# Can the Sharingan and Byakugan see through Genjutsu?



## Topace (Apr 2, 2018)

Was told this wasn't stated in the manga. So I want to know everyone's opinion.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 2, 2018)

What in the hell


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## wooly Eullerex (Apr 2, 2018)

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Reactions: Funny 2


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## Speedyamell (Apr 6, 2018)

Well the sharingan confirmably can(you didn't know this??)
Byakugan can see the body system and chakra..but can't see through genjutsu..i mean it hasn't been hinted/stated anywhere.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 6, 2018)

The sharingan can

Sasuke negs Cs genjutsu on both himself and Jugo

Itachi negged Kurenais

Then there are all the times sharingan genjutsu vs sharingan happens 

Byakugan? Hell no

Nothing suggests it can and it has 0 ties to genjutsu in any form of any ability


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 6, 2018)

Oh good, the troll-hate has already started 



The problem here is that people assume the Sharingan has some unexplained, extra power that lets it see through genjutsu. It doesn't. It, literally, sees through the genjutsu. Enhanced normal vision and chakra vision both allow the Sharingan to notice inconsistencies, but even that isn't automatic.

Sasuke wasn't able to identify the genjutsu used by the rain ninja they met in the Forest of Death. He used his (2 tomoe) Sharingan, but he had to interact with the illusion first to notice it was genjutsu. 

Also, when Itachi and Sasuke were trading genjutsu, they were instantly breaking out of each other's illusion or seeing through it. Sasuke was genuinely fooled a couple of times during their sparring.

Danzo's arm full of Sharingan are what broke him out of Sasuke's MS-enhanced genjutsu, but they didn't do so automatically. Danzo really thought he was seeing Iatchi and was being burned by Amaterasu for a minute before his arm detected the illusion.




The Sharingan isn't a get out of jail free card. Otherwise, no genjutsu should work and Koto and Tsukuyomi would do nothing against other Sharingan users. That's because the Sharingan doesn't poof itself out of illusions, it's simply a tool that helps the user notice illusions.

For that reason, the Byakugan can be used to detect illusions the same way the Sharingan can (really, better since the Byakugan has better vision)

Reactions: Like 2


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 6, 2018)

No


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## Bonly (Apr 6, 2018)

Sharingan can as we have seen but not the Byakugan


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## Troyse22 (Apr 6, 2018)

Topace said:


> Was told this wasn't stated in the manga. So I want to know everyone's opinion.



Sharingan can
Byakugan can't
/Thread


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## Azula (Apr 6, 2018)

Byakugan should. Obito saw Rin's disturbed chakra network and could tell it was genjutsu.

With 360 vision Byakugan users can easily do this on themselves, they are already experts with chakra network. Don't see anything stopping them.

I think Ao also said he saw through the genjutsu on 4th Mizukage.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 6, 2018)

The thing the pro hyuuga kids are missing here is that genjutsu FUCKS WITH YOUR SENSES

So yes...Under normal circumstances a Byakugan user can see chakra flow and thus tell when OTHERS are affected...

But genjutsu is specifically designed to dick over what a person can see, smell, hear, feel and taste...

Meaning they wont know they are even under a genjutsu because relative to their own and senses vision...They wont be

The byakugan has no connection or predisposition to illusion...Unlike sharingan...

Which is why the latter beats illusion and even then ONLY with a great amount of training...As a child sasuke couldnt do it nearly as well as he could post time skip for instance.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Azula (Apr 6, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> genjutsu FUCKS WITH YOUR SENSES
> 
> So yes...Under normal circumstances a Byakugan user can see chakra flow and thus tell when OTHERS are affected...



In the Danzo fight, Karin considered the possibility that Danzo was using genjutsu and checked herself and Sasuke's chakra and then discarded the possibility. So it's still doable it seems with effort.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 6, 2018)

-Azula- said:


> In the Danzo fight, Karin considered the possibility that Danzo was using genjutsu and checked herself and Sasuke's chakra and then discarded the possibility. So it's still doable it seems with effort.


Karin has entirely unique abilities so thats a false equivalence 

She is also the only one in the entire manga who can suppress her chakra and totally hide it

No reason to give Byakugan her feats at all

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Azula (Apr 6, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Karin has entirely unique abilities so thats a false equivalence



But... her "senses" are still the same though?

