# Neo Acacia(toriko) vs Cell(dragonball z)



## Toaa (Aug 7, 2016)

super perfect cell and final evolution acacia 

they start 20 meters from each other 

who wins?


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

Did Toriko get some stupid power upgrades lately?


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## Kazu (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> Did Toriko get some stupid power upgrades lately?



Nothing that prevents Cell from ganking NEO.


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## Toaa (Aug 7, 2016)

cant he use tme dilation ?


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## Brolypotence (Aug 7, 2016)

Original vs Copy paste


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## Freddy Mercury (Aug 7, 2016)

Well besides a speed advantage and Neo Acacia's back channel that made it seem like the eight kings were frozen in time he has nothing that can even harm Cell.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 7, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Well besides a speed advantage and Neo Acacia's back channel that made it seem like the eight kings were frozen in time he has nothing that can even harm Cell.


he can eat him

he has the speed advantage on top of time stop so i don't see why not.
doesn't anything that's gets eaten gets erased? neo can somehow permanently erase even energy.


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 7, 2016)

This thread will get no where, unless someone has concrete stats for Cell.

Considering everything Post-Frieza - End of Buu have the exact same stats (except Vegito), this is pointless.


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## Pika305 (Aug 7, 2016)

Whats the consensus speed for Cell? If Neo puts up that back channel than he's going to have a lot of time to perform tons of attack on Cell but not sure he's shown enough that can put him down.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 7, 2016)

Pika305 said:


> Whats the consensus speed for Cell? If Neo puts up that back channel than he's going to have a lot of time to perform tons of attack on Cell but not sure he's shown enough that can put him down.




well for one Neo before his evolution was pretty much top tire destructive wise right under the eight kings.
When taking into account how powerful he was a single slap from pre evolution neo could destroy the toriko planet a few dozen times over. There's no way of telling how powerful he is post evolution, God and center.
Speed wise he should be FTL on top of time stop so he has alot to work with. The amount of damage acacia can do during time stop should be devastating.


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## Blocky (Aug 7, 2016)

But isn't Cell has more DC and Dura then Neo Acacia?
Because were talking about super perfect cell, i don't think neo acacia has anything to beat him at all.


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## Deleted member 244537 (Aug 7, 2016)

Is star/solar system level super perfect seru never going to be accepted?

Shouldn’t DB characters beyond Frieza saga be at least relativistic? Given the linear nature of kaioken, Kakarot going kaioken x20 and Frieza’a deathball being calculated to be mach 33,000?

Or does that fall under calculation stacking?


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 7, 2016)

Multipliers are in general shaky, get's even worse when you're adding multipliers onto speed feats.

I know the kaioken is specifically explained to be a linear increase in speed, power, durability, sense, etc, but I don't think its generally accepted.

Edit: Hell, even if you use kaioken multipliers and even Super Saiyan multipliers, you're still not reaching a consensus on Cell's stats. SPC Cell > Cell > MSSJ Goku > Super Vegeta > Androids > Early Super Saiyan > Final Form Frieza > Kaioken x20 Goku > First Form Frieza (using death ball speed). 

Everyone in Dragon Ball just scales off Frieza's death ball scene in DBS. Or everyone scales off Piccolo's moon busting speed (which is considered here an outlier). Vs battle wiki has Frieza saga characters at low FTL, based off ki sensing and Frieza's death beams, but that's not accepted here. 

It's just a mess of unquantified scaling.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

Suisuna20 said:


> Is star/solar system level super perfect seru never going to be accepted?
> 
> Shouldn’t DB characters beyond Frieza saga be at least relativistic? Given the linear nature of kaioken, Kakarot going kaioken x20 and Frieza’a deathball being calculated to be mach 33,000?
> 
> Or does that fall under calculation stacking?



Perfect/Super Perfect Cell should still be star level and at least relativistic roughly. Unless Toriko has that kind of power and speed, not seeing how the match changes from Cell not wiping out Neo with a blast.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Imagine (Aug 7, 2016)

They're large planet/Relativistic/FTL

No Toriko character can deal with Post-SS characters unless they have some serious hax.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> Perfect/Super Perfect Cell should still be star level and at least relativistic roughly. Unless Toriko has that kind of power and speed, not seeing how the match changes from Cell not wiping out Neo with a blast.



It's been establish that toriko characters are FTL, calc wise and backed up statement wise.
neo Acacia has a massive speed advantage, time stop, all of jirou's knocking techniques and neo's matter/energy erasing stomach. Acacia can always knock cell.

Neo acacia actually takes this, he has the techs and hax to win here.


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## Brolypotence (Aug 7, 2016)

IDK shouldn't cell be FTL


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## Brolypotence (Aug 7, 2016)

Imagine said:


> No


I mean God Form is Fucktillions times FTL and cell isn't even Relavistic just seems iffy


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## Imagine (Aug 7, 2016)

Nothing we can do. They have no feats nor do they have statements for such speed. They didn't have that level of speed until RoF.


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## Brolypotence (Aug 7, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Nothing we can do. They have no feats nor do they have statements for such speed. They didn't have that level of speed until RoF.


Well that's a huge speed upgrade for sure.


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## Blocky (Aug 7, 2016)

how is Neo acacia FTL again?


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## bitethedust (Aug 7, 2016)

Blocky said:


> how is Neo acacia FTL again?



IIRC there was a calc that put Toriko top tiers at low FTL speeds. Here


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## The World (Aug 7, 2016)

Neo Acacia is so broken he could probably eat Cell in one gulp


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

There's a pretty large disparity comparing large planet GBE with even a small star's own. How will he survive AoE?


