# BM Minato Vs Tobirama



## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

Well, apparently Tobirama is now BM Minato's level.  

Location: Naruto & Co Vs Obito (unmasked) 
Knowledge: full. 
Distance: 50m.
Mindset: IC
conditions: 
1- Tobirama can get 2 ET.
2- Minato can summon Pa/Ma for SM if he wants.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Dec 29, 2014)

Tobirama's Edo Tensei is inferred to be even weaker than P1 Orochimaru's, so it's doing nothing other than being a medium for GKF - which Minato can casually evade in Bijuu Mode - and he can overwhelm Tobirama with Renzoku Bijuudama in the meantime. 

BM Minato (Edo) is on another level. KCM Minato (Edo) defeats him with around mid-high difficulty.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

- Why would Minato avoid that though when he can use contract seal to free them?
- Honestly, I see base Minato defeating him low difficult in the same fashion he did to A and Obito.

A has superior shunshin to Minato, and Obito has superior S/T jutsu. Tobirama is inferior in both, so
he will get defeated faster/easier than both. But, yeah, whatever as of now. 

Though I don't see how KCM Minato will have "mid difficult" when he is using half of Kurama's power "9tails"
and Tobirama clearly was outclassed by Kin who, in the best case scenario, uses 6 tails at most. Oh well...


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## ARGUS (Dec 29, 2014)

Anyone with a brain can accept the fact that BM minato is far far above tobirama 
And hussain you have got to stop with the constant spite threads


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

You would be surprised my dear. 



> Depending on circumstance: Tobirama+Edo Tensei > BM Minato



I was wondering about that. Who knows what people may say. 
for once I am surprised you did not say Tobirama's reflexes > BM  Minato, and therefore everything else does
not matter to be honest. lol


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 29, 2014)

Tobirama gets annihilated.


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## Complete_Ownage (Dec 29, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Anyone with a brain can accept the fact that BM minato is far far above tobirama
> And hussain you have got to stop with the constant spite threads



This and This


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

Hussain, how many spite threads will you create because of your hate for Tobirama? I think the Banhammer should hit you so hard you wont wank and create spite threads ever again. But its up to moderators.

Its a spite thread. Tobirama has better reflexes and combat speed, but he cant do anything to BM Minato and doesnt have enough chakra to beat him.


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## Sablés (Dec 29, 2014)

The asshurt is real.



> Depending on *circumstance*



God only knows how you could misinterpret this.


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## Patrick (Dec 29, 2014)

Base Minato and Tobirama should be more or less equal with Minato edging it out slightly in my eyes. 

BM Minato is quite a bit ahead of Tobirama.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Hussain, how many spite threads will you create because of your hate for Tobirama? I think the Banhammer should hit you so hard you wont wank and create spite threads ever again. But its up to moderators.
> 
> Its a spite thread. Tobirama has better reflexes and combat speed, but he cant do anything to BM Minato and doesnt have enough chakra to beat him.



- I honestly was planning to create a lot of threads, but most are repetitive, so it's boring. Though It's not like if there is much left about the story anyway. O_O

- oh, okay.  



Liquid said:


> God only knows how you could misinterpret this.



He had his ET here though.  
What is the circumstance in your opinion? I can edit the OP. 
Because I am honestly curious about what they may be...


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - I honestly was planning to create a lot of threads, but most are repetitive, so it's boring. Though It's not like if there is much left about the story anyway. O_O
> 
> - oh, okay.



If i were an admin, i would have banned you at least for a weak or so. And would have deleted all spite threads in this forum.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

OK, Good to know. Now you can post on topic, or leave.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

Hussain said:


> OK, Good to know. Now you can post on topic, or leave.



I wont, i already made a post on topic. But i wanna ask you a quastion - why you created several threads were the winner is obvious?


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

I see a lot of things as obvious, other people do not see them as such. Those threads is for others. 
Example, everyone and their mothers know that Shunshin and FTG is for speed, and even the Manga stated so
several times. However, YOU make them different than what the Ninja use in battles.  

