# Katara and Toph vs. Sakura and Hinata



## Karma Monster (Feb 15, 2009)

fight happens in Naruto verse. It's a full moon.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Feb 15, 2009)

Toph buries them underground and they die of asphyxiation. Katara included because Katara's a bitch.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 15, 2009)

That last sentence decides the fight.


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 15, 2009)

What is with all the noob threads and thread necromancy lately?

With the full moon, bloodbending will end this quickly, and adding Toph just makes it that much more of a stomp.


----------



## SmashSk8er (Feb 15, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> What is with all the noob threads and thread necromancy lately?
> 
> With the full moon, bloodbending will end this quickly, and adding Toph just makes it that much more of a stomp.



Qft ........


----------



## Karma Monster (Feb 15, 2009)

I want to see Sakura and Hinata get stomped. Was that not obvious?

Bitchy!Katara is The Shit.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 17, 2009)

Narcissus said:
			
		

> With the full moon, bloodbending will end this quickly,



Depends if Katara can control someone as strong as Sakura but she beats Hinata with ease.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 17, 2009)

Sakura is not strong. It is just a quick burst of chakra through the muscles which lasts a second at the most.


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 17, 2009)

Are you sure? Coulda sworn we've seen either Sakura or Tsunade actually lifting heavy objects with ease indicating strength and not bursts of chakra.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Feb 17, 2009)

well sakura stomps toph cus she crushes all her earth and hinatahs protesctive 8 trigrams to slice katara while shes trying to control sakura. sakura deos have strenght cus look at how hard she's punched and that was before she was taught by tsunade.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Feb 17, 2009)

This guy is a master of noobbending making a full moon makes this rape but having Toph makes this overkill


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Feb 17, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> Are you sure? Coulda sworn we've seen either Sakura or Tsunade actually lifting heavy objects with ease indicating strength and not bursts of chakra.



Tsunade's got natural superstrength. Sakura's only got the kind that works with punches and kicks and shit. No lifting.


----------



## RWB (Feb 18, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> well sakura stomps toph cus she crushes all her earth and hinatahs protesctive 8 trigrams to slice katara while shes trying to control sakura. sakura deos have strenght cus look at how hard she's punched and that was before she was taught by tsunade.



Toph does one movement, and Sakura is buried in the earth. She does one more movement, Sakura is crushed. Katara does one movement, Hinata now cannot move and may be used to attack Sakura.


----------



## Xirk (Feb 18, 2009)

Why Hinata? She's amazingly useless, she's done nothing more then act like retard around Naruto, get raped buy Neji and look at shit with her byukugan.

Should have used Temari or Tsunade or something instead.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 18, 2009)

sanin3 said:


> well sakura stomps toph cus she crushes all her earth and hinatahs protesctive 8 trigrams to slice katara while shes trying to control sakura. sakura deos have strenght cus look at how hard she's punched and that was before she was taught by tsunade.



Or Katara just grabs both Sakura and Hinata with bloodbending and Toph pounds the crap out of them with metal armor.  GG.


----------



## Stan Lee (Feb 18, 2009)

Depends if there is metal around to bend.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Feb 18, 2009)

^No it dosent...Katara could solo with blood bending.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

I hope everyone here realizes that Sakura and Hinata are fast enough to slit Katara's throat before she even flinches? Same with Toph.


----------



## Onomatopoeia (Feb 19, 2009)

Based on??


----------



## The Saltiest Pizza (Feb 19, 2009)

^ Exactly. They have like, no speed feats.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

Xenomorph said:


> Depends if there is metal around to bend.



The fight is the whole Narutoverse.  I'm sure there's a good amount of metal.  Even if not, plain earth would suffice.



			
				Red said:
			
		

> I hope everyone here realizes that Sakura and Hinata are fast enough to slit Katara's throat before she even flinches? Same with Toph.





Mind posting a single speed feat of Sakura and Hinata?  No?  How about one of Toph?


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 19, 2009)

Why is this thread still going?  It is obvious that Katara and Toph stomp Sakura and Hinata.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 19, 2009)

No it isn't.  What is obvious is that Sakura and Hinata speedblitz Toph and Katara.  Avatar characters can't compete with Naruto characters.


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 19, 2009)

To neg or not to neg?  That is the question.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 19, 2009)

Are you going to actually debate me or just do nothing?


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 19, 2009)

Debate?  What are you rambling about?  Your argument about speed was already refuted by Bender Alchemist.  

Post some scans of these amazing speed feats of Sakura and Hinata, now.  Otherwise, concession accepted.  Simple as that.


----------



## Darth Nihilus (Feb 19, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> No it isn't.  What is obvious is that Sakura and Hinata speedblitz Toph and Katara.  Avatar characters can't compete with Naruto characters.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

I hate a noob who actually leaves nothing to argue against.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Based on??


Basic log justu requires that you move faster than the eye can follow to be effective. That's a basic academy level technique that any genin can pull off. In the fight with Sasori she also dodged raining metal spikes that were fast enough to pierce through solid rock. In comparison Katara has problems fending off Tai lee and Mai.




Bender Alchemist said:


> Mind posting a single speed feat of Sakura and Hinata?  No?  How about one of Toph?


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura would bust through the little girls pebbles.

Then crushing their insides with one punch. Hinata could just stand their and look pretty or use her defenses while Toph throws her rocks.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

What's this crap I hear about Ninja's being faster than the eye can see, specially Fod & Fodder? And what kind of sick joke is that suposed to be against Toph?
Anyway, Narutogirls die of either having their brains busted like melons or the blood frozen in their brains.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

More like Toph and Katara get demolished my Sakura's fist. You honestly think their gonna stand their while Toph throws her little rocks? Sakura would throw  it right back at her.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Katara gets decapitated before she even makes her first moves by Sakura's fist.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Bloodbending.


Katara hasn't blood bended more than one opponent. There are two people in this fight.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Red said:


> Katara hasn't blood bended more than one opponent. There are two people in this fight.



And Toph is dead. She was crushed by one of Sakura's shadow clones


----------



## The Wanderer (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura ? Shadow Clones ? Since when ?


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Since um......the Part 1 of Naruto. 

Edit: Im sorry its not called Shadow clone its the *Clone Technique*.


----------



## The Wanderer (Feb 19, 2009)

The same technique that is unable to psysically attack any foes whatsoever ?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

Red said:


> Katara hasn't blood bended more than one opponent. There are two people in this fight.



Two hands, one for each person.  Hama was able to bloodbend Aang and Sokka at the same time.  Katara may not be able to thoroughly control both Sakura and Hinata, but she can hold them still for Toph to clobber 'em.




			
				Tylerannosaurus said:
			
		

> Edit: Im sorry its not called Shadow clone its the Clone Technique.



