dealing with


 Chapter 358 page 9 

Also as a reminder:
chapter 7 Sasuke could vaporize a chunk of the ground with a fireball ("boulder smashing level")
Haku's ice mirror could tank said justu (kid Sasuke katon < Haku ice)
Haku survived being punched through his mirror (kid Sasuke katon < Haku ice >= Haku durability)
Kid Sasuke could make Haku bleed with physical attack (kid Sasuke katon < Haku ice >= Haku durability >=< kid Sasuke physical attack)
kid Sasuke physical attack ≤  kid Sasuke katon = "boulder smashing strength"

anyway, here mine:

*GOD TIER:*

Juubi Jinchuriki SOSP (could fight prime Kaguya in base, add the juubi on top of that and you have the strongest in the verse)

Prime Kaguya

Homura (comparable to base Hagaromo who could give Naruto and Sasuke enough power to contend with Kaguya)


*THREE QUARTER GOD TIER:*

Fuse Momoshiki (could fight adult Naruto and Sasuke at the same time)

Three eye Madara (fought SPSM Naruto and rinnegan Sasuke and had the upper hand tough not nearly to the extent some would have you believe)

Adult Sasuke

Adult Naruto


*JESUS TIER:*

Double rinnegan Madara

Jesus Naruto

Jesus Sasuke

God tree Madara


*QUARTER GOD TIER:*

Juubidara

Juubito

Toneri

DMS Kakashi

8th gate Guy

Kinshiki


*LEGENDARY TIER:*

SM Hashirama

Edo Madara (rinnegan + wood style)

Kyuusanoo EMS Madara

SM BM Naruto

Senjustu Susano Sasuke

1rd form Juubi


*HIGH BIJUU TIER:*

EMS Madara

Hashirama

BM Naruto

BM Minato


*BIJUU TIER:*

Obito (with jin)

Killer B (Tobirama got killed by Gin/Kin with a vague shard of Kuybi chakra, Guy considered using the 8th gate to deflect bijuu bomb, The Gokage were scared shitless by Madara mountain busting feat with is comparable to the bijuu bomb)

A3

Nagato

edo Itachi


*HIGH KAGE TIER:*

Rinnegan obito

DSM Kabuto

EMS Sasuke

KCM Minato

7th gate Guy

War arc Kakashi

KCM Naruto

Kisame

Kin/Gin

Tobirama

Muu/Gengestu

Ooniki


*MID KAGE TIER:*

Adult Gaara

SM Naruto

SP of pain

SM Jiraya

100th healing Sakura

100th healing Tsunade

A4

Base Minato

Old Hiruzen

Mei

6th gate Guy

Orochimaru

Jiraya

Tsunade


*LOW KAGE TIER:*

Hebi Sasuke

Sasori

Daidara

3rd Kazekage

Rasa

Kakasu

RS Naruto

Shippuden Kakashi

Konan (w/o prep)

Darui

Kitsuchi

Mifume

Chyo

Shippuden Lee


*HIGH JONIN TIER:*

Hidan

Kimimaro

SRA Gaara

Part 1 Kakashi

Yamato

Pre-Oro Kabuto

Zabuza

Suigestu

Jugo

Asuma

War Chojuro


*MID JONIN TIER:*

Shipudden Neji

War Kiba

Shipudden Tamari

Shipudden Kankuro

Sai

Baki

Kurenai


*LOW JONIN TIER:*

Shizune

Hayate

tooth pick guy

Kid Kakashi

CM2 Sasuke

KN1 Naruto

CE Gaara

5th gate Rock Lee

CM2 Sound four


*HIGH CHUNIN TIER:*

BoS Sakura

Those two guys

KN0 Naruto

CM1 Sasuke

CM1 Sound four

Haku


*MID CHUNIN TIER:*

CE Sasuke (post Kakashi training)

CE Rock Lee (w/o gate)

CE Neji

CE Shikamaru

Sound Four (w/o curse mark)

SFT Naruto


*LOW CHUNIN TIER:*

BoS Sasuke (his fireball was stated to be stronger than what a gennin could do)

CE Tamari

CE Shino

CE Kankuro


*HIGH GENIN TIER:*

CE Choji

CE Hinata

CE Kiba

CE Naruto

CH Tenten


*GENIN TIER:*

CE Sakura

CE Ino


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 12, 2018)

goombanthime said:


> Chapter 358 page 9



Literally nothing to do with physical strength



goombanthime said:


> Also as a reminder:
> chapter 7 Sasuke could vaporize a chunk of the ground with a fireball ("boulder smashing level")
> Haku's ice mirror could tank said justu (kid Sasuke katon < Haku ice)
> Haku survived being punched through his mirror (kid Sasuke katon < Haku ice >= Haku durability)
> ...



Ninjutsu =/= Physical strength

Quiet down kiddo, let the real debaters have debates


----------



## Topace (Aug 12, 2018)

Imagine thinking adult gaara is anything below high kage


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 12, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Literally nothing to do with physical strength


If he can tank a building busting explosion, he can take boulder smashing strength


Troyse22 said:


> Ninjutsu =/= Physical strength


Did you not read the part where I showed through feats that Sasuke physical strength and katon are at the same level?



Troyse22 said:


> Quiet down kiddo, let the *people who still argue about the power of character of a mediocre shonen which ended years ago* have debates


----------



## Lawrence777 (Aug 12, 2018)

This cuts off at VOTE Madara/Hashirama level cause I haven't really watched that much beyond that point to form a opinion(they are not the strongest just end of an era). Similar to my earlier opinions:

Founder Level
Madara/Hashirama/BM Naruto*/EMS Sasuke*
*Only after they unlock PS/ other huge, competitive mechs of their own.

Pain Level+
Kabuto w/ Edo Tensei / Obito 6 paths Jinchuriki

Pain level
Pain/Nagato
Danzo

High Kage+
Itachi/MS Obito/Minato/Tobirama
SM Naruto/SM Jiraiya/MS Sasuke/Killer B

High Kage
Tsunade/Orochimaru/Jiraiya/Sasori/Trollkage/Muu/Onoki

Mid Kage
Kakuzu/Konan/Kisame/Deidara/Hebi Sasuke/Gaara/Mei/Ay

Low Kage
Old Hiruzen/Kakashi(P2)/Chiyo/Hidan/Kimimaro

Jonin
Might Guy/Shikaku/Hiashi/Choza/Asuma/Darui/C


*Spoiler*: __ 




Mads/Hashi are self explanatory, just overwhelming raw power wise until Naruto/Sasuke eventually catch them.

Kabuto mass controlling / summoning kage levels at will and Obito's 6 BM jinchuriki paths gives them more brute strength than Pain imo.

Pain/Nagato has huge chakra reserves(fought innumerable konoha shinobi including Jonin levels, then blew up Konoha, then soloed Gamatrio+Pa, then solo'd SM Naruto, beat KN6-KN8 via CT, claimed he could make a bigger one if necessary, left Naruto out of SM by the time Deva was finally dead, and then still had chakra left to rinne tensei thousands of people/shinobi back to life.

Power wise Gamatrio/Pa/SM Naruto were all basically solo'd by just the deva path. A fight starting with deva not powerless first 5 minutes will be nightmare for 90% of shinobi. Put together the other raw power of path abilities(Animal, Preta, Asura..) that can be spammed without fatigue, shared eye sight protecting against blindspots and unexpected upsets, sensing capable of anticipating Amaterasu level techs. His kit kinda speaks for itself.

Danzo has Koto Amatsukami on a speedy cooldown thanks to Hashirama's senju dna. The jutsu  has ridiculous hype and feats. It worked perfectly on Itachi, Itachi seemed sure it would work on EMS Sasuke, Danzo saved it in his life and death battle vs Sasuke because he thought it would oneshot Tobi. Shisui was also going to use it on uchiha clan head Fugaku, another mangekyo-sharingan user to change his mind and prevent the planned coup. It oneshots most people in my view. Not sure if that makes him pain level, but he should be above anyone who can't resist KA.

Itachi is high kage via his 3 best moves and maybe even more so methodology and unpredictable application with which/when he can use them. Timecrunch-Tsukiyomi oneshots 99% of shinobi if landed, beats partner method, and since the duration is so short it removes the weakness of the genjutsu caster being vulnerable, because it's over in an instant. Amaterasu is a very fast moving attack that requires no handseals or prior preparation and is unevadeable for 99% of shinobi. It overpowers and burns through obstacles be it regeneration/tankiness like cereberus, water in Killer Bee's case or even other katons. Kage Bushin, Kwarami substitution and line of sight blockers should theoretically be able to handle this attack but given the hype and author intent surrounding this ability I'd be surprised to see Kishimoto draw anyone not near Itachi's level handling this attack summarily. And then there's Susano'o. 99% shinobi can't accurately hit Itachi to begin with between speed, clones, feints and illusions that have bypassed sharingan/rinnegan/perfect SM sensing, and no-preparation-needed susano'o blocks the majority of the remaining 1% and comes with powerful equipment on its own.

