# Marines+Shichibukai vs All Yonkou crews



## mastergimmy (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes. Now we can at least gauge the strength of all 3 powers. Who do you think actually can win. 

Assume Yonkou can work together and same with marines and shichibukai.

This is an all out fight with all the marines and Yonkou crew

Assume: This is the current marines. Aokiji also sides with them 

Location: Marineford


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## Orca (Apr 21, 2015)

Marines get slaughtered. 

Expected crappy arguments:

*- The 4 yonko balance out the marines + shichibukai.*
No dumbass, the yonkos are at war with eachother as well. So the balance exists due to marines vs yonko vs yonko... And so on.

*4 admirals = 4 yonko = lolequalforces*
Yes let's completely forget that each yonko have 2 to 3 people apart from themselves that no one on the marines side expect the admirals or 2 or 3 Shichis can deal with. 

Not to mention there are other statements and actions in the manga that pretty much destroy any notion of equality between all for yonkos and marines. Such as almost the entirety of the marines being stationed to deal with WB pirates and WB and Shanks meeting causing an uproar among the marines.


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## Tenma (Apr 21, 2015)

Eh, the WG combined forces beat 2 Yonkou at most.

4 is ridiculously overkill.


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## Gohara (Apr 21, 2015)

The Yonkou win without much of a problem.  The Yonkou and their First Mates alone are enough to defeat the main members of the Marines and Shichibukai.  The Marines and Shichibukai, even prior to Sengoku and Garp retiring, were afraid of fighting two Yonkou crews around the same time.   If it were the entire World Government and the Gorosei and Kong are all Admiral level or in most cases above, then the fight would be interesting.


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## Imagine (Apr 21, 2015)

So we got WB, Shanks, Big Mam and Kaido + their commanders who all should be lower end or solid top tiers vs Color trio, Fuji, Garp, Mihawk and Sengoku

One yonkou + his allies tore MF to shreds, bruh


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## jNdee~ (Apr 21, 2015)

this guy.

they can win against 2, 3 is unlikely, 4 is impossible


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## Bernkastel (Apr 21, 2015)

Marco+Jozu level  commanders x4 beat 4 admirals.(Kizaru,Aokiji,Fujitora and Greenbull)
WB beats Mihawk 
Shanks beats Akainu 
BM beats Sengoku 
Kaido beats Garp 

3rd mates X4 beats DD and Hancock along with a few VAs while the 4th mates clear the rest of remaining marine forces.


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## Extravlad (Apr 21, 2015)

> Location: Marineford


Yonko gets outsmarted and dies.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 21, 2015)

Not even a fair battle. WG gets destroyed.
Shanks' CoC knocks out all fodders and probably many VAs. 

Yonkou FMs can give admirals high-diff at the very least, and there are four of them here. If one Jozu-level opponent is added there, an admiral stands no chance of winning. 

Shanks defeats Akainu with either low-diff or the lower end of mid-diff, depending on which version is being used.
Marco and Jozu defeat Kizaru with mid-diff at most.
Beckman and Lucky Roo low-diff Aokiji, regardless of the version that's being used.
Kaidou's FM and one Jozu-level opponent defeat Fujitora with around mid-diff.
BM's FM and one Jozu-level opponent defeat Ryokugyu with around mid-diff.
WB/Kaidou/BM sodomize Old Garp and Old Sengoku.


The remaining people in these crews take on VAs, any stragglers and Shichibukai.
Mihawk is what they have going for them against these guys, but I think he'd be overwhelmed by three Vista-level opponents. 
Doflamingo can be occupied or defeated by one Vista-level opponent.


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## Luke (Apr 21, 2015)

Four Yonkou? Jesus. 

They win with no difficulty.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Apr 21, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Not even a fair battle. WG gets destroyed.
> Shanks' CoC knocks out all fodders and probably many VAs.
> 
> Yonkou FMs can give admirals high-diff at the very least, and there are four of them here. If one Jozu-level opponent is added there, an admiral stands no chance of winning.
> ...





I understand the World Government loses handily, but what on earth makes you think Akainu would be this easy for Shanks?


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## Patrick (Apr 21, 2015)

The Yonkous would win but it wouldn't be a stomp. I'd say both sides have the same amount of Top Tiers. 4 Yonkous and 4 Yonkou FMS vs 1 FA, 3 Admirals, Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku and the new Shichibukai guy. The sheer amount of High Tiers would put the Yonkous over the WG forces but it still wouldn't be as easy as anyone here thinks. It's not like there is a guy like Whitebeard who needs 3 Admirals to be taken down with them.

I think 3 Yonkou crews together might be able to still pull it off somehow but I'd actually give that one to the WG more times than not.


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## trance (Apr 21, 2015)

Emperors win. All four is too much. Three _might_ be possible but even that may be a stretch.


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## Ruse (Apr 21, 2015)

Marines get destroyed.


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## Extravlad (Apr 21, 2015)

This thread is full of shit.
Have you guys even read Marineford?
They don't make it to the plaza, they get trapped by the wall and either die or run away like cowards.


