# Pegasus Seiya in Dragon Ball Super verse



## Ultra Instinct Vegito (May 4, 2016)

Who is the strongest character he can beat? Speed equalized.


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## SkylineGTR (May 4, 2016)

Not another SS vs DB character thread 

Seiya can beat pretty much anyone in DB atm. Speed equal or not.

The only DB character that can beat Seiya is Zen-o assuming he truly can wipe out 12 universes on a whim (but he needs more feats before his power is fully accepted).


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## God Movement (May 4, 2016)

Any fight where you have to equalize speed probably isn't a good fight


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Whis destroys


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (May 4, 2016)

Though I'm curious how Super Shenglong compare in speed and Whis who was now confirmed to have traveled from one edge of the universe to the other in 3 hours.


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## jkujbkjhffd (May 4, 2016)

He doesn't make it past Whis or Vados imo.

We should also be able to see what the other Gods of Destruction are like in the upcoming multiverse tournament.


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## Iwandesu (May 4, 2016)

Seiya definitely doesnt beat either zenou or whiss
Beerus is more debatable given seiya capacity to tap on universe level + but that is really situational

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Doesn't matter speed if you can bust few universe in oneshot and are as durable as that

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## SkylineGTR (May 4, 2016)

Oomura Yoshitsugu said:


> Though I'm curious how Super Shenglong compare in speed and Whis who was now confirmed to have traveled from one edge of the universe to the other in 3 hours.



Curious but what scene are you talking about here? Whis traveled from the edge of the universe to the other end in 3 hours?


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## King Kakarot (May 4, 2016)

SkylineGTR said:


> Curious but what scene are you talking about here? Whis traveled from the edge of the universe to the other end in 3 hours?


Earth in Universe 7 is near the edge of the universe

The tournament grounds is outside universe 7 as shown last episode

Whis flew there in 3 hours iirc making him quintillions of times c

Which scales to about every god tier

Reactions: Like 1


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## SkylineGTR (May 4, 2016)

King Kakarot said:


> Earth in Universe 7 is near the edge of the universe
> 
> The tournament grounds is outside universe 7 as shown last episode
> 
> ...



Ah I see. Would you also happen to have the link for the calc? I thought the quadrillion c was based off another flying feat but seems I was mistakened?


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## NightmareCinema (May 4, 2016)

I somehow highly doubt Whis is in the quintillions range. The fact that it took him three hours to get there already puts a dampener on that.

The Bronzies flying through those galaxies in Hades' universe in mere minutes is a hell of a better feat than Whis'.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## God Movement (May 4, 2016)

That's not Whis' speed. It's the speed of the Cube. Which would probably be slower considering it's a vehicle which contains a lot of people.

We really haven't seen Whis go all out at full speed ever. At some point he may be forced to push himself to his limits and we'll see.

Reactions: Like 3


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

speed blitz as usual


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Speed blitz is useless if you can't damage your enemy

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

You need to be able to possess an energy exponentially highter than the original big bang to do so

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

3 goldies can do a big bang 
and seiya hurt hades


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

Exponentially highter means thousands or millions times stronger

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

you mean like this 


and shiryu nullifying the energy from both sides


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## Montanz (May 4, 2016)

SF latif said:


> you mean like this
> 
> 
> and shiryu nullifying the energy from both sides



Shiryu or any pre-kamui bronze scaling to that is bullshit tho, He only broke the balance of the clash propelling it upwards, he didn't actually surpass the cosmo of 6 gold saints.


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## Finalbeta (May 4, 2016)

So was it a multiversal feat?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Shiryu or any pre-kamui bronze scaling to that is bullshit tho, He only broke the balance of the clash propelling it upwards, he didn't actually surpass the cosmo of 6 gold saints.


well, not normally. he did it via burn his cosmo, it wouldn`t scale to them at all (atleast in an OBD Match). however, God cloth versions of them are just them in that max cosmo level tbh.


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## Keollyn (May 4, 2016)

SF latif said:


> you mean like this
> 
> 
> and shiryu nullifying the energy from both sides


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## Montanz (May 4, 2016)

Kamuis, though should be several orders of magnitude stronger than a simple AE still, without need to burn their cosmo.

Seiya should win by massive speed blitz and atomization.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 4, 2016)

Seiya when he hurt Hades is capable of killing pretty much anyone in current DB

midget king of 12 universes hasn't done anything, so let's not use him in a debate

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sablés (May 4, 2016)

Don't see how damaging Hades means he can one-shot the God-tiers. Its not like Hades was put on his death bed or something, his cloth wasn't even scratched.

Beerus alone can already nullify universal energy, shouldn't have much of an issue with Seiya. Everyone below gets decked.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 4, 2016)

Hades is much more powerful than Beerus, even hurting him like that would fuck up Beerus something fierce

Reactions: Like 1


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

Liquid said:


> Don't see how damaging Hades means he can one-shot the God-tiers. Its not like Hades was put on his death bed or something, his cloth wasn't even scratched.
> 
> Beerus alone can already nullify universal energy, shouldn't have much of an issue with Seiya. Everyone below gets decked.


no one really is arguing he`ll 1 shot every god tiers iirc + hades surplic was cracked and pieces got ripped off take a close look at this image and pay attention to it:  + huge speed advatantage so beerus ain`t nullfying no energy from seiya tbh


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## Montanz (May 4, 2016)

Hades has a double universal/low-multiversal feat in creating/sustaining at least two universe sized dimensions (Hyperdimension and Elysian which is 'infinite').

Only thing comparable from DBS is Beerus+Champa being stated to destroy their universes if they fought eachother at max power.


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## Solar (May 4, 2016)

SF latif said:


> + huge speed advatantage



It's speed equal, nergo.


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## Sablés (May 4, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Hades is much more powerful than Beerus, even hurting him like that would fuck up Beerus something fierce



About twice as much if we're being kwantifiable  (talking straight DC/Durability and ignoring the retarded speed and ability advantage in Favor of the Greek) and given that Beerus didn't give close to his best when he fought Goku, I'd wager the gap is quite a bit smaller still.

Beerus would also only get rekt if he were to take the blow all at once. He can mitigate the energy that hits him and would cut it in half at the least. Considering this is a situational power Seiya can use by burning all his cosmo, I'm giving Beerus the benefit of the doubt in a speed equal scenario.


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## SF latif (May 4, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> It's speed equal, nergo.


i missed that. gracias


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 4, 2016)

Beerus is gonna nullify his atoms being destroyed

Seems legit


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (May 4, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Hades has a double universal/low-multiversal feat in creating/sustaining at least two universe sized dimensions (Hyperdimension and Elysian which is 'infinite').
> 
> Only thing comparable from DBS is Beerus+Champa being stated to destroy their universes if they fought eachother at max power.



What about Super Shenglong outshining two universes?


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## Galactus The Destroyer (May 4, 2016)

Beerus does have the power to nullify a Universe level blast casually without going 100%, and a fight between him and Champa, the crossfire of they're fight can bust two Universes
So theres that.

 Anyone below God Tier gets beaten, but if the Zeno hype is real(Which it most likely is)
Then Seiya potentially gets babyshaked

Dunno about Shenron atm tbh

Reactions: Like 1


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

Poor Seiya


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## Unlucky13 (May 5, 2016)

Speed equals gives an advantage to DBS. If it wasn't there I'd say he'd clear god tiers like Beerus and Champa easily.


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## God Movement (May 5, 2016)

I believe *volumetrically* the Hyperdimension would be smaller than the regular universe, unless the contrary was mentioned? You can either go with a wide distribution of 20+ billion galaxies or a narrow distribution (which is what we used to get the quintillions FTL speed) but we can only really go with one to remain consistent.


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## Worldbreaker (May 5, 2016)

Why do you guys use the Dragon? that thing doesn't fight

Anyway this is basically a fight of pure raw power, Seiya is not winning this, especially with the apearence of Togepi


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

TBH Saint Seiya is not even legit multiversal

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (May 5, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Why do you guys use the Dragon? that thing doesn't fight
> 
> Anyway this is basically a fight of pure raw power, Seiya is not winning this, especially with the apearence of Togepi



It sure can, you just need to make a wish to it


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

Oomura Yoshitsugu said:


> What about Super Shenglong outshining two universes?


That's going to be galaxy-level.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

God Movement said:


> I believe *volumetrically* the Hyperdimension would be smaller than the regular universe, unless the contrary was mentioned? You can either go with a wide distribution of 20+ billion galaxies or a narrow distribution (which is what we used to get the quintillions FTL speed) but we can only really go with one to remain consistent.


If by regular you mean observable then not quite 
Or at least elysium itself is worthy millions of those iirc 
If you mean on a sense of "not infinite per say" then yeah pretty much 
Thats why hades is only universe+ 
He may have 2/3 dimensions multiple times bigger than the observable universe 
But they are still just that
Quantifiable dimensions 
Which is why he cant quitr break the multiversal bracket himself
Because millions of times infinite is still just infinite


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Which kinda reminds me how people wanted to claim low multiversal super because "universe área"
By this logic hades is like a freaking megaversal being


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## Bad Wolf (May 5, 2016)

Yeah, I was wondering how we treat universe like dragon ball where there are 12 universes but with a finite size and universe with infinite size


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> If by regular you mean observable then not quite
> Or at least elysium itself is worthy millions of those iirc
> If you mean on a sense of "not infinite per say" then yeah pretty much
> Thats why hades is only universe+
> ...


With this logic, there are no multiversal beings.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Tbh nothing stops db universes from being several universes on expansion that just happen to exist on a mirrored plan of existance 
Nothing stops the spheres from expanding or anything 
But Basically Universe level comes from the capability to destroy the "universe sized dimension you are in"


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> With this logic, there are no multiversal beings.


Nah not quite 
I didnt explain myself properly 
Destroying 2 at least universe sized dimensions that exists separated from themselves is a multiversal feat 
Hades dimensions are bigger than the observable universe by hardcore times 
But infinite is not something that applies to them per
So even they Being so many times bigger than the observable universe how much they compare to an actual universe is unknown 
Which means we have 2 too big to just call multigalaxy+ dimensions 
Thus they are just infite+ or universe +


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Which kinda reminds me how people wanted to claim low multiversal super because "universe área"
> By this logic hades is like a freaking megaversal being


So is Zeno

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## jkujbkjhffd (May 5, 2016)

Zeno is definitely Multiversal.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keollyn (May 5, 2016)

Definitely? He hasnt done anything yet.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Imperator100 (May 5, 2016)

Am I missing something? Doesn't the 8th sense mean Seiya can auto-resurrect and therefore have a good shot of eventually beating almost anyone, including the gods? Or does just one death count as a loss.


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## Galactus The Destroyer (May 5, 2016)

If fragging 12 Universes doesnt make you Multiversal I don't know what does.
Megaversal if he destroys their timelines right? Which could very well be infinite


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 5, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Definitely? He hasnt done anything yet.


clearly appearing and looking like a YGO card art reject makes him multiversal, keo

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Imperator100 (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> clearly appearing and looking like a YGO card art reject makes him multiversal, keo



>1600 ATK
>Multiversal
Zeno is as strong as Celtic Guardian, MAX.


