# Goku & Vegeta vs. Silver Surfer



## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

- Each fighter can use their fullest potential.
- If needed, if wanted, and if they have enough time, they can use do the Fusion Dance
- The fight is within the Earth's atmosphere
- who wins?


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## Gunners (Aug 16, 2006)

Isn't surfer one step below like a god of some sort, i don't really know much on surfer still, but i am inclined to give it to him over things i have seen. Gogeta might be able to do something, but then he would get outlasted.


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## Envy (Aug 16, 2006)

I'm leaning towards surfer. but I dunno..


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## Vicious (Aug 16, 2006)

i thought he had Immortality, but i dont know, heres some info on him at wiki


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## chubby (Aug 16, 2006)

i think that a spirit bomb would do a quite the number on the Silver Surfer....although i don't know much about Surfer, so he may be stronger


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 16, 2006)

chubby said:
			
		

> i think that a spirit bomb would do a quite the number on the Silver Surfer....although i don't know much about Surfer, so he may be stronger



Surfer is about as a good guy as Goku is.
It'll only give him a nice warm up

Silver Surfer easily takes this.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Spirit bomb would do nothing to him, he's pure of heart.

Any chance of anything resembling a fair match was over when the OP specified they would all be fighting to their fullest potential. That means Surfer will blitz them at millions of times lightspeed and transmute every other atom in their bodies into antimatter.


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## Falco-san (Aug 16, 2006)

Can someone fill me in on the powers of the silver surfer?

All I can remember from him is being a Emo lackey of Galactus(Spelling?)

EDIT:

>.>
<.<

nevermind this, I just saw 4thhokage's post

*reading wiki site*

EDITEDIT: Yep, surfer takes this, lightspeed travel, resistant to most physical attacks, and I bet that Kamehameha wouldnt hurt him AND the spirit bonb does not work on the pure hearthed.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 16, 2006)

Falco-san said:
			
		

> Can someone fill me in on the powers of the silver surfer?
> 
> All I can remember from him is being a Emo lackey of Galactus(Spelling?)



He basically has all of Galactus' powers but at a far smaller scale

That said a tiny portion of the Power Cosmic dwarfs _ALL_ DB characters


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## Falco-san (Aug 16, 2006)

blue.rellik said:
			
		

> He basically has all of Galactus' powers but at a far smaller scale
> 
> That said a tiny portion of the Power Cosmic dwarfs _ALL_ DB characters




Yeah I did some reading up on Wikipedia and edited my post 

I really couldnt remember the guy well, but he is pretty damn strong.


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## Vicious (Aug 16, 2006)

"pyron" would fu** up silver sufer, but their a whole new level compared to dbz!


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## Rice Ball (Aug 16, 2006)

personally i think Lord Pyron v Silver surfer would be a good fight.

I think if you allowed Vegeto instead of Gogeta, the battle would be closer.


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## Reznor (Aug 16, 2006)

Thing about Gogeta is that we didn't really see much of his power.


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## kingAP (Aug 16, 2006)

Well since the Silver Surfer has Immortality I gonna go with him cause by the time GoKu and vegete run out of power silver surfer can end them.


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## superbatman86 (Aug 16, 2006)

That molecule manipulator wins easily.


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## Molekage (Aug 16, 2006)

the silver surfer pretty much owns. saiyans can do NOTHING to him. hes pretty much god compared to them.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Spirit bomb would do nothing to him, he's pure of heart.
> 
> Any chance of anything resembling a fair match was over when the OP specified they would all be fighting to their fullest potential. That means Surfer will blitz them at millions of times lightspeed and transmute every other atom in their bodies into antimatter.



LOL! If it is Goku and Vegeta against Surfer this is a mismatch! The Surfer willo get killed.

Goku ALONE is more than enough for the Surfer. 

Goku wins!!! while Vegeta kicks back and drinks Capsule Corp Juice!


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> LOL! If it is Goku and Vegeta against Surfer this is a mismatch! The Surfer willo get killed.
> 
> Goku ALONE is more than enough for the Surfer.
> 
> Goku wins!!! while Vegeta kicks back and drinks Capsule Corp Juice!



The retard is back, lemme guess, Vegeta can shoot sliver surfer off the planet? _*You Lose*_


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> The retard is back, lemme guess, Vegeta can shoot sliver surfer off the planet? _*You Lose*_



What are you talking about!

Goku alone is MORE than enough for the Silver Surfer!!! 

I am not going to debate with you Rild because your knowledge of Comics and manga is not high enough.


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

God, the things i hate most after politicians are fanboys.
Overkill, Saiyans win with little to no effort.

Oh, Kuya, Please stop making those DBZ Vs Threads. Or do you enjoy all this chaos.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

Anyone care to elaborate on how the Saiyans win?


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Anyone care to elaborate on how the Saiyans win?


And why do they always match the sayins up against Immortals and cosmics and expect them to win?


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## Aruarian (Aug 16, 2006)

The Saiyans win because fanboys lack the logic to understand that Silver Surfer is out of DBZ's league.

Then again, I've never accused either Phenomelol nor The Nameless Pharao of possesing any decent ammount of common sense or intelligence, but that might just be me.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Anyone care to elaborate on how the Saiyans win?



You mean how Goku wins! 

If any of you know anything about the Silver Surfer you would not be trying to hype him up.

Silver surfer is the most OVERRATED comic character in the Comic kingdom.


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## Aruarian (Aug 16, 2006)

Do _you_ know anything about the Surfer, Phenomenol? Because I could swear you're full of shit.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> Do _you_ know anything about the Surfer, Phenomenol? Because I could swear you're full of shit.



Yeah I do, I read and HAVE plenty of his comics. 

Trust me I already you don't know anything about him you are just going along with the majority. It is ok it is not your fault.


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> The Saiyans win because fanboys lack the logic to understand that Silver Surfer is out of DBZ's league.
> 
> Then again, I've never accused either Phenomelol nor The Nameless Pharao of possesing any decent ammount of common sense or intelligence, but that might just be me.



Shut up moron. Its you who doesnt use logic. Im much more intelligent than you are.

BTW spell "Pharaoh" correctly before claiming to be intelligent.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Yeah I do, I read and HAVE plenty of his comics.
> 
> Trust me I already you don't know anything about him you are just going along with the majority. It is ok it is not your fault.



If you're trying to make everybody hate your guts then, 
*CONGRATULATIONS, YOU'VE SUCCEEDED JACKASS*


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## Aruarian (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> Shut up moron. Its you who doesnt use logic. Im much more intelligent than you are.
> 
> BTW spell "Pharaoh" correctly before claiming to be intelligent.


Try using grammar before claiming yourself more intelligent than me, dipshit.


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

WTF is wrong with my grammar?.


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## konflikti (Aug 16, 2006)

The lack of 's for example.

If not counted when he is down-leveled to not make street heroes look like idiots, and in his own stories instead(as OP states), Silver Surfer should win handily.


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

konflikti said:
			
		

> The lack of 's for example.
> 
> If not counted when he is down-leveled to not make street heroes look like idiots, and in his own stories instead(as OP states), Silver Surfer should win handily.


Im not in a friggin english exam here.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

Well, if SS was to use the fullest of his potential. . . well, it all depends on his jobber aura.


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## Orga777 (Aug 16, 2006)

Power Cosmic > EVERYTHING

Yes, nothing can beat Power Cosmic, and that includes Goku and Vegeta. Silver Surfer takes this one.


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## Spidey (Aug 16, 2006)

wow, yeah, Silver surfer at his fullest potential is wayyy out dbz's league. As other's said, the power cosmic > dbz


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## Rhythmic- (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> Im not in a friggin english exam here.



You're actually the one who started all this, dissing Minami's grammar skills. 

As for the topic, don't know much about Surfer. But reading about him in Wiki provided by a member above, makes me think he'll take down Goku and Vegeta with ease. Although Gogeta 4 might stand a chance.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Well, if SS was to use the fullest of his potential. . . well, it all depends on his jobber aura.



It is clear to me that many of you don't know much about the Silver Surfer.
All of you stating he wins and gives no reason at all is already proof of that. 

Saying that Surfer> DBZ is quite foolish.


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> WTF is wrong with my grammar*?.*




The problem with this fight is just how often the Surfer is toned down so that his interactions with Earth heroes aren't "oh, I pat you on the back for a job well done and there go your lungs flying the other way."  At full potential the Surfer would be quite formidable, given the various abilities he's demonstrated in the past.


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## escamoh (Aug 16, 2006)

Can anyone tell me what Goku or Vegeta would do to harm Silver Surfer?


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

esca3 said:
			
		

> Can anyone tell me what Goku or Vegeta would do to harm Silver Surfer?


Can anyone tell me what SS would do to harm Goku and Vegeta?.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Yeah I do, I read and HAVE plenty of his comics.
> 
> Trust me I already you don't know anything about him you are just going along with the majority. It is ok it is not your fault.



You read the comics, so stop bullshitting and tell us how Kakarot and vegeta wins


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## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 16, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> You read the comics, so stop bullshitting and tell us how Kakarot and vegeta wins



*They pee on him.

Unless, of course the sivler surfer actually moves. In which case, Goku and Vegeta die. 
*


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

I've noticed that none of the DBZ supporters have put forth any actual arguments.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> I've noticed that none of the DBZ supporters have put forth any actual arguments.



You said that Surfer can beat Goku, I am waiting to see if any of you know anything about the Surfer. Goku can easily give the Surfer a PHYSICAL beatdown.


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

To date the only character who has "easily" beaten down the Surfer physically is probably Aegis, despite opening up the battle with an energy blast that left the Surfer with plenty of fight in him.  And I'm pretty sure the Surfer's still alive anyway.  Goku is in no way anything close to Aegis.  If Goku does triumph through physical assault alone, it'll be hell on him from beginning to end.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> You said that Surfer can beat Goku, I am waiting to see if any of you know anything about the Surfer. Goku can easily give the Surfer a PHYSICAL beatdown.



Tell me how they win loser. Or I'm just going to consider you a troll and take any post you make after this Bullshit


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## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> God, the things i hate most after politicians are fanboys.
> Overkill, Saiyans win with little to no effort.
> 
> Oh, Kuya, Please stop making those DBZ Vs Threads. Or do you enjoy all this chaos.



i enjoy it  ... i like posting them because my friends and i don't have the knowledge of all this like all u guys do. so i always wondered about some of these fights, and it seems like there's a hell of a lot of people in this forum who are more then aware then many MANY characters in the fictional universe. so i juss post, and i let them debate, and i learn.


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> i enjoy it  ... i like posting them because my friends and i don't have the knowledge of all this like all u guys do. so i always wondered about some of these fights, and it seems like there's a hell of a lot of people in this forum who are more then aware then many MANY characters in the fictional universe. so i juss post, and i let them debate, and i learn.


But what is said in threads isn't always true.


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## Spidey (Aug 16, 2006)

whats to stop surfer from just rearanging their moleocules seeing as he is physically faster, stronger and has better senses than both.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Spidey said:
			
		

> whats to stop surfer from just rearanging their moleocules seeing as he is physically faster, stronger and has better senses than both.



LOL! We all know that the surfer CANNOT rearrange a persons atoms or molecules If that person has a high enough power. One planet destroying blast and surfers down. Surfers durability isn't greater than a planet sorry.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Surfer can amp his strength to stronger levels than Hulk, and he has never been defeated physically except when cosmic power was imbued into the punches.

You're just bullshitting again, phenom.


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## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> But what is said in threads isn't always true.



you're right, but at least i get to read arguments on both sides from people who are into all this stuff and who have some decent knowledge. i juss like listening/reading.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Prove yourself Phenomenol. Tell everbody exactly how Kakarot and Vegeta Wins. Or are you afraid now everybody knows you're an idiot


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> LOL! We all know that the surfer CANNOT rearrange a persons atoms or molecules If that person has a high enough power. One planet destroying blast and surfers down. Surfers durability isn't greater than a planet sorry.



Are you an idiot or something?

Wait, stupid question.

Surfer routinely flies through supernovas and black holes, and has even taken galaxy - destroying blasts.

He destroyed a planet in his fight with Morg, and was unharmed.

And he can transmute anyone if they have no defense against it, no matter how strong they are.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Surfer can amp his strength to stronger levels than Hulk, and he has never been defeated physically except when cosmic power was imbued into the punches.
> 
> You're just bullshitting again, phenom.
> 
> ...



No Most of this is BULL ****! you are once again hyping up crap...

LOL do you know anything about the silver surfer? He''s been knocked out by a brick sent at him by KARNAK the inhuman. He' been knocked out by the Thing,Thanos,millenius,Odin, the runner, Thor and loads more. He gets knocked out all the damn time. MIDNIGHT SUN: a MARTIAL ARTIST went toe to toe with the Surfer as well. His body is virtually indestructable but he still can be knocked unconcious. Yes he has tremendous TRAVELING speed, yet he's been tagged by the likes of Spider-man and even the Hulk because his COMBAT SKILLS and REFLEXES are average. Btw Spiderman beat a HERALD of Galactus: FIRELORD. Being a herald doesn't make you unbeatable. Btw you DO know that Surfer doesn't transmute people into jello, he's a pacifist. Its something he would never do. Btw Goku doesn't have a specific weakness he's not Superman or Gladiator.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol, are you ignoring me?

 Stop criticizing everybody's proof and show of that proof of yours.

 Prove that I am less intelligent than you are. Make me look like a fool. 

If you can


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## The Nameless Pharaoh (Aug 16, 2006)

rild, Shut up and please stop posting all your garbage.
Endless Mike is the one who is debating while you argue with phenom like a 2 year old.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

Goku's susceptible to heart disease, if anything.


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## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

haha let's keep on subject. too much hating right now. intelligence =/= knowledge of comics and manga. so stop the hating k?


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> No it is the other way around buddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DarkChidori3 (Aug 16, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> Try using grammar before claiming yourself more intelligent than me, dipshit.



YO YO guys chill the flaming!!! 

All I want is for us to hold hands and bake a cake full of rainbows and smiles  

I win


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

The Nameless Pharaoh said:
			
		

> rild, Shut up and please stop posting all your garbage.
> Endless Mike is the one who is debating while you argue with phenom like a 2 year old.



Whatever,  This is just another Superman vs Goku thread. Real name: Norrin Radd

For any info on marvel charaters. Link: here   And I don't give a damn what you think

Occupation: Adventurer
Identity: Public
Legal status: Citizen of Zenn-La with no criminal record.
Place of birth: Zenn-La Group
Affiliation: Former member of the DEFENDERS
First appearance: FANTASTIC FOUR, Vol. 1 #48

History: Norrin Radd - former hearald of the mega-tyrant Galactus, offer his life to protect his native planet, placing him in the service of Galactus as a silver suited sentinal. As a galaxy cruising protector endowned with superhuman strength, he is able to control and direct cosmic energies, with enough force to destroy a city. After visiting Earth, the Surfer finally betrayed Galactus and refused to supply his world-devouring appetite. His punishement was confinement to earth - but he escaped and currently soars the starways as a universal protector.

Height: 6 ft. 4 in.
Weight: Unknown
Eyes: White
Hair: None

Known superhuman powers: The Silver Surfer can endow himself with Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. He possesses the Power Cosmic which he can use to generate powerful force blasts or to rearrange molecules. The Surfer travels on a "surfboard" which responds to his mental commands and is as indestructible as he is. He has a Cosmic Awareness which allows him to feel energy around him.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Or Surfer could do what he did in Annihilation and turn the planet into a black hole.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Which was just idiotic writing. Besides, in the comic he was severely weakened and caught off - guard anyway.
> 
> *Bad writing huh? Does sthat mean that every figth they've ever had, no no every fight surfer has EVER had (with someone who can't travel as fast as him tagging him) is also bad writing? Bahahahhahaaaaaa, half of the surfers entire series of book must be bad writing then.*
> 
> ...



I read it, Show me when Surfer Transmute actual PEOPLE in battle? he doesn't. If you blow up the planet Goku will teleport somewhere else. So just stop with your FANBOYISM and excuses, you really did not refute any of my post you just made excuses and stated garbage with no proof.

Surfer ain't beating Goku.


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## Aruarian (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol, question: Why the fuck do you still call other people fanboys? Is it because you enjoy hypocrisy, or is it mere ignorance from your part?


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> I read it, Show me when Surfer Transmute actual PEOPLE in battle? he doesn't. If you blow up the planet Goku will teleport somewhere else. So just stop with your FANBOYISM and excuses, you really did not refute any of my post you just made excuses and stated garbage with no proof.
> 
> Surfer ain't beating Goku.




We've been through the Surfer transmuting people in combat thing a million times and it always ends with you not accepting that the definition of transmutation includes when he trapped Genis Vell in his board.  

Plus this mythical "somewhere else" you talk about Goku teleporting to...and if there's no somewhere else?  If the battle is in a neutral universe with only these combatants and the Surfer destroys the planet, Goku dies.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

I give up.
 When somebody tells me to shut up before Phenomenol. 
Something's wrong. 

he could claim that Mickey Mouse could beat Kal-el, I could care less


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

> Bad writing huh? Does sthat mean that every figth they've ever had, no no every fight surfer has EVER had (with someone who can't travel as fast as him tagging him) is also bad writing? Bahahahhahaaaaaa, half of the surfers entire series of book must be bad writing then.



Not really, since you're only cherry - picking low showings to make him look weak. No one takes that fight seriously anyway.



> Excuse. He still gets tagged by slow ass characters.



Are you even paying attention? That was before his powers were defined, it doesn't count because that wasn't the same Surfer as there is today.



> Bull ****, This is a guy who could not handle Captain America's Reflexes and had to cheat to beat him with the INFINITY GAUNTLET. Not to mention Thanos is no faster than an olympic human.



Where do you get this bullshit from? Thanos has FTL reflexes, he's beaten fast people like Eros all the time. And he was only using the Power Gem in that fight, and deliberately letting the heroes get shots in to try to make it look good for Mistress Death.



> Oh really? Even though in that very same issue Thanos (the guy you drone on about surfer being able to go toe to toe with) went toe to toe with Odin while surfer got knocked unconcious with a casual blast before the fight even started.



Because Thanos and Odin are both stronger than Surfer, and both way way stronger than DBZ chars.



> Just stop right now, The Runner is no greater than the Surfer and can be KNOCKED out.



Not with the piddling physical strength of DBZ characters. Besides, they'd have to catch him first.



> LOL! Thor? Slow Ass Thor will get raped by Goku easily.



Thor can travel hundreds of times lightspeed, lift beings as big as planets, and crack a Celestial's armor. Goku would have no chance.



> No, I base feats in battle! All battles are high end feats because you see what they can do.



The only real feats that matter are feats that can be compared to real - world entities, because that allows us to judge their power.



> Bull crap, Surfer has been decked by low ass beings. You are just pulling crap out of your ass.



Pot and kettle, anyone? I already debunked all your stupid arguments.



> Yet the Surfer still struggles with them!



When was he 'struggling' with Spider-man? As I recall, he was desperately holding back so he didn't kill him, and he was severel weakened at that point as well.

As for the Hulk, he just drains the gamma radiation out of him and KOs him (like he would drain the ki out of Goku and Vegeta).



> Bull ****, You are lying and this is fanboyism. Surfer only Travels at FTL speeds he does not have FTL Combat speeds. Do you want me to post Spiderman dancing around Surfer like he was at the DDR arcades?



Stop ignoring context, moron. Surfer has FTL combat speed and reflexes, he was desperately holding back so he didn't kill Spider-man.



> I read it, Show me when Surfer Transmute actual PEOPLE in battle? he doesn't. If you blow up the planet Goku will teleport somewhere else. So just stop with your FANBOYISM and excuses, you really did not refute any of my post you just made excuses and stated garbage with no proof.
> 
> Surfer ain't beating Goku.



Surfer blows it up at millions of times lightspeed before Goku even knows what's happening or even realizes there's a threat. Goku has no fucking chance. Get it through your thick head.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Man, Phenomenol's a S-class Troll. Don't waste your time. No matter how much proof you bring to him, he'll deny it


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## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

aww everyone forgot that he's also fighting Vegeta.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> aww everyone forgot that he's also fighting Vegeta.



The power difference is that great. Vegeta doesn't matter. they'd still lose


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## Kuya (Aug 16, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> The power difference is that great. Vegeta doesn't matter. they'd still lose



Vegeta does matter.

