# OROCHIMARU VS Six Paths of Pain



## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

No Zetsu Body, Part I Edo's Only. 

Oro has full knowledge (Oro researched Akatsuki and even figured out Tobi = Obito, according to Kabuto). Pain has manga knowledge (he mentioned White snake powers so probably knows if all). 

Sannin battlefield location. 

Who wins?


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## gregclark44 (Oct 11, 2015)

definitely have to side with pain on this one B/C different hax capabilities.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

gregclark44 said:


> definitely have to side with pain on this one B/C different hax capabilities.


I would say Oro. Jiraiya can beat pain with knowledge. Oro is stronger than Jiraiya and has knowledge. He can beat pain. Preta Path gets taken out instantly. Oro uses physical attacks. He uses Rashomon to then create a divide so he can't be Bansho Ten'in'd. He preps Edo behind the gates. Hashi and Tobi sneak attack Naraka and Human path and take them out. Hiraishingiri couldn't be reached to by an MS user and Hashirama can create entire forests in an instant. It then boils down to Oro, Hashirama and Tobirama VS Deva, Animal, Asura. Oro takes Animal. Oro's summons are faster than Pain's summons and have poison. Hashirama takes Asura and crushes him with the brute force of Mokuton spam. Tobirama takes Deva and in the 5 second ST time lag he can Hiraishingiri one shot him.


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## LostSelf (Oct 11, 2015)

Pain is on another level to any Sannin. He sooner or later is going to overwhelm Orochimaru with superior firepower. I don't think CT is needed, however, just in case Pain is forced to, Oro doesn't have a counter for that.

Pain wins mid-diff.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> Pain is on another level to any Sannin. He sooner or later is going to overwhelm Orochimaru with superior firepower. I don't think CT is needed, however, just in case Pain is forced to, Oro doesn't have a counter for that.
> 
> Pain wins mid-diff.


Pain is on another level to any Sannin. Is that why Pain said he would have been unable to defeat Jiraiya if he had Intel. Is that why Oro who is stronger than Jiraiya can beat pain and had Intel. Is that why Tsunade tanked CST for an entire village.


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## LostSelf (Oct 11, 2015)

Pain said Jiraiya would've beaten him under the conditions where the fight happened, and Deva Path was not present.

In a place where Pain starts with 6 bodies and where he can nuke all he wants, he'll end being too much for either Sannin.

To put an example, i see SM Naruto on a Sannin level. And look how well he fared once Deva Path recovered his powers. Basically, lost in a two-steps maneuver in a combo with Deva Path and Preta Path.

You can argue Oro or Jiraiya can be stronger than SM Naruto. But the amount of superiority between Pain and Naruto at the time was way larger than the amount of difference between the Sannin and Pain arc- SM Naruto. If we go with ABC logic.


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## Zef (Oct 11, 2015)

Let Oro deal with Sharingan users first before we upgrade to Rinnegan users.

Pein, no difficulty.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 11, 2015)

Orochimaru with full knowledge has Hashirama use Kokuangyo no Jutsu, then Naraka dies, followed by Human, Deva, Preta, Animal, and then Asura dying.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

LostSelf: at the end of the fight all 6 pain's were there. That's what allowed them to win in the first place because when it was just 3 paths Jiraiya soloed them with Genjutsu. Pain can't nuke all he wants while the other pain's are standing there, unless he wants to kill them while Oro tanks it and then regenerates, gets up, and soloes deva in the time he can't use his powers which will be higher than 5 seconds if we're talking about nuke like CST. Naruto was not legit. He started in SM, had boss toads out, 2 clones with SM chakra, fresh out of training, while pain had been fighting a village. In Jiraiya's case he didn't start in SM, had no prep time, whereas pain new he was in Amegakure and had prep time. Jiriaya even had to waste chakra on Konan before the real fight began. 

Zef: I made a whole thread about how Orochimaru is actually legitimately > Itachi. It got locked though. But feel free to read my OP on it. It's an essay type though so it's long. Just about an hour ago I made it. 

Flaming Rain: correct. I didn't even consider Kokuangyo myself.


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## LostSelf (Oct 11, 2015)

Part 1 Edo's with part 1 showings or powerscaled?

Because if it's part 1 showings, they are fed to CT or to BT + Human realm combo.

@Izaya: Jiraiya managed that thanks to the location. He could run away, use trickery, etc. The fact that Deva Path could prevent him from running with BT, or the fact that Deva Path can one-shot Shima/Fukusaku with Shinra Tensei and end Jiraiya's sage mode is something that would've screwed Jiraiya in the beggining of the fight.

Aside from Sage Mode, he also needed to guerilla tactics against only three bodies. What happened off-panel is unknown, as we don't know how much troubles a Jiraiya with one arm gave to the 6 paths when a Jiraiya without being injured couldn't be facing three paths face to face.


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## ARGUS (Oct 11, 2015)

Pein shows him why he's his boss 
Orochimaru gets humiliated


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

Power scaled.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

Oro > Jiraiya > Pain. Based on the manga. Beg to differ?


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## Zef (Oct 11, 2015)

Gedo Mazo is enough to neg Oro, and any Edo Tensei he summons.

Or is only Nagato allowed Gedo?


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 11, 2015)

Please. Hanzo dodged Gedo. Tobirama is the fastest shinobi surpassed only by Minato. 

Yes, only Nagato allowed since rods have to go in his back. Six paths have no feats for Gedo. 

Human, Naraka, Preta path have no attack or defence for PHYSICAL attacks, which Oro thrives in. They die instantly in Kokuanyo. The others don't last much longer. Especially when snakes can sense using heat and smells. If Manda is summoned inside Kokuangyo Oro wins.


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## Zef (Oct 11, 2015)

The same Hanzo shat on the Sannin so............ Not sure how he justifies Oro not getting negged by the Gedo Statue.

Also don't know what relevance Tobirama, or Minato have. Don't tell me you're putting Jiraiya up in their speed for whatever reason......

