# State Your Controversial Naruto Opinions



## adeshina365 (Dec 11, 2016)

Try not to waste too much time criticising the views of others...

I'll start:

- SM Naruto is stronger than Hebi Sasuke, but the gap isn't that large
- Amaterasu and Enton can eat through Jinton
- We haven't even seen 1/2 of what Sasuke can do with his EMS. If we saw his full EMS and Rinnegan powers, Naruto simply wouldn't be in the same tier as him.

Reactions: Like 3 | Disagree 5


----------



## Karyu Endan (Dec 11, 2016)

-The latter half of Part 2 is more enjoyable than the first half.
-Kaguya wasn't an ass pull.
-I like Karin.

That's about as controversial as I get. 

Oh wait. I have another one.

-Mei Terumi is the worst female character in the series.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## The_Conqueror (Dec 11, 2016)

Why the authour potrayed fks  sasuke and naruto equal when one was developing every time while other was a blind fodder

We havenot seen what 1/10 of what  naruto could do because he was always holding back for the sake of his friend. Sb needed 9 bijjus to be on a equal footing against drained naruto with 50℅ kurama.

Another was itachi. Why did not the guy tell the village about madara existed he was the so called intelligent guy was not he? Hardly shown any intelligence that guy. His actions toward sasuke. His whole existence

How did madara know how to undo reanimation jutsu?

Also the secrets behind the legend of "prime hiruzen "

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

My opinions might rustle jimmies


-VOTE Naruto & VOTE Sasuke > 3 Eye JJ Madara

-Last Naruto & Last Sasuke >> 3 Eye JJ Madara

-Hokage Naruto & Wanderer Sasuke >>> 3 Eye JJ Madara


^ This is Naruto and Sasuke individually btw.


-Sarada > Boruto

-Sakura > Tsunade

-Mokuton is lame

-Gap between Hagaromo and N/S isn't that huge

-Gaiden is bad

-Early Part 2 is boring

-Part 2 art > Part 1 art

-Taka Sasuke should have stayed around longer

-Manga should have had a post war arc

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 12, 2016)

> Naruto = Sasuke

> I find Sasuke's character to be well written in contrast to the Main Character.

> Adult Sakura never managed to surpass either Hebi Sasuke nor SM Naruto.

> It's pathetic that Naruto doesn't have any more elemental nature jutsu bar Rasen-Shuriken

> The Uchiha's in general just suck now. I don't find them appealing at all, just Sasuke. Too much wank/overexposed.

> Everything about Adult Sasuke's mission is just ... too stupid for words.

> The Otsutsuki's should of never happened.

> Child of Prohpecy ruined Naruto's character.

> Itachi is a shit-tier character. Way too much hype/fan's when his characer is just... bad.

> I find Jiraiya to be one of Kishimoto's rare jewels.

> Incredibly pissed that Kakashi allowed Orochimaru to continue his experiments, and that Naruto as well won't put him away.

> I don't think there is one well written female character from start to finish bar Tsunade. I hate all of them, honestly. I tolerate a few but most of them stink.

> I wish the Last was written better.

> I will always love Naruto, but the fact that Kishimoto made him call Obito a cool guy despite all of what he did, will always hurt me.

> Sasuke's revolution plan would of never worked.

> Madara was gay for Hashirama.

> Hagoromo was a retard.


> Also why the Hell can they replace arms, eyesballs, and shit, but Kishimoto could not give Gai some legs?



Next Gen opinions

> Honestly once the content moves past he Movie arc, I feel as if Boruto is not only going to be the most well written of his cast, but he'll be something interesting as a Shounen Protagonist too.

> Naruto is still alive 

> Kawaki is gonna rustle some jimmies doe.


Lastly

> I don't understand how people ship/support SasuSaku for either Sasuke or Sakura's side.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 3


----------



## Deana (Dec 12, 2016)

You'll fight a young man with powerful eyes was a dumb prophesy because that is what Naruto did the majority of the story. The first one . . . NEJI!!!

Because part II was so rough on the Naruto character, as I reread and watch shippuden, I find myself paying more adoring attention to everyone who is not him.

Hinata, Hashirama, and Gaara are my forever squad 

Boruto is shaping to be the new Sakura of the fandom. For some reason they have no right to be as emotional as the other characters in the story because they have no over-the-top sob story. I adore both and will dare to hope that he kicks the fandom in the nuts and gets the Uchiha just like Sakura.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## ChosenOne1DO (Dec 12, 2016)

naruto and sasuke's rivarly was a waste of time!

i felt that the girls had more potential than the guys.

i always wanted to know what happened to kakashi's mother....

i find it funny that kishi always has someone stalking an uzumaki as a love interest
minato following kushina
hinaa following naruto
sarada following boruto

it continues!

i think sasuke and boruto have the most interesting master and student relationship in he manga

i dont understand why naruto/sasuke are bad dads

naruto pairings SUCKs


sasuke is the strongest character currently

Reactions: Dislike 1


----------



## dinosaur ninja (Dec 12, 2016)

>although kishi stated that naruto and sasuke are equally strongest, i think sasuke is more badass with his powers and his taijutsu is better than naruto's, i enjoy more watching his fights.

>i like naruto's tnj this is what i love about him, even though i am more of sasuke fan, naruto is like an adopted child to me, i love him like i love sasuke.

>sakura is a flawed character but for me she has the most development among female characters. 

> i like kiba's sense of humor

> i like itachi, i always see him as a hero of the hidden leaf.

>only with sarada i am interested among the new gen kids.

>i personally dislike boruto manga, i hate the fact boruto will surpass naruto/sasuke. For me naruto and sasuke are the greatest shinobis of all time, so anyone surpassing them sounds like a bs to me.

>naruhina is cute, typical story you can see in a shoujo manga, not that it didn't matter but imo sasusaku is the main ship in naruto considering it's core theme.

>naruto had an honest and genuine feelings towards sakura in part 1 and mid part 2, at the time of the failfession naruto seemed like he already moved on. So i rolled eyes whenever others say naruto's feelings towards sakura was just considered a joke and just out of his rivalry with sasuke.

>i don't like the last because it's totally not in sync with the manga and they need to retcon certain events just to fit in but rather it felt force.
> i love iruka-naruto father/son relationship, its the best bond in naruto.


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

Deana said:


> I adore both and will dare to hope that he kicks the fandom in the nuts *and gets the Uchiha* just like Sakura.


This reminds me 


Zef said:


> My opinions might rustle jimmies
> 
> 
> -VOTE Naruto & VOTE Sasuke > 3 Eye JJ Madara
> ...



-BoruSara is an abomination that should never come to fruition.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Deana (Dec 12, 2016)

^^Kishi and Sarada's teeth and ambitions are bared be prepared!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## fuff (Dec 12, 2016)

prob gonna be long but...

-sasusaku is the MAIN romance in the naruto series

-sasuke being gone so long on him mission made him seem like a bad dad and crushed headcanons T_T which makes no sense since family was EVERYTHING to him and he hated when itachi didnt spend time with him, to be honest i liked gaiden (since it was interesting) and i hated it as well bc of the unanswered questions

-sasuke and sakura did taught sarada to walk that was a fuzzy memory NOT a dream, and sasuke was there for her early life

-adult naruto is better than pt1+pt2 naruto

-kishi has so many unanswered questions which need explaining

-i still dont understand how madara died as an old man but was revived young

-chouchou is fucken hilarious i love her

-fav and interesting new gen is sarada ofc

-sasuke HAS kissed sakura before even tho he teased her and didnt in gaiden

-i hope borusara does not happen

-IKEMOTO HAS UGLY ASS ART AND CANT DRAW SHIT (kishimoto please come back)

- i hate how kishi said he drew out the birth scene but did not use it (sasusaku)

-madara is badass

-hashirama is funny-love his happy-depressed moments

-kaguya made no sense

- i dont like how sasuke is spending more time with boruto than sarada ( i know its because gaiden was written after the movie)

-hate how SP doesnt milk my ship

-kid obito is a lot better  than broken mask obito (when its been revealed) tho i loved how he owned naruto when neiji died

-i dont like how naruto ignored hinata's confession after pain was dealt with and he didnt even bother checking up on her

-boruto's voice is annoying when he screams/yells

-sarada's voice isnt as cute as it should be imo

-i dont get why ppl are obsessed with himawari when shes pretty damn minor, even chou-chou is more important than her

-nobody listened to itachi's speech (sasuke and naruto)

-orochimaru should have been locked up

-sasuke is more interesting than naruto

-sai is savage, i dont like how he sucked at the war arc when he was kinda hyped to be more interesting in early pt2

- if team minato was alive, rin would have ended up with kakashi and obito would have remained in the friendzone

-minato and kushina prob would have another kid (if they werent killed off)

-fugaku is the ugliest uchiha, madara's dad is more badass

-team taka was crap (minus sasuke)

-why did sasuke revived orochimaru when he told itachi he killed him, and knew that itachi made sure to take away oro's presence from sasuke

-everyone knew that the final naruto fight/ending was gonna be naruto vs sauske along time ago

-itachi and sasuke story is the best from naruto and their bond is too (good moments ofc)

-sasuke loves sakura and sarada is their product of love (some ppl still dont understand this)

-a lot ppl need to understand sasuke's character

-sasuke has always had some sort of feelings for sakura (he says he cant lose any more important people during the garra event)

-shisui...i still dont get why he committed suicide, it did nothing to benefit the uchiha and made itachi get blamed and stress him out

-naruto is too gay for sasuke

-sasuke looks better with full bangs than the parted bangs

-tumblr is toxic to the naruto fandom (minus the good people who put news, and positive stuff)

-naruhina/the last seemed forced

-narusaku makes no sense...sakura has ALWAYS loved sasuke and will always, people who ship it base it on the fillers and dont understand sakura and sasuke's character/personality and dont understand that to sasuke, sakura was someone important

...thats it for now...if i think of anything else ill add it

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Rai (Dec 12, 2016)

The worst of all:

Minato is equal or stronger than Itachi

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The_Conqueror (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> The truth:
> 
> Minato is  stronger than Itachi


Corrected

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 3 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

1- Statement/portrayal that Naruto and Sasuke should be equal when feats contradict this heavily. Logically, and based on feats, Naruto should have smashed Sasuke like a bug. Heck, seeing Naruto's chakra arms were almost equal to Kaguya's, that should have been more
than enough to destroy Sasuke's PS by its own.

2- A lot of the characters that were stated/portrayed to be smart are in fact very retarded it's unreal. That's include but not limited to itachi, Asspulldara, Hagoromo, Hiruzen and much more...

3- Hashirama got killed by fodders in the first WW1, but his dick riders think he can take on all the Kages in history. Joke is funny because of how bad it is.

4- Firepower is almost always irrelevant against hax.

5- The entire plot of the uchiha clan and everything related to them is extremely retarded and clearly not planned properly.
6- Same thing goes for Kaguya and he clan. As well as everything related to the Juubi. a huge mess full with contradictions.

7- The Senju retcons (Hashirama & Tobirama) were extremely awful and opened holes in the manga.

8- Jiraiya is indeed stronger than itachi, and he can take him on alongside Kisame at the same time.

9- SS is the worst pairing in fiction history. Salad was actually correct when she rustled Sakura's Jimms

10- Even tho I love Naruto, he can be extremely retarded sometimes. Especially when it comes to the uchiha (Sasuke, obito, and itachi)

11- There is no uchiha character was well-written at all. But even the horrible ones (Sasuke & itachi) look like they should get an Oscar compared to how horrendous/obnoxious Obito and Asspulldara were.


And many more, but I am busy now.

Reactions: Like 6 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Rai (Dec 12, 2016)

professor83 said:


> Corrected




Fanfic:

Minato/Jiraiya is equal or stronger than Itachi 

Truth:

Itachi >>> Jiraiya/Minato

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## Rohan (Dec 12, 2016)

Guren is filler but she solos all canon female characters in terms of character, power, appearance and impact.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 12, 2016)

Controversy? You asked for it..

Karin is a better written character than Sakura 

Tonton is a better written character than Sakura
Itachi is a badly written character, though slightly above Sakura 

The manga would've been better if it hadn't been polluted by Uchiha thrash
Edo tensei is the worst thing that happened to the manga
The last arc could've been great if Obito had just fucking died when he was a kid (and let fake Madara actually be Madara).
Kabuto is the most disgusting character in the manga

SS is the worst canon pairing ever seen in any manga. Though not as bad as the fanon bullcrap of SasuHina
I love NH, but it would've been better if Naruto wasn't portrayed as a retard, and if Hinata wasn't eternally hesitant over shit she already made her mind up 

'The Last' is an insult to the NaruHina ship

Stupid as Naruto may be, Sasuke is still a greater moron



Rohan said:


> Guren is filler but she solos all canon female characters in terms of character, power, appearance and impact.


Guren should've been the heroine of the story

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Disagree 1


----------



## The_Conqueror (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Fanfic:
> 
> Minato/Jiraiya is equal or stronger than Itachi
> 
> ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Rohan (Dec 12, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Controversy? You asked for it..
> 
> Karin is a better written character than Sakura
> 
> ...



Yeah, her character had potential. But Kishi stuck with Suckura.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 12, 2016)

Rohan said:


> Yeah, her character had potential. But Kishi stuck with Suckura.


Guren wouldn't have tolerated the bullshit from Naruto and Sasuke, she would've destroyed them both before pt1 had even ended


----------



## Rohan (Dec 12, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Guren wouldn't have tolerated the bullshit from Naruto and Sasuke, she would've destroyed them both before pt1 had even ended



Nerfs are important.


----------



## theRonin (Dec 12, 2016)

Sasuke's story should've ended with Itachi's death.
Naruto should've stopped being a retard at critical times. Although it was for comic relief, it got annoying.
Itachi should've remained a bad guy.
Sakura is a waste for a Heroin.
Minato's hype from Part 1 should've remained.
Obito should've died a bad guy.
Either Naruto or Sasuke should've been killed at the end.
And finally NO Kaguya.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

Ichibat said:


> Sasuke's story should've ended with Itachi's death.
> Naruto should've stopped being a retard at critical times. Although it was for comic relief, it got annoying.
> Itachi should've remained a bad guy.
> Sakura is a waste for a Heroin.
> ...



Do you mean either Naruto or SAKURA should have killed Sasuke
or either Naruto or sasuke should have killed SAKURA

Cuz Sasuke being in both kinda does not make much sense, unless you mean he should have killed himself....


----------



## theRonin (Dec 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Do you mean either Naruto or SAKURA should have killed Sasuke
> or either Naruto or sasuke should have killed SAKURA
> 
> Cuz Sasuke being in both kinda does not make much sense, unless you mean he should have killed himself....


I didn't mean either. It was a mistake. Replace Sasuke with at.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> /end of the discussion


Too bad it does not protect from sound (Frog Song & Frog Call) nor does it protect from the underground attacks.


----------



## Rai (Dec 12, 2016)

Kabuto was talking about  Susano'o not Yata Mirror 

Itachi solos

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Kabuto was talking about Susano'o not Yata Mirror plus it says"All things"


Except sound and light. 

Go and reread their fight with Kabuto.


----------



## Rai (Dec 12, 2016)

That was Susano'o not Yata Mirror 

Itachi solos 

/end of the discussion

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> That was Susano'o not Yata Mirror


Yata Mirror reflects sound? 
Strange, itachi was hearing Sasuke's voice just fine.

How did he do that if the mirror reflected Sasuke's sound?


----------



## Rai (Dec 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Yata Mirror reflects sound?
> Strange, itachi was hearing Sasuke's voice just fine.
> 
> How did he do that if the mirror reflected Sasuke's sound?



Yes, it can deflect all things as stated by BZ.

Sasuke's voice isn't jutsu 

/Not gonna bother with Hussain 

Edit: More like Itachi didn't bother to deflect since it won't do shit to him.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

ℜai said:


> Yes, it can deflect all things as stated by BZ.
> 
> Sasuke's voice isn't jutsu
> 
> /Not gonna bother with Hussain



Why does it matter if it's a jutsu or not? 
If it reflects sounds, then he would have never heard anyone while inside the Susanoo....

/Case closed


----------



## The_Conqueror (Dec 12, 2016)

Fight with kabutock



Case closed


----------



## Seelentau (Dec 12, 2016)

The Naruto manga is mediocre at best, got only worse after the beginning of part II, shipping discussions are the most retarded thing there is, only equaled by VS discussions and 95% of the fandom consists of clueless and uneducated idiots who take the manga and its characters more serious than their own life.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

Who the fuck is Guren, and why have I never heard of her?

Is it that chick with the purple hair that I see in hentai fanart?

Probably some SP filler shit.





Seelentau said:


> The Naruto manga is mediocre at best, got only worse after the beginning of part II, shipping discussions are the most retarded thing there is, only equaled by VS discussions and 95% of the fandom consists of clueless and uneducated idiots who take the manga and its characters more serious than their own life.


Savage

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 12, 2016)

Zef said:


> Probably some SP filler shit.


iirc she was designed by Kishi himself. Regardless, she's one of the few filler characters that was actually worth shit 



Hussain said:


> /Case closed


Neh. Uchiha wankers are just as obsessed with power as the Uchiha themselves, so it won't ever be closed

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


----------



## theRonin (Dec 12, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Neh. Uchiha wankers are just as obsessed with power as the Uchiha themselves, so it won't ever be closed


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> iirc she was designed by Kishi himself. Regardless, she's one of the few filler characters that was actually worth shit


She's worth something alright. 

On Nardopixxx


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 12, 2016)

Zef said:


> She's worth something alright.
> 
> On Nardopixxx



Well, there are some good non-hentai fanarts as well. 

*Spoiler*: __ 





Ya didn't click because you were expecting porn, were ya?


----------



## Toph (Dec 12, 2016)

Seelentau said:


> The Naruto manga is mediocre at best, got only worse after the beginning of part II, shipping discussions are the most retarded thing there is, only equaled by VS discussions and 95% of the fandom consists of clueless and uneducated idiots who take the manga and its characters more serious than their own life.



pretty much this tbqh.



-Ziltoid- said:


> Ya didn't click because you were expecting porn, were ya?



[Sweats Nervously]

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Punished Kiba (Dec 12, 2016)

Oh Boy, Here I go 

> Kiba should've been the main character
> The Kage summit arc utterly ruined the Team 7 dynamic and destroyed Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura's characterisations
> Sakura, Ino, Hinata and Tenten, the females on the main 4 teams....should've be replaced by Boys. Females are a burden in the ninja world for the most part (especially in the story).

> Shippuden ruined Naruto  [Not really a controversial statement]
> All of the Uchiha were boring as fuck
> The New Gen are completely hideous
> Naruto part 1 fights are way better than Shippuden [Not really controversial either]
> Naruto Uzumaki is the worst shonen protagonist
> Kakashi and Kiba should've been relatives at the very least
> there are no good female characters in this series, other than maybe part 1 Temari
> SP animators/SJ editors have a personal bias towards certain characters....and pushed them as hard as they could to make them popular.
> Naruto Fandom is still the worst Fandom in anime/manga/TV/Movie/Gaming/any entertainment genre EVER.
> The previous two films were Terrible (especially the one with the ugly new kids)
> Sai and Yamato shouldn't exist
> Shikamaru got too much screentime (for mostly talking without doing much tbh)
> Maybe Sasuke should have died.

I've got more but I've got work to do.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 12, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> Oh Boy, Here I go
> 
> > Kiba should've been the main character
> > The Kage summit arc utterly ruined the Team 7 dynamic and destroyed Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura's characterisations
> ...



What about KibaHina?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Canute87 (Dec 12, 2016)

Itachi was lying about not being able to beat Jiraiya.

Mangekyou  Sharingan destroyed this manga.

Kabuto being equal to Kakshi was a load of elephant shit.


----------



## pat pat (Dec 12, 2016)

Ok let's go:
-The Naruto manga got absolutely mediocre near the end ( after kage summit). It went from a pretty well written manga about ninjas to a failed DBZ fanfic with shitty stories.
-The Uzumaki story could have been 100X more interesting than the uchiha's if Kishi gave it some focus.
-Kishimoto almost ruined Naruto's character near the end of the manga by making him call a mass-murderer "the coolest guy"
-Kishimoto had absolutely no clue about what  to do with sasuke after Itachi's death,  that's were his story should have ended. This is where his final fight with naruto should have take place followed by sasuke becoming a good guy.
-Even tho i am a sasuke fan,Kage summit/war Arc sasuke is a bad written character.
-Adult sasuke is more interesting than adult Naruto.
-Naruto is stronger than sasuke 
-Sakura is one the worst heroine of mangas history.
-Hinata is a better character than sakura ,  and she is also smarter ( sakura is retarded no matter what kishi ,this or that databook says about her intelligence)
-Itachi's character is a Piece of Garbage
-Even tho they started good, Uchiha are totally Boring and Uninteresting nowadays,  they ruined this manga with their shitty Drama.
-Sasusaku is the worst pairing this world could know.
-The manga should have be focused a lot more on Naruto.
-Even tho it's weaker, Byakugan is a lot more interesting than plotgan ( sharingan, rinnegan , sharinenananigan or idk what ).
-Even tho he has flaws, Sasuke is a good character ,maybe he was even too good and complex for Kishi to handle him correctly .
-Boruto is thus far one of the few very Well written character of this series.
-Sarada is also well written, but she did forgive sasuke too easily ,  that's a - for her. She could be on Bolt's level if she keeps the attitude she had toward Sasuke during the movie /manga
-Boruto and Sarada could potentially be the best pairing of this whole series.
-And finally ,  Team Konohamaru is more a "team" than team7.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## pat pat (Dec 12, 2016)

Oh and this : 


Seelentau said:


> The Naruto manga is mediocre at best, got only worse after the beginning of part II, shipping discussions are the most retarded thing there is, only equaled by VS discussions and 95% of the fandom consists of clueless and uneducated idiots who take the manga and its characters more serious than their own life.


----------



## reiatsuflow (Dec 12, 2016)

I thought naruto and sasuke's relationship was moving and well done. 

I'm cheating a little by overwriting the manga's final showdown with the anime's final showdown, but it's still within the brand. 

Kishi got a lot of mileage out of that relationship by gradually making sasuke that much more unforgivable, challenging naruto to be that much more forgiving. Pretty timeless stuff, even when there was some shonen bullshit, or some weird scenes, bad writing, whatever. As a whole. Props to kishi for that, and imo naruto and sasuke will go down as a classic in the genre.


----------



## Corvida (Dec 12, 2016)

Zef said:


> This reminds me
> 
> 
> -BoruSara is an abomination that should never come to fruition.



Amen.

The dregs of  dogbreeding.





-Yuka Miyata said:


> Karin is a better written character than Sakura



Not even in the databooks






Karin glasses are a better written character than Karin. 

Narusasu was part one finger retcon bloating cancer-Hiroaki Samura was right


Itachi is the glorifying of the vilest mentality

Hiruzen stinks as a Hokage

Fuck Shikamaru


----------



## Lucaniel (Dec 12, 2016)

sakura has been prostituting herself to naruto to pay the rent the whole time sauce has been away and now salad lets him smash too


Seelentau said:


> The Naruto manga is mediocre at best, got only worse after the beginning of part II, shipping discussions are the most retarded thing there is, only equaled by VS discussions and 95% of the fandom consists of clueless and uneducated idiots who take the manga and its characters more serious than their own life.


no dude this is for _controversial_ opinions

Reactions: Creative 1 | Dislike 3


----------



## Xel (Dec 12, 2016)

Oh, I got one: adult Naruto looks good with shorter hair (at least when Kishi draws him)

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

Corvida said:


> Karin glasses are a better written character than Karin.


Yup. The development Karin's glasses got in Gaiden is more then what she received in the entire story. Sad!  




Lucaniel said:


> sakura has been prostituting herself to naruto to pay the rent the whole time sauce has been away and now salad lets him smash too

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Corvida (Dec 12, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> sakura has been prostituting herself to naruto to pay the rent the whole time sauce has been away and now salad lets him smash too



EEER.No, you read the narsak revenge hentai wrong.  chap 700 Salad didnt _let him_

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Too bad it does not protect from sound (Frog Song & Frog Call) nor does it protect from the underground attacks.



It seems only V3 and V4 Susanoo got Yata mirror. 

And Itachi never used that version when he was damaged or immobilized in some way.


----------



## SupremeKage (Dec 12, 2016)

Madara would've killed Nardo and Sauce again..

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Corvida (Dec 12, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> for more on the subject, licensed naruto spinoff konoha donburi has all the info you need



Licensed spin off?

I dont think Kishimoto, Sueisha or Pierrot   officially approved and lisenced Naruto the Messiah as a child rapist.

If that´s how you see him.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 12, 2016)

Lucaniel said:


> for more on the subject, licensed naruto spinoff konoha donburi has all the info you need


>Wataru's doujin

I'll never not be triggered and I didn't even read it. Then again if he's fucking his own son in doujins, nothing's off limits.

Also NTR and cowtits a shit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## King Shark (Dec 12, 2016)

1.Naruto & sasuke could've beaten madara.
2. Kaguya had the potential to be a decent character
3. Naruto is stronger than Sasuke. 

This is what's at the top of my head atm, i may or may not add more later.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 12, 2016)

Corvida said:


> Karin glasses are a better written character than Karin.



Hence Karin's glasses are a better character than Sakura 



The Orange Hokage said:


> 3. Naruto is stronger than Sasuke.


Manga facts aren't controversial, are they?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## t0xeus (Dec 12, 2016)

*1) *Sasuke > Naruto at pretty much any point in the manga, but was for the sake of plot always nerfed to make Naruto keep up with him or even make him look stronger.

*2) *Madara > Hashirama (Hashirama would have lost at VotE hadn't Madara focused the future instead of the present)

*3) *Wave Arc bored me and I consider it the worst arc of the whole manga

*4) *I actually think Child Prophecy plot-twist and Indra&Ashura incarnating stuff was great

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 12, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Manga facts aren't controversial, are they?


>Itachi is perfection in every way.
>Sasuke got away with everything.
>Obito was the coolest guy.
>Pairings.
>Muh prophecy and destiny.

Why of course not. None of these manga facts are controversial in anyway whatsoever.


----------



## Corvida (Dec 12, 2016)

-Yuka Miyata said:


> Hence Karin's glasses are a better character than Sakura



Afraid nope.



The whole point of their relevance  was ultimately  declaring them  _fake_-
cucullus non facit monacus nor glasses a decent story.


----------



## Zef (Dec 12, 2016)

I didn't like Child of Prophecy but I found the incarnation thing cool.


----------



## Klue (Dec 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Hashirama got killed by fodders in the first WW1



Only said Hashirama died sometime after the first war began. Quite a few assumptions you're making there.





Hussain said:


> but his dick riders think he can take on all the Kages in history. Joke is funny because of how bad it is.



Don't be mad his jutsu are far more impressive than bigger Rasegnans.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2016)

> [="Klue, post: 56370241, member: 75443"]Only said Hashirama died sometime after the first war began. Quite a few assumptions you're making there.



It's not assumption. 
It's a fact. The war started, he got killed. Simple.

If @OrganicDinosaur returned, you can ask her. 



> Don't be mad his jutsu are far more impressive than bigger Rasegnans.


Big Rassengan or big woods. Same shit. Pfff

But frankly, they are both boring fighting style. 
But at least Naruto can be creative from time to time. Not so much Hashirama.


----------



## Punished Kiba (Dec 12, 2016)

ok I've got more,

> I think Gaara would've been better off remaining as a Villain instead of becoming the Kazekage
> If Kishi gave other clans focus such as; Inuzuka, Hozuki etc and stopped focusing on the emo clan all time.....Naruto could've been more successful than One Piece.

> Kishi lives in depression after his embarrassment of an ending to an ongoing manga
> Team Taka is a better team than Team 7
> Naruto and Sasuke's "Friendship" (lol) is retarded....Hell, Sasuke was better friends with Suigetsu than he is/was with Naruto.
> If not main character status, Kiba should've had a spin-off series.
> I hate how Naruto always cries like a bitch after virtually every arc.
> Tobirama is the best Hokage and still is
> Naruto manga was awful way before the war arc.......started going to s*** from the Sai and Sasuke arc
> The lack of an Inuzuka child ruined any prospect of Next gen being good or even bearable.



Arles Celes said:


> What about KibaHina?



What about it ?
It would've been a million times better than forced NaruHina....but, I don't really care about pairings that much.
honestly, characters like Hinata and Sakura should've been civilian cheerleaders instead of Ninjas

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 12, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Big Rassengan or big woods. Same shit. Pfff


Naruto uses big balls while Hashirama uses big wood. Fucking Kishi and his parallels.


----------



## Sixpence None The Richer (Dec 12, 2016)

Part 2 Naruto is a disgrace.
Part 2 Naruto Uzumaki is one of the worst Shonen heroes ever conceived.


----------



## Klue (Dec 12, 2016)

Losing Sharingan powers upon opening the Rinnegan, only to possibly reacquire them at the next level up, is dumb.


----------



## fuff (Dec 12, 2016)

...let me guess king's statements are kiba this kiba that...kiba kiba...

reads statement...only one i agree on is kakashi and kiba possibly being somewhat related (clan wise) if kakashi's mom is from there

and some more:

-itachi is way stronger that jijraya
-maybe kishi did want to make itachi good from the begining because of the dialogue he wrote
-kabuto's past was sad
-sarada has a sad past bc sasuke's not there out of all the new gen (so far)
-i think naruto is still a good dad because he sends shadow clones to chill with boruto and himarwari if he cant be there
-sasuke kept in contact with naruto and sakura during his mission
-ino and sai are kinda of a interesting pair (both are pretty blunt)
-idc if i know who's metal's mom is or isnt
-sarada looks better without her glasses
-obito kinda got annoying with his whole rin rin thing
-sakura is a good mom and tired her best to keep sasuke's mission a secret (which she did)
- still wonder how many houses sakura broke
-the taka picture makes no sense still
-ikemoto older boruto...seemed to wanked off sasuke and kakashi..style (cape,sword,mark on eye, on top of that looking like his dad)...seems like a combo of all 3 now that i think of it hahahahhahahhaha
-i dont get why ppl hate sakura so much it makes no sense
-pt1 naruto is brat..makes sense why ppl were mean/annoyed with him (sasuke, sakura)


----------



## Rohan (Dec 13, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> ok I've got more,
> 
> > I think Gaara would've been better off remaining as a Villain instead of becoming the Kazekage
> > If Kishi gave other clans focus such as; Inuzuka, Hozuki etc and stopped focusing on the emo clan all time.....Naruto could've been more successful than One Piece.
> ...



You seem to be annoyed that Kiba is still single and running after cat girls.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## fuff (Dec 13, 2016)

Rohan said:


> You seem to be annoyed that Kiba is still single and running after cat girls.


hes making cat calls

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Rohan (Dec 13, 2016)

fuff said:


> hes making cat calls



That is an even further blot on his character.


----------



## theRonin (Dec 13, 2016)

pat pat said:


> The Uzumaki story could have been 100X more interesting than the uchiha's if Kishi gave it some focus.
> -Kishimoto almost ruined Naruto's character near the end of the manga by making him call a mass-murderer "the coolest guy"
> -Kishimoto had absolutely no clue about what to do with sasuke after Itachi's death, that's were his story should have ended.


Truer Words Were Never Spoken. So much for MC's clan.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Dec 13, 2016)

This is going to be fun. 

- Jiraiya and Itachi are on the same tier.
- Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
- Pain Rikudou is above living Minato; SM Naruto surpassed Minato to fight Pain.
- Naruto would not have narrowed Pain down to one body if he was fighting all six from the beginning, even if Tendo had his powers.
- All MS users have the same MS jutsu Susanoo that Itachi displayed with the same items, the exceptions are Shin, Obito and Shisui.
  > More talented users, I'd say Indra transmigrants, can use different items if they choose to.
  > More talented users can use Kagutsuchi due to their control of Enton, I would include Madara
  > Obito and Shisui only got different powers due to the Hashirama cells/chakra they had; Shin was an experiment with no Uchiha cells
  > Shisui had Hashirama's chakra signature for whatever reason as indicated by Ao
- This was controversial before canon came in: Kurama's shroud provides a natural defence against Enton
- Pain's comment towards Jiraiya referred to that precise scenario; it was not an overall assessment.
- Obito was not afraid of Itachi, he simply honoured his promise.
- With Oro inside him, Sasuke had the potential to use all Orochimaru's jutsu including ET. 
- Madara could do everything Nagato could do including the Ninjutsu mastery and using any type of Ninjutsu.
- Madara didn't need to Kurama to fight on par with SM Hashirama.
- Madara didn't use Mokuton or the Rinnegan's full powers on Hashirama.
- Nagato's unknown instakill jutsu was Limbo since the eyes were Madara's.
- ET Nagato could have beaten KCM Naruto, Bee and Edo Itachi if he was fighting them without Kabuto's limited knowledge of his abilities.
- ET Nagato's Shinra Tensei turned Itachi into dust.
- Living cripple Nagato could have defeated SM Naruto. 
- Healthy living/prime Nagato was at least on 1 eyed Madara's tier but well below 2 eyed Madara. 
  > he could use any jutsu better than Hiruzen could, including elemental fusions etc
  > he was limited to one Limbo body
- Rinnegan Obito could use the Rinnegan powers, the Six Paths, if he wanted.
- Limbo isn't limited to physical attacks, it can do anything the user can do.
- Naruto would've defeated Sasuke in the VOTE2 if he really wanted to.
- Naruto with SPSM (or Kurama-SM mix) can combat the Rinnegan. Except only SPSM can combat limbo.
- MS Sasuke surpassed Itachi.
- SM Naruto surpassed Minato and Jiraiya.
- Orochimaru's initial encounter with Itachi isn't reflective to how a battle would go.
- If Naruto/Minato wanted they could always summon Fukasaku and Shima in battle.
- All Rinnegan jutsu are universal, different users can access different jutsu depending on their ability beyond the Six Paths i.e. Sasuke could use Momoshiki and Madara's limbo and absorption-rebound if he trained enough.
- Momoshiki's jutsu is a variation of the Preta Path.
- Prime Itachi is the same Itachi who lost to Sasuke, except he won't cough blood and won't be hit by easy shuriken attacks.
- All Susanoo can be absorbed by the Preta Path power
- Hagoromo did have a third eye
- The Rinnesharingan is a derivative of the Rinnegan, a MS version of a Rinnegan which compliments it.
- Kaguya could use all Rinnegan powers and lesser powers like MS/Sharingan if she wanted.
- The Sharingan and its forms are basically weakened Rinnegan
- The Rinnegan's Six Paths powers are enough to overcome the MS's trinity without needing to delve into other powers.
- The Tenseigan can beat the MS and EMS.
- Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya.
- Orochimaru did not have a perfected SM, he has some conduit like the CS to let him use some Senjutsu chakra.
- Sage Transformation, the thing Juugo uses... is exactly the same as Sage Mode. They're different names for the same thing.
- Madara could've stomped the Bijuu without Limbo if he wanted.
- Orochimaru couldn't use his full abilities till his arms were unsealed.
- Bee confirmed Tsukuyomi won't work on perfect Jinchuriki.
- Sasuke used Tsukuyomi on Danzo to trick him into thinking Izanagi was active.
- Pain could've trapped 8 tailed Kurama, potentially 9 tailed, if Nagato wasn't extra chakra deprived.
- Madara would've not been Zetsu trolled if PnJ didn't make his Gedo Dama magically defy manga fact.

This is what I recall off the top of my head, I imagine there's more.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 13, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> 
> - Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
> ...

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Rai (Dec 13, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> - Jiraiya and Itachi are on the same tier.
> - Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
> ...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


----------



## Turrin (Dec 13, 2016)

Naruto as a manga has some of the best character designs i've ever seen, but the worst character arcs in any piece of fiction i've ever read.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 13, 2016)

Sakura is a great character. 

Temari, Ino, Karin and 1010 are still in love with Sasuke.  

Kawaki and Salad will hook up. 

Obito is still being cockblocked in the afterlife by Kakashi. 

1010 got as much chakra as Itachi.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## LesExit (Dec 13, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Kawaki and Salad will hook up.


