# Madara Uchiha vs Itachi Uchiha (read OP).



## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

*EMS Madara Uchiha vs Itachi Uchiha.*

*Battlefield:* Shinobi Alliance vs Juubi.
*Restrictions:* Perfect Susanoo, Kyuubi, Gunbai, Kotoamatsukami.
*State of mind:* calm, but want to kill each other, Madara is serious and doesnt play around.
*Starting Distance:* 100 meters.

*Both of them are in their prime, Itachi is healthy and his MS is as good as if he havent used it before. *


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## ARGUS (Feb 10, 2015)

Madara wins this

 -- his reserves are much superior too itachis and if he has EMS  here then using susanoo is just a piece of cake for him, so even if he cant busst itachis susanoo, he can still outlast it and finish him off once hes defenseless

 -- outside of susanoo, madara is faster than him, has superior kenjutsu to him, and has much superior reserves so even then he wins


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## RBL (Feb 10, 2015)

prime healthy itachi?
also, no perfect susanoo for Madara?

itachi solos low-mid diff and i'm being humble


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## Kai (Feb 10, 2015)

Itachi can't handle an extended battle against Madara's chakra reserves, yet that's what will inevitably happen because Itachi has no way to end Madara quickly.

There's no way he can win.


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## Veracity (Feb 10, 2015)

Spite thread ? 

Itachis reactions are close to that of sage Naruto, and alive Madara was toying with Sage naruto. Itachi would need Sussano 100% of the time to stop from being outright blitzed in CQC. Not to mention the speed, reactions and Taijustu difference in CQC. Itachis best bet is to camp inside sussano. Except Madara has a stronger and bigger Sussano + has him beat in stamina. Amaterasu is rendered useless against Juubi sized katon and sussanos defense. Itachi gets curbstomped here. You can make it 3 Itachis and the outcome wouldn't change.


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## Blu-ray (Feb 10, 2015)

According to everyone and their mothers in the youtube comment section, Itachi>Madara.

But for us more sensible people, Itachi dies a horrible death. Genjutsu and clone feints are Itachi's bread and butter, and both are completely useless here. Itachi might as well as have his arms tied behind his back. Itachi will be forced to camp in Susano'o from the get go, only to run out of stamina first. The moment that happens is the moment Itachi dies.


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## Hachibi (Feb 10, 2015)

VolatileSoul said:


> *According to everyone and their mothers in the youtube comment section, Itachi>Madara.*
> 
> But for us more sensible people, Itachi dies a horrible death. Genjutsu and clone feints are Itachi's bread and butter, and both are completely useless here. Itachi might as well as have his arms tied behind his back. Itachi will be forced to camp in Susano'o from the get go, only to run out of stamina first. The moment that happens is the moment Itachi dies.


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## Blu-ray (Feb 10, 2015)

Hachibi said:


>



He just couldn't be satisfied with wrecking Galactus.


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## RBL (Feb 10, 2015)

lol at people saying madara wins, look at these scans, and think twice before posting crap about kingtachi.



*'HASHIRAMA IS STRONGER THAN ME' STATED BY MADARA HIMSELF.*

*then some chapters later, hashirama admits inferiority to Sasuke's Brother*



*FOR THOSE WHO DON'T WHO SASUKE'S BROTHER IS:*

*THIS IS SASUKE'S BROTHER:
*


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 10, 2015)

Madara outlasts.

Superior reactions (V2 Ei level as a weaker Edo variant), larger chakra pool and vastly superior Katons and Magatamas.

He _might_ take down a single Madara bunshin.


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## sabre320 (Feb 10, 2015)

madaras reserves are far larger neither is destroying the others sussano so madara outlasts


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## Ghost (Feb 10, 2015)

Madara wins mid diff.

His Susano'o shields him from Itachi's Amaterasu and he should be more than capable of breaking out of Tsukuyomi.

