# Rasengan vs Raikiri vs Chidori



## Invictus-Kun (Oct 1, 2014)

This is a thread about the 3 cooles Jutsu in this manga, I will set a user and clear it up on your doubts, especialy what kind or Rasengan or Chidori Im talking about.

1. It is a Rasengan that Minato, Naruto and Jiraiya in normal battles, not the Resengans as big as a moon.

2. It's the Raikiri used by Kakashi in his battles.

3. It it not the black Chidori, but a Chidori used by Sasuke in his other battles.

So how do we evaluate this Jutsus?  This is the criteria I made for us to evaluate.

1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu

2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.

3. Chakra comsumed by the jutsu.

4. Others? Please add up and clarify.

Whats the best jutsu among Rasengan, Raikiri, and Chidori?
Rank them using the Poll.


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## t0xeus (Oct 1, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> 1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu


Same in my opinion (not counting hand seals, since nobody uses them anymore).



> 2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.


Raikiri=Chidori>Rasengan.



> 3. Chakra comsumed by the jutsu.


Raikiri > Chidori > Rasengan (meaning that Raikiri consumes most chakra and Rasengan least).



> 4. Others? Please add up and clarify.


Rasengan is probably still better ability overall, since it has no elements in it so it can be useful in many scenarios.


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## Mercurial (Oct 1, 2014)

Raikiri > Chidori = Rasengan


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2014)

Rassengan is the superior one as both Kakashi and Jiraiya noticed.


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2014)

minatoʻs rasengan is superior in everything.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 1, 2014)

Chidori = Raikiri > Rasengan.

There are situations where a rasengan can be more handy, but overall chidori has higher lethality and better armor piercing(which matters more in higher level engagements).


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Chidori = Raikiri > Rasengan.
> 
> There are situations where a rasengan can be more handy, but overall chidori has higher lethality and better armor piercing(which matters more in higher level engagements).



where are the examples?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 1, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> where are the examples?



Obito not being damaged by KCM Naruto's rasengan and Kakashi ramming his hand through his chest with raikiri might be a good start.


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Obito not being damaged by KCM Naruto's rasengan and Kakashi ramming his hand through his chest with raikiri might be a good start.



Hmm.... lets see now.

Obitoʻs arm was touched for a brief instant by the rasengan when KCM Naruto passed over that point in the real world.  

And did kakashi use the traditional raikiri on Obito?  I seem to remember him focusing the thing on the top of a kunai which would logically massively increase the penetrating power considering a kunai is waaaaaaaaaaaay sharper than a human hand.

Disingenuous comparison is disingenuous.

Give me a genuine example of a raikiri/chidori and a rasengan hitting something similar.

As far as Obito not being damaged by narutoʻs rasengan, I seem to remember him not only being damaged, but also *only being able to heal from that damage 6 chapters after getting struck by the tech.*


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 1, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Hmm.... lets see now.
> 
> Obitoʻs arm was touched for a brief instant by the rasengan when KCM Naruto passed over that point in the real world.
> 
> ...



Actually, running raiton through weapons isn't the same as using Chidori or Raikiri. It is inferior. 
As we've seen, Sasuke's raiton infused blade bounced off A's armor while chidori did go through it.

I was also referring to this : *only being able to heal from that damage 6 chapters after getting struck by the tech.*

And lol'd @ the excuses you lined up vs Rasengan vs Obito's arm


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## Alex Payne (Oct 1, 2014)

In battles without advanced defenses Rasengan is the more balanced choice due to slightly faster activation and less required chakra to use. Raikiri on the other hand would work better when defenses are involved(i.e. Domu, Raiton Shroud, abnormally tough folks, chakra cloaks) and when used like it is supposed to use(with high-speed dash) it is a lot harder to dodge + grants assassination variant of usage(see Kakuzu). Rasengan is elementally neutral and while Raikiri has weakness to Futon(Raikiri vs Asuma's charged Hien is going to perform a lot worse than Rasengan for example) it also possesses advantage over Doton style. 

