# Albus Dumbledore vs Darth Vader



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

*Location:* Ministry of Magic.
*Starting Distance:* 30m.
*Incarnation:* Film.
*Scenario:* Both wish to test their power, with intent to kill.
*State:* IC.
*Please read before posting or voting.*

Hands down! Dumbledore would ultimately win. He has a massive amount of magical offenses and defences, not to mention that he turn invisible and apparate at lightning speed. I don't really see what's stopping Dumbledore from transfigurating his Lightsaber into a pocket watch.

Incendio (Fire) is something that I believe would result in the end of Vader, especially considering that Vader's armour would surely melt. Even if Vader unleashes Force Choke, Dumbledore has shown to be spectacularly proficient in wandless magic.

He uses Legilimency to prevent to prevent his thoughts being read and Occlumency to put in false thoughts of Padme into Vader's mind.

*Vader:* "Magic is meaningless next to the power of the Force."
*Dumbledore:* "Imperio! Now dance, Vader! Dance!"

Please back up your arguments or opinions, and debate logically. All comments are warmly welcomed.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Nov 21, 2009)

Vader breaks his neck.

/thread


----------



## Akatora (Nov 21, 2009)

Shounen trinity's top guys >>> Albus


Vader>>> Shounen trinity top guys


----------



## enzymeii (Nov 21, 2009)

Akatora said:


> Shounen trinity's top guys >>> Albus
> 
> 
> Vader>>> Shounen trinity top guys



I have to disagree with the later statement you make... of course I don't know EU so maybe some stuff he does there puts him over city busters like WB, Pain, Ulquiorra, but I haven't seen it.

I think Dumbledore can win.  If he starts getting force-choked, he disapparates behind Vader and uses the killing curse.


----------



## Omnirix (Nov 21, 2009)

enzymeii said:


> I have to disagree with the later statement you make... of course I don't know EU so maybe some stuff he does there puts him over city busters like WB, Pain, Ulquiorra, but I haven't seen it.
> 
> I think Dumbledore can win.  If he starts getting force-choked, *he disapparates behind Vader and uses the killing curse.*



Good luck on doing that with someone that got pre-cog and can choke someone from the other side of the galaxy. GG Dumbledore.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

vader can snap his neck without even moving. a simple neck snap= dumbledore dead. dumbledore is probably below BASE human physically because of his old age, how does he prevent that?


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

We already had movie Vader stomping book Voldemort.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 21, 2009)

Stop with the Harry potter vs Star Wars threads, they all end with Palpatine or Vader winning. Star War>HPverse please stop this Harry Potter Fanboyism and live with it. 

Vader wins with precog and TK because Jedi in EU have pratically lightspeed+ reaction movement and Albus is weak old man who'll have his neck snapped before he can process one thought. You REALLY should do your homework here. Sorry if I come off rude, don't mean too.


----------



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Vader wins with precog and TK because Jedi in EU have pratically lightspeed+ reaction movement and Albus is weak old man who'll have his neck snapped before he can process one thought. You REALLY should do your homework here. Sorry if I come off rude, don't mean too.



Firstly, I never suggested such a thing the realm of EU in the OP, but the films, as:

"There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe." - George Lucas

Vader's precognition is rather brilliant, but I do believe that Dumbledore placing false thoughts into his mind could most probably influence him greatly, especially being those of Padme. I really don't know what's stopping Dumbledore from transfigurating Vader, as he as no knowledge of the art of magic.


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 21, 2009)

perhaps your harry potterverse wank? darth vader immediately snaps dumby's neck. he dies. how can dumbledore even raise his wand?


----------



## Lucaniel (Nov 21, 2009)

Darth Vader compresses him into a tennis-ball sized glob of flesh before Dumbledore can even form a coherent thought.

Massive speed/reactions advantage here, not to mention power and telepathy advantage as well. And strength.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 21, 2009)

Vader was able to survive Palpatime's Force Lightning for a while long enough to take him out despite nature of his suit, Fire is'nt doing anything.

If you think precog and superhuman reflexes won't allow Vader to go first and know what's coming then you are underestimating his force powers. Albus is just a human, Vader is Superhuman. How did you think this would go?


----------



## Stroev (Nov 21, 2009)

Fine, let's say it is movie version of Vader.

They both raise their hands at the same time.

Dumbledore must chant an incantation. Vader must only think. Let's put the peices of the puzzle together.


----------



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

Stroev said:


> They both raise their hands at the same time. Dumbledore must chant an incantation. Vader must only think. Let's put the peices of the puzzle together.