Lastly, if Pein can't summon Gedo Mazo I highly doubt it's because of the chakra receivers in Nagato's back. All the Pein bodies have it pierced in various places on their body.


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## Mercurial (Oct 11, 2015)

Deva Path alone stomps Orochimaru.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 11, 2015)

Pain Bansho Tenins the zombies into a double-soul-rip while the remaining paths gang-rape Orochimaru with chakra rods.

This is a fucking curbstomp.


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## sanninme rikudo (Oct 11, 2015)

Deva alone taxes Orochimaru. Add in the others and he's done for.


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## Matty (Oct 11, 2015)

Oro is stomped. Pein is in a league beyond Oro's reach


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## savior2005 (Oct 11, 2015)

pain stomps. wtf has orochimaru done to you to deserve this.


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## Bloo (Oct 11, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Oro > Jiraiya > Pain. Based on the manga. Beg to differ?


Based on the manga, Jiraiya was killed by Pein and you still place Jiraiya above him..?


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Gedo statue couldn't beat choji or Kakashi. Why would it beat Oro. 

Deva can't solo anything when pain had admitted inferiority to a guy weaker than Oro. Why didn't Gedo neg Jiraiya?


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

I place Jiraiya above pain only because of what nagato himself said. Jiraiya had no knowledge. Naruto win against Kakuzu and Pain wasn't legit either. At the time both were stronger than naruto


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Deva don't stop no one. Pain said he was weaker than JMan and won due to a knowledge advantage. And then Jiraiya said he's weaker than Oro. Oro said it too. And so did Sandaime. Little do people know Oro > Akatsuki. Yes he lost to Itachi but first time he had no intent to kill and just wanted a body, meaning he was near his time limit like when he fought Naruto and was weakens. The second time he was immobile. If prime Oro can beat Jiraiya who can beat Pain/Nagato, Orochimaru is definitely stronger than Itachi. But people have such weak minds and lack the ability to read between the lines and analyse the manga, such as when Itachi basically said JMan can beat 4 akatsuki cos Itachi said even with backup him and Kissme stood no chance. I made an essay thread on this but it got locked for no reason. Thanks NF.

But feel free to read anyway and PM me on what you think. it's called OROCHIMARU IS STRONGER THAN ITACHI UCHIHA: AN IN-DEPTH OROCHIMARU ANALYSIS. 

I made some good points there and it would be a fun topic to discuss. I want it unlocked.


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## Kyu (Oct 12, 2015)

...Nagato wasn't going all out in his own village.  Jiraiya didn't get instantly rekt because of the environment & his expertise in making use of it. Could he have won with all the odds stacked in his favor? Quite possibly, but what does that say when his opponent is extensively handicapped?

Now had Pein fought without restraint, he'd carve a hole in Jiraiya's taint and proceed to sodomize - full knowledge or no.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Oro is so underrated. He's stronger than the guy who was said to be stronger than six paths of pain if he had the same knowledge that Oro acquired on his former colleague Pain yet people say Deva soloes. Who has Deva ever soloed besides love struck Hinata. Deva tried to solo Konoha but Tsunade, the weakest sannin (in terms of combat) tanked CST for herself and Konoha. Deva tried BT on exhausted Kakashi and he stopped himself getting pulled with a chain. Orochimaru has senei jashu. And ain't nobody pulling Oro if he leeches into the ground.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Kyu - fair enough but why didn't nagato say "if we were not at my home village I would have soloed". 
Instead he just admitted outright inferiority to Oro.


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## Kyu (Oct 12, 2015)

> why didn't nagato say "if we were not at my home village I would have soloed".



Why would he? He had just brutally murdered the fucker and it's made obvious once we saw what Nagato was truly capable of in Konoha, he could have crushed his former mentor in a single move. Verbal confirmation isn't needed. 

At least stating Jiraiya may have won with intel highlights a kink surrounding Nagato's paths and helps sustain Jiraiya's credibility.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

At the end of the day Jiraiya > Nagato. Unless you think Naruto B & Itachi can beat the guy Itachi admitted inferiority to without even knowing Jiraiya had SM. 
                                  SM Jiraiya > Six Paths of Pain. Nagato himself said it. 
I get your point but I'm using things that were said by Itachi and Nagato about Jiraiya in Kishimoto's manga, not who I think would nuke who if they weren't in Amegakure.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2015)

Why do you hate Orochimaru so much ? 

Oro gets curbed hard.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Why would Oro get curbed. Pain said from his own mouth Jiraiya is stronger than me. Jiraiya said from his own mouth that Orochimaru is stronger than him. Itachi's wins against Oro were not legit. I made a whole thread based on this but it got locked. Read it and you'll understand why I say these things.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2015)

Everything you said is false about Orochimaru and Jiraiya and Itachi.


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## Mercurial (Oct 12, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Gedo statue couldn't beat choji or Kakashi. Why would it beat Oro.
> 
> Deva can't solo anything when pain had admitted inferiority to a guy weaker than Oro. Why didn't Gedo neg Jiraiya?



Gedo Mazo actually stomped Choji and Choza.

MS Kakashi is in a different league than Orochimaru, Kamui is just too hax and he uses it too well in the War Arc.

Pain didn't admit inferiority at all.

Because it wasn't even needed. Deva Pain barely fought against Jiraiya, he fought without even using his real powers, as Fukasaku didn't mention those when he went to Konoha. Kakashi was the first to witness them in his fight vs Pain.



IzayaOrihara said:


> Why would Oro get curbed. Pain said from his own mouth Jiraiya is stronger than me. Jiraiya said from his own mouth that Orochimaru is stronger than him. Itachi's wins against Oro were not legit. I made a whole thread based on this but it got locked. Read it and you'll understand why I say these things.



Pain just said that if Jiraiya did know his secret could have won. Hence not going to fight the corps but prepare Magen Gama Rinsho from the start and looking for Nagato to use the genjutsu on him.

