# Law vs Ace



## Hachibi (Sep 19, 2014)

Location: Thriller Bark
Distance: 70 meters
Knowledge: Reputation
Mindset: IC
Restriction: None

Discuss


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## Rob (Sep 19, 2014)

Ace punches him in the face.


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## zoro (Sep 19, 2014)

I think Ace wins, but it won't be a walk in the park


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 19, 2014)

We already had a thread about it not too long ago.


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## Slenderman (Sep 19, 2014)

Ace wins extreme diff.

Ace just has to watch out for mes and out of 10 fights he may lose 3 or 4.


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## Canute87 (Sep 19, 2014)

Definitely Trafalgar law.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 19, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Definitely Trafalgar law.


Yeah, unless Oda shows otherwise, I think he and Luffy have surpassed Ace.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

I feel like it could be either way, extreme.


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## Canute87 (Sep 19, 2014)

Slenderman said:


> Ace wins extreme diff.
> 
> Ace just has to watch out for *mes* and out of 10 fights he may lose 3 or 4.



Also countershock, radio knife and injection.  He also needs to watch out for tact,  any warping and especially shambles.

Yeah as long as those don't hit him he's fine.


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## Samehadaman (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> I feel like it could be either way, extreme.




I'm going with this, extreme diff either way.


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## Ruse (Sep 19, 2014)

Law high/extreme diff


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## Magician (Sep 19, 2014)

Entei, gg.


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 19, 2014)

Ace wins law is not good enough to be the second commander for the WB pirates at his current strength level, and by virtue of Ace's raw power being way higher than Laws.


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## Shiny (Sep 19, 2014)

Ace is is not impressive

law wins quite easily


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## Hachibi (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> Ace wins law is not good enough to be the second commander for the WB pirates at his current strength level, and by virtue of Ace's raw power being way higher than Laws.



The commander aren't ranked in strenght


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 19, 2014)

K not too sure on that one. Still don't see Law having enough power to ward of Ace.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

Shiny said:


> Ace is is not impressive
> 
> law wins quite easily



>Second commander of the Whitebeard pirates.
>First and third commanders were able to hold their ground against the might of the Admirals.
>Fifth held off the World's Greatest Swordsman for a considerable amount of time.

Not impressive.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> >Second commander of the Whitebeard pirates.
> >First and third commanders were able to hold their ground against the might of the Admirals.
> >Fifth held off the World's Greatest Swordsman for a considerable amount of time.
> 
> Not impressive.



The WB commanders strength has nothing to do with their divisions.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> The WB commanders strength has nothing to do with their divisions.



You fucking cock-sucking Ace hating whore-mongerer, that wasn't even my point.

The point was that he was >_*a*_< division commander, and that commanders have been consistently impressive in their feats.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> You fucking cock-sucking Ace hating whore-mongerer, that wasn't even my point.
> 
> The point was that he was >_*a*_< division commander, and that commanders have been consistently impressive in their feats.



Ace getting defeated by Yami Teach is not on par with such feats as Jozu effortlessly blocking a slash from Mihawk and Marco sending Kizaru flying into a building.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Ace getting defeated by Yami Teach is not on par with such feats as *Jozu effortlessly blocking a slash from Mihawk* and Marco sending Kizaru flying into a building.



The bolded made me orgasm. Say it again. 

And Yami Teach got mandhandled by WB, so what? Anyone too overconfident and not an Admiral/Yonkou would have been treated the same way. There were no indicators that Yami Teach himself was not commander level.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> The bolded made me orgasm. Say it again.
> 
> And Yami Teach got mandhandled by WB, so what? Anyone too overconfident and not an Admiral/Yonkou would have been treated the same way. There were no indicators that Yami Teach himself was not commander level.



Jozu effortlessly blocked a slash from Mihawk. 

I agree Yami Teach was Commander level, but the guy who gets his ass handed to him by a half-dead Whitebeard high diffing Ace doesn't bode well for the latter.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Jozu effortlessly blocked a slash from Mihawk.
> 
> I agree Yami Teach was Commander level, but the guy who gets his ass handed to him by a half-dead Whitebeard high diffing Ace doesn't bode well for the latter.



Could Law be a commander in Whitebeard's crew? That's the question you must ask yourself. It's possible, however, it's not 100% certain. So like I said, either way, extreme.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> Could Law be a commander in Whitebeard's crew? That's the question you must ask yourself. It's possible, however, it's not 100% certain. So like I said, either way, extreme.



Yes. Especially since Drake is nearly confirmed to be in Kaido's crew. 

What I was disagreeing with is you using Jozu and Vista's feats to hype up Ace, when the division numbers mean nothing.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

The numbers may mean nothing, but the commander title means a lot.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> The numbers may mean nothing, but the commander title means a lot.



Yep, but Law is definitely strong enough to be a commander at this point.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Sep 19, 2014)

To me, Ace was portrayed weaker than he really is due to plot and late introduction to haki. Law got the two years skip growth. I would say Ace would be around Sabo's level after two years. Law vs preskip Ace, probably going either way. Favoring Law just because he has radio knife and haki. If Ace wasn't cockblocked by lack of haki feats, he takes it easily.


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Ace getting defeated by Yami Teach is not on par with such feats as Jozu effortlessly blocking a slash from Mihawk and Marco sending Kizaru flying into a building.



Ace stopped Aokiji if you want to focus on singular feats that way...


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> Ace stopped Aokiji if you want to focus on singular feats that way...



Ace blocked a seemingly non-serious attack from him. And even then, it doesn't match up to the strongest commander's feats.


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## Suit (Sep 19, 2014)

I think you just hate Ace, Luke.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Roo said:


> I think you just hate Ace, Luke.



I do hate Ace, but my like for characters has nothing to do with where I rank them power wise.


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Ace blocked a seemingly non-serious attack from him. And even then, it doesn't match up to the strongest commander's feats.



Good luck proving that. A non serious attack doesn't happen in the middle of war when everyone is watching and a notorious pirate that you plan to use as an example is going to get away. Aokiji was trying to stop him and failed thats the truth it happened its a feat. You tell me if Law could stop Aokiji in any shape or form given how he just performed against Fujitora and Doffy?


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> Good luck proving that. A non serious attack doesn't happen in the middle of war when everyone is watching and a notorious pirate that you plan to use as an example is going to get away. Aokiji was trying to stop him and failed thats the truth it happened its a feat. You tell me if Law could stop Aokiji in any shape or form given how he just performed against Fujitora and Doffy?



Kizaru and Aokiji did not appear serious for certain parts of the war. 

And Law destroyed one of Fujitora's meteors with no assistance. That is about equal to Ace blocking a single attack from Aokiji.


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## Canute87 (Sep 19, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Entei, gg.



Tact.

