# Wolverine (prime) vs. Vegita



## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 20, 2011)

For those of you who do not know, "prime" means that we only use Wolverine's best feats. How does this go?

No flight or blowing up the earth.


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## Enclave (Apr 20, 2011)

Using Wolverines absolute best feats he's literally impossible to kill.  He'll thusly win via waiting for Vegeta to die of old age.


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 20, 2011)

Even if impossible to kill, Vegeta can throw him into orbit.


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## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 20, 2011)

^ 
Wolverine was able to fight Gladiator for 3 days and win, beat Loki, and can hurt Thanos with his claws. Things won’t be as easy as you seem to think.


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## Sabotage (Apr 20, 2011)

Tenchi Muyo said:


> ^
> Wolverine was able to fight Gladiator for 3 days and win, beat Loki, and can hurt Thanos with his claws. Things won’t be as easy as you seem to think.



If Wolverine can take on these guys, shouldn't the winner be pretty obvious?


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Apr 20, 2011)

Doesn't Wolverine have a massive jobber aura though?


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## blueblip (Apr 20, 2011)

Tenchi Muyo said:


> ^
> Wolverine was able to fight Gladiator for 3 days and win, beat Loki, and can hurt Thanos _*who was amped by the power gem*_ with his claws. Things won?t be as easy as you seem to think.


Fixed for ya.

Yes, Jobberine shit stomps on herald level characters.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 20, 2011)

Didn't ge fused with the mkarrn ( spelling is likely wrong) crystal and become universal?


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## Bioness (Apr 20, 2011)

^ Yes he did, even if only temporary

So Wolverine would win this if uses his best feats , many Marvel and DC characters get those occasional massive power up.


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## Archangel Michael (Apr 20, 2011)

vegita  I have no idea who that is.If your talking about vegeta then he kill wolverine prime. wait wolverine became universal if he did he stomp vegeta.


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## Bioness (Apr 20, 2011)

Maybe he meant Vegeta? or maybe Vegito


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## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 20, 2011)

> If Wolverine can take on these guys, shouldn't the winner be pretty obvious?


It should be, but not to everyone. 



> Didn't ge fused with the mkarrn ( spelling is likely wrong) crystal and become universal?


Crap, I did not think about that.



> Maybe he meant Vegeta? or maybe Vegito


Sorry, I meant Vegito.


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## Bioness (Apr 20, 2011)

Vegito despite being the strongest canon Dragonball character still gets killed...eventually


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## Soledad Eterna (Apr 20, 2011)

Could he tank Big Bang Kamehamehas repeatedly?


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## Juub (Apr 20, 2011)

Maybe. Doesn't matter because Vegeto doesn't do that attack.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 20, 2011)

Crystal of Ultimate Vision Wolvy FTW

So DEM cheap


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## Dante10 (Apr 20, 2011)

Soledad Eterna said:


> Could he tank Big Bang Kamehamehas repeatedly?



Yes with ease most likely.


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## SSJ4wally (Apr 20, 2011)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Even if impossible to kill, Vegeta can throw him into orbit.



what he said vegeta's stomps complete and total rape if you ask me


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## Sabotage (Apr 20, 2011)

SSJ4wally said:


> what he said vegeta's stomps complete and total rape if you ask me



Please tell me how Vegeta is going to beat a universal level Wolverine, since we are using Wolverine at his strongest?


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 20, 2011)

Of course there's a cosmic Wolverine. Why didn't I see that one coming?


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## Orochibuto (Apr 20, 2011)

Cosmic as in "I can think you out of existence"?


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## Havoc (Apr 20, 2011)

When was this?

And why haven't any Wolverine fanboys brought this up before?  

Somethings fishy here.


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## FireEel (Apr 20, 2011)

Is- is he smoking a cigarette while being cosmic?


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 20, 2011)

Death Clutch said:


> Vegeta easily.



...and what is he supposed to to a Wolverine that became one with the Universe?


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## Dante10 (Apr 20, 2011)

FireEel said:


> Is- is he smoking a cigarette while being cosmic?


Cosmic smoke break?


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## Sabotage (Apr 20, 2011)

Death Clutch said:


> Vegeta easily.



Do you have an actual argument, or are you just going to post "HURR DURR VEGETA SOLOS"?


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 20, 2011)

Probably didn't even read the OP. Most likely fail trolling.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

roguezan said:


> Do you have an actual argument, or are you just going to post "HURR DURR VEGETA SOLOS"?


 He'd call anime Majin Buu and tell him to wipe out the universe with his weird-ass technique.


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## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 21, 2011)

^ Buu was killed by all of the earth's energy alone. Wolverine's strongest form would be able to easily take Buu out.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Tenchi Muyo said:


> ^ Buu was killed by all of the earth's energy alone. Wolverine's strongest form would be able to easily take Buu out.


 First of all it wasn't Earth's energy alone. Second, you make it sound like Gohan wasn't there and that there weren't planet busters such as Android 17 around to give energy. Third it doesn't really matter, Buu isn't in that fight. Just brought him up to give Vegeto something.


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## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 21, 2011)

Juub said:


> First of all it wasn't Earth's energy alone. Second, you make it sound like Gohan wasn't there and that there weren't planet busters such as Android 17 around to give energy. Third it doesn't really matter, Buu isn't in that fight. Just brought him up to give Vegeto something.



When I say all of Earth's energy, I am including the people who live on Earth. Even if Gohan, 17, and everyone else were at full power (which they were not, and no I am not saying that you made the claim) it still would not matter. It would not come close to matching Wolverine's power when at his strongest point. 

Don't bring someone up and get an attitude when the said person ends up meaningless in the end.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 21, 2011)

Ignoring any cosmic stuff, its either a stalemate or a vegeta win.


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## nejix321 (Apr 21, 2011)

His character profile on Outskirts Battle Dome says he has regenerated from Planet busting attack, but has died from less when the plot desires.

It seems to me that this goes to Wolverine. Since with his best feats the plot will certainly be on his side.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Tenchi Muyo said:


> When I say all of Earth's energy, I am including the people who live on Earth. Even if Gohan, 17, and everyone else were at full power (which they were not, and no I am not saying that you made the claim) it still would not matter. It would not come close to matching Wolverine's power when at his strongest point.
> 
> Don't bring someone up and get an attitude when the said person ends up meaningless in the end.



Doesn't matter if they were at full power or not. Vegeta said they'd drain their Ki dry. It was a critical situation and they needed everyone to contribute as much as possible. Thinking Gohan only gave a fraction of his power when his dad desperately needed him is silly. Considering the Earth has the sun, Kaio stated that a Genki-Dama gathered in the vicinity of the Earth would be ridiculously powerful because the sun could be your ally. You must include the energy of every living beings(plants, animals) and the sun.

I was kinda joking when I said he'd bring Majin Buu. They're not buddies and I doubt Majin Buu would accept. Didn't expect anyone to take it seriously. My apologies if you feel I've been disrespectful, it wasn't my intention.


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## Goshinki (Apr 21, 2011)

Final flash....What you said no blowing up the earth. Last I checked earth was still there after that huge blast.

EDIT: After seeing the above scan I change my mind....gosh darnit Nappa.


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## Tenchi Muyo (Apr 21, 2011)

> Ignoring any cosmic stuff, its either a stalemate or a vegeta win.


Not if Wolverine just cuts his head off. Even without the extreme power up, he is able to dodge attacks from people who are faster than light. He is also a tank since he was able to fight 3 days with a man who can easily fly through stars. Beating Loki is also a big feat.