I'd take Raikiri personally but it would depend on the user. Normal Rasengan requires set ups for it to be used effectively(clone-feints, Hiraishin) while Raikiri requires advanced perception/senses for its full potential to be utilized.

Portrayal-wise we have Chidori=Rasengan and Raikiri being Chidori's more polished variant.


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## ueharakk (Oct 1, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Actually, running raiton through weapons isn't the same as using Chidori or Raikiri. It is inferior.
> As we've seen, Sasuke's raiton infused blade bounced off A's armor while chidori did go through it.



No it isnʻt.  ʻrunning raiton through a weaponʻ is just an extremely general statement.   Sasukeʻs chidori katana runs raiton throughout the length of the entire blade and the attack he used on Ei was a slash, it wasnʻt a pinpoint stab like a chidori thrust that focuses the entire power on penetrating point.

Kakashiʻs raikiri kunai focuses the entire power of the raikiri on the tip of his kunai, you can literally see how sharp it makes the raikiri as itʻs no longer just a cluster of raiton chakra around the hand, but *a pointed spear.*

Then thereʻs the fact that raikiri > chidori as raikiri is an S rank version of the chidori.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I was also referring to this : *a pointed spear.*


Right, because genjutsu = reality.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> And lol'd @ the excuses you lined up vs Rasengan vs Obito's arm


Well since "lol @ the excuses you lined up etc" isnʻt in anyway shape or form a counterargument, then I accept your concession on that point.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2014)

Did not the child's rassengan destroy Ashura parth completely, while Kakashi's Raikiri couldn't?


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## Kyu (Oct 1, 2014)

> 1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu



Rasengan. Chidori & Raikiri require handseals don't they?



> 2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.



Chidori/Raikiri are assassination jutsu. Obviously the Rasengan can kill too but it usually needs prolonged contact with it's target to cause death.

Unless we're talking about Base Minato's Rasengan that can create fairly large craters in the ground.



> Did not the child's rassengan destroy Ashura parth completely, while Kakashi's Raikiri couldn't?



That was a _Senpō: Rasengan_.

Not a regular one.


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## Trojan (Oct 1, 2014)

Even then, if we consider the "normal" Rassengan of all the users, it's obvious that the result would be the same.
Minato's Rassengan is even more powerful than his KCM child's Rassengan, and I don't see how would Asura Path survive that. 

but as I mentioned earlier, even Kakashi admitted that his jutsu is inferior, so that's that... @.@


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## Thunder (Oct 1, 2014)

> 1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu



The one handed Rasengan will usually be quicker on the draw since it doesn't require hand-seals. Perfect for someone like Minato who warps around. He can port over to you and form Rasengan in an instant.



> 2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.



Raikiri / Chidori is very fine blade of Raiton chakra used for piercing. Pretty straight forward.

Rasengan is a sphere of violently rotating chakra which explodes on impact. Essentially it's a small scale Bijūdama — the jutsu Minato had in mind when he developed Rasengan.



> 3. Chakra comsumed by the jutsu.



Hard to quantify this since it depends on the user. If I had to guess I'd say Chidori / Raikiri is a bit more chakra taxing since Raiton chakra is required while Rasengan is just normal chakra.


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## Bonly (Oct 2, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> 1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu



IIRC we've seen Chidori+Raikiri be used without the need of making hand seals so I guess they're all more or less equal now



> 2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.



More or less equal, different attacks that do different types of damage. One would be better suited then the other depending on the situation.



> 3. Chakra comsumed by the jutsu.



I have no bloody clue mate lol



> 4. Others? Please add up and clarify.



I've got nothing 



> Whats the best jutsu among Rasengan, Raikiri, and Chidori?
> Rank them using the Poll.



I find them to be more or less equal overall wise.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 2, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> No it isnʻt.  ʻrunning raiton through a weaponʻ is just an extremely general statement.   Sasukeʻs chidori katana runs raiton throughout the length of the entire blade and the attack he used on Ei was a slash, it wasnʻt a pinpoint stab like a chidori thrust that focuses the entire power on penetrating point.