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## Bohemian Knight (Apr 21, 2015)

The marines get sauced


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## savior2005 (Apr 21, 2015)

Patrick said:


> The Yonkous would win but it wouldn't be a stomp. I'd say both sides have the same amount of Top Tiers. *4 Yonkous and 4 Yonkou FMS vs 1 FA, 3 Admirals, Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku and the new Shichibukai guy*. The sheer amount of High Tiers would put the Yonkous over the WG forces but it still wouldn't be as easy as anyone here thinks. It's not like there is a guy like Whitebeard who needs 3 Admirals to be taken down with them.
> 
> I think 3 Yonkou crews together might be able to still pull it off somehow but I'd actually give that one to the WG more times than not.



the new warlord sure as hell aint gonna be a top tier. and a yonko second mate (jozu mate) and third mate (vista mate) are borderline top tier which shifts it even more favorable to yonko.


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## Imagine_Breaker (Apr 21, 2015)

If this is the current Yonkou, then I don't see them using the same strategy as Whitebeard knowing their crew would die, especially not Shanks assuming they have knowledge on each other already which wasn't stated. It wouldn't matter anyway. The current and pre-ts Yonkou crews would destroy the marines.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 21, 2015)

Yonkos win

Unless all 5 Gorousei are all revealed to be top tier, and they pull out Kong


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## Extravlad (Apr 21, 2015)

Yonko loses, they have no way of breaking Marineford's wall therefore they can't make it to the Plaza, their ships get destroyed by Sakazuki's magma.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 21, 2015)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I understand the World Government loses handily, but what on earth makes you think Akainu would be this easy for Shanks?



Akainu is definitely stronger than any emperor (bar Shanks/WB) in my eyes, but there are marginal differences in strength between himself and the other admirals. I think he'd need between very high-extreme difficulty to defeat people on that level, which also consists of Beckman/Marco/Old Rayleigh. The only individual who can push him to extreme-diff out of that bunch is Aokiji, so he's definitely the alpha out of them. 

I estimate that Shanks is only half a tier away from Prime Roger in overall strength, making him much stronger than anyone in this generation. The only person on his level is Dragon, and I'm under the impression that he'd defeat Yonkou Shanks with extreme difficulty. Shanks' Haki is nearly unrivaled, and we're going to see what a true master of CoC can do in coming arcs. In my opinion, someone's Haki must be on his level to even fight him properly, making most abilities involving DFs utterly pointless. I believe Shanks was destined to become PK, but he placed his faith in the next generation instead.


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## Zeus. (Apr 21, 2015)

By all Yonkou crews you mean past and present? Whitebeard pirates, Big Mom pirates, Kaido Pirates, Red Hair Pirates, and Blackbeard Pirates? Overkill.

Ya'll underestimate the Marines and Shichibukai. Marineford definitely was not an accurate depiction of their powers, including the Shichibukai(Mihawk dicking around, Kuma nerfed, Blackbeard leaving, two other Shichibukai absent and left). 


^ Garp's statement doesn't get anymore straightforward. The full cooperation/power of all seven Shichibukai are what make this balance possible. If we assume the Marines and Shichibukai are fighting the current 4 Yonkous(Ex Whitebeard), then it goes either way.


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## Typhon (Apr 21, 2015)

The Yonkou wank is as great as ever I see. More then half the marines' powerhouses were dicking around that entire fight. CIS off and the same won't happen. And now the Marines have beefed up.


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## Zeus. (Apr 21, 2015)

--- Breakdown ---

Sakazuki/Fujitora/Kizaru/Kuzan/Ryokugyu ---------- Whitebeard/Kaido/Shanks/Big Mom 

Mihawk/Kuma(Underrated)/Hancock(True power unknown)/Buggy + Impel Down Criminals/Doflamingo/Law/New Shichibukai(Very crucial) + HQ Vice Admirals (Momonga, Tsuru, Ronse, John Giant, Bastille, etc.) -------------- Yonkou Commanders (Ie Marco, Jozu, Ben Beckmann, etc.)

Hundreds upon thousands of elite marines --------------------- Unknown number of pirates under Yonkou banner

Is it really much of a stomp for the Yonkous? Especially it being noted by Law that the Marines have gotten considerably stronger in spite of losses on their side?


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## Extravlad (Apr 21, 2015)

1 wall is enough to stop all 4 Yonko, stop speculating.
Akainu can basically solos this, nobody else is needed, he just sit in the Plaza and destroy all the ships, nobody can reach him aside of Marco cause he can fly.


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## trance (Apr 21, 2015)

Zeus. said:


> --- Breakdown ---
> 
> Sakazuki/Fujitora/Kizaru/Kuzan/Ryokugyu ---------- Whitebeard/Kaido/Shanks/Big Mom
> 
> ...



Their increase in strength isn't being left out but it's pretty unquantifiable at this point.


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## Freechoice (Apr 22, 2015)

Trance said:


> Their increase in strength isn't being left out but it's pretty unquantifiable at this point.



Same can be said with a lot of variables in this match up though


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## Kai (Apr 22, 2015)

Typhon said:


> The Yonkou wank is as great as ever I see. More then half the marines' powerhouses were dicking around that entire fight. CIS off and the same won't happen. And now the Marines have beefed up.


Oh boy.

You're not going to like how things play out in the manga then. CIS off the whole way from now on


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 22, 2015)

Zeus. said:


> --- Breakdown ---
> 
> Sakazuki/Fujitora/Kizaru/Kuzan/Ryokugyu ---------- Whitebeard/Kaido/Shanks/Big Mom
> 
> ...