> *Doesn't matter if they were at full power or not*. Vegeta said they'd drain their Ki dry. It was a critical situation and they needed everyone to contribute as much as possible. Thinking Gohan only gave a fraction of his power when his dad desperately needed him is silly. Considering the Earth has the sun, Kaio stated that a Genki-Dama gathered in the vicinity of the Earth would be ridiculously powerful because the sun could be your ally. You must include the energy of every living beings(plants, animals) and the sun


I already said that. I never said that Gohan would give less than his full power so what is your point? I hope you are not saying that all of the sun's energy was used. If you are talking about the energy that the sun emits around the earth and on it, that is different, and isn't close to the amount of energy the sun fully has. 



> I was kinda joking when I said he'd bring Majin Buu. They're not buddies and I doubt Majin Buu would accept. Didn't expect anyone to take it seriously. My apologies if you feel I've been disrespectful, it wasn't my intention


Honestly it was just the claim of Buu being able to destroy the Universe that erked me. I tend to get bothered by outlandish comments like that, so it was nothing personal. I also apologies if I came off the wrong way.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

> I already said that. I never said that Gohan would give less than his full power so what is your point? I hope you are not saying that all of the sun's energy was used. If you are talking about the energy that the sun emits around the earth and on it, that is different, and isn't close to the amount of energy the sun fully has.


 I know you said that but I'm kind of wondering why. It doesn't matter if they were at full power or not, they'd give most of their power regardless. I'm not saying all the energy of the sun was used, if it were the case, there'd be no more sun. I'm simply saying that the power of multiple casual planet busters+the energy of the whole planet+the energy of the sun is far more significant than the energy of a bunch of weak earthlings. Gohan alone has probably more power than the whole Earth.



> Honestly it was just the claim of Buu being able to destroy the Universe that erked me. I tend to get bothered by outlandish comments like that, so it was nothing personal. I also apologies if I came off the wrong way.


 It's all good, no worries. Also no need to be bothered by that claim. It was confirmed Buu in the anime could. The means through which he'd do it are unusual but the result is what matters I guess.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 21, 2011)

Tenchi Muyo said:


> Not if Wolverine just cuts his head off. Even without the extreme power up, he is able to dodge attacks from people who are faster than light. He is also a tank since he was able to fight 3 days with a man who can easily fly through stars. Beating Loki is also a big feat.


 dodging won't do him any good if they explosion takes up a whole continent all Vegeta has to do is stun him with a generic Ki blast and Galick gun him off the planet.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> dodging won't do him any good if they explosion takes up a whole continent all Vegeta has to do is stun him with a generic Ki blast and Galick gun him off the planet.



It's Vegeto I believe.

Fun fact. Officially the power of Vegeto is Goku's battle power multiplied by Vegeta's battle power.

If we use SSJ Goku as a measuring stick(the highest official PL). Vegeto would have a power of at least 150,000,000(SSJ Goku's official battle power)^2. That gives us 2.25x10^16 or 22,500,000,000,000,000. Pretty damn powerful isn't it? No idea how powerful it is honestly.


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

The last official power level was Trunks pl of 5 which was read using Frieza's scouter.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> The last official power level was Trunks pl of 5 which was read using Frieza's scouter.


Facepalm! Of course. You got me there. Wait...when did I talk about a last official BP? I just said ''highest official''.


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't recall the manga ever indicating Goku's pl being 150,000,000.  Can you post a scan of that instance?


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> I don't recall the manga ever indicating Goku's pl being 150,000,000.  Can you post a scan of that instance?


 Wasn't in the manga either. It was in the Daizenshuu.


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

Lol Daizenshuu.  Manga only please.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> Lol Daizenshuu.  Manga only please.


What's so laughable? There are some inaccuracies but I don't see a reason to ignore the few stated PL's. You also perfectly know it wasn't mentioned in the manga so why asking?


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

Because Daizenshuu is even more inaccurate than the freakin' Naruto databooks and even those are complete shit.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> Because Daizenshuu is even more inaccurate than the freakin' Naruto databooks and even those are complete shit.


 I agree that there are inaccuracies here and there but it's a good source for several things that were either omitted or barely explained. Still, just because there are mistakes doesn't mean you should write off the whole thing. Ignore the mistakes that are blatantly contradicted by the manga. It's not perfect but quite reliable. The SEG has also these BP and it's a fine source in my opinion.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 21, 2011)

It was said to be " like" multiplication.  That's really it though.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Shoddragon said:


> It was said to be " like" multiplication.  That's really it though.





> On p.63 it describes the Potara fusion as being closer to multiplication rather than simple addition in the way it increases power. Supposedly, Vegetto's battle power is equivalent to Goku's battle power multiplied by Vegeta's. Also according to the introduction of the Super Exciting Guide's training section, all the information in it is based on data that was supervised by Toriyama, though we have no idea how extensive this supervision was.



Credit to Herms for the information. Seems like it's just a multiplication. Why complicate things more than they already are? Just multiply their powers and you should have a good idea of how strong Vegeto is.


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## Shoddragon (Apr 21, 2011)

Except Elder kaioshin is the one who states this and he says that's it's closer to multiplication. Which could mean anything from goku+vegetaX1.2 to goku X vegeta.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Apr 21, 2011)

I doubt it's one power level multiplied by the other. If it was, Kibitokai would probably be the second strongest character in the series.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Shoddragon said:


> Except Elder kaioshin is the one who states this and he says that's it's closer to multiplication. Which could mean anything from goku+vegetaX1.2 to goku X vegeta.


 Elder Kaioshin isn't the one who states this. He just said they'd be absurdly powerful with fusion and that they wouldn't even need SSJ to beat Majin Buu. That info is taken from the SEG and in a scan, it shows Vegeto and below him, it's written ''Goku x Vegeta= Vegeto''. While I don't think all potara fusions would have the same multiplier, I do believe Vegeto is just Goku x Vegeta.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> I doubt it's one power level multiplied by the other. If it was, Kibitokai would probably be the second strongest character in the series.


We don't know the power of Kibito or Kaioshin so that's kind of a moot point. Even then, it's said that the potara fusion is closer to a multiplier than an addition. That could very well mean anything but in Vegeto's case, it's simply Goku x Vegeta. In Kibitoshin's case it could be (Kibito+Kaioshin) x 10. That would still be a multiplication more than an addition but nothing close to Vegeto. Considering the affinity the fusees have to each other also matters, it leads me to believe not all fusions would be just ''X x Y=Z''.


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## Glued (Apr 21, 2011)

Wolverine once had a drop of blood fall on the M'kraan crystal. Regenerated completely from said drop of blood. Unraveled Horde down to his very DNA strands. Became one with the Universe.

Dumbest. Story. Ever.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Ben Grimm said:


> Wolverine once had a drop of blood fall on the M'kraan crystal. Regenerated completely from said drop of blood. Unraveled Horde down to his very DNA strands. Became one with the Universe.
> 
> Dumbest. Story. Ever.


 I think it's pretty awesome. Then again, it might be because Wolverine is one of the few superheros I like.


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## Havoc (Apr 21, 2011)

You have horrible taste.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Wolverine is great. Quit hating.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 21, 2011)

Havoc said:


> When was this?
> 
> And why haven't any Wolverine fanboys brought this up before?
> 
> Somethings fishy here.



Because it was a one - time thing that is rarely relevant in a debate? It's only allowed here because this is Wolverine at the strongest he's ever been.



Juub said:


> It's all good, no worries. Also no need to be bothered by that claim. It was confirmed Buu in the anime could. The means through which he'd do it are unusual but the result is what matters I guess.



