# Law vs Zoro



## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

location - Onigashima
IC

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Grinningfox (May 31, 2022)

Law is superior

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Redline (May 31, 2022)

Law hand down! His df is too op for zoro sorry

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShadoLord (May 31, 2022)

Haki > DF

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Haki > DF


thats why Kaido won .. oh wait

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Well actually (May 31, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Haki > DF


Except for PW having more AP than anything Zoro has shown.


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## YonkoDrippy (May 31, 2022)

Law wins high-extreme diff.

He sort of defeated Big Mom, while Zoro barely defeated a Yonko first mate. 

His fruit is also too hax for Zoro. Eventually he’ll get overwhelmed by Law’s awakening.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 31, 2022)

Either way Zoro will end up being stronger because both are swordsmen


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## TheMoffinMan (May 31, 2022)

Whoever lands the first clean hit wins. Both are fully capable of beating the other.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> location - Onigashima
> IC


Law.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## YonkoDrippy (May 31, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Either way Zoro will end up being stronger because both are swordsmen


Laws swordsmanship revolves around his df powers.

Law is more of a devil fruit user than a swordsman.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

TheMoffinMan said:


> Whoever lands the first clean hit wins. Both are fully capable of beating the other.


Yeah but Law can teleport.

So Law lands the first clean hit 100 times /100 times.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Laws swordsmanship revolves around his df powers.
> 
> Law is more of a devil fruit user than a swordsman.


99% of his attacks DF related  ... o but he uses a sword.

LOL.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (May 31, 2022)

Law uses his devil fruit to augment the power of his sword

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Mercurial (May 31, 2022)

In a 1 vs 1 fight and overall Zoro is stronger, clearly

But if Law has help from someone else distracting his opponent and letting him taking advantage of that to land his attacks, then he could win

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## arv993 (May 31, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Yeah but Law can teleport.
> 
> So Law lands the first clean hit 100 times /100 times.


That’s why he needed backstabs against big mom to land hits. He can’t easily land hits in 1 v 1s. Esp against cqc fighters.


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

arv993 said:


> That’s why he needed backstabs against big mom to land hits. He can’t easily land hits in 1 v 1s. Esp against cqc fighters.


We are talking about BM or another  Yonko.


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## Empathy (May 31, 2022)

Couldn’t see Law crossing swords with aCoC Zoro without his sword breaking.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Couldn’t see Law crossing swords with aCoC Zoro without his sword breaking.


he and his sword withstood fighting BM, but cant withstand Zoro?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Empathy (May 31, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he and his sword withstood fighting BM, but cant withstand Zoro?



Did he ever cross swords with Big Mom?


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## Upendo Upendo no Mi (May 31, 2022)

Law very high to extreme diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Did he ever cross swords with Big Mom?


His sword can be manipulated. 

See the hole at the end. 

By your logic Luffy in G5 with Adv COC breaks ala Zoro's  swords.


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## arv993 (May 31, 2022)

Ren. said:


> We are talking about BM or another  Yonko.


I used BM as an example. But in general, law has needed luffy to land an attack on doffy. He has repeatedly needed people as decoys.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## ShadoLord (May 31, 2022)

Well actually said:


> Except for PW having more AP than anything Zoro has shown.


Doesn’t make it stronger than Bajrang Gun or Blazing Bagua now, does it?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

arv993 said:


> I used BM as an example. But in general, law has needed luffy to land an attack on doffy. He has repeatedly needed people as decoys.


So you are using BM a top tier that can fly and summon and DD a mobility freak in the high tier.


Zoro is inferior to Law and is lacking the versatility in  3D movement.

Law is also not King with his on off durability trick, his versatility is next to BM, that is why those 2 were put in a battle.


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## Ren. (May 31, 2022)

ShadoLord said:


> Doesn’t make it stronger than Bajrang Gun or Blazing Bagua now, does it?


Bajrang Gun is a awakening move from a God tier DF and Adv COA and COC and currently the #1 AP move in the series.

The other one is the #2 in the series and the strongest attack of the strongest top tier currently.


Law having his strongest move inferior to that means nothing.

And neither of those had just haki or just DF this is why they are #1 and 2 for now.


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## Van Basten (May 31, 2022)

Law for now.

EOS Zoro will be stronger, decisively so.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wh1p (May 31, 2022)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 31, 2022)

but Kaido doesnt know shit

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ShWanks (May 31, 2022)

The Supernova Captain. Law's counter shock & injection shot can hurt Yonko. If they hit Zoro they'll massively slow him down on scaling. Law is faster cuz he counter struck a charging Kaido that was about to blitz Zoro so he's definitely landing first hit.

Law extreme.


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## Jin22 (May 31, 2022)

Could go either way.  These 2 can end a fight in one move but I see Zoro eclipsing Law once he masters ACoC

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Corax (Jun 1, 2022)

Zoro has  better skill in sword combat,combat stats and better haki. So unless he makes a huge mistake and eats puncture willie head on he should win this extreme or so.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## o0Shinthi0o (Jun 1, 2022)

Law wins high diff .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 1, 2022)

30-14


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

"Drago-"
"Room
Shambles"


"wha-"

"Kroom
Puncture wille"

"Sorry luffy.."


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Zoro high diff, he is the superior combatant.


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## Mercurial (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> "Drago-"
> "Room
> Shambles"
> 
> ...


The strongest opponent to which Law did this in 1 VS 1 with no external involvement is... ?


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## Beast (Jun 1, 2022)

Zoro was supposed to get back up but even though Law and Kidd took on a stronger opponent, they are in way way way better shape then Zoro which is quite mad, especially Law who people didn’t think had stamina/ endurance issues. 


The two captains are solidly above Zoro and the match ups speak for themselves.

I would say extreme diff because Law/ Zoro know each other very well and it’s a pretty decent match up in terms of styles. Kidd would dominate Zoro though.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Hilarious how the medicine drawback is completely discarded like a made up concept and used against Zoro. Pure dishonesty.

It doubles the pain of the received injuries after the medicine wears off. Give it to any character post war and they will lay flat unless Chopper invents something to weaken the side effect.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> The strongest opponent to which Law did this in 1 VS 1 with no external involvement is... ?


The one who extreme diffed a YC1 is ...?


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> The one who extreme diffed a YC1 is ...?



Is someone who is > the one who never even extreme diffed a YC1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Is someone who is > the one who never even extreme diffed a YC1


Is < someone who took down a Yonko as a duo.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Is < someone who duo'ed and took down a *Meme*.



BFR'ing a Meme is something Robin, Jinbei and King can do, so all characters weaker than the one that extreme diffed a YC1.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> BFR'ing a Meme is something Robin, Jinbei and King can do, so all characters weaker than the one that extreme diffed a YC1.


Woah fantastic


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Woah fantastic



Concession accepted.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Concession accepted.


No shits given btw


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## Mercurial (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> The one who extreme diffed a YC1 is ...?


1) Zoro after the power up completely overwhelmed King, he destroyed him. Overall the fight is high diff/very high diff, sure; but King vs Adv CoC Zoro is mid diff at worst. And obviously Adv CoC Zoro is the one that represents Current Zoro.
2) Even if we conveniently willigly ignore the aforementioned, extreme diffing a YC1 is still a far better achievement than anything that Law achieved in a 1 vs 1 fight.

Very simply put, Law is a swordsman, and therefore he is conceived to be weaker than Zoro.
That's it.
That's why on Zoro's performance on Roof Piece was far greater than Law (and Kidd's) performance. And then they received power ups, and Zoro received the greatest one (the strongest kind of Haki, the power that "only a handful of the very strongest can", in a world where "Haki surpasses it all"). Therefore he was stronger at that time and remains stronger now.

When all of them fought at the same moment in the same place with the same opportunities against the same opponents, it's undeniable that Rooftop Zoro > Rooftop Law >= Rooftop Kidd. After the power ups, Zoro got the greater one, so it's obvious that Current Zoro > Current Law >= Current Kidd. And their final benchmarks to reach and surpass and their final goals to achieve go in the same obvious direction.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> 1) Zoro after the power up completely overwhelmed King, he destroyed him. Overall the fight is high diff/very high diff, sure; but King vs Adv CoC Zoro is mid diff at worst. And obviously Adv CoC Zoro is the one that represents Current Zoro.
> 2) Even if we conveniently willigly ignore the aforementioned, extreme diffing a YC1 is still a far better achievement than anything that Law achieved in a 1 vs 1 fight.
> 
> Very simply put, Law is a swordsman, and therefore he is conceived to be weaker than Zoro.
> ...


TL;DR please.


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## Mercurial (Jun 1, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> TL;DR please.


No one had greater expectations about your intellectual abilities.
Have you ever read a book? Even half would be ok.
Pre scholar books for children don't count.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## TheWiggian (Jun 1, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> 1) Zoro after the power up completely overwhelmed King, he destroyed him. Overall the fight is high diff/very high diff, sure; but King vs Adv CoC Zoro is mid diff at worst. And obviously Adv CoC Zoro is the one that represents Current Zoro.
> 2) Even if we conveniently willigly ignore the aforementioned, extreme diffing a YC1 is still a far better achievement than anything that Law achieved in a 1 vs 1 fight.
> 
> Very simply put, Law is a swordsman, and therefore he is conceived to be weaker than Zoro.
> ...



Waste of precious lifetime.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 1, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> No one had greater expectations about your intellectual abilities.
> Have you ever read a book? Even half would be ok.
> Pre scholar books for children don't count.


I ain't got even 30 secs to read a pile of bullshit btw.

Either TL;DR or make a thread about it.


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## Conxc (Jun 1, 2022)

The one with the better Haki, which we’ve been told is the ultimate power. Zoro’s Haki is better in all three forms, the most important one Law doesn’t even have himself.


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## Steven (Jun 1, 2022)

DF>Haki

Law has also better feats and is hax as fuck.Zorro is just a brick.Law high-diffs

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> His sword can be manipulated.
> 
> See the hole at the end.
> 
> By your logic Luffy in G5 with Adv COC breaks ala Zoro's  swords.



Not really. Luffy and Zoro are both aCoC users. What makes Law’s sword any more durable than King’s?


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## Steven (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Not really. Luffy and Zoro are both aCoC users. What makes Law’s sword any more durable than King’s?


Clashing with a Top-Tier>>Clashing with a High-Tier.King has no buisness here


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Steven said:


> Clashing with a Top-Tier>>Clashing with a High-Tier.King has no buisness here



When did Law clash with a top tier directly? He just used hit-and-run tactics the entire time more or less.


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## Steven (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> When did Law clash with a top tier directly? He just used hit-and-run tactics the entire time more or less.


His sword got hit by Hybrid Kaidos TB and was fine

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Not really. Luffy and Zoro are both aCoC users. What makes Law’s sword any more durable than King’s?


Please explain how will you prove that when BM a Adv COC top tier did not? 

In fact what blade did break in this arc?


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> When did Law clash with a top tier directly? He just used hit-and-run tactics the entire time more or less.


Law clashes with BM. 

His sword penetrated her body.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Law clashes with BM.
> 
> His sword penetrated her body.



That’s not a clash. I wasn’t trying to make the argument that Law’s sword would break if it tried to pierce Zoro’s skin, or something.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Please explain how will you prove that when BM a Adv COC top tier did not?
> 
> In fact what blade did break in this arc?



King’s blade broke against Zoro. Law never clashed with BM directly.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> That’s not a clash. I wasn’t trying to make the argument that Law’s sword would break if it tried to pierce Zoro’s skin, or something.


 No you are saying that A meito that has access to Law's DF will brake because Zoro.

....


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Steven said:


> His sword got hit by Hybrid Kaidos TB and was fine



So Law getting OHKO’d by a glancing blow from Kaidou means that he can cross swords with aCoC Zoro?


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> King’s blade broke against Zoro. Law never clashed with BM directly.


Again Law can make his Sword hit magma.

Did you see the AP of that.


Tell me will Zoro's sword wistand Law's Shock Willie?

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> So Law getting OHKO’d by a glancing blow from Kaidou means that he can cross swords with aCoC Zoro?


Aswer this can Zoro's sword wistans Shock Willie.

BM's body could not.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> No you are saying that A meito that has access to Law's DF will brake because Zoro.
> 
> ....



Yeah, Zoro has Law outclassed physically and in Haki. No good reason to think he could cross swords with Zoro and not lose.


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## Mercurial (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Again Law can make his Sword hit magma.
> 
> Did you see the AP of that.
> 
> ...


Pre Adv CoC Zoro's swords withstood Kaido + Big Mom's Hakai. Yeah, I guess that Adv CoC Zoro's swords (much stronger than Pre Adv  CoC's) will withstand Law's attack (much weaker than Kaido + Big Mom's).


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Yeah, Zoro has Law outclassed physically and in Haki. No good reason to think he could cross swords with Zoro and not lose.


Again Tell me if Zoro's sword can wistand Show Willie that made a hole that is contry level.

This is your logic.


Mercurial said:


> Pre Adv CoC Zoro's swords withstood Kaido + Big Mom's Hakai. Yeah, I guess that Adv CoC Zoro's swords will withstand Law's attack.


Again Shock Willie defeated BM ...

Your hakai means shit to that level of AP.