I never even thought of this.

_NOOOOOOO _


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 13, 2016)

LesExit said:


> I never even thought of this.
> 
> _NOOOOOOO _



YEEEEEES 

Red herring(BoruSara) + Shannaro + bad brooding boy (who opposes the "Naruto" of the new generation) + Extreme Angst =.......Guess what?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Dec 13, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> - Jiraiya and Itachi are on the same tier.
> - Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
> ...



I recalled a few more:

- Kabuto was holding back against the Uchiha bros to make sure Sasuke wasn't harmed.
- Sasuke was the reason Itachi was not stomped by Kabuto. 
- Itachi needs the MS to defeat Kakashi, otherwise he can't.
- Kamui is inferior to the Rinnegan since Obito would've taken both Rinnegan if he could.
- Kamui (offensive) can be nullified by Preta and Deva.
- Rinnegan can't go blind with jutsu like Izanagi
- EMS can go blind with jutsu like Izanagi (was controversal till canon came in)
- Minato cannot react to A in battle without Hiraishin
- Rinnegan can use EMS/MS jutsu i.e. Madara can use his own abilities.
- Tomoe Rinnegan is an upgraded Rinnegan which is as strong as 2 Rinnegan, so 2 tomoe Rinnegan = 4 Rinnegan.
- Madara's Rinnegan awakened because he unconsciously took in natural energy by being close to death
> Sasuke's Rinnegan manifested because he was getting Hashirama's cells _and _Sage chakra pumped into him.
- Even healthy Itachi's stamina is comparable to the women and children in the manga as per the databook
- Naruto, post-manga, doesn't go all out when he probably should.
- Kurama forms don't exist anymore, they're replaced with SPSM versions with SPSM being the final transformation.


More as I remember.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Punished Kiba (Dec 13, 2016)

Rohan said:


> You seem to be annoyed that Kiba is still single and running after cat girls.



No, I'm annoyed the Story is utter Shit. 

I tend to care more about the story over characters in Fictional series.....but, this is the one series where you have a character as amazing as Kiba.....placed in one of the worst story driven series....ever.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 13, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> I recalled a few more:
> - Kamui (offensive) can be nullified by Preta and Deva.
> - Rinnegan can't go blind with jutsu like Izanagi
> - Minato cannot react to A in battle without Hiraishin
> ...





I am not sure if those are worst than your previous ones or not.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Garcher (Dec 13, 2016)

Itachi is the best


just kidding, that's not controversial at all

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 13, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> - Jiraiya and Itachi are on the same tier.
> - Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
> ...


holy shit


----------



## Seraphiel (Dec 13, 2016)

Naruto didn't solve anything, controversial just because mongos here can't accept it. Kawaki is the proof that he failed, Oro still being active is another issue.

Hinata consistently goes to have sex with men who are not failure and Naruto gets turned on by it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## adeshina365 (Dec 13, 2016)

That Juugo's Sage Transformation is not inherently inferior to Sennin Mode shouldn't be controversial.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2


----------



## Rohan (Dec 13, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> No, I'm annoyed the Story is utter Shit.
> 
> I tend to care more about the story over characters in Fictional series.....but, this is the one series where you have a character as amazing as Kiba.....placed in one of the worst story driven series....ever.



I agree. But you could always read fanfictions.


----------



## fuff (Dec 13, 2016)

KingForever7 said:


> No, I'm annoyed the Story is utter Shit.
> 
> I tend to care more about the story over characters in Fictional series.....but, this is the one series where you have a character as amazing as Kiba.....placed in one of the worst story driven series....ever.



Who let the dogs out? [Who, who, who, who?!]

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Zef (Dec 13, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Sakura is a great character.






> Temari, Ino, Karin and 1010 are still in love with Sasuke.


Do Temari and Ino fantasize about Sasuke when they're sexing their husbands? 


> Kawaki and Salad will hook up.


Kawaki and Sarada would be much better then BoruSara

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 14, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> This is going to be fun.
> 
> - Jiraiya and Itachi are on the same tier.
> - Minato is only *one *tier above Jiraiya and Itachi.
> ...


I'm on your side when it comes to a lot of the rinnegan stuff. But in some of these opinions i feel you downplay the rinnegan quite a bit.

Good call on oro>jiraiya, realizing prime itachi isn't itachi++++, and madara being able to stomp the bijuu without limbo. All true.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

> BoruSara got more development in the Boruto Movie than SasuSaku got in Part 2

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 14, 2016)

Seraphiel said:


> Naruto didn't solve anything, controversial just because mongos here can't accept it. Kawaki is the proof that he failed, Oro still being active is another issue.


I'm happy that he "failed". World peace among ninja is something not even kishi's terrible mind would completely allow. That's why naruto's character starting going downhill in the first place. Jiraiya's "everyone should understand each other" beliefs, hagoromo's ninshu and any of that other peace vomit kishimoto coughed up is part of why part 2 was a joke.


> Hinata consistently goes to have sex with men who are not failure and Naruto gets turned on by it.


----------



## Zef (Dec 14, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> > Sasuke's Rinnegan manifested because he was getting Hashirama's cells _and _Sage chakra pumped into him.


I agree with this. The way I see it Kabuto laid the foundation for Sasuke to meet Hagaromo, and also awaken Rinnegan.


I highly doubt Hagaromo just appears in people's minds, there has to be a catalyst of some kind. I believe that when Kabuto gave Hashirama's cells (comprised of Hashirama's/Asura's chakra) to Sasuke it mixed with Indra's chakra which allowed Rikudou chakra to manifest inside Sasuke. Which is why he got Rinnegan and also was able to talk to Hagoromo.

For Naruto the Hagaromo meeting, and RSM power-up was a result of Obito giving him the final pieces of Bijuu chakra that he needed, which mingled together to awaken Rikudou chakra within Naruto.


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> > BoruSara got more development in the Boruto Movie than SasuSaku got in Part 2



Developement?
LOL. 

No.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## fuff (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> > BoruSara got more development in the Boruto Movie than SasuSaku got in Part 2


did u forget the headpoke already?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Zef (Dec 14, 2016)

People need to look up the definition of development. Nothing about the BoruSara relationship changed between the Boruto movie and Gaiden. If anything Sarada seemed frequently annoyed by his antics in the film; grabbing his collar and shouting in his ear about becoming Hokage.

Reactions: Dislike 1


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Dec 14, 2016)

Hussain said:


> I am not sure if those are worst than your previous ones or not.



Controversial. 
That said most of the reception ITT seemed to be less strong compared to yours and Rai.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 14, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Controversial.


indeed. You won this thread.


----------



## Brooks (Dec 14, 2016)

-Sarada was an abomination and Sasuke should have killed her or at least ask Orochimaru to change her into a boy.
-Tobirama is the founder of the Nazi.
-Naruto (the character) will forever be shit.
-Logically, Sasuke shouldn't have been a juggernaut with Ameo alone, but Kishimoto decide to nerf the shit out of his Rinnegan, EMS and Ameo.
-The Sasuke vs Kinshiki fight should have been longer.
-Boruto should develope his own fighting style.
-Hinata is the worst character in the series.
-Boruto and Kawaki are about to pull bigger ass-pulls than the Otsutsuki clan.


----------



## fuff (Dec 14, 2016)

-boruto's voice is annoying as fuck...i dunno if i added this before but ya...especially when he yells/shrieks

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 3


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Zef said:


>







Zef said:


> Do Temari and Ino fantasize about Sasuke when they're sexing their husbands?




Ino still dreams of this. And Sasuke kicks Sai's ass in any incarnation.

1010 decided that its simply not worth to find a husbando if he can't be Sasuke. Why bother with a silver medal at most? Smart girl. 


Temari never blushed in Shikamaru's presence. In the epilogue she looks sad/apathetic. Clearly her marriage does not fulfill her needs.


Unlike with Sasuke.


No doubt Ino and Temari have a "headache" every night and don't want to have sex with their husbandos. Instead they go to have some wet dreams about the guy they didn't marry and regret the wasted chance for their kids to inherit some elite Uchiha genes.

Too bad 




Zef said:


> Kawaki and Sarada would be much better then BoruSara



As with everything in this world there are exceptions...but in general I noticed that no fandom seems happy with the idea of BoruSara.

The Uchiha/Sasuke fandom does not want their bloodline to be tainted with Uzumaki BS.

The Uzumaki/Boruto fandom does not want their bloodline to be tainted with Uchiha BS.

Salad fans likely realize that if she becomes a full fledged love interest for Boruto then she will likely be used as a damsel in distress for Boruto too look like a gallant hero instead of being a woman that can deal with problems on her own.

Kawaki at least does not look(for what I can see right now) as a guy who would be protecting his girl all the time but instead (like Sasuke with Sakura) to expect his girl to hold his own and not need rescue.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

fuff said:


> did u forget the headpoke already?


 you call a headpoke "development"?


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> you call a headpoke "development"?



Depends which body part is being poked.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Depends which body part is being poked.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> you call a headpoke "development"?



And with a life of its own

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Those pokes sure pack tons of power. 

Now, if only Sasuke poked a bit lower...

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Corvida said:


> And with a life of its own


You call a poke "development "?


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> You call a poke "development "?



"Development" equals a change in a person.

And those pokes did turn its targets all daydreamy and blushy 

Now you may say "Yeah, but only for a few minutes".

WRONG.

Sakura was left in a permanent state of bliss to the point she even called those pokes as better than a kiss. She dreams of those pokes every day.

Salad also did forgive her dad for everything thanks to those pokes. She did go from sad and resentful to joyful and cheery.

Pokes did make Konoha great again.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> *"Development" equals a change in a person.*
> 
> And those pokes did turn its targets all daydreamy and blushy
> 
> ...


 i agree tho, sasuke is a Lot kinder (but sasusaku is a pairing not a person, this poke changes nothing,  it's still shit). As for sasusaku it's still a piece bad written garbage, and kishi used this poke scene just so sasusaku fans could be happy and have their headcanon ( until gaiden ). This shitty pairing is like a piece of shit kishi made and the top of it, he put a sweet  ( the poke) so it could be acceptable .  loool  .


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> i agree tho, sasuke is a Lot kinder (but sasusaku is a pairing not a person, this poke changes nothing,  it's still shit). As for sasusaku it's still a piece bad written garbage, and kishi used this poke scene just so sasusaku fans could be happy and have their headcanon ( until gaiden ). This shitty pairing is like a piece of shit kishi made and the top of it, he put a sweet  ( the poke) so it could be acceptable .  loool  .



Hmpf, Temari and Ino did not get even a handshake bro.


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Hmpf, Temari and Ino did not get even a handshake bro.


Temari has a husband and a kid, and her husband is here for her and their child......and she doesn't have to run after her husband and give birth in a oro repair . Ino is married to Sai and they have a child, and her husband is there for her . ( InoSai is just outta nowhere tho, no development....but it's ok they were sides characters and we know how sidos are being treated in this manga) And i guess at least Ino and Temari got a kiss from their husbo


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Dec 14, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> I'm on your side when it comes to a lot of the rinnegan stuff. But in some of these opinions i feel you downplay the rinnegan quite a bit.
> 
> Good call on oro>jiraiya, realizing prime itachi isn't itachi++++, and madara being able to stomp the bijuu without limbo. All true.



That is the first time I have ever read someone claim I downplay the Rinnegan. 

Tbh like you outlined with the good calls, the canon is there it is just whether people want to believe it or not.



Zef said:


> I agree with this. The way I see it Kabuto laid the foundation for Sasuke to meet Hagaromo, and also awaken Rinnegan.
> 
> 
> I highly doubt Hagaromo just appears in people's minds, there has to be a catalyst of some kind. I believe that when Kabuto gave Hashirama's cells (comprised of Hashirama's/Asura's chakra) to Sasuke it mixed with Indra's chakra which allowed Rikudou chakra to manifest inside Sasuke. Which is why he got Rinnegan and also was able to talk to Hagoromo.
> ...



The way I see it, Hagoromo probably allowed Sasuke to get the enhanced Rinnegan (the tomoe), and probably Amenojikara, like he helped grant Naruto a new seal. 

I agree though, Naruto's new seal would've been meaningless unless Kurama was actually given to Naruto. Hagoromo said that. 
In the same way, Sasuke could've been given the seal... but it would be useless to even get the basic Rinnegan if Kabuto wasn't going to bring him back to life.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 14, 2016)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> That is the first time I have ever read someone claim I downplay the Rinnegan.


Lol it was in jest. That post was awesome 

You OG like klue and vered with it comes to the rinnegan praise 


> Tbh like you outlined with the good calls, the canon is there it is just whether people want to believe it or not.


Agreed. Posters be so shook of the edo tensei justu and they always omit oro's nigh-immortality/other tools out of battledome scenario's for some reason.

However, they have no problem stacking itachi with kotoamatsukami, izanagi, grossly enhanced fanfic chakra reserves and physical stats. Posters really think itachi can match/outdo EMS sasuke, SM kabuto, and KCM naruto when it comes to speed/reflexes


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> And i guess at least Ino and Temari got a kiss from their husbo



Speculation!!! 

Shikamaru wasn't even blushing when Naruto suggested to him if they were on a date. Nor acted as if he was embarrassed or cared about it.



He never wanted to get married either.


With such an attitude wherever Temari asks for a kiss he likely replies with his signature "What a drag/How troublesome" and just goes playing shougi instead.

Sai is hardly any better. When he met Ino he though of her as ugly and said that she is beautiful just to evade troubloe believing that woman hate when somebody tells the truth about their looks.



All he cares about are penises or at least Naruto's penis. 

For all we know Ino had to posses his body because he just couldn't get hard for her and/or didn't know how to make babies in the first place. 

So Temari or Ino getting a kiss is all fanon. No evidence.

Shikamaru likely spends his days helping Naruto and when not playing shougi. So he likely isn't home either.

And Sai is just a henpecked husband who only follows his wife out of fear. How toxic!!!


While Sasuke can deliver ORGASMIC pokes. 

Plus its canon now that he can use Mass Kage bunshin. Combine it with Susanoo and he can be a monster in bed no doubt!!! 

Shika with his shitty stamina and Sai with his dirty ink only test their waifus patience.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Speculation!!!
> 
> Shikamaru wasn't even blushing when Naruto suggested to him if they were on a date. Nor acted as if he was embarrassed or cared about it.
> 
> ...


Sasuke never kissed sakura...implying that he didn't do it even when they where doing it. That was a One Night Stand bro


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> Sasuke never kissed sakura...implying that he didn't do it even when they where doing it. That was a One Night Stand bro



Sakura admitted that pokes are even better than a kiss tho. 

Kissus are just old fashioned anyway. Uchiha pride would be at stake had he actually kissed her. 

Uchihas are just amazing. They need no sh*tty foreplay.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Sakura admitted that pokes are even better than a kiss tho.


 Because she never experienced it  



> Kissus are just old fashioned anyway. Uchiha pride would be at stake had he actually kissed her.


 Yeah kissing is old fashion, Uchihas don't kiss.......they stab


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> Because she never experienced it





She still considers Sasuke's pokes>>> Kissu



pat pat said:


> Yeah kissing is old fashion, Uchihas don't kiss.......they stab



Should I remind you that Naruto's obsession with Sasuke started when he was stabbed by his chidori the first time?

Those stabs are addictive too. 

Uchiha

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> You call a poke "development "?



I call a poke developement

Allow me to summarize again





poke





  plus -Thank you

Why=?




Why?



pat pat said:


> i agree tho, sasuke is a Lot kinder



Curioser and curioser. And the gesture means nothing at all to him.




> (but sasusaku is a pairing not a person, this poke changes nothing,



And babies come from storks, or cabbages, or Oro´s lab.




pat pat said:


> Sasuke never kissed sakura...implying that he didn't do it even when they where doing it.



Sure?

Do you blush at the recollection of a non kiss?





> That was a One Night Stand bro



Sure? During a_ full_ travelling together stunt?



is that how you translate this?



yeah, I see the tittle




becasue the sake, Sarada

Because of the bunshin, Sarada

Becdasue of Kakashi´s mask, Sarada

Becasue the durex failed , Sarada

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Toph (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Ino still dreams of this. And Sasuke kicks Sai's ass in any incarnation.
> 
> 1010 decided that its simply not worth to find a husbando if he can't be Sasuke. Why bother with a silver medal at most? Smart girl.
> 
> ...



THE UCHIHA SEX DRIVE IS TOO STRONG!!!


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Headcanon sure is powerful

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## pat pat (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Ino still dreams of this. *And Sasuke kicks Sai's ass in any incarnation.*


 He can use a giant megazords tho.



> 1010 decided that its simply not worth to find a husbando if he can't be Sasuke. Why bother with a silver medal at most? Smart girl.


 1010 has a fetish for ninja weapons ,  i don't see why she would want to get married......she can use them as she wants 



> *Temari never blushed in Shikamaru's presence.* In the epilogue she looks sad/apathetic. Clearly her marriage does not fulfill her needs.


Because we barely see them together ,  because they're side characters.....and kishi got too shitty at writing to develop several characters at the same time? [ go see the family meal scene in gaiden....sakura looks sad...oh nope she has sasuke's face  ]


> Unlike with Sasuke.


 Her whole life revolve around the guy, of course she will be happy to see his face....or his penis.....it depends



> No doubt Ino and Temari have a "headache" every night and don't want to have sex with their husbandos. Instead they go to have some wet dreams about the guy they didn't marry and regret the wasted chance for their kids to inherit some elite Uchiha genes.
> 
> Too bad


 Shikamaru can use his shadows to do some cool stuffs  , and Sai spent his whole life with Danzo and the Anbu....he fapped all these years...the dude has experience. And uchiha genes turn people into mad person lr mass murderers ,  no one wants that 




> As with everything in this world there are exceptions...*but in general I noticed that no fandom seems happy with the idea of BoruSara*.


 most people don't give a darn....( me too) those who are not happy with it are uchiha wankers and sakura fans ( because they hate the little guy and think uchiha is a weird royal family....(self insert is dangerous  )  that's why i "support" Borusara ( even tho i don't give a darn) , to piss people off and because with one movie it got more development and makes more sense than that other piece of *****SS 



> The Uchiha/Sasuke fandom does not want their bloodline to be tainted with Uzumaki BS.


 Most ( most not all) of people from the Uchiha/sasuke fandom can't realize this a manga is a piece of fiction 



> The Uzumaki/Boruto fandom does not want their bloodline to be tainted with Uchiha BS.


 The naruto (manga ) fandom is legendary bro 



> Salad fans likely realize that if she becomes a full fledged love interest for Boruto then she will likely be used as a damsel in distress for Boruto too look like a gallant hero instead of being a woman that can deal with problems on her own.


 She wants to be Hokage and Bolt wants to be her right hand, i see no damsel in distress here. Just a beautiful and cute cooperation. And not everyone write female characters like useless shit that needs to be saved or cry all the time. 



> Kawaki at least does not look(for what I can see right now) as a guy who would be protecting his girl all the time


 Because he is a mass murderer and wants to fuck the ninja era up. Of course he won't protect someone who wants to be hokage......he would try to kill that person 


> but instead (like Sasuke with Sakura) to expect his girl to hold his own and not need rescue.


 Because he spent most of his life ignoring her , trash talking her or trying to fking kill her , and when in gaiden he says blablabla my wife will probably have solve the problemwhen we get there...of course it's cool.....but 5 minutes later he went to her rescue...and saved her.....like a damsel in distress 
If anything Sarada being the wifu of Kawaki would only prove that she just like her mom have a thing for criminals 
SaradaXTonton is the only cool pairing tho [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

fuff said:


> did u forget the headpoke already?


Oh my GOD! One panel 

How could I forget!!!!!!

One panel triumphs over real development!!!

Foolish me 



Corvida said:


> Developement?
> LOL.
> 
> No.


Yes I'm so sorry. Asking SasuSaku fan's about development, wrong idea.



Ya'll would accept 300 bad chapters and 1 good chapter and call it "Good"


LOL.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

- The way the sharigan was handeled was more interessting in part 1
- Kumo/Hyuga conflit should have goten more focus
- The Hyuga clan should have goten more focus in general
- Same goes for the Uzumaki clan
- Uchiha's story was only interesting in part 1
- Sasuke was only likable in part 1 and BORUTO
- Naruto's "coolest guy ever" line is utter garbage, the worst line of the serie but I doubt this is really controversial
- Itachi was an idiot
- Rin is the worst female character in the manga
- Minato teleports himself, he's not _actually_ fast like some might say
- Shikamaru doesn't really seems that smart
- Danzo was not the worst vilain of the manga

Regarding the Next Gen :

- While Sarada is really likable, I'm not really interested by her character. I hope Ukyo will make her more interesting but she's has the same goal as the previous MC so it won't be easy.

- I can see why some might not like Boruto ( he doesn't appeal to a lot of people) but while he's not as likable as Sarada, he's the most well writen character of the Next Gen and also better writen than characters from the original manga. He's also interesting as a shonen MC. I hope Ukyo will handel him better than Kishi did with Naruto.

- I really dislike Borusara, even though I like both characters
- Shikadai is too much of a Shikamaru clone ( regarding the personality, the feats and the design except the eyes )
- Chocho is insufferable


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Zef said:


> People need to look up the definition of development. Nothing about the BoruSara relationship changed between the Boruto movie and Gaiden. If anything Sarada seemed frequently annoyed by his antics in the film; grabbing his collar and shouting in his ear about becoming Hokage.


Zef how can you ask people to look up the definition of development when you completely glossed over their relationship 

(This is a short summary, the best I can in terms of cutting shit)

Boruto and Sarada started off as friends who cared for each other, but generally, only Sarada really cared for him internally. In the sense that, she would be willing to watch over him and take it up a notch, in contrast to Boruto who would not even consider her feelings at times. If you want a sheer example of this, look at the scene when Sarada is watching Boruto train, and later when Boruto shows his Rasengan to Sasuke (thinking that he failed), Sarada supports him trying to get Sasuke to accept him.

Boruto on the other-hand wasn't very considerate of her feelings, especially when it came to being the Hokage, aka needing to take the Chunin Exams to progress. However, later into the story, Boruto starts to change. During the Flag test, right before the team was about to grab his flag, Boruto opted to use the KOTE device. However, while he was using it, these memories came to him:

> Something about not wanting to let Naruto down
> A scene with Sarada/Mitsuki (when they all showed their receipts for the Exams)

This shows that, despite his initial beliefs, truly at the heart he did not want to fail because he knew that his team mate would lose too.

At the end of the film, when Boruto finally realizes what he wants to do. He makes it his goal to become a ninja like her father, whilst wanting to support Sarada when she enters the Hokage Office. Basically saying that he'll make it his number one priority to make sure she's safe.

Yeah that relationship is exactly the same as the Gaiden, albeit, character development is something most pairing fan's suck at. Not even excluding anyone on that.

I find it arguably Boruto and Sarada's friendship to be largely more likable and realistic to that of NaruHina/SasuSaku, and that has nothing to do with pairings either. Just friendship

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> He can use a giant megazords tho.


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

But Sasuke's zord is bigger. MUCH bigger. 



pat pat said:


> 1010 has a fetish for ninja weapons ,  i don't see why she would want to get married......she can use them as she wants


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

She never blushed in the presence of her weapons...while in Sasuke's presence... 

Plus Sasuke's PS sword is impressive enough to make her cum.

And Sasuke is more skilled in shurikenjutsu than anyone alive now. She could learn a thing or two from him. 





pat pat said:


> Because we barely see them together ,  because they're side characters.....and kishi got too shitty at writing to develop several characters at the same time? [ go see the family meal scene in gaiden....sakura looks sad...oh nope she has sasuke's face  ]


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

We could argue that SS did not get too much "love time" mostly because Sasuke was redeemed so late.

And Sakura might have made that meal quite bad which is why Sasuke got such expression. Yet does Sasuke slap her for that? 

Sakura looks sad because Salad is in the room and she cannot jump the Uchiha D at that time. Awwww... 




pat pat said:


> Her whole life revolve around the guy, of course she will be happy to see his face....or his penis.....it depends


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Every girl in this manga has her life revolve around Sasuke whether she admits it or not.

And all girls want his penis, yes. 




pat pat said:


> Shikamaru can use his shadows to do some cool stuffs  , and Sai spent his whole life with Danzo and the Anbu....he fapped all these years...the dude has experience. And uchiha genes turn people into mad person lr mass murderers ,  no one wants that


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Like strangle people or paralyze them? Laaaame. His chakra reserves are poor anyway so even a masochistic waifu won't have enough time to cum even once.

Danzou did teach Sai how to discards his feelings. Obviously that includes lust. He knows less about making babies than a 7 year old Sasuke no doubt. 




pat pat said:


> most people don't give a darn....( me too) those who are not happy with it are uchiha wankers and sakura fans ( because they hate the little guy and think uchiha is a weird royal family....(self insert is dangerous  )  that's why i "support" Borusara ( even tho i don't give a darn) , to piss people off and because with one movie it got more development and makes more sense than that other piece of *****SS


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Ehhh, BoruSara is kinda of a weird mix of NaruSaku and SasuNaru.

But I guess its good to troll people...




pat pat said:


> She wants to be Hokage and Bolt wants to be her right hand, i see no damsel in distress here. Just a beautiful and cute cooperation. And not everyone write female characters like useless shit that needs to be saved or cry all the time.


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

For the sake of shipping she would likely need to be put into a position where she would be helpless and vulnerable for Boruto to save her.

Unless of course Ikemoto gives girls more credit than Kishi did which would be good.



pat pat said:


> Because he is a mass murderer and wants to fuck the ninja era up. Of course he won't protect someone who wants to be hokage......he would try to kill that person   Because he spent most of his life ignoring her , trash talking her or trying to fking kill her , and when in gaiden he says blablabla my wife will probably have solve the problemwhen we get there...of course it's cool.....but 5 minutes later he went to her rescue...and saved her.....like a


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Maybe Ikemoto will do what Kishi never did with Sasuke and Sakura...let Salad and Kawaki actually have a fight.

And a one where both opponents are evenly matched.

As for angst and murder attempts that is kinda like courting in this manga. 

Interplay of sex and violence.

Perhaps as Kawaki makes Salad bleed...Salad makes him bleed just as much or more in return. 

Till they are both covered in blood.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> I find it arguably Boruto and Sarada's friendship to be largely more likable and realistic to that of NaruHina/SasuSaku, and that has nothing to do with pairings either. Just friendship


That's because they are supposed to be friends from the start and are portrayed as such. I'm like it but I don't want a romance to bloom. I'm actually glad some scenes were removed in the manga. We never had a solid frienship between a male female character in Naruto, and it would be too predictable/cliché to make them a couple juts because she's a girl, and he's a boy and they are both mains.
I need something new.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> That's because they are supposed to be friends from the start and are portrayed as such. I'm like it but I don't want a romance to bloom. I'm actually glad some scenes were removed in the manga. We never had a solid frienship between a male female character in Naruto, and it would be too predictable/cliché to make them a couple juts because she's a girl, and he's a boy and they are both mains.
> I need something new.


Yeah I don't really care what happens. Although a lot of scenes were removed from the Manga.

I just don't get why people ignore the fact that their friendship and arguably what-ever romance teases were in the Movie, was developed more than some pairings got in the course of 300 chapters.


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> I just don't get why people ignore the fact that their friendship and arguably what-ever romance teases were in the Manga (and Novel right?) was developed more than some pairings got in the course of 300 chapters.


That's because it didn't. Boruto developped in the movie, thus all of his interactions with others changed too. But the relationship between Boruto and Sarada wasn't the focus at any point. They didn't developped together, the relationship didn't developped. Boruto did, that's it.

The real development was between Naruto and Boruto. Their relationship went from point A to point B, it developped. The developpment the characters had individualy influfluenced the relationship but in the case, the relationship influenced the chacters' developpement too.

You can say you like the relationship between Boruto and Sarada more, but it doesn't mean it developped more.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> That's because it didn't. Boruto developped in the movie, thus all of his interactions with others changed too. But the relationship between Boruto and Sarada wasn't the focus at any point. They didn't developped together, the relationship didn't developped. Boruto did, that's it.


Right. But I don't get really get the 'developed' together bit. Do people need to develop together 



Derael said:


> The real development was between Naruto and Boruto. Their relationship went from point A to point B, it developped. The developpment the characters had individualy influfluenced the relationship but in the case, the relationship influenced the chacters' developpement too.


Yeah that's common sense but I don't see the problem here.



Derael said:


> You can say you like the relationship between Boruto and Sarada more, but it doesn't mean it developped more.


I don't see why not though. Their relationship was largely different and fleshed out in contrast to 700/Gaiden where we only saw little pieces of their interactions here and there.

I'd definitely say it got developed more though. The reationships in the Movie follow:

Naruto/Boruto, Sasuke/Boruto, and Sarada/Boruto.

That's the focal point of the development. 

The Movie being about Naruto and Boruto's relationship, Boruto becoming a discple of Sasuke, and Boruto's relationship with Sarada in according to the Hokage position/Goal. Although the last bit was minor, obviously. But connected to the overall story/his development.

We go to see how they treat the each other, and towards all of that, we got to see pieces of how their goals would intertwine. If this doesn't show 'more development' than the Gaiden/700, then I gotta say I'm surprised. I doesn't mean that it brought on 'new' found feelings or none of that. But fleshed out their relationship as comrades/team mates, which the Gaiden did not do much of since they were not team mates yet.

But I digress. Not really that important


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> - Minato teleports himself, he's not _actually_ fast like some might say


He was able smoke every other hokage's boots when in came to shunshin running to the war battlefield. Tobirama who was the fastest of his time had to bow down and hiruzen just reaffirmed what he knew about minato's speed.

Minato needs FTG to keep up with/outpace speed gods like A, but minato is was faster than most kage levels.


> - Shikamaru doesn't really seems that smart


Oh shit fam 

I agree. Kishi did more telling than showing when it came to his smarts. 


> - Shikadai is too much of a Shikamaru clone ( regarding the personality, the feats and the design except the eyes )


I agree. So uninspired.


> Chocho is insufferable


I agree with this as well. Don't get why so many people like her(SS was giving her so much praise during the gaiden).

It's just some fat, dumb bitch. Yup i'm really looking forward to her kishi/ukyo

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

pat pat said:


> Headcanon sure is powerful


YOU´RE TELLING ME?

"one night stand"-Sasuke Uchiha.
Sex with Kakashi mask on
Surrogate bellies
insemination with Itachi´s frozen sperm
I´ve read it all.



Derael said:


> T*hat's because it didn't*. Boruto developped in the movie, thus all of his interactions with others changed too. But the relationship between Boruto and Sarada wasn't the focus at any point. *They didn't developped together,* the relationship didn't developped. Boruto did, that's it.
> 
> *The real development was between Naruto and Boruto*. Their relationship went from point A to point B, it developped.



BRAVO


lndra said:


> Right. But I don't get really get the 'developed' together bit. Do people need to develop together


Yes. That´s what your part one amnesia  prevents you to see.



> Yeah that's common sense but I don't see the problem here.



Becasue you´re mistaking "fleshing out" with "developing"._ Developing_ should start from now on.With Boruto having completed his  character arc.Sarada was static respect to him  from beginning to  end.


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Corvida said:


> Yes. That´s what your part one amnesia  prevents you to see.


I disagree, I'll explain below.



Corvida said:


> Becasue you´re mistaking "fleshing out" with "developing"._ Developing_ should start from now on.With Boruto having completed his  character arc.Sarada was static erspect to him  from beginning to  end.


I wasn't talking about Sarada in the relationship though. Boruto was the one who developed, more so, like we were saying.

More over, their relationship was fleshed out more as team mates. But towards the start and end, Boruto's feelings for his comrades were developed due to his initial response to her goal, and just her, weren't always positive in contrast.

He went from not giving a shit, to giving to shit, and then to protecting shit.

That's not their relationship being fleshed out, but being developed.

I hope no one actually thinks that I was talking about their somehow largely stated romance 

We've talked about this before and you warned me already. I was just stating that their relationship, even as friends, got largely fleshed out more others.


----------



## Zef (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> That's because it didn't. Boruto developped in the movie, thus all of his interactions with others changed too. But the relationship between Boruto and Sarada wasn't the focus at any point. They didn't developped together, the relationship didn't developped. Boruto did, that's it.
> 
> The real development was between Naruto and Boruto. Their relationship went from point A to point B, it developped. The developpment the characters had individualy influfluenced the relationship but in the case, the relationship influenced the chacters' developpement too.
> 
> You can say you like the relationship between Boruto and Sarada more, but it doesn't mean it developped more.


Precisely.

@lndra

Character Interaction =/= Character Development

Boruto's relationship with Sarada didn't develop, and it wasn't supposed to. The movie was about Boruto's relationship with his father. He started out hating his father, and now he forgives his dad because they both have a mutual understanding.

That's development.

Boruto and Sarada talking about exams and shit ain't development. 

If their relationship looks more fleshed out it's only because they were briefly seen interacting in Gaiden. Not because the nature of their relationship changed.


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Zef said:


> Precisely.
> 
> @lndra
> 
> ...




But their relationship did change!

Boruto went from not caring about Sarada's goal as the Hokage, to starting to care, to making it his goal to protect her. Short and sweet.

How is that not development on their relationship? He wasn't the greatest friend to her at first because he scoffed at her dreams, and towards the end he made it his goal to support her dreams.

Would that not be development on their friendship?


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> Right. But I don't get really get the 'developed' together bit. Do people need to develop together



... I'm not good at explaining stuff. It seems obvious to me. I'll try...

The focus of Boruto's developpement was about his relationship with his father, his goal and motivation. The fact that his interations with Sarada changed (not that we really saw much of it), is due to him accepting/understanding/respecting the Hokage's role, etc... It's because of his own character developpement.

This influenced his interactions with everyone. At the end of the movie, we see him interacting with his mother, father, and teamates. We can see the difference comparing to the begining of the movie but Boruto/Hinata and Boruto/Sarada relationship didn't really developped throughout the movie.

A relationship involves at least 2 people, the say that the relationship developped, the developpement needs to happend between the two people, not just one of the two.
A relationship develops through the interactions the 2 people involved have together. Sarada and Boruto's interactions with each other didn't changed their relationship. The last part of the movie shows that he will suport her now, but you can't say that this is more developpement other relationships from the manga had.



lndra said:


> I don't see why not though. Their relationship was largely different and fleshed out in contrast to 700/Gaiden where we only saw little pieces of their interactions here and there.



This is what you said:


> I just don't get why people ignore the fact that their friendship [...] was developed more than some pairings got in the course of 300 chapters




You were not talking about the developpement in contrat to Gaiden, but to other relationship. I disagree, even though the pairings are not really good.

I hope you understand what I mean. Trying to translate my thoughts in english makes it even harder to explain.



blackguyinpinksuit said:


> He was able smoke every other hokage's boots when in came to shunshin running to the war battlefield. Tobirama who was the fastest of his time had to bow down and hiruzen just reaffirmed what he knew about minato's speed.
> 
> Minato needs FTG to keep up with/outpace speed gods like A, but minato is was faster than most kage levels.


I mean that teleporting is not the same as having a high speed. It's changing position in space. No speed or acceleration involved.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

I wonder if the events after the movie will have Boruto return to being a dick to his dad or show some growth.

I mean...it looked like the pep talk he got from Naruto in the epilogue moved him but then we saw that their relationship was "rockier" than in the epilogue.


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> I disagree, I'll explain below.
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking about Sarada in the relationship though. Boruto was the one who developed,


.

That´s the problem



> More over, their relationship was fleshed out more as team mates. But towards the start and end, Boruto's feelings for his comrades were developed due to his initial response to her goal, and just her, weren't always positive in contrast.
> 
> He went from not giving a shit, to giving to shit, and then to protecting shit.
> 
> That's not their relationship being fleshed out, but being developed.


No, Indra.That´s Boruto, that stops being a Brat,simply as that.Sarada and Mitsuki get both largely static and always  consistently watchful and  supportive of him at  whatwever stage...the little time the have in the movie excpt for chasing pandas and Boruto failing them in the chuunim exams in a way all the teams in part one, even team, 7! graduated with honours.



