# Rosetta mission scientist Dr Matt Taylor cries during apology over sexist shirt



## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

> Rosetta mission scientist Dr Matt Taylor cries during apology over 'offensive' shirt
> 
> Rosetta scientist Dr Matt Taylor breaks down as he says he made "a big mistake" by wearing a shirt during the mission's live stream featuring cartoon images of women wearing bondage gear and firing guns
> Sarah Knapton
> ...





Scientist helps land the first ever rocket on a comet, a feat that is a giant step for scientific discovery and what is it the media latches on? A tacky shirt for being "sexist." Guy is literally driven to tears because he fears an e-lynch mob is going to ruin his career and reputation.

Fun fact: The shirt was given to him by a FEMALE friend. 



And people wonder why people hate SJW's ...


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## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

Fucking ridiculous, it's a god damn shirt.


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## Zaru (Nov 14, 2014)

Humanity's space ventures are going to fail if even a single one of these permanently resentful, indignant cretins gets on board of a spaceship.


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## Mael (Nov 14, 2014)

^Maybe we can put them on a spaceship headed towards the sun?

I only hope he was putting on a show.

But hey internet feminism never gave a fuck about the progress of humanity.  It has the word man in it and thus is a cishet shitlord term.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

There was nothing for him to apologize for.


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## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Europe.


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## Agmaster (Nov 14, 2014)

Latest and gentleman....  A war for social justice is one filled with tears.  Elly Prizeman is a sexist pig and the real evil one here.  That guy was just her patsy.


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## Zaru (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> Europe.



The pointless internet commentary or the crying?


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

He shouldn't have apologised. It's funny how things go around in a circle; from demanding freedom to crushing the freedom of others.

Also, I'm to call a spade a spade, I find it funny that people are trying to link his behaviour to the low number of women in society. It's like people are determined to blame anything but the core issue. It's like they don't realise that they should perhaps focus on their ability to deal with any small sleight; you know, so that they have the fortitude to work through actual issues.


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## Disquiet (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't fully understand what exactly about the shirt broadcasts the view that women are unwelcome in science.


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## Subarashii (Nov 14, 2014)

Aww I feel bad for him now 

Poor guy doesn't have any fashion sense but he's super smart and helping scientific advancement. 
All this press he could hire someone ELSE to dress him!


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## Atlas (Nov 14, 2014)

This guy's awesome wardrobe seems to be more important than the actual fucking science achievement. Stay classy, planet earth.


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## The Weeknd (Nov 14, 2014)

Fucking feminists, such garbage specimen.


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## Hozukimaru (Nov 14, 2014)

BrianTheGoldfish said:


> I don't fully understand what exactly about the shirt broadcasts the view that women are unwelcome in science.



"All women are good for is firing guns and wearing sexy outfits." Or it's just a reason for people to bitch. I didn't even notice the guy's shirt until people started mention shit about it. People wear colorful shirts all the time.



Zaru said:


> The pointless internet commentary or the crying?



Well the first caused the second.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2014)

What a little bitch. He shouldn't have apologized like that and definitely shouldn't have cried. This is no different than the hysteria of the Salem Witch Trials, and he's prostrating himself before the altar of crazy feminists.

These people are uptight, pious church ladies.


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## Orochibuto (Nov 14, 2014)

Its a fucking shirt, give me a break!


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## Zaru (Nov 14, 2014)

BrianTheGoldfish said:


> I don't fully understand what exactly about the shirt broadcasts the view that women are unwelcome in science.



Some dude in science wears a shirt with hot women -> This means that "women" are going to feel like they will be objectified and lusted over by unattractive nerds -> Women apparently cannot get into any field where there are such men because it hurts their feelings

This shit is more disrespective of actual women in science than the guy's shirt could ever be.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Nov 14, 2014)

tumblr feminisim at work.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 14, 2014)

SJW's say no science allowed.


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## Mael (Nov 14, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> SJW's say no science allowed.



Unless women are dominating those fields.


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## HaxHax (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> Europe.



55% of all "shirtstorm" tweets came from the US. Europe barely pulled 25%.


Ladies and Gentlemen...

The United States.


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## Zaru (Nov 14, 2014)

Megaharrison said:


> SJW's say no science allowed.



We must destroy outdated notions like women caring more about fashion than science by shi(r)tstorming over a guy's shirt rather than his scientific contributions.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2014)

This guy is going to go down in history as 

"_*The guy with the offensive shirt*_," rather than 

"*The Project Scientist for the Rosetta program that helped complete the first ever spacecraft landing on a comet*,"


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

The tweets I found that were critical of the shirt weren't all that demanding. They basically amounted to "Hey dude, that shirt is kinda giving the wrong message". And that's fair, if a little pointless considering the occasion.

It's basically the media blowing this up because the guy overreacted and cried in front of the camera. Honestly, if anyone comes away from that with "lol fuck the SJWs" I'm now rather inclined to label them as idiots. They're lashing out at.... nothing.

edit: And let's be clear here: I don't agree with the extent to which these "SJWs" are focusing on every little thing and being so combative. But seriously, if there's anything you guys and the radfems are in unity about, it's the fact that you are determined to spend your internet time making each other out to be the Antichrist. For such apparent emnity you're both so similarly determined to start, sustain and escalate a shitstorm out of anything.

edit2: Actually, looking at the shirt in question..... how is that sexist?


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> This guy is going to go down in history as
> 
> "_*The guy with the offensive shirt*_," rather than
> 
> "*The Project Scientist for the Rosetta program that helped complete the first ever spacecraft landing on a comet*,"



Which points towards the issue with society today. Rather than celebrate genius and achievement, people would vilify someone over trivial garbage. I've realised that people put stock in stupid crap to avoid the realisation that they are nothing special: "Look at me, I'm a good person because my shirt doesn't objectify anyone." 

No marks.


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## Subarashii (Nov 14, 2014)

I hope everyone gets this uppity when people make fun of Hilary's pantsuit, or a board member being called "pretty" during a meeting, or actors getting questions about their movies while actresses get asked about their dresses, or lists of the "sexiest ceo's alive" (male and female)


If this guy feels bad about his poorly chosen shirt, not that it was covered in scantily clad women but that it was so informal, quit calling him a kowtowing bitch


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> I hope everyone gets this uppity when people make fun of Hilary's pantsuit, or a board member being called "pretty" during a meeting, or actors getting questions about their movies while actresses get asked about their dresses, or lists of the "sexiest ceo's alive" (male and female)
> 
> 
> If this guy feels bad about his poorly chosen shirt, not that it was covered in scantily clad women but that it was so informal, quit calling him a kowtowing bitch



No one got uppity except the people that chose to focus on it and associate with a narrative of sexism and misogyny. So what the hell are you talking about?  Hilary getting made fun of a pantsuit isn't gonna have her maligned as being a manhater and misandrist, and it definitely isn't going to spread to mainstream airwaves, like this has. Your last example was stupid, actors and actresses alike get asked loads of irrelevant questions. Especially with how much celeb media culture has grown. 

He simply has nothing to apologize for, that's it. It was and always is, a mistake to cave in to those types of individuals that look for something to get outraged about.


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## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

GrimaH said:


> The tweets I found that were critical of the shirt weren't all that demanding. They basically amounted to "Hey dude, that shirt is kinda giving the wrong message". And that's fair, if a little pointless considering the occasion.
> 
> It's basically the media blowing this up because the guy overreacted and cried in front of the camera. Honestly, if anyone comes away from that with "lol fuck the SJWs" I'm now rather inclined to label them as idiots. They're lashing out at.... nothing.
> 
> ...



Then you are mistaken because nobody here would have given a damn about his shirt until he was publicly shamed over it when we should instead be celebrating this man's years of effort, genius, and hard work and literally historical scientific achievement. Instead, we have these SJW's literally character assassinating the guy because of his wardrobe.



You have people from PBS calling this guy a shitty scientist right when he made one of the biggest breakthroughs in space travel. Its the radfems and their ilk who started this nonsense. Don't blame the people when they don't simply take insults lying down.


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> *No one got uppity except the people that chose to focus on it and associate with a narrative of sexism and misogyny.* So what the hell are you talking about?



OK let's see, from the first page of this thread alone.......



Zaru said:


> Humanity's space ventures are going to fail if even a single one of these permanently resentful, indignant cretins gets on board of a spaceship.





Mael said:


> ^Maybe we can put them on a spaceship headed towards the sun?
> 
> I only hope he was putting on a show.
> 
> But hey internet feminism never gave a fuck about the progress of humanity.  It has the word man in it and thus is a cishet shitlord term.





♦Diamante♦ said:


> This guy's awesome wardrobe seems to be more important than the actual fucking science achievement. Stay classy, planet earth.





TittyNipple said:


> Fucking feminists, such garbage specimen.





MartyMcFly1 said:


> What a little bitch. He shouldn't have apologized like that and definitely shouldn't have cried. This is no different than the hysteria of the Salem Witch Trials, and he's prostrating himself before the altar of crazy feminists.
> 
> These people are uptight, pious church ladies.





Megaharrison said:


> SJW's say no science allowed.



That's 6 out of 20, from the first page alone.
So not really "no one".


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Response to actual maligning of this individual as being some sort of sexist and misogynist over the shirt he wears is the route you wanna go? On a single forum no less?

This was not news until those offended tried to make it news. So again, what the hell are you talking about?


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## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

GrimaH said:


> OK let's see, from the first page of this thread alone.......
> 
> That's 6 out of 20, from the first page alone.
> So not really "no one".



You're putting the cart before the horse. If nobody was chewing out the scientists for wearing his shirt, nobody here would be mocking these people to begin with.


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

hcheng02 said:


> Then you are mistaken because nobody here would have given a damn about his shirt until he was publicly shamed over it when we should instead be celebrating this man's years of effort, genius, and hard work and literally historical scientific achievement. Instead, we have these SJW's literally character assassinating the guy because of his wardrobe.
> 
> 
> 
> You have people from PBS calling this guy a shitty scientist right when he made one of the biggest breakthroughs in space travel. Its the radfems and their ilk who started this nonsense. Don't blame the people when they don't simply take insults lying down.



OK, I stand corrected. 1 asshole called him a "shitty scientist" (clearly quite unfounded and uncalled for). Pretty deserving to be called out. The Verge article was also overreacting IMO; I don't see that shirt as demeaning to women so much as celebrating their sexuality.

I still have reservations on people busting out the "fuck all the fems" response. Because I don't see any indication that the overreactions are from any more than a few of the more rabid radfems.


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## Subarashii (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No one got uppity except the people that chose to focus on it and associate with a narrative of sexism and misogyny. So what the hell are you talking about?  Hilary getting made fun of a pantsuit isn't gonna have her maligned as being a manhater and misandrist, and it definitely isn't going to spread to mainstream airwaves, like this has. Your last example was stupid, actors and actresses alike get asked loads of irrelevant questions. Especially with how much celeb media culture has grown.
> 
> He simply has nothing to apologize for, that's it. It was and always is, a mistake to cave in to those types of individuals that look for something to get outraged about.



Everyone in here is getting on this guy's case because he's apologizing for a shirt chosen in poor taste - getting uppity.  He's probably just a big nerd who likes anime and wore a shirt he bought as his local anime store not realizing it sends a rather inappropriate message about a top tier scientist: that the organization he's representing is unprofessional.

You act as though feminist is synonymous with manhater.  Your ignorance just leads you to your blind internet hatred of people who got on Twitter and said "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in STEM" - actual tweet

Calm down and think for minute before you start attacking everything you deem SJW.
If you guys put this much effort into something constructive that benefited society, imagine how great the world would be?


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Response to actual maligning of this individual as being some sort of sexist and misogynist over the shirt he wears is the route you wanna go? On a single forum no less?
> 
> This was not news until those offended tried to make it news. So again, what the hell are you talking about?





hcheng02 said:


> You're putting the cart before the horse. If nobody was chewing out the scientists for wearing his shirt, nobody here would be mocking these people to begin with.



I'm saying overreacting (en masse) to an overreaction (by the guy) that in itself is a response to an overreaction (by a few idiot radfems) is probably not the best fucking idea, you know what I mean? Especially after all that bullshit from GG already quite conclusively showed not a single soul on either side benefits from doing so, except from the attention seekers.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Everyone in here is getting on this guy's case because he's apologizing for a shirt chosen in poor taste - getting uppity.  He's probably just a big nerd who likes anime and wore a shirt he bought as his local anime store not realizing it sends a rather inappropriate message about a top tier scientist: that the organization he's representing is unprofessional.
> 
> You act as though feminist is synonymous with manhater.  Your ignorance just leads you to your blind internet hatred of people who got on Twitter and said "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in STEM" - actual tweet
> 
> ...



You don't know what anyone is putting their effort into first of all. Second off the reason why everyone is so upset, is because this is the epitome of first world problems.

An amazing scientist is getting browbeaten in the media for wearing a shirt that his female friend bought for him, and no feminists are calling out their own for taking such a ridiculous stance on the issue.

This entire fiasco lends credence to the idea that feminists are never satisfied and are constantly complaining about non-issues for attention.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Everyone in here is getting on this guy's case because he's apologizing for a shirt chosen in poor taste - getting uppity.  He's probably just a big nerd who likes anime and wore a shirt he bought as his local anime store not realizing it sends a rather inappropriate message about a top tier scientist: that the organization he's representing is unprofessional.



No, people have issues with those like you, who don't do their research but are ready to pounce on a person for any perceived slight. A woman made and gave him that shirt to wear. 

The women in the shirt weren't even in a style associated with anime, but way to make my point. 



> You act as though feminist is synonymous with manhater.  Your ignorance just leads you to your blind internet hatred of people who got on Twitter and said "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in STEM" - actual tweet



Feminism today is hateful, and it's not just the internet that perpetuates this. This has been a long trend in academics as well, which is why you see many people moving away from the label. Which is why most women don't identify as one. 

I take issue with maligning the guy as being sexist and misogynist for the shirt he wore, which is not an isolated incident either. Modern feminism is a toxic movement that has lost the legitimacy of its predecessors a long time ago.



> Calm down and think for minute before you start attacking everything you deem SJW.
> If you guys put this much effort into something constructive that benefited society, imagine how great the world would be?



Hilarious you say that considering your initial presumptions about this individual and his choice of clothing, so you can kindly shove it.


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 14, 2014)

dat shirt is ridiculous but nothing to cry over


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You don't know what anyone is putting their effort into first of all. Second off the reason why everyone is so upset, is because this is the epitome of first world problems.
> 
> An amazing scientist is getting browbeaten in the media for wearing a shirt that his female friend bought for him, and no feminists are calling out their own for taking such a ridiculous stance on the issue.
> 
> This entire fiasco lends credence to the idea that feminists are never satisfied and are constantly complaining about non-issues for attention.



For the record right now then, I label myself as a feminist, and I'll point out that I find the accusations of him being sexist to be ridiculous, and an overreaction.
I do think one of the tweets have a valid point about the shirt being not exactly a great idea in the context of being a rep of a NASA mission on a televised live stream. It's nitpicking yes.

And seriously, generalizations are never a good idea. That's pretty fucking basic, no matter which side you take.


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## Banhammer (Nov 14, 2014)

Only Galgebra allowed


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## Orochibuto (Nov 14, 2014)

"I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet"


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## Subarashii (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No, people have issues with those like you, who don't do their research but are ready to pounce on a person for any perceived slight. A woman made and gave him that shirt to wear.
> 
> The women in the shirt weren't even in a style associated with anime, but way to make my point.
> 
> ...



Sorry, "80's heavy metal band album cover art"

It is just the internet that perpetuates it. Unless you have some manhating IRL?
I'm sure most women who were feminists in the past and don't troll the internet still identify as feminists.  The trolls and the radicals are on the internet.  If they're bringing that radicalism into the real world then they're just misguided internet trolls.

Ya know what else is a toxic movement?  Hatred of all feminists, even the moderate ones or first and second wave.

And my initial presumption about him being a nerd, which he arguably is being a scientist and all, with bad fashion sense?  I never called him a bitch or a misogynist or a sexist scientist.   
Yeah, I stand by asking you (plural) to calm down a little.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Sorry, "80's heavy metal band album cover art"
> 
> It is just the internet that perpetuates it. Unless you have some manhating IRL?



What do you think 3rd Wave Feminism is or was? Social media has, as it has nearly all modes of thought, allowed it to have a soapbox it didn't before.



> I'm sure most women who were feminists in the past and don't troll the internet still identify as feminists.  The trolls and the radicals are on the internet.  If they're bringing that radicalism into the real world then they're just misguided internet trolls.



I know types like Sommers who try to moderate the rhetoric in the movement again, and all they get for it is their named dragged through the mud. That kind of behavior is again, not isolated. The hate that has overtaken feminism today is what drives so many people, women particularly, away from the ideology. I don't blame them, it's not the credible movement it once was. 

The internet is simply a means to express that radicalism, but it has existed for a while now.



> Ya know what else is a toxic movement?  Hatred of all feminists, even the moderate ones or first and second wave.



That is probably why most people specify third-wave/modern feminism.



> And my initial presumption about him being a nerd, which he arguably is being a scientist and all, with bad fashion sense?  I never called him a bitch or a misogynist or a sexist scientist.
> Yeah, I stand by asking you (plural) to calm down a little.



His name is getting maligned, and he himself portrayed as a sexist and as the face of a profession individuals are seeking to malign as a whole as being such. He was pressured to apologize to the point of tears, and you're asking those bothered by this to calm down? Get your priorities straight.


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

Come to think of it, why call it "modern" feminism? The core concept as it is recognised is itself pretty modern and recent.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2014)




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## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

Zaru said:


> The pointless internet commentary or the crying?


First, wearing such a ridiculous shirt to mission control on the red letter day of your entire project. I don't think it's sexist or whatever, but it looks retarded.
Second, yes, the crying.

No, not the internet histrionics. 



HaxHax said:


> 55% of all "shirtstorm" tweets came from the US. Europe barely pulled 25%.
> 
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> ...


First, I wasn't commenting on the internet backlash at all. Second, are you implying all shirtstorm tweets were negative?


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

How empowering.


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## Deleted member 198194 (Nov 14, 2014)

Shame on him for apologizing.  This just encourages the short sighted, self righteous troglodytes to keep smearing their retarded first world problems on everybody and their dog.


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## Chelydra (Nov 14, 2014)

Once again uppity women with no grasp on real world issues ruining something in the name of feminism and equality....


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## HaxHax (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> First, I wasn't commenting on the internet backlash at all. Second, are you implying all shirtstorm tweets were negative?



Don't pretend that the two things aren't connected. And no.

I'm just saying that the people who really cared weren't primarily Europeans. Why? Because, you know, it's universally known that Europe is more accommodating to sexually explicit material than anywhere else in the world.

You were so eager to talk trash about Europe that you narrowly escaped the fact that the brunt of the flak was coming from overseas. (notice how both critics cited in the article were americans?)


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## Gaawa-chan (Nov 14, 2014)

The only thing I think when I see that picture is, "Wow, that's an ugly shirt."


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## Vermilion Kn (Nov 14, 2014)

Jesus SJW smacking Christ, what has the world come to ?

The dude has to apologize for a fucking shirt ? A shirt ? And a tame one at that ? 

I bet if some feminazi was involved in this project and wore a shirt saying some man hating, women in science empowering shit no one would say a word. People need to stop giving into these professional cry babies.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

*We really need to reverse-heckle with stuff like this. Like show up in person or online and just bash feminism. Should've had at least fifty logical people like the ones in this thread crash that portion of the stream. Should've had thousands more online doing the same thing. I know I will if I ever catch on of these live steams. I don't know where these anti-feminists are; since there are so many of them, why don't they ever speak out when it's the best time to?

It's a graphic. It did't read "9/11 is my savior." It was just a girl--no matter what girl it was, even if it were his wife or Mary, there would've been backlash.*


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## Vermilion Kn (Nov 14, 2014)

Dude should have done this.



Don't fuck around, just call these people out on their stupidity.


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## Vasto Lorde King (Nov 14, 2014)

Damn, I watched this shit on the Amazing athiest channel, . And seriously fuck those feminist, Anita sarkesian, tumbler feminists and feminist bloggers are all shit.