Obito has S/T jutsu admittedly more advanced than Minato/Tobirama's, and can mind control 100% Kyuubi, mind control perfect jinchuriki's with ease. If there are bijuu just out roaming in the wild, he can literally genjutsu them, form a summon contract, and have them as a partner summon for any battle he wants albeit with strain; akatsuki just chose to store them in gedo mazo instead but it doesn't change what the actual power he can bring to bear is. Kamui makes him impossible to kill for 99% of shinobi, and he shouldn't be able to spam it but he has senju dna to keep it going. And even if somehow he is hit he has one izanagi charge to change that reality.

Tobirama was brought up likely from childhood fighting uchiha, avoiding genjutsu, dealing with amaterasu and enton. This is probably why he invented kage bushin jutsu, flying thunder god, and edo tensei.  When Tobirama first meets Sasuke and sees his mangekyo it's nothing new and, if anything, the impression I get is Tobirama thinking he can beat Sasuke regardless mangekyo be damned. Clones, Hiraishin, and years of battle experience in lieu of peace time governance already make his repertoire formidable but he has Edo Tensei and can potentially summon anyone even kage levels to the battlefield to aid him in battle. They won't be as refined as Orochimaru/Kabuto's, and would come back with less strength, but that is still a game changing ability.

Minato is like Tobirama, they both use clones/hiraishin but Minato has more advanced S/T applications. He also lacks Tobirama's battle experience and has fought fewer uchiha. Instead of Edo tensei he has a suite of sealing abilities up to death god technique. Even his lesser seal made Naruto into a jinchuriki iirc. As with any hiraishin user they are going to flat out evade 99% of abilities even ones like Amaterasu Albert Wesker v Chris Jill style.


Orochimaru/Sasori both have Edo Tensei/Human Puppets. Literally, they both can carry kage level+ shinobi in their back pocket and summon them at will during battle. Orochimaru is chronically underrated because Hiruzen used arguably the strongest life-sacrifice sealing technique to permanently maim him. If we went to P2 and he never had his wounds from that fight, he could start any battle with Kuchiyose: Hashirama, kuchiyose: Tobirama; Kuchiyose: 3rd Kazekage.

And I know edo tensei/ human puppets take prep, but it's only one time. It's not like Kirin. Hebi Sasuke needs to generate thunder clouds in _every_ battle in order to fuel Kirin. Once Orochimaru/Sasori do the preparations once, they can summon their kage levels onto the battle field with just a few hand seals, it may as well be part of their base arsenal. Same way living Madara has Kuchiyose:Kyuubi at will after he made the contract.

The aforementioned all goes for Sasori. People wouldn't sleep on him if he had a living kisame puppet or living tsunade puppet complete with all jutsu from when they were alive.

I wanted to go into detail on the rest of high kage+ but don't have time. My basis for high kage+ level is shinobi who can go through the five kage gauntlet MS Sasuke went through and come out alive or last up until Onoki. Not fight the kage all at once, but consecutively one after the other like Sasuke would make a shinobi that level imo.


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 12, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> 1 eyed shinjuu absorbed Juudara
> Adult Naruto/Adult Sasuke


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 12, 2018)

Mar55 said:


>



Yea they can't kill him, so their fates are sealed before the fight even starts.


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 12, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Yea they can't kill him, so their fates are sealed before the fight even starts.


There are means of defeating someone without killing them. My confusion was more based on the fact that they stomp all over him, stat wise.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 12, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> There are means of defeating someone without killing them. My confusion was more based on the fact that they stomp all over him, stat wise.



Limbo clone (a direct copy of Mads) no diff blocked RSM Narutos TSB staff hit.

He was handling speeds Kaguya cucked to (RSM Naruto)

Tanked Night Gai, the hardest hitting attack in the manga by Madaras counter (Taijutsu)

Only people who have any business 1v1ing JJ Madara post Shinju are Kaguya and MAYBE JJ Hagoromo, he mouthrapes everyone else


----------



## Mindovin (Aug 12, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> *Tanked Night Gai*, the hardest hitting attack in the manga by Madaras counter (Taijutsu)



Also, Taijutsu not his counter just he doesn't have resistance like chakra based attack that doesn't use Senjutsu and/or SPC.


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 12, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Limbo clone (a direct copy of Mads) no diff blocked RSM Narutos TSB staff hit.


I'm missing the relevance. 


Troyse22 said:


> He was handling speeds Kaguya cucked to (RSM Naruto)


No, base SPSM had Madara running for the hills. Kaguya blitzed Naruto multiple times. 


Troyse22 said:


> Tanked Night Gai


You don't know what tanked means. 


Troyse22 said:


> the hardest hitting attack


No.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 12, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> I'm missing the relevance.





Mar55 said:


> they stomp all over him, stat wise



That.



Mar55 said:


> SPSM had Madara running for the hills. Kaguya blitzed Naruto multiple times.



Yeah, while Mads got cucked by plot, seeing as how he didn't just ST or Preta his Yoton FRS



Mar55 said:


> You don't know what tanked means



He was battle ready not 5 seconds later



Mar55 said:


> No



Oh okay

Do tell me what Taijutsu hits harder than Night Gai

If you say Narutos punch I'm gonna laugh at you.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 12, 2018)

Mindovin said:


> Also, Taijutsu not his counter just he doesn't have resistance like chakra based attack that doesn't use Senjutsu and/or SPC.



There were two counters listed for Madara prior to Gai battling him

Kakashi Hatake- "Sensei, as I recall your Senjutsu isn't that good....which leaves YOUR Taijutsu (Gai) as our last hope"

Senjutsu and Taijutsu are the only ways to defeat a non plot nerfed Rinnegan wielding JJ


----------



## Sasuke Otsusuki (Aug 12, 2018)

simple list

of all times
1-sasuke(adult)
2- everyone else


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 12, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Night Gai, the hardest hitting attack in the manga




ETSB
Gold reincarnation wheel (Which Naruto straight up overpoweres with one hand iirc, been awhile tho so i could be wrong here, but if he did that would make Narutos strength and anyone who scaled to it also > yagai)
Indras arrow
Rikudo COFRS
Super Biju FRS
Vacuum palms

All shit on Yagai

Also...


Troyse22 said:


> Tanked Night Gai


You dont know what youre talking about

Madara himself straight up fucking says he almost died

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 12, 2018)

Sasuke Otsusuki said:


> simple list
> 
> of all times
> 1-sasuke(adult)
> 2- everyone else



You are not going to have a good time here with that mindset.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 12, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> You are not going to have a good time here with that mindset.


Think its pretty clear hes having a laugh


----------



## ThomasTheCat (Aug 12, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Think its pretty clear hes having a laugh



I guess my senses have been dulled today...


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 13, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> That.


Those two things aren't remotely related.


Troyse22 said:


> while Mads got cucked by plot,


Not an argument.


Troyse22 said:


> He was battle ready not 5 seconds later


Which has nothing to do with whether he tanked NG or not, as he very clearly didn't.


Troyse22 said:


> If you say Narutos punch I'm gonna laugh at you.


Naruto punched through a moon slicing beam, that is >> anything Night Guy did. He also cracked the base of the Shinjū without touching it, showing that his physicals are easily in league with 8G Guy's.

Kaguya's 80GVP should obviously speak for itself.


WorldsStrongest said:


> been awhile tho so i could be wrong here,


No, you're correct.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Epicnessbeyond (Aug 13, 2018)

This is my first ever tier list.

*Rikudou Tier-*

Kaguya
2 Rinnegan Juubi Madara
Hagoromo
Hamura
Six Paths Naruto
Rinnegan Sasuke
1 Rinnegan Madara
8th Gate Guy
DMS Kakashi
Juubito
Ashura
Indra

*Legendary Tier-*

1 Rinnegan Alive SM Madara
Edo Madara
SM Hashirama
VOTE EMS Madara
BSM Naruto
BM Minato
Rinnegan Obito(w/Jinchurikis)
EMS Sasuke(Senjutsu Enhanced)

*Top Tier-*

Edo Itachi
Nagato
DSM Kabuto
Minato(Alive)
MS Obito
EMS Sasuke(Kabuto)
KCM Naruto
Killer Bee
Tobirama
Prime Hanzo
Prime Hiruzen

*High Kage Tier-*

Six Paths of Pain
SM Naruto
MS Sasuke
3rd Raikage 
Mu
Gengetsu
Danzo
Shisui
SM Jiraiya
Orochimaru

*Mid Kage Tier-*

Kisame
Kakashi(War Arc)
7th Gate Guy
Ohnoki
Sick Itachi
Gaara
Tsunade
A 
Mei
Bijuu 2-7

*Low Kage Tier-*

Hebi Sasuke
Pain Arc Kakashi
Kakuzu
Sasori
Deidara
Konan
Old Hiruzen
Darui
Rasa
Hidan


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 13, 2018)

Just gonna give my 2 cents on this one real quick


Epicnessbeyond said:


> Top Tier-
> 
> *Edo Itachi*
> Nagato
> ...



