# HxH:  Hisoka vs. Zeno



## Insipidipity (Nov 30, 2005)

Um...yea, I've only seen up to the end of the first OVA so I don't know if this happened, anyways, Silva said he could obviously beat Kururo and Hisoka was all hyped up to fight Kururo, so it seems only natural that he should be his next opponent.  Plus he was somewhat a part of the Genei Ryodan which Zeno said wasn't worth the money to fight.

So lets say Hisoka pays a ton of money to have Silva try to kill him.

ready...get set...GO!


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## trinty (Nov 30, 2005)

no, silva would kick his ass eneways.


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## Insipidipity (Nov 30, 2005)

Oh sorry, I meant Zeno, the grandfather.  I got the names switched around in my head.


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## Raistlin-sama (Nov 30, 2005)

This is a hard one. I think it may go to Hisoka, considering that he somehow seems to have more tricks up his sleeve then Silva. Also, Silva didn't say that he could obviously beat Kuroro... As I understood the fight, Kururo could most likely have taken any of the two, one-on-one, but was in no way able to take both of them. Also this causes me to say Hisoka, because I believe Hisoka have a power that is equal to, or even higher, then Kuroro. MInd you I have not read the latest manga, so there may have come more clearance on the Kururo VS Hisoka since the last i read.

EDIT: Zeno, only said that jokingly. Or rather he started saying that he would win, but then turned it around saying "But if you're really determined to kill me that's another story". At least he did in the anime, although I cannot check up on the manga right now (since I don't have from that far back).


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## Insipidipity (Nov 30, 2005)

Saying something jokingly is hard to distinguish from saying something that you find obvious.  If he truly thought it was that obvious, of course he would've had a light hearted tone to it, similar to when you explain something to a kid.

I'm not sure if he really could take either 1 of them, seems to me, even though they were serious, they weren't fighting at full strength since he wasn't their true target(which didn't really make sense to me why they were fighting in the first place)


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## ~ Masamune ~ (Nov 30, 2005)

Silva wins,because his nen abilities surpass that of Hisoka. Even kuroro wanted that ability and it almost costed him his life.


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## silent_speech (Nov 30, 2005)

Zeno would win, because I had the impression that both Zeno and Silva were just playing with Kuroro (they didn't really needed to fight after all, and i'm thinking they just wanted to pass the time).


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## Death Fog (Nov 30, 2005)

The thing about the Kuroro vs Zeno/Silva fight is, all of them werent really serious all throughout the match. Kuroro was just trying to steal their abilities and Zeno/Silva seemed to know that Illumi had a contract with Kuroro to kill the 10 Godfathers who were Zeno and Silva's clients. So they though that its useless to kill Kuroro when there'll be nobody to pay them anymore. And knowing the Zoldicks, theyre a strictly business-minded people. So we cant really use that fight to judge who wins between Hisoka and Zeno. As for the fight itself, going from what weve seen of them, Im definitely going for Hisoka. Zeno may be analytical but I honestly dont think it would be enough to overcome Hisoka's superb trickyness and cunning. I mean this is a guy who tricked an entire group of ELITE Nen-users(including Kuroro himself) into believing that he's one of them *for years* when in reality he's a fake member. 

Plus Hisoka's Bungee Gum and Deceitful Texture are ingenius abilities. Especially his Bungee Gum ability. It may look like a ridiculously simple ability but its one of the deadliest abilities in HxH IMO because if you think about it there's so many ways, and I mean SO MANY ways, on how to use it on an opponent. One of its applications is, you have to *completely* avoid being touched by him because if he touches you even just once, his Bungee Gum is already attached to you. Using Gyo is completely useless, you have to completely avoid being touched by him. And that, my friends, is a difficult thing to do, Elite Nen-User or not. Not to mention that he seems to be an excellent hand to hand combatant.

Zeno's dragon ability is a tough ability to deal with and Hisoka will have problems in handling them but I have confidence that he'll figure out a way to overcome it. Also remember, Zeno's dragon ability may be a long range ability, but so is Hisoka's bungee gum.


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## Kasumi 霞 (Dec 1, 2005)

I guess I might go with Zeno since he has years of experience on him and he seems to know his stuff but Hisoka is pretty sly himself... but still Zeno.


