# Father(FMA) vs Bleach and One Piece Verses.



## Pseudo (Sep 24, 2011)

Intent:To Kill.

Location:Where Aizen fought Ichigo.

Distance: 100 meters

Restrictions: Father's transmutation barrier. 


Scenario1: He fight the Bleach verse.

Scenario 2: One Piece Verse

Scenario:3: He fight both verses.

How does he fare without his transmutation barrier?


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## SpaceMook (Sep 24, 2011)

Wrong section.

And Father stomps.


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## Pseudo (Sep 24, 2011)

Without his transmutation barrier?


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## Dandy Elegance (Sep 24, 2011)

Suns, suns everywhere.


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## EpicBroFist (Sep 24, 2011)

Fathers throws a sun at them ..... GG


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## Bioness (Sep 24, 2011)

He makes a sun and blows everyone up while he regenerates with millions of lives left.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

Did he ever blow anything up with the suns that he creates?


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## Pseudo (Sep 24, 2011)

Wouldn't he get blitzed before he could throw it? Remember, he doesn't have the barrier to automatically protect him. You think his regular alchemy should be able to hold them off?


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

ThePseudo said:


> Wouldn't he get blitzed before he could throw it? Remember, he doesn't have the barrier to automatically protect him. You think his regular alchemy should be able to hold them off?



Yea, people like Kizaru should have no problem killing him over and over again but meh for some reason people ignore Fathers speed disadvantage. Don't know why but they do.


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## Francesco. (Sep 24, 2011)

New chair's incoming.


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## zer0light (Sep 24, 2011)

rubber chair, lava chair, light chair, ice chair. white beard turns into a message chair lolz. smoker chair has a built in ashtray.


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## Majinvergil (Sep 24, 2011)

2 verses full of chairs.


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## NeoKurama (Sep 24, 2011)

He solo's.


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## Engix (Sep 24, 2011)




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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

His transmutation barrier is absent in this match people.


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## Engix (Sep 24, 2011)

Shut up Phantom


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Yea, people like Kizaru should have no problem killing him over and over again but meh for some reason people ignore Fathers speed disadvantage. Don't know why but they do.



Because he can kill father millon of times with one attack, right?


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

Father already soloed the HST


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## Bender (Sep 24, 2011)

to quote GOW 3 Helios: "FEEL THE POWER OF THE SUN"


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## Agmaster (Sep 24, 2011)

Genjutsu oh wait, Kyoka Suigetsu.  Father vapes a whole lotta nothing while getting BFR'd.  Lest your saying he opens his eyes, knowing the full number of people and locations he is against and perfectly creates suns to destroy people that will be a threat to him.  Yeah, no.


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

Agmaster said:


> Genjutsu oh wait, Kyoka Suigetsu.  Father vapes a whole lotta nothing while getting BFR'd.  Lest your saying he opens his eyes, knowing the full number of people and locations he is against and perfectly creates suns to destroy people that will be a threat to him.  Yeah, no.



Or he just throws one sun that will kill anyone in the nearby, or becomes a mountain sized giant and literally stomp them.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Or he just throws one sun that will kill anyone in the nearby, or becomes a mountain sized giant and literally stomp them.



Implying that his supersonic reaction speed will allow him to throw anything before he is constantly bombarded to death with town level blasts.

Kill a million times? Yea but the way you describe it makes me believe you exxagerate his capabilites.
When you kill him, he still has to regenerate. Since when will bloodlusted characters who are faster than him will allow him to do so?

The only thing father will see in this fight is a giant old dude with a white mustache, killing him over and over and over again before he even motions his arm to create a sun due to being massivley slower than him.


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Implying that his supersonic reaction speed will allow him to throw anything before he is constantly bombarded to death with town level blasts.


There are like two, three at most characters with town level destructive capacity in the HST, and good thing, father has regen.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Kill a million times? Yea but the way you describe it makes me believe you exxagerate his capabilites.


He had half millon even before absorbing  Amestris souls.


Uncle Phantom said:


> When you kill him, he still has to regenerate. Since when will bloodlusted characters who are faster than him will allow him to do so?


Not Really, father, unlike the rest of the homunculus doesn't have a defined form, so most of the attacks aren't going to do much to him, and is not like he needed much time to regen, or move at all to use alchimey.



Uncle Phantom said:


> The only thing father will see in this fight is a giant old dude with a white mustache, killing him over and over and over again before he even motions his arm to create a sun due to being massivley slower than him.


Because Whitbeard has enough stamina to kill him until he runs out of souls, right?


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## Spirit King (Sep 24, 2011)

Wait do we eve know if Father's durability allows him to survive the explosion of his mini sun at close range? Because if it doesn't it's really pretty uselessfor him at close range.


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

Spirit King said:


> Wait do we eve know if Father's durability allows him to survive the explosion of his mini sun at close range? Because if it doesn't it's really pretty uselessfor him at close range.



He was planing to use the mini sun against guys that were just a few meters from him, if he couldn't tank or regen from the explosion there would be no point in him creating a minisun.


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

Do we even have feats for the mini sun?


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2011)

its a mini sun  it would cause a mini supernova


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

hammer said:


> its a mini sun  it would cause a mini supernova



It's not an actual mini sun, but that's how i was called in the manga, and it's shorter than "Shiny ball made from nuclear fusion".



Drayden said:


> Do we even have feats for the mini sun?


It's safe to assume that it's at very least city level considerinf the size that father was able to reach.


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

No one really knows how powerful it is.


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## Engix (Sep 24, 2011)

Drayden said:


> Do we even have feats for the mini sun?



It was awesome, thats the feat


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> It's not an actual mini sun, but that's how i was called in the manga, and it's shorter than "Shiny ball made from nuclear fusion".


fair enough


Drayden said:


> No one really knows how powerful it is.



how much do you know about nuclear fusion


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

hammer said:


> fair enough
> 
> 
> how much do you know about nuclear fusion



Some. Anyway if we never saw i in action then we can't quantify it.


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2011)

ofcourse you can you can measure its size and calculate what happens if he did something like split an atom


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## Samavarti (Sep 24, 2011)

Drayden said:


> Do we even have feats for the mini sun?



We know that Kimbleey with a phlosopher stone wa multy city block buster, we know that father was able to become a mountain sized giant   and we know that the Minisun was made from nuclear fusion, so it's pretty safe to assume that the Minisun should have been at very least city level.


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

Making a tiny sun means splitting an atom?


