# Zoro vs Sabo



## Great Potato (Jan 17, 2021)

Now that Zoro has stolen the Foxfire style from Kinemon, how do you see this fight go down?

Reactions: Creative 1 | GODA 1


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## Corax (Jan 17, 2021)

Idk. Zoro might win due to extreme match up advantage. Post Wano Zoro of course. He still has to level up Enma in his fight vs Kaido.


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## VileNotice (Jan 17, 2021)

Probably Zoro extreme diffs. Without foxfire Sabo wins high diff


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## Lurko (Jan 17, 2021)

Sabo for now.


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## JustSumGuy (Jan 17, 2021)

Personally, I think Sabo still wins.

I think Sabo will represent what Ace could’ve been so I think I’ll always have him over Zoro.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Shunsuiju (Jan 17, 2021)

Zoro will have to show more from Enma before defeating Sabo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ice demon slayer (Jan 17, 2021)

Zoro extreme diff


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## bil02 (Jan 17, 2021)

Dragon breath for the win.


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## muchentuchen (Jan 17, 2021)

Tough call considering Sabo >> Luffy but...Zoro has that firecutting style now and the hidden bankai. Zoro wins.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Strobacaxi (Jan 17, 2021)

Sabo wins. He spent his entire life without a DF and using a fucking pipe as a weapon, his CoA is definitely at least on Luffy's level and his CoO should be around that too.

I see Sabo as an extreme diff fight for Luffy currently

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## convict (Jan 17, 2021)

Post Rooftop Zoro wins. Currently Sabo beats him.


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## Draco Bolton (Jan 17, 2021)

Extrem diff either way.


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## OG sama (Jan 17, 2021)

Shit if he can cut a Yonkos best weapon like butter then honestly he’s probably cutting through any fire attack even easier...

But with what he’s shown so far, he’s lacking the speed or mobility to beat Sabo, he might be able to draw out more power from Emma and hurt Sabo but his attacks are going to have a hard time connecting I feel like.

Sabo I guess

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Just because zoro can cut fire now doesn't mean he completely negates the mera fruit, its extremely versatile, as shown by ace. Sabos armament is definitely better than zoros and his observation probably is to, since zoros observation haki is lackluster.
Even If the mera is out of the question, (which it won't be), ryosuken seems pretty powerful against zoro.
Also they fought the same character, zoro got low diffed, and drew blood from a single attack, whereas sabo held his own against him them proceeded to leave him in bandages after their next skirmish.
Also sabo isn't an overconfident logia user and is very experienced with h2h combat and using his pipe. 
Sabo mid (high) diffs him.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 18, 2021)

Current zoro still loses. Give him less than 10 chapters though and he will win


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## Beast (Jan 18, 2021)

Sabo high diff at worst.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Intus Legere (Jan 18, 2021)

I think Zoro completely negates the Mera fruit, or at least negates it enough that fire attacks become more of a liability than anything.

But the problem is, does Sabo really need the mera fruit to defeat Zoro to begin with? Judging by the feats shown Sabo doesn't need it, but Zoro is about to fight Kaido and he may show enough power that makes me think otherwise.


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 18, 2021)

Intus Legere said:


> I think Zoro completely negates the Mera fruit, or at least negates it enough that fire attacks become more of a liability than anything.
> 
> But the problem is, does Sabo really need the mera fruit to defeat Zoro to begin with? Judging by the feats shown Sabo doesn't need it, but Zoro is about to fight Kaido and he may show enough power that makes me think otherwise.


No, zoro does not completely negate the mera fruit. 
What can he do against fireflies, or how can he cut fire bullets (requires extreme speed and precision to cut each bullet?) I doubt he can completely cut enkai in half,without taking considerable damage, the aoe is too large. 

There are so many attacks with the mera fruit and since sabo is probably more intelligent than ace so he can utilise it even better, in fact within his first day if receiving it he already starting merging mera with his fighting style (ryosuken) which zoro has no answer to. Face it, RS sanji would be a better matchup and he would still get mid diffed.


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## Mihawk (Jan 18, 2021)

With all the recent portrayal that Ace has been getting, if we assume Sabo's gonna do him one better via trajectory, then he might be close to being equal to the strongest first mate. I can't imagine Zoro's already a top 3 first mate in the world, so im inclined to give it to Sabo based on portrayal.

It's shaky of course, and firefox helps a great deal, but we haven't seen how long and to what extent that Zoro has mastered the technique. Sabo should be capable of doing something crazy with the Mera Mera soon. Enkai seems like a big deal, and he'd probably have more to come. 

I'd probs give it to Sabo for a bit longer, but Zoro's on his way.


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## VileNotice (Jan 18, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> No, zoro does not completely negate the mera fruit.
> What can he do against fireflies, or how can he cut fire bullets (requires extreme speed and precision to cut each bullet?) I doubt he can completely cut enkai in half,without taking considerable damage, the aoe is too large.
> 
> There are so many attacks with the mera fruit and since sabo is probably more intelligent than ace so he can utilise it even better, in fact within his first day if receiving it he already starting merging mera with his fighting style (ryosuken) which zoro has no answer to. Face it, RS sanji would be a better matchup and he would still get mid diffed.


You can’t assume Sabo has all of Ace’s attacks, he’s still learning the fruit.


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 18, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> You can’t assume Sabo has all of Ace’s attacks, he’s still learning the fruit.


Yeah but he has the potential to use the fruit even better than ace did, since he's smarter and can infuse ryosuken into his attacks making them even deadlier. By combining his mastery of ryosuken with his novice mastery of mera he can make up with the lack of experience with mera since ryosuken compliments mera.


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## VileNotice (Jan 18, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Yeah but he has the potential to use the fruit even better than ace did, since he's smarter and can infuse ryosuken into his attacks making them even deadlier. By combining his mastery of ryosuken with his novice mastery of mera he can make up with the lack of experience with mera since ryosuken compliments mera.


Yeah I think he has admiral level potential with the fruit, but he's not quite there yet. Without mera I place him around YC3 or YC2 which is likely below Zoro at this point.

The thing is foxfire style not only cuts his attacks but probably does critical damage to him as well since his body is now flame, even if he's not offensively using the fruit. If ALL of Zoro's attacks now have that quality he has an extreme matchup advantage.


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## bil02 (Jan 19, 2021)

Sabo is not Ace so not useless without his df. The guy still got his pipe to clash in Cqc with Zoro and his Ryuu Souken which is plenty deadly.
The last time we saw him training was before the infiltration in Mariejoa and judging by Fujitora's state post Reverie,it is clear Sabo and his guys did some heavy damage impying Sabo himself got stronger.
I have Sabo beating Zoro right now and even post Wano too.


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## Delta Shell (Jan 19, 2021)

For now I think Sabo is portrayed stronger. Going with the crowd a little bit but I may change my answer post rooftop.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord Melkor (Jan 19, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Yeah I think he has admiral level potential with the fruit, but he's not quite there yet. Without mera I place him around YC3 or YC2 which is likely below Zoro at this point.
> 
> The thing is foxfire style not only cuts his attacks but probably does critical damage to him as well since his body is now flame, even if he's not offensively using the fruit. If ALL of Zoro's attacks now have that quality he has an extreme matchup advantage.



I do not think all attacks have it. He needs to use special technique for it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Intus Legere (Jan 19, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> No, zoro does not completely negate the mera fruit.



"I think Zoro completely negates the Mera fruit, *or at least negates it enough that fire attacks become more of a liability than anything.*"



TheRealSJ said:


> What can he do against fireflies, or how can he cut fire bullets (requires extreme speed and precision to cut each bullet?)



Probably whatever he does to defend against bullets and bombs. You're assuming that Sabo even knows this attack and it's not like Hotarubi is one of Mera's strongest attacks.



TheRealSJ said:


> I doubt he can completely cut enkai in half,without taking considerable damage, the aoe is too large.



Enkai isn't instantaneous, AOE isn't a problem for someone who cuts through objects as large as mountains from afar. Sabo would have to build up the attack which can easily be cut through, which is why I said it's more of a liability than anything.

I think you're underestimating Prometheus. Enkai is probably a step down from what Prometheus can do. If Zoro can cut the fire weapon of a Yonko, he can cut Enkai. If what Prometheus can do is below the level of damage that Ace or Sabo can dish out with Enkai, then Big Mom is better out using regular attacks.



TheRealSJ said:


> Face it, RS sanji would be a better matchup and he would still get mid diffed.



Seems like you have a grudge against Zoro, but hey, whatever floats your boat.


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## Great Potato (Jan 19, 2021)

Kinemon made light of Kaido's Boro Breath and damaged him in the same stroke, so it's hard for me to see any fire attack being too much for Zoro to handle if he has the technique down.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 19, 2021)

Intus Legere said:


> "I think Zoro completely negates the Mera fruit, *or at least negates it enough that fire attacks become more of a liability than anything.*"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saying that prometheus, a fire homie, is more powerful then a rare logia devil fruit based entirely off fire is pure headcanon, and you can't just assume that zoro can implement cutting fire into everyone of his attacks, when kinemon (the owner of the technique) hasn't done anything of the sort, especially when it's just been shown to be a special technique. 
I'm terms of haki let's be real, off portrayal sabo dominates. Like I said zoros observation haki is lackluster and his armament haki isn't in the level of sabos - who's is the same or arguably better than Luffy's. 

Sabo is just too offensively powerful for zoro to handle, he has so many options to attack with, especially when Zoro got ko'ed from a single sword wound from killer and an upset stomach. What do you expect him to do against CoA 3.0.
Besides zoros best feat is cutting done of doflamingo subordinates in half whereas sabos best feat is leaving an admiral level character is bandages, this shouldn't even be a thread I thought it was clear sabo is stronger than Zorro.


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## OG sama (Jan 19, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Saying that prometheus, a fire homie, is more powerful then a rare logia devil fruit based entirely off fire is pure headcanon, and you can't just assume that zoro can implement cutting fire into everyone of his attacks, when kinemon (the owner of the technique) hasn't done anything of the sort, especially when it's just been shown to be a special technique.
> I'm terms of haki let's be real, off portrayal sabo dominates. Like I said zoros observation haki is lackluster and his armament haki isn't in the level of sabos - who's is the same or arguably better than Luffy's.
> 
> Sabo is just too offensively powerful for zoro to handle, he has so many options to attack with, especially when Zoro got ko'ed from a single sword wound from killer and an upset stomach. What do you expect him to do against CoA 3.0.
> Besides zoros best feat is cutting done of doflamingo subordinates in half whereas sabos best feat is leaving an admiral level character is bandages, this shouldn't even be a thread I thought it was clear sabo is stronger than Zorro.


Wait what? Prometheus is a pure elemental, if anything he’s more fire than a fire logia is.

And he’s one of BMs main weapons... you saying that the Mera Mera is not only stronger but significantly stronger than a Yonkos signature weapon???

If Zoro can cut Prometheus, BMs main weapon, he really shouldn’t have trouble cutting through any of Sabos fire attacks.

I still think Sabo wins because he won’t really need to rely on the fruit but damn y’all sure do sell Top Tiers short when it suits y’all argument and then hold them in high esteem when it only suits your argument.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shanks (Jan 19, 2021)

Post Wano, Zoro is at best low FM level - i.e King. Sabo is way above that. Cutting fire just means he can cut range fire attacks. Sabo can kick or punch him close range with fire + coa and it will do the trick.

When Zoro shows potential to cut thru Red Roc, then we might be able to talk.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Furinji Saiga (Jan 19, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kinemon made light of Kaido's Boro Breath and damaged him in the same stroke, so it's hard for me to see any fire attack being too much for Zoro to handle if he has the technique down.


Especially when Zoro is capable of  slashes far far far greater in scale than Kinemon. 

Kinemon was in complete awe at the AoE of Zoro back in Dressrosa.


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## Intus Legere (Jan 19, 2021)

OG sama said:


> And he’s one of BMs main weapons... you saying that the Mera Mera is not only stronger but significantly stronger than a Yonkos signature weapon???
> 
> If Zoro can cut Prometheus, BMs main weapon, he really shouldn’t have trouble cutting through any of Sabos fire attacks.



That's it. Prometheus is the weapon of a Yonko, so it's supposed to be able to hurt another Yonko at least. Yet some people make it seem as if Ace's Dai Enkai, a first mate level attack at best, is stronger than what Prometheus can do.

The way some people talk about it, Prometheus seems to be more of a nerf to Big Mom, and she would be better of with regular punches or sword slashes.




TheRealSJ said:


> Saying that prometheus, a fire homie, is more powerful then a rare logia devil fruit based entirely off fire is pure headcanon, and you can't just assume that zoro can implement cutting fire into everyone of his attacks, when kinemon (the owner of the technique) hasn't done anything of the sort, especially when it's just been shown to be a special technique.
> I'm terms of haki let's be real, off portrayal sabo dominates. Like I said zoros observation haki is lackluster and his armament haki isn't in the level of sabos - who's is the same or arguably better than Luffy's.
> 
> Sabo is just too offensively powerful for zoro to handle, he has so many options to attack with, especially when Zoro got ko'ed from a single sword wound from killer and an upset stomach. What do you expect him to do against CoA 3.0.
> Besides zoros best feat is cutting done of doflamingo subordinates in half whereas sabos best feat is leaving an admiral level character is bandages, this shouldn't even be a thread I thought it was clear sabo is stronger than Zorro.