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## Imagine (Aug 7, 2016)

He won't


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

So 1.4c vs sub-relativistic to relativistic (last I heard Perfect/Super Perfect Cell is above mach 33,000 by an unknown amount)? 

Standard distance is 20 meters anyway even if the OP didn't specify, so there's no way Neo is blitzing Cell before getting nuked because the disparity is not high enough for a blitz.


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## Roggiano (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> So 1.4c vs sub-relativistic to relativistic (last I heard Perfect/Super Perfect Cell is above mach 33,000 by an unknown amount)?
> 
> Standard distance is 20 meters anyway even if the OP didn't specify, so there's no way Neo is blitzing Cell before getting nuked because the disparity is not high enough for a blitz.


Not with speed alone but Acacia does have his back channel to assist him and slow Cell to the point where he's frozen in time (8 Kings should be significantly faster than Cell and they were slowed to such a point):



That being said, I don't know if Acacia has anything up his sleeves that could harm Cell.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

Cell can also teleport.


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## RavenSupreme (Aug 7, 2016)

cell fires a generic ki blast in the verses general direction and everyone dies. except jirou ofc. who is too boss and smacks dbz away with his dick

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## MysticBlade (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> So 1.4c vs sub-relativistic to relativistic (last I heard Perfect/Super Perfect Cell is above mach 33,000 by an unknown amount)?
> 
> *Standard distance is 20 meters anyway even if the OP didn't specify, so there's no way Neo is blitzing Cell before getting nuked because the disparity is not high enough for a blitz.*



Acacia not only holds a massive speed advantage, he has freaking time stop.
On top of the fact he can go intangible via back channel at will.
Acaica can literally hit cell a million times over and keep doing it as long as he want.
His lesser back channel can make his exsistance untraceable making him untouchable.
Acacia knows all of jirou's knocking techs
Neo can just eat cell and call it a day.
Acacia has alot of options in taking down cell, where as cell wouldn't get the chance to do anything.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

1.4c at 20 meters is not getting a blitz at that distance. Also like to see a proof of a planet level character eating a star level one with some evidence otherwise, NLF.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Aug 7, 2016)

Neo cant eat Cell because Cell is too durable for him to munch on

Neo also doesnt have all of Jirou's knocking techniques so lol at that


Fang said:


> 1.4c at 20 meters is not getting a blitz at that distance. Also like to see a proof of a planet level character eating a star level one with some evidence otherwise, NLF.


Neo's back channel allows him to slow down time enough to blitz 1.4c characters and make it look like they are statues from his point of view. He can put up the back channel nigh instantly too so Cell wont be hitting him


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

1.4c vs Mach 33,000 at 20 meters means no blitz. This is a simple concept, and in the time it takes him to do his first attack, Cell can simply blow up the area.

Energy released: kills Neo no matter what

Cell wins regardless of how long it takes


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## Roggiano (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> 1.4c at 20 meters is not getting a blitz at that distance. Also like to see a proof of a planet level character eating a star level one with some evidence otherwise, NLF.


I realized I put up the wrong page when I last replied.  This is what I meant to show:


With that Back Channel, Cell would be effectively stopped (from the perception of Neo Acacia... basically, a back channel is a pocket of space where time flows differently... in this case, Acacia can create a back channel where time travels much, much faster so that everything not in his back channel is significantly slower.  This will be particularly problematic for Cell considering that the 8 kings in Toriko, one of which is at least confirmed FTL and the rest should scale, were effectively stopped).

Also, it's kind of funny because you say energy released = Neo dead when that is exactly what's happening in this page.  The only difference is there won't be any PIS that'll power up Neo/Acacia after his back channel is done so he could tank Cell's attack.

TL;DR - Acacia is definitely capable of blitzing Cell when he combines his speed with his back channel.  Only problem is he can't actually harm Cell.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

I saw that when I went to find the correct page: but the GBE of a star is magnitudes higher then that of a planet. None of that matters because unquantifably being faster then 1.4c at that distance still wouldn't help for a blitz to be sufficient unless he was literally quantifably at least 20 times faster.

Cell can teleport.
Cell can fly.
Cell can spam casual AoE attacks that will kill Neo.

Nothing he can do but prolong avoiding it before dying.


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## Roggiano (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> I saw that when I went to find the correct page: but the GBE of a star is magnitudes higher then that of a planet. None of that matters because unquantifably being faster then 1.4c at that distance still wouldn't help for a blitz to be sufficient unless he was literally quantifably at least 20 times faster.
> 
> Cell can teleport.
> Cell can fly.
> ...


Don't you mean 200 times faster (10x for every meter apart)?  And in that case, even with the fact that Acacia should be comfortably above 5.5c (Derous's laser was calced at 5.5c.  While Acacia, during the first time, was unable to react properly to Derous's laser, Neo does succeed in reacting to Derous's laser after a power-up.  And Acacia's supposedly final form is even stronger than that form of Neo [and it is that version of Acacia that we're using here in this battle]), that would only lead him to be about 146 times faster.  Still not enough to properly blitz at this distance.

Also, it should be noted that the 8 kings, who are FTL, were practically stopped in comparison to Acacia when his back channel started.  So, someone like Cell, who is slower than the 8 kings, would appear to be stopped, just like the 8 kings, while Acacia is in his back channel.  It was really less that Acacia would be unquantifiably faster and more that characters who are FTL appeared to be stopped that I was getting at with the back channel.