And Sasuke's attack focuses the entire power on the edge of the blade.
And the edge of the blade is much sharper and thinner than Sasuke's finger tips.
So no, that logic doesn't apply.



> Kakashiʻs raikiri kunai focuses the entire power of the raikiri on the tip of his kunai, you can literally see how sharp it makes the raikiri as itʻs no longer just a cluster of raiton chakra around the hand, but *a pointed spear.*


Read above, Sasuke's Chidori katana have a shaper and thinner edge than Sasuke's finger tips, so logically it should have been more penetrative.



> Then thereʻs the fact that raikiri > chidori as raikiri is an S rank version of the chidori.


As far as we know, other than their name and their ambigious databook rank(which doesn't directly reflect the power of the technique but rather the difficulty of learning it) there is literally no difference noted or shown between the two techniques in the entire course of the 700 chapter manga.



> Right, because genjutsu = reality.


Whats the difference ? 

Kakashi got penetrated by Obito's ninja star, are you telling me that he could have tanked it otherwise ? 
If not, does your logic apply to only Kakashi's raikiri ? 
Or are you suggesting that people have reduced durability in genjutsu for some reason ? If so, please provide evidence.



> Well since "lol @ the excuses you lined up etc" isnʻt in anyway shape or form a counterargument, then I accept your concession on that point.



I already presented my counter argument : "excuses."
Minor technicalities, that only nitpickers can see. Manga overlooks such things. Except the times it points them out of course. In this case it didn't. So no, Obito took KCM Naruto's rasengan straight to his shoulder, and it didn't even inflict real damage.


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## Mercurial (Oct 2, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> And Sasuke's attack focuses the entire power on the edge of the blade.
> And the edge of the blade is much sharper and thinner than Sasuke's finger tips.
> So no, that logic doesn't apply.
> 
> ...



Kakashi's Raikiri sliced through a giant steel shuriken like a hot knife in the butter (1). Unless someone want's to sustain that Obito's body is far, far, far tougher than steel (which I really doubt), Kakashi's "usual" Raikiri (hand + Raiton chakra and not handed kunai + Raiton chakra) is more than enough to pierce and cut him with absolute ease, if landed.


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## Semiotic Sacrilege (Oct 2, 2014)

Kakashi has used Raikiri without hands seals many times. It's about as instant as a Jutsu can be. I believe Sasuke has done the same with Chidori as well. Both Raikiri and Chidori are far better techniques than Rasengan in my opinion. They have so much versatility and have proven to be far more deadly in practice. Rasengan variants only seem to increase the blast radius and power of the technique. Raikiri and Chidori can be used in a variety of different ways. Personally, I'd rather have a versatile technique that's also a one hit kill if it lands over a nuke with no real finesse. And if we discount all the variants, both Raikiri and Chidori have more feats than Rasengan.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 2, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi's Raikiri sliced through a giant steel shuriken like a hot knife in the butter (1). Unless someone want's to sustain that Obito's body is far, far, far tougher than steel (which I really doubt), Kakashi's "usual" Raikiri (hand + Raiton chakra and not handed kunai + Raiton chakra) is more than enough to pierce and cut him with absolute ease, if landed.



Yes, it would. That is the reason why Kakashi was shown to be able to penetrate Obito's chest with absolute ease twice in genjutsu before he actually did it by running raiton flow  through a Kunai.

Its as if Kishimoto was trying to make a point lol. But sometimes even that isn't enough for some people


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## JuicyG (Oct 2, 2014)

Considering all variants of the jutsu's listed, Rasengan would be by far more deadly. Could take out an entire nation with BSM naruto usage unlike the others


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## Remsengan (Oct 2, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> 1. Speed of Casting and Preparation for Jutsu



Neither require seals anymore.  The vanilla variants of chidori/raikiri and rasengan are essentially formed at the same speed. 



