# Sorry to Say, but Sakura has Surpassed Tsunade



## Turrin (Jun 6, 2013)

I have seen a-lot of debate on this issue & so I decided to make this thread to explain why the manga has made it clear that Sakura has indeed surpassed her master:

*CQC*​It is made explicitly clear that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade in striking power by both feats and statements. In this panel we can see Tsunade using her Tsūtenkyaku technique:
this one

Tsunade's attacks is very impressive in power, however this is really nothing compared to Sakura's punches in ch 632:
this one

The difference is obvious. Furthermore we even have Hashirama's statement:

​
Now many people have argued that according to the time line Hashirama wouldn't be a good judge, but I honestly don't give such an argument any credit, because when has Kishimoto ever payed any consideration to the time-line. Kishimoto gives no shits, so I still consider this statement as a valid means of comparison with Kishi making readers aware of the fact that Sakura has indeed surpassed Tsunade in striking power. 

Besides striking power in CQC there is also speed to take in consideration, but Sakura's speed feat of instantly catching up to the Juubi clone she punched is easily as good if not better than any speed feat Tsunade has displayed in the manga:
this one

In terms of Taijutsu, Tsunade's Taijutsu is not this advanced technical art form, rather she is good at at Taijutsu because of her ability to incorporate her high power physical attacks into her CQC style, with techs like Tsūtenkyaku. However Sakura is equally capable of doing the same thing as we've seen in recent chapters with her Okasho technique. Only difference there is Sakura's strike power is even more impressive. 

The only other thing you could cite for Tsunade's Taijutsu is her keen senses and evasion skills, however she had passed these onto Sakura and Sakura had already shown high mastery of them all the way back at the start of Part II in the Sasori battle:


*Spoiler*: __ 



​



Therefore it's not unimaginable and in-fact is only logical with the way Kishi has been reteconing Sakura strength to be far greater than before, that Sakura by now has fully mastered this skill Tsunade imparted to her. 

Beyond that Sakura has also learned Shizune's poisons and incorporated poisoned weapons as well as knock out gas into her CQC fighting style. Now I would think Tsunade would also be capable of creating these tools, but for some reasons she never seems to do so. So whether it's just a matter of Sakura spending more time preparing herself better or whatever, this is an area where Sakura appears more lethal than her master in CQC. 

With all of this combined I believe we can reasonably say that Sakura is actually more lethal than Tsunade in CQC. From what we've seen so far the gap may not be huge, but even if it's a slight gap Sakura should hold the advantage.

*Ninjutsu*​
Ch 632 establishes that Sakura has reached the highest level of chakra control:
​
As we see Shizune states that Sakura storing chakra in her forehead for 3 years straight demonstrates that she possess the pinnacle (which means highest level) of chakra control. That means Sakura is at least equal to Tsunade in this regard, if not superior.

We also learn in Ch 632 that Sakura has mastered Tsunade's Yin Seal, this is the highest level of Fuuinjutsu that Tsunade has demonstrated within the manga, therefore one has to conclude that Sakura has most likely reached her master's level in Fuuinjutsu skill.

Sakura has also been indicated to posses the highest medical ninjutsu skill Tsunade displayed Byakugo. Now many people have this issue confused because the online translation has Shizune saying Hyakugo, but according to Takl what she actually says in the raw that Sakura has, "_the sign/mark of Byakugo"_. This to me is a clearly indication that Sakura has mastered Byakugo, but if that wasn't enough let's look at the context of the scene. We have flashback of Tsunade telling Sakura, _"you have to learn a technique that will enable you to fight on the front lines…"_. Now if one recalls in ch 577 Tsunade specifically states, _"second rule: medics must never be on the first line of the battlefield!"_. Than Tsunade states that only those who have mastered Byakugo can break that rule. 

So beside Shizune believing Sakura has obtained Byakugo the context of that scene and Sakura fighting on the front lines in that chapter further proves she has Byakugo. So this shows Sakura has also mastered the same pinnacle of Medical Ninjutsu that Tsunade has, and therefore has become as good as Tsunade in medical Ninjutsu.

Ch 633 shows Sakura has mastered Kuchiyose to the same extent as her master being able to summon Katsuya (or at least a slug equivalent to Katsuya):
​
And Sakura had already mastered Tsunade's antidote and poisons treatment skills in the Suna arc, as Chiyo said only someone of Tsunade's skill could cure Kankuro from Sasori's poison:
this one

Which Sakura showed she was able to accomplished.

All of this combined shows that Sakura seemingly possess at least an equal level of Ninjutsu skill to Tsunade, but Sakura just started fighting so she very well prove in coming chapters that she is not just equal to Tsunade in Ninjutsu, but superior. 

*Chakra*
​
As silly as it may seem the implication of this panel is clearly that Sakura has more Chakra accessible to her at any given time due to the fact that she does not have to waste chakra on looking young as Tsunade does. Ultimately this means we can expect a bigger pay off than Tsunade ever displayed when Sakura does in-fact release Yin seal on her forehead. 

Now people have said but Tsunade has stored Chakra in her forehead seal for much longer, however this is not what's indicated in the manga. If you remember in the Part I battle against Orochimaru, her seal lasted a very brief period of time, even when only being used for Gensis of Rebirth. This shows that the amount of chakra Tsunade stored in the seal prior to Part I was smaller than the amount she managed to store before the Madara battle, which only at best amount to a couple months worth of storing chakra.  The longest period she could have stored chakra was after Sannin duel, but prior to Pain's invasion where she used up all of her chakra. However such a period probably falls a bit shy of the 3 year mark and even if it reached that mark, Sakura should still be ahead due to the implication of her having more accessible chakra, as addressed above. 

So in terms of chakra Sakura has Tsunade beat, for a stupid reason mind you, but nonetheless it's still true.

*Hype*

​
These two panels clearly indicated that Tsunade foresaw Sakura gaining the power of a Sannin and even the power of a Hokage. Given that these words are shown in Ch632 imo it makes it fairly obvious that Ch632 is the moment at which Sakura is attaining this level of power. So I think it's clear that statements support Sakura having reached Sannin or Hokage level, thus making it credible that she could be better than someone like Tsunade.

*But Sakura Would Loose to Hokage level Opponents*​
It's true that in 1v1 combat the other Hokages would most likely defeat Sakura (at least based on what's known so far), however the same is true of Tsuande. Yet Tsunade is still Hokage level and consider in the same ballpark as her Sannin peers. 

The mistake people are making is that they are judging Medical Ninja on the same scale as regular Ninja. Yes in the case of regular Ninja we can usually tell if they are Hokage level of skill by asking whether or not they could hold their own and potentially even defeat a Hokage. However that only works in most cases, because in most Ninja focus on combat, while Medics focus on support.

To give another example; in most RPGS there is one Medic class; White Mage, Cleric, Herbalist, etc.... While almost every other class specializes in some form of combat. So in the case of most classes, you could figure out someone's general level by seeing what monsters they can and can't defeat. If a guy can defeat a lv 50 monster, but looses to a lv 53 monster, than his lv is probably somewhere around low 50s to high 40s, so something like 48-54. However this doesn't work as a way to judge the level of a Medic class character, since their combat abilities might only be on par with a Lv40 monster, despite them being Lv60 or even higher than that. So if you just judged there combat abilities you'd end saying they are around Lv40, but would be off by a huge margin from their actual level.

So we need to judge Medic Ninja's a different way and the main two things a medic ninja trains for are, keeping themselves alive and ability to heal others. Sakura and Tsunade both possess multiple S-rank skills and boss summon to help accomplish those two tasks. So they are just as stacked as some of the Hokage (not all - as Hashi and Minato are ridiculous) in their fields of expertise (Medic) as some of the Hokages are in their field (combat), and therefore can be seen as Hokage level on this basis.

*Conclusion*​It's been shown that Sakura is pretty much greater than or equal to Tsunade in their main fields of expertise. This indicates that Sakura is indeed superior to Tsunade at this point. Granted that gap might be small with Sakura only ahead by a slim margin so far, but one has to also remember that Sakura still has a good deal of team to show more skills to widen this gap further. However ether way Sakura is indeed superior to Tsunade at this point and therefore has surpassed Tsunade and achieved Hokage level.


----------



## FlamingRain (Jun 6, 2013)

While I actually disagree with quite a few of the points you used to get there, I agree with your overall conclusion.

Hype and storytelling devices maintain that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, anyone thinking otherwise is too focused on what Sakura looks like from a BD perspective.

It's sad that we see a flashback of Tsunade saying Sakura will inherit the power of a Sannin and Hashirama likening her strength to Tsunade's, yet people vote on her still being Chuunin level.


----------



## LesExit (Jun 6, 2013)

I feel as if medically Tsunade is still ahead of Sakura, but Sakura will definitely catch up I'm sure. Kishimoto's all about the previous generation surpassing the old, so her surpassing Tsunade makes perfect sense :33

Tsunade is still a boss though


----------



## αce (Jun 6, 2013)

yeah well there's no point having tsunade as the superior at this point in the manga
she was bound to surpass her eventually


----------



## Doge (Jun 6, 2013)

Did she use Byakogou?

If she did, then she's above Tsunade power wise.  But it's pretty clear leadership, intellect, and combat experience wise she's got a ways to go.  For instance, would she be able to heal Rock Lee with Tsunade's surgery?


----------



## Raiden (Jun 6, 2013)

I think Sakura will be head and shoulders above her one day. But I'm one of those posters who looks at it "from a BD perspective." I can't see Sakura topping Tsunade at the moment.


----------



## Karasu (Jun 6, 2013)

She seems a little flat as a character when compared to Tsunade.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 6, 2013)

Turrin...Sakura has the Byakugo no In-White Strength Seal. She doesn't have the Yin Seal, though she may possess Sozo Sasei and Byakugo no Jutsu.