Plain clones are intangible; they're illusions and can't attack.  Shadow clones are actually physical, and Sakura can't do them.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

plain clones are so utterly useless here with toph and water spike spray. Anyone even atempting to argue it should defenitly lurk moar.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah, Toph may not even realize the clones are there.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Rocks can't stop Sakura. Not even Iron sand can stop her.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Rocks can't stop Sakura. Not even Iron sand can stop her.



If Chiyo wasn't there to bail her ass out she would have died. Sakura dies quick.


----------



## The Wanderer (Feb 19, 2009)

Iron Sand couldn't stop her because Sasori is an idiot. (And kinda sorta awanted to die)

Replace him with Magneto (or any competent magnetism manipulator while we're at it), and Sakura and Chiyo would have been on the receiving end of a guro session.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Two hands, one for each person.


 With the exception of stopping Sokka and Aang in the air (which is a far cry from holding down super humans), katara has only managed to hold down one person, a frail old woman, down with her blood bending. That has no bearing on whether or not she can do it to TWO people. Two people who out class her speed and strength.


> Hama was able to bloodbend Aang and Sokka at the same time.


You're comparing hama, who invented the technique and has years of experience. Not  valid comparison.


> Katara may not be able to thoroughly control both Sakura and Hinata, but she can hold them still for Toph to clobber 'em.


You have yet to provide a convincing argument for this.

Let me put it this way. A bender has to see what he is bending. If the two are fast enough to blind side her with log jutsu's then her blood bending is useless.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> If Chiyo wasn't there to bail her ass out she would have died. Sakura dies quick.



Well guess what.....she was there 

Sakura decapitates Toph. Hina and Saku begin to gangrape Katara


----------



## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura and Hinata kills both of them before they can even rise their hand.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Well guess what.....she was there
> 
> Sakura decapitates Toph. Hina and Saku begin to gangrape Katara






Bloodbending takes care of Sakura and Toph opens a hole in the ground, right under Hinata. Both neutralized.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Crimson King said:


> [Insert stupid image here ]
> 
> 
> Bloodbending takes care of Sakura and Toph opens a hole in the ground, right under Hinata. Both neutralized.





vagnard said:


> Sakura and Hinata kills both of them before they can even rise their hand.



This 

@pic poster. Learn how to actually debate instead of posting pictures. This isn't a photo gallery.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> *snip*





Not fast enough

Also, bloodbending immobilizes them.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

Tyleran, Lurk Moar.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> *Learn how to actually debate*




This coming from a troll who thinks Yamamato's fire > the sun.


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> This
> 
> @pic poster. *Learn how to actually debate* instead of posting pictures. This isn't a photo gallery.



They'll learn that when you learn that V=D/T, that people moving faster than light will defeat enemies moving at slower speeds, that Warhammer 40k is far more awesome than Bleach, and that you yourself know jack shit about debating.

Toph and Katara open a hole/use bloodbending/do something other than being useless.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Why are you bringing up past debates I already won? Bleach>SJK Its done.

Sakura uses Genjutsu  on toph and kt.

The end.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> This
> 
> @pic poster. *Learn how to actually debate *instead of posting pictures. This isn't a photo gallery.



Lol, you and your FTL Yoruichi and suns that chase people.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Why are you bringing up past debates I already *lost like a noob*? SJK>*Bleah*(?) Its done.
> 
> Sakura gets the blood ripped out of her
> 
> The end.


Fixed that up a bit

What is BLEAH anyways?

Some kind of food?


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Why are you bringing up past debates I already won? Bleach>SJK Its done.
> 
> Sakura uses Genjutsu  on toph and kt.
> 
> The end.



Trolls are unfunny, especially when they deny their trolldom.

You lost that debate, pure and simple. I don't see how you can argue against this. 

Aizen<These guys


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

Red said:


> With the exception of stopping Sokka and Aang in the air (which is a far cry from holding down super humans), katara has only managed to hold down one person, a frail old woman, down with her blood bending. That has no bearing on whether or not she can do it to TWO people. Two people who out class her speed and strength.



She didn't stop Aang and Sokka, she just stopped Hama from bloodbending them.  And no, actually, she has not just used bloodbending on Hama (which is actually impressive, seeing as waterbending can be used to resist bloodbending).  She also used bloodbending on the captain of the Southern Raiders in that episode.  He was helpless against her.

Also she has torn water straight from trees.  Tree durability>human durability.  If Sakura tries to tear free of bloodbending she'll only rip the water out of her veins.  Hinata can't even try.




> You're comparing hama, who invented the technique and has years of experience. Not  valid comparison.



No- Katara can control multiple bodies of water.  She can make up to 8 water whips (octopus form) and control them simultaneously.  Controlling two bodies should be simple.  Past two is debatable, but just two matches her hand number.



> Let me put it this way. A bender has to see what he is bending. If the two are fast enough to blind side her with log jutsu's then her blood bending is useless.





			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> Sakura and Hinata kills both of them before they can even rise their hand.



To both of you, I say:

Do you have a speed feat from either that can compete with the one I posted for Toph?  No?  GG then.


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> I have a question, why are you guys bringing up all your SJK trash over here? I understand your pissed you lost but this isn't about Bleach nor SJ. Its about Toph and Katara getting their asses kicked by Saku and Hina



It's because you inexplicably won't reply to the other thread and have behaved like a petulant and whiny three year old who can't comprehend basic facts such as the sun moving around in space or velocity being displacement divided by time.

Also, Warhammer is still far more awesome than Bleach.

You're worse than Jplaya, for Christ's sake.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

He wishes.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Do you have a speed feat from either that can compete with the one I posted for Toph?  No?  GG then.



What speed feat from Toph?


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

vagnard said:


> What speed feat from Toph?



The girl is slow. She has zip, zilch, Nada.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> The girl is faster than my retarded attempts at trolling



She's fast enough to dodge giant speeding rocks flying her way IIRC.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

Crimson King said:


> She's fast enough to dodge giant speeding rocks flying her way IIRC.



Please show me the speed of these rocks. People in Naruto can move faster than the eye can register. According to the databook Post Sakura is as fast as Pre-Timeskip Sasuke who gained Lee's speed.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

vagnard said:


> Please show me the speed of these rocks. People in Naruto can move faster than the eye can register.



They don't seem to understand that. Most likely it will be the same post over and over.  "Bloodbending" "Bloodbending" "Bloodbending" 

Sakura would destroy anything Toph throws at her.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> She didn't stop Aang and Sokka, she just stopped Hama from bloodbending them.  And no, actually, she has not just used bloodbending on Hama (which is actually impressive, seeing as waterbending can be used to resist bloodbending).  She also used bloodbending on the captain of the Southern Raiders in that episode.  He was helpless against her.


 Point still stands she only controls on person at a time, and that person is not a superhuman.