For example, I see fighting thousands/hundred of people and win indicates strength. Other people find that is exactly the same
as fighting bunch of people and lose, and there is no different at all. Or, I see fighting the strongest 2 in a village, and giving them the impression
that you can't be surpassed is more impressive than fighting weaker 2 with help and getting defeated, and they see you lightly like "dead-ass". 
However, other people believe it's the exact same thing, and there is no different at all. 

So, yeah, what you see as obvious, it does not mean that people see the same thing. 

and so on and so froth.


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## ARGUS (Dec 29, 2014)

Hussain said:


> You would be surprised my dear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope 
BM Minatos reflexes and reactions >> Tobiramas 

Reflexes and striking speed are the main factors for S/T users since that's what determines on who lands the attacks. Not faster foot speed 

Not to mention that reflexes would only matter if tobirama could even scratch the kurama avatar. Which he obviously can't. Meaning that he dies


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

> Example, everyone and their mothers know that Shunshin and FTG is for speed, and even the Manga stated so several times.



Realy? I wanna see a proof. 



> For example, I see fighting thousands/hundred of people and win indicates strength. Other people find that is exactly the same
> as fighting bunch of people and lose, and there is no different at all. Or, I see fighting the strongest 2 in a village, and giving them the impression
> that you can't be surpassed is more impressive than fighting weaker 2 with help and getting defeated, and they see you lightly like "dead-ass".
> However, other people believe it's the exact same thing, and there is no different at all.



Thousands/hundredes cannon fodders? Strength? Dont make me laugh. 

We dont know the details of how he lost. 

And the strongest 2? Third Raikage cries. 

And impression proves nothing at all, dude. Its all about feats. The *feats* are the main things to decide who is stronger. The *feats* are the rulers of threads. And the only things that can surpass feats are *databook statements*. Too bad you dont have neither of those.

And i see how Edo Tobirama is fast enough to tag Juubito and *BM* Edo Minato isnt. 


And i see several spite threads you made. And i hope you'll stop.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

> BM Minatos reflexes and reactions >> Tobiramas



Nope. Tobirama's reflexes and reactions >>> BM Minatos.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

> =StarWanderer;52565480]Realy? I wanna see a proof.


Go read the manga then. I can't even put links or pics at this point. lol



> Thousands/hundredes cannon fodders? Strength? Dont make me laugh.


laugh if you want. I am not going to stop you. 


> We dont know the details of how he lost.
> 
> And the strongest 2? Third Raikage cries.


Go and reread the chapter 540-544. It's stated they are the strongest Tag-Team.  



> And impression proves nothing at all, dude. Its all about feats. The *feats* are the main things to decide who is stronger. The *feats* are the rulers of threads. And the only things that can surpass feats are *databook statements*. Too bad you dont have neither of those.


It's his feat that he ended the 3rd War and soloed both A & B. 



> And i see several spite threads you made. And i hope you'll stop.



You don't have to participate in them though.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

I wonder if Tobirama can fight while controlling the ET at the same time.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

> Go read the manga then. I can't even put links or pics at this point. lol



Read it. A lot. Never saw something like that. You lie.



> Go and reread the chapter 540-544. It's stated they are the strongest Tag-Team.



Maybe their team was strongest among teams, but i highly doubt they could beat Third Raikage at that moment. 



> It's his feat that he ended the 3rd War and soloed both A & B.



I am tired of countering those arguements for the 100 time or so. Ei was not even close to his prime Shippuden self. Bee was not in his prime as well and he still was fast enough to react to Minato back there.

And killing many fodders proves nothing, realy. Madara colo'd 4th Division by himself. So what?

Tobirama could tag Juubito, BM Minato couldnt. BM Minato >>>>> base Minato. Tobirama >>>>>>>>> base Minato.



> You don't have to participate in them though.



Spite threads are always a garbage for forums like this though.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 29, 2014)

> I wonder if Tobirama can fight while controlling the ET at the same time.



He cant. Unless proven otherwise.


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

and I am tried of explaining those things to you over and over again, so just forgot about it. U_U


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## Ruse (Dec 29, 2014)

Minato wins...but Tobi is a better character


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## Trojan (Dec 29, 2014)

Tobi still wonders  the feeling at the moment of relieving oneself in the toilet.


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## Kyu (Dec 29, 2014)

Base Minato wins with very high difficulty.