Anyways, I don't disagree with the end result that you said.  All this really does is prolong the death of Acacia since he can't actually harm Cell.  I just wanted to clear up the whole deal with Acacia concerning his speed and back channel.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 7, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Neo cant eat Cell because Cell is too durable for him to munch on



he doesn't have to munch him, he can slurp him in a instant.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> Neo also doesnt have all of Jirou's knocking techniques so lol at that



he thought jirou everything he knows, he said so himself.
it's one of the reasons he was able to revert his damage knocking because he taught him everything.

Like i said, Acaica can easily knock cell completely and just slurp him afterwards.


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## bitethedust (Aug 7, 2016)

Roggiano said:


> Don't you mean 200 times faster (10x for every meter apart)?  And in that case, even with the fact that Acacia should be comfortably above 5.5c (Derous's laser was calced at 5.5c.  While Acacia, during the first time, was unable to react properly to Derous's laser, Neo does succeed in reacting to Derous's laser after a power-up.  And Acacia's supposedly final form is even stronger than that form of Neo [and it is that version of Acacia that we're using here in this battle]), that would only lead him to be about 146 times faster.  Still not enough to properly blitz at this distance.
> 
> Also, it should be noted that the 8 kings, who are FTL, were practically stopped in comparison to Acacia when his back channel started.  So, someone like Cell, who is slower than the 8 kings, would appear to be stopped, just like the 8 kings, while Acacia is in his back channel.  It was really less that Acacia would be unquantifiably faster and more that characters who are FTL appeared to be stopped that I was getting at with the back channel.
> 
> Anyways, I don't disagree with the end result that you said.  All this really does is prolong the death of Acacia since he can't actually harm Cell.  I just wanted to clear up the whole deal with Acacia concerning his speed and back channel.



I'm pretty sure the "you have to be 20 times faster" than the opponent in order to blitz them only applies to standard assumed OBD distance. If OP was to make the starting distance any different it should need other numbers. 

How we got to "20 times for 20 paces" I don't know, though.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> he doesn't have to munch him, he can slurp him in a instant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Except he can't.


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## Veggie (Aug 7, 2016)

Neocacia has the back channel to stop time for a moment and knock cell. He can't put him down with raw strength alone but the question is if he can actually eat him. 
 Toriko top tiers are still only Large Planet level, and idk if durability would help anyone(cell) avoid being eaten by one such as Neo.

That being said, if Neocacia can't eat Cell and he manages to release an attack then he'll die instantly.


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## Energy (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> So 1.4c vs sub-relativistic to relativistic (last I heard Perfect/Super Perfect Cell is above mach 33,000 by an unknown amount)?
> 
> Standard distance is 20 meters anyway even if the OP didn't specify, so there's no way Neo is blitzing Cell before getting nuked because the disparity is not high enough for a blitz.



Iwandesu's calc in the same thread puts Derous Extradimensional laser at 5.5c, and Acacia slowed down time to such an extent that made it look like time was standing still when Derous was firing said laser, was also 3 transformations ago.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

Still not enough to blitz at that distance


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## The World (Aug 7, 2016)

heh I just realized Cell could teleport out of Neo's stomach anyway


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 7, 2016)

Fang said:


> Still not enough to blitz at that distance


Since when? Last time I checked we did 20x at 20 meters and Neo is more than 20x faster.


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## Fang (Aug 7, 2016)

Okay so he blitzes and can't hurt Cell.

Then he dies.


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## Masterblack06 (Aug 7, 2016)

Neo could actually eat Cell because of how he can expand his jaws, so he could do it in one bit


He also has a solar flare that he made to counter  Crow Kings shadow sun thing


Some time compression thing


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## Fang (Aug 8, 2016)

Still doesn't compare to an actual being who possesses the power to be > star level so not seeing that option.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## bitethedust (Aug 8, 2016)

I get that NeoAcacia is faster than Cell. And I'm not up to Toriko right now, I gotta admit. But how would eating bypass the gigantic difference in DC and durability? Is it some sort of hax?


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## Veggie (Aug 8, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> I get that NeoAcacia is faster than Cell. And I'm not up to Toriko right now, I gotta admit. But how would eating bypass the gigantic difference in DC and durability? Is it some sort of hax?


That's what I'm wondering and is also Neocacia's only chance to win here. Unless he pulls something crazy in the coming chapters.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

Just a single question,

How is poking something that is star level in durability going to bypass that star level durability in the first place to hit the innard which may or may also not be star level in durability?


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## bitethedust (Aug 8, 2016)

I'm still waiting for a response on how Acacia is going to do anything to Cell. By the way people talked about him "eating" Cell I thought it was some sort of new hax ability he had.


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## Roggiano (Aug 8, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> I'm still waiting for a response on how Acacia is going to do anything to Cell. By the way people talked about him "eating" Cell I thought it was some sort of new hax ability he had.


It was more that when Neo ate stuff, it was wiped from existence rather than being sent to the world of souls to be reborn (or, in the case of Gourmet Demons, being able to find a new host).  There's nothing about it that bypasses durability (I think)... just that it would prevent reincarnation and certain levels of regeneration and stuff like that (though, for our cases, this shouldn't really matter...).

Reactions: Informative 1


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## bitethedust (Aug 8, 2016)

Roggiano said:


> It was more that when Neo ate stuff, it was wiped from existence rather than being sent to the world of souls to be reborn (or, in the case of Gourmet Demons, being able to find a new host).  There's nothing about it that bypasses durability (I think)... just that it would prevent reincarnation and certain levels of regeneration and stuff like that (though, for our cases, this shouldn't really matter...).



How does that exactly work? Does Neo's digestive system destroys thing from existence? Or something else?