I think you're heavily underestimating Prometheus, the weapon of a Yonko. As for the rest, just so you know, I said that "Sabo doesn't need it" (the mera fruit to beat Zoro) so I'm not sure what you're on about or why.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 19, 2021)

Sabo caves his head in with his pipe.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 20, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Wait what? *Prometheus is a pure elemental, i*f anything he’s more fire than a fire logia is.
> 
> And he’s one of BMs main weapons... you saying that the Mera Mera is not only stronger but significantly stronger than a Yonkos signature weapon???
> 
> ...


Since prometheus is a pure elemental, I guess sabo should be able to control him since he can create, control and transform into fire at will. If so, you've wasted your time arguing.


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## Mylesime (Jan 20, 2021)

Currently?
Sabo mid diff.
He's a top tier, doesn't rely on his newly acquired devil fruit, who can still be effective in this match up if used effectively.
Sabo has displayed Coa level 3 feats and is basically currently what Ace would have been with two years more.
Sabo is stronger than Luffy at the moment.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## OG sama (Jan 20, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Currently?
> Sabo mid diff.
> He's a top tier, doesn't rely on his newly acquired devil fruit, who can still be effective in this match up if used effectively.
> Sabo has displayed Coa level 3 feats and is basically currently what Ace would have been with two years more.
> Sabo is stronger than Luffy at the moment.


Sabo doesn’t have the mastery over his devil fruit the way Luffy does, he’s a Low Top Tier and on the exact same level Luffy is currently on imo.

How is Sabo going to be a Top Tier when he just got his fruit, he hasn’t even awakened yet and shouldn’t be closer to an Awakening his fruit than Luffy is.

Sabo was definitely ahead during DR and WCI but now? Not too sure, I got to imagine Luffy is going to be getting serious gains by the time the arc is over with Kaidos defeat that I don’t see Sabo getting from not beating Fuji.

After this arc is done it’s going to be real hard to argue against Luffy, Luffy will have  all kinds of feats against Kaido to scale while all we know is that Sabo gave Fujitora some bruises.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mylesime (Jan 20, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Sabo doesn’t have the mastery over his devil fruit the way Luffy does, he’s a Low Top Tier and on the exact same level Luffy is currently on imo.
> 
> How is Sabo going to be a Top Tier when he just got his fruit, he hasn’t even awakened yet and shouldn’t be closer to an Awakening his fruit than Luffy is.
> 
> Sabo was definitely ahead during DR and WCI but now? Not too sure, I got to imagine Luffy is going to be getting serious gains by the time the arc is over with Kaidos defeat that I don’t see Sabo getting from not beating Fuji.



It's strange.
Luffy  had even less time than Sabo had for honing his skills with his devil fruit,  when it comes to his advanced armement.
I'm sure Luffy is a better devil fruit user, but Sabo should be significantly more skilled when it comes to advanced armement.
Anyway i view Luffy as a top tier too. Not a big gap between  them, i'd still favor Sabo.
He's portrayed as being clearly able to fight admirals.
Which means that he's a step above Zoro.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## OG sama (Jan 20, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> It's strange.
> Luffy  had even less time than Sabo had for honing his skills with his devil fruit,  when it comes to his advanced armement.
> I'm sure Luffy is a better devil fruit user, but Sabo should be significantly more skilled when it comes to advanced armement.
> Anyway i view Luffy as a top tier too. Not a big gap between  them, i'd still favor Sabo.
> ...


I made a thread about it and honestly it could probably go either way of Sabo is stronger I can imagine it’s possible but I kinda envision it being extremely close.

And that’s kinda how it is being the MC, Luffy isn’t exactly going to have time to just keep getting progressively better at Advanced Armament he will just fight much stronger people like he is now allowing it to just get much better much faster.

So saying all that, beating Kaido and even BM and Kaido and getting a Haki blooming moment which may come with a mid arc power up is enough imo to put Luffys Haki and strength ahead of Sabos. Because Sabo didn’t actually beat Fuji he just gave him a few bandages which is still impressive but that won’t be more impressive than actually beating and possibly surpassing Kaido this arc, I got to imagine a mid arc power up like a G5 or an awakening would turn Luffy into a Legit Top Tier, with a huge drawback I imagine.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Mylesime (Jan 20, 2021)

Luffy is not the only one to evolve, when he baptizes his opponents and deals with their mid life crisis, his adversaries grow too (Crocodile, Katakuri, Enel, etc), progress and are changed to their core.
Sabo is one of the few characters with comparable growth potential, similar age, etc.
Compared to luffy.
Being a slightly inferior version of Ace, and being a huge part of important plot points. He's evolving too.
Honestly i see him being very close to Luffy to this point until the end of the story.
Luffy is a top tier now, so i don't really see him losing anymore in the story.
However Sabo has a very good chance of ending up stronger than Kidd, Law , Sanji or Zoro eos, heck he's younger than Law if i remember correctly.
Sabo is legit.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Wayne With The Ism (Jan 20, 2021)

Sabo was reintroduced for a reason. He's portrayed to be stronger than current Zoro and arguably Luffy. Sabo was part of the original monster trio of Ace, Luffy, and Sabo.


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## Djomla (Jan 20, 2021)

Sabo uses haki claws and crushes all the sword. Then beatdown.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 20, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> Kinemon made light of Kaido's Boro Breath and damaged him in the same stroke, so it's hard for me to see any fire attack being too much for Zoro to handle if he has the technique down.


By that logic Kinemon beats Sabo as well?


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## Great Potato (Jan 20, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> By that logic Kinemon beats Sabo as well?



I never even claimed that Zoro would win the fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 20, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Sabo caves his head in with his pipe.


B- b- but you’re meant to ZT commander.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 20, 2021)

Beast said:


> B- b- but you’re meant to ZT commander.



Believe it or not my standards for Zoro are quite reasonable. 

Me saying shit like Zoro one shots kaidou or something is just me trolling

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4


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## Jackalinthebox (Jan 20, 2021)

Sabo still takes it more times than not. Has the better stats and Haki


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 20, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Post Wano, Zoro is at best low FM level - i.e King. Sabo is way above that. Cutting fire just means he can cut range fire attacks. Sabo can kick or punch him close range with fire + coa and it will do the trick.
> 
> When Zoro shows potential to cut thru Red Roc, then we might be able to talk.


Bruh what, current Zoro shits on King. Current Zoro loses to Sabo but it give it some chapters and Zoro will win.

In fact, Current Zoro would be Sabo only because he’ll learn how to use Enma probably mid-fight. Just like he will in the manga soon

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 20, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Bruh what, current Zoro shits on King. Current Zoro loses to Sabo but it give it some chapters and Zoro will win.
> 
> In fact, Current Zoro would be Sabo only because he’ll learn how to use Enma probably mid-fight. Just like he will in the manga soon


If shanks can use the same haki sabo utilises to stop a magma fist, (the most offensive devil fruit power), from an admiral effortlessly - Enma won't do shit to sabo armament and his dragon claw


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## Fel1x (Jan 20, 2021)

Sabo is close to a top tier even without the fruit. with fruit he is solid top tier

Sabo wins any way. this guy was using advanced CoA before Oda even presented this haki to us


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 20, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If shanks can use the same haki sabo utilises to stop a magma fist, (the most offensive devil fruit power), from an admiral effortlessly - Enma won't do shit to sabo armament and his dragon claw


Same form of haki =\= same strength with that haki

Reactions: Like 3


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 21, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> I never even claimed that Zoro would win the fight.


My bad, but you're implying that Kinemon would be able to cut through any of Sabo's mera attacks, correct?


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## Beast (Jan 21, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Believe it or not my standards for Zoro are quite reasonable.
> 
> Me saying shit like Zoro one shots kaidou or something is just me trolling


Lol reasonable sometimes  

I was only joking, though it did surprise me, guess it just depends on whether you have Sabo over/ equal to/ weaker then luffy.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 21, 2021)

Beast said:


> Lol reasonable sometimes
> 
> I was only joking, though it did surprise me, guess it just depends on whether you have Sabo over/ equal to/ weaker then luffy.



Sabo high diffs Luffy currently. 

Post Wano Luffy probably wins.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Jan 21, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If shanks can use the same haki sabo utilises to stop a magma fist


As shown by Katakuri, there are different levels to haki. Luffy and Katakuri were both using hardening, yet Katakuri was consistently hurting Luffy over his CoA.

Just because Sabo and Shanks can use the same CoA type doesn't mean Sabo's haki is remotely as strong as Shanks' and does not mean he can casually stop Akainu's punches


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## Great Potato (Jan 21, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> My bad, but you're implying that Kinemon would be able to cut through any of Sabo's mera attacks, correct?



The fact that it no-sold the Boro Breath which is the mountain busting attack from a Yonko shows that the upper limit of the technique is insanely high, so I think it would work on any of the ranged techniques we've seen from Sabo or Ace so far. Sabo would still manhandle Kinemon in a fight though.

Zoro and Kinemon are good counters for the Mera Mera, which is why I thought it could be an interesting match-up even though I have Zoro weaker overall. Sabo still has a path to victory because he made to Chief of Staff on his physicals before getting the fruit and he can still burn because Sabo has close quarters Mera techniques for when they're already in his grip. I just don't think he's going to find any success with the strategy of hanging back and trying to throw a lot of fire his direction, it's likely going to backfire on like it did for Kaido if he tries.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 22, 2021)

Great Potato said:


> The fact that it no-sold the Boro Breath which is the mountain busting attack from a Yonko shows that the upper limit of the technique is insanely high, so I think it would work on any of the ranged techniques we've seen from Sabo or Ace so far. Sabo would still manhandle Kinemon in a fight though.
> 
> Zoro and Kinemon are good counters for the Mera Mera, which is why I thought it could be an interesting match-up even though I have Zoro weaker overall. Sabo still has a path to victory because he made to Chief of Staff on his physicals before getting the fruit and he can still burn because Sabo has close quarters Mera techniques for when they're already in his grip. I just don't think he's going to find any success with the strategy of hanging back and trying to throw a lot of fire his direction, it's likely going to backfire on like it did for Kaido if he tries.


Fair enough.

You're probably right about some of Sabo's long range mera attacks being canceled out, but long range doesn't seem to be his style, he's much more CqC orientated than Ace was and it seems to be that Zoro can only do it with a named attack at the moment though, which prompts me to believe that Sabo can fire off attacks faster than Zoro can bust out the move. For the same reason, in terms of defense, he could split his logia body to avoid the slash or simply dodge out of the way.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

Zoro was able to push Fujitora back and overpower his gravity on Dressrosa, meanwhile Sabo on Dressorsa couldn't push back Fujitora or overpower his gravity. However we did see Sabo train after Dressrosa so he probably did get stronger, and he seemed to have a better performance against Fujitora on Reverie. On the other hand, Zoro has also gotten stronger since Dressrosa.

So I'll give Zoro the win, high difficulty.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro was able to push Fujitora back and overpower his gravity on Dressrosa, meanwhile Sabo on Dressorsa couldn't push back Fujitora or overpower his gravity. However we did see Sabo train after Dressrosa so he probably did get stronger, and he seemed to have a better performance against Fujitora on Reverie. On the other hand, Zoro has also gotten stronger since Dressrosa.
> 
> So I'll give Zoro the win, high difficulty.


I'm not sure whether to laugh or lose faith in humanity

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Wayne With The Ism (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro was able to push Fujitora back and overpower his gravity on Dressrosa, meanwhile Sabo on Dressorsa couldn't push back Fujitora or overpower his gravity. However we did see Sabo train after Dressrosa so he probably did get stronger, and he seemed to have a better performance against Fujitora on Reverie. On the other hand, Zoro has also gotten stronger since Dressrosa.
> 
> So I'll give Zoro the win, high difficulty.


Lol. The fight is debatable even for current Luffy vs Sabo . Zoro is not beating Sabo. Sabo actually fought Fuji not just a little exchange. Post Wano is more realistic. It comes down to stronger CoA and Sabo already has already shown ryou when he broke the coliseum, pre-mera mera. I'm a big Zoro fan but current Zoro is not stronger than Luffy's older brother. Right hand man to the  most wanted man in the world. Portrayal wise Sabo is no pushover. Save these debates for when Zoro is confirmed Yonkou fm level.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> I'm not sure whether to laugh or lose faith in humanity



Post a panel of Dressrosa Sabo pushing back Fujitora and overpowering his gravity or stop wasting my time.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

Wayne With The Ism said:


> Lol. The fight is debatable even for current Luffy vs Sabo . Zoro is not beating Sabo. Sabo actually fought Fuji not just a little exchange. Post Wano is more realistic. It comes down to stronger CoA and Sabo already has already show ryou when he broke the coliseum, pre-mera mera. I'm the big Zoro fan but current Zoro is not stronger than Luffy's keeper, his older brother. Right hand man to the  most wanted man in the world. Portrayal wise Sabo is no pushover.



See above. Post panels or don't waste my time.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Jan 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> I'm not sure whether to laugh or lose faith in humanity


Zoro is strong, but the delusional Zoro fans need to understand he's not Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wayne With The Ism (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> See above. Post panels or don't waste my time.


I don't need to post panels to win this obviously one sided debate. You just have a Zoro fetish.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

Wayne With The Ism said:


> I don't need to post panels to win this obviously one sided debate. You just have a Zoro fetish.