> Also she has torn water straight from trees.  Tree durability>human durability.  If Sakura tries to tear free of bloodbending she'll only rip the water out of her veins.  Hinata can't even try.


This is ridiculous. But I'm going to humor you. Trees hold water in them selves with the use of a passive action called , that is the  of molecules to different molecules. That's different with the case of a human heart which has an active force behind blood i.e the heart and the various muscles that control the movement of water. Saying that you can pull water from a tree and it translate to the human body is absurd because the blood is actually being actively controlled. That's even ignoring that Katara has never shown the ability to do so.



> No- Katara can control multiple bodies of water.  She can make up to 8 water whips (octopus form) and control them simultaneously.  Controlling two bodies should be simple.  Past two is debatable, but just two matches her hand number.


Apples and oranges. Controling bodies of water that are not wrapped by tissue and muscle isn't the same thing as controlling free bodies of water.  That's an association fallacy, same with the comparison of Hama and Katara when it comes to blood bending.



> To both of you, I say:
> 
> Do you have a speed feat from either that can compete with the one I posted for Toph?  No?  GG then.


Are you even paying attention:



			
				Me a page ago said:
			
		

> Look at what you're saying. Lets look at the feat you're using. You're comparing kicked rocks that are still visible, and still dodgeable by anyone nearing peak human to two nins that are faster than the eye can follow. The speed difference is obvious to anyone who looks at it.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

running speed feats comparable to flying appa, wich means, alot faster than sakura and hinata that took three days to get out of a forest, and reaction feats are always >>> anyway, since she can work off pre-cog.

Tyleran, your set reminds me of my female co-workers.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> They don't seem to understand that. Most likely it will be the same post over and over.  "Bloodbending" "Bloodbending" "Bloodbending"
> 
> Sakura would destroy anything Toph throws at her.



Prove it.

Let's say Toph throws Galactus at Sakura.

Are you saying Sakura can destroy Galactus?


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> running speed feats comparable to flying appa, wich means, alot faster than sakura and hinata that took three days to get out of a forest, and reaction feats are always >>> anyway, since she can work off pre-cog.
> 
> Tyleran, your set reminds me of my female co-workers.



You work with Ino Yamanka and Miley Cyrus? 

If your were trying to be funny then 

Katara can't control Sakura or Hina with Bloodbending.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

Crimson King said:


> Prove it.
> 
> Let's say Toph throws Galactus at Sakura.
> 
> Are you saying Sakura can destroy Galactus?



Lets say TTGL instead.



Tylerannosaurus said:


> Katara can't control Sakura or Hina with Bloodbending.


And why can't she.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> You work with Ino Yamanka and Miley Cyrus?
> 
> If your were trying to be funny then
> 
> *Katara can't control Sakura* or Hina with Bloodbending.



prove it


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

I hate having to repeat myself.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> You work with Ino Yamanka and Miley Cyrus?
> 
> If your were trying to be funny then
> 
> *Katara can't control Sakura or Hina with Bloodbending*.



I ask you to prove the bolded, because as it's a fullmoon Katara can indeed do this, though Hinata really won't be much use in this fight at all come to think of it.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> You work with Ino Yamanka and Miley Cyrus?
> 
> If your were trying to be funny then


No, I work with prostitutes.


> Katara can't control Sakura or Hina with Bloodbending.



GTFO of my OBD.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

KingOfShippers said:


> I ask you to prove the bolded, because as it's a fullmoon Katara can indeed do this, though Hinata really won't be much use in this fight at all come to think of it.



Show me where Katara controls* 2* people at once. Toph is dead already. She's decapitated.

Saku Hina Gangrape Katara before she lifts a finger.

Edit: @ Bamhammer if I don't respond to you or anyone else is because Im ignoring you , You guys have some weird obsession with me. Ignoring.........


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

BTW, I still haven't seen a speed feat for Sakura or Hinata.

And wtf why can't I neg Tyler?


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Show me where Katara controls* 2* people at once.* Toph is dead already. She's decapitated.
> 
> Saku Hina Gangrape Katara before she lifts a finger.*



You made the original claim, so you have to prove it.

Prove the bolded.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> BTW, I still haven't seen a speed feat for Sakura or Hinata.
> 
> And wtf why can't I neg Tyler?



Because, Im just that awesome 

Its called being sealed. Plus, I don't want your nasty neg 

I still haven't seen a speed feat for T and K


----------



## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> And wtf why can't I neg Tyler?



We've all tried and are sad that we can't.


----------



## Red (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> I hate having to repeat myself.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Show me where Katara controls* 2* people at once. Toph is dead already. She's decapitated.
> 
> Saku Hina Gangrape Katara before she lifts a finger.
> 
> Edit: @ Bamhammer if I don't respond to you or anyone else is because Im ignoring you , You guys have some weird obsession with me. Ignoring.........



It's only Sakura at this point i'm sure as Hinata post-time skip hasn't shown to do anything, so she probably won't last long so it will be Sakura who gets bloodbended while toph wails on her. Also you said in a earliar post that Sakura can tank rock what about steel when Toph's in metel-bending mode



Tylerannosaurus said:


> Because, Im just that awesome
> 
> Its called being sealed.



No it's not...well maybe it is for Team Avatar


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

KingOfShippers said:


> It's only Sakura at this point i'm sure as Hinata post-time skip hasn't shown to do anything, so she probably won't last long so it will be Sakura who gets bloodbended while toph wails on her. Also you said in a earliar post that Sakura can tank rock what about steel when Toph's in metel-bending mode
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not...well maybe it is for Team Avatar





Sakura can tank Sasori's Iron Sand so Steel won't be much for her. And *ONCE AGAIN* Hina is still here.

Unless you provide links to where Katara is bloodbending 2 enemies. *GANGRAPE*


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Sakura can tank Sasori's Iron Sand so Steel won't be much for her. And *ONCE AGAIN* Hina is still here.
> 
> Unless you provide links to where Katara is bloodbending 2 enemies. *GANGRAPE*



That's only because she was controlled by Chiyo at the time, otherwise Sasori would have mauled her.

I'm well aware that Hinata is still there, but the fact that she hasn't shown anything noteworthy post-time skip, means she probably will not last that long.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Sakura can tank Sasori's Iron Sand so Steel won't be much for her. And *ONCE AGAIN* Hina is still here.
> 
> Unless you provide links to where Katara is bloodbending 2 enemies. *GANGRAPE*



1. She didn't tank anything. All she did was limp around while Chiyo used her as a puppet

2. Toph drops Hianta in a hole and Katara bloodbends.

Win for Avatar


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

KingOfShippers said:


> That's only because she was controlled by Chiyo at the time, otherwise Sasori would have mauled her.
> 
> I'm well aware that Hinata is still there, but the fact that she hasn't shown anything noteworthy post-time skip, means she probably will not last that long.



