# Bleach vs. Justice League Unlimited



## Zaelapolopollo (Sep 8, 2009)

So basically who could beat who in this fight? Obviously AMAZO and I guess Chaos Grundy are too much so they're excluded. Full power Flash too.

But beyond those three, who could any one Bleach character defeat in JL/JLU?


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Pretty much everyone else. Aside from, of course, Luthor with the ALE.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

It varies wildly depending on the character and whether or not powerscaling is used for people like Captain Old Dude.


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## skiboydoggy (Sep 8, 2009)

They won't even beat Aquaman.


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## Rice Ball (Sep 8, 2009)

Bleach hate > Aquaman hate


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## Zaelapolopollo (Sep 8, 2009)

JLU Aquaman is not to be confused with his faggy comic self though.


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## Sasori (Sep 8, 2009)

JLU Aquaman is somewhat GAR.


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## noobthemusical (Sep 8, 2009)

JLA still has darksied and the source.


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## King Fawful (Sep 8, 2009)

But Iz though Jlu Superman < Sakura


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

There's really no one left who can even measure up to the speed of Bleach figures aside from Flash and he's pretty much useless against all their attacks. Superman an such may be physically stronger, but that doesn't mean shit. Supes has near zero durability against anything of an otherworldly nature, ie *Everything* in Bleach. Diana's personal durability is pretty crap and her only defense is her bracelets which ain't gonna stop Byakuya's petals from ripping her to pieces.

Quite frankly Grimmjow beats the shit out of most of the JLU cast. Kenpachi will be fightin the Annihilator armor for like 20min before he's 'used' to how hard it is and starts cutting into it and eventually ripping it to pieces.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

> There's really no one left who can even measure up to the speed of Bleach figures aside from Flash and he's pretty much useless against all their attacks.



What attacks are going to keep Flash from punching them all in the nuts five hundred times apiece?



> Superman an such may be physically stronger, but that doesn't mean shit. Supes has near zero durability against anything of an otherworldly nature, ie Everything in Bleach.


Supes is only vulnerable to magic, not "otherworldly stuff" in general. And he's fast enough to keep up with Flash.



> Diana's personal durability is pretty crap and her only defense is her bracelets which ain't gonna stop Byakuya's petals from ripping her to pieces.



Diana's durability is sufficient for her to trade blows with Superman IIRC.



> Quite frankly Grimmjow beats the shit out of most of the JLU cast.



Everyone except the main characters and a few of the others as well, like Plastic Man for example.




> Kenpachi will be fightin the Annihilator armor for like 20min before he's 'used' to how hard it is and starts cutting into it and eventually ripping it to pieces.



I am somehow less than convinced that this is going to happen.


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## Raviene (Sep 8, 2009)

this will be over in a few se- ...oh flash is excluded huh.. 

how bout the magic woman zantana(forgot name) ...couldn't she use some hax juju or sumthin


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Zatanna: sgaf hcaelB eiD.


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## Orion (Sep 8, 2009)

Annihilator caves their heads in.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

> Supes is only vulnerable to magic, not "otherworldly stuff" in general. And he's fast enough to keep up with Flash.



He's been wounded by Demons and extradimensional creatures. Which're both "otherworldly" and supernatural. Hollows in Bleach are pretty much demons and pretty much every figure in Bleach is supernatural. Also, he only raced the Flash back in Superman TAS and they weren't going nearly as fast as people claimed. Flash got faster in JL/U, but not by much, and Superman has never really demonstrated his speed in battle except against people who weren't even peak human speed level.

Not to mention Flash isn't all that bright and has been tripped up by things on the ground and falling debris. Nothing nearly as controlled as the speed in Bleach save for his pelting of Justice Lord Superman with bits of granite. 



> Diana's durability is sufficient for her to trade blows with Superman and Lobo.



Blunt force =/= edged durability. Also, she got her ass kicked by Mongul who was beaten pretty handily by Superman in TAS. Also, Diana has been shown to be hurt by Black Manta's darts, which aren't stated as being super strong or supernatural.



> What attacks are going to keep Flash from IMPing the lot of them fifty times in the nuts each?