Nothing was "confirmed". All we saw in said _non-canon filler_ episode was Buu screaming and making the sky turn green with some weird lightning, and then Dende made that ridiculous hyperbole statement (how the hell would he know something like that, anyway?)

It's bullshit.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> I doubt it's one power level multiplied by the other. If it was, Kibitokai would probably be the second strongest character in the series.



And remember Goku was worried he would actually get weaker by fusing with Mr. Satan. Kind of blows that whole thing out of the water. Not that power levels ever meant shit in the first place.

Either way no one in the DBU is touching cosmic Wolvy (as retarded as the entire idea was)


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Nothing was "confirmed". All we saw in said _non-canon filler_ episode was Buu screaming and making the sky turn green with some weird lightning, and then Dende made that ridiculous hyperbole statement (how the hell would he know something like that, anyway?)



That's what the attack guide says about Outside Space:



> *Outside Space
> Category: ability
> People: Majin Buu (evil)
> Special Characteristics: Overwhelmed by Vegetto, Buu generated this after going into a frenzy. Distortions appeared in the space surrounding Buu. It seems that this power was also what enabled Buu to escape from the Room of Spirit and Time. This space would cover the living world and wipe out the universe.



You also musn't forget that the DBZ universe only has 4 galaxies and isn't continuously expanding like ours. Not to mention that Dende being the new guardian of Earth has some knowledge of the universe and the Dragon Balls. It's not canon anyway, I really see no reason not to believe it. 





> And remember Goku was worried he would actually get weaker by fusing with Mr. Satan. Kind of blows that whole thing out of the water. Not that power levels ever meant shit in the first place.


 I suppose Goku knew exactly how the mechanics of the potaras worked? He was about to fuse with Satan either way.


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

Juub said:


> I agree that there are inaccuracies here and there but it's a good source for several things that were either omitted or barely explained. Still, just because there are mistakes doesn't mean you should write off the whole thing. Ignore the mistakes that are blatantly contradicted by the manga. It's not perfect but quite reliable. The SEG has also these BP and it's a fine source in my opinion.



Something that's rife with inaccuracies is the very definition of unreliable.  So no, it's not reliable, not at all.


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 21, 2011)

Ignoring the BS cosmic wolverine one time "powerup" that has no place in a prime Wolverine debate with only _"his"_ best feats available to him and not outside sources amping him to ridiculous levels.

Yeah.......Vegito takes this easily


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## Havoc (Apr 21, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Because it was a one - time thing that is rarely relevant in a debate? It's only allowed here because this is Wolverine at the strongest he's ever been.


When was the last time you've posted in a Wolverine thread at KMC?


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> Something that's rife with inaccuracies is the very definition of unreliable.  So no, it's not reliable, not at all.



98% of the information is accurate but because of a few inaccuracies the whole thing is unreliable?


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## Endless Mike (Apr 21, 2011)

Juub said:


> That's what the attack guide says about Outside Space:



Quoting information about a non-canon guide to a non-canon filler? 

NOTHING was shown. It doesn't count for shit.



> You also musn't forget that the DBZ universe only has 4 galaxies and isn't continuously expanding like ours. Not to mention that Dende being the new guardian of Earth has some knowledge of the universe and the Dragon Balls. It's not canon anyway, I really see no reason not to believe it.



I do - nothing was fucking happening.



> I suppose Goku knew exactly how the mechanics of the potaras worked? He was about to fuse with Satan either way.



He said the same thing about Dende



Havoc said:


> When was the last time you've posted in a Wolverine thread at KMC?



Why does that matter?


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Quoting information about a non-canon guide to a non-canon filler?


 It's a quote from the anime guide which covers things that happened in the anime. Filler isn't canon but the guide still has merit over the non-canon events that happened in the anime The information is official. Dende said Buu would have wiped out the universe and the official guide said Buu would have. I know it's filler too. Hell, Buu isn't even in this match, I said I brought it up to give something to Vegeto and I wasn't being really serious.



> NOTHING was shown. It doesn't count for shit.


 Do you have any idea of what it takes to destroy the DB universe? I don't think you do. Dende knows of the guy who watch over this universe, he's the guardian of the Earth and he knows of the different planes of that said universe. Why do you deem it as hyperbole for no reason? An hyperbole is something like ''I'm gonna rip your head off''. It's a figure of speech which is an exaggeration. Dende panicking at Buu about to destroy the universe isn't a figure of speech. It wasn't shown because Vegeto stopped him. You wanted him to wipe out the universe to convince you?




> He said the same thing about Dende


 Your point being? Goku has no idea about the mechanics of the potaras so his opinion doesn't mean anything. Oh and no he didn't say the same thing he just said it'd be impossible. That's likely because of Dende's status rather than Goku risking getting weaker.

Also, why are you being so defensive? It's just a discussion about an anime. You seem to take things way too seriously friend.


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## Havoc (Apr 21, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Why does that matter?


Fanboys...retarded...

Need I go on?


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## Naruto (Apr 21, 2011)

So the M'Kraan crystal incident is what we're considering _Wolverine prime_?


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## Enclave (Apr 21, 2011)

Juub said:


> 98% of the information is accurate but because of a few inaccuracies the whole thing is unreliable?



98%?  I'd like to see your source for that percentage.


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## Juub (Apr 21, 2011)

Enclave said:


> 98%?  I'd like to see your source for that percentage.


 You perfectly know what I mean and you choose to play the ignorant card. Just for fun, can you tell me several inaccuracies coming from the Daizenshuu?


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## Sabotage (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> You perfectly know what I mean and you choose to play the ignorant card. Just for fun, can you tell me several inaccuracies coming from the Daizenshuu?



Why are you derailing this thread? We are using Wolverine at his strongest, which is when he regenerated from an M'Kraan crystal and was basically an omnipotent. Vegetto loses.

Now stop posting and piss off.


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

roguezan said:


> Why are you derailing this thread? We are using Wolverine at his strongest, which is when he regenerated from an M'Kraan crystal and was basically an omnipotent. Vegetto loses.
> 
> Now stop posting and piss off.


 Threads are bound to derail here and there. Now get off my back troll. Still mad about me owning you in that thread? Lucky break the mod closed it. I was about to stampede you.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> It's a quote from the anime guide which covers things that happened in the anime.



Which is non-canon....



> Filler isn't canon but the guide still has merit over the non-canon events that happened in the anime The information is official. Dende said Buu would have wiped out the universe and the official guide said Buu would have. I know it's filler too. Hell, Buu isn't even in this match, I said I brought it up to give something to Vegeto and I wasn't being really serious.



It means nothing if the feats don't match up. Like the Naruto databook saying Itachi and Haku are lightspeed.



> Do you have any idea of what it takes to destroy the DB universe? I don't think you do. Dende knows of the guy who watch over this universe, he's the guardian of the Earth and he knows of the different planes of that said universe. Why do you deem it as hyperbole for no reason? An hyperbole is something like ''I'm gonna rip your head off''. It's a figure of speech which is an exaggeration. Dende panicking at Buu about to destroy the universe isn't a figure of speech. It wasn't shown because Vegeto stopped him. You wanted him to wipe out the universe to convince you?



So if you think it only takes a tiny bit of energy to destroy the DBU then it's not exactly that useful in a match against another series, is it? 



> Your point being? Goku has no idea about the mechanics of the potaras so his opinion doesn't mean anything. Oh and no he didn't say the same thing he just said it'd be impossible. That's likely because of Dende's status rather than Goku risking getting weaker.
> 
> Also, why are you being so defensive? It's just a discussion about an anime. You seem to take things way too seriously friend.