Invictus-Kun said:


> 2. Effect of the Jutsu, deadly or something.



Piercing vs Drilling/Exploding.  Generally speaking, chidori and raikiri are better used against humanoid, armored targets.  Rasengan will fair better against multiple foes, if made larger with chakra, and against larger targets like summons.



Invictus-Kun said:


> 3. Chakra comsumed by the jutsu.



I think it varies depending on how much chakra is used.  When seals had to be formed, I would wager that the chakra would have to be determined in advance.  With chidori/raikiri, Kakashi's comments indicate that the chakra used was some static amount, which is why he could compare uses between himself and Sasuke.  Because no seals are used, I think the user of either tech. can simply input the chakra to make the jutsu as strong as what's required.

For what it's worth, I think chidori/raikiri has a higher base damage, but rasengan has a higher chakra threshold, and scales better.



Invictus-Kun said:


> 4. Others? Please add up and clarify.
> Whats the best jutsu among Rasengan, Raikiri, and Chidori?
> Rank them using the Poll.




Chidori/Raikiri is simply better at single target strikes.  Supposing a hit was guaranteed,  chidori is almost guaranteed to pierce unless it's hard countered with Fuuton, or mitigated with a Raiton defense.  However, rasengan is more dynamic and can be used in more situations, while still retaining decent single-target effectiveness.  Rasengan can be used against summons, is better against multiple opponents, can be made larger with more chakra input, ect.

Rasengan is the better justu overall, but nothing beats chidori in terms of assassination.


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## RedChidori (Oct 2, 2014)

Chidori cuz Revolution bitches  !


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## ueharakk (Oct 6, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> And Sasuke's attack focuses the entire power on the edge of the blade.
> And the edge of the blade is much sharper and thinner than Sasuke's finger tips.
> So no, that logic doesn't apply.
> 
> ...


You didnʻt understand what I typed.  Sure the katana blade is sharper than sasukeʻs fingertips, however the chidori is spread across the entire length of the blade.  When its on sasukeʻs hand, its all focused on a much smaller object, and sasuke stabs the target with chidori, he doesnʻt try to slice it, that puts all of his forward momentum on a singular point, not spread out across a long edge like his kusanagi.  The manga says it time and time again that what makes chidori such a powerful attack is the manner in which itʻs delivered:* that is running at full speed right at the target focusing the power on one point.*



Grimmjowsensei said:


> As far as we know, other than their name and their ambigious databook rank(which doesn't directly reflect the power of the technique but rather the difficulty of learning it) there is literally no difference noted or shown between the two techniques in the entire course of the 700 chapter manga.


Databook ranks do reflect the power of a technique if both techniques are comparable, and have the same amount of chakra put into them.  If raikiri (by your own admission) is literally the same thing as chidori, yet one is listed as an S rank and one is listed as an A rank, then they must be ranked differently due to the power that both techniques possess all things equal.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Whats the difference ?
> 
> Kakashi got penetrated by Obito's ninja star, are you telling me that he could have tanked it otherwise ?
> If not, does your logic apply to only Kakashi's raikiri ?
> Or are you suggesting that people have reduced durability in genjutsu for some reason ? If so, please provide evidence.


Wait a second, since when did I say that EVERYTHING in the genjutsu world is false?  Kakashi has two legs in the genjutsu world, does that mean he doesnʻt have two legs in the real world?  Obviously not.  