And that move broke all Zoro's bones in 2s.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> Kaido + Big Mom's Hakai


Again gents Hakai is nothing to Law's Shock willie, Kaido's country level magma Dragon and Luffy's Island level punch.

And that Hakai destroyed Zoro in 2s  ... after that Zoro was saved by LAW.

@Shiba D. Inu  I did enough, more of this I will puke.

the Z boys think that Zoro can break Law's sword.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## ShWanks (Jun 1, 2022)

1.King doesn't have Meito & his Haki feats are as poor as Law's. 
2.Zoro faints from YC2 lvl Killer blows
3. Law OUTRACED Hybrid Kaido who was charging to blitz Zoro so Law is faster than Zoro.
4.Law's lesser attacks have enough potency to cripple Zoro on first hit & they bypass Haki all together.
5.Law wins, he doesn't clash anyways as that isn't his fighting style.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Again Tell me if Zoro's sword can wistand Show Willie that made a hole that is contry level.
> 
> This is your logic.



I don’t think that Zoro can withstand Puncture Willie or Shock Willie. I’m not sure if the technique is able to be parried either. The former is probably overkill (both could be, to be honest). Law doesn’t need a country buster to put down Zoro; Mes or Gama Knife would kill Zoro too, if they connected. I just think it’s more likely that Law loses in a direct clash than Law landing a sneak attack with no distraction. He’ll have to cross swords with Zoro eventually, and he’s got no real defense against Zoro’s higher end aCoC attacks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> I don’t think that Zoro can withstand Puncture Willie or Shock Willie.


No I am talking about his sword.



Empathy said:


> He’ll have to cross swords with Zoro eventually, and he’s got no real defense against Zoro’s higher end aCoC attacks.


Did you see Law having duels.

Why would he do that?

Law does not attack Zoro the way Zoro wants.

Law will use his DF to manipulate Zoro.

If Zoro tries range attacks he will sent them back at him.

If he tries CQC, he will teleport him.


Zoro will use all his haki and stamina and Law will end him with a end move.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> no real defense against Zoro’s higher end aCoC attacks.


You mean the dude that teleported and saved Zoro does not have means to teleport Zoro's miniscule Attack.

Yes Zoro compared to BM and Kaido that Law dodged or tanked has miniscule Attacks.



Empathy said:


> f they connected. I just think it’s more likely that Law loses in a direct clash than Law landing a sneak attack with no distraction


law has far far far far better mobility.

Why would he engage Zoro in his forte?

I don't know how someone can tell me that Law has worse chances to land attacks when Zoro has missed big attacks and Law has nailed them.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> You mean the dude that teleported and saved Zoro does not have means to teleport Zoro's miniscule Attack.
> 
> Yes Zoro compared to BM and Kaido that Law dodged or tanked has miniscule Attacks.
> 
> ...



I don’t think Ashura is an attack you can just run away from indefinitely. Zoro has superior Haki to Law, so he likely can’t teleport him unless Zoro allows it.


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## Soba (Jun 1, 2022)

Law wins. Higher AP, faster, more versatility and more ways to end the fight. Zoro gets smoke(r)'d

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> I don’t think Ashura is an attack you can just run away from. Zoro has superior Haki to Law, so he likely can’t teleport him unless Zoro allows it.


Who says that?


law can manipulate BM in his awakening.

And no Zoro does not have BM's and Kaido's haki, dismiss that.

You said to me that Zoro now has the same level of haki that Kaido and BM has for him to not be teleported.

Also I said his attatck and for him he teleports himself far from Asura that is time limited.

LOL.



Empathy said:


> Zoro has superior Haki to Law


Again read the manga, they need to have a tier above haki not superior.

Zoro is not a tier above Law in fact he is inferior in most stats bar haki.

Either way this is not even a debate. This is Zoro has Adv COC so he wins ... this is not how it works.

Law is the superior fighter with the superior stats and feats, he wins 10/10 Extreme diff.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Who says that?
> 
> 
> law can manipulate BM in his awakening.
> ...



Law stated specifically that he couldn’t teleport Kaidou and Big Mom due to their Haki. He can’t teleport a superior Haki user. Law’s awakening is also a two-part attack and he can’t use his other DF abilities during it. If Zoro gets pierced by Law’s elongated sword (the first part does no damage), then Zoro can just cleave him with an attack before the second part; a smaller SW might not even be enough to put Zoro down. The only stat Law has over Zoro is hax.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Law stated specifically that he couldn’t teleport Kaidou and Big Mom due to their Haki. He can’t teleport a superior Haki user.


Those are not superior those are peak haki users that have mastered Adv COC.


Again do not attribute Kaido and BM feats or stats to Zoro.



Empathy said:


> The only stat Law has over Zoro is hax.


Speed: he can teleport.
mobility: he can teleport.

AP: did you even see the damage.

Hax.

lethality: did you see what he can do with that sword, GN is one shot for Zoro.

And he has way better feats vs BM.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Those are not superior those are pick haki users.
> 
> 
> Again do not attribute Kaido and BM feats or stats to Zoro.
> ...



Why should Law be able to teleport superior Haki users then? Those are all advantages Law has due to hax DF, as obviously Zoro can’t teleport. In terms of physical stats and Haki, Law is outclassed by Zoro. SW likely doesn’t do as much as damage as Hakai did, and Law would never be able to keep his sword in Zoro long enough to land PW.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Why should Law be able to teleport superior Haki users then?


Again you are saying that Zoro is Kaido and BM.

So anyone with 1% better haki is not affected by Law's DF.

Sure mate.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Again you are saying that Zoro is Kaido and BM.
> 
> So anyone with 1% better haki is not affected by Law's DF.
> 
> Sure mate.



Most likely, yeah. He can’t teleport better Haki users than him. He said so himself. Big Mom’s Haki feats really aren’t much better than Zoro’s anyway.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> n terms of physical stats and Haki, Law is outclassed by Zoro.


Both irelvent stats to Law.

Physically BM shits on Zoro.
Haki wise also shits on Zoro.

She was affected by law's DF and lost.



Empathy said:


> SW likely doesn’t do as much as damage as Hakai did,


Hakai literely did no dmg ... so please stop, you can not even quantiyf.

But Hakai was a casual combo from 2 Yonko while SW broke BM the most durable entity in the series.

So no, SW has better AP and even that is irrelevent because Hakai broke all Zoro's bones in 2 s.


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## Soba (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Why should Law be able to teleport superior Haki users then? Those are all advantages Law has due to hax DF, as obviously Zoro can’t teleport. In terms of physical stats and Haki, Law is outclassed by Zoro. SW likely doesn’t do as much as damage as Hakai did, and Law would never be able to keep his sword in Zoro long enough to land PW.



Pretty sure Law's hax worked on Dofla and he was a superior haki user back then.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Most likely, yeah. He can’t teleport better Haki users than him. He said so himself. Big Mom’s Haki feats really aren’t much better than Zoro’s anyway.


So not only did you speculate that he can not do anything to the scrub that is Zoro his same tier.

Now you are saying that Zoro that did not know about COC 2 sec ago is now not far from BM in haki.

I am having dejavus, first of all Zoro's haki is not even close to the Yonko, his haki was pushed by Enma, that push almost killed him.

...

Sure mate.

A solid top tier is close to a top high tier in haki because he awakened COC and ADv COC thanks to Enma.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Pretty sure Law's hax worked on Dofla and he was a superior haki user back then.


Of course he did.

Mister @Empathy  is doing the Vergo argument.

DD and Vergo also thought that they can negate Law's DF.

Sure they did.


Law can teleport Zoro's attacks and himself.

So he doesn't even need to teleport Zoro.

Zoro pops Asura, Law teleports himself until Asura is not more.

Zoro pops Enma with AdV, range he teleports his attacks, close he teleports himself and at worse he takes most of the attacks AP with that move.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Both irelvent stats to Law.
> 
> Physically BM shits on Zoro.
> Haki wise also shits on Zoro.
> ...



Big Mom’s exterior is durable. The point of Law using internal attacks was to bypass her durability entirely. It’s be said that insides can’t be hardened. If Zoro can still get an Ashura off with all his bones broken, then he can probably counterattack during SW. He wouldn’t be able to impale Zoro long enough to land PW. That’s probably how their fight would go: Law tries to land a two-part attack with his awakening after running for his life for most of the fight, and Zoro gets off an Ashura counterattack just as, or right before Law breaks all his bones internally. Zoro would win and be left barely standing, or it’d be a tie at worst.


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## Soba (Jun 1, 2022)

Keep in mind their feats also get scale'd. 

For example Law's feats and Law himself would look much better against King and Zoro's feats would look much worse against Big Mom. That's the difference the opponents they faced.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> If Zoro can still get an Ashura off with all his bones broken, then he can probably counterattack during SW.


Sure he can.

Like he did with hakai.

Mate that broke all his bones.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> So not only did you speculate that he can not do anything to the scrub that is Zoro his same tier.
> 
> Now you are saying that Zoro that did not know about COC 2 sec ago is now not far from BM in haki.
> 
> ...



Zoro replicated a legitimate top tier’s best feat (Oden) in scarring Kaidou. Zoro has top tier level Haki already, he just has poor stamina with it. Zoro’s Haki is significantly closer to Big Mom’s than it is to Law’s.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Big Mom’s exterior is durable. The point of Law using internal attacks was to bypass her durability entirely.


Now imagine what that atack does to Zoro a regular dude that was pierced by a nerfed Killer and was Koed by blood lose or hunger.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Sure he can.
> 
> Like he did with hakai.
> 
> Mate that broke all his bones.



He broke all his bones and still could use Ashura. Why wouldn’t SW produce the same effect? Big Mom’s insides aren’t durable and it just broke some of her ribs.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Zoro replicated a legitimate top tier’s best feat (Oden) in scarring Kaidou.


...
Mate that is low top tier ... and it did jack shit to a top tier, the dude didn't move.

How was that a "top tier move" if the top tier was only scratched?


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Now imagine what that atack does to Zoro a regular dude that was pierced by a nerfed Killer and was Koed by blood lose or hunger.



Again, the point of Law’s technique is that durability doesn’t even play a factor. At that point, endurance is the stat you’re looking for, which Zoro has in spades.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> He broke all his bones and still could use Ashura. Why wouldn’t SW produce the same effect? Big Mom’s insides aren’t durable and it just broke some of her ribs.


Because Hakai was bloked, SW can not be.

You said it yourself it does internal damage, the broken bones are an affter affect after Zoro ussd all his haki and the swords to block the damage.

Here with SW even BM can not block it.

It means the entire AP will be pored to Zoro's insides.



Empathy said:


> t that point, endurance is the stat you’re looking for, which Zoro has in spades.


Mate zoro is not enduring a country level internal damage attack.

Who do you think he is, Kaido?


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> t that point, endurance is the stat you’re looking for, which Zoro has in spades.


Mate zoro is not enduring a country level internal damage attack.

Who do you think he is, Kaido?


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> ...
> Mate that is low top tier ... and it did jack shit to a top tier, the dude didn't move.
> 
> How was that a "top tier move" if the top tier was only scratched?



It left a permanent scar; that’s the opposite of just a scratch. Oden was more than a low top tier—Kaidou still has PTSD from fighting him. What exactly are Big Mom’s Haki feats that put her Haki significantly above Zoro’s or Oden’s? What are Law’s Haki feats that put him anywhere near any of them?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> It left a permanent scar; that’s the opposite of just a scratch.


It is a scratch.

It practically did nothing to him.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> What exactly are Big Mom’s Haki feats that put her Haki significantly above Zoro’s or Oden’s?


... SO I need to prove that a Yonko with Adv COC has better haki than a scrub that used for the first time COC this arc with the help of Enma.

You don't say.

In all your posts it seams we need to scale Zoro's dams stats to top tiers.

I now need to provide why a top tier that has Adv COC for decades and is again a top tier, why is that individual above Zoro by a  big margin in haki.

What next, do I need to prove that Mihawk is superior in all stats to Zoro even haki?


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> Because Hakai was bloked, SW can not be.
> 
> You said it yourself it does internal damage, the broken bones are an affter affect after Zoro ussd all his haki and the swords to block the damage.
> 
> ...



SW likely can’t be parried, as it bypasses durability entirely. Law said himself that the actual impalement does zero damage; it’s just used to set up the following attack. 




Ren. said:


> Mate zoro is not enduring a country level internal damage attack.
> 
> Who do you think he is, Kaido?



I already said that Law would never be able to keep his sword in Zoro long enough to use Puncture Willie on him. Puncture Willie and Shock Willie are different techniques. The latter is the one that broke BM’s ribs and the former is the one that created the giant hole. PW is a much bigger version of SW that takes a long time for Law to use.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> I already said that Law would never be able to keep his sword in Zoro long enough to use Puncture Willie on him.


And then you told me that Zoro now the moster haki user will brake his maito.

If only BM the top tier with way better stats did do that.



Empathy said:


> PW is a much bigger version of SW that takes a long time for Law to use.


It is a good thing that Zoro is not the same tier in durability to BM.

Zoro is dead even with a GN.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> ... SO I need to prove that a Yonko with Adv COC has better haki than a scrub that used for the first time COC this arc with the help of Enma.
> 
> You don't say.
> 
> ...