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## Keollyn (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> clearly appearing and looking like a YGO card art reject makes him multiversal, keo



Haha yeah. Someone had too good a night before thinking up that design


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

Pandaemperorix said:


> Zeno is definitely Multiversal.


Possibly more

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## jkujbkjhffd (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> clearly appearing and looking like a YGO card art reject makes him multiversal, keo



Who said the dragon was multiversal?


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Nah not quite
> I didnt explain myself properly
> Destroying 2 at least universe sized dimensions that exists separated from themselves is a multiversal feat
> Hades dimensions are bigger than the observable universe by hardcore times
> ...



Too late.


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

Pandaemperorix said:


> Who said the dragon was multiversal?


He is universal in fact

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

zeno rules the multiverse
thats all
beerus has absolutely no way to know if he can truly get rid of all the multiverses in an instant
however beerus knows how powerful he and champa are
and despite the 2 attacking together= 2 universes ceasing to exist he pretty clearly seems to know there is no way they can put zeno down
so id be lenient to accept zeno as possible baseline multiversal based on this fact 
not beerus panicking claim he has no means to know


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> zeno rules the multiverse
> thats all
> beerus has absolutely no way to know if he can truly get rid of all the multiverses in an instant
> however beerus knows how powerful he and champa are
> ...


This
Zeno is legit casually universe+
Multiversal is a good word to use for him

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 5, 2016)

Or

we can

you know

wait until he does stuff like rational human beings and then get solid proof instead of fucking jumping the gun like always : )

Reactions: Like 3


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

We can predict the future

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

my post was to shot down the "12 universes buster" claim and to set up the very multiverse level as just a possibility instead of this "definitely multiversal" people are claiming him to be
im not jumping the gun robert, just being reasonable with the actual statements and informatons we can take at face value
however i agree that at the end of the day this dr.slump rip off of character will need to actually do something before we use him in matches
i mean maybe he is a RW instead of someone who uses dc
or maybe he is a fluke like 90% of dbz gods


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## jkujbkjhffd (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Or
> 
> we can
> 
> ...



Most of the claims from Super have actually been legit so far

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

Pandaemperorix said:


> Most of the claims from Super have actually been legit so far


That's why I'm bumping the truth

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## NightmareCinema (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Or
> 
> we can
> 
> ...


You expect too much from the newbies, Robert.

That's why some of the old guards're still around: to keep them in check.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

You better call newbies your sons

OT: your arrogancy won't help you change people's minds

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Agent9149 (May 5, 2016)

King Kakarot said:


> Earth in Universe 7 is near the edge of the universe
> 
> The tournament grounds is outside universe 7 as shown last episode
> 
> ...



Wasn't that in the cube? And how could one get a definite range from an indefinite distance?




God Movement said:


> Which would probably be slower considering it's a vehicle which contains a lot of people.



That's not sound logic considering vehicle can contain a lot of people and be way faster than anyone in it. lol


Frederica Bernkastel said:


> With this logic, there are no multiversal beings.



Depends on how you define mutliversal. Destroying multiple universes or destroying a cosmological structure that is an actual Multiverse?



Imperator100 said:


> Am I missing something? Doesn't the 8th sense mean Seiya can auto-resurrect and therefore have a good shot of eventually beating almost anyone, including the gods? Or does just one death count as a loss.



For battles with people so high in the cosmic sphere, win by one death is really a cheap technicality.


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Or
> 
> we can
> 
> ...


I'm okay with this since it would get rid of some theoretical calculations like black hole ones. 



Agent9149 said:


> Depends on how you define mutliversal. Destroying multiple universes or destroying a cosmological structure that is an actual Multiverse?



You should explain the difference to my dumb head.


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## Agent9149 (May 5, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> You should explain the difference to my dumb head.



Well, the best way I can explain is if we can equate a universe as a classroom and School as Multiverse. A school can hold x number of classrooms. (In some cases infinite number of classrooms).

Some define a multiversal as being able to destroy multiple classrooms. Other's define multiversal as being able to destroy the whole school.


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> Well, the best way I can explain is if we can equate a universe as a classroom and School as Multiverse. A school can hold x number of classrooms. (In some cases infinite number of classrooms).
> 
> Some define a multiversal as being able to destroy multiple classrooms. Other's define multiversal as being able to destroy the whole school.


What are the quantitative differences here?


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## Agent9149 (May 5, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> What are the quantitative differences here?



There are no quantitative differences to be honest. It's extremely relative and should be taken case by case.

Multiverse A could have only 12 universes. Multiverse B could have 32 universes. Character X in the Multiverse A could destroy the entire Multiverse A. Character Y in Multiverse B can't destroy the multiverse but can destroy 18 universes in one shot.

Is character Y stronger than Character X?


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## Solar (May 5, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> There are no quantitative differences to be honest. It's extremely relative and should be taken case by case.
> 
> Multiverse A could have only 12 universes. Multiverse B could have 32 universes. Character X in the Multiverse A could destroy the entire Multiverse A. Character Y in Multiverse B can't destroy the multiverse but can destroy 18 universes in one shot.
> 
> Is character Y stronger than Character X?




Y is considered stronger.


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## Worldbreaker (May 5, 2016)

lol Zeno will likely not show any multiversal feat, I mean you actually think he will destroy the 12 universes?

That's not going to happen he's a good guy not an asshole like the Gods of destruction


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## God Movement (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> If by regular you mean observable then not quite
> Or at least elysium itself is worthy millions of those iirc
> If you mean on a sense of "not infinite per say" then yeah pretty much
> Thats why hades is only universe+
> ...



You're mixing up Hyper Dimension with Elysium. Hyper Dimension is the dimension with 20 billion+ galaxies. That's a fewer amount than our universe.


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## SF latif (May 5, 2016)

God Movement said:


> You're mixing up Hyper Dimension with Elysium. Hyper Dimension is the dimension with 20 billion+ galaxies. That's a fewer amount than our universe.


the mount galaxies in HD is unsepcified imo
the narration only described what the bronzes had crossed it wasn`t "literally"


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## God Movement (May 5, 2016)

SF latif said:


> the mount galaxies in HD is unsepcified imo
> the narration only described what the bronzes had crossed it wasn`t "literally"



It was vague. 20 billion is the minimum. Which is why we use that figure


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Thats the best we have so moot point is moot


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## Finalbeta (May 5, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> lol Zeno will likely not show any multiversal feat, I mean you actually think he will destroy the 12 universes?
> 
> That's not going to happen he's a good guy not an asshole like the Gods of destruction


This is a good point also

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

im asking him to proof He can at least tank and oneshot 2 gods of destruction before we buy claims from People that could have Just heard fairy tales from His "allmight boss"


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

because dbz is a verse where city level characters rule over earth and planet level at best rule fucking galaxy systems


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## XImpossibruX (May 5, 2016)

Regarding Seiya's atomization.

Beerus clash and blast against SSG Goku was said to wipe out everything, leaving the universe a void. Wouldn't that imply Beerus is destroying all the atoms of planets, suns, galaxies, etc, if he's leaving it a complete and utter void?


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

No not really 
A void doesnt need to be deatomized 
Space itself is a vaccum/void with literally everything in the universe inside 
It does means beerus can wipe out everything 
Which can be some violent pulverization or just outright vaping shit


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## Xcano (May 5, 2016)

Wouldn't Beerus be able to tell how strong Zeno is by feeling his Ki though


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Definitely? He hasnt done anything yet.


He doesn't need to. It's made perfectly clear how strong he is. Just because you want him to destroy 12 universes first doesn't discredit
What the author has specifically stated about his power and made perfectly clear.



NightmareCinema said:


> You expect too much from the newbies, Robert.
> 
> That's why some of the old guards're still around:* to keep them in check.*


Well aren't you tough.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

This doesnt mean he knows the energy to wipe all of the universe 
And if zen-chin was exhallating enormous god ki goku would know


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## Keollyn (May 5, 2016)

I don't want him to do anything. I don't care about Super enough to care what anyone does.

But I particularly like for our established OBD debating style to stay uphold.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> What the author has specifically stated about his power and made perfectly clear.


Never happened 
Beerus is a scarred pussy (on the both means) the whole scene 
Wathever he says is not wog is fallible character statement from someone who never saw the multiverse being destroyed but has hearsay that zenou is an all powerful friend 
May as well call mr satan a cell buster by this logic 
Zenou clearly barely appears to the gods and when he does so it is made clear that he can demode them from their position


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> This doesnt mean he knows the energy to wipe all of the universe
> And if zen-chin was exhallating enormous god ki goku would know


He clearly has the power. Beerus was afraid of him in his actual presence implying as such. I don't think two universal beings would be shitting their pants for no reason.


Keollyn said:


> I don't want him to do anything. I don't care about Super enough to care what anyone does.
> 
> But I particularly like for our established OBD debating style to stay uphold.


It's clear what he can do. To need to actually see him destroy 12 universes when the author clearly laid out what he can do is dumb.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

So either someone not licking his boots(aka whiss/vados) states something similar or this is just bullshit


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## Keollyn (May 5, 2016)

I don't know why you keep quoting me and stating "need to see 12 universe destroyed"

When I never said that. At all.


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

> He clearly has the power. Beerus was afraid of him in his actual presence implying as such. I don't think a two universal beings would be shitting their pants for no reason.


You are totally underestimating how literally infinite is the gap between universe level and multiverse level 
A universe+ can casually solo packs of universe level feggits 
No need to be multiversal much less 12 times at that to be much above the gods


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

I mean just look at how beerus being universal already makes goku fooder to gods even with all the upgrades he got


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> I don't know why you keep quoting me and stating "need to see 12 universe destroyed"
> 
> When I never said that. At all.


Because when an author truly goes far and beyond to make something perfectly clear and you don't want it to count unless you see an actual feat then I find that to be stupid.

MoM from spawn is clearly considered omnipotent because it has been made clear. She hasn't actually done anything to truly prove it on paper as far as destroying the image omniverse but it's accepted that she is in fact that powerful.

It's really that simple.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## Keollyn (May 5, 2016)

You're trying to hard here.

Reactions: Like 2


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> You're trying to hard here.


Or you're not trying hard enough. Literally if Toriyama stated a certain character was omnipotent you wouldn't count it
unless you seen him creating all of existence. That's how silly your logic is.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## SkylineGTR (May 5, 2016)

Nobodies saying Zeno isn't Multiversal. It's just we need more evidence for his multiversal prowess. The guy only appeared for 30 seconds after all. I'm sure the series will expand on his authority/power eventually but in the mean time, he's not a "fully" accepted multiversal being. He most likely is but we can't say for sure atm.


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## Jag77 (May 5, 2016)

Seiya solo's


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## Worldbreaker (May 5, 2016)

Nobody thinks Zeno is multiversal only because Bills was afraid of him, it's because he states the exactly what he can destroy, he doesn't say "he can destroy us all" or "he can destroy everything/existence", he states "he could wipe all 12 universes in an instant"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Beerus cant know that from what we know
He never saw the 12 universes being wiped out   
He just knows zenou is far above him and get carried on 
This is the very definition of fallible character statement 
either zenou brings more to the table or He just gets beerus to possible beerus vs champa scalling


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## almanar (May 5, 2016)

Seiya stop at zeno . unless.. He got back up by Athena voice lol. He can rise his Cosmo infinitely.


