# Batman vs Solid Snake (fists only)



## Akira (Jul 23, 2008)

Batman isn't allowed his grappling hook, batarangs etc and Snake isn't allowed guns, bombs, rocket launchers or his knife. Neither of them have prep time, and no stealth is involved. Snake isn't affected by sped up aging, and can use CQC. Who wins?


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## Vault (Jul 23, 2008)

snake owns batman


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## Dio Brando (Jul 23, 2008)

punch punch spin kick


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## Vault (Jul 23, 2008)

Dio Brando said:


> punch punch spin kick



 

CQC fucks up batman


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## Superrazien (Jul 23, 2008)

Snake owns.


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## Fang (Jul 23, 2008)

Solid Snake is between Superhuman and Peak Human.

Batman can still probably hold his own considering his gone up against the likes of Slade, David Cain, ect...


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## Kameil (Jul 23, 2008)

Batman barely manages to hold off against Snake but not for long.


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## Pintsize (Jul 23, 2008)

Didn't Old Snake beat Vamp in hand to hand?


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## The World (Jul 23, 2008)

Snake + CQC + Mullet = rape.


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## Zetta (Jul 23, 2008)

Snake has fought superhumans in H2H (Gray Fox) and beat the crap out of them.


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## HumanWine (Jul 23, 2008)

Batman wtfstomps.

Batman has done moar with a Batarang than Snake has done with a gun.


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## zan (Jul 23, 2008)

i would have to say batman....


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## Vault (Jul 23, 2008)

batman gets owned ¬_¬


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## Batosaims (Sep 6, 2010)

Batman would beat Snake in about 3 seconds


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## Stilzkin (Sep 6, 2010)

Doesn't Batman have mastery of almost every martial arts?


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## Batosaims (Sep 6, 2010)

Stilzkin said:


> Doesn't Batman have mastery of almost every martial arts?


 indeed he does


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Sep 6, 2010)

This is a 2 year old thread. 

Necroing old threads is frowned upon.


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## Basilikos (Sep 6, 2010)

Nerco'd a two year old thread? 

A bit late to be commenting on the match-up, guys.


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## Batosaims (Sep 6, 2010)

Madara42 said:


> Also,


Well it's pretty much true, maybe when Snake can break a pair of hand cuffs I might start taking him seriously


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## masamune1 (Sep 6, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> Well it's pretty much true, maybe when Snake can break a pair of hand cuffs I might start taking him seriously



He did, in MGS2.

Though yeah, Batman would destroy him.


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## Ultra (Sep 6, 2010)

Snake dodged a rail gun bullet and held his own in CQC against superhumans.

I don't care how many fucking martial arts Batman knows.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Sep 6, 2010)

Snake also roflstomped several armed guards with CQC alone, despite them surrounding him.


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## Ky Hakubi (Sep 7, 2010)

Damn but I can't decide. They both are able to contend with some pretty fucked up adversaries, both have excellant combat abilities, and they're both fucking awesome characters... I'm leaning towards Batman, but at the same time that doesn't feel right...

Regardless of who came out on top, it'd be an epic fight.


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## paulatreides0 (Sep 7, 2010)

Why the fuck would you necro a two year old thread?

Also, Old Snake has hypersonic reflexes. Snake Prime should shit on Old Snake in pretty much every category. Furthermore, Snake has been shown to be very good at CQC and has not only kept up with but actually defeated superhumans such as Vamp and Cyborg Ninja (Frank) in H2H combat.


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

masamune1 said:


> He did, in MGS2.
> 
> Though yeah, Batman would destroy him.


 Actually he only did it in MGS2 because the cuffs were damaged by stray gun fire, and even then he still struggled for several minutes before finally breaking them, Bats can snap a pair with his thumbs alone


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

UltraDoots said:


> Snake dodged a rail gun bullet and held his own in CQC against superhumans.
> 
> I don't care how many fucking martial arts Batman knows.