They get knocked out by a Shanks CoC blast at the start.


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## jNdee~ (Apr 22, 2015)

oh look, he gets more terrible every passing day


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## Amol (Apr 22, 2015)

Marines(as they were on MF arc) vs 2 Yonkou is a toss up.
3 Yonkou crews Mid(low) diffs WG.
4 Yonkou crew is not even a fair fight. It is literally a slaughterhouse.
Yonkou Captains don't even need to fight here.


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## Quikdraw7777 (Apr 22, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Akainu is definitely stronger than any emperor (bar Shanks/WB) in my eyes, but there are marginal differences in strength between himself and the other admirals. I think he'd need between very high-extreme difficulty to defeat people on that level, which also consists of Beckman/Marco/Old Rayleigh. The only individual who can push him to extreme-diff out of that bunch is Aokiji, so he's definitely the alpha out of them.
> 
> I estimate that Shanks is only half a tier away from Prime Roger in overall strength, making him much stronger than anyone in this generation. The only person on his level is Dragon, and I'm under the impression that he'd defeat Yonkou Shanks with extreme difficulty. Shanks' Haki is nearly unrivaled, and we're going to see what a true master of CoC can do in coming arcs. In my opinion, someone's Haki must be on his level to even fight him properly, making most abilities involving DFs utterly pointless. I believe Shanks was destined to become PK, but he placed his faith in the next generation instead.





Where did you come up with these estimations??

And again, Shanks Low/Mid diffing someone who took two quake punches at their epicenter, and fought another person on the top of the food chain for 10 days!?

No single individual alive is putting Akainu down without an *Extreme*  Difficulty fight.

He has proven that himself.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Apr 22, 2015)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> I understand the World Government loses handily, but what on earth makes you think Akainu would be this easy for Shanks?


He also thinks Shanks can mid diff Big Mom (who is supposedly weaker than Marco)...


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## Amol (Apr 22, 2015)

Ignore King Itachi.
It is really not worth it.


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## Coruscation (Apr 22, 2015)

Does it being the current Marines mean it's also the current Yonkou? Cause that makes a pretty big difference in terms of the Yonkou's power. And are Garp and Sengoku in the fight? They've officially retired from their posts and wouldn't be involved in the day to day combat operations anymore.

So that makes a couple different possible scenarios. I'll just address the single most favorable scenario possible for the Marines because it just gets worse and worse otherwise. It would look something like this:

*Marines*
Top: Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Fujitora, Green Bull, Mihawk, Sengoku and Garp (8)
High: Doflamingo, Hancock, mystery Shichi, Kuma, Law (5)
Mid: 20~ Vice Admirals, presumably some strong Buggy crewmembers (25~)
Total strong fighters: 35-40

*Yonkou*
Top: Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Teach (4)
High-top: Beckman, Shiryuu, new FM, new FM (4)
High: Lucky, Yasopp, Kaidou 3rd, Kaidou 4th, BM 3rd, BM 4th, BB 3rd, BB 4th (8)
Mid-high: _shitloads upon shitloads_ of commanders and allies. WB alone had around 60. So imagine all 4 of the Yonkou together. Well, well over 100.
Total strong fighters: 150+

Verdict: The Marines do have the advantage in a top tier pound-for-pound type contest, but the sheer numbers of the Yonkou fleets are just ridiculous. The Yonkou wins by pure swamping sooner or later; the captains and their FMs can hold off the Marine elite quite well at any rate, the Yonkou FMs are just a slight cut below them, and the 2nd/3rds outnumber the Shichis.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 22, 2015)

The Yonkou rapes. Low-Diff

Yonkou>FA+Admiral
Commanders>Shichibukai+Vice (Fodders) Admirals
Allied Captain>Fodders


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 22, 2015)

Quikdraw7777 said:


> Where did you come up with these estimations??
> 
> And again, Shanks Low/Mid diffing someone who took two quake punches at their epicenter, and fought another person on the top of the food chain for 10 days!?
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong, man. I do think Shanks would have to exert some kind of effort to ultimately kill Akainu, but his Haki is just on another level to the point where the offense he's facing doesn't matter. We've already seen how passive blasts of CoC from him can damage tangible matter. If he's covered in FBH and emitting those blasts of CoC simultaneously, he's essentially a walking shield of Haki that passively damages the surroundings and what's in his path. Sakazuki should be capable of damaging Shanks with his own Haki, but I think the strike is going to be superficial at best. He'd also need to reach Shanks with his fist, while the latter has better range with his sword in CQC - something that can slash his fist in offensive manner - so it's not that I'm downplaying the admirals or anything... You don't have to agree with me, but Shanks is just that strong in my eyes.

I've always theorized that Shanks' offensive blasts of CoC are going to resemble Shinra Tensei around him, which means someone would need Haki on his level to reach the center and fight back. If not, the individual is going to be damaged just trying to reach him.



Issho said:


> He also thinks Shanks can mid diff Big Mom (who is supposedly weaker than Marco)...