It's not Goku vs. Silver Surfer.

He'd add a lot of advantage to the Saiyan side.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Kuya said:
			
		

> Vegeta does matter.
> 
> It's not Goku vs. Silver Surfer.
> 
> He'd add a lot of advantage to the Saiyan side.



And how is that going to help when he turns the planet into a black hole?


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

Well, the reason no one really considers Vegeta is because the Saiyan supporters believe Goku is far enough above the Surfer that Vegeta is overkill, and the Surfer supporters believe that the Surfer is far enough above them both that it doesn't matter.  The argument won't be resolved in any case because neither side will back down an inch, so adding Vegeta makes little difference because they'll never come to agreement over whether or not Surfer > Goku.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Aug 16, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Whatever,  This is just another Superman vs Goku thread.



Wrong. Superman Vs Goku is a close fight. 
On the otherhand, Sliver Surfer Vs The Dbzverse has surfer raping them.
 Surfer Before his power up>>>>>> Superman. 
Surfer after Annihalition 4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman. 

Surfer is amongst the most underestimated characters in comicdom. Power Cosmic is also underestimated. Pfft at Ion energy. Tshh, with Surfers power up you could have him fight the entire dbzverse and toss in the entire Jla, and Surfer still wins. Stop underestimating Surfer. Watch and see, I am not overestimating him at all.  Surfers new found Uberness will further be on display in the series that concludes Annihilation.  Lastly, Surfer fighting at "Full Potential" is more broken then Flash Unleashed. 

-Surfer prior to his power up written to his best is also broken.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Udesphikaiyo said:
			
		

> Wrong. Superman Vs Goku is a close fight.
> On the otherhand, Sliver Surfer Vs The Dbzverse has surfer raping them.
> Surfer Before his power up>>>>>> Superman.
> Surfer after Annihalition 4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Superman.
> ...



I mean with the Rabid fanboys


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Not really, since you're only cherry - picking low showings to make him look weak. No one takes that fight seriously anyway.
> 
> *No, that is how the Surfer is in all of his battles. Go actually read most of his fights.*
> 
> ...



Surfer can not blow a planet up at millions of times lightspeed, this is fanboyism talk. Surfer can and has been speedblitzed and KO'd Frequently and Goku is more than capable of doing it.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

> No, that is how the Surfer is in all of his battles. Go actually read most of his fights.



That's idiotic. I've read tons of Surfer comics and rarely ever encounter stupidity like the Karnak incident.



> Then I guess his powers too this day are NOT defined. He's still getting smacked by Slow ass beings. Hulk and Thor anyone? The Most overrated and INCONSISTENT bastard in all of comics the Silver Surfer ladies and gentlemen.



Thor is many times lightspeed and Hulk is not a real threat to him anyway so he has no need to fight him at high speed.



> Do you know what the hell you are chatting? Eros his brother? The guy who got beat by She hulk? LOL what a damn joke, he is just as slow as Thanos.



Would you stop cherry - picking low - end showings only? That's dishonest bullshit. Eros is confirmed at FTL speeds.



> The damn power gem increases ALL natural abilities including speed, yet he had to cheat to cancel the Captain's fast reflexes. Thanos has no lightspeed reflexes.



No, the power gem only increases POWER. And he was deliberately letting them get in shots to make the battle look good. Thanos tags FTL people all the time, of course he has FTL reflexes. Take a look at the gauntlet grab, for example.



> Bull crap! Thanos and Surfer are about even in power. The difference in their fights is that Thanos is the better hand to hand combatant. Surfer may edge him out in power. That is why Goku beats Surfer into a comma.



You're a moron. Thanos is well above Surfer, he has outperformed him many times. Goku's physical strength is too weak to even affect Surfer.



> "piddling" physical strength? Please Goku is very strong in his own right, when your punches can create shockwaves that destroy mountains and the enviornment, or lift the "DENSEST" Material in the universe in your weakest form you are physically strong.



Goku has never created a shockwave that destroyed a mountain, and it was the strongest material, not the densest. Hulk smashes mountains and islands all the time, and Surfer has physically overpowered him. Thor has lifted planet - size objects and Surfer has physically matched him. Ronan is on that level, and Surfer has beaten him silly. You're just being a stupid fanboy now.



> Thor's HAMMER can travel FTL! Thor is slow in combat, he has no reflexes. This is a guy who gets SPEEDBLITZED by the MONGOOSE and can do nothing about it. Oh did I mention that Thor has beaten the Surfer at least 3 times.



Right, because everyone knows whenever we put Thor in a fight, it's without his hammer. 

Thor tracked Beta Ray Bill's spaceship over space at 100 times c, he dug a trench faster than anyone could see, and Mjolnir has some very, very powerful energy, time, and dimensional manipulation abilities.



> You see the true power of a character in battle. I have seen people like Superman and Surfer knocked out by characters who can not lift as much as them. The Battle is the true test.



You just say that because you want to ignore the really important feats, like moving planets, flying through supernovas, and creating black holes.



> LOL! making excuses and calling everything stupid has already shown you lost your composure.



Of course I'm losing my composure. I can't help it when facing such profound idiocy.



> He was struggling with Spiderman, also Deardevil and spiderman gave him trouble in another issue. Where Spiderman KNOCked the Surfer off of his board.



When he was weakened, not trying to fight, and trying his best to hold back. Stop with the bullshit already.



> SS cannot absorb close or any near to unlimited energies. If he absorbs too much he WILL EXPLODE. This has been addressed in the comics when the surfer became a living bomb.



If you're talking about Infinity Crusade, he was just fine after the explosion, and that was only a medium showing, as he has absorbed a lot more than that. He could easily drain Goku and Vegeta dry. Besides, he can redirect extra energy out of his body to other places.



> No you are wrong. Is that why Surfer hets tagged by Thanos a guy who has Human Olympic speed, or what about Thor who had his arm broke and speedblitzed by Mongoose. Surfer can only travel on his board faster than light.



For the last fucking time, Thanos tags FTL people all the time, meaning he has FTL reflexes. Thor is hundreds of times lightspeed. And without his board, Surfer can still go warp speed, he just needs his board to go hyperspeed.



> Surfer can not blow a planet up at millions of times lightspeed, this is fanboyism talk. Surfer can and has been speedblitzed and KO'd Frequently and Goku is more than capable of doing it.



He can move at millions of times lightspeed. He can blow up planets. Therefore, he can blow up a planet at millions of times lightspeed. Goku wouldn't even get hear him, and there's nothing Goku can do to even hurt him.

You're just a fanboy and a troll of the worst kind.


----------



## Vicious (Aug 16, 2006)

> You're just a fanboy and a troll of the worst kind.


thats the funniest sentence i ever seen!! anyway hes still no match for pyron!sorry but he isnt!! i havent seen silver surfer destroy planets with his fingers without trying!


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

4thandnaruto said:
			
		

> thats the funniest sentence i ever seen!! anyway hes still no match for pyron!sorry but he isnt!! i havent seen silver surfer destroy planets with his fingers without trying!



And this is relevant.... how?


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## Vicious (Aug 16, 2006)

> And this is relevant.... how?


well its not, i'm just saying pyron>silver surfer >goku vegeta, i guess it doesnt implies to the topic!


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

Annihilation: Silver Surfer #4.

The Surfer, locked in combat with Ravenous, tells him, "learn from this."  The next moment, the planet's rubble, Ravenous looks like he's seen the second coming of Christ, and the Surfer stands by idly, telling him to pack his butt up and go back to the Negative Zone.

Oh and Thanos is way freaking more powerful than the Surfer in pretty much every aspect.  The fact that he was able to lock hold with Tyrant is proof that he's way above any mere Galactus Herald in strength.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> That's idiotic. I've read tons of Surfer comics and rarely ever encounter stupidity like the Karnak incident.
> 
> *Guess you have not read much about Surfer. *Sigh* The brick it is was done by KARNAK, if you knew ANYTHING about Karnak you'd understand HOW the brick was able to knock him out. *
> 
> ...



Your ignorance is Endless...

Read your last post, this is nothing but ASSUMPTION! "He can move at millions of times lightspeed. He can blow up planets. Therefore, he can blow up a planet at millions of times lightspeed." Wow, so he can move this fast and yet the number of characters that were brought up that are slower than snails still TAGG his ass. Physco Man has even smacked the Surfer.:amazed


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## Galt (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Yeah Surfer has to cheat to beat the Hulk by Draining his ass because the Surfer never dodges the Hulks attacks. Too slow.



Did you even see him fight Bannerless Hulk?  He was trying to calm him down so he wouldn't hurt anybody.  Not that he could hurt the Surfer, Bannerless Hulk struck him multiple times in that battle to absolutely no effect whatsoever.  The Surfer doesn't dodge the Hulk because the Hulk's blows mean nothing to him.  Do you dodge dust particles blowing at you through the wind?  No.

God I have never known another human being who made me believe so strongly in eugenics.  And I mean the purging eugenics.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

> Guess you have not read much about Surfer. *Sigh* The brick it is was done by KARNAK, if you knew ANYTHING about Karnak you'd understand HOW the brick was able to knock him out.



According to the comic, it was because it hit him before his defenses could activate. Sort of like how Vegeta knocked out Goku with one punch while his defenses were down.



> Thor's Hammer is many times lightspeed! Not Thor himself. Yeah Surfer has to cheat to beat the Hulk by Draining his ass because the Surfer never dodges the Hulks attacks. Too slow.



Thor almost always uses Mjolnir in battle, so what's your point? Hulk's attacks can't really hurt the Surfer, so he has no need to dodge them. He's not slow.



> My God, you know nothing!. Eros is garbage I doubt you actually know who Eros is? He is slow just like his damn brother, (yeah the purple gorilla)


.

You're the one who knows nothing. Eros is the speedster of the Titans.



> Damn your perception of speed is F**ked up. Surfer TRAVELED 31 times the speed of light, Ohh! here it is the REFLEXIVE part He FAILED to grab the damn gauntlet and Thanos had his COSMIC AWARNESS turned off. The Surfer only travels fast on his board not fight at lightspeed. This is the reason why he gets knocked out all the time.



First of all, it was 31 MILLION times lightspeed. Second of all, what is your point here? The Surfer attempted to grab the gauntlet at that speed, but Thanos reacted and dodged it. Besides, the mere fact that Thanos has cosmic awareness contributes to the fact that he has FTL reflexes, cosmic awareness just enhances them.



> Bull crap, I can post where Thanos gets his ass handed to him by the Surfer but Thanos tricks the Surfer into begging him to stop so the Surfer does stop. Surfer and Thanos are almost equals. I never seen Surfer's punches create shockwaves that tears up mountains and the enviornment. and what is it that you are not getting that Goku lifted and tossed the "DENSEST" material in the universe?



That was pre - Death Thanos. Post - death is much stronger. And Surfer and Morg destroyed an entire planet just by fighting on it. And it wasn't the densest, it was the strongest. It obviously wasn't that dense, because it had no noticeable gravitational field. Surfer has flown through black holes which takes a lot more power.



> Bull crap, Goku Vs. Majin Vegeta, that fight was tearing up the enviornment and mountains just from the impact of their blows alone. Goku lifted It the DAMN "DENSEST" Material no where does it say the strongest. Quit looking at the damn Dranet Manga. Goku has more than enough strength to KO Surfer.



I've seen the scans you posted, smashing up a few rocks in about a 50 meter radius hardly qualifies as 'tearing up mountains'. Besides, that was a ki effect. And it was the strongest, not the densest. Show me a scan where it says it was the densest. Goku's physical strength is nowhere near that of the Hulk or Thor or Ronan or any of the other guys Surfer routinely takes blows from.



> Yeah, does Thor get to travel long distances in a fight, No.. So think for once



That doesn't even make sense. Thor's hammer is an integral part of his fighting style.



> Once again all with the Hammer, I know what the hell Thor and the Hammer can do. Thor does not really Fly actually he tosses Mjolnir and he then travels.



Um, wrong, as long as he is holding it he can fly.



> Those feats sure as hell don't help him in his Battles... That is my point.



Imagine being hit by someone who can move a planet. Imagine trying to hurt someone who can fly unharmed through supernovas. Imagine trying to survive being turned into a black hole.



> I whooped your ass in the Goku vs. Superman thread seems their is some bitterness in you.



Tell me, what color is the sky in that little world you live in?


> No he was not weakened, he says no such thing in the comic. Your just trying to cover Surfer's sorry ass.



It's obvious you know nothing. In the Surfer's first series, where the Spider-man and Karnak fights happened, it was a major plot point that Galactus' barrier was trapping him on earth, and the longer he was trapped, the weaker he would get. He commented on it several times. I read the entire series, I would know. Still, he managed to perform a planetary - level feat in that series (draining all the electrical power from earth) even in his weakened state, and he did it easily. You tend to ignore actual high - end feats.



> No I am not talking about IC! Surfer has limits to how much he can absorb. Surfer only drained the Radiation out of Hulk Goku does not have a weakness like that.



It's not a weakness. Hulk is powered by gamma radiation. Gamma radiation is energy, so Surfer can absorb and redirect it. Goku and Vegeta are powered by ki. Ki is also energy, so Surfer can absorb and redirect it.



> You are wrong and denying facts. Show me where Thanos has ever been speed blitzed in batte? Show me Thanos actually speedblitzing someone in battle? You can not. Surfer has always been Smacked by characters slower than him. without his board and with his board it makes no difference. stop wit hthe excuses.



Thanos was speedblitzed by the Runner in Thanos Quest, but still won. Thanos doesn't speedblitz people because his actual speed isn't that fast, it's his REFLEXES which are fast, that allow him to tag faster characters. Surfer doesn't fight at maximum speed all the time, only against fast opponents. Besides, this thread specifies they are fighting to their fullest potential.



> Your ignorance is Endless...
> 
> Read your last post, this is nothing but ASSUMPTION! "He can move at millions of times lightspeed. He can blow up planets. Therefore, he can blow up a planet at millions of times lightspeed." Wow, so he can move this fast and yet the number of characters that were brought up that are slower than snails still TAGG his ass. Physco Man has even smacked the Surfer.



Yes he can. He flies toward the planet at millions of times lightspeed, and blows it up. Simple.

And again, cherry - picking low - end feats and ignoring the high - end ones is disengenuous and intellectually dishonest.

What about the time the Surfer fought the Uni - Lord?

What about when fought Tyrant?

What about when he evolved life on a planet in seconds?

What about when he gave everyone on Earth enlightenment for a second?

What about all the times he travelled back and forward in time?

What about when he took galaxy - destroying blasts from Odin? You complain that he was beaten by Odin with a blast, but that same blast would have instantly killed any DBZ character.

What about when he commented how easy it was to casually destroy a star?

What about when he destroyed a planet fighting with Morg?

What about when he flew through black holes and supernovas?

What about all his uber showings in Annihilation?

What about the time that he did well against Warrior Madness Thor with the Power Gem? This was after Beta Ray Bill had been defeated, and Bill is a casual planet-buster.

Oh, here's Surfer fighting at superspeed:

Link removed


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

Where'd you get the original pencils and inks for that page, EM?


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

naruhina pic

Now what's that you were saying about Spider-man and Daredevil being a threat to Surfer?

naruhina pic

If Surfer can do this to Hulk, he can turn Goku into bloody red paste with one punch.

naruhina pic

Now you're saying he has low reaction speed?

naruhina pic

Oh, and nothing Goku has can counter his time control.

naruhina pic

Surfer is stronger than the Hulk.

naruhina pic

So much for Surfer's absorbing abilities being too weak to absorb Goku and Vegeta's ki.

naruhina pic

Surfer can phase through solid matter. Including Goku and Vegeta, and tear them apart from the inside.




Here's one of those 'feats in battle' you always go on about so much. The enemy here had Gladiator's power, plus his own, plus the Uni - Power (the same power that powered Cosmic Spiderman). Surfer beat him.



Surfer survives a black hole and fights inside of it.



The famous 'Jesus Cable' is defeated.












Fight with Redshift, more of the black hole, transmutation, energy powers, shrinking, etc.








Surfer vs. Lunatik, who is like Doomsday on steroids. Surfer knocks him halfway across the planet, and then reveals he was holding back the whole time, as he boils the entire planet's oceans.









More of Surfer vs. Lunatik.

Surfer takes his earthshaking blows, dodges him and fights at high speed, and binds him to the planet's ecosystem so he can't leave without dying. Also notice that Lunatik hurt a Watcher, who are mid - cosmics.








Surfer easily defeats the Champion of the Universe and takes his blows, remember from Thanos Quest that this guy can smash a planet with his bare hands. Goku can't hurt Surfer with his punches.








Surfer defeats Savage Hulk, in one of his strongest incarnations. Note the energy barrier he used that fended off Hulk's blows, the same would easily work against Goku.



Surfer attacks Jack of Hearts from the inside out.






He absorbs an attack from an entire fleet of ships and uses the energy to stabilize a dying star.




Surfer easily absorbs the energy from a red giant star and gives it to Moondragon.



What's that you were saying about Psychoman?



Creates spaceships easily.




Destroying a star is a casual thing for a Herald.



Goodbye ki blasts.



Organic transmutation



Creates a field to hold Firelord.

More to come.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Where'd you get the original pencils and inks for that page, EM?



Silver Surfer website.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> According to the comic, it was because it hit him before his defenses could activate. Sort of like how Vegeta knocked out Goku with one punch while his defenses were down.
> 
> *LOL! that was never the case. You don't know anything about Karnak.*
> 
> ...



I can not read the scan. do not bother putting up the scans if we can not read them.


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## The Sentry (Aug 16, 2006)

Goku alone is 2 much 4 silver surfer. In desperation Silver Surfer calls Galctus and then Vegeta slices Galactuses fat head n. Then Goku charges up his most powerful Kamehameha as Silver Surfer looks in awe he then flies at full spped at Goku. At the end of the clash of powers Goku emerges victorious with Silver Surfers board as spoils......then i woke up 

but i sereously think Goku and Vegeta will be 2much 4 him


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## Vicious (Aug 16, 2006)

endless, i got to give you props for that, thats crazy good supply of info!


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

_In desperation Silver Surfer calls Galctus and then Vegeta slices Galactuses fat head n._

Only if it's a deathly starving Galactus.


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## The Sentry (Aug 16, 2006)

^^ yeh lol but if Goku and Vegeta were 2 get their hands on the ultimate nullifier they would beat Galactus n Silver Surfer hands down


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> naruhina pic
> 
> Now what's that you were saying about Spider-man and Daredevil being a threat to Surfer?
> 
> ...



These are all nice but most of them do not help Silver surfer in battle, I am glad you are a Silver surfer fan and were able to find these scans off of the internet but you have yet to address the points that I was makinging about you Surfer. You still have yet to refute my points then you post stuff that does not help.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

They'd never get a chance to fire it, since the UN is a part of Galactus, and an aspect of him.


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## The Sentry (Aug 16, 2006)

relli because the fantastic 4 once thretend him with it and he was shittin himself


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Cosmic senses.

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

Surfer has offensive telepathy, something Goku has no defense against.




Surfer moves ships through hyperspace. He could blast Goku into a black hole or a neutron star across the galaxy.





Transporting many beings across space.



Telekinesis



Surfer reacts in a nanosecond, way faster than Goku can think.



Surfer dodges through asteroids (asteroids in space move at an average of 20 meters/second)




Dodges through a homing asteroid swarm guided by Jakar.



Dodges Shi'ar energy weapon fire.




Dodges asteroids again.



Travels through a white hole and out a black hole, warping space.




Travels 500,000 light-years in just a few seconds/minutes.







More phasing.





Surfer reforms his board.



Surfer can travel to any dimension.



Dimensional portal again.




Escapes Soul World inside the Soul Gem and steals it from the Supreme Intelligence.



She - Hulk's punch = nothing to Surfer






Vibranium walls = nothing to Surfer




Black Bolt's voice did not harm Surfer. Black Bolt once killed Apocalpyse with just a whisper.



Surfer smiles after crashing into a planet.



Impossible Man makes Surfer fall to Mars but he is unhurt.



Smashed into the moon and is unhurt.



Unhurt by a combined alien assault of disintegration weapons.




Stops Rhino with one hand. Rhino is class 80.




More strength.







Surfer is able to recreate the Odinpower by just sampling it. He could easily do the same with Goku and Vegeta's ki.




