# Deidara vs. Tsunade



## Ersa (Jan 7, 2014)

*Location*: Sasuke vs. Deidara
*Distance*: 15m
*Knowledge*: Full
*Mindset*: IC, intent to kill.
*Conditions/Restrictions*
- Deidara starts on the ground.
- C0 is restricted.


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## ARGUS (Jan 7, 2014)

The only way tsunade can win this is if she manages to punch deidara immediately before he decides to fly off and nuke tsunade in every possible way 
C3 heavily damages her.. C4 finishes the match as she has no counters to it 
Deidara wins mid diff if tsunade doesn't finish him off before he flies off


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## Alex Payne (Jan 7, 2014)

Tsunade can't stop Deidara from taking flight. And she can't combat him when he is flying. After that it is either C3 or C4 that kills Godaime.


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## Katou (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara should be able to win this .. assuming he won't have to be getting worried for Genjutsu since Knowledge is full


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## Ghost (Jan 7, 2014)

Tsunade isn't taking out Deidara before the latter takes flight. Tsunade dies to C3 + C4.


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## Joakim3 (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara gets in the air even from 15m

from there is C2 for the shits and giggles, once he realizes that won't put her down he casually one shots with C3 or C4


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## Baroxio (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara was able to escape CQC against Team Gai with nothing but a kunai in his mouth while completely lacking arms.

Even if he started 2 meters from Tsunade he could escape her, get into the air, and just bombard her to death.

Tsunade can attempt to summon Katsuya to absorb a few blows, but Katsuya's ability to block C3 is questionable, to say nothing of C4.

Deidara wins with low to mid difficulty.


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## Bonly (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara in his epic stupidity goes into CQC range and gets blitz,,punched, and killed. You're welcome Turrin


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## Baroxio (Jan 7, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Deidara in his epic stupidity goes into CQC range and gets blitz,,punched, and killed. You're welcome Turrin *Godaime Tsunade*



FIFY. 

No offense to GT, she's a brilliant poster, but the argument that Tsunade beats X person because X person decides to be an idiot and ignore their numerous advantages by entering into CQC Tsuande, getting either blitzed or surprised by regeneration, punched and killed gets really old, really fast.


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## LostSelf (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara rushes in CqC against Tsunade and gets stomped.

Ok no. On a serious argument, Tsunade cannot stop him from going airborne. Gai, who is more skilled and faster than Tsunade couldn't prevent him from moving away, and the only reason he didn't go airborne was because he had no arms. He dodges her confortably and goes airborne.

Or he bombs her face if she tries to prevent him from going so. Above, even C2 would be deadly for both, Katsuyu and Tsunade due to the size of the explosions.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 7, 2014)

Tsunade blitzes him from 15m, just as she blitzed a V3 Legged Mokuton Madara Clone Susano. While Deidara was blitzed already on a bird, by Sai, from a further distance. 

Even if he miraculously gets on a bird, she summons 5% Katsuya below her feet, leaps off her above him, then summons her again, and splat goes the ponytail.

There is no counter to this logic bar Deidara wank, which is most of what has been displayed in this thread.


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## rubberguy (Jan 7, 2014)

Tsunade punch the ground causing deidara to become unbalanced and attack him and katsuyu solos.


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## Veracity (Jan 7, 2014)

I personally don't see C3 killing her quite frankly. It was completely stopped by Gaara's base sand without techniques ; full

While Madara's Yasaka could Completley destroy Gaara's more potent mother defense, and even leak through to the Rock Golem ; full

It Hardly was able to injure Tsunade however, and the wounds she recovered where from the sword wounds; full
full


OT: Tsunade is certainly stronger then Deidara, but this is just a bad match up for her. She most likely loses. It will he am absolute pain in the ass to catch Deidara while in the air. She posses equal foot speed to his flying speed, but she will have to use Katsuyu perfectly and distract Deidara if she really wants to catch him. I just don't think it's gonna happen.


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## fior fior (Jan 7, 2014)

Katsuyu tanks CST and CT. Deidara's measly explosions are nothing more than pinpricks.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 7, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I personally don't see C3 killing her quite frankly. It was completely stopped by Gaara's base sand without techniques ; instant
> 
> While Madara's Yasaka could Completley destroy Gaara's more potent mother defense, and even leak through to the Rock Golem ; instant
> 
> ...


How does he get off the ground if she possesses equal foot speed to his flight speed?

Deidara's foot speed isn't close to his flight speed feat-wise, this is a 15m start distance and his clay bag isn't even unzipped.


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## Veracity (Jan 7, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> How does he get off the ground if she possesses equal foot speed to his flight speed?
> 
> Deidara's foot speed isn't close to his flight speed feat-wise, this is a 15m start distance and his clay bag isn't even unzipped.



That's very true. I didn't read the distance lol. Tsunade can very well win this.


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## Rosencrantz (Jan 7, 2014)

Byakugou can counter C1 and C2 for sure. She can use Katsuya to close the gap and hit his bird with acid. C3 might even be able to be healed from or using Katsuya as a jumping point she can clear it getting into the air. So it is basically C4 vs Byakugou and that is a matter of opinion.


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## LostSelf (Jan 7, 2014)

People really believes Tsunade is going to blitz Deidara.

I actually needed a good laugh .


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## Doge (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara village bombs Katsuya and takes Tsunade apart cell by cell.


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## LostSelf (Jan 7, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I personally don't see C3 killing her quite frankly. It was completely stopped by Gaara's base sand without techniques ; 1



This doesn't downplay C3. This hypes Gaara's sand defense, actually. C3 was going to anihilate the village, i, personally, don't see Tsunade surviving a village busting attack. She's not notably durable. I don't think either Katsuyu is tanking a village bustin attack. C2 made an explosion bigger than the slug, that's enough to damage her. C3 would be too much.



> While Madara's Yasaka could Completley destroy Gaara's more potent mother defense, and even leak through to the Rock Golem ; 1


There's a very big difference. The amount of sand Gaara used to protect the village was way bigger than the one he used to help the Golem. And by Deidara's words, Gaara used all his remaining strenght to block. Madara's Magatama wouldn't have bypassed the sand shield he used to block C3. 



