# Sakura vs Asuma



## Shizune (Jun 22, 2013)

*Location:* Where Asuma fought Hidan.

*Distance:* 25 meters.

*Knowledge:* Manga.

*State of mind:* In character.

How far have Sakura's new feats taken her?


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## trance (Jun 22, 2013)

If Sakura is said to have surpassed Tsunade, I'm pretty sure she surpassed Asuma. Asuma's main strength lies in taijutsu with his trench knives. It's a powerful fighting style but Sakura is skilled in evasion and her punch seems to have what seems to be city block or multi-city block level AoE DC.


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 22, 2013)

> How far have Sakura's new feats taken her?


She can kill him with a YS cherry blossom.

The shock wave of the strike/fissure would probably shatter his bones, aside from the fact that he, just like those dead Juubi clones, will be utterly meat grinded by the torpedoing bits of mountain shooting up under his feet.


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## Shizune (Jun 22, 2013)

oh my god it's like the punching the ground to hinder balance argument on steroids


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 22, 2013)

> How far have Sakura's new feats taken her?


well ignoring the fact that katsyuu solos...asuma would still stomp sakura before the slug inevitably kills him.

hes faster...
_stronger_.
more skilled.
seasoned.

...and he has twin light sabres so, yeah

.


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## Cucumber Kun (Jun 22, 2013)

As much as i love Asuma , he can't beat Sakura as of right now...


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## joshhookway (Jun 22, 2013)

Asuma is fucked. Saskura punches the ground and sends him in the air. Asuma is slower than Hidan, the slowest villain in the series


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 23, 2013)

As said, a single punch from Sakura towards the ground would result in Asuma being flung up dozens of metres in the air, unable to defend himself - if not incapacitated by the shockwave or the enormous building-sized chunks of rock being launched simultaneously.

Assuming he survived, Sakura will be below, readying a final strike he can't defend against.


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## Bonly (Jun 23, 2013)

Nitty Scott said:


> How far have Sakura's new feats taken her?



She's basically a Tsunade 2.0 while just missing some things Tsunade has as well as lack of feats. The strength she showed against the Juubi fodder might have surpassed anything Tsunade has shown on panel destructive wise as well as having Katsuyu on her side which is strong in its own right. Add her own healing, healing through Katsuyu with her other skills and i'd place her at elite Jounin/Low kage level. 



> *Location:* Where Asuma fought Hidan.
> 
> *Distance:* 25 meters.
> 
> ...



As for the match Sakura would win more times then not once she brings out her seal. The Juubi fodder was about the size of a human or a bit bigger(depending on the fodder) and when she punched the ground she the Juubi fodder locked like tiny ants compared to the huge AoE of her punch. A direct hit will outright kill Asuma and an indirect hit can heavily damage him if not still kill him. Unless Asuma managed to blitz and kill Sakura right off the bat then I don't see him winning more times then not.


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## LostSelf (Jun 23, 2013)

Punching the ground GG,
Katsuyu GG.

One of those popular phrases nowadays .


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Asuma is bearded. *Saskura *punches the ground and sends him in the air. Asuma is slower than Hidan, the slowest villain in the series



// 

 Hidan is the slowest tactician, not his actual mobility . 
U know, his dawdling acrobatics, antagonizing scythe-work & deceptive blood-rituals?

Asuma is just as fast (meh, hes faster) than Sakura....


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## -JT- (Jun 28, 2013)

Asuma wins.

Sakura only punches the ground from the off if there she wants to take out a large number of enemies, or if her enemy is hiding under the ground.
If she does try and tango with Asuma in taijutsu, she gets brutally sliced to bits.
Heck, even if Sakura does fly into the air, ready to come down with her punch of doom, Asuma can spew a Dust Storm in her face as she descends, thus killing her.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mithos (Jun 28, 2013)

Nitty Scott said:


> oh my god it's like the punching the ground to hinder balance argument on steroids



If Asuma has a counter to such a large shockwave unleashed at close range, I'd like to hear it. 




-JT- said:


> Asuma wins.
> 
> *Sakura only punches the ground from the off if there she wants to take out a large number of enemies*, *or if her enemy is hiding under the ground*.
> If she does try and tango with Asuma in taijutsu, she gets brutally sliced to bits.
> Heck, even if Sakura does fly into the air, ready to come down with her punch of doom, Asuma can spew a Dust Storm in her face as she descends, thus killing her.



She was actually pursuing one enemy, but the resulting shockwave affected dozens. And Sakura is extremely intelligent - why wouldn't she use a powerful shockwave to her advantage if she can't match him in CQC otherwise? 

But besides that, Sakura can bring out Katsuyu. If anything, Katsuyu would kill Asuma herself.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 28, 2013)

I would be inclined to say that Asuma still has the advantage. Sakura may have physical strength on her side, but Asuma is a seasoned fighter with superior speed, a deadlier fighting style, better reach and is ultimately an actual martial artist whereas Sakura doesn't have any real skill in her taijutsu. With this, it's more likely that Asuma would be the one to exploit openings in her movements and counter rather than the other way around. _Hien_ has ridiculous reach on top of being invisible, and I don't think Sakura has ever seen him use it either, so she's at a huge disadvantage. She'll dodge an initial swipe and avoid being hit by the actual trench knife, but it's doubtful she'd evade the actual blade of chakra, and that's all it would take.

Unless Sakura has displayed any regenerating feats, I don't think she'll be able to survive if she takes a clean hit from Asuma. She doesn't have his skill, speed, or hidden deadliness. Sakura definitely has all the tools to beat him (summoning, ground smashing for an opening), but none of them are in character for her at the start of a fight. She's almost always just charged in, and that's going to be her downfall here, I think.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mithos (Jun 28, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I would be inclined to say that Asuma still has the advantage. Sakura may have physical strength on her side, but Asuma is a seasoned fighter with superior speed, a deadlier fighting style, better reach and is ultimately an actual martial artist whereas Sakura doesn't have any real skill in her taijutsu. With this, it's more likely that Asuma would be the one to exploit openings in her movements and counter rather than the other way around. _Hien_ has ridiculous reach on top of being invisible, and I don't think Sakura has ever seen him use it either, so she's at a huge disadvantage. She'll dodge an initial swipe and avoid being hit by the actual trench knife, but it's doubtful she'd evade the actual blade of chakra, and that's all it would take.
> 
> Unless Sakura has displayed any regenerating feats, I don't think she'll be able to survive if she takes a clean hit from Asuma. She doesn't have his skill, speed, or hidden deadliness. Sakura definitely has all the tools to beat him (summoning, ground smashing for an opening), *but none of them are in character for her at the start of a fight. She's almost always just charged in, and that's going to be her downfall here, I think*.



Before she formed her seal, her low chakra capacity hindered her options. Now she has the chakra to summon a boss summon, and strike with even more power. 

I don't think it's fair to say she wouldn't use these options because she hasn't before. Before her abilities were constrained and she was unable to use them, or they would be much less effective.


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## Bonly (Jun 28, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I would be inclined to say that Asuma still has the advantage. Sakura may have physical strength on her side, but Asuma is a seasoned fighter with superior speed, a deadlier fighting style, better reach and is ultimately an actual martial artist whereas Sakura doesn't have any real skill in her taijutsu. With this, it's more likely that Asuma would be the one to exploit openings in her movements and counter rather than the other way around. _Hien_ has ridiculous reach on top of being invisible, and I don't think Sakura has ever seen him use it either, so she's at a huge disadvantage. She'll dodge an initial swipe and avoid being hit by the actual trench knife, but it's doubtful she'd evade the actual blade of chakra, and that's all it would take.
> 
> Unless Sakura has displayed any regenerating feats, I don't think she'll be able to survive if she takes a clean hit from Asuma. She doesn't have his skill, speed, or hidden deadliness. Sakura definitely has all the tools to beat him (summoning, ground smashing for an opening), but none of them are in character for her at the start of a fight. She's almost always just charged in, and that's going to be her downfall here, I think.



Can you show me what Asuma has shown in speed to suggest he is faster then Sakura who punched a mini Juubi with her monster strength and then caught up to said Mini Juubi?


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Can you show me what Asuma has shown in speed to suggest he is faster then Sakura who punched a mini Juubi with her monster strength and then caught up to said Mini Juubi?



Can U explain why ''catching up to'' a non-sentient fodderbody, who is essentially caught in her own technique, is a speed feat? when she jumped??

Asuma is said & shown to be fast & elite in CQC.

Sakura is shown to leap brazenly to then cause massive colateral damage.
Then start healing after its distraction & trained in evasion.

Asuma is faster by portrayal
and actual feats of speed are based on interpretation & rarely if ever quantifiable.


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## EdoMangekyou (Jun 28, 2013)

seeing as i think sakura has surpassed tsunade.  id say she pretty much just crushes his skull and destroys him ....


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

EdoMangekyou said:


> seeing as i think sakura has surpassed tsunade.  id say she pretty much just crushes his skull and destroys him ....



but she can crush narutos or minatos skull too...why does her poor/lack of feats become a ...nvrmnd

arbitrarys gonna arbitrary, i guess :S


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## Samehadaman (Jun 28, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Asuma is slower than Hidan, the slowest villain in the series



Yeah, Oboro and Kin Tsuchi would speedblitz Hidan in a second for the easy win...

/sarcasm


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## Bonly (Jun 28, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Can U explain why ''catching up to'' a non-sentient fodderbody, who is essentially caught in her own technique, is a speed feat? when she jumped??



Well lets think about. She sent it flying with her monster strength. Next she caught up to it while it was sent flying. Boom speed feat. 



> Asuma is said & shown to be fast & elite in CQC.



Never said he wasn't.



> Asuma is faster by portrayal
> and actual feats of speed are based on interpretation & rarely if ever quantifiable.



I have yet to see Asuma be shown as faster be it portrayal or feats. If you can provide something good that shows/suggest he is faster then what Sakura showed then that would be nice


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 28, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Can U explain why ''catching up to'' a non-sentient fodderbody, who is essentially caught in her own technique, is a speed feat? when she jumped??
> 
> Asuma is said & shown to be fast & elite in CQC.
> 
> ...



Your bolded sentences contradict each other. If it is non quantifiable interpretation, then Asuma has no feats which show him to be faster than current Sakura. And by portrayal, Sakura is now being portrayed as Sannin level. Indeed, as even having surpassed Tsunade and be to Sasuke and Naruto in strength as Tsunade was to Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Which is to say, weaker than them in combat by a substantial amount, but on level with them. If you want to argue she doesn't have the feats to back that up, fine. But then you have to show that Asuma has some terrific feats of speed against non fodder opponents. For the record, his feats of speed against Hidan actually a less impressive than his DB stats because Hidan is slower than him by DB stats but you couldn't see the difference in speed.

In shounen manga, hitting something and then moving and catching up to it is always a sign of great speed. It was why Lee air juggling Gaara was so impressive. And the more force you hit them with, the faster they are flying away from you. Sakura's regular punch is second to none in terms of how much force it has. Which means that Sakura punching the mini Juubi and catching up to it by leaping after the hit is much like a normal human being throwing  baseball at a hundred miles an hour and then catching their own throw. 

