# Who can beat Goku?



## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Still fairly quiet in-verse, but he at least got a bit of a upgrade since the last thread I've made of him (and also the last one I've seen of him)



If you want to discuss who can beat DB Goku, you can, as I was thinking of reviving my old "Who can beat Goku" topic, if UD doesn't kill me first.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 20, 2015)

Chichi


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

In-verse or out-of-verse?


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Come now, that's way too obvious.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> In-verse or out-of-verse?



Any. I want to see where his current limit is.


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## Hachibi (Nov 20, 2015)

>DB Goku

DB Superman ofc

No one else can keep up with "keep breaking his limits"


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 20, 2015)

DB yang can take goku.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

When I say DB Goku, I hope you guys know I'm referring to Dragon Ball.

Cause tired joke is tired.


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## Hachibi (Nov 20, 2015)

Fuck, then anyone Skyfather and above (and some below with Hax)?


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## Iwandesu (Nov 20, 2015)

any haxed low tier gs like death mask and afrodite have the means to kill him
he finally kills aldebaran,tho


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## Mider T (Nov 20, 2015)

Nobody,  duh.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Nobody,  duh.



I know. Sai Goku is too powerful for his own good.


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## puolakanaho (Nov 20, 2015)

we had a thread about this some time ago concerning dc characters that can beat beerus.


post crisis superman,tangent superman,flash,captain atom,atom(i dont think we ever agreed on this one) martian manhunter,fate, and just about anybody stronger than these guys/owns more haxes...


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## Huey Freeman (Nov 20, 2015)

the common cold


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## JesusBaby (Nov 20, 2015)

Anybody with a laser gun.


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## Stunna (Nov 20, 2015)

When are we talking?

'Cause if it's End of GT Base Goku, absolutely no one.


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> Any. I want to see where his current limit is.



The Presence? 
In DC, he'd beat anyone below planetary AFAIK
In Sailor Moon...depends. How good is his reactive adaptation? Could he adapt to being turned to stone?
It seems very hard to judge because alot of his limits don't seem to be known.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Stunna said:


> When are we talking?
> 
> 'Cause if it's End of GT Base Goku, absolutely no one.



Any level you want. Could also be a composite.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> The Presence?
> In DC, he'd beat anyone below planetary AFAIK
> In Sailor Moon...depends. How good is his reactive adaptation? Could he adapt to being turned to stone?
> It seems very hard to judge because alot of his limits don't seem to be known.



His reactive isn't really defined. Best he did was physical (a chi blast that hurt him greatly, didn't do practically anything the next time). But due to him healing/immortality, it could be potentially higher than its shown. As you said, he has a lot of unknown limits atm (that plot-device limiter)

As for turning into stone, probably not. Least not as of now (he's shown no resistance to that type of power yet)


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> His reactive isn't really defined. Best he did was physical (a chi blast that hurt him greatly, didn't do practically anything the next time). But due to him healing/immortality, it could be potentially higher than its shown. As you said, he has a lot of unknown limits atm (that plot-device limiter)
> 
> As for turning into stone, probably not. Least not as of now (he's shown no resistance to that type of power yet)



How he would do in magical girl series


*Spoiler*: __ 



In terms of Sailor Moon, He'd reach a bit of an interesting point with Kunzite who has City Level DC but a Star Level Forcefield and ti doesn't like Kunzite freezing him would work very well. Might stalemete there unless Kunzite runs out of stamina and drops his forcefield.

Above that are a bunch of Star Level People so I kinda think he might stop there.

Wedding Peach:
Alot of the Lesser are Demons still have Speed and might have the hax to do it. He definitely stops around Demon Lords and Beings with the Power of the Sacred Somethings

Tokyo Mew Mew:
Don't know how Mew Power would affect him. Probably stops at Mew Ichigo or Deep Blue

Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch:
Has a Stat Advantage against everyone there. Might lose to Mikaru or the Aqua Regina due to hax.

Magic Knight Rayearth:
Beats everyone but Mokona


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## Fang (Nov 20, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> Still fairly quiet in-verse, but he at least got a bit of a upgrade since the last thread I've made of him (and also the last one I've seen of him)
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to discuss who can beat DB Goku, you can, as I was thinking of reviving my old "Who can beat Goku" topic, if UD doesn't kill me first.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

The link, I've realized, didn't have his entire repertoire listed, so you might not be getting the proper understanding of the boy. I agree with your Sailor Moon assessment, but Wedding Peach?

Can you explain the differences from the anime/manga (I've seen the entire anime, and nothing there save Reine Devilla would pose a problem)


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Damn Fang. Just damn


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## KaiserWombat (Nov 20, 2015)

So wait...

...is this supposed to be a catch-all Goku topic, or do you want it limited to Saiyuki Goku, Keo?

Because the thread title as it is is mighty fucking confusing, lol


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## TobiSan (Nov 20, 2015)

Mxy and Batmite.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

KaiserWombat said:


> So wait...
> 
> ...is this supposed to be a catch-all Goku topic, or do you want it limited to Saiyuki Goku, Keo?
> 
> Because the thread title as it is is mighty fucking confusing, lol



You don't see through my strategy Kaiser?


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> The link, I've realized, didn't have his entire repertoire listed, so you might not be getting the proper understanding of the boy. I agree with your Sailor Moon assessment, but Wedding Peach?
> 
> Can you explain the differences from the anime/manga (I've seen the entire anime, and nothing there save Reine Devilla would pose a problem)



Wedding Peach is different in the manga to a pretty good degree, although I don't recall the anime too well.

Speedwise even Ghosts and fodder are Massively Hypersonic+ able to be a threat to every pair of lovers on the entire planet. Celeste, a High-Class Angel, was able to quickly fly from the Angel World in another Star System to Earth (and she did this without even her memories so it must be a really short distance to them). Also I don't know how fast this but a low class Demon, Demon Tornado was essentailly evil winds that moved fast enough to create a vacuum.

DC/Durabilitywise: Most people are in the Large Building Range as even Ghosts and Early Wedding Peach could survive the force of the Dimension Ring which was tearing apart the entire School building. However The Sacred Somethings have Planetary Scale Energy Manipulation and together they lit up through Dimensions the Demon World, the Human World, and the Angel World. Demon Lords get scaling to this and The Super Fighter Angels also are scaled to this. Any Angel, like Limone, can crate a barrier that can briefly hold off the power of Demon Lords.

Also, hax is abundant. To give you an idea, Pluie trapped Momoko and Limone in an Anti-Angel Dimension. To save them Yuri and Hinagiku tore through dimensions in order to get to them. They did this with their normal attacks. And this was early in the series.


