# Will Coby beat Boa Hancock?



## YonkoDrippy (Apr 8, 2021)

Hopefully the fight will be on-screen. I think Hancock is gonna kick Coby’s ass. Do you think Coby will defeat Hancock?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 8, 2021)

_"And once it’s over, things are going to be grim. Sabo will…!! Vivi will…!! Hancock will…!! AAAAAAAA…!!!"_

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 2 | GODA 1


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## Crow (Apr 8, 2021)

I think they'll exchange blows long enough for us to see how far Koby's come, but Luffy will eventually come up in the conversation and either their fight will be interrupted by outside forces (i.e. the other Marines or Kujas) or the Kuja tribe will drive the Marines off.

Reactions: Like 3 | GODA 1


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## Eustathios (Apr 8, 2021)

SSG will capture her. Don't know about Coby


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## Chronophage (Apr 8, 2021)

He will be part of the Squad that raids her island and arrests her.

One on one? Defeinitely not. Maybe "finish her off".


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Koby will mid-diff here she will pull out the luffy card and nerf him
Koby has advanced CoO and master rokoushi like garp and the admirals

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Daddy Masterson (Apr 8, 2021)

No because isn't Fujitora also headed to Amazon Lily? Coby is just going to stand there and look cool, maybe pull off one attack on her.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Gokou08 (Apr 8, 2021)

Tbh, people are underestimating Coby, dude came out as a weakling, probably 10x weaker than RD Luffy and in 2 years that guy has better CoO than most SHs, probably even better than Zoro, he's Physical power increase exponentially aswell and there's still that Rocky Port incident with Law that we don't know shit about, if we think about it carefully, and connected Luffy's progression with Coby, Coby has more Potential than Luffy, but Luffy fights stronger enemies than Coby does, so he groes stronger, I can see Coby beating Hancock with a little Asspull, it's more credible Coby beating Hancock alone than an Admiral getting dispatched for that when there's Mihawk and Weevil out there.. Let's wait and see.. 
Coby also joined SWORD he must had some training there or sum shit..

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Apr 8, 2021)

Coby might give her a good fight or even stalemate her,but I think it will be an SSG test,so all sea warlords bar Mihawk will fall to SSG.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Impulse (Apr 8, 2021)

Coby would give Boa Hancock a good fight but can't be sure that he would capture her


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## gogcho (Apr 8, 2021)

Koby is fodder

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 1 | Dislike 2


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## Van Basten (Apr 8, 2021)

Coby just holding his own for an extended period of time would have me hyped.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Koby has Advanced CoO per Oda words, he too stronk

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Koby has Advanced CoO per Oda words, he too stronk


Do you even know what advanced CoO means lol


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Do you even know what advanced CoO means lol


This idiotic stuff, 
Oda himself said he has advanced CoO man theres different types

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> This idiotic stuff,
> Oda himself said he has advanced CoO man theres different types


That's cool, but you're saying Coby has advanced CoO so he's too strong and can beat Hancock

So I'm asking you, what is advanced CoO, how does it make him stronger than hancock, and how do you know Hancock doesn't know it too?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grimsley (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda knows Hancock is a fan favourite so to make her lose would be terrible.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> That's cool, but you're saying Coby has advanced CoO so he's too strong and can beat Hancock
> 
> So I'm asking you, what is advanced CoO, how does it make him stronger than hancock, and how do you know Hancock doesn't know it too?


He can close his eyes and avoid Lust, predict the stone movements 
Oh man and mastered rokosuhi in no way shape form is oda making koby lose
hes suppose to rival PK Luffy


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## Spirit King (Apr 8, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> He can close his eyes and avoid Lust, predict the stone movements
> Oh man and mastered rokosuhi in no way shape form is oda making koby lose
> hes suppose to rival PK Luffy


Coby has literally never rivaled Luffy. Even him beating Hancock wouldn't change that. He's definitely no Garp Smoker is closer to Luffy's Garp than Coby ever was. it's like saying Kidd is Luffy's WB. Kidd's not even close to that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Canute87 (Apr 8, 2021)

beat her with what?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Samehadaman (Apr 8, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oh man and mastered rokosuhi in no way shape form is oda making koby lose
> hes suppose to rival PK Luffy



Nah Coby worships Luffy way too much, he was made by him.

Garp and Whitebeard weren't snot nosed bratty kids that Roger saved and inspired to follow their dreams, they didnt see Roger as their saviour and mentor.
They had their own paths and were badasses in their own right before they started clashing with Roger, and while they respected and liked him they didn't see him as the guy who made them or whatever.

If Coby/Luffy has a parelel it would be closer to Shanks/Roger or Luffy/Shanks+Garp, the guy who was inspired and molded by.
If he surpasses Luffy it will not be when Luffy is Pirate King, it will be after he is retired or dead.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Hopefully the fight will be on-screen. I think Hancock is gonna kick Coby’s ass. Do you think Coby will defeat Hancock?


Yeah. That seems very likely. I don’t see any benefit in having Hancock wipe the floor with him, where as Hancock being captured opens the door to plenty of interesting story possibilities.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 3


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Samehadaman said:


> Nah Coby worships Luffy way too much, he was made by him.
> 
> Garp and Whitebeard weren't snot nosed bratty kids that Roger saved and inspired to follow their dreams, they didnt see Roger as their saviour and mentor.
> They had their own paths and were badasses in their own right before they started clashing with Roger, and while they respected and liked him they didn't see him as the guy who made them or whatever.
> ...


Luffy is about 1 year older than Koby. Shanks was about 2 decades older than Luffy. Roger was over 3 decades older than Shanks.


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## Oda Report (Apr 8, 2021)

Green Bull body boa hancock, while purple tiger is getting sunk by Mihawk.


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## Van Basten (Apr 8, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> This idiotic stuff,
> Oda himself said he has advanced CoO man theres different types

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yeah. That seems very likely. I don’t see any benefit in having Hancock wipe the floor with him, where as Hancock being captured opens the door to plenty of interesting story possibilities.


She is likely getting captured. Not by Coby though, that'd be dumb as fuck

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> She is likely getting captured. Not by Coby though, that'd be dumb as fuck


Nah. It really wouldn’t be and there’s no reason to set this up, if Koby’s not going to play a significant role in it. If not the primary role.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Van Basten said:


>


Why do you think Oda set up a fight between Koby and Hancock if she’s going to stomp him?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Van Basten (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Why do you think Oda set up a fight between Koby and Hancock if she’s going to stomp him?


She won’t.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> She won’t.


Then what do you think is going to happen?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Van Basten (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Then what do you think is going to happen?


Coby gives Hancock a high diff fight but she escapes. Coby gets fame from the fight.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> Coby gives Hancock a high diff fight but she escapes. Coby gets fame from the fight.


Fair enough.

Reactions: Like 2


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 8, 2021)

Coby will give Hancock sister the work while Fujitora take down Hancock after a long fight with Oda emphasizing how lucky he was to be blind in this fight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

CrownedEagle said:


> Coby will give Hancock sister the work while Fujitora take down Hancock after a long fight with Oda emphasizing how lucky he was to be blind in this fight.


If Fujitora is there, Hancock is getting her cheeks clapped. She’s strong, but she’s not Admiral level. I don’t even think she’s stronger than Doffy.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nah. It really wouldn’t be and there’s no reason to set this up, if Koby’s not going to play a significant role in it. If not the primary role.


It would be absurd. Hancock was one of the 3 characters undamaged in the MF war, alongside Kizaru and Mihawk, two top tiers.

Hancock fodderizes VAs it's stupid to have Coby beat her. Coby, the Luffy Stan is going after Hancock, the Luffy Simp. That's the setup, and that's more likely the plot point that he's there to fulfil.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## CrownedEagle (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> If Fujitora is there, Hancock is getting her cheeks clapped. She’s strong, but she’s not Admiral level. I don’t even think she’s stronger than Doffy.


I know but for some reason people seem to think since Hancock isn't Admiral material Coby is now worth her time considering the number of thread on this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> It would be absurd. Hancock was one of the 3 characters undamaged in the MF war, alongside Kizaru and Mihawk, two top tiers.
> 
> Hancock fodderizes VAs it's stupid to have Coby beat her. Coby, the Luffy Stan is going after Hancock, the Luffy Simp. That's the setup, and that's more likely the plot point that he's there to fulfil.


Nah. Not really. I you think Hancock is at the level of Kizaru or Mihawk, you’re setting yourself up for massive disapointment. The most notable person that she fought in that war IIRC, was Smoker. That was before he’d even learned Haki. Kizaru fought Whitebeard And Marco. Mihawk fought Jozu and Vista. She never foderized any Vice Admirals either.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

CrownedEagle said:


> I know but for some reason people seem to think since Hancock isn't Admiral material Coby is now worth her time considering the number of thread on this.


That’s probably, because that’s how Oda set it up. I’m sure that you’ve read Chapter 956. Why would he set this up, if Koby was just going to go there and get washed?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Oda Report (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s probably, because that’s how Oda set it up. I’m sure that you’ve read Chapter 956. Why would he set this up, if Koby was just going to go there and get washed?



To introduce another admiral or SSG when coby gets bodied. There is many ways this can play out. Let's just pray Oda can choose the path that doesn't conflict with events that already passes in the story.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> To introduce another admiral or SSG when coby gets bodied. There is many ways this can play out. Let's just pray Oda can choose the path that doesn't conflict with events that already passes in the story.


Yeah. That’s absurd. Hancock beating Koby doesn’t get us anywhere and people that pretend that the set up doesn’t indicate that Hancock is at least in for a tough fight and might be getting captured are fooling themselves.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yeah. That’s absurd. Hancock beating Koby doesn’t get us anywhere and people that pretend that the set up doesn’t indicate that Hancock is at least in for a tough fight and might be getting captured are fooling themselves.



If you think koby is that strong good on you. However, in the realm of the story koby isn't built like that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> If you think koby is that strong good on you. However, in the realm of the story koby isn't built like that.



Oda writes and draws a scene of Koby announcing that he’s going to Amazon Lily to capture Hancock, just to get bodied so an Admiral or the SSG can do it without him. Why do you think he would do that? If an Admiral was going to do it, wouldn’t he have just had Fujitora or something say that he was going to Amazon Lily to capture Hancock?

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## Oda Report (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Oda writes and draws a scene of Koby announcing that he’s going to Amazon Lily to capture Hancock, just to get bodied so an Admiral or the SSG can do it without him. Why do you think he would do that? If an Admiral was going to do it, wouldn’t he have just had Fujitora or something say that he was going to Amazon Lily to capture Hancock?



Just because coby says x doesn't mean it's going to happen. Coby hadn't displayed any level of power in the story that makes any sane reader ok with coby randomly being strong enough to take out boa himself.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Just because coby says x doesn't mean it's going to happen. Coby hadn't displayed any level of power in the story that makes any sane reader ok with coby randomly being strong enough to take out boa himself.


That doesn’t really answer the question. It’s not just that Koby said it. It’s that Oda wrote it. Why would he have Koby make that claim, if he was going to get washed? You don’t seem to have a very high opinion of his strength, so it wouldn’t add to her hype. What is gained narratively from Hancock  stomping him? Why wouldn’t Oda just cut out the middle man and have an Admiral say that they were going to bring her in?

Koby‘s Haki range is obviously pretty big. He was able to sense a torpedo from miles away. He was so far away, that other Haki users like Rebecca and Helmeppo along with Violet, never even sensed it. He’s also able to measure people’s strength like he did with Kyros. He was really close to Amazon Lily. If he was getting in over his head, wouldn’t he be able to tell?

It’s not random either. He got Haki pre-skip and spent 2 years either training with Garp or fighting in the New World.

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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Just because coby says x doesn't mean it's going to happen. Coby hadn't displayed any level of power in the story that makes any sane reader ok with coby randomly being strong enough to take out boa himself.


Lol, yes it does the same as Luffy becoming PK and Zoro WSS
Koby will become a admiral
He and Luffy will fight Admiral vs Pirate King
Hes gonna win against haancock or atleast get the upperhand if they talk about luffy


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## Oda Report (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That doesn’t really answer the question. It’s not just that Koby said it. It’s that Oda wrote it. Why would he have Koby make that claim, if he was going to get washed?


It does answer the question, many characters even stronger then coby make claims that don't come to pass. Coby isn't an admiral. Coby isn't what made the WG comply with erasing the Seven Armed Seas. 

Not to mention cobys words don't hold weight to Boas. 



Lee-Sensei said:


> Youou don’t seem to have a very high opinion of his strength. What is gained narratively from Hancock one stomping him? Why wouldn’t Oda just cut out the middle man and have an Admiral say that they were going to bring her in?



Because this is a story...no writer wants an incident like this to have an obvious out come unless shown in the story before hand. 



Lee-Sensei said:


> Koby‘s Haki range is obviously pretty big. He was able to sense a torpedo from miles away. He was so far away, that other Haki users like Rebecca and Helmeppo along with Violet, never even sensed it. He’s also able to measure people’s strengths. He was really close to Amazon Lily. If he was getting in over his head, wouldn’t he be able to tell?



He was in over his head during the MHQ war. Got saved by a bigger fish. 



Lee-Sensei said:


> It’s not random either. He got Haki pre-skip and spent 2 years either training with Garp or fighting in the New World.



Its random when even you yourself can't give me an obvious reason on why to believe coby can defeat boa himself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beyonce (Apr 8, 2021)

Koby is going to get a foot up his arse and will be spared when he mentions Luffy’s name. Anything else is shit story writing.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> to


yes I think hanacock is a midTopTier, but unfortunately shes a side character since luffy wont marry her, and Koby been here for 25+ years so he'll win


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## Torpedo Titz (Apr 8, 2021)

Imagine if the Marines sent Gion to capture her

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Beyonce (Apr 8, 2021)

“Oda wrote Koby saying he was going to capture hancock so it must be true”

Oda also ended that entire chapter giving Hancock a much bigger panel than Koby reiterating how she’s strong enough to sit her pretty ass on her throne and do nothing.

I mean seriously, this is the woman who disrespected the world government and spat in their faces when they tried recruiting her for war. And when they did recruit her, SHE SABOTAGED IT. Multiple times in front of high ranking officers. And what did they do? Not a damn thing.

meanwhile they threw jinbe’s ass in a level 6 prison just for the mere idea of opposing this war 

Even in a movie supervised by oda they had Hancock outdo the entire cast including Luffy when it came to hurting the main villain. 

It’s going to be piss writing if Koby so much as touches Hancock, let alone give her a serious fight.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 8, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Hancock


so Hanacock>Mihawk?


Beyonce said:


> I mean seriously, this is the woman who disrespected the world government and spat in their faces when they tried recruiting her for war. And when they did recruit her, SHE SABOTAGED IT. Multiple times in front of high ranking officers. And what did they do? Not a damn thing.


True they were in a war tho sentemoru is her superior


Beyonce said:


> Hancock


shes pretty ugly


Beyonce said:


> Even in a movie supervised by oda they had Hancock outdo the entire cast including Luffy when it came to hurting the main villain.
> 
> It’s going to be piss writing if Koby so much as touches Hancock, let alone give her a serious fight.


It's just koby hype this is his story to becoming an admiral and 1v1ing the future PK you better believe it


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## Beyonce (Apr 8, 2021)

Which reminds me.

Koby’s 3 ranks below a Vice Admiral. I know positions and titles aren’t 100% accurate and there are exceptions (Garp) but it’s ridiculous story wise and serves no purpose for Koby to be somehow much stronger than VA level without him actually getting such a title. And no SWORD doesn’t mean shit to me assuming the strongest is X Drake, whom imo isn’t that much stronger than Hancock if at all.


Hancock thrashed a VA casually in her debut. You’d have to make the  assumption Koby is much stronger than a VA (because that’s the level needed to even attempt to fight her) AND find a reasoning as to why he isn’t simply given the title of VA if he is that strong which to me is bad writing and his status as a “main character” isn’t nearly enough to supersede this.

Which reminds me, I’m pretty sure Hancock has gotten similar if not more panel time than Koby has gotten. Nevertheless a much more fleshed out background and actual importance to the story thus far plus a popularity ranking that towers over him (landed in the top ten in both character polls since her debut). Koby’s also gotten shatted on in pretty much all his manga appearances to date. I really don’t see why now is the time for him to beat a character who’s better than him in virtually every facet

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> It does answer the question, many characters even stronger then coby make claims that don't come to pass. Coby isn't an admiral. Coby isn't what made the WG comply with erasing the Seven Armed Seas.


You’re still not addressing the question. Why did Oda put that in? Koby‘s Haki allows him to figure out the strength of his opponents and has massive range. Why wouldn’t he know that he was way too weak to fight her?



Oda Report said:


> Not to mention cobys words don't hold weight to Boas.
> 
> Because this is a story...no writer wants an incident like this to have an obvious out come unless shown in the story before hand.


Most people seem to think that she’s going to wash him. Wouldn’t that be the obvious outcome?



Oda Report said:


> He was in over his head during the MHQ war. Got saved by a bigger fish.


He was a rookie without Haki and only one known Rokushiki technique at the time. Now he’s spent years fighting in the New World, mastered Rokushiki and at a bare minimum has CoO on a very advanced level.



Oda Report said:


> Its random when even you yourself can't give me an obvious reason on why to believe coby can defeat boa himself.


You didn’t give any reasons that she’s completely beyond him. How strong do you think she is?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Which reminds me.
> 
> Koby’s 3 ranks below a Vice Admiral. I know positions and titles aren’t 100% accurate and there are exceptions (Garp) but it’s ridiculous story wise and serves no purpose for Koby to be somehow much stronger than VA level without him actually getting such a title. And no SWORD doesn’t mean shit to me assuming the strongest is X Drake, whom imo isn’t that much stronger than Hancock if at all.
> 
> ...


When Luffy beat Crocodile, his bounty was almost 3 times smaller.

Hancock never thrashed a Vice Admiral. This narrative needs to die. Her best feats are kicking around Pre-TS Smoker and smashing up Pacifistas.

It takes more than strength to rise through the ranks. Smoker said this himself in Alabasta.

Prepare for disappointment.

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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nah. Not really. I you think Hancock is at the level of Kizaru or Mihawk, you’re setting yourself up for massive disapointment. The most notable person that she fought in that war IIRC, was Smoker. That was before he’d even learned Haki. Kizaru fought Whitebeard And Marco. Mihawk fought Jozu and Vista. She never foderized any Vice Admirals either.


I never said I thought Hancock was top tier, but she has hype and portrayal to be around DD level.

Oh my mistake, I thought going into a VA's ship, one shotting his entire crew and leaving him kneeling on the ground trembling after having to stab himself to not be neg diffed by basic DF ability was her fodderizing a VA.


She's portrayed above VAs, and Coby is not. Coby will become Admiral after the story ends and the WG is defeated

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I never said I thought Hancock was top tier, but she has hype and portrayal to be around DD level.
> 
> Oh my mistake, I thought going into a VA's ship, one shotting his entire crew and leaving him kneeling on the ground trembling after having to stab himself to not be neg diffed by basic DF ability was her fodderizing a VA.
> 
> She's portrayed above VAs, and Coby is not. Coby will become Admiral after the story ends and the WG is defeated


What would place her at Doflamingo’s level? She doesn’t have comparable speed, strength or durability feats. As far as we know, she doesn’t have comparable mastery of her Devil Fruit. She’s not as smart as him (although I’m not saying she’s stupid). She doesn’t have as much hype as him. You can talk about Hancock coming out of the war unscrached, but Doflamingo stopped Jozu in his tracks and casually stood on his back. He toyed around with little Oars Jr. and Commander Atmos. He also toyed around with Vice Admirals when he showed up at Marineford. He played with them like puppets and he only cut it out when Sengoku showed up.


Nah. She really didn’t foderize a Vice Admiral. His crew is irrelevant. Beating them doesn’t mean that she beat Momonga. He quickly figured out and countered her ability, she praised him for his experience and then he threatened her. Portrayal indicated that she was stronger, but she absolutely did not foderize a Vice Admiral. Unlike Doflamingo.


Doflamingo could have killed them easily if Sengoku didn’t show up. Doflamingo is almost certainly comfortably stronger than Hancock.

Do you think Koby is weaker than Vice Admiral Maynard?

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## Beyonce (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> When Luffy beat Crocodile, his bounty was almost 3 times smaller.


Bounty isn’t always indicative of strength it’s indicative of deeds and actions. Plus bounties aren’t formally given and administered in the same way marine rankings are. There’s no logical reason why Koby who was given a captain ranking is somehow much stronger than a VA. 


Lee-Sensei said:


> Hancock never thrashed a Vice Admiral. This narrative needs to die. Her best feats are kicking around Pre-TS Smoker and smashing up Pacifistas.


I’m not sure how on earth you read Momonga getting brought to his knees and Hancock mocking him, THEN proceeding to steal all the goods off his ship and decimating his crew, THEN saying “fuck you im not going to your dumb war lol” as Momonga did nothing but twiddle his thumbs as _not _thrashing him but okay. If she wasn’t at all vastly stronger than him Momonga wouldn’t have been made her bitch , and she certainly wouldn’t have been able to sabotage the war in front of marine officers and not receive a SINGLE consequence if she wasn’t >>>>VA level. But to each his own I guess.


Lee-Sensei said:


> It takes more than strength to rise through the ranks. Smoker said this himself in Alabasta.


Link me to this? Even if it does take more than just strength, at what point does the discrepancy of captain -> VA level take place without a clear reason why? Why is there someone who’s the second strongest marine rank only pinned at captain level? Irrespective of these other factors like experience and leadership skills (in which Koby has quite a lot of).


Lee-Sensei said:


> Prepare for disappointment.


If Koby does beat Hancock I won’t be surprised, just very disappointed. It’s bad writing and contradicts a lot of the points I mentioned above.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Do you think Koby is weaker than Vice Admiral Maynard?


Coby's current rank is just Captain, he shares the same rank as Tashigi, Nezumi ( the human rat marine during Arlong Park), pre-skip Smoker and Helmeppo's father Morgan until he got kicked out. All of them are fodder to even Pre-skip Luffy (excluding Smoker for his logia intangibility). 

So unless Coby is several ranks stronger than an average Captain, is immune to Hancock's charm or Hancock is far far below current Smoker or even Pre-Skip Luffy, Coby stands no chance. He gets low-diffed. Sengoku even went as far as to call her strong, and she fought to a stand-still against Sentomaru, something Coby absolutely cannot do


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## Canute87 (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Why do you think Oda set up a fight between Koby and Hancock if she’s going to stomp him?



Because there are other people coby can fight, like sandersonia and marigold for instance.

And of course there could be more to coby being there than simply who fights who.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Bounty isn’t always indicative of strength it’s indicative of deeds and actions. Plus bounties aren’t formally given and administered in the same way marine rankings are. There’s no logical reason why Koby who was given a captain ranking is somehow much stronger than a VA.
> 
> I’m not sure how on earth you read Momonga getting brought to his knees and Hancock mocking him, THEN proceeding to steal all the goods off his ship and decimating his crew, THEN saying “fuck you im not going to your dumb war lol” as Momonga did nothing but twiddle his thumbs as _not _thrashing him but okay. If she wasn’t at all vastly stronger than him Momonga wouldn’t have been made her bitch , and she certainly wouldn’t have been able to sabotage the war in front of marine officers and not receive a SINGLE consequence if she wasn’t >>>>VA level. But to each his own I guess.
> 
> ...


1) Bounty isn’t always indicative of strength. Neither is rank. Can you tell me which Captains you think are comparable to a guy that’s mastered Rokushiki with advanced CoO?

2) By “Hancock mocking him”, you mean praising him for his experience and intelligence. No? Wait. Way better than VA’s? Do you think she’s stronger than Chaton and Gion?

3) The Marines are a military organization. Experience and leadership are kind of important.

4) Do you also think it’s bad writing for Zoro and Law to put up a fight against Kaido? Luffy can at least say that he’s been through 3 very intense fights against Commanders. Haki blooms in battle so he got stronger from fighting Doflamingo, Cracker and Katakuri. Zoro’s first tough fight is against Kaido and he’s putting in work. Law on the other hand, was mid diffed by Doflamingo about 2  to 3 months ago maximum in story.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> Because there are other people coby can fight, like sandersonia and marigold for instance.
> 
> And of course there could be more to coby being there than simply who fights who.


Except that he said he was going after Hancock and not Sandersonia and Marigold.

Who knows. Maybe I’m completely wrong and Hancock is going to stomp him, But the way that Oda wrote that seriously implies that he’s going to fight Hancock herself. Marigold and Sandersonia we’re losing in a 2v1 against Pre-Timeskip Luffy. I don’t think they’re much of a threat to Koby right now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ayy lmao (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don’t think they’re much of a threat to Koby right now.


Do you think Coby is several ranks stronger than other Marine Captain's?


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> Do you think Coby is several ranks stronger than other Marine Captain's?


Which Marine Captains do you think can beat a Rokushiki master with advanced CoO? That’s a better question.

Do you remember during Enies Lobby, when the Vice Admirals sent out 200 Captains and Commanders against the tired Pre-TS Straw Hats?

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## Canute87 (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Except that he said he was going after Hancock and not Sandersonia and Marigold.
> 
> Who knows. Maybe I’m completely wrong and Hancock is going to stomp him, But the way that Oda wrote that seriously implies that he’s going to fight Hancock herself. Marigold and Sandersonia we’re losing in a 2v1 against Pre-Timeskip Luffy. I don’t think they’re much of a threat to Koby right now.


All the hype hancock has gotten there is clearly an admiral that is among that fleet that is going to take her in otherwise it makes no sense.

hancock singlehanded can one shot the entire fleet.

The admiral is for hancock.  Maybe it's Greenbull.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What would place her at Doflamingo’s level? She doesn’t have comparable speed, strength or durability feats. As far as we know, she doesn’t have comparable mastery of her Devil Fruit. She’s not as smart as him (although I’m not saying she’s stupid). She doesn’t have as much hype as him. You can talk about Hancock coming out of the war unscrached, but Doflamingo stopped Jozu in his tracks and casually stood on his back. He toyed around with little Oars Jr. and Commander Atmos. He also toyed around with Vice Admirals when he showed up at Marineford. He played with them like puppets and he only cut it out when Sengoku showed up.


Portrayal. She has no feats why are you talking feats? She has CoC, sengoku was relieved when she joined the war, she was unscratched in the war, she ignored direct orders and attacked marines with zero repurcussion, she saved Luffy with zero repurcussions.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Nah. She really didn’t foderize a Vice Admiral. His crew is irrelevant. Beating them doesn’t mean that she beat Momonga. He quickly figured out and countered her ability, she praised him for his experience and then he threatened her. Portrayal indicated that she was stronger, but she absolutely did not foderize a Vice Admiral. Unlike Doflamingo.


lol you're as biased as they come 

Momonga was on his knees, trembling, meanwhile Hancock didn't move a fucking finger lol how is that not being fodderized



Lee-Sensei said:


> Doflamingo could have killed them easily if Sengoku didn’t show up. Doflamingo is almost certainly comfortably stronger than Hancock.


Them? He was controling a fodder, that guy isn't a VA lol. The VA was unaffected.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Do you think Koby is weaker than Vice Admiral Maynard?


No, but I think he's weaker than Momonga or Bastille.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> All the hype hancock has gotten there is clearly an admiral that is among that fleet that is going to take her in otherwise it makes no sense.
> 
> hancock singlehanded can one shot the entire fleet.
> 
> The admiral is for hancock.  Maybe it's Greenbull.


Maybe you’re right, but I doubt it. Why do you think Oda had Koby say that he was going to Amazon Lily to capture Hancock? If he was just part of a Fleet under the command of an Admiral, why didn’t Oda have him say, “I’m going to Amazon Lily under the command of Admiral Ryokugyu to capture Hancock”.

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## Ayy lmao (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Which Marine Captains do you think can beat a Rokushiki master with advanced CoO? That’s a better question.
> 
> Do you remember during Enies Lobby, when the Vice Admirals sent out 200 Captains and Commanders against the tired Pre-TS Straw Hats?


when was he said to have mastered Rokushiki? And even so, pre-skip Lucci has more than just mastered it as well, he would still be fodder to even Hordy Jones.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Portrayal. She has no feats why are you talking feats? She has CoC, sengoku was relieved when she joined the war, she was unscratched in the war, she ignored direct orders and attacked marines with zero repurcussion, she saved Luffy with zero repurcussions.


She has feats and portrayal. It’s just that she’s not comparable to Doflamingo in either of those areas. Again, unlike Doflamingo she didn’t fight a major opponent during the war. I never said she wasn’t strong. I’d probably place her somewhere between Doflamingo and his executives.