Itachi doesnt belong anywhere near some of these names. Especially not above Nagato or Kabuto both of whom would have decimated Itachi had he not had Kage+ level backup in either instance. Either one is literally capable of 1shotting him. Relative to your tier list, id bump him down to High Kage tier. Everyone you have here would beat him 1on1 without much trouble tbh.
Hanzo and Hiruzen are featless characters, and i personally dont usually mess with taht stuff when it comes to tier lists tho i do on occasion. Thats entirely up to the individual and i have nothing to really say there. That said, Hiruzen is way too high in this list. Literally everyone above Low Kage (and even some you have in Low Kage) can defeat him pretty decisively. In all honesty, there is very little reason Prime Hiruzen would be terribly stronger than Old....Aside from a stamina boost, he doesnt really get anything over his old self. And stamina doesnt mean much unless you shit on your opponent in the stat...A marginal increase isnt doing much for him in terms of general standing. Old Hiruzen and Prime Hiruzen should barely be, if even, a tier apart  Only people whod say otherwise are those who think because the old guy was stated to be the strongest Kage ever by Iruka of all people, who has literally never even met a single other Kage, means something. Doesnt really pass the sniff test when you dig deeper does it?



Epicnessbeyond said:


> *Mid Kage Tier-*
> 
> *Kisame*
> Kakashi(War Arc)
> ...



No Biju is this weak...No one in this tier, aside from A who fought the 8 tails on panel, is even capable of fighting one without getting destroyed. No one. Objectively, theres no reason for any Biju to be a tier lower than Killer Bee. So id bump these guys up a tier at least if im being honest.
Ohnoki also straight up doesnt belong here. He decimates everyone in this tier with more or less mid diff. Id bump him as well. The dude was the MVP of teh Gokage against Edo Madara...According to Madara himself...That says a lot about him. He was also visibly the MVP, as hes the only reason they survived against his meteors, his wood style, and his susanoo clones. They would have all ben 1 shotted by legit every technique i just listed if it wasnt for ohnoki.
Itachi also doesnt really belong here, sick or not, hes much better suited to the next tier.
More of a nitpick than anything else, given how close they are in this tier, but Kisame doesnt really have any right being above Gai...Gai plastered him in 1 shot while holding back and is the mans literal hard counter and has better general firepower than Kisame does. But again, you have them close anyway, which is more than fair i suppose. They are definitely in the same tier.



Epicnessbeyond said:


> *Low Kage Tier-*
> 
> *Hebi Sasuke*
> Pain Arc Kakashi
> ...



MOST of these names belong a tier higher tbh. Hebi Sasuke is at or damn near Sannin level for pushing Itachi as hard as he did, and for beating Deidara who smacked Gaara who you have a tier higher than either name, while Hebi was holding back on Deidara. Kakashi as of the pain Arc is barely weaker than his War arc self. Kakuzu, Sasori, and Deidara are all comparable to Kisame or Might Gai outside of the 8th gate and you have both of those names a tier higher. The rest are more or less fine.



Epicnessbeyond said:


> This is my first ever tier list


Not bad at all for your first time.

Most of the changes id recommend are more logistical than what id call outright "wrong"


----------



## Mindovin (Aug 13, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> There were two counters listed for Madara prior to Gai battling him
> 
> Kakashi Hatake- "Sensei, as I recall your Senjutsu isn't that good....which leaves YOUR Taijutsu (Gai) as our last hope"
> 
> Senjutsu and Taijutsu are the only ways to defeat a non plot nerfed Rinnegan wielding JJ


What I say counter is weaknesses.
Senjutsu enhanced attacks is a weakness for the SPSM and/or Juubi Jins users as JJ Obito casually damaged by WA SM Naruto's Rasengan.
Taijutsu is not a weakness for them if you overpower with taijutsu is good that show characters striking strength above JJs.


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 13, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> There are means of defeating someone without killing them. My confusion was more based on the fact that they stomp all over him, stat wise.



They stomp all over him stat wise?? Juubito who had 2 less bijuus (the strongest of them all, hachibi and kyuubi) could use an attack that should be stronger than naruto/sasuke's strongest attack or at the very least comparable (thats me being generous btw) had DC on that level, and you telling me a madara who is way stronger will lose in a dc based fight? Or the madara that could react and block naruto's RSM assault will lose in a speed fight when he already kept up and had rikudou senjutsu chakra more than even naruto himself. And again a weaker madara could survive 8 gates entire assault, and that was pre becoming a complete immortal, so him being hurt by taijutsu is out of the question because the two kids aren't as strong as guy in taijutsu. And madara didn't even use PS, against the kids which will be fueled by the juubi.


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 13, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> They stomp all over him stat wise??


Yes. They are faster, stronger, more durable and hit way harder. The Last is a testament to that, Boruto just reaffirmed it.


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 13, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> Yes. They are faster, stronger, more durable and hit way harder. The Last is a testament to that, Boruto just reaffirmed it.



What happened in the last that made them faster, more durable and how the hell do they hit harder?? They are stronger than their teen versions yea, but it doesn't mean they are stronger than madara, it also doesn't make them have an answer to his immortality. He can pretty much do anything they can do and on a larger scale.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 13, 2018)

Mar55 said:


> Yes. They are faster, stronger, more durable and hit way harder. The Last is a testament to that, Boruto just reaffirmed it.



I proved they're not stronger u fucking goof

U literally said it has no relevance even though I pointed out the fact that a stationary Limbo clone no diff blocked Naruto who had his Shunshins momentum.
holy fuck


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 13, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> I proved they're not stronger u fucking goof
> 
> U literally said it has no relevance even though I pointed out the fact that a stationary Limbo clone no diff blocked Naruto who had his Shunshins momentum.
> holy fuck


What about the time Naruto's shadow clones fought evenly with Madara's limbo clone? Also blocking a attack doesn't mean it was no diff you fucking imbecile


----------



## Shazam (Aug 13, 2018)

Ordered 

KCM (Post) Naruto 
Hokage Minato 
MS Itachi / SM Jiraiya / MS Sasuke
WA Kakashi / WA Gai 
Hebi Sasuke 


The only list that matters to people 
Based on 1v1 capabilities against each other

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Aug 13, 2018)

Man these threads are always a fun read!

My list is based on overall ability, usefulness on the battlefield, and breadth of skills compared to average Jonin level as well as portrayal (feats + Hype).


Rikudo class: the highest class of fighter, no shinobi can match them in battle alone, but top class shinobi can aid in battle against them at great personal risk.


Kaguya
Adult Naruto
3 Eyed Madara
Fused Momoshiki
Momoshiki, 
Adult Sasuke, 
Kinshiki 
Last Naruto (RSM)
Cloaked 17 y/o RSM Naruto
Rinne 17 y/o Sasuke
Base RSM 17y/o Naruto, 
JJ Madara 
JJ Obito

Legendary class: These people seem impossibly powerful to even Kage, often mistaken for godlike power. Gokage+ level threats.

Double Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi.
8th Gate Gai
DMS Obito
Rinnegan Madara 
Zetsu Orochimaru, Sage Kabuto
SM Hashirama, BSM Naruto
Kurama, Hashirama, Edo Madara,
BM Minato, Rinne Obito
EMS Madara, BM Naruto, Practiced amped EMS Sasuke
Nagato, Rinne Obito (no beasts)
Killer B Transformed 
Adult Gaara, Most Tailed beasts 

High Kage class: Top class Kage. These shinobi have ability that can change the course of a war. The people that even average Kage levels should fear to face even with back up. A tighter bracket than most 

Alive Minato, Pre 571 War arc Naruto, 
6PoP, MS Obito
EMS Sasuke Early, WA Desert Gaara, 
Hiruzen, Danzo
Tobirama 
Edo Itachi, 
Oonoki
Mu, Gengetsu
Pain Arc SM Naruto
SM Jiraiya, Itachi (Hypothetical not sick) , MS Sasuke (hypothetical not blind and tired)
WA Sakura / Tsunade
Konan, Itachi
MS Sasuke 
A4, A3
Boruto Gokage (varies)

Mid Kage class: The average "Kage Level" match ups can still be a problematic thing for this level

7th Gate Gai, WA Kakashi, 
Old Hiruzen
Amped Kisame, Restricted Killer B
Base Jiraiya
6th gate Gai 
Sasori, Deidara
Kisame, Mei
Kakuzu 
4 tails Naruto 
Hebi Sasuke, Darui
armless Orochimaru
Mifune
Kitsuchi
Third Kazekage, Rasa
BoS Gaara

Low Kage class: These are all high Jonin who have Kage level ability but are lacking in experience or versatility:

Immortals arc Naruto
WA Choji
Hidan, Hiashi, Hizashi
3ts Kakashi, 3ts Itachi
Choza, Inoichi, Shikaku 
WA Karin (chains)
Base Gai , KN3 Naruto
P1 Gaara
Chiyo, Kankuro
BoS Sasuke
Yamato
Asuma prt2, 
Temari, 
Suigetsu

Jonin class:
(Hypothetical not sick) Kimimaro
Jugo
Sai
Part 1 Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai, Kimimaro, Zabuza,
Most of Konoha 12
BoS Naruto
7 ninja swordsmen 
Haku?