Because you're wanking and it's my job to smack down wankers. The Kaioshins didn't even use the same measuring scale as Frieza did.


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## Sabotage (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> Threads are bound to derail here and there. Now get off my back troll. Still mad about me owning you in that thread? Lucky break the mod closed it. I was about to stampede you.





All of your arguments were baseless assumptions and hyperboles. Some owning you did, you troglodyte.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 22, 2011)

Anybody who Buu would need to use that dimension thing on anyway would be strong enough to break through it and stop him, so it useless


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## Havoc (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> it's my job to smack down wankers.


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Which is non-canon....


 I already mentioned it was in the anime. I know it's filler and I stated I wasn't being serious about this.



> It means nothing if the feats don't match up. Like the Naruto databook saying Itachi and Haku are lightspeed.


 All of that is contradicted. Majin Buu being able to wipe out the universe with his weird technique was never contradicted or anything unbelievable. The official databook of the anime supports it and Dende's claim support it.




> So if you think it only takes a tiny bit of energy to destroy the DBU then it's not exactly that useful in a match against another series, is it?


 Nah it takes a lot of energy to destroy 4 galaxies and everything in between. And as I've said before, I only brought him up because it seems there was nothing. I know he's filler and I know he isn't in this fight.





> Because you're wanking and it's my job to smack down wankers. The Kaioshins didn't even use the same measuring scale as Frieza did.


 You ain't smacking down anybody, that's the problem. I'm also not wanking anything. Majin Buu was about to wipe out the universe and God(Dende) said that and the guide agreed with that. Just because the databooks of Naruto are flawed doesn't mean those about the DBZ anime are. What are you talking about with your measuring stick? You lost me there.

Really any reason to believe Dende's claim was hyperbole? I don't think you do. If you have legitimate reasons feel free to share them.



roguezan said:


> All of your arguments were baseless assumptions and hyperboles. Some owning you did, you troglodyte.


 Your whole argument was flawed reasoning and it's obvious your knowledge of Dragon Ball Z is/was limited.


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## Sabotage (Apr 22, 2011)

And now the moron is using anime as evidence.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> I already mentioned it was in the anime. I know it's filler and I stated I wasn't being serious about this.



Then why are you still arguing about it?



> All of that is contradicted. Majin Buu being able to wipe out the universe with his weird technique was never contradicted or anything unbelievable. The official databook of the anime supports it and Dende's claim support it.



It's not "contradicted" as it technically was never directly disproved. There is something called precedent here, even taking anime fillers there is nothing in the series that shows precedent for anything that powerful. Get over it.



> Nah it takes a lot of energy to destroy 4 galaxies and everything in between. And as I've said before, I only brought him up because it seems there was nothing. I know he's filler and I know he isn't in this fight.



So in other words, you just went back on your previous argument of "you don't know how much it takes".



> You ain't smacking down anybody, that's the problem. I'm also not wanking anything. Majin Buu was about to wipe out the universe and God(Dende) said that and the guide agreed with that. Just because the databooks of Naruto are flawed doesn't mean those about the DBZ anime are. What are you talking about with your measuring stick? You lost me there.



There was nothing shown, all it did was cause the sky to turn green and a bit of lightning to strike. There is no precedent for anything anywhere near that level. Get over it.


----------



## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Then why are you still arguing about it?


 Because you replied to my post and I felt I had to reply to your posts. If you want us to drop it, I'm fine with it.





> It's not "contradicted" as it technically was never directly disproved. There is something called precedent here, even taking anime fillers there is nothing in the series that shows precedent for anything that powerful. Get over it.


 Pretty sure Naruto characters' speed were proved to be much slower than light countless times. I'm not too familiar with the series but I know for fact they're not close to the speed of light. I disagree with you on your second point. Dende being ''god'' and knowing about the different planes of the universe and about its guardians is a reliable source to tell what would be enough to wipe it out. There is also the fact the official guide supports his claim. No reason to believe it was hyperbole.




> So in other words, you just went back on your previous argument of "you don't know how much it takes".


 I'm not taking back anything. You said ''so it only takes a tiny bit of energy to destroy the DBU''. I'm saying it doesn't take just a tiny bit of energy to wipe out 4 galaxies along with everything in between.




> There was nothing shown, all it did was cause the sky to turn green and a bit of lightning to strike. There is no precedent for anything anywhere near that level. Get over it.


 Buu was stopped. I'd agree with you if it was just a claim made by someone unreliable but when it's made by Dende and supported I see no reason to view this as hyperbole. I just think we have entirely different views when it comes down to statements and their reliability.


----------



## Enclave (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> You perfectly know what I mean and you choose to play the ignorant card. Just for fun, can you tell me several inaccuracies coming from the Daizenshuu?



Difference between you and me?  I don't care enough to go and prove how worthless Daizenshuu is and fully admit that.  Though I will say that it's power levels alone should be proof enough.  Daizenshuu is as canon as the anime which is to say not the least bit canon.


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Enclave said:


> Difference between you and me?  I don't care enough to go and prove how worthless Daizenshuu is and fully admit that.  Though I will say that it's power levels alone should be proof enough.  Daizenshuu is as canon as the anime which is to say not the least bit canon.


 It's okay with me. I've just met many people who would throw it out the window because of its inaccuracies but they could in fact find only 1 or 2 errors and I was wondering if you were one of those persons. I consider all its information canon except of course when the manga says otherwise.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> Because you replied to my post and I felt I had to reply to your posts. If you want us to drop it, I'm fine with it.



That's weird and pointless.



> Pretty sure Naruto characters' speed were proved to be much slower than light countless times. I'm not too familiar with the series but I know for fact they're not close to the speed of light. I disagree with you on your second point. Dende being ''god'' and knowing about the different planes of the universe and about its guardians is a reliable source to tell what would be enough to wipe it out. There is also the fact the official guide supports his claim. No reason to believe it was hyperbole.



Itachi's water bullet technique IIRC was never even shown, and that was claimed to be lightspeed. And the god of earth isn't a very important position, they didn't know much important shit at all. It's hyperbole because there is no precedent and insufficient evidence to establish it. Get over it.



> I'm not taking back anything. You said ''so it only takes a tiny bit of energy to destroy the DBU''. I'm saying it doesn't take just a tiny bit of energy to wipe out 4 galaxies along with everything in between.



But before that you said I couldn't say it was hyperbole because I didn't know how much it would take, implying it would take a lot less than I was thinking.



> Buu was stopped. I'd agree with you if it was just a claim made by someone unreliable but when it's made by Dende and supported I see no reason to view this as hyperbole. I just think we have entirely different views when it comes down to statements and their reliability.



Do you understand what "precedent" means?

If someone in DBZ claims they can destroy the earth, sure, that's believable considering what has been shown in the series.

If someone in Naruto claims they can destroy the Earth no one is going to take that bullshit seriously no matter what any databooks or characters say.


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> That's weird and pointless.


 I suppose debating over fictional characters battles isn't pointless? You replied to my posts. The least I could do was giving you a proper reply. You could have just ignored me and I would have done the same.





> Itachi's water bullet technique IIRC was never even shown, and that was claimed to be lightspeed. And the god of earth isn't a very important position, they didn't know much important shit at all. It's hyperbole because there is no precedent and insufficient evidence to establish it. Get over it.