Why don't they fucking understand that there is nothing fucking wrong with fictional sexually explicit depictment of women? I don't fucking understand what there is to be offended about. Jesus fucking christ, there is little to no fucking correlation whatsoever between the depictment of women in fiction and IRL.  It's thier fucking bullshitery and low selfesteem that makes certain proffesions a ''male'' only proffesion.

It's okay to have those fucking mysandrist  thee-cups but not a fucking shirt? Fuck them.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Dude should have done this.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't fuck around, just call these people out on their stupidity.



*Yep, but he should've been more like Mike Tyson. 

[YOUTUBE]83-ucabW-9I[/YOUTUBE]

We've got to have more people willing to stop this nonsense before it gets to the point it did with this man. I barely knew we were doing anything with a comet and now I'm mad. What he led just amazing. The people on that stream, along with him, should've shamed any-would be complainers into shutting up and closing their browsers. Idiots are too self-hating to even realize what the guy did.*


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## GrimaH (Nov 14, 2014)

I give up. Some people just love to turn everything into extremes no matter what.


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## HolyHands (Nov 14, 2014)

Wearing a shirt like that was inappropriate. The backlash he received in response was also inappropriate.


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## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Wearing a shirt like that was inappropriate. The backlash he received in response was also inappropriate.



It's not really appropriate work attire but I doubt he actually put any thought at all into what he was wearing.  Probably just threw a shirt on and went out the door.  Likely didn't even know what was on the shirt.  Happens to me all the time.  I rarely pay attention to what shirt of mine I specifically am wearing.


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## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

GrimaH said:


> I'm saying overreacting (en masse) to an overreaction (by the guy) that in itself is a response to an overreaction (by a few idiot radfems) is probably not the best fucking idea, you know what I mean? Especially after all that bullshit from GG already quite conclusively showed not a single soul on either side benefits from doing so, except from the attention seekers.





GrimaH said:


> I give up. Some people just love to turn everything into extremes no matter what.



Way to blame the victim. You make it seem like the SCIENTIST was overreacting when he cried on air when frankly it was perfectly justified. Other men have been fired before after being targeted by a SJW Twitter lynch mob. This guy has a wife and kids and he could very well lose his job over this. He spent at least 10 years working on this project and he managed to do something that noone before has done by landing a robot on a comet. This literally ranks up there with Sputnik and the first space walk as an achievement on space travel. And instead of the praise and accolades he deserves he is being called a sexist and a impediment to women in science. His moment of glory lost forever because of some ridiculous PC bullshit.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Wearing a shirt like that was inappropriate. The backlash he received in response was also inappropriate.



*However, those are on extreme ends of the appropriateness spectrum. The backlash he received is massively unproportionate to what he did, and what he wore doesn't take anything away from his accomplishments, nor does it target anyone personally or even reveal sexist personal beliefs.*


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## dream (Nov 14, 2014)

He shouldn't have had to apologize.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

*And here I thought you were locking the thread. *


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## Robin (Nov 14, 2014)

i thought the shirt was just for kicks and giggles, being a gift and all, and its actually pretty funny.


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## Zyrax (Nov 14, 2014)

Women should focus on real sexism
Like the sexism that Men face


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## Kanga (Nov 14, 2014)

Poor guy being crucified over a fugly shirt.


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## soulnova (Nov 14, 2014)

HolyHands said:


> Wearing a shirt like that was inappropriate. The backlash he received in response was also inappropriate.



This is pretty much my only problem. It was highly inappropriate to use that tacky shirt for such *important and serious scientific broadcast*. He became the public face of the scientists involved in this feat in behalf of humanity. That's a huge responsibility. 

In any case, I feel bad for him.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

*In the end, it's simply a fashion decision.*


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## Gino (Nov 14, 2014)

There is no response good enough for this. I mean this is one of those times where I'm truly at a loss for words.


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## Banhammer (Nov 14, 2014)

Make a thousand statues of naked ladies, you're a reinassance genius. Wear it and people forget YOU LANDED ON A FUCKING COMET, HOLY CRAP, THAT'S HARD


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## Jagger (Nov 14, 2014)

> Astrophysicist Katie Mack said earlier this week "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in science"



But he doesn't care about women in specific. I mean...Why should he when there are more urgent matters?


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## Adonis (Nov 14, 2014)

First, let me get the shirt thing out the way. HolyHands pretty much summed it up. "Tacky" is how I describe something that's distasteful to me without containing an element of moral outrage and I think that applies here. It's tacky and unprofessional. If this guy wants to flout convention and wear metaphorical "fuck you" flip-flops to work because he has enough merit and goodwill to do so, fine, but don't act like he's a martyr or that people pointing out how shitty that shirt is (for whatever plethora of reasons one might think so) is somehow beyond the pale uncalled for.

And yes, while he did do an amazing thing more deserving of attention than what shirt he wore, please note everyone posting here and engaging in this "shirt-gate" debate is rolling in the same quagmire of petty bullshit as the people they're criticizing. Keep the high horse hitched out front.




This whole "sexism" hysteria across the internet has gotten to be too much. Perhaps it's that I dropped out of college fairly early, thus never had to endure little Miss "Gender Studies 101 unleashed"  or maybe it's because I haven't ever used tumblr for anything beyond porn gifs, but forums have become toxic all around the web and I can firmly place more of the blame on the "anti-SJW" side if for no other reason than their ubiquity.

Yes, I get it. "Feminism" has its excesses and pushes a narrative that's often blind to context and counter-information, as academia is wont to do, and that liberalism shouldn't be allowed to grow complacent simply because it ultimately wins the day given how "things changing" (for better or worse) is an inevitability thus making conservatism a losing proposition in a historical sense.

However, the push back is both disproportional and reactionary in a way that often slips into "misogyny" (or at least slips close enough to where the extremists can bridge that gap without looking as out-of-place as they ought to.) For example, Zyrax asserting men are the real victims of sexism presents an attitude that's simultaneously dismissive and self-pitying. I can respect a "people need to stop bitching and deal" stance even if I disagree. Why it's always followed by, "If anyone's got it bad, it's me as a white man! Being black, brown, and/or a woman is a fucking amusement park with all that Affirmative Action and not dying on the Titanic which comes up all the time..."

In terms of optics, I see more and more guys on the internet gathering in cliques with more and more frequency to combat and mock "feminazis" and their dumbfuck opinions than I see actual feminazis with dumbfuck opinions. At what point is it fair for an outsider like me to note you're all seething and ranting about "dumb bitches" seemingly all the time and that comes off as pretty sexist regardless of intent? 

It'd be one thing if this level intellectual scrutiny was applied fairly consistently by y'all across all areas of discussion, but to screech over the logical fallacies committed by Anita Sarkeesian simply to turn around and tout Youtube fatmouths like AmazingAtheist or InternetAristocrat as cogent, nuanced commentators is... you're not exactly propping up Ralph Waldo Emerson is what I'm saying. There's nothing worse than a bunch of pissed-off motherfuckers who believe they're Spock therefore don't recognize their outrage deeming it "above petty human feelings" and rooted in logic when their level of discourse is no closer to rational than the people they're arguing against.

Right now, y'all just seem like y'all let yourselves become the new intransigent asshole reactionaries simply to spite the intransigent asshole progressives and it's not a good look.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 14, 2014)

^That's a huge cop out. The extreme feminism is being pushed everywhere, from television, to pretty much all media, to academia. The counter opinions you will only find on the internet and even then it is only in small corners and isn't met with nearly as much praise, support and coverage as the former.

Really, you can't even compare the two. The "anti-SJW" crowd doesn't have nearly as large of a megaphone. The "anti-SJW" crowd isn't getting laws passed.


----------



## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

It would be nice, Adonis, if things that _shouldn't_ matter _didn't_ matter, but unfortunately that's not the case; proposing that reactionaries are behaving irrationally simply because the behavior they're reacting to is irrational is beyond ridiculous; movements and mindsets have real-world consequences.

Framing "progression" as "any change, no matter the moral or merit" does, yes, allow you to say progressive thought is inevitable; however, we can and should seek to direct that progression in moral and meritorious directions, and overblown reactionarism is certainly one way to do it.


----------



## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

Also, you're full of shit. I haven't seen any sign or semblance of organized reaction to the SJW movement until the last week or two, and the SJWs are the ones on fucking network television.


----------



## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

For what its worth, the Facebook posts on the Verge article helps restore some of my faith in humanity.


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## Jagger (Nov 14, 2014)

It's also incredible the human's ability to nitpick such details.


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## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

I would agree that the shirt insults women and as a role model it was wrong to wear it.


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## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> I would agree that the shirt insults women and as a role model it was wrong to wear it.



How does it insult women?  Because the women on the shirt are sexualised?  Is sexuality offensive?  Would people be complaining if it was a long haired muscled man in a loincloth on the shirt?  I highly doubt it.


----------



## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Enclave said:


> How does it insult women?  Because the women on the shirt are sexualised?  Is sexuality offensive?  Would people be complaining if it was a long haired muscled man in a loincloth on the shirt?  I highly doubt it.



Thats subjective and I believe so. 

Objectifying women is offensive in my opinion. The shirt was only sold because of its content. Using the female body as a marketing tact is offensive to women.

But hey, thats just my opinion.


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## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

Yes, it's your opinion and a stupid one at that.

Did you know the person who designed that shirt was a woman?  What a fucking misogynist bitch eh?


----------



## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Enclave said:


> Yes, it's your opinion and a stupid one at that.
> 
> Did you know the person who designed that shirt was a woman?  What a fucking misogynist bitch eh?



The only stupid opinion here is your opinion that my opinion was stupid.

By your logic if a woman rapes another woman it isn't rape?


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> Objectifying women is offensive in my opinion. The shirt was only sold because of its content. Using the female body as a marketing tact is offensive to women.



I can say _this and that_ about the group you support, and the irony oozing from this post about "objectifying women", but I think what I've typed out so far regarding that speaks for itself.

/moving on


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## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> The only stupid opinion here is your opinion that my opinion was stupid.
> 
> By your logic if a woman rapes another woman it isn't rape?



...wow.  Ok, I'm done with you.  Seriously you're going on about fucking rape now?  What's wrong with you?


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## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Enclave said:


> ...wow.  Ok, I'm done with you.  Seriously you're going on about fucking rape now?  What's wrong with you?



Thats what your implying.

"Women can't discriminate against women"

"Blacks can't be racist againt black people"

"Homosexuals can't be homophobes"

"Men can't rape men"

Etc.


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## Jagger (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> The only stupid opinion here is your opinion that my opinion was stupid.
> 
> By your logic if a woman rapes another woman it isn't rape?


How does that equates to such conclusion?


----------



## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> First, let me get the shirt thing out the way. HolyHands pretty much summed it up. "Tacky" is how I describe something that's distasteful to me without containing an element of moral outrage and I think that applies here. It's tacky and unprofessional. If this guy wants to flout convention and wear metaphorical "fuck you" flip-flops to work because he has enough merit and goodwill to do so, fine, but don't act like he's a martyr or that people pointing out how shitty that shirt is (for whatever plethora of reasons one might think so) is somehow beyond the pale uncalled for.
> 
> And yes, while he did do an amazing thing more deserving of attention than what shirt he wore, please note everyone posting here and engaging in this "shirt-gate" debate is rolling in the same quagmire of petty bullshit as the people they're criticizing. Keep the high horse hitched out front.
> 
> ...



Its one thing to say that the shirt looked a bit tacky and maybe unprofessional. Its another to claim that wearing that shirt stops women from entering into STEMS because of patriarchal sexism. Seriously, that's a fucking retarded argument to make. The fact that they stirred up a fake controversy that overshadows one of the biggest steps in space history only proves it even more.

Anyway, here's a relevant quote.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> Thats what your implying.
> 
> "Women can't discriminate against women"
> 
> ...



No, _that's_ what _you're_ inferring from it.

Lrn2contxtplox.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Your statement was stupid, WT, because what is objectification is more of a subjective matter. As what one woman could consider objectifying, another could consider empowering, and then there are those that don't consider it either way.


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## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Your statement was stupid, WT, because what is objectification is more of a subjective matter. As what one woman could consider objectifying, another could consider empowering, and then there are those that don't consider it either way.



And you can't read becauae the very first thing I said was this was my subjective opinion ans therefore I'm glad he apologised.


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## Risyth (Nov 14, 2014)

*That doesn't make it any more logical or correct.*


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## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Yami Munesanzun said:


> No, _that's_ what _you're_ inferring from it.
> 
> Lrn2contxtplox.



Hey, I thought I was on your ignore?

When did that change?


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## Adonis (Nov 14, 2014)

@Blue

What does reacting to a group of tribal, irrational idiots by becoming a second group of tribal, irrational idiots simply in the opposite direction accomplish.

Nothing. Now, we have way more idiots making idiotic claims for idiotic reasons.



MartyMcFly1 said:


> ^That's a huge cop out. The extreme feminism is being pushed everywhere, from television, to pretty much all media, to academia. The counter opinions you will only find on the internet and even then it is only in small corners and isn't met with nearly as much praise, support and coverage as the former.
> 
> Really, you can't even compare the two. The "anti-SJW" crowd doesn't have nearly as large of a megaphone.



What separates you from the old cronies crying about "the gay agenda" being shoved down people's throat or any other reactionary feeling they're under assault from all sides? At what point could it be you rather than "them"? I'm not being entirely rhetorical.

I'm not saying the people on the anti- side are categorically "wrong". As I alluded to, I believe too many "progressive"/liberal convictions are asserted thoughtlessly and treated as dogma simply because the other side has a tendency to be assholes on the wrong side of history. I, too, would appreciate a bit more scrutiny and a more considerate willingness to engage "unorthodox" opinions.

Latching on to every "Here dem bitchez go again" story and acting infinitely aggrieved isn't elevating the discourse; it just gives you and others the opportunity to sneer, vent, and self-aggrandize. It reminds me of the "Justin Bieber" phase of Youtube where I was accosted more by "This is real music! Not like that Justin Bieber ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)!" comments on unrelated videos than any praise from his fans. If someone were to raise the spectre of his name, you could be damned sure it'd be the anti-crowd and the same applies with all this hysteria over "feminism/misogyny".

On a tangent, the problem with words like "sexist", is that it requires the person being labeled it to acknowledge a particular act/sentiment (or worldview) as irrational when almost everyone thinks of themselves as "reasonable" and "good" by default. Other people have unsavory attitudes! I'm me! If I were alive during the Civil War, I'd be an abolitionist, not one of those idiot racists like a majority of people back then. It's at such a point where people couldn't admit that looking at those hacked pictures of Jennifer Lawrence was a wrong act on their part. "Hey, man! She shouldn't have taken those pictures on a reputable and widely-considered secure at the time device! It's like leaving your car unlocked, man!" How do you breach this "I'm an unassailable person (except when being flawed benefits me)" narrative?

Self-awareness would cure a lot of this strife on both sides.


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't agree with the conclusion White Tiger reached but his statement wasn't stupid; it's Enclaves fault for constructing a poor argument. The fact that the person who designed the shirt was a woman is immaterial; it's relevance hinges on people being unable to commit a negative act on members of their class, which is not true.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> Hey, I thought I was on your ignore?
> 
> When did that change?



two things...

Well, really one thing:

I _really_ enjoy seeing you make a fool out of yourself on topics like these.


----------



## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> @Blue
> 
> What does reacting to a group of tribal, irrational idiots by becoming a second group of tribal, irrational idiots simply in the opposite direction accomplish.
> 
> Nothing. Now, we have way more idiots making idiotic claims for idiotic reasons.


Humans are, by nature, tribal irrational idiots. Change is effected by convincing the largest group of tribal, irrational idiots that your way is best, generally by using tribal, irrational means like citing anecdotes and inciting hysteria.

So no, it accomplishes literally everything.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

> Objectifying women is offensive in my opinion. The shirt was only sold because of its content. Using the female body as a marketing tact is offensive to women.
> 
> But hey, thats just my opinion.





> By your logic if a woman rapes another woman it isn't rape?



You were going down this route and THAT is stupid. 

You clearly have a more puritannical view on the matter. Evidently the woman who made the shirt doesn't. It wasn't made with the intent to be offensive to women, but as a gift to a friend. Particularly as well considering that she was expressing pride in it. So the most anyone can say it was creative expression. In which case, yeah, people like you are probably gonna get uptight and offended about it. Doesn't make you right.


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## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> What separates you from the old cronies crying about "the gay agenda" being shoved down people's throat or any other reactionary feeling they're under assault from all sides? At what point could it be you rather than "them"? I'm not being entirely rhetorical.



Stop being obtuse.

Screaming ''The gay agenda," in response to people wanting the right to marry, hold hands in public and so forth is different to people getting aggrieved over individuals crying about the word bossy or the shirt someone wears to a press conference. 

The issues commonly focused on can distinguish the two sets of individuals.


----------



## WT (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> You were going down this route and THAT is stupid.
> 
> You clearly have a more puritannical view on the matter. Evidently the woman who made the shirt doesn't. It wasn't made with the intent to be offensive to women, but as a gift to a friend. Particularly as well considering that she was expressing pride in it. So the most anyone can say it was creative expression. In which case, yeah, people like you are probably gonna get uptight and offended about it. Doesn't make you right.



Ah right so it was about intention right?

"Hey that guy over there is a black shit"

It wasnt racist because that wasn't my intention.

If the woman made the shirt with a different intention, I guess its all fine then.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

WT said:


> Ah right so it was about intention right?
> 
> "Hey that guy over there is a black shit"
> 
> ...



Each woman, or each group are going to have varying, sometimes often contradictory, standards on what it means to objectify a woman and what is offensive to them. You'll have those same again, that consider it empowering and those indifferent. Especially on the matter of depiction of a woman's body. What's idiotic about this response and your later responses is that despite saying that 'hey it's just my opinion' you proceed to argue in a way as if what is considered objectifying and offensive to women is an objective matter, as what the definition of rape and racial discrimination would be. 

Intention matters a lot here, so your sarcasm works against you.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> Humans are, by nature, tribal irrational idiots. Change is effected by convincing the largest group of tribal, irrational idiots that your way is best, generally by using tribal, irrational means like citing anecdotes and inciting hysteria.
> 
> So no, it accomplishes literally everything.



What if your goal in life is to stop



being that?


----------



## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> @Blue
> 
> What does reacting to a group of tribal, irrational idiots by becoming a second group of tribal, irrational idiots simply in the opposite direction accomplish.
> 
> Nothing. Now, we have way more idiots making idiotic claims for idiotic reasons.



It prevents the former group's idiocy from spreading more compared to giving the first group of idiots a completely free reign to do as they please.



> What separates you from the old cronies crying about "the gay agenda" being shoved down people's throat or any other reactionary feeling they're under assault from all sides? At what point could it be you rather than "them"? I'm not being entirely rhetorical.
> 
> I'm not saying the people on the anti- side are categorically "wrong". As I alluded to, I believe too many "progressive"/liberal convictions are asserted thoughtlessly and treated as dogma simply because the other side has a tendency to be assholes on the wrong side of history. I, too, would appreciate a bit more scrutiny and a more considerate willingness to engage "unorthodox" opinions.
> 
> Latching on to every "Here dem bitchez go again" story and acting infinitely aggrieved isn't elevating the discourse; it just gives you and others the opportunity to sneer, vent, and self-aggrandize. It reminds me of the "Justin Bieber" phase of Youtube where I was accosted more by "This is real music! Not like that Justin Bieber ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)!" comments on unrelated videos than any praise from his fans. If someone were to raise the spectre of his name, you could be damned sure it'd be the anti-crowd and the same applies with all this hysteria over "feminism/misogyny".



Because "the gay agenda" was not suppressing the freedom and expression of people people who were not gay. Whereas this current group of authoritarian leftists are basically culture police that proscribe what someone can say, what he can wear, and what he is allowed to create in order to fit their political agenda. They frankly sound more like Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority but instead of the threats of Satanism and Violence we have the Left SJW talk about the threats of Sexism and Racism. And anyone who doesn't tow the line gets hit with economic sanctions - just look at Paula Deen, Orson Scott Card, Glenn Beck, Chik-Fil-A, etc. 

I am a registered Democrat that voted for Obama twice. Pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-social welfare spending, pro-Obamacare, etc. But its ridiculous that we let SJW be able to shout down anyone who disagrees with their ideals and methods as a legitimate social standard. Why should they complain if someone else manages to shout them down?


