# Tsunade vs. Itachi, Minato, Onoki



## Jad (Apr 29, 2014)

Just _curious_......

_Tsunade starts out standing on Katsuya (normal sized; the usual giant one she summons), Byakugo activated._

*Distance:* 20 metres~
*Knowledge:* Full knowledge...
*Location:* Madara vs. Sasuke and Naruto...
*Mindset:* IC but to kill...
*Restrictions:* 

Minato only has as many Kunai's as he did against A+B.
Minato hasn't prepped any seals other then on his Kunais at match start.
Minato doesn't have access to Kyuubi Chakra.
 Minato's suicide technique
Itachi doesn't own Koto.

Scn.1 vs. Itachi (before death)  |  Scn.2 vs. Minato | Scn.3 vs. Onoki


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## Trojan (Apr 29, 2014)

Tsunade solos. 
are you serious comparing those fodders to her? 

just joking, Minato and Onoki defeats her, and its 50/50 with itachi. *_*


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## Rocky (Apr 29, 2014)

No need to go in to detail. They're all superior to her.

Well, Onoki isn't as much so, but Jinton gets rid of both her and Godslug.


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## ARGUS (Apr 29, 2014)

Scenario 1: Itachi wins this comfortably

-The starting distance of 20m favours itachi alot more than it does Tsunade since the former can put the latter in a genjutsu,,, moreover this starting distance also allows Itachi to fire Amaterasu right  on tsunade which will render her byakugou useless due to the attacks continous burning effect,,,,,

Scenario 2: Minato beats her comfortably, 

-the starting distance of 20m  alone allows Minato to blitz her right at the beginning,, on top of that, tsunade is a CQC fighter and her fighting style is heavily based around taijutsu,,, which is rather suicide against Minato since Minato can simply mark her during the onslaught,, and will be able to evade all of her attacks through FTG,,,, Minato proceeds to slit Tsunades throat thus immobilising her,,,

Scenario 3: Onoki wins this high diiff,, 

-Once onoki manages to fly up,, Tsunade is a goner since he can jus fire a jinton with an AOE that some one of Tsunades speed would be unable to evade,,,, 

However if  Tsunade would fight these 3 in the manga then i think it'll be

*Spoiler*: __ 



Katsuyu solos,,, she would murk these 3 neg diff,,,,,


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## trance (Apr 29, 2014)

Minato (even in base) and Itachi operate so far above Tsunade's level, it's not even funny. Onoki can also beat her without much difficulty due to Jinton and flight.

I think Jad is getting a little annoyed at the Tsunade wankers fans.


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## Larcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Minato bam flashes.
Onoki flies Tsunade dies.
Itachi solos.


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## ShinobisWill (Apr 29, 2014)

Tsunade stalls for a few minutes before losing each fight. 

Or maybe Katsuyu solo's them all.  You know with her completely unavoidable acid spray and all.


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## Bonly (Apr 29, 2014)

Saw the thread title and thought "Welp these three beat her so how is Jad gonna Gimp them to make it fair" then saw that there was few restrictions made. So I think it's quite obiouvs to everyone who wins here. And it is none other then Our Queen, The Great Katsuyu-Sama, the Queen of solo will live up to her name and solo these fodder level bitches


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## Kyu (Apr 29, 2014)

Katsuyu is normal sized. She ain't soloing shit ITT.



> Scn.1 vs. Itachi (before death)



Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu GG. 

Susano'o isn't necessary. 



> Scn.2 vs. Minato



Minato cuts her head off and calls it a day.

Minato has reacted to characters who are even faster than himself; Tsunade isn't touching him in a straight up confrontation. Ever.

A Rasengan headshot should suffice as well. 



> Scn.3 vs. Onoki



Distance favors Onoki heavily. Flight+Jinton gives him the win eventually.


Overall base Minato & Itachi are superior to Tsunade. Onoki is just a bad matchup for her.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 29, 2014)

From this distance Itachi and Minato can kill her at start battle with kunai throw/warping (Thrown at Judara's feet before Kakashi and Gaara could do anything) and Amaterasu.

As for Onoki, he cannot beat Byakugo Tsunade. Once she summons 5% Katsuya he stands no chance at killing her, and he cannot kill her from this distance, she interrupts his Jinton laser with a blitz or Katsuya spits acid in his face while he's charging it. He's forced to fly up, but that also won't help him as you cannot fly out of the range of 5% Katsuya, especially if you're trying to kill her with Jinton which has a limited range.