SM Jiraiya textually admitted inferiority to only Human, Preta and Animal Path, saying that he was going to be killed from them. And Deva Path alone is much stronger than these Paths.

Orochimaru himself said that he couldn't beat Itachi. And manga showed Itachi stomping Orochimaru, so...



IzayaOrihara said:


> Oro is so underrated. He's stronger than the guy who was said to be stronger than six paths of pain if he had the same knowledge that Oro acquired on his former colleague Pain yet people say Deva soloes. Who has Deva ever soloed besides love struck Hinata. Deva tried to solo Konoha but Tsunade, the weakest sannin (in terms of combat) tanked CST for herself and Konoha. Deva tried BT on exhausted Kakashi and he stopped himself getting pulled with a chain. Orochimaru has senei jashu. And ain't nobody pulling Oro if he leeches into the ground.



He is not and Pain is much stronger than Jiraiya.

Tsunade could tank CST. And so what? Deva would just outperform her and put a chakra rod through her head in a 1 vs 1 fight.

Kakashi actually couldn't stop himself to be attracted with Bansho Tenin. Luckily it was a Raiton Kage Bunshin and not the original Kakashi who set up the feint to trick Pain. But he couldn't stop himself.

A jutsu used only once against Anko should be useful against Pain. I doubt that.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Everything you said is false about Orochimaru and Jiraiya and Itachi.


So statements Kishimoto wrote out are wrong? Ok.


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## Mercurial (Oct 12, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> So statements Kishimoto wrote out are wrong? Ok.



Kishimoto was the one who made Orochimaru (an arrogant person) state that he could never beat Itachi.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Gedo Mazo actually stomped Choji and Choza.
> 
> MS Kakashi is in a different league than Orochimaru, Kamui is just too hax and he uses it too well in the War Arc.
> 
> ...


So because a technique was used in a battle with Anko it's weak. Pain used CT and CST once. So it's weak. 

What's wrong with you. Leech all creation is useful. Accept it. 

And for the record Tsunade regenerates from anything pain can throw at her with the exception of soul rip and Naraka path thingy. 

As for BT, Kakshi stopped himself for getting to Pain. Orochimaru can leech so BT won't even affect him but anyway. It was used on KN4 by the way. Oro wins. If Jiraiya can so can Oro.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

I know that Sealed Oro who just lost his arms his Jutsu and two Edo Tensei bodies said "Itachi is just a dream now"


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## Bonly (Oct 12, 2015)

If Orochi had part two Edo's then he would win but by himself he can't win and with part one Edo's he can't win. Sooner or later he's gonna get soul ripped after his offense is shut down and what not.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

soul rip from human path has one feat i think - shizune, the fodder of fodder.

why do you think that attack is landing on Oro, who is either on top of manda (manda when stretched out and head high reaches 3 times gamabunta height and gamabunta is equal in size to shukaku and kurama; check the manga if you don't beleve me.) btw sorry for bad typing, its autocorrect and me typing too fast.

part 1 edo only lost due to shiki fujin. pain has soul rip but that path has that one juts while hiruzen actually fights. edos + yamata and boss snakes summoned + kokuangyo = death of pain,

nice one piece pic by th way bonly. thriller bark is it?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 12, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> So statements Kishimoto wrote out are wrong? Ok.



Kishimoto never made those statements. It is your flawed interpretation and it is false.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

oro > j man > pain
end of thread
can atlantic storm or someone please lock this now


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

scrap that, i have more to say


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

grimjow - IT WAS WRITTEN IN MASASHI KISHIMOTOS MANGA

Itachi: even if we had back up, we could never beat him (Jiraiya)
SEALED Orochimaru: Itachi is just a dream now (to kabuto) i can't get the heir to the uchiha's body now (to Jiraiya)
Jiraiya: i couldn't bring back my friend …… i want tsunade to do something to my body (Jiraiya wanted full power just to deal with armless Oro yet since he couldn't be cured Jiraiya lost b getting slammed into the ground)
Orochimaru: even now, you're still the weakest, ku ku ku …
Kisame: we could never match up to a tannin
*EMS SASUKE*: I only beat him cos of the seal on his arms
Suigetsu: Sasuke, if you bring him back! (he might get revenge on sasuke or take his body)
Orochimaru before he got his arms back: i want your body, but I'm too weak now
Orochimaru after he got his arms back: EDO TENSEI!! (Oro can summon the guy that  beat EMS Madara, a strnger version of EMS Sasuke with kyyubi, and can use that against Pain on a lower scale alongside the second fastest ninja of all time)


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 12, 2015)

i wouldn't have made this thread unless i really thought Oro had a chance
I'm done here
end of thread
(lock please)


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## Bonly (Oct 12, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> soul rip from human path has one feat i think - shizune, the fodder of fodder.



And?



> why do you think that attack is landing on Oro, who is either on top of manda (manda when stretched out and head high reaches 3 times gamabunta height and gamabunta is equal in size to shukaku and kurama; check the manga if you don't beleve me.) btw sorry for bad typing, its autocorrect and me typing too fast.



Orochi isn't gonna be ontop of Manda the entire battle so that's already a flaw but there's also the fact that Orochi has to get close to do any meaningful damage to the paths along with the fact that Deva at any point in time can use BT to pull Orochi if he's out in the open.



> part 1 edo only lost due to shiki fujin. pain has soul rip but that path has that one juts while hiruzen actually fights



Sure it has one jutsu but so does the majority of the other paths. Put them all together and the combos they can potentially do and it's a bit easier for that one path to land that one jutsu.



> edos + yamata and boss snakes summoned + kokuangyo = death of pain,



Edo's can be dealt with via soul rip, Yamata and other snakes can be dealt with the combie firepower of Deva path and Asura path, and that genjutsu might be a bit of a problem at first but he does have the raining jutsu that can sense chakra and what not along with his summonings. 



> nice one piece pic by th way bonly. thriller bark is it?