 An hyperbole is a figure of speech isn't it? If I'm totally wrong on something but firmly believe it, you can't call it an hyperbole. You say I'm wrong. In your opinion Dende was wrong. You can't claim he was making an hyperbole considering nothings points to him making a figure of speech. His importance hardly matters, his knowledge does. He knew they were on the Kaioshinkai and he knew these guys were the Kaioshins. The Kaioshins are the guardians of the universe and Dende knew they were on a different plane. He knows his shit so I'll trust his judgment when he feels something has the force to wipe out the whole place. Especially given the fact he sees universal threats on a daily basis.





> But before that you said I couldn't say it was hyperbole because I didn't know how much it would take, implying it would take a lot less than I was thinking.


 Misunderstanding on my part. My bad.





> Do you understand what "precedent" means?
> 
> If someone in DBZ claims they can destroy the earth, sure, that's believable considering what has been shown in the series.
> 
> If someone in Naruto claims they can destroy the Earth no one is going to take that bullshit seriously no matter what any databooks or characters say.


 As I stated before, I believe Buu being able to wipe out the universe under these conditions is believable. I think statements are often used in order to communicate information to the reader through indirect means. Given the fact Dende is a reliable source and that official guides support his statement, I believe his claim to be true.

As for your second point I agree entirely. It's a bit different in DBZ's case, I could elaborate as to why but it's up to you to decide if you're interested in what I have to say or not. My guess is no so I guess we'll just leave it at that. Last thing, I do believe universe busting in that context was believable.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> I suppose debating over fictional characters battles isn't pointless? You replied to my posts. The least I could do was giving you a proper reply. You could have just ignored me and I would have done the same.



Your reply was flawed, and you admitted it was flawed, yet you are still arguing. The proper thing to do would be to concede now.



> An hyperbole is a figure of speech isn't it? If I'm totally wrong on something but firmly believe it, you can't call it an hyperbole.



Not in the context of analyzing a fictional story 



> You say I'm wrong. In your opinion Dende was wrong. You can't claim he was making an hyperbole considering nothings points to him making a figure of speech. His importance hardly matters, his knowledge does. He knew they were on the Kaioshinkai and he knew these guys were the Kaioshins. The Kaioshins are the guardians of the universe and Dende knew they were on a different plane. He knows his shit so I'll trust his judgment when he feels something has the force to wipe out the whole place. Especially given the fact he sees universal threats on a daily basis.



Um, no. No he doesn't. Stop making shit up.



> As I stated before, I believe Buu being able to wipe out the universe under these conditions is believable.



Then you're an idiot.



> I think statements are often used in order to communicate information to the reader through indirect means.



Violates SoD.



> Given the fact Dende is a reliable source and that official guides support his statement, I believe his claim to be true.
> 
> As for your second point I agree entirely. It's a bit different in DBZ's case, I could elaborate as to why but it's up to you to decide if you're interested in what I have to say or not. My guess is no so I guess we'll just leave it at that. Last thing, I do believe universe busting in that context was believable.



Special pleading fallacy.


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Your reply was flawed, and you admitted it was flawed, yet you are still arguing. The proper thing to do would be to concede now.


 What should I concede? I said I wasn't serious from the beginning. If not begin serious is a flawed reply then I guess I concede this. Even if I did that a while ago.




> Not in the context of analyzing a fictional story


 Since when was that? Hyperboles aren't meant to be taking literally. Dende's claim was meant to be taken literally, even if untrue. What makes it an hyperbole if it is a serious but wrong statement?



> Um, no. No he doesn't. Stop making shit up.


 Guess the hyperbole flew right over your head? I'm not saying everybody could just wipe out the universe. I'm saying these enemies were universal threats. Majin Buu was considered a threat to the universe because he would go on and terrorize planets until there'd be nobody left and in a universe with 4 galaxies he'd do that pretty quickly.




> Then you're an idiot.


 According to who? You. I don't really care honestly.





> Special pleading fallacy.


 It seems you're fed up with that discussion and I don't want to write a long paragraph only to have you telling me you won't bother reading it because you don't care. That's why I'm saying this. If you want to read what I gotta say, I'll be happy to oblige. If you don't, why would I waste my time?


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> What should I concede? I said I wasn't serious from the beginning. If not begin serious is a flawed reply then I guess I concede this. Even if I did that a while ago.



Your points are flawed, you are just blabbering uselessly now.



> Since when was that? Hyperboles aren't meant to be taking literally. Dende's claim was meant to be taken literally, even if untrue. What makes it an hyperbole if it is a serious but wrong statement?



You are splitting hairs. It's a hyperbole from a narrative standpoint. Either way it's not true.



> Yeah he does. I'm not saying everybody could just wipe out the universe. I'm saying these enemies were universal threats. Majin Buu was considered a threat to the universe because he would go on and terrorize planets until there'd be nobody left and in a universe with 4 galaxies he'd do that pretty quickly.



Do you know how many planets there are in a galaxy?



> According to who? You. I don't really care honestly.



According to logical standards of debating.



> It seems you're fed up with that discussion and I don't want to write a long paragraph only to have you telling me you won't bother reading it because you don't care. That's why I'm saying this. If you want to read what I gotta say, I'll be happy to oblige. If you don't, why would I waste my time?



I read everything you wrote. All you said was "I can see why that makes sense for Naruto but it doesn't make sense here because I said so".


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## Juub (Apr 22, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Your points are flawed, you are just blabbering uselessly now.


 None of my points are flawed Mike. What I'm stating is so obvious but you rather point fallacies in everything I said rather than taking it like it's meant to be taken. Is there something you didn't understand in our discussion?



> You are splitting hairs. It's a hyperbole from a narrative standpoint. Either way it's not true.


 Ah ah what the hell no it isn't. An hyperbole is never meant to be taken seriously be it in a poem or in a story. Dende's claim could have been false but it wasn't an hyperbole because it was meant to be taken literally.




> Do you know how many planets there are in a galaxy?


 Depends witch one. The Milky Way or Andromeda? If you want an average, I can't tell. If you're talking about the Milky Way, hundreds of billions of planets.





> According to logical standards of debating.


 Which you aren't applying properly. I didn't even elaborate on why I think these claims are believable yet you're quick to call logical fallacies on what hasn't even been explained yet. How about you let the opposing party elaborate instead of calling them out for things they didn't do?




> I read everything you wrote. All you said was "I can see why that makes sense for Naruto but it doesn't make sense here because I said so".


 Then you didn't read properly because that's not what I said. I said I could explain if you want to read it. If you don't want to and are just interested in pointing logical fallacies in every sentence, then I won't waste my time and I'll be done with that pointless discussion. Since I stated that a good 3x now, either you haven't read or you're just discretely trolling me.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Apr 22, 2011)

Why are you still arguing this?


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Apr 22, 2011)

Prime Jobberine is leagues ahead of DBZ....


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 22, 2011)

ChINaMaN1472 said:


> Prime Jobberine is leagues ahead of DBZ....



No hes really not, his best feat is stabbing Thanos by surprise with his claws.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 22, 2011)

Juub said:


> None of my points are flawed Mike. What I'm stating is so obvious but you rather point fallacies in everything I said rather than taking it like it's meant to be taken. Is there something you didn't understand in our discussion?



The fact that I am able to point out the fallacies you're making proves that your points are flawed. You just contradicted yourself.



> Ah ah what the hell no it isn't. An hyperbole is never meant to be taken seriously be it in a poem or in a story. Dende's claim could have been false but it wasn't an hyperbole because it was meant to be taken literally.



Why? Because you say so? I don't take anything on statements unless there is sufficient supporting evidence, and this case there sure as hell isn't.



> Depends witch one. The Milky Way or Andromeda? If you want an average, I can't tell. If you're talking about the Milky Way, hundreds of billions of planets.



