# Dragon Ball Z verse vs Supernatural verse



## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

All of DBZ and Dragon Ball Super versus all of Supernatural minus God and Darkness.

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

Just Z?

well... dbz is p-much allergic to hax, and has no substantial way of dealing with the fuckton of incorporeals in SPN
of course they outmatch is raw power and speed but that may not actually matter


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## Zatanna (Jul 4, 2016)

Archangel snaps his fingers.

Goku explodes.

Snaps his fingers again.

Rewinds times to before Goku exploded.

Snaps hi fingers again and Goku explodes.

In all seriousness, you at the very least need time manipulation to compete with supernatural Lol.


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Now hear me out. I know Supernatural is hax and all that, but I have a really tough time seeing anything from Supernatural that can beat this guy.



Remove his internal organs? Majin Buu regenerates.
Give him terminal lung cancer? Majin Buu regenerates.
Dimensional BFR? Majin Buu can bust out of sealed dimensions.

And I think Majin Buu has a good chance of turning the Archangels into a bunch of jawbreakers. 
I mean even though their physical bodies are just meatsuits, angels have been affected by attacks similar to transmutation.

When Jessie turned Castiel into a toy, Castiel wasn't able to escape out of that one. It was just his meatsuit that was turned into a toy, but Castiel's true form was apparently also trapped. So if Majin Buu turns Castiel into a chocolate bar, it is highly possible that Castiel will not be able to escape from that.

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Zatanna said:


> Archangel snaps his fingers.
> 
> Goku explodes.
> 
> ...



Archangels have never destroyed anyone with star level durability.

Time looping can work on Majin Buu, but Majin Buu can blitz before that.

Also only Archangels have shown the ability to time loop.  The Angels would still be unable to affect them. Even if DBZ stops at the Archangels, they should still be able to clear up to the angels.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2016)

I don't think Buu is gonna be able to solo this. He does take a good chunk though.


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

Majin Buu is the only feasible problem
but time hax takes care of that.

or gabriel turns him into a car.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> When Jessie turned Castiel into a toy, Castiel wasn't able to escape out of that one. It was just his meatsuit that was turned into a toy, but Castiel's true form was apparently also trapped. So if Majin Buu turns Castiel into a chocolate bar, it is highly possible that Castiel will not be able to escape from that.


wouldn't bank on that as:
1. that was a greatly depowered Cas
2. That was less transmuattion and more reality warping
3. anyone with his own reality warping (so high tiers and above) can reverse that


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2016)

Since it's already been settled that Supernatural wins this I guess it could be interesting to discuss the farthest Buu could possibly get before dying a horrible death. The version of Buu being used changes things as Fat Buu is a dumbass that won't resort to bloodlusted tactics from the start. Super Buu would probably start off with the human extinction attack, and Kid Buu would probably start off with planet burst both of which could catch a good bit of characters off guard especially considering the speed of the attacks.


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

considering angels can bring back their vessels so long as they aren't separated atom from atom and scattered around the cosmos...

this is a stalemate at worst

Reactions: Like 1


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> considering angels can bring back their vessels so long as they aren't separated atom from atom and scattered around the cosmos...
> 
> this is a stalemate at worst



Yeah. Even if Buu attempts absorbing the vessels the Angels would probably just Override Buu's consciousness and he'd pretty much be their new vessel.


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

technically if they all nuke him at once he's toast

that shit phased Amara for a moment


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> technically if they all nuke him at once he's toast
> 
> that shit phased Amara for a moment



Yeah. That'd definitely work. I recall the Amara vs DBS verse thread and from the feats mentioned for her there, there's no way he's surviving an attack that phased her.


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## Fang (Jul 4, 2016)

Problem SPN has with dealing with DBZ is:

- hilarious difference in speed
- hilarious difference in durability
- multiple more "broken" abilities have never worked or shown operating against people that are moon to star level in DC or durability so it might be a stretch
- molecular combustion is definitely not going to happen; we've seen DBZ characters use their ki to break TK and counter certain attacks 

Some of the beings who are incorporeal might survive but lack the DC to do anything.

Reactions: Like 5


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## God (Jul 4, 2016)

And exactly what speed feats does Supernatural have that puts then even close to Dragon Ball?

Secondly, timestop doesnt mean anything when DB has Hit.


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

I could swear the OP didn't originally include Super


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## xenos5 (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> I could swear the OP didn't originally include Super



They didn't. "Last edited: Today at 2:32 PM"


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> I could swear the OP didn't originally include Super



I thought DBZ by definition included Super, so I just edited the OP to clarify.


Deer Lord said:


> technically if they all nuke him at once he's toast
> 
> that shit phased Amara for a moment


Amara hasn't really shown any impressive durability feats though. 



xenos5 said:


> Yeah. Even if Buu attempts absorbing the vessels the Angels would probably just Override Buu's consciousness and he'd pretty much be their new vessel.


Why's that? The angel's haven't really shown any impressive mental fuckery feats. I mean even mook DBZ characters like Kami are capable of possession. 



Deer Lord said:


> wouldn't bank on that as:
> 1. that was a greatly depowered Cas
> 2. That was less transmuattion and more reality warping
> 3. anyone with his own reality warping (so high tiers and above) can reverse that



Well Jessie achieved the same effects as transmutation via reality warping. I still think it's possible for transmutation to work on Angels. The only angels with impressive reality warping powers were the Archangels, so if any lower tier angel were turned into a jawbreaker, it might work.

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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

Someone who tango with God is more than enough for buu


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> Someone who tango with God is more than enough for buu



But the Archangels were a threat to her, seeing as how God needed their help, and the Archangels have only shown multi-continent level DC through hype.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Fang (Jul 4, 2016)

Problem isn't SPN haxs, its the fact that relatively speaking the verse lacks speed feats and certain broken powers are relatively no limits fallacy arguments. Also Zachariah is well below Raphael yet created an alternate timeline casually. Same with Balthazar.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Deer Lord (Jul 4, 2016)

Considering Amara can no-diff lucifer that is flat out wrong

they were used for stalling untill God whipped out a way to lock her.


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Fang said:


> Problem isn't SPN haxs, its the fact that relatively speaking the verse lacks speed feats and certain broken powers are relatively no limits fallacy arguments. Also Zachariah is well below Raphael yet created an alternate timeline casually. Same with Balthazar.



All he did was transport Dean to the future of an alternate Timeline.
I mean even Trunks can do something like that.

Reactions: Dislike 5


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 4, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> Considering Amara can no-diff lucifer that is flat out wrong
> 
> they were used for stalling untill God whipped out a way to lock her.



I guess. So combined Host of Heaven stomps.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Jul 4, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> All he did was transport Dean to the future of an alternate Timeline.
> I mean even Trunks can do something like that.



He created the alternate timeline, he didn't simply transport Dean there. Try again.

Reactions: Like 4 | Dislike 1


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## Blocky (Jul 4, 2016)

Is making a timeline is almost like making a universe?
Or just doing Time Travel stuff to make one?


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## Nevermind (Jul 4, 2016)

What's to stop Whis or Vados from just throwing a punch or Zeno from blinking?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fang (Jul 4, 2016)

If Super is involved then anyone who can wipe out universes is going to end everything but Death, God, and the Darkness.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Azzuri (Jul 4, 2016)

This topic turned out to be more interesting than I thought it'd be.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SSBMonado (Jul 5, 2016)

All of the god and god+ tiers should clear.
God and the Darkness are arguably above universe level in dura, but so what? All of the DB top ends could pay their taxes, go out for a drink and learn Swedish before God or the Darkness got an attack out. With a gap this big, they could simply chisel SPN to death.
Oh and Zeno babyshakes everything, naturally.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jul 5, 2016)

Zatanna said:


> Archangel snaps his fingers.
> 
> Goku explodes.
> 
> ...



You can't talk about stomps, you put Zatanna vs HST .