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## xenos5 (Nov 20, 2015)

puolakanaho said:


> we had a thread about this some time ago concerning dc characters that can beat beerus.
> 
> 
> *post crisis superman*,tangent superman,flash,captain atom,atom(i dont think we ever agreed on this one) martian manhunter,fate, and just about anybody stronger than these guys/owns more haxes...



I don't think everyone was in agreement about the bold (especially if Katsuargi's speed calc is used).


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

xenos5 said:


> I don't think everyone was in agreement about the bold (especially if Katsuargi's speed calc is used).



It mostly came down to how effective (if at all) you thought Post-Crisis Superman's haxes would be against Beerus. I think it would work pretty well but that's honestly really arguable to the point that I wouldn't want to argue that position.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Wedding Peach is different in the manga to a pretty good degree, although I don't recall the anime too well.
> 
> Speedwise even Ghosts and fodder are Massively Hypersonic+ able to be a threat to every pair of lovers on the entire planet. Celeste, a High-Class Angel, was able to quickly fly from the Angel World in another Star System to Earth (and she did this without even her memories so it must be a really short distance to them). Also I don't know how fast this but a low class Demon, Demon Tornado was essentailly evil winds that moved fast enough to create a vacuum.
> 
> ...



I can't remember the anime at this moment either, but yeah, seems a bit higher in power (though some of the abilities you've mentioned happened at some point or another, likely on a lesser scale)

Goku wouldn't have too much issue outside of speed (a real issue as he has nothing quantifiable... least not worth noting) 

Unless you can tell me of some more hax he shouldn't be able to overcome (your example is more effective against non-regen characters)


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> I can't remember the anime at this moment either, but yeah, seems a bit higher in power (though some of the abilities you've mentioned happened at some point or another, likely on a lesser scale)
> 
> Goku wouldn't have too much issue outside of speed (a real issue as he has nothing quantifiable... least not worth noting)
> 
> Unless you can tell me of some more hax he shouldn't be able to overcome (your example is more effective against non-regen characters)



Other Haxes in the Series
Wedding Peach can absorb even demonic energy into her (although absorbing too much demonic energy will kill her)
Love Waves can Purify People removing Hostile Intentions and Evil Powers. It can be done by all Angels
Limone transformed the Super Love Angels into their civilian states
Aphrodite can erase or alter peoples' memories
Selece shows soul manipulation
There is a lot of interdimensional teleportation


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Other Haxes in the Series
> 
> Wedding Peach can absorb even demonic energy into her (although absorbing too much demonic energy will kill her)



Okay


> Love Waves can Purify People removing Hostile Intentions and Evil Powers. It can be done by all Angels



This power I'm familiar with. Yes, Momko and her broken Ai no Wabo (I swear I always hear it like this  )


> Limone transformed the Super Love Angels into their civilian states



I think he did this in the anime also, not too sure though


> Aphrodite can erase or alter peoples' memories


Did this to Celeste's husband right?


> Selece shows soul manipulation



Okay


> There is a lot of interdimensional teleportation



Alright

So from all that, at best, maybe the Love Wave would work, but only to pacify him. Doubt you can remove his powers as greater things can't.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Nov 20, 2015)

Stunna said:


> When are we talking?
> 
> 'Cause if it's End of GT Base Goku, absolutely no one.



Goku Time never ends


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## Imperator100 (Nov 20, 2015)

> This power I'm familiar with. Yes, Momko and her broken Ai no Wabo (I swear I always hear it like this  )


Super Broken.



> Did this to Celeste's husband right?


Did this to ALOT of people really. I was surpised how willing the Queen of the Angels was to f around with people's memories.




> So from all that, at best, maybe the Love Wave would work, but only to pacify him. Doubt you can remove his powers as greater things can't.



Those are just the Good Guy's haxes. I don't recall all the Bad Guy's haxes but there was also Nocturne of the Darkness who could brainwash people and I think Demon Lords had a spell that erased people from Existence. The Devil Queen Reine also IIRC could merge dimensions or something?


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

CD we're limiting it to no Time Is Now since we want an actual debate here.


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## Keollyn (Nov 20, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Super Broken.



Damn, I now want to do a series rewatch. 



> Did this to ALOT of people really. I was surpised how willing the Queen of the Angles was to f around with people's memories.



Oh wow, Aphrodite sure doesn't mess around.



> Those are just the Good Guy's haxes. I don't recall all the Bad Guy's haxes but there was also Nocturne of the Darkness who could brainwash people and I think Demon Lords had a spell that erased people from Existence. The Devil Queen Reine also IIRC could merge dimensions or something?



Erasing from existence is a good start. For now, Goku has no known resistance to it (he likely will, as his verse has one of the most broken forms of existence erase present within the series).

Merging dimensions is nice too.


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## Toaa (Nov 21, 2015)

^which is?


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## Keollyn (Nov 21, 2015)

Which is what?


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## Vivi Ornitier (Nov 21, 2015)

> death mask


[youtube]t_PMgpRSGcs[/youtube]



GG


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## Atem (Nov 21, 2015)

Oh, Keollyn.

You're a genius.


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## TobiSan (Nov 21, 2015)

Galactus and Thanos.


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## King Kakarot (Nov 21, 2015)

According to the wiki Goku would kill Thanos if Thanos doesn't use his hax abilities


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## xenos5 (Nov 21, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> Galactus and Thanos.



Galactus yes.

Base Thanos tho? 



I don't think with those stats it'd be out of current Goku's range to beat him.


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## xenos5 (Nov 21, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> According to the wiki Goku would kill Thanos if Thanos doesn't use his hax abilities



Pretty much. 

Out of the hax abilities mentioned on the wiki though...

Thanos's mind hax seems to be willpower dependent judging from the description. And i'd argue Goku has a fairly large level of willpower like Vegeta so he should at least be able to resist it for a time.

Goku has IT so teleportation won't be that helpful for Thanos.

But the Forceblock was able to restrain Odin and Power Gem Thor so it'd probably work on Goku if he were hit with it.


