# Law vs. Zoro



## trance (Nov 5, 2013)

Location: SA

Intel: Full

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Distance: 30m

How does this go?

Reactions: Like 1


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## mr sean66 (Nov 5, 2013)

This has been done many times before..... Though zoro could give law one hell of a fight with knowledge laws abilities are way to haxed he's on par with luffy who he could beat with mid diff if he was bloodlusted and luffy was ic with no knowledge.
I think law wins high diff


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## November (Nov 5, 2013)

inb4zorofangirl


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 5, 2013)

Law. Mountain Cutter. End.
/thread.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Unclear Justice (Nov 5, 2013)

If Zoro can?t blitz and one-shot Law at the start of the fight, he looses.


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## Urouge (Nov 5, 2013)

^ so he basically loses  because he will never be able to blitz law.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Ajin (Nov 5, 2013)

Law have far better feats and hype, only fanboys will vote for Zoro.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Extravlad (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoro low difficulty because Law can't slash or cut him.

Zoro's slash are strongers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shinthia (Nov 5, 2013)

Trafalgar Law


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## Canute87 (Nov 5, 2013)

Law slices through zoro's swords.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Soca (Nov 5, 2013)

Law can take it with high difficulty



Unclear Justice said:


> If Zoro can?t blitz and one-shot Law at the start of the fight, he looses.





Urouge said:


> ^ so he basically loses  because he will never be able to blitz law.



basically


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## Halcyon (Nov 5, 2013)

Law high diff


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## Dellinger (Nov 5, 2013)

Law extreme difficulty.

No one from the supernovas can beat Zoro high difficulty.Heck,he most probably is stronger than most of them.


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## Katou (Nov 5, 2013)

Law . . Mid Difficulty. .

Reactions: Like 1


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## November (Nov 5, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Law extreme difficulty.
> 
> No one from the supernovas can beat Zoro high difficulty.Heck,he most probably is stronger than most of them.



This.
Law is not mid-diffing zolo

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 5, 2013)

Everyone except Eustass Kidd.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Coruscation (Nov 5, 2013)

Law is someone who is unlikely to have an extreme difficulty fight. His fighting style doesn't lend itself well to it. He either loses or wins high difficulty against most people capable of actually resisting him well enough to put up a fight while anyone who fails to cross the threshold simply gets beaten with relative ease. There may be some rare exceptions but I don't think Zoro with his incredibly lethal style is one. At this point Law would probably beat Zoro more often than not. Zoro as far as we can speculate right now isn't as well suited as Luffy, with his extreme speed and mobility, to fighting Law. He does specialize in COA so there's a chance he could resist his power quite well but there's almost no way he's better than Vergo, so in a final head-on clash Law would still win.

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## Katou (Nov 5, 2013)

Bepo solos

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## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoro medium difficulty. Law's high end moves such as his mountain buster will be effortlessly dispersed by Asura. Zoro's swordplay is much better and Law has no good advantage here. There's nothing Law can do but hope for a MES, except Zoro's reaction time is way too fast and Law will be decapitated it he tries shit like that.
Zoro is Law's worst nightmare. Horrible match up.


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## Katou (Nov 5, 2013)




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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 5, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Zoro medium difficulty. Law's high end moves such as his mountain buster will be effortlessly dispersed by Asura. Zoro's swordplay is much better and Law has no good advantage here. There's nothing Law can do but hope for a MES, except Zoro's reaction time is way too fast and Law will be decapitated it he tries shit like that.
> Zoro is Law's worst nightmare. Horrible match up.


Law > Yeti Cool Brothers > Zoro. Canon info. 


Urouge said:


> ^ so he basically loses  because he will never be able to blitz law.


Thanks to his Room, Law will leave Zoro in Shambles.


Mesopotani said:


> Bepo solos


I'd like to see that matchup happen.


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## Dunno (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoro high diff. He hasn't shown anything yet, while Law has shown his whole arsenal. Law's positive feats might be more impressive (Cutting the mountain, etc.), but you can't disregard his negative feats (getting pushed to his limits numerous times).

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## Furinji Saiga (Nov 5, 2013)

So far based it feats, its hard to give Zoro the win, considering his limited feats and the fact he has not faced any higher level opponent. I would give it to Law extreme difficulty, for now.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Halcyon (Nov 5, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Law extreme difficulty.
> 
> No one from the supernovas can beat Zoro high difficulty.Heck,he most probably is stronger than most of them.



It's not really about overall strength, because Zoro is definitely physically superior.

The match up just isn't very good. I agree that he's stronger than the majority of the SNs, but Law's fruit is too hax. He either wins with difficulty or loses with it. He doesn't seem to be able to have a prolonged battle which extreme diff entails.

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## trance (Nov 5, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Zoro high diff. He hasn't shown anything yet, while Law has shown his whole arsenal. Law's positive feats might be more impressive (Cutting the mountain, etc.), *but you can't disregard his negative feats (getting pushed to his limits numerous times).*





The only time he was pushed to his limit was against Fujitora and DD and even then, he was still able to stall for an extended period of time. 

Seriously, stop your downplaying.


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## Freechoice (Nov 5, 2013)

Zoro ain't beating Law

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 6, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Zoro high diff. He hasn't shown anything yet, while Law has shown his whole arsenal.


So with what's been shown, how does Zoro deal with Law's Room? 


Dunno said:


> Law's positive feats might be more impressive (Cutting the mountain, etc.), but you can't disregard his negative feats (*getting pushed to his limits numerous times*).


You're right, I think Zoro would have put up a better fight against Doflamingo (a Warlord) and Fujitora (a freaking Admiral) than Law did, no doubt about it.


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## November (Nov 6, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Zoro medium difficulty. Law's high end moves such as his mountain buster will be effortlessly dispersed by Asura. Zoro's swordplay is much better and Law has no good advantage here. There's nothing Law can do but hope for a MES, except Zoro's reaction time is way too fast and Law will be decapitated it he tries shit like that.
> Zoro is Law's worst nightmare. Horrible match up.




Never disappoint me


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## RF (Nov 6, 2013)

Zoro would flay Doflamingo with Asura and then give Fujitora extreme difficulty before either losing or winning.


It's clear who the stronger one is.

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## Halcyon (Nov 6, 2013)

Until Zoro shows his true prime GDR strength, which we all can infer he has now, I'm still giving it to Law.


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## Enel (Nov 6, 2013)

I'd say Law is pretty much equal to Luffy, so Law extreme-diff.


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## God Movement (Nov 6, 2013)

Zoro doesn't stand a chance.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Rob (Nov 6, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Zoro would flay Doflamingo with Asura and then give Fujitora extreme difficulty before either losing or winning.
> 
> 
> It's clear who the stronger one is.



This. This. This. 

Stomp Thread is Stomp Thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sayonara (Nov 6, 2013)

Laws has some of the best feats post skip , if you don't have logia like  advantages you're already on your back foot. The key downfall to Law probably lies in his stamina, we know he cant recklessly spam big attacks but it wont matter if Zoro cant defend, speed should work well but its not something Zoro accels at. 

He beat Vergo with relative ease, went up against Fuji and Dofla and beaten or not came out in a rather positive portrayal.  Law takes this for now , even though Zoro yet reveal what hes capable of  , it will have to be something big for me to reconsider.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 6, 2013)

Inb4 Zorofangirl ... Wait ... Not . Zoro Low diff of course, Law's slashes can't even pass Zoro's fandom, let alone his greatest warrior: Zorofangirl24 . Law is dead meat .


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## Dunno (Nov 6, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> So with what's been shown, how does Zoro deal with Law's Room?
> 
> You're right, I think Zoro would have put up a better fight against Doflamingo (a Warlord) and Fujitora (a freaking Admiral) than Law did, no doubt about it.



It's not about what Zoro has shown, but about what he hasn't. He hasn't had any trouble at all dealing with his enemies post-TS, even when going up against enemies that Luffy had some trouble with. He's just been cruising through the new world. Law has had trouble dealing with Smoker and Vergo too. What I'm saying is that we've seen Law's upper limit, but we haven't seen Zoro's, and when we do, I think it going to be quite impressive.

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## trance (Nov 6, 2013)

Dunno said:


> It's not about what Zoro has shown, but about what he hasn't. He hasn't had any trouble at all dealing with his enemies post-TS, even when going up against enemies that Luffy had some trouble with. He's just been cruising through the new world. Law has had trouble dealing with Smoker and Vergo too. What I'm saying is that we've seen Law's upper limit, but we haven't seen Zoro's, and when we do, I think it going to be quite impressive.



So, just because you _think_ his upper limit will be quite impressive that he can beat Law with high difficulty?


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## Halcyon (Nov 6, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> So, just because you _think_ his upper limit will be quite impressive that he can beat Law with high difficulty?



Just let it happen...


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## Slenderman (Nov 6, 2013)

Mesopotani said:


> Law . . Mid Difficulty. .



If that's the case then Law beats Luffy mid difficulty.  Zoro wpuld give Luffy a Lucci esque fight which some of you conveniently forget. Law will be pushed to extreme diff. Zoro's a better only swordsman but Law has haxx. Zoro could block i'm assuming most of Law's slashes but eventually a mountain buster will come.


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## Sayonara (Nov 6, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> If that's the case then Law beats Luffy mid difficulty.  Zoro wpuld give Luffy a Lucci esque fight which some of you conveniently forget. Law will be pushed to extreme diff. Zoro's a better only swordsman but Law has haxx. Zoro could block i'm assuming most of Law's slashes but eventually a mountain buster will come.



One piece fights arent so one dimensional, match ups count. 

Zoro could give Luffy a hell of a fight, but against Law; speed and maneuverability are  more useful assets to have, unless you can have that much confidence in your CoA. Even Smoker with knowledge of Laws Mes attack could likely give Law a harder time than Zoro and possibly Luffy even though hes arguably below both.


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## trance (Nov 6, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> If that's the case then Law beats Luffy mid difficulty.  *Zoro would give Luffy a Lucci esque fight which some of you conveniently forget*.



That would imply near equality which Luffy and Zoro are not.



Slenderman said:


> Law will be pushed to extreme diff. Zoro's a better only swordsman but Law has haxx. *Zoro could block i'm assuming most of Law's slashes *but eventually a mountain buster will come.





Unless Zoro has better CoA than Vergo, he gets bisected.


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## Slenderman (Nov 6, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> One piece fights arent so one dimensional, match ups count.
> 
> Zoro could give Luffy a hell of a fight, but against Law; speed and maneuverability are  more useful assets to have, unless you can have that much confidence in your CoA. Even Smoker with knowledge of Laws Mes attack could likely give Law a harder time than Zoro and possibly Luffy even though hes arguably below both.



True but Luffy can run around Law as much as he wants but by his logic he gets mid diffed to. They're both brawlers. Smoker is different because he's a logia. I don't see Zoro's problem with speed since he blitzed a fishman underwater. I get where you're coming from but Mesopanti elaborating makes this much more easier. In speed Luffy's faster true but in COA imo they should be quite equal. I'm not saying Zoro's better but he specializes in it. As it's his forte. A fight with Luffy and Law is hard because if Law starts bloodlusted I doubt Luffy's COA is stronger then Vergo's. Match ups do count but it's easier and simpler with brawlers.


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## Dunno (Nov 6, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> So, just because you _think_ his upper limit will be quite impressive that he can beat Law with high difficulty?



Yes, I _think_ that he'll be quite impressive when he goes all out, and therefore I _think_ that he'll be able to beat Law with high difficulty. Just like you _think_ that he won't be that impressive and therefore you _think_ that Law will beat Zoro. It's quite obvious, what is it you don't understand?

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## Slenderman (Nov 6, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> That would imply near equality which Luffy and Zoro are not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm assuming that you forgot the esque part? Zoro would push Luffy to high-extreme. I didn't say equal so don't jump the gun without even knowing what you're doing. Pre timekip Oda told us they're equal with Luffy being stronger. I was talking about lower end COA attacks. I never said anything about mountain busters. Don't pull out eloquent disdain when I never  said things and you're just guessing. Ask some of the oldest and best posters and they'd say Zoro pushes Luffy to extreme. If you don't believe go make a thread and see what the OL will tell you.


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## trance (Nov 6, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Yes, I _think_ that he'll be quite impressive when he goes all out, and therefore I _think_ that he'll be able to beat Law with high difficulty. Just like you _think_ that he won't be that impressive and therefore you _think_ that Law will beat Zoro. It's quite obvious, what is it you don't understand?



Did I say that I won't think Zoro will be impressive when he goes all out? 

However, to say that his upper limit will surpass Law's is the part I have trouble believing.


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## Halcyon (Nov 6, 2013)

Sure, Vergo's CoA is probably better than Zoro's.

At the same time, though, Zoro wouldn't be arrogant enough to just try and tank the slash like Vergo did.

This isn't going to end up lower than high diff, if you ask me.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 6, 2013)

Dunno said:


> It's not about what Zoro has shown, *but about what he hasn't*.


And what do you think he has up his sleeve? A Quake Quake SMILE?


Dunno said:


> *He hasn't had any trouble at all dealing with his enemies post-TS, even when going up against enemies that Luffy had some trouble with. He's just been cruising through the new world*.


Ok, so Hyozu is a top tier because he blocked Luffy's punch (when Luffy wasn't going full out and was attacking multiple opponents), and the Yeti Cool Brothers are god tier for beating Zoro?


Dunno said:


> Law has had trouble dealing with Smoker and Vergo too. What I'm saying is that *we've seen Law's upper limit*


Even after DD and Fujitora overpowered him (when he was trying to keep CC's heart away and stalling for Nami to show up), Law played them for suckers, and was STILL able to use his Room to mess around with DD and Fujitora's meteors. Fujitora would have OHKOed Zoro without even needing to use his DF.


Dunno said:


> but we haven't seen Zoro's, and when we do, I think it going to be quite impressive.


So unless Zoro's been hiding the fact that he was stronger than Luffy all along, a Quake Quake SMILE, or a Mountain Cutter, you're full of shit.


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## Slenderman (Nov 6, 2013)

^ Nice one +reps. Dunno he hasn't had any trouble because he's been fighting fodders who are nothing compared to the guys Luffy's been flooring.


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## Halcyon (Nov 6, 2013)

Luffy hasn't really floored anyone of importance either, for that matter.

Which speaks volumes of the people Zoro has faced.

It aggravates me.


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## Slenderman (Nov 6, 2013)

^ True but those people were better then their not so great subordinates. Yeah Zoro's facing fodders. Overall though. Sanji fights the strongest in the arc twice now.


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## trance (Nov 6, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> *Luffy hasn't really floored anyone of importance either, for that matter.*
> 
> Which speaks volumes of the people Zoro has faced.
> 
> It aggravates me.



Importance, huh? 

Idk, Caesar seems pretty important to me. I mean, Joker went to such great lengths to get him back and without him, Kaido wouldn't have an army.