The thing is, I'm really unsure where to place BM because of how Oda treats female characters. In the past, I used to think she was formidable due to the name itself, but she's had no plot relevance in the manga. It's also possible that emperors aren't necessarily equal - which is likely to be the case - and she's just the weakest one. As of now, I don't think BM would give Shanks even mid-diff. Unless her character gains massive hype or shows the readers otherwise, she is weaker than the admirals and FMs we've seen. I can also guarantee she is going to be the first emperor that's taken down.

At Marineford, I don't recall her name being mentioned once. You've got Whitebeard w/ his crew putting their lives on the line and Shanks/Kaidou having some kind of altercation, with Red-Hair Pirates reaching the fight nearing its end. Big Mom really had no involvement in that area, though, and it's another thing that really makes me question her strength.


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## Ekkologix (Apr 22, 2015)

You don't balance out the 4 Yonkou's with Marines and Shichibukai's.

You will need Marines + World Gov't + Shichibukai to balance out the Yonkou's.

World gov't will have Kong + Gorosei + CPX and w.e.

The Shichibukai need to include the old ones aswell (Mihawk does the heavy lifting regardless). The shichibukai need to bring their crew members too.

The marines need to have their PX-Y, and customed battlefield.

I think the Yonkou would still win if they brought in their Allies tho.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 22, 2015)

@King Itachi
Man there's just no way BM is weaker than any FM.Her being female does dehype her a bit compared to the rest of the Yonkou but not even close to the point she's weaker than the 1st mates.
All Yonkou are close in strength otherwise Shanks would just go there low diff her along with the rest of her fodder crew and get rid of one of his rivals just like that.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 22, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> @King Itachi
> Man there's just no way BM is weaker than any FM.Her being female does dehype her a bit compared to the rest of the Yonkou but not even close to the point she's weaker than the 1st mates.
> All Yonkou are close in strength otherwise Shanks would just go there low diff her along with the rest of her fodder crew and get rid of one of his rivals just like that.



Shanks has no reason to kill the other emperors. 
He's pretty laid back and reasonable, only fighting when he really needs to.


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## Zeus. (Apr 22, 2015)

Trance said:


> Their increase in strength isn't being left out but it's pretty unquantifiable at this point.


The sheer amount of possible commanders and unknown allies of each Yonkou crews are what breaks the balance right here. The strongest characters of each side seem to match up pretty well tho.


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## Dunno (Apr 23, 2015)

Whitebeard > Mihawk
Shanks > Akainu
Kaido > Aokiji
Big Mom >= Kizaru
Beckman + Lucky Roo > Fujitora
Marco + Jozu + Vista > Ryokugyu
Kaido's top three commanders > Garp
Big Mom's top three commanders > Sengoku
Yassop + the rest of Shanks' crew > Doflamingo
Fodder = Fodder

The Yonkou would win with high diff or so I'd say.


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## jNdee~ (Apr 23, 2015)

Amol said:


> Marines(as they were on MF arc) vs 2 Yonkou is a toss up.
> 3 Yonkou crews Mid(low) diffs WG.
> 4 Yonkou crew is not even a fair fight. It is literally a slaughterhouse.
> Yonkou Captains don't even need to fight here.



oh look, you balance up the wank on each side.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 23, 2015)

Dunno said:


> *Old Whitebeard > Mihawk*
> Shanks > Akainu
> Kaido > Aokiji
> Big Mom >= Kizaru
> ...



I agree except for the bolded


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## Freechoice (Apr 23, 2015)

Kaido's three commanders are already confirmed weak and shit


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## Bernkastel (Apr 23, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Shanks has no reason to kill the other emperors.
> He's pretty laid back and reasonable, only fighting when he really needs to.



They're rivals ..ofc the want to take each other out...if it was such a cakewalk to take all of her territories why not grab the chance?
But anyway even if Shanks doesnt care about that Teach/Kaido/WB would certainly care and would've already trashed her whole crew if she was that weak.She wouldn't even be a Yonkou.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 23, 2015)

Typhon said:


> The Yonkou wank is as great as ever I see. More then half the marines' powerhouses were dicking around that entire fight. CIS off and the same won't happen. And now the Marines have beefed up.



Yeah this.

> Using Marineford as any sort of basis to judge this? Pls. 



The way I see it, there's three contests to this:

1) Generic fodder vs Generic fodder 

Whoever has more numbers which will be the marines here as they run nearly the entire world. WB's crew only had a thousand men and they seemed to be the largest Yonkou crew around. 

2) Mid level fighters

Doflamingo, Hancock, Kuma, Law, Seventh Shichi, Strong VA's (Onguimo etc)

WB Commanders, Yasopp, Lucky Rue, some FM's, SM's etc etc

Advantage Team Yonkou most likely

3) Top tiers:

Kuzan, Sakazuki, Kizaru, Fujitora, Ryokougu, Mihawk


Shanks, Kaido, BM, Teach, Possibly a strong FM or two like BB

Pretty much even stevens tbh. Depends on the matchup and who faces who. 

=============================================


Marines and Yonkou win one each and the other is a draw, though winning contest two is infinitely more better than winning contest one as a few free high tiers can sway the battle more than more generic fodder can. But then you then have to factor in home field advantage for the marines and how they could exploit that using the strategists (Tsuru) they have ..... walls, traps, pacifistas etc etc.  

As things stand I'd go for a very close match that could go either way but with a lean towards the Yonkou mainly because of contest two. 