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## Iwandesu (Nov 21, 2015)

> : Super speed, strength, durability, regeneration (Destroyed by Drax down to his bones, regenerated fully and combat ready within 2 seconds), *immortality (type 4 - banned from Death)*, *cosmic energy manipulation*, creation of forcefields, *powerful telepathic abilities and telepathic defenses*, psychometry, *transmutation*, can heal others, teleportation, *time manipulation*, energy projection/absorption, *limited reality warping, also highly resistant against reality warping*, *dimensional *travel and *manipulation*, cosmic awareness/senses, can survive in space,* ilusion creation,* can encase targets in a nearly impenetrable block of solid energy, telekinesis, mastery of armed and unarmed combat, genius - level intellect, can use various forms of *magic*, has many cybernetic, genetic, and mystical enhancements to his body and his armor,* can absorb other beings to become more powerful,* outside the realms of Chaos and Order, can kill immortal beings.


all of the bolded could most likely fuck with goku chances in one way or other
also deathmask and even surfer are still a thing no need for thanos


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## Yagami1211 (Nov 21, 2015)

Uuh, Seiya ?


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## SF latif (Nov 21, 2015)

Simon and seiya


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## Keollyn (Nov 21, 2015)

Savan said:


> Oh, Keollyn.
> 
> You're a genius.


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## Azzuri (Nov 21, 2015)

The Shrike?


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## Darth Nihilus (Nov 22, 2015)

lol Keollyn 

You do this every year


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## PsyInsti (Nov 22, 2015)

Itachi Uchiha, genjutsu 2op


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## Xadlin (Nov 22, 2015)

Axe Cop? but Goku is not a bad guy tho


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## Ultra Instinct Vegito (Nov 22, 2015)

Z, and Tenchi from Tenchi Muyo.  Divine , omega saints, and any Olympian god from Saint Seiya.  Dark Schneider and anyone above him from Bastard. Also Goku from Dragon Ball can beat that goku.


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## Keollyn (Nov 22, 2015)

Darth Nihilus said:


> lol Keollyn
> 
> You do this every year



Got Goku on the EA production line yo.



Saturno said:


> Also Goku from Dragon Ball can beat that goku.



For now. Not like they both aren't running with similar level of power already.


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## TobiSan (Nov 22, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> According to the wiki Goku would kill Thanos if Thanos doesn't use his hax abilities


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## Iwandesu (Nov 22, 2015)

so base thanos is multigalaxy ?


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## Darth Nihilus (Nov 22, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> Got Goku on the EA production line yo.





I've actually tried starting Saiyuki a few times (actually got around to it, forgot which chapter I stopped at), but I don't know exactly where to start to get a good sense of the series itself.

Where should I start?


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## King Kakarot (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanos according to the wiki doesn't have the durability to contend with Goku


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## Keollyn (Nov 22, 2015)

Darth Nihilus said:


> I've actually tried starting Saiyuki a few times (actually got around to it, forgot which chapter I stopped at), but I don't know exactly where to start to get a good sense of the series itself.
> 
> Where should I start?



The preferred order would be: 

Gensomaden (or whichever one is just titled Saiyuki) > (Gaiden) > Reload > (Gaiden) > Ibun > Blast

I put Gaiden in parenthesis because it can be started at either spot. Reload is the best of Saiyuki thus far, so you may want to go straight into it from Saiyuki

None of the series are longer than 9 volumes, so it isn't like you have a lot to read through, if length is a possible deter for you.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 22, 2015)

Not really sure what the laughing gif is for as I don't recall base Thanos being multi-galaxy. 

Then again I don't really give a damn about Marvel, so maybe I'm wrong.


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## Galo de Lion (Nov 22, 2015)

Peryite solos


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## TobiSan (Nov 22, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Not really sure what the laughing gif is for as I don't recall base Thanos being multi-galaxy.
> 
> Then again I don't really give a damn about Marvel, so maybe I'm wrong.




If you don't really give a damn about Marvel, why are you even replying to me? Just because a post exists doesn't mean you have to reply to it.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 22, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> If you don't really give a damn about Marvel, why are you even replying to me? Just because a post exists doesn't mean you have to reply to it.



Because I wanted to know what the laughing gif was for when I haven't ever heard of base Thanos being multi-galaxy, which is where he'd need to be in order to take on Goku without hax. 

Not sure why it bothers you so much that someone replied to your post.


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## TobiSan (Nov 23, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Because I wanted to know what the laughing gif was for when I haven't ever heard of base Thanos being multi-galaxy, which is where he'd need to be in order to take on Goku without hax.
> 
> Not sure why it bothers you so much that someone replied to your post.



Goku isn't even getting past his shields, which Galactus had to put effort into breaking. Thanos has thrown down with Odin who is multi-galaxy-universal.

Thanos tanked a blast from both Silver Surfer and Odin while just standing still.

Pimp handed In-Betweener.

Thanos also Pimp slapped Marvelman(I think, can't remember) from Saturn to Earth.

Goku can't win against the Pimp Hand, he doesn't even need the TP.

This is how the fight ends, also Thanos is not happy you questioning him.


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

This post is too early, we still do not know If he reach Beerus level, Wiss level, surpass them, but for now all characters that can beat or give real trouble or beat  Superman.


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> Goku isn't even getting past his shields, which Galactus had to put effort into breaking. Thanos has thrown down with Odin who is multi-galaxy-universal.
> 
> Thanos tanked a blast from both Silver Surfer and Odin while just standing still.
> 
> ...



A punch that can Shake a now known normal Universe according with  the stament of Jaco, sure would affect Thanos.


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## TobiSan (Nov 23, 2015)

Lord Beer said:


> A punch that can Shake a now known normal Universe according with  the stament of Jaco, sure would affect Thanos.



You mean the combined power of Beerus and Goku when they hit each other? It went stronger the further it got, it didn't even destroy Earth AFAIK. Would be kinda useless against somebody who is next to you. Specially against shields that can tank fed Galactai for a few seconds.


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> You mean the combined power of Beerus and Goku when they hit each other? It went stronger the further it got, it didn't even destroy Earth AFAIK. Would be kinda useless against somebody who is next to you. Specially against shields that can tank fed Galactai for a few seconds.



Would not? Well for what it seens, is a feat of strenght between Goku and Beerus, without Ki, kind of a showing up: this is my strenght, if you considered like a tsunami. it still had and center force that expand, to go not only a Galaxy, but the Universe it has a force, is also clear that Goku was trying to cancel the strenght of Beerus and fail 2 times.

Base of ki blast, Beerus and Goku was Universal too, only, again ( and convenient) they were cancel too.


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

I am not saying that Goku beat Thanos, but Goku sure will give him a fight, waiting also for how strong will he end in Super, as Beerus or as Wiss or beyond.