> I hope no one actually thinks that I was talking about their somehow largely stated romance


No, we got you.



> We've talked about this before and you warned me already. I was just stating that their relationship, even as friends, got largely fleshed out more others.



No, not yet.The afct of having Boruto declaring he will respect Sarada´s goal at the end of his own hero trip doesnt make a  friendship more fleshed out that others, only less _dramatic_.They simply * still *hadnt enough time.


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> we saw that their relationship was "rockier" than in the epilogue.


What do you mean by that? We didn't get to see them intereact after the epilogue yet.


----------



## Indra (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> ... I'm not good at explaining stuff. It seems obvious to me. I'll try...
> 
> The focus of Boruto's developpement was about his relationship with his father, his goal and motivation. The fact that his interations with Sarada changed (not that we really saw much of it), is due to him accepting/understanding/respecting the Hokage's role, etc... It's because of his own character developpement.


Right.



Derael said:


> This influenced his interactions with everyone. At the end of the movie, we see him interacting with his mother, father, and teamates. We can see the difference comparing to the begining of the movie but Boruto/Hinata and Boruto/Sarada relationship didn't really developped throughout the movie.


I have to point out one thing that makes me not agree fully. Because, largely, what you said is true but its not really just because he changed due to accepting the Hokage's. Boruto started to reconsider his initial feelings about his team mate during he flag scene, and when Momoshiki attacked, he put himself in a position to put his friend first because he messed up.

Towards the end it meets full circle like you said, but I would say that their relationship was changing 

At least on his part.



Derael said:


> A relationship involves at least 2 people, the say that the relationship developped, the developpement needs to happend between the two people, not just one of the two.
> A relationship develops through the interactions the 2 people involved have together. Sarada and Boruto's interactions with each other didn't changed their relationship. The last part of the movie shows that he will suport her now, but you can't say that this is more developpement other relationships from the manga had.


I agree with 'a least two people' need to evolve, somewhat. A bit hypocritical since some of these Naruto pairings had none of that, most of the evolution happened between one person when they finally accepted the other's feelings ... But that's neither here nor there.

I talked about why their relationship started to change because Boruto was becoming more self aware, before he started to accept the Hokage position. So I hope it makes sense 





Derael said:


> .This is what you said:
> You were not talking about the developpement in contrat to Gaiden, but to other relationship. I disagree, even though the pairings are not really good.


That's initially what I said, but the Gaiden is the prologue of the Movie, and the first time we see them interact. Hence why it was brought up.




Corvida said:


> .
> No, Indra.That´s Boruto, that stops being a Brat,simply as that.Sarada and Mitsuki get both largely static and always  consistently watchful and  supportive of him at  whatwever stage...the little time the have in the movie excpt for chasing pandas and Boruto failing them in the chuunim exams in a way all the teams in part one, even team, 7! graduated with honours.


So to you, Boruto not changing as a person in contrast to his relationships changing (at least to Sarada's) is not considered development? He never really treated anyone differently bar this relationship.



Corvida said:


> No, we got you.
> 
> No, not yet.The afct of having Boruto declaring he will respect Sarada´s goal at the end of his own hero trip doesnt make a  friendship more fleshed out that others, only less _dramatic_.They simply *still *hadnt enough time.


I agree.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Derael said:


> What do you mean by that? We didn't get to see them intereact after the epilogue yet.



I mean the manga's epilogue.

And the movie takes place after said epilogue.


----------



## Derael (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> I have to point out one thing that makes me not agree fully. Because, largely, what you said is true but its not really just because he changed due to accepting the Hokage's. Boruto started to reconsider his initial feelings about his team mate during he flag scene, and when Momoshiki attacked, he put himself in a position to put his friend first because he messed up.
> 
> Towards the end it meets full circle like you said, but I would say that their relationship was changing
> 
> At least on his part.


On his part, yes . We agree.
By the way :


Derael said:


> due to him accepting/understanding/respecting the Hokage's role, *etc...*


I knew it wasn't just about the Hokage. I was just too lazy to type it.



Arles Celes said:


> I mean the manga's epilogue.
> 
> And the movie takes place after said epilogue.


You mean 700? Ah, I understand now. Well, it's impliyed in the Boruto movie/manga (+ writen in the novel) that Naruto missed Boruto's birthday before missing Himawari's. Naruto probably made a promise and didn't respected it. He must have hurt Boruto's feeling which is why he's more angry at his father than before. 
Plus, you can't really change a kid's feeling with a small pep talk :
"You need to share your dad with the village now"

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Corvida (Dec 14, 2016)

lndra said:


> So to you, Boruto not changing as a person in contrast to his relationships changing (at least to Sarada's) is not considered development? He never really treated anyone differently bar this relationship.



Yes...a developement of Boruto´s character.And we knew since the beginning he was more proptective and less kerkiss than hen looked, daddy issues were the problem. IF-and that´s a big if, said changing of the kid as a person would have happened becasue of a developement of his relationship with  Sarada, we would be talking-but the point and key  of the movie was father and child relationship-that included  both Naruto and Boruto and even Sasuke and Boruto as mentor and disciple-who could even tell that Sasuke would positively influence someone after part 2?
But I´m sure if we have a movie really centered in team Konohamaru or this spin off thing goes on,we will see how Boruto´s relationship with both Sarada and Mitsuki develops.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Suoh (Dec 14, 2016)

SS is a terrible pairing
NS is not much better
Tobirama best Hokage
Madara was a dull War Arc villain
Naruto is pretty annoying
Shino could have been half decent if he had been given some love
Killer Bee is stronger than Itachi
Having the manga end after Pein would have been terrible
Both Naruto and Sasuke should have died at Vote 2


----------



## Toph (Dec 14, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Oh shit fam
> 
> I agree. Kishi did more telling than showing when it came to his smarts.




I like how all this apparent "smart kid" does is spout the most obvious bullshit.

>Tells everyone to walk single file
>"HOLY SHIT, HE'S SO SMART! He made up the perfect formation on the spot!"
>Realizes Hidan's circle might be have a connection to his techniques
>"OH WOW! His analytical skills are among the best!"

It was even worse in the anime with the pacing. You could practically hear the gears turning in their heads.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Deana (Dec 14, 2016)

Yep, Sarada's crush is going to alienate her from a lot of her fans . . . That sounds tragically familiar.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Deana said:


> Yep, Sarada's crush is going to alienate her from a lot of her fans . . . That sounds tragically familiar.



Unless she earns enough power feats to make her a heroine in the battledome.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Deana (Dec 14, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> Unless she earns enough power feats to make her a heroine in the battledome.


Oh, being Sasuke's daughter she'll have power feats.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Deana said:


> Oh, being Sasuke's daughter she'll have power feats.



She may also stick to the daddy's girl role. 

No girl yet played such a role before so it would be new and original. 

Staying away from romance, earning MS...maybe even Rinnegan.

So much potential haxxxx.


----------



## Deana (Dec 14, 2016)

^^Just her dream of being hokage puts her above the majority of the characters period. Someone is daring to dream of taken Naruto's job. I think only Kiba and Konohamaru dared to be so bold.


----------



## Toph (Dec 14, 2016)

Deana said:


> ^^Just her dream of being hokage puts her above the majority of characters period. Someone is daring to dream of taken Naruto's job. I think only Kiba and Konohamaru dared to be so bold.



As if the Hokage goal holds any deep meaning anymore when everyone and their moms wants that title. Besides that point, Sarada is bound to get the Hokage title anyway due to nepotism/cronyism like with Naruto, Kakashi and the other Hokage before them.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Deana said:


> ^^Just her dream of being hokage puts her above the majority of characters period. Someone is daring to dream of taken Naruto's job. I think only Kiba and Konohamaru dared to be so bold.



Yup, and they lacked Rikudou lineage.

One being a Yamcha and the other a wannabe (butt)monkey.

Kissing the ass of a cat lady and babysitting is what they do. 

Being a member of a new Team Destiny and armed with a superlottery dojutsu makes life much easier. 




HoroHoro said:


> As if the Hokage goal holds any deep meaning anymore when everyone and their moms wants that title. Besides that point, Sarada is bound to get the Hokage title anyway due to nepotism/cronyism like with Naruto, Kakashi and the other Hokage before them.



Which shows how the manga will teach how important is to have friends in high places if you want to end up hitting it big yourself. 

Truth in television.


----------



## Deana (Dec 14, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> As if the Hokage goal holds any deep meaning anymore when everyone and their moms wants that title. Besides that point, Sarada is bound to get the Hokage title anyway due to nepotism/cronyism like with Naruto, Kakashi and the other Hokage before them.





Arles Celes said:


> Yup, and they lacked Rikudou lineage.
> 
> One being a Yamcha and the other a wannabe (butt)monkey.
> 
> ...


When I used the title Naruto's job, I meant she evolved pass the hive mind of church of Naruto. He's the best. He shall be Hokage forever.


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 14, 2016)

Deana said:


> When I used the title Naruto's job, I meant she evolved pass the hive mind of church of Naruto. He's the best. He shall be Hokage forever.



So Salad evolved to the point of choosing to start for a "President of the Narutoverse" role rather than a mere Hokage?

She will make the Narutoverse great again?

You are right there.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 14, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> I like how all this apparent "smart kid" does is spout the most obvious bullshit.
> 
> >Tells everyone to walk single file
> >"HOLY SHIT, HE'S SO SMART! He made up the perfect formation on the spot!"
> ...


>Apparently has a IQ of 200
>Apparently can stay 10 steps past his opponent, form 100 strategies, and choose the best one in moments
>Apparently is the smartest man in the land of fire by the time he reach adulthood

Yet that was all he was capable of? Sure thing kishi 

It was so delicious seeing him cry about how he couldn't think of a plan against the juubi. He needs to stay in a low tier's place


----------



## Kujiro Anodite (Dec 15, 2016)

Ino is the best female!


----------



## fuff (Dec 15, 2016)

-I STILL hate how kishi made sasuke gone for so long but at least we know sasuke was there in her early life..even tho we dont know her age when sasuke left 
-kawaki is a sasuke wannabe
-tsunade and jijraya were just friends
-hizuren is the WORST hokage
-tobirama is a racist
-people need to stop believing that sasuke isnt coming back due to having the sharigan and rinnegan based on the shinden fillers on what team taka said (Sasuke never even said that lol)
-the timeline is so fucked and i hate how kishi didnt explain everything
-

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Azula (Dec 15, 2016)

Naruto deserved better friends than his teammates.

Nobody deserves that kind of toxicity in their lives.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 8


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 15, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Naruto deserved better friends than his teammates.
> 
> Nobody deserves that kind of toxicity in their lives.


Yup, Team 7 was dysfunctional as fuck

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 15, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Naruto deserved better friends than his teammates.
> 
> Nobody deserves that kind of toxicity in their lives.



That was only because Naruto did get too goody-goody.

Kishi was obsessed with the Yin Yang balance and shit.

So the more of a martyr was Naruto turning in the more of a jerk Sasuke had to be.

Had Naruto been a tiny bit more neutralish then Sasuke would be lower on crack/darkness too.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 15, 2016)

Arles Celes said:


> That was only because Naruto did get too goody-goody.
> 
> Kishi was obsessed with the Yin Yang balance and shit.
> 
> ...



Which would've required Kishimoto to be subtle during the last arc... which he wasn't capable of at that point 

Kishi was more interested in chakra-megazoids beating the shit out of each other, thus 'resolving' an argument by a bogus battle (instead of the two actually using their brains, which especially Sasuke should've be able to do). Apparently Kishi thinks we're all a bunch of dimwits who need to be shown that Naruto is "good" and that all who disagree with our lord prophet are wrong... only for Kishi to show how Naruto fucks up after a timeskip


----------



## LesExit (Dec 15, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Naruto deserved better friends than his teammates.
> 
> Nobody deserves that kind of toxicity in their lives.


Do you consider some of the rookies better friends? Like Kiba, Shikamaru, Lee or Chouji? I don't get why we never saw Naruto being closer to the other rookies. The narrative made it seem like without Sasuke, Naruto would be lonely, but there's so many people that cared about Naruto. I just wanted more rookie interactions

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


----------



## Ayala (Dec 15, 2016)

LesExit said:


> Do you consider some of the rookies better friends? Like Kiba, Shikamaru, Lee or Chouji? I don't get why we never saw Naruto being closer to the other rookies. The narrative made it seem like without Sasuke, Naruto would be lonely, but there's so many people that cared about Naruto. I just wanted more rookie interactions



Man i watched that movie where Naruto is home all alone playing cards with his clones and then releasing them when they started beating each other.... That was sad, Naruto was all by himself while the other guys were going to the hot baths passing right by his house. You can bet he was lonely.

It was only rock Lee that called him, blessed be that guy.


----------



## Zef (Dec 15, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Naruto deserved better friends than his teammates.
> 
> Nobody deserves that kind of toxicity in their lives.


>Implying Naruto didn't contribute to the toxicity.  

He tied up Sasuke and impersonated him within what? The first three chapters?  Y'all need to GTFO with this self righteous Nardo BS.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 15, 2016)

Zef said:


> >Implying Naruto didn't contribute to the toxicity.
> 
> He tied up Sasuke and impersonated him within what? The first three chapters?  Y'all need to GTFO with this self righteous Nardo BS.



Yeah, a socially stunted teenager trying to get some attention through pranks is worse than the murder and betrayal that happened later 

Jokes aside, it would've been better for both Sasuke _and_ Naruto if they had ended up in separate teams. And in Sasuke's case, it would've been good if he had had a teacher who actually gave a damn- enough to prevent him from going full retard and run off to Orochimaru.. Team 7 was dysfunctional because non of the members really seemed to fit in, Kakashi least of all.


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 15, 2016)

Zef said:


> >Implying Naruto didn't contribute to the toxicity.
> 
> He tied up Sasuke and impersonated him within what? The first three chapters?  Y'all need to GTFO with this self righteous Nardo BS.



It's a silly complaint honestly. It makes out Naruto to be this poor victim when *HE* was the one who willingly pursued, or rather, forced, the friendship with team 7 and Sasuke. And he did have better friends. The likes of Shikamaru and Gaara were his bros and supported his dream with their lives, but it's just that Naruto was too fixated on the guy who'd sooner shank him with a Chidori to care.

If anything, it's those "better friends" that deserved better. They actually supported Naruto only to be second fiddle to his attempted murderer.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 6 | Winner 1


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 15, 2016)

VHS said:


> It's a silly complaint honestly. It makes out Naruto to be this poor victim when *HE* was the one who willingly pursued, or rather, forced, the friendship with team 7 and Sasuke. And he did have better friends. The likes of Shikamaru and Gaara were his bros and supported his dream with their lives, but it's just that Naruto was too fixated on the guy who'd sooner shank him with a Chidori to care.
> 
> If anything, it's those "better friends" that deserved better. They actually suported Naruto only to be second fiddle to his attempted murderer.



It would all be fixed if Naruto was outright stated to be a hardcore masochist.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 15, 2016)

Naruto who was consumed of loneliness got kid who saw his entire family get killed and self absorbed female.

He striked out pretty fast


----------



## Ayala (Dec 15, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Yeah, a socially stunted teenager trying to get some attention through pranks is worse than the murder and betrayal that happened later
> 
> Jokes aside, it would've been better for both Sasuke _and_ Naruto if they had ended up in separate teams. And in Sasuke's case, it would've been good if he had had a teacher who actually gave a damn- enough to prevent him from going full retard and run off to Orochimaru.. Team 7 was dysfunctional because non of the members really seemed to fit in, Kakashi least of all.




Wow they blame it on Kakashi this time. Kakashi had the boy tied to a tree while he gave him a long ass lecture (which is more than Kakashi ever does anyway) just the night he left Konoha. 4 thugs he never meet before and worked directly under the one who caused wreck in his village and killed his hokage convinced him to leave that same night, after they beat him up. The fuck can you do with a kid like that. 

And it's not like Kakashi charged full speed to stop him from leaving the Konoha borders the moment he knew and turned from the mission. 

Kakashi's not a babysitter, no teacher in the nardoverse was one. Kakashi just teached him his signature jutsu, in one month, and then he left cause he an avenger


----------



## Trojan (Dec 15, 2016)

Naruto was playing with Shika, Choji, and Kiba during the academy days. It's just Kishi forcing this whole Sasuke nonsense and how he is supposedly Naruto's "best" friend. Even tho all the other kids were much better toward Naruto than Sasuke ever did.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## I Blue I (Dec 15, 2016)

Yes, Naruto and Sasuke's supposed deep connection was always so contrived. And Team 7 as a whole was always a goddamn mess that just never worked. Sakura was pretty much always left out of anything important, Kakashi was negligent, Naruto and Sasuke were made to have this nonsensical relationship that really would have only made any sense if it was revealed that they were in love with each other. Team 10 was a much more believable representation of teamwork and friendship, in my opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## adeshina365 (Dec 15, 2016)

SM Naruto is severely overrated.


----------



## SoulFire (Dec 15, 2016)

Naruto is not an idiot or a pervert.
Sasuke is not a member of the woman hater wife beater club
Sakura is not a tsundere bitch
Hinata was never a fainting stuttering stalker

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Azula (Dec 15, 2016)

Zef said:


> >Implying Naruto didn't contribute to the toxicity.


Do tell about Naruto's toxic behavior towards sasuke and sakura.



> He tied up Sasuke and impersonated him within what? The first three chapters?  Y'all need to GTFO with this self righteous Nardo BS.



Prank when they were barely acquiantances.
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here. 

Do I really have to start lecturing about the gag parts of the manga and the serious parts?

Their actual relationship contains lots of toxicity.

You might wanna start reading the rest of 697 chapters.
It may shock you.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Zef (Dec 15, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Do tell about Naruto's toxic behavior towards sasuke and sakura.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're going to lecture me on gags then you should have no issue with Sakura beating Naruto to a pulp. And yet I'm pretty sure I've seen you whine about it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Lovely (Dec 16, 2016)

- Sarada is the only new gen kid who feels like her own character, and not just a lazy mix of her parents. This is largely due to her development in Gaiden however and could change in the future.

- Chocho is adorable and not annoying. I enjoy her lighthearted personality.

- Oro being able to walk away freely and continue his experiments makes no sense.

- The Boruto manga should be canceled. 

- Sakura is a good mother

- Naruto's personality is at its best as an adult. His maturity and increased seriousness is refreshing.

- Sasuke loves Sakura and Sarada deeply.

- Kishi should occasionally come back to Naruto to write one-shots

- The Boruto movie wasn't that great

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Arthas (Dec 16, 2016)

-Azula- said:


> Do tell about Naruto's toxic behavior towards sasuke and sakura.
> 
> 
> 
> Prank when they were barely acquiantances.



Yeah prank just after they became team mates.

Your first impression of your new team mate is that he tied you up and impersonated you to get into a girl's pants.

That's not even mentioning how it would appear on Sakura's end.

Naruto impersonated her crush, made her believe her feelings were returned and tried to kiss her. Imagine if you were Sakura or your child was Sakura and someone tried this on them...

Seriously if they were a few years older It could very well be an attempted rape by impersonation type of thing.

That is going to induce such good feelings of team work and camaraderie...NOT.

I don't exactly like Sakura but in *this* case I am completely on her side.


----------



## Indra (Dec 16, 2016)

Team 7 was already messed up before that scene, though.

Sasuke was dealing with his own hatred against his brother, he was not looking to make friends.

Sakura did not even like Naruto, she was constantly hitting him when he pissed her off, and in rhe beginning, she was completely ignorant to his situation all together (in terms of being an orphan).

I don't even blame Naruto for wanting to strive for relationships in the wrong way. He really didn't have any friends, or comrades until he joined a team. The rest of the K11 follow in suit after Sakura/Sasuke/Kakashi.

Bar Konohamaru/Iruka tho.


----------



## fuff (Dec 16, 2016)

-boruto movie is getting so over played manga, game...


----------



## Arthas (Dec 16, 2016)

lndra said:


> Team 7 was already messed up before that scene, though.
> 
> Sasuke was dealing with his own hatred against his brother, he was not looking to make friends.
> 
> ...




Problem with that is Kishi tried to have it both ways. Claiming Naruto didn't have any friends then showing him hanging out with Kiba, Choji etc at school.

This again comes down to Kishi's writing style of TELL one thing SHOW another.

I honestly can't really recall many instances of Naruto being hated or discriminated against by his classmates. He acted like a class clown and was treated like a class clown but actual hatred or discrimination?

Similarly there were not many examples of the adults actually discriminating against Naruto that I recall which I honestly feel ruined the whole Konoha not betraying and having faith in Naruto scene during the Pein Invasion. It would have been much more powerfull scene if we had examples of people who treated Naruto shabbily now having faith in him.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 16, 2016)

Arthas said:


> Problem with that is Kishi tried to have it both ways. Claiming Naruto didn't have any friends then showing him hanging out with Kiba, Choji etc at school.
> 
> This again comes down to Kishi's writing style of TELL one thing SHOW another.
> 
> ...



I think it was mostly Ebisu.

He was also during Pain attack on Konoha THE ex-Naruto hater who had shown how much his opinion of Naruto changed for the better.

Though Kishi perhaps shouldn't make Ebisu start showing signs of respect for Naruto back in part 1 when he was asked for Kakashi to teach Naruto some chakra control. Already after seeing Naruto's determination and unwillingness to take shortcuts Ebisu was beginning to reconsider his previous contempt for Naruto.

Then again plenty of contempt might have also come from the fact that Naruto was causing trouble to the teachers, sleeping during class and showing no intention of taking things seriously.

I guess Kishi did not show too much discrimination simply to not make Konoha as huge jerks. It was supposed to be the village that represented the Will of Fire-the most positive ideology.

Even with Uchihas Kishi did not show how the Uchihas were discriminated aside from how they were forced to settle on the edge of the village. If too much discrimination was shown there would be hard to see Konoha as the ones in the right. So Kishi just focused on "Tell not show" approach.

Finally IMO Kishi should have shown the elders to revise their opinion on Naruto most of all. Even in part 2 they treated Naruto like a weapon and sympathized with Danzou. When Tsunade collapsed they looked as if they felt she deserved it. Never they were shown "converting" even though they needed it more than anyone else. Not to mention they role in the Uchiha clan's demise. Sasuke deserved at least an apology.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 16, 2016)

Arthas said:


> Problem with that is Kishi tried to have it both ways. Claiming Naruto didn't have any friends then showing him hanging out with Kiba, Choji etc at school.


Naruto was allowed to hang around with most of the Village's children, as long as there wasn't parental super vision. When an Adult (who knew of his situation) saw Naruto interacting with their kids, they stopped the playing immediately. Unless this scene only happened in the anime, plus I am way too lazy to look for the scans. 

Plus, Hiruzen I am assuming made it clear that no one was to know that Naruto was a Jinchuriki, not even Naruto himself up until he met Jiraiya. So the parents could not tell their own kids why hey could not hang out or socialize with Naruto, nor did Naruto understand why the Adults tried to make everyone avoid him.



Arthas said:


> I honestly can't really recall many instances of Naruto being hated or discriminated against by his classmates. He acted like a class clown and was treated like a class clown but actual hatred or discrimination?
> 
> Similarly there were not many examples of the adults actually discriminating against Naruto that I recall which I honestly feel ruined the whole Konoha not betraying and having faith in Naruto scene during the Pein Invasion. It would have been much more powerfull scene if we had examples of people who treated Naruto shabbily now having faith in him.




I had this on call. But anyway, no one generally discriminated against Naruto post-Team 7. He was away from the Village most of the time anyway, and when he did solemnly return, it was after completing a mission.

I do think Naruto's big break in terms of earning the favor of the community, was in the Chunin Exams. Highly doubt anyone hated his ass in Shippuden, other than Sasuke at least.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## MS81 (Dec 16, 2016)

I wished that Kakashi either had Boss dog summon or something similar, kept the sharingan with Naruto sage chakra.
It was really pointless to give him hokage role with no power.
I always thought it was silly to take away his rikudou chakra but keep his eye that Naruto used with his rikudou powers?!?!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Arthas (Dec 16, 2016)

lndra said:


> Naruto was allowed to hang around with most of the Village's children, as long as there wasn't parental super vision. When an Adult (who knew of his situation) saw Naruto interacting with their kids, they stopped the playing immediately. Unless this scene only happened in the anime, plus I am way too lazy to look for the scans.
> 
> Plus, Hiruzen I am assuming made it clear that no one was to know that Naruto was a Jinchuriki, not even Naruto himself up until he met Jiraiya. So the parents could not tell their own kids why hey could not hang out or socialize with Naruto, nor did Naruto understand why the Adults tried to make everyone avoid him.



Unless those parents had super senses and time to spare then having parents forbidding such socialization would make hanging out with Naruto more fun for many kids.

Also the fact that the adults tried to shun him, does not mean Naruto did not have friends which was also shown in flashbacks (which is again the problem with Kishi's story telling.)



lndra said:


> I had this on call. But anyway, no one generally discriminated against Naruto post-Team 7. He adicts was away from the Village most of the time anyway, and when he did solemnly return, it was after completing a mission.
> 
> I do think Naruto's big break in terms of earning the favor of the community, was in the Chunin Exams. Highly doubt anyone hated his ass in Shippuden, other than Sasuke at least.



This is also the problem:

Kishi Tells something but barely Shows it if at all and sometimes shows something that contradicts what he Tells.

We got your attached flash back above but then we got flash backs of Naruto hanging around Choji and Kiba etc and then


----------



## SoulFire (Dec 16, 2016)

lndra said:


> I do think Naruto's big break in terms of earning the favor of the community, was in the Chunin Exams. Highly doubt anyone hated his ass in Shippuden, other than Sasuke at least.


Such treatment as a small child obviously stuck with Naruto even into his teen years. This was made apparent when he hesitated to give an autograph to that admiring Shinobi in Ichiraku. He held inside longtime feelings of resentment and pain from those early years and simply could not believe that the village who had treated him with such disdain now 'loved' him and only after he faced those feelings at the Waterfall of Truth that he could accept it as true.



Arthas said:


> Also the fact that the adults tried to shun him, does not mean Naruto did not have friends which was also shown in flashbacks (which is again the problem





Arthas said:


> We got your attached flash back above but then we got flash backs of Naruto hanging around Choji and Kiba etc and then


Just because Naruto was able to hang around with the other class disrupters does not mean that he was an accepted member of the group. He was still mocked and given little respect even as a hanger on within their ranks. Naruto was desperate enough for companionship to tolerate the abuse and play the fool just to be in their company.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Zyrax (Dec 16, 2016)

I agree


----------



## Arthas (Dec 16, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> Such treatment as a small child obviously stuck with Naruto even into his teen years. This was made apparent when he hesitated to give an autograph to that admiring Shinobi in Ichiraku. He held inside longtime feelings of resentment and pain from those early years and simply could not believe that the village who had treated him with such disdain now 'loved' him and only after he faced those feelings at the Waterfall of Truth that he could accept it as true.



The point I am trying to make is that we the readers were never truelly shown this 'prejiduice' against Naruto. There a few panels at best but there was practically no discrimination based on Naruto being a jinchuuriki once the manga started.

It takes the teeth out of the claim that Naruto strove to over come such treatment.

The same basic complaint also applies to other aspects of the manga:

Kyuubi's sudden 'friendship' with Naruto when it would have been better shown as a build up over the years.

Discrimination against the Uchiha 

etc...



SoulFire! said:


> Just because Naruto was able to hang around with the other class disrupters does not mean that he was an accepted member of the group. He was still mocked and given little respect even as a hanger on within their ranks. Naruto was desperate enough for companionship to tolerate the abuse and play the fool just to be in their company.



Yes but again that was less because Naruto was a jinchuuriki and more because he behaved like the Class Clown. Behave like a 'Dobe' get treated like a 'Dobe'. Also I find it difficult at least for Choji and Shikamaru to actively 'mistreat' Naruto. It would require effort on their part.  Naruto started behaving better after becoming a gennin so he was treated better by his classmates.


----------



## Toph (Dec 16, 2016)

lol @ your signature indra


----------



## SoulFire (Dec 16, 2016)

Arthas said:


> The point I am trying to make is that we the readers were never truelly shown this 'prejiduice' against Naruto. There a few panels at best but there was practically no discrimination based on Naruto being a jinchuuriki once the manga started.
> 
> It takes the teeth out of the claim that Naruto strove to over come such treatment.
> 
> ...


There were disparaging comments from the villagers, such as the two women talking about Naruto as he sat in the swing outside of the Academy on the day of graduation. Villagers usually shushed one another with the warning that they weren't to speak about it. Parents simply warned their children to avoid him and that along with his disruptive and often rude behavior made him an outsider and target for mockery among his peers.

If one looks at the first part of the series the term 'Jinchuuriki' is never used. I don't think Kishi came up with it until part two--I also have my doubts that the origin of the Kyuubi (and the idea that it was more than a mass of hate filled chakra) was set until part two as well--in fact not until Kishi came up with Killer Bee and Eight Tails and gave them a relationship.  Writing long term Kishi often flew by the seat of his pants and plotted as he went.



> Yes but again that was less because Naruto was a jinchuuriki and more because he behaved like the Class Clown. Behave like a 'Dobe' get treated like a 'Dobe'. Also I find it difficult at least for Choji and Shikamaru to actively 'mistreat' Naruto. It would require effort on their part.  Naruto started behaving better after becoming a gennin so he was treated better by his classmates.


In early chapters of the manga right into the Chuunin exams we saw that Shikamaru, Kiba and the others treated Naruto with disdain and he did the same back at them. For the kids it was never about Naruto being the vessel of the Demon Fox as they knew nothing about that--it was a combination of parental influence and reaction to Naruto's behavior.

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Toph (Dec 16, 2016)

Lovely said:


> - Naruto's personality is at its best as an adult. His maturity and increased seriousness is refreshing.



You mean where he's a hypocrite, shallow, vain and an unethical douche who lets crooks like Orochimaru off the hook and dismisses his inhumane practices like human experiments?

Nah, fuck that. Naruto's one and _only_ good personality was in Part 1.


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 16, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> You mean where he's a hypocrite, *shallow, vain* and an unethical douche who lets crooks like Orochimaru off the hook and dismisses his inhumane practices like human experiments?
> 
> Nah, fuck that. Naruto's one and _only_ good personality was in Part 1.



The rest are a given (though I wouldn't go so far as to call him a douche) but when did adult Naruto ever display the traits in bold?


----------



## Toph (Dec 16, 2016)

VHS said:


> The rest are a given (though I wouldn't go so far as to call him a douche) but when did adult Naruto ever display the traits in bold?



In Gaiden and Boruto where he goes on a power trip and demands utmost respect. He doesn't like being called dad by Boruto, and demands his son and everyone across the village to refer to him as, "Lord Hokage," completely dismissing the fact that he called Hiruzen "old man" and Tsunade, "old hag" or "granny" when he was young.


----------



## Arthas (Dec 17, 2016)

SoulFire! said:


> There were disparaging comments from the villagers, such as the two women talking about Naruto as he sat in the swing outside of the Academy on the day of graduation. Villagers usually shushed one another with the warning that they weren't to speak about it. Parents simply warned their children to avoid him and that along with his disruptive and often rude behavior made him an outsider and target for mockery among his peers.
> 
> If one looks at the first part of the series the term 'Jinchuuriki' is never used. I don't think Kishi came up with it until part two--I also have my doubts that the origin of the Kyuubi (and the idea that it was more than a mass of hate filled chakra) was set until part two as well--in fact not until Kishi came up with Killer Bee and Eight Tails and gave them a relationship.  Writing long term Kishi often flew by the seat of his pants and plotted as he went.



Again those were pre-gennin and only at the very start of the manga. It would have been better if such treatment persisted during his gennin days at least so that readers could actually see it happening and thus feel more of an impact when Naruto overcame such prejudice. 

Also you could substitute "Jinchuuriki" for "Nine-tails Container". We don't see Naruto face a lot of prejudice for being the container of the nine tails during the actual manga.



SoulFire! said:


> In early chapters of the manga right into the Chuunin exams we saw that Shikamaru, Kiba and the others treated Naruto with disdain and he did the same back at them. For the kids it was never about Naruto being the vessel of the Demon Fox as they knew nothing about that--it was a combination of parental influence and reaction to Naruto's behavior.



Which again comes back to my point:

Naruto behaved like a class clown, he was treated like a class clown by his peers.

Naruto (post-gennin) became more mature and got results his peers treated him better.

He didn't exactly get treated badly by his peers because he was the container for the nine-tails fox.


----------



## COREYxYEROC (Dec 17, 2016)

So i am being serious and not joking i would have to say that Sakura is really a really good character and the things people say about her actually apply to Hinata. Hinata might be the most useless character in the whole story.


----------



## COREYxYEROC (Dec 17, 2016)

I dont know if its controversial in the community but turning Sasuke bad after he defeated Sasuke was the biggest load of shit ever. If sasuke returned to the leaf when he killed Itachi i think the story would have been so much better. i actually hated sasuke after the kage summit because i thought he was written terribly. he was dumber than naruto


----------



## Punished Kiba (Dec 17, 2016)

> The Naruto Franchise makes the anime/manga industry overall look bad (sorry, but it's True)


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 17, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> In Gaiden and Boruto where he goes on a power trip and demands utmost respect. He doesn't like being called dad by Boruto, and demands his son and everyone across the village to refer to him as, "Lord Hokage," completely dismissing the fact that he called Hiruzen "old man" and Tsunade, "old hag" or "granny" when he was young.



I just filed that under hypocrisy. I got the impression that he didn't do it out of self importance, but out of wanting to be impartial to Boruto. But yeah, it was incredibly fucking hypocritical and a tad shallow. Seemed bizarre even.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 17, 2016)

VHS said:


> I just filed that under hypocrisy. I got the impression that he didn't do it out of self importance, but out of wanting to be impartial to Boruto. But yeah, it was incredibly fucking hypocritical and a tad shallow. Seemed bizarre even.


Really? It seemed to me that the whole 'Hokage Naruto' things is just massively out-of-character. 

Just as much as Sasuke's actions seemed OOC to me, tbh. Gaiden was a giant clusterfuck, with regard to the characterizations, and the Boruto movie/manga seems to focus too much on the next gen to bother with giving proper closure for the old gen

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 17, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Really? It seemed to me that the whole 'Hokage Naruto' things is just massively out-of-character.
> 
> Just as much as Sasuke's actions seemed OOC to me, tbh. Gaiden was a giant clusterfuck, with regard to the characterizations, and the Boruto movie/manga seems to focus too much on the next gen to bother with giving proper closure for the old gen



It really was weird, but it's all thanks to Kishi heavily projecting his own issues as a father and parent onto them, despite it just not fitting. Right up their with paperwork being tiring for the likes of Naruto. Contrived shit for the sake of plot.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 17, 2016)

VHS said:


> It really was weird, but it's all thanks to Kishi heavily projecting his own issues as a father and parent onto them, despite it just not fitting. Right up their with paperwork being tiring for the likes of Naruto. Contrived shit for the sake of plot.


And yet none of the editors ever told him that it was bullshit.. then again, considering how SJ has been butchering stories it would be wrong to expect anything worthwhile from them. I mean, the way Naruto ended was bad, but look at Bleach


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 17, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> And yet none of the editors ever told him that it was bullshit.. then again, considering how SJ has been butchering stories it would be wrong to expect anything worthwhile from them. I mean, the way Naruto ended was bad, but look at Bleach



Seemed like he had more free reign, seeing as this was what he wanted to write according to him and it was the supposed grand finale. 

As for bleach, Kubo said he ended bleach on his own terms, hard to believe as that is. Plus while SJ might have given bleach the axe, Naruto had the opposite problem of being milked too much.


----------



## Serene Grace (Dec 17, 2016)

- Part 1 was ridiculously superior to part 2 in terms of plot, character development, etc.

- War arc wasn't all that bad

- Sakura is overrated


----------



## Toph (Dec 17, 2016)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> - Part 1 was ridiculously superior to part 2 in terms of plot, character development, etc.



_Controversial_ opinion, friendo. Not universal opinion.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Serene Grace (Dec 17, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> _Controversial_ opinion, friendo. Not universal opinion.


