# Itachi vs Killer Bee



## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 8, 2014)

Restrictions: None
Knowledge: None
Conditions: Itachi is healthy and good eyesight.
Distance: 20 meters
Mindset: IC

Who wins?


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

Killer-B has more win conditions. 

Itachi can win w/ 
- Tsukuyomi
- Totsuka Sword
- Multiple Amaterasu

Killer B could win w/ 
- Catching Itachi off guard after he breaks his Genjutsu
- Samehada Chakra Absorbing him
- Kwarimi Ambush
- TBB/Continuos TBB
- Outlasting

So while both can win, I find Killer-B's victory more likely.


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Killer-B has more win conditions.
> - Catching Itachi off guard after he breaks his Genjutsu


Except Itachi did catch him in Genjutsu in the manga when *they did fight and this never occurred. *Itachi isn't like Sasuke to let his guard down.



> - Samehada Chakra Absorbing him


Itachi *knows * about Samehada since he worked with Kisame for 10 years. There is no catching off guard here. Itachi has jutsus he can finish Bee at a range. Tsukuyomi, 2 Amaterasu or Totsuka.



> - Kwarimi Ambush


Nah. Itachi would notice that. Sasuke would have noticed it if it wasn't because he was the one who did it to save Karin. Hachibi cutting his own tentacle is waaaay too notizable for Itachi, arguably the smartest shinobi ever in the manga to fall for that. You yourself admitted that Itachi and Kakashi are probably the two strongest smarters characters of the manga.



> - TBB/Continuos TBB


The moment the Hachibi comes into play Amaterasu is gonna come into play. Why? Cause Itachi will prefer using Amaterasu to waste some chakra and eyesight in order to *not risk dying.*

However, Suigetsu survived a Bijuu Bomb, so I'm sure V4 with Yata could survive it.



> - Outlasting


Bee doesn't make it that long. Tsukuyomi, 2 Amaterasu, Totsuka, GG.


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## Dr. White (Sep 8, 2014)

Bee IC is a mixed bag. You have scenarios like vs Minato and the Juubi where he can be quick thinking and collected. Then you have the Sasuke fight where he was pretty wreckless despite facing multiple people. Bee can't afford to be wreckless here, itachi has a plethora of ways to mess him over, and completely just outsmart him. At close range Bee has an edge, but Itachi's genjutsu + clone game, Susano, and the option of Ama really hurt his chances of putting Itachi down, especially since Bee Ic no knowledge not only made eye contact with Itachi but was unable to hit him with Samehada or his seven sword dance.

At range Itachi has the distinct advantage, and Susano is something Bee just can't bypass. His Bjuu form is literally his only option at fighting Susano on equal terms, Itachi having the Sacred Weapons and Amaterasu IMO quell any atempts Bee will have at sending Bjuudama's.

Itachi wins Mid - high diff, depending on what puts Bee down.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

@KyuubiYondaime

I'm not going to bother discussing Itachi w/ you, because I don't think anything will come off it.


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> @KyuubiYondaime
> 
> I'm not going to bother discussing Itachi w/ you, because I don't think anything will come off it.



Me neither with you. You say how Itachi can win with Tsukuyomi, which is basically the* first * MS technique Itachi is more likely to use, and despite that, you say Bee is more likely to win?

Come on.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

KyuubiYondaime said:


> Me neither with you.


Yet writes a long response and continues to try to bait


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 8, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Yet writes a long response and continues to try to bait



If you and I fought and you had a way to beat me with me just looking at your eyes, I admit you'd win. Unless I had a way to block my eyesight and still beat you effectively, which I probably wouldn't have. Just use logic bro. Besides, you admitted Bee would fall victim of Tsukuyomi.


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## Turrin (Sep 8, 2014)

KyuubiYondaime said:


> If you and I fought and you had a way to beat me with me just looking at your eyes, I admit you'd win. Unless I had a way to block my eyesight and still beat you effectively, which I probably wouldn't have. Just use logic bro. Besides, you admitted Bee would fall victim of Tsukuyomi.


If you and a ostrich fought, and said ostrich could use taijutsu, i'd admit the ostrich beats you.


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> If you and a ostrich fought, and said ostrich could use taijutsu, i'd admit the ostrich beats you.



You're just changing the subject since you know you were lying.


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## Jagger (Sep 9, 2014)

KyuubiYondaime said:


> Me neither with you. You say how Itachi can win with Tsukuyomi, which is basically the* first * MS technique Itachi is more likely to use, and despite that, you say Bee is more likely to win?
> 
> Come on.


That sounds unlikely. Itachi is not the kind of person to start with a heavy genjutsu knowing Bee can eventually break it thanks to the Bijuu inside of him, not to mention that using several MS techniques from the start is not highly recommended.


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## Dr. White (Sep 9, 2014)

bee can't break Tsuku this is cannon.


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 9, 2014)

Naruto suggested that Killer Bee was toast once Itachi would use Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu.


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## Rocky (Sep 9, 2014)

The Hachibi isn't a traditional partner. The Hachibi and B share senses and communicate telepathically, so there isn't any confirmation that time would not slow for Gyuki too (giving him an opportunity to cancel the illusion).


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## Dr. White (Sep 9, 2014)

Not to mentio  Tsukuyomi is instant and partner method won't work via Itachi victim Kakashi's own words. Seeing as 3 tomoe base sharingan held him for multiple panels it's safe to assume Bee gets raped by Tsuku.


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## crisler (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm pretty sure Tsukuyomi is still effective even against perject jins. Even as a perfect jin, 3rd mizukage was controlled by the sharingan. If perfect jin is a counter then the 3rd mizukage won't have been under control, regardless of what genjutus obito used to take control of him. Likewise, a genjutsu powerful enough to be just as effective, and tsukuyomi is definitely one of them.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 9, 2014)

Itachi one shots with Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu or Totsuka.

Itachi wins with low - mid dif.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Killer-B has more win conditions.
> 
> Itachi can win w/
> - Tsukuyomi
> ...



Having more win conditions doesn't mean they are more likely; Itachi could only have one condition and it might be a hundred times more likely to happen than anything B's got.

Your list isn't even comprehensive, since there's plenty more ways these two could conceivably kill each other, if you want to get down to all the different possibilities. Kawarimi or Bunshin ambush and "catching off-guard" are also things that should be on Itachi's list, as they are totally within his ability to do as well. And whether or not Bijuudama can kill Itachi is easily debatable; quickfire/continuous mini-Bijuudama shouldn't even be considered.

Having said that, you're wrong; Itachi beats B 99% of the time, and very comfortably. B doesn't really have the intelligence or the focus to put up much of a fight, and Itachi's not the type to let an opportunity slip past. Kisame one-shotted B, and Itachi himself likely would have done the same if Naruto hadn't intervened.


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## Rocky (Sep 9, 2014)

What is this with B having limited intelligence? He's actually shown to be clever, not idiotic like Naruto. 

He's just chill and funny. Don't mistake that for slow. 

Also, Kisame only beat B because B held back. Had he transformed into the Hachibi, he would have picked Kisame up and split him in half.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 9, 2014)

Rocky said:


> What is this with B having limited intelligence? He's actually shown to be clever, not idiotic like Naruto.
> 
> He's just chill and funny. Don't mistake that for slow.
> 
> Also, Kisame only beat B because B held back. Had he transformed into the Hachibi, he would have picked Kisame up and split him in half.



B is more experinced than Naruto, I think thats what sets them apart mainly, not necessarily intelligence.

I think the gap in Itachi & B's intelligence can clearly be observed in how they took the initiative against Nagato. B failed and got almost killed like a noob, and Itachi murked Nagato and saved Naruto & B @ the same time.


As for the match up, B has 0 knowledge. So yes, any of the MS jutsu makes short work of him.


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## Bloo (Sep 9, 2014)

> Knowledge: None


Itachi wins. 

Itachi is one of the worst characters to go up against with no knowledge. His Mangekyou techniques make him a threat to almost anyone, especially if you have no knowledge about it. With this in mind, it's very likely that Bee will be hit with genjutsu and/or Tsukuyomi early on, due to having no knowledge. I don't want to hear about the idea of "perfect jinchuuruki are immune to genjutsu." When Itachi and Bee fought in the manga, Itachi had Bee under genjutsu for quite a few panels before Bee realized it and told Gyūki to release him. Under Tsukuyomi, with it lasting a second, I don't see Gyūki being able to release Bee. 

Beyond that, anything Bee has, Itachi can handle and overpower him in. If Bee releases Gyūki, Itachi uses Amaterasu and takes care of that. Or, better yet, activates Susano'o and seals him.

I just don't see what Bee can do here, especially with the knowledge restriction. Bee isn't that intelligent anyway. When he fought Nagato, he went straight into that battle, even without knowledge, and if it weren't for Itachi he would have died. Bee is reckless, and that is a dangerous trait against Itachi.


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## SSMG (Sep 9, 2014)

Bee wins. hes quick enough to out race a juubidama in his bm so nothing itachi has will hit him if he doesnt want to be hit. Kb also reacted to minatos teleportation.....and one bd from kb would wreck itachi and his susannobut even if bd dont bust his susanno.. kb can keep him turtling up in susanno and win a battle of attrition like that. Also raiton infused seven swords style would also beat itachi if it got to cqc. 

How does itachi win? sot is too slow from somone who can outrun juubidamas and react to hiriashin... tsyui needs to be real close to use which gives bee alot of options to use while itachi builds the chakra up for it.. and ammy was dodged by raikage and bee has better speed feats than him so yeah.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 9, 2014)

I think a healthy Itachi and Bee are in the same tier , and are very close in power  , Genjutsu is out of the question because of Bee's synchronization with Hachibi , which takes away a good deal of what makes Itachi a dangerous ninja , Itachi can hold his own CQC with Bee , but I give Bee the overall edge with his 7 sword stance , they are probably close in overall speed as well, this will come down to Susanoo vs Hachibidama , because Itachi has the intelligence advantage and the knowledge advantage here considering he's the one of the most knowledgable shinobi in the world and Bee has none , I give him the edge more often than not , now if Bee had knowledge I would give him the edge.


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Killer-B has more win conditions.
> 
> Itachi can win w/
> - Tsukuyomi
> ...



Killer bee is not catching itachi off guard this isn't sasuke
Is not going to get a chance for samehada absorb his chakra due to knowledge/intelligence
Or land any tail beast bombs due to Amaterasu


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 9, 2014)

B isn't that great against taka he looked fast but against other veterans he got owned. Itachi already caught him in genjutsu before so he can do it again.  Itachi could use finger genjutsu this time to knock out B out for 5-7 seconds in that time KBs head will get cut off. If B decides to go straight to V2 itachi uses V3 susanoo blocks all his moves and uses Amaterasu. If B goes tailed beast mode Amaterasu or totsuka. Also tsukiyomi is instant if B gets caught in it hachibi won't be breaking him out in time and it's GG


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## Raiken (Sep 9, 2014)

I'd say B takes this.
Healthy MS Itachi is around early EMS Sasuke level.
And EMS Sasuke is a similar level to 100% KCM Naruto.
And I'd have B > KCM Naruto.
B > MS Itachi.

The only hope Itachi has is if he manages to land Totsuka, and who's to say that is a 1 shot win? We have seen that B can seperate from the Bijuu Mode and such it all back into himself very quickly, as seen when destroying the Barrier, and duping Sasuke with Substitution; which at the same time confirms his defence against Amaterasu if he's hit by it.


Base B with some partial Transformation and Swords was > 3T Sharingan Itachi using Katons and Genjutsu.
Itachi usually tries regular Genjutsu first before resorting to Tsukuyomi, the Hachibi however clarified after failing to avoid a normal Genjutsu to not look into his eyes, so B would be wary of Genjutsu by the time Itachi knows he needs Tsukuyomi if he wants to defeat him with Genjutsu.
Itachi would likely know that and resort to Amaterasu instead, exactly how he did in the Manga fight.
This is where Itachi wins early game, or the fight drags on a lot longer. B is either hit with Amaterasu and looses or reacts and manages to avoid.
Basically if B recognises he's resorted to the Mangekyou Sharingan, he might resort to using his V1 or V2 Cloak and go for pure speed blitz against him while avoiding Amaterasu, like CS1 Sasuke attempted and failed. However B's V1 and V2 are leagues above Sasuke's CS1 state.
So that depends on if B recognizes the threat and acts accordingly before he uses Amaterasu.
I say he recognizes it and proceedes to attempt to end it quickly using V1 or V2 like against Kisame and Nagato.
Itachi reacts with Susano'o of-course, and depending on what B used, and what level of Susano'o Itachi starts off with, it either holds or doesn't.
Lets just say the both go all out, recognizing they're both a significant threat.
B goes into an 8 Tailed V2 Cloak and Itachi goes into Final Susano'o.
B's full Power V2 Lariat clashes against Itachi's Yata Mirror, who knows what damage the Mirror would take, but in all likelihood, it would protect Susano'o in the end.
B I think is capable and fast enough to dodge Itachi's Counter attack with Totsuka Sword from what we've seen of B.
And then they go from there.
This is where in my opinion. B basically gets some distance and brings out Bijuu Mode, nukes Itachi with Bijuu Bomb and wins.