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## Halcyon (Nov 6, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> Importance, huh?
> 
> Idk, Caesar seems pretty important to me. I mean, Joker went to such great lengths to get him back and without him, Kaido wouldn't have an army.


I just meant no one that can really compare to his strength...

You knew what I meant 

btw, I'm done with that set, finished it like a week ago but PB was being bitchy. I'll PM it to you soon


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## TrainerRed (Nov 6, 2013)

Law High Difficulty, without his fruit I give it to Zoro High-Extreme diff due mostly to his insane physical strength which is undoubtably superior to Laws.


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## Tiger (Nov 6, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> Law High Difficulty, without his fruit I give it to Zoro High-Extreme diff due mostly to his insane physical strength which is undoubtably superior to Laws.



Without his DF, what has Law shown you that would cause you to believe he could give Zoro an extremely difficult fight?

It's not a sign of weakness when someone is so strong because of their DF. It's a type of ability, and one Law has clearly focused just about all his time and energy into to master. Take it away, and you may as well take Zoro's swords away and make them have a fist fight. Which Zoro would win handily, because he _lifts buildings_.

DF intact, Law should win high-difficulty.

That said, I also think he'd currently defeat Luffy, so take from that what you will.

My namesake is not what you'd call a "well-rounded fighter".

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## tanman (Nov 6, 2013)

Law high difficulty, but it will probably look like less than high difficulty depending on seriousness due to the nature of Law's DF.

My current theory on Law's ability is that the fight is basically decided on whether or not Law is (a) smarter than you or (b) has better Haki than you. In Zoro's case, Law wins on both counts.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Dunno (Nov 6, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> And what do you think he has up his sleeve? A Quake Quake SMILE?
> 
> Ok, so Hyozu is a top tier because he blocked Luffy's punch (when Luffy wasn't going full out and was attacking multiple opponents), and the Yeti Cool Brothers are god tier for beating Zoro?
> 
> ...



I don't know what to say about this post... Most of it is wrong and you're putting a lot of words in my mouth. Let me put it this way: Do you think that Zoro has shown everything he can do? Do you think we've seen him go all out post-TS? If you do, then we have nothing to discuss. If you, like me, think that he has shown basically nothing, since he hasn't been pushed even close to his limits, then you'll have to agree that he has more to show than what we've seen yet. 

Why would anyone think that Hyouzou is a top tier? That's obviously not the case. He blocked a hit from Luffy, and Luffy remarked on his strength. Zoro later beat him in his drugged state with zero difficulty, it's more about portrayal than anything else. Zoro never fought the Yeti cool brothers, the same way Sanji never fought the random goons who pumped sleeping gas onto the Thousand Sunny. Luffy had minor trouble with Monet and Zoro one-shot her too. One of the reasons Zoro's opponents have looked so weak is because they've been one-shot, which is actually quite funny. In the OL, characters look weaker if they one-shot their opponents than if they struggle with them. 

I agree that Law was quite impressive interacting with Doflamingo and Fujitora, but there's nothing that says that Zoro couldn't have done better. The logic that you're using to justify your standpoint is a circular one: Zoro is weaker than Law, so he couldn't have done as well against DD/Fuji. And since Zoro wouldn't have been able to do as well as Law, he's weaker. 

Why would Zoro need to be stronger than Luffy to be stronger than Law? Do you think Law is stronger than Luffy, even though (following the usual formula) Luffy will beat DD this arc? It is possible, but I don't think so. That last remark was also really unnecessary. I prefer debating to throwing insults at each other. If I hurt you by voicing my opinions, it wasn't intentional at all, and I apologize for not formulating them better.

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## Freechoice (Nov 6, 2013)

RedDogAkainu said:


> Law High Difficulty, without his fruit I give it to Zoro High-Extreme diff due mostly to his *insane physical strength which is undoubtably superior to Laws.*



Law stopped Doflamingo's Overheat with his "physical strength"



I don't see Zoro doing that.

Doflamingo would beat Zoro almost as easily as he bested Sanji.

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## trance (Nov 6, 2013)

What said:


> Law stopped Doflamingo's Overheat with his "physical strength"



Bro, c'mon...you know that's only because Law's got a cursed sword. 

Without it, he would've been cleaved in two.


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## Firo (Nov 6, 2013)

Until shown otherwise, Law wins.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 6, 2013)

Dunno said:


> I don't know what to say about this post... Most of it is wrong and you're putting a lot of words in my mouth.


Let me see...what were you saying, oh yeah, right here:


Dunno said:


> He hasn't had any trouble at all dealing with his enemies post-TS, even when going up against enemies that Luffy had some trouble with.


So according to you, Zoro was able to handle opponents that "supposedly" were giving Luffy trouble. No way Luffy could have beaten them if Luffy were out for blood.


Dunno said:


> Let me put it this way: Do you think that Zoro has shown everything he can do? Do you think we've seen him go all out post-TS? If you do, then we have nothing to discuss. If you, like me, think that he has shown basically nothing, since he hasn't been pushed even close to his limits, then you'll have to agree that he has more to show than what we've seen yet.


And, you think Zoro can handle Law's Room, how, exactly?


Dunno said:


> Why would anyone think that Hyouzou is a top tier? That's obviously not the case. *He blocked a hit from Luffy, and Luffy remarked on his strength. Zoro later beat him in his drugged state with zero difficulty, it's more about portrayal than anything else.*



As you can see, Luffy was attacking *3 different opponents* (he even sent Monster Hody flying later on, when he was going full out), yet we're supposed to be surprised Hyozu managed to get in a lucky block. Or are you trying to imply Luffy couldn't beat Hyozu?


Dunno said:


> Zoro never fought the Yeti cool brothers the same way Sanji never fought the random goons who pumped sleeping gas onto the Thousand Sunny. Luffy had minor trouble with Monet and Zoro one-shot her too.


But Zoro would never have fallen for such a cowardly trick! I wonder how the Brothers did it...
And yeah...trouble with Monet...yet Luffy pulverized Clown...could Luffy's trouble been due to CIS, perhaps? No perish the thought!


Dunno said:


> One of the reasons Zoro's opponents have looked so weak is because they've been one-shot, which is actually quite funny. In the OL, characters look weaker if they one-shot their opponents than if they struggle with them.


Too bad most of his opponents have been fodder.


Dunno said:


> I agree that Law was quite impressive interacting with Doflamingo and Fujitora, *but there's nothing that says that Zoro couldn't have done better*.



Zoro could have handled a Warlord and an Admiral better with no hax powers like Law has...by Leone's underwear...will the wank EVER die?!


Dunno said:


> The logic that you're using to justify your standpoint is a circular one: *Zoro is weaker than Law, so he couldn't have done as well against DD/Fuji. And since Zoro wouldn't have been able to do as well as Law, he's weaker*.





Dunno said:


> Why would Zoro need to be stronger than Luffy to be stronger than Law? Do you think Law is stronger than Luffy, even though (following the usual formula) Luffy will beat DD this arc?


Law IS stronger than Luffy (at least DF-wise). Luffy hasn't shown he can tank something like Law's Mountain Cutter or if he could handle Law's Room.


Dunno said:


> It is possible, but I don't think so. That last remark was also really unnecessary. I prefer debating to throwing insults at each other. If I hurt you by voicing my opinions, it wasn't intentional at all, and I apologize for not formulating them better.


So use facts instead of wanking and offer proof for how Zoro can win this (newsflash, he can't).


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 7, 2013)

Zorro can't take Law. Law wins 10/10 times.





What said:


> Law stopped Doflamingo's Overheat with his "physical strength"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True. Even without his fruit, I cant see Zorro easily overpowering Law in CQC. He's damn impressive in all aspects.


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## Quuon (Nov 7, 2013)

Law wins.


4 pages....


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## Dunno (Nov 7, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Let me see...what were you saying, oh yeah, right here:
> 
> So according to you, Zoro was able to handle opponents that "supposedly" were giving Luffy trouble. No way Luffy could have beaten them if Luffy were out for blood.
> 
> ...



You cannot say that there is any proof that Law can win this. We haven't seen Zoro do anything post-TS, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have anything new to show us. You cannot say that you know how strong Zoro is, and therefore you cannot say that you know Law will win this. Believe it or not, you're wanking Law almost as much as Zorofangirl is wanking Zoro.

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## Ajin (Nov 7, 2013)

You cannot say that there is any proof that Fujitora can win with Urouge. We haven't seen Urouge do anything post-TS, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have anything new to show us. You cannot say that you know how strong Urouge is, and therefore you cannot say that you know Fujitora will win this. 

I'm just sayin'

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## Speedy Jag. (Nov 7, 2013)

Law has a flaw; thus Zoro will solo.


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## Shinthia (Nov 7, 2013)

Zolo will one shoot Law because Zolo is Zolo and Law is not Zolo


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## Dunno (Nov 7, 2013)

Ziomek said:


> You cannot say that there is any proof that Fujitora can win with Urouge. We haven't seen Urouge do anything post-TS, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have anything new to show us. You cannot say that you know how strong Urouge is, and therefore you cannot say that you know Fujitora will win this.
> 
> I'm just sayin'



Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get through. I'm not saying I know Zoro will win. I'm saying that I personally _think_ Zoro would win, because I think he has lots of strong attacks he hasn't shown us. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that Law is stronger too. 

TheTeaIsGood2 on the other hand seems to think he _knows_ that Law is stronger, andhe seems to think it's retarded to think that Zoro is stronger. He claims that he knows Law is stronger and he asked me to provide proof that Zoro could win, so I responded by stating that there's no proof that Law would win either.

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## Beckman (Nov 7, 2013)

Zoro isn't as mobile as Luffy or Smoker, Law is a really bad matchup for him. Law wins with less diff than he did vs Smoker.


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## Bitty (Nov 7, 2013)

Dunno said:


> You cannot say that there is any proof that Law can win this. We haven't seen Zoro do anything post-TS, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have anything new to show us. You cannot say that you know how strong Zoro is, and therefore you cannot say that you know Law will win this. Believe it or not, you're wanking Law almost as much as Zorofangirl is wanking Zoro.



We can say Law is the stronger fighter because he has significantly better feats & has been portrayed as the stronger fighter......at least till Zoro goes all out & shows us more, it's simple as that. Even still it's doubtful Zoro will high-diff one of Luffy's main rivals who wields one of the most overpowered fruits in the series which helped Law simultaneously cut a mountain range & a Vice Admiral CoA master, countered an attack from an admiral & can negate some of the advantages Zoro has in this match up. 

Zoro is not as mobile & fast as characters like Smoker, Sanji, Luffy when it comes to movement speed. He's a tank & more stationary. His fighting design is to go head to head with his opponents, take the damage they give him....then counteract attack. That shit is not going to fly with Law & his devil fruit.

Law has better feats, hype, portrayal etc etc...._these are things we know & have seen._ 
What we don't know is that when Zoro does go all out, if his feats will be better than Law's.  That's proof enough. While Law has already defeated 2 powerful vice admirals & he's still showing us more & more.


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## Mike S (Nov 7, 2013)

Law wins mid diff approaching high diff, mainly because of his hax. Until we see a way to successfully counter against his attacks, it's a bad match-up for Zoro.


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## Halcyon (Nov 7, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> True. Even without his fruit, I cant see Zoro easily overpowering Law in CQC. He's damn impressive in all aspects.


Meh, I don't see Law being a huge threat without his DF. His sword skill isn't nearly as proficient as the Grandmaster's, tru fax


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 7, 2013)

Dunno said:


> You cannot say that there is any proof that Law can win this. We haven't seen Zoro do anything post-TS, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have anything new to show us. You cannot say that you know how strong Zoro is, and therefore you cannot say that you know Law will win this. Believe it or not, you're wanking Law almost as much as Zorofangirl is wanking Zoro.


Ok, we haven't seen how strong Rob Lucci has gotten since the time skip. Lets discuss how he'll kick Zoro's ass.


Bitty said:


> We can say Law is the stronger fighter because he has significantly better feats & has been portrayed as the stronger fighter......at least till Zoro goes all out & shows us more, it's simple as that. Even still it's doubtful Zoro will high-diff one of Luffy's main rivals who wields one of the most overpowered fruits in the series which helped Law simultaneously cut a mountain range & a Vice Admiral CoA master, countered an attack from an admiral & can negate some of the advantages Zoro has in this match up.
> 
> Zoro is not as mobile & fast as characters like Smoker, Sanji, Luffy when it comes to movement speed. He's a tank & more stationary. His fighting design is to go head to head with his opponents, take the damage they give him....then counteract attack. That shit is not going to fly with Law & his devil fruit.
> 
> ...



This post is complete win.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 7, 2013)

Zoro > Law >= Luffy >> Vergo > Smoker > Jinbei=Sanji



Benn Beckman said:


> Zoro isn't as mobile as Luffy or Smoker, Law is a really bad matchup for him. Law wins with less diff than he did vs Smoker.


Zoro doesnt need to dodge Law, he just blocks every slash and pushes Law till he gets sliced.  Its the other way around, Zoro has no problem dealing with Law but Law cant do anything against Zoro.



The Pirate Hunter said:


> Law wins mid diff approaching high diff, mainly because of his hax. Until we see a way to successfully counter against his attacks, it's a bad match-up for Zoro.


Law would cry like a little baby if Zoro pulled out Asura.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 7, 2013)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL THE GREATEST LOL I'VE HAD IN THIS SHITTY DAY(Trust me it's really bad day for me) thank you, really Zorofangirl24 I might have underestimated you a lot and you still makes me laugh ? Man, I love you !


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## Halcyon (Nov 7, 2013)

He gets me every time. When I was noobier I used to quote him and sig it.


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## Kanki (Nov 7, 2013)

I don't really see how anyone can say Zoro is superior at this point. He's done nothing but fight fodder since Thriller Bark - which was close to 5 years ago. 
Remember the days when he seemed to be the 2nd main character?


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## trance (Nov 8, 2013)

Dunno said:


> TheTeaIsGood2 on the other hand seems to think he _knows_ that Law is stronger, andhe seems to think it's retarded to think that Zoro is stronger. He claims that he knows Law is stronger and he asked me to provide proof that Zoro could win, so I responded by stating that there's no proof that Law would win either.



Law has been portrayed as Luffy's rival and as such, he is on Luffy's level, perhaps, even a bit stronger than Luffy atm. Oh but this doesn't compute with you since you think Rayleigh was stronger than Garp.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 8, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Zoro > Law >= Luffy >> Vergo > Smoker > Jinbei=Sanji
> 
> 
> Zoro doesnt need to dodge Law, he just blocks every slash and pushes Law till he gets sliced.  Its the other way around, Zoro has no problem dealing with Law but Law cant do anything against Zoro.
> ...


Well, since this is full intel, Law will know Zoro's one true weakness and use it against him using Room Manipulation, the one thing Zoro has *never* been able to beat...*DIRECTIONS.*



Stαrkiller said:


> Law has been portrayed as Luffy's rival and as such, he is on Luffy's level, perhaps, even a bit stronger than Luffy atm. Oh but this doesn't compute with you since you think *Rayleigh was stronger than Garp*.