I haven't read Boruto yet.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Mar55 (Aug 13, 2018)

goombanthime said:


> What about the time Naruto's shadow clones fought evenly with Madara's limbo clone?


It's not worth the effort, his bias for Madara is on par with his bias for Kisame.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 13, 2018)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Hiruzen, Danzo
> Tobirama



Christ...

Tobirama shits on their lives neg diff

This is the Tobirama who was landing serious hits on a Juubi Jin

MULTIPLE TIMES.

He's also a sensor, so foolish izanagi blindside gg fanfic is off the table 

Im making a thread about this right now, hell Tobirama beats them both at the same time no problem.



Hi no Ishi said:


> Amped Kisame, Restricted Killer B
> Base Jiraiya



So an amped, unrestricted Kisame=Restricted Kisame=V2 Bee?

Kisame had to hold back, a point I ironically see you peddle when discussing Gai vs Kisame

1000 feeding sharks and Daikodan easily elevates Kisame to high Kage minimum 

If you think Unamped unrestricted Kisame is inferior or equal to amped restricted Kisame

Unrestricted shits

Adjust your retarded opinion here or you're going on ignore for months

I hope you don't test me, do the right thing.


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 14, 2018)

> Naruto's clones fought evenly with madara's limbo clones they say

*smh* sometimes i wonder if we watch the same show.


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 14, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> > Naruto's clones fought evenly with madara's limbo clones they say
> 
> *smh* sometimes i wonder if we watch the same show.


I wonder the same


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> > Naruto's clones fought evenly with madara's limbo clones they say
> 
> *smh* sometimes i wonder if we watch the same show.



Ikr

Madara legit had them beat seconds later.

Yet people push 25% Naruto=Post Shinju Mads in stats?

Goofs everywhere


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 14, 2018)

goombanthime said:


> I wonder the same



Yea and where were they after?? Or did naruto just release them because they did their jobs ?


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Aug 14, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Christ...
> 
> Tobirama shits on their lives neg diff
> 
> ...


Did you forget about Koto and RDS? I didn't when I placed them. 


Troyse22 said:


> So an amped, unrestricted Kisame=Restricted Kisame=V2 Bee?
> 
> Kisame had to hold back, a point I ironically see you peddle when discussing Gai vs Kisame
> 
> ...


You try doing the right thing and learn to debate with more than just petty threats and insults, ok? 

I mean are you really that afraid of honest debate?

You could have read and realized this wasn't a mere 1v1 list long before you started your rageposting. 


Hi no Ishi said:


> My list is based on overall ability, usefulness on the battlefield, and breadth of skills compared to average Jonin



And look what you are crying about, being at the top of mid Kage instead of high Kage. Like it's some huge gap.
Who is he next to? Gai who beat him in cannon and V2 B who he matched up with well in cannon. 
How the fuck could cannon bother you so much?

Anywho, what would Kisame have actually done differently of he had been going for the kill than what happened in that fight and at what point? 
More amusingly, how would it have been more useful than friggin water dome?

If you want to convince somebody use debate. That's what the Naruto Forumns are for and I, like most, am willing to change my opinion if an actual good argument is provided, but certainly not because of whining, threats or insults.

I mean, have those things ever convinced _you_ of anything?


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 14, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Yea and where were they after?? Or did naruto just release them because they did their jobs ?


If they didn't work wouldn't the limbo have attacks Naruto or Sasuke when they were destroying Madara's raindrops


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Ordered
> 
> KCM (Post) Naruto
> Hokage Minato
> ...


Its wrong anyway even ignoring the controversial shit 

Hokage Minato > Any Naruto bar BM 

So nice try bud

Also...Jman isnt on Sasukes (or Itachis) level 

Sasuke is portrayed far above Jman when he is stated to be SM Narutos equal

The latter of whom would creampie Jman in a fight


----------



## Shazam (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Sasuke is *portrayed* far above Jman when he is stated to be SM Narutos equal



Expect nothing less from you.

Did you read where I said its based on 1v1 capabilities?  Itachi and SM Jiraiya can go either way and Itachi and Sasuke can go either way. Hence why I have them all on the same level

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Its wrong anyway even ignoring the controversial shit



I think the list looks good, the thing about subjective lists such as these is that people are allowed to have differing opinions as long as they hold substance of evidence to back them up, whether you agree or disagree with those reasonings is not a criteria for the lists.


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Sasuke is portrayed far above Jman when he is stated to be SM Narutos equal
> 
> The latter of whom would creampie Jman in a fight



Let's not get crazy, SM Jiraiya with Fukasaku and Shima would give SM Naruto a hell of a fight, if not beat him

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 14, 2018)

goombanthime said:


> If they didn't work wouldn't the limbo have attacks Naruto or Sasuke when they were destroying Madara's raindrops



Limbo surrounded naruto and sasuke when they camped inside sasuke's susano, sasuke even said the shadows are out there. The only reason madar didn't even attack them was because plot nerf.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Expect nothing less from you.


Likewise

You cant sink much lower anyway


Shazam said:


> Did you read where I said its based on 1v1 capabilities


And that doesnt make your opinion any less wrong kiddo

From a 1v1 standpoint, a feats standpoint, and a portrayal standpoint, Sasuke shits on Jman.

Only way you put them "on the same level" is by ignoring about...All of the canon? Yeah sounds right.

MS Genjutsu>3T Genjutsu>Essentially Genjutsu in General>Jman as per his own words
Snakes>Toads
Genjutsu>Toads
Amaterasu/Enton>>>Any Boss summon
Amaterasu/Enton>>>Any Katon
Biju sized Enton/Amaterasu flame feats>Any "dust cloud" Jman can make
Susanoos pressure waves>Dust clouds anyway
Raiton>Doton
Flying summon>Yomi Numa
Sasuke speed feats>Jmans
Sasukes reaction feats>Jmans
Susanoos durability feats>>>Jmans output
Susanoos arrow attack speed>Anything Jman has ever reacted to
Amaterasu speed >>>Anything Jman has ever reacted to
Kirin>>>Anything Jman can fathom in power or speed

And finally

Sasukes portrayal as Narutos equal>Jmans portrayal as Narutos notable inferior as noted by Fukasaku and Pain

Just cuz you have a couple of nuthuggers all riding the same bandwagon as you of "Jman can compete with Sasuke" still doesnt make you any less wrong


Shazam said:


> Itachi and SM Jiraiya can go either way


Itachi can literally oneshot him at a moments notice with 3 different techniques

Itachi isnt any better of a matchup for Jman than Sasuke is


Shazam said:


> Itachi and Sasuke can go either way


I dont contest this

Tho i favor Sasuke due to higher stamina, much higher firepower, and a better base arsenal...And them being basically carbon copies of one another outside of those 3 facts.


Shazam said:


> Hence why I have them all on the same level


They dont belong on the same level

Jman is factual inferior to Sasuke in literally every avenue of debate or source material.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 14, 2018)

Shazam said:


> Itachi and SM Jiraiya can go either way


You mean how itachi could go 1v1 against KCM Naruto, who is stronger than SM Naruto who is stronger than SM Jman, without using Susano

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## goombanthime (Aug 14, 2018)

uchihakil said:


> Limbo surrounded naruto and sasuke when they camped inside sasuke's susano, sasuke even said the shadows are out there. The only reason madar didn't even attack them was because plot nerf.


Naruto's clones could still fought them for a extended period, with isn't bad considering they evaporate after one blow


----------



## Shazam (Aug 14, 2018)

@WorldsStrongest Itachi vs SM Jman can go either. Check any of the 100s of threads concerning it and you'd know. 

Oh but wait, only your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. Isn't that so. 

This is a tier list thread. If you want to debate Itachi and SM Jman do so by making a thread. Don't expect anything less than 50/50 with the responses. Your thoughts are but 1 of many many others who may agree or disagree. 

With that said, Itachi and SM Jman being on the same level is what I'm sticking with. 

And just because Sasuke can or can't beat SM Jman doesn't make him on another level. Match ups dictate a lot. Plenty of people can be found on the same tier but each beating different ones. 

Just stay in your own corner.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Shazam said:


> @WorldsStrongest Itachi vs SM Jman can go either. Check any of the 100s of threads concerning it


This just in, every controversial topic now equates to general standing

Guess Minato=Itachi now huh?

Since they are routinely debated and controversial and have "100s of threads" about it

Oh wait...If Itachi=Minato...That puts him >>> Jman...Wow! Look at that! If we use your logic your own fucking point doesnt make sense!