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## Worldbreaker (May 5, 2016)

How do you know Beerus has never been witness to the power of Zeno?
Whiss is also above Beerus and he isn't afraid of him, hell he has threaten Whiss before, and Beerus isn't the type of character that makes mistakes on someones power, the gods are perfectly aware of their strenght seeing how Champa was willing to fight all universe 6 fighters + Goku with confidence, you can't deny Beerus statement as if any dumb ass character said it
Even by scalling from Champa and Bills fight that would make Zeno multiversal seing how the cats were going to destroy 2 universes and we know that Zeno is above them

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (May 5, 2016)

Im not saying he cant be multiversal from beerus and champa
My first post on the matter brings this possibility
Im saying there is not enough proof he is a 12 universes buster 
Also champa being>>>U6 fuckers just means they aint touching a real universe buster yet


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## Claudio Swiss (May 5, 2016)

Literally people can't you guys wait and see what zeno can fully do! I mean does wait and see mean nothing in this day and age or what anyway can whis or vados stop seya at least?


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## XImpossibruX (May 5, 2016)

Just wait for Whis to confirm it. 

The dude has been the most credible source in Dragon Ball.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Juub (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Im not saying he cant be multiversal from beerus and champa
> My first post on the matter brings this possibility
> Im saying there is not enough proof he is a 12 universes buster
> Also champa being>>>U6 fuckers just means they aint touching a real universe buster yet


What if he never does it because the author doesn't care to prove to some nerds that a midget can bust 12 universes when it was clearly mentioned as a way of making the viewer aware of how powerful Zeno is?

Of course he could also turn out to be a Monaka lol.


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Im not saying he cant be multiversal from beerus and champa
> My first post on the matter brings this possibility
> *Im saying there is not enough proof he is a 12 universes buster *
> Also champa being>>>U6 fuckers just means they aint touching a real universe buster yet


Right, cause a universal+ god doesn't know what he is talking about. Go downplay somewhere else.
Hell, Toriyama doesn't know what he's talking about when he explains what's going on in his own manga.
Please...

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Juub (May 5, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Right, cause a universal+ god doesn't know what he is talking about. Go downplay somewhere else.
> Hell, Toriyama doesn't know what he's talking about when he explains what's going on in his own manga.
> Please...


To play Devil's Advocate Monaka was hyped up by Beerus to be stronger than either Goku or Vegeta. Zeno might prove to be a joke character just to motivate Goku into thinking there is a guy strong enough to wipe out 12 universes.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 5, 2016)

two joke characters who aren't what they're cracked up to be would be pretty dumb, but dumb shit has happened before in Super

Reactions: Funny 1


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## King Diablo (May 5, 2016)

Juub said:


> To play Devil's Advocate Monaka was hyped up by Beerus to be stronger than either Goku or Vegeta. Zeno might prove to be a joke character just to motivate Goku into thinking there is a guy strong enough to wipe out 12 universes.


Your logic fails on numerous levels with two complete and totally different characters. Monaka was never taken seriously by beerus and in fact
Beerus nearly crapped his pants when the possibility of monaka coming up to fight because he knew he would lose.

Zeno is literally the god of all 12 universes and beerus/champa both nearly crapped their pants in his presence. Not from him being a joke, but from him being as powerful as he actually is. Toriyama went out of his way to even have Beerus explain he could destroy all 12 universes on a whim.

Your comparison not only doesn't hold up it; it doesn't even make sense.


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

>downplaying 
Pff 
Stop jumping the gun ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) 
if no multiversal feat or reliable statement happens on dbs ever then no one will be multiversal 
Thats how it is to all the verses and is not because db has all those wankers that it will be valid


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## Juub (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Your logic fails on numerous levels with two complete and totally different characters. Monaka was never taken seriously by beerus and in fact
> Beerus nearly crapped his pants when the possibility of monaka coming up to fight because he knew he would lose.
> 
> Zeno is literally the god of all 12 universes and beerus/champa both nearly crapped their pants in his presence. Not from him being a joke, but from him being as powerful as he actually is. Toriyama went out of his way to even have Beerus explain he could destroy all 12 universes on a whim.
> ...


That's not my point. My point is simply that until we get more information on the character we cannot say without a shadow of doubt that they are really who they claim to be. If the series ends and Beeru's statement is never contradicted then I'm all for accepting it. Knowing Super I wouldn't be surprised if he actually turns out to be a scrub next week. Especially given his questionable design.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> >downplaying
> Pff
> Stop jumping the gun ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)
> *if no multiversal feat or reliable statement happens on dbs ever then no one will be multiversal *
> Thats how it is to all the verses and is not because db has all those wankers that it will be valid


Right, because beerus and champa both universal+ gods aren't credible. Go Pff to Toriyama and call him a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) if you don't like the feats he makes up in his own manga.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Juub said:


> That's not my point. My point is simply that until we get more information on the character we cannot say without a shadow of doubt that they are really who they claim to be. If the series ends and Beeru's statement is never contradicted then I'm all for accepting it. Knowing Super I wouldn't be surprised if he actually turns out to be a scrub next week. Especially given his questionable design.


Then these matches should be outright banned until super is over. Save everyone a headache because it comes down to downplay until you see proof or take toriyama at his word until otherwise shown different.


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Right, because beerus and champa bother universal+ gods aren't credible. Go Pff to Toriyama and call him a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) if you don't like the feats he makes up in his own manga.


Yeah they indeed arent 
Nor they are universe +
Their best feat is universe level individually 
Regardless they never destroyed all 12 universes and cant know how much power takes to do so 
Thats just it and your buuthurt is really not changing it 
Bring feats or gtfo 
Either someone superior or comparable to zenou ackowledges his power  (like whiss did on beerus case) or this is just beerus a know liar and fucker who makes moles into hills desperate to not get demoded and executed by zenou


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Yeah they indeed arent
> Nor they are universe +
> Their best feat is universe level individually
> Regardless they never destroyed all 12 universes and cant know how much power takes to do so
> ...


I guess champa is full of shit too. I guess whis or anyone else not denying his role when he appears in front of them is just for kicks.
Damn your blatant hatred of db is almost palpable.
I'd take a break from vs forums if this is getting you that upset.


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> I guess champa is full of shit too. I guess whis or anyone else not denying his role when he appears in front of them is just for kicks.


You mean his role as the multiverse king? 
Because earth King is planet level right? 
Kaio is totally multi galaxy 


> Damn your blatant hatred of db is almost palpable.
> I'd take a break from vs forums if this is getting you that upset.


Awesome
Pls take a break 
And never fucking come back 
Your wanking definitely wont be missed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Juub (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Yeah they indeed arent
> Nor they are universe +
> Their best feat is universe level individually
> *Regardless they never destroyed all 12 universes and cant know how much power takes to* do so
> ...


That's fucking stupid.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> You mean his role as the multiverse king?
> Because earth King is planet level right?
> Kaio is totally multi galaxy


Kaio wasn't stated to be able to decimate 12 universes like childs play by a universal+ God in front of other gods and have no one deny it.



iwandesu said:


> Awesome
> Pls take a break
> And never fucking come back
> Your wanking definitely wont be missed


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

Because? 
They surely never saw all multiverses getting busted on an instant 
At best they can guess 
Which given their upper limit is affecting 2 fucking mirror universes is quite difficult


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Because?
> *They surely never saw all multiverses getting busted on an instant *
> At best they can guess
> Which given their upper limit is affecting 2 fucking mirror universes is quite difficult


You know this how? Oh, that's right, you don't.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

How would they know? 
He is Still alive after all
If we are given reason beerus knows enough about zenou to make this claim instead of just knowing him as the ocassional allmighty being he cant oppose then sure 
But at any rate we will need to wait for more information isntead of jumping the gun like what you are doing 
If beerus has any prior knowledge about zenou powers from fights and witness he will share it eventually 
It is a key point in his story after all


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> snip-


Please just stop. Go farm more rep in the introduction thread so you can neg me three more times in the next couple days.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

I really wont tbh 
I neg dumb posts if you dont post dumb shit i wont neg you  
Or do you think i can bother remembering the face of every dumbass i negged ?


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> I really wont tbh
> I neg dumb posts if you dont post dumb shit i wont neg you
> Or do you think i can bother remembering the face of every dumbass i negged ?


>Calls me a dumbass
>Farms rep in newb thread
>Need all da reps
>neg neg neg neg neg neg~
>PTSD


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

>I call people for what they look to me 
>wot?
>again wot? 
>shit post shit post shit post
>
 
 
 If you really think i would bother farming rep just to neg you im not sure my sides will...

Reactions: Like 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> >I call people for what they look to me
> >wot?
> >again wot?
> >shit post shit post shit post
> ...


>Doesn't actually deny that he does farm reps


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## Descendant Of Vagabonds (May 6, 2016)

Farm reps? How do you go about doing that?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

So wait

People are actually giving someone shit for saying "Just wait until we get more confirmation" and Don't jump the gun like DBS tards always do?

God fucking damn, DBS makes people retarded as fuck

Reactions: Like 6


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## Finalbeta (May 6, 2016)

Descendant Of Vagabonds said:


> Farm reps? How do you go about doing that?


Rep doesn't matter anymore tbh

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## almanar (May 6, 2016)

Oh well, i will take it note..... If there is another thread way too long, it is not because those thread is good and a lot of member reply it . but it was 2 member are quarelling in argument  and the other enjoy their argument like a drama or cinema.. Yeah really enjoyed it.....

Oh how about the result so far? Is seiya can takedown more than half of DBS fighter?


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## Finalbeta (May 6, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> So wait
> 
> People are actually giving someone shit for saying "Just wait until we get more confirmation" and Don't jump the gun like DBS tards always do?
> 
> God fucking damn, DBS makes people retarded as fuck


They were DBZ once
they grew up into DBS

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

almanar said:


> Oh well, i will take it note..... If there is another thread way too long, it is not because those thread is good and a lot of member reply it . but it was 2 member are quarelling in argument  and the other enjoy their argument like a drama or cinema.. Yeah really enjoyed it.....
> 
> Oh how about the result so far? Is seiya can takedown more than half of DBS fighter?


Either stop at beerus or a miracle from athena allows him to reach up around whiss


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

This is fucking ridiculous. Look, I had no problem accepting God Seiya or fuck..... EVEN FUCKING THANATOS could solo DB in Z.

Fuck.... even Saga.

Saying Zeno cant bust 12 universes, so what do you want? A panel of him busting the 12 universes and if not, he cant do so? 

Lets see.... Beerus could bust the universe while fighting against Goku, despite not using even 10% of his strenght (confirmed by the fact not even Goku with another transformations, 3 years of training and powering up 10 times can match Beerus)

Beerus fighting with Champa would had destroyed 2 universes.

Whis can oneshot Beerus, yet Beerus doesnt crap while seeing Whis.

Beerus and Champa crap while the seeing Zeno.

We know Zeno > Champa and Beerus at the same time.

Yet..... the statement he can bust the 12 universes is not true?

He can easily bust a single universe, why is it hard to believe he can know if someone can bust 12?

Do note he said he can bust them "in a blink", so even if Beerus is exaggerating, there is still ample space for Zeno busting 12 universes, even if it takes him extreme effort.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> Either stop at beerus or a miracle from athena allows him to reach up around whiss



Athena is universal. What makes you think (aside speed) she is superior to Whis?