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## Iwandesu (Nov 23, 2015)

>tanking surfer 
>being demolished by galactus
>being relevant to a character whose punches shakened The universe 

Albeit odin feat might be worthy looking


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

Well I repeat, I am not saying that Goku beat Thanos, but he will give him a fight, you are saying no, fair enough, Goku SS God is =  to a 50-70%% holding back Beerus, Goku is in his way to reach him, and is not imposible to Think that he could pass Wiss too, as is he has pass all his previous Master.

I think the laughing pict you put was  ok previous DB super, when We knew Goku was powerful but lack feats to prove, now is confirmed that first Form Freeza is casually a buster planet in relaxing mode, so I remain by my statment that Goku will give Thanos a good fight.


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## Iwandesu (Nov 23, 2015)

Nah im pretty sure thanos merks
But thats because of hax 
Albeit tanking odin is a multigalaxy+ feat so i would like to see what The fuck he is talking about
Cus afaik odin>thanos


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## Flashlight237 (Nov 23, 2015)

If you're talking DB Goku, probably someone who has Moon+ DC in power or higher (e.g. Kaguya and Carbuncle) with Hypersonic speed (at least equivalent to Speedy Gonzale's travel speed in the Looney Tunes Show (~Mach 25 according to his marathon run))

Now modern Goku... Being generous, I'd say it'd take something around Solar System+ power (e.g. Gravity Beetle w/ outliers and Sailor Galaxia (pretty sure she's small galaxy level or higher)) with at least FTL speed (Goku is certainly faster than Gotenks)

I'd give it to Kaguya for the former and Galaxia for the latter in terms of who's the weakest who could beat Goku.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanos has taken a shot from an irked Odin and lived. TBH I don't think Odin could kill Thanos at this point. You'd actually have to be stronger than Death to kill him cause she actually banned him from dying. He's probably worse than Alucard in this regard.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Nov 23, 2015)

Thanos' lifeless corpse without shields endured a galaxy buster from Galactus and he was only bloodied a bit by a petaFoe grade black hole. 10 gigaFoe is enough to destroy our galaxy. You do the math


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## ShadowReaper (Nov 23, 2015)

Took many to count, literally.


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## TobiSan (Nov 23, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> >tanking surfer
> >being demolished by galactus
> >being relevant to a character whose punches shakened The universe
> 
> Albeit odin feat might be worthy looking



Thanos lasted few seconds against Fed Galactai. That is 10000000000000x more seconds than Goku would tank that blast for.
Also again the "shaking universe" feat is the combined power of Beerus and Goku which went stronger further, meaning it would be totally useless against somebody next to Goku AFAIK from the video I have seen.


This is what Thanos would look like while Goku works his moves.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Nov 23, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> Thanos lasted few seconds against Fed Galactai. That is 10000000000000x more seconds than Goku would tank that blast for.



That's stupid, people last against characters they have no business lasting even a micro second against all the time, its practically a trope 
Not saying Goku could beat Thanos or not, but that's not a particularly good argument, especially in comics, where a street leveler can last against a herald.


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> Thanos lasted few seconds against Fed Galactai. That is 10000000000000x more seconds than Goku would tank that blast for.
> Also again the "shaking universe" feat is the combined power of Beerus and Goku which went stronger further, meaning it would be totally useless against somebody next to Goku AFAIK from the video I have seen.
> 
> 
> This is what Thanos would look like while Goku works his moves.



Are those attacks Universal? Multigalaxies?


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## Lord Beer (Nov 23, 2015)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> That's stupid, people last against characters they have no business lasting even a micro second against all the time, its practically a trope
> Not saying Goku could beat Thanos or not, but that's not a particularly good argument, especially in comics, where a street leveler can last against a herald.



This.

First, I know Dead do not want Thanos, so "nobody" can kill him; taking that in consideration, I said Current Goku was at SS God 50% what Beerus is, Beerus is capable of destroy the Universe at 50-70% of his power, Is been stated now many times, so I said this thread it was made too early, we do not know if Goku will reach Beerus 100%, or Wiss, and in this level, Goku is more powerful that the Bomb of antimatter that Drax the Destroyer put in Thanos chest.


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Nov 23, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> Also again the "shaking universe" feat is the combined power of Beerus and Goku which went stronger further, meaning it would be totally useless against somebody next to Goku AFAIK from the video I have seen.



I thought it had been concluded the shockwaves never got stronger and more like they displayed their full power the further they got from Goku's nullification, since Elder Kai's statement was when he didn't know what Goku was trying to accomplish. Even then that explosion in episode 13 still engulfed the whole universe.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 23, 2015)

Oomura Yoshitsugu said:


> *I thought it had been concluded the shockwaves never got stronger and more like they displayed their full power the further they got from Goku's nullification, since Elder Kai's statement was when he didn't know what Goku was trying to accomplish.* Even then that explosion in episode 13 still engulfed the whole universe.



That's pretty much what it was. When Goku perfected the technique after 2 strikes he was able to nullify the shockwaves completely rather than make them weaker at the point of impact.


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## King Kakarot (Nov 23, 2015)

Also the narrator flay out saying they're hitting each other with the power to destroy the universe,and Goku nullifying Beerus attack that was the combination of both the KHH and his atom attack that was previously showm about to destroy the universe with a punch.


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## Cooler (Nov 23, 2015)

People are still downplaying BOG feats then...


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## Iwandesu (Nov 23, 2015)

No one is discussing bog feats,tho 
unless you want to call super first arc as BOG arc


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## Cooler (Nov 23, 2015)

iwandesu said:


> No one is discussing bog feats,tho
> unless you want to call super first arc as BOG arc



Well technically it was a battle of Gods


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## Keollyn (Nov 23, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Thanos has taken a shot from an irked Odin and lived. TBH I don't think Odin could kill Thanos at this point. You'd actually have to be stronger than Death to kill him cause she actually banned him from dying. He's probably worse than Alucard in this regard.



UD posted in my thread without threatening to abort it? 

Did someone hack your account?



King Kakarot said:


> Also the narrator flay out saying they're hitting each other with the power to destroy the universe,and Goku nullifying Beerus attack that was the combination of both the KHH and his atom attack that was *previously showm* about to destroy the universe with a punch.



lolNarrator, give it up, they're multi-galaxy for now. Stop trying to peddle universal King Kakarot.


----------



## King Kakarot (Nov 23, 2015)

I wasn't arguing for universal levels I was just repeating what the narrator said.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 23, 2015)

Alright then, ignore what I said. I apologize.


----------



## TobiSan (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> I wasn't arguing for universal levels I was just repeating what the narrator said.



You said they are hitting each other with universe destroying punches, that is not what the narrator said. Also I didn't see any Universes being destroyed.