Biju/KCM curbstomps.

Tobirama soloes. Cleaves Hashi and Hiruzen in two while he's at it.


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## Bonly (Dec 29, 2014)

​
Looks like we got a rape on our hands here, the real question is will Minato be nice and give Tobi lube or is he going in dry


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 29, 2014)

BM Minato wins with low (mid) difficulty. Even Base Minato is better than Tobirama in all facets and wins mid (low) difficulty.  

A better match up would be against nine year old Minato, who saved Kushina from the Kumo Elite Ninja Task Force responsible for infiltrating the Konoha and capturing the Kyuubi Jin. This is a far more interesting match up since Tobirama died to a similar Kumo task force.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 29, 2014)

^ Not that I want to argue, I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that BM Minato beats Tobirama easily.

 During the Juubito fight, Tobirama's feats were superior to BM Minato considering Tobirama managed to tag Juubito while BM Minato got his arm blasted off, so I always assumed BM Minato would win mid difficulty.


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 29, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Not that I want to argue, I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that BM Minato beats Tobirama easily.
> 
> *During the Juubito fight, Tobirama's feats were superior to BM Minato considering Tobirama managed to tag Juubito while BM Minato got his arm blasted off,* so I always assumed BM Minato would win mid difficulty.



Last time I checked, Incomplete Juubito one paneled Tobirama + Shodai. Complete Juubito only took Minato's arm. Lets see who wakes up the next morning. 

Additionally, Tobirama was destroyed by EMS Madara, who is far weaker than Juubito.


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## sabre320 (Dec 29, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> ^ Not that I want to argue, I'm just wondering how you came to the conclusion that BM Minato beats Tobirama easily.
> 
> During the Juubito fight, Tobirama's feats were superior to BM Minato considering Tobirama managed to tag Juubito while BM Minato got his arm blasted off, so I always assumed BM Minato would win mid difficulty.



first of all that was kcm minato....tobirama got obliterated by a mindless juubito in exchange for a tag while kcm minato lost his arm to juubito in control now try to contemplate the fact that jinchurikis with control are vastly superior mindless v2 to kcm to bm all same biju...big difference no...bm minato can literally launch 4 bijudama in tobiramas general direction and hes gone no space time barrier and he can only teleport one...he was getting  trolled by sm madara even though he attacked from behind with a surprise ftg attack ignoring dojutsu precog...same madara was getting edged in cqc by an inexperienced ems sasuke he was forced to block the strike withhis arm..


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 29, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> first of all that was kcm minato....tobirama got obliterated by a mindless juubito in exchange for a tag while kcm minato lost his arm to juubito in control now try to contemplate the fact that jinchurikis with control are vastly superior mindless v2 to kcm to bm all same biju...big difference no...bm minato can literally launch 4 bijudama in tobiramas general direction and hes gone no space time barrier and he can only teleport one...he was getting  trolled by sm madara even though he attacked from behind with a surprise ftg attack ignoring dojutsu precog...same madara was getting edged in cqc by an inexperienced ems sasuke he was forced to block the strike withhis arm..




Yeah he kinda did

 It was BM Minato.

 Also, that still doesn't excuse the fact that Tobirama literally tagged Juubito twice. One that allowed Sasuke and Naruto to land a Rasenshuriken + Amaterasu combo and the other to allow SM Naruto to Rasengan Juubito.

 This is true though, totally forgot to take in account BM Minato's avatar and the fact that he could even launch a Bijuudama.

 Then again, I need to reread the chapters after the Juubito fight as my mind is a little fuzzy, so I'll get back to you on that.


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## sabre320 (Dec 29, 2014)

NarutoX28 said:


> Link removed
> 
> It was BM Minato.
> 
> ...



thats kcm minato..this is bm minato where his eyes turn into fox pupils showing kurama giving him additional power..
Link removed
and so u are conveniently going to ignore the difference between a jinchuriki in control and one not...well i guess v2 crazy naruto is as good as bm seems legit..i mean same biju right
he used the same tag to teleport to twice...