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Zatanna (Jul 5, 2016)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> You can't talk about stomps, you put Zatanna vs HST .


How is that a stomp lol? 

Anyways I wasn't talking about a stomp I was talking about Supernatural top tiers vs Goku.


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## Galactus The Destroyer (Jul 5, 2016)

Sounded like a good fight(apparently SN might have actually won judging from the comments)
until super was included


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 6, 2016)

Also wasn't it stated that the light from a thousand supernovae could kill Darkness? That seems like less than universal durability

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## trance (Jul 6, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



>Doubts SPNverse's hax can fuck up Buu
>Guy has little to no resistance against nearly of all them

kek

Anyway, DBS likely has greater amounts of raw power but nothing else is notable about them relative to SPN.


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## Galactus The Destroyer (Jul 6, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> >Doubts SPNverse's hax can fuck up Buu
> >Guy has little to no resistance against nearly of all them
> 
> kek
> ...


Likely? SSG tier and up stomps

 DBZ only was a better fight


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Jul 31, 2016)

Sorry to bump this thread, but I call BS on the Darkness being universal. I mean she was having trouble against 10 mook demons and 5 witches. If the Darkness really were universal, fodder like that shouldn't be able to give her trouble. And Heaven's combined smiting was NOT a universe busting attack. LOL not even close. City level at best. And according to Metatron, it took God ages to create the universe. It's not like he just created the universe in one go. If he only created the universe by creating one planet at a time, that doesn't equate universe level.
Also even if God is considered universal, why is Death considered universal? Is it because Death stated that he would one day reap God? Well he turned out to be wrong. He would never reap God. We have no idea if Death actually had the power to kill God or not. And considering God was able to seal Death, there is absolutely no reason to believe Death is on the same level, or stronger than God.



Kyouko said:


> >Doubts SPNverse's hax can fuck up Buu
> >Guy has little to no resistance against nearly of all them
> 
> kek
> ...



The only hax that Majin Buu can be affected by is time looping, and only Gabriel has shown that ability. None of the other hax in supernatural are very impressive.

Smiting and the finger snap exploding thing are NLFs. They've never destroyed someone with planet level durability.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Finalbeta (Aug 1, 2016)

Only chance for Z is to speedblitz


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## Amol (Aug 1, 2016)

Gabriel solos.
He puts Vegeta in bondage porn movie then tells Chichi that Goku cheated on her with Bulma.
Then he proceeds to steal Buu's candy while impersonating Gohan.
This whole discussion is utterly pointless. If you think things like raw strength or speed or durability matters against reality warpers who also happens to be primordial entities for whom concept of time and space has very little meaning then you frankly lack common sense.
These archangels can literally stop time making every dbz person a statutes to pick them one by one.
They are corporeal mystic beings. Destroying their vessels does not matter in slightest to them.
SP verse wins extremely easily.


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## Gordo solos (Aug 1, 2016)

DBZ isn't by itself here tho. DB Super is a part of it


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Amol said:


> Gabriel solos.
> He puts Vegeta in bondage porn movie then tells Chichi that Goku cheated on her with Bulma.
> Then he proceeds to steal Buu's candy while impersonating Gohan.
> This whole discussion is utterly pointless. If you think things like raw strength or speed or durability matters against reality warpers who also happens to be primordial entities for whom concept of time and space has very little meaning then you frankly lack common sense.
> ...


Time Stop? Everyone Hit and above is immune to time stops. The only people who have a chance against Buu are Gabriel and up.

Time and space dont matter to SPN characters? Since when? They have teleportation and time travel. That doesn't mean they are above time and space. SPN characters are not hard at all to kill. Even the strongest beings like Death can be bound by magic. I don't see any reason to believe Buus candy beam cant affect SPN characters. Not to mention they have absolute shit for speed and durability, as even ordinary humans can take them.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Fang (Aug 1, 2016)

Hit isn't immune to timestops.


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## Toaa (Aug 1, 2016)

we need zeno feats


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## xenos5 (Aug 1, 2016)

yujiro said:


> we need zeno feats



The statements made about him by a reliable source (Whis) explaining how he destroyed 6 universes at once in the past are already enough for him to win this.


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Fang said:


> Hit isn't immune to timestops.


He isn't? I thought he was? Isn't his ability time stopping? If he can move when he stops time, shouldn't he be able to no sell time stop?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Aug 1, 2016)

If you think Hit's time jump ability compares to time fuckery shown in Supernatural and act as if that will give him immunity to it you are sorely mistaken


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## Nep Heart (Aug 1, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> He isn't? I thought he was? Isn't his ability time stopping? If he can move when he stops time, shouldn't he be able to no sell time stop?



That just means the user has excellent enough control over their own power to induce temporal stasis not to freeze their own flow of time, but doesn't necessarily equate to the user having temporal resistance automatically.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> That just means the user has excellent enough control over their own power to induce temporal stasis not to freeze their own flow of time, but doesn't necessarily equate to the user having temporal resistance automatically.


Well Goku should still be resistant to time stop then.


Fang said:


> If you think Hit's time jump ability compares to time fuckery shown in Supernatural and act as if that will give him immunity to it you are sorely mistaken


Supernatural only has 1 time stop feat IIRC.

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Also I would like to point out, many angels died from their fall from Heaven to Earth. Dying from hitting the ground is 100% physical damage. Immunity to all damage my ass. If anything, the DBZ characters can fling the angels at the ground at hypersonic speeds, and kill the angels from the impact.

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## Stermor (Aug 1, 2016)

pretty sure buu would just scream at stuff long enough.. if he can bust trough dimensions then he can likely also bust whatever dimensional form angels have..

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Stermor said:


> pretty sure buu would just scream at stuff long enough.. if he can bust trough dimensions then he can likely also bust whatever dimensional form angels have..


Well busting through dimensions isn't really a quantifiable feat.
It's not something that can actually be used in combat, considering Buu never used this ability in combat.
I still think transmutation would work on the Angels though.

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## SSBMonado (Aug 1, 2016)

The hell is time stop gonna do after any given DB top tier puts their fist through the angel's head?
Even if the angel intends to use his time fuckery as soon as the bell rings, he'd be dead literally a thousand times over before the sound of the proverbial bell reached his brain.


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## Fang (Aug 1, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Well Goku should still be resistant to time stop then.



Not to the time stops in Supernatural he's not.



> Supernatural only has 1 time stop feat IIRC.



Wrong. The first episode alone that introduced Reapers shows multiple time stops. Muses and Angels can also stop time as long as they want, while creating, destroying, and moving alternate timelines at their will and having temporal and cosmic awareness, like what Balthy did when he made a new timeline when he saved the Titanic.



SSBMonado said:


> The hell is time stop gonna do after any given DB top tier puts their fist through the angel's head?



The Angels true forms are incorporeal.



> Even if the angel intends to use his time fuckery as soon as the bell rings, he'd be dead literally a thousand times over before the sound of the proverbial bell reached his brain.



What can the average fighter in DBS or Z do against actual reality warping, mind fucking, or soul fucking? Not that I'm really debating Supernatural can win given the speed difference but conventional firepower doesn't counter more exotic and broken powers SPN has on DB.

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## Stermor (Aug 1, 2016)

actually wouldn't buu eventually notice those shiny little stabby things angels have ? and just grab one start make angel kebab.. 

or method 2 would be to just scream until reaches whatever dimensions heaven is in and start throwing angels out?


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## Fang (Aug 1, 2016)

That's a textbook no limits fallacy if there was one in this thread


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 1, 2016)

Fang said:


> Not to the time stops in Supernatural he's not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Time Stop is time stop. If Goku has shown to be able to move when time is stopped then time stop isn't doing shit. 