**


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Kizaru and Aokiji did not appear serious for certain parts of the war.
> 
> And Law destroyed one of Fujitora's meteors with no assistance. That is about equal to Ace blocking a single attack from Aokiji.



I don't remember Law doing that If he did its a decent feat, but you know Law also got owned by Fuji and Doffy. Ace wasn't owned by Aokiji. 

Also I have no idea why he wouldn't be serious in trying to stop Ace given Ace is the whole reason for the War that took place... And I can't really judge "seriousness" its not something tangible like stopping an admiral's attack. 

We can disagree here they are close enough in power and there is ambiguity with Law having haki and current feats where Ace we're not too sure about because he doesn't really have that many feats except for the BB battle which you can't really draw too many comparisons from, different styles and power. But I think Ace has more firepower than Law (pun not intended).


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 19, 2014)

Luke said:


> Jozu effortlessly blocked a slash from Mihawk.
> 
> I agree Yami Teach was Commander level, but the guy who gets his ass handed to him by a half-dead Whitebeard high diffing Ace doesn't bode well for the latter.


It was mid diff, and not only was Blackbeard hit with enough CIS to kill an elephant, he wasn't even trying to kill Ace. With CIS off and the intent to kill on, Blackbeard probably would have won at a lower diff than what had happened in the manga.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> I don't remember Law doing that If he did its a decent feat, but you know Law also got owned by Fuji and Doffy. Ace wasn't owned by Aokiji.
> 
> Also I have no idea why he wouldn't be serious in trying to stop Ace given Ace is the whole reason for the War that took place... And I can't really judge "seriousness" its not something tangible like stopping an admiral's attack.
> 
> We can disagree here they are close enough in power and there is ambiguity with Law having haki and current feats where Ace we're not too sure about because he doesn't really have that many feats except for the BB battle which you can't really draw too many comparisons from, different styles and power. But I think Ace has more firepower than Law (pun not intended).



Fighting Fujitora and Doflamingo at the same time is not the same as deflecting an attack from Aokiji. 

Aokiji let the Straw Hats go on multiple occasions. He barely takes his job seriously. 



Issho D Tea said:


> It was mid diff, and not only was Blackbeard hit with enough CIS to kill an elephant, he wasn't even trying to kill Ace. With CIS off and the intent to kill on, Blackbeard probably would have won at a lower diff than what had happened in the manga.



Yeah, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt with "high diff", nor did I account for the CIS....


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## Ruse (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> I don't remember Law doing that If he did its a decent feat, but you know Law also got owned by Fuji and Doffy. Ace wasn't owned by Aokiji.
> 
> Also I have no idea why he wouldn't be serious in trying to stop Ace given Ace is the whole reason for the War that took place... And I can't really judge "seriousness" its not something tangible like stopping an admiral's attack.
> 
> We can disagree here they are close enough in power and there is ambiguity with Law having haki and current feats where Ace we're not too sure about because he doesn't really have that many feats except for the BB battle which you can't really draw too many comparisons from, different styles and power. But I think Ace has more firepower than Law (pun not intended).



Aokiji only attacked once he didn't pursue Ace any further where as Law was further pursued by Doffy and Fuji after the first meteor big difference.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 19, 2014)

Jellal Fernandes said:


> Also I have no idea why he wouldn't be serious in trying to stop Ace given Ace is the whole reason for the War that took place... And I can't really judge "seriousness" its not something tangible like stopping an admiral's attack.


Kind of like how Aokiji sat on his ass after the SHs escaped a Buster Call that razed Enies Lobby (one of the WG's key locations) to the ground? Kind of like how he let Luffy and Robin go the first time he met them, after Luffy took out a Warlord, and Robin had been working with said Warlord to revive a WMD? Aokiji barely takes anything seriously. And the fact that Aokiji was able to gain a temporary edge over Whitebeard proves that he was not taking Ace seriously.


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## zenieth (Sep 19, 2014)

How does the commander argument hold any weight

considering Jozu and atmos both were commanders.


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## Luke (Sep 19, 2014)

zenieth said:


> How does the commander argument hold any weight
> 
> considering Jozu and atmos both were commanders.



Exactly, it doesn't.


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## Extravlad (Sep 19, 2014)

Ace beat the shit ouf Law.


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## Gohara (Sep 19, 2014)

I think it could go either way, but I would lean towards Ace winning with high to extremely high difficulty.


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## Dr. White (Sep 19, 2014)

Law Wins. Ace has no idea about Radio Knife, Mes, or shambles/tact. Law can just send his fire back at him, cut through large waves, and come in close range to cut him with Radio knife, and then it's GG. By feat Ace has no haki feats suggesting he has better COA than Vergo to boot, so even without Radio Knife it'd still be close. With knowledge, and intelligence favoring Law, I'm gonna have to give it to him High Diff.


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## Summoner (Sep 20, 2014)

Law is very strong.

However, Ace is the third seat in White Beard Pirates (2nd division commander). (3rd seat?)

Ace wins high diff


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## zenieth (Sep 20, 2014)

commanders aren't ranked.


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## tejas8055 (Sep 20, 2014)

Shichibukai title says it all. Ace refused it. Law requested it.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 20, 2014)

Law can technically deal with everything ace throws at him. Law wins.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 20, 2014)

mihawk wasn't remotely serious for the most part in the war = he was serious against vista
aokigi was serious for the most part in the war = he wasn't serious against ace


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 20, 2014)

tejas8055 said:


> Shichibukai title says it all. Ace refused it. Law requested it.


That's not really a good argument imo, Law requested it to help further his own plans against Doflamingo, and the rank of Warlord can be given to anyone from Buggy to Mihawk.


monkey d ace said:


> mihawk wasn't remotely serious for the most part in the war = he was serious against vista


What does this have to do with anything?


monkey d ace said:


> aokigi was serious for the most part in the war = he wasn't serious against ace


Refer to this:

*Spoiler*: __ 





Issho D Tea said:


> Kind of like how Aokiji sat on his ass after the SHs escaped a Buster Call that razed Enies Lobby (one of the WG's key locations) to the ground? Kind of like how he let Luffy and Robin go the first time he met them, after Luffy took out a Warlord, and Robin had been working with said Warlord to revive a WMD? Aokiji barely takes anything seriously. And the fact that Aokiji was able to gain a temporary edge over Whitebeard proves that he was not taking Ace seriously.








Dr. White said:


> Law Wins. *Ace has no idea about Radio Knife, Mes, or shambles/tact.* Law can just send his fire back at him, cut through large waves, and come in close range to cut him with Radio knife, and then it's GG. By feat Ace has no haki feats suggesting he has better COA than Vergo to boot, so even without Radio Knife it'd still be close. With knowledge, and intelligence favoring Law, I'm gonna have to give it to him High Diff.


This is a valid point.