It is is, and has always been in shounen manga, a feat of great speed. And the more powerful the "throw" or hit, the more impressive the speed necessary to catch up is.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Your bolded sentences contradict each other. If it is non quantifiable interpretation, then Asuma has no feats which show him to be faster than current Sakura. And by portrayal, Sakura is now being portrayed as Sannin level. Indeed, as even having surpassed Tsunade and be to Sasuke and Naruto in strength as Tsunade was to Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Which is to say, weaker than them in combat by a substantial amount, *but on level with them. *
> .



there U go keep interpreting.

portayal is seperate from quantifiability.

just as sakura is portrayed as greater overall ninja than he, asuma is portrayed as faster & more skilled in  the area of CQC.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

> Never said he wasn't.


well sakura has not...



Bonly said:


> *I have yet to see Asuma be shown as faster be it portrayal or feats. If you can provide something good that shows/suggest he is faster then what Sakura showed then that would be nice *


*

well i have, sorry that we disagree tho' *


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## Undead (Jun 28, 2013)

The way Asuma intercepted Kakuzu from striking Shikamaru is a small indication of Asuma's speed. That's one example you guys can use.


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 28, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Can you show me what Asuma has shown in speed to suggest he is faster then Sakura who punched a mini Juubi with her monster strength and then caught up to said Mini Juubi?



Because Asuma has higher speed in the databook, and nothing suggests Sakura might have done any speed training since databook three. She'll have been far too busy with all the plot stuff going on to do that.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jun 28, 2013)

^  ''plot stuff'' indeed


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## -JT- (Jun 28, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> She was actually pursuing one enemy, but the resulting shockwave affected dozens. And Sakura is extremely intelligent - why wouldn't she use a powerful shockwave to her advantage if she can't match him in CQC otherwise?


True, but it's possible that her strategy was to punch her first opponent into the crowd so she could kill them all in one fell swoop.



> But besides that, Sakura can bring out Katsuyu. If anything, Katsuyu would kill Asuma herself.


Definitely possible, but as of now, it seems that Sakura only brings her out as a last resort or to heal. So it depends how long the match lasts.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 28, 2013)

Sakura trumps. She knows what she's fighting against - a Jounin sensei. If she feels her CQC abilities will not be sufficient to combat Asuma, then she brings out Katsuyu, who utterly stomps him. 

Sakura could punch the ground and kill Asuma there and then, if she wanted to. Whether or not she would do so from the outset is unknown, but Asuma certainly has no defense against it. She possesses a seal that others seem to have nicknamed the ' Byakugou seal ' so it is perfectly reasonable to assume she can regenerate, and with _three years_ worth of chakra stored up she's going to be incredibly difficult to kill. Her fight against Sasori showed that she is quite resilient, at least enough to take deep cuts and stab wounds and continue fighting, something that will be significantly easier to do whenever she's regenerating herself. 

It should be clear at this point that Sakura is above Asuma.​​


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 28, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> [ If she feels her CQC abilities will not be sufficient to combat Asuma, then she brings out Katsuyu, who utterly stomps him.



I don't think a boss summon has ever been used before against a single opponent who didn't already have a summon out, or was planning to use one. The closest example I can think of is when Naruto use kuchiyose: yatai kuzushi, but that was to take out multiple Zetsu at once. What ever the reason may be, I find it quite unlikely Sakura would use Katsuyu here.



> Sakura could punch the ground and kill Asuma there and then, if she wanted to.



I feel you're slightly underestimating Asuma's taijutsu skill here. His specialty is close quarters, and he has a 4.5 in taijutsu. I don't think he'd get taken out that quickly. And with manga knowledge, he'll know she's been training under Tsunade, and by extension should know of her physical strength. 



> Whether or not she would do so from the outset is unknown, but Asuma certainly has
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jad (Jun 28, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> It should be clear at this point that Sakura is above Asuma.



When she doesn't need Kakashi to help her maneuver a stick falling down, then I will consider thinking about it


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## -JT- (Jun 28, 2013)

Jad said:


> When she doesn't need Kakashi to help her maneuver a stick falling down, then I will consider thinking about it



This.
Sakura has gained some great feats recently, but she also has some not so great ones.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 28, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I don't think a boss summon has ever been used before against a single opponent who didn't already have a summon out, or was planning to use one. The closest example I can think of is when Naruto use kuchiyose: yatai kuzushi, but that was to take out multiple Zetsu at once. What ever the reason may be, I find it quite unlikely Sakura would use Katsuyu here.



I disagree - Orochimaru casually pulls out giant summons all the time. Hiruzen summoned Enma against Orochimaru, and Tsunade was the first one to try and summon in the Sannin fight (her action was likely what instigated the other two Sannin into summoning also). Anyway, I don't actually see any reason why Sakura _wouldn't_ use Katsuyu. Is a very powerful technique with no next to no drawbacks. There's nothing to lose through summoning her.





> I feel you're slightly underestimating Asuma's taijutsu skill here. His specialty is close quarters, and he has a 4.5 in taijutsu. I don't think he'd get taken out that quickly. And with manga knowledge, he'll know she's been training under Tsunade, and by extension should know of her physical strength.



Asuma would probably give her trouble if she challenged him in close quarters for any great length of time, I don't doubt that. However its not like Asuma can actually ensure his victory through doing this, because if he does pressure Sakura so much to the point that she can't connect any hits, then she uses her brains, and punches the ground.



> This has no feats yet, so I'd rather not pull the trigger on regeneration this soon.



Fair enough. I see no reason to hesitate with this though, Sakura is obviously going to surpass her master on-panel soon, there's no reason her regeneration would be for some reason weaker than Tsunade's.



> Not quite so sure what the big deal here is either. She has three years of chakra saved up, sure, but we have no idea how much three years worth of chakra is because we've got nothing to compare it to.



Tsunade stored a few weeks of chakra against Madara and look what she accomplished. With over two and a half years of storage Tsunade could protect all of Konoha from Pein's blast, and there are _a lot_ of people in Konoha. So yes, we do have something to compare it to.



> She'll be getting a lot more than some cuts and stabs against Asuma. _Hien_ wouldn't just give deep cuts; it would maim her. It's a blade of pure chakra, using an element made for piercing.



Of course, but I have confidence that at this point she has the necessary skill to avoid ever getting an arm chopped off. With enough speed to follow a target she pummeled away with her own brute force, and the anticipatory skills that, at the beginning of Part II, were enough to follow Sasori's Satetsu and puppet attacks, and allow her to dodge accordingly, Asuma blitzing her and chopping her head off won't happen.



Jad said:


> When she doesn't need Kakashi to help her maneuver a stick falling down, then I will consider thinking about it



She also has speed feats that mean she obviously could have dodged that. Just because Kakashi helped her, it does not mean she couldn't have dodged herself. Fodders were able to do it, use common sense.​​


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## Mithos (Jun 28, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Because Asuma has higher speed in the databook, and nothing suggests Sakura might have done any speed training since databook three. She'll have been far too busy with all the plot stuff going on to do that.



The DB stat only includes base, phyiscal speed. Shunshin and augmenting speed with chakra - which Sakura has shown she can and will do - are not included in the stat. 



-JT- said:


> True, but it's possible that her strategy was to punch her first opponent into the crowd so she could kill them all in one fell swoop.



It's impossible to be certain I guess, but I don't think she planned it that way personally. 



-JT- said:


> Definitely possible, but as of now, it seems that Sakura only brings her out as a last resort or to heal. So it depends how long the match lasts.



It's true that she brought it out to heal, but she also wasn't really feeling any pressure from the Juubi clones either. I believe that if she thought Asuma's CQC skill was too dangerous for her, she would summon - it's only logical. 

I just can't imagine Sakura, who is supposed to be super smart, not using 2 different tools (ground fissures or Katsuyu) that would safely give her the win and instead letting herself get sliced up and die.


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## Bonly (Jun 28, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Because Asuma has higher speed in the databook, and nothing suggests Sakura might have done any speed training since databook three. She'll have been far too busy with all the plot stuff going on to do that.



Matto-sama pretty much covered this.


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## Olympian (Jun 29, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Asuma is fucked. Saskura punches the ground and sends him in the air. Asuma is slower than Hidan, the slowest villain in the series



Hidan isn`t the slowest villain in the series. 

Sakura`s main speed feat example being brought in catching up with an unquantifiable body that was sent packed backwards by the shockwave of her own punch. 

Asuma was still dodging Hidan`s blade with a stabbed leg, was doding Samehada at close range, intercepted Kazuku when Shikamaru was already down and was doding his entire team without any weapons. These are against characters that we know what are about. The fact she is good at evasion as she should be, means she will make it last for awhile. 

As for a counter of her physical strenght, how about Futton? You punch Futton, you won`t be punching anything else without regeneration.


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## babylinkz (Jun 29, 2013)

saskura loses here
come on guys    ... do we really think because a couple of new pannels that she has improved in anyway? all she did was store chakra for the last 3 yearrrrsss, 

                                         thats three years of prep,


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 30, 2013)

Yeah guys. I mean _god_, all she did was use a city busting level punch that fodderised like 50 Juubi clones, and summon an S Rank boss summon that could solo an entire army.

I mean geez, its not like Sakura has _gotten any stronger_ or anything. Its not like she's being hyped to be on _Naruto and Sasuke's_ level or anything. You guys are such noobs sometimes honestly ​​


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## Olympian (Jun 30, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Yeah guys. I mean _god_, all she did was use a city busting level punch that fodderised like 50 Juubi clones, and summon an S Rank boss summon that could solo an entire army.​




A city busting level punch using chakra she was already storing on her forehead for 3 whole years. If you want to use that you should especify if she has been storing up chakra or not, because that`s the only way her powerup works as an advantage at all. 

Still, geez, is not like Asuma never *outmaneuvered* someone clearly physically stronger than himself before. Kisame, Kazuku (briefly) and Chouji (someone who can now powerup at free will without drawbacks) when the later had the help of Shikamaru and Ino. 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> I mean geez, its not like Sakura has _gotten any stronger_ or anything. Its not like she's being hyped to be on _Naruto and Sasuke's_ level or anything. You guys are such noobs sometimes honestly ​​


The only thing so far she has shown is something everyone agrees: She is clearly physically stronger and got a boss summon. 

But we aren`t discussing boss summons and we already knew she was phsyically stronger to begin with. We know Asuma got examples of outmaneuvering opponents who could knock him out with two punches flat and we know he never end up being knocked out flat just like, due of him using weapons that served as nice counters. 

The shockwave example works as a game ender if Asuma is to be completely oblivious to Sakura`s strenght or the fact she studied under Tsunade (he isn`t). So, shockwave aside, what else she got on her own that we have seen, that isn`t evasion (against Sasori) and getting hit by falling projectiles more than once in the War?​


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jun 30, 2013)

Olympian said:


> A city busting level punch *using chakra she was already storing on her forehead* for 3 whole years. If you want to use that you should especify if she has been storing up chakra or not, because that`s the only way her powerup works as an advantage at all.



