# Minato vs Edo Itachi



## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

*Location:* Open field

*Distance:* 30 metres

*Knowledge:* Full

*Mindset:* To capture for Itachi, to kill/seal for Minato.

*Restrictions:* Kyubi.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

hussain please do not reply 
we all agree
minato wins casually 

Op make it capture for minato and give itachi his genjutsu. make it a fight. this isnt one 

not exaggeratign here, but considering how casually minato can start the fight with kunai spam

it just isnt fair. Nothing stops him from using his rasenflash technique which itachi will need to camp in susanoo to not die. 

as for counters to susanoo. dropping gama on it, should do some damage. then there is the awful fact that if a kunai so happens to be inside itachi susanoo, itachi dies laughably


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

This is Living Minato btw.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

living or dead 
same thing outside kyuubi related stuff 

edo itachi is itachi with no stamina issues. minato once he has tagged itachi can seal him with a basic seal used by fodders during the war.


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

All right, I've unrestricted Genjutsu.

Think that this should be fairly balanced since Itachi's gimped by having to capture Minato but he has an advantage of being an Edo at the same time.


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## Nikushimi (Dec 3, 2014)

Either a draw with Shiki Fujin, or Edo Itachi hits him with Tsukuyomi first, or Edo Itachi outlasts and _then_ finishes Minato.

The first two outcomes are probably about equally likely; the third, not so much. But there's really no way Minato can win this.


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## ARGUS (Dec 3, 2014)

Edo Itachi wins this 

 - All of Minatos kunais and marked locations are located by his sharingan and set ablaze with amaterasu therefore completely hindering minatos use of FTG here 

 - Minato here has no way whatsoever to bypass any susanoo above V2 here, his rasengans are not doing shit, and teleporting itachi out of his susanoo is also not happening when itachi can instantly form his susanoo again, to prevent himself from getting marked, and minato attempting to close the distance against itachi would just lead him to falling prey to tsukuyomi

 - Summons are non factor, when they alll get ablaze with amaterasu, as once minatos FTG is covered, itachi uses his V4 susanooo to cleave minato in half

 - Minato lacking the way of even scratching susanoo here can also allow itachi to simply outlast him, as the longer the battle proceeds, the worse it gets for minato

 - KA is also something that minato has no counters for, it's jus a GG


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## Ryuzaki (Dec 3, 2014)

They are both equally matched, but given the circumstances, Itachi would lose more times than not.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> All right, I've unrestricted Genjutsu.
> 
> Think that this should be fairly balanced since Itachi's gimped by having to capture Minato but he has an advantage of being an Edo at the same time.



hard to genjutsu someone you would have difficulty tracking. madara with 5 clones had to hold Ei down to genjutsu him. Ei is slower than minato and his movements are far more predictable. With full knowledge minato will know to fight with a clone as well to discourage itachi from using genjutsu. even if he does the clone can simply swap with the oringinal or hirashin the original to safety 

well it is not all that balanced there isnt much itachi can do to stop minato. who even though he is fighting an edo can match him in stamina since minato really isnt using any exhaustive jutsu. 

Then we have the whole being able to throw kunai as fast as kamui wrap and you have itachi struggling to read minato movements. 

genjutus is itachi only shot, this to me would like haku against naruto. itachi would be a stand still object. ok not as bad but essentially, he will be lagging behind. amaterasu which is his fastest jutsu ninjutsu is very slow to minato

@argus you want itachi to waste amaterasu to burn kunai?? minato will just throw more and then more. we have no idea how he threw over 20 against Ei. they were all in that little pouch as well. minato is a kunai spammer, attempting to get rid of tags is not only impossible it is wasteful. Or minato can just notice what itachi is doing, and minato uses 2 clones to touch every and any surface. what is itahi going to do burn the entire battle field?


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> hard to genjutsu someone you would have difficulty tracking. madara with 5 clones had to hold Ei down to genjutsu him. Ei is slower than minato and his movements are far more predictable. With full knowledge minato will know to fight with a clone as well to discourage itachi from using genjutsu. even if he does the clone can simply swap with the oringinal or hirashin the original to safety
> 
> well it is not all that balanced there isnt much itachi can do to stop minato. who even though he is fighting an edo can match him in stamina since minato really isnt using any exhaustive jutsu.
> 
> ...



I don't think Itachi would utilise Genjutsu against Minato like that. With full knowledge, he'd probably just let Minato think that he has him beat and cast Genjutsu while Minato's either using Rasengan on a Bunshin or stabbing a Bunshin. Minato's way too fast for Itachi to use Genjutsu on him in a direct confrontation.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

i do agree, but you are forgetting minato has full knowledge this also means minato isnt going to be goign for direction confrontation either. His jutsu is perfectly suited to not have to. he can jump with clones and keep itachi guessing, if itachi catches a clone in genjutsu he would have revealed his game to minato. From there minato would be even more careful. 

i know both are intelligent and use clones to perfection, the one thing itachi cant do however is instantly swap with his clone. Even the likes of juubito couldnt track the swap. to itachi it would be as if minato never moved. 

Finally minato can always try attacking from behind which by passes all together itachi genjutsu as itachi needs eye contact, or minato looking at his finger


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> i do agree, but you are forgetting minato has full knowledge this also means minato isnt going to be goign for direction confrontation either. His jutsu is perfectly suited to not have to. he can jump with clones and keep itachi guessing, if itachi catches a clone in genjutsu he would have revealed his game to minato. From there minato would be even more careful.
> 
> i know both are intelligent and use clones to perfection, the one thing itachi cant do however is instantly swap with his clone. Even the likes of juubito couldnt track the swap. to itachi it would be as if minato never moved.
> 
> Finally minato can always try attacking from behind which by passes all together itachi genjutsu as itachi needs eye contact, or minato looking at his finger



Mhm, that's true. I don't think Minato would make many Bunshin though, he knows that Itachi is an Edo and he can't afford to waste Chakra against an Edo. Even though Minato has a massive amount of Chakra, he's not one to waste. I think he would make 2-5 Bunshin but no more than that.


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

minato doesnt need to make many. thats a waste. itachi doesnt make many either, as you know clones are weaker than original only naruto spams clones. 

minato will not even make more than 2, would be pointless. Nor would itachi, clones are used as distractions and diversion. 

the best clones users use 1 or 2 max at a time 

tobirama, kakashi, itachi. they rig these clones as well 

marking, raiton bunshin, exploding or genjutsu bunshin 

So yh minato wont use clones alot, however his clone if attacked provides an opening for minato to strike or at least allows minato analyse itachi game plan 

itachi will no doubt do the same, however exploding bunshin is casually avoided by hirashin and genjutsu bunshin can only catch the real minato who would be saved by his bunshin


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## DaVizWiz (Dec 3, 2014)

Inb4 Koto Crow.


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

Been done many times.....minato wins has many ways to win ill state the best one....he keeps his distance dodges all of itachis attacks with ftg summons ma and pa charges frog song .....that music gg


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## Icegaze (Dec 3, 2014)

No need for ma and pa
Also not his style at all


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> minato doesnt need to make many. thats a waste. itachi doesnt make many either, as you know clones are weaker than original only naruto spams clones.
> 
> minato will not even make more than 2, would be pointless. Nor would itachi, clones are used as distractions and diversion.
> 
> ...



Ah, agreed. How would Minato know when to dodge the exploding Bunshin though? He was able to use Hiraishin to escape from the explosive tags but he already knew they were going to explode.


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> No need for ma and pa
> Also not his style at all



Just sayin while agree no need to summon ma and pa but he has the option and frog song is a sure fire ko...