This has been an informative exchange so far i tell you what 

Also, the 100s of threads of Itachi vs Jman i see consist of people legit making shit up in Jmans favor

Or at least thats all modern day Jman fans do anyway

If you wanna link me to someone who actually knows how to debate so he can prove the modern Jman camps points on their behalf while NOT ignoring canon, thats fine tho



Shazam said:


> Oh but wait, only your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.


When literally no one else actually brings proof and refuses to acknowledge the instances i site, thats often the case yeah 

Kinda like how no Jman fan acknowledges Naruto vs Pain ever happened...Because if they do they have to concede that Jman cant even contest a full power Pain and theyd also have to contest that Jman doesnt compare to his student...

Yet these facts are routinely ignored

More often in this past week than ever if i dare say

And in this thread right now for example


Shazam said:


> This is a tier list thread.


And Jman isnt i the same tier as KCM naruto, Minato, or SM naruto or MS sasuke...Literally nothing indicates he is

So dont hide behind this bullshit


Shazam said:


> If you want to debate Itachi and SM Jman do so by making a thread.


Dude after the fucking week ive had on this forum, id rather put out a campfire with my fucking face than debate with another Jman fan.

They are easily the fucking bowels of this fandom when it comes to debating.


Shazam said:


> Don't expect anything less than 50/50 with the responses


50/50???

In a Jman thread?

On THIS forum?

Jesus i had no idea you were so optimistic

Not that many people listen to reason sadly


Shazam said:


> Your thoughts are but 1 of many many others who may agree or disagree.


Im totally fine with people disagreeing with me...Thats what no Jman fan understands

What i take issue with however...Is when they do so solely by using their own opinions and words and duck the manga...

That something no fan should stand for

If you wanna disagree with me? Bring conflicting evidence. Otherwise you can actually GTFO. A policy ive implemented out of necessity of late...Way too many wankers running rampant these days.

But when a fan of ANY CHARACTER, tries to tell me im wrong without any evidence to the contrary, you bet your ass i laugh in their face.

If you HAVE conflicting evidence? Great. Awesome. Lets compare and contrast liek adults.

The issue is...No one ever bothers with the whole "proof" stage of debating any longer than regurgitating a URL on screen and preemptively making their mind up based solely on a single panel...And then operating under the assumption of "hurr well i have posted a MANGA so they cant disagree durr" And that DOESNT work...

This manga offers A LOT of new and/or conflicting information...You can have a panel showing one thing and i can find 3 that say the exact opposite...Thats where teh whole "debate" comes in. Most fans stop at their take o A SINGLE PANEL and act like thats all they need to prove Jman can fight Pain...


Shazam said:


> With that said, Itachi and SM Jman being on the same level is what I'm sticking with.


On the same level =/= Dead fucking even champ

Now youre goalpost shifting and backtracking


Shazam said:


> just because Sasuke can or can't beat SM Jman doesn't make him on another level


I just said Jman is never beating him and under no circumstances can they ever be called equals

You can put them in the same tier all you want tho 

Just none of this "/" bullshit


Shazam said:


> Match ups dictate a lot


Sasuke is a nightmare match for Jman dude...Literally just laid all of that out for you in bullet form in the very post you are replying to...

If youre hiding behind a matchup reasoning as to why Jman can magically swap hands with Sasuke...Stop it, cuz youre wrong there as well


Shazam said:


> Plenty of people can be found on the same tier


See?

This is what im talking about when i say dishonesty and goalpost shiting...

You never had them in the same tier...You had them as EQUALS

There is a MASSIVE difference

Examples...

Minato>Itachi VERY definitively, but they fall in the same tier

Pain> SM Naruto VERY definitively, same tier

MS Sasuke > Danzo, but same tier

Etc

If you think they are in the same tier... Dont post "X/Y are even"

Cuz thats not the same thing


Shazam said:


> Just stay in your own corner.


Are you attempting to discourage me interacting with and discussing interpretations with other people on a DEBATE forum?

Wow...


----------



## uchihakil (Aug 14, 2018)

goombanthime said:


> Naruto's clones could still fought them for a extended period, with isn't bad considering they evaporate after one blow



His clones are more durable than they used to be, even his base clones didn't poof from a single hit against sasuke at vote 2. Eitherway, it still a fact limbo beat naruto's


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> I think the list looks good


If you dont mind factually incorrect statements in your lists...Then sure i guess

As i said, even ignoring the controversial matchups listed in that list...KCM Naruto has no business above Minato.


JuicyG said:


> the thing about subjective lists such as these is that people are allowed to have differing opinions as long as they hold substance of evidence to back them up


"Subjective lists" is just nomenclature used to discourage criticism.

Theres also no evidence to put Jman equal to Sasuke or Naruto superior to Minato.

I just listed several reasons why Sasuke shits on Jman in every way you slice that pie...Feats, matchups, portrayal...Jman loses ACROSS the board.


JuicyG said:


> whether you agree or disagree with those reasonings is not a criteria for the lists.


I never said they needed my seal of approval.

Itd be nice if you didnt ignore about 100 Chapters of the manga (and in doing so, basically all of Sasukes MS feats) to make a list tho.


----------



## King1 (Aug 14, 2018)

Some of these tier lists are cringe worthy


----------



## Alita (Aug 14, 2018)

ThomasTheCat said:


> ...



What about that do you have a problem with?



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Bruh...
> 
> >Base Momoshiki above Rinne Sauce and RSM Naruto



He soloed both of them after absorbing basic elemental jutsu from boruto's kote device. Keep in mind these hypothetical matchup have characters fighting others with no knowledge on their abilities. Meaning Naruto will almost certainly use a chakra based jutsu against momo which once he absorbs is going to be game over for Naruto. 



> > DMS Kakashi over hagoromo, 3 eyed Juudara, and Rikudo Naruto/Sasuke



I only have him above base hagomoro since he has no answer to kamui BFR/head removal as far as we know. Same thing for juudara and Naruto. Sasuke can be argued over but I think Kakashi is faster than sauce considering he can react to and intercept kaguya with kamui even after the speed boost she got. And sauce was getting neg diffed pretty easily by base kaguya.



> > Minato in mid kage tier below war arc sakura, Kisame SM Naruto and MS Sasuke



I was honestly being kind of generous to minato. Realistically speaking I don't see how he beat any byakugou user since he has no way to put them down. The same can be said for orochimaru, transformed kakuzu, etc. 



> > Muu on par with SM Kabuto



If muu erases his presence right from getgo and does a jinton immediately he should be able to win imo. 



> > Adult Gaara, Adult Kurotsuchi, Adult Choujiro, Adult Darui in god tier ABOVE Juudara, Juubito, 8 gated guy and the juubi


Gaara and choujiro working as a team could put up a fight against urashiki who is stronger than the characters you listed. Choujiro and kurotsuchi were able to defeat and restrain kinshiki who should be on the same level as urashiki considering his performance against rinnegan sauce. They all also survived direct attacks from transformed momo who can physically match adult Naruto who over powered toneri's golden sword with a punch in his base form. 



Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Rinnegan Obito below Bijuu 1-8 and Killer Bee?



If bee goes bijuu mode I'm not really sure what obito can do to him. He's too big in the mode to BFR and we know for a cannon fact that CT won't work either. One could argue it to be a stalemate tho I suppose since bee would have a hard time harming him as well. Although keep in mind I restricted edos here so obito doesn't have the rinnegan jin paths here.



Topace said:


> I stan gaara down but uhhh Him above the low god tier? He isn’t t even god tier himself . If anything he should sit at the top of High Kage or Low top tier.
> 
> Also why don’t people use the strongest form? These cluttered ass tier list at least make them look presentable if you are going to be naming 100 people.



His sand can catch momo who would blitz the hell out of anyone in the low god tier range or below. His sand shield blocked a elemental barrage that took out sauce's susano. Gaara even survived a direct hit momo who can physically content with two god tiers at the same time without his sand protecting him.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> If you dont mind factually incorrect statements in your lists...Then sure i guess
> 
> As i said, even ignoring the controversial matchups listed in that list...KCM Naruto has no business above Minato.
> 
> ...



Show me an objective list and I'll show you why you're wrong. There is no perfect tier list. Just those you agree with more than others.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 14, 2018)

​


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Tier 3*
> 
> Pain
> EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
> ...



Why is KCM Naruto 2 spots below EMS Kabuto fight Sasuke? Reasoning? Proof? Evidence?
​


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Tier 4*
> 
> AAA
> AAAA
> ...



What makes you place Hebi Sasuke over Tsunade? What is your objective reasoning? Why is Deidara above WA Gaara under neutral conditions such as not having to protect the village and having far better feats come war arc?

​


WorldsStrongest said:


> *Tier 5*
> 
> BoS Sasuke
> Hiruzen
> ...



Why is Darui above Rasa? Does he beat him 1v1 in your opinion? Can you provide a solid argument for that?


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> Show me an objective list and I'll show you why you're wrong. There is no perfect tier list. Just those you agree with more than others.


What an amazing non answer that doesnt actually address the flaws in your pals tier list nor any of my arguments against it or problems with it

Im speechless...Really i am.