Of course you do. Big Mom’s had her sword blocked by Jinbe, had attacks blocked by Chopper, and hit unconscious Kid directly with a named attack from her sword, and still didn’t put him down. She didn’t put Ulti down with a named, elemental combo internal attack from her sword either. 

Zoro replicated a feat that only Oden ever did. Oden’s Haki is probably better than BM’s. It doesn’t really matter how long BM has been an aCoC user; Luffy’s been a aCoC user for an even shorter period than Zoro, and his Haki is already better than BM’s. Where is the argument that Zoro is only a 1% better Haki user than Law even coming from? He’s leaps and bounds better, and the only reason Law can compete is due to DF hax.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Zoro replicated a feat that only Oden ever did.


You mean the only Sword man that is focused on haki and sword did that.

What do you expect Luffy to scar Kaido?

Law to scar Kaido?


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> You mean the only Sword man that is focused on haki and sword did that.
> 
> What do you expect Luffy to scar Kaido?
> 
> Law to scar Kaido?



The point is that Zoro’s Haki is on the level of a top tier; Law can’t teleport him.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Oden’s Haki is probably better than BM’s. It doesn’t really matter how long BM has been an aCoC user; Luffy’s been a aCoC user for an even shorter period than Zoro, and his Haki is already better than BM’s.


Holy shit now a proper solid top tier can not have better haki than Oden but also Zoro has the same level as Oden, you don't say.



Empathy said:


> Luffy’s been a aCoC user for an even shorter period than Zoro, and his Haki is already better than BM’s.


You mean the dude that specilizes on COC that has COC for 2 years and just because a Yonko level fighter?

Again back to earth we are not comparing Zoro with a COC Specialist a haki specialist with all forms of haki that has the stats of a Yonko and has defeated Kaido to Zoro.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> The point is that Zoro’s Haki is on the level of a top tier; Law can’t teleport him.


Thank you Oda.

Too bad, Zoro is just a high tier with haki potential of a lowtop tier.

He only has top tier haki when he used Enma to the max.


Don't twist it, Luffy and Kaido have Haki in thier attacks that protect them from damage.


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## ShWanks (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> The point is that Zoro’s Haki is on the level of a top tier; Law can’t teleport him.


Didn't Kaido literally tank his attack without defending & only receive a  scar?


Ren. said:


> Thank you Oda.
> 
> Too bad, Zoro is just a high tier with haki potential of a lowtop tier.
> 
> ...


People often forget they stack AdCoC Haki with AdCoA. Their Haki is noticably stronger than Zoro's.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

@Empathy  I will admit defeat.

This is going no where.

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> People often forget they stack AdCoC Haki with AdCoA. Their Haki is noticably stronger than Zoro's.


You can not compare Zoro to Luffy.

Oda made it obvious, Zoro's Asura practically could not move Kaido, next panel Luffy with a regular punch knocks the shit out of kaido.

And those punches are doing 0.1% damage to Kaido, later  the dude was tanking over guns aka a KKG with adv COC.

And later the dude was facing an island level attack with adv COC and COA in it.


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> You said that Zoro can’t have Haki close to Big Mom’s, because he’s still a new user. I gave you an example of how Luffy’s a new user, and already better than her. What are BM’s great Haki feats again?


I think I explained that to you.

Luffy is practically a haki specialist.
And  COC is not new to him.

BM has comparable haki to Luffy, Zoro at max has low top tier potential.

Re-read the maga, what Zoro did in the last attacks aka Enma draining his haki Oden was doing it casually.


Zoro is a low top tier ADv COC user at max with Enma, Oden is a solid Top tier haki user causlly, BM is as Odem a solid top tier Haki user casualy, Luffy is as the other 2 a top tier haki user.


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## Empathy (Jun 1, 2022)

Ren. said:


> I think I explained that to you.
> 
> Luffy is practically a haki specialist.
> And  COC is not new to him.
> ...



I withdrew the comment once you conceded.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ren. (Jun 1, 2022)

Empathy said:


> I withdrew the comment once you conceded.


We will go in circles.

Practically you are telling me that because Zoro has access to Adv COC he wins vs Law.

Kaido said a stupid thing like that And Luffy overpower him with a DF and haki.

having stronger haki to Law will not make you immune to his DF, especially now with his awakening.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 2, 2022)

Law                                                                                                                                                              
Votes: 40                                                                                                                                                           
*69*.0%



nice


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

Zoro’s the better fighter with the better Haki. Law will have a really tough time landing PW on him. If he does, he basically wins. The problem is, Law’s attacks aren’t the easiest to land 1v1. Law’s greatest success as a fighter has been in a team setting. Zoro, on the other hand, has the CQC advantage, the Haki advantage. Without knowledge, I can see Law winning because I can certainly see Zoro attempting to block PW. With full knowledge, I’m sure Zoro wins.


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## trance (Jun 2, 2022)

either way

both are >= kid

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

Wh1p said:


> Nice cope


If Zoro didn’t have AdCoC, Kaido would be regarded as a scholar. His “handful of the strongest” and “Haki is the ultimate power” statements would be considered gospel. Since Zoro has it, though, and far superior overall Haki feats in general that most of the favorites here, Kaido’s a liar who has no clue about anything.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

trance said:


> either way
> 
> both are >= kid


Kidd > Law, just wait for his AdCoC


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 2, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Zoro’s the better fighter with the better Haki. Law will have a really tough time landing PW on him. If he does, he basically wins. The problem is, Law’s attacks aren’t the easiest to land 1v1. Law’s greatest success as a fighter has been in a team setting. Zoro, on the other hand, has the CQC advantage, the Haki advantage. Without knowledge, I can see Law winning because I can certainly see Zoro attempting to block PW. With full knowledge, I’m sure Zoro wins.





Conxc said:


> If Zoro didn’t have AdCoC, Kaido would be regarded as a scholar. His “handful of the strongest” and “Haki is the ultimate power” statements would be considered gospel. Since Zoro has it, though, and far superior overall Haki feats in general that most of the favorites here, Kaido’s a liar who has no clue about anything.





Conxc said:


> Kidd > Law, just wait for his AdCoC

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## trance (Jun 2, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Kidd > Law, just wait for his AdCoC


let's wait for him to show rudimentary proficiency with regular CoC first

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 2, 2022)

let's wait for Kidd to show rudimentary proficiency with basic haki/hardening first


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> let's wait for Kidd to show rudimentary proficiency with basic haki/hardening first


His attacks did very similar damage to BM despite him not having durability bypassing techs…like Law.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 2, 2022)

Conxc said:


> very similar damage to BM

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


SW and Corna Dio both broke her bones…One is pure blunt damage + Haki, the other is durability bypassing + Haki. Law should have done *way *more damage considering that, but he didnt.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 2, 2022)

this isnt a Kidd thread

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Conxc (Jun 2, 2022)

Don’t slander Widd then

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Jun 2, 2022)

Still Law. Not sure why folks keep opening new versions of the same threads as if hoping for a different result despite no new feat from either party.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Soba (Jun 2, 2022)

Kroczilla said:


> Still Law. Not sure why folks keep opening new versions of the same threads as if hoping for a different result despite no new feat from either party.


Cause people keep pushing their agenda of Zoro being second only to Luffy, which we all know won't be the case. 

He's the Rayleigh of this gen, nothing more and nothing less. There's always gonna be more impressive people than him like the Whitebeards, Shikis, rocks kaidos bms and the list goes on

He's the second strongest person in the crew and the STRONGEST subordinate, meaning he's always gonna beat whoever's second on the enemy lines, but he'll never beat the front guys. Kidd, Law BB even are people that only Luffy should be able to beat in the future, otherwise it just undermines his character. If Zoro can do what he can do then he won't be anything that special. There were reasons for all those scenes of Luffy Kidd and Law together.

Law's stronger if not by feats, which he totally is by the way ( I mean look at the size of the fucking hole he made) then by portrayal at the very least. He fought the stronger opponent, his fight was after Zoro's and was deemed much more important than his, too. The guy is a whole other kind of beast.

Reactions: Like 7 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Gabzy (Jun 2, 2022)

trance said:


> either way
> 
> both are >= kid


Kid is also stronger than Zoro

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Empathy (Jun 2, 2022)

Zoro outperformed both Law and Kid on the rooftop. Law and Kid both confirmed they didn’t get any stronger between the rooftop battle and fighting Big Mom, whereas Zoro did get stronger afterwards.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ShWanks (Jun 2, 2022)

Gamma Knife is enough

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Sieves (Jun 3, 2022)

Grinningfox said:


> Law is superior


Could’ve Closed the thread after the first reply.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Okkutsu (Jun 3, 2022)

This debate will never end


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## Mihawk (Jun 4, 2022)

Law wins.

He is the disciple that Mihawk wish he had.

Jk.


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## Heart Over Blade (Jun 4, 2022)

Zoro is lucky Mihawk didn't train Law and Law has no top tier tutor. Otherwise he'd surpass Mihawk even sooner.


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## Yagami Uchiha (Jun 4, 2022)

Shunsuiju said:


> Either way Zoro will end up being stronger because both are swordsmen


Law isn’t a pure swordsman. He’s a DF user too. Anyway, Law wins because his DF is too op.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MrPopo (Jun 4, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Zoro replicated a legitimate top tier’s best feat (Oden) in scarring Kaidou. Zoro has top tier level Haki already, he just has poor stamina with it. Zoro’s Haki is significantly closer to Big Mom’s than it is to Law’s.


Laws attacks was still  worked on Kaido and big mom

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

TheMoffinMan said:


> Whoever lands the first clean hit wins. Both are fully capable of beating the other.


You can count disable ifrit hit on that too plus flash  light speed...


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## ShWanks (Jun 4, 2022)

Redline said:


> You can count disable ifrit hit on that too plus flash  light speed...


That's too high for folks

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Yagami Uchiha said:


> Law isn’t a pure swordsman. He’s a DF user too. Anyway, Law wins because his DF is too op.


I think the same

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> That's too high for folks


Still .considering the match up sanji is a better match up against law since he is too quick for him and can get the first hit! If he frit that is a ko


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## ShWanks (Jun 4, 2022)

Redline said:


> Still .considering the match up sanji is a better match up against law since he is too quick for him and can get the first hit! If he frit that is a ko


Yeah people don't know how strong an Infrit Bouf Burst is at beyond Lightspeed. Speed is weight. That attack is  low top tier attack potency.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mercurial (Jun 4, 2022)

This comes from the Usopp Pirate Gallery, where fans send their drawings and Oda gives them a comment based on the content. Well, guess what? *Oda's comment on this was* *"A* *gathering of swordsmen! Get cut and it'll hurt!"*.





Not to mention that Law's strongest move is... infusing his Room in his sword.
Funnily enough.

And yet the delusional ones "Law is not a swordsman"... lmao Kaku's strongest move doesn't even include his sword (it's a cut, yes, but with his legs and the DF enhanced body) and he still called himself a swordsman!

But, like it or not, Oda's comment is there. Like it or not, he thinks as Law, Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, as swordsmen. Don't like? Argue against Oda.

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Yeah people don't know how strong an Infrit Bouf Burst is at beyond Lightspeed. Speed is weight. That attack is  low top tier attack potency.


And still room for improvement..but same can be said for law and zoro therefore they all gonna be up there at the end...I imagine Luffy vs Imu and the rest vs gorosei so Zoro , Sanji , Yamato , law and kid!


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## Soba (Jun 4, 2022)

Wouldn't say he outperformed Law on the roof.  All he really bought to that fight was AP, and even there he was way outmatched by Luffy in that regard. I think the safes, disruptions and combos(also respectable AP in his own right) that Traffy brought were much more important in that fight than anything Zoro did. Sure, he scarred Kaido, yet that didn't really effect him all that much now did it? I mean look at what he did after that attack and tell me it was some sort of a big deal. It was played more for a storytelling perspective of Zoro replicating Oden's feat and also hint to his CoC. And even then it was used to hype up Luffy, as the grandmaster made a point of how he couldn't bring Kaido down on his back, even with his strongest attack yet Luffy doing it in the next several panels. The scar he gave Kaido didn't even come close to matching Oden's one also, so that's a thing. 