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## Light (Sep 24, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> We know that Kimbleey with a phlosopher stone wa multy city block buster, we know that father was able to become a mountain sized giant   and we know that the Minisun was made from nuclear fusion, so it's pretty safe to assume that the Minisun should have been at very least city level.



Ah ok then


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## hammer (Sep 24, 2011)

Drayden said:


> Making a tiny sun means splitting an atom?



why wouldnt he be able to split an atom if alchamy is construction and deconstruction.(with a phlisopher stone)

plus he has a shit ton phlisopher stones


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## SHM (Sep 24, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> He was planing to use the mini sun against guys that were just a few meters from him, if he couldn't tank or regen from the explosion there would be no point in him creating a minisun.



Maybe he did it because he knew his transmutation-barrier would protect him from the 'sun'.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> There are like two, three at most characters with town level destructive capacity in* the HST*, and good thing, father has regen.



Ulquiorra, Whitebeard, Hachibi, Kyuubi,Pein,Luffy(based on a recent calc), Dangai Ichigo,Ace,Blackebeard,Aizen all have town level destructive capacity. 

This is also disregarding the fact that logical powerscaling puts the 3 admirals, as well as Shanks, easily at town level.



> He had half millon even before absorbing  Amestris souls.


Cool.



> Not Really, father, unlike the rest of the homunculus doesn't have a defined form, so most of the attacks aren't going to do much to him, and is not like he needed much time to regen, or move at all to use alchimey.



Scans of him using alchemy while regenerating from attacks that overwhelm his shown level of damage soak.



Alot of this comes of as Argument of Belief so I have to ask you to prove it.



> Because Whitbeard has enough stamina to kill him until he runs out of souls, right



What makes you think he doesn't?


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## Orochibuto (Sep 24, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> His transmutation barrier is absent in this match people.



Too bad he has million of lives. In fact it is curious because lacking the weakest HST (Naruto) is the biggest disadvantage him. With speedblitz they could maybe find a way to if not kill him seal him. But NV isnt here so no sealing.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 24, 2011)

HST needs to perfectly stike him without missing MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of times. Father only needs ONE attack and it is over.

The odds arent in their side. They fail just once and it is over.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 24, 2011)

Shishigawara (that Fullbring fodder kid) soloes with Jackpot Knuckles, making Father's PS malfunction and release all of its souls.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 24, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> HST needs to perfectly stike him without missing MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of times. Father only needs ONE attack and it is over.
> 
> The odds arent in their side. They fail just once and it is over.



How is he going to get the attack off?

Is Bleach or One Piece verse commanded to stop thier bombardment to let him get it off or am I missing something here?


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Whitebeard, Hachibi, Kyuub


Fixed.



Uncle Phantom said:


> This is also disregarding the fact that logical powerscaling puts the 3 admirals, as well as Shanks, easily at town level.


Who again are not enough to kill him more than one millon of times, before he thorws them a mini sun or turn them into chairs.




Uncle Phantom said:


> Scans of him using alchemy while regenerating from attacks that overwhelm his shown level of damage soak.


He just need a thought to use alchemy, why it would matter at all the state of his body?
Also he is fighting three verse is each character all the characters use all their attacks with big AOE they are just going to kill a big ammount of character of their side, making thing easier for father.



Uncle Phantom said:


> What makes you think he doesn't?


Because he has never showe such leves of stamina.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> > Fixed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sonic546 (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> ]
> 
> Well then it looks like you got a few calcs to refute, starting with Ulquiorra's Cero Obscuras
> 
> ...



What the hell is this?

Father turns them all into chairs.


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## hammer (Sep 25, 2011)

father is just a fucking ball of mass how the fuck can they manage to hit something that has no defined form


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## Engix (Sep 25, 2011)

I am the chair for my butt.
Wood is my body and pillow is my head.
I have been a chair for over 1000 people.
Unknown to farts
Nor known to shit. 
Have withstood the pain of fat asses.
Yet i still live on 
So, as
I pray-"Unlimited Chair Works"


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## Akabara Strauss (Sep 25, 2011)

Father takes this. 

Even without the transmutation barrier, he can still transmute without moving. He still turns them to chairs.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

> I also love how you guys arent bringing up the fact that Father cant even hold his God form



someone hasn't read fma


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually, he only started having difficulties holding in God after Hohenheim did his little 'soul trick' and tore out the souls of Amestris so that Father was left with only the half a million souls he absorbed many many years ago and that wasn't enough to hold in God. If Hohenheim hadn't done that, Edward, Alphonse, Mei, Izumi, Roy, Hohenheim and whoever else was there would have all been blown up by his small sun.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

exactly. which is a major plot point in the climax. the rentanjutsu circle disrupted father's control over the souls of amestris. but this idiot thinks he had trouble before that, > hasn't read fma


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## Lord Raizen (Sep 25, 2011)

This thread is completely ridiculous as usual.

Father has never shown the ability to spam mini suns, and he's never shown the ability to use nuclear fusion as a destructive attack.

@Samavarti : What you're speaking are complete lies and exagerations.


1) He had a very good reason to summon the "mini sun", which is exactly the reason he gave. Father was gloating. He stated that he had the power of God, and the power of creation in his hands. 

He was not speaking in terms of destruction, and there's no reason to suggest that he planned to actually use it to kill his opposition since, you know,* he didn't do it*.

2) Father does not have the reaction speeds to block all of the attacks from his opposition.

3) Even if Father keeps up a constant shield, his philosoper's stone will burn out long before he manages to defeat many of the fighters.

I don't know why people over look the fact that Father's stone was burnt out just from defending against the attacks from a handful of fighters and the military force of Central.

You think this level of opposition wouldn't be easily replicated if Father were dropped into, say, Marine Ford?

Father gets overwhelmed. 

*Stop wanking his mini sun.

Stop wanking his protective barrier.

Stop lieing about his speed.

Stop acting as if his endurance is indefinite.*

Father is not solo'ing is not solo'ing the HST.

He is not solo'ing One Piece verse of Bleachverse.

It's arguable that even Narutoverse could overwhelm him unless he has prep.


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## Agmaster (Sep 25, 2011)

I have yet to read anything that denies he can be mindfucked via illusions and BFR'd.


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## sonic546 (Sep 25, 2011)

My jelly sense is tingling.


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## HiroshiSenju (Sep 25, 2011)

Most of Father's God form feats are speculative, indeed; however, Lord Raizen, you are wrong on one point.

Father clearly had the intention of killing them with his mini-sun.