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## Hazuki (Dec 29, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Why would Minato avoid that though when he can use contract seal to free them?



witch proof do you have that minato can use contract seal on edo tensei ?
it would work on madara/obito using genjutsu to forced kyubi by controliing him

but i seriously don't think at all that a simple contract seal would work on edo tensei if only the best genjutsu ever was need to broke it ( koto)





> A has superior shunshin to Minato, and Obito has superior S/T jutsu. Tobirama is inferior in both, so
> he will get defeated faster/easier than both. But, yeah, whatever as of now.



so what , don't forget that tobirama wasn't as strong as when he was alive 

madara himself admit that edo tensei didn't put the brother senju as their prime level 




> [and Tobirama clearly was outclassed by Kin who, in the best case scenario, uses 6 tails at most. Oh well...



you know that tobirama fough alone an army of 20 S class ninja (kin and his brother include) and yet you considere that tobirama was outclassed by kin alone ?

also you completely forgot that it was an ambush fight , not really a fair fight 

you really need to read the manga bro 

i don't think that tobirama is stronger than Bm minato , but kishi gave a super boost for minato edo while he didn't even gave his full power for tobirama , but still both of them shown a very good team ninja and great abilities 

what i think is edo  Bm minato > tobirama>> edo tobirama> minato


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## sabre320 (Dec 29, 2014)

Hazuki said:


> witch proof do you have that minato can use contract seal on edo tensei ?
> it would work on madara/obito using genjutsu to forced kyubi by controliing him
> 
> but i seriously don't think at all that a simple contract seal would work on edo tensei if only the best genjutsu ever was need to broke it ( koto)
> ...



interesting so only tobirama is affected by the edo tensei shouldnt all edo tensei be brought back not at full strength what makes tobirama special?

tobirama fough alone an army of 20 S class ninjack what makes you say they were sclass they were an elite team..kin and gin i know are strong..but the elite team..minato when 9 years old killed an kumo elite team meant to capture kushina .....


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## Trojan (Dec 30, 2014)

> =Hazuki;52570677]witch proof do you have that minato can use contract seal on edo tensei ?
> it would work on madara/obito using genjutsu to forced kyubi by controliing him


Because it seals the contract, and the ET has a contract as well. That's what madara stated when he freed himself. 


> but i seriously don't think at all that a simple contract seal would work on edo tensei if only the best genjutsu ever was need to broke it ( koto)


As I said, it as a seal to break the contract which the ET has. Also, Sealing jutsus > ET. Ever since the first introduce of ET it was the sealing jutsus which always beats it. 



> so what , don't forget that tobirama wasn't as strong as when he was alive
> 
> madara himself admit that edo tensei didn't put the brother senju as their prime level



Tobirama was almost at full power. The possibly 5% he lost is not going to change his level some tiers.  



> you know that tobirama fough alone an army of 20 S class ninja (kin and his brother include) and yet you considere that tobirama was outclassed by kin alone ?


again people, there were 2 battles. The first battle was 2 on 2. Kin and Gin Vs Tobirama and A.
As a matter of fact, it's not me who consider Kin defeated him, it IS stated in the manga that Kin defeated him. 

here




> also you completely forgot that it was an ambush fight , not really a fair fight
> you really need to read the manga bro


Again, there are 2 fights. The second one was not an ambush. 



> i don't think that tobirama is stronger than Bm minato , but kishi gave a super boost for minato edo while he didn't even gave his full power for tobirama , but still both of them shown a very good team ninja and great abilities


And Minato's feats outclassed Tobirama een in base. 



> what i think is edo  Bm minato > tobirama>> edo tobirama> minato[


That's cool, but what Tobirama think is Minato >>> him. And so what the manga think as well.
Tobirama is clearly not in the same level as Minato. He even admitted his inferiority to him.  

you have your own opinion, but manga >>>> yours.


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## ShadowReaper (Dec 30, 2014)

Minato wins this with mid-high level of difficulty, depending on whether he enter full Bijuu mode or not.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

> Even Base Minato is better than Tobirama in all facets and wins mid (low) difficulty.



LOL no. Tobirama is better than Minato in all aspects except Shunshin and Hiraishin.