SN doesn't really have any decent mind fuckery feats. Even moods like Kami have possession and every Z fighter is a powerful telepath. All the mind fuckery in SN has amounted to memory manipulating individual humans. Souls in DBZ are just as durable as physical bodies, seeing as how Goku soul was capable of fighting normally with no trouble. SN characters can't destroy souls with planet level durability.

The angels true forms are supposedly incorporeal but many angels died from falling from Heaven. It wasn't the Angel Fall spell that killed them. They died from hitting the ground after falling from the sky. Dying from hitting the ground is 100% physical damage. So yes Angels can be hurt by physical damage. The Z fighters hurling the Angels at the ground at hypersonic speeds should cause significant damage.

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## Keollyn (Aug 1, 2016)

What.... am I reading?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tonathan100 (Aug 1, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Time Stop is time stop. If Goku has shown to be able to move when time is stopped then time stop isn't doing shit.


Okay...



> SN doesn't really have any decent mind fuckery feats. Even moods like Kami have possession and every Z fighter is a powerful telepath. All the mind fuckery in SN has amounted to memory manipulating individual humans.


Evidence for all of that?



> Souls in DBZ are just as durable as physical bodies, seeing as how Goku soul was capable of fighting normally with no trouble. SN characters can't destroy souls with planet level durability.




Again, do you have any actual evidence of Goku's soul being able to fight normally with no trouble? Because if I remember correctly, Goku had to be given his body when he was dead for him to interact with the living.

And the "durability" of a soul is completely irrelevant because souls are considered non-corporeal by default, which makes them nigh-impossible to destroy except by attacks that directly affect the soul. 

In fact, limiting a soul to having Planet Level durability or whatever actually makes it *easier* to destroy, because souls are otherwise incapable of being destroyed by brute, conventional, physical force or energy.



> The angels true forms are supposedly incorporeal but many angels died from falling from Heaven. It wasn't the Angel Fall spell that killed them. They died from hitting the ground after falling from the sky. Dying from hitting the ground is 100% physical damage. So yes Angels can be hurt by physical damage. The Z fighters hurling the Angels at the ground at hypersonic speeds should cause significant damage.


Nice downplay. Got proof of that?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Aug 1, 2016)

Fang said:


> Not to the time stops in Supernatural he's not.



Why not?


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## Amol (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Also I would like to point out, many angels died from their fall from Heaven to Earth. Dying from hitting the ground is 100% physical damage. Immunity to all damage my ass. If anything, the DBZ characters can fling the angels at the ground at hypersonic speeds, and kill the angels from the impact.


Wow you really don't understand Supernatural, do you?
They were hurt because Metatron had used Banishment Spell on them which harmed their wings. As castiel said it is equivalent to humans having their liver ripped out of them by hand.
Do you homework before replying again. 


OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Sorry to bump this thread, but I call BS on the Darkness being universal. I mean she was having trouble against 10 mook demons and 5 witches. If the Darkness really were universal, fodder like that shouldn't be able to give her trouble. And Heaven's combined smiting was NOT a universe busting attack. LOL not even close. City level at best. And according to Metatron, it took God ages to create the universe. It's not like he just created the universe in one go. If he only created the universe by creating one planet at a time, that doesn't equate universe level.
> Also even if God is considered universal, why is Death considered universal? Is it because Death stated that he would one day reap God? Well he turned out to be wrong. He would never reap God. We have no idea if Death actually had the power to kill God or not. And considering God was able to seal Death, there is absolutely no reason to believe Death is on the same level, or stronger than God.
> 
> 
> ...


I possibly lost brain cells while reading this nonsense.
Fodder demons and Witches?
Excuse me, those Demons had King of Hell with them who is powered by every single soul in Hell.
Those witches had a witch with them who is powered by Book of Dammed.
Your rest of post is nothing but awkward and pathetic attempt at downplaying SN verse.
It doesn't matter how much you whine, Raw power is useless against Reality Warping. Punching their vessels does not matter to them.
It is really not that hard to understand.

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

Dudebro said:


> ...I wasn't even going to post in this thread and I still don't want to but some sadomasochistic reptilian part of my brain begs me to step into this argument to simply question this and nothing else out of curiosity.
> 
> 
> 
> What difference does any of that make? All I see are a whole bunch of abilities related to time manipulation...But this is specifically discussing a time stop...Outside of the length of "time" its kept frozen what makes their time stops more time stoppier than Hit's? Forget the alternate timeline/reality shit that I know Goku can't resist. But that specific time stop ability. Whose to say Goku can't just step his way through that in the same way he did to Hit?



Because Goku's "resistance" was anticipating Hit's time stop and it can only last for half a second so why would anyone be stupid enough to compare someone who can perpetually freeze time as long as they want within someone who has a very explicitly low duration of it to the point that it can be anticipated and countered? In fact Goku didn't really resist shit, he was just anticipating when Hit would use his half second time stop to react to him and predict what he would do.

Even then with what was going on with the Kaioken shit and God mode doesn't really give much credence here. So tl ;dr Hits time stop has limitations and equating resistance to a superior form of time stop from that is nonsensical. It'd be like saying Goku pulling this shit means he can resist Saturn's time-stops or Hyperion's.

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## GiveRobert20dollars (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Why don't u show examples of SN having better mind fuckery than DBZ? They simply don't have it. Lol restoring people's memories. You think that's impressive mind fuckery? Don't make me laugh. And creating alternate timelines? Even Trunks can do that.
> 
> And earlier you said Zachariah created his own timeline. Prove it. Because according to himself he just sent Dean to the future.
> 
> ...

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Amol said:


> Wow you really don't understand Supernatural, do you?
> They were hurt because Metatron had used Banishment Spell on them which harmed their wings. As castiel said it is equivalent to humans having their liver ripped out of them by hand.
> Do you homework before replying again.
> 
> ...



They may have lost their wings, but if they were truly immune to physical damage then they wouldn't have died from hitting the ground. Wings have nothing to do with this.

So universe busting witches and demons now? Yeah right. They have absolute shit for showings.

It kind of does when Angels true form can be affected by physical damage.

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

I only use insults when others insult me lol.

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## Dudebro (Aug 2, 2016)

At the beginning yes but later on he did indeed resist the time stop if only for a few moments after the Super Cyan shit he did...As in Hit activated it and Goku was still moving during it.

I get that Hit's time stop is limited in it's duration. I'm not saying his time stop in terms of use or length is as good or anywhere near equal to some of the best users of it. But a time stop is a time stop. How can it ever be different? It's hax, a physically impossible ability that can't really be quantified or measured in terms of energy or any other way we know of. You can't just say one guy's will work where the other failed because of duration alone.

What gives anyone the authority to say that some other guy's time stop is better than Hit's just because it's longer? All we can say is that if Goku can move for .1 seconds while time is frozen that in the use of another time stop he can do the same unless some reason is given for it aside from just length. If there is one I'm all ears.

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## Freddy Mercury (Aug 2, 2016)

No one wins

Both series should have ended by now.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Aug 2, 2016)

ITT: Resisting one timestop clearly means you can take on Hyper Kabuto

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Dislike 2


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Dudebro said:


> At the beginning yes but later on he did indeed resist the time stop if only for a few moments after the Super Cyan shit he did...As in Hit activated it and Goku was still moving during it.
> 
> I get that Hit's time stop is limited in it's duration. I'm not saying his time stop in terms of use or length is as good or anywhere near equal to some of the best users of it. But a time stop is a time stop. How can it ever be different? It's hax, a physically impossible ability that can't really be quantified or measured in terms of energy or any other way we know of. You can't just say one guy's will work where the other failed because of duration alone.
> 
> What gives anyone the authority to say that some other guy's time stop is better than Hit's just because it's longer? All we can say is that if Goku can move for .1 seconds while time is frozen that in the use of another time stop he can do the same unless some reason is given for it aside from just length. If there is one I'm all ears.



Thanks for the clarification. I never actually watched Super so I didn't know. If Goku actually did move when time was stopped then time stop won work on him period. It doesn't matter whether it's 1 second or an eternity. Goku can move when time is stopped.