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## Lord Aizen (Sep 9, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> I'd say B takes this.
> Healthy MS Itachi is around early EMS Sasuke level.
> And EMS Sasuke is a similar level to 100% KCM Naruto.
> And I'd have B > KCM Naruto.
> ...



The thing is once B makes a move attack itachi in v2 or hachibi he's getting hit with Amaterasu. Itachi waits for his opponent to make there move first then using MS precog counter attacks before they actually make a move. Therefore there will not be a single lariat against itachi. Before lariat gets to itachis susanoo B will be hit with amateur as KB moves linear and isn't that fast anyways. And hachibi form is useless against itachi no way is KB pulling off a bijuu ball or anything before itachi uses Amaterasu. No way is totsuka being dodged the blade is massive and extremely fast with itachis fighting still it's not missing


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 9, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> I'd say B takes this.
> Healthy MS Itachi is around early EMS Sasuke level.
> And EMS Sasuke is a similar level to 100% KCM Naruto.
> And I'd have B > KCM Naruto.
> B > MS Itachi.



Wow what a load of shit


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## SSMG (Sep 9, 2014)

Lord Aizen said:


> The thing is once B makes a move attack itachi in v2 or hachibi he's getting hit with Amaterasu. Itachi waits for his opponent to make there move first then using MS precog counter attacks before they actually make a move. Therefore there will not be a single lariat against itachi. Before lariat gets to itachis susanoo B will be hit with amateur as KB moves linear and isn't that fast anyways. And hachibi form is useless against itachi no way is KB pulling off a bijuu ball or anything before itachi uses Amaterasu. No way is totsuka being dodged the blade is massive and extremely fast with itachis fighting still it's not missing



Partial and full hachibi as well as base bee all have feats of atleast in eis speed tier if not faster. so no amaterasu isnt hitting him if he doesnt want it too.


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## Raiken (Sep 10, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Partial and full hachibi as well as base bee all have feats of atleast in eis speed tier if not faster. so no amaterasu isnt hitting him if he doesnt want it too.


Exactly, while B does easily have the power to obliterate Itachi with Bijuu Dama if he so wishes.


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## Icegaze (Sep 12, 2014)

Amaterasu gg
And lol Ei is much faster than killer bee
again Amaterasu GG
Hachibi mode is out of the question


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## SSMG (Sep 12, 2014)

@Icekaze. Partial killer bee reacted to minato and countered his attack on ei all before ei could react.. or well during the time raikage was reacting to minato. 

When base bee overpowered ei during their lariat clash.. bee clashed with v2 raikage in the middle ground(meaning hes about the same speed as ei)

And full hachibi reacted. to and blocked ammy.. 

theres probably more feats for bees speed but these will suffice

all of these put bee on eis level of speed. and eis level of speed can dodge ammy...


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## Dr. White (Sep 12, 2014)

SSMG said:


> . Partial killer bee reacted to minato and countered his attack on ei all before ei could react.. or well during the time raikage was reacting to minato.


That is an interception feat, which isn't the same at all. He got points for anticipating Minato's use of Hirashin and stalemated his threat.



> When base bee overpowered ei during their lariat clash.. bee clashed with v2 raikage in the middle ground(meaning hes about the same speed as ei)


This is clearly an outlier feat meant to show that Bee had surpassed the expectations Ei had for him, and highlighted his independence (as Ei was trying to control him like he did all of his life). It doesn't make sense considering Sasuke easily reacted to Cloaked Bee mid Air, yet needed Susano/kagatsuchi to have a chanced at harming Ei with his V2 cloak.



> And full hachibi reacted. to and blocked ammy..


No he didn't...He got hit in the face, cried out in pain, and tried to hunker down in the water, which he found out doesn't do shit. Bee would have gotten One shotted right there had Karin not needed saving causing Sauce to cut his tentacle.



> theres probably more feats for bees speed but these will suffice


Itachi was portrayed to be faster, and didn't have a problem dealing with people like SM Kabuto in close quarters. On top of it, Itachi's Susano guarantees he is protected at close range.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 12, 2014)

Tsukiyomi- Bee broke Itachi's genjutsu. AND Itachi fans say this proves Bee can't break it because it took mulitple panels. BUT, Bee broke it, pulled 7 swords, and got in his stance before Itachi's thrown Shuriken could hit him. And note that Bee didn't try to break it till after the shuriken were thrown, when he knew. And we know that perfect Jins like Bee control the chakra as Naruto showed after Kurama fight. He can access that chakra whenever he wants.

Amaterasu- He showed against Madara, he can cut his own tail off and escape.

Susanoo- Bijuu dama GG.

In base Bee fucking destroys him.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 12, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> No he didn't...He got hit in the face, cried out in pain, and tried to hunker down in the water, which he found out doesn't do shit. Bee would have gotten One shotted right there had Karin not needed saving causing Sauce to cut his tentacle.



The tails clearly blocked it here. And Bee can cut his own tail off and save himself.


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## Kai (Sep 12, 2014)

Bee can't defeat Itachi in a full out fight.


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## Dr. White (Sep 12, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> The tails clearly blocked it here. And Bee can cut his own tail off and save himself.



No, you can clearly see his face on fire in the next panel.

Bee can't cut his tail off while he is screaming in Pain.

It's also a dumbass plan because 
-Sasuke was only trying to catch Bee not kill him.
-If Sasuke was trying to kill him and Karin wasn't there to distract his attention Bee would have never had time to cut a tail off and escape because Sasuke would be on his ass with a follow up.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 12, 2014)

Kai said:


> Bee can't defeat Itachi in a full out fight.





And...


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## IchLiebe (Sep 12, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> No, you can clearly see his face on fire in the next panel.
> 
> Bee can't cut his tail off while he is screaming in Pain.
> 
> ...



Why do Itachi fans do this? Why lie? I can read the manga too and fact check any thing you say. The next panel it's not on his face. We see it hit his tails and in the next panel he's in, it's clearly not on his face. It spread to his face, but did not hit his face as he blocked it with his tentacles even though it was aimed at his face the page before.

1. Sasuke was trying to live there and they agreed that they could only catch him if they tried to kill him.
2. It takes literally a second. Did you not see my scan where Bee did it before Madara could seal him? Sasuke was not in any shape to go after Bee. Bee would have put a beatdown on him and killed taka.


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## Dr. White (Sep 12, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Why do Itachi fans do this? Why lie? I can read the manga too and fact check any thing you say. The next panel it's not on his face. We see it hit his tails and in the next panel he's in, it's clearly not on his face. It spread to his face, but did not hit his face as he blocked it with his tentacles even though it was aimed at his face the page before.


-Bee thought he was about to solo them. In response Sasuke activated use of Amaterasu.
-You clearly see the amaterasu summon around Bee's face. 
-On the panel you show you can see some around his neck.
-It then completely starts to burn his horns and around his eyes.

Amaterasu doesn't travel and Bee had no knowledge as to what was coming is way.




> 1. Sasuke was trying to live there and they agreed that they could only catch him if they tried to kill him.


Which means using deadly techniques. Not going 100% to kill someone, as you clearly see Sasuke put out the fire over his corpse. If Sasuke didn't have to save Karin Bee would have had no opportunity to successfully escape.


> 2. It takes literally a second. Did you not see my scan where Bee did it before Madara could seal him? Sasuke was not in any shape to go after Bee. Bee would have put a beatdown on him and killed taka.


Sasuke wouldn't have had to if Karin wasn't there to fuck things up. Sasuke would have noticed Bee cut his own tentacle off and seen the chakra, prompting him to fuck Bee. 

Itachi is also not newly gained MS Sasuke.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 12, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> -Bee thought he was about to solo them. In response Sasuke activated use of Amaterasu.
> -You clearly see the amaterasu summon around Bee's face.
> -On the panel you show you can see some around his neck.
> -It then completely starts to burn his horns and around his eyes.
> ...



It clearly doesn't hit his face. We saw it coming toward his face and the next page it hit his tentacles. He blocked it. It didn't get on his face till he started flailing.



> Which means using deadly techniques. Not going 100% to kill someone, as you clearly see Sasuke put out the fire over his corpse. If Sasuke didn't have to save Karin Bee would have had no opportunity to successfully escape.



Fight to kill=100% trying to kill. Sasuke wanted to capture him and they were given a chance so he did it. He clearly used a deadly jutsu and didn't know how to stop the flames. He was surpised when he saved Karin that he could put it out.



> Sasuke wouldn't have had to if Karin wasn't there to fuck things up. Sasuke would have noticed Bee cut his own tentacle off and seen the chakra, prompting him to fuck Bee.
> 
> Itachi is also not newly gained MS Sasuke.



How? He couldn't do anything. He was out of chakra and was having a hard time moving after the fight. Killer bee showed no signs of injury and still had plenty in the tank to kill exhausted Sasuke, exhausted Juugo, and Suigetsu and Karin were done.


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## Icegaze (Sep 13, 2014)

SSMG said:


> @Icekaze. Partial killer bee reacted to minato and countered his attack on ei all before ei could react.. or well during the time raikage was reacting to minato.
> 
> When base bee overpowered ei during their lariat clash.. bee clashed with v2 raikage in the middle ground(meaning hes about the same speed as ei)
> 
> ...



 
the lariat clash Ei wasnt using full speed he had no need to it was a clash of strength. Seriously!! your extrapolations are massively shaky. reacting to minato hirashin is definitely an impressive feat. 
however being able to move an arm doesnt equate to being able to move out of line of sight, which by the way can simply follow said movement. sharingan predicts movement. not saying bee cant move at all however he would need to flat out get completely out of itachi line of sight which he simply cant. 
blocking Ammy still means death. you have to avoid it or use a technique to defeat it 

Again amaterasu kills bee, i love how people use the least consistent feats to suggest amaterasu is slow. this technique is 1 of the most used. juubito didnt simply side step it. I dont see how bee gets out of itachi circumference of sight. 

say itachi is at 15m from bee. that means itachi circumference of sight is that  distanceXpiX2=94 
you are saying killer bee crosses 94m out of sight before itachi can merely adjust his sight by a flick of the eye. 

you will notice Ei purposely used his *max*  shunshin to get behind sasuke he didnt simply try to out run it like sasuke did with itachi


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## SSMG (Sep 13, 2014)

Ei was still using v2 shroud for the lariat clash which was the same level he used to dodge sasukes ammy. It was also never stated that ei dodged it with his max shunshin for sasukes. iirc the only times ei said hes used max speed was when naruto dodged him  and against edo madara.

And well bee can use his arm to grab something and retract his body out of the way... i dont think bee has shown this but kcm naruto has so bee should be able to as well.

also about your sharigan can follow his movements.. it cant follow his movements if hes in eis shunshin level of speed or higher..  Now im assuming itachis ammys start up and traveling speed are the same as sasukes was.

If by inconsistent feats you mean im going with high end speed feats for kb.. then i dont see the issue.. we only use high end feats for debates.

and for your equation ei was that distance if not closer and he dodged it using v2 shroud.. and kb has feats which should allow him to replicate this feat.

And kb can even get hit and sub himself out as long as he blocks it with a tail its not a gurantee gg like you keep saying it is.


But itachi can still possibly beat him with ammy...  the best way for that would b if he just needs to genjutsu him then hit him with ammy so bee cant do anything ive said above.


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## Icegaze (Sep 13, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Ei was still using v2 shroud for the lariat clash which was the same level he used to dodge sasukes ammy. It was also never stated that ei dodged it with his max shunshin for sasukes. iirc the only times ei said hes used max speed was when naruto dodged him  and against edo madara.
> 
> And well bee can use his arm to grab something and retract his body out of the way... i dont think bee has shown this but kcm naruto has so bee should be able to as well.
> 
> ...



ok you are doing this unpurpose. naruto in KCM which is simply kyuubi chakra round his body doesnt always move at max shunshin why would Ei in a similar chakra cloak always be moving at max shunshin. He wasnt trying to blitz killer bee. seriously!!  