Again all Zoro has is AP. Law just fought a monster that had much more firepower than him, and did just fine. Even if you bring the the 2v1 scenario, Kidd was disabled and by law's own words a bit of a burden, so you could argue he was on his own, or even worse because he had to look out for Kidd. Zoro doesn't have future sight to predict Law's jukes and faints, doesn't have BM's crazy skin(and even if he did Law bypasses that) doesn't have the speed advantage( Law can teleport) and doesn't have the versatility advantage( I mean, look at everything Law can do with his DF). All he brings is lethality and AP, and Law's much better than him at that. Keep in mind Law is gonna dictate the pace of this fight, not Zoro. He's the one that can position himself wherever he wants, not Zoro. He decides if it's gonna be close range, long range, mid range or whatever range. All Zoro can really do is chase him, leaving himself open for more counter attacks, and against a person like Law, if you aren't a freakin giga tank like BM or Kaido, that's a terrible idea. Law has much more stamina than Zoro too, as he fought a longer battle against a stronger opponent without any breaks or magical medicine. The dude is just a monster. An exceptional figure of this generation, behind only people like Luffy and Blackbeard. He's a fair bit above Zoro, and is also a terrible match up for him.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 4, 2022)

Law even surpassed Zoro in AP anyway with that enormous hole

not to mention breaking BM bones


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> This comes from the Usopp Pirate Gallery, where fans send their drawings and Oda gives them a comment based on the content. Well, guess what? *Oda's comment on this was* *"A* *gathering of swordsmen! Get cut and it'll hurt!"*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what..skill wise in pure swordsmanship aside anything else mihawk tips them all and Zoro will too, but the rest it's what still give those other top tier swordsman an edge in same case , die to haki or df power added to their swordsman skill..look at Roger for instead he wasn't really a skilled swordsman..but with his haki it made it almost unstoppable even by better skilled swordsman by default like what happened to oden for instead
Bottom like is Haki> haki swords> swords


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Wouldn't say he outperformed Law on the roof.  All he really bought to that fight was AP, and even there he was way outmatched by Luffy in that regard. I think the safes, disruptions and combos(also respectable AP in his own right) that Traffy brought were much more important in that fight than anything Zoro did. Sure, he scarred Kaido, yet that didn't really effect him all that much now did it? I mean look at what he did after that attack and tell me it was some sort of a big deal. It was played more for a storytelling perspective of Zoro replicating Oden's feat and also hint to his CoC. And even then it was used to hype up Luffy, as the grandmaster made a point of how he couldn't bring Kaido down on his back, even with his strongest attack yet Luffy doing it in the next several panels. The scar he gave Kaido didn't even come close to matching Oden's one also, so that's a thing.
> 
> Again all Zoro has is AP. Law just fought a monster that had much more firepower than him, and did just fine. Even if you bring the the 2v1 scenario, Kidd was disabled and by law's own words a bit of a burden, so you could argue he was on his own, or even worse because he had to look out for Kidd. Zoro doesn't have future sight to predict Law's jukes and faints, doesn't have BM's crazy skin(and even if he did Law bypasses that) doesn't have the speed advantage( Law can teleport) and doesn't have the versatility advantage( I mean, look at everything Law can do with his DF). All he brings is lethality and AP, and Law's much better than him at that. Keep in mind Law is gonna dictate the pace of this fight, not Zoro. He's the one that can position himself wherever he wants, not Zoro. He decides if it's gonna be close range, long range, mid range or whatever range. All Zoro can really do is chase him, leaving himself open for more counter attacks, and against a person like Law, if you aren't a freakin giga tank like BM or Kaido, that's a terrible idea. Law has much more stamina than Zoro too, as he fought a longer battle against a stronger opponent without any breaks or magical medicine. The dude is just a monster. An exceptional figure of this generation, behind only people like Luffy and Blackbeard. He's a fair bit above Zoro, and is also a terrible match up for him.


Perfect summary..this is why I can see sanji as a better match up then ziro against law ipotetically


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## Mercurial (Jun 4, 2022)

Redline said:


> And still room for improvement..but same can be said for law and zoro therefore they all gonna be up there at the end...I imagine Luffy vs Imu and the rest vs gorosei so Zoro , Sanji , Yamato , law and kid!


Yeah, Oda will definitely put Sanji with the big boys, like he did in chapter 1000 with the big fight against the Yonkos on Rooftop...

Oh wait... I don't see Sanji here... hm why



Where did Oda put him in the meantime the strongest rising pirates leading the next generation were fighting the strongest established pirates of the old generation?
Oh yeah... he had Sanji playing pathetic BDSM games with a Tobi Roppo and her underlings.


Love how some like to conveniently make as this never happened

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Soba (Jun 4, 2022)

So what's the argument of WB picking up a sword and owning mihawk with it? Or Luffy getting one and punching Zoro to death with the hilt 

King used a sword. Yet he proclaimed himself to not be a swordsman just this arc. Law is a swordsman, but it's not his only weapon. I doubt if Law beats Zoro 10 years in the future or so that he'd himself proclaim that he's the world's strongest swordsman, as even he would know Zoro surpasses him in swordsmanship. Also it's always better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big one ( Zoro on the roof )

Also yea it's a good thing Oda put Sanji with the small fries where he really belongs:


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> Yeah, Oda will definitely put Sanji with the big boys, like he did in chapter 1000 with the big fight against the Yonkos on Rooftop...
> 
> Oh wait... I don't see Sanji here... hm why
> 
> ...


Lolol...Zoro fan will always be salty at oda for having created a Pervy cook who can equals Zoro as a chicken wing


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## Mercurial (Jun 4, 2022)

Redline said:


> So what..skill wise in pure swordsmanship aside anything else mihawk tips them all and Zoro will too, but the rest it's what still give those other top tier swordsman an edge in same case , die to haki or df power added to their swordsman skill..look at Roger for instead he wasn't really a skilled swordsman..but with his haki it made it almost unstoppable even by better skilled swordsman by default like what happened to oden for instead
> Bottom like is Haki> haki swords> swords


The fan made "pure swordsmanship" doesn't exist, is a fan made headcanon created by delusional people that try to downplay Mihawk and therefore Zoro 

I guess Zoro is also a Hakiman instead of a swordsman... Mihawk also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman...
Oden also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman!
Such frauds! 



Funny but interesting fact that should tell everything.
*When Mihawk trained Zoro, what did he teach him? Some sword tricks to show greater skill with the blade? No... he teached him Haki.*
Try again. Cope.



Redline said:


> Lolol...Zoro fan will always be salty at oda for having created a Pervy cook who can equals Zoro as a chicken wing


"When you can't answer on facts, just insult people ad hominem with cringeworthy fan made headcanons"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 4, 2022)

I think someone is winning the poll, but Im not sure ..

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> The fan made "pure swordsmanship" doesn't exist, is a fan made headcanon created by delusional people that try to downplay Mihawk and therefore Zoro
> 
> I guess Zoro is also a Hakiman instead of a swordsman... Mihawk also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman...
> Oden also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman!
> ...


Zoro and mihawk doesn't need to be downplayed to understand what their role is...the rest it's all fun for us  to speculate one way or  another, same get salty some gives a shit about it

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I think someone is winning the poll, but Im not sure ..


By a double digit two lol


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## Joker55 (Jun 4, 2022)

Zoro high diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> The fan made "pure swordsmanship" doesn't exist, is a fan made headcanon created by delusional people that try to downplay Mihawk and therefore Zoro
> 
> I guess Zoro is also a Hakiman instead of a swordsman... Mihawk also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman...
> Oden also is a Hakiman, not a swordsman!
> ...


I wonder why is so difficult to understand the difference better been skilled with a  sword and be a swordsman or sword master! 
Was Roger a sword master? 
Is Mihawk a swordmaster?
You choose . XD


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Anyway at this point in the story law seems to be more important then zoro story wise..law is a  D and Zoro ain't shit not even shimosucky.


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## TheNirou (Jun 4, 2022)

Zoro extreme diffs. Law needs better feats in 1v1 but once Oda will give him his AdCoC, he will be above Zoro I guess.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Code said:


> Zoro is Ryuma.


Reincarnation ?


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 4, 2022)

Law Kidd and Zoro are in the same tier, though Law and Kidd are slightly stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Jun 4, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Law Kidd and Zoro are in the same tier, though Law and Kidd are slightly stronger.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Almageste (Jun 4, 2022)

Law is a Zoro with only 75-80% of his attack power (endurance/stamina is actually close considering the beating Law took), but with 200% more hax. Zoro is portrayed as being his best in life and death situations, but Law was portrayed as Luffy’s peer/rival, not wing/first mate.
Law extreme diffs as Zoro will leave him with serious injuries.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Almageste said:


> Law is a Zoro with only 75-80% of his attack power (endurance/stamina is actually close considering the beating Law took), but with 200% more hax. Zoro is portrayed as being his best in life and death situations, but Law was portrayed as Luffy’s peer/rival, not wing/first mate.
> Law extreme diffs as Zoro will leave him with serious injuries.


Yeah and law will leave him with a leg switch with one arm lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 4, 2022)

Almageste said:


> Law is a Zoro with only 75-80% of his attack power


PW made a hole equal to the one from Bajrang gun

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> PW made a hole equal to the one from Bajrang gun


Yeah and for once I quote  king of lighting when he says law swordfeat is the best ever seen so far in the verse

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mercurial (Jun 4, 2022)

Almageste said:


> Law is a Zoro with only 75-80% of his attack power (endurance/stamina is actually close considering the beating Law took), but with 200% more hax. Zoro is portrayed as being his best in life and death situations, but Law was portrayed as Luffy’s peer/rival, not wing/first mate.
> Law extreme diffs as Zoro will leave him with serious injuries.


In Dressrosa Gear 4 Luffy stomped around the guy that stomped Law

Then Luffy got a power up in WCI while Law was doing nothing 

Then in Onigashima, Luffy got three power ups while Law got one, and Luffy alone by himself in 1 vs 1 achieved what Law needed Kidd with him to be in a 2 vs 1. And if Kaido was also damaged by Zoro and Yamato, and weakened by holding the island, well at least Luffy straight up defeated him with a KO in 1 vs 1 , while Law + Kidd barely achieved a BFR in 2 vs 1 against Big Mom, who is a good deal weaker than Kaido, needing some massive PIS and an external deus ex machina (the bombs).

Calling Law as Luffy's peer is nothing more than complete wishful thinking. Luffy is as strong as Law + Kidd, and that's with me being generous with them.

Luffy >> Zoro (close right hand man) > Law/Kidd (wannabe rivals, they are strong but not even comparable to Luffy)

When all of them fought at the same moment in the same place with the same opportunities against the same opponents, it's undeniable that Rooftop Zoro > Rooftop Law >= Rooftop Kidd.
After the power ups, Zoro got the one portrayed as the greater one ("Roger didn't need abilities... Haki surpasses it all"), so it's obvious that Current Zoro > Current Law >= Current Kidd.
And their final benchmarks to reach and surpass and their final goals to achieve go in the same obvious direction: remember that, like it or not, does it make sense in your opinion or not, but Oda thinks Law as a swordsman.

Reactions: GODA 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> In Dressrosa Gear 4 Luffy stomped around the guy that stomped Law
> 
> Then Luffy got a power up in WCI while Law was doing nothing
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mercurial (Jun 4, 2022)

That's the smartest face you could ever put up
I'm impressed

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 4, 2022)

PW alone did more damage than all of Zoros Wano attacks put together

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> That's the smartest face you could ever put up
> I'm impressed

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 4, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> PW made a hole equal to the one from Bajrang gun


Is it warm and tight though ?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Lewd 1


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## Grinningfox (Jun 4, 2022)

Ushiromiya Battler said:


> Is it warm and tight though ?


Ayooo

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Almageste (Jun 4, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> PW made a hole equal to the one from Bajrang gun


True, but by attack power I don’t mean DC. Puncture Willie is due to law’s fruit, not physicals in my opinion. Law’s hax creates DC, but in pure swordsmanship/haki without fruit usage, Law is clearly inferior to Zoro.

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Redline (Jun 4, 2022)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Empathy (Jun 4, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Laws attacks was still  worked on Kaido and big mom



I was just referring to Law being able to warp Zoro wherever he pleases.


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## Skaddix (Jun 4, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> Yeah, Oda will definitely put Sanji with the big boys, like he did in chapter 1000 with the big fight against the Yonkos on Rooftop...
> 
> Oh wait... I don't see Sanji here... hm why
> 
> ...



Hmm so the real question is does Sanji even clear Killer?

Also Damn Law needs some talent. Luffy has 2 Rooftop level fighters besides himself, Kid has One, and Law has jack shit.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 4, 2022)

Law can easily warp Zoro

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## MrPopo (Jun 5, 2022)

Empathy said:


> I was just referring to Law being able to warp Zoro wherever he pleases.


Zoro would have to have haki on the same  level of big mom and kaido something Luffy only accomplished when he fought Kaido after getting thrown off onigashima

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Beast (Jun 5, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Again all Zoro has is AP. Law just fought a monster that had much more firepower than him, and did just fine. Even if you bring the the 2v1 scenario, Kidd was disabled and by law's own words a bit of a burden, so you could argue he was on his own, or even worse because he had to look out for Kidd.


Well, this is a lie… law never carried Kidd anywhere. 


Only the OL would have you believe that characters statements somehow carry any kinda of weight all the while ignoring what’s actually on panel. 

Law attacked BM when she was paying attention to Kidd… literally up until the last chapter or two, BM got up from every attack be it from law or Kidd and went after Kidd, so to think Law had to carry any part of this fight on his own is just silliness especially after seeing what happens when it’s a 1v1 between him and BM.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Empathy (Jun 5, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Zoro would have to have haki on the same  level of big mom and kaido something Luffy only accomplished when he fought Kaido after getting thrown off onigashima



Zoro’s Haki is a lot closer to theirs than it is to Law’s.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Jun 5, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Zoro’s Haki is a lot closer to theirs than it is to Law’s.


Which means nothing unless you believe Zoro's haki is on the level on a yonkou

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Gledania (Jun 5, 2022)

Whoever hit first win.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Canute87 (Jun 5, 2022)

Redline said:


> Law hand down! His df is too op for zoro sorry


Yeah but law has no distraction to land a hit, kroom and room can't be used simultaneously.

Zoro has the COC haki and oden's sword to break law's sword in half.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 5, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> law has no distraction to land a hit


he never needed one


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## Canute87 (Jun 5, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> he never needed one


He kinda  needed one against smoker and flamingo.