Okay, and if we're generous and assume he can destroy 1 planet per second, it would still take over 12600 years to destroy every planet in 4 small galaxies. Assume multiple planets per star and larger galaxies and that number just goes up.



> Which you aren't applying properly. I didn't even elaborate on why I think these claims are believable yet you're quick to call logical fallacies on what hasn't even been explained yet. How about you let the opposing party elaborate instead of calling them out for things they didn't do?



Your standards of evidence are too flimsy. There is no precedent and no evidence for what you are claiming at all.



> Then you didn't read properly because that's not what I said. I said I could explain if you want to read it. If you don't want to and are just interested in pointing logical fallacies in every sentence, then I won't waste my time and I'll be done with that pointless discussion. Since I stated that a good 3x now, either you haven't read or you're just discretely trolling me.



Translation: "I'm pretending to have a rebuttal to your claims but I'm not going to actually say what it is, because I don't really have one". Sorry, not buying it.


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## Shock Therapy (Apr 23, 2011)

So Majin buu is a galaxy life wiper (note the difference between that and galaxy wiper), given 12600 years. I'm going to go into a corner and laugh now.


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## Sabotage (Apr 25, 2011)

Professor Dickweed said:


> Is this a joke? Vegeta tosses him into the Sun and uses Final Flash.
> GG



Since when did _Vegetto_ (the character we are actually using) have that kind of strength? And we're using Wolverine at his strongest which is when he had universal power, which means Vegetto gets stomped.


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## HumanWine (Apr 25, 2011)

Wolverine at his best has his claws coated with magical timewarping crystals...


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## macragge101 (Apr 26, 2011)

Hmmmmm.. It seems this thread went off on a tangent. But since this is prime Wolverine and we are using his cosmic form (which i had no idea about), it seems everyone is in agreement that he rapestomps vegito. Pointless arguing about any other of wolvies non-cosmic feats.


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## Disaresta (Apr 26, 2011)

@juube quit trollin boy 

I like it as much as the next person but when your trying to say anyone beats a universal life wiper, if his name isnt alah, GOD, Jesus Christ, Brahma, Galactus or silver surfer you can get that shit out of here.


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## macragge101 (Apr 26, 2011)

sazon uchiha said:


> @juube quit trollin boy
> 
> I like it as much as the next person but when your trying to say anyone beats a universal life wiper, if his name isnt alah, GOD, Jesus Christ, Brahma, Galactus or silver surfer you can get that shit out of here.



Or Chuck Norris


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## Shoddragon (Apr 26, 2011)

Professor Dickweed said:


> Is this a joke? Vegeta tosses him into the Sun and uses Final Flash.
> GG



no dragonball character has that kind of physical strength. read the manga please. not that final flash would really affect the sun anyhow.


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## HumanWine (Apr 27, 2011)

Shoddragon said:


> no dragonball character has that kind of physical strength. read the manga please. not that final flash would really affect the sun anyhow.


What the fuck are you talmbout? Vegeta is capable of flying in and orbit and regularly trades blows with island buster. Thats more than enough to send Vegeta into space when only the former is necessary.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 27, 2011)

You realize the version we're using literally became the universe. He's going to throw the universe into space?


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> You realize the version we're using literally became the universe. He's going to throw the universe into space?


Bull
Thats not the version anyone should be using he had an amp to reach that level of power, next thing you know when we use prime spiderman with his best feats people will start bringing his captain universe feats in for no reason whatsoever but to assure him a win. 

Prime Wolverine is with feats like slashing Gladiator, blitzing the Hulk, or surviving as a skeleton. Hes not beating Vegito with weak shit like that.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 27, 2011)

^That's still more than what Vegetto can handle anyway. You also forgot being stated as being faster than Thor. Jobberine is stupid.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Bull
> Thats not the version anyone should be using he had an amp to reach that level of power, next thing you know when we use prime spiderman with his best feats people will start bringing his captain universe feats in for no reason whatsoever but to assure him a win.
> 
> Prime Wolverine is with feats like slashing Gladiator, blitzing the Hulk, or surviving as a skeleton.



That's why people should always clarify which version of the character they want, and yes if it means strongest version then yes we go with Cosmic Logan and Captain Universe Spidey, because that is them at thier best, and what we mean by prime. 

If people don't want those than the OP needs to rule them out...it's very simple


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

Read the OP again he said regular Wolverine with his best feats. An amp is completely out of the question because while that is the strongest version of said character its still an amp and is done outside of his regular powerset.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> Read the OP again he said regular Wolverine with his best feats. An amp is completely out of the question because while that is the strongest version of said character its still an amp and is done outside of his regular powerset.



No what he said in the OP is use his prime...which would be his strongest irregardless. It's similar to how War Hulk would be Hulk's prime due to being massivly amped due to Celestial Tech and all. 

Being in your prime does not exclude power amping. and irregardless even getting rid of that still leaves us with the stuff you meantioned. Vegito's/ Or vegeta not taking a Wolverine that fought with Gladiator


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

OP said prime means we only use a characters best feats. An Amp is not a feat its a powerup and in general your not getting much mileage out of trying to say that the OP meant were using the strongest Wolverine ever which isn't what he said at all.

"We only use "Wolverine's" best feats" Not Captain Universe or Mkrann crystal Wolverine just regular wolverine with his jobber aura in tact.

He said nothing about amps(which really have no place in a debate since those are feats for the amps power and not Wolverine at that point) and if we had ever brought Captain Universe Spider-man into every debate about a Full power Spider-man then thats just wank in general.


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## Emperor Joker (Apr 27, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> OP said prime means we only use a characters best feats. An Amp is not a feat its a powerup and in general your not getting much mileage out of trying to say that the OP meant were using the strongest Wolverine ever which isn't what he said.
> 
> We only use "Wolverine's" best feats he said nothing about amps and if we had ever brought Captain Universe Spider-man into every debate about a Full power Spider-man then thats just wank in general.



That's not what Prime means though, and it's funny to harp on me on explaining what the OP meant...whn your doing the exact same thing does.

Prime means the most powerful period...that's how prime works and there's a reason why we don't use prime that often in debates, because a character's prime is usually absurdly powerful. Just because it's an doesn't exclude it. Hell Juggernaut's whole routine for example involved him asking an outside force for more power. Does that mean we don't count that as an actual feat when accomplishes something, no we don't.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 27, 2011)

I smell butthurt in this thread


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

Well far be it from me to have to extrapolate what the OP meant by using the term prime but his post clearly wasn't in reference to using the strongest version of said character ever. So hes not using the term prime correctly? That still doesn't change the intent of his post which was to use jobber aura Wolverine and he in fact goes on to list jobber aura Wolverine feats. All we need is the OP's intent rather then wash conjecture over whether he clarified something or not.

Anyway
Wolverine is using the power of the Mkrann crystal and thats not his regular powerset its outside it, at that point your no longer talking about the powers of Wolverine but the Mkrann crystal's powers. A better example is Rogue who consistently has access to all the powers shes absorbed. Her base form doesn't but at her prime with "her" abilities at the max she would be capable of this. No outside amp just her powerset

Its not similar to Juggernaut is at base powered up by Cytorrak and although this is an amp this is actually how he gets his powers in the first place. Amps on top of this one like him using magic to amp himself up to Nightmare's level would be a better comparison.


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## Prince Vegeta (Apr 27, 2011)

Vegeta just by powering up.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 27, 2011)

Doesn't matter if he had an amp or not, there is no rule against characters using external powers, and the OP asked for his best feats, and that version was his best.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 27, 2011)

Wakattebayo said:


> Vegeta just by powering up.