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## Freija (Dec 1, 2005)

Zeno said he would kick his ass 1 on 1 if he didn't try to kill him. i say Hisoka.

wasn't worth the money to fight, meant that it wasn't enough for that level of strength, thats the reason he told his kids never to get involved with them,


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## Danchou (Dec 1, 2005)

I assumed you were talking about Zeno. Well i think that Kuroro was holding his own against two of the worlds most deadly assasins. And neither sides were serious.

About the matchup: Zeno is very strong and is good at analyzing a situation. Unlike many others he would not be overwhelmed by Hisoka's off-balance behaviour. He also has the nendragon ability with which he can keep Hisoka on a distance. Hisoka has shown to be very sly and his hatsu is quite impressive.

Both are in the same tier. Judging on what we've seen i would give the edge to Zeno, but that's only because we haven't seen enough of Hisoka's power. That's due to the fact that i didn't see him fight worthy opponents and because he tends to hide his strength.


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## Viciousness (Dec 1, 2005)

silent_speech said:
			
		

> Zeno would win, because I had the impression that both Zeno and Silva were just playing with Kuroro (they didn't really needed to fight after all, and i'm thinking they just wanted to pass the time).



Zeno would win but Silva wouldnt. Silva nearly got killed by that poison and seemed to think it was a desperate situation in the fight. Didnt he also have a flashback to himself fighting Kuroro once before and he got his ass whooped? I think it was manga only.

Silva would probably lose to Hisoka too since Hisoka thinks he can take Kuroro. Well it would probably be close though. Silva is cool dont get me wrong but he didnt seem to be on Kuroro's level.


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## silent_speech (Dec 1, 2005)

Damn, now i wanna see Hisoka fight a really WORTHY opponent seriously... then we can really measure his true fighting ability. 

And as for Zeno, I guess I'll go with the manga thing that old people are usually uber, and assume that Zeno=uber nen user that can probably pwn anybody if he fights seriously, hehe.


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## Quoll (Dec 1, 2005)

Probably a close fight, but Zeno would win. He has the experience edge and he's shown himself to be quite perceptive when it comes to his opponents tricks. He made figuring out Kuroro's Nen ability look easy.


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## Death Fog (Dec 1, 2005)

I dont know about the Experience factor. Zeno maybe alot older than Hisoka but Zeno _might_ not be exactly your typical old guy who has countless and countless of fights under his belt. Remember people, he doesnt fight for fun, he doesnt do it for pleasure. Its all about business for him. He said it himself, he'll never risk his life if there's no profit to gain from it. For him a fight is directly connected to business.

While Hisoka on the otherhand is a bloodthirsty maniac who wants to fight every single strong opponent out there. I mean this guy fights on almost a daily basis. If you dont see him in the streets looking for a fight, he's most likely in the Celestial Tower... fighting.

So I dont think experience would be much of a factor here.


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## Quoll (Dec 2, 2005)

Death Fog said:
			
		

> I dont know about the Experience factor. Zeno maybe alot older than Hisoka but Zeno _might_ not be exactly your typical old guy who has countless and countless of fights under his belt. Remember people, he doesnt fight for fun, he doesnt do it for pleasure. Its all about business for him. He said it himself, he'll never risk his life if there's no profit to gain from it. For him a fight is directly connected to business.
> 
> While Hisoka on the otherhand is a bloodthirsty maniac who wants to fight every single strong opponent out there. I mean this guy fights on almost a daily basis. If you dont see him in the streets looking for a fight, he's most likely in the Celestial Tower... fighting.
> 
> So I dont think experience would be much of a factor here.



I'd say its still a factor. From what we saw of celestial tower Hisoka never had an opponent close to his level there. Zeno has faced people of his level, at least on occasion.


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## Death Fog (Dec 2, 2005)

We cant say for a fact that Hisoka never battled someone on his level on the Celestial Tower. Just because we didnt see it doesnt mean there never was one. Hisoka isnt exactly a newbie in Celestial Tower. He's already been fighting there for a long time now. And thats only the Celestial Tower, he fights outside of it too. So yeah, Im pretty sure Hisoka has fought many people on his level before. I mean that kind of people is what he's after for after all, isnt it? Not to mention that he was a member of the Ryodan, the most feared criminal organization in the world, for years. Thats another experience points for him. 

Weve seen Zeno fight someone on his level, but thats it. If we look at their way of life, its not really that easy to say that Zeno has more experience. Zeno fights for the money. No money, no fighting/assasinating. Its all business for him, nothing else. While for Hisoka, fighting is his life. He's so addicted to it that he even gets an erection whenever he encounters a strong opponent .


