# War Arc Sakura vs Hebi Sasuke



## Itachі (Apr 14, 2016)

*Location:* Amegakure

*Distance:* 15 metres

*Mindset:* IC

*Knowledge:* Full


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## Mercurial (Apr 14, 2016)

Sasuke is too fast for her, with far better speed plus Sharingan precognition, her far slower and predictable smashy-smashy won't land a hit. Ever. He blitzes her head off with Chidorigatana.


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sasuke is too fast for her, with far better speed plus Sharingan precognition, her far slower and predictable smashy-smashy won't land a hit. Ever. He blitzes her head off with Chidorigatana.



Is that so? 

Why do  you not wank Sakura for hitting Kaguya like you wank Kakashi? Wasn't she portrayed to be on the same level as Kaguya, and stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke (using your logic of course) 

Surely you remember that Sasuke's PS couldn't do shit to Kaguya
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Meanwhile, Sakura's punch effected her...
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Wasn't that Kishi telling us that Sakura's punch > Rinnegan Sasuke's PS? 
Or does this logic only applicable when it benefits Kakashi? 


And here Shin trolled Sasuke
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and yet Sakura
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Or does this also apply when Kaguya trolls Sasuke, and then get hit by Kakashi
but same logic can't be used with other characters? 

Note: this is only applying some  fanboys logic.

-----

OT: Sakura fodderstomps him.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Apr 14, 2016)

Full knowledge? Chidori nagashi chops her to pieces at range. He doesn't even need to get at point blank range endanger himself. The shockwaves from her ground pound also won't one shot him if direct C2 blows couldn't.


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## Trojan (Apr 14, 2016)

> The shockwaves from her ground pound also won't one shot him if direct C2 blows couldn't.



Must be how Kaguya was not affected by Sakura's punch because she was not affected by Narudo's 9 FRS. 



> Chidori nagashi chops her to pieces at range.


Good thing she can heal that easily.


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## Drake (Apr 15, 2016)

Sasuke's too fast, so he wins with moderate difficulty at most. He can probably set up Kirin against her as well.


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## shade0180 (Apr 15, 2016)

5% Katsuyu flattens Hebi Sauce.

Nothing in Hebi Sauce's arsenal can damage Katsuyu, while Sakura can just camp in it.


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## Mithos (Apr 15, 2016)

War arc Sakura has much better portrayal than Hebi Sasuke, and I cannot see her losing to such an outdated version of him.

Sakura wins.


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

war arc , pain arc , immortal arc , it doesn't matter , suckura is suckura 
she's even more useless and pathatic around sasuke kun
sasuke blitz and one shot her , and she won't do jackshit about it

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Mithos (Apr 15, 2016)

Lol at Sasuke blitzing her. 

Sakura managed to not get caught right away by Kaguya's arms, which Naruto said was super fast. Hebi Sasuke couldn't even blitz Deidara, who was trolled by Sai. Even Taka Sasuke was reacted to and blocked by Darui's water wall, and portrayal-wise Sakura is on a completely different level than the Kage body-guards.


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## shade0180 (Apr 15, 2016)

@cctr9

even if you do hate Sakura, you can't just pretend Sakura would drop dead when she have legitimate feats that can put her on the same standing as Pein Arc Naruto and Hebi Sauce.


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

even if i hate her , what's does this has to do with anything ? 
besides there are literally millions and millions who hate her guts 
she couldn't even react to those juubi mini clones and had to be saved by naruto and sasuke ........for the 1000th time  
she wasn't even able to react to an exhausted half blind sasuke for COL 
and her speed doesn't seem to be above base naruto btw
base naruto was handling karui and omui , when she was still trying to figure out what was going on 
i know it wasn't war arc sakura , but her speed and reactions didn't seem to be better at the war time


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## Bonly (Apr 15, 2016)

Sakura eventually punches him. She can heal from most of what he can dish out range wise so he's likely gonna get into CQC where on hit is the end of him and between the Queen of solo and Sakura attacking, he's gonna get overwhelmed


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## Matty (Apr 15, 2016)

Sasuke is not blitzing her. Sakura takes this mid did IMO. Wtf is with everybody and speed? Faster person always wins no matter how outclassed they are, smh


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## Veracity (Apr 15, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Is that so?
> 
> Why do  you not wank Sakura for hitting Kaguya like you wank Kakashi? Wasn't she portrayed to be on the same level as Kaguya, and stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke (using your logic of course)
> 
> ...



Thank you for this . The Kakashi wank is down right terrible. 

I also think people emphasize speed FARRR to greatly. Give Iruka one speed feat faster than Sakura, and now he speed blitzes her 100% of the time. The logic there is pretty weak.


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## Sapherosth (Apr 15, 2016)

As much as I hate Sakura, she's not going down easily from mediocre ninjutsu.


She can however be put into a genjutsu and forced to undo byakugo and then sasuke can kill her afterwards.


Also....Sakura punching Kaguya didn't seem like it dealt any damage at all. All it did was push Kaguya down despite landing it straight on the back of the head.


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> As much as* I hate Sakura*, she's not going down easily from mediocre ninjutsu.
> 
> 
> She can however be put into a genjutsu and forced to undo byakugo and then sasuke can kill her afterwards.
> ...



you're a great man dude, i was wrong about you 
you have all of my respect and more , and i'm sorry for anything bad or hurtfull i said to you 
you have tottaly changed my opinion on you ( not that my opinion mattered in the first place ) , you're such a great poster , keep it up man


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## wooly Eullerex (Apr 15, 2016)

sakura loses because she can't punch sasuke before being dismembered by a rai'ton saber.


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## Amol (Apr 15, 2016)

Sasuke starts running towards Sakura with his sword(basically trying to do what he * failed * to do against Deidara).
She punches the ground.
Impact of the attack not only throws him away but also give him one hell of concussion if not outright injuries.
Sakura later finishes him off.
And for fuck sake Hebi is not fast enough to blitz her.
People always overrates his speed despite having no such feats.
People can wank Kakashi to heaven for his bullshit feats against God tiers but Sakura loses to even likes of Hebi.
Do you guys even portrayal?
Smh.