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## Zynn (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Ah, agreed. How would Minato know when to dodge the exploding Bunshin though? He was able to use Hiraishin to escape from the explosive tags but he already knew they were going to explode.



He can escape from being warped by Obito mid-warping and a punch from lightning clad A when it's barely millimeters from his face, which is a proof that a simple bunshin daibakuha wouldn't be able to catch him either. Minato's reflex+FTG is a really broken combination unless he's fighting god-tier shinobi like Juubi Jin Obito/Madara.


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

Zynn said:


> He can escape from being warped by Obito mid-warping and a punch from lightning clad A when it's barely millimeters from his face, which is a proof that a simple bunshin daibakuha wouldn't be able to catch him either. Minato's reflex+FTG is a really broken combination unless he's fighting god-tier shinobi like Juubi Jin Obito/Madara.



But an explosion is just an explosion. Obito's warp has a process that is visible, how would he be able to know that it's an exploding Bunshin? Granted, he may be able to but Itachi's Bunshin just explodes, it doesn't show any signs prior to that, I believe.


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## JuicyG (Dec 3, 2014)

Minato wins

- Minto has full knowledge as well, so he won't waste kunai that will be burnt be Amaterasu. Instead Minato would toss 4-5 in a scattered way towards Itachi. Minato warps back and forth to eventually tag the Susano and warp it away to instantly tag Itachi before he is able to put up another Susano

- Itachi's genjutsu is useless because Minato is a sensor and can do what he needs to without looking


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Minato wins
> - Itachi's genjutsu is useless because Minato is a sensor and can do what he needs to without looking



Genjutsu affects the senses directly though, Kakashi's Bunshin was completely stationary while under Genjutsu as was Naruto when he was under it. I don't think moving while in the Genjutsu would do anything.


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## Zynn (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> But an explosion is just an explosion. Obito's warp has a process that is visible, how would he be able to know that it's an exploding Bunshin? Granted, he may be able to but Itachi's Bunshin just explodes, it doesn't show any signs prior to that, I believe.



If he can avoid a punch from someone who moves as fast as lightning, he can avoid being caught in an explosion. Lightning is faster than explosion after all. At best, the explosion might be able to singe his clothes before he zaps away.


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## JuicyG (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Genjutsu affects the senses directly though, Kakashi's Bunshin was completely stationary while under Genjutsu as was Naruto when he was under it. I don't think moving while in the Genjutsu would do anything.




What chance does Itachi have to put Minato, who is warping at light speeds towards Itachi without looking, in a genjutsu ? It is more likely to say Minato tags Itachi than it is to say Minato falls into a genjutsu and dies.


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## Zynn (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> Genjutsu affects the senses directly though, Kakashi's Bunshin was completely stationary while under Genjutsu as was Naruto when he was under it. I don't think moving while in the Genjutsu would do anything.



I've always wondered about this, though. One of the ways to escape Genjutsu is having another foreign energy enters your system (Like how Sakura and Chiyo liberated Naruto), right? And Minato can draw in natural energy. Does it work the same as having foreign chakra into his system?


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## Itachі (Dec 3, 2014)

Zynn said:


> If he can avoid a punch from someone who moves as fast as lightning, he can avoid being caught in an explosion. Lightning is faster than explosion after all. At best, the explosion might be able to singe his clothes before he zaps away.



I really don't think that that's a valid comparison. 

If we have evidence of Minato being able to avoid something point blank with prior warning then fine, I don't think we have that though.



JuicyG said:


> What chance does Itachi have to put Minato, who is warping at light speeds towards Itachi without looking, in a genjutsu ? It is more likely to say Minato tags Itachi than it is to say Minato falls into a genjutsu and dies.



That's not the point, you acted like Minato could still fight while inside of a Genjutsu, which is not the case.

Edit: Unless you were trying to say that his sensory skills let him avoid getting caught in Genjutsu, perhaps I misunderstood.



Zynn said:


> I've always wondered about this, though. One of the ways to escape Genjutsu is having another foreign energy enters your system (Like how Sakura and Chiyo liberated Naruto), right? And Minato can draw in natural energy. Does it work the same as having foreign chakra into his system?



That wouldn't work since Minato's senses are affected and he wouldn't be able to do much. Orochimaru was able to lift his arms though. Chiyo and Sakura did it because they were able to use Chakra, Minato under a Genjutsu would have his abilities very hampered.


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## JuicyG (Dec 3, 2014)

Yes. I think you missed my point bro


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## Zynn (Dec 3, 2014)

Itachі said:


> I really don't think that that's a valid comparison.
> 
> If we have evidence of Minato being able to avoid something point blank with prior warning then fine, I don't think we have that though.



Fine. Point blank with prior warning = Lighting clad A's punch, because fact:  lightning is faster than explosion. For good measure, point blank *without *prior warning = Obito's warping. And yes, Obito's warping is a very fast technique because he could warp Sasuke away from Onoki's point blank Dust release. 





> That wouldn't work since Minato's senses are affected and he wouldn't be able to do much. Orochimaru was able to lift his arms though. Chiyo and Sakura did it because they were able to use Chakra, Minato under a Genjutsu would have his abilities very hampered.



Minato is a Perfect Sage. The one reason he doesn't use it much is because it clashes horribly with his super fast fighting style. Being in a Genjutsu means you cannot move anyway, so what's stopping him from drawing natural energy? If Naruto can draw nature energy and become SM barely a minute after having transformed into eight tail Kyuubi in his fight again Deva, then Minato, who has waayy better capacity as a shinobi, should be able to do so under Genjutsu.


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## sabre320 (Dec 3, 2014)

Minato makes a clone...the clone sets up markings all around while minato throws  kunais at sussano gets into range teleports sussano away the clone could then exploit this with the various ftg marking or his shunshin to land a touch itachi is marked........death sentence given...hell given ftg lv2 s range he could teleport inside sussano surprising itachi........he can dodge literally all of itachis attacks..worst comes to worse ma and pa are summoned minato gets out of range or teleports frog song prepared and then the music guides itachi to heaven or hell considering his murder of inncocent children


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## Itachikun (Dec 3, 2014)

Minato is stronger than Itachi IMO, and he's physically healthier than Itachi as well. He was portrayed as the stronger character in my eyes.

Essentially, I see Itachi being overwhelmed in an area he strongly relies on to execute his arsenal of abilities in the most effective and efficient way; Speed!

A man capable of dodging lightning a few mm from hitting his face with teleportation? A man able of outrun an explosive bomb placed on his baby, already off to explode with natural speed alone? A man with the ability to feel your chakra network system and know when you're moldng your chakra (a prerequisite for all jutsus) for a jutsu, whether its yin based (genjutsu) or yang based (ninjutsu).

I feel that if would almost be an insurmountable task for Itachi to surprise such an opponent. And even if Minato was surprised, he has the ultimate bail me out of his predicament no jutsu (teleportation).

I feel it'd be a matter of time before Itachi gets sealed.


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## ARGUS (Dec 3, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @argus you want itachi to waste amaterasu to burn kunai?? minato will just throw more and then more. we have no idea how he threw over 20 against Ei. they were all in that little pouch as well. minato is a kunai spammer, attempting to get rid of tags is not only impossible it is wasteful.