Nope, misconception. She had stopped storing chakra in her forehead by that point, which is why her punch grew in strength significantly. She never released the chakra in her forehead - it had nothing to do with her strength boost.



> Still, geez, is not like Asuma never *outmaneuvered* someone clearly physically stronger than himself before. Kisame, Kazuku (briefly) and Chouji (someone who can now powerup at free will without drawbacks) when the later had the help of Shikamaru and Ino.



I'm not sure if you're being spiteful here or what but, there's no reason to be. My sarcasm was directed towards the noob who outright stated Sakura hadn't gotten any stronger. . when thats clearly not true. 

Kisame and Kakuzu don't possess even nearly the level of strength that Sakura's punches pack. He would die instantly if he tried to parry one of Sakura's blows.



> The only thing so far she has shown is something everyone agrees: She is clearly physically stronger and got a boss summon.



Which has subsequently bumped her up a few tiers.



> But we aren`t discussing boss summons and we already knew she was phsyically stronger to begin with. We know Asuma got examples of outmaneuvering opponents who could knock him out with two punches flat and we know he never end up being knocked out flat just like, due of him using weapons that served as nice counters.



Her boss summon is a part of her power. If you aren't discussing it, you should be. Katsuyu would absolutely trash Asuma, so ignoring her as a factor would be dumb. I have no memory of Asuma ever accomplishing what you're suggesting against someone with current Sakura's level of strength. If he tries to parry one of her blows like he did with Kisame etc. then he loses an arm. Yes he's evasive and skilled enough to dodge her blows and land a few cuts, but the moment she punches the ground he's fucked.



> The shockwave example works as a game ender if Asuma is to be *completely oblivious to Sakura`s strenght* or the fact she studied under Tsunade (he isn`t). So, shockwave aside, what else she got on her own that we have seen, that isn`t evasion (against Sasori) and getting hit by falling projectiles more than once in the War?



Which he is. He has no knowledge of Sakura's strength being so huge, even Naruto didn't after she killed all those Juubi fodder. Asuma has never witnessed Part II Sakura fighting firsthand, so his knowledge is limited. Besides punching, she's got a boss summon. But we covered that already.​​


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## Olympian (Jun 30, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Nope, misconception. She had stopped storing chakra in her forehead by that point, which is why her punch grew in strength significantly. She never released the chakra in her forehead - it had nothing to do with her strength boost​




Let`s get this one clarified, because I feel it`s vital somehow. That punch was shown after she mentioned having stored chakra on her forehead for 3 years as per her mentor teached her. 

How is it not related?



Godaime Tsunade said:


> I'm not sure if you're being spiteful here or what but, there's no reason to be. My sarcasm was directed towards the noob who outright stated Sakura hadn't gotten any stronger. . when thats clearly not true



Then my apologies, it seemed it was thrown at the ones saying Asuma had a chance. Still, you did mention she was hyped as being on Sasuke and Naruto`s level, when in truth it`s her own words that put it up. Of course the similarity as new Sannin is drawn, but let`s not take it as automatic gospel, we know the author won`t have her exactly in the same level, at least not without that very particular powerup. 

Kisame and Kakuzu don't possess even nearly the level of strength that Sakura's punches pack. He would die instantly if he tried to parry one of Sakura's blows.

Any of the two can easily punch holes on the ground. Kazuku did that when he hit the Temple of Fire and Kisame was seen drawing a hole with a casual strike of his sword`s tip. Asuma very simply got experience dealing with the type, with the said regarding differences between them. Also, note that my examples aren`t exactly of parried moves but of outmaneuvering opponents able to knock him out flat, like Sakura can.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Her boss summon is a part of her power. If you aren't discussing it, you should be. Katsuyu would absolutely trash Asuma, so ignoring her as a factor would be dumb. I have no memory of Asuma ever accomplishing what you're suggesting against someone with current Sakura's level of strength. If he tries to parry one of her blows like he did with Kisame etc. then he loses an arm



I am not discussing it because unless you are a villain, Summons are used against people who have Summons. In character, she would hardly use it unless she was about to lose a match that meant the cost of her life. 

What Asuma did against Kisame was block and then a dodge and hit game and that was when he knew nothing of the guy. Surely, if he tries to block a punch, he`s done for and likewise If Sakura tries to punch him when he is wielding Futuon (which she can`t see until it`s formed) then the advantage shifts. Sakura is still more one dimensional than him. 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Yes he's evasive and skilled enough to dodge her blows and land a few cuts, but the moment she punches the ground he's​




If he lands cuts then Sakura will automatically try to heal, lose seconds, and be in trouble. If she sends him packing backwards she needs to be fast to finish the job unless he loses conciousness. 



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Which he is. He has no knowledge of Sakura's strength being so huge, even Naruto didn't after she killed all those Juubi fodder. Asuma has never witnessed Part II Sakura fighting firsthand, so his knowledge is limited. Besides punching, she's got a boss summon. But we covered that already.


​
Does he need to see her punch like that when he absolutely knows and is aware that Tsunade herself was her sensei? He knows what her style is (like Tsunade`s but without the crazy regeneration) and knows she`s supposed to be good at evasion since she was trained as a medic.​


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

Databook wise she has shown me nothing telling me she has even gone up from a 3. She is competing with someone who is 1.5 tiers better in taijutsu and 1.5 tiers better in speed. Databook is indeed somewhat outdated so it can not be used exclusively but I think it is an important factor to consider. Both can very well kill the other with one hit. But the one who is way faster and more skilled should have a much higher chance to do it. Asuma also has more experience. He also has access to mid-long range jutsu that she can not just bat away. He can very well set her up for a vicious decapitaiton or whatever he has in mind. Fact is, she has shown me better strength. When I see skill, speed, and healing to match then I will be impressed. Asuma probably wins this currently. If Katsuya becomes a factor in this, then I can honestly see Sakura winning. But Asuma might end it before she comes out. I lean towards Asuma just cause her one time using the summon was to heal.


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## Rokudaime Sennin (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm sorry, but Asuma shouldn't even stand a chance here. It's true that he could've defeated the old Sakura (the one that didn't have the Byakugo no In yet), but the new Sakura is simply on a whole other level, if you ask me, and should absolutely demolish him in combat. For starters, Asuma may be pretty fast on his feet, but I don't think he's fast enough to defeat _Tsunade 2.0_ here. The same Tsunade 2.0 who managed to catch up with a Juubi clone that she had just sent flying with a hit from her absolutely monstrous strength.

The harder you hit something, the faster it should move. Considering that Byakugou Sakura has absolutely enormous strength, enough to the point that a single punch from her could do this level of damage to an area, she must be stupidly fast if she could keep up with something that she had just punched through the air with that level of force. In fact, some people have calculated that the force behind that attack was enough to destroy a town. I'm sorry, but if Sakura can punch something with _anywhere near that level of force,_ that something has to fly pretty damn fast, far faster than Hidan or Kakuzu could ever normally move. Asuma's feats of keeping up with them is irrelevant here, IMHO.

And if Sakura could still catch up to that something, that says a lot about her speed, too. I don't see any of Asuma's attacks harming her, either. A Byakugou user like Tsunade could shrug off attacks from Madara's Susano'o and superpowered Katons, in spite of fighting for an incredibly long amount of time, and in spite of Madara's attacks being vastly superior to anything that Asuma has ever displayed. Sakura easily laughs all of that off, and punches his skull right off his body. If for some reason she can't tag him, she's smart enough to go for Katsuyu instead. Once Katsuyu is involved, it's game over for sure. I don't see Asuma evading Katsuyu's Zesshi Nensan and Sakura's attacks at the same time.

If needs be, Sakura can even power up Katsuyu, just like how Tsunade powered up Onoki during the fight against Madara, and have her fire much bigger blasts of acid, which should enable the slug to catch Asuma and wipe him off the face of earth. Or hell, she could just hide inside of the colossal slug and sip a drink or something while the Jonin attacks Katsuyu in vain, only to eventually tire himself out trying to take down the monstrously durable slug. And Sakura can still heal Katsuyu in case she ever _does_ get damaged, which is still unlikely. I mean, this is still the same slug that tanked exposure to KN6 Naruto's super-corrosive chakra shroud and Chibaku Tensei, only much bigger.

*P.S*. I also forgot that a single punch from Sakura towards the ground could send Asuma shooting high up into the sky, where he's vulnerable to a counter-attack from Sakura who can simply jump up to meet him in the _air_ (where speed differences don't mean shit). I mean, Tsunade could jump above the full height of Manda's body, in spite of him being hundred metres tall, and that too while carrying Gamabunta's building-sized tanto, which should've only weighed her down and made it much harder for her to go high. Her pupil is at least as strong, if not stronger, and she doesn't even have the burden of such a huge and heavy object weighing her down. And she's fast enough to catch up to flying targets. 

Yeah, she stomps this. 

*Victor: Haruno Sakura (easy-difficulty)*


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 1, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> well ignoring the fact that katsyuu solos...asuma would still stomp sakura before the slug inevitably kills him.
> 
> hes faster...
> _stronger_.
> ...



faster? prove it.

stronger? lol wut?

more skilled? only gets you so far.

more seasoned? jiraiya is more seasoned than naruto. naruto slaughters him in a fight.

I'd say sakura wins by punching the ground.

or even better, *SLEEP BOMBS*


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

Rokudaime Sennin said:


> I'm sorry, but Asuma shouldn't even stand a chance here. It's true that he could've defeated the old Sakura (the one that didn't have the Byakugo no In yet), but the new Sakura is simply on a whole other level, if you ask me, and should absolutely demolish him in combat. For starters, Asuma may be pretty fast on his feet, but I don't think he's fast enough to defeat _Tsunade 2.0_ here. The same Tsunade 2.0 who managed to catch up with a Juubi clone that she had just sent flying with a hit from her absolutely monstrous strength.
> 
> The harder you hit something, the faster it should move. Considering that Byakugou Sakura has absolutely enormous strength, enough to the point that a single punch from her could do this level of damage to an area, she must be stupidly fast if she could keep up with something that she had just punched through the air with that level of force. In fact, some people have calculated that the force behind that attack was enough to destroy a town. I'm sorry, but if Sakura can punch something with _anywhere near that level of force,_ that something has to fly pretty damn fast, far faster than Hidan or Kakuzu could ever normally move. Asuma's feats of keeping up with them is irrelevant here, IMHO.
> 
> ...



Tsunade did something similar and she has 3.5 tier speed. Even assuming that this quantifies as a speed feat (she jumped not ran) Sakura has just increased her speed up to Tsunade level.

Asuma has 4.5 tier speed on the same level as Kakashi, Sasuke, Lee, etc. Sakura is  not on the same level of speed. She has shown nothing that qualifies her as being that fast other than a jump that Tsunade has essentially shown. She has shown she can jump as fast as Tsunade. That is all. Don't underestimate Hidan and Kakuzu btw.