People can have increased or decreased durability in the genjutsu world since itʻs genjutsu, itʻs not suppose to reflect reality.  If kakashi could have stabbed obito with just a raikiri, he would have done that in the real world, not concentrate it on the point of a kunai.  Obito walked into kakashiʻs raikiri and it went through him like butter, yet* kakashiʻs raikiri couldnʻt even get through asura path when he runs at him and stabs him with full force.
*  What happens when asura goes against a sm rasengan?  *instantly gets his back blown open.*



Grimmjowsensei said:


> I already presented my counter argument : "excuses."
> Minor technicalities, that only nitpickers can see. Manga overlooks such things. Except the times it points them out of course. In this case it didn't. So no, Obito took KCM Naruto's rasengan straight to his shoulder, and it didn't even inflict real damage.


so by your logic, any response to a counterargument is an excuse?  
How is that a minor technicality?  The manga made it a thing to point out obitoʻs shoulder healing from the damage that the rasengan did.  Rasengans inflict internal damage, most of the time they donʻt mess up the outside of the target so why would we expect to see obitoʻs arm get obliterated by the attack?  You didnʻt address the fact that the rasengan touched his arm for a mere instant, and since you havenʻt given any kind of logical response to my argument about the damage it did to his arm you would be conceding that point.





Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi's Raikiri sliced through a giant steel shuriken like a hot knife in the butter (1). Unless someone want's to sustain that Obito's body is far, far, far tougher than steel (which I really doubt), Kakashi's "usual" Raikiri (hand + Raiton chakra and not handed kunai + Raiton chakra) is more than enough to pierce and cut him with absolute ease, if landed.


yet narutoʻs rasengan has easily destroyed pains chakra rods, and these rods are 3 times more durable than steel.  *And then thereʻs obitoʻs body vs iron.*


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## J★J♥ (Oct 6, 2014)

For the fucks sake chidori and raikiri are same technique


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 6, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> You didnʻt understand what I typed.  Sure the katana blade is sharper than sasukeʻs fingertips, however the chidori is spread across the entire length of the blade.  When its on sasukeʻs hand, its all focused on a much smaller object, and sasuke stabs the target with chidori, he doesnʻt try to slice it, that puts all of his forward momentum on a singular point, not spread out across a long edge like his kusanagi.  The manga says it time and time again that what makes chidori such a powerful attack is the manner in which itʻs delivered:* that is running at full speed right at the target focusing the power on one point.*



First, the surface of the blade is actually not bigger than the surface area of Sasuke's hand. Sasuke's hand is wider and alot thicker.
So again, going by your logic, the edge of the blade should have been much much sharper than the tip of Sasuke's hand, no matter how you look @ it.

Second, you are comparing running raiton chakra through an object to using Raikiri/Chidori. Because I am not sure if  you are aware of it or not but using Chidori is not the same as running raiton chakra through your hand.

Chidori is a high level technique which is boasted for its piercing power. If it could be achieved by simply running raiton chakra through a kunai, then that technique would be redundant because everyone else would be able to do it without learning it and of course Kakashi would never use chidori and instead he'd just run chakra through his kunai. 

With all that said, I agree that thrusting attacks have better penetration than slashin attacks, but your example here is flawed, so it isn't working in this case.

Chidori > Raiton chakra kunai




> Databook ranks do reflect the power of a technique if both techniques are comparable, and have the same amount of chakra put into them.  If raikiri (by your own admission) is literally the same thing as chidori, yet one is listed as an S rank and one is listed as an A rank, then they must be ranked differently due to the power that both techniques possess all things equal.


I honestly don't know why the ranking is different. But Gai basically said they are the same technique.
I put manga above Databook so I'll basically go with manga evidence here.

Gai specifically said they are the same technique and Kakashi's is called Raikiri only because he cut a lighting with it.
Which is a reference to a real life Japanease Samurai's sword.



He named his sword "Raikiri" after it was struck by a bolt of lightning. It is just a sword, with a name.
Same goes for Raikiri. It is just a chidori, with a name.



> Wait a second, since when did I say that EVERYTHING in the genjutsu world is false?  Kakashi has two legs in the genjutsu world, does that mean he doesnʻt have two legs in the real world?  Obviously not.


Then how do you make the distinction what is real and what isn't ? Kakashi's durability was the same but Obito had reduced durability ? 
Based on what ?



> People can have increased or decreased durability in the genjutsu world since itʻs genjutsu, itʻs not suppose to reflect reality.


Again, how will you make the distinction ? 