Lol, that's weird. Most of the people I've seen have said that Part 2 is better than part 1.


----------



## Suekay (Dec 17, 2016)

- Kakashi without the Sharingan isn't anywhere near as weak as many seem to think he is. For one he'll have more chakra now since the Sharingan isn't constantly draining it, and he can likely still make partial use of Chidori and Raikiri if conditions are right. 
- Naruto is a good dad as evidenced by all the family pictures around the house, but not a perfect one. The Boruto movie was their family going through a bad patch as virtually all families do.
- Boruto is a brat (but he has heaps of potential and a lot of room to improve and I hope he does). Sarada has far more valid reasons for acting up and yet she doesn't.
- If Obito had gifted his Sharingan to just about anyone else in Konoha, they would likely not have been able to learn to utilise it like Kakashi did.
- There's no way Sakura surpassed Tsunade during the war. Perhaps by the time of Boruto she has, but in sheer depth of knowledge and experience Tsunade still has her soundly beaten by the end of part 2.
- Hiruzen was the worst Hokage by far. Not the weakest, but the worst in terms of leadership abilities.
- Yamato deserved better
- I've always believed that Hinata never wanted to be a ninja in the first place and only became one as she felt it was her duty

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 17, 2016)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Lol, that's weird. Most of the people I've seen have said that Part 2 is better than part 1.


Over here? Seems doubtful


----------



## Corvida (Dec 17, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Really? It seemed to me that the whole 'Hokage Naruto' things is just massively out-of-character.



Love starved orphans


*Spoiler*: __ 






















> Just as much as Sasuke's actions seemed OOC to me, tbh. Gaiden was a giant clusterfuck, with regard to the characterizations,



Longed for  his dad´s aknowledgement to the point of burning himself training had his first family brutally massacred by idolized bro and his clan ethnic cleansed by gov orders.


*Spoiler*: __ 









 ç

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 17, 2016)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> Not here, other placesck.


Well, at best I'd consider the first half of shippuuden to be best- 'till the point where Nagato gets his TnJ and dies.
Or perhaps art-wise.
But the overall story and character development? Pt1 wins with ease.



Corvida said:


> Love starved orphans
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Exactly. Considering their pasts their 'developments' in Gaiden and the Borrito movie make so little sense it could be considered to be SP-tier filler trash

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Raiden (Dec 17, 2016)

1. It was a good idea to expand the characters and plot of part two. 
2. Sasori vs. Sakura was a waste of an arc since the series really didn't follow much with this story (characterization, pace).
3. While the new characters injected fresh energy into the series, it might have been a good idea to just continue with the old cast.


----------



## Zef (Dec 17, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Exactly. Considering their pasts their 'developments' in Gaiden and the Borrito movie make so little sense it could be considered to be SP-tier filler trash


That Gaiden trash is on Kishi. Even with the movie by itself you could conclude that maybe Sasuke goes, and comes every few months. That's what I thought at least when chapter 700 came out.

But nope, Kishi thinks it's better to have Sasuke absent for several years. Reason? Because it's "interesting".

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 4


----------



## Trojan (Dec 17, 2016)

Suekay said:


> - Kakashi without the Sharingan isn't anywhere near as weak as many seem to think he is. For one he'll have more chakra now since the Sharingan isn't constantly draining it, and he can likely still make partial use of Chidori and Raikiri if conditions are right.


I would say he is overrated tbh. Kakashi even with the Sharingan/MS was struggling with Zabuza during the war arc and needed help against him. It seems like he never improved.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Dec 17, 2016)

Hussain said:


> I would say he is overrated tbh. Kakashi even with the Sharingan/MS was struggling with Zabuza during the war arc and needed help against him. It seems like he never improved.


ok Obito


----------



## Harbour (Dec 17, 2016)

Naruto is absolutely shitty manga that leaves you with the bad taste on the tongue. Looking at it globally as a complete work you can easily see how the plot was overall idiotic and full of holes, morality and idea were wrong and if they were right then they were badly executed, and characters were mostly bad written and humiliated. Epilogue as well as the whole work leave you dried, cringing and facepalming. Thats Naruto guys.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 17, 2016)

Zef said:


> That Gaiden trash is on Kishi. Even with the movie by itself you could conclude that maybe Sasuke goes, and comes every few months. That's what I thought at least when chapter 700 came out.
> 
> But nope, Kishi thinks it's better to have Sasuke absent for several years. Reason? Because it's "interesting".


Just as it was "interesting" to make Naruto struggle with paperwork. Even if he can spawn more clones than anyone cares to count, Kishi thinks it is a good idea to make him struggle with a bunch of papers.

After the fiasco of the Shinobi World War, Gaiden was a chance for Kishi to prove that he hadn't totally lost it. Instead he ruined his two main characters...

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Arles Celes (Dec 17, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Just as it was "interesting" to make Naruto struggle with paperwork. Even if he can spawn more clones than anyone cares to count, Kishi thinks it is a good idea to make him struggle with a bunch of papers.



Or make him help old ladies buy groceries but not finding time to visit his own wife. 

His family is the least important matter likely due to him expecting his wife to be understanding and forgiving.

Sasuke's mission which requires him to walk through deserts and forests for a decade or so is just as hilarious if not more. Not sending his daughter even letters via hawk is pure lulz.

Kishi tried too hard to make them flawed human beings by making them fail with managing duties and family life.

Why marry at all if the family is just an afterthought? Aside of course from "making" babies to carry on the next generation of parallulz and what not. 

At least Naruto by the end of the movie seems to realize how hard to failed and promises to make it up to his son. Sasuke also ,now that the Kaguya matters are over, might stay in the village far more often. Unless he got addicted to those deserts and forests lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Patrick (Dec 18, 2016)

Kekkai Genkai should have stayed really rare. There were so many options to create creative fights with just the 5 basic elements, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. Having a couple of people here and there with unique abilities that nobody has a clue on how to beat once in a while is a great way to shake things up but suddenly almost all of the strong characters had to have a special ability one way or the other. It didn't feel special anymore after a while, just obligatory.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## 12771a (Dec 18, 2016)

juubito is underrated.
Hiruzen is the worst hokage 
Naruto looks super cool without his headband. Which is why I think his storm 2 hokage outfit was his best design. 

Obito being tobi was the best choice but of course it could've been handled better.


----------



## Klue (Dec 18, 2016)

Zef said:


> That Gaiden trash is on Kishi. Even with the movie by itself you could conclude that maybe Sasuke goes, and comes every few months. That's what I thought at least when chapter 700 came out.
> 
> But nope, Kishi thinks it's better to have Sasuke absent for several years. Reason? Because it's "interesting".



And I shamelessly look the other way, because that new "_Kaguya Space-Time_" reachin' jutsu is just so damn good.

  

But yeah, I agree.



Suekay said:


> - Kakashi without the Sharingan isn't anywhere near as weak as many seem to think he is. For one he'll have more chakra now since the Sharingan isn't constantly draining it, and he can likely still make partial use of Chidori and Raikiri if conditions are right.



Only a Kakashi fan.



He's strong enough to be Hokage. Let's throw him that bone and leave it at that.





Suekay said:


> If Obito had gifted his Sharingan to just about anyone else in Konoha, they would likely not have been able to learn to utilise it like Kakashi did.



If that character played the same role in the plot as Kakashi, then they would have.


----------



## Haruka Katana (Dec 18, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Just as it was "interesting" to make Naruto struggle with paperwork. Even if he can spawn more clones than anyone cares to count, Kishi thinks it is a good idea to make him struggle with a bunch of papers.
> 
> After the fiasco of the Shinobi World War, Gaiden was a chance for Kishi to prove that he hadn't totally lost it. Instead he ruined his two main characters...


I honestly saw Kishi as this extremely Bizzare human being.

Like you can predict the illogical shit he does because he would seriously do that shit

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Indra (Dec 19, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Just as it was "interesting" to make Naruto struggle with paperwork. Even if he can spawn more clones than anyone cares to count, Kishi thinks it is a good idea to make him struggle with a bunch of papers.
> 
> After the fiasco of the Shinobi World War, Gaiden was a chance for Kishi to prove that he hadn't totally lost it. Instead he ruined his two main characters...


I tend to look at Kishimoto differently because he seems like an author who enjoys to fuck his characters up for the hell of it. Maybe he's a masochist for the pen 

Because if you ask me the things he does just seems extremely unorthodox. Maybe his first editor was the key to Naruto all along.

I mean as soon as he left, Naruto started having heart attacks for Sasuke....


----------



## Trojan (Dec 19, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Just as it was "interesting" to make Naruto struggle with paperwork. Even if he can spawn more clones than anyone cares to count, Kishi thinks it is a good idea to make him struggle with a bunch of papers.
> 
> After the fiasco of the Shinobi World War, Gaiden was a chance for Kishi to prove that he hadn't totally lost it. Instead he ruined his two main characters...



On the bright side, we at least know that whether Kishi took "rest" or not, his story-telling wouldn't have changed.  

At least for those who were saying he needed to take a break and come back fresh. It's the same shit.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 19, 2016)

lndra said:


> I tend to look at Kishimoto differently because he seems like an author who enjoys to fuck his characters up for the hell of it. Maybe he's a masochist for the pen
> 
> Because if you ask me the things he does just seems extremely unorthodox. Maybe his first editor was the key to Naruto all along.
> 
> I mean as soon as he left, Naruto started having heart attacks for Sasuke....


Yeah... Kishi pretty much confirmed his own incompetence. Probably also why the Burrito spinoff is done by a dude who can barely draw instead of him. 

I really wonder what kind of shit Kishi's new manga is going to be. Will he go full yaoi this time?


----------



## Indra (Dec 19, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Yeah... Kishi pretty much confirmed his own incompetence. Probably also why the Burrito spinoff is done by a dude who can barely draw instead of him.
> 
> I really wonder what kind of shit Kishi's new manga is going to be. Will he go full yaoi this time?


Sigh, you're right. I wouldn't just put it past Kishimoto at this point, mostly anything Naruto related has been pretty crappy.

Whether it's Novels (I haven't read all of them to judge but... didn't like them that much), Movies (Either SP made or whomever, canon or non-canon), Anime itself, and what-ever else... It's all been severely lackluster. Do not get me wrong, some of these have had their moments of course.

But generally anything 'Naruto' related these days leaves you with a 'meh' and it's just ... boring. I expect no less with the Boruto Manga, just a quick cash grab to fill in the blanks of a series Kishimoto doesn't care to write anymore. The anime will be much worse I suspect

They probably fear that if they do not release a lot of Naruto content now, people will mostly just forget about it overtime and it'll die down. As one of Shueshia's main money making machines, we are in full throttle now.

No one cares about writing a deep or complex story filled with world building and development. They just want to fill their pockets and jab at old tropes to make you feel empty inside.

:/


----------



## fuff (Dec 19, 2016)

lndra said:


> I tend to look at Kishimoto differently because he seems like an author who enjoys to fuck his characters up for the hell of it. Maybe he's a masochist for the pen
> 
> Because if you ask me the things he does just seems extremely unorthodox. Maybe his first editor was the key to Naruto all along.
> 
> I mean as soon as he left, Naruto started having heart attacks for Sasuke....


around what chapter/event did his editor leave??

lol @ naruto having heart attacks for sasuke. naruto was pretty damn gay for sasuke


----------



## Indra (Dec 19, 2016)

fuff said:


> around what chapter/event did his editor leave??
> 
> lol @ naruto having heart attacks for sasuke. naruto was pretty damn gay for sasuke


I think Naruto's editor left after Sasuke v. Itachi, but, I suspect they had written drafts up until the Pain Arc. Mainly due to seeing Pain in bits and pieces before his first character/ability appearance in the Jiraiya battle.


----------



## fuff (Dec 19, 2016)

lndra said:


> I think Naruto's editor left after Sasuke v. Itachi, but, I suspect they had written drafts up until the Pain Arc. Mainly due to seeing Pain in bits and pieces before his first character/ability appearance in the Jiraiya battle.


why did he leave tho? was it ever revealed?


----------



## Haruka Katana (Dec 19, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> I really wonder what kind of shit Kishi's new manga is going to be. Will he go full yaoi this time?


It is going to be "shit you've never seen before."
Its basically what he says but in the end its going to be like the Apple product.

Different but stupid as fuck 

I hope i don't trigger some Apple users here


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 19, 2016)

fuff said:


> why did he leave tho? was it ever revealed?


iirc the original editor left prior the Invasion of Pein arc, yet he and Kishi already had the story wrapped up for that arc at the time. 

After the Pein arc shit went downhill quickly, though. The Kage Summit arc already had some of the most retarded moments of the story (Naruto hyperventilating, Sasuke going full retard, Sakura with her bogus confession and failed attempt at trying to stop Sasuke, Obito announcing his plan like a cliché villain, etc) and that was before the war even started 



lndra said:


> Sigh, you're right. I wouldn't just put it past Kishimoto at this point, mostly anything Naruto related has been pretty crappy.
> 
> Whether it's Novels (I haven't read all of them to judge but... didn't like them that much), Movies (Either SP made or whomever, canon or non-canon), Anime itself, and what-ever else... It's all been severely lackluster. Do not get me wrong, some of these have had their moments of course.
> 
> ...


Yeah... the story was sold out. Anything creative or new is shot down immediately, opting for the quick solution that makes the most money. In short: repetition of what has proven to work. Dragonball went down thanks to it too. Perhaps the Naruto franchise became too successful for its own good?

On the other end, we don't yet know what the new dude is planning with the original content for the Boruto manga. While the outlooks are bad, with the crappy art and the useless rehash, it might be... I dunno, something 'new'? Although the whole 'new villain threatens the world' things is already too cliché to be interesting. Naruto supposedly being dead was done before as well. Not to say that the new gen, aside from Sarada, simply fails to interest me. Well, Himawari was awesome in that oneshot.


----------



## Platypus (Dec 19, 2016)

*Spoiler*: _Probably off-topic_ 



@fuff @-Ziltoid- @lndra 

He's currently the editor-in-chief of Jump Sq., Jump's monthly shounen magazine.

On a side note, Kishimoto has been talking with Yahagi about his new series. And considering he doesn't want to do a weekly serialization anymore they'll probably publish his new manga in Jump Square.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Epyon (Dec 19, 2016)

Sasuke was the one that offered Naruto his food, the one that saved Naruto from the Demon Brothers, the one that initiated their joint tree walking training the one that wanted to work together against Haku and the one too openly acknowledge them as close too family in the Gaara fight. 
Naruto didn't truly appreciate Sasuke until he left. Same with the Third Hokage, same with Jiraiya. Shikamaru and the others never left him so they'll never get acknowledged as his true closest friends. Naruto is perfectly consistent.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## fuff (Dec 19, 2016)

Platypus said:


> *Spoiler*: _Probably off-topic_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


its almost the end of year and still no new info haha


----------



## Platypus (Dec 19, 2016)

fuff said:


> its almost the end of year and still no new info haha


"probably"

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## HunterxH (Dec 20, 2016)

- Naruto is one of the worst and most nonsensical characters on his own titular show. Might even be _the _worst.


----------



## Biothrang (Dec 20, 2016)

Gai should've died and Tobi shouldn't have been Obito


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 20, 2016)

HunterxH said:


> - Naruto is one of the worst and most nonsensical characters on his own titular show. Might even be _the _worst.


Naruto as a character has taken way too many L's where it counts(especially being a titular character), but i think calling him the worst is overlooking a few folks. But yeah his development and consistency left something to be desired. It's like kishi kept restarting/rewriting his character at various points in the story or something.


----------



## Dano (Dec 21, 2016)

Naruto is the prime example of protagonist centered morality. He fights for people he can relate and forgives them easily with no jail time nor anything. If anything i see Sasuke, even if disturbed as he is, doing one of the most hero-like moves at the beginning of the manga. He risked and almost gave his life for his teammate, even if he didn't know him nor particularly like him at that time. Naruto up to that point never risked his life for people he didn't know nor have a relationship with. He saved Iruka cause he was like a big-brother/father to him.

Itachi deserved to die. He's the prime example of how a zealot with "charismatic" personality behaves. Nothing more than that.



Epyon said:


> Sasuke was the one that offered Naruto his food, the one that saved Naruto from the Demon Brothers, the one that initiated their joint tree walking training the one that wanted to work together against Haku and the one too openly acknowledge them as close too family in the Gaara fight.
> Naruto didn't truly appreciate Sasuke until he left. Same with the Third Hokage, same with Jiraiya. Shikamaru and the others never left him so they'll never get acknowledged as his true closest friends. Naruto is perfectly consistent.



Lol, didn't think from that perspective xD.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Toph (Dec 21, 2016)

oMeGa1904 said:


> Naruto is the prime example of protagonist centered morality. He fights for people he can relate and forgives them easily with no jail time nor anything. If anything i see Sasuke, even if disturbed as he is, doing one of the most hero-like moves at the beginning of the manga. He risked and almost gave his life for his teammate, even if he didn't know him nor particularly like him at that time. Naruto up to that point never risked his life for people he didn't know nor have a relationship with. He saved Iruka cause he was like a big-brother/father to him.



This. People give Sasuke so much shit for being a batshit insane edgelord supreme, but quite frankly, I found him more heroic than Naruto himself despite committing crimes. Aside for the following reasons you've listed, Sasuke killed international criminals like Deidara and Itachi, he beat crooks like Orochimaru, called out his inhumane practices and freed prisoners. In contrast, Naruto did nothing to stop Orochimaru and for all I care, turned a blind eye to inhumane practices like human experiments and trafficking. He wasn't the slightest bit outraged that this twisted friend experimented on babies, he was outraged with whether or not Sasuke cheated on Sakura. When Naruto judges a person, he puts whatever he relates to them on a superficial level above all else, even basic morals and human integrity. He's one of the most conceited and narcissistic characters in this series, which the author hides under the disguise of a sunshine goofball.



> Itachi deserved to die. He's the prime example of how a zealot with "charismatic" personality behaves. Nothing more than that.



This too, Itachi was just another blind Konoha idiot who thought the collective interest of his stupid village was more important than his loved ones. He's just a peace at all cost extremist hidden under the face of a charismatic man. Just about everything with Itachi is the reason why I hate this series, Kishimoto tried to portray family loyalty as a bad thing, but absolute loyalty to the village as the highest virtue. It makes no sense, they're both dogmatic, and often used by the leadership as propaganda tool to demand the plebeians to make sacrifice for the state. As it's portrayed in the manga, Konoha looked way worse than the clan loving people, Madara never persecuted and massacred his own clan, he was never a bad guy until Tobirama, being the douchebag he is, started the policy to isolate and alienate the Uchiha for no other reason but a mere grudge that has never left since childhood.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 22, 2016)

people still whining about Oro's "experiment" when that shit happened during Hiruzen's time, not Naruto's and before he was even born.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 22, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> This. People give Sasuke so much shit for being a batshit insane edgelord supreme, but quite frankly, I found him more heroic than Naruto himself despite committing crimes. Aside for the following reasons you've listed, Sasuke killed international criminals like Deidara and Itachi, he beat crooks like Orochimaru, called out his inhumane practices and freed prisoners. In contrast, Naruto did nothing to stop Orochimaru and for all I care, turned a blind eye to inhumane practices like human experiments and trafficking. He wasn't the slightest bit outraged that this twisted friend experimented on babies, he was outraged with whether or not Sasuke cheated on Sakura. When Naruto judges a person, he puts whatever he relates to them on a superficial level above all else, even basic morals and human integrity. He's one of the most conceited and narcissistic characters in this series, which the author hides under the disguise of a sunshine goofball.
> 
> 
> 
> This too, Itachi was just another blind Konoha idiot who thought the collective interest of his stupid village was more important than his loved ones. He's just a peace at all cost extremist hidden under the face of a charismatic man. Just about everything with Itachi is the reason why I hate this series, Kishimoto tried to portray family loyalty as a bad thing, but absolute loyalty to the village as the highest virtue. It makes no sense, they're both dogmatic, and often used by the leadership as propaganda tool to demand the plebeians to make sacrifice for the state. As it's portrayed in the manga, Konoha looked way worse than the clan loving people, Madara never persecuted and massacred his own clan, he was never a bad guy until Tobirama, being the douchebag he is, started the policy to isolate and alienate the Uchiha for no other reason but a mere grudge that has never left since childhood.



It's strange that you of all people keep bitching about this, and the same time wank Hashirama to death. 

correct me if I am mistaken, but did not Hashirama let Asspulldara live countless times?


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 22, 2016)

Hussain said:


> It's strange that you of all people keep bitching about this, and the same time wank Hashirama to death.
> 
> correct me if I am mistaken, but did not Hashirama let Asspulldara live countless times?


Hashirama straight up killed Madara or so he believed and outright said he'd do the same to anyone who threatens the peace if it's necessary. How on earth is that comparable?


----------



## Trojan (Dec 22, 2016)

VHS said:


> Hashirama straight up killed Madara or so he believed and outright said he'd do the same to anyone who threatens the peace if it's necessary. How on earth is that comparable?


burden me, but how many years did it take Hashirama to finally stab Asspulldara?


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 22, 2016)

Hussain said:


> burden me, but how many years did it take Hashirama to finally stab Asspulldara?



At least he fucking did it.

Not to mention every encounter before that was during the warring states era where no side was better than the other and before Madara was malicious. It's not like he was slaughtering men, women, and children en masse like Orochimaru. Hashirama stopped him when he actually got to that point.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 22, 2016)

VHS said:


> At least he fucking did it.
> 
> Not to mention every encounter before that was during the warring states era where no side was better than the other and before Madara was malicious. It's not like he was slaughtering men, women, and children en masse like Orochimaru. Hashirama stopped him when he actually got to that point.



it sure took him way longer than Naruto did, and Naruto actually won Sasuke over where Hashirama failed. 

Except Asspulldara did kill several Senju. 
Either way, Hashirama took much longer and failed. Naruto too much less and succeed. The different is clear. 

Heck, at least 3 years of those 4 years it took Naruto to bring Sasuke back was
A) 2 and a half of them he was with Jiraiya, not actually looking for Sasuke.
B) The other half a year or so, Sasuke was not really doing anything "wrong" or "outrageous" as people here mentioned
He killed Deidara, itachi, and attacked Oro, so he was not a "criminal" per se. 

The only reason this whole Naruto & Sasuke deal seems the way it does is because we saw it in details. Where Hashirama & Asspulldara
were summarized in like 1-4 chapters at most. However, when you want to measure it, it took Hashirama MUCH more than Naruto.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 22, 2016)

If Naruto actually had help people accountable for the shit they did, he wouldn't have wanted to be Hokage but joined Sasuke in torching Konoha to the ground 

Seriously though, if Kishi had been serious, at least the likes of Sasuke, Kabuto, or Orochimaru should be punished for their wrongdoings. Instead he gives the reader the idea that murder is right, as long as you do it because you have some kind of dream. The whole ninjajezus thing was taken wayyy too far, until it seemed like the whole story revolved around Naruto and his mindset. Pt1 and early pt2 were way better, in that contrast. 

Then again, the whole naive good guy trope from shonen was too powerful for Kishi to deviate from. Apparently people like their MC to be a Goku-esque retard


----------



## Toph (Dec 22, 2016)

Hussain said:


> people still whining about Oro's "experiment" when that shit happened during Hiruzen's time, not Naruto's and before he was even born.



No. Unlike Naruto, Hiruzen was called out for being an ineffectual, feeble-willed and indecisive leader by the narratives, he actively chastised himself of his foolishness of letting Orochimaru live. He's one of the few consistent characters in this series and a very believable failure leader. He let Orochimaru conduct his inhumane practices, and turned a blind eye to it. He only dealt with Orochimaru once his experiments became known across the village. When Orochimaru defected Konoha, Hiruzen never chased him. This ultimately bit him in the ass during the Chunin Exams arc when Orochimaru assaulted Hiruzen and orchestrated an invasion against Konoha and killed him. This wouldn't have happened if Hiruzen captured Orochimaru and either put him in jail or outright killed him.

Naruto is the main protagonist, the Hokage and the Child of Prophecy, the person Minato, Jiraiya, Nagato and Konan all put their faiths in, he's the character who should bring a resolution to Orochimaru's schemes, not Hiruzen, and he didn't. He became an ineffectual just like Hiruzen and turned a blind eye to his illegal practices. He's an outright failure of a hero unlike Sasuke who could bring this twisted friend to his place.



> It's strange that you of all people keep bitching about this, and the same time wank Hashirama to death.
> 
> correct me if I am mistaken, but did not Hashirama let Asspulldara live countless times?



You mean back in the Warring States Period? Madara was not unstable for one, and neither the Senju or Uchiha were good and bad, just like in any other war. Treating any major conflict as good versus evil is dire oversimplification, stop thinking that things are black and white. Anyhow, Madara, like Hashirama, had good intentions. Thus, Hashirama wanted to end the war between his clan and Madara's with a truce, and even then, their alliance didn't magically happened because they had a Romeo-Juliet bromance unlike Naruto and Sasuke. The Senju had to beat the Uchiha into a corner first and it took a very public display of true goodwill and resolve from Hashirama to convince Madara.

If you're talking about their confrontation in the Final Valley, Hashirama outright killed Madara when he became unstable and started to disturb peace, lol.


----------



## Dano (Dec 22, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> No. Unlike Naruto, Hiruzen was called out for being an ineffectual, feeble-willed and indecisive leader by the narratives, he actively chastised himself of his foolishness of letting Orochimaru live. He's one of the few consistent characters in this series and a very believable failure leader. He let Orochimaru conduct his inhumane practices, and turned a blind eye to it. He only dealt with Orochimaru once his experiments became known across the village. When Orochimaru defected Konoha, Hiruzen never chased him. This ultimately bit him in the ass during the Chunin Exams arc when Orochimaru assaulted Hiruzen and orchestrated an invasion against Konoha and killed him. This wouldn't have happened if Hiruzen captured Orochimaru and either put him in jail or outright killed him.



Even if we don't know about how much did Hiruzen turn a blind on Orochimaru's experiment. To me it wasn't the worst action from his side in this incident. Sure it's wrong, but we don't know if he genuinely didn't know (which i doubt), nor how much were these rumors running around before he took action. However him, even witnessing Orochimaru's experiments, he actively let him kill/maim his team before he took off. That's not even what Naruto would have done. Him letting his known soldiers, under his care, maimed or killed by his friend/student. At least that's not what i think he'd have done.


----------



## LazyWaka (Dec 22, 2016)

I think Himawari honestly has more potential then Boruto if only because she doesn't come off as just a hybrid of Naruto and Sasukes characters.


----------



## Parallaxis (Dec 22, 2016)

Funny how if people discarded their Itachi hate they would realize:

> He got hit by Muki Tensei because he chose to protect Sasuke
> He got bisected because he needed to implant a physical sensation for Izanami
> He wanted to test out Kabuto's abilities, since he had Edo regeneration. All of the 4 hokage did this as well


----------



## C-Moon (Dec 22, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Then again, the whole naive good guy trope from shonen was too powerful for Kishi to deviate from. Apparently people like their MC to be a Goku-esque retard


That was one of Kishi's bigger mistakes: he made Naruto and Sasuke into annoying extremes. Sasuke became an edgelord straight out of a teen's fantasy novel, and Naruto went way too far into goody-goody territory.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Dec 22, 2016)

Sasuke>Naruto from a writing/character standpoint
Itachi was kind of a moron
Might Gai should have died when he opened the 8th gate, naruto ruined Gais entire character and took all the glory and nobility out of his sacrifice from him with his asspull healing power
Sasuke was superior to naruto in power for over half of the entire series, well, thats straight up mathematical fact honestly, look it up, he catches sasuke for the first time ever when he attains SM, which is chapter 400 ish? Theres only 700 total chapters, 50% of 700 = 350...Naruto wasnt shit to sasuke till post 400...ergo...
Wayyyy more character death should have happened in the war, mads should have killed the gokage, gai should have died, shikamaru or someone on his team should have died, same with kibas team, if all of team 7 died thered be riots but i bet itd be half interesting, *at the very least no team should have made it through unscathed imo*
There is no good pairing in the entire manga, ShikamaruxTemari is the only one that doesnt feel incredibly forced, the rest all suck, but* SasukexSakura is revolting and by far the worst*
Tsunade totes loved Jman, and thatd be one of the only good pairings in the series if it was canon.
Adult Sasuke=Adult Naruto in power
*I Cant Stand Shikamaru*
I Cant Stand Orochimaru
I Cant Stand Sakura
*WHY THE ACTUAL FUCK IS IRUKA IN BASICALLY EVERY TOP 10 CHARACTER POLL??? LOOK IT UP IM NOT KIDDING HE IS THERE EVERY DAMN TIME AND IT INFURIATES ME*
Sarada is one of the only decent female characters in the entire manga and she is the only hope of the next gen
Wind>Lightning makes no sense to me, *Earth>Lightning would make more sense, i mean, has kishi ever even played pokemon??? Ground(earth) is legit IMMUNE to Electric(lightning)*
Hiruzen is one of the worst kages from any village ever, in both power and politics.
Hashirama being stronger than Mads makes no sense taking into account the whole Indra/Ashra reincarnation thing, the Indra reincarnation is supposed to be insanely gifted and powerful, capable of doing everything on their own from an early age with no help from others, while the ashura reincarnation is supposed to be a weak moron who compensates with nakama power and *eventually equals Indra in ability*. Yet *Hashi was better than Mads from day one* and was a genius in his own right, just weird to me.
Mads seemed like a bigger threat than kaguya (not saying he was more powerful, just scarier i guess) he was also wayyy better from a written standpoint
Kaguya could have been cool if she was handled better tho
Tobi (masked Man) was a badass mofo until the second the mask came off, then he was one of the worst things ever. Literally any character aside from obito would have been better imo, saw theories back in the day that Tobi= Izuna, or Shisui, or The freaking Ramen Guy, anything was better than obito.
Naruto is a shit parent with no excuses, he has the tools to literally spend every waking hour with his family and never work a second of his life thanks to shadow clones, yet he does the exact opposite and alienates himself from his family as a result...pure parenting genius
I think a Minato/Kushina Shinden, about their genin days and minatos training with Jman, and their chunin exams, and minatos missions with obito/kakashi/rin would be an awesome mini series. We could see how they fell in love, who the hell the other 2 genin on minatos team were, we could see him invent rasengan, we could see where the actual F he picked FTG up, we could see him bitchify the raikage and killer bee a dozen times, and have it end with narutos birth.
A Madara Vs Hashirama 40 ish minute OVA detailing their final battle, with next to no talking or flashback BS, just 40 minutes of combat, would be badass imo.
Best part of the series was from P1 Chunin Exams to FKS, after that in declined imo, the war had some high points, but was overall kinda sub par.

Reactions: Like 5 | Disagree 2


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 22, 2016)

Hussain said:


> it sure took him way longer than Naruto did, and Naruto actually won Sasuke over where Hashirama failed.
> 
> Except Asspulldara did kill several Senju.


Hashirama did win over Madara how ever short lived, and did not leave him to his own devices but killed him when that turned south.

The senju likewise killed several Uchiha, including his brother. They were at war and no side was more innocent than the other, and the entire point of their truce and Hashirama sparing him was because wantonly killing each other got them nowhere.

He ultimately did what was necessary when it came down to it, so this is just pointless deflection.



> Either way, Hashirama took much longer and failed. Naruto too much less and succeed. The different is clear.
> 
> Heck, at least 3 years of those 4 years it took Naruto to bring Sasuke back was
> A) 2 and a half of them he was with Jiraiya, not actually looking for Sasuke.
> ...



I've no idea what you're talking about. When Madara defected Hashirama dealt with him immediately, and battles before that are irrelevant as they were part of the warring states era, and joining with Madara _ended_ that tumultuous time.

That, and Madara's greatest crime at that point was attempting to attack Konoha and he was swiftly dealt with before actually did any damage. Orochimaru on the other hand has a slew of atrocities under his belt and is still free, and in fact continuing his experiments.


PhantomSage said:


> Funny how if people discarded their Itachi hate they would realize:
> 
> > He got hit by Muki Tensei because he chose to protect Sasuke
> > He got bisected because he needed to implant a physical sensation for Izanami
> > He wanted to test out Kabuto's abilities, since he had Edo regeneration. All of the 4 hokage did this as well



He got hit by Muki Tensei because he defended Sasuke when it wasn't even aimed for him, and getting slashed in half wasn't part of the Izanami keikaku since getting stabbed/slashing off Kabuto's horn was the sensation used as it's base, and getting chopped in half wasn't one of the sensations used for the loop.

I like Itachi btw.


----------



## Parallaxis (Dec 22, 2016)

VHS said:


> Hashirama did win over Madara how ever short lived, and did not leave him to his own devices but killed him when that turned south.
> 
> The senju likewise killed several Uchiha, including his brother. They were at war and no side was more innocent than the other, and the entire point of their truce and Hashirama sparing him was because wantonly killing each other got them nowhere.
> 
> ...


Oh. I recall it being used as a sensation.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 23, 2016)

C-Moon said:


> That was one of Kishi's bigger mistakes: he made Naruto and Sasuke into annoying extremes. Sasuke became an edgelord straight out of a teen's fantasy novel, and Naruto went way too far into goody-goody territory.


Some subtlety wouldn't have hurt the story, I agree  

It was particularly painful in the Kage Summit Arc, imho. Sasuke going full retard. Naruto begging, crying, and hyperventilating. Sakura doing whatever she thought she was doing. Kakashi just standing there and doing nothing to change anything- so qualified to be Hokage, that man. Main characters... 

Controversial opinion: the manga should've ended after the Pein Arc was done. Sasuke should've acknowledged his brother's wishes, and at least made his sacrifice worth a shit. And Naruto should've had a bloody answer to the issues which Nagato brought up about the bad side of the shinobi world. The end.


----------



## Arthas (Dec 23, 2016)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Some subtlety wouldn't have hurt the story, I agree
> 
> It was particularly painful in the Kage Summit Arc, imho. Sasuke going full retard. Naruto begging, crying, and hyperventilating. Sakura doing whatever she thought she was doing. Kakashi just standing there and doing nothing to change anything- so qualified to be Hokage, that man. Main characters...
> 
> Controversial opinion: the manga should've ended after the Pein Arc was done. *Sasuke should've acknowledged his brother's wishes, and at least made his sacrifice worth a shit.* And Naruto should've had a bloody answer to the issues which Nagato brought up about the bad side of the shinobi world. The end.




I agree with everything of your post except this.

One of my controversial opinions is that I believe Sasuke should have stopped idolizing Itachi way back and have a different motivation then *just *his brother.

Seriously I can buy Sasuke loving his brother and even sympathizing with him but at the end of the day the guy did kill all of Sasuke's clan and family, tried to deceive him and in case that failed had a backup plan where he arranged Sasuke to be mind-controlled. 

Why would any sibling want to respect the wishes of a brother like that? or give two hoots about his 'sacrifice' ? I would have had Sasuke go after the Elders not just  for Itachi but also his parents / clan (Sasuke never bothers to mention them after the Itachi reveal).

The way it is right now, every bad thing you can say about Naruto chasing and forgiving Sasuke you could say about Sasuke and Itachi.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


----------



## Haruka Katana (Dec 23, 2016)

My controversial opinion: since part 2, everytime Naruto is present, Kishi had to make people around him into retards so he can make Naruto look good, aka jesusruto.



WorldsStrongest said:


> WHY THE ACTUAL FUCK IS IRUKA IN BASICALLY EVERY TOP 10 CHARACTER POLL??? LOOK IT UP IM NOT KIDDING HE IS THERE EVERY DAMN TIME AND IT INFURIATES ME


Because of Fujoshits.

Kakairu is one of the most popular yaoi pairing in Naruto.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Dec 23, 2016)

Arthas said:


> I agree with everything of your post except this.
> 
> One of my controversial opinions is that I believe Sasuke should have stopped idolizing Itachi way back and have a different motivation then *just *his brother.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the problem is that Itachi is written horribly. He's too inconsistent. If he had been evil, Kishi should've let him stay evil. If he had been good, Kishi shouldn't have let Itachi do the shit he did to Sasuke. Or at the very least not let him take things _that_ far. While a bit of hatred was good- it gave Sasuke a purpose for his hatred, a reason to grow- things went too far. I bet Itachi didn't expect Sasuke to go to Orochimaru, but then again... Itachi was the one who mindraped Sasuke for no good reason. While Naruto's rapid growth was also a reason for Sasuke to doubt himself, I think it was Itachi who pushed him over the edge. 