Organic matter transmutation.




Surfer creates an equally powerful clone of himself.




Evolves a planet billions of years.






Surfer reactivates Galactus' barrier and also destroys a large planetoid.



Surfer absorbs Genis-Vell into his board.



Gives everyone on Earth true happiness for a moment.





Surfer's power goes out of control as he is sleeping having a nightmare, nullifying gravity, causing earthquakes, manipulating matter, sending a house into space, and generally causing havoc.




Rogue's power backfires when she touches the Surfer.



Crushed under the mass of an entire planet's worth of asteroids, and is unhurt and escapes. Goku's punches will do nothing.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

Creates holograms





Takes Nova back in time

Link removed
Link removed

More time travel, and a nice speed feat too.





Surfer's version of the solar flare attack. Except his has the intensity of a nova.




Omnidirectional attack.



Puts out a forest fire.



Flies through the sun unharmed.


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## The Sentry (Aug 16, 2006)

Goku does have a defense against offensive telepathy beacuse he trains his mind aswell as his body


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 16, 2006)

_relli because the fantastic 4 once thretend him with it and he was shittin himself_

Yeah. And yet, way later after that initial meeting, Galactus reveals that the UN is an aspect of himself that he can called to him at any time, even when Abraxas threatened to fire it.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 16, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Cosmic senses.
> 
> *DBZ Senses do that and more! So what is your point? I knew this already.*
> 
> ...




Once again you can STOP searching the net for scans, because you are not refuting any of my points. All of these scans are unimportant, they have no relevence in abttle. Please you are wasting your and more importantly my time with these Feats that you are jizzing over about.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 16, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Once again you can STOP searching the net for scans, because you are not refuting any of my points. All of these scans are unimportant, they have no relevence in abttle. Please you are wasting your and more importantly my time with these Feats that you are jizzing over about.



They aren't important cause you're only here to piss people off


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## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

> LOL! that was never the case. You don't know anything about Karnak.



What, that his power is to find weaknesses?

Surfer is not weak to bricks.

I read the goddamn comic, I know what it said.

Link removed




Link removed



> Surfer gets tagged al the time by Thanos and Thor who are slow in battle. He is slow.



Are you a parrot? Thanos is not slow, he has FTL reflexes. Thor is hundreds of times lightspeed.



Link removed

Some Thor speed scans.



> Oh yeah, could have fooled me getting smacked by she-hulk



Right, because being a speedster means you never ever get hit and use your speed in every fight no matter how slow your opponent is.... 



> Your a fool who did not even read my post. Thanos COSMIC AWARNESS was turned off, Surfer's Slow ass reflexes failed to grab it.



Surfer was going at 31 million times lightspeed. The fact that Thanos dodged him speaks for Thanos' reflexes, not Surfer's lack thereof.



> And? Thanos is still weak even after that powerup. Surfer had his ass given to him by thor and morg. This is roughly 5 minutes after morg had been give the power cosmic and the more experienced surfer got his ass whupped. He had to run along and get backup. The Manga and Anime states that the Material was the "DENSEST" in the universe. Your weak ass explanation does not override the manga. Goku has more than enough strength to punch Surfer.



Thanos is not weak, he destroys planets just by fighting on them, easily deflects planet - destroying punches, goes toe - to - toe with Galactus and Skyfathers. You're just so biased it's ridiculous. Thor has defeated Celestials. Thanos and Thor are above any DBZ character. Morg has been defeated by Surfer.

And you still don't have any scans saying 'densest' because the one I read said 'strongest'.



> It is The Densest Material in the Universe, I already posted scans of him lifting it with one hand go search onm this board. and the Shockwaves was pure Force from punches and kicks! You are hating on Goku's strength just because he lifted the Densest material in the universe. With this kind of strength Goku can KO the Surfer easily.



If you posted scans, then show me. I'm not going to search the whole board for them. And that 'shockwave' feat you keep going on about is less impressive than stuff done by Colossus and Iron Man. Once Colossus created a half - mile - wide crater in the ground just by punching it. And Goku struggled with 40 tons. Surfer takes hits from planet - destroying physical attacks, and black holes, and supernovas, and gets smashed inside planets, etc. Goku's strength can't touch him.



> No it makes sense, Thor is only fast in traveling but in combat. hell no! getting speedblitzed by Mongoose prooved that.



You obviously failed statistics classes, YOU CAN'T PROVE A TREND WITH ONE DATAPOINT!



> Yes he throws his hammer and it pulls him.



No, the hammer allows him to fly. He can change directions mid - flight.



> Imagine someone who shows none of those feats in BATTLE! (Silver Surfer) Now imagine being punched by someone who creates shockwaves that destroys mountains, imagine being punched by someone who can lift the DENSEST material in the universe. Goku can KO Surfer.



Why couldn't he use them in battle? And Surfer has been punched by much stronger guys. Like Ronan, and the Hulk, and Thanos, and Thor, and that cosmic vampire, etc.

Oh, BTW, here's Surfer's power IN BATTLE putting Goku and Vegeta's fight to shame:

Link removed




> I can not tell because I am using Superman's red cape as a napkin.



That doesn't even make sense.



> I know that already, The fact still does not change what happens to him in BATTLE. Damn you need to read.



You're the one who said he wasn't weakened.



> No he can't. Surfer does not know what the hell ki is. it is out of his Multiverse.



He can sense and absorb any kind of energy. Besides, there are ki users in the MU, like Iron Fist.



> Damn you are wrong and you make excuses that don't even exist in the comics.
> 
> Thanos Quest is not a very good example, since it can't relate to this fight in any level.Thanos beat the Runner with the Space Gem by using the Time Gem. Doesn't relate to this fight here since he doesn't have the Time Gem in this fight. Once again you have failed to answer my questions, you are beating around the bush. Show me where Surfer and Thanos are actually fighting someone who speed blitzes like Goku? You can not.



I've already provided tons of scans of Surfer's speed and reflexes. Here, take a look at this:

Link removed

Show me Goku doing anything anywhere near that fast, ever.



> Bullcrap, show me a scan of this, no better yet give me the issue# and I will post it myself.



You kind of missed the point. We know he can fly through space at millions of times lightspeed. We know he can blow up planets. Why couldn't he do both together?



> Nope I am using Surfer's battle feats and comparing them to Goku. I guess all of Surfers battles are low ends huh?



No, you're taking the lowest feats you can find and comparing them to Goku's highest feats.

If I did that I could make a case that Spider-man could beat Goku.



> Please you call this a feat? Uni-Lord is laughable.



Uni - Lord is a high - end cosmic. You don't even know who he is. Explain how he's 'laughable'.



> What, that was no fight! Tyrant captuered the Surfer wha tthe hell are you chatting.



Surfer did well against Tyrant and got some hits in:

Evidence



> Irrelevnt in a fight.



No, because he can transmute Goku's molecules.



> Wow! this is not a Yoga class!



It's psychic power. He can confuse their minds and beat them silly.



> Impressive TRAVELING speed which I have stated a dozen times.



Going through time is an ability they have no defense against, he can go back and kill them.



> Bull crap, the city of Asgard was still intact even after that battle, I was not impressed with the battl;e at all. A low dragonball villain did more damage than that.





> Wow. Goku can blow up a star or sun if he wanted too.



No he can't. Prove it.

Asgard is MAGICALLY DURABLE, idiot. It's tougher than a galaxy, Thanos' IG hissy-fit didn't damage it when it ravaged the rest of the universe and dimensions.



> I was not impressed.



Obviously, since you're such a biased fanboy.



> Morg handed Surfer's ass to him.



Wrong fight, dipshit.



> Sigh, Goku is more than a casual planet buster, so what's your point? Despite the fact that Thor has beaten the surfer and Adam warlock at the same time when he was overcome by warrior madness?



Goku has never destroyed a planet. Ever. And Surfer did very well against Warrior Madness Thor.



> I can not read the scan. do not bother putting up the scans if we can not read them.



Everyone else can read it fine.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 16, 2006)

> You did not show the whole comic before that. Still Spiderman and Daredevil are nothing to bragg about.



The point was that they were never a threat to him, he was holding back the whole time.



> Yes and they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength. Besides what does that prove? HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than who is the most durable you know.



Is this your game? You declare all non - combat feats worthless, and when I show combat feats, you say they are not impressive and then bring up a low - end feat of the guy that was beaten? Low - end feats are not to be used to dictate a trend.

You want some high - end Hulk feats?

Destroying a planetoid twice the size of Earth.

Lifting a mountain.

Lifting an island.

Lifting a mountain range.

Breaking Onslaught's armor.

Thunderclapping away a dimension - destroying blast.

etc.



> What the hell, All he was doing is traveling that is no reaction in battle?



He analyzed a situation and acted in a microsecond. That is high reaction speed that could easily be applied in battle.



> What the hell, Surfer does not have that ability, no where does it state he has time control powers.



I just showed you a goddamn scan of them!



> I don't see anything about the Surfer in that Comic! Where is the rest of it



Do I need to hold your hand through all of this? The Surfer attacked Hulk so quickly that he couldn't even be seen. That's a combat speed feat, too.



> LOL! He was pondering weather he can absorb fire lord's heat, and Firelord was beaten by Spiderman.



Right, because everything Firelord has ever done in any of his appearances is all worthless because he was beaten by Spider-man that one time. It's not like he even said in the comic he could have vaporized Spider-man with one blast but decided not to.

Goddamnit you are so fucking annoying it's not even funny.

S*TOP USING ONLY LOW - END FEATS!*



> We already he could bend molecules in objects, that is not helpful in battle.



Of course it is. He phases his hand through Goku's chest, and rips out his heart.



> The first scan did not come out clear, Gladiator is not an impressive opponent. I could not read the scans anyway.



What do you mean, Gladiator is not impressive? The guy can punch planets apart, fly through stars unharmed, move 100 times lightspeed, survive solar - system destroying blasts, and even rip apart neutron stars with his bare hands (stated by an agent of the Living Tribunal). And just when you find a scan that is too hard to bullshit your way out of, you just say you can't read it.



> Lunatik is laughable.



*You're* laughable. Lunatik has top - tier strength, has lived for 600 million years, and is constantly evolving and growing more powerful. He could easily thrash any DBZ character. The guy hurt a Watcher, for god's sake! Of course now I suppose you're going to say Watchers are weak.



> These scans are hurting you especially people like Champion who are Slower than Mongoose. Champion can not destroy a planet he did that with the Power Gem. Please all you are doing is putting on a show of corrupt data.



When Thanos took the power gem from Champion, Champion stated that he couldn't get it to work, anyway. The fight was all his own power.



> Goku can easily blast the Hulk off the planet. So your Hulk arguments are null and void.



I could just as easily say that Hulk could crush Goku's head like a melon.



> Goku's not using ships, he is using his martial arts!



Red herring. The point is that he absorbed and redirected an enormous amount of energy.



> Post the scans before that I will show you wha tI was talkinmg about.



It doesn't matter because Surfer won in the end. And it's not like Goku has psychic attacks, either.



> You have got to be a fool if you want to compare Ki blasts wit ha guys Ghost busters backpack!



There you go again, downplaying everything in the entire MU due to your bias. Those weapons were created from billions of years of advanced technology.



> Useless in battle.



Say that when Goku's brain is transformed into protoplasm.



> These are all nice but most of them do not help Silver surfer in battle, I am glad you are a Silver surfer fan and were able to find these scans off of the internet but you have yet to address the points that I was makinging about you Surfer. You still have yet to refute my points then you post stuff that does not help.



You're the one who is ignoring all of my points, and most of the scans as well.

Oh, BTW, here's another speedblitz feat:


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> Goku does have a defense against offensive telepathy beacuse he trains his mind aswell as his body



When has he ever demonstrated telepathic defenses? Especially the likes of ones that could stop a planetary - level cosmic telepath like the Surfer?



> DBZ Senses do that and more! So what is your point? I knew this already.



Really, then show me where DBZ characters can sense exactly what happened in the past, or hear people talking in a spaceship through the vacuum of space, or sense things outside of the universe (not just in another dimension, outside of the universe itself), or track a speck of dust across light - years of space, or hear a cry from a thousand light - years away, or detect a butterfly flapping its wings a galaxy away? They can't. You're bullshitting again.



> Goku can use Telepathy to, and Goku has never been mind raped Babidi tried but his SPIRIT was too strong.



Not offensive or defensive telepathy. And the reason Babidi's telepathy didn't work on him wasn't because he defended against it, it was because it only works on evil people. Surfer's telepathy has no such limitations.



> Your going to have to actually find and hit Goku to do that. Seeing as Surfer had trouble with MIDNIGHT SUN: a MARTIAL ARTIST went toe to toe with the Surfer as well.



Surfer's senses will track him easily, as already shown, and his speed is far greater. And would you stop bringing up low - end showings already?



> Useless, unless Goku and Surfer plan to save people.



Surfer could take Goku anywhere in the universe to any dangerous place.



> Wow, Piccolo has done that so can chaotzu both weaker than Goku.



Except they're not Goku. Goku doesn't have that power.



> Wow, Goku is not going to wrap you up in cable or chains. Lets see the Surfer actually dodge a punch that fast.



If he can react in a nanosecond, of course he could. What's the functional difference?



> Wow, cool asteroid hunting.



I'd like to see Goku do that. Wait, he can't breathe in space! 



> LOL! these feats are unimportant.



Why? Because you say so? Dodging thousands of projectiles moving at potentially relativistic speed that are all being guided and directed to you to trap you proves you have great reflexes and combat speed.



> No you could not! Goku is going to physically beat Surfer down, Surfer won't get the chance to see a ki blast.



Nothing gets through that thick skull of yours, does it? How is Goku, who struggled with 40 tons, going to 'beat down' a guy who takes planetbusting punches, galaxy - destroying blasts, flies through stars, black holes, supernovas, white holes, gets smashed into moons and planets, gets crushed inside of a planet, etc. ad infinitum?



> Once again you can STOP searching the net for scans, because you are not refuting any of my points. All of these scans are unimportant, they have no relevence in abttle. Please you are wasting your and more importantly my time with these Feats that you are jizzing over about.



They're very relevant. You're just ignoring them and denying reality, like you always do.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> What, that his power is to find weaknesses?
> 
> Surfer is not weak to bricks.
> 
> ...



Well it is nice and allthat you are trying so hard by searching for scans on the internet and you are still failing to bring info that is RELEVANT. you have yet t oaddress my questions and points.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> When has he ever demonstrated telepathic defenses? Especially the likes of ones that could stop a planetary - level cosmic telepath like the Surfer?
> 
> *Babidi tried to mind control him and Gohan. vegeta was the only person that allowed himself to be controlled.*
> 
> ...



Surfer does NOT take planet busting punches, he can barely take Thor's Hammer up his ass. Goku fights at Super Speed something the Surfer has trouble with and Goku's punches are actually stronger than the Surfers since any of the Surfers punches in battle fail to cause Shockwaves that destroys the enviornment. Goku lifted the "DENSEST" material in the universe! I think that Classify's as stronger than the Surfer, which means Goku can KO easily. Surfer Sucks at H2H combat something Goku specializes in. Also with Goku's Senses which will allow him to see Surfer's moves, Goku wins this battle.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenomenal. You're a fricking retard that makes me hate humans. 

Honestly, your ignorance is blinding. You bring up crap that doesn't happen (you still haven't got your scanner fixed right?) and ignore any evidence that you think would tarnish your precious Goku. Seriously why don't you go smash your brain against a brick wall a few times you overgrown mucus factory


----------



## Galt (Aug 17, 2006)

There are scans right there proving the Surfer has time-traveled before, with ease.  Anyone who reads the scan can tell you, yep, he traveled back in time.  If you can't see that, then I'm sorry that _Buck v. Bell_ apparently was not enacted in time to get across to your ancestors.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

blue.rellik said:
			
		

> Phenomenal. You're a fricking retard that makes me hate humans.
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance is blinding. You bring up crap that doesn't happen (you still haven't got your scanner fixed right?) and ignore any evidence that you think would tarnish your precious Goku. Seriously why don't you go smash your brain against a brick wall a few times you overgrown mucus factory



What are you talking about! do you know anything about the Silver Surfer and Goku? If not please be quiet and let me work. 



			
				Galt said:
			
		

> There are scans right there proving the Surfer has time-traveled before, with ease. Anyone who reads the scan can tell you, yep, he traveled back in time. If you can't see that, then I'm sorry that Buck v. Bell apparently was not enacted in time to get across to your ancestors



I have said he's time traveled I also agreed earlier in this thread, I also said that was a feat of DESPERATION in this battle. Surfer time travelling will be out of his MULTIVERSE how is he going to know when Goku was born.


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## Orofan (Aug 17, 2006)

The surfer is way way way more powerful than either at any time. The only person remotely close would be SSJ4 Gojeta.

The silver surver can tap cosic energy, he can CREATE matter from energet or vice versa. He's a bad mama jamma.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> What are you talking about! do you know anything about the Silver Surfer and Goku? If not please be quiet and let me work.



Of course not tart. I just know much about DBZ as you do since I've watched the same episodes you've watched

I've also seen those scans, Goku never gone that fast or displayed skills that strong that aren't ki blasts


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## Galt (Aug 17, 2006)

You must really suck at extrapolation.  You've never seen him time travel in a battle before.  Therefore he must not be able to do so?

You've never been kicked in the balls by me before.  In fact, you've never seen me kick someone in the balls before.  Does that mean I'm not going to be willing or able to kick you in the balls?  Hell no.


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## Orofan (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> The point was that they were never a threat to him, he was holding back the whole time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also for the record gladiator is RIDICULOUSLY powerful. 



No one is DBZ is in his class, or SS IMO.

Gladiator and SS are in the class 100 level with Thor and Thanos, etc.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> You must really suck at extrapolation.  You've never seen him time travel in a battle before.  Therefore he must not be able to do so?
> 
> You've never been kicked in the balls by me before.  In fact, you've never seen me kick someone in the balls before.  Does that mean I'm not going to be willing or able to kick you in the balls?  Hell no.



I did not mean it that way. I said for Mike to bring that up is desperation, and especially how will time travel work since Goku is out of Surfer's Multiverse?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 17, 2006)

Orofan said:
			
		

> Also for the record gladiator is RIDICULOUSLY powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gladiator is well above class 100. Goku at the end of DBZ (and Mystic Gohan) are also above class 100 in strength

Thor and Thanos are also well above class 100


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## Orofan (Aug 17, 2006)

And as for others in this universe few were more powerful than the Molecule man. He's one of the most powerful mutants ever.


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## Orofan (Aug 17, 2006)

blue.rellik said:
			
		

> Gladiator is well above class 100. Goku at the end of DBZ (and Mystic Gohan) are also above class 100 in strength
> 
> Thor and Thanos are also well above class 100



Marvel tops out at Class 100.

We don't know if Goku or Gohan are at that level because they do not use the same scale.

In addition Saiyans have that LITTLE weakness of not being able to breathe in a vacuum.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

_Surfer does NOT take planet busting punches, he can barely take Thor's Hammer up his ass._

Mystically enchanted Uru's freaking durable. And I mean freaking durable.

_And as for others in this universe few were more powerful than the Molecule man. He's one of the most powerful mutants ever._

Isn't the Molecule Man only half a Cosmic Cube? When was he descirbed as a mutant?

_Gladiator is well above class 100. Goku at the end of DBZ (and Mystic Gohan) are also above class 100 in strength_

The drawback with Gladiator is that his powers are in direct proportion to his confidence.

_Marvel tops out at Class 100._

They really need a higher class, IMO.

_In addition Saiyans have that LITTLE weakness of not being able to breathe in a vacuum._

And are still susceptible to disease.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 17, 2006)

Orofan said:
			
		

> Marvel tops out at Class 100.
> 
> We don't know if Goku or Gohan are at that level because they do not use the same scale.
> 
> In addition Saiyans have that LITTLE weakness of not being able to breathe in a vacuum.



All of those guys you mentioned previously have done feats in excess of 100 tons. Goku in base form, had 10 ton weights on his ankles and wrists and could only fly (since they were at the end of his body, they would have effectively been double in weight or something). He went into SS and he remarked how easy it is

Now imagine him in ss2, then ss3 then ss4. He's easily around 200 at his peak while the Marvel heavy hitters are even higher


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## Galt (Aug 17, 2006)

Yeah, but basically what he's saying is that there is no "scale" in Marvel after class 100.  Basically they go to class 100 and then everyone who can perform higher than that is lumped together, despite the fact that one guy may be 101, and the other guy 10,000.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

We need Class 200s and so on.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Once more unto the breach.....