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## C-Moon (Nov 14, 2014)

Good ol' tumblr, always finding triggers


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## Banhammer (Nov 14, 2014)

Actually, the people denouncing the "gay mafia" have far more in common with the modern SJW than they do with their  detractors. 

Trust me, I was there berating those guys. They were the sort of people who claimed the coverage of california fires were a ploy from the gay mafia to distract people from the outing of Albus Dumbledore.

It's the same caliber of people who can, with a straight face, say "I DON'T CARE THAT YOU JUST LANDED A SPACESHIP ON A COMET, YOUR SHIRT OFFENDS ME!" (literal quote)


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## Adonis (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> So no, it accomplishes literally everything.



If you believe bitching on the internet is going to win the day in the culture wars, we have two completely different views on what constitutes meaningful activism and I'm willing to leave it at that.



			
				Gunners said:
			
		

> Stop being obtuse.
> 
> Screaming ''The gay agenda," in response to people wanting the right to marry, hold hands in public and so forth is different to people getting aggrieved over individuals crying about the word bossy or the shirt someone wears to a press conference.
> 
> The issues commonly focused on can distinguish the two sets of individuals.



I forgot that the ever-aggrieved, but "totally not whiners like those feminists and SJWs" crowd become hyper-literal when it conveniences them and won't acknowledge to themselves when someone is obviously painting in broad strokes for affect.

Let me ask, based on my posts, at what point have I made it sound like I agree with the mindset of the "ban bossy" campaign and shit like that? When did I even call the shirt out for "sexism" versus "unprofessionalism" and "tackiness"?

Either I'm simply not full of impotent rage and have learned not to die on the hill of every single stupid opinion uttered by another human being or there's something else fueling this anti-feminism furor that can have previously thoughtful posters like you and Seto Kaiba walking in lockstep with the knuckle-draggers spewing half-considered "conventional wisdom" and tilting at the same straw men.

Take the video game representation debate:

You have gamers complaining over and mocking the glut of "brown-haired, grizzled white protagonists". Including women and minorities is pandering, though, so can't do that!

You have gamers suddenly becoming Libertarians in regard to letting the market have final say over the content of this "art" (never mind how much of this "art" is determined in a boardroom by a committee of suits). The market deciding on more gray-brown military shooters and seventeenth installment of franchises they don't like is what's killing the industry.

What cognitively-dissonant jackasses you're willing to make of yourselves simply to spite smug progressives is as impressive as it is depressing. Standing opposite a moron doesn't suddenly make you the voice of reason.


----------



## Blue (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> If you believe bitching on the internet is going to win the day in the culture wars, we have two completely different views on what constitutes meaningful activism and I'm willing to leave it at that.


Pretend like I didn't just point out like 8 posts ago that major network television has been hosting SJWs in the past few weeks.

Pretend like I even needed to tell you that.

God I love honest discourse.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

> Either I'm simply not full of impotent rage and have learned not to die on the hill of every single stupid opinion uttered by another human being or there's something else fueling this anti-feminism furor that can have previously thoughtful posters like you and Seto Kaiba walking in lockstep with the knuckle-draggers spewing half-considered "conventional wisdom" and tilting at the same straw men.



Have you just been deliberately ignoring how much leeway actual news media has given the shrill voices of modern feminism or what? If this was just isolated to corners of the internet, of course I wouldn't pay it in any mind. However this has, and ultimately started in, academics, and has tried to shove itself into every facet of our daily and professional lives.

I feel like to be a truly reasonable progressive means not being afraid to notice the dark corner on your side of the aisle, and not being afraid to call out the bullshit that comes from it. Particularly since such ideologies cease to be progressive, and just a flipped form of the mindsets we condemn in the far-right. Social media may have given it a more viral platform than it ever had but don't try and pretend it is limited to just that.


----------



## Gunners (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> I forgot that the ever-aggrieved, but "totally not whiners like those feminists and SJWs" crowd become hyper-literal when it conveniences them and won't acknowledge to themselves when someone is obviously painting in broad strokes for affect.


When you're making comparisons, to justify a stance you have taken, you don't point in broad strokes _for affect_. The difference your broad strokes sweep over are of importance as they serve to distinguish the two groups you're trying to compare. 



> Let me ask, based on my posts, at what point have I made it sound like I agree with the mindset of the "ban bossy" campaign and shit like that? When did I even call the shirt out for "sexism" versus "unprofessionalism" and "tackiness"?


When did I say you agreed with those campaigns? Reference to those campaigns wasn't about you, it was about differentiating why people are typically _aggrieved_ by feminism as opposed to why old people scream "The gay agenda."



> Either I'm simply not full of impotent rage and have learned not to die on the hill of every single stupid opinion uttered by another human being or there's something else fueling this anti-feminism furor that can have previously thoughtful posters like you and Seto Kaiba walking in lockstep with the knuckle-draggers spewing half-considered "conventional wisdom" and tilting at the same straw men.


Why are you speaking as though it is a single stupid opinion? Single stupid opinions exist on numerous topics that I, and many others, disagree. They do not, however, cause a response because they are just that, single stupid opinions. 

These opinions aren't single and, in spite of being stupid, are starting to affect people's lives. 



> Take the video game representation debate:
> 
> You have gamers complaining over and mocking the glut of "brown-haired, grizzled white protagonists". Including women and minorities is pandering, though, so can't do that!
> 
> ...


It is about knowing where to draw the line. I might think my mum nags a lot but if someone put their hands on her I would beat them to a pulp. Would that make me a cognitively-dissonant jackass? No. There's an expectation that the response to a problem is proportionate to the offence committed; there's also an expectation that the action taken isn't self-serving. 

When you individuals crippling careers before they start, whilst furthering unscrupulously furthering the careers of their cohorts, people will rightfully criticise.


----------



## Adonis (Nov 14, 2014)

Blue said:


> Pretend like I didn't just point out like 8 posts ago that major network television has been hosting SJWs in the past few weeks.
> 
> Pretend like I even needed to tell you that.
> 
> God I love honest discourse.



Neglecting my rage boner as I have been, I don't watch too much "major network television" nor do I have a frame of reference for what you consider "SJWs" it being such a nebulous and clumsily applied term (sort of like "racist" in the mouth of an SJW ).

Also, I didn't read "8 posts ago" so I'm not being intellectually dishonest so much as lazy.



hcheng02 said:


> It prevents the former group's idiocy from spreading more compared to giving the first group of idiots a completely free reign to do as they please.



Has it?

Now, not only do I have to worry about the SJWs spreading their nonsense, I have to worry about the anti-SJWers invoking their name and inciting arguments against people who haven't even made their presence known in that particular instance.

I take back calling them "reactionary". One usually waits for an "act" before reacting. Now, I see people actively seeking out that thing that pisses them off so much just so they can get all their like-minded buddies to lob rocks at a soft-target. This is neither activism nor intellectual exercise; it's masturbation. I don't appreciate the heel-digging or unwillingness to question one's stance from any side. Again, some self-awareness would work wonders because you can't have reasoned discourse when people don't even grasp what's driving their outrage.





> Because "the gay agenda" was not suppressing the freedom and expression of people people who were not gay. Whereas this current group of authoritarian leftists are basically culture police that proscribe what someone can say, what he can wear, and what he is allowed to create in order to fit their political agenda. They frankly sound more like Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority but instead of the threats of Satanism and Violence we have the Left SJW talk about the threats of Sexism and Racism. And anyone who doesn't tow the line gets hit with economic sanctions - just look at Paula Deen, Orson Scott Card, Glenn Beck, Chik-Fil-A, etc.



You just contradicted yourself, I think.

Many would consider the "economic sanctions" against Orson Scott Card and Chik-Fil-A to be suppression by "the gay agenda". I personally have a fairly ambivalent opinion on such actions. To cite a particularly egregious example, the Firefox CEO was forced to resign because people complained he voted for Prop 8 back in 2008. In other words, he was forced to step down in 2013 for being ideologically in tune with a majority of the country and the Democratic president back in 2008. Point being "the gay agenda" lost a man his job which makes Gunner's insistence I'm making a totally unfair parallel a bit dubious. 

I get what you're saying against "progressive/liberal" bullying, as I've emphasized every post. 

What I'm saying is that the backlash hasn't been well-argued, well-considered, nor has the level of scrutiny been consistent. Basically, it's been "Anyone who dares criticize me better come with it flawlessly because I'm such a good guy and any criticism against me is bullshit. Anyone who agrees with me, however, can be as unscrupulous and abrasive as they please because we so right."

The result is a toxic atmosphere that makes forum-dwelling tedious and unpleasant. Jesus, I've been considering getting a life it's gotten so bad.



> I am a registered Democrat that voted for Obama twice. Pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-social welfare spending, pro-Obamacare, etc. But its ridiculous that we let SJW be able to shout down anyone who disagrees with their ideals and methods as a legitimate social standard. Why should they complain if someone else manages to shout them down?



Let's not lose track of what's figurative and what's literal. Who's shouting down whom and how?



Seto Kaiba said:


> Have you just been deliberately ignoring how much leeway actual news media has given the shrill voices of modern feminism or what? If this was just isolated to corners of the internet, of course I wouldn't pay it in any mind. However this has, and ultimately started in, academics, and has tried to shove itself into every facet of our daily and professional lives.



I don't conflate "the news media" with real life. It's entertainment. 

In real life, I haven't felt under siege. I honestly wouldn't mind you giving examples because all of this "controversy" never leaves the internet-box for me.



> I feel like to be a truly reasonable progressive means not being afraid to notice the dark corner on your side of the aisle, and not being afraid to call out the bullshit that comes from it. Particularly since such ideologies cease to be progressive, and just a flipped form of the mindsets we condemn in the far-right. Social media may have given it a more viral platform than it ever had but don't try and pretend it is limited to just that.



Except, the battle-lines are still drawn pretty distinctly in an "us vs. them" fashion, so treating it as self-examination is giving yourself a little too much credit. You've simply found a "them" a bit closer to home.


----------



## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

Gunners said:


> I don't agree with the conclusion White Tiger reached but his statement wasn't stupid; it's Enclaves fault for constructing a poor argument. The fact that the person who designed the shirt was a woman is immaterial; it's relevance hinges on people being unable to commit a negative act on members of their class, which is not true.



The argument didn't deserve effort.  It's a freakin' shirt.  Yeah, it's inappropriate for work but all shirts of that style are.  If somebody finds that shirt offensive?  They need to get over themselves.  This whole PC shit has gone way too far.


----------



## Oceania (Nov 14, 2014)

wow really? throwing a fit over a shirt people? I mean its just a shirt...


----------



## Enclave (Nov 14, 2014)

Oceania said:


> wow really? throwing a fit over a shirt people? I mean its just a shirt...



We're talking about idiots who are just looking to get offended.  They need to be shamed.  There's actual real issues that need addressing, things feminists most definitely should pipe up about.  Bullshit like this though just makes real feminists easy to dismiss by a large swath of people.  That's one of the reasons I get so annoyed when people complain about this shit or the crap to do with gamergate.


----------



## Axl Low (Nov 14, 2014)

are you fucking kidding me?
this guys has done more in the last 18 years of his life 

then the 2000 sjws who ran the horde on him will do in 50 years of their own lives
Fuck off

EDIT: Somebody break out a fucking shovel 

Looks like a blizzard of special snowflakes is rolling on in.


----------



## Oceania (Nov 14, 2014)

Also it seems to me these type of people only throw a fit when in a public stage, if any of these same women saw this man in regular public, they probably would make no fuss. The only reason they wouldn't make a fuss is because it wouldn't be in a public stage where they be the center of attention.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> I don't conflate "the news media" with real life. It's entertainment.



Are you seriously denying the enabler that is news media and the fact that millions watch, and of those millions absorb whatever is peddled to them each day? Regardless of reliability of said information? Are we really gonna act like we aren't in a country where political discourse has been largely influenced by the 24-hour news cycle? 

It's not just entertainment. This molds people's actual views in the world. Why are you being so dishonest here?



> In real life, I haven't felt under siege. I honestly wouldn't mind you giving examples because all of this "controversy" never leaves the internet-box for me.



Truth be told, people like you and I are not opportune targets. 





[Youtube]Sx7PIIA60XQ[/Youtube] 

[youtube]iARHCxAMAO0[/youtube]

Both in University of Toronto



Lierre Keith gives seminars at various universities, and just take one look at her rhetoric. Yet disturbingly she's just one of many that do so. 

Do I have to keep going on to establish this isn't isolated to the internet?



> Except, the battle-lines are still drawn pretty distinctly in an "us vs. them" fashion, so treating it as self-examination is giving yourself a little too much credit. You've simply found a "them" a bit closer to home.



What the hell are you wanting then? Because a distinction in ideology is clear. So regardless of if I want that, it's been made just by having a set of opinions on various matters. It is self-examination of the progressive ideology, and what I myself hold in being one, but it has become an us vs. them simply due to the fact that such is the nature of dealing with political radicalism.


----------



## hcheng02 (Nov 14, 2014)

Adonis said:


> Has it?
> 
> Now, not only do I have to worry about the SJWs spreading their nonsense, I have to worry about the anti-SJWers invoking their name and inciting arguments against people who haven't even made their presence known in that particular instance.
> 
> I take back calling them "reactionary". One usually waits for an "act" before reacting. Now, I see people actively seeking out that thing that pisses them off so much just so they can get all their like-minded buddies to lob rocks at a soft-target. This is neither activism nor intellectual exercise; it's masturbation. I don't appreciate the heel-digging or unwillingness to question one's stance from any side. Again, some self-awareness would work wonders because you can't have reasoned discourse when people don't even grasp what's driving their outrage.



The successful Rosetta mission should have been celebrated as a remarkable scientific achievement. Instead we have this ridiculous manufactured controversy that is overshadowing the actual mission. Go and type "Rosetta scientist" or "rosetta scientist woman" in Google right now. The entire page is pretty much this stupid shirt causing sexism in STEMs. Its not like its just on a few blogs - you have big name media companies like CNN and Washington Post piling on to this guy. The leading scientist is being publicly shamed in his moment of triumph over a stupid birthday gift from a FEMALE friend. How am I not reacting to an event that I has already happened? 



> You just contradicted yourself, I think.
> 
> Many would consider the "economic sanctions" against Orson Scott Card and Chik-Fil-A to be suppression by "the gay agenda". I personally have a fairly ambivalent opinion on such actions. To cite a particularly egregious example, the Firefox CEO was forced to resign because people complained he voted for Prop 8 back in 2008. In other words, he was forced to step down in 2013 for being ideologically in tune with a majority of the country and the Democratic president. Point being "the gay agenda" lost a man his job which makes Gunner's insistence I'm making a totally unfair parallel a bit dubious.
> 
> ...



I don't see how the backlash to this incident has not been well considered. Ok, fine, it might be unprofessional to dress like that, but sexist? Really? How can it be sexist when it was designed by a female designer in good faith? Was the female designer sexist against women like herself? Does her female opinions not count?

Is it appropriate to start a e-lynch mob - something that has lead to numerous people being fired before - appropriate right when the mission was meeting success? To drive a man to tears in public - where all his wife, children, and friends will see - just because of a stupid shirt? There are more comments on this shirt controversy than the actual landing. And worse of all, this authoritarian attitude to shame supposed racism and sexism ignores the actual women and minorities in the field. Here we have practically no mention of Kathrin Altwegg who is in charge of the spectrometer on the robot. 



Shouldn't she get a moment in the Sun and share in the glory of the achievement? Was she offended by the shirt? Did the media even care to ask? Apparently not because practically noone's heard of her. Wouldn't it better serve the supposed SJW purpose to encourage more women to enter STEM fields by highlighting the role of actual women in the operation instead of manufacturing outrage over a fashion faux pax? In fact one can argue that the constant repetition of women being unwelcomed into STEM fields will ultimately become self fulfilling. Here's an example of something like that happening in the past.



> For a background of what happened to his publishing company you can google translate Sundblom's blog moralpanic the police and legal action - comics for adults are not welcome in Sweden. Be aware that the pictures in the blog have sexual content, and do not represent Epix and Pox publications multi-facetted output as a whole. A specific issue of Pox magazine (for adults!) was reported to the police by Bo Bertilsson, chairman of The People's Organisation against Pornography, a feminist organisation whose stated goal was to save children from sexual exploitation. This got a lot of attention in the press.
> 
> Comics by Gilbert Hernandez, Altan, Art Spiegelman, Rick Geary, Bill Griffith, Neil Gaiman and feminist underground comic queen Dori Seda were painted in the press as sexually deviant, morally abhorrent, misogynistic violence propaganda, which of course would only ruin our children. Comics were terrible for women too, and the industry itself was painted as awful since the small market of Sweden only had a handful of women working in the industry. This sounds familiar, doesn't it? So while the press rallied around the topic, because if it bleeds it leads in yellow journalism even back then, upstanding citizens including uniformed police officers took it upon themselves to go around shops and ask them to stop selling these comic books. An innocent man, also named Horst Schr?der, lost clients to his riding school because people thought he was the bad pornography-peddling Epix-f?rlag owner. Konsum, the consumer cooperatives supermarket, were the first ones to remove the magazines from their stores which was announced in every newspaper. Please note that this was after Horst Schr?der and Epix f?rlag was freed in court from all accusations made against the comics. The moral-panic machine didn't care, and nobody wanted to associate with the comics anymore.
> 
> ...





> Let's not lose track of what's figurative and what's literal. Who's shouting down whom and how?



The authoritarian left has made shouting down its opposition via boycotts and Twitter mobs to social shame as a standard tool to attack their political and ideological enemies - examples being Paula Deen, Brandon Eich, Donglegate, etc. Now there's just more people willing to shout back.

In any case, expressing constant outrage over frivolous shit like this shirt might damage women's rights in the longer run.


----------



## Adonis (Nov 14, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Are you seriously denying the enabler that is news media and the fact that millions watch, and of those millions absorb whatever is peddled to them each day? Regardless of reliability of said information? Are we really gonna act like we aren't in a country where political discourse has been largely influenced by the 24-hour news cycle?
> 
> It's not just entertainment. This molds people's actual views in the world. Why are you being so dishonest here?



That the average person is going to be lulled into becoming bleeding hearts who believe a scientist giving a weeping Mea Culpa over a stupid shirt he wore is a proportional and appropriate conclusion to this fiasco isn't a fear I hold. 

You overestimate the allure of Progressivism and underestimate.how much the 24-hour news cycle is driven by confirmation bias rather than brainwashing. People watch to have already-existing opinions reaffirmed, not to pick up new ones. You even get to pick your flavor of bullshit. Red over at Fox News, Blue at MSNBC, bland corporate hogwash over at CNN.




> Truth be told, people like you and I are not opportune targets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I'm a college dropout, so... dodged that bullet?

That's all incredibly insipid and cringeworthy. That's more a reason to focus one's ire against the lack of rigor and standards in academia than to declare"modern feminism" a bust. We had Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson making careers off of demagogy even back when racism was totally super serial and a big deal unlike this post-racial utopia we're currently in. There always has been, and probably always will be, hucksters who butter their bread on angst, real or imagined. To let your distaste for them turn you into a reactionary shill for the other side isn't particularly constructive, though. 



> What the hell are you wanting then? Because a distinction in ideology is clear. So regardless of if I want that, it's been made just by having a set of opinions on various matters. It is self-examination of the progressive ideology, and what I myself hold in being one, but it has become an us vs. them simply due to the fact that such is the nature of dealing with political radicalism.



I don't know. I disagree with both sides and I hate centrists. It's giving me a headache.



			
				hcheng02 said:
			
		

> The successful Rosetta mission should have been celebrated as a remarkable scientific achievement. Instead we have this ridiculous manufactured controversy that is overshadowing the actual mission. Go and type "Rosetta scientist" or "rosetta scientist woman" in Google right now. The entire page is pretty much this stupid shirt causing sexism in STEMs. Its not like its just on a few blogs - you have big name media companies like CNN and Washington Post piling on to this guy. The leading scientist is being publicly shamed in his moment of triumph over a stupid birthday gift from a FEMALE friend. How am I not reacting to an event that I has already happened?



Three things:

1) How many "feminists" were behind concocting this controversy? If anything, this is an example of the big damage a few bloggers/journalists with a little influence and too much time on their hands can do rather than an indictment on feminism as a whole. I imagine many feminists, while they may or may not find the shirt sexist, consider the controversy overblown.