This isn't comic Flash, he doesn't have IMP nor the Speed Force. And Flash, as shown, has trouble moving against things that're outside his field of vision, such as falling debris and the ground splitting. Near everyone in Bleach has some speed maneuver that makes them completely vanish from sight and really Ichigo blitzing around Byakuya in their fight was more impressive than anything Flash has done outside his Speed Force moment.



> I am somehow less than convinced that this is going to happen.



It's how he dealt with Nnoitra's durability. I don't see what's stoppin him from doin it here.


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## Emperor Joker (Sep 8, 2009)

JLU still has the freaking Presence.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Raigen said:


> He's been wounded by Demons and extradimensional creatures.


Of the magic variety, IIRC.



> Hollows in Bleach are pretty much demons.



Pretty much =/= are.



> Also, he only raced the Flash back in Superman TAS and they weren't going nearly as fast as people claimed. Flash got faster in JL/U, but not by much, and Superman has never really demonstrated his speed in battle except against people who weren't even peak human speed level.



So what you're saying is, Superman can keep up with Flash and you've got no way of countering that shit. 




> Not to mention Flash isn't all that bright and has been tripped up by things on the ground and falling debris. Nothing nearly as controlled as the speed in Bleach save for his pelting of Justice Lord Superman with bits of granite.





> And Flash, as shown, has trouble moving against things that're outside his field of vision, such as falling debris and the ground splitting.



So what you're saying is, you've got nothing and are just going to say "LOL FLASH CATN DO SHIT CUZ HE'Z A TARD".

Good to know.



> This isn't comic Flash, he doesn't have IMP nor the Speed Force.


If he didn't have the Speed Force, he wouldn't have any powers. Ergo, he does have the Speed Force. In related news, 1+1=2.



> really Ichigo blitzing around Byakuya in their fight was more impressive than anything Flash has done outside his Speed Force moment.


Being more impressive and being faster are two different things.



> It's how he dealt with Nnoitra's durability. I don't see what's stoppin him from doin it here.



Nnoitra wasn't created by a god to be indestructible.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Again, no. He does not have speed force. We covered this. He didn't have it, touch it, nor know of its existence until the fight against Brainiac-Luthor. Nothing you say can prove otherwise. Other figures in JLU have shown levels of super-speed and not have speed force. Your continual ignorance of this fact is disheartening, but not at all unexpected from you.



> Pretty much =/= are.



Different name, same deal. Like trying to say Chi is different from Spirit energy or Reiatsu. It's not. Different name, still the same damn thing.



> Of the magic variety, IIRC.



It was a demon, demonic energy. Magic is their only term for everything that's supernatural. Doesn't change the fact that Bleach does the same thing. So don't be ridiculous. Besides, Shinigami have Kido spells, which, as you may just be familiar with, is still "magic". So, again, you fail.



> Nnoitra wasn't created by a god to be indestructible.



And it wasn't indestructible. Also, Hephaestus was smacked around by Diana for making it and Ares didn't exactly do anything impressive. He appeared, killed a normal human, and left when people stopped fighting. He was a prissy little bitch and nothing more. The only God in JL/U who did anything was Hades and he'd get his ass kicked too by Bleach figures. Don't think spouting the term God means shit here. Shinigami quite literally means "Death God".



> Being more impressive and being faster are two different things.



When Flash can stop a million tiny blades moving at super speed in a few seconds, then I'll not he's on Bankai Ichigo's level. Until then, he fails with the rest.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

> Again, no. He does not have speed force. We covered this. He didn't have it, touch it, nor know of its existence until the fight against Brainiac-Luthor.


Not knowing he's got access to it and not having access to it are two different things. No Speed Force, so superspeed.



> Nothing you say can prove otherwise.



That's all right, because you're the one who has to prove it.



> Other figures in JLU have shown levels of super-speed and not have speed force.


Other figures in the JLU aren't the Flash.



> The continual ignorance of me, Raigen, in reference to this fact is disheartening, but not at all unexpected from me, Raigen.



Aww, don't be so hard on yourself Raigen. 



> Different name, same deal. Like trying to say Chi is different from Spirit energy or Reiatsu. It's not. Different name, still the same damn thing.