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## Finalbeta (May 6, 2016)

Whis is surely stronger than Beerus
How much is still a doubt

He should be universal+ if Beerus is universal

Just logic

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SF latif (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Athena is universal. What makes you think (aside speed) she is superior to Whis?


universe+ 
she overpowered posiedons universal cosmo whiout her kamui. not that i care about her since i find her too inconsistence


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

SF latif said:


> universe+
> she overpowered posiedons universal cosmo whiout her kamui. not that i care about her since i find her too inconsistence



Whis should be universe+ too, he can oneshot Beerus (unless that scene got retconned in super)


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Yet another person who thinks we need to see all 12 universes being destroyed to prove it to us.

There are better ways to prove said power. DBS has not yet presented it, so stop acting like we are in the wrong for wanting that.


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> There are better ways to prove said power.



For example? Would Whis or Vados saying it would be enough?

Because if you are going to demand someone "comparable" or "superior" to Zeno, is likely there is not...... well with the possible exception of Zarama.


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Yet another person who thinks we need to see all 12 universes being destroyed to prove it to us.
> 
> There are better ways to prove said power. DBS has not yet presented it, so stop acting like we are in the wrong for wanting that.


Although, not gonna lie, an on-screen presentation of that is the most clear-cut way of determining a feat's legitimacy.

But yeah, a statement from either Whis or Vados (most preferably the former since the latter's rather prone to twisting words) is also acceptable.

Until then, these fuckers should count their lucky stars that Dragon Ball even made it to universe level.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 2


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> For example? Would Whis or Vados saying it would be enough?
> 
> Because if you are going to demand someone "comparable" or "superior" to Zeno, is likely there is not...... well with the possible exception of Zarama.



A creation feat (can either happen in the present or have happened in the past), a nod to an event similar in the past (via flashback or a statement. Doesn't matter), or a lighter display. Just something. Would you allow a planet buster their power if they haven't even shown city level power? Same line of reasoning here. 

There needs to be something, anything. Statements can only take you so far.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Although, not gonna lie, an on-screen presentation of that is the most clear-cut way of determining a feat's legitimacy.



True, but I'm even behind the notion that showing that power is a bit much. Still there are a number of ways to elude to said power.



> But yeah, a statement from either Whis or Vados (most preferably the former since the latter's rather prone to twisting words) is also acceptable.



For me, what Iwandesu was saying is how I feel. Statements from characters mean jack if they have no way of knowing what that level of power looks like. That's why I feel references are more important than statements of power. And they're just as easy to present too.



> Until then, these fuckers should count their lucky stars that Dragon Ball even made it to universe level.



Agreed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Iwandesu (May 6, 2016)

discussing lol universal or universe+ athena aside
empowered by miracles seiya can hurt hades
thats what i meant


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Yet another person who thinks we need to see all 12 universes being destroyed to prove it to us.
> 
> There are better ways to prove said power. DBS has not yet presented it, so stop acting like we are in the wrong for wanting that.


You are in the wrong when it's been made blatantly clear.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Beerus and Champa both Universe+er's were scared of the omni-king and beerus stated how strong he was around all the other god's and whiss/vados didn't make a snarky remark denying what he stated. Deal with the reality of multiversal dragonball. I know it's a tough pill for some of you to swallow but you better get used to it.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> You are in the wrong when it's been made blatantly clear.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

You're trapped in your own denial. Argue differently with logic otherwise deal with it. :/


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> discussing lol universal or universe+ athena aside
> empowered by miracles seiya can hurt hades
> thats what i meant



Athena is clearly universal or universal+, what is it being discussed? Whis and Vados are universal+ too.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> You're trapped in your own denial. Argue differently with logic otherwise deal with it. :/


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Beerus and Champa both Universe+er's were scared of the omni-king and beerus stated how strong he was around all the other god's and whiss/vados didn't make a snarky remark denying what he stated. Deal with the reality of multiversal dragonball. I know it's a tough pill for some of you to swallow but you better get used to it.



Do you know exactly why the multi galaxy/universe level statements back during the BoG saga were accepted? Because the visuals backed them up. Then taken a step further when the full size of the universe was shown.

Beerus' statement has NOTHING to back it up yet.

Only reality here would be you fuckers jumping the gun.


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

I don't find the need for (reasonable) confirmation to be.... well unreasonable. I really think we may have a feat at the end, with the existece of a Dragon who can affect at least 2 universes and a superior Dragon who might have no limits on its wishes, there is already a plot device for the 12 universes to be restored if need be.

But honestly it looks like straws, why the fuck would the writers say Zeno can bust all 12 universe in a blink, if he can't? From a clearly scared Beerus, we even got an image of the 12 universes when describig how Zeno is on top of them all.

I mean is not like it is an infinite multiverse, it is only 12 universes. Beerus already has experience with beings that can rape him (Whis), Beerus can EASILY destroy an universe and we know the battle between Beerus and Champa would destroy 2 universes even if the gods does not intend to do so.

It is just a jump of power 12 times greater than his own, it is not really unreasonable for Beerus to be able to meassure that power. Beings with god ki can meassure other beings with god ki.

Weren't the Z fighters always able to meassure the power level of villains hundreds or even thousands of times stronger than them?

There might be an error margin, but since Beerus said he can do it in "a blink" there is plenty of margin to err and him still being able to bust 12 universes.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Do you know exactly why the multi galaxy/universe level statements back during the BoG saga were accepted? Because the visuals backed them up. Then taken a step further when the full size of the universe was shown.
> 
> *Beerus' statement has NOTHING to back it up yet.*
> 
> Only reality here would be you fuckers jumping the gun.


Champa shitting his pants as well backs it up. Whis and Vados not denying he is in fact the the omni-king backs it up.
All those universals showed him respect. No snarky comments when beerus told goku how strong he is.
It's pretty obvious it's legit. Unless of course your in denial because of your bias/hatred.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't find the need for (reasonable) confirmation to be.... well unreasonable. I really think we may have a feat at the end, with the existece of a Dragon who can affect at least 2 universes and a superior Dragon who might have no limits on its wishes, there is already a plot device for the 12 universes to be restored if need be.
> 
> But honestly it looks like straws, why the fuck would the writers say Zeno can bust all 12 universe in a blink, if he can't? From a clearly scared Beerus, we even got an image of the 12 universes when describig how Zeno is on top of them all.
> 
> ...


Technically far larger if you consider the alternate timeline.


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Technically far larger if you consider the alternate timeline.



I really doubt the universes includes the alternate timelines.


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Because the visuals backed them up. Then taken a step further when the full size of the universe was shown.



I don't know about you, but this seems to be pretty visual to me



They were shown where describing Zeno's domain over the multiverse.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I really doubt the universes includes the alternate timelines.


I'm not saying they do. Just saying in general it adds to the overall size of everything as far as things outside those 12 universes.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't know about you, but this seems to be pretty visual to me
> 
> 
> 
> They were shown where describing Zeno's domain over the multiverse.


Bu-bu-but it doesn't count until whis or vados says it first! Even though they where in front of the king as well and never denied anything
along with toriyama going out of his way to explain how strong he is including even visuals. Lol


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> I'm not saying they do. Just saying in general it adds to the overall size of everything as far as things outside those 12 universes.



Yes, but regarding Zeno's statement it was only 12 universes, which is why I am saying Beerus knowing he can bust that is not unreasonable since it is only a power 12 times greater (at least) than his own. Even if there is an error margin, the fact that he said he can do it "in a blink" leaves a pretty large margin to err and still being able to destroy the 12 universes.

To say he can't do it, is not even saying Beerus can be wrong, but to flatout said he had absolutely no idea of what Zeno an do, a notion I find ridiculous, both because he clearly knows him and also because anyone can get a hold of the general level someone is at by meassuring their ki, even if said someone is thousands of times stronger (like the Z fighters did with Cell).


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> *Yes, but regarding Zeno's statement it was only 12 universes, which is why I am saying Beerus knowing he can bust that is not unreasonable* since it is only a power 12 times greater (at least) than his own. Even if there is an error margin, the fact that he said he can do it "in a blink" leaves a pretty large margin to err and still being able to destroy the 12 universes.
> 
> To say he can't do it, is not even saying Beerus can be wrong, but to flatout said he had absolutely no idea of what Zeno an do, a notion I find ridiculous, both because he clearly knows him and also because anyone can get a hold of the general level someone is at by meassuring their ki, even if said someone is thousands of times stronger (like the Z fighters did with Cell).


I agree with you. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Writers can say whatever they want. That never changed how we function here on this forum, and it won't change now.

Otherwise, we'd have to be tied to shit where some writers said x character with MHS feats is supersonic (and yes, I've seen post where users said interviews did such things). That's why we predominantly went by feats as the most important thing in debates.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Writers can say whatever they want. That never changed how we function here on this forum, and it won't change now.
> 
> *Otherwise, we'd have to be tied to shit where some writers said x character with MHS feats is supersonic (and yes, I've seen post where users said interviews did such things). *That's why we predominantly went by feats as the most important thing in debates.


There's nothing here with such a contradiction. With all that has been shown to support it, it should be taken as fact until proven otherwise.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

I'm not talking to you.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> I'm not talking to you.


Then you get out of here if you don't wanna debate. Can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 6, 2016)

I have zero idea why people are against the idea of waiting until the guy actually does something

people need to learn to keep it in their pants

Reactions: Like 3


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I have zero idea why people are against the idea of waiting until the guy actually does something
> 
> people need to learn to keep it in their pants


Why are people so against accepting it. That's what I want to know. Nothing has been shown to contradict it.
In fact otherwise has been shown. Does it hurt feelings that badly that db is now multiversal. Apparently people can't handle it.
MoM is accepted as omnipotent and hasn't shown omniversal omnipotence but everyone accepts it.
Of course this is db not comics so it doesn't get the same respect.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Then you get out of here if you don't wanna debate. Can't handle the heat stay out of the kitchen.



Debate? You think what you're doing is debating?





Crimson Dragoon said:


> I have zero idea why people are against the idea of waiting until the guy actually does something
> 
> people need to learn to keep it in their pants



I really want to know myself CD.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Debate? You think what you're doing is debating?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So kewl post gifs, insult, jumps to the side with the dodge and repeat. 
Refute the arguments. Oh wait you can't.


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## Worldbreaker (May 6, 2016)

Aside from Zno being multiversal or not

Do people agree that he stops at Beerus or do you guys think he solo?


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

I have to refute a non-existent feat? Guys, in what world is this a thing?


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Writers can say whatever they want. That never changed how we function here on this forum, and it won't change now.
> 
> Otherwise, we'd have to be tied to shit where some writers said x character with MHS feats is supersonic (and yes, I've seen post where users said interviews did such things). That's why we predominantly went by feats as the most important thing in debates.



The point here is that honestly, it seems harder to argue for Zeno not being multiversal that argue for him being multiversal.

Again, for Zeno not being multiversal, you have not only to argue that Beerus doesn't know Zeno's power but that he has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about it and I find it very, very, very ridiculous.

Not only Beerus and Champa have obvious previous knowledgement of Zeno, but you can meassure someone's power in Dragon Ball by feeling their Ki alone even if you have never met them before, god ki users can meassure god ki users so the excuse that they can't feel Zeno's ki wouldn't fly here.

