# Top 25



## Shiroryu (Jul 18, 2019)

*(Supreme Tier)*
1. Im
*(High Top Tier)*
2. Kaido
3. Mihawk
4. Shanks
5. Big Mom
6. Blackbeard
7. Dragon
*(Mid Top Tier)*
8. Akainu
9. Aokiji
10. Kizaru
11. Fujitora
12. Ryokugyu (until we get feats from him)
13. Garp
14. Rayleigh 
15. Sengoku 
16. Weevil
17. Beckman
*(Low Top Tier)*
18. Sabo
19. Luffy
20. Marco
21. Katakuri
22. King
23. Shiryu
24. Lucky Roo
25. Magellan

Reactions: Like 3


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## oiety (Jul 18, 2019)

atm (without really speculating on im or dragon and only using living characters) I definitely think it's

1. Kaido.
2. Fleet Admiral Akainu.
3. Mihawk.
4. Shanks.
5. Big Mom.
6. Blackbeard.
7. Kizaru.
8. One leg lost Aokiji.
9. Greenbull/Fujitora
10. Greenbull/Fujitora.
11. Old(er) Garp
12. Old(er) Rayleigh
13. Old(er) Sengoku.
_This ends the top tier.
_
14. Ben Beckman.
14.5 because I'm too lazy to reformat. Tsuru
15. Momosagi/Chaton
16. Chaton/Momosagi
17. Marco/Weevil
18. Weevil/Marco
19. Wano Luffy with advanced CoA basics
20. Mera Mera Sabo
20. King
21. Katakuri.
22. Assuming Lucky Roo is Shanks YC2, he's here.
23. Again, assuming Jozu was the WB #2, he's here.
24. Queen, presumably.

This would probably continue on into the lower YC levels, but the one's truly relevant to matchups almost certainly end with Katakuri, who I'm using as a benchmark here.

goes without saying that all of this is subject to change.
_
edit:  _
I moved Tsuru up with "possibly strongest female marine", "above her fellow VA's due to power and experience", and "proficient in armament and observation"

Reactions: Like 2


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 18, 2019)

01. Kaido
02. Akainu
03. Blackbeard
04. Mihawk & Shanks
05. Big Mom
06. Dragon
07. Kuzan
08. Ryokugyu & Fujitora
09. Garp
10. Kong
11. Rayleigh
12. Sengoku
13. Weevil
14. Benn Beckman
15. Chaton & Momousagi
16. King & Shiryuu
17. Marco
18. Katakuri
19. Jozu
20. Lucky Roo
21. Queen
22. Smoothie
23. Sentomaru
24. Kyoshiro
25. Jack
26. Vista & Yasopp
27. Cracker
28. Doflamingo
29. Tsuru
30. John Giant

Not sure about: Luffy, Law, Zoro, Sabo, Hancock, Kuma, Magellan and Rob Lucci.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Luke (Jul 18, 2019)

Alright, my current list is:

1. Kaidou
2. Shanks 
3. Akainu 
4. Garp 
5. Big Mom 
6. Blackbeard 
7. Mihawk 
8. Dragon 
9. Kizaru 
10. Aokiji 
11. Ryokugyu
12. Rayleigh 
13. MF Sengoku
14. Fujitora
15. Beckman 
*gap*
16. Marco
17. King
18. Lucky Roo 
19. Sabo
20. Luffy 
21. Katakuri 
22. Jozu
23. Queen
24. Smoothie
25. Yasopp/Vista 

Im is almost certainly high up there, just not sure where yet.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 18, 2019)

All the Admirals/Yonko, Mihawk and Dragon/Aokiji are in the top 1-11

After that is the Geezers, Garp , Sengoku, Rayleigh  12-14

After that is the Yonko top commanders level dudes  Luffy, Shilliew, Katakuri, Marco, King , Beckman 15-20

Fill in the rest for the others, maybe a couple second commanders, maybe the two new Vice Admirals from the Marines

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Jul 18, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> 01. Kaido
> 02. Akainu
> 03. Blackbeard
> 04. Mihawk & Shanks
> ...


the SC are truly undderrated.


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## Sumu (Jul 18, 2019)

1. Shanks
2. Kaido
3. Dragon
4. Big Mom
5. Blackbeard
6. Akainu
7. Mihawk
8. Kuzan
9. Kizaru
10. Fujitora/Greenbull
11. Fujitora/Greenbull
12. Garp
13. Benn Beckman
14. Rayleigh
15. Sengoku
16. Sabo
17. King 
18. Luffy
19. Katakuri
20. Marco
21. Shiryu
22. Rob Lucci 
23. Kid 
24. Lucky Roo
25. Queen

Reactions: Like 1


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## barreltheif (Jul 18, 2019)

Top Tier
1 Im
2 Kaido
3-4 Mihawk, Dragon
5-7 Shanks, Akainu, Aokiji
8-11 Teach, Big Mom, Kizaru, Garp
12-16 Sengoku, Kong, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Green Bull
Unknown placement within top tier: Rocks and the Gorosei

---large gap---

23-27 Luffy, Marco, Katakuri, King, Beckman

Reactions: Like 1


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 18, 2019)

MO said:


> the SC are truly undderrated.



14.  Benn Beckman
15. Chaton & Momousagi
16. King & Shiryuu
17. Marco
18. Katakuri

I dont see much of an issue, hes bacially listing all the top commanders together.  Just because Katakuri is the at the bottom does not mean he gets hiss ass kicked by them. 

Its probably very close between all of them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Jul 18, 2019)

@Furinji Saiga I think he means that all SCs are below their counterpart YC. 

But I agree with you, tough fight even if they may be weakest overall.


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## oiety (Jul 18, 2019)

Damn, forgot Lucci.

CP-0 member, at least one with enough narrative focus to get reintroduced like him should AT LEAST be mid-VA level, arguably higher in Lucci's case. I don't know if he's Momosagi/Chaton level but I could definitely see him beating Smoker.

Counting the film Gold thing (not sure if Oda ever spoke more about it) then I'd put him with sabo, as in Mera Sabo>=CP-0 Lucci


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 18, 2019)

Law said:


> @Furinji SaigaI think he means that all SCs are below their counterpart YC.
> 
> But I agree with you, tough fight even if they may be weakest overall.



Yeah and thats fine, so long as they are grouped together.

So if someone says the strongest commanders, you can have Katakuri at the bottom of the list, he would still be counted among them.

Its like when people talk about the Fujitora  "weakest" Admiral( not that I agree with that notion)  it means little when the difference is that small.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Jul 18, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> 14.  Benn Beckman
> 15. Chaton & Momousagi
> 16. King & Shiryuu
> 17. Marco
> ...


I don't get why the SC are always put below the counterpart. Katakuri for some reason is the weakest first mate. Smoothie is the weakest second mate. Cracker is the weakest third mate.


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## Furinji Saiga (Jul 18, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> 01. Kaido
> 02. Akainu
> 03. Blackbeard
> 04. Mihawk & Shanks
> ...



This list is missing something. 
I cant put my fingers on it,  unless you have his name on there but its too bright for us mortals to see or even comprehend!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ruse (Jul 18, 2019)

Kaido
Shanks
Mihawk
Akainu
Dragon
Blackbeard
Big Mom
———
Aokiji
Kizaru
Fujitora
Green bull
———
Garp
Rayleigh
Sengoku
Kong
———
Luffy
Ben Beckmann
Marco
Katakuri
King
Sabo

———
Jozu
Queen
Weevil
Smoothie


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## MO (Jul 18, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> This list is missing something.
> I cant put my fingers on it,  unless you have his name on there but its too bright for us mortals to see or even comprehend!


Kizaru really has that predator look.


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## Tenma (Jul 19, 2019)

1. Im-sama
2. Kaido
3. Dragon
4/5. Mihawk
4/5. Shanks
6. Akainu
7. Big Mom
8. Teach
9. Aokiji
10. Garp

11. Kizaru
12. Rayleigh
13. Fujitora
14. Ryokugyu
15. Sengoku
16. Beckman
17. Luffy

18. Marco
19. Sabo
20. Katakuri
21. King
22. Shiryu
23. Doflamingo
24. Lucky Roo
25. Jozu


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## Flame (Jul 19, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> All the Admirals/Yonko, Mihawk and Dragon/Aokiji are in the top 1-11
> 
> After that is the Geezers, Garp , Sengoku, Rayleigh  12-14
> 
> ...


This.

Also didn't we just have a thread like this?


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## Fel1x (Jul 19, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> *(Supreme Tier)*
> 1. Im
> *(High Top Tier)*
> 2. Kaido
> ...


+- this. except Weeviil is probably high top tier and Roo is mid top tier


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Ignoring the unknown

people on same color are almost equal

*Shanks*
*Kaido*
*Big Mom*
*Teach*
*Mihawk*
*Dragon*
*Akainu*
*Kuzan*
*Kizaru*
*Fujitora *
*Green Bull*
*Garp*
*Dark King*
*Sengoku*
*Ben Beckman *
*Luffy*
*Edward.J*
*Marco*
*King*
*Karakuri*
*Lucky Roo*
*Sabo*
*Jozu*
*Yassop*
*Vista*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 19, 2019)

Furinji Saiga said:


> This list is missing something.
> I cant put my fingers on it,  unless you have his name on there but its too bright for us mortals to see or even comprehend!


Oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit.

I'd put Kizaru somewhere in-between here:

- Kizaru -
05. Big Mom
- Kizaru -
06. Dragon
- Kizaru -
07. Kuzan
- Kizaru -

As for Sabo, I think he's just below Marco/Katakuri. Hancock is below Doflamingo for sure. Magellan I think will be up there with the likes of Jack in the end. Current Lucci is a wild card, could be stronger than Katakuri or below X. Drake. The strongest CP-0 agent should be at least First Mate material, likely above.

The definitive Top-Tier ends at Sengoku or Weevil for me.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> Oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit.
> 
> I'd put Kizaru somewhere in-between here:
> 
> ...


Ben have more claim in to Top Tier than Weevil

since Ben was compered to a Yonko in terms of over all power
while Weevil only been compered to White Beard in terms of strength only


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 19, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Ben have more claim in to Top Tier than Weevil
> 
> since Ben was compered to a Yonko in terms of over all power
> while Weevil only been compered to White Beard in terms of strength only


Weevil will wreck Marco and was hyped by Kizaru to be "as strong as Whitebeard in his youth" (whatever that means) which his Vivre Card confirmed, so he could be _far higher _up that tier list for all we know.

Youth could be his teenage Rookie days, his 30s, his 40s. We don't know.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> Weevil will wreck Marco and was hyped by Kizaru to be "as strong as Whitebeard in his youth" (whatever that means) which his Vivre Card confirmed, so he could be _far higher _up that tier list for all we know.
> 
> Youth could be his teenage Rookie days, his 30s, his 40s. We don't know.



again ... in both Vivre Card and manga he was hyped to have
 "White Beard level strength  " not " as strong as Whitebeard in his youth"

White Beard power come form his 


Skill and intelligent 
his broken DF
his 3 Haki
his mad strength and endurance
his elite weapon 

Weevil only have one of this and that's physical strength ...


it's perfectly fine if some one assume he is a low top tier .... he have the hype for it .... but I just wanted to mention how legit is his claim


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 19, 2019)

MO said:


> the SC are truly undderrated.


Big Mom has SO MANY kids and mid commanders that I can't see the Sweet Generals being above the Calamities, Whitebeard's or Shanks' trio. I am open to the possibility of Katakuri, Marco and King being equals, though.

Snack, Perospero, Compote, Amande, Tamago and like 30 other strong people while Shanks only has a core of like 10 people, Whitebeard 14~16 and Kaido no more than 9(!).


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 19, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> again ... in both Vivre Card and manga he was hyped to have
> "White Beard level strength  " not " as strong as Whitebeard in his youth"
> 
> White Beard power come form his
> ...


I'm going to have to check the original Japanese wording myself before I trust any fan translation. Even Cnet and Stephen have used flowery wording in the past that deviated from the original meaning.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> I'm going to have to check the original Japanese wording myself before I trust any fan translation. Even Cnet and Stephen have used flowery wording in the past that deviated from the original meaning.


great ... call me about what you found


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## Exping -- Tier Specialist (Jul 19, 2019)

1.shanks
2.akainu
3.blackbeard
4.kaido
5.dragon
6.Post TS Enel
7. Mihawk / Aokiji (2 leg)
8.Benn Beckman
9.Marco
10.Aokiji (1 leg)
11.Kizaru
12.Rayleigh / Lucky Roo/ jozu (2 arm)
13.Vista / yassop
14. Garp
15. Big Mom
16.Fujitora
17.Sengoku
18. green bull
19.Sabo
20.katakuri/king
21.jozu (1 arm)
22.Shiryuu
23.King/katakuri
24.hancock
25./shanks unamed crewmate/crocodile/jinbe/weevil/cracker/kid

not sure about the other VAs other than garp and didn't include luffy and Im


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> 1.shanks
> 2.akainu
> 3.blackbeard
> 4.kaido
> ...


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> 1.shanks
> 2.akainu
> 3.blackbeard
> 4.kaido
> ...


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## Exping (Jul 19, 2019)

blackbeard said sengoku and garps era was over when WB died.

its 2 years later garp is growing weaker while pre TS Vista was hanging with Mihawk. And databook says vista swordsmanship is able to compete with Mihawk and Mihawk knows and acknowledges Vista saying he would be a fool if he didn't know the best swordsmen in WB pirates.


either way its very close between them


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> blackbeard said sengoku and garps era was over when WB died.
> 
> its 2 years later garp is growing weaker while pre TS Vista was hanging with Mihawk. And databook says vista swordsmanship is able to compete with Mihawk and Mihawk knows and acknowledges Vista saying he would be a fool if he didn't know the best swordsmen in WB pirates.
> 
> ...



Vista and Yassop are said to be rivals ... they should be on same level or close


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## Exping (Jul 19, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Vista and Yassop are said to be rivals ... they should be on same level or close


interesting, I didn't know that actually

is it WB 3rd strongest and shanks 3rd strongest(possibly)

I guess now i moved lucky roo up to old rayleigh level. Lucky roo probably second strongest above yassop (3rd) on shanks crew and rival of jozu(2nd of WB)

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> interesting, I didn't know that actually
> 
> is it WB 3rd strongest and shanks 3rd strongest(possibly)
> 
> I guess now i moved lucky roo up to old rayleigh level. Lucky roo probably second strongest above yassop (3rd) on shanks crew and rival of jozu(2nd of WB)



Did this man just put lucky roo on Rayleighs level


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## Exping (Jul 19, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Did this man just put lucky roo on Rayleighs level


look again i just added something new

since yassop is vista rival (3rd strongest shanks vs 3rd strongest WB pirate) then Lucky Roo (2nd strongest red hair most likely  has to be on jozu 2nd strongest WB pirate)

and this is of course old rayleigh post ts who knows if he got weaker, is he still training to grow stronger or is he just mainting his strength by swimming to kill sea kings?


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## Law (Jul 19, 2019)

@Exping can you update your list with 2 leg Aokiji?


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## Gianfi (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> 1.shanks
> 2.akainu
> 3.blackbeard
> 4.kaido
> ...


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## Hades92 (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> look again i just added something new
> 
> since yassop is vista rival (3rd strongest shanks vs 3rd strongest WB pirate) then Lucky Roo (2nd strongest red hair most likely  has to be on jozu 2nd strongest WB pirate)
> 
> and this is of course old rayleigh post ts who knows if he got weaker, is he still training to grow stronger or is he just mainting his strength by swimming to kill sea kings?


why Enel is in top 6??...what warrants him that position??...