> Thanks for the scans, although I don't see how they help surfer in this battle.



You wouldn't.

And the fact remains that in the comic it said that Karnak caught him with his defenses down.



> You have yet to proove Thanos having FTL reflexes yet you keep repeating, you are the parrot. Also how in the hell are those Speed feats by Thor?



Dodging the gauntlet grab, reacting to the Runner, beating Eros, etc. And the scans show Thor moving very quickly and delivering very fast series of blows to his enemies.

It's really the art style, just because the DBZ manga shows fast fights as a flurry of punches at once in one panel instead of a bunch of punches in succession doesn't make them faster. In One Piece, for example, when Luffy fought Enel, he was punching so fast it looked like he had hundreds of arms at once. Does this make his combat speed faster than DBZ characters?



> Being a speedblitzer in combat yes. You should never allow the likes of Mongoose or Juggenaut to tagg you.



Sorry, but that's not the way it works. Even the Flash gets tagged by slow people sometimes, but no one will deny that he is fast.



> Wrong, Thanos had the damn Infinity Gauntlet not his own reflexes, Surfer could not snatch it even with his Cosmic awareness turned off. They are both slow in combat.



This just shows your bias again. Thanos was only using the Power Gem, and Surfer was set up directly in a position to grab the gauntlet. The only way Thanos could have dodged it was if he had FTL reflexes.



> Thanos does not destroy planets by fighting on them.He never deflected planet destroying punches, he does not go toe to toe with Galactus and Odin. If any of those fight continued Thanos would have lost bad. I have seen low tier Dragonball villains do more destruction than Thanos.



Stop denying reality. Thanos and Drax destroyed a planet by fighting on it, and that was Pre - Death. Thanos took planet - destroying punches from Champion in Thanos Quest. Thanos blasted off Galactus' helmet and knocked him over the landscape, and later survived a blast from him. Thanos was holding his own against Odin before the fight ended. Thanos routinely engages in planet - smashing fights. And if you're referring to the damage from the Odin fight, Asgard is magically durable, as I already explained.



> Where did you read strongest? In the Dragonball Tonkounbon it said "Densest." Which means Goku will Ko the Surfer easily.



Then post the scan. Even if it does say that, it's unquantifiable, because we don't know how dense it is. It obviously wasn't as dense as a black hole, or else it would be one. It wasn't as dense as strange matter, or else it would turn Goku and everyone else into quarks. It wasn't as dense as neutronium, because it didn't form itself into a sphere (it was a cube) and it had no noticeable gravitational field. So even if it did say that (and there is no proof), the absolute highest - end calculation you could get for that would still be way, way weaker than what the Surfer is capable of.



> Surfer's punches never createds shockwaves that destroys the enviornment, I have never seen Surfer lift the "Densest" material in the universe. I never seen him speedblitz anyone like Goku. Goku will KO the Surfer.



Surfer fought Morg and smashed a WHOLE PLANET! Surfer has flown through black holes, which are the densest thing that can possibly exist. Your argument is like saying Naruto would beat Superman and saying "I've never seen Superman do a kage bunshin no jutsu or use a rasengan, so that means Naruto will win!"



> You failed English because you obviously do not know what Important and Relative means.



How does that pertain to your poor statistical abilities?



> Exactly, he tosses the hammer and it carries him allowing him to fly.



Why are you agreeing with me when you're saying something completely different from what I'm saying?



> Wow that is with energy! any dragonball character can do that. Hell Freeza can destroy a planet wit ha damn FINGER.



No, it was the side effect of their fight. The planet was destroyed just by them fighting on it. Even the most high - powered of all DBZ fights, Vegeto vs. Super Buu, didn't create nearly enough collateral damage to destroy a planet. You always go on about 'shockwaves destroying the environment' (which, in the case of Goku vs. Vegeta, was only a small area around them), now I show you shockwaves destroying a freaking PLANET and you say it is unimpressive. You are a hypocrite and a troll.



> Nope, This is outside Marvel Surfer would not know.



Ingoring my rebuttal and stating your initial point again is not an argument.

Surfer absorbs any kind of energy. Iron Fist is in Marvel, and uses ki. He's not the only one either.



> Wow, He searched the planet on his Surf Board, Surfer won't need to search the planet for Goku. Yet another unimportant feat not pertaining to the battle.



The fact that he can search an entire planet, and think at a fast enough rate to take in everything he sees, proves he has the speed and reflexes to beat Goku.



> This is a battle, you can not blow up the planet. That is a mere feat of desperation.



The OP never said destroying the planet wasn't allowed. But I agree with you, Surfer wouldn't need to do that to take out Goku, it would be much easier for him.



> No I use what I see in battle. Trust me Goku in Dragonball will SMASH spiderman.



Really? Because Spider-man beat Firelord, who can fly through black holes, and blow up planets, while Goku got hurt when Freiza threw rocks at him, and he couldn't even lift 40 tons! How do you like a taste of your own medicine?



> Silver Surfer absorbing the black bodies so he can use it against the Unilord. I have read some of the battle. It was a while ago.



Uh-huh. And how does this make Uni-Lord 'laughable'?



> LOL! One Punch that was like a cool breeze in the summetime. Surfer got his ass owned and Kidnapped.



Like Goku could do any better.



> No he can not.



Yes he can. I just showed you a scan proving it.



> That does not work on Goku.



Ki does not work on Surfer.

See? I can make bullshit assertions too!



> LOL! Surfer has never went back in time in a battle. You are just being desperate and loosing your mind.



Silver Surfer volume 1: The Surfer attempts to escape the barrier erected by Galactus by travelling into the far future. He finds the barrier is gone, but the universe is in ruins, conquered by a powerful mutant known as the Overlord. He fights the Overlord, but cannot defeat him, so he goes back in time and kills the Overlord as a child, erasing the dystopic timeline, then returns to Earth.

Good issue, if I do say so myself.



> No it was damaged, but if you have two fighters at point blank range fighting on Asgard it should have been demolished. Kaioshins world is magical, it survived more tha nplanet destroying blasts, even Buu's power.



No, what happened is that it was isolated from the normal universe, but wasn't smashed. And Asgard is like the kaioshin world, except more durable, since it is created and powered by far more powerful gods. You would need to be at least Celestial - level to destroy it.



> Goku can destroy a planet if he wants too.



Who's the one complaining about Surfer doing things he has never done in fights?



> Well it is nice and allthat you are trying so hard by searching for scans on the internet and you are still failing to bring info that is RELEVANT. you have yet t oaddress my questions and points.



Just because you ignore the feats that aren't in battle doesn't make them irrelevant, dumbshit. If you saw one guy win a boxing match, then you saw another guy run a mile in 10 seconds, lift a mountain, and dodge bullets, but never saw him in an actual battle, you would say the first guy would win because the second guy's feats were 'irrelevant'.

Oh, and learn to use the quote function. It's annoying to have to copy - and - paste your posts all the time.


----------



## escamoh (Aug 17, 2006)

^ holy crap that was a long post :amazed


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> Babidi tried to mind control him and Gohan. vegeta was the only person that allowed himself to be controlled.



Because he had evil in his heart. Goku didn't have any evil in his heart, so he couldn't be controlled, because Babidi's attack only worked on people with evil in their hearts. Surfer's telepathy has no such restrictions.



> I am wondering if you ever read or watched Dragonball in your life with the mindless garbage you spout and all. They can sense beings throughout the universe and in other dimensions that is really all that is IMPORTANT for battle. Hell their Senses are actually usefull in battle gives them Clairvoyance.



They can't just sense any random being from anywhere in the universe, it has to be a high enough PL the farther away it is. And your bullshit assertion that 'DBZ senses can do all that and more' was proven wrong.



> Yet that still won't work on Goku. Did you ever watch Dragonball. His spirit is too strong for that.



Bullshit. He never demonstrated any kind of telepathic defenses ever.



> Do you even know who Goku's Senses can track Surfer too. So wha tthe hell is your point? You keep spouting about Unimportant crap again.



Goku's senses can't track a speck of dust across a galaxy. Since Surfer has minimal ki, Goku will be unable to track him if he's moving at any kind of appreciable speed. Reference the fight with Dr. Gero, where he was hiding in the moutains, not even Picollo could track him.



> LOL! Bwahahaahaha, you are going to have to grab Goku to do that.



With Surfer's superior speed, reflexes, and senses, that shouldn't be a problem.



> He does not need it, cause he's stronger than the Surfer.



Except he's not. Name one thing Goku can do that Surfer can't do.



> No, that is not reacting he already is braced for that because he knows what's coming. Show me Surfer actually speedblitzing somebody, or show me Surfer fighting someone who speedblitzes like Goku ina fight. You can not



You're not getting it. If someone can move at FTL speeds, and react in nanoseconds (he was thinking an entire sentence over the space of a nanosecond), that means they think so fast that they can percieve the universe at that speed and someone as slow as Goku will be like a statue to them.



> Yeah, Goku can KO the Surfer with a Super Speed punch!



Surfer could read all the books in the Library of Congress, fly around the world 1000 times, pay a visit to Galactus, go to Zenn - La and bang Shalla Bal, and be back before the nerve impulse had even reached Goku's arm from his brain.



> No, cause that does not proove combat reflexes Combat means fighting someone in battle with speed. you have yet to show this.


\

What's the functional difference between dodging asteroids moving at super speed aiming for you and dodging punches moving at super speed aiming for you?



> Surfer does NOT take planet busting punches, he can barely take Thor's Hammer up his ass.



Are we thinking of the same Thor here? Because I'm thinking of the one with the hammer tougher than primary adamantium, who can smash planets and moons, break through a Celestial's armor, defeat Ego the Living Planet (not just a planet, a planet that fights back!) can move hundreds of times lightspeed, and has all kinds of energy, time, and dimensional manipulation powers. Thor would trash any DBZ character.



> Goku fights at Super Speed something the Surfer has trouble with



Because the Surfer's never done anything like react in nanoseconds, and can't see the past and future... 



> and Goku's punches are actually stronger than the Surfers since any of the Surfers punches in battle fail to cause Shockwaves that destroys the enviornment.



Right, because apparently an entire planet doesn't count as 'the environment', and KO'ing the likes of Ronan, the Hulk, Gladiator, etc. don't count for anything.



> Goku lifted the "DENSEST" material in the universe! I think that Classify's as stronger than the Surfer, which means Goku can KO easily.



I'm still waiting on that scan. Besides, I already explained why that doesn't count for much.




> Surfer Sucks at H2H combat something Goku specializes in.



Any evidence that he 'sucks' at it besides your own personal bias? He has defeated accomplished melee fighters like Gladiator and Thor and in Annihilation he displayed great feats of martial prowess.

Besides, Goku not only sucks at cosmic energy manipulation compared to the Surfer, but he doesn't even have that ability, and has never encountered it before. There are a billion ways Surfer could put Goku out of commision using his more esoteric powers and nothing Goku could do about it.



> Also with Goku's Senses which will allow him to see Surfer's moves, Goku wins this battle.



Cosmic awareness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ki sense. Surfer will track Goku completely, and will be moving too fast for Goku to track.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

esca3 said:
			
		

> ^ holy crap that was a long post :amazed



Someone's got to smack down Phenomen - LOL's BS.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Someone's got to smack down Phenomen - LOL's BS.



Trolls are immune to logic. Didn't you know that?


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

My theory is if I keep smacking him over the head with it he'll eventually give up, or get banned. Whichever comes first.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> My theory is if I keep smacking him over the head with it he'll eventually give up, or get banned. Whichever comes first.



Phenomenal's skin is as tough as _his_ Goku


----------



## Havoc (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenom still hasn't said how Goku/Vegeta will survive the planet they're fighting on being blown up.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Oh, and check this out, phenom:



The shockwave from Rogue's punch smashed the environment! That means she's stronger than a planetbuster!



Colossus is stronger than a planetbuster too!




This beats Goku and Vegeta's fight by a mile. Smashing an entire city from the shockwaves of their punches >>>>>>>> smashing a few rocks in a small radius.


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## Kuya (Aug 17, 2006)

Just for fun
____


or 


________


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Two of your pics are tripod logos.


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## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm not sure the matter changing powers would work, or energy absorbtion. Goku and Vegeta's ki control is perfect, and they can control any energy acting inside them. From the listing of SS's powers though, the saiyan's don't stand a chance unless they fuse. Even then they won't win, but they may get in one parting shot before the planet is destroyed or SS wills them out of existence or something. It's a wonder how anyone beats anyone else in the multiverse seeing as all the characters are overpowered. The battle system seems to be poorly thought out.


----------



## Kuya (Aug 17, 2006)

aww my gogeta pics didn't show


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## korican04 (Aug 17, 2006)

I'll give some background on some of SS's stupid feats. I haven't read all 7 pages so I don't know if they have been listed.

He's gone inside a black hole and actually fought inside against Red Shift, another herald. 
He's taken a planet destroying blast and laughed it off. In the comic ss even said (paraphrasing) "it might have incinerated a planet, but it does nothing to me" or something like that. I'll post a scan of it when I come home from vacation.
He was also imprisoned in a planet and he just blew it up.
Recently in annihilation, his blast that killed gabriel the air walker created a black hole.-_-

In contrast he has been knocked off his board by a meteor which was kinda weak, and I can post more equally retarded things that were embarrassing for the surfer. 

I guess if surfer really wanted to end this quickly he could just create a black hole and see if goku and vegita can survive that.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

blacklusterseph004 said:
			
		

> I'm not sure the matter changing powers would work, or energy absorbtion. Goku and Vegeta's ki control is perfect, and they can control any energy acting inside them.



Except the energy will no longer be inside of them once Surfer is done with them.

Besides, we know that ki can be drained in the DBZverse, with androids 19 and 20. Now imagine that power, except the Surfer can use it at range and keep it up no matter how they dodge.



> From the listing of SS's powers though, the saiyan's don't stand a chance unless they fuse. Even then they won't win, but they may get in one parting shot before the planet is destroyed or SS wills them out of existence or something. It's a wonder how anyone beats anyone else in the multiverse seeing as all the characters are overpowered. The battle system seems to be poorly thought out.



Trust me, in a universe like Marvel, there are plenty of beings that can give Norrin a good fight, or even completely kick his ass.


----------



## Bullet (Aug 17, 2006)

Surfer wins. All he needs to do is mess with Vegitto's (I'm using Vegitto) molecues, ending the match; Surfer doesn't need to worry about going h2h or shooting cosmic blasts since Vegitto isn't immune to alot of what Surfer can do to his body. 

Vegitto needs to 1) have complete control over his body and 2) be able to breath in space, then maybe this will be better fight (but he'll still lose).


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Since all of your posts were not relevent and you try so hard to search on the internet for Surfer scans and information that you never read or seen yourself. It is ashame that you get all of your info from the internet.



			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> And the fact remains that in the comic it said that Karnak caught him with his defenses down.
> 
> *Surfer was knocked out by a brick, their is no excuse for that.*
> 
> ...



Go actually watch and read DBZ. The anime shows clearly how fast they fight. Goku as a child in Dragonball can fight faster than the Surfer.

Link removed
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Master Roshi has faster Reflexes than the Surfer. Surfer gets speedblitzed all the damn time, and FREQUENTLY KO'd. Show Show me where Thanos has ever been speed blitzed in batte? Show me Thanos actually speedblitzing someone in battle? You can not. Surfer has always been Smacked by slow ass characters. Without his board and with his board it makes no difference. stop with the excuses. Goku is more than enough for the damn Surfer.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Since all of your posts were not relevent and you try so hard to search on the internet for Surfer scans and information that you never read or seen yourself. It is ashame that you get all of your info from the internet.



Blah, blah, blah. Are you done with the ad hominems and ready to make some actual arguments yet?



> Surfer was knocked out by a brick, their is no excuse for that



Except for crappy writing. You have to stop dwelling on low - end showings. Hell, for all the retcons Marvel makes that might not even be canon anymore.



> Thanos Quest is not a very good example, since it can't relate to this fight in any level.Thanos beat the Runner with the Space Gem by using the Time Gem. Doesn't relate to this fight here since he doesn't have the Time Gem in this fight.



He wouldn't have been able to use it at all if he couldn't even track the Runner at any level.



> Once again you have failed to answer my questions, you are beating around the bush.



Just because you ignore my answers doesn't mean that they don't exist.


> Go actually watch and read DBZ. The anime shows clearly how fast they fight. Goku as a child in Dragonball can fight faster than the Surfer.
> 
> *snip*
> 
> Master Roshi has faster Reflexes than the Surfer. Surfer gets speedblitzed all the damn time, and FREQUENTLY KO'd.



Yes, we've all seen those scans. You can stop posting them. The fact that you think that is anywhere near the lightspeed + reflexes of the Surfer is ludicrous.

Let's do a little math here.

The first part says they each did 6 actions in 0.2 seconds. That's 30 actions per second. The Surfer has been shown to react in the nanosecond range. A nanosecond is one billionth of a second. That makes his reaction speed, at the minimum, 33,333,333.33 times as fast as Roshi and Krillin.



> Show Show me where Thanos has ever been speed blitzed in batte? Show me Thanos actually speedblitzing someone in battle?



Strawman, Thanos doesn't speedblitz, he reacts to speedblitzes.



> You can not. Surfer has always been Smacked by characters slow ass characters. without his board and with his board it makes no difference. stop wit hthe excuses. Goku is more than enough for the damn Surfer.



You're just a moron who ignores all my arguments. You can't cherry - pick low - end feats and use them as a basis for the entire characters' abilities.

If I want to do what you did and base his combat speed off of the combat speed of people's he's fought, consider this:

Gladiator and Hyperion were once exchanging multiple punches per nanosecond.

Surfer has beaten Gladiator, and probably Hyperion too (I don't remember for sure).

Therefore Surfer is faster than that.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Blah, blah, blah. Are you done with the ad hominems and ready to make some actual arguments yet?
> 
> *My arguments been brought! You are the guy who needs to SEARCH the INTERNET for his information. Waht a shame. *
> 
> ...



My God, Do you know anything about the Gladiator, Glads has had his ass kicked many a time, make him doubt his power and he's nothing. Hell crappy Eric masterson Thor beat him.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Some Thanos stuff:

Here Thanos tags Jack of Hearts.



Before you say he's slow, check out this line from his bio:


> Jack of Hearts was exposed to a Stark International supplied Scanalyzer which was powered by a Symbiote-Energy Sump device, that derived low-level energy from sources within his body. A favorable mutagenic alteration allowed Jack of Hearts encephalic patterns to be overlaid with the artificial intelligence of the Scanalyzer. This enhanced Jack of Hearts' consciousness *enabling him to think at computer speeds*, and retain and retrieve information with computer logic plus the human brain's large storage base.



That's lightspeed reaction times. To beat lightspeed reactions, you need FTL reflexes.



Thanos reacts to the Fallen One's speedblitz. (Yes, that was a speedblitz).







More Jack of Hearts.

Remember, this guy fights at lightspeed.



Thanos works out by taking out whole planets of warriors.

If he was as slow as you say, it would take him centuries.



Thanos (Pre - Death) uses his reflexes to fend off speedblitzes from multiple enemies, including Drax and Captain Marvel.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> My arguments been brought! You are the guy who needs to SEARCH the INTERNET for his information. Waht a shame.



Your arguments are retarded, just like you.



> Its bad writing huh? Does sthat mean that every fight they ever had, no.. no.. every fight surfer has EVER had (with someone who can't travel as fast as him tagging him) is also bad writing? Bahahahhahaaaaaa, half of the surfers entire series of book must be bad writing then.



Yet Surfer has had thousands of fights in his 40+ years of comic history, and you've only brought up 2 or 3.....



> Oh, Really I did not realize you needed fast reflexes to use the Time gem.



You do if your opponent is speedblitzing you at who - knows - how - many billions of times the speed of light.



> Your math has no barring. Show me the Surfer actually coming close to that COMBAT speed in BATTLE or otherwise be queit.



What you don't understand is that if you can REACT to things in the nanosecond range, that means anything, whether it be cosmic harnesses, asteroids, or enemies attacking you.