The reason you don't want to post panels if because nothing in the manga supports the nonsense that you're saying. Take your L and get out of my sight.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Wayne With The Ism (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> The reason you don't want to post panels if because nothing in the manga supports the nonsense that you're saying. Take your L and get out of my sight.


Just to end it. Sabo is right hand man to the son of Garp. Sure, Dragon has no feats, but think about Oda' writing. The strongest EoS characters are all the newer generation and Sabo isn't much older than Luffy. Sabo is the reincarnation of a calm and collected Ace, with Haki. Sabo will outwit Zoro. Luffy's father trained the boy. Garp trained them as kids. They're the original M3. He's tied to to the most powerful characters in the entire series, including Luffy. Your ego is making you delusional. You could have came up with Zoro's current feats but I won't spoil. Some arguments. Kid, it's not about dubs and L's. Lol. You are a lazy poster and debater coming back with one sentence lines, who barely post anything relative to your original argument. Matter of fact, I'm done, unless you can prove to me you are a real debater and come up with something that can really change my mind, go outside and get some fresh air. If you're mad I called you a kid, its because only kids reply the way you do.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

Wayne With The Ism said:


> You're talking nonsense from Dressrosa.



How is talking about what Oda has written in his own story nonsense? You know this story better than the author? Oda drew Zoro overpowering Fujitora's gravity and pushing Fujitora back to the point that Fujitora was shivering in fear. Oda then drew Dressrosa Sabo being unable to avoid Fujitora's gravity and being unable to push Fujitora back, that's a fact.

You say that my ego is making me delusional, but you're the one denying what the author of One Piece has drawn and written in his own story, going so far as to call it "nonsense". Which means that you're the one with the ego since you think you know One Piece better than Oda, and it also makes you a hypocrite who lacks any self awareness.

Now for the last time, either provide panels of Dressrosa Sabo overpowering Fujitora's gravity and pushing Fujitora back or stop wasting my time. I can't be any more clear than this. Zoro's feats on Dressrosa are canon whether you like it or not and no amount of crying and whining on your part is gonna change it.


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Post a panel of Dressrosa Sabo pushing back Fujitora and overpowering his gravity or stop wasting my time.


Post a panel of Dressrosa sabo getting blood drawn by fuji by a single attack and lay off the weed. And since you clearly lack basic reading comprehension skills, here is a video of how sabo reacts to Fuji's gravity.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Post a panel of Dressrosa sabo getting blood drawn by fuji by a single attack and lay off the weed.



This is a stupid request, especially when Sabo himself admitted that Fujitora was not trying to fight him and was simply stalling so Luffy could have enough time to defeat Doflamingo. Are you sure you have read Dressrosa? I'd recommend a re-read on your part because you're clearly unable to remember basic facts from that arc.





TheRealSJ said:


> And since you clearly lack basic reading comprehension skills, here is a video of how sabo reacts to Fuji's gravity.



You claim I lack basic reading comprehension but you link an anime scene when I ask for a canon manga panel, how embarrassing. We use canon manga panels in the battledome, not anime scenes that may or may not contain filler. So I will not waste a second watching your Youtube video, search for manga panels or stop wasting my time.

Since you're struggling to comprehend basic English, I'll do your homework for you. Here's a panel in the manga that clearly demonstrates that Sabo doesn't have the physical strength to overpower Fujitora's gravity and needs to use his newfound logia powers to save himself.






And then here we have Sabo striking with a close range attack and Fujitora blocking it without being forced back at all.





These two panels prove that Dressrosa Sabo's physical strength is far inferior to Dressrosa's Zoro's physical strength, because Zoro was able to overpower Fujitora's gravity with his physical strength and was able to push back Fujitora and have Fujitora shivering in fear with his physical strength. It's absolutely embarrassing that Sabo can't even push back a Fujitora who wasn't even trying to harm him.


Now for the last time, provide _manga panels_ of Dressrosa Sabo having better feats against Fujitora than Dressrosa Zoro. Don't link me anime scenes. Don't tell me your thoughts, because I'm not interested in anything you have to say. Just simply link canon manga panels. If you are incapable of doing this, then learn to shut up and stop wasting my time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheRealSJ (Jan 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> a stupid request, especially when Sabo himself admitted that Fujitora was not trying to fight him and was simply stalling so Luffy could have enough time to defeat Doflamingo


So you think fujitora was in a different position when he has intercepting zoro, I'm sure fujitora (the navy admiral) was so excited to go all out against zoro, who couldn't even dispatch hawkins...

Here is zoro getting completely forced down a hole by Fuji's gravity and getting blood drawn by a single attack.

Next panel:




Here is zoro surprise attacking fujitora with a flying slash while down in the hole, and fujitora losing concentration and blocking the attack - which caused him to release control of the gravity which you some how interpreted as zoro, who got ko'ed by a sword wound from a weakened killer and an upset stomach a few arcs later, overpowering a navy admiral.

Next, we move over to sabo.

Here is sabo effortlessly dispatching a navy vice admiral then moving on to clash evenly with fujitora.



A Optimistic said:


> These two panels prove that Dressrosa Sabo's physical strength is far inferior to Dressrosa's Zoro's physical strength, because Zoro was able to overpower Fujitora's gravity with his physical strength and was able to push back Fujitora and have Fujitora shivering in fear with his physical strength. It's absolutely embarrassing that Sabo can't even push back a Fujitora who wasn't even trying to harm him.


After being delusional enough to believe zoro overpowered fujitora, you now claim that sabo, who recently gained his new fruit, was testing the power and didn't even use dragon claw - is physically inferior to fujitora, when all that is shown is sabo attacking and fuji blocking.
Going by your logic, shanks is FAR stronger than akainu because he blocked his magma fist...



A Optimistic said:


> Here's a panel in the manga that clearly demonstrates that Sabo doesn't have the physical strength to overpower Fujitora's gravity and needs to use his newfound logia powers to save himself.


So because fujitoras gravity had no effect on sabo, considering his AUTOMATIC - intangibiity, which sabo has no control of, you drew out the conclusion that sabo is unable to physically overpower his gravity......
I'm starting to understand why you named yourself "The Optimistic".

If you honestly think Dressrosa zoro was stronger than sabo, after he went through all the trouble of re-introducing himself as luffys brother and vowing to protect him then you must also think that zoro is far stronger than luffy too.....
Honestly you should just quit the series, there's no way you're enjoying it with that level of comprehension, maybe you should pick up Dragon Ball Super, I'm sure that will have a much easier plot for someone like you to understand...

Reactions: Winner 5


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## ShWanksThe Goat (Feb 16, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Shit if he can cut a Yonkos best weapon like butter then honestly he’s probably cutting through any fire attack even easier...
> 
> But with what he’s shown so far, he’s lacking the speed or mobility to beat Sabo, he might be able to draw out more power from Emma and hurt Sabo but his attacks are going to have a hard time connecting I feel like.
> 
> Sabo I guess


Exactly, people forget that there are other factors in a fight than just how hard a person can hit. Sabo is faster, has had advanced Ryou for at least 4 years to Luffy's week and is implied to have advanced observation haki. If Zoro misses one big swing and gets drained, Sabo might just dragon claw his skull and impact his brain with destructive Ryou. That Ryou is no joke if it's making Kaido cough blood.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## itsxtray (Feb 16, 2021)

Zoro probably can cut thru all the long range fire, especially since boro & prometheus were cut. Sabo just brings it to close range like he did against Burgess:

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kingslayer (Feb 16, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Post Wano, Zoro is at best low FM level - i.e King. Sabo is way above that. Cutting fire just means he can cut range fire attacks. Sabo can kick or punch him close range with fire + coa and it will do the trick.
> 
> When Zoro shows potential to cut thru Red Roc, then we might be able to talk.


If he beats King in one on one fight then i think the matchup against Sabo will be very interesting .


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## Corax (Feb 17, 2021)

ShWanksThe Goat said:


> Exactly, people forget that there are other factors in a fight than just how hard a person can hit. Sabo is faster, has had advanced Ryou for at least 4 years to Luffy's week and is implied to have advanced observation haki. If Zoro misses one big swing and gets drained, Sabo might just dragon claw his skull and impact his brain with destructive Ryou. That Ryou is no joke if it's making Kaido cough blood.


I don't think Zoro will need any overcharged attacks in this battle. If his dragon twister (low to mid tier attack) can cut Kaido's dragon form and overpower his twister for sure it can wound Sabo. I'd give him an extreme diff. only because CoA 3.0 properties at this point are pretty much unknown. It might block Enma, might not. We don't know.


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 17, 2021)

Corax said:


> I don't think Zoro will need any overcharged attacks in this battle. If his dragon twister (low to mid tier attack) can cut Kaido's dragon form and overpower his twister for sure it can wound Sabo. I'd give him an extreme diff. only because CoA 3.0 properties at this point are pretty much unknown. It might block Enma, might not. We don't know.


If Coa 3.0 can block a magma fist and whitebeard quakes I don't think it will have too much of an issue with enma


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## itsxtray (Feb 17, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If Coa 3.0 can block a magma fist and whitebeard quakes I don't think it will have too much of an issue with enma


The funny thing is, is thats it's 2.0 thats the force field/barrier... which Hyou can actually do... 3.0 is when it goes inside and hurts the enemy, which Hyou said he couldn't do and we've only seen Luffy, Rayleigh, and Sabo do.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 17, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> The funny thing is, is thats it's 2.0 thats the force field/barrier... which Hyou can actually do... 3.0 is when it goes inside and hurts the enemy, which Hyou said he couldn't do and we've only seen Luffy, Rayleigh, and Sabo do.


Oh my bad, but still if its shown to block an attack from the WSM and a magma fist from an admiral with the most lethal devil fruit then enma shouldn't be much of a problem

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 17, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> This is a stupid request, especially when Sabo himself admitted that Fujitora was not trying to fight him and was simply stalling so Luffy could have enough time to defeat Doflamingo. Are you sure you have read Dressrosa? I'd recommend a re-read on your part because you're clearly unable to remember basic facts from that arc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The attack Fuji used on Sabo was stronger than the fodder move on Zoro


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## A Optimistic (Feb 17, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> The attack Fuji used on Sabo was stronger than the fodder move on Zoro



not debating with you until my app is done


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## MrPopo (Feb 17, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> not debating with you until my app is done


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## A Optimistic (Feb 17, 2021)

MrPopo said:


>



due in 5 hours

still not done

still havent slept

pray for me

Reactions: Useful 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 17, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> due in 5 hours
> 
> still not done
> 
> ...


You can do it


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## Dunno (Feb 17, 2021)

Zoro takes this. Sabo hasn't shown any feats close to Zoro's, and his hype as Dragon's FM only puts him at around YFM level, which is not enough. Add to that Zoro's fire cutting ability, and it's something like a lower end of high diff fight.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheRealSJ (Feb 17, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Zoro takes this. Sabo hasn't shown any feats close to Zoro's, and his hype as Dragon's FM only puts him at around YFM level, which is not enough. Add to that Zoro's fire cutting ability, and it's something like a lower end of high diff fight.


Talk to me when Zoro one shots vice admirals, or fodderises yonko commanders, or leaves admirals in bandages. 

Zoro's fire cutting style isn't very flexible and won't be able to counter all of mera moves.


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## ho11ow (Feb 17, 2021)

Now oneshot vice admiral actually very impressive, I guess Bartolomeo actually Sabo level as well since he neg diff vice admiral

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Feb 17, 2021)

I got Sabo over Zoro for now.  The Revolutionaries' No. 2 should be a bit stronger than the Straw Hats' No. 2 right now.
Based on their childhood, Ace would've been stronger now too, and perhaps be Admiral level.
I think Sabo is probably a little beneath that. For now, it's just speculation though.

Ryusoken is also pretty ideal for helping him deal with Zoro.


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## Corax (Feb 17, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> If Coa 3.0 can block a magma fist and whitebeard quakes I don't think it will have too much of an issue with enma


It still has a limit as anything in this manga I think. I seriously doubt that CoA can stop absolutely any attack.


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## Beast (Feb 17, 2021)

Zoro ain’t never surpassing Sabo, I’ll put my account on that

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## itsxtray (Feb 17, 2021)

Corax said:


> It still has a limit as anything in this manga I think. I seriously doubt that CoA can stop absolutely any attack.


This reminds me of a question i had a while ago. Is there a limit to how strong your haki can get? Like i think it's safe to assume the admirals barrier that stopped the quake is stronger than marigold and sentomaru's barrier.

Can someone super talented just keep making it stronger and stronger like could they stop a nuke with their barrier? Whats the upper limit of haki? Or is there not one and it's entirely up to the skill of the user?


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## Corax (Feb 17, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> This reminds me of a question i had a while ago. Is there a limit to how strong your haki can get? Like i think it's safe to assume the admirals barrier that stopped the quake is stronger than marigold and sentomaru's barrier.
> 
> Can someone super talented just keep making it stronger and stronger like could they stop a nuke with their barrier? Whats the upper limit of haki? Or is there not one and it's entirely up to the skill of the user?


Without any doubts such limit exists. Even admirals had to combine their haki to stop Gura quake. I seriously doubt that for example a single individual's haki might stop enraged Gura. Well may be some potential EOS god tier like Joy Boy/Imu but even in their case unlikely.