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## Exping (Jul 19, 2019)

Law said:


> @Exping can you update your list with 2 leg Aokiji?


there i did it

but im not sure if aokiji got stronger post ts after losing to akainu so its hard to say if his 1 leg form is stronger or weaker

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Jul 19, 2019)

1. Im
2. Mihawk
3. Shanks
4. Kaido 
5. Dragon
6. Blackbeard
7. Akainu
8. Aokiji
9. Kizaru
10. Garp 
11. Rayleigh
12. Fujitora
13. Ryokugyu
14. Big Mom
15. Sengoku
16. Zunisha
17. Ben Beckmann 
18. Lafitte
19. Boggart
20. Scopper 
21. King
22. Marco
23. Luffy
24. Zoro
25. Tsuru


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Dunno said:


> 1. Im
> 2. *Mihawk*
> 3. Shanks
> 4. Kaido
> ...



even Zoro gonna be like : that's too much hype


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## Dunno (Jul 19, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> even Zoro gonna be like : that's too much hype


Nah, it's a proper level of hype for the only living WS title holder, the only person Luffy is afraid of attacking and the brother of the FV. I could buy Kaido being stronger than him though, if the rumours are correct.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Nah, it's a proper level of hype for the only living WS title holder, the only person Luffy is afraid of attacking and the brother of the FV. I could buy Kaido being stronger than him though, if the rumours are correct.



do you really think Oda would make Mihawk stronger than any Boss and major people in the story
as of now he have NO REAL EFFECT on the plot
he is not a Boss of any arc or leader of any thing
even if he be son of Imu he still won't play a big role in the story


so why Oda should make some one the strongest among known top tiers and yet give him to real role to play

I can even deal with Mihawk as no.2 ... when other known top tiers are above him


but first Imu and than Mihawk ... and they are above rest? that's some thing Oda would do? really?


well ... it's your fame ... bet on it as you enjoy

p.s

Luffy said " I have no time " not " I fear "

Luffy don't fear 3 admirals ... let alone Mihawk


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## Dunno (Jul 19, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> do you really think Oda would make Mihawk stronger than any Boss and major people in the story
> as of now he have NO REAL EFFECT on the plot
> he is not a Boss of any arc or leader of any thing
> even if he be son of Imu he still won't play a big role in the story
> ...


Plot importance isn't the same as strength. Robin is probably more important to the plot than anyone else but Luffy, but she's not going to be beating top tiers. Big Mom and Kaido are quite insignificant in the grand scope of things, but they are still quite strong. Mihawk is the WSS, which very likely puts him above a certain Yonkou, and that's more hype than pretty much anyone else in the world has.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 19, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Plot importance isn't the same as strength. Robin is probably more important to the plot than anyone else but Luffy, but she's not going to be beating top tiers. Big Mom and Kaido are quite insignificant in the grand scope of things, but they are still quite strong. Mihawk is the WSS, which very likely puts him above a certain Yonkou, and that's more hype than pretty much anyone else in the world has.



no but active people who stand as strongest have high class of Plot importance ... I hardly can remember some one who was strongest among active member of a story and didn't had highest class of Plot importance ... at least they were a boss or a sage or some thing like that

again ... it's one thing to assume Mihawk can be above a Yonko
it's one thing to say he is above all Yonko
it's one thing to say he is above all known active characters

while story never even implied some thing NEAR that ....

I mean how many people consider Mihawk strongest among active characters among all the fandom? I doubt 2% really

there are still people who think Mihawk is not even a top tier ... stupid thing to say sure ... but not so many people if any dare call Kaido or Akainu that ... why? cause story closed they mouth ... while it still left some room to doubt to this very basic thing

again ... it's FOOLISH to say he is not among the strongest ... but Mihawk hype is not a stable level of hype ... let alone be THE strongest

if story was clearly implying that type of hype ... people are smart enough to see that ...



again I can see the logic in your mind about why Mihawk should be that high ... all I'm saying don't get your hopes high


I'm done about this ... this is what you think ... I can't do any thing


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## Corax (Jul 19, 2019)

1. Kaidou
2. Akainu
3-10. Shanks~Teach~Kizaru~Aokiji~Fujitora~Green Bull~Mihawk~BM(though really should be 11)
11-13. Ray~Garp~Sengoku.
14-25. Characters that are leagues below.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Jul 19, 2019)

1. Im/him/her/zher
2. Shanks
3. Akainu
4. Dragon
5. Kaido
6. Mihawk
7. Blackbeard
8. Kizaru
9. Big Mom
10. Garp

cba to do the rest. 

Obviously Kaido/Big Mom would be way higher if you just take them at their best, but both are so unreliable that that I see the characters above them being able to outmaneuver them with just a little bit of prep.


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## Turrin (Jul 19, 2019)

Too little information to say an exact Top 25.

But I can break down my thoughts.

Let’s start first with whose the strongest?

The manga suggests that it’s Kaidou but only in the sense that people say always bet on Kaidou; this makes me believe it a situation where Kaidou is believed to be the strongest but actually isn’t. Also doubt Kaidou is the strongest since he is being delt with so early on. Rather it’s characters whose powers are lesser known that are the strongest. In this category we have:

Shanks whose abilities may be secret considering his strange tie to WG; and BB who has some secret power that allowed him to eat 2 DF. We also have Imu Sama whose existence is secret; and we have Dragon whose abilities are largely secret as well. I’d also throw Kong into the mix as his abilities are unknown as well.

So chances are the strongest currently is:

Kong, Dragon, IM, BB, or Shanks; I also believe them to be the Top 5, presently.

After them I’d say you have the known legends like Kaidou, Mom, Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Raleigh, Mihawk, Sengoku, Garp, and Marco is which make up the rest of the Top 15

Then you have the guys that are borderline line legends like Sabo, Fujitora, Greenbull; and then a few others that are debatably on that level like King, Ben, 7TH Warlord, Kuma, Boa, Gorosei, CP0 Top Brass, Jozu, Vista, Tsuru 

Some combo of them probably rounds out the last members of the 25.


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## Shiroryu (Jul 19, 2019)

Exping said:


> 1.shanks
> 2.akainu
> 3.blackbeard
> 4.kaido
> ...


I would tell you to go into comedy, but your jokes aren’t funny


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## MO (Jul 19, 2019)

Dunno said:


> 1. Im
> 2. Mihawk
> 3. Shanks
> 4. Kaido
> ...


putting zoro above katakuri? putting zoro above any Sc?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dunno (Jul 19, 2019)

MO said:


> putting zoro above katakuri? putting zoro above any Sc?


We'll see how much help he needs to beat King. He might need a decent amount of help, in which case he's probably weaker than Katakuri, or he might solo, in which case he's most likely stronger than him.


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## Exping (Jul 19, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> I would tell you to go into comedy, but your jokes aren’t funny


same


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## CaptainCommander (Jul 19, 2019)

1.Kaido
2. Akainu
3, Akainu
4. Akainu
5. Akainu
6. Akainu
7. Akainu
8. Akainu
.
.
.
.
.
.
25. Buggy


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## Gotenks92 (Jul 20, 2019)

Kaido
Dragon
Blackbeard 
Akainu/Garp (Garp=healthy wb)
Shanks/Mihawk 
Big Mom/Aokiji
Kizaru
Ryokugyu 
Sengoku
Fujitora 
King
Rayleigh 
Queen (1.320b )
Marco
Shiryu
Current Sabo
Ben
Katakuri 
Weevil (could be higher)
Luffy
Kid
Jack
Lucky Roo
Smoothie/Kyoshiro
Vista

Reactions: Like 2


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## Eliyua23 (Jul 20, 2019)

1. World Government Major Villains(Kong)
2. Dragon 
3. Shanks 
4. BB 
5. Akainu(Current)
6. Mihawk/IM
7. Kaido
8. Color Trio(Minus Akainu)
9. Big Mom 
10. Marco 
11. Rayleigh 
12. Garp
13: Fujitora 
14. Sabo 
15. Sengoku 
16: Shanks(Crew)
17. Kaido(Crew)
18. Luffy 
19. Big Mom(Crew)
20. Ace

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jul 20, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Plot importance isn't the same as strength. Robin is probably more important to the plot than anyone else but Luffy, but she's not going to be beating top tiers. Big Mom and Kaido are quite insignificant in the grand scope of things, but they are still quite strong. Mihawk is the WSS, which very likely puts him above a certain Yonkou, and that's more hype than pretty much anyone else in the world has.



Plot importance is very much connected to strength because in a battle focused manga the most important characters are typically also the strongest. Just look at Luffy and Roger for example. The whole story is focused on them and accordingly they will become the strongest. Robin isn't a very good comparison because her role isn't combat related.


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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

Dunno said:


> 1. Im
> 2. Mihawk
> 3. Shanks
> 4. Kaido
> ...


Ray,Fuji and Greenbull above Big Mom?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

Top 25 is to annoying i will just do a top ten.

Kaidou
Mihawk
Akainu
Shanks
Dragon
Big Mom
Black-Beard
Kizaru
Aokiji
Green Bull/Fuji

I'm sama could easily be in the top ten same goes for the Gorosei but they could also not be so im just going to leave them all off entirely.

EDIT: Feel like i need to stress that the gaps between these characters are extremely small so small that match-ups could easily decide the victor BB might beat Dragon for example but lose to Shanks still due to match-up. Also on the topic of BB i could easily see him being as far as number 2 right now. The reason i put him so low is because i believe he is a dynamic villian and as such he will continue to grow at a reasonable pace i also support the theory he will get a third devil fruit. So BB is a wild card so don't get to mad i put him so low XD its only for now anyway after he kills shanks of course he automatically goes into the top 2.


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## Dunno (Jul 20, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Plot importance is very much connected to strength because in a battle focused manga the most important characters are typically also the strongest. Just look at Luffy and Roger for example. The whole story is focused on them and accordingly they will become the strongest. Robin isn't a very good comparison because her role isn't combat related.


The story isn't focused on Roger at all. The guy hasn't impacted it in any important way, other than as part of the setting by starting the pirate age. You could just as well have had any other explanation. He hasn't even served as Luffy's role model, because that was Shanks. Shanks, Garp, Mihawk, Crocodile and Rayleigh have all had more importance to the story than Roger, and he's still stronger than them. In which other battle focused mangas were the most important characters the strongest? In Naruto, the most important people were Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, and Madara and Kaguya was still stronger than all of them. In Dragon Ball, the most important characters are Goku and Vegeta, and they get punked by Buu and Vegeto. In Bleach, the most important characters are Ichigo, Aizen and Urahara, and that Quincy guy is stronger than all of them. There is some correlation between strength and some level of plot importance, but it's not linear.

The FV will no doubt be one of the strongest characters, but the other important people are not given the benefit of the doubt over others. Frieza isn't stronger Android 16 simply because he plays a larger role, and [insert arc enemy of choice] isn't stronger than Mihawk for that reason either.



Acnologia said:


> Ray,Fuji and Greenbull above Big Mom?



People who haven't been one-shot twice by Yonkou commanders > People who have been one-shot twice by Yonkou commanders.


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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The story isn't focused on Roger at all. The guy hasn't impacted it in any important way, other than as part of the setting by starting the pirate age. You could just as well have had any other explanation. He hasn't even served as Luffy's role model, because that was Shanks. Shanks, Garp, Mihawk, Crocodile and Rayleigh have all had more importance to the story than Roger, and he's still stronger than them. In which other battle focused mangas were the most important characters the strongest? In Naruto, the most important people were Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, and Madara and Kaguya was still stronger than all of them. In Dragon Ball, the most important characters are Goku and Vegeta, and they get punked by Buu and Vegeto. In Bleach, the most important characters are Ichigo, Aizen and Urahara, and that Quincy guy is stronger than all of them. There is some correlation between strength and some level of plot importance, but it's not linear.
> 
> The FV will no doubt be one of the strongest characters, but the other important people are not given the benefit of the doubt over others. Frieza isn't stronger Android 16 simply because he plays a larger role, and [insert arc enemy of choice] isn't stronger than Mihawk for that reason either.
> 
> ...


Who the heck was able to oneshot BM?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Who the heck was able to oneshot BM?



King and Queen

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Jul 20, 2019)

1)Im
2)Kaido
3)Shanks
4)Big Mom
5)Akainu
6)Blackbeard (will be Strongest Yonko soon though)
7)MF Aokiji
8)Kizaru
9)Fujitora
10)Greenbull 
11)MF Garp
12)MF Sengoku
13)SA Rayleigh
14)Sabo
15)Luffy
16)Ben Beckmann
17)Marco
18)King
19)Katakuri
20)Lucky Roo

Left out some unkowns like Dragons, Gorosei etc

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (Jul 20, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> King and Queen


Heard that sometimes, but no one ever shows a panel of Queen or King KOing BM


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Heard that sometimes, but no one ever shows a panel of Queen or King KOing BM

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hades92 (Jul 20, 2019)

lol at Mihawk being relevant to story more than Roger.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Jul 20, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Who the heck was able to oneshot BM?





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> King and Queen


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## Gianfi (Jul 20, 2019)

All I see is King attacking a ship climbing up a waterfall. I want to see a panel of King and BM fighting, and BM losing, not a panel of King attacking a ship, I already know he is stronger than a ship. I’ll also wait for a panel of Queen beating BM as well since you mentioned him too

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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> King and Queen


King table fliped the Ship.The result was that BM falls down the waterfall and lost her mind

She just fell asleep against queen after THIS panel:

He shit his pants.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> All I see is King attacking a ship climbing up a waterfall. I want to see a panel of King and BM fighting, and BM losing, not a panel of King attacking a ship, I already know he is stronger than a ship. I’ll also wait for a panel of Queen beating BM as well since you mentioned him too



I see big mom falling into the water aka one shot by kings attack. 

She could of stopped king right? Oh wait she couldn't cause he was to fast. No need for excuses king took out the big mom pirates fair and square. 

Also go read the one piece chapter from 3 weeks ago. At the end of the chapter you will see big mom unconscious due to Queens headbutt.