> It Hardly was able to injure Tsunade however, and the wounds she recovered where from the sword wounds; 1
> 1



Another big difference, because the Magatama Madara used against Tsunade was way smaller, and was a one hit attack, not multiple ones. Plus, Tsunade's Byakugo regenerated her before she stood up. However, this attack is not comparable to the big Magatama in anything.


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## RedChidori (Jan 7, 2014)

Tsunade won't be blitzing anytime soon. Deidara can give her trouble with just his mini clay spiders. His clay monsters would only be for shits n giggles but Tsunade may be able to take care of does easily. But as soon as Deidara goes airborne, Tsunade might as well call it quits. C2 Dragon could fuck her up badly, and if she uses Byakogu she would catch a C3 and it's over. Now if she heals from C3,  C4 will wipe Tsunade and her slug Off the face of the Earth.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Jan 7, 2014)

Deidara takes to the skies and wipes her off the map. He's Tsunade's worst nightmare.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 8, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> People really believes Tsunade is going to blitz Deidara.
> 
> I actually needed a good laugh .


Sai blitzed him in plain sight, with an ink bird, he drew in plain sight, while Deidara was already on a bird, and failed to react in time to avoid a further drawing of two ink men that two-pieced his bird. 

Forget Tsunade, most of the Konoha 11 could blitz this dude, sadly.

The Deidara wank continues to saturate the dome. Solo'd by Sai, but capable of defeating a Sannin? 

What a waste debating here has become.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 8, 2014)

There's really nothing Tsunade can do about C4. Once Deidara uses that, it's over for her.



DaVizWiz said:


> Sai blitzed him in plain sight, with an ink bird, he drew in plain sight, while Deidara was already on a bird, and failed to react in time to avoid a further drawing of two ink men that two-pieced his bird.



Deidara is faster than Sai, according to the last databook; the blitz was largely due to Deidara's arrogance and a healthy injection of plot.



> Forget Tsunade, most of the Konoha 11 could blitz this dude, sadly.



No, no they couldn't.

The fastest of the K-11 are Neji, Lee, and Kiba, and they're in the same tier as Deidara (4.5)--which is a full tier above Tsunade, btw.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 8, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> There's really nothing Tsunade can do about C4. Once Deidara uses that, it's over for her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Niku, read my signature.

We had issues in the past with your clownish Deidara wank. Don't bother addressing me in this thread, every word that you type here is utterly worthless.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 8, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Niku, read my signature.



I'm not interested in reading through what is essentially a failed attempt by an anonymous internet stranger to publicly shame me by declaring me a "fanboy."



> We had issues in the past with your clownish Deidara wank. Don't bother addressing me in this thread.



If you make demonstrably false claims, I will address them and provide the correct information.

If that bothers you, then use the Ignore feature to block my posts; I was under the impression that you already did.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 8, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I'm not interested in reading through what is essentially a failed attempt to publicly shame me by an anonymous internet stranger declaring me a "fanboy."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Citing a canon certainty is not a false claim.

Deidara was blitzed by Sai while on an clay bird. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to disprove this. 

You're on your last leg with databook stats that are outdated, completely baseless and ENTIRELY inconsistent throughout. Then you add in excuses about him being overconfident and pull the plot card?

Get the fuck out of my face fanboy.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 8, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Citing a canon certainty is not a false claim.



Tsunade and the K11 blitzing Deidara is not canon; none of them have even fought Deidara, with the exception of Gai's team--and they failed to blitz, despite two of them being the fastest out of the whole crop.

Gai himself failed to blitz. Sasuke failed to blitz twice.

Deidara wasn't blitzed when he fought Oonoki, who has no shortage of speed feats putting him on or above Tsunade's level in that area.

Yet you keep clinging to the Sai blitz, which is a blatant outlier compared to everything else.



> Deidara was blitzed by Sai while on an clay bird. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do to disprove this.



I'm not trying to disprove it; all I'm saying is that the blitz does not reflect a proper speed comparison--at least not one that can be scaled to Tsunade or any of Naruto's classmates.



> You're on your last leg with databook stats that are outdated,



They're really the only comparison we have between Sai, Tsunade, and the K11; most of the K11 don't even have speed feats since the timeskip without chakra cloaks from Naruto.

If you're going to say Sai is faster now than when the third databook applied, you're then burdened to provide evidence that his speed can still be scaled to Tsunade and any of the rookies. If you can't do that, well...guess you're out of luck.



> completely baseless



The author's word doesn't need a base; it IS the base.



> and ENTIRELY inconsistent throughout.



Yeah, I would challenge you to back that up with evidence, but I already know that you can't.



> Then you add in excuses about him being overconfident and pull the plot card?



What else do you call it when the guy who reacted to Sasuke mid-swing from a meter away gets his back taken by a guy a full tier slower from ten times that distance?

This is the same guy who outran an entire desert and kidnapped a Kage while an entire village watched helplessly (and nearly got vaporized by him at a whim). He's proved himself able to tango with Kage-levels, including those at the upper end of the speed ranks (Sasuke, Oonoki, Gai). You're catastrophically underrating him, based solely on one poor performance.



> Get the fuck out of my face fanboy.



No; you can put me on Ignore if you don't want to deal with me.

And then I'll still correct you every time you make inaccurate statements.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 8, 2014)

Maybe I'm being unfair, but I've never really considered Sai blitzing Deidara in mid-air to be very significant. Deidara has a 4.5 in speed and although he's pretty crappy in CQC, he's fast enough to escape one of Hebi Sasuke's shunshins at point blank range. He's faster than Tsunade, so she isn't going to be blitzing.

He also has full knowledge on her - he knows he cant take her on in CQC, so he's going to shunshin away and take to the skies.



Baroxio said:


> FIFY.
> 
> No offense to GT, she's a brilliant poster, but the argument that Tsunade beats X person because X person decides to be an idiot and ignore their numerous advantages by entering into CQC Tsunade, getting either blitzed or surprised by regeneration, punched and killed gets really old, really fast.



I only use that argument whenever they ICly go into CQC and have no knowledge of her strength. 