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## Luke (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> mihawk wasn't remotely serious for the most part in the war = he was serious against vista
> aokigi was serious for the most part in the war = he wasn't serious against ace



I never said Mihawk was serious against Vista, and I actually said the opposite about Aokiji. Besides when he was fighting Whitebeard, he didn't appear anymore serious than Kizaru for most of the war. 

And even then, Ace blocked a *single attack* from him. Just like how Law blocked a *single attack *from Fujitora (his meteor).


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## monkey d ace (Sep 20, 2014)

just shows clear cut bias.

no need to refer to anything. aokigi at EL =/= aokigi at MF. the latter fought on even foot with WB and  even had the upperhand at a time, instantly took out jozu the moment he got distracted, bothered his ass to attack ace/luffy, and when luffy escaped in submarine, he didn't go 'oh shit, they escaped' he went ice-age straight after. while the former sat on his ass all the time.

@luke
my post wasn't intended for u. 

as for their similar feats. well, ace was in a much worse state than law, aokigi was attacking from behind, fujitora was showing off with that meteor. and overall ace had less time to react to his attack than law did.
that aside, the main reason why i will go with ace here is because i don't think law's fruit effect air/gas-like stuff. so he can't tact/cut things like fire/smoker/gas etc.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> just shows clear cut bias.
> 
> no need to refer to anything. aokigi at EL =/= aokigi at MF. *the latter fought on even foot with WB and  even had the upperhand at a time, instantly took out jozu the moment he got distracted*


That in itself tells us that he was holding back on Ace.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 20, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> That in itself tells us that he was holding back on Ace.


but when it comes to vista, that logic doesn't count right? anyways ace blocked him once, so it's completely plausible. also holding back =/= not going all out.


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## Ruse (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> mihawk wasn't remotely serious for the most part in the war = he was serious against vista
> aokigi was serious for the most part in the war = he wasn't serious against ace



Why did Aokiji not continue his pursuit of Ace after their initial stalemate then? He just let them go.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> but when it comes to vista, that logic doesn't count right?


Not sure what Vista has to do with this (it's Law in this thread, which he wins until we're shown otherwise), but if Mihawk could have stomped him, why did he run like a bitch? Vista holding his ground was a legit feat. Not saying Vista is top tier or that Mihawk would be pushed to his limit beating him, but Mihawk certainly couldn't no/low diff him, I can't see him running if he could have.


monkey d ace said:


> anyways ace blocked him once, so it's completely plausible. also holding back =/= not going all out.


...
Aokiji was able to gain an edge over an opponent who was much stronger than Ace, the only reason Whitebeard even got out of Ice Ball in the first place was because he had already charged a quake before Aokiji got the jump on him. How can this get any more obvious?


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## monkey d ace (Sep 20, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> Why did Aokiji not continue his pursuit of Ace after their initial stalemate then? He just let them go.


so why did oda not prolong their clash? obviously so akainu/ace situation happens like it did and akainu gains luffy's animosity.
answer this then, why would oda have aokigi to bother his ass and attack ace from behind?



Issho D Tea said:


> Not sure what Vista has to do with this (it's Law in this thread, which he wins until we're shown otherwise), but if Mihawk could have stomped him, why did he run like a bitch? Vista holding his ground was a legit feat. Not saying Vista is top tier or that Mihawk would be pushed to his limit beating him, but Mihawk certainly couldn't no/low diff him, I can't see him running if he could have.
> 
> ...
> Aokiji was able to gain an edge over an opponent who was much stronger than Ace, the only reason Whitebeard even got out of Ice Ball in the first place was because he had already charged a quake before Aokiji got the jump on him. How can this get any more obvious?


that same mihawk just a sec ago was struggling to land a hit on preTSluffy, mihawk never ran away, much less like a bitch, that's pure fanfiction. otherwise i could also say shit like why did he back down like a 'bitch' when he could've stomped crocodile?

not really, WB could've broke out of that as easy whether he had a quake readied or not. u don't have to be a top tier to block a single attack from a top tier, c'mon now!


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> so why did oda not prolong their clash? obviously so akainu/ace situation happens like it did and akainu gains luffy's animosity.


And that happened so well because it's perfectly in character for Aokiji to not take anything seriously.


monkey d ace said:


> that same mihawk just a sec ago was struggling to land a hit on preTSluffy


Because we have to take all scenes with Pre TS Luffy seriously, amirite?


monkey d ace said:


> mihawk never ran away, much less like a bitch, that's pure fanfiction.



Mihawk was indeed the one who called off the match.


monkey d ace said:


> otherwise i could also say shit like why did he back down like a 'bitch' when he could've stomped crocodile?


Croc's a living outlier, and for all we know, more WB Commanders came to fend off Mihawk.


monkey d ace said:


> not really, WB could've broke out of that as easy whether he had a quake readied or not. u don't have to be a top tier to block a single attack from a top tier, c'mon now!


How do we know it? That was one of Aokiji's best moves yet.


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## Ruse (Sep 20, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> so why did oda not prolong their clash? obviously so akainu/ace situation happens like it did and akainu gains luffy's animosity.
> answer this then, why would oda have aokigi to bother his ass and attack ace from behind?



Aokiji was obviously trying to stop them initially I won't deny that but he didn't bother after the stalemate which supports the notion that he was half assing it especially when its been shown prior that he doesn't take his job as seriously as some of his peers e.g Akainu.


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## Dr. White (Sep 20, 2014)

Why do people think the person who's ice lasted a whole week against Akainu's magma, would have any difficulty overpowering Ace's fire at full power? If Ace truly stalemated a full power pheasent from Aokiji then Akainu should have wasted him and PH would be an island of magma.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 20, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Why do people think the person who's ice lasted a whole week against Akainu's magma, would have any difficulty overpowering Ace's fire at full power? If Ace truly stalemated a full power pheasent from Aokiji then Akainu should have wasted him and PH would be an island of magma.


Minor correction, it was ten days, but agreed with everything else.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 20, 2014)

With full knowledge, Law would probably edge it out, but Ace wrecks his shit otherwise.


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## Luke (Sep 20, 2014)

If Ace can wreck Law, then he can wreck Luffy too. 

And Ace wrecking current Luffy would make absolutely no sense.


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## Dr. White (Sep 20, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> With full knowledge, Law would probably edge it out, but Ace wrecks his shit otherwise.



How so? What has Ace shown offensively that even threatens Law? He cut/redirected meteor's, slashed a mountain in half, and his room is bigger than anything Ace has shown. 

Full knowledge is the only scenario where he has a good shot at beating Law, because otherwise he doesn't know about shit like Mes, or Radio Knife/Injection. Once again even with full knowledge Ace's Fire is countered by spatial control, and he can't even afford to get touched by Law's who no doubt will be going for the kill. I see no reason Ace should be granted better COA feats than Vergo who's strongest form get cut as well. So not only does Law counter an AOE/close range logia like Ace, but he has better feats, and intelligence. So even with full knowledge I'd say Law has the better odds of winning, although Ace winning isn't out of the question.