2) Pointing out the gift is from a FEMALE is a version of the "I'm not racist, I have a black friend!" Minorities aren't hiveminded and they can engage in activities deemed offensive to their own group. Black people made and acted in Soul Plane, for chrissakes.

3) I'm referring to a rhetorical "you" and addressing internet backlash against feminism as a whole, not specifically you.

Your grievance is, or at least ought to be, with the internet media that concocted a controversy for clickbait, not the oversensitive loons you and others have taken as being representative of large swaths of people. It only took one person to type up a "His shirt is sexist" story and another to report on that "controversy". You're letting bloggers/journalists trick you into fancying a magnifying glass is a window representing the world and events in a 1:1 fashion.



> I don't see how the backlash to this incident has not been well considered. Ok, fine, it might be unprofessional to dress like that, but sexist? Really? How can it be sexist when it was designed by a female designer in good faith? Was the female designer sexist against women like herself? Does her female opinions not count?



Women can be sexist against themselves, yes. I don't think the shirt's sexist, making this a moot point, but your insistence women can't hold wrong-headed opinions against themselves comes off as an attempt to create a standard where "sexism" is impossible to be met. All it takes is one woman to disagree to make the assertion null and void. According to you, if a woman says and believes [insert sexist comment], that comment is no longer sexist.



> Is it appropriate to start a e-lynch mob - something that has lead to numerous people being fired before - appropriate right when the mission was meeting success? To drive a man to tears in public - where all his wife, children, and friends will see - just because of a stupid shirt? There are more comments on this shirt controversy than the actual landing. And worse of all, this authoritarian attitude to shame supposed racism and sexism ignores the actual women and minorities in the field. Here we have practically no mention of Kathrin Altwegg who is in charge of the spectrometer on the robot.
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't she get a moment in the Sun and share in the glory of the achievement? Was she offended by the shirt? Did the media even care to ask? Apparently not because practically noone's heard of her. Wouldn't it better serve the supposed SJW purpose to encourage more women to enter STEM fields by highlighting the role of actual women in the operation instead of manufacturing outrage over a fashion faux pax? In fact one can argue that the constant repetition of women being unwelcomed into STEM fields will ultimately become self fulfilling. Here's an example of something like that happening in the past.



I don't think the SJWs are right in all this, as I've reiterated every post, so it doesn't really serve much purpose for me to hash out the ways they could suck less. Yes, they often focus on petty minutiae missing the big picture and context. Yes, they're invested in a narrative that's eroding.

The proper response to the shirt was an eyeroll followed by a "Goddamnit, really, dude?" Not because it's objectifying, but because he's a grown-up and should look like he knows how to dress himself. 

Your rush to point out that women agree with you is missing the point. As I've said, minorities can hold opinions that would be widely-considered as an -ism against themselves.

Policing offense cuts both ways. If SJWs don't get to treat their offense as a universal, you can't treat your inoffense as a golden standard.



> The authoritarian left has made shouting down its opposition via boycotts and Twitter mobs to social shame as a standard tool to attack their political and ideological enemies - examples being Paula Deen, Brandon Eich, Donglegate, etc. Now there's just more people willing to shout back.
> 
> In any case, expressing constant outrage over frivolous shit like this shirt might damage women's rights in the longer run.



Boycotts are the consequence of consumer sovereignty. "Voting with your wallet" is an impotent platitude without the capacity to incite likeminded people to similar action. The more concerning thing is how quick advertisers back out and the institutions behind these people back down. "The people" being able to threaten corporations and the like isn't as problematic as the corporations preempting such action.

The overzealous use of a tool doesn't make the tool flawed.

As far as shouting back goes, I'm not seeing the equivalence. The "other side" has already done their damage. What is this accomplishing other than lamenting and sneering?



I'm done. I don't get it and I can live with that.


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 15, 2014)

If I was that guy the moment I received the bashing would had said "Sorry about the shirt. I will change my clothing. Then phone the friend that made me the shirt and have a serious talk with her.

Then return next week not wearing the shirt.


*Spoiler*: __ 




But wearing the shirt, socks of that shirt model, pants of that shirt and a freaking hat of that shirt, with inscriptions where they can buy the shirt and additional items


----------



## soulnova (Nov 15, 2014)

We have already established someone made a very stupid remark about the shirt, and that for future reference everyone is suggested to use a more -work appropiate- shirt if you are going to be the face of an entire scientific team. Let's move oooooon for fuuuck saaaaakeeeee.


----------



## Pilaf (Nov 15, 2014)

These putrid SJW fucks pretend to be progressives, but their bully tactics would make the Koch Brothers proud.


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Nov 15, 2014)

I am confused by this and this thread. I have no words for it.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

soulnova said:


> We have already established someone made a very stupid remark about the shirt, and that for future reference everyone is suggested to use a more -work appropiate- shirt if you are going to be the face of an entire scientific team. Let's move oooooon for fuuuck saaaaakeeeee.


but those horrible women made a man cry, he has to be avenged now


----------



## blueblip (Nov 15, 2014)

This thread.

But seriously, can anyone tell me what exactly is wring with his shirt?? Like, I'd say the dude has shitty taste and doesn't know how the dress for an occasion, but what EXACTLY is bad about the shirt itself in terms of why it's misogynistic?


----------



## Mizura (Nov 15, 2014)

What. It was just a shirt.


----------



## Garfield (Nov 15, 2014)

Mizura said:


> What. It was just a shirt.


That shirt was carefully chosen by a really highly culturally influential individual to make a statement that he didn't want women doing science and preferred them in bondage positions exclusively. This leads to a domino effect of all men in the world aspiring to be super cool rocket scientist nerds to beat up their wives, girlfriends, female friends, mothers, sisters and daughters.

True story.
This seems like a postcount++ post but fuck it


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Mizura said:


> What. It was just a shirt.


except that person wearing it was at the time representing government funded agency.

I pay my taxes so he can do space stuff not be on tv looking like some sex obsessed weirdo.


----------



## blueblip (Nov 15, 2014)

This looks like some bizarro version of the whole "This is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt fiasco. In the sense that this is getting coverage globally but the This is what shirt was completely ignored. Fuck idiots.


----------



## Garfield (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> except that person wearing it was at the time representing government funded agency.
> 
> I pay my taxes so he can do space stuff not be on tv looking like some sex obsessed weirdo.


After shower in the morning, I'm sure he was thinking about how best to represent the image the taxpayers want him to instead of all the million things that could go wrong with mission control and double checking them. I mean after all, the former is more important.


----------



## Velocity (Nov 15, 2014)

blueblip said:


> This thread.
> 
> But seriously, can anyone tell me what exactly is wring with his shirt?? Like, I'd say the dude has shitty taste and doesn't know how the dress for an occasion, but what EXACTLY is bad about the shirt itself in terms of why it's misogynistic?



Nothing is wrong with the shirt. This is nothing more than a bunch of idiots white knighting, using women as an excuse to harass a guy that actually did legitimately awesome work with the space probe. Personally, I'm insulted by the whole thing. There's nothing wrong at all with pin up art and I'm not the only woman defending the guy's choice of clothing.

People will start drama over anything these days.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

what was wrong with the shirt is that you shouldn't dress up in your masturbation material to work. especialy when you are going on tv and your work has nothing to do with said shirt or said mastrubation material


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 15, 2014)

Being pretty judgmental of the guy.


----------



## Velocity (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> what was wrong with the shirt is that you shouldn't dress up in your masturbation material to work. especialy when you are going on tv and your work has nothing to do with said shirt or said mastrubation material



It's just pin up art. Believe it or not, people have those on all sorts of clothes as well as planes and cars and even tattoos. Calling pin up girls "masturbation material" makes you sound so prudish.


----------



## Stunna (Nov 15, 2014)

Ugly ass shirt, and one I'd never be caught dead wearing, but not worth all the hooplah


----------



## Pliskin (Nov 15, 2014)

Velocity said:


> . Calling pin up girls "masturbation material" makes you sound so prudish.



This to me is the heart of the matter. I sometimes have the feeling all this sex negative trend is leading us backwards in time. You know, cover up women, sex is off putting and to be socially ignored if possible. masturbation is to be regarded negative and stuff like that. 

You'd almost think there is not another (and imho way more appealing) branch of feminist thought out there that embraces sexuality.

Also, the shirt should be burned due to its hideous color palette.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Being pretty judgmental of the guy.


how else I can interpret this shirt? it just says that he loves sexy half naked ladies and he has to share that with the world.


Velocity said:


> It's just pin up art. Believe it or not, people have those on all sorts of clothes as well as planes and cars and even tattoos. Calling pin up girls "masturbation material" makes you sound so prudish.


people have different fetishes. I get it

But most of the time they focus on it during their free time, not while working. Somehow I don't see heads of national banks wearing similar shirts even though many of them probably find females sexy as well


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 15, 2014)

Well, one it was a gift by a female friend of his and she was actually happy that he chose to wear it for this. So like I said, you're awfully judgmental of the guy.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Well, one it was a gift by a female friend of his and she was actually happy that he chose to wear it for this. So like I said, you're awfully judgmental of the guy.


how does it change anything? if she made a shirt with feces on it it would still be cool?

He isn't wearing to a informal social gathering where people know him and won't assume that he is sex pervert. He showed it to the whole world, and you are surprised that some people find it crass and inappropriate for ocasion?

What you wear to public functions is always a kind of statement, even if you don't really plan for it.


----------



## Mizura (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> except that person wearing it was at the time representing government funded agency.
> 
> I pay my taxes so he can do space stuff not be on tv looking like some sex obsessed weirdo.


I dunno, all that tells me is that he is some socially inept nerd with geeky tastes (look at that shirt, it's like some comic-book art, the girl on the shirt is even holding a gun). 

I'm a girl and I think the shirt looks kind of cool.


----------



## Hozukimaru (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> how else I can interpret this shirt? it just says that he loves sexy half naked ladies and he has to share that with the world.
> 
> people have different fetishes. I get it
> 
> But most of the time they focus on it during their free time, not while working. Somehow I don't see heads of national banks wearing similar shirts even though many of them probably find females sexy as well



You can try and _not_ interpret it? Not everything has an underlying meaning. It's not a fetish, it's just art on a shirt.

I'm sure that most heads of national banks wear casual clothes in their free time. In any case scientists _aren't_ heads of national banks. While the guy was apologizing he was wearing a _hoody_. Most of the other scientists were wearing _equally _casual clothes both before and after the incidence.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Mizura said:


> I dunno, all that tells me is that he is some socially inept nerd with geeky tastes (look at that shirt, it's like some comic-book art, the girl on the shirt is even holding a gun).
> 
> I'm a girl and I think the shirt looks kind of cool.


he is geek and so what. does that excuse him from wearing approprite clothes when he is representing his agency on national forum?

he isn't playing MTG or working at home/lab.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> how does it change anything? if she made a shirt with feces on it it would still be cool?
> 
> He isn't wearing to a informal social gathering where people know him and won't assume that he is sex pervert. He showed it to the whole world, and you are surprised that some people find it crass and inappropriate for ocasion?
> 
> What you wear to public functions is always a kind of statement, even if you don't really plan for it.



It changes a lot. Especially what you were saying about the guy. 

Those that assume such, that's their problem and their prudishness to deal with. Because it seemed no one had any issue focusing on the matter at hand except for such individuals.


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## Hozukimaru (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> he is geek and so what. does that excuse him from wearing approprite clothes when he is representing his agency on national forum?
> 
> he isn't playing MTG or working at home/lab.



The law and ESA's dress code excuse him. 

A bunch of other people don't. He shouldn't care but instead he did and actually apologized. While giving in to such bs and encouraging them obviously doesn't speak highly of someone, nobody really cared about his apology as much as they did about the shirt.


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## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> You can try and _not_ interpret it? Not everything has an underlying meaning. It's not a fetish, it's just art on a shirt.
> 
> I'm sure that most heads of national banks wear casual clothes in their free time. In any case scientists _aren't_ heads of national banks. While the guy was apologizing he was wearing a _hoody_. Most of the other scientists were wearing _equally _casual clothes both before and after the incidence.


I'd argue that clothes with pictures of half naked ladies are more casual than those without them

head of national banks: profesionals picked for their skills
scientists working for ESA: profesionals picked for their skills


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## BiNexus (Nov 15, 2014)

I think this is really interesting as this happened at the same time as the Kim Kardashian mag photo shoot. It's an interesting juxtaposition on sexuality and how it's portrayed in media and the social 'court'. 

In that, we've got the same people decrying this scientist saying that she's celebrating her sexuality and can do whatever she pleases with her body, and is an empowering force for women to take control and own their sexuality. People that argue against _that_ are called prudish and are applying stereotypes constructed by social convention (read: patriarchy) and are against women.

So, if the case is that only women are able to appreciate the female body in public in some shape or form without there being the connotation of exploitation, some sort of predation, or misogyny, etc., it's clear that that is intrinsically unfair, and any group that would try to perpetuate such a stance is suspect. At what point is Kim Kardashian's 'contribution' considered a form of art and empowerment, and this shirt is not? If Kardashian's body was put on the shirt, would it be art and empowerment of the female body? If it was a woman, would the case be the same? It shows a severe disconnect within cases and what is considered fine, and what is vilified.

The case can be made, easily, that the shirt was unprofessional for an event such as that. However, to form a correlation to the oppression of a gender in a specific field, or overall as the case has been been made, and publicly lambaste him, is completely asinine.


----------



## soulnova (Nov 15, 2014)

BiNexus said:


> The case can be made, easily, that the shirt was unprofessional for an event such as that. However, to form a correlation to the oppression of a gender in a specific field, or overall as the case has been been made, and publicly lambaste him, is completely asinine.



/THREAD

Let's move on people.


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## Hozukimaru (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> I'd argue that clothes with pictures of half naked ladies are more casual than those without them
> 
> head of national banks: profesionals picked for their skills
> scientists working for ESA: profesionals picked for their skills



Indeed. But, again, it's up to the company to decide the dress code and how lax it can be.

Because that's how companies work?
Construction workers: professionals picked for their skills

 In any case, no offense to Dr. Matt Taylor but he's not nearly as important or well-paid as a central banker is, even that of a small nation.


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## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Hozukimaru said:


> Indeed. But, again, it's up to the company to decide the dress code and how lax it can be.
> 
> Because that's how companies work?
> Construction workers: professionals picked for their skills
> ...


IMO you have to meet some standars of appearance if you're working for governement/nation

he might not be as important as head of national bank but he was clearly more visible and vocal at that moment than average head of national bank.

But yyeah ESA doesn't have a formal dress code, I guess it bit them in the ass with that shirt. It was obvious that Dr. Taylor didn't think of that apology by himself. (Maybe ESA officials didn't mind the shirt because they thought it will make them look hip? maybe next time they tell the scientist to wear a shirt with puppies or bananas)


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## Garfield (Nov 15, 2014)

> Maybe ESA officials didn't mind the shirt because they thought it will make them look hip?



No, ESA officials didn't give a damn because everyone was busy checking for stuff that actually mattered.


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## Stunna (Nov 15, 2014)

if ESA didn't care what he wore, who are we to judge if he was dressed appropriately or not


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## Garfield (Nov 15, 2014)

Stunna said:


> if ESA didn't care what he wore, who are we to judge if he was dressed appropriately or not


Stunna I get yo' snark, but judging something way out of context is probably not the smartest however.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

if they really didn't care about the shirt buisness they would make him apologise


----------



## Jagger (Nov 15, 2014)

Velocity said:


> It's just pin up art. Believe it or not, people have those on all sorts of clothes as well as planes and cars and even tattoos. Calling pin up girls "masturbation material" makes you sound so prudish.


There's nothing wrong with the material shown in the shirt itself.

The only inconvenient and what I believe he could have done to prevent all of this was not put on that shirt. I do agree it was an extremely unnecessary reaction from those radical groups to attack him over such small detail.

However, that was no professional shirt and something that shouldn't be worn during an international conference.


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## Stunna (Nov 15, 2014)

adee said:


> Stunna I get yo' snark, but judging something way out of context is probably not the smartest however.


**


----------



## Garfield (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> if they really didn't care about the shirt buisness they would make him apologise


>implying companies do things not because public perception is more important than what they believe


----------



## Soca (Nov 15, 2014)

The irony when women say don't judge them for what they wear and yet here they are judging/bullying a man for what he's wearing. Admittedly the shirt is pretty tacky but at the same time it's just a shirt. If it were a female scientist who wore that she'd be praised for it and the shirt would be "empowering and endearing". Hell it probably wouldn't even be an issue at all. What's worse about this though is that the his feat of landing on a fucking comet is being overshadowed by this issue. Has anyone typed his name on google? The search results are a fucking disgrace



and that's just the bloody first page.

Shame on these sjws, shame on this soft skinned era.


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Jagger said:


> There's nothing wrong with the material shown in the shirt itself.
> 
> The only inconvenient and what I believe he could have done to prevent all of this was not put on that shirt. I do agree it was an extremely unnecessary reaction from those radical groups to attack him over such small detail.
> 
> However, that was no professional shirt and something that shouldn't be worn during an international conference.


so much this. reactions along the line "asteroid landing is not important because of your shirt" baffle me, but I still think that his shirt was inapporpriate



adee said:


> >implying companies do things not because public perception is more important than what they believe


>implying that ESA doesn't just care about space stuff
>implying that space stuff doesn't require money
>implying that getting money from governments doesn't rely on public perception


----------



## Lucky7 (Nov 15, 2014)

You know, I expected to see some tentacle hentai bondage type shit when I clicked on the link, but its basically just girls in bikini's. I've seen shirts with topless guys, are those okay or...? Whatver happened to women owning their sexuality and being able to dress whatever way they please and are still entitled to as much respect as any other human being? Is it that men finding women attractive a bad thing? I sort of understand if a woman feels uncomfortable looking at it, but c'mon.


The thing that stood out immediately to me is that he chose to wear that shirt to a professional interview, not that the content on it is offensive. It certainly didn't make me, as a girl thinking of getting into the science field, feel as if I were going to be objectified and my presence is unwanted in the field etc.

I feel as if a lot of "feminists" on tumblr don't have minds of their own and go along with whatever the popular opinion is in the top results of the femisnism tag.


----------



## soulnova (Nov 15, 2014)

Lucky7 said:


> The thing that stood out immediately to me is that he chose to wear that shirt to a professional interview, not that the content on it is offensive. It certainly didn't make me, as a girl thinking of getting into the science field, feel as if I were going to be objectified and my presence is unwanted in the field etc.



Exactly. 

Making remark of how "sexist" that shirt is was at least asinine. At most, it might have been unprofessional and is just one of many things to take into account when being face of a whole scientific team. Sure. On the other hand, still making a big of a deal about said stupid sexist remark is equally as stupid. Stop fueling it. 

*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 15, 2014)

Blue said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> Europe.


Huh. A Brit puts a probe on a comet. American feminazis complain. Yeah, fuck Europe, these assbackwards primitives.

Bitch, please.

This is the day when the political correctness officially went mad. Political correctness has always been an absurd thing to me, a thing made for the weak and stupid, but holy shit. How low can society go? Because it seems the retarded SJWs and victim-junkie feminazis like Sarkeesian are willing to drag us back into Dark Ages...

//HbS


----------



## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

soulnova said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Making remark of how "sexist" that shirt is was at least asinine. At most, it might have been unprofessional and is just one of many things to take into account when being face of a whole scientific team. Sure. On the other hand, still making a big of a deal about said stupid sexist remark is equally as stupid. Stop fueling it.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


I've seen arguments how this informal dudebro dress code is one of the things that makes women feel unwelcome in science fields.

not sure if I'm convinced that it's really a thing but it didn't sounds completely ridiculous like many of the "sexism! patriarchy! save me!" claims


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## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2014)

Fact: Marie Curie was almost one of the greatest scientists in history, but then came a funny shirt, and now we can't into x-rays


----------



## Blue (Nov 15, 2014)

Blown the fuck out of space and time


----------



## BiNexus (Nov 15, 2014)

Blue said:


> Blown the fuck out of space and time



Saw it coming, but

[ ] not rekt [x] rekt


----------



## Soca (Nov 15, 2014)

Blue said:


> Blown the fuck out of space and time



Patiently waiting for cop-out response to this


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 15, 2014)

My god its a fucking shirt. Shut the fuck and that dude needs to get himself together. He really just cried over that.