A rail gun makes a loud noise and a flash before it fires, anyone with two pairs of eyes that is even in relatively decent shape can dodge that, the only superhuman he fought hand to hand was Gray Fox and that was because Fox held back on him

Snake is going to get beaten into a coma in this fight


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

UltraDoots said:


> Snake dodged a rail gun bullet and held his own in CQC against superhumans.
> 
> I don't care how many fucking martial arts Batman knows.





Madara42 said:


> Snake also roflstomped several armed guards with CQC alone, despite them surrounding him.


Yes, a bunch of canon fodder soldiers that even a girl like Meryl can take out, even Johnny was mowing down Liquid's elite FROGS left and right while making wedding plans, some elite soldiers 



UltraDoots said:


> Snake dodged a rail gun bullet and held his own in CQC against superhumans.
> 
> I don't care how many fucking martial arts Batman knows.





Madara42 said:


> Snake also roflstomped several armed guards with CQC alone, despite them surrounding him.





paulatreides0 said:


> Why the fuck would you necro a two year old thread?
> 
> Also, Old Snake has hypersonic reflexes. Snake Prime should shit on Old Snake in pretty much every category. Furthermore, Snake has been shown to be very good at CQC and has not only kept up with but actually defeated superhumans such as Vamp and Cyborg Ninja (Frank) in H2H combat.


No he does not, Snake has never had any impressive reflexes, and Snake in his prime was KO'd by a genome soldier [the same ones that Meryl was killing] and failed to break a pair of hand cuffs without getting damaged first.

He never beat Vamp, he jabbed a syringe into his neck and that was it, and Gray Fox wasn't fighting at his fullest either, not to mention neither of them are anywhere near as skilled as Bats is


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## Genyosai (Sep 7, 2010)

> Snake is going to get beaten into a coma in this fight



And then Batman presses his comatose body to 500 reps.

(Seriously though, I have no idea who wins)


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

Genyosai said:


> And *then Batman presses his comatose body to 500 reps.*
> 
> (Seriously though, I have no idea who wins)


 Excuse me?


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## Genyosai (Sep 7, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> Excuse me?



batman is strrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooongggggggggggggg.


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

Genyosai said:


> batman is strrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooongggggggggggggg.


Oh ok, I didn't understand your post earlier

Yes, while Snake takes a few minutes to break a pair of hand cuffs which were already damaged, Batman can casually snap a pair with two thumbs


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## Proxy (Sep 7, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> Oh ok, I didn't understand your post earlier
> 
> Yes, while Snake takes a few minutes to break a pair of hand cuffs which were already damaged, Batman can casually snap a pair with two thumbs



Wait, you're joking, right?

Batman being stronger than Snake?


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

Proxy said:


> Wait, you're joking, right?
> 
> Batman being stronger than Snake?


Let me know when Snake can break a pair of hand cuffs


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## Tenacious Lee (Sep 7, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> A rail gun makes a loud noise and a flash before it fires, anyone with two pairs of eyes that is even in relatively decent shape can dodge that, the only superhuman he fought hand to hand was Gray Fox and that was because Fox held back on him



Snake didn't move until after the railgun had been fired


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

Tenacious Lee said:


> Snake didn't move until after the railgun had been fired


 No, but he knew someone was out there, and the rail gun makes a big flash and noise in the distance.  Anyone with their head on their shoulders could do that, hell anyone could do the majority of Snakes feats


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## paulatreides0 (Sep 7, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> Yes, a bunch of canon fodder soldiers that even a girl like Meryl can take out, even Johnny was mowing down Liquid's elite FROGS left and right while making wedding plans, some elite soldiers



Let's completely ignore that Meryl and her team were essentially supposed to be a US special ops group that were bonded together by SOP (except for Akiba) which essentially gave them a pseudo-hive mentality when it came to incoming and outgoing battlefield information. So no, it's not exactly that hard to believe, especially since Akiba actually straightened up and had more or less grown a pair by the end of MGS4.

The FROGs were elites. Extremely agile elites with high quality weapons and armor. Oh, and they also had SOP.



Batosaims said:


> No he does not, Snake has never had any impressive reflexes,



Because dodging a hypersonic shell is definitely not impressive.



Batosaims said:


> and Snake in his prime was KO'd by a genome soldier [the same ones that Meryl was killing] and failed to break a pair of hand cuffs without getting damaged first.