Makes sense that an old man who went into retirement, and spent his days drinking and gambling, would be stronger than an old man who remained physically active and fit enough to throw cannonballs like baseballs and knock away WB Commanders with one blow.


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## Dunno (Nov 8, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> Law has been portrayed as Luffy's rival and as such, he is on Luffy's level, perhaps, even a bit stronger than Luffy atm. Oh but this doesn't compute with you since you think Rayleigh was stronger than Garp.



Being Luffy's rival doesn't mean being as strong as him, only that he's at the same general level of strength. If you want a proof for this, consider the fact that both Smoker and Law are rivals of Luffy, and they are not identically strong. If Smoker=Luffy and Law=Luffy would be true, then Smoker=Law would also be true, which it most likely isn't. 

Prime Rayleigh being stronger than Prime Garp isn't as unthinkable as you'd like people to believe. Rayleigh, after drinking heavily and not exercising for 20 years, looked about as strong as Garp did after having been active for those 20 years. Again, I bring up Smoker as an example that rivals don't have to be equally strong. Also, Garp probably cornered Roger a lot of times before Roger reached his prime and became the Pirate King, just like Smoker has done and will continue to do with Luffy.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Claiming that Trafalgar law is stronger than zoro, who mostly has been portrayed as someone with immense physical power by which he can easily cut steel and many other relevant feats that add up to his strength, is an understatement. Really, I am amazed by the amount of people who are still of the opinion that Law is a physical monster. He is not, for it is his Haxxed devil fruit that makes his strength look so vigorous. It compliments his overalls abilities and portrayal as to why he is stronger than zoro; effortlessly cutting a mountain. Cutting someone who has mastery of haki, better than luffy's. Not going to lie, Law has good strength, but it pales in comparison when he is compared to zoro. Just look at it from an abstract point of view. Take his DF power away from him, and take Zoro's swords away, honestly, who do you think would win?

Ect... In this match, however, both have their standards fighting utensils and abilities so to conclude on whom is going to be the victor here is quite difficult... Let's assume that both of their CoA are not superior to one another, since making that argument most likely be useless as to it not being a subject in which we can use adequate proof to conclude on that answer, and, if dragged on, will stagnate this thread even before a person can call a mod upon this thread to close it.

Law is faster when within his Room, although zoro is much faster when law is out of his room prior to utilizing it which zoro will take that as an advantage... So the question is, Will Law put up ROOM faster than Zoro closing the distance? I think not, and honestly, I believe that zoro will give him a hard time, but will still succumb to that haxxed devil fruit power. I guarantee that his haki won't be strong enough to allow him from getting cut since vergo, a veteran of the use of haki got his body decapitated in two.


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## trance (Nov 8, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Being Luffy's rival doesn't mean being as strong as him, only that he's at the same general level of strength. If you want a proof for this, consider the fact that both Smoker and Law are rivals of Luffy, and they are not identically strong. If Smoker=Luffy and Law=Luffy would be true, then Smoker=Law would also be true, which it most likely isn't.



Except so far, Law has the best portrayal. He outright admitted superiority to Vergo (in his full body Haki form) who could overpower both Sanji and Smoker without accessing his full body Haki form.



Dunno said:


> Prime Rayleigh being stronger than Prime Garp isn't as unthinkable as you'd like people to believe. Rayleigh, after drinking heavily and not exercising for 20 years, looked about as strong as Garp did after having been active for those 20 years. Again, I bring up Smoker as an example that rivals don't have to be equally strong.



Except Smoker has *never* brought Luffy close to death "countless times".

The simple fact Garp not only brought Roger close to death but did so consistently implies he was nearly equal, probably as close as you can be without being exactly equal.

Rayleigh has never been stated nor implied to have been that close to his captain and simply being his first mate is not enough.



Dunno said:


> Also, Garp probably cornered Roger a lot of times before *Roger reached his prime* and became the Pirate King, just like Smoker has done and will continue to do with Luffy.





What exactly makes you think Roger wasn't in his prime when he fought Garp?


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## Dunno (Nov 8, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> Except so far, Law has the best portrayal. He outright admitted superiority to Vergo (in his full body Haki form) who could overpower both Sanji and Smoker without accessing his full body Haki form.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree Law has better portrayal than Smoker. All I did was show that being a rival to someone does not prove that you are equally strong. 

Some translations say "brought close to death countless times", other says "cornered countless times", I don't know which one is correct, but if it's the former, then that adds a bit more fuel to Garp's cause. Regarding the "countless" aspect, Both Roger and Garp were pretty old when Roger died, which means that they probably fought for tens of years, giving Garp much more time to corner/almost kill Roger than Smoker gets to do the same to Luffy. 

When it comes to the relationship between Roger and Rayleigh, we don't have that much to go on. The only time we've seen them interact is when Roger was going to die, and he called Rayleigh "partner", implicating some kind of equality. Rayleigh's relationship with Roger seems, to me at least, pretty similar to Zoro's relationship with Luffy, and I think Zoro could give Luffy extreme diff.


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## Vengeance (Nov 8, 2013)

I'm afraid Zoro can't block Laws ability yet, only dodge it maybe. So Law should take it.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 8, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Really, I am amazed by the amount of people who are still of the opinion that Law is a physical monster. He is not, for it is his Haxxed devil fruit that makes his strength look so vigorous.


he really is though. He was able to clash with Smoker who, despite being a physical powerhouse, has a devil fruit focusing on nothing but speed, mobility and increasing the force of his attacks. Laws got plent of strength and speed, and we know he's got plenty of endurance from hir performance against Vergo and against Fuji and Dofla.



> It compliments his overalls abilities and portrayal as to why he is stronger than zoro; effortlessly cutting a mountain. Cutting someone who has mastery of haki, better than luffy's. Not going to lie, Law has good strength, but it pales in comparison when he is compared to zoro. Just look at it from an abstract point of view. Take his DF power away from him, and take Zoro's swords away, honestly, who do you think would win?


Zorro doesnt have better haki than Luffy, and Law would would whoop  a sword-less Zorro. Did you really miss the part where he blocked Doflas Overheat (apparently a stronger move than the one that destroyed a building back on Dressrosa) with no trouble?



> Law is faster when within his Room, although zoro is much faster when law is out of his room prior to utilizing it which zoro will take that as an advantage... So the question is, Will Law put up ROOM faster than Zoro closing the distance? I think not, and honestly, I believe that zoro will give him a hard time, but will still succumb to that haxxed devil fruit power. I guarantee that his haki won't be strong enough to allow him from getting cut since vergo, a veteran of the use of haki got his body decapitated in two.


wait, you think Zorro can speedblitz Law? come on now.


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## Freechoice (Nov 8, 2013)

Just because Law doesn't utilize/rely on his strength and speed, doesn't mean he is not capable in those aspects.


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## Halcyon (Nov 8, 2013)

I still think it's safe to say Zoro is physically superior, I could be wrong of course, but that's just how I see it.

Zoro isn't winning this particular match up, anyway. Everything else is irrelevant.


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## Furinji Saiga (Nov 8, 2013)

What said:


> Just because Law doesn't utilize/rely on his strength and speed, doesn't mean he is not capable in those aspects.



He is and it is foolish for one to do deny that he is good in them, but Zoro who specializes in them is clearly the superior one in things like strength, endurance, durability, physical speed etc.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 8, 2013)

Law must have something of Pre TS Luffy or Zoro physical at least, I think he could be able to cut through a pacifista(Whithout using Room and using all of his strength) and I don't think he would overpower Zoro in lifting and striking strength .


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## Freechoice (Nov 8, 2013)

Furinji Saiga said:


> He is and it is foolish for one to do deny that he is good in them, but Zoro who specializes in them is* clearly the superior* one in things like* strength, endurance, durability, physical speed* etc.



What makes you say that? What is so clear? Assumptions? Hype? Portrayal? Direct quote from Oda?


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## Furinji Saiga (Nov 8, 2013)

What said:


> What makes you say that? What is so clear? Assumptions? Hype? Portrayal? Direct quote from Oda?



Zoro has a tonne of physical, endurance, durability, and speed feats
Most of Law's feats are feats are based on his DF, 

right now we are talking about DF Less Law and how strong he is without his fruit, so far he has shown good endurance from being able to take attacks from Vergo/Dofla/ and Fuji, but that is about it.  

What do you think Law can also defeat Zoro without his DF?


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## Freechoice (Nov 8, 2013)

Oh most certainly not.

However... it is far too soon to make a snap judgement either way.

I was just wondering what made you think it was so clear that Zoro has better endurance, strength, durability, speed etc.


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## Furinji Saiga (Nov 8, 2013)

What said:


> *Oh most certainly not.*
> 
> However... it is far too soon to make a snap judgement either way.
> 
> I was just wondering what made you think it was so clear that Zoro has better endurance, strength, durability, speed etc.



oh thank god

Well I stated Law has good physical abilities, but surely you would agree the vast majority of Law's power comes from his DF, it is after all what he focuses primarily on. 

Zoro has time and again shown us he is physical monster, we have so many feats for that, taking in Luffy's damage on top of his own for endurance, continuous slashes from Mr 1 , dodging the Paw cannons of Kuma while in a damaged state for impressive speed, lifting the massive house( btw this is an Alabasta feat), casually blocking off Oars Jr attack, blitzing Hodi underwater, cutting the massive Galleon, Tentacle, and Dragon. Two of those feats were performed under water. 

He is a power of destruction user, which means the vast majority of his techniques are based off his massive physical strength. So if You think about it in this term, then Zoro who pre-skip was able to perform 36 Pound Cannon attack pre skip, and now he can casually do 360 Pound Cannon attack, then I think its pretty safe to assume he transcended his already massive physical strength that he has in the time skip by many levels. Even then he has not shown us the extent of physical abilities considering his feats are lacking against higher level opponents.


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## Canute87 (Nov 8, 2013)

What said:


> Oh most certainly not.
> 
> However... it is far too soon to make a snap judgement either way.
> 
> I was just wondering what made you think it was so clear that Zoro has better endurance, strength, durability, speed etc.



Zoro is going to have better endurance  because Law's DF eats away at his.  

But other than that:

Law was capable to holding off smoker, It was obvious that smoker had the upper hand but that scene shows that law has decent enough physical power of his own to not get immediately overpowered and i'd love to see what people use to judge Zoro being physically stronger than Smoker.

Durability doesn't matter as law's DF ignores that.

Zoro faster than law 

Zoro isn't going to win simply because his haki isn't strong enough and his fighting style encourages blocking more than dodging. And there's just TOO much things law can do in this fight that Zoro simply can't ignore because he isn't a logia.


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## Slenderman (Nov 8, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Being Luffy's rival doesn't mean being as strong as him, only that he's at the same general level of strength. If you want a proof for this, consider the fact that both Smoker and Law are rivals of Luffy, and they are not identically strong. If Smoker=Luffy and Law=Luffy would be true, then Smoker=Law would also be true, which it most likely isn't.
> 
> Prime Rayleigh being stronger than Prime Garp isn't as unthinkable as you'd like people to believe. Rayleigh, after drinking heavily and not exercising for 20 years, looked about as strong as Garp did after having been active for those 20 years. Again, I bring up Smoker as an example that rivals don't have to be equally strong. Also, Garp probably cornered Roger a lot of times before Roger reached his prime and became the Pirate King, just like Smoker has done and will continue to do with Luffy.



Prime Garp> Prime Ray. Prime Garp almost brought his captain to death. You can say that was before his prime but that's a baseless assumption.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 8, 2013)

Pre skip Zoro tended to take a lot of hits before he finished his opponent off. That simply would not fly with law. 1 hit and it's over.

I hope Post skip has more finesse like against ryuuma.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 8, 2013)

Except Law will never not even in his dreams land a slash on Zoro. Zoro just blocks it then Asuras him to oblivion.


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## Halcyon (Nov 8, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Except Law will never not even in his dreams land a slash on Zoro. Zoro just blocks it then Asuras him to oblivion.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 8, 2013)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Except Law will never not even in his dreams land a slash on Zoro. Zoro just blocks it then Asuras him to oblivion.



Zorro has a better hake defense than Vergo? I doubt it.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 8, 2013)

Guys relax, it's a troll. Don't feed it.


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## Shinthia (Nov 8, 2013)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> Guys relax, it's a troll. Don't feed it.



what if they know he is a troll and still wanna feed it


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> he really is though. He was able to clash with Smoker who, despite being a physical powerhouse, has a devil fruit focusing on nothing but speed, mobility and increasing the force of his attacks. Laws got plent of strength and speed, and we know he's got plenty of endurance from hir performance against Vergo and against Fuji and Dofla.
> 
> Zorro doesnt have better haki than Luffy, and Law would would whoop  a sword-less Zorro. Did you really miss the part where he blocked Doflas Overheat (apparently a stronger move than the one that destroyed a building back on Dressrosa) with no trouble?
> 
> wait, you think Zorro can speedblitz Law? come on now.



He is not a physical monster, that is something which people overly use based on the fact that he slashed the mountain of which his devil fruit did all of it. Okay, he clashed with smoker, that doesn't necessarily imply that he has the requisite skills to tango with a monster who has experience in many death matches and his focal strong points are located in his swordsmanship, whereas Law does not, outside of his ROOM. Law does not have speed side from when he is within his devil fruit, and as for his strength? Him cutting the meteor is irrelevant to attest said feat to his strength since it was his ROOM (Ability which decapitates things by which it ignores durability) that complimented his slash power.. can't really call it power. What endurance? His endurance is akin to that of Zoro's if I remember correctly.


That's a strawman you just flooded your post with. Have nothing against you, but that comment of yours proves that you're arguing against a non existent, distorted, exaggerated version of the argument Never have I claimed in my post that Zoro's haki is superior to that of Luffy's. I honestly cannot comprehend where you stated I said such a thing. No, again, I never stated that Law would have to fight a sword-less zoro, but the former would have to be fighting sans any of his equipment's or any of his abilities whilst engaging in a fight with Zoro; The latter is simply too monstrous, we've seen him effortlessly carry weights, tons to be precise, and swinging them as if they were a balloon... as for Law? He was pretty useless without his devil fruit and I doubt he would have been able to survive against that admiral and Doflamingo if he were deprived of his standard equipment's.

Again, I don't know why you don't put emphasis on your posts in which you're presumably saying things that I never stated, like Zoro being faster than Law... I stated that Zoro is faster than law when the latter is out of his room, which said ROOM mostly epitomizes on speed when he is within that ROOM. Law has never been seen or portrayed as someone who is fast, whereas Zoro has, mostly when he's engaged in battles... effortlessly closing the distance in less than a second...


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Furinji Saiga said:


> He is and it is foolish for one to do deny that he is good in them, but Zoro who specializes in them is clearly the superior one in things like strength, endurance, durability, physical speed etc.