And the pressure current Zoro can put on him is rather immense.

Law needs the physical strength to at least throw  zoro off balance some times to get in a strike,  I'm not seeing where he has that.

 The DF is not an issue as the issue lies more with law.

Zoro managed to halt an attack from two yonkou while law with his DF got flung back by kaido , and was never shown stopping an attack head on from big mom.

If this is a  any team battle then law's usefulness  and threat increases exponentially but in a one on one i wouldn't bet on him.

Reactions: Like 4 | Disagree 2


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## Bash24 (Jun 5, 2022)

CoC>DF

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Soba (Jun 5, 2022)

Zoro ain't the one putting the pressure on this fight for sure. Just look at his fight with King. King was the more mobile one putting on the pressure for most of the fight. Law is also way more mobile than Zoro, and in some ways he even surpasses King with his shambles. He's gonna be the one putting the pressure on the Z-man not the other way around. He's also the one who's gonna control the range, meaning he can fight at whatever range he finds suits him best.

Law took several attacks from BM and Kaido, so some casual swings or attacks from Zoro ain't putting him down. He needs a big finisher, and I doubt he's hitting one against Law. 

Law is also capable enough to create his own openings to attack, as seen in the Smoker fight. From the King fight we found out that Zoro is kind of easy to hit. He makes up for it with great durability and endurance, but that just won't pass against Law's attacks.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gorilla Cook (Jun 5, 2022)

I used to think it would be close. 

Zoro crushes Law now. His DF tricks will only delay the inevitable.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Soba (Jun 19, 2022)

Sooo.... Who's still claiming Zoro's beating one of Luffy's 2 main rivals

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

If having the same bounty means being portrayed as equals... then the brown thing out of dog's butt is chocolate.

Love coherence of people who, until yesterday, were saying that Luffy >>> Kidd/Law (as he actually is) ... and now suddenly call Kidd and Law as Luffy's peers in strength because "lolbounties", just to bash on Zoro and his fandom.

The way Zoro lives rent free in people's head is unbelievable. Well he must find a lot of empty space in there.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

The 3B captain beats the 1.XB lackey

Reactions: Like 4


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> The 3B captain beats the 1.XB lackey


A 4,5 billions for Luffy and 2,5 each for Law and Kidd would have made perfect sense, given Luffy's much greater previous bounty and his much greater strength and his much greater achievements.

"Oh no you are just a terrible Zoro fanboy, Zoro Zoro Zoro I hate Zoro, Zoro is shit, I have to insult Zoro and his fans at least thrice a day otherwise I don't feel satisfied"

No.. I am actually saying that 2,5 billions for Law and Kidd is perfectly fine, which is almost the same to 3 billions.
And I have never thought that Zoro should have more than them, on the opposite, he always had a bounty lower than theirs, because the captains receive far more than their underlings, it has always been. Even when Zoro and Luffy were very close in power, still Luffy had almost double the bounty that Zoro had.

Arguing that lolbounties = power levels is just terrible, whoever it does and for whatever reason and agenda he does that.
Not surprising here, given the massive bias.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ShWanks (Jun 19, 2022)

Bruh the Zoro stans here are in something strong. Kid & Law are clearly portrayed as closer to Luffy than his lackey.

Also giving a Yonko high diff in 2v1 >> defeating weakest YC1 that gets low diffed by Yonko & Admirals...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> A 4,5 billions for Luffy and 2,5 each for Law and Kidd would have made perfect sense, given Luffy's much greater previous bounty and his much greater strength and his much greater achievements.
> 
> "Oh no you are just a terrible Zoro fanboy, Zoro Zoro Zoro I hate Zoro, Zoro is shit, I have to insult Zoro and his fans at least thrice a day otherwise I don't feel satisfied"
> 
> ...


2.5B Law still beats 1.XB lackey


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## Soba (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> If having the same bounty means being portrayed as equals... then the brown thing out of dog's butt is chocolate.
> 
> Love coherence of people who, until yesterday, were saying that Luffy >>> Kidd/Law (as he actually is) ... and now suddenly call Kidd and Law as Luffy's peers in strength because "lolbounties", just to bash on Zoro and his fandom.
> 
> The way Zoro lives rent free in people's head is unbelievable. Well he must find a lot of empty space in there.


Not portrayed as equals..

As rivals.

Big difference there.

Like it or not the author went out of his way to keep them close to Luffy relevance wise. Them getting the same bounty absolutely implies Oda sees them as rivals. All of their interactions prior are also pretty clear for that, but now the proof is undeniable. 

Which brings me to my question... Does anyone think Zoro's gonna be beating Luffy's rivals? 

Can anyone of you envision Rayleigh beating WB? Or Shiki? 

There's positions and levels to this. 

Manga would have been boring if Zoro was able to defeat Lucci at EL. Same principle applies to Zoro being able to defeat guys who are clearly Luffy's opponents.


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Not portrayed as equals..
> 
> As rivals.
> 
> ...


A biased guy on the internet "Rayleigh sure can't compare with Whitebeard"

Oda in his manga, through the very mouth of the most knowledgeable character on the thing, given his being one of the main characters of that age and perfectly knowing both Whitebeard and Rayleigh...
*Has them portrayed as guys of the same exact kind.*




Was Whitebeard still stronger than Rayleigh? Sure. But not by much, clearly, otherwise this wouldn't make any sense. And it's said from Garp who has perfect and utmost knowledge on them.

*More importantly.
Law for Luffy is not Whitebeard was for Roger. Kidd for Luffy is not Whitebeard was for Roger.*

Whitebeard was pound for pound as strong as Roger, it's even debatable who actually was the strongest between them or if they weren't completely on par.
Law is much weaker than Luffy.
Kidd is much weaker than Luffy.
Luffy is literally twice as strong as them, judging by the clearest comparison that everyone can do: he winning 1 vs 1 fair and square against a stronger opponent than the one they defeated in 2 vs 1, needing massive help from an external deus ex machina.

So sorry... but you are completely wrong.

Reactions: Like 3


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## ShWanks (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> A biased guy on the internet "Rayleigh sure can't compare with Whitebeard"
> 
> Oda in his manga, through the very mouth of the most knowledgeable character on the thing, given his being one of the main characters of that age and perfectly knowing both Whitebeard and Rayleigh...
> *Has them portrayed as guys of the same exact kind.*
> ...


Stop taking that Garp statement out of context. All the panel says is that Rayleigh & WB are both strong old era pirates not that they are the same caliber. Stretching harder than G5...


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Stop taking that Garp statement out of context. All the panel says is that Rayleigh & WB are both strong old era pirates not that they are the same caliber. Stretching harder than G5...


That's for interpretation. Giving Garp's utmost knowledge of both of them, it could very well be argued differently.

But, funny thing is that it doesn't even matter.
Law and Kidd's relationship in strength with Luffy has nothing to compare with Whitebeard's with Roger.
The latter were on par, between the former there's a immense gap, Luffy is literally twice as strong as them.
Completely different thing.
The argument " Whitebeard was stronger than Rayleigh" loses any relevance when Law and Kidd have nothing to compare, strength wise, with Luffy, while Whitebeard equalled Roger.


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## ShWanks (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> That's for interpretation. Giving Garp's utmost knowledge of both of them, it could very well be argued differently.
> 
> But, funny thing is that it doesn't even matter.
> Law and Kidd's relationship in strength with Luffy has nothing to compare with Whitebeard's with Roger.
> ...


Yet Oden doesn't get the same hype despite Kaido doing this exact same thing for Oden & Whitebeard given his uttermost knowledge of both even moreso than Garp. The narratives here.


Who said anything about Kid being his WB? Kid just outright has better feats & portrayal from bounty, to being Luffy's rival vs his lackey


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

ShWanks said:


> Yet Oden doesn't get the same hype despite Kaido doing this exact same thing for Oden & Whitebeard given his uttermost knowledge of both even moreso than Garp. The narratives here.


Dunno what you are talking about.



ShWanks said:


> Who said anything about Kid being his WB?


The guy literally said that Zoro can't be stronger or equal with Law and Kidd because Rayleigh was not with Whitebeard. 
Which doesn't make any sense at all given that not only Rayleigh is comparable to Whitebeard, but also, more importantly, Kidd and Law for Luffy doesn't even remotely compare with what Whitebeard was for Roger. 



ShWanks said:


> Kid just outright has better feats


Fake, when they fought the same opponent in the same place in the same moment, Zoro outperformed him massively in every possible issue. Speed, reactions, endurance, attacking power, defense, achievements, portrayal, everything.

- The tornado from Kaido that stomped Kidd's mecha away, Zoro could overpower and cut through wounding Kaido, receiving praise from Kidd's right hand man and Big Mom.
- Zoro made the Yonkos worry in fear for their incolumity, they laughed off Kidd's attacks.
- Zoro with Ashura damaged Kaido much more than Kidd's Punk attacks did.
- Kidd was helpless and worthless against the Hakai, Zoro was fast enough to intercept it and strong enough to block it enough to make the others save themselves. The cocky Kidd who always want to be in the spotlight had to thank Zoro for saving his life.

In the one and only issue we can make a perfect comparison on equal basis, Zoro proved to be stronger than Kidd.



ShWanks said:


> portrayal from bounty


Fake, especially now that we know that you can have the same exact bounty of a guy and still be massively weaker than him.
Not to mention that Zoro always had a lower bounty than Law and Kidd... and still that didn't stop him from massively outperforming them in the only issue when they fought in the same place in the same moment against the same opponent.
After that they powered up massively and Zoro received the greater power up ("Haki surpasses it all"). He was stronger then, he is stronger now. Obviously slightly, they are in the same tier.



ShWanks said:


> to being Luffy's rival vs his lackey


Doesn't mean shit when he is light years below Luffy
Means shit also when Zoro is a Supernova as well
And when Zoro so many times is portrayed with the "why he is not the captain" "he must be the real captain" "why is he not a captain of his own crew" and so on

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> A biased guy on the internet "Rayleigh sure can't compare with Whitebeard"
> 
> Oda in his manga, through the very mouth of the most knowledgeable character on the thing, given his being one of the main characters of that age and perfectly knowing both Whitebeard and Rayleigh...
> *Has them portrayed as guys of the same exact kind.*
> ...





Mercurial said:


> That's for interpretation. Giving Garp's utmost knowledge of both of them, it could very well be argued differently.
> 
> But, funny thing is that it doesn't even matter.
> Law and Kidd's relationship in strength with Luffy has nothing to compare with Whitebeard's with Roger.
> ...





Mercurial said:


> Dunno what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> The guy literally said that Zoro can't be stronger or equal with Law and Kidd because Rayleigh was not with Whitebeard.
> ...


Didnt read, touch grass

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Didnt read, touch grass


Not surprised 




Given this, I wasn't expecting more

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 19, 2022)

Advanced CoC > Awakening

Advanced CoC Zoro > Kroom Law >>>> Rooftop Zoro >> Law w/o Kroom

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Advanced CoC > Awakening


False and false!


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> False and false!






Oh wait.
That idiot Kaido, such unknowledgeable third rate character who is merely a Yonko who has both CoC Haki and a DF.
What the f*** is he even supposed to know!?

Shiba D. Inu obviously knows much better.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> Oh wait.
> That idiot Kaido, such unknowledgeable third rate character who is merely a Yonko who has both CoC Haki and a DF.
> What the f*** is he even supposed to know!?
> 
> Shiba D. Inu obviously knows much better.


Kaido is a dumb loser, yes

And now he is dead despite his haki

Reactions: Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## KBD (Jun 19, 2022)

Zoro's bounty will be 3,1B

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Tsukuyomi (Jun 19, 2022)

KBD said:


> Zoro's bounty will be 3,1B


I will cream my pants if that is the case.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Soba (Jun 19, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Advanced CoC > Awakening
> 
> Advanced CoC Zoro > Kroom Law >>>> Rooftop Zoro >> Law w/o Kroom


Did you see what Law pulled with awakening? 

How is anything Zoro did even remotely comparable to that?

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 19, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Did you see what Law pulled with awakening?
> 
> How is anything Zoro did even remotely comparable to that?


both of them can injure top tiers with their moves. Zoro's has better stamina and is stated to be a superior powerup. Law is also a sowrdsman so he will be surpassed eventually, if not now. 

Zoro has higher durability as well. Law has better movement.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Did you see what Law pulled with awakening?
> 
> How is anything Zoro did even remotely comparable to that?


Indeed 

You are comparing Post Power Up Law's finishing move with Pre Power Up Zoro's finishing move

Current Ashura with conscious Adv CoC infused >>> Rooftop Ashura with basic CoC unscosciously exerted 

Current Zoro > Current Law >> Rooftop Zoro > Rooftop Law

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soba (Jun 19, 2022)

xmysticgohanx said:


> both of them can injure top tiers with their moves. Zoro's has better stamina and is stated to be a superior powerup. Law is also a sowrdsman so he will be surpassed eventually, if not now.
> 
> Zoro has higher durability as well. Law has better movement.


Not sure if Zoro's tankier than Law tbh, but let's assume that for a moment.  Law just so happens to have attacks that are bypassing your durability. All he really needs to do is land a Gamma Knife on Zoro and It's gg. That attack is much easier to hit than anyone of Zoro's high end moves. Not to mention his Kroom attacks are also faster and easier to hit than Zoro's. 