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> ITT: Resisting one timestop clearly means you can take on Hyper Kabuto


Kind of does. If you are able to move in stopped time, time stops wouldn't do shit to you.
I have no idea who hyper kabuto is thou

Reactions: Dislike 4


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## Qinglong (Aug 2, 2016)

Is someone really trying to compare Trunks to literally anyone else in timeline manipulation


The ^ (use bro) who is literally "Whoops I fucked up here" tier

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Qinglong said:


> Is someone really trying to compare Trunks to literally anyone else in timeline manipulation
> 
> 
> The ^ (use bro) who is literally "Whoops I fucked up here" tier


Just pointing out creating alternate timelines isn't really a combat feat.

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Why don't u show examples of SN having better mind fuckery than DBZ? They simply don't have it. Lol restoring people's memories. You think that's impressive mind fuckery? Don't make me laugh. And creating alternate timelines? Even Trunks can do that.
> 
> And earlier you said Zachariah created his own timeline. Prove it. Because according to himself he just sent Dean to the future.
> 
> ...







Dudebro said:


> At the beginning yes but later on he did indeed resist the time stop if only for a few moments after the Super Cyan shit he did...As in Hit activated it and Goku was still moving during it.



Hit's time stopping ability is literally shit level. It has severe limitations and only works for an instant, so no, not buying it equating to working against the angel's time powers.



> I get that Hit's time stop is limited in it's duration. I'm not saying his time stop in terms of use or length is as good or anywhere near equal to some of the best users of it. But a time stop is a time stop. How can it ever be different? It's hax, a physically impossible ability that can't really be quantified or measured in terms of energy or any other way we know of. You can't just say one guy's will work where the other failed because of duration alone.



So do you think Hit's time stop being resisted which has only a duration of half a second means Goku can resist Hyperion's time stopping power? Or Saturn's? Give a straight answer.



> What gives anyone the authority to say that some other guy's time stop is better than Hit's just because it's longer? All we can say is that if Goku can move for .1 seconds while time is frozen that in the use of another time stop he can do the same unless some reason is given for it aside from just length. If there is one I'm all ears.



Common sense.

Utility: its a casual ability to use without any fancy gimmicks and simply willing time to stop
Duration: the length in which the time stop persists and endures
Range: how far the time stop goes and its influence or effect on the rest of the universe

Now seeing as how Hit is completely inferior in all three categories, I'm not buying resisting his ability equates to being on par with resisting the angel's time stopping.. Again if you think Super Saiyan Blueberry Goku is going to pull that shit against superior time stoppers you are sorely mistaken and pushing a no-limits bullshit argument. Their powers work on a far higher and more advanced level then his when it comes to time manipulation, which would obviously include their time stop abilities.

A city buster and a planet buster both blow shit up, but you don't get to claim the city buster can resist the planet buster and expect anyone to take you seriously here on that. And while I get time powers are a more exotic comparison, the example merits this statement. So fuck no, its wank to suggest he'd resist it.

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## Dudebro (Aug 2, 2016)

Fang said:


> Hit's time stopping ability is literally shit level. It has severe limitations and only works for an instant, so no, not buying it equating to working against the angel's time powers.



Laughably small time stop or no...It's still a time stop...Same ability, same principals behind it, same effects. I don't nor have I ever expected it to work against the angels(I assume they have resistance) but in terms of say Goku resisting theirs I fail to see why theirs will flat out freeze him when Hit's couldn't. Are their time stops known for freezing people who already have time stop resistance? Does it work across multiple dimensions? Give me a straight answer.  If so that's all that needs to be said. I'll drop this like a bad habit.



> So do you think Hit's time stop being resisted which has only a duration of half a second means Goku can resist Hyperion's time stopping power? Or Saturn's? Give a straight answer.



I can't give you that answer since I'm not entirely familiar with those character's abilities or limits. But if their time stops work like I'm getting the impression they do(exactly like Hit's but lasts a fuck ton longer) with no other details than yes. At least for the .1 seconds Goku's shown to function.





> Common sense.
> 
> Utility: its a casual ability to use without any fancy gimmicks and simply willing time to stop
> Duration: the length in which the time stop persists and endures
> Range: how far the time stop goes and its influence or effect on the rest of the universe



This seems more in line with a time stop's versatility as opposed to it's "stopping power". Hit's ability is described as him actively bringing time itself to a halt or stealing moments of it specifically for himself. Not some substitute gimmick like accelerating his own or slowing it to a crawl or some "good enough for the situation" maneuver. Shitty or not it is what it is. That's why more details are needed to say Goku can't resist it.



> Now seeing as how Hit is completely inferior in all three categories, I'm not buying resisting his ability equates to being on par with resisting the angel's time stopping.. Again if you think Super Saiyan Blueberry Goku is going to pull that shit against superior time stoppers you are sorely mistaken and pushing a no-limits bullshit argument. *Their powers work on a far higher and more advanced level then his when it comes to time manipulation*, which would obviously include their time stop abilities.



The bolded? Show me it. If you want me to fuck off then just show me and you won't have to hear from me on it again. Cause all I see is range. And that makes it more versatile definitely but it's not enough to say any resistance whatsoever isn't good enough to shrug it off.



> A city buster and a planet buster both blow shit up, but you don't get to claim the city buster can resist the planet buster and expect anyone to take you seriously here on that. And while I get time powers are a more exotic comparison, the example merits this statement. So fuck no, its wank to suggest he'd resist it.



No. Wank would be something like assuming Babidi could resist or dish out any form of mind fuck because his telepathy has planet level range despite the fact that there are no showings of him using it offensively or defensively whatsoever. Or what some people here have said about Goku resisting soul fuck because he has a planet level soul or some shit. The former example is more in line with the idea being put across that Goku can't resist these time stops. The characters have shown superior range and duration but considering the nature of the ability you can't say more unless they have shown more. Goku has a time stop resistance feat. And no matter how shitty of one it is. It's all he needs if his opponent doesn't have feats implying their freeze is more effective. Not just bigger because that's not a good enough measurement but BETTER. A good example would be how Dr. Strange once froze a guy in time who already had time stop resistance IIRC. Show me at least something like that. Failing that show me them freezing multiple dimensions at once or something.

TL; DR: Show me these characters freezing someone with time stop resistance of any kind or freezing more than one dimension/timeline at once or some shit. That is all I'm asking for.

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## Deer Lord (Aug 2, 2016)

Saying angels have shit dura because some died falling to earth is retarded
Heaven isn't even a place, it's an entirely different plane of existence ffs

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## Toaa (Aug 2, 2016)

...goku should be able to resist time stop just for the duration he ressited hits.

also both beerus champa and anyone above seem to be completely immune to it


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## Blocky (Aug 2, 2016)

While this thread is cancer like all the other awful ones.

Why is Hit's Time Stop is different from Supernatural's time stop again? I mean, you could say it's time-skip instead of a time stop tho.


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

What's going on in this thread?

Hit's timeskip was described by Galactic King as a time-stop, later evidence shows that it does indeed function like a timestop. Goku predicted the time-stop because Hit was only using it to cross the distance between them, since he wasn't taking the fight seriously.

When he realized that Goku was predicting where he would end up, he ended up actually fighting, improving his time manipulation to 0.2, then 0.5, and MUDA barraging Goku during stopped/skipped time. Because of this, Goku had no counter, but Hit let him recover and keep going (much to the chagrin of Champa).

Goku later went KK x10 and smacked Hit in the face, Hit retaliates with a time-stop, but Goku busts out of it. He claims to have done this through sheer speed, but Occam's Razor would point to time manipulation resistance, unless you want to argue that Goku's speed is lolinfinity and can break time.