. C stated Ei amped up his chakra to the max before using his shunshin !! seriously!!! 

killer bee can substitute himself with a tail however, his real body would have to quickly get out of sight to prevent itachi from simply using another amaterasu. This is why when sasuke used oral rebirth he hid underground, he didnt just spit himself out. 

So in the end its still amaterasu GG

By inconsistent feats i was referring to people using the slowest possible feats for amaterasu to disregard its speed 

like you just said the high end feats should be used this includes amaterasu as well 
in such a case, it doesnt even travel!! killer bee stands no chance of avoiding it. 
but then again its high end feats for everything else but amaterasu i get you  that strong bias


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## SSMG (Sep 13, 2014)

Im not claiming ei is always using max shunshin... youre the one who claimed he used his max shunshin against sasuke when that was never stated.  C didnt say anything about whether that was his max speed or not.. just that ei was keeping his chakra pumped up for a shunshin.

Killer bee has already quickly gone out of a MS users sight from the debris of an attack to get across a moubtain range.. so yes kb should be able to get away in the chaos of his clone getting burnt to ashes.


And does ammy have any other feats of it being outright dodged? or a character who is shown to be faster than v2 raikage getting hit by it? if not then this is its high end limit for it hitting something.


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## Icegaze (Sep 13, 2014)

Raikage is faster than killer bee 
The end 
Killer bee cannot move at his speed 
Wasn't stated to be able to 
Also note itachi isn't sasuke. Madara was able to physically react to Ei while sasuke couldn't even track him 
Obito casually reacts to Ei 
No reason why itachi shouldn't be able to react to killer bee casually 

Considering it has very clearly been stated outside Minato Ei is the fastest 

Amaterasu high end feat is it appearing at the target and being large enough to cover bee entirely therefore tentacle block won't help


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## SSMG (Sep 13, 2014)

Proof? ive given you examples of the opposite to which you have now conceeded to.

Madara has a set of eyes that are two stages higher than MS.. yet sasuke and itachi both only had MS.  Obito was never shown to be faster than v2 raikage.. when raikage tried attacking him at the end of the summit that was v1 ei...

and thats was raikage bragging about himself.. and he was shown to be wrong that chapter so thats moot.

And what? ammy has never apeared on the target instantly.. it appears wherevere the user is looking(heck even when raikage dodged it it appeared to hit him first) but if youre faster than the viewer can percieve than it doesnt hit the target. so thats not its high end feat since someone has dodged it even when it instantly appeared on him. 

And when has anyone made a bijuu sized ammy?  It always starts small and spreads.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 14, 2014)

Rocky said:


> What is this with B having limited intelligence? He's actually shown to be clever, not idiotic like Naruto.
> 
> He's just chill and funny. Don't mistake that for slow.
> 
> Also, Kisame only beat B because B held back. Had he transformed into the Hachibi, he would have picked Kisame up and split him in half.



B is dumb. He literally hugged Samehada with Kisame right there.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

1) kamui mechianics and amaterasu mechanics are identitical. 1 creates a worm hole the other black flames
when kakashi first used the technique deidara, was able to react to it. So why is sasuke first time usage being used to determine amaterasu speed. When kishi has gone out of his way to show that the same jutsu can be used at different speed. take obito and kakashi, obito kamui has been shown to be slower 
So lets not attribute sasuke debutant usage of amaterasu to determine how itachi would use it or how quick his usage is 
2) killer bee cannot avoid kamui why do people think he can avoid amaterasu??? or even block it. both work the exact same way. only difference is the worm hole can lol GG a person once it appears and amaterasu all depends on the size of the flame. Which by the way itachi can make one much larger than killer bee 
as shown in the cave against kabuto 

3) tobirama stated ET didnt revive him at full strength, kyuubi and madara said the same thing held true for madara. As an ET he couldnt use the full power of rinnengan. Why should this not apply to itachi dojutsu??
healthy itachi could be a better dojutsu user than ET itachi

4) healthy nothing at all stops itachi from using susanoo or amaterasu off the bat. We could say he uses genjutsu and it isnt IC for him but when was the last time he fought to win against someone on bee level 
same way i see no reason why bee cant start in V2 once he sees itachi and is going for the kill 
instead of just defending himself like in cannon

5) Ei is stated and has been shown to be faster than killer bee that isnt even debtable. being able to blitz sasuke while his vision was compromised isnt the same as what Ei did which was flat out blitz sasuke while sasuke was still looking in the opposite direction. 
Despite Ei speed madara could still physically react to him. Why are we assuming that a slower character than Ei would be able to blindside itachi when itachi MS usage was much better than sasuke at the time killer bee and Ei blitz sasuke??
Afterall obito had no issues reacting to Ei. 


Being able to blits novice MS sasuke isnt the same as blitzing anyone else. itachi has shown much better reaction and movement speed than sasuke. so killer bee gets floored


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## SSMG (Sep 14, 2014)

Its been stated and shown how kakashis speed with kamui has increased. do you have any feats or statements to suggest sasukes ammy speed increased as well?  Also keep it to MS feats since im not talking about his more evolved eyes...

But if you want to go by direct feats against itachis ammy... killer bee was able to react and throw his sword at itachi before itachi could activate the technique. and this was edo itachi who is better than alive itachi.

When has killer bee ever fought against and had to dodge kamui? never? then why bring it up?
And edo itachi can spread flames that big not living itachi.

And madara tobirama and madara are all chakra beast it makes sense how they werent brought back at full strength... but not all edos were held back... hiruzen nor minato commented about not being at full strength..

Eis statement was shown to be wrong that chapter... and he was shown to not know bees strength that same chapter so that statement is moot. and you have yet to cite one actual feat of why ei is faster concession accepted.

obito didnt react to v2 ei....  that was v1.

And itachi doesnt have better reaction feats than sasuke.. edo itachi may but tjats an itachi who never runs of f chakra... something that alive itachi has to be very careful about. But if alive itachi has betterreaction feats than MS sasuke could you present them?

but it seems like youre trying to get into a long ass debate about this.. which is lame...just present the feats that makes raikage faster than kb.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Provide 1 single panel that states or shows killer bee is Ei equal in speed 
Make a poll for it if you will and let NF tell you how wrong you are 
Ms sasuke front flips to avoid 3 tail killer bee yet he is unable to do anymore than move his neck against Ei yet you compare the 2 of them in speed 
Lolz

Itachi has already shown on panel to be able to react and keep fighting while prepping chakra for Amaterasu 
So throwing a knife at him won't kill him or sasuke would have considering he used a Katon, chidori, shadow shirkuen Jutsu

Even an idiot knows that the size of the flames all depends on the chakra prepped for it 
When turning the crow to ashes he needed no prep to do the same the cerebrus he did 
Same holds true for kamui 
However the convineient thing here is Amaterasu spreads so once bee is hit he is done for 
Unless as previously discussed he transforms to hachibi and has his tail cut off 

the effectiveness of a Jutsu is of course affected by experience 
Kishi doesn't need to state sasuke was a novice during his first time usage as it was his first time 
unless you can explain to me how during his first time killer bee clearly saw it coming yet Sm madara who is leagues killer bee superior the flames just appeared on him no drawing marks to show it's approach


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## Kingston (Sep 14, 2014)

This is between Tailed Beast and Susano and I honestly think that those two can compete with each other with the levels of strengths they both have (except that the Susano is a better defense mechanisme, but I reckon the eight-tales are a bit more powerfull).

Then it will come down to this; pure strength and cunningness combined...

Although Killer Bee is a powerful shinobi, it will always be outwitted by Itachi, cuz Itachi is one of the smartest shinobi ever lived.


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## SSMG (Sep 14, 2014)

@Ice

Here is bee reacting to and moving his tentacle over the distance ei just covered in such a time as to save e from minatos attack. aka he reacted and then moved that far in the time it took v2 to react and move out of minatos attack. yet v2 ei can react after ammy is already appearing on him.

2

Here is bee and raikages distance from each other.
2

Here is them closing the gap is the middle ground.
2

Both these feats put bee on eis v2 reactions/speed. 

And there is always the feat of bee reacting and blocking ammy itself.
2 
That is sasuke aiming the ammy at killer bees face/neck.

2

Here is bee getting hit by the ammy and its hitting his tail placed infront of his body.. not on his face. It then spread to the rest of his body.

so do you have feats to back up your claim?


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Sasuke front flips to avoid 3 tails Killer bee yet can barely move his neck against V2 Ei 
I need no more proof than that
Despite kishi clearly asserting Ei is faster than him 
You clearly don't know how to argue a statement has been made by kishi which he has made the effort to show panels proving said statement you are the one making a claim with no proof yet ask me for evidence. Well above is your evidence . The same characters reacts very easily to killer bee yet can't track Ei. 
Karin a character who had seen both characters fight mentions Ei is impossibly fast 
She says nothing of the sort about killer bee
Your panels are worth nothing


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## Trojan (Sep 14, 2014)

Kai said:


> Bee can't defeat Itachi in a full out fight.



He can.

What can itachi do against 4 TBBs to his face? 



Nikushimi said:


> B is dumb. He literally hugged Samehada with Kisame right there.



itachi is dumb as well. 


He literally needs years to figure things out. Actually some stuff he needed another life to understand.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 14, 2014)

I'm not sure about Itachi beating Killer Bee, but I'm pretty sure that Itachi is anything but 'dumb'.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Amaterasu GG


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## SSMG (Sep 14, 2014)

Low end feats do not discredit high end feats ice... this is fictional debating basics..  what you said has no bearing on killer bees high end speed feat.  We have direct comparisons between bee and raikages reaction and movement speeds and they are in the same tier.  Youre trying to use powerscaling for your feat when we have actual feats.
But this is all pointless.. bijuu dama eradicates itachi ten /ten times.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Lol says the guy who can't argue 
The same character at the same level reacted to kb with ease but couldn't react to Ei 
Then we have kishimoto the guy who owns and wrote the manga saying Ei is faster than kb
But sure go on with your BS
When the high end feats of Amaterasu show it appearing on the target now unless kb is Chris angel he isn't disappearing 
Kb dies way before he goes hachibi mode to use BD 

Learn to argue


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## SSMG (Sep 14, 2014)

ive already addressed and rebutted most of those points.. to which you have conceded to me in these rebuttals. but youre telling me to lrn2argue? lol troloololol confirmed.


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## Icegaze (Sep 14, 2014)

Explain how kb goes hachibi mode and fires bd before itachi uses Amaterasu 
Go superior troll 
You can't rebute a fact created by kishi 
Fact by kishi Ei is faster than kb cuz he wants him to be


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## SSMG (Sep 14, 2014)

Even If killer bee gets hit by ammy he can still fire off an bd and kill itachi before the ammy consumes him. gg.

and again that was ei stating that.. not kishi.. and ei was proven wrong the same chapter he made that claim and the previous chapter was all about how ei didnt realize killer bees real strength.. but you knew this already because ive already said this...


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 15, 2014)

Bee's Bijuudama didn't even kill Suigetsu, it's not getting past Yata mirror + V4 Susanoo + kill Itachi.

Besides, the moment he turns into Hachibi he eats an Amaterasu, and Itachi would notice if he uses substitution and will just fire at the substitution or seal it away with Totsuka.

Thats if the fight doesn't end much sooner with Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu, like Naruto stated.

Not only that, but Itachi made Bee look like an amateur againts Nagato.

Itachi is smarter and just a better shinobi overall.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

what said above sums it up sick of arguing with a kid who somehow thinks that hachibi can eat amaterasu and still fire off BD when he utterly failed to do so on *PANEL!!! he ate it screamed like a bitch and hid himself *

but yh sure he kills itachi with it while failed to kill suigetsu. suuuuuure!!!


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## SSMG (Sep 15, 2014)

Umm killer bee wanted to get away from his village for a bit.. hemce him flailing and bringing down that tenacle so itd get chopped off. He was still level headed enough to formulate this tail swab plan of his so hed be able to think to fire off a bijiu dama.

also sugietsu merged with an entire lake so that boosted his strength to unknown level.

and also guy didnt kill kisame with an AT yet he busted madaras v3 susanno so just because killer bees bijuu dama didnt kill sugiestu(even though it severaly damaged him amd took him out of tje fight) doesnt mean itachi susanno is safe.