---

Has no one else considered that C4 Karura attacks the enemy on the cellular level, while Tsunade's Byakugou regenerates at the _cellular level_ (since it's an insanely fast progression of mitosis)? If she has enough chakra in her seal to sustain her I dare say she could regenerate from the attack.

Katsuyu took a CST in her minature forms. C3 would hurt her alright but surviving it is plausible, especially whenever she can break off parts of her that are on fire or dead. As long as Tsunade is well covered her slug could probably shield her. That being said, it takes a while before C3 expands and explodes, and Tsunade happens to have full knowledge on it. Couldn't she just melt the clay creation with acid slime before it blows up?

Tsunade has sufficient evasion feats to plainly avoid C1 bombs. C2 would be harder to avoid - she would need Sozou Saisei or Byakugou to survive that assault. 

In my opinion this match up depends on how much chakra Tsunade has saved up in her seal. With a large amount she could regenerate from C2 and C4 and exhaust Deidara's usable clay. She may also be able to bring out a very large Katsuyu body. With a small-moderate amount like she had against Madara she would only just have enough to get through C2, a C4 would put her down for sure.
.​​


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## Kai (Jan 8, 2014)

It isn't daring at all to say, GT. C4 won't end Tsunade while she has Byakugo activated.

On the flip side, Deidara has enough firepower to overwhelm/outlast Byakugo.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 8, 2014)

Deidara drops a C3 on Tsunade, wipes her off the face of the planet.
Or he can keep harassing her constantly with C2 till she runs out of juice.

Also C4 disintegrates its victims. Not sure if Byakugo can cope with that.

Deidara low dif.



DaVizWiz said:


> Get the fuck out of my face fanboy.



What ? This kind of attitude is allowed in BD now ? 

Fantastic


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 8, 2014)

> Deidara was able to escape CQC against Team Gai with nothing but a kunai in his mouth while completely lacking arms.



You make armless sound like a bad thing.

Deidara's power increases exponentially at an inverse to the amount of arms he has.  
Sasuke's just lucky he never took one of Deidara's arms off with eiso.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 8, 2014)

Kai said:


> It isn't daring at all to say, GT. C4 won't end Tsunade while she has Byakugo activated.
> 
> On the flip side, Deidara has enough firepower to overwhelm/outlast Byakugo.



Nope.

But yeah, it seems silly to say Deidara wears himself up blowing her up and falls out of the air from exhaustion, allowing her the win.

Of course she can super jump or air shunshin, but it doesn't seem like it'd work on him since he's so mobile.



> I don't think either Katsuyu is tanking a village bustin attack.



She kinda did vs Pain...


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## LostSelf (Jan 8, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Sai blitzed him in plain sight, with an ink bird, he drew in plain sight, while Deidara was already on a bird, and failed to react in time to avoid a further drawing of two ink men that two-pieced his bird.




So, wait. Sasuke couldn't blitz him, Gai couldn't blitz him, Gaara's guided and gigantic sand Tsunami couldn't blitz him.

So, Sai "blitz" him and this magically makes Tsunade able to? Haven't you thought....hmmm... that...mmm... Sai might be faster than her? I _really_ doubt, no, i'm pretty sure that Tsunade is not near as fast as Hebi Sasuke and Gai. And they failed.

"Blitzing" (I don't remember when) a featless Susano'o clone that in the end, ended up taking her down is no feat at all. So no, Tsunade cannot blitz anybody here.



> The Deidara wank continues to saturate the dome. Solo'd by Sai, but capable of defeating a Sannin?



What continues to saturate the dome are people with exaggerated and baseless claims thinking that the opposite opinion is wank and baseless. With all respect, you are a prime example. Just look at your list. I think you should be more open minded. You know, just a friendly advice.



> What a waste debating here has become.



_Forget Tsunade, most of the Konoha 11 could blitz this dude, sadly._

Yeah, i definitely agree with you.

*PoW*: Katsuyu was never hit directly by the blast. None of them were buried in the ground, like they would be if they were hit by a powerful push coming from above. The blast hit the center of the village and destroyed it. Katsuyu tanked that.

People that were closer than Katsuyu to the blast were fine, like that fodder ANBU and Tsunade, so it wasn't an amazing feat if a fodder was like nothing.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 8, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> *PoW*: Katsuyu was never hit directly by the blast. None of them were buried in the ground, like they would be if they were hit by a powerful push coming from above. The blast hit the center of the village and destroyed it. Katsuyu tanked that.



Katsuyu divisions were in the center of the village where the blast struck too, so they still tanked it. In fact, many divisions tanked the initial CST _and_ the resulting waves of high speed rubble hitting them. The CST pushed everything to the outskirts of the village, including the Katsuyu divisions.



> People that were closer than Katsuyu to the blast were fine, like that fodder ANBU and Tsunade, so it wasn't an amazing feat if a fodder was like nothing.



That ANBU Fodder was blown away from Tsunade like everyone else was, and he came from off-panel. Given that many people suffered broken bones and sustained injuries even _with_ Katsuyu's protection there's no way some fodder ANBU survived without the slug's protection. He isn't like Tsunade - resilient, durable, and capable of regenerating (which is why she survived without Katsuyu).​​


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## Tarot (Jan 8, 2014)

Deidara is really Tsunade's worst match. I'd say he wins mid diff with no intel, high diff if she has intel on C4. She could run an electrical current through he body if she inhales nano-bombs. C3 will probably be the game ender.


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## LostSelf (Jan 8, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Katsuyu divisions were in the center of the village where the blast struck too, so they still tanked it. In fact, many divisions tanked the initial CST _and_ the resulting waves of high speed rubble hitting them. The CST pushed everything to the outskirts of the village, including the Katsuyu divisions.​




But those divisions weren't shown struck in the ground. A much stronger blast than the one that broke every bone of 3 boss summons would've buried them, yet, nobody was, and nobody died from it, they couldn't have been hit by the initial blast because of this.



> That ANBU Fodder was blown away from Tsunade like everyone else was, and he came from off-panel. Given that many people suffered broken bones and sustained injuries even _with_ Katsuyu's protection there's no way some fodder ANBU survived without the slug's protection. He isn't like Tsunade - resilient, durable, and capable of regenerating (which is why she survived without Katsuyu).