I don't know how one doesn't realize this, but I completely agree with you... and even if they were to say otherwise, the burden of proof would be on them, as we base our facts on the absence of proof that would suggest that Law is good in those aspects, actually, it's not that we don't have proof, we do actually, look at him not being able to stand his ground against vergo, and look when he is fighting vergo while he has his DF, vergo was afraid of his DF for he knows its capabilities... yadayada, I agree with you.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 8, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Okay, he clashed with smoker, that doesn't necessarily imply that he has the requisite skills to tango with a monster who has experience in many death matches and his focal strong points are located in his swordsmanship,


What? that's exactly what that means, and his performance there vouches for his physical abilities.


> What endurance? His endurance is akin to that of Zoro's if I remember correctly.


one shotting Vergo after getting beaten down and having his heart squeezed? getting up from being smacked around by Dofla and an admiral, and then still having the strength to challenge Dofla one on one? impressive stuff. Law is no slouch in any department.


> That's a strawman you just flooded your post with. Have nothing against you, but that comment of yours proves that you're arguing against a non existent, distorted, exaggerated version of the argument Never have I claimed in my post that Zoro's haki is superior to that of Luffy's. I honestly cannot comprehend where you stated I said such a thing.


Dont worry about it, I just misread your post.


> No, again, I never stated that Law would have to fight a sword-less zoro, but the former would have to be fighting sans any of his equipment's or any of his abilities whilst engaging in a fight with Zoro;


_Take his DF power away from him, and take Zoro's swords away, honestly, who do you think would win?_
Pretty sure that's what you said. You didnt mention anything about Law not having his sword though. 


> He was pretty useless without his devil fruit


when did that happen?


> Again, I don't know why you don't put emphasis on your posts in which you're presumably saying* things that I never stated, like Zoro being faster than Law*... *I stated that Zoro is faster than law when the latter is out of his room*, which said ROOM mostly epitomizes on speed when he is within that ROOM. Law has never been seen or portrayed as someone who is fast, whereas Zoro has, mostly when he's engaged in battles... effortlessly closing the distance in less than a second...


what? thats the same thing. since when does room increase speed?


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> What? that's exactly what that means, and his performance there vouches for his physical abilities.
> one shotting Vergo after getting beaten down and having his heart squeezed? getting up from being smacked around by Dofla and an admiral, and then still having the strength to challenge Dofla one on one? impressive stuff. Law is no slouch in any department.
> Dont worry about it, I just misread your post.
> _Take his DF power away from him, and take Zoro's swords away, honestly, who do you think would win?_
> ...




How so? Simply clashing with smoker does not necessarily imply that he has great physical attributes. It's not a feat that leaves us all in awe solely based on said feat.

Okay, he's had his heart squeezed, but what does that imply, really? Frankly speaking, Oda wasn't going to allow Law getting killed, he of course had plans for law in the near future.  Smacked by Doflamingo and isho? that was hardly an impressive feat and if you read my comment above, Oda wasn't going to allow him to die...  Law having the endurance to fight Doflamingo is all thanks to his devil fruit which allows him to deflect any attacks by which his slashes, in conjunction to his room, which ignore durability and being able to teleport back and forth thus allowing him to dodge an attack. Like I stated, his Devil fruit is highly consistent to complimenting his statistics to which were severally inadequate in base form.

It's common sense that I implied Law being useless sans his sword, too, you can deduce by that comment that I was trying to get a good view on how Law fairs up without his Devil fruit power and other relevant equipments that he uses. Look at the point of my argument, and you'll know that I implied  the aforementioned.

When did that happened? It happened not too long ago, when he had no time to utilize his ROOM considering that Vergo was closing the distance at quite a pace, couldn't react to vergo's speed, who is more or less equal to zoro, if not, a bit stronger, and couldn't remotely do anything other than zap him which proved useless...

When Law is within his devil fruit, he can teleport. It is a form of speed for him since it allows him to dodge attacks that  can prove deadly.


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## tanman (Nov 8, 2013)

There's no solid reason to side with one over the other in physical ability.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 8, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> How so? Simply clashing with smoker does not necessarily imply that he has great physical attributes. It's not a feat that leaves us all in awe solely based on said feat.


Smoker is a physical powerhouse who amplifies his abilities with his fruit. Law was fully capable of keeping up with his speed and blocked his blows. it shows that he has "the requisite skills to tango with a monster who has experience in many death matches and his focal strong points are located in his swordsmanship," aka Zorro. if Smoker couldnt easily overwhelm him, I doubt that Zorro can.



> Okay, he's had his heart squeezed, but what does that imply, really? Frankly speaking, Oda wasn't going to allow Law getting killed, he of course had plans for law in the near future.  Smacked by Doflamingo and isho? that was hardly an impressive feat and if you read my comment above, Oda wasn't going to allow him to die...  Law having the endurance to fight Doflamingo is all thanks to his devil fruit which allows him to deflect any attacks by which his slashes, in conjunction to his room, which ignore durability and being able to teleport back and forth thus allowing him to dodge an attack. Like I stated, his Devil fruit is highly consistent to complimenting his statistics to which were severally inadequate in base form.


we'll have to agree to disagree on endurance.



> It's common sense that I implied Law being useless sans his sword, too, you can deduce by that comment that I was trying to get a good view on how Law fairs up without his Devil fruit power and other relevant equipments that he uses. Look at the point of my argument, and you'll know that I implied  the aforementioned.


you expected me to catch that? it looked like you were saying Law was such a crappy swordsman that he'd lose to a weaponless Zorro.


> When did that happened? It happened not too long ago, when he had no time to utilize his ROOM considering that Vergo was closing the distance at quite a pace, couldn't react to vergo's speed, who is more or less equal to zoro, if not, a bit stronger, and couldn't remotely do anything other than zap him which proved useless...


what? he had plenty of time to use room. he got hit because he was focused on getting his heart back, and then Vergo started squeezing it. Law already showed that he was capable of stopping a charging Vergo.


> When Law is within his devil fruit, he can teleport. It is a form of speed for him since it allows him to dodge attacks that  can prove deadly.


cool. he's still not getting blitzed though.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Smoker is a physical powerhouse who amplifies his abilities with his fruit. Law was fully capable of keeping up with his speed and blocked his blows. it shows that he has "the requisite skills to tango with a monster who has experience in many death matches and his focal strong points are located in his swordsmanship," aka Zorro. if Smoker couldnt easily overwhelm him, I doubt that Zorro can.
> 
> we'll have to agree to disagree on endurance.
> 
> ...




As much as i am loathe to repeating my self, in this case, I have to; No, that still isn't a great testament to Law's physical attributes. All he did was momentarily clash with smoker and had trouble most of the time. Dodge some of his blows which most of which were dodge by him teleporting out of the way. I don't know why you insist that it is such a tremendous feat, but in my eyes, and in the eyes of many other devoted One piece fans, that clash was hardly anything that would put him above Zoro. Smoker's speed isn't something to be amazed about. He boosts his speed from propelling himself with smoke, doubt it is anything faster than what Luffy can do.   You doubt that Zoro can clash with smoker? That is an understatement in an attempt to undermine the guy.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. To say Zoro can't do this or that because he hasn't yet shown the ability to is poor reasoning. 

That's what I was saying, and the facts repudiate anything you have to hand on the table; Trafalgar law has shown himself to be a weaker swordsman than zoro. Yes, he might of have been able to clash with smoker, but what's to say that smoker's expertise with his Jutte is any better than that of Zoro's? Not happening. 


Poor reasoning at play here. If he had plenty of time to utilize his room, then for the sake of time, and for his motives, why didn't he done so? Because he didn't want to? That's utterly false and shows how you didn't contemplate on your argument. The fact still remains about how Trafalgar Law was blitzed by vergo prior to having had the chance to utilizing his ROOM. The charging vergo argument is completely irrelevant here, as it does not pertain to anything to what we're conversing about. Yes, he's shown to being capable of cutting a charging vergo, although that's only when he has his room already set up. Don't get me wrong, Law would win if he has the first with whilst using his devil fruit ability, but if zoro, as I stated in my initial post, closes the distance much prior to law's first move, then zoro would simply prove too much for a devil fruitless law, as did vergo point out.

Never have I stated such a thing? Another form of rhetoric?


----------



## Orca (Nov 8, 2013)

Law is not beating zoro without his Df.

OT: I think law wins currently due to feats but it would be a very close fight. Though we'd be able to form a better opinion after seeing zoro go all out.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Luffee said:


> Law is not beating zoro without his Df.
> 
> OT: I think law wins currently due to feats but it would be a very close fight. Though we'd be able to form a better opinion after seeing zoro go all out.



Exactly. Law is pretty useless when he is deprived of his Devil fruit power. He wouldn't even have been able to cut the punk hazard mountain and that comparison would be akin to an ant trying to lift a building. Even though that would be unfair, pitting a DF-less law against zoro, it stills conveys to us that Law is overrated sans his DF... But, nevertheless, I'd give this match to law for he simply is too haxxed. High difficulty, however.


----------



## Tiger (Nov 8, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> Zoro is going to have better endurance  because Law's DF eats away at his.
> 
> But other than that:
> 
> ...



Whoa wait...

You think Smoker is physically stronger than Zoro? Just so I know what we're talking about here...if they were tasked with who could literally lift more weight, you'd side with Smoker over Zoro...not only that, but snidely laugh at those who'd have the nerve to try and say Zoro is stronger?



tanman said:


> There's no solid reason to side with one over the other in physical ability.



Except Zoro's main attribute is his superhuman physical strength. When you see Law literally lift up a building with his hand, then there'd be a reason to say this. Law has shown nothing to put him on the same level, purely physically, that Zoro is on.

That doesn't mean Zoro's going to beat him, just because he's way fucking stronger, but for fuck sakes - understand a character's limitations. Law is not the kind of fighter who wants to be in a prolonged close-quarters fight. He doesn't have the strength or the toughness that a brawler has.

He's a tactical genius, who will keep you away from him as much as possible, and use leverage and momentum to accomplish power feats rather than brute force.

Stop trying to give him some imaginary physical prowess he has never shown the penchant for. He doesn't need it to win...nor is there any reason to believe he has it, period. He doesn't need physical power to cut people with his sword like other sword-users do.


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 8, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> As much as i am loathe to repeating my self, in this case, I have to; No, that still isn't a great testament to Law's physical attributes.


then we'll have to agree to disagree.


> That's what I was saying, and the facts repudiate anything you have to hand on the table;


no they dont. we just have different views on whats an impressive showing.


> Trafalgar law has shown himself to be a weaker swordsman than zoro. Yes, he might of have been able to clash with smoker, but what's to say that smoker's expertise with his Jutte is any better than that of Zoro's? Not happening.


? I doubt that Zorro isso much better than Smoker that he's gonna dump all over Law in CqC.



> Poor reasoning at play here. If he had plenty of time to utilize his room, then for the sake of time, and for his motives, why didn't he done so? Because he didn't want to? That's utterly false and shows how you didn't contemplate on your argument. The fact still remains about how Trafalgar Law was blitzed by vergo prior to having had the chance to utilizing his ROOM.



*Spoiler*: __ 









> The charging vergo argument is completely irrelevant here, as it does not pertain to anything to what we're conversing about. Yes, he's shown to being capable of cutting a charging vergo, although that's only when he has his room already set up. Don't get me wrong, Law would win if he has the first with whilst using his devil fruit ability, but if zoro, as I stated in my initial post, closes the distance much prior to law's first move, then zoro would simply prove too much for a devil fruitless law, as did vergo point out.


and we hit the first point again. Law was clearly able to use his abilities while being pushed by Smoker, but you believe that Zorro is so incredible that Law wouldnt be able to throw up a Room against him if he got in close? I cant even think of a time where Law was too slow throwing up his room.



> Never have I stated such a thing? Another form of rhetoric?


>>>





> Will Law put up ROOM faster than Zoro closing the distance? I think not,


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> then we'll have to agree to disagree.
> no they dont. we just have different views on whats an impressive showing.
> ? I doubt that Zorro isso much better than Smoker that he's gonna dump all over Law in CqC.
> 
> ...




How so?

Why bring Isso into the equation? he's irrelevant. Zoro would literally obliterate smoker in terms of swordsmanship. 

And that scan proves nothing. It just proves that law would get the same treatment from zoro too. Like i stated on my initial post, if law cannot put up ROOM before zoro closes the distance, then it would simply be the same as the scan you just posted.

Yes, Law clearly used his ability, but that is because smoker did NOT charge at law thus pressurizing law to use it in a state of worriment. Smoker wasn't charging at him, he waited until the room engulfed the surrounding area, he attacked and most of his attacks proved useless which followed by smoker getting his heart ripped out by mes. No, you misread my post, and you've been doing so since the beginning, hence why you agree that you miss read a part of my post 4 posts ago; I stated, and I stand firm and clear, that if Zoro closes the distance before Law engulfs the ground in which He and Zoro are standing, then it will most likely be law's victor, since zoro would have to concentrate on dodging rather than counterattacking from his slashes... Please review this.

Why do you deliberately keep on misreading my posts? my post of which stated that "where did you state such thing" was aimed at your post that was made prior to said post which supposedly is stemming more confusion than its context implies it should. I reiterate, where did I state  Zoro will be blitzing Law? Just because I am of the opinion that law won't put up his room prior to zoro closing the distance, the substance of that comment didn't imply that law would be blitzed, thus losing. Do you even know the definition of blitz? To lost by your opponents sheer speed. Did I state that Law would lose by being blizted from zoro's speed? No, all I stated was if zoro comes close to law, they'll clash, zoro will have the upper hand and pressurize law with his sheer force until he can get a clean hit... It's the same overall argument if we were to claim that Law puts up Room before zoro closes in; slashing zoro, teleporting away from zoro until the latter gets tired, thus a clean hit, decapitating zoro. I base my deduction from the time in which Law and vergo fought; It's the same, vergo was punching a "devil fruitless" law as if the latter were a rag-doll (could have killed law, but plot, alas), although when Law retained his devil fruit powers with enough space between he and vergo, the chances of winning were with him.


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

The winner of this fight isn't based upon destructiveness, since we are all aware of the fact that Zoro's physical power far outclasses that of Law, though that argument becomes void when law's slashes, within his DF, repudiate anything Zoro has to do for they're akin to destructiveness, but from an abstract point of view. Speed is in favor to law if he engulfs the area in which Zoro is standing on, however, if zoro closes the distance before Law puts said room from swallowing the ground, then the speed is in favor to zoro.


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## Slenderman (Nov 8, 2013)

If I remember correctly Smoker at one point of him and Law fighting he chokeslammed Law.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 8, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> If I remember correctly Smoker at one point of him and Law fighting he chokeslammed Law.



Which thus proves that....?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Why bring Isso into the equation? he's irrelevant. Zoro would literally obliterate smoker in terms of swordsmanship.


isso = is so. I missed a space. and no Zorro would not obliterate Smoker. if you really believe that, then lets just agree to disagree.



> And that scan proves nothing. It just proves that law would get the same treatment from zoro too. Like i stated on my initial post, if law cannot put up ROOM before zoro closes the distance, then it would simply be the same as the scan you just posted.