If Karin is placed in a genjutsu she will be just as disturbed as any Hyuuga or any other human being in the manga? If a genjutsu is too powerful everyone is doomed but for weak to medium genjutsu they can still make an effort.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 6, 2018)

-Azula- said:


> But... her "senses" are still the same though?


She didnt use her senses to see through it...

She used her unique SENSOR ability 

Bit different than just chakra enhanced sight

Karin and other sensors have what is effectively a 6th sense

Which is my entire point on why you cant say Byakugan can do what Karin does


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 6, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> The thing the pro hyuuga kids are missing here is that genjutsu FUCKS WITH YOUR SENSES
> 
> So yes...Under normal circumstances a Byakugan user can see chakra flow and thus tell when OTHERS are affected...
> 
> ...



Nope, I didn't miss that, but every genjutsu doesn't affect every sense. 

You're talking about casting an illusion that is made to stop the target from finding out it is an illusion. Which is a trick that works on the Sharingan as well despite the fictional ability you think it has to poof itself out of any genjutsu. 



Also, you saying the Sharingan has a predisposition clashes with a person also needing extensive training to recognize and break illusions. 

Part 1 Kurenai was supposed to have genjutsu skill that rivaled Itachi's. Which should be almost impossible in the hype-world you're proposing for the Sharingan and its relationship with genjutsu. 


Sharingan can use genjutsu, but its up to the user to actually get good at it. Rinnegan can use any ninjutsu, but its up to the user to learn different jutsu. The Byakugan lets you learn an advanced style of taijutsu, but you still need to train to see tenketsu and learn to fight on your own. 

The relationship isn't as strong as it's fapped to be.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 6, 2018)

Ultrafragor said:


> Nope, I didn't miss that, but every genjutsu doesn't affect every sense


Wrong

Its a staple of genjutsu to fuck with a targets 5 senses



Ultrafragor said:


> Which is a trick that works on the Sharingan as well despite the fictional ability you think it has to poof itself out of any genjutsu


It doesnt have the ability to magically poof out of anything

Its a technique that must be learned...Kinda like how Part 1 sasuke could do ZERO genjutsu related ANYTHING in part 1 but came back essentially an illusion god after the time skip

Just like how Byakugan doesnt come with Kaiten, Juuken, or the ability to see Tenketsu installed

These are auxiliary techniques that must be learned and mastered

Same with Sharingan getting rid of illusions


Ultrafragor said:


> Also, you saying the Sharingan has a predisposition clashes with a person also needing extensive training to recognize and break illusions


No it doesnt

Its directly shown in the freaking manga with sasuke

Genjutsu is built into the sharingan...Yet he couldnt use it as a child even with 2T

He had to LEARN it

Same concept as busting out of genjutsu period


Ultrafragor said:


> Part 1 Kurenai was supposed to have genjutsu skill that rivaled Itachi's


Based on fucking what 


Ultrafragor said:


> Sharingan can use genjutsu, but its up to the user to actually get good at it


This

Does a grand job of refuting nothing that im saying


Ultrafragor said:


> Rinnegan can use any ninjutsu, but its up to the user to learn different jutsu. The Byakugan lets you learn an advanced style of taijutsu, but you still need to train to see tenketsu and learn to fight on your own.



And similarly, Byakugan has no predisposition or even vague relation to Genjutsu

Sharingan does

Hence why Sharingan can eventually be used to cast and fight illusions

And byakugan cant


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## Troyse22 (Apr 6, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Wrong
> 
> Its a staple of genjutsu to fuck with a targets 5 senses
> 
> ...



While I agree with the notion that Genjutsu always effects the five senses (if it didn't it would be very easy to detect and thus it's just a matter of breaking it)

But Jiraiya's knowledge of genjutsu is limited, he himself notes this "it's a shame i'm just a big dud when it comes to Genjutsu" or something along those lines. His method of breaking genjutsu is also shown to be ineffective in the face of medium+level genjutsu.

While I think he's extremely credible when it comes to other things, Genjutsu is certainly not one of them. Citing him as the sole source of your point is a bad idea.