Strobacaxi said:


> lol you're as biased as they come
> 
> Momonga was on his knees, trembling, meanwhile Hancock didn't move a fucking finger lol how is that not being fodderized


Nope. I’m just honest. Hancock objectively didn’t foderize a Vice Admiral. You could say that she foderized his crew, but he countered her ability and threatened her. Portrayal indicated that she was stronger than him, but it definitely didn’t imply that she was capable of fodderizing him.



Strobacaxi said:


> Them? He was controling a fodder, that guy isn't a VA lol. The VA was unaffected.


Tsuru was unaffected. Maybe he didn’t use it on her. Mozambia and Stainless are definitely Vice Admirals. He also did it to one of Whitebeards Commanders and he was able to stop Jozu in his tracks. Keep in mind that Jozu is this strong.




Strobacaxi said:


> No, but I think he's weaker than Momonga or Bastille.


Fair enough. You could be right about that. But that would still make him “Vice Admiral level” broadly speaking.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> when was he said to have mastered Rokushiki? And even so, pre-skip Lucci has more than just mastered it as well, he would still be fodder to even Hordy Jones.


Oda wrote it in volume 1000.

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## Strobacaxi (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> She has feats and portrayal. It’s just that she’s not comparable to Doflamingo in either of those areas. Again, unlike Doflamingo she didn’t fight a major opponent during the war. I never said she wasn’t strong. I’d probably place her somewhere between Doflamingo and his executives.


She wrecked absolutely everyone who crossed her path. Momonga was no match, Smoker was fodder, Pacifistas were fodder, Sentomaru was no match either. Yeah, she didn't clash with any major characters, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't.

I don't think she's as strong as DD either, but plot importance and portrayal demand that she is on the same general level, and would do much better against DD than Law did.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Nope. I’m just honest. Hancock objectively didn’t foderize a Vice Admiral. You could say that she foderized his crew, but he countered her ability and threatened her. Portrayal indicated that she was stronger than him, but it definitely didn’t imply that she was capable of fodderizing him.


His threat is empty, and the commander of the ship has the duty to keep the crew safe. His way of countering her ability shows that they're on a whole different level. What's he going to do, stab himself constantly during a fight with her? This chapter pretty much confirms that hax fruits can be countered with haki, if he had to stab himself, then his haki can't compete with her.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Tsuru was unaffected. Maybe he didn’t use it on her. Mozambia and Stainless are definitely Vice Admirals. He also did it to one of Whitebeards Commanders and he was able to stop Jozu in his tracks. Keep in mind that Jozu is this strong.


Stainless wasn't affected either, but you're right I didn't realize Mozambia was that guy. That Jozu feat is honestly weird and incompatible with Dressrosa




Lee-Sensei said:


> Fair enough. You could be right about that. But that would still make him “Vice Admiral level” broadly speaking.


Yeah, he is VA level, probably hasn't reached Smoker yet. So he can't possibly beat Hancock

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> She wrecked absolutely everyone who crossed her path. Momonga was no match, Smoker was fodder, Pacifistas were fodder, Sentomaru was no match either. Yeah, she didn't clash with any major characters, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't.
> 
> I don't think she's as strong as DD either, but plot importance and portrayal demand that she is on the same general level, and would do much better against DD than Law did.
> 
> ...


1) She didn’t wreck Momonga and beating Pre-TS Smoker doesn’t mean much. Did she fight Sentomaru? If she beat him, that would be a little more impressive. I don’t remember that. I never said that she couldn’t clash with any of them. I imagine that she’d have been able to beat quite a few of Whitebeards regular Commanders and Allies.

2) Does it though? What do you mean by plot importance. I like Hancock, but she doesn’t seem to have a bigger goal aside from marrying Luffy.

3) I’m not sure about that, but her Haki is probably stronger than Momongas. Even fodder on Amazon Lily have Haki. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was more skilled with her Haki than Doflamingo, even though I think she’s comfortably beneath him on the whole.

4) I’m pretty sure that was Stainless. If it wasn’t, it was still probably some other Vice Admiral. All of the Marines at that meeting seemed to be Vice Admirals and above. Mozambia, Tsuru, Cancer and Sengoku. It would be strange to have a random lower ranked Marine in the mix.

5) Fair enough. To be clear, I don’t think he’s on Hancocks level right now. I just don’t think he’s far away enough to stomp her. I think he’s probably at the level of one of Doflamingo’s executives (aside from Vergo). I place Hancock above Doflamingo’s executives (including Vergo), but beneath Doflamingo himself. What I’m starting to believe is that he’ll fight Hancock and won’t be stomped, but she’ll clearly have the upper hand. During the battle his Haki will bloom and he’ll manage to take her down with extreme difficulty. I could be entirely off though.


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## Trueno (Apr 8, 2021)

Koby will beat her.

A lot of One Piece fans want the manga/anime to turn into a full blown shoujo and forget that Koby started out having to stand up to a bully of a pirate that always demanded he recognize her as the most beautiful in the world. When Koby faces Hancock, he'll be standing up to another, more powerful, bully of a pirate that demands everyone submit to her due to her beauty.

This is a huge moment for Koby. He promised he'd chase her down one day. And here is taking down "Super Pretty Alvida".

It's a huge missed narrative opportunity for Oda not to do something with Hancock, unless he off-screens it like the Rocky Port incident and just makes it another part of Koby's resume

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## Udell (Apr 8, 2021)

Hancock wins hands down. Coby is pretty strong don't get me wrong but Hancock was moping the floor with pre-time skip Luffy before she fell in love with him. This is the same Luffy who beat Rob Lucci who also mastered the same techniques as Coby. Yes CoO is also a factor but people acting like Hancock doesn't have CoO and CoA. CoO increases your defensive capabilities more than offensive. Kata was beating Luffy like a stick but he lack fire power imo. A mid diff fight at best.


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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Oda would need to put his head deep up to his own ass to make Coby win that fight, Fujitora should be the one doing it.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Koby will beat her.
> 
> A lot of One Piece fans want the manga/anime to turn into a full blown shoujo and forget that Koby started out having to stand up to a bully of a pirate that always demanded he recognize her as the most beautiful in the world. When Koby faces Hancock, he'll be standing up to another, more powerful, bully of a pirate that demands everyone submit to her due to her beauty.
> 
> ...


I never thought about that.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Oda would need to put his head deep up to his own ass to make Coby win that fight, Fujitora should be the one doing it.


Eh? Not really. The set up is there.


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## Crow (Apr 8, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> Coby just holding his own for an extended period of time would have me hyped.


same, i'm gonna be posting hella scans.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Eh? Not really. The set up is there.


I don't care for the weak ass set up, a dumb idea stays a dumb idea.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> I don't care for the weak ass set up, a dumb idea stays a dumb idea.


Nah. It’s not a dumb idea. It’s actually a smart idea, since it sets up a bunch of potential story developments.


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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nah. It’s not a dumb idea. It’s actually a smart idea, since it sets up a bunch of potential story developments.


Writing illogical shit is not smart by any means, and forced development is just shit writing.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Writing illogical shit is not smart by any means, and forced development is just shit writing.


There’s nothing at all illogical about it. He spent years now training and fighting in the New World as the apprentice to a rival of the Pirate King and Haki blooms in battle.


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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There’s nothing at all illogical about it. He spent years now training and fighting in the New World as the apprentice to a rival of the Pirate King and Haki blooms in battle.


Coby isn't Luffy, his rank is a joke, and he has never done anything to even match someone like Smoker, much less Hancock.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Coby isn't Luffy, his rank is a joke, and he has never done anything to even match someone lie Smoker, much less Hancock.


What does being Luffy have to do with this? Do you feel the same way about Zoro and Law fighting Kaido? Zoro was Lucci level at best before the Timeskip and unlike Luffy, he hasn’t been going through a series of intense fights. Law was comfortably below Doflamingo in strength and now he’s in a fight with two people that would easily beat Doffy, even though he hasn’t gone through a series of intense fights or done a significant amount of training.

As I’ve already stated, rank is irrelevant.

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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> What does being Luffy have to do with this? Do you feel the same way about Zoro and Law fighting Kaido? Zoro was Lucci level at best before the Timeskip and unlike Luffy, he hasn’t been going through a series of intense fights. Law was comfortably below Doflamingo in strength and now he’s in a fight with two people that would easily beat Doffy, even though he hasn’t gone through a series of intense fights or done a significant amount of training.
> 
> As I’ve already stated, rank is irrelevant.


Zoro and Law are relevant main characters, and Coby was non-existent for most of the manga.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Zoro and Law are relevant main characters, and Coby was non-existent for most of the manga.


If you think Koby is an irrelevant character, you haven’t been paying attention. He’s not as important as any of the Straw Hats obviously, but but he goes back to Chapter 2. Oda’s clearly always had plans for him. Law and the other Supernovas weren’t even thought of until the later parts of Part 1. Of the Supernovas, the only one that he imagined would become really important was Kid.


You also didn’t really answer the question. How did they get strong enough to put up a fight against Kaido?

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## Trueno (Apr 8, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Coby isn't Luffy, his rank is a joke, and he has never done anything to even match someone like Smoker, much less Hancock.


Koby developed haki around the same time as Luffy, mastered Rokushiki during the timeskip (unknown if he knows rokuogan). Was trained under Garp alongside Helmeppo. Koby can also have his haki bloom.

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## Klarionan (Apr 8, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Koby developed haki around the same time as Luffy, mastered Rokushiki during the timeskip (unknown if he knows rokuogan). Was trained under Garp alongside Helmeppo. Koby can also have his haki bloom.






Lee-Sensei said:


> If you think Koby is an irrelevant character, you haven’t been paying attention. He’s not as important as any of the Straw Hats obviously, but but he goes back to Chapter 2. Oda’s clearly always had plans for him. Law and the other Supernovas weren’t even thought of until the later parts of Part 1. Of the Supernovas, the only one that he imagined would become really important was Kid.


I have paid attention, that is why i know that Coby was not existent for most of the manga.


Lee-Sensei said:


> You also didn’t really answer the question. How did they get strong enough to put up a fight against Kaido?


Because of Oda's questionable writing.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> I have paid attention, that is why i know that Coby was not existent for most of the manga.
> 
> Because of Oda's questionable writing.


Buddy, if you don’t like the character that’s totally fine. But Koby was planned for early on. The Supernovas weren’t.



Klarionan said:


>


What is your actual argument against his points?

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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Just because coby says x doesn't mean it's going to happen. Coby hadn't displayed any level of power in the story that makes any sane reader ok with coby randomly being strong enough to take out boa himself.


Zoro never displayed anything that would lead anyone to think he could block 2 of the yonko's strongest attacks at the same time but it happened anyway. We haven't seen Koby fight seriously ever. Oda can do what he wants since he clearly doesn't care about power levels. Coby will be as strong as Oda want's him to be whether it makes sense or not.

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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (Apr 9, 2021)

if he dies he dies

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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Ayy lmao said:


> So unless Coby is several ranks stronger than an average Captain


He is. Coby is a captain at marine headquarters. Oda said that ranks at headquarters are 3 ranks above marines not stationed at headquarters. So he's more like a rear admiral in rank than a captain.

*D: Hello, Oda-sensei!! I've always wondered, are all the Marine Captains [Taisa] and above at the Marine Headquarters different than the Captains at the Marine Bases? Are they just raised tougher, or what
By the guy from the mask store.

O:* Yes. They're way different. The Marine Headquarters are like the super-elite of the Marines. These men who appeared at the assembly in Volume 11. These are the men in the Headquarters' "Junior Officers" ranks (Lieutenant [Taii], Junior Lt. [Chuui], Ensign [Shoui]) but if the former Base Captain [Taisa] "Axe-Arm Morgan" or "Captain [Taisa] Nezumi" from Nami's home were there, they would be among those men. The Headquarters and standard Base ranks are about three ranks apart, you could say. A higher Captain [Taisa] at a Base would be a lower Lieutenant [Taii] at Headquarters, and a Commander [Chuusa] would be a Junior Lieutenant [Chuui].

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## Trueno (Apr 9, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Zoro never displayed anything that would lead anyone to think he could block 2 of the yonko's strongest attacks at the same time but it happened anyway. We haven't seen Koby fight seriously ever. Oda can do what he wants since he clearly doesn't care about power levels. Coby will be as strong as Oda want's him to be whether it makes sense or not.


Zoro literally was trained by the world's greatest swordsman and wield's a Yonko wounding weapon. He cut through Pica..

And let's not forget... Whitebeard has a top grade blade and Roger likely does too which insinuates that Mihawk and Shanks are either their equals or above them in their prime (in terms of swordplay).

Zoro has had all of the foreshadowing in the world. Especially since he's as strong if not stronger than Luffy

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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Zoro literally was trained by the world's greatest swordsman and wield's a Yonko wounding weapon. He cut through Pica..


Pica is nowhere near Kaido and big mom by themselves let alone them attacking together, so miss me with that shit.


Bryant D. Koby said:


> And let's not forget... Whitebeard has a top grade blade and Roger likely does too which insinuates that Mihawk and Shanks are either their equals or above them in their prime (in terms of swordplay).


What does that have to do with Zoro stalling 2 yonko attacks by himself?


Bryant D. Koby said:


> Zoro has had all of the foreshadowing in the world. Especially since he's as strong if not stronger than Luffy


Yeah no. Before it happened if someone said Zoro could stall 2 of their strongest attacks at the same time no one would have said he could.

Also, you don't know what foreshadowing is. Foreshadowing is laying the seeds for something specific that pays off later. Ace giving Luffy the vivre card in Alabasta and it becoming relevant at the end of thriller bark. Doffy saying "smiles" to disco in Sabaody and it becoming relevant in punk hazard. Thats foreshadowing, theres nothing like this for Zoro stopping 2 Yonko attacks.


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## Trueno (Apr 9, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Pica is nowhere near Kaido and big mom by themselves let alone them attacking together, so miss me with that shit.
> 
> What does that have to do with Zoro stalling 2 yonko attacks by himself?
> 
> ...


That's total foreshadowing. Zoro is literally wielding the blades of the last known man to wound Kaido and be considered among the likes of Whitebeard and Roger. Then we have Zoro with Law (one of the most OP characters), Kidd (Luffy s rival), Luffy, and Killer... And you expect him to just die or be de-commissioned after training with a Yonko-cutting sword.

Not every foreshadowing has to be played out three arcs later. Otherwise this series' pacing would be terrible.


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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> That's total foreshadowing. Zoro is literally wielding the blades of the last known man to wound Kaido and be considered among the likes of Whitebeard and Roger. Then we have Zoro with Law (one of the most OP characters), Kidd (Luffy s rival), Luffy, and Killer... And you expect him to just die or be de-commissioned after training with a Yonko-cutting sword.


I didn't say that  bro. I said nothing he did before he stalled 2 yonko attacks would have led us to believe he could do it. Thats all i said, don't strawman me.


Bryant D. Koby said:


> Not every foreshadowing has to be played out three arcs later. Otherwise this series' pacing would be terrible.


I never said this either, i was just giving examples of what foreshadowing actually is. If say Zoro was in whole cake and by himself stopped big moms ikoku sovereignty. That would be set-up for him briefly stalling their combined attack because he could stop one of theirs. But we never got a scene like that or anything similar hence no foreshadowing.


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## Oda Report (Apr 9, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Zoro never displayed anything that would lead anyone to think he could block 2 of the yonko's strongest attacks at the same time but it happened anyway. We haven't seen Koby fight seriously ever. Oda can do what he wants since he clearly doesn't care about power levels.



Actually no,  Zoro situation and build up doesn't =/= Cobys non-existent build up to be powerful enough to take out a seven Armed Seas CoC user who was hyped by sengoku and many other MHQ/WG operatives.

Oda does care about a characters strength just look at everything luffy and Zoro had to do to get to the point where they are just to be on the rooftop vs these yonkou.

Oda isn't so good of a writer to draw up random coby ass puffs from his cigarettes. All that type of writing has to be staged.

Oda had staged nothing for coby at this point. For coby to be as powerful as some claim. 



itsxtray said:


> Cobyby will be as strong as Oda want's him to be whether it makes sense or not.



Of course doesn't make it good. Oda will get the memes just like any other writer who get sloppy.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Actually no,  Zoro situation and build up doesn't =/= Cobys non-existent build up to be powerful enough to take out a seven Armed Seas CoC user who was hyped by sengoku and many other MHQ/WG operatives.
> 
> Oda does care about a characters strength just look at everything luffy and Zoro had to do to get to the point where they are just to be on the rooftop vs these yonkou.
> 
> ...


Nope. He has. You don’t have to like it, but the build up was there. Come back to reality. His goal to be an Admiral, mastering Rokushiki in less than 3 years, awakening Haki pre-Timeskip, training under Garp for years. The build up was definitely there.

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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Oda does care about a characters strength just look at everything luffy and Zoro had to do to get to the point where they are just to be on the rooftop vs these yonkou.


We saw what Luffy did and all the extreme fights and training he had to go through before and during wano but what did Zoro do? Get Enma, thats it. Thats not build up at all thats an unquantifiable power-up for a character no one knew the exact level of.


Oda Report said:


> Oda had staged nothing for coby at this point. For coby to be as powerful as some claim.


Doesn't matter. Look at Croc in marineford. Dude lost to pre gears Luffy and was in jail the whole time but he showed up at Marineford way more powerful for no reason. Like i said Oda can and will do whatever he wants regardless of it making sense.

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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 9, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> We saw what Luffy did and all the extreme fights and training he had to go through before and during wano but what did Zoro do? Get Enma, thats it. Thats not build up at all thats an unquantifiable power-up for a character no one knew the exact level of.
> 
> Doesn't matter. Look at Croc in marineford. Dude lost to pre gears Luffy and was in jail the whole time but he showed up at Marineford way more powerful for no reason. Like i said Oda can and will do whatever he wants regardless of it making sense.


I don’t actually mind the Zoro power up. He needs to reach that level if he’s going to beat Mihawk near the end of the series. But the hypocrisy is kind of funny.


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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don’t actually mind the Zoro power up. He needs to reach that level if he’s going to beat Mihawk near the end of the series. But the hypocrisy is kind of funny.


Agreed, i was fine with Enma. I would have preferred an extreme diff Zoro fight before wano but whatever.

Coby is a unique character which seems like the reason some people downplay his importance. He's not integral to the plot and we've only seen him periodically since the manga started but we know his destiny.

Downplay the man who will lead the new marines into the future at your own peril.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## muchentuchen (Apr 9, 2021)

Will he beat her? Maybe. Will he meat her? 100%

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Apr 9, 2021)

Hell no, she kicks his ass. 

Hancock's probably getting captured and that will be a plot point to make her seem more relevant, but it won't be Coby's trophy to hold.

I can see the intervention of some VAs, slim chances of a collaboration between Coby/Smoker, or maybe even our first look at Green Bull.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Apr 9, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> We saw what Luffy did and all the extreme fights and training he had to go through before and during wano but what did Zoro do? Get Enma, thats it. Thats not build up at all thats an unquantifiable power-up for a character no one knew the exact level of.



Enma isn't what making Zoro so durable, Enma just happened there is more to Zoros progression then just Enma.

Please don't compare Cobys non existent progression to Zoros. 



itsxtray said:


> Doesn't matter. Look at Croc in marineford. Dude lost to pre gears Luffy and was in jail the whole time but he showed up at Marineford way more powerful for no reason. Like i said Oda can and will do whatever he wants regardless of it making sense.


It matter for any decent story. 
You can repeat that all you want doesn't make it good.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 9, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> beat


But Luffy is already 1v1ing a yonko and Koby cant beat Hanacock? 
You can keep coping all you want Koby is Luffy marine counterpart just as luffy willl defeat Kaido, koby will defeat hanacock
until they meet


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## Breadman (Apr 9, 2021)

At this point Coby might need to beat her with how much he's lagging behind with Luffy's ridiculous gains.

Reactions: Like 1


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## itsxtray (Apr 9, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Enma isn't what making Zoro so durable, Enma just happened there is more to Zoros progression then just Enma.
> 
> Please don't compare Cobys non existent progression to Zoros.


Since you're so knowledgeable explain Zoro's progression from the timeskip till now to me then.


Oda Report said:


> It matter for any decent story.
> You can repeat that all you want doesn't make it good.


I never said it makes it good i actually hate it but it's facts.


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## Amol (Apr 10, 2021)

Is it possible that Hancock would get captured ?
Well of course.
If she must get captured then she would get captured whatever new weapon Vegapunk made. That weapon need hype after all.

Sengoku respected Hancock's strength. Aokiji compared her with DD.
Navy is not stupid enough to send just a newbie Captain to capture Warlord of the Sea of Hancock's caliber.
She will wipe the floor with him. I have no idea how could anyone possibly think Coby stands any chance. He is a nobody. If he had that much strength , Marines would have made him Vice Admiral. 

Coby is not Luffy's rival. Luffy is his idol. Coby worships the ground Luffy walks upon. He literally needed Luffy believing in his dream to be even able to say his dream out loud in Water 7. That is not rivalry between two similar level people. 

Coby will become Admiral one day but that probably would be epilogue of the series.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Venom (Apr 10, 2021)

With the current power inflation going on I wouldn't be too surprised if he is as strong as Hancock.


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## Firo (Apr 10, 2021)

He will either get bodied or mention that he’s a friend of Luffy and she doesn’t fight him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

Amol said:


> Is it possible that Hancock would get captured ?
> Well of course.
> If she must get captured then she would get captured whatever new weapon Vegapunk made. That weapon need hype after all.
> 
> ...


Obviously not. Koby isn’t equal to Luffy. He wasn’t at Water 7 and he isn’t now. Hancock almost certainly isn’t either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Apr 11, 2021)

Amol said:


> Is it possible that Hancock would get captured ?
> Well of course.
> If she must get captured then she would get captured whatever new weapon Vegapunk made. That weapon need hype after all.
> 
> ...


Why would Koby need to be Luffys rival to overcome Boa?

Boas level is unknown, so it’s nothing short of fanfic with how you act as if beating her means Koby beat a top tier, her best feat is kicking fodder and a pacifista.

Koby already beat her, we just need to see the other side of news/ world.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## maupp (Apr 11, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> *Hopefully the fight will be on-screen*. I think Hancock is gonna kick Coby’s ass. Do you think Coby will defeat Hancock?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## maupp (Apr 11, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Nah. It really wouldn’t be and there’s no reason to set this up, if Koby’s not going to play a significant role in it. If not the primary role.


I'm of the belief that Hancock is getting captures but not by Coby alone. Oda made sure to send Fuji there to make Hancock capture realistic. 

If Oda wanted to hype Coby's growth by capturing Hancock alone, he wouldn't have sent Fuji there.

Hancock will most likely get wrecked by Fuji. Maybe Coby will be said to play some role but Fuji will be the one to job her.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Amol (Apr 11, 2021)

Beast said:


> Why would Koby need to be Luffys rival to overcome Boa?


I was disapproving that one argument many times I see in just about any Coby thread.
Somehow some people argue Coby as Luffy's Garp. I find that not only plain wrong but  also insulting as a Garp fan.


Beast said:


> Boas level is unknown, so it’s nothing short of fanfic with how you act as if beating her means Koby beat a top tier, her best feat is kicking fodder and a pacifista.


Fodderizing many  Pacifistas you mean. Same feat Oda had used to showcase new and improved Luffy after TS.
And _Sentomaru _who was capable of using barrier haki.
She also has this thing called hype from both Sengoku and Kuzan.
Coby does not have a feat of beating even a Pacifista if we are to get technical.
So Hancock's hype puts her around DD level more or less. A solid High Tier.

Coby is not there.  He does not have feats, hype or portrayal .


Beast said:


> Koby already beat her, we just need to see the other side of news/ world.


And then you talk about others using fanfic. 
I like Coby but I am gonna make lot of threads when Hancock kicks his ass though personally I don't think they are fighting at all. Hancock's main fight obviously would be Vegapunk's weapon on which Issho is betting everything.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Mrdude (Apr 11, 2021)

Whenever Koby comes across someone related to Luffy it usually ends with him being friendly with that person, so i doubt it.

But if it’s true thatFujitora is there then things might not end that way.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

maupp said:


> I'm of the belief that Hancock is getting captures but not by Coby alone. Oda made sure to send Fuji there to make Hancock capture realistic.
> 
> If Oda wanted to hype Coby's growth by capturing Hancock alone, he wouldn't have sent Fuji there.
> 
> Hancock will most likely get wrecked by Fuji. Maybe Coby will be said to play some role but Fuji will be the one to job her.


Are we really talking about realism in the middle of this Rooftop stuff? We don’t know that Fujitora is heading to Amazon Lily.


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## maupp (Apr 11, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Are we really talking about realism in the middle of this Rooftop stuff? We don’t know that Fujitora is heading to Amazon Lily.


He is. He was said to be in the middle of the calm belt with sea kings all over. That's how you get to Kuja island.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

maupp said:


> He is. He was said to be in the middle of the calm belt with sea kings all over. That's how you get to Kuja island.


Not really. He could be anywhere. The Calm Belt is pretty big. In any case, even if Fujitora is there, I imagine that he’s not going to do the fighting. The set up implies that Koby will be a big part of the battle at the very least, but Fujitora can almost certainly take her down on his own.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trueno (Apr 11, 2021)

Idk how any of you guys don't think Koby is getting hyped up. He got boosted from kid sidekick to Garp's student, a master of Rokushiki, confronted Law at Rocky Port... and he also was Rear Admiral level until Oda changed it back to Captain in the volume. He's also the fastest ascending Marine. He's getting a huge push. 

The next step from having a confrontation with a Warlord is to beat them or get help from them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Virus (Apr 11, 2021)

It’s literally Coby’s first real operation and he is aspiring to become an admiral. He will defeat Boa Hancock and capture her.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Virus (Apr 11, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> It would be absurd. Hancock was one of the 3 characters undamaged in the MF war, alongside Kizaru and Mihawk, two top tiers.
> 
> Hancock fodderizes VAs it's stupid to have Coby beat her. Coby, the Luffy Stan is going after Hancock, the Luffy Simp. That's the setup, and that's more likely the plot point that he's there to fulfil.


Why would a title like VA stand in the way for Coby do capture Hancock?


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Since you're so knowledgeable explain Zoro's progression from the timeskip till now to me then



Im knowledgeable because I can read the story for what it is. Not what I want it to be. 



itsxtray said:


> I never said it makes it good i actually hate it but it's facts.



Coby beating hancock isn't a fact.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bernkastel (Apr 11, 2021)

After the latest CoC new use and the power inflation, Hancock has all the tools in her belt to be a force to be reckoned with...there's a reason Oda didn't showcase her full power pre-ts...her hype ans portrayal is there too..i mean she was ready to attack a freaking admiral in front of all the other high ranking marines without giving a fuck...Coby's only accomplishment will be to lick her heels

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

Bryant D. Koby said:


> Idk how any of you guys don't think Koby is getting hyped up. He got boosted from kid sidekick to Garp's student, a master of Rokushiki, confronted Law at Rocky Port... and he also was Rear Admiral level until Oda changed it back to Captain in the volume. He's also the fastest ascending Marine. He's getting a huge push.
> 
> The next step from having a confrontation with a Warlord is to beat them or get help from them.


Koby was always a Captain. I read that him being a Rear Admiral was a mistake.


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

Cobys glory won't come from pirate empress.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 11, 2021)

Virus said:


> Why would a title like VA stand in the way for Coby do capture Hancock?


Because Coby isn't as strong as most VAs

Reactions: Agree 1


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## itsxtray (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Im knowledgeable because I can read the story for what it is. Not what I want it to be.


Ok, explain Zoro's progression from the timeskip till now and all the steps he took to increase his strength up to chapter 1010.

I can do this easily with Luffy, so with your knowledge lay it out for me with Zoro, please and thank you.


Oda Report said:


> Coby beating hancock isn't a fact.


Him beating hancock isn't what i said was a fact. Oda doing whatever he want's regardless of whether it makes sense is what i said is a fact.


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Ok, explain Zoro's progression from the timeskip till now and all the steps he took to increase his strength up to chapter 1010.



Zoros progression is well documented, the question is what has coby done?



itsxtray said:


> I can do this easily with Luffy, so with your knowledge lay it out for me with Zoro, please and thank you.



Luffy progression isn't Cobys progress.



itsxtray said:


> Him beating hancock isn't what i said was a fact. Oda doing whatever he want's regardless of whether it makes sense is what i said is a fact.



Yeah that's why oda doesn't have an editor. Oh wait.


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## itsxtray (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Zoros progression is well documented, the question is what has coby done?


Why do you keep avoiding the question? Explain all the steps he took up until chapter 1010.


Oda Report said:


> Luffy progression isn't Cobys progress.