Why thank you my good sir and yup that's Thriller Bark related


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 12, 2015)

CST, CT, Asura's Laser, Soul Rip & Preta drain all kill him.

Orochimaru does have 6+ boss summon armada with his own hydra form, he can do some damage but so can Animal Path's summons, especially when Cerberus splits into multiple forms of itself. 

In the end he won't have what it takes to bring down Deva Path, who will be protected with shared vision for most of the bout and whom has speed to avoid FRS/ST it. And if he's the last one out CST/CT finish Orochimaru.

Pain high diff, if BT & Soul Rip don't get him at start battle, in which case it's no diff.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 13, 2015)

Bonly - Funny how you think attacks that hit shizune easily will hit people stronger than pain himself. Did soul rip hit Naruto? Did he even manage on Bee? No. Cos bee had help. Orochimaru has the first f*cking hokage.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 13, 2015)

DaVizWiz - BT and soul rip don't hit anyone at the start of a battle. Manda can open his jaws wide enough to swallow Gamabinta who = Kurama and Shukaku in size. Cerberus gets swallows and digested. CT does jack when Oro leeches through the rocks. Oro tanks CST even if. He needs rashomon or snake to help. Asura beam is featless and I doubt is its better than a KN4 menacing ball or even close. 

Why won't Oro be able to take down Deva when the fool took a basic Rasengan and died. The same thing can't even put down Kabuto, an A Rank medic. Oro has defied the limits of medical ninjutsu and even surpassed an S Rank medic like Tsunade in regeneration. Oro has better stuff than a standard rasengan. Such as Five elements seal, curse Mark, extending Kusanagi, boss snake

Deva has speed but he isn't faster than Manda. That's a known fact. 

Oro leeches CT and tanks CSt whether he needs to reduce it with rashomon first or not. Asura beam like I said has no feats.


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## Bonly (Oct 13, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Bonly - Funny how you think attacks that hit shizune easily will hit people stronger than pain himself.



Funny you think otherwise when it's ignores durability and goes after ones soul which people really can't train.



> Did soul rip hit Naruto?



Actually he did and he was gonna rip out Naruto's soul had it not been for Itachi so yeah



> Did he even manage on Bee? No. Cos bee had help.



He didn't even try to soul rip B, he was to busy absorbing B's chakra, sending B flying and getting ready to nuke B to hell had it not been for Itachi.



> Orochimaru has the first f*cking hokage.



That's neat and all but when restricted to part one feats being the "first f*cking hokage" means jack shit in the face of pain.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 13, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> BT and soul rip don't hit anyone at the start of a battle. Manda can open his jaws wide enough to swallow Gamabinta who = Kurama and Shukaku in size. Cerberus gets swallows and digested. CT does jack when Oro leeches through the rocks. Oro tanks CST even if. He needs rashomon or snake to help. Asura beam is featless and I doubt is its better than a KN4 menacing ball or even close.



Oro is a pain in the ass to put down via conventional method, Nagato wouldn't and isn't going to waste time nuking him when he can can more efficiently end it via Soul fuckery 

Nagato can _force_ the dog to split. Sorry Manda gets popped open like a balloon in the same way Naruto did to the boss snake with _Kage: Bunshin_ spamming.

We saw how well leeching work for Black Zetsu when he was forever trapped in CT. You have to fight the gravity of CT, something only Biju+ entities have the strength to do (even then.. Nagato can simply up the power)

CST flattens Orochimaru into paste, and no he's not using _Rashomon_ in time unless he's set the technique up before Nagato decides to use CST through Tendo. _Lazer explosion_ was going to turn Killer B's upper torso into ash (someone who's more durable than Orochimaru)... and second it's no some much it needs to be more powerful the _Mini-Bijudama_ but that fact Nagato can blindside Oro with it at point blank, when he's focused on the other Paths of Pain



IzayaOrihara said:


> Why won't Oro be able to take down Deva when the fool took a basic Rasengan and died. The same thing can't even put down Kabuto, an A Rank medic. Oro has defied the limits of medical ninjutsu and even surpassed an S Rank medic like Tsunade in regeneration. Oro has better stuff than a standard rasengan. Such as Five elements seal, curse Mark, extending Kusanagi, boss snake



Tendo survived getting ragged dolled by SM Naruto in CqC... _several times_, it's own _Shinra Tensei_ re-directed at itself, then a _Mini-Bijudama_ going off at point blank before it finally got taken down (at that point Nagato was running on fumes). 

Orochimaru is _never touching_ Tendo through 5 other paths and 8+ summons.



IzayaOrihara said:


> Deva has speed but he isn't faster than Manda. That's a known fact.



Deva Path isn't even the fastest path? All the paths where physically capable of reacting to FRS and SM Users. All of which operate at minimum on a tier speed higher than Manda. Manda is at best a meat shield to _potentially_ save Oro from get lol nuked into oblivion 



IzayaOrihara said:


> Oro leeches CT and tanks CSt whether he needs to reduce it with rashomon first or not. Asura beam like I said has no feats.



We saw how well that work Zetsu (who uses the same technique) when he was trapped in CT, and again a localized CST wipes Orochimaru, all 3 of his _Roshomon Gates_ and any landscape within 10km range off the planet



The Paths low diff this


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 14, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> Oro is a pain in the ass to put down via conventional method, Nagato wouldn't and isn't going to waste time nuking him when he can can more efficiently end it via Soul fuckery
> 
> Nagato can _force_ the dog to split. Sorry Manda gets popped open like a balloon in the same way Naruto did to the boss snake with _Kage: Bunshin_ spamming.
> 
> ...