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 6, 2013)

Tsunade still has a 5 in intelligence, taijutsu, and strength (not needing her Strong Arm jutsu). She also has a 4 in chakra (not needing her Yin seal). It also hasn't yet been stated of Sakura's medical skills are superior to Tsunade's yet. We definitely haven't seen Sakura use Genesis Rebirth or Strength of a Hundred jutsus. I wonder if Sakura can supercharge jutsus like Tsunade can?


----------



## αce (Jun 6, 2013)

Databook is so out of date I'm not sure why it's still relevant with team 7. Sakura is just getting ass pull power ups. Expect her to have 5's in those categories as well.


----------



## Nill (Jun 6, 2013)

I like how the ratings on the thread are so incredibly low and yet, there are no replies and justifications to them. In any case, I'm actually a very big fan of Sakura, I've been a fan since after the time skip and as you can imagine I am so happy she is finally showing her true strength and kicking ass! Not that she hasn't before, mind you, because being a medical ninja is just as important but nobody gives a shit because LET'S JUMP ON THE SAKURA HATE BANDWAGON AMIRITE?

Anyway, thanks for making this thread. I don't even know if I should be surprised at the level of hate Sakura is STILL getting after displaying amazing abilities. It's really ridiculous.. but whatever, haters gonna hate. She's fucking amazing


----------



## Turrin (Jun 6, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Turrin...Sakura has the Byakugo no In-White Strength Seal. She doesn't have the Yin Seal, though she may possess Sozo Sasei and Byakugo no Jutsu.



The Diamond is the Yin Seal there is no disputing that. The Sign of Byakugo is just Shizune noticing the Yin Seal appearing on Sakura as a sign that she can use Byakugo.



UltimateDeadpool said:


> Tsunade still has a 5 in intelligence, taijutsu, and strength (not needing her Strong Arm jutsu). She also has a 4 in chakra (not needing her Yin seal). It also hasn't yet been stated of Sakura's medical skills are superior to Tsunade's yet. We definitely haven't seen Sakura use Genesis Rebirth or Strength of a Hundred jutsus. I wonder if Sakura can supercharge jutsus like Tsunade can?


Deadpool we should not be using DB III stats for a character like Sakura who has continued to develop, when it's been over 200 chapters since then.

To show a quick example of why this is flawed. The rookies increased their stats dramatically from DBI to DBII, and those DB's were less than 150 chapters apart & Kishi wasn't ass pulling power ups as hardcore back then as he does now.

So I don't see any merit in this argument based on Stats.


----------



## Nic (Jun 6, 2013)

why would i waste my time arguing that Sakura hasn't surpassed Tsunade when Kishi is doing the argument for me?   That's what is so ironic, Kishi makes a chapter (632) where he's basically having Sakura say "whatever she can do, I can do better" and people still don't get kishi's point.


----------



## galvao18 (Jun 6, 2013)

Black Sun said:


> She seems a little flat as a character when compared to Tsunade.



I see what you did there


----------



## Garfield (Jun 6, 2013)

I really wish we'd seen some genjutsu from her by now.


----------



## Samehada (Jun 6, 2013)

For sure Sakura has the potential but I feel like she lacks raw experience to be on Tsunade's level.

I would give it more time.


----------



## sole (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't see how she's surpassed Tsunade at all.

She would lose to Tsunade so fast. She would have been an utter scrub in that Kages vs Madara fight.

Anyway, negs.


----------



## navy (Jun 7, 2013)

I think its fair to say Kishi left it ambiguous...


----------



## BrightlyGoob (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't understand why this should even be argued. 

Regardless of whether she is above Tsunade or not at this point in the manga doesn't matter because Kishi clearly indicates that ultimately, she's going to end up surpassing Tsunade.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't consider surpassing Tsunade something to brag about, so yeah...... I suppose she has.

Bar healing Tsunade has nothing to do next to Jiraiya and Orochimaru, just like Sakura has nothing to do next to Sasuke and Naruto bar healing.


----------



## morgaine4 (Jun 7, 2013)

Nic said:


> why would i waste my time arguing that Sakura hasn't surpassed Tsunade when Kishi is doing the argument for me?   That's what is so ironic, Kishi makes a chapter (632) where he's basically having Sakura say "whatever she can do, I can do better" and people still don't get kishi's point.



Obviously cannon and Kishi's intentions don't matter if he's written something good involving Sakura.  RME.


----------



## Cjones (Jun 7, 2013)

Doesn't bother me.


----------



## KevKev (Jun 7, 2013)

Until I see her tanking Susanoo swords, heal hundreds of shinobi all at once... 

Nope.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 7, 2013)

For the first link, was not that Tsunade first fight after a LONG time? She retired being ninja at that point
so I don't really think that he full power! look how was the result when she defeated Oro with one punch! 
and then see what she has done to Madara's clone with one punch! she wiped out half of his body!!! 

I think Sakura us around Tsunade's level now, but I don't see her stronger than her honestly
perhaps when she does some more thing I'll consider her as superior to Tsunade.


----------



## Marsala (Jun 7, 2013)

All that and Sakura still never learned genjutsu.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 7, 2013)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't consider surpassing Tsunade something to brag about, so yeah...... I suppose she has.
> 
> Bar healing Tsunade has nothing to do next to Jiraiya and Orochimaru, just like Sakura has nothing to do next to Sasuke and Naruto bar healing.



actually Tsunade is just as strong as Jman and oro. she even defeat oro with one punch. 
Yes, some will say he didn't have his jutsus and all of that, but well, none of which we have seen
from him can kill here except the Edo. Other than that's she can defeat him.


----------



## Shattering (Jun 7, 2013)

+1 for you Turrin, good thread.


----------



## Plague (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm sure when Sakura is in her prime, she will have surpassed Tsunade. 

Wait for her to reach her mid twenties lol


----------



## Addy (Jun 7, 2013)

Turrin, do you honestly think anyone gives a flying fuck  about tsunade or sakura surpassing each other?


----------



## sole (Jun 7, 2013)

KevKev said:


> Until I see her tanking Susanoo swords, heal hundreds of shinobi all at once...
> 
> Nope.



Exactly this.


----------



## AoshiKun (Jun 7, 2013)

Marsala said:


> All that and Sakura still never learned genjutsu.


The statement about Sakura being a Genjutsu type is just a reason for her amazing chakra control. We know that to use Genjutsu one needs inteligence and chakra control.

It seems it never meant that Sakura wouldl earn a Genjutsu.


----------



## harurisu (Jun 7, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I have seen a-lot of debate on this issue & so I decided to make this thread to explain why the manga has made it clear that Sakura has indeed surpassed her master:
> 
> *CQC*​It is made explicitly clear that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade in striking power by both feats and statements. In this panel we can see Tsunade using her Tsūtenkyaku technique:
> 1
> ...



There are a few flaws in your comment, one of them being that you compared Tsunade's pr?-time skip strength with current Sakura.

I mean the same Tsunade that healed herself ONCE and said it costed too much chakra ?
[sp=I don't know how to use tags]

And 3 years later she's healing an entire village...




The only problem with Tsunade is that her first shippuden fight was against the most OP character in the Narutoverse. Not only was she busy healing the other kages and recharging their chakra, she also just used her sozo saisei to heal her severe wounds caused by Mabui's technique, she couldn't afford to waste chakra.



Did Sakura pierce the mini juubi like Tsunade did ? I don't think so... 



I also have yet to see Sakura tank techniques like these




And survive getting cut in half.
[/sp]




Turrin said:


> The Diamond is the Yin Seal there is no disputing that. The Sign of Byakugo is just Shizune noticing the Yin Seal appearing on Sakura as a sign that she can use Byakugo.



The seal and the Byakugo are two different techniques.

Uzumaki Mito had the seal too.


Yet Madara had never heard of that technique until recently...​


----------



## runsakurarun (Jun 7, 2013)

^Will Uzumaki Mito be Sakura's new benchmark in terms of sealing techniques?

I Turrin's phrasing of Battledom linear thinking. The same has been the problem with the Sannin parallel. Some readers think team Sannin is about 100 points and team 7 has to beat that 100 battle points in order to be recognized as the new trio par excellence. This is a very simplistic way of thinking. 

Sakura and team 7 will surpass their mentors not just by "battle points" but also by being internationally recognized for their talents. Sakura already gained the respect of the Sand nins when she single-handedly cured a poison that their country couldn't. 

In this war, Sakura will be recognized in all countries for single-handedly healing an entire army as the new slug princess. She'll be as sought after as her Master Tsunade for high degree and long term injuries (e.g. genjutsu paralysis, broken bones, sealed arms).


----------



## MangaR (Jun 7, 2013)

Sakura said she could EASILY heal everyone on the battlefield. Lets count this as well next to 5 years old Tsunade showing such strength.

Sakura showed more strength and speed. Indirectly though. Its hard to compare unless she hits Suasano or Jubi. She may not have more knowledge as both medic and fighter but neither are Naruto and Sasuke, that doesn't mean they can't defeat opponents their masters couldn't.


----------



## Arles Celes (Jun 7, 2013)

There are still a few problems though:

- Can Sakura activate that seal wherever she wants now or she has to wait another 3 years to do so? Her base performance was thus far quite inferior to what Tsunde could do even without her Byakugo.

- Is she just as fast and skilled? It is one thing to land a hit on a Zetsu and something else to fight an opponent like Oro or Madara.

-  Is her chakra capacity on the same level? Tsunade due to her Senju and Uzumaki heritage has a quite big amount but Sakura based on her databook her a rather subpar chakra capacity.

- Is her summon as strong as Tsunade's assuming that she didn't just summon Katsuyu right now?

- Does she know Byakugo as well or is Hyakugo all she got? And does Tsunade herself know Hyakugo too or not? We only know that Sakura's Hyakugo was beyond Shizune's skill but nothing was said about Tsunade herself.

- Did Hashi compare Sakura's performance to Tsunade's "Prime" display or did Tsunade got better at smashy smashy considering that Hashi shouldn't live long enough to see her develop her full potential.

Until now all Sakura had shown is that she has better destructive power with her fists using Byakugo than Tsunade when Hashi saw her last and can summon a slug whose power level is still ambiguous even though it most likely won't be a weakling.