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## Trojan (Dec 30, 2014)

And what does Tobirama have other than shunshin and Hiraishin? :rofl


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

Hussain said:


> And what does Tobirama have other than shunshin and Hiraishin? :rofl



Superior reflexes, combat speed, experience, Suiton and lots of explosive tags. All thos things will help him defeat base Minato. 

Tobirama cant beat BM Minato, but he is clearly superior to base Minato.


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## Hazuki (Dec 30, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Because it seals the contract, and the ET has a contract as well. That's what madara stated when he freed himself.



did you read the chapter ? madara freed himself only because kabuto was forced to cancel edo tensei 

edo tensei bodied have a few time after the edo tensei is cancel

madara use a realease jutsu only because he had  few time of free move 

even Dan use his ghost mod during this time

however none of edo tensei would have use anything if kabuto was always controling them 

so again you don't have proove that a simple seal contract would work on edo tensei 

kabuto himself said to obito , that the only way to stop edo tensei is to use a genjutsu on the user and force him to cancel 

*you really think that someone like obito or kabuto aren't aware about a contract seal ??

come on if that would work , kabuto or obito would have talk about that *




> Tobirama was almost at full power. The possibly 5% he lost is not going to change his level some tiers.



said that to madara , who admit that the senju bro weren't at their full power 

without much issue

even madara said that there is a big difference of power betwen then now , that's mean before they weren't that far 

when i see madara reaction , i think it's much much more than 5% ..




> again people, there were 2 battles. The first battle was 2 on 2. Kin and Gin Vs Tobirama and A.
> As a matter of fact, it's not me who consider Kin defeated him, it IS stated in the manga that Kin defeated him.
> 
> here
> ...



tobirama and the raikage were ambushed by kin and we still don't know what's happened , kin is the kind of guy who fight with an army 

tobirama was ambushed 2 times

the first when he was with raikage against kin , the second  when he was with his team sarutobi against the kin forces army



> That's cool, but what Tobirama think is Minato >>> him. And so what the manga think as well.
> Tobirama is clearly not in the same level as Minato. He even admitted his inferiority to him.



he admitted that his space time jutsu is better  , that's all
he never considere inferior to him even when minato use kyubi mode

and if you read the manga , he saved minato and the rest quite often , against obito juubi , did a great team work with minato kyubi 
seemingly you don't read the same manga as me if you considere tobirama not the same level as minato 

his feat were as  impressive than minato km/bm against obito juubi , 

-team work with minato
-team work with naruto sm 
-save their life severales times

also he was more tactical than minato , he never was attack directly (even the first time when obito attack him and his brother bushin  , he did it on purpose to use his suicide move)





> you have your own opinion, but manga >>>> yours.



your interpretention isn't from the manga , if you think that madara break edo tensei on his own , or that tobirama was defeat  in a fair fight ...



> And Minato's feats outclassed Tobirama een in base.



that's your opinion , not my mine at all


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## Trojan (Dec 30, 2014)

> =Hazuki;52573358]did you read the chapter ? madara freed himself only because kabuto was forced to cancel edo tensei
> 
> edo tensei bodied have a few time after the edo tensei is cancel
> 
> ...


Madara:


Contract seal:


It's not about the ET here if they get a moment to do so or not. Because Minato is the one who's doing it. 


> said that to madara , who admit that the senju bro weren't at their full power
> Link removed
> even madara said that there is a big difference of power between then now , that's mean before they weren't that far


That's cool, and all. Except they are at almost full power. 


Yes, there is between them compare to him. As you can see he fodderstompped them easily now since he's much stronger with the Rinnegan and SM and Hashirama's cells than he was before.


> when i see madara reaction , i think it's much much more than 5% ..


Again, Madara's power is the one that became much greater now. Also, he was talking about their power together. Tobirama's power alone is below Kin/Gin's power. 



> tobirama and the raikage were ambushed by kin and we still don't know what's happened , kin is the kind of guy who fight with an army


Minato fought an army and defeated them in a blink of an eye. 

*Spoiler*: __ 










> tobirama was ambushed 2 times



No he was not. As a matter of fact THEY were trying to ambush Kin and the others the second time
as his student suggested. 

but, as stated, even if they ambushed them, they were still outclassed. 