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## Quoll (Dec 2, 2005)

Death Fog said:
			
		

> While for Hisoka, fighting is his life. He's so addicted to it that he even gets an erection whenever he encounters a strong opponent .



You just made me flashback to him thrusting his hips in the air while thinking about Gon or Kurapica. Forgot which but I think it was Gon.


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## Death Fog (Dec 2, 2005)

Oops. Sorry about that. I didnt mean to pollute your mind with such a disturbing scene. I hope you can sleep well tonight


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## Quoll (Dec 2, 2005)

Death Fog said:
			
		

> Oops. Sorry about that. I didnt mean to pollute your mind with such a disturbing scene. I hope you can sleep well tonight



LOL. I'll try.


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## Danchou (Dec 2, 2005)

Death Fog said:
			
		

> I dont know about the Experience factor. Zeno maybe alot older than Hisoka but Zeno _might_ not be exactly your typical old guy who has countless and countless of fights under his belt.


 You are aware that Zeno's outfit literally reads "one kill a day"? 

I think it's safe to assume he fights more often than Hisoka does.


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## Death Fog (Dec 2, 2005)

Im completely aware of that, but a kill doesnt necessarily relate to a fight. You are also aware that Zeno is an assassin first before anything else? What he mainly does is sneak up on people and kill them. He doesnt always fight them face to face. Heck, who's to say that the people he kills are only nen-users and not also those normal people who are political figures and such?


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## Danchou (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm sure that they would leave normal people to Karuto, Milluki, Illumi and the others. When trying to wipe out the Genei Ryodan they used the best they had. Zeno and Silva. I'm guessing they will do the toughest assasination jobs including direct confrontations with prime nen-users. 

Besides that, form the way they operate it seems like they are used to fightng the pinnacle of nen-users (like Kuroro), altough they did complain that the money wasn't worth the effort this time.

Zeno's experience tells a lot. Just look at the way he accuratly analyzed Kuroro with the little information he was given.

btw:  nice ava you have. Do you happen to have the picture without the text?


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 3, 2005)

Well i have to give it to Hisoka hands down. Why? 

Well based on Hisoka character he is obessed with fighting and likes a challenge, but I think he not sucidal, so if kuroro was so far out of his range of victory he wouldn't want to fight him. 

Kuroro toke on Zeno and silva at once, although he was lossing and would have. However from that fight it looks like silva is weaker then Zeno.. also the old man is usually the most badass in animes. 

Therefore silva is weaker then kuroro who Hisoka doesn't mind fighting. So at the very least hisoka should be even with sliva. 

All that left is to compare techniques... lol but since we've seen very little from sliva and I doubt we've seen Hisoka in his prime .. it's kind of an unknown but.. Hisoka wins. 

THIS IS WHY- Hisoka has senses that exceed even the greatest of hunters. This is proven when nobunga and makki are on the tree in greed island and kurata is hiding using perfect zetsu... but Hisoka sensed her anyway. He says it's because he was excited from the whole razor and Gon thing. 

-Hisoka senses surpass even the know limitations of hunters, he is a beast and would defeat sliva, in a tough fight, only because sliva is a freakin badass. 

*--ALSO is anyone else really pissed of that that whole thing with hisoka during the last part of the hunter exam in the forest, where he had to contain his urge to kill and he was all psycho hasn't been explained yet. I wanna know about Hisoka past and what the *uck he is. The h x h manga needs to finish with this stupid as ant saga. *


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## Death Fog (Dec 3, 2005)

Kurapica said:
			
		

> I'm sure that they would leave normal people to Karuto, Milluki, Illumi and the others. When trying to wipe out the Genei Ryodan they used the best they had. Zeno and Silva. I'm guessing they will do the toughest assasination jobs including direct confrontations with prime nen-users.
> 
> Besides that, form the way they operate it seems like they are used to fightng the pinnacle of nen-users (like Kuroro), altough they did complain that the money wasn't worth the effort this time.



But that's still assassinating. There's no reason to believe that every assasination he did in his whole lifetime are all done in direct confrontation. Its most likely that majority of his assasinations are done by sneaking or other things instead of direct confrontations. I mean instead of fighting Kuroro alone and finish him, he told Silva to finish Kuroro once he(Zeno) has a hold on Kuroro. Looking at that attitude, he prefers to use the best possible method in killing his opponent. Meaning that fighting directly and/or on 1 on 1 is out of the question if there's a better way to kill a target. That's certainly a minus on his experience when it comes to direct confrontations.