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## Jad (Apr 29, 2014)

When I say normal sized Katsuya, I mean her Giant one she usually summons. That's why I have her standing on top of it  Just encase anyone misinterpreted that.


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## Garcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Itachi solos her zero difficulty, about Minato - I'm not sure if he stands a chance


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## Alex Payne (Apr 29, 2014)

Full knowledge Itachi might use Susano very early. He knows that he can't prolong the fight and he also knows Tsunade's abilities are centered around regen and healing. So wasting time with less effective attack is a bad idea. Totsuka comes out and... you already know the rest.

Minato can deal with Katsuyu via Bunta and/or teleporting her to a different place on the battlefield. Minato vs Tsunade one-on-one is a no-brainer. Initial blitz is going to leave Tsunade marked. After that it is only a matter of time. Tsunade might push Minato's chakra reserves though. Assuming his long-name attack is about speed and not much better in terms of damage than Rasengan(unlikely but possible).

Onoki can change Katsuyu's weight making her unable to move. Or he can simply Jinton sweep the battlefield after flying away.


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## Ersa (Apr 29, 2014)

All three are superior to her, although I'd say Onoki is generally the same tier as her but excels because Jinton counters her hard. Itachi and Minato win very handily, Amaterasu negates Tsunade's regeneration and she lacks the speed to avoid it, she really lacks the speed to get a good hit on someone as nimble and clever as Minato and will eat one too many senjutsu Rasengans to the head.


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## Mercurial (Apr 29, 2014)

Tsunade tanks everything they dish at her and then she eventually hit them, ending their lives. Also Katsuyu can split herself and launch attacks with her acid. 

GG


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## Kyu (Apr 29, 2014)

You forgot punch to the ground, GG.


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## FlamingRain (Apr 29, 2014)

In scenario one I'd imagine she likely goes down to Itachi not too dissimilar to how Orochimaru did (except that he'd need to hit her body with _Amaterasu_ because she might break _Totsuka_ before it begins to seal her), but drawing her out of Katsuyu's body is going to _kill_ his eyes between her pulling Jūbi's with Ammy and simply dividing her as opposed to piercing her.

Scenario 2 might favor actually Tsunade ever so slightly if Gamabunta can't use Gamakichi's _Mizuame Teppō_ or it isn't adhesive enough to prevent her from splitting or spraying acid, because if he can't that's a whole lot of slugs to teleport (a multiplicity of times more than Minato has Kunai) and they might just swarm the tags and surround/melt them down them with acid pools or absorb them into their bodies. Actually just imagine Tsunade slamming her heel into the ground and those Kunai go flying for miles in all sorts of useless and sporadic directions. Even if none of that happens, though the Fifth Hokage needs to be straight up soul ripped in order to die against the Fourth, who lacks the attack severity to seriously threaten her outside of the very Jutsu that sacrifices his own life.

In scenario 3, Ohnoki will most likely have the easiest time managing to actually kill her via turning into a spinning top of death.


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## Jad (Apr 29, 2014)

I'm going to restrict Minato's Shiki (suicide technique).


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## Mercurial (Apr 29, 2014)

Jad said:


> I'm going to restrict Minato's Shiki (suicide technique).



You fool, don't do it. Minato stands no chance to even reach a draw then. 





Kyu said:


> You forgot punch to the ground, GG.



Yes, but I thought that it would have been obvious from the start.

Itachi is not faster than Tsunade and the Sharingan means nothing, even if he was faster and Sharingan precognition actually meant something, it wouldn't be enough to put a kunai in her head or genjutsu her. Even five Madara Mokuton Bunshin couldn't. Madara actually couldn't manage to kill her, infact why Itachi should, if Madara couldn't? She would clearly heal from Tsukuyomi; she canonically healed Sasuke and Kakashi from the after effects, we all know that if a medician can heal people from a gunshot wound, he is logically able to heal himself the second he is shot.

Minato's speed is so overrated. I mean, he could dodge, tag and troll the full speed Raikage like it was nothing, but it's not like he could easily do the same with Tsunade. You think that she is slower and even more linear and predictable than Ei? And that even Kabuto showed more skilled taijutsu moves than her smashy-smashy? Lol. And people who would think that Minato can easily tag her with Hiraishin, then teleport and cut her head off of Rasengan-smash it before she can react... these fools. 