The same genome soldiers who had been enhanced with the Big Boss' Soldier Genes? The same superhuman Big Boss who Snake, Liquid, and Solidus were cloned from and could wipe the floor with them?

The genome soldiers were the designed as the next generation super soldiers and save for the Big Boss clones, there were few (if any) better soldiers at the time).



Batosaims said:


> He never beat Vamp, he jabbed a syringe into his neck and that was it,



Which would require Snake being able to keep up with Vamp, catch him, put him in a strangle hold without being countered or stabbed, and inject the syringe into him. Do you see the flaw in your argument now?



Batosaims said:


> A rail gun makes a loud noise



Except that railguns fire _hypersonic slugs._ Do you know what that means? That means that it is much, _much_ faster than sound. By about 5 Mach Levels.

The bullet would already have long passed Snake by the time he'd heard the sound, meaning that if he had reacted only to the sound, he'd be dead.



Batosaims said:


> and a flash before it fires, anyone with two pairs of eyes that is even in relatively decent shape can dodge that,



Except:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8QKMdJn854[/YOUTUBE]

Crying Wolf had trouble seeing Snake, through the blizzard, hence Crying Wolf needed to switch to IR vision to spot Snake. Even in game seeing more than a few meters through the blizzard you had to use IR vision. And Crying Wolf was looking through a _high power magnification scope_ as well, so there is no way that Snake had the same vision capabilities she did. So no, Snake did not see or hear it.

Also:

~1:24~1:25 (exactly in between them)= Crying Wolf Fires Railgun
~1:25~1:26=It zooms at Snake
~1:26= Snake jumps, dodging out of the path of the bullet



Batosaims said:


> the only superhuman he fought hand to hand was Gray Fox and that was because Fox held back on him



And he didn't fight Vamp hand to hand??


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## Batosaims (Sep 7, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Let's completely ignore that Meryl and her team were essentially supposed to be a US special ops group that were bonded together by SOP (except for Akiba) which essentially gave them a pseudo-hive mentality when it came to incoming and outgoing battlefield information. So no, it's not exactly that hard to believe, especially since Akiba actually straightened up and had more or less grown a pair by the end of MGS4.
> 
> The FROGs were elites. Extremely agile elites with high quality weapons and armor. Oh, and they also had SOP.
> 
> ...



1. No, because Meryl and two members of her Rat Patrol were using nano machines that allowed them to see and feel what the other members were seeing and feeling which is why they worked so well as a team, not only that, she only got the job of monitoring the PMC's because her Uncle hooked her up with it.  In her entire existence Meryl has never shown any skill or ability that was above average, Johnny growing a pair at the end doesn't change the fact that he and Meryl were effortlessly mowing down FROGS left and right, two normal humans with basic military training, one being a complete joke for the majority of the series, were killing Liquids Elite Soldiers while talking about their wedding plans.

2. Nothing hypersonic about a rail gun shot, and I already explained this, that Snake already knew someone was out there, he may have dodged it after it was fired but he was still ready for the shot.  

3.Yeah enhanced Genome soldiers that were getting mowed down by Meryl 

who was rookie in MGS1, they blindly charged into the room where Snake and Meryl was and she killed several of them in a panic.  Despite what was stated about them, they were average and incredibly incompetent soldiers.

4. Not entirely, Vamp was always incredibly cocky and Snake managed to get him after pumping him with lead several times, not to mention Vamp had shown little skill outside of fighting with bladed weapons.  

5. Except again, that their is nothing hypersonic about her shots, they weren't even as fast as regular bullets.  I checked the manual, checked the codec conversations, and nothing about her shots being hypersonic or even faster then Glock bullets.  And the fact that Snake already knew someone was out makes this even less impressive.  

Look at your video at 1:15, Snake knows that someone is out there waiting for him.  