Or it hasn't been explained yet?


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## Freddy Mercury (Aug 8, 2016)

Bascially if Neo ate Cell then Cell wouldn't be able to regenerate. 


Problem is Neo can't bypass Cell's durability for that to even be a factor.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Roggiano (Aug 8, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> How does that exactly work? Does Neo's digestive system destroys thing from existence? Or something else?
> 
> Or it hasn't been explained yet?


Not explained as to how it happens.  Just that it does happen and that it breaks the Law of Conservation of Energy AND some gourmet equivalent of said law (energy, matter, gourmet cells, and gourmet energy that are devoured by Neo are destroyed and cease to exist).

So, for OBD purposes, I'd say the best this can do is prevent certain levels of regeneration and certain levels of reincarnation?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Veggie (Aug 8, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Bascially if Neo ate Cell then Cell wouldn't be able to regenerate.
> 
> 
> Problem is Neo can't bypass Cell's durability for that to even be a factor.


This settles it, Cell wins.


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## Zern227 (Aug 8, 2016)

Why even make this thread? You should have at least waited for Acacia to something with his power-up


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## Toaa (Aug 8, 2016)

cant cell also spawn cell juniors?each one will have durability far above frieza and also dc


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

Then Acacia just knocks him. 
Knocking can just seal his movements.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> Then Acacia just knocks him.
> Knocking can just seal his movements.



No one answered my question


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## Iwandesu (Aug 8, 2016)

Fang said:


> 1.4c at 20 meters is not getting a blitz at that distance. Also like to see a proof of a planet level character eating a star level one with some evidence otherwise, NLF.


0.0x c is not getting blitzed by 1.4-5 c from 20 meters away ?
literally what ?
i mean even using lol relativistic it is still like 0.1x
and there is The fact He can transform ftl characters into slugs


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## Zern227 (Aug 8, 2016)

Knocking doesn't need to damage a object to work. An object just needs to "feel" the knocking. Whether or not Cell can feel the knocking is up to you guys.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

I never said damage in my question.





Zern227 said:


> An object just needs to "feel" the knocking. Whether or not Cell can feel the knocking is up to you guys.



Also going to point out that's some NLF shit right there.

 knocking is a physical attack that uses some form of vibration to stop the opponent..

it isn't some magical hax like cutting space or shit..


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## Zern227 (Aug 8, 2016)

Well knocking is a form of hax that can stop both living and non-living things. Jirou would have stopped Neo Acacia if it weren't for his curiosity by leaving his mouth unknocked.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

Zern227 said:


> Well knocking is a form of hax that can stop both living and non-living things.



Paralyzing attack isn't always hax.... there might be a version out there that is hax like mind paralysis or shit

 But knocking is really far from that kind of ability.


Knocking is just a version of an ability which is basically an attack that hit the target someplace physically to paralyze them. It's not like it acts the same way as flash's speed steal.


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## Zern227 (Aug 8, 2016)

I think being able to stop non-living things such as tornadoes and tsunamis would qualify. It even goes to the point where Jirou knocked the appetite of one of the Blue Nitro leaving him essentially dead.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Paralyzing attack isn't always hax.... there might be a version out there that is hax like mind paralysis or shit



knocking applies restraining every to aspect of said object.
His knocking can completely take away the rotation of the toriko planet.
It has nothing to do with doing damage, just stoping said object from moving.
So unless cell is physically able to stop a planet the size of toriko's planet he isn't getting out of said knocking. So there's a limit to what he can knock strength wise.
Acacia can place billions of knocking to cell and he'll be a piece of cardboard afterwards.



Zern227 said:


> I think being able to stop non-living things such as tornadoes and tsunamis would qualify. It even goes to the point where Jirou knocked the appetite of one of the Blue Nitro leaving him essentially dead.



correct, he even knocks time taking away movement from that area he knocks trapping his victim in a time loop.
His knocking are energy restraints that applies physical force to stop siad object from moving.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> It has nothing to do with doing damage, just stoping said object from moving.



I never talked about damage in the first place.





MysticBlade said:


> So unless cell is physically able to stop a planet the size of toriko's planet he isn't getting out of said knocking. So there's a limit to what he can knock strength wise.



Cell doesn't need to have the same feat as jirou.

Cell needs to have a better durability than Jirou's knocking which he has,... Star level scaling from a guy who is probably multiple times weaker than him..

Final form Frieza. which got killed by SS1

PC needs someone to be SS2 to kill him

there's a multiplier in those transformation we ignored but the disparity exist. that's why we know Perfect Cell >>> Final Form Frieza


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Cell needs to have a better durability than Jirou's knocking which he has,... Star level scaling from a guy who is probably multiple times weaker than him..



Durability means nothing to knocking, knocking is applying energy restraints to a object which applies physical stopping force. To break knocking you'll either need knowledge of it or physically being able to break free. you don't seem to get that.

all knocking deals with is stopping motion/movement.
max showing so far is stopping a planet the size of toriko's earth, anyone who can push or lift toriko's earth can break the knocking through being > toriko's earth lifting wise. that's through physical force.
they can also stacks layers upon layers of knocking to make it more difficult to break it.
Jirou can knock both living and none living objects,


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

I think you are the one who didn't get it.
  Reread your explanation.

Seriously even your own explanation agrees with what I am pointing out.



MysticBlade said:


> all knocking deals with is stopping motion/movement.



Stopping motion and movement needs you to have equal energy, to the one you are trying to stop.