Plus there's always the fact of him not risking his life if there's no money involved. That tells alot. 



			
				Kurapica said:
			
		

> Zeno's experience tells a lot. Just look at the way he accuratly analyzed Kuroro with the little information he was given.



Yes that was impressive. But Hisoka did the same thing against Kastro. And yes, I know that Kastro is weak but his ability is one of those abilities thats very hard to figure out. Killua himself said that even professional hunters would have a very hard time figuring out Kastro's ability. But Hisoka found it out in no time. 

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying that Hisoka has more experience than Zeno. I just think that if Zeno really does have more experience that Hisoka, its only a bit which i think wouldn't matter much in this fight.



			
				Kurapica said:
			
		

> btw:  nice ava you have. Do you happen to have the picture without the text?



Tnx. The text was already there. I found it on some HxH site. I can give you the link to the site if you want to change your avatar. The avatars there are really nice. Although most of it are Gon, Killua, Kurapica and Leorio avatars. Feitan is the only Ryodan avatar thats there.  

Oh and shika, the thread starter was actually talking about Hisoka vs Zeno, not Silva.


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## Insipidipity (Dec 3, 2005)

I know its not technically experience, but Silva's family does intense training.  Remember their front door?  PreNen, Killua alone could move like 5 tons.  While he was weaker than Hisoka, he's like...10.  Zeno might be old, but he still seems strong, and Nen can prevent old age from really affecting him.


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## Death Fog (Dec 3, 2005)

Of course Zeno is strong. There's no denying that. He's one of the strongest characters we have seen so far in HxH. As Kurapica said earlier, Hisoka and Zeno are in the same tier of power and I agree with that. Its just that maybe Zeno is not as much experienced as people would like to think. And also, I just think Hisoka is just a bit stronger.


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## Quoll (Dec 4, 2005)

shika shika boo said:
			
		

> Kuroro toke on Zeno and silva at once, although he was lossing and would have. However from that fight it looks like silva is weaker then Zeno.. also the old man is usually the most badass in animes.
> 
> Therefore silva is weaker then kuroro who Hisoka doesn't mind fighting. So at the very least hisoka should be even with sliva.



To me it seemed more like Silva is a stronger attacker but Zeno is a much better strategizer. Silva seemed to plan on using brute force to beat Kuroro(Quoll as I think of em ) while Zeno, on the other hand, was reading his opponents fighting style, and seeing that Silva's tactic was foolish.



			
				shika shika boo said:
			
		

> *--ALSO is anyone else really pissed of that that whole thing with hisoka during the last part of the hunter exam in the forest, where he had to contain his urge to kill and he was all psycho hasn't been explained yet. I wanna know about Hisoka past and what the *uck he is. The h x h manga needs to finish with this stupid as ant saga. *



I figured it was just them showing how much Hisoka loves killing.


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## Danchou (Dec 4, 2005)

Death Fog said:
			
		

> Yes that was impressive. But Hisoka did the same thing against Kastro. And yes, I know that Kastro is weak but his ability is one of those abilities thats very hard to figure out. Killua himself said that even professional hunters would have a very hard time figuring out Kastro's ability. But Hisoka found it out in no time. ..
> 
> Dont get me wrong. Im not saying that Hisoka has more experience than Zeno. I just think that if Zeno really does have more experience that Hisoka, its only a bit which i think wouldn't matter much in this fight...
> ..
> Tnx. The text was already there. I found it on some HxH site. I can give you the link to the site if you want to change your avatar. The avatars there are really nice. Although most of it are Gon, Killua, Kurapica and Leorio avatars. Feitan is the only Ryodan avatar thats there.


Hm, i have to agree that Hisoka is also good at analyzing his opponent. And i agree that experience wouldn't matter a lot, since they are both nen experts. A match between Hisoka and Silva could go any way. It's just too bad that the people who Hisoka has fought until now weren't around his level. But that may change when we'll see the match between Kuroro and Hisoka. 

offtopic: i'd like to have the link to that hxh site. I need a new avy.


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## lekki (Dec 4, 2005)

Nobunaga, the guy with the swords could do en remember?

He could project en about 6 metres from his body.