> If kakashi could have stabbed obito with just a raikiri, he would have done that in the real world, not concentrate it on the point of a kunai.



He didn't do it because their real life skirmish was mimicing their past duel when they were kids. They were fighting with Kunais, and to be able to mimic the exact same thing, Kakashi didn't throw away his kunai and switched to Raikiri but instead he ran raiton chakra through his Kunai, making it look like an exact replica of their past battle. Context much ? 

Also, have you seen Obito tank a Raikiri in real world ? If you haven't, then how do you know he had reduced durability in the genjutsu ? 

I don't want to sound rude, but you are completely talking out of your ass @ this point.
Your argument has no merit.




> Obito walked into kakashiʻs raikiri and it went through him like butter, yet* kakashiʻs raikiri couldnʻt even get through asura path when he runs at him and stabs him with full force.
> *  What happens when asura goes against a sm rasengan?  *instantly gets his back blown open.*


Kakashi's hand impaled Asura, what are you talking about ? 
Also asura is mechanical, not flesh, so explosive attacks work better on him because of their AOE.
Naruto used the same rasengan on animal realm and heal realm and they didn't blow into pieces. 

And that was a SM Rasengan, why don't we apply sage chakra to chidori and then compare them ? Not just the potency of the chakra, but also the strength/momentum behind the hit.



> so by your logic, any response to a counterargument is an excuse?
> How is that a minor technicality?  The manga made it a thing to point out obitoʻs shoulder healing from the damage that the rasengan did.  Rasengans inflict internal damage, most of the time they donʻt mess up the outside of the target so why would we expect to see obitoʻs arm get obliterated by the attack?  You didnʻt address the fact that the rasengan touched his arm for a mere instant, and since you havenʻt given any kind of logical response to my argument about the damage it did to his arm you would be conceding that point.


First off, Rasengan do inflict external damage. It can't inflict internal damage if it can't bypass the exterior. Also, if it inflicted internal damage, then Obito's bones would be broken or his shoulder would be dislocated, and Obito had shown no sign of inability to use his arm even momentarily.

Also second off, rasengan goes off with an explosioın after it touches its target. I said it is a minor technicality because who cares if Obito took 85% of the damage ? . Unless it is a major difference, then it doesn't matter. Rasnegan touched Obito's arm and it exploded.

And on top of that, it was a KCM rasengan. Let me dig up those scans where shinobi were talking about how much their power was amplified by Kyuubi's chakra after they recieved those shrouds from him.  Kakashi said something like "3x" ?


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## ueharakk (Oct 7, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> First, the surface of the blade is actually not bigger than the surface area of Sasuke's hand. Sasuke's hand is wider and alot thicker.
> So again, going by your logic, the edge of the blade should have been much much sharper than the tip of Sasuke's hand, no matter how you look @ it.


Sasukeʻs hand is wider, sasukeʻs hand is a lot thicker, but that in no way makes the blade have a larger surface area since the blade has a much greater length compared to how much wider and thicker sasukeʻs hand is in comparison.  Plus, sasukeʻs chidori katana encompasses his hand along with the blade and its hilt.  So nope.



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Second, you are comparing running raiton chakra through an object to using Raikiri/Chidori. Because I am not sure if  you are aware of it or not but using Chidori is not the same as running raiton chakra through your hand.
> 
> Chidori is a high level technique which is boasted for its piercing power. If it could be achieved by simply running raiton chakra through a kunai, then that technique would be redundant because everyone else would be able to do it without learning it and of course Kakashi would never use chidori and instead he'd just run chakra through his kunai.


Youʻre the one whoʻs comparing running raiton chakra through an object to using raikiri/chidori.  Kakashiʻs use of raikiri *explicitly shows him using raikiri and applying it to the object.*  So nope, itʻs not merely raiton flow itʻs* raikiri kunai.*

If you want to argue that sasuke merely used raiton flow on his sword, you can go ahead and do that, but itʻs only going to hurt your case.