That said, Itachi knew the Uchiha clan was a lost cause. Had he not ended them, they would've tried a coup, which would likely have led to a civil war (which in turn invited the other nations to exploit Konoha's weakened state, causing a world war). It would've been better if Itachi had used that second Tsukuyomi on Sasuke as a way to make Sasuke see that the Uchiha had dug their own graves, leaving Itachi with only one way out to rescue Sasuke. 

Of course... that is under the presumption that Kishimoto even knew that Itachi was a good guy during pt1, rather than just changing his mind about the character in the middle of the story


----------



## Dano (Dec 23, 2016)

Arthas said:


> I agree with everything of your post except this.
> 
> One of my controversial opinions is that I believe Sasuke should have stopped idolizing Itachi way back and have a different motivation then *just *his brother.
> 
> ...



This.

Sasuke returning to Konoha after revelation is plain dumb. Sasuke could have just go after the elders, and if anyone opposes then he would cut him down. Making him the antagonist, Or just say fuck it and move to another village. Altho that'd be just boring. Sasuke praising Itachi is what made him short-sighed at the end.


----------



## Klue (Dec 23, 2016)

Momoshiki's new Ogre design looks amazing, but the recap battle was shit. 

Punching/Kicking the Kages aside, nothing new came from it. 



-Ziltoid- said:


> Controversial opinion: the manga should've ended after the Pein Arc was done.



Shit opinion.

Leaves too much on the table: Sasuke, Obito, Madara, and Danzou. Author spent a great deal of time hinting at major events involving those four. I admit, three out of four being Uchiha is a bit more than the a reader can handle. So it's pretty obvious a number of us hate how things turned out, but we can't ignore them. Bad enough he hasn't explained shit about the Otsutsuki.

Seriously, WTF Kishi?



If anything, there should have been a long stretch of manga, where the author takes his time exploring the other villages and their history. Doing this prior to the Masked Man's war was absolutely necessary.



Arthas said:


> Sasuke never bothers to mention them after the Itachi reveal



Bat shit crazy laugh moment forgotten.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## MethX (Dec 23, 2016)

Klue said:


> Momoshiki's new Ogre design looks amazing, but the recap battle was shit.
> 
> Punching/Kicking the Kages aside, nothing new came from it.
> 
> ...



Oh, true dat. Tharr chapter be feeling a lil more forced than previously.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Dec 23, 2016)

Some more i thought of...

Makes no sense to me that during the warring states era the senju were=the uchiha, excluding mads, izuna, hashi and tobirama, *how the hell is senju fodder>Uchiha fodder?* I mean, no senju aside from hashi has mokuton, so its essentially a bunch of randoms with good endurance Vs a bunch of randoms with sharingan and also good endurance...how does that mean they equals?
*What the actual hell happened to all of the senju clan? Am i drawing a blank or did kishi legit not explain that shit???*
There are very few legitimately well written females in this manga and it kinda peeves me. I can only think of 2 who were good from start to finish, and thats Temari and Tsunade, the rest are sub par on their best day. *Fingers crossed for sarada tho.*
Kakuzu/Hidan were badass and should have lived much further into the series and expanded on their abilities.
Mokuton, while i agree is insanely powerful, is a really dumb ability with a stupid premise.
*Nejis Viewpoint on Destiny was 110% true, i mean, Naruto turned out to be a child of prophecy ffs, so much for hard work overcoming genius, naruto was a legit descendant of his verse's version of jesus...*
Sasuke should have been a way more important character in The Last.
I cant stand Sai
I cant stand Kabuto
Pain should have legit killed Naruto, he was wayyyy out of narutos league, theres no other way to describe narutos victory there aside from a massive case of LOLPLOT. If kishi wanted that fight to happen, it should have happened way later after naruto got way more powerful.
*Orochimaru and Kabuto should have been burned at the fucking stake for what they did, or at least locked up and throw away the key, instead they got a hokage seal of approval from kakashi/naruto...and people say sasuke made questionable decisions...*
The best Konoha team *by far* was Team 10, despite how much i hate shikamaru, the team had the best chemistry and were really well written as a whole.
Itachi was never meant to be a good guy until well into part 2, that was a huge retcon from kishi.
Madara is an amazing villain.
Minato should have been around way more somehow, he was awesome, *same with kushina.*
*Narutos Parents were way better written and way cooler than he was.*
Kakashi getting both Sharingan in the kaguya fight was one of the most disgusting things in this manga.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Platypus (Dec 23, 2016)

↑ Kishimoto intended to make Itachi a "good guy" from the moment he was formally introduced in the manga. His execution just sucked.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Trojan (Dec 23, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> *how the hell is senju fodder>Uchiha fodder?*


IIRC, according to part 1, getting the sharingan was also unique and not everyone from the clan can get it. 
Of course, that might have been retconned for the Izanagi/Izanami bullshit. I dunno.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Dec 23, 2016)

Hussain said:


> IIRC, according to part 1, getting the sharingan was also unique and not everyone from the clan can get it.
> Of course, that might have been retconned for the Izanagi/Izanami bullshit. I dunno.


Exactly, that whole thing is wonky


----------



## Toph (Dec 23, 2016)

oMeGa1904 said:


> Even if we don't know about how much did Hiruzen turn a blind on Orochimaru's experiment. To me it wasn't the worst action from his side in this incident. Sure it's wrong, but we don't know if he genuinely didn't know (which i doubt), nor how much were these rumors running around before he took action. However him, even witnessing Orochimaru's experiments, he actively let him kill/maim his team before he took off. That's not even what Naruto would have done. Him letting his known soldiers, under his care, maimed or killed by his friend/student. At least that's not what i think he'd have done.



Yeah, Hiruzen turning a blind eye to Orochimaru's experiments is far from being his worst action. I'd say his worst offender was handling the Uchiha massacre. He just sat on his ass all day until shit hit the fan. He let the Uchiha's dissatisfaction of being alienated and discriminated escalate to an upcoming coup. He never did anything to explain to the public why the Uchiha were not behind the Nine-Tails attack, leading the community to spread hearsay about them and intensifying the tension between the Uchiha and Konoha.

When he found out about the Uchiha planning a coup, he failed to respond timely and allowed Danzo to do as he pleased and enabled him to solve this matter with severe brutality against the Uchiha behind his back. Even after the Uchiha were annihilated, he let Danzo remain in power rather than putting his shady ass in prison because it'd upset him. He's a wishy-washy and incompetent leader who let Danzo walk over him.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 23, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> *how the hell is senju fodder>Uchiha fodder?* I mean, no senju aside from hashi has mokuton, so its essentially a bunch of randoms with good endurance Vs a bunch of randoms with sharingan and also good endurance...how does that mean they equals


Do not try to quantify fodder. They are no names who all have the same purpose of being fill ins, no matter where they come from.


----------



## Dano (Dec 23, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> Yeah, Hiruzen turning a blind eye to Orochimaru's experiments is far from being his worst action. I'd say his worst offender was handling the Uchiha massacre. He just sat on his ass all day until shit hit the fan. He let the Uchiha's dissatisfaction of being alienated and discriminated escalate to an upcoming coup. He never did anything to explain to the public why the Uchiha were not behind the Nine-Tails attack, leading the community to spread hearsay about them and intensifying the tension between the Uchiha and Konoha.
> 
> When he found out about the Uchiha planning a coup, he failed to respond timely and allowed Danzo to do as he pleased and enabled him to solve this matter with severe brutality against the Uchiha behind his back. Even after the Uchiha were annihilated, he let Danzo remain in power rather than putting his shady ass in prison because it'd upset him. He's a wishy-washy and incompetent leader who let Danzo walk over him.



Well, i was talking only on that incident in allowing Orochimaru to leave, damaging/killing his team under his care is worse that if he knew or not about the rumors imo. However the worse thing in Hiruzen's rule was indeed the Uchiha genocide fiasco. It paints him as a incompetent, willful ignorant, lip service hypocrite wishy washy leader. To add more salt to the wound, he let Root has his practices under Danzo. And we know Root practices were probably even as inhumane as Bloody Mist if  (anime also seems to confirm this). Considering Sai was a minor, Hiruzen failed to his so-called ideals of 'protection for the new generation' lip service with the other Uchiha children conveniently ambiguously presented in the manga to not shit on his character more. It effectively makes  from worst village to best, Bloody Mist > Konoha >>>> any other village, by acts presented in the manga. Conveniently pushed all bad deeds to Danzo when Hiruzen was the Hokage and could have acted or investigated such practices. He chose to be willful ignorant in his own bubble, not dealing with complicated stuff.


----------



## Jinnobi (Dec 26, 2016)

- Itachi is the best character in the series. He's requires a mature mindset to analyze his motivations and actions. He's ends up the most loving character in the series, saves basically everyone from impeding doom, and ultimately accomplishes his missions extremely well. A deep and poignant character that I remember long after the manga ended and the rest of the cast became insignificant.

- Itachi's full power was never explored. His maximum potential outstripped pretty much everyone, but due to plot and his gentle nature, we've never gotten a chance to see "bloodlusted" Itachi. With the Rinnegan and a new set of eyes, he'd tear through the competition. Besides, everyone had either deep respect or outright fear of Itachi, and they've never seen the potential that both Zetsu and Itachi himself proclaimed. Then factor in the hype other characters gushed throughout the series. We saw the top of the iceberg, and even that was deeply impressive. It's just that some people don't want to see it because they don't like Itachi for "reasons."

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 4 | Dislike 6


----------



## MasterORB (Dec 27, 2016)

Here's my personal opinion:


I think that Sasuke is more of a main character than Naruto, he even became a child of prophecy without anybody tell him;
The Boruto and some of they companions are not really that interesting besides Sarada and Mitsuki and Gaara kids;
Power levels in this manga doesn't mean shit;
Future Boruto is a ripoff o Naruto/Sasuke/Itachi/Kakashi and I don't like it;
Both Boruto the movie and The Last, Suck has movies;
The anime writers suck and don't understand the characters;
The games aren't that good to begin with are just ok;
90% of this fanbase sucks;
This story is not about a underdog;
I find Hinata overrated;
I probably will post some more for now this it.

Reactions: Like 4 | Dislike 3


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 27, 2016)

MasterORB said:


> The games aren't that good to begin with are just ok;


The games are so boring and repetitive. How do people play it i will never know. It's like they have been reselling the same game since generations. It doesn't really matter what characters you choose, no gameplay that actually makes you think or strive for anything, lazy jutsu options for any character who ain't close to a main.

I can't believe they took out the ultimate jutsu movie thing. Look at their special(some where decent) was probably the only thing good about the game. The road to boruto DLC is so underwhelming lol they are juicing the fans by rehashing storm 4 


> 90% of this fanbase sucks;





> I find Hinata overrated


Character wise right? I'd have to agree.


----------



## Aduro (Dec 27, 2016)

The biggest reason the War Arc dragged on wasn't pacing, prophecies or power levels. Its that Naruto's character barely needed developed as he was pretty much finished just was entering the war. And if nothing happens to develop a character's personality, nothing important happens to them at all. In fact Naruto and Sasuke were almost ready at the end of the Land of Iron Arc.
The prophecies sucked, but their importance to the characters and themes is massively overrated in the fanbase.
Shikamaru's revenge on Hidan was vastly different to Sasuke's because Shikamaru didn't screw over his teammates or his village to do it.
A lot of the minor characters popularity comes from filler arcs (especially Squad 8's and Tenten's).
The Edos would have been a lot more dramatic if they'd stayed as weapons with all the power and skills of the living shinobi but a total lack of humanity. It would have made them more creepy and infuriated the loved ones the edos had left behind. The awesomeness of Trollkage was not worth undercutting the importance of death or the sappiness of Gaara's true backstory.
Gaara's TNJ was the most unrealistic in the manga. Him going from psycho killer to beloved world leader so suddenly was a load of crap, especially since Kishi gave him enough panel time to give less jarring character development.
Mei Temuri was best waifu before the epilogue. Nice boobs + low self esteem when it comes to romance + not being under 18 = hot.

Also, kind of a big one.
'Gaining power from hard work' isn't quite the theme that was important. Its more like 'Gaining power from the right places'. Characters who get power from those who want to use them as weapons or stepping stones don't get what they want even if they get stronger. Characters who get power from those who truly want to look out for their best interests succeed.


Oh, not sure about how unpopular this one is, but I think Konohamaru is an incredibly lame character and colossal waste of time. And that Sai should have been Boruto and Sarade's sensei instead because it would show that he could form relationships with a team and he couldn't possibly do a crappier job training Boruto than Konohamaru did.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Klue (Dec 27, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Some more i thought of...
> 
> Makes no sense to me that during the warring states era the senju were=the uchiha, excluding mads, izuna, hashi and tobirama, *how the hell is senju fodder>Uchiha fodder?* I mean, no senju aside from hashi has mokuton, so its essentially a bunch of randoms with good endurance Vs a bunch of randoms with sharingan and also good endurance...how does that mean they equals?




*Spoiler*: __ 





​


​
They have this power, equal to the Sharingan, that we know nothing about.


----------



## Jinnobi (Dec 27, 2016)

Four dislikes, four disagrees... For a thread asking for controversial opinions, looks like I'm winning.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Muah (Dec 27, 2016)

Kakashi sucks
Jiriya could have taken itachi and kisame back in part 1.
Jiriya was in the top five of the world.
 Lee and neji were nerfed and should have been kage level by the end war.


----------



## Aduro (Dec 27, 2016)

Klue said:


> They have this power, equal to the Sharingan, that we know nothing about.


It seemed pretty straightforward to me, they had a fuckload of chakra. Even without mokuton they probably had powerful earth or water ninjutsu like Tobirama.


----------



## WorldsStrongest (Dec 27, 2016)

Aduro said:


> It seemed pretty straightforward to me, they had a fuckload of chakra.


So did the uchiha clan tho...actually the uchiha were hyped to have even more than the senju, as it says in the scan, the uchiha had the sages eyes and chakra powers, while the senju got vitality

and physical energy



Aduro said:


> Even without mokuton they probably had powerful earth or water ninjutsu like Tobirama.


Which any fodder uchiha with a sharingan should have been able to predict and either avoid or counter it easily, or even copy it and troll the senju.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Aduro (Dec 27, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> So did the uchiha clan tho...actually the uchiha were hyped to have even more than the senju, as it says in the scan, the uchiha had the sages eyes and chakra powers, while the senju got vitality and physical energy


Prowess likely refers to their skill in using chakra rather than the amount of chakra they had. In the same way that early on Naruto could make a fuckload of clones because he had so much stamina while Sasuke had less stamina but learned complicated jutsu much more easily (although through training they both seemed to be moving past that by the end of Part 1). The stamina is more linked to the physical side while the prowess is linked to the mental side.



WorldsStrongest said:


> Which any fodder uchiha with a sharingan should have been able to predict and either avoid or counter it easily, or even copy it and troll the senju.


Sharingans have their limits. They can't see through physical objects like earth walls. The Senju were likely well aware that genjutsu only works when you look them in the eyes. Sharingan users also can't overcome their physical limits when they copy jutsu. So its likely that the fodder Senju were just using jutsu that were too powerful to counter a lot of the time. Not to mention having stamina and stronger bodies hints that the Senju were better at taijutsu. And as Lee said before he beat up Sasuke, taijutsu is the sharingan's weakness. There are plenty of ways Uchihas could have been, and in fact have been, wrecked by people with a variety of jutsu.


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 27, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Makes no sense to me that during the warring states era the senju were=the uchiha, excluding mads, izuna, hashi and tobirama, *how the hell is senju fodder>Uchiha fodder?* I mean, no senju aside from hashi has mokuton, so its essentially a bunch of randoms with good endurance Vs a bunch of randoms with sharingan and also good endurance...how does that mean they equals?



I don't think that was ever implied. It seemed more like Hashirama was so much stronger than everyone else combined that it buffed the overall standing of the clan. The Uchiha came to be considered the strongest in Konoha somewhere along the line after it was founded and there was no more Hashirama, so that's just my theory on it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Trojan (Dec 27, 2016)

VHS said:


> I don't think that was ever implied. It seemed more like Hashirama was so much stronger than everyone else combined that it buffed the overall standing of the clan. The Uchiha came to be considered the strongest in Konoha somewhere along the line after it was founded and there was no more Hashirama, so that's just my theory on it.



The Senju has Hashirama, but the uchiha had Asspulldara who also was much stronger than any other uchiha.
The Senju has Tobirama who is stronger than the 2nd strongest uchiha at the time, which is Izuna.

Their parents were also portrayed/stated to be equal.


----------



## Rai (Dec 28, 2016)

Hashirama is stronger than Madara+Izuna combined.


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 28, 2016)

Hussain said:


> The Senju has Hashirama, but the uchiha had Asspulldara who also was much stronger than any other uchiha.
> The Senju has Tobirama who is stronger than the 2nd strongest uchiha at the time, which is Izuna.
> 
> Their parents were also portrayed/stated to be equal.



Hashirama was stronger than Madara though. That, and every Uchiha at least has the potential to awaken Sharingan and upgrade it to MS. Hashirama on the other hand was a monster completely unique onto himself.


----------



## Milliardo (Dec 28, 2016)

Jinnobi said:


> Four dislikes, four disagrees... For a thread asking for controversial opinions, looks like I'm winning.


Did you expect otherwise with statements like these especially the bold?



Jinnobi said:


> - Itachi is the best character in the series. He's requires a mature mindset to analyze his motivations and actions. *He's ends up the most loving character in the series,*





Jinnobi said:


> - Itachi's full power was never explored. *His maximum potential outstripped pretty much everyone,* but due to plot and his gentle nature, we've never gotten a chance to see "bloodlusted" Itachi.





I mean controversial opinions is the point of the thread so you are perfectly in line with that.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kuzehiko (Dec 28, 2016)

That's how I see it:


Naruto could've defeated Sasuke if he wanted to in Vote2.
Adult Naruto and Adult Sasuke are equal in terms of power, though.
Adult Sakura>Tsunade.
Jiraiya's death was the most shocking among all.
Neji's death was not necessary.
Hinata was the worst female in the series.
Konan's character was better developed then Tsunade, she is the closest to be the best female character in the series.
Kakashi's the best male character in the series followed by Sasuke.
Jiraiya isn't stronger then Itachi.
Itachi was the best written character in the series.
Nagato is stronger then Itachi but loses to Minato.
Obito was the most decent villain after Oro.
Kaguya and Hidan were shit.
Kishi wasted Deidara's character, he could've been better.
Madara is terribly developed.
Shisui and Izuna could've gotten more sreen time on panel.
Konoha's feudal lords should've died.
Kabuto could've been more badass.
War arc was disappoting but it got better close to the end.
Naruto should've ended up in Kage summit arc.
Hiruzen was the worst Hokage and shitty character.
Minato was the best Hokage.
Taka team should've developed a more, the way Kishi put an end to Team Taka was terrible and one of the worst of the series.
Kishi should've developed more Sasuke's Rinnegan abilities.
The way Madara was taken down by BZ was merely a joke.
Ashura and Indra and the brothers feud was the best of the War arc.
Shikamaru wasn't that smart.
Kishi's greatest plotholes: Jiraiya abandoning Naruto until he decided to come back when he was 12 being his Godfather and Minato's death could've avoided, Madara using perfect Susanoo without Rinnegan and Kakashi magically awakening PS and even worse, getting MS after Obito's death.
Sarada is well developed meanwhile Boruto's just part 1 Naruto's clone.
Himawari has potential to be as good as Sarada and perhaps, better.
THE LAST, GAIDEN AND NEW GEN SHOULD'VE NEVER HAPPENED.

Reactions: Disagree 2


----------



## Deleted member 73050 (Dec 28, 2016)



Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## The_Conqueror (Dec 28, 2016)

Who were the team mates of 3rd raikage . Raikage needed to buy 3 days and nights
Uchiha Obito is the teacher/mentor of Uchiha Itachi
Obito/Pain could have destroyed itachi whenever they wanted. Even for a disgrace among uchihas obito was more intelligent than itachi.
I cant stand any of pairings in naruto except minato kushina.  Sasuke and Sakura are the worst among them
I cant stand Uchihas especially war arc obito. He is the shittiest character in the show.
Rin: Obito i have been watching you  "You did your best"   Naruto: He was the coolest guy"
Sakura has next to no development for a so called main character such that her usefuleness has to be compared to side characters.
Naruto was more annoying than Sakura when it came to Sasuke
Hebi sasuke was more impressive than ms sasuke
Sasuke in war arc was just unimpressive.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 28, 2016)

VHS said:


> Hashirama was stronger than Madara though. That, and every Uchiha at least has the potential to awaken Sharingan and upgrade it to MS. Hashirama on the other hand was a monster completely unique onto himself.


The Senju clan was called, according to the Databook, the clan of the 1000 hands or something
because they were very good in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Genjutsu. So, even tho the fodder uchiha has some advantages, the fodder
Senju has others which is why they are balanced out. 

You said Hashi was unique, ok, but Tobirama did not have this KKG and yet he created his own jutsu and was able to defeat the
best thing the uchiha has to offer at the time which is the MS. it may be the same with the others. who knows...


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 28, 2016)

Hussain said:


> The Senju clan was called, according to the Databook, the clan of the 1000 hands or something
> because they were very good in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu, and Genjutsu. So, even tho the fodder uchiha has some advantages, the fodder
> Senju has others which is why they are balanced out.


The Uchiha excelled in all three of those things as well though. Sharingan literally gave you the means to copy them all bar bloodlines, and they had a high aptitude for techniques even without it.



> You said Hashi was unique, ok, but Tobirama did not have this KKG and yet he created his own jutsu and was able to defeat the
> best thing the uchiha has to offer at the time which is the MS. it may be the same with the others. who knows...


Even he was an outlier among the senju though, not the standard. Kinda like what Itachi was to the Uchiha. Doubt the others can be compared to him as the likes of Tsunade is the current Senju gold standard.

Mainly I'm just saying the gulf between the standard Uchiha and Madara isn't as wide as the gulf between standard Senju and Hashirama, so the loss of both would be a bigger blow to them.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 28, 2016)

> [="VHS, post: 56420793, member: 228386"]The Uchiha excelled in all three of those things as well though. Sharingan literally gave you the means to copy them all bar bloodlines, and they had a high aptitude for techniques even without it.


you can only copy the Elements if you actually have them. But even if they copied them, the Senju have more chakra them which will allow them to make their jutsu stronger than the uchiha.  





> Even he was an outlier among the senju though, not the standard. Kinda like what Itachi was to the Uchiha. Doubt the others can be compared to him as the likes of Tsunade is the current Senju gold standard.



Same thing can be said about fodder uchihas. 
They can't be compared to itachi or Izuna, which means overall they will end up the same as well.  


> Mainly I'm just saying the gulf between the standard Uchiha and Madara isn't as wide as the gulf between standard Senju and Hashirama, so the loss of both would be a bigger blow to them.



It's pretty much is. Asspulldara was weaker than Hashirama, but he still can take him on to his limits. 

either way, I guess the main problem is basically Kishi not given a single flying fuck about anything that is not uchiha. It's just him doing 
the talk, but not doing the walk. Meh.


----------



## The Runner (Dec 28, 2016)

Gaara being a Kage so early was fucking stupid


----------



## Toph (Dec 28, 2016)

Sir Jogga said:


> Gaara being a Kage so early was fucking stupid



It still annoys me to no-end that a complete and utter psychopath became the Kazekage in less than two years, and all the fear and hatred upon him disappeared with no explaination and he was suddenly beloved by everyone who feared him as a maniacle monster despite the fact that he was prone to going on random killing sprees for no other reason because than the fact that no one loved him growing up.


----------



## The Runner (Dec 28, 2016)

HoroHoro said:


> It still annoys me to no-end that a complete and utter psychopath became the Kazekage in less than two years, and all the fear and hatred upon him disappeared with no explaination and he was suddenly beloved by everyone who feared him as a maniacle monster despite the fact that he was prone to going on random killing sprees for no other reason because than the fact that no one loved him growing up.


The fucking whiplash of it all.

Gaara straight up hated the people in the village. Ninjas tried to kill him and citizens feared him, so I call bullshit on them just accepting Gaara like that. Especially someone who was so mentally ill.

I mean fuck, didn't his father order his men, which included Gaara's uncle, to murder him in cold blood? Why would he want the job of the man who ordered his death and made his life so miserable? Why would he want to protect the people that wanted nothing to do with him?

Worst part it that we never even got to see his development. A story like that would actually be profound if there were any actual meaning to it, an arc for the character or some shit. What we got was just as lazy as it was inane.


----------



## Blu-ray (Dec 28, 2016)

Hussain said:


> you can only copy the Elements if you actually have them. But even if they copied them, the Senju have more chakra them which will allow them to make their jutsu stronger than the uchiha.



Once again barring the aberration that was Hashirama, the Uchiha in general were the ones with enormous chakra/powerful chakra. Senju had stamina and vitality which would only make them last longer, not make their techniques stronger. Though outlasting instead of overpowering accomplishes the same shit in the end anyway I suppose.



> Same thing can be said about fodder uchihas.
> They can't be compared to itachi or Izuna, which means overall they will end up the same as well.


That's exactly what I said though. Itachi was the Uchiha equivalent to Tobirama. Something far outside of the norm for both clans.



> It's pretty much is. Asspulldara was weaker than Hashirama, but he still can take him on to his limits.
> 
> either way, I guess the main problem is basically Kishi not given a single flying fuck about anything that is not uchiha. It's just him doing
> the talk, but not doing the walk. Meh.


Can't disagree with you there. The utter lack of Senju is because that clan rivalry business wasn't even conceptualized back then.


----------



## MasterORB (Dec 28, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The games are so boring and repetitive. How do people play it i will never know. It's like they have been reselling the same game since generations. It doesn't really matter what characters you choose, no gameplay that actually makes you think or strive for anything, lazy jutsu options for any character who ain't close to a main.
> 
> I can't believe they took out the ultimate jutsu movie thing. Look at their special(some where decent) was probably the only thing good about the game. The road to boruto DLC is so underwhelming lol they are juicing the fans by rehashing storm 4



Here's the problems with the games the they have something on their hands but they don't update certain characters or their moves like Juggo for example is awakening is not is version 2 of is curse seal.




blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Character wise right? I'd have to agree.


Yes, on the entire  history she only did one thing of significance and it was not that great.


----------



## Dano (Dec 28, 2016)

- Hashirama is a Senju anomaly. He's more a reincarnated Shinju like some kind of Anakin in NV. Like how his technique is closely related to how Madara summoned the fucking Shinju. How his inexplicable regenerative powers are more akin to how Zetsu or otsutsukis regenerate or how any 'otsutsuki modes' did before (Obito and Madara). There are too many parallels.

- NV moral hypocrisy in events surprisingly makes their world with a feudal like morality more than current one. You kill, let fodders be killed, you rarely face consequences. You disrespect or hurt authorities, you are killed. Only people with power can demand and seek for justice. The fodders are a non issue. Positive it was not Kishi's intention but that's how it turned out with his protagonists centered morality.

- I don't think Ino loved Sasuke. Seems more a competition thing against Sakura for her breaking their friendship. Ino seemed to be genuinely hurt about that episode and formed a grudge/competition from that. Sure Ino likes him but to an extent. She never pushed as far and seemingly backed off after FoD scene.

- Hiruzen died as a fool as he was in life, his mistakes caught up to him in the form of Orochimaru. He was probably his first obvious mistake.

- Karin was a good character in KS arc. Altho she was used as a plot tool for Sasuke descend to darkness. She could have been a good character overall if Kishi just bend her 'fangirlsm' a little and if she were given more agency after.

- Hinata is the typical shrinking violet doormat. Not convinced she evolved from that, she remained the same insecure person. I find her boring for the entire series.

- I'm fine with Sarada's character in gaiden but not the plot. It's too contrived. Bolt!Sarada is just a shadow of the former.

- Elders should have been jailed or executed. A forced retirement in the form of house arrest would have been just as fine for this kiddy series.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## adeshina365 (Dec 28, 2016)

Thread of the month?

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Arthas (Jan 3, 2017)

Here's a few more:

- Itachi was more suited to be Indra's reincarnation then Sasuke (Everything I read about Indra applies far more to Itachi then Sasuke).

- Following on from that, if one considers the Itachi and Sasuke relationship then Sasuke is more like Asura (Bonds with  T7, then Orochimaru for power then Hebi/Taka.) Asura is the guy who relies on others right? While Indra does things himself ? *cough* Itachi *cough*.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Trojan (Jan 3, 2017)

Arthas said:


> - Itachi was more suited to be Indra's reincarnation then Sasuke (Everything I read about Indra applies far more to Itachi then Sasuke).


But if you are an itachi fan, why would you even want this dumb plot to be applied to his character?


----------



## Arthas (Jan 3, 2017)

Hussain said:


> But if you are an itachi fan, why would you even want this dumb plot to be applied to his character?



Please, no need to be insulting. 

I am very far from being a fan of Itachi's character.  In fact I think Itachi sucks character wise. I am in fact a Sasuke fan***. I just think through out the entire manga Itachi was portrayed as a better ninja / more skilled / more of a genius then Sasuke was by far (Sasuke is stronger in terms of power at the end only) and considering Sasuke was meant to surpass him that leaves a bad taste in my mouth particularly when Sasuke was supposed to surpass him and is meant to a type of reincarnation of super genius who did things himself....

** Note:* I used to be a normal Sasuke fan right up till the Kage summit when Sasuke's portrayal character and feat wise went down hill on an express train. From that point on I became a disappointed Sasuke fan. 

I suppose in a wierd way I am a Sasuke version of a Naruto fan looking at Naruto and going *"what the heck is this child of destiny crap and descendant of geniuses who is fated to win? and why is he crying and fainting like that ? I thought my favorite character defied destiny, was a hard worker and etc etc."* 

Now imagine a Sasuke fan who feels much the same way about the direction that Sasuke's character was taken during the Kage Summit and you get me. Only thing is that unlike Naruto, Sasuke did not even get a good portrayal at the end of the manga to make me proud of his character again.


----------



## Klue (Jan 3, 2017)

Arthas said:


> Here's a few more:
> 
> - Itachi was more suited to be Indra's reincarnation then Sasuke (Everything I read about Indra applies far more to Itachi then Sasuke).
> 
> - Following on from that, if one considers the Itachi and Sasuke relationship then Sasuke is more like Asura (Bonds with  T7, then Orochimaru for power then Hebi/Taka.) Asura is the guy who relies on others right? While Indra does things himself ? *cough* Itachi *cough*.



It's Love over power. Sauce tried to chop those bonds.

Itachi was lovin' on the low.


----------



## Serene Grace (Jan 3, 2017)

Oh yeah I almost forgot:
- Rinnegan is immune to genjutsuck
- pains entire philosophy was true, and is the only "true" way that human beings, even in real life can know peace.


----------



## Closet Pervert (Jan 3, 2017)

Sarutobi and Minato were the strongest, the war arc doesn't count because it was pure shit.


----------



## Dano (Jan 4, 2017)

Arthas said:


> Here's a few more:
> 
> - Itachi was more suited to be Indra's reincarnation then Sasuke (Everything I read about Indra applies far more to Itachi then Sasuke).
> 
> - Following on from that, if one considers the Itachi and Sasuke relationship then Sasuke is more like Asura (Bonds with  T7, then Orochimaru for power then Hebi/Taka.) Asura is the guy who relies on others right? While Indra does things himself ? *cough* Itachi *cough*.



I think i can understand. It's not about love over power or viceversa. It's about Itachi always making his decisions in his own without anyone's consent nor knowledge beforehand. It's in his way more Indra like than Sasuke's character thru the whole manga. Sasuke's character wasn't that much against cooperation to seize his goal. He joined Orochimaru, he needed someone to train him, the first thing he did after was forming Hebi, so he knows cooperation as some form of alligned goals and at some point he almost befriended Taka. Itachi is a better fit for genius lone self-centered Indra who makes his decisions on his own without anyone's will in consideration while Sasuke is the raw, power hungry Indra who seeks power for his goal. Altho the fact Sasuke was power hungry wasn't by some nature predisposition, but circumstantial by the events in the manga. That's something i didn't get from Indra reincarnations. Seems contradictory and/or inconsistent. However Ashura reincarnations were more consistent, they were all charismatic people who befriend people easily by some naturally predisposition.

Maybe a theory of why they need a pair to form a true Indra succesor can be made. After all Sasuke and Madara needed their brothers to become effective Indra reincarnations. Altho the simplest explanation is Kishi sucks at writing.


----------



## Arthas (Jan 5, 2017)

oMeGa1904 said:


> I think i can understand. It's not about love over power or viceversa. It's about Itachi always making his decisions in his own without anyone's consent nor knowledge beforehand. It's in his way more Indra like than Sasuke's character thru the whole manga. Sasuke's character wasn't that much against cooperation to seize his goal. He joined Orochimaru, he needed someone to train him, the first thing he did after was forming Hebi, so he knows cooperation as some form of alligned goals and at some point he almost befriended Taka. Itachi is a better fit for genius lone self-centered Indra who makes his decisions on his own without anyone's will in consideration while Sasuke is the raw, power hungry Indra who seeks power for his goal. Altho the fact Sasuke was power hungry wasn't by some nature predisposition, but circumstantial by the events in the manga. That's something i didn't get from Indra reincarnations. Seems contradictory and/or inconsistent. However Ashura reincarnations were more consistent, they were all charismatic people who befriend people easily by some naturally predisposition.
> 
> Maybe a theory of why they need a pair to form a true Indra succesor can be made. After all Sasuke and Madara needed their brothers to become effective Indra reincarnations. Altho the simplest explanation is Kishi sucks at writing.



Yup,

Then you have panels where Itachi said his failure was trying to do everything himself.

Can you get more Indra like then that?


----------



## fuff (Jan 5, 2017)

oMeGa1904 said:


> - Hashirama is a Senju anomaly. He's more a reincarnated Shinju like some kind of Anakin in NV. Like how his technique is closely related to how Madara summoned the fucking Shinju. How his inexplicable regenerative powers are more akin to how Zetsu or otsutsukis regenerate or how any 'otsutsuki modes' did before (Obito and Madara). There are too many parallels.
> 
> - NV moral hypocrisy in events surprisingly makes their world with a feudal like morality more than current one. You kill, let fodders be killed, you rarely face consequences. You disrespect or hurt authorities, you are killed. Only people with power can demand and seek for justice. The fodders are a non issue. Positive it was not Kishi's intention but that's how it turned out with his protagonists centered morality.
> 
> ...


if i recall sakura stopping being ino friend because of sasuke but it was also because ino was someone she had to overcome because ino was confident whereas sakura wasnt. i think it was shown at the end of their fight that ino gave sakura acknowledgement, that she "blossomed" but ya i dont think ino loved sasuke she had a crush on him for sure, her IT dream was a joke: sai vs sasuke hahah


----------



## Dano (Jan 5, 2017)

Arthas said:


> Yup,
> 
> Then you have panels where Itachi said his failure was trying to do everything himself.
> 
> Can you get more Indra like then that?


Yep



fuff said:


> if i recall sakura stopping being ino friend because of sasuke but it was also because ino was someone she had to overcome because ino was confident whereas sakura wasnt. i think it was shown at the end of their fight that ino gave sakura acknowledgement, that she "blossomed" but ya i dont think ino loved sasuke she had a crush on him for sure, her IT dream was a joke: sai vs sasuke hahah



I don't analyze from Sakura's perspective since it matter little to nothing from Ino's end. What i think is from Ino's end and receiver of Sakura's motive of why she broke their friendship at that point in time. Which she explicitly said it was because they were rivals for Sasuke's love. And yeah i don't think Ino really loved him but rather a competition/grudge towards Sakura.