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## Saru (Apr 15, 2016)

Sakura takes this with moderate to high difficulty IMO. I never really understood why people that thought Hebi Sasuke would be able to low-diff this version of Sakura when he probably can't even kill her outside of Kirin (note: Tsunade survived bisection with Katsuyu, which Sakura has) and it's questionable whether or not that jutsu would even be enough to bust Katsuyu. Actually, I kind of doubt that Kirin is powerful enough to destroy Katsuyu because Itachi seemed to block Kirin with V1 / V2 Susano'o--the same form of Susano'o that Tsunade busted open with a kick.​


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

Why do people think Hebi Sasuke can one-shot her? His blitz attempt on Deidara failed, who has no known physical prowess or taijutsu skill whatsoever. He is never blitzing War Arc Sakura, all she has to do is punch the ground and Sasuke is sent flying like a rag doll and injured. Then she summons Katsuyu and together they proceed to overwhelm Sasuke by tearing the area apart and spewing acid at him from multiple directions until he can't do anything. She'd win with mid-to-high difficulty.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Apr 15, 2016)

Byakugo makes Sakura basically immune to most of what this version of Sasuke can dish out.  Of course, genjutsu bypasses physical healing, but if Sakura has a Katsuyu slug sitting on her shoulder, it should be able to break her out of genjutsu by disrupting her chakra (like what Chiyo and Sakura did to break Naruto out of 30% Itachi's genjutsu).  And while Sasuke is faster than Sakura, sooner or later she'll get a lucky hit in, and one hit from War Arc Sakura is all it takes to end someone who's not a durability/regen monster.


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## Mercurial (Apr 15, 2016)

Mithos said:


> Lol at Sasuke blitzing her.
> 
> Sakura managed to not get caught right away by Kaguya's arms, which Naruto said was super fast. Hebi Sasuke couldn't even blitz Deidara, who was trolled by Sai. Even Taka Sasuke was reacted to and blocked by Darui's water wall, and portrayal-wise Sakura is on a completely different level than the Kage body-guards.



Sakura couldn't do anything. That's exactly why Kakashi had to jump in to save her with Perfect Susanoo, and Sasuke and Naruto were afraid for her before Kakashi saved her. Because if he didn't, Sakura would have been killed. She just witnessed she was going to be caught, tried to move away, but she wasn't fast enough. Nothing impressive. 

The same Sakura showed she couldn't move away from the Juubi's Mokuton: Sashiki no jutsu, and needed to be saved from Kakashi. She showed she wasn't faster or with better reactions that a common Shinobi Alliance member.



Someone who Sasuke would blitz and chop in pieces with no diff at all.



Saru said:


> Sakura takes this with moderate to high difficulty IMO. I never really understood why people that thought Hebi Sasuke would be able to low-diff this version of Sakura *when he probably can't even kill her outside of Kirin* (note: *Tsunade survived bisection with Katsuyu, which Sakura has*) and it's questionable whether or not that jutsu would even be enough to bust Katsuyu. Actually, I kind of doubt that Kirin is powerful enough to destroy Katsuyu because Itachi seemed to block Kirin with V1 / V2 Susano'o--the same form of Susano'o that Tsunade busted open with a kick.​



Far better speed + Sharingan precognition + Sharingan genjutsu + Chidori Nagashi paralysis make sure that Sasuke is landing a Chidori on Sakura's face or a Chidorigatana slash to cut her head off. And that's killing her for sure.

Survived bisection... and was completely unable to fight back for a long time, only managing to summon Katsuyu some time later. So anyone who could bisect Tsunade or Sakura (something Hebi Sasuke has both the stats and the skillset to do easily), would only have to finish the defenseless enemy who is standing on the ground with the body bisected. Not much a challenge I'd say.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

There's no wank going on with Sakura here. War Arc Sakura was portrayed being able to at least compete with Naruto and Sasuke in the War Arc to a decent extent and implied to have surpassed Tsunade at least in terms of physical strength. Her losing to Hebi Sasuke is laughable, Hebi Sasuke has literally only barely won every battle he was in and even so that only happened because his opponents were at a disadvantage or they let him win. Hebi Sasuke is the only one being "wanked" here.


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## Saru (Apr 15, 2016)

Raikiri19 said:


> Far better speed + Sharingan precognition + Sharingan genjutsu + Chidori Nagashi paralysis make sure that Sasuke is landing a Chidori on Sakura's face or a Chidorigatana slash to cut her head off. And that's killing her for sure.
> 
> Survived bisection... and was completely unable to fight back for a long time, only managing to summon Katsuyu some time later. So anyone who could bisect Tsunade or Sakura (something Hebi Sasuke has both the stats and the skillset to do easily), would only have to finish the defenseless enemy who is standing on the ground with the body bisected. Not much a challenge I'd say.




You didn't address Katsuyu.

Also, I'm not quite sure why this is the case, but you seem to have an overemphasis on speed in almost every single one of your posts that I've glanced over. "Blitzing" is not really a thing in high-level battles. Just having Sharingan precognition and good speed doesn't enable a character to blitz... Well anyone at the Kage-level. "Blitzing" has never been a theme of the manga, so I'm not sure why you try to force the concept into all of your posts. Unless a high-level (i.e. Kage-level) battle involves someone like Minato, whose fighting revolves around speed, "blitzing" probably isn't going to happen.​


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> There's no wank going on with Sakura here. War Arc Sakura was portrayed being able to at least compete with Naruto and Sasuke in the War Arc to a decent extent and implied to have surpassed Tsunade at least in terms of physical strength. Her losing to Hebi Sasuke is laughable, Hebi Sasuke has literally only barely won every battle he was in and even so that only happened because his opponents were at a disadvantage or they let him win. Hebi Sasuke is the only one being "wanked" here.



you think failkura is on the level of war arc naruto and sasuke ? 
i better log out 



Saru said:


> You didn't address Katsuyu.​



genjutsu bye bye


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## Lord Aizen (Apr 15, 2016)

15 meters that's a similar distance sasuke had with deidara. With full knowledge sasuke mid diffs. And who said Sakura will have time to summon Katsuyu. Once the match starts sasuke goes CS1, barrages Sakura with ration shirukens, forcing her to try to evade them as sasuke closes the distance he uses chidori nagashi and chidori sharp spear cutting her to pieces. 