The power jump to 12 universes buster is not that high, is only 12 times Beerus's power (at least, assuming Beerus capacity stops at 1 universe or 1 universe+)

Dragon Ball characters have been shown to easily meassure that and more. You can err by downplaying, for example when someone has their ki hidden and thus their true power can be felt, but you can't err to the wanking side, since what you feel is well what is there.

Beerus said Zeno can do that and he was not corrected by Whis, neither did anyone made even a hint he is wrong.

Not only that, we also got a visual of the 12 universes when describing Zeno's domain over it.

Let's say that Beerus is erring, the fact that he said that he can bust 12 universes "in a blink" gives a very large marging fo error for Zeno to still being able to bust 12 universes.


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't know about you, but this seems to be pretty visual to me
> 
> 
> 
> They were shown where describing Zeno's domain over the multiverse.


Thanks for showing me shit I already know.

I'm aware of how the 12 universes look like since they showed it in an earlier episode as well as the manga.

I'm talking about Zen-O wiping them out in, to quote the cat, "a blink of an eye" which we haven't seen Zen-O do. Hell, just Zen-O THREATENING the 12 universes is enough. Until then, universe level+ DB.



King Diablo said:


> Champa shitting his pants as well backs it up. Whis and Vados not denying he is in fact the the omni-king backs it up.
> All those universals showed him respect. No snarky comments when beerus told goku how strong he is.
> It's pretty obvious it's legit. Unless of course your in denial because of your bias/hatred.



Wow. Much evidence. Such feats. Come back when you got something OTHER than shit you pulled out of your ass.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 6, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Aside from Zno being multiversal or not
> 
> Do people agree that he stops at Beerus or do you guys think he solo?



I think he gets to Whis at least if Seiya can get into his Hades-injuring level of power


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Writers can say whatever they want. That never changed how we function here on this forum, and it won't change now.
> 
> Otherwise, we'd have to be tied to shit where some writers said x character with MHS feats is supersonic (and yes, I've seen post where users said interviews did such things). That's why we predominantly went by feats as the most important thing in debates.


Downgrade naruto to below wall level and subsonic since Guns>>>>>>>Ninjas according to kishimoto and "Only 5 seconds"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> I have to refute a non-existent feat? Guys, in what world is this a thing?


Sure you do, not everything has to be shown on paper when there is obvious facts supporting it.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Why are people so against accepting it. That's what I want to know. Nothing has been shown to contradict it.
> In fact otherwise has been shown. Does it hurt feelings that badly that db is now multiversal. Apparently people can't handle it.
> MoM is accepted as omnipotent and hasn't shown omniversal omnipotence but everyone accepts it.
> Of course this is db not comics so it doesn't get the same respect.


Haha wow the reaching and desperation is fucking real.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Aside from Zno being multiversal or not
> 
> Do people agree that he stops at Beerus or do you guys think he solo?



From what I've gathered in this thread, he'd stop at Whis if we truly accept Whis to be stronger than Beerus (has Super cemented that? I know BoG was retconned)


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> From what I've gathered in this thread, he'd stop at Whis if we truly accept Whis to be stronger than Beerus (has Super cemented that? I know BoG was retconned)



Super retained the OHKO karate-chop Whis does to Beerus IIRC

Reactions: Like 3


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Sure you do, not everything has to be shown on paper when there is obvious facts supporting it.



Okay here goes. Zeno isn't 12 universe multiversal.

I've refuted it. Easy on my part, and takes no work to prove.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> Super retained the OHKO karate-chop Whis does to Beerus IIRC


Okay thanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Okay here goes. Zeno isn't 12 universe multiversal.
> 
> I've refuted it. Easy on my part, and takes no work to prove.


You haven't refuted shit. Explain why beerus is lying. Explain why none of the gods refuted him. 
You can't. So sorry.


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## Unlucky13 (May 6, 2016)

How strong is Seyia tier wise when compared to other Saint Seyia characters?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

"It's too hard to wait until Zeno does something to confirm any of the claims he's gotten, so I'll just troll and try to push for something that's obviously not gonna fly."

UD was right, DB ruins everything

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> "It's too hard to wait until Zeno does something to confirm any of the claims he's gotten, so I'll just troll and try to push for something that's obviously not gonna fly."
> 
> UD was right, DB ruins everything


Partially right, anyway. It's more the ultra-hardcore "fans'" fault.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

My part is done. There's nothing to prove as Zeno doesn't even have a feat yet.

Do you know how this works, or am I certain you have some things that aren't functioning like normal, rational, human beings?


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 6, 2016)

Unlucky13 said:


> How strong is Seyia tier wise when compared to other Saint Seyia characters?



God Cloth Seiya is below Hades but can get strong enough to actually hurt him via shonen protag powers


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

Unlucky13 said:


> How strong is Seyia tier wise when compared to other Saint Seyia characters?


Somewhere in "stuck in a wheelchair" level.

Also "Saga's punching bag" tier as well considering Saga destroyed Seiya during the Sanctuary Arc.


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

Anywho, downplay all day. Super is far from over and more concrete proof could come in the next episode or will definitely show itself soon enough.
I can't wait to watch those tears start flying.


Keollyn said:


> My part is done. There's nothing to prove as Zeno doesn't even have a feat yet.
> 
> Do you know how this works, or am I certain you have some things that aren't functioning like normal, rational, human beings?


I guess MoM's obd profile needs edited. Since there's no proof for that either. Or does your brain only retain function when comic book statements are made?


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Anywho, downplay all day. Super is far from over and more concrete proof could come in the next episode or will definitely show itself soon enough.
> I can't wait to watch those tears start flying.
> 
> I guess MoM's battle wiki profile needs edited. Since there's no proof for that either. Or does your brain only retain function when comic books statements are made?



We're not denying anything from Super, salty one.

We're just waiting for confirmation and NOT JUMPING THE GUN.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

I literally read all of zero comics, but yeah, let's continue to be the most rational person in this thread.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

I bet King Diablo wears a Doom set to trigger himself every day over comic books

Reactions: Funny 3 | Dislike 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> We're not denying anything from Super, salty one.
> 
> We're just waiting for confirmation and NOT JUMPING THE GUN.


More like shitting your pants in fear that your favorite verses are about to get spanked by db. So lame you take this that seriously.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> More like shitting your pants in fear that your favorite verses are about to get spanked by db. So lame you take this that seriously.


Says the one getting all personal over people being speculative over character statements about a dude who showed up out of fucking nowhere.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## King Diablo (May 6, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> I bet King Diablo wears a Doom set to trigger himself every day over comic books


Your one of those virgins who uses buzzwords, eh.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## NightmareCinema (May 6, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> More like shitting your pants in fear that your favorite verses are about to get spanked by db. So lame you take this that seriously.


Yeah, this would be true if Dragon Ball also didn't turn out to be one of those fave verses of mine.

Keep digging, though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Just to show you how I don't even do this to series I like, I've been sitting on universal Xenogears since I originally played it in 1999. It took about 11 years later before I accepted them even being planet level. And I damn near adore the game. 

I scrutinize every massive jump in power, and I'm currently doing it to my favorite manga, and they have better implications that DBS.

I play no favorites.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I have zero idea why people are against the idea of waiting until the guy actually does something
> 
> people need to learn to keep it in their pants



I am personally not against it, but I find it to be grasping at straws and ridiculous. There is PLENTY of evidence to support that, from a visual of the 12 universes, to no one contradicting them, to being obvious by their fear that they are not going Monaka, to characters in Dragon Ball being able to correctly meassure ki, the fact that 12 universes is not an astronomical jump to the point that Beerus would miss the mark extraordinarily, to fact that even if Beerus is wrong there is a huge marging to err and still have the 12 universes thing being valid.

That being said, if you are really set on not admitting the stated level until there is feats or more reliable stated evidence, be my guest, I have confidence they will come.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Downgrade naruto to below wall level and subsonic since Guns>>>>>>>Ninjas according to kishimoto and "Only 5 seconds"



Actually that would be: Missiles >>>>>>> Ninjas.

Kishi said guns would just ruin the magic of the world, it is coming to missiles where he implied it would fuck up Narutoverse.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> That being said, if you are really set on not admitting the stated level until there is feats or more reliable stated evidence, be my guest,* I have confidence they will come.*



So do I and I'm sure a few others. The thing is, we aren't in the future yet. 

Tricky, that thing called time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Super retained the OHKO karate-chop Whis does to Beerus IIRC



What about Whis saying that he 1 punch KO's Beerus everytime he does something stupid in FnF? Was this retconned too?


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## SF latif (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> From what I've gathered in this thread, he'd stop at Whis if we truly accept Whis to be stronger than Beerus (has Super cemented that? I know BoG was retconned)


in manga beerus stated whis is stronger. anime is only implied to be.


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## Finalbeta (May 6, 2016)

SF latif said:


> in manga beerus stated whis is stronger. anime is only implied to be.


It would be hilarious if Whis is weakerthan Beerus  hope lollyama doesn't troll us like so

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SF latif (May 6, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> It would be hilarious if Whis is weakerthan Beerus  hope lollyama doesn't troll us like so


nah whis does has somewhat feats/statements that puts him above beerus like: chilling while beerus blasts goku and vegeta with ki blasts, or standing still while beerus+champa ki collateral seprates, or saying he`ll protect bulma from beerus if she keeps offering him foods.


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## Fang (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Just to show you how I don't even do this to series I like, I've been sitting on universal Xenogears since I originally played it in 1999. It took about 11 years later before I accepted them even being planet level. And I damn near adore the game.
> 
> I scrutinize every massive jump in power, and I'm currently doing it to my favorite manga, and they have better implications that DBS.
> 
> I play no favorites.



Remember the bullshit with Getbackers?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Claudio Swiss (May 6, 2016)

So instead of talking about someone with little to no feats can we argue about who can stop seiya at least can whis or vados at least plss.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Fang said:


> Remember the bullshit with Getbackers?



Ah fun times. I still can't believe how easily all that was accepted.


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## Agent9149 (May 6, 2016)

LOL

even when taking that multiverse statement is taken seriously. Zeno has zero durability, speed, and hax resistant feat and he gets taken out easily.


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## Claudio Swiss (May 6, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> Ah fun times. I still can't believe how easily all that was accepted.


Ah getbackers deception truth be told I heard about it a few years back it was amazing how Lionel got called out for his shit.


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## Blocky (May 6, 2016)

can't we just ban this Diablo dude, he's just gonna refuse to stop because he's very stubborn and retarded to do so.

his trolling is like around MVC-tier at best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Claudio Swiss (May 6, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> LOL
> 
> even when taking that multiverse statement is taken seriously. Zeno has zero durability, speed, and hax resistant feat and he gets taken out easily.


Well he gets scaled to guys like beerus and champa but other than that people need to just wait with this guy instead jumping the gun for fuck sakes.


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## Orochibuto (May 6, 2016)

Agent9149 said:


> LOL
> 
> even when taking that multiverse statement is taken seriously. Zeno has zero durability, speed, and hax resistant feat and he gets taken out easily.



No one was asking Zeno to be usable for fights, only for the stated level to be recognized.


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## Keollyn (May 6, 2016)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Ah getbackers deception truth be told I heard about it a few years back it was amazing how Lionel got called out for his shit.