JuicyG said:


> There is no perfect tier list


Never said there was

in point of fact, that post you just gave a salty disagree with in this thread? The one with my tier list in it?

I state RIGHT AT THE TOP its IMPOSSIBLE to make a tier list to account for every individual fucking matchup.

Here ill get it for you...Lord knows peopel cant post proof of their own around here lately anyway...



WorldsStrongest said:


> *List doesnt necessarily account for every individual matchup tho. Thats impossible* the further down you get toward Kage tiers (Tiers 3-5) and lower where that kind of shit is really important, so just because X is above Y in Tier 4, doesnt necessarily mean X cant beat Y provided the gap isnt huge. For instance...No one is climbing a full damn tier and beating someone within it because "matchup". Tried my best to include matchups as much as possible when placing anyone above someone else. Higher tiers are much easier to rank on power alone as sheer force makes matchups moot.





JuicyG said:


> Just those you agree with more than others.


Theres also lists THE MANGA agrees with more than others.

Where people get off putting X above Y when its outright fucking stated Y > X is beyond me

My opinion be damned...There are things called "facts" that debunk a great deal of placements just fine

Your own opinions, or your pals, notwithstanding


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> What an amazing non answer that doesnt actually address the flaws in your pals tier list nor any of my arguments against it or problems with it
> 
> Im speechless...Really i am.
> 
> ...



If you're insisting that your opinions better align with the manga than everyone else, just come out and say it. Because that is certainly how you present yourself. You post as if you're ranting every time you quote something you disagree with.

Now if you would, respond to my critique of your own tier list. Im interested in hearing these factual, objective stances that align completely with the manga


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Where people get off putting X above Y when its outright fucking stated Y > X is beyond me



Jfc this irony


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

And here come the fucking struggle arguments and nitpicks 


JuicyG said:


> Why is KCM Naruto 2 spots below EMS Kabuto fight Sasuke? Reasoning? Proof? Evidence?


Because theres nothing eh can objectively do to the kid

Susanoo walls literally any offence he could attempt and makes KCMs vaunted speed moot in a fight.

It has feats (in weaker users hands ALSO in less than its full form) of blocking Kirin which shits on anything in Narutos arsenal bar FRS or higher. And we have Narutos COR feats failing to even crack ribcage levels of Susanoo in the hands of an EMS user...

And FRS is hard countered by Amaterasu or Enton...Which Sasuke has stupid feats with using EMS.

An EMS V4 Susanoo WITH the addition of a shield is tanking whatever naruto throws at it neg diff, and anything with the juice to  get through it in Narutos arsenal has a "Fuuton" prefix and thus gets shit on by Enton.

Not a hard concept.

Add to this, Naruto cant outlast Sasuek with EMS, so Susanoo will constantly be a factor.

Add to this, Enton and Amaterasu can SPREAD MASSIVELY further limiting Narutos speed and maneuverability.

Add to this, even IF naruto tagged Sasukes Susanoo with FRS and busted it, that doesnt mean anything for Sasuke as its been demonstrated several times that Susanoo can be fucking ATOMIZED and the user is still combat ready 

Naruto is also vulnerable to genjutsu still as he hasnt attained Kuramas coop 

So yeah...I put EMS Sasuek a few spots above KCM in general terms.


JuicyG said:


> What makes you place Hebi Sasuke over Tsunade? What is your objective reasoning?


He has feats of countering faster fighters than her (V1 Killer Bee with 3T in a weakened state)

And has more speed than her, better ranged jutsu and game in that he actually POSSESSES some, more destructive power than her (Kirin) Genjutsu to counter regen, and the option of beheading to circumvent that as well.

Better summons, and the ability to bitch hers through illusion.

So yeah, also put him above Tsunade.


JuicyG said:


> Why is Deidara above WA Gaara under neutral conditions such as not having to protect the village and having far better feats come war arc?


Cuz Deidara beat Gaara in his element whilst holding back KI...On panel

He also has hilariously better feats in terms of DC and hax.

And even with WA gaaras feats, he hasnt demonstrated why hed magically be capable of countering something like C3 without being in a fucking desert now has he bud?

He also hasnt demonstrated why hed magically be immune to how Deidara beat him anyway. Deidara can easily plant explosives in Gaaras sand whether he has civilians to target or not...Gaara (along with most people) kinda needs to block FREQUENTLY in a fight...

Or are you only taking into account the absence of the negative factors Gaara had in that fight and ignoring the overwhelming positives?


JuicyG said:


> Why is Darui above Rasa? Does he beat him 1v1 in your opinion? Can you provide a solid argument for that?


Darui defeated 2 V2 Jins with Kuramas power mostly unscathed.

Feat wise? Rasa has done fucking nothing


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> If you're insisting that your opinions better align with the manga than everyone else, just come out and say it. Because that is certainly how you present yourself



Yeah over the past couple of weeks WS has been really nasty and condescending.

I assume he's just going through RL shit and is venting, but goddamn, even on my worst days I'm not as bad as WS has been this past month


If you need a friend @WorldsStrongest shoot me a PM. We might be bitter debaters but we're still that, debaters and I don't want you feeling down.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

JuicyG said:


> If you're insisting that your opinions better align with the manga than everyone else


Where did i say that?

Just because im capable of calling a fucking spade a spade or a wrong opinion a wrong opinion doesnt mean my lists are flawless

Jesus...What kind of jump in logic is that?

If someone points out a flaw in my list or logic anywhere, and actually PROVES to me why its a flaw, ill happily change it.

I just expect others to hold to the same standard...And they often dont. Case in point....You...Who are legit arguing against the manga when you take issue with the criticism i presented.

And no, not saying my EVERY CRITICISM aligns perfectly with the manga...Im just saying in this instance...No argument can be made to oppose the proof i laid out 

Or else you or the other guy would have posted it to shut my ass up long before now.

And bud...Just saying? But i cant tell you how many times ive had objective proof i post get straight up ignored and then left unrefuted by my opponents under the guise of "my interpretation is better than yours"

So its just funny to me in a roundabout way that im being accused of the same thing when ive been targeted by that bullshit ROUTINELY.


JuicyG said:


> that is certainly how you present yourself


How?

because i looked at someone else's list with a flaw in it that actively went against all forms of canon and called them out on it?

A list you just so happened to agree with?

Kay 


JuicyG said:


> You post as if you're ranting every time you quote something you disagree with


A few sentences of my own in response to a few sentences or even a paragraph from the other guy constitutes a rant to you?


JuicyG said:


> Now if you would, respond to my critique of your own tier list


Already did


JuicyG said:


> Im interested in hearing these factual, objective stances that align completely with the manga


Well considering im legit in the middle of an argument with you where you took issue with teh fact i pointed out anothers list disagreed with Canon evidence...Im sure this will go swimmingly.

Cuz youve kinda already proven to me you dont like concepts like "proof" or "reason"

Or at least thats certainly "how you present yourself"


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> A few sentences of my own in response to a few sentences or even a paragraph from the other guy constitutes a rant to you?


Probably referring to your constant complaining about J man fans whenever you get the chance, even on subjects unrelated to J man in itself

You'd think a Jman fan had sex with your girl or something lol


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Probably referring to your constant complaining about J man fans whenever you get the chance, even on subjects unrelated to J man in itself
> 
> You'd think a Jman fan had sex with your girl or something lol



Did you?


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Probably referring to your constant complaining about J man fans whenever you get the chance


Probably due to the fact they run rampant

And its not like you guys dont do more than your fair share of bitching pal 

Lets not play the shit flinging game cuz youll end up way dirtier than you think


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> even on subjects unrelated to J man in itself


> This is a tier list thread which encmpasses teh entire franchise, Jman is included in that demographic
> I replied to a guy who was talking about Jman specifically
> Apparently unrelated

top kek



The Death & The Strawberry said:


> You'd think a Jman fan had sex with your girl


Jman fans dont get laid

Theyve gotta emulate their fave as much as possible after all

I applied for a Jman fanwank club membership a few years back so i know the criteria


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 14, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Did you?


I mean idk


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Did you?





WorldsStrongest said:


> Jman fans dont get laid
> 
> Theyve gotta emulate their fave as much as possible after all
> 
> I applied for a Jman fanwank club membership a few years back so i know the criteria


No he didnt


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> Yeah over the past couple of weeks WS has been really nasty and condescending.


That tends to happen when people routinely deny reason and act like im the problem


Troyse22 said:


> even on my worst days I'm not as bad as WS has been this past month


Lets not get carried away


Troyse22 said:


> If you need a friend @WorldsStrongest shoot me a PM


Appreciate it i guess


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> No he didnt


Is that what she told you?


----------



## Troyse22 (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> That tends to happen when people routinely deny reason and act like im the problem



You think I don't feel the same when people do the same to me?

Honestly lately I've been putting my "shields up". I present my argument, address debaters, if they bring up the same points or can't refute it I just ignore it

No point anymore especially against long time debaters whom you've had the same debates with before. All youre doing is pissing yourself off.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Is that what she told you?