Hey Stroev 

Not exactly, as Dumbledore has shown non-verbal and wandless magic throughout the Harry Potter series. Imagine if Dumbledore uses Imperio?


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Everyone knows Vader wins.


----------



## MovingFlash415 (Nov 21, 2009)

LOL!  That would be a hilarious battle. 

I could see Dumbledore feeling sorry for Darth Vader and deciding to have a chat with him instead of fight.   Ooor, I could see Vader using the force to make things fly, and Dumbledore using magic to make things fly, so they just hurl things at each other for a while.  
Using their respective wand/lightsaber to block.  "May the Schwartz be with you."

Vader could cut Dumbledore's wand and Sword of Gryffindor in halves with his lightsaber. :repstorm
...While Dumbledore could shoot fire at Vader and give him an asthma attack. 

Or they could just skip it and go for a root beer.


----------



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

Dumbledore within this battle would be the equivalent of a God. He can become invisible, create objects out of thin air, can possess others, read minds, mind control, one-hit death offenses, ability to inject life into surrounding objects and to command them, control over natural elements etc.

I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up like this, here.

This is not Yoda we're speaking of, it's Suited-Vader.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Nov 21, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> *Dumbledore within this battle would be the equivalent of a God.* He can become invisible, create objects out of thin air, can possess others, read minds, mind control, one-hit death offenses, ability to inject life into surrounding objects and to command them, control over natural elements etc.
> *
> I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up like this, here.
> *
> This is not Yoda we're speaking of, it's Suited-Vader.





10char


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 21, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Dumbledore within this battle would be the equivalent of a God. He can become invisible, create objects out of thin air, can possess others, read minds, mind control, one-hit death offenses, ability to inject life into surrounding objects and to command them, control over natural elements etc.
> 
> I wouldn't be suprised if it ended up like this, here.
> 
> This is not Yoda we're speaking of, it's Suited-Vader.



WAIT WHAT? LMAO.
From that video, are you implying Vader can't deflect bullets with his lightsabre? that's fucking funny.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Nov 21, 2009)

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Vader VASSSSSSSSSSSSSH is superior.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Nov 21, 2009)

VADER RESPECT THREAD GET


----------



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> WAIT WHAT? LMAO.
> From that video, are you implying Vader can't deflect bullets with his lightsabre? that's fucking funny.



Oh, applogies if I have implied such a thing. I merely wished to imply the substitution of the gun with a wand.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 21, 2009)

This really is simple:

-Vader has faster speed
-Vader has precog
-Vader has better reflexes

So guess how this battle goes:

Vader attacks before Albus can thanks to precog, faster speed and reflexes
Vader kills Albus

Albus can't beat someone faster than him.


----------



## Narcissus (Nov 21, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Dumbledore within this battle would be the equivalent of a God. He can become invisible, create objects out of thin air, can possess others, read minds, mind control, one-hit death offenses, ability to inject life into surrounding objects and to command them, control over natural elements etc.



No, Dumbledore is not a god. He is a low tier magic user. Do you really think that Harry Potter is that powerful when compared to other magic users in fiction? For an extreme example, look at Doctor Strange. The feats you've named are nothing for someone like him.

This is no different from your last HP vs. SW thread. Dumbledore does not have the speed to react to Vader's attacks.

Also, your argument in favor of Dumbledore placing false thoughts into Vader's mind of Padme assumes he has knowledge on Vader, which is not the case. Vader's precog, on the other hand, would alert him of the danger if Dumbledore attempts to use magic, meaning Vader would know to take his wand away.

After that, snapping his neck would be simple.


----------



## Bart (Nov 21, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> No, Dumbledore is not a god. He is a low tier magic user. Do you really think that Harry Potter is that powerful when compared to other magic users in fiction? For an extreme example, look at Doctor Strange. The feats you've named are nothing for someone like him.



Hey Narcissus 

I didn't say he was wholly a god, but within these circumstances, given what he can do. I know that Doctor Strange has show those feats, but I'm not comparing them whatsoever.



Narcissus said:


> Also, your argument in favor of Dumbledore placing false thoughts into Vader's mind of Padme assumes he has knowledge on Vader, which is not the case. Vader's precog, on the other hand, would alert him of the danger if Dumbledore attempts to use magic, meaning Vader would know to take his wand away.



One accomplished in the art of Occlumency are able to delve into an opponents mind and collect memories, ergo, it's possible. Vader would know to take Dumbledore's wand away, as Dumbledore would know to take Vader's Lightsaber away, but we have seen Dumbledore use wandless magic.