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## itsxtray (Feb 17, 2021)

Corax said:


> Without any doubts such limit exists. Even admirals had to combine their haki to stop Gura quake. I seriously doubt that for example a single individual's haki might stop enraged Gura. Well may be some potential EOS god tier like Joy Boy/Imu but even in their case unlikely.


Having hard limits on such an abstract concept like haki seems odd to me. I think of it as haki being limitless but the potential of humans having hard limits, if that makes sense. Like theoretically you could block a nuke but the amount of people with the potential to be that strong is like 1 in a billion. Most people's ceilings only go so high no matter how hard they train.

Ok in your mind whats the hard limit for hardening, barrier, and internal haki?
Examples: hardening at it's best can block machine gun fire, barrier at it's best can block a small bomb, internal at it's best can rupture organs.


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## Corax (Feb 18, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Having hard limits on such an abstract concept like haki seems odd to me. I think of it as haki being limitless but the potential of humans having hard limits, if that makes sense. Like theoretically you could block a nuke but the amount of people with the potential to be that strong is like 1 in a billion. Most people's ceilings only go so high no matter how hard they train.
> 
> Ok in your mind whats the hard limit for hardening, barrier, and internal haki?
> Examples: hardening at it's best can block machine gun fire, barrier at it's best can block a small bomb, internal at it's best can rupture organs.


I think small island lvl. At least for now. Because WB's quake attacks were around small island and 3 admirals were needed to stop them (at least portrayed so). So it is unrealistic that a single person's haki in this manga can stop any small island scale attack alone, if 3 admirals were needed.


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## itsxtray (Feb 18, 2021)

Corax said:


> I think small island lvl. At least for now. Because WB's quake attacks were around small island and 3 admirals were needed to stop them (at least portrayed so). So it is unrealistic that a single person's haki in this manga can stop any small island scale attack alone, if 3 admirals were needed.


Got you, like you said maybe some joy boy or imu shit will happen at the end but for now that seems reasonable.


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## Kingslayer (Feb 21, 2021)

Ya its not enough to take this to extreme diff. He is right hand man to Dragon and easily on same level as luffy or even higher  .

With fire fix abilities makes sense to push to high diff fight. However End of wano Zoro is entirely  different debate .

Reactions: Winner 1


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## cry77 (Feb 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Talk to me when Zoro one shots vice admirals, or fodderises yonko commanders, or leaves admirals in bandages.
> 
> Zoro's fire cutting style isn't very flexible and won't be able to counter all of mera moves.


Fucking DR Bartolomeo was one-shotting Vice Admirals  they have virtually no hype value at this stage of the game. 
And honestly, the same pretty much goes for YC, at least the weaker ones. We have no confirmation that Burgess is in the top 3 of the BB Pirates. IN fact, in all likelyhood, he is not.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 23, 2021)

you can ask me even after Wano arc the same question and I will say Sabo wins. and probably Sabo will be stronger than him till his death. no way Zoro will be stronger than him while Sabo being alive

Sabo is a very big shot
he fought at least 1 admiral  2 times. and based on Fujitora's state some time after their second fight he might be even defeated by Sabo

Sabo fucking invaded new MF, fought marines and is still alive. Who knows how many marines and how many admirals Revo group fought during Reverie
Sabo is a prodigy, always was.

the only good question is when Luffy will be > Sabo. I can easily imagine them being equal only in Final War arc and Luffy being above him sometime close to the end of it. no, I'm not saying that Luffy can only reach Sabo's level in Final War arc but I can see it happening easily

but if Luffy defeats BB before Final War, I can't see Sabo being equal and especially being stronger than him after that

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## MYJC (Feb 26, 2021)

Zoro high diffs. 

Sabo has done nothing deserving of the wank he gets on here, beating up Burgess isn't anything Zoro couldn't do.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## blueframe01 (Feb 26, 2021)

Sabo was shown to be above Luffy in DR (i.e. not too long ago). He even got a huge powerup by obtaining one of the best Logia fruits. Why is he now being compared to Zoro?


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## OG sama (Feb 26, 2021)

blueframe01 said:


> Sabo was shown to be above Luffy in DR (i.e. not too long ago). He even got a huge powerup by obtaining one of the best Logia fruits. Why is he now being compared to Zoro?


Cause Zoro has gotten a lot stronger and so has Luffy since DR which was a long time ago at this point.

But imo Sabo should still beat Zoro.

Reactions: Like 1


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## blueframe01 (Feb 26, 2021)

OG sama said:


> Cause Zoro has gotten a lot stronger and so has Luffy since DR which was a long time ago at this point.
> 
> But imo Sabo should still beat Zoro.


Agreed, but in this time Sabo has been training with his fruit and even had a big battle in Mariejois. For a character that has been a step above Luffy all throughout Luffy's life despite his crazy growth rate, I just don't see him suddenly falling behind not just Luffy, but Zoro as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 26, 2021)

blueframe01 said:


> Agreed, but in this time Sabo has been training with his fruit and even had a big battle in Mariejois. For a character that has been a step above Luffy all throughout Luffy's life despite his crazy growth rate, I just don't see him suddenly falling behind not just Luffy, but Zoro as well.


Sabo's hard to rank because we don't know how close he was to Fujitora, and other than that, his best feat is beating Burgess with ease. So ranking Dressrosa Sabo is still just as much of a guessing game as it is now, and your logic makes sense that Zoro would not have surpasses him already, especially since we don't know how strong he will get in this arc. Comparing them is fine though imo.


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## Mihawk (Feb 26, 2021)

Sabo is only 22  

he’s not going to stop growing be stuck while luffy and Zoro improve

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 26, 2021)

MYJC said:


> Zoro high diffs.
> 
> Sabo has done nothing deserving of the wank he gets on here, beating up Burgess isn't anything Zoro couldn't do.



comparing DR arc feats with Wano feats

let's be fair. let's compare last Sabo on-panel feats vs Zoro's feats from that arc

fucking struggling against Pica vs nodiffing Burgess
being put deep underground by Fujitora's gravity vs easily overpowering it


do you see the portrayal difference? do you know what is scaling?
if Zoro went from Pica to fighting against 2 Yonko in a team of strongest SNs
how far do you think Sabo went?
he is at least = Fujitora now. and as I said there is a chance he defeated Fujitora during Reverie based on Fujitora's state after

Sabo isn't Jinbei who was in his Prime pre-ts and is still the same, cause prime is prime, he reached his full potential

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## MYJC (Feb 26, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> comparing DR arc feats with Wano feats
> 
> let's be fair. let's compare last Sabo on-panel feats vs Zoro's feats from that arc
> 
> ...



You can't just assume Sabo leveled up at the same rate as the Straw Hats   

Unless there's reason to think otherwise you have to go by their last appearance.


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## Fel1x (Feb 26, 2021)

MYJC said:


> You can't just assume Sabo leveled up at the same rate as the Straw Hats
> 
> Unless there's reason to think otherwise you have to go by their last appearance.


I can assume
actually Zoro and Sabo had the same amount of encounters after DR
Rooftop 5 vs 2 Yonko
Revs vs marines (with Fujitora fighting them 100%. and don't forget than most of admirals or guys like Garp was also there)

and Zoro is lucky Yonko tends to focus Luffy all the time
Sabo was surely the main target


also don't forget that Sabo growth rate was always faster than Zoro's. Sabo was a prodigy from even ASL time, being rival to PK's son
and unlike Zoro he uses advanced CoA

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## OG sama (Feb 27, 2021)

blueframe01 said:


> Agreed, but in this time Sabo has been training with his fruit and even had a big battle in Mariejois. For a character that has been a step above Luffy all throughout Luffy's life despite his crazy growth rate, I just don't see him suddenly falling behind not just Luffy, but Zoro as well.


Agreed, it’s debatable whether the Current Luffy as he is can actually beat him so imo Zoro isn’t.

Though I will say Zoro has the foxfire style and has some pretty great AP he might not be much weaker than the Current Luffy is but I’m not convinced he’s beating Sabo, he’s got to show me more control over Enma and still there’s no telling how strong Sabo is now, he could very well be Admiral level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MYJC (Feb 27, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> I can assume
> actually Zoro and Sabo had the same amount of encounters after DR
> Rooftop 5 vs 2 Yonko
> Revs vs marines (with Fujitora fighting them 100%. and don't forget than most of admirals or guys like Garp was also there)
> ...



The difference is we're getting to see the Yonko fight (and have seen Zoro damage a Yonko), but we don't know anything about what happened in the Revs vs Marines fight other than that it probably ended badly for Sabo going by the reactions.

For all we know that newspaper headline is "Admiral Fujitora low-diffs Revolutionary Army 2nd in Command!".

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 27, 2021)

MYJC said:


> The difference is we're getting to see the Yonko fight (and have seen Zoro damage a Yonko), but we don't know anything about what happened in the Revs vs Marines fight other than that it probably ended badly for Sabo going by the reactions.
> 
> For all we know that newspaper headline is "Admiral Fujitora low-diffs Revolutionary Army 2nd in Command!".


Fuji is fully in bandages

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Great Potato (Apr 13, 2021)

Bumping this thread 

Interested in seeing how responses have changed with recent developments.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## convict (Apr 13, 2021)

Zoro high difficulty for sure.

Not only was he able to hold off a double Yonkou attack for moments. Not only was he able to scar Kaido. Not only was he able to parry Kaido swings while being on his last legs. But he simply is a great match-up against someone with the fire fruit and can easily neutralize the fire fist.

Sabo has advanced CoA? Well Zoro can imbue his attacks with CoC.

Zoro has surpassed him and will never look back.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mercurial (Apr 13, 2021)

Yes, Sabo is a beast and a YC1+ character, for sure, but Zoro is the stronger one, clearly.

Sabo's best feat is giving lesser wounds to Fujitora, who is one of the weakest Top Tiers. And that happened in uncertain circumstances.
Zoro's best feat is giving a serious wound, that leads to a massive permanent scar, to Kaido, who is one of the strongest Top Tiers. And that happened after Zoro went against Kaido, fair and square, 1 vs 1, with a frontal attack, and blitzed and cut past him.

Plus Zoro did also show a crazy feat in partially stopping Hakai (that even Luffy didn't even try to stop, and that the other Supernovas claimed was undodgeable/unstoppable), and tanking what he couldn't stop. Just to remind, Hakai was a move with the combined strength of two Yonko that launched a serious named finishing move to take out all the five Supernovas in a single attack.

And yes he blocked that, and when he could not block anymore he tanked. It's canon.





Zoro has massively better feats. That's a fact. Zoro did to Kaido a lot more than Sabo did to Fujitora. And Fujitora is weaker than Kaido. So one can do the math...
Plus the thing he did against the combined move from Kaido and Big Mom, it's just crazy, Sabo did nothing ever remotely comparable.

Plus he is also extremely advantaged in a 1 vs 1 because of his ability to cut fire; and if he could effortlessy cut fire from Big Mom and Kaido's named seriout attacks, yes there's no doubt that he can cut through Mera Mera.

Pre Mera Mera Sabo (YC) ~ Pre Enma Zoro (YC) < Mera Mera Sabo (YC1) < Current Sabo (YC1+) << Current Zoro (low Top Tier)

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> fucking struggling against Pica vs nodiffing Burgess
> being put deep underground by Fujitora's gravity vs easily overpowering it


It's honestly hard to find a more biased way of describing these situations lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 13, 2021)

If we’re judging this based on when we last saw Sabo fight, then Zoro wins.

But don’t underestimate current Sabo. Next time we see him fight proper Oda will give him a big buff though Zoro has set the bar high.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## trance (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> easily overpowering it



this never happened


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## TheWiggian (Apr 13, 2021)

trance said:


> this never happened


He's reading the filler version

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 13, 2021)

Zoro wins now based on feats although Sabo has not gone all out on panel so its impossible to say with certainty

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 13, 2021)

I expect that Zoro right now and Sabo of Dressrosa are around the same strength with the Sabo next time we see him and Zoro by the end of this arc being pretty much equal as well. So I'll go with Zoro for now since post-ts Asura exists.


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## Fel1x (Apr 13, 2021)

Sabo still > Zoro after all this chapters for me
Zoro can't fight top tier 1 on 1, Sabo can.

also with Oda dropping power-ups here and there, next time Sabo will appear he will be absolute beast


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## Mercurial (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> Sabo still > Zoro after all this chapters for me
> Zoro can't fight top tier 1 on 1, Sabo can.
> 
> also with Oda dropping power-ups here and there, next time Sabo will appear he will be absolute beast


Zoro gave a serious wound to Hybrid Kaido.
In a clean 1 vs 1. Fair and square. No external involvements. Then lost.

Sabo gave slight superficial wounds to Fujitora. In uncertain circumstances. Then lost.

Hybrid Kaido > Fujitora.
And Zoro's performance against Kaido > Sabo's performance against Fujitora.

So it's a fact that Zoro > Sabo.

Add that Zoro can easily neutralize Mera Mera with his Kitsunebiryuu, and it comes clear that Zoro overwhelms Sabo.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fel1x (Apr 13, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Zoro gave a serious wound to Hybrid Kaido.
> In a clean 1 vs 1. Fair and square. No external involvements. Then lost.
> 
> Sabo gave slight superficial wounds to Fujitora. In uncertain circumstances. Then lost.
> ...