I think Sakura is a given to surpass Tsunade sooner or later (MAYBE even during this war) but IMO she didn't get enough feats YET for us to claim with certainty that she is already above her master.


----------



## Hamaru (Jun 7, 2013)

Sakura may surpass her in the future, but she hasn't done anything to say she is stronger right now. The striking attacks you compared are laughable when you use part 1 feats for her, which, at the time didn't show near the amount of chakra levels as in part 2. The speed feat you gave for Sakura is also lame. Nothing suggests Tsunade couldn't do the same. 

We have Sakura beating up fodder and fans act like she is fighting 4-5 Susanoos at once 
Not only is Hashirama's information about Tsunade's strength outdated, he also used the word "MIGHT", meaning Sakura MIGHT be stronger than the outdated information he has.


----------



## Maerala (Jun 7, 2013)

Uh, not yet. Maybe, depending on what she does next chapter.

But at this point, even if Sakura is physically stronger, we still don't know if she can use Creation Rebirth or Byakugō. She doesn't (or shouldn't) have Tsunade's durability that allowed her to survive Madara's attacks because she's not a Senju and Uzumaki hybrid. Definitely doesn't have the experience.

Because it's obvious that Kishimoto doesn't really care about Sakura and is just making her surpass Tsunade in a few random bursts for the sake of finalizing the story, it's entirely possible that in a few chapters someone will say that she has finally surpassed her master, but right now she hasn't done enough for the fans to come to that conclusion. If she can replicate Tsunade's healing feat during Pain's invasion like it seems she will next Wednesday, she'll certainly be fairly close.

Not that it matters, it was going to happen eventually, but were I a Sakura fan I wouldn't be thrilled with Kishimoto's complete disregard of Sakura up to this point.


----------



## Turrin (Jun 7, 2013)

harurisu said:


> The seal and the Byakugo are two different techniques.
> 
> Uzumaki Mito had the seal too.
> 
> ...



This was exactly my point.



Godaime Hokage said:


> Uh, not yet. Maybe, depending on what she does next chapter.
> 
> But at this point, even if Sakura is physically stronger, we still don't know if she can use Creation Rebirth or Byakugō.


I proved that she does in the OP.



> She doesn't (or shouldn't) have Tsunade's durability that allowed her to survive Madara's attacks because she's not a Senju and Uzumaki hybrid.


What? Never once was Tsunade's durability in the Madara battled cited as a resolut of her being an Uzamaki/Senju Hybrid. Instead Byakugo was cited and directly shown to be the reason. Sakura has Byakugo so she can do the same thing.



> Definitely doesn't have the experience.


When has Exp ever mattered to Kishi. He has 90 Year Old Kakuzu outsmarted constantly by people a fraction of his age.



> Because it's obvious that Kishimoto doesn't really care about Sakura and is just making her surpass Tsunade in a few random bursts for the sake of finalizing the story, it's entirely possible that in a few chapters someone will say that she has finally surpassed her master, but right now she hasn't done enough for the fans to come to that conclusion. If she can replicate Tsunade's healing feat during Pain's invasion like it seems she will next Wednesday, she'll certainly be fairly close.


If she replicates Tsunade's healing feats from the Pain arc she'll be far beyond Tsunade, considering Tsunade needed the help of 4 Elite Anbu to do that.



> Not that it matters, it was going to happen eventually, but were I a Sakura fan I wouldn't be thrilled with Kishimoto's complete disregard of Sakura up to this point.


Yeah Kishimoto did completely disregard Sakura up until this point and i'm not here to defend Sakura's character. I'm just telling people that realistically it's obvious that Sakura is surpassing Tsunade right now.


----------



## Kenshi (Jun 7, 2013)

So the fact that this power-up came out of nowhere doesn't bother anyone???


----------



## Turrin (Jun 7, 2013)

Kenshi said:


> So the fact that this power-up came out of nowhere doesn't bother anyone???


Oh it's super stupid, but that doesn't mean one can deny that the power up exists.


----------



## Wrath (Jun 7, 2013)

Kenshi said:


> So the fact that this power-up came out of nowhere doesn't bother anyone???


Yup, it came out of nowhere. I mean, if Kishimoto had established years ago that Tsunade was Sakura's master or that Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke were going to be the new Sannin then maybe it would make sense, but no.


----------



## MS81 (Jun 7, 2013)

she surpassed her in terms of strength with yin seal, but not medical or ninjutsu wise.


----------



## Naiad (Jun 7, 2013)

she has to heal the whole alliance with her slug and getting byakugo or genesis rebirth! if she get that, this is discussable


----------



## MS81 (Jun 7, 2013)

Kenshi said:


> So the fact that this power-up came out of nowhere doesn't bother anyone???



so if Lee goes 8 gates out of nowhere, that won't bother you?!?!


----------



## Grendel (Jun 7, 2013)

Wrath said:


> Yup, it came out of nowhere. I mean, if Kishimoto had established years ago that Tsunade was Sakura's master or that Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke were going to be the new Sannin then maybe it would make sense, but no.



lol this...

It's obvious that the three are going to be the "new sannin" and surpass their masters and that's what is happening right now and people are resisting it just because they hate sakuras character?  Like I said in another thread do people honestly believe that only 2 of the 3 will be shown to have surpassed their sannin counterpart?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 7, 2013)

Nic said:


> why would i waste my time arguing that Sakura hasn't surpassed Tsunade when Kishi is doing the argument for me?   That's what is so ironic, Kishi makes a chapter (632) where he's basically having Sakura say "whatever she can do, I can do better" and people still don't get kishi's point.



Same thing happened when wind Naruto surpassed Kakashi. 

Though more prominently, exactly the same thing also happened when MS Sasuke surpassed Itachi and when SM Naruto surpassed Minato. 

At first I thought it was because Itachi/Minato were popular, hence the reluctance to admit that they were exceeded. However it seems like this is the sort of thing that will happen whenever any character is said to surpass another.

In fact, it even happens with Madara. Apparently being Hashirama-Nagato-Madara (Mokuton-Rinnegan-EMS) isn't enough to surpass Hashirama. 

I guess there will always be doubters when the infamous surpassing "flag? is waved.


----------



## Muah (Jun 7, 2013)

People forget tsunade opened the ground with her finger. She also lifted a giant dagger and stabbed manda through the mouth. Not to mention she's still better at Sakura at everything. She can fully heal herself from just about anything and her only real fight was against kabuto who only one because of spilling his own blood. We've seen like one jutsu from tsunade don't think you know the extent of her power.


----------



## Eliyua23 (Jun 7, 2013)

This is how I look at it 


In the Rescue Gaara Arc 

We Have Sakura's Evasion Skills and ability to counter poisons surpassing Tsunade 


In the Immortals Arc 

We have Naruto Surpassing Minato's ability to use Elemental Rasengan


In the Kages Arc


We have Sasuke surpassing Itachi's Amareustsu with Enton





In the Pain Arc 

We have Sakura Trying to surpass Tsunade's healing Capabilites but fails because she doesn't have Katsuya 


In the Pain Arc

We Have Naruto trying to surpass Minato with SM but fails to due so because of the time limit 


In The Kages Arc


We have Sasuke trying to surpass Itachi's Stage 4 Susanoo  but fails due to going blind 



In the War Arc 


Naruto has been compared to Minato and eventually surpassed him with chakra transfer technique 



In the War arc

We have the last couple of chapter Sakura being directly compared to Tsunade and has said to surpass her, this her moment similar to Naruto's surpassing Minato


In The War Arc

We have Sasuke who will more than likely have his skills compared to Itachi and will officially surpass him 



Throughout pt 2 we have Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura mastering an ability of their benchmark beyond what said benchmark was capable off (FRS, Enton, Evasion),

Then we have them getting close to them in power but for some reason coming up short ( Time limit, Blindness, No Katsuya)


Now we have them completely surpassing their benchmarks

(BM/SM, EMS, Byakugo/Katsuya)


It's obvious they surpass their benchmarks in the war


----------



## ch1p (Jun 7, 2013)

Arles Celes said:


> - Can Sakura activate that seal wherever she wants now or she has to wait another 3 years to do so? Her base performance was thus far quite inferior to what Tsunde could do even without her Byakugo.



The seal looks the same and works the same. Why would Sakura only could use it every three years if that's not the case with Tsunade?



> - Is her summon as strong as Tsunade's assuming that she didn't just summon Katsuyu right now?



Is Gamakitchi stronger than Bunta?  Are you making these questions for real?



> - Did Hashi compare Sakura's performance to Tsunade's "Prime" display or did Tsunade got better at smashy smashy considering that Hashi shouldn't live long enough to see her develop her full potential.



Of course not. Hashirama made a comment about current Tsunade. You think six year old Tsunade could do that? It's just Kishimoto not thinking about it much and using the guy who most hypes people around (omg Itachi is a better hokage than me when he even didn't _know him_).



> Until now all Sakura had shown is that she has better destructive power with her fists using Byakugo



This is a comparision that is incorrect. Sakura's seal hasn't been opened yet.


----------



## harurisu (Jun 7, 2013)

ch1p said:


> The seal looks the same and works the same. Why would Sakura only could use it every three years if that's not the case with Tsunade?



Because Tsunade, an Uzumaki and Senju, has way more chakra than Sakura.


(and the seal isn't even opened, so it's all her base chakra)


I'm not saying it will take Sakura another 3 years to get her seal back, but don't expect her to do it as fast as Tsunade...​


----------



## Yuna (Jun 7, 2013)

ch1p said:


> Of course not. Hashirama made a comment about current Tsunade. You think six year old Tsunade could do that? It's just Kishimoto not thinking about it much and using the guy who most hypes people around (omg Itachi is a better hokage than me when he even didn't _know him_).


Toddler Tsunade couldn't. It's why Hashirama notes that seal!Sakura is stronger than toddler!Tsunade.

*Turrin:*
Shii directly compared the Uchiha bro's usage of Amaterasu.