Adonis with the only good posts in this thread. I find it hilarious that it is the same people in every single feminism thread. These are the same people who put themselves on a moral pedestal ,but have no problem generalizing all feminists. It's juicy and before Seto tries to say say otherwise, please look at some of these posts. "fuck feminists","they're a plague", "feminists are dumb bitches". I dont see where in those posts do they specifically rag on the third wave. There are posters here who do specify(Mael) ,but lets not pretend they're the majority.


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## olaf (Nov 15, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Patiently waiting for cop-out response to this


I thought about writing one but then I realized that I sometimes I agree with "he/she deserved critcism because of what she/he was wearing"

and I gotta admit that I lol'd at that pic


----------



## Buskuv (Nov 15, 2014)

Do we need to have nerd walks?

Where neckbeards and weaboos where their blue flame shirts and bondage pants and anime backpacks and walk down the street in camaraderie.  He's being nerd shamed.


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## Tranquil Fury (Nov 15, 2014)

If humankind ever perfects colonisation in space, these people should never be allowed to go, infact they should be left behind on an Earth as rotting as their hearts.

This is basically focusing on the wrong thing as mentioned, a huge scientific discovery and THIS is what they want to cause a stir about?If a woman made the shirt and gave it to him, it's clearly speaking volumes where the priorities of these "feminists" lie. Not all women or feminists care about this stuff but there are attention seekers who just want to cause trouble and ruin lives.

That dude should be ashamed of himself for crying over this, at worst it was a bad choice of clothing from a female friend of his.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (Nov 15, 2014)

I mean I'm not saying these people who do stuff like this are a majority necessarily(they are more vocal arguably) but they are a cancer at this point and make actual feminists(going off the traditional equals rights and no more version) look bad. There are tons of pressing issues in the World and they latch onto the most insignificant ones or fan the flames of existing issues to start trouble.

At worst a simple apology and moving on would be enough. At best, it's just a shirt that does not reflect his views on gender necessarily. He should have worn a better shirt in public I agree but this is a tiny speck of dust on the things that matter scale. He should not have to be scared of being lynched mobbed.


----------



## GrimaH (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> I've seen arguments how this informal dudebro dress code is one of the things that makes women feel unwelcome in science fields.
> 
> not sure if I'm convinced that it's really a thing but it didn't sounds completely ridiculous like many of the "sexism! patriarchy! save me!" claims



I won't comment on the shirt thing itself anymore, but the academic sciences is a field that has been especially resistant to the very idea of having female representation, even in modernity. It's quite patriarchal for such a progressive part of human society, due to the perceived honor and prestige involved as a scientist throughout history. It's been rapidly changing the past few decades though, thanks to enlightened attitudes on gender equality.


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## Blue (Nov 15, 2014)

Females haven't been misrepresented or excluded from academia for 50 years, or more. In the last 20 years, women have come to dominate the social sciences. There are way more female sociologists, psycologists, etc than there are men.

That's not a problem, of course, but there are more male engineers? Call the police! Femininity has been robbed!

Ooooooor maybe women tend to suck at spatial reasoning. Maybe that's been proven in studies dating back 100 years. But no. Who cares.


----------



## Megaharrison (Nov 15, 2014)

Establishing race/gender quotas to engineering/medical shit is just plain dangerous. I mean who gives a fuck about Sociology it's all bullshit anyway, but otherwise no thanks.


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 15, 2014)

olaf said:


> I've seen arguments how this informal dudebro dress code is one of the things that makes women feel unwelcome in science fields.
> 
> not sure if I'm convinced that it's really a thing but it didn't sounds completely ridiculous like many of the "sexism! patriarchy! save me!" claims



If they don't like it, though shit. People are allowed to be dressed as they fucking want. If they want to be all ties and suits, good for them, have them use ties and suits, don't FORCE their dress code into other people.

Bosses will tell if there is dress code in the corporation, company or project, if bosses with an open mind decide is people deal how they want to dress and they only care about how well they do their job then they will dress however the fuck they want, period.

"Want to enter the work fiend? Good, but don't try to impose me to look how you want me to look like"


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 15, 2014)

sociology is to a real science the way alchemy is to chemistry


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## Soca (Nov 15, 2014)

Looking at the full design of the shirt it just boggles my mind that it even gets as much attention as it did 



This is basically how most female heroes look. Imagine if he wore a shirt of emma frost or power girl or black cat. He'd be hung on a tumblrina noose


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## Oceania (Nov 15, 2014)

Fuck all of you neo feminists. you all are a fucking cancer to society. I hope things get fucking worse you all of you. I wish I had power to fucking do so, I don't feel sorry you any of you fucking whores. I hope you continue to feel oppressed and it gets worse fuck you.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 15, 2014)

I can't believe _this_ is what they are making a fuss about. Accomplish an amazing scientific feat and they focus on a fucking shirt that his friend gave to him? Even worse is apologizing over something that is a non-issue. This is such a joke but I'm not laughing.


----------



## Blue (Nov 15, 2014)

Oceania said:


> Fuck all of you neo feminists. you all are a fucking cancer to society. I hope things get fucking worse you all of you. I wish I had power to fucking do so, I don't feel sorry you any of you fucking whores. I hope you continue to feel oppressed and it gets worse fuck you.



Breh

Most feminists are sane, reasonable people

I am a feminist

It's just the tumblr SJW who are female supremacists

Who don't want the black man, or the white man, or the anything man looking at them the wrong way

or it's time for a lynchin'


----------



## Oceania (Nov 15, 2014)

I'd understand if today's feminists focused on important things in today's society. Equal pay, being treated as equals in the working world. Having the same respect when in higher power jobs and such. But no, no this this is what you want of be outraged over. Doesn't matter that this person made an extraordinary feat of science, doesn't matter that in someway shape or form, this feat could help humanity learn a little bit more out our own universe. No no what you want to focus on and make a outrage over is a fucking shirt. Not to mention these are the same stupid cunts that would say "oh you think I'm dressed too promiscuously?" "Well stop oppressing me!" Most hypocritical people I've have ever seen....


----------



## Soca (Nov 15, 2014)

Oceania said:


> I'd understand if today's feminists focused on important things in today's society. *Equal pay, being treated as equals in the working world.* Having the same respect when in higher power jobs and such. But no, no this this is what you want of be outraged over. Doesn't matter that this person made an extraordinary feat of science, doesn't matter that in someway shape or form, this feat could help humanity learn a little bit more out our own universe. No no what you want to focus on and make a outrage over is a fucking shirt. Not to mention these are the same stupid cunts that would say "oh you think I'm dressed too promiscuously?" "Well stop oppressing me!" Most hypocritical people I've have ever seen....



Son haven't you heard?  

I feel bad for the real feminist out there, so much work being undone by the sjws.


----------



## Oceania (Nov 15, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Son haven't you heard?
> 
> I feel bad for the real feminist out there, so much work being undone by the sjws.



that's why I hate seeing things like this it only make both parties look bad.


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## Pilaf (Nov 16, 2014)

The other party being?

The original guy in question didn't look bad to me until he broke down like a little bitch and apologized for something that wasn't even bad. He should have remained unapologetic.


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

10 pages! 

We're doing it!


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## Oceania (Nov 16, 2014)

check my sig.


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## brolmes (Nov 16, 2014)

i wish somebody would skin all these feminist retards alive and turn them into shirts


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## ExoSkel (Nov 16, 2014)

People should be talking about the very first human's achievement of landing on comet. And of course, these fucking feminist SJW clowns will twist the entire story over the fucking shirt.

The worst part is that moderate feminists aren't calling these clowns out and rarely tries to stay out of the scene. These SJWs are a complete poison to this society.


----------



## brolmes (Nov 16, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Looking at the full design of the shirt it just boggles my mind that it even gets as much attention as it did
> 
> 
> 
> This is basically how most female heroes look. Imagine if he wore a shirt of emma frost or power girl or black cat. He'd be hung on a tumblrina noose



these all look like empowered women to me


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## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Oceania said:


> I'd understand if today's feminists focused on important things in today's society. Equal pay, being treated as equals in the working world. Having the same respect when in higher power jobs and such. But no, no this this is what you want of be outraged over. Doesn't matter that this person made an extraordinary feat of science, doesn't matter that in someway shape or form, this feat could help humanity learn a little bit more out our own universe. No no what you want to focus on and make a outrage over is a fucking shirt. Not to mention these are the same stupid cunts that would say "oh you think I'm dressed too promiscuously?" "Well stop oppressing me!" Most hypocritical people I've have ever seen....


too bad that people defending the shirt are just as bad as the crazy SJW crowd

on imgur there is the echo chamber of people claiming that dr taylor has the right to express because it's his birth right (or something), but if you try to mention that you find the shirt unprofessional it turns out that you have no right to talk and you are scum of the earth (plus it turned out that I'm advocating burning of the shirt and that I'm saying that women can walk naked without being called names and men can't do anything without females telling them it's okay)

it's like "yeah so you wanna show that those SJW are wrong? obviously the best option is to match their vitrol and lack or reason"



surprisingly I found a nice article on  about this whole shirt debacle, that is the best reflection on my views. (TBH I'm still not convinced that this "hostile for women enviroment" is a big thing that really stops women from doing much in science)


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## ExoSkel (Nov 16, 2014)

But I have to admit, it's a tacky as fuck looking t-shirt to wear for the interview regarding humanity's first achievement of landing on comet.


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## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

ExoSkel said:


> But I have to admit, it's a tacky as fuck looking t-shirt to wear for the interview regarding humanity's first achievement of landing on comet.


I agree. but apparently saying so is crime against space exploration and freedom of expression and is proof of females opressing males


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## brolmes (Nov 16, 2014)

how about you stop giving a fuck what other people wear as if it matters

oh my fucking god this primate who was born naked isn't wearing pieces of fabric that are certain colors that have arbitrarily been classed as socially acceptable and it isn't cut into a certain arbitrarily decided shape

AND WHY DOES HE NOT HAVE A LOOP OF CLOTH AROUND HIS NECK WITH A KNOT AT THE FRONT AND A DANGLY PART HANGING DOWN THE MIDDLE OF HIS CHEST

HOW UNPROFESSIONAL

his professionalism lies in putting shit on space rocks

he's not a model.. clothes have nothing to do with his profession

maybe if we just killed all the retards who focus on superficial meaningless bullshit and rewarded the dudes who landed on comets we could all be running around naked on mars


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## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

brolmes said:


> -Snip-



I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but...

You wouldn't want to be running around naked on Mars.

Trust me on this, I'm a Mars Doctor.


----------



## Soca (Nov 16, 2014)

Ay did any girls at this dudes work comment on this shitty topic? Wanna know their opinions, were they offended?


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## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

brolmes said:


> how about you stop giving a fuck what other people wear as if it matters
> 
> oh my fucking god this primate who was born naked isn't wearing pieces of fabric that are certain colors that have arbitrarily been classed as socially acceptable and it isn't cut into a certain arbitrarily decided shape
> 
> ...


when I'm seeing my tax money at work I prefer to not be distracted by tacky shirts with half naked ladies.

and if you are so against social norms and dress codes then wear this shirt to your grandmas funeral ("I loved her so why do you care what I wear?") or to a job interview ("I'm great specialist so why do you care about my clothes?").

Guess what, people care about your clothes, even if they may not know it. Your clothes are always some sort of statement even if it's not intentional. Of course people who interact with you might know that you aren't what your clothes my imply (like even though you are dresses like a bum, you are very meticulous and clean when it comes to your work) but don't expect people that don't know you to make snap judgements based on your appearance.

Dress codes and social norms vary depending from time and culture, but they are always there. It's a social shorthand that makes it easier for use to judge other people because  we don't have the time to have deep intereactions with everyone we meet.

Do you know why people dress up for offical ocassions? Because it shows that you care and respect the occasion and others involved in it. That you took the extra 5 min to pick your clothes because it's important to you. But like I said dress codes and social norms change so what is "official event" and what is "not casual attire" varies much more now


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> when I'm seeing my tax money at work I prefer to not be distracted by tacky shirts with half naked ladies.



In other words, it's your own fault for giving the shirt more attention than was necessary.

Goodbye. :33


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Ay did any girls at this dudes work comment on this shitty topic? Wanna know their opinions, were they offended?


they were probably offended that the shirt stole the attention from the probe



but generaly your "if one X isn't offended, it means that other X's can't be offended by it" argument is weak.

I mean you might work in environment where everyone uses foul language, and after a while you get used to it even if you don't like it (because "it's just" words, they don't really mean that much). But that doesn't mean it should be widely acceptable.

of course jobs that are associated with low class workers migh be more accepting of swearing (or other rude behavior) but that doesn't mean that everybody should act like that, or that there is nothing wrong with it.



Yami Munesanzun said:


> In other words, it's your own fault for giving the shirt more attention than was necessary.
> 
> Goodbye. :33


yes, it's my fault for not agreeing that I'm scum of the earth because someone has different view on "job appropriate attire"


I need learn2read


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2014)

You have to be one superficial and simplistic friend to even notice the shirt behind that guy's amazing scientific accomplishment. 

//HbS


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> yes, it's my fault for not agreeing that I'm scum of the earth because someone has different view on "job appropriate attire"



That's not what I said in the slightest.

Lrnhao2reed.


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> You have to be one superficial and simplistic friend to even notice the shirt behind that guy's amazing scientific accomplishment.
> 
> //HbS


I thought about his shirt "that's tacky and job inappropriate" and then went to read about comet stuff

but then the shitstorm happened and it turned out that if I'm not pro shirt then I'm scum of the earth, stomping on his individuality etc. Then I thought why exactly I find his shirt job inappropriate



Yami Munesanzun said:


> That's not what I said in the slightest.
> 
> Lrnhao2reed.


you're right. for some reason I thought that you qouted different part of my post. weird.

and tbh I wasn't *that* much distracted by his shirt, and generaly I didn't spent much thought on it until it turned out that freedom of expression forbids me from expressing my thoughts on the shirt.


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 16, 2014)




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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 16, 2014)

This is evidence that the human race is going backwards. We have just achieved something unimaginable that we could have only dreamed of happening yet people are more concerned as to what he was wearing? Fucking pathetic.  People really need to stop getting offended and/or upset about the slightest things. This guy's shirt is not sexist. Try devoting all of that supposed sympathy for women who have to face real sexism on a daily basis such as those who are being jailed for attending a volleyball match, not having the right to drive a car, and having their rights to converse with the opposite sex prohibited because they're not married to the men they speak to. Fucking hell, this is borderline pedantic and insanity meshed into one clusterfuck of a movement that bark for 'equality' yet they're the one's tainting their own image.


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## Orochibuto (Nov 16, 2014)

I would love to be a scientist that discover the cure for cancer or some breakthrough technology, go to a conference, have feminists call me on my sexist shirt, then destroy on camera my breakthrough technology and say:

 "You know what? Since according to you my shirt is so sexist and so important to you it overshadows the accomplishment I did, you win. I vow and swear I will not use that shirt for the rest of my life, in fact I will take it off me right now and handle it to those offended by it so they can do whatever they want with it. I destroyed my technology, as it was so redundant versus a shirt I considered it must be worth nothing so now you have no distraction and can keep talking about the shirt. So there you have it, I apologize for my shirt and vow to never use it again. Hope it was worth it."


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Nov 16, 2014)

Orochibuto said:


> I would love to be a scientist that discover the cure for cancer or some breakthrough technology, go to a conference, have feminists call me on my sexist shirt, then destroy on camera my breakthrough technology and say:
> 
> "You know what? Since according to you my shirt is so sexist and so important to you it overshadows the accomplishment I did, you win. I vow and swear I will not use that shirt for the rest of my life, in fact I will take it off me right now and handle it to those offended by it so they can do whatever they want with it. I destroyed my technology, as it was so redundant versus a shirt I considered it must be worth nothing so now you have no distraction and can keep talking about the shirt. So there you have it, I apologize for my shirt and vow to never use it again. Hope it was worth it."




But Orochibuto, he put a comet on an asteroid moving at 34,000 Miles per hour. he just defied gravity, one of the biggest feats of space exploration to ever occur in 50 years! What exactly must I commend him for more? Such ridiculousness in their inability to chose which topic is the 'important' one and which is the trivial one. The aforementioned feat, or a shirt he decided to wear in the morning?  But my goodness, you cannot beat the left wing sexism brigade all because of what you chose to wear this morning. I think the "people" who attacked this man are idiotic and talentless hacks with no other joy in their lives besides bullying anyone who is not as insane as they are. This is a real parody of respect.


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 16, 2014)

Part of me thinks that his detractors perhaps feel so unaccomplished in their lives and that they will never achieve anything, that maybe his shirt bullying is done in an attempt to portray "wearing the right shirt" as something equivalent or more important to this guy's feat, therefore validating their lives as significant because of their shirt collection.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2014)

//HbS


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 16, 2014)

LOL people are so blind from hate they cannot see olaf has a point. It won't be long before sjws have an equal annoying, uneducated, bitchy opposition.


----------



## Soca (Nov 16, 2014)

Normality said:


> LOL people are so blind from hate they cannot see olaf has a point. It won't be long before sjws have an equal annoying, uneducated, bitchy opposition.



Yes we see olaf is neutral on it. It's not right that he gets judged but it's also not right for him to have worn such attire at such an occasion. *BUT*, one has to admit that the judgement on his shirt isn't supposed to completely overshadow his achievement. It would've been fine if people just said "hey that shirt is pretty tacky" because yea, technically it is, but to piggyback on this to push some feminazi agenda and say it stops women from going into STEM, is completely nuts. I mean these are the same chicks who supposedly feed on mens tears and are all about woman power but then they get soft skin and feel victimized as soon as stuff like this happens.

 It's crazy 



olaf said:


> they were probably offended that the shirt stole the attention from the probe
> 
> 
> 
> but generaly your "if one X isn't offended, it means that other X's can't be offended by it" argument is weak.



I wasn't making an argument I was asking a question on what they think about this shitty shirt debacle. I imagine they don't wanna say anything because that would just make it a bigger deal and the only big deal they want to be shown is landing on a comet.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> Do you know why people dress up for offical ocassions? Because it shows that you care and respect the occasion and others involved in it. That you took the extra 5 min to pick your clothes because it's important to you. But like I said dress codes and social norms change so what is "official event" and what is "not casual attire" varies much more now


What makes you think that a random press interview was so important to him? If I was in his position I would regard it as a sideshow. After all, the press seemed perfectly happy to report on the bouncing probe based a tweet, no press interviews required. If he was presenting a paper you could regard it as more important, but in that case none of his audience would care what he's wearing, so he could wear that shirt anyway no problems.


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Yes we see olaf is neutral on it. It's not right that he gets judged but it's also not right for him to have worn such attire at such an occasion. *BUT*, one has to admit that the judgement on his shirt isn't supposed to completely overshadow his achievement. It would've been fine if people just said "hey that shirt is pretty tacky" because yea, technically it is, but to piggyback on this to push some feminazi agenda and say it stops women from going into STEM, is completely nuts. I mean these are the same chicks who supposedly feed on mens tears and are all about woman power but then they get soft skin and feel victimized as soon as stuff like this happens.
> 
> It's crazy


some of the comments made by people who found his shirt inappropriate are really over the line. I can understand why someone would be mad, but dr taylor apologized, and you still think that he has to be let go? or saying that comet landing is unimportant because of his shirt, like c'mon you sound very anti science saying that.

But in all honesty I had to look for those extreme comments/articles, those I've saw first were talking about work inapporpriate attire and problem of dudebro attitude prevalent in science (I'm not sure how real is the problem in case of women in science, but I believe that mulititude of "it's just a..." things can create a hostile enviroment sometimes). Hell even those tame articles I found out because I've seen on imgur how poor scientist is harassed by evil women.

On most news streams I follow I didn't see a thing about the shirt. wait. io9 posted one piece about it (I think I linked it before) but that's it.

I can understand people being angry about "shirt taking over the narrative" but IMO it's not the case in most places, and talking about it after dr. taylor apologized will eventualy make it overshadow comet buisness.