​
The ANBU fodder was pursuing Pain with Tsunade, therefore he would've been hit by the attack and/or have a broken bone at least, but he was completely fine. If the two of them were closer to Pain than everybody else, then the blast should've hit them harder than every other villager. Yet, he was completely fine.

Katsuyu was never shown protecting him, nor was shown to have one in the multiple panels he appeared. And in case he had one that was not shown, it was impossible for Katsuyu or him to figure out what Pain was going to do and protect him before CST clashed (Another reason to believe that Katsuyu only suffered the destruction and not the initial blast), because the jutsu hit the village instantly. Having one or not, he was not protected, was closer and survived.

Also, the ANBU was always with Tsunade, and appeared almost at the same time as her. They were likely together all the time.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 8, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> But those divisions weren't shown struck in the ground. A much stronger blast than the one that broke every bone of 3 boss summons would've buried them, yet, nobody was, and nobody died from it, they couldn't have been hit by the initial blast because of this.



But it wouldn't have buried them, because that wasn't the nature of Chou Shinra Tensei. The initial blast may have instantly flattened the center of the village but it then pushed _everything_ to the outskirts of the village. Katsuyu divisions are not exempt from this. Just like there weren't any people, buildings or debris pieces buried in the ground, there weren't any divisions buried either. 




> The ANBU fodder was pursuing Pain with Tsunade, therefore he would've been hit by the attack and/or have a broken bone at least, but he was completely fine. If the two of them were closer to Pain than everybody else, then the blast should've hit them harder than every other villager. Yet, he was completely fine.



Tsunade nor her ANBU guards were in the center of the village when Pein's attack struck Konoha, so they weren't hit by the initial blast. And yes, while the waves of debris were fast there were Katsuyu divisions _everywhere_, and given that they had time to cover every other villager before they were hit, its very, very likely that he was covered by a Katsuyu division.



> Katsuyu was never shown protecting him, nor was shown to have one in the multiple panels he appeared. And in case he had one that was not shown, it was impossible for Katsuyu or him to figure out what Pain was going to do and protect him before CST clashed (Another reason to believe that Katsuyu only suffered the destruction and not the initial blast), because the jutsu hit the village instantly. Having one or not, he was not protected, was closer and survived.



So what? Katsuyu was never shown protecting most people. Do you think Moegi tanked the attack? Or _this old woman_? Or any other irrelevant character? No, Katsuyu said she protected _everyone_ in order to protect them from the attack, and it was explicitly stated that Tsunade poured all of her chakra into Katsuyu to heal the wounded (as there was evidently still injuries). Whether or not you think Katsuyu could anticipate the attack or not, Tsunade _clearly knew Pein was planning something_, and made a good call in having Katsuyu protect everyone. In the panel that the ANBU guard appears he's coming from off-panel, so he _obviously_ isn't going to have a Katsuyu division beside him lest it grow legs and run after him.



> Also, the ANBU was always with Tsunade, and appeared almost at the same time as her. They were likely together all the time.



They were clearly near each other both before and after the blast, but that is no reason to assume he didn't have a division protecting him off-panel like everyone else. Honestly its just ridiculous to assume he or anyone else bar Tsunade could have taken that attack and lived.​​


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## Pitbull00000 (Jan 8, 2014)

tsunade is nothing special, she is the weakest HOgake that konoha has.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 8, 2014)

Deidara reacted to Sasuke's Shunshin and Sasuke is faster than Tsunade. Once he takes flight Tsunade gets detonated in any way Dediara wishes.


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## richard lewis (Jan 8, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Deidara rushes in CqC against Tsunade and gets stomped.
> 
> Ok no. On a serious argument, Tsunade cannot stop him from going airborne. Gai, who is more skilled and faster than Tsunade couldn't prevent him from moving away, and the only reason he didn't go airborne was because he had no arms. He dodges her confortably and goes airborne.
> 
> Or he bombs her face if she tries to prevent him from going so. Above, even C2 would be deadly for both, Katsuyu and Tsunade due to the size of the explosions.



actually gai could prevent him from running away which is why on the page you posted deidara say's and I quote "Now there's no way I can escape" and on the next page he begins executing his suicide jutsu realizing there is no escape. and that was base gai if he was using gates there is a strong possibility that gai could outright blitz him. 

Tsunade can shatter the ground making it very difficult for deidara to run and if she summons katsuyu it can bombard deidara with acid. So I don't think it's out of the question for tsunade to stop him b4 he summons his bird. however even if he does manage to summon his bird and get airborn tsunade can tank everything bar C4 and with full knowledge she will just run outside of it's AOE. also tsunade was able to leep 300+ feet into the air with a skyscraper sized sword in her hand and stab it through manda's mouth b4 it could attack gamabunta size so it is very possible that she could tag deidara even when airborn katsuyu can also hit him with acid. Worse case scenario it comes down to a battle of attrition which tsunade wins.


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## LostSelf (Jan 8, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> actually gai could prevent him from running away which is why on the page you posted deidara say's and I quote "Now there's no way I can escape" and on the next page he begins executing his suicide jutsu realizing there is no escape. and that was base gai if he was using gates there is a strong possibility that gai could outright blitz him.



The next page shows Deidara having dodged the initial skirmish between him and Gai. Even if he couldn't get away for good against five opponents, he dodged the first skirmish, against a confortably faster opponent and with better CqC feats, all that in less than one meter. 



> Tsunade can shatter the ground making it very difficult for deidara to run and if she summons katsuyu it can bombard deidara with acid.



Tsunade cannot shatter the ground and summon Katsuyu at the same time. Katsuyu has not shown anything to assume it can pressure Deidara at all if even Sasuke couldn't prevent him from going airborne with an ambush. Not that Tsunade's speed is great at all to blitz him or pressure him.



> So I don't think it's out of the question for tsunade to stop him b4 he summons his bird.



Actually, it is. Tsunade is not comparable to Gai and Sasuke in speed and reflexes, and both failed. In this case, Deidara is against a slower, linear and predictable opponent that is going to be reacted way before she throws a punch.