MysticBlade said:


> anyone who can push or lift toriko's earth can break the knocking



again they don't need this feat, as long as they can exert an energy surpassing what jirou has shown  then they can break knocking.

there's also a point of knocking won't affect them because it has lesser energy than they normally operate on, or you would be entering NLF territory.

Final form Frieza up to DBS obviously is on the latter.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> I think you are the one who didn't get it.
> Reread your explanation.
> 
> Seriously even your own explanation agrees with what I am pointing out.



your argument is cell having greater durability means the knocking wouldn't work.
Jirou doesn't have do damage or anything, all he needs is just a touch to apply knocking.

Toriko's earth for example, he didn't had to touch the ground to apply it, he sent a shockwave throughout the planet taking away it's motion/movement. same with other none living objects that has movement. It's like yusuke spirit cuffs but to move your body you'll need to be capable of lifting the planet.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> Jirou doesn't have do damage or anything, all he needs is just a touch to apply knocking.


Durability isn't limited to physical damage.





MysticBlade said:


> shockwave



Shockwave uses energy.





MysticBlade said:


> It's like yusuke spirit cuffs but to move your body you'll need to be capable of lifting the planet.



Your example and your point isn't the same...

Spirit cuffs needs Yusuke to have the same spirit level to it.

 that's the whole purpose of it, Genkai need to speed up his acquisition and control of spirit energy to be able to fight with Toguro. Hence sending her own spirit energy inside Yusuke's body, He didn't need to physically exert anything after gaining control of genkai's spirit energy...

your example is needs people to have specific feat, which on itself is bullshit, because you don't need to lift a planet to have planet level energies to begin with...


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Durability isn't limited to physical damage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





if cell were to have 140 trillion tons of restraint on every inch of his body, can he move? if no, he get's knocks. discussion over.


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 8, 2016)

How does Cell destroy Neocacia?
Neo regen is better than cell.

And is Cell solar system level legit?


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> if cell were to have 140 trillion tons of restraint on every inch of his body, can he move?



From what I recall 140 trillion tons is only around country level in the first place...
not really sure someone could probably calc it.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 8, 2016)

He would get erased from existence, since Cells DC is far above what he has been shown to tank or eat


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> How does Cell destroy Neocacia?
> Neo regen is better than cell.



yeah it is but that'll be a NLF to assume.

Though wait, it was said that neo back then ate stars but some of the bigger stars when it went supernova killed him and that's back then when he was small. It was just stated recently that neo as he was before he ate god is stronger than he was in his prime. That's not even factoring his resurrected self after center.

neo doesn't die he comes back but that takes a long time.





shade0180 said:


> From what I recall 140 trillion tons is only around country level in the first place...
> not really sure someone could probably calc it.





toriko's earth weights way more, just going with a low estimate. Cell hasn't shown to be able to lift a million tons for that matter, so it's pointless to even calc whether he can or not.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> And is Cell solar system level legit?



No it isn't and never will be,

 unless he reappears in DBS which would probably make him universal.



MysticBlade said:


> toriko's earth weights way more, just going with a low estimate


you low estimate is so low it isn't even in the same ballpark.





MysticBlade said:


> Cell hasn't shown to be able to lift a million tons for that matter, so it's pointless to even calc whether he can or not.




Again energy is not limited to lifting,

 get that bullshit out of this place.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> you low estimate is so low it isn't even in the same ballpark.




was only making a point, cell gets knock.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> cell gets knock.



Your wank is too obvious.

 Toriko might get star level a few months from now, no need to fret about this match.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Your wank is too obvious.
> 
> Toriko might get star level a few months from now, no need to fret about this match.



it's not wank, your not understanding of how knocking works is straight up downplay.

Neo acacia has a way already of beating cell via knocking, there's no need to wait for anything. Btw, neo is star level. He ate stars in the pass. Don't know why people never brings that up.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> it's not wank, your not understanding of how knocking works is straight up downplay.



How is it downplay when the limit I explicitly used is what was shown in the series.

  Cell is on another tier.. and you are saying he will lose.

When knocking has shown a level of limit below his ability to use energies.

and your'e saying I am downplaying. When it is obviously a wank on your part.

.


MysticBlade said:


> there's no need to wait for anything. Btw, neo is star level. He ate stars in the pass. Don't know why people never brings that up.



 post the feats.

Seriously this will make the match clearer if your claim is true.

No one is against character getting stronger.

I'm just going to say currently I am on the side who doesn't like people who inflate a feat more than what was shown in their own media. I do make mistakes considering  I most of the time run on what I can recall than rechecking said feat again.


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 8, 2016)

Wait, if Neocacia is being compared to Cell then he is confirmed to be stronger than Freiza?


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Wait, if Neocacia is being compared to Cell then he is confirmed to be stronger than Freiza?



No... it's just our scaling for Frieza and anyone after him upto Kid buu is shit.

Basically

Frieza is on the same box as anyone below Kid Buu.. .it is just Cell and everyone after the Namek Saga is stronger than frieza in their own universe. Outside of it, it means jack shit because we have no idea how much stronger they are than Frieza.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> How is it downplay when the limit I explicitly used is what was shown in the series.
> 
> Cell is on another tier.. and you are saying he will lose.
> 
> ...



you're giving cell feats he doesn't have, you're wanking him just because he is star level doesn't mean he's immune to restraints way beyond what he's shown to  out of.




shade0180 said:


> post the feats.
> 
> Seriously this will make the match clearer if your claim is true.
> 
> ...



i'm to work so i'm not going to go looking for those panels, anyone who knows what i'm talking about can you post it?

a very short summary is he ate stars in the past and when he was going for galaxy to galaxy he got caught in a massive supernova that killed him for a time until he came back again. mind you all of this is pre acacia pre evolve neo.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> you're wanking him just because he is star level doesn't mean he's immune to restraints way beyond what he's shown to out of.