Madara's stamina is better, and his chakra reserves much larger. Itachi will tire out first.


edit. Itachi's only way to win is to land a hit with Totsuka, but that's not likely to happen.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

Cows Dic said:


> lol at people saying madara wins, look at these scans, and think twice before posting crap about kingtachi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice trolling, but Hashirama admited Itachi was better shinobi. That means Itachi was better at acting as a true shinobi - hiding in shadows and some sort of sh*t. Hashirama didnt say Itachi is stronger than him. 

Check Mate.


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## Jabba (Feb 10, 2015)

There is legit a guy going around YouTube trying to prove that Itachi would stomp anybody in a 1v1, and yes, that includes Kaguya. 

I blame Kishi. friend made Itachi not only naturally talented but gave him haxx moves like Tsukyuyomi, Koto, Yata Mirror and Sword of Totsuka (aka techniques that make people think Itachi is invincible).


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## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

Jabba said:


> There is legit a guy going around YouTube trying to prove that Itachi would stomp anybody in a 1v1, and yes, that includes Kaguya.
> 
> I blame Kishi. friend made Itachi not only naturally talented but gave him haxx moves like Tsukyuyomi, Koto, Yata Mirror and Sword of Totsuka (aka techniques that make people think Itachi is invincible).



Feats wise, he is not all that invincible.


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## Jabba (Feb 10, 2015)

Try telling that to the guy who thinks Itachi could seal Madara's PS with SoT.


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## Ching Chang Chong (Feb 10, 2015)

Jabba said:


> Try telling that to the guy who thinks Itachi could seal Madara's PS with SoT.



what r his arguments??


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## RedChidori (Feb 10, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Madara outlasts.
> 
> Superior reactions (V2 Ei level as a weaker Edo variant), larger chakra pool and vastly superior Katons and Magatamas.
> 
> He _might_ take down a single Madara bunshin.



This. Madara is the superior Uchiha.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

Jabba said:


> Try telling that to the guy who thinks Itachi could seal Madara's PS with SoT.



Too bad that guy is not here. What is his nickname?


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## Jabba (Feb 10, 2015)

Ching Chang Chong said:


> what r his arguments??



From what I recall off the top of my head:


The time it takes for Madara to break out of Tsukuyomi (if he does) will be enough for Itachi to seal him with the SoT.

Izanami = insta-win.


He has Koto (he didn't really elaborate beyond this).


His Shunshin rivals Minato's.


Sword of Totsuka can seal anything it touches.


Yata Mirror can deflect pretty much everything.


Hashi said Itachi was a better shinobi than him.

Kabuto said Itachi was the "his best reanimation" or something among those lines.

That's all I can remember. Sorry, I don't remember bullshit very well.


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## Jabba (Feb 10, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Too bad that guy is not here. What is his nickname?



He goes by *alex fred*. He can be seen on pretty much every YouTube video with the name Itachi slapped on it, but *HERE'S* a link for convenience.

I only have one thing to say to you: *Don't bother debating against him.* Not to even mention his lack of grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization, he is a persistent and helpless bastard. On every Itachi video he's been on, he starts wars for no real reason; some comment chains reaching 400+ comments. He's cocky and will call you "kid" a bunch of times. He'll never admit defeat. 

You're a good debater from what I've seen, so you really shouldn't talk to him at all, let alone debate with him. You'll lose brain cells.


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## Bonly (Feb 10, 2015)

GG Madara, the king of solo does what he does best

**


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## StarWanderer (Feb 10, 2015)

Jabba said:


> He goes by *alex fred*. He can be seen on pretty much every YouTube video with the name Itachi slapped on it, but *HERE'S* a link for convenience.
> 
> I only have one thing to say to you: *Don't bother debating against him.* Not to even mention his lack of grammar, punctuation, spelling, and capitalization, he is a persistent and helpless bastard. On every Itachi video he's been on, he starts wars for no real reason; some comment chains reaching 400+ comments. He's cocky and will call you "kid" a bunch of times. He'll never admit defeat.
> 
> You're a good debater from what I've seen, so you really shouldn't talk to him at all, let alone debate with him. You'll lose brain cells.