I won't even cover Onoki. Poor old man, Tsunade would jump with her enhanced leg strength and blitz him even in the air, then punch his head off.

OP, you should have put here Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Hashirama, Gai, Kakashi, Obito, Nagato and Tobirama. All together they may, or may not, have a chance to overcome her regen.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 29, 2014)

50/50 chance of Tsunade beating Minato, she loses to Itachi, and she probably beats Onoki, but with a lot of difficulty.​​


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## Larcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> 50/50 chance of Tsunade beating Minato, she loses to Itachi, and she probably beats Onoki, but with a lot of difficulty.​​



Minato stomps Tsunade. She can't anticipate any of his attacks and will get quickly overwhelmed before she can even think of summoning Katsuya. Her attack speed is also incredibly slow as shown in her interval Kabuto and Orochimaru at Tsunade search arc. Katsuya is inferior to Gamabunta, but that's unnecessary Minato being fully capabable of soloing Katsuya; ST Barrier against her own acid should GG.


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## Sir Cool Blizzard (Apr 29, 2014)

Lel......all three of them win against her mid to high diff......Itachi Amaterasues her ass, Onoki flies and jintons her up......minato dances and delivers those Odama rasengans from all angles or Rasengans her head!!


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 29, 2014)

Larcher said:


> Minato stomps Tsunade.



No, no he doesn't. 



> She can't anticipate any of his attacks and will get quickly overwhelmed before she can even think of summoning Katsuya.



Overwhelmed with what? A rasengan and some kunai stabs? Base Minato lacks the firepower to inflict any significant damage to someone as resilient as Tsunade. The only way he's going to do that is by cutting her head off, which he's not going to do until he realises he can't kill her by any other means.



> Her attack speed is also incredibly slow as shown in her interval Kabuto and Orochimaru at Tsunade search arc.



This is so, so very wrong. For a start, that was Part I, when she was rusty and obviously slower than she is in Part II. Secondly, even in Part I she was not _incredibly slow_. She was able to dodge and react to all of Kabuto's attacks before she got crippled. Kabuto has a 3.5 in speed at that point, and he took a soldier pill to enhance that speed further. I have no idea where you drew the conclusion that she was slow from that. 



> Katsuya is inferior to Gamabunta





No . . so much no. Gamabunta could not kill Katsuyu under any circumstance ever, while Katsuyu is significantly larger than him, and her divisions can easily latch to him and slowly melt him with acid. 



> , but that's unnecessary Minato being fully capabable of soloing Katsuya; ST Barrier against her own acid should GG.



Katsuyu can melt herself into a pool of body fluids to escape pretty much any form of damage.​​


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## LostSelf (Apr 29, 2014)

Tsunade: You guys might have overpowered jutsus. But what you don't have *Pulls Katsuyu card* is the invincible Exodia!

Minato/Itachi/Oonoki: Exodia! Impossible!

Tsunade: Exodia...Oblirerate!

Minato/Itachi/Oonoki: Noooooooo!!! I hope you go down Narutoforums!!


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## Larcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> > No, no he doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rocky (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> The only way he's going to do that is by cutting her head off, which he's not going to do until he realises he can't kill her by any other means.



Wait...why? Unless he has some Fūinjutsu that we don't know about (in which case he would use that), he's going to aim straight for the neck. He has full knowledge, so there's so reason for him to waste him time with body shots that she can recover from. It'll be all Kunai strikes to the neck and Rasengans to the head area.

Alternatively, he can use Gama Rinshō, and simply run away until it's prepared.
She's not going to hit him unless he goes on the offensive. 



> No . . so much no. Gamabunta could not kill Katsuyu under any circumstance ever, while Katsuyu is significantly larger than him, and her divisions can easily latch to him and slowly melt him with acid.



Actually I believe he could eat it. 

It's supposed to go Snake < Slug < Toad < Snake, so I wouldn't necessarily be so sure that Godslug is the superior summon (even though that it's the best by feats, I'll give you that).


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## Larcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Rocky has spoken.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 29, 2014)

Ameterasu hard counters her as does totsuga.

Jinton bypasses regen.

Minato probably wins with a sealing jutsu we haven't seen and is therefore ineligible in the BD but I think that's how he wins anyway.