The kanji for Byakugou (Tsunade's technique) are 百豪. The kanji Shizune uses (白豪) in chapter 622 are *similar*, but *not* the same. Both are transcribed as Byakugou, however. Notice how the first kanji are different, though.

It's obvious they're different techniques when you take a look at how the two different Byakugous are translated:
Tsunade: Byakugou no Jutsu - Strength of a Hundred Technique
Sakura: Byakugou no In - White Strength Seal

Different kanji, different translations, different techniques.


----------



## Gangryong Ma (Jun 7, 2013)

There's no way she surpassed Tsunade...

Tsunade still has instant regen, is much more durable do to her Senju body, and a ton of variety in her techniques compared to Sakura (like her Ranshisho and that scalpel thing).  

Right now Sakura could punch harder sure... and summon a slug... nothing that makes her surpass Tsunade yet...


----------



## FlamingRain (Jun 7, 2013)

Yuna said:


> Tsunade was born with monstrous strength.



It's unthinkable what Tsunade's mom went through before she was born.

Just imagine the baby kicks.

She probably woke up in the mornings in the middle of huge craters.


----------



## Yuna (Jun 7, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> It's unthinkable what Tsunade's mom went through before she was born.
> 
> Just imagine the baby kicks.
> 
> She probably woke up in the mornings in the middle of huge craters.


Tsunade's first kick likely ruptured something in Tsunade's mom, forcing  a bunch of sealing experts to place seals on the baby to either make it sleep until birth or simply seal its strength 'til birth.

That or her strength didn't appear 'til after she'd been born.


----------



## Selva (Jun 7, 2013)

meh Sakura is bound to surpass Tsunade sooner or later, the same way Naruto and Sasuke did with their Sannin benchmarks.

I still need to see more of her before I say she surpassed Tsunade now tho.


----------



## WhiteWolf (Jun 7, 2013)

what about in bewbs department?


----------



## Grimsley (Jun 7, 2013)

lol i screamed when i saw the title. that pink haired bitch surpassing the fifth hokage? yeah no


----------



## narut0ninjafan (Jun 7, 2013)

Orochibuto said:


> I don't consider surpassing Tsunade something to brag about, so yeah...... I suppose she has.
> 
> Bar healing Tsunade has nothing to do next to Jiraiya and Orochimaru, just like Sakura has nothing to do next to Sasuke and Naruto bar healing.



Healing is what Tsunade is renowned for. 

Combat wise she did the second best out of the Kages by the way as well. ~snip~

Using your logic without ET, Orochimaru from what he's shown isn't really on Jiraiya or Tsunade's level. The Sannin are and are portrayed as equals in general, although you could say Jiraiya so far has shown himself to be above Tsunade and Orochimaru (but given the latter two are still alive that may change).


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 7, 2013)

Well this might be true. 

What I am more curious about is, whether Sakura could kill a boss summon with that punch.


----------



## Johnny Kage (Jun 7, 2013)

Im still sure Tsunade > Sakura

Sakura can't use Byakugou yet


----------



## Starwind75043 (Jun 7, 2013)

Seeing Sakura's new powers and the discussion going on. I think everyone is  right about there points about this

To those who say its a ass pull. Yeah it is. There is basically no setup for this at all that she would gain this. This would have been less of a ass pull if maybe we had hints to this in past chapters but we had nothing of the sorts.

To those that say it retards Sauske & Naruto's development. Yeah your right. At this point the only two benchmarks left are  Madra and hashi. So why are we going backwards to the Sannin when they were surpassed long ago.

With all this said. I think its handled well. I think Sakura would have prepared her self in advance so she would know what all skills would become available to use. So things like the slug summons i have no issues with


----------



## Tsukiyo (Jun 7, 2013)

i dont care if she surpassed tsunade or not. i still like tsunade better. and tbqh even if sakura hasnt surpassed tsunade now, she most certainly will sooner or later


----------



## ? (Jun 7, 2013)

Am more interested in seeing how many times Sakura needs saving, 'forgetting' all she suddenly learned. 

So far, despite all the latest ass pulling over the past couple chapters it has already happened once.

I'd consider her and Tsunade on the same level only if Kishi makes Tsunade undergo a 'save me!' spree. At least ten times.


----------



## morgaine4 (Jun 8, 2013)

Johnny Kage said:


> Im still sure Tsunade > Sakura
> 
> Sakura can't use Byakugou yet



Why wouldn't she be able to?  Her seal is a Byakugou seal (Byakugō no In) NOT a Yin Seal.


----------



## Skywalker (Jun 8, 2013)

Not even she can regen on a higher level then Tsunade.

Sakura will surpass her once she can actually put Tsunade down in a fight.


----------



## Yuna (Jun 8, 2013)

morgaine4 said:


> Why wouldn't she be able to?  Her seal is a Byakugou seal (Byakugō no In) NOT a Yin Seal.


You know how *Sen*jutsu (仙) is not the same thing as *Sen*ju (千手) Jutsu?

Allow me to quote myself:


Yuna said:


> 3
> 
> 
> The kanji for Byakugou (Tsunade's technique) are 百豪. The kanji Shizune uses (白豪) in chapter 622 are *similar*, but *not* the same. Both are transcribed as Byakugou, however. Notice how the first kanji are different, though.
> ...



*Related:*



The two kanji *do not share a single common translation*. Entirely different words with the same pronunciation. They are Japanese homophones. Compare: Sore and soar.


----------



## Maerala (Jun 8, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I proved that she does in the OP.



The technique Shizune mentioned (Byakugō no In) and Tsunade's technique (Byakugō no Jutsu) are not the same. Refer to Yuna's post about the differences in kanji. Also Ino has been in the front lines the entire time despite being a medical-nin herself, who very likely does not know Byakugō. The medical-nin rules probably only apply when there's a four-man team out on a mission, with only one dedicated medic, not in the current situation.

It's possible that Sakura does know Tsunade's Byakugō, but until we know with certainty that she does, it'll be too early to say she has surpassed her teacher.



> What? Never once was Tsunade's durability in the Madara battled cited as a resolut of her being an Uzamaki/Senju Hybrid. Instead Byakugo was cited and directly shown to be the reason. Sakura has Byakugo so she can do the same thing.



Byakugō doesn't make Tsunade durable, it simply regenerates her wounds. In order to heal herself, she first has to have the physical durability to survive the attacks.



> When has Exp ever mattered to Kishi. He has 90 Year Old Kakuzu outsmarted constantly by people a fraction of his age.



Kakuzu despite his very advanced age (91) only had a 4.5 in Intelligence in the databook. And he was fighting Shikamaru, notably far more strategically intelligent than 99% of the cast. For a fight where experience had a big role refer to Chiyo and Sakura vs. Sasori, where Chiyo notes several times the advantage she has over Sasori due to her age, and the disadvantage Sakura was at for the same reason.



> If she replicates Tsunade's healing feats from the Pain arc she'll be far beyond Tsunade, considering Tsunade needed the help of 4 Elite Anbu to do that.



There's zero evidence that the ANBU had anything to do with Tsunade's technique itself. They were acting as guards while she focused on healing the villagers.



> Yeah Kishimoto did completely disregard Sakura up until this point and i'm not here to defend Sakura's character. I'm just telling people that realistically it's obvious that Sakura is surpassing Tsunade right now.



She's certainly on her way. Has she done it already in the past two chapters? Lolno.


----------



## ch1p (Jun 8, 2013)

morgaine4 said:


> Why wouldn't she be able to?  Her seal is a Byakugou seal (Byakugō no In) NOT a Yin Seal.



Tsunade's seal may be the same as Sakura's. The thing was never named individually, besides the 'yin seal: release' technique. We've been assuming that references the seal, but what if it references just the element of the seal like fire style, or water style (there's examples of both)?

They look the same. They work the same. They do the same. Tsunade taught the Byakugo Seal to Shizune and Sakura, so she knows it. Furthermore Sakura compares the two seals with the 'youthful looks' quip.

If anything Byakugo Seal is some kind of upgrade of the Yin Seal, and that's how they can be named differently outside of personal quirk, but they really need to be related and very closely related.



Godaime Hokage said:


> Kakuzu despite his very advanced age (91) only had a 4.5 in Intelligence in the databook. And he was fighting Shikamaru, notably far more strategically intelligent than 99% of the cast. *For a fight where experience had a big role refer to Chiyo and Sakura vs. Sasori, where Chiyo notes several times the advantage she has over Sasori due to her age, and the disadvantage Sakura was at for the same reason.*



When the manga made sense. 

Still, the 'surpass' line has always been about what they can do in comparision. Naruto surpassed Jiraiya because he mastered SM and surpassed Minato because he completed FRS. Sasuke surpassed Orochimaru because he's a snake / hawk hybrid and surpassed Itachi because he got EMS. I VERY MUCH DOUBT Naruto can win VS Minato or Sasuke can win VS Itachi. And yet, it's been said they have surpassed them. So, Sakura will do something similar, even if she won't win VS Tsunade.

I do agree that from what we've seen, disregarding technicalities such as Sakura doing the same stuff at a younger age, that she hasn't surpassed Tsunade. However, the denial crying (I don't mean you) in this thread that she won't, is ridiculous.



> There's zero evidence that the ANBU had anything to do with Tsunade's technique itself. They were acting as guards while she focused on healing the villagers.



I agree. What has the ANBU have to do with anything. They're not taking an active part like when the kages got Hiraishin to the battlefield.


----------



## Turrin (Jun 8, 2013)

Godaime Hokage said:


> The technique Shizune mentioned (Byakugō no In) and Tsunade's technique (Byakugō no Jutsu) are not the same. Refer to Yuna's post about the differences in kanji.