Hit later uses his time-stop again when Goku is coming at him through the Kamehameha, Goku keeps going for the punch, further supporting time manipulation resistance, but Hit improves his time-stop again and traps Goku during stopped time.




Blocky said:


> While this thread is cancer like all the other awful ones.
> 
> Why is Hit's Time Stop is different from Supernatural's time stop again? I mean, you could say it's time-skip instead of a time stop tho.



I think what's being argued is the power of Hit's timestop, in comparison to what Supernatrural has. Since Hit's timestop is only 0.5 seconds, it's less powerful or something. Although, Hit's timestop is strong enough to stop a multi-galaxy - universe level character going at MFTL+ speeds.

Then again, it's hax, so maybe it doesn't matter how powerful Goku was, But that would point to Goku resisting time-hax, so then the power of Hits timestop wouldn't be a factor.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

While I can see why one would think a time stop is a time stop regardless of effect, you have to remember we are on a ranking type forum.

You will get everything ranked. Characters, weapons, abilities, etc. You can't assume an inferior displayed ability gets equality with another. That's not how we (or this for that matter) works.

Why do you think calculations are so prevalent? To keep us from making claims just like this. So since exotic powers like this can't be calc, common sense needs to step in. And it should be telling you that one time stop is greater than the other, not equal.

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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

Compare Dio's 10-11 second timestop to Hit's 0.5. 

Yes the duration of Dio's is longer than Hit's, but why would the time freezing effects be any more different or more/less powerful?

Of course time-stopping a person with time resistance is a better feat than just time-stopping an average Joe, but if someone can freeze time, why would it make it any less powerful than a person who can freeze time, just a little longer.

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## bitethedust (Aug 2, 2016)

It's really clear. Goku hasn't been shown to resist timestops longer than the one Hit uses. No need to overthink it. 

As on the timestop "which one's better" deal, it's the same as it's always been. We compare feats and characteristics of them.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

What you described is where it works. Two relatively similar abilities (localized time stop, short duration, etc). What I'm getting at is when its dissimilar. Fang gave an example with an ability that had effects across the universe and was indefinitely. That's not, in any way, shape, or form, equal to the ones you mentioned.

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## Dudebro (Aug 2, 2016)

Fang said:


> -snip-



Do you have the feat or naw?

Cause until I see it I give no fucks about anything else you have to say on the subject matter.



Keollyn said:


> What you described is where it works. Two relatively similar abilities (localized time stop, short duration, etc). What I'm getting at is when its dissimilar. Fang gave an example with an ability that had effects across the universe and was indefinitely. That's not, in any way, shape, or form, equal to the ones you mentioned.



They are equal in the endgame intended effect that they have. And that's why this feels like such a pain in the ass to discuss. This feels sort familiar but not quite the same as the DCvsPotency discussion that occasionally pops up. They are both time freezes at the end of the day regardless of range. And that's all the ability does. These people are saying that Goku wouldn't be able to move at all in these other character's time stops for some special reason. I'm perfectly fine with that. The issue is that the special reason in question is just that the time stops last longer or reach a bit farther and nothing else. That's just dumb.

At least with things like soul or mind fuck you have things other than range to rely on like the actual number of minds or souls tampered with at once. Some kind of tangible number to at least BS a conclusion.

If you can telepathically communicate to a whole planet at once but only have ever displayed the ability to mess with one person's head at a time then I'm not going to assume your mind fuck capabilities are any better than the guy who can't do the former but is equal in the latter.

Do you at least see where I'm coming from?

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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> What you described is where it works. Two relatively similar abilities (localized time stop, short duration, etc). What I'm getting at is when its dissimilar. Fang gave an example with an ability that had effects across the universe and was indefinitely. That's not, in any way, shape, or form, equal to the ones you mentioned.



Fair enough. 

But that means Goku can still resist that time-stop for 0.5 seconds (what he's been capable of). Which would be a lot of time for a MFTL+ character, no?

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

I wouldn't attribute it like that, no. Otherwise you'd have to do the same to every other exotic powers, and things can get messy that way.

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## The World (Aug 2, 2016)

Raphael tries to combust Freeza

nothing happens

Freeza gives Raphael the Krillin treatment

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## The World (Aug 2, 2016)

Fang said:


> If Super is involved then anyone who can wipe out universes is going to end everything but Death, God, and the Darkness.


Zeno wiped out 6 universes instantly

Beerus claims that Zeno can wipe out the rest of the 12 universes instantly

they would all be dead before they even knew what happened


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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> One time stop is superior to the other in terms of range and versatility but either way time stop is time stop. If an opponent can move when time is stopped for an instant he can move when time is stopped for an eternity. Just by moving in a small time stop the opponent has shown he can move without time flowing forward. Juse like a being who is intangible can tank galaxy busting attacks even though he has only shown to tank building level attacks. By being intangible you're immune to all physical damage. By moving in stopped time you are immune to all time stops because even when time is frozen you can still move.



There's no scaling to intangibility though, so that's a horrible comparison.

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> I wouldn't attribute it like that, no. Otherwise you'd have to do the same to every other exotic powers, and things can get messy that way.


Well time stop is different than other abilities because it affects time rather than the opponent. Meaning no matter how powerful a time manipulator is he can only affect time and not the opponent. If the opponent has shown to be unaffected by the manipulation of time, the time manipulator csn manipulate time all he wants but his opponent will still be able to move, because he is unaffected by time.



Keollyn said:


> There's no scaling to intangibility though, so that's a horrible comparison.


The point is it doesn't matter what scale the intangible opponent has shown to be unaffected by. If he has one intangibiloty feat he is immune to physical damage. If someone is able to move in stopped time then he is unaffected by time being frozwn. Period.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

There are time stops in fiction that affects just one person's time (I can name two right off the bat). You may need to read a bit more fiction if you think that.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> As on the timestop "which one's better" deal, it's the same as it's always been. *We compare feats and characteristics of them*.



Seriously, this is really spot on with what we do around here. And it's not changing because of how one feels it should be.

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> NSince you have retard level IQ let me dumb this down for you. Hit has a time stop ability. No matter how small it's still a timestop ability. Goku can move in stopped time. It doesn't matter if time is stopped for an instant or an eternity. Goku can move in stopped time and that is final. Time doesn't need to be flowing forward for Goku to move.



Not accepting the NLF bullshit, put up or shut up, feats of Hit matching the angels time manipulation powers, dupe kun. We already know you don't know jackshit about Supernatural.



> *snip*



Blub blub blub is all I'm getting here from you.




> One time stop is superior to the other in terms of range and versatility but either way time stop is time stop. If an opponent can move when time is stopped for an instant he can move when time is stopped for an eternity. Just by moving in a small time stop the opponent has shown he can move without time flowing forward. Juse like a being who is intangible can tank galaxy busting attacks even though he has only shown to tank building level attacks. By being intangible you're immune to all physical damage. By moving in stopped time you are immune to all time stops because even when time is frozen you can still move.



Intangibility doesn't scale that way.
Time stops don't scale that way.

Put up feats or get the fuck out of here. The OBD sets itself by comparing feats with energy on whose output is greater based off collateral and damage. Its the same thing with time stops or other powers, if Hits time stop isn't comparable to the angels, there is no reason Goku gets resistance to their time stops.

Now put up or shut the fuck up.

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## Dudebro (Aug 2, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> I wouldn't attribute it like that, no. Otherwise you'd have to do the same to every other exotic powers, and things can get messy that way.



Isn't that what we do though? Yeah we have rankings and stuff but that's in regards to things that can be somewhat measured. And even with that everything is treated case by case...

It has to be that way on some level for there to even be a debate no?

I'm just one guy stating his opinion though. If most of the forum disagrees with me on it so be it. I've long since accepted that this hobby is all about majority rules. I'll accept it for what it is if that's the case.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> The point is it doesn't matter what scale the intangible opponent has shown to be unaffected by. If he has one intangibiloty feat he is immune to physical damage. If someone is able to move in stopped time then he is unaffected by time being frozwn. Period.