> however even if he does manage to summon his bird and get airborn tsunade can tank everything bar C4 and with full knowledge she will just run outside of it's AOE. also tsunade was able to leep 300+ feet into the air with a skyscraper sized sword in her hand and stab it through manda's mouth b4 it could attack gamabunta
> Tobirama explicitly said that Minato's Shunshin was faster. so it is very possible that she could tag deidara even when airborn katsuyu can also hit him with acid. Worse case scenario it comes down to a battle of attrition which tsunade wins.



Tsunade can't tank C3. She cannot even tank C2 without suffering from heavy injuries. Jumping does no good either since she's blitzing nobody here, Deidara just has to move to a side, or meet her with a bomb in her face, sending her to the floor badly injured. She hasn't shown the speed or aerial maneuvers to tag a man that reacted to an entire and guided desert. Katsuyu's acid, that was completely outrunned by a giant snake is not touching him either and Tsunade cannot outlast him while being blown away every second.


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## LostSelf (Jan 8, 2014)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> But it wouldn't have buried them, because that wasn't the nature of Chou Shinra Tensei. The initial blast may have instantly flattened the center of the village but it then pushed _everything_ to the outskirts of the village. Katsuyu divisions are not exempt from this. Just like there weren't any people, buildings or debris pieces buried in the ground, there weren't any divisions buried either.​





Then this just proves my point. None of them were hit by the _initial_ hit of ST. The push afterwards wasn't as strong as that initial blast. And if the ANBU was sent flying away by the wave and lived, just says how unimpressive surviving this was.



> Tsunade nor her ANBU guards were in the center of the village when Pein's attack struck Konoha, so they weren't hit by the initial blast. And yes, while the waves of debris were fast there were Katsuyu divisions _everywhere_, and given that they had time to cover every other villager before they were hit, its very, very likely that he was covered by a Katsuyu division.



I'm not talking about the waves of debris. I'm talking about the initial blast. There's no way Katsuyu could've protected everybody before it hit the village because the attack was instantaneous and took everybody by surprise. Therefore, Katsuyu protected everybody beforehand (Healing them). So people unprotected before were left unprotected, unles the slug has Hiraishin to cover them before a blast that was not even reacted by RM Naruto hit them. 



> So what? Katsuyu was never shown protecting most people. Do you think Moegi tanked the attack? Or _this old woman_? Or any other irrelevant character? No, Katsuyu said she protected _everyone_ in order to protect them from the attack, and it was explicitly stated that Tsunade poured all of her chakra into Katsuyu to heal the wounded (as there was evidently still injuries). Whether or not you think Katsuyu could anticipate the attack or not, Tsunade _clearly knew Pein was planning something_, and made a good call in having Katsuyu protect everyone. In the panel that the ANBU guard appears he's coming from off-panel, so he _obviously_ isn't going to have a Katsuyu division beside him lest it grow legs and run after him.



You are bringing examples of people that were shown _before_ Tsunade summoned Katsuyu. The ANBU was with Tsunade when she summoned it. Katsuyu divided and went after everybody in the village _save_ them. We never saw Tsunade keeping a Katsuyu clone in her pocket, nor giving the ANBU one. Nothing indicates the ANBU was protected if he even wasn't in the line of fire before Deva decided to destroy the village. And the ANBU was shown with her after being hit, not only appearing off panel, the scan will be below.

So, no. The ANBU was unprotected. The off panel thing shows him returning, again, with nothing. Saying Tsunade gave the ANBU a clone when:



Katsuyu is seen dividing and going after everybody in the village save Tsunade and co.
The ANBU wasn't fighting when she summoned, so no need to be healed by one.
Tsunade never knew Pain's intentions of wiping out the village. (Same scan you posted, doesn't show in any way that she is suspicious of Pain. She's just surprised and she never called Katsuyu to help. In my next scan she doesn't even know what happened.
Katsuyu and nobody can react to an invisible and near-instantaneous blast fast enough to cover everybody before it hit the ground
The ANBU and Tsunade appear without a Katsuyu clone, and they didn't even move a bit, yet. And the ANBU doesn't say he's included in the people she protected.

Is just an assumption going against everything shown in the manga. Why would Tsunade give a Katsuyu on somebody that is not fighting? How is Katsuyu coming out of the pocket of the ANBU (If he had one) before CST hit the village if none of them could see the blast?

Nobody saw it coming, and there was no need to give a clone to the ANBU or the same Tsunade unless she knew that Pain was going to wipe everything out before she even summoned the slug. Wich is not the case, and the ANBU survived the blast without any injury.



> They were clearly near each other both before and after the blast, but that is no reason to assume he didn't have a division protecting him off-panel like everyone else. Honestly its just ridiculous to assume he or anyone else bar Tsunade could have taken that attack and lived.


​
No, it's not ridiculous. Katsuyu was dividied way before Pain even met Tsunade, there's no reason for the ANBU to have one, it has never shown him having one, and Katsuyu unable to react to something she didn't know was coming.

You are assuming it was, by assumption only. I'm proving you _why_ the ANBu didn't have a clone. I wouldn't call this "ridiculous". 

And no, they didn't take the attack directly, hence why they lived, they were just dragged out like everybody else. Not a bad feat, but not a feat to suggest Katsuyu tanked a village busting attack directly.


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

Even w/ knowledge Deidara's arrogance/stupidity runs so deep I still give him a 50% shot of not going air born right away and staying on the ground using C1; in which case Tsunade beats the living piss out of him. And before people start underrating Tsunade's speed, she was able to land a blow on Madara of all people and she landed blows on Orochimaru, who has the same speed stat as Deidara in the Sannin Duel; yes he didn't have arms, but not having arms doesn't change his ability to dodge it just hinders his ability to block (or use Jutsu to block), but Deidara's not got any Jutsu which can block Tsunade's physical attacks anyway, so that's a moot point. 