On Topic: Nobody has yet showed me anything from Goku that can even tickle Thano's force fields. Fed Galactai had to put exert his energies to take it down as stated by Galactai himself. Galactus's energy has been used before to destroy multiple universes. Galactus is Universal+ easily and is one of the cosmic entities.


----------



## Tom Servo (Nov 24, 2015)

Would like to point out that the shockwaves don't work like normal shockwaves, they gained in power somehow as they spread out meaning the punches themselves wouldn't be that powerful but the shockwaves are which makes no sense.


----------



## God Movement (Nov 24, 2015)

For the last time. They did not gain power. Goku was cancelling them partially from the first punch. His cancellation range was obsolete so it gave the impression that further away from the starting point they were stronger.

They do behave like normal shockwaves and their punches are >= the shockwaves. In actuality their punches are >= the combined energy of both of their ki blasts which is even higher than the initial shockwave punches.


----------



## TobiSan (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> For the last time. They did not gain power. Goku was cancelling them partially from the first punch. His cancellation range was obsolete so it gave the impression that further away from the starting point they were stronger.
> 
> They do behave like normal shockwaves and their punches are >= the shockwaves. In actuality their punches are >= the combined energy of both of their ki blasts which is even higher than the initial shockwave punches.



None of this makes any sense, since when does Goku has some power canceling ability? If they both hit each other as strong as they can, the shockwaves should be strong from the start.

This is what should happen if you replace the building with an universe, if they are universe busting attacks. Though I have yet to seen any scans of universes being destroyed. As much as I have heard about that feat, they were close to Earth which was unharmed which meant that the universe did not destroy.


----------



## Lord Beer (Nov 24, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> You said they are hitting each other with universe destroying punches, that is not what the narrator said. Also I didn't see any Universes being destroyed.
> 
> 
> On Topic: Nobody has yet showed me anything from Goku that can even tickle Thano's force fields. Fed Galactai had to put exert his energies to take it down as stated by Galactai himself. Galactus's energy has been used before to destroy multiple universes. Galactus is Universal+ easily and is one of the cosmic entities.



There is not feat to show you, because as how DB is, the point is Goku cancel Beerus and Beerus cancel Goku power, they cancel each other attacks, capable tto destroy the universe, that in my opinion, will have a destructive force enough to break Thanos barrier in Theory, but how we will know if both don?t belong to the same Universe? as far as I can know, Drax disintegrated Thanos with an antimatter Bomb ( he comeback because"death do not wnat him") with the whole Guardians of the Galaxy members watching, so I said, Goku has just to match and Attack like that, and base on the feats with his fight with Beerus, it is posible, and if is not, he still is in his way to surpass Beerus, and maybe Whiss too, so , like i said in my first post here, this thread was made to early, same like the death battle sups vs Goku did.

But make no mistake, if the thread is, currently who can beat Goku, Thanos and Odin could, and everybody in that level of power.

In DC all the ones that can give Superman a big fight could(without kriptonite or magic), and of course the ones that beat superman could.

It is posible that people with mental powers could beat Goku, the only posiblity is that when the Saiyans are prepare, they have the mental power to resist or control, ( like Vegeta to Babidi, he allow been control just to get stronger)

 and of course, Dark Sneider, top  tiers in Sailor moon, top tier in Saint Seiya, etc

But, people are still downplaying Goku, Beerus and Whiss that is for sure.

[YOUTUBE]2EVRVsk5Pj8[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 24, 2015)

Since Super. Watch the actual episodes before you debate about a character. What GM said is correct. 

It took Goku 3 attempts before he could perfect the technique. During the first 2 attempts the best he could do was weaken the shockwaves at the point of impact hence why everything close to them wasn't destroyed. By the 3rd attempt he was able to perfect it and could nullify the shockwaves completely, which resulted in no shockwaves at all.


----------



## Cooler (Nov 24, 2015)

Shockwaves getting stronger as they go out makes no sense. It's easy to infer that as we know Goku was actively trying to cancel out Beerus' blows that they only had a partial effect.


----------



## TobiSan (Nov 24, 2015)

If you throw 2 grenades at each other, they don't cancel each other out. If a punch has the power to destroy the Universe, now when 2 of those clash the universe would be gone, lights out, gg, game over.

Shockwave is pressured air when the explosion moves faster than sound. There is no way to cancel shockwaves by punching. 

Drax was specially made to kill Thanos, he is like Kyrptonite to Thanos. Like I said before Thanos's shields at full power took an effort from Fed Galactus to over power, Galactus Universal+ power, far above what Goku has.


Some people are downplaying Goku on purpose because most Goku fans way overplay Goku. He is not an universe buster. He hasn't busted any universes, it's pure speculation. Goku doesn't get a pass from no feats and suddenly being an universe buster. I can accept that he is a star buster and above, but there are limits on how far you can go on pure speculations.

Also you are only using 1 highest feat for Goku and suddenly bring PIS against Thanos that has happened, if you take high end feats take them for both characters.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 24, 2015)

TobiSan said:


> If you throw 2 grenades at each other, they don't cancel each other out. If a punch has the power to destroy the Universe, now when 2 of those clash the universe would be gone, lights out, gg, game over.
> 
> Shockwave is pressured air when the explosion moves faster than sound. *There is no way to cancel shockwaves by punching. *
> 
> ...



Well that's exactly what Goku did regardless of whether you like it or not. If you're going to debate a character then actually watch the content about that character. 

And we don't have him at universal level. We have him at multi-galaxy+. This has already been widely debated and accepted.

As GM said, you literally have no clue what you're talking about.


----------



## TobiSan (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> Just from your first sentence I already know you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> So I'll take my leave.



So the point of this post was collecting postcount? Cya.


----------



## TobiSan (Nov 24, 2015)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Well that's exactly what Goku did regardless of whether you like it or not. If you're going to debate a character then actually watch the content about that character.
> 
> And we don't have him at universal level. We have him multi-galaxy+. This has already been widely debated and accepted.
> 
> As GM said, you literally have no clue what you're talking about.



I have no clue what I am talking about yet I see no arguments from you, Goku fans can't see him losing to somebody, soon you will calculate him to be Omnipotent. There are literally people here saying he has Universal punches what ever that means.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Nov 24, 2015)

You don't considering you continue to deny what actually happened in the episode just because it doesn't fit with what you think is logical.