Marcellina said:


> I wasn't making an argument I was asking a question on what they think about this shitty shirt debacle. I imagine they don't wanna say anything because that would just make it a bigger deal and the only big deal they want to be shown is landing on a comet.


well sorry. I've seen so many silly "his girl friend made it so what are you talking about" arguments that I'm assuming the worst from people.

and I agree that his female co workers won't comment on the shirt so this sad buisness can die out.


jetwaterluffy1 said:


> What makes you think that a random press interview was so important to him? If I was in his position I would regard it as a sideshow. After all, the press seemed perfectly happy to report on the bouncing probe based a tweet, no press interviews required. If he was presenting a paper you could regard it as more important, but in that case none of his audience would care what he's wearing, so he could wear that shirt anyway no problems.


people call it one of greatests achievments of man in space and you say that press releasa that was about it is unimportant?

plus guy got tattoo about probe landing on the comet, but press release during which we find out wheter or not probe actualy managed to land on said comet is no big deal to him?

another thing that screams unimportant buisness is the fact that the feed from the landing (and folowing press release) was encouraged to be shown in schools and educational centers around the world. and we know that nothing important ever gets that.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2014)

Normality said:


> LOL people are so blind from hate they cannot see olaf has a point. It won't be long before sjws have an equal annoying, uneducated, bitchy opposition.


We get his point. We just don't agree. He didn't wear the shirt to a funeral or a job interview. He wore it to a rather casual interview with a reporter. Sure, it may not  be a shirt I'd choose, but he was well within his rights to wear it without consequences. Even if he wasn't, in comparison to his accomplishment, the shirt is so insignificant nobody would ever notice.

But we live in a world where people live, people that get their motor running from gender inequality issues, and they are so addicted to it they go as far as creating new issues constantly, being offended by everything, even where the issue doesn't exist or isn't offensive. 

He's wearing an odd shirt. Big fucking deal. Do the world a favour and either grow up or kill yourself AND your offspring, just in case. Humanity doesn't deserve to be held back as a species by a bunch of overly sensitive morons.

//HbS


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> He's wearing an odd shirt. Big fucking deal. *Do the world a favour and either grow up or kill yourself AND your offspring, just in case. Humanity doesn't deserve to be held back as a species by a bunch of overly sensitive morons.*
> 
> //HbS


are people defending his shirt in this way really expect anybody to become more sympathetic to their cause?


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 16, 2014)

Hbs. this guy is so stupid. All I said was olaf has a point and I apparently deserve to die for that. So much better than the feminazis. LOL. Keep turning into the same people you hate. Youre halfway there.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> are people defending his shirt in this way really expect anybody to become more sympathetic to their cause?





Normality said:


> Hbs. this guy is so stupid. All I said was olaf has a point and I apparently deserve to die for that. So much better than the feminazis. LOL. Keep turning into the same people you hate. Youre halfway there.


I was talking about people like Anita Sarkeesian, Chris Plante or Arielle Duhaime-Ross, not the two of you.

These people need to grow up or die, yes. Preferably former, but victim-junkie detox isn't easy.

By the way, I like how you focused so hard on one part of that sentence, and completly ignored the pretty legit "grow up".

//HbS


----------



## Jagger (Nov 16, 2014)

You know, it's extremely ironic to tell someone to kill themselves for being overly sensitive about a shirt.

Which I agree about nitpicking a smaill detail, but it's still ironic.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 16, 2014)

> Astrophysicist Katie Mack said earlier this week "I don't care what scientists wear. But a shirt featuring women in lingerie isn't appropriate for a broadcast if you care about women in science"



How ? It's a hot woman, wielding a futuristic gun ! How much more " science and women " can this get ?


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> I was talking about people like Anita Sarkeesian, Chris Plante or Arielle Duhaime-Ross, not the two of you.
> 
> These people need to grow up or die, yes. Preferably former, but victim-junkie detox isn't easy.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I can't read your mind, and I assumed you mean me since you know you were talking to me.

and sorry for not adressing your 'grow up' argument, but you seem to claim that it's no big deal and nothing official when there is world wide transmission of a project that took shitload of cash and 10 years to complete. How can I talk about growing up with you?



Jagger said:


> You know, it's extremely ironic to tell someone to kill themselves for being overly sensitive about a shirt.
> 
> Which I agree about nitpicking a smaill detail, but it's still ironic.


but don't tell them that they are too outraged about someone else being too outraged.


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> How ? It's a hot woman, wielding a futuristic gun ! How much more " science and women " can this get ?


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 16, 2014)

Seriously what is the argument to label that shirt sexist ? I have lots of comic book characters shirts and most of them there's a man that is ripped fighting or just there .

Is it sexist if a woman wears a shirt like this in front of me ? Would it be inappropriate if woman was wearing this in the conference ?


----------



## Jagger (Nov 16, 2014)

Yes, it's sexist.

We need masculism because I don't want to see six foot tall ripped man fighting monsters. 

#don'toppressme


----------



## olaf (Nov 16, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Seriously what is the argument to label that shirt sexist ? I have lots of comic book characters shirts and most of them there's a man that is ripped fighting or just there .


sexy chicks plastered over his shirt? you don't see characters, you see 'sexy babes' that are on his shirt because they are sexy and barely clothed.

When he was wearing the shirt he wasn't just Mr Taylor, he was dr. Matt Taylor of ESA, he represented multinacional agency backed by billions of euros and he chose to wear a shirt with scantily clad ladies on it.

If he doesn't have problem showing sexualised chicks on his shirt to everyone who watches the news feed (which includes bunch of kids since schools and educational centers were encouraged to transmit the feed), and his bosses don't see anything wrong with that maybe it means that focusing on sexines of chicks isn't as backwards as some say.

that's the gist of the argument about sexism of the shirt. Not sure if it convinces me completely but I see some points of it

and there is vast amount of articles about sexualisation of characters in comics, how females are sexualized prizes and men are perfections that boys can't ever match etc. 

I'd tell you to search for it, but there is so much SJW shit there that it's easy to get angry


Mr. Black Leg said:


> Is it sexist if a woman wears a shirt like this in front of me ? Would it be inappropriate if woman was wearing this in the conference ?


sex themed attire isn't appropriate for work environment. if you work in porn buisness then maybe it's okay, but dunno


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> sexy chicks plastered over his shirt? you don't see characters, you see 'sexy babes' that are on his shirt because they are sexy and barely clothed.
> 
> When he was wearing the shirt he wasn't just Mr Taylor, he was dr. Matt Taylor of ESA, he represented multinacional agency backed by billions of euros and he chose to wear a shirt with scantily clad ladies on it.
> 
> ...



So, a ripped guy with space weapons that is not a character would be sexism against me ? I hardly think so, and I hardly would feel slightly offended about a girl giving a speech on how they just fucking landed on a comet while wearing one of those .

Appropriate is the worst word ever to talk about this . In my country, in various places, it's fucking hot, and men have to wear suits all day long while working and fucking melting . 

So the suit is visibly appropriate, but not a chance in hell it's " appropriate " in many occasions for the person that is using it, so appropriate  only aplies to the well being of others ? Also, I think anyone wearing a suit in Brazil is offensive to brazilian culture, as suits are european and a symbol of opression that europeans dominated and turned into slaves native brazilians .

Can I get a shitstorm because someone in a meeting was wearing a suit ?

The guy was dressed in way that would go off the standard on purpose, it had nothing to do with trying to show that males are better than females, he was just wearing a shirt that he found cool . 

I find it really fucking idiotic to see women that are feminist complaining about this kinda of thing . Feminism fought for the sexual freedom of women, not being a taboo a woman haivng sex with many dudes, or masturbating, etc, but when it comes to women as sexy they are fucking " Oh this is wrong ! " . Why is it wrong ? Sex is good, sexualizing is good . Of course that saying a woman is only good for sex is idiotic, but having my image related to sex, would be very fucking good in my opinion .

Men also get sexualized as fucked, and I'm not fucking complaining, I find it good, sex is a good thing .


----------



## Pilaf (Nov 16, 2014)

So does anyone know if that robot  that the human race landed on a fucking comet found any organic material yet?


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 16, 2014)

Unlikely . Only a tardigrada would be in there .


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 16, 2014)

Jagger said:


> You know, it's extremely ironic to tell someone to kill themselves for being overly sensitive about a shirt.
> 
> Which I agree about nitpicking a smaill detail, but it's still ironic.


It's not ironic. It would be if I was angry or hateful. Instead, I'm just tired. Tired of these people, tired of hearing about imaginary sexism, tired of social ignorance and arrogance. There's been a decade-long build-up, this isn't caused by a single incident. If it was, then yes, it'd be ironic AND hypocritical. 


olaf said:


> I'm sorry I can't read your mind, and I assumed you mean me since you know you were talking to me.


Sorry, my bad here. 

//HbS


----------



## Orochibuto (Nov 16, 2014)

People are allowed and should be allowed to dress however the fuck you want, thanks God, even multinational coroporations are moving away from imposing dress codes and allowing people to look how they fucking want as long as they do their jobs.

I hope the woman that designed this shirt becomes a millionaire or billionaire by selling the shirt, making the shirt famous. The delicious irony, the shit against the shirt made the shirt famous.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

damnit, olaf!

you said you were going to take a break from this "shirt business" 

go on, git!


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2014)

Ever go to an engineering school? I had female classmates who would bring giant Marijuana sweaters to class. One of my classmates did an entire presentation with a novelty souvenir t-shirt that didn't had scanataly clad women in it, it straight up had people FUCKING


People are not told to care in that envyroment


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> people call it one of greatests achievments of man in space and you say that press releasa that was about it is unimportant?
> 
> plus guy got tattoo about probe landing on the comet, but press release during which we find out wheter or not probe actualy managed to land on said comet is no big deal to him?
> 
> another thing that screams unimportant buisness is the fact that the feed from the landing (and folowing press release) was encouraged to be shown in schools and educational centers around the world. and we know that nothing important ever gets that.


The fact that it is one of the greatest achievements of aerospace is _why_ the press conference is unimportant. The discussions with engineers before and afterwards, the data analysis, the construction of scientific theories on the data, and conferences that actual scientists turn up to, as opposed to journalists; are all far more important than some random press interview he might have to go to. As I said, they don't even _need_ interviews. The press gets most of their information from twitter.


----------



## Banhammer (Nov 16, 2014)

If a hundred years ago, you'd told Rosa Parks: One day we''ll use feminism to bully a man who lands a rocket on a comet into tears, that lady would have sat on the back of the bus


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

Banhammer said:


> If a hundred years ago, you'd told Rosa Parks: One day we''ll use feminism to bully a man who lands a rocket on a comet into tears, that lady would have sat on the back of the bus



Rosa Parks happened in 1914?


----------



## Oceania (Nov 16, 2014)

olaf said:


> if you don't see how females might have problems with that shirt, you don't really know what feminism was about.



But a woman is who made the shirt though......


----------



## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 16, 2014)

Who cares a woman made the shirt. That's a stupid ass point to make.


----------



## Sanity Check (Nov 16, 2014)

Was anyone upset over this other than feminists who protest women being depicted as sex objects by showing ppl their boobs?

.


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## Orochibuto (Nov 16, 2014)

Engineers are encouraged to be creative. Have you seen some of the engineering sectors in some corporations? Some of them look like and quite literally are fucking arcades.

They are supposed to be who they want to be stimulating their creative power and stick to doing their jobs, which they do and very well.

If even multinational corporations now are more or less moving away from the retarded concept that a tie and a suit somehow influence how well you do your job, this is SPECIALLY true for engineering.

TL;DR - People are allowed to dress however the fuck they want, even more so when their bosses allow it and even more so when not being restricted to such trivialities HELP in doing your job.

I find it funny that feminists complain so much (and this is one of the things they are completely right in complaining about) women being forced to wear burkas in arabic countries but they want to impose how other people dress and look like.


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## Sanity Check (Nov 16, 2014)

Engineers all look like that because they let their moms dress them.  

True story, bro.


----------



## Yami Munesanzun (Nov 16, 2014)

Sanity Check said:


> Engineers all look like that because they let their moms dress them.
> 
> True story, bro.



Nope.avi             .


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 17, 2014)

Normality said:


> Who cares a woman made the shirt. That's a stupid ass point to make.


No, it's a great point. It shows that feminazis are ignorant hypocrites that look down on other women, "no, we know what's best for you more than you do".

Just think about it for a second. A woman creates a shirt. Feminazis call it _misogynistic_. Do you see what's wrong with this picture?

edit: lol


//HbS


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Next time he should wear this one:


Zuckerberg's plain gray t-shirt was also sexist:





> Steve Jobs had his simple black turtlenecks, Twitter’s Jack Dorsey had his sharp Prada suit, and Mark Zuckerberg has his uniform of nondescript, plain gray T-shirts. At a recent Q&A session, someone finally asked him why he seems to have a lifetime supply of inoffensive, poorly fitting gray tees.
> 
> His answer: “I’m in this really lucky position where I get to wake up every day and help serve more than a billion people. And I’d feel I’m not doing my job if I spent any of my energy on things that are silly or frivolous about my life.”
> 
> Burn, Zuckerberg! Is it just me or does the mindset of the Silicon Valley Power-Schlub imply that caring about clothing or how you look invalidates your ability to work? Of course, male CEOs are far too focused on changing the world or building the next Big App to care about something as “silly” or “frivolous” as dressing professionally — they’ll just leave that to Marissa Mayer.


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## olaf (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Next time he should wear this one:
> 
> 
> Zuckerberg's plain gray t-shirt was also sexist:


becuase that burka shirt wouldn't get people talking about it. and nobody would wonder "why did he wear it? is he protesting forcing women to cover their bodies, or maybe he supports that?"

that wouldn't steal the spotlight from the landing at all. nope

it's like wearing extravagant/controversial (and sex/violence/political statements are always controversial) clothes while doing official work for a company might distract people from things you want them to focus on.

it's like that was one of the reasons why dress codes even exist.

but nahhhhhh. it's just those fashion facists that want to stop people from being awesome, it has nothing to do with how humans work



oh and they didn't call zukebregs shirt sexists, they called his explanation on why he wore it sexist. it's like you want to reshape facts to fit your worldview just like those sjw morons.


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Nope. There are plenty of shirts that have shirtless, muscular men on them that are extremely popular. Shirts of Mohammad Ali and Bruce Lee are just some examples. There are plenty of shirts featuring DBZ characters and superheroes that I see people wearing all the time.

Be honest, if a woman was wearing those shirts talking to the press do you believe that there would be any outrage?

The burka shirt was very clearly a joke. Just like the #iamperfect campaign on twitter, this issue wasn't about actual sexism, it was about the insecurity of those who were offended.

The Mark Zuckerberg explanation wasn't sexist. The entire idea behind that article was absurd to begin with and actually, if read into, promotes very culturally sexist ideas about women. Like the idea that they care more about fashion and clothes than anything of real importance, like running a multi-billion dollar company. The author seemed upset that Zuckerberg insulted fashion more than anything else.


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## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Next time he should wear this one:


uh....in what way would that be appropriate .___.? You'd get just as much of a reaction if not more. 




He clearly wasn't attempting to be sexist with the shirt, though it's definitely inappropriate. 
If he wore a shirt with a bunch of hot guy models on it, in little speedos people would also be like...wtf  Though in this situation we'd probably get a sexuality debate too


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Nope. There are plenty of shirts that have shirtless, muscular men on them that are extremely popular. Shirts of Mohammad Ali and Bruce Lee are just some examples. There are plenty of shirts featuring DBZ characters and superheroes that I see people wearing all the time.
> 
> Be honest, if a woman was wearing those shirts talking to the press do you believe that there would be any outrage?
> 
> ...


DISCLAIMER: MATT TAYLOR IS NOT SEXIST FOR WEARING A SHIRT WITH DOMINATRIXES ON IT

I was going to say something about how Bruce/Ali are portrayed as opposed to the women on Dr. Taylor's shirt, but it looks like they are all portrayed as equally aggressive.  Bruce/Ali shirts are usually them flexing, showing their strength something like that.  The anime ladies on Taylor's shirt are all equally showing dominance or aggression.  So, I can see your point about comparing the two.
Pretty sure he's into doms, just sayin'  #don'thate

Although it is equally UNPROFESSIONAL (not sexist) if a woman is wearing an Ali shirt at a conference, people wouldn't probably care as much because it was his job to be shirtless, he was a boxer after all. Wearing a shirt with him, you want people to know how tough you are or how you strive to persevere and overcome your enemies (same with Bruce, though Bruce had more *philosophical teachings as well as physical discipline*).
I mean, the ladies on Taylor's shirt might say the same thing but we don't know who these ladies are ().


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## olaf (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Nope. There are plenty of shirts that have shirtless, muscular men on them that are extremely popular. Shirts of Mohammad Ali and Bruce Lee are just some examples. There are plenty of shirts featuring DBZ characters and superheroes that I see people wearing all the time.


Somehow I don't see people wearing shirt with half naked people or superheroes when they're making official statements for companies or government agencies. And that whole press conference was official event that was supposed to be transmitted around the world.


MartyMcFly1 said:


> Be honest, if a woman was wearing those shirts talking to the press do you believe that there would be any outrage?


of course there would be outrage, not only would people call her unprofesional but shitload of people would argue how shitty of her to take the spotlight from the event with her fashion choice.


MartyMcFly1 said:


> The burka shirt was very clearly a joke. Just like the #iamperfect campaign on twitter, this issue wasn't about actual sexism, it was about the insecurity of those who were offended.


except that shirt is still inappropriate for officail envent during work. That's the biggest concern, for many people. 

Some women argue that dr. taylors attitude that plastering yourself with half naked chicks to work without thinking what other people might think (it's not his private company, he isn't allowed to do whatever he wants) is part of the problematic dudebro attitude in science that discourage  women from pursing career in science (again, I'm not convinced that this problem is a big one)

It's that he was representing government funded agency on one of their most important events that might send wrong message to some people that ruffled most feathers. (maybe his friends didn't interpret that shirt as "you know what's great about chicks? tites and ass!" but the shirt was displayed to more than just his friends)

The shirt itself? I find it tacky and kind visual unpleasing (those colours ugh) but it's hard to call her sexist without having some sort of context for it.


MartyMcFly1 said:


> The Mark Zuckerberg explanation wasn't sexist. The entire idea behind that article was absurd to begin with and actually, if read into, promotes very culturally sexist ideas about women. Like the idea that they care more about fashion and clothes than anything of real importance, like running a multi-billion dollar company. The author seemed upset that Zuckerberg insulted fashion more than anything else.


the explanation can be read as a sexist, because Zuckerberg calls caring about your appearance silly and firvolous. And who is known to put more care into their appearance? women.

of course I don't believe that you should interpret Zuckerbergs words as sexist (he clearly to show that he is focused on the job not that EVERYONE who puts any care in his look is stupid) but it's not that hard to warp that sentence into empitome of casual sexism


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2014)

LesExit said:


> uh....in what way would that be appropriate .___.? You'd get just as much of a reaction if not more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I doubt guys would really care other than a few raised eyebrows and gay jokes.


----------



## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> I doubt guys would really care other than a few raised eyebrows and gay jokes.


Basically the point. There are just certain things most people wouldn't consider wearing in that situation, that would only distract people from what you want them to focus on. I myself really couldn't care less what most people wear, unless it was blatantly offensive like, "God hates ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)!"


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Nov 18, 2014)

LesExit said:


> Basically the point. There are just certain things most people wouldn't consider wearing in that situation, that would only distract people from what you want them to focus on. I myself really couldn't care less what most people wear, unless it was blatantly offensive like, "God hates ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)!"



It wasn't an issue or distraction until prudish feminists made it so.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

olaf said:


> Somehow I don't see people wearing shirt with half naked people or superheroes when they're making official statements for companies or government agencies. And that whole press conference was official event that was supposed to be transmitted around the world.



The next day at the apology he was wearing a sweatshirt and jeans. The man next to him had on jeans as well. This was obviously not a formal event, and Matt Taylor is not a celebrity with extensive media training.

The woman who initially sparked the outrage over Matt's shirt saw the apology and said, "_Glad to hear @mggtTaylor recognized his mistake & apologized (live stream isn't working for me) and we can both move along with our lives._"

Now that he's been bullied to the point where he cried on National television with a story that has overshadowed his amazing scientific achievement, she is satisfied.



olaf said:


> of course there would be outrage, not only would people call her unprofesional but shitload of people would argue how shitty of her to take the spotlight from the event with her fashion choice.