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## Bogard (Jul 20, 2019)

Top 25 alive

1- Kaido / Blackbeard - Kaido is known as the strongest living, however Blackbeard is known for hiding his power in the shadows. He was already a yonko a year ago and is part of the worst generation who keep improving, so i'm not sure if Blackbeard already surpassed him at this point. Also judging by the pacing of the manga, with Oda already involving Shanks against a certain pirate in the middle of the Wano war, i would not be surprised if he was defeated by Blackbeard during or shortly after Wano

2- Dragon / Akainu / Mihawk - This one is tough. In terms of power-ranking, Akainu is a little stronger than Kuzan. On the other hand, Mihawk was having legendary duels with yonko Shanks before ultimately gaining the WSS over him after he lost his arm, suggesting him to be a little stronger than Shanks. So it'd depend on how Kuzan and Shanks compare to each other. In Dragon's case however while he is featless, he is known as the leader of the faction trying to overthrow the world government, so grouping these 3 for now until more info

3- Big Mom / Kuzan / Shanks - Kuzan and Shanks' placement are relative to what i stated above. Big Mom on the other hand was hyped to be a potential admiral or fleet admiral in young age and she had no devil fruit at that point, although she may have also gotten marine training which she didn't receive as a pirate. Furthermore, she demolished Queen, a feat top tiers weren't easily accomplishing in the war without distractions. Though on the other hand, Queen could withstand her attacks, so in the end it makes it debatable to me concerning this group

4- Kizaru / Fujitora / Greenbull - Kizaru had comparable portrayal to his color trio group pretimeskip, notably during the war of the best. He even got Marco as his opponent when Kuzan had Jozu. However Kuzan defeated Jozu(although with distraction) when Kizaru didn't do the same to Marco even with a vice-admiral help. Of course, there is the difference in power as well as nature of attacks against their opponents that played a role, but besides that, i believe Akainu and Kuzan always had slightly better portrayal than him through their antagnist motto, which even were the motivations behind his own motto(according to latest vivre card), with them being fleet admiral candidate as well. For Fujitora / Greenbull, it's probably a bit controversial, but i don't think they are weaker than the color trio, or at least not Kizaru because it was mentioned the marines became a stronger army of justice under Sakazuki, eventhough i believe it was more referring to ruthlessness and mindset. But there is also the fact that we are at the greatest age of piracy, so it would not make sense story-wise for the marines to have weaker admirals and so far Fujitora's portrayal always went with Greenbull, suggesting them to be comparable in power, a discussion they even had when they met in the reverie

5- Old Garp - I believe Garp and Sengoku were always portrayed to be comparable in power, starting from Garp's continuous refusal of the admiral title when Sengoku was already an admiral, becoming fleet admiral later, Garp chasing Roger when Sengoku was chasing Shiki, both of them fighting Shiki in MF, with the latest vivre card news talking about Sengoku's color of conqueror. However i think Garp has a slight edge in portrayal with the Rox event, and since they both were active for around the same amount of time, i see nothing suggesting it changed. Sengoku could even hold Garp in place in MF, with Garp telling him to keep doing that otherwise he would aim for Sakazuki

6- Old Sengoku / Old Rayleigh - As mentioned above, i think old Sengoku is slightly below old Garp. In Rayleigh's case however, he is hyped as a haki master, literally appearing in almost every haki explanation, having the most advanced hardening haki, hyped by Garp to be so dangerous they must avoid him when the Whitebeard danger is already there, also implied to have been able to hold off Kizaru, Sentoumaru, Kuma and the Pacifistas by himself in his prime. Only losing out because of old age and stamina issues. Also has been less active than active marines like Garp and Sengoku

7- Marco / Beckman - Latest vivre card hyped Beckman as comparable to Shanks. However it's possible it more meant in terms of leadership as the vice-captain because the balance of power between yonkos wouldn't make that much sense if the red hair pirates had 2 top tiers in the crew. However i do think it hyped Beckman to be closer to top tiers than the rest of yonko commanders bar Marco. In Marco's case, he was also hyped by the gorosei to be one of the guys capable to stop Blackbeard's way to yonko and although his group got crushed, Blackbeard still needed to call a huge amount of reinforcements to assure his victory, said victory which was the key decision for the world to acknowledge him as yonko

8- Luffy / Katakuri / King - At the moment there is no way to differenciate this lot. Luffy and Katakuri were already mentioned to be comparable and Katakuri is known as undefeated when there is a conflict between Big Mom and Kaido, suggesting he wasn't defeated even while fighting the beast pirates. On the other hand, Kaido is wanting to have the strongest crew in existence and King is his strongest subordinate. He also had good portrayal against Big Mom's crew, with Smoothie and the rest staying as sitting ducks in the sea to avoid him. I think though that Luffy is on his way to be stronger when he'd be able to use advanced haki which is much more powerful than his normal haki and thus increase considerably his damage output

9- Queen / Jozu / Sabo / Lucky Roo - Queen so far is portrayed to be closer to King than Smoothie was to Katakuri. Furthermore, i found his durability against Big Mom pretty impressive considering that attack was shaking Udon, and we're learning even more and more about his lethal weapons, which are very dangerous to deal with.In Jozu's case however, he held his own better than Queen against Kuzan, who needed a distraction to finish him. But i think outside of that, it's pretty hard to rate them. As for Sabo, Doflamingo didn't see him as a threat during the dressrosa event, giving him the same number of stars as Luffy and Law, although he didn't have the mera at that point, which boosted to the point of going from mid-high diffing Burgess to low-mid diffing him, a Burgess who should be comparable to the lower end of yonko commanders. I believe with more training, he will get stronger, but he didn't have time to do so after Blackbeard destroyed their base. The fact his bounty is also so low(almost triple less than Luffy's) when he is known as second in revo, where Dragon is known as the most dangerous criminal is also making me dubious about his strength comparatively to anyone higher, hence i put him here for now. Lucky Roo is placed here due to his position in Shanks' crew

10- Vista / Smoothie  - Vista wasn't portrayed to be that far below Marco and Jozu in the war, clashing with Mihawk and fighting Akainu alongside with Marco, both top tiers acknowledging him and i believe the Whitebeard pirates in general are stronger than their counterparts because they weren't affected by the balance of power. Still giving Smoothie some benefit of doubt despite her non impressive showings in WCI where i believe she was considerably held back simply because she is portrayed as stronger than Cracker. She probably also will shine this arc, showing her worth

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## Gianfi (Jul 20, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I see big mom falling into the water aka one shot by kings attack.
> 
> She could of stopped king right? Oh wait she couldn't cause he was to fast. No need for excuses king took out the big mom pirates fair and square.
> 
> Also go read the one piece chapter from 3 weeks ago. At the end of the chapter you will see big mom unconscious due to Queens headbutt.


Due to Queen’s headbutt? You are literally telling me lies, why would you do that? And again no, that’s King vs ship climbing up a waterfall, I want King vs BM. And I also want you providing me with a panel of Queen KOing BM, otherwise you are just spitting bullshits


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

Gianfi said:


> Due to Queen’s headbutt? You are literally telling me lies, why would you do that? And again no, that’s King vs ship climbing up a waterfall, I want King vs BM. And I also want you providing me with a panel of Queen KOing BM, otherwise you are just spitting bullshits



1. Queen hits big mom in the head
2. Big mom says her head hurts
3. Big mom falls to the ground

1+1+1=3.

Go reread the chapter I'm not looking for panels you know dame well what happend in a chapter from last month

The big mom pirates were actively engaged in fending off attacks from kaidous crew. They were successful until king showed up. Big mom saw him coming but was to slow to stop him that's big mom's fat ass fault for being to slow. King took out big mom fair and square.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 20, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The story isn't focused on Roger at all. The guy hasn't impacted it in any important way, other than as part of the setting by starting the pirate age. You could just as well have had any other explanation. He hasn't even served as Luffy's role model, because that was Shanks. Shanks, Garp, Mihawk, Crocodile and Rayleigh have all had more importance to the story than Roger, and he's still stronger than them. In which other battle focused mangas were the most important characters the strongest? In Naruto, the most important people were Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi, and Madara and Kaguya was still stronger than all of them. In Dragon Ball, the most important characters are Goku and Vegeta, and they get punked by Buu and Vegeto. In Bleach, the most important characters are Ichigo, Aizen and Urahara, and that Quincy guy is stronger than all of them. There is some correlation between strength and some level of plot importance, but it's not linear.
> 
> The FV will no doubt be one of the strongest characters, but the other important people are not given the benefit of the doubt over others. Frieza isn't stronger Android 16 simply because he plays a larger role, and [insert arc enemy of choice] isn't stronger than Mihawk for that reason either.
> 
> ...



Obviously you can't expect that to apply to *every character *but to deny that there is a clear correlation is just wrong. To make it simple look at Luffy and Zoro. They are the protagonist and Deuter agonist and accordingly they always fight the strongest and second strongest of the enemy's crew. Look at Usopp and Nami they are mostly dude characters and accordingly are treated like side characters power wise and fight against other side characters. Mihawk is one of the stronger characters but "only" the benchmark of the deuteragonist so we can already predict that there will be some Luffy rivals who are stronger than him because Mihawk is simply not required to be stronger than them. Things like that you have to keep in mind.


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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Queen hits big mom in the head
> 2. Big mom says her head hurts
> 3. Big mom falls to the ground
> 
> ...


By your logic is King>Ship>BM...

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## Dunno (Jul 20, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Obviously you can't expect that to apply to *every character *but to deny that there is a clear correlation is just wrong. To make it simple look at Luffy and Zoro. They are the protagonist and Deuter agonist and accordingly they always fight the strongest and second strongest of the enemy's crew. Look at Usopp and Nami they are mostly dude characters and accordingly are treated like side characters power wise and fight against other side characters. Mihawk is one of the stronger characters but "only" the benchmark of the deuteragonist so we can already predict that there will be some Luffy rivals who are stronger than him because Mihawk is simply not required to be stronger than them. Things like that you have to keep in mind.


I agree that Luffy will be stronger than Zoro come EoS, and that his last boss needs to be stronger than Zoro's. I don't agree that Luffy second to last or third to last needs to be stronger than Zoro's though. They will most likely be more relevant to the plot than Zoro's last boss, but they will still be weaker because Zoro won't be that much weaker than Luffy. Now I like Zoro and all, but I wouldn't say that he's the second most important SH when it comes to driving the plot. Post-TS, Sanji has been plot-driving a lot more than Zoro for example. What matters is the specific role that a character has. Im isn't going to be the strongest because he's the most relevant character to the story, he's going to be the strongest specifically because he has the role of FV.

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## Critical Mindset (Jul 20, 2019)

1. Kaido
2. Dragon (Im)
3. Blackbeard
4. Akainu
5. Shanks
6. Kizaru / Aokiji
7. Mihawk
8. Dory / Brogy
9. Big Mom / Garp
10.King
11.Kong
12. Marco / Issho
13. Beckman
14. Jozu (2 arms) / Vista
15. Rayleigh / Sengoku
16. 2 admiral candidates
17. Katakuri / Doflamingo
18. Current Enel
19. Shillew
20. Luffy
21. Kuma / Magellan
22. Jack (Jack is going to be stronger than Queen at the end of the day)
23. Kid
24. Yasopp / Lucky Roo
25. Smoothie / BB second strongest (I think either Vasco Shot, Pizzaro or Sanjuan wolf)


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## Flame (Jul 21, 2019)

Critical Mindset said:


> 1. Kaido
> 2. Dragon (Im)
> 3. Blackbeard
> 4. Akainu
> ...


I expected Exping to put Enel so high but now another one? What's up with the Enel wank?

Also what the hell Drory and Brogy are doing there? Honestly first time I see someone thinking so highly of them lol


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## Hades92 (Jul 21, 2019)

Enel is overrated

Reactions: Like 1


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## Critical Mindset (Jul 23, 2019)

Flame said:


> I expected Exping to put Enel so high but now another one? What's up with the Enel wank?
> 
> Also what the hell Drory and Brogy are doing there? Honestly first time I see someone thinking so highly of them lol



Enel has such an op power with awesome aoe and his observation is amazing. Enel will rank high imo. 

Dory and Brogy are I think admiral and even yonko level. They produced a tremendously powerful attack that far surpassed anything BM showed, in apite of the fact that their weapons were so rusty and worn out that they shattered upon impact. With high grade blades they'd be even more powerful. They said they can cut anything (anything but the "red serpent"). Dory and Brogy should rank high


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## Red Admiral (Jul 23, 2019)

Critical Mindset said:


> Enel has such an op power with awesome aoe and his observation is amazing. Enel will rank high imo.
> 
> *Dory and Brogy are I think admiral and even yonko level*. They produced a tremendously powerful attack that far surpassed anything BM showed, in apite of the fact that their weapons were so rusty and worn out that they shattered upon impact. With high grade blades they'd be even more powerful. They said they can cut anything (anything but the "red serpent"). Dory and Brogy should rank high




why people try to hype the shit out of people with no real hype and feat and value ?

they can cut anything? even Big mom and Kaido?

self claimed shit don't matter ... Sentomaru said he have the strongest guard in the world ... so what? should be take that as a fact too?

Reactions: Like 1


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## barreltheif (Jul 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> why people try to hype the shit out of people with no real hype and feat and value ?
> they can cut anything? even Big mom and Kaido?
> self claimed shit don't matter ... Sentomaru said he have the strongest guard in the world ... so what? should be take that as a fact too?



Sentomaru does have the best defense in the world: CoA.
I don't know the best translation of what Dorry and Brogy said, but my sense was that they were saying that they could cut the goldfish, and that the only creature they encountered that they couldn't was the serpent.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 23, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Sentomaru does have the best defense in the world: CoA.
> I don't know the best translation of what Dorry and Brogy said, but my sense was that they were saying that they could cut the goldfish, and that the only creature they encountered that they couldn't was the serpent.



he said strongest ... don't try to twist things ... people make false claim all over one piece ... we have 10s of them 

Dorry and Brogy wasn't around for 100 years ... so they never got to even see a top tier that we know ... I like those two and I think he would get good hype in Elbaf arc .... but compere them with Admirals and Yonko? that's just stupid

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## barreltheif (Jul 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> he said strongest ... don't try to twist things ... people make false claim all over one piece ... we have 10s of them



Right, Sentomaru has the strongest defense in the world. The strongest defense is CoA.
There certainly are false claims made by people throughout One Piece, such as Krieg's claim to be the strongest man in the world.



> Dorry and Brogy wasn't around for 100 years ... so they never got to even see a top tier that we know ... I like those two and I think he would get good hype in Elbaf arc .... but compere them with Admirals and Yonko? that's just stupid



Right...did you read my post? I'm not sure why you're telling me this.


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## Critical Mindset (Jul 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> he said strongest ... don't try to twist things ... people make false claim all over one piece ... we have 10s of them
> 
> Dorry and Brogy wasn't around for 100 years ... so they never got to even see a top tier that we know ... I like those two and I think he would get good hype in Elbaf arc .... but compere them with Admirals and Yonko? that's just stupid



Oda had them isolated on a remote island to not upset the world balance that would later arise between the Rox, Roger, Whitebeard, yonkos etc. For story purposes it was necessary to have them remain there. But point is, their back story said the power of Dory and Brogy "insurmountable" by the likes of men and they were virtually unstoppable back then. They also showcased far greater DC than BM ever showed and, no, I think we should believe the, when they say "anything". Sentomaru probably hinted to him having advanced CoA defence, the "best" there is, not that he has the greatest defence, obviously



barreltheif said:


> Sentomaru does have the best defense in the world: CoA.
> I don't know the best translation of what Dorry and Brogy said, but my sense was that they were saying that they could cut the goldfish, and that the only creature they encountered that they couldn't was the serpent.



That is either them referring to the Red Line or possibly Kaido (thought the manga made him blue so it may not be him)


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## barreltheif (Jul 23, 2019)

Critical Mindset said:


> That is either them referring to the Red Line or possibly Kaido (thought the manga made him blue so it may not be him)



Nah. It's obviously not Kaido. Unless Kaido is hundreds of years old, they wouldn't even know about him.
It could maybe be the red line (yes, I know the theories on this), but the simplest explanation is just that they were comparing the goldfish to some stronger creature they once fought, possibly near Elbaf.


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## Critical Mindset (Jul 23, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Nah. It's obviously not Kaido. Unless Kaido is hundreds of years old, they wouldn't even know about him.
> It could maybe be the red line (yes, I know the theories on this), but the simplest explanation is just that they were comparing the goldfish to some stronger creature they once fought, possibly near Elbaf.