Also if you remember from MGS1 when you talk to Master Miller on the Codec he tells you to use a supressor because sound travels further in cold weather.  So hearing her shot is a very viable explanation

6. No, because catching a cocky bastard with no hand to hand fighting ability after pumping him full of led then simply stabbing him with a syrgine isn't hand to hand combat.  In MGS2 when Snake was actually in his prime, he unloaded an assault rifle on Vamp in their first encounter, Vamp slashed his arm then pinned him up against the wall and could of killed him if he wanted to but Fortune called him off


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## paulatreides0 (Sep 8, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> 1. No, because Meryl and two members of her Rat Patrol were using nano machines that allowed them to see and feel what the other members were seeing and feeling which is why they worked so well as a team,



Did you completely and utterly ignore the part where I said they had SOP and that it essentially gave them instant communication so far as battlefield information, orders, and tactics were concerned?



Batosaims said:


> she only got the job of monitoring the PMC's because her Uncle hooked her up with it.



Your point? She was still the leader of a SpecOps team. Your every day, average soldier/mook doesn't do that.



Batosaims said:


> Johnny growing a pair at the end doesn't change the fact that he and Meryl were effortlessly mowing down FROGS left and right,



In MGS4, Johnny's only actual appearances in action (as far as I can remember) before Outer Haven was in the Middle East. Where he was suffering from something like dyssentry that actually would wreck your fighting ability. So you didn't really have a very good measure of his fighting ability before that. My comment about him growing a pair wasn't meant to be taken seriously, I was talking about this.

Also, Johnny lacked SOP.



Batosaims said:


> two normal humans with basic military training, one being a complete joke for the majority of the series,



Because Special Ops teams are definitely standard soldiers straight out of basic, right?



Batosaims said:


> were killing Liquids Elite Soldiers while talking about their wedding plans.



Talking is a free action. And not to mention that fiction is prevalent in fiction. Hell, there are one-on-one fights were villain and hero have high caliber fights while speaking about their own ideologies (Amuro vs. Char in CCA).



Batosaims said:


> 2. Nothing hypersonic about a rail gun shot, and I already explained this,



Railguns shoot hypersonic slugs, that's what makes them so deadly and gives them so much penetrative power... It's extreme muzzle velocity.

In fact, this is the whole point behind a railgun: to accelerate projectiles to speeds (i.e. muzzle velocities) normally implausible or even outright impossible by conventional bullets.



Batosaims said:


> that Snake already knew someone was out there, he may have dodged it after it was fired but he was still ready for the shot.



Except he didn't, or else he would have shot at her. Snake thought that there was somebody there. Completely different from knowing she was there, he couldn't even see her or hear her.



Batosaims said:


> 3.Yeah enhanced Genome soldiers that were getting mowed down by Meryl who was rookie in MGS1, they blindly charged into the room where Snake and Meryl was and she killed several of them in a panic.







Batosaims said:


> 4. Not entirely, Vamp was always incredibly cocky and Snake managed to get him after pumping him with lead several times,



Explained later on.



Batosaims said:


> not to mention Vamp had shown little skill outside of fighting with bladed weapons.



And Vamp was also shown to be able to fight pretty evenly with Raiden. A confirmed bullet timer. So bullets are usually not a problem for Vamp especially given his regen ability.



Batosaims said:


> 5. Except again, that their is nothing hypersonic about her shots, *they weren't even as fast as regular bullets.*



Prove the bolded.

Also, while you're at it, explain how the railgun had more destructive power and penetrative ability than the AT Rifle despite a slower muzzle velocity.



Batosaims said:


> I checked the manual, checked the codec conversations, and nothing about her shots being hypersonic or *even faster then Glock bullets*.



Is the bolded a joke??



Batosaims said:


> And the fact that Snake already knew someone was out makes this even less impressive.



Except he didn't. He had a feeling. Intuition. If he'd known she was there he would've opened fire. Furthermore, he did not know what kind of enemy, where it was, or what it was armed with (sniper or not). So



Batosaims said:


> Also if you remember from MGS1 when you talk to Master Miller on the Codec he tells you to use a supressor because sound travels further in cold weather.  So hearing her shot is a very viable explanation



It travels _further_, *not faster*. This is because the sound waves do not disperse as much in cold air and as such have longer ranges than normal as the molecules in the air are packed much tighter resulting in more energy transfer (which is really what results in sound) when compared to warmer air that is more spread out.