Kaido's reaction was a bit strange. he dodged Luffy quite easily before last chapter , but for some reason decided not to dodge Zoro or he wasn't fast to react which is even stranger


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## Mihawk (Apr 13, 2021)

Thread will also be bumped again when we see what Sabo is capable of when we see him again. Next time he appears, he could be fighting for his life.

Current Zoro beats the Sabo that we saw in Dressrosa. Current Sabo should be a different story, and should live up to being one of the greatest frontline fighters against the World Government there is as the No. 2 of Dragon, once he's fully mastered his DF and shows other advanced forms of Haki.

Sabo's ceiling should be Admiral level at least, and he's only a year older than Zoro, so he's going to keep growing at the same rate that he has been.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercurial (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> Kaido's reaction was a bit strange. he dodged Luffy quite easily before last chapter , but for some reason decided not to dodge Zoro or he wasn't fast to react which is even stranger


It isn't strange at all.

Zoro is hella fast in his short burst attacks. And Ashura boosts speed (in Pre TS Zoro with Ashura blitzed Kaku, while he could not blitz him before).

What's wrong with Gear 4 Rufy speed > Ashura Zoro speed >> Base Rufy/Zoro speed? I don't see anything wrong.

Anyway, it's a fact that these things happened. Zoro > Sabo is clear as day, as we have perfect comparisons. Kaido > Fujitora and Zoro did far more to Kaido than what Sabo did to Fujitora. If you add the advantage of Kitsunebiryuu over Mera Mera, then it becomes no contest.


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## Fel1x (Apr 13, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> It isn't strange at all.
> 
> Zoro is hella fast in his short burst attacks. And Ashura boosts speed (in Pre TS Zoro with Ashura blitzed Kaku, while he could not blitz him before).
> 
> ...


ok i can admit Zoro>DR Sabo. but if we are talking about current versions, I believe Sabo is still stronger. I can't prove it. we haven't seen Sabo in action for long. but he might even defeated Fujitora in DR. but current Sabo is fealtess. that's a fact

well, ok. he can use his strongest attack, it will damage Kaido. after that he can't do shit to him. is it "Zoro can fight top tier 1 on 1" for you? for me - not


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## Mercurial (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> ok i can admit Zoro>DR Sabo. but if we are talking about current versions, I believe Sabo is still stronger. I can't prove it. we haven't seen Sabo in action for long. but he might even defeated Fujitora in DR. but current Sabo is fealtess. that's a fact
> 
> well, ok. he can use his strongest attack, it will damage Kaido. after that he can't do shit to him. is it "Zoro can fight top tier 1 on 1" for you? for me - not


Bruv, Zoro was in this state before his short 1 vs 1 against Kaido.



Law tells us that is basically a miracle that he is still alive and on his feet. Let alone fight a Yonko and wound him for his life.

Put Sabo in the same situation, and I am afraid that in that weakened state he would not even do the slightest damage to Kaido. If in a normal condition he couldn't do the same to Fujitora who is weaker than Kaido.


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## Fel1x (Apr 13, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Bruv, Zoro was in this state before his short 1 vs 1 against Kaido.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sabo was still testing his new DF. also he didn't have the real motivation to defeat Fujitora

also: what do you think can happen if Kaido targetted only Zoro? can he survive that? attack after attack after attack

SNs can slack a little bit because its 5 vs 2. and last Zoro's feat was made when it was 5 vs 1. 

no SN can fight Kaido 1 on 1 except Luffy for now. I mean to really fight him


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## Mercurial (Apr 13, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> Sabo was still testing his new DF. also he didn't have the real motivation to defeat Fujitora
> 
> also: what do you think can happen if Kaido targetted only Zoro? can he survive that? attack after attack after attack
> 
> ...


I am talking about the fight that happened in Reverie.
In Dressrosa, Fujitora was playing around with Sabo, prolonging the fight with him to have that as an excuse to not enter the fray in Rufy vs Doflamingo.

I am not saying that Zoro is close to Kaido, or anything like that. Not at all.
Not even Rufy is close to Kaido, as he got defeated and KOed the chapter before this very chapter.

Just that Zoro showed impressive feats, that are clearly better than Sabo's. As these feats are much better, and also showed against an opponent stronger than the one Sabo fought.
And let's not try to belittle Zoro. Because everything he did he did it by himself, with no help or involvement from anyone else.
He stopped and then tanked Hakai with his own strength. Actually, he saved the others, he was even thanked for that.
He attacked Kaido 1 vs 1, fair and square, no distractions, no help or support.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## LightningForce (Apr 13, 2021)

Zoro high-diffs Sabo, who hard counters his DF. Sabo loses the advantage of his newfound fire powers and Zoro’s Haki is absolutely equal to or greater to Sabo’s at this point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Apr 13, 2021)

I’m going to wait till we see kid and killer vs big mom


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## Beast (Apr 13, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> I’m going to wait till we see kid and killer vs big mom

Reactions: Funny 1


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## maupp (Apr 15, 2021)

Current Zoro has better feats then Sabo but we also can't tell what's current Sabo level after Mera training. 

I'll stick with feats here and go with Zoro, and Zoro is a character strong enough that even Sabo's good portrayal alone can't put him over Zoro. 

Zoro wins.


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## maupp (Apr 15, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> I’m going to wait till we see kid and killer vs big mom


What does that have to do with this thread?


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## Corax (Apr 15, 2021)

For now Zoro has a clear advantage. Flame cutting style+new Asura+CoC. Though this might change (or might not) we see Sabo's new feats next arc.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Apr 15, 2021)

Corax said:


> For now Zoro has a clear advantage. Flame cutting style+new Asura+CoC. Though this might change (or might not) we see Sabo's new feats next arc.



Soon black blade will add to that advantage.


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## bil02 (Apr 15, 2021)

Zoro has better feats and matchup advantage so seems fair to give him the win against Sabo atm.

Sabo the next time we see him may be a lot stronger and around post Wano Luffy level so the outcome of the fight may change.

Tbh there are creative ways in which to use the mera merA like flame manipution and others,so while Zoro has the matchup advantage with Fire cutting,it is only useful for long& mid range attacks; which means it will depend on Sabo's creativity with his fruit for it ending up being a non factor against Zoro or not.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 15, 2021)

Zoro obviously wins.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Apr 15, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro obviously wins.


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## MarcoThePhoenix (Apr 15, 2021)

Zoro can win extreme diff, but so can Sabo.

50-50 imo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shadowlord123 (Apr 15, 2021)

Zoro has better feats currently (never thought I would say this prior to chapter 1000 lol, but it is what it is) and he also has a match-up advantage with fire users with Homurasaki. 

He wins after a hard fight IMO.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jul 22, 2022)

convict said:


> Zoro has surpassed him and will never look back.





A Optimistic said:


> Zoro obviously wins.


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## A Optimistic (Jul 22, 2022)

Moved this to the telegrams so nobody in the battledome gets spoiled.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Jul 22, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Zoro obviously wins.


Regular optimistic W.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jul 22, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Moved this to the telegrams so nobody in the battledome gets spoiled.


Did I spoil? sorry

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Jul 22, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Did I spoil? sorry



No worries bro. Basically the rule is we keep all chapter related discussion in the telegrams until the VIZ chapter comes out on Sunday. So I moved this thread to the telegrams.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Rob (Jul 23, 2022)

Moving his own L to the Telegrams for the entire OL to see. 

A true champion with dignity

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Incognitos (Jul 23, 2022)

Rob said:


> Moving his own L to the Telegrams for the entire OL to see.
> 
> A true champion with dignity


To be fair most of his posts regarding tiers are Ls its not a high bar.


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## Luffyfan38 (Jul 23, 2022)

Dam this thread was outdated, looking at these comments are hilarious now.


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## Tenma (Jul 23, 2022)

bruh this was pre-adcoc zoro

jesas

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

Still no answer for fire cutting style and AdCoC

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dunno (Jul 23, 2022)

Zoro still takes it comfortably.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Still no answer for fire cutting style and AdCoC


According to this logic Zoro beats Akainu too

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 23, 2022)

Zoro fans "futuresight is overrated, eventually the zoro will tag katakuri"

Also zoro fans " zoro can cut fire so hes totally immune to all fire no matter what"

Also by this logic, zoro can cut steel so mihawk doesnt have an answer for him so zoro defeats mihawk....

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Shanks (Jul 23, 2022)

Why isn't there a poll, lol


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> According to this logic Zoro beats Akainu too


Akainu's magma can't be cut like fire, his haki is better and stats are far superior. False equivalence.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Incognitos (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Akainu's magma can't be cut like fire, his haki is better and stats are far superior. False equivalence.


Can zoro beat fire dragon kaidou with his firecutting. 

I'm sure you also are someone who claims zoro beats kid when zoro has no answer to magnetism. 

A counter isn't be all of everything. Sabo has much superior showings against top tiers than zoro does. Zoro extreme diffed king who was low diffed by GB who Sabo was able to injure in what looks like a high diff fight. Powerscaling has Sabo destroying zoro without his fruit.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Akainu's magma can't be cut like fire, *his haki is better and stats are far superior.*


And Sabo's aren't? He's been fighting Admirals since Dressrosa, Zoro was sent flying in Onigashima by a mere commander.

Sabo hype >> Zoro.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> And Sabo's aren't? He's been fighting Admirals since Dressrosa, Zoro was sent flying in Onigashima by a mere commander.
> 
> Sabo hype >> Zoro.


Zoro blitzed a mere commander in 3 hits. Clashing with non serious Admirals is something even mere commanders like Marco and Jozu can do.


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## Typhon (Jul 23, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Zoro fans "futuresight is overrated, eventually the zoro will tag katakuri"
> 
> Also zoro fans " zoro can cut fire so hes totally immune to all fire no matter what"
> 
> Also by this logic, zoro can cut steel so mihawk doesnt have an answer for him so zoro defeats mihawk....


Ah this is the post.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Jul 23, 2022)

Sabo likely wins but Zoro’s AP is deadly enough where he could win


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Zoro blitzed a mere commander in 3 hits. Clashing with non serious Admirals is something even mere commanders like Marco and Jozu can do.


I see you still need counting lessons.

Also you cant "blitz" someone you were getting thrown around and dominated by for 80% of the fight.


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> And Sabo's aren't? He's been fighting Admirals since Dressrosa, Zoro was sent flying in Onigashima by a mere commander.
> 
> Sabo hype >> Zoro.


That's an interesting take as Zoro had a scuffle with a non-serious Fuji on DR as well. I guess you also wiped Zoro going up against two Yonkou this past arc and actually dealing damage, including permanently scarring one of them out of your memory. I guess you're gonna also forget that since then, Zoro received arguably the most powerful powerup in the series. Sabo's greatest feat to date is putting a  bandage on Fuji's head for a week, and we can't even attribute that feat solely to him in good faith.


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Show me the superior Haki feats that Sabo has over Zoro. Show me the superior strength feats, speed feats, defensive feats. I will wait for as long as it takes.


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> I see you still need counting lessons.
> 
> Also you cant "blitz" someone you were getting thrown around and dominated by for 80% of the fight.


AdCoC Zoro and RT Zoro are two different characters. You can't apply King throwing Zoro around to his current version, just like you can't apply Kaido one shotting Pre Udon Luffy to Yonkou Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Sabo.mid to low diff Zoro

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Show me the superior Haki feats that Sabo has over Zoro. Show me the superior strength feats, speed feats, defensive feats. I will wait for as long as it takes.


It's been shown already , just get those slice of ham you got in from of your eyes and you will see it lol


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> AdCoC Zoro and RT Zoro are two different characters. You can't apply King throwing Zoro around to his current version, just like you can't apply Kaido one shotting Pre Udon Luffy to Yonkou Luffy.


dog, he still uses the kamazou fight to scale Zoro's endurance/durability. he's hopeless

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Redline said:


> It's been shown already , just get those slice of ham you got in from of your eyes and you will see it lol


Scans?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

me: "show me the sabo feats that put him above Zoro"

you guys: "h-him flame emprer and he save kuma and run from 2 admiral. they didnt go all out but no excuse, so that dont count, sabo dfeet 2 admiral full pwr"

Ya'll are better than this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> me: "show me the sabo feats that put him above Zoro"
> 
> you guys: "h-him flame emprer and he save kuma and run from 2 admiral. they didnt go all out but no excuse, so that dont count, sabo dfeet 2 admiral full pwr"
> 
> Ya'll are better than this.


Should be enough just saying that sabo learnt adv armament since he was 14 while zoro learn it yesterday lol


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

The entire RA ran away once they saw a Yonkou crew show up on their own turf. They didn't even try to make a stand. Dragon was probably sweating like a pig, trying to burn papers and stuff while running away, feeling Teach's quakes under his feet.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The entire RA ran away once they saw a Yonkou crew show up on their own turf. They didn't even try to make a stand. Dragon was probably sweating like a pig, trying to burn papers and stuff while running away, feeling Teach's quakes under his feet.


Does Dragon looks like a guy who is scared of the GM? Do you think Dragon is scared of Teach? Lmaoooo,  the copium is strong
Oh yeah that's why he is the most wanted ! because he is the one that runs away the most because of fear lolololo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Look, Sabo is top tier when he's picking on cats like Maynard and Burgers. I think he knows better than to step much furthered up the ladder

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Look, Sabo is top tier when he's picking on cats like Maynard and Burgers. I think he knows better than to step much furthered up the ladder


Zoro also is top tier if he takes on myanard or Burgess innit? XD

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## MrPopo (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The entire RA ran away once they saw a Yonkou crew show up on their own turf. They didn't even try to make a stand. Dragon was probably sweating like a pig, trying to burn papers and stuff while running away, feeling Teach's quakes under his feet.