Give me feats of Sakura using byakugou. She has shown none. To say she can even use it is speculation at this point. She may be able to use it, but for 2 minutes. You don't know until she uses it so do not include it as part of her power. He could very well kill her before it comes out.

Sakura has not shown such an ability. Stop giving Tsunade's feats to Sakura. This is an IC fight and not only is that an unseen ability for Sakura it would also be OOC. Again hiding inside a slug and "sipping a drink" is OOC. She always charges and punches. Which will get her killed here.

You again continue to give Tsunade's feats to Sakura. Sakura has not shown these things. This is a Sakura matchup. She could launch him into the air punching the ground. Problem with that? She has no byakugan so she won't be able to pursue her target because of the earth and dust. If she chooses to meet him in mid air who do you honestly think wins that? The 4.5 tier speed/taijutsu with longer reach (hien) and a mid-range fuuton (that she can't dodge in mid-air) or the girl that punch extremely hard?

Your arguments prove that you have to give Tsunade's feats to Sakura and ignore Asuma completely for her to win. Ridiculous argument. Especially meeting him in mid-air. One of the most idiotic things should could do.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 1, 2013)

This isn't directed specifically at you Rosencrantz, I'm just leaving it here.

Whether it was a jump or a run is irrelevant. She got from point A to point B without teleporting.

It _is_ a speed feat.

Relying on the databook is faulty because it doesn't take _Shunshin_ into account for speed and I'm certain that's where Tsunade's (meaning likely Sakura's as well) speed feats come from to begin with.

Having a lower statistic doesn't mean that someone can't compete with a person possessing a higher statistic.


On another note: I thought Sakura powered up Darui's attack?


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

^^You don't get how irrelevant it really is. I said even IF it does qualify as a speed feat, it means she has a feat comparable to Tsunade. 3.5 tier speed. Still slower. Will she get blitzed? No. But she is slower so the feat means nothing. I should hope between databooks her speed increases by 0.5. It means nothing in this fight. Maybe nothing is too harsh. It means she will not get blitzed and can actually dodge and react. Nothing to write home about. Considering this is a fight between the two, I should hope she can AT LEAST dodge and react to his attacks.

Sakura has a good shunshin? Never seen it. By that logic Asuma can also use shunshin. It is irrelevant here. The gap still exists. The point is simple: Asuma is faster. And when she charges like an idiot like she always does, she will lose because she is outclassed skill wise, he has better range, just as deadly, mid range attacks, and more experience.

How are you certain? Does it say shunshin? Don't say you are certain when you actually have no idea. And don't attribute being "certain" for Tsunade to being "certain" for Sakura.

Wasn't she healing? If she is powering up then my bad. She can do that then.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 1, 2013)

No, _I_ get it. You seem to have misunderstood the middle of the post or something.

What I'm saying is:

It doesn't matter if the databook says Tsunade has a 3.5 if she performed the feat with a _Shunshin_, because that _Shunshin_ *isn't accounted for* in the 3.5 thanks to being a product of ninjutsu. If Sakura performs a feat comparable to what Tsunade did with a _Shunshin_, then her 3 can't be used to discredit it. Being able to use the same jutsu doesn't denote being just as good at said jutsu. Asuma's ability to use _Shunshin_ wouldn't affect this unless we've seen something to suggest he's any better at it than Tsunade, and we haven't. Asuma has no feats to put him above Tsunade that I'm aware of.

I'm not getting into why I think Tsunade used _Shunshin_ and I don't think we need anything saying it was to conclude such. I don't really care enough to go over it atm, but maybe I'll come back to it later, idk.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

You don't seem to. Maybe I'm the one not understanding.

I realize that. But EVERYONE can use shunshin. So the feat is nulled by the fact that EVERYONE can also use it. So the gap in speed still exists with or without shunshin. It is like saying .5 is added when a shunshin is used but the thing is EVERYONE can also get that .5 added cause they know shunshin too.

In the context of this fight, she is slower than Asuma but only 1 tier (assuming she has indeed gotten faster) gap is not big so she can react. However it is a difference in skill, reach, and experience that gives him the win. She can not pursue him if she launches him in the air. She can not try to go CQC on him cause she will die. Katsuya is the only option to win but she will likely discover that only after she is dead.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm only talking about why I don't think the speed statistic is worth anything, not skill in close-quarters and all that.

Asuma may be able to use _Shunshin_, yeah, but if he's not as good then the gap isn't necessarily going to remain.

If a 3.5 uses an excellent _Shunshin_, they could indeed reach a higher level of speed than a 4.5 using a meh _Shunshin_.

The increase afforded to both wouldn't be the same just because they're using the same jutsu.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 1, 2013)

Sakura did exactly what she did to blitz Ino, who for the record was faster than her by DB stats during the Chunin Exams, except amplified many times over by her profoundly improved ability to release huge amounts of chakra.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> I'm only talking about why I don't think the speed statistic is worth anything, not skill in close-quarters and all that.
> 
> Asuma may be able to use _Shunshin_, yeah, but if he's not as good then the gap isn't necessarily going to remain.
> 
> ...


It is definitely worth something. Because shunshin is irrelevant in consistent CQC fighting. And Sakura is not the type to shunshin around the battlefield. She likes to charge straight at her foe.

Speed is more than point A to point B. Shunshin does not apply to punching speed or kicking speed. Just running speed for a sec. She is still overall slower. And I have yet to see some impressive shunshin speed that makes me think she can overcome a 1-1.5 gap in speed. Not only that but again this would account for point A to point B movement speed for a brief moment and can not be used consistently. This would also require chakra which would just exhaust her. And can she build up chakra in her feet/legs and also her hand and release it? I have yet to see her shunshin while simultaneously punching with her incredible strength. Hell I have hardly ever seen her use shunshin in the first place. No one fights like that anyway just using shunshin and running around the battlefield.

I have the suspicious feeling that the person much faster has the better shunshin. However you are still putting way too much stock into speed just like most of NF. Speed is not even really a factor here as much as the huge gap in skill. Along with the other factors I have mentioned.

Sure it wouldn't. But against shunshin is just point A to point B movement speed so she is still slower when she gets into consistent CQC, Sakura has not shown to have a better shunshin, Sakura does not fight by using shunshin and running around the battlefield (she charges and NO ONE fights like that except maybe Yondaime Hokage or Yondaime Raikage), nor has she shown using a shunshin along with her strong punch. Because both involve chakra and releasing it there may be a reason for that.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 1, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> It is definitely worth something. Because shunshin is irrelevant in consistent CQC fighting. And Sakura is not the type to shunshin around the battlefield. She likes to charge straight at her foe.
> 
> Speed is more than point A to point B. Shunshin does not apply to punching speed or kicking speed. Just running speed for a sec. She is still overall slower. And I have yet to see some impressive shunshin speed that makes me think she can overcome a 1-1.5 gap in speed. Not only that but again this would account for point A to point B movement speed for a brief moment and can not be used consistently. This would also require chakra which would just exhaust her. And can she build up chakra in her feet/legs and also her hand and release it? I have yet to see her shunshin while simultaneously punching with her incredible strength. Hell I have hardly ever seen her use shunshin in the first place. No one fights like that anyway just using shunshin and running around the battlefield.
> 
> ...



. . . . . . . . .

I just said I wasn't talking about how this translates to close-quarters.

So I'm not addressing the above because I never claimed otherwise in the first place.



> I have the suspicious feeling that the person much faster has the better shunshin.



I would disagree.

Faster per the databook is about natural speed, which would be unrelated to (and thus wouldn't necessarily correlate with) unnatural speed achieved by _Shunshin_ because the latter is nothing more than a product of Ninjutsu reliant upon the precise gathering and releasing of chakra rather than physical prowess.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

You said skill in close quarters. As in taijutsu skill. You did not say speed in close quarters. You said speed stat is useless and I am showing you it is not because speed is more than point A to point B. It is punching/kicking. You are contradicting yourself. You can't prove the speed stat is worthless by only talking about one aspect of "speed." You can only do so by talking about every aspect. And I have shown that when I talk about other aspects than moving from point A to point B, it is quite valuable.

Believe Asuma has a higher ninjutsu stat and speed stat. High speed stats tend to translate to fast shunshin speed. Minato, Yondaime Raikage are two fastest shinobi and they are bosses at shunshin. Kakashi/Sasuke have great shunshin and they are 4.5 tier. Itachi has a great shunshin and he is 5 tier. Speed and shunshin correlate. Every example I have just showed you (5 examples) show that shinobi that are very fast also have very fast shunshin. Kishimoto has shown us they correlate.


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## FlamingRain (Jul 1, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> You said skill in close quarters. As in taijutsu skill. You did not say speed in close quarters. You said speed stat is useless and I am showing you it is not because speed is more than point A to point B. It is punching/kicking. You are contradicting yourself. You can't prove the speed stat is worthless by only talking about one aspect of "speed." You can only do so by talking about every aspect. And I have shown that when I talk about other aspects than moving from point A to point B, it is quite valuable.
> 
> Believe Asuma has a higher ninjutsu stat and speed stat. High speed stats tend to translate to fast shunshin speed. Minato, Yondaime Raikage are two fastest shinobi and they are bosses at shunshin. Kakashi/Sasuke have great shunshin and they are 4.5 tier. Itachi has a great shunshin and he is 5 tier. Speed and shunshin correlate. Every example I have just showed you (5 examples) show that shinobi that are very fast also have very fast shunshin. Kishimoto has shown us they correlate.



I also said "and all that". Take that how you will, but since it apparently wasn't taken the way I meant for it to be, I'll be more careful with the wording next time.

You don't think that could also stem from variety and not purely his control over his chakra? Regardless, Sasuke has always been statistically better in ninjutsu than Sakura and the feel I get from Kakashi's words at the Chunin Exam make me think specific aspects of ninjutsu such as precise build up and release (what is used during Shunshin) Sakura had the edge over him in. Like Subtle said, Ino had higher speed, ninjutsu, and even taijutsu statistics and look what happened to her. Minato and Ay _specialize_ in the utilization of _Shunshin_, and at least Ay's is so beast because he's pumping Bijuu levels of chakra into it which 99% of the verse can't do. We've seen Tsunade perform greater feats of speed than people like Orochimaru and base Jiraiya (and Asuma himself, though she has a higher ninjutsu statistic- I'll include it because current Sakura's is likely the same) despite them being statistically above her in that department.

A shinobi being very fast and having a very fast _Shunshin_ doesn't mean that a physically slower shinobi cannot more than compensate and demonstrate an even faster one by virtue of superior application of the particular technique.

Disagree if you want, I've lost interest and don't feel like delving any further into this. I still disagree about an unnatural speed attained via _Shunshin_ and natural speed correlating because of the same reason I provided in my previous post.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

It's fine. I did not really consider what you meant by "all that," so I am somewhat to blame. However, if that is the case, then what does this discussion have to do with the match?