Like GM, I'll take my leave as it's abundantly clear you've no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Tom Servo (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> For the last time. They did not gain power. Goku was cancelling them partially from the first punch. His cancellation range was obsolete so it gave the impression that further away from the starting point they were stronger.
> 
> They do behave like normal shockwaves and their punches are >= the shockwaves. In actuality their punches are >= the combined energy of both of their ki blasts which is even higher than the initial shockwave punches.



You typing this while your day job in Baskin Robbins cuz that was like 31 different flavors of assumptions you just threw out.

What you said literally makes no coherent counter to the fact that the shockwaves were gaining power as they got larger and Goku had nothing to do with it, he just stopped the shockwaves altogether by hitting Beerus punches in a directly parallel manner.


----------



## Sherlōck (Nov 24, 2015)

I can beat Goku. All I need is an injection.


----------



## Cooler (Nov 24, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> You typing this while your day job in Baskin Robbins cuz that was like 31 different flavors of assumptions you just threw out.
> 
> What you said literally makes no coherent counter to the fact that the shockwaves were gaining power as they got larger and Goku had nothing to do with it, he just stopped the shockwaves altogether by hitting Beerus punches in a directly parallel manner.



What's more likely?

A) There were some weird affects from their punches never seen before that caused the shockwaves to behave in an opposite to usual manner.

B) The imperfect technique Goku used to fully cancel out the blows was able to nullify some of the impact nearest Goku giving the impression of growing stronger shockwaves.

Option B seems like the most plausible and is the smallest assumption.


----------



## Tom Servo (Nov 24, 2015)

Cooler said:


> What's more likely?
> 
> A) There were some weird affects from their punches never seen before that caused the shockwaves to behave in an opposite to usual manner.
> 
> ...



The most likely scenario is you're going by a sheer assumption that's contradicted in a universe where physics and consistency are thrown out on a daily routine.


----------



## Cooler (Nov 24, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> The most likely scenario is you're going by a sheer assumption that's contradicted in a universe where physics and consistency are thrown out on a daily routine.



How about the fact that these sorts of clashes have never caused this type of effect before? Surely we'd see it on a smaller scale.


----------



## Tom Servo (Nov 24, 2015)

Cooler said:


> How about the fact that these sorts of clashes have never caused this type of effect before? Surely we'd see it on a smaller scale.



These are not like any other characters in the series. Again it's an unknown type of chain reaction effect.

It makes just as much sense as Goku spontaneously gaining regeneration and Buu screaming a wormhole open or Beerus moving so fast that he actually clones himself.


----------



## God Movement (Nov 24, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> You typing this while your day job in Baskin Robbins cuz that was like 31 different flavors of assumptions you just threw out.
> 
> What you said literally makes no coherent counter to the fact that the shockwaves were gaining power as they got larger and Goku had nothing to do with it, he just stopped the shockwaves altogether by hitting Beerus punches in a directly parallel manner.



So you're still top 5 worst posters in the section. Good to know.


----------



## Tom Servo (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> So you're still top 5 worst posters in the section. Good to know.



You're the one people are labeling as the new Phenom Brigade.

Do you have an actual argument or is that the bets you got?


----------



## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

You would think the omniscient narrator would put an end to the nonsense but nope some people think they know more than the narrator himself.



"Hurr dur how come the universe doesn't explode then"

Concentrated attacks are a thing just like how despite Galactus himself putting effort into destroying Thanos shields isn't destroying everything around him.

You also got the narrator saying this



It's pretty obvious at this point that Goku is at nigh universal levels


----------



## SF latif (Nov 24, 2015)

just going to throw this out: 

- Galactus only hit Thanos with a smal beam and thanos ended up begging for his life and its a High-end for thanos

- Odin B!tch slapped thanos and there is nothing thanos could do

- goku was matching the exact output of Beerus to cancel out the shockwaves which would destroy the universe. So the energy was half and half 

(Note: i`m not trying to argue goku will beat thanos)


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## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> You would think the omniscient narrator would put an end to the nonsense but nope some people think they know more than the narrator himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So why did I apologize to you again? Fuck off with that King Kakarot.

Last time I humble myself to a known wanker. 

Newsflash: Due to them not actually having said feats, they are not at that level outside of *hype*. That is the premise of statement without feats/precedence.


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## God Movement (Nov 24, 2015)

But the whole idea is the explosion was shown on panel and spanned across the length of the entire universe. So there is direct evidence of sufficient size for "universe busting" (rendering the universe a vacuum). Power of course was displayed through the shockwaves visually and the blast was nullified by Beerus so there was no collateral to the explosion, hence, the universe was not "destroyed".

Word of God supports the notion that the explosion which is confirmed to be universal in _scope_ had the collateral force to do the damage it was hyped up to be capable of. 

We literally accept Athena's Exclamation to hold Big Bang level power due to a combination of *feats and statements* or as you say *hype*.


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## Fang (Nov 24, 2015)

Tom Servo said:


> You're the one people are labeling as the new Phenom Brigade.
> 
> Do you have an actual argument or is that the bets you got?


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> But the whole idea is the *explosion was shown on panel and spanned across the length of the entire univers*e. So there is direct evidence of sufficient size for "universe busting" (rendering the universe a vacuum). Power of course was displayed through the shockwaves visually and the blast was nullified by Beerus so there was no collateral to the explosion, hence, the universe was not "destroyed".
> 
> Word of God supports the notion that the explosion which is confirmed to be universal in _scope_ had the collateral force to do the damage it was hyped up to be capable of.
> 
> We literally accept Athena's Exclamation to hold Big Bang level power due to a combination of *feats and statements* or as you say *hype*.



Before I continue, can you link this scene. I've never witness this one before.

P.S. And no, Athena Exclamation would not be considered hype by me, as you just noted that it has feats alongside statements. Hype is the absence of feats or anything that gives the notion of said level of power previously. Basically, building upon nothing.


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## God Movement (Nov 24, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> P.S. And no, Athena Exclamation would not be considered hype by me, as you just noted that it has feats alongside statements. Hype is the absence of feats or anything that gives the notion of said level of power previously.



It has the word of god (narrator), Athena's banning of the move which alludes to its power (Whis confirmation) and the confirmation of it being a concentrated move which removes any counter-argument of it not actually blowing up a universe (universal explosion range).


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## Fang (Nov 24, 2015)

The main reason we accept AE is because we already have confirmations of things like Saga warping space-time on a universal level and Gold Saints having insane feats like creating their own dimensions and Mu erasing stars along with what the upper tiers can do; we didn't accept it simply because Athena forbade the technique.