Chiyo doesn't control Sakura's power. Im talking about her ability to crush boulders. Hinata is strong enough to defeat them. Toph and Katara are Genin tops.

Toph gets boulder hurled at her face by Sakura. Instant KO.

Sakura demolishes Katara by a blow to the chest.

GG


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

Is this the famed blonde intelegence?
Why the hell she needs to control them? Just rip the blood off their brains with a fingersnap and be done with both of them.


----------



## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> I hate having to repeat myself.


----------



## Crimson King (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Chiyo doesn't control Sakura's power. Im talking about her ability to crush boulders. Hinata is strong enough to defeat them. Toph and Katara are Genin tops.
> 
> Toph gets boulder hurled at her face by Sakura. Instant KO.
> 
> ...



1. prove it

2. Toph dodges

3. Katara rips Sakura's blood out.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

yeah, that feat is about as consisten as a bucket of diharea, and as retarded as travolta's kid.
Here's a newshflash for all you science nerds
Clothes rip.
If that feat had half the realism of a rainbow ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) tree, naruto would have just kept on falling.
But that's a nice durability feat you got there, ninjas can't fall to the ground without getting killed when Iroh drops a few stories into rock statues and isn't even spooked.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

vagnard said:


> Lol.
> 
> Show me the speed of that rock.
> 
> Lol. Pre-Timeskip Sakura could nail Naruto to a tree with a kunai before he fall to the ground.



That rock was s   l   o   w  a   s   h  e l    l

Compared to Sakura's feat.

Put a paper bomb at the end of that Kunai 

Bye Bye Toph


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

rock was in slow-mo
Lurk moar.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura and Hinata has not shown any speed feats whatsoever. They've never dissapeared from anyone's eyesight. All of post-skip Sakura's feats are destroying the ground, punching holes in stuff etc... which which will not help her with 2 benders that can do perform a variety of moves that can effectively disable if not kill her immediately. And Hinata does not have any noteworthy feat ever.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

now, now, let's not be too rough on hinata. She did manage to :S........ nevermind


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

rawrawraw said:


> *Sakura and Hinata has not shown any speed feats whatsoever.* They've never dissapeared from anyone's eyesight. All of post-skip Sakura's feats are destroying the ground, punching holes in stuff etc... which which will not help her with 2 benders that can do perform a variety of moves that can effectively disable if not kill her immediately. And Hinata does not have any noteworthy feat ever.




Yet Sakura shrugs off anything Toph throws at her.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Feb 19, 2009)

Who said Toph throws things at her. She can bury Sakura deep in the Earth so she suffocates. Or Katara bloodbends.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 19, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Chiyo doesn't control Sakura's power. Im talking about her ability to crush boulders. Hinata is strong enough to defeat them. Toph and Katara are Genin tops.
> 
> Toph gets boulder hurled at her face by Sakura. Instant KO.
> 
> ...



Can you give me anything notable at all that would suggest that Hinata can stand up to Katara and Toph because like I said she has next to nothing in feats...wait I take that back she has nothing in feats whatsoever, which means she dies rather quickly. That's what you get when the author doesn't give a shit.

Please Toph's way more durable than that, and that's depending on whether the boulder would actually hit her.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura jumps in the air and attacks Toph from above. Toph used the move on a clone. 

Toph is KO' ed. 

Next...


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

clones don't even show up on toph's radar on account of not existing and having no discernable mass.
Toph's attack landed
You were just pnwned
Next.


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura and Hinata get their legs loced in earth before thet make a move.  Katara proceeds to make them stab each other with kunai via bloodbending.

Now, scans of Hinata and Sakura's impressive speed, or as I said before, conceed.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 19, 2009)

Sakura already took out Toph with the Paper Bomb and a blow to the chest. Toph is blind, she can't detect you if your in a tree.

Its 2 on 1 now.

Links to where Katara bloodbends against 2 enemies at once.........waiting............... Thought so. Sakura uses her Super human strength while Hinata uses Gentle fist. 

GG

The winners are Sakura and Hina. Im done


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 19, 2009)

Considering that Katara's bloodbending is stronger than Hama's, who did bloodbend two people at once, then anyone with an IQ higher than a slice of bread would know that Katara can as well.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Considering that Katara's bloodbending is stronger than Hama's, who did bloodbend two people at once, then *anyone with an IQ higher than a slice of bread *would know that Katara can as well.



And therein lies the problem.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 20, 2009)

I think I saw a comment about Sakura not having superhuman stregnth outside the punching. I'd just like to correct that and note she did push and lift a boulder that was say, 6 x 6 feet, off Chiyo's leg during the Sasori fight. Also, if it counts, she did stop Sasori charge and pull the tart back at her. Errr. Then there is also the thing pre-skip where she set up the log trap. Even if she were using a pulley method, I doubt it would be possible for someone of her preportions to lift that. 
Anyway,
Katara kills them.
Toph Kills them.

---


----------



## Abigail (Feb 20, 2009)

Redux-shika boo said:


> *I think I saw a comment about Sakura not having superhuman stregnth outside the punching.* I'd just like to correct that and note she did push and lift a boulder that was say, 6 x 6 feet, off Chiyo's leg.
> 
> Katara kills them.
> Toph Kills them.



You would be correct. The tech that both Tsunade and Sakura uses delivers a quick pulse of chakra to improve impact.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 20, 2009)

Red said:


> Controlling blood and ripping it out are two different things which require two different levels of control. Saying she can do one so she can do the other is an association fallacy. Ive called you out on this before and your repition just shows that you're floundering.



The feat still counts.  My logic is:

Katara can rip the water out of something as hard as a tree.
Human bodies are weaker than a tree.
Therefore, Katara can rip the water out of a human body.

If you'd care to use actual logic and disprove my syllogism, go ahead.  Otherwise, GTFO.



> You haven't proved katara can control two people. You haven't shown a connection between the amount of hands and the amount of people she can control. You're making a basless claim. You're making an assumption not providing proof.



Katara can bend multiple bodies of water with her hands.
Humans, through bloodbending, are are controlled as bodies of water.
Therefore, Katara can bend multiple human bodies.



> Then that's not a reaction feat, she anticipated his attacks and reacted accordingly.  And you're emphasizing that she attacked before he hit the ground. So? That doesn't compare to dissapearing from sight. Last I checked (and it was just now) dissapearing from sight puts you at 89.5 meters per second. That's 200 mph. And this is something that preskip sakura was able to pull off several times in a row.



It's still a reaction feat, she still reacted.  She'd do the same thing, were Sakura or Hinata to throw a kunai.  Disappearing from sight may be better, but Sakura and Hinata don't have that feat, do they?   Unless you can show me otherwise.



> Like I said to anybody who was paying attention. Katara and Toph have trouble with human girls like Mai and Tai lee. Sakura and co are way above that.