_attire of the Marines_
_attire of the Marines_

"I wanted to avoid destroying this place"
"Begone, alchemist". You know, phrases you would say to someone you're about to unleash an attack against 

Anyway, Father's feats without God are decent at best, but his full potential with God is largely speculative. We know that he was much weaker with only 500,000 souls to contain God, as he was in a great struggle with the power of god. We know father casually creates building-level blasts, which even Hohenheim had trouble deflecting, casually with one finger.

_attire of the Marines_
_attire of the Marines_
_attire of the Marines_

But again, his power is largely speculative. However, depending on how he's placed in the verses (if it's all out, 1 vs. 1000 (figuratively speaking)) or if he's dropped in the verses without their knowledge of him being there.

Father can always make people into philosopher's stones, and once he's targeted you, the only way for him to be stopped is for someone who's not being affected to assault him.


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Lord Raizen said:


> This thread is completely ridiculous as usual.
> 
> Father has never shown the ability to spam mini suns, and he's never shown the ability to use nuclear fusion as a destructive attack.



_attire of the Marines_


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## kernel altin (Sep 25, 2011)

i think the hst take this


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

oh look it's more people who haven't read fma


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## Agmaster (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh look, it's people who think quality of writing determines level of power or combat effectiveness.  Take off your hater vision for the duo.


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Agmaster said:


> Oh look, it's people who think quality of writing determines level of power or combat effectiveness.  Take off your hater vision for the duo.



What the fuck are you talking about, no one has brought FMA quality as argument, and you haven't provided a single solid argumet so far, of why FMA would lose.


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## Lord Raizen (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Link removed



Yea, He didn't do anything in that instance.

He threw no sun, he destroyed nothing and we've no reason to believe that he could've used that to destroy everyone and then return from the blast.

He spoke of how he could create a sun with the power of God, just as I said.

That doesn't mean that this was the method he intended to kill them with, as that's not what he said.

The fact that he created a sun is simply being used as a catalyst for the numerous assumptions that are simply wishful thinking.

So when you want to find scans that actually prove that he can do all of the things that he's been claim to do, then I'll gladly concede, but I have a strong feeling that this not going to happen.



Lucaniel said:


> oh look it's more people who haven't read fma



Yea, Ive caught up with the series and after much consideration, Ive determined that you're full of shit.

Father isn't solo'ing anything.

The very fact that his philosopher's stone can be overloaded by a handful of superhuman fighters and military artillery/gun fire is proof enough that he isn't walking through a verse like One Piece or Bleach, and whiping out everyone.

Unless he's lucky enough to fight only a small number of characters at at time, and even still there are several characters that could take him alone, before he even has time to put his shield.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

so he creates a miniature sun, says 'I wanted to avoid destroying this place, but I can always reconstruct it afterwards", then says "releasing this in my current state would be a risky gambit" after being destabilised, and with all that, you're still pretending he wasn't going to release it as an offensive attack?

you are either desperately lying, or dumb as a box of rocks


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## Black Leg Sanji (Sep 25, 2011)

Proof that anyone in OP and Bleach can tank a mini-sun

Or put down someone that has millions of lives



Even then, before he aquired his God Form he was intangible and mountain-sized


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## Narcissus (Sep 25, 2011)

Lord Raizen said:


> Yea, He didn't do anything in that instance.
> 
> He threw no sun, he destroyed nothing and we've no reason to believe that he could've used that to destroy everyone and then return from the blast.
> 
> ...



Of all the bad arguments I've ever seen you make, this is one of the worse. Father says that he intended to destroy them with the mini sun.

He was unable to do so be Hohenheim used prep to strip him of his souls, extremely weakening him.

You do not get to sit there and throw away valid character statements without a proper reason, which you have not provided.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Sep 25, 2011)

Honestly, his Giant form should be enough 

God form is just too much


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## locotoooo (Sep 25, 2011)

God form Father has the 50,000,000 souls of Amestris; even without his transmutation barrier they cant kill him before he either nukes them with his mini-sun or stomps them by growing country-sized. Seriously after all the ''Father vs HST'' threads you would think this should  be clear by now.


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## Agmaster (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> What the fuck are you talking about, no one has brought FMA quality as argument, *and you haven't provided a single solid argumet so far, *of why FMA would lose.


How does transmutation protect him from BFR and illusions?  FMA severely lacked mindfucking.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

enjoy trying to mindfuck a consciousness which can control 50 million individual minds


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Agmaster said:


> How does transmutation protect him from BFR and illusions?  FMA severely lacked mindfucking.



How illusion prevent father from thowing and Omidirectional Mini sun.

And he can just turn into his giant form, since no HST character can BFR mountains.


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## Juri (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> How illusion prevent father from thowing and Omidirectional Mini sun.
> 
> And he can just turn into his giant form, since no HST character can BFR mountains.



Could I see feats for the mini sun? Just curious.

Does it expand? how fast does it move?


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Cycloid said:


> Could I see feats for the mini sun? Just curious.
> 
> Does it expand? how fast does it move?



Is made from nuclear fusion, so it would probably act like any other normal nuke.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

before someone feels like jawing about this: the feats for the mini-sun are, pretty much, being recognized as nuclear fusion, it never went off because father was destabilized and reabsorbed it, saying it would be a 'risky gambit' (implying destruction he couldn't regen from) to release it now


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Still not seeing how a supersonic fighter will not be overwhelmed by people who are far faster than him, and can spam multi-city block attacks.

People keep stating actions for Father while ignoring all of his actions will be hindered by the two bloodlusted verses here.

I would love to see Father try and transfom while the likes of Whitebeard is quaking him in the face with enough force to split an island.

And yet there have been no arguments why a hypersonic Urahara can't seal Father.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2011)

Is the Sun feat really accepted?

He never actually "used" the sun as a weapon.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 25, 2011)

> 'risky gambit' (implying destruction he couldn't regen from)



I think it's more than the regeneration and recovery itself would drain too many of Father's souls - to the point where he wouldn't be able to contain 'God' rather than just not being able to regenerate from it.



> And yet there have been no arguments why a hypersonic Urahara can't seal Father.



Not saying it wouldn't work, but the seal only works when Urahara successfully performs his kidou. Said kidou seemingly needs to be chanted to work against stronger opponents and the sealing (according to Urahara) only occurs when certain conditions were met. In Aizen's case, it was when the orb began to reject him. In this case I guess it would be when God starts to reject Father, though if it gets to that point, the two verses could probably defeat him anyway.