Even if she summon Katsuyu sasuke can summon manda put him in genjutsu and get manda to fight for him. Sakura is never landing a punch on curse seal sasuke and with oral rebirth any damage he gets is gone


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## Saru (Apr 15, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> genjutsu bye bye




Katsuyu can split, so that's not likely to work.



> i better log out


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## Trojan (Apr 15, 2016)

Amol said:


> People can wank Kakashi to heaven for his bullshit feats against God tiers but Sakura loses to even likes of Hebi.
> Do you guys even portrayal?
> Smh.



Their hypocrisy is over the top. 

Even tho if they will take the amount of BS that happened in Kaguya's battle. Sakura's chakra was strong enough to open holes in Kaguya's freaking S/T jutsu several times. Even tho just moments earlier she was running out of chakra when she was trying to save Narudo.

Shouldn't that make her chakra-level probably on par with Juubi's hosts characters? Lol
As Obtio said even Narudo's clone chakra is not going to be enough.

And then there is her movement from Kaguya's tails. I guess Sasuke is faster than Kaguya now?

If they want to wank Sakura as they do Kakashi from Kaguya's battle, Hebi Sasuke is the only one who is going to get blitzed here.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> you think failkura is on the level of war arc naruto and sasuke ?
> i better log out



Not exactly on their level, comparable to Naruto in KCM and EMS Sasuke (No Susanoo) at least.


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## Mercurial (Apr 15, 2016)

Saru said:


> You didn't address Katsuyu.
> 
> Also, I'm not quite sure why this is the case, but you seem to have an overemphasis on speed in almost every single one of your posts that I've glanced over. "Blitzing" is not really a thing in high-level battles. Just having Sharingan precognition and good speed doesn't enable a character to blitz... Well anyone at the Kage-level. "Blitzing" has never been a theme of the manga, so I'm not sure why you try to force the concept into all of your posts. Unless a high-level (i.e. Kage-level) battle involves someone like Minato, whose fighting revolves around speed, "blitzing" probably isn't going to happen.​



Katsuyu isn't that much of a game changer, if at all.

More speed = more chances to avoid the enemy's hits and land one's hits. More speed + precognition = even more chances to do so. More speed + precognition + various tricks and what not = really a very great advantage. 

And if your hits are deadly, well, you're really on top.


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Not exactly on their level, comparable to Naruto in KCM and EMS Sasuke (No Susanoo) at least.



lol no , not even close , she was just portrayed to be able to take care of her self and not get her ass saved by them .......again 
and in the same chapter , she needed to be saved by them again lol


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> lol no , not even close , she was just portrayed to be able to take care of her self and not get her ass saved by them .......again
> and in the same chapter , she needed to be saved by them again lol



The portrayal of Byakugo Sakura fighting alongside KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke alone is enough to put her above any incarnation of Naruto and Sasuke aside from Sage Mode Naruto and Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke from the Pain and Five Kage Summit Arcs respectively imo.  Not really seeing what Hebi Sasuke has on her aside from speed and range that can easily be circumvented by punching the ground and summoning Katsuyu.


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> The portrayal of Byakugo Sakura fighting alongside KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke alone is enough to put her above any incarnation of Naruto and Sasuke aside from Sage Mode Naruto and Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke from the Pain and Five Kage Summit Arcs respectively imo.  Not really seeing what Hebi Sasuke has on her aside from speed and range that can easily be circumvented by punching the ground and summoning Katsuyu.



punching the ground lol , best argument ever 
and lol , war arc sasuke and naruto wreck her in base
lets see now :
speed , sasuke 
strengh , sakura 
reactions , sasuke 
stamina , don't know , sakura ?
genjutsu 
kenjutsu 
ninjutsu 
taijutsu , i mean actual taijutsu skills , not just hulk smash hurr durr , sasuke 
precognition 
healing , sakura but i don't think it's at tsunade's level , and she can't regenerat her head anyway
shurikenjutsu 
durability , sasuke in CS2


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> punching the ground lol , best argument ever
> and lol , war arc sasuke and naruto wreck her in base
> lets see now :
> speed , sasuke
> ...



What is Hebi Sasuke going to do when the fight starts and Sakura does this immediately? He will get blown away and end up with a concussion. Then she can summon Katsuyu and together they'd be able to overwhelm him as all he could is run. 

Sasuke's speed isn't great enough to blitz her, if Deidara, a guy without any notable physical prowess or Taijutsu skill is able to avoid Sasuke's strike then Sakura can do it too and then retaliate with a punch that'd knock him away and allow her to summon Katsuyu. 

Sasuke's Genjutsu will likely be quickly broken while Byakugo is active or Katsuyu could do it. Kenjutsu doesn't matter because he wont hit her, same goes for Taijutsu, and anything CQC related. If he doesn't want to immediately die he will not be able to engage her in CQC, he'll have to attack from a range. His Katon can literally be smacked away, his Raiton revolves around Chidori so he'd have to get close to use it, precognition wont help him much here because either way he cannot get close, and shurikenjutsu is entirely useless.