In Lionel defense, no one really called into question what he was claiming until that one dude. If more people were a little less accepting, it wouldn't have gotten as far as it did.



Blocky said:


> can't we just ban this Diablo dude, he's just gonna refuse to stop because he's very stubborn and retarded to do so.
> 
> his trolling is like around MVC-tier at best.



He honestly hasn't done anything to warrant a ban, even if he has an iron thick head.


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## Descendant Of Vagabonds (May 6, 2016)

Not sure why Zeno i being mentioned since we have yet to see him do anything. Let's just wait for more confirmation on his powers.


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## Worldbreaker (May 6, 2016)

TBH I don't see Seiya outpunching Beerus

Reactions: Like 1


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## Montanz (May 7, 2016)

Wait, how do we take Beerus+Champa being stated to destroy two universes?

Do we assume it's just a large multi-galaxy feat or a legit universal+ one?

Also, how do we take Hades feats of sustaining the Hyperdimension+Elysian fields?

Is it also "just" multi-galaxy instead of universal+?


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## Juub (May 7, 2016)

While I think it's fair to wait until Zeno does something, I think it's silly to write him off because Beerus is supposedly not a credible source. You'd think a guy who destroys shit for a living and can make the universe shake with his punches would have some degree of knowledge of his boss's power. I mean hell, we aren't talking about Roshi here. We're talking about a godly being who has been around for millions of years. I think he is perfectly credible but I can understand waiting for feats.

If Zeno ends up never doing anything, I'll accept Beeru's statement. If he ends up contradicting Beerus, then I'll put him down a few notches.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (May 7, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Wait, how do we take Beerus+Champa being stated to destroy two universes?
> 
> Do we assume it's just a large multi-galaxy feat or a legit universal+ one?
> 
> ...



What? HOW THE FUCK does Beerus and Champa destroying 2 universes is MULTI GALAXY?

Who the fuck in their right mind thinks that?! Did someone actually said that? Geez! I have seen dowplaying, but this is fucking ridiculous.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xenos5 (May 7, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> lol Zeno will likely not show any multiversal feat, I mean you actually think he will destroy the 12 universes?
> 
> That's not going to happen he's a good guy not an asshole like the Gods of destruction



Well we might either get a statement from a more reliable source than scared Beerus or they'll be a villain that reaches the level of Zeno somehow.


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## Iwandesu (May 7, 2016)

Beerus vs champa is multiverse levek
Each of them is baseline universe because of that


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## Keollyn (May 7, 2016)

Juub said:


> If Zeno ends up never doing anything, I'll accept Beeru's statement.



That's... not how it works.

But at this point, it is getting tiring trying to drill this into people's head.


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Well we might either get a statement from a more reliable source than scared Beerus or they'll be a villain that reaches the level of Zeno somehow.


The last one should be more likely

Now don't get me wrong I don't mind waiting for feats or another statement, I'm just against "Beerus is not a reliable source" thing, becuase this can affect future feats or characters also

Reactions: Like 1


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## Akira1993 (May 7, 2016)

Anyways, Seiya can't do shit to super shenron and Zeno.
One is massive to feel anything from Seiya, the second has massive hype to finish him off.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

SF latif said:


> nah whis does has somewhat feats/statements that puts him above beerus like: chilling while beerus blasts goku and vegeta with ki blasts, or standing still while beerus+champa ki collateral seprates, or saying he`ll protect bulma from beerus if she keeps offering him foods.


I agree with you but Toriyama is usual to make bullshit facts of the past
I'd love if that won't be the case

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (May 7, 2016)

Of course we are going to see Zeno do shit, even if it is on a Goku suicide fight.

No one noticed Goku's face here?



Like he is measuring his strenght and excited to fight him. Goku has a boner for Monaka just becuase he thinks he oneshotted Hit.

You really think he is going to pass up the chance to fight the guy that makes Beerus looks like shit? Lol.

If we are not going to see Zeno fighting a villain, I am pretty confident we will see him fighting Goku.

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (May 7, 2016)

Kind of at the point where I wish the mods would ban any and all discussion related to DB. Like seriously, enough.

That statement about Zeno SHOULDN'T be accepted until we get at least some type of visual that makes it somewhat acceptable. This was no different than Beerus at the beginning of DB Super. We got statement after statement about Beerus being capable of wiping out the universe, all of which rang hollow until he displayed power that at least put him in that general range. Zeno is no different. He has nothing (literally, nothing) but a statement regarding his power. Stop asking people to accept a jump to multiversal based on that alone. And stop trying to use him in fights.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

Akira1993 said:


> Anyways, Seiya can't do shit to super shenron and Zeno.
> One is massive to feel anything from Seiya, the second has massive hype to finish him off.


Pretty much my thought
If anything Zeno should be legit multiversal  don't know about the dragon

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Jikuu (May 7, 2016)

Vados'll beat Seiya, cuz' she's the real Beast One!


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## Juub (May 7, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> That's... not how it works.
> 
> But at this point, it is getting tiring trying to drill this into people's head.


Then simply say we don't have evidence. Saying Beerus isn't credible just sounds stupid and reeks of desperation.

You think to be fair to every verse we should wait until he does something that would make him multiversal? Fine. But saying Beerus has no credibility is just moronic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

Juub said:


> Then simply say we don't have evidence. Saying Beerus isn't credible just sounds stupid and reeks of desperation.
> 
> You think to be fair to every verse we should wait until he does something that would make him multiversal? Fine. But saying Beerus has no credibility is just moronic.


Okay. Let's get real here.

Even though Beerus and Champa can sense the battle power of a "god", they have never seen the Multiverse being destroyed, so they have zero reference to exactly how much battle power is needed to destroy all 12 universes within the Dragon Ball Multiverse at once.

Until we either get a more reliable source (i.e. Whis and Vados) or get a Small Multiverse Level feat for the Omni-King, Beeeus's statement should not be automatically accepted.


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## Montanz (May 7, 2016)

If speed is equal I guess he stops at Beerus, unless you assume Seiya's MC plothax that allowed him to Hurt Hades is enough to K.O Beerus.

He should stop at Whis regadless, atomization isn't really much of a hax as it is bound to happen if your attacks are powerful enough. And atoms of strong characters being, well, stronger is a given.


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Even though Beerus and Champa can sense the battle power of a "god", they have never seen the Multiverse being destroyed, so they have zero reference to exactly how much battle power is needed to destroy all 12 universes within the Dragon Ball Multiverse at once.



You don't know this, you don't know what Zeno has done to demostrate their power to Bills and Champa

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

All depends how do you judge statement guys

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

But as Zeno is the ruler of the multiverse and Beerus' reaction to him

Zeno is likely several if not dozens times stronger than him

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> You don't know this, you don't know what Zeno has done to demostrate their power to Bills and Champa


We have no reason to assume, without any evidence, that the Omni-King has done anything to demonstrate his power to Beerus and Champa.


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## Juub (May 7, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Okay. Let's get real here.
> 
> Even though Beerus and Champa can sense the battle power of a "god", they have never seen the Multiverse being destroyed, so they have zero reference to exactly how much battle power is needed to destroy all 12 universes within the Dragon Ball Multiverse at once.
> 
> Until we either get a more reliable source (i.e. Whis and Vados) or get a Small Multiverse Level feat for the Omni-King, Beeeus's statement should not be automatically accepted.


Newsflash, Vados and Whis haven't seen that happen either so they have no more credibility than Beerus in that regard. Beerus is perfectly credible. Just because a bunch of battle nerds wanna downplay the power of Zeno doesn't change that fact.

Geez you'd think the guy who goes around blowing up shit for a living and capable of busting the universe would know what his damn boss is capable of but no we have a bunch of geeks arguing he doesn't know what he's talking about. Not to mention everyone agrees the dude is the ruler of the multiverse as well. So we have a God of DESTRUCTION capable of destroying an entire UNIVERSE saying his SUPERIOR can wipe out 12 universes and yet that's not credible? Whatever the case we know Zeno is far, far more powerful than Beerus or pretty much anyone else. Can't believe the level of stupidity here.

Let's settle for "We haven't seen him do it therefore we cannot give him the benefit of the doubt". Saying Beerus doesn't know what he's talking about is ludicrous.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> We have no reason to assume, without any evidence, that the Omni-King has done anything to demonstrate his power to Beerus and Champa.



The same can be said of every other character which makes every statement in DBS null and void by this logic

Reactions: Like 1


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## Juub (May 7, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> The same can be said of every other character which makes every statement in DBS null and void by this logic


Reminds me when people were saying Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga didn't know what he was talking about when he threatened to nuke the Earth. Not like we had fodders like Piccolo blasting moons apart with the flick of a wrist years prior.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 2


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

Juub said:


> Reminds me when people were saying Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga didn't know what he was talking about when he threatened to nuke the Earth. Not like we had fodders like Piccolo blasting moons apart with the flick of a wrist years prior.



Yeah I remember that it was really stupid

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
The so called "wankers" ended up hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
everyone loves. Look at the very history of this board and you'll see the truth.
Now PTSD has truly set in and Toriyama has proven all the wankers right and the downplayers wrong.
I'm sure by the end of super all these downplayers which will go to any length to discredit Toriyama and his series will
be shitting their pants in pure shock.
Also credible statements should be taken as fact if nothing discredits them. Having it be feats only is dumb.
Anywho I'm sure Toriyama will bring them feats in the end. Hell, BTE of this I'm betting on Omnipotent DBS going off of the intense cosmic trend dbs is on.
Mark my words.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Dislike 1


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## Claudio Swiss (May 7, 2016)

Like why can't people understand the concept of wait and see with zeno infact ud if your here lock this thread cause it's obvious that some people here don't understand  the wait and see approach at all and just want to jump the fucking gun


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## Claudio Swiss (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
> For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
> The so called "wankers" ended up hitting hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
> Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
> ...


U gotta be kidding meyet you wonder why people refuse to talk about db when it comes to Vs.


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## Solar (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> lion lbj


I like this. This is memeable.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
> For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
> The so called "wankers" ended up hitting hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
> Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
> ...


universal water


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Laugh now, cry later.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Laugh now, cry later.



ok

multiversal water

Reactions: Funny 2


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> universal water


Can survive energy blasts that can destroy galaxies but can't last three minutes underwater.

John Cenoku's a disappointment. SMFH


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
> For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
> The so called "wankers" ended up hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
> Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
> ...


Gemini Saga still soloes DBS regardless. Stay mad.


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## Imperator100 (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
> For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
> The so called "wankers" ended up hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
> Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
> ...


He's on to us....
#OBDIlluminati





Nah, if there was an Illuminati I certainly wouldn't be cool enough to get in.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 7, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Can survive energy blasts that can destroy galaxies but can't last three minutes underwater.
> 
> John Cenoku's a disappointment. SMFH



Aqua Necklace > SSB Goku confirmed


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Aqua Necklace > SSB Goku confirmed



Water for strongest DBS character. Final villain tier.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 7, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Water for strongest DBS character. Final villain tier.



it's up there with GT's glass


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## Imperator100 (May 7, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> it's up there with GT's glass


Someone needs to make that thread.