Someone hasn't read the thread


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

Yes it does matter 
Wolverine doesn't have the Mkrann crystal in his standard equipment or any special connection to it to even begin to argue how its a feat under his own powerset, so how would it be an external power up in the first place let alone ignoring the conditions he was under for him to attain that level of power.

Unless your using that version of the character(which were not as the OP clearly meant regular wolverine) you have no place even mentioning something like that.

I feel like I'm on KMC now with this Wolverine wank.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 27, 2011)

But this is Logan at the best he's ever been. And that was it.


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 27, 2011)

The OP is the only one who can decide this argument, arguing back and forth won't get anyone anywhere here since the OP said "best feats" and that could be either with or without the crystal. Wolverine even without that power up would beat Vegetto with his jobber aura feats so why does this matter?


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

A repeat of this except a lot quicker is more believable then regular Wolvie even with his best feats ever killing a DBZ character.

*Spoiler*: __ 







Yeah Wolverine's got this 

You can't even hold up the instances where hes tagged FTL characters because he surprised them or they weren't seriously fighting him.


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## HumanWine (Apr 27, 2011)

Matta Clatta said:


> A repeat of this except a lot quicker is more believable then regular Wolvie even with his best feats ever killing a DBZ character.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


is this a joke post?


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## Tranquil Fury (Apr 27, 2011)

Logan at one point with Jobber aura was stated to be faster than Thor by the Thunder god himself. He's taken hits from Phoenix, Firelord, Hulk and others. Jobber aura is not consistant and it should never be used in a versus thread but if the thread creator allows all of his best feats then he gets them.


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## Matta Clatta (Apr 27, 2011)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Logan at one point with Jobber aura was stated to be faster than Thor by the Thunder god himself. He's taken hits from Phoenix, Firelord, Hulk and others. Jobber aura is not consistant and it should never be used in a versus thread but if the thread creator allows all of his best feats then he gets them.



Wolverine isn't shown to be superior to any of those characters even with the instances of his jobber aura working overtime and until that happens hes not taking down vegito.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 28, 2011)

He is with the crystal


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## Juub (Apr 28, 2011)

They actually did that? I've always loved Wolverine because he is a sheer badass who always relied on brute strength and pure skill to win his fights. The fact he couldn't do anything against the likes of Apocalypse and Storm pissed me off but at least he was somewhat kept in a realistic realm of power. Guess no superhero escaped the ''hur hur, my superhero is the most powerful one ever'' mentality that has plagued Marvel for the past 30 years.

Anything beyond city busting is retarded. Yes, I said it.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Lmao, Vegeta can take him at normal form.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> Lmao, Vegeta can take him at normal form.



Read the thread


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

It doesn't matter if he's not allowed to blow up planets. He'd beat the crap out of him, leaving Wolverine out of breath lying for dead. He could easily decentegrate him with a big bang in one go too without blowing up the planet.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> It doesn't matter if he's not allowed to blow up planets. He'd beat the crap out of him, leaving Wolverine out of breath lying for dead. He could easily decentegrate him with a big bang in one go too without blowing up the planet.





Read the fucking thread


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> It doesn't matter if he's not allowed to blow up planets. He'd beat the crap out of him, leaving Wolverine out of breath lying for dead. He could easily decentegrate him with a big bang in one go too without blowing up the planet.



Not happening when Wolverine is literally an entire universe, which is the version being used.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> Not happening when Wolverine is literally an entire universe, which is the version being used.



How is this a fair fight then? Is Vegeta allowed to go SS4?


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

There's no such thing as SSJ4 as it's not canon, and even if it was it wouldn't help


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> There's no such thing as SSJ4 as it's not canon, and even if it was it wouldn't help



Toriyama helped create GT, the characters not so much the story so yes he is canon or at least did exist in the Dragon Ball Universe.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

No, it's not canon. All he did were some character designs, he said it's an extra story "for the fans" as in not part of his original work.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> No, it's not canon. All he did were some character designs, he said it's an extra story "for the fans" as in not part of his original work.



It is still his creation. He created SS4.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

He did the character design. He did not write the story. It is not part of his continuity. We have gone over this tons of times in the OBD.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> He did the character design. He did not write the story. It's not part of his continuity. We've gone over this hundreds of times in the OBD.



You just admitted that HE created the character. Therefore he does exist and the form may be used in this fight.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

No, he did the *character design.* In other words, he drew what the character would look like. Other people wrote what the character's abilities were, the actions the character took, etc. GT is not a canon continuation, Toriyama even overwrote it with the DB Online backstory which is supposedly more official and different. He also contributed character designs to Chrono Trigger, does that make Chrono Trigger canon to the DBU?


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

DBGT is not canon. 

And it wouldn't make a difference if it was.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> No, he did the *character design.* In other words, he drew what the character would look like. Other people wrote what the character's abilities were, the actions the character took, etc. GT is not a canon continuation, Toriyama even overwrote it with the DB Online backstory which is supposedly more official and different. He also contributed character designs to Chrono Trigger, does that make Chrono Trigger canon to the DBU?



He did write about their abilities, or at least I remember him doing Goku SS4's. Also, just because he stopped writing a manga doesn't mean SS4 Vegeta doesn't exist. I don't I remember this Wolverine being showcased in any form of Manga either.


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> He did write about their abilities, or at least I remember him doing Goku SS4's. Also, just because he stopped writing a manga doesn't mean SS4 Vegeta doesn't exist.* I don't I remember this Wolverine being showcased in any form of Manga either*.



You should really stop posting now.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Also, the title is milseading. Is it Vegeta or Vegito? It wouldn't make a difference anyway since SS4 Vegeta is precisely 10,000 x base form. And Vegito in SS form is possible even stronger.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> You should really stop posting now.



Manga =/= Comics.


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> Also, the title is milseading. Is it Vegeta or Vegito? It wouldn't make a difference anyway since SS4 Vegeta is precisely 10,000 x base form. And Vegito in SS form is possible even stronger.



It's Vegetto that we're using, who gets utterly stomped.. And you have no proof that SSJ4 is that much stronger than regular Vegeta.

And again, SSJ4 is not canon. It wouldn't matter if it was because he would get stomped either way.



Godku said:


> Manga =/= Comics.



What is this supposed to mean? You thought Wolverine was a manga character. You should stop posting.


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## Juub (Apr 29, 2011)

The guy is obviously trolling.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> It's Vegetto that we're using. And you have no proof that SSJ4 is that much stronger than regular Vegeta.
> 
> And again, SSJ4 is not canon. It wouldn't matter it was because he would get stomped either way.



Lol, if it is Vegeto this is a silly thread. Very silly. SS = 100x SS2 = 300x SS3 = 1,000x SS4 = 10,000x. SS4 Vegeta is overkill.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> It's Vegetto that we're using, who gets utterly stomped.. And you have no proof that SSJ4 is that much stronger than regular Vegeta.
> 
> And again, SSJ4 is not canon. It wouldn't matter if it was because he would get stomped either way.
> 
> ...



You are saying we can't use SS4 Vegeta because he was never in a manga, well neither was Wolverine. He's in comics.


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## Juub (Apr 29, 2011)

A really, really bad troll at that.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> He did write about their abilities, or at least I remember him doing Goku SS4's. Also, just because he stopped writing a manga doesn't mean SS4 Vegeta doesn't exist. I don't I remember this Wolverine being showcased in any form of Manga either.



No he didn't. It's a non-canon continuation after he stopped writing the manga.