With No knowledge Law wins Mid diff(ace is more likely to be cocky with Logia, Law is gonna be more calculating and counter his logia form). With Rep Law wins a solid High Diff. Ace would gain a bit of insight on his hax, and maybe see him as a worthy opponent since he's a shichi. But without specific knowledge he doesn't really fare much better. A full knowledge fight is High Extreme diff Law More often than not but Ace can still win.


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## Ruse (Sep 20, 2014)

Luke said:


> If Ace can wreck Law, then he can wreck Luffy too.
> 
> And Ace wrecking current Luffy would make absolutely no sense.



Inb4Luffy>>>Law


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 20, 2014)

So you think Luffy caught up to Ace during the two years he had trained?

Even if he did, Luffy's rubber ability is useless against Ace's fruit; he'll probably get burned, unless full-body Haki is shown. Personally, I don't think Luffy has mastered BH yet, and Conquerer's Haki is useless against someone who's got a will that is equally powerful. 

Also, Law is just hax and intelligence, thus he's a different kind of match-up.

Edit: On my phone, Dr. White. I'll respond to your post when I get to my laptop.


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## MYJC (Sep 20, 2014)

Law wins, probably with slightly higher difficulty than he had with Smoker. 

Ace doesn't have the haki feats to make me think he can deal with Law's hax, nor has he been shown to be particularly impressive physically. He gets Mes'd.


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 20, 2014)

Ace should be on par with Hancock and thus around high diff any M3-level fighter depending on skills and fighting type.

Ace would "high" diff Luffy and probably "very high" diff Law, since he is better suited against Logias. Just minimal difference here.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> And that happened so well because it's perfectly in character for Aokiji to not take anything seriously.
> 
> Because we have to take all scenes with Pre TS Luffy seriously, amirite?
> 
> ...


except that MF aokigi was taking shit seriously in the war.
mihawk's feats in MF clearly shows his mindset. shouldn't be any different against vista.
which is because withdrawing from the ice was their plan all along. 
so everyone is outlier except for vista? bs is bs, vista other feats in MF are: cutting cannon balls, needing his two swords and outside assistance to stop one giant fodder swing, being a non-factor against an admiral. mihawk/vista's other showings all suggest that mihawk wasn't serious in their clash.
what? u really think WB can't break out of ice-ball. and there's no proof that his readied quake had anything to do him breaking out of it in the first place, for me it seemed that his body tremored and the ice cracked.



Heavenly Demon said:


> Aokiji was obviously trying to stop them initially I won't deny that but he didn't bother after the stalemate which supports the notion that he was half assing it especially when its been shown prior that he doesn't take his job as seriously as some of his peers e.g Akainu.


the fact that he bothered his ass in the first place and sneak attacked them goes against that notion, which in the first place wasn't in aokigi's character in MF.
why is it that either he half assed it or was as bloodlusted as akainu? seriously, people act like there is no other mindset aokigi would've had except these two when it comes to this feat.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> except that MF aokigi was taking shit seriously in the war.


Except when he attacked Ace, I already posted proof of this, I'm not doing it again.


monkey d ace said:


> mihawk's feats in MF clearly shows his mindset. shouldn't be any different against vista. mihawk/vista's other showings all suggest that mihawk wasn't serious in their clash.


Vista was taking the fight to him, and if he could have stomped him, Mihawk should have done so, he's well known for his immense pride.


monkey d ace said:


> so everyone is outlier except for vista?


Not really. Just the ones who are outliers, in this case, Pre TS Luffy (who had an insane amount of plot armor) and Croc.


monkey d ace said:


> bs is bs, vista other feats in MF are: cutting cannon balls, needing his two swords and outside assistance to stop one giant fodder swing, being a non-factor against an admiral.


And here are Ace's feats; losing mid diff to a CIS stricken Blackbeard, getting flat out stomped by a serious Admiral, and much like Buggy, got his Commander position because there was a spot open (but unlike Buggy, Ace got his job because no one wanted it) yet I don't see you berating him.


monkey d ace said:


> what? u really think WB can't break out of ice-ball. and there's no proof that his readied quake had anything to do him breaking out of it in the first place, *for me it seemed that his body tremored and the ice cracked.*



*Spoiler*: __ 







I have no clue how you got that idea...


Luke said:


> If Ace can wreck Law, then he can wreck Luffy too.
> 
> And Ace wrecking current Luffy would make absolutely no sense.


QFT.


----------



## Ruse (Sep 21, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> *his readied quake had anything to do him breaking out of it in the first place*








> the fact that he bothered his ass in the first place and sneak attacked them goes against that notion, which in the first place wasn't in aokigi's character in MF.
> *why is it that either he half assed it or was as bloodlusted as akainu?* seriously, people act like there is no other mindset aokigi would've had except these two when it comes to this feat.



Because he only attacked them once and didn't go after them any further when there was nothing stopping him from doing so.


----------



## Dr. White (Sep 21, 2014)

Mihawk was serious and told Shanks he was sorry for killing Luffy, yet Luffy dodged his attack and got away. Pre- TS Luffy </= Mihawk?

there is a difference between doing something for a purpose vs with a purpose. (See Aokiji and Akainu's attitudes respectively during the war.)


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

i feel like Ace is underestimated here . But,at the same time i understand why people do that too. Ace have lots of negative feats & hardly any good feats.

The reason for this is that Ace just fucked with wrong person every time.Either he went on against the absolute strongest person in the series,the Admirals or went on against the main villain of the series. In every fight he was in, the nature of the opponents ability played a huge role.  Magma eats fire , BB's Yami can nullify fire , Jinbei's water is probably superior to fire , Smoker's smoke is also somewhat immune to fire . Even the feat Against Aokiji is assumed to be not that good because fire > ice. So, he never had a clearcut fair fight for us to clearly know how strong he was.

So, i personally dont look at the feats to determine how strong Ace is. Instead i go on with this logic. Ace died at 20 years & Luffy is now 19. Ace still has 1 years on Luffy. So, Ace > Luffy=Law


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> i feel like Ace is underestimated here . But,at the same time i understand why people do that too. Ace have lots of negative feats & hardly any good feats.
> 
> The reason for this is that Ace just fucked with wrong person every time.Either he went on against the absolute strongest person in the series,the Admirals or went on against the main villain of the series. In every fight he was in, the nature of the opponents ability played a huge role.  Magma eats fire , BB's Yami can nullify fire , Jinbei's water is probably superior to fire , Smoker's smoke is also somewhat immune to fire . Even the feat Against Aokiji is assumed to be not that good because fire > ice. So, he never had a clearcut fair fight for us to clearly know how strong he was.
> 
> So, i personally dont look at the feats to determine how strong Ace is. Instead i go on with this logic.* Ace died at 20 years & Luffy is now 19. Ace still has 1 years on Luffy. So, Ace > Luffy=Law *



Has nothing to do with age.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Age means jack, otherwise Zoro > Luffy.