Yeah possibly, well whatever that "Red Serpent" is its not going to be your run-of-the-mill sea king or whatever, and that goldfish was probably one of the the biggest if not the biggest sea king seen so far. But actually it all ties back into Norse Mytnolgy (Elbaf = Vikings) where they believed the great snake Jörmungandr was so large that it encircled the earth and could grasp its tail, so I always assumed their way of putting their Elbaf/Viming spin on it is actually the Red Line they were referring to (and Oda loves Vikings apparently and they're Vikings after all so it's no stretch to see where he got the inspiration from)


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## Red Admiral (Jul 23, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Right, Sentomaru has the strongest defense in the world. The strongest defense is CoA.



as far as the translation I read he called himself the one who have strongest defense in the world

as if he is the strongest in the defense

not that he is using the strongest  defense in the world as you said

but I can't remember Viz ... I need to reread to see


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## Kurohige (Jul 25, 2019)

Current and Alive.

1.   Kaido
2.   Big mom
3.   Akainu
4.   Blackbeard
5.   Shanks (not sure)
6.   Kuzan
7.   Kizaru
8.   Fujitora
9.   Greenbull (most likely)
10. Mihawk (not sure)
11. Garp / Dragon / IM(not sure)
12. *Kyoshiro (my dark horse)*
12. Luffy / Any of the CP-0 members / Rayleigh
13. Ben Beckman (most likely)
14. Katakuri
15. Marco
16. King (not sure)
17. Shiryu (not sure)
18. Queen
19. Weevil / Sengoku
20. Smoothie (not sure)
21. Cracker
22. Doflamingo
23. Jack / Ashura
24. Kidd / Dog&Cat
25 .Vista / Zoro / Sanji

I'm not really sure about a few because: Lack of feats etc. Also guys like Rayleigh and Garp became older which means that they dropped a bit in terms of power.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jul 25, 2019)

Kurohige said:


> Current and Alive.
> 
> 1.   Kaido
> 2.   Big mom
> ...



too much hype for CP0 ... so every dude over there is stronger than Marco or Ben Beckman? 

too much faith in them really


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## CaptainCommander (Jul 25, 2019)

Im
Shenron
Meme
Mihawk
Shanks
Zehahah
Dragon
Garp
Kong
SenGoku
Five Elders
.
.
.
.
The rest


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## Kurohige (Jul 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> too much hype for CP0 ... so every dude over there is stronger than Marco or Ben Beckman?
> 
> too much faith in them really



Maybe, maybe not.. I would not understand that Lucci for example be not atleast be first mate level.
He is also a newcomer in the strongest assasingroup of the world gov.

Have to place them so where.. Dressrosa.. WCI.. The world gov. even send them to Wano.

I have faith in them being super strong


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## Red Admiral (Jul 26, 2019)

Kurohige said:


> Maybe, maybe not.. I would not understand that Lucci for example be not atleast be first mate level.
> He is also a newcomer in the strongest assasingroup of the world gov.
> 
> Have to place them so where.. Dressrosa.. WCI.. The world gov. even send them to Wano.
> ...



that's your money to bet ...


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## Nox (Jul 26, 2019)

Kaido

Shanks
Akainu
Dragon
Teach

Kuzan
Greenbull
Fujitora
Kizaru
Linlin
Mihawk

Garp
Rayleigh
Sengoku

Marco
Luffy
Beckman
King
Katakuri
Shillew 
Sabo

Queen
Jozu
Smoothie
Vista
Red = Characters than can be switched around with individual directly above/below them.


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## Santoryu (Jul 27, 2019)

you included sabo but no zoro?


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## Red Admiral (Jul 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> you included sabo but no zoro?


short answer : yes
longer answer : just yes


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## silverfire (Jul 27, 2019)

1. Teach
2. Kaido
3. Sakazuki
4. Dragon
5. Kizaru
6. Mihawk
7. Shanks
8. Kuzan
9. Ryokugu
10. Big Mom
11. Fujitora
12. Garp
13. Rayleigh
14. Sengoku
15. Beckmann
16. Shiryuu
17. Marco
18. Luffy
19. Sabo
20. King
21. Katakuri
22. Lucky Roo
23. Doflamingo
24. Vista
25. Queen


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## silverfire (Jul 27, 2019)

Critical Mindset said:


> Enel has such an op power with awesome aoe and his observation is amazing. Enel will rank high imo


Recall how shocked Enel was by one of base Luffy’s, non-gear, non-haki shots connecting. Now imagine what a G4 hit would do to him. 

Enel’s fruit is top-tier and he’s probably improved during the timeskip but he’d still be only marginally better than someone like Caesar in the New World. His CoO is good, but it would take much more training to get up to the point where he could shape shift around attacks like Katakuri or the logia admirals, meaning he’d still be weak against most haki users.

And that would only help keep him alive. He’s never faced another logia user in his life, and he’d quickly find that they’re resistant to his coa-less attacks. So that’s one other thing he’d need to master. Luffy had to be tutored by a living legend for close to a year to even get this part down, Enel wouldn’t be able to find such guidance on the moon.


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## Silver2195 (Jul 30, 2019)

1. Im
2. Kaido
3. Blackbeard
4. Big Mom
5. Mihawk
6. Shanks
7. Akainu
8. Dragon
9. Kizaru
10. Fujitora
11. Green Bull
12. Garp
13. Rayleigh
14. Sengoku
15. Aokiji
16. Sabo
17. Prince Loki
18. Zunisha
19. Weevil
20. Beckman
21. Shiliew
22. King
23. Luffy
24. Marco
25. Katakuri

I'm not particularly wedded to the exact order, and Im and Loki in particular are obviously somewhat speculative (although I must say I'm surprised no one else mentioned Loki).

Characters who barely missed the cutoff: Kong, Lucky Roux, Queen, Kidd, Vista.

Chaton and Momousagi are not included; they're stronger than the other Vice Admirals (except Garp), but the power gap between them and Fujitora/Green Bull is apparently big enough to outweigh Fujitora/Green Bull being fresh recruits in deciding who to promote. They're probably at least as strong as Ace/Jimbei but weaker than Queen/Vista.

I think people tend to overrate Dragon. He's Sabo's boss and the most wanted criminal in the world, so he's probably Admiral-level, but the lack of more direct hyping of his combat strength makes me reluctant to place him above the likes of Big Mom.


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## ImpalerDragon (Jul 30, 2019)

Love threats like that

*(Supreme Tier)*
1. Shanks
*(High Top Tier)*
2. Kaido
3. Big Mom
4. Blackbeard
7. Dragun
8. Beckman
*(Mid Top Tier)*
9. Garp
10. Rayleigh 
11. Sengoku 
12. Marco
13. Katakuri
14. King
15. Sabo
*(Low Top Tier)*
16. Shiryu
17. Luffy
18. Queen
19. Cracker
20. Jozu
21. Jack
22. Vista
23. Mihawk
24. Smoothie
25. Sakazuki

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gohara (Jul 30, 2019)

Excluding the gorosei, Im, Lady Smoothie, etc..

Shanks/Dragon.
Kaidou/Blackbeard.
Akainu/Linlin's character/Garp.  
Mihawk.
Beckman.
Shiryu.
Lord Katakuri.
Marco/Luffy/Sengoku.
Ryokugyu/Doflamingo/Sabo/Aokiji/Rayleigh/Kizaru/possibly some other high ranking yonkou commanders and revolutionary commanders/Fujitora.
Jozu.
Zoro/Kid.
Hancock.
Magellan.
Law.
Ace.

Mostly small gaps between each ranking.


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## Critical Mindset (Jul 30, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Love threats like that
> 
> *(Supreme Tier)*
> 1. Shanks
> ...



You have Akainu at 25? Lmao


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## TheWiggian (Jul 31, 2019)

Critical Mindset said:


> You have Akainu at 25? Lmao



Dude is a troll, look at that list it's obvious. Vista stronger than Mihawk and Akainu. Smoothie of all characters stronger than Sakazuki. At least Mihawk can extreme diff her


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## RayanOO (Jul 31, 2019)

My top :

1 Kaido
2 Dragon
3 Akainu/Shanks
5 Big Mom/Mihawk
7 BB (for now)
8 Kizaru
10 GreenBull/Fujitora
11 Aokiji (after injury)
12 Rayleigh
13 Ben Beckman/Marco
15 Weevil/Kata/King/Shiryu
19 Luffy/Sabo (bottom of YC1)

I don't really know where are Post TS Garp and Sengoku. Garp took a good blow with Ace death and he is semi retired now. Rayleigh is now ahead of him and Sengoku.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 1, 2019)

it's really funny how people say Kaido and Big mom have a real gap of power

Kaido ~ Big Mom is a proven fact and said many times

if people think Oda gonna give a real gap to the two you are dreaming


*the gap between Kaido and Big mom is as big as the gap between Akainu and Kuzan *


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## Gianfi (Aug 1, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> it's really funny how people say Kaido and Big mom have a real gap of power
> 
> Kaido ~ Big Mom is a proven fact and said many times
> 
> ...


Oh look, someone who reads the manga


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

I consider legends like

Dark King , Mihawk and Ryuma

above DF monsters like Dragon , Akainu and rest of Admirals

but if we get to know Bullet is above any of DFless Legends  ... I might change my whole system and go with


Kings
Yonko
Admirals/Bullet
Legendary fighters


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## Santoryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I consider legends like
> 
> Dark King , Mihawk and Ryuma
> 
> ...



How does it feel being wrong about Zoro?


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> How does it feel being wrong about Zoro?



well since Zoro is as strong as Prime Dark King ... I should consider him to be weaker than most admirals (logia admrials) even in his Prime 

if

Bullet > Dark King

and while we know

Prime Zoro ~ Dark King

and since it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY for Oda to make Bullet above Akainu

Akainu > Bullet 

so 

Akainu >~ Bullet > Dark King ~ Prime Zoro ...

so if any one ... I underrate Akainu and overrate Zoro


p.s

being WRONG? 
all we can do is to understand the info coming from Oda
power level is not up to us

call me if I ever was wrong about plot


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## Santoryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> well since Zoro is as strong as Prime Dark King ... I should consider him to be weaker than most admirals (logia admrials) even in his Prime
> 
> if
> 
> ...



I was referring to the latest movie


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> I was referring to the latest movie



I don't want to spoiled ... OJ just banned me forever cause I mentioned it 

but I can't recall what is it that I'm wrong about Zoro


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## Santoryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I don't want to spoiled ... OJ just banned me forever cause I mentioned it
> 
> but I can't recall what is it that I'm wrong about Zoro



Lol seriously?

damn didn't realise OJ was so lewd


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Lol seriously?
> 
> damn didn't realise OJ was so lewd


me too .... since they are going to be closed they banned over 100 active users for shitty reason in last 30 days


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## Law (Aug 2, 2019)

@Red Admiral Bullet>Ray? Isn't Bullet from Roger's crew?


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Law said:


> @Red Admiral Bullet>Ray? Isn't Bullet from Roger's crew?



he joined the mid way ... again 




*Spoiler*: __ 





it said that Bullet was equal to Dark King when he joined the crew and since then he train much harder

so we can assume (base on age) Bullet is above Dark King 

the info are canon

and I assume in the movie the would show Bullet just as strong as they said he would be 

so ... ya ... I hate the news as well but it is what it is


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## Law (Aug 2, 2019)

@Red Admiral Thanks for the link and the spoiler tag. I'll see how they compare after I watch the movie, if it's canon etc. 

Ray's the silver to Roger's gold, similar to how Ben is the moon to Shanks' sun. They are the VC/First Mates/Right hand men so they are supposed to be the second strongest after the captain. I seriously doubt that Bullet is even stronger than Scopper or Oden. Ray is Shanks' teacher. He's a swordsman and haki/CoC user like his pupil, so he's yonko level in his prime. Zoro will surpass Mihawk who is a rival to Shanks, who is a student of Rayleigh and the SHs will surpass the Roger crew. It'll connected. Maybe in prime Bullet is stronger than current Ray but like I said, I'll reserve my full judgement for now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Law said:


> @Red Admiral Thanks for the link and the spoiler tag. I'll see how they compare after I watch the movie, if it's canon etc.
> 
> Ray's the silver to Roger's gold, similar to how Ben is the moon to Shanks' sun. They are the VC/First Mates/Right hand men so they are supposed to be the second strongest after the captain. I seriously doubt that Bullet is even stronger than Scopper or Oden. Ray is Shanks' teacher. He's a swordsman and haki/CoC user like his pupil, so he's yonko level in his prime. Zoro will surpass Mihawk who is a rival to Shanks, who is a student of Rayleigh and the SHs will surpass the Roger crew. It'll connected. Maybe in prime Bullet is stronger than current Ray but like I said, I'll reserve my full judgement for now.



I guess DF monsters who can also use CoC (Akainu , Sengoku and Dragon)

are above legends who only can use 2 advance Haki and swordsmanship 

again ... this is me breaking some thing I had faith in for few years but if the Hype be real I need to give the hype to them

cause I really find it hard to assume Akainu would be lower than Bullet in terms of DF or Haki


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## Law (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I guess DF monsters who can also use CoC (Akainu , Sengoku and Dragon)
> 
> are above legends who only can use 2 advance Haki and swordsmanship
> 
> ...



Well Shanks and prime Ray are swordsmen. They have all 3 haki and mastered all 3. Shanks lacks an arm, but he is as strong as monsters with DF, all 3 haki, huge & strong bodies, but his master can't? I don't see that. 

Basically Ray, Mihawk, EoS Zoro can't hang with Shanks even though in their prime they may share all or almost all abilities with him (3 haki, swordsmanship) but they have both arms? If Shanks was the MC, I could see that being possible, but he isn't.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Law said:


> Well Shanks and prime Ray are swordsmen. They have all 3 haki and mastered all 3. Shanks lacks an arm, but he is as strong as monsters with DF, all 3 haki, huge & strong bodies, but his master can't? I don't see that.
> 
> Basically Ray, Mihawk, EoS Zoro can't hang with Shanks even though in their prime they may share all or almost all abilities with him (3 haki, swordsmanship) but they have both arms? If Shanks was the MC, I could see that being possible, but he isn't.



well ... here is the thing ... Dark King never showed us advance CoC feat ... if he can't do it every thing make sense

if he can ... well ... I have to put Akainu above Shanks as well unless info not be canon 

but as of now 

I see Shanks with : all 3 advance Haki + top class swordsmanship
I see Dark King , Mihawk , Zoro : 2 advance Haki + top class sworsmanship

I think advance CoC can make sense of it all


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## Law (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> well ... here is the thing ... Dark King never showed us advance CoC feat ... if he can't do it every thing make sense
> 
> if he can ... well ... I have to put Akainu above Shanks as well unless info not be canon
> 
> ...


Oda did say Shanks & Ray can knock out the 100k fishmen which Luffy knocked out 50k of. I think Ray has advanced CoC but Shanks' slightly edges him out on it.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Law said:


> Oda did say Shanks & Ray can knock out the 100k fishmen which Luffy knocked out 50k of. I think Ray has advanced CoC but Shanks' slightly edges him out on it.



yes ... but many people read that in the wrong way

Luffy can beat Katakuri
Akainu can beat Katakuri

so are they equal?

only cause both Shanks and Dark King can do the same thing it don't mean their CoC is equal

and that is the base Haki not advance Haki ...

if you look at Dark King Haki ...
Dark King can only use CoC one at the time and a very short 1 sec moment and he admit he can't do it again after he used it 3 times

while Shanks (and Big mom) can use he Haki for a* continuous amount of time *


sure ... Dark King is old now and most likley in Prime he could use his CoC for a *continuous amount of time 

*
but we have one more problem

Dark King did used Advance CoO on screen
Dark King did used Advance CoA on screen
he didn't use advance CoC on screen

making me faith lower in him



again

*if you claim "Ray has advanced CoC but Shanks' slightly edges him out on it" it make perfect sense
*

but if the info be canon ... I have room for doubt


*I mean Dark King Haki is Great ... but he don't have the type of Haki that can split the sky


p.s

god I want to kick my own ass for saying this about him*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> after this chapter ... it's official ... Admiral fan base lost the war
> 
> Mihawk fan base and Dragon are left


Mihawk pretty much has to be Prime Rayleigh level since it wouldn’t make sense for EoS Zoro vs Mihawk to be less than extreme diff


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## Turrin (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom always was Top 3
> 
> let the sky vote for power level ... he only bow to the Yonko
> 
> ...