Toph has never had trouble with Mai and Ty Lee, and I'm not defending Katara's speed.  She doesn't need much to nab Sakura and Hinata with bloodbending.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 20, 2009)

mai and Ty lee are anything but normal humans.
And they were threatning as long as the plot demanded them to be a threat. At the end of season two, without getting any weaker, they were still sonned by toph.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 20, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> It's still a reaction feat, she still reacted.  She'd do the same thing, were Sakura or Hinata to throw a kunai.  Disappearing from sight may be better, but Sakura and Hinata don't have that feat, do they?   Unless you can show me otherwise.



No it's a normal feat.  And of course Sakura and Hinata can move faster than the eye can see; all ninja can.



> Toph has never had trouble with Mai and Ty Lee, and I'm not defending Katara's speed.  She doesn't need much to nab Sakura and Hinata with bloodbending.



Yes Katara does need speed.  How can she even bloodbend someone she can't see?


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 20, 2009)

Okay, you've claimed it.  Now prove it.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 20, 2009)

It's standard academy training to move faster than the eye can see, duh.


----------



## Narcissus (Feb 20, 2009)

In other words, you have no proof, and thus conceede the match.  Thank you.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 20, 2009)

Wtf don't you read Naruto?  You should know.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 20, 2009)

Proof or conceed. Thats how things are done around here.


----------



## Shirō Kazami (Feb 20, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> It's standard academy training to move faster than the eye can see, duh.



I wasn't aware Sakura or Hinata could shunshin in the manga.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 20, 2009)

Jugglenaut said:


> I wasn't aware Sakura or Hinata could shunshin in the manga.



It must of been in a hidden panel.


But seriously Sakura and Hinata die.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 20, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> Wtf don't you read Naruto?  You should know.



If you're so certain, why can't you cough up the proof?


----------



## Red (Feb 20, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> In other words, you have no proof, and thus conceede the match.  Thank you.





Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Proof or conceed. Thats how things are done around here.





Jugglenaut said:


> I wasn't aware Sakura or Hinata could shunshin in the manga.





Bender Alchemist said:


> If you're so certain, why can't you cough up the proof?



This was said on page 2, and repeat like for a couple more pages.




Red said:


> Basic log justu requires that you move faster than the eye can follow to be effective. That's a basic academy level technique that any genin can pull off.



Chapter 190
Chapter 190
Chapter 190

Fact of the matter is that log jutsu requires that you escape for the opponents field of vision with high speed movement.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 20, 2009)

Log jutsu is an evasive technique.  It doesn't mean Sakura is that fast; it means she can temporarily spike her speed for that technique, nothing more.  She can't use it to speedblitz, and she can't use it to escape bloodbending.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 20, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Log jutsu is an evasive technique.  It doesn't mean Sakura is that fast; it means she can temporarily spike her speed for that technique, nothing more.  She can't use it to speedblitz, and she can't use it to escape bloodbending.



I have to agree with this otherwise she would be using that speed all the time.


----------



## Red (Feb 20, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Log jutsu is an evasive technique.  It doesn't mean Sakura is that fast; it means she can temporarily spike her speed for that technique, nothing more.  She can't use it to speedblitz, and she can't use it to escape bloodbending.


So basically you just said _"yeah log jutsu grants them short high speed movement but they still can't blitz"_? Wishful thinking. Not only is that speed faster than anything in the Avatarverse, it gives them the ability to blind side them in tandem and they can effectively spam it to their hearts content.



Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> I have to agree with this otherwise she would be using that speed all the time.


She doesn't use it all the time because any ninja worth thier salt can see through it.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 20, 2009)

Red said:


> So basically you just said _"yeah log jutsu grants them short high speed movement but they still can't blitz"_? Wishful thinking. Not only is that speed faster than anything in the Avatarverse, it gives them the ability to blind side them in tandem and they can effectively spam it to their hearts content.
> She doesn't use it all the time because any ninja worth thier salt can see through it.



Red you won a couple pages back. Continuing is just wasting your time. No matter how much sense you make, and as many time as you prove them wrong. They will troll, and spam  

Let the flaming begin


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 20, 2009)

Red said:


> So basically you just said _"yeah log jutsu grants them short high speed movement but they still can't blitz"_? Wishful thinking. Not only is that speed faster than anything in the Avatarverse, it gives them the ability to blind side them in tandem and they can effectively spam it to their hearts content.



Yes, Sakura can move at that speed.  No, she can't use it however she wants.  She only uses it for that one special technique, to evade an enemy's attack.  She can't use it for anything else, just the jutsu, otherwise she would have used the speed in other situations.  You can't speedblitz an opponent with something that's not even an attack.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 20, 2009)

log jutsu is not about speed, it's about misdirection and relying your oponent to be retard that dosen't realize he's been attacking a log for the past few seconds.
Glorified Henge will certainly not work here, since Toph is imune to it, and log's water gets imediatly ripped off anyway, revealing itself to be a log.


----------



## Shock Therapy (Feb 20, 2009)

Log jutsu basically useless here. Toph can't see and Katara is not retarded. Katara bloodbends them both while Toph smashes their face with boulders.


----------



## Abigail (Feb 20, 2009)

Red said:


> She doesn't use it all the time because any ninja worth thier salt can see through it.



So then why do ninjas get caught with the kawarimi all the time then.


----------



## Red (Feb 20, 2009)

Tylerannosaurus said:


> Red you won a couple pages back. Continuing is just wasting your time. No matter how much sense you make, and as many time as you prove them wrong. They will troll, and spam
> 
> Let the flaming begin


Thank you for the vote of confidence, but hey it's a fun way to kill time and raise post count.




Bender Alchemist said:


> Yes, Sakura can move at that speed.  No, she can't use it however she wants.  She only uses it for that one special technique, to evade an enemy's attack.  She can't use it for anything else, just the jutsu, otherwise she would have used the speed in other situations.  You can't speedblitz an opponent with something that's not even an attack.


I don't know whether your ignoring the obvious on purpose here. A speedblitz is attacking the person before he or she realizes it. The log jutsu allows the user to reposition himself in an instant, throwing the opponent off balance and attacking before he or she realizes it. Different means, same ends.



rawrawraw said:


> Log jutsu basically useless here. Toph can't see and Katara is not retarded. Katara bloodbends them both while Toph smashes their face with boulders.


Being retarded has nothing to do with it, the question is can she react to an opponent who has instantly appeared behind her with a kunai? Then answer is *no* taking into account that katara was having trouble with Mai and Tai lee who are not peak humans. I'm pretty sure we can agree that sakura and hinata are superhuman.



Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> So then why do ninjas get caught with the kawarimi all the time then.