----------



## Magentabeard (Sep 21, 2014)

Why cant Law just cut his entei in half? Law's mountain slashers are of equal destructive power but faster.. Law low high diff.


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## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Has nothing to do with age.



generally ,yes. u r right.

But, Ace & Luffy r special case. When Ace was 10 & Luffy was 7 . The age difference was the real reason Luffy was behind Ace. Ace & Luffy both has the PK potential unlike any others. If Ace was alive Ace would have been the PK first.



Issho D Tea said:


> Age means jack, otherwise Zoro > Luffy.



zolo does not have the potential. the only potential he has is to solo


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Why cant Law just cut his entei in half? Law's mountain slashers are of equal destructive power but faster.. Law low high diff.



People like to pretend law can't do anything.


----------



## Orca (Sep 21, 2014)

Ace wins for now. After dressrossa, I might side with Law. Soloing Doma's crew and stalemating jinbei before Ace even became a commander seems more impressive to me.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> Why cant Law just cut his entei in half? Law's mountain slashers are of equal destructive power but faster.. Law low high diff.


Tact would be better than Law's Mountain Cutter, all he has to do is point, and toss that fireball out of his Room.


Lionel Messi said:


> generally ,yes. u r right.
> 
> But, when Ace was 10 & Luffy was 7 . The age difference was the real reason Luffy was behind Ace. *Ace & Luffy both has the PK potential unlike any others.*


Ok, Ace had potential, so what? Potential is nothing if it isn't used.


Lionel Messi said:


> If Ace was alive Ace would have been the PK first.


How do we know it?


Luffee said:


> Ace wins for now. After dressrossa, I might side with Law. Soloing Doma's crew


Doma has what feats exactly? As for how they fought, I have a feeling their fight went something like this:

Ace could likely take out armadas without even scruffing his shoes.


Luffee said:


> and stalemating jinbei before Ace even became a commander seems more impressive to me.


We don't even know how strong Jimbei was back then or how strong Ace became after that (he may even have been with Whitebeard one year or less).


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Ok, Ace had potential, so what? Potential is nothing if it isn't used.



He was at the NW & joined with an Yonkou crew. So, i am sure he was utilizing his potential.



> How do we know it?



He has the PKs blood & its manga. And also I remember Sengoku saying something like "If we dont kill him then he will be the PK. So, we need to kill him now even if it means fighting WB" or something like that


----------



## Dr. White (Sep 21, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Ace wins for now. After dressrossa, I might side with Law.


What? I don't understand. What else do you personally need to see from Law for this to obviously be in his favor? Law has better feats, Haki, Logia Injuring Hax, the ability to redirect or simply cut through all of Ace's arsenal, etc. Hell if there are any people around Law can just lol bait Ace over to their position and soul switch him into a fodder body. 



> Soloing Doma's crew and stalemating jinbei before Ace even became a commander seems more impressive to me.


It can be argued by feats that FI Luffy can beat Jinbei. You are using hype to completely overule feats here which isn't logical. 

By hype Law was able to get the Shichibukai Position like Blackbeard got (and I think Ace was offered? i don't recall) by going into the New World and getting a ton of hearts from New World Pirates. So everything considered if we add up portrayal, hype, and feats Law wins out comfortably. He simply has the better tools and advantages.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> He was at the NW & joined with an Yonkou crew. So, i am sure he was utilizing his potential.
> 
> He has the PKs blood & its manga.


Despite all that, Ace clearly wasn't strong enough to give Yami Blackbeard (someone who was on the ground crying after trying to take on a half faced Whitebeard) more than a mid diff fight. Like I said before, age, heritage, and potential mean jack.
As for the thread, I stand by what I said. Law's powers (especially Radio Knife) give him the edge over Ace and the intel (which is rep only) favors Law far more than it does Ace.


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## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> generally ,yes. u r right.
> 
> But, when Ace was 10 & Luffy was 7 . The age difference was the real reason Luffy was behind Ace. Ace & Luffy both has the PK potential unlike any others. If Ace was alive Ace would have been the PK first.



The difference between Luffy and Ace has kids had to deal with luffy learning how to use his DF as well as how to fight he couldn't even throw a decent punch with the DF.

What had occurred there after was Ace starting his journey before Luffy which was about what three years or so right?  So Ace had three years on luffy as an active pirate.

He had one year as a rookie  (whether or not his journey was harder of easier we'll never know though)  and two years as a whitebeard crew member.  

This is where the issue for me lies in.  For one  Ace had already joined the Whitebeard pirates after the Golden Age started by roger which meant all the massive battles that had transpired which allowed the other three yonkou to rise to power. So suffice to say the place was already "balanced".  Ace still fought in the new world yes but In my opinion I doubt it was on the level the clusterfuck of the golden age to truly push him to massive levels.   Whitebeard was yonkou, massive territories under his control, virtually untouchable.  Most of the people who would challenge Whitebeard would seem to be other new pirates trying to make a name for themselves.  Doma doesn't seem that strong to me.  Next he spent about half a year tracking down Blackbeard in paradise, there's no possible fights he would take part there to push him further.

Now  Luffy now,  taking down two shichibukai's world government officials in his first year,  pretty damn impressive, what we have now is almost two years direct training from rayleigh on haki along with fighting beasts according to rayleigh were easily stronger than him.  Luffy finished a whole six months rayleigh's original time frame so had about another six months to train and eat meat.

So  Luffy has had more opportunities to get the most of of his abilities and potential than Ace did even though Ace was stronger starting out.  So  He's definitely caught up (seeing he's dead) and more than likely stronger especially because of the six motnhs ace wasted.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> (someone who was on the ground crying after trying to take on a half faced Whitebeard)
> .



even so WB is WB. If one attack from him was enough to destroy the 10 days worth of stamina of Akainu then BB getting up from that quack in the head was super impressive from BB.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> even so WB is WB.


Which is why a half faced Whitebeard destroying Blackbeard with his bisento and physical strength alone makes Blackbeard (and by extension Ace) look worse.


----------



## Orca (Sep 21, 2014)

> Doma has what feats exactly? As for how they fought, I have a feeling their fight went something like this:
> Spoiler:
> 
> Ace could likely take out armadas without even scruffing his shoes.



Doma was one of the prominent allies of WB and a veteran of NW. We don't know how strong he exactly was but based around his hype and status I'd say it's logical to assume that he was atleast as strong as doffy's seats.