Ok, i'll believe you.


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## Sadgoob (Feb 10, 2015)

Nah, Itachi would win under these conditions.

As a matter of fact, the only way Madara can win is by outlasting Itachi. When both Susano'o of equal size appear, the one with the legendary Totsuka is going to have the offensive advantage.

Combine that with Itachi's intellect, and I find it more unlikely that the match would drag on until he died than Itachi using Izanami, feinting, or otherwise succeeding in a gambit to pierce Madara.​


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## Veracity (Feb 10, 2015)

Sussano of equal size ...?


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## trance (Feb 10, 2015)

Madara tears Itachi in half.


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## Ersa (Feb 10, 2015)

Boils down to if Itachi can outsmart him. If he can then he might win with a sneaky Totsuka blow but if not he gets outlasted.


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## ATastyMuffin (Feb 10, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Nah, Itachi would win under these conditions.
> 
> As a matter of fact, the only way Madara can win is by outlasting Itachi. When both Susano'o of equal size appear, the one with the legendary Totsuka is going to have the offensive advantage.
> 
> Combine that with Itachi's intellect, and I find it more unlikely that the match would drag on until he died than Itachi using Izanami, feinting, or otherwise succeeding in a gambit to pierce Madara.​



I don't get how the Totsuka Blade is going to have the offensive advantage; it hasn't shown the chops to be more effective at piercing targets than standard Susanoo blades. I mean, Madara's non-legged complete Susanoo broke through Onoki and Gaara's defense combination (albeit weakened) with a single strike, Totsuka has done...?

And even if it was greater in offensive might, that'd only be relevant if it could pierce the likes of Madara's Susanoo in any meaningful way. I find that already highly unlikely; it would take Itachi God knows how many attempts to break through - and that's NOT taking into account whether or not Madara 

a) blocks the strike
b) dodges it

- the second being the likeliest end result of their close-range engagements, due to the fact that Madara's iteration is legged and therefore likely to be much more agile. So if anything, your 'combine that with Itachi's intellect'  statement is incorrect; Itachi's intellect is the only thing he has going for him.

And really, what are the odds of Itachi outsmarting Madara? The latter is just as effective in foreseeing and orchestrating future events to play out to his whims (which is, frankly, what Itachi is primarly known for in terms of being 'smart'), and I doubt a battle-hardened warrior with the greatest individual skill with the Sharingan we've seen to date in this manga is falling for clone feints, Izanami, what have you. He took on five Kage simultaneously for hours on end without a single one managing to get his 6 o'clock or catch him off-guard. And you think Itachi on his lonesome can? I'm not seeing it.

Really, this plays out like a paraplegic versus a boxer, both with excessive padding. Madara's Susanoo dances around Itachi's, dodging and blocking effortlessly, but both are unable to hurt the other. Difference is, the paraplegic tires out in a hundredth of the time it takes for the boxer to even sweat, and once he loses his form, the boxer swoops in and takes him in a single strike.

Itachi is in no position to be taking on Madara, even with the latter drastically handicapped.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 10, 2015)

Madara wins.

 He still has the EMS and Superior V4 Susanoo after all.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 11, 2015)

So this is basically MS Madara with no eyesight deterioration.

Itachi Groundhog Days him with Izanami and then uses Tsukuyomi to rape his mind.


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## Trojan (Feb 11, 2015)

Jabba said:


> From what I recall off the top of my head:
> 
> 
> The time it takes for Madara to break out of Tsukuyomi (if he does) will be enough for Itachi to seal him with the SoT.
> ...



Give this to him.
*Spoiler*: __


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 11, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> So this is basically MS Madara with no eyesight deterioration.
> 
> Itachi Groundhog Days him with Izanami and then uses Tsukuyomi to rape his mind.