Law clearly had no problem putting up a room, and iirc, he never has in any other instance either. He was hit because he was distracted with trying to get his heart back.



> Yes, Law clearly used his ability, but that is because smoker did NOT charge at law thus pressurizing law to use it in a state of worriment. Smoker wasn't charging at him, he waited until the room engulfed the surrounding area, he attacked and most of his attacks proved useless which followed by smoker getting his heart ripped out by mes.


Why should Room be so  much slower than all of Laws other abilities? when has anyone ever stopped setting up a Room? lets agree to disagree.


> No, you misread my post, and you've been doing so since the beginning, hence why you agree that you miss read a part of my post 4 posts ago; I stated, and I stand firm and clear, that if Zoro closes the distance before Law engulfs the ground in which He and Zoro are standing, then it will most likely be law's victor, since zoro would have to concentrate on dodging rather than counterattacking from his slashes... Please review this.


so we both at least agree that Law wins no matter what? great.



> Why do you deliberately keep on misreading my posts? my post of which stated that "where did you state such thing" was aimed at your post that was made prior to said post which supposedly is stemming more confusion than its context implies it should. I reiterate, where did I state  Zoro will be blitzing Law? Just because I am of the opinion that law won't put up his room prior to zoro closing the distance, the substance of that comment didn't imply that law would be blitzed, thus losing. Do you even know the definition of blitz? To lost by your opponents sheer speed. Did I state that Law would lose by being blizted from zoro's speed? No, all I stated was if zoro comes close to law, they'll clash, zoro will have the upper hand and pressurize law with his sheer force until he can get a clean hit... It's the same overall argument if we were to claim that Law puts up Room before zoro closes in; slashing zoro, teleporting away from zoro until the latter gets tired, thus a clean hit, decapitating zoro. I base my deduction from the time in which Law and vergo fought; It's the same, vergo was punching a "devil fruitless" law as if the latter were a rag-doll (could have killed law, but plot, alas), although when Law retained his devil fruit powers with enough space between he and vergo, the chances of winning were with him.


Zorro moving so fast that Law cant even use his most basic setup ability? That would be a blitz. its not happening.
Vergo didn't kick a devilfruit-less Law. He was clearly standing inside of Laws room.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 9, 2013)

IijiNijiSanji said:


> Guys relax, it's a troll. Don't feed it.



Please, let me do it ? I promise it won't get to page 10 .


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## Sayonara (Nov 9, 2013)

I cant believe its come down to small minority now suspecting Law is superior to Zoro physically or in CQC. I wouldn't even assume they are close to equal in those fields, Zoro is purely  physical CQC fighter while Law is not.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 9, 2013)

^Who thinks that?


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> his strength feats outside of his ROOM pale in comparison to that of Zoro's...



Ohhh... we're basing our implications _purely_ on feats are we?

Well then, this is news to me!

This is mind blowing. Fuck.

Because of this recent revelation, I just realized Zoro > Dragon! 

Etc.

Notice young one, that I am using an exaggerated hypothetical in order to prove a point. 

The reason I said that instead of relying on you to use your inductive reasoning/critical thinking skills to figure out what I was doing, is simply because of the fact that evidently you don't have any.

Now here's a brain teaser for you - what is my point?


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

Please contact my anus for further questioning.


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

Make sure you wash your hands thoroughly though.

Before and after.


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## Slenderman (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Which thus proves that....?



He's not that great in the CQC department since when Smoker got physical he wasn't able to fight bask and had to rely on shambles.


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## Dr. White (Nov 9, 2013)

No he was matching Smoker physically strike for strike, it was smoker DF, and maneuverability that allowed him to grip down Law, don't go making up stuff Slender.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> isso = is so. I missed a space. and no Zorro would not obliterate Smoker. if you really believe that, then lets just agree to disagree.
> 
> Law clearly had no problem putting up a room, and iirc, he never has in any other instance either. He was hit because he was distracted with trying to get his heart back.
> 
> ...



Zoro is simply too monstrous when it comes to fighting, he would literally make smoker blow smoker out of his arse after he would be done with him. The guy is Luffy's equal and he is a margin weaker than the latter. Hopefully in the next arc we see Zoro fighting a notable opponent so we can properly judge is he stronger or weaker than Smoker. If he shows some impressive haki feats he should take this since Smokers DF is a hindering against better haki users.

Okay, what does that imply? If you actually scrutinized on the meaning of my argument, you'd know that I implied that Law was beaten prior to him fully having the time to utilize his room in an attempt to slash his opponent. The sheer amount of time it takes Law to fully use his ROOM is ridiculous and would ponder on whether an opponent would be smart enough to take advantage of said time it takes him to put it up.

You misread your own argument again. I responded to the prior argument which you made about how Law put room before he and smoker started to fight. I then argued your point by stating that smoker didn't charge and hadn't put enough pressure on Law, which he should have, in order to at least not allow him to use his haxxed ability, so i don't know how this argument of yours has any relevance to what we're discussing. 

Again, you keep on misreading it. I never attested my point, and, I never fully confirmed my motives of which I claimed that it is highly likely that Zoro would take advantage of Law thus speedblitzing him, if you went back to several arguments above, you'd know that I stated that the winner is dictated by whoever makes the first move; Zoro is fully aware of how haxxed law is, therefore, he'd want to beat law as quickly as possible giving him no chance, the same rule is applicable to zoro himself, law, too, is aware of how strong zoro is, so he's going to try to use his room before zoro closes the distance on now allowing him to use his ROOM. It would be the same vergo scenario all over again, and about your point on law using room already prior to vergo coming to attack, the guy's sword was unsheathed and I highly doubt that he was ready to attack vergo, it's basically what I was saying making it akin to the argument in which you replied to. Dfless; defenseless law who is not using his ROOM properly.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> No he was matching Smoker physically strike for strike, it was smoker DF, and maneuverability that allowed him to grip down Law, don't go making up stuff Slender.



@slender, basically, if you read this, it should clear up things.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

What said:


> Ohhh... we're basing our implications _purely_ on feats are we?
> 
> Well then, this is news to me!
> 
> ...




This right here is an irrelevant derailment in which you used solely to not have to deal with my argument. You should not use arbitrary excuses to sway around from the original argument. Try being firm and clear rather than confusing your opponent with things that shouldn't pertain in a discussion about two fictional characters. The point being is that Zoro is much stronger than Law in the physical department, however, that argument turns null and void when Law's slashes basically ignore durability by which his room engulfs you. Law pales in comparison, as I stated, to zoro, and that's proof. You're claiming that I don't have any inductive reasoning simply because my argument differed from that of yours by which I agreed with the prior user that you were arguing with? What's more pathetic is that you resort to negging me calling me a noob because of said antics? That's utterly pathetic and shows how you need to grow a thicker skin. Ad hominem... ok, another false claim. You're just adding the pile, user, WHAT. Nope, you were arguing over anger rather than actually accepting the extremely, painful truth, though don't take it as an insult, as I have already addressed my point prior to my previous comment, it is a natural response in which we humans feel the need to express ourselves. The only thing you are debunking is my theory that you're a crappy pro wrestler: you talked way too mauch nonsense of thereof and then have to eat your words, words that have heavily backfired upon you. Now you seem more like an evil necromancer since you keep resuscitating tons of points I've already addressed my input to.


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## Shinthia (Nov 9, 2013)

> Yes, he did, that's a testament to his strength and proves how strong he is, but alas, his strength feats outside of his ROOM pale in comparison to that of Zoro's...



what physical strength feat does Zoro have that makes Law's Over Heat (a attack so powerful that it traveled to Dressrosa in sec) blocking feat with pure physical strength pale in comparison ? Tell me.


Its u who have to prove Zoro's physical strength is on a different level than Law, not us. Law has proved that his physical strength is not something to laugh about. What has Zoro done after TS that u r saying such things so confidently ?


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> This right here is an irrelevant derailment in which you used solely to not have to deal with my argument. You should not use arbitrary excuses to sway around from the original argument. Try being firm and clear rather than confusing your opponent with things that shouldn't pertain in a discussion about two fictional characters. The point being is that Zoro is much stronger than Law in the physical department, however, that argument turns null and void when Law's slashes basically ignore durability by which his room engulfs you. Law pales in comparison, as I stated, to zoro, and that's proof. You're claiming that I don't have any inductive reasoning simply because my argument differed from that of yours by which I agreed with the prior user that you were arguing with? What's more pathetic is that you resort to negging me calling me a noob because of said antics? That's utterly pathetic and shows how you need to grow a thicker skin. Ad hominem... ok, another false claim. You're just adding the pile, user, WHAT. Nope, you were arguing over anger rather than actually accepting the extremely, painful truth, though don't take it as an insult, as I have already addressed my point prior to my previous comment, it is a natural response in which we humans feel the need to express ourselves. The only thing you are debunking is my theory that you're a crappy pro wrestler: you talked way too mauch nonsense of thereof and then have to eat your words, words that have heavily backfired upon you. Now you seem more like an evil necromancer since you keep resuscitating tons of points I've already addressed my input to.



Ugh. Wall of text.

tl;dr

You talk a lot for a cripple, you know?


----------



## Sayonara (Nov 9, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> what physical strength feat does Zoro have that makes Law's Over Heat (a attack so powerful that it traveled to Dressrosa in sec) blocking feat with pure physical strength pale in comparison ? Tell me.
> 
> 
> Its u who have to prove Zoro's physical strength is on a different level than Law, not us. Law has proved that his physical strength is not something to laugh about. What has Zoro done after TS that u r saying such things so confidently ?




Over heats range is impressive but its  power appears to lie in its cutting more than brute force. Blocking from Law was great feat but you can even tell from his stance how he caught the attack , solid technique and reaction speed not so much emphasis on  'pure physical' power (though without doubt it required some).

Also you don't have to look as far as postskip to compare, Zoro parraying Oars fist was more direct showing of 'pure physical force'. Again thats not to say Law couldnt do the same, but when it comes to physical strength alone he hasn't shown enough , the burden of proof is on him.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> what physical strength feat does Zoro have that makes Law's Over Heat (a attack so powerful that it traveled to Dressrosa in sec) blocking feat with pure physical strength pale in comparison ? Tell me.
> 
> 
> Its u who have to prove Zoro's physical strength is on a different level than Law, not us. Law has proved that his physical strength is not something to laugh about. What has Zoro done after TS that u r saying such things so confidently ?



Can you please post a scan of the over mentioned attack that people are basing law's physical strength on, which is somehow hyping law more than he really shouldn't be hyped to?

Well, I am rather left in a state of aghast to witness that people don't view zoro as being physical stronger than Trafalgar law. Zoro literally cut a pacifista with an un-named attack. He pushed two buildings apart while he was injured, something which Law has never been seen doing outside of his ROOM or any feat that requires physical strength for that matter. He was stronger than Mr. 1 who can hack buildings to pieces. The guy cut the dragon's head which even a jet pistol imbued haki couldn't dent. Many other feats which put him above law, seriously, take Law's devil fruit away and all his prior feats in which he had his devil fruit will be something that his current form would be unable to replicate and comparable to an ant trying to lift a building.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

What said:


> Ugh. Wall of text.
> 
> tl;dr
> 
> You talk a lot for a cripple, you know?



Hey, man, can we not start anything? I'd like to be friends with you and get to know you better, you seem intelligent and all, but cal we start all over?


----------



## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Hey, man, can we not start anything? I'd like to be friends with you and get to know you better, you seem intelligent and all, but cal we start all over?



Ok sounds good.

Let's be bestest friends forever.

I love internet friendships.

I care deeply for them.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

What said:


> Ok sounds good.
> 
> Let's be bestest friends forever.
> 
> ...



Seriously, just stop writing on my VM, and I'll do the same...


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Seriously, just stop writing on my VM, and I'll do the same...



How about I VM on your writing?


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## Vengeance (Nov 9, 2013)

What, what's wrong with you lol


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## Shinthia (Nov 9, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> *Over heats range is impressive but its  power appears to lie in its cutting more than brute force*. Blocking from Law was great feat but you can even tell from his stance how he caught the attack , solid technique and reaction speed not so much emphasis on  'pure physical' power (though without doubt it required some).
> 
> Also you don't have to look as far as postskip to compare, Zoro parraying Oars fist was more direct showing of 'pure physical force'. Again thats not to say Law couldnt do the same, but when it comes to physical strength alone he hasn't shown enough , the burden of proof is on him.



It traveled that far because of the power behind it. So, it was stronger than anything Zoro blocked , ever.Oz physical strength would not even hold a candle against the power of Over Heat type of attack.

Zoro have not shown any feat that would suggest that Zoro is a level above Law in physical strength. He could be but not until he shows he can


 @Torpedo



> Can you please post a scan of the over mentioned attack that people are basing law's physical strength on, which is somehow hyping law more than he really shouldn't be hyped to?


go read last few OP chapter and u will find it.




> Well, I am rather left in a state of aghast to witness that people don't view zoro as being physical stronger than Trafalgar law



and i am totally speechless after seeing u claiming that Zoro is *vastly* superior to Law when basically Zoro did nothing postTS .

most of the feat that u mentioned was not Zoro's physical strength , that was his swordsmanship skill. But, he did showed his true physical strength without his sword at W7 tho

*Spoiler*: __ 






NOT


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

Vengeance said:


> What, what's wrong with you lol



Where should I start?


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## Shinthia (Nov 9, 2013)

Vengeance said:


> What, what's wrong with you lol



i think What is allergic to bullshit


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## Vengeance (Nov 9, 2013)

What said:


> Where should I start?



Wherever you like to


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> It traveled that far because of the power behind it. So, it was stronger than anything Zoro blocked , ever.Oz physical strength would not even hold a candle against the power of Over Heat type of attack.
> 
> Zoro have not shown any feat that would suggest that Zoro is a level above Law in physical strength. He could be but not until he shows he can
> 
> ...



You don't need to resort to scrutinizing Zoro's post ts feats in order to overly quantify his strength and compare it to trafalgar law's strength. Just look at pre timeskip zoro's strength and that should speak volume for itself.

No, you're wrong here; it was zoro's strength that enabled him to push away the building that he carried on his back. Mind you, zoro was heavily injured and tired, but was still able to push the building in an effortless manner. 

Show me a scan of law doing anything remotely close to what zoro has done?


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## Shinthia (Nov 9, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> You don't need to resort to scrutinizing Zoro's post ts feats in order to overly quantify his strength and compare it to trafalgar law's strength. Just look at pre timeskip zoro's strength and that should speak volume for itself.
> 
> No, you're wrong here; it was zoro's strength that enabled him to push away the building that he carried on his back. Mind you, zoro was heavily injured and tired, but was still able to push the building in an effortless manner.
> 
> Show me a scan of law doing anything remotely close to what zoro has done?



Lol. push away a building is hardly a strength feat against OH block.  and that was at alabasta then there was W7  

how am i wrong ? Did u miss the part where i said "most of the feat ....." ?