WB couldn’t use CoC due to illness and injuries at that time; so it wouldn’t create that clash


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Turrin said:


> WB couldn’t use CoC due to illness and injuries at that time; so it wouldn’t create that clash



when your enemy is not your equal in Haki that effect won't happen
​
Dark King is no sick and ill and he can use Haki and he do clash with Kizaru

no sky split

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> when your enemy is not your equal in Haki that effect won't happen
> ​
> Dark King is no sick and ill and he can use Haki and he do clash with Kizaru


Where is it stated they need to be equals in Haki?

It’s just the typical CoC clash but between two next level characters. We’ve never seen the Admirals use CoC, so we don’t know if they can even use it; and if they can we really can’t tell anything because they didn’t use it against WB or Raleigh


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## Shiroryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Where is it stated they need to be equals in Haki?
> 
> It’s just the typical CoC clash but between two next level characters. We’ve never seen the Admirals use CoC, so we don’t know if they can even use it; and if they can we really can’t tell anything because they didn’t use it against WB or Raleigh


They can’t


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2019)

Both need to have CoC for that to happen. Though if CoC isn't strong only black sparkles will fly (Luffy vs Katakuri, Luffy vs Don Chinjao etc.).


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Where is it stated they need to be equals in Haki?
> 
> It’s just the typical CoC clash but between two next level characters. We’ve never seen the Admirals use CoC, so we don’t know if they can even use it; and if they can we really can’t tell anything because they didn’t use it against WB or Raleigh



the thing is ... what ever Yonko can do in their full power ... admirals can't 

there is other way for Oda to tell us Kaido and Big Mom are equal ... he told as many times as he could and he did showed us that

Shanks and Teach may rise the game but they won't lower it

war is over


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## Turrin (Aug 2, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the thing is ... what ever Yonko can do in their full power ... admirals can't
> 
> there is other way for Oda to tell us Kaido and Big Mom are equal ... he told as many times as he could and he did showed us that
> 
> ...


 We don’t know that; at best you can claim the Admirals can’t use CoC, which so far has been irrelevant to 1v1 combat.

When did he ever tell us they are equal? He only ever stated Kaidou is stronger, WSC and bet on him in 1v1.

I agree Shanks and Teach are stronger then Mom; and possibly even Kaidou

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 2, 2019)

Turrin said:


> We don’t know that; at best you can claim the Admirals can’t use CoC, which so far has been irrelevant to 1v1 combat.
> 
> When did he ever tell us they are equal? He only ever stated Kaidou is stronger, WSC and bet on him in 1v1.
> 
> I agree Shanks and Teach are stronger then Mom; and possibly even Kaidou


we're cool


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## Shiroryu (Aug 2, 2019)

Turrin said:


> We don’t know that; at best you can claim the Admirals can’t use CoC, which so far has been irrelevant to 1v1 combat.
> 
> When did he ever tell us they are equal? He only ever stated Kaidou is stronger, WSC and bet on him in 1v1.
> 
> I agree Shanks and Teach are stronger then Mom; and possibly even Kaidou


If all of the Yonko have CoC and none of the Admirals do, then that tells you all that you need to know


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Kaido’s and BM’s cloud splitting feat was really impressive tbh. The clouds were split so far that it dwarfed Onigashima and you can even see it forming large waves far away from the island.
> 
> And this is Kaido and BM without:
> 
> ...


Fujitora can destroy similar sized island (Dressrosa) in one asteroid attack. But I won't put him above his fellow admirals anyway. Also BM had her lows like failing to scratch Reiju by Prometheus infused punch during tea party etc. (while she was sane and healthy). I don't think that Reiju can take many Kaido's attacks and survive.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Depends on what you mean. Big Mom is close enough to Kaido that she can have a CoC clash with him, just as Shanks and WB were close enough and Luffy and Chinjao were close enough. We already knew that about Big Mom. Did you think she was gonna try to clash with Kaido and get blown away?



Oda showed Big mom and Kaido are equal in every possible way

just tell me what do you want?

a 10 days fights?

it seem no Matter what Big mom do people want to down play her


been said that she is equal to Kaido over and over and over again
3 high class YC fear at being near her and lose their shit looking at her face. same people who dare attack 2 admiral level
with no memory , Haki , DF and weapon wash up Queen and make him cry in fear
play with sea stone as if it's not even effective fore her
have no fear fighting Kaido knowing how strong Kaido is
Kaido is not capable of over powering her ... no admiral is capable of an equal clash with Kaido as far as I know


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Oda showed Big mom and Kaido are equal in every possible way
> 
> just tell me what do you want?
> 
> ...


They still have a solid point. Can you imaging non nerfed Kaido hitting Reiju and not even scratching her?And in half zoan form to boot (as BM used her DF attack)?


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> They still have a solid point. Can you imaging non nerfed Kaido hitting Reiju and not even scratching her?And in half zoan form to boot (as BM used her DF attack)?


Big Mom was playing around back then ...

not every feat is real feat

this are the same people who claim *" Mihawk and Vista "DUEL" is not a real feat"*

but call Big mom play with Reiju as a real feat ?


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## barreltheif (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Oda showed Big mom and Kaido are equal in every possible way
> just tell me what do you want?
> a 10 days fights?
> it seem no Matter what Big mom do people want to down play her
> ...



Kaido is stronger than Big Mom, just like Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks. Kaido is the strongest living thing.
None of the things you mentioned are beyond other solid top tiers.


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Big Mom was playing around back then ...
> 
> not every feat is real feat
> 
> ...


No she was enraged because tea party was ruined (and also they destroyed mother Caramel's photo). Mihawk wasn't enraged.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Kaido is stronger than Big Mom, just like Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks. Kaido is the strongest living thing.
> None of the things you mentioned are beyond other solid top tiers.



Well Old Beard above Shanks ? or any Yonko? please ... but Prime yes 

Akainu is stronger than Kuzan too ... 

but the gap is so close it's like they are almost equal


Prime Beard and Shanks
Kaido and Big Mom

have same type of gap 

and they are above the rest unless proven otherwise and trust me it won't be proven otherwise


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> No she was enraged because tea party was ruined (and also they destroyed mother Caramel's photo). Mihawk wasn't enraged.



Big mom didn't even touch her ... she just put fire in front of her and she was safe thanks to the suit

a Hakiless punch of Big Mom can pin down a YC 2 as a* fact* ... what is the argument here mate?


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Dunno said:


> 1. Im
> *2. Mihawk
> 3. Shanks*
> 4. Kaido
> ...


And I know why I did not take you seriously at all!

@Oreki and @Hades92

WSS has story wise no place to be just below Im.

And you my man, were debating me why Strongest Swordman is not strongest sword man because ODA put it there and yet you put WSS above all Yonko, Admirals, the pieces needed to be defeated to be PK the sole purpose of this story also said by ODA.

You put BM that 2shot a YC2 without haki, memory of weapons at #14 and you put WSS that was blocked by Vista ~ Queen at  #2 GTFO.

1.Im(for now)
2.EOS BB
3. Prime WB and Roger
4.Prime Garp
5.Kaido
the rest

@Red Admiral  look at that top #2 WSS


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Big mom didn't even touch her ... she just put fire in front of her and she was safe thanks to the suit
> 
> a Hakiless punch of Big Mom can pin down a YC 2 as a* fact* ... what is the argument here mate?


It was a legit named DF attack from healthy and sane mom. If you want next time her named physical punch infused by Zeus was stopped by G3 Luffy and base Sanji. Can them stop half zoan Kaido's eight trigramms?I don't think so.


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## Dunno (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> And I know why I did not take you seriously at all!
> 
> @Oreki and @Hades92
> 
> ...


How about you start making sense?


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Dunno said:


> How about you start making sense?


The fact that WSS story wise can't be above all the other top tier bar Im is more sense then I need to make dude.

You are literally wanking WSS for no reason, and this is nothing related to strongest swordman at all anymore.

You put BM that is top tier for 40 years and has one of the best feats in the manga next to Kaido at #14 and the Top Tier with the worst feats at almost the strongest  bar someone that we don't know what he is.

you even put BB at 6 LOL, what next Roger at below BM.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> And I know why I did not take you seriously at all!
> 
> @Oreki and @Hades92
> 
> ...



look a Kaido and Big Mom cause this 2 would end the battel of Yonko Vs admiral once and for all (they did already if you ask me)

and look for Shanks and Teach cause they up the game



Shanks is dumbledore of One Piece when people gonna see that? I never know


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> look a Kaido and Big Mom cause this 2 would end the battel of Yonko Vs admiral once and for all (they did already if you ask me)
> 
> and look for Shanks and Teach cause they up the game
> 
> ...


You know my game with Shanks, If I say anything about him, WSS also can do it and some more.

I will never understand why the WSS, the guy with the worst feats from a top tier is above juggernauts like Kaido, BM, monsters like Akainu and 2 DF BB.

I am not even including the gold standards Roger, Prime WB, Prime Garp or EOS BB.

This guy will give me again that Zoro dream crap ... and this is getting into pure fan fiction.

Top 10 includes:
IM
4Yonko
4 Admirals
WSS

WSS can be above some but not all 8 .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> well WSS is the only legit title...and also only stampede movie is canon....everything is just head canon


I know, the same dude, was bugging me that I don't respect the WSS title as an absolute swordsman and he then said that WSC is only are a rumor ... ok dude so you only believe in WSS, nothing new.

Oda gave him on panel WSC and 1vs1 bet on Kaido and to no make it false news he then one shot Luffy.

WSS: he is absolute, yet the VC said Vista has similar swords play skills and he was blocked by him. serious or not, Shanks never lost to him and his Yonko level is from Shanks not from the uber feats that WSS does have.

Conclusion WSS is above all current top tiers.

OT:
Top 10 includes:
IM
4Yonko
4 Admirals
WSS

WSS is top 9 for good measurement, he can also be top 5 or 3 but not above all current top tiers!


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

Despair is real for some people  
2 Yonko are going down way before EoS to non top tier characters  
"bUt thEy mOveD soMe clOudS theY aRe strOngEr thAn adMiraLs anD sHankS mIhaWk"  
Shanks / BB / Admirals / Dragon / Mihawk will look (and are) stronger


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## Hades92 (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Despair is real for some people
> 2 Yonko are going down way before EoS to non top tier characters
> "bUt thEy mOveD soMe clOudS theY aRe strOngEr thAn adMiraLs anD sHankS mIhaWk"
> Shanks / BB / Admirals / Dragon / Mihawk will look (and are) stronger


LoL...the fight between Mihawk and Zoro won't make big difference in grand scheme of things...it makes Zoro the next WSS.....however, the others you mentioned and Kaido/BigMom fall going to shake the OP world to its core....and lastly....Admirals are end game material but they are not going to be main antagonists that face Luffy....only Akainu may face Luffy....


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Despair is real for some people
> 2 Yonko are going down way before EoS to non top tier characters
> "bUt thEy mOveD soMe clOudS theY aRe strOngEr thAn adMiraLs anD sHankS mIhaWk"
> Shanks / BB / Admirals / Dragon / Mihawk will look (and are) stronger


Pro tip Kaido is tag tamed now,  1vs1  still will be above the rest.

Akainu is done by Sabo or  Dragon or maybe PK Luffy as warm up to Im the real boss of the WG.

EOS BB is done by  PK Luffy solo .

--removed spoilers--


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Despair is real for some people
> 2 Yonko are going down way before EoS to non top tier characters
> "bUt thEy mOveD soMe clOudS theY aRe strOngEr thAn adMiraLs anD sHankS mIhaWk"
> Shanks / BB / Admirals / Dragon / Mihawk will look (and are) stronger



the later you come the stronger you are ... true ... but ... this is the rule only for Bosses of the sroty

Admials were Bosses of Marine Ford ... they are solders in end war

Mihawk never was or will be a Boss

Dragon ... hmmm ... don't think so ... we not gonna have a Dragon arc


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 3, 2019)

1. Kong/Gorosei
2. IM
3. Dragon
4. Shanks
5. BB
6. Akainu
7. Mihawk
8. Kaido
9. Big Mom 
10,Ray/Garp
11. Color Trio/Sengoku 
12. Marco 
13. Shanks FM
14. BB FM
15. Kaido FM
16. Luffy 
17. Fujitora 
18. Sabo
19. Boa
20. Ace 
21. Zoro


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the later you come the stronger you are ... true ... but ... this is the rule only for Bosses of the sroty
> 
> Admials were Bosses of Marine Ford ... they are solders in end war
> 
> ...



Soldiers ? Are you talking about the strongest force of the WG ? 
Final War will be way bigger than Wano's, Yonko level Luffy will fight Sakazuki / Fujitora, Ryokugyu and Kizaru will go all out / Mihawk will fight Zoro / Shanks will fight BB / Dragon vs Im 

All this shit will happen YEARS (real life time ofc) after Kaido/BM's defeat, it's not even about being bosses it's about power creep
Let's also add the fact that Shanks / BB / Admirals are Oda's favorite characters


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Yonko level Luffy will


You mean PK level Luffy will fight Im and maybe mid-high diff Akainu as a warm-up or let Sabo fist his ass.

On the other hand Zoro and Sanji will defeat Kizaru and Fujitora and those are more important than Kaido he said!

@Santoryu  is this one, one of your dupes?

Pro tip: Final war will not be years from now one in the storyline, there was a TS and that is the only one.

Extreme diff tag-teaming Kaido >>> mid-high diff solo Akainu so yes POWER CREEP much Like this Naruto or something.


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> You mean PK level Luffy will fight Im and maybe mid-high diff Akainu as a warm-up or let Sabo fist his ass.
> 
> On the other hand Zoro and Sanji will defeat Kizaru and Fujitora and those are more important than Kaido he said!
> 
> @Santoryu  is this one, one of your dupes?



Dude... 
Luffy isn't stomping the strongest character of the strongest military faction, only a hater would believe that  *Oda's words : "I will draw Sakazuki with respect" *Admirals haters : "aKainU iS a waRm Up foR  pK LuFfy"   
Fujitora isn't losing to Zoro as he will fight against WG too  
And Sanji...


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## Santoryu (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> You mean PK level Luffy will fight Im and maybe mid-high diff Akainu as a warm-up or let Sabo fist his ass.
> 
> On the other hand Zoro and Sanji will defeat Kizaru and Fujitora and those are more important than Kaido he said!
> 
> ...



 I can not believe I'm seeing a person talking to himself, it's the most pathetic thing I've seen in my 43 years of life. Lewd man strikes again.


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> movie spoilers
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Not canon right ? But I don't care if this is the Grandmaster


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Luffy isn't stomping the strongest character of the strongest military faction, only a hater would believe that


Good because Akainu is the strongest of nothing, he is 10 days extreme diff to Aokij that works for BB the real strongest antagonist



Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Luffy isn't stomping the strongest character of the strongest military faction,


Mid-high diff for not the boss of an arc is stomping for you :V.



Santoryu said:


> I can not believe I'm seeing a person talking to himself, it's the most pathetic thing I've seen in my 43 years of life. Lewd man strikes again.