Again I already covered this in my op, but in case you missed it:

"Sakura has also been indicated to posses the highest medical ninjutsu skill Tsunade displayed Byakugo. Now many people have this issue confused because the online translation has Shizune saying Hyakugo, but according to Takl what she actually says in the raw that Sakura has, "the sign/mark of Byakugo". This to me is a clearly indication that Sakura has mastered Byakugo, but if that wasn't enough let's look at the context of the scene. We have flashback of Tsunade telling Sakura, "you have to learn a technique that will enable you to fight on the front lines?". Now if one recalls in ch 577 Tsunade specifically states, "second rule: medics must never be on the first line of the battlefield!". Than Tsunade states that only those who have mastered Byakugo can break that rule."



> Also Ino has been in the front lines the entire time despite being a medical-nin herself, who very likely does not know Byakugō.


Ino is not Tsunade's student and Ino is arguably a Yamanaka before she is a Medic. Plus I don't remember Ino ever being the first one to engage an enemy. 



> The medical-nin rules probably only apply when there's a four-man team out on a mission, with only one dedicated medic, not in the current situation.


Do you really think Tsunade telling  Sakura she has to learn a technique that will allow her to fight at the front lines does not refer to Byakugo? Do you really think Shizune saying that Sakura possess the Sign of Byakugo does not foreshadow Sakura having Byakugo? Do you really think that Sakura is going to open her Yin Seal and nothing is going to happen but her getting more chakra?

Well if you do believe or want to believe all of those things , all I can say is good luck with that & prepare to be disappointed. 



> It's possible that Sakura does know Tsunade's Byakugō, but until we know with certainty that she does, it'll be too early to say she has surpassed her teacher.


We already do know with certainty that she has Tsunade level Byakugo or better. The manga makes this obvious. We don't need to see her use the jutsu to know when Kishi foreshadowing is so obvious and heavy handed. 



> Byakugō doesn't make Tsunade durable, it simply regenerates her wounds. In order to heal herself, she first has to have the physical durability to survive the attacks.


It makes her more durable because her cells are constantly regenerating, so at the same time an attack is doing damage that damage is already being reversed. That's how Tsunade survives shit.



> Kakuzu despite his very advanced age (91) only had a 4.5 in Intelligence in the databook. And he was fighting Shikamaru, notably far more strategically intelligent than 99% of the cast.


'And than he fought Naruto, who had much less intelligence, and his exp was still worthless. 



> For a fight where experience had a big role refer to Chiyo and Sakura vs. Sasori, where Chiyo notes several times the advantage she has over Sasori due to her age, and the disadvantage Sakura was at for the same reason.


And yet Chiyo would have still lost horribly if Sasori hand't killed himself. 

Now I'll show you about a dozen examples of when Exp and Intelligence doesn't matter:

1. Naruto beats Mizuki
2. Sasuke beats 2 Mist Chuunin
3. Sasuke and Naruto trick Zabuza 
4. Naruto beats Haku
5. Itachi beats Kakashi
6. Naruto Rasengans Kabuto
7. Sasori would have beaten Chiyo
8. Orochimaru being pushed back by KN4
9. Naruto beats Kakuzu
10. Sasuke outplays Orochimaru 
11. Sasuke beats Deidara
12. Nagato beats Jiraiya
13. Sasuke vs Raikage ends in draw?
14. Sasuke beats Danzo
15. Kankuro beats Sasori and Deidara
16. Mifune beats Hanzo

Simply put Exp never matters to Kishi and Intelligence only matters if your some super genius like Shikkamaru.



> There's zero evidence that the ANBU had anything to do with Tsunade's technique itself. They were acting as guards while she focused on healing the villagers.


They are standing perfectly within formation in the seal formula, each on the end of one of the four seal formula columns:
 yamato calls him fast?

And than when they get up the flow of chakra to Tsunade stops:
 yamato calls him fast?

I think it's safe to say that they were giving Tsunade some of their chakra

Also in chapter 427 when she stops using the healing formation and than begins again, she says "lets" continue indicating that all of them are working together on this. 



> She's certainly on her way. Has she done it already in the past two chapters? Lolno.


She had done it by Ch 632, we just haven't seen what she's fully capable of yet.


----------



## takL (Jun 8, 2013)

i dont think sakura has surpassed tsunade yet cos this has be the very first time for her to use the byakugo thingy.

@ yuna chan. fuuin 封印(=seal/sealing)　isnt exacrtly same to  in 印　(=mark, simbol sign)


----------



## Sci-Fi (Jun 8, 2013)

Bout time Sakura got something. That being said, its too early to make comparisons. 
Kishi had Sakura say some things like she doesnt have to look young and could use her full powers. So Tsunade was holding back because she wants everyone to see her young self? Even leveling up to the max against Madara, Tsunade used some of her chakra to keep her young appearence. 
Imho, Sakura is just a base copy of Tsunade right now. No signature or original move yet. How will Kishi give Sakura that when she just now awakened that power? No training like Naruto had to go thru. Kishi would be forced to have Sakura make up stuff on the battlefield to create a new jutsu and show she can use her brain/smarts to level up with this newfound power.
As far as Ino, she is more a paramedic and in her job as ninja, it could come in handy when on spying missions. Can do quick healing and be used for offensive or defensive purposes as seen in the Kabuto vs Tsunade fight.
In the end, Kishi may be forced to have another character(s) say on panel that Sakura surpassed Tsunade to make it canon. She surpassed Shizune because she obtained the seal.
Have to fault Kishi for the last minute Sakura development. Guess its better than nothing. Unless she becomes the Juubi's jin or combines genjutsu with her new power, its hard to make a believable leap to Naruto's and Sasuke's level. This is shounin anyways so not expecting to see that kind of development. More likely some kind of team combo for the finishing move than any individual feat.


----------



## morgaine4 (Jun 8, 2013)

Yuna said:


> You know how *Sen*jutsu (仙) is not the same thing as *Sen*ju (千手) Jutsu?
> 
> Allow me to quote myself:
> 
> ...



I know that they're different, after all one is a seal and the other is a Jutsu; however, one can infer that based on the name that Sakura's seal is more powerful and will probably allow for more powerful jutsus.  

I do agree that at this point it's might be a bit premature to assume that Sakura has indeed surpassed Tsunade, but it is also a bit shortsighted not to remember Kishi's current purpose --to have Team 7 surpass the Sannin, to have the oldies wank about the newbies.



ch1p said:


> Tsunade's seal may be the same as Sakura's. The thing was never named individually, besides the 'yin seal: release' technique. We've been assuming that references the seal, but what if it references just the element of the seal like fire style, or water style (there's examples of both)?
> 
> They look the same. They work the same. They do the same. Tsunade taught the Byakugo Seal to Shizune and Sakura, so she knows it. Furthermore Sakura compares the two seals with the 'youthful looks' quip.



They look the same shape-wise yeah, but they don't look the same.  Proportionally speaking, Sakura's seal seems to be a significantly than Tsunades (and don't forget, Sakura's forehead is supposed to be huge hehe).  At first I thought that Kishi did that only to emphasize "Sakura has a new gadget," but even in 633 the seal remained that larger size.  It could be a coincidence, but I doubt it, it's probably (and hopefully) Kishi's way of indicating that there's a greater number/variation of possible jutsus, and at a greater power level.



> Also Ino has been in the front lines the entire time despite being a medical-nin herself, who very likely does not know Byakugō. The medical-nin rules probably only apply when there's a four-man team out on a mission, with only one dedicated medic, not in the current situation.



Ino is a medic-nin, but unlike Tsunade, Shizune, and Sakura that doesn't seem to be her primary purpose on the field.  Her primary role seems to be rooted in the fact that she's a Yamanaka, and with her ability to team up Shikamaru and Chouji.  Sakura is a medical ninja, Ino is a Yamanaka Kunoichi who has trained in medical ninjutsu.



> How will Kishi give Sakura that when she just now awakened that power? No training like Naruto had to go thru. Kishi would be forced to have Sakura make up stuff on the battlefield to create a new jutsu and show she can use her brain/smarts to level up with this newfound power.



I think it would make sense, because if using her seal that actually the techniques would be created and stored _within_ the seal.  Seals seems to be sort of like computer programs, all the programming is there, but the precise amount and application of Chakra is necessary for each specific technique.

It's like, some people misunderstand the way Tsunade's (and I assume Sakura's) seal works.  Once enough Chakra has been stored to make the seal usable, I don't think that that Chakra needs to be re-stored at that spot even after usage (though storage is still possible for modify techniques etc).  I think the ability to use the techniques stored within the seal change depending upon the amount of Chakra left in the body, but once the body is healed there's no need to store Chakra again (that's how I see it).

So like, after Pein Invasion, even though Tsunade used up enough Chakra to fall into a coma for a significant amount of time, she didn't need to re-store in that spot in order to have access to the, she just needed to regain health and Chakra so that the seal, the jutsus contained within the seal would be usable, her arms, legs, eyes etc were usable.


----------



## Empathy (Jun 8, 2013)

With her diamond-mark activated, her strength could be greater than Tsunade in base, I guess. But _Sozo Saisei_ and _Byakugo_ have shown to greatly augment her strength. There hasn't been any indication she's surpassed her in medical capacity, which is of pivotal importance if the author wanted to convey her surpassing Tsunade. Sakura hasn't shown any regenerative abilities either. Your argument of the author simply not giving a shit about the timeline of his own story is weak. There is a specific showing of Hashirama remembering Tsunade as a baby. It's doubtful he lived to see Tsunade in her prime.  Lastly, her summon seems smaller. If the author wanted to give implications that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, he could do better than showing her weaker abilities. It'd be bad writing for Sakura even for Kisihimoto to jump from not showing any growth from Sakura to her suddenly being above the Hokage.


----------



## Turrin (Jun 8, 2013)

Empathy said:


> With her diamond-mark activated, her strength could be greater than Tsunade in base, I guess. But _Sozo Saisei_ and _Byakugo_ have shown to greatly augment her strength. There hasn't been any indication she's surpassed her in medical capacity, which is of pivotal importance if the author wanted to convey her surpassing Tsunade. Sakura hasn't shown any regenerative abilities either. Your argument of the author simply not giving a shit about the timeline of his own story is weak. There is a specific showing of Hashirama remembering Tsunade as a baby. It's doubtful he lived to see Tsunade in her prime.  Lastly, her summon seems smaller. If the author wanted to give implications that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade, he could do better than showing her weaker abilities. It'd be bad writing for Sakura even for Kisihimoto to jump from not showing any growth from Sakura to her suddenly being above the Hokage.