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## Arcana (Apr 15, 2016)

People thinking sakura can summon katsuyu 
before getting amaterasu to the face


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## Android (Apr 15, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> What is Hebi Sasuke going to do when the fight starts and Sakura does this immediately? He will get blown away and end up with a concussion. Then she can summon Katsuyu and together they'd be able to overwhelm him as all he could is run.
> 
> Sasuke's speed isn't great enough to blitz her, if Deidara, a guy without any notable physical prowess or Taijutsu skill is able to avoid Sasuke's strike then Sakura can do it too and then retaliate with a punch that'd knock him away and allow her to summon Katsuyu.
> 
> Sasuke's Genjutsu will likely be quickly broken while Byakugo is active or Katsuyu could do it. Kenjutsu doesn't matter because he wont hit her, same goes for Taijutsu, and anything CQC related. If he doesn't want to immediately die he will not be able to engage her in CQC, he'll have to attack from a range. His Katon can literally be smacked away, his Raiton revolves around Chidori so he'd have to get close to use it, precognition wont help him much here because either way he cannot get close, and shurikenjutsu is entirely useless.



your post is a big fail 
does sakura has any real speed reaction feats to begin with 
for fuck sake she was about to be blitzed by exhausted blind sasuke if naruto didn't save her ass as usual 
base naruto was handing karui and omui when she was still trying to figure out what was going on
and before you say that wasn't war arc suckura , no , she didn't show any better reaction speed feats in the war then her pain arc or gaara arc version 
and you have also failed to explain how will sakura land a finger on sasuke , his faster , more agile , and has sharingan precog and his chidori current 
just like you have failed to explain how she'll overwhelm him in taijutsu , or how she'll deal with his kenjutsu , and his sword that can cut even juubi jin madara , one strick with that sword to her shitty head and she's done 
don't know how the fuck will he get a concussion , when he survived deidara's explosions 
and if you even think that sakura can simply punching the ground then , you need a reality check boy


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## Empathy (Apr 15, 2016)

I think Hebi Sasuke wins, though he'll probably need _Kirin_ to put her down. Sasuke's greater speed, sharingan precognition, genjutsu, _Chidori Nagashi_, and snake summons give him a huge edge to land more hits in close-quarters, but I don't think he can do anything to keep her down with _Byakugo_ active. Sakura's a lot slower, but when she does connect, it'll be a lot more devastating to Sasuke. Senjutsu durability and Orochimaru's _kawarimi_ should prevent him from getting one-shotted, though. I think both parallel their Sannin counterparts and therefore the fight should be close, with Sasuke ultimately needing _Kirin_ to win.


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 15, 2016)

Arcana said:


> People thinking sakura can summon katsuyu
> before getting amaterasu to the face



This is Hebi Sasuke, not Taka Sasuke, there isn't any Amaterasu here.



cctr9 said:


> your post is a big fail
> does sakura has any real speed reaction feats to begin with
> for fuck sake she was about to be blitzed by exhausted blind sasuke if naruto didn't save her ass as usual
> base naruto was handing karui and omui when she was still trying to figure out what was going on
> ...



Her reflexes are greater than Deidara's simply because she is Tsunade's student. Don't be ridiculous now, she was emotionally unstable and didn't expect Sasuke to kill her when he "blitzed" her as you call it. She could've killed him too but wasn't able to bring herself to do it at the last second. 

It's not about her actually hitting him, it's about him having to run for his life because Sakura is blowing the ground he's standing on apart and knocking him off balance while Katsuyu is spewing acid at him from multiple directions. Eventually he will tire or he'll get hit because he wont be able to engage her very well. Him activating CM Lvl 2 as soon as the fight starts is unlikely, but even after he does it he'll pretty much be in the same situation. Even after being hit by Deidara's bomb he was badly hurt, so he'd still get hurt here too and if he's hit directly by Katsuyu then he'd probably die.


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## Empathy (Apr 15, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> His blitz attempt on Deidara failed, who has no known physical prowess or taijutsu skill whatsoever.



He bunshin feinted in front of Team Gai while armless.


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## Clowe (Apr 16, 2016)

Sakura's gonna land a punch eventually and well... that's it, one punch is all she needs.


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 16, 2016)

If Hebi Sasuke could blitz Sakura, she literally wouldn't have even been able to see Juudara or Godsuke or Godruto because of the massive speed difference between them and Hebi Sauce. Anyway, she either punches him and makes his head explode like a grape or summons Katsuyu. There's no way in hell that she loses this.


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## $Kakashi$ (Apr 16, 2016)

Sakura was implied to have surpassed Tsunade just like Naruto surpassed Jiraiya and Sasuke surpassed Orochimaru.

Sakura >/= Tsunade >> Hebi Sasuke

But IC Sakura probably won't have the mental strength to attack or kill Sasuke, so eventually he'll win.


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## Ersa (Apr 16, 2016)

I've always seen Hebi Sasuke as a bad matchup for Sakura and Tsunade. I think Sakura is certainly comparable if not equal to Tsunade but it amounts to little here. Manda can handle Katsuyu, CS1 Sasuke has a overwhelming edge in CQC with Sharingan genjutsu and Raiton variants to make life hard and Oral Rebirth to fall back on if she gets a lucky hit.


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## Saru (Apr 16, 2016)

Sakura can probably one-punch Manda.


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## Ersa (Apr 16, 2016)

Someone with superior speed and a Cursed Seal boost (comparable to the reflex boost granted by Sharingan according to Sasuke) and 3 tomoe Sharingan is not going to notice Sakura go for his summon.

He can slice her arm off with a senjutsu-powered Eisou.


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## Zef (Apr 16, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Is that so?
> 
> Why do  you not wank Sakura for hitting Kaguya like you wank Kakashi? Wasn't she portrayed to be on the same level as Kaguya, and stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke (using your logic of course)
> 
> ...



  +rep 

I love this post. Why can't I rep you twice? 

Kakashi tags Kaguya and he's faster & stronger then Sasuke. Sakura does the same and she's fodder. These fanboys logic  


OT: I don't know who wins.  
But I'm leaning towards Sakura.


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## Saru (Apr 16, 2016)

Someone who can create Bijuu-sized shockwaves and has an acid-spitting Boss Summon that can clone herself is going to have trouble splitting up Sasuke and Manda. 

Sasuke can't even get within range to use Eisou.





Empathy said:


> I think Hebi Sasuke wins, though he'll probably need _Kirin_ to put her down. Sasuke's greater speed, sharingan precognition, genjutsu, _Chidori Nagashi_, and snake summons give him a huge edge to land more hits in close-quarters, but I don't think he can do anything to keep her down with _Byakugo_ active. Sakura's a lot slower, but when she does connect, it'll be a lot more devastating to Sasuke. Senjutsu durability and Orochimaru's _kawarimi_ should prevent him from getting one-shotted, though. I think both parallel their Sannin counterparts and therefore the fight should be close, with Sasuke ultimately needing _Kirin_ to win.