But killer bee isnt getting hit by ammy as i have showcased through feats so this is moot really.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

of course he isnt in* SSMG manga* no doubt but in kishi manga he eats it casually 
love how a very direct speed comparison was made, sasuke avoid killer bee casually yet cant move his neck against Ei but somehow the brilliant poster SSMG thinks they are equal in speed. 

oh and as to firing off BD while covered in amaterasu you do realize it needs to be focused right doubt he can be doing that while screaming. Then again suigetsu and his silly lake have never even been remotely compared in defense to susanoo but sure go ahead and believe what you will. 

most agree with me anywayz 

toodles


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## SSMG (Sep 15, 2014)

So you use ad homenim when your argument falls apart? Classy.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

Laiwan Yi said:


> I'm not sure about Itachi beating Killer Bee, but I'm pretty sure that Itachi is anything but 'dumb'.



Well, a dense if that sounds better.


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## Ghost (Sep 15, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Well, a denser if that sounds better.



How can someone be "a denser"?  That makes no sense.


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## Dominus (Sep 15, 2014)

saikyou said:


> How can someone be "a denser"?  That makes no sense.



You need to know how to dense.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> You need to know how to dense.



hahah epic!! to the thing replying me. its ok you win. OP go for a poll. just for the lolz.


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## SSMG (Sep 15, 2014)

saikyou said:


> How can someone be "a denser"?  That makes no sense.





hes using either 2a or 2b definitions which one can be more stupid than someone else or more ignorant.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

saikyou said:


> How can someone be "a denser"?  That makes no sense.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 15, 2014)

Killer B doesn't stand a chance against Itachi. 
Any technique of his MS can take down Bee quite decisively. 

And Itachi has a better chance of pulling out his powerful stuff more quickly.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Killer B doesn't stand a chance against Itachi.
> Any technique of his MS can take down Bee quite decisively.
> 
> And Itachi has a better chance of pulling out his powerful stuff more quickly.



any attack from B will kill itachi as well. 



> And Itachi has a better chance of pulling out his powerful stuff more quickly



based on what?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 15, 2014)

Hussain said:


> any attack from B will kill itachi as well.



The attacks in V2 or Bijuu Mode, yes. 
Considering they're probably the only attacks that have any chance of landing on Itachi...
But they can also be tanked by Susano'o. Or BM makes Killer B a larger target for Amaterasu/Totsuka.



> based on what?



Based on the fact that Killer B fools around. Itachi decided to use Tsukuyomi on someone as weak as P1 Kakashi, when he could have just defeated him in base.

Not to mention Itachi is just the perfect counter... Bee only has destructive power and stamina on him.
And that's also why Itachi wouldn't prolong the fight, choosing to eliminate him hastily.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> The attacks in V2 or Bijuu Mode, yes.
> Considering they're probably the only attacks that have any chance of landing on Itachi...
> But they can also be tanked by Susano'o. Or BM makes Killer B a larger target for Amaterasu/Totsuka.
> 
> ...



- Amatersu is a fodder jutsu + B already got rid of it even without knowledge. 
- He won't give itachi an opining just like he did not give to anyone else, and he did not in their fight.
- or B uses his TBBs and send itachi to oblivion?  

itachi does not stand a chance against any attack from a TBB. In addition that B fought MS Sasuke and he almost killed him several times, when we know that itachi is below that level. U_U


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Konohamaru beats itachi 
I mean I have seen hussain write kimimaro is on itachi level 
Then he calls Amaterasu a fodder Jutsu the same Justus kaguya took note off but sure 
Amaterasu is fodder and kamui isn't 
the uchiha hate is strong in this one 

let me guess as well naruto as a baby beats itachi


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

> Then he calls Amaterasu a fodder Jutsu the same Justus kaguya took note off but sure



everyone and their mothers do that. 
even fodder Samurai. I know it's hard for itachi's fans to acknowledge that, but this shitty jutsu does nothing. lol
I mean for God sake they think itachi's magetema or whatever it called as powerful as TBB. :rofl

that just to give you a sense of how much they overrate his jutsus. lol


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Yh it is fodder 
So fodder kaguya decided to give up on an entire dimension because of it 
So so fodder it took out hachibi 
I mean so fodder it burnt sasuke in half 
Burnt jiraiya summon ( Minato has the same summon most likely lets see if that fact changes ur mind )
So fodder kabuto muki tensei was trolled by it utterly trolled 
So fodder kabuto rates the Jutsu 

So fodder Ei lost an arm to it
But hey it's fodder cuz hussain the new author of naruto says so


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

did they survive at the end of the day or not?


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Deidara survived kamui
Kamui is fodder 
Obito has survived multiple rasengan it's fodder 
Killer bee countered Minato hirashin it's fodder 
Minato with a kunai hasn't killed any named character he is fodder


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## Bloo (Sep 15, 2014)

Hussain said:


> everyone and their mothers do that.
> even fodder Samurai. I know it's hard for itachi's fans to acknowledge that, but *this shitty jutsu does nothing*. lol


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## SSMG (Sep 15, 2014)

No way can ammy be considered a fodder technique when naruto stated itd end killer bee if it hit.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Deidara survived kamui
> Kamui is fodder
> Obito has survived multiple rasengan it's fodder
> Killer bee countered Minato hirashin it's fodder
> Minato with a kunai hasn't killed any named character he is fodder



lol, Amatersu failed every single freaking time. 
those jutsus you mentioned did not. 


which he survived with a clone.


----------



## SSMG (Sep 15, 2014)

Ammy damn near instantly burnt down the toad stomach wall. as well as the cerbeus.. so it hasnt failed every time.


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

I honestly still don't understand how the heck did that happen with the frog. I guess Amatersu was retconned after part 1. lol

and for the cerbeus it was already defeated by Narudo though. @>@


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## Bloo (Sep 15, 2014)

Hussain said:


> I honestly still don't understand how the heck did that happen with the frog. I guess Amatersu was retconned after part 1. lol
> 
> *and for the cerbeus it was already defeated by Narudo though. @>@*




You're just a poor excuse for a troll, as evidenced by the fact that you locked up your rep in fear of being negged for your stupid contentions.


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## Icegaze (Sep 15, 2014)

Oh please leave Hussain the troll 
Rasengan,PS and kamui haven't killed anyone either nor has BD
I guess all fodder Jutsu 
he isn't worth debating


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## Trojan (Sep 15, 2014)

Bloo said:


> You're just a poor excuse for a troll, as evidenced by the fact that you locked up your rep in fear of being negged for your stupid contentions.



nvm. 

so much importance was placed
so much importance was placed

it was not moving the whole time after Naruto's attack. 
itachi just then attacked it. 

it was already beaten up. 
and yes, someone who's on the ground and can't move is considered defeated in my book. 



> fear of being negged for your stupid contentions.



or rather because there are a lot of childish itachi's fans that I don't plan to deal with. 




> Oh please leave Hussain the troll
> Rasengan,PS and kamui haven't killed anyone either nor has BD
> I guess all fodder Jutsu
> he isn't worth debating



pfff,
I think you itachi's fans are all the same, only good with insulting.. 

but anyway, Madara stated that everyone saw the PS before died. 
Obito killed tons of people when he rampaged due to his Kamui 
Kurama and the other Bijuus killed tons of people in the villages 
Rassengan destroyed almost all of Nagato's paths, and defeated the 3rd Raikage...etc


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## Pocalypse (Sep 15, 2014)

Technically, didn’t Itachi face Bee with no knowledge in the manga anyway whereas Bee had to be reminded on how to avoid Itachi’s attacks? I mean, an in character Bee would opt to use his Samehada to try and attack his target, Itachi already dodged that *[1]*. Then he dodged Bee’s second attack as well when Itachi told him he appeared behind him *[2]* . Then when did Bee actually capture him with a tail, it was a bunshin *[3]* . Then Bee opted to use his seven sword dance which Itachi again, clearly dodged it with his Sharingan *[4]* , something even Sasuke failed to do and got obliterated with it. Let's not forget his Katons are dangerous to Bee and Samehada as well, a few Shurikens wrapped in Katons managed to hurt Bee.

Really, Itachi was dancing circles around him. What else could Bee do? If he tried Lariat then he’d hit a bunshin as usual. If he transformed fully then he’ll eat Amaterasu for breakfast. Sorry but Bee gets slaughtered here.


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## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 15, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> Technically, didn?t Itachi face Bee with no knowledge in the manga anyway whereas Bee had to be reminded on how to avoid Itachi?s attacks? I mean, an in character Bee would opt to use his Samehada to try and attack his target, Itachi already dodged that *[1]*. Then he dodged Bee?s second attack as well when Itachi told him he appeared behind him *[2]* . Then when did Bee actually capture him with a tail, it was a bunshin *[3]* . Then Bee opted to use his seven sword dance which Itachi again, clearly dodged it with his Sharingan *[4]* , something even Sasuke failed to do and got obliterated with it. Let's not forget his Katons are dangerous to Bee and Samehada as well, a few Shurikens wrapped in Katons managed to hurt Bee.
> 
> Really, Itachi was dancing circles around him. What else could Bee do? If he tried Lariat then he?d hit a bunshin as usual. If he transformed fully then he?ll eat Amaterasu for breakfast. Sorry but Bee gets slaughtered here.



Jesus christ. Best post in this thread.

Killer Bee couldn't even hit Itachi from behind while Itachi was fighting KCM Naruto, and Itachi didn't even show like he was trying with Bee.

All Bee got was a bunshin, and then Naruto stated if he got hit by Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu Bee was toast.

Realistically, Itachi would have masacred Bee in that fight.

If Bee turned into full form he'd just be a bigger target for Amaterasu or Totsuka GG. 

Itachi saved his ass againts Nagato, was the one who deviced the plan to stop Nagato, and was the one who delivered the final blow, while Bee stood there like an idiot in awe of Itachi's skill and power and was left commenting "That guy was hella strong"


----------



## Pocalypse (Sep 15, 2014)

Exactly, Bee just couldn't land a hit on him no matter what he tried. To the point that the poor guy actually thought he got Itachi but then it turned out to be a bunshin... Itachi's just way faster than him and this was Itachi all in base, not even one MS technique used against Bee. When you find Katon wrapped up Shurikens as something which hurts, you're in deep shit.

What's intriguing is the distance he also made from Bee's first Samehada attack. 

> Bee attacks
> Itachi dodges
> Gains distance by retreating next to Nagato
> Bee is still in mid air

...that's fast.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Amatersu is a fodder jutsu + B already got rid of it even without knowledge.



A fodder technique that put Gyuuki in pain; destroyed the fire-resistant toad; incinerated Ei's arm; and was shown to be Cerberus' ultimate counter? 



> - He won't give itachi an opining just like he did not give to anyone else, and he did not in their fight.



What? 
Killer B was on the losing side against Itachi. Had the fight dragged on, he would have certainly lost the fight. Bee was allowing the openings as the fight went on.

Heck, Itachi saved his ass from Nagato.



> - or B uses his TBBs and send itachi to oblivion?



That gets tanked by Susano'o w/ Yata and followed up by Totsuka... 



> itachi does not stand a chance against any attack from a TBB.



His large form won't be using Bijuudama when it's being incinerated by Amaterasu, and Susano'o w/ Yata will shrug off that TBB.



> In addition that B fought MS Sasuke and he almost killed him several times, when we know that itachi is below that level. U_U



The version of MS Sasuke that fought Killer B was far weaker than Itachi.
Even you know that, Elia. He didn't have Tsukuyomi/Susano'o and had poor control over Amaterasu - just managing to control the flames upon casting them - and he was still recovering from getting Orochimaru's power taken out of him. 

We already saw Itachi besting Bee when he was reincarnated as Edo Tensei, and the latter didn't pressure him one bit. Rather, the guy was being outperformed in base; lectured by Itachi (himself)/Naruto to be careful; and someone wasn't dumb enough to fight the sword dance that fodderized Sasuke. 

Itachi's choices and intellect are exactly why he's able to fight opponents that appear to be physical monsters, as he doesn't need guidance and analyzes the situation before jumping in. Because of that one reason, he'd be the worst match-up for Bee from the start.