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## Narcissus (Sep 25, 2011)

kyrax12 said:


> Is the Sun feat really accepted?
> 
> He never actually "used" the sun as a weapon.



Yes it is.

He intended it to be used as a weapon, but was only stopped.


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Still not seeing how a supersonic fighter will not be overwhelmed by people who are far faster than him, and can spam multi-city block attacks.
> 
> People keep stating actions for Father while ignoring all of his actions will be hindered by the two bloodlusted verses here.
> 
> ...



He was going to regen from his Mini Sun, what are some Multy Ciyblock attakc going to do to him, unless you think Kimbley would beat father.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

> I think it's more than the regeneration and recovery itself would drain too many of Father's souls - to the point where he wouldn't be able to contain 'God' rather than just not being able to regenerate from it.



he had become unable to contain god the moment the ritual destabilised him, hadn't he? and furthermore the sun would have killed them all, so it's not as if he'd need to fight anyone else after releasing it. i think it's much more plausible that he thought the sun would kill him too


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 25, 2011)

I don't think a miniature sun would be able to wipe out ~500,000 lives on top of high level regeneration. 

Didn't he form the sun before the ritual released the newly absorbed soups anyway? I'm pretty sure Hohenheim did the ritual after the sun was formed.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

If Father himself thinks the mini "sun" would kill him, why would he even use it in this match, let alone spam the thing?


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## locotoooo (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> If Father himself thinks the mini "sun" would kill him, why would he even use it in this match, let alone spam the thing?



He didn't use it because they stripped him of all the souls of Amestris he had absorbed and therefore had to use the ones he had left to keep ''god'' under his control, thats why it would be risky for him to exert too much power.

God form Father is him with the souls so that's not an issue here.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

> He was going to regen from his Mini Sun, what are some Multy Ciyblock attakc going to do to him, unless you think Kimbley would beat father.



So when the figh starts, 

Ulqiorra throws a town level lance

Whitebeard sends a island splitting quake

Dangai Ichigo spams hill vaporizers

Aizen sends a town buster via 12 multi city block busters

All of these attacks land before Father reacts becuse he is massively slower than the top tiers of both verses here.

Since these attacks hit before he percieves anything, Urahara seals him when he is nothing more than an immortal mush on the ground.

Why does this scenario not work? He can't even defend himself due to how slow he is.


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> So when the figh starts,
> 
> Ulqiorra throws a town level lance
> 
> ...



Except the town lance would kill and hurt the other characters that are anywhere near the Lanze AOE radious, and that unlike father can't regen.

The only reasson that the seal worked on aizen is thank due the fact that he was very weak because his fight with ichigo, because Aizen at his best was to powerfull to seal, Father is a lor more powerfull than Aizen, what makes you think that the seal would work.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Except the town lance would kill and hurt the other characters that are anywhere near the Lanze AOE radious, and that unlike father can't regen.
> 
> The only reasson that the seal worked on aizen is thank due the fact that he was very weak because his fight with ichigo, because Aizen at his best was to powerfull to seal, Father is a lor more powerfull than Aizen, what makes you think that the seal would work.



Who gives a shit if it hurts the other characters. Everybody with higher reaitsu than Ulquiorra will survive and logia/haki fighters worth a damn in One Piece will as well.

Because he will be weakened by the onslaught of town level attacks? Therefore the seal should work.
One CO from Ulq and a quake from WB should do the trick. 

Also, if you don't like the Ulquiorra's lance tactic, he could always use the much faster Cero Obsucras, which is also calced at town level. Actually he is more likely to use this than the lance anyway.

Are you caught up with the recent chapters of the HST?


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## Basilikos (Sep 25, 2011)

Nothing even remotely similar to this has ever been done before.


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## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Who gives a shit if it hurts the other characters. Everybody with higher reaitsu than Ulquiorra will survive and logia/haki fighters worth a damn in One Piece will as well.


Because there are plenity of characters with town level durability in the HST, right?



Uncle Phantom said:


> Because he will be weakened by the onslaught of town level attacks? Therefore the seal should work.
> 
> Are you caught up with the recent chapters of the HST?



Does the town leve attack remove all his souls?, No
Does the the attack make him lose control of god? No
Does the attack makes him weaker? No

So again how is the seal thin supossed to function, even is he is body is destroyed (that is kinda hard since it dosen't even has a defined form) his power is still the same.


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## Lucaniel (Sep 25, 2011)

> Everybody with higher reaitsu than Ulquiorra will survive



don't try and slip that bullshit in unnoticed, unless they have town level durability feats, no they do not


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Lucaniel said:


> don't try and slip that bullshit in unnoticed, unless they have town level durability feats, no they do not



So, Cero Obscuras can kill 3rd from Aizen, then?


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Because there are plenity of characters with town level durability in the HST, right?



All who matter will survive it. Like Ulquiorra, Aizen, Ichigo, 3 Admirals, WB etc.

It doesn't matter if 95% percent of both verses are destroyed by WB or Ulquiorra as they are fodder in this match anyway.

Why do you keep bringing this up? HST doesn't need numbers to win. Quality or quantity is the theme here.




> Does the town leve attack remove all his souls?, No
> Does the the attack make him lose control of god? No
> Does the attack makes him weaker? No



Scans of him not losing souls when he is killed.

Scans of him shrugging off town busters.



> So again how is the seal thin supossed to function, even is he is body is destroyed (that is kinda hard since it dosen't even has a defined form) his power is still the same.



It seals you. The reason why it didn't work on Aizen immidiately because his reaitsu was to high at that point. It's safe to say that if your reaitsu is lower Urahara's at any given point in time, you are getting sealed.


----------



## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> All who matter will survive it. Like Ulquiorra, Aizen, Ichigo, 3 Admirals, WB etc.


Ulquiorra has not town buster feats out of Las Noches anyway, and it's not like he could spam them, but Whitbeard has not town durability.



Uncle Phantom said:


> UlquiorraIt doesn't matter if 95% percent of both verses are destroyed by WB or Ulquiorra as they are fodder in this match anyway.


Even if top tiers thay can survie their own teammates attakcs, they are still going to recive damage from them, making things even easier for father.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Scans of him not losing souls when he is killed.


He is not going to loose more than one millon of sould just for one attack.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Scans of him shrugging off town busters.


He was going to regen from a citybuster attack






Uncle Phantom said:


> It seals you. The reason why it didn't work on Aizen immidiately because his reaitsu was to high at that point. It's safe to say that if your reaitsu is lower Urahara's at any given point in time, you are getting sealed.