Never said it was


Oda Report said:


> Yeah that's why oda doesn't have an editor. Oh wait.


Every published work has an editor doesn't make it good or consistent with what came before. According to your logic every work with an editor is of quality and has never had nonsensical things in them. Smh.


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## Trueno (Apr 11, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Koby was always a Captain. I read that him being a Rear Admiral was a mistake.


They put him as Rear Admiral in the chapter. They changed it in the volume. Similar to how Katakuri was a logia, but they changed it to a special paramecia.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Why do you keep avoiding the question? Explain all the steps he took up until chapter 1010.



it's you who has yet to give me a nick of why coby has a chance to capture hancock himself? 



itsxtray said:


> Never said it was.


Then why bring him up when you are trying to compare cobys progression to Zoros? 

Luffy has no place in this discussion. 


itsxtray said:


> Every published work has an editor doesn't make it good or consistent with what came before. According to your logic every work with an editor is of quality and has never had nonsensical things in them. Smh.



Never implied that once. 

See the thing is that Oda and his editor isn't as sloppy as you are making him out to be with coby defeating hancock without proper steps taken for that to be believeable.


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## itsxtray (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> it's you who has yet to give me a nick of why coby has a chance to capture hancock himself?


I asked first. Also, i already told you. Oda will do whatever he want's whether it makes sense or not.


Oda Report said:


> Then why bring him up when you are trying to compare cobys progression to Zoros?


When did i do that, lol? I used Zoro as an example of someone who didn't do anything to lead us to believe he could stall 2 yonko attacks until he did it. Im saying just because Coby hasn't shown anything doesn't mean Oda won't just have him do something presumably above his pay grade.


Oda Report said:


> Luffy has no place in this discussion.


You brought him up


Oda Report said:


> Never implied that once.


Then why the snark about Oda having an editor if thats wasn't what you were implying?


Oda Report said:


> See the thing is that Oda and his editor isn't as sloppy as you are making him out to be with coby defeating hancock without proper steps taken for that to be believeable.


Well Oda had Zoro stall 2 yonko attacks without the proper steps taken for that to be believable. You can disagree but you still haven't explained those steps to me.

Oda did a bunch of shit at marineford that makes no sense especially with Crocodiles sudden newfound strength. The Katakuri vs Luffy fight is incredibly sloppy in ways that have been well documented. 

Oda isn't as airtight as you make him out to be, especially when it comes to fights and powers he's extremely sloppy.


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> I asked first. Also, i already told you. Oda will do whatever he want's whether it makes sense or not.



And it won't be coby beating hancock outright. 



itsxtray said:


> When did i do that, lol? I used Zoro as an example of someone who didn't do anything to lead us to believe he could stall 2 yonko attacks until he did it. Im saying just because Coby hasn't shown anything doesn't mean Oda won't just have him do something presumably above his pay grade.


That's where you are wrong. Zoro has been a tank since the start of the series. I'm not surprised he survived that weak Yonkou combination attack. Kuma giving Zoro Luffys damage should have told you Zoro is a tank back in thriller bark Zoro has only gotten stronger since. 

Zoros being able to tank attacks without a DF has been displayed since the start of the show.

Zoro being alive after Hawkeyes slash even shook Arlong. 

Zoro tankyness has been a thing since east blue. 

Oda even has a chart of how much blood Zoro lost. 

Coby has nothing that comparison failed that's why you brought up Luffy in exchange. 




itsxtray said:


> You brought him up



Why would I need to bring up Luffys progression when Zoros outright stomps Cobys? 



itsxtray said:


> Then why the snark about Oda having an editor if thats wasn't what you were implying?
> 
> 
> Oda isn't as airtight as you make him out to be, especially when it comes to fights and powers he's extremely sloppy.



We both know how bad oda is at telling a story with consistent shit working. However coby beating hancock won't happen. 

His editor won't allow Oda to go full retard.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> And it won't be coby beating hancock outright.
> 
> That's where you are wrong. Zoro has been a tank since the start of the series. I'm not surprised he survived that weak Yonkou combination attack. Kuma giving Zoro Luffys damage should have told you Zoro is a tank back in thriller bark Zoro has only gotten stronger since.
> 
> ...


None of the things you’ve said has any relevance. We had no reason to believe that Zoro surviving attacks from Emperors until he did it.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Apr 11, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> None of the things you’ve said has any relevance. We had no reason to believe that Zoro surviving attacks from Emperors until he did it.



it's the building blocks to what has occurred. it's not so far fetch since zoro been surving shit that should of killed him long ago.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> it's the building blocks to what has occurred. it's not so far fetch since zoro been surving shit that should of killed him long ago.


Wasn’t Luffy one shotted at the beginning of Wano by Kaido by himself?

Reactions: Like 1


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## itsxtray (Apr 11, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> That's where you are wrong. Zoro has been a tank since the start of the series. I'm not surprised he survived that weak Yonkou combination attack. Kuma giving Zoro Luffys damage should have told you Zoro is a tank back in thriller bark Zoro has only gotten stronger since.


Lol so now that attack was weak huh?  ok bro.


Oda Report said:


> Zoros being able to tank attacks without a DF has been displayed since the start of the show.
> 
> Zoro being alive after Hawkeyes slash even shook Arlong.
> 
> ...


All this shit is irrelevant because i wasn't talking about his tankiness. My problem is that he stalled that shit by himself and before it happened we had no reason to believe he could do it. Him not dying from it is a given this is one piece.

Also, all of that shows Zoro's tankiness but all that shit pales in comparison to a combined yonko attack. And just because you can survive weaker shit pre-ts doesn't mean you should be able to survive 2 yonko attacks post ts.


Oda Report said:


> Coby has nothing that comparison failed that's why you brought up Luffy in exchange.


Bruh, go reread what i wrote. I brought up Luffy in regards to progression in comparison to Zoro not Coby. We've seen every step of Luffys growth post-ts but you refuse to explain that same growth for Zoro because it doesn't exist.


Oda Report said:


> Why would I need to bring up Luffys progression when Zoros outright stomps Cobys?


You know nothing about Coby's progression. None of us do. Oda can make him as strong as he want's and justify it later. Just like Crocodile got a huge boost sitting on his ass in impel down. At least he has the explanation of Garp training.


Oda Report said:


> We both know how bad oda is at telling a story with consistent shit working. However coby beating hancock won't happen.


Im not saying it will but i wouldn't be surprised if it did.


Oda Report said:


> His editor won't allow Oda to go full retard.


Depends on your definition of that i guess, cause to me he seriously jumped the shark in the Katakuri fight and has continued to jump it with everything regarding Kaido.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 11, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Lol so now that attack was weak huh?  ok bro.
> 
> All this shit is irrelevant because i wasn't talking about his tankiness. My problem is that he stalled that shit by himself and before it happened we had no reason to believe he could do it. Him not dying from it is a given this is one piece.
> 
> ...


You make good points, but I’d also like to add that Koby got haki Pre-TS and Haki blooms in battle. Having Haki during his training with Garp and Sengoku and his fighting in the New World could explain his massive growth rate. Plus, beating Hancock would still leave him far off from current Luffy.


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## itsxtray (Apr 11, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> You make good points, but I’d also like to add that Koby got haki Pre-TS and Haki blooms in battle. Having Haki during his training with Garp and Sengoku and his fighting in the New World could explain his massive growth rate. Plus, beating Hancock would still leave him far off from current Luffy.


Agreed. In terms of physical ability Luffy is definitely stronger but I wouldn't be surprised if Coby has better observation and had solid armament in his own right.

Coby learned haki at the same time as the monster trio so i see no reason for them to be far above him, and had just as good a teacher as them.

People like to say Mihawk was better for Zoro than Rayleigh was for Luffy b/c they're both swordsman, well Garp & Coby have the same synergy as Mihawk & Zoro.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

itsxtray said:


> Agreed. In terms of physical ability Luffy is definitely stronger but I wouldn't be surprised if Coby has better observation andbhad solid armament in his own right.
> 
> Coby learned haki at the same time as the monster trio so i see no reason for them to be far above him, and had just as good a teacher as them.
> 
> People like to say Mihawk was better for Zoro than Rayleigh was for Luffy b/c they're both swordsman, well Garp & Coby have the same synergy as Mihawk & Zoro.


Agreed. He probably specializes in CoO. Too be honest, he had a better teacher than Sanji. Ivankov is great, but he’s far below Mihawk, Rayleigh and Garp. Heck... Sengoku might have even helped. At the end of Part 1, he said that he was resigning as the Fleet Admiral to train the next generation of Marines. His CoA is probably solid and I wouldn’t be surprised if he Has future sight. Add that to the experience he gained in the New World and his mastery of Rokushiki and he should be relatively formidable. I imagine that he’s at least Franky level or in the gap between Sanji/Jinbei and Franky.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Apr 12, 2021)

Amol said:


> I was disapproving that one argument many times I see in just about any Coby thread.
> Somehow some people argue Coby as Luffy's Garp. I find that not only plain wrong but  also insulting as a Garp fan.
> 
> Fodderizing many  Pacifistas you mean. Same feat Oda had used to showcase new and improved Luffy after TS.
> ...


Not really, I think Odas wanked Luffy enough for everyone to know that luffy is Roger and Garp put together. His only rival is plot at this point... that doesn’t really change Koby being third only to Luffy and Shanks as far as introduction into the story goes and still, Oda has him growing... so it’s just dishonest to act as if beating Boa isn’t actually possible despite Oda going out of his way to set it up.


It really changes nothing, Pacifistas are fodder, you trying to draw a link between Luffy and Boa is very long stretch.

sentomaru doesn’t really have anything to do with Boa or Koby, so I’m just move past that.

You can get technical all you want, beating fodder and a pacifista is not a feat worth anything. Kobys Rocky port incident and being labelled a hero is worth a dozen more praise then kicking fodder and a pacifista that can even attack you as it’s set on friendly against Schichibukai.
Yes, Sengoku and Aokiji did hype her up... but what was that hype? You tell me how much hype that was worth.

her being DD is fanfic, it’s been disproven a long time ago, it’s about a lost translation regarding Sengoku hyping her and DD not putting them on the same level and clearly she has nothing to support that suggestion. 
Compared to Sengoku and Aokiji, Luckily Koby actually has the author going out of his way to hype him, calling his KH exceptional, Him completely mastering Rokushiki, Kyros calling him Strong from just one look.
I don’t really have a problem with you thinking that Koby isn’t going to win but after all Oda has set up... to suggest that it’s impossible is just plain wrong.

Kobys feat/ accomplishments - Stopping torpedo and saving civilians from Laws rocky port incident that made Law a shichibukai.
- Hype Oda himself 
- portrayal is quite clear, Koby is a sword member (undercover), Captain at the HQ and currently tasked to take down Boa Hancock.
It’s really nothing short of delusion to act as if things haven’t been set up or you just haven’t been reading properly.

I think the only fanfic I see is you suggesting that Koby has no hype or portrayal, while you can argue feats... which is better I wonder kicking a not moving Pacifista or stopping a torpedo miles while you’re miles away that’s underwater... hmm... I do wonder.

Hahah, you do you bruh... just know I’m treat you like I treat the ZKK once he drags her by her hair

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

*Cannon*




*OL Fanfic*



*Cannon*



*OL Fanfic*

​

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Samehadaman (Apr 12, 2021)

He is too low on the Marine ranks to be sent as main guy to lead capture Hancock fleet.

Must be someone else leading that taskforce, even if it is Vice Admiral that ends up actually being weaker than Coby.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> *Cannon*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The funny thing is that I never suggested that the SSG won’t be part of it. What’s delusional is pretending that Koby wasn’t set up to fight Hancock without being stomped. If she is captured, he’s almost certainly going to play a significant role in her defeat.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The funny thing is that I never suggested that the SSG won’t be part of it. What’s delusional is pretending that Koby wasn’t set up to fight Hancock without being stomped. If she is captured, he’s almost certainly going to play a significant role in her defeat.


Can’t wait till you start rocking your new Username Lee Sensei 

And I wasn’t exclusively responding to you fyi

Only thing he’s been set up to do is participate and be present in her capture.  Extrapolating anything else is fallacious.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 12, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## 9TalesOfDestruction (Apr 12, 2021)

They will fight to a draw for 10 days and 10 nights to reveal who is the biggest luffy fangirl. Amazon lily will be uninhabitable like punk hazard as everything is turned to stone.


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## TheOmega (Apr 12, 2021)

It's gonna be a fight for the title of First Mate


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Can’t wait till you start rocking your new Username Lee Sensei
> 
> And I wasn’t exclusively responding to you fyi
> 
> Only thing he’s been set up to do is participate and be present in her capture.  Extrapolating anything else is fallacious.


We’ll see. Remember that you have to change your name if Hancock doesn’t stomp him.

Why do you think he said that he was going there to capture Hanock?


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## Amol (Apr 12, 2021)

Coby is more likely to help Hancock evacuate her island(and then escape) than he is likely to "capture" her. There are innocents on that island after all.
Especially when Luffy connection becomes obvious.

Vegapunk's weapon probably would be some new emotionless overpowered robot who would start attacking everyone indiscriminately . That weapon(s) is suppose to replace Warlords after all. Oda is obviously going to use that arc to hype that weapon and not Coby . The entire reason WG felt comfortable  in abolishing Warlord system is SSG and you know not Coby. So pretty obvious Hancock's main fight would be that weapon. Even if she loses, she will lose to that weapon to hype it up. 

The way I see entire reason Oda put Coby in this mission is to allow Hancock(or atleast her people) escape. Coby is a good guy who will do good guy stuff there. He ain't there to fight.

This whole fanfiction version of Coby who apparently is this crazy strong friend who can take down warlords  of Hancock's caliber does not match his manga version. Coby fanboys are setting themselves for a massive disappointment here.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> We’ll see. Remember that you have to change your name if Hancock doesn’t stomp him.


Too bad she won't be captured and Coby won't be playing a huge part of her being captured if she does get captured 


Lee-Sensei said:


> Why do you think he said that he was going there to capture Hanock?


Because he was going there to capture Hancock... along with a portion of the SSG and Fujitora.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Too bad she won't be captured and Coby won't be playing a huge part of her being captured if she does get captured
> 
> Because he was going there to capture Hancock... along with a portion of the SSG and Fujitora.


Sabo will... Vivi will... Hancock will!

Do you think Fujitora needs the SSG to take down Hancock?

Why wouldn’t he say that he was sailing with Fujitora to capture Hancock? The way that was phrased suggested that he was personally going to do it. Not that someone much stronger than him was going to do it.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> The way that was phrased suggested that he was personally going to do it.


Yeah, the marines sent a fucking Captain to personally defeat one of the strongest Shichibukai

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yeah, the marines sent a fucking Captain to personally defeat one of the strongest Shichibukai


Do you think Koby is “Captain level”?


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Do you think Koby is “Captain level”?


Doesn't matter, he is a captain, and you can be damn well sure that he's not in charge there.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Doesn't matter, he is a captain, and you can be damn well sure that he's not in charge there.


1) You mentioned strength. So it absolutely matters.

2) Captain Hina had 8 ships under her command Pre-TS. We saw 6 heading for Amazon Lily.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) You mentioned strength. So it absolutely matters.


I mentioned Hancock's strength. The Marines would send an appropriate fleet. A captain is not appropriate. No matter how strong the captain is. Buster Calls have 5 VAs for a reason.



Lee-Sensei said:


> 2) Captain Hina had 8 ships under her command Pre-TS. We saw 6 heading for Amazon Lily.


And captain Hina would never ever be entrusted to capture a shichibukai


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I mentioned Hancock's strength. The Marines would send an appropriate fleet. A captain is not appropriate. No matter how strong the captain is. Buster Calls have 5 VAs for a reason.
> 
> And captain Hina would never ever be entrusted to capture a shichibukai


1) You saying that doesn’t make it true. We don’t know who went there besides Koby or who’s in command. But the way the scene was written clearly implied that he’d be taking a principal role in the battle there.

2) Do you think Pre-TS Hina was comparable to a Rokushiki master from the New World with advanced Haki?


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> 1) You saying that doesn’t make it true. We don’t know who went there besides Koby or who’s in command. But the way the scene was written clearly implied that he’d be taking a principal role in the battle there.


No it didn't. You saying it's implying that doesn't make it true lol. His mission is to capture Hancock. Doesn't mean he'll take a principal role.

And no, me saying it doesn't make it true. Basic logic and understanding of the story makes it true. Captains are sent to finish off hurt tired Straw hats after they fight with the CP9. They're not sent to capture a Shichibukai on their own.
The Marines do shit by rank. That's why no one below a captain was in MF. Note, Captain is the absolutely lowest rank the Marines considered not to be absolute fodder to NW pirates. And now they would send a Captain to capture a Shichibukai? noperino



Lee-Sensei said:


> 2) Do you think Pre-TS Hina was comparable to a Rokushiki master from the New World with advanced Haki?


Do you enjoy ignoring people's posts? They're both captains. In Marines eyes, yes, they are absolutely comparable.+
Even Tashigi is a rokushiki master lol quit sucking coby's dick

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> No it didn't. You saying it's implying that doesn't make it true lol. His mission is to capture Hancock. Doesn't mean he'll take a principal role.
> 
> And no, me saying it doesn't make it true. Basic logic and understanding of the story makes it true. Captains are sent to finish off hurt tired Straw hats after they fight with the CP9. They're not sent to capture a Shichibukai on their own.
> The Marines do shit by rank. That's why no one below a captain was in MF. Note, Captain is the absolutely lowest rank the Marines considered not to be absolute fodder to NW pirates. And now they would send a Captain to capture a Shichibukai? noperino
> ...


1) Why didn’t he say that Fujitora was sent to Amazon Lily and that he was fighting under him?

2) What are you on about? There were Seaman recruits at MF. And again... you’re comparing Koby to the Captains at Enies Lobby. Which of those Captains do you think is comparable to Koby.

3) Tashigi is a Rokushiki master? Where did it say that? Does she also have advanced Haki?


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Sabo will... Vivi will... Hancock will!


Shit diff Sabo.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Do you think Fujitora needs the SSG to take down Hancock?


I don't think Luffy needed to use G4 on a number but that is what he used to take one down.  I don't think SSG+Admirals+VA's+Rear Admirals+Captains are needed to take all the Shichibukai down and yet they are all present and stationed to help take down the Shichibukai.  It's stated by not only Koby but Akainu, the literal leader of the entire Marine organization that they do not have the man power to relegate forces any where else.

What you need to understand is that Akainu has no faith in the SSG and was against abolishing the Shichibukai system.  So while an Admiral in my eyes can beat Hancock with mid diff at worst, that doesn't mean VA's+SSG's will be able to accomplish the same thing, at least in Akainu's eyes.  At the very least Akainu thinks only VA's, lesser Marines and SSG would give Hancock the oppurtunity to escape where as having Fujitora there ensures the probablity of her being captured to as best as it can be.  Akainu has faith in Fujitora's powers, he literally promoted Fuji and Green Bull into the Admiral position.  He had no faith in the SSG on the other hand.

Him having Fujitora be present in taking down Hancock is likely reassurance on his part.  Remember what Akainu said about the Marines losing face as well as himself because he is the leader currently when he got mad at the Gorosai for letting Doflamingo do whatever he wants?  Akainu is most certainly doing his best to make sure none of the Shichibukai escape or beat the forces sent to capture them because that will make not only the WG but the Marines look like idiots for abolishing the Shichibukai and than failing to capture them to, and god forbid they actually decimate their forces sent to capture them.  So you might be thinking "Fujitora is over-kill for Hancock along with a bunch of other forces" but that does not matter to Akainu, it is clearly very important to him to not have the Marines fuck up or look bad and he is willing to make their captures stomps or low diffs if he wants to leave no room for error.

The Marines having Admirals, VA's and significant forces of theirs on stand by sipping tea and eating crackers at Marine HQ is fanfic.  What is clearly explained  is that they are all too busy and on the Sea right now getting things done.

So it's not about what I think, but what has clearly been established, what Akainu thinks and what Akainu is doing to ensure the highest probablity of the Shichibukai being captured.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Why wouldn’t he say that he was sailing with Fujitora to capture Hancock? The way that was phrased suggested that he was personally going to do it. Not that someone much stronger than him was going to do it.


That's not how that works.  He didn't say he was going with Fuji and the SSG but we know for a fact the SSG are part of that mission and we know that Fujitora is out on a war ship presumably near the Calm Belt beside a Sea King.  It doesn't matter if Coby didn't say to X-Drake exactly who he was with, how they were going to do it, talk about the SSG or give him every minute detail because giving the readers all of that information clearly isn't what Oda chose to do on that chapter.

Take Weevil for instance, the forces we see surround him are literal fodder foot soldiers on chapter 956-957.  When we see Mihawk we only see dozens of war ships surrounding his Island but no named individuals, SSG or an Admiral, and yet you think because Oda chose to be ambiguous with showing everything going on with the Shichibukai it means we can extrapolate indefinite conclusions from it?  I'm to assume only Fodder got sent after Weevil because no one mentioned anything else and nothing else was shown?  I don't think so.  That goes against everything making sense.  Koby not mentioning X or Y is irrelevant when we have other information/Panels and logical possibilities to consider.

It's clear the SSG are apart of this mission and supposed to prove themselves as a capable force.  It's clear the Marines have significant forces apart of this mission, so significant that Akainu, the leader of that entire organization says they can't send them anywhere else.  It's clear Fujitora is apart of this mission.  I would say it's even 99% likely Green Bull is part of this(Likely at Weevil or Mihawk's spot).

There is nothing definite about what Coby is going to do.  Will he do most of the leg work to capture Hancock?  Will Hancock even be captured?  Will the SSG prove their worth or will Mihawk, Weevil and Hancock beat tf out of them and prove that Akainu was right in having no faith in them?Who knows what will happen.  This is One Piece, Oda can do whatever he wants.  Blackbeard is even implied to want to go capture them himself.  What's that going to look like?  Will he fuck up the Marines+SSG trying to capture the Shichibukai or will Shanks intercept him?

There is nothing definite or confirmed or conclusive about Koby's role in capturing Hancock other than being set up to participate in that event, nothing else.

Anyways, we've already done this song and dance Lee Sensei, agree to disagree.

Just make sure you're still posting when you start rockin' that UN

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Beyonce (Apr 12, 2021)

Hancock is too popular and brings too much money to the series for oda to have her get captured and put back into slavery without doing something noteworthy. She hasn’t done shit in the story for over a decade and still landed in the top 10 in a *global* poll. Having one of your most popular characters beaten by Koby is vomit inducing


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Hancock is too popular and brings too much money to the series for oda to have her get captured and put back into slavery without doing something noteworthy. She hasn’t done shit in the story for over a decade and still landed in the top 10 in a *global* poll. Having one of your most popular characters beaten by Koby is vomit inducing


One Piece does all kinds of shit that to me doesn't make sense or is believable so I won't ignore the possibility, but I think the probability of Koby solo'ing Hancock 1vs1 is like 1%.  Makes zero sense with Brannew and Fujitora talking about the SSG and Fujitora being shown on a War ship beside the calm belt and Akainu saying they have barely any forces to send other places.

Welcome back.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> One Piece does all kinds of shit that to me doesn't make sense or is believable so I won't ignore the possibility, but I think the probability of Koby solo'ing Hancock 1vs1 is like 1%.  Makes zero sense with Brannew and Fujitora talking about the SSG and Fujitora being shown on a War ship beside the calm belt and Akainu saying they have barely any forces to send other places.
> 
> Welcome back.


There are 4 active Admirals and Akainu and Kizaru were at Marineford. Don’t you think Fujitora And Ryokugyu would be sent after Mihawk and Weevil first?


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## Beyonce (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> One Piece does all kinds of shit that to me doesn't make sense or is believable so I won't ignore the possibility, but I think the probability of Koby solo'ing Hancock 1vs1 is like 1%.  Makes zero sense with Brannew and Fujitora talking about the SSG and Fujitora being shown on a War ship beside the calm belt and Akainu saying they have barely any forces to send other places.


Agreed. People talk about set up and parallels but I think the most obvious reason these two are meeting is because of their significant ties to the main character, Luffy. Koby capturing Hancock would mean what for Koby exactly? A step towards his dream of being an admiral/a way to hype Koby? Don’t make me laugh, a majority of the people who believe Koby is beating Hancock (wrongly) place Hancock well below DD so what exactly does this do for him besides still being like, what, Vergo tier? He’s still falling ridiculously behind Luffy which is what people are basing him beating Hancock on, catching up to Luffy.



Sloan said:


> Welcome back.


Much love


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Agreed. People talk about set up and parallels but I think the most obvious reason these two are meeting is because of their significant ties to the main character, Luffy. Koby capturing Hancock would mean what for Koby exactly? A step towards his dream of being an admiral/a way to hype Koby? Don’t make me laugh, a majority of the people who believe Koby is beating Hancock (wrongly) place Hancock well below DD so what exactly does this do for him besides still being like, what, Vergo tier? He’s still falling ridiculously behind Luffy which is what people are basing him beating Hancock on, catching up to Luffy.
> 
> 
> Much love


There’s a massive gap between Vergo and Doflamingo. Besides hyping Koby up, it could potentially lead to the Boa sisters past as slaves being exposed and give Luffy a reason to fight the govenernment directly.


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There are 4 active Admirals and Akainu and Kizaru were at Marineford. Don’t you think Fujitora And Ryokugyu would be sent after Mihawk and Weevil first?


Akainu isn't an active Admiral.  He is the Fleet Admiral.  How can he lead the Marines and make so many decisions and be debriefed about a thousand and 1 situations around the World if he's out and about constantly on the fight?  It was Green Bull and Fujitora who were acting as body guards for the Celestial Dragons, along with Cp0 during the Reverie, not Akainu.  It was Kizaru who was going to go to Wano, not Akainu.  When we saw Akainu last he was at Marine HQ, while Fujitora was out on a warship at sea.

I firmly believe at some point Akainu will hop out on the Front Lines, possibly when he has enough of the Gorosai and their shenanigans(I'm hoping he kills them or at least attempts it, or tries fighting Imu) but he definitely isn't an "active" Admiral imo.

If you read Chapter 957 Fujitora is shown on a Warship that's firing off Cannonballs and a Sea King is in front of him and the ships around him.  We know the Marines are allocating all their resources to capturing the Shichibukai, do you think it's a coincidence we saw a Sea King on that panel?  I don't.  I think Fujitora is with Koby.

I don't know if you remember but Sengoku hyped up Hancock back during Marineford and said she is strong and now in this chapter she didn't break a sweat at the thought of her Shichibukai title being stripped and dozens of War Ships being ready to attack her Island.  Personally I don't view her as an Admiral level threat but this goes back to what I said in my post above about Akainu not leaving any room for error or allowing the Marines to look bad, Akainu doesn't have faith in the SSG and while I don't view Hancock as an Admiral level threat I don't consider the VA's a Hancock level threat and we know Akainu doesn't have faith in the SSG so with all that in mind I don't think it's inconceivable to believe that _Akainu believes _sending Fujitora to help with her capture is a decision he wouldn't make to ensure hancock doesn't wipe out multiple Vice Admirals, some of the SSG, making the Marines look bad even if she were to eventually with high or extreme difficulty get captured.

If you're asking what I would personally do if I was Akainu, I would 100% send Green Bull or Fujitora to capture Mihawk along with at least 3 Vice Admirals and some of the SSG.  As for Weevil, Kizaru hyped him up to have strength rivaling Whitebeard in his early days but that is ambiguous and vague.  Is Weevil stronger than Hancock?  I don't know, and maybe it's not a significant difference.  Also Weevil is one person to capture, Hancock has an entire army filled with Haki Users.  They weren't portrayed that strong Pre-TS but with the power creep and the fact that it's been two years I think they will look/be much stronger.

Plus you should consider that Hancock is a dangerous person for most men to come into contact with, Vice Admiral Momonga had to literally stab himself from falling prey to her allure.  Fujitora would be a perfect person to go help capture her, since he legit does not have eyes.  Most Marines, and even Vice Admirals by portrayal would get dealt with by Hancock according to portrayal.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Agreed. People talk about set up and parallels but I think the most obvious reason these two are meeting is because of their significant ties to the main character, Luffy. Koby capturing Hancock would mean what for Koby exactly? A step towards his dream of being an admiral/a way to hype Koby? Don’t make me laugh, a majority of the people who believe Koby is beating Hancock (wrongly) place Hancock well below DD so what exactly does this do for him besides still being like, what, Vergo tier? He’s still falling ridiculously behind Luffy which is what people are basing him beating Hancock on, catching up to Luffy.


I'm not even sure if Koby will be Admiral level by EoS unless we flash forward two years into the future in the epilogue or something.  He will be like Yc1-Yc1+ level, ranging from Katakuri-Marco in level imo.