Just of curiosity, what version of Itachi's Susano'o do you think Kirin destroyed, and how highly do you rate Katsuyu's durability? She already survived Chibaku Tensei. And that was probably .01% of Katsuyu.
​


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## Isaiah13000 (Apr 16, 2016)

Empathy said:


> He bunshin feinted in front of Team Gai while armless.



Chapter please?



Ersa said:


> I've always seen Hebi Sasuke as a bad matchup for Sakura and Tsunade. I think Sakura is certainly comparable if not equal to Tsunade but it amounts to little here. Manda can handle Katsuyu, CS1 Sasuke has a overwhelming edge in CQC with Sharingan genjutsu and Raiton variants to make life hard and Oral Rebirth to fall back on if she gets a lucky hit.



If Manda bites and swallows a part of Katsuyu then she will literally flood his insides with acid and kill him in seconds. Snake > Toad > Slug > Snake is how the order goes, Manda cannot harm Katsuyu and Sakura can probably one-shot him with a punch. How can Sasuke get close to her and try to hit her if one punch from her can tear the whole area apart. How does "precognition" help him when he cannot get close to her? If he gets punched even once then I doubt he can use Oral Rebirth, he'd be one-shotted.



Saru said:


> Someone who can create Bijuu-sized shockwaves and has an acid-spitting Boss Summon that can clone herself is going to have trouble splitting up Sasuke and Manda.
> 
> Sasuke can't even get within range to use Eisou.
> 
> ...



Katsuyu has also survived KN4 - KN6 Naruto's corrosive chakra cloak, Chou Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei, and has stated that she can survive getting torn apart just fine. Her durability is probably among the highest in the series imo.


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## $Kakashi$ (Apr 16, 2016)

IC Sakura won't have the mental strength to attack Sasuke-koon.


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## FlamingRain (Apr 16, 2016)

Empathy said:


> He bunshin feinted in front of Team Gai while armless.



There would be plenty of cover in an environment such as a forest, though.

Deidara was even shown running _around_ one of those nearby trees.


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## Ashi (Apr 16, 2016)

Mithos said:


> Lol at Sasuke blitzing her.
> 
> Sakura managed to not get caught right away by Kaguya's arms, which Naruto said was super fast. Hebi Sasuke couldn't even blitz Deidara, who was trolled by Sai. Even Taka Sasuke was reacted to and blocked by Darui's water wall, and portrayal-wise Sakura is on a completely different level than the Kage body-guards.



There's a lot of poorly used power scaling in this post 


While I don't see Sakura being outright blitzed, she isn't going to tag Sasuke in any close range combat anytime soon


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## Mithos (Apr 16, 2016)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> There's a lot of poorly used power scaling in this post
> 
> 
> While I don't see Sakura being outright blitzed, she isn't going to tag Sasuke in any close range combat anytime soon



She doesn't need to tag him. He isn't avoiding her AoE in close combat.


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 16, 2016)

Hating Sakura doesn't change her powerlevel. Saying she's Jonin or low Kage level is ignorant and/ or biased imo.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Apr 16, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Chapter please?



The feint itself is in Chapter 277..  He bites off a piece of his clay bird here and appears to explode. You can see that Team Gai and Kakashi were right in front of him when he did it--close enough that Kakashi used Kamui to warp away the explosion because he didn't think they'd be able to get out of the blast range in time.


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## Skaddix (Apr 16, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Hating Sakura doesn't change her powerlevel. Saying she's Jonin or low Kage level is ignorant and/ or biased imo.



Please, its totally fair. She is not fast and she doesn't have Tsunade's Resilsance/Stamina Bonus from being an Uzamaki/Senju.


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## Ersa (Apr 16, 2016)

Saru said:


> Someone who can create Bijuu-sized shockwaves and has an acid-spitting Boss Summon that can clone herself is going to have trouble splitting up Sasuke and Manda.
> 
> Sasuke can't even get within range to use Eisou.
> 
> ​



Still needs to punch to generate the shockwave. 

Seeing as her speed is also very unimpressive when you consider she needs Kakashi to save her from falling rubble. Somebody who has higher speed in base on top of double-precognition/reflex boosts is going to have a field day preventing her from punching. 

10 metres is plenty of distance.​


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## Saru (Apr 17, 2016)

Ersa said:


> Still needs to punch to generate the shockwave.
> 
> Seeing as her speed is also very unimpressive when you consider she needs Kakashi to save her from falling rubble. Somebody who has higher speed in base on top of double-precognition/reflex boosts is going to have a field day preventing her from punching.
> 
> 10 metres is plenty of distance.




*a)* You still haven't addressed *Katsuyu*.

*b)* Sasuke is not crossing 10 meters before Sakura summons Katsuyu and/or punches the ground...

*c)* Arguments that revolve around tearing down one character are usually ineffective and disingenuous.

"when you consider she needs Kakashi to save her from falling rubble [...]"

... Yeah, this sounds like both.​


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## Arles Celes (Apr 17, 2016)

My poor Sauce. 

He cannot do any lasting damage to her while Sakura with her byakugou activated can one hit kill him. And lets not even begin about Katsuyu...

He gets r*ped by her.


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## Ersa (Apr 17, 2016)

Saru said:


> *a)* You still haven't addressed *Katsuyu*.


Manda stalemates her, worst case scenario Manda + Aoda double-team her.



> *b)* Sasuke is not crossing 10 meters before Sakura summons Katsuyu and/or punches the ground...


Did it to a faster Deidara nearly so I don't see why not. Not that he really needs to stop her summoning it.



> *c)* Arguments that revolve around tearing down one character are usually ineffective and disingenuous.


Give me a reason to believe Sakura will consistently keep up with someone who can nigh-blitz someone like this. *()*

Better reason yet, give me a reason to believe she'll do fine when he adds senjutsu into the mix. Because fuck it, I'll say it CS1 Sasuke is a lot faster then a rock, possibly dozens of times faster.



> "when you consider she needs Kakashi to save her from falling rubble [...]"