Hes an edo here, he can spam amaterasu as many times as he wants, and his chakra will keep on replenishing, so if any one would run out, itll be Minato not the other way around, 

not to mention that he doesnt even need amaterasu to counter minatos markings, 
when V4 susanoo slashes can cover several meters worth of distance with its blade span and would eradicate all the surrounding kunais in the location, therefore preventing minato from closing the distance, meaning that all of minatos attacking attempts are nullified here, 

and if he attempts to close  the distance through his shunshin, he is just going to susceptible to genjutsu




> Or minato can just notice what itachi is doing, and minato uses 2 clones to touch every and any surface. what is itahi going to do burn the entire battle field?


Ok, but minato still has no way of attacking itachi herre,
whereas the latter can still crush all of his surroundings with susanoo, 

and itachi can match his clones with minatos, 
as well as the fact that he can have use his crows, therefore increasing the probability of minato either getting caught in a genjutsu, or getting eradicated my susanoo, 

either way, if itachi fails to land a hit on minato then the latter still gets outlasted since he has no way whatsoever to breach susanoo, 
and teleporting out of his susanoo is even more unlikely due to the reasons i have specified in my previous post


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## Icegaze (Dec 4, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Hes an edo here, he can spam amaterasu as many times as he wants, and his chakra will keep on replenishing, so if any one would run out, itll be Minato not the other way around,
> 
> not to mention that he doesnt even need amaterasu to counter minatos markings,
> when V4 susanoo slashes can cover several meters worth of distance with its blade span and would eradicate all the surrounding kunais in the location, therefore preventing minato from closing the distance, meaning that all of minatos attacking attempts are nullified here,
> ...



Edo or not that is a flat out retarded thing to do. You are smarter than that. argue better. 
so he uses amaterasu on all kunai he sees. Minato throws more. then what rinse and repeat? 
minato is throwing kunai no chakra wasted. itachi is burning up chakra, edo or not it isnt a tactic he will try

sorry i think you are living in ur fanfic here. so susanoo slashes the kunai and what cuts the markings??? or do they vanish??? all that would happen is the kunai could be destroyed best case scenario, however the mark remains or the kunai are pushed back. 

or are you saying he is going to attempt stabbing each kunai and seal them?? 

again in terms of clone usage minato tactic is more leathal. tagging a clone means he can swap with his clone or close in instantly on itachi if itachi is anywhere near his clone

minato would not even use shushin against itachi he doesnt need to, not when he is the worlds best kunai spammer. i mean in that little pouch he threw 20 in 1 go. seriously!! 

no one is teleporting itachi out of susanoo. i dont believe in that tactic. however susanoo has no bottom. if a kunai gets within susanoo cuz itachi doesnt notice he dies. 

or gama dropped on susanoo will do some damage dont you think?


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Edo or not that is a flat out retarded thing to do. You are smarter than that. argue better.
> so he uses amaterasu on all kunai he sees. Minato throws more. then what rinse and repeat?
> minato is throwing kunai no chakra wasted. itachi is burning up chakra, edo or not it isnt a tactic he will try
> 
> ...



Whst so unreasonable about teleporting sussano? it happened in canon...ftg 2 also has a significant range around the marker ....so can get inside sussano


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## Icegaze (Dec 4, 2014)

Teleporting susanoo never happened in canon
I have no solid basis for it but I don't think Minato can just teleport away his susanoo otherwise seriously no more Minato vs itachi threads should be made 
Too unbalanced 
For now I just believe Minato would win but it isn't unbalanced


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Teleporting susanoo never happened in canon
> I have no solid basis for it but I don't think Minato can just teleport away his susanoo otherwise seriously no more Minato vs itachi threads should be made
> Too unbalanced
> For now I just believe Minato would win but it isn't unbalanced



See minato and sasukes case its damn possible...lol thats why ftg is hax with minato ..dude teleported kurama while on top of buntas head without any direct contact so ya


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## Icegaze (Dec 4, 2014)

Your right could work 
Itachi chances reduced even more 
Not the best 

With hirashin you can choose what you teleport even if not physically touching it


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Hes an edo here, he can spam amaterasu as many times as he wants, and his chakra will keep on replenishing, so if any one would run out, itll be Minato not the other way around,
> 
> not to mention that he doesnt even need amaterasu to counter minatos markings,
> when V4 susanoo slashes can cover several meters worth of distance with its blade span and would eradicate all the surrounding kunais in the location, therefore preventing minato from closing the distance, meaning that all of minatos attacking attempts are nullified here,
> ...



Contrary to popular belief edo run out of chakra they have a limited chakra pool if they use many taxing jutsu they run out of chakra its just replenishes at a faster rate..considering itachis meager chakra pool his spam of amaterasu while keeping up sussano is getting him panting like a cheap who*e Itachis clones are fodder compared to minatos karasu bunshin are not dealing with kage bunshin with ftg


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## Icegaze (Dec 4, 2014)

Well I won't put it how your are putting it saber
Itachi clone are far from fodder but in terms of rigged clones 
No better tactic than hirashin marking your clone 

Actually might make a thread about that . Which is the best type of rigged clone ?

Hirashin marked clone
Karasu bunshin
Exploding bunshin
Raiton bunshin
Ink bunshin( killer bee not sai)
Wood bunshin ( clone was shown to bind juubito on contact )
Water clone ( can turn into water prison )


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Your right could work
> Itachi chances reduced even more
> Not the best
> 
> With hirashin you can choose what you teleport even if not physically touching it



Itachi was never on minatos level hes just one level below him  we just got confirmation later in the manga the whole parralel theory was amusing though especially when both were brought back as edo


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Well I won't put it how your are putting it saber
> Itachi clone are far from fodder but in terms of rigged clones
> No better tactic than hirashin marking your clone
> 
> ...



Ya might have worded it too strongly karasu bunshin are not even remotely fodder just that comparatively  to minatos ftg bunshin the utility is off the charts


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## Icegaze (Dec 4, 2014)

That's what am saying I don't think so like that
Karasu bunshin instantly catching anyone that defeats it jn genjutsu
That's pretty bad ass 

Rank them from best to worst 

I want to see where you put ink clone for example


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## sabre320 (Dec 4, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Well I won't put it how your are putting it saber
> Itachi clone are far from fodder but in terms of rigged clones
> No better tactic than hirashin marking your clone
> 
> ...



Ftg bunshin is top way too versatile and efficient!
Raiton bunshin
Wood bunshin
Karasu bunshin
Exploding bunshin
Water bunshin
Ink...


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Ftg bunshin is top way too versatile and efficient!
> Raiton bunshin
> Wood bunshin
> Karasu bunshin
> ...



no way you put ink bunshin used by killer bee last?? the thing seals you in 3 seconds after contact 

i agree FTG the best
 raiton
 exploding
karasu
ink
water
wood 

I was also thinking this match may be closer than i thought, itachi could use a very weak genjutsu like sasuke used on danzo and that could decide things. 

he could simply have minato believe minato appeared right infront of him, meanwhile he is behind minato etc. its quite close 

in the end, itachi might be smart enough to figure out minato teleporting pattern then again he will always be at a disadvantage


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 5, 2014)

Itachi Wins extreme diff

Minato can't bust susano and him trying over and over will result in izanami.



Itachi can relfect minato's kunai with his own to limit his ftg usage and he will be able to pin point where he's going, amatarasu will also destroy the seals.
Susano can also damage the kunai and ground which will also limit minato's ability to teliport
genjutsu is still a problem for minato, even tho he's very fast if itachi is limiting his ftg usage with kunai, amatarasu, and susano the odds become higher for him to succumb to genjutsu.





can go either way but im leaning with itachi


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## sabre320 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> no way you put ink bunshin used by killer bee last?? the thing seals you in 3 seconds after contact
> 
> i agree FTG the best
> raiton
> ...