Reiatsu and magic aren't the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you're just an insane fanboy, in which case, your opinion would be meaningless. ^_^



> It was a demon, demonic energy. Magic is their only term for everything that's supernatural. Doesn't change the fact that Bleach doesn't do the same thing.


 Indeed, indeed. 



> Besides, Shinigami have Kido spells, which, as you may just be familiar with, is still "magic".


Kido is indeed magic. But Kido is not the same thing as everything else in the Bleachverse. Keep trying. ^_^



> And it wasn't indestructible.



Or was it? *DUN DUN DUUUUUUNNN*




> Also, Hephaestus was smacked around by Diana for making it and Ares didn't exactly do anything impressive. He appeared, killed a normal human, and left when people stopped fighting. He was a prissy little bitch and nothing more. The only God in JL/U who did anything was Hades and he'd get his ass kicked too by Bleach figures.



So what you're saying is, you've got nothing and are resorting to downplaying the abilities of JLU characters because you're butthurt.



> Don't think spouting the term God means shit here. Shinigami quite literally means "Death God".



*GREAT SCOTT!* I had no idea that Shinigami meant death god! Oh wait, yes I did.

Irrelevant though, because Hephaestus is actually a god, while Shinigami is just a fancy name which Kubo himself stated was merely a word used due to the limits of the Japanese language to convey his intent. ^_^



> When Flash can stop a million tiny blades moving at super speed in a few seconds, then I'll not he's on Bankai Ichigo's level. Until then, he fails with the rest.



Why would he want to do that when he could just punch Byakuya in the nads five billion times in the time it takes for him to say his Zanpakuto's release command?


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## Shoddragon (Sep 8, 2009)

anyway, since you said no amazo.... GOLDEN amazo takes this .  The Flash was capable of reaching the sun in just around 7 minutes so he was around lightspeed if not a bit FTL. anyway he got close enough to toss a small object into it so yea.


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## Shoddragon (Sep 8, 2009)

Sasori said:


> JLU Aquaman is somewhat GAR.



this I agree with. he looks insanely manly and has a hook for a hand if I am not mistaken.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

It's a harpoon that can shoot out like a spear. He chopped his hand off himself to save his son.

Saying JLU Aquaman is only "somewhat" GAR is like saying Superman is only somewhat strong.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

> That's all right, because you're the one who has to prove it.



Wrong. You have to prove Flash has speeforce. You claim he does outside of that one episode, that means you have to prove he does. Just having super-speed is not evidence of anything. Superman has super speed, even Diana to a degree, as does Hawk and Dove, even if they're not quite up to par, they still have a measure of super speed and do not have speed force. If you're whole argument is "he has super speed so he has speed force", then that means *every* character with any measure of Super speed now has Speed Force simply because they have super speed.



> Why would he want to do that when he could just punch Byakuya in the nads five billion times in the time it takes for him to say his Zanpakuto's release command?



Once more you outrageously overstate Flash's speed. He's barely hypersonic without Speed Force.



> Irrelevant though, because Hephaestus is actually a god, while Shinigami is just a fancy name. ^_^



Tell that to Ryuk and Dark Zero. "god" itself is nothing more than a fancy title. Your argument fails continuously.



> Kido is indeed magic. But Kido is not the same thing as everything else in the Bleachverse. Keep trying. ^_^



Kido spells use Reiatsu. Pretty much every energy based attack in Bleach uses Reiatsu as its power sources. Look elsewhere. Shamanic spells and magic in various universes use spiritual energy, aka chi, reiatsu, spirit force, spectral energy, etc etc. You really need to learn some things.



> capable of reaching the sun in just around 7 minutes so he was around lightspeed if not a bit FTL. anyway he got close enough to toss a small object into it so yea.



Incorrect, as usual. GL was bolstering Flash's speed and giving him a plane to run on in order to bring the hyperspace generator from one of their ships close enough to lightspeed in order for it to activate and Flash had to launch it towards the sun at that speed. He did not actually reach the sun.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

> You have to prove Flash has spee*d*force.



He's Flash. Flash gets his powers from the Speed Force. Ergo, he has the Speed Force.



> You claim he does outside of that one episode, that means you have to prove he does.