----------



## Brooks (Jan 5, 2017)

Hussain said:


> It's not like did anything to be considered a hero in the first place.



Onoki, fucking Onoki.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 5, 2017)

Brooks said:


> Onoki, fucking Onoki.


Yeah, that was hilariously bad. lol 
What even worst is, he actually failed to undo Asspulldara's ET which was the only one left anyway.


----------



## Brooks (Jan 5, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Yeah, that was hilariously bad. lol
> What even worst is, he actually failed to undo Asspulldara's ET which was the only one left anyway.



It's like every time Kishimoto draws a panel of Itachi, he's snorting cocaine up from the ass.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Brooks (Jan 5, 2017)

lndra said:


> B-But he saved Sasuke! HE'S THE TRUE HOKAGE!



You could tell even as the manga was ending, Kishimoto was still trying to justify his killing of innocent people.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Indra (Jan 5, 2017)

Brooks said:


> You're could tell even as the manga was ending, Kishimoto was still trying to justify his killing of innocent people.


Agreed.


----------



## Iwanko (Jan 6, 2017)

Naruto  and Sasuke equality was forced as hell.


----------



## Zef (Jan 6, 2017)

Yeah, what Onoki said was pretty dumb. What if it was another villain that undid Edo Tensei? 
He would look stupid.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 6, 2017)

You know what more Ironic, is that the world was save and destroy by the villains. Listen here guys like Orochimaru, Sasuke, Kabuto, Obito, destroy and save the world in a way.
In my opinion if it wasn't for some villains the the entire ninja army was done. But it is just my opinion.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ayumi11 (Jan 11, 2017)

Hi, can I join you?  

My controversial states? Mmmm... let's see:

- The "Obito the coolest guy" thing was pure shit. He's responsible, directly or indirectly, of Uchiha clan downfall, Neji, Minato, Kushina, Yahiko, Konan, Jiraiya, Iruka's parents, Shikaku, Inoichi and a lot of fodders' death. He ruined Itachi and Sasuke's life. He's the culprit of all the pain and victims of Akatsuki. How the hell was he "the coolest"?

- Hinata had a lot of potential as a character, but was reduced only as Naruto's love interest. Nevertheless, all she did, especially the speech in chap. 615, was great

-Kishimoto should have stopped at Sage mode for Naruto and MS for Sasuke. Strenght levels were completely fucked up from KS onward

- Sakura is one of the strongest, but her abilities were shown almost exclusively in Sasuke's presence or in Sasuke related events (e.g Sasori)

- Although Obito's creepy obsession, I don't really mind Rin.

-Naruto was ruined in part 2: he never really grew but keeps getting attention, credit and praises by everyone, despite all the bullshits he says.

- I don't like how Kishi has used Sasuke just to make the plot proceeding. Sasuke is calm, reasonable, focused even under emotions' control, as shown in part 1 and even in part 2 against Itachi. He can easily read the atmosphere , as well as people's feelings. So I guess some of his actions in KS and War Arc were due only to Kishi's bad writing

- I like Kakashi but he's the worst sensei. Never really trained Sakura, always ignoring Naruto in part 1 and never able to have a decent talk with Sasuke. And... Is he really suited for Hokage's seat?

- I loved Itachi's  character and his final words to Sasuke but he truly wasn't perfect nor was he that clever in trusting "Madara" ( oh boy, c'mon). He was a victim but not a hero, just the perfect soldier whose mask fortunately crushed for the sake of his little brother. All the idolization he gets among other characters and readers is... dangerous, disturbing!

- Sasuke had no reason to join Akatsuki or attack Bee. Kishi did it only to make him appear bad and to turn Konoha and the other countries against him...

- I find Fugaku and Sasuke similar in expressing their emotions

- Minato wasn't really a good father

- Kushina is Naruto's copy and it's made really explicit so many times in the manga. The red herring Kushina-Sakura parallel is simply stupid

- Himawari is the greatest new entry

- Studio Pierrot sucks and makes OOC almost all the cast.

- Although they get scenes only during the War in Part 2, Sasuke and Sakura are by far the best couple. While NaruHina in the manga is supported for more than 80 % by Hinata's feelings, SS gets really a lot from Sasuke too, not just Sakura.
He truly treasures her, scolding her when she needs to be and at the same time cheering and pointing out her qualities. He , who's so jealous of his private space with everyone, male or female, physically touches her many times and he's at ease only when she's the one touching him. Also, he trusts her a lot: Sakura is the only one in the serie to be told by Sasuke himself about Uchiha clan and Itachi, the only one receiving serious apology by him. Not to mention the 2 "thank you" or the forehead poke.
It was really a pity that her lack of self confidence made her unaware, except in Gaiden, of the great importance and influence she's had through the entire serie on him.


----------



## Rohan (Jan 11, 2017)

SasuSaku is the most hinted at pairing in Part 1.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Creative 1


----------



## Trojan (Jan 11, 2017)

Ayumi11 said:


> - The "Obito the coolest guy" thing was pure shit. He's responsible, directly or indirectly, of Uchiha clan downfall, Neji, Minato, Kushina, Yahiko, Konan, Jiraiya, Iruka's parents, Shikaku, Inoichi and a lot of fodders' death. He ruined Itachi and Sasuke's life. He's the culprit of all the pain and victims of Akatsuki. How the hell was he "the coolest"?


I don't think that's controversial tho...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Ayumi11 (Jan 11, 2017)

Hussain said:


> I don't think that's controversial tho...



I'm really glad to know!

Ah! I forgot to add:
- Shizune should have died during Pain's assault, as well as Chouza and Choji

- One of Naruto's worst actions was saving Gai against Madara... I truly love Gai, in that moment he was gonna be a hero...

- Team 8 should have defeated on its own at least one or two Akatsuki members

- Tsunade is so underrated  

- I really like Karin, she's so funny, but I can't stand Team Taka, it could have been replaced by other well known characters 

-Juugo looks like C16 of Dragon Ball but is so lame and awful

- I can't stand Sai


----------



## Klue (Jan 13, 2017)

Tsunade for top lady; double middles to Kaguya. All of Kishi's other female chars are too weak. They need to swap their ninja license in for an apron and a spatula. 

Yeah, I said it.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Jan 13, 2017)

Klue said:


> Tsunade for top lady; double middles to Kaguya. All of Kishi's other female chars are too week. They need to swap their ninja license in for an apron and a spatula.
> 
> Yeah, I said it.


Temari? 

Though judging by early pt2 Sakura had the potential to be a proper kunoichi as well. Sadly, she was mentally challenged.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Klue (Jan 13, 2017)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Temari?



Shit!! I knew I forgot someone, good call. 





-Ziltoid- said:


> Though judging by early pt2 Sakura had the potential to be a proper kunoichi as well. Sadly, she was mentally challenged.



The love confession to Naruto ruined it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 13, 2017)

Iwanko said:


> Naruto  and Sasuke equality was forced as hell.


I feel you, especially VOTE2 and beyond. Ukyo is picking up where kishi left off and will continue to nerf the rinnegan so others stand a chance. It's something we just gotta deal with at this point.


----------



## Iwanko (Jan 13, 2017)

Ayumi11 said:


> - The "Obito the coolest guy" thing was pure shit. He's responsible, directly or indirectly, of Uchiha clan downfall, Neji, Minato, Kushina, Yahiko, Konan, Jiraiya, Iruka's parents, Shikaku, Inoichi and a lot of fodders' death. He ruined Itachi and Sasuke's life. He's the culprit of all the pain and victims of Akatsuki. How the hell was he "the coolest"?


 Context. On the VIz trans he said that Obito who wanted to be hokage was the coolest guy meaning young Obito.





blackguyinpinksuit said:


> I feel you, especially VOTE2 and beyond. Ukyo is picking up where kishi left off and will continue to nerf the rinnegan so others stand a chance. It's something we just gotta deal with at this point.


don't think that if even Rinnegan wasn't nerfed  Sasuke would be equal unnerfed Naruto without bijuu because of rinnegan natural limitations.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Jan 13, 2017)

Klue said:


> The love confession to Naruto ruined it.


Frankly, I thought that her final confession to Sasuke was far worse to her character... it annihilated what little was left of her dignity. Why couldn't she just stand up for herself and call him out on his bullshit, even if she didn't have the power to stop him, she could at least have tried to do something other than sobbing and begging...

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 13, 2017)

Iwanko said:


> don't think that if even Rinnegan wasn't nerfed  Sasuke would be equal unnerfed Naruto without bijuu because of rinnegan natural limitations.


What limitations? The ones made up by the fandom to bullshit themselves into thinking there's a actually "reason" for the rinnegan's nerfed showings? Preta path being used at the same time as other paths/ninjutsu is logically already too much. That's why kishi didn't let it happen at VOTE2, stop playing around. I bet you can't even explain why sasuke just doesn't warp every foe on his attacks with a mere thought like we already know he can/seen him do. Also bringing up sasuke's feat of doing the inverse of hagoromo splitting the ten tails is just more hype power to the rinnegan so i'm not sure why you're trying to downplay using that feat.

If you can't(or refuse) to grasp the potential power and combinations of the rinnegan(in this case, sasuke's) then you gotta be one of those naruto fanboys. You're all in denial there's no rationalizing with your ilk. Beyond pitiful.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2017)

Iwanko said:


> Context. On the VIz trans he said that Obito who wanted to be hokage was the coolest guy meaning young Obito.


He is the same guy

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2017)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> What limitations? The ones made up by the fandom to bullshit themselves into thinking there's a actually "reason" for the rinnegan's nerfed showings? Preta path being used at the same time as other paths/ninjutsu is logically already too much. That's why kishi didn't let it happen at VOTE2, stop playing around. I bet you can't even explain why sasuke just doesn't warp every foe on his attacks with a mere thought like we already know he can/seen him do. Also bringing up sasuke's feat of doing the inverse of hagoromo splitting the ten tails is just more hype power to the rinnegan so i'm not sure why you're trying to downplay using that feat.
> 
> If you can't(or refuse) to grasp the potential power and combinations of the rinnegan(in this case sasuke's) then you gotta be one of those naruto fanboys. You're all in denial there's no rationalizing with your ilk. Beyond pitiful.


All the characters gets nerfed.

And frankly, without nerf, Naruto would have fodderstompped the living shit out of Sasuke. Since the war arc started, no one in their right mind thought of Sasuke as a threat to Naruto. In fact, everyone was wonding how on earth does Sasuke even stand a chance. 

And at that point (until now) the only argument Sasuke fanboys have "they are portrayed to be equal" lol

The Rinnegan is highly overrated. You are saying "Preta path" when Naruto shut down that ability before
Bolt did it, and so did Jiraiya and itachi as well.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Zef (Jan 13, 2017)

Temari's a housewife.


Only Kunoichi still active from the old Gen is Kurotsuchi and Ino.

Tsunade was at least in her 60's by chapter 700. Gaiden/Boruto is a few years after that so she could even be in her 70's. She ain't top no more. 



-Ziltoid- said:


> Though judging by early pt2 Sakura had the *potential to be a proper kunoichi* as well. Sadly, she was mentally challenged.


You say this, and yet gave your girl Hinata a 10 even though she's still Chunin while other girls in her generation advanced to Jounin.
Just sayin.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Jan 13, 2017)

Zef said:


> You say this, and yet gave your girl Hinata a 10 even though she's still Chunin while other girls in her generation advanced to Jounin.
> Just sayin.


...implying that I merely should have rated Hinata based on her strength? 

If you took a moment instead of being the irate fanboy, you could've noticed that I deliberately did not name Hinata in that post. Of course, when Sakura is mentioned, the mouth opens and the eyes shut close. I suppose now all I have to wait for is that someone throws in the subject of Karin in order to defend Sakura's lack of accomplishments


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 13, 2017)

Hussain said:


> And frankly, without nerf, Naruto would have fodderstompped the living shit out of Sasuke. Since the war arc started, no one in their right mind thought of Sasuke as a threat to Naruto. In fact, everyone was wonding how on earth does Sasuke even stand a chance.


They were saying that before sasuke got the rinnegan.


> And at that point (until now) the only argument, Sasuke fanboys have "they are portrayed to be equal" lol


Don't see how EMS sasuke was equal to BSM naruto when EMS sasuke was in awe of naruto's BM on panel. It's pretty much word of god(the author) that there equals as of now(as adults). Either way, i just want to see rinnegan hax utilized in the most efficient, powerful manner possible.


> The Rinnegan is highly overrated.


Impossible. How do you overrate something that can tame the most powerful creature in the series? Not to mention the myriad of god like techniques it afford it's users. If anything it's abilities are undermined by the author for obvious reasons.


> You are saying "Preta path" when Naruto shut down that ability before
> Bolt did it, and so did Jiraiya and itachi as well.


Sasuke successfully used a point blank preta path absorption on naruto during VOTE2. Sasuke not using it at all as an adult is sheer neglect and stupidity on kishi/ukyo's part. Sasuke should be absorbing all of the ninjutsu that come his way but that wouldn't be fair. So we are stuck with sasuke just using the rinnegan to teleport. It's disgraceful writing, don't defend or try to makes sense of it.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Zef (Jan 13, 2017)

-Ziltoid- said:


> ...implying that I merely should have rated Hinata based on her strength?


Well since you care about "potential to be a proper Kunoichi" you could at least drop Hinata a point or two.


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Jan 13, 2017)

Zef said:


> Well since you care about "potential to be a proper Kunoichi" you could at least drop Hinata a point or two.


Last I checked Hinata was a rather untalented chunin, and a side character. Meanwhile, Sakura was supposedly the heroine, trained by Tsunade, who constantly brought up the issue of catching up to Naruto and Sasuke. This kinda puts the two on different standards, doesn't it?

I don't really care how strong Hinata was, though, when I consider how much I like or dislike her character. Strength wasn't really her goal, nor did it inhibit her at playing a role in the manga. The only real thing I dislike is that Kishi shoved her to the background and practically forgot about her. Then again, the same happened to Sakura, who only was brought back at the moments Sasuke came into the picture. 

Genre or not, Kishimoto wasn't exactly positive on the position of women..

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2017)

> [="blackguyinpinksuit, post: 56472737, member: 230734"]They were saying that before sasuke got the rinnegan.


No, the perception was the same. Heck, it could have been worst for Sasuke after his pitiful performance with Kaguya.
Even Sakura was better than him, and people were saying Kakashi with MS is stronger than him as well. 


> Don't see how EMS sasuke was equal to BSM naruto when EMS sasuke was in awe of naruto's BM on panel. It's pretty much word of god(the author) that there equals as of now(as adults). Either way, i just want to see rinnegan hax utilized in the most efficient, powerful manner possible.


Kishi is repetitive with everything. However, even tho he is extremely repetitive, he tries to not make the users "identical" so to speak.
On other words, you will never see what you want because that will effect Pain/Nagato.


> Impossible. How do you overrate something that can tame the most powerful creature in the series? Not to mention the myriad of god like techniques it afford it's users. If anything it's abilities are undermined by the author for obvious reasons.


The Juubi? Please. That shit was EXTREMELY underwhelming and lack-laster.
> Obito sealed it when he was almost dead and controlled it in no time
> Asspulldara did the same shit
> The Hokage shut him down in less than a minute.

I don't even understand how the fuck did it need both Fago and his brother to deal with it. 


Most of the Rinnegans abilities are only gimmicky. 



> Sasuke successfully used a point blank preta path absorption on naruto during VOTE2. Sasuke not using it at all as an adult is sheer neglect and stupidity on kishi/ukyo's part. Sasuke should be absorbing all of the ninjutsu that come his way but that wouldn't be fair. So we are stuck with sasuke just using the rinnegan to teleport. It's disgraceful writing, don't defend or try to makes sense of it.



Same shit can be said about Momoshiki, Nagato, Pain, Kisame, Toneri, Kaguya, Samehada...etc etc

Yet, people don't consider Kisame stronger than Asspulldara for example because can absorb Asspulldara's PS with his Shark jutsu.
neither do you see them saying Nagato/Pain is stronger than EMS Asspulldara either (and that includes you, no?)

So, why do you think that applies to some, but not the others? 
Shouldn't that mean it's not necessarily being "nerfed", but rather it's about the opponent's level?


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 13, 2017)

Hussain said:


> No, the perception was the same. Heck, it could have been worst for Sasuke after his pitiful performance with Kaguya.
> Even Sakura was better than him, and people were saying Kakashi with MS is stronger than him as well.


This is nonsense. Rakiri19 and some other kakashitards saying kakashi>sasuke doesn't mean anything. We all know where sasuke stands.


> Kishi is repetitive with everything. However, even tho he is extremely repetitive, he tries to not make the users "identical" so to speak.
> On other words, you will never see what you want because that will effect Pain/Nagato.


He wouldn't need to make them the same. Give the animal path different animals. Give the asura path new weapons. He could've gave preta path momoshiki's ability.


> The Juubi? Please. That shit was EXTREMELY underwhelming and lack-laster.
> > Obito sealed it when he was almost dead and controlled it in no time
> > Asspulldara did the same shit
> > The Hokage shut him down in less that a minute.
> I don't even understand how the fuck did it need both Fago and his brother to deal with it.


You can't be serious right now. The juubi's firepower, durability, chakra and everything else about is leagues upon leagues stronger than the other beast combined. It's kaguya fused with the god tree for god sakes.


> Most of the Rinnegans abilities are only comics.


Canon proves otherwise. The rinnegan has shown way too much to even try this.


> Same shit can be said about Momoshiki,


They had to stab his absorbing rinnegan to stop him.


> Nagato,


Hit with a spirit sword while in brainless zombie mode


> Pain,


They had to kill preta path to stop him.


> Kisame,


Defeated without samahada and needed specialty taijutsu to stop him.


> Toneri,


His absorption is very specific.


> Kaguya,


Her absorption was very specific.


> Yet, people don't consider Kisame stronger than Asspulldara for example because can absorb Asspulldara's PS with his Shark jutsu.


Because he's not unless you're name is troyse22. Madara could probably kill kisame without PS or susanoo tbh. Either that or mountain cutting shockwaves one shot.


> neither do you see them saying Nagato/Pain is stronger than EMS Asspulldara either (and that includes you, no?)


Only without PS and kyuubi is nagato stronger than madara. Otherwise PS slash him down with a shockwave.


> So, why do you think that applies to some, but not the others?


Never said it didn't apply to others. I'm talking about sasuke and the rinnegan here.


> Shouldn't that mean it's not necessarily being "nerfed", but rather it's about the opponent's level?


Sasuke is a god tier who has fought equally with the strongest of god tiers. Especially adult sasuke. There is no reason why he shouldn't be spamming preta path, shinra tensei, basho tenin etc against his opponents.

Just admit that kishi want sasuke to keep using susanoo and ameno lol.


----------



## D4truf (Jan 13, 2017)

The war arc was good especially if you watch the fights in the anime.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Useful 1 | Creative 1


----------



## Iwanko (Jan 13, 2017)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> What limitations? The ones made up by the fandom to bullshit themselves into thinking there's a actually "reason" for the rinnegan's nerfed showings? Preta path being used at the same time as other paths/ninjutsu is logically already too much. That's why kishi didn't let it happen at VOTE2, stop playing around.


 Prove me that someone who awakened rinnegan naturally can use PP along  with other jutsu and paths. Because i have proof that they cant (at least with some jutsu). And it was a lot more experienced rinnegan user than Sasuke.   (QUOTE] I bet you can't even explain why sasuke just doesn't warp every foe on his attacks with a mere thought like we already know he can/seen him do.[/QUOTE] Ameno limited range i guess. I might be wrong , but everytime when he swapped with  someone they were within Ameno range.[ QUOTE]Also bringing up sasuke's feat of doing the inverse of hagoromo splitting the ten tails is just more hype power to the rinnegan so i'm not sure why you're trying to downplay using that feat.
.[/QUOTE] This feat is more his chakra control feat than rinnegan power feat.


Hussain said:


> He is the same guy


With different personality/mindset.


----------



## Zef (Jan 13, 2017)

D4truf said:


> The war arc was good





> especially if you watch the fights in the anime.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


----------



## D4truf (Jan 13, 2017)

Zef said:


>


Why you hating bro lol


----------



## Blu-ray (Jan 13, 2017)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Just admit that kishi want sasuke to keep using susanoo and ameno lol.


Even those two are in sparse use these days. Shit, the dude hasn't even bothered with fucking Amaterasu. Though that's probably for the best tbh.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Corvida (Jan 13, 2017)

-Ziltoid- said:


> Last I checked Hinata was a rather untalented chunin, and a side character. Meanwhile, Sakura was supposedly the heroine, trained by Tsunade, who constantly brought up the issue of catching up to Naruto and Sasuke. This kinda puts the two on different standards, doesn't it?






No.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 13, 2017)

I still think Boruto is a boring character and they trying to more then can chew, Because the main character of your main series doesn't work, don't try to put everything in one basket.
And don't try to add copy characters like Sai and Yamato who are copy's of Sasuke and Kakashi to take is spot light of this two characters, i still thought Kishimoto try to make Naruto be the most popular character that he fail at it and people caught on it.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Creative 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## -Ziltoid- (Jan 13, 2017)

Corvida said:


> No.


What, no Karin?


----------



## Corvida (Jan 13, 2017)

-Ziltoid- said:


> What, no Karin?



 Jesus, Zilt, refrain your anxiety!



Pa qué?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Zef (Jan 13, 2017)

VHS said:


> Even those two are in sparse use these days. Shit, the dude hasn't even bothered with fucking Amaterasu. Though that's probably for the best tbh.


Yes, we don't want to see Amaterasu fail at burning something else.


MasterORB said:


> *I still think Boruto is a boring character and they trying to more then can chew, Because the main character of your main series doesn't work, don't try to put everything in one basket.*


This

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Indra (Jan 13, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> I still think Boruto is a boring character and they trying to more then can chew,


How can you still think a character is boring? Don't you mean you find the character boring?

It's just a rehash unless I'm missing something. There's nothing dedicated to the flash forward, saying something is more that it can chew based on four panels is really naive. Don't you think?




MasterORB said:


> Because the main character of your main series doesn't work, don't try to put everything in one basket.


How do they do this?



MasterORB said:


> And don't try to add copy characters like Sai and Yamato who are copy's of Sasuke and Kakashi to take is spot light of this two characters, i still thought Kishimoto try to make Naruto be the most popular character that he fail at it and people caught on it.


But how do they do this?

Somehow people get into the idea that adding a few design choices equates to the creators rehashing characters or copying them entirely into someone else.

There's barely anything on anyone's personality. Having a scar doesn't make Boruto, Kakashi.

In regards to the latter, Boruto's has a similar cape, but the colors are completely different. What they did rehash was for some reason brown shoes being the style in the Boruto manga verse? Also the sword, which might be his too, it's not confirmed though.

However the style under the cloak, and the color scheme is the same as it was before. I don't get most of the complaints, but I guess this is just the Naruto fandom.

We (not as in you but everyone including myself) just complain complain complain. Even if it isn't explained, then we complain some more

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Trojan (Jan 13, 2017)

Iwanko said:


> With different personality/mindset.


I don't see what difference does that make.  
His previous personality/mindset means nothing. He is still the worst criminal the Naruto-verse has ever seen, 
and Naruto's statement was completely and utterly retarded.


----------



## Klue (Jan 14, 2017)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> More bad logic. I can't show you anyone getting defeated by toneri's moon cutter either, a jutsu you have wanked in spades. Guess what that means...



Oh shit son.



I'm calling this one.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


----------



## Dano (Jan 14, 2017)

> Sasuke got a low or considerable "low" amount of chakra from the remaining bijuus in VoTE. In contrary to other readers, Sasuke doesn't even have 100% of all the remaining bijuus' chakra in VotE 2.0. The absorbtion of Bijuu's chakra is proportional to their size. They shrink when halved (see Kurama when Minato sealed half of his chakra). They lost limbs which represent a portion of their chakra (tentacles from Hachibi). That makes sense since bijuus are just chakra creatures so their flesh is actually chakra itself and vice-versa. (Ginkaku and Kinkaku adquired some Kurama's flesh and adquired part of his chakra). So in that sense if Sasuke would have used 100% of the bijuus chakra they'd have dissapeared but after cancelling CT, they appear almost in normal size meaning Sasuke just got a low percentage of their chakra to throw Indra's arrow. At least by visual content. His feat is actually how well he mixed the bijuus chakra, reversing Hago's technique.

> In every iteration of CT the user needs both hands for the hand seal. So maybe Sasuke lacking a hand affects that specific technique. Which he is the most versed up to date. 9 CT in one swipe is a hell of a feat, or BS, depends on your view. However the bar set by Madara was always ridiculous.

> Rinnegan nerfes are consistent by other shonen mangas. I mean how many times there are villains who can destroy planets easily just to later throw "stronger" techniques that barely scratch the Earth. *cough*DB*cough*. I think a note for shonen authors is not to make techniques so ridiculous. First casualty is obviously Amaterasu.


----------



## Zef (Jan 14, 2017)

Kishi doesn't care about consistency with his characters yet alone their abilities. Just look at how far Amaterasu has fallen over the manga's duration.

Perfect Susano'o is another example. When Madara used it there was a sense of power. Then Kaguya comes along and trashes PS repeatedly with fucking chakra punches and bones.

Kishi excels at giving a strong *first showing*. But afterwards? He don't give a damn.


Rinnegan is just par the course for him. Nagato will remain the epitome of Rinnegan's potential unless the Boruto writer changes things; which I doubt seeing as how all Sasuke's done is use kenjutsu.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> How can you still think a character is boring? Don't you mean you find the character boring?
> 
> It's just a rehash unless I'm missing something. There's nothing dedicated to the flash forward, saying something is more that it can chew based on four panels is really naive. Don't you think?
> 
> ...



I'm not saying about the clothes, what I'm saying is the personality traits that he has, for example He has the objective like Sasuke and Itachi, and the personality and looks of Naruto, Almost the Same move set has Naruto Kagebushin and the Rasengan, Is a elder brother like Itachi, is a loser like Naruto even Sasuke says it.
If we were to put is flash forward looks into play we is a combination of Naruto/Sasuke/Itachi/Kakashi.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Klue (Jan 14, 2017)

oMeGa1904 said:


> They shrink when halved (see Kurama when Minato sealed half of his chakra).



Half in quality, not amount.



oMeGa1904 said:


> In every iteration of CT the user needs both hands for the hand seal. So maybe Sasuke lacking a hand affects that specific technique.



So does Kage Bunshin, and Chodori. Hand seals *assist *in the movement/manipulation of chakra for jutsu.



Zef said:


> Kishi doesn't care about consistency with his characters yet alone their abilities.



True.



Zef said:


> Perfect Susano'o is another example. When Madara used it there was a sense of power. Then Kaguya comes along and trashes PS repeatedly with fucking chakra punches and bones.



It's Kaguya though. Power to casually rape a Six Paths Susanoo should be expected. She is many times greater than a 10 Tails Jinchuuriki Madara with double Rinnegan.

Unfortunate for Sasuke, but it's one of few examples where Kaguya was played up to her hype.



Zef said:


> Rinnegan is just par the course for him. Nagato will remain the epitome of Rinnegan's potential unless the Boruto writer changes things; which I doubt seeing as how all Sasuke's done is use kenjutsu.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dano (Jan 14, 2017)

Klue said:


> Half in quality, not amount.



Is it explicitly said that part in the manga when Kurama's chakra is halved? And if so in this manga is almost indistinct in if by quality or amount tbh.



Klue said:


> So does Kage Bunshin, and Chodori. Hand seals *assist *in the movement/manipulation of chakra for jutsu.



True and i believe that however in every iteration could probably means hand seal for CT are essential not only to assist. Chidori was seen without hand seals by Sasuke and Kakashi. And if it is to assist only. Sasuke losing his hand probably means he could not develop that technique to mastery level. Only in mastery level you can prescind the hand seals since you don't need assist to chakra manipulation. As seen his Chidori which doesnt require hand seals when he was proficient enough with that jutsu.


----------



## Zef (Jan 14, 2017)

Klue said:


> It's Kaguya though. Power to casually rape a Six Paths Susanoo should be expected. She is many times greater than a 10 Tails Jinchuuriki Madara with double Rinnegan.


I know, I was just annoyed by the amount of times PS got shat on. Like damn Kishi we get it



oMeGa1904 said:


> True and i believe that however in every iteration could probably means hand seal for CT are essential not only to assist.


I get what you're saying but there's no instance where hand seals served any purpose besides Chakra manipulation.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Dano (Jan 14, 2017)

Zef said:


> I get what you're saying but there's no instance where hand seals served any purpose besides Chakra manipulation.



True but can't say theories can't be made. Rinnegan powers and bs can override some conceptions. And if not the case my second reason as to why Sasuke could prob not perform CT with one hand, as he never achieved mastery in that jutsu can explain. Wheter it convinces or not the reader well....


----------



## Klue (Jan 14, 2017)

@Hussain, I already called it. Fight over.

:letgo

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Trojan (Jan 14, 2017)

Klue said:


> @Hussain, I already called it. Fight over.
> 
> :letgo



It's not like I was planning to go on forever. 

in fact, seeing your delusional post what made me reply in the first place.


----------



## Indra (Jan 14, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 





MasterORB said:


> I'm not saying about the clothes, what I'm saying is the personality traits that he has, for example He has the objective like Sasuke and Itachi


Objective? I mean he had a thirst for power, but his mentality was placed in the wrong way. I doubt that current Boruto is a power hungry.... He wanted to surpass his father, but that was simply an excuse so that Naruto could finally notice him. Him using the KOTE device just proves he was lazy enough to not want to train in order to improve and grow, which directly makes him the opposite of Sasuke in how he gained power.



MasterORB said:


> Iand the personality and looks of Naruto


I am pretty sure their personalities are quite different. I'm not going to explain this further, if you watched the Movie you know how different they are in contrast.



MasterORB said:


> I Almost the Same move set has Naruto Kagebushin and the Rasengan


Yeah. Although what he doesn't share with his father outweighs what he does (in accordance that he has more versatility/jutsu/skills that his father doesn't even have today).



MasterORB said:


> IIs a elder brother like Itachi


Does being the older sibling really bring any connection to Itachi at all?



MasterORB said:


> Iis a loser like Naruto even Sasuke says it.


Sasuke didn't really call him a loser in a conventional sense, he called him "ursuratonkachi" which is the childhood nickname Sasuke used for Naruto. It means loser or 'dupe' when translated, however the meaning of the name changed as Naruto/Sasuke bonded and became friends again. To Sasuke Boruto is an 'Ursuratonkach' because he hates to lose.



MasterORB said:


> If we were to put is flash forward looks into play we is a combination of Naruto/Sasuke/Itachi/Kakashi.


I dunno. Before Boruto was fleshed out, there was a conversation between Naruto/Sasuke about his personality directly. Where Sasuke who just met him assumed he was exactly like Naruto, but his father was saying that he was more like Sasuke instead. But then changed his mind and said that Boruto was different from them both - I think the basis of his character will be both Naruto and Sasuke, but there is an overwhelming difference which shows that he's not like both (which of would of been how Boruto tackles power/training/hard work ethics). Which are major components of both Naruto and Sasuke's character.

Regardless I don't think he'll be like Naruto/Sasuke/Kakashi/Itachi entirely.... lol


----------



## Platypus (Jan 14, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Frankly, absorbing "Shadow" does not make sense.


Why can't Preta absorb shadows made of yin type chakra (like fire, wind, laser circus, jinton, senjutsu chakra, etc.)?


----------



## Trojan (Jan 14, 2017)

Platypus said:


> Why can't Preta absorb shadows made of yin type chakra (like fire, wind, laser circus, jinton, senjutsu chakra, etc.)?


Since Momoshiki absorbed Shika's shadow, does that mean Shika does not have a shadow anymore? 

He is not "creating" shadows he is just controlling his own. I see that like Mitsuki for example controlling his arms and making them longer, can that be absorbed?

Or Gaara's control of sand which Asspulldara was not able to absorb, and so on...


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 14, 2017)

Indra said:


> Objective? I mean he had a thirst for power, but his mentality was placed in the wrong way. I doubt that current Boruto is a power hungry.... He wanted to surpass his father, but that was simply an excuse so that Naruto could finally notice him. Him using the KOTE device just proves he was lazy enough to not want to train in order to improve and grow, which directly makes him the opposite of Sasuke in how he gained power.


I'm not saying power hungry, but being a ninja that works in the shadows like Sasuke and Itachi.



Indra said:


> I am pretty sure their personalities are quite different. I'm not going to explain this further, if you watched the Movie you know how different they are in contrast.


I have reading the manga and Boruto character isn't really that impressive, in my impression he is just a Naruto clone if is parents were alive and didn't want to become a Hokage.



Indra said:


> Yeah. Although what he doesn't share with his father outweighs what he does (in accordance that he has more versatility/jutsu/skills that his father doesn't even have today).


By the manga standards he only show two techniques that could do on is own and that was Kagebushin and the Rasengan the rest he had the help of the science weapon.  



Indra said:


> Does being the older sibling really bring any connection to Itachi at all?


He makes him look like a good kid that worries about is sister like Itachi did before the massacre and has well for him to look like a spoiler brat. 


Indra said:


> Sasuke didn't really call him a loser in a conventional sense, he called him "ursuratonkachi" which is the childhood nickname Sasuke used for Naruto. It means loser or 'dupe' when translated, however the meaning of the name changed as Naruto/Sasuke bonded and became friends again. To Sasuke Boruto is an 'Ursuratonkach' because he hates to lose.


Still has a personality like Naruto.


Indra said:


> I dunno. Before Boruto was fleshed out, there was a conversation between Naruto/Sasuke about his personality directly. Where Sasuke who just met him assumed he was exactly like Naruto, but his father was saying that he was more like Sasuke instead. But then changed his mind and said that Boruto was different from them both - I think the basis of his character will be both Naruto and Sasuke, but there is an overwhelming difference which shows that he's not like both (which of would of been how Boruto tackles power/training/hard work ethics). Which are major components of both Naruto and Sasuke's character.


Come on really he's gonna be a special one like is father if this manga continues.


Indra said:


> Regardless I don't think he'll be like Naruto/Sasuke/Kakashi/Itachi entirely.... lol


He star looking like one if this continues this trend.


----------



## Iwanko (Jan 15, 2017)

Hussain said:


> I don't see what difference does that make.
> His previous personality/mindset means nothing. He is still the worst criminal the Naruto-verse has ever seen,
> and Naruto's statement was completely and utterly retarded.


It means that Naruto admired young Obito who was basically Naruto himself. But i agree that  it was one of the most dumbest things that were said along with Sakura confession and Sasuke's  'you were perfect".


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

*Spoiler*: __ 





MasterORB said:


> I'm not saying power hungry, but being a ninja that works in the shadows like Sasuke and Itachi.


Does that kind of goal make characters alike? I tend to think that if a character chooses a path, it won't overly consume their character.

For instance we have many characters in the Manga who for better or worse, have strived to be Hokage. Yet, not all of these characters are 'alike'.




MasterORB said:


> I have reading the manga and Boruto character isn't really that impressive, in my impression he is just a Naruto clone if is parents were alive and didn't want to become a Hokage.


Well... I'm not really sure what to say. I won't force why he's this and that -- But I will say this. Kushina stated Naruto's personality, more so what would of happened if they were both alive.

Naruto came out exactly the same as she predicted On that note, they are largely different outside of being brats.



Funny enough Kushina stated he would yell about being Hokage all the time, and Boruto does the exact opposite 




MasterORB said:


> By the manga standards he only show two techniques that could do on is own and that was Kagebushin and the Rasengan the rest he had the help of the science weapon.


By the manga standards he stated he could utilize three elemental natures, learned shuriken jutsu under Sasuke's guidance, and learned to do a Rasengan variant which is unlike his father's version. Before you question his ninjutsu usage, mind you I said he could utilize their natures, not form jutsu with them or has stated jutsu. Regardless if that matter is true or not, him having the elemental natures in stock far shows the difference since his father only learned one up until age 16, and gained the rest through Rikudou powers.





MasterORB said:


> He makes him look like a good kid that worries about is sister like Itachi did before the massacre and has well for him to look like a spoiler brat.