That's dishonest and simply false. Nobody would care. The outrage that I've seen has almost nothing to do with him being unprofessional and everything to do with "_the sexism that his shirt represents_,"

No men _or women_ would care if a woman had on a shirt with a musclebound man on it. Rightfully so.



olaf said:


> except that shirt is still inappropriate for officail envent during work. That's the biggest concern, for many people.



Once again, that isn't true. The sexism angle was the largest one that I've seen from pretty much every news outlet, and all of the news outlets that initially reported on it.



olaf said:


> Some women argue that dr. taylors attitude that plastering yourself with half naked chicks to work without thinking what other people might think (it's not his private company, he isn't allowed to do whatever he wants) is part of the problematic dudebro attitude in science that discourage  women from pursing career in science (again, I'm not convinced that this problem is a big one)


Like I said before, do you believe that if anyone (man or woman) had on a Bruce Lee, Mohammad Ali, superhero, etc. shirt at a casual day at work that there would be _any _outrage whatsoever? Be honest.




olaf said:


> the explanation can be read as a sexist, because Zuckerberg calls caring about your appearance silly and firvolous. And who is known to put more care into their appearance? women.
> 
> of course I don't believe that you should interpret Zuckerbergs words as sexist (he clearly to show that he is focused on the job not that EVERYONE who puts any care in his look is stupid) but it's not that hard to warp that sentence into empitome of casual sexism



Let's say, hypothetically, that Mark Zuckerberg called baking and sewing (traditionally feminine activities, like fashion) silly and frivolous and a man decided to speak out and call his comments sexist against women. What would the narrative be? Would Mark Zuckerberg still be sexist, or would the man speaking out be sexist instead because he assumed that women would be offended by such a statement?


----------



## Blue (Nov 18, 2014)

olaf said:


> of course there would be outrage, not only would people call her unprofesional but shitload of people would argue how shitty of her to take the spotlight from the event with her fashion choice.



This guy wasn't project head or anything, he was one of a hundred mooks working on it. Nobody could possibly have cared outside the feminist tripe and the violent reaction to it.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (Nov 18, 2014)

olaf said:


> oh and they didn't call zukebregs shirt sexists, they called his explanation on why he wore it sexist. it's like you want to reshape facts to fit your worldview just like those sjw morons.


I assumed that was a parody. Are you telling me it isn't?


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Nov 18, 2014)

Marcellina said:


> Looking at the full design of the shirt it just boggles my mind that it even gets as much attention as it did
> 
> 
> 
> This is basically how most female heroes look. Imagine if he wore a shirt of emma frost or power girl or black cat. He'd be hung on a tumblrina noose



That was it?


----------



## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It wasn't an issue or distraction until prudish feminists made it so.


If it wasn't an issue or a distraction _no one_ would say anything about it... 
I'd love to know how many people would actually wear that shirt to a professional work environment where making an impression matters(unless it was a pretty chill place ). Wear it out around town, wear it with your friends....but on a live stream where you're trying to talk to people about this wonderful scientific achievement...just leave it at home, because people will react and what you did is going to be undermined.(or wear it all the time while making it a point in your life that you're as far away from sexist as they come , though people will still freak)

What really upsets me is people not taking his apology seriously though. Wearing a shirt like that doesn't automatically make you sexist, he probably just found it entertaining like the woman who gave it to him probably did...and it's not even that bad. Just typical western female heroes...all lipsticked up in super tight clothing lol. 


Khris said:


> That was it?


then you get into the debate on the portrayal of female heroes >u>


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## Subarashii (Nov 18, 2014)

> This is basically how most female heroes look. Imagine if he wore a shirt of emma frost or power girl or black cat. He'd be hung on a tumblrina noose


I think people would like it because they'd be able to recognize that they are female superheros

The women on his shirt look like female superheros but they're just generic so people just see the exaggerated sexualization of them and not that they are portraying aggressive, independent fem-GTA characters (basically lol)


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

LesExit said:


> Just typical western female heroes...all lipsticked up in super tight clothing lol.



You mean like...this:





Most male heroes are jacked to the point of absurdity, with costumes so tight that it's like they're naked with their costumes painted on.

When I was a kid, I saw the jacked guys in Dragonball Z and took it as inspiration and I've hit the gym 4 times a week since I was 17 because I've always seen being strong as cool.

For some reason, in our society, we don't like the idea of women looking at a theoretically "ideal" body type and striving to look like them. I'm not sure why that is. That's why almost zero men are offended by women enjoying movies like _Magic Mike_.


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Nov 18, 2014)

You know for an overshadowing of this magnitude I would have thought that the shirt would be like really bad.

This was actually very meh or moderate and others find it empowering. 

My point is; some people should get their priorities straightened out.


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## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You mean like...this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly like that. They all look ridiculous 
lol magic mike. Two of my friends wanted to see that cause they love Channing Tatum...and I'm just like...ya don't want to watch a movie just to stare at half naked guys .___. 

The super heroes are absolutely hilarious though XD Don't like the "i'm on steroids" art-syle though. My favorite hero right now is Anna from Frozen sooo....my opinions are weird I guess... >.>


Khris said:


> You know for an overshadowing of this magnitude I would have thought that the shirt would be like really bad.
> 
> This actually very meh or moderate and others find it empowering.
> 
> My point is; some people should get their priorities straightened out.


ya i could honestly be so much worse. It's annoying how people focus so much on peoples clothing honestly.

Though people are finicky. I kid you not at school once this girl wore this shirt covered in pictures of raw meat(I don't know...) and this guys who was a vegetarian freaked out, and then she was forced to change. The shirt was weird though...


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Nov 18, 2014)

My favorite hero is Itachi. Wonder what that says about me.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> My favorite hero is Itachi. Wonder what that says about me.



[YOUTUBE]NAj26rVWK14[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> My favorite hero is Itachi. Wonder what that says about me.



....

...

....


ya even 10 years from now I still don't know how I will feel about Itachi as a character :0


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> [YOUTUBE]NAj26rVWK14[/YOUTUBE]



>Killua avi

Sure 

EDIT: I actually like Illumi too 



LesExit said:


> ....
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Shouldn't have said "hero". Real ninjas aren't heroes.


----------



## LesExit (Nov 18, 2014)

Khris said:


> Shouldn't have said "hero". Real ninjas aren't heroes.


debatable....very debatable...
Wait...unless your idea of a real ninja is....


----------



## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Nov 18, 2014)

LesExit said:


> debatable....very debatable...
> Wait...unless your idea of a real ninja is....



Not sure what you got from that tbh.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2014)

By the way, to people saying he dressed "unprofessionally". Do scientists at ESA even have a dress code? Most likely not, and if they don't, then he was dressed like a professional. 


olaf said:


> of course there would be outrage, not only would people call her unprofesional but shitload of people would argue how shitty of her to take the spotlight from the event with her fashion choice.


Bullshit. Pure bullshit. Do you even believe that? 

And even if some guy complained about the shirt featuring sexualized men, feminazis would immediatly make a histerical assault on his sexist, misogynistic ass and blow the thing out of proportion to the point of absurdity, "WOMEN CAN WEAR WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT WHENEVER THEY WANT". Typical hypocrisy.

//HbS


----------



## Gunners (Nov 18, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> By the way, to people saying he dressed "unprofessionally". Do scientists at ESA even have a dress code? Most likely not, and if they don't, then he was dressed like a professional.
> 
> Bullshit. Pure bullshit. Do you even believe that?
> 
> ...


People like you irritate because you create the need for heavy handed policies. It's no longer sufficient to say, "I trust my employees enough to act with sense." There will always be that one prick who takes it as a licence to dress up like Santa Claus.

He deserves a slap around the back of the head for wearing the shirt. I don't care what policies are in place; he should know well enough to know it is inappropriate. My belief that he was foolish for the shirt, however, does not mean I agree with the resulting fallout. As I said before, it is a case of people, once again, looking for something to be upset about and something to pin their inadequacies on.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> You mean like...this:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




You make a good point about physicality which is why men take steroids, but there is an ideal for women, which is why so many of them get breast implants (which is soooo ironic because it's unlikely you can breastfeed with implants) or butt enhancements or lip injections or botox.

Yes, males have tight spandex that covers their whole body, lotta women characters have very little coverage of their spandex suits as well. The issue is more lack of body diversity than level of physical aptitude.  

Male superheroes are ripped because they do a lot of physical things, scaling buildings, lifting people, etc.  Female superheroes are equally as physical as male superheroes so why don't they look like this?


Good, you work out, you can literally achieve Superman's level of ripped-ness, Spiderman's if you're a leaner framed guy.  It is achievable.


I work out too, you wanna know what I look like?  More like the picture of that crossfit girl than any superhero girl, that's for damn sure.





All in all, we'll never agree.  It's just that simple. C'est la vie.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 18, 2014)

Gunners said:


> People like you irritate because you create the need for heavy handed policies. It's no longer sufficient to say, "I trust my employees enough to act with sense." There will always be that one prick who takes it as a licence to dress up like Santa Claus.
> 
> He deserves a slap around the back of the head for wearing the shirt. I don't care what policies are in place; he should know well enough to know it is inappropriate. My belief that he was foolish for the shirt, however, does not mean I agree with the resulting fallout. As I said before, it is a case of people, once again, looking for something to be upset about and something to pin their inadequacies on.


Mr. Jump to Conclusions. Personally I'd wear a Kunkka (or some other gaming/rock band/metal band) T-shirt with a plain black shirt on it, but that's irrelevant. Or is that inappropriate as well?

He's not wearing a Santa Claus outfit. He's wearing an unusual shirt. That's it. At worst he has a bad taste and his _female _friend is a tactless artist. Nothing more. 

//HbS


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Superheros (and bodybuilders) are more likely designed to be aesthetically and sexually pleasing than functional in an athletic sense. That's why female superheroes don't look like your crossfit athletes and why bodybuilders are often critiqued for not being functionally strong or athletic.

The men you posted aren't that jacked when compared to pro bodybuilders and superheroes. Look at how Crossfit guys compare to bodybuilders:


Now here's the million dollar question, why are _only _feminists ranting and raving about body diversity in comic books and media to begin with? I maintain that you would never hear men complaining about such an issue to begin with. Even MRA guys who whine endlessly have (to my knowledge) never raised such a complaint.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 18, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> Superheros (and bodybuilders) are more likely designed to be aesthetically and sexually pleasing than functional in an athletic sense. That's why female superheroes don't look like your crossfit athletes and why bodybuilders are often critiqued for not being functionally strong or athletic.
> 
> The men you posted aren't that jacked when compared to pro bodybuilders and superheroes. Look at how Crossfit guys compare to bodybuilders:
> 
> ...



That pic has no source, that guy could be anyone 

Do some research bro, I don't have all the answers.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 18, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> That pic has no source, that guy could be anyone



The discord between crossfitters, athletes and bodybuilders is pretty well known. Crossfit is generally high reps (look at the way they do pull-ups  ) with less of a focus on strength and aesthetics. Bodybuilders often call crossfitters weak and small. Bodybuilding is like a science. Taking a bunch of hormones and counting calories meticulously, trying to get your macros for the day. Athletes call bodybuilders roided up gym rats who can often only lift certain weights in certain motions and are actually very weak in real like aside from powerlifts.



Subarashii said:


> Do some research bro, I don't have all the answers.


I wasn't asking you for answers, I was explaining what was wrong with what you were saying.


----------



## soulnova (Nov 18, 2014)

The power is in YOU. You can move on from this stupid issue. Stop posting about this asinine subject and focus on the important stuff... like they just fucking *found organic compounds on the goddamn comet. *

You choose what to talk about. Make a difference... *FOR SCIENCE!!!*


----------



## Atlas (Nov 18, 2014)

soulnova said:


> The power is in YOU. You can move on from this stupid issue. Stop posting about this asinine subject and focus on the important stuff... like they just fucking *found organic compounds on the goddamn comet. *
> 
> You choose what to talk about. Make a difference... *FOR SCIENCE!!!*



Yeah, at this point, that guy earned the right to wear whatever the fuck he wants.


----------



## baconbits (Nov 18, 2014)

This debate is getting silly.  There are folks on one side going too far and saying the guy is sexist.  He's clearly not.  But on the other hand people who want to pretend this is professional dress are ridiculous as well.  Professional dress is something that is acceptable at an interview; no one would wear this to an interview for a professional, career type job.  The shirt is ridiculous.  

He should be ridiculed for his stupid sense of appropriateness; we should leave the SJW comments in the garbage where it belongs.


----------



## Doge (Nov 18, 2014)

SJW's are ruining our country's internet.  You can't go two feet with anything before some scum "feminist" tries to paint you as a cis-gendered (whatever the fuck that means) woman hater.  

These people want nothing more than to prop up their own greed and hatred of everyone but them.  Feminism needs to be eradicated and silenced.  It's THEIR fault women don't CHOOSE to even try and pursue STEM jobs.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Nov 19, 2014)

GrimaH said:


> edit: And let's be clear here: I don't agree with the extent to which these "SJWs" are focusing on every little thing and being so combative. But seriously, if there's anything you guys and the radfems are in unity about, it's the fact that you are determined to spend your internet time making each other out to be the Antichrist. For such apparent emnity you're both so similarly determined to start, sustain and escalate a shitstorm out of anything.



+ rep.

This should be a disclaimer on every thread like this.

The only thing worse than a feminazi are people who try to use pieces of news like this one to generalize and spread hate against every feminist. I'm seeing a bunch of them in this thread (case in point: the post above mine).

That said, the people who are bullying the scientist for the shirt are dicks. But we shouldn't blame them for being feminist, we should blame them for being dicks.

Feminism is not wrong, is not evil, and it's not something that should be fought against. Some feiminsts (like the ones from this news) are idiots, but we should criticize them for being idiots, not for being fenimists.


----------



## chikmagnet7 (Nov 19, 2014)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> The only thing worse than a feminazi are people who try to use pieces of news like this one to generalize and spread hate against every feminist. I'm seeing a bunch of them in this thread (case in point: the post above mine).
> 
> That said, the people who are bullying the scientist for the shirt are dicks. But we shouldn't blame them for being feminist, we should blame them for being dicks.
> 
> Feminism is not wrong, is not evil, and it's not something that should be fought against. Some feiminsts (like the ones from this news) are idiots, but we should criticize them for being idiots, not for being fenimists.



I agree with you that we shouldn't use this to generalize feminists, but at the same time, I think we'd be shortsighted not to realize that there's a particular subset of feminism (or feminists) who are prone to thinking and acting this way. They might be a minority of all feminists, but they're still feminists. And it's not _just_ that they're idiots -- they're idiots who are using their particularly stringent interpretation of feminist ideals and perspectives to justify their thoughts and actions.

So I think we can both be fair and nuanced and say this isn't a problem with all of feminism, but that it seems to be a problem for a particular subset of it (especially on the internet). And I think it's a bit misleading to claim the people upset by the shirt are just "idiots," since that wouldn't really explain why such a massive percentage of them are self-identified feminists. I don't think we can deny that their specific brand of feminism is playing some causal role in their views on this issue.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Nov 19, 2014)

chikmagnet7 said:


> I agree with you that we shouldn't use this to generalize feminists, but at the same time, I think we'd be shortsighted not to realize that there's a particular subset of feminism (or feminists) who are prone to thinking and acting this way. They might be a minority of all feminists, but they're still feminists. And it's not _just_ that they're idiots -- they're idiots who are using their particularly stringent interpretation of feminist ideals and perspectives to justify their thoughts and actions.
> 
> So I think we can both be fair and nuanced and say this isn't a problem with all of feminism, but that it seems to be a problem for a particular subset of it (especially on the internet). And I think it's a bit misleading to claim the people upset by the shirt are just "idiots," since that wouldn't really explain why such a massive percentage of them are self-identified feminists. I don't think we can deny that their specific brand of feminism is playing some causal role in their views on this issue.



You are right. We can't. But we have to be smart and sensible enough to admit we are dealing with a part of the feminists. We have to fight the problem of "radical feminsim". But the problem is the "radical" part of the trem, not the "feminism" part. When someone reads a news likes this one and proceeds to say stuff like "fuck all feminists", like people do in this forum and other places all the time, they are are being unfair, and worse, they are just helping fuel a war between "feminists" and "anti-feminists" which not only doesn't solve anything, but is also one of the main causes of misoginy itself.


----------



## sadated_peon (Nov 19, 2014)

I really see parallels of this situation tumblr feminists to conservative Christians. 

I see their outrage at the shirt the same as the christian outrage at homosexuals. 

That their personally dislike for something, now makes it wrong. That wrong then becomes an offense against them. 

That shirt insults women the same way that gay marriage insults the sanctity marriage.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 19, 2014)

I wrote this yesterday:


MartyMcFly1 said:


> I've never seen many mainstream feminists police their own. Sarkeesian's comment about men being mass shooters is just one example. The popular, famous feminists, the Jessica Valenti's, the Anita Sarkeesians, the Feminista Jones', the Lindy West's, the ones that get to appear on TV seem to be the craziest, most manhating ones.
> 
> The only feminists that I've seen call other feminists out for these things are more often than not completely ostracized, and in the case of Erin Pizzey, sent death threats and had her dog killed.
> 
> I think people would be less hostile to feminists if they did a better job at policing their own.


Feminism doesn't exist in some bubble divorced from the real world policies they implement and the things they choose to take issue with. It has turned into a movement of upper middle class white princesses enforcing political correctness.

Most of the things I say about modern feminism I learned from women, and all those women are completely ostracized from the movement and hated on so much that the movement has lost all credibility in my eyes. The excuse "_*But the movement did so much good in the past!*_" doesn't work anymore. Plenty of movements that did good in the past turned into terrible things that people distanced themselves from.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Nov 19, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> I wrote this yesterday:
> 
> Feminism doesn't exist in some bubble divorced from the real world policies they implement and the things they choose to take issue with. It has turned into a movement of upper middle class white princesses enforcing political correctness.
> 
> Most of the things I say about modern feminism I learned from women, and all those women are completely ostracized from the movement and hated on so much that the movement has lost all credibility in my eyes. The excuse "_*But the movement did so much good in the past!*_" doesn't work anymore. Plenty of movements that did good in the past turned into terrible things that people distanced themselves from.



You may have a good point.

But we cannot forget that sexism still exists, it has never stopped existing, and it will keep existing if the feminists go away. Worse, the feminists are the ones who are fighting against it.

Antagonizing feminism as a whole is not a solution. The solution is focusing on the radical ones, the ones who don't get gender equality at all and think this is a war of men x women. They are wrong, and they should be the ones criticized. Not feminism itself.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> You may have a good point.
> 
> But we cannot forget that sexism still exists, it has never stopped existing, and it will keep existing if the feminists go away. Worse, the feminists are the ones who are fighting against it.
> 
> Antagonizing feminism as a whole is not a solution. The solution is focusing on the radical ones, the ones who don't get gender equality at all and think this is a war of men x women. They are wrong, and they should be the ones criticized. Not feminism itself.


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> You may have a good point.
> 
> But we cannot forget that sexism still exists, it has never stopped existing, and it will keep existing if the feminists go away. Worse, the feminists are the ones who are fighting against it.
> 
> Antagonizing feminism as a whole is not a solution. The solution is focusing on the radical ones, the ones who don't get gender equality at all and think this is a war of men x women. They are wrong, and they should be the ones criticized. Not feminism itself.



That's a false narrative because all women aren't feminists. Currently, most women aren't feminists. Feminists who can't argue their points try to paint people who criticize them as being anti-women because they can't stand on their own two feet.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> That's a false narrative because all women aren't feminists. Currently, most women aren't feminists. Feminists who can't argue their points try to paint people who criticize them as being anti-women because they can't stand on their own two feet.



These are some sweeping generalizations.  What's your source?


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Nov 19, 2014)

MartyMcFly1 said:


> That's a false narrative because all women aren't feminists. Currently, most women aren't feminists. Feminists who can't argue their points try to paint people who criticize them as being anti-women because they can't stand on their own two feet.



I'm not saying all women are feminists. I know only some of them are, and I'm defending the ones among those who are sensible and can argue their points.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2014)

Dragon D. Luffy said:


> But we cannot forget that sexism still exists, it has never stopped existing, and it will keep existing if the feminists go away. Worse, the feminists are the ones who are fighting against it.