Far too many arguments for minatos side mate....problem with minatos ftg usage is there are far too many variables to predict he spams seals and kunai...5 markers u can make a guess but the dude can literally paint the battlefield with markers not just kunai not to mention bunshins with ftg which can put more markers and kunai ..markception.....dude carries a magical pouch not to mention his shunshin means he can cover huge distances to position the marks better...dude its extremely unlikely that itachis getting eye contact from itachi.obito also has very good genjutsu feats couldnt manage it..with minato teleporting all over the place and with his shunshin...not to mention minato has magnificent chakra control and a sensor any hint of influence from a lesser genjutsu and he teleports out of range..


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi Wins extreme diff
> 
> Minato can't bust susano and him trying over and over will result in izanami.
> 
> ...



reflecting kunai is at best a delay tactic. also in terms of kunai throwing speed minato>>>>>>>itachi also in terms of amount thrown at once minato>>>>>>>>>>>>>itachi

you want amaterasu to destroy over 30 kunai???? how many times do you think he would have to use amaterasu to hit kunai scattered everywhere. not like they in LoS

wasted effort minato throws some more right after 

why would he use susanoo to attack kunai?? if a kunai is within his susanoo he dies instantly. he will not be able to predict where every single kunai is or where minato will appear. tryign to swing to destroy kunai with susanoo is a futile effort. 

minato drops gamabunta on him while he is mid swing. itachi wont die. but trust me either susanoo is reduced to a lower form or itachi looses it completely from there he dies sooo fast its not funny. 

not exaggerating here but itachi only shot is genjutsu. if minato falls for a karasu bunshin or somethign like that. 

i think itachi may not attempt any high forms of susanoo it would do him waaaay more harm than good.


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> reflecting kunai is at best a delay tactic. also in terms of kunai throwing speed minato>>>>>>>itachi also in terms of amount thrown at once minato>>>>>>>>>>>>>itachi
> 
> you want amaterasu to destroy over 30 kunai???? how many times do you think he would have to use amaterasu to hit kunai scattered everywhere. not like they in LoS
> 
> ...



i wouldn't be so quick to say minato can throw more faster, you've seen itachi's shuriken speed with his sasuke clash and it serves just fine as a small delay , as it only needs to be utilized to put minato in a genjutsu.
itachi can guid the amatarasu the same way he guided it to follow sasuke, or the same way sasuke made the ring of amatarasu around itachi, he doesn't have to spam, one should be enough.



susano has a good amount of reach why is itachi instantly dieing because a kunai is near susano when minato can't breach susano to begin with? he doesn't need to predict where minato is coming from he just needs to minimize his teleporting options.
Susano held off the much bigger hydra ST
Gamambunta either get's a new hole in his ass or itachi simply defends with yata and pushes it off him, with full knowledge he won't be caught off guard like the kyubi.

Yep but itachi has a multitude of genjutsu, izanami, karusu genjutsu, tsukiyomi, basic 3 tomoe genjutsu.




As a edo i really don't see why not .


----------



## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> i wouldn't be so quick to say minato can throw more faster, you've seen itachi's shuriken speed with his sasuke clash and it serves just fine as a small delay , as it only needs to be utilized to put minato in a genjutsu.
> itachi can guid the amatarasu the same way he guided it to follow sasuke, or the same way sasuke made the ring of amatarasu around itachi, he doesn't have to spam, one should be enough.
> 
> 
> ...



when itachi throws 30 kunai in 1 panel get back to me. minato simply throws more quicker this was very clearly shown. he also can throw kunai at the same speed as kamui wrap which is insanely fast. 

seriously i do not see how if he does what he attempt to do to jj madara how itachi doesnt eat a rasengan from the get go. or at least get tagged

i meant if a kunai is within susanoo. sorry, in that case itachi dies 

itachi isnt defeating gamabunta if it lands on susanoo then bunta goes poof. never said minato would use it to fight 

other than FCD

as for itachi making a circle around himself of amaterasu frankly that is a good post. kudos will rep you. i really did not think of it.  why didnt i 

that would seriously limit minato options as minato will have to aim to throw kunai over it to get within the circle. however its a knife with no handle here, cuz itachi cant control enton the way sasuke can. he can be forced into his own amaterasu in which case he looses. 

while minato will always have an escape kunai handy


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## Bkprince33 (Dec 5, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> when itachi throws 30 kunai in 1 panel get back to me. minato simply throws more quicker this was very clearly shown. he also can throw kunai at the same speed as kamui wrap which is insanely fast.
> 
> seriously i do not see how if he does what he attempt to do to jj madara how itachi doesnt eat a rasengan from the get go. or at least get tagged
> 
> ...



thanks bro, im going to respond to your text wall when i get home later


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 6, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> i wouldn't be so quick to say minato can throw more faster, you've seen itachi's shuriken speed with his sasuke clash and it serves just fine as a small delay , as it only needs to be utilized to put minato in a genjutsu.
> itachi can guid the amatarasu the same way he guided it to follow sasuke, or the same way sasuke made the ring of amatarasu around itachi, he doesn't have to spam, one should be enough.
> 
> 
> ...



So Itachi basically builds a tiny ring of amaterasu and hides in it......cuz he aint flooding the battlefield with amaterasu Ya problem is minato is not gonna be standing around while thats happening dude prides himself on finishing fights quick his kunai feat against jubidara is amazing dude managed to through kunai at juubidara managed to get into sm and teleported infront of madara before he even knew it this was before kakashi even managed to finish kamui warp and kakashis kamui feats are insane and unfortunately itachi does not have the physical reactions to best sm minato....not to mention if he throws multiple kunai at itachis sussano any that get into range allow him to teleport itachi and his sussano out of the amaterasu ring


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 6, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> I
> 
> Minato can't bust susano and him trying over and over will result in izanami.
> [



It's almost 2015, and there are still people who don't know how Izanami works. 

Am I the only one who finds this truly sad?


----------



## Bkprince33 (Dec 6, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> when itachi throws 30 kunai in 1 panel get back to me. minato simply throws more quicker this was very clearly shown. he also can throw kunai at the same speed as kamui wrap which is insanely fast.
> 
> seriously i do not see how if he does what he attempt to do to jj madara how itachi doesnt eat a rasengan from the get go. or at least get tagged
> 
> ...




Itachi can throw this much kunai

*blow a hole in V3 susanoo*

he also made a clone so fast the sharingon couldn't track while throwing all of those shurikens, imagine if the clone jumped in the fray and starting throwing kunai as well.

*blow a hole in V3 susanoo*





he flash activates susano and sips some tea 







with full knowledge i would think the king would be more careful then to allow that.
gamabunta is going straight into the bottle if minato tries to dump him on itachi.




itachi can out the flames whenever he choses as shown with sasuke, and this is pretty much just a method to limit minato's teleporting until he runs out of kunai, itachi can also have crow bushins fly over the flames, in a attempt to put minato in genjutsu, and has long range jutsu to distract minato from the crows being summoned it's a long shot and it will be tuff but i believe with edo reserves itachi can pull it off.






RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> It's almost 2015, and there are still people who don't know how Izanami works.
> 
> Am I the only one who finds this truly sad?



please explain to us how izanami works, enlighten us :ignoramus


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Itachi can throw this much kunai
> 
> sustain the technique, and have it follow Killer Bee to his substitute.
> 
> ...