Like i said earlier . Read OP and if u have eyes u will find what feat i am mentioning over and over again .


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 9, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Lol. push away a building is hardly a strength feat against OH block.  and that was at alabasta then there was W7
> 
> how am i wrong ? Did u miss the part where i said "most of the feat ....." ?
> 
> Like i said earlier . Read OP and if u have eyes u will find what feat i am mentioning over and over again .



Pushing away a building while you're injured an death is knocking on your door is a pretty effective feat, mind you. law hasn't done anything that relates to that kind of physical strength other than blocking a string that destroyed a building from afar. Moreover, he reduced its speed with his room, proving that he didn't indeed take the attack with his sword by stopping it.

I do read one piece. This comment is simply uncalled for. Fact still remains that law hasn't been doing much without his ROOM and it is the latter that allows him to be so effective in battle... cutting mountains would be nearly impossible for him to replicate in base form, let alone monet's snow wall.


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## Freechoice (Nov 9, 2013)

I find it funny how we all read the same manga, yet interpret and infer it so differently.


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## Sayonara (Nov 9, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> It traveled that far because of the power behind it. So, it was stronger than anything Zoro blocked , ever.Oz physical strength would not even hold a candle against the power of Over Heat type of attack.
> 
> Zoro have not shown any feat that would suggest that Zoro is a level above Law in physical strength. He could be but not until he shows he can



Even if you want to assume its got that much power behind it , that still does not change fact that Law did not block this attack with physical force alone, his stance and the obvious way the strings are wrapped around his sword prove that. The feat is more a demonstration of technique and reaction speed not so much physical force because he never took this attack head on. He took the sting out of the blow by slowing down its momentum with very efficient move, its not the same than blocking pure power with your sword alone.


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 9, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> No he was matching Smoker physically strike for strike, it was smoker DF, and maneuverability that allowed him to grip down Law, don't go making up stuff Slender.



He was struggling when he was blocking against Smoker. As he was making facial expressions that show effort. So he encased Law in smoke and brought him down? Smoker choke slammed him. Call it whatever you want but all that Smoker did was extend his arm. I'm not making stuff up this is in the manga.


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## Canute87 (Nov 9, 2013)

Law said:


> Whoa wait...
> 
> You think Smoker is physically stronger than Zoro? Just so I know what we're talking about here...if they were tasked with who could literally lift more weight, you'd side with Smoker over Zoro...not only that, but snidely laugh at those who'd have the nerve to try and say Zoro is stronger?
> 
> .



I think Zoro and Smoker are on similar levels in that regard.

Well let me ask you this.

If Smoker and Zoro were to clash head on the same way Smoker and law did do you believe Zoro would push back smoker with raw physical power?


----------



## Harard (Nov 9, 2013)

White Hawk said:


> Law extreme difficulty.
> 
> No one from the supernovas can beat Zoro high difficulty.Heck,he most probably is stronger than most of them.



What this guy said. No supernova is beating Zoro with mid or high difficulty. If Zoro is losing, then it's gonna be with extreme difficulty.

That being said, I have Law winning this as well...with extreme difficulty of course.


----------



## Lawliet (Nov 9, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> I think Zoro and Smoker are on similar levels in that regard.
> 
> Well let me ask you this.
> 
> If Smoker and Zoro were to clash head on the same way Smoker and law did do you believe Zoro would push back smoker with raw physical power?



An all going out Zoro? Probably yes, the dude was getting Oz unbalanced pre skip and was changing his kicks and punches directions using nothing but pure force.


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 9, 2013)

But Zoro was only offsetting the attacks. That's not a testament to physical superiority.

Besides when you think about an all out Zoro we are bringing in all those crazy ass techniques of his then it becomes more about skill sets.


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## Firo (Nov 9, 2013)

This thread....
Also, for all using hypothetical arguments to suit your cause. You should stop.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> Even if you want to assume its got that much power behind it , that still does not change fact that Law did not block this attack with physical force alone, his stance and the obvious way the strings are wrapped around his sword prove that. The feat is more a demonstration of technique and reaction speed not so much physical force because he never took this attack head on. He took the sting out of the blow by slowing down its momentum with very efficient move, its not the same than blocking pure power with your sword alone.



How did he wrap around that attack without actually stopping the attack itself head on ? DD's attack is a straight line attack and u have to stop the attack first (which he did in previous page) then wrap it around (next page).



> Pushing away a building while you're injured an death is knocking on your door is a pretty effective feat, mind you. law hasn't done anything that relates to that kind of physical strength other than blocking a string that destroyed a building from afar. Moreover,* he reduced its speed with his room*, proving that he didn't indeed take the attack with his sword by stopping it.



wtf ? what OP version do u read ? 

thats it i am done with u. U r making stuff up or u didn't read OP. Go read every OP chapter instead only Zoro's part then come back


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> How did he wrap around that attack without actually stopping the attack itself head on ? DD's attack is a straight line attack and u have to stop the attack first (which he did in previous page) then wrap it around (next page).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lionel messi, cristiano ronaldo is better than you, but this point proves why he is, you're simply not understanding the argument here 

He pushed a BUILDING while he fought mr.1, the drill guy.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

^off topic , off point . Not interested


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 10, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Zoro is simply too monstrous when it comes to fighting, he would literally make smoker blow smoker out of his arse after he would be done with him.


ok. lets agree to disagree.


> I implied that Law was beaten prior to him fully having the time to utilize his room in an attempt to slash his opponent.


 what?


> The sheer amount of time it takes Law to fully use his ROOM is ridiculous


so why has he never been interrupted while setting up his Room?



> You misread your own argument again. I responded to the prior argument which you made about how Law put room before he and smoker started to fight. I then argued your point by stating that smoker didn't charge and hadn't put enough pressure on Law, which he should have, in order to at least not allow him to use his haxxed ability, so i don't know how this argument of yours has any relevance to what we're discussing.


what? again, lets agree to disagree.


> I claimed that it is highly likely that Zoro would take advantage of Law thus speedblitzing him, if you went back to several arguments above, you'd know that I stated that the winner is dictated by whoever makes the first move;


no it wont. Law's not gonna be so overwhelmed by Zorro that he'd be unable to use his fruit. thats absurd. then again, you do think that Zorro would walk over Smoker, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


Harard said:


> No supernova is beating Zoro with mid or high difficulty. If Zoro is losing, then it's gonna be with extreme difficulty.


Even Kid?


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> ^off topic , off point . Not interested



CR7> Messi  Bale>Neymar  @Handsome Torpedo.  I'm glad that another person has seen the light. Do not trust in the Barcelona diving squad. Come at me bro :ignoramus


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> CR7> Messi  Bale>Neymar  @Handsome Torpedo.  I'm glad that another person has seen the light. Do not trust in the Barcelona diving squad. Come at me bro :ignoramus



yes u r r8 . CR7 > Messi 
*Spoiler*: __ 



in diving 
*Spoiler*: __


----------



## LyricalMessiah (Nov 10, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> ok. lets agree to disagree.
> what?
> so why has he never been interrupted while setting up his Room?
> 
> ...



Fully is the key word here. While law uses his room, it does't  make his ability, to slashing his opponent, automatically happen as in no charge time is needed for the slash to happen. He must use ROOM by which a whirl movement on his hand appears, it spreads, and ultimately, he needs to unsheathe his sword. All of which would allow his opponent to close the distance between he and Law, and confront him. He's been interrupted by vergo, and like I stated, Oda already showed us how impotent law is without his devil fruit while he didn't have enough time to use his ability against vergo. :aw has to set up ROOM: takes a second, during which zoro could close the distance by half probably. After that, depends on whether Law's ability is completely nullified by zoro not allowing him the time to use room and he'll continously keep on attacking law knowing that he's being an impediment to law from using the ability. A. From chapter 610, we saw him cut through a sizable amount of stuff, but that was an exertion and probably not something he could do on a whim. My money'd be on Zoro, just because we haven't seen Law use Armament Haki to boost his defenses and is therefore squishy. But just to not stem up confusion and hypocrisy, law would win if he got a clean shot on zoro, be it an arm, left or right..


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> I think Zoro and Smoker are on similar levels in that regard.
> 
> Well let me ask you this.
> 
> If Smoker and Zoro were to clash head on the same way Smoker and law did do you believe Zoro would push back smoker with raw physical power?



Uh..._absolutely_.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> *Whoa wait...You think Smoker is physically stronger than Zoro? Just so I know what we're talking about here...if they were tasked with who could literally lift more weight, you'd side with Smoker over Zoro...not only that*, but snidely laugh at those who'd have the nerve to try and say Zoro is stronger?



its not unlikely at all .unlike Zoro Smoker's main fighting style is hand to hand combat which require a lot of physical strength. I cant see Zoro winning at all in a swordless Zoro  vs a jutteless Smoker (no DF) fight. Zoro relay on his swordsmanship skill more than pure phy strength to beat his opponent.

yes, i would bet on Smoker every time.


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

I did not say Smoker couldn't defeat Zoro in an unarmed fight, I said Zoro was stronger physically than Smoker. Which he absolutely is. Call me when Smoker lifts a house/building off of him with one hand or is shown time and time again lifting absolutely impossible weights as a casual exercise.

I don't know if you people think strength is the only determining factor in a fight, but it's pretty much confirming you've never been in a fight, and/or your only exposure to combat is reading/watching anime.

If it comes down to overpowering one another in a grapple, Smoker's fucked. If it's a fist-fight, he'd probably win because Zoro has zero training. Smoker would win an unarmed fight because even though Zoro has haki and can tag him, he can still disperse when he sees a punch coming, and stay out of Zoro's grasp with his maneuverability.

If all you can think of is DBZ style of fighting where the two combatants stand there facing one another and push into each other to see who's stronger - then yeah, Smoker is absolutely getting his shit pounded in. But he's not going to do that because he's a better-trained hand-to-hand combatant. Arm-strength does not equal punching power/skill. You still have to know how to throw a punch and move and anticipate, etc. You'd see Zoro throwing hay-makers left and right, while Smoker dodged and landed 3-4 hits before moving again.

There aren't too many situations where Zoro would lose to Smoker- but that's definitely one of them.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> I did not say Smoker couldn't defeat Zoro in an unarmed fight, I said Zoro was stronger physically than Smoker. Which he absolutely is. Call me when Smoker lifts a house/building off of him with one hand or is shown time and time again lifting absolutely impossible weights as a casual exercise.


Ok. So, in order for someone to be physically stronger than Zoro he/she have to lift an almighty building or something , am i r8 ? Yes,that make sense. 

and Alabasta Zoro > PH Smoker in physical strength confirmed because he did not lift a building


----------



## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Ok. So, in order for someone to be physically stronger than Zoro he/she have to lift an almighty building or something , am i r8 ? Yes,that make sense.
> 
> and Alabasta Zoro > PH Smoker in physical strength confirmed because he did not lift a building



Show me any indication, _whatsoever_, that Smoker comes close to matching Zoro in pure, physical strength, and your argument will hold any merit whatsoever.

A Zoro from years ago, who was weak compared to what he is now could lift a building with one hand. I haven't seen anything to suggest Smoker is even that strong, though we just assume he is because "lol no one post-skip could possibly be weaker physically than someone from pre-skip"?

Feats or fuck off.

"Smoker is strong cuz I like him and I want him to be!" - is not a valid argument. Show me anything that suggests he has physical strength coming close to Zoro's or concede the point.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> Show me any indication, _whatsoever_, that Smoker comes close to matching Zoro in pure, physical strength, and your argument will hold any merit whatsoever.



Smoker is a hand to hand fighter thats enough indication that he has a high base physical strength.
Unless Smoker is a fodder to Zoro ,Smoker's physical strength will at least match Zoro cause thats all he got. Its common sense.




> Feats or fuck off.


oh u go only by feats and abandon common sense i see. Ok then. I will show u that Zoro became physically weaker over time from Alabasta to W7 by feats 

Alabasta Zoro


W7 Zoro


so using this only feat or fuck off logic of urs. over TS Zoro become much much weaker physically then he was b4. Admit this ridiculous logic to be true  and i will fuck off with my Smoker argument.


----------



## Extravlad (Nov 10, 2013)

Zoro wins without a doubt.

Luffy = Zoro > Law > Vergo >= Smoker > Sanji.


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Smoker is a hand to hand fighter thats enough indication that he has a high base physical strength.
> Unless Smoker is a fodder to Zoro ,Smoker's physical strength will at least match Zoro cause thats all he got. Its common sense.
> 
> 
> ...



By feats *and* by common sense, Zoro is _physically stronger_ than Smoker.

I never said Smoker didn't have a high amount of physical strength. You just don't seem to understand or grasp just how ridiculously impressive Zoro's feats of pure, physical strength in this manga have been.

Smoker only has physical strength to rely on? Really? Again, you need to understand what a fight is, because it doesn't usually come down to who is physically stronger. Not everyone at a high level must be physically strong to compete. Their skill, their abilities, etc. don't have to rely on raw power to be lethal or effective.


Your two links were both pre-skip. A person's power is incredibly dwarfed when they can't move their arms or body to use their range of motion. It's why a person can lift a couple hundred pounds using their arms, shoulders and back, but bind them with rope and they can't move even though the rope itself could not withstand 200 pounds of pressure. It's not nearly as inconsistent as you think it is.

Again, show me any indication that Smoker is as physically strong as Zoro, or concede that you're just guessing because you want him to be.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> Smoker only has physical strength to rely on? Really? Again, you need to understand what a fight is, because it doesn't usually come down to who is physically stronger. Not everyone at a high level must be physically strong to compete. Their skill, their abilities, etc. don't have to rely on raw power to be lethal or effective.



So, in a fight what stopping Smoker from getting one shooted by Zoro ? Cause Zoro's exceptional sword skill (his real strength) and his so called vastly superior physical strength will be enough to one shoot a physically weak Smoker if Zoro can tag him.



> Your two links were both pre-skip. A person's power is incredibly dwarfed when they can't move their arms or body to use their range of motion. It's why a person can lift a couple hundred pounds using their arms, shoulders and back, but bind them with rope and they can't move even though the rope itself could not withstand 200 pounds of pressure. It's not nearly as inconsistent as you think it is.



sounds like a cheap excuse to me cause Luffy was in a same situation and that was not a problem to him at all


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## Canute87 (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> Uh..._absolutely_.



So because you see Zoro lifting a house and not Smoker Zoro is stronger by feats?

But then you don't believe that Zoro is physical stronger than most top tiers them being featless and all , I'm sure you wouldn't use a "feats" argument at this point would you?

So why then does Smoker get the boot when it's obvious they are on similar levels?  Smoker is a physical fighter who's effectiveness is completely dependent on his physical power.  Don't need feats to determine that certain aspects of fighting demand certain attributes.


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> sounds like a cheap excuse to me cause Luffy was in a same situation and that was not a problem to him at all



Nah I'll side with law on Zoro.  The way how he was in that thing he could barely do anything.  Luffy at the very least was able to position himself properly.