That one episode is enough to establish that the Speed Force exists, and as it is the major supplier of Flash's powers in every other continuity, it must therefore be the source of his powers in this one. This is called a reasonable assumption. Something you probably don't have much experience with.



> Just having super-speed is not evidence of anything.



Technically accurate.



> Superman has super speed, even Diana to a degree, as does Hawk and Dove, even if they're not quite up to par, they still have a measure of super speed and do not have speed force.



You'll notice that a major common factor with all of these characters is that they are not Wally West.



> If you're whole argument is "he has super speed so he has speed force", then that means every character with any measure of Super speed now has Speed Force simply because they have super speed.



Resorting to Straw Man arguments, eh?

My argument is "He's the Flash so he has Speed Force".



> Once more you outrageously overstate Flash's speed. He's barely hypersonic without Speed Force.



A: Without the Speed Force he's Peak Human at best, more likely standard human. With the Speed Force, he's considerably faster.

B: Even if he were "Barely hypersonic" that would be more than enough to punch Byakuya in the nads a whole shitload of times in the time it takes for him to say a few words. ^_^



> Tell that to Ryuk and Dark Zero.



I've got no idea who they are, but they are not Bleach characters and are therefore irrelevant.



> "god" itself is nothing more than a fancy title.


Then why did you bring it up?



> Kido spells use Reiatsu. Pretty much every energy based attack in Bleach uses Reiatsu as its power sources.


 So things in Bleach use a universal power source. Big froopin doop.

Having the same source of power =/= being the same thing. ^_^


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Comic Flash gets his powers from the Speed Force. JL/U Flash =/= Comic Flash


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

I accept your concession and thank you for your kind words, but I am afraid I must reject your sexual advances. You are not my type.


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## God (Sep 8, 2009)

JLU has full power Darkseid, Brainiac-Luthor, Superman, GL etc etc. They win.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Your concession was noted on the 1st page. You can't prove anything you say and continue to ignore anything you disagree with. You have failed ultimately and intentionally. There's only one thing left for you to do-


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Don't forget Mxyzptlk and Gsptlsnz. ^_^


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Last we saw Mxy he had his powers revoked until he did community service and has not been seen since. 5D-imps also aren't part of the league. But whatever, you're just grasping at whatever you can now. Orihime goes "I reject" and Mxy is gone. Or anyone of reasonable intelligence gets him to go away forever by tricking him. And actually IIRC Mxy can't cause trouble anymore because he had already promised not to and in sending Bizzaro to whoop Superman he broke his promise and had his powers revoked. So any action on his part has the Courts dumping his powers again.

Also, GL gets massacred by Kenpachi. GL suffers from yellow weakness, Kenpachi has yellow reiatsu aura. To get you to realize the seriousness of this weakness, a Luthor possessed Flash lobbed a bowl of yellow hello at GL and it went right through his shield and knocked his ass over.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes, thank you,, Raigen, for reminding me that JLU also has Chronos. He traps team Bleach in a never ending time loop, or sends them back to the time of the dinosaurs right before the meteor struck or something.


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## Pika305 (Sep 8, 2009)

Whats this yellow reaitsu shown in the manga?


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## Whip Whirlwind (Sep 8, 2009)

How would bleachverse deal with Zatanna?

Or captain marvel? Or martian manhunter?

I have trouble recalling how powered down the Animated characters are in comparison to their comic counterparts.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Chronos in JLU was only human with a time suit and he failed miserably. he himself is trapped in a never-ending time loop thanks to Batman.



> How would bleachverse deal with Zatanna?
> 
> Or captain marvel? Or martian manhunter?
> 
> I have trouble recalling how powered down the Animated characters are in comparison to their comic counterparts.



Zatanna's magic is weak bullshit in the JLU series. Physically she's not even peak human, far from it, and she'd die long before she could even utter a single word to a spell. Cap Marvel is also only about Superman strong and pathetic as a fighter. A Cero or two would put him down. J'onn would just get taken down. Intangibility doesn't save you from guys who can directly attack your soul and J'onn isn't nearly as fast as some of the other figures. J'onn also doesn't have mindrape here. It was a tremendous strain the last time he did it on a Thanagarian. Even just opening is mind to a city full of people nearly drove him mad.