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## Veracity (Sep 16, 2014)

To be completely fair, the reason Sasuke got shitted on against Bees sword style and not Itachi was because Sasuke was offensively attacking against bee while Itachi was clearly running. Sasuke canonically was able to keep up for a bit( like Itachi) but eventually got overwhelmed: *[4]*

It Itachi was actually offensively attacking, he too would have easily been overwhelmed, not to mention what happens when instead of entering full BM mode bee rushes in with V1 and V2 cloaks. Yeah Itachis best bet isn't a CQC skirmish. He need to keep a good distance.


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## Trojan (Sep 16, 2014)

> =King Itachi;51737637]A fodder technique that put Gyuuki in pain; destroyed the fire-resistant toad; incinerated Ei's arm; and was shown to be Cerberus' ultimate counter?


> all survived. 


> What?
> Killer B was on the losing side against Itachi. Had the fight dragged on, he would have certainly lost the fight. Bee was allowing the openings as the fight went on.
> 
> Heck, Itachi saved his ass from Nagato.


No, itachi clearly ran away from B, and when the latter attacked him with his sword Nagato used ST to save him. 




> That gets tanked by Susano'o w/ Yata and followed up by Totsuka...


lol, the Susanoo got destroyed by 1 Kirin. Where has itachi's Susanoo even shown to be able to tank 4 TBBs?  


> His large form won't be using Bijuudama when it's being incinerated by Amaterasu, and Susano'o w/ Yata will shrug off that TBB.


Sasuke has Amatersu, and yet B used his TBB against them, and survived the Amatersu.  



> The version of MS Sasuke that fought Killer B was far weaker than Itachi.
> Even you know that, Elia. He didn't have Tsukuyomi/Susano'o and had poor control over Amaterasu - just managing to control the flames upon casting them - and he was still recovering from getting Orochimaru's power taken out of him.



How do you know that he's far weaker than itachi, when the latter himself admitted Hebi sasuke's power and he would have been dead without his Susanoo? 



> We already saw Itachi besting Bee when he was reincarnated as Edo Tensei, and the latter didn't pressure him one bit. Rather, the guy was being outperformed in base; lectured by Itachi (himself)/Naruto to be careful; and someone wasn't dumb enough to fight the sword dance that fodderized Sasuke.


all what we saw is itachi running, that all he did. 
and it's funny you said in base, when itachi has no mods. lol 


> Itachi's choices and intellect are exactly why he's able to fight opponents that appear to be physical monsters, as he doesn't need guidance and analyzes the situation before jumping in. Because of that one reason, he'd be the worst match-up for Bee from the star


t.
but itachi was called dens by BZ, and stupid by B. 

and his analysing only came of spying on the Akatsuki for 10 years. That's a huge amount of time.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 16, 2014)

rasengan hasnt killed anyone. its fodder. 
minato got impaled by kyuubi he is fodder 
best of all FRS its fodder even a fodder jutsu like amaterasu killed cerebrus while FRS only made it stronger


----------



## Bloo (Sep 16, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> To be completely fair, the reason Sasuke got shitted on against Bees sword style and not Itachi was because Sasuke was offensively attacking against bee while Itachi was clearly running. Sasuke canonically was able to keep up for a bit( like Itachi) but eventually got overwhelmed: Figures out the weakness while Minato could not.
> 
> It Itachi was actually offensively attacking, he too would have easily been overwhelmed, not to mention what happens when instead of entering full BM mode bee rushes in with V1 and V2 cloaks. Yeah Itachis best bet isn't a CQC skirmish. He need to keep a good distance.


Actually, Itachi parried Bee multiple times in that kenjutsu exchange, hence the clash effects in that panel:
Figures out the weakness while Minato could not.


----------



## Remsengan (Sep 16, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> rasengan hasnt killed anyone. its fodder.
> minato got impaled by kyuubi he is fodder
> best of all FRS its fodder even a fodder jutsu like amaterasu killed cerebrus while FRS only made it stronger



Comparing completely different situations while ignoring the context is in no way a decent argument.



Icegaze said:


> rasengan hasnt killed anyone. its fodder.



First of all, the statement is externally false.  Rasengan, including its variants, has killed people.  It was a lethal blow to Animal Path and the other Peins caught in genjutsu.  They had to be reincarnated afterwards, so the implication is that, even though they were already 'dead'. they were dealt lethal blows. 

The statement is also internally flawed.  "Killed" is not a good qualifier as to how effective a justu is.  By that logic, any genjutsu or sealing tech may as well be considered fodder, as it doesn't kill the afflicted.  Perhaps a better word would be "finished" or "subdued", something that indicates that it's a win condition that concludes a fight.  Rasengan, in it's initial form, can at least "finish" opponents at jounin level in most cases.



Icegaze said:


> minato got impaled by kyuubi he is fodder



So many things wrong with this statement.  It really boils down to the fact that the Kyuubi is a beast and Minato acted as a human shield on purpose.  The Dead Demon Seal is a suicide technique, but in either case, Minato made the choice to die.



Icegaze said:


> best of all FRS its fodder even a fodder jutsu like amaterasu killed cerebrus while FRS only made it stronger



Cerebus didn't die, it was stuck in a stalemate of burning and regen'ing.  Another example of "killed" vs "subdued".  Even so, it's the persistent burning of Amaterasu that made it the better jutsu in this particular case.  It's not a quick-kill technique, which leaves intelligent opponents an opportunity to escape or do damage before they succumb to the flames.  

Cerebus, being a dead and controlled animal, was left to simply burn in agony.  Had Kabuto/Nagato been mindful of it, or even have cared, they could have dispelled it with Preta or some other technique.  FRS is intended to finish an opponent when it hits, in which it has both succeeded and failed at.  It was just a situation where Amaterasu better fitted the situation, FRS was just the wrong tech for the job.


----------



## Pocalypse (Sep 16, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Actually, Itachi parried Bee multiple times in that kenjutsu exchange, hence the clash effects in that panel:
> 1



I know right? Watch someone say Bee was fighting himself


----------



## Bloo (Sep 16, 2014)

Remsengan said:


> Comparing completely different situations while ignoring the context is in no way a decent argument.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


His claims about Rasengan being fodder is a joke to mimic Hussain's claims about Amaterasu. Look at the context.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 16, 2014)

Thanks bloo
Can't believe someone thinks I argue like that 
That's awful


----------



## SSMG (Sep 16, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Actually, Itachi parried Bee multiple times in that kenjutsu exchange, hence the clash effects in that panel:
> (1)



Sasuke was also able to parry bee a few times before he went for the offensive.
(1)
(1)


----------



## Bloo (Sep 16, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Sasuke was also able to parry bee a few times before he went for the offensive.
> (1)
> (1)


Never said he didn't, but this didn't happen to Itachi:
(1)


----------



## SSMG (Sep 16, 2014)

Yeah sasuke ate swords for breaky there.. but he also charged kb and parried his sword... if itachi didnt retreat back to nagatos side but charged kb and parried him like his bro did  i see no reason why this wouldnt be done to him as well.


----------



## KyuubiYondaime (Sep 16, 2014)

Itachi is on a completely different level than what Sasuke was when he fought Bee and it was shown in the fight. 

*Sasuke got owned by Bee in close quarters, whereas Itachi freaking dodged Killer Bee, while sparring with KCM Naruto like it was nothing, while Bee tried to blindsight him. Imagine upfront.*

Also, Sasuke managed to get Bee in a Genjutsu, but he didn't have Tsukuyomi. If Itachi had being the one, he would have used Tsukuyomi, and Killer Bee would be screwed because as Kakashi stated, partner method doesn't work on Tsukuyomi. Naruto basically confirmed this when he said Bee would lose to Tsukuyomi.

Sasuke didn't have Tsukuyomi/Susanoo/Yata Mirror/Totsuka sword either/Itachi's speed/Taijutsu or even Itachi's brain.



SSMG said:


> Yeah sasuke ate swords for breaky there.. but he also charged kb and parried his sword... if itachi didnt retreat back to nagatos side but charged kb and parried him like his bro did  i see no reason why this wouldnt be done to him as well.


It wouldn't have happened to him because he had just activated the MS and was about to own Bee with it.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 17, 2014)

During the two brothers different encounters with Bee, it's clear that Itachi is a better fighter and more skillful than Sasuke in base (and MS as well since Itachi has more hax techniques). Sasuke got ripped, and let's not forget that since Bee fought Sasuke, he gained knowledge on how Sasuke fights and what MS techniques he has so this also gave him an slight advantage over Itachi and yet Bee couldn't land a hit on him. The difference is quiet big. Seven sword dance and Bee's style of fighting will never reach Itachi, it's crystal clear.


----------



## Ghost (Sep 17, 2014)

Sasuke also had a superior tool against Bee compared to Itachi.


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## Pocalypse (Sep 17, 2014)

saikyou said:


> Sasuke also had a superior tool against Bee compared to Itachi.



Karin                ?


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## Ghost (Sep 17, 2014)

a sword while Itachi had a kunai.


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## Bloo (Sep 17, 2014)

saikyou said:


> a sword while Itachi had a kunai.


"A weapon's strength or weakness is dependent on the user's ability to use it. An expert with a pebble can still beat a novice with a shuriken."


----------



## Chaotic Gangsta (Sep 17, 2014)

Can I say Kotoamatsukami GG and be done with it


----------



## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Pocalypse said:


> During the two brothers different encounters with Bee, it's clear that Itachi is a better fighter and more skillful than Sasuke in base (and MS as well since Itachi has more hax techniques). Sasuke got ripped, and let's not forget that since Bee fought Sasuke, he gained knowledge on how Sasuke fights and what MS techniques he has so this also gave him an slight advantage over Itachi and yet Bee couldn't land a hit on him. The difference is quiet big. Seven sword dance and Bee's style of fighting will never reach Itachi, it's crystal clear.



Sasuke blocked more hits than itachi did so where are you basing any of this from?


----------



## Ghost (Sep 17, 2014)

Bloo said:


> "A weapon's strength or weakness is dependent on the user's ability to use it. An expert with a pebble can still beat a novice with a shuriken."



yes but I'd imagine Itachi would prefer a sword to a kunai against Bee's style.


----------



## Bloo (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Sasuke blocked more hits than itachi did so where are you basing any of this from?


Simple, Itachi was smart enough to back off. Sasuke was stupid enough to think going back in after easily being overwhelmed was a smart decision. But this should be no surprise. Sasuke is the same individual that ran into a fight, without preparation, against Madara.

Sasuke's battle competency pales in comparison to Itachi's.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Im not arguing against that.. i know itachi was smart enough to back off... but that in no way says itachi fared better than sasuke did against the seven sword style when they were actually facing the technique. Sure hes a smarter fighter but that doesnt make him more skillful.


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## Icegaze (Sep 18, 2014)

itachi actually never got hit by the technique. sasuke actually got grazed and was sent flying. 
I would say in all itachi still faired better.
then again yes he did back the fuck off. But not immediately so it aint like once bee goes 7 sword style itachi is defeated


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## ARGUS (Sep 18, 2014)

Killer Bee beats Sick Itachi
Edo Itachi beats Killer Bee


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## Icegaze (Sep 18, 2014)

@ARGUS sick itachi has amaterasu and used it twice in quick succession what makes u think with the intention to kill he does start with that. 
unless you have any feats suggesting he can get out of LoS in time he gets cooked.


----------



## IchLiebe (Sep 18, 2014)

Almost every fight shinobi have intent to kill. That doesn't mean they pull out jutsu like amaterasu at the beginning of a fight. Kakashi wanted to kill Zabuza but didn't use raikiri till the last part of their second fight.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 18, 2014)

erm that is a flat out lie ichi 
come on, 
itachi was perfectky stated on panel to have no intention to kill sasuke 
even in his fight with kabuto itachi said dont kill kabuto 

in sasuke fight with bee you have suigetsu clearly say they have to go at him with intention to kill him in order to actually capture him so the intent matters. 

this is shinobi 101 here. dont have to tell you that 

your example is rather weak and biased. cant lie. 

sasuke spared with itachi without the intention to defeat itachi during their bout. Nagato controlled by kabuto intention was to either capture naruto by ripping his soul out or to capture him physically. 

He never used nagato with the intention to outright kill 

sasuke went at danzo with the intention to outright kill him. You cannot compare how aggressive he was with danzo compared to how he was with deidara despite their different moveset. 

even when sasuke chidori deidara he purposely stated on panel that he missed vitals 

itachi with the intention to kill killer bee can clearly start off with amaterasu. The same way if bee isnt fuckign around he can opt for V2 immediately. 