However if you're going to include all Yonkou allied crews as well then I'd say a comfortable Yonkou win. You'd have to restrict it to three Yonkou crew then to make it fair.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 23, 2015)

Imagine said:


> One yonkou + his allies tore MF to shreds, bruh



So?

This also goes to the other halfwits on here who go *"herp derp Marines needed all their forces to deal with just one Yonkou"* ........... you'd have a point if MF wasn't anything other than a complete and utter stomp in favour of the marines/WG. 

The destruction of MF isn't indicative of anything. Luffy vs Doflamingo is resulting in a lot of collateral damage & city damage and neither of them are on the same level as some of the fighters present. Fact is when you have fighters of that calibre around, massive destruction is going to happen regardless of the outcome of the match, especially when one of them is wielding quite possibly the most destructive fruit around (gura gura). 

Let's see now, status updates at the end of MF:

Pirates side

- Whitebeard got the shit kicked out of him and then killed (Teach just expedited it)

- Marco got roughed up badly and really should have died were it not for PIS/CIS (no one deciding it would be sensible to take out WB's right hand man once he was cuffed, lasered and in agony. ). 

- Jozu got frozen solid and lost an arm. As good as dead. 

- Vista was emotionally distraught and fled to shoot his next porno

- The rest: Either dead or not even worth considering. 

Marines/WG

- Sakazuki got roughed up and was bleeding but was still able to continue on at the end to the extent of going up against what remained of the entire WB pirates and Crocodile by himself.

- Kuzan. Apart from that one lipbleed ...... nothing. 

- lol Kizaru. Did jack all apart from trolling a few people at opportune and hilarious moments. No injuries. 

- Garp and Sengoku twiddled their thumbs in the background doing sweet all until Teach showed up. No injuries prior to Teach. 

- Mihawk. Fodder duty before scramming once Shanks arrived. Again, zero injuries. 



As big a stomp as you'll ever see tbh. It was only the need to inject some drama and tension that forced Oda to prolong it to give it some semblance of closeness. I mean it'd be pretty boring if they marines actually decided to go all out from the very start and the WB pirates got the entire shit kicked out in a couple of chapters. 

This also resulted him adding many "convenient and contrived" moments to prolong things such as the walls not being able to be fully rise because Oars conveniently fell onto them (which stopped what would have been a slaughter) ..... or the convenient arrival of allies to help assist them at the right moments (Crocodile, Ivankov, Luffy etc etc). These plot tools are unlikely to happen again in an actual battle between the groups.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 23, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> They're rivals ..ofc the want to take each other out...if it was such a cakewalk to take all of her territories why not grab the chance?
> But anyway even if Shanks doesnt care about that Teach/Kaido/WB would certainly care and would've already trashed her whole crew if she was that weak.She wouldn't even be a Yonkou.



When Shanks has ever discussed potential threats in the world of One Piece, Teach is the only person he appears to look out for. Even when they were face to face with each other at Marineford, his bigger priority was ending the war rather than killing him. We know Shanks had more than enough power to kill BB at that point when the latter outright stated he's not ready for them, but he's not hungry for power and fights only if needed.

Shanks probably couldn't care less about the label of emperor; the name was likely given to his crew because of power alone. Unlike other emperors, he's laid back and carefree for the most part.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 23, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> When Shanks has ever discussed potential threats in the world of One Piece, Teach is the only person he appears to look out for. Even when they were face to face with each other at Marineford, his bigger priority was ending the war rather than killing him. We know Shanks had more than enough power to kill BB at that point when the latter outright stated he's not ready for them, but he's not hungry for power and fights only if needed.
> 
> Shanks probably couldn't care less about the label of emperor; the name was likely given to his crew because of power alone. Unlike other emperors, he's laid back and carefree for the most part.



Teach/Kaido/WB would have trashed her already if she was that weak.


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## Imagine (Apr 23, 2015)

Kiz you think I'm gonna read that?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 23, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> Teach/Kaido/WB would have trashed her already if she was that weak.



That weak? I never stated that BM was weak - just weaker than her fellow peers - but she still remains a top tier and can give most people around the level high-diff at the very least. I think she's just marginally weaker than the average admirals and FMs we've seen, but she can still beat them some of the time. BM still has allies and her crew; it's not like she'd be completely helpless in top-tier fights.


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## Imagine (Apr 23, 2015)

Nice effort at least


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## Bernkastel (Apr 23, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> That weak? I never stated that BM was weak - just weaker than her fellow peers - but she still remains a top tier and can give most people around the level high-diff at the very least. I think she's just marginally weaker than the average admirals and FMs we've seen, but she can still beat them some of the time. BM still has allies and her crew; it's not like she'd be completely helpless in top-tier fights.



How can a top-tier get low diffed by another top-tier.And what could her crewmembers possibly do when their captains gets low diffed?Unless you mean that she is weaker than her crew.
In your opinion what diff would BM give to WB/Teach/Kaido?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 23, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> How can a top-tier get low diffed by another top-tier.And what could her crewmembers possibly do when their captains gets low diffed?Unless you mean that she is weaker than her crew.
> In your opinion what diff would BM give to WB/Teach/Kaido?