Why are kisame Gai Ei and Kakashi above Jiraiya and Orochimaru in your tier list. Are you a troll. Kakshi shat his pants when he saw Oro. Part 2 Kakashi may have kamui but Oro has other things too. Why does CST wipe out Radhomon gates. Feats please. The last time I checked CST couldn't break the outer walls of konoha. Yet some of Orochimaru's snakes could (during attack on konoha). Read those chapters if you don't believe me. I canon one nameless snake had more power then CST, in striking force not in AOE. KN6 paw overpowered ST. Manda is stronger than those snakes and can move at high speed to get through that CST. Manda tanks. Rashomon tanks. It tanked a bijuu blast which would have vaporised the Tsunade and the Katsuyus that ignored CST. This wank is serious. Pain is a tier below Sannin it was stated in the f*cking manga. Not in so many words but based on what Nagato said Jiraiya is stronger than him, meaning Oro has to be stronger than Pain and Tsunade at least on the same level. I don't care what Zetsu did. I'm taking about Orochimaru. Because the same Zetsu got incinerated by Amaterasu which Oro and Hebi Sasuke can ignore and a clone or something got his neck snapped and his life ended by A who has way less strength than Tsunade (read chapter called sword and hatred,
I remember the name but not the number) and Oro tanked Tsunade like a boss. The bitch tanked a slowed down dispersed KN4 bijou bomb explosion. Why would Oro lose to Pain. Back to Zetsu, he uses s technique called mayfly. 

Zetsu's signature technique was Mayfly, which allowed him to merge with the ground to quickly travel to a new location, though not as quickly as Obito's space–time travelling.[24] This technique was ideal for Zetsu's function as a spy, as it erased his presence and prevented him from being sensed.

Oro uses a technique called Leech All Creation/Hiding in surface technique

With this technique, the user can phase through their surroundings, allowing them to quickly avoid an incoming attack and can travel undetected as well. The user can from this position execute a surprise attack to their enemy.

No matter how similar doesn't mean that cos Zetsu is trash Oro is too. Itachi couldn't dodge Sasukes katon dragon. Madara uses a similar Jutsu. Does this mean Itachi cannot dodge this. Not entirely. I don't give a f*ck about Zetsu. The one time I saw Oro use this he merged through rocks snakes and trees. Rocks and depending on the area trees as well, is what CT is composed of. Oro can phas through them. Even so, he has tanked things that were both said to be able to one shot a human being - KN4 beam and Tsunade punch. And with ease. What's getting trapped in a few rocks going to do. He's like goo. He uses extending kusanagi to make a whole in CT which he elongates head to stick out of other side and spits out new Oral Rebith body and falls down, summoning Manda when he gets close to ground. And yes you can summon in midair. Look at Oro in forest of death and Naruto first time r summoned Gamabunta. Manda tanks or bypasses CST like I said. That's Pain's two best techniques in the bin. Manda molests Animal Path summons. It's a size thing. Gamabunta is the same size as Gamaken in part 2. He decreased in size. At first he was as big as a bijuu and even then Manda could swallow him. Manda remained same size in part 2. Compare scans. He rapes Animal Path as a whole. Human Path dies. Naraka path dies. Doesn't matter what is used to kill them. Gogyo Fuin and/or Curse Mark followed by flying Kusanagi (see end of Oro vs Hiruzen fight). Manda runs over Asura Path like a car runs over a spider. Preta Path can't do sh*t to physical attacks and Oro has some of the best of them like his rival Jiraiya. Even more than him actually. Manda can sort something out. He's fast so will be able to do what I've said here. While this is going down Oro stays on Manda's head and preps Edo. Hashirama / Tobirama / A Guy Stronger Than Jiraiya VS Deva Path. Do I even need to explain this.  CT and CST can't be used more than once in a day otherwise Pain would have soloed Naruto with CST. Bansho Tenin is suicide. Oro comes flying in with kusanagi in his mouth curse mark on his face gogyo fuin in his hand Senei Jashu in his other hand or used Senei jashu to escape the pull. Kakshi used a chain to do it. I keep saying Kakshi. Sorry for bad typing. And ST is usless. ST doesn't kill but Tsunade punch does. Oro tanked the latter so laughs at the former. 

I think I've talked about everything. Human path doesn't get close to Oro, a guy who fights at a distance on Giant Snakes (VS Sasuke) Behind Edos (VS Hiruzen) On Snakes (VS Sannin) At A Distance while spamming snakes and using extending kusanagi and stupidly large distances (VS Naruto) in a snake form (VS Hebi Sasuke) or in Yamats Form (VS Itachi). Oro can move his soul into another body via oral rebirth. The old body dies and the new one is reborn with the soul. Kabuto said Oro had knowledge on Tobi and Pain so if human path even manages to get Oro on his knees to suck d*ck and then put his hand on his head (Only Nagato has feats for using by placing palm on chest) to pull his hair and orgasm, Oro uses oral rebirth to escape. Human path naraka path and preta path can't defend themselves from the kind of attacks Oro uses so dies quickly. 

I didn't even mention how Edos help in this fight. Edo-Madara-style-Mokuton spam is used to provoke ST from Pain. In the time lag Deva is one shorted by Hiraishingiri. Izuna couldn't react with MS precognition so Deva dies instantly. 

Any queries?


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## Joakim3 (Oct 14, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Why are kisame Gai Ei and Kakashi above Jiraiya and Orochimaru in your tier list. Are you a troll. Kakshi shat his pants when he saw Oro. Part 2 Kakashi may have kamui but Oro has other things too. Why does CST wipe out Radhomon gates. Feats please. The last time I checked CST couldn't break the outer walls of konoha. Yet some of Orochimaru's snakes could (during attack on konoha). Read those chapters if you don't believe me. I canon one nameless snake had more power then CST, in striking force not in AOE. KN6 paw overpowered ST. Manda is stronger than those snakes and can move at high speed to get through that CST. Manda tanks. Rashomon tanks. It tanked a bijuu blast which would have vaporised the Tsunade and the Katsuyus that ignored CST. This wank is serious. Pain is a tier below Sannin it was stated in the f*cking manga. Not in so many words but based on what Nagato said Jiraiya is stronger than him, meaning Oro has to be stronger than Pain and Tsunade at least on the same level. I don't care what Zetsu did. I'm taking about Orochimaru. Because the same Zetsu got incinerated by Amaterasu which Oro and Hebi Sasuke can ignore and a clone or something got his neck snapped and his life ended by A who has way less strength than Tsunade (read chapter called sword and hatred,
> I remember the name but not the number) and Oro tanked Tsunade like a boss. The bitch tanked a slowed down dispersed KN4 bijou bomb explosion. Why would Oro lose to Pain. Back to Zetsu, he uses s technique called mayfly.
> 
> Zetsu's signature technique was Mayfly, which allowed him to merge with the ground to quickly travel to a new location, though not as quickly as Obito's space?time travelling.[24] This technique was ideal for Zetsu's function as a spy, as it erased his presence and prevented him from being sensed.
> ...