No disrespect my frenemy

@Ultrafragor 



Sasuke was able to see through, and not only see through, but outright break one of the most powerful Genjutsu's in the manga with simple 3 Tomoe

The Ao situation is for the most part outlier. Obito's Genjutsu was so powerful that he was able to control a perfect Jinchuuriki. If the Bijuu inside of Yagura couldn't see through it, it doesn't make sense that Ao could either. Pure outlier in a failed attempt to hype up an otherwise irrelevant Dojutsu (Byakugan)

Ao "seeing through" the genjutsu is the Dojutsu equivalent of Sakura hitting Kaguya. Outlier.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 6, 2018)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Wrong
> 
> Its a staple of genjutsu to fuck with a targets 5 senses
> 
> ...



1) having the potential to affect anti of the senses doesn't mean every illusion is doing all of that to the target. How do you too characters are noticing illusions if even the most basic ones are warping every sense to obscure itself along with reality? 

2) The crux of this is how the Sharingan sees through genjutsu. That's the disagreement and other parts of the argument are being built off of that. 

Sasuke was able to recognize genjutsu with the Sharingan in the Forest of Death long before he ever cast a genjutsu. "Seeing" through illusions is an innate ability of the Sharingan if Sasuke could do it with 2-tomoe. It doesn't need to be learned. 

The Sharingan sees through taijutsu by gathering visual info and it sees through ninjutsu by gathering visual info. Both times, it's observating chakra flow, chakra build up, body movements, ect. So, why am I supposed to believe it's using a different process to see through genjutsu when that already completely explains everything perfectly and fits with the rest of the Sharingan's powers? 

Can you just address that point, because it feels like you're using backwards logic to try and prove your initial conclusion instead of seeing what makes sense.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 6, 2018)

Troyse22 said:


> While I agree with the notion that Genjutsu always effects the five senses (if it didn't it would be very easy to detect and thus it's just a matter of breaking it)
> 
> But Jiraiya's knowledge of genjutsu is limited, he himself notes this "it's a shame i'm just a big dud when it comes to Genjutsu" or something along those lines. His method of breaking genjutsu is also shown to be ineffective in the face of medium+level genjutsu.
> 
> ...



The question here is how it sees through genjutsu. 

And it seems like you're confusing what it means for Ao to see through the genjutsu placed on Yagura. 

Ao noticed Yagura was under genjutsu. Which isn't really a feat. If you can see chakra flow, that's automatic genjutsu detection. 

I guess the feat is supposed to be that, for years, no other ninja or sensor ninja around Yagura noticed he was under a genjutsu, but the Byakugan detected it on sight? 

Either way, that's not relevant to this discussion right now and I didn't even bring it up


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## Gin Ichimaru's Shadow (Apr 6, 2018)

Topace said:


> Was told this wasn't stated in the manga. So I want to know everyone's opinion.


Sharingan can. Doing things, that Itachi did(reversing Genjutsu) require to decipher Genjutsu(see through it) in order to counter. 
Byakugan can see Chakra and is better than Sharingan during fight in mist, but it can't see through Genjutsu.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 6, 2018)

If the user is skilled enough both if them probably can. 

Haven't they both been stated to do so?


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 6, 2018)

Sharingan can see through it because it's a Genjutsu mastering Dojutsu. It sees through a lot, like physical movement, high speed hand seals, properties (Kakashi anaylzing FRS) and movement of jutsu, and can see chakra through objects. The only technique directly granted from the basic Sharingan is it's Genjutsu, it's called Genjutsu: Sharingan and even fodder had it.

Sasuke has broken many Genjutsu techniques with his Sharingan. He has also remote controlled people to reveal secrets, paralyzed people, and compromised *all of their senses* (hearing, touch, sight) in combat putting them in a completely fabricated world, one that often results in the opponent feeling pain (being burned alive [Itachi's Genjutsu on Kakashi clone]) or feeling as if they're retrained (resulting in paralysis like Tayuya's flute), which compromises their capabilities even more because the mind thinks it's being burned alive or it's restrained, and thus they feel the pain and are incapable of moving on top of the fact they cannot sense anything that is going on around them. 

Byakugan can't, it only displays visible chakra around the user, in the user, in jutsu, and in other people, and allows them to see through matter very very far away.