So fujitora and and Ryokugyu are frauds ?


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

This is the presence and sheer hype Yonkou crews impose when they show up:


*Spoiler*: __ 











Not only do they fear and want to avoid conflict with these monsters at all costs, the entirety of the WG's mightiest fighting force was assembled to meet them in combat. 

Yonkou Elite First Mate > RA Chief of Staff in hype and showings too. Zoro is superior.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> So fujitora and and Ryokugyu are frauds ?


They just grabbed Kuma and left ASAP when the Admirals had to be careful in what was essentially a world made of cardboard. Are we forgetting that WB's commanders rescued Luffy by holding off half of all Navy HQ forces, including Akainu?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> This is the presence and sheer hype Yonkou crews impose when they show up:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Zkk failure must have been hard on you

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

There is one Italian way of saying that cames to my mind about this match up...
It goes like this..

Era meglio morire da piccoli con i peli del culo a batuffoli che morire da grandi soldati con i peli del culo bruciati lol


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)




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## Mercurial (Jul 23, 2022)

Redline said:


> Should be enough just saying that sabo learnt adv armament since he was 14 while zoro learn it yesterday lol


And so what?

Yamato has Adv CoC from who knows how many years... Luffy learnt it yesterday... and would clap her low diff

I would love to see how Sabo's unnamed pole ehnanced with Adv CoA matches to Zoro's graded swords enhanced with Adv CoC + Adv CoA
With Zoro completely countering the Mera Mera which is Sabo's main asset (people call him Emperor of Flames, not Emperor of Haki)

Reactions: Winner 5 | Creative 1


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## Tenma (Jul 23, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> This is the presence and sheer hype Yonkou crews impose when they show up:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



weren't you just claiming the RA>3 yonko crews

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Soba (Jul 23, 2022)

Sabo giga fists 

If hype wasn't enough (which it is) my guy kept up with Ace as a child. His potential and ambition far exceeds Zoro's. Can you imagine the Z man being stronger than what current Ace would have been? Better yet can you imagine Zoro not getting neg diffed by 2 admirals in Sabo's shoes.

Stop playing. There are levels to this shizz

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 23, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Sabo giga fists
> 
> If hype wasn't enough (which it is) my guy kept up with Ace as a child. His potential and ambition far exceeds Zoro's. Can you imagine the Z man being stronger than what current Ace would have been? Better yet can you imagine Zoro not getting neg diffed by 2 admirals in Sabo's shoes.
> 
> Stop playing. There are levels to this shizz


I feel that his potential and ambition arent higher than zoros but he has a couple years head start on zoro. Zoro should eventually be comparable to sabo


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Zoro fans need a reality check...I am gonna call them all Paul or jack from now on lol

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> And so what?
> 
> Yamato has Adv CoC from who knows how many years... Luffy learnt it yesterday... and would clap her low diff
> 
> ...


Well said ..who knows ? We don't but maybe who's who knows lol...Sabo > Zoro 24/7 365 ..cope with it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eiichiro Oda mangaka (Jul 23, 2022)

Hard to say


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## convict (Jul 23, 2022)

Tenma said:


> bruh this was pre-adcoc zoro
> 
> jesas



I mean the last we saw of Sabo he was being toyed around with Fujitora in Dressrosa and we all assumed Revos lost based on Oda's hints.

Now we know they were successful and he has built a reputation to match Dragon's

Reactions: GODA 1


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## TheWiggian (Jul 23, 2022)

convict said:


> I mean the last we saw of Sabo he was being toyed around with Fujitora in Dressrosa and we all assumed Revos lost based on Oda's hints.
> 
> Now we know they were successful and he has built a reputation to match Dragon's



Sabo is the new WMWM? Or is he the W2MWM?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Show me the superior Haki feats that Sabo has over Zoro. Show me the superior strength feats, speed feats, defensive feats. I will wait for as long as it takes.


Show me the superior Haki feats Dragon has over Franky. Show me the superior strength feats, speed feats, defensive feats.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

convict said:


> I mean the last we saw of Sabo he was being toyed around with Fujitora in Dressrosa and we all assumed Revos lost based on Oda's hints.
> 
> Now we know they were successful and he has built a reputation to match Dragon's


Hilarious isn't it..yet people still think Zoro is superior after he won an high diff fight against a mere commander lol


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## Eustathios (Jul 23, 2022)

Tenma said:


> weren't you just claiming the RA>3 yonko crews

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> Show me the superior Haki feats Dragon has over Franky. Show me the superior strength feats, speed feats, defensive feats.


I'm sure you can see how silly that argument is. I'll let you re-group, and try to answer that question again. Take your time


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I'm sure you can see how silly that argument is. I'll let you re-group, and try to answer that question again. Take your time


That's your argument, I'm just using a different example of it.

I'm glad you agree it's silly tho.


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Here's how the fraudulent Mihawk coated his Yoru.... He just painted Black . Therefore even zoro can beat  that already

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> That's your argument, I'm just using a different example of it.
> 
> I'm glad you agree it's silly tho.


It's not though. Dragon is poor example for one, and even if he weren't his title and standing inthe world support him being stronger than Franky. That's not the case for Sabo.


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Eiichiro Oda mangaka said:


> Hard to say


Indeed lol


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## Gledania (Jul 23, 2022)

I'll go with Sabo on this one.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> It's not though. Dragon is poor example for one, and even if he weren't his title and standing inthe world support him being stronger than Franky. That's not the case for Sabo.


That was not the point.

You asked for feats Oda hasn't drawn yet and now you're using portrayal to justify why Dragon > Franky, which is the reasonable thing to do instead of asking for offpanel feats.

Sabo hype is still > Zoro atm (rivaled PK son as a kid when Zoro was getting bullied by Kuina, fought Admiral Issho 1v1 in DR no problem, is called Flame Emperor only a chapter later after Luffy officially became a Yonko etc).

EoS maybe it's a different story.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Lul..


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> That was not the point.
> 
> You asked for feats Oda hasn't drawn yet and now you're using portrayal to justify why Dragon > Franky, which is the reasonable thing to do instead of asking for offpanel feats.


Right, but the point is you have to prove these claims if you can. I can prove my point using what Oda *has *drawn, is the thing. Admirals and Yonkou get the nod over Zoro for obvious reasons having to do with their hype. By title alone we know they're top tiers. "Chief of Staff" and "Flame Emperor" are no better for scaling than "King of Hell" or "Pirate Hunter." They are just epithets.


Lmao said:


> Sabo hype is still > Zoro atm (rivaled PK son as a kid when Zoro was getting bullied by Kuina, fought Admiral Issho 1v1 in DR no problem, is called Flame Emperor only a chapter later after Luffy officially became a Yonko etc).
> 
> EoS maybe it's a different story.


It's not. Using how he stacked up to kid Ace is nonsensical. Luffy wasn't even a match for Sabo. Going off that "hype", Sabo should beat current Luffy every time no-low diff. Zoro himself was already stronger than most as a kid, including Luffy. Kuina was a child prodigy. Scaling current characters based on their childhoods is wild.

1v1 against Issho "no problem?" Maybe re-read that "fight", dog. Issho was toying with him and Sabo himself knew that. "Flame Emperor" means about as much as "King of Hell" or "Pirate Hunter", or "Strawhat", or "Red-Hair" for that matter.


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## Lmao (Jul 23, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Right, but the point is you have to prove these claims if you can. I can prove my point using what Oda *has *drawn, is the thing. Admirals and Yonkou get the nod over Zoro for obvious reasons having to do with their hype. By title alone we know they're top tiers. "Chief of Staff" and "Flame Emperor" are no better for scaling than "King of Hell" or "Pirate Hunter." They are just epithets.


??

Sabo scales above Zoro because he's been dealing with Admirals not because of any epithet.



Conxc said:


> 1v1 against Issho "no problem?" Maybe re-read that "fight", dog. *Issho was toying with him* and Sabo himself knew that.




Sabo is solo against an Admiral supported by two Vice Admirals and a bunch of marines. Like I've already said Sabo's hype/portrayal is simply better than Zoro's. Zoro almost died facing off against a YC, Sabo has been fighting Admirals in DR and Reverie alike.

Call me when Zoro can fight an Admiral 1v1, let alone one with backup.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Redline (Jul 23, 2022)

Zoro Wilder talk to sabo fury


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## T.D.A (Jul 23, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Sabo giga fists
> 
> If hype wasn't enough (which it is) my guy kept up with Ace as a child. His potential and ambition far exceeds Zoro's. Can you imagine the Z man being stronger than what current Ace would have been? Better yet can you imagine Zoro not getting neg diffed by 2 admirals in Sabo's shoes.
> 
> Stop playing. There are levels to this shizz



Levels being Zoro's going to be stronger than Sabo whether it's now or later. Oda showed us every commander that Zoro will surpass in the 1031 colour spread.


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## T.D.A (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> ??
> 
> Sabo scales above Zoro because he's been dealing with Admirals not because of any epithet.
> 
> ...



Zoro's fought 2 Yonko too, which you conveniently left out. You can say he never beat them, but Sabo hasn't got a confirmed W vs the Admirals either.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## GiantForehead (Jul 23, 2022)

We dunno. I don't think we get how ridiculous an amp ACoC is. Only the strongest characters possess it

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Shanks (Jul 23, 2022)

Sabo-coin heading to the moon. Tones of haters who have been shorting over the last 5 years need to chill the fuck down and face reality. Sabo-coin might be Yonkou tier now, but there are still room to grow in price. 

All you stubborn NFers sell your shorts now and invest in Sabo-coin. It can still 2x. If you continue with the same root, ya all gonna get rekt, and even the biggest copium money can't buy will not help you later.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Conxc (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> ??
> 
> Sabo scales above Zoro because he's been dealing with Admirals not because of any epithet.
> 
> ...


Yeah, again, this is a bad argument. Zoro has been up against Fuji as well, and two Yonkou this arc. Did he win?  No,  it did Sabo?  No. He’s also done more to his top tier opponent then Sabo did, so I guess I should say to call me when you have a little more than “lol he fought Admirals” because fucking Curiel and other lesser commanders fought Admirals too, if the bar is that low. Fighting Admirals doesn’t mean much of you don’t have much to show for it. Also, *you *originally brought up Sabo’s epithet as hype. Now you’re saying the epithet is irrelevant? Are you sure of what you’re arguing anymore?


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## ShadoLord (Jul 23, 2022)

Lmao said:


> ??
> 
> Sabo scales above Zoro because he's been dealing with Admirals not because of any epithet.
> 
> ...


What u saying dog? Zoro has also fought Fuitora during Dressrosa. Sabo didn’t get special treatment alone in that arc.


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## Great Potato (Jul 24, 2022)

For this fight, Sabo could be stronger than Zoro and still risk taking an L because of the nature of the match-up. Firefox style is a strong counter for the Mera Mera no mi, and allows Zoro to dictate the rules of engagement. No knowledge Sabo throws fire at Zoro and he can counter with a slash that will cleave it in two and take Sabo by surprise, like what Kinemon did to Boro Breath or Zoro did to Imperial Flaming Wings.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Lmao (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Zoro's fought 2 Yonko too, which you conveniently left out. You can say he never beat them, but Sabo hasn't got a confirmed W vs the Admirals either.





Conxc said:


> Yeah, again, this is a bad argument. Zoro has been up against Fuji as well, and two Yonkou this arc. Did he win?  No,  it did Sabo?  No. He’s also done more to his top tier opponent then Sabo did, so I guess I should say to call me when you have a little more than “lol he fought Admirals” because fucking Curiel and other lesser commanders fought Admirals too, if the bar is that low. Fighting Admirals doesn’t mean much of you don’t have much to show for it. Also, *you *originally brought up Sabo’s epithet as hype. Now you’re saying the epithet is irrelevant? Are you sure of what you’re arguing anymore?





ShadoLord said:


> What u saying dog? Zoro has also fought Fuitora during Dressrosa. Sabo didn’t get special treatment alone in that arc.


Zoro hasn't fought a Yonko or Admiral 1v1, Sabo has.

Why are the simplest concepts so hard to grasp for you Zorofans?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## ShadoLord (Jul 24, 2022)

Lmao said:


> Zoro hasn't fought a Yonko or Admiral 1v1, Sabo has.
> 
> Why are the simplest concepts so hard to grasp for you Zorofans?


Gets ur eyes checked cuz I suspect you’re half blind.


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## Lmao (Jul 24, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Gets ur eyes checked cuz I suspect you’re half blind.


Feel free to post panels.


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## Shanks (Jul 24, 2022)

@Lmao solo'ing this entire thread

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jul 24, 2022)

Zoro had an extreme diff against someone GB body bag with the addition of another commander and other beast pirates. While sabo did good against two admirals, injuring fujitora.


Zoro can cut his fire,  well he'll just tire himself out, trying to cut fire instead of hitting sabo himself.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Conxc (Jul 24, 2022)

Lmao said:


> Zoro hasn't fought a Yonko or Admiral 1v1, Sabo has.
> 
> Why are the simplest concepts so hard to grasp for you Zorofans?