The panel you referenced is itachi throwing shiruken quickly in a short period of time 
Multiple throws however

Minato threw 30+ kunai in 1 go he will out number itachi shiruken 

Also note deflecting them doesn't help itachi chances if winning cuz minato can still teleport to them 

As for making a ring of Amaterasu that's a decent tactic 

Which will be by passed by sacrificial clones aiming to tag and we all know if minato can tag itachi 
Itachi dies no questions asked

Also note if minato can touch susanoo and mark it this linking his chakra to itachi he can casually hirashin in itachi susanoo if there is a space between itachi and his layers of chakra 

It's a tougher match than I thought though


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Minato's speed is overrated. What has he done? Beat young, not in his prime Obito, who gave him some trouble? Beat Raikage, who also was not in his prime and without V2 Lightning Armor? Teleported a TBB that was already slowed down by Bee? Came to battlefield faster than other Kage's because it was a part of their plan? LOL. Itachi fought on par with KCM Naruto. That already puts him in the same speed class as Minato. And with his abilities, he beats Minato.

Itachi wins, 8/10.


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Minato's speed is overrated. What has he done? Beat young, not in his prime Obito, who gave him some trouble? Beat Raikage, who also was not in his prime and without V2 Lightning Armor? Teleported a TBB that was already slowed down by Bee? Came to battlefield faster than other Kage's because it was a part of their plan? LOL. Itachi fought on par with KCM Naruto. That already puts him in the same speed class as Minato. And with his abilities, he beats Minato.
> 
> Itachi wins, 8/10.



Loool 

Minato defeated a kamui user when itachi can pull that off  in one move u holla 

Ei used his fastest punch and minato trolled it 

That singular attack is faster than itachi entire non genjutsu arsenal


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Loool
> 
> Minato defeated a kamui user when itachi can pull that off  in one move u holla
> 
> ...



So what? Obito was not in his prime. He was young and unexperienced. Not very impressive.

And? Raikage also was not in his prime. He also didnt have his V2 Lightning Armor. 

And looooool, Itachi fought equaly with KCM Naruto, who was able to react to prime Raikage. Itachi wrecks Minato.


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## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> So what? Obito was not in his prime. He was young and unexperienced. Not very impressive.
> 
> And? Raikage also was not in his prime. He also didnt have his V2 Lightning Armor.
> 
> And looooool, Itachi fought equaly with KCM Naruto, who was able to react to prime Raikage. Itachi wrecks Minato.



ya young and unexperienced just like our main characters see where that got us lol

Raikage canonically used v2 and his fastest punch and raikage does not contest his speed to this day...

ya ur precious...


----------



## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> So what? Obito was not in his prime. He was young and unexperienced. Not very impressive.
> 
> And? Raikage also was not in his prime. He also didnt have his V2 Lightning Armor.
> 
> And looooool, Itachi fought equaly with KCM Naruto, who was able to react to prime Raikage. Itachi wrecks Minato.



Great, a new stupid user who knows nothing about the manga. 

First of all, age means absolutely ZERO in this manga. Doesn't matter how old you are or how experienced, if you have the power the everything else is irrelevant. Obito was trained by madara, possessed both senju and uchiha DNA (and its healing ability), possessed one of the most powerful Mangekyou techniques (a space time ninjutsu that minato admitted was superior to his own). And Obito had all the intel while minato knew nothing about his oppoenent and was worrying about his wife, son and village all at the same time. Yet he spanked Obito in 1 minute flat. So just shut up there. Naruto was 16 yet soloing most of the ninja war, yet hasn't reached his prime.... Doesn't mean he wasn't incredibly powerful.

Stop talking about prime, you really don't know anything. Ay said it was his fastest punch, so that means it was v2. Ay's hair spiked up as well, you can see it before he strikes minato, but his headband is keeping his hair down. As Raikage he doesn't wear a headband so you can clearly see when his hair spikes up. Minato was only 19/20 at the time, when he faced Ay. Ay was in his late 20s/early 30s. Why aren't you saying minato wasn't in his prime too? 

Naruto was trying to talk to itachi, he wasn't serious at all. Did you see Naruto use a single jutsu against itachi? Go and check and tell me if Naruto used one jutsu against itachi. I can tell you the answer right now, NO, Naruto didn't. He was explaining to itachi what happened to Sasuke. And Naruto knew he was an Edo, so he couldn't attack him seriously, you muppet. And lastly, KCM doesn't change Narutos taijutsu ability, so don't flatter yourself. It increases his shunshin speed.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> ya young and unexperienced just like our main characters see where that got us lol
> 
> Raikage canonically used v2 and his fastest punch and raikage does not contest his speed to this day...
> 
> ya ur precious...



Prove he used V2 Armor against Minato. 



> Great, a new stupid user who knows nothing about the manga.
> 
> First of all, age means absolutely ZERO in this manga. Doesn't matter how old you are or how experienced, if you have the power the everything else is irrelevant. Obito was trained by madara, possessed both senju and uchiha DNA (and its healing ability), possessed one of the most powerful Mangekyou techniques (a space time ninjutsu that minato admitted was superior to his own). And Obito had all the intel while minato knew nothing about his oppoenent and was worrying about his wife, son and village all at the same time. Yet he spanked Obito in 1 minute flat. So just shut up there. Naruto was 16 yet soloing most of the ninja war, yet hasn't reached his prime.... Doesn't mean he wasn't incredibly powerful.
> 
> ...



Obito is not Naruto. But ok, i ask you to prove he possess the same potensial as Naruto.

Also, prove that age does not matter in Narutoverse. Because Third Hokage wouldnt agree with you. Just as Raikage, who couldnt use V2 Armor when he was young.

I also want you to prove that young Obito was as powerful and fast as during Shippuden.

Prove that Raikage's fastest punch during his fight with Minato is as fast as during his fight with Naruto. Prove that, overall, young Raikage was as great as Shippuden Raikage.

Minato wasnt in his prime, but that feat still is not very impressive. Not impressive enough to say he can beat Itachi, who fought on par with KCM Naruto, with speed.

Wasnt serious? LOL, realy? He was fighting at war, for his life, and he wasnt serious? And lol, Naruto didnt atatck him seriously because he was an Edo? LOL.

KCM Naruto was fast enough to ract to prime V2 Armor Raikage. Thats a fact. Itachi fought equaly with KCM Naruto. Thats why Itachi is in the same speed class as Minato, who does not possess enough speed to dodge Itachi's finger genjutsu.

P.S. Can you get a ban for an insults here?


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## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Prove he used V2 Armor against Minato.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude was hearing a headband if ur insinuating about the hair....tell me just one thing why did raikage who fought with kcm naruto say that he was the only one that dodged my full speed punch and still considers him above him in speed because of that feat please enlighten me..
If raikage improved so drastically in speed while minato remained dead dont you think that raikage would mention he had surpassed minato??? naruto was sparring with itachi wanted to talk about sasukes predicament and had no intention or incentive of taking itachi out while itachi was forced by edo tensei to go all out he could have used chakra arms that can crush boulders while not trying....and uppercut gedo mazo...you think itachi could handle that whilepossesing average durability?


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Dude was hearing a headband if ur insinuating about the hair....tell me just one thing why did raikage who fought with kcm naruto say that he was the only one that dodged my full speed punch and still considers him above him in speed because of that feat please enlighten me..
> If raikage improved so drastically in speed while minato remained dead dont you think that raikage would mention he had surpassed minato??? naruto was sparring with itachi wanted to talk about sasukes predicament and had no intention or incentive of taking itachi out while itachi was forced by edo tensei to go all out he could have used chakra arms that can crush boulders while not trying....and uppercut gedo mazo...you think itachi could handle that whilepossesing average durability?