It happened and it fits in line with shit like flying Kabuto knocking her lights out. Sakura and Tsunade are not fast or anything special in the reflexes department.


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## shade0180 (Apr 17, 2016)

> Manda stalemates her, worst case scenario Manda + Aoda double-team her.



You mean they get flatten by 5% katsuyu.


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## Saru (Apr 17, 2016)

Ersa said:


> Manda stalemates her, worst case scenario Manda + Aoda double-team her.




Snake *>* Frog *>* Slug *>* Snake. 

Manda can't even hurt Katsuyu because he relies solely on physical attacks, whereas Katsuyu can reduce Manda to a pile of slime with her acid. Manda can't really stalemate anything, and Hebi Sasuke doesn't have Aoda (not that he'd be of much help).



> Did it to a faster Deidara nearly so I don't see why not. Not that he really needs to stop her summoning it.




Because it's 10 meters and Sakura's reacted to faster things. Like Kaguya's chakra arms.






> Give me a reason to believe Sakura will consistently keep up with someone who can nigh-blitz someone like this. *()*
> 
> Better reason yet, give me a reason to believe she'll do fine when he adds senjutsu into the mix. Because fuck it, I'll say it CS1 Sasuke is a lot faster then a rock, possibly dozens of times faster.




Well feats like the above for one.

Feats like keeping up with the pace of her own attack, which sent one of the Juubi's parts flying.



Feats like fighting JJ Madara and Kaguya and doing decently on her own.




> It happened and it fits in line with shit like flying Kabuto knocking her lights out. Sakura and Tsunade are not fast or anything special in the reflexes department.




This thread isn't about Tsunade, so I'm not entirely sure why you brought her up. Their abilities are similar, sure, but their feats are not. I'm also not sure what panel you're referring to, but it couldn't have been one involving War Arc Sakura, which makes your comparison all the more wobbly. When Sakura is capable of making shockwaves as big as a Bijuu, speed starts to become a lot less relevant. You haven't really addressed how Sasuke would defend against Sakura's punches aside from an argument that essentially boils down to "Sasuke blitzes." Not only is that not likely to happen, it's not a defense against Sakura's punches.​


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## Ersa (Apr 17, 2016)

Saru said:


> Snake *>* Frog *>* Slug *>* Snake.
> 
> Manda can't even hurt Katsuyu because he relies solely on physical attacks, whereas Katsuyu can reduce Manda to a pile of slime with her acid. Manda can't really stalemate anything, and Hebi Sasuke doesn't have Aoda (not that he'd be of much help).​





And he dodged the acid, just because Katsuyu holds the advantage doesn't mean Manda can't put up a fight. Certainly Sasuke can defeat her before Katsuyu downs Manda.



> Because it's 10 meters and Sakura's reacted to faster things. Like Kaguya's chakra arms.


And also failed to react to slower things like Juubi Mokuton.

I honestly can't say for certain the reason other then inconsistency or somehow Base Kakashi > Juubi Mokuton > Sakura > Kaguya which quite frankly is rubbish.

I disregard it as a outlier and look at her other speed feats which are more consistent namely
- can't dodge Juubi Mokuton
- can't dodge Karui
- can't dodge flying Kabuto

It's more believable then her suddenly having god like speed.



> Feats like keeping up with the pace of her own attack, which sent one of the Juubi's parts flying.


Deidara feat is more impressive in my eyes especially if we consider these Juubi fodder are fodder to well the K11. Not even remotely impressive and not Kage-class.



> Feats like fighting JJ Madara and Kaguya and doing decently on her own.


She never did anything to JJ Madara, he didn't see a reason to dodge her attack and she was timely saved by two of the fastest characters in the series. The Kaguya feat is dubious and a complete outlier when compared to her other speed feats.



> When Sakura is capable of making shockwaves as big as a Bijuu, speed starts to become a lot less relevant. You haven't really addressed how Sasuke would defend against Sakura's punches aside from an argument that essentially boils down to "Sasuke blitzes."


As I said, why not just cut off her arm?

Base Sasuke is faster then Sakura
Sasuke has pre-cognition
Sasuke has another reflex boost ()

Sakura is not going to tank a senjutsu-Eisou. She can try regenerate the arm but that gives him ample time to genjutsu her or chop off her head. And yes I am off the opinion beheading is better then Byakagou.​


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## Jackalinthebox (Apr 17, 2016)

Who do you guys think is faster, SPSM Naruto or V2 Ei?


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Apr 17, 2016)

Didn't Katsuyu escape from Manda by splitting into a million little slugs right after that moment, though?


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## Empathy (Apr 17, 2016)

Saru said:


> Just of curiosity, what version of Itachi's Susano'o do you think Kirin destroyed, and how highly do you rate Katsuyu's durability? She already survived Chibaku Tensei. And that was probably .01% of Katsuyu.
> ​



I don't think Itachi can instantly bring forth a fully armored _Susanoo_, so it had to be v3 or less, which I feel is consistent, because the attack is somewhat less than a mountain-buster and it did enough damage through _Susanoo_ to burn Itachi's outer-layer of clothes and nearly kill him. It was probably something in between v3 and a v2 full skeleton (which is the most he's instantly conjured), as obviously the ribs would be insufficient. I don't think Katsuyu survived _Chibaku Tensei_ with only .01% being that resistant, because she was in Naruto's clothes and Naruto's clothes were undamaged; obviously the cloak was protecting her, but the corrosive part didn't affect his clothes. I do, however, believe she protected the village from _Chou Shinra Tensei_. 

I don't think that means she can save Sakura from _Kirin_ though, nor do I think Sakura would be able to summon her and climb inside her in time. _Kirin_ striking down on her is likely to at least tear _Katsuyu_ in half and incinerate the part that's hit (assuming all of her isn't just enveloped), because she's not as resistant to it a vaporizing attack like that, as she is to the blunt force concussive damage of _Chou Shinra Tensei_. To kill Sakura's regeneration, Sasuke needs to annihilate her without leaving her anything to regenerate from (similar to how Orochimaru admitted KN4's _Bijuudama_ would kill him); that sort of thing can be accomplished by _Kirin_, but can't be with _Chou Shinra Tensei_ (or with _Chibaku Tensei_ for that matter, as she'd just be crushed and unable to get out until she suffocates).