You keep saying that, but you’re wrong and I think you know it. Zoro had his times of confronting Kaido 1v1. Short spurts, but he accomplished more in those spurts than Sabo did in his skirmish with Fujitora back on DR. Zoro also had a short skirmish with Fuji, 1v1, on DR. No one is using that to claim Zoro is top tier, though. Funny. As for the MJ confrontation, Sabo was accompanied by his RA counterparts this time. If you’re going to discredit Zoro’s RT feats because others were present, you’d have to do the same here with Sabo. The difference? I can post scans of Zoro injuring Kaido a few times on his own. You can only speculate that Sabo was the person solely responsible for injuring Fuji. What’s so difficult about that for *you *to grasp? Your argument is shallow, superficial. The whole plot is to simply keep repeating the weak argument until it’s accepted. That won’t work against me, sadly.

Sabo has 0 feats competing with blocking Hakkai, injuring or scarring Kaido, or 100-0 a FM in 3 attacks. He has no Haki feats or hype in that regard to compete with Zoro, who can use all three types, including AdCoC, which only a handful of the strongest can use. If you are arguing that Sabo is stronger, cut the shallow arguments and put up the scans and evidence. No one has done that so far. Do that, or concede.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 24, 2022)

Flame Emperor wins. His Haki skills were insane in Dress. After getting the Mera Mera + dealing with admirals in MJ, he’s a beast now.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## themightyvoosh (Jul 24, 2022)

ASL>AH3>M3 in terms of potential. Given an equivalent point in the story, I'd favor Sabo over any of Law, Kidd, Zoro, or Sanji but only in the context of a fight.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Redline (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Levels being Zoro's going to be stronger than Sabo whether it's now or later. Oda showed us every commander that Zoro will surpass in the 1031 colour spread.


Too bad sabo is not a commander anymore


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## Redline (Jul 24, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Gets ur eyes checked cuz I suspect you’re half blind.


Maybe you are not blind but those ham slices in front of your eye doesn't make you to see that much clearly as well


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

Lmao said:


> Zoro hasn't fought a Yonko or Admiral 1v1, Sabo has.
> 
> Why are the simplest concepts so hard to grasp for you Zorofans?



And Sabo hasn't fought a Yonko at all, Zoro has. Kaido is stronger than anyone Sabo has faced, who Zoro managed to wound 1v1.

You're literally just trying to power scale off match ups, but Zoro has canonically fought someone stronger than anyone Sabo has, but you conveniently ignore part

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 1


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

Lol Sabo just got hyped to have portrayal similar to YONKO. He's on another tier than Zoro & far closer to Luffy. Sabo 7/10 high diffs.


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Lol Sabo just got hyped to have portrayal similar to YONKO. He's on another tier than Zoro & far closer to Luffy. Sabo 7/10 high diffs.



He's not even thought of as the 'Flame Emperor' by the WG, just revolutionary stans, so not similar to Yonko.


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> He's not even thought of as the 'Flame Emperor' by the WG, just revolutionary stans, so not similar to Yonko.


Even the Marines were calling him Flame Emperor this chapter...they straight up say he's more infamous than Dragon also. Oda put that there specifically to keep Sabo in his saki brother's ballpark. We knew this was common sense. Luffy, Ace, & Sabo were always gonna be relative to one another.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Even the Marines were calling him Flame Emperor this chapter...they straight up say he's more infamous than Dragon also. Oda put that there specifically to keep Sabo in his saki brother's ballpark. We knew this was common sense. Luffy, Ace, & Sabo were always gonna be relative to one another.



No they said "the one *they're calling* Flame Emperor'


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> No they said "the one *they're calling* Flame Emperor'


Panel 2nd from Bottom right
Marines officially acknowledge him as "Flame Emperor" Sabo.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Panel 2nd from Bottom right
> Marines officially acknowledge him as "Flame Emperor" Sabo.



That's the Revo dude on the loudspeaker not the Navy


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> That's the Revo dude on the loudspeaker not the Navy


No, look at the box it's stated. That someone at the Navy Office speaking while it scene jumps to dude on loudspeaker showing what the Marine is saying is true.

Your reading comprehension needs some work lmao


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> That's the Revo dude on the loudspeaker not the Navy


In fact, THAT'S KIZARU SPEAKING  3rd panel confirms it. He mentions Luffy as Sabo's younger brother  becoming a Yonko then says , Sabo's younger brother just upended the Yonko's status quo 

Kizaru himself acknowledges Sabo as the flames emperor.


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> No, look at the box it's stated. That someone at the Navy Office speaking while it scene jumps to dude on loudspeaker showing what the Marine is saying is true.
> 
> Your reading comprehension needs some work lmao





_Kizaru: On top of that his little brother Strawhat Luffy was dubbed an Emperor

Revolutionary Stan: the Flame Emperor’s influence can even be felt in the pirate world!! His younger brother just upended the status quo!_

My man based his Sabo hype on failed reading comprehension

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> _Kizaru: On top of that his little brother Strawhat Luffy was dubbed an Emperor
> 
> Revolutionary Stan: the Flame Emperor’s influence can even be felt in the pirate world!! His younger brother just upended the status quo!_
> 
> My man based his Sabo hype on failed reading comprehension


LMAO THAT'S KIZARU. Make a poll, literally everyone will tell you that's Kizaru speaking. Like how did you miss that? It's a scene jump while Kizaru is mentioning Sabo & Luffy back at Navy meeting.

This is common sense or are you on Agenda Piece?


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## T.D.A (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> LMAO THAT'S KIZARU. Make a poll, literally everyone will tell you that's Kizaru speaking. Like how did you miss that? It's a scene jump while Kizaru is mentioning Sabo & Luffy back at Navy meeting.
> 
> This is common sense or are you on Agenda Piece?



Bruh I'm literally speaking to a kid. It's the dude in the loudspeaker, hence why the speech bubble is drawn like that and not like normal. Kizaru's not a Revo stan is he


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Bruh I'm literally speaking to a kid. It's the dude in the loudspeaker, hence why the speech bubble is drawn like that and not like normal. Kizaru's not a Revo stan is he


Actually you're correct. I didn't even fully look at the panel.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Great Potato (Jul 24, 2022)

Imagine coming in so cocky only to get served so bad you have to pull a _"I didn't look at the panel" _on a page you posted.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Imagine coming in so cocky only to get served so bad you have to pull a _"I didn't look at the panel" _on a page you posted.


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

You registered here more than 2 years ago and still can't post images and gifs properly?


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You registered here more than 2 years ago and still can't post images and gifs properly?


Nope


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## Mercurial (Jul 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You registered here more than 2 years ago and still can't post images and gifs properly?


As if that was his biggest problem...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> As if that was his biggest problem...



Nah i find it funny he is trying to educate people on the manga while he fails miserably for 2 years to post a simple image

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> As if that was his biggest problem...


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Nah i find it funny he is trying to educate people on the manga while he fails miserably for 2 years to post a simple image


It could be as simple as the device I use doesn't allow for it...that ever cross that huge brain of yours genius?


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> It could be as simple as the device I use doesn't allow for it...that ever cross that huge brain of yours genius?



You just need to type a few letters son

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> You just need to type a few letters son


I would hate for you to be a teacher or live in a 3rd world country  

You say that but what if my device doesn't allow it letters or not  you realize certain devices don't support certain forums etc right?


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> I would hate for you to be a teacher or live in a 3rd world country
> 
> You say that but what if my device doesn't allow it letters or not  you realize certain devices don't support certain forums etc right?



Iam sorry for you son, it's interesting how to spam a crapload of nonsense everywhere though


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## ShWanks (Jul 24, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam sorry for you son, it's interesting how to spam a crapload of nonsense everywhere though


Glad you enjoy it. You should be happy for me.


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Glad you enjoy it. You should be happy for me.



I am, it always was my dream to exchange knowledge with people like you

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Jul 24, 2022)

BladeofTheMorning said:


> Flame Emperor wins. His Haki skills were insane in Dress. After getting the Mera Mera + dealing with admirals in MJ, he’s a beast now.


King of Hell wins. His Haki skills were insane on the rooftop. After getting AdCoC + the ability to cut fire + dealing with Yonkou in Wano, he’s *even more *of a beast now.

If you wanna dick measure Haki feats, we can go there. Just know I’m coming in with a canon. I’m not sure you even have a pea shooter, but this is what I’m saying. Let’s put the feats up. Why doesn’t anybody that claims Sabo wins wanna play?  I realize none of the blondes of OP can _actually_ participate. I’m not sure why y’all keep doing this to them.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## TheWiggian (Jul 24, 2022)

Conxc said:


> King of Hell wins. His Haki skills were insane on the rooftop. After getting AdCoC + the ability to cut fire + dealing with Yonkou in Wano, he’s *even more *of a beast now.
> 
> If you wanna dick measure Haki feats, we can go there. Just know I’m coming in with a canon. I’m not sure you even have a pea shooter, but this is what I’m saying. Let’s put the feats up. Why doesn’t anybody that claims Sabo wins wanna play?  I realize none of the blondes of OP can _actually_ participate. I’m not sure why y’all keep doing this to them.



Ugh it's unwise to bet in haki against Zoro unless you are Luffy or a solid top tier, that's why no one is playing. Zoro has already proven to counter top tier fire based attacks, so there is nothing to get there either especially with the last feats being at Dressrosa, where Sabo had his hands full with the likes of Burgess  

All he has currently is some hype which happened under favourable circumstances and is more of a rumour by the in universe people, who call him flame emperor that weren't even present in the location of the incident.

We had Dressrosa Law escaping from a restricted Fujitora and Doflamingo, so with some back-up and useful dine and dash abilities it's not unthinkable that they could escape with Kuma. No idea whats the big deal about it. Law's or Kid's abilities for example would be even more useful than the mera if you replace Sabo with them and it still wouldn't make them stronger than they are because we already saw the difference between Luffy and them.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Jackalinthebox (Jul 24, 2022)

As far as Zoro Stans are concerned, he would solo 30 Sabos

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jul 24, 2022)

Jackalinthebox said:


> As far as Zoro Stans are concerned, he would solo 30 Sabos


Haha, that’s funny. If you can show me feats on how a single Sabo can beat a single Zoro, I’d laugh even harder.   As I’ve been doing all week, I’ll wait.


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## Jackalinthebox (Jul 24, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Haha, that’s funny. If you can show me feats on how a single Sabo can beat a single Zoro, I’d laugh even harder.   As I’ve been doing all week, I’ll wait.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Lmao (Jul 24, 2022)

Conxc said:


> You keep saying that, but you’re wrong and I think you know it. Zoro had his times of confronting Kaido 1v1.





Conxc said:


> Short spurts


And this why your entire argument is cope. The Scabbards have short spurts of excellence against the WSC too, by your ridiculous metric they are above Sabo too because they have feats of hurting the strongest pirate.

You can try dancing around this fact all you want but Zoro has not proven he can hold his ground against Admirals 1v1 for extended periods of time yet - Sabo has.

In fact we saw exactly what happened  when Zoro got a 1v1 vs someone weaker than an Admiral: he was getting thrown all over Onigashima.



Conxc said:


> If you are arguing that Sabo is stronger, cut the shallow arguments and put up the scans and evidence. No one has done that so far. Do that, or concede.


I showed you a panel of Sabo standing solo against vs Admiral + VAs and backup. Zoro has no such solo portrayal, emphasis on the word solo.

Your headcanon just refuses to accept Sabo has better portrayal than Zoro atm. You legitimately believe Sabo is not even top tier when he basically represents what Ace would've been had he survived MF and that's obviously a top tier. Not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 9


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## Ren. (Jul 25, 2022)

Great Potato said:


> Now that Zoro has stolen the Foxfire style from Kinemon, how do you see this fight go down?


Sabo as I said in 2021

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Lmao said:


> And this why your entire argument is cope. The Scabbards have short spurts of excellence against the WSC too, by your ridiculous metric they are above Sabo too because they have feats of hurting the strongest pirate.


Friend, Sabo’s 1v1 with Fuji isn’t much more time than Zoro’s 1v1 efforts against him. Short spurts or not, you are measuring how they stack up to each other based on the _matchup alone_. Your initial argument was that Sabo fought an Admiral 1 on 1, period. You didn’t care about what he actually *accomplished *in this fight, not necessarily about the length, as their exchange wasn’t for long at all. The Marines were rushing Fuji, Koala was rushing Sabo. *Now* you’re moving the goalpost and invalidating Zoro’s solo feats against Kaido because his 1v1 moments are spread through the RT fight, which is irrelevant to me because 1. He still fought Kaido 1v1. 2. He accomplished way more than Sabo did in his fight. Kaido was actually trying to kill the R5. Fuji was quite literally playing around with Sabo. On top of that, you continuously ignore the part where Zoro had his 1v1 moment with Fuji on DR *as well*, overpowering his gravity and launching his own attack, pushing the Admiral back, and garnering praise from him. That doesn’t count either huh? I’m not gonna continue the back and forth if you’re just gonna respond to what you _think _you _can _counter.

Regarding the Scabbards, Kaido made it quite clear that they didn’t do much to him. He taunted them because their combined efforts couldn’t *re-open *his old scar. Odd argument by you, though, seeing how, again, it’s *your *argument that Sabo is superior to Zoro because he’s fought an Admiral. You’re now crying foul because I’m taking it a step further by showing Zoro fighting a Yonkou and accomplishing more. By bringing up the Scabbards in an attempt to depreciate Zoro’s accomplishments, you’re inadvertently doing the same to Sabo’s amazing feat of being a punching bag for an Admiral solo, as even the Scabbards pieced together better performances against Kaido than Sabo did against Fuji. 