Not sure. Hidan has a 5 in ninjutsu and he has one known ninjutsu (maybe 2 if immortality and ritual are two separate jutsu). But it is just another note along with speed that show Asuma as superior and suggest his shunshin is even more superior. Nothing said debunks the 5 examples of fast ninja also being fast shunshin users. Two of the fastest ninja show that in Minato and A. Tsunade has shown a nice shunshin or two. I hardly remember Orochimaru or Jiraiya even using shunshin. Their shunshin feats are just borderline non existent. Please show me fast shinobi with bad shunshins though. Because every example I am giving is showing the contrary. And show me a slower shinobi having a shunshin on par with someone far faster than him/her. She has not shown to be faster. The databook states the contrary. Ino v. Sakura? Sakura used a bunshin no jutsu to confuse her and in her confusion she used a shunshin to land a quick punch. The key in that situation was bunshin no jutsu. But as I said, if this is not even in the context of a fight, then this is pointless to even discuss when the match is concerned.

The gap in speed is huge (like it is here by whole a tier or more) and the guy has already shown a decent shunshin and she has shown nothing to suggest her shunshin is better. So no you are incorrect. Again this has nothing to do with the fight by your own admission.

That reasoning has already been demolished.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 1, 2013)

crystalblade13 said:


> faster? prove it.


Nah, i dont have to; theres no reason to believe the contrary


> stronger? lol wut?


 yeah, it means he has greater physical might, musculature & athleticism



> more skilled? only gets you so far.


 feats be damned, huh?



> more seasoned? jiraiya is more seasoned than naruto. naruto slaughters him in a fight.


 good for naruto



> I'd say sakura wins by punching the ground.


 I'd say youre entitled to your blindly mis-shapen opinion.



> ]or even better, *SLEEP BOMBS*



 GO! plot-SAKURA!!  Using sneak-friendly-fire as your best feats of vs non-fodder combat FTW!!!


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 2, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> Nah, i dont have to; theres no reason to believe the contrary
> yeah, it means he has greater physical might, musculature & athleticism
> 
> feats be damned, huh?
> ...



Then the speed debate is pointless. 

he's not stronger. unless you're trying to say "lol, sakuras punches are better cause chakra, so it doesnt count as physical strength" , which is COMPLETELY pointless seing as she always enhances her strength with chakra. and i doubt the athleticism claim too.

skill is important, but im saying that sakura doing something as simple as punching the ground could kill asuma, so the skill may not come into play.

you know where i was getting at with the battle experiance comment.

feats be damned, with the sleep bombs, huh?


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 2, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> And I have yet to see some impressive shunshin speed that makes me think she can overcome a 1-1.5 gap in speed. Not only that but again this would account for point A to point B movement speed for a brief moment and can not be used consistently. This would also require chakra which would just exhaust her. And can she build up chakra in her feet/legs and also her hand and release it? I have yet to see her shunshin while simultaneously punching with her incredible strength.



At the Chunin Exams, Sakura had a DB stat of 1.0 in speed. Ino had a DB stat of 2.5 in speed.

Observe what happened when Sakura pumped chakra through her legs. She blitzed Ino. And she did that by taking advantage of her superior chakra control. And don't say it's because of the Bunshin, because Ino wasn't so much confused as shock by Sakura's speed. That is why she said "fast!"

Now consider that the difference between Sakura then and Sakura now as heaven and earth. If she had focused all her chakra to her hands back then, how much stronger do you think her punch would have been? I think we can all agree that it would be as nothing compared to the start of Part II, much less now. So doesn't it follow that she would have the same skill she did at the chunin exams, only many, many, many times better? A 1.5 distance in speed should be irrelevant.

And as a matter of fact, we know her chakra enhanced speed is that much greater. The harder you hit someone, the faster they move away from you. Chunin Exams Lee was plenty strong (he could uproot a tree in base) and with the fourth gate, he should have been even stronger. His  physical strength was emphasized alongside his taijutsu skill (both secondary to his speed). What was his fourth gate speed feet of note? Hitting Gaara with that incredible power and catching up to hit him again.

Now let's consider the fact that Sakura is vastly stronger than Chunin Exams fourth gate Lee (who for the record, had a speed of four in base). So when she punches the Juubi, it is flying far faster than Gaara was, but she still managed to catch up. It is a classic way of showing incredible speed and it is clearly greater than Lee with the fourth gate in the chunin exams. And unless you propose she did that with base speed, then she clearly user her chakra strength, then chakra speed, and then chakra strength again in rapid succession so your point that she can't do that falls flat.

And of course the notion she is going to "exhaust herself" seems silly. How long did she fight Sasori, using her chakra enhanced strength to do so, again? And that was at that the start of Part II. She has clearly improved. Furthermore, let's stop relying on outdated DB stats and assumptions for the limitations of the rookies. The notion she is incompetent in close combat shouldn't be taken for granted.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 2, 2013)

crystalblade13 said:


> Then the speed debate is pointless.


I absoluetly agree. 
while i think asuma could straight blitz her, i dont think he would, i dont think he needs to considering his superior CQC & its just a tasteless arguement


> he's not stronger.


 of course he is...



> unless you're trying to say "lol, sakuras punches are better cause chakra, so it doesnt count as physical strength" , which is COMPLETELY pointless seing as she always enhances her strength with chakra.


Hien>>>Oukashou



> and i doubt the athleticism claim too.


 lol? 



> skill is important, but im saying that sakura doing something as simple as punching the ground could kill asuma, so the skill may not come into play.


No, it wouldnot kill asuma. asuma isnt biologically linked to the earths cru- why do you just make things up!?

_*''...so the skill may not come into play.''*_

cuz ninja matches are decided by reiatsu, right? 



> you know where i was getting at with the battle experiance comment.


no. i dont...



> feats be damned, with the sleep bombs, huh?



ROCK LEE WAS NOT FIGHTING SAKURA--SLEEP BOMBS ARE FEATLESS IN ACTUAL COMBAT--THEY ARENT VIABLE AGAINST POST-GENIN SHINOBI.
plot wont save Osakura-chan in the NBD...


.


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 2, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> I absoluetly agree.
> while i think asuma could straight blitz her, i dont think he would, i dont think he needs to considering his superior CQC & its just a tasteless arguement
> of course he is...
> 
> ...



were done with the speed stuff then.

 hien is a jutsu. when i say "stronger", im talking about physical strength.

lets see, sakura was skillfuly evading poison needles, satetsu, and hundreds of puppets ( chiyo even said sakura didnt need her help to accomplish this). and medical ninjas are trained FROM THE GET-GO to be evasive.

what the hell agility and athleticism has has asuma shown? he dodged hidan a few times (hidan admits he's not that fast) . 

 kay, that cuts it. stop playing dumb. sakura punching the ground caused multiple large building sized chuncks of earth to shoot out of the ground at high speed. getting hit by one of those can kill you. ask the juubabies. also, it had MASSIVE AOE.

then ignore the comment, cause you're just going to continue to play dumb and im not gonna waste my time repeatedly trying to 
explain something obvious to you.

That whole last sentence being in caps sure makes you seem credible. sleep bombs and poison kunai are a part of her arsenal, and she can use them as she damn well pleases. would she in this fight? likely not. so she'll just punch the ground like always and win that way. its far more IC.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 2, 2013)

*I stopped right here...*



crystalblade13 said:


> * hien is a jutsu*. when i say "stronger", im talking about physical strength.



 im done.( i knew i was wasting my breath) 

Sakura hasnt been revealed to be a senju... (And U prolly have no idea what im implying do U?) 

good night, thanks for bothering  *crystalblade 13*


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## crystalblade13 (Jul 2, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> im done.( i knew i was wasting my breath)
> 
> Sakura hasnt been revealed to be a senju... (And U prolly have no idea what im implying do U?)
> 
> good night, thanks for bothering  *crystalblade 13*



senju's are physically powerful.

yes, sakura uses chakra to enhance her pysical strength. but i've never seen her punch without doing it since part 2 started.

asuma on the other hand, does not always use hien, and hien doesnt inrease his pysical strength. latent chakra put into punches and jutsu like hien are not the same thing,

oh, and nice job countering my other points.


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## Rokudaime Sennin (Jul 2, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> Tsunade did something similar and she has 3.5 tier speed. Even assuming that this quantifies as a speed feat (she jumped not ran) Sakura has just increased her speed up to Tsunade level.



Are you seriously using Databook stats in a speed argument? In the Databook, speed only refers to pure physical speed. It doesn't account for chakra-enhanced speed, which is actually a technique, aka Shunshin no Jutsu. You're also forgetting the fact that in spite of being an entire tier above Tsunade in speed, Orochimaru got blitzed by her once. 

The only other characters to have replicated this feat are Itachi and Kyuubi Naruto. Also, Byakugou Tsunade managed to attack Madara's Susano'o in tandem with a super-lightened Yondaime Raikage, if you recall. In spite of a massive tier gap between the two in pure physical strength (with Sakura only having a 3 in strength, and Tsunade having a 5, that's an unprecedented gap of two tiers, honestly) Sakura's chakra-enhanced strength managed to surpass Tsunade's own chakra-enhanced strength. When it comes to pure physical speed, on the other hand, they're not so far apart all. Tsunade is only slightly faster than Sakura, having a 3.5 in the stat while Sakura has a 3. A marginal difference.

I already proved that Sakura can amp up her physical attributes to a much greater extent than Tsunade can, as in spite of Tsunade having much higher physical strength in base, Sakura's chakra application actually makes her hit a hell lot harder than her sensei. If her chakra application can enable her to bridge such a massive gap in strength, what makes you think it can't do the same for speed, too? And as I noted above, the speed gap between them in base is much lower than their strength gap in base. So if they both apply chakra enhancements to their speed, Sakura would be able to clearly and quite casually outspeed her own sensei. But there's more to it. Allow me to explain, friend.

Tsunade managed to blitz Orochimaru, in spite of lying on the ground, in spite of her only gradually recovering from haemophobia, and in spite of all the injuries that she had just taken from Orochimaru's Kusanagi no Tsurugi - all of which should've made her a lot slower in terms of attacking speed. This is all in spite of Oro being an entire tier above Tsuna in terms of speed (4.5 > 3.5). As you've said yourself, Asuma _also_ has a 4.5 in speed, so _at most_ he should be in the same speed ballpark as the snake Sannin. Yet Tsunade managed to blitz someone that is _at least_ as fast as Asuma. And for the reasons I've given above, Sakura is even faster than that same Tsunade. _Much_ faster, I may add.

If you didn't understand my logical deductions, then perhaps I can explain this to you in a different format.

*In terms of Databook strength - Sakura has a 3, Tsunade has a 5. Therefore, Tsunade's unboosted physical strength > Sakura's unboosted physical strength.*

*In terms of practical strength (with both Sakura and Tsunade having applied chakra to enhance the strength of their hits) - Sakura has surpassed that same Tsunade. Therefore, her actual strength score should be a 5. So, it can be inferred that Sakura's chakra boosts have made her go up by two tiers in practical strength.*

*In terms of Databook speed - Sakura has a 3, Tsunade has a 3.5, Asuma has a 4.5, and Orochimaru has a 4.5.