I agree their connection to Luffy will probably be of significance.  Koby is a nice guy.  He jumped infront of an Admiral to stop him from attacking the Whitebeard Pirates.  He'll probably release Hancock if she gets captured.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beyonce (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There’s a massive gap between Vergo and Doflamingo. Besides hyping Koby up, it could potentially lead to the Boa sisters past as slaves being exposed and give Luffy a reason to fight the govenernment directly.


The scape goat for fighting the WG directly is much more suited and implied to be Vivi or Sabo. Having all 3 of them is too big of a cluster. 

Koby fighting and being the main reason of her capture is a shot in the foot to his own character considering he worships everything about Luffy. Being the reason for the re-enslavement/capture of Luffy’s friend is character suicide for not only Koby, but for Hancock as well. It’s abhorrent writing for a shonen to have a character whose entire backstory was around her sexual abuses to be thrown back into captivity. Nevertheless by a character whose whole backstory is having a moral compass. A fight between these two is unlikely, and if it is, it’s going to be no more than a skirmish and them aiding each other.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> The scape goat for fighting the WG directly is much more suited and implied to be Vivi or Sabo. Having all 3 of them is too big of a cluster.
> 
> Koby fighting and being the main reason of her capture is a shot in the foot to his own character considering he worships everything about Luffy. Being the reason for the re-enslavement/capture of Luffy’s friend is character suicide for not only Koby, but for Hancock as well. It’s abhorrent writing for a shonen to have a character whose entire backstory was around her sexual abuses to be thrown back into captivity. Nevertheless by a character whose whole backstory is having a moral compass. A fight between these two is unlikely, and if it is, it’s going to be no more than a skirmish and them aiding each other.


We don’t know that she was sexually abused, but Hancock being captured and enslaved is also motivation for the more moral marines to re-examine their support of the World Government. They may end up helping each other and bonding over Luffy. That’s possible. I just don’t see him getting stomped given the set up. I like Hancock as a character, but in a lot of ways she’s a bad person. She doesn’t deserve to be in Impel Down though and she certainly shouldn’t be returned to the Celestial Dragons. A couple of years ago, it was implied that Sabo, Vivi and Hancock were in trouble. My guess is that Hancock is going to get captured, Cobra was murdered and it was blamed on Sabo. I could be wrong though.


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> I'm not even sure if Koby will be Admiral level by EoS unless we flash forward two years into the future in the epilogue or something.  He will be like Yc1-Yc1+ level, ranging from Katakuri-Marco in level imo.
> 
> I agree their connection to Luffy will probably be of significance.  Koby is a nice guy.  He jumped infront of an Admiral to stop him from attacking the Whitebeard Pirates.  He'll probably release Hancock if she gets captured.


To be clear, I’m not sure that Koby is going to make it to the top until the epilogue either. I do see him becoming Commander level though (broadly speaking). I think that all off the Straw Hats are going to get there too, by the Final War. We’ll just have to wait for the next Wano intermission.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> To be clear, I’m not sure that Koby is going to make it to the top until the epilogue either. I do see him becoming Commander level though (broadly speaking). I think that all off the Straw Hats are going to get there too, by the Final War.


Yea, having him be Yc3 by EoS would be being generous tbh.  Around a week ago in-universe time Luffy was getting low diffed by Cracker without Nami's help.  EoS One Piece is one week away In-universe time pretty much.  Koby being Admiral level or even Cracker level a week or two from now would be pretty insane.  As always Oda could throw a curveball and do whatever he wants but I don't see the chances that high.


Lee-Sensei said:


> We’ll just have to wait for the next Wano intermission.


Agreed.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 12, 2021)

Amol said:


> suppose to replace Warlords after all. Oda is obviously going to use that arc to hype that weapon and not Coby .


naw shes losing to koby gotta stop right there, his job is to become a admiral and you're seeing it, the equivalent of saying luffy wont beat Kaido
stop hating Garp>Hyogor,Rayleigh
Koby is a beast future admiral that will rival the PK

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Yea, having him be Yc3 by EoS would be being generous tbh


So zoro won't be WSS, EoS?
stop playing yourself, Koby was introduced before all SH's except Luffy, he wants to become a admiral there wont be no epilogue he will get the admiral position 
Oda is hyping this man up to say he has Advanced CoO and Mastered ROku


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## Sloan (Apr 12, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So zoro won't be WSS, EoS?
> stop playing yourself, Koby was introduced before all SH's except Luffy, he wants to become a admiral there wont be no epilogue he will get the admiral position
> Oda is hyping this man up to say he has Advanced CoO and Mastered ROku


I'm not transferring Zoro and Luffy's quick progress to Koby.

You don't even know how strong he is right now, and EoS is like one week away in universe.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> I'm not transferring Zoro and Luffy's quick progress to Koby.
> 
> You don't even know how strong he is right now, and EoS is like one week away in universe.


He has mastered Roku so its likely he has advanced COA
Koby has made quick progress he wasn' t naturally gifted 
a couple trainings from Garp made him into a threat and future admiral hanacock has no relevance just like mihawk they'll be taken down


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 12, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Yea, having him be Yc3 by EoS would be being generous tbh.  Around a week ago in-universe time Luffy was getting low diffed by Cracker without Nami's help.  EoS One Piece is one week away In-universe time pretty much.  Koby being Admiral level or even Cracker level a week or two from now would be pretty insane.  As always Oda could throw a curveball and do whatever he wants but I don't see the chances that high.
> 
> Agreed.


To be honest, I see even Nami and Usopp getting to that point. Less than 2 months ago, Luffy was struggling against Doflamingo and now he’s on his way to beating Kaido. Kaido was the guy that terrified Doflamingo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spirit King (Apr 14, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> There’s a massive gap between Vergo and Doflamingo. Besides hyping Koby up, it could potentially lead to the Boa sisters past as slaves being exposed and give Luffy a reason to fight the govenernment directly.


That sounds like character assassination for Coby. His most defining character trait is trying to stop the WB war. His mentor Garp hates the celestial dragons. Him capturing Hancock and having her past be exposed sounds like you want him to be set up as villain for Luffy to rightly beat down and move on from when the most likely scenario for what your saying is him helping them to escape.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Lots of Hancock wanking in this thread. Coby has already proven to humiliate one Shichibukai before in the past, he will do so once again.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Apr 14, 2021)

I think Coby will be an admiral in the epilogue (like 2-3 years from now). Though he can easily be a YC3/YC2 already we will never know before we see his post TS feats. Luffy jumped from vet. lvl. to YC3+ after Ray's training. Garp's training+some time in the new world should give similar results.


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## Draco Bolton (Apr 14, 2021)

She will beat Coby (imo mid diff at worst) but Pacivistas will finally capture her. 

Fulfilling part of the prophecy about Hancock, Sabo and Vivi being in danger.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gunners (Apr 14, 2021)

I think he will let the Amazons escape. I don't think it is coincidence that he is going after a pirate surrounded by civilians.

He'll have to make a choice on the type of marine he wants to be.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Coby isn't Luffy, his rank is a joke, and he has never done anything to even match someone like Smoker, much less Hancock.



You must not have been paying attention to the story, Coby has already put Law in his place before. So there’s nothing wrong with Coby putting Hancock in her place.

You’re underestimating the future strongest Marine for no reason. Hancock hasn’t done a damn thing to indicate that she won’t be experiencing the exact same L that Coby gave Law.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> I mean seriously, this is the woman who disrespected the world government and spat in their faces when they tried recruiting her for war. And when they did recruit her, SHE SABOTAGED IT. Multiple times in front of high ranking officers. And what did they do? Not a damn thing.



What high ranking Marine did Hancock sabotage stuff in-front of at Marineford? Sentomaru? Well sorry to disappoint you but he wasn’t even a Marine at the time so not sure how you consider him a “high ranking Marine”. Or were you referring to pre-timeskip Smoker as the “high ranking marine” that she sabotaged at Marineford? 




Beyonce said:


> meanwhile they threw jinbe’s ass in a level 6 prison just for the mere idea of opposing this war



What kind of logic is this? Jinbei got thrown in Impel Down for directly rejecting Sengoku’s orders straight to hos face. If Hancock had the courage to oppose an Admiral to their face the same way Jinbei did, then Hancock would also be in Impel Down. We know that Hancock doesn’t have the courage to step up to an Admiral though because all she did was stand there and watch Aokiji almost kill Luffy and Marco had to go rescue him.

Hancock is overrated and there’s no indication that she’s stronger than Coby or Jinbei.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Amol (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You must not have been paying attention to the story, *Coby has already put Law in his place before*. So there’s nothing wrong with Coby putting Hancock in her place.
> 
> You’re underestimating the future strongest Marine for no reason. Hancock hasn’t done a damn thing to indicate that she won’t be experiencing the exact same L that Coby gave Law.


Just so you know this never happened .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Amol said:


> Just so you know this never happened .



Yes it did happen. Law is the mastermind of the Rocky Port incident and Coby is the hero of the Rocky Port incident. Whatever pirate shenanigans Law was attempting to do were crushed by Coby and his amazing CoO.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Amol (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Yes it is. Law is the mastermind of the Rocky Port incident and Coby is the hero of the Rocky Port incident. Whatever pirate shenanigans Law was attempting to do were crushed by Coby and his amazing CoO.


Again that never happened .  
You got one line and you constructed an entire fanfiction around it. There are lot of things that might have happened for which Coby can be considered a Hero of that incident. He probably saved people. WG obviously is not going to give position of Warlord to someone who publicly lost a fight against a Captain(not even a Captain back then). Doesn't exactly invoke fear .

Man I had never thought I would say this but Coby wanking is out of control. People now think he beat Law.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Amol said:


> Again that never happened .
> You got one line and you constructed an entire fanfiction around it. There are lot of things that might have happened for which Coby can be considered a Hero of that incident. He probably saved people. WG obviously is not going to give position of Warlord to someone who publicly lost a fight against a Captain(not even a Captain back then). Doesn't exactly invoke fear .
> 
> Man I had never thought I would say this but Coby wanking is out of control. People now think he beat Law.



I didn’t say that Coby beat Law, I said that he put Law in his place. Aka Coby greatly hindered Law’s plans.


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Yes it did happen. Law is the mastermind of the Rocky Port incident and Coby is the hero of the Rocky Port incident. Whatever pirate shenanigans Law was attempting to do were crushed by Coby and his amazing CoO.


if you have time, can you please write more about this?

i don't remember what the incident was, why law planned it and how coby figured it out. but i like coby so i'd like to know


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Also Amol, it’s impossible to wank Garp’s subordinate and the future strongest Marine. He’s not a scrub like Smoker is. All Coby has been doing since the timeksip is collect W’s and that’s never going to stop anytime soon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RayanOO (Apr 14, 2021)

If Luffy can beat Kaido after being stomped by Katakuri 3 weeks ago, Koby can beat Hancock in team with Marines and new weapons. Garp Jr can pull a win out of his ass.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

girafarig said:


> if you have time, can you please write more about this?
> 
> i don't remember what the incident was, why law planned it and how coby figured it out. but i like coby so i'd like to know



Here’s a picture showing the outcome of Coby vs Hancock.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Samehadaman (Apr 14, 2021)

girafarig said:


> if you have time, can you please write more about this?
> 
> i don't remember what the incident was, why law planned it and how coby figured it out. but i like coby so i'd like to know



We don't really know anything about it besides name of the incident, it took place during timeskip, that Law was involved, and Coby earned some rep for his actions there as a Marine.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Here’s a picture showing the outcome of Coby vs Hancock.


thank you but that's not what i asked for

@Samehadaman i see. i wish we knew the details. because if the plan was rubbish then coby didn't have to do anything for it to fall apart anyway


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

Never knew Koby had fans.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

girafarig said:


> thank you but that's not what i asked for



What you asked for made no sense so I assumed you were trolling

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 14, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Never knew Koby had fans.


@Beast 

i also like koby


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## Bernkastel (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Here’s a picture showing the outcome of Coby vs Hancock.


Truly A Optimistic

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kinjin (Apr 14, 2021)

It‘s likely that Law got most if not all those 100 pirate hearts from that incident which earned him the Shichibukai title because he tricked those pirates to come there, hence why he was called the mastermind, like Bullet did in the Stampede movie. 

Kyros simply noted that Coby protected civilians and in turn Coby got flattered and was thinking how „tough“ (as in strong) Kyros looks like.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

girafarig said:


> @Beast
> 
> i also like koby


I meant before I started posting on here (To be clear).


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Bernkastel said:


> Truly A Optimistic



Every single arc we have people underestimate the non-static characters (Luffy, Zoro, Coby, Law, Kidd, Killer ect) and those same people wank and overrate the static characters (Doflamingo, Katakuri, Kaido, Big Mom, Fujitora, Hancock ect).

You people never learn from your mistakes and it’s honestly embarrassing to watch this over and over again. You base your opinions on your silly tier lists and never fail to realize that Oda is going to have all the non-static characters massively increase in strength after every arc because the series is almost over.

It’s not that I’m optimistic. It’s that you guys can’t understand that your silly tier lists from the past aren’t relevant anymore.

There is no chance that Hancock is beating Coby. Not like Hancock has done anything to put her above Jinbei anyways.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

What do we even know of type Rocky port incident? Law is clearly the mastermind and Coby.. helped civilians? Is that it?

They can be giving him credit the sane way they were giving Smoker credit. We all know how much of a scrub he turned out to be.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> They can be giving him credit the sane way they were giving Smoker credit. We all know how much of a scrub he turned out to be.



Please don’t ever disrespect Coby like this again. Post timeskip Coby has been treated with a million times more respect than Post timeskip Smoker.


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Please don’t ever disrespect Coby like this again. Post timeskip Coby has been treated with a million times more respect than Post timeskip Smoker.


Not really tbh. All he has is praise and word of mouth.  Mostly what Hancock has outside of her preskip feats. But, at least she has some.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> Not really tbh. All he has is praise and word of mouth.  Mostly what Hancock has outside of her preskip feats. But, at least she has some.



What do you mean not really? Smoker has lost to Law, Vergo, and Doflamingo all in the same arc. Name 1 person that has defeated Coby in post time skip, there portrayal is not comparable in the slightest.

And Hancock’s pre-timeskip feats are overrated if we’re being honest. I knew she was all talk when she didn’t lift a finger at Aokiji almost killing her baby daddy. And I won’t even address a bloodlusted Hancock kicking pre-timeskip Smoker and literally did zero damage.


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> What do you mean not really? Smoker has lost to Law, Vergo, and Doflamingo all in the same arc. Name 1 person that has defeated Coby in post time skip, there portrayal is not comparable in the slightest.
> 
> And Hancock’s pre-timeskip feats are overrated if we’re being honest. I knew she was all talk when she didn’t lift a finger at Aokiji almost killing her baby daddy. And I won’t even address a bloodlusted Hancock kicking pre-timeskip Smoker and literally did zero damage.


Bruh we don’t even really know of anybody Coby fought so how can we know if he took L’s. Cmon bruh.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> Bruh we don’t even really know of anybody Coby fought so how can we know if he took L’s. Cmon bruh.



exactly so why compare him to that scrub smoker?


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> What do you mean not really? Smoker has lost to Law, Vergo, and Doflamingo all in the same arc. Name 1 person that has defeated Coby in post time skip, there portrayal is not comparable in the slightest.


?? Name one person that has fought Coby in Post TS 



A Optimistic said:


> And Hancock’s pre-timeskip feats are overrated if we’re being honest. I knew she was all talk when she didn’t lift a finger at Aokiji almost killing her baby daddy. And I won’t even address a bloodlusted Hancock kicking pre-timeskip Smoker and literally did zero damage.


She manhandled every single person who crossed her path lol, including Sentomaru

You shouldn't adress a plot hole yeah, a person who one shots pacifistas also one shots Smoker

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> exactly so why compare him to that scrub smoker?


Because Smoker is his superior officer and has been getting smoked.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> Because Smoker is his superior officer and has been getting smoked.



Coby gonna catch that vice admiral promotion after delivering Hancock to impel down, you’ll see fam

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> ?? Name one person that has fought Coby in Post TS
> 
> 
> She manhandled every single person who crossed her path lol, including Sentomaru
> ...



Destroying Pacifista’s is not impressive when you have an ability to turn imanimate objects to stone, the Pacifista don’t have haki to stop this ability, and the Pacisfista are not allowed to attack or make any effort to defend themselves. You’re basically trying to give credit to Hancock for being able to crush a piece of stone that isn’t allowed to defend themselves. East blue Luffy was destroying steel so forgive me for not being impressed that Hancock has the physical ability to destroy stone. 

Something isn’t a plot point just because you don’t like it. She had a clean hit on Smoker and did no damage and later on we saw that all she managed to accomplish is destroying his jutte. Sentomaru was not even a ranked Marine and defeating him isn’t relevant or impressive. She’s below Jinbei on the Shichibukai scale as far as I’m concerned. A very overrated character.


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> *when you have an ability to turn imanimate objects to stone, the Pacifista don’t have haki to stop this ability,*


It's good that you understand that. Shame you don't realize pre TS Smoker has no haki either so he's as helpless as a pacifista against it so him not being one shot is a plot hole

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> It's good that you understand that. Shame you don't realize pre TS Smoker has no haki either so he's as helpless as a pacifista against it so him not being one shot is a plot hole



Sounds like speculation on your part. Have we seen Hancock turn a logia into stone?


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Coby gonna catch that vice admiral promotion after delivering Hancock to impel down, you’ll see fam



A fellow Coby supporter. 

Welcome there's space for everyone.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kubish (Apr 14, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> She manhandled every single person who crossed her path lol, including Sentomaru


In which chapter(s) did Hancock fight Sentomaru?


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> A fellow Coby supporter.
> 
> Welcome there's space for everyone.



Coby is the GOAT!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Sounds like speculation on your part. Have we seen Hancock turn a logia into stone?


wut? Haki allows her to touch the logia's real body lol



Kubish said:


> In which chapter(s) did Hancock fight Sentomaru?


We don't see the fight, but we see Sentomaru with bruises and sweating swearing at her and saying something like "How many pacifistas have you destroyed already" while she is just sitting on her snake

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bernkastel (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Every single arc we have people *underestimate* the non-static characters (Luffy, *Zoro*, Coby, Law, Kidd, Killer ect) and those same people wank and overrate the static characters (Doflamingo, Katakuri, Kaido, Big Mom, Fujitora, Hancock ect).


You should be ashamed of even typing this...


A Optimistic said:


> You people never learn from your mistakes and it’s honestly embarrassing to watch this over and over again. You base your opinions on your silly tier lists and never fail to realize that Oda is going to have all the non-static characters massively increase in strength after every arc because the series is almost over.


I never use tier lists or shit like that and I actually agree with you on this.


A Optimistic said:


> *It’s not that I’m optimistic*. It’s that you guys can’t understand that your silly tier lists from the past aren’t relevant anymore.
> 
> There is no chance that Hancock is beating Coby. Not like Hancock has done anything to put her above Jinbei anyways.


Your name says otherwise


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## Lawliet (Apr 14, 2021)

Canute87 said:


> beat her with what?


With his dick


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## Adhominem (Apr 14, 2021)

Honestly with how much Oda is trying to push the ever rising power levels of the MCs while reasonably Hancock should decimate Coby, there's a pretty decent chance he does take her out


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Okay I was phone posting earlier so I couldn't properly explain my thoughts, but now I'll make one last post on my laptop explaining why it's obvious that Coby will beat Hancock.

Before we begin, we need to address the OL's bizarre habit of underestimating non-static characters and overrating static characters. Now what do I mean by static and non-static characters? When I say non-static I mean characters like the Rooftop 5, Coby and other characters who are not anywhere near their EoS strength and will continue to rapidly increase in strength after every arc. And by static characters I mean characters that have already reached their peak and won't be getting stronger like Doflamingo, Kaido, Katakuri, Hancock, ect.

How many times has the OL underestimated non-static characters and overestimated static characters and has been proven wrong? I've honestly lost count at this point.

"Rooftop Law is still weaker than Doflamingo"

"4/5 of the Rooftop 5 are weaker than Katakuri"

"The Rooftop 5 are going to get off-paneled and stand no chance against Kaido"

"4/5  of the Rooftop 5 members are weaker than a YC3"

"Wano Luffy would get destroyed by any Admiral"

"Kidd can't even beat Cracker"

"Luffy is not a top tier"

ect ect

There are so many examples of the OL constantly choosing to underestimate non-static characters and overrate static characters and the OL constantly gets proven wrong each and every week. We now have Law who went from being weaker than Doflamingo to being able to injure Kaido and react to Kaido and Big Mom's attacks, and keep fighting after taking hits from Big Mom. We have Kidd who has shown to take Big Mom's physical attacks better than Queen has. We have Luffy displaying the same haki as Roger and Primebeard. Every new Wano chapter has destroyed countless OL members awful tiers lists. And do you guys ever take a step back and think "hmm maybe I should stop underrating non-static characters growth and strength?". Clearly you guys don't as evidenced by this 8 page thread. Every single person defending Hancock in this thread is no different then the people who were defending Doflamingo and Katakuri after every Rooftop 5 chapter. In fact, I would argue that you guys are _worse _than the Doflamingo/Katakuri fans because they actually have the common courtesy to wank characters with post-timeskip feats that are actually impressive, meanwhile you Hancock defenders are wanking someone with poor pre-timeskip feats.

Now with that out of the way, let's debunk all the arguments that support Hancock:


*"Fujitora will be the one to defeat Hancock, not Coby"*

I see this argument posted often and I don't get why. A quick search of Fujitora's name in this thread shows it was posted by quite a few members.






Amazon Lily is in the Calm Belt. Fujitora is not in the Calm Belt. Pay very close attention to the sails on Momonga's ship and Fujitora's ship. Pay attention to the sea. Spot the difference? Good, then stop pretending that Fujitora got sent after Hancock. 











Akainu would never waste his time sending an Admiral after Hancock and every time you people say that, it shows you aren't paying attention to the manga and that you greatly underestimate the Admirals. The only current Shichibukai that will face an Admiral are Mihawk and Weevil. The SSG and the lower rank Marines are enough to deal with the rest. You people overrate Hancock's strength. Ironically Hancock overrates her own strength as well, which is why she was the only Shichibuikai that Oda choose to single out as being in trouble in his interview.



*"It would be shit writing if Oda had Coby defeat Hancock"*

How would it be shit writing lmao? I saw someone earlier in this thread saying this. Is Hancock a top tier or something? No she isn't, any Admiral would destroy her. In fact, if you even compare Jinbei's pre-timeskip feats to Hancock's feats (and yes I'm being kind by not including Jinbei's post timeskip feats), then Hancock is weaker than Jinbei. In fact, there isn't even any evidence that Hancock can defeat Momonga in a 1v1 if you think about it. Momonga countered her Mero Mero Beam quite easily and if Hancock wants to turn him into stone, she has to do so with her kicks. Any evidence that she can kick Momonga? No there isn't any evidence. 

So what's wrong with Coby defeating someone weaker than Jinbei? Especially when Coby has one of the best growth rates in the entire series. People talk about Luffy and Zoro's growth rate and while both are impressive, they both started chapter 1 as being stronger than everyone in East Blue with the exception of Smoker. Meanwhile Coby started the series weaker than Romance Dawn Nami, and in just a few months (Water 7), he's increased his fighting skills so much and he's already learned Soru. In 6 months (Marineford) he's unlocked CoO and so on and so on. Coby has one of the most freakish growth rates in the entire series so there is literally nothing wrong with current Coby defeating someone who's weaker than Jinbei.


*"Coby is similar to Smoker"*

No, Coby and Smoker have literally nothing in common. Smoker is a washed up scrub who lost to Law, Vergo, and Doflamingo in a single arc. Meanwhile post-timeskip Coby is hailed as a hero, has taken zero Ls during post-timeskip, is going to be the strongest Marine by EoS and have the best feats out of every Marine when he fights Pirate King Luffy. 







In conclusion, Hancock is extremely overrated and is weaker than Jinbei. There is also no evidence that Hancock is stronger than Momonga. Coby has some of the best potential and growth rate in the series. There is nothing wrong with Oda having Coby defeat and capture Hancock, and the OL needs to stop underrating non-static characters and wanking static characters. After Wano arc ends, Luffy is going to read the newspaper and see the headline _"Vice Admiral Coby, Hero of the Marines has defeated and captured Boa Hancock." _

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | GODA 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Fujitora is out on a war ship presumably near the Calm Belt beside a Sea King.



There is no evidence that Fujitora is anywhere near the Calm Belt lol. Scroll up and look at the images in my previous post. There is no wind in the Calm Belt and the water is still. There is clearly wind where Fujitora is judging by the waves and the fact that his sails are down.

Was Shanks near the Calm Belt when a Sea King bit his arm near Luffy's home village in East Blue? I didn't think so. Fujitora being sent after Hancock is nothing more than headcanon you Hancock fans came up with to downplay Coby and it's ridiculous that people still post this fanfiction in April 2021.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> There is no evidence that Fujitora is anywhere near the Calm Belt lol. Scroll up and look at the images in my previous post. There is no wind in the Calm Belt and the water is still. There is clearly wind where Fujitora is judging by the waves and the fact that his sails are down.


Was Momonga's ship along with a dozen others engaged in combat like Fujitora's?


A Optimistic said:


> Was Shanks near the Calm Belt when a Sea King bit his arm near Luffy's home village in East Blue? I didn't think so. Fujitora being sent after Hancock is nothing more than headcanon you Hancock fans came up with to downplay Coby and it's ridiculous that people still post this fanfiction in April 2021.


Was Shanks a Marine and trying to capture the Shichibukai?  I don't think so.

Naw, this is Head cannon:

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> No, Coby and Smoker have literally nothing in common. Smoker is a washed up scrub who lost to Law, Vergo, and Doflamingo in a single arc. Meanwhile post-timeskip Coby is hailed as a hero, has taken zero Ls during post-timeskip, is going to be the strongest Marine by EoS and have the best feats out of every Marine when he fights Pirate King Luffy.


You can post as big a post as you want, but the fact that you base it on head canon just makes it a waste of your time

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Was Momonga's ship along with a dozen others engaged in combat like Fujitora's?
> 
> Was Shanks a Marine and trying to capture the Shichibukai?  I don't think so.
> 
> Naw, this is Head cannon:



This is a weak reply, Sloan. You've posted better replies in this past. At this point if you're going to respond with edits then it's hard to take your position seriously.



Fujitora's forces being "engaged" have literally no correlation to the Calm Belt not having any wind. Let's just face the facts here, you thought that seeing a sea king automatically meant that Fujitora was in the Calm Belt. I'm telling you that there is no wind in the Calm Belt. Therefore Fujitora is not in the Calm Belt and that's fanfiction you made up because you're trying to hype up Hancock.

I don't even get what your "Shanks is a Marine" comment is supposed to mean. The Shanks example was to show that there are sea kings outside of the Calm Belt, clearly my point went over your head.

And I don't get what your edit is supposed to prove lol. Did I say Coby is sailing to Amazon Lilly alone? Did I say the SSG are not involved? No.

All I said was that your claim that Fujitora is sailing to Amazon Lily is nonsense that you made up and there's nothing to support it.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> You can post as big a post as you want, but the fact that you base it on head canon just makes it a waste of your time



What part of my post was headcanon? That Hancock has worse feats than Jinbei? That there's no proof that Hancock can even beat Momonga? That Fujitora was not sent after Hancock? Or when I stated Coby will be the strongest Marine EoS?

Coby not becoming the strongest Marine has the same chances as Luffy not being Pirate King EoS. Stating the obvious isn't head canon.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Strobacaxi (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> That there's no proof that Hancock can even beat Momonga? That Fujitora was not sent after Hancock? Or when I stated Coby will be the strongest Marine EoS?


Yes. 



A Optimistic said:


> Coby not becoming the strongest Marine has the same chances as Luffy not being Pirate King EoS. Stating the obvious isn't head canon.


Coby's goal is to become a Marine Admiral, Luffy's goal is to become PK. You don't have to be the strongest marine to be an admiral, you need to be the strongest pirate to become PK.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Yes.



Okay then, prove that Hancock can defeat Momonga and prove that Fujitora was sent after Hancock.



Strobacaxi said:


> Coby's goal is to become a Marine Admiral, Luffy's goal is to become PK. You don't have to be the strongest marine to be an admiral, you need to be the strongest pirate to become PK.




You're ignoring the panel where Luffy and Coby are going to fight after they reach their goal titles.


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> This is a weak reply, Sloan. You've posted better replies in this past. At this point if you're going to respond with edits then it's hard to take your position seriously.


You responded and quoted a sentence from a post that had like 10 paragraphs in it.