Zoro doesn't have better stamina than Law. He collapsed after his fight with King, which was a much shorter one than Law's against BM. He also didn't collapse right after the fight. Ain't no way their stamina is comparable. Not to mention he didn't get any rest or magical medicine before the fight, too. 


Law is about as much of a swordsman as we can consider a person like Kaku or Big Mom. Yes, they are swordsmen but their power goes much beyond that. Ask yourself this= Who wins between swordless Law and DFless Law. 



Mercurial said:


> Indeed
> 
> You are comparing Post Power Up Law's finishing move with Pre Power Up Zoro's finishing move
> 
> ...



You honestly think Dragon Damnation is comparable to PW? Did you not see the destruction that attack brought? Current Zoro is never replicating that feat. Not even close.

Rooftop Law was> Rooftop Zoro. Zoro didn't do anything more impressive than Law on the roof.  Ashura was stated to Have CoC in it by Kaido. Even if we make Ashura twice as strong, he still wasn't doing anything of significance to Kaido. A nastier wound, yes but that's about it.


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Not sure if Zoro's tankier than Law tbh, but let's assume that for a moment.  Law just so happens to have attacks that are bypassing your durability. All he really needs to do is land a Gamma Knife on Zoro and It's gg. That attack is much easier to hit than anyone of Zoro's high end moves. Not to mention his Kroom attacks are also faster and easier to hit than Zoro's.


Law can't use Shambles while he uses Kroom because the Room isn't around him anymore but focused into the sword.
Meanwhile he used Puncture Wille he was tagged by Big Mom of all people. Go figure what would happen if he tries to approach Zoro close.

Law and Kidd attacked every time with the advantages of the 2 vs 1, also against a slow character who likes to tank.
Completely different thing is a 1 vs 1.
In fact, who is the strongest character that Law fought and defeated entirely in 1 vs 1?


SobaHat said:


> Law is about as much of a swordsman as we can consider a person like Kaku or Big Mom. Yes, they are swordsmen but their power goes much beyond that. Ask yourself this= Who wins between swordless Law and DFless Law.


Cope. Oda called Law a swordsman.
Like it or not.



SobaHat said:


> You honestly think Dragon Damnation is comparable to PW? Did you not see the destruction that attack brought? Current Zoro is never replicating that feat. Not even close.


The Ashura that scarred Kaido didn't even remotely brought as much destruction as Pre Enma Dressrosa Daisensekai.
Guess the second is much stronger. Obviously it's not, but going by your reasoning it should be.


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## Soba (Jun 19, 2022)

Mercurial said:


> Law can't use Shambles while he uses Kroom because the Room isn't around him anymore but focused into the sword.
> Meanwhile he used Puncture Wille he was tagged by Big Mom of all people. Go figure what would happen if he tries to approach Zoro close.
> 
> Law and Kidd attacked every time with the advantages of the 2 vs 1, also against a slow character who likes to tank.
> ...




Law can get close to Zoro no problem. Zoro isn't just slashing him like butter the moment he steps close to him.

That being said, Law doesn't need PW to beat Zoro. Gamma knife ends him. You honestly think after how badly Zoro got blitzed by King that Law ain't tagging him? SW also ends Zoro, and he can for sure surprise him with the extending sword and catch him no problem with that. 

Big Mom was able to tank those, Zoro wouldn't. 

Again, doesn't answear my question. I don't care what Oda calls him, the fact is that DFless Law is much weaker than Swordless Law, and you know it. As for the swordsman part, Kaku was considered a so called swordsman by Oda, and he spend half his fight against Zoro without even using his swords. By that logic Luffy can pick up a sword EoS and slap the fuck out of Zoro with it. Do you think in that scenario Luffy's gonna be a better swordsman or the WSS? What if Whitebeard picked up a Sword and beat the crap out of Mihawk with it, would he be the WSS? The WSS isn't such a cheap title, stop downplaying it. 

We're not talking about simple destruction, but also damage it dealt to the character. Make that Ashura twice as strong, do you think it does anything significant or potentially fight ending to Kaido like PW did to BM? Guess not.


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## Igor (Jun 19, 2022)

Lei will always be 1 level above Zoro

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Typhon (Jun 19, 2022)

Law clears


Canute87 said:


> *He kinda  needed one against smoker* and flamingo.
> 
> And the pressure current Zoro can put on him is rather immense.
> 
> ...


I don't understand how you could start with that and then proceed to say he couldn't create a distraction against the less mobile Zoro

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## Canute87 (Jun 19, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Law clears
> 
> I don't understand how you could start with that and then proceed to say he couldn't create a distraction against the less mobile Zoro


A sea stone jutte poke can't compare the vast level of destruction wano zoro can achieve though.

Even back in PH Smoker look off half a rock while zoro was cleaning house with a punk hazard dragon.


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## Mercurial (Jun 19, 2022)

The "less mobile Zoro" is so poorly mobile that he managed to tag and defeat a flying YC1 no where else than... right in mid air

Reactions: Like 1


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## Typhon (Jun 19, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> A sea stone jutte poke can't compare the vast level of destruction wano zoro can achieve though.
> 
> Even back in PH Smoker look off half a rock while zoro was cleaning house with a punk hazard dragon.


Law has more destructive power then Zoro. If you're arguing Zoro's aoe is too insane, I could just as easily flip that argument for Law


Mercurial said:


> The "less mobile Zoro" is so poorly mobile that he managed to tag and defeat a flying YC1 no where else than... right in mid air


I suggest you reread that fight. There was like an entire point about how Zoro had trouble tagging King.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Jun 19, 2022)

Latest chapter does hype Kid and Law's performance a lot. Though Zoro is still stronger than the Calamities by quite a significant margin so there's no way to tell as of now.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Law > Zoro is canon

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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 19, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> All he really needs to do is land a Gamma Knife on Zoro and It's gg. That attack is much easier to hit than anyone of Zoro's high end moves. Not to mention his Kroom attacks are also faster and easier to hit than Zoro's.


That's assuming Zoro doesn't block it with his swords. 


SobaHat said:


> Zoro doesn't have better stamina than Law. He collapsed after his fight with King, which was a much shorter one than Law's against BM. He also didn't collapse right after the fight. Ain't no way their stamina is comparable. Not to mention he didn't get any rest or magical medicine before the fight, too.


Medicine wore off. Law already implies Zoro has far better durability than him. Law couldn't block the Hakai and was especially surprised to see Zoro still be able to move and even scar Kaidou after it. That's Oda showing us Law can't do the same thing.


SobaHat said:


> Law is about as much of a swordsman as we can consider a person like Kaku or Big Mom. Yes, they are swordsmen but their power goes much beyond that. Ask yourself this= Who wins between swordless Law and DFless Law.


Oda calls Law a swordsman



SobaHat said:


> Rooftop Law was> Rooftop Zoro.


Stopped reading after that.


SobaHat said:


> You honestly think after how badly Zoro got blitzed by King that Law ain't tagging him?


Considering Zoro performed similarly, if not superior to, Law on the rooftop; Law would struggle to hit him. They are on a similar level after all.


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## Bash24 (Jun 19, 2022)

Zoro's the perfect counter to law. 

 A Haki master can withstand DF hax as evidenced on the RT. 

Law could not use his powers freely against big mom and Kaido whom both are Coc users. 

It can be inferred CoC gives significant resistance to laws DF powers.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Bash24 said:


> A Haki master can withstand DF hax as evidenced on the RT.


yeah but not Zoro
he is just a mere yonkou subordinate

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Bash24 (Jun 19, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah but not Zoro
> he is just a mere yonkou subordinate


Law is not a yonko and he's a loser.

Zoro is riding on the winning ship buddy.

edit - sorry i misread that. Still while Zoro does not have haki as good as a yonko, he has much better haki than Law. Zoro's haki game should be approaching yonko level and is way better than your average yonko commander.

He blocked a point blank explosion from King using CoA taking no damage and now he has the ability to coat himself with CoC which is a big game changer,

For sure that's going to be a big advantage against someone like Law. It won't completely stop his attacks but at least it will prevent some of other hax abilities from being used, like being warped around or soul swapped. Law could easily do that to Kid but he won't be able to do so with Zoro.

Law obviously would win some rounds but i personally think Zoro would win the the majority. At the end of the day Zoro is the more relevant character.

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## Bernkastel (Jun 19, 2022)

Law was the reason BM lost in the first place...if his attacks can hurt BM to the point she begs him to stop, Zoro will not do any better...Kroom too stronk

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## Gorilla Cook (Jun 19, 2022)

Y'all need to pull Law's sword out of your mouths. Law might have a higher max output, but Zoro does not have to make any sacrifices to use his strongest moves. As soon as law goes for kroom, he won't be able to the rest of his abilities. Even Zoro's mid tier ACOC moves will do massive damage to law. Only thing that law has that can seriously damage Zoro outside of his awakening is gama knife, but that requires him to get close.

Law will be able to stall with teleportation and environment manipulation, but will get overwhelmed eventually.

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## Weaboo37 (Jun 19, 2022)

Zoro win high diff, "haki surpasses all" law's basic haki got obliterates by zoro's advances coc not only that his hax is useless here, also feats and portrayal goes to zoro after rooftop

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## TrolonoaZoro (Jun 19, 2022)

Bernkastel said:


> Law was the reason BM lost in the first place...if his attacks can hurt BM to the point she begs him to stop, Zoro will not do any better...Kroom too stronk


The reason big mom lost was explicitly falling off an island and getting nuked twice, she literally ate every attack Kid and Law gave her. They're not powerful enough to defeat the weakest yonkou or even break their durability.

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## Sieves (Jun 19, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Kaido is a dumb loser, yes
> 
> And now he is dead despite his haki


Agreed, Kaido is dead by magma

what he said is irrelevant , what matters is facts and portrayal (what we see in action)

and the fact of the matter is we just had a plant paramecia roll up and no diff king and Queen no CoC haki required

Law is strong enough to parry Zoro in cqc because he has no problem clashing swords. Law beats Zoro by portrayal and by feats and it’s not really a question.

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## TrolonoaZoro (Jun 19, 2022)

Law never came close to have an attack on Dragon Blaze level for AP, and that was pre Adcoc which make Zoro way more lethal.
He has nothing compared to blocking Hakai in terms of outright strength. Really only Dragon Kaido in his advance form has performed something like that. And Zoro's endurance is so far beyond Law it's almost comical.

Law can't create openings vs Yonkou. Zoro straight up called for Kaido's attention before outpowering. Kaido who's a much more competent CQC fighter than Big Mom. 

The only hope Law has is an environmental factor getting in the way like a deep fall, if the battle is on land, it's ggs for him.

Law has no feat, fighting style, or hype to try keep up with Zoro.

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## Canute87 (Jun 19, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Law has more destructive power then Zoro. If you're arguing Zoro's aoe is too insane, I could just as easily flip that argument for Law


Kroom wise yes.   But outside of that he loses to zoro on accounts of physical strength and haki.

He doesn't look like he can  simultaneously use Kroom and Room.  Time he spends buttering up his sword Zoro can attack.

I mean every time he landed kroom on big mom was due to distractions. So that was obvious to me that it wasn't going to land otherwise 

If law and Zoro clash head on Zoro would outright  and break his sword.  Zoro  has COC haki + The Ennma giving him G4  like boosts.

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## Canute87 (Jun 19, 2022)

Bash24 said:


> Law is not a yonko and he's a loser.
> 
> Zoro is riding on the winning ship buddy.
> 
> ...




Law has a 3 billion bounty.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bash24 (Jun 19, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> Law has a 3 billion bounty.


So? It doesn't equate to strength. 

It should be more realistically 2B if we're going by measure of strength.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 19, 2022)

Bash24 said:


> So? It doesn't equate to strength.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Ren. (Jun 19, 2022)

@Beast  take your win.

Zoro> Kid was a joke.

Now 3B Kid < Zoro is an even less funnier joke.

How the heck would an awakened Magnetic DF user will not be above a sword user with inferior feats and yes defeating BM with Law shits on defeating king when King and Queen were neg diffed by an Admiral.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Lewd 1


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## Ren. (Jun 19, 2022)

Sieves said:


> Law beats Zoro by portrayal and by feats and it’s not really a question.


It never was.

Law's DF is broken AF.

You need Yonko level Haki now to negate that shit.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Soba (Jun 20, 2022)

Even if Haki triumphs all as Kaido said, Law has Haki as well. And that's on top of his insane devil fruit. Law is using both. 

Zoro's Haki is nowhere near Yonkou level. His Haki reserves are also pretty low. Law seems to have more than him, he just doesn't know how to use the advance versions yet. Remember, his fight was much longer and with no breaks or recovery's. 

Law's abilities can perfectly affect Zoro. He had no problem using them on people like Vergo and Dofla at the time, who were arguably above him in the Haki department back then.

Zoro gets hit a lot in his fights. Problem when fighting Law is, you can't afford for that to happen at all. One Kroom or GF, and you're done. 

Law withstood attacks from BM, who was wailing on him. He took a full ACoC attack from Kaido, and went on to showcase some of the most insane AP feats in the series and defeating a Yonko. 

Law's not gonna have any problem hitting Zoro in a 1v1 fight. He had no problem tagging opponents like Smoker and Dofla, who rely much more on movement and evasions than Zoro. 