Give Tsunade 100% Katsuya so she can show these mortals their place on the pecking order.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 29, 2014)

Larcher said:


> His sheer speed obviously. I'm pretty sure Rasenghans are enough to hurt Tsunade she has Byakougo but she'll eventually exhaust herself using it.



His rasengans won't do shit to a woman that was casually running around punching Susano'o clones with two giant swords bisecting her torso. She withstood a Yasaka Magatama at point blank range and sustained no visible damage afterwards, save a few bruises. She even survived being teleported inside a Lightning bolt, receiving only some cuts and scratches afterwards.

So no, her regeneration will recover her from the little damage Minato manages to inflict very quickly. Also, Tsunade used Byakugou to recover from about 8 different critical hits throughout her match with Madara, and that was with only a few weeks (if even) of chakra storage. Tsunade has stored up more chakra inside her seal in the past - at the start of Part II she had 2.5 years of chakra stored up, enough to dispense it to every single person in Konoha and presumably have some left over to heal herself. 

Minato only outlasts her if she has very little chakra stored up, otherwise he exhausts himself lest he try to chop off her head.



> Rusty? That's quite the half assed excuse and her interval with Kabuto flopped, she got internally screwed up. She was also caught flat out by Orochimaru's snake sword. There all far slower than Minato, too.



Half-assed? Do your homework before you get into an argument over something you know precious little about. It was canonly stated that she was out of shape on multiple occasions [1] [2]  Tsunade dodged Kabuto's attack surprise _here_, and even when he got behind her, she sensed him (evident _by her eyes_) and then _tackled into him_ before he got a chance to do anything. Granted she ran straight into his chakra scalpels, but that wasn't a blitz, that was Tsunade literally pushing herself into his attack.

She also jumped in the way of all of Orochimaru's attacks. That's not a blitz feat, its the complete opposite.



> It's specifically specified: That toads beat slugs. She has little... to no offensive techniques, so how on earth is she hurting Gamabunta?



Little . . to _no_? I'd love to know how you worked that one out whenever she can spew acid out of her mouth. I've already explained to you how she beats him, you've just ignored my response. 



> But she has to react first which I doubt.



I'm sure she can react to her own acid.



Rocky said:


> Wait...why? Unless he has some Fūinjutsu that we don't know about (in which case he would use that), he's going to aim straight for the neck. He has full knowledge, so there's so reason for him to waste him time with body shots that she can recover from. It'll be all Kunai strikes to the neck and Rasengans to the head area.



Oh, oops. I looked at mindset and saw IC. 

In that case, yeah, Minato will aim at her head from the outset. Although I'm not sure if he would actually do that in the manga, or if that would even kill her, it is a viable option and by feats at the very least he should win.



> Alternatively, he can use Gama Rinshō, and simply run away until it's prepared.



Minato's poor at Sage Mode though. Can he even sustain the mode for that long to accomplish such a feat? He doesn't ICly use Sage Mode either, iirc he admitted to having never used it in battle before while he was alive. 



> She's not going to hit him unless he goes on the offensive.



If he does go on the offensive and slams her with a rasengan, I think its quite likely that she will hit him, though. Of course that won't happen when he has full knowledge on her abilities.



> Actually I believe he could eat it.



Hardly. When he tries to swallow her she can just divide, or spit acid down his throat while he tries to stretch his mouth wide enough to completely engulf her. It also depends on the size of Katsuyu - bare in the mind that the real Katsuyu is much, much, much bigger than Gamabunta. The ones we have seen thus far are just smaller clones.



> It's supposed to go Snake < Slug < Toad < Snake, so I wouldn't necessarily be so sure that Godslug is the superior summon (even though that it's the best by feats, I'll give you that).



In my opinion that's more suggestive of Jiraiya > Tsunade > Orochimaru > Jiraiya. Though I do believe in the Sansukumi relationship when it comes to the Sannin, I just think Gamabunta > Katsuyu is one of those things where hype and feats just don't agree.​​


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## Mercurial (Apr 29, 2014)

I'd like to add to my joke post: people say that Tsunade wins against Asuma by portrayal (I can agree). The same people say that Tsunade can win agaist MINATO. 

Where's portrayal now? 

I don't know if Minato is tiers above Tsunade mostly because of his feats of because of his portrayal...


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## Larcher (Apr 29, 2014)

Minato has full knowledge he'll go straight for the neck. GG.