Grimmjowsensei said:


> I honestly don't know why the ranking is different. But Gai basically said they are the same technique.
> I put manga above Databook so I'll basically go with manga evidence here.
> 
> Gai specifically said they are the same technique and Kakashi's is called Raikiri only because he cut a lighting with it.
> Which is a reference to a real life Japanease Samurai's sword.


Sasuke explicitly made the distinction that his technique *was chidori, not raikiri.*  naruto even *makes that distinction.*

Kakashi even calls his attack raikiri now, yet when he first developed it he called it chidori.  Thereʻs a clear distinction between the two techniques by both manga and databook.  Raikiri > chidori.




Grimmjowsensei said:


> Then how do you make the distinction what is real and what isn't ? Kakashi's durability was the same but Obito had reduced durability ?
> Based on what ?
> 
> Again, how will you make the distinction ?


Based on real-world feats of course, and the fact that when the event occured in reality, Kakashi needed to use raikiri through the tip of a kunai in order to do it while in the genjutsu world, obito could walk right into his raikiri.  The manga made the explanation about how sandaime raikageʻs nukite is so penetrative: he concentrates all the power onto his fingertips.  Therefore concentrating the power of the raikiri onto something like a kunai would logically make the penetrating power go way beyond what can be accomplished with a hand.




Grimmjowsensei said:


> He didn't do it because their real life skirmish was mimicing their past duel when they were kids. They were fighting with Kunais, and to be able to mimic the exact same thing, Kakashi didn't throw away his kunai and switched to Raikiri but instead he ran raiton chakra through his Kunai, making it look like an exact replica of their past battle. Context much ?
> 
> Also, have you seen Obito tank a Raikiri in real world ? If you haven't, then how do you know he had reduced durability in the genjutsu ?


Their clash as in them stabbing each other was the context of the event, obviously it had nothing to do with the weapons as obito didnʻt have chakra rods in his real life confrontation with kakashi.  

Have you seen obito get pierced by a raikiri in the real world?  If you havenʻt then how do you know he didnʻt have reduced durability in the genjutsu?  




Grimmjowsensei said:


> I don't want to sound rude, but you are completely talking out of your ass @ this point.
> Your argument has no merit.
> 
> Kakashi's hand impaled Asura, what are you talking about ?
> ...



When did I argue kakashiʻs hand didnʻt impale asura?  I said his hand couldnʻt GET THROUGH HIM.  That means it couldnʻt do what it did against Obito: go in one end and come out the other, since if it did that, deva path would have been dead or at the very least injured, yet that didnʻt happen.  Kakashi actually hit asura with the full force of the attack, got his raikiri stopped and then continued to shove the attack into asura in hopes that it would go through, yet it didnʻt.  

youʻre comparing a kyuubi chakra rasengan to kakashiʻs raikiri since itʻs from KCM Naruto, so thatʻs why the sage mode increase to the attack is irrelevant for this comparison between the two.  Why would an explosive attack work better on asura because of its AoE? Asura is made of vital parts just like any human, and exactly, if rasengan didnʻt blow people as weak as animal or helm to pieces then why would it not doing that to obittoʻs arm have anything to do with how much damage it inflicted on them?  





Grimmjowsensei said:


> First off, Rasengan do inflict external damage. It can't inflict internal damage if it can't bypass the exterior. Also, if it inflicted internal damage, then Obito's bones would be broken or his shoulder would be dislocated, and Obito had shown no sign of inability to use his arm even momentarily.


Why wouuld it have to destroy obitoʻs bones in order to inflict internal damage?  Why would the rasengan do anywhere near its full damage to obitoʻs arm if it merely touched it for the brief instant naruto passed over the body part?



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Also second off, rasengan goes off with an explosioın after it touches its target. I said it is a minor technicality because who cares if Obito took 85% of the damage ? . Unless it is a major difference, then it doesn't matter. Rasnegan touched Obito's arm and it exploded.