Well yes, I do this from time to time, is that right @Light D Lamperouge @Soldierofficial  ?


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Soldiers ? Are you talking about the strongest force of the WG ?
> Final War will be way bigger than Wano's, Yonko level Luffy will fight Sakazuki / Fujitora, Ryokugyu and Kizaru will go all out / Mihawk will fight Zoro / Shanks will fight BB / Dragon vs Im
> 
> All this shit will happen YEARS (real life time ofc) after Kaido/BM's defeat, it's not even about being bosses it's about power creep
> Let's also add the fact that Shanks / BB / Admirals are Oda's favorite characters




strongest active force ... and yes Kong , Gorosei or Imu are the Bosses of the end war ... OBVIOUSLY
I hope it be like this ... if the planet can handle the hype 
yes but still Kaido falling before end game means he is not the strongest , it don't mean he is far from strongest. 
Shanks is Oda favorite characters ... he gave Shanks his own personality ... and Akainu too , Oda CLEARLY is a fan boy of Akainu ... and Garp maybe he like him a bit more than Shanks or Luffy ... not sure about the rest

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> strongest active force ... and yes Kong , Gorosei or Imu are the Bosses of the end war ... OBVIOUSLY
> I hope it be like this ... if the planet can handle the hype
> yes but still Kaido falling before end game means he is not the strongest , it don't mean he is far from strongest.
> Shanks is Oda favorite characters ... he gave Shanks his own personality ... and Akainu too , Oda CLEARLY is a fan boy of Akainu ... and Garp maybe he like him a bit more than Shanks or Luffy ... not sure about the rest



Only Im seems relevant, Kong is weaker than Sengoku / Garp, Gorosei is a dark horse and below Im
Luffy has no business and history with Im unlike with Sakazuki, it's Dragon's job to take care of him IMO (Boss of Revos vs Boss of WG)
Admirals are all based on Oda's favorite actors, while Sakazuki seems like his favorite, he also likes the others
He also stated that BB was his favorite character, need to find the source though


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Only Im seems relevant, Kong is weaker than Sengoku / Garp, Gorosei is a dark horse and below Im
> Luffy has no business and history with Im unlike with Sakazuki, it's Dragon's job to take care of him IMO (Boss of Revos vs Boss of WG)
> Admirals are all based on Oda's favorite actors, while Sakazuki seems like his favorite, he also likes the others
> He also stated that BB was his favorite character, need to find the source though


here is the thing

Akainu hate for Dragon is the major point in MF ... Sabo and Dragon fighting Akainu is WAY MORE likely than Luffy


and Luffy have no business and history with Im is not an argument

Luffy had no  business and history with crocodile
Luffy had no  business and history with Enel
Luffy had no  business and history with Lucci
Luffy had no  business and history with Katakuri
Luffy had no  business and history with Big Mom
Luffy had no  business and history with Doffy
Luffy had no  business and history with Caesar
Luffy had no  business and history with Kaido

but he end up fight and hating them ... you thing Oda have a hard job finding a reason for Luffy hate Imu?


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> here is the thing
> 
> Akainu hate for Dragon is the major point in MF ... Sabo and Dragon fighting Akainu is WAY MORE likely than Luffy
> 
> ...



Problem is :

Sakazuki killed Ace, destroyed Luffy mentally and physically, he's basically the BB of the Navy
Luffy will definitely fight an admiral and it has to be him

If Luffy also defeats Im, who will Dragon fight ?


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> If Luffy also defeats Im, who will Dragon fight ?


Luffy defeats Im and Dragon takes Akainu, problem solved or Akainu becomes the Blueno of the final Arc!

Zoro defeats Fujitora and you expect after BB Akainu to give him extreme diff, after he defeated a 2 awakened DF BB ...


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

It is just how power creep goes. Moriah was defeated by plot (Nightmare Luffy)+all SH combined. Moriah 2 arcs away (MF) = fodder. Doflamingo was extreme diffed by Law+gladiators+Luffy. Wano Luffy is so much above him that it isn't even funny. So yes Shanks/Mihawk/BB/awakened admirals will be stronger than Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Problem is :
> 
> Sakazuki killed Ace, destroyed Luffy mentally and physically, he's basically the BB of the Navy
> Luffy will definitely fight an admiral and it has to be him
> ...



did you see Marine Ford?

PK level Luffy need few days to beat Akainu and during last war Luffy is not PK level yet 

so what? we gonna see a few day long battle ?

or we shift fighters?

Dragon
Luffy
Garp
Sabo

all have claim and reason to fight Akainu ... so Akainu going down by one is not likely 


but again...

Akainu is not evil to begin with ... he is just a man who justly hate pirates and don't want mercy on them

if you ask me (knowing Oda Wank to Akainu) in the end of the war (last 10%) Akainu and maybe rest of Marine would fight Imu and Gorosei 

Marine are heroes of people ... they won't go down like dogs


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> It is just how power creep goes. Moriah was defeated by plot (Nightmare Luffy)+all SH combined. Moriah 2 arcs away (MF) = fodder. Doflamingo was extreme diffed by Law+gladiators+Luffy. Wano Luffy is so much above him that it isn't even funny. So yes Shanks/Mihawk/BB/awakened admirals will be stronger than Kaido.



why you add admirals ? we already had admirals on the plot as main villains !

awakened make them kill fodders more easily but it's not that effective to the major duels

we already saw Kaido and Big Mom having better feats and hype than admirals ...
are you trying to shift the whole thing ?

now that Big Mom is proven to be really equal to Kaido ... you try to make Kaido weak and not hype both of them?


Shanks and BB are above Kaido ... they have MUCH MORE plot weight on them and are the end game for pirate world as the bosses of the war

so unless Oda be in love with Kaido plot make Shanks and Teach above him in any case


Mihawk? I would stay out of this one ... I myself said it before Mihawk can be above Kaido ... but the odds are not likely ... *at least wait until he get an on screen hype before hype him to above Kaido level 
*
but Bullet thing made my faith a bit lower ... cause we should know Bullet is not Yonko , we know Bullet > Dark King ... we should know Dark King ~ Mihawk

that's why I'm saying we should wait ....

sadly Mihawk don't have a clear level of hype ... *so we need to wait for more*

his off screen hype are amazing
his on screen hype are hardly top tier


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> why you add admirals ? we already had admirals on the plot as main villains !
> 
> awakened make them kill fodders more easily but it's not that effective to the major duels
> 
> ...


Simply by that fact that awakened admirals will fight SH overstocked by buffs. For example Wano Luffy will take 60-70% Kaido himself. Next arc (Elbaf) he will receive 2-3 buffs to take on arc villain. Next arc (Raftel) he will receive 2-3 buffs to take on awakened Teach. Next arc...End war. Same for Zoro,but he will beat Mihawk by that time (Shanks equal). EOS Zoro will absolutely trash Kaido. He will be on 3-6 upgrades steroids and  sitting on history's best WSS title.


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Simply by that fact that awakened admirals will fight SH overstocked by buffs.


Awakened Admirals already happened in PH, Aokiji is working for BB so stop with Admirals > Kaido.


Corax said:


> Simply by that fact that awakened admirals will fight SH overstocked by buffs. For example Wano Luffy will take 60-70% Kaido himself. Next arc (Elbaf) he will receive *2-3 buffs* to take on arc villain. Next arc (Raftel) he will receive *2-3 buffs* to take on awakened Teach. Next arc...End war. Same for Zoro,but he will beat Mihawk by that time (Shanks equal)


And that is DB for you guys, OP is not that!


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## Red Admiral (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Simply by that fact that awakened admirals will fight SH overstocked by buffs. For example Wano Luffy will take 60-70% Kaido himself. Next arc (Elbaf) he will receive 2-3 buffs to take on arc villain. Next arc (Raftel) he will receive 2-3 buffs to take on awakened Teach. Next arc...End war. Same for Zoro,but he will beat Mihawk by that time (Shanks equal).



again mate

your claim is based by your point of view and what you think may happen
this is not a claim that can be argue with cause it's a personal thing 
and one piece is not a story that easily people can have a claim to predict it 
as another one piece reader I see whole other plot line and slower power ups and lot more help rather than power ups

this is Oda story ... we should wait for him to give us data ... not create data for ourself 


Oda is keep hyping Kaido ... there is much more in to this than you think ... don't forget Kaido want a war of his own 

we need to wait for the story and base on current feat , hype , title and power set Kaido is above Shanks and Mihawk

I have enough faith in Shanks to say he would stand higher than Kaido ... but I agree Kaido claim is above him for now

I wish people do the same


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

Kaido is hyped only to proxy hype Luffy's accomplishment. He has no other purpose. Teach is his real rival. Shanks is his role model. Admirals are his last enemies as they are guarding hated WG. Akainu is the most hated of them for known reasons. Kaido is nobody.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Akainu is the most hated of them for known reasons. Kaido is nobody.


Akainu is a nobody after Luffy defeats BB, Luffy is already above him then!

Akainu fought Aokiji for 10 days he is a mid-high top tier, Kaido is a top top tier, WG arc Luffy will be the strongest Top Top tier in the series, stronger then EOS BB, Prime WB and Roger then the only mystery been Im-sama and her/his hax powers related to the Ancient Kingdom from 800 years ago, she/he can be Uranus for all we know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> Akainu is a nobody after Luffy defeats BB he is already above him then!
> 
> Akainu fought Aokiji for 10 days he is a mid-high top tier, Kaido is a top top tier, WG arc Luffy will be the strongest Top Top tier in the series, stronger then EOS BB, Prime WB and Roger then the only mystery is Im-sama and her/his hax powers related to the Ancient Kingdom.


Pirate King Luffy and awakened Teach still will be weaker than absolutely worthless for the plot Kaido?And I was talking mostly about plot relevance (which usually also affects power lvl. via power creep). PK Luffy will fight awakened Akainu. And beat him of course,but not stomp.


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Pirate King Luffy and awakened Teach still will be weaker than absolutely worthless for the plot Kaido?


Mate EOB BB will surpass Kaido before Raftel and will be at the peak Prime WB or a little above.

Luffy before that fight will be at ~ Kaido level and after the fight at just a little above EOS BB.

When facing Im-sama he will be above anyone including Roger, Prime WB, EOS BB and Kaido.

Akainu in the meantime he does nothing to be put to that level story-wise or feat wise.

Akainu is not the boss of that arc, he is not related to the Ancient Kingdom, he does not creap from 10 days to Aokiji to above EOS BB and he is below Im, Gorosei. Kong in Rank.

The only one that can be put in that line is Shanks to equal or edging Kaido but below EOS BB because of MC mentor, Roger Pirate, maybe final Rod stone, the best haki user in contrast with the best DF user BB, an opposite to BB etc.


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> Mate EOB BB will surpass Kaido before Raftel and will be at the peak Prime WB or a little above.
> 
> Luffy before that fight will be at ~ Kaido level and after the fight at just a little above EOS BB.
> 
> ...


It is irrelevant. WG arc PK Luffy will fight awakened Akainu. And by that time he will be already stronger than Kaido and awakened Teach. Imu might be even stronger than PK Luffy,might be not.


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> WG arc PK Luffy will fight awakened Akainu.


Yes mate because Im is not Luffy's enemy but Akainu because the dude was not 2 shot by WB in his weakest form and needed 10 days to edge another Admiral.

WG is not Admiral only, it is CP0, Kong, Gorosei, Admirals and IM, Admirals are a part of the WG not the other way around and IM has more relevance then Akainu, For Akainu there are Sabo or Dragon as opponents.



Corax said:


> awakened Akainu.


He is nigh equal to awakened Aokiji neither close to EOS BB 

Oda makes BB the opposite and the dark parallel for Luffy from Jaya ... no Fam Akainu that he did not even talk with is the EOS final villain because he is cool.

Oda again mates, here IM sama for you, no Oda you troll Akainu must be the chosen one.


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> Yes mate because Im is not Luffy's enemy but Akainu because the dude was not 2 shot by WB in his weakest form and needed 10 days to edge another Admiral.
> 
> WG is not Admiral only, it is CP0, Kong, Gorosei, Admirals and IM, Admrials are a part of the WG not the other way around and IM has more relevence then Akainu, For Akainu there are Sabo or Dragon as opponents.
> 
> He is nigh equal to awakened Aokiji neither close to EOS BB


Why WG arc Luffy will fight Kong or CP0 before Im?This would be absolutely anticlimactic. Akainu at least is personally tied to Luffy. If out of nowhere hidden CP0 champion appears and fights equally with PK Luffy...well this will be a very bad writing.


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> Akainu at least is personally tied to Luffy.


Reread the story please, BB made Ace death happen, not Akainu ... Akainu was the tool that BB used, it could have been Kizaru and the ploot would not change, remove BB and MF does not happen.

BB is the dark Luffy of the story, Akainu is a toll that Gorosei and Im sama use to balance and erase the lights of the world.

Re-read Ohara chapters and see what Akainu means for the WG a mad dog nothing more.


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> Reread the story please, BB made Ace death happen, not Akainu ... Akainu was the tool that BB used, it could have been Kizaru and the ploot would not change, remove BB and MF does not happen.
> 
> BB is the dark Luffy of the story, Akainu is a toll that Gorosei and Im sama use to balance and erase the lights of the world.


BB will be dealt before WG arc. He can't be allowed to become PK. It is Luffy's destiny.


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Corax said:


> BB will be dealt before WG arc.


And that is your only counter-argument and a bad one.

WB goes first and then Kaido, none were the weakest top tiers.

So try again.

@Major Lee Hung  come here and do some Akainu justice.

@Corax  I respect your opinion but disagree with it, this is the same as WSS is the strongest bar Im sama because of reasons and that being Zoro dream.


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> And that is your only counter-argument and a bad one.
> 
> WB goes first and then Kaido, none were the weakest top tiers.
> 
> ...


WB wasn't defeated by Luffy. For example even Cracker is at very least around Doflamingo (previous arc boss). And both were defeated by Luffy. I can't see even mid arc villain weaker than previous arc boss,as it would be boring to read.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Aug 3, 2019)

Back On Topic:

For now, Kaido is the strongest
Followed by the rest of the top tiers.
WSS is in the top 5 or below.

After some Arcs BB will be the strongest
And After Raftel there is only Luffy and Im-sama to shuffle.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Aug 5, 2019)

*Spoiler*: __ 




*Kaido
Shanks
Mihawk
Big Mom
Blackbeard
Garp
Kuzan
Kizaru
Akainu
Dragon
Kong
Fujitora
Sengoku
Rayleigh
Ryokugyu
Sabo
Luffy
Marco
Weevil
Beckman
Gion
King
Shiryu
Chaton
Katakuri*



Names aren't ordered in terms of strength. Same color group denotes a fight would be extreme diff, though it's possible the gaps are a bit bigger between the same group if you go lower (high/very high diff wins instead). Anyone from first group would need very high diff or extreme diff to beat anyone from the second group and so on, but again I'd say top 10 closer to one another than top 15-25.