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## Legend777 (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> She even survived being teleported inside a Lightning bolt, receiving only some cuts and scratches afterwards.
> 
> Ei was completely fine , the same guy that got hurt by a jutsu rivaling rasengan with his raiton armor on​


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## Godaime Tsunade (Apr 29, 2014)

Legend777 said:


> Ei was completely fine , the same guy that got hurt by *a jutsu rivaling rasengan* with his raiton armor on



What jutsu was this?​​


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## Rocky (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Oh, oops. I looked at mindset and saw IC.
> 
> In that case, yeah, Minato will aim at her head from the outset. Although I'm not sure if he would actually do that in the manga, or if that would even kill her, it is a viable option and by feats at the very least he should win.



If Kishimoto had to write the fight in the Manga using some story elements, he would have Minato seal away her Chakra or something, imo. I doubt he would have her be offed by decapitation, but meh, it works for my purposes. 



> Minato's poor at Sage Mode though. Can he even sustain the mode for that long to accomplish such a feat? He doesn't ICly use Sage Mode either, iirc he admitted to having never used it in battle before while he was alive.



Minato doesn't need to actually enter Sage Mode to summon the elder Sages, so there should be no issues.

Also, for what it's worth, the official translation states that he has only used it in battle a few times before, not none at all.



> If he does go on the offensive and slams her with a rasengan, I think its quite likely that she will hit him, though. Of course that won't happen when he has full knowledge on her abilities.



That's why a no knowledge fight with them is more balanced. She _is_ an incredibly bad match-up for him.



> Hardly. When he tries to swallow her she can just divide, or spit acid down his throat while he tries to stretch his mouth wide enough to completely engulf her. It also depends on the size of Katsuyu - bare in the mind that the real Katsuyu is much, much, much bigger than Gamabunta. The ones we have seen thus far are just smaller clones.



Oh?


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## SSMG (Apr 29, 2014)

Tsunade gets stomped in all these.matches.


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## FlamingRain (Apr 29, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Alternatively, he can use Gama Rinshō, and simply run away until it's prepared.



Not even Jiraiya with a stronger affinity with the toad summons knew about it, why would Minato?

Actually is there even any reason to believe that Minato knows the ritual apparently required to summon Ma and Pa? I mean it's stated that only an extremely limited number of individuals have ever summoned them, and they're _800 years old_, so that's saying something.

I'd think that if he could summon them being poor at Sage Mode wouldn't be much of an issue, and that if he couldn't it'd probably explain why they've yet to come back in the war.


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## Rocky (Apr 29, 2014)

FlamingRain said:


> Not even Jiraiya with a stronger affinity with the toad summons knew about it, why would Minato?



Stronger affinity?



> Actually is there even any reason to believe that Minato knows the ritual apparently required to summon Ma and Pa? I mean it's stated that only an extremely limited number of individuals have ever summoned them, and they're _800 years old_, so that's saying something.



Minato is one of the most powerful Shinobi in history and just so happens to have a Toad Contract. I don't see why we're ruling him out of that "limited" group of individuals.

It's clear he at least knows of them, as he practiced Senjutsu.



> I'd think that if he could summon them being poor at Sage Mode wouldn't be much of an issue, and that if he couldn't it'd probably explain why they've yet to come back in the war.



If they were to fuse with him, he would probably have no issues maintaining Sage Mode. That does not mean that Minato isn't lackluster on his own when attempting to utilize Senjutsu. Furthermore, Minato has yet to summon _any_ Toad in the war, so that argument isn't enough.

For the record, it _was_ stated in a interview with Kishimoto that one with the Toad Contract can summon any Toad he wants, and this did not exclude the elder Sages.


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## Blu-ray (Apr 29, 2014)

Jinton turns her to dust and she gets ended by either Ama or Tsukuyomi. The only one that is going to have issues with her is Minato since he lacks a way to overpower her. The whole cutting her head off is ignoring the fact that byakugo is going to regenerate her wounds as soon as she is cut. As the blade passes through her neck, the part it passes through is just going to heal, not stay severed. She effortlessly kills Gamabunta too unless Minato is just going to warp it all over the place. Still, she can't actually catch him, let alone long enough to land a blow, so she gets outlasted.


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## FlamingRain (Apr 29, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Stronger affinity?



Yes.

A far more intimate and lengthy relationship, yes.