Anyway if Deidara does play it even remotely smart and opts to obtain flight right away. Tsunade also has full knowledge so she'll know what he's doing and can pull out a massive Katsuya to cross the 15m quickly and Acid Spit his ass before he can fly a safe distance away; so that could also end the match right there. If Deidara does manage to get a safe distance away things become harder on Tsunade, but she can still comfortably tank anything Deidara throws at her besides C3 w/ Katsuya/Byakugo and w/ full knowledge C3 can be pretty easily handled by Katsuya simply spitting acid on it and melting it before it falls a safe distance away from Deidara to be detonated. C4 can also be easily evaded w/ full knowledge since Tsunade will know it's coming and simply not breath and than just escape it's radious. Ultimately Tsunade will have much more chakra than Deidara due to her Yin Seal and simply outlast him, if she's unable to bring him down to earth by hurling topography at him or Katsuya splitting and firing Acid spit everywhere; or Tsunade pulling a Gai where she jumps into the air and than uses Katsuyas as stepping stones to jump further distances until she is in range of Deidara or in range to summon Katsuya on top of or to attack Deidara in whatever fashion.

So Tsunade has a ton of ways to win and I see no avenue for victory here for Deidara.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Even w/ knowledge Deidara's arrogance/stupidity runs so deep I still give him a 50% shot of not going air born right away and staying on the ground using C1; in which case Tsunade beats the living piss out of him.



Sadly Tsunade isn't as fast as Sasuke, so she won't be able to catch Deidara nor beat him even on the ground.

Tsunade landed a blow on Madara's clone. Madara saw him coming and didn't do anything. Same guy who reacted to A's punches, he even stated that Tsunade was slower.

Tsunade landed a blow on Orochimaru when she had a grab of his tounge which was Orochimaru's own fault for trying to beat Tsunade in a strength contest. In that situation he was incapable of dodging. 

Deidara isn't stupid, he bunshin feinted Sasuke, he outsmarted/outmanuevered Gaara, team Gai & Kakashi.


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sadly Tsunade isn't as fast as Sasuke, so she won't be able to catch Deidara nor beat him even on the ground.
> 
> Tsunade landed a blow on Madara's clone. Madara saw him coming and didn't do anything. Same guy who reacted to A's punches, he even stated that Tsunade was slower.
> 
> ...



You don't need to be as fast as Sasuke to land a blow on Deidara. Sasuke was blitzing Deidara. We've seen characters w/ a 3.5 and high Taijutsu stats keep pace w/ characters that have a 4.5 in speed before (Hidan vs Kakashi or Asuma for example).

Madara's Clone is likely fasters than Deidara. But no Tsunade also landed a blow on Madara's Susano'o, which he could not evade.

Tsunade did not have hold of his Tongue here:
*which allows things like this to happen*

He is stupid learn to accept cannon.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> You don't need to be as fast as Sasuke to land a blow on Deidara.


Yes you do.




> Sasuke was blitzing Deidara.


Almost.



> We've seen characters w/ a 3.5 and high Taijutsu stats keep pace w/ characters that have a 4.5 in speed before (Hidan vs Kakashi or Asuma for example).


Hidan kept up with them because he had weapon superiority and all of them were very brief engagements.

In Deidara's case he isn't a CQC fighter. So he'll just evade Tsunade for a short while and distance himself away, he doesn't need to keep fighting her.

Deidara was able to survive a brief skirmish with team Gai with no arms, a feat you deliberately ignore .



> Madara's Clone is likely fasters than Deidara. But no Tsunade also landed a blow on Madara's Susano'o, which he could not evade.


Madara doesn't evade when he has Susano'o. He tanks.




> Tsunade did not have hold of his Tongue here:
> *which allows things like this to happen*


He was standing literally next to her, had no arms to guard himself and he didn't expect Tsunade to get up from those wounds.
Tsunade tried to hit Kabuto and Orochimaru before, and they casually evaded her.

I think  you are goin a bit too overboard with the selective reading.



> [
> He is stupid learn to accept cannon.


Ok, you should accept that Tsunade is weaker than part 1 Kabuto.
You have to accept canon.

See I can use selective reading too


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Yes you do.


Where is that ever stated



> Almost.


No he did blitz Deidara. Deidara was lucky enough to have Obito to warn him and a C1 Model on hand to blow up and halt Sasuke's assault. After which Deidara immediately admits that Sasuke is definitely too fast for him.



> Hidan kept up with them because he had weapon superiority and all of them were very brief engagements.


Never once was Hidan's weapon cited as the reason he could keep up w/ Kakashi in the manga cannon. There are plenty of other examples beyond Hidan and there is nothing that says having a 1 point over someone in stats means you can never be hit by that person.



> In Deidara's case he isn't a CQC fighter. So he'll just evade Tsunade for a short while and distance himself away, he doesn't need to keep fighting her


When confronted w/ Sasuke's insane Speed and CQC ability, Deidara thought to himself gee I better stay on the ground and try to keep up w/ him via my C1:


By Diedara own admission and ohhh shit face, Sasuke's speed was incredibly fast and dangerous, yet he choose this as his course of action when confronted by that threat:



So why would Tsunade be any different?



> Deidara was able to survive a brief skirmish with team Gai with no arms, a feat you deliberately ignore .


You mean a team Gai who just spent hours fighting their exact copies and were noted in the manga cannon as being extremely exhausted right before they attempted to engage Deidara:


Do you mean Deidara deflecting and evading some Shuriken thrown by Tenten?


*Spoiler*: __ 









Take note of the SFX Shing indicating the deflection of a weapon in the first panel. Take not of the Shuriken than hitting the tree in the following panel, followed directly by a panel focusing on Tenten. Take not of the fact that the only person in team Gai that ever uses weapons is Tenten. Take note of the fact that not a single member of Team Gai, but Tenten is featured w/ a weapon capable of making that SFX before or after the panel in question:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Take note of the fact that Deidara specifically says he has no hope of escaping due to Team Gai showing up, which wouldn't make sense if he could outpace them in CQC or speed wise:



So yeah Deidara survived some weapons thrown by an exhausted Tenten. Do you want me to give him a cookie?



> Madara doesn't evade when he has Susano'o. He tanks.


And this is based on what exactly? Where did Madara say I have my Susano'o up no need to evade?



> He was standing literally next to her, had no arms to guard himself and he didn't expect Tsunade to get up from those wounds.


-Standing next to her; that's what CQC is
- Tsunade muscling through Orochimaru attacks and thank taking the initiative to land one of her own, is exactly what will happen against Deidara. Deidara will land more attacks than Tsunade as he's faster, but she will survive w/ Byakugo and than she'll eventually get a chance to land her own attack killing him.