I think Shanks is closer to Prime Roger/Prime WB than the current generation,  so he's the only person low-diffing here.

As for WB, it depends on the version we're referring to. 


Old Whitebeard (sick) defeats BM with either the lower end of mid-diff or solid mid-dif, depending on how early his sickness becomes detrimental. Old Whitebeard (sick/injured) defeats BM with around the lower end of high difficulty. I place him around the same level as Akainu/Aokiji in this state.

Kaidou defeats BM with solid high-diff, I think. 

Teach probably defeats BM with the greater end of high-diff.


So she's definitely not a fodder or pushover by any means. I just view Shanks and Dragon as powerful individuals, even among the top tiers.


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## Grimsley (Apr 23, 2015)

The former clearly lose.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I think Shanks is closer to Prime Roger/Prime WB than the current generation,  so he's the only person low-diffing here.
> 
> As for WB, it depends on the version we're referring to.
> 
> ...



For someone to low diff a top tier and not just any tp-tier but one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world he has to be on a completely differnet level and there's nothing suggesting that as Shanks is in the same group.Even Primebeard cant beat her with less than high diff.

Do you mean that Shanks could mid diff Kaido then?


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## RF (Apr 24, 2015)

2 are enough.


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## trance (Apr 24, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> So?
> 
> This also goes to the other halfwits on here who go *"herp derp Marines needed all their forces to deal with just one Yonkou"* ........... you'd have a point if MF wasn't anything other than a complete and utter stomp in favour of the marines/WG.
> 
> ...



Were it not for an unforeseen factor in the form of Oars Jr playing dead on top of one of the walls, the Marines would've won the battle handily and quickly. 

Sengoku's brains + Sakazuki's Devil Fruit + Siege Wall = God Tier battle strategy.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 24, 2015)

Meth said:


> 2 are enough.



Don't be silly, two would get destroyed quite easily as well. 

Having at least a couple of free top tiers roaming around would comfortably sway the battle. 



Trance said:


> Were it not for an unforeseen factor in the form of Oars Jr playing dead on top of one of the walls, the Marines would've won the battle handily and quickly.
> 
> Sengoku's brains + Sakazuki's Devil Fruit + Siege Wall = God Tier battle strategy.



The really egregious thing about that is why Sengoku didn't think of sending one or two of Garp, Kizaru, Kuzan, Sakazuki etc down to just kick/push Oars Jr out of the way I don't know. I'm sure they'd probably all have the raw power/strength to do it given the scale of feats they've demonstrated. Sigh ...... more BS PIS/CIS from Oda to prevent a one sided slaughter and to create drama and tension.

Also now imagine, Akainu's magmafists + Fujitora's meteor's + Kizaru's YnK hailing down on the pirates with the walls fully up  this time ............ honestly Trance, I think I may have been quite conservative before. Extravlad may be right here about this.


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## David (Apr 24, 2015)

4 Yonko and most likely a dozen Vista/Jozu-level fighters vs. color trio + Fujitora + Green Bull + Mihawk (at least 6 Admiral-level fighters) + Doflamingo + Hancock + Kuma + Law (at least 2/4, I'm guessing, are close to Jozu-level).

I'd give it to the Yonko with high to extreme difficulty.  We should remember that Marco/Jozu/Vista themselves aren't involved because they aren't currently part of a Yonko crew, and I'd put even the weaker Yonko division commanders (which there are plenty of) above your average Vice Admiral.


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## DanElectro (Apr 24, 2015)

The way I see it

MHQ + Warlords >> 1 Yonko

MHQ + Warlords > 2 Yonko

MHQ + Warlords >= 3 Yonko

MHQ + Warlords < 4 Yonko

-----

If no Warlords.

MHQ > 1 Yonko

MHQ >= 2 Yonko

MHQ < 3 Yonko

MHQ << 4 Yonko


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## Lord Stark (Apr 24, 2015)

They can likely scathe a victory against 2 Yonkou, 3 is an unholy stomp, 4?  Mother of God.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 24, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> For someone to low diff a top tier and not just any tp-tier but one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world he has to be on a completely differnet level and there's nothing suggesting that as Shanks is in the same group.Even Primebeard cant beat her with less than high diff.



I disagree. Whitebeard would slaughter most admirals/emperors in his prime. 
Sickness was the only thing holding back his full strength; the guy couldn't even use Haki properly, mind you. Imagine Negate without sickness/injuries and FBH, all the while spamming ranged quakes alongside Conquerer's Haki... The only thing combating that is Haki of supreme level.

You don't have to agree with me, but I think Shanks' Haki is far beyond what this generation is capable of dealing with. In my opinion, the only individual who can defeat him is Dragon, who is likely close to Prime Garp.

Characters w/ Haki that's absolutely monstrous belong within a tier of their own, imo



> Do you mean that Shanks could mid diff Kaido then?



Shanks defeats Kaidou with the greater end of low-diff or barely mid-diff, in my opinion. I think he's marginally weaker than Akainu/Aokiji before the timeskip and around their level after the timeskip.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I disagree. Whitebeard would slaughter most admirals/emperors in his prime.
> Sickness was the only thing holding back his full strength; the guy couldn't even use Haki properly, mind you. Imagine Negate without sickness/injuries and FBH, all the while spamming ranged quakes alongside Conquerer's Haki... The only thing combating that is Haki of supreme level.
> 
> You don't have to agree with me, but I think Shanks' Haki is far beyond what this generation is capable of dealing with. In my opinion, the only individual who can defeat him is Dragon, who is likely close to Prime Garp.
> ...