What?

 so you are telling me a guy who has energy control that is beyond the energy Jirou can output can not mitigate jirou's ability which work mostly on energy.

let test this

Jean grey vs Jirou's knocking.. let see how this end.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> post the feats.
> 
> Seriously this will make the match clearer if your claim is true.
> 
> No one is against character getting stronger.



Its assuming NEO is the  i guess


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

wikia example is stating planets rather than the sun is going to get eaten.

It also hasn't been proven true in the first place..

So why are you guys using it as an example.


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> What?
> 
> so you are telling me a guy who has energy control that is beyond the energy Jirou can output can not mitigate jirou's ability which work mostly on energy.
> 
> ...



it's not about energy control,

Perfect neo is way beyond everything in the toriko verse right now.
If he allowed jirou to knock him he's finish (it's a form of hax with a limit), it doesn't matter if you're way stronger or can eat stars dude. Knocking is a physical restraint that prevents movement, if you are not physically exerting equal force of the knocking. You wouldn't be able to move or break free.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> It also hasn't been proven true in the first place..



Back then we thought it was going to happen doe

I never claimed anyone in Toriko was Star-lvl either


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> wikia example is stating planets rather than the sun is going to get eaten.
> 
> It also hasn't been proven true in the first place..
> 
> So why are you guys using it as an example.



never use wiki.



countless stars.
That's pre evolve neo.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> never use wiki.



I know that's why I was questioning that point too.


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## YoungChief (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> never use wiki.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


would eating a star actually give you star level DC?


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 8, 2016)

Oh that one


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## MysticBlade (Aug 8, 2016)

YoungChief said:


> would eating a star actually give you star level DC?



That depends, though i'm not sure. Neo just can't tank one going supernova.
Though he's capable of eating a star, if anything he's pretty much confirm demon king at this point.


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## BerzerkerOverlord (Aug 8, 2016)

Neo at a weaker form emptied all the blue universe from planets and stars but that took him a long time (as in billions of years iirc) but that should still give him sufficient dc to harm cell if he stalked his hits for a long time due to speed advantage and time slow and the worst outcome for neo is stalemating cell


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## Freddy Mercury (Aug 8, 2016)

I didn't think about this before, but Neo Acacia's immortality is also a factor.

In the past Neo was killed by things like supernovas and took millions of years to revive. This time with Acacia as his host he revived instantly after death and came back stronger due to the evolution of his gourmet cells.

The supernova statement in particular implies that Cell's current DC standing might not even be enough to override current Neo's regeneration. So unless we abuse DBZ multipiers this could very well be a stalemate because neo still doesn't have any actual way to harm Cell.


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## FrozenFeathers (Aug 8, 2016)

Neo has the feat of tanking/negating Don's supernova.
Supernovas (even novas) are solar system level, so if we give Cell the best scaling, Neo still compares to Cell's output.

This match is closer than we think.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Black Leg Sanji (Aug 8, 2016)

AsarudyDons supernova wasnt anywhere near that powerful though

It would have wiped out Earth at best


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Supernovas (even novas) are solar system level



except the don's nova isn't on that scale or even level.




Freddie Mercury said:


> . So unless we abuse DBZ multipiers this could very well be a stalemate because neo still doesn't have any actual way to harm Cell.



Freddie Cell can BFR Neo..  It can help him with that which is always an option considering Neo has no real traveling feat.


and Cell did  have a feat of using It to go to the other world and back to Earth..


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## Pika305 (Aug 8, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Freddie Cell can BFR Neo..  It can help him with that which is always an option considering Neo has no real traveling feat.
> 
> 
> and Cell did  have a feat of using It to go to the other world and back to Earth..



Neo has the speed advantage here and with his back channel that can make the eight kings pretty much seem standstill mid attack its going to be hard for Cell to tag him.


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## shade0180 (Aug 8, 2016)

pretty sure IT only require you to concentrate and sense other people's Ki.

As long as Cell can time it that Neo is touching him he can work with that as we have seen that contact is only thing needed to use IT with someone else.


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## Roggiano (Aug 8, 2016)

MysticBlade said:


> it's not about energy control,
> 
> Perfect neo is way beyond everything in the toriko verse right now.
> If he allowed jirou to knock him he's finish (it's a form of hax with a limit), it doesn't matter if you're way stronger or can eat stars dude. Knocking is a physical restraint that prevents movement, if you are not physically exerting equal force of the knocking. You wouldn't be able to move or break free.


Yeah, no.  So long as you have that much energy going on in your body, you won't be knocked.


Sealed Jirou, yes, but the principles still apply to every knocking technique of Jirou's barring Knocking Time (which actually stops time...).  And therefore, it would be NLF to assume Jirou could knock someone with star level energies.

And I don't think we could just hand Acacia knocking time, either.


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## Imagine (Aug 8, 2016)

Pika305 said:


> Neo has the speed advantage here and with his back channel that can make the eight kings pretty much seem standstill mid attack its going to be hard for Cell to tag him.


Not when you have atleast planetary range and your attacks are capable of wiping out stars.


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## Darth Nihilus (Aug 8, 2016)

I wanna say Cell but really can't call it 

NEO is a bad friend

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Veggie (Aug 8, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Neo has the feat of tanking/negating Don's supernova.
> Supernovas (even novas) are solar system level, so if we give Cell the best scaling, Neo still compares to Cell's output.
> 
> This match is closer than we think.