I've made my stance clear on this topic on several long ass posts already.  If you disagree than you disagree, we'll just have to wait and see.



A Optimistic said:


> my point went over your head.


Looks like mine went over yours.  

A Sea King could be in a lot of places, not just the Calm Belt near Amazon Lily, this is true.  Shanks example is irrelevant because the context of the situations make it so that Fujitora, a Marine on the job going to capture the Shichibukai, of which Hancock is one, more likely that he's near the Calm Belt than it being a mere coincidence like the Sea King that Shanks encountered.  


A Optimistic said:


> All I said was that your claim that Fujitora is sailing to Amazon Lily is nonsense that you made up and there's nothing to support it.


It is but a mere possibility, it's also possible Fujitora isn't with Koby near the Calm belt.  

The point is that Koby solo'ing Hancock 1vs1 is very unlikely given all the Marine forces+SSG present and that's a valid point even if Fujitora wasn't there.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Sloan said:


> You responded and quoted a sentence from a post that had like 10 paragraphs in it.



This is true. Tbh I just queried "Fujitora" in the search bar and it took me to that post. That being said I agree that the SSG are rolling deep with Coby and will play a major role, but no Admiral will be there so we're in general agreement.


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## Oda Report (Apr 14, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Wasn’t Luffy one shotted at the beginning of Wano by Kaido by himself?



Luffy has a history of getting beat and getting back up for a run back. Right?



itsxtray said:


> Lol so now that attack was weak huh?  ok bro.



It's weak.

It didn't even take out Luffys 1st mate.  



itsxtray said:


> All this shit is irrelevant because i wasn't talking about his tankiness. My problem is that he stalled that shit by himself and before it happened we had no reason to believe he could do it. Him not dying from it is a given this is one piece.



Zoro took Luffys pain/damage back in thriller, this isn't nothing surprising since all Zoro did was get stronger Throughout the entire show. Zoro has always had grand standing solo moments.

From fighting Mihawk, thriller bark, clashing with an admiral attacking a WG Dragon etc etc.



itsxtray said:


> Also, all of that shows Zoro's tankiness but all that shit pales in comparison to a combined yonko attack. And just because you can survive weaker shit pre-ts doesn't mean you should be able to survive 2 yonko attacks post ts.



Take that youtuber logic back to youtube. 
This isn't Dragon ball where power levels pretty much determine who can take what. 

We been dealing with yonkou for how many years now? You are overrating the yonkou.



itsxtray said:


> Bruh, go reread what i wrote. I brought up Luffy in regards to progression in comparison to Zoro not Coby. We've seen every step of Luffys growth post-ts but you refuse to explain that same growth for Zoro because it doesn't exist.



 Zoro growth in power been showcased in table spoons. It's obviously going to be different from Luffys showcase.

Zoro was trained by a pirate who is top 5 in the OP world easily, caked walked all his opponents without showcasing his full power (even lacking in proper weapon set in some cases) putting killer in a laughing body bag also bodied another supernova in Apoo. 

Taming Enma.

Until the rooftop.

The fact that Zoro has finally got a chance to showcase his full limits against a yonkou exposes just how potent Mihawk training is.



itsxtray said:


> You know nothing about Coby's progression. None of us do. Oda can make him as strong as he want's and justify it later. Just like Crocodile got a huge boost sitting on his ass in impel down. At least he has the explanation of Garp training.



Coby been with Garp how long and was reintroduce to get put on his back. 

Crocodile got a huge boost? When?  Thought he was always a silver medalist. 



itsxtray said:


> Im not saying it will but i wouldn't be surprised if it did.



Fair. 



itsxtray said:


> Depends on your definition of that i guess, cause to me he seriously jumped the shark in the Katakuri fight and has continued to jump it with everything regarding Kaido.



Kaidou is just over hyped and overrated by fans who waited so long.


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## Amol (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Okay I was phone posting earlier so I couldn't properly explain my thoughts, but now I'll make one last post on my laptop explaining why it's obvious that Coby will beat Hancock.
> 
> Before we begin, we need to address the OL's bizarre habit of underestimating non-static characters and overrating static characters. Now what do I mean by static and non-static characters? When I say non-static I mean characters like the Rooftop 5, Coby and other characters who are not anywhere near their EoS strength and will continue to rapidly increase in strength after every arc. And by static characters I mean characters that have already reached their peak and won't be getting stronger like Doflamingo, Kaido, Katakuri, Hancock, ect.
> 
> ...


Your entire problem is that you "assume" lot of things and then proceeds to consider essentially your headcanon as words from Oda.
You have entire storyline mapped out on what happened in Rocky Port Incident despite the fact we literally don't know what happened there other than the fact that incident made Law famous(which clearly indicates he didn't take L there). You despite having no data created an entire story that suits your bias.

Now you are assuming who are static characters and who are not. We don't know. *You* don't know.
How can you know that DD won't break out of prison in future and return as much stronger character?
Same thing with Hancock. You don't actually know whether she is a so called static character or not. That is just your assumption. You really are in no position to lecture others on tier lists when you yourself use them so much.

And bolded told me everything I needed to know. You are just extremely biased against Hancock to the point of not using any logic. All you care now is downplaying her no matter how nonsensically.
Momonga needed to stab himself to just to counter Hancock's fodder clearing move. That is literally her go to move like Pistol for Luffy. It tells us that he does not have haki strong enough to protect himself from her most basic attack.

What he is going to do in prolonged fight? Keep stabbing himself until he dies from bloodloss ?
It is not possible to show outright dominance than what Hancock has shown towards Momonga.

You are galaxy away from being fair on this topic.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Apr 14, 2021)

Spirit King said:


> That sounds like character assassination for Coby. His most defining character trait is trying to stop the WB war. His mentor Garp hates the celestial dragons. Him capturing Hancock and having her past be exposed sounds like you want him to be set up as villain for Luffy to rightly beat down and move on from when the most likely scenario for what your saying is him helping them to escape.


Not really. He doesn’t know that she was a slave of the Celestial Dragons. Hancock isn’t a good person by many metrics. She just likes Luffy. People forget that.


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

Amol said:


> *What he is going to do in prolonged fight? Keep stabbing himself until he dies from bloodloss ?*
> It is not possible to show outright dominance than what Hancock has shown towards Momonga.


I'm dead

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Amol said:


> Your entire problem is that you "assume" lot of things and then proceeds to consider essentially your headcanon as words from Oda.



Such as?




Amol said:


> You have entire storyline mapped out on what happened in Rocky Port Incident despite the fact we literally don't know what happened there other than the fact that incident made Law famous(which clearly indicates he didn't take L there). You despite having no data created an entire story that suits your bias.



We went over this. I didn't state that Coby defeated Law in a fight, I said that he hindered Law's plans. You don't get the title of hero for not playing a major role. I didn't create any storyline, you're just  not reading my posts properly.

And why would Law being famous mean anything? Everyone becomes famous when they attempt to perform a criminal act lmao and Law was already famous before that point.




Amol said:


> Now you are assuming who are static characters and who are not. We don't know. *You* don't know.
> How can you know that DD won't break out of prison in future and return as much stronger character?



Burden of proof is on you to show Doflamingo will leave jail and get stronger, that's speculation on your part. There is no speculation on Coby getting stronger all the time. That's the difference.




Amol said:


> Same thing with Hancock. You don't actually know whether she is a so called static character or not. That is just your assumption. You really are in no position to lecture others on tier lists when you yourself use them so much.



Burden of proof is on you to show Hancock got stronger, that's speculation on your part. There is no speculation on Coby getting stronger all the time. That's the difference.




Amol said:


> And bolded told me everything I needed to know. You are just extremely biased against Hancock to the point of not using any logic.



Nah, I like Hancock. I just don't base my opinions on how much I like or dislike a character. It's called being objective.




Amol said:


> All you care now is downplaying her no matter how nonsensically.
> Momonga needed to stab himself to just to counter Hancock's fodder clearing move. That is literally her go to move like Pistol for Luffy. It tells us that he does not have haki strong enough to protect himself from her most basic attack.



And? Mero Mero Beam is a hax move and Momonga took the appropriate steps to counter it easily.




Amol said:


> What he is going to do in prolonged fight? Keep stabbing himself until he dies from bloodloss ?



Why would Momonga need to continue stabbing himself? The pain from that one stab move prevents Hancock from ever using Mero Mero Beam ever again during the duration of the fight. I don't think you quite understood that scene if you think Momonga needs to somehow continue stabbing himself. Hancock made it clear that the pain from that one mere stab wound is enough to cancel out her Mero Mero Beam.



Amol said:


> It is not possible to show outright dominance than what Hancock has shown towards Momonga.



Hancock portraying superiority would be you know...her beam actually working on Momonga. It's not a good look if your most hax move is stopped that easily.




Amol said:


> You are galaxy away from being fair on this topic.



Says the guy who thinks Momonga needs to keep stabbing himself for some unknown reason in order to deal with Mero Mero Beam.


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## Adhominem (Apr 14, 2021)

I actually kind of agree now. Coby has to be on the level of an admiral next time he reunites with Luffy. His growth from post timeskip has an even bigger gap to close than Luffy's, he started as a Captain so he began as fucking hot potato garbage, and he's gotta be insane by that point

I think Cobys going to awaken bullshido powerup  CoC and its going to be a big enough power boost to level him up a bunch. Now that CoC has been reintroduced in the way it has its a reasonable way for Coby to become an absolute savage in a short space of time

I don't think Coby will beat Hancock, to me its simply very plausible

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Amol (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Such as?


I gave them below.


A Optimistic said:


> We went over this. I didn't state that Coby defeated Law in a fight, *I said that he hindered Law's plans*. You don't get the title of hero for not playing a major role. I didn't create any storyline, you're just  not reading my posts properly.


Definition of fanfiction.
You don't fucking know that. For all we know Law and Coby were on same team there(unintentionally). There were lots of other pirates in that incident.
See what I mean, you have tendency to write entire fanfiction on shit that we don't know.
Coby got hero title because he saved lot of civilians. We were literally told that by Kyros. Read again. Read actual manga instead of creating fanfiction on shit you don't know.


A Optimistic said:


> And why would Law being famous mean anything? Everyone becomes famous when they attempt to perform a criminal act lmao and Law was already famous before that point.


Because that incident made WG to consider Law as candidate for Warlord. If Coby had hindered his so called plan like your fanfiction says, he would have looked like a loser. Law clearly looked very good and dangerous in that incident which increased his reputation. This destroys your entire fanfiction.

And no just committing crime does make you famous and dreaded enough to be considered for warlord position. That is such  a nonsensical thing to say. Millions of pirates commits millions of criminal acts everyday . They don't get considered for Warlord position. You have to do something really awesome and powerful for that. Use some logic man.


A Optimistic said:


> Burden of proof is on you to show Doflamingo will leave jail and get stronger, that's speculation on your part. There is no speculation on Coby getting stronger all the time. That's the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think you understand how burden of proof works.
I am not making *any* claim. So I don't have to prove anything. My entire stance is we don't know. Only Oda knows. Hancock could be static character or she could not be. I don't think Oda even has something like this in his mind. This is just new criteria you created yourself to confirm your bias.

Only you seem to be super confident in your utterly baseless claim. So you have to prove it which you can't as it is nothing but baseless assumption from your part.
We do not know who is static character and who is not.  So either admit that you are not Oda and thus you don't know or prove it.


A Optimistic said:


> Nah, I like Hancock. I just don't base my opinions on how much I like or dislike a character. *It's called being objective.*


Good joke. You are a blind hater at this point.


A Optimistic said:


> And? Mero Mero Beam is a hax move and Momonga took the *appropriate* steps to counter it easily.


I don't think you understand what appropriate word means.
Hancock is not the first character with hax. There is this thing called Haki that many people uses to protect themselves from hax. Please read One Piece manga to know more about Haki.

You also don't seem to understand  what a basic fodder cleaning move means. Mero Mero beam is most basic move of Hancock. I can't take you seriously if you think Hancock used her strongest shit at her very introduction and against some marine fodders. This is shonen you know.

So Momonga can't protect himself from even a basic attack then he is doomed from the beginning.


A Optimistic said:


> Why would Momonga need to continue stabbing himself? The pain from that one stab move prevents Hancock from ever using Mero Mero Beam ever again during the duration of the fight. I don't think you quite understood that scene if you think Momonga needs to somehow continue stabbing himself. Hancock made it clear that the pain from that one mere stab wound is enough to cancel out her Mero Mero Beam.


Good thing she has much stronger attacks then.
Given his haki is so pathetic her stronger attacks would destroy him.


A Optimistic said:


> Hancock portraying superiority would be you know...her beam actually working on Momonga. It's not a good look if* your most hax move* is stopped that easily.


Hancock portraying superiority means she having Momonga on his knees with her most basic move. You keep talking as if Momonga tanked that attack. He was literally on the knees bleeding from her most basic shit. Common sense 101.

Bolded is another assumption from you. You really like to write fanfiction don't you? Become a fanfiction writer. We use One Piece canon here.

Let me put it this way. Luffy was immune to Mero Mero beam. Then Hancock used an attack that immediately on shotted him. See she has better attacks.
Nobody uses their """most hax move'''''' as very first attack.
Law is a hax character and he does not use Gamma Knife as first move against every random marine fodder.

Are you new to shonen?


A Optimistic said:


> Says the guy who thinks Momonga needs to keep stabbing himself for some unknown reason in order to deal with Mero Mero Beam.


Well joke is really on you considering you somehow think needing to stab himself for fodder clearing move is an appropriate move. Clearly he does not have normal counter to her attacks.


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## itsxtray (Apr 14, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Luffy has a history of getting beat and getting back up for a run back. Right?


Yeah but theres a difference between getting beat and getting 1 shot. Also, Luffy was out for some time until they hauled his ass to jail. Much different than the other times he was beat 


Oda Report said:


> It's weak.
> 
> It didn't even take out Luffys 1st mate.


Thats because Oda is terrible with powers not because it's weak.


Oda Report said:


> Zoro took Luffys pain/damage back in thriller, this isn't nothing surprising since all Zoro did was get stronger Throughout the entire show. Zoro has always had grand standing solo moments.


Yeah and he couldn't move after that and could barely speak. He could still fight after this.


Oda Report said:


> From fighting Mihawk, thriller bark, clashing with an admiral attacking a WG Dragon etc etc.


Mostly pre-skip so irrelevant you think pre-skip Zoro could survive that shit?? How does him killing that Dragon lead you to believe he could stall 2 yonko attacks??


Oda Report said:


> Take that youtuber logic back to youtube.
> This isn't Dragon ball where power levels pretty much determine who can take what.


"And just because you can survive weaker shit pre-ts doesn't mean you should be able to survive 2 yonko attacks post ts."

How is that dbz logic lol?? This is a fact in any fighting story. Just because you can survive a punch doesn't mean you can survive a gunshot lol. Survivng weaker shit doesn't mean you can survive stronger shit this is common sense.


Oda Report said:


> We been dealing with yonkou for how many years now? You are overrating the yonkou.


Oda is the one who had base Kaido oneshot gear 4th Luffy. Thats where i start with all my assumptions. You can't ignore that that happened


Oda Report said:


> Zoro growth in power been showcased in table spoons. It's obviously going to be different from Luffys showcase.
> 
> Zoro was trained by a pirate who is top 5 in the OP world easily, caked walked all his opponents without showcasing his full power (even lacking in proper weapon set in some cases) putting killer in a laughing body bag also bodied another supernova in Apoo.
> 
> ...


None of this makes him blocking 2 yonko attacks believeable. Even in other threads people are saying before he did it no one thought he could. Which means yhe set-up for it was inadequate which is my point.


Oda Report said:


> Coby been with Garp how long and was reintroduce to get put on his back.


Yeah but he was reintroduced again post timeskip after having unlocked haki and been trained in it for 2 years with a teacher just as good as Luffy's. This was a bad faith argument you know it cause were talking about post skip, post haki Coby


Oda Report said:


> Crocodile got a huge boost? When?  Thought he was always a silver medalist.


Getting beat by pre-gears Luffy to doing the shit he did at marineford is a giant boost especially since we saw how strong Luffy got from Alabasta to Marineford.


Oda Report said:


> Kaidou is just over hyped and overrated by fans who waited so long.


Thats got nothing to do with Katakuri. And even if it's true the same problems still persist.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

Law is also known to usually not involve civilians so Coby saving them doesn’t hinder any of his plans to be honest.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Amol said:


> Definition of fanfiction.
> You don't fucking know that. For all we know Law and Coby were on same team there(unintentionally).



This makes no sense lmao. Law is a mastermind of a criminal event but somehow they are on the same team?  Stop posting dumb theories.




Amol said:


> There were lots of other pirates in that incident.



Where was this stated?



Amol said:


> See what I mean, you have tendency to write entire fanfiction on shit that we don't know.
> Coby got hero title because he saved lot of civilians.



Saving a lot of lives clearly implies someone was attempting to cause harm to those lives or at the very least hold them hostage, that means Coby thwarted Law's plans. No speculation there whatsoever.




Amol said:


> We were literally told that by Kyros. Read again. Read actual manga instead of creating fanfiction on shit you don't know.
> 
> Because that incident made WG to consider Law as candidate for Warlord.



How are you going to tell me to read the manga and then make something up in your very next sentence? It was never stated that the Rocky Port incident was the reason Law became a Shichibukai, you literally just made this up. Aka it's fanfiction.




Amol said:


> If Coby had hindered his so called plan like your fanfiction says, he would have looked like a loser. Law clearly looked very good and dangerous in that incident which increased his reputation. This destroys your entire fanfiction.



There is nothing in the manga that indicates that Law looked very good and dangerous lmao. All we know is that Law came up with the plan involving Rocky Port, that's all we know about Law's part. Panel where it indicates Law looked cool and dangerous?




Amol said:


> And no just committing crime does make you famous and dreaded enough to be considered for warlord position. That is such  a nonsensical thing to say.



Where was it stated that the Rocky Port incident was the reason Law was considered for the warlord position? You accuse me of fanfiction while you're literally making stuff up. Very hypocritical of you.




Amol said:


> Millions of pirates commits millions of criminal acts everyday . They don't get considered for Warlord position. You have to do something really awesome and powerful for that. Use some logic man.



How are you going to tell me to use logic when you're the one who keeps stating that the Rocky Port incident is how Law got his title? Law got his title due to sending 100 hearts to the World Government. Nowhere in the manga is that stated to be the Rocky Port incident. You're literally making up fanfiction right now and what you're saying makes no sense. How can Coby be a hero for saving lot's of lives at the same event where Law sends 100 hearts to the Government? Why don't you take your own advice and use some logic and realize the Rocky Port incident and Law's Shichibukai promotion are two very different events? 

Unless you got a panel clearly stating Law was promoted because of the Rocky Port? Which you don't, because that's fanfiction you just made up.






Amol said:


> I don't think you understand how burden of proof works.
> I am not making *any* claim. So I don't have to prove anything.



You made multiple claims about Law being promoted due to the Rocky Port incident so yes you got to prove that. 




Amol said:


> My entire stance is we don't know. Only Oda knows. Hancock could be static character or she could not be.



That's not how this works, we don't assume a character magically got stronger unless we're shown otherwise. For now, Hancock has worse feats than pre-timeskip Jinbei. There's no reason to assume she magically got stronger, why would she? Anything else is speculation on your part.




Amol said:


> I don't think Oda even has something like this in his mind. This is just new criteria you created yourself to confirm your bias.



Who is stronger between current Law vs Doflamingo? If you say Law, then you indirectly just agreed with me. If you say Doflamingo, then you're wrong.



Amol said:


> Only you seem to be super confident in your utterly baseless claim. So you have to prove it which you can't as it is nothing but baseless assumption from your part.
> We do not know who is static character and who is not.  So either admit that you are not Oda and thus you don't know or prove it.



Who wins between Law and Doflamingo? Who wins between Zoro and Doflamingo? Who wins between Luffy and Katakuri? If you saw those three battledome threads right now, tell me who you think would win.





Amol said:


> Good joke. You are a blind hater at this point.



Me disagreeing with your weak arguments doesn't make me a hater unfortunately. Just means your arguments need more work. 




Amol said:


> I don't think you understand what appropriate word means.
> Hancock is not the first character with hax. There is this thing called Haki that many people uses to protect themselves from hax. Please read One Piece manga to know more about Haki.




And there's something called reaction timing, something you conveniently ignored. If Hancock attacked first, and Momonga reacted second and was faster at stopping Hancock's attack, then he's shown superior reaction feats compared to Hancock.





Amol said:


> You also don't seem to understand  what a basic fodder cleaning move means. Mero Mero beam is most basic move of Hancock. I can't take you seriously if you think Hancock used her strongest shit at her very introduction and against some marine fodders. This is shonen you know.



You don't seem to understand that Momonga has shown superior reaction timing to Hancock and that Momonga was not allowed to even attack Hancock back.




Amol said:


> So Momonga can't protect himself from even a basic attack then he is doomed from the beginning.



This is where you start posting your fanfiction evidence. Momonga has shown superior reaction timing to Hancock. Momonga was also not allowed to attack Hancock back, something you would have known if you actually read the manga.

Provide evidence that Hancock can even do anything to defend herself from Momonga's sword attacks. You are aware in a real battledome fight where Momonga is actually allowed to attack back, he wouldn't just stand there and allow Hancock to make the first move right? You have zero evidence that indicates that Hancock can do anything to prevent Momonga from slicing her, meanwhile Momonga has at least shown to have a faster reaction timing to her Mero Mero Beam.




Amol said:


> Good thing she has much stronger attacks then.
> Given his haki is so pathetic her stronger attacks would destroy him.



Good thing for Momonga that he has superior reaction timing feats compared to Hancock. Good thing for Momonga that he's actually allowed to attack her in our hypothetical match up. You can't even prove that Hancock can survive a single sword slash from Momonga and you're claiming that Hancock would destroy him, and then you have the audacity to claim that I'm the one posting fanfiction? You're being very hypocritical in this debate.




Amol said:


> Hancock portraying superiority means she having Momonga on his knees with her most basic move. You keep talking as if Momonga tanked that attack. He was literally on the knees bleeding from her most basic shit. Common sense 101.



A tiny stab wound doesn't mean anything to One Piece characters at Momonga's level, and Momonga showed superior reaction timing and Momonga was not allowed to attack back. That is not the definition of portrayal superiority. If Oda wanted to portray Hancock as superior, he would have not had Momonga react to her attack, he would have just simply turned to stone. Momonga easily stopped her attack and there's no evidence that Hancock can even survive any of his attacks.

You want to know what superior portrayal is? It's what Doflamingo did to two Vice Admirals when he took control of them and made them choke each other out and they were powerless to do anything about it. You'll never see Hancock doing anything like that because she's much weaker than Doflamingo and even weaker than Jinbei, she's a scrub.




Amol said:


> Bolded is another assumption from you. You really like to write fanfiction don't you? Become a fanfiction writer. We use One Piece canon here.



How is that an assumption? Mero Mero Beam is her most hax move. You clearly don't know the difference between hax and strongest. And if anyone is writing fanfiction it's you:

You've posted fanfiction about the Rocky Port incident being the reason Law is a Shichibukai, you've made claims that Hancock can destroy Momonga, you made a claim that Momonga would have to continue stabbing himself to avoid the effects of Mero Mero Beam even though Hancock's words contradicted you. So yeah clearly you're the one posting fanfiction, and you lack the self awareness to even notice just how hypocritical your entire post was.




Amol said:


> Let me put it this way. Luffy was immune to Mero Mero beam. Then Hancock used an attack that immediately on shotted him. See she has better attacks.



Having a more effective attack doesn't mean it's more hax. Learn the difference between those two words. Mero Mero beam requires you to not be thinking sexual thoughts of Hancock, while Pistol Kiss is straight forward attack that can be dodged. That means Mero Mero Beam is the more attack hax even if it didn't work on Luffy while Pistol Kiss did. Mero Mero Beam is a lot more difficult for most people to deal with compared to Pistol Kiss. You're also ignoring that Luffy was in mid-air when he got hit and there's no evidence that Hancock can even hit him with it when Luffy is firmly planted on the ground.



Amol said:


> Nobody uses their """most hax move'''''' as very first attack.



Prove it.



Amol said:


> Law is a hax character and he does not use Gamma Knife as first move against every random marine fodder.



Momonga is not Marine fodder and Gamma Knife isn't anywhere close to Law's most hax move.




Amol said:


> Are you new to shonen?
> 
> Well joke is really on you considering you somehow think needing to stab himself for fodder clearing move is an appropriate move. Clearly he does not have normal counter to her attacks.



And here we have Amol failing to realize that Momomga can't even attack back. In a real battledome fight, Momonga would be attacking Hancock. And you have no evidence that she can do anything about it when he's the one with the superior reaction timing feats. You don't have a single good argument that Hancock can beat Momonga. You have no arguments that Hancock can beat Jinbei. You have no arguments that Hancock got stronger over the timeskip. And you have no arguments that Hancock will even defeat Coby, especially after I've already proven that Fujitora is not on the Calm Melt. Overall, you have nothing and you lost this debate handily. Accept your L just like Hancock will accept her L when Coby drags her Impel Down.


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

But you should know people wanting titles don’t mean Jack shit. Even Midd wants to be Pirate King.


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## Delta Shell (Apr 14, 2021)

Coby now has conquerers.

I.e. he is handful level.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Beyonce (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> What high ranking Marine did Hancock sabotage stuff in-front of at Marineford? Sentomaru? Well sorry to disappoint you but he wasn’t even a Marine at the time so not sure how you consider him a “high ranking Marine”.


Ah yes,  who controls pacifistas, one of the WG's strongest weapons at the time and preventing them from capturing Luffy, which directly led to the rescue of Ace means nothing since sentomaru isn't considered a "marine". Do you hear yourself?  It's not like Sentomaru is the nephew of an admiral, unless you expect me to believe he just didn't report this to Kizaru or literally anyone that a warlord destroyed multiple ridiculously expensive weaponry for whatever reason.


A Optimistic said:


> Or were you referring to pre-timeskip Smoker as the “high ranking marine” that she sabotaged at Marineford?


Smoker is an even clearer example. He threatens the removal of her title not , but . pre-skip Smoker being only 3 ranks below an admiral at the time. So yes, he is a high ranking marine. At least high ranking enough to see to it that his complaints/threats against Hancock are heard.


A Optimistic said:


> What kind of logic is this? Jinbei got thrown in Impel Down for directly rejecting Sengoku’s orders straight to hos face. If Hancock had the courage to oppose an Admiral to their face the same way Jinbei did, then Hancock would also be in Impel Down. We know that Hancock doesn’t have the courage to step up to an Admiral though because all she did was stand there and watch Aokiji almost kill Luffy and Marco had to go rescue him.


Wrong. You see  of her charging towards Aokiji when he stabbed Luffy. Lmao at Hancock being scared of Admirals or the WG at all despite her not giving a measly shit about her title of warlord being stripped and marines being at the foot of her island.


A Optimistic said:


> Hancock is overrated and there’s no indication that she’s stronger than Coby or Jinbei.


WG removed Jinbei's title as warlord for opposing the war. WG didn't do shit to Hancock for blatantly sabotaging the war on more than one occasion in front of quite a few people. They didn't even do shit to her when she disrespected the hell out of Momonga and later allowed Luffy to escape to New World at Sabody. WG likely didn't do shit about it during any of these occasions since Hancock is too strong to lose/give a shit about Refer to:

A. Sengoku's statement of being thankful she arrived at the war
B. Being one of the three people to leave the war completely unscathed alongside Doffy and Mihawk (although you could argue it's because she didn't fight anybody notable, you don't need to be spoonfed what Oda was trying to do for Hancock portrayal wise)

To argue that she's weaker than Jinbei is one thing. Jinbei has much more feats than she does. But Koby?  what do you have to go off from besides your Rocky Port fanfiction?


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

God damn I reply to one Hancock fan and another one comes outta nowhere.

Where you at fam? @TheWiggian

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> God damn I reply to one Hancock fan and another one comes outta nowhere.
> 
> Where you at fam? @TheWiggian


You asking for help? It’s no fun when the Zoro brigade ain’t around to save you huh?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> You asking for help? It’s no fun when the Zoro brigade ain’t around to save you huh?



Are you just here to sit on the sidelines and make silly comments?


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## Gin (Apr 14, 2021)

beat off to her maybe

Reactions: Funny 4


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Beyonce said:


> Ah yes,  who controls pacifistas, one of the WG's strongest weapons at the time and preventing them from capturing Luffy, which directly led to the rescue of Ace means nothing since sentomaru isn't considered a "marine". Do you hear yourself?