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## Bernkastel (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> I disagree. Whitebeard would slaughter most admirals/emperors in his prime.
> Sickness was the only thing holding back his full strength; the guy couldn't even use Haki properly, mind you. Imagine Negate without sickness/injuries and FBH, all the while spamming ranged quakes alongside Conquerer's Haki... The only thing combating that is Haki of supreme level.
> 
> You don't have to agree with me, but I think Shanks' Haki is far beyond what this generation is capable of dealing with. In my opinion, the only individual who can defeat him is Dragon, who is likely close to Prime Garp.
> ...



If Shanks was that godly strong then Mihawk would never last a minute against him,yet they both fought and none emerged victorious ever,showing equality.
So you mean to tell me that Shanks can low diff/mid diff Akainu?The man who fought nigh equally with WB and made BB's crew piss themselves at the thought of encountering him?


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## ShadoLord (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Shanks defeats Kaidou with the greater end of low-diff or barely mid-diff, in my opinion. I think he's marginally weaker than Akainu/Aokiji before the timeskip and around their level after the timeskip.



Wat?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 24, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> If Shanks was that godly strong then Mihawk would never last a minute against him,yet they both fought and none emerged victorious ever,showing equality.



We don't know the time period in which Shanks/Mihawk fought, but I'm going to guess it was before the beginning of One Piece - a time when Shanks probably wasn't as powerful as he is currently - and there's no way to gauge how their fights actually went. 

If anything, they were probably just friendly duels. Shanks has absolutely no reason to kill Mihawk, unless there's something I'm missing here. Their battles were never implied to be fight-to-the-death types akin to what Akainu/Aokiji participated in.

The way I look at the situation, based on the manga: Shanks and Mihawk are good friends that merely sparred in the past. Highly doubt it was anything more than that,



> So you mean to tell me that Shanks can low diff/mid diff Akainu?The man who fought nigh equally with WB and made BB's crew piss themselves at the thought of encountering him?



Teach is definitely a coward, but he's also an opportunist that would rather avoid certain situations. Granted, I think Akainu is stronger than even Current Teach, but I'd take that instance with a grain of salt; he ran away from Shanks, too, in a war of the best that could have turned into FFA. Also, Whitebeard wasn't at his best in those encounters. I'm not trying to discredit Akainu or anything, but it was made pretty clear that WB can't remain the strongest forever.



Wave said:


> Wat?



Yup.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 24, 2015)

It is impossible for a fight between Yonkou to be anything lower than high-diff. Low and Mid diff are out of the question, except maybe Prime Wb.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 24, 2015)

Wave said:


> It is impossible for a fight between Yonkou to be anything lower than high-diff. Low and Mid diff are out of the question, except maybe Prime Wb.



Kaidou is ruthless and somehow found it better to retreat from Shanks, avoiding his original objective of taking down Whitebeard (sick/weakened).

I think Shanks' Haki is beyond what Kaidou is capable of dealing with; he's not the typical emperor. Normally, I don't think Kaidou views Shanks as a threat because of his nature, though it would make sense to back off if the latter were to pursue him. I definitely wouldn't say it is impossible for someone in OP to low-diff one of the top tiers, especially when the individual's abilities consist of broken techniques that counter anything except similar output.


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## DanElectro (Apr 24, 2015)

Wave said:


> It is impossible for a fight between Yonkou to be anything lower than high-diff. Low and Mid diff are out of the question, except maybe Prime Wb.



See this is why I don't come to NF often too bad I'm banned in the other place for now...

This is the only place where retards like him get a pass in spewing shit.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 24, 2015)

Wave said:


> Wat?



There's Shanks wank .................... and then there's Shanks wank. 

Almost as bad as Gohara thinking that Shanks can low diff Sakazuki. They should form a club tbh.



DanElectro said:


> See this is why I don't come to NF often too bad I'm banned in the other place for now...
> 
> This is the only place where retards like him get a pass in spewing shit.



I'd like to think most people on here (or at least the ones worth caring about) probably realise he's spewing shit here and would probably ignore list him from here onwards. 

Flaming him to death on an internet forum for his opinion isn't really going accomplish much is it?


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## ShadoLord (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Kaidou is ruthless and somehow found it better to retreat from Shanks, avoiding his original objective of taking down Whitebeard (sick/weakened).
> 
> I think Shanks' Haki is beyond what Kaidou is capable of dealing with; he's not the typical emperor. Normally, I don't think Kaidou views Shanks as a threat because of his nature, though it would make sense to back off if the latter were to pursue him. I definitely wouldn't say it is impossible for someone in OP to low-diff one of the top tiers, especially when the individual's abilities consist of broken techniques that counter anything except similar output.


Kaidou see Shanks as surperior to himself, ok, what makes that low-mid diff for Shanks?


DanElectro said:


> See this is why I don't come to NF often too bad I'm banned in the other place for now...
> 
> This is the only place where retards like him get a pass in spewing shit.