> Minato is one of the most powerful Shinobi in history and just so happens to have a Toad Contract. I don't see why we're ruling him out of that "limited" group of individuals.
> 
> It's clear he at least knows of them, as he practiced Senjutsu.



Minato being one of the most powerful ninja in history doesn't equate to being among the select few in every facet of history. He doesn't suddenly know everything an otherwise small group would simply because of how powerful he is. Power and knowledge of powers are separate things.

Having Senjutsu doesn't equate to being in that group either, because for all we know he went through exactly the same process as Naruto where he was simply summoned to Myōbokuzan without ever needing to learn how to summon those particular toads in return, or he could have even been taught by Jiraiya himself since he has been seen within the form without Ma and Pa on his shoulders.

The number is stated to be extremely limited, Minato has not been seen summoning the two, and learning Senjutsu does not actually mandate that he know how to do such, so what you actually need to be asking is why we should include him as opposed to why we should exclude him.



> If they were to fuse with him, he would probably have no issues maintaining Sage Mode. That does not mean that Minato isn't lackluster on his own when attempting to utilize Senjutsu. Furthermore, Minato has yet to summon _any_ Toad in the war, so that argument isn't enough.
> 
> For the record, it _was_ stated in a interview with Kishimoto that one with the Toad Contract can summon any Toad he wants, and this did not exclude the elder Sages.



The argument isn't standalone, Rocky, and the difference is that Minato has actually been seen summoning other toads. Otherwise I'd agree.

Kishimoto's comment is akin to getting a cell phone and being able to call whoever you want; one with the contract being able to summon whomever they want is still contingent upon learning the specifics required for each toad just like specific area codes, prefixes, and line numbers to actually get into contact with someone across their own phone.


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## Legend777 (Apr 29, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> What jutsu was this?​​



sasuke's chidori.


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## trance (Apr 30, 2014)

Ma and Pa said they never knew Jiraiya had a student here [x], so either they never met Minato or they did but didn't know he was once Jiraiya's student. I think the former is more likely.


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## RBL (Apr 30, 2014)

oh god, tsunade doesn't have any chance of winning, not even with the restrictions.

but as i see, for other people, tsunade GG, tsunade solos everyone, tsunade can tank 10 bijuu damas and survive, tsunade can regenerate herself faster than hashirama, even if she did admit inferiority.

but, oh well...


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## FlamingRain (Apr 30, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Ma and Pa said they never knew Jiraiya had a student here [x], so either they never met Minato or they did but didn't know he was once Jiraiya's student. I think the former is more likely.



I can't believe that detail eluded me.

Have some +rep.


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## Rocky (Apr 30, 2014)

Looks like we disagree on the mechanics of Kuchiyose, FlamingRain. I was under the impression that one only needed to know of the Toad to summon it as long is the contract is present. Jiraiya can summon Gamahiro is he wants, Naruto can summon Gamaken if he pleases, etc. There aren't different contracts for each individual summon. 

The cell phone analogy doesn't fit perfectly. When Naruto "called" Gamabunta in the war, Gamakichi came in his place. Naruto technically didn't need to know Gamakichi's "number" to summon him in that instance.


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## Rocky (Apr 30, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Ma and Pa said they never knew Jiraiya had a student here [x], so either they never met Minato or they did but didn't know he was once Jiraiya's student. I think the former is more likely.



What about Ma's statement...about the "destined child" on that very page.

I think you're taking Pa's statement out of context. They probably knew the 4th Hokage was dead, and therefore couldn't have been Jiraiya's opponent at the time.


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## FlamingRain (Apr 30, 2014)

Gamabunta told Gamakichi to answer the phone because he was busy, Rocky.


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## Rocky (Apr 30, 2014)

Ah but now we're venturing outside of the analogy.


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## Trojan (Apr 30, 2014)

Pa clearly knows about Minato, otherwise he wouldn't have stated that Naruto surpassed those who came before him if he never met the guy.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (May 1, 2014)

Sage Minato was a retcon.  It's not going to make sense when viewed with previous panels.

I've also wondered why it's a big deal for Minato to have trouble sustaining sage mode, when he could get the frogs to fuse on his shoulders and feed him sage energy like Jiraiya did.  



Raikiri19 said:


> I'd like to add to my joke post: people say that Tsunade wins against Asuma by portrayal (I can agree). The same people say that Tsunade can win agaist MINATO.
> 
> Where's portrayal now?
> 
> I don't know if Minato is tiers above Tsunade mostly because of his feats of because of his portrayal...