Sentomaru is not allowed to attack Hancock back. I'm supposed to be impressed that Hancock can barely damage someone a character who is not allowed to touch her? Do you know how embarrassing it is to barely do any damage to someone who's not even allowed to touch you?



And yes, Sentomaru having no Marine rank at the time and not having an impressive Marine rank post time skip makes it clear he's not that impressive. You Hancock fans are desperate af for your queen to have an impressive feat.





Beyonce said:


> It's not like Sentomaru is the nephew of an admiral, unless you expect me to believe he just didn't report this to Kizaru for whatever reason.




What does Sentomaru being Kizaru's nephew have to do with anything? Report what? What are you talking about?




Beyonce said:


> Smoker is an even clearer example. He threatens the removal of her title not , but . pre-skip Smoker being only 3 ranks below an admiral at the time. So yes, he is a high ranking marine. At least high ranking enough to see to it that his complaints/threats against Hancock are heard.



Lmao what? Only an Admiral or above has the authority to remove a Shichibukai. Smoke was not allowed to lay a hand on Hancock, which is why she never did. And Hancock did zero damage to Smoker. Do you know how pathetic it is to not be able to injure someone who can't attack back?

And no threats or complaints on Hancock were heard, that's why she still has her title post time skip.




I don't even get what you're arguing about tbh. So far, both Sentomaru and Smoker were not allowed to touch Hancock and Hancock's feats against both were not impressive.



Beyonce said:


> Wrong. You see  of her charging towards Aokiji when he stabbed Luffy.



You're right, I double checked. So I can add Hancock being much slower than Marco to my feats list alongside Momonga having better reaction timing feats than her. Thanks for the update.






Beyonce said:


> Lmao at Hancock being scared of Admirals or the WG at all despite her not giving a measly shit about her title of warlord being stripped and marines being at the foot of her island.



That's true, you're right. Hancock is not afraid.

But Hancock is also the only Shichibukai that Oda stated was in trouble, so maybe Hancock is stupid, irresponsible, and reckless for not being afraid? 




Beyonce said:


> WG removed Jinbei's title as warlord for opposing the war. WG didn't do shit to Hancock for blatantly sabotaging the war on more than one occasion in front of quite a few people. They didn't even do shit to her when she disrespected the hell out of Momonga and later allowed Luffy to escape to New World at Sabody. WG likely didn't do shit about it during any of these occasions since Hancock is too strong to lose/give a shit about Refer to:



Oh boy this quote is a mess. Jinbei's title got removed because Jinbei was literally was opposing Sengoku to his face at Marine Headquarters. If Hancock did the same, she would also be sent to Impel Down, unless you somehow think Hancock is strong enough to prevent Sengoku throwing her ass behind a jailcell?

Hancock has managed to keep her title because she has never done anything against the rules infront of an Admiral, since only an Admiral or above can remove a title. Every example you have of Hancock "breaking the rules" is done against someone below the rank of Admiral, and they don't have the authority to dispose of her title. How you're trying to spin this as "omg the Marines wouldnt take away her title because she is too strong to lose " is a dishonest lie on your part because we know that's not true.

We know that's not true because the former boomer Empress of Amazon Lily was literally terrified at the thought of Hancock losing her title. Why would she be worried if Hancock was too strong to lose her title? Another reason you're wrong is that we saw an Admiral not hesitate to remove Law's title when he was breaking the rules, and Law had better feats than Hancock at the time. Another reason you're wrong is that we saw that an Admiral was willing to remove Doflamingo's title if Caesar was not his subordinate, and I know you can at least agree that Doflamingo is stronger than Hancock. So yeah, this idea that Hancock was kicked out because she's too strong to lose just isn't true.

No Admiral is going to hesitate to kick out any Shichibukai if they catch evidence of them breaking the rules of their contract with the World Government. It's just that fortunately for Hancock, no Admiral has caught her breaking the rules yet.




Beyonce said:


> A. Sengoku's statement of being thankful she arrived at the war



Yes, Hancock is strong. Not denying that.



Beyonce said:


> B. Being one of the three people to leave the war completely unscathed alongside Doffy and Mihawk (although you could argue it's because she didn't fight anybody notable, you don't need to be spoonfed what Oda was trying to do for Hancock portrayal wise)



The only portrayal that Oda showed me is that during the war, Hancock picked a fight with two Marines who were not allowed to attack her back, and she did zero damage to Smoker and barely any damage to Sentomaru. Oh and she also destroyed some Pacisfista that weren't allowed to attack her back.

Please don't compare her to Doflamingo or Mihawk, because they at least had the courage to attack people that will try to kill them. Of course Hancock won't be injured if she's purposely picking fights with people who aren't allowed to hurt her. I admire how calculatuing your queen truly is.





Beyonce said:


> C. Similar to Hancock spitting in VA Momonga's face, when DD spat in VA Smoker's face the two received zero punishment for it.



Momonga was not allowed to attack her or Hancock would have died right then and there.



Beyonce said:


> To argue that she's weaker than Jinbei is one thing. Jinbei has much more feats than she does. But Koby?  what do you have to go off from besides your Rocky Port fanfiction?



Pre-timeskip Jinbei doesn't actually have more feats than Hancock. They have similar amount of feats, it's just his are much better.




Okay so you don't think Coby is going to defeat Hancock, that's fine. Who do you think will be the one to defeat her? And please don't say no one, Oda's interview indicated that she's in trouble. And please don't say Fujitora either, I proved that Fujitora isn't in the Calm Belt last page.

So your options are only the SSG or Coby or a combination of the two. Feel free to pick whichever L is more appealing for you.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 14, 2021)

Koby being admiral level in the epilogue would probably the most underwhelming and useless piece of writing I've seen in a long time.

Imagine setting up a character from chapter 1 to 1600 or whatever, and you get to enjoy the payoff of the build up for a few chapters after the story is already done.

Nope, Koby will be at his goal/ close to reach his goal around the time of the final war, especially if Im is as broken as people say they are.

Tldr if he jobs to Hancock, Oda is a hack.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

@Beyonce btw great username, im a beyonce fan myself

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## TheWiggian (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> God damn I reply to one Hancock fan and another one comes outta nowhere.
> 
> Where you at fam? @TheWiggian



Hancock is trash by design and even worse in personality. Her crew consists of fodders far below Doffy family fodder.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Firo (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Are you just here to sit on the sidelines and make silly comments?


Yes  
Y’all do it all the time so why can’t I?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Firo said:


> Yes
> Y’all do it all the time so why can’t I?



Fair enough. But I'ma have to log off for the day. I'm exhausted. The Hancock army wore me out.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Beyonce (Apr 14, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Sentomaru is not allowed to attack Hancock back. I'm supposed to be impressed that Hancock can barely damage someone a character who is not allowed to touch her? Do you know how embarrassing it is to barely do any damage to someone who's not even allowed to touch you?


This has nothing to do with what I am arguing here for, read on for further clarification.


A Optimistic said:


> And yes, Sentomaru having no Marine rank at the time and not having an impressive Marine rank post time skip makes it clear he's not that impressive. You Hancock fans are desperate af for your queen to have an impressive feat.
> 
> What does Sentomaru being Kizaru's nephew have to do with anything? Report what? What are you talking about?


I'm not mentioning Hancock vs Sentomaru from a feats perspective. I am saying that it's impressive that she is able to destroy multiple pacifistas that each cost as much as a  and get in sentomaru's way without receiving the slightest bit of repercussion from the WG afterwards. Sentomaru being Kizaru's nephew is important here, because Sentomaru isn't some random loser in the WG. He's in charge of the pacifista unit and is directly related to an admiral. He has much more sway and influence than a vast majority of the marines. If Hancock was able to fuck up multiple warship priced items from the marines/WG without facing any sorts of punishment AND allow Luffy to escape twice (luffy being the second biggest offender in MF after whitebeard) it's a clear indicator that she's too strong for the WG to just simply give up. At the very least stronger than Koby who again, you only have the Rocky Port fanfiction to prove his worth.

I also find it funny you're hounding me for Sentomaru not having a marine rank, but you're completely ignoring the fact TS Koby has the same rank as Nezumi and Morgan lol


A Optimistic said:


> Lmao what? Only an Admiral or above has the authority to remove a Shichibukai.


Yes, but should someone report to higher authority about the warlord, their title will be removed. See Tashigi apprehending Crocodilea after receiving the greenlight from HQ. Or Smoker investigating crocodile at rainbase.


A Optimistic said:


> And no threats or complaints on Hancock were heard, that's why she still has her title post time skip.


And that is precisely what I am arguing for. Why was she allowed to do all this without facing repercussions? While the navy surely was hurting post-war and needed all the manpower they could get, they clearly still drew the line somewhere. She allowed Luffy to escape like 3 times. One of them was post-war as well and let him get into new world (but not like those fodder marines were going to stop him anyway )


A Optimistic said:


> I don't even get what you're arguing about tbh. So far, both Sentomaru and Smoker were not allowed to touch Hancock and Hancock's feats against both were not impressive.


You're misunderstanding, but I explained why I even mentioned those two above. They're not impressive feats, but the implication of those feats are what matters afterwards. Think if a warlord slapped a Celestial dragon, but received no punishment for it. The feat of slapping a CD isn't what's impressive, them having no repercussions for it is. You'd have to ask yourself why? Do they have special connections to the WG/have a secret over them? Are they just so damn powerful that the WG has to just look over it? In Hancock's case it's the latter rather than the former.


A Optimistic said:


> You're right, I double checked. So I can add Hancock being much slower than Marco to my feats list alongside Momonga having better reaction timing feats than her. Thanks for the update.


The only speed feat Momonga has over Hancock is fastest to get fodderized in the face of the enemy.


A Optimistic said:


> That's true, you're right. Hancock is not afraid.
> 
> But Hancock is also the only Shichibukai that Oda stated was in trouble, so maybe Hancock is stupid, irresponsible, and reckless for not being afraid?


I have a good feeling Oda didn't put Hancock as the final panel of such an immensely huge plot-driving chapter proclaiming how she's a warlord because she's strong, just to have her eat shit later (nevertheless to a captain ranked marine) but to each their own.


A Optimistic said:


> Oh boy this quote is a mess. Jinbei's title got removed because Jinbei was literally was opposing Sengoku to his face at Marine Headquarters. If Hancock did the same, she would also be sent to Impel Down, unless you somehow think Hancock is strong enough to prevent Sengoku throwing her ass behind a jailcell?


Personally, I think Hancock is stronger than that shameless fodder , buuuut I do see the discrepancy in how I worded that. I do think if Hancock didn't go through with what Momonga said, she'd be sent to jail, but not from Momonga.


A Optimistic said:


> Hancock has managed to keep her title because she has never done anything against the rules infront of an Admiral, since only an Admiral or above can remove a title. Every example you have of Hancock "breaking the rules" is done against someone below the rank of Admiral, and they don't have the authority to dispose of her title. How you're trying to spin this as "omg the Marines wouldnt take away her title because she is too strong to lose " is a dishonest lie on your part because we know that's not true.


Whether it was in front of an admiral or not is irrelevant. The chain of command still exists and is exactly how  I mean ffs you have both Smoker and Momonga threatening her title as warlord because they know they can simply go to someone of higher ranking. On top of that, you also have  With there being *multiple* eyewitness proof, one being Sentomaru and his multiple destroyed pacifista. There's nothing that would suggest the WG not knowing about what she did.


A Optimistic said:


> We know that's not true because the former boomer Empress of Amazon Lily was literally terrified at the thought of Hancock losing her title. Why would she be worried if Hancock was too strong to lose her title?


Elder Nyon is not the WG/Marines, this is a moot point. She was clearly in fear of what would happen to the people of the island and emphasized that  Hancock were to lose her title xyz will happen, not a definitive you *will* lose your title and xyz will happen.


A Optimistic said:


> Another reason you're wrong is that we saw an Admiral not hesitate to remove Law's title when he was breaking the rules, and Law had better feats than Hancock at the time. Another reason you're wrong is that we saw that an Admiral was willing to remove Doflamingo's title if Caesar was not his subordinate, and I know you can at least agree that Doflamingo is stronger than Hancock. So yeah, this idea that Hancock was kicked out because she's too strong to lose just isn't true.


Same admiral with the clearest agenda for the removal of the warlords. Fujitora literally hated everything about the warlords, it's not surprising at all that he was quick to issue a removal for them despite even Akainu who even himself abhors the warlords was against their disbandment.


A Optimistic said:


> No Admiral is going to hesitate to kick out any Shichibukai if they catch evidence of them breaking the rules of their contract with the World Government. It's just that fortunately for Hancock, no Admiral has caught her breaking the rules yet.


And again, you do not need an admiral specifically catching you breaking the rules to do anything about it. Smoker on his own initiative went to investigate Crocodile because he suspected he was formulating something in addition to the other things I mentioned.


A Optimistic said:


> Yes, Hancock is strong. Not denying that.


But not stronger than Koby? Or Momonga? .


A Optimistic said:


> The only portrayal that Oda showed me is that during the war, Hancock picked a fight with two Marines who were not allowed to attack her back, and she did zero damage to Smoker and barely any damage to Sentomaru. Oh and she also destroyed some Pacisfista that weren't allowed to attack her back.
> 
> Please don't compare her to Doflamingo or Mihawk, because they at least had the courage to attack people that will try to kill them. Of course Hancock won't be injured if she's purposely picking fights with people who aren't allowed to hurt her. I admire how calculatuing your queen truly is.


This gave me a good laugh I will admit. 

But you are reiterating what I said and are stating the obvious. The portrayal isn't that Hancock is Smoker level (you'd have to be reading an entirely different manga to come to that conclusion). He specifically went out of his way to put Hancock on the same pedestal as DD and Mihawk, and does so again later in the TS with Aokiji drawing comparisons between DD and Hancock. Supplement that with Sengoku being relieved that she would be present in the war, and you clearly have someone who *at the bare minimum is stronger than Koby, who again you have yet to provide anything noteworthy besides the Rocky port fanfiction*


A Optimistic said:


> Momonga was not allowed to attack her or Hancock would have died right then and there.


You've mentioned this multiple times how xyz character cannot attack a warlord. I don't know where on earth you drew that conclusion from. You literally have   and . Explain to me concisely why VA Smoker attacked Law and DD for violating them, but VA Momonga bitched out and let Hancock fuck his crew up and didn't do a god damn thing besides stab his hand? Explain.


A Optimistic said:


> Pre-timeskip Jinbei doesn't actually have more feats than Hancock. They have similar amount of feats, it's just his are much better.


This is true. Hancock has abysmal feats. She makes up for it with portrayal and hype in which you actively ignore but seemingly emphasize for Koby.


A Optimistic said:


> Okay so you don't think Coby is going to defeat Hancock, that's fine. Who do you think will be the one to defeat her? And please don't say no one, Oda's interview indicated that she's in trouble. And please don't say Fujitora either, I proved that Fujitora isn't in the Calm Belt last page.
> 
> So your options are only the SSG or Coby or a combination of the two. Feel free to pick whichever L is more appealing for you.


I pick Greenbull. But either or, I don't see Hancock taking an L and that's just Oda's way of creating suspense. At the end of the day, it's not going to be Koby and if it is, it's shit story writing. x

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Sloan (Apr 14, 2021)

Going to be funny when we get a call back like we did to the Revolutionary commanders Vs Green Bull+Fujitora and we get no conclusion to this since something like that does no favors for giving us information on who used what attack on who or the difficulty of the fight or who else participated or how exactly Fujitora got his head roughed up with bandages and bla bla bla.

Off Panel Piece will take the W

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## A Optimistic (Apr 14, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Going to be funny when we get a call back like we did to the Revolutionary commanders Vs Green Bull+Fujitora and we get no conclusion to this since something like that does no favors for giving us information on who used what attack on who or the difficulty of the fight or who else participated or how exactly Fujitora got his head roughed up with bandages and bla bla bla.
> 
> Off Panel Piece will take the L



We gonna have a 10 page thread aruging over one off-panel sentence, can’t wait.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bernkastel (Apr 15, 2021)

Glad to see the Hancock army is as strong as ever...wear them down boys till they're dried out...the godess will prevail

Reactions: Funny 4 | Optimistic 2


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## Beast (Apr 15, 2021)

Sloan said:


> Never knew Koby had fans.


Considering the posts you made in this thread, I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t know or read OP.


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## Beast (Apr 15, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Okay I was phone posting earlier so I couldn't properly explain my thoughts, but now I'll make one last post on my laptop explaining why it's obvious that Coby will beat Hancock.
> 
> Before we begin, we need to address the OL's bizarre habit of underestimating non-static characters and overrating static characters. Now what do I mean by static and non-static characters? When I say non-static I mean characters like the Rooftop 5, Coby and other characters who are not anywhere near their EoS strength and will continue to rapidly increase in strength after every arc. And by static characters I mean characters that have already reached their peak and won't be getting stronger like Doflamingo, Kaido, Katakuri, Hancock, ect.
> 
> ...


At the end of Wano, we will be frenemies.



A Optimistic said:


> Are you just here to sit on the sidelines and make silly comments?


What you expect from a law fan?

Slimy fuckers.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## yaboilat (Aug 30, 2022)

What do you guys think will be the result of this?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

Koby.


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## Conquistador (Aug 30, 2022)

Next we see Amazon Lily, Boa will have a new garden gnome on her front porch

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 3 | Lewd 1


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## Chaos Hokage (Aug 30, 2022)

I don't think, I guess their battle end in a draw with Boa getting capture or she escape with Koby.


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## FitzChivalry (Aug 30, 2022)

If it were a straight up 1 on 1 in the fight, Hancock whips his ass, mid difficulty at the very worst. I don't think Koby's there yet, but he'll surpass her at some point. If what we're really asking  is what's the result of Koby and the Marines' pursuit of her at Amazon Lily, that's a much more interesting question. She was entirely unconcerned when she heard she had title and privileges revoked, but  I thought Oda vaguely hinted in an interview somewhere that something _was _up with her. I think finding some common ground in that they'll both mutually gush over Luffy is a distinct possibility.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

FitzChivalry said:


> If it were a straight up 1 on 1 in the fight, Hancock whips his ass, mid difficulty at the very worst. I don't think Koby's there yet, but he'll surpass her at some point. If what we're really asking  is what's the result of Koby and the Marines' pursuit of her at Amazon Lily, that's a much more interesting question. She was entirely unconcerned when she heard she had title and privileges revoked, but  I thought Oda vaguely hinted in an interview somewhere that something _was _up with her. I think finding some common ground in that they'll both mutually gush over Luffy is a distinct possibility.


Final saga, koby is up there stop crying about it the story ending in 3 years so he's getting powercreeped close to luffy, he does not care if she has connections to luffy, he was willing to fight luffy during marineford.


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## FitzChivalry (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Final saga, koby is up there stop crying about it the story ending in 3 years so he's getting powercreeped close to luffy, he does not care if she has connections to luffy, he was willing to fight luffy during marineford.


Who's crying, weirdo? I simply gave an opinion. I literally said in the same post you quoted he'd eventually surpass her but he just wasn't there yet, for one. And given how I think Hancock's an extremely powerful character who's generally been criminally underrated by the OP fandom (her bounty will fall somewhere between Croc and Mihawk; that's what I think of her), me saying Koby will eventually overtake her is not only an acknowledgement of his EoS potential, but a high compliment. So you're rebutting me by actually...agreeing me. Well done, hahaha.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

FitzChivalry said:


> Who's crying, weirdo? I simply gave an opinion. I literally said in the same post you quoted he'd eventually surpass her but he just wasn't there yet, for one. And given how I think Hancock's an extremely powerful character who's generally been criminally underrated by the OP fandom (her bounty will fall somewhere between Croc and Mihawk; that's what I think of her), me saying Koby will eventually overtake her is not only an acknowledgement of his EoS potential, but a high compliment. So you're rebutting me by actually...agreeing me. Well done, hahaha.


Sadly you only have a couple more chapters before it happens, yes  I agree she's stronger then croc and give mihawk a tough fight, but koby still slapping her.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

T


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Final saga, koby is up there stop crying about it the story ending in 3 years so he's getting powercreeped close to luffy, he does not care if she has connections to luffy, he was willing to fight luffy during marineford.


The story isn't ending in 3 years. Its impossible.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Sadly you only have a couple more chapters before it happens, yes  I agree she's stronger then croc and give mihawk a tough fight, but koby still slapping her.


Koby aint slapping nobody hes a overrated fodder. Boa been fighting for all her life while bro fought for 2 years. She has year of be and has a broken fruit. You can even say that boa love effect>eida love effect


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## Oda Report (Aug 30, 2022)

If he does capture Boa SSG will be the reason.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> The story isn't ending in 3 years. Its impossible.


Oda said so.


Unresponsive said:


> Koby aint slapping nobody hes a overrated fodder. Boa been fighting for all her life while bro fought for 2 years. She has year of be and has a broken fruit. You can even say that boa love effect>eida love effect


Overreated? All he has been is hyped up, who cares arlong been fighting most of his life too. He has more narrative he's winning


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda said so.


He said this back "Maybe his three years will turn into five, but the end already seems near and unavoidable. In 2002, Oda talked about 20 years (until 2022). In 2014 he estimated that One Piece would last 10 more years (until 2024). And *in 2020 he predicted about 4 or 5 years to go (again, 2024 or 2025)." *He took 3 years on wano. And took 7 years for the last saga and you actually think he can pull off, all the poneglyh information, every ancient weapon used, all one piece gods known and shown, advanced versions of haki, final war, bb fight, shanks fight, and buggy interaction, destruction of the red line, who is vegapunk, d information, lunarians, how did celestial dragons come to be, devil fruits and haki origination and more in just 3 years  


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Overreated? All he has been is hyped up, who cares arlong been fighting most of his life too. He has more narrative he's winning


Hes hyped up by the community thats literally being overrated. Arlong did but he doesn't have comparable strength. Koby isn't warlord level


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## Iriague (Aug 30, 2022)

Boa was low diffing Kuma Cyborgs pre time skip. Koby got one shotted by Luffy in G2, no way he beats Boa in a 1v1 with her having homecourt advantage.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

Iriague said:


> Boa was low diffing Kuma Cyborgs pre time skip. Koby got one shotted by Luffy in G2, no way he beats Boa in a 1v1 with her having homecourt advantage.


Koby got stronger which is why oda said he has masterd rokushiki and abnormal coo.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 30, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Koby got stronger which is why oda said he has masterd rokushiki and abnormal coo.


He was never stated to have abnormal coo and that doesn't determine if your stronger. That girl from skypiea had it too. And it wasn't stated he mastered rokushiki or heavily implied it was just shown he knew how to use soru and geppo. Luffy can use soru and yet that doesn't mean he mastered it now does it. If koby did, he woulve used shigan or tempest kick.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 30, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> He was never stated to have abnormal coo and that doesn't determine if your stronger. That girl from skypiea had it too. And it wasn't stated he mastered rokushiki or heavily implied it was just shown he knew how to use soru and geppo. Luffy can use soru and yet that doesn't mean he mastered it now does it. If koby did, he woulve used shigan or tempest kick.


Oda confirmed him to have abnormal coo which means his observation isn't normal, and master rokushiki no one in the series has master rokushiki as far im aware.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

FitzChivalry said:


> Who's crying, weirdo? I simply gave an opinion. I literally said in the same post you quoted he'd eventually surpass her but he just wasn't there yet, for one. And given how I think Hancock's an extremely powerful character who's generally been criminally underrated by the OP fandom (her bounty will fall somewhere between Croc and Mihawk; that's what I think of her), me saying Koby will eventually overtake her is not only an acknowledgement of his EoS potential, but a high compliment. So you're rebutting me by actually...agreeing me. Well done, hahaha.


Crocodile's bounty is insane. Why do you think Hancock will have a 2 billion+ bounty?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Crocodile's bounty is insane. Why do you think Hancock will have a 2 billion+ bounty?


She's stronger but cross guild bounty wasn't just strength it played some factor's also, so strength wise she should be higher, but we'll see


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> She's stronger but cross guild bounty wasn't just strength it played some factor's also, so strength wise she should be higher, but we'll see


I don't think she'll be higher than Crocodile. Her strongest subordinates were beaten by Pre-TS Luffy. We generally don't see that kind of massive gap. I'd be surprised if she was stronger than Doflamingo tbh.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don't think she'll be higher than Crocodile. Her strongest subordinates were beaten by Pre-TS Luffy. We generally don't see that kind of massive gap. I'd be surprised if she was stronger than Doflamingo tbh.


She's superior to doffy who is stronger then croc, cg bounty might be inflated but croc is still viewed as a subordinate she isn't


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> She's superior to doffy who is stronger then croc, cg bounty might be inflated but croc is still viewed as a subordinate she isn't


I just disagree.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I just disagree.


Alr I guess you're going by aokiji viz mistranslation dialgoue.

But seeing how she had intrest in fighting with aokij whereas doffy got one shot casually....


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## Tenma (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> and master rokushiki no one in the series has master rokushiki as far im aware.



...every single member of cp9?


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Alr I guess you're going by aokiji viz mistranslation dialgoue.
> 
> But seeing how she had intrest in fighting with aokij whereas doffy got one shot casually....


Doflamingo broke out of her ice. I don't think she has the hype, feats or portrayal to put her over Doflamingo. Of the original 7, Doflamingo seemed like the strongest after Mihawk.


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## Mob (Aug 31, 2022)

I see 3 scenarios, Koby captured her, Koby captured her and let her go out of pity or she fled, in all 3 cases her empire fell

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Tenma said:


> ...every single member of cp9?


They have rokushiki not masterd rokushiki


Lee-Sensei said:


> Doflamingo broke out of her ice. I don't think she has the hype, feats or portrayal to put her over Doflamingo. Of the original 7, Doflamingo seemed like the strongest after Mihawk.


Nah doffy def didn't, boa was getting hyped by sengoku, and was casually toying with a VA, which at the time was huge.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> They have rokushiki not masterd rokushiki
> 
> Nah doffy def didn't, boa was getting hyped by sengoku, and was casually toying with a VA, which at the time was huge.


Doffy absolutely broke out of Aokiji's ice. He also stopped Jozu in his tracks and stood on his back casually. He was toying with Vice Admirals in the Jaya Arc and toyed with Commanders during the war.


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## Tenma (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> They have rokushiki not masterd rokushiki



mastering rokushiki probably just means learning and gaining expertise at all 6 forms (as opposed to nero or most other marines)

you are lookkng too much into it


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Tenma said:


> mastering rokushiki probably just means learning and gaining expertise at all 6 forms (as opposed to nero or most other marines)
> 
> you are lookkng too much into it


It depends on how far he's mastered it. I do think people that expect Koby to show up and be Pre-TS Luffy level are preparing themselves for disappointment though.


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## Nox (Aug 31, 2022)

M3 fresh into TS manhandled Pacifistas, without the luxury of a stand-down due to Warlord association. Its expected that Hancock wins. Nevertheless, between his Admiral ambition, Garp tutelage, induction into SWORD and "Hero Of" status, it shouldn't be one shot. Tobbiroppo possess Arms/Orbs, contested & withstood G4, RS and Yamato. Did it matter to their Mid/Weak trio opponents? *In an ideal scenario:* Fujitora leads the envoy against Hancock and Koby handles both Sandersonia/Marigold. Rayleigh intervenes to rescue Hancock. Duval and Rosy Life Riders (who owe Shakky a favor for nursing them to health) followed him as reinforcements for Amazon Lily. (Gathering of the Luffy fanclub). Koby comparable to Page-One would be neat. I'd welcome rank promotion, advanced Haki and heightened Rokushiki showcase. Koby's CoA and speed/Soru are constantly highlighted & he's shown unique Rankyaku variants.  Whatever the case, I don't want to see a Koby fodderized. It happens and I'm out.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Nox said:


> M3 fresh into TS manhandled Pacifistas, without the luxury of a stand-down due to Warlord association. Its expected that Hancock wins. Nevertheless, between his Admiral ambition, Garp tutelage, induction into SWORD and "Hero Of" status, it shouldn't be one shot. Tobbiroppo possess Arms/Orbs, contested & withstood G4, RS and Yamato. Did it matter to their Mid/Weak trio opponents? *In an ideal scenario:* Fujitora leads the envoy against Hancock and Koby handles both Sandersonia/Marigold. Rayleigh intervenes to rescue Hancock. Duval and Rosy Life Riders (who owe Shakky a favor for nursing them to health) followed him as reinforcements for Amazon Lily. (Gathering of the Luffy fanclub). Koby comparable to Page-One would be neat. I'd welcome rank promotion, advanced Haki and heightened Rokushiki showcase. Koby's CoA and speed/Soru are constantly highlighted & he's shown unique Rankyaku variants.  Whatever the case, I don't want to see a Koby fodderized. It happens and I'm out.