Father >>>> Aizen by much, so if the seal didn't work on aizen isn't going to work on father neither.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Ulquiorra has not town buster feats out of Las Noches anyway, and it's not like he could spam them, but Whitbeard has not town durability.



Well I guess spam wouldn't be the right word for it but he can use it over and over again seeing at it is a casual ordeal for him. And we can't quantify how miniscule or how massive the boost was, so it's best to not bring it up. It could be enough to matter or it could be tiny.

Whitebeard clearly has town level durability given that much weaker characters can survive town level attacks. What are you talking about? 




> Even if top tiers thay can survie their own teammates attakcs, they are still going to recive damage from them, making things even easier for father.



It's not going to make it easier for Father as he is the focus of the assault. 

The fact that the warriors who matter here are hypersonic, escaping the AOE will be childsplay for them since they are not the targets here. 

Logias explain themselves.





> He is not going to loose more than one millon of sould just for one attack.



Who said one? Surely you didn't think the onslaught would stop after just one attack? These people are bloodlusted. They could give less than a shit about letting Father have his chance to attack. They are trying to stomp his ass ot the ground. No mercy.



> He was going to regen from a citybuster attack




The fact that the character in question was arrogant and had no way of knowing his own limits, I'm calling bullshit. He could have very well  died from it. Being juiced up on your newly acquired power often leads to characters saying idiotic things because they are just as ignorant to thier own capablities as the people witnessing the event.



> Father >>>> Aizen by much, so if the seal didn't work on aizen isn't going to work on father neither



Except it did work on Aizen.


----------



## sonic546 (Sep 25, 2011)

HST wankers are still going, eh?


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 25, 2011)

Phantom you are aware that to transmute with the philosopher's stone you dont need physical action right? It can be done with thought.

Do you seriously believe they are going to kill him millions of times before he can process a thought?


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Sep 25, 2011)

Not saying Bleach and One Piece win, but do they need to kill him that many times? I thought the regeneration was from the PS. Does Father's stone have feats of surviving attacks of this level?


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> Phantom you are aware that to transmute with the philosopher's stone you dont need physical action right? It can be done with thought.
> 
> Do you seriously believe they are going to kill him millions of times before he can process a thought?



No. But I find the thought of him transmuting elements, spiritual enitites and haki master with a thought ridicolous for the simple fact that he's never perfomed such a feat with a gesture.

He has trouble with mere superhumans yet he can take down a slew of casual, hypersonic, multi-cityblock busters? I'm callin bullshit unless somebody shows me some feats of him doin anything remotely close to flash transmuting whole verses.



Disregarding him never transmuting things he's never shown to trasmute, he also can't even percieve the strongest fighters here as they will be nothing but a blur to him.

And even disregarding the speed advantage and the no limit fallacy of him transmuting compostions and makeups he's never transmuted before, there's still the fact of him casually surviving attacks of this magnitude while transmuting people.

Father's supposed capabilites in this thread have no feats to back them up other than posters believing that he could, which is a logical fallacy and an improper argument.


----------



## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Well I guess spam wouldn't be the right word for it but he can use it over and over again seeing at it is a casual ordeal for him. And we can't quantify how miniscule or how massive the boost was, so it's best to not bring it up. It could be enough to matter or it could be tiny.


That's not excuse for just completing ommitig the detail that Ulquiorra had a power boost when he used his attack, you can't just assume it would work the same without it.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Whitebeard clearly has town level durability given that much weaker characters can survive town level attacks. What are you talking about?


Who is weaker than Whitebeard and has level durability?






Uncle Phantom said:


> It's not going to make it easier for Father as he is the focus of the assault.
> 
> The fact that the warriors who matter here are hypersonic, escaping the AOE will be childsplay for them since they are not the targets here.
> 
> Logias explain themselves.


And Father use the time they need to those characters to escape from the aoe and then return to become a mountain sized giant, or just thorw a mini sun at them.





Uncle Phantom said:


> Who said one? Surely you didn't think the onslaught would stop after just one attack? These people are bloodlusted. They could give less than a shit about letting Father have his chance to attack. They are trying to stomp his ass ot the ground. No mercy.


So they are going to thorw townbuster attaks more then one millon of times without getting tired, even if they had never shows such levels of stamina?






Uncle Phantom said:


> The fact that the character in question was arrogant and had no way of knowing his own limits, I'm calling bullshit. He could have very well  died from it. Being juiced up on your newly acquired power often leads to characters saying idiotic things because they are just as ignorant to thier own capablities as the people witnessing the event.


He is the creator of  Amestris alchimy, lived hundreds of years, and absorbed all the knowledge of god, are you seriously implying that he didn't knew what he was doing?
The fact that he knew tha throwing the sun without full control of god, proves that he had a pretty good knowledge of what he was doing.





Uncle Phantom said:


> Except it did work on Aizen.


After an exhausting battle, when he had run out of reiatsu, father has way more power than him, and unlike Aizen he is not going to get tired easly.


----------



## Samavarti (Sep 25, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> No. But I find the thought of him transmuting elements, spiritual enitites and haki master with a thought ridicolous for the simple fact that he's never perfomed such a feat with a gesture.


They are made of matter, they can be trasmuted.


Uncle Phantom said:


> He has trouble with mere superhumans yet he can take down a slew of casual, hypersonic, multi-cityblock busters? I'm callin bullshit unless somebody shows me some feats of him doin anything remotely close to flash transmuting whole verses.


Have you even read FMA?, he was toying with them until he loose god, and that was only because hoenheim had hundreds of years of prep.





Uncle Phantom said:


> Disregarding him never transmuting things he's never shown to trasmute, he also can't even percieve the strongest fighters here as they will be nothing but a blur to him.


Actaully as a long as it made of matter it can be transmuted, and weaker character showed human transmution so is moot point anyway.
Also weren't you saying that all the weaker fighter would die in the begining?



Uncle Phantom said:


> And even disregarding the speed advantage and the no limit fallacy of him transmuting compostions and makeups he's never transmuted before, there's still the fact of him casually surviving attacks of this magnitude while transmuting people.


Again is it's made of matter, unless in adamantium or somehting like that, it can be trasmuted, he dosen't even need to know it's composition.
And again he was confidet of survivng a city busting attack, so saying a Multy city block attack would do something to him is moot point.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Father's supposed capabilites in this thread have no feats to back them up other than posters believing that he could, which is a logical fallacy and an improper argument.