Movie Vader hasn't shown any feats of how he would strike at Dumbledore given the 30m distance between them. Also, Dumbledore has shown to be able to teleport at lightning speed and has fast enough reflexes to avoid Avada Kedavra.


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Teleport at lightning speeds?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 21, 2009)

Move over Jplaya Itachi, there is now a new top dog in the OBD.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Nov 21, 2009)

Galen Marek should've killed Vader at the end. Who cares if he was at one with the force at the end. Kill, kill, KILL


----------



## Narcissus (Nov 21, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> Hey Narcissus
> 
> I didn't say he was wholly a god, but within these circumstances, given what he can do. I know that Doctor Strange has show those feats, but I'm not comparing them whatsoever.



You're missing the point. You directly called Dumbledore a god in this fight, yet by comparison to many other magic users in fiction, the HPverse doesn't measure up. I just used Strange as an extreme example. I can give others.



> One accomplished in the art of Occlumency are able to delve into an opponents mind and collect memories, ergo, it's possible.




And it would take far too long for Dumbledore to search Vader's mind and gather those memories. By the time he tried, Vader would have killed him already.




> Vader would know to take Dumbledore's wand away, as Dumbledore would know to take Vader's Lightsaber away, but we have seen Dumbledore use wandless magic.



And Vader can use force attacks without his lightsaber. Or just use the force to control his lightsaber and stab Dumbledore through the back.



> Movie Vader hasn't shown any feats of how he would strike at Dumbledore given the 30m distance between them. Also, Dumbledore has shown to be able to teleport at lightning speed and has fast enough reflexes to avoid Avada Kedavra.





*Spoiler*: _Vader Force Choking_ 




Skip to 3:00 and watch to about 3:50

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkywRUAd0_w[/YOUTUBE]

What does this tell you?




Now where are you getting this "teleporting at lightning speed" from? Because IIRC you tried this argument before and your source was nothing but baseless hyperbole. And can you tell me just how fast Avada Kedavra is? Because Harry, an mere adolescent wizard, was able to react to it as well.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 21, 2009)

EU darth vader is all the stars and and suns times powerfull than book dumbledore, who is a good deal more powerfull than movie dumbledore who in turn has much better feats than movie Vader.

Partially because darth vader, who is clearly weakned by the lava drop, belongs to a seventies or something movie, and dumbledore is from this side of the nineties


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Movie Vader would still Force Choke him or TK him to hell.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 21, 2009)

What? No, it might have been a really long time ago since I last watched the original trilogy, but movie vader has no feats that would stop movie or book dumbledore from exploding his head


----------



## Fang (Nov 21, 2009)

Movie Vader can Force Choke you kilometers away without using his hands with just his line of sight.


----------



## Emerald Chaos (Nov 22, 2009)

I think I recall Darth Vader blocking a laser with his hand in the old movies...


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 22, 2009)

Yes, against Solo.


----------



## Zetta (Nov 22, 2009)

Dumbledore is not even a high tier mage.

People like Elminster, Gandalf and fucking Doctor Strange have more magic in their left nut than the entire HP-verse.

Not to mention, Vader has pre-cog and was able to choke someone on a different star destroyer (which practically speaking is 100 miles away in space).


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 22, 2009)

That's a fantastic range which I didn't remember, but not really relevant. While he is, well, range choking him, dumbledore teleports behind him and transfigurates his brain into a raisin.

This being movie vader.


I would like to reiterate for everyone's benefit how EU vader spreads a million dumbledores across the wall like peanut butter


----------



## Bart (Nov 22, 2009)

A wand is far greater than a lightsaber, ergo, it isn't the ultimate weapon. And all it would take would be a transfiguration spell, and we know how vital a Lightsaber is within a battle, especially if one isn't exactly tremendously gifted with the Force such as Yoda or Sidious.

*Dumbledore:*
*1.* Can perform spells at long distance.
*2.* Transfigure Vader's Lghtsaber and other thrown objects, even Vader himself.
*3.* Can apparate at lightning speed.
*4.* Very intelligent.
*5.* Become invisible and avoid detection.
*6.* Unforgivable Curses.
*7.* Inject life into inanimate objects.
*8.* Telekinesis.

All it takes is Avada Kedavra or Imperio and then Vader has surely lost the battle, not forgetting that the starting distance is 30m.


----------



## Zetta (Nov 22, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> A wand is far greater than a lightsaber, ergo, it isn't the ultimate weapon. And all it would take would be a transfiguration spell, and we know how vital a Lightsaber is within a battle, especially if one isn't exactly tremendously gifted with the Force such as Yoda or Sidious.
> 
> *Dumbledore:*
> *1.* Can perform spells at long distance.
> ...