Say you can react at nanosecond timescales. You're being attacked by a guy who moves at half lightspeed. In one nanosecond, he would appear to travel only 15 centimeters. You would literally be seeing him in slow motion.

Your game is you just ignore non - battle feats, despite the fact that they prove you wrong, and when shown battle feats, you insult the power of the opponent, bringing up low showings, when shown high showings of that opponent, you ignore them if they're not battle feats, and if they are battle feats, you insult the opponent again, bringing up low showings, etc. It's a never ending cycle of dishonest assholery.



> Nonsense, Thanos NEVER gets speedblitzed you have yet to show me this.
> you know why Thanos never gets speedblitzed? because the damn writers are on his side.



No, only Jim Starlin.

And what you don't understand is that speed can be conveyed many ways in comics, it's a matter of art style. If you see a panel with some guy punching a dozen times in one frame, and another comic with several panels of a guy punching one punch at a time per frame, they could easily be the same speed, or the latter could be faster. It's a stylistic preference. Hell, I can show you scans of Spider-man speedblitzing with DBZ - like visual effects. Does that mean he is faster than DBZ characters?

BTW, Toriyama pampers Goku all the time too. There were a billion points in the fight where Freiza could have easily killed him, but he didn't.



> My God, Do you know anything about the Gladiator, Glads has had his ass kicked many a time, make him doubt his power and he's nothing. Hell crappy Eric masterson Thor beat him.



See what I mean? I hadn't even gotten to this part of your post when I typed the first part, yet I knew you would pull some shit like this. I suppose it doesn't count when Gladiator smashed a planet with a punch, flew through a star, contained a supernova explosion, flew at 100 times lightspeed, had the aforementioned fight with Hyperion, and all the other crazy shit he's done that's way out of DBZ's league? No, because he lost to Masterson. In fact, I haven't even read that fight, so I bet you're deliberately leaving out important details.

Let's apply your logic to the real world for a second:

Naval battleships have been defeated by grenades in their armory. So therefore naval battleships are no more powerful than a hand grenade.

Dogs have beaten bears in fights on occasion. So therefore bears are weaker than dogs.

People survived near ground - zero of the Hiroshima bomb. So therefore a 15 kiloton nuke isn't powerful enough to kill a human.

Chess World Champion Mikhail Botvinnik was once beaten by an amateur player. So that means Botvinnik was weaker than an average amateur player.

Are you beginning to see a problem here?


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

_Oh, and check this out, phenom:



The shockwave from Rogue's punch smashed the environment! That means she's stronger than a planetbuster!

Link removed

Colossus is stronger than a planetbuster too!

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This beats Goku and Vegeta's fight by a mile. Smashing an entire city from the shockwaves of their punches >>>>>>>> smashing a few rocks in a small radius._

I should mention the Neo/Smith exchanges in Matrix Revolutions.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Some Thanos stuff:
> 
> Here Thanos tags Jack of Hearts.
> 
> ...



LOL! you will go to any length to say that Thanos has Faster than light Reflexes, even try to say the Jack of Hearts has lightspeed reflexes which is wrong. No where in the COMIC or his BIO that you showed states that he is lightspeed, you know why because he is not. Thanos was getting handled in most of your scans, not a very good showing. Thinking at Computer speeds does not mean you have lightspeed reflexes, I guess your going to say Braniac has lightspeed reflexes their is a diference.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Please do.

Really, we need to start a poll to get phenomenol banned from the battledome.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> LOL! you will go to any length to say that Thanos has Faster than light Reflexes, even try to say the Jack of Hearts has lightspeed reflexes which is wrong. No where in the COMIC or his BIO that you showed states that he is lightspeed, you know why because he is not.



"He thinks at computer speeds". A computer processes things at the speed of light. What's not to get?



> Thanos was getting handled in most of your scans, not a very good showing. Thinking at Computer speeds does not mean you have lightspeed reflexes, I guess your going to say Braniac has lightspeed reflexes their is a diference.



Brainiac can think at lightspeed. In fact I even remember it being stated in a comic.

Oh, BTW, take a look at this:




Whoa, huh?

I challenge you to show me one panel from the DBZ manga that has a character appearing to dart around faster than that.

Don't ignore this, because if you don't address it, I'll keep posting the challenge in every post.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Your arguments are retarded, just like you.
> 
> *Did you research that off of the internet as well.*
> 
> ...



Nope, cause all of those feats mean nothing in a battle because they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength. Besides what does all of those feats prove when they don't mean crap in battle? HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than feats.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> "He thinks at computer speeds". A computer processes things at the speed of light. What's not to get?
> 
> *He does not REACT at those speeds, learn the difference.*
> 
> ...



Why challenge that when the comic panel just shows Spiderman jumping from building to building?  You can clearly see where he is going and yet Spiderman is really going nowhere. That still does not even come close to MASTER ROSHI's battle speed.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> Did you research that off of the internet as well.



No, it was quite obvious.



> Nope, go look at the characters that I brought up.. most of them you did not even know about.



You only mentioned one character I had never heard of, Millenius. He wasn't in Marvel Directory online and a google search took a while to find a reference. He's pretty obscure.



> Surfer does not do that.



I was referring to the Runner. Pay attention.



> Surfer still in BATTLE gets tagged by Champion.



And wasn't really hurt at all. Here's the thing: Relatively slow people tag relatively fast people in comics all the time. That doesn't mean they're not fast.

The Flash has been tagged by guys at only human reaction speed. Does that mean the Flash can't move fast, react fast, and speedblitz? Of course not. It's just the way comics work.



> This is a battle isn't it? All of your non battle feats are UNIMPORTANT! like Surfer changing clothes in a blink of an eye. Bring some substance.



How is Goku going to survive when the planet is blown up?

How is he going to survive when his body is turned into a black hole?

How is he going to survive when his molecules are transmuted?

How is he going to survive when he is punched with planet - crushing strength?

How is he going to hurt Surfer when Surfer has taken attacks the likes of which Goku could only dream about and survived?



> And? getting smacked all the damn time by slow characters is no excuse.



Let's turn this around.

Take android 16. He has no speed feats to speak of. Yet he was still able to tag, and almost defeat, Cell. Of course you'll say "He was obviously fast because he could keep up with other DBZ characters". But that's circular reasoning. You're basically saying that because he could keep up with DBZ characters, he's fast, and he's fast because he could keep up with DBZ characters. That's no proof.



> Agreed.



That's a word I thought I would never hear from you. Now all that's left is "I was wrong, I concede."



> Nope, cause all of those feats mean nothing in a battle because they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength.



Do you even know what class 100 means? It means 100 OR HIGHER. Class 100 could beat 100.1, or 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999^999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999



> HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than feats.



Because Havok doesn't use superstrength. He uses plasma attacks.

That's like saying since an out - of - shape guy could kill a weightlifter with a gun, that means that the weightlifter's lifting feats don't matter for anyhing in any kind of fight.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> He does not REACT at those speeds, learn the difference



If you can think that fast, you can react that fast. They go hand - in - hand.



> Why challenge that when the comic panel just shows Spiderman jumping from building to building? You can clearly see where he is going and yet Spiderman is really going nowhere. That still does not even come close to MASTER ROSHI's battle speed.



Really?

Let's see Roshi's speed again: as I stated, 30 actions per second.

Practicing a bit in my living room, I can throw about 4 punches per second.

That makes Roshi 7.5 times faster than me.

Looking at that first scan, we see 27 instances of Spider-man, covering a total distance of (eyeballing it), 200 meters. For all of them to be percieved at once, it would have had to have happened in at most 0.3 seconds (that's about the time I measured to get an afterimage by moving my hand quickly).

That puts Spider-man at 666 and 2/3 meters per second.

Since a punch extends my arm to about half a meter long, that makes my punching speed 2 meters per second. Roshi's punching speed would thus be 15 meters per second.

Guess what?

That makes Spider-man over 44.4 times faster!

Or, you know, it could just be an art style.

You can't judge speed merely by the art style. Many of the scans I showed you had battles happening at relativistic or FTL speeds.

Oh, and I just thought of another thing: When Surfer fought Redshift inside the black hole, they HAD to have been fighting FTL, since if you're inside a black hole you'll get frozen in time if you move slower than light.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> You only mentioned one character I had never heard of, Millenius. He wasn't in Marvel Directory online and a google search took a while to find a reference. He's pretty obscure.
> 
> *That means you need to read more comics!*
> 
> ...



What horrible analogies, Mike you need to stop right now it is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. Go read and find out what a fight really is and how Surfer does in them.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> If you can think that fast, you can react that fast. They go hand - in - hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is all wrong! in DC and Marvel it would state if the speed is light or faster also the panels of Spiderman are actually showing his movements and how he gets from one place to another. So stop your crap, you have yet to answer my questions and their is still no excuse for the Surfer getting walloped by slow ass characetrs and FREQUENTLY being knocked out. That does NOT happen to Goku.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> That means you need to read more comics!



And I would do so, except I have no time as I'm constantly having to refute your bullshit because no one else will do it. I've got the rest of DC 1 million to get through, Batman: Hush, Infinite Crisis, Annihilation, Civil War, I'm way behind.



> The Surfer is not the Flash! The Flash does get tagged on a COUPLE OCCASIONS, but usually Flash gets tagged because of traps and set-ups. Unlike the Surfer who gets Straight OUTPUNCHED by champion.



And it didn't really hurt him. Surfer has shown the tendency to let his opponents attack him in order to guage their power (for example the fight against Savage Hulk I posted). His fighting style, when calm, is kind of like Kurama from YYH.



> Is their planet blowing up? He can teleport to King Kai's.



If he is even able to realize what's happening fast enough. And if he does, Surfer goes there and blows that one up, too, and repeat until he has no more familiar places to hide.



> Show me when he turns someone into a black hole?



Annihilation: Silver Surfer #1. He did it to Air - Walker. The scan is somewhere on this thread, I think.



> Surfer does not do that to Organic matter, show me or be queit.



I did, but you said it didn't count since it wasn't in battle.



> LOL! Surfer does not have planet crushing strength. That is fanboyism.



Then how can he spar with Hulk, Thanos, Gladiator, Thor, Ronan, Champion etc. ?



> Oh you mean being knocked out by punches that are lesser than Goku's like Thing and Thor.



I already explained that the Thing thing was retconned. Thor's punches are much greater than Goku, Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent and tossed it off the Earth, that thing was huge and must have weighed as much as a planet.

What I'm really talking about is surviving shots from Thanos, Odin, Tyrant, Omega (Galactus clone), Galactus himself, other Heralds, black holes, white holes (which are like black holes in reverse, more energy than quasars, being in one would be like getting hit with 10 galaxy - destroying blasts per second at least), Thor's blasts (which are incredibly powerful, if you don't think so, ask that Celestial whose armor he cracked). Tons of more examples.



> Android 16 was stronger than Androids 17 and 18 that showed Super speed in combat, that is simple.



Surfer is stronger than Quicksilver, who has showed super speed in combat. That's simple.



> What horrible analogies, Mike you need to stop right now it is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. Go read and find out what a fight really is and how Surfer does in them.



I've read quite a few Silver Surfer comics, thank you very much. He's one of my favorite superheroes.

And you can't simply state my analogy is invalid without explaining why it is invalid.

BTW, I have to go soon, so this might be my last post for a few hours.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> This is all wrong! in DC and Marvel it would state if the speed is light or faster also the panels of Spiderman are actually showing his movements and how he gets from one place to another.



Show me a scan of Goku speedblitzing someone, I could easily say the same thing.



> So stop your crap, you have yet to answer my questions and their is still no excuse for the Surfer getting walloped by slow ass characetrs and FREQUENTLY being knocked out. That does NOT happen to Goku.



Because there's only one kind of fighting style in DBZ.

Goku's never faced a brick, or a pure speedster, or an energy manipulator (I mean like a cosmic one), or a sorceror (Babidi didn't fight him directly), or an elemental (GT is crap and doesn't count), or a psionic, or a pure TK. Marvel has just so many more fighting styles, things like this are bound to happen. You have no way of knowing how Goku would react. The closest thing he's faced to an energy manipulator was android 19, who he had a lot of trouble with.

Besides, if I want to play your game, how about the time Majin Vegeta knocked out Goku? Vegeta's punch was moving no faster than an average human punch, but Goku didn't even know what hit him. Sure, he had his defense down and was looking the other way, but remember the Yakon fight? He can track opponents by the vibrations in the air, and also sense hostile intent of enemy's ki. He should have seen that coming, if he is as fast and skilled as you say he is.

Also I could point out Gohan and Krillin vs. Guldo. Guldo was by no means fast, and his time freeze attack was only a stopgap measure. Yet he managed to target them with his paralysis field and get attacks in.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> And I would do so, except I have no time as I'm constantly having to refute your bullshit because no one else will do it. I've got the rest of DC 1 million to get through, Batman: Hush, Infinite Crisis, Annihilation, Civil War, I'm way behind.
> 
> *Yeah you do that! Also read up some more on your precious Superman.. *
> 
> ...



Yeah I am going to go back to practice anyway I won't be back till tonight.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

_Show me when he turns someone into a black hole?  

Annihilation: Silver Surfer #1. He did it to Air - Walker. The scan is somewhere on this thread, I think._

I can confirm this.

Silver Sufer: Annihilation #1.

Rather than having Gabriel the Air-Walker's body captured, experimented on, and disgraced, Silver Surfer let out an energy discharge which resulted into a black hole. Confirmed by Thanos, and Skreets.

And this was before Galactus' forgiveness in SS: A #4.

_Nope, that was the damn planet._

You're thinking of Silver Sufer: Annihilation #4, where he fought Ravenous and the resulting planet they were on was destroyed due to their energies.


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## Galt (Aug 17, 2006)

Dang, CBG, you beat me to it.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> Yeah you do that! Also read up some more on your precious Superman..



I have recently done just that. Interesting story with the Cyborg. Makes me want to put him in a battledome thread.



> LOL!, He gets hurt by Champion..



He was knocked back, not actually hurt. And getting hurt by Champion is hardly shameful, he's one of the strongest guys in the universe. A punch from Champion would flatten any DBZ character.



> Surfer can not go to heaven Sorry!



He can travel to any dimension, that's proved in scans I posted. Besides, before he blew up the planet he could do to Goku what he did to Lunatik, bind his life - force to the planet so he can't leave without dying. For example, Asgard is the Norse heaven and he goes there all the time.



> Nope, that was the damn planet.



Already addressed by CBG.



> None of those have Planet destroying punches? what are you smoking! all of them had their asses kicked by lesser beings.



And low showings automatically invalidate higher showings, right?

Hulk:




Planet destroying punch.

Thanos:




Planet destroying fight by their physical shockwaves. This was Pre - Death.

Gladiator:

Bleach songs
Bleach songs

This is pretty much the definition of planet - destroying punches. This is the kind of stuff that would make Vegeta moan in envy.

Thor:

Link removed

Fighting Hercules, he has enough strength to knock the planet out of orbit.




Midgard Serpent.

You tell me that thing didn't weigh much and I'll kill you.

Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed

The day a DBZ character can do that is the day I join the Church of Scientology.


Link removed

Not just a planet, but a planet that fights back!

Link removed

Thor helps lift a multi - million ton object.



Knocks a guy into orbit.



Thor's hammer is at least lightspeed.



FTL homing attack. This would do in any DBZ character.



Thor goes 3 times the speed of light.



Mjolnir has the power of 1000 suns.



Here's Thor's version of the Mageddon Warhead feat.
















Fights Surfer and Adam Warlock. Warlock says he moves 'like lightning'. This was Warrior Madness Thor.

I suppose you're going to say that Adam Warlock is weak, now?



Thor swings Mjolnir at twice the speed of light and time travels.




Speed feat plus combat transmutation.



Spirit bomb, eat your heart out.




Thor owns Hyperion.

There's more where that came from. Thor is a force to be reckoned with.

Ronan:



Creates black holes with a thought.

Champion:





I trust you've seen this one.

It's bullshit to say these guys don't have planetbusting strength.



> Yet Lifting does not mean a damn thing because I can post where Thor gets his DAMN arm Broken by a weakr character. Where is all of that lifting strength now.



It doesn't just disappear, as you seem to think. Which 'weaker character' is this anyway? Besides, I explained that you can't concentrate on low - end showings and ignore high - end showings. That's dishonest. Every character has low - end showings, they don't count for more than the middle or high ones.



> LOL! Surfer does not Survive any shots from Most of those names in battle, especially how he was knocked out by a casual blast.



*sigh*

Thanos:






He's even speedblitzing Thanos.

Odin:

Link removed

Sure he was KO'd, but he survived. More than can be said for any DBZ character that would get hit with that blast.

Tyrant:

Link removed

Galactus:



Morg:

Link removed










Planet destroying and nice combat speed.

Firelord:








So help me god if you mention Spider-man I will not be held accountable for my actions.

Redshift:




White and black holes:



Thor:

Link removed


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

> Yeah not faster than Quicksilver in combat! Speed and OVERALL power their is a difference.



16 was not faster than 17 and 18 in combat! Speed and OVERALL power is their difference.



> Yeah I am going to go back to practice anyway I won't be back till tonight.



You still have not explained why my analogy was invalid.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 17, 2006)

Oh, and here.

Surfer takes hits from Tyrant:


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## superbatman86 (Aug 17, 2006)

Surfer wins.You know if I thought they had a chance I'd argue for G and V but Surfer can do everything that they can do and SO MUCH more.Black hole anyone?Surfer 9.9/10 for the off chance that they get a lucky and I mean extremely lucky MASSIVE first shot in.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 17, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Hulk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thor's slow ass has smacked the Surfer 3 times. Not a really good showing for the Surfer. You have failed to show me Surfer's combat speed and how he;s going to beat Goku. Surfer will get KO'd like he always does.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

Curious, what would the Saiyans do against a black hole?


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Thor's slow ass has smacked the Surfer 3 times. Not a really good showing for the Surfer. You have failed to show me Surfer's combat speed and how he;s going to beat Goku. Surfer will get KO'd like he always does.



Ignoring the evidence as usual. Eh Phenomenol? 
Silver Surfer

Real name: Norrin Radd
Occupation: Adventurer
Identity: Public
Legal status: Citizen of Zenn-La with no criminal record.
Place of birth: Zenn-La Group
Affiliation: Former member of the DEFENDERS
First appearance: FANTASTIC FOUR, Vol. 1 #48

History: Norrin Radd - former hearald of the mega-tyrant Galactus, offer his life to protect his native planet, placing him in the service of Galactus as a silver suited sentinal. As a galaxy cruising protector endowned with superhuman strength, he is able to control and direct cosmic energies, with enough force to destroy a city. After visiting Earth, the Surfer finally betrayed Galactus and refused to supply his world-devouring appetite. His punishement was confinement to earth - but he escaped and currently soars the starways as a universal protector.

Height: 6 ft. 4 in.
Weight: Unknown
Eyes: White
Hair: None

Known superhuman powers: The Silver Surfer can endow himself with Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons. He possesses the Power Cosmic which he can use to generate powerful force blasts or to rearrange molecules. The Surfer travels on a "surfboard" which responds to his mental commands and is as indestructible as he is. He has a Cosmic Awareness which allows him to feel energy around him. 

 Here's a fine display of Silver Surfer's speed fighting against Super Skrull.   If you reject this evidence, you're a bigger fool than I thought and in denial.


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## Galt (Aug 18, 2006)

Nah.  He'll just claim it's unreadable.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 18, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Nah.  He'll just claim it's unreadable.



I have bad eyes and could still tell that Silver Surfer's fast. Phenomenol's one guy you could so easily hate


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## Phenomenol (Aug 18, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Ignoring the evidence as usual. Eh Phenomenol?
> Silver Surfer
> 
> Real name: Norrin Radd
> ...



Oh look it is rild, the guy who plays make believe. You don't know much, it's not your fault.

I don't need bios from the net I have read and own some of his comics...
If you knew anything about the damn Surfer you would know that he is on his board TRAVELING!!! using Speed. He is not throwing punches and kicks at Super Speed, do you know what that is? it's called Speedblitzing, melee. That is the reason why people like Thanos and Karnak hand the Surfer his ass all the time. The Surfer is terrible at physical combat.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Oh look it is rild, the guy who plays make believe. You don't know much, it's not your fault.
> 
> I don't need bios from the net I have read and own some of his comics...
> If you knew anything about the damn Surfer you would know that he is on his board TRAVELING!!! using Speed. He is not throwing punches and kicks at Super Speed, do you know what that is? it's called Speedblitzing, melee. That is the reason why people like Thanos and Karnak hand the Surfer his ass all the time. The Surfer is terrible at physical combat.