Water vs. Glass: The Final Battle Begins


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

Juub said:


> Newsflash, Vados and Whis haven't seen that happen either so they have no more credibility than Beerus in that regard. Beerus is perfectly credible. Just because a bunch of battle nerds wanna downplay the power of Zeno doesn't change that fact.


Whis and Vados weren't pissing their pants when they saw the Omni-King, so their statements about him, even if they never saw him destroy the Multiverse, would be far more objective than Beeeus's by far. Objective statements are far more valuable than statements made at the heat of the moment.



> Geez you'd think the guy who goes around blowing up shit for a living and capable of busting the universe would know what his damn boss is capable of but no we have a bunch of geeks arguing he doesn't know what he's talking about. Not to mention everyone agrees the dude is the ruler of the multiverse as well. So we have a God of DESTRUCTION capable of destroying an entire UNIVERSE saying his SUPERIOR can wipe out 12 universes and yet that's not credible? Whatever the case we know Zeno is far, far more powerful than Beerus or pretty much anyone else. Can't believe the level of stupidity here.
> 
> Let's settle for "We haven't seen him do it therefore we cannot give him the benefit of the doubt". Saying Beerus doesn't know what he's talking about is ludicrous.


More like "Beerus is not an infallible source, and he made that statement when he was in fear, so the statement is subject to emotional bias, so a more reliable source such as Whis would allow us to give the Omni-King the benefit of the doubt".

Nice strawman though.



Worldbreaker said:


> The same can be said of every other character which makes every statement in DBS null and void by this logic


Literally what. Character statements, being assumed fallible by default unless the character was omniscient, usually have corroborating feats and/or other character statements before they are accepted.


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Like why can't people understand the concept of wait and see with zeno infact ud if your here lock this thread cause it's obvious that some people here don't understand  the wait and see approach at all and just want to jump the fucking gun



It's not about waiting, everyone including myself agree to wait for Zeno to have feats, the thing I don't agree at all is calling Beerus a not credible source which is BS and can affect future statements and feats of the series

Reactions: Like 1


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> it's up there with GT's glass


DBGT Glass and DBS Water should form a tag team.


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Lol


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## Solar (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Lol


Update it for the multiversal feat.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Frederica Bernkastel said:


> Update it for the multiversal feat.


I would but it's not my account. Lol


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> It's not about waiting, everyone including myself agree to wait for Zeno to have feats, the thing I don't agree at all is calling Beerus a not credible source which is BS and can affect future statements and feats of the series


Because Beerus can be prone to misdirection and lying.

The shit he stated about Monaka ring any bells to you?

And statements are taken by the OBD on a case-by-case basis so do calm down. It's not going to affect future statements from Dragon Ball.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Because Beerus can be prone to misdirection and lying.
> 
> The shit he stated about Monaka ring any bells to you?
> 
> And statements are taken by the OBD on a case-by-case basis so do calm down. It's not going to affect future statements from Dragon Ball.


They put in one joke and now Beerus is a complete and total liar. Funny.
Keep dem downplays a comen.


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## Solar (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> I would but it's not my account. Lol


Do it yourself.


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## NightmareCinema (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> They put in one joke and now Beerus is a complete and total liar. Funny.
> Keep dem downplays a comen.


>Joke
>He outright lied to Goku and Vegeta

Yeah, sure. Totally downplay.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> >Joke
> >He outright lied to Goku and Vegeta
> 
> Yeah, sure. Totally downplay.


Because of nipple king Toriyama can't explain shit about his universe through Beerus. Funny.



Frederica Bernkastel said:


> Do it yourself.


Too lazy to give a shit about that. Maybe after the series is over.


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## Orochibuto (May 7, 2016)

I am more worried about the fact that apparently there is someone who think Beerus and Champa destroying 2 universes is large multi galactic or make them large multi galactic.

That is "Itachi solos Galactus" tier of idiocy.


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## Montanz (May 7, 2016)

What a shitty thread.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I am more worried about the fact that apparently there is someone who think Beerus and Champa destroying 2 universes is large multi galactic or make them large multi galactic.
> 
> That is "Itachi solos Galactus" tier of idiocy.


downplay, downplay, downplay, downplay


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> downplay, downplay, downplay, downplay



It's not "downplay" if it's simply waiting for verification of a character statement.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> It's not "downplay" if it's simply waiting for verification of a character statement.


The statement already has verification. Champa was scared as well. Neither Whis nor Vados denied what beerus said and they all showed respect to the omni-king.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Hell, even the old Kai confirmed it.


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## God Movement (May 7, 2016)

L M A O


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Also Whis did confirm it. Whis flat out stated is it ok to keep looking down on him from this high spot and then they both flew down.


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## Orochibuto (May 7, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> It's not "downplay" if it's simply waiting for verification of a character statement.



Beerus and Champa being large multi galactic is downplay and of the kind so stupid it shoudlnt even be debatable.

This is "Itachi solos Galactus" level of idiocy.

Only that this time to the downplay side rather than the wanking side.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

We know what beerus stated was true because even Whis didn't want to disrespect the omni-king. Same with vados and champa they all flew down to show respect. Along with all the Kai.

This wouldn't be done if omni-king was some gag character and beerus was lying.


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## SkylineGTR (May 7, 2016)

Loling hard at glass vs water.

Let's be real though, ultimate villain will be 40 tons that crushes Zeno and DBS multiverse


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## almanar (May 7, 2016)

This is still continue? You are really something guys.. My cups was empty long ago, and not intent to fill it. But you guys still fill yours and add with more sake to enjoy this nowhere showthread . ahh what a life..


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## Tonathan100 (May 7, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> The statement already has verification. Champa was scared as well.


Not proof. Neither have a reference to exactly how much battle power is needed to destroy the multiverse.



> Neither Whis nor Vados denied what beerus said


Maybe because it wasn't important for them to do so.

If a person said that, even though he has no feats for that tier of power, that "I could rend the very fabric of existence to ash with but a tap of my finger!", and other people don't contradict him (but don't say any corroborating statements), does that automatically make the statement non-hyperbolic? No, it does not.

By that logic, nearly all hyperboles made in Touhou are actually true because nobody bothers to contradict them.

Literally the only thing supporting Omni-King being Small Multiverse Level is Whis and Vados being Universe Level++.



> and they all showed respect to the omni-king.


Which isn't at all relevant.



> Also Whis did confirm it. Whis flat out stated is it ok to keep looking down on him from this high spot and then they both flew down.


Not a confirmation of power, but a confirmation of political rank. It would be bad to show disrespect to the ruler of all that is, even if the ruler is rather weak.



Orochibuto said:


> Beerus and Champa being large multi galactic is downplay and of the kind so stupid it shoudlnt even be debatable.
> 
> This is "Itachi solos Galactus" level of idiocy.
> 
> Only that this time to the downplay side rather than the wanking side.


I was talking about the Small Multiverse Level Omni-King statement.


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I am more worried about the fact that apparently there is someone who think Beerus and Champa destroying 2 universes is large multi galactic or make them large multi galactic.
> 
> That is "Itachi solos Galactus" tier of idiocy.



I don't see nothing wrong with that

I'm talking about Itachi soloing Galactus


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

Omg what's happening there

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Worldbreaker (May 7, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Because Beerus can be prone to misdirection and lying.
> 
> The shit he stated about Monaka ring any bells to you?



Completely different situation and you know it


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## Imperator100 (May 7, 2016)

Peter Pan said:


> Omg what's happening there


People went off-topic over minutiae that's unimportant for the moment. Then they argued about it for pages on end as is our way. Also a bunch of memes were born.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

Only possible thing to do is to consider Beerus' feat against Champa and see if it's enough to kill Seiya

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Finalbeta (May 7, 2016)

Of course you have a bunch of stronger characters than him too to help

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blocky (May 7, 2016)

KD, Stop acting like as if DB is gonna be the most powerful anime verse in the world.

Just keep saying that were downplaying it, after all you're no different from those DB wankers back in 2007-9.


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## Nevermind (May 7, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Super retained the OHKO karate-chop Whis does to Beerus IIRC



Can't recall this happening, in DBS but Beerus did say Whis was his teacher so it's pretty heavily implied.

I have a long way to catch up, regardless.



Juub said:


> Newsflash, Vados and Whis haven't seen that happen either so they have no more credibility than Beerus in that regard.



On this, I'd actually agree. Just because Vados and Whis are most credible doesn't mean they're infallible.



King Diablo said:


> To be fair we have to take the very foundation of the OBD into account.
> For years and years they have downplayed db/z only to have super come along and prove them essentially incorrect in practically everything they ever believed in.
> The so called "wankers" ended up hitting the nail on the head more than they could have ever imagined.
> Now their worst nightmare has come to fruition. They'll say anything in their power to downplay while claiming dbz is a beloved franchise that
> ...



It was me, Chaos, Brohan (wherever the fuck he is now), and Cable that started to showcase that Dragon Ball was more powerful than was originally thought years ago, but we did it by putting together meticulous cases, and as new data came out since the 2013 additions to the series, we readjusted.

The "wankers" were saying what they say before this new data. It isn't wank to readjust to new data. So no, the "wankers" from MvC were always overshooting their mark. The fact that you actually think that any of the old guard OBD regulars are having "nightmares" says more about you than it does about them. To make these statements, you'd actually have to be sitting there at your computer and imagining this. It's not so hard for someone to see you with gleeful sparkles in your eyes, grinning ear to ear and howling at the moon that "now those OBD people will get what's coming to them!" This in regards to an animated cartoon.

King Diablo, I'll give you this. You have a talent for drawing attention. It can be put to better use than sitting in a swivel chair on your computer and being gleeful about something you had no part in (the "upgrades" in Dragon Ball Super). Use this shit to promote a product or something.

It's a waste of talent.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> ok
> 
> multiversal water



With multiversal toast. Remember.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


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## SF latif (May 7, 2016)

i kinda hate where this is going, calling beerus "uncredible" doesn`t make sense when he lived millions of years and a have a good knowlagde of the universe (if not much as whis). i don`t mind waiting for a visual (and more confirmation on zeno) but this is just ridiculous. we should just close this thread.


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Nevermind said:


> Can't recall this happening, in DBS but Beerus did say Whis was his teacher so it's pretty heavily implied.
> 
> I have a long way to catch up, regardless.
> 
> ...


I remember you downplaying the hardest. Hell, you had an account on MvC that you downplayed on as well.
Also the fact that you even responded to me shows how much I rustled your jimbobs. Truth hurts doesn't it.

Reactions: Dislike 3


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## Blocky (May 7, 2016)

This thread has gone to nowhere land now.

This really needs to be closed


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## Solar (May 7, 2016)

Blocky said:


> This thread has gone to nowhere land now.
> 
> This really needs to be closed



This is the most entertaining this forum has been in years. It should not be closed. In fact, I bet everyone is secretly relieved to have some life flowing at least in one thread.


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## Blocky (May 7, 2016)

maybe, if it's worth a shitstorm to happen


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Also I fucking love how NM comes in here like he's such a fucking boss who lulz at the silly kids who compares/debates powers of cartoons.
Keep in mind this is fucking nevermind. Oh the irony is real!!!!!!!