Yes Ace can undoubtedly take out armadas by AOE but that only works against fodder. Against Doma and possibly his top crew members he should have won after a decent fight. 



> We don't even know how strong Jimbei was back then or how strong Ace became after that (he may even have been with Whitebeard one year or less).



This matchup requires that we make the most logical assumptions based on what we know. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to tell who wins at all.

Ace vs Jimbei happened about 3 or 4 years before Timeskip if I'm not mistaken. Meaning that Jibei was about 41 or 40 years old at that time. So out of his 44 year lifespan I see no reason to think that Jinbei had massive growth from age 40-42 to 44. I'd say he was only slightly weaker than we saw him pretimeskip. Ace on the other hand was growing at a very very fast pace. So even if we assume that his growth rate slowed down a bit due to pursuing BB, he still should have surpassed jinbei by a good margin when we saw him pre TS.


----------



## DavyChan (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Yeah, unless Oda shows otherwise, I think he and Luffy have surpassed Ace.





Canute87 said:


> Definitely Trafalgar law.





Heavenly Demon said:


> Law high/extreme diff



i law winning. i think ace wasprobably 2 or 3x strongerthan pre skip luffy. luffy is 10x stronger now. law is close to luffy's strength. law has this low high diff.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Which is why a half faced Whitebeard destroying Blackbeard with his bisento and *physical strength* alone makes Blackbeard (and by extension Ace) look worse.


PS ? He used DF of BB's face not PS  also he attacked BB & co with a DF attack just the moment he saw BB.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Doma was one of the prominent allies of WB and a veteran of NW. *We don't know how strong he exactly was*


So we don't know how legit that feat was then, do we? And apart from the top 3 Commanders, and arguably Oars, did any of Whitebeard's allies/crew members really give any good feats at Marineford?


Luffee said:


> Yes Ace can undoubtedly take out armadas by AOE but that only works against fodder. Against Doma and possibly his top crew members *he should have won after a decent fight.*


How do we know it?


Luffee said:


> Ace vs Jimbei happened about 3 or 4 years before Timeskip if I'm not mistaken. Meaning that Jibei was about 41 or 40 years old at that time. So out of his 44 year lifespan I see no reason to think that Jinbei had massive growth from age 40-42 to 44. I'd say he was only slightly weaker than we saw him pretimeskip.


1.) We don't know when characters in OP reach their Prime, and they reach them at different rates, because once in awhile, Oda doesn't really care about those details. Blackbeard is in the exact same boat as Jimbei, and his physical stats likely got an immense boost.
2.) We don't know when a Fishman reaches their Prime. How old is 40 for a Fishman anyway? They have been shown to have a completely different biology than humans. It's not a stretch to say they have longer lifespans than humans.
3.) Jimbei is likely going to join the SH Crew, and he'll need to keep improving, likely faster than ever.


Luffee said:


> Ace on the other hand was growing at a very very fast pace. So even if we assume that his growth rate slowed down a bit due to pursuing BB, he still should have surpassed jinbei by a good margin when we saw him pre TS.


Except we don't know how much stronger Ace got.

Btw, any suggestions how Ace deals with Radio Knife, Mes, Shambles, etc?


Lionel Messi said:


> PS ? He used DF of BB's face not PS  also he attacked BB & co with a DF attack just the moment he saw BB.



*Spoiler*: __ 







Blackbeard nullified his powers, yet Whitebeard was still able to destroy him with his bisento, then physically manhandle Blackbeard (who couldn't break free from his grip), even with 1.9 feet in the grave.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Btw, any suggestions how Ace deals with Radio Knife, Mes, Shambles, etc?



He easily dodges with with super sonic reactions and COO people love to give his ass.


----------



## Orca (Sep 21, 2014)

> What? I don't understand. What else do you personally need to see from Law for this to obviously be in his favor? Law has better feats, Haki, Logia Injuring Hax, the ability to redirect or simply cut through all of Ace's arsenal, etc. Hell if there are any people around Law can just lol bait Ace over to their position and soul switch him into a fodder body.



Law doesn't have better feats and we don't know who has the better Haki either. Everything else you said just tells us that Law has the means to fight and injure Ace but they don't necessarily tell us Law can beat ace. A lot of other things matter in figh as well such as reflexes, CQC, strength etc.. By your logic what's stopping Law to soul switch an admiral?



> It can be argued by feats that FI Luffy can beat Jinbei. You are using hype to completely overule feats here which isn't logical.
> 
> By hype Law was able to get the Shichibukai Position like Blackbeard got (and I think Ace was offered? i don't recall) by going into the New World and getting a ton of hearts from New World Pirates. So everything considered if we add up portrayal, hype, and feats Law wins out comfortably. He simply has the better tools and advantages.



I'm not overruling feats at all. I'd appreciate if you showed me any feat that tells us that Ace can't possibly win this fight.

Becoming a shichibukai doesn't really give law enough hype since peeps like Moria and croc were also shichibukai. Taking the hearts of NW pirates also doesn't give more hype since we don't know the level of those NW pirates. It's almost certain that they were all scrubs.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

No seriously are people really going to just flat out ignore that long ass post I made.


Lionel Messi  read the fucking  thing  and answer me right now.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> The difference between Luffy and Ace has kids had to deal with luffy learning how t......... and more than likely stronger especially because of the six motnhs ace wasted.



We have front row seat to everything Luffy is doing since he started his journey while he have few panel of Ace. So, they r probably not comparable. 

But, within that few panel we know that Ace was not just sitting around (fighting Doma ) he was fighting he even fought someone for 5 days straight (how can u top that level of XP ). & i am sure all of his opponent was stronger than some beast on Luffy's training island.
Yes, Luffy been through a lot but dont forget he has people like Sanji & Zoro to back him up while Ace cleared GL & some of NW with bunch of fodder. So, i think it evens things out a bit.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He grabbed BB then used his DF. U can see it clearly .

@Canute, u need to wait for ur turn 

Edit: My next reply will be very late guys. Barcelona's game is about to start. I cant wait for my boy Messi to score today :33


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> He grabbed BB then used his DF. U can see it clearly


During which he couldn't break free from Whitebeard's grip. Bottom line is, Ace to Blackbeard, who was in turn powerless against a half faced Whitebeard, so saying Ace > Luffy and Law, especially based on "potential" and such isn't enough to cut it.


Luffee said:


> Law doesn't have better feats


- Blocked Doflamingo's Overheat (which quickly traveled to Dressrosa) with his sword, that's a very good physical feat for Law.
- Took attacks from Doflamingo and Issho.
- Despite his stamina draining issue, Law was still able to buy time for the Sunny, save Sanji, swap around meteors, stall Doflamingo in 1 on 1 combat, etc.


Luffee said:


> and we don't know who has the better Haki either.