 Too bad Izanami requires prep time to the point where even SM Kabuto could strike him. 

 But seriously, if Izanami was an instant win, then SM Kabuto would've been defeated at the beginning of the fight which is not the case. The moment he did try to Izanami was the moment where SM Kabuto just slashed him and Alive Madara is much faster. 

 Since he can't use Susanoo with Izanami, he gets mindfucked.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 11, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> So this is basically MS Madara with no eyesight deterioration.
> 
> Itachi Groundhog Days him with Izanami and then uses Tsukuyomi to rape his mind.



I usualy dont participate in battles i created. But to do Izanami, you have to "remember" opponents moves with your sharingan. In order to do that, your movement speed and reaction speed must be good enough to dodge/block enemies strikes, moves and remember them. 

Just for you to know. I wont participate in this thread any further... Most likely.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 11, 2015)

Since its essentially MS Madara vs MS Itachi the only way Madara could win is by outlasting him. Itachi can catch him with SOT since it's ethereal shouldn't go past Susanoo? Plus he has Tsukuyomi where if he catches Madara lets just say Madara can break out it won't be with out time so SOT seals him. Plus Itachi is ridiculously smart so theres the chances of him outsmarting Madara. He was literally reasoning on a Kage level at like age 7.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 11, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Since its essentially MS Madara vs MS Itachi the only way Madara could win is by outlasting him. Itachi can catch him with SOT since it's ethereal shouldn't go past Susanoo? Plus he has Tsukuyomi where if he catches Madara lets just say Madara can break out it won't be with out time so SOT seals him. Plus Itachi is ridiculously smart so theres the chances of him outsmarting Madara. He was literally reasoning on a Kage level at like age 7.



Ok, i'll participate. And i have several quastions:

1. Is there any proof Totsuka Blade can go through Madara's imperfect Susanoo? Zetsu's words are good enough proof it can go through anything? Because Madara's Susanoo can easily withstand Planetary Rasengan and Kurama's elbow, as i remember.

2. Dont you think Madara is too fast to be caught with SoT?

3. Dont you think Madara's intellectual feats are greater than Itachi's?


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## the box (Feb 11, 2015)

I left NF for 2 years and you guys still ride itachi harder than a porn star.

madara is physically to strong and fast for him...did you see what he did to the 1-9 tails....


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## Jabba (Feb 11, 2015)

Hussain said:


> Give this to him.
> *Spoiler*: __



Nah, he'll just laugh at me and call me a kid for not believing the manga/databook blah blah blah.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 11, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Ok, i'll participate. And i have several quastions:
> 
> 1. Is there any proof Totsuka Blade can go through Madara's imperfect Susanoo? Zetsu's words are good enough proof it can go through anything? Because Madara's Susanoo can easily withstand Planetary Rasengan and Kurama's elbow, as i remember.
> 
> ...


And i have several answers.

Im sure it was stated somewhere that the Totsuka was ethereal thus giving it ethereal properties. 
Defensive-wise yes it is very sturdy and can withstand a lot but if i am correct Rasengan isn't ethereal. Totsuka (if indeed ethereal) isn't something that can be withstood.

Madara is indeed relatively quick, however for how long can he keep dodging Totsuka? And i don't believe he has knowledge on it's sealing properties so he won't take it as serious.

I don't know reasoning at a Kage's level at age 7 is pretty unrivaled. Hashi even went as far as to say he was a better Shinobi then he was,(not to be confused with being a stronger Shinobi however)


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## Ashi (Feb 11, 2015)

Madara destroys him


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## Veracity (Feb 11, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> And i have several answers.
> 
> Im sure it was stated somewhere that the Totsuka was ethereal thus giving it ethereal properties.
> Defensive-wise yes it is very sturdy and can withstand a lot but if i am correct Rasengan isn't ethereal. Totsuka (if indeed ethereal) isn't something that can be withstood.
> ...