Fast punches and kicks aren't the only thing that decides a battle.

 You don't know a damn thing about DC,Marvel,DBZ or any damn thing else you misinformed fool. 

Kakarot didn't win just by punches and kicks alone you egotistical jackass. Kakarot used technique and strategy. 

You brainless fool Prolly watched a few episode and decided you a expert. You are a embarrasment to DBZ and anime fans everywhere. 

Punches and kicks didn't beat Radditz, technique and strategy and teamwork did.

 Kakarot didn't defeat Vegeta with Punches and kicks, technique strategy and teamwork did. You are not fit to repensent DBZ on this borad Fool.


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## BattousaiMS (Aug 18, 2006)

Surfer is going to win. He has the ability to manipulate DNA and body cell with his cosmic powers, so all he has to do is twist poor Sayiens DNA into  something harmless and he wins.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 18, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Fast punches and kicks aren't the only thing that decides a battle.
> 
> You don't know a damn thing about DC,Marvel,DBZ or any damn thing else you misinformed fool.
> 
> ...



I am wondering if this guy has ever read a comic in his entire life with all the mindless garbage you post and all... 

Go read this entire thread and you can see what your saying is my sentiments exactly. Endless Mike is the one saying "Surfer will just punch Goku with a planet destroying punch and Goku's dead." I am simply saying it is not that easy in battle. their is more to just being strong and flying fast.

If you would read the damn thread and stop making insults, especially if you don't know a damn thing about DBZ or the Silver Surfer so STFU!!!


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Nope, cause all of those feats mean nothing in a battle because they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength. Besides what does all of those feats prove when they don't mean crap in battle? HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than feats.



Crap single-minded theories like this make you look like a fool 





> Surfer does NOT take planet busting punches, he can barely take Thor's Hammer up his ass. Goku fights at Super Speed something the Surfer has trouble with and Goku's punches are actually stronger than the Surfers since any of the Surfers punches in battle fail to cause Shockwaves that destroys the enviornment. Goku lifted the "DENSEST" material in the universe! I think that Classify's as stronger than the Surfer, which means Goku can KO easily. Surfer Sucks at H2H combat something Goku specializes in. Also with Goku's Senses which will allow him to see Surfer's moves, Goku wins this battle.


 What makes you think that the fight would last long enough to get to Hand to hand? 


> Well it is nice and allthat you are trying so hard by searching for scans on the internet and you are still failing to bring info that is RELEVANT. you have yet t oaddress my questions and points.


 What makes your info relevant? Pages from the comic seem relevant enough to me and everybody else but you. 



> Once again you can STOP searching the net for scans, because you are not refuting any of my points. All of these scans are unimportant, they have no relevence in abttle. Please you are wasting your and more importantly my time with these Feats that you are jizzing over about


 What will refute your point to you? And the scans are very important. They show the surfer In battle. 



> These are all nice but most of them do not help Silver surfer in battle, I am glad you are a Silver surfer fan and were able to find these scans off of the internet but you have yet to address the points that I was makinging about you Surfer. You still have yet to refute my points then you post stuff that does not help.


what will help then? I think you're full of shit


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

> Wow, too bad Goku and even Piccolo can blow Planets up with their finger. Piccolo could do this to the hulk.... *snip scans*



With ki, not physical strength. You claimed the Hulk didn't have planet - destroying punches, I proved you wrong. Don't change the subject, asshat.

So wait, you're now comparing Picollo to the ASGARDIAN DESTROYER?

Excuse me for a second:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    

Do you know ANYTHING about the Destroyer? It was designed by the council of Skyfathers to fight CELESTIALS. It's indestructible, and it took a combined blast from a host of Celestials to put it down. Its hand beams have melted Thor's enchanted Uru hammer (which is stronger than Primary Adamantium).

It can travel between dimensions, and, except for the Celestial incident, the only way it was ever beaten was by detaching the soul that's animating it.

The Destroyer would brutally slaughter the entire DBZ universe.

Besides, this is a red herring anyway, since you claimed Hulk didn't have planet - destroying punches, and I proved you wrong. He's also survived planet - destroying forces.



> Those are not punches that destroyed the planet? Read the scan again all they did was charge at each other their energies destroyed the planet. Thanos never destroyed planets with his punches.



It was the shockwaves from their collision and power that destroyed the planet.

Goku and Vegeta (in canon) never destroyed a planet with anything.

Even the strongest fight in DBZ, Vegeto vs. Super Buu, didn't come anywhere close to destroying the whole planet just by fighting on it.

Thanos takes planet - busting punches all the time and laughs them off, then punches the guy right back and hurts them.



> LOL! Gladiator cannot outmuscle the exact same Hyperion who failed to lift 300 tons--under the same writer who had him stalemate Gladiator PHYSICALLY. Or how about I post Eric Masterson Thor who never destroyed a planet kicking Glads ass.



Will you fucking stop it already! You can't just bring up low - end showings and act like they completely negate the medium and high - end showings. Every character has low - end showings, fucktard. They don't mean that's the extent of the character's power.



> Scans don't work.



Try these:

	[Shinsen-Subs] FLAG - 02 [0336FE7F].avi
	[Shinsen-Subs] FLAG - 02 [0336FE7F].avi



> Goku did lift the "DENSEST" material in the universe.



Which you have yet to prove with a scan, and how does that compare to reforming the moon and trapping an Elder of the Universe inside of it?



> LOL! Hell.. Ego the living planet Goku will vaporize him.



And your proof is..... where?

Oh, wait, that's right, you pulled it out of your ass. Ego can create antibodies as powerful as top - tiers with class 100 strength. His psychic powers make him a threat to Galactus. Ego can suck the energy out of entire stars and beings (just like Goku). He can shapeshift and travel faster than light.

Before Goku even realized what was going on he would have his brain fried and his ki sucked dry.



> Bwhahahahaa.. Thor needs help thats not a feat.



In that case, Goku defeating Raditz, Vegeta, Captain Ginyu, Freiza, and Buu are not feats.



> Wow, Spiderman could of knocked that weakling into orbit.



Spider-man is class 15! You are just getting more and more retarded the longer this goes on. To throw a humanoid body into orbit requires more strength than was ever demonstrated by anyone on DBZ. Ever.



> LOL! like I said Thor is too slow, he gets pounded by the Hulk and Juggernaut after all. Thor has trouble keeping up with the Mongoose!!! for pete sake. Superman I can understand but Thor? Hell no. Yes the hammer is formidable but Goku isn't getting hit by someone SLOWER then him. Thats a theme throughout Dragonball. Besides getting hit with Mjolnir is no different to getting hit with planet destroying energy. They both Hurt. Goku will smack Thor.



Way to ignore my scans. Thor can use Mjolnir as a homing attack at FTL speed. Goku can't dodge that. In addition, Thor has been hit with far more power than Goku could ever dream of. Low - end showings do not make medium and high - end showings just go away.

Take a look at this:

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It was a weakened Galactus, but it's still beyond any DBZ character's capability.

As for Mongoose, here's how Mjolnir comes in handy:

	[Shinsen-Subs] FLAG - 02 [0336FE7F].avi

And this is what will happen if Goku tries a powerful ki blast:

	[Shinsen-Subs] FLAG - 02 [0336FE7F].avi

Thor drains a god powerless:




Thor fires antimatter:




Thor can send people to other dimensions:



Thor stalemates Zeus, a friggin' Skyfather!









Thor can paralyze people:




Oh, and you say Superman is so much faster? Watch as Mjolnir evens the field in JLA/Avengers (canon)



Thor fights Surtur, a Skyfather - level being, who even Odin is afraid of:









> Spider-man can dance around Thor as well *snip*



Spider-man has precog and better agility. It's not like he was able to actually hurt or beat Thor, anyway.



> LOL! It's Bull **** to say that is Champions own punches that was all with the POWER GEM in Thanos QuestNOT under his own strength. None of the scans except the Hulk has planet punching strength.



Think again.

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And did you already forget Thor's planet - moving and smashing strength, or Gladiator's planet - busting punches, or Thanos' planet smashing shockwaves?


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

> Damn that was not even a fight! people were interupting what horrible scans.Thanos has faster than light reflexes huh oh wait...*snip*



Of course it was a fight! Surfer and Thanos were going at each other, and Surfer took hits from Thanos (which you said he couldn't do).

And just because Cap dodged one punch, in a fight where Thanos specifically said he was just trying to put on a performance, means his reflexes suck? What about all the times he tagged FTL people?



> LOL! Surfer is weak, and your scan does not work



Link removed

Surfer is anything but weak, he takes a full - power hit from Odin, the strongest Skyfather, that would have instantly killed any DBZ character, but Surfer survives.



> LOL! The planet did not get destroyed, Morg beat the crap out of SS BEFORE he augmented himself in that pool. So those scans are irrelevent



He didn't augment himself at all in that fight. And you argued that Surfer couldn't take hits from other Heralds, I proved he could. And what do you mean the planet wasn't destroyed!? We could clearly see it coming apart, and then Surfer and Morg, who were on the planet in the last page, were in the middle of an asteroid field. You're just trolling. You probably know you've lost already but just don't want to give up.



> You guessed it! Firelords been beaten by Spider-man!



You.... you.... there are just no words for you.

You know what? I'm reporting you to the mods, and I'm encouraging everyone else who reads this to do so as well.

And Firelord is NOT weak. One low showing doesn't make him weak.

Nova, who is the weakest Herald, destroyed a star easily.

Check this out:



Destroys a meteor the size of a small planet.




Demonstrates cosmic senses, easy travels through an energy storm, fires a blast with the power of a star, and gets blasted into the moon but is unhurt.




Absorbs the energy of a miniature supernova



Protects the FF from the heat of re-entry.




He can sense a speck of dust moving a million light - years away, and decloaks a hidden planet.



Firelord can detect lifesigns on a whole planet and detect that Thanos left.



Can detect a speck of ice on an asteroid 2 million light - years away.







Fights Thor to a draw, taking lot of hits. Good durability.





Ties Thor again, taking hits, matching Thor's energy projection, and deflecting Mjolnir.

W.I.T.C.H. Fanlisting

Link removed





Firelord beats Thor, and also reveals that he can easily dodge comets and meteor swarms, has the power of a million suns, is an expert in all kind of terrain from 1000 worlds, matches Thor's energy projection again, and takes more hits.





Easily defeats Thor and Hercules.



W.I.T.C.H. Fanlisting




Takes a beating from Drax but refuses to fight back. When he finally does, he can't follow through because he got distracted. Drax rips apart stars with his bare hands.




Speedblitzes Loki.




Was beating Quasar until Cap told him to surrender.






Easily defeats the X-men, and only using a small fraction of his power.


> Thor's slow ass has smacked the Surfer 3 times. Not a really good showing for the Surfer. You have failed to show me Surfer's combat speed and how he;s going to beat Goku. Surfer will get KO'd like he always does.



Thor is anything but slow, I already proved that to you. He can attack at multiple times lightspeed, faster than any DBZ character. Did you miss the part when he threw his hammer at lightspeed, and then at twice lightspeed, and then swung it at lightspeed, and when Adam Warlock (not a slow guy himself) said that Thor moved 'like lightning'?

I proved to you he could take hits from all those people you said he couldn't.

There's nothing Goku can do that would even scratch Surfer, considering the stuff he's taken and survived. Surfer has a billion ways to kill Goku, and Goku has no way to kill Surfer.

Physical attacks? Would do nothing against his durability, or he could just dodge them or phase through them.

Ki blasts? Absorbed, dodged, taken harmlessly, redirected, phased through, etc.

Whereas Surfer could do any of the following:

Blow up the planet (possibly binding Goku's life - force to it first)

Transmute Goku.

Suck all the energy out of him.

Vaporize him with a cosmic blast (if necessary drawing energy from the stars and planets to power it up).

Send him to another dimension, one that is impossible for him to escape.

Telepathically attack his mind, killing him or knocking him out.

Turn him or the planet into a black hole.

Make the sun go supernova.

KO or kill him with one punch (the kind of punches that hurt Tyrant, Thor, Ronan, other Heralds, Hulk, etc. who have way greater durability than Goku).

Take him into somewhere dangerous in space.

etc.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Oh look it is rild, the guy who plays make believe. You don't know much, it's not your fault.
> 
> I don't need bios from the net I have read and own some of his comics...
> If you knew anything about the damn Surfer you would know that he is on his board TRAVELING!!! using Speed. He is not throwing punches and kicks at Super Speed, do you know what that is? it's called Speedblitzing, melee. That is the reason why people like Thanos and Karnak hand the Surfer his ass all the time. The Surfer is terrible at physical combat.



That's purely based on art style.

You don't know how fast the fights are actually going, in space that fight could have easily been relativistic speed.

Look at this, pay particular attention to the scene that begins at 0:56.

That's more punches in a shorter amount of time than any DBZ character has shown, ever.

By your logic that means Luffy could speedblitz DBZ characters.


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## Spidey (Aug 18, 2006)

wow, thanks for all the scans Mike, a lot of those are new to me. It's even more obvious how quickly the saiyans would be raped.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2006)

With all these scans here EM, you could contribute them to the Powers Directory.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

Here is a summary on Thor's powers, with comic references:

Link removed

Pay special attention to this part:

*Note: There?s been much debate by fans all-over regarding the difficulty that Mongoose presents on Thor due to his great speed. However, there shouldn?t be any debate concerning any threat that Mongoose can pose on Thor, since it?s firmly established that: 1) Thor can see objects, or beings moving at fantastic speeds, and 2) Thor can react even faster to defend himself against these specific threats. If artillery bullets can go from anywhere from 600 ft. per second to more than 5,000 ft. a second, why would anyone believe that Thor would be in trouble against someone like Mongoose, who could never be hope to attain such speed? Thor said, as the speed of his hammer physically deflected Mongoose, "My mystic mallet can attain velocities which are BEYOND your ability to grasp!" In other words, let us assume that a Marvel character like Gladiator, who can?t possibly defeat Thor from a distance, decides to use super-speed on him, he might just as well be committing suicide- considering how dangerously powerful Thor?s hammer truly is, plus the hammer could reach velocity that exceeds well-above the speed of light. The Kinetic effect would be UTTERLY devastating. Picture an object that weights practically thousands of tons (The Hulk couldn?t even budge the hammer when he tried to lifted using the Full strength of both his arms, and the people of Pangoria?s mightiest Cranes couldn?t budge it either) whirling at fantastic speed and striking someone, or something coming at incredible speed as well; to put it simply (considering the latter), whatever the hammer hits, it DESTROYS.*

Oh, and some stuff on Gladiator.

Here we see Gladiator temporarily matching Tyrant's galaxy - destroying energy powers:



FTL speed and enhanced eyesight:

Link removed

More eyesight:

Link removed

Eyebeams hotter than a star. (Reed is using a solid hologram to trick him).

Link removed
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Defeats Hyperion, planet - smashing gravitic forces collide, great distances covered in seconds:







Vs. Ego. Note how it's stated that Ego is far more massive than a normal planet, has great durability and energy projection. Shi'ar ships are powerful and in fleets can usually destroy planets. We also see Gladiator speedblitzing at high relativistic speed, and Surfer taking out some of the Shi'ar ships.

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Binary's power is unlimited, but not to Gladiator:

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Gladiator survives and contains a half - solar system destroying blast (perhaps full solar - system destroying since it was on the edge of the system) and then flies at 100c.

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Detecting a warning from hundreds of light - years away:

Link removed

Flies through a red giant star 100,000,000 miles in diameter, he is completely unhurt and says it is 'so simple a challenge'.

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Breaks Quasar's quantum band constructs:

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Fight on a planet, through space, said to have the potential to destroy worlds and the stamina to fight for years. Note that the physical shockwaves threaten the planet.

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Carries a huge spaceship:

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Laughs off Human Torch's nova flames:

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Takes all - out, full power hits from Thor and a blast from Sif that is as powerful as Odin's attacks. He's fine afterwards:

Link removed
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Speedblitz at high relativistic speed:

Link removed

Follows a Skrull ship at FTL speeds through hyperspace:

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He can shift himself into hyperspeed to move and react superfast.

Link removed

Speedblitz:

Link removed

More speed:

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Blitzes Thor:

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Fights Thor and while he and the FF are using tech to move at hyperspeed where it appears that everything is frozen, Gladiator reaches these speeds on his own:

Link removed
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## SoulTaker (Aug 18, 2006)

Mike you have just proven that Silver Surfer,Thanos,Thor,and Gladiator would just wreck all of DBZ.*reps you*


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

Thanks, but I highly doubt it will get through Phenomen - LOLs skull.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2006)

Is it just me, or does the poll read "Sulver Surfer"?


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## Endless Mike (Aug 18, 2006)

LOL I just noticed that.

Anyway we can enjoy our respite now until Phenomen - LOL comes back with more of his BS.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2006)

On a side-note, you should contribute these scans to the Powers Directory thread.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 18, 2006)

Understandable, but it would ultimately give the OB a basis of what the Silver Surfer's powers would entail.

My own knowledge in relation to the Silver Surfer is not much, outside of the Power Cosmic grants to a typical herald.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 18, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Take a look at this:
> 
> whisper of the beast
> whisper of the beast
> ...



Your a fool who thinks FEATS alone can win you battles, you are wrong this is a fight. 

Champion did not know how the Gem worked and Thanos states this, so stop your foolishness and go ACTUALLY read Thanos quest and stop getting all of your info off of the INTERNET! Champion nor Thanos has planet destroying punches...You are just fooling yourself and giving CORRUPT DATA because you don't know comics.

Like I said I will go by the comicsc and not some whack as opinion from other boards.Thor is too slow, he gets pounded by the Hulk and Juggernaut after all. Thor has trouble keeping up with the Mongoose!!!  Goku isn't getting hit by someone SLOWER then him. Thats a theme throughout Dragonball. Mongoose is nowhere near Goku in speed either, Thor looses to Goku.

How in the hell does Thor let Spider-man can dance around Him? 

EB Games.com - Wii Version
EB Games.com - Wii Version
EB Games.com - Wii Version
EB Games.com - Wii Version
EB Games.com - Wii Version
Link removed

Guess what else Goku can do to Thor... Break his Damn arms.:amazed 

Link removed
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Like I said Thor gets his ass Tagged and mutilated by characters who can not even press 100 tons, Or Maybe I should post Thor's slow ass getting hit by Juggs and Hulk out of ALL people.

That means Goku will easily speedblitz Thor and Thor won't even see Goku. Thor looses.



			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Firelord is NOT weak



*sigh*
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Like I said all of your feats are useless because I just showed you that punching planets and blowing planets up. Being a herald and having the power Cosmic does not give you an automatic win. 

I just showed you SPIDER-MAN dancing around a guy who can TRAVEL the GALAXY in seconds like he was at the DDR Arcades!, does that mean he can automatically beat someone slower than him HELL NO! 

I could post Surfer and THOR getting KO'd by Durok the Demolisher yes he is a CLASS 75 fighter, and able to KILL Thor and KO surfer. Like I said Goku can do the same damn thing.:amazed


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## Galt (Aug 18, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> You are just fooling yourself and giving CORRUPT DATA because you don't know comics.



Corrupt data?  What's he, a computer now?


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## Phenomenol (Aug 18, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> Corrupt data?  What's he, a computer now?



Yeah he is acting like one, collecting information from the net then spewing it out in this thread. It is a shame..


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## Aruarian (Aug 18, 2006)

Also Phenom, where are those scans of that magazine you promised ages ago?


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## Phenomenol (Aug 18, 2006)

In due time, I will have the Daizenshuu Interviews posted containing info on DBZ's TRUE powers and abilities. My people and I are still working on it...


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## Aruarian (Aug 18, 2006)

Translation: It doesn't really exist and I'm just trying to bullshit my way out of things.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Your a fool who thinks FEATS alone can win you battles, you are wrong this is a fight.



You're a fool who thinks that only low - end feats count for characters you're arguing against, and only high - end feats count for characters you're arguing for. 



> Champion did not know how the Gem worked and Thanos states this, so stop your foolishness and go ACTUALLY read Thanos quest and stop getting all of your info off of the INTERNET! Champion nor Thanos has planet destroying punches...You are just fooling yourself and giving CORRUPT DATA because you don't know comics.