I hope you don't mean all of the same people.


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## FlamingRain (May 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> What about Ma's statement...about the "destined child" on that very page.



They were present when Ōgama Sennin gave the prediction, meaning they could've filled that detail in for themselves after Jiraiya said it was his student he was fighting.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 1, 2014)

Legend777 said:


> sasuke's chidori.



How is that comparable to the rasengan? They are both completely different types of damage.​​


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## Trojan (May 1, 2014)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Sage Minato was a retcon.  It's not going to make sense when viewed with previous panels.
> .



It really is not.  That was obvious that he has since chapter 430 came out. It did not require all that high thinking to figure that out honestly. The problem is just with those people who take things out of context.  

For me, I always knew that he has it since chapter 430, but once again, some pepole think if they did not see something, it must not exit, and that's wrong on their own part.


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## Hero (May 2, 2014)

^ you're stretching the fuck out of that.


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## Legend777 (May 5, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> How is that comparable to the rasengan? They are both completely different types of damage.​​



Different types but similar level of damage .
Ei would have  received significant damage from the chidori had he not used raiton armor . The same would be the case if he gets hit by a rasengan .
So Tsunade's feat of surviving Mabui's tech isn't so impressive wrt to this match considering the jutsu Minato has.

Part 1 Naruto's Rasengan managed to get the best of Kabuto's regen .  Edo Muu had trouble regenerating from Naruto's Planet Rasengan despite Edo's managing to shrug off attacks far stronger . So it does seem that Rasengan has the ability to negate regen to some extent .

Part 1 Naruto's Rasengan < MInato's Rasengan < Naruto's Planet Rasengan

Kabuto's regen < Tsunade's Byakugo < Edo Regen .

So it is possible that a barrage of Rasengans from Minato to Tsunade's vital areas can cause significant damage to Tsunade despite her regen.

*Regarding Minato vs Tsunade : *

Hype , feats and portrayal put Minato comfortably above Tsunade .

By feats Minato can win by :

Rasengan head shots 

Teleporting her somewhere else , thereby winning by BFR .

Take Bunta's sword and  teleport it conveniently.


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## FlamingRain (May 5, 2014)

Legend777 said:


> Part 1 Naruto's Rasengan managed to get the best of Kabuto's regen . Edo Muu had trouble regenerating from Naruto's Planet Rasengan despite Edo's managing to shrug off attacks far stronger .



What got the best of it was the fact that after extensive combat with Tsunade, Shizune, and Naruto back to back Kabuto had relatively little Chakra left by the time he used the technique. That's why Kabuto specifically complains about not having enough Chakra left to completely recover as opposed to his actual technique simply being insufficient to restore it.

Now, why don't we get the idea that it was Part 1 Naruto and Minato is Minato out of our heads and remember that Tsunade was using Minato's _Rasengan_ as an example to gauge Naruto's mastery of the technique? As well as the fact that she declared he had mastered it by the time he used it on Kabuto?

The disparity between a KCM-powered _Wakusei Rasengan_ variant and Minato's typical _Rasengan_ is logically going to be sizably larger than whatever difference there could be between Minato's _Rasengan_ compared to Part 1 Naruto's. That means things aren't looking good for Minato because _In'yu Shōmetsu_ is simply a pre-emptively applied variant of _Shosen_, and Tsunade's shown to be capable of providing the Chakra necessary for _thousands_ of Katsuyu clones to use it (twice over, mind you) before running dry, and she's also a lot more durable than Kabuto to begin with so the amount of damage she'd be taking is already lessened in comparison for each individual _Rasengan_.



> Teleporting her somewhere else , thereby winning by BFR .



_Hiraishin_ cannot just leave her in some isolated dimension she can't escape like _Kamui_ can- so if Minato did that she'd just go home or something, uninjured, and unrestricted.

If anything this tactic is more akin to a forfeit than a win on Minato's part, as he really wouldn't be doing anything more than distancing himself from his opponent.