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## Empathy (Apr 19, 2016)

Saru said:


> Personally, I think that Itachi conjured V1 / V2 Susano'o to block Kirin. Kirin lacks the feats to suggest that it's as potent as I feel some claim.​



There is absolutely no reason for Itachi to see this [1] staring back at him and not bring forth the best defense he possibly can in the short time he has to mount a defense. With that in mind, you'd have to prove that Itachi only had time to form v1 or v2 _Susanoo_ (he's not going to see that and think, "_I can get by just using the ribs_))," which we know is not true. [1] I think Itachi survived it using that level of _Susanoo_, because it's the most he's shown he can conjure instantly. Only EMS users have instantly brought forth v4 _Susanoo_. I also think think that level is consistent with Itachi barely surviving _Kirin_, as Danzo could bust a hole in fully-formed v3 _Susanoo_ using a fuuton combo (compared to _Kirin_ annihilating the whole thing and burning Itachi's clothes off). 



> It busted a mountain, yes, but that's largely due the fact that Kirin is _big_. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean more potent, and Kirin destroyed nothing that I would think one of Itachi's Goukakyuu (which can create craters in the earth) incapable of destroying if it was used on a similar scale. In comparison to Susano'o, mountains aren't particularly durable​.



Vaporizing a mountain is what's used to quantify standard _Bijuudamas_. _Susanoo_ isn't surviving a _Bijuudama_ with anything less than v4, and even that's debatable. Now _Kirin_ obviously isn't as strong as _Bijuudama_, because it doesn't vaporize mountains; my point is that mountain busting is nothing to scoff at. This [1] (shaving off a few layers of dirt) isn't busting a mountain even if increased in scale. 



> Jiraiya is said to be able to destroy mountains with his Senpou: Chou Oodama Rasengan as I recall, and Madara Uchiha took Base Naruto's Oodama Rasengan rather well with V1 Susano'o.



Specifically, it says, "," which it did not explode against Edo Madara. It was eating away at the ribs, but then Madara conjured a higher form to blow away the _Kage Bunshin_. [1] [2] Furthermore, you're comparing Jiraiya's _*Senpou:* Chou Oodama Rasengan_ to base Naruto's _Chou Oodama Rasengan_, which is a huge distinction. The DB is also prone to hyperbole. Naruto's _Senpou: Chou Oodama Rasengan_ was overpowered by the Kyuubi's tail (in Naruto's mind-scape, no less). [1] The Kyuubi's tails are also said to crumble mountains and cause tsunamis in hyperbole. [1] If the Kyuubi were to whip one of its tails at the Uchiha hideout, I don't see it causing the same level of destruction as _Kirin_.



> Additionally, Sasuke's Kirin would be weaker and/or more difficult to prepare than when Sasuke used it against Itachi due to not benefiting from the heat of Amaterasu. Like Susano'o, Katsuyu is far more durable than a building or a mere mountain, so I have no reason to believe that Sasuke's weakened Kirin would be potent enough to completely obliterate Katsuyu.​



The heat was used to create cumulonimbus clouds, so the addition of _Amaterasu's_ heat likely only expedited the process of the clouds forming. If Sasuke kept firing more katons in the sky, I don't think it would grow proportionally stronger; only cause a thunderstorm to form quicker. What evidence is there that Katsuyu would be unfazed by a mountain buster, or that she's more durable than a mountain? Whether all of her would be completely erased isn't pertinent, as it only has to get through to reach Sakura. 



> I don't think that the nature of Kirin would exceed Katsuyu's durability either, especially when you consider the fact that Katsuyu should be able to buffer the effects of vaporization by actively healing (and even if Katsuyu cannot heal herself, Sakura should be able to heal Katsuyu).​



She'd have to heal after the fact and can't heal if she's dead. It's not like _Byakugo_, which is passive regeneration. 



> Furthermore, I doubt that Sasuke would even be capable of preparing Kirin when avoiding Sakura's Oukashou, as Oukashou is the perfect technique to literally throw off an opponent's balance (quite literally) and prevent them from making hand seals and/or using ninjutsu. Also, Sasuke's Kirin would again either require more preparation or be less powerful (or both) without the heat of Amaterasu, and if the former is the case, then Sasuke will have an even harder time finding the opportunity to use Kirin. Sasuke's other ninjutsu such as Goukakyuu and Raiton variants aren't going to of much help against Sakura either, as she can bat away the former a la Tsunade and avoid the latter altogether by using Oukashou, which has superior range.​



Sasuke can fly, so loosing his footing shouldn't be a big problem. I don't think there's evidence that Sakura's fast enough to preempt hand-seals like Mifune, or that she's fast enough to block every katon shot in the air, not even aimed at her. If Sakura's tries this, Sasuke can easily outsmart her. He has many lethal close-quarters seal-less jutsu in _Chidori Nagashi_, sharingan genjutsu, and poisonous _Jagei Jubaku_ that can be used to circumvent her.


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## Saru (Apr 19, 2016)

Empathy said:


> There is absolutely no reason for Itachi to see this [1] staring back at him and not bring forth the best defense he possibly can in the short time he has to mount a defense. With that in mind, you'd have to prove that Itachi only had time to form v1 or v2 _Susanoo_ (he's not going to see that and think, "_I can get by just using the ribs_))," which we know is not true. [1] I think Itachi survived it using that level of _Susanoo_, because it's the most he's shown he can conjure instantly. Only EMS users have instantly brought forth v4 _Susanoo_. I also think think that level is consistent with Itachi barely surviving _Kirin_, as Danzo could bust a hole in fully-formed v3 _Susanoo_ using a fuuton combo (compared to _Kirin_ annihilating the whole thing and burning Itachi's clothes off).