Imagine the scene where King blitzed and kicked Zoro. Now imagine it with Law doing the same thing, but instead of a kick he uses GF. What happens then? Law can for sure replicate that with shambles, and it's for sure gonna hit. Even if Zoro counters with the slash he did, he's still only gonna wound Law, who in turn is gonna kill Zoro. 

Who you are fighting with matters. Feats against Lucci will look much better than feats against Kaku. Same goes for BM and King. 

Everything Zoro did against King will not look as impressive as with Big Mom. In turn, everything Law did against Big Mom will look a lot more impressive against King. 

Portrayal also matters. Like it or not, Law and Kidd's fight came after Zoro. Their opponent was stronger than Zoro. They got equal bounty as his Zoro's captain, meaning Oda views the 3 of them as rivals and peers. Luffy's the strongest, but Oda clearly sees the other 2 as the closest one behind him. 

Is Zoro beating Luffy's rivals? No. They are his opponents. EoS, there are gonna be things that only Luffy's gonna be able to do. Beating Kidd and Law is one of them. 

Before people go all Kidd and Law aren't Luffy's wb because they aren't equals in power, Roger and WB probably weren't always equal either. There for sure were times in their younger years where one of them was ahead of the other. There's a good argument to be made that Roger was stronger than WB at god valley. 

Luffy's just insane and develops a lot faster. Doesn't mean Kidd or Law won't eventually reach a level close to his. They'll never be able to beat him, but they are gonna be the closest pirates to his ballpark outside BB. 

The facts keep speaking. They got equal bounties. Oda keeps on portraying them in competitive nature with Luffy. They fought the stronger opponent. Law has always went up against stronger people than Zoro in every arc they shared.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 20, 2022)

Roger could fight WB just fine despite the latter having the strongest paramecia on top of great haki (something Law doesn't have). The stats are just distributed differently. Zoro outclasses Law vastly in haki and physical stats.

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## Bernkastel (Jun 20, 2022)

TrolonoaZoro said:


> The reason big mom lost was explicitly falling off an island and getting nuked twice, she literally ate every attack Kid and Law gave her. They're not powerful enough to defeat the weakest yonkou or even break their durability.


She didn't eat every attack, she was clearly feeling them especially Law's. Kidd was there mainly for support though but still he was helping too. As for them breaking her durability they don't have too. Specifically Law has abilities to bypass it completely and if he can bypass BM's durability then he can for sure bypass Zoro's. Law's hax is probably the most dangerous in the whole manga and given the rate he's advancing there is not gonna be a lot of people that will be capable of beating him unless he dies.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perrin (Jun 20, 2022)

Law stabs him in the shoulder

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## Casval Rem Aznable (Jun 20, 2022)

The fodder who got bullied by Doffy dies horribly. Law's only relevancy lies in being a support

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## Danyboy (Jun 20, 2022)

Doffy literally catched Law's sword w bare hand. Imagine him trying to face Zoro head on when there is no distraction.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 20, 2022)

Danyboy said:


> Doffy literally catched Law's sword w bare hand. Imagine him trying to face Zoro head on when there is no distraction.


DR Doffy spanks DR Zoro

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## Danyboy (Jun 20, 2022)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> DR Doffy spanks DR Zoro


Well, im pretty sure Zoro can cut off Doffy's fingers, whe he tryes to catch Zoro's sword and that is immensely more that what Law achived. Oh and also that scratch.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 20, 2022)

Danyboy said:


> Well, im pretty sure Zoro can cut off Doffy's fingers, whe he tryes to catch Zoro's sword and that is immensely more that what Law achived. Oh and also that scratch.


Nah, DR Doffy catches DR Zoros swords and spanks him

as for Zoro vs Law - Law shambles that mere commanders head into his ass

Reactions: Agree 3 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jun 20, 2022)

Danyboy said:


> Doffy literally catched Law's sword w bare hand. Imagine him trying to face Zoro head on when there is no distraction.


Laws severed arm defeated the peer of the guy that zoro needed orlumbus help to defeat....

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## Turrin (Jun 20, 2022)

The fight could easily got ether way as both Zoro and Law have AP that can easily kill the other one; and nether are at a level of speed where they can dodge each other’s hits easily. If I had to guess who would win more often then not, I would go with Law though, as Law is more intelligent then Zoro and has more versatility/hax due to his DF that Zoro doesn’t have with most of his attacks being fairly straight forward.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## bil02 (Jun 20, 2022)

For those saying Zoro has lower endurance than law or that his haki reserves are low(lower than law's),ask yourself the following;

-Can Law take on Hakai for a second,have 30 broken bones and then proceed to shred a BM homie to pieces,then produce an attack that manages to leave permanent damage on Kaido?

-Can law use Enma in its unleashed state(going all out) and use haki for longer periods of time than Zoro did? Even G4 Luffy considered to be an haki master couldn't pre Coc coating.


Zoro is meant to be a character having people surprised he serves someone else as he could be a captain in his own right,law and Kid being rivals to Luffy means they always get to fight stronger opponents than Roronoa not that he is lacking compared to them as we saw on the rooftop.

If Zoro wasn't on Kid and law's level,Oda wouldn't find a way to get rid of him through 2 emperors combined attack,he would've had him beat fair and square and then the 3 captains taking on Kaido and BM in a 3vs2.

Law and Zoro are on the same level whoever you think wins,people just have issues with this because they think it means Sanji too isn't far from law or that law is far from luffy.

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## bil02 (Jun 20, 2022)

On the rooftop when Zoro was performing his feats,the consensus was:
>"Nah Luffy is the one focusing the emperors' attention,it's a team battle that doesn't translate into 1vs1".

Later against Big Mom,Kid and Law are literally using each others' distractions to land hits,now it's
>"Nah Law and Kid are obviously strong enough to bodybag anyone not emperor level 1vs1".


Portrayal and feats indicate both law and Kid are immensely strong in their own rights but I'm not even sure any of them beats post Marineford Teach was running away from Akainu preskip and that Teach is certainly nowhere near Yonkou level.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jun 20, 2022)

bil02 said:


> For those saying Zoro has lower endurance than law or that his haki reserves are low(lower than law's),ask yourself the following;
> 
> -Can Law take on Hakai for a second,have 30 broken bones and then proceed to shred a BM homie to pieces,then produce an attack that manages to leave permanent damage on Kaido?
> 
> ...


The first point has nothing to do with haki reserves.

The second point is irrelevent, because law doesnt need enma to fight at commander level, so his stamina isnt draining nearly as much.

Zoro needs enma to fight close to laws level, so hes stuck with a stamina debuff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TrolonoaZoro (Jun 20, 2022)

Bernkastel said:


> She didn't eat every attack, she was clearly feeling them especially Law's. Kidd was there mainly for support though but still he was helping too. As for them breaking her durability they don't have too. Specifically Law has abilities to bypass it completely and if he can bypass BM's durability then he can for sure bypass Zoro's. Law's hax is probably the most dangerous in the whole manga and given the rate he's advancing there is not gonna be a lot of people that will be capable of beating him unless he dies.


It's not a matter of needing to or have to.
Big mom falling off the island plus 2 explosions defeated Big mom.
If it wasn't for her durability people wouldn't have half the issue of defeating big mom.
Not being able to bypass it, creates the fight we saw. One that was dependent on environmental factor and plot convenience.

Bypassing Zoro's durability is irrelevant when his trick is endurance.

You really can't believe Law's hax is the most dangerous when the dude was useless against Kaido and Big Mom if it wasn't for his awakening and his awakening wasn't close to defeating big mom as she ate 3 hits and still continued, forcing Kid and Law to go the removing off island route.

And Big Mom is the top tier most heavily reliant on durability in the manga. So Law's awakening is the MOST useful against her. Law's fruit exist for fighting against Big Mom. 

Law is already HARD CAPPED.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bil02 (Jun 20, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> The first point has nothing to do with haki reserves.
> 
> The second point is irrelevent, because law doesnt need enma to fight at commander level, so his stamina isnt draining nearly as much.
> 
> Zoro needs enma to fight close to laws level, so hes stuck with a stamina debuff


Kid if you could read,you'd realise the first 2 points was adressed to people thinking Zoro has inferior *Endurance* and Haki to law...

The rest of your post is not worth responding to,have a nice day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freechoice (Jun 20, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Roger could fight WB just fine despite the latter having the strongest paramecia on top of great haki (something Law doesn't have). The stats are just distributed differently. Zoro outclasses Law vastly in haki and physical stats.


You Zoro wankers try your DARNEDEST don't you

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## Typhon (Jun 20, 2022)

Canute87 said:


> Kroom wise yes.   But outside of that he loses to zoro on accounts of physical strength and haki.


No even before Kroom. People conveniently forget that he took out a mountain range when he slayed Vergo. I think the physical strength argument is never actually based on feats. I saw Law endure a beating from Big Mom, but Zoro is supposed to be able to muscle him around? 


Canute87 said:


> He doesn't look like he can  simultaneously use Kroom and Room.  Time he spends buttering up his sword Zoro can attack.


I don't think he needs kroom for Zoro 


Canute87 said:


> If law and Zoro clash head on Zoro would outright  and break his sword.  Zoro  has COC haki + The Ennma giving him G4  like boosts.


If Law lands anything mes tier and up, Zoro loses. Kaidou couldn't break Law's sword with a TB. Let's not get ahead of ourselves

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## Soba (Jun 20, 2022)

I'm taking their feats into consideration. 

Law took a beating from Big Mom. Zoro took a beating from King. Law was still standing and conscious after his fight, Zoro was not. 

Law didn't start the battle against BM fresh, Zoro started his fight against King fresh. 

In no way shape or form is King dealing more damage with his attacks than Big Mom. BM was wailing on Law and Kidd, and later used Law as a punching bag when he was prepping up PW. BM's attacks hurt a lot more than King's. Law took those attacks and was still standing. Zoro took King's attacks and collapsed after winning the fight. 

All of those argument also apply to Law having vastly superior stamina than Zoro, too. Longer fight, no breaks, was still standing and was ready to make a last stand against Kaido. We don't know if Zoro would have been able to get back up and run around like Sanji because the medicine's side effect kicked in, but he showed no signs of being able to get up or defend himself when he saw the grim reaper, so there's that. 

All of that is manga facts. 

With that being said, Law surpasses Zoro in speed, versatility, ways to attack/end the fight, range, stamina for sure, attack power, lethality, AP/DC and is a great deal smarter than him. 

All Zoro has on Law is what? Physical strength and advanced haki?  All Zoro's haki does for him is increase his AP, and even then he still doesn't surpass Law's. 

I'm bringing the fact that Zoro gets hit. A lot. What happens when Law tags him with a Gamma Knife? What about MES? Shock Wille? 

You think he's just gonna walk off his organs getting turned into spaghetti? He's nowhere near the level of durability of Kaido or Big Mom, and Law's attacks were breaking bones and forcing BM to use her precious lifespan to heal her injuries. 

Zoro can't do that. He's gonna get hit by Law sooner or later, and then the fight is just over. If you aren't a monster tank like Kaido or BM, or have haxx like Dofla, you can't afford to take on Law's attacks.

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## Heart Over Blade (Jun 20, 2022)

While BM needs many hits thanks to her Yonkou level haki blocking Law's most broken hax, it only takes one hit to finish Zoro with Mes or Amputate.  Zoro can't really do the same to Law when Law can fight BM for an extended period. Asura can easily be countered by keeping distance with Shambles for about a minute until Asura runs out. Zoro is someone Law can Shambles, because we've seen him do it and because they are still on the same tier.

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Canute87 (Jun 20, 2022)

Typhon said:


> No even before Kroom. People conveniently forget that he took out a mountain range when he slayed Vergo. I think the physical strength argument is never actually based on feats.


Seeing law raise a ship with a finger should be clear his capabilities isn't directly correlected to his physical strength.  The mountain cut was simply the range of his room.



Typhon said:


> I saw Law endure a beating from Big Mom, but Zoro is supposed to be able to muscle him around?



Indeed we did we saw big mom beat law with a reverse blade sword  sword.  But seeing that Zoro is an actual swordsman   he'll just cut him.  hell he can probably just stab him ad activate haki drain killing law on spot.



Typhon said:


> I don't think he needs kroom for Zoro


Kroom just won't connect period.  Worse case it's asura vs kroom.....a coc haki induced ennma boost ashura.



Typhon said:


> If Law lands anything mes tier and up, Zoro loses. Kaidou couldn't break Law's sword with a TB. Let's not get ahead of ourselves


Up until the zoro's resurrection I had law being better than zoro because i felt he could create an opening.

Now that's a big no.  Law NEEDS COC haki from his end to even back the playing field.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dark (Jun 21, 2022)

Probably Law


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> I'm taking their feats into consideration.
> 
> Law took a beating from Big Mom. Zoro took a beating from King. Law was still standing and conscious after his fight, Zoro was not.
> 
> Law didn't start the battle against BM fresh, Zoro started his fight against King fresh.


Are some of you guys litteraly forgetting that zoro had his entire bones broken in rooftop AND that he took hits from the yonko as well ??? 
Zoro started his fight fresh ??? 
I feel like the level of two piece readers is growing more and more this years.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> Are some of you guys litteraly forgetting that zoro had his entire bones broken in rooftop AND that he took hits from the yonko as well ???
> Zoro started his fight fresh ???
> I feel like the level of two piece readers is growing more and more this years.