Do you have an speed feats for Totsuka to suggest it can tag Madara? Madara can literally inactivate full Sussano and physically dodge Totsuka all day. He can wear Itachi down effortlessly considering Itachi NEEDS Sussano while Madara does not.

And Itachi are easily comparable in terms of battle tactics while Madara has him drastically outclassed in experience and knowledge of Justu. so to say Itachis intellectual ability is even a factor here is laugable.


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## Ashi (Feb 11, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> And i have several answers.
> 
> Im sure it was stated somewhere that the Totsuka was ethereal thus giving it ethereal properties.
> Defensive-wise yes it is very sturdy and can withstand a lot but if i am correct Rasengan isn't ethereal. Totsuka (if indeed ethereal) isn't something that can be withstood.



That's if you're right and it wasn't just hype



> Madara is indeed relatively quick, however for how long can he keep dodging Totsuka? And i don't believe he has knowledge on it's sealing properties so he won't take it as serious.



No way Itachi is wearing down Madara before he goes down himself



> I don't know reasoning at a Kage's level at age 7 is pretty unrivaled. Hashi even went as far as to say he was a better Shinobi then he was,(not to be confused with being a stronger Shinobi however)



Would be nice if Madara was a moron, but he's not


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## StarWanderer (Feb 11, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> And i have several answers.
> 
> Im sure it was stated somewhere that the Totsuka was ethereal thus giving it ethereal properties.
> Defensive-wise yes it is very sturdy and can withstand a lot but if i am correct Rasengan isn't ethereal. Totsuka (if indeed ethereal) isn't something that can be withstood.
> ...



It was stated in Databook that it seals everything it pierces. But it cant pierce Susanoo as durable as Madara's. There is no proof it can. 

For a long time, according to his chakra reserves. Plus, as an Edo, he is at least a speedster on War Arc V2 Ei's level. Alive, he is even faster than when he is an Edo. Itachi doesnt have movement speed to bother Madara with SoT. He wont be able to keep up with him.

Also, in OP, Madara is serious.

The problem is - Madara has far better intellectual feats. He intellectually manhandled pretty much everyone, except Black Zetsu and Hashirama (Hashirama was intellectually more suitable for fighting, as he could predict Madara's moves), foreseen events as nobody foreseened before, and did lots of things that require high intellect level. Also, his battle experience is far above that of Itachi.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 11, 2015)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> That's if you're right and it wasn't just hype
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't care who people think wins just wanted to show both sides of the argument

And i wasn't talking about wearing down i meant if he slips up Totsuka is a relatively big sword but since its not in character for Itachi to just swing ridiculously everywhere but rather in a linear motion than yes Madara would be able to dodge.

Oh and do you think Madara would be able to get caught in tsukuyomi?


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## Ashi (Feb 11, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Don't care who people think wins just wanted to show both sides of the argument



Too bad it's pretty much a given that Madara mid diffs at best




> And i wasn't talking about wearing down i meant if he slips up Totsuka is a relatively big sword but since its not in character for Itachi to just swing ridiculously everywhere but rather in a linear motion than yes Madara would be able to dodge.



I'm more nteresteed in how Itachi willavoid getting cut down by Madara's swords



> Oh and do you think Madara would be able to get caught in tsukuyomi?



Asuming that unlikely scenario comes to pass

Do you think Madara would be able to shatter the illusions?


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## LostSelf (Feb 11, 2015)

Jabba said:


> He goes by *alex fred*. He can be seen on pretty much every YouTube video with the name Itachi slapped on it, but *HERE'S* a link for convenience.



I already posted on that video saying Madara is the superior Uchiha. Not looking for a serious debate, just curious to what extent this guy can get and to laugh a bit  and i hope i am breaking no rules.

OT: Madara wins this. The guy is Itachi in Super Saiyan even without PS with the only exception of inteligence.

Probably outlasting.


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## sanninme rikudo (Feb 11, 2015)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Too bad it's pretty much a given that Madara mid diffs at best
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea but unfortunately for you it's still an opinion Chump, so don't get to carried away.