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## Turrin (May 5, 2014)

Against Itachi.  When it comes to the conditions, Full-Knowledge is a wash, though the battlefield could advantage Tsunade if she is creative enough to utilize Shinju Tree against Itachi. Anyway, Tsunade is suppose to be around his "level". Itachi has a 35.5 in DBIII to Tsunade's 35 in DBIII. So no one is getting stomped here and it will most likely come down to their triumph cards; Stage 4 Susano'o vs Largest Katsuya. Susano'o Stage 4 is probably superior to any size of Katsuya Tsunade can summon on her own, so Itachi probably wins in the same way he defeated Orochimaru's Yamata technique (Totsuka Sword + Yata Mirror). However if Itachi's ill given the openings illness is shown to expose on Itachi and the toll Mangekyo takes on his well being, I see Tsunade winning high diff or the match ending in a draw with Itachi killing Tsunade, but him dying from the strain shortly afterwards (I.E. what happened in the Hebi-Sasuke duel). 

Against Minato. Base-Minato is a bit hard to rate, in terms of how much higher Kishimoto wants him to be seen than a Sannin like Tsunade. He has some astonishing hype, but mostly it's about his potential, which I don't think he ever got a chance to achieve in life. Anyway I tend to believe Base-Minato is on a similar "level" to Tsunade, but simply better (I expect his stat total to be around a 35.5 to 36.5). Given that Minato should beat Tsunade, though like in the case of Healthy-Itachi it don't expect it to be a stomp, and rather expect it will probably come down to triumph cards, though perhaps a little bit easier on Minato's end than Itachi's. Minato takes this with high-diff.

Against Onoki. I tend to see Tsunade as roughly around Onoki's "level"; both drove the action in the Gokage vs Madara duel. Onoki's suppose to be weaker than Hiruzen, but I envision the two as being extremely close; so close in-fact that Hiruzen's WOF might have been what was keeping him a tad bit ahead of Onoki prior to Onoki getting back his stone will. Simply put Onoki could beat Tsunade, but I could also see Tsunade beating Onoki. It's a very tough match to call, that I feel would probably come down to plot or conditions; here the battlefield can again advantage Tsunade if she's creative enough to use the Shinju-Tree to her advantage, though if not it's a coin flip.


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## tkpirate (May 5, 2014)

Itachi and Onoki can individually defeat her.though she will probably defeat Minato.


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## Godaime Tsunade (May 5, 2014)

Legend777 said:


> Different types but similar level of damage .



Not really. It has been stated multiple times that the rasengan is superior to chidori. This was outright proven in Part I when the hole Naruto makes inside a water tower using rasengan is significantly larger than the one Sasuke makes with Chidori. 

And the fact that they are different _types_ of damage is not something you can overlook either. Mabui's technique damaged by tearing and cutting the recipient into shreds with intense friction - that is somewhat more akin to Chidori's cutting damage than it is to rasengan's grinding force. The Raikage sustained a _minor stab wound_ when Sasuke impaled him with Chidori - a wound so minor in fact, that it is not even seen to be bleeding on following pages [1], inferring that the damage he sustained from Mabui's attack would have been something similar to dozens and dozens of slightly weaker Chidoris stabbing through him in many different places at once. 



> Ei would have  received significant damage from the chidori had he not used raiton armor .
> 
> So Tsunade's feat of surviving Mabui's tech isn't so impressive wrt to this match considering the jutsu Minato has.



To put this into perspective: Tsunade got hit with a Yasaka Magatama at point blank range and sustained no damage. However, she received multiple cuts and lacerations from Mabui's technique teleporting her. Ei received no damage at all. That suggests the damage inflicted by Mabui's Transfer jutsu is significantly more potent than Madara's Yasaka Magatama (which can cut through rock) and therefore that surviving with only cuts or without any damage at all is an incredibly impressive feat of durability because, as Mabui said, anything that can tear stone or something even _more_ durable than stone (the Sandaime Raikage's blood was compared to Iron - perhaps the Yondaime's can be compared to this also) to shreds, would certainly rip the average human into pieces.  

That considered, I highly doubt Sasuke's Chidori would have inflicted significant damage to him, given it's cutting power.




> Part 1 Naruto's Rasengan managed to get the best of Kabuto's regen .  Edo Muu had trouble regenerating from Naruto's Planet Rasengan despite Edo's managing to shrug off attacks far stronger . So it does seem that Rasengan has the ability to negate regen to some extent .
> 
> Part 1 Naruto's Rasengan < MInato's Rasengan < Naruto's Planet Rasengan
> 
> ...



FlamingRain saved me the bother of replying to the rest of your post.​​


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## Trojan (May 5, 2014)

Hero said:


> ^ you're stretching the fuck out of that.



how so?


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