Mink medicine got him back to 100 hp for the prize of double the damage afterwards. It's written in the manga. Zoro was as fresh as he could be in that fight.

In fact, one would argue King was in a much worse state, having fought Marco beforehand. Took a toll on his stamina and also took some damage from him. Fought non-stop afterwards, too. 

... But those guys would be twopiece readers. Same ones that claim Law and Kidd didn't beat BM


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Mink medicine got him back to 100 hp for the prize of double the damage afterwards. It's written in the manga. Zoro was as fresh as he could be in that fight.


Yeah but chopper said there will be some after side effect to his body.
Taking stimulant for a short time and strengthening someone always comes with a price. That's basic science.


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> Yeah but chopper said there will be some after side effect to his body.
> Taking stimulant for a short time and strengthening someone always comes with a price. That's basic science.


and the after side effects came after his battle with King. The thing that put him in such a bad shape after it all was the side effect of the medicine. 

The whole point of it was a high risk, high reward scenario.  Zoro was at a 100% when fighting King. Same can't be said for Kidd or Law in their fight against BM, making their feats that much more impressive.


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> and the after side effects came after his battle with King. The thing that put him in such a bad shape after it all was the side effect of the medicine.
> 
> The whole point of it was a high risk, high reward scenario.  *Zoro was at a 100% when fighting King. Same can't be said for Kidd or Law in their fight against BM, making their feats that much more impressive.*


I'm fine with the bolded.
But , him fainting AFTER his fight is not just because of King.
That was my point.


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## Danyboy (Jun 21, 2022)

Zoro was off because of medicine. Literally stated in the manga after he fainted.


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> I'm fine with the bolded.
> But , him fainting AFTER his fight is not just because of King.
> That was my point.


He did faint, or was just laying down with his eyes closed. Point is, just like Sanji, he woke up afterwards. The medicine took it's effect after the grim reaper encounter, as we saw he was awake before that.


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> I'm fine with the bolded.
> But , him fainting AFTER his fight is not just because of King.
> That was my point.


Him fainting right after his fight with king is 100% from exhaustion of using enma. Then a few chapters later he gets all his damage doubled as the grim reaper shows up.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

Zoro already felt the medicine's side effects during his fight with king. There are panels of him bleeding despite not even being hit or getting injured. Anything beyond that is made up by haters.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Zoro already felt the medicine's side effects during his fight with king. There are panels of him bleeding despite not even being hit or getting injured. Anything beyond that is made up by haters.


Can you show them? Don't seem to recall 

Pretty sure he was bleeding all over the place because he was getting thrashed by King all over onigashima. That would make you bleed, you know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> He did faint, or was just laying down with his eyes closed


He just defeated his opponent. And there was no ennemy around him.

What did you expect him to do outside taking time to recover ?

+ it's vague to assume the medicine effect didn't  start draining his energy by that point. Every symptoms don't need to start at the same time.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jun 21, 2022)

Medicine wasnt stated to drain energy. Like, i dono, enma.


Gledania said:


> He just defeated his opponent. And there was no ennemy around him.
> 
> What did you expect him to do outside taking time to recover ?
> 
> + it's vague to assume the medicine effect didn't assume start draining his energy by that point. Every symptoms don't need to start at the same time.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Medicine wasnt stated to drain energy. Like, i dono, enma.



Bro.

You know what happen when you boost up someone metabolism and immune system in a short term , right ?

You realize zoro healed in a minute what he needed to heal in a very long time ? 

You know this consume a shit tones of energy

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> Bro.
> 
> You know what happen when you boost up someone metabolism and immune system in a short term , right ?
> 
> ...


Aaaand again, headcannon.

That never stated at all in the manga. The whole point of the drug was bringing Zoro back up to 100%. He was at his best, with no hinderances against King. He neither felt weird, or injured or damaged because of the side effects of the medicine during his fight.  Zoro himself stated he was reaching his limit stamina wise because of Enma. Never once was feeling weird or the drug brought up by him. The one who was noted and claimed his body was feeling weird was Sanji. Don't get the two of them confuse ( Tho, they're so close power level wise I can see why you confuse the 2 ).

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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Can you show them? Don't seem to recall
> 
> Pretty sure he was bleeding all over the place because he was getting thrashed by King all over onigashima. That would make you bleed, you know.




*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jun 21, 2022)

Gledania said:


> Bro.
> 
> You know what happen when you boost up someone metabolism and immune system in a short term , right ?
> 
> ...


Bro, when was it stated that the medicine boosted zoros metabolism or immune system. Its literally called miracle medicine in a manga with devil fruits and youre trying to apply real world logic.

Its stated to completely heal zoro, and then to double the damage later and thats it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 21, 2022)

Law - Votes: 80 -* 69*.0%

Reactions: Creative 1 | Lewd 1


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> Aaaand again, headcannon.
> 
> That never stated at all in the manga. The whole point of the drug was bringing Zoro back up to 100%. He was at his best, with no hinderances against King. He neither felt weird, or injured or damaged because of the side effects of the medicine during his fight.  Zoro himself stated he was reaching his limit stamina wise because of Enma. Never once was feeling weird or the drug brought up by him. The one who was noted and claimed his body was feeling weird was Sanji. Don't get the two of them confuse ( Tho, they're so close power level wise I can see why you confuse the 2 ).



I did not state that the vaccine exhausted him DURING the fight.  
I said it did after.
You see zoro facing king and defeating him.

Then later you see him AWAKE and grim reaper comes in.


And you don't need the manga to tell you that healing your metabolism in short time take a lot of energy. You need common sens.  

Do you also need manga evidence that zoro is breathing 24/h ?


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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Bro, when was it stated that the medicine boosted zoros metabolism or immune system. Its literally called miracle medicine in a manga with devil fruits and youre trying to apply real world logic.
> 
> Its stated to completely heal zoro, and then to double the damage later and thats it.


Devil fruit ? No one talked about DF.

Wtf are you talking about ?

That's how a body heals itself.
You don't heal magically someone without consuming energy


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> *Spoiler*: __


He's literally clashing with King in both those pages, no? It was never stated that the medicine was the thing that was putting Zoro on the timer, only that Enma was draining his Haki too fast.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> He's literally clashing with King in both those pages, no? It was never stated that the medicine was the thing that was putting Zoro on the timer, only that Enma was draining his Haki too fast.



What is he getting injured by then?

He literally blitzes king and is injured in the process?  

Draining haki is not going to make your body bleed without receiving any injuries.

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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> What is he getting injured by then?
> 
> He literally blitzes king and is injured in the process?
> 
> Draining haki is not going to make your body bleed without receiving any injuries.


 On the first panel he might have gotten injured in the exchange with King, which he won. 

On the second one it seems like the same wound.  When you move fast and clench your muscles it usually makes open wound bleed. 

Regardless of all of that, the fact is he wasn't hindered by the medicine during the fight. It was a big plot point, and would have for sure been brought up. Kind of like how Sanji's body feeling weird was.

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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> On the first panel he might have gotten injured in the exchange with King, which he won.
> 
> On the second one it seems like the same wound.  When you move fast and clench your muscles it usually makes open wound bleed.
> 
> Regardless of all of that, the fact is he wasn't hindered by the medicine during the fight. It was a big plot point, and would have for sure been brought up. Kind of like how Sanji's body feeling weird was.



There is no exchange and it's nowhere shown that King injured him with anything. 



The injury is not inflicted by King.

It comes from the medicine and been mentioned often enough at this point.



Chopper confirms it.


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## Soba (Jun 21, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> There is no exchange and it's nowhere shown that King injured him with anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


there's a huge Later part. 

not now, not in small burst, but later. 

If anybody thinks the medicine played any part in the Zoro vs King fight, other than getting him back on his feat then I dunno 

The whole narrative and point of the fight was Enma draining Zoro's haki reserves too fast. It was literally said on panel that he didn't have much longer before *HIS* sword kills him. Nowhere was the medicine side effects mentioned. 

It's fanfiction if you think that it is

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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

SobaHat said:


> there's a huge Later part.
> 
> not now, not in small burst, but later.
> 
> ...



Later is already post the point of regeneration/healing and it's nowhere said that he receives the entire piece with 1 bite.

Medicine = double damage statement:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Damage shown/done to the body without being injured in battle:


*Spoiler*: __ 













Haki drain/overuse stated and shown:


*Spoiler*: __ 


















Enma been explicitly shown and stated to drain the haki of the wielder:



Zoro wasn't shown to be dried to a husk post AdvCoC unlock unlike before so Enma has nothing to do with any damage, especially bleeding, it's something you just made up.

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## AnimePhanatic (Jun 21, 2022)

If Zoro had a problem with his body acting up due to the mink medicine during the fight, he'd have said so, but he didn't. His problem was Enma, which was highlighted multiple times, not mink medicine side effects. Arguing that the mink medicine did something DURING the fight is headcannon.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> If Zoro had a problem with his body acting up due to the mink medicine during the fight, he'd have said so, but he didn't. His problem was Enma, which was highlighted multiple times, not mink medicine side effects. Arguing that the mink medicine did something DURING the fight is headcannon.



Chopper's statement and Oda drawing random blood splashes disagrees. Your opinion on the matter doesn't change this fact.


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Winner 1


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## AnimePhanatic (Jun 21, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Chopper's statement and Oda drawing random blood splashes disagrees. Your opinion on the matter doesn't change this fact.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


What fact is there?
You're assuming without evidence that the medicine side effects started kicking in during the fight, and using Chopper's statement as proof, that's not how it works.
What IS fact is that Oda offpanelled a lot of most fights in Wano. Zoro bleeding from an offpanelled battle is much more plausible than this headcannon you're pushing.
Also, Zoro bleeding is as a result of King's attacks, getting ragdolled and being unable to completely block some attacks. Getting flung around from one part of the island to another would surely make anyone not a durability freak like Big Mom or Kaido or Luffy(G5) bleed, wouldn't it?
Then Zoro failing to block attacks like the one he himself said "I couldn't block it?".
Again, if Zoro were hampered by the mink medicine, he'd have said so.

Unless you think Zoro couldn't bleed or be damaged by the above stated and think only Hakai-level attacks, which woulda killed Zoro had Law not intervened, is what can damage him or make him bleed at this point.

MINK MEDICINE DID NOT HAMPER ZORO DURING HIS FIGHT!!!

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## TrolonoaZoro (Jun 21, 2022)

The concept of Oda off paneling the panel where King tags Zoro in a chapter that is nothing but Zoro vs King has to be the wildest comment I've read in a while, lmao. 

Zoro is on the attack, says King is blocking i.e DEFENSIVE, yet Zoro is bleeding and we're supposed to think that Oda just happened to offpanel King's attack? 

The drug clearly gives you a _temporary _healing, and "doubles the damage" which means how damaged Zoro is does not leave his body, he's just able to perform WHEN PREVIOUS TO THE DRUG, He couldn't.  The drug is akin to an adrenaline boost more than a magic bean, hence the damage "returning" 

So presuming that Zoro randomly bleeding is not due to how HURT he already is has to be top tier delusion.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 21, 2022)

AnimePhanatic said:


> What fact is there?
> You're assuming without evidence that the medicine side effects started kicking in during the fight, and using Chopper's statement as proof, that's not how it works.



Except it does since Chopper thinks the double damage side effect of the medicine can occur anytime after the recovery including during the fight.



AnimePhanatic said:


> What IS fact is that Oda offpanelled a lot of most fights in Wano. Zoro bleeding from an offpanelled battle is much more plausible than this headcannon you're pushing.



Show me evidence of King injuring Zoro in the instance of injury occuring out of nowhere or don't respond at all. Your assumption is baseless.



AnimePhanatic said:


> Also, Zoro bleeding is as a result of King's attacks, getting ragdolled and being unable to completely block some attacks. Getting flung around from one part of the island to another would surely make anyone not a durability freak like Big Mom or Kaido or Luffy(G5) bleed, wouldn't it?
> Then Zoro failing to block attacks like the one he himself said "I couldn't block it?".
> Again, if Zoro were hampered by the mink medicine, he'd have said so.



There are multiple panels of Zoro getting injured by king were he bled, these are not:





You have no evidence that king injured him here and if that's lasting damage from the previous ragdolling he received from king I suggest you back that up with something. Since you like statements from Zoro wouldn't he have said here that the wounds king caused him opened up again?





AnimePhanatic said:


> *Unless you think Zoro couldn't bleed or be damaged by the above stated* and think only Hakai-level attacks, which woulda killed Zoro had Law not intervened, is what can damage him or make him bleed at this point.



Well you have very little evidence for the bolded. Looking forward to the mental gymnastics your ilk fabricates to justify that claim.



AnimePhanatic said:


> MINK MEDICINE DID NOT HAMPER ZORO DURING HIS FIGHT!!!



It did, it's stated to cause double damage unlike Enma that only dries up the limb Zoro holds the blade with, which didn't happen post AdvCoC.

I go with that clear statement instead of your biased opinion based on half-truths.

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## Gledania (Jun 21, 2022)

"And now it's doubled" imply the hits from king did twice damage btw

Reactions: Agree 1


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