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## Nep Heart (May 7, 2016)

The sheer stubborness and hostility over neysayers trying to remain objective is just absurd, which in actuality is just the opposers in this thread simply going "maybe Dragon Ball is multiverse level, but wait until substantial proof finally arrives". What's next? Death threats over powerlevel hype being questioned. It almost makes Endless Mike and most certainly Ultimate Deathsaurus seem justified on their DB opposition. The wank really smells awful in this thread and I feel embarrassed to be  Dragon Ball fan because of this.

 I normally am not fond of going to NF on mobile, even if I don't have a PC anymore at the moment, but the wank in this thread is just cringeworthy enough to temporarily bring me back from the dead just to give my two cents here.

Btw, Dragon Ball will still get wrecked by Saint Seiya even if it becomes multiversal because its hax and resistances to it is terrible even by Herald Level standards.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Nevermind (May 7, 2016)

Wow. A wild Ampchu appears! Get in the convo you bastard. Is that why you've been inactifagging?



Frederica Bernkastel said:


> This is the most entertaining this forum has been in years. It should not be closed. In fact, I bet everyone is secretly relieved to have some life flowing at least in one thread.



Agreed. It reminds me of all those shitstorms in 2012. It was an active year, even though we all thought it was terrible at the time.



King Diablo said:


> Also I fucking love how NM comes in here like he's such a fucking boss who lulz at the silly kids who compares/debates powers of cartoons.
> Keep in mind this is fucking nevermind. Oh the irony is real!!!!!!!



It's easy to imagine King Diablo dripping bitterness at the type of each very fastly-paced keystroke. The  face you gave me, the threepeat of the word "fucking" in the same sentence, and the "!!!!!!!" give it away the most.

This is my new name for you. Bitter Diablo.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Nep Heart (May 7, 2016)

Diablo is also a name of a character from a poor MK rip-off that became obscure with good reason. Kinda fits King Diablo here actually

Reactions: Like 2


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## King Diablo (May 7, 2016)

Nevermind said:


> Wow. A wild Ampchu appears! Get in the convo you bastard. Is that why you've been inactifagging?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cute, school yard names. He doesn't even deny what I said though.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> Btw, Dragon Ball will still get wrecked by Saint Seiya even if it becomes multiversal because its hax and resistances to it is terrible even by Herald Level standards.



What the fuck?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Thats not remotely untrue so i dont see the reason for questioning

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

SS has no multiversals, at least not yet.

The moment DB gets a legit, usable multiversal, the moment a lot of SS characters are going to get their face caved in.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> SS has no multiversals, at least not yet.
> 
> The moment DB gets a legit, usable multiversal, the moment a lot of SS characters are going to get their face caved in.


Hax still fucks Dragon Ball over.

You keep focusing too much on biggatons that you fail to see other methods that Saint Seiya can win (spatial BFR, space-time fuckery, soulfuck, massive speed advantage, mindfuck, incorporeal beings like Cronus, etc.).

Ampchu's absolutely correct in that regard.


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> SS has no multiversals, at least not yet.
> 
> The moment DB gets a legit, usable multiversal, the moment a lot of SS characters are going to get their face caved in.


No not at all 
Ss may lack dc on multiverse level
But has many characters with multiversal range and hax to make use that completely ignore dura


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

Except for the fact DB is awful at dealing with broken powers and still horribly crippled with a speed disadvantage.


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

I still stand by my previous statement of Deathmask being able to fuck Dragon Ball over all by his lonesome.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jackk (May 8, 2016)

And who knows... maybe Kurumada will start doing a better job with SS ND (still ongoing) and release more often etc

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

Also I seem to recall both Pontus and Chronos showing influences between multiple universes. At least with Chronos it was with knowledge of all timelines or something in ND and Pontus exerting pressure from Tartarus into Coeus' Dunamis, his own private universe in Episode G.


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> No not at all
> Ss may lack dc on multiverse level
> But has many characters with multiversal range and hax to make use that completely ignore dura



Who in SS has shown multiversal range? You mean how Thanatos affected people in Earth despite being in Elysium?



Fang said:


> Also I seem to recall both Pontus and Chronos showing influences between multiple universes. At least with Chronos it was with knowledge of all timelines or something in ND and Pontus exerting pressure from Tartarus into Coeus' Dunamis, his own private universe in Episode G.



Is Episode G canon? Because as far as I know it has never been confirmed to be such.


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

Episode G is canon

Its not 2009, this is getting old


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Is Episode G canon? Because as far as I know it has never been confirmed to be such.



It's supervised by Kurumada in order for it to not stray from the spirit of the series. Megumu Okada said as much.

It's canon and is an official prequel to the original manga. Nothing has contradicted it so far as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> It's supervised by Kurumada in order for it to not stray from the spirit of the series. Megumu Okada said as much.
> 
> It's canon and is an official prequel to the original manga. Nothing has contradicted it so far as well.



Has it been actually called officialy an OFFICIAL prequel for the manga or is a case of "duh its obvious"?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (May 8, 2016)

Episode G is a canon prequel

Reactions: Like 2


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Has it been actually called officialy an OFFICIAL prequel for the manga or is a case of "duh its obvious"?


Both. Stated in an interview with Okada or Kurumada back then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Who in SS has shown multiversal range? You mean how Thanatos affected people in Earth despite being in Elysium?


Or greatest eclipse that happened from fucking elysium when hades had no body but yeah i do


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Or fuck 
Chronos literally controls time on infinite timelines 
You may as well call lost canvas an alternative universe with how open minded ep g assassination and ND are being to some short of "EU" tbh


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

ITT: Orochibuto asks the same questions he's asked countless times before


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

And while we are at that Alternative timelines are a thing on lost canvas cannon in itself with different possibilities for the final showdown against hades  (including different GS failing at that)
And both kronos and sealed kairos mess with them for shit and giggles


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

I was not saying that DB could solo SS, but if we really get legit multiversals, some SS are going to be in trouble.

It will be hillarious though, if due hax alone we get superior characters getting owned while way weaker character can defeat t those characters.

If Chronos does control infinite timelines, I might accept him as the only multiversal in SS (yet) in DC.


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

Multiversal is anyone or anything that can extend their influence, power, or range from more then one universe. This would apply to Pontus as well, and via powerscaling Cronos, Zeus, the other Primordial Gods, and Gaia.


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## Keollyn (May 8, 2016)

Juub said:


> Then simply say we don't have evidence. Saying Beerus isn't credible just sounds stupid and reeks of desperation.
> 
> You think to be fair to every verse we should wait until he does something that would make him multiversal? Fine. But saying Beerus has no credibility is just moronic.



What the hell are you on about? Who mentioned anything about credibility?

This is a debate forum. You don't debate based on belief, you debate based on fact. Like it is in every other types of debates. If Zeno doesn't show anything, then believing Beerus statement is inane.


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Multiversal range=/=multiversal dc
Cronos would be the nearer to dc we have in verse
But all the other feats i showed apply to multiversal range just fine


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## Iwandesu (May 8, 2016)

Hell fooder bronze saints sent seiya a cosmo message through the multiverse
Even if that was them tapping 7th sense telepathes of gs should be able to replicate
Let alone virgo "i will fight you through the infinite incarnations" shaka


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## ebonyLogic (May 8, 2016)

I remember a while back Okada being very active on twitter, even answering if saints can destroy galaxies, pity no one asked him about the canon.


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## Toaa (May 8, 2016)

This thread.....linley comes and kill everyone.


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## King Diablo (May 8, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Hax still fucks Dragon Ball over.
> 
> You keep focusing too much on biggatons that you fail to see other methods that Saint Seiya can win (spatial BFR, space-time fuckery, soulfuck, massive speed advantage, mindfuck, incorporeal beings like Cronus, etc.).
> 
> Ampchu's absolutely correct in that regard.


Hax doesn't do shit to db as proven by characters being able to resist reality warping wish granting dragons that can bring whole planets of people back to life.
We already know Zarama created the super dragon balls so his hax levels will be especially off the charts.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

King Diablo said:


> Hax doesn't do shit to db as proven by characters being able to resist reality warping wish granting dragons that can bring whole planets of people back to life.
> We already know Zarama created the super dragon balls so his hax levels will be especially off the charts.


This shit again? None of the dragons have shown reality warping a.k.a. DB has no resistance to space-time hax. Or soulhax/mindhax.

Also, the hax "resistance" that DB has at the moment is completely garbage tier. Not helping them for shit.

Your salt levels are definitely off the charts.


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## Worldbreaker (May 8, 2016)

That big ass dragon will now be a huge problem for someone to solo DB


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## Toaa (May 8, 2016)

Demonbane still wins.


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## Orochibuto (May 8, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> This shit again? None of the dragons have shown reality warping a.k.a. DB has no resistance to space-time hax. Or soulhax/mindhax.
> 
> Also, the hax "resistance" that DB has at the moment is completely garbage tier. Not helping them for shit.
> 
> Your salt levels are definitely off the charts.



Super Shenron did, not only did he restored Earth, but had humans there retroactively have the exact same culture as universe 7 so Champa gets to eat their food.

That is reality warping.


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## Blocky (May 8, 2016)

Man, some of this wank really makes me think we're in a spacebattles site


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## Imperator100 (May 8, 2016)

Blocky said:


> Man, some of this wank really makes me think we're in a spacebattles site


You wanted more activity, this is what you get.


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## Blocky (May 8, 2016)

Imperator100 said:


> You wanted more activity, this is what you get.


but i never said that


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## Nep Heart (May 8, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> Also, the hax "resistance" that DB has at the moment is completely garbage tier. Not helping them for shit.



 I think Crimson Dragoon's aforementioned suggestion of drowning is considered too hax by DB standards.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tonathan100 (May 8, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> I think Crimson Dragoon's aforementioned suggestion of drowning is considered too hax by DB standards.


My 12-year-old brother can swim just fine.

My younger brother is thus more powerful than Son Goku.


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## SF latif (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Has it been actually called officialy an OFFICIAL prequel for the manga or is a case of "duh its obvious"?


here


and @iwandesu what about titan cronus stating he`ll destroy all of time in past,present, and future? wouldn`t that give him Multiverse DC


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## Fang (May 8, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Super Shenron did, not only did he restored Earth, but had humans there retroactively have the exact same culture as universe 7 so Champa gets to eat their food.
> 
> That is reality warping.



If it's the way you're describing it then that's not reality warping.


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## KaiserWombat (May 8, 2016)

...can I just treat this topic as a fever dream and wake up now by locking it in the bowels of Hell?

I mean, it's gone 12 fucking pages with zero resolution in sight

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NightmareCinema (May 8, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> I think Crimson Dragoon's aforementioned suggestion of drowning is considered too hax by DB standards.


It is. Water is going to be the final villain of DBS, man.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Nep Heart (May 8, 2016)

I would be pleased to have you grace your mod powers in ending this abomination, Wombat. The topic derailed into many related divergent sub-topics pages ago as is.


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## Blocky (May 8, 2016)

KaiserWombat said:


> ...can I just treat this topic as a fever dream and wake up now by locking it in the bowels of Hell?
> 
> I mean, it's gone 12 fucking pages with zero resolution in sight



wake us up man, were trapped in this nightmare


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## Tonathan100 (May 8, 2016)

KaiserWombat said:


> ...can I just treat this topic as a fever dream and wake up now by locking it in the bowels of Hell?
> 
> I mean, it's gone 12 fucking pages with zero resolution in sight


You can lock this thread.


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