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## Gotenks92 (Aug 5, 2019)

1-Kaido
2-Dragon
3-Blackbeard 
4-Akainu/Garp
5-Mihawk/Shanks/Big Mom/Aokiji
6-Kizaru
7-Ryokugyu
8-Sengoku 
9-Fujitora
10-King
11-Rayleigh
12-Queen (1.320B :gitgud)
13-Marco
14-Shiryu 
15-Sabo
16-Ben Beckman 
17-Katakuri 
18-Weevil (could be higher)
19-Luffy
20-Kid
21-Jack
22-Lucky Roo
23-Kyoshiro/Smoothie/Vista
24-Cracker 
25-Doflamingo
25-Law
26-Hawkins


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## LolonoisZolo (Aug 5, 2019)

Top tiers
1. Akainu
2. Mihawk
3. Kaido/BM
4. Admirals/Shanks
5. BB/Dragon
Keep in mind that the level between them is very close. Numbers only show who would win after a long fight (high at least more likely extreme)
I didn't think about the rest so that's it for now


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## Shiroryu (Aug 5, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Top tiers
> 1. Akainu
> 2. Mihawk
> 3. Kaido/BM
> ...


Sorry but I can’t see Sabo surpassing Kaido


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## LolonoisZolo (Aug 5, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Sorry but I can’t see Sabo surpassing Kaido


Lol Sabo is nowhere in my list, there's Dragon but he is below Kaido xD


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## Shiroryu (Aug 5, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Lol Sabo is nowhere in my list, there's Dragon but he is below Kaido xD


Sabo is gonna beat someone that you put above Kaido


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## Monkey D Ban (Aug 6, 2019)

1. Kaido
2. Akainu
3. Blackbeard 
4. Dragon
5. Mihawk
6. Shanks
7. Aokiji
8. Kizaru
9. Big Mom
10. Fujitora 
11. Green Bull
12. Garp
13. Sengoku
14. Rayleigh 
15. Ben Beckmann
16. Marco 
17. Sabo
18. King 
19. Luffy 
20. Katakuri 
21. Shiryu 
22. Magellan 
23. Jozu
24. Smoothie 
25. Queen

1 - 11 are all top tiers fights between 2 of these characters will end in extreme difficulty. 

12 - 22 are my highest high tier characters fights between any of these characters will be extreme difficulty as well. 

23 - 25 are my mid high tier characters in terms of strength. They’re character who serve mainly as the third strongest in their Yonko’s crew.

Reactions: Like 2


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## LolonoisZolo (Aug 6, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Sabo is gonna beat someone that you put above Kaido


Maybe, or maybe not. Kaido is getting beaten ''soon'' though. Akainu has a high chance of being the final boss.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Aug 6, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> *Akainu has a high chance of being the final boss*.



Kong : Hold my chair
Gorosei : Hold my beer 
Imu : Hold my throne

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Aug 6, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Top tiers
> 1. Akainu
> 2. Mihawk


This is a legit scaling of OJ aka pure fan fiction!

Also, WB and Kaido were/will be defeated first so WB < Kaido < BM <  BB < Akainu :V



Correction after Luffy defeats  WG then Zoro defeats WSS for the title so in fact the scale is this way

1.EOS Zoro
2.WSS
3. PK Luffy

Because WSS was defeated last and Zoro defeated him!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Aug 6, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Maybe, or maybe not. Kaido is getting beaten ''soon'' though. Akainu has a high chance of being the final boss.


Maybe you should reread chapter 908

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Aug 6, 2019)

There’s really no way Akainu will be stronger then BB at EoS considering Teach has 2 DF that are superior to his; and potentially may get a third. Unless Akainu gets an ancient weapon or something but that fit Gorosei or Imu better

I’ve said it many times Akainu is the Lucci of P2


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## LolonoisZolo (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Kong : Hold my chair
> Gorosei : Hold my beer
> Imu : Hold my throne


Kong ? Wtf lol why not the silhouettes in thriller bark while we're at it.
Gorosei seem like weak bureaucrats
Could very well be Imu but we know nothing at all and I doubt Oda is gonna do a Kishimoto :s
Who knows though you could be right 


QMS said:


> This is a legit scaling of OJ aka pure fan fiction!
> 
> Also, WB and Kaido were/will be defeated first so WB < Kaido < BM <  BB < Akainu :V
> 
> ...


I don't know if this is serious but if it is then I totally disagree...


Shiroryu said:


> Maybe you should reread chapter 908


So Imu ordering the Gorosei to kill someone who in return are going to ask 'guess who' is supposed to prove something your way ?
Spandam was calling the shots in EL wasn't he ? Was he stronger than Lucci ? Was he the final boss ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Aug 6, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Kong ? Wtf lol why not the silhouettes in thriller bark while we're at it.
> Gorosei seem like weak bureaucrats
> Could very well be Imu but we know nothing at all and I doubt Oda is gonna do a Kishimoto :s
> Who knows though you could be right
> ...


Yea one of the Gorosei wielding a Supreme Grade Sword, all of them having scars despite being CDs, and having ripped bodies clearly implies that they are weaklings.

Comparing Imu to Spandam is just lol


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## Red Admiral (Aug 7, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Kong ? Wtf lol why not the silhouettes in thriller bark while we're at it.
> Gorosei seem like weak bureaucrats
> Could very well be Imu but we know nothing at all and I doubt Oda is gonna do a Kishimoto :s
> Who knows though you could be right
> ...


Kong is the head of all armies in WG
Gorosei seem legit enough 
and Imu from blood line of gods is the best match for blood line of D

Akainu is not even a bad person


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Base on New info ... here a possible list ... I'm not yet sure about if I want to go with it or not but info are info

*Supreme Tier (Pirate King)*

*1- **Roger / Prime Beard *
*2- Prime Garp*

Top Top Tier (Yonko) 

*3- Shanks 
4- Kaido
5- Big Mom
6- Teach*

High Top Tiers 

*8 -Douglas Bullet*
*9 - Shiki*
*10 -Mihawk*
*11 -Dark King *

low High Top Tiers (Admiral)

*12- Dragon*
*13- Akainu*
*14- Kuzan*
*15- Prime Sengoku*
*16- Kizaru*

Mid top Tiers 

*17- Ryokugyu
18- Fujitora 
19- Ben Benckam*

Low Top Tiers

*20- Old Garp
21- Old Sengoku
22- Old Dark King*

closest to the low top tier

*23- Sabo*
*24- Edward.J*
*25- Marco*


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

@Red Admiral you forgot to include rookie Crocodile.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> @Red Admiral you forgot to include rookie Crocodile.



if Shanks can take Fish jokes ... Bullet can take other jokes ... no result don't mean fighting equally

Cro is good at ruining


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if Shanks can take Fish jokes ... Bullet can take other jokes ... no result don't mean fighting equally
> 
> Cro is good at ruining


Ray-san can take jokes too... like being weaker than a non canon character, at the very least in terms of said non canon character's power.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> Ray-san can take jokes too... like being weaker than a non cannon character, at the very least in terms of said NC power.



Oda : Bullet is canon
Law : no he ain't

you can deny .... but deny won't get you anywhere , if Oda said some thing once , he not gonna change his mind

and if anything Roger and Dark King gap is bigger than ever 

and it's kinda poor and cheap that one ignore 100 line of honer and power and joke about one unclear line ... 

but this is one piece fandom ... you can't expect much fairness

but to me ... this is Oda story , if he want things to be in a certain way ... I have to agree


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Oda: Mihawk waits for a swordmaster who surpassed his rival to challenge him.
@Red Admiral : Shanks was not as strong back then & is in a slightly higher tier than Mihawk even as a swordsman.


Croco boi is more canon. The Lord of the Coast is more canon. Either you accept Croco bois true power or you don't include a non canon character.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> Oda: Mihawk waits for a swordmaster who surpassed his rival to challenge him.
> @Red Admiral : Shanks was not as strong back then & is in a slightly higher tier than Mihawk even as a swordsman.
> 
> 
> Croco boi is more canon. The Lord of the Coast is more canon. Either you accept Croco bois true power or you don't include a non canon character.



Vista is a stronger swordsmaster than Big mom ... so ... Vista > Big Mom?

p.s

more canon means shit ... Oda said he is canon so he is


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Vista is a stronger swordsmaster than Big mom ... so ... Vista > Big Mom?


Baseless. And fyi, Shanks doesn't wanna eat a DF. 

Why do you think Garp lost more strength than Sengoku/Ray?


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> Baseless. And fyi, Shanks doesn't wanna eat a DF.
> 
> Why do you think Garp lost more strength than Sengoku/Ray?



no it's not ... Vista swordsmanship is stated to be near Mihawk ... and sword master is a measure of swordsmanship

+

cause as White Beard showed us age effect Haki more than anything

Garp main power is Haki

while Sengoku have his DF and age don't effect that
while Dark King have swordsmanship 

I'm OK if Garp be among mid top tiers on my list but I need to see his Haki on action


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## Edogawa (Aug 10, 2019)

Tier 1: Admirals and Yonkos and characters with similar portrayal:

1. Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji/Fujitora/Ryokugyu
2. Kaido/Big Mom/Shanks/Mihawk/Dragon
3. Blackbeard/Rayleigh 

Tier 2:

4. Luffy
5. Katakuri
6. Cracker
7. Doflamingo
8. Zoro
9. Jack/Queen/King
10. Sabo

The rest of tiers is toss up between commanders, shichibukai and others.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> no it's not ... Vista swordsmanship is stated to be near Mihawk ... and sword master is a measure of swordsmanship
> 
> +
> 
> ...


His skills may be near, but he falls short in other departments needed to have the title, like haki & physical strength etc. He is so far below Mihawk and Big Mom they can defeat him w/o going all out.

You think Garp is 2-3 sub tiers ahead of them in their prime. He stayed more active than both for the past 2 decades. Ray should have lost strength the most, since he was inactive the most (didn't touch his sword for 2 decades) so makes sense if they are tied in your list as they are now. Garp should be higher.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> His skills may be near, but he falls short in other departments needed to have the title, like haki & physical strength etc. He is so far below Mihawk and Big Mom they can defeat him w/o going all out.
> 
> You think Garp is 2-3 sub tiers ahead of them in their prime. He stayed more active than both for the past 2 decades. Ray should have lost, since he was inactive the most (didn't touch his sword for 2 decades) so makes sense if they are tied in your list as they are now. Garp should be higher.



Vista don't need title ... we are talking about how strong is a sword master ... and the only thing that matter is swordsmanship alone not other powers 
+
fair point ... I would consider that as I said ...


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Vista don't need title ... we are talking about how strong is a sword master ... and the only thing that matter is swordsmanship alone not other powers
> +
> fair point ... I would consider that as I said ...


Shanks can't be stronger than the WSS as a swordsman. He'd need to be something else instead or mixed something else with his swordsmanship. DF is unlikely since he wants to swim. Other abilities are more likely and possible. He's most likely still a swordsman but equal to the WSS.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> Shanks can't be stronger than the WSS as a swordsman. He'd need to be something else instead or mixed something else with his swordsmanship. DF is unlikely since he wants to swim. Other abilities are more likely and possible. He's most likely still a swordsman but equal to the WSS.



Shanks CoC said hi 

Shanks swordsmanship and other powers are almost equal to Mihawk ... he have better Haki feats even in CoA and CoO and raw strength and speed ... but let say equal

Advance CoC would end the game


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 10, 2019)

Yeah, because Mihawk totally couldn't happen to have a better CoA / CoO to make up for Shanks's CoC


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks CoC said hi
> 
> Shanks swordsmanship and other powers are almost equal to Mihawk ... he have better Haki feats even in CoA and CoO and raw strength and speed ... but let say equal
> 
> Advance CoC would end the game


If so, then Kaido's/Big Mom's CoC, CoO, CoA, large bodies, physical powers, weapons on top of their OP fruits say hi to your Shanks CoC and #1 with 1 arm since a cute fish took the other one.

Shanks can have hidden powers but Mihawk can't even have CoC?

Their equal with everything they have in their ass. CoC included.


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Law said:


> Their equal with everything they have in their ass. CoC included.



sure ... write a fan fiction about it if you like ... but I doubt Oda would care



Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Yeah, because Mihawk totally couldn't happen to have a better CoA / CoO to make up for Shanks's CoC



the claim is not logical to begin with and back up with zero reason
and even if this be true ... what is the gap? close to zero?

while what is the gap of CoC among the two?


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the claim is not logical to begin with and back up with zero reason



Same goes for "Shanks has a better CoA / CoO" 
I don't remember any CoO feat from both of them (or anything impressive)
Best CoA feat for Shanks is stopping a magmafist aimed towards Koby / Mihawk doesn't even have CoA feats, we just know that he is a CoA master and _may have_ achieved "Black Blade" technique


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Same goes for "Shanks has a better CoA / CoO"
> I don't remember any CoO feat from both of them (or anything impressive)
> Best CoA feat for Shanks is stopping a magmafist aimed towards Koby / Mihawk doesn't even have CoA feats, we just know that he is a CoA master and _may have_ achieved "Black Blade" technique



well in ave novel all of Shanks crew member and himself had island level CoO ... while Mihawk didn't know Zoro beat babons

still in CoA and CoO ... let say close 

+

black blade is also not clear
we don't know much about it
we don't know if Mihaw made his sword black or like Zoro he jusy carry one
for all we know Roger , Shanks and Dark king don't have a Black Blade ...


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## Geralt-Singh (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> well in ave novel all of Shanks crew member and himself had island level CoO ... while Mihawk didn't know Zoro beat babons



So nothing impressive for a haki master, and don't start with the downplay, I remember Shanks not being able to sense Higuma


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> So nothing impressive for a haki master, and don't start with the downplay, I remember Shanks not being able to sense Higuma


Shh, that was plot.

When Mihawk is chills with Perona, reads the newspaper & is drinks wine, he's supposed to have his haki activated 24/7 incase an Admiral shows up at his door to kill him.

No wonder Oda chose not to nickname him "The Clairvoyant."

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> So nothing impressive for a haki master, and don't start with the downplay, I remember Shanks not being able to sense Higuma



well Shanks can't use CoO when Oda didn't know what CoO is ... even Shanks is not that hype


but there is a chance too strong CoO end up being the reason Shanks lost his arm


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## Law (Aug 10, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> but there is a chance too strong CoO end up being the reason Shanks lost his arm


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## Red Admiral (Aug 10, 2019)

editor made that happen sure .. But Oda is too much of a professional writer to give us that as a reason

since he like to make sense of every thing

if Shanks saw a small part of a very far future where Luffy reach laugh tail or fight Imu ... 

he might choose to inspire Luffy by giving one of his arm ... to teach him what matter the most maybe ...

the word " GAMBLE" only apply to a choose


call it fan fiction if you like but I can see that as a logic


editor made me
I didn't know about CoO

are not good answers in a  professional point of view


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## Sherlōck (Aug 10, 2019)

From current strongest to weakest

Kaido / Akainu
Akainu / Kaido
Shanks / Kizaru
Kizaru / Shanks
Big Mom / Mihawk
Mihawk / Big mom
Green Bull / Dragon
Dragon / Green Bull
Black Beard / Fujitora
Fujitora / Black Beard
Aokiji / Garp
Garp / Aokiji
Sengoku / Rayleigh
Rayleigh / Sengoku
Kong / CPO leader
CPO leader / Kong
Chaton / Momosagi
Momosagi / Chaton
Beckman / Weevil
Weevil Beckman
Marco
King / Sabo
Sabo / King
Katakuri
Shiryuu

Reactions: Like 3


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## CaptainCommander (Aug 10, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> From current strongest to weakest
> 
> Kaido / Akainu
> Akainu / Kaido
> ...



Yikes, WG is stacked.


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## TheWiggian (Aug 10, 2019)

If Bullet and his powerlvl is canon then Zoro is > Law and G4 Luffy


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## Bash24 (Aug 10, 2019)

Only living characters:
High top tier:
1. Kaido
2. Blackbeard
3. Dragon
4. Mihawk
5. Shanks
6. Big mom

Mid top tier:
7. Akainu
8. Kizaru
9. Kuzan (one leg)
10. Fujitora
11. Greenbull
12. Garp
13. Rayleigh
14. Sengoku
15. Kong ?