Did the rasengan go off in an explosion the instant it touched the target *here?*  How about *here?*  Do you know how many times the rasengan hits the target and then travels with them or grinds into them before it does its full damage?  You can even see it on the scan with obito, *the rasengan didnʻt explode, itʻs making contact with obitoʻs arm and grinding it up.*




Grimmjowsensei said:


> And on top of that, it was a KCM rasengan. Let me dig up those scans where shinobi were talking about how much their power was amplified by Kyuubi's chakra after they recieved those shrouds from him.  Kakashi said something like "3x" ?


sure KCM rasengan > base rasengan, but the KCM VERSION of the base rasengan isnʻt a kcm rasengan, the KCM version of a base rasengan is *this.*


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 8, 2014)

*Casting Speed: Kakashi's Raikiri = Naruto's Rasengan = Sasuke's Chidori

*Jutsu Power: Kakashi's Raikiri > Naruto's Rasengan >/= Sasuke's Chidori

*Chakra Consumption: Kakashi's Raikiri = Sasuke's Chidori > Naruto's Rasengan*

I'd say Kakashi's Raikiri is the best technique of the three, and Sasuke's Chidori the worst. It may sound odd, but it's the truth.

Kakashi's Raiden, which essentially equates to two Raikiri diffused into one long blade for higher cutting ability, was capable of slicing through a Version 2 Jinchuriki's chakra arms like a hot knife through butter. Considering the fact that Version 2 Naruto was capable of tanking a direct stab from Orochimaru's fully extended Kusanagi, _a sword hyped as being capable of cutting through nearly anything (including diamond)_ without even suffering so much as a paper cut in the process, for Raiden to harm it all is a huge feat indeed.

In contrast, Sasuke's Chidori failed to seriously injure A through the latter's lightning armor - which I highly doubt is as durable as a Version 2 chakra shroud (it's clearly _not_ as dense, that's for sure) or capable of taking Orochimaru's fully extended Kusanagi head-on and without getting killed in the process. Then you also have the fact that Kakashi's Raikiri is ranked higher as jutsu than either Chidori or Rasengan, being a S-Class technique unlike the latter two. Both Naruto and Sasuke also make it clear Raikiri and Chidori are NOT one in the same, even though they have the same base and are very similar techniques. It's kind of like the difference between Rasengan and Odama Rasengan.

Kakashi's Raikiri is also _considerably_ more focused than Sasuke's Chidori, likely giving it considerably greater penetrative power in return.

Naruto's Rasengan is either equal to Sasuke's Chidori, or slightly stronger. This has been proved by nearly all interactions between the two techniques, and if they don't end up stalemating cancelling each other out completely, the Rasengan seems to be the stronger jutsu. It's highly implied this could be the case, when you consider how Naruto's Rasengan messed up a water pump to such an extent, that Sasuke (who damaged a similar pump with his Chidori) was absolutely terrified by what had happened. I seriously doubt that's the reaction of someone who thinks Rasengan is only 'equal' to his technique in strength, much less inferior. It also doesn't help the fact that every time they meet and clash, _Naruto is never gunning to kill Sasuke and is only merely trying to stop him_, whereas Sasuke is all in and going all out for the kill. Each and every time.

As far as chakra consumption goes, the Rasengan has never been stated (IIRC) to be a jutsu that takes a lot of chakra to use. Compare and contrast with Chidori and Raikiri, which can only be used a fixed number of times - in Part I, Sasuke and Kakashi were only able to use Chidori and Raikiri respectively, about two to three times in a day, due to the sheer amount of chakra required to use the jutsu in either case. As far as I know, Naruto's Rasengan has never been stated to be a jutsu that takes much chakra to use, much less one that can only be used a fixed number of times a day. While Sasuke and Kakashi can use Chidori and Raikiri respectively many more times than just twice or thrice in Part II, going by all established logic, the Rasengan should still take even less chakra to use on Naruto's part. I mean to say, Kakashi and Sasuke have grown, so has Naruto too.


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