Boa's sisters were defeated b Pre-TS Luffy in a 2v1.


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## Perrin (Aug 31, 2022)

Natsu Dragoneel origin story.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Luffyfan38 (Aug 31, 2022)

Oda’s on a role of pissing fans off, I predict Hancock to be captured


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## Vengarl (Aug 31, 2022)

If Coby is not only able to defeat Hancock just because he's the Marine Luffy but is also the reason she's sent back to the CD as a slave then I'll hate him forever.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Vengarl said:


> If Coby is not only able to defeat Hancock just because he's the Marine Luffy but is also the reason she's sent back to the CD as a slave then I'll hate him forever.


Did you also hate Law for beating Big Mom, even though he was mid diffed by Doflamingo and got a power buff out of nowhere to stay relevant?

Also, Hancock doesn't deserve to be a slave to the CD of course, but she does deserve to be in prison. She's a terrible person. She just likes Luffy.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda confirmed him to have abnormal coo which means his observation isn't normal, and master rokushiki no one in the series has master rokushiki as far im aware.


Did a translation and it says abnormal devolpment meaning the way he got it was abnormal which is true.

コビ
大徳
コピー
けんぶんしゃ こうちょう つか ランドで海軍の不正を見抜く。 見聞色”を使い、ハンドアイ く成長!頂上戦争で開花した、 コビーは曹長から大佐へと著し かいくん ふせい みぬ せいちょう ちょうしょうせんそう かいか 正蕊 たいさ
厚手のバンダメ
・コピー 大佐 ・ジャージは 前と同じ
ON かいぐん 胸もとに輝くバッ チは、海軍として優 された功績を収めた。
六式 マスター 見聞色の 気が 異常に発達
正義
昔から愛用して
いるメガネが、現
でもコピーのト
レードマークだ。

the romanji
kobi
daitoku
kopī
kenbunsha kō chōtsu ka rando de kaigun no fusei o minuku . kenbunshoku ” o tsukai , ku seichō ! chōjō sensō de kaika shita , kobī wa sōchō kara taisa e to arawashi ka iku n fuseiminu seichō chōshō sen sō kai ka sei shibeta isa
atsude no bandame
kopī taisa jāji wa mae to onaji
kai gun munemoto ni kagayaku batu chi wa , kaigun toshite yū sareta kōseki o osameta .
roku shiki masutā kenbunshoku no ki ga ijō ni hattatsu
masayoshi
mukashi kara aiyō shite
iru megane ga , gen
demo kopī no to
da .


and the english translation is
Kobt
Copy. Using "Observation Colors", hand-eye growth! Blooming in the Paramount War, Coby rose from sergeant-major to colonel. />・Copy Colonel ・Jersey is the same as before.
Master of Rokushiki/ six forms, Master of Observation, Abnormal development
The glasses that I've been wearing for a long time are still in a copy box
It's a trademark.


The way he got his coo was abnormal not he has abnormal coo.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Unresponsive (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda confirmed him to have abnormal coo which means his observation isn't normal, and master rokushiki no one in the series has master rokushiki as far im aware.


Cp9 and cp0 agents.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Cp9 and cp0 agents.


They have rokushiki not master rokushiki just like how one can have a fruit and master it.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> They have rokushiki not master rokushiki just like how one can have a fruit and master it.


Thats not how it works, they did master rokushiki. Mastering a devil fruit isn't the same as mastering a fighting style. In order to master rokushiki you need to know how to do all the techniques. Which they can.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Thats not how it works, they did master rokushiki. Mastering a devil fruit isn't the same as mastering a fighting style. In order to master rokushiki you need to know how to do all the techniques. Which they can.


So according to the logic every swordsmen  mastered swordsmenship.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> So according to the logic every swordsmen  mastered swordsmenship.


Thats not how it works lol. You can master swordsmanship thats not possible since theres a infinite array of it. A rokushiki masters all techniques by obtaining them. Perfecting the techniques doesn't mean you mastered it otherwise luffy would've been a master rokushiki used. Same for sanji


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> Thats not how it works lol. You can master swordsmanship thats not possible since theres a infinite array of it. A rokushiki masters all techniques by obtaining them. Perfecting the techniques doesn't mean you mastered it otherwise luffy would've been a master rokushiki used. Same for sanji


As per lucchi he created a new rokushiki move, that the other cp9 members couldn't

I need manga evidence where it says they master rokushiki, mastering rokushiki is reserved for admiral's.


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## Unresponsive (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> As per lucchi he created a new rokushiki move, that the other cp9 members couldn't
> 
> I need manga evidence where it says they master rokushiki, mastering rokushiki is reserved for admiral's.


 The strength of one who has mastered it is equal to 100 men.


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## Cursemark (Aug 31, 2022)

People giving Koby so much clout is mind blowing to me like he isn’t just a captain. He is also nothing more than one person in an entire fleet that was likely accompanied with Vice Admirsls so idk why ppl insist that he’s 1v1ing her


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Cursemark said:


> People giving Koby so much clout is mind blowing to me like he isn’t just a captain. He is also nothing more than one person in an entire fleet that was likely accompanied with Vice Admirsls so idk why ppl insist that he’s 1v1ing her


This is called cope. Mega cope.


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## savior2005 (Aug 31, 2022)

They ended up getting married


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Unresponsive said:


> The strength of one who has mastered it is equal to 100 men.


How can they master it, when aokiji showed a better soru feat then all of them?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 31, 2022)

Koby isn't even going to fight Boa, they both care about luffy a lot and Boa helped luffy.
Koby is at best going to help her escape   

Right now Coby is at Tashigi's rank instead of being a vice admiral, c'mon, atleast use some sense


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Koby isn't even going to fight Boa, they both care about luffy a lot and Boa helped luffy.
> Koby is at best going to help her escape
> 
> Right now Coby is at Tashigi's rank instead of being a vice admiral, c'mon, atleast use some sense



At age 18 koby is already captain rank

Akainu, Kizaru,Aokiji were just enlisting in marines in their 20's


Koby was ready to defeat and  prevent luffy from freeing ace.

Rank doesn't mean anything unless you're telling me maynard>koby, or VA admirals= Maynard also since both shared the same rank.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Koby isn't even going to fight Boa, they both care about luffy a lot and Boa helped luffy.
> Koby is at best going to help her escape
> 
> Right now Coby is at Tashigi's rank instead of being a vice admiral, c'mon, atleast use some sense


Yes. And Luffy had a bounty of 500 million when he beat Katakuri. Use some common sense. Koby is clearly not at the level of the Average Captain. Not just based on hype and portrayal, but based on feats. Which Captain could recreate his torpedo feat? Scoping out a torpedo in the New World from a ship so far away that it wasn't visible with his abnormally advanced observation haki, diving into those rough waters, swimming fast enough to outpace it after it had already be been shot, being strong enough to forcibly redirect it and durable enough to tank an explosion that dwarfed a ship. This was all done casually in the New World.

Pre-TS, the tired Straw Hats were attacked a by 100 or 200 Captains and Commanders and survived. If you think Koby is at the level of Pre-TS Hina or T-Bone, you're preparing yourself for disappointment.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yes. And Luffy had a bounty of 500 million when he beat Katakuri. Use some common sense. Koby is clearly not at the level of the Average Captain. Not just based on hype and portrayal, but based on feats. Which Captain could recreate his torpedo feat? Scoping out a torpedo in the New World from a ship so far away that it wasn't visible, diving into those rough waters, swimming fast enough to outpace it after it had already be been shot, being strong enough to forcibly redirect it and durable enough to tank an explosion that dwarfed a ship.
> 
> Pre-TS, the tired Straw Hats were attacked a by 100 or 200 Captains and Commanders and survived. If you think Koby is at the level of Pre-TS Hina or T-Bone, you're preparing yourself for disappointment.



I'm not putting Koby at the level of preskip captains. Maybe preskip luffy. Which, while impressive, is still not enough to warrant a Boa vs Koby discussion. That's why I also mentioned tashigi who has a few forms of haki and rokushiki who is probably the stronger captain atm besides coby


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I'm not putting Koby at the level of preskip captains. Maybe preskip luffy. Which, while impressive, is still not enough to warrant a Boa vs Koby discussion. That's why I also mentioned tashigi who has a few forms of haki and rokushiki


koby at the level of preskip luffy are you high?!?

If you have abnormal coo and masterd rokushiki that's stronger then luffy. As expected from a smoker fan, know their character is trash for the rest of the series and tries to downplay koby.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I'm not putting Koby at the level of preskip captains. Maybe preskip luffy. Which, while impressive, is still not enough to warrant a Boa vs Koby discussion. That's why I also mentioned tashigi who has a few forms of haki and rokushiki who is probably the stronger captain atm besides coby


Maybe you're right and I'm wrong, but I doubt it. He's probably much stronger than Pre-Skip Luffy was. Koby doesn't have a few forms of Rokushiki. He's mastered it. He also got haki before her and trained with it under Garp.

Three things need to be considered when evaluating where Koby places strength wise.

1) Oda will make characters as strong as they need to be for the sake of the story. Law was mid diffed by Doflamingo and came back for Wano strong enough to fight Big Mom and Kaido. He didn't have a training arc. He didn't undergo a haki blooms situation. He was just buffed, because the story needed him to be that strong.

2) Hancock's strength has been overrated IMO. This isn't always the case, but we can get a general idea of how strong a Pirate is by looking at their strongest subordinate. Compare her to Doflamingo. Hancocks strongest subordinates are Sandersonia and Marigold. They were defeated by Pre-Timeskip Luffy in a 2v1. Doflamingo's strongest subordinate was Vergo. He fractured Post TS Sanji's leg with a kick. Hancock is probably YC4 at best. I'd put her somewhere above Vergo and below Doffy.

3) If we look at sports, there's a reason that at the higher levels... athletes get multiple coaches and trainers. They help them achieve the best results. Koby was trained from the ground up by Garp. Garp got to mold him from the start. Realistically, he's going to see better results than people that worked on their own.

Koby beating Hancock in a haki blooms situation or with the SSG isn't really that unrealistic.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

How many MHQ captains have their own ship?


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Koby beating Hancock in a haki blooms situation or with the SSG isn't really that unrealistic.


For koby to hakibloom from hanccok means she has to be minium yc1.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> How many MHQ captains have their own ship?


A lot.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> A lot.


In the manga, has it been shown? Koby is on his own fleet so he's bound to capture hancock who's been hyped up as yc1 miniumin.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Maybe you're right and I'm wrong, but I doubt it. He's probably much stronger than Pre-Skip Luffy was. Koby doesn't have a few forms of Rokushiki. He's mastered it. He also got haki before her and trained with it under Garp.



Him mastering it, as in able to use all 6 forms instead of a few like Nero is why I'm putting him at preskip Luffy level (which lucci was, even having mastered 6 forms to the extent he had Rokugan)
So far the haki focused on with him is his CoO. I'm sure he has solid CoA as well. 

As far as the subordinate example goes, they're mainly a victim of a lack of fleshing out or given importance. Its like Law, who far outstrips bepo


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> In the manga, has it been shown? Koby is on his own fleet so he's bound to capture hancock who's been hyped up as yc1 miniumin.



Captain is an important Rank. The first captain we meet in one piece is Morgans who had a whole Marine Base to his name. Hina, Smoker etc all had their personalized ships. Even Nezumi that bumfuck a ship for himself though it wasn't personalized i think

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Him mastering it, as in able to use all 6 forms instead of a few like Nero is why I'm putting him at preskip Luffy level (which lucci was, even having mastered 6 forms to the extent he had Rokugan)
> So far the haki focused on with him is his CoO. I'm sure he has solid CoA as well.
> 
> As far as the subordinate example goes, they're mainly a victim of a lack of fleshing out or given importance. Its like Law, who far outstrips bepo


Fine. We'll just have to wait and see, but there are far more ridiculous jumps.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Hancocks strongest subordinates are Sandersonia and Marigold. They were defeated by Pre-Timeskip Luffy in a 2v1. Doflamingo's strongest subordinate was Vergo. He fractured Post TS Sanji's leg with a kick. Hancock is probably YC4 at best. I'd put her somewhere above Vergo and below Doffy.


 Apparently  amazon lily was supposed to be introduced in the story later.
​


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## Nox (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Boa's sisters were defeated b Pre-TS Luffy in a 2v1.



Koby was one shot by pre TS Luffy.

Sandersonia and Marigold are respectively famed for their Arms and Obs. Their power forced Luffy to activate his G2 and contested. After assuming Empress and her first campaign as Captain: Hancock gained 80m and Warlord. Her sisters received 40m. DonQuixote Pirates: attacked Celestials, regularly fought Marines and received Warlord nomination a full year after Kuja Pirates. Yet, those two were considered higher threats than Gladius who could tussle with Grand Fleet characters. Considering post TS inflation and Wano power creep, there enough justification for that fight.  Those two are Oven/Daifuku to Hancock's Katakuri. MF Smoker matched G2 but Hancock manhandled him and he commented on Kuja Haki. Kuzan/Sengoku acknowledged her power. To compete with YC: Luffy gained G4, Zoro had Enma and Sanji had RS/Exoskeleton. Haki put them over the hurdle. If Koby is that guy, I don't see the issue dispatching those two enroute to Hancock.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Captain is an important Rank. The first captain we meet in one piece is Morgans who had a whole Marine Base to his name. Hina, Smoker etc all had their personalized ships. Even Nezumi that bumfuck a ship for himself though it wasn't personalized i think


Morgan wasn't a MHQ Smoker hina had their own ship, wow.

Anyways having not normal observation and master rokushiki, and portrayl of film red he's comfy yc1.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Nox said:


> Koby was one shot by pre TS Luffy.


Yes. And? Hancock isn't Luffy and we have no reason to believe she's even close.



Nox said:


> Sandersonia and Marigold are respectively famed for their Arms and Obs. Their power forced Luffy to activate his G2 and contested. After assuming Empress and her first campaign as Captain: Hancock gained 80m and Warlord. Her sisters received 40m. DonQuixote Pirates: attacked Celestials, regularly fought Marines and received Warlord nomination a full year after Kuja Pirates. Yet, those two were considered higher threats than Gladius who could tussle with Grand Fleet characters. Considering post TS inflation and Wano power creep, there enough justification for that fight.  Those two are Oven/Daifuku to Hancock's Katakuri. MF Smoker matched G2 but Hancock manhandled him and he commented on Kuja Haki. Kuzan/Sengoku acknowledged her power. To compete with YC: Luffy gained G4, Zoro had Enma and Sanji had RS/Exoskeleton.


Sandersonia and Marigold have nowhere near the same narrative significance or long term potential as Koby. Expecting them to grow at the same rate as Koby is wishing on a star.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Fine. We'll just have to wait and see, but there are far more ridiculous jumps.



I guess anythings possible in 2 years 
It does pale in comparison to Law and Co's jumps atleast

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I guess anythings possible in 2 years
> It does pale in comparison to Law and Co's jumps atleast


I expect most of the Straw Hats to see massive jumps in the Final War too. Half of them don't even have Haki yet.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

I don't get why people bring up Coby's rank.

Coby is not anywhere close to his prime and haki blooms in fights, he can easily get stronger in the middle of the fight. Coby can easily start the fight much weaker than Hancock and end up stronger than her before the fight ends. Hasn't Wano and WCI made that clear?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> How many MHQ captains have their own ship?



Being a naval _captain_ means being in charge of a ship, yeah

Commodores command several ships, and rear admirals+ command fleets and armadas of various sizes

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Tenma said:


> Being a naval _captain_ means being in charge of a ship, yeah
> 
> Commodores command several ships, and rear admirals+ command fleets and armadas of various sizes


Thank's not they can stop bringing up the excuse of koby being on an VA ship.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

I'd also like to point out that we're in the final saga and Coby still isn't near his dream of becoming an Admiral. The only way he can accomplish this dream now is if Oda gives him a massive power up.

And there really isn't any better time than now to give him one. He has a powerful opponent to capture.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Why are people under the impression that Koby is the one leading 10+ warships to capture Hancock? This has always baffled me. Did people forget that Fujitora is in the Calm Belt too or something??


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Why are people under the impression that Koby is the one leading 10+ warships to capture Hancock? This has always baffled me. Did people forget that Fujitora is in the Calm Belt too or something??


I'm pretty sure optimistic made a post a while back with some pretty good evidence of fuji not being in the calm belt, also koby has his own fleet.

Don't see the problem with him being stronger then hancock when we have luffy beating kaido.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Tenma said:


> Being a naval _captain_ means being in charge of a ship, yeah
> 
> Commodores command several ships, and rear admirals+ command fleets and armadas of various sizes


Hina was in command of multiple ships at Alabasta.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Why are people under the impression that Koby is the one leading 10+ warships to capture Hancock? This has always baffled me. Did people forget that Fujitora is in the Calm Belt too or something??


Hina commanded 8 ships at Alabasta as a Captain. We saw Koby with 6 ships. More over, if someone else was in command... the writing was awkwardly phrased. It made it sound like he was going to do it. This just sounds like more copium tbh. She's taking an L.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Why are people under the impression that Koby is the one leading 10+ warships to capture Hancock? This has always baffled me. Did people forget that Fujitora is in the Calm Belt too or something??



Fujitota is not in the Calm Belt.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

@A Optimistic Would it be possible to lock this thread whenever we get info.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> @A Optimistic Would it be possible to lock this thread whenever we get info.



only the guy who made the thread can decide that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NotTommy (Aug 31, 2022)

Coby's got this. New gen hype>Warlord hype is my belief and we'll see soon enough.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> I'm pretty sure optimistic made a post a while back with some pretty good evidence of fuji not being in the calm belt, *also koby has his own fleet.*
> 
> Don't see the problem with him being stronger then hancock when we have luffy beating kaido.


How do we know that's *his* fleet? He's hiding from his own no-named henchmen in broom closets to speak to Drake if that's the case. If he's leading the charge like many of you seem to think, why not just order some privacy while he makes a call?



A Optimistic said:


> Fujitota is not in the Calm Belt.


How do we know that? There's literally a Sea King in the background when he's talking on the Den Den Mushi. Sea Kings aren't exclusive to the Calm Belt, but it is their nesting grounds and theres an argument to be made that that's the implication.


Lee-Sensei said:


> Hina commanded 8 ships at Alabasta as a Captain. We saw Koby with 6 ships. More over, if someone else was in command... the writing was awkwardly phrased. It made it sound like he was going to do it. This just sounds like more copium tbh. She's taking an L.


This "copium" nonsense is thrown around way too much. I don't hate Koby or Hancock. Could care less whether or not he captures her or if she "takes the L" either. Unlike a majority of OL posters, I do not read the story from a power level or favoritism perspective. I look at the story from a "does this make sense?" perspective regardless of the characters involved in whatever is happening. And I haven't seen anything indicating that Koby was *leading* the fleet.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> How do we know that? There's literally a Sea King in the background when he's talking on the Den Den Mushi. Sea Kings aren't exclusive to the Calm Belt, but it is their nesting grounds and theres an argument to be made that that's the implication



Because Fujitora’s ship was using sails and because there were waves in the water.

This doesn’t happen in the Calm Belt, hence the name.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> How do we know that's *his* fleet? He's hiding from his own no-named henchmen in broom closets to speak to Drake if that's the case. If he's leading the charge like many of you seem to think, why not just order some privacy while he makes a call?


Well of course he'd have to hide it from his men, to them it would look like koby is talking to a pirate(drake)


Louis-954 said:


> How do we know that? There's literally a Sea King in the background when he's talking on the Den Den Mushi. Sea Kings aren't exclusive to the Calm Belt, but it is their nesting grounds and theres an argument to be made that that's the implication.


There's sea king everywhere in the op world

Compare Momoaga and Fujitora and you see what the calm belt look like


Louis-954 said:


> I do not read the story from a power level or favoritism perspective. I look at the story from a "does this make sense?" perspective regardless of the characters involved in whatever is happening. And I haven't seen anything indicating that Koby was *leading* the fleet.


If you read from a "does this make sense?" perspective then why wouldn't a character who ambitions were set since chapter 2 and 3 not get a big feat like this?


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Because Fujitora’s ship was using sails and because there were waves in the water.
> 
> This doesn’t happen in the Calm Belt, hence the name.


We have seen waves in the Calm Belt before. Such as when Momonga meets Hancock and Luffy arrives at Impel Down.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> How do we know that's *his* fleet? He's hiding from his own no-named henchmen in broom closets to speak to Drake if that's the case. If he's leading the charge like many of you seem to think, why not just order some privacy while he makes a call?


Are you suggesting that he wasn't even the highest ranked person on his personal ship?



Louis-954 said:


> How do we know that? There's literally a Sea King in the background when he's talking on the Den Den Mushi. Sea Kings aren't exclusive to the Calm Belt, but it is their nesting grounds and theres an argument to be made that that's the implication.
> 
> This "copium" nonsense is thrown around way too much. I don't hate Koby or Hancock. Could care less whether or not he captures her or if she "takes the L" either. Unlike a majority of OL posters, I do not read the story from a power level or favoritism perspective. I look at the story from a "does this make sense?" perspective regardless of the characters involved in whatever is happening. And I haven't seen anything indicating that Koby was *leading* the fleet.


Who was there that's a higher rank than him? Why was it phrased in a way that indicates that he was going to capture Hancock? Do you acknowledge that Captain Hina had more ships with her in Alabasta than Koby had with him in chapter 956?


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> We have seen waves in the Calm Belt before. Such as when Momonga meets Hancock and Luffy arrives at Impel Down.



I don’t recall this, any panels?

I do specifically remember Momonga’s sails to not be in use when he came to Amazon Lilly, along with Hancock’s ship and all the battleships at Impel Down. Meanwhile Fujitora was using his sails.

So I can’t see how that’s the Calm Belt Fujitora was sailing in.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Well of course he'd have to hide it from his men, to them it would look like koby is talking to a pirate(drake)
> 
> There's sea king everywhere in the op world
> 
> ...


Why do they have to know who he's on the Den Den Mushi with? If he's the leader like you're saying, why can't he just order them out of the room and demand privacy?

Yes, I know there's Sea Kings everywhere, I stated that in my post.

There are waves when Momonga meets Hancock.

Taking down her sisters and commanding officers seems more likely to me. Koby just recently used his CoO on Kyros and thought him to be "strong".  There's a massive gap between the likes of Kyros and Hancock. Taking down Hancock's sisters and reaching Rear or Vice-Admiral makes more sense to me than defeating Hancock who has brought VA's to their knees before and a skilled DF user who possesses all 3 forms of haki as a mere captain.


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## Lmao (Aug 31, 2022)

Weekly Coby underestimation.

He is Garp's student and meant to become an Admiral and y'all think he is losing to Hancock

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Are you suggesting that he wasn't even the highest ranked person on his personal ship?
> 
> 
> *Who was there that's a higher rank than him?* Why was it phrased* in a way that indicates that he was going to capture Hancock*? Do *you acknowledge that Captain Hina had more ships with her in Alabasta than Koby had with him in chapter 956?*


No, I'm suggesting that there's at least a half dozen ships en route to Amazon Lily and that Koby is not the star combatant of the fleet that he's a part of. Could he be the strongest person on his ship? Sure.

We don't know. We saw one ship. What we do know is that at least one vice admiral was sent after Buggy and that they have sent vice admirals after Hancock before. Why wouldn't they include one now?

Generally in a team sport everyone has the same goal. Are you insinuating that no one else in that fleet is heading to Amazon Lily with the goal of capturing Hancock in mind?

Yup, fully acknowledge this. The circumstances are very different though. You seem to think I'm saying that a Captain can't lead a fleet of ships. I'm not saying that* at all*. I'm saying that they aren't sending a newly minted captain as their primary military power to capture Hancock.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I don’t recall this, any panels?
> 
> I do specifically remember Momonga’s sails to not be in use when he came to Amazon Lilly, along with Hancock’s ship and all the battleships at Impel Down. Meanwhile Fujitora was using his sails.
> 
> So I can’t see how that’s the Calm Belt Fujitora was sailing in.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lmao said:


> Weekly Coby underestimation.
> 
> He is Garp's student and meant to become an Admiral and* y'all think he is losing to Hancock*


Again, it's not about power levels or liking/disliking characters for me.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


>



First image doesn’t load for me. Second image doesn’t really look like much waves to me, at least nothing compared to the waves Fujitora was dealing with.

That said in order to make my argument more secure, I’ll change it to ships in the Calm Belt don’t use sails and Fujitora’s ship was using sails therefore he was not in the Calm Belt.

Do you disagree?


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> No, I'm suggesting that there's at least a half dozen ships en route to Amazon Lily and that Koby is not the star combatant of the fleet that he's a part of. Could be be the strongest person on his ship? Sure.
> 
> We don't know. We saw one ship. What we do know is that at least one vice admiral was sent after Buggy and that they have sent vice admirals after Hancock before. Why wouldn't they include one now?
> 
> ...




Sorry. I didn't finish reading. If you're not saying that a Captain can't lead a fleet of ships, I'm not getting your point.

Hina had 8 ships under her command. That's more than the 6 that were with Koby by 2.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> First image doesn’t load for me. Second image doesn’t really look like much waves to me, at least nothing compared to the waves Fujitora was dealing with.
> 
> That said in order to make my argument more secure, *I’ll change it to ships in the Calm Belt don’t use sails and Fujitora’s ship was using sails therefore he was not in the Calm Belt.
> 
> Do you disagree?*


Those are definitely waves.   Here's another.



You'll just have to take my word for it with the Momonga image then. The waves are about the same scale as what you see in the impel down pic.

And no.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Those are definitely waves.   Here's another.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What do you mean no? Do you have one example of a ship using sails in the Calm Belt? The images you link show ships not using their sails which supports my point.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Why do they have to know who he's on the Den Den Mushi with? If he's the leader like you're saying, why can't he just order them out of the room and demand privacy?


Instead of stuffing your men inside the ship and looking supiscious, why not just go in your own room to talk.


Louis-954 said:


> Taking down her sisters and commanding officers seems more likely to me. Koby just recently used his CoO on Kyros and thought him to be "strong"


Fuji basically called luffy strong saying he has the strength to back up his words
Mihawk called zoro strong
Kaido called mink strong
Superior character's calling inferior character strong doesn't mean anything.


Louis-954 said:


> Taking down Hancock's sisters and reaching Rear or Vice-Admiral makes more sense to me than defeating Hancock who has brought VA's to their knees before and a skilled DF user who possesses all 3 forms of haki as a mere captain.


Yup he'll no-diff hancock sister a pre-ts luffy feat, then capture hancock. Like you said she brought a VA to her knees so the only one capturing her is koby.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Hina had 8 ships under her command. That's more than the 6 that were with Koby by 2.


Again, I'm well aware that captains can lead fleets. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. It's not *just* that, my argument is multi-faceted. 

As another coutner-argument though, you do understand that Captains can be a part of OTHER peoples ships/fleets as well, right? How about the 200 that were on the Buster Call warships? How about Tashigi? etc.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> What do you mean no? Do you have one example of a ship using sails in the Calm Belt? The images you link show ships not using their sails which supports my point.


You asked me if I disagreed. I said no.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> You asked me if I disagreed. I said no.



Fair enough, I misread. I do agree with you that there are probably vice admirals supporting Coby on this mission however. Doesn’t make much sense to send a vice admiral for Buggy and not for Hancock.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> *Fair enough, I misread. *I do agree with you that there are probably vice admirals supporting Coby on this mission however. Doesn’t make much sense to send a vice admiral for Buggy and not for Hancock.


Fuji having sails is a detail I missed. I was more focused on the Sea King.

If Koby takes her down I'll come back in here and eat a crow, but I don't think he will because that would essentially qualify him for an Admiral position. I feel like mid-diffing her sisters or something would be a proper Vice-Admiral feat.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Again, I'm well aware that captains can lead fleets. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. It's not *just* that, my argument is multi-faceted.
> 
> As another coutner-argument though, you do understand that Captains can be a part of OTHER peoples ships/fleets as well, right? How about the 200 that were on the Buster Call warships? How about Tashigi? etc.


I edited my post. I just don't see it. Is it possible that someone else is commanding the Fleet? Sure. Is that what the scene implies? No. It implies that Koby's leading it. That's what the dialogue and imagery indicates. Nothing really suggests that Fujitora was there either. But maybe he was.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Fuji having sails is a detail I missed. I was more focused on the Sea King.
> 
> If Koby takes her down I'll come back in here and eat a crow, but I don't think he will because that would essentially qualify him for an Admiral position. I feel like mid-diffing her sisters or something would be a proper Vice-Admiral feat.


I don't think defeating Hancock would qualify someone for an Admiral position at all.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I don't think defeating Hancock would qualify someone for an Admiral position at all.