That headband didnt cover all of his hair. Parts of hair must be up at least a little bit if its V2 Lightning Armor. But we cant see that in his fight with Minato. It was not a V2 Armor.

Well, its a fact Minato dodged his punch. So there is nothing special about that. He could consider him a great rival in speed if he was alive up to that time. Anyway, it is clear Raikage grew stronger. ut Raikage probably didnt know if he could surpass him if he was alive. And characters words cant always be taken as a legitimate proof, you know. Character can be wrong.

Naruto was fighting for his life against an enemy. He was at war. He isnt stupid enough to not go all out in a fight against Edo Itachi.


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> So what? Obito was not in his prime. He was young and unexperienced. Not very impressive.
> 
> And? Raikage also was not in his prime. He also didnt have his V2 Lightning Armor.
> 
> And looooool, Itachi fought equaly with KCM Naruto, who was able to react to prime Raikage. Itachi wrecks Minato.



You would have to prove Raikage got faster wasn't stated 
I could also say Minato wasn't in his prime when he fought Raikage 

Itachi and naruto were fooling around during their exchange . Means nothing


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> You would have to prove Raikage got faster wasn't stated
> I could also say Minato wasn't in his prime when he fought Raikage
> 
> Itachi and naruto were fooling around during their exchange . Means nothing



He got faster because he got V2 Lightning Armor and Tailed Beast chakra level. Also, its pretty much logical that he improved throughout those years.

Minato wasnt in his prime, yes. But nevertheless, he havent shown speed feats enough to put him above Itachi during his lifetime.

Yeah, fooling around, when they are both at war. When Itachi is an Edo Tensei kage-level shinobi who is trying to kill Naruto.


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## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> That headband didnt cover all of his hair. Parts of hair must be up at least a little bit if its V2 Lightning Armor. But we cant see that in his fight with Minato. It was not a V2 Armor.
> 
> Well, its a fact Minato dodged his punch. So there is nothing special about that. He could consider him a great rival in speed if he was alive up to that time. Anyway, it is clear Raikage grew stronger. ut Raikage probably didnt know if he could surpass him if he was alive. And characters words cant always be taken as a legitimate proof, you know. Character can be wrong.
> 
> Naruto was fighting for his life against an enemy. He was at war. He isnt stupid enough to not go all out in a fight against Edo Itachi.



You keep denying the manga canon and make blatant assumptions to suit your flimsy arguments that are transparent in their hate for minato stop hating ...im out icegaze its no use bud !


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> You keep denying the manga canon and make blatant assumptions to suit your flimsy arguments that are transparent in their hate for minato stop hating ...im out icegaze its no use bud !



I denyed nothing from the manga.


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## Cognitios (Dec 7, 2014)

ARGUS solo'd this thread on the first page with his first post.


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## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> ARGUS solo'd this thread on the first page with his first post.



Yup same way itacho soloed nagato


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> He got faster because he got V2 Lightning Armor and Tailed Beast chakra level. Also, its pretty much logical that he improved throughout those years.
> 
> Minato wasnt in his prime, yes. But nevertheless, he havent shown speed feats enough to put him above Itachi during his lifetime.
> 
> Yeah, fooling around, when they are both at war. When Itachi is an Edo Tensei kage-level shinobi who is trying to kill Naruto.



V2 shroud is fan made
Also something he used when he attacked Minato 
Again no proof or statement to back up 

They were havin a chat 
Please tell me when ninja have fought to kill each other and been talking while fighting


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> V2 shroud is fan made
> Also something he used when he attacked Minato
> Again no proof or statement to back up
> 
> ...



That shroud is from his daily basis Lightning Release. You still have no proof it was a V2 Armor.

Madara and Hashirama. Is that enough? 

Anwyay, Naruto was fighting for his life. He was all out. And Itachi could keep up with him.


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## sabre320 (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> V2 shroud is fan made
> Also something he used when he attacked Minato
> Again no proof or statement to back up
> 
> ...



Let it go...he hates minato thinks hashirama is a tier above bm minato in speed its a lost cause


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Let it go...he hates minato thinks hashirama is a tier above bm minato in speed its a lost cause



I made a statement and i proved that i am right by bringing feats and logic here. You, on the other hand, have nothing on the topic.

But if you have any proof that Minato is faster than Hashirama in combat speed, bring them here.


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> That shroud is from his daily basis Lightning Release. You still have no proof it was a V2 Armor.
> 
> Madara and Hashirama. Is that enough?
> 
> Anwyay, Naruto was fighting for his life. He was all out. And Itachi could keep up with him.



What on earth is V2 armor 

You have no basis to say he got faster . It would be like assuming in chapter 700 that he got faster than in war arc 

Madara and hashirama were not talking while physically punching each other


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> What on earth is V2 armor
> 
> You have no basis to say he got faster . It would be like assuming in chapter 700 that he got faster than in war arc
> 
> Madara and hashirama were not talking while physically punching each other



In chapter 700, it is obvious he became an old man. But in this case, it is obvious he improved throughout those years, since, in Shippuden, he is in excellent condition. 

V2 Raikage is the same Raikage who reached Tailed Beast chakra level before attacking Sasuke. 

The fact they were talking proves nothing anyway. Naruto was at war and was fighting for his life against a kage-level edo tensei shinobi. Why should he hold himself back against him?


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## Icegaze (Dec 7, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> In chapter 700, it is obvious he became an old man. But in this case, it is obvious he improved throughout those years, since, in Shippuden, he is in excellent condition.
> 
> V2 Raikage is the same Raikage who reached Tailed Beast chakra level before attacking Sasuke.
> 
> The fact they were talking proves nothing anyway. Naruto was at war and was fighting for his life against a kage-level edo tensei shinobi. Why should he hold himself back against him?



Not using chakra arms or rasengan when he could have is the defbintion if holding back 
Are you snip!! Had to control myself 
Naruto was talking to him and they were discussing sasuke how on earth does that equate to naruto fighting for his life 

Fine I agree he got faster 
So did minato

Why should he have improved and not minato . Moot point though 
He admitted he was slower and weaker than Minato


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## StarWanderer (Dec 7, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Not using chakra arms or rasengan when he could have is the defbintion if holding back
> Are you snip!! Had to control myself
> Naruto was talking to him and they were discussing sasuke how on earth does that equate to naruto fighting for his life
> 
> ...



I'd like to see how he is gonna use it in a close combat against such a powerfull shinobi as Itachi. And again - there is no reason for Naruto to hold himself back. He was at war, Itachi was an edo tensei kage-level nin under Kabuto's control. Do you think Naruto was so stupid he decided to not fight at his fullest against such an enemy? 

Because Minato died before he could improve his skills. Plain and simple.

Itachi is in the same speed class as Minato. He can keep up with him. And he is definetely fast enough to put Itachi in a genjutsu.