I hate when people use generalities to discuss a specific case. Bring up specific situations so we can discuss it. But I'm pretty sure that as of Part two anybody worth their salt doesn't even if use such a low level technique.


----------



## universal loli expert (Feb 20, 2009)

i think sakura and hinata would win due to sakura's super strength and hinata could do something i think


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 20, 2009)

naruto56 said:


> i think sakura and hinata would win due to sakura's super strength *and hinata could do something i think*



I laugh at this, as Hinata has shown nothing whatsoever in feats, her only purpose in this fight is to be a human shield for anything pointy that either Katara or Toph throw at Sakura.


----------



## Senbonzakura (Feb 20, 2009)

some paper bombs on kunai knife could do the trick


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 21, 2009)

Red said:


> I don't know whether your ignoring the obvious on purpose here. A speedblitz is attacking the person before he or she realizes it. The log jutsu allows the user to reposition himself in an instant, throwing the opponent off balance and attacking before he or she realizes it. Different means, same ends.



But the way the replacement technique works disables it as an attack.  To do it, a ninja must have a thing to switch places with- and ends up in the position of the object.  She can't use it to just appear right next to an opponent and attack.



			
				sanin3 said:
			
		

> some paper bombs on kunai knife could do the trick



No.  Toph and Katara are both experienced with enemies with explosive powers (firebenders) and projectiles (Mai).  A simple paper bomb won't cut it.


----------



## Red (Feb 21, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> But the way the replacement technique works disables it as an attack.  To do it, a *ninja must have a thing to switch places with- and ends up in the position of the object.*  She can't use it to just appear right next to an opponent and attack.


She can use the rocks toph chucks at them since her attacks would rip out large boulders and such. Plus this fight takes place in the Narutoverse not the battle dome. So there are a lot of objects she can use to substitute.

Also since toph is disadvantaged with projectiles, a kunai with an explosive tag attached can easily kill her or at the very least render her useless with the shock wave of the attack disorienting her.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 21, 2009)

Wait, what, using rocks to try trick toph?
Shockwaves?
Now I know you haven't been paying atention.


----------



## Red (Feb 22, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Wait, what, using rocks to try trick toph?
> Shockwaves?
> Now I know you haven't been paying atention.


Toph sees using vibrations. A shockwave is a mass surge of vibrations from one point. See the logic? And yes log jutsu would work on toph as well as katara.


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> Toph sees using vibrations. A shockwave is a mass surge of vibrations from one point. See the logic?



...

Toph was able to move around on a moving ship and fought plenty of Earthbenders, each of whom would create massive vibrations. Sakura's attack is essentially her getting her hand caught and ripped off due to it hitting the ground so hard.

So no, I don't expect that to work.

And how would an illusion work on a blind girl? Are you saying log actually makes a copy with the same mass as the original?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> She can use the rocks toph chucks at them since her attacks would rip out large boulders and such. Plus this fight takes place in the Narutoverse not the battle dome. So there are a lot of objects she can use to substitute.
> 
> Also since toph is disadvantaged with projectiles, a kunai with an explosive tag attached can easily kill her or at the very least render her useless with the shock wave of the attack disorienting her.



Good point, except Toph would be actively controlling the rocks, which may affect their susceptability to switching.  It's still not a clean way to speedblitz- Sakura can't attack faster than Toph and Katara can react.

Toph may be disadvantaged with projectiles, but that's only if her opponent launches it while in the air.  Otherwise, she can predict its path- she has intercepted shuriken from Mai before.  Also, give one instance of an explosion disorienting Toph or you're making stuff up.  As I recall, Toph was the first person to retaliate to Combustion Man after his opening blast in their first encounter.


----------



## Red (Feb 22, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> ...
> 
> Toph was able to move around on a moving ship and fought plenty of Earthbenders, each of whom would create massive vibrations. Sakura's attack is essentially her getting her hand caught and ripped off due to it hitting the ground so hard.


 The Air ship was different because she could feel where she would go through metal. But in every other situation where she was on a shit made from anything NOT metal she was at a disadvantage. Plus you can't compare the concussive force of a bomb with ripping rocks out. 



> And how would an illusion work on a blind girl? Are you saying log actually makes a copy with the same mass as the original?


Log jutsu is not an illusionary technique.



Bender Alchemist said:


> Good point, except Toph would be actively controlling the rocks, which may affect their susceptability to switching.


 There are other trees as well. Point is that there are many objects that you can switch with. 


> It's still not a clean way to speedblitz- Sakura can't attack faster than Toph and Katara can react.


You have yet proved that their base speed is even on par with sakura and hinata. I keep bringing this up and you keep ignoring it. *katara and toph have trouble with normal martial artists like tai lee and mai* what makes you think they can react to people who effectively disappear fro sight?



> Toph may be disadvantaged with projectiles, but that's only if her opponent launches it while in the air.


 No, in the rescue appa arc the episode where they were ambushed in the cavern and jet was killed, toph was blindsided by several projectiles at once.



> Otherwise, she can predict its path- *she has intercepted shuriken from Mai before.*


Proof.



> Also, give one instance of an explosion disorienting Toph or you're making stuff up. As I recall, Toph was the first person to retaliate to Combustion Man after his opening blast in their first encounter.


Common sense, what happens when you hit the human ear with an explosion with a high enough decibel? Big enough explosions cause disorientation for _normal_ people directly in front of it. How much more a girl who is sensitive to sound? Just because the writers of avatar where ignorant enough to ignore that tid bit of physics doesn't mean we have to.


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> The Air ship was different because she could feel where she would go through metal. But in every other situation where she was on a shit made from anything NOT metal she was at a disadvantage. Plus you can't compare the concussive force of a bomb with ripping rocks out.



...

She's an earthbender. They are fighting on earth.



Red said:


> Log jutsu is not an illusionary technique.



Well then, what the hell is it? Are you saying that is somehow grants an object the same mass as Sakura?


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

Log jutsu not being an illusionary jutsu?

That makes sense. They get their ass raped and then handed to them, then replacethemselves with a log, and all their injuries are healed!
Right? Science!


----------



## Red (Feb 22, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Log jutsu not being an illusionary jutsu?
> 
> That makes sense. They get their ass raped and then handed to them, then replacethemselves with a log, and all their injuries are healed!
> Right? Science!


*? Kawarimi no Jutsu * 
 ? Body Substitute        Skill 
_Appearance:_ Chapter        6 
_Used By:_ All Shinobi 
_*Type: Ninjutsu *_
_Description:_ A common jutsu - used to quickly replace a body with        a close by object. Creates confusing among the opponent(s) - creating a        chance to escape, or return with a larger strike. Useful for avoiding attacks,        and hiding from potential enemies. 

lol.



C. Hook said:


> ...
> 
> She's an earthbender. They are fighting on earth.


 I was just refering to your "She can fight on boats" argument. meh.