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## Halcyon (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel, you're completely ignoring the fact that Smoker is far more maneuverable than Zoro. I don't know if it's intentional, but that's a huge part of Smoker's fighting style.

I honestly don't know where people come up with Law being around Zoro in physical strength. It makes absolutely no sense, other than just wanking. Zoro has to be able to swing his swords so hard that the air around it becomes an attack powerful enough to incapacitate his foes. I can see Smoker being of similar strength, maybe not extremely close, but still up there. Law, though... I can't think of anything that actually made him appear physically strong. He's a DF fighter and his DF doesn't seem to require great physical prowess.


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## Mihawk (Nov 10, 2013)

It's the fact that Zoro has been portrayed by Oda as a beast in terms of physical strength, like those feats before the time skip, and his unorthodox and over the top weight lifting exercises, as well as his crazy durability. 

Before the time skip, Smoker had no such portrayal, and was not emphasized in such a way. 

It is that portrayal which should make it common sense that Zoro is likely physically stronger than Smoker after the time skip as well. 

Also, Zoro does not rely on devil fruit powers, while Smoker does. 

It is obvious that physical strength is very much a part of swordsmanship, when you see Zoro swinging an overwhelmingly heavy barbell over a thousand times as part of his daily training. 

Smoker was never reflected in such a way before the time skip. He was always portrayed as a devil fruit user first and foremost, who also used his logia to extend the effectiveness and range of his punches.

In terms of physical strength, Zoro is definitely stronger.


----------



## Sayonara (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> How did he wrap around that attack without actually stopping the attack itself head on ? DD's attack is a straight line attack and u have to stop the attack first (which he did in previous page) then wrap it around (next page).



By attacking the string from the side rather than try block from the front, he broke the momentum of the string and caught it in a wrap. 

Even by commonsense you cant actually believe that *both *Doflas attack is that powerful and that Law is so physically strong he blocked it without moving an inch.


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 10, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> It's the fact that Zoro has been portrayed by Oda as a beast in terms of physical strength, like those feats before the time skip, and his unorthodox and over the top weight lifting exercises, as well as his crazy durability.
> 
> Before the time skip, Smoker had no such portrayal, and was not emphasized in such a way.
> 
> ...



Smoker's DF doesn't provide him that much of a gain in strength in fact it's almost completely dedicated to his flexibility in fighting than his own physical power.  And flexibility doesn't really mean shit if you don't have that physical power to back you up.  You've rarely seen any interactions with Smoker other than him knocking some bitches up just because you see Zoro constantly training (which he doesn't during actual fights) doesn't mean Smoker doesn't on days he's not owning bitches. 

Have you seen that body?  That didn't come from DF usage.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> Nah I'll side with law on Zoro.  The way how he was in that thing he could barely do anything.  Luffy at the very least was able to position himself properly.



but, Luffy was stuck between 2 huge building while Zoro was in a chimney. Luffy had to destroy 2 building at the same time & u would expect Zoro to do something to that chimney (even in that situation) which should be easy compared to what Luffy did. Then again i was using this to counter his "feats or fuck off" argument so meh. .


@Halcyon


> Lionel, you're completely ignoring the fact *that Smoker is far more maneuverable than Zoro.* I don't know if it's intentional, but that's a huge part of Smoker's fighting style.


how ? Smoker may (or may not) have better reflex than Zoro but how is he  _far more maneuverable than Zoro_ ? There is nothing suggest that Zoro cant keep up with Smoker's movement skill, thats sounds ridiculous to me actually.
people using word "far more" way too much in this thread. Zoro is physically far more stronger than Smoker & now Smoker is far more maneuverable than Zoro. How do u guys come up with this conclusion when Zoro did not do anything after TS ? 


> I can't think of anything that actually made him appear physically strong. He's a DF fighter and his DF doesn't seem to require great physical prowess.


Over Heat block feat was enough for me. Just because he does not need to be physical strength to win does not mean he cant be physically strong.



@Sayonara


> Even by commonsense you cant actually believe that both Doflas attack is that powerful and that Law is so physically strong he blocked it without moving an inch.


why cant i ? Is it written anywhere that a hex DF user cant be monster in physical strength ?


----------



## Mihawk (Nov 10, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> Smoker's DF doesn't provide him that much of a gain in strength in fact it's almost completely dedicated to his flexibility in fighting than his own physical power.  And flexibility doesn't really mean shit if you don't have that physical power to back you up.  You've rarely seen any interactions with Smoker other than him knocking some bitches up just because you see Zoro constantly training (which he doesn't during actual fights) doesn't mean Smoker doesn't on days he's not owning bitches.
> 
> Have you seen that body?  That didn't come from DF usage.



We can't just ignore that point with Zoro though.

The point is that Oda has consistently shown Zoro in such a way that is supposed to let us know that Zoro is a pure physical beast. Smoker is one too, but he also has his devil fruit, which in addition to his strength, puts him at around Zoro's overall level. 

Just because we can assume that Smoker does training in his own time, doesn't mean that we can assume he is physically stronger than Zoro, whom we have seen train, and showcased his physical strength, by Oda. Oda has concentrated emphasis on Zoro's physical strength, but not with Smoker, even if we can assume he is a physical monster, which I am sure he is. The question is not whether or not Smoker is a physical beast, but if he is more physically powerful than Zoro or not.

I don't think the gap in physical power is significant at all, but I'd give it to Zoro 10/10 times, IMO.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 10, 2013)

Of course Smoker is more maneuverable then Zoro  that's honestly the main thing his lame devil fruit gives him. He can disperse his body and reappear wherever he so chooses.


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Of course Smoker is more maneuverable then Zoro  that's honestly the main thing his lame devil fruit gives him. He can disperse his body and reappear wherever he so chooses.



u mean like teleportation ? I thought his strategy is to just split himself like any other Logia user and appear behind them with movement speed (in a form of smoke) while his opponent is focused with his other part.


----------



## Extravlad (Nov 10, 2013)

Stop talking Zoro is stronger than everyone of his generation EXCEPT Luffy who is equal to him.

There's no characters stronger than Zoro in the current generation except if you consider Blackbeard as a super rookie.


----------



## Harard (Nov 10, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Even Kid?



Why should Kid be any different? As far as I know, Kid, Law, and Luffy are in the same general level.


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 10, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> Fully is the key word here. While law uses his room, it does't  make his ability, to slashing his opponent, automatically happen as in no charge time is needed for the slash to happen. He must use ROOM by which a whirl movement on his hand appears, it spreads, and ultimately, he needs to unsheathe his sword. All of which would allow his opponent to close the distance between he and Law, and confront him. He's been interrupted by vergo, and like I stated, Oda already showed us how impotent law is without his devil fruit while he didn't have enough time to use his ability against vergo. :aw has to set up ROOM: takes a second, during which zoro could close the distance by half probably. After that, depends on whether Law's ability is completely nullified by zoro not allowing him the time to use room and he'll continously keep on attacking law knowing that he's being an impediment to law from using the ability. A. From chapter 610, we saw him cut through a sizable amount of stuff, but that was an exertion and probably not something he could do on a whim. My money'd be on Zoro, just because we haven't seen Law use Armament Haki to boost his defenses and is therefore squishy. But just to not stem up confusion and hypocrisy, law would win if he got a clean shot on zoro, be it an arm, left or right..


i'm not sure if you're slow or just trolling. I post scans of Law using Room against Vergo, you continue to say that he couldnt set it up. You claim that Room is slow and Law can be interrupted, but no one has ever done so in the manga. the argument is getting ridiculous, so lets just agree to disagree on the entire thing.


----------



## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 10, 2013)

Harard said:


> Why should Kid be any different? As far as I know, Kid, Law, and Luffy are in the same general level.


magnetism vs swords?


----------



## Canute87 (Nov 10, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> We can't just ignore that point with Zoro though.



You're right but still you have to take into consideration the panel time between Zoro and Smoker.  It's like when people think luffy is the absolute strongest supernova when there were 2 others who went through difficult journey's like him but weren't even mentioned until SA.



> The point is that Oda has consistently shown Zoro in such a way that is supposed to let us know that Zoro is a pure physical beast. Smoker is one too, but he also has his devil fruit, which in addition to his strength, puts him at around Zoro's overall level.


But in addition to that Oda has also emphasizes Zoro's amazing skill having a tool that's directly related to one's physical attributes  doesn't eat at one's own physical growth.  Just like how Zoro's swordsmanship doesn't affect his physical gains ( It's not like just getting stronger automatically equals stronger techniques ), Smoker's won't affect his because he isn't spending considerably time with it remember smoker has had this DF for a very long time and his DF doesn't have a lot to it compared to guys like Kiji and Akainu.



> Just because we can assume that Smoker does training in his own time, doesn't mean that we can assume he is physically stronger than Zoro, whom we have seen train, and showcased his physical strength, by Oda. Oda has concentrated emphasis on Zoro's physical strength, but not with Smoker, even if we can assume he is a physical monster, which I am sure he is. The question is not whether or not Smoker is a physical beast, but if he is more physically powerful than Zoro or not.


For the purpose of this discussion and generally overall I don't think Smoker is physically stronger than Zoro,  I think there are in the same ball park. What I don't see Smoker have over Zoro is damage potential which is a very accurate deduction to make because in his fights he hasn't shown that level of destructive force in his fights. It's only in that sense I'll use a feats argument but people using Zoro constantly training as "evidence" isn't good enough....well for me at least.



> I don't think the gap in physical power is significant at all, but I'd give it to Zoro 10/10 times, IMO.



Well nothing I can do to change that.


----------



## Sayonara (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> @Sayonara
> 
> why cant i ? Is it written anywhere that a hex DF user cant be monster in physical strength ?




No theres nothing wrong with that. If you want to look at it that way though than you maybe undervaluing the feat and don't consider the consequences. If he can stop an attack thats you describe as so powerful it travelled to dressrosa, can we assume he can just casually block G3 attack with just sword and physical force without moving an inch? You might just want to say yes, but I say no commonsense. He may be able to block it but hes still going to be pushed back from the force. Law blocking doflas over heat like that , doesn't just say he can defend against it but that he was outright superior in physical strength to it.


----------



## Halcyon (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> how ? Smoker may (or may not) have better reflex than Zoro but how is he  _far more maneuverable than Zoro_ ? There is nothing suggest that Zoro cant keep up with Smoker's movement skill, thats sounds ridiculous to me actually.
> people using word "far more" way too much in this thread. Zoro is physically far more stronger than Smoker & now Smoker is far more maneuverable than Zoro. How do u guys come up with this conclusion when Zoro did not do anything after TS ?


I sincerely doubt Smoker's reflexes are better than Zoro's, but he definitely is more maneuverable. That's what his fruit does; it makes him extremely maneuverable. Speed is another matter entirely.



> Over Heat block feat was enough for me. Just because he does not need to be physical strength to win does not mean he cant be physically strong.


But... he didn't block it. Not in a traditional sense. He didn't block it like, say, Zoro would, for the sake of argument. He came at it from the side and reduced its momentum rather than taking the brunt of the attack with his sword.

It's not downplaying Law to think he isn't physically a beast. Zoro is because he doesn't have a DF, and still competes with those who do regularly. He'll probably be the strongest character alive without a DF at the end of the series, both physically and overall. Law doesn't need a ton of physical strength, and we have no reason to assume he does have it.


----------



## Halcyon (Nov 10, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> magnetism vs swords?



It's quite possible that he could coat his swords in CoA and counteract the force of the DF. Once haki is explained more, we may have a definitive answer. Zoro didn't even flinch when Kidd used his power on Sabody, so who knows.


----------



## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 10, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Stop talking Zoro is stronger than everyone of his generation EXCEPT Luffy who is equal to him.
> 
> There's no characters stronger than Zoro in the current generation except if you consider Blackbeard as a super rookie.



That was pre time skip.
Post time skip Zoro is the strongest of his generation.

Pre skip: Luffy = Zoro >>>>>>> everyone
Post time skip: Zoro>Luffy>>>>>>>everyone


----------



## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> No theres nothing wrong with that. If you want to look at it that way though than you maybe undervaluing the feat and don't consider the consequences. If he can stop an attack thats you describe as so powerful it travelled to dressrosa, can we assume he can just casually block G3 attack with just sword and physical force without moving an inch? You might just want to say yes, but I say no commonsense. He may be able to block it but hes still going to be pushed back from the force. Law blocking doflas over heat like that , doesn't just say he can defend against it but that he was outright superior in physical strength to it.



Some fishman fodder who was one shooted by Zoro (after eating ES) blocked g2 without any problem. So, i wount rule our the possibility of Law blocking a regular casual G3 punch easily. Yes, i do think that panel was to show that even after having a hex DF Law is strong enough to block a casual attack of DD easily.
U may feel like i am overrating the feats but i honestly think Oda showed Law blocked that Over Heat (specially r8 after showing how powerful it is) without using DF power TACT to change its direction is because he wanted to show us Law's phy strength.







> I sincerely doubt Smoker's reflexes are better than Zoro's, but he definitely is more maneuverable. That's what his fruit does; it makes him extremely maneuverable. Speed is another matter entirely.


assuming Smoker has weaker phy strength ,

Smoker's maneuver wount help him against Zoro at all cause only way he can hurt Zoro is by physical strength .Thats his main strength.and he wount find a blind spot of Zoro easily as he has better reflex (may be). They r bound to clash head to head and when they do Smoker wount be even able to block Zoro's normal named attack. 

Smoker's weak phy strength vs Zoro's superior phy strength + godly swordsmanship move (ex: Shi SHi son son). 

result : Smoker one shooted



> It's not downplaying Law to think he isn't physically a beast. Zoro is because he doesn't have a DF, and still competes with those who do regularly. He'll probably be the strongest character alive without a DF at the end of the series, both physically and overall. Law doesn't need a ton of physical strength, and we have no reason to assume he does have it.



Zoro does not have a DF but he uses not 1 not 2 but 3 sword and his skill with all those 3 sword will vastly vastly outclass Law.


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## Slenderman (Nov 10, 2013)

The reson for why I believe Zoro is stronger then Law is that Zoro uses the power of destruction. For those of you that don't know the power of destruction it's a technique that swordsmen use. It's the ability to carry your slashes through the air with strong muscles. Zoro started to use it more frequently when he first got it on Skypeia. The amount of raw muscles used for it is impressive. That was 36 pound canon. Now Zoro can do 360 pound canon. Smoker most certainly is strong but I don't think that he's as strong as Zoro in strength. POD (power of destruction) like I said before takes a lot of physical strength. By no means is Law a slouch in that area but I don't see him making slashes fly. In raw swordsmanship Zoro is better then Law as Law's swordsmanship is heavily reliant on his Ope Ope no mi. Also if you want to know more about POD reading or watching Thriller Bark will help a lot.