I'm not even going to bother responding to you when you write a massive wall of text as a retort to my post


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## Shinryu (Oct 14, 2015)

Why dont you guys realize how broken Pein is?

Bansho Tenin + Human Path=Instant death


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 14, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> I'm not even going to bother responding to you when you write a massive wall of text as a retort to my post


You'd better not reply

Me writing a massive wall of text shows how much thought I've put in. You're incapable of such right? Just the same one liners again and again. Silly rabbit.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 14, 2015)

Shinryu said:


> Why dont you guys realize how broken Pein is?
> 
> Bansho Tenin + Human Path=Instant death


So broken
Pain should be invincible in plot free combat but that doesn't exist in the NV. It's just that sometimes the plot is too much like in Naruto VS Pain or Sakura/Chiyo VS Sasori or pretty much all of Orochimaru's fights. Strong characters get nerfed so that those who fight them have a chance and then the plot can move forward. Sasori should have killed Sakura and the old hag. Naruto should have been raped. Orochimaru should have owned every single fight he was in but he played around too much. Either that or he had PIH (plot induced handicaps [* I coined this term*]) in the form of no arms and no Jutsu and my body is giving up on me. Badass characters like the 3 I stated were embarrassed and made a fool of by members of team 7 for their character development. It's unfair but the manga is the manga and overall the good parts of the manga outweigh the bad.

And nice profile pic of Obito shinryu, another guy who would be sort of unbeatable in plot free combat.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 14, 2015)

GOODNIGHT GUYS! LOOK FORWARD TO DISCUSSING SOME MORE TOPICS TOMORROW! (I soloed this thread. Lock it now.)


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## Joakim3 (Oct 14, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> You'd better not reply
> 
> Me writing a massive wall of text shows how much thought I've put in. You're incapable of such right? Just the same one liners again and again. Silly rabbit.



coming from the guy with a shade over 100 post


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Me writing a massive wall of text shows how much thought I've put in.



Have you ever heard of the saying "quality over quantity," or is that a generational thing?


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## Joakim3 (Oct 14, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Have you ever heard of the saying "quality over quantity," or is that a generational thing?



I'm going to take a swing for the fences and say noo


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 15, 2015)

Quality over Quantity is true. CT is AOE but Orochimaru can leech through. Someone in this thread please tell me why Oro wouldn't be able to leech out CT. Its just rock. It's like saying Mei can't extinguish Madara's katon just because it's Madara. No logic. And CST couldn't scratch the outer walls of Konoha which nameless Snake Summons of Orochimaru's were able to cut through like a hot knife through butter. Soul rip isn't hitting anyone. The people in this battle are too high level for that. Edo Hashirama spams wood style to provoke a large CST and in the time lag Edo Tobitama Hiraishingiri one shots Deva. Manda deals with Animal. Oro deals with Asura. The Edos deal with the fodder paths.

Pain has quantity in the form of AOE and multiple paths but 3 of those are useless in this battle. The other 3 are beaten by Boss Snakes for Animal, Edos for Deva and Oro for Asura. Orochimaru has quality.

People say all these things that can kil Oro. Why weren't they used on Jiraiya. And the stupid thing is the things Pain used to kill Jiraiya mean nothing to Oro. Oro is immortal in more ways that one, has bigger and better summonings, wider Jutsu range, White snake powers to make up for lack of Sage Mode and The First F*cking Hokage and Second Damn Hokage to make up for no Ma & Pa support. They don't have frog song, but Orochimsru has Sakki and Hashirama has Kokuangyo. Rinnegsn is different to Sharingan. The Rinnegan doesn't give genjutsu countering abilities like Sharingsn does. Kokuamgyo will blind the Pains and they all get one shouted by blind side boss snake crush or blind side mokiuton or blind side flying thunde God slash.


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## David (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Quality over Quantity is true. CT is AOE but Orochimaru can leech through. Someone in this thread please tell me why Oro wouldn't be able to leech out CT.



In Kishi's world of horrible logic, perhaps just maybe Oro could leech out of CT.

However, logically speaking (and we should use logic where it's possible and not so complicated that Kishi would not have thought of it), if Orochimaru decided to become able to move through rocks, he'd just be pulled onto or into CT's core.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 15, 2015)

David said:


> In Kishi's world of horrible logic, perhaps just maybe Oro could leech out of CT.
> 
> However, logically speaking (and we should use logic where it's possible and not so complicated that Kishi would not have thought of it), if Orochimaru decided to become able to move through rocks, he'd just be pulled onto or into CT's core.


Why is it terrible logic. Because you hate Oro and like Pain. Oro used leeching in Part I where logic still existed in the manga.

Pulled onto CT's core, cos that's what happened to Naruto, right. He didn't escape did he?


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## Bonly (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> It's like saying Mei can't extinguish Madara's katon just because it's Madara. No logic.
> 
> Soul rip isn't hitting anyone. The people in this battle are too high level for that.



If there's no logic in saying that Mei can't extinguish Madara's katon just because it's Madara, does that mean that there's no logic in saying soul rip isn't hitting anyone just because the people are to high a level for that?


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## David (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Why is it terrible logic. Because you hate Oro and like Pain. Oro used leeching in Part I where logic still existed in the manga.
> 
> Pulled onto CT's core, cos that's what happened to Naruto, right. He didn't escape did he?