Low top tier:
16. Luffy (with new haki upgrade)
17. Beckman
18. Marco
19. Sabo
20. Weevil

High-high tier:
21. King
22. Katakuri
23. 2nd Commanders
24. 3rd Commanders
25. Doflamingo


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## Lauroe (Aug 18, 2019)

Current Ranking :

*Top Top Tier*
1.Kaido
2.Big Mom
*High Top Tier*
3.Dragon
4.Shanks
5.Teach~Akainu
6.Mihawk
*Mid Top Tier*
7.Kizaru
8.Ryokugyu
9.Aokiji
10.Fujitora
11.Ben Beckman
*Low Top Tier*
12.Garp
13.Rayleigh
14.Sengoku
(?)Weevil
*Top High Tier*
15.Luffy
16.Katakuri~Marco
17.King
18.Shiryu
*High High Tier*
19.Lucky Roo
20.Doflamingo
21.Queen
22.Kid
*Mid High Tier*
23.Smoothie
24.Hancock
25.Jozu~Vista
26.RS Sanji~Law~Zoro
27.Cracker
28.Jinbe
29.Jack
30.Yasopp


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## Richard Lionheart (Aug 18, 2019)

*Not counting dead or completely featless characters:*

1.Kaido
2.Big Mom
3.Shanks
4.Akainu~Teach
5.Mihawk
6.Aokiji
7.Kizaru
8.Fujitora
9. Garp
10. Rayleigh
11. Sengoku
12. Marco
13. Luffy
14. King
15. Katakuri~Sabo
16. Jozu
17. Queen
18. Smoothie
19. Vista
20. Jack
21.Cracker
22. Doflamingo
23. Law
24. Zoro
25. Jinbe

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sherlōck (Aug 18, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Yikes, WG is stacked.



They are the biggest military organisation of the world.


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## Shiroryu (Aug 18, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> From current strongest to weakest
> 
> Kaido / Akainu
> Akainu / Kaido
> ...


What claim does Akainu have to be equal to Kaido?
What claim does Kizaru have to be equal to Shanks?
What claim does Fujitora have to be equal to Blackbeard?
What claim do Momousagi and Chaton have to be above Beckman and Weevil?

Reactions: Like 1


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## CaptainCommander (Aug 18, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> They are the biggest military organisation of the world.



Biggest doesn't mean bigger than every other top organisation combined.


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## Sherlōck (Aug 19, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> What claim does Akainu have to be equal to Kaido?
> 
> What claim does Kizaru have to be equal to Shanks?
> 
> ...



What claim does Kaido have to be equal to Akainu?

What claim does Shanks have to be equal to Kizaru?

What claim does Blackbeard have to be equal to Fujitora?

What claim do Beckman and Weevil have to be above Momosagi and Chaton?



CaptainCommander said:


> Biggest doesn't mean bigger than every other top organisation combined.



You mean WG having 11 vs Yonko + RA having 14?


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## Beast (Aug 19, 2019)

Alive 
Top top tier
Dragon 
Shanks 
Akainu 
Mihawk 

High top tier
Kaidou 
Kizaru
BB
Aokiji 

Mid top tier
GB
Garp
BM 
Fuji 

Low top tier
Sengoku 
Ray
Ben
Marco

Top higher tiers
Luffy 
King 
Kata 
Lucky 
Kidd 
Queen 

High higher tiers
Law 
Zoro (powered up) 
RS Sanji 
Jack 
Hawkins 
Cracker 
Drake
Urouge

Reactions: Like 2


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## Etherborn (Aug 19, 2019)

I'm not ranking Im or Rox, it would be pointless to do so right now since nothing is known about them. Also not counting featless commanders such as Lucky Roo or Yasopp. 

Top tier (Yonko/Admirals): 
Shanks
Dragon
Akainu
Kaido
Big Mom
Mihawk
Blackbeard
Kizaru
Aokiji
Fujitora
Ryokuygu
Garp
Sengoku
Rayleigh
Kong

High tier (Yonko First Mates/Commanders)
Ben Beckman
Sabo
Marco
Luffy
King
Katakuri
Shiryu
Queen
Jozu
Vista

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiroryu (Aug 19, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> What claim does Kaido have to be equal to Akainu?
> 
> What claim does Shanks have to be equal to Kizaru?
> 
> ...


Idk, how about the fact that Oda says that you should bet on him in a 1v1? Or how about the fact that Akainu lost to a weakened Emperor?

Shanks is in the same tier as Kaido. Shanks is an extremely relevant character to the story while Kizaru is probably the most irrelevant top tier. Dude would be lucky to be Sanji’s EoS opponent.

There’s something wrong with you if you can’t see why BB is stronger. He’s gonna be Luffy’s final obstacle to becoming PK and will most likely kill Shanks soon. He even has an Admiral serving him...

Why would two randoms only introduced because of a fan request in an SBS be above someone comparable to Shanks and someone equal to Young WB?


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## CaptainCommander (Aug 19, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> What claim does Kaido have to be equal to Akainu?
> 
> What claim does Shanks have to be equal to Kizaru?
> 
> ...



Bottom ones don't count.


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## Sherlōck (Aug 19, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> Idk, how about the fact that Oda says that you should bet on him in a 1v1? Or how about the fact that Akainu lost to a weakened Emperor?



People say bet on him. Betting or gambling is by definition an event with uncertain outcome. People also say Luffy is the Fifth Emperor. He isn't. 

And who did Kaido beat? His history is filled with stories of his defeat. Akainu is the only top tier with a confirmed win against another top tier. 

And Akainu didn't lose. Akainu was fine and Dandy. WB was the one missing half his head. 



> Shanks is in the same tier as Kaido. Shanks is an extremely relevant character to the story while Kizaru is probably the most irrelevant top tier. Dude would be lucky to be Sanji’s EoS opponent.



Kizaru is in the same tier as Akainu. 

Don't bring up BS point that has no merit. Shanks relevancy in story isn't a reflection of his power level.  



> There’s something wrong with you if you can’t see why BB is stronger. He’s gonna be Luffy’s final obstacle to becoming PK and will most likely kill Shanks soon.



BB's greatest feat is beating meat shield Marco. 

Yes, he will become more strong. He will beat Shanks. He will be PK level . But that will come in the future. That's not current BB.



> He even has an Admiral serving him..



It was never stated he is working under BB.

Even if he is only a fool would believe that Aokiji has suddenly turned pirate and assisting BB to become PK. 



> Why would two randoms only introduced because of a fan request in an SBS be above someone comparable to Shanks and someone equal to Young WB?



Is Beckman and Weevil Admiral / Yonko candidate? 

To be even a candidate to to be a top tier is huge hype. Beckman's fellow YFM are one shot material for Yonko. Will WG ever nominate someone like that? Maybe Beckman is above them but he has to show it first. 

Young WB ranges from 15 to 32.  At that time he was still under another captain. He wasn't WSM at that time. So comparing Weevil to that is pretty much meaningless.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Aug 19, 2019)

CaptainCommander said:


> Bottom ones don't count.



Well, they have twice the number of high tiers than WG. So it balances out.


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## Dellinger (Aug 19, 2019)

Every time Sherlock claims that Kaido ~ Akainu, I wanna vomit.

Unless Oda or the manga contradicts Kaido's claim, Kaido > anyone.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenBull956 (Aug 19, 2019)

Shiroryu said:


> What claim does Fujitora have to be equal to Blackbeard?


His Awakening maybe . Teach's range of power = Marineford and around it to an extent

An Admiral with Awakening range of power = could be half Punk Hazard , which is far bigger than Marineford

No actually that's for Aokiji / Akainu

Non Awakened Fujitora is capable of destroying Dressrosa ( another large island like Punk Hazard as 1 ) and area around it with 5 giant Meteors he pulled on Sabo

Who knows what he can do with Awakening

Fujitora also can be a bad matchup to him as Teach's mini Black Hole pull is Gravity pull

And Fuji's DF is that , Gravity DF

Teach's endurance also could be an issue , he's rolling on the floor everytime he takes an attack ( maybe because Yami doubled the damage )

Edit - infact i think Fujitora could be the one to erase his threat from OP world by killing him after he's battered by Luffy , Luffy doesn't kill

In real life Teach was killed by Maynard , and Maynard was Fujitora's underling in Dressrosa

Maybe Fujitora will reverse the Gravity of his Yami Yami mini Black Hole or something


Shiroryu said:


> Or how about the fact that Akainu lost to a weakened Emperor?


WB sneaked Akainu on the first attack though so he wasn't ready to take the bubble quake there , usually when a character is ready to take an attack he takes it better than when not ready

So his durability during the first attack isn't his real durability

Also he could've been one shotted if it was Kuzan or maybe Mihawk who sneaked on him

Kizaru was about to blew Oars head before Luffy came into the plaza so maybe he can too

Plus , when sneak attack isn't involved , Aokiji looked better than him ( and it was Jozu who ended the clash )

And that's with Aokiji implying his Ice is in disadvantage vs WB's Vibration

And with Kizaru , WB actually sneaked on him as well but because he was the worst opponent for him from the 3 Admirals ( extremely fast , than Akainu and already extremely fast Aokiji also doesn't have disadvantage like Aokiji ) , he failed to scratch Kizzy , instead Kizaru seem to casually blast him with 1 finger laser while maybe holding his Bisento with 1 foot


Shiroryu said:


> Dude would be lucky to be Sanji’s EoS opponent.


Since you believe Akainu is EOS Sabo's opponent , i think this could be a problem to that ( i think you're implying Kizaru is not gonna have an opponent here from Revolutionary Army , so you think he'd be lucky to have Sanji )

I mean the problem is , how is Sabo gonna fight Akainu ? He can't come alone to Marine HQ , maybe if Dragon is coming with him then they can fight Akainu and Kizaru

But then what about Ryokugyu and possibly Fujitora whose home is also in the Marine HQ ? Sengoku ? How would Garp react ? Chaton and Momousagi are still Admiral candidates despite they were just SBS characters as you said

Besides Vegapunk's title is Marine Head scientist , so maybe his Weapon will be placed at Marine HQ ?

And there are also numerous other Vice Admirals like John Giant and Ronse for Ivankov Inazuma Karasu Morley Lindbergh Bello Betty Koala to fight

Even if Akainu is indeed EOS Sabo's opponent i think he's gonna slightly surpass Dragon with that so personally i'd put Akainu = Dragon


Shiroryu said:


> There’s something wrong with you if you can’t see why BB is stronger. He’s gonna be Luffy’s final obstacle to becoming PK and will most likely kill Shanks soon. He even has an Admiral serving him...


Kill Shanks soon but where exactly it will be in One Piece timeline ? Only Oda knows

Maybe sometime after Elbaf but only Oda knows

Besides if we're following Aokiji's Vivre Card then he isn't a BB's crew member because unlike Blackbeard Pirates crew members cards whose backgrounds are Black , his card Background is .... Green i think

And there was no symbol of Blackbeard Pirates at it unlike Blackbeard Pirates crew members card

Though you're not taking Vivre Card seriously

I Personally think that , Aokiji is an ally , that could be a device for Oda to be used to fight Mihawk and then Shiryuu sneaks some time during the fight

Because .... Shiryuu becoming as strong as Mihawk in less than a year .... idk , besides his DF is underwhelming anyway considering

Infact , i think it's not gonna be even half a year if Oda is indeed planning Shiryuu to fight Mihawk

Wano , gonna be a very long arc , 2 months
Until and during Elbaf , i doubt gonna be anywhere near Wano length
After Elbaf .... what ? Even if Luffy & Grandfleet fight Akainu & Marines it's not gonna be a month , nowhere

After that , Luffy will fight Teach imo and doubt it's gonna be 6 months for all of that

It's still 50/50 between Luffy and Sabo because we don't even know if Luffy will 1v1 Kaido

Anwyay , Shiryuu is not gonna be as strong as Mihawk in less than 6 months , so i think he could sneak on Mihawk when fighting Aokiji and self proclaim that he's the new WSS

Zoro that is filled with anger fights Shiryuu but dissapointed that Shiryuu isn't as strong as Mihawk who he was expecting to be his opponent

And then Luffy fights Imu and Zoro fights Shodai Kitetsu Elder and gets it ( maybe Elders gonna be in their prime due to Bonney's ability ) , and then known as the World's Greatest Swordsman with 3 complete set of Kitetsu

Again this is just my speculation though , btw i forget Shiryuu had eaten the DF before Moria came there lol , but i think it should still be new that he ate the DF when Moria came there , less than a month maybe


Shiroryu said:


> Idk, how about the fact that Oda says that you should bet on him in a 1v1? Or how about the fact that Akainu lost to a weakened Emperor?


Regardless of Kaido's WSC is legit or not i think that scar is from Akainu most likely and gonna be used to hype him as the next opponent , it totally looked like something from Akainu , you said Kaido and Akainu don't have connection like Oden and Whitebeard , yes Akainu was never blatantly stated to have connection with Kaido but he got captured 18 times by Marines and other Emperors ,

Do you think he had not encountered at least 2 if not all 3 pre skip Admirals ?

I also think he got the scar during these last 20 years btw .... because when he blazed Oden's castle with 3 Calamities 20 years ago it didn't appear in chapter 920

Especially if Sabo gets captured and btw he gave Ace's vibe of being reckless before his death , Sabo gave it in 908

The only other candidate that i could think of is Whitebeard with Bisento and Gura although it's hard to imagine what shape of the scar it'd make but whatever


Shiroryu said:


> Shanks is in the same tier as Kaido. Shanks is an extremely relevant character to the story while Kizaru is probably the most irrelevant top tier. Dude would be lucky to be Sanji’s EoS opponent.


If Shanks end up only serving for a hypetool of BB then i don't think he's that relevant .... because even if he doesn't serve as anything for the story then somehow dies , by sickness or whatever , BB is gonna be the strongest anyway and gonna be an obstacle for Luffy


Shiroryu said:


> Why would two randoms only introduced because of a fan request in an SBS be above someone comparable to Shanks and someone equal to Young WB?


They are still Admirals candidates though , but i think they could be below Beckmann and Weevil actually

They could be anywhere from YC1 to high diff for an Admiral .... but extremely likely that is a really big gap

Beckmann and Weevil are there
( Beckmann is imo a High Diff for an Admiral but won't be too sure since Kizaru ignored him ) , Chaton and Momousagi could be in that gap too without being above Beckmann and Weevil


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## Shishio ishere (Aug 20, 2019)

Mihawk
Akainu
Current Blackbeard
Kaido
Aokiji
Kizaru
Big Mon
Shanks
Fujitora
Green Bull
Current Shilliew
Old Ray
Old Garp
Old Sengoku
Beckman
Marco
Kuma
Magallen
King
Katakuri
Luffy
Zoro
Sabo
Vista
Jozu
Queen
Ace 
Jack
Cracker


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## GreenBull956 (Aug 20, 2019)

Imu
Kaido
Akainu/Dragon
Mihawk
Shanks
Aokiji/Big Mom
Fujitora
Kizaru
Ryokugyu
Teach
CP 0 Leader
Kong
Sengoku
Rayleigh
Garp
Beckmann
Weevil
Luffy
Chaton / Momousagi
Marco
King
Katakuri
Sabo
Shiryuu

The positions of top 12 could very well change a lot EOS , Elders .... maybe not now .

Reactions: Like 2


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