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## Halcyon (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> assuming Smoker has weaker phy strength ,
> 
> Smoker's maneuver wount help him against Zoro at all cause only way he can hurt Zoro is by physical strength .Thats his main strength.and he wount find a blind spot of Zoro easily as he has better reflex (may be). They r bound to clash head to head and when they do Smoker wount be even able to block Zoro's normal named attack.


Not true, do you remember how Smoker beat Luffy in Loguetown? Proper utilization of his fruit can make up for what he lacks in physical strength when compared to Zoro. Personally, I think Zoro could beat Smoker, but it won't be an easy fight.



> Smoker's weak phy strength vs Zoro's superior phy strength + godly swordsmanship move (ex: Shi SHi son son).


Smoker isn't weak; not being stronger than or extremely close to Zoro in strength doesn't make him weak.



> result : Smoker one shooted


I never said he would get one shotted. Smoker doesn't rely solely on his physical strength, as I said. His logia abilities to make up a large portion of his fighting style.



> Zoro does not have a DF but he uses not 1 not 2 but 3 sword and his skill with all those 3 sword will vastly vastly outclass Law.


This is true. Zoro's swordsmanship, from what we've seen, overshadows Law's in every respect. However, Law isn't the same type of swordsman as Zoro. He uses the sword as a tool for his DF, not the focus of all of his power.


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## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> Not true, do you remember how Smoker beat Luffy in Loguetown? Proper utilization of his fruit can make up for what he lacks in physical strength when compared to Zoro. Personally, I think Zoro could beat Smoker, but it won't be an easy fight.



Luffy did not had haki. That was the main reason.



> Smoker isn't weak; not being stronger than or extremely close to Zoro in strength doesn't make him weak.


If i compare both of them then yes.



> I never said he would get one shotted. Smoker doesn't rely solely on his physical strength, as I said. His logia abilities to make up a large portion of his fighting style.


his DF is the worst of the all logia DF. It has no mentionable offensive power .Smoker have to rely on his physical strength to beat his opponent. His DF cant damage anyone.



> This is true. Zoro's swordsmanship, from what we've seen, overshadows Law's in every respect. However, Law isn't the same type of swordsman as Zoro. He uses the sword as a tool for his DF, not the focus of all of his power.



Law has the huge advantage in Df department and Zoro is outclassing Law in swordsmanship department. That evens thing up
If u r talking restricted character then it will be Sanji without any contest. He does not have a DF , does not use any sword and even dont use his hand in a combat yet still keeping up with monsters like Luffy & Zoro.He should be the most impressive of all the character in OP.


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## Halcyon (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Luffy did not had haki. That was the main reason.


True, but it was just an example of how Smoker can use his DF. He's not useless, and Smoker doesn't rely solely on physical strength, as I said.




> If i compare both of them then yes.


What? So if I'm stronger than you because I can lift ten more pounds, you're weak?




> his DF is the worst of the all logia DF. It has no mentionable offensive power .Smoker have to rely on his physical strength to beat his opponent. His DF cant damage anyone.


From what we've seen. Smoker doesn't solely rely on physical strength, as I've said. He has an advantage in maneuverability, plus the fact that he's a logia and can disperse.




> Law has the huge advantage in Df department and Zoro is outclassing Law in swordsmanship department. That evens thing up


Indeed it does. Though not exactly even, considering his fruit does the majority of the work for him, but I see your point.


> If u r talking restricted character then it will be Sanji without any contest. He does not have a DF , does not use any sword and even dont use his hand in a combat yet still keeping up with monsters like Luffy & Zoro.He should be the most impressive of all the character in OP.


Well, you're disregarding Garp, but I see your point. I don't deny he is impressive, however I was speaking in terms of swordsmanship in relation to Law and Zoro.


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## Sayonara (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Some fishman fodder who was one shooted by Zoro (after eating ES) blocked g2 without any problem. So, i wount rule our the possibility of Law blocking a regular casual G3 punch easily. Yes, i do think that panel was to show that even after having a hex DF Law is strong enough to block a casual attack of DD easily.
> U may feel like i am overrating the feats but i honestly think Oda showed Law blocked that Over Heat (specially r8 after showing how powerful it is) without using DF power TACT to change its direction is because he wanted to show us Law's phy strength.



Thats exactly why I said you cant have both before, that is accept Doflas over heat as super powerful move and accept Law blocked it was ease. By referring to over heat as casual attack and comparing its power to casual G3 punch you seem to recognize that. 

We totally dont agree on how he stopped it, while you think its brute force, I think it was clearly technique and reaction speed . While you think Oda wanted to show Laws physical strength I think it was more he wanted to show that Law was competent without his DF and that he does have some swordsmanship skill. It would have been so easy and more simple for Oda to show him block with brute strength alone , but the stance and the way string wrapped seemed pretty clear to me.

Again even if I follow your opinion on this one and assume it was brute force Law used, the feat while still impressive is not as impressive as you initially made out since brute power in Doflas attack been reduced. Zoro via Oars showed he was capable of deflecting G3 level attacks preskip, postskip its normal to assume he could now do same with postskip g3 level attacks.


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## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Halcyon said:


> True, but it was just an example of how Smoker can use his DF. He's not useless, and Smoker doesn't rely solely on physical strength, as I said.
> 
> From what we've seen. Smoker doesn't solely rely on physical strength, as I've said. He has an advantage in maneuverability, plus the fact that he's a logia and can disperse.



His DF cant hurt his opponent ,his advantage in maneuverability is useless if Zoro can react to it. Sooner or later they will clash head on and against Zoro's superior PS + sword attack he cant even hold a candle (if his PS is not stronger or equal)




> What? So if I'm stronger than you because I can lift ten more pounds, you're weak?




by comparison , yes. EL Luffy is way stronger compared to Bluno but at the same time if u compare him to Kizaru then he is super weak.



> Indeed it does. Though not exactly even, considering his fruit does the majority of the work for him, but I see your point.



thats why its hex. 



> Well, you're disregarding Garp, but I see your point. I don't deny he is impressive, however I was speaking in terms of swordsmanship in relation to Law and Zoro.



Garp uses his hand but Sanji wount even use that. Dat Sanji 
 On top of that he does not hit women, like he did not had enough restriction already


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## Shinthia (Nov 10, 2013)

Sayonara said:


> Again even if I follow your opinion on this one and assume it was brute force Law used,* the feat while still impressive is not as impressive as you initially made out since brute power in Doflas attack been reduced*. Zoro via Oars showed he was capable of deflecting G3 level attacks preskip, postskip its normal to assume he could now do same with postskip g3 level attacks.



Even if i agree with u the feat itself is enough to show that he was not overpowered by that attack of DD and to me its enough to say that Law is not going to be outclassed by Zoro in PS considering Zoro did nothing after TS.

Zoro's feat against OZ was done by Sanji too and imo was even better than Zoro as Sanji deflected a bazooka . But, we saw that Sanji's kick was blocked by DD easily.

Dont get me wrong i never said Law is superior to Zoro (he could be tho ) in PS but i am saying Law is not far behind as everyone seems to think thats all.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 10, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> i'm not sure if you're slow or just trolling. I post scans of Law using Room against Vergo, you continue to say that he couldnt set it up. You claim that Room is slow and Law can be interrupted, but no one has ever done so in the manga. the argument is getting ridiculous, so lets just agree to disagree on the entire thing.



There is no trolling here, and I don't believe why you would take your time to write if I were somehow trolling for not understanding what you mean, be it how you worded out, but, deductively assuming, you've misread a ton of my post mind you and I had to literally explain myself a dozens of time for you to finally comprehend on what I meant. I don't blame you, it is normal on these outskirts. Okay, Law used room, I never stated that he never set it out, however, I did claim that he didn't have enough TIME to contemplate on using his ability fully, taking his sword out of his sheath, slashing, since vergo imminently closed the distance way before law could use his ability.. He did set up ROOM, but that does not guarantee him on not getting speed blizted.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 10, 2013)

Harard said:


> Why should Kid be any different? As far as I know, Kid, Law, and Luffy are in the same general level.



It's sort of like Magneto vs Wolverine.


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## Sayonara (Nov 10, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> Even if i agree with u the feat itself is enough to show that he was not overpowered by that attack of DD and to me its enough to say that Law is not going to be outclassed by Zoro in PS considering Zoro did nothing after TS.
> 
> Zoro's feat against OZ was done by Sanji too and imo was even better than Zoro as Sanji deflected a bazooka . But, we saw that Sanji's kick was blocked by DD easily.
> 
> Dont get me wrong i never said Law is superior to Zoro (he could be tho ) in PS but i am saying Law is not far behind as everyone seems to think thats all.



If Law tried to attack dofla physically I expect similar outcome to Sanji. And yea Sanjis feat was better than Zoros, in general the m3 are all very physical fighters so its insult to them if Law was physically on par with them (speed not included) when all the only method of attack available to them is physical output. No one should assume Laws far behind anyway he proved his worth against smoker and vergo.


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Legs are stronger than arms, so it's not really an affront to Zoro if Sanji can duplicate a strength feat with his legs.

It says more about Zoro that his arm-strength is equal to the leg-strength of a man who _only_ trains his legs as a purely physical fighter, so he can forever protect his cooking hands.

If a punch from Zoro could defeat a kick from Sanji - I'd laugh and think Oda had finally decided to leave Sanji behind.

And yeah, if Law ignored his DF hax and tried to go toe-to-toe with Doffy with pure power...he'd get smacked around far worse than Sanji did. Why do people think it's a negative thing for someone to have developed so much power through use of a Devil's Fruit? It's a path to power not unlike any other. It needs to be trained and developed and understood just like any other fighting method. Law uses his "operation" DF very well, it's not as if he was high-tier the moment he ate it.

Whitebeard was a physical monster, a haki monster, _and_ a DF monster - that kind of perfect combination won't come around very often. Even his haki may not have been as powerful as his other two advantages, since Aokiji never sustained damage while fighting him.

Not everyone will excel in all aspects of combat, and expecting them to is being unrealistic and setting impossible expectations on good, strong characters that can not live up to them. Law is not a physical monster...stop placing impossible expectations on him, especially unnecessary ones. The man can cut and lift battleships and small mountains with his DF...you want him to take time away from training *that* to become stronger physically? Fuck outta here.


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## Teach (Nov 10, 2013)

Law has far better feats than Zoro post-skip. The hype is also around equal currently, so Law wins.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Speedy Jag. (Nov 10, 2013)

Teach said:


> Law has far better feats than Zoro post-skip. The hype is also around equal currently, so Law wins.



But ask yourself this, has Zoro even been tested Post-Skip?

What's to say he can't just equal Law when he's allowed by Oda to go all out?

Or even surpass him?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Speedy Jag. said:


> But ask yourself this, has Zoro even been tested Post-Skip?
> 
> What's to say he can't just equal Law when he's allowed by Oda to go all out?
> 
> Or even surpass him?



When that happens, the thread can be revisited. You're not actually suggesting we post a victor based on "what he might have later"?

Going by feats only, rather than what the character may or may not be holding back - Law is stronger currently than Luffy, let alone Zoro. When something changes, these threads will look different, but not until then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shizune (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> Law is stronger currently than Luffy



How do you figure?


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## Mike S (Nov 10, 2013)

Law said:


> It says more about Zoro that his arm-strength is equal to the leg-strength of a man who _only_ trains his legs as a purely physical fighter, so he can forever protect his cooking hands.



Lets not get carried away. Zoro's arm strength isn't equal to Sanji's leg strength.



Speedy Jag. said:


> But ask yourself this, has Zoro even been tested Post-Skip?
> 
> What's to say he can't just equal Law when he's allowed by Oda to go all out?
> 
> Or even surpass him?



That doesn't change the fact that right now, Law's hax is too much for Zoro. Law wins until Zoro proves he's worthy of the victory.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tiger (Nov 10, 2013)

Nitty Scott said:


> How do you figure?



I think Law would beat Luffy from what Luffy has currently shown, feats-wise.

High-diff, the same difficulty he beats Zoro at.

I think Law attained greater power quicker than Luffy did, and now in the next couple arcs Luffy will jettison higher gaining power at a faster rate than Law, surpassing him and keeping it that way. But currently, I don't see it.

So the idea of Zoro beating Law in this thread is strange. My original post said "I also think Law defeats Luffy, so take from that what you will." Do I have to explain myself further?

If you look at my posts this past week about Law, you'd have a hard time claiming I'm a wanker.


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## batman22wins (Nov 10, 2013)

Why are people acting like Zoro can't block Law slash? Smoker was blocking his slash and fighting toe to toe. Tagashi got ripped through because her Haki was weak. I doubt he cuts Zoro.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Nov 11, 2013)

HandsomeTorpedo said:


> you've misread a ton of my post mind you and I had to literally explain myself a dozens of time for you to finally comprehend on what I meant.


nah, we just interpret the manga differently.


> I don't blame you, it is normal on these outskirts. Okay, Law used room, I never stated that he never set it out, however, I did claim that he didn't have enough TIME to contemplate on using his ability fully, taking his sword out of his sheath, slashing, since vergo imminently closed the distance way better law could use his ability.. He did set up ROOM, but that does not guarantee him on not getting speed blizted.


he wasnt blitzed, he was distracted. we saw what happened when hew was actually focused on defeating Vergo.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 11, 2013)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> nah, we just interpret the manga differently.
> 
> he wasnt blitzed, he was distracted. we saw what happened when hew was actually focused on defeating Vergo.



Maybe it may well be the case, but it being the case does not necessarily mean that the way we view the manga is based on one of us reading it reversed.

He was blitzed since he didn't have enough time TO FULLY use his ability, that's all there is to it, I don't know why it took you 5 page to understand this simple argument... Actually, you cannot arbitrary use the vergo's defeat as an argument to back up your case about how he could have the potential to continuously do the same, as, with his second encounter with vergo, Oda wasn't going to let him get another beat up, he was proving that the new generation had evolved whilst the elder one were being ignorant over the course of the years... I can use the same logic aginst you; Why didn't Law use his ability prior to vergo closing the distance? he could have very well slashed him before being beat down by vergo...


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## Shanks (Nov 11, 2013)

Law is quite impressive and achieve lots of unexpected feats in this arch to say the least, but Oda is still holding Zoro back for a reason.

We all know that Zoro will at the very least defeat one of the DD's top gun in this arch, so the main question is, is Law able to accomplish the same feat by arch end?

I personally believe that Oda will give both similar feats and portray them to be pretty much equal.


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## zorokuma (Nov 11, 2013)

how can zoro lose? he has bigger muscles.



seriously though, if smoker can block law's sword, we should be able to assume that zoro can as well.  hence law is not just gonna cut through zoro's swords.

In a straight up sword fight, zoro would take it easily, but law is a tricky guy. even if he cant cut zoro with his df, there are many ways he can make the fight extremely difficult for him.  What will give zoro the edge though, is his amazing reaction speed and attack speed.  If law does not win the fight early on, zoro will grow more accustom to his tactics and sooner or later get to him.  I wont deny that law has a very good chance of beating him, but my money is on zoro high to extreme difficulty.


Plus he is my favourite character so he should beat anyone


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