She didnt have to

The fact no Jman fan can close if they tried is a fact


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> She didnt have


Once you go black you don't go back homie



WorldsStrongest said:


> Ah, so youre going off topic ina n effort to derail the thread
> 
> Class


I was attributing to something that he said, I need a reference to do that, no? 





WorldsStrongest said:


> Number 1 line that predates a diss
> 
> Miss me with that shit


What?


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Once you go black you don't go back homie


Every white kid on the internet is black

I mean ill take your word for it as i have no wish to offend anybody in that manner, but you know im right...Catfishing is real in more ways than one after all.


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> I was attributing to something that he said, I need a reference to do that, no?


How exactly does his accusing my few sentences as being a "rant" have anything to do with me debating Jman fans rather frequently?


The Death & The Strawberry said:


> What?


Kay


----------



## Serene Grace (Aug 14, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Every white kid on the internet is black
> 
> I mean ill take your word for it as i have no wish to offend anybody in that manner, but you know im right...Catfishing is real in more ways than one after all.
> 
> ...


Ok im srry for even bringing this up then


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Aug 14, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> You think I don't feel the same when people do the same to me?


Im referencing straight up canon established chains tho

Thats the difference

In reference to your point of view...Itd be like if someone told you V1 Killer Bee can beat Kisame

Despite the fact they fought on panel and Kisame won so its pretty clearly wrong

Usually when it comes to you, youre debating "what if" battles...Such as Kisame vs Itachi which havent canonically happen so there is a lot more room for interpretation.

But when about a dozen Jman fans all look me in the eye and tell me Jman would beat SM naruto or Pain or MS Sasuke or KN6 Naruto...Its a tad different than someone saying their opinion on battles that never happened.

Cuz its stated and shown in canon all the latter names are superior to Jman


Troyse22 said:


> No point anymore especially against long time debaters whom you've had the same debates with before. All youre doing is pissing yourself off.


I see the logic there

Anywho, this is mad off topic


----------



## Soldierofficial (Oct 15, 2018)

*Low Jonin Level*

Kakashi Hatake (Gaiden) (w/o Sharingan)/Obito Uchiha (Gaiden) (w Sharingan)
Mahiru
Taiseki
Temari (SRA)/Kankuro (SRA)
Neji Hyūga (SRA)/Rock Lee (CE)
Hinata Hyūga (BoS)
Jirobo
Ten Ten (BoS)
Ino Yamanaka (War Arc)
Chōji Akimichi (BoS)
Kiba Inuzuka (BoS)
Shino Aburame (BoS)

*Mid Jonin Level-*

Shikamaru Nara (BoS)
Sakura Haruno (BoS)
Kakko
Kakashi Hatake (Gaiden) (w Sharingan)
Hayate Gekkō
Aoba Yamashiro
Hinata Hyūga (War Arc)
Kidomaru
Tayuya
Sakon&Ukon
Atsui
Omoi
Ten Ten (War Arc)
Ino Yamanaka (Adult)
Rock Lee (SRA)
Chōji Akimichi (SRA)
Kiba Inuzuka (War Arc)
Shino Aburame (War Arc)
*
Mid Jonin Level+*

Naruto Uzumaki (BoS) (w/o Kurama)
Sai (BoS)
Ibiki Morino
Anko Mitarashi
Shikamaru Nara (War Arc)
Samui
Genma Shiranui/Raidō Namiashi
Cee
Baki
Kankuro (BoS)/Temari (BoS)
Neji Hyūga (BoS)/Rock Lee (BoS)
Ten Ten (Adult)
Naruto Uzumaki (SRA)
Sasuke Uchiha (SRA)
Sai (War Arc)
Kiba Inuzuka (Adult)
Shibi Aburame
Shino Aburame (Adult)
Sage Mode Mitsuki
Shinki
Moegi Kazamatsuri (Adult)/Udon Ise (Adult)
Ao 
Akatsuchi
Inoichi Yamanaka
Shizune
Kurenai Yuhi
*
High Jonin Level*

7 Swordsmen Of The Mist
Pakura/Gari
Haku
Kankuro (War Arc)/Temari (War Arc)
Dodai
Fu Yamanaka/Torune Aburame
Karin Uzumaki
Juugo
Suigetsu Hozuki
Chojuro (War Arc)
Kurotsuchi (War Arc)
Shikaku Nara
Chōza Akimichi
Shikamaru Nara (Adult)
Hiashi Hyūga/Hanabi Hyūga (Adult)
Hinata Hyūga (The Last)
Neji Hyūga (War Arc)
Yamato
Gaara (SRA)
Kimimaro Kaguya (Sick)
Asuma Sarutobi
Konohamaru (Adult)
Zabuza Momochi
Kakashi Hatake (Part 1)/Might Guy (base)/Kabuto Yakushi (Part 1)
*
Low Kage Level*

B&W Zetsu
Hidan
One-Tailed Kyūbi Naruto Uzumaki
Darui (War Arc)
Kitsuchi
Rock Lee (War Arc)
Chōji Akimichi (War Arc)
Kakashi Hatake (BoS) (w/o MS)
Naruto Uzumaki (Immortal Arc)
Tsunade Senju (Part 1)
Hanzo (War Arc)
Mifune
Chiyo (Old)
Konan
Killer Bee (base)
Rock Lee (The Last)
BoS Gaara
Kimimaro Kaguya (Healthy)
Rasa
Chojuro (Adult)
Kurotsuchi (Adult)
Hokage Kakashi

*Mid Kage Level-*

Mei Terumi
Three-Tailed Kyūbi Naruto Uzumaki
Darui (Adult)
Kakuzu
Killer Bee (Version One Jinchūriki form)
Jiraiya (base)
Kakashi Hatake (War Arc) (w/o MS)/Might Guy (Six Gates)
Jinchūriki (2-7 tails, Version Two)
Sasuke Uchiha (BoS)
Deidara/Ōnoki (pre-Stone Will)
Sasuke Uchiha (Hebi)
Sasori
Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke Uchiha (Taka)
Gaara (War Arc)
Kisame Hoshihaki
Tsunade Senju (Part 2)
Sakura Haruno (War Arc)

*Mid Kage Level+*

Orochimaru (base)
Four-Tailed Kyūbi Naruto Uzumaki
Fourth Raikage Ay
Killer Bee (Version Two Jinchūriki form)
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Old)
Kinkaku/Ginkaku (Six-Tailed Kyūbi Mode)
Ōnoki (post-Stone Will)
Mū/Gengetsu Hozuki
Mangekyō Sharingan Kakashi Hatake (War Arc)/Might Guy (Seven Gates)
Rock Lee (Adult)
Sakura(Adult)
White Snake Orochimaru/Sage Mode Jiraiya
Itachi Uchiha (Sick)/Danzo Shimura (w/o Koto)
Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki (Pain Arc)/Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke Uchiha (KSA)
Gaara (Adult)

*High Kage Level*

Edo Tensei Orochimaru (Part 1)
Six-Tailed Kyūbi Naruto Uzumaki
Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki (War Arc)
3rd Raikage A/Bijū (1-8 tails)
Jinchūriki (2-7 tails, Bijū Mode)
Tobirama Senju/Edo Itachi Uchiha
Hiruzen Sarutobi (Prime)
Hanzō (Prime)
Mangekyō Sharingan Obito Uchiha
Minato Namikaze/Six Paths Of Pain
Kyūbi Chakra Mode Naruto Uzumaki/Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke Uchiha (Kabuto fight)
Killer Bee (Bijū Mode)
Sage Mode Kabuto Yakushi

*Low Top Level*

Gedō Mazō
Kyūbi Chakra Mode Minato Namikaze
Edo Nagato Uzumaki
Rinnegan Obito Uchiha
Senjutsu Enhanced Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke Uchiha
Bijū Mode Naruto Uzumaki/Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke Uchiha (post-Jubito)

*Mid Top Level*

Kurama (Prime)
Rinnegan Obito Uchiha (+ Jinchūriki)
Bijū Mode Minato Namikaze
Hashirama Senju (Base)/Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Madara Uchiha
Bijū Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki

*High Top Level*

Edo Madara Uchiha
Sage Mode Hashirama Senju/Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan Madara Uchiha (+ Kurama)

*Low God Level-*

Edo Tensei Orochimaru (War Arc)
Edo Tensei Sage Mode Kabuto Yakushi
One-eyed Rinnegan Sage Mode Madara
Uchiha
Jūbi
Jūbi Obito Uchiha

*Low God Level+*

Rikudō Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki (War Arc) (w/o Kurama)
Double Mangekyō Sharingan Kakashi Hatake/Might Guy (Eight Gates)
One-eyed Rinnegan Jūbi Madara Uchiha