It's no wonder you're ban, fool.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 24, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> We don't know the time period in which Shanks/Mihawk fought, but I'm going to guess it was before the beginning of One Piece - a time when Shanks probably wasn't as powerful as he is currently - and there's no way to gauge how their fights actually went.
> 
> If anything, they were probably just friendly duels. Shanks has absolutely no reason to kill Mihawk, unless there's something I'm missing here. Their battles were never implied to be fight-to-the-death types akin to what Akainu/Aokiji participated in.
> 
> ...



Anyway we have completely different opinion over that matter so let's leave it at that.


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## DanElectro (Apr 24, 2015)

Wave said:


> Kaidou see Shanks as surperior to himself, ok, what makes that low-mid diff for Shanks?
> 
> 
> It's no wonder you're ban, fool.



I said him not you. Why are you insulting me? 



Admiral Kizaru said:


> I'd like to think most people on here (or at least the ones worth caring about) probably realise he's spewing shit here and would probably ignore list him from here onwards.
> 
> Flaming him to death on an internet forum for his opinion isn't really going accomplish much is it?



Unfortunately we saw from Gohara that ignoring doesn't work because he still keeps posting despite being on the ignore list of 99% of the people here.


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## ShadoLord (Apr 24, 2015)

DanElectro said:


> I said him not you. Why are you insulting me?
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we saw from Gohara that ignoring doesn't work because he still keeps posting despite being on the ignore list of 99% of the people here.



Oh my bad, I thought you disagree with what I said. Sorry about that.


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## DanElectro (Apr 24, 2015)

Wave said:


> Oh my bad, I thought you disagree with what I said. Sorry about that.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Apr 24, 2015)

DanElectro said:


> Unfortunately we saw from Gohara that ignoring doesn't work because he still keeps posting despite being on the ignore list of 99% of the people here.



He can post as much as he wants to but he his views and opinions have pretty much zero respect and credibility on here by anyone worth giving a damn about. You can't stop people having an opinion and expressing it; that's not breaking any laws.

It's like dealing with people who deny climate change or believe that the earth is still flat ...... no amount of evidence or facts are going to sway them so it's not even worth wasting your time debating with them to try and change their minds. Just mock and ridicule them and move on tbh.


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## DanElectro (Apr 24, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> He can post as much as he wants to but he his views and opinions have pretty much zero respect and credibility on here by anyone worth giving a damn about. You can't stop people having an opinion and expressing it; that's not breaking any laws.
> 
> It's like dealing with people who deny climate change or believe that the earth is still flat ...... no amount of evidence or facts are going to sway them so it's not even worth wasting your time debating with them to try and change their minds. Just mock and ridicule them and move on tbh.



I have much to learn.


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## jNdee~ (Apr 25, 2015)

Amol actually thinks that 2 Yonkous vs the Marines + Warlords is a toss up and called me salty


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## Musefreak (Apr 25, 2015)

Well if you count not just the 4 Yonkous but also their allies then im not sure how the marines and shichibukai could win. Whitebeard and his allies held there own pretty good alone. So it would be like the Battle of Marineford but the pirates would be roughly 4x stronger then they were when Whitebeard went. Also based off the last battle Mihawk should leave once Shanks arrives and not just him several of the Warlords have ties to a Yonkou so that could possibly further weaken the Marines side.


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## Kai (Apr 25, 2015)

Having to face Whitebeard pirates and allies alone made the Marines sweat.

Having to face two Yonkou crews simultaneously was treated as the worst and most panicked case scenario.

That tells me the Marines will have to go all out to beat two Yonkou crews simultaneously.

Three Yonkou crews wipe the Marines off the map, if they cooperate with each other.

Four shouldn't even be up for debate.


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## PanicPlease (Apr 25, 2015)

All the VAs are cancelled out(and most likely easily overwhelmed) by Yonkou allied captains. So that leaves us with Aikanu, Garp, Sengoku, Kizaru, Aokiji(due to OP), Fujitora, Green Bull, and Mihawk as the top tiers on the Marine side. They also have Doflamingo(and his crew, I assume), Law, Hancock, the 7th Warlord(who might even be a top tier, we don't know), Kuma, Sentomaru, and Magellan as guys who can put up good fights. 

I think that's plenty enough to handle Whitebeard, Shanks, Beckman, Marco, Jozu, Lucky Roo, Yasopp, Vista, and the rest of their crews. 

Add in a third Yonkou and the marines lose handily though.


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## RF (Apr 28, 2015)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Don't be silly, two would get destroyed quite easily as well.
> 
> Having at least a couple of free top tiers roaming around would comfortably sway the battle.



Nope. In an open battlefield 2 crews would win.


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## Biased as Fuck (Apr 28, 2015)

What I thought mihawk was yonko level???!?!?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 28, 2015)

Biased as Fuck said:


> What I thought mihawk was yonko level???!?!?



wrong

he's easily above yonko level


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## jNdee~ (Apr 29, 2015)

No such thing as above yonko level in the current timeline


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## TheWiggian (Apr 29, 2015)

Garp Prime fists both, the marines and the pirates as a warm-up, revives Roger and kills him again.


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## Finalbeta (Apr 29, 2015)

Mihawk + Doffy + 5/6 admiral level forces > 4 yonko

but

4 yonko + crews >> marines + shichibukai


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