It doesn't work like that anymore. 40 years ago, maybe, but not anymore. There's no real suppression of women on a massive scale (in the Western part of the world, in first-world countries, of course). In fact, very often women have it much easier or much better than men. I suggest you look up Norah Vincent - she disguised herself as a man for 18 months. The experience threw her into a serious depression, and now she's saying she's glad she's a woman and would never change. She wrote a book about it, "Self-Made Man".

The problem with feminism is that it has been warped by the many, many extremists. Warped badly. It's no longer about gender equality. It's about oppressing men and giving women unlimited rights and privilages.

//HbS


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> It doesn't work like that anymore. 40 years ago, maybe, but not anymore. *There's no real suppression of women on a massive scale*. In fact, very often women have it much easier or much better than men. I suggest you look up Norah Vincent - she disguised herself as a man for 18 months. The experience threw her into a serious depression, and now she's saying she's glad she's a woman and would never change. She wrote a book about it, "Self-Made Man".
> 
> The problem with feminism is that it has been warped by the many, many extremists. Warped badly. It's no longer about gender equality. It's about oppressing men and giving women unlimited rights and privilages.
> 
> //HbS



Look outside Western nations
Someone JUST posted an article about Indonesian female police officers.  Isn't checking for virginity an invasive form of hostile sexism? 
Or the women who "honor killed" for being raped or having sex outside of marriage?

Western feminism is getting nit picky and hyper sensitive, but there are real causes that demand more attention than some guy's shirt.


----------



## Eylandos (Nov 19, 2014)

Women hate nothing more than a man who shows weakness and crying is the biggest form of weakness a man can show. No matter how many women want their husband/lover/boyfriend/ to show more emotion, they get turned off by it because they want their man to be a rock. Someone can hold things down and doesn't lose his composure when things get ugly.

He will be even more hated and despised now, then he was before. If he had any balls, he would have stuck by his ideals and said the mission is more important than the shirt and even so, he can wear whatever the fuck he wants to wear. That if the women don't like what he wear, they can either stop watching any news that has to do with him or suck it up and accept it.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

Eylandos said:


> Women hate nothing more than a man who shows weakness and crying is the biggest form of weakness a man can show. No matter how many women want their husband/lover/boyfriend/ to show more emotion, they get turned off by it because they want their man to be a rock. Someone can hold things down and doesn't lose his composure when things get ugly.
> 
> He will be even more hated and despised now, then he was before. If he had any balls, he would have stuck by his ideals and said the mission is more important than the shirt and even so, he can wear whatever the fuck he wants to wear. That if the women don't like what he wear, they can either stop watching any news that has to do with him or suck it up and accept it.




You're trollin', right?

Yes, yes you are


----------



## Eylandos (Nov 19, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> You're trollin', right?
> 
> Yes, yes you are



If that is the brunt of your response, then don't bother responding to this post.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Look outside Western nations
> Someone JUST posted an article about Indonesian female police officers.  Isn't checking for virginity an invasive form of hostile sexism?
> Or the women who "honor killed" for being raped or having sex outside of marriage?
> 
> Western feminism is getting nit picky and hyper sensitive, but there are real causes that demand more attention than some guy's shirt.


I agree completly, those are big issues, but in this thread we're specificly talking about the situation in Western countries and Western feminists.

My bad, I shouldn't have been that vague in my post. Editing it to be more specific.

//HbS


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

Hunted by sister said:


> I agree completly, those are big issues, but in this thread we're specificly talking about the situation in Western countries and Western feminists.
> 
> My bad, I shouldn't have been that vague in my post. Editing it to be more specific.
> 
> //HbS



All right, I'll give you that 

Something is always going to offend/upset/rustle the jimmies of some group.

I think new feminists, who have no ties or connections to first wave feminists, are hypersensitive to hypersexualization of women in pop culture because first wave feminists fought so hard for women to be treated as equals, not just as baby making servants.
Google "sexist vintage ads" or talk to your grand parents or parents


And I think when modern "feminists" see something that is hypersexualized or something someone deems "sexist" they're  thinking that first wave feminists' work is for naught and we're slipping backwards while completely missing the issues that DO need attention, like equality,  abortion or contraception laws, and feminism outside Western nations.

Little things like this guy's shirt get so over blown and you get people making death and rape threats against people crucifying this man for being a misogynist... it just brings out the worst people and THEY get all the attention.


----------



## HaxHax (Nov 19, 2014)

Women were never treated as baby making servants. That's just revisionism. Based on a satirical ad.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

Sorry I meant "bang maid" lol
[sp][/sp]

Consult the bible, aka the moral code of western nations if you have qualms with what I said.


> 1 Peter 3:1-6 Likewise, you wives, be in subjection to your own husbands


And so on and so forth.
I actually heard a woman speak this at her wedding and it was weird to me.


----------



## HaxHax (Nov 19, 2014)

"Be considerate as you live with your wife, with respect" (I Peter 3:7)

"The husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife." (I Corinthians 7:3-5)

"Be thankful for your wife and realize the favor you have received from God." (Proverbs 18:22)

"Be one flesh with your wife in every way." (Matthew 19:5)

?


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> These are some sweeping generalizations.  What's your source?



This is common knowledge. They cite the study in this article: 

Like I said before, there was not enough policing of their own. Too much using untrustworthy statistics, and reasonable women like Christina Hoff Sommers and Erin Pizzey shouldn't be so vehemently hated and ostracized.


----------



## Dragon D. Luffy (Nov 19, 2014)

Eylandos said:


> Women hate nothing more than a man who shows weakness and crying is the biggest form of weakness a man can show. No matter how many women want their husband/lover/boyfriend/ to show more emotion, they get turned off by it because they want their man to be a rock. Someone can hold things down and doesn't lose his composure when things get ugly.
> 
> He will be even more hated and despised now, then he was before. If he had any balls, he would have stuck by his ideals and said the mission is more important than the shirt and even so, he can wear whatever the fuck he wants to wear. That if the women don't like what he wear, they can either stop watching any news that has to do with him or suck it up and accept it.



This stuff you said only proves that yes, sexism still exists in the west.

Why are only women allowed to show emotions in public? Why not men? Why are women allowed to be weak, while men have a moral obligation to look stronger than women?

Why are "balls" associated with sticking to one's ideals and showing no weakness, while the ones who are too weak are "pussies"?

Sexism.

The mistake some of you are making is think feminism is only about the stuff that affects women badly. But sexism is bad for all of us. This idea that men have to be stronger than women is what is wrong. It's screwing up with women (because it denies them the right to surpass men), and it's screwing up with men (because it denies us the right to have emotions and rely on others). It keeps society from getting into the 21th century.


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

He's not the first person to be called out for what they're wearing, but it usually happens to women.  Where are you guys when that happens?


Published in "Frontiers of Psychology"? Maybe if it's in APA or JAMA I'll give it more credence


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Did you miss the part where I said the cite the study in the article? It was the International Journal of Sociology of the Family that did the study. Even shrieking feminist echo chambers like Huffington Post are reporting on this. Here's an Omnibus poll from YouGov: 

Also, police your own. Who do you think is more likely to be calling Premier Keneally out on wearing the same dress twice? Men or women? Obviously this is a women's issue...and maybe gay men.

Also, Premier Keneally didn't send a spacecraft to a comet and have her outfit outshine their amazing achievement.

“When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger.” - Confucius


----------



## Subarashii (Nov 19, 2014)

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, Marty.  You think women, who are pro-equality, are going to identify with "feminists" who are basically the equivalent of the Tea Party to equal rights supporters?


----------



## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 19, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> The squeaky wheel gets the grease, Marty.  You think women, who are pro-equality, are going to identify with "feminists" who are basically the equivalent of the Tea Party to equal rights supporters?



By all metrics, Christina Hoff Sommers has a much smaller following than hacks like Anita Sarkeesian and Jessica "I Bathe In Male Tears" Valenti and gets much less press and coverage. 

Even if most women don't identify as feminists, the most radical, manhating ones have managed to find themselves a massive bullhorn to scream their vitriol at the masses from the mountain tops.

If it wasn't about mahating, the the feminists who attempted to police their own wouldn't have gotten such hatred and vitriol, even from feminists who are respected by the movement. Even the 2nd wave was pretty insane. An Andrea Dworking should have never gotten the fame and respect that she did.


----------



## Hunted by sister (Nov 19, 2014)

Please don't bring the Bible and religion into this. There are too many contradictory statements there.


Subarashii said:


> He's not the first person to be called out for what they're wearing, but it usually happens to women.  Where are you guys when that happens?
> 
> 
> Published in "Frontiers of Psychology"? Maybe if it's in APA or JAMA I'll give it more credence


Please. Don't compare a stupid tabloid factoid to dragging a man through mud mxied with shit. Taylor has been called and named many different things, all of them very negative, he's gotten a reputation as a sexist pig (among stupid people), he was forced to make an apology, probably was thrown into depression. On the other hand, you linked an article where someone noticed that someone has the common sense to use clothes more than once. 

If you think this even belong to the same category, you're mental.

//HbS


----------



## Eylandos (Nov 20, 2014)

Ugh this section is a mess.


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## soulnova (Nov 20, 2014)

Can someone please, please, please lock this thread?


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## brolmes (Nov 21, 2014)

when is megaharrison going to ban feminism

this insanity has to stop


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 21, 2014)

Sorry dude, I was left without internet for 4 days straight, I really liked our discussion, it was going somewhere, can we pick up ?



olaf said:


> there is my take on the sexism of the shirt couple posts above. again, I don't completely agree with it but I see the rationality of some arguments it uses.



I'll check it .



> if a white scientist wore that to an official interview or to a conference I attended I'd be  really uncomfortable because of it. I'm not saying that it's always super racist, but it's a slightly touchy subject.



And don't you think that's racism ? A black man using that shirt, sure he'd be "using that because it's a joke shirt", now change the scenario  to a white man and we'd jump gun and think " he must be a racist" ? I know it's a touchy subject, but I come from some principles I have thought to myself, two of them are important: 1 - there's no subject that can't be debated(Sexuality, religion, science, politics, history, anything) and 2 - jokes are a form of art and most likely of criticism(Try remember one joke that isn't criticizing something can you ?) so censoring jokes on a touchy subject won't led us to anywhere, that subject has to be debated, and what better way to start debating it than with a joke ? I have, countless times, defended some brazilian comedians that are right wing because they made jokes, and people went crazy over that and tried to censor them .



> too bad that when there is sexualisation in media or fashion it usualy boils down to reducing someone to their sex organs.



I disagree . I've seen many articles that introduced their object of sexualization starting with " She/he is an awesome actress/actor, and does x, y, z, t and is also a hot woman/man " . I've hardly saw anything that just said " This woman is just simply hot . She's otherwise useless if not sucking my cock " . And, may I say the word, going through my memory, the sexualisation happens a LOT with men in feminine magazines too, A FUCKING LOT . Doesn't matter either way because this is not what we are discussing .



> Mostly because it's hard to fully embrace human sexuality with something like a shirt. Images like that are shorthand so it's better when you don't risk being misunderstood. and wearing this shirt when shitload of people who don't know you will be watching is like asking for being misunderstood.



I can understand the point ... Like don't argue in twitter because you have a little space and you are probably going to condesate way too much info on what you are trying to say and might be easily misunderstood . This is a very good point, don't have a counter to it ...




> But hey, when you're representing yourself you can risk being misunderstood as much as you want, but when you represent a company or multi national agency you avoid controversy because usualy it is not good for buisness



Well, if the company wanted to avoid that, why didn't use a dress code or something less like a dress code but saying " No shirts with images " or something like that ?


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Nov 21, 2014)




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## hcheng02 (Nov 21, 2014)

Another feminist slams SJW for their "trivial bullshit" on this topic.



> Hirsi Ali slams feminism's 'trivial BS'
> By Ashe Schow | November 20, 2014 | 10:30 am
> *
> Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a harsh critic of Islam?s treatment of women, said Wednesday that modern American feminism is focused on ?trivial bullshit? and needs to be reclaimed.
> ...


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## MartyMcFly1 (Nov 21, 2014)

I posted this in the "My Two Cents on Feminism" thread. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a woman with great courage. When you think of feminism this is who you should think of, not these upper middle class women policing political correctness or hostile manhating hoodrats.


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## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

This is why is faith in humanity is in negative value.


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## imrunningoutacoconutoil (Nov 21, 2014)

hcheng02 said:


> Another feminist slams SJW for their "trivial bullshit" on this topic.


YUP. 
Sometimes I wonder why those women claim they lack of rights and respect. Like the bullshit vid about a NYC girl receiving "harassment".


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 21, 2014)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is my new feminist hero .


I want to give her a prize so bad .


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## Subarashii (Nov 21, 2014)

> Speaking at the Independent Women’s Forum Women of Valor dinner, where she received an award for courage, Hirsi Ali reminded her audience of how far feminism has strayed from its original purpose.
> 
> “I want you to remember that once upon a time, feminists fought for the access — basic right — access of girls to education,” she said.



I mean, she's right though


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 21, 2014)

It truly is amazing how people who wanted sexual liberation, wanted to wear what they wanted without being judged are nitpicking on a shirt .


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## Subarashii (Nov 21, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> It truly is amazing how people who wanted sexual libertation, wanted to wear what they wanted without being judged are nitpicking on a shirt .




*Spoiler*: __ 



They do, but they still are.
Just open any magazine
Or read rants about Miley Cyrus/Nicki Minaj/Kim Kardashian/Bjork's clothes
Or Google "Michelle Obama" and the links on the first page are about her clothes.  


Yes, people are irrationally angry at Matt Taylor for no other reason than his shirt, WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE!!
People are also irrationally angry at Miley Cyrus
Or Kim Kardashian for showing off her butt
Or Nicki Minaj for doing that same thing


People are always going to find things to nitpick and bitch about.
When everything is plastered all over the internet for everyone's daily consumption it's hard to keep the crazies out of the news.
"Instead of attacking the root cause of women?s inequality, we?ve moved towards the vilification of individuals."


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 21, 2014)

Gino said:


> This is why is faith in humanity is in negative value.



Both of you are really stupid. That feminism march is making the point that just because a woman is dressed provocatively doesnt mean its okay for her to be raped. Read the signs genuineness from heaven. It's not talking about wanting to wear whatever they want without criticism.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> Both of you are really stupid. That feminism march is making the point that just because a woman is dressed provocatively doesnt mean its okay for her to be raped. Read the signs genuineness from heaven. It's not talking about wanting to wear whatever they want without criticism.



While what you said is true, that one specifically is meant to be against the argument of " She was wearing almost nothing, so she can't complain when she's raped ", there are countless other ones that are more or less like " Don't judge me by what I wear ", don't get me wrong, I also relate to the don't judge a person by what that person is wearing cause, but the thing is that feminists are doing exactly that: judging a guy by what he's wearing .

They are doing what they are fighting against . It is becoming increasingly difficult to defend feminists, actually, a few months, or maybe a full year, ago I called myself a feminist . But then everything changed when I saw that they were doing this kinda of shit(Nitpicking on clothes, complaining about ads with hot women, and some more radical just hating men in general because all men are opressors) . I stopped calling myself feminist when I was called a rapist and a rapist supporter by a girl who was feminist because I disagree with her over semantics .

If he was wearing a shirt written " Women are trash and are just useful to suck cocks and serve men " then the reaction to his shirt would be justified, but that shirt ? They are judging a book by it's cover .


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## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> Both of you are really stupid. That feminism march is making the point that just because a woman is dressed provocatively doesnt mean its okay for her to be raped. Read the signs genuineness from heaven. It's not talking about wanting to wear whatever they want without criticism.



Hey asswipe I know that so thanks for wasting both our time. Also I still stand by what I said nothing's changed.


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## Fenrir (Nov 21, 2014)

Goddamn feminists


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 21, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> While what you said is true, that one specifically is meant to be against the argument of " She was wearing almost nothing, so she can't complain when she's raped ", there are countless other ones that are more or less like " Don't judge me by what I wear ", don't get me wrong, I also relate to the don't judge a person by what that person is wearing cause, but the thing is that feminists are doing exactly that: judging a guy by what he's wearing .
> 
> They are doing what they are fighting against . It is becoming increasingly difficult to defend feminists, actually, a few months, or maybe a full year, ago I called myself a feminist . But then everything changed when I saw that they were doing this kinda of shit(Nitpicking on clothes, complaining about ads with hot women, and some more radical just hating men in general because all men are opressors) . I stopped calling myself feminist when I was called a rapist and a rapist supporter by a girl who was feminist because I disagree with her over semantics .
> 
> If he was wearing a shirt written " Women are trash and are just useful to suck cocks and serve men " then the reaction to his shirt would be justified, but that shirt ? They are judging a book by it's cover .




Yeah, like 3 feminists. I hardly see how that's a big deal. It's not like the movement as a whole is trying to crucify him. It's legit like 3 people and they're not even moderates. I dont see anyone creating a march for his shirt. The whole thing is way overblown and that includes the anti-feminism side as well.


Gino said:


> Hey asswipe I know that so thanks for wasting both our time. Also I still stand by what I said nothing's changed.




So you're an idiot? Okay.


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## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> So you're an idiot? Okay.



How about you fuck off since simple comprehension fails you.


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## Deleted member 222538 (Nov 21, 2014)

^That's why you're mad right now? HAHAHAHAHa.  ha

My reading comprehension is fine.


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## Gino (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm straight the fuck you on?


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Nov 21, 2014)

Normality said:


> Both of you are really stupid. That feminism march is making the point that just because a woman is dressed provocatively doesnt mean its okay for her to be raped. Read the signs genuineness from heaven. It's not talking about wanting to wear whatever they want without criticism.



These women think they can go on naked and nothing bad will happen to them. They don't realize that there are bad people in the world who don't really care about the laws out there and could hurt them.


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## Subarashii (Nov 21, 2014)

> I stopped calling myself feminist when I was called a rapist and a rapist supporter by a girl who was feminist because I disagree with her over semantics .


Well that's no good 

She should stop calling herself a feminist, not you!


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 21, 2014)

Subarashii said:


> Well that's no good
> 
> She should stop calling herself a feminist, not you!



Dude, sincerely, it's way more in deep than that girl alone, I'd be a fool to do that after only that .

She was just that last drop of water that makes the cup spill . I was seeing another side of the feminists, I was seeing so many people acting a lot like her, and lots, believe me when I say lots, of misandric feminist girls . There was even a Whore Walk(Or something like that, I don't remember the term in english, it's either Whore Walk or Slut Walk, I'm not sure) that a male friend of mine was kicked out of(Not to say that he almost got beaten up) because he was male and, in lots of their words they "didn't need the opressor's simpathy " .

And I got tired of it . I didn't give up the ideals of feminism that I embraced, I only stopped calling me that, because I saw that the stereotype wasn't only a stupid stereotype, but it was in many times the real deal . I'm not saying each and every feminist are okay with what happened to me and lots of stories I could tell them .



Normality said:


> Yeah, like 3 feminists. I hardly see how that's a big deal. It's not like the movement as a whole is trying to crucify him. It's legit like 3 people and they're not even moderates. I dont see anyone creating a march for his shirt. The whole thing is way overblown and that includes the anti-feminism side as well.
> 
> 
> 
> So you're an idiot? Okay.



I'm not going to comment on how much people are raging with the shirt thing because I don't have the means to see if there's a massive flood of feminists raging or not because I don't access
enough american media coverage to know for sure, nor american twitter nor american facebook to look if there is or there is not, but it looked from the articles like many of them were .

And I do agree that the anti-feminism in some medias is really showing it's face .


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## Banhammer (Nov 21, 2014)

Honestly I think he should apologize to the nudist community for giving interviews in any form of dress at all. Check your privilege shitlooms.


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## Hunted by sister (Nov 21, 2014)

Guys, don't pay attention to Normality. That person can't even read properly, zero reading comprehension, she's so detached from the world and lives in her own, located up her ass.


Subarashii said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1. Feminists didn't jump at Miley/Kim/Nicki. The reaction wasn't even a tenth of what happened to Taylor. And most of it were common Internet people just having a laugh over something ridicoulus (like Miley).
2. Saying "she's wearing a bad dress" isn't quite the same as unleashing a tidal wave of hatred toward a man who just made a hystorical event happen. A tidal wave of hatred and mysoginistic accusations, permanently damaging his reputation. 

//HbS


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