Batosaims said:


> 6. No, because catching a cocky bastard with *no hand to hand fighting ability*



Are you saying that Vamp is not good at melee? Because he was fighting pretty damn evenly with Raiden. Cyborg Raiden.



Batosaims said:


> after pumping him full of led then simply stabbing him with a syrgine isn't hand to hand combat.



Except that Snake had his pistol (both at the beginning and ending scenes of the fight). Meaning that at most Snake had used his pistol as his weapon. His pistol is a semi-auto. Meaning that he couldn't just spray the bullets.

So, worst case scenario for me: Snake had to shoot and hit a confirmed bullet timer.



Batosaims said:


> In MGS2 when Snake was actually in his prime, he unloaded an assault rifle on Vamp in their first encounter, Vamp slashed his arm then pinned him up against the wall and could of killed him if he wanted to but Fortune called him off



You mean during their first encounter??


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## The Saltiest Pizza (Sep 8, 2010)

Batosaims said:


> 1. No, because Meryl and two members of her Rat Patrol were using nano machines that allowed them to see and feel what the other members were seeing and feeling which is why they worked so well as a team, not only that, she only got the job of monitoring the PMC's because her Uncle hooked her up with it.  In her entire existence Meryl has never shown any skill or ability that was above average, Johnny growing a pair at the end doesn't change the fact that he and Meryl were effortlessly mowing down FROGS left and right, two normal humans with basic military training, one being a complete joke for the majority of the series, were killing Liquids Elite Soldiers while talking about their wedding plans.
> 
> *That's basically what he said, with SOP.
> 
> ...



Replies in bold.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Sep 8, 2010)

Snake can keep up with Sonic and send samus flying with mere kicks 
batman is out of his leauge


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## paulatreides0 (Sep 8, 2010)

Also, to add on to the comment about Meryl and Akiba's final fight against the Outer Haven Troopers:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QofhJhJGBjw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

(Interesting Note: Meryl also seems to be able to handle the recoil of her Desert Eagles one handed, with relative ease which is not easy to do even with two hands. Rather casually too. And while moving.)

Meryl was in an area with easily accessible cover (a thick metal wall that bullets easily ricochet off of), fighting FROGs who had to come to her to fight here (giving Meryl the defensive which made her job easier). Akiba comes in and saves her at the last minute by surprising the FROGs and killing them before they even know he's there.

They then proceed to fight together, from behind relatively well defended areas. The FROGs would have to come and get within Meryl and Akiba's line of sight to harm them. Making their jobs much, much easier as they would be harder to hit and the FROGs would have to maneuver within the enemy's LoF to be able to get their own shots off.

Furthermore, most of the cover the FROGs could use that was close to the two of them (Meryl and Akiba) was on lower ground which not only made it harder for them to aim their own guns, it also made them easier targets for Akiba and Meryl. Once they finally came out of cover they were able to hold their own for a while covering each other's back. It took a rush of several FROGs (about a half dozen or so) to just wound them because they couldn't down them all in time.

A rather large portion of this was done with pistols. Semi-automatic pistols. Against enemies with fully automatic weapons (as well as being damn accurate, the P90, I mean).


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## Batosaims (Sep 8, 2010)

@paulatreides0

1. No, but that pretty much proves my point that her group was only a viable threat because of their nano machines and not because of their skill and efficiency as a group

2. Because Campbell arranged for her to go to the middle east to monitor the PMC's.  Meryl never got anywhere on her own skill and merit. 

3. Johnny appeared in MGS1 where he got beaten up by Meryl and got his clothes stolen, then Johnny was guarding Snake's cell and ended up getting out smarted again and tricked into releasing Snake.
He did lack the SOP which is my entire point that a joke character with no indication of any skill mowed down Liquids elite FROGS left and right.

4. Again, because of their nano machines and because Cambell arranged everything. 

5. Except in one on one fights you can focus on your enemy, Meryl and Johnny were focused on each other talking about their wedding barely paying attention to the FROGS that constantly kept rushing in and getting shot.