> Well then, what the hell is it? Are you saying that is somehow grants an object the same mass as Sakura?


It's classified as a ninjutsu by the databook and various other sources.


----------



## C. Hook (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> *? Kawarimi no Jutsu *
> ? Body Substitute        Skill
> _Appearance:_ Chapter        6
> _Used By:_ All Shinobi
> ...



Tell me where it grants mass, please.



Red said:


> I was just refering to your "She can fight on boats" argument. meh.



You said the vibrations would distract her on earth. I brought forward an example of her being able to fight on a moving boat or airship, both of which experience large amounts of constant movement. Since she can sense through both of those, the material is insignificant (Actually, it is significant; Toph would have a harder time sensing through metal, making the boat feat even better).



Red said:


> It's classified as a ninjutsu by the databook and various other sources.



And that proves anything about it granting an object the same mass and heartbeat?

Besides, Toph will still be able to sense where the real Sakura is, since it's not like she can leave the battlefield.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> I was just refering to your "She can fight on boats" argument. meh.
> 
> It's classified as a ninjutsu by the *databook* and various other sources.





Red said:


> It's classified as a ninjutsu by the *databook* and various other sources.





Red said:


> It's classified as a ninjutsu by the *databook* .





Red said:


> *databook*





Also


> Creates confusing among the opponent(s)



Where's the argument?
And where are logs in this battle?


----------



## Red (Feb 22, 2009)

C. Hook said:


> Tell me where it grants mass, please.





> And that proves anything about it granting an object the same mass and heartbeat?


And? The point is that it's a ninjutsu. Calling it an illusionary technique is wrong.



> You said the vibrations would distract her on earth. I brought forward an example of her being able to fight on a moving boat or airship, both of which experience large amounts of constant movement. Since she can sense through both of those, the material is insignificant (Actually, it is significant; Toph would have a harder time sensing through metal, making the boat feat even better).


You're comparing a gently swaying boat to an explosion. There's a problem with this comparison.



> Besides, Toph will still be able to sense where the real Sakura is, since it's not like she can leave the battlefield.


She won't be able to react. Notice, when sakura was substituting in the fight with the sound nins? She was in the air. Toph can't sense ariel attacks. And if sakura slaps an explosive tag on the log before substituting it then it'll go boom in her face.



Banhammer said:


> Also
> 
> 
> Where's the argument?
> And where are logs in this battle?


There in the narutoverse. There are enough objects to substitute.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

The desert in the Narutoverse. Rain country is in Narutoverse. The chunin exam tower is in Narutoverse and so is the goddamned crater that used to be konoha. Etc, etc.. All the advantage being in Narutoverse offers is that narutoverse ninjas can do summons, wich neither sakura nor hinata do.
So no.
No logs on account of there not being any and on account of them not working on these two.

Also, shockwaves to confuse toph? Really?




Confuse with what? The extra clear picture of her surroundings? She uses vibrations and strong vibrations to "see". The stronger the vibe, the clearer the picture. And since none of them can do anything as huge as the vibes caused by exploding palaces, or sinking them in the desert, no, there's absolutly nothing they can do to take advantage of Toph.
The fact that you even suggest it and along with logs prooves you need to not be here.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Feb 22, 2009)

Oh.lol. I thought we were using pre-skip versions for some reason. Probably should have read the op.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Red said:


> There are other trees as well. Point is that there are many objects that you can switch with.
> You have yet proved that their base speed is even on par with sakura and hinata. I keep bringing this up and you keep ignoring it. *katara and toph have trouble with normal martial artists like tai lee and mai* what makes you think they can react to people who effectively disappear fro sight?



You're still ignoring Toph's speed feat, which I rebutted your rebuttal to.  And, aside from log jutsu which is very limited, no Sakura and Hinata cannot move faster than the eye.  And Toph has never been given trouble by Mai or Ty Lee.



> No, in the rescue appa arc the episode where they were ambushed in the cavern and jet was killed, toph was blindsided by several projectiles at once.



She was nabbed by a single Dai Li rock glove, yes.  That was when she was standing high on a rock pillar and focusing on other people.



> Proof.







> Common sense, what happens when you hit the human ear with an explosion with a high enough decibel? Big enough explosions cause disorientation for _normal_ people directly in front of it. How much more a girl who is sensitive to sound? Just because the writers of avatar where ignorant enough to ignore that tid bit of physics doesn't mean we have to.



Toph's sense is not based on her ear.  She "sees" with her hands and feat.  Yes, she has very good hearing, but it's not what she relies on.

Wow, not only are you making stuff up, but you are denying the validity of something from the show?  I wonder why I'm still debating you.  The Avatar creators made Toph and her power; they can do whatever the hell they want with it and you have to deal with it.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 24, 2009)

Log jutsu proves Hinata and Sakura go that fast, there's no getting around it.  They can blitz Toph and Katara before they take a breath.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 24, 2009)

But that speed can only be used for that jutsu- that's what the jutsu does.  They are not that fast normally; the jutsu just gives them a burst of speed.


----------



## Red (Feb 25, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> You're still ignoring Toph's speed feat, which I rebutted your rebuttal to.  And, aside from log jutsu which is very limited, no Sakura and Hinata cannot move faster than the eye.  And Toph has never been given trouble by Mai or Ty Lee.


 No I'm not ignoring it. You just seem to think that a single thrown rock is basis enough to think she can handle two superhumanly fast opponents. 



> She was nabbed by a single Dai Li rock glove, yes.  That was when she was standing high on a rock pillar and focusing on other people.


You've claimed she has omndirectional senses. People with omnidirectional sense do not get blind sided.

That's a given. Now imagine that with explosive tags.

Log jutsu is not limited. It requires little chakra and can be used regardless of whether or not the user is a attacked. It's even more useful in this case since it actually serves as a distraction. Fact of the matter is neither toph nor Katara can deal with that.

The very fact that this takes place in the narutoverse gives them the advantage of setting traps. On foot the two girls are still faster than the bender side, without kwamari.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 25, 2009)

Also, regardless of what you want to call him, tai lee and mai have alot better agility feats than sakura and hinata combined.
furthermore, log justsu will not work, for reasons allready adressed.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 25, 2009)

Red said:


> No I'm not ignoring it. You just seem to think that a single thrown rock is basis enough to think she can handle two superhumanly fast opponents.



The fact that she started dodging as soon as Xin Fu started the attack and then hit him with an attack from ~50 meters before he hit the ground is impressive, speed wise.  And you still insist Sakura and Hinata are superhumanly fast?  No.  The only thing to support that is the shaky log jutsu, which you've only shown Sakura doing. 



> You've claimed she has omndirectional senses. People with omnidirectional sense do not get blind sided.



The Dai Li agent got the drop on her because she was focusing on other people and was a good distance away.  No such distractions in this fight.