So tell me again what stops Vader from crushing his throat 0,1 seconds into the fight using his jedi thinking speed?

Don't forget that Vader can forsee where Dumbledore will reappear and rechoke.

It doesn't matter how much magic Dumbledore has if he can't use it. Dumbledore, for all his power, is still human. Vader is super human. This fight could be done with before Dumbledore can even form a coherent thought.


----------



## Bart (Nov 28, 2009)

*Can someone answer this please,*

What I fail to understand is that Vader couldn't prevent Luke from falling into the air vent in Bespin, yet Dumbledore prevented Harry from plunging several hundred metres by using Aresto Momentum without a wand, which slows or stops an object down.


----------



## MovingFlash415 (Nov 30, 2009)

Bartallen2 said:


> *Can someone answer this please,*
> 
> What I fail to understand is that Vader couldn't prevent Luke from falling into the air vent in Bespin, yet Dumbledore prevented Harry from plunging several hundred metres by using Aresto Momentum without a wand, which slows or stops an object down.



Good point. 

This probably won't make sense, but then the usual rules do not apply to magic.   It seems to me that it would be easier catching someone if you were standing beneath them, rather than if you were standing above them.  They might drag you down with them.  Vader might have chosen to let Luke fall.  But regardless, that was a _powerful_ bit of magic Dumbledore used to catch Harry.  He did it *without* his wand, which was especially impressive.  

I think he and Yoda might be an interesting match - remember what happened in Episode Three, when Yoda caught and spun the Senator podium and hurled it back at Darth Sidious?  Now I am admittedly not a huge fan of how the newer episodes were composed, but that moment stood out...

I really do think that Dumbledore has more versatility than Darth Vader in terms of techniques, in that he has access to many different types of magic.  He'd excel in ninjutsu and genjutsu.  He and Vader might match in Sage Mode (am I confusing the battle by adding in Naruto? ).  Darth Vader is in his own right very powerful - his magic is more along the lines of a Taijutsu-swordsman specialist, with dabbling in genjutsu. 

Different realms of strength. 

"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 30, 2009)

Zetta said:


> So tell me again what stops Vader from crushing his throat 0,1 seconds into the fight using his jedi thinking speed?
> 
> Don't forget that Vader can forsee where Dumbledore will reappear and rechoke.
> 
> It doesn't matter how much magic Dumbledore has if he can't use it. Dumbledore, for all his power, is still human. Vader is super human. This fight could be done with before Dumbledore can even form a coherent thought.



EU Vader yes. It's not a remotely arguable point.

But we were talking movie vader a while back and that isn't one of his feats.
He can still casts a transfiguration into a boot spell while being choked


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Nov 30, 2009)

if we're limiting Vader only to movie feats then Dumbledore has a chance

if not

then ouch


----------



## Shoddragon (Nov 30, 2009)

in the movie he force choked someone without moving his hands and while talking to someone else. he could also just crush the wand with the force.


----------



## Superior (Nov 30, 2009)

He crushes Dumbledores wand, then his heart, end of fight.


----------



## chickmashine (Dec 28, 2009)

Bartallen, I must admit, some of your threads are really amusing xD

Albus goes for the kill. The light saber is irrellevant from the beginning...

The Force stands no chance against apparating and the blocking curses would probably work xD


----------



## Shoddragon (Dec 28, 2009)

vader still force choked someone kilometers away without moving his arms and with 0 effort.


----------



## paulatreides0 (Dec 28, 2009)

wow...horrible rape thread......i feel sorry for dumbledore

-Vader forcechokes-

anyone seeing a pattern here?


----------



## Rampage (Jan 19, 2010)

Vader rapes hard


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 19, 2010)

Bartallen2 said:


> *Location:* Ministry of Magic.
> *Starting Distance:* 30m.
> *Incarnation:* Film.
> *Scenario:* Both wish to test their power, with intent to kill.
> ...



Ahem.

Long version:

Your color crap is eyesoring. All of his offenses or defenses are irrelevant considering that Vader could just snap his neck with a thought. (Dumbledore hasn't proven to think much faster than me) Vader has precog, clairvoyance and reaction speed enough to deflect blaster bolts (lower feat) Lightning speed. Cute. What's stopping him is common sense. Also the fact that his head will be chopped off by a lightsabre boomerang attack. Also that lightsabres are made of force relevant crystals or in HP language MAGIC STONES. He can't transfigurate it for the same reason he can't transfigurate Voldemorts wand. 