Intangibility can't be scaled. What are you missing here?

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

Dudebro said:


> Isn't that what we do though? Yeah we have rankings and stuff but that's in regards to things that can be somewhat measured. And even with that everything is treated case by case...
> 
> It has to be that way on some level for there to even be a debate no?
> 
> I'm just one guy stating his opinion though. If most of the forum disagrees with me on it so be it. I've long since accepted that this hobby is all about majority rules. I'll accept it for what it is if that's the case.


I was replying to Impossible, who was saying that Goku should have at least .5 resistance to time stop against any level of time stop. But that's not the point. If he didn't do it to an equal or better time stop, he's not resisting at all.

If we do that, you can say someone who mind resisted a low level telepath can mind resist a little bit a high level telepath. See how that doesn't work well?

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

Even exotic powers can be measured and quantified. So no, time stops aren't getting excluded from this.

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## Brolypotence (Aug 2, 2016)

Wow this thread is really something

On Topic Shouldn't time stop of both verses be the same thing one of them being longer than the other

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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

What determines a more effective time stop then?

I don't mean duration, but freezing the opponent in time. What determines that one person's freezing is more effective than the other, since duration only implies that they can do it longer.


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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

Mainly duration and range. Same way we determine whose a stronger telepath by one affecting more people then another telepath.

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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

So wouldn't that assume that if Hit can stop time for 0.51 seconds, then Goku wouldn't be able to break out of it?

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> What determines a more effective time stop then?
> 
> I don't mean duration, but freezing the opponent in time. What determines that one person's freezing is more effective than the other, since duration only implies that they can do it longer.



Same with everything else. Fang said it in one of his post about it being relatively similar to what we do with energy. 

Everything is fundamentally on a scale. Think of it as such and it shouldn't be hard to figure out. 

The only other instance is the source of the power. Which once again, gets placed on that very scale.

Basically, doing this, we avoid things like Itachi = Luke. No difference here.

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## SSBMonado (Aug 2, 2016)

"The angels' true forms are incorporeal"

As is almost everything in Bleach, yet we agree that everything from the saiyan saga and up solos the verse (minus Yhwach, potentially). 

That said, couldn't Beerus still seal them like he did the Elder Kai?

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

Bleach is actually a special case. Has literally no correlation to what happens in Supernatural (since they actually have human vessels throughout their run, whereas Bleach rarely uses their counterparts. I think gigai, right?)

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## Crimson King (Aug 2, 2016)

So, Death kills them with his epic intro 


or a random angel gives them all stage 4 cancer.

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

Yes

Originally Bleach needed to have Ichigo move his soul with his Shinigami powers out of his human body. Then the series ignores its own rules when you have Shinigami, Hollows, and Arrancars being very obviously tangible in the real world. Not comparable to Supernatural's example at all.

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## Crimson King (Aug 2, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> "The angels' true forms are incorporeal"
> 
> As is almost everything in Bleach, yet we agree that everything from the saiyan saga and up solos the verse (minus Yhwach, potentially).
> 
> That said, couldn't Beerus still seal them like he did the Elder Kai?


 

Such intangible
very phasing
Much unhurt

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## Nep Heart (Aug 2, 2016)

Crimson King said:


> Such intangible
> very phasing
> Much unhurt



Now, if only Ya Wack jobbed to a telephone pole instead...

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## Deer Lord (Aug 2, 2016)

Yeah, hollows were breaking Ichigo's house *IN THE FIRST FUCKING EPISODE*

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Crimson King said:


> So, Death kills them with his epic intro
> 
> 
> or a random angel gives them all stage 4 cancer.


Death and above is the only one that can argubly beat the Z fighters. Stage 4 cancer wouldn't do shit to Majin Buu. Or even Cell. Or even Frieza.

And Beerus could probably seal Death as we know Death can be sealed. Death is not universal.




Keollyn said:


> Same with everything else. Fang said it in one of his post about it being relatively similar to what we do with energy.
> 
> Everything is fundamentally on a scale. Think of it as such and it shouldn't be hard to figure out.
> 
> ...


 But time stop isn't something you resist. You're either affected by it or your not. Telepathy is something that directly attacks the opponent. Time stop doesnt. It doesn't matter how strong the opponent is, if you stop time you stop time. What matters is whether the opponent us affected by stopped time or not. If Goku is shown to be able to move in stopped time he is immune to time stop. It doesn't matter how powerful the time stop user is because his abilities don't target the opponent, they target time itself. All Goku needs to do is show a single instance where he is able to move without the forward flow of time to prove that no amount of time stop would work on him.

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## Nep Heart (Aug 2, 2016)

I would suggest a SSJG Blue Goku vs The Shrike thread at this point, but I think that was done not too long ago, sooo...

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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Fang said:


> Not accepting the NLF bullshit, put up or shut up, feats of Hit matching the angels time manipulation powers, dupe kun. We already know you don't know jackshit about Supernatural.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not NLF you dumb shit! If Goku has shown to be unaffected by time stop he isn't affected by time stop you dumbass retarded piece of shit. Angels have better time stop powers but time stop doesn't work on Goku so it doesn't fucking matter. Since you are just a complete morning dumbass at memetic levels, I'm just going to ignore you. I might lose brain cells if I have to see anymore of your stupidity. You shouldn't even have access to the internet. You need to have your own little corner at an asylum.

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## Cipher97 (Aug 2, 2016)

Saturn/Hyperion vs Goku when?

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## Roggiano (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> It's not NLF you dumb shit! If Goku has shown to be unaffected by time stop he isn't affected by time stop you dumbass retarded piece of shit. Angels have better time stop powers but time stop doesn't work on Goku so it doesn't fucking matter. Since you are just a complete morning dumbass at memetic levels, I'm just going to ignore you. I might lose brain cells if I have to see anymore of your stupidity. You shouldn't even have access to the internet. You need to have your own little corner at an asylum.


Listen to what we're saying:
This forum, as a majority, tends to rank and compare feats.  This -includes- time-stop (we measure it with mainly range and how long it lasts and that determines how "strong" it is in comparison to other time-stops).  People told you that this is the way we do things here because that's how we want to set up a basis for comparison.  It's not a matter of right or wrong: it's a matter of "this is our logic and this is how we go about things."

If you want to go against this notion, it's better to take it up in the meta-dome, where things such as how we interpret feats and such.  Not in a thread where everyone has repeated themselves to you and you keep repeating the same thing and we're just going in circles.

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## DarkTorrent (Aug 2, 2016)

so Goku can exist outside of time now apparently


Roggiano said:


> People told you that this is the way we do things here because that's how we want to set up a basis for comparison



"we believe makes the most sense for several reasons" would be more appropriate

"want" sounds whimsical

but otherwise you are right

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## Nep Heart (Aug 2, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> so Goku can exist outside of time now apparently



We already had that wank before with those "Goku is faster than time itself" claims.

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## DarkTorrent (Aug 2, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> We already had that wank before with those "Goku is *faster than time itself*" claims.



h-how is that even possible?


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## Nep Heart (Aug 2, 2016)

Wankers misinterpreting Goku resisting Hit's time stop apparently.

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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> It's not NLF you dumb shit! If Goku has shown to be unaffected by time stop he isn't affected by time stop you dumbass retarded piece of shit. Angels have better time stop powers but time stop doesn't work on Goku so it doesn't fucking matter. Since you are just a complete morning dumbass at memetic levels, I'm just going to ignore you. I might lose brain cells if I have to see anymore of your stupidity. You shouldn't even have access to the internet. You need to have your own little corner at an asylum.



>no rebuttal
>no counter argument
>ad naseum same stupid circular argument

No one cares what you think, dupe kun.

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## Keollyn (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Angels have better time stop powers .



So if you are aware of this, what seems to be the problem?