Don's Slime supernova didn't go off and we have no idea how strong it was, other than the implication that it would wipe out all life on the planet.  So we can't actually give it Solar System stats.

Also Neocacia came back in an instant because he was in a Back channel that was being accelerated by thousands if not millions of years. That's how he died and evolved so quickly. If he died against Cell then he should take longer to comeback.


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## Blocky (Aug 8, 2016)

You really love using raiden lot, don't you shade?


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## Energy (Aug 8, 2016)

Neo's stomach is a different dimension iirc, Cell wouldn't be able to escape it. Everything that is eaten by Neo completely disappears from existence.


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## xenos5 (Aug 8, 2016)

Energy said:


> Neo's stomach is a different dimension iirc, Cell wouldn't be able to escape it. Everything that is eaten by Neo completely disappears from existence.



I don't think it was ever explained as a different dimension. Just seems like vaporization. Cell has small star level durability so Neo isn't vaporizing him.


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## shade0180 (Aug 9, 2016)

Energy said:


> Neo's stomach is a different dimension iirc, Cell wouldn't be able to escape it.



Kaio-sama's location is a different dimension. Cell didn't have a problem coming back from that.


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 9, 2016)

IT capable of going to different dimensions, including traveling through the dimensions of the afterlife.

Also everyone ITT giving SPC the same stats as First Form Frieza


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## Super Perfect Cell (Aug 9, 2016)

If Neo Acacia retains all of his Knocking knowledge, and his ability to manipulate time, then I can't see a way for Perfect Cell to beat him.

The latest chapter makes it clear that the heat of Don Slimes mini-supernova could not hurt him, implying that it went off inside of his mouth and he withstood it. Neo Acacia is not signficiantly more powerful than that version of Neo since he has eaten GOD, CENTRE and Neo itself since then.


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## Milkydean (Aug 9, 2016)

This thread makes me not wanna read Toriko anymore.This kinda leap in power is not my cup of tea.


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## Zern227 (Aug 9, 2016)

Milkydean said:


> This thread makes me not wanna read Toriko anymore.This kinda leap in power is not my cup of tea.


It probaby wouldn't have seen this much of a leap if Mitsutoshi wasn't essentially forced into the final arc because the anime botched.


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## YoungChief (Aug 9, 2016)

Milkydean said:


> This thread makes me not wanna read Toriko anymore.This kinda leap in power is not my cup of tea.


I remember when I first started reading it, and gourmet world was hyped up REALLY fucking well, I thought Toriko would have like 1000+ chapters or some shit. I still like it but the series pacing went way differently than I was expecting and hoping for. I remember back when the exploration aspect of Toriko was huge, and when the food looked actually desirable, nowadays the food porn is non-existent, I remember Toriko would go to places and eat food that made me legit jealous of him


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## Milkydean (Aug 9, 2016)

Zern227 said:


> It probaby wouldn't have seen this much of a leap if Mitsutoshi wasn't essentially forced into the final arc because the anime botched.


Yah I heard Toriko's sales took a hit.iI am on chapter 166 and the most impressive feat till now is probably that Mountain range falling of the waterfall which I guess is city level feat.But now they have some star level shit.I will probably pick it up when i feel like.


YoungChief said:


> I remember when I first started reading it, and gourmet world was hyped up REALLY fucking well, I thought Toriko would have like 1000+ chapters or some shit. I still like it but the series pacing went way differently than I was expecting and hoping for. I remember back when the exploration aspect of Toriko was huge, and when the food looked actually desirable, nowadays the food porn is non-existent, I remember Toriko would go to places and eat food that made me legit jealous of him


Damn, the only reason I stopped watching the anime after midnight.It made me hungry so fast.I always thought that the power level at most would reach country level-Continent.But it has already reached star level.Which is hard for me to digest.I really hated the power leap in Naruto too.It was so sudden and kinda shat on Naruto's ninja world development till that moment.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Keollyn (Aug 9, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> Also everyone ITT giving SPC the same stats as First Form Frieza



People are afraid of change.

Let's fight for a new tomorrow!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Crimson Dragoon (Aug 9, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> People are afraid of change.
> 
> Let's fight for a new tomorrow!


small star+++++++++++ with unquantifiably way faster than mach 33,000 speed

a new horizon awaits

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Deleted member 244537 (Aug 9, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> Also everyone ITT giving SPC the same stats as First Form Frieza



Coming soon to the OBD...FTL solar system level super perfect cell!




...for participating OBD members only.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Keollyn (Aug 9, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> small star+++++++++++ with unquantifiably way faster than mach 33,000 speed
> 
> a new horizon awaits



We will look upon that horizon with hope CD. Pure, unimaginable, hope.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## XImpossibruX (Aug 9, 2016)

Frieza Saga - small star+++

Android Saga - small star++++++++

Cell Saga - small star ++++++++++++++++++

Buu Saga - small star +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well done lads

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Brolypotence (Aug 10, 2016)

If only trunks could bust up a Galaxy or two it should help cells stats


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## Toaa (Aug 10, 2016)

krillin destroys a solar system


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## Energy (Aug 10, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Kaio-sama's location is a different dimension. Cell didn't have a problem coming back from that.



Things or people who got eaten by Neo can't be sensed anymore, not even by the insane detection abilities by the 4HK or anyone really. Likewise Cell can't sense anything from the world he disappeared from meaning he can't use instant transmission.


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## shade0180 (Aug 10, 2016)

Energy said:


> Things or people who got eaten by Neo can't be sensed anymore, not even by the insane detection abilities by the 4HK or anyone really.