I don't think you read the OP as I proved Sakura has these regenerative abilities and medical jutsu master. As for the Kishi not giving a shit about the time-line being a weak argument, well I must assume you haven't read the obito flashback, because Kishi gave no shits about the time-line back then or heck even in the case of the Itachi flashbacks. Hell show me one instance where he cared to make sure the time-line was accurate.


----------



## ch1p (Jun 8, 2013)

takL said:


> i dont think sakura has surpassed tsunade yet cos this has be the very first time for her to use the byakugo thingy.
> 
> @ yuna chan. fuuin 封印(=seal/sealing)　isnt exacrtly same to  in 印　(=mark, simbol sign)



uuuhhhhhhmmmm...  so sakura's seal can still be called yin seal... 



morgaine4 said:


> They look the same shape-wise yeah, but they don't look the same.  Proportionally speaking, Sakura's seal seems to be a significantly than Tsunades (and don't forget, Sakura's forehead is supposed to be huge hehe).  At first I thought that Kishi did that only to emphasize "Sakura has a new gadget," but even in 633 the seal remained that larger size.  It could be a coincidence, but I doubt it, it's probably (and hopefully) Kishi's way of indicating that there's a greater number/variation of possible jutsus, and at a greater power level.



It's a stylistic choice.





Kishimoto isn't even consistent within the same chapter.

I do agree it can be bigger (either just because trololo more space or because it stores moar), but it wouldn't change the seal being the same (just bigger).



> Ino is a medic-nin, but unlike Tsunade, Shizune, and Sakura that doesn't seem to be her primary purpose on the field. Her primary role seems to be rooted in the fact that she's a Yamanaka, and with her ability to team up Shikamaru and Chouji.



Ino didn't know who Katsuyu is in the Pain invasion arc. It's safe to say she wasn't trained directly by Tsunade. My head canon is that Sakura taught her in their girly night ins.


----------



## DeK3iDE (Jun 9, 2013)

whether she would do it in the future or not, basing my prognosis on what the thread is actually about i'd  say you have seriously got to be kidding me to be saying Sakura has already surpassed Tsunade. I don't even think a lot of Tsunade but not so little where i would say Sakura has surpassed her; excluding the fact that her latest powerup is most definitely an asspull.


----------



## takL (Jun 9, 2013)

ch1p said:


> uuuhhhhhhmmmm...  so sakura's seal can still be called yin seal...



yea the 'in' in the 'in fuin' means either yin as in  'yin and yang' or hidden/shadow. maybe there are also yang seals as well as the other kinds of ying seals.
perhaps mitos mark was a yin seal too. then tunade created byakugos jutu which activates the chakra in her Yin seal so that shizune calls it as the mark of byakugo? or even if moto could already use the jutsu, she with 9bs chakra didnt need to use it. hell seemingly she didnt even use the chakra in the seal to look young. Wonder how the lady felt seeing her man stay forever young.....


----------



## morgaine4 (Jun 9, 2013)

> I do agree it can be bigger (either just because trololo more space or because it stores moar), but it wouldn't change the seal being the same (just bigger).



Oh, I agree, I just thought the size was interesting.  Though as you pointed out, apparently the size isn't uber-consistent.

I do think that at this point we don't know if the seal is the same or not, because we don't know the full capacity of the seal, or the seal's programming.  I hope we find out, haha.



Big Bad Wolf said:


> whether she would do it in the future or not, basing my prognosis on what the thread is actually about i'd  say you have seriously got to be kidding me to be saying Sakura has already surpassed Tsunade. I don't even think a lot of Tsunade but not so little where i would say Sakura has surpassed her; excluding the fact that her latest powerup is most definitely an asspull.



Her power up is sudden, and it's a shame that we didn't see her training (though we do know that she's been training her mind), but by definition something that has been foreshadowed since chapter 4 is not an ass-pull.


----------



## Hellomynameis (Jun 27, 2013)

Sakura will never surpass Tsunade! Besides Sakura only has chakra  enhanced strength while tsunade has raw strength plus chakra  enhanced strength which means it's far superior than Sakura!


----------



## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 27, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Besides striking power in CQC there is also speed to take in consideration, but Sakura's speed feat of instantly catching up to the Juubi clone she punched is easily as good *if not better* than any speed feat Tsunade has displayed in the manga:
> heal it



Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Sakura's speed feat was great, yes. However, it was not any better than anything Tsunade has done. Out-speeding an airborne Onoki, attacking in tandem with Ei, repelling Madara's katon before the other Kage, blitzing Orochimaru etc. Tsunade has a lot of good speed feats. I'm sure Sakura is about as fast as Tsunade is at this point, but given that her master was never a speedster, Sakura has no reason to be either.



> In terms of Taijutsu, Tsunade's Taijutsu is not this advanced technical art form, rather she is good at at Taijutsu because of her ability to incorporate her high power physical attacks into her CQC style, with techs like Tsūtenkyaku. However Sakura is equally capable of doing the same thing as we've seen in recent chapters with her Okasho technique. Only difference there is Sakura's strike power is even more impressive.
> 
> *The only other thing* you could cite for Tsunade's Taijutsu is her keen senses and evasion skills, however she had passed these onto Sakura and Sakura had already shown high mastery of them all the way back at the start of Part II in the Sasori battle:



This is not true. Tsunade's taijutsu is not just about evasion and super strength - those are huge factors within it, true enough, but resilience and durability are very important within her style as well. I'm confident that Sakura is able to use regeneration, but unless she musters up the necessary pain threshold to start ripping giant swords out of her torso without even flinching, or to survive for extensive periods of time (presumably several hours) while bisected, then she will not be able to make use of her Byakugou as well as her master can. Moreover, her CQC will be quite limited to just evading (her skill in this area is unknown currently) while Tsunade has more options available in CQC.



> Beyond that Sakura has also learned Shizune's poisons and incorporated poisoned weapons as well as knock out gas into her CQC fighting style. Now I would think Tsunade would also be capable of creating these tools, but for some reasons she never seems to do so. So whether it's just a matter of Sakura spending more time preparing herself better or whatever, this is an area where Sakura appears more lethal than her master in CQC.



Solely from a BD perspective, where Sakura ICly carries sleeping bombs and poisons around with her, is she more lethal. Generally speaking however, by your own admission, Tsunade is capable of replicating these feats, she just chooses not to. I see no reason to use this as an argument to suggest Sakura is greater than Tsunade in CQC.



> So beside Shizune believing Sakura has obtained Byakugo the context of that scene and Sakura fighting on the front lines in that chapter further proves she has Byakugo. So this shows Sakura has also mastered the same pinnacle of Medical Ninjutsu that Tsunade has, and therefore has become as good as Tsunade in medical Ninjutsu.



This is possible, but again I must mention _experience_. Sakura can perform generic medical ninjutsu like Shosen and Saikan Chūshutsu, albeit she can perform them very skillfully. She learned the Byakugou because Tsunade taught her how to. There are things Tsunade presumably could not have taught her, though. For example, Tsunade was said to be capable of healing Orochimaru's arms which were badly damaged through necrosis, she could heal Sasuke from the mental damage of Tsukuyomi etc. there are types of unconventional damage that Tsunade discovered to heal and recover simply because she's been around so long and healed so many different wounds/experimented so much. Sakura has been training as a medic for 3 years, compare that to Tsunade's 25-30 years of of medical duties, and it's understandable why Tsunade would have the edge.

It's also worth mentioning that attacks like Rashinshou, or her un-named medical jutsu which she used to kill Orochimaru, have not been seen to be used by Sakura thus far. We have no idea if she can use them or not.

It would probably be fair to say that Sakura's ability to heal is on par with Tsunade's at this point, but to say her medical ninjutsu ability is all around equal, is a bit of a push.




> As silly as it may seem the implication of this panel is clearly that Sakura has more Chakra accessible to her at any given time due to the fact that she does not have to waste chakra on looking young as Tsunade does. Ultimately this means we can expect a bigger pay off than Tsunade ever displayed when Sakura does in-fact release Yin seal on her forehead.



The technique Tsunade uses to look young is a more advanced form of the transformation techinique (an E-Rank jutsu). After it wears off she notes that after she rests for a while, it will take effect again _[1]_. As such, I do not believe it uses up a considerable amount of chakra as you imply. 

Tsunade's reserves were such that she could heal her entire village without being fatigued at all, her feat easily rivals Sakura's. She fought Madara for several hours both with and without her seal released, and gave chakra to her team-mates, healed them, threw strikes, jumped around and regenerated avidly, during that time. Sakura has yet to _surpass_ that.



> Now people have said but Tsunade has stored Chakra in her forehead seal for much longer, however this is not what's indicated in the manga.



Not true. The correct (Viz) translation of chapter 169 (when Tsunade first uses her seal) is that she had been storing chakra for " many years ".  Given that Tsunade had retired as a medic and went on to gamble and drink, it would be surprising if she had created it even half a decade before the Sannin fight. I'd bet she created it shortly after leaving Konoha, when Dan died, in order to never die in battle so that she could continually protect her loved ones (as is cited by the Databook). That would mean she'd been storing chakra for 20 odd years. 



> If you remember in the Part I battle against Orochimaru, her seal lasted a very brief period of time, even when only being used for Gensis of Rebirth.



I think this is a misconception. In Part II, immediately after Tsunade used Genesis Rebirth against Madara, she returned the leftover chakra from her technique back into the seal [1] In Part I however she did not do this, her stamina was _notably_ _lower_ in Part I, thus it would make sense for her to keep the remaining chakra and use it to go on the offense. Her seal _reformed_ a little while later, after she had finished her assault on Orochimaru. 