> the first when he was with raikage against kin , the second  when he was with his team sarutobi against the kin forces army


Indeed, and in the second one he was not ambushed. He was fully aware of them tracking his team. 



> he admitted that his space time jutsu is better  , that's all


Too bad, Tobirama does not have anything better than the S/T jutsus. Even madara stated that he was proud of his speed. Minato on the other hand has the Uzumaki's sealing jutsu in addition to the S/T jutsus. One of the most powerful jutsus, and that everyone was fearing them. 

*Spoiler*: __ 








That in addition to SM, and the other stuff. 



> your interpretention isn't from the manga , if you think that madara break edo tensei on his own , or that tobirama was defeat  in a fair fight ...


- oh yes it is. 
and madara breaking the ET has nothing to do with my point. I am talking about Minato's seal. 



> and if you read the manga , he saved minato and the rest quite often , against obito juubi , did a great team work with minato kyubi
> seemingly you don't read the same manga as me if you considere tobirama not the same level as minato


- Minato was going to teleport it himself, he did not need Tobirama.
- Also, Minato saved his ass as well from Obito's 4 TBBs. 
- Yup, the manga I read Minato was soloing armies by himself, whether they are 50, or a 1000...etc
Tobirama lost to 20 fodders. 

Also, for the saving point. I suppose you think Sakura is stronger than Naruto or in his level because she saved his life as well, right? 



> his feat were as impressive than minato km/bm against obito juubi ,



No they were not. Minato saved the world twice. What of Tobirama's feats that are comparable to saving the world twice?




> also he was more tactical than minato , he never was attack directly (even the first time when obito attack him and his brother bushin , he did it on purpose to use his suicide move)


So Minato also was attacked on purpose. 
Not to mention Minato's plan weakened Madara severely when he took away almost all of his Gedu-damas and made him defenceless for Gai to attack him. 



> that's your opinion , not my mine at all


I did not say it's yours.


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 30, 2014)

Oh wow, I completely forgot that Shikimaru stated that Kin soloed Tobirama. Since that is the Viz translation, it is now 100% confirmed by Kishimoto that Kin > Tobirama. With that manga canon in mind now, I'd have to rank Minato > Darui > Kin > Post 1st ambush Tobirama.

Thanks for the confirmation, Kishimoto!


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

> Minato fought an army and defeated them in a blink of an eye.



In a blink of an aye? Proof.

And defeating canon fodders isnt a big deal. Madara fought 4th division alone. And Third Raikage fought 10000 shinobi alone.



> Oh wow, I completely forgot that Shikimaru stated that Kin soloed Tobirama. Since that is the Viz translation, it is now 100% confirmed by Kishimoto that Kin > Tobirama. With that manga canon in mind now, I'd have to rank Minato > Darui > Kin > Post 1st ambush Tobirama.
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation, Kishimoto!



1. Shikamaru's statement proves nothing, since its a characters statement.
2. Even if he did, we still dont know the  details of that fight.
3. Tobirama put a FTG formula on Juubito, while BM Minato did nothing at all and would have been destroyed if not for Tobirama, who saved him.

Tobirama >>>>> base Minato, because of Manga feats.

Thanks for the confirmation, Kishimoto!


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

> That's cool, and all. Except they are at almost full power.
> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> Yes, there is between them compare to him. As you can see he fodderstompped them easily now since he's much stronger with the Rinnegan and SM and Hashirama's cells than he was before.



*CLOSE*. But how much close? 



> Again, Madara's power is the one that became much greater now. Also, he was talking about their power together. Tobirama's power alone is below Kin/Gin's power.



Madara's physical traits were the same as before.The only things he got were Rinnegan and Mokuton + greater stamina thanks to Hashirama's DNA.

Kabuto never improved his physical traits and didnt know anything about Madara's prime.



> No they were not. Minato saved the world twice. What of Tobirama's feats that are comparable to saving the world twice?



Has nothing to do with their fight at all.

But i admit BM Minato's superiority.


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## Trojan (Dec 30, 2014)

> =StarWanderer;52573855]In a blink of an aye? Proof.






> And defeating canon fodders isnt a big deal. Madara fought 4th division alone. And Third Raikage fought 10000 shinobi alone.