Yata Mirror

Why would you deem it unlikely i'd say Itachi has a shot a catching him. Everyone relies on eyesight most. Madara is no exception.

Assuming Madara is able to break out, it won't be with out time, and during this duration he's at Itachi's mercy
however judging from the convo we had i can see your not willing to take in both arguments so carry on


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## Nikushimi (Feb 11, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Too bad Izanami requires prep time to the point where even SM Kabuto could strike him.
> 
> But seriously, if Izanami was an instant win, then SM Kabuto would've been defeated at the beginning of the fight which is not the case. The moment he did try to Izanami was the moment where SM Kabuto just slashed him and Alive Madara is much faster.
> 
> Since he can't use Susanoo with Izanami, he gets mindfucked.



Kabuto used his skin shedding ability to distract Itachi and crossed the battlefield hidden inside of his extended snake appendage, in order to land that strike.

Last I checked, Madara has neither of those things.



StarWanderer said:


> I usualy dont participate in battles i created. But to do Izanami, you have to "remember" opponents moves with your sharingan. In order to do that, your movement speed and reaction speed must be good enough to dodge/block enemies strikes, moves and remember them.
> 
> Just for you to know. I wont participate in this thread any further... Most likely.



There is no significant difference between Madara's speed and reaction time...and Itachi's. Certainly, at least, there is not enough of a difference to show it clearly.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 11, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Kabuto used his skin shedding ability to distract Itachi and crossed the battlefield hidden inside of his extended snake appendage, in order to land that strike.
> 
> Last I checked, Madara has neither of those things.



*HERE'S*

 Really? Protected by Amaterasu yet still afraid to use Izanami? 

 Even then, it's made clear afterwards that the only reason he got up Izanami was because of Sasuke's help as Izanami wasn't released until after SM Kabuto clashed with Sasuke for a bit.

 Itachi doesn't have help here, so how is he going to Izanami GG here?





> There is no significant difference between Madara's speed and reaction time...and Itachi's. Certainly, at least, there is not enough of a difference to show it clearly.



 Because Itachi has reaction feats that can read Weightless Ei's speed as well as feats that can involve avoiding Tobirama's surprise Hiraishin while being blind?


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## Veracity (Feb 12, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Kabuto used his skin shedding ability to distract Itachi and crossed the battlefield hidden inside of his extended snake appendage, in order to land that strike.
> 
> Last I checked, Madara has neither of those things.
> 
> ...



  

Itachis speed and reactions are far lower them Madara's. We'll all sit here and wait for you to post a speed feat of Itachis that supersedes essentially blizting Sage Naruto( who's reactions are superior to MS Itachis based on feats). And for an individual to blitz an opponent they must have reactions at that level. Then there's the fact that Madara reacts to Hashirama all the damn time and reacts to a lightened Raikage.


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## StarWanderer (Feb 12, 2015)

> There is no significant difference between Madara's speed and reaction time...and Itachi's. Certainly, at least, there is not enough of a difference to show it clearly.



I could assume their reaction speed is on the same level because Itachi, although with Sharingans precognition, reacted to Kirin, which is very impressive, but Madara's movement speed is much higher. Itachi cant keep up with a speedster who not only himself can block V2 Ei's punch point blank, but who's *mokuton clones* could tag V2 Ei. 

You may say that "oh Edo Itachi fought KCM Naruto on par!". Well, yes. When lots of KCM Naruto clones were active, thus the original was weaker than usual. It wasnt the same KCM Naruto who fought Raikage.

Madara is an absolute beast in movement speed department.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 14, 2015)

Wow, I'm certain this scan will end the Totsuka Blade hype that Itachi fanboys have.

 perceived

 Calls Totsuka blade a small cut. 

 Doesn't even realize it's the Totsuka blade until after it starts sealing him away. 

 Conclusion: Totsuka blade is piss weak.


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