Tsunade has blitzed Orochimaru and successfully managed to pace with a lightened Yondaime Raikage, or at the very least, a flying Onoki, who is equal to an airborne Deidara in terms of speed - the same Deidara that evaded an entire desert. Either of those feats should put her practical speed at a 4.5, just like Asuma and Orochimaru themselves. Sakura is only a 0.5 tier below Tsunade in speed. If you apply that same two tier enhancement I was mentioning above to her speed, it should be a 5 (3 + 2 = 5, lol). That makes her faster than Orochimaru, Tsunade and Asuma. I know this may be too much for you to stomach, but please try to do so.*

In terms of speed, she isn't on Tsunade's level. Quite the opposite, she is actually far faster than her Sannin tutor. And Asuma, to boot. She can blitz him.

According to the 3rd Databook, Sasuke, Neji and Deidara are all on the same speed tier. Going by feats, though, Neji couldn't even lay a finger on an armless Deidara, even with the support of Team Gai. In spite of having arms, though, that same Deidara nearly got blitzed by Sasuke a couple of times. According to the 1st Databook (IIRC), Sakura was an entire speed tier below Ino, yet successfully blitzed her with Shunshin during the Chunin Exams arc. I'm sorry, but Sakura actually specializes in this chakra-enhanced physical shit. Speed wise, there is absolutely no way for Asuma to give Sakura trouble here. If anything, it's the latter who is going to blitz the former. For reasons given above.



Rosencrantz said:


> Asuma has 4.5 tier speed on the same level as Kakashi, Sasuke, Lee, etc. Sakura is not on the same level of speed. She has shown nothing that qualifies her as being that fast other than a jump that Tsunade has essentially shown. She has shown she can jump as fast as Tsunade. That is all. Don't underestimate Hidan and Kakuzu btw.



Jumping speed is still a form of speed. I'm not underestimating Hidan or Kakuzu, you're the one that's overestimating them. I don't think you remember the fact that Kakuzu got blindsided by Kotetsu and Izumo, so he's not as fast or as reflexive as you claim he is. Hidan is also the slowest attacker in Akatsuki, which makes him slower than Sasori. The same Sasori that Sakura blitzed with a simple thrown projectile, and that too before gaining access to Byakugou. Even if she can't tag Asuma in CQC for some reason, she can simply just throw a kunai at his skull and be done with it. He can't react to her doing even that, with the level of strength that she possesses at present. He dies.

And one more thing - Sasori, like Asuma, also had a 4.5 in terms of speed. And this is Start of Part II Sakura that tagged him, not even the faster version that we're seeing at present. She also tagged him physically at one point, even without a weapon. Something that Chiyo clearly couldn't do, in spite of being only half a tier below Asuma in terms of speed. Looks like the guy's so-called speed advantage over her was non-existent after all. It's just that people on NF hate Sakura too much to see her successes for what they truly are, I'm afraid. 

Also, Asuma isn't as fast as Kakashi or Sasuke. In fact, he is _nowhere_ as fast as either ninja.

Asuma struggled against Hidan and Ino-Shika-Cho. Kakashi stood his ground against the likes of Neo Pain and Obito. Sasuke soloed an entire army of sound ninja, even without trying to kill them - that's something that Asuma couldn't really be expected to do. If Lee opens the Hachimon, he is also far and away faster than the Jonin sensei.



Rosencrantz said:


> Give me feats of Sakura using byakugou. She has shown none. *To say she can even use it is speculation at this point.* She may be able to use it, but for 2 minutes. You don't know until she uses it so do not include it as part of her power. He could very well kill her before it comes out.



Are you kidding me? Shizune and Katsuyu made it clear that Sakura could use Byakugou. 

In any case, even if Byakugou lasts for only two minutes, that's more than enough time for Sakura to kill Asuma here. There's no need for feats, because we know that she has the technique, and because it's hardly even necessary for her to defeat Asuma. In fact, she doesn't need it to beat him at all. She's that much stronger than he is.



Rosencrantz said:


> Sakura has not shown such an ability. Stop giving Tsunade's feats to Sakura. This is an IC fight and not only is that an unseen ability for Sakura it would also be OOC. Again hiding inside a slug and "sipping a drink" is OOC. She always charges and punches. Which will get her killed here.



What are you talking about? Asuma can't even harm Sakura here. She's going to regenerate any wound that he inflicts on her. 

So charging and punching is only going to get _Asuma_ killed here.



Rosencrantz said:


> You again continue to give Tsunade's feats to Sakura. Sakura has not shown these things. This is a Sakura matchup. She could launch him into the air punching the ground. Problem with that? She has no byakugan so she won't be able to pursue her target because of the earth and dust. If she chooses to meet him in mid air who do you honestly think wins that? The 4.5 tier speed/taijutsu with longer reach (hien) and a mid-range fuuton (that she can't dodge in mid-air) or the girl that punch extremely hard?



Giving Tsunade's feats to Sakura is hardly illogical, considering the fact that Sakura has a stronger seal than her master's own, doesn't need to use any of its chakra to make her body look young, and superior chakra control to boot. In any case, she's simply a superior version of Tsunade, and who said she'd need the Byakugan to keep up with someone in the air? Once Asuma is in the air, there is no earth or dust to hide him, so Tsunade 2.0 can easily soar up into the sky and punch him to death without any trouble whatsoever.

Also, who says she has to dodge anything? 

She can just charge through the attack, regenerate any injuries inflicted through Byakugou, and crush Asuma's skull. 



Rosencrantz said:


> Your arguments prove that you have to give Tsunade's feats to Sakura and ignore Asuma completely for her to win. Ridiculous argument. Especially meeting him in mid-air. One of the most idiotic things should could do.



I'm not ignoring Asuma completely. It's just that he can't even hope to harm Sakura. You're the one who's being ridiculous, by attempting to argue that some of his measly Fuutons and Katons can do what Susano'o and Madara's Katons respectively failed to do. Sakura is a stronger Tsunade, going by feats. That alone is too much for Asuma to handle.


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## Olympian (Jul 3, 2013)

crystalblade13 said:


> what the hell agility and athleticism has has asuma shown? he dodged hidan a few times (hidan admits he's not that fast)



So, in order for Sakura to win the agility argument here, we have to kind of downrate Hidan as again "not that fast or the slowest of" despite having no problem tagging someone with Sharigan (that someone being Kakashi) while employing a kind of range that we can tell he was not use to fighting as much (no rope, no spears). 

"he dodged Hidan a few times". No, he dodges Hidan a few times, he blitzed a whole squad before they did anything at all, he covered a bigger distance and blocked Kazuku when Shikamaru fell and was seen dodging Samehada at *face* range. We also saw him dodging shadows sewing while moving to someone`s direction (Choji) and being busy performing seals for a coming attack.


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## Olympian (Jul 3, 2013)

Rokudaime Sennin said:


> What are you talking about? Asuma can't even harm Sakura here. She's going to regenerate any wound that he inflicts on her.



Examples that showcase/indicate Sakura pulling that off.



Rokudaime Sennin said:


> I'm not ignoring Asuma completely. It's just that he can't even hope to harm Sakura. You're the one who's being ridiculous, by attempting to argue that some of his measly Fuutons and Katons can do what Susano'o and Madara's Katons respectively failed to do. Sakura is a stronger Tsunade, going by feats. That alone is too much for Asuma to handle.



Katons and Susanoo are not Futton. Different nature of attacks. 

For example, we know Asuma can use his Katon as diversion tactic and then Futton right away, he tried that against Hidan. 

Sakura does not have the kind of agility and tactical display to ignore these kind of diversions just by punching the ground open.  Not when said opponent got a record of actually *outmaneuvering* way physically stronger opponents like that with especific intel (Choji) or none (Akatsuki).


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 3, 2013)

Hidan never tagged Kakashi.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jul 3, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Let`s get this one clarified, because I feel it`s vital somehow. That punch was shown after she mentioned having stored chakra on her forehead for 3 years as per her mentor teached her.
> 
> How is it not related?



It is _related_. But you've misunderstood what Sakura said, perhaps by virtue of a crappy translation. To quote Sakura, after she activates her seal she says something along the lines of - _" Looks like I've finally finished charging. Now . . I can finally release my full power!! "_. However, Sakura never actually _released_ her seal, so obviously her " real power " was not the seal itself, but rather the fact that she had stopped charging chakra into her seal meant she could put all her focus into her strikes instead. This is what she meant by her ' real power ' - it is her normal super strength but no longer burdened by having a large portion of her chakra channeled for seal storage.

This is a speculation but, it would be reasonable to assume that this is why Sakura never summoned Katsuyu until after activating her seal. Conjuring boss summons consumes a lot of chakra, something we thought Sakura did not have throughout Part II. However, now that we know she was storing part of her chakra away in her forehead all that time, it makes sense why she wouldn't have had sufficient energies. Perhaps this is also why Tsunade expressed shock that Katsuyu had been summoned onto the battlefield - she never would have expected Sakura to activate the Yin seal and regain the sufficient chakra reserves to summon her.



> Then my apologies, it seemed it was thrown at the ones saying Asuma had a chance. Still, you did mention she was hyped as being on Sasuke and Naruto`s level, when in truth it`s her own words that put it up. Of course the similarity as new Sannin is drawn, but let`s not take it as automatic gospel, we know the author won`t have her exactly in the same level, at least not without that very particular powerup.



I'm obviously not of the belief that Sakura is with her team-mates based on feats, but its something Kishimoto clearly wants the readers to believe. Bare in mind Sakura's mainly just been healing the army so far, she's barely shown off her combat skills.



> Any of the two can easily punch holes on the ground. Kazuku did that when he hit the Temple of Fire and Kisame was seen drawing a hole with a casual strike of his sword`s tip. Asuma very simply got experience dealing with the type, with the said regarding differences between them. Also, note that my examples aren`t exactly of parried moves but of outmaneuvering opponents able to knock him out flat, like Sakura can.



Uhh, neither of them can punch holes the size of ones Sakura can punch. I believe Kisame made a bit of _dent_ in the ground with his sword, and while Kakuzu kicking down an iron door was somewhat more impressive, its still child's play compared to Sakura. . Actually, your examples of Asuma's ability to " outmaneuver " foes haven't been specific at all. I remember Asuma struggling to _block_ Kisame's blow (and ultimately _getting hit_ regardless). He managed to land a cut on Kisame eventually, but that was it. A cut is barely going to slow Sakura down at all. As for Kakuzu, I don't believe Asuma ever even fought him in CQC.

Most of what Asuma did against Hidan involved blocking and parrying hits. [1] [2] and when he was revived as an Edo _all_ he did was parry and block blows [3] [4] [5] [6]



> I am not discussing it because unless you are a villain, Summons are used against people who have Summons. In character, she would hardly use it unless she was about to lose a match that meant the cost of her life.