Lmao said:


> You can try dancing around this fact all you want but Zoro has not proven he can hold his ground against Admirals 1v1 for extended periods of time yet - Sabo has.


Sabo was a glorified punching bag on DR, and as I said above, his exchange with Fuji didn’t last as long as you want us to believe, and it was *very *much one-sided. Again, Zoro had his time with Fuji as well. Looked more impressive too, is the funny part.

Side question for you though. Let’s see how far gone you are: Sabo vs Yamato. Who wins? 


Lmao said:


> In fact we saw exactly what happened  when Zoro got a 1v1 vs someone weaker than an Admiral: he was getting thrown all over Onigashima.


Poor argument. For one, Zoro, or any of the R5 stood about as much of an actual change against Kaido as Sabo did to Fuji back on DR, meaning no chance. They pulled off some great feats, but that doesn’t put them on said characters’ level. It makes perfect sense that someone comparable to them would still be able to pressure them. King pressuring Zoro so much only elevates King, not depreciate Zoro’s performance against Kaido.


Lmao said:


> I showed you a panel of Sabo standing solo against vs Admiral + VAs and backup. Zoro has no such solo portrayal, emphasis on the word solo.


Lmfao. You’re a piece of work. All of those guys didn’t attack him and even if they did, he’s a Logia. Only the VA and Fuji could do anything to him in the first place. Zoro wa standing alone against Kaido in a near death state and got the better of that exchange. That’s better than anything Sabo has done.


Lmao said:


> Your headcanon just refuses to accept Sabo has better portrayal than Zoro atm. You legitimately believe Sabo is not even top tier when he basically represents what Ace would've been had he survived MF and that's obviously a top tier. Not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously here.


No, he doesn’t. As I keep asking, show me the feats. This is getting boring.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

And I honestly don’t know why y’all keep comparing Sabo to Ace. By the time Ace was Luffy’s age, he was traveling the NW and defeating guys like Jinbe. He was several time stronger than even Luffy by 17. He clearly had the best growth rate out of the three. He dueled WB 100 times solo, since that seems to be the gauge of strength here, and managed to burn him on the 100th duel, more than Sabo managed vs Fuji on DR. This means rookie 17-18 year old Ace was comparable to DR Sabo, if not stronger. Sabo’s growth rate and potential are not the same as Ace’s.


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## Ludi (Jul 25, 2022)

Some peoples tiering aged like milk here. Sabo clearly wins, even Vs current Zoro. Sabo low diffs the zoro of this thread, which was a zoro that would get ragdolled by king

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Chip Skylark (Jul 25, 2022)

Sabo's fight against Fuji lasted for almost 10 chapters.


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## Ren. (Jul 25, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Some peoples tiering aged like milk here. Sabo clearly wins, even Vs current Zoro. Sabo low diffs the zoro of this thread, which was a zoro that would get ragdolled by king


ZEHAHA.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Sabo's fight against Fuji lasted for almost 10 chapters.


How much in-verse time, though? It’s not like it was 10 straight chapters of Sabo vs Fuji.


Ludi said:


> Some peoples tiering aged like milk here. Sabo clearly wins, even Vs current Zoro. Sabo low diffs the zoro of this thread, which was a zoro that would get ragdolled by king


Like I said, put the Haki feats on the table. Put the evidence that Sabo is strong enough to overcome the advantages that Zoro has which include AdCoC and Foxfire style, then we’ll talk.


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

and I’m just saying, when a character is _clearly _stronger than another, it should be easy to prove as such with feats. If it’s _clear_, at least. When you have to pander and overhype based on an epithet, and just being in the presence of a superior character without actually accomplishing anything, your argument probably ain’t very good.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chip Skylark (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> How much in-verse time, though? It’s not like it was 10 straight chapters of Sabo vs Fuji.


In the same amount of time Luffy & Law were able to scale the Flower Hill and make it to Doffy. However you look at it that's definitely far longer than any exchange Zoro has had with a top tier. Sabo may or may not be able to defeat Current Zoro, but he should definitely be able to beat this version of Zoro.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> In the same amount of time Luffy & Law were able to scale the Flower Hill and make it to Doffy. However you look at it that's definitely far longer than any exchange Zoro has had with a top tier. Sabo may or may not be able to defeat Current Zoro, but he should definitely be able to beat this version of Zoro.


This isn’t current Zoro? I thought this was current Sabo vs current Zoro.

I see what you’re saying, but how much value would you personally place on Sabo’s performance against Fuji on DR? I feel like Fuji just used him for entertainment, was toying with him the whole time. It’s been a while since I read DR, but I recall Sabo saying as much himself. How much value would you place on that when compared to
Zoro’s performances against top tiers, his solo feats, at least? I think Zoro accomplished a lot more in less time, which is more valuable to me. Just means to me if given the appropriate time window, Zoro would do more in comparison to Sabo.


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## Chip Skylark (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> This isn’t current Zoro? I thought this was current Sabo vs current Zoro.
> 
> I see what you’re saying, but how much value would you personally place on Sabo’s performance against Fuji on DR? I feel like Fuji just used him for entertainment, was toying with him the whole time. It’s been a while since I read DR, but I recall Sabo saying as much himself. How much value would you place on that when compared to
> Zoro’s performances against top tiers, his solo feats, at least? I think Zoro accomplished a lot more in less time, which is more valuable to me. Just means to me if given the appropriate time window, Zoro would do more in comparison to Sabo.


Think this is RT Zoro since GP made this thread almost two years ago when we found out that Zoro learned the fox fire style.

I agree that it doesn't say too much about Sabo's level of ability for the reasons that you mentioned, but Sabo should still benefit from his position in the RA (if he's meant to be seen on par with YC1), and whatever potential gains he may have gotten from his recent hype; since Sabo had already rescued Kuma by the time the RT fight happened. 

Zoro's performance against King is a perfect example of how he'd perform against a top tier in a real 1v1. Zoro may have been capable of powerful bursts of strength here and there, but that evidently didn't mean that he could compete against a more powerful fighter in a solo fight.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## TheWiggian (Jul 25, 2022)

King of Hell (a place full of fire/flames) > Flame Emperor

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Rp4lyf (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> And I honestly don’t know why y’all keep comparing Sabo to Ace. By the time Ace was Luffy’s age, he was traveling the NW and defeating guys like Jinbe. He was several time stronger than even Luffy by 17. He clearly had the best growth rate out of the three. He dueled WB 100 times solo, since that seems to be the gauge of strength here, and managed to burn him on the 100th duel, more than Sabo managed vs Fuji on DR. This means rookie 17-18 year old Ace was comparable to DR Sabo, if not stronger. Sabo’s growth rate and potential are not the same as Ace’s.


Actually, the Ace novel said itntook him 1year to reach the new world, meaning it was 28 year old.Ace that fought Jinbei.

17 year old Ace is weaker than 17 year old Luffy ane 17 year old Sabo

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Rp4lyf said:


> Actually, the Ace novel said itntook him 1year to reach the new world, meaning it was 28 year old.Ace that fought Jinbei.
> 
> 17 year old Ace is weaker than 17 year old Luffy ane 17 year old Sabo


Ahh ok. I don't think he was weaker than them, though. He was already RA Level, and consciously able to use Haki by that point. He still comes out on top against the two. 18 year old Ace still wasn't prime Ace, and that Ace is still more comparable to DR Sabo.


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## Ludi (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Like I said, put the Haki feats on the table. Put the evidence that Sabo is strong enough to overcome the advantages that Zoro has which include AdCoC and Foxfire style, then we’ll talk.


Fortunately debating this manga isn't feats only. Otherwise many threads should be auto locked.

Speaking about feats, this zoro loses to YC1 characters, canonically. 

If you think characters weaker than characters weaker than YC1 will be getting this kind of hype and will be massively relevant to the story you are reading some other manga. Sabo by hype and portrayal is > YC1, obviously, this zoro is weaker than a YC1.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Ludi said:


> Fortunately debating this manga isn't feats only. Otherwise many threads should be auto locked.
> 
> Speaking about feats, this zoro loses to YC1 characters, canonically.
> 
> If you think characters weaker than characters weaker than YC1 will be getting this kind of hype and will be massively relevant to the story you are reading some other manga. Sabo by hype and portrayal is > YC1, obviously, this zoro is weaker than a YC1.


Frankly, guys choose to throw the meaning of feats out the window doesn't sit right with me. It's a cop out. Character A has better feats, which is often synonymous to better portrayal, but that doesn't count because blah blah blah. Gotta love it. Anyway, canonically, this Zoro's biggest issue was figuring out King's trick. This was explicitly stated. Zoro himself said that he would not be able to win specifically if he did not figure out King's trick. He has never shyed away from admitting when another character is stronger than him. Everyone also conveniently forgets the arm shriveling and Haki drain that he was going through during the fight that didn't happen to him on the RT. And no, Sabo's combat hype is not > that level of character. We can't rightfully attribute Fuji's head being bandaged to him when Sabo had help. Otherwise, he has failed to do any kind of harm to top tier characters. This Zoro has several feats of the sort. According to you, he was below "YC1" level, right?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Ludi (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Frankly, guys choose to throw the meaning of feats out the window doesn't sit right with me. It's a cop out. Character A has better feats, which is often synonymous to better portrayal, but that doesn't count because blah blah blah. Gotta love it. Anyway, canonically, this Zoro's biggest issue was figuring out King's trick. This was explicitly stated. Zoro himself said that he would not be able to win specifically if he did not figure out King's trick. He has never shyed away from admitting when another character is stronger than him. Everyone also conveniently forgets the arm shriveling and Haki drain that he was going through during the fight that didn't happen to him on the RT. And no, Sabo's combat hype is not > that level of character. We can't rightfully attribute Fuji's head being bandaged to him when Sabo had help. Otherwise, he has failed to do any kind of harm to top tier characters. This Zoro has several feats of the sort. According to you, he was below "YC1" level, right?


I have him below the YC1 characters but in the same tier at the beginning of the fight and above them after the fight. 

Sabi is clearly not portrayed below YC1s if Oda wants to keep him relevant going further. 

Sabo > current zoro > king > this zoro


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Ludi said:


> I have him below the YC1 characters but in the same tier at the beginning of the fight and above them after the fight.
> 
> Sabi is clearly not portrayed below YC1s if Oda wants to keep him relevant going further.
> 
> Sabo > current zoro > king > this zoro


So what puts Sabo above the "YC1" level when you have a guy who was launching attacks that one Yonkou emphatically warned another to dodge, blocking the combined attack of two Yonkou, permanently scarring the strongest character in the verse in a near death state, etc, below that level?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ludi (Jul 25, 2022)

Conxc said:


> So what puts Sabo above the "YC1" level when you have a guy who was launching attacks that one Yonkou emphatically warned another to dodge, blocking the combined attack of two Yonkou, permanently scarring the strongest character in the verse in a near death state, etc, below that level?


This Zoro is below YC1 level as he got bopped by a YC1, though his AP was high and, especially in team settings, that can be very dangerous still.

This sabo scales far above that. Whether you are going to make 1, 10 or a 100 posts about that.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Conxc (Jul 25, 2022)

Ludi said:


> This Zoro is below YC1 level as he got bopped by a YC1, though his AP was high and, especially in team settings, that can be very dangerous still.
> 
> This sabo scales far above that. Whether you are going to make 1, 10 or a 100 posts about that.


Not surprised, but you didn’t answer the question. What does Sabo have that puts him above Zoro’s RT feats/portrayal?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jul 25, 2022)

Zoro would get folded if he was fighting 2 admirals


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## Ludi (Jul 26, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Not surprised, but you didn’t answer the question. What does Sabo have that puts him above Zoro’s RT feats/portrayal?



His feats and portrayal put him above someone weaker than king, but I see this is going nowhere


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## Santoryu (Jul 26, 2022)




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## Skaddix (Jul 26, 2022)

Sabo > Zoro. 

If your the future leader of you own powerful faction then you will liable to be stronger then Zoro.


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## BladeofTheMorning (Jul 26, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> King of Hell (a place full of fire/flames) > Flame Emperor


Haha. The lowest level of Hell isn't flames and heat, it's ice/cold/a frozen wasteland, well according to Dante. So if Zoro claims to be the KoH, he has to ask Aokiji's permission first.

As for Sabo V Zoro, Zoro has the better on page feats, in terms of overall off page and on page stuff, Sabo. 

I only say Sabo due to him clashing with Fuji not only once for more than one chapter but twice when he went to MJ with the Revos, and that was GB and Fuji. To me it is either: two or three revo commanders = an Admiral or 4 commanders = one admiral and Sabo took on one on his own. This is all hypothetical and we need actual information to gauge Sabo's power. 

However, you don't clash with an admiral/s twice and get to walk away with out scars, ask Jozu, Ace, Marco (shot by Kizaru), and Luffy. 

So yes, Zoro has on page feats, so feat wise as of the latest chapter he takes it. But in terms of what happened at MJ and how Sabo clashed with admirals again and was successful in his attack (with help) and the fact he was dubbed the Flame Emp by others and didn't give the name himself, I would say Sabo. 

Always good to see different perspectives here.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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