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## God Movement (Nov 24, 2015)

Fang said:


> The main reason we accept AE is because we already have confirmations of things like Saga warping space-time on a universal level and Gold Saints having insane feats like creating their own dimensions and Mu erasing stars along with what the upper tiers can do; we didn't accept it simply because Athena forbade the technique.



This is true.

Just as a side note, unrelated to your post. In DB we have the shockwaves which on panel were shattering planets/stars which further supports the explosion having sufficient collateral power.


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## Fang (Nov 24, 2015)

I don't know how that correlates though

I mean you had the Libra weapons sealed as well  but even they failed to do shit against Poseidon's pillars or Hades' Wailing Wall


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

God Movement said:


> Turn your adblock off or you won't be able to watch
> 
> 9:00 to 10:00
> 
> ...



Umm GM, wouldn't that be the luminosity I heard about being the reason they are mutli-galaxy? Because if it actually did reach them, then that would kinda hollow out the universe, thus eliminating the need for any debate on this matter to begin with.

That surely wasn't an actual explosion reaching them.

P.S. You can watch it with adblock still on. A little trick back-doors that bullock.



God Movement said:


> It has the word of god (narrator), Athena's banning of the move which alludes to its power (Whis confirmation) and the confirmation of it being a concentrated move which removes any counter-argument of it not actually blowing up a universe (universal explosion range).



Narrator isn't infallible, and Whis doesn't really change anything in this regard (he'd be superseded by the narrator anyway) . It really isn't the issue of it being right or wrong, but the fact that it can only be considered hype since no actual feat of universal has been shown, or ever been performed, by similar power. This is the premise of hype, to *preview *a level of power. Sure they can be that powerful, but until they actually demonstrate it, it stays within the realm of hype.

Unless things around here has changed with regards to statements, I can't really keep up with the OBD anymore.


----------



## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> So why did I apologize to you again? Fuck off with that King Kakarot.
> 
> Last time I humble myself to a known wanker.
> 
> Newsflash: Due to them not actually having said feats, they are not at that level outside of *hype*. That is the premise of statement without feats/precedence.


You're a special kind of stupid aren't you 

>Showing proof from the show let alone the narrator's own words is now wanking 

Lmfao

Edit:

There attack was going to destroy everything(backed up by the narrator) only for the attack to be nullified by Beerus what mire so people want?


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> You're a special kind of stupid aren't you
> 
> >Showing proof from the show let alone the narrator's own words is now wanking
> 
> Lmfao



Known wanker means you've only wanked one thing?

And here I'm the special kind of stupid.


----------



## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

How am i a known wanker in the first place?

All I did was post proof that anyone with some reading comprehension could understand none of anything that I posted was my opinion it was backed up from things in the show

That's not wank it's facts.


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## SF latif (Nov 24, 2015)

the statements were made regarding thier fights. we see stars/planets getting destroyed, we are only shown a small representation of whats happening across the universe. The show is about the them and their fights after all. and that explosion was made due goku + beerus energy combined which threatened everything in the universe.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> Edit:
> 
> There attack was going to destroy everything(backed up by the narrator) only for the attack to be nullified by Beerus what mire so people want?



How about a feat? The most they did was a shockwave that propagated the universe (not remotely universal) and luminosity (not universal), yet they're universal?

Okay sure, let's give DB a pass at something we wouldn't do for any other series.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> How am i a known wanker in the first place?
> 
> All I did was post proof that anyone with some reading comprehension could understand none of anything that I posted was my opinion it was backed up from things in the show
> 
> That's not wank it's facts.



Still don't remember saying you wanked this feat (though believing they're universal from just a statement isn't high on the list)

And what got me the most in that post of mine is that you just said you didn't state they were universal but providing the statement from the narrator, then go on to say "It's pretty obvious at this point that Goku is at nigh universal levels"

Fuck wank, you're a hypocrite.


----------



## gabies (Nov 24, 2015)

marquis of death can beat him


----------



## SF latif (Nov 24, 2015)

if goku is worth of half universe wouldn`t that make him Nigh "universal" tho


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## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

Yeah Let's ignore what the narrator himself has to say on how strong Beerus and Goku are.

That same shockwave would have destroyed the universe + dimensions on the 3rd strike that's nigh universal 

And the narrator who again knows more than any other character in the show flat out tells us the universe is threatened to be destroyed from their clash only to have Beerus nullify everything.

It's not that DB gets a pass it's when DB gets feats like this and WOG says how strong they are we get people doing mental gymnastic on things that have already been confirmed.

Edit:

Fucking episodes before the fight Supreme Kai was worried what would happen to the universe if Beerus fought seriously and King kai saying Beerus could destroy anything in the universe.

This shouldn't come as a surprise that during his fight the universe was about to be destroyed.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

SF latif said:


> if goku is worth of half universe wouldn`t that make him Nigh "universal" tho



Yeah, let's go with that.


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## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

I never said Goku himself was universal 

He can't be because it's his and Beerus feat


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## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> *Yeah Let's ignore* what the narrator himself has to say on how strong Beerus and Goku are.



Can we? If you did, tell me what you have? 



> That same shockwave would have destroyed the universe + dimensions on the 3rd strike that's nigh universal



Would? Okay, now tell me what it did?



> And the narrator who again knows more than any other character in the show flat out tells us the universe is threatened to be destroyed from their clash only to have Beerus nullify everything.



But did it happen?



> It's not that DB gets a pass it's when DB gets feats like this and WOG says how strong they are we get people doing mental gymnastic on things that have already been confirmed.



Feats like what? Statements =/= feats. Are you missing this very basic idea?

No feats performed match the statement made, thus making it hype material. This isn't really a hard concept to grasp. But let's go with that. Don't mind universal Sai Goku at this point.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

King Kakarot said:


> I never said Goku himself was universal
> 
> He can't be because it's his and Beerus feat



I never said you did either. You read post with so much care, you know that?

Your quote was

"It's pretty obvious at this point that Goku is at nigh universal levels"

Edit: my mistake, one of my post did say universal, but in my defense, I didn't really feel like typing "nigh" all the time. I did know you said nigh-universal when I was commenting. Blame it on doing two things at once.


----------



## King Kakarot (Nov 24, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> Can we? If you did, tell me what you have?


That characters in the show are afraid of the fate if the universe if Beerus fights seriously and another saying he can destroy anything in the universe.



> Would? Okay, now tell me what it did?



The 3rd shockwave was canceled out by Goku it would have destroyed everything if Goku didn't cancel it out.





> did it happen?



Wouldve happened if Beerus didn't nullify the energy



> Feats like what? Statements =/= feats. Are you missing this very basic idea?
> 
> No feats performed match the statement made, thus making it hype material. This isn't really a hard concept to grasp. But let's go with that. Don't mind universal Sai Goku at this point.