He has showed to regen, other alchimist have showed to transmute humans, and he has showed to be able to control nuclear fusion.


----------



## Lord Raizen (Sep 26, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Of all the bad arguments I've ever seen you make, this is one of the worse. Father says that he intended to destroy them with the mini sun.



You really need to realize that your subjective thoughts are completely irrelevent in respects to my argument.

Im flattered that you take it upon yourself to follow all of my arguments just to tell me what you think of me everytime, but really it's not necessary.

If you want to tell me how "bad" I am then prove it OBD style.



Narcissus said:


> He was unable to do so be Hohenheim used prep to strip him of his souls, extremely weakening him.




He was un able to attempt anything at that point because Hohenheim reversed his enhancement. That still doesn't mean that he was going to detonate a mini sun in the middle of his underground lair.




Narcissus said:


> You do not get to sit there and throw away valid character statements without a proper reason, which you have not provided.



My reasoning is no less proper than yours.

Just as it can be interpreted that Father might have been implying that he planned to kill them with his sun, it can just as easily be interpreted as an act to show them the power that they were up against, i.e the power to create or the power of God, was beyond there ability to handle. He was showing them that they were in over there head.

There is no reason to act as if it's a fact that he was going to kill them with the sun, considering he only created it as he spoke of his new found power of creation.

And even if he were to use it, there is no reason to think that he could survive it, without it costing him a great amount of energy in order to rejuvinate, there by allowing his opposition time and opputunity to attack.

He's not whiping out everyone in the HST with an attack that's unknown in terms of expansion speed, AoE etc..

And he could just as easily be taken out by certain haxx techniques before using it considering his reaction speed isn't proven to be anywhere near Hypersonic, and his defenses have never tanked destructive attacks on the level of most HST characters.

People need to stop acting like Father can just sit on his ass and solo every single character from Bleach or One Piece when he hasn't shown the ability to do so.

And by the way, Get over yourself. Im not dismissing a character statement, Im calling into question *an interpretation of a character statement*. 

Your interpretation is not infallible and it* sure as hell *does not qualify as evidence.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 26, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> No. But I find the thought of him transmuting elements, spiritual enitites and haki master with a thought ridicolous for the simple fact that he's never perfomed such a feat with a gesture.
> 
> He has trouble with mere superhumans yet he can take down a slew of casual, hypersonic, multi-cityblock busters? I'm callin bullshit unless somebody shows me some feats of him doin anything remotely close to flash transmuting whole verses.
> 
> ...



Then mini-sun, yes it will kill him, he will regen regardless. He has millions of lives, HST cant fail even once. Do you seriously believe they will kill him million of times and will not be able to attack just once? Because this is all he needs to win.


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## Samavarti (Sep 26, 2011)

The fact that he says it would be risky to thow the Mini Sun after being depowered, means that he intended to thow the sun when he had the power, and it also means that it wasn't risky with the power of god, in other word, not dangerous, there is no much to interpret is a pretty clear character statment.


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## Lord Raizen (Sep 26, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> The fact that he says it would be risky to thow the Mini Sun after being depowered, means that he intended to thow the sun when he had the power, and it also means that it wasn't risky with the power of god, in other word, not dangerous, there is no much to interpret is a pretty clear character statment.



And we know that he could've regenerated from it without it costing him a major amount of energy?

And we know that it wouldn't have taken him some time to regenerate, allowing for a chance at counter attack?

We know nothing about this supposed attack, and even if he could've used it to kill everyone there, he's up against hundreds of times that many people many of which have flight and several times the speed of Father's fastest child.

Just countering/defending against the onslaught of attacks from the main cast and a barrage of military fire burnt out Father's stone.

He's not going through all of OPverse and Bleachverse.


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## Samavarti (Sep 26, 2011)

Lord Raizen said:


> And we know that he could've regenerated from it without it costing him a major amount of energy?
> 
> And we know that it wouldn't have taken him some time to regenerate, allowing for a chance at counter attack?


The only reasson he didn't use the attack in the first place was becuase he diden't want to destroy the place, the fact the his bigest worry was that means that the attack didn't represented a threat to him, and only when they returned all his souls to their oweners Father considered the attack risky for him, meaning it was no a threat for him before.



Lord Raizen said:


> We know nothing about this supposed attack, and even if he could've used it to kill everyone there, he's up against hundreds of times that many people many of which have flight and several times the speed of Father's fastest child.


We know that is nuclear fusion, that gives a pretty clear idea of the scale of the attack, and most of the character is the would die from the attack from their own team mates, and Father can regen or avoid the rest of the attacks with ease.



Lord Raizen said:


> Just countering/defending against the onslaught of attacks from the main cast and a barrage of military fire burnt out Father's stone.



You are conveniently omittig the fact that Hoenheiem who had yers of prep and comunicated whith each one of his hal millon of souls, used the ecipse as a trasmutation circle, and returned all the souls father had absorbed to their original vessels, making father unable to control his powers, and weakening him.


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## Lord Valgaav (Sep 26, 2011)

Naruto really should have been included here since with all their sealing techs I'm sure one would come in handy since it takes either hax or overwhelming DC to beat him. Anyway heres some ways I think HST can defeat Father:

-All Hollows, Arrancar, and Espada feast on his souls
-Moria steals his shadow
-Urahara kido
-Dangai Ichigo's Mugetsu form
-Minato teleports behind him and Death God
-KinGin with their Rikudo weapons
-Sword of Totsuka
-Shisui's MS
-Soi Fon's shikai
-Gedo Mazo seal or soul suck
-Chibaku Tensei or Human Path
-Szayel clones him
-Mayuri's drug
-Gin's Bankai
-Barragan+Tessai+Hachi
-etc

These are just a few things that came to mind and remember that all of the above characters are fast enough to do this before Father can react.


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## hammer (Sep 26, 2011)

so people think a fucking town busting lance will stop father from regeneration 1 million times now?


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## Samavarti (Sep 26, 2011)

Valgaav said:


> Naruto really should have been included here since with all their sealing techs I'm sure one would come in handy since it takes either hax or overwhelming DC to beat him. Anyway heres some ways I think HST can defeat Father:


Naruto wouldn't really change much, since they would still get transmuted ot killd by the min sun



> -All Hollows, Arrancar, and Espada feast on his souls


They have never showed to be able to do that.


> -Moria steals his shadow


And Father creats a roof, and then turns him into a chair.