Law cut Vergo, who is well known and hyped for his Haki, in one shot, along with the SAD room, and the whole mountain with it.


Luffee said:


> Becoming a shichibukai doesn't really give law enough hype since peeps like Moria and croc were also shichibukai. Taking the hearts of NW pirates also doesn't give more hype since we don't know the level of those NW pirates. It's almost certain that they were all scrubs.


Yet you seem fine hyping up Doma when we don't know how strong he is.


Canute87 said:


> He easily dodges with with super sonic reactions and COO people love to give his ass.


GASP! You're absolutely right! Seems that Law has no chance of matching Ace.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> He grabbed BB then used his DF. U can see it clearly .
> 
> @Canute, u need to wait for ur turn
> 
> Edit: My next reply will be very late guys. Barcelona's game is about to start. I cant wait for my boy Messi to score today :33



Yeah enjoy your 1 -0 victory.

God barcelona games are so damn boring to watch sometimes.


----------



## Orca (Sep 21, 2014)

> So we don't know how legit that feat was then, do we? And apart from the top 3 Commanders, and arguably Oars, did any of Whitebeard's allies/crew members really give any good feats at Marineford?



We can make a logical assumption as to how legit that feat was. If can't even do that then it wouldn't be possible to answer this thread. Marineford was stacked with top tiers. So obviously someone on Doma's level wouldn't seem impressive especially when he's a less plot relevant character which means even less panel time. So we have to use his status coupled with what little feats we have.



> How do we know it?



Because Doma shouldn't be fodder. If you actually think that ace took him in one attack then it only helps my case since it would make ace look even better.



> 1.) We don't know when characters in OP reach their Prime, and they reach them at different rates, because once in awhile, Oda doesn't really care about those details. Blackbeard is in the exact same boat as Jimbei, and his physical stats likely got an immense boost.
> 2.) We don't know when a Fishman reaches their Prime. How old is 40 for a Fishman anyway? They have been shown to have a completely different biology than humans. It's not a stretch to say they have longer lifespans than humans.
> 3.) Jimbei is likely going to join the SH Crew, and he'll need to keep improving, likely faster than ever.



I'm not arguing that jimbei can't grow in his 40s. I'm arguing that there is no reason for him to grow so quickly in those 3 or 4 years. In BB's case there was. 

Like Jinbei stayed fodder for 40 years of his life and then somehow he became strong enough to stop blows from Akainu in the last 4 years? No reason to think so. It's logical to assume he was only slightly weaker 4 years age given his growth rate.



> Except we don't know how much stronger Ace got.



We do know he got a lot stronger. How strong specifically doesn't matter.



> Btw, any suggestions how Ace deals with Radio Knife, Mes, Shambles, etc?



Same way any other stronger character than law would. By dodging, blocking and counter attacking. I mean why couldn't law just Mes or shambles doffy in a 1 on 1?



> - Blocked Doflamingo's Overheat (which quickly traveled to Dressrosa) with his sword, that's a very good physical feat for Law.
> - Took attacks from Doflamingo and Issho.
> - Despite his stamina draining issue, Law was still able to buy time for the Sunny, save Sanji, swap around meteors, stall Doflamingo in 1 on 1 combat, etc.



I didn't say law doesn't have feats. I said he doesn't have better feats. None of this counts as better feats.



> Law cut Vergo, who is well known and hyped for his Haki, in one shot, along with the SAD room, and the whole mountain with it.



Vergo's Haki is impressive for someone like Sanji or franky. For someone like Doffy or Sabo it's not impressive. So it's all relatively speaking. We don't know if Vergo's Haki is better than Ace or not. So there is no comparison to be made here between Law and Ace's Haki.



> Yet you seem fine hyping up Doma when we don't know how strong he is.



 I didn't say you can't use law's hype. I said it's not more impressive than Ace's. I find no contradiction in my posts here.


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 21, 2014)

Law cutted Doflamingo in the cheek.


----------



## monkey d ace (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> Except when he attacked Ace, I already posted proof of this, I'm not doing it again.
> 
> Vista was taking the fight to him, and if he could have stomped him, Mihawk should have done so, he's well known for his immense pride.
> 
> ...


mihawk should've done a lot of other things too, guess what? he didn't. because he didn't care less. 
and daz, and vista. mihawk just never was into it.
only bits here and there were shown, the rest of the fight was off-panel, the ending included. so u can't really say what diff the fight was. mentions CIS for BB, doesn't mention how YYnM restricted ace's powers, kay. also teach CIS was present in the beginning only, unlike teach's DF, which was there for all the fight.
DF disadvantage+severely worn out/exhausted+takes a free magma fist? most high tiers would end up getting stomped if put in the same situation. ace was portrayed as one of the strongest commanders, comparing him to buggy is laughable, especially when accusing me just afterwards of berating someone. vista just haven't shown anything to make me suggest mihawk was serious in their clash, and mihawk's mindset in the war doesn't help one bit.

i'd add to his feats, lasted five days against jinbie whilst a rookie, when he had the location disadvantage and managed to stand up to take on WB afterwards. stamina/strength/endurance feat.(and since ace's growth-rate is comparable to luffy, who went form being a fodder to jinbei, to his level in 2 yrs, so after 3 yrs in the NW, ace should be comfortably above MF jinbie who was M3 level back then) reacted to aokigi when he was attacked from behind. reaction feat.

WB himself is a quake man. and as u can see the ice begins cracking at a different place from where his readied quake was.



Heavenly Demon said:


> Because he only attacked them once and didn't go after them any further when there was nothing stopping him from doing so.


WB himself is a walking quake.

why are u repeating urself? i already told u why. also u haven't answered my question. and no that doesn't mean that he either half assed it or was as bloodlusted as akainu. seriously acting like he couldn't be just relatively serious.


----------



## mido (Sep 21, 2014)

judging by strength i'd say they are about equal maybe ace a bit stronger but not significantly
the problem i think when fighting vs law is that u have to be atleast a good amount stronger than him to stand a chance because of his hax oneshot abilities

ace would sure get hit by law at some point

i go with law, still high difficulty


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 21, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> mihawk should've done a lot of other things too, guess what? he didn't. because he didn't care less.


So, Mihawk would rather ditch a fight he could have stomped easily, despite the fact it would be an insult to his pride? Doesn't make any sense, but ok.


monkey d ace said:


> and daz, and vista. mihawk just never was into it.


Daz Bones only blocked one attack, Vista actually stalemated Mihawk, I don't think I need to explain the difference.


monkey d ace said:


> only bits here and there were shown, the rest of the fight was off-panel, the ending included. so u can't really say what diff the fight was. mentions CIS for BB, doesn't mention how YYnM restricted ace's powers, kay. also teach CIS was present in the beginning only, unlike teach's DF, which was there for all the fight.