Godku said:


> Also, the title is milseading. Is it Vegeta or Vegito? It wouldn't make a difference anyway since SS4 Vegeta is precisely 10,000 x base form. And Vegito in SS form is possible even stronger.



Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.



Godku said:


> Lol, if it is Vegeto this is a silly thread. Very silly. SS = 100x SS2 = 300x SS3 = 1,000x SS4 = 10,000x. SS4 Vegeta is overkill.



Cosmic Wolvy still blinks him out of existence with a thought.



Godku said:


> You are saying we can't use SS4 Vegeta because he was never in a manga, well neither was Wolverine. He's in comics.



....Are you fucking serious?


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Niether was in manga's so this fight cannot happen.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

Um, no. The fight is Wolverine at his best ever (when he used the crystal to temporarily become a cosmic being) vs. Vegito. The only restriction is that both sides have to use canon by default.

The crystal incident is canon in Marvel. GT is not canon to the source material of DB. (Wouldn't change the outcome of this fight if it was, just pointing it out).


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Um, no. The fight is Wolverine at his best ever (when he used the crystal to temporarily become a cosmic being) vs. Vegito. The only restriction is that both sides have to use canon by default.
> 
> The crystal incident is canon in Marvel. GT is not canon to the source material of DB. (Wouldn't change the outcome of this fight if it was, just pointing it out).



Canon to marvel? As if anything in marvel can be taken seriously. As I said the Wolverine character depicted here never appeared in a manga.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

And? This is the main OBD, not the anime/manga battledome.

SSJ4 is not canon not because it was never in a manga (tons of anime are canon without a manga), but non-canon because it was a work not created by Toriyama and not part of his original canon.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> And? This is the main OBD, not the anime/manga battledome.
> 
> SSJ4 is not canon not because it was never in a manga (tons of anime are canon without a manga), but non-canon because it was a work not created by Toriyama and not part of his original canon.



But it was a part of his work since he created SS4. Just because he couldn't be arsed to create more books doesn't mean SS4 Vegeta seize to exist. He let someone else do GT because in fact he wanted to end Dragon Ball Z long ago at the end of the Frieza Saga, but fans pushed him. Also, you say this Wolverine is the size of a Universe yet Vegeta is not allowed to blow up planets? What the heck?


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> But it was a part of his work since he created SS4. Just because he couldn't be arsed to create more books doesn't mean SS4 Vegeta seize to exist. He let someone else do GT because in fact he wanted to end Dragon Ball Z long ago at the end of the Frieza Saga, but fans pushed him. Also, you say this Wolverine is the size of a Universe yet Vegeta is not allowed to blow up planets? What the heck?



SSJ4 is not canon. Get over it.

And blame the OP, not us.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

He stopped the series because he wanted to, Toei made a non-canon continuation that he called "an extra story for the fans" and later contradicted with more material he personally created.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> He stopped the series because he wanted to, Toei made a non-canon continuation that he called "an extra story for the fans" and later contradicted with more material he personally created.



We already know this. We also know that HE himself created SS4.


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> We already know this. We also know that HE himself created SS4.



So I guess the Chrono Trigger characters he created are part of Dragonball, right? As well as Dr. Slump and Cowa?

And again it doesn't matter because Cosmic Wolverine erases him from existence.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> So I guess the Chrono Trigger characters he created are part of Dragonball, right? As well as Dr. Slump and Cowa?
> 
> And again it doesn't matter because Cosmic Wolverine erases him from existence.



Those characters were created specifically for Chrono Trigger. Vegeta SS4 was created specifically for the Dragon Ball universe, stop messsing around. Whatever this cosmic Wolverine is it doesn't matter. Kid Buu could easily destroy Galaxies, SS4 Vegeta is about 1,000 times more powerful.


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> Those characters were created specifically for Chrono Trigger. Vegeta SS4 was created specifically for the Dragon Ball universe, stop messsing around. Whatever this cosmic Wolverine is it doesn't matter.* Kid Buu could easily destroy Galaxies*, SS4 Vegeta is about 1,000 times more powerful.



No he wasn't. He was created for DBGT, which is not canon to the series, just like the movies are not canon.


 You've only watched the DBZ anime, haven't you?

And you still don't understand the concept of _*universal power*_.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

roguezan said:


> No he wasn't. He was created for DBGT, which is not canon to the series, just like the movies are not canon.
> 
> 
> You've only watched the DBZ anime, haven't you?
> ...



I've watched everything from the first episode of Dragon Ball to even the GT special. Vegeta is a DB character, Toriyama gave him a SS4 form, he wasn't a completely new character like the Chrono Trigger stuff, he was already a well known character. He just upgraded him as he has right to since he created him.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

He drew what the character would look like, that's all. He even contradicted the events of GT with his "Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!" TV Special and the backstory of Dragonball Online. No one in canon DB can destroy more than a planet. Kid Buu destroyed several hundred planets over a period of several years (stated in the manga). You can't powerscale GT from Z as they are not canon to each other. Furthermore even if we accepted your wank it would not matter as this version of Wolverine has no physical body and can manipulate all of time and space to his will. He could make it so Vegeto or Vegeta (whichever one we're using) was never even born.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> He drew what the character would look like, that's all. He even contradicted the events of GT with his "Yo! Son Goku and his friends return!" TV Special and the backstory of Dragonball Online. No one in canon DB can destroy more than a planet. Kid Buu destroyed several hundred planets over a period of several years (stated in the manga). You can't powerscale GT from Z as they are not canon to each other. Furthermore even if we accepted your wank it would not matter as this version of Wolverine has no physical body and can manipulate all of time and space to his will. He could make it so Vegeto or Vegeta (whichever one we're using) was never even born.



Then what is the point of this battle? Marvel characters are ridiculous. If we go by the real Wolverine we all know not some weird multi-god crap, Vegeta would kill him with a tickle. Kid Buu destroyed several planets within seconds. Go watch the anime again. Also, at the end of Z Goku base form is = to Kid Buu. So at SS4 he's 10,000 x, and that's not even taking into account beyond the limit form.


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## Sabotage (Apr 29, 2011)

The anime isn't canon you dongcart.


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## Endless Mike (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku said:


> Then what is the point of this battle?



Ask the OP.



> Marvel characters are ridiculous. If we go by the real Wolverine we all know not some weird multi-god crap, Vegeta would kill him with a tickle.



This was Wolverine at his absolute best. He temporarily had that kind of power.



> Kid Buu destroyed several planets within seconds. Go watch the anime again.



Non-canon filler. Read the manga.



> Also, at the end of Z Goku base form is = to Kid Buu.



Um, no. Goku fought non-seriously with Uub who was the reincarnation of Buu and they didn't even use ki blasts.



> So at SS4 he's 10,000 x, and that's not even taking into account beyond the limit form.



No, you're just pulling numbers out of your ass. And again, SSJ4 is not canon, no matter how much you want it to be.


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## Godku (Apr 29, 2011)

Endless Mike said:


> Ask the OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Again, as I said if this was the Wolverine everyone knows against the Vegeta everyone knows it'd be a no brainer. 
Also, give me the page number of the manga where it says it took him weeks to destroy galaxies. Also, Goku went easy on Uub because he had the potential to be as strong as Kid Buu but wasn't yet which is why Goku trained him. When 7 years passed Goku in base form was equal to Kid Buu. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass, SS1 was 100 x, 2 was 300 x, 3 was 1k, 4 is said to be 10 times SS3.


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## Xelloss (Apr 29, 2011)

Godku seems you didn't listen to my warning, anyways closing this.


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