Genjutsu is illusions. It's a manipulation of the part of the brain that registers what is going on around them. It doesn't matter how well you can see, if you're seeing things that isn't actually there, or not at all (Hashirama's Genjutsu) your sight is compromised. Byakugan is useless against it.

If you're caught in an elite Genjutsu (MS Sharingan) none of your senses matter at all. You are essentially teleported into a different dimension completely separate from your surroundings. It doesn't matter if you're the best chakra sensor in the world you are now incapable of sensing anything in the world around you.

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## Miserea (Apr 7, 2018)

Deidara was able to train his normal eye to see through genjutsu somehow (depriving it normally so it's more sensitive/cut off when used?). That should say something of it being more of a technique than a perk, even if dojutsu are obviously going to have an extra angle to work with regarding how they do it.

So if it's going with Sasuke's figure of speech I don't see why a Byakugan user couldn't given they're more skilled than the caster. To make it so that a good Byakugan user couldn't see inconsistencies the caster would have to feed them sensory data on their own chakra network as well as make them see chakra networks on any person shown in the illusion as well. If they're physically seeing someone in front of them but not able to see the chakra inside them it's a pretty big giveaway. 

Then if you're talking about someone like Neji or other kaiten users, he has such control over his chakra network he can funnel chakra out from any point on his body and if what's perceived isn't matching up with his intent it'll be apparent somethings wrong. Though that's a vague "wrong". How fast they figure out what it means would depend on the individual.

Though if you mean more along the lines of "literally can they see physically outside the illusion" I doubt either can, it should be more about noticing, countering or breaking it, depending on the type of genjutsu.


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## Mithos (Apr 7, 2018)

There have never been any indications that the Byakugan or the Hyuga are resistant to genjutsu. The Byakugan doesn't counter/see through techniques in the same way as the Sharingan, so I don't think it would see through genjutsu. Perceptive sight is great, but if the opponent has hold of the Hyuga's chakra and can manipulate what they see, that perceptive sight isn't going to help necessarily. 

There's also the fact that knowing one is caught in an illusion doesn't guarantee they can break the opponent's hold over their chakra and snap themselves out. So even if the Byakugan helped a Hyuga realize they were being bound by a binding genjutsu they wouldn't necessarily be able to escape.


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## hbcaptain (Apr 8, 2018)

Byakugan can see chakra flow, therefore it allows the user to see wether himself or a compagnion is put under Genjutsu or not. In other hands, no it doesn't allow to see through the illusion itself.
Sharingan in other hands can see both chakra flow (not with the same precision of the Byakugan) and through the Genjutsu as we would see multiple times in the manga.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 8, 2018)

This thread is a cesspit of misinformation.

All we have from the manga is only that Sharingan vision can "penetrate" any jutsu it sees, then that the Byakugan has "penetrating" vision that far surpasses the Sharingan.

You can interpret that as implying the Byakugan must be able to see through genjutsu or you can be skeptical and decide that you don't believe it can because it wasn't specifically stated.

Past that, not even my analysis or interpretation is fool proof.

All these statements about the Sharingan having some special (but conveniently unexplainable) relationship to genjutsu are fanon. The Sharingan can see through genjutsu, but the mechanics of that were never stated or implied to be any different than "seeing through" a ninjutsu or taijutsu.

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## Kai (Apr 8, 2018)

Ultrafragor said:


> All these statements about the Sharingan having some special (but conveniently unexplainable) relationship to genjutsu are fanon. The Sharingan can see through genjutsu, but the mechanics of that were never stated or implied to be any different than "seeing through" a ninjutsu or taijutsu.




Challenging basic facts that were established as an early foundation in the series will get you nowhere.


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## Ultrafragor (Apr 8, 2018)

Kai said:


> Challenging basic facts that were established as an early foundation in the series will get you nowhere.



Can you verify that these are facts? 

Can anyone? 

Can anyone here show that the Sharingan was stated to have a different relationship to genjutsu than only what is implied by the panels and statements that just say it can "see through" and "penetrate" illusions? Because that's the same stuff it says about the Sharingan seeing through ninjutsu and taijutsu. So, that doesn't suggest anything about it using a different method to analyze genjutsu.


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