It's not a big deal for top tier. However, it is a big deal to people of Tobirama's level that can't deal with 20. 



> 1. Shikamaru's statement proves nothing, since its a characters statement.
> 2. Even if he did, we still dont know the  details of that fight.
> 3. Tobirama put a FTG formula on Juubito, while BM Minato did nothing at all and would have been destroyed if not for Tobirama, who saved him.



:rofl
you can tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.  




> Tobirama >>>>> base Minato, because of Manga feats.



By manga feats tobirama is not even in the same level as Darui.  


> =StarWanderer;52573886]*CLOSE*. But how much close?


probably nothing short of 10-5% 



> Madara's physical traits were the same as before.The only things he got were Rinnegan and Mokuton + greater stamina thanks to Hashirama's DNA.


Not sure how did you know that, but when he fodderstompped Tobirama he had SM as well. 


> Kabuto never improved his physical traits and didnt know anything about Madara's prime.


Hashirama's cells makes him more powerful than he was.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

Hussain said:


> It's not a big deal for top tier. However, it is a big deal to people of Tobirama's level that can't deal with 20.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. And nothing about him defeating a whole army in a blink of an aye. He can kill many shinobi in a blink of an aye, but the whole army?

*Proof*.

2. And we dont know any details about that. 

3. You can wank as much as you want, you still cant counter that feat.

4. By manga feats he is well above base Minato. 

5. I think probably 20%.

6. Yeah, i know. I mean, Madara's *own* physical traits werent improved when Kabuto revived him through Edo Rensei.

7. I''ll wait for you to bring a proof those cells increase speed and reflexes. And, in case with Madara, physical strength (he had those cells in his chest, not in his arms and legs).


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## Trojan (Dec 30, 2014)

you repeating the same things over, and over, and over again.  
you can reread my posts to you already.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

Hussain said:


> you repeating the same things over, and over, and over again.
> you can reread my posts to you already.



Because you still cant counter my arguements. Thats why i repeat them over and over again.


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## Kyu (Dec 30, 2014)

Regarding Minato(pre-death) and Tobirama. They're teleporting speedsters that excel in different areas of combat. They're both quite capable of reacting to opponents way above their general level.

Tobirama is a methodical shinobi who's proficiency in suiton ninjutsu allows him to cut down an unsuspecting foe down in a heartbeat without moving an inch. Furthermore, he can create thousands upon thousands of explosions by using ninja he resurrects through his infamous Kinjutsu - _Edo Tensei_.

Mnato is a cunning man who can seal and neutralize an enemy through one of his many Fūinjutsu - _Shishō Fūin_ and negate long-ranged jutsu via _Hiraishin: Dōrai_. He also can call on Boss Summons from Mt. Myoboku for assistance.

That being said: Nearly all of Tobirama's offense is rendered ineffective against a shinobi of Minato's caliber; especially when said man has a jutsu that is leaps and bounds above Tobirama's version - a justu their entire style of fighting revolves around. _Gojō Kibaku Fuda_ is Nidaime's best option at killing Yondaime however, there isn't a lot halting Minato from keeping Tobirama from summoning Edo Tensei to act as a medium or simply teleporting out of the blast radius.

All in all, Minato would likely win(high-difficulty) if a straight up fight were to ever occur between the two.

To say one is vastly stronger than the other without factoring in Senjutsu or Kyuubi enhancements is rather silly, imo.


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## trance (Dec 30, 2014)

Base Minato would be a great fight for Tobirama. BM Minato should, logically, be vastly superior.


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## Elite Uchiha (Dec 30, 2014)

Minato soloed an army of ninja in an instant. Tobirama was soloed by Kin, who is weaker than Darui and probably the Elite Ninja Task Force that Minato soloed in his youth.

The above statement alone tells the story


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## Kyu (Dec 30, 2014)

Willing to bet Third Raikage was in the squad that bent Tobirama over.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 30, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> thats kcm minato..this is bm minato where his eyes turn into fox pupils showing kurama giving him additional power..
> one needs an enormous amounts of chakra
> and so u are conveniently going to ignore the difference between a jinchuriki in control and one not...well i guess v2 crazy naruto is as good as bm seems legit..i mean same biju right
> he used the same tag to teleport to twice...