I've not liked Pain for a good while now (at least 3 years, maybe 4 or more).  Also, ad hominem.  I'm not going to call you out on something because you've been recently thought of in these parts to wank Orochimaru.  

What makes me decent at debating here is that I don't actually like any Naruto characters.

And no - Orochimaru leeching through CT is terribly illogical because of the sentence that followed my first one:



			
				me said:
			
		

> if Orochimaru decided to become able to move through rocks, he'd just be pulled onto or into CT's core.



If you had the ability to pass through all physical material and all physical material in an area was being pulled into a core, you would simply sift through all physical materials onto/into the core.  It's not like Orochimaru is a non-physical entity while leeching.


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## thechickensage (Oct 15, 2015)

Wow, IzayaOrihara.  You're acting like you're the queen of this place or something.  Clearly you're obsessed with Orochimaru.

If you give Oro the 4 hokages, then he wins easily.  Give Oro the two part 1 hokages, and he...could win probably?

Oro by himself would lose.  And I don't think he would leech through a CT.  

PS: Minato owns Oro, low diff.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 15, 2015)

Orochimaru gets owned low diff. Right. Cos that's what happened to Jiraiya, someone weaker than Orochimaru. I just ended my Itachi vs Sasori thread like this; anytime you have a VS Itachi / Minato / Nagato or Pain thread logic gets thrown out the window and fanboyism replaces it. 

Bitches is saying Oro can't leech thorough rocks. Why? He's done it before. CT isn't that great. I'm done with this bullsh*t. That's the most stupid thing I ever heard. My big bro is somewhat of an Oro hater and a Minato fan but even he wouldn't be so dumb as to say Oro can't leech through CT. end of thread. I'm moving on. People are blinded by favourite character syndrome. I heard it affects the eyes and the brain.


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Why is it terrible logic. Because you hate Oro and like Pain. Oro used leeching in Part I where logic still existed in the manga.
> 
> Pulled onto CT's core, cos that's what happened to Naruto, right. He didn't escape did he?



 And CT was no longer applying a gravitational force. To assume that Orochimaru can suddenly resist it's immense gravitational pull doesn't make sense. After all, KN6 Naruto was easily pulled in despite being able to apply a high enough force to resist Pain's Shinra Tensei.

 You could argue that Orochimaru can survive, but to be able to do anything afterwards when KN6 Naruto couldn't just doesn't add up.


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## David (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Bitches is saying Oro can't leech thorough rocks. Why? He's done it before. CT isn't that great. I'm done with this bullsh*t. That's the most stupid thing I ever heard. My big bro is somewhat of an Oro hater and a Minato fan but even he wouldn't be so dumb as to say Oro can't leech through CT. end of thread. I'm moving on. People are blinded by favourite character syndrome. I heard it affects the eyes and the brain.



I never said he couldn't leech through rocks.  I said that he'd still be affected by CT's gravitational pull.



			
				me said:
			
		

> if Orochimaru decided to become able to move through rocks, he'd just be pulled onto or into CT's core.





> If you had the ability to pass through all physical material and all physical material in an area was being pulled into a core, you would simply sift through all physical materials onto/into the core. It's not like Orochimaru is a non-physical entity while leeching.



Obviously Orochimaru can pass through rocks.  In fact, my scenario above *assumed* it:



> *If you had the ability to pass through all physical material*


or as Amol would say, reading comprehension


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## sanninme rikudo (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Quality over Quantity is true. CT is AOE but Orochimaru can leech through. Someone in this thread please tell me why Oro wouldn't be able to leech out CT. Its just rock. It's like saying Mei can't extinguish Madara's katon just because it's Madara. No logic. And CST couldn't scratch the outer walls of Konoha which nameless Snake Summons of Orochimaru's were able to cut through like a hot knife through butter. Soul rip isn't hitting anyone. The people in this battle are too high level for that. Edo Hashirama spams wood style to provoke a large CST and in the time lag Edo Tobitama Hiraishingiri one shots Deva. Manda deals with Animal. Oro deals with Asura. The Edos deal with the fodder paths.
> 
> Pain has quantity in the form of AOE and multiple paths but 3 of those are useless in this battle. The other 3 are beaten by Boss Snakes for Animal, Edos for Deva and Oro for Asura. Orochimaru has quality.
> 
> People say all these things that can kil Oro. Why weren't they used on Jiraiya. And the stupid thing is the things Pain used to kill Jiraiya mean nothing to Oro. Oro is immortal in more ways that one, has bigger and better summonings, wider Jutsu range, White snake powers to make up for lack of Sage Mode and The First F*cking Hokage and Second Damn Hokage to make up for no Ma & Pa support. They don't have frog song, but Orochimsru has Sakki and Hashirama has Kokuangyo. Rinnegsn is different to Sharingan. The Rinnegan doesn't give genjutsu countering abilities like Sharingsn does. Kokuamgyo will blind the Pains and they all get one shouted by blind side boss snake crush or blind side mokiuton or blind side flying thunde God slash.


If he was able to slip through rocks easily, he'd be dragged in to the gravity core itself.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 15, 2015)

sanninme rikudo said:


> If he was able to slip through rocks easily, he'd be dragged in to the gravity core itself.


no


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 15, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> no



 Why wouldn't he? Chibaku Tensei's gravitatonal pull encompassed multiple mountain ranges during the Pein Arc. I find it rather strange to think Orochimaru wouldn't be affected by the gravitational pull.


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## thechickensage (Oct 15, 2015)

Izaya, this is pretty hilarious.  You've said "THAT'S IT, F*** THIS THREAD" like 6 times but you keep coming back.

Sanninme rikudo said it best, bringing up a point I didn't think about.  If the gravitational force drawing people into the CT were strong enough to suck up Oro in the first place, then it would get stronger as Oro got closer to the core.  