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## Dudebro (Aug 2, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> so Goku can exist outside of time now apparently
> 
> 
> "we believe makes the most sense for several reasons" would be more appropriate
> ...



Hey man. It is what it is. To put it in any other way is just sugar coating it.

Can't speak for everyone when I say this but I'd rather be bluntly honest about it.

Fucked up it may sound it but "keeping it real"at the very least is the best way to prevent confusion. Strong opposing beliefs or not what rebuttal defeats "Most of us don't give a darn"?


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 2, 2016)

Dudebro said:


> Hey man. It is what it is. To put it in any other way is just sugar coating it.
> 
> Can't speak for everyone when I say this but I'd rather be bluntly honest about it.
> 
> Fucked up it may sound it but "keeping it real"at the very least is the best way to prevent confusion. Strong opposing beliefs or not what rebuttal defeats "Most of us don't give a darn"?



but it's not sugar coating it, it is what I said it is

the system of feats evaluation wasn't set up because people felt like it, but because it was the logical thing to do when character vs character battles are concerned

and that system wasn't based on personal preferences and desires, but it was based on what people believed was more rational and it was changed every time someone managed to convince that said change will make it more logical

f.e. the biggest change to OBD methods of evaluating feats - the calcing system didn't become the cornerstone of the whole system because people just felt like it, but because it is a more objective and precise method in comparison to simply eye balling, at least people perceived and still continue to perceive it to be one

so if you believe that you have an approach to evaluating time manipulation feats that makes more sense than our current one, then make a thread in the meta about it like Roggiano suggested and try to convince that is the case

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> So if you are aware of this, what seems to be the problem?


Because it doesn't matter how good their time stop powers are if their opponent is immune to time stop.

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 2, 2016)

immunity to one poison =/= immunity to all poisons

Reactions: Like 5 | Dislike 1


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 2, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> immunity to one poison =/= immunity to all poisons


But immunity to 1 time stop = immunity to all time stops. If someone has shown to be able to move when time is stopped, then no amount of time stops can stop him. End of story.

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> But immunity to 1 time stop = immunity to all time stops.



no



OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> If someone has shown to be able to move when time is stopped, then no amount of time stops can stop him. End of story.



there are different degrees of mastery and/or power when it comes to time manipulation

just like there are different degrees of mastery and/or power when it comes to reality warping

just like there are different degrees of mastery and/or power when it comes to every other ability

this is not what you are getting

stopping time is not some special cookie that should be treated differently just because you say so

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Dislike 1


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## Roggiano (Aug 2, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> But immunity to 1 time stop = immunity to all time stops. If someone has shown to be able to move when time is stopped, then no amount of time stops can stop him. End of story.


We just told you that we rank time-stops based off of their efficiency when it comes to range and length of said time-stop.  Why?  For a basis of comparison.  And this didn't come out of nowhere... this came from years of debating, different sides presenting what they believe is most logical in how to best operate.

If you truly want to argue this, go to the Meta-dome and explain why that train of thought, that being immune to one time-stop equals immunity to all time-stops is a better assumption than resisting one time-stop is not necessarily going to be effective with another time-stop because not all time-stops are equal.

But if you're going to keep saying this, repeating yourself as if you're the end all, be all, then there is legitimately no point to this.  We're going to keep going in circles.  What do you hope to accomplish with that?

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

Honestly Goku is going to rematch Hit, so more time shinanigans will happen then.


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## Fang (Aug 2, 2016)

>dupe kun is literally so butthurt he can only repeat himself ad naseum and tries to shit up poster ratings

top kek



XImpossibruX said:


> Honestly Goku is going to rematch Hit, so more time shinanigans will happen then.



Honestly won't matter unless we see him pulling angel tier time antics.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 2, 2016)

Hit doesn't disappoint


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## SSBMonado (Aug 3, 2016)

Hit managed to quintuple the time limit of his time stop over the course of a 15 minute fight and now he realizes that actually training is not a bad idea. Much like how Freeza getting off his lazy ass to train for a few months made him god tier, Hit will probably get absurd upgrades, too.

I think it's very likely that he will end up getting Worf'd, though. As in, the omniversal tournament saga begins and Hit loses to the new villain to increase the guy's menace


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## OmnipotentSupermanSolos (Aug 3, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> no
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Look this really isn't hard to understand. Angels and Hit both have the same ability. They can stop time. The only difference is the angels time stop is longer. It's not like one is better than the other. It's the same ability except one lasts longer than the other. The Angels power is more useful against someone who is affected by time stops as they can just permanently stop time and leave the opponent frozen while Hit is limited to freezing them for a short while. But time stop doesn't work on Goku. Time stop isn't an attack you directly use on the opponent. It's an indirect attack. By moving in stopped time you are immune to all forms of time stop. It makes no difference whether it's one second or one year. Moving in time stop is moving in timestop. It doesn't matter how long angels can stop time for. Goku can move in stopped time so longer duration of time stop doesn't mean shit.

The angels have better range and duration but the potency of the time stop is the same. Time stop is time stop. It's impossible for any time stop to be more potent than another. On both cases time is frozen. You really can't get any stronger than that.

And why doesn't someone PROVE the angels can stop time for as long as they want. When was this shown or stated? This is what you would call NLF.

Reactions: Dislike 7


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

The difference is you dong, the angel's time stops are more powerful there for equivalence of time stop resistance being effective against Hit doesn't correlate to their own. No one is buying your bullshit that makes them equal.

Reactions: Like 4 | Dislike 1


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## Roggiano (Aug 3, 2016)

OmnipotentSupermanSolos said:


> Look this really isn't hard to understand. Angels and Hit both have the same ability. They can stop time. The only difference is the angels time stop is longer. It's not like one is better than the other. It's the same ability except one lasts longer than the other. The Angels power is more useful against someone who is affected by time stops as they can just permanently stop time and leave the opponent frozen while Hit is limited to freezing them for a short while. But time stop doesn't work on Goku. Time stop isn't an attack you directly use on the opponent. It's an indirect attack. By moving in stopped time you are immune to all forms of time stop. It makes no difference whether it's one second or one year. Moving in time stop is moving in timestop. It doesn't matter how long angels can stop time for. Goku can move in stopped time so longer duration of time stop doesn't mean shit.
> 
> *The angels have better range and duration but the potency of the time stop is the same. Time stop is time stop. It's impossible for any time stop to be more potent than another. On both cases time is frozen. You really can't get any stronger than that.*
> 
> And why doesn't someone PROVE the angels can stop time for as long as they want. When was this shown or stated? This is what you would call NLF.


Alright, I'm going to repeat myself one last time:
The OBD ranks time-stop for the sake of comparison.  You say it is "impossible" for any time-stop to be more potent than another but because we're debating fiction, we have assumptions that the majority agrees with for the sake of debates.  So many people here are telling you that one of those assumptions is that not all time-stops are equal.  You have yet to explain why we should -not- do that and treat all time-stops as equal.  You're only giving reasoning that all time-stops are equal but, while you're not necessarily right or wrong, you're not explaining why, from a logical stand point and for the sake of debating, why that assumption is better than the one we have now.

Reactions: Like 4 | Dislike 1


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## Amol (Aug 3, 2016)

Any particular reason why OmnipotentSupermanSolos isn't banned yet?
It is obvious that he is a troll and dupe. Why allow morons to run their mouths?
OT : Time Stop is an ability,a power.
Like say superstrength.
Captain America has super strength and so does Hulk. Do we equalize them because they share same ability? Do we make moronic claims that guy who survived hit from Captain can do same against Hulk?
Of course not.
Same fucking concept.
Angels can indefinitely, extremely casually, without any limitations mess with time and reality.
They are thousand tier above Hit in that department.
Now if someone still doesn't understand something as basic as this he should be scared because he probably doesn't have a brain and is probably running on faulty microchips from BAA.
Mods please kindly close this thread and ban the OP.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Nep Heart (Aug 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> >dupe kun is literally so butthurt he can only repeat himself ad naseum and *tries to shit up poster ratings*
> 
> top kek



 It's hilarious because he's actually going back into older threads to shit up poster ratings of everyone who merely disagrees with him in this thread. I am sure that is enough to warrant discipline from the staff.