 Looking back, I can see why you'd say that is KCM Minato.

 I always believed this was KCM Minato.

{IMG] http://i40.tinypic.com/f585yw.jpg[/IMG]

 But after looking back, I think this could be a debatable topic. After all, Minato's chakra arms were similar to KCM Naruto's which could imply that that was KCM Minato, but again, I would like more input on this b/c you really got me thinking there.

 As for that part, I didn't think it was relevant. Tobirama sacrificed himself on purpose just to set off the explosive tags technique. That was pretty much stated.

 And fair enough, he only tagged him once, but better than what KCM/BM Minato had done.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 30, 2014)

> Minato soloed an army of ninja in an instant. Tobirama was soloed by Kin, who is weaker than Darui and probably the Elite Ninja Task Force that Minato soloed in his youth.
> 
> The above statement alone tells the story



1. How big was that army? If it was an army at all.
2. If it was a realy big army, at least 1000, i wanna see a proof he defeated that army in an instant.
3. We still dont know any details about that fight.


I realy dont understand you, people. How can you bring that Kin/Gin shinobi thing without *KNOWING ANY DETAILS* about that? How did they beat Tobirama? Maybe they used some artifact, maybe they used some trick.


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## UchihaX28 (Dec 31, 2014)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Minato soloed an army of ninja in an instant. Tobirama was soloed by Kin, who is weaker than Darui and probably the Elite Ninja Task Force that Minato soloed in his youth.
> 
> The above statement alone tells the story



 Good thing Tobirama doesn't have hiraishin and can't just suiton Darui's head off.

 Honestly, taking Shikamaru's statement as truth is like believing Hiruzen is the strongest hokage just b/c it was sated to be true in Part 1. At least when Hashirama was stated to be the strongest ninja in all of history alongside Madara, it was proven to be true, but going by feats alone completely contradicts the fact that Tobirama is vastly inferior to Darui and Kin. It makes absolutely no sense at all. Complete crap.The 4 kages were considered to be the strongest ninjas in history. You really going to expect a jonin-level ninja like Darui to be stronger than one of the strongest Kages out there? That's laughable. Going by feats, Tobirama contributed a lot against Juubito. Darui? He didn't do anything, he was completely helpless without his little V1 Cloak protecting him. 

 Moral of the story folks is Tobirama >>>>>>> V1 Darui >>>>>>>>>>> Kin. That's what's implied going by feats and feats >>>>> statements.


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## Sorin (Dec 31, 2014)

Base Minato vs Tobirama is a good fight.

BM Minato vs Tobirama is a rape.


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## Trojan (Dec 31, 2014)

Kyu said:


> Willing to bet Third Raikage was in the squad that bent Tobirama over.



That just plain silly, Kyu. 
why on earth would someone like the 3rd Raikage side with criminals?


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## Kyu (Dec 31, 2014)

The Kinkaku Force was a special squad sent from Kumo, wasn't it?


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## Trojan (Dec 31, 2014)

Why on earth would Kumo send them to attack their own Raikage? 
(the first battle)


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## Kyu (Dec 31, 2014)

You're mixing the two incidents up.

Kin/Gin(just the two of them) attacked Kumo & Konoha's nidaime and left at least one them on the verge of death during a summit of sorts.

The Kinkaku force(which may or may not have been led by the Kin/Gin brothers) is what ultimately did Tobirama in some time afterward.

Although, you're right that it wouldn't make sense for 3rd Raikage to be a member of the KF if said unit actually comprised of Kinkaku &/or his brother - notorious criminals.

A little clarification would be nice.


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## Trojan (Dec 31, 2014)

I know. What I meant is that they were criminals since the first attack. It wouldn't make sence that they attacked
them at first (and therefore against the village), just for them later on to go with the A the 3rd to attack Tobirama, who was trying to make peace with them! 

the 3rd does not seem to be a jerk to me...


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## Atlantic Storm (Dec 31, 2014)

I swear I dealt with this thread before, but I guess I missed it.

Locking because this is obviously unbalanced in Minato's favour and also probably a spite thread.


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