NLF. DB's sensing ability is much higher than what was shown in Toriko.

  treating them  the same is practically saying an apple and a grape is the same size.


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## Freddy Mercury (Aug 10, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> NLF. DB's sensing ability is much higher than what was shown in Toriko.
> 
> treating them  the same is practically saying an apple and a grape is the same size.



what does this have to do with Neo's ability to negate regen?


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## shade0180 (Aug 10, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> what does this have to do with Neo's ability to negate regen?



Nothing, we are talking about his stomach being a different dimension..

Basically the claim is Cell can't escape Neo's stomach due to it being another dimension or something.



Energy said:


> Things or people who got eaten by Neo can't be sensed anymore, not even by the insane detection abilities by the 4HK or anyone really. Likewise *Cell can't sense anything from the world he disappeared from meaning he can't use instant transmission*.



Basically this part of the quote.


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## Toaa (Aug 10, 2016)

lol he sensed things from the afterlife while he was nearly killed i would see he can escape neos stomach though can really neo negate regen?on the level of cell?


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> what does this have to do with Neo's ability to negate regen?


He can negate regeneration and even erase souls so that's that.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

Acacia wins with speed and ridiculous hax advantage.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gordo solos (Sep 17, 2016)

This is an old thread


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

Gordo solos said:


> This is an old thread


I was tempted seeing old posts siding with Cell

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xenos5 (Sep 17, 2016)

The sheer DC/durability difference is enough to where Cell could just put a Ki Shield up (or his aura) like he does here  and Neocacia would be passively killed by it. 

If Neocacia even wastes a second and tries to bite into Cell instead of eating him whole, Cell will have the opportunity to fodderize him.


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> The sheer DC/durability difference is enough to where Cell could just put a Ki Shield up (or his aura) like he does here  and Neocacia would be passively killed by it.
> 
> If Neocacia even wastes a second and tries to bite into Cell instead of eating him whole, Cell will have the opportunity to fodderize him.


Considering how arrogant Cell, he will not put it up from the beginning.


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## Roggiano (Sep 17, 2016)

Hit The Badass said:


> Considering how arrogant Cell, he will not put it up from the beginning.


Remember that standard battles in the OBD, unless stated otherwise, are IC and blood-lusted.

Also, his ability to negate regeneration would only assist him if he can even hurt the opponent (he can't eat an opponent that's too durable for him to chomp and chew in the first place).  I believe Neo being star level is still under debate so until that's cleared up, the sheer difference in his DC and Cell's durability is far too great for Neo Acacia to harm Cell.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Brolypotence (Sep 17, 2016)

Acacia can't bite this


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## Muah (Sep 17, 2016)

Suisuna20 said:


> Is star/solar system level super perfect seru never going to be accepted?
> 
> Shouldn’t DB characters beyond Frieza saga be at least relativistic? Given the linear nature of kaioken, Kakarot going kaioken x20 and Frieza’a deathball being calculated to be mach 33,000?
> 
> Or does that fall under calculation stacking?





Suisuna20 said:


> Is star/solar system level super perfect seru never going to be accepted?
> 
> Shouldn’t DB characters beyond Frieza saga be at least relativistic? Given the linear nature of kaioken, Kakarot going kaioken x20 and Frieza’a deathball being calculated to be mach 33,000?
> 
> Or does that fall under calculation stacking?



The problem is dbz has no consitency after freeza. The only thing worse in consitency is dbs and one piece. Toriko has great consistency.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

Muah said:


> The problem is dbz has no consitency after freeza. The only thing worse in consitency is dbs and one piece. Toriko has great consistency.


agreed. Goku blown up by Cell planet level self destruct is good example of it .


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## Toaa (Sep 17, 2016)

^ i puked blood.it doesnt have consistency my ass.the scaling is perfectly clear


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## Hit The Badass (Sep 17, 2016)

yujiro said:


> ^ i puked blood.it doesnt have consistency my ass.the scaling is perfectly clear


Just like Trunks able to fight against Zamasu while the latter was handling Ssb Goku, yeah right


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## Toaa (Sep 17, 2016)

I was speaking abou dbz as this is the stuff in this ghread


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## MysticBlade (Sep 17, 2016)

Roggiano said:


> Also, his ability to negate regeneration would only assist him if he can even hurt the opponent (he can't eat an opponent that's too durable for him to chomp and chew in the first place).




the thing is with that, neo just doesn't negate regen. He erases things from existence.

This has been stated before, everything neo eats is erased matter and energy.

It was confirmed by acacia himself that neo's stomach is a separate dimension a kind to moon's.

Moon's stomach is linked to the world of the dead.
If eaten by moon, you automatically lose your soul because it was stated that only the spirit can survive in there. Flesh and physical matter cannot survive because a trillion years can go by in just a second because there is no time there which means unless you have a age span of hundreds of billions of years to trillions you wouldn't even last a second. The world of the dead goes on to infinity.

acacia developed this resistance in deer kings back channel.
cell does not have this resistance.

Neo acacia said moon's stomach and his are the same but on a flip side, whatever neo eats is complete erased and has a greater capacity of space.

midora using MW couldn't regen his hand because that part and space that was eaten was completely erased. It's not some anti regen shit, it erases shit from existence.
It's the reason why he could've ate trillions of trllions of stars back then.

where do you suppose all that energy went? it was erased.
If neo's stomach can handle that much energy, everything cells does will be eaten.
and that was a far weaker version of NEO.

this neo surpasses that neo who did that by leaps.

Cell can not survive outside time and space, case closed.


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