Really, the JL/U cast is so much weaker than their comic selves it's not funny. While I still found the series enjoyable, they don't even begin to compare to their comic counterparts.


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## Raviene (Sep 8, 2009)

wasnt the force that was sucking flash in after he circled the globe a couple of times in a sec just to bash luthors armor called speed force? >>>he says he feels warm and cozy in it 

but why are we even debating Flash..OP said he is excluded

anyways...there are just a lot of haxxed chars and other cosmic beings in JLU that make it really hard to imagine Bleach winning this one


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Heck, Braniac on his own could probably do pretty well, he doesn't even need Luthor.


Circe, Tala and Morgan la Fey annihilate them all! *evil laugh*

Flash's Rogues are always fun to deal with.

Grodd, now there's a tough customer.

And of course, not one, but _three_ Batmans. Old Bruce, young Bruce and Terry. 

Oh, and Ace. Can't forget about good old Ace. ^_^




> but why are we even debating Flash..OP said he is excluded



OP said full power Flash is excluded. ^_^


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

> anyways...there are just a lot of haxxed chars and other cosmic beings in JLU that make it really hard to imagine Bleach winning this one



Not really. Destroyer Darkseid wasn't all that different from his original self and Batman avoided his Omega Beams still. Even that New God who can move through time to record history really doesn't do anything at all besides that. He has no feats. Most of the Greek Gods don't show themselves and those that did were far from being impressive, most didn't really do anything like Ares, Hermes and Hephaestus. Hades is the only one with some fight scenes and those aren't enough to make him capable of being too much help.

The only other "godly" figure is the one who guides Deadman and she doesn't do a damn thing either aside from communication and berating him. The only really haxed characters they had were Amazo and Chaos Grundy.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm glad you finally see that Bleach has no chance, Raigen.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

JLU has no chance. Ichigo is haxed and Aizen fucks everyone by himself.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes, Clock King would indeed be an excellent strategist with prep.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Ah yes, I'd nearly forgotten about Medusa. One look at her and team Bleach would be turned to stone.

Except for Tosen. And maybe Yamamoto's lieutenant(can't remember if he's blind or not).


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Medusa's imprisoned and she gets decapitated before a thought passes through her tiny brain. Also requires Charon to bring her out and you gotta pay him for that. Your mountain of fail is overflowing.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Killer Frost vs Hitsugaya, now there's a match to watch.

Hitsugaya would find that he's not got a monopoly on ice.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Rukia uses ice too, as does Ice herself from the JLU team. Killer Frost could barely stop an avalanche of snow. As for Hitsugaya, the more water, moisture and ice around him, the stronger his powers are. Hitsugaya doesn't just freeze things, he also affects the atmosphere. Also, he can speedblitz her instantly.

Nevermind also that if you tried to argue for Medusa the whole JLU side would have to wear blindfolds to keep from looking at her and she'd have to be close for her powers to work and it would avail them nothing as Bleach unloads with AoE attacks that obliterates most of the JLU cast. Byakuya says; "Destructive Art 33, Soukatsui" and there goes a whole team of people.

7:25 in
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4HqkEYhyd8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Nah, I'd wager that Yamamoto could beat Volcana. Powerscaling and what not. Plus he's just cooler. ^_^


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Edorad has more firepower than Volcana. Though I agree she was the hawtness.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

Now that you mention it Braniac 5 did appear in JLU.

Dude is smarter than all of 20th century earth as a whole.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Course being smarter doesn't help when he gets decapitated. He has no strength or durability feats outside a belt that absorbs impact. Doesn't save him from being hacked to pieces. Besides, Rangiku suffocates them all to death with her tits.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

They've even got a Cthulhu clone named Icthultu.

Check it out, yo:


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

He got his brain smashed in by normal Grundy and was finished off by Shayera. Kenpachi still trumps them.


His shirt. He's too sexy for it.


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## Onomatopoeia (Sep 8, 2009)

But I digress, JLU wins, Bleach loses and my post count goes up. Toodles.


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## Raigen (Sep 8, 2009)

Your concession is noted. Seems you got the message.


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## God (Sep 8, 2009)

Chronos shuts down time, takes Kenpachi's sword, and beheads the entirety of Bleach.


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