Zeno could do his to 300 metres. 

I would like to take this as a direct comparison of ability.

Nobunaga had no problems getting into a fight with Hisoka.

I don't think Nobunaga would jump into a fight with Zeno.

I don't even think any of the Ryodan apart from the leader can stand up to Reiza.


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## Death Fog (Dec 4, 2005)

Kurapica said:
			
		

> offtopic: i'd like to have the link to that hxh site. I need a new avy.







			
				lekki said:
			
		

> Nobunaga, the guy with the swords could do en remember?
> 
> He could project en about 6 metres from his body.
> 
> ...



Honestly lekki, I dont think's that a good comparison. I mean Nobunaga backing out from a fight with Zeno? That's not in his character. Nobunaga isnt afraid of anyone. Heck he even had a heated argument with Kuroro himself, remember? It was when Kuroro decided to just go home and forget about the Chain User who killed Ubougin. Nobunaga strongly disagreed, and didnt even addressed Kuroro as the leader anymore. He just addressed him as "Kuroro". A fight wouldve most likely happened there, if Kuroro didnt talked some sense into him.


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## lekki (Dec 5, 2005)

While not the best comparison of character, you totally forgot to mention what my post was about. Their en field.

Nobunaga didn't even know that people could extend it past 100m while Zeno could do it to 300m.

Their ability differnce is vast.

Unless of course en has nothing to do with skill which I highly doubt.


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## Death Fog (Dec 5, 2005)

En is a basic Nen ability. I think its safe to say that almost every Nen-user can do En. So who knows maybe Hisoka has En comparable to Zeno or maybe not. And yes En has something to do with skill but only in the middle of a fight(i.e. detecting someone with En). The amount of En someone has has little to do with his strength in general. I mean yeah if you have a huge ass En it means that you have a huge ass aura. But using you aura to its most effective way is what really matters most. Kuroro, for example, didnt show us his En but he was doing fine against Zeno.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 5, 2005)

Actually Zeno using his En to that degree shows he has trained heavily and has amazing skills, that have been cultiavted perfectly to make him the pinnacle of an assasin. IT also provides a basis of Comparision. I'm to lazy to look now but Nefopelito also projects her En to an insane degree, I'm sure they say how much it is at some point. If here is less then 300 meters then it's safe to say Zeno is around her level in strength. And here level is either slightly less then equal to or higher then president Netero. 

However, that being said  Hisoka has show a superior skill to Zeno 300m En thing. He showed this when Kurata was using perfect Zetsu and Hisoka detacted here anyway. Kurata asked how NObunga respond this guy has superhuman senses !!!!!!!

Also being able to extend your en in such a large scoop is not really a pratical use of nen in battle. Unless Zeno has an attack that can instantly hit you withing 300 meters, like NoBunga sword.


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## Death Fog (Dec 5, 2005)

But that still didnt stop Kuroro, who didnt show us any En, from holding his own against Zeno and Zeno remarking that in a one on one fight he wouldve won but if Kuroro was serious it would be another story. 

Yes, if you have a huge En it means that you have trained intensively on it and have refined your aura well. But that in and of itself is still not a definite indication in winning a fight. The way you use that refined aura of yours is what really comes down in a fight. 

And I know that Netero questioned himself if Nef's stronger than him after seeing her En. But that still didnt stop Netero from getting excited in fighting the King. Thats because there are other factors, besides gauging someone's En, that could affect the outcome of a Nen fight.


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## Danchou (Dec 5, 2005)

I agree that En is not a accurate measuring stick to decide the outcome of a fight (altough it is a testement off strength). When fighting Kuroro Zeno didn't use it and neither did Kuroro. Also to say that en is determining means that Gon and Killua have no chance in hell to take one Nef. Remember, Togashi (the author) made it very clear that what aura regulation Gon and Killua have is not even considered to be en (since it's less then 57 cm or something like that). 

Shika shika boo: i don't think what Hisoka demonstrated (tracking down Karuto while she used zetsu) is more impressive then Zeno's en field. Hisoka himself admits that it was an extra-ordinary event since his senses were hightened (dodgeball match). Another nen user in Hisoka's league would probably be able to do the same if he were in Hisoka's shoes.


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## Kisame. (May 25, 2006)

Insipidity you been making threads forever but you need to start including polls! I give it to zeno. He figured out the nen ability amazingly quickly and had no doubt that he could beat Lucifer.


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