> -Urahara kido


Won't do nothing


> -Dangai Ichigo's Mugetsu form


Gets turend into a chair or killed by the Mini Sun.


> -Minato teleports behind him and Death God


Prove that he can seall all father souls?


> -KinGin with their Rikudo weapons


Consideing how massiv ehte fiht would be they are most likely get killed before they can do anything.


> -Sword of Totsuka


By the time itachi uses it, he is most likelt going to be dead.


> -Shisui's MS


Does he even has speed feats?


> -Soi Fon's shikai


No limits fallacy.


> -Gedo Mazo seal or soul suck


When it has absorbed 50 millond of souls?


> -Chibaku Tensei or Human Path


If he trys to touch father he is dead, Chibaku Tensei is non factor.


> -Szayel clones him


No limits fallacy.


> -Mayuri's drug


Haven't showed to work in an organism like father.


> -Gin's Bankai


Won't do nothing.


> -Barragan+Tessai+Hachi


Won't do nothing.


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 26, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Naruto wouldn't really change much, since they would still get transmuted ot killd by the min sun



No .



> Have never shown to be able to do that



Except that is how hollows survive. Would be pretty stupid if they couldn't consume souls if that is thier main objective in Bleach.



> And Father creats a roof, and then turns him into a chair.



How is he going to create a roof when Moria is faster than him? I am starting to worry if you understand the speed advantage here.



> Won't do nothing



Scans of Father transmuting magic or reaitsu constructs for that matter.



> Gets turend into a chair or killed by the Mini Sun.



Except he is several times Father's speed and would escape the AOE anyway if Father get's off, which he won't.



> > No limits fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## crimsonshade (Sep 26, 2011)

Lord Raizen said:


> And even if he were to use it, there is no reason to think that he could survive it, without it costing him a great amount of energy in order to rejuvinate, there by allowing his opposition time and opputunity to attack.





Lord Raizen said:


> And we know that he could've regenerated from it without it costing him a major amount of energy?
> 
> And we know that it wouldn't have taken him some time to regenerate, allowing for a chance at counter attack?



wait....what?   i'm surprised no one bothered to comment on this but to whom are you referring when you say father would be susceptible to counter attack if he detonates the sun?  because common sense tells me that the whole area/city would be gone, so superhuman level characters surely are not surviving the explosion and are definitely not counter attacking.  usually you have good points but that made no sense.

back to lurking.


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## hammer (Sep 26, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Scans of Father transmuting elements.



someone failed phsyics.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 26, 2011)

Orochibuto said:


> Then mini-sun, yes it will kill him, he will regen regardless. He has millions of lives, HST cant fail even once. Do you seriously believe they will kill him million of times and will not be able to attack just once? Because this is all he needs to win.



Lack of quanitifiable damage makes me suggest the Sun is hardly a city buster. And if is, by the time his slow ass throws it to the ground, any smart hypersonic fighter in this match can escape the AOE.

Not that he is getting it off since thier are multiple ways the HST could immoblize him permanently.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 26, 2011)

hammer said:


> someone failed phsyics.



Cool. Now show me a scan of Father transmuting conscious elemental entites.


----------



## hammer (Sep 26, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Cool. Now show me a scan of Father transmuting conscious elemental entites.



pro tip fire water etc is not an element its a compound


alchemy is taking elements and recomposing them


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 26, 2011)

hammer said:


> pro tip fire water etc is not an element its a compound
> 
> 
> alchemy is taking elements and recomposing them



Let's get technical then.

Light is neither.

Kizaru will now have a field day.


----------



## Samavarti (Sep 26, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> No .
> Except that is how hollows survive. Would be pretty stupid if they couldn't consume souls if that is thier main objective in Bleach.


And yet Orihime, Chad and Ishida has their souls intact.


Uncle Phantom said:


> How is he going to create a roof when Moria is faster than him? I am starting to worry if you understand the speed advantage here.


First by you own arguemt Father is going to be attackes since the beging with town busters, and now they are suddnly obtain son super cordination abilities and stop just to allow moira to steal his shadow, not going to happen.
And even if we assume he can steal hsi shadow, he creates a roof after that and stops the sun.





Uncle Phantom said:


> Scans of Father transmuting magic or reaitsu constructs for that matter.


Why he would need to?, anyway they get killed from the mini sun.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Except he is several times Father's speed and would escape the AOE anyway if Father get's off, which he won't.


When he has showed to be able to to move several kilometers in matter of seconds.



Uncle Phantom said:


> The pot calling the kettle black.


So you don't know what to argue.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Because Father can't do a damn thing to stop it? Explain yourself. Sick of this Argument of Belief bullshit. Prove what you are saying.


Assuming the he is able to reach father, the by you own word is going to be attacked by town busters attacks that would kill all non HST top tiers.
At the moment he gets close to father he gets turned into a chair, and he Human Path has not showed to be able to extract fifty millon of souls.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Pot calling the kettle black.


So you don't have argumets.



Uncle Phantom said:


> Transmuting Elements


He can do nuclear fusion, and even roy could control elemtets.


Uncle Phantom said:


> Transmuting Spirits


The same spirits that can be hited by telephone poles?


> Resistant or immunity to kido


Because Kidos can do antyhing to fahter and his fifty millon of lives, right?


Uncle Phantom said:


> Creating Suns as a mush on the ground.
> Spamming his "sun".


Good thing , he has regen, and he dosen't even has a defined body, so being a mush is not really a big problem


Uncle Phantom said:


> Reacting at all to hypersonic fighters


He dosen't needs to, they can do anything to him.


Uncle Phantom said:


> Cool. Now show me a scan of Father transmuting conscious elemental entites.



Because having a conscience completly changes their composition, right?


----------



## mailer-daemon (Sep 26, 2011)

Itachi uses Kotoamatsukami. 

gg


----------



## Lord Valgaav (Sep 26, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Naruto wouldn't really change much, since they would still get transmuted ot killd by the min sun
> 
> 
> *They have never showed to be able to do that.*
> ...



1.) Hollows eat souls to survive so of course they can do it. Since its the whole verse  can see millions of hollows swarming him stealing soul after soul.

2.) Actually if Moria takes his shadow thats it for him though of course Moria has a chance at getting caught unless he has someone like Blueno to help him.

3.) They really only need the urn and Raikage's assistant, Blueno, or Minato can see that they get to Father to use it.

4.) You don't know that :Zaru

5.) No but Danzou or Itachi's crow can do it

6.) How exactly? We know that Soi Fon''s shikai equals death in 2 strikes unless you have a massively greater amount of reitsu than her.