I've read Thanos Quest, thank you very much. And you just contradicted yourself. Champion didn't know how the gem worked (Thanos actually did, since he used its power alone in Infinity Gauntlet). So if the gem wasn't working for Champion, then he destroyed the planet with his own power.



> Like I said I will go by the comicsc and not some whack as opinion from other boards.



Then pay attention to the scans *from the comics* I posted.



> Thor is too slow, he gets pounded by the Hulk and Juggernaut after all. Thor has trouble keeping up with the Mongoose!!!  Goku isn't getting hit by someone SLOWER then him. Thats a theme throughout Dragonball. Mongoose is nowhere near Goku in speed either, Thor looses to Goku.



Right, because one low - end showing dictates the character's entire power. Did you miss the part where Thor can attack with Mjolnir at FTL speeds?

Here, I'll post this quote again:



> Theres been much debate by fans all-over regarding the difficulty that Mongoose presents on Thor due to his great speed. However, there shouldnt be any debate concerning any threat that Mongoose can pose on Thor, since its firmly established that: 1) Thor can see objects, or beings moving at fantastic speeds, and 2) Thor can react even faster to defend himself against these specific threats. If artillery bullets can go from anywhere from 600 ft. per second to more than 5,000 ft. a second, why would anyone believe that Thor would be in trouble against someone like Mongoose, who could never be hope to attain such speed? Thor said, as the speed of his hammer physically deflected Mongoose, "My mystic mallet can attain velocities which are BEYOND your ability to grasp!" In other words, let us assume that a Marvel character like Gladiator, who cant possibly defeat Thor from a distance, decides to use super-speed on him, he might just as well be committing suicide- considering how dangerously powerful Thors hammer truly is, plus the hammer could reach velocity that exceeds well-above the speed of light. The Kinetic effect would be UTTERLY devastating. Picture an object that weights practically thousands of tons (The Hulk couldnt even budge the hammer when he tried to lifted using the Full strength of both his arms, and the people of Pangorias mightiest Cranes couldnt budge it either) whirling at fantastic speed and striking someone, or something coming at incredible speed as well; to put it simply (considering the latter), whatever the hammer hits, it DESTROYS.



Goku's punches can't even hurt Thor.

Goku head becomes a fine red mist against Mjolnir. *Deal with it.*



> How in the hell does Thor let Spider-man can dance around Him? *snip*



Because -

1. That was the weaker Masterson Thor.

2. Spider-man has precog and tremendous agility. With that combination of abilities, he can dodge people way faster than he is. He has beaten guys like Quicksilver and Speed Demon on multiple occasions.

3. If Masterson unleashed his real power or used Mjolnir inside that building, he would have caused way too much collateral damage and killed civilians.

4. Every character has low - end showings, you can't base their entire power around that. I've already told you this, perhaps some reinforcement is in order.



> Guess what else Goku can do to Thor... Break his Damn arms.*snip*



Except no. His physical strength is nowhere near enough to do that. Just because someone performs a feat, doesn't mean anyone could. Blockbuster has solo'd the X-men, he's no weakling.

Goku could punch and kick and struggle to hurt Thor all day and the thunder god would just ignore it. Besides, Thor has enhanced and accelerated healing abilities. Not as good as Wolverine or the Hulk, but still.



> Like I said Thor gets his ass Tagged and multilated by characters who can not even press 100 tons



Goku struggled with 40 tons, therefore that is the absolute limit of his strength and any examples of him doing anything more impressive should be completely ignored. Therefore Goku loses.

How do you like your own "logic" used against you?



> Or Maybe I should post Thor's slow ass getting hit by Juggs and Hulk out of ALL people


.

Because he was brawling with them, not using speed in that fight?



> That means Goku will easily speedblitz Thor and Thor won't even see Goku. Thor looses.



If normal people, including anyone watching the show or reading the manga, can see Goku fighting even at the end of the manga, then obviously Thor with his mystical powers will see him. Mjolnir gives him FTL cosmic/mystical senses. Of course there's what I already said, his hammer attacks move way faster than he does and way faster than Goku does. Goku attemps to attack he's going to end up with his skull bashed in by an FTL hammer attack.



> *snip*



Yes, and we all know one low showing means anything impressive he's ever done is out the window. *GET OVER IT*. This *isn't* how debates work, fucktard. EVERY character has low - end showings, they don't mean the character is weak. I might as well say that since Chichi often beats up Goku, then Goku is weaker than Chichi. Of course you would complain and reveal your disgusting hypocrisy. This is like debating with a creationist.

(Also notice the part where Firelord says he could have eliminated Spidey with one blast but chose not to).



> Like I said all of your feats are useless because I just showed you that punching planets and blowing being a herald or Cosmic does not give you an automatic win.
> 
> I just showed you SPIDER-MAN dancing around a guy who can TRAVEL the GALAXY is seconds, does that mean he can automatically beat someone slower than him HELL NO!



No, it means it was a ridiculously low - end feat, and stupid writing, and it is not, in any way, representative of Firelord's true power. Did you see the scans I posted? Firelord fights faster guys all the time and wins. Besides, this thread specifies Surfer will be fighting to his full potential, so he'll be blitzing at millions of times lightspeed, transmuting, doing energy tricks, dimension tricks, time travelling, destroying stars and planets, etc.



> I could post Surfer and THOR getting KO'd by Durok the Demolisher yes he is a CLASS 75 fighter, and able to KILL Thor and KO surfer. Like I said Goku can do the same damn thing.:amazed



Another low - end showing, you moron. Didn't I tell you to stop doing that? Besides, the classes are harldy absolute, characters often lift things out of their class. Ben Grimm, who is supposed to be class 85, has lifted the weight of an entire mountain at least once (millions of tons). Besides, in that fight Surfer was weakened from using his power to ressurect Thor. You're seriously underestimating Durok. Surfer described his strength as 'greater than any mortal he had encountered'. Hulk is a mortal, for one. Furthermore, Durok had to be above class 100 to break Surfer's board, considering that an enraged Savage Hulk was unable to do so. Where did you get the information that Durok was class 75 in the first place? The only reason Surfer was even knocked out in that fight was because he was distracted by trying to save some people, and he finished it with an FTL speedblitz around the earth and trapped Durok in the future. Of course you would ignore that part, being the dishonest little shit you are.

Oh, and according to your logic, Goku isn't even class 40.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 19, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> You're a fool who thinks that only low - end feats count for characters you're arguing against, and only high - end feats count for characters you're arguing for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This Entire post screams of EXCUSES. You did not even address the issue. My point to you was punching planets and traveling the universe in seconds DOES NOT MEAN A DAMN THING as I have already showed you in the scans.

You wasted your time searching the net and looking for information that you knew nothing about.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> This Entire post screams of EXCUSES. You did not even address the issue. My point to you was punching planets and traveling the universe in seconds DOES NOT MEAN A DAMN THING as I have already showed you in the scans.
> 
> You wasted your time searching the net and looking for information that you knew nothing about.



You're a idiot and a fool. I think you're just doing this to piss people off


----------



## Galt (Aug 19, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> You're a idiot and a fool. I think you're just doing this to piss people off



We can only hope that he's just doing it to piss people off, because if he believes himself then it's time for a totalitarian government to start the purges to purify the human race of inferior genetics.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> This Entire post screams of EXCUSES. You did not even address the issue. My point to you was punching planets and traveling the universe in seconds DOES NOT MEAN A DAMN THING as I have already showed you in the scans.
> 
> You wasted your time searching the net and looking for information that you knew nothing about.



Imagine being punched by a guy that can smash a planet.

Imagine being blitzed by a guy that can travel across the universe in an instant.

You didn't address any of my points, so concession accepted, jackass.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 19, 2006)

Galt said:
			
		

> We can only hope that he's just doing it to piss people off, because if he believes himself then it's time for a totalitarian government to start the purges to purify the human race of inferior genetics.



If you ask me we should all report his posts and hope the mods do something about it.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 19, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Imagine being punched by a guy that can smash a planet.
> 
> Imagine being blitzed by a guy that can travel across the universe in an instant.
> 
> You didn't address any of my points, so concession accepted, jackass.



Spiderman, Durok and Juggs has proven your weak ass theories wrong. Maybe you need another lesson from Spiderman.

I addressed all of your points, showing you punching planets and TRAVELING across galaxies in seconds means NOTHING in combat.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Spiderman, Durok and Juggs has proven your weak ass theories wrong. Maybe you need another lesson from Spiderman.
> 
> I addressed all of your points, showing you punching planets and crossing the galaxy means NOTHING.



No one cares what you think Phenomenol. Because they all know you're a damn fool


----------



## FireEel (Aug 19, 2006)

I am tempted to vote for Surfer, but he was eaten by a bunch of zombies.......would that happen to Goku or Vegeta?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 19, 2006)

FireEel said:
			
		

> I am tempted to vote for Surfer, but he was eaten by a bunch of zombies.......would that happen to Goku or Vegeta?



Yes. Vegeta would be arrogant and fly down then get bitten

Goku would be too dim and fly down and get bitten


----------



## Galt (Aug 19, 2006)

That was an alternate universe Surfer anyway, the real surfer shouldn't even be close to as weak as that.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 19, 2006)

Please, the real Surfer has been knocked out by a brick...


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 19, 2006)

Marvel Zombies was ridiculous. Wasted my money on the issues. . .


----------



## SoulTaker (Aug 19, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Marvel Zombies was ridiculous. Wasted my money on the issues. . .



Come on it was kind of funny.


----------



## The Wanderer (Aug 19, 2006)

SoulTaker540 said:
			
		

> Come on it was kind of funny.


 And canon. Yeah, just read UFF 32. People think that the heroes in that Earth are different and nerfed versions of their 616 and Ultimate counterparts. Because I mean, how the hell do you manage to infect a freaking cyborg (Vision)


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 19, 2006)

How the hell do Zombies BEAT Galactus, eat him, and then become the new third essential cosmic?

Why is it that no cosmic paid attention to the virus?


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 19, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Spiderman, Durok and Juggs has proven your weak ass theories wrong. Maybe you need another lesson from Spiderman.
> 
> I addressed all of your points, showing you punching planets and TRAVELING across galaxies in seconds means NOTHING in combat.



I already explained all of that, you idiot.

Besides, apply your own logic.

No DBZ character has ever destroyed a planet in actual combat.

Therefore they can't.


----------



## The Wanderer (Aug 19, 2006)

You guys found Marvel Zombies funny ? How ? Not that I disliked that mini, it was a good one, but "funny" ?



			
				Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> How the hell do Zombies BEAT Galactus, eat him, and then become the new third essential cosmic?
> 
> Why is it that no cosmic paid attention to the virus?



Galactus was supossed to be a being of 100% energy, right ?  But that's in the 616 Earth. In the Ultimate Universe it's a fleet of alien invaders.

Perhaps the Galactus of that dimension was made of flesh and bones. Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 19, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> No DBZ character has ever destroyed a planet in actual combat.Therefore they can't.



Common sense! If they did then everyone WILL DIE!!!! Story ends...


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 19, 2006)

Not when they can wish it back after the saga is over.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 19, 2006)

Goku could just IT the opposition off the planet and onto another, blow the new one to smithereens and IT back before lunch.

I see flaws in your common sense, Phenomelol.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 19, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> Goku could just IT the opposition off the planet and onto another, blow the new one to smithereens and IT back before lunch.
> 
> I see flaws in your common sense, Phenomelol.



Oh, I did not realize Goku disregards ALL LIFE on the planets... Common sense.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 19, 2006)

And all planets are inhabitted now, are they?

Oh my, I should go to Mars to bring some pie to my neighbours, huh?


----------



## blacklusterseph004 (Aug 19, 2006)

> Goku could just IT the opposition off the planet and onto another, blow the new one to smithereens and IT back before lunch.


Goku can't IT to a place that doesn't have a being with a high power level.


----------



## FireEel (Aug 19, 2006)

Marvel Zombies was wonderful.

It was the actual marvel comic I was willing to spend money on ;p


----------



## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

FireEel said:
			
		

> Marvel Zombies was wonderful.
> 
> It was the actual marvel comic I was willing to spend money on ;p




It just started getting ridiculous towards the end.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Aug 20, 2006)

EDIT: Shiron has shown me the light


----------



## Shiron (Aug 20, 2006)

blue.rellik said:
			
		

> Though I generally agree with you, that's stupid logic
> 
> Goku has not killed a human
> 
> ...


That was EM's point; it's extremely stupid logic. He was using Phenomenol's  own logic against him to show how stupid it is.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Shiron said:
			
		

> That was EM's point; it's extremely stupid logic. He was using Phenomenol's  own logic against him to show how stupid it is.



If you read the damn thread and the point I was getting across that is not Phenom's logic!


----------



## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> If you read the damn thread and the point I was getting across that is not Phenom's logic!




Yes it is.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> If you read the damn thread and the point I was getting across that is not Phenom's logic!



Why are you speaking in the 3RD person, you pretentious asshole


----------



## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Why are you speaking in the 3RD person, you pretentious asshole




He wants to be cool like Havoc.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Yes it is.



Wow, Go ACTUALLY read the thread instead of jumping to conclusions.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Wow, Go ACTUALLY read the thread instead of jumping to conclusions.



your words are enough


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Why don't you read the damn thread?

I can summarize all of your arguments with a brief example:

You: LOL Silver Surfer is weak cuz he lost to (insert character here)

Me: So you're ignoring all the times he's done stuff like (scans, examples, feats) to go with a low - showing? Besides, you're being dishonest about the circumstances, what actually happened was (this).

You: LOLOL that stuff wasn't in actual battle so it doesn't count!

Me: Of course it does, it shows his power compared to actual objects so it can be ascertained. Besides, here's him battling and winning against (insert characters here).

You: LOLROFFLZ those characters are weak cuz they lost to (insert other characters here)!

Me: You're being dishonest about the circumstances again, what actually happened was (details, elaboration) and those were low - end showings, don't forget the time where they did (scans, feats, battles, etc.)

You: That stuff doesn't count because it wasn't in combat! And the combat part means nothing because the guys they were fighting against lost to (insert characters here)

Me: So because of low - end showings, all of their medium and high showings are discarded?

You: Yes!

Me: In that case Goku can't lift 40 tons, can get KO'd with one weak punch, and everything he's ever done stronger than that doesn't count.

You: No! It doesn't work that way! My bullshit logic only counts when it's being used to support my position!


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Why don't you read the damn thread?
> 
> I can summarize all of your arguments with a brief example:
> 
> ...


WIN!


----------



## Pimp of Pimps (Aug 20, 2006)

Minami Ryusuke said:
			
		

> WIN!


*
I would like to second this. 
*


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Why don't you read the damn thread?
> 
> I can summarize all of your arguments with a brief example:
> 
> ...



_*That's Phenomenol in a nutshell*_


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

12 pages so far. . .

I wonder how far this will go. . .


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Why don't you read the damn thread?
> 
> I can summarize all of your arguments with a brief example:
> 
> ...



*sigh*

Yeah, I gave you a high end feat but you dismiss it as bad writing . Goku has fought Beings that could blow up Solar Systems and Galaxies I don't have to research anything like you do, you condescending little fool.

Yes and I have proven with all your so called "feats" they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength or LESS. Besides what does that prove? HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than who has the better feats. You have yet to refute this.

Posting scans of feats that you know nothing about by finding them off the internet is not good enough, I believe you with the intelligence of a soggy biscuit won't convince me otherwise.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 20, 2006)

So, when exactly did anyone blow up a solar system or galaxy in canon in DBZ?


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> *sigh*
> 
> Yeah, I gave you a high end feat but you dismiss it as bad writing.



And what was that, exactly?



> Goku has fought Beings that could blow up Solar Systems and Galaxies



Solar systems is debatable. Galaxies is just bullshit, since that was never mentioned in canon.

Surfer, however, actually HAS fought galaxy - destroying enemies in canon.



> I don't have to research anything like you do, you condescending little fool.



What, you expect me to have scans of every comic book character's feats on my computer already?



> Yes and I have proven with all your so called "feats" they can still be knocked out by someone with at least class 100 strength or LESS. Besides what does that prove? HAVOK can't pick up a mountain but he can still beat the Hulk (he could beat Superman as well) There's more to battle than who has the better feats. You have yet to refute this.



No, you just ignored my refutation. Havok uses plasma to attack, not physical strength. It's a different kind of power. Professor X could also beat Superman (and Goku too), and he's a cripple. Does that mean Superman and Goku are weaker than a cripple?



> Posting scans of feats that you know nothing about by finding them off the internet is not good enough, I believe you with the intelligence of a soggy biscuit won't convince me otherwise.



I've read a lot of the comics they come from, thank you very much. I even own some of them (I just don't have a scanner). Besides, you're committing a  logical fallacy by attacking my evidence based on where it comes from, instead of actually addressing it for what it is and what it contains. That's dishonest.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

Havok? You mean Alex Summers?


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

_Solar systems is debatable. Galaxies is just bullshit, since that was never mentioned in canon._

The power to destroy a galaxy is FAR greater than a solar system. Inverse-square law and all.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> And what was that, exactly?
> 
> Surfer, however, actually HAS fought galaxy - destroying enemies in canon.
> 
> ...



Yet you keep beating around the damn bush. All of your posts come with a an EXCUSE card. You have yet to refute that all of your so called Super feats don't mean a damn thing because Surfer gets Ko'd and Frequently beat by characters who don't have any feats or power EQUAL to his own.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

> And he 's been beaten by far less FREQUENTLY!



That sentence doesn't even make sense. And learn to use the quote function ffs.



> You don't have to post scans that waste your time and especially posting something you know nothing about. Posting your knowledge would be good enough.



No, because then you would just bullshit your way out of it. Hard evidence is what is needed.



> Obviously you missed it, Goku uses Ki far stronger than Havok's Plasma, you work it out.



And your proof of this is....?

Come to think of it, what is your proof that ki would even affect plasma?



> Yet you keep beating around the damn bush. All of your posts come with a an EXCUSE card. You have yet to refute that all of your so called Super feats don't mean a damn thing because Surfer gets Ko'd and Frequently beat by characters who don't have any feats or power EQUAL to his own.



No, because those are *LOW - END SHOWINGS*, often with *EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES*. I already explained this to you. Low - end showings don't make all the other showings just disappear.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> That sentence doesn't even make sense. And learn to use the quote function ffs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Once again, beating around the bush. Your argument is weak, you keep saying it is based on  "Low-end showings." They are not low end showings these are your characters in combat, not your weak ass feat of Surfer changing his clothes in a nono second, not Surfer taking laps around the earthg on his surf board, actually what he can do in battle!! This is a fight not a lifting contest or a race it is a damn fight.


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 20, 2006)

"Nono second"? 

Is that like the 'geologists definition of ki', Phenomenol?


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Nanosecond reaction times and searching the earth in a few seconds prove that he can see and react to Goku's attacks easily, and they will appear to him to be in slow motion.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Nanosecond reaction times and searching the earth in a few seconds prove that he can see and react to Goku's attacks easily, and they will appear to him to be in slow motion.



Is that why Thanos who has Human Olympic speed who can't search the earth in a few seconds and does not have the Supreme feats like the Surfer beat Surfers ass on a daily basis!.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

No, it's because Thanos has FTL reflexes and cosmic awareness.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> No, it's because Thanos has FTL reflexes and cosmic awareness.



Thanos does not have FTL reflexes you tried to GIVE him that ability Thanos has HUMAN olympic speed and he is not even as POWERFUL as the Surfer, yet Thanos beats his ass.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Are you kidding? Thanos is well above Herald level. He knocked down Galactus and fought well with Odin.

And the mere fact that he can even tag the Surfer (and other fast guys) proves he has FTL reflexes, because we know the Surfer has nanosecond reaction times (at least). Another example: We know Thor can throw his hammer at FTL speeds, but in one comic Thanos reacted to it and held out his hand to stop it in time. FTL reflexes. Also Thanos (with the help of Adam Warlock and Gamora) defeated a good portion of 25,000 enemies in a short time. He also trained Gamora to fight, and she is one of the deadliest HtH fighters in the universe.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Are you kidding? Thanos is well above Herald level. He knocked down Galactus and fought well with Odin.
> 
> *Thanos merely HELD his own! If any of these fights continued he would have LOST badly, that is not ABOVE Herald level.*
> 
> And the mere fact that he can even tag the Surfer (and other fast guys) proves he has FTL reflexes, because we know the Surfer has nanosecond reaction times (at least). Another example: We know Thor can throw his hammer at FTL speeds, but in one comic Thanos reacted to it and held out his hand to stop it in time. FTL reflexes. Also Thanos (with the help of Adam Warlock and Gamora) defeated a good portion of 25,000 enemies in a short time. He also trained Gamora to fight, and she is one of the deadliest HtH fighters in the universe.