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

how he would use chakra arms in close combat against itachi?? are you wanking or serious?
yes there is u dimwit, he was trying to get information from itachi. that doesnt work if itachi is being blown to bits.
same way itachi was trying to answer so it doesnt work if he is killing naruto with MS techniques. 

between when minato trolled raikage and when he died there was a time lapse 

also note Ei still admitted inferiority to minato speed and said he cannot be defeated 

lastly considering, minato flash rasengan dance which was no doubt created to troll Ei. it leads me to believe minato didnt just win that one time, they fought alot and minato always won 

itachi is in the same speed class as minato, till hirahsin comes in. then he is lagging behind laughably 

you arent putting someone in genjutus who can appear in 30+ places and makes it impossible to predict, since he isnt physically moving

i would like you to think about what happens if minato in order to avoid genjutus uses 30+
think about the combination of places he can appear, now considering all these kunai are simply throw in some organised straight line 
and each kunai has a 5 meter radius where he can appear, itachi would either need to be ridiculously good at guessing or math cuz he will be working out a combination n^r  where n is the number of kunai and r is the number of times he can appear to the same kunai. 

you do the math.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 9, 2014)

-snip-

Ay did not get faster, he's always had v2, which is what he used against minato. Ay's hair clearly spiked up against minato, as you can see in this image. However the headband keeps the rest of hair pinned down. But you can still see the edges are spiked and drizzling everywhere:




And when Ay is in V1, his hair doesn't spike at all, it remains the exact same as it is in his base form:


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> StarWanderer is a gigantic moron, knows nothing about the manga.
> 
> Ay did not get faster, he's always had v2, which is what he used against minato. Ay's hair clearly spiked up against minato, as you can see in this image. However the headband keeps the rest of hair pinned down. But you can still see the edges are spiked and drizzling everywhere:
> 
> ...



Even if he did used his V2 Armor, i wanna see a proof that his V2 Armor at that time was as good as V2 Armor he used in his fight with Sasuke. I also wanna see a proof that young Ei had Body Flicker technique and chakra comparable to tailed beasts chakra.


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

@rasen no need for the insult 

fact is V1 or V2 which is NF fan made is irrelevant. Ei admitted he was slower and was proved to be slower 

as for the match up, its not impossible for itachi to win but minato has the advantage. kishi has already made a point to show speed can be a great counter to genjutus. it doesnt mean its 100% guarantee
but it makes it less likely 

also because minato is teleporting and not movign, sharingan pre-cog wont be helping itachi at all


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @rasen no need for the insult
> 
> fact is V1 or V2 which is NF fan made is irrelevant. Ei admitted he was slower and was proved to be slower
> 
> ...



He was proved to be slower when he was young. Its debatable if Minato can keep up with prime Raikage. Because Raikage's power level changed during those years.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 9, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> He was proved to be slower when he was young. Its debatable if Minato can keep up with prime Raikage. Because Raikage's power level changed during those years.



I just proved to you that he used v2. And there is more evidence:


Ay says Naruto is the second person to dodge his fastest punch. The first being minato. Ay then compares Naruto to minato. Tsuande even says Naruto dodged him just like the yellow flash

And finally, in the 4th databook/current databook. It says that Ay's lightning cloak was able to keep up with Narutos chakra mode, yet it was "no match for the yellow flash".


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

What rasen said


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> I just proved to you that he used v2. And there is more evidence:
> 
> 
> Ay says Naruto is the second person to dodge his fastest punch. The first being minato. Ay then compares Naruto to minato. Tsuande even says Naruto dodged him just like the yellow flash
> ...



Tsunade never saw Minato fighting with someone. Her words cant be taken as a legitimate proof.

But ok, Ei said that. So what? It is the fact that he dodged Ei's fastest punch. But the quastion is - was Ei's fastest punch as fast as his fastest punch during 4th Shinobi World War? No. Raikage became stronger and faster. It is obvious. Its a fact.

Yeah, no match for Yellow Flash at the time when Raikage was young. Anyway, bring here a scan from databook.

I still wanna see a proof that his armor when he was young is equal to armor that he used against Sasuke.


----------



## sabre320 (Dec 9, 2014)

StarWanderer said:


> Tsunade never saw Minato fighting with someone. Her words cant be taken as a legitimate proof.
> 
> But ok, Ei said that. So what? It is the fact that he dodged Ei's fastest punch. But the quastion is - was Ei's fastest punch as fast as his fastest punch during 4th Shinobi World War? No. Raikage became stronger and faster. It is obvious. Its a fact.
> 
> ...



Dude let it go jesus what proof do you have that a was slower and lacked chakra reserves when he was younger? Raikage himself was comparing his current and past self as a whole being and said that only minato could dodge his full speed punch the cocky bastard would bring up the fact that he had surpassed minato and was fastest..he still thought of him as unsurpassable..yet he told us specifically beacause MINATO IS DEAD ....YES FOCUS NOW BECAUSE HE IS DEAD IM THE FASTEST NOW stop with ur hatin man its gotten embarassing in every minato thread ur spreading ur biased hate...


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

sabre he is new forgive him

i love the raikage got stronger and faster statement despite this never being once substantiated

getting older doesnt remotely mean his skills are goign to massively improve. naruto trained for 3 years, his part 2 abilities at the start leave nothing to be desired. then within the span of 1 year he goes from his below hebi sasuke level, to Sm naruto which is kage level, then gets KCm cloak etc

saying because time went by therefore a person massively improved is just wrong. a person can peak, and then maintain said prowess.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

sabre320 said:


> Dude let it go jesus what proof do you have that a was slower and lacked chakra reserves when he was younger? Raikage himself was comparing his current and past self as a whole being and said that only minato could dodge his full speed punch the cocky bastard would bring up the fact that he had surpassed minato and was fastest..he still thought of him as unsurpassable..yet he told us specifically beacause MINATO IS DEAD ....YES FOCUS NOW BECAUSE HE IS DEAD IM THE FASTEST NOW stop with ur hatin man its gotten embarassing in every minato thread ur spreading ur biased hate...



Show me where young Raikage had chakra on tailed beast level. Show me where young Raikage had Body Flicker technique. Prove to me that prime Raikage's armor was as good as his armor when he was young. And he never compared his former and present self. And feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>statements.



> sabre he is new forgive him
> 
> i love the raikage got stronger and faster statement despite this never being once substantiated
> 
> ...



It is logically understandable that he improved. There is such a thing as progress. Many shinobi improved their abilities with time and so did Raikage. 

Prove that his powers were equal when he was young. Do you have proof Raikage had tailed beast chakra level when he was young? Do you have proof Raikages Lightning Armor was as good as his younger self armor? Do you have proof that Raikage had Body Flicker technique when he was young?


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

war arc raikage has no feats to suggest he is faster than his former self  see how that works?

i dont see how it is logically understandable at all. no basis there

there is such a thing as improvement true, its the rate of improvement u are assuming which is false considering u have no basis at all 

u made the statement without proof. you prove he got stronger and faster. 

do u have proof he didnt have those chakra levels when he was young? 

sorry if he didnt have body flicker technique when he attacked minato, what on earth did he use to get in front of minato face and physically not even seen running up to minato. kishi basically didnt bother drawing him on panel.

iruka showed no improvement in 3 years. people improve at different rates. kishi never established any improvement for Ei or anything at all to suggest he improved. 

this wasnt even slightly mentioned. strange how kishi mentioned sasuke improvement at the start of part 2. hmmmm why would he do that 

yet no bring up Ei improving..hmm i wonder why.

he seems to have done this for onoki as well, havin deidara clearly state he is faster than in his prime. but not for Ei..hmmm...makes me think. maybe kishi doesnt share your foolish POV


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> war arc raikage has no feats to suggest he is faster than his former self  see how that works?
> 
> i dont see how it is logically understandable at all. no basis there
> 
> ...



There was a very little time gap. So war Raikage was the same as he was during his fight with Sasuke. And there is nothing to suggest otherwise. 

Its not how it works. You have to prove to me he had all those trinckets when he was young. If you cant, well, than he didnt have those trinckets at that time. It is simple as that. 

But ok, i'll put it this way - prove that Tobirama cant use the same water volume that Kisame used against Killer Bee. 