She's *effortlessly *above seasoned Vice-Admirals like Momonga with her most basic technique, meaning you need to be far stronger than a notable VA to defeat her 1 on 1.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Fuji having sails is a detail I missed. I was more focused on the Sea King.
> 
> If Koby takes her down I'll come back in here and eat a crow, but I don't think he will because that would essentially qualify him for an Admiral position. I feel like mid-diffing her sisters or something would be a proper Vice-Admiral feat.



When do you see Coby becoming Admiral level then? We’re already in the final saga according to Oda.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> *When do you see Coby becoming Admiral level then*? We’re already in the final saga according to Oda.


Probably around the time Luffy finds One Piece... call it.. 2 months in universe? I feel like if they do fight it'll be in an epilogue chapter of sorts.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> She's *effortlessly *above seasoned Vice-Admirals like Momonga with her most basic technique, meaning you need to be far stronger than a notable VA to defeat her 1 on 1.


She used an attack and it was countered. I agree that the portrayal indicates that she was above Momonga, but not to the point where you'd need an Admiral to fight her. Gun to my head, if someone asked me if she was closer to Momonga or Akainu... I'd say Momonga in a second.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> When do you see Coby becoming Admiral level then? We’re already in the final saga according to Oda.


What do you think? Because the whole issue I have with him taking her down now (assuming he does so solo) is that in my mind that puts him at r very very near Admiral level not too long after admiring Kyros' level of strength. That's what I struggle with.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> She used an attack and it was countered. I agree that the portrayal indicates that she was above Momonga, but not to the point where you'd need an Admiral to fight her. Gun to my head, if someone asked me if she was closer to Momonga or Akainu... I'd say Momonga in a second.


And I would agree to a certain extent. There's a big in-between space between Admiral level and Vice-Admiral. But unlike you, I see Hancock as being a bit closer to Akainu on that sliding scale than Momonga.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> What do you think? Because the whole issue I have with him taking her down now (assuming he does so solo) is that in my mind that puts him at r very very near Admiral level not too long after admiring Kyros' level of strength. That's what I struggle with.


How strong do you think Hancock is? Who would you compare her to in terms of strength?


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> And I would agree to a certain extent. There's a big in-between space between Admiral level and Vice-Admiral. But unlike you, I see Hancock as being a bit closer to Akainu on that sliding scale than Momonga.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it.


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> What do you think? Because the whole issue I have with him taking her down now (assuming he does so solo) is that in my mind that puts him at r very very near Admiral level not too long after admiring Kyros' level of strength. That's what I struggle with.



I’m not sure anymore tbh. Once upon a time I thought Mihawk and the marines will have an epic clash but that didn’t happen.

I can see Coby and some vice admirals storming Amazon Lily but I can also see Coby and Hancock fangirling over Luffy together and there not even being a fight lol. Anything is possible with Oda these days.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> How strong do you think Hancock is? *Who would you compare her to in terms of strength?*


Doflamingo.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> I’m not sure anymore tbh. *Once upon a time I thought Mihawk and the marines will have an epic clash but that didn’t happen.*
> 
> I can see Coby and some vice admirals storming Amazon Lily but I can also see Coby and Hancock fangirling over Luffy together and there not even being a fight lol. Anything is possible with Oda these days.


That's honestly who Fujitora should have been assigned to go capture since he caused this whole renegade Shichibukai shitstorm and essentially led to the Cross Guilds creation.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree.* I could be wrong*, but I just don't see it.


Welp, hopefully we find out one way or the other within the next 2-3 chapters how the whole Koby and Hancock stuff plays out, then we can revisit this debate.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> That's honestly who Fujitora should have been assigned to go capture since he caused this whole renegade Shichibukai shitstorm and essentially led to the Cross Guilds creation.



Agreed. I was convinced Fujitora was going after Mihawk the entire time tbh and was disappointed that’s not the case.

I wish Oda just gave us more than bread crumbs.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> Agreed. I was convinced Fujitora was going after Mihawk the entire time tbh and was disappointed that’s not the case.
> 
> I wish Oda just gave us more than bread crumbs.


Maynard was probably leading the Mihawk fleet...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Doflamingo.


That's fair I guess. I'd personally put her somewhere between Vergo and Doflamingo, but I could see her being on that level.



Louis-954 said:


> Welp, hopefully we find out one way or the other within the next 2-3 chapters how the whole Koby and Hancock stuff plays out, then we can revisit this debate.


Yeah. It's possible that a Vice Admiral is in command of the Fleet. There's a good chance of that. I do think the scene and portrayal implies that Koby's going to fight Hancock though.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Maynard was probably leading the Mihawk fleet...



What’s your opinion of Akainu as a fleet admiral now? None of the shichibukai captured and the revos escaped.

Marines sound bad. Coby is their only salvation.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Maynard was probably leading the Mihawk fleet...


That scrub can die for all I care. He destroyed all hype for Vice Admirals with his incompetence.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> What’s your opinion of Akainu as a fleet admiral now? None of the shichibukai captured and the revos escaped.
> 
> Marines sound bad. Coby is their only salvation.


At the start of the TS I was hyped because it looked like he wasn't taking any shit from the Yonko by re-locating HQ to the New World. Since then though it just kind of seems like he's in over his head and very indecisive about what to do when it comes to both the Yonko and the Shichibukai and when he does decide to act he's usually a step behind. So thus far I'm disappointed with him.

Last time we saw him though he appeared to have a renewed sense of resolve. Guess we'll see what comes of that. :x

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> What do you think? Because the whole issue I have with him taking her down now (assuming he does so solo) is that in my mind that puts him at r very very near Admiral level not too long after admiring Kyros' level of strength. That's what I struggle with.


Kaido called minks strong
Doffy called sanji strong
Mihawk called zoro strong.

Why is there a problem with him being humble and calling kyros strong?


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Kaido called minks strong
> Doffy called sanji strong
> Mihawk called zoro strong.
> 
> Why is there a problem with him being humble and calling kyros strong?


There isn't a problem with it. It's but *one* aspect of the *totality* of my argument. When I consider everything all together, that's why I feel the way I do.


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## Nox (Aug 31, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yes. And? Hancock isn't Luffy and we have no reason to believe she's even close.
> 
> 
> Sandersonia and Marigold have nowhere near the same narrative significance or long term potential as Koby. Expecting them to grow at the same rate as Koby is wishing on a star.



Highlighting the ridiculousness of the sisters 2v1 as an indictment while ignoring that Base Luffy one shot Koby and couldn't land a punch on either without G2. Were Koby to beat them, his feats will be better than any Rear Admiral. Sengoku/Kuzan vouched for Hancock and remarked that it was too early for Luffy to stand before them. It took a TS and defeating Commander calibers for Admiral characters to afford Luffy respect. Supernova, 300m, attacking CD, clashing with Kizaru/PX and still Elder Nyon didn't believe Luffy could survive MF. She didn't second guess Hancock ability to leave unscathed. 

It was scaling relative to Luffy more so Dressrosa (and prior to DD defeat) as this the last time non YC could challenge G2. However, lord forbid an island of warrior women is shown stronger, even without post TS inflation, the sisters contested pre TS G2. If Koby goes from Base one shot to handling pre TS G2 level opponents, that itself is growth. What narrative significance requires Koby defeats Hancock? His appointment into Admiralty isn't predicated on it. Potential doesn't undermine portrayal, Sanji has more potential/significance than Marco but he wasn't 2v1 King/Queen. I want Koby to beat Hancock but there's just no groundwork beyond hope. And hope is cope.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## luffy no haki (Aug 31, 2022)

Koby is a statue right now.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> There isn't a problem with it. It's but *one* aspect of the *totality* of my argument. When I consider everything all together, that's why I feel the way I do.


Momo went from a crybaby to someone capable of doing something to an admiral, there shouldn't be a problem with koby capturing hancock.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Momo went from a crybaby to someone capable of doing something to an admiral, there shouldn't be a problem with koby capturing hancock.


Momonosuke possesses Ryokugyu's elemental weakness and had his scabbards present to assist him in distracting and attacking him.

It's not even a remotely similar scenario.


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## Lee-Sensei (Aug 31, 2022)

Nox said:


> Highlighting the ridiculousness of the sisters 2v1 as an indictment while ignoring that Base Luffy one shot Koby and couldn't land a punch on either without G2. Were Koby to beat them, his feats will be better than any Rear Admiral. Sengoku/Kuzan vouched for Hancock and remarked that it was too early for Luffy to stand before them. It took a TS and defeating Commander calibers for Admiral characters to afford Luffy respect. Supernova, 300m, attacking CD, clashing with Kizaru/PX and still Elder Nyon didn't believe Luffy could survive MF. She didn't second guess Hancock ability to leave unscathed.


Cool. We're talking about her sisters. Not Hancock. My statement is 100% correct. They lost to Pre-TS Luffy in a 2v1. It's possible that Koby is Pre-TS Luffy level. But very unlikely.



Nox said:


> It was scaling relative to Luffy more so Dressrosa (and prior to DD defeat) as this the last time non YC could challenge G2. However, lord forbid an island of warrior women is shown stronger, even without post TS inflation, the sisters contested pre TS G2. If Koby goes from Base one shot to handling pre TS G2 level opponents, that itself is growth. What narrative significance requires Koby defeats Hancock? His appointment into Admiralty isn't predicated on it. Potential doesn't undermine portrayal, Sanji has more potential/significance than Marco but he wasn't 2v1 King/Queen. I want Koby to beat Hancock but there's just no groundwork beyond hope. And hope is cope.


This has nothing to do with women. Big Mom would stomps Koby with ease. Hancock isn't Big Mom and Sandersonia and Marigold aren't Hancock. For the record, I imagine that Koby was weaker than Hancock when they fought. I think he probably won with the help of the SSG. But Koby fighting her sisters seems like cope to me. The implication of chapter 956 was that he was going to fight Hancock. Not her sisters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Koby awoke haki Pre-TS and was molded by Garp from the ground up. The Law power buff between Dressrossa and Wano is more ridiculous than Koby coming back and going from Kuro to Diamante/Kyros level. He had no training arcs and didn't fight a series of intense battles like Luffy and yet he saw massive gains.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Momonosuke possesses Ryokugyu's elemental weakness and had his scabbards present to assist him in distracting and attacking him.
> 
> It's not even a remotely similar scenario.


Not a weakness, he found a way to pass it, momo had the scabbards assist like how koby will have marines.


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## Lmao (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Again, it's not about power levels or liking/disliking characters for me.


It's one thing for Coby to fight Hancock and her managing to escape and another thing entirely for Coby to _lose _at this point in the manga.

First scenario is very plausible but there's absolutely zero chance he lost that fight.

It has nothing to do with powerlevels or bias either, he really can't become an Admiral in the eyes of the readers if he doesn't get some solid W before clashing with EoS Luffy.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Not a weakness, he found a way to pass it, momo had the scabbards assist like how *koby will have marines.*


Absolutely a weakness.

If Koby doesn't defeat her 1-on-1 he can't take full credit for the feat of taking her down. If your agenda is to fast track him to Admiral level as soon as possible, then the last thing you want is for him to have help.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lmao said:


> It's one thing for Coby to fight Hancock and her managing to escape and another thing entirely for Coby to _lose _at this point in the manga.
> 
> First scenario is very plausible but there's absolutely zero chance he lost that fight.
> 
> It has nothing to do with powerlevels or bias either, *he really can't become an Admiral in the eyes of the readers if he doesn't get some solid W before clashing with EoS Luffy.*


There's this thing called progression. Beating Sandersonia and Marigold on his own would be an impressive, Vice-Admiral promotion worthy feat. Using them as stepping stones to reach VA, training more inbetween that and then maybe returning later on to clash with Law (Rocky Port Incident revenge) or Cross Guild Guild (he did say he wanted to capture Alvida) makes more sense to me than just fast-tracking him because Luffy is ahead of him (as he should be) right now.


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## Lmao (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Beating Sandersonia and Marigold on his own would be an impressive, Vice-Admiral promotion worthy feat.


Bro beating the Boa sisters is a preTS Luffy feat.

At this rate he's going to need a decade of training to even look PK Luffy in the eyes let alone clash with him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> Absolutely a weakness.
> 
> If Koby doesn't defeat her 1-on-1 he can't take full credit for the feat of taking her down. If your agenda is to fast track him to Admiral level as soon as possible, then the last thing you want is for him to have help.


Not a weakness ryo found a way to solve it.

WYM, the marines will help take out the kuja warriors that how koby and boa finna 1v1 without anyone  interfering , oda already said op ends when luffy finds the one piece, so no epilogue he's becoming admiral level right now.


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## Louis-954 (Aug 31, 2022)

Lmao said:


> *Bro beating the Boa sisters is a preTS Luffy feat.*
> 
> At this rate he's going to need a decade of training to even look PK Luffy in the eyes let alone clash with him.


1. The timeskip occurred for more people than just the Strawhats.
2. Koby was impressed by the strength he felt from Kyros who can't even use Haki. Why wouldn't he feel something similar about the Sandersonia and Marigold?
3. Koby's best feats are getting OHKO'd by an exhausted pre-ts Luffy. I'd say defeating some post-timeskip Boa sisters is pretty substantial jump from that.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Aug 31, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> 1. The timeskip occurred for more people than just the Strawhats.


Oda set up koby vs hancock, koby very clearly said "capture pirate empress" not boa sisters.


Louis-954 said:


> Koby was impressed by the strength he felt from Kyros who can't even use Haki. Why wouldn't he feel something similar about the Sandersonia and Marigold?


Lol you keep using this

Kaido said minks are strong
Mihawk said baratie zoro is strong
Doffy said sanji is strong

This doesn't mean anything.


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## Louis-954 (Sep 1, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda set up koby vs hancock, koby very clearly said *"capture pirate empress" not boa sisters.
> 
> Lol you keep using this*
> 
> ...


You *DO* understand that if 6 Marine battleships pull up on the island that more than* JUST* Hancock is going to resist the invasion, correct? What if Sandersonia and Marigold don't give Koby any choice but to fight them? You think they are just gonna sit there? What if a team of Vice-Admirals takes on Hancock?

There's these two things thing called "context" and "totality" of my argument. Things you tend to ignore.



If you can't tell the difference between the way Koby calls Kyros strong and the examples you keep citing, then you're beyond help. The way Koby says "Woah.." and the expression on his face when he does so is a starkly juxtaposed with Mihawk showing a reverent respect of Zoro's resolve, Doffy being playfully sarcastic and Kaido acknowledging power after seeing them take down one of his strongest men with his own eyes.


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## Nox (Sep 1, 2022)

These comparisons to Law are so laughably horrendous.



Lee-Sensei said:


> Cool. We're talking about her sisters. Not Hancock. My statement is 100% correct. They lost to Pre-TS Luffy in a 2v1. It's possible that Koby is Pre-TS Luffy level. But very unlikely.
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with women. Big Mom would stomps Koby with ease. Hancock isn't Big Mom and Sandersonia and Marigold aren't Hancock. *For the record, I imagine that Koby was weaker than Hancock when they fought. I think he probably won with the help of the SSG.* But Koby fighting her sisters seems like cope to me. The implication of chapter 956 was that he was going to fight Hancock. Not her sisters.



Focus. G2 Luffy beats Sandersonia and Marigold > Base Luffy couldn't beat Sandersonia = Base Luffy couldn't beat Marigold > Base Luffy one shot Koby. Their individual performance let alone combined loss to Luffy is several tiers above Koby. How is it controversial to suggest Koby fights both? 

The fandom expects/speculates is that former CP9 and Baroque Works will scale. How is it strange that Gorgon Sisters can/will too? They hail from the human equivalent of Minks in that they're warriors. Again, I conceded on the point on prospective TS scale up and added Koby's beating both would be a personal best. *Bold: *And I've been commenting and arguing about what Koby achieves *solo*:  



Nox said:


> M3 fresh into TS manhandled Pacifistas, without the luxury of a stand-down due to Warlord association. *Its expected that Hancock wins.* Nevertheless, between his Admiral ambition, Garp tutelage, induction into SWORD and "Hero Of" status, *it shouldn't be one sho*t. *Tobbiroppo possess Arms/Orbs*, *contested & withstood G4, RS and Yamato. Did it matter to their Mid/Weak trio* opponents? *In an ideal scenario:* Fujitora leads the envoy against Hancock and *Koby handles both Sandersonia/Marigold*. Rayleigh intervenes to rescue Hancock. ........ *Whatever the case, I don't want to see a Koby fodderized*. It happens and I'm out.



If you don't think Koby defeats Hancock alone I don't know what this back and forth is. I believe in 1v1 Koby can hold his own against Hancock but loses (and can 2v1 beat her sisters). You believe SGS shifts the scales into his favor (and I think Fuji). Capturing =/= Defeating Hancock, Smoker captured Crocodile, Luffy defeated him. *Drake:* _I did_ XYZ, _I saw_ ABC and _I believe_ 123. Where are you?? *Koby:* _I am_ headed to Amazon Lily. The conversation was a personal debrief and we see Koby amongst the force assigned to arrest Hancock. Kizaru was dispatched for Luffy. Not 5 Supernovas. Did he not deal with them? Again, OP asked about Koby vs Hancock and he isn't winning alone.


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## Lmao (Sep 1, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> 2. Koby was impressed by the strength he felt from *Kyros who can't even use Haki.* Why wouldn't he feel something similar about the Sandersonia and Marigold?


Lolwhat? Kyros is a legendary gladiator and everyone and their mother can use haki in the NW, to insinuate he can't use Haki is just silly.

, surely you're not going to argue Diamante can't use Haki when Pica can clad himself in fullbody armament. Coby was absolutely right he is strong, that's actually a testament to his CoO being able to recognize how strong the person standing in front of him was.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 1, 2022)

Nox said:


> These comparisons to Law are so laughably horrendous.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again. Koby's performance against Luffy 2+ years ago is irrelevant. They were far above him at that point. The difference is that Koby isn't a static character. He grows in strength rapidly. So does Luffy. If you were saying that Luffy right now could one shot Koby, I'd probably agree with you. We're comparing him to Sandersonia and Marigold. People that lost in a 2v1 to Pre-TS Luffy. If you think Koby is going to show up and be around Pre-TS Luffy's level, then he still wins in a 2v1. I think he's very comfortably above Pre-TS Luffy. Probably around the level of Kyros, who defeated one of Doflamingo's executives. That places him well above their pay grade, but probably still beneath Hancock.

The Law comparisons aren't horrendous at all, by the way. If anything, it makes far less sense. People accept it, because it fits with their narrative. Koby beating Hancock doesn't (for a lot of people... not all).


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 1, 2022)

Louis-954 said:


> 1. The timeskip occurred for more people than just the Strawhats.
> 2. Koby was impressed by the strength he felt from Kyros who can't even use Haki. Why wouldn't he feel something similar about the Sandersonia and Marigold?
> 3. Koby's best feats are getting OHKO'd by an exhausted pre-ts Luffy. I'd say defeating some post-timeskip Boa sisters is pretty substantial jump from that.


I should point out that Robin and Franky beat members of the F6 and neither one has any form of Haki.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 1, 2022)

Oda isn't drawing no dialogue when he clearly wants to finish op in three years and then live peacefully with his family.


Koby is about to rack up admiral status and feats. He's already famous around the opworld but he'll be more known.


Sorry Boa is a hypetool and has no narrative purpose.


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## Beyonce (Sep 1, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> only the guy who made the thread can decide that


If Hancock loses lock it (and all threads pertaining to Hancock) if she wins leave it open I have to post my victory speech

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2022)

I doubt Coby beats Hancock Solo, but could he have beaten her with help from Fujitora or SSG. Yeah for sure


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I doubt Coby beats Hancock Solo, but could he have beaten her with help from Fujitora or SSG. Yeah for sure


Eos Koby is suprassing every top tier, shanks,mihawk, admiral's.

He doesn't need help don't know what's so hard to understand, he's been here since chap 2.


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Eos Koby is suprassing every top tier, shanks,mihawk, admiral's.
> 
> He doesn't need help don't know what's so hard to understand, he's been here since chap 2.


What does EoS Coby have to do with Current Coby?
—-
Anyway my money is on Fujitora capture Boa, as it would be Ironic that the only Warlord Fujitora’s initiative managed to capture was the one good Warlord who was trying to help her people.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What does EoS Coby have to do with Current Coby?
> —-
> Anyway my money is on Fujitora capture Boa, as it would be Ironic that the only Warlord Fujitora’s initiative managed to capture was the one good Warlord who was trying to help her people.


The marine ships were already deployed at the kuja island, fuji was seen somewhere else with other fleet, makes no sense for an admiral go after boa and not any other shibi, then you'll hear boa is the strongest shibi, boa>mihawk.


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> The marine ships were already deployed at the kuja island, fuji was seen somewhere else with other fleet, makes no sense for an admiral go after boa and not any other shibi, then you'll hear boa is the strongest shibi, boa>mihawk.


Was he? What chapter was that because I thought it was unclear where he was. And I think with Amazon Lilly it makes sense to send an Admiral because they were up against just Boa but all of Amazon Lily.

I also don’t really see any narrative purpose to Coby Capturing Boa solo or why a Rear Admiral would be sent to lead the charge


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## Lyren (Sep 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> I doubt Coby beats Hancock Solo, but could he have beaten her with help from Fujitora or SSG. Yeah for sure


Last time Fujitora talked to Akainu, a dead sea king was shown on his boat, which could imply he was headed towards Calm Belt. 
Not sure if he has what it takes to beat Hancock though


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## Beyonce (Sep 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Was he? What chapter was that because I thought it was unclear where he was. And I think with Amazon Lilly it makes sense to send an Admiral because they were up against just Boa but all of Amazon Lily.
> 
> I also don’t really see any narrative purpose to Coby Capturing Boa solo or why a *Rear Admiral *would be sent to lead the charge


Koby’s a captain no? I thought the rear admiral was a translation error


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## ShWanks (Sep 1, 2022)

No, oda would never do PTS Warlords like that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2022)

Beyonce said:


> Koby’s a captain no? I thought the rear admiral was a translation error


Not sure. Only saw that one trans


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## Turrin (Sep 1, 2022)

Lyren said:


> Last time Fujitora talked to Akainu, a dead sea king was shown on his boat, which could imply he was headed towards Calm Belt.
> Not sure if he has what it takes to beat Hancock though


Fujitora plus backup I buy beating Hancock

Reactions: Informative 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 1, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Was he? What chapter was that because I thought it was unclear where he was. And I think with Amazon Lilly it makes sense to send an Admiral because they were up against just Boa but all of Amazon Lily.
> 
> I also don’t really see any narrative purpose to Coby Capturing Boa solo or why a Rear Admiral would be sent to lead the charge


Captain ranks and above can lead their own ships btw, so it does make sense.

956 we see the marine ships close to woman island, 957 we only see 2-3 fleets with fujitora, which implies he's not there.


Wouldn't you say mihawk>entire kuja island?

So why wasn't an admiral sent for mihawk or even buggy who has the most military might, this would imply boa is the strongest shibi.


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## Turrin (Sep 2, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Captain ranks and above can lead their own ships btw, so it does make sense.
> 
> 956 we see the marine ships close to woman island, 957 we only see 2-3 fleets with fujitora, which implies he's not there.
> 
> ...


Their own Ship sure. However sending a captain to secure a warlord in charge of a whole fleet makes no sense at all.
——-
Suppressing a State is harder to deal with then a single individual.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Their own Ship sure. However sending a captain to secure a warlord in charge of a whole fleet makes no sense at all.


Sure, but this captain is an anamoly, it's like complaining bout sending garp a va instead of an admiral.


Turrin said:


> Suppressing a State is harder to deal with then a single individual.


So Entire Amazon Lily> Mihawk?

the 2 sisters lost to pre-ts luffy, so answer.


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 2, 2022)

Turrin said:


> What does EoS Coby have to do with Current Coby?
> —-
> Anyway my money is on Fujitora capture Boa, as it would be Ironic that the only Warlord Fujitora’s initiative managed to capture was the one good Warlord who was trying to help her people.


Why do people think Boa Hancock is a good person? She's objectively a terrible person by most metrics. She just loves Luffy.


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## Turrin (Sep 3, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Why do people think Boa Hancock is a good person? She's objectively a terrible person by most metrics. She just loves Luffy.


Because she takes care of Amazon Lily. Unlike the other Warlords who are usually just preying on whatever island they are apart of


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## Turrin (Sep 3, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Sure, but this captain is an anamoly, it's like complaining bout sending garp a va instead of an admiral.
> 
> So Entire Amazon Lily> Mihawk?
> 
> the 2 sisters lost to pre-ts luffy, so answer.


Garp is only a VA because he choose to be. If Marines thought Coby was > Captain they would have promoted him to RA or VA. So ether he’s not or they aren’t aware of how strong Coby has become, in which case they wouldn’t send him to carrier out this mission solo.
——
Yeah I would have the entire Island of Amazon Lily and Boa above Mihawk, even if only slightly. The fact of the matter is even the basic soldiers of Amazon lily can use Haki, which already puts them way ahead of most Fodder in the series. They are also all ranged fighters making them even more difficult to handle in groups as they can rain down Haki Arrows.

I don’t really take the two sisters loosing very seriously ether as back then Oda didn’t have the concept of Haki  or power scale planned out well back then, which is why Luffy’s fears against Haki users in the war of the best are extremely wonky as well. Including how he handled himself against Mihawk. Ether that or P1 Luffy by the time of the end of P1 is simply way stronger then he is given credit for here and he didn’t make that big of a jump in strength over the TIme-Skip except with G4. Ether way those sisters get a pass and I expect them to look way stronger if they ever fought again in P2.

Additionally I also believe Boa is the 2/3 Strongest Warlord after Mihawk anyway. Since she is so tied to Haki mastery which now is such a huge power in P2 of the series. Only Mihawk and maybe Weevile do I see beating her (and weevil is a huge if). And I believe she will be Low Top Tier.

So I think one Low Top Tier with two probably Low Commander level Sisters and an army of the Strongest Fodder in any army we have seen thus far is probably above Mihawk.

And you got to kind of admit the WG saw it that way too unless you think Mihawk beat Fujitora, which I’m sure you will never agree too


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 3, 2022)

Turrin said:


> Garp is only a VA because he choose to be. If Marines thought Coby was > Captain they would have promoted him to RA or VA. So ether he’s not or they aren’t aware of how strong Coby has become, in which case they wouldn’t send him to carrier out this mission solo.


Age, and experience also play a role but koby will be an anomaly once he captures hancock, he's above maynard who's a VA.


Turrin said:


> Yeah I would have the entire Island of Amazon Lily and Boa above Mihawk, even if only slightly. The fact of the matter is even the basic soldiers of Amazon lily can use Haki, which already puts them way ahead of most Fodder in the series. They are also all ranged fighters making them even more difficult to handle in groups as they can rain down Haki Arrows.


Cmon, stop it.


Turrin said:


> Additionally I also believe Boa is the 2/3 Strongest Warlord after Mihawk anyway. Since she is so tied to Haki mastery which now is such a huge power in P2 of the series. Only Mihawk and maybe Weevile do I see beating her (and weevil is a huge if). And I believe she will be Low Top Tier.


Weevil is stronger then both of them tbh. No shibi got hyped like him.


Turrin said:


> And you got to kind of admit the WG saw it that way too unless you think Mihawk beat Fujitora, which I’m sure you will never agree too


WG sent more ships for mihawk and buggy then kuja island lol.


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## Turrin (Sep 3, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Age, and experience also play a role but koby will be an anomaly once he captures hancock, he's above maynard who's a VA.
> 
> Cmon, stop it.
> 
> ...


Age and experience also factor into who you send to lead important missions. Yet according to you the WG/Marines believe Coby has enough of that to lead this mission and enough strength to suppress Boa and Amazon Lily. Yet he doesn’t even qualify to be a RA/VA.

Come on dude this is a nonsensical argument 
——
If your not going to respond to what I said I’ll take it as a concession.
—-
I’m sorry but I don’t have Young WB Pre-Gura above Mihawk, which is the highest Weevil has been hyped. Perhaps he can be above Boa and also a Low Top Tier, but until we see or hear more that’s as high as I can go with him.
—-
Where do you see that? Can you link me to the panels


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 3, 2022)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Age, and experience also play a role but koby will be an anomaly once he captures hancock, he's above maynard who's a VA.
> 
> Cmon, stop it.
> 
> ...


Mihawk is above both of them.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 3, 2022)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Mihawk is above both of them.


Don't know about that yet, he's above boa, but weevil is still questionable.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Sep 3, 2022)

oda said this マスター when referring to koby mastering rokushiki



 This is cp9 lucchi saying, これを極めた 一人の強度は 百人力に 値する 

So koby rokushiki>cp9.


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