Madara went with intention to kill hashirama notice how quickly he opted for PS. Yes he needs it but generally kishi has shown ninja who need to fight to kill their opponent do so mainly because they need to fight like that in order to win. 

You dont expect itachi to fight with nagato with the same mind set he would sakura. Hence intention dictates attacks


----------



## IchLiebe (Sep 18, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> erm that is a flat out lie ichi
> come on,
> itachi was perfectky stated on panel to have no intention to kill sasuke
> even in his fight with kabuto itachi said dont kill kabuto
> ...



.

Jiraiya had intent to kill Pain. Didn't go for SM till halfway through the fight. Kakashi had intent to Pain, didn't use Kamui till the end in defense. Kakashi had intent to kill Kakuzu and Hidan but didn't use Kamui. Madara had intent to kill the 4 division but didn't go out of his way, merely played around. Chunnin exams had a ton of intent to kill. Most Akatsuki fights were intent to kill except against jins and when Gai wanted to capture Kisame. The whole war arc has been to kill Obito and then Madara. 

In character is intent to kill for shinobi. Your talking bloodlusted which isn't the case here.


----------



## Final Jutsu (Sep 18, 2014)

I think Tsukiyomi may end this.  We've already seen sharingan users trap him in regular genjutsu twice.  So yeah, depends if he can break it or not.


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## SSMG (Sep 18, 2014)

I think by the time hachibi breaks out kb the effects of tsukiyomi would already have done its damage.


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## ARGUS (Sep 18, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @ARGUS sick itachi has amaterasu and used it twice in quick succession what makes u think with the intention to kill he does start with that.
> unless you have any feats suggesting he can get out of LoS in time he gets cooked.



He can release his shroud to get rid of the flames 
He can also replace his shroud If he's at V1/V2 
And in V2 he should also have the speed to evade them 
Or at full hachibi he can just block the flames with his tentacles and then take them out 

He then proceeds to use ink to block itachi LoS followed by TBB to nuke itachi off 

Edo itachi > Killer Bee > Sick Itachi


----------



## Bloo (Sep 18, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> .
> 
> Jiraiya had intent to kill Pain. Didn't go for SM till halfway through the fight.


Quit reading here. Jiraiya planned to use SM early on, he just needed time to pull it off.


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## Bkprince33 (Sep 18, 2014)

people are really trying to argue bee is faster then aye? lmaooooooo


the same bee who couldn't hit itachi while he was back turned and preoccupied with kcm naruto


----------



## ueharakk (Sep 18, 2014)

Bee should handily win this.

Narutoʻs statement about bee getting oneshot by amaterasu or tsukuyomi is conclusively false and only applicable to naruto as bee has already taken amaterasu and survived.  If bee gets hit with amaterasu, he cuts off a tail and pops out of it. If he gets hit by tsukuyomi, the hachibi breaks him out of it. Bee at best loses a tail while itachiʻs chakra takes a huge dip.

Susanoo gets beaten by the hachibi, unlike itachi or pretty much any living MS susanoo user, Bee in full hachibi form is very mobile as heʻs not under negative side affects of MS strain.  He can also move while charging TBB and rapidfire them.  considering V3 has been busted by AT and has been blown open by attacks as weak as danzouʻs enhanced fuuton and a bijuudama is suppose to be a level above a far stronger fuuton, rapidfire TBB should be gg for itachiʻs V4 even with yaata unless one gives yaata no limits.   Totsuka isnʻt landing as bee has 10 apendages to grab and restrain susanoo as well as higher mobility, and his main offense is long range which means he probably wonʻt even be close to itachiʻs susanoo.

So bee should handily win.  Itachiʻs 3 MS jutsu are handily countered, other than that his lesser jutsu arenʻt much to beeʻs lesser abilities.  Then thereʻs the fact that itachiʻs jutsu are so chakra costly while bee can fight for hours in his most powerful mode.


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## Bloo (Sep 19, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Bee should handily win this.
> 
> Narutoʻs statement about bee getting oneshot by amaterasu or tsukuyomi is conclusively false and only applicable to naruto as bee has already taken amaterasu and survived.  If bee gets hit with amaterasu, he cuts off a tail and pops out of it. *If he gets hit by tsukuyomi, the hachibi breaks him out of it.*


Considering that Bee was caught in Itachi's genjutsu for quite a few panels before he was broken free of it, how is Hachibi going to break Bee out when it lasts a second?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 19, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Considering that Bee was caught in Itachi's genjutsu for quite a few panels before he was broken free of it, how is Hachibi going to break Bee out when it lasts a second?


The time in a Jinchuriki's mental area passes at a different rate than the real world, Bloo. Recall how Naruto met the Biju and their Jinchuriki, yet the entire conversation supposedly took five minutes long?


----------



## Bloo (Sep 19, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The time in a Jinchuriki's mental area passes at a different rate than the real world, Bloo. Recall how Naruto met the Biju and their Jinchuriki, yet the entire conversation supposedly took five minutes long?


That's actually a story thing that took place between Tsunade and Dan (I think that's his name, can't remember for sure) and others. Even still, Bee is under the genjutsu, not Hachibi. I'm sorry, but that is baseless. Even without Tsukyomi, Itachi has the superior feats to secure him the win here.


----------



## Rocky (Sep 19, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Even still, Bee is under the genjutsu, not Hachibi. I'm sorry, but that is baseless.



Biju and jinchuriki share bodies and senses (which how the Hachibi knew what was going on when B was fighting Kisame, despite not "being there."

They could easily share perception of time too. I don't know for sure, but I'm not ruling it out just because.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 19, 2014)

Bloo said:


> That's actually a story thing that took place between Tsunade and Dan (I think that's his name, can't remember for sure) and others. Even still, Bee is under the genjutsu, not Hachibi. I'm sorry, but that is baseless. Even without Tsukyomi, Itachi has the superior feats to secure him the win here.


What 'superior feats'? Bee faces down two Biju and holds his own, tearing an entire forest down and surviving against the Ten-Tails itself. He guts a MS Sasuke like a fish. And again, the manga flat out states that genjutsu is useless on a Perfect Jinchuriki, so Gyuki would always be able to break Bee out. The only way he wouldn't is if said genjutsu affects bot Bee and Gyuki at the same time.


----------



## ueharakk (Sep 19, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Considering that Bee was caught in Itachi's genjutsu for quite a few panels before he was broken free of it, how is Hachibi going to break Bee out when it lasts a second?



Bijuu experience reality through their jinchuriki.  If bee experiences reality at 1 second/72hours normal speed, then so does the hachibi and therefore bee has all that time to get snapped out of it.

Also, Bee and the hachibi only noticed he was in genjutsu after itachi disappeared into the crows because it was a deception genjutsu.  As soon as bee and the hachibi realized they were under the affects, he was snapped out in such a short timeframe that itachiʻs thrown shuriken barely even moved.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 19, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> If bee gets hit with amaterasu, he cuts off a tail and pops out of it.


Last time he didn't have the composure to do it. Why would he have it this time ? Even if he does, Itachi shoots him right after he emerges, or before, or just jumps in with Susano'o and chops the tentacle into little pieces.



> If he gets hit by tsukuyomi, the hachibi breaks him out of it. Bee at best loses a tail while itachiʻs chakra takes a huge dip.


Partner method doesn't work with Tsukiyomi, as it takes an instant to put you in a coma. Hachibee won't have the time to react.



> So bee should handily win.



B literally has no shot at this. 0.
Not only Itachi is portrayed superior, he has 3 techniques that allows him to one shot B.



Rocky said:


> Biju and jinchuriki share bodies and senses (which how the Hachibi knew what was going on when B was fighting Kisame, despite not "being there."
> 
> They could easily share perception of time too. I don't know for sure, but I'm not ruling it out just because.



Tsukiyomi is Itachi's domain. I think he decides who is in there and who isn't.
Besides, if Hachibee is in there with B, then he gets tortured by Itachi as well. He needs to be outside to be able to help B and if he isn't, then he can't help B. IF he is inside, he gets mindfucked along with B, so he can't help him.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Sep 19, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Bee should handily win this.
> 
> Narutoʻs statement about bee getting oneshot by amaterasu or tsukuyomi is conclusively false and only applicable to naruto as bee has already taken amaterasu and survived.  If bee gets hit with amaterasu, he cuts off a tail and pops out of it. If he gets hit by tsukuyomi, the hachibi breaks him out of it. Bee at best loses a tail while itachiʻs chakra takes a huge dip.
> 
> .




Bee only survived amatarasu because sasuke cut off his tentacle, so that doesn't make naruto's claim false.
if itachi hits bee with amatarasu and doesn't cut off bee's tentical he would die.



and naruto not knowing about the circumstances of how bee survived amatarasu doesn't equate to him being wrong for thinking a tsukiyomi would still down him regardless of him being a perfect jin. 
I don't see how bee surviving amatarasu would make the entire statement false, especially if he survived under circumstances that wasn't created by him, had he cut off his own tentacle, then i could see your point, but even then that wouldn't automatically make naruto's claim about tsukiyomi false either.



Bee's perception of time would be altered by the genjutsu, so im not seeing how hachibi perception of time would be alter unless he was under the effects of the jutsu himself.


all in all itachi wins this mid to high difficulty because he is a giant target for all of itachi's ms moves, totsuka would also be extremely problematic for the hachibi.
bee's only shot at winning is creating a large amount of space and spamming bijudama's but given how he fights in base i doubt he would opt for this stragety


----------



## SSMG (Sep 19, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> people are really trying to argue bee is faster then aye? lmaooooooo
> 
> 
> the same bee who couldn't hit itachi while he was back turned and preoccupied with kcm naruto



We have direct feats putting bee at the least on par with eis v2 speed.. and i hope you realize your example doesnt negate this right?


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 19, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> .
> 
> Jiraiya had intent to kill Pain. Didn't go for SM till halfway through the fight. Kakashi had intent to Pain, didn't use Kamui till the end in defense. Kakashi had intent to kill Kakuzu and Hidan but didn't use Kamui. Madara had intent to kill the 4 division but didn't go out of his way, merely played around. Chunnin exams had a ton of intent to kill. Most Akatsuki fights were intent to kill except against jins and when Gai wanted to capture Kisame. The whole war arc has been to kill Obito and then Madara.
> 
> In character is intent to kill for shinobi. Your talking bloodlusted which isn't the case here.



i guess you deserve 2 of these   

read what you wrote. you just said madara intended to kill but merely played around thats a paradox of epic proportions. Its like saying madara took the gokage seriously before PS. 
which he really didnt considering the difference in level between fighting with clones and PS. 

You will notice with intention to kill hashirama someone on his level he goes straight to using it however against flies he doesnt. Also note intending to kill an enemy does automatically suggest haxx techniques like i have stated it depends who the enemy is. 

as for kakashi thats because too much risk in using his only 1 shot kill move. if he missed or both didnt die his team would have been slaughtered with him on the ground. 
Dont generalize in such a silly manner. intent to kill doesnt always mean strongest techs first. 


what i did say is itachi with the intention to kill killer bee would resort to using amaterasu sooner than later. 
1 )because while it carries risk he can keep fighting with the risk 
2) because lesser techniques wont do much to his enemy. 

example of how killer bee enka master knew killer bee wasnt serious against kisame: he clearly said bee is only using 7 tails he doesnt even take his enemy seriously. If killer bee knew who his enemy was do you think he would have started like that?

now to kill sakura itachi only need a kunai. Why would he use amaterasu?? even bloodlusted he wouldnt use amaterasu because he would know he doesnt need to 

the level of the enemy matters. however implying most fights have been intent to kill isnt true. 
kakashi against obito had him dead in his sights and went for a punch Vs a raikir when he was trapped in box land. Intent to kill would dictate punching a hole in obito. Which didnt happen.


----------



## ueharakk (Sep 19, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Last time he didn't have the composure to do it. Why would he have it this time ? Even if he does, Itachi shoots him right after he emerges, or before, or just jumps in with Susano'o and chops the tentacle into little pieces.


last time, he was trying to trick sasuke and taka into thinking the amaterasu beat him.  Obviously heʻs not going to cut his own tail off if heʻs trying to do that.  This time, he doesnʻt have that agenda, so he slices it off just like he sliced off his tail while being choked and slammed by gedo mazouʻs chakra chains.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Partner method doesn't work with Tsukiyomi, as it takes an instant to put you in a coma. Hachibee won't have the time to react.