Statements from omniscient narrator's hold more weight than anyone in the show.Not a hard concept to grasp.It's not hype because the feat was being carried out until someone interfered.


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## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

The same song and dance. It eludes you to the idea that this is considered hype (at its very core, this fight was nothing but hype, as it gave us an indication of what to expect later)

It's almost sad that you feel impatient enough that you need to label them this high right now. Any sensible person know that they'll be actually doing this later anyways, so what's the rush?


----------



## SF latif (Nov 24, 2015)

Multi-galaxy+ for goku and beerus shouldn`t be Far-fetched tbh. mind you toriyama said he likes to use certain characters to explain other. and last i checked MG+ is accepted here.


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

Of course, no one is arguing they aren't multi-galaxy. From my understanding, the luminosity alone gave them that level. 

It's this jumping the gun with this whole universal stuff because narrator. Let the feats catch up (which it likely will, since these things tend to go in that path)

Anyways, I've talked about DB Goku longer than I desire in this thread. I effectively bow out from the discussion and switch back to Saru Goku, as he's the true god here.


----------



## SF latif (Nov 24, 2015)

and of course by any means it was not directed at you. it was directed at people like "TobiSan" who still denys MG+ goku despite many elaboration and hypes given in the series.


----------



## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Nov 24, 2015)

Well this thread looks to be going fun places now...


----------



## Reznor (Nov 24, 2015)

Like, they did the best they could to show universe destroying power without actually destroying the universe and had explicit explanations about why it did what it did.

The explanation stands up fine with the whole Magic A = Magic A. If you don't like the idea of Magic A in the first place, don't take part in discussions about DBZ.


----------



## Dudebro (Nov 24, 2015)

Sooo what happened to my idea of someone trillions of times faster than light, below galaxy level and has soul/mind?...Or space/time hax?...I thought I was on to something there...

Those are literally the only requirements here.


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## Keollyn (Nov 24, 2015)

Reznor said:


> Like, they did the best they could to show universe destroying power without actually destroying the universe and had explicit explanations about why it did what it did.
> 
> The explanation stands up fine with the whole Magic A = Magic A. *If you don't like the idea of Magic A in the first place, don't take part in discussions about DBZ*.



Not seeing how liking or disliking something has anything to do with partaking in a discussion. If one doesn't present their argument in bias, they can condemn the topic for all we should care.

And spare me Rez, they could have done better if they want to correlate the feats with their statement. Not my fault they aren't imaginative.


----------



## Reznor (Nov 25, 2015)

Keollyn said:


> Not seeing how liking or disliking something has anything to do with partaking in a discussion. If one doesn't present their argument in bias, they can condemn the topic for all we should care.
> 
> And spare me Rez, they could have done better if they want to correlate the feats with their statement. Not my fault they aren't imaginative.



My comment was directed at the 2 grenades analogy.


----------



## God Movement (Nov 25, 2015)

I think I'll leave the DB discussion until next time.



Fang said:


> I don't know how that correlates though
> 
> I mean you had the Libra weapons sealed as well  but even they failed to do shit against Poseidon's pillars or Hades' Wailing Wall



Correlates to what? Proof of AE's power?


----------



## puolakanaho (Nov 25, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Well this thread looks to be going fun places now...



that statement seems to ring true on just about any dragon ball thread here...


----------



## Dudebro (Nov 25, 2015)

I'm for multi galaxy here but I'm just gonna step into this for a sec.

Technically their first clash was already "universal" in the sense that all of the physical matter in the universe was going to be destroyed. The shockwave itself reached Supreme Kai's planet. Not just the light.

Goku was nullifying the shockwaves literally since the first punch. They were explaining this in the episode itself. You only wouldn't notice this if you didn't watch the episodes. He just kept fucking up until the third blow. And so it only looked like the blows were getting stronger and that those three strikes were necessary. Add this to all of the claims from the only people in the verse who could possibly know that this type of thing would happen plus the narrator, plus the episode title itself and you've got a pretty convincing sounding argument.

TL;DR They came as close to showing off "universe level" power as they could without actually destroying a universe and they went out of their way to cover literally all of their bases with a nice little PIS icing.

To assume DB wank is kind of jumping to conclusions by itself. We have accepted less here for other fictions. And its clear why some people can be easily mislead to instantly call this one universe level. I would have too if I didn't spend more time on it. Unless your an oldhead the OBD itself has gotten alot more confortable with how it handles these things.


----------



## Iwandesu (Nov 25, 2015)

> Unless your an oldhead the OBD itself has gotten alot more confortable with how it handles these things.


Moon level rocket raccon is still bs,Tho


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## Qinglong (Nov 25, 2015)

Destroying the universe also involves space time 

Pretty sure this was noted


----------



## Keollyn (Nov 25, 2015)

Reznor said:


> My comment was directed at the 2 grenades analogy.



What I said about the unimaginative still stands, though a quote would have been nice.



puolakanaho said:


> that statement seems to ring true on just about any dragon ball thread here...



Interestingly, this wasn't even originally a DB thread, but I knew what I was doing


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## Reznor (Nov 25, 2015)

> What I said about the unimaginative still stands,


 No disagreement they could have explained a few things better, but it just doesn't matter when it comes to this kind of thing. Not liking and not accepting the explanation are two separate things.



> though a quote would have been nice.


 It was the last post before I had refreshed.
I can say I'm sorry or edit the post if you want.


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## Radical Edward (Nov 26, 2015)

Thor easily


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## xenos5 (Nov 26, 2015)

Radical Edward said:


> Thor easily



How? Judging by his profile  even the Godblast might not be enough to beat current Goku.


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## jkujbkjhffd (Nov 26, 2015)

Radical Edward said:


> Thor easily



Goku would flick thor in his base form let alone god form.


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## xenos5 (Nov 27, 2015)

Pandaemperorix said:


> Goku would flick thor in his base form let alone god form.



Goku absorbed the God Ki into his base form so he no longer transforms into the god form (He has Super Saiyan Blue instead)

Though if you're referring to Base Goku without God Ki then fuck no. He's small star level+ scaling above 1st form Frieza (who had a new feat that was calced at small star+). But that doesn't compare to Thor.


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## SF latif (Nov 27, 2015)

goku`s current base is above his SSG counter part


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## Unlosing Ranger (Nov 27, 2015)

Goku is still the same, just went up a few tiers in everything. Still doesn't deal with hax well.


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