So characters only use summons against other characters who can counter them with their own summons? Seems legit.

This is the first time we've seen Sakura use Katsuyu, and in fact, this is the first battle Sakura had had in a long time. We don't even know if she could summon Katsuyu prior to this. Who are we to go about claiming what is and isn't IC for her to do? If Asuma pressurises her, she will definitely summon Katsuyu, she isn't going to randomly choose not to because it just " isn't IC " .



> What Asuma did against Kisame was block and then a dodge and hit game and that was when he knew nothing of the guy. Surely, if he tries to block a punch, he`s done for and likewise If Sakura tries to punch him when he is wielding Futuon (which she can`t see until it`s formed) then the advantage shifts. Sakura is still more one dimensional than him.



Except Sakura won't try to block. Sakura's entire taijutsu style revolves around prediction and moving in accordance with the direction of her opponents blows. Asuma's is all about slicing and parrying blows - that isn't to say he cannot evade or that he hasn't done so in the past, but he doesn't specialise in it. 



> *If he lands cuts then Sakura will automatically try to heal, lose seconds, and be in trouble*. If she sends him packing backwards she needs to be fast to finish the job unless he loses conciousness.



No she won't. She took a crap load of damage while fighting Sasori and her first action wasn't to heal herself, at least not whenever her opponent was still throwing blows at her. She fought through the damage in those instances, and only once she'd disposed of the threat did she begin to heal her wounds. Her healing is speedy and advanced anyway, she's only going to need a few seconds to heal cuts and slashes.



> Does he need to see her punch like that when he absolutely knows and is aware that Tsunade herself was her sensei? He knows what her style is (like Tsunade`s but without the crazy regeneration) and knows she`s supposed to be good at evasion since she was trained as a medic.



I doubt it, but if Asuma knows he's dealing with someone who can kill him with one hit is there any guarantee he's even going to stay in close proximity with her over prolonged periods? He's great with ranged ninjutsu too, and he's unaware of the extent of her evasive skills. Shizune is a medic, as is Ino, but their evasive skills pale in comparison. Of course ranged ninjutsu wouldn't work either, but Asuma doesn't know that.​​


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## Eliyua23 (Jul 3, 2013)

Why is Sakura vs Asuma 4 pages , her punches has been said to be stronger than Tsunade and Asuma doesn't have the neccessary speed or durability to counter her punch,

Sakura should win this with ease.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 3, 2013)

Rokudaime Sennin said:


> Are you seriously using Databook stats in a speed argument? In the Databook, speed only refers to pure physical speed. It doesn't account for chakra-enhanced speed, which is actually a technique, aka Shunshin no Jutsu. You're also forgetting the fact that in spite of being an entire tier above Tsunade in speed, Orochimaru got blitzed by her once.
> 
> The only other characters to have replicated this feat are Itachi and Kyuubi Naruto. Also, Byakugou Tsunade managed to attack Madara's Susano'o in tandem with a super-lightened Yondaime Raikage, if you recall. In spite of a massive tier gap between the two in pure physical strength (with Sakura only having a 3 in strength, and Tsunade having a 5, that's an unprecedented gap of two tiers, honestly) Sakura's chakra-enhanced strength managed to surpass Tsunade's own chakra-enhanced strength. When it comes to pure physical speed, on the other hand, they're not so far apart all. Tsunade is only slightly faster than Sakura, having a 3.5 in the stat while Sakura has a 3. A marginal difference.
> 
> ...


Yes. Orochimaru did not have arms, dropped his guard, and that was Tsunade not Sakura.

Tsunade is not Sakura. This is Sakura. Sakura was never said to be stronger. Try again.

Sakura was not said to hit harder. This refers to strength not speed. Never has it been noted that it enhances her speed to huge levels. So try again.

Tsunade is not Sakura. Terrible example. Tsunade never blitzed. She landed a hit. Every hit that is landed is not a blitz. You proved nothing. Tsunade is not Sakura.

Sakura has not surpassed Tsunade's strength. Was never said. Don't make things up.

Strength enhancement is not the same as speed enhancement. Your logic is flawed. Again, landing a hit on Orochimaru without arms is not blitzing. By that logic, why did she not blitz Kabuto? He is a tier slower. She should have blitzed him. But she didn't. Which destroys your entire argument. Every hit you land in a fight is not a blitz. Be smarter please. Oh and those are Tsunade's feats. Not Sakura's. Try again. 

Oh and analyze your own argument for a second.* Your argument: Tsunade can blitz 4.5 tier speed. Sakura is way faster. By your logic if Sakura is way faster than she should be able to blitz 5 tier speedsters and beyond. You think it makes sense that Sakura can blitz Yondaime Raikage, Killer Bee, Gai, Itachi, Kakashi, etc? You honestly think that? You sound extremely delusional.*

Neji was exhausted from fighting. Deidara dodged an attack from Neji. Both have 4.5 tier speed. Makes sense to me. Sakura did not blitz. She landed a hit after distracting her with bunshin no jutsu. So you are wrong on both accounts. Try again.

Kakuzu was blindsided. He does not have byakugan. He can not see when people attack him from behind. Kakuzu also blindsided Kakashi. Your point? 

Sakura never blitzed Sasori. He avoided the attack while fighting Chiyo at the same time. Stop saying really dumb comments. It is annoying. Actually I'm done responding. You are not intelligent enough for me to bother having an argument with.

Edit: Just so you know, you are a terrible poster. Please stop wasting space on this thread. And for future, don't give Tsunade's feats to Sakura, give feats to Sakura she has not shown, and learn what the definition of an actual blitz is. And I repeat, stop posting. For the sake of Naruto Fan.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 3, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> At the Chunin Exams, Sakura had a DB stat of 1.0 in speed. Ino had a DB stat of 2.5 in speed.
> 
> Observe what happened when Sakura pumped chakra through her legs. She blitzed Ino. And she did that by taking advantage of her superior chakra control. And don't say it's because of the Bunshin, because Ino wasn't so much confused as shock by Sakura's speed. That is why she said "fast!"
> 
> ...



Indeed.

Did you look at the scan you posted? She had to distract Ino with bunshins to land the hit. It was fast but the bunshins also played a role. She clearly said she had to look closely to try and determine the real one. Both were factors. Don't just pick one cause you think it helps your argument. If it was just the speed, then the bunshins would not even have been needed. But they were. I expect more from you. 

This is why it is important to read people's arguments before you respond to them. I already said the speed difference does not matter here. What gets her killed is every other disadvantage i.e. skill, reach, tactics, and experience. Again I expect more from you.

Sure.

Huge difference. Sakura's target hit rocks, other juubi clones, etc thus it slowed down. It also took her far longer to catch up with her target than it took Rock Lee to catch up with his. These factors make your point fall flat. So sorry you have been proven wrong.

I am not going to bother rereading the fight but what maybe 7-8 chakra punches before she was spent? And some medical ninjutsu? Now you are adding a shit ton of shunshin to the mix? And fighting someone faster and more skilled? You failed to prove your point. She has shown no speed or skill improvement so they work for her that's for sure.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 3, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> Why is Sakura vs Asuma 4 pages , her punches has been said to be stronger than Tsunade and Asuma doesn't have the neccessary speed or durability to counter her punch,
> 
> Sakura should win this with ease.



Why is Sakura vs Asuma 4 pages , his slashes has been said to be sharper than Mifunes and Sakura doesn't have the neccessary speed or skill to counter his swings,

Asuma should win this with ease.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jul 3, 2013)

Rosencrantz, I don't know when you became such an abrasive "stop posting, you're an idiot, you have been proved wrong" type poster, but frankly, I expect more from you. (And if you are going to condescend to me in such a fashion, then I suggest you do what you say you are going to do to other posters and just stop responding. It's noxious and does nothing for your argumentation other than make you sacrifice balance for aggressiveness.)


Rosencrantz said:


> Did you look at the scan you posted? She had to distract Ino with bunshins to land the hit. It was fast but the bunshins also played a role. She clearly said she had to look closely to try and determine the real one. Both were factors. Don't just pick one cause you think it helps your argument. If it was just the speed, then the bunshins would not even have been needed. But they were. I expect more from you.



Bunshins mattered, sure, but what Ino chose to comment upon was the speed, which means that played a more decisive role. And when two characters in the same ballpark of ability fight, or watch each other fight, and one of them makes a note of commenting how fast the other person is, that has always meant (so far as I have ever seen) the other person was faster than them. Which means that Sakura was moving faster than someone 1.5 tiers above her in DB speed. 


> This is why it is important to read people's arguments before you respond to them. I already said the speed difference does not matter here. What gets her killed is every other disadvantage i.e. skill, reach, tactics, and experience. Again I expect more from you.



You did say that, but I don't see why that logically follows. Sure, speed might not matter if Sakura is as slow as you maintain, but if you are wrong, then it might. 


> Huge difference. Sakura's target hit rocks, other juubi clones, etc thus it slowed down. It also took her far longer to catch up with her target than it took Rock Lee to catch up with his. These factors make your point fall flat. So sorry you have been proven wrong.



The terrain was flat, so there were no rocks. And sure, it may be that hitting other Juubi clones slowed it down, but it was still flying so fast that a rather massive dust trail was being blown up under it. My point never depended on reaching her target before Rock Lee reached his. My point was that hitting your target and then catching it and hitting again has always been a show of great speed. Furthermore, since Sakura hits many times harder than Lee, her target should have been flying many times faster. Of course she didn't catch up as fast, because that would imply she was _way_ faster than four gated Lee. If Lee was a 4 in base speed and even Kakashi was going on about how fast he was in four gates, he probably was somewhere around a 5 in speed at that point. I am not suggesting that Sakura is now a 7 in speed or something. 


> I am not going to bother rereading the fight but what maybe 7-8 chakra punches before she was spent? And some medical ninjutsu? *Now you are adding a shit ton of shunshin to the mix? And fighting someone faster and more skilled?* You failed to prove your point. She has shown no speed or skill improvement so they work for her that's for sure.



She shattered Hiruko, Sasori's body, the Sandaime Kazekage, knocked back a couple Satetsu blocks (possibly more than that since some of the fight got off paneled), and then smashed a bunch of Sasori's puppets. She probably got ten to twelve hits in plus some medical ninjutsu, which is apparently quite draining. And the thing is, she was doing that while chakra was also being directed to her seal. She no longer has that disadvantage and has considerably more chakra than before. Which is why she is able to summon Katsuya. 

I don't know how the bolded part is even relevant to my point. I was talking about her fight with Sasori to make a point about her ability to keep that up even before she had more chakra like she does now. Not to talk directly about Asuma. Based on what you are saying to me and above, you are suggesting that Sakura is no faster, no more skilled, has no more stamina, and hasn't even improved that much in strength. I don't know where you are getting these ideas from. She has clearly become stronger than Tsunade. She has shown speed she never had before. She hasn't shown improvements in taijutsu, but that doesn't mean she hasn't improved or that she was a slouch before. And she definitely has more stamina as well.