Well I think it's just common for older siblings to worry about their younger siblings. It's just that there are not many sibling relationships fleshed out.

But I see your point anyway if they decide to focus on their relationship like this.



MasterORB said:


> Still has a personality like Naruto.


I think the movie did a great job at illustrating how different he was from his father. He's lazy and unmotivated, whereas his father worked his entire life to prove and better himself. He's spoiled and selfish, whereas Naruto was unfortunate and selfless. He doesn't like showing affection, whereas Naruto was affectionate. He's grumpy and moody, whereas Naruto was cheery and kind. He's a prodigy who everybody has expectations for, whereas nobody believed in Naruto and expected him to fail.

I made something a while back, this might help your insight on the matter.


*Spoiler*: __ 




Boruto is lazy and unmotivated


*Spoiler*: __ 









Naruto has always categorized has a hard worker. Never lazy, and he always worked hard towards his goal, even if he was a quote on quote 'loser'.


*Spoiler*: __ 









What's worse for Boruto is that not only does he avoid hard work, but his entire mindset is strongly based on short cuts to get answers/solutions, rather than to personally figure it out/work it out himself. Hell the kid would rather use mods/cheat codes in video games than to level it up himself.


*Spoiler*: __ 










While his father believes in the exact opposite.

*Spoiler*: __ 








Then there's the fact that Boruto gives up rather too easily, when the situation becomes even the tiniest bit difficult.


*Spoiler*: __ 








While Naruto's entire character is based on 'never giving up'


*Spoiler*: __ 



















MasterORB said:


> Come on really he's gonna be a special one like is father if this manga continues.


I can't say. Naruto lost his core message as the manga continued, Boruto didn't really have that. I'd dare say that Boruto started off negatively, in fact most people dislike his attitude largely. Especially Naruto fan's in general because they watched their 'hero' grow up and see his son disrespect him.

From the Movie's ending perspective he matured and grew, but that's all we saw. Unless Boruto regresses back to a brat, he's obviously just going to improve overtime. Whether the flash forward is any indication, he might even be more realistic or stoic than Naruto was.

We can only cross our fingers that largely most of the complications Naruto faced on his road to becoming Hokage won't impact Boruto as well since he only wants to support. As long as Boruto doesn't pardon murders and says that he thinks baby killers are awesome people, I can't say that he won't be worse off.

THO I won't lie and say that the Naruto series is not shit. IT so is, however Kishimoto not taking care of it right now gives it a small percent of hope, art aside.

Who knows they might surprise us, my expectations are low though.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> Does that kind of goal make characters alike? I tend to think that if a character chooses a path, it won't overly consume their character.
> 
> For instance we have many characters in the Manga who for better or worse, have strived to be Hokage. Yet, not all of these characters are 'alike'.


Nowaki/Obito/Kushina were Naruto clones to the very own core, only one die young and the other turn evil and last one is the female version of Naruto.



Indra said:


> Well... I'm not really sure what to say. I won't force why he's this and that -- But I will say this. Kushina stated Naruto's personality, more so what would of happened if they were both alive.
> 
> Naruto came out exactly the same as she predicted On that note, they are largely different outside of being brats.
> 
> ...


You could say is a random thing to say but what if is parents were alive when he was 12 years-old, would he be the same.



Indra said:


> By the manga standards he stated he could utilize three elemental natures, learned shuriken jutsu under Sasuke's guidance, and learned to do a Rasengan variant which is unlike his father's version. Before you question his ninjutsu usage, mind you I said he could utilize their natures, not form jutsu with them or has stated jutsu. Regardless if that matter is true or not, him having the elemental natures in stock far shows the difference since his father only learned one up until age 16, and gained the rest through Rikudou powers.



But Naruto master his only elemental Nature by the same age of 16 and create a new technique from it and master the sage mode, Boruto never manage that and he only got taught by Sasuke trowing Shuriken, not even the Rasengan, it was like Naruto that learn from Jiraiya. He learn nothing. Boruto only has the trowing Rasengan and even that isn't that original since Naruto can trow it has well by the form of the Rasenshuriken.



Indra said:


> I think the movie did a great job at illustrating how different he was from his father. He's lazy and unmotivated, whereas his father worked his entire life to prove and better himself. He's spoiled and selfish, whereas Naruto was unfortunate and selfless. He doesn't like showing affection, whereas Naruto was affectionate. He's grumpy and moody, whereas Naruto was cheery and kind. He's a prodigy who everybody has expectations for, whereas nobody believed in Naruto and expected him to fail.
> 
> I made something a while back, this might help your insight on the matter.
> 
> ...


But Naruto was lazy has well before he got any motivation after chapter one, Naruto sleep during classes, always making ruckus, talking big, running way from classes, never listen to is teachers, look for example before the Neji fight if it wasn't for Hinata he would lose is entire motivation even in the written test of the chinnin exam Naruto was starting to give up.  




Indra said:


> I can't say. Naruto lost his core message as the manga continued, Boruto didn't really have that. I'd dare say that Boruto started off negatively, in fact most people dislike his attitude largely. Especially Naruto fan's in general because they watched their 'hero' grow up and see his son disrespect him.
> 
> From the Movie's ending perspective he matured and grew, but that's all we saw. Unless Boruto regresses back to a brat, he's obviously just going to improve overtime. Whether the flash forward is any indication, he might even be more realistic or stoic than Naruto was.
> 
> ...



But he will be a chosen one why, we are talking about a manga that had to reduce panels of certain character to be less popular, and try to made the main character the end of be all. This manga is call Boruto and only he have right to save the day, and the writers will continue that trend no matter what. Like many mangas before when the main character isn't that popular they try to reduce other character panel time to a minimum so the main character to be popular.


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> Nowaki/Obito/Kushina were Naruto clones to the very own core, only one die young and the other turn evil and last one is the female version of Naruto.


Remember what I said, 'not all of them are alike'. Even if you point out a few kids who share similar traits, although the only one's that work would be Nawaki/Obito. I do think Kushina was different despite them both being brash, especially since she gave up on her Hokage dream soon after falling in love with Minato.

Regardless there's far more Hokage candidates who are different; Mainly the Uchiha's (bar Obito), the Hokage's before him, and Sarada.

Konohamaru too is another Naruto-like clone 




MasterORB said:


> You could say is a random thing to say but what if is parents were alive when he was 12 years-old, would he be the same.


Well we just established that from the point of view Kishimoto illustrated through one of his characters, his personality would of been exactly the same as he would of been now. Just less mature in some areas due to him having no one but himself really, in contrast to him being born with parents in this 'unlikely scenario'.

Anything other than that would be just ignoring the fact itself. It's implied nothing would of changed, saying it would have despite the fact itself is just plain ignorance, wouldn't it? Unless you have some physical evidence to back the claim from the manga itself rather than your opinion vs. Manga fact.

Which is something I hate to argue. Having an opinion is fair and understandable, but when I actually bring words from the author himself. Why argue it when that became the fact instead of two opinions arguing it out?



MasterORB said:


> But Naruto master his only elemental Nature by the same age of 16 and create a new technique from it and master the sage mode, Boruto never manage that and he only got taught by Sasuke trowing Shuriken, not even the Rasengan, it was like Naruto that learn from Jiraiya. He learn nothing. Boruto only has the trowing Rasengan and even that isn't that original since Naruto can trow it has well by the form of the Rasenshuriken.


Right but is it not just an excuse? Naruto was taught these things after he became seasoned - matured a bit. Like you said, he was sixteen years old, and being trained.

Boruto learned three elemental natures, no one taught him this. Before you ask me, didn't Naruto say 'Konohamaru, what are you teaching him?' -- It was in regard to Boruto saying that 'I don't even have to train, and I don't need team work work' blah blah (ethics, rather than him actually tutoring him).

Yes, everything I stated Boruto learned. In fact you will find all of the training scenes bit by bit in the Manga. On that note, Boruto learned his Rasengan variant by himself too. Konohamaru was teaching how to make a normal Rasengan, and Boruto himself was unconsciously making it different.

Off-Topic Rasengan throw

*Spoiler*: __ 



Naruto needed to throw his Rasengan, because it was physically hurting him due to him being near the blast radius when he used it. He became able to do it later through Sage Mode, and when he obtained RIkudou power, it became easier to do in base. Boruto just threw it because he never actually witnessed the Rasengan in action before, believe it or not. The first time I noticed it I believe was when Konohamaru launched one at a house in the beginning of the Movie on accident.

Which is why I assume Boruto 'throws' his Rasengan when he first creates it.









MasterORB said:


> But Naruto was lazy has well before he got any motivation after chapter one, Naruto sleep during classes, always making ruckus, talking big, running way from classes, never listen to is teachers, look for example before the Neji fight if it wasn't for Hinata he would lose is entire motivation even in the written test of the chinnin exam Naruto was starting to give up.




What?

> Naruto never sleeps in class. Don't believe filler episodes, in the Manga Naruto was awake.
> Naruto never disrupted a class either, he talks back the teacher and does not listen, but that more contributes to the fact that he was struggling and was a HUGE brat because of his surroundings (not having a family, everyone treating him like he wasn't important, etc)
> Naruto talking big has nothing to do with him being lazy or any of your points, honestly.
> Naruto not always listening to his teachers had more to do with his rebelling attitude vs. him being lazy at all

Dude you really need to read back on the Chunin Exams, you missed some critical parts!

"If it was not for Hinata he would of lost his entire motivation to even write the written test of the Exams"


*Spoiler*: __ 









When did Hinata give him motivation? She wanted to help him, but Naruto could not solve any of these equations because he just was not able to. This has nothing to do with him giving up either, especially if you understand the next scenes:


*Spoiler*: __ 














Upon learning that there was a tenth question which determined whether or not you failed, Naruto didn't need to write out the exam anymore. Afterwards the teacher tried to use reverse psychology in order to pick out the ninjas who were scared of progress, Naruto was the one who stood his ground despite not having answered one single question.

This isn't laziness either. There's a large difference between being capable to do something and not doing it, and just not being capable of doing something. Which you confused for some reason 



MasterORB said:


> But he will be a chosen one why, we are talking about a manga that had to reduce panels of certain character to be less popular, and try to made the main character the end of be all. This manga is call Boruto and only he have right to save the day, and the writers will continue that trend no matter what. Like many mangas before when the main character isn't that popular they try to reduce other character panel time to a minimum so the main character to be popular.


Even if for the sake of the argument, that Boruto somehow becomes a 'chosen one' -- It won't negatively or positively impact his character like it did Naruto because of his morals. Because Naruto did not believe in destiny deciding your path, and it fractured his character a bit when a path for him was already predetermined. However, Boruto on the other hand starts off completely opposite in regards to his ethnics, and he does not have any viewpoint on destiny.

Regardless Boruto being the main character, it's clear he'll be important to the saving of current conflicts of the story. We cannot run away from it. Most of the problems are determined by leadership though, a lot of Naruto's promises were put on the floor because it was something he wanted to do when he finally became leader. When he had authority.  Whether Boruto saves the day, people, or a VIllage, he can't promise them anything considering his goal has nothing to do with leadership or authority.

And on that note, the authors made it very clear what type of story they were telling. It's the continuation of Naruto's next generation - with Boruto being the main character.

"This is my story..."

Was the headline of the monologue. This time the authors are not lying to you, but I'm not saying that the other characters won't be important. But before you complain about the fact, know that the authors told you straight off the bat that the focus of the continuation is Boruto's story, rather than a story of the World.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> Remember what I said, 'not all of them are alike'. Even if you point out a few kids who share similar traits, although the only one's that work would be Nawaki/Obito. I do think Kushina was different despite them both being brash, especially since she gave up on her Hokage dream soon after falling in love with Minato.
> 
> Regardless there's far more Hokage candidates who are different; Mainly the Uchiha's (bar Obito), the Hokage's before him, and Sarada.
> 
> Konohamaru too is another Naruto-like clone


You use 'alike' so I thought that. But In my opinion Boruto is almost exctly like is father even to the point of having to get attention of family in this case is father only. 



Indra said:


> Well we just established that from the point of view Kishimoto illustrated through one of his characters, his personality would of been exactly the same as he would of been now. Just less mature in some areas due to him having no one but himself really, in contrast to him being born with parents in this 'unlikely scenario'.
> 
> Anything other than that would be just ignoring the fact itself. It's implied nothing would of changed, saying it would have despite the fact itself is just plain ignorance, wouldn't it? Unless you have some physical evidence to back the claim from the manga itself rather than your opinion vs. Manga fact.
> 
> Which is something I hate to argue. Having an opinion is fair and understandable, but when I actually bring words from the author himself. Why argue it when that became the fact instead of two opinions arguing it out?


But when you don't have really great parents is son could happen to turn to a jerk has well.


Indra said:


> Right but is it not just an excuse? Naruto was taught these things after he became seasoned - matured a bit. Like you said, he was sixteen years old, and being trained.
> 
> Boruto learned three elemental natures, no one taught him this. Before you ask me, didn't Naruto say 'Konohamaru, what are you teaching him?' -- It was in regard to Boruto saying that 'I don't even have to train, and I don't need team work work' blah blah (ethics, rather than him actually tutoring him).
> 
> ...


Right Naruto is so season fighter that didn't know how to dispel a simple genjutsu from Itachi. And even Boruto couldn't do a simple rasengan, he did a tiny one where Naruto at 12 years old did a normal one against Kabuto. Now we don't know what specific thing that Boruto did to the Rasengan to be able to trow it..   

About the Rasengan

*Spoiler*: __ 




Is use against Kakuzo like a normal rasengan, the way i see is that Naruto didn't had is own chakra besides is wind element to the rasengan to make him trow.





Indra said:


> What?
> 
> > Naruto never sleeps in class. Don't believe filler episodes, in the Manga Naruto was awake.
> > Naruto never disrupted a class either, he talks back the teacher and does not listen, but that more contributes to the fact that he was struggling and was a HUGE brat because of his surroundings (not having a family, everyone treating him like he wasn't important, etc)
> ...


Really what did is suppose to mean:
[3] 
[3] 
If wasn't the clown class he and train has he did he would probably been has better has Sasuke.   



Indra said:


> Dude you really need to read back on the Chunin Exams, you missed some critical parts!
> 
> "If it was not for Hinata he would of lost his entire motivation to even write the written test of the Exams"
> 
> ...


Naruto could have fail, he only took a chance, and in that exam he lost motivation when he didn't know the questions.
And has well he lost his motivation when he was about to fight Neji.



Indra said:


> Even if for the sake of the argument, that Boruto somehow becomes a 'chosen one' -- It won't negatively or positively impact his character like it did Naruto because of his morals. Because Naruto did not believe in destiny deciding your path, and it fractured his character a bit when a path for him was already predetermined. However, Boruto on the other hand starts off completely opposite in regards to his ethnics, and he does not have any viewpoint on destiny.
> 
> Regardless Boruto being the main character, it's clear he'll be important to the saving of current conflicts of the story. We cannot run away from it. Most of the problems are determined by leadership though, a lot of Naruto's promises were put on the floor because it was something he wanted to do when he finally became leader. When he had authority.  Whether Boruto saves the day, people, or a VIllage, he can't promise them anything considering his goal has nothing to do with leadership or authority.
> 
> ...



Oh Boruto promise to protect the village but he will do it from the shadows in which is bullshit because he appear in a tv program in the movie so much to be in the shadows. They are trying to make Boruto being a character that resolves everything by himself and not teamwork, even in the fight against Kaguya had teamwork even against Momoshiki had the 5 kage doing team work.


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> You use 'alike' so I thought that. But In my opinion Boruto is almost exctly like is father even to the point of having to get attention of family in this case is father only.


Well I'm not sure. I don't think they are - I would like to see how though.




MasterORB said:


> But when you don't have really great parents is son could happen to turn to a jerk has well.


Sometimes the greater the parents or legacy, the harder the downfall. A lot of the higher characters sometimes are placed in their shadow. In Naruto's case he was lucky enough to be brought up without knowing much about his parents (not saying this is a positive, but for legacy standards he matured before he was placed in their 'shadow'). But characters like Sasuke, whom was forced into his brother's shadow (even as a child he was trying to get his father to notice him), had a different outcome.




MasterORB said:


> Right Naruto is so season fighter that didn't know how to dispel a simple genjutsu from Itachi. And even Boruto couldn't do a simple rasengan, he did a tiny one where Naruto at 12 years old did a normal one against Kabuto. Now we don't know what specific thing that Boruto did to the Rasengan to be able to trow it..


Well, Naruto can dispel Genjutsu. The problem lies in your sentence, 'a simple genjutsu from *Itachi' *there's nothing stated in the Manga that Itachi casts Genjutsu that a normal person can just escape from. Sadly Naruto's forte is not Genjutsu breaking or at the current time, precise chakra control. He later improved his usage through mastering FRS and later on Sage Mode though.




MasterORB said:


> About the Rasengan
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...




*Spoiler*: __ 




Well I made he used two clones; One to apply his chakra, and one to apply the wind chakra. It probably didn't occur to him at the point of time that he needed to throw the Rasengan because he always had used it in close quarters.







MasterORB said:


> Really what did is suppose to mean:
> [3]
> [3]
> If wasn't the clown class he and train has he did he would probably been has better has Sasuke.


Naruto was the class clown but it wasn't because he was lazy. If you put yourself in his shoes you'll see why he sometimes acted out in a bad way, but that des not mean he never trained behind the scenes. He was always trying:



It's a reason why Hinata started to love him I suppose, despite the fact that no one believed in him, and the fact that he was a failure ... He never gave up or 'stopped' trying to improve himself. Hence why he inspired her to do the same.





MasterORB said:


> Naruto could have fail, he only took a chance, and in that exam he lost motivation when he didn't know the questions.
> And has well he lost his motivation when he was about to fight Neji.


He could have failed, but he never lost motivation. You're confusing it, Naruto didn't answer the questions because he was not smart. You can't blame him not answering the question because he's lazy.

That would have meant that Naruto knew how to answer the question, but chose not to. But that's not the case, it was very clear from the moment that Naruto was confused about the questions because they were too difficult for him.

Naruto never lost motivation to fight Neji. He was feeling uncharacteristically depressed about the upcoming match.


*Spoiler*: __ 














MasterORB said:


> Oh Boruto promise to protect the village but he will do it from the shadows in which is bullshit because he appear in a tv program in the movie so much to be in the shadows. They are trying to make Boruto being a character that resolves everything by himself and not teamwork, even in the fight against Kaguya had teamwork even against Momoshiki had the 5 kage doing team work.


...Er

He appeared in a single TV interview means that him protecting in the shadows is bull-shit. Seriously? I wonder sometimes...

Anyway back on topic. Boruto stated he wanted to grow into that kind of ninja, not that that he was one already. The main problem here is that you view the character as a single thing, but lack the understanding of what he grows into objectively.

If you paid attention the story (or watched the Movie) you'll notice that Boruto started off as a character who believed in doing things alone, and despised team work, but he grew into a character who understood why those ethics were important. There's nothing in the Movie that Boruto did 'alone' - He had his Master's assistance, they worked together to defeat Momoshiki. And he had his father's power backing him up. The only thing he actually did by himself I believe in regards to the final is pushing Momoshiki down with his Rasengan, but on the greater scheme that was not much.

Even towards the finale of the Movie, Boruto and his team mates work together to stop the Panda unlike Boruto trying to to take credit for it himself -- And in regards to his goal, Boruto wants to support Sarada when she becomes Hokage, being her right hand man. Someone who is characterized as 'doing things alone without help' would never devout his future into helping someone else.

Unless I missed something.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> Sometimes the greater the parents or legacy, the harder the downfall. A lot of the higher characters sometimes are placed in their shadow. In Naruto's case he was lucky enough to be brought up without knowing much about his parents (not saying this is a positive, but for legacy standards he matured before he was placed in their 'shadow'). But characters like Sasuke, whom was forced into his brother's shadow (even as a child he was trying to get his father to notice him), had a different outcome.


But Sasuke would never be like Boruto, Sasuke wanted is father and brother attention but was respectful about it, even thought he wanna be like the two of them, and he was very friendly kid.



Indra said:


> Well, Naruto can dispel Genjutsu. The problem lies in your sentence, 'a simple genjutsu from *Itachi' *there's nothing stated in the Manga that Itachi casts Genjutsu that a normal person can just escape from. Sadly Naruto's forte is not Genjutsu breaking or at the current time, precise chakra control. He later improved his usage through mastering FRS and later on Sage Mode though.


Sakura dispel Itachi Genjutsu has well Kakashi that couldn't dispel the tsukiyomi and Chio.



Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 



He need other type of chakra to trow it if not he would not because he used one clone for control the rotation and stabilize the Rasengan  the other clone is to add wind type chakra 





Indra said:


> Naruto was the class clown but it wasn't because he was lazy. If you put yourself in his shoes you'll see why he sometimes acted out in a bad way, but that des not mean he never trained behind the scenes. He was always trying:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a reason why Hinata started to love him I suppose, despite the fact that no one believed in him, and the fact that he was a failure ... He never gave up or 'stopped' trying to improve himself. Hence why he inspired her to do the same.


So why he has a kid didn't become has strong has Sasuke who was constantly training, there's be something odd out. 



Indra said:


> He could have failed, but he never lost motivation. You're confusing it, Naruto didn't answer the questions because he was not smart. You can't blame him not answering the question because he's lazy.
> 
> That would have meant that Naruto knew how to answer the question, but chose not to. But that's not the case, it was very clear from the moment that Naruto was confused about the questions because they were too difficult for him.
> 
> ...


He was lazy because he could try what is friends did, try to cheat, but since he was dumb enough and didn't bother nothing.
And with Neji, Naruto was felling depress if he had the ability to do i, only Hinata talk to him is what made him think that he could do it.    



Indra said:


> ...Er
> 
> He appeared in a single TV interview means that him protecting in the shadows is bull-shit. Seriously? I wonder sometimes...
> 
> ...


So why in the flash forward is alone, facing the enemy. it should  been the team Konohamaru stand against that enemy. And Boruto by the way i'm reading his gonna is doing things by is own.


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> But Sasuke would never be like Boruto, Sasuke wanted is father and brother attention but was respectful about it, even thought he wanna be like the two of them, and he was very friendly kid.


Who said anything about Sasuke being like Boruto? I was talking about how legacy can affect certain characters and sometimes benefit other characters when they don't have a shadow cast over them.




MasterORB said:


> Sakura dispel Itachi Genjutsu has well Kakashi that couldn't dispel the tsukiyomi and Chio.


Sakura and Chiyo dispelled it for him.

Regardless Sakura's specialty is chakra control, and I would say that she was far better at it until Naruto managed to make FRS.





MasterORB said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> He need other type of chakra to trow it if not he would not because he used one clone for control the rotation and stabilize the Rasengan  the other clone is to add wind type chakra



*Spoiler*: __ 




Well I think he needed Sage Mode to throw that high density chakra because it was a lot, but I don't think he needed another type of chakra to throw it. He does it in base now since he's body become more adapt and durable overtime.






MasterORB said:


> So why he has a kid didn't become has strong has Sasuke who was constantly training, there's be something odd out.


Naruto was not that taented. They have said it a thousand times


*Spoiler*: __ 










Just used these scans to make it easier, but despite his efforts, he would never be as talented or strong as Sasuke was. But with cooperation on his side (as in masters/teachers/Kyuubi) he was able to surpass his limits.




MasterORB said:


> He was lazy because he could try what is friends did, try to cheat, but since he was dumb enough and didn't bother nothing.
> And with Neji, Naruto was felling depress if he had the ability to do i, only Hinata talk to him is what made him think that he could do it.



What? That literally makes no sense.

"He was lazy because he could try that's what his friends did, try to cheat"



> Naruto did not want to cheat, he didn't believe in it.
> Naruto did not want to get her in trouble.

Naruto wasn't half the ninja most of the children were, like Sasuke, Neji, Gaara, etc,. He wasn't able to cheat and not get caught, if he did cheat it would of consisted of him trying to look at Hinata's paper without getting caught. In accordance to someone like Gaara using a sand ability barely undetected, or Sasuke using the Sharingan. He just simply did not have the tools or the experience - The reason why Naruto did not cheat is because he wasn't capable to without getting caught (he didn't want Hinata to get in trouble either), the reason why Naruto could not answer the question is because he wasn't smart enough to. It's really that simple.

Nothing to do with Naruto being lazy.

With Neji he was feeling depressed because he was thinking of his own failures, especially with an opponent like Neji whom was hailed as the Genius of his year (note that Sasuke was the Genius of the rookies). So he was feeling underwhelmed, mind us at that time no one really believed he would win at all.

These are just realistic circumstances that happened to him. We would all feel this way in his shoes, this has nothing to do with being lazy at all.





MasterORB said:


> So why in the flash forward is alone, facing the enemy. it should  been the team Konohamaru stand against that enemy. And Boruto by the way i'm reading his gonna is doing things by is own.


Boruto understanding that team work is important, and coming to terms with training - Has absolutely NOTHING to do with him facing the enemy by himself.

That would be like saying why is Naruto fighting Pain by himself when he believes in team work as something vital and important? HE'S A LIAR.

See the problem with that thinking?

The reason why Boruto is fighting the enemy alone (with reasons we can't assume yet) is most likely because:

He's the only person there

or

He's the only person strong enough.

However him fighting Kawaki has nothing to do with Boruto believing that team work is incorrect and him wanting to do everything alone.

You might as well call out every single shinobi who has fought an opponent by themselves (despite the fact that they use team work) and call them out on it too. lol

Because if so we might have to start creating a list of _liars _right now before the day ends so that we can finish by the morning!


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> Who said anything about Sasuke being like Boruto? I was talking about how legacy can affect certain characters and sometimes benefit other characters when they don't have a shadow cast over them.


I was giving a example, and Boruto if he wanted he should had the burden of being the Hokage son and Grandson, he didn't it, look at Sarada and Mitsuki for example look at they legacy, are they bother about it. The legacy of others is never a good things because you always have that expectation.



Indra said:


> Sakura and Chiyo dispelled it for him.
> 
> Regardless Sakura's specialty is chakra control, and I would say that she was far better at it until Naruto managed to make FRS.



I think Sakura chakra control is better of the three at chakra control.




Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




I think not he still uses Kurama chakra, to do the same Jutsu even the rasengan he sometimes use Kurama chakre 





Indra said:


> Naruto was not that taented. They have said it a thousand times
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Naruto was always talented, he master the sage mode better than Jiraiya, he master Kurama chakra, master the Rasengan, he master the Kagebushin, if you said he was a slow learner that i agree with that. And everything was handed in a silver plate. 


Indra said:


> What? That literally makes no sense.
> 
> "He was lazy because he could try that's what his friends did, try to cheat"
> 
> ...


Yes it make him lazy, because he never try to learn anything by reading book, etc. He never train enough to reach that level, where for example Chouji even cheat and Shikamaru who is smart enough did cheat.  



Indra said:


> These are just realistic circumstances that happened to him. We would all feel this way in his shoes, this has nothing to do with being lazy at all.


I never felt that way, if i fail at something, is my own fault because i was lazy and didn't work hard enough.



Indra said:


> Boruto understanding that team work is important, and coming to terms with training - Has absolutely NOTHING to do with him facing the enemy by himself.
> 
> That would be like saying why is Naruto fighting Pain by himself when he believes in team work as something vital and important? HE'S A LIAR.
> 
> ...



But still makes him the special one that can be that guy, Naruto Try to beat Pain by himself and fail at it. He need the help of the frogs, Hinata, Kurama and his father, to defeat Pain. Naruto always need people to defeat someone.


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> I was giving a example, and Boruto if he wanted he should had the burden of being the Hokage son and Grandson, he didn't it, look at Sarada and Mitsuki for example look at they legacy, are they bother about it. The legacy of others is never a good things because you always have that expectation.


That's most of the narrative talking anyway I'd assume. Everyone expects great things from him, even his team mates. In example, Sarada does not really have a legacy like that. Her parents are strong ninja in the World, but these are not things she doubts herself on. Same with Mitsuki, rather what he knows about Orochimaru, he wants to follow his own path.

Not really sure if he deals with his father's shadow, especially if he's actually under the grandson whom his father killed (Hiruzen). Though I would criticize the writer if we do not see Sarada finding out more about the Uchiha Clan and ponders about it, and if Mitsuki finds out just how cruel Orochimaru was before he became a 'parent'.





MasterORB said:


> I think Sakura chakra control is better of the three at chakra control.


Currently the best Chakra Control feat in the Manga would be (outside of Hagoromo's) is Sasuke when he was converting the bijuu chakra into his Susano'o. Kurama paralleled him to the Sage in it's control.

When both Naruto/Sasuke received Rikudou buffs, they surpassed the normal limits. However, in regards to average ninja, Sakura should hail supreme in Chakra Control for sure.





MasterORB said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 




Not sure if he still applies Kurama chakra's to use these jutsu, especially in the future in base. I just know that he's able to perform extraordinary feats now which were deemed impossible before.







MasterORB said:


> Naruto was always talented, he master the sage mode better than Jiraiya, he master Kurama chakra, master the Rasengan, he master the Kagebushin, if you said he was a slow learner that i agree with that. And everything was handed in a silver plate.


Well I wanted to talk about this subject, Naruto isn't really talented at all. Everything you mentioned was through the cooperation of others, and loads of help.

Naruto learning the Kage Bunshin
> The technique itself isn't super hard to learn, but you need a certain amount of chakra to utilize this technique to the full potential. It's why most Genin ninja cannot create full shadow clones, because it takes half of their chakra and splits it (when their reserves are not that high anyway). Naruto has larger reserves than a Jonin (as a Genin), and his stamina is just as large.

Most of the reasons for this is due to Minato creating the five trigam seal in order for Naruto's own pool and Kurama's to mix, so that his son's chakra can not only increase, but become stronger as well. Remember this as we continue.

Naruto mastering the Rasengan
> Yes he learned the technique after a month's hard work. Boruto learned it after a few days. This shows that Naruto learning the Rasengan was through dedication, and struggle. But nothing to do with pure talent by itself.

Naruto mastering the Rasen Shuriken
> Naruto (who was being supervised by Kakashi) was speeding up the training with shadow clones, another feat which was only possible due to his unnaturally high chakra pool (cough cough) and his large stamina (Uzumaki genes). The only reason why he was able to perform this feat was due to these overwhelming circumstances. Not because of this spontaneous talent that just appeared out of no where.

Naruto mastering Sage Mode
> Again, he needed large reserves, larger than what he would have had if Minato never made the seal function in the way it did. Plus Naruto was using a training method which again was used in order to speed up the process normally. Pa explained that the oil that he was slathering Naruto with would attract nature energy, and the point of using this method was so that Naruto could feel the sensation of the energy gathering onto his skin, and soon enough he'll be able to gather the natural energy on his own.

Every example I mentioned, Naruto managed to accomplish because of these overwhelming circumstances that were helping him before he even learned how to walk, talk, and even use Ninjutsu.





MasterORB said:


> Yes it make him lazy, because he never try to learn anything by reading book, etc. He never train enough to reach that level, where for example Chouji even cheat and Shikamaru who is smart enough did cheat.


That's a result of his personal struggles. Naruto was too busy trying to get the Village to acknowledge him, rather than for him to sit down and read books. He was constantly belittled and he did not understand why, he wasn't just going to the library with all of these conflicts happening. And after he became a ninja he had no time for such things.

Naruto was always training though. Like I said before, he did not want to cheat, and could not cheat.

Has nothing to do with laziness. He's the least lazy shinobi in the entire Manga, no excuse can change that statement. That's the basis of his character, someone who never gives up without a fight.




MasterORB said:


> I never felt that way, if i fail at something, is my own fault because i was lazy and didn't work hard enough.


I understand, but Naruto never failed yet. The reason why he was depressed was because he knew he was a failure going up against a genius, he was ... anxious, or scared would be the better word.

However he never 'gave up' --- He just was not completely sure.





MasterORB said:


> But still makes him the special one that can be that guy, Naruto Try to beat Pain by himself and fail at it. He need the help of the frogs, Hinata, Kurama and his father, to defeat Pain. Naruto always need people to defeat someone.


The main character is always special in some sort of way, that's the main character. Regardless Naruto had help from the summons but that's his own jutsu he's using, overall he fought Pain alone with his abilities. Hinata going to rescue him was something he did not count on, nor did he ask for her help. Plus that doesn't take away from the fact that he went in and fought pain without wanting or asking for help from anyone else.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 15, 2017)

Indra said:


> That's most of the narrative talking anyway I'd assume. Everyone expects great things from him, even his team mates. In example, Sarada does not really have a legacy like that. Her parents are strong ninja in the World, but these are not things she doubts herself on. Same with Mitsuki, rather what he knows about Orochimaru, he wants to follow his own path.
> 
> Not really sure if he deals with his father's shadow, especially if he's actually under the grandson whom his father killed (Hiruzen). Though I would criticize the writer if we do not see Sarada finding out more about the Uchiha Clan and ponders about it, and if Mitsuki finds out just how cruel Orochimaru was before he became a 'parent'.


Sarada has a legacy on her back she the daughter of the Last Uchiha alive and one of the most powerfull ninja in that world and he was train by the Six Hokage, not only that she carries the Uchiha symbol in which were one of the founder of Konoha, not only that most of the ninja that came out of that clan were extremely powerfull, and from her mom she is the apprentice of the Six and Fifth Hokage, probably the most powerful Konoichi alive and one of the best medic alive. If that isn't legacy i don't know.
And Mitsuki is the son of one of the three Sannin, who is a suppose war hero, and Hokage candidate, and immortal guy, and is basically a living legend.   



Indra said:


> Currently the best Chakra Control feat in the Manga would be (outside of Hagoromo's) is Sasuke when he was converting the bijuu chakra into his Susano'o. Kurama paralleled him to the Sage in it's control.
> 
> When both Naruto/Sasuke received Rikudou buffs, they surpassed the normal limits. However, in regards to average ninja, Sakura should hail supreme in Chakra Control for sure.



True, i give you that.



Indra said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True.


Indra said:


> Well I wanted to talk about this subject, Naruto isn't really talented at all. Everything you mentioned was through the cooperation of others, and loads of help.
> 
> Naruto learning the Kage Bunshin
> > The technique itself isn't super hard to learn, but you need a certain amount of chakra to utilize this technique to the full potential. It's why most Genin ninja cannot create full shadow clones, because it takes half of their chakra and splits it (when their reserves are not that high anyway). Naruto has larger reserves than a Jonin (as a Genin), and his stamina is just as large.
> ...


But he add the Kurama chakra who help him achieve those things, not only that he had the best teachers to help him achieve that, not only that, you need some talent to master something, like the rasenShuriken, he did something that is father couldn't do was to add a nature to the rasengan, and even master the sage mode something has well is father and godfather couldn't do. 
Is like Rock Lee who was suppose and untalented guy, but then we discover he is actually talent enough, but only at taijutsu.   



Indra said:


> That's a result of his personal struggles. Naruto was too busy trying to get the Village to acknowledge him, rather than for him to sit down and read books. He was constantly belittled and he did not understand why, he wasn't just going to the library with all of these conflicts happening. And after he became a ninja he had no time for such things.
> 
> Naruto was always training though. Like I said before, he did not want to cheat, and could not cheat.
> 
> Has nothing to do with laziness. He's the least lazy shinobi in the entire Manga, no excuse can change that statement. That's the basis of his character, someone who never gives up without a fight.


I still think he is lazy, because instead of getting the village notice him by being a prankster, he could be a respectful Shinobi, and people could respecting more, look at Sasuke he was always training and always got respect from other people even from Jonins.  



Indra said:


> I understand, but Naruto never failed yet. The reason why he was depressed was because he knew he was a failure going up against a genius, he was ... anxious, or scared would be the better word.
> 
> However he never 'gave up' --- He just was not completely sure.


He was almost giving up if Hinata didn't give him a talk.



Indra said:


> The main character is always special in some sort of way, that's the main character. Regardless Naruto had help from the summons but that's his own jutsu he's using, overall he fought Pain alone with his abilities. Hinata going to rescue him was something he did not count on, nor did he ask for her help. Plus that doesn't take away from the fact that he went in and fought pain without wanting or asking for help from anyone else.