> Tsunade tried to hit Kabuto and Orochimaru before, and they casually evaded her.


She was rusty and emotionally distraught. When Tsunade started getting serious Kishimoto had her hit Orochimaru in CQC twice. She also landed a blow on the speedy Manda w/ Bunta swords, granted Manda was distracted w/ Buta at the time, but Tsunade could always pull out a Katsuya to distract Deidara.



> Ok, you should accept that Tsunade is weaker than part 1 Kabuto.
> You have to accept canon.


I do accept that a rusty, emotionally distraught, hemophobic Tsunade is inferior to Part I Kabuto. Tsunade overcame these short comings, while Deidara never overcame his innate arrogance which leads to insane stupidity


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

> See I can use selective reading too


.
How is Deidara's stupidity selective reading? 

Deidara decides he'll fight the Shukaku jin on his home turf low on clay. Sasori warns Deidara to not go in w/ one bag of Clay:


This cause clear problems for Deidara in the Gaara fight:


Later Sasori once again highlights Deidara's stupidty:



Deidara hear's the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki is considerably strong:




Deidara decides its a good idea to take the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki on missing an arm and even lower on clay than the previous Jinchuuriki he just faced, which already turned out to be a bad idea:


Deidara finds out Sasuke defeated Orochimaru and still underestimates him, choosing to land a few meters away and shit talk about it:




Deidara notes Sasuke's incredibly speed:



Decides to try and keep up w/ him on the ground w/ C1:



This is all manga cannon and it's not even all of it

Also people sit here and accus me of selective reading, I wonder why all of these people are Itachi-fans; perhaps they are selectively reading Deidara as stronger because IDK they want to see this particular moment of stupidity on Deidara's part where he once again decides to fight on the ground w/ C1 against Itachi as more Itachi hype than an actually is:


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## Ghost (Jan 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> homophobic Tsunade


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> Where is that ever stated


Common sense. 



> No he did blitz Deidara. Deidara was lucky enough to have Obito to warn him and a C1 Model on hand to blow up and halt Sasuke's assault. After which Deidara immediately admits that Sasuke is definitely too fast for him.


So you agree that Itachi blitzed B. 
Nice.


But actually the first time around Deidara could move out of the way physically, it was Tobi who couldn't.
And Deidara reacting to Sasuke's second attempt with c1 is still considered a reaction feat.
Yes, I agree that Sasuke was too fast for Deidara and Deidara couldn't survive longer if he didn't go airborne.

Tsunade is nowhere near as fast as Sasuke, not even close, so Deidara will have no problems evading her though. So I don't see how the two instances are remotely comparable.

If Deidara had a habit of tanking stuff, then you'd have an argument.





> Never once was Hidan's weapon cited as the reason he could keep up w/ Kakashi in the manga cannon. There are plenty of other examples beyond Hidan and there is nothing that says having a 1 point over someone in stats means you can never be hit by that person.


I think Kisihmoto gives enough credibility to our intelligence so that he doesn't verbally explain everything he shows on panel.

They are in the same taijutsu tier, possibliy Hidan has the edge on both Asuma and Kakashi and his weapon is superior to theirs, both in terms of range and versatility. It is a bigger weapon and it can be used from a decent range.




> When confronted w/ Sasuke's insane Speed and CQC ability, Deidara thought to himself gee I better stay on the ground and try to keep up w/ him via my C1:
> 
> 
> By Diedara own admission and ohhh shit face, Sasuke's speed was incredibly fast and dangerous, yet he choose this as his course of action when confronted by that threat:


Because he was able to evade Sasuke in time. 
Being confident in ones ability doesn't mean stupidity. The moment he reailzied that he didn't stand a chance he went airborne. 




> So why would Tsunade be any different?


Because she isn't as fast as Sasuke ? 
What problem will she cause Deidara ? Unless Deidara decides to tank her, he can pretty much do all the things he wanted to do to Sasuke and get away with it.





> You mean a team Gai who just spent hours fighting their exact copies and were noted in the manga cannon as being extremely exhausted right before they attempted to engage Deidara:
> 
> 
> Do you mean Deidara deflecting and evading some Shuriken thrown by Tenten?
> ...



Thank you for proving my point on selective reading.

First off, the shuriken were thrown on the second panel. And in the first panel there is collision. Deidara has a Kunai in his mouth so he deflected them with it.

Second off, the most funny part, is that this is the Deidara who fought and defeated Kazekage, lost 2 of his arms and got beat up by Kn0 Naruto. 
And you want to discard his feat because team Gai were "tired." ? 

I'll go ahead and say something crazy. Deidara was in a worse condition than team Gai....







> And this is based on what exactly? Where did Madara say I have my Susano'o up no need to evade?


When did Madara try to evade anything when he had his Susano'o up ? 

Are you really suggesting that a guy who can react to A couldn't react to Tsunade ? 
Madara was dicking around the whole time. He basically let Tsunade hit him because he didn't give a darn.





> -Standing next to her; that's what CQC is
> - Tsunade muscling through Orochimaru attacks and thank taking the initiative to land one of her own, is exactly what will happen against Deidara. Deidara will land more attacks than Tsunade as he's faster, but she will survive w/ Byakugo and than she'll eventually get a chance to land her own attack killing him.


No, Deidara won't engage her in taijutsu... He'll probably bombard Tsuande with the stuff he used on Sasuke or Itachi. Why would he engage her physically ? Deidara has never done anything like it.
You are just assuming Deidara will do stuff he has never done or capable of doing. 




> She was rusty and emotionally distraught. When Tsunade started getting serious Kishimoto had her hit Orochimaru in CQC twice. She also landed a blow on the speedy Manda w/ Bunta swords, granted Manda was distracted w/ Buta at the time, but Tsunade could always pull out a Katsuya to distract Deidara.



She was serious when she first engaged Oro & Kabuto. When she shook off bloodphobia and regenerated her wounds, thats what caught Orochimaru off guard.
And her second hit is totally Orochimaru's fault. He tried to strangle her with his tounge, someone who is much stronger physically, and got his face caved in as a result. 