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 4, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Rosencrantz, I don't know when you became such an abrasive "stop posting, you're an idiot, you have been proved wrong" type poster, but frankly, I expect more from you. (And if you are going to condescend to me in such a fashion, then I suggest you do what you say you are going to do to other posters and just stop responding. It's noxious and does nothing for your argumentation other than make you sacrifice balance for aggressiveness.)
> 
> 
> Bunshins mattered, sure, but what Ino chose to comment upon was the speed, which means that played a more decisive role. And when two characters in the same ballpark of ability fight, or watch each other fight, and one of them makes a note of commenting how fast the other person is, that has always meant (so far as I have ever seen) the other person was faster than them. Which means that Sakura was moving faster than someone 1.5 tiers above her in DB speed.
> ...



Not a fan of idiot comments. For instance, I don't mind talking to most people on NF cause it is generally a difference of opinion, not downright idiocy. For instance, I am responding to you right now. I do not have tolerance for comments referring to Sakura being able to blitz 5 tiers and beyond consistently and Tsunade being able to blitz 4.5 tiers consistently. And I was already in a bad mood. You could likely tell that with all of my posts yesterday. And you are welcome to stop responding at any time, as you already know I am sure. But you are right, I am fine now and will respond with the same courtesy you show me. I apologize. You don't need to defend other posters though; he's a big boy and can speak for himself.

She commented on both. She thought about speed and talked out loud about bunshins. Not necessarily. What pops into my head is Lee. I believe Kimmimaro commented on Lee's speed even though he was faster and Kakashi commented on Lee's speed even though he was faster. I think both were 4.5 tiers commenting on the speed of a 4 tier speedster (as a genin anyway). KCM Naruto commented on how all of the Raikage are fast even though he was faster than Sandaime Raikage (at Naruto's fastest) and at least as fast as Yondaime Raikage. So one can be faster and still be impressed by someone's speed. We agree it was both the bunshins and the speed though. That's all I am saying. Because ninjutsu was involved, it was not a blitz.

I'm not wrong. She was 3 tier back during Capture Itachi arc. Do I think she has jumped 1.5 since then? No. Realistically has anyone's speed every jumped that high over the course of a few months or maybe a year? Hell no so I don't think she is an exception. 0.5? Probably. 1 tier? It could happen. 1.5? Hell no. And that would just make their speed on par anyway. Once you are within a tier of a difference, depending on the skill level it doesn't matter. And Asuma is way more skilled. That's what gets her killed here. I am all too familiar with NF's obsession with speed when Kishi has shown time and time again unless you are Minato or Yondaime Raikage, it really doesn't matter that much especially when the gap is not that big.

Was it flat? I thought it was pretty rocky and uneven? The thing is you have to include every factor. Because it hit other clones (and I thought some rocks too) it slowed down. By the time Sakura was close to the clone (she HAD NOT caught up with it yet), it had seemingly slowed down tremendously. She also took quite a bit more time and had to travel a greater distance than Lee did to juggle Gaara (meaning more time for air resistance to slow it down). Lee also did it repeatedly. Gaara also did not hit any rocks or clones of himself to slow him down. Due to the many different factors between what Lee did and Sakura did (many are in Lee's favor), the situations aren't really comparable. I still believe what Lee did was more impressive speed wise based upon these factors.

Hilarious. I literally had 10-12 written down initially and changed it after going back to take a peek at the fight. Funny how we both had the same initial estimation. 1 on Hiruko, 1 on Sasori, I think 2 on the iron blocks, 1 on Sandaime Kazekage, 1 on random puppet, and 1 to open the cave. So 7 on panel. Was she directing chakra to the seal during that fight? Lawl Kishi.

She was able to use 7 punches and medical ninjutsu. That is not impressive to me. She has more indeed. But Sasori fight does not show some impressive usage of shunshin flying around the battlefield nor does it show some impressive stamina/chakra. I think she could be faster. She probably is. Just not significantly. More skilled? Probably. Has she shown me? Hell no she hasn't. I need to see some skillful taijutsu, a character statement, databook stat, or something to say her taijutsu skill is high up there on Asuma's level essentially jumping 1.5. She has greater hitting strength clearly. She has become stronger than Tsunade? It was said that she MIGHT be physically stronger. This is important. Because it means her hitting strength is Tsunade level (a little above, a little below, or even). However a lot of Tsunade's strength is natural, so Tsunade can kick, punch, block, catch attacks, wield giant weapons, grapple, etc with her physical strength. Sakura can only hit and so far only punch apparently not even kick with it. This makes Tsunade's strength way more diverse. Also Sakura's hits take chakra while Tsunade's don't need to take chakra in every situation because a lot of her strength is natural. Both Tsunade and Sakura can summon. Until Sakura shows me taijutsu on Tsunade's level, some natural incredible physical strength (i.e. more than just hitting strength), Byakugou, Genesis Rebirth, and some durability like getting cut in half and still being alive and summoning boss summons and shit then she will be firmly below Tsunade unless Tsunade herself tells us otherwise. Also even if Sakura shows me these things, she just becomes Tsunade's equal. She needs something that sets her apart and so far she is just a weaker Tsunade clone. This is way off topic though.


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## Undead (Jul 4, 2013)

@crystalblade13: Asuma also intercepted Kakuzu from striking Shikamaru. That's another feat you can look at when judging his speed.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jul 5, 2013)

they should at least make a chibi spin-off starring Hidan. what a waste

Rock Lee is just soooo pt1_ Naruto_...


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## Olympian (Jul 6, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Hidan never tagged Kakashi.



Kakashi being on the defensive and Hidan clashing blades with him around trees (even when Kazuku was *not *attacking at the same time), suggests pretty clearly to me that any speed difference was redunctant to speak of.

So yes, to me he did.

I want to make this clear, Sakura obviously made a jump in quality and stats, I dont think anyone should argue that. However to me the point is more how her jump doesnt yet naturally translate into superiority over someone like Asuma all things considered, outside of Summon or catching Asuma off guard with a connected punch. But those are the obvious ones. And that last one? Her opponent here was seen almost always fighting physical freaks. The only time you saw him allowing to be fully punched was when he was severely injured or wanted to.

Think about it. Kishi still showcases the Sensei as superior in some ways. Look at the growth the whole Team 10 did. Look how Asuma was still outmaneuvering them without any weapons.


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## ShadowReaper (Jul 6, 2013)

Current Sakura can possibly take down some of the weaker kages, let alone fodder Asuma


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## Shizune (Jul 7, 2013)

ShadowReaper said:


> Current Sakura can possibly take down some of the weaker kages, let alone fodder Asuma



Oh, do tell. Which kages?


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## wooly Eullerex (Nov 11, 2013)

this was madness...


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## -JT- (Nov 11, 2013)

ShadowReaper said:


> Current Sakura can possibly take down some of the weaker kages, let alone fodder Asuma



Any Kage that has ever been shown with abilities in the manga can take Sakura down with ease


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## Big Baller Brand (Nov 11, 2013)

> Current Sakura can possibly take down some of the weaker kages, let alone fodder Asuma



_LOL such a troll post...

But anyway, yes, do tell which "weak" Kages she can beat. 
_


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## Bonly (Nov 11, 2013)

I'd say Sakura could beat Hiruzen


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## Wolfstein (Nov 11, 2013)

Sakura isn't taking Asuma out with an indirect ground punch. Seriously guise? 

Sakura definitely cannot contend in base. She can only dance around with Asuma  for so long before his superior skill, slight speed advantage and wtfrange get the best of her. Luckily she has two more options. Her first one being Byakugō in which she gains the speed advantage necessary to land a clean hit, and her second one being Katsuyu who unfortunately turns this into a spite thread.

Sakura wins high diff at the absolute worst.


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## Coppur (Nov 11, 2013)

I feel Sakura takes this. Both are close quarters combatants who rely on taijutsu as their bread and butter; however, Sakura has the unique ability to be able to one shot opponents like Asuma who lack the speed to dodge or the defense to tank. For Asuma to win, Sakura needs to mess up quite a few times, but for Saukra to win, Asuma only needs to slip up once. Making the odds easily in her favor.

That, or Katsuyu the omnipotent solos.


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## Veracity (Nov 11, 2013)

lol Sakura losing to Asuma.


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## Rosencrantz (Nov 12, 2013)

Sakura without byakugou obviously gets train wrecked. Superior in taijutsu, speed, raw physical strength, tactics, range and this is all CQC. He has katons and fuutons too. And he only needs one good hit. I give it to Asuma with mild difficulty in that regard.

BUT this is clearly Sakura wiith byakugou. So far this means that she can just punch a lot harder. This means her ability to one shot is clear. However she still lacks the same disadvantages. Being slower and less skilled making her overall weaker in CQC. Her strength is only good in her fists making her easier to dodge and deal with as well. He can also jump back and make it a range battle with Katons and Fuutons. I still have to give it to Asuma because her seal has yet to show Tsunade level healing, she has not shown Tsunade speed/taijutsu skill either. Most importantly is the healing and taijutsu skill. Asuma with moderate difficulty. It's like fighting a physically stronger, no doton using, less skilled but faster Jirobou.

BUT, Sakura has an ace up her sleeve. Katsuya. She can be used to create an opening for Sakura to exploit making up for her other physical deficiencies.

If she pulls out  Katsuya, she gets the win. But if not, Asuma has it.


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## 08monaa (Dec 7, 2013)

Sakura takes this Asuma may have a lot of experience but it's just not enough to take on 
?1 Hit killing.fissure/Shockwave creating punches and kicks
?Amazing Intelligence advanced Booby traps
?Expert healing can self heal or use katsuyu to heal others
?Boss summoning which Shoots Killer Acid and cam divide to dodge attacks
?Great evasion and reflexes dodged SOME of Sasori's Attacks.
?Some what a substitution spammer allowing her to get close
 ?Great speed if she uses chakra to enhance her speed like in the fight with ino.or has a great leap like she did with the juubi clone .

Sakura could enhanced her speed and dAsh to him if he attacks her while dashing she subsitutes and creates a fake clone to jump in the to trick asuma he attacks the decoy finding out that the real sakura is behind him before he has a chance to attack sakura will punch him creating a large crater with his dead body in.


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## Shinryu (Dec 7, 2013)

Base Sakura could kill Asuma with a punch.Her punchs can oneshot Rinnegan summons.Current Sakura speedlblitzes and oneshots him with a hillbuster.


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## 08monaa (Dec 8, 2013)

Finally ssomeone who understands


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## Mercurial (Dec 8, 2013)

Shinryu said:


> Base Sakura could kill Asuma with a punch.Her punchs can oneshot Rinnegan summons.Current Sakura speedlblitzes and oneshots him with a hillbuster.



Sure, that's why Sakura couldn't dodge Kabuto's ass or Mokuton projectiles needing to be saved from Kakashi (she did just as bad as average Alliance fodder) and why she got schooled in taijutsu from fodder Karui and fodder Omoi. Sure. Asuma blitzes her and cuts her arms, then her head with Fuuton enhanced Hien.


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