But he screw up and almost got capture, if it wasn't for Hinata, Kurama and Minato, and you could say Jiraiya, so he could relate to Nagato.
That's why I think Boruto will be the one who always the bad guy, and probably we will see more of it's feats than Sarada, who want's to be an Hokage..


----------



## Indra (Jan 15, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> Sarada has a legacy on her back she the daughter of the Last Uchiha alive and one of the most powerfull ninja in that world and he was train by the Six Hokage, not only that she carries the Uchiha symbol in which were one of the founder of Konoha, not only that most of the ninja that came out of that clan were extremely powerfull, and from her mom she is the apprentice of the Six and Fifth Hokage, probably the most powerful Konoichi alive and one of the best medic alive. If that isn't legacy i don't know.
> And Mitsuki is the son of one of the three Sannin, who is a suppose war hero, and Hokage candidate, and immortal guy, and is basically a living legend.


None of which you said is actually a problem that bothers them indirectly. When we are talking about legacies, we are not talking about fan made conflicts. But actual conflicts the story showcased is troubling the character:

Sarada: Had an issue with her father not being there.
Mitsuki: Had an overall issue with Orochimaru and older Mitsuki trying to deceive him in order to pick which side he wanted to go with.

Like I said before, if Sarada doesn't deal with the legacy of the Uchiha, then it's a problem on the writer. Same goes with Mitsuki in accordance to his own father's demons.

In example, not even Boruto knew about his father's troubled past in the Village. He knew Naruto was raised without parents, but he didn't know why, nor did he know he was a Jinchuriki. There are certain things that these children don't know, for better or worse. Most of their parents conflicts, legacies, are non existent to them. Boruto didn't even know his father was that powerful until he saw him in action, which is kind of ironic.

They don't know much.




MasterORB said:


> But he add the Kurama chakra who help him achieve those things, not only that he had the best teachers to help him achieve that, not only that, you need some talent to master something, like the rasenShuriken, he did something that is father couldn't do was to add a nature to the rasengan, and even master the sage mode something has well is father and godfather couldn't do.
> Is like Rock Lee who was suppose and untalented guy, but then we discover he is actually talent enough, but only at taijutsu.


I'm not indirectly saying that Naruto isn't talented, for sure Naruto isn't the complete loser that people paint him out to be. I'm just showing you that what Naruto accomplishes isn't through natural talent, but because of hard work, and circumstances that people paved a way for him on his way to greatness. Think back to what Hagoromo said about his son Ashura, and how he was able to match his older Genius brother.

"Through the help of others----"

THAT'S the basis of Naruto's power. Through the help of others, he's able to grow. Not because of talent indirectly. If we paint Naruto to Boruto who:

> Doesn't have the same high reserves
> Who wasn't trained for most of the things he accomplished

Then you can see that Naruto really is the hard worker who did his best thanks the people who surrounded his person (and the parents who died for him). Even when he didn't realize it.





MasterORB said:


> I still think he is lazy, because instead of getting the village notice him by being a prankster, he could be a respectful Shinobi, and people could respecting more, look at Sasuke he was always training and always got respect from other people even from Jonins.


I think Sasuke was respected among his peers for a larger reason than him just achieving good grades, he hailed from Konohagakure's oldest and one of their most respected Clan's, Uchiha. And Sasuke was rather a good looking and calm child, in contrast to Naruto who was a bit rough around the edges.

Sasuke being a Genius and doing well in school just attuned him to be the perfect child. In contrast to Naruto, he had a lot to live up for and his surroundings expected Sasuke to be just as talented as his brother, Itachi. Not to mention his father.

Naruto on the other hand ... everyone just expected him to fail. But he never stopped trying.

That's what makes him 'not lazy'.





MasterORB said:


> He was almost giving up if Hinata didn't give him a talk.


Where does Naruto say that he was about to give up? Naruto being depressed about the upcoming fight is not him 'giving up'.






MasterORB said:


> But he screw up and almost got capture, if it wasn't for Hinata, Kurama and Minato, and you could say Jiraiya, so he could relate to Nagato.
> That's why I think Boruto will be the one who always the bad guy, and probably we will see more of it's feats than Sarada, who want's to be an Hokage..


Right, but Naruto losing against Pain does not mean he didn't go in there and fight him alone as intended to. He was not strong enough, but that does not mean he didn't try.

Don't really think Boruto will be a bad guy, not sure. Most of the evil intentions come from that Kawaki guy, and Sarada's goal of becoming Hokage is kind of twisted compared to Naruto's.

Naruto wanted to surpass the the Hokage's before him. Sarada wants to share her love to the Village.

Two opposite goals.

Boruto wants to support Sarada, but a sideline to this is that Sasuke is training him who thinks he can become a greater ninja than his father.

So that indirect path brings him to power. Sarada will be strong no doubt by default because she will be Hokage. Although I cannot say for certain that she'll end up becoming the main source of power for the series.

Hard to say really, anything can happen, but based on the flash forward and like we've been talking. Boruto seems to be the one fighting the enemy here, and it's his story.

I wouldn't mind and I do hope that Sarada gets some time to shine as the future Hokage to kick some super power ass.

Mitsuki too.

THO to be fair we don't know what Sarada/Mitsuki/everyone else are doing, pretty sure not everyone is 'dead' lel. So there might be more enemies to fight, they were only showing us four pages so not everything was shown. >W >


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 16, 2017)

Indra said:


> None of which you said is actually a problem that bothers them indirectly. When we are talking about legacies, we are not talking about fan made conflicts. But actual conflicts the story showcased is troubling the character:
> 
> Sarada: Had an issue with her father not being there.
> Mitsuki: Had an overall issue with Orochimaru and older Mitsuki trying to deceive him in order to pick which side he wanted to go with.
> ...



But that's called small arc's to give objective for the main characters for Sarada is to be Hokage, for Mitsuki was find a way of live and for Boruto was to be a shinobi who work from the Shadows. Still there's no indication if the legacy of their parents will intervening with their children arc's, I want that because of Sarada to become a Hokage because is essential for her to know, and Mitsuki to find a way of live besides depending of Boruto.   




Indra said:


> I'm not indirectly saying that Naruto isn't talented, for sure Naruto isn't the complete loser that people paint him out to be. I'm just showing you that what Naruto accomplishes isn't through natural talent, but because of hard work, and circumstances that people paved a way for him on his way to greatness. Think back to what Hagoromo said about his son Ashura, and how he was able to match his older Genius brother.
> 
> "Through the help of others----"
> 
> ...



He need to be talented to master the Sage Mode and Kurama chakra, because you need talent to master chakra control, Boruto had to train like Naruto to achieve the rasengan, even the manga proves that even genius need to train to get powerful.



Indra said:


> I think Sasuke was respected among his peers for a larger reason than him just achieving good grades, he hailed from Konohagakure's oldest and one of their most respected Clan's, Uchiha. And Sasuke was rather a good looking and calm child, in contrast to Naruto who was a bit rough around the edges.
> 
> Sasuke being a Genius and doing well in school just attuned him to be the perfect child. In contrast to Naruto, he had a lot to live up for and his surroundings expected Sasuke to be just as talented as his brother, Itachi. Not to mention his father.
> 
> ...


But if Naruto went to classes and wasn't a nuisance to everyone and the class clown, probably we would be mores respectful to other peers, instead of being a joke.  




Indra said:


> Where does Naruto say that he was about to give up? Naruto being depressed about the upcoming fight is not him 'giving up'.


But when you are depressed, you want to give up on everything, trust me I know that feeling. 





Indra said:


> Right, but Naruto losing against Pain does not mean he didn't go in there and fight him alone as intended to. He was not strong enough, but that does not mean he didn't try.
> 
> Don't really think Boruto will be a bad guy, not sure. Most of the evil intentions come from that Kawaki guy, and Sarada's goal of becoming Hokage is kind of twisted compared to Naruto's.
> 
> ...


But what the flash forward only indicates that Boruto only could take on that guy. And we are talking from a franchise that only make the main character that's is really important look at the anime filler, and then look at the manga where they try to replace popular characters(Sasuke, Kakashi) with copies(Sai, Yamato).


----------



## Indra (Jan 16, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> But that's called small arc's to give objective for the main characters for Sarada is to be Hokage, for Mitsuki was find a way of live and for Boruto was to be a shinobi who work from the Shadows. Still there's no indication if the legacy of their parents will intervening with their children arc's, I want that because of Sarada to become a Hokage because is essential for her to know, and Mitsuki to find a way of live besides depending of Boruto.


Not sure man. The author has not given insight on any of these issues bothering the character ... so I'm having trouble arguing for them when their conflicts were all about 'parental' problems connecting to their objectives.

I really cannot look into the future, but I hope for the sake of writing that they learn to develop the characters better 






MasterORB said:


> He need to be talented to master the Sage Mode and Kurama chakra, because you need talent to master chakra control, Boruto had to train like Naruto to achieve the rasengan, even the manga proves that even genius need to train to get powerful.


It depends on how he mastered Sage Mode, he was being reliant on the sage oil, and his large reserves where necessary for that training. He needed talent/skill yes, but the majority of the training was heavily dependent on mechanisms Pa had to speed up the training faster because he could not learn it on his own.

Not sure about Kurama's chakra though. I don't really think there's anything stated that you need to be talented in order to master a Bijuu's chakra, even if we do count that as a fact, took Naruto a long time before he was considered a perfect Jinchuriki. And most what he learned was through the help of Killer Bee and his mother so that he could finally start utilizing the chakra by himself. Then PerfectJinchuriki came when Naruto and Kurama became 'friends' or comrades so to speak.

None of that really showcased Naruto being talented, but rather cooperating with other people in order for him to grow stronger.

S/N: Not really going to talk about the mess which is Jiraiya teaching Naruto how to use Bijuu chakra like one time. At the start of Shippuden he lost control so many times that it just drives me crazy. What the Hell did Jiraiya teach him despite the DB saying he learned 'control' - my ass.



MasterORB said:


> But if Naruto went to classes and wasn't a nuisance to everyone and the class clown, probably we would be mores respectful to other peers, instead of being a joke.


Nah. Naruto's antics were outside of class, and the fact that while in class, he couldn't perform well. Think back to Iruka trying to get to Naruto to summon one clone, and he failed horribly, with the class laughing at him.

Not to mention most of the children were being told by the parents to avoid him via flash backs. So obviously there was a certain stigma about him that the kids did not understand (since their parents were not allowed to say that he was a Jin, and Naruto didn't know he was one either).

That probably is the reason why Naruto had trouble fitting in, and why his peers didn't respect him at first.





MasterORB said:


> But when you are depressed, you want to give up on everything, trust me I know that feeling.


Not all the time. You can be depressed about something, but it doesn't necessarily mean you want to give up, unless the thing your being depressed about is completely serious. Some people even find courage in their failures, which is more so the point.

Nobody is perfect, and him being depressed does not mean he's lazy. If so that would make the millions of people around the world who get depressed over anything are characterized as lazy, which you me and both know that isn't the case.

It's a natural feeling for anyone. No matter which social latter or standing you are in the world, you can get depressed. Might be different circumstances of course, but we all feel the same at the end of the day. That's what being human is all about I think.






MasterORB said:


> But what the flash forward only indicates that Boruto only could take on that guy. And we are talking from a franchise that only make the main character that's is really important look at the anime filler, and then look at the manga where they try to replace popular characters(Sasuke, Kakashi) with copies(Sai, Yamato).


> Probably the fact that they both have tattoos and the fact that Boruto is the only one there fighting him, I suppose?

Not really. Naruto as a series had two main characters:

- Naruto & Sasuke

And two secondary main characers:

- Kakashi & Sakura (Although let's be real, compared to Nardo/Sauce ... They were pretty irrelevant)

I'm not sure if the Boruto Manga will have Kawaki as the forefront as the secondary main character, but it's not unusual for the Naruto series to have two stories going on following two different characters.

HARD to say with no little information give, nor how connected the plot is with the entire next generation. Anyway most of the K11 has been replaced already, the only one's important to the story as of late are Naruto/Sasuke still. Those two cannot be replaced entirely, they are the only one's from Naruto's generation advertised with the next generation too.

Sakura, Sai, Yamato, Kakashi, Lee, Hinata, Ino, etc. Won't be as important as their children/next generation - Probably.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 16, 2017)

Indra said:


> Not sure man. The author has not given insight on any of these issues bothering the character ... so I'm having trouble arguing for them when their conflicts were all about 'parental' problems connecting to their objectives.
> 
> I really cannot look into the future, but I hope for the sake of writing that they learn to develop the characters better


True





Indra said:


> It depends on how he mastered Sage Mode, he was being reliant on the sage oil, and his large reserves where necessary for that training. He needed talent/skill yes, but the majority of the training was heavily dependent on mechanisms Pa had to speed up the training faster because he could not learn it on his own.
> 
> Not sure about Kurama's chakra though. I don't really think there's anything stated that you need to be talented in order to master a Bijuu's chakra, even if we do count that as a fact, took Naruto a long time before he was considered a perfect Jinchuriki. And most what he learned was through the help of Killer Bee and his mother so that he could finally start utilizing the chakra by himself. Then PerfectJinchuriki came when Naruto and Kurama became 'friends' or comrades so to speak.
> 
> ...


But The Sage Mode is difficult to control because Jiraiya need the two frogs to control and gather the Natural energy, Minato wasn't his strong enough and not only that Minato had to 3 years to make the Rasengan. So in a way Naruto is talented he achieve something than the so called Genius didn't.    



Indra said:


> Nah. Naruto's antics were outside of class, and the fact that while in class, he couldn't perform well. Think back to Iruka trying to get to Naruto to summon one clone, and he failed horribly, with the class laughing at him.
> 
> Not to mention most of the children were being told by the parents to avoid him via flash backs. So obviously there was a certain stigma about him that the kids did not understand (since their parents were not allowed to say that he was a Jin, and Naruto didn't know he was one either).
> 
> That probably is the reason why Naruto had trouble fitting in, and why his peers didn't respect him at first.


But Sasuke was a anti-social kid with basically with no friends, all he did was training and being alone, and still got more respect than Naruto, in a way Sasuke should be the unpopular one and not Naruto. And one thing Naruto was in good terms if Iruka why didn't he ask him to help him to train him.




Indra said:


> Not all the time. You can be depressed about something, but it doesn't necessarily mean you want to give up, unless the thing your being depressed about is completely serious. Some people even find courage in their failures, which is more so the point.
> 
> Nobody is perfect, and him being depressed does not mean he's lazy. If so that would make the millions of people around the world who get depressed over anything are characterized as lazy, which you me and both know that isn't the case.
> 
> It's a natural feeling for anyone. No matter which social latter or standing you are in the world, you can get depressed. Might be different circumstances of course, but we all feel the same at the end of the day. That's what being human is all about I think.


When i feel depress and didn't archive anything I blame on my laziness. 




Indra said:


> > Probably the fact that they both have tattoos and the fact that Boruto is the only one there fighting him, I suppose?
> 
> Not really. Naruto as a series had two main characters:
> 
> ...


But many characters had some shiny moments in the manga, Kakashi had a lot of fights and a gaiden, Sakura had a spot light in three arcs and even Shikamaru had importance in a arc has well, there's even a volume comment that Naruto doesn't look like a main character because he doesn't appear for a long period of time. That's why I say by the looks of that page only Boruto is important not the rest.


----------



## Indra (Jan 16, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> But The Sage Mode is difficult to control because Jiraiya need the two frogs to control and gather the Natural energy, Minato wasn't his strong enough and not only that Minato had to 3 years to make the Rasengan. So in a way Naruto is talented he achieve something than the so called Genius didn't.


I believe Jiraiya's problem was that he was unable to perfectly balance physical, spiritual and natural energies, and he could not enter the 'perfect' Sage Mode. According to Fukasaku, you can only become a true Sage when the only physical changes are the markings around the eyes.


*Spoiler*: __ 








I think the key component here is whether or not you can balance out the three different energies, but it's important that you have 'enough' too. Which really isn't a problem with Naruto considering he has incredibly large reserves thanks to Kurama. Minato attained perfect sage mode like Naruto, but he wasn't able to hold it long.

Considering neither Minato nor Jiraiya have as much chakra as Naruto, I dare say that would be the entire problem itself. Maybe.

Developing a technique is different than learning the technique when it's already learned. It took three years for Minato to learn Rasengan like you said, but it never has taken anyone three years to master the technique. Kakashi, Jiraiya, Konohamaru, and Boruto all learned how to use it under that time frame, some even shorter than others.




MasterORB said:


> But Sasuke was a anti-social kid with basically with no friends, all he did was training and being alone, and still got more respect than Naruto, in a way Sasuke should be the unpopular one and not Naruto. And one thing Naruto was in good terms if Iruka why didn't he ask him to help him to train him.


Big difference is that people went out of their way to try to not shun Sasuke. He was either being admired by his male peers for being perfect (or having all the girls), and obviously like we talked about, the female portion went around following him with love eyes everywhere he went. Even if he was alone like Naruto, the people around him did not make him feel that way.

Naruto and Iruka were not on 'great terms until Naruto became a ninja, whom afterwards got assigned to Kakashi's team.




MasterORB said:


> When i feel depress and didn't archive anything I blame on my laziness.


I guess everyone is different? I contribute depression to many things, but never laziness.

The fact that you got depressed means you're worrying about it. Most lazy people just let things go through them without a care in the world, look at Shikamaru in some of his glory episodes.




MasterORB said:


> But many characters had some shiny moments in the manga, Kakashi had a lot of fights and a gaiden, Sakura had a spot light in three arcs and even Shikamaru had importance in a arc has well, there's even a volume comment that Naruto doesn't look like a main character because he doesn't appear for a long period of time. That's why I say by the looks of that page only Boruto is important not the rest.


LOL - I think it's the exact opposite. Naruto's criticism comes from the fact that Sasuke is the one he chases around (whom isn't the main character), the fact that he has never truly beaten his 'rival', and the fact that his development as a character isn't up to par.

When it comes to Naruto's appearances in his Manga, I would say that people complain he has way too much spotlight, which probably contributed to his downfall because Kishimoto kept rubbing him into our faces even when he had no idea what to do with his character other than to preach 'Naru-Jesus'.

Well obviously, that's what a Main Character is. Should be clear that the direction of the story is going to focus majorly on Naruto/Sasuke/Boruto/Kawaki/Team Konohamaru >>>> Everyone else.

I doubt that the center focus for years to come will only show Boruto related chapters though. However the Manga just started so you cannot expect the story to follow some irrelevant person either. Team Konohamaru will be in the focus, followed by Naruto/Sasuke next to them, and the antagonist.


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 16, 2017)

Indra said:


> I believe Jiraiya's problem was that he was unable to perfectly balance physical, spiritual and natural energies, and he could not enter the 'perfect' Sage Mode. According to Fukasaku, you can only become a true Sage when the only physical changes are the markings around the eyes.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


But still Naruto did many things that other genius couldn't like add the a element to the Rasengan, Kakashi and Minato couldn't do it.



Indra said:


> Big difference is that people went out of their way to try to not shun Sasuke. He was either being admired by his male peers for being perfect (or having all the girls), and obviously like we talked about, the female portion went around following him with love eyes everywhere he went. Even if he was alone like Naruto, the people around him did not make him feel that way.
> 
> Naruto and Iruka were not on 'great terms until Naruto became a ninja, whom afterwards got assigned to Kakashi's team.


I always got the notion that is male peers didn't like Sasuke and the Girls only like Sasuke For is appearances. Wheres Naruto add more or less a group with Shikamaru, Kiba and Chouji, the only thing that Naruto didn't have was is parents.

And Iruka was a little harsh on Naruto because off is misbehavior, he like Naruto before he became a ninja.  


Indra said:


> I guess everyone is different? I contribute depression to many things, but never laziness.
> 
> The fact that you got depressed means you're worrying about it. Most lazy people just let things go through them without a care in the world, look at Shikamaru in some of his glory episodes.


True.


Indra said:


> LOL - I think it's the exact opposite. Naruto's criticism comes from the fact that Sasuke is the one he chases around (whom isn't the main character), the fact that he has never truly beaten his 'rival', and the fact that his development as a character isn't up to par.
> 
> When it comes to Naruto's appearances in his Manga, I would say that people complain he has way too much spotlight, which probably contributed to his downfall because Kishimoto kept rubbing him into our faces even when he had no idea what to do with his character other than to preach 'Naru-Jesus'.
> 
> ...


If i'm remember correctly that quote appear before all the Naru-Jesus stuff. And is downfall was when everyone had to depend on Naruto. That's why I think Sasuke is a better main character than Naruto, he doesn't have to depend on anyone, he trains hard and his objectives aren't become the best in the world and as well move the plot forward unlike many other characters.


----------



## Indra (Jan 16, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> But still Naruto did many things that other genius couldn't like add the a element to the Rasengan, Kakashi and Minato couldn't do it.


Remember that Naruto was only capable of adding an elemental nature to a Rasengan through his clones usage, which Kakashi said was something only Naruto could do because he had these large reserves and stamina.

Moreover the training Naruto had to accomplish for him to learn the elemental nature + Learn to apply it to his Rasengan was enhanced through the shadow clone.

Each clone Naruto had on the field increased the training speed, and Naruto used a lot of clones. Even though Naruto wasn't as talented as Kakashi/Minato, he could bypass that by training harder than them and at a faster rate.




MasterORB said:


> I always got the notion that is male peers didn't like Sasuke and the Girls only like Sasuke For is appearances. Wheres Naruto add more or less a group with Shikamaru, Kiba and Chouji, the only thing that Naruto didn't have was is parents.
> 
> And Iruka was a little harsh on Naruto because off is misbehavior, he like Naruto before he became a ninja.


I don't remember where exactly it was stated, but there was a chapter in which Shikamaru talked about Sasuke. He said he didn't really like him, but he was amazed by his skill or talent. What I took from that is while his male peers might not generally like him quote on quote, they cannot deny he's a great shinobi nor that his skill is admirable. 

I think it was around the time that Sasuke was leaving the Village (or captured by the Sound ninja) when they were deciding to go off with Naruto to get him back. I'll look for it in the mean time.

Anyway Naruto was friends with Shikmaru, Kiba, and Chouji, but they weren't close. He tried to hang around them as children, but their parents took them away from him when they noticed who he was. So he never really had time to actually bond with them until he grew up.



MasterORB said:


> If i'm remember correctly that quote appear before all the Naru-Jesus stuff. And is downfall was when everyone had to depend on Naruto. That's why I think Sasuke is a better main character than Naruto, he doesn't have to depend on anyone, he trains hard and his objectives aren't become the best in the world and as well move the plot forward unlike many other characters.


Before the War Arc, I think the showtime was evenly spread between Naruto/Sasuke. I honestly cannot remember an arc where it never involved either Naruto or Sasuke. THOUGH now that I think about it, one small thing might have involved Asuma v. Hidan story. IDK

Gaara getting captured - Involving Naruto
Naruto returning back with information about Sasuke
Sasuke centered
Sasuke - Itachi
etc

Well I agree somewhat. Sasuke doesn't really follow people blindly, and at least in the relationship between him and Naruto, it didn't seem as retarded on his part because he wasn't always thinking boldly about him. However when Sasuke wants to do something, he does it. Rather than Naruto holding his goals back because yap yap 'friendship'.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 16, 2017)

I think Minato did not add the wind-element to the Rassengan simply because he did not have enough time for that.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 17, 2017)

Indra said:


> Remember that Naruto was only capable of adding an elemental nature to a Rasengan through his clones usage, which Kakashi said was something only Naruto could do because he had these large reserves and stamina.
> 
> Moreover the training Naruto had to accomplish for him to learn the elemental nature + Learn to apply it to his Rasengan was enhanced through the shadow clone.
> 
> Each clone Naruto had on the field increased the training speed, and Naruto used a lot of clones. Even though Naruto wasn't as talented as Kakashi/Minato, he could bypass that by training harder than them and at a faster rate.


He only train harder and had the shortcut of the clone, don't forget everyone in this manga had to train to get stronger even genius. What I'm saying is that Naruto had talent, even Kakashi who is a genius and master the Raengan couldn't add is electric element to is rasengan. 




Indra said:


> I don't remember where exactly it was stated, but there was a chapter in which Shikamaru talked about Sasuke. He said he didn't really like him, but he was amazed by his skill or talent. What I took from that is while his male peers might not generally like him quote on quote, they cannot deny he's a great shinobi nor that his skill is admirable.
> 
> I think it was around the time that Sasuke was leaving the Village (or captured by the Sound ninja) when they were deciding to go off with Naruto to get him back. I'll look for it in the mean time.
> 
> Anyway Naruto was friends with Shikmaru, Kiba, and Chouji, but they weren't close. He tried to hang around them as children, but their parents took them away from him when they noticed who he was. So he never really had time to actually bond with them until he grew up.


Yes, he was respected by is abilities not personality, now image a Naruto with skills like Sasuke but still had the same personality, he would get more respect from is peers.

Actually his parents didn't to them away because he was playing with Naruto, actually Shikaku didn't care if Shikamaru play with Naruto, that scene was representing the loneliness of Naruto with out parents. 




Indra said:


> Before the War Arc, I think the showtime was evenly spread between Naruto/Sasuke. I honestly cannot remember an arc where it never involved either Naruto or Sasuke. THOUGH now that I think about it, one small thing might have involved Asuma v. Hidan story. IDK
> 
> Gaara getting captured - Involving Naruto
> Naruto returning back with information about Sasuke
> ...



Actually In my opinion the Gaara rescue arc is more a Sakura arc than a Naruto one, because she is the one who obtains that information. But in terms of story arcs most of Sasuke arcs he(Sasuke) never mentions Naruto where in arcs involving Naruto, Sasuke is Always mention.



Indra said:


> Well I agree somewhat. Sasuke doesn't really follow people blindly, and at least in the relationship between him and Naruto, it didn't seem as retarded on his part because he wasn't always thinking boldly about him. However when Sasuke wants to do something, he does it. Rather than Naruto holding his goals back because yap yap 'friendship'.


Not only that before he went full killer mode, he had a sense of Honor he follow is objective without given up, he train relentless to achieve the level that could beat foes like Deidara by is own, he didn't need prophecies, that why i think is more of Shonen Hero than Naruto.


----------



## Indra (Jan 18, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> He only train harder and had the shortcut of the clone, don't forget everyone in this manga had to train to get stronger even genius. What I'm saying is that Naruto had talent, even Kakashi who is a genius and master the Raengan couldn't add is electric element to is rasengan.


Well I never disagreed that he never had talent, but I'm just showing you that Naruto isn't that talented. A lot of what he accomplished was through cooperation and the help of others, he's a true definition of Ashura rather than Hashirama who literally beat everyone by himself 






MasterORB said:


> Yes, he was respected by is abilities not personality, now image a Naruto with skills like Sasuke but still had the same personality, he would get more respect from is peers.
> 
> Actually his parents didn't to them away because he was playing with Naruto, actually Shikaku didn't care if Shikamaru play with Naruto, that scene was representing the loneliness of Naruto with out parents.


I think he was rejected slightly by his personality in terms with his peers because they all saw him as a class clown. No one took Naruto seriously, it took a while for them to start actually believing Naruto could become Hokage despite screaming it in their face for so long.

There actually was a scene in a flash back where Naruto was left alone in the swing-set because the rest of the parents took their kids away. I'll have to look for it.





MasterORB said:


> Actually In my opinion the Gaara rescue arc is more a Sakura arc than a Naruto one, because she is the one who obtains that information. But in terms of story arcs most of Sasuke arcs he(Sasuke) never mentions Naruto where in arcs involving Naruto, Sasuke is Always mention.


I dunno. She was heavy in the role but I thought it was more NaruSasu related than anyone else, but point taken.




MasterORB said:


> Not only that before he went full killer mode, he had a sense of Honor he follow is objective without given up, he train relentless to achieve the level that could beat foes like Deidara by is own, he didn't need prophecies, that why i think is more of Shonen Hero than Naruto.


Not sure about Shounen Hero since I think he was viewed as an Anti-Hero, not really good-good or evil, but inbetween.

But definitely a better character overall IMO


----------



## Zef (Jan 18, 2017)

Hussain said:


> I think Minato did not add the wind-element to the Rassengan simply because he did not have enough time for that.


Maybe he simply wast good enough.  

It's sad how his son and grandson are more skilled then him.


----------



## Trojan (Jan 18, 2017)

Zef said:


> Maybe he simply wast good enough.
> 
> It's sad how his son and grandson are more skilled then him.


That's ok 2. They will make him proud.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 19, 2017)

Indra said:


> Well I never disagreed that he never had talent, but I'm just showing you that Naruto isn't that talented. A lot of what he accomplished was through cooperation and the help of others, he's a true definition of Ashura rather than Hashirama who literally beat everyone by himself


That i actually on that, but my point still stands that Naruto is talent he only need help, but still got help from other, and from Hashirama we don't have the full extent of is journey.  





Indra said:


> I think he was rejected slightly by his personality in terms with his peers because they all saw him as a class clown. No one took Naruto seriously, it took a while for them to start actually believing Naruto could become Hokage despite screaming it in their face for so long.
> 
> There actually was a scene in a flash back where Naruto was left alone in the swing-set because the rest of the parents took their kids away. I'll have to look for it.


But if had the enough skills we would get some respect, like Sasuke people could not like him in terms of personality but he was got respect for is abilities.




Indra said:


> I dunno. She was heavy in the role but I thought it was more NaruSasu related than anyone else, but point taken.


Actually it was thank to her fight, that she got the information to meet Kabuto and infiltrate Orochimaru hideout.




Indra said:


> Not sure about Shounen Hero since I think he was viewed as an Anti-Hero, not really good-good or evil, but inbetween.
> 
> But definitely a better character overall IMO


But anti-heroes can be protagonist too, look at Guts from Berserk. What I'm saying is that Sasuke drives the plot more further even by part 1 than any other character in this manga. Not only that he is mention in almost every arc.


----------



## Indra (Jan 21, 2017)

MasterORB said:


> That i actually on that, but my point still stands that Naruto is talent he only need help, but still got help from other, and from Hashirama we don't have the full extent of is journey.


Well - No. Naruto has talent but Naruto isn't talented.

There's a difference in how it's portrayed. Naruto was always painted as a hard working shinobi who wasn't as smart or talented as everyone else, but strived to become strong due to his unwavering determination to grow and never give up.



MasterORB said:


> But if had the enough skills we would get some respect, like Sasuke people could not like him in terms of personality but he was got respect for is abilities.


Probably. Not really Sasuke's fault though, seeing his parents/clan die took a toll on his previous personality. I don't think he was up for making friends.





MasterORB said:


> Actually it was thank to her fight, that she got the information to meet Kabuto and infiltrate Orochimaru hideout.


I don't doubt her role in it, however small, but what-ever came afterwards was pretty insignificant. After Naruto/Sasuke met, the story more or less revolved around either one for a long time lol...





MasterORB said:


> But anti-heroes can be protagonist too, look at Guts from Berserk. What I'm saying is that Sasuke drives the plot more further even by part 1 than any other character in this manga. Not only that he is mention in almost every arc.


I never said he wasn't a protagonist because he was an anti-hero, but when people usually think of protagonists, they usually go for Naruto rather than Sasuke. Mainly due to Sasuke having conflicting opinions and ideas on what he wanted to do.

For instance you want to bring up Guts from Berserk, but Guts never really was a 'villain' per se. Sasuke on the other hand was a foe the protagonist had to fight up until the end of the series.

However the nature of his character wasn't exactly evil (like Orochimaru for example) but misguided. That's why we see him as anti hero, rather than him not being a ball of sunshine as a reason.

Hopefully that made sense. xD


----------



## MasterORB (Jan 23, 2017)

Indra said:


> Well - No. Naruto has talent but Naruto isn't talented.
> 
> There's a difference in how it's portrayed. Naruto was always painted as a hard working shinobi who wasn't as smart or talented as everyone else, but strived to become strong due to his unwavering determination to grow and never give up.


But always there's a limit to how a talent could go, but with Naruto, he went far beyond of many shinobi could do even Killer Bee who is a genius in my eyes, he even Surpass the second hokage in terms of the clone usage.  



Indra said:


> Probably. Not really Sasuke's fault though, seeing his parents/clan die took a toll on his previous personality. I don't think he was up for making friends.


But that's what after the massacre, where he become a anti-social person who only train to get is revenge. Before the massacre he was a kind kid.




Indra said:


> I don't doubt her role in it, however small, but what-ever came afterwards was pretty insignificant. After Naruto/Sasuke met, the story more or less revolved around either one for a long time lol...


For me, her time to shine end after the Sai & Sasuke arc.



Indra said:


> I never said he wasn't a protagonist because he was an anti-hero, but when people usually think of protagonists, they usually go for Naruto rather than Sasuke. Mainly due to Sasuke having conflicting opinions and ideas on what he wanted to do.
> 
> For instance you want to bring up Guts from Berserk, but Guts never really was a 'villain' per se. Sasuke on the other hand was a foe the protagonist had to fight up until the end of the series.
> 
> ...


For me Guts and Sasuke are anti heroes, they have their own objectives. You don't need to be shine ray to be a hero, there are tones of protagonist that are not good guys.


----------



## ThatGreekLady (Jan 23, 2017)

-Sakura is not as bad as people say. 

-Gaara shouldn't have become a kage. (first of all he was too young and second of all what the hell. How did they went from hating him to making him a kage?)

-Boruto is an annoying little shit.

-Naruto is smarter than Sasuke (but they're both pretty retarded)


----------



## Mikasa Morano (Jan 25, 2017)

Himawari is ugly.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## LazyWaka (Jan 26, 2017)

With the new art style yeah.


----------



## NaruSakuLives (Jan 27, 2017)

itachi was the most horribly written Naruto character. to add to that, I can't think of a character written more horribly than him in manga history.

Naruto became the most boring character when he completely turned to Jesus aka when Kishimoto-san finally stopped hiding the fact that he's a self insert sue.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## NaruSakuLives (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks for the rep @Rinkaku , tried to leave a thank you note on your profile but for some reason I've been met with error messages. I think my post count prevents me from doing many stuff.


----------



## Trivub (Jan 27, 2017)

I love those side characters with little screen time.  I always imagine Baki from the sand to be a pretty powerful guy. I imagine he can do futon, puppet technique and sand manipulation, although i know thats not very likely. His ultimate technique is summoning a fortress of sand inhabited with undead skeleton warriors, that traps the victim inside. The skeletons could be puppets. 
I dont really know if its controversial though.


----------



## Jikaishin (Jan 29, 2017)

- Dora the Explorer has better plot than the Naruto-Sasuke plot
- Naruto and Sasuke are gay for each other and only had kids to keep appearance ( Naruto hyperventilating was proof and their dialogue at the end of Part II was a step away from sucking each other ) 
- Guren is filler but she is more revelant, interesting and powerful than all the other female character combined excluding Tsunade, Chiyo and Mei ( a woman with two bloodline limit has become Mizukage with the extermination of them and brought peace to her village )

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


----------



## pat pat (Jan 29, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> - Dora the Explorer has better plot than the Naruto-Sasuke plot
> - Naruto and Sasuke are gay for each other and only had kids to keep appearance ( Naruto hyperventilating was proof and their dialogue at the end of Part II was a step away from sucking each other )
> - Guren is filler but she is more revelant, interesting and powerful than all the other female character combined excluding Tsunade, Chiyo and Mei ( a woman with two bloodline limit has become Mizukage with the extermination of them and brought peace to her village )


 You killed it man

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## HisokaRollin (Jan 29, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> - Dora the Explorer has better plot than the Naruto-Sasuke plot
> - Naruto and Sasuke are gay for each other and only had kids to keep appearance ( Naruto hyperventilating was proof and their dialogue at the end of Part II was a step away from sucking each other )
> - Guren is filler but she is more revelant, interesting and powerful than all the other female character combined excluding Tsunade, Chiyo and Mei ( a woman with two bloodline limit has become Mizukage with the extermination of them and brought peace to her village )



Yup. Totally agree.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------