Bijuu experience everything through the perception of their jinchuriki.  If Itachi slows down time for bee, the hachibi experiences time slowed down as well, and has all day to snap bee out of it.




Grimmjowsensei said:


> B literally has no shot at this. 0.
> Not only Itachi is portrayed superior, he has 3 techniques that allows him to one shot B.


Itachi is absolutely not portrayed as beeʻs superior, everything in the manga puts itachi completely below bee which is why Kishi brought back itachi with unlimited chakra, an immortal body, no MS side effects, and perfect eyes in order to fight on the same playing field as Bee.



Bkprince33 said:


> Bee only survived amatarasu because sasuke cut off his tentacle, so that doesn't make naruto's claim false.
> if itachi hits bee with amatarasu and doesn't cut off bee's tentical he would die.


Not only does bee just cut his tail off if sasuke isnʻt there to do it, but him surviving amaterasu regardless of the condition proves narutoʻs claim false.





Bkprince33 said:


> and naruto not knowing about the circumstances of how bee survived amatarasu doesn't equate to him being wrong for thinking a tsukiyomi would still down him regardless of him being a perfect jin.
> I don't see how bee surviving amatarasu would make the entire statement false, especially if he survived under circumstances that wasn't created by him, had he cut off his own tentacle, then i could see your point, but even then that wouldn't automatically make naruto's claim about tsukiyomi false either.


Naruto not knowing about the circumstances of how bee survived amaterasu proves that narutoʻs statement isnʻt one that applies to bee.  





Bkprince33 said:


> Bee's perception of time would be altered by the genjutsu, so im not seeing how hachibi perception of time would be alter unless he was under the effects of the jutsu himself.


The hachibi experiences the world through beeʻs perception of reality, if bee perceives time altered so does the hachibi.  




Bkprince33 said:


> all in all itachi wins this mid to high difficulty because he is a giant target for all of itachi's ms moves, totsuka would also be extremely problematic for the hachibi.
> bee's only shot at winning is creating a large amount of space and spamming bijudama's but given how he fights in base i doubt he would opt for this stragety


Totsuka isnʻt a problem for the hachibi, Bee in that form is far faster than a living itachi using a V4 susanoo, and totsuka has limited range.  Then thereʻs the fact that bee has 10 apendages to fight and restrain itachiʻs susanoo with, none of which are required to fire a bijuudama and what does base beeʻs fighting style have to do with his fighting style in full bijuu mode?


----------



## IchLiebe (Sep 19, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> i guess you deserve 2 of these
> 
> read what you wrote. you just said madara intended to kill but merely played around thats a paradox of epic proportions. Its like saying madara took the gokage seriously before PS.
> which he really didnt considering the difference in level between fighting with clones and PS.



Madara was playing and fully intended to kill. He even dropped 2 meteors. But he didn't start with that nor did he start with susanoo. Madara did alot to kill the kages and was surprised they lived.



> You will notice with intention to kill hashirama someone on his level he goes straight to using it however against flies he doesnt. Also note intending to kill an enemy does automatically suggest haxx techniques like i have stated it depends who the enemy is.



We didn't see the start of the fight. 



> as for kakashi thats because too much risk in using his only 1 shot kill move. if he missed or both didnt die his team would have been slaughtered with him on the ground.
> Dont generalize in such a silly manner. intent to kill doesnt always mean strongest techs first.



When has Itachi ever used amaterasu the way your saying? He just comes out with it? Bullshit, he had his vision for 10 years while Sasuke went blind in a month. He didn't use MS as easily as you say.



> what i did say is itachi with the intention to kill killer bee would resort to using amaterasu sooner than later.
> 1 )because while it carries risk he can keep fighting with the risk
> 2) because lesser techniques wont do much to his enemy.



You suggested Itachi starts with it.



Icegaze said:


> @ARGUS sick itachi has amaterasu and used it twice in quick succession what makes u think with the intention to kill he does start with that.
> unless you have any feats suggesting he can get out of LoS in time he gets cooked.





> example of how killer bee enka master knew killer bee wasnt serious against kisame: he clearly said bee is only using 7 tails he doesnt even take his enemy seriously. If killer bee knew who his enemy was do you think he would have started like that?



And Bee fully intended to kill Kisame there as shown by trying to put a pencil through him, then a raiton sword, and trying to stab him.



> now to kill sakura itachi only need a kunai. Why would he use amaterasu?? even bloodlusted he wouldnt use amaterasu because he would know he doesnt need to



I agree.



> the level of the enemy matters. however implying most fights have been intent to kill isnt true.
> kakashi against obito had him dead in his sights and went for a punch Vs a raikir when he was trapped in box land. Intent to kill would dictate punching a hole in obito. Which didnt happen.



Kakashi didn't have full intent to kill. When he got a full chance to raikiri him, he stopped at right before he put it through Obito's skull. Then later he decides he has to kill Obito and puts a raikiri through his heart.

Intent to kill is normal for shinobi. They are trained killers and in the first 10 chapters Zabuza even mocks team 7 saying if you haven't killed then you're not a shinobi.


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## Dr. White (Sep 19, 2014)

Amaterasu = GG
Tsukuyomi = GG
Totsuka No Tsurigi = GG

Itachi wins Mid to High Diff.

To make a long story short.


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## Deleted member 175252 (Sep 20, 2014)

Double layered genjutus + tsukoyomi + totsuka rape kills bee.


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## Icegaze (Sep 20, 2014)

and hahhhaahahhahah at a poster who said bee can turn on and off his cloak to get rid of amaterasu. looolz grasping at straws is an understatement 

V2 has never been implied to boost bee speed. kisame had no issues with his speed why would itachi??
V2 in fact probably makes bee slower, since he visibly gets more bulky. 

Bee has 0 chance of avoiding amaterasu and everytime in order to prevent death he must transform and severe a tail. A very dull version of oral rebirth if you ask me and one which consumes chakra. 

bee cannot use said tactic more than once. by the second time itachi uses totsuka and seals bee. the end. 

bee can neither avoid totsuka or amaterasu both of which will be used before BD. considering to use BD bee must transform to hachibi which makes him a massive target.


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## Bkprince33 (Sep 20, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Not only does bee just cut his tail off if sasuke isnʻt there to do it, but him surviving amaterasu regardless of the condition proves narutoʻs claim false.



If that was the case why didn't bee cut off his own tail in the manga? why gamble on sasuke to do it?
hachibii was clearly in pain and wasn't composed enough to do so.


so lets say last week you jumped off a roof and you survived because there was a giant cushion for you to land on, and this week there is no cushion, and i tell you if you jump off this roof you will die.

Does this make my statement false just because you survived jumping off the roof last week under a certain circumstance?





ueharakk said:


> Naruto not knowing about the circumstances of how bee survived amaterasu proves that narutoʻs statement isnʻt one that applies to bee.




That's a interesting point of view you got, unfortunately the manga tells it differently.

Bee didn't even retcon his statement or give naruto a tip on how to survive the technique.

not only that but bee has never went up against tsukiyomi so you have no evidence to conclude that portion of naruto statement is false.









ueharakk said:


> The hachibi experiences the world through beeʻs perception of reality, if bee perceives time altered so does the hachibi.




if this was true how come the hachibi doesn't also get caught in the same illusion as bee? when bee was in genjutsu his perception of reality was altered yet the hachibi's wasn't.

hence why he was able to snap bee out of his illusion. 



ueharakk said:


> Totsuka isnʻt a problem for the hachibi, Bee in that form is far faster than a living itachi using a V4 susanoo, and totsuka has limited range.  Then thereʻs the fact that bee has 10 apendages to fight and restrain itachiʻs susanoo with, none of which are required to fire a bijuudama and what does base beeʻs fighting style have to do with his fighting style in full bijuu mode?



If minato can cut threw one of bee's appendages i don't see them being a problem for totsuka or susano.

Base bee's fighting style means bee will be in range when susano comes into play, as they will engage in close combat so I'm not seeing your point in bringing up totsuka's limited range. Perhaps bee with full knowledge would attempt to create some space between them and spam bijudama but he has no knowledge here


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## ueharakk (Sep 20, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> If that was the case why didn't bee cut off his own tail in the manga? why gamble on sasuke to do it?
> hachibii was clearly in pain and wasn't composed enough to do so.


He didnʻt cut his tail off in the manga because his goal was to trick taka into believing he was dead.  Obviously if he cuts off his own tentacle, never happens.  He didnʻt gamble on sasuke doing it, he put sasuke in a position where his only way of saving karin was to cut beeʻs tentacle off, and if for some reason bee couldnʻt get sasuke to do it, he would have done it himself rather than get defeated by amaterasu.



Bkprince33 said:


> so lets say last week you jumped off a roof and you survived because there was a giant cushion for you to land on, and this week there is no cushion, and i tell you if you jump off this roof you will die.
> 
> Does this make my statement false just because you survived jumping off the roof last week under a certain circumstance?


Obviously it doesnʻt make your statement false, but that has nothing to do with your argument since narutoʻs statement had no condition.  

The correct analogy would be you not knowing if thereʻs a cushion for you to land on, and then making the claim "if you jump off this roof you will die".   So no, Naruto claiming conditionlessly that if you are hit with amaterasu itʻs over does in no way apply to bee.







Bkprince33 said:


> That's a interesting point of view you got, unfortunately the manga tells it differently.
> 
> Bee didn't even retcon his statement or give naruto a tip on how to survive the technique.
> 
> *not only that but bee has never went up against tsukiyomi so you have no evidence to conclude that portion of naruto statement is false.*


The fact that half of narutoʻs statement is false means that narutoʻs statement doesnʻt apply to bee.  

Then thereʻs the fact that the bolded works both ways, bee nor naruto have ever gone up against tsukuyomi so how would narutoʻs statement apply to bee?  

Finally, my argument about narutoʻs statement was not really to show that his stance on tsukuyomi vs bee is false, itʻs to show that tsukuyomi vs bee isnʻt necessarily true.  And therefore the argument for tsukuyomi not working on bee comes from a different argument.











Bkprince33 said:


> if this was true how come the hachibi doesn't also get caught in the same illusion as bee? when bee was in genjutsu his perception of reality was altered yet the hachibi's wasn't.


The hachibi did get caught in the same illusion as bee as in he perceived the external world the way bee perceived it.  thatʻs the entire reason why he only snapped bee out of it after bee recognized he was in an illusion.  If the hachibi didnʻt perceive reality through beeʻs eyes, he would snap bee out of the illusion regardless if bee recognized he was in one or not.



Bkprince33 said:


> If minato can cut threw one of bee's appendages i don't see them being a problem for totsuka or susano.


When did my arguments suggests that totsuka or susanoo donʻt have the power to cut through beeʻs tails?  Totsuka or susanoo arenʻt going to cut them because unlike minato who moves faster than people like Ei, they get wrapped up and bound like what happened to son goku.



Bkprince33 said:


> Base bee's fighting style means bee will be in range when susano comes into play, as they will engage in close combat so I'm not seeing your point in bringing up totsuka's limited range. Perhaps bee with full knowledge would attempt to create some space between them and spam bijudama but he has no knowledge here


Wait so bee is going to push itachi to use a V4 susanoo with just his base arsenal?  No V1, V2, no full bijuu?  If beeʻs so powerful that itachi needs V4 susanoo to beat him in base, then that just proves that unrestricted Bee mops the floor with itachi.  

Do you even know how long it takes itachi to turn his susanoo into a V4?  How long it takes him to bring totsuka out, and how much that hinders his mobility?  Even if for some crazy reason itachi tries to go V4 against base bee, be just enters V1/V2 gets the hell away from there and quad bijuudamas itachi out of existence.


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## Bkprince33 (Sep 20, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> He didnʻt cut his tail off in the manga because his goal was to trick taka into believing he was dead.  Obviously if he cuts off his own tentacle, never happens.  He didnʻt gamble on sasuke doing it, he put sasuke in a position where his only way of saving karin was to cut beeʻs tentacle off, and if for some reason bee couldnʻt get sasuke to do it, he would have done it himself rather than get defeated by amaterasu.



While that was his goal, that doesn't prove that he could cut his tail off himself.