Sakura showed us that whenever enough chakra is stored in the seal it will form on the forehead - presumably enough needs to be stored for regenerative techniques to be used. As such, it was evidently not a matter of Tsunade running out of chakra in her seal and it dissipating, but rather that she never returned the chakra she used back to the seal, and reformed it shortly after. This would explain why once she had used the leftover chakra and reformed her seal, that she began to turn old. While her seal chakras were extensive - her base chakras were not.



> This shows that the amount of chakra Tsunade stored in the seal prior to Part I was smaller than the amount she managed to store before the Madara battle, which only at best amount to a couple months worth of storing chakra.  The longest period she could have stored chakra was after Sannin duel, but prior to Pain's invasion where she used up all of her chakra. However such a period probably falls a bit shy of the 3 year mark and even if it reached that mark, Sakura should still be ahead due to the implication of her having more accessible chakra, as addressed above.



I doubt the time period between when Tsunade woke from her coma, and from when she fought Madara was a few months. I'd place it at a couple of weeks at best. As for the Pein invasion, Tsunade had to use all of her seal chakra, whereas in the Sannin fight she did not.

Though Sakura has obviously stored more than Tsunade has at this point in the manga, but Tsunade had most likely stored a lot more back in Part I.




> It's true that in 1v1 combat the other Hokages would most likely defeat Sakura (at least based on what's known so far), however the same is true of Tsuande. Yet Tsunade is still Hokage level and consider in the same ballpark as her Sannin peers.
> 
> The mistake people are making is that they are judging Medical Ninja on the same scale as regular Ninja. Yes in the case of regular Ninja we can usually tell if they are Hokage level of skill by asking whether or not they could hold their own and potentially even defeat a Hokage. However that only works in most cases, because in most Ninja focus on combat, while Medics focus on support.



I know what you're trying to get at here, but I disagree. Tsunade is a Sannin, and she's on par with her Sannin counterparts. None of the Sannin are on the same level of the past Hokage, and thus in theory none of Team 7 could be on their level either. The difference is Naruto and Sasuke have skills which they gained from other individuals - Kakashi, Itachi, Asuma, Killer Bee etc. which are unrelated to the Sannin. 


Don't get me wrong though, I think anyone who argues Sakura isn't going to surpass Tsunade soon is stupid. However, coming to the conclusion that she's better than Tsunade based on what we've seen so far, and not on what we presume she can do, is wrong imo.​​


----------



## jmmp (Jun 27, 2013)

The fact is Tsunade has preformed all of Sakura's feats and more. Her seal is implied to be equal strength, with a very small portion going to transformation. 

In addition, Tsunade developed the pinaccle of medical ninjutsu, s rank techniques that have not and likely will not be seen outside of her use, finally, she can be bisected and still be a medic to critically injured even though SHE'S BISECTED. She's defended and healed hundreds from the most powerful offensive jutsu seen thus far, that compares to a tailed beast ball.

Sorry, when it comes to feats, sakura has not surpassed her. When it comes to medical knowledge, sakura has not surpassed her.

Sakura has inherited some of the techniques, but she lacks the ability to a) Apply her own medical ninjutsu knowledge to make her own techniques relevant to her fighting style (which pretty much only Tsunade has done at this point) and b) Preform medical ninjutsu at the level Tsunade has under the circumstances that Tsunade has.


Sakura has inherited Tsunade's power at a much younger age because it was drilled into her, but she has NOT surpassed Tsunade's current power level.



> Don't get me wrong though, I think anyone who argues Sakura isn't going to surpass Tsunade soon is stupid. However, coming to the conclusion that she's better than Tsunade based on what we've seen so far, and not on what we presume she can do, is wrong imo.



Exactly. Sakura is getting there but Tsunade has not been surpassed yet, most definitely after that latest chapter to feature her.


----------



## JellyButter (Jun 27, 2013)

Tsukiyo said:


> i dont care if she surpassed tsunade or not. i still like tsunade better. and tbqh even if sakura hasnt surpassed tsunade now, she most certainly will sooner or later



My opinion.

But didn't even Chiyo or Tsunade herself say that Sakura would surpass her? If I'm not mistaken..I'll go back and watch if I'm wrong.


----------



## Krippy (Jun 27, 2013)

No, just no.


----------



## LesExit (Jun 27, 2013)

I still think Tsunade still surpasses Sakura, simply do to her superior medical knowledge and experience. I also think Tsunade feats are more impressive. I mean she did basically create the modern day medical ninja system. Sakura is still great though and will eventually completely surpass her.


----------



## Revolution (Jun 27, 2013)

*Request to the mods to change the title to "Sakura has Surpassed Tsunade" and take out the "Sorry to Say" because that's just insulting.*


----------



## Empire Ant (Jun 27, 2013)

Was there really much to surpass?


----------



## Naiad (Jun 27, 2013)

a poll would be nice


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 28, 2013)

Turrin said:


> What? Never once was Tsunade's durability in the Madara battled cited as a resolut of her being an Uzamaki/Senju Hybrid. Instead Byakugo was cited and directly shown to be the reason. Sakura has Byakugo so she can do the same thing.



No. The strength of the body of a Senju has been hyped to hell and back, as has the longevity of the Uzumaki clan. Tsunade, being a product of both (her grandfather being a Senju and her grandmother being an Uzumaki), has displayed incredible feats of endurance and longevity that have been consistent with the hype, and corroborated as well as justified the hype and turned it into an actual application in battle. It is her body that is strong. It is the Byakugou technique that simply enhances that far beyond her already unnatural means.

Sakura hasn't displayed the durability on any level near Tsunade's. 



> If she replicates Tsunade's healing feats from the Pain arc she'll be far beyond Tsunade, considering Tsunade needed the help of 4 Elite Anbu to do that.





No. No, no, no, no, _no._

Tsunade was healing the village. Tsunade was protecting all the villagers from death and wounds via her healing. 

The technique is her and Katsuyu's in conjunction. Tsunade uses her chakra to heal the villagers, and used Katsuyu to distribute it. There was never any indication she received any help.




Turrin said:


> It makes her more durable because her cells are constantly regenerating, so at the same time an attack is doing damage that damage is already being reversed. That's how Tsunade survives shit.



There is so much that is wrong with this, least of all it being an assumption.

Durability is not the same as regeneration. You do not get amazing durability from regeneration. Regeneration does not grant you durability. It merely enhances what durability you have.

As it has been said, Tsunade's body is that of the "strength" inherited from the younger son of the Sage of Six Paths, aka the Senju body, in addition to the longevity and unnaturally-long lifespans that grace the Uzumaki clan. Tsunade is descended from both. 

She has displayed insane durability feats. As a fifty-year-old, freshly out of retirement from a period of 30 or so years (a vast majority of her life, as she would've left Konoha soon after the conclusion of the Second World War, or even before, assuming Dan died midway into the war), with no training or practice, and tired out before actually being engaged in battle by a younger, more agile, hyped-up medical shinobi on soldier pills with prior knowledge (given to him courtesy of Tsunade's former teammate, Orochimaru), she was going toe-to-toe with an opponent with every conceivable advantage.

And she was basically kicking his ass. Until he brought out use of her phobia, of course, because there was no other way he could subdue her, as haxxed on advantages as he was.

In that battle, a tired out old lady who was well out of her prime and well out of shape (having abused her body with alcohol and stress-inducing agents like gambling and escaping from debt collectors) was keeping up with someone who was touted on Kakashi's level (at the time) even without his amps. 

He dealt her blows that he did not expect her to recover from, and stated that most "normal shinobi" would've been left on the ground, gasping for air when their intercostal muscles (muscles in the ribcage used to expand them and help you breathe) had been cut, nevermind that she was ignoring pain and cut muscles that should've rendered her unable to move in the first place. She pushed past that and blitzed him in the split second he closed his eyes.

She healed them, partially at least. Kabuto was surprised to the point that even despite all her handicaps, she was still incredibly, fearfully-strong and he equated her to _the power of the Sannin, *even in what horrible shape she was in.*_ That's how much of a durable beast Tsunade was back then.

Later that same fight, once immobilized by her phobia, Kabuto was continually assaulting an unresponsive Tsunade who was not defending herself. She was getting beat up even then. Then, later on, in a huge display of the mental willpower and fortitude Tsunade possesses, she willed herself to get over a phobia that had been plaguing her for a majority of her life, all to protect Naruto. 

She was slashed three times by a legendary sword, again I repeat, _a legendarily-powerful_ sword, three times over. She was penetrated the first time in her upper chest, right between the breasts, and the angle the of the penetration made it seem she was striked through the heart, as the cough of blood could potentially suggest. Do note that the upper chest is positively _riddled_ with important organs, such as the heart, lungs, and (seeing as the sword went out her back) it could have potentially even severed her spinal cord, or damaged it in some way.  She was then slashed again, but each time, she kept getting back up, she kept protecting Naruto. 

Finally, she fought off her phobia, blitzed _a carefully-watching Orochimaru_, and then began to heal what should've been lethal damage. 

Tsunade took a lot of abuse in that fight, even when she wasn't healing. The fact that she lived through what should've been lethal damage, without her healing right away, should've been indicative of her _*durability*,_ not her regenerative abilities. In other words, if she hadn't been able to tank it/endure it by herself, she would've never gotten the chance to regenerate later and then continue on in better condition.

Tsunade's durability is _enhanced_ by her regeneration when she needs it, but it is not _dependent_ on it.

In the Kages vs Madara fight, Tsunade had been penetrated and hit with powerful attacks at point-blank range so many times, it's ridiculous. Not only did she get penetrated by Madara's Susano'o the first time (willingly playing dead, in order to get a chance to strike him easily), she also was penetrated by Madara's Susano'o clones again, this time seemingly twice over, and she was fighting regardless.

Let's acknowledge the fact that if Tsunade had not been a character with immense, off-the-charts durability, she would have never been able to survive those attacks long enough to regenerate. The first Susano'o went straight out her from and through her back -- her spinal cord should've been, by all rights, severed. Same goes, twice over, when she was pierced diagonally by two huge Susano'o swords. She shrugged it off like it was nothing.