6. You're comparing a fictional miniture rail gun to larger RL rail guns, if you google schematics for real life rail guns, the larger one's can shoot at hypersonic speed, so unless Wolf's rail gun was packing the same power that theory is false and since it barely knocked down a tree when she shot at Snake chances are that the shots weren't very fast. 

7. Except he did hence why he was readying himself.

8. I know what PIS is thank you, except that this wasn't PIS, except for Naomi's statements of the Genomes, they never showed any skill or ability that would put them above average soldiers.  Meryl mowing them down is perfectly viable and consistent with their showings.

9. Again, was fighting Raiden with *BLADED WEAPONS* ei knives swords, also just because you are a bullet timer doesn't mean you can't be shot.  Raiden beat Vamp 3 times in MGS2 before becoming a cyborg ninja, when he was fighting Fortune, the actual boss fight and third when he was holding Emma hostage. 

10. How about proving that her rail gun was firing at hypersonic speed? Other then trying to compare her portable rail gun to larger real life rail guns.
Also what destructive power? The only thing her rail gun destroyed were a few flipping trees.

11. Not at all, you are speculating so I can do the same. 

12. It does travel further, that is exactly what I said, I never said it traveled faster, my point is that Snake could of easily heard the rail gun charging prior to the shot, it's loud and it was cold so the sound could of traveled further before the shot was fired.

I'm not saying it isn't impressive but it isn't anything outside of standard human capabilities and it certainly isn't on par with dodging point blank gun fire.

13. He was fighting evenly with Raiden with weapons

14. So because he was using a pistol in the starting and ending scenes that means he only used a pistol? Or maybe those are what he started and ended with, in 90% of the game he used only a pistol in the cut scenes, does that mean he only used a pistol 90% of the time? No.  My point is that he didn't beat him in H2H, also Raiden pwned Vamp 3 times in MGS2 and IMO Vamp was a lot more impressive then he was in MGS4.

14. Yes


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## Batosaims (Sep 8, 2010)

Madara42 said:


> Replies in bold.



1. Then that proves my point, that Meryl did nothing based off her own skill and merit

Yes I do mean Roy and yes he was the one who arranged for her to go to the middle east, this was stated when Snake met the Rat Patrol for the first time in Act 1 and Meryl got pissed off for mentioning her uncle.

No it does not, you're suggesting that Johnny gaining a bit of competence boost him from being a joke to mowing down Liquids Elite soldiers without even trying?  Not at all, they mowed them down because FROGS were never impressive in the first place, outside of being able to jump around and stick to walls due to tech.  

Not exactly, for one most of the fight between the Missouri and Outer Haven were off panel. You only see parts of it when you go through the Microwave oven toward the end.

2. Except that larger RL rail guns may reach hypersonic speeds, a miniture portable version would not. You're just speculating

3. I'm not ignoring anything, Snake killing them has nothing to do with my point. The enhanced Genomes were being slaughtered by an incompetant rookie, doesn't matter if Snake was killing them with her, the fact that they blindly rushed in further proves my point.

4.  You're acting like Snake simply ran up to him and jabbed it in him, he wore him down then got him in a position where he could stick the syringe in him. Had nothing to do with Snake's speed and reflexes.

5. No, it's just within human capability. 

6. See 4, and you can Youtube it, its early in Raidens part of the game when he gets to the Big Shell


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## Batosaims (Sep 8, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> Also, to add on to the comment about Meryl and Akiba's final fight against the Outer Haven Troopers:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QofhJhJGBjw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



Two things

1. Meryl and Johnny didn't stay in that position for long, it was only a matter of time before they were in the open and eventually rolling on the ground on top of each other.

2. FROGS were barely shooting at them, they constantly kept rushing trying to overwhelm oblivious to the fact that their comrades were smoked by her several seconds earlier, outside of the tech that gives them agility and wall crawling, FROGS much like Genome lack skill and are incompetent

Bats wins due to Snake being outclassed in every aspect


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## Kurou (Sep 8, 2010)

Stop double and triple posting.


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## Abigail (Sep 8, 2010)

Don't blaspheme giogio by using it, hadomaru.


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