*Mid God Level-*

Rikudō Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki (War Arc)/Rinnegan Sasuke Uchiha (War Arc)
One-eyed Rinnegan Jūbi Madara Uchiha (post-Shinju Absorption)
Tenseigan Chakra Mode Toneri Ōtsutsuki
Bijū Sage Mode Naruto (The Last)
Urashiki Ōtsutsuki

*Mid God Level+*

Rikudō Sage Mode Naruto Uzumaki (Valley of the End)/Rinnegan Sasuke Uchiha (Valley of the End)
Ashura Ōtsutsuki/Indra Ōtsutsuki
Kinshiki Ōtsutsuki
Two-eyed Rinnegan Jūbi Madara Uchiha
Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki

*High God Level-*

Naruto Uzumaki (Adult)/Sasuke Uchiha (Adult)
Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki/Hamura Ōtsutsuki
Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki (post-Kinshiki Absorption)
Three-eyed Rinnegan Jūbi Madara Uchiha

*High God Level+*

Jūbi Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki/Tenseigan Chakra Mode Hamura Ōtsutsuki
Kaguya Ōtsutsuki


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 15, 2018)

1-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Kaguya




2-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Hagoromo/Hamura/Rinne Sharingan Madara
Ten Tails Jinchuriki Madara(One Rinnegan)
Ten Tails Jinchuriki Obito




3-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto/Asura
Rinnegan Sasuke with Biju/Indra
Rinnegan Madara
8th Gate Gai
Ten Tails Jinchuriki Obito(Uncontrolled)




4-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Hashirama
Madara with Kurama
Transformed Momoshiki
Toneri




5-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Double Sharingan Kakashi
Rinnegan Sasuke
One Rinnegan Madara
Edo Tensei Hashirama
Edo Tensei Madara
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Madara




6-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Biju Mode Naruto
Biju Mode Minato
Rinnegan Obito
Kinshiki
Nagato




7-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Pain
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke
Momoshiki
Killer B
Guruguru
Hiruzen
Prime Hanzo
A(3rd Raikage)
Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto




8-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Sage Mode Kabuto
Sage Mode Naruto/Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke/Itachi
Minato
Kinkaku/Ginkaku
Tobirama
Urashiki
Mangekyo Sharingan Obito
Konan
Mu/Gengetsu
Onoki
Strength of a Hundred Seal Sakura
Orochimaru/Jiraiya/Tsunade
A(4th Raikage)
Danzo




9-

*Spoiler*: __ 




Hebi Sasuke
Gai
Kisame
Sasori
Gaara
Rasa
Mei
Kakuzu
Kakashi
Deidara


----------



## Kisame (Oct 15, 2018)

Order of characters in a certain tier does not denote superiority/inferiority. Characters in the same tier are not necessarily equal 1v1 but they are of a similar threat level.
*
Tier 11*
Zabuza
Kitsuchi
Hidan
Part I Kakashi
Part I Kabuto
Gamabunta
Manda
Aoda

*Tier 10*
Mifune
Rasa
Chiyo
Konan
BoS Gaara
Wind Arc Naruto
Fukasaku
Shima
SM Gamakichi

*Tier 9*
Third Kazekage
KN3 Naruto
Deidara
Kakuzu
Mei
Kisame
Gai
Kakashi

*Tier 8*
KN4 Naruto
Orochimaru (no arms)
War Arc Sakura
Tsunade
Old Hiruzen
Hebi Sasuke
Gaara (War arc)
4th Raikage
3rd Raikage
Sasori
Ōnoki (pre-Will)

*Tier 7*
KN6 Naruto
Ōnoki (Will of Stone)
Prime Hanzō
Orochimaru
Mū
Gengetsu
Killer Bee
Jiraiya
Sennin Naruto
MS Sasuke
Danzō

*Tier 6*
Seven Swordsmen of the Mist
Tobirama
Itachi
Prime Hiruzen
MS Obito
Pain Rikudo
KCM Naruto
EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
Minato
SM Kabuto

*Tier 5*
Nagato
Rinnegan Obito (no paths)
The Legendary Sannin
KCM Minato

*Tier 4*
Gokage
EMS Sasuke (Jūbito fight)
Bijū Mode Naruto
Bijū Mode Minato

*Tier 3*
Post-Jūbito EMS Sasuke
BSM Naruto

*Tier 2*
EMS Madara
Rinnegan Obito (with Jinchūriki)
Edo Madara
Hashirama

*Tier 1*
Jūbito
Rikūdo Sasuke
Rikūdo Naruto

*Tier 0*
Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara
Kaguya

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Soldierofficial (Oct 15, 2018)

Perfect Susano said:


> Transformed Momoshiki
> Toneri







> Rinnegan Obito
> Kinshiki







> Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke
> Momoshiki







> Tobirama
> Urashiki


----------



## Perfect Susano (Oct 15, 2018)

Soldierofficial said:


> *Spoiler*: __


Very generous placements considering that Urashiki needed to escape against Chojuro and Gaara & Momoshiki couldn't put down Gaara and Darui. Kinshiki could possibly be above Obito though.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2018)

Perfect Susano said:


> 2-
> *Spoiler*:
> Hagoromo/Hamura/Rinne Sharingan Madara
> Ten Tails Jinchuriki Madara(One Rinnegan)
> Ten Tails Jinchuriki Obito


You have JJ Obito a whole tier fucking higher than the Rikudo enhanced versions of kids who BEAT him while NOT Rikudo enhanced  AND went on to fight not one, but TWO fucking STRONGER JJs?

Wow...

Not off to a great start here


Perfect Susano said:


> 3-
> *Spoiler*:
> Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto/Asura
> Rinnegan Sasuke with Biju/Indra
> ...


Why would Asura be equal to his reincarnation who is literally Asura + Kyuubi : facepalm

Why is Indra equal to his reincarnation who is literally Indra + Rinnegan + ALL BIJU 

Why is Rinnegan non JJ Madara in the same tier as Naruto and Sasuke  Why is he ABOVE 8th Gate Gai when he could blitz Madara no diff? 


Perfect Susano said:


> 4-
> *Spoiler*:
> Hashirama
> Madara with Kurama
> ...


Please pass the weed you had when making this list

Hashirama above fucking Fused Momoshiki?

The guy who swapped hands with ADULT Naruto BACKED BY ADULT Sasuke?

Oof

The largest of "oofs"

EMS Madara above Toneri who fought Post Rikudo 100% BSM Naruto?

Add another "oof" of comparable size to the one above


Perfect Susano said:


> 5-
> *Spoiler*:
> Double Sharingan Kakashi
> Rinnegan Sasuke
> ...


>DMS Kakashi above Rinnegan Sasuke
> Any name below Sasukes being in the same fucking Tier as him

Wow


Perfect Susano said:


> 6-
> *Spoiler*:
> Biju Mode Naruto
> Biju Mode Minato
> ...


I almost coughed up my fucking spleen

Kinshiki BELOW PRE JJ OBITO?

The guy who swapped hands with Rinnegan Adult Sasuke BELOW BM Naruto?

OOF


Perfect Susano said:


> 7-
> *Spoiler*:
> Pain
> Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke
> ...


> Pain above EMS Sasuke when the latter fought a fucking JJ
> EMS Sasuke or Pain above ANY Otsutsuki
> ANY of these names being in teh same TIER as an Otsutsuki 

Top kek


Perfect Susano said:


> 8-
> *Spoiler*:
> Sage Mode Kabuto
> Sage Mode Naruto/Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke/Itachi
> ...


This is the most accurate tier youve posted so far...And thats sad...


Perfect Susano said:


> 9-
> *Spoiler*:
> Hebi Sasuke
> Gai
> ...


Sure

Why not

Nothing anywhere near as bad as anything you put above this


----------



## goombanthime (Oct 15, 2018)

Shark said:


> *Tier 5*
> Nagato
> Rinnegan Obito (no paths)
> *The Legendary Sannin*
> KCM Minato


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2018)

Shark said:


> *Tier 5*
> Nagato
> Rinnegan Obito (no paths)
> *The Legendary Sannin*
> KCM Minato


Is...Umm...Is Bold referencing a COLLECTIVE Sannin?

PLEASE tell me bold references a collective Sannin


----------



## Kisame (Oct 15, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Is...Umm...Is Bold referencing a COLLECTIVE Sannin?
> 
> PLEASE tell me bold references a collective Sannin


Yes it does

However it's likely that I rate Nagato much lower than you do rather than me overrating the collective Sannin.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2018)

Shark said:


> Yes it does
> 
> However it's likely that I rate Nagato much lower than you do rather than me overrating the collective Sannin.


Oh no

My issue was that you might have had each individual Sannin > KCM Minato...The rest was fine.


----------



## Kisame (Oct 15, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Oh no
> 
> My issue was that you might have had each individual Sannin > KCM Minato...The rest was fine.


Yeah no

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Oct 15, 2018)

Shark said:


> Yeah no


Good


----------



## Kisame (Oct 15, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Good


I'd even favor Nagato and Obito over the Sannin it's just that there is a big gap between this tier and the one below and the Sannin fit more on this tier.


----------