What do you have to support this? bee getting sasuke to cut off his own tail saved his life and allowed him to escape yes but you say it as if he had other options when the manga doesn't indicate this.

the manga clearly shows the hachibi in pain.



ueharakk said:


> Obviously it doesnʻt make your statement false, but that has nothing to do with your argument since narutoʻs statement had no condition.
> 
> The correct analogy would be you not knowing if thereʻs a cushion for you to land on, and then making the claim "if you jump off this roof you will die".   So no, Naruto claiming conditionlessly that if you are hit with amaterasu itʻs over does in no way apply to bee.




actually no, i used the correct analogy the first time as, Sasuke using chidori esu was bee's cushion.  

whether you believe he could of survived another way is a matter of opinion, but the manga showed bee using sasuke to escape amatarasu and that same circumstance wasn't present when naruto made his statement.






ueharakk said:


> The fact that half of narutoʻs statement is false means that narutoʻs statement doesnʻt apply to bee.
> 
> Then thereʻs the fact that the bolded works both ways, bee nor naruto have ever gone up against tsukuyomi so how would narutoʻs statement apply to bee?



The fact that the condition that saved bee's life last time is not present makes naruto's statement true actually, because if sasuke didn't cut bees tentical he would have died, the author made no indication that bee could remove his own tail after being struck by amatarasu, nor did he have bee retcon the statement in anyway shape or form.

A perfect jinchiruki has been affected by sharingon genjutsu on panel, and tsukiyomi has been stated to work around the partner method so most of the evidence point's toward tsukiyomi working on bee.


if we try to paraphrase the author, it would be weird to have bee not retcon naruto's statement about amatarasu or tsukiyomi, since he according to you, would able to survive it even without sasuke cutting his tentical and has broken a ms genjutsu on panel already.


Why would kishi make such a big deal out of itachi using these moves if bee and naruto could by pass them so easily?



ueharakk said:


> Finally, my argument about narutoʻs statement was not really to show that his stance on tsukuyomi vs bee is false, itʻs to show that tsukuyomi vs bee isnʻt necessarily true.  And therefore the argument for tsukuyomi not working on bee comes from a different argument.




i mean i understand what your trying to say, it's a topic thats been debated many times before but the evidence stacks in favor of tsukiyomi working on bee.






ueharakk said:


> The hachibi did get caught in the same illusion as bee as in he perceived the external world the way bee perceived it.  thatʻs the entire reason why he only snapped bee out of it after bee recognized he was in an illusion.  If the hachibi didnʻt perceive reality through beeʻs eyes, he would snap bee out of the illusion regardless if bee recognized he was in one or not.



Im not sure what your trying to say here could you clarify it a bit more?

when itachi used genjutsu on bee, bee did not realize he was in a illusion, and the hachibi had to break him out of it.



ueharakk said:


> When did my arguments suggests that totsuka or susanoo donʻt have the power to cut through beeʻs tails?  Totsuka or susanoo arenʻt going to cut them because unlike minato who moves faster than people like Ei, they get wrapped up and bound like what happened to son boku.



Itachi could turn susano off then turn it back on, use amatarasu or cast tsukiyomi or cut the tenticals with his own kunai.

 not only that but attempting to restrain itachi's susano could result in him getting pierced with tosuka, itachi was able to cut oro's snake mid strike, he's not going to stand there and let bee restrain him.



ueharakk said:


> Wait so bee is going to push itachi to use a V4 susanoo with just his base arsenal?  No V1, V2, no full bijuu?  If beeʻs so powerful that itachi needs V4 susanoo to beat him in base, then that just proves that unrestricted Bee mops the floor with itachi.



No, I'm saying bee will always be in range of totsuka because his base fighting style requires him to be close, he won't engage itachi in base and run away to transform and use long range bijudama.




ueharakk said:


> Do you even know how long it takes itachi to turn his susanoo into a V4?  How long it takes him to bring totsuka out, and how much that hinders his mobility?  Even if for some crazy reason itachi tries to go V4 against base bee, be just enters V1/V2 gets the hell away from there and quad bijuudamas itachi out of existence.




Naruto and Deva path was to each other

Naruto and Deva path was to each other

apparently not that long, here he did it and stabbed nagato in one panel.

what makes you think it greatly hinders his mobility to the point where he wouldn't be able to hit a large target like the hachibi?  

bee isn't the type to run away and create distance with no knowledge, he charged straight at nagato despite seeing what he did to naruto.


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## IchLiebe (Sep 20, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> and hahhhaahahhahah at a poster who said bee can turn on and off his cloak to get rid of amaterasu. looolz grasping at straws is an understatement



Use the chakra to push it off of him like the juubi did.



> V2 has never been implied to boost bee speed. kisame had no issues with his speed why would itachi??
> V2 in fact probably makes bee slower, since he visibly gets more bulky.



V2 is faster than v1 which is faster than base. See Naruto fight Sasuke in the valley of the end. Each time Naruto got more Kurama chakra, he got significantly faster. And v2 Naruto almost blitzed Deva pain.



> Bee has 0 chance of avoiding amaterasu and everytime in order to prevent death he must transform and severe a tail. A very dull version of oral rebirth if you ask me and one which consumes chakra.



Chakra arm to take it off the body and then release the chakra and amaterasu is gone like the juubi did.



> bee cannot use said tactic more than once. by the second time itachi uses totsuka and seals bee. the end.
> 
> bee can neither avoid totsuka or amaterasu both of which will be used before BD. considering to use BD bee must transform to hachibi which makes him a massive target.



By the second time Itachi's dead.


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## ueharakk (Sep 20, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> While that was his goal, that doesn't prove that he could cut his tail off himself.


Sure it doesnʻt, but obviously thereʻs no burden of proof on my to prove with 100% certainty that he could cut his tail off on his own because no argument can bear that burden of proof.  What it does show is that itʻs far more likely that not that he could have done that if he wanted to do so, and him casually doing it while being chokeslammed by rinnegan madaraʻs chakra chains just support my argument.

Now if you want to claim that he COULDNʻT cut his tail off himself, Iʻd like you to show by what reasoning?  Can you PROVE that he couldnʻt cut his tail off himself?  



Bkprince33 said:


> What do you have to support this? bee getting sasuke to cut off his own tail saved his life and allowed him to escape yes but you say it as if he had other options when the manga doesn't indicate this.
> 
> the manga clearly shows the hachibi in pain.


The manga does indicate this, the hachibi casually cutting off his tail while being choke slammed by gedou mazouʻs chains indicates he could have done it himself.
Bee not making a statement like "if he didnʻt cut my tail off, Iʻd be screwed" after the fight indicates that he had other options.
The fact that bee had the composure to aim the tail at karin and instantly transfer to it when sasuke cut it off shows that he wasnʻt just flailing around in pain.

The fact that beeʻs tentacle remained as the hachibi while still ignited and on fire, eventually turned into bee, and only transformed into a tentacle after GM sucked out all of its chakra shows how much amaterasu affects bee.





Bkprince33 said:


> actually no, i used the correct analogy the first time as, Sasuke using chidori esu was bee's cushion.
> 
> whether you believe he could of survived another way is a matter of opinion, but the manga showed bee using sasuke to escape amatarasu and that same circumstance wasn't present when naruto made his statement.


Naruto didnʻt know sasuke used chidori eiso, so no the analogy is incorrect.  
then thereʻs the fact that if you want to say chidori eiso is the factor thatʻs not present when naruto made the statement, then beeʻs not in full hachibi form or any of his cloaked forms when naruto makes the statement, and therefore by that logic, the statement does not apply to bee in his forms.






Bkprince33 said:


> The fact that the condition that saved bee's life last time is not present makes naruto's statement true actually, because if sasuke didn't cut bees tentical he would have died, the author made no indication that bee could remove his own tail after being struck by amatarasu, nor did he have bee retcon the statement in anyway shape or form.


The condition lthat saved beeʻs life last time was his tentacle got severed.  Unless naruto knows its impossible to sever beeʻs tentacle then no, narutoʻs statement has nothing to do with bee.  Bee has explicitly been shown to sever his own tentacle, the author made it explicitly clear that beeʻs intention was to trick sasuke and kumo into thinking heʻd been captured and none of that would have happened if bee just severed his own tentacle.  



Bkprince33 said:


> A perfect jinchiruki has been affected by sharingon genjutsu on panel, and tsukiyomi has been stated to work around the partner method so most of the evidence point's toward tsukiyomi working on bee.


Tsukiyomiʻs statement about partner method is the traditional partner method in which a shinobi runs up to you and snaps you out of it.  Perfect jinchuriki partner method has the beast always connected to you by a chakra link, and they experience everything the jinchuriki experiences.  Sharingan genjutsu obviously affects a perfect jinchuriki before their bijuu snaps them out of it.  

Then thereʻs the fact that tsukuyomiʻs hype about not being counterable is made 150 chapters before Beeʻs hype about perfect jinchuriki > genjutsu.  





Bkprince33 said:


> if we try to paraphrase the author, it would be weird to have bee not retcon naruto's statement about amatarasu or tsukiyomi, since he according to you, would able to survive it even without sasuke cutting his tentical and has broken a ms genjutsu on panel already.


Why?  Are all statements made in this manga instantly corrected by a third party source?  




Bkprince33 said:


> Why would kishi make such a big deal out of itachi using these moves if bee and naruto could by pass them so easily?


Who said Naruto could get passed them?  Naruto is the one whoʻs vulnerable to both of them, he doesnʻt have beeʻs tentacle trick for amaterasu and heʻs not a perfect jinchuriki for tsukuyomi.  Then guess who Itachi aims his MS jutsu at?  NARUTO.  Thatʻs kishi telling the reader that Naruto is in danger of those techniques.






Bkprince33 said:


> i mean i understand what your trying to say, it's a topic thats been debated many times before but the evidence stacks in favor of tsukiyomi working on bee.


The evidence is completely one sided in bee breaking out of tsukuyomi as Iʻve already explained.






Bkprince33 said:


> Im not sure what your trying to say here could you clarify it a bit more?
> 
> when itachi used genjutsu on bee, bee did not realize he was in a illusion, and the hachibi had to break him out of it.


If the hachibi didnʻt perceive reality through beeʻs perception of it, he would notice beeʻs in a genjutsu before bee notices it since the hachibi isnʻt under the affect of genjutsu.  Bee DID realize he was in an illusion, and itʻs only after he realized it that the hachibi broke him out of the illusion.





Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi could turn susano off then turn it back on, use amatarasu or cast tsukiyomi or cut the tenticals with his own kunai.


And while itachi is doing that, he gets ended by a bijuudama laser.  And lol Itachi doesnʻt have hirashin speed, he doesnʻt get minatoʻs feat of being able to cut these tentacles with kunai nor has he shown the strength feat that minato pulled off when he cut the tentacle.  It gets even worse since there are 8 tentacles and minato only cut one, itachi gets caught and squeezed into a bloody pulp.




Bkprince33 said:


> not only that but attempting to restrain itachi's susano could result in him getting pierced with tosuka, itachi was able to cut oro's snake mid strike, he's not going to stand there and let bee restrain him.


My argument was under the assumption that itachi is trying to do all of that, so none of what youʻve said is relevant to countering my point.  Plus, itachi will have to pierce beeʻs body in order to seal him, else heʻd just pierce hydra and that would seal oro up, he wouldnʻt have had to wait till oro was out of it.





Bkprince33 said:


> No, I'm saying bee will always be in range of totsuka because his base fighting style requires him to be close, he won't engage itachi in base and run away to transform and use long range bijudama.


Youʻve literally ignored my argument.  Why would Itachi use a V4 susanoo on base bee?  If itachi uses any form of susanoo, beeʻs obviously going to powerup to a tailed state.  Obviously if itachi pulls out his V4 susanoo, bee runs away and transforms since beeʻs greatest offense is long range while itachiʻs isnʻt.







Bkprince33 said:


> Naruto and Deva path was to each other
> 
> Naruto and Deva path was to each other
> 
> ...


Thatʻs extremely long.  He started with skeletal susanoo in the middle of the chapter, and could only pull out V4 after the chibaku tensei exploded.  Why would bee engage any form of susnaoo with his base arsenal? 

It hinders his mobility to the point where he wouldnʻt be able to GET IN RANGE OF HITTING a large target like the hachibi since Itachi himself will have to physically move in order to do so.  MS Sasuke was coughing up blood and falling over after merely holding a V3.  No one has ever moved quickly with an MS susanoo except for edo itachi who has unlimited chakra and no negative affects from MS use, and he only did it with a V2.  You actually believe that bee will chose to engage Itachiʻs V4 susanoo or any susanoo in base?  If thatʻs what you have to believe bee will do, then that pretty shows that bee beats itachi.


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