Reactions: Like 6 | Dislike 1


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## Cipher97 (Aug 3, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> It's hilarious because he's actually going back into older threads to shit up poster ratings of everyone who merely disagrees with him in this thread. I am sure that is enough to warrant discipline from the staff.


You serious? This fucker is getting that salty over this shit?

Reactions: Like 6 | Dislike 1


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## Nep Heart (Aug 3, 2016)

Cipher97 said:


> You serious? This fucker is getting that salty over this shit?



Can I also point out that this guy is 26? A fucking grown ass man throwing temper tantrums over minor disagreements with some who are likely younger than him. Everyone report his ass.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3 | Dislike 1


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## marks3684 (Aug 3, 2016)

>Comes into thread after hearing about shitstorm happening
>Sees the OP throwing a temper tantrum and negging everyone who calls him out for it, including mods.
>He is 26, two years older than me

Hey Omnipotent. If you are 26, then can you act his age at least, and not like 8 times younger than me?

Also, as for this thread, nope. No one in DB verse has immunity to temporal manipulation. And if they have time manipulation resistance, it is pretty much rock bottom tier at most (only thing notable for DB verse is only DC, durability and speed, that's it).

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Deer Lord (Aug 3, 2016)

His username makes me think of someone very particular

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## marks3684 (Aug 3, 2016)

Deer Lord said:


> His username makes me think of someone very particular



Sadly, he makes me think of a certain comics wanker who the group I'm with encountered a few months ago. Though I wonder if he is just as worse as that person.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Brolypotence (Aug 3, 2016)

Zeno sama


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## Nep Heart (Aug 3, 2016)

Zeno is pretty much overkill, but I guess that is what happens when you include Super alongside vanilla Dragon Ball, manga or anime.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Brolypotence (Aug 3, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> Zeno is pretty much overkill, but I guess that is what happens when you include Super alongside vanilla Dragon Ball, manga or anime.


So if a character appeares that stops time indefinitely which Goku can resist then what?


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## Nep Heart (Aug 3, 2016)

Brolypotence said:


> So if a character appeares that stops time indefinitely which Goku can resist then what?



 I don't think time stop is really a threat to someone who is not only multiverse level, but hilariously faster to boot.


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

Brolypotence said:


> So if a character appeares that stops time indefinitely which Goku can resist then what?



This is Dragon Ball, that's never going to happen. So its pointless to theorize on. Also even if he did, it wouldn't give immunity to other time powers.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 3, 2016)

If Goku can resist an indefinite timestop, then he can resist an indefinite timestop.

What's the big controversy is that some people are arguing that Goku resisted Hit's timestop, would make him resistant to a different timestop, that has a longer duration.

Should really just agree to disagree at this point.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

There is no reason to disagree, because the fact of the matter is he only resisted a far shorter, far weaker, and far less potent version of a time stop then what the angels can do. And that doesn't correlate to including the fact the angels can still fuck him by BFRing him into a universe where nothing supernatural exists (which we saw with Vergil), timeline creation and manipulation, time/death loops, time travel, etc...

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Kenpachi TZ (Aug 3, 2016)

All this talk about time stops.

Any particular reason why Supernatural doesn't win just by an angel skullfucking them with his/her true form?


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## Nep Heart (Aug 3, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Any particular reason why Supernatural doesn't win just by an angel skullfucking them with his/her true form?



Pretty sure it was agreed in multiple threads like this one that the Angels will fail to do that to anyone whose durability is above what they can actually harm.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Deer Lord (Aug 3, 2016)

Demons possess Bulma and shoot goku in the back with a laser
GG


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## Dudebro (Aug 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> This is Dragon Ball, that's never going to happen. So its pointless to theorize on. Also even if he did, it wouldn't give immunity to other time powers.



People also said that DB would never get past galaxy level, be FTL or get any good hax whatsoever...It accomplished all of the above in the first fifty episodes of a series that's at least going to be a hundred episodes long...

Just goes to show that nobody can make these calls anymore about this franchise anymore.


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

Dudebro said:


> People also said that DB would never get past galaxy level, be FTL or get any good hax whatsoever...It accomplished all of the above in the first fifty episodes of a series that's at least going to be a hundred episodes long...
> 
> Just goes to show that nobody can make these calls anymore about this franchise anymore.



People said that before it took 19 years for Toei to get Toriyama to canonize a new series between the end of DB and the airing of Super. So nah, not really the same conclusion to make here. Best part is, DBS still gets creamed against Saint Seiya.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Keollyn (Aug 3, 2016)

DBS accomplished a lot of statements. And more statements.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 3, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> DBS accomplished a lot of statements. And more statements.


it couldn't accomplish consistently decent animation though

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

And yet it still won't save them from Saga's fisting.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Dudebro (Aug 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> People said that before it took 19 years for Toei to get Toriyama to canonize a new series between the end of DB and the airing of Super. So nah, not really the same conclusion to make here. Best part is, DBS still gets creamed against Saint Seiya.




Exactly. Literally nobody could have seen it coming.


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## Fang (Aug 3, 2016)

Everyone saw it coming when Battle of the Gods was announced.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Keollyn (Aug 3, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> it couldn't accomplish consistently decent animation though


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## Kenpachi TZ (Aug 4, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> Pretty sure it was agreed in multiple threads like this one that the Angels will fail to do that to anyone whose durability is above what they can actually harm.



Why? It's haxx, not DC.


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## Nep Heart (Aug 4, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Why? It's haxx, not DC.



Prove it, flowery speech by itself is insufficient.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Kenpachi TZ (Aug 4, 2016)

Ampchu said:


> Prove it, flowery speech by itself is insufficient.



Yes, because conventional strength boosts can burn someone's eyes out of their skull and knock them out. On sight. 

That woman looked at Castiel's form *via psychic powers* and got skulllfucked. How the hell is that DC and not haxx?


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## Nep Heart (Aug 4, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Yes, because conventional strength boosts can *burn someone's eyes out of their skull and knock them out.*



So, basically, you're admitting you have no argument. Great. Burning and KOing can both be achieved with brute force. Seeing as you cannot prove _specifically_ how this is being achieved, there is no reason to believe this is hax based on flowery speech and mystery alone.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Kenpachi TZ (Aug 4, 2016)

Read my edit.


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## Gordo solos (Aug 4, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Yes, because conventional strength boosts can burn someone's eyes out of their skull and knock them out. On sight.
> 
> That woman looked at Castiel's form *via psychic powers* and got skulllfucked. How the hell is that DC and not haxx?


Really not seeing how this is considered hax

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Nep Heart (Aug 4, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> That woman looked at Castiel's form *via psychic powers* and got skulllfucked. How the hell is that DC and not haxx?



Easy, it just means that true form of angels can extend even against those who view them through ESP. This is not hax, it just means that not even psychic perceptions are safe from the affect. No proof of hax here.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Aug 4, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Why? It's haxx, not DC.



Because it only worked against a low end psychic whose only showings are ESP and astral projection and a very low form of clairvoyance? Its like the same shit from the Luke vs Lucifer thread where someone was arguging the moment Luke encountered Lucifer's true form, he'd go blind but its really a no limits argument as bad as the "muh Hit timestop" bullshit going on earlier in the thread.


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## Keollyn (Aug 4, 2016)

I'd say it is correct to believe it isn't conventional, but it also isn't considered hax. The light from their true body (that's correct, right?) is similar to if a human tried to look directly into the sun.

Kinda going off memory. Haven't seem Supernatural when the Angels were present in a long time.


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