A campfire spell isn't going to tickle Darth Vader, it's not an attack. His armor won't melt. 

Darth Vader doesn't care about Padme anymore. Also, you confused Occlumency with Legilimency. Darth Vader is a far more accomplished telepath than Dumbledore. he'd make him see Grendel and give him a deadly boner. Maybe even the average Sith/<jedi could pull this feat.

Vader isn't going to fall for a spell that 14 year old Harry Potter could resist.

Short version:


Sazabi24 said:


> Vader breaks his neck.
> 
> /thread



Also, EU is canon dipsat


----------



## Bart (Jan 19, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> All of his offenses or defenses are irrelevant considering that Vader could just snap his neck with a thought. (Dumbledore hasn't proven to think much faster than me) Vader has precog, clairvoyance and reaction speed enough to deflect blaster bolts (lower feat) Lightning speed. Cute. What's stopping him is common sense. Also the fact that his head will be chopped off by a lightsabre boomerang attack. Also that lightsabres are made of force relevant crystals or in HP language MAGIC STONES. He can't transfigurate it for the same reason he can't transfigurate Voldemorts wand.



Hey Aokiji 

A lightsaber boomerang attack that Luke dodged in ROTJ, and let's not forget Dumbledore can teleport and become invisible. Transfigure can work on the hilt of the Lightsaber, as AOTC had shown that the hilt can be cut to make the Lightsaber unusable.



Aokiji said:


> A campfire spell isn't going to tickle Darth Vader, it's not an attack. His armor won't melt.



A camp fire? Here.


----------



## Sazabi24 (Jan 19, 2010)

Bartallen2 said:


> Hey Aokiji
> 
> A lightsaber boomerang attack that Luke dodged in ROTJ, and let's not forget Dumbledore can teleport and become invisible. Transfigure can work on the hilt of the Lightsaber, as AOTC had shown that the hilt can be cut to make the Lightsaber unusable.



And Darth Vader has Precog.



> A camp fire? Here.



That camp fire is not melting durasteel, and Jedi can use the force to protect themselves from extreme heat, as shown by ROTS.


----------



## Bart (Jan 20, 2010)

Sazabi24 said:


> That camp fire is not melting durasteel, and Jedi can use the force to protect themselves from extreme heat, as shown by ROTS.



Yes, I know that, as it was first shown by Qui-gonn in PM, but it's obvious that the lava would have done damage if it had come into direct contact with both Obi-Wan and Anakin.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Jan 20, 2010)

> A lightsaber boomerang attack that Luke dodged in ROTJ, and let's not forget Dumbledore can teleport and become invisible. Transfigure can work on the hilt of the Lightsaber, as AOTC had shown that the hilt can be cut to make the Lightsaber unusable



Luke Skywalker could still augment himself physically with the force as shown with that Force Jump he does and gets an "Impressive" from Vader. He also has basic Jedi powers like precog. 

I'm probably wasting my time but it does'nt matter what Albus can do because he'll be taken out before he can do it, having a 100 or 1000 spells is useless when your opponent is faster and has two or so abilities that can end it, in this case precog and telekenesis. Vader was just 80% of the emperor in force output.


----------



## Aokiji (Jan 20, 2010)

Bartallen2 said:


> Hey Aokiji
> 
> A lightsaber boomerang attack that Luke dodged in ROTJ, and let's not forget Dumbledore can teleport and become invisible. Transfigure can work on the hilt of the Lightsaber, as AOTC had shown that the hilt can be cut to make the Lightsaber unusable.
> 
> ...



Dumbledore isn't Luke. He's too slow. The crystal is IN the hilt to my knowledge. Considering the thing that cut it was ANOTHER lightsabre, your argument is weak.

And I doubt movie scenes are going to make it....


----------



## Bart (Jan 20, 2010)

Aokiji said:


> Dumbledore isn't Luke. He's too slow. The crystal is IN the hilt to my knowledge. Considering the thing that cut it was ANOTHER lightsabre, your argument is weak.
> 
> And I doubt movie scenes are going to make it....



Awesome post, Aokiji, and I do agree that Dumbledore may be slower than Luke, but he has shown quite a large amount of reflexes and proficiency with magic coupled with a wand, and in the OP I said that the incarnations are that of the films.


----------



## Nimademe (Jan 20, 2010)

Dumbledore creates a tower to spam Vader from, only to fall off it spread eagle.


----------



## Bart (Jan 20, 2010)

Nimademe said:


> Dumbledore creates a tower to spam Vader from, only to fall off it spread eagle.



Aresto Momentum


----------