Meaning that if the force were strong enough to pull Oro into the growing ball of rock in the first place, that if Oro liquefied himself, he would have that much harder a time resisting the jutsu.  Meaning it would be disadvantageous for him to liquefy.  

Oro gets sealed.  And he gets sealed permanently, AND more rapidly if he tries to leech through anything.

PS:  Learn to discuss things more civilly and respect differences in opinion, and your blood pressure won't be a problem later in life.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 16, 2015)

So are you are all saying that gravitational pull is stronger than Oro merging with the rocks that are getting pulled, then merges all the way to the outside? Fine then. But extending kusanagi rips through then pro uses oral rebirth to get out and slither through the hole he made, or places his hand inside the rock and summons manda, or transforms into yamata.

I just can't accept prime Oro being defatted by CT when handicapped Oro solos V2 jinchuriki Naruto, which almost got out by itself. Yes, he used 8 tails fox but Oro has 8 tails snake and 9 tails snake if you add manda in. Oro won't be put down by CT. Hashirama can make wood from any surface. He doesn't even have to be touching it so Edo Hashirama mokutons the rocks in CT and has a branch tie up Orochimaru and pull him out.

Meanwhile, Edo Tobirama Hiraishingiri one shots all the Pains while Kokuangyo is activated.

And pro doesn't liquefy himself, he merges with rocks, trees etc, and is pulled into the rock, if you wanna describe it like that.

Akatsuki was after Oro. If Pain sama could beat Oro so easily, why didn't he do so? And if Pain can beat Oro so easily, why didn't he neg diff Jiraiya, who claimed inferiority to Oro on a number of occasions, in part 1 and 2, yet felt brave enough to face Pain, a Rinnegan user.

_Nagato lost to Itachi_ who said he ws weaker than Jiraiya who admitted inferiority to *PRIME OROCHIMARU, NOT THE HANDICAPPED OROCHIMARUS WITH NO ARMS, NO HEALTHY HOST AND NO JUTSU THAT ITACHI ONE PANNELLED, YEAH, THE SAME OROCHIMARU THAT SAID, NOW ITACHI IS A DREAM OR NOW I CANT GET ITACHIS BODY ANYMORE.*

I know this'll sound crazy, *but any sannin can beat any akatsuki member*. Or at least Jiraiya and Oro can. Tsunade would struggle with Pain but Itachi is an achievable opponent for her. Read the relevant parts of this if you don't believe me:
 - why orochimaru can beat itachi
 - why orochimaru can beat itachi (includes why he can beat pain)
Link removed - why Tsunade can beat any akatsuki besides pain
and look at these scans: Link removed



Read the following paragraph _carefully_, *and read it three times to properly understand it*.


Kisame said to Itachi, "Against Konoha's Legendary Three Ninja even the 7 swordsmen and uchiha clan of konoha pale in comparison" Itachi said "yeah ..." 
HE FUCKING AGREED. He also said, "Even if we had more backup Kisame, it wouldn't change the outcome, we would only stalemate Jiraiya at best".
Itachi asaid he and kisame with backup i.e. Sasori & Deidara, were equal to or weaker than Jiraiya, who said he was weaker than Orochimaru.
Itachi beat Orochimaru twice. The first time Orochimaru was unhealthy and weak since he needed a host body. Also Oro had no killing intent. The second time, Oro emerged from Sasuke's heaven seal curse mark in yamata, and kishi did this on purpose for the plot so Oro wouldn't have a way to dodge Totsuka, cos when Oro came out of the same curse mark, but from Anko, he came out in human form, and kishi knew orochimaru would have been able to dodge so for the plot, and to satisfy his own lust for an uchiha body, Kishi made Oro emerge in an immobile form where he couldn't dodge. Orochimaru said twice he was waker than Itachi, but he said "now, Itachi is a dream" and "now i can no longer have the body of the heir to the uchha clan". The keyword is NOW. Now as in right now my arms are sealed, i am sick and i have no jutsu. Prime Orochimaru can defat Itachi. I once wrote an entire essay on it. And he can definitely beat the six paths of pain if he can beat jiraiya who nagato admitted inferiority to.

I know I'm going of topic with this itachi stuff, _but answer me this, everyone in this thread:_
*What in Masashi Kishimoto's manga suggests that Itachi (alive itachi, not the imaginary 'healthy' or fanfic 'prime') Uchiha can defeat Prime Orochimaru (all the evidence i posted suggests the complete opposite, yet itachi masturbaters ignore it) that doesn't have sealed arms, has killing intent, a healthy body, the same Edos he had when he fought Hiruzen (war arc edos would just be overkill), is not immobile, is fighting in a battle where Kishi doesn't favour the Uchiha as his favourite characters, and has all of the jutsu he showed in his fights with Team 7, Hiruzen, Sannin, KN4 Naruto and Hebi Sasuke (the guy who Itachi lost to, and the guy that said he would never have beaten Orochimaru if he wasn't handicapped Link removed)?*


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## Mider T (Oct 17, 2015)

Joakim3 said:


> coming from the guy with a shade over 100 post



Obviously you don't know this guy's tenacity in posts.


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## LostSelf (Oct 17, 2015)

If she's so sure about Orochimaru beating Pain by himself, Manda beating red Gai, or beating the Gokage... and we're the ones that are incredibly wrong...

Why trying so hard to debate with blind Itachi fanboys like us?


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## LightningForce (Oct 17, 2015)

Izaya/Joseline, have you even read the manga? Less than 16-yr old Itachi DEFEATED a healthy, prime Oro with just Sharingan genjutsu. Scale it to P2 Oro (no war arc Edo's) and Itachi, the outcome is still the same.


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## LostSelf (Oct 17, 2015)

OT: I actually think Yoko closed the thread (Not noticed that it was another thread, but it doesn't matter, it was about the same user, same Orochimaru and Pain) with his answer. And i'm proud of him for answering seriously here. Jiraiya was having a lot of troubles in SM taking on 3 paths and had to resort to guerilla tactics. The 6POP together in an open place would be a disaster for Jiraiya.


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