Oh, and by the way, in anime we can see how he is running towards Minato.



> iruka showed no improvement in 3 years. people improve at different rates. kishi never established any improvement for Ei or anything at all to suggest he improved.
> 
> this wasnt even slightly mentioned. strange how kishi mentioned sasuke improvement at the start of part 2. hmmmm why would he do that
> 
> ...



Iruka didt improve his skills. because there is nothing to suggest he did. But in our case, we can see Raikage using techniques he didnt use when he was young. And we see how he is using chakra on a tailed beast level. It is obvious Raikage improved much.


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 9, 2014)

Raikage: "there is no shinobi faster than me, *ever since the fourth Hokage "*

Raikage directly says that the reason he is the fastest is only because the fourth Hokage is dead. Meaning that if he was alive, he'd be the second fastest.

Your main point is that Raikage didn't have v2 when he was younger, but I've shown you evidence that he did. Raikages hair only spikes up in v2, which is what happened against minato.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 9, 2014)

Did somebody really just type "Show me where young Raikage had Body Flicker technique".

Wow 2015 he we come .


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## sabre320 (Dec 9, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Did somebody really just type "Show me where young Raikage had Body Flicker technique".
> 
> Wow 2015 he we come .



Please try to guide him he is a young misguided soul many have tried but have failed..


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Raikage: "there is no shinobi faster than me, *ever since the fourth Hokage "*
> 
> Raikage directly says that the reason he is the fastest is only because the fourth Hokage is dead. Meaning that if he was alive, he'd be the second fastest.
> 
> Your main point is that Raikage didn't have v2 when he was younger, but I've shown you evidence that he did. Raikages hair only spikes up in v2, which is what happened against minato.



Maybe because he thought that if Minato lived up to that time, he would have improved since their last confrontation and still would be faster than Ei. But the point is - Minato died. And never reached his possible prime. or maybe he reached it up to his fight with Obito. Who knows.

You have to prove that V2 Armor, if it was V2 armor at all since hair can be up from many reasons, was as good as V2 Armor that he used against Sasuke. Also you have to prove that he had tailed beast level chakra when he was young. And you have to prove he had Body Flicker etchnique when he was young. You have to prove all of that, if you want to make me change my mind, of course.

From what we know, Raikage became much more powerfull after those years of training (and yeah, he trained a lot).


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## RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki (Dec 9, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Did somebody really just type "Show me where young Raikage had Body Flicker technique".
> 
> Wow 2015 he we come .



Dude, I'm almost in tears here becuase I'm literally talking to a brick wall 

I can't believe I'm arguing with such a person.


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

RaSenkoChoRinbukoSanshiki said:


> Dude, I'm almost in tears here becuase I'm literally talking to a brick wall
> 
> I can't believe I'm arguing with such a person.



Can you give me a proof young Raikage had Body Flicker?


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## sabre320 (Dec 9, 2014)

ck





StarWanderer said:


> Can you give me a proof young Raikage had Body Flicker?


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## Icegaze (Dec 9, 2014)

He just said in the anime while making an argument 
why o god why 

You are thinking too hard 

Ei admitted he was slower and they fought many times and he is someone he thought could never be beat 

also based on the simple fact that minato is teleporting he is always going to be faster in battle than the raikage 

There is no possible improvement raikage can make to change that 

Now considering the fought several times and he didn't win any or minato would have been broken in pieces 
Leads me to believe Ei didn't use the one encounter he laughably was lagging behind to make a conclusion on who is faster


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## StarWanderer (Dec 9, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> He just said in the anime while making an argument
> why o god why
> 
> You are thinking too hard
> ...



They fought many times before Raikage had tailed beast level chakra and body flicker technique, unless you can prove otherwise. 

And teleportation is not the indicator of speed superiority, especially when prime Raikage could teleport too.


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## pluuuuffff (Feb 15, 2015)

Full knowledge about each other?

Minato doesn't fall for Genjutsus. 

In other hand, if itachi wants to defend himself against hiraishin, he will need the Susano'o all the time...

Itachi is going to lose this because of his chakra reserves, simple this way.


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## V i r u s (Feb 15, 2015)

minato is stronger and faster than itachi 
I am sure That minato is better than itachi in everything

The biggest mistake in the  manga naruto is itachi , he should not be in this manga


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## KeithBarry (Feb 15, 2015)

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I think Itachi would win this. 
*
Important question: *Is Itachi allowed to walk away when Minato throws down marked kunai?

It sounds lame, but technically this would work perfectly, due to the fact Minato has to run out of kunai eventually. I don't believe in a bottomless pouch of them either, and I think the reason he never was shown to run out (that I remember), was down to plot or neglect on Kishimoto's behalf.


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## Sadgoob (Feb 15, 2015)

Minato can just teleport to his kunai, pick it up, and throw it again. Running out is something that would never ever happen. 

On the flipside, Itachi charging into an area full of marked kunai like the Raikage is also something that would never ever happen.​


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## KeithBarry (Feb 17, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Minato can just teleport to his kunai, pick it up, and throw it again. Running out is something that would never ever happen.
> 
> On the flipside, Itachi charging into an area full of marked kunai like the Raikage is also something that would never ever happen.​



I do pretty much agree with that. However, Itachi could quite possibly Amaterasu any kunai in sight, which should nullify them quite well. 

*OR*


Itachi activates Susanoo, then picks up any kunai Minato has scattered around the place.
Then pretends to throw them back at Minato, but secretly uses some sort of kunai/shuriken shadow clone technique, but only throws the fakes.
He then places the real ones at the bottom of the ocean, or under some black flames.
Trickery achieved!
Semi-Serious.


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## Icegaze (Feb 17, 2015)

Lol that won't work at all though 
While his picking them up minato drops gamabunta on him
That should create an opening . Minato lands his rasengan of the opening is created this killing 
Itachi


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## KeithBarry (Feb 19, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Lol that won't work at all though
> While his picking them up minato drops gamabunta on him
> That should create an opening . Minato lands his rasengan of the opening is created this killing
> Itachi



Can Minato actually dictate where Gamabunta is summoned though? He would have to be awfully close to Itachi if he wanted to summon Gamabunta onto him, and it's still debatable that Susanoo could sustain the weight of him (he's not free-falling from the sky). 

If Gamabunta was falling from the sky, then Itachi would simply just hold the sword of Totsuka up like a spear which would either kill or seal Gamabunta as he dropped down. I sort of see Gamabunta as a massive, pointless sacrifice in this match-up.


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## Icegaze (Feb 19, 2015)

KeithBarry said:


> Can Minato actually dictate where Gamabunta is summoned though? He would have to be awfully close to Itachi if he wanted to summon Gamabunta onto him, and it's still debatable that Susanoo could sustain the weight of him (he's not free-falling from the sky).
> 
> If Gamabunta was falling from the sky, then Itachi would simply just hold the sword of Totsuka up like a spear which would either kill or seal Gamabunta as he dropped down. I sort of see Gamabunta as a massive, pointless sacrifice in this match-up.



FCD is a technique of minato 
Read up on it 
Minato can very specifically dictate where bunta drops 
Actually he would be free calling from the sky with FCD
Like I said read up on it . You seem new here 

Bunta would hardly be a sacrifice . Itachi would have no way to know bunta is about to be summoned right above his head 
That would hRm susanoo quite abit . WhEm it's pinned down by bunta . Bubta can have a go at it 
If bunta can fight shukaku for abit before getting too beat up 
He should do just fine against itachi susanoo .


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