7.) How? He doesn't have to be anywhere near Father to use it and theres nothing Father can do to stop it.

Oh and about Father's mini suns, Minato could warp it away.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 26, 2011)

Uncle Phantom said:


> Lack of quanitifiable damage makes me suggest the Sun is hardly a city buster. And if is, by the time his slow ass throws it to the ground, any smart hypersonic fighter in this match can escape the AOE.
> 
> Not that he is getting it off since thier are multiple ways the HST could immoblize him permanently.



They wont be able to escape a city wide-area and then come back without father realizing this is too much wanking.

If father throws the sun everyone city-wide is dead, if they flee they have to outrun the explosion city-wide area and then come back to father. In this momment where everyone has left father has got the upper hand, he has either another sun ready or has started to transmute shit. Its over.

The only possibility of HST winning is attacking him so perfectly that he isnt allowed to attack even once in his millions of chances. Is it possible?

Yes theoricatelly it is possible, just like it is possible for you to win the lottery beating the 1 in a billion chance and never have to work your ass again.

Is it realistic? No.

While HST has the ability to win, the odds arent on their favour. If I have to bet between the HST attacking perfectly without commiting any mistake during millions and millions of attacks or Father simply making 1 attack. I will choose the latter.

The fact that his automatic defense circle which is part of his power had to be taken out of the fight for Father to face this odds should make it clear who is trully stronger an all-out father would wipe the floor with HST.


----------



## Samavarti (Sep 26, 2011)

Valgaav said:


> 1.) Hollows eat souls to survive so of course they can do it. Since its the whole verse  can see millions of hollows swarming him stealing soul after soul.


If they could eat souls so easly, they would have eat Ichigo friends souls long ago.



Valgaav said:


> 2.) Actually if Moria takes his shadow thats it for him though of course Moria has a chance at getting caught unless he has someone like Blueno to help him.


Because they have a perfect cordination and knowledge of all the othet HST characters abilities, right?
And even without shadow you don't die instantly, father have more than enough time ro create a roof, or since he can control Weather just cover the sun.



Valgaav said:


> 3.) They really only need the urn and Raikage's assistant, Blueno, or Minato can see that they get to Father to use it.


In such massive fight is unlikely that Father would bother to respond, and therfore the urn would be usless.
Also for get the urn, they would need prep, or some perfect cordination i order that every character is aware of all their teanmate abilities and needs, which is not the case. 



Valgaav said:


> 4.) You don't know that :Zaru


It needs a massive amount of chakra, so is unlikely that Itachi would use it at the begining of the fight, even is he is bloodlusted.



Valgaav said:


> 5.) No but Danzou or Itachi's crow can do it


Which speed feat has Itachi Crow?
And assuming the the MS works on somone who has 50 millons of souls and god, Danzou would need to get close to him to use it, which is unlikly, since Father is going to be spamed with big AOE attacks.



Valgaav said:


> 6.) How exactly? We know that Soi Fon''s shikai equals death in 2 strikes unless you have a massively greater amount of reitsu than her.


So under you logic she should be able to kill Dr. Manhattan, even if he is much stronger than anything in bleach, because he has no reiatsu, right?



Valgaav said:


> 7.) How? He doesn't have to be anywhere near Father to use it and theres nothing Father can do to stop it.



You mean Chibaku Tensei?, if that's the case father can just trasmure the rocks, and get out of the Chibaku Tensei.


Valgaav said:


> Oh and about Father's mini suns, Minato could warp it away.


When has minato warped a nuke?.


----------



## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2011)

> He has trouble with mere superhumans yet he can take down a slew of casual, hypersonic, multi-cityblock busters? I'm callin bullshit unless somebody shows me some feats of him doin anything remotely close to flash transmuting whole verses.



No he wasn't. He was toying around with them and fighting them while sitting down. Hohenheim was slowly losing his ground and souls and they would have all been vaporized by the small sun were it not for Hohenheim's hundred year preparation plan stealing out half of Father's souls and making him have trouble controlling God.

Even _with_ God fighting from within, he was still able to take them all out with a single blast. Izumi was injured to the point where she couldn't fight, Edward was pinned down, Hohenheim was completely battered at this point, Mei was injured and Alphonse had half his body blown off. 

Before this he was taking attacks from missiles, rockets, guns, artillery and Roy Mustang's Flame Alchemy, and at times, redirecting the attacks back at them.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 26, 2011)

Narcissus said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> He intended it to be used as a weapon, but was only stopped.



That is like saying Cell's "solar system" buster is acceptable. Father never actually use the attack so we can't count it as a feat.


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## Atlantic Storm (Sep 26, 2011)

No it's nothing like that at all. Cell actually used his Kamehameha, but just claimed it could have destroyed the Solar System if it hit the Earth.


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## 10K (Sep 26, 2011)

One his minature sun if it was a minature sun was weak as hell in comparison to a real sun. Mind you if it was a real sun everyone in that room would have died instantly for being in that vicinity. That scene doesn't prove or show anything. Beside that point Father would be blitzed  to hell and back before he formed the thought of an attack.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 26, 2011)

10K said:


> *One his minature sun if it was a minature sun was weak as hell in comparison to a real sun.*




Yes, this is the reason to why it would destroy an entire city and not a solar system.



10K said:


> *
> Mind you if it was a real sun everyone in that room would have died instantly for being in that vicinity.*


*

Still enough to fuck HST pretty bad via city nuke.



10K said:




That scene doesn't prove or show anything.

Click to expand...



It proves Father is able to use nuclear fusion, which can fuck a city at least pretty easily.



10K said:




Beside that point Father would be blitzed  to hell and back before he formed the thought of an attack.

Click to expand...



Yeah, he would. But he has millions and millions of lives, do you seriously believe they would be able to blitz him millions of times without him being able to process a thought which is all he needs?*


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## Orochibuto (Sep 26, 2011)

kyrax12 said:


> That is like saying Cell's "solar system" buster is acceptable. Father never actually use the attack so we can't count it as a feat.



It was nuclear fusion on panel, we know what nuclear fusion that size can do to a city. Unlike Kamehameha all of them are fucking equal, we have no way to know the power that is packed in a certain Kamehameha. The fact that he had to be stopped and didnt used it would tell you that if he used it the manga was over, he won.

Cell never even formed the solar system busting power. Father did formed the mini sun.


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## sonic546 (Sep 26, 2011)

Jesus fucking Christ...

7 pages.


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