Keep in mind that with the two Susano'o swords within her, she shouldn't have been able to regenerate. Why? _Because you cannot regenerate from a wound if the wound is still occupied by what caused it._ If the sword is still piercing, she cannot regenerate that wound, because it is still there. She'd have to take it out to begin the regeneration process -- obviously she's not going to regenerate with two freaking swords stuck in her.

"But wait, LB!" you cry, adamant in your stance. "I recall with scary accuracy a long-ago forgotten manga panel back in the  Rescue Gaara arc where Sakura healed around the wound Sasori's poisoned sword dealt her! So you're wrong, Tsunade _can_ heal around the wound!!"

In that case, you'd still be irrelevant in this discussion. I made no mentions against Tsunade being capable of _healing_ around the wound, but there's a difference between _healing_ and _regenerating_, as Chiyo noted herself. Tsunade also referenced the difference when she revealed Sozou Saisei by stating, _"It's not just mere healing, it's regeneration._"

To further explain and simplify the difference: healing = patching things up, regenerating = making brand new things to replace what you would have had to heal. If you have a broken hand, you can set the bones and begin the healing process. If you lost your hand, you could regenerate a new one. Regeneration is on a whole other level.

To bring it back around, Tsunade doesn't "survive shit" because she regenerates. She survives shit because she has the capability and durability to last long enough and take the brunt of the damage and keep going, and then if it gets too great a damage, _then_ she regenerates.

She isn't dependent on regenerating, she has insane durability as documented many times throughout the manga, though for ease of attacking (since she wouldn't have to worry about dodging or looking for an opening), she can afford to charge straight ahead because of her monstrous strength, monstrous durability, and her trump card, regeneration, if all else fails.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 28, 2013)

> They are standing perfectly within formation in the seal formula, each on the end of one of the four seal formula columns:
> reason
> 
> And than when they get up the flow of chakra to Tsunade stops:
> ...





Again, no. Just no. Stop right there.

Has it occurred to you, Turrin, that the ANBU are there to protect Tsunade while she focuses on healing? Has it occurred to you that, when Pain arrived on the scene, Tsunade stopped healing, and the ANBU stood up (from their advantages point at one facing each of the four, main cardinal directions) to be cautious and prevent any attack from the new threat? And did it ever occur to you that, when Tsunade said, "let's continue", she was referring to their operation of Tsunade healing and the ANBU, oh, I don't know, _fucking going back to protecting her?_ Why are you assuming that Tsunade telling them to go back to their duties as she focused on hers meant more than it did?

There has never been any indication that Tsunade asked for their chakra, Tsunade received their chakra, Tsunade used anyone else's chakra aside from her own, or that the ANBU were in any way invested or involved in the actual healing process. 

There was a threat. She's the Hokage. They want to protect the most important (political) person in the village. Of course in an invasion when you have absolutely no intel on the enemy will the leader have protection on her at all times. That's common sense. But you seemed to think that their presence while Tsunade continues her duties and attempts to stall and minimalize any casualties is indicative of their actual and active participation in healing the denizens of Konohagakure.

No. Stop right there, and let's just pretend this never happened. It's rather tedious to explain why assumptions on your part are rather tedious to disprove, especially when there is nothing in favour of your supported conclusion of the addressed issues, barring your verbose presumptions and lack of any compelling evidence.


----------



## αce (Jun 28, 2013)

lol
so i come to the library and lb posted
yup, argument has been won
everyone go home


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 28, 2013)

I wasn't going to log in, but really. Some things just had to be shut down.


----------



## αce (Jun 28, 2013)

You need to update us so we don't think that you died.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 28, 2013)

That would subvert what I'm actually going for.

But enough off-topic. I've said what I need to say. 

[Insert typical "I'm right, Turrin is wrong, I'm beautiful so it's all okay" speech.]


----------



## kidloco (Jun 29, 2013)

yes sakura had suparse tsuande in everything

every child or studen had to surpase they teacher in they life and sakura had did, the same to emo boy and naruto

sakura is amazing, not like....


----------



## Tsuchi (Jun 29, 2013)

Its sad but true......I'm so depressed now


----------



## Closet Pervert (Jun 29, 2013)

When did Turrin the Sane abandon reason for madness? So Sakura can do one punch in 3 years that's _maybe_ worse than Tsunade's according to someone who died 60 years ago, and summon part of Katsyu. Big deal.

You say fuck timeine because Kishi gives no shits about it but you talk about speed feats as if Kishi gives shit about how fast characters seem to move even when it's someone besides Minato or A. He doesn't. You're talking about "pinnacle" when almost every character has been called something like that in this manga... Name one of the top 10 most important characters besides Iruka who isn't a "pinnacle" or "top level" of something. Of course you haven't even read the raw so you don't know what's actually being said. Sakura may be in the same class as Tsunade in one jutsu but Shizune specifically wasted a panel saying Sakura surpassed _her_ instead of Tsunade, that should tell you something.


----------



## Moloko (Jun 29, 2013)

Sakura has the potential to surpass Tsunade eventually and she's certainly better than Tsunade was at 15-16 years old, but she's not yet as powerful as Tsunade is currently.


----------



## hitokugutsu (Jun 30, 2013)

OP got ethered in his own thread. As usual


----------



## Chibason (Jun 30, 2013)

Lol I always enjoy Turrin's threads, especially the joke threads. :ho


----------



## Hero (Jun 30, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I don't think you read the OP as I proved Sakura has these regenerative abilities and medical jutsu master.



Scans of these so called regenerative abilities please?


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)

LB you goddess


----------



## Rios (Jun 30, 2013)

I am confused now. Sakura is about to be the absolute Tsunade copy, but then again, Tsunade has Senju lineage while Sakura has bullshit lineage. 

A Tsunade with Senju cells > a Tsunade without them.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 30, 2013)

It should be clear-cut common sense that Tsunade is still superior in every facet of a shinobi, both medical and combat-wise, when compared to Sakura.

The only forte Sakura was mentioned to have the potential to surpass Tsunade in was genjutsu, and everyone knows Kishi did not expand upon that. Kakashi said she had the potential to surpass the Fifth because, not only did she have a way to replicate Tsunade's strength, she also was originally a genjutsu-type, so she would've surpassed her by merit of that. 

At the end of the day, Tsunade still has the far more impressive durability, resilience, strength, medical ninjutsu and combat feats than Sakura. Call me back when Sakura can survive being bisected in half, dealing with and keeping multiple Madara's Susano'o clones at bay, and do a boss summon and heal all the Kages while she's on death's door. 

Then, and only _then_, will she be at Tsunade's level of durability and (perhaps) medical prowess, and not above. She'll never have Tsunade's durability or resilience, though, because Tsunade has the far superior body type and lineage, even if we disregard her grandfather, granduncle, and sensei were all the first three Hokages, she's a direct descendant of the Sage of Six Paths himself.

Of course she's going to be a beast. Sakura is descended from...no-named fodder. Unfortunate for her, but she's done well for herself, under Tsunade's miraculous boot-camp tutelage.


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

Quite honestly, I never really was impressed with Tsunade. She's a superb healer and docter. But I think Tenten's a better fighter than her. So, to each his own.


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)

> But I think Tenten's a better fighter than her.





to each his own indeed


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

Tenten grew on me because of the Rock Lee spinoff, then she kicked massive amounts of ass with the Bashosen. Whereas Tsunade got evicerated by a tree. I make no apologies. XD


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 30, 2013)

You make it sound as if Tenten going up against Madara wouldn't have suffered the same fate. You actually make it sound as if Tenten is a better combatant than Tsunade, and would've lasted longer against Madara. 

Need I remind you that Tenten got stomped pre-skip off screen by Temari? Or how she idolizes Tsunade for her combat abilities? And you think she's stronger than Tsunade? 

Cute.


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

Yeah. Pretty much.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 30, 2013)

Come back when you have actual justification for such a belief.


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)

I like Tenten but she got taken out by pre-time skip Temari who got taken out by PTS Sasuke


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

I don't much care for Tsunade's fighting abilities and I think Tenten's is better. All I really need, really.


----------



## LegendaryBeauty (Jun 30, 2013)

Whose fighting abilities you prefer doesn't objectively make them a better combatant in the eyes of the manga. If you prefer Tenten, sure. If you think she's actually stronger than Tsunade based off what we've seen in the manga, then I suggest you link me to whatever fanfiction you're reading. I need to brush up on my summer reading list anyways.


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)

that's just ignorance but okay

tenten has no actual way to kill tsunade

her strongest non-anime ability is a kunai bomb :/ you could count bashosen but she can only use about 2 - 3 attacks before she is passed out from exhaustion


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

So, basically my choices are A) Prove something not shown in the manga, I.e. Tenten beating Tsunade. Or B) Liking a character more than another and thinking they're better due to personal tastes.


Hmm. I'll go with B.

Basically, I don't care for Tsunade as a fighter. I think Tenten is better. I will not change your mind, no matter what I may present or post as "proof", nor will you change my opinion. It boils down to, do I waste time on an Internet argument, or just post my opinion on a forum designed for talking about opinions of Naruto and the characters in the manga. I choose the latter. For this discussion, at least.


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)

there's nothing wrong with liking a character more. We aren't trying to force you to love Tsunade. You was just saying Tenten is a better fighter than Tsunade which she simply isn't.

You may prefer Tenten's style of fighting and good for you if you do. she's not stronger than tsunade and even the tsunade haters will agree.


----------



## emachina (Jun 30, 2013)

And I am completely okay with that.


----------



## Laix (Jun 30, 2013)




----------



## Sango-chan (Jul 1, 2013)

Well............Then!

Even if I consider the last chapters of the manga, I would have to say nay for Sakura. She has the potential to surpass the Godaime Tsunade. Sakura has to have the _wil_l to never settle for less and to get stronger, Just like Sasuke and Naruto.


----------