Kirin was stated to be a lightspeed attack in the Third Databook, and it was compared to Amaterasu by Zetsu in the context of being unavoidable. No Susano'o user has ever shown the ability to prepare or charge higher level forms of Susano'o preemptively (and if that were possible, then Itachi's Susano'o probably wouldn't have gotten destroyed by Kirin at all, nor would he have gotten skewered by Kabuto's Muki Tensei when saving Sasuke). The highest version of Susano'o that Itachi's ever brought forth in the amount of time comparable to that it took for Kirin to travel (1/1000th of a second--again, according to Zetsu) is V1 Susano'o. Kabuto's logically snakes don't move anywhere near the speed of Kirin, nor do they have any of the speed hype that Kirin had, so I don't know how you'd conclude that Itachi would be able to form V3 Susano'o in the time that it took for lightning to flash before his eyes. Sasuke didn't see Itachi form Susano'o either, so we know that Itachi wasn't activating it while he was watching Kirin swell in Sasuke's hands before him. Therefore, the most the Itachi would have been able to form in that time is V1 / V2 Susano'o, and the fact that Itachi had the Susano'o Rib Cage around his body when explaining how he survived (i.e. "_Without_ *this*_, I would have been obliterated."_) suggests that the form of Susano'o Itachi used to counter Kirin was the one which was shown. The fact that Itachi's Susano'o is halfway between V2 and V3 in the scan you referenced along with the fact that Itachi was unable to protect himself and Sasuke from Muki Tensei at the same time shows that V1 Susano'o (or, conversely, a V2 Susano'o limb) is the most that Itachi can "instantaneously" form at one time, not higher forms like V2 and V3.




> Vaporizing a mountain is what's used to quantify standard _Bijuudamas_. _Susanoo_ isn't surviving a _Bijuudama_ with anything less than v4, and even that's debatable. Now _Kirin_ obviously isn't as strong as _Bijuudama_, because it doesn't vaporize mountains; my point is that mountain busting is nothing to scoff at. This [1] (shaving off a few layers of dirt) isn't busting a mountain even if increased in scale.




Character statements and the strength of the user are also used to quantify the power of Bijuudama, and unlike Kirin, which requires little to no chakra for the user to activate, Bijuudama are characterized by an extremely high density of potent Bijuu chakra. Bijuudama in general have far more statements endorsing their destructive capacity than Kirin, and logically the users all have more potent chakra than Hebi Sasuke. Certainly, I'm not scoffing at Kirin's destructive capacity, but the only measure of that destructive capacity (aside from Susano'o, whose form that was destroyed is being contested) is literally a hunk of rock. As you pointed out, Kirin doesn't _vaporize_ mountains, but bust them. If Katsuyu was merely busted, by Kirin, I don't think that Sakura would receive any more injuries than Itachi did after dealing with the aftermath of Kirin, or than Kakashi did after receiving Atsugai: damaged or destroyed clothing. This is more likely when you consider that Sakura can actively buffer against the rate of vaporization with the rate of healing afforded by Byakagou.




> Specifically, it says, "," which it did not explode against Edo Madara. It was eating away at the ribs, but then Madara conjured a higher form to blow away the _Kage Bunshin_. [1] [2] Furthermore, you're comparing Jiraiya's _*Senpou:* Chou Oodama Rasengan_ to base Naruto's _Chou Oodama Rasengan_, which is a huge distinction. The DB is also prone to hyperbole. Naruto's _Senpou: Chou Oodama Rasengan_ was overpowered by the Kyuubi's tail (in Naruto's mind-scape, no less). [1] The Kyuubi's tails are also said to crumble mountains and cause tsunamis in hyperbole. [1] If the Kyuubi were to whip one of its tails at the Uchiha hideout, I don't see it causing the same level of destruction as _Kirin_.




I realize that Jiraiya's Sage Rasengan is stronger than Base Naruto Chou Oodama Rasengan, but my point is that Kirin and Jiraiya's Rasengan are roughly comparable in terms of what they're stated to be able to do or have been shown to do in canon. Surely if Madara had used V2 Susano'o against Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasengan, it would have taken Naruto's attack better than V1 Susano'o. As for the Kyuubi, I think that Kurama's tails could definitely cause the same level of destruction as Kirin if Kurama swiped one or two of them. 




> The heat was used to create cumulonimbus clouds, so the addition of _Amaterasu's_ heat likely only expedited the process of the clouds forming. If Sasuke kept firing more katons in the sky, I don't think it would grow proportionally stronger; only cause a thunderstorm to form quicker. What evidence is there that Katsuyu would be unfazed by a mountain buster, or that she's more durable than a mountain? Whether all of her would be completely erased isn't pertinent, as it only has to get through to reach Sakura.




Why wouldn't Kirin grow stronger in the presence of Amaterasu? If there are more clouds present, then there should be a greater quantity of energy for Sasuke to draw from since those clouds are the source of Kirin's power. Kirin had to have either grown stronger or formed faster thanks to Amaterasu--or did both. 

Katsuyu's Bunshin tanked Nagato's Konoha-sized Shinra Tensei, which you seemed to agree was a legitimate durability feat for Katsuyu. I have absolutely no reason to believe that a mountain could tank Nagato's Shinra Tensei considering it formed a massive crater in the face of the earth. Katsuyu didn't get blown apart by Shinra Tensei either; the force of Shinra Tensei wasn't enough to overcome the combination of Katsuyu's durable body and whatever force was keeping the Konoha civilians inside of her parts. I explained how I think Sakura would be affected by Kirin above; I don't think that she'd suffer anything more than damaged clothing with Byakugou activated.





> She'd have to heal after the fact and can't heal if she's dead. It's not like _Byakugo_, which is passive regeneration.




I don't quite get you. Why would Sakura have to wait until after the fact to actively pump chakra into and heal Katsuyu?




> Sasuke can fly, so loosing his footing shouldn't be a big problem.




That's a good thing, because the size of Sakura's Oukashou shockwave was so massive that Sasuke would be sent flying if he's anywhere near her. It's not merely the ground that's affected by Sakura's Byakugou-enhanced Oukashou. The entire area around her is affected. It's not something that Sasuke can save himself from by gliding. Additionally, none of his Chidori variants would be useful if Sakura continued to use Oukashou, as the range of her Oukashou is vastly superior to any of Sasuke's Raiton Techniques.​


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