1.) Blackbeard wasn't even trying to kill Ace, he was trying to get him to join his crew.
2.) Ace could still hit him with ranged attacks and got some hits in before the fight properly got under way.
3.) Blackbeard took attacks from Whitebeard and Sengoku. Ace was nowhere near putting Blackbeard down. Mid diff is perfectly reasonable.


monkey d ace said:


> DF disadvantage+severely worn out/exhausted+takes a free magma fist? most high tiers would end up getting stomped if put in the same situation.


And yet you think it's fair to call Vista a non factor just because he failed to hit Akainu's actual body once. Vista proved he could at least his own for a time against top tiers, Ace didn't.


monkey d ace said:


> ace was portrayed as one of the strongest commanders, comparing him to buggy is laughable, especially when accusing me just afterwards of berating someone.


I really wasn't being serious about Buggy. I was making a point.


monkey d ace said:


> i'd add to his feats, lasted five days against jinbie whilst a rookie, when he had the location disadvantage and managed to stand up to take on WB afterwards. stamina/strength/endurance feat.(and since ace's growth-rate is comparable to luffy, who went form being a fodder to jinbei, to his level in 2 yrs, so after 3 yrs in the NW, ace should be comfortably above MF jinbie who was M3 level back then) reacted to aokigi when he was attacked from behind. reaction feat.


I already proved Aokiji wasn't taking Ace seriously. Ace's feats aren't on par with the strongest Commanders and Law's powers are ideally suited for Ace.


monkey d ace said:


> WB himself is a quake man. and as u can see the ice begins cracking at a different place from where his readied quake was.


That can just as easily have been where Oda wanted to draw, to let us know that Whitebeard was ok, and we don't know if he could have broke free if Whitebeard hadn't charged a quake beforehand. If you want to say he could, it's on you to prove it.


----------



## Krippy (Sep 21, 2014)

This was made last week. Ace whoops his ass unless he goes all out early on.


----------



## Luke (Sep 21, 2014)

Mihawk leaving the fight with Vista is similar to Kizaru choosing not to fight Beckman. 

Could they have beaten their opponents? Most likely. But they both knew it wouldn't be an easy fight, and they both backed off for a reason.


----------



## monkey d ace (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> So, Mihawk would rather ditch a fight he could have stomped easily, despite the fact it would be an insult to his pride? Doesn't make any sense, but ok.
> 
> Daz Bones only blocked one attack, Vista actually stalemated Mihawk, I don't think I need to explain the difference.
> 
> ...


nothing about that was insulting, he was moving according to plan. and he wasn't obliged to fight vista seriously.
daz blocking an attack from a guy like mihawk(who seemed like he went for the kill) doesn't make sense.
kill=beat up. BB was doing the latter alright.
hello! there's black vortex? ace was restricted, there's no denying that. 2 attacks ain't much to say he got an advantage against some1 like BB.
fight was mostly off-panel including ending so as i said, we can't know for sure how much BB was pushed. also mid diff is like smoker v law, and ace pushed BB a lot more than smoker did.
really? i've explained this more than once already, it isn't just because he failed to hurt him. do i really need to explain it again? vista proved shit! basically a serious injured vista w/o his swords taking on akainu while needing to take a free magma fist, well obviously end up like ace. 
while if u put ace alongside all them WB commanders just like vista, he'll survive alright!
well it didn't make much sense.
wait...what? proved u say? u can't be serious.... but again! for some of u there's only two options, either half assed or mad bloodlusted. nothing proves law's DF work on gases/air like other things. if he shows anything, then i can agree with this.
so countering an assumption by an assumption then ask me to prove ur one is wrong? that's not how BoP works.


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## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Krippy said:


> This was made last week. Ace whoops his ass unless he goes all out early on.



Ace whoops his ass with what?


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## Shinthia (Sep 21, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> During which he couldn't break free from Whitebeard's grip. Bottom line is, Ace to Blackbeard, who was in turn powerless against a half faced Whitebeard, so saying Ace > Luffy and Law, especially based on "potential" and such isn't enough to cut it.



Again WB is WB against him anyone who is not Admiral or the absolute Top Tier will be helpless/look bad. And IMHO BB did not do that bad. Its his character to be clumsy & dumb fuck at the beginning of a fight (Luffy punching , Magellan poisoning,Ace fire fist etc.) but none of those attacks were enough to keep him down. He always gets up as if its nothing. Same thing happened with WB . WB's first quake attack to him & his crew then his bisento's cut & quack to face all of those was not enough to keep BB down. Thats impressive , faceless WB or not.

As for the PS part , BB blocked one of WB's attack (the one where DF got nullified) with his hand so in PS department BB is not that far behind.


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## Kaiser (Sep 21, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> Again WB is WB against him anyone who is not Admiral or the absolute Top Tier will be helpless/look bad. And IMHO BB did not do that bad. Its his character to be clumsy & dumb fuck at the beginning of a fight (Luffy punching , Magellan poisoning,Ace fire fist etc.) but none of those attacks were enough to keep him down. He always gets up as if its nothing. Same thing happened with WB . WB's first quake attack to him & his crew then his bisento's cut & quack to face all of those was not enough to keep BB down. Thats impressive , faceless WB or not.
> 
> As for the PS part , BB blocked one of WB's attack (the one where DF got nullified) with his hand so in PS department BB is not that far behind.


Thank you. Oh god, don't know why BB is that underrated. It's like people don't understand his character at all. He is Luffy's alter-ego, people capable to underperform even against weaker opponents because like Shiliew told to BB, he is too careless. Whitebeard himself mentioned the fact he got the upperhand because he got careless. It wasn't his real power


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## B Rabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

People underestimate Law because he's the popular boy to hate right now.


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## Krippy (Sep 21, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Ace whoops his ass with what?



Ace choke slams him but with fire this time. His better physical stats + no knowledge for law means he's gonna give him hell.


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## B Rabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

I don't really see Ace's impressive physical stats.


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## Canute87 (Sep 21, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Ace choke slams him but with fire this time. His *better physical stats* + no knowledge for law means he's gonna give him hell.



Now please well me where do these amazing superior physical stats come from?


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## Lawliet (Sep 21, 2014)

Ace dies, a 2nd time


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## Peppoko (Sep 22, 2014)

Ace gets the Smoker-treatment.


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## Shinthia (Sep 22, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Yeah enjoy your 1 -0 victory.
> 
> God barcelona games are so damn boring to watch sometimes.



5-0 even after Messi missing a penalty 

And yes, sometimes Barca play style is slow & boring when they r not taking the game that seriously. But, u will always see some magical dribbling or defense rapeing through pass. But, iff Barca is trailing & fighting to come back ,thats when Barca show his true colour .


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## zenieth (Sep 22, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Now please well me where do these amazing superior physical stats come from?



being shirtless


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