> That's a given. Now imagine that with explosive tags.



Ok.  It hits Toph's rock wall and blows it up, but still prevents the kunai from hurting her.



> Log jutsu is not limited. It requires little chakra and can be used regardless of whether or not the user is a attacked. It's even more useful in this case since it actually serves as a distraction. Fact of the matter is neither toph nor Katara can deal with that.



Yes it is limited.  It's a ninjutsu, which means the jutsu is specifically designed to give them a speed boost only in this instance.  This instance being switching places with a large inanimate object, NOT appearing right next to an opponent and stabbing her before she reacts.



> The very fact that this takes place in the narutoverse gives them the advantage of setting traps. On foot the two girls are still faster than the bender side, without kwamari.



Traps?  On Toph?



And faster than the bender side _without_ kawamiri?  Feats please.


----------



## Red (Feb 25, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> The fact that she started dodging as soon as Xin Fu started the attack and then hit him with an attack from ~50 meters before he hit the ground is impressive, speed wise.  And you still insist Sakura and Hinata are superhumanly fast?  No.  The only thing to support that is the shaky log jutsu, which you've only shown Sakura doing.


 That wasn't fifty meters, more like 10 at the most. Stop inflating the figures. Log jutsu is done by all genins, hinata is a chunin now. And yes heir superhumanly fast. Last I checked humans don't jump several meters in one leap, neither do they move faster than the eye.

And no toph dodgin the dai lee's attack not impressive an impressive _speed feat_ since you said it yourself she predicted it. Dodging the aim/trajectory of a projectile is not a speed feat. 



> The Dai Li agent got the drop on her because she was focusing on other people and was a good distance away.  No such distractions in this fight.


Then she's not omnidirectional. Simple. 


> Ok.  It hits Toph's rock wall and blows it up, but still prevents the kunai from hurting her.


Yes, now she's half killed by an explosive tag. Better.



> Yes it is limited.  It's a ninjutsu, which means the jutsu is specifically designed to give them a speed boost only in this instance.  This instance being switching places with a large inanimate object, NOT appearing right next to an opponent and stabbing her before she reacts.


 You don't know what the word limited means. 1) Sakura/Hinata can position herself anywhere she wishes. 2) It doesn't use much chakra. 3) These opponents will not see it coming how the hell is it limited? The fact you're downplaying this means you're clutching at straws.





> Traps?  On Toph?


Yes, I'll explain it since you're not following. Slap a bunch of explosive tags and wires around toph won't be able to sense it since they're not touching the round. Katara won't know what it is since it's a peice of paper etc. They walk into it in pursuit of the nins and are blown to tiny peices. There was that simply enough for you :WOW



> And faster than the bender side _without_ kawamiri?  Feats please.


 Every single mission in which they have to move they do so in leaps and bounds of several meters. Very fucking simple.





Banhammer said:


> Also, regardless of what you want to call him, tai lee and mai have alot better agility feats than sakura and hinata combined.
> furthermore, log justsu will not work, f*or reasons allready adressed.*


Ignoring it, followed by shitty downplaying, followed by "Oh they're faster than the eye but still won't blitz anybody for some unknown reason", followed by more down playing "it's limited ZOMG" isn't addressing the point.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 26, 2009)

Red said:


> That wasn't fifty meters, more like 10 at the most. Stop inflating the figures. Log jutsu is done by all genins, hinata is a chunin now. And yes heir superhumanly fast. Last I checked humans don't jump several meters in one leap, neither do they move faster than the eye.



Ok, it wasn't very far.  Better for Toph, because she had less time to react.



> And no toph dodgin the dai lee's attack not impressive an impressive _speed feat_ since you said it yourself she predicted it. Dodging the aim/trajectory of a projectile is not a speed feat.



(It wasn't a Dai Li, it was Xin Fu the earth tournament manager[/quote].  You do nothing to invalidate the facts that she reacted before his attack was launched and hit him before he fell to the ground.



> Then she's not omnidirectional. Simple.



That's stupid.  Toph's sense is omnidirectional.  She just can't focus on everything at once in the middle of battle.



> Yes, now she's half killed by an explosive tag. Better.



No, she just possibly gets knocked down and a bit jarred.  Nothing more.



> You don't know what the word limited means. 1) Sakura/Hinata can position herself anywhere she wishes. 2) It doesn't use much chakra. 3) These opponents will not see it coming how the hell is it limited? The fact you're downplaying this means you're clutching at straws.



No they cannot position themselves wherever they wish, they have to switch with a large inanimated object.  That's how it's limited.



> Yes, I'll explain it since you're not following. Slap a bunch of explosive tags and wires around toph won't be able to sense it since they're not touching the round. Katara won't know what it is since it's a peice of paper etc. They walk into it in pursuit of the nins and are blown to tiny peices. There was that simply enough for you :WOW



Prove that Toph won't sense the tags, because the wires are still touching the ground.  Also, they probably will recognize the tags, because the ninjas will use them in failed direct attacks before resorting to traps.



> Every single mission in which they have to move they do so in leaps and bounds of several meters. Very fucking simple.



Oh so they have enhanced travel speed?  So do Toph and Katara.



(And Katara has her iceslide, but I don't have images of that).

It proves nothing about their reaction speed and combat speed.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Mar 6, 2009)

What the hell are you talking about?  Log jutsu is a speed feat, no refuting it.  They blitz Katara and Toph with kunais in the back of their heads.  GG.


----------



## Abigail (Mar 6, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> What the hell are you talking about?  Log jutsu is a speed feat, no refuting it.


Except it's never been used that way.  





> They blitz Sakura and Hinata with kunais in the back of their heads.  GG.


I'm glad you agree that Katara and Toph win.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Mar 6, 2009)

Ranmyaku Arashi said:


> Except it's never been used that way.



CIS is off, they could use it that way.



> I'm glad you agree that Katara and Toph win.



Stop screwing with my words.


----------



## Abigail (Mar 6, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> CIS is off, they could use it that way.


If no one in the entire verse has used it that way then it can't be used that way.




> Stop screwing with my words.



I didn't. You said it yourself.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Mar 10, 2009)

The CIS applied to the whole verse.  It's still off.


----------



## Abigail (Mar 10, 2009)

It's CIS if they have proved that it could be used one way but they choose not to. Not using moves in ways that have never been used.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Mar 10, 2009)

It's speed, they use it to move places.  If the only use it a certain way it's CIS.


----------



## Abigail (Mar 10, 2009)

Then why the fuck dosen't everyone in the verse use it like that.

The answer is because they can't.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Mar 10, 2009)

The answer is CIS.  I never said that Naruto characters are smart.


----------



## Abigail (Mar 10, 2009)

You can't make up new moves for people to use in a debate. If the move has never been used in the verse then you can't use it in a debate.


----------