You are like a robot stuck on repeat. You think coming up with assumptions on how Thanos tags the Surfer means he has FTL reflexes, Everyone tags the Surfer. Thor has to charge up to throw his hammer at lightpseed and it does not state him doing that, in the other comic you showed states it. Anyways Thanos had his Shield up so that proves nothing about his reflexes.

Thanos does NOT have FTL reflexes he has Human olympic speeds.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

> Thanos merely HELD his own! If any of these fights continued he would have LOST badly, that is not ABOVE Herald level.



Considering Surfer, the strongest Herald (sans Tyrant), got taken out in one blast from Odin, I would say it is. Now that I mention it, Thanos also did way better against Tyrant, and Omega.



> You are like a robot stuck on repeat. You think coming up with assumptions on how Thanos tags the Surfer means he has FTL reflexes, Everyone tags the Surfer. Thor has to charge up to throw his hammer at lightpseed and it does not state him doing that, in the other comic you showed states it. Anyways Thanos had his Shield up so that proves nothing about his reflexes.
> 
> Thanos does NOT have FTL reflexes he has Human olympic speeds.



No, slower people only tag the Surfer when he lets them, or there are extenuating circumstances (like he can't use his full power and speed to avoid hurting people around him, or is weakened, or is distracted by something).

We KNOW he has nanosecond reaction times, that fact isn't just nullified by the fact that he's been tagged.

And it doesn't have to state in every comic how fast the hammer is moving, the mere fact that he has been shown to do it means it can be. Besides, he was 'charging up', or didn't you see him swinging the hammer around at superspeed beforehand?

And it was a display of reflexes, because Thanos held out his hand in the way of the hammer before it reached him.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

I thought the Fallen One was the most powerful (ex)-herald.


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Why do you say that?

The guy got easily punked by Thanos, and the most impressive thing he ever did was destroy a gas giant planet.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Considering Surfer, the strongest Herald (sans Tyrant), got taken out in one blast from Odin, I would say it is. Now that I mention it, Thanos also did way better against Tyrant, and Omega.
> 
> No, slower people only tag the Surfer when he lets them, or there are extenuating circumstances (like he can't use his full power and speed to avoid hurting people around him, or is weakened, or is distracted by something).
> 
> ...



Thor is never a good example when it comes to speed! Thanos had his shield it makes no difference.

Thanos does NOT have FTL reflexes once again just like you did with Superman you are trying to give Thanos abilities that he does not have. Thanos has Human Olympic speed, and he taggs the Surfer because he is  Skilled and a more experienced H2H combat fighter. The Surfer is TERRIBLE in H2H combat. I am sorry you are going to have to do better than that.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Thor is never a good example when it comes to speed! Thanos had his shield it makes no difference.
> 
> Thanos does NOT have FTL reflexes once again just like you did with Superman you are trying to give Thanos abilities that he does not have. Thanos has Human Olympic speed, and he taggs the Surfer because he is  Skilled and a more experienced H2H combat fighter. The Surfer is TERRIBLE in H2H combat. I am sorry you are going to have to do better than that.



Quit with the bullshity and lies Phenomenol. 

Damn I could swear you was a lawyer


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

> Wrong, he's never showed the nano second reactions in battle. that is why Thanos is able to smack him.



No, it's because Thanos has FTL reflexes. Powers just don't disappear when there's a fight.



> Thor is never a good example when it comes to speed! Thanos had his shield it makes no difference.



Are you even paying attention?

I'll spell it out for you:

Thanos does not have his hand out.

Thor throws Mjolnir.

Thanos raises his hand and blocks it, before it reaches him.

That's reaction speed.



> Thanos does NOT have FTL reflexes once again just like you did with Superman you are trying to give Thanos abilities that he does not have. Thanos has Human Olympic speed, and he taggs the Surfer because he is Skilled and a more experienced H2H combat fighter. The Surfer is TERRIBLE in H2H combat. I am sorry you are going to have to do better than that.



Evidence suggests he does. How do you explain him evading the gauntlet grab (when he was only using the power gem)?


----------



## Aruarian (Aug 20, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Quit with the bullshity and lies Phenomenol.
> 
> Damn I could swear you was a lawyer


If you hire a lawyer, you usually expect to win.


----------



## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

_Damn I could swear you was a lawyer_

Hmm. . . that would be quite an applicable quality where it would benefit the person.


----------



## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> No, it's because Thanos has FTL reflexes. Powers just don't disappear when there's a fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is NO evidence that Thanos has FTL reactions, you are just making crap up again. The Infinity Gauntlet is not a good example he used the POWER Gem which increases ALL ABILITIES!!!!!! I don't think it's canon.

Show me where it states Thanos has FTL reflexes? Show me when Thanos has been Speedblitzed? Show me Thanos Speedblitzing someone? You can't, so stop MAKING up abilities.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Occupation: EMS Technician
Identity: Secret
Legal Status: None
Place of Birth: Asgard
Group Affiliation: Active member of Avengers
Base of Operations: New York City, New York
First Appearance: JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #83

History: Descended from Norse gods, Thor nearly started a war by violating a truce with his family's ancient enemy --the Frost Giants. Odin, his father, banished the young god of thunder to Earth without his memory, to teach Thor how to behave as a mere mortal. After a decade as an earthly doctor, Donald Blake was drawn to Norway, and a subsequent encounter with a race of warmongering aliens. While hiding out in a cave, Blake found a mysterious wooden cane that turned out to be the enchanted hammer Mjolnir -- which transformed him back into the mighty Thor. He drove off the alien invaders and took his place with the Avengers. Shaking off the Blake persona, Thor was soon forced to assume the human identity of EMS technician Jake Olsen. Thor is forever torn between his divine home -- the hallowed halls of Asgard -- and the troubled lands of his adopted home, Earth.

Height: 6 ft. 6 in.
Weight: 640 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Blonde

Stregnth Level:

Known Superhuman Powers: Thor's principal weapon is the enchanted hammer Mjolnir, one of the most formidable weapons known to man or god. Among the hammer's various enchantments are its indestructibility and the ability to summon all the elements of storm (wind, rain, thunder, and lightning). His hammer can be thrown both as a means of flight, and as a weapon that always returns to its wielder's hand. Thor's superhuman strength is matched with an immunity to all human diseases, *superhuman speed, agility*, and simulated flight when he hurls his enchanted hammer Mjolnir. Eh, Phenomenol you chump. What you have to say now?


----------



## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> There is NO evidence that Thanos has FTL reactions, you are just making crap up again. The Infinity Gauntlet is not a good example he used the POWER Gem which increases ALL ABILITIES!!!!!!



No, it just gives them extra power. Reflexes, senses, and speed aren't the same as power. If he was using the time gem, the mind gem, or the space gem you would have a point, but he wasn't. 



> Show me where it states Thanos has FTL reflexes?



Show me where it states Goku's hair is spiky. Not everything has to be spelled out.



> Show me when Thanos has been Speedblitzed?



Eros, Gamora, Thor, Surfer, etc.



> Show me Thanos Speedblitzing someone?



I would, but you would just state that since the art style is different from DBZ, it doesn't count.



> You can't, so stop MAKING up abilities.



I'm not making them up, I'm INFERRING them from what is shown.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> No, it just gives them extra power. Reflexes, senses, and speed aren't the same as power. If he was using the time gem, the mind gem, or the space gem you would have a point, but he wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No once again all baseless crap from your own imaginary world. Until you show me where it states Thanos haves FTL reflexes you need to shut up. He tags the Surfer because he is an OVERALL BETTER FIGHTER THAN THE SURFER. Thanos has No where near the Abilities and your favorite "FEATS" like Silver Surfer yet Thanos smacks him on a daily basis. Like I said Feats mean nothing when you are in a battle.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

If he had slow reflexes, Surfer would see him in slow motion and not get tagged unless he deliberately let himself get hit. It wouldn't matter how good a fighter he was.

And feats mean EVERYTHING in a battle. Strength feats mean the power of your punches. Speed feats mean the speed you attack and defend at. Energy feats mean ways to harm your opponent. Durability feats mean what you can survive in the battle.

If there was a guy who beat another guy in a boxing match, and then a third guy who could lift huge boulders, run a mile in 10 seconds, and dodge bullets, but you had never seen the third guy actually fight, would you say the boxer would win because the third guy's feats are useless in combat?


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## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> If he had slow reflexes, Surfer would see him in slow motion and not get tagged unless he deliberately let himself get hit. It wouldn't matter how good a fighter he was.
> 
> And feats mean EVERYTHING in a battle. Strength feats mean the power of your punches. Speed feats mean the speed you attack and defend at. Energy feats mean ways to harm your opponent. Durability feats mean what you can survive in the battle.
> 
> If there was a guy who beat another guy in a boxing match, and then a third guy who could lift huge boulders, run a mile in 10 seconds, and dodge bullets, but you had never seen the third guy actually fight, would you say the boxer would win because the third guy's feats are useless in combat?



You just contradicted yourself AGAIN! You keep claiming feats are everything, Thanos a guy who does not travel the galaxy in seconds and is nowhere near as Powerful as the Surfer yet he KO's the SS almost everytime.

I need to see the guy actually fight, not jog a mile in 10 seconds. Hell, I will take a Wide Reciever who has been playing football for years over a Wide reciever who can press 500 pounds or run the 100 in 5 seconds and has never played football. It is all about SKILLS and EXPERIENCE.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> No once again all baseless crap from your own imaginary world. Until you show me where it states Thanos haves FTL reflexes you need to shut up. He tags the Surfer because he is an OVERALL BETTER FIGHTER THAN THE SURFER. Thanos has No where near the Abilities and your favorite "FEATS" like Silver Surfer yet Thanos smacks him on a daily basis. Like I said Feats mean nothing when you are in a battle.





Strength Level: The exact extent of Thanos's physical strength is not known, but he was able to engage both the Thing and Thor in hand-to-hand combat simultaneously for an extended period of time and hold his own. Presumably, then, Thanos possessed at least Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons.

Known Superhuman Powers: Thanos possessed incalculable superhuman power. By far the most powerful of the Titanian Eternals, Thanos was a mutant whose massive, heavy-bided body was born with the capacity to synthesize cosmic energy for certain personal uses. (This is a trait that Thanos shared with his father Alars and all Earthborn Eternals but not with Titan-born Eternals. Through still unknown bionic amplification, Thanos increased his physical strength and resilience to levels surpassing even the strongest of the Earth Eternals. Through meditation and certain mystical techniques, Thanos augmented his power in still other ways, enabling him to tap, transform, and direct vast quantities of cosmic energy for destructive force. His skin in nearly invulnerable, particularly against heat, cold, electricity, radiation, toxins, aging, and disease, and he can survive indefinitely without food or water even before his "curse" from Death left him immortal, unable to die. His mind is also invulnerable to most forms of psychic attack, and can project a psionic blast of energy as well as blasts of plasma/cosmic energy from his eyes and hands. He usually employs a hovering chair with additional offensive weapons and the _*ability to teleport fantastic distances.*_ Deadliest of all Thanos's attributes, perhaps, was his mind, whose superhuman level of intellect was totally dedicated to the annihilation of life.

Shut up fool. I've proven you wrong again


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

_The Infinity Gauntlet is not a good example he used the POWER Gem which increases ALL ABILITIES!!!!!!_

Not so. From what I remember, I've never seen the Power Gem used in relation to speed or reflexes.

_I don't think it's canon._

Infinity Gauntlet's canon.


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## Aruarian (Aug 20, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> Infinity Gauntlet's canon.


Not to mention pimpin' as fuck.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Feats matter more than skill in some situations. Let's say if a 120 year old martial artist been training since he was 10 years old, no doubt he woubt he would be skilled.

 But  since he is 120 years old, his body is battered and arthritis has set in, he is in no shape to fight anymore.

 Then you have a 17 year old rookie, an all-out failure except for the fact he has the body of a god. no health problems, nothing. 

Who you think wins?


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## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Feats matter more than skill in some situations. Let's say if a 120 year old martial artist been training since he was 10 years old, no doubt he woubt he would be skilled.
> 
> But  since he is 120 years old, his body is battered and arthritis has set in, he is in no shape to fight anymore.
> 
> ...




What if the 120 has ki blasts?


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## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> Strength Level: The exact extent of Thanos's physical strength is not known, but he was able to engage both the Thing and Thor in hand-to-hand combat simultaneously for an extended period of time and hold his own. Presumably, then, Thanos possessed at least Class 100 strength, enabling him to lift (press) over 100 tons.
> 
> Known Superhuman Powers: Thanos possessed incalculable superhuman power. By far the most powerful of the Titanian Eternals, Thanos was a mutant whose massive, heavy-bided body was born with the capacity to synthesize cosmic energy for certain personal uses. (This is a trait that Thanos shared with his father Alars and all Earthborn Eternals but not with Titan-born Eternals. Through still unknown bionic amplification, Thanos increased his physical strength and resilience to levels surpassing even the strongest of the Earth Eternals. Through meditation and certain mystical techniques, Thanos augmented his power in still other ways, enabling him to tap, transform, and direct vast quantities of cosmic energy for destructive force. His skin in nearly invulnerable, particularly against heat, cold, electricity, radiation, toxins, aging, and disease, and he can survive indefinitely without food or water even before his "curse" from Death left him immortal, unable to die. His mind is also invulnerable to most forms of psychic attack, and can project a psionic blast of energy as well as blasts of plasma/cosmic energy from his eyes and hands. He usually employs a hovering chair with additional offensive weapons and the _*ability to teleport fantastic distances.*_ Deadliest of all Thanos's attributes, perhaps, was his mind, whose superhuman level of intellect was totally dedicated to the annihilation of life.
> 
> Shut up fool. I've proven you wrong again



Maybe you need to go read more comics. That is simply Thanos TECHNOLOGY not under his own ability.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Oh, and here's Thanos tagging Captain Marvel (a confirmed speedster)



Thanos vs. Jack of Hearts (another speedster). Notice how JoH blitzes him from the front and then quickly moves directly behind him (a common DBZ tactic) but Thanos still reacts and beats him.



Thanos tags Captain Marvel again:



Thanos speedblitzes Mistress Death's zombies by firing 6 blasts at once only from 2 hands:


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Maybe you need to go read more comics. That is simply Thanos TECHNOLOGY not under his own ability.



No it isn't


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## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

rild said:
			
		

> No it isn't




Yes it is.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> You just contradicted yourself AGAIN! You keep claiming feats are everything, Thanos a guy who does not travel the galaxy in seconds and is nowhere near as Powerful as the Surfer yet he KO's the SS almost everytime.



Nowhere near as powerful?

Where are you getting this from?

Thanos knocked down a fully fed Galactus and took a blast from him, took a blast from a 2x power Galactus clone, took blasts from Tyrant and got his own in, fought almost evenly with Odin (who beat Surfer with one blast and is a Skyfather), beat Warrior Madness Thor with the Power Gem who was owning entire teams of heroes and others beforehand, beat the Fallen one easily, and a bunch of other stuff. Ask almost any comic fan, they will tell you Thanos is well above Herald level. He's nearly Skyfather level himself.



> I need to see the guy actually fight, not jog a mile in 10 seconds. Hell, I will take a Wide Reciever who has been playing football for years over a Wide reciever who can press 500 pounds or run the 100 in 5 seconds and has never played football. It is all about SKILLS and EXPERIENCE.



Then you're an idiot. Of course, what else is new?


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## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Oh, and here's Thanos tagging Captain Marvel (a confirmed speedster)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are becoming pathetic. You already posted these scans and Jack of hearts and Captain Marvel don't even go lightspeed. You even posted Captain Marvel getting hit when he LEAST expectd it, my god the lengths you will go. 

None of Those are FTL feats Thanos has Cosmic awareness did you forget about that. Show me where it states Thanos having FTL reflexes? If not be quiet. Thanos does not travel the galaxy in seconds and still he beats up people who do! Feats mean nothing in BATTLE it is all about Skill and experience.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 20, 2006)

Havoc said:
			
		

> Yes it is.



I'm the fool this time then


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

_Thanos tags Captain Marvel again:

_

Now this one, I wouldn't say it's a speed tag feat.


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## Havoc (Aug 20, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _Thanos tags Captain Marvel again:
> 
> _
> 
> Now this one, I wouldn't say it's a speed tag feat.




But it shows how strong Thanos' pimp slap is.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 20, 2006)

I wonder when will Jim Starlim finally get him and Death together. . . ha.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> You are becoming pathetic. You already posted these scans and Jack of hearts and Captain Marvel don't even go lightspeed. You even posted Captain Marvel getting hit when he LEAST expectd it, my god the lengths you will go.
> 
> None of Those are FTL feats Thanos has Cosmic awareness did you forget about that. Show me where it states Thanos having FTL reflexes? If not be quiet. Feats mean nothing in BATTLE it is all about Skill and experience.



The battles show speedsters getting hit by Thanos.

And Captain Marvel is lightspeed. He also has cosmic awareness and should have detected Thanos' attack, if Thanos was really so slow.


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## Phenomenol (Aug 20, 2006)

Endless Mike said:
			
		

> The battles show speedsters getting hit by Thanos.
> 
> And Captain Marvel is lightspeed. He also has cosmic awareness and should have detected Thanos' attack, if Thanos was really so slow.



Still all of your so called "FEATS mean everything" argument is null and void. Thanos who does not travel worlds in seconds still clocks the Surfer on a regular basis.

Skills and Combat experience>>> Feats.


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## Endless Mike (Aug 20, 2006)

Travel speed =/= combat speed.


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## konflikti (Aug 21, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> Still all of your so called "FEATS mean everything" argument is null and void. Thanos who does not travel worlds in seconds still clocks the Surfer on a regular basis.
> 
> Skills and Combat experience>>> Feats.



And what exactly makes you think Goku has better skills and experience than Silver Surfer? Or more impressive powerset? Or durability?

Powerlevel > Skills and Combat experience


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## Phenomenol (Aug 21, 2006)

konflikti said:
			
		

> And what exactly makes you think Goku has better skills and experience than Silver Surfer? Or more impressive powerset? Or durability?
> 
> Powerlevel > Skills and Combat experience



*sigh*

All of your questions have been asked and answered! go actually start from page one and read on up.


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## konflikti (Aug 21, 2006)

Phenomenol said:
			
		

> *sigh*
> 
> All of your questions have been asked and answered! go actually start from page one and read on up.



So you concede?


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## Alucard45Maximum (Aug 21, 2006)

wow.....I've noticed after reading both the Superman vs Goku thread(both version) and this one that I now conclude that it's basically Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol. in fact any thread featuring a dc/marvel character and goku is always an Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol thread.

first it's Vegeta and Goku vs Silver surfer, then it went down to Goku vs Silver Surfer, and now it heading towards Thanos for some reason....


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## Kuya (Aug 23, 2006)

This is true.


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 24, 2006)

_wow.....I've noticed after reading both the Superman vs Goku thread(both version) and this one that I now conclude that it's basically Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol. in fact any thread featuring a dc/marvel character and goku is always an Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol thread._

Back in the Vegito vs. Vegito thread, it was me vs. Phenomenol, I think. With Valdens, JnR, Id, and others.


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## Giovanni Rild (Aug 24, 2006)

Comic Book Guy said:
			
		

> _wow.....I've noticed after reading both the Superman vs Goku thread(both version) and this one that I now conclude that it's basically Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol. in fact any thread featuring a dc/marvel character and goku is always an Endless Mike vs. Phenomenol thread._
> 
> Back in the Vegito vs. Vegito thread, it was me vs. Phenomenol, I think. With Valdens, JnR, Id, and others.



My nerves are too bad to clash with Phenomenol anymore


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## Comic Book Guy (Aug 24, 2006)

Understandable.

On my end, I've been doing this ever since my debut. Same for EM as well, I believe.


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