And no, Distracting Deidara with Katsuyu won't allow her to catch him as Tsunade is nowhere near as fast as Sasuke.




> I do accept that a rusty, emotionally distraught, hemophobic Tsunade is inferior to Part I Kabuto. Tsunade overcame these short comings, while Deidara never overcame his innate arrogance which leads to insane stupidity


Well my selective reading disagrees.
Despite all of Tsunade's better feats, I'll choose to focus on his battle against Kabuto.
I hope it is ok with you


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 9, 2014)

Turrin said:


> .
> How is Deidara's stupidity selective reading?
> 
> Deidara decides he'll fight the Shukaku jin on his home turf low on clay. Sasori warns Deidara to not go in w/ one bag of Clay:
> ...



Deidara is cocky, but that doesn't mean he is stupid. These two are different things.

I repeat once more. 
Deidara outsmarted and outplayed Gaara in Gaara's own hometurf. He came up with a technique to counter sharingan dojutsu, he bunshin feinted and nearly killed team Gai and Team Kakashi had it not been for Kakashi's absurdly fast Kamui feat.

Deidara has shown battle smarts and skill. Just because he is cocky(and he was cock against Sasuke whom he thought was a brat) doesn't mean he'll show the same cockiness against the Hokage.

Btw Deidara thought that he could defeat Orochimaru himself and stated t hat more than once pretty casually. So I don't think Sasuke defeating Orochimaru would give him enough crediblity to be a threat to Deidara from his point of view.

I deleted some of your images because it doesn't allow to post more than 10 images and I can't use emotes


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Common sense.


It's common sense that Deidara who is only a measly 1 point higher in speed can seamlessly evade every single attack from Tsunade, despite her being able to muscle through his attacks w/ Byakugo, utilize her punches to break his foot-hold, summon out Katsuya to surround/distract him, use her far greater chakra to empower a more swift shunshin,  etc... 



> So you agree that Itachi blitzed B.
> Nice.


I must have forgot the scene where Sasuke pulled out two Boss Summons to block LOS, used the opertunity to get behind Deidara, at which point Deidara did not need to blow up a bomb to barely escape the assault, but just casually attacked Sasuke before he reached him forcing him back. 



> But actually the first time around Deidara could move out of the way physically, it was Tobi who couldn't.


The first time Sasuke was aiming for Obito; now Deidara:


So yes let's praise Deidara for evading an attack that wasn't even aimed at him 



> And Deidara reacting to Sasuke's second attempt with c1 is still considered a reaction feat.


He was warned:


Was only able to escape by a hairs breath because he happened to have a C1 bomb on hand at the time:

*Spoiler*: __ 








Hardly a reaction feat to be proud of.



> Yes, I agree that Sasuke was too fast for Deidara and Deidara couldn't survive longer if he didn't go airborne.


Deidara couldn't have survived at all, if Obito wasn't around to warn him and he didn't happen to have a C1 bomb on hand. 



> Tsunade is nowhere near as fast as Sasuke, not even close, so Deidara will have no problems evading her though. So I don't see how the two instances are remotely comparable.


You brought up this instance.



> I think Kisihmoto gives enough credibility to our intelligence so that he doesn't verbally explain everything he shows on panel.


Grimjow if you'd have me believe that Hidan having a weapon w/ greater reach suddenly makes it so despite him having the same speed stat is Tsunade he can keep up w/ someone like Kakashi who has the same speed stat as Deidara, Sharingan, and superior Taijutsu skill; while w/o said weapon Kakashi would have been able to completely outpace Hidan w/o Hidan being able to ever even touch him in CQC; than yes that begs an explanation on the part of the author as the difference the weapon is making in that instance is massive. 



> They are in the same taijutsu tier, possibliy Hidan has the edge on both Asuma and Kakashi and his weapon is superior to theirs, both in terms of range and versatility. It is a bigger weapon and it can be used from a decent range.


Tsunade has a massive advantage over Deidara in Taijutsu and she clearly has the strength to twirl a tree around like a mace (that would have much greater reach than Hidan's weapon), if reaches makes that much of a difference. Tsunade has even shown the propensity to do something like that when she picked up Bunta's sword during the Sannin duel. Additionally Tsunade at any time could summon out Katsuya on-top of Deidara, again expanding her reach significantly.



> Because he was able to evade Sasuke in time.


He wasn't. He was warned by Obito and was lucky enough to have a C1 Bomb on hand to halt Sasuke's attack. There was no evading involved.



> Being confident in ones ability doesn't mean stupidity. The moment he reailzied that he didn't stand a chance he went airborne.


If one is arrogant to the point of making mistakes that they only survive due to outside help and luck, than yes that is stupidity born of arrogance. Deidara had just witnessed Sasuke's speed and choosing to continue to engage him w/ C1 was a poor decision, one which he later acknowledge and moved to C2.



> Because she isn't as fast as Sasuke ?
> What problem will she cause Deidara ? Unless Deidara decides to tank her, he can pretty much do all the things he wanted to do to Sasuke and get away with it.


I mean that we shouldn't expect Deidara to do anything differently than against Sasuke. He's likely still going to stay on the ground and try to match her w/ C1. During this point Tsunade kills him as he won't have Obito around and C1 explosion (if he's lucky enough to have one on hand) won't make Tsunade halt her attack as she can muscle through it w/ Byakugo. As for how she hits him I already explained how she could do it in the above points.



> Thank you for proving my point on selective reading.
> 
> First off, the shuriken were thrown on the second panel. And in the first panel there is collision. Deidara has a Kunai in his mouth so he deflected them with it.


The first panel is the weapons being thrown towards Deidara (w/ him deflecting one), second is them hitting the tree, and the third is to demonstrate it was Tenten that threw them.

You accuse me of selective reading, but your interpretation of this encounter is a prime example of just that. You selectively choose to ignore the

- Shing SFX, which indicates a clash of weapons in the first panel
- that tenten is the only member of Team Gai that typically uses weapons or in this case is even feature w/ weapons at any point during the encounter
-  that all members of Team Gai were exhausted
- that the only panel that could possible feature a "clash" is the first one and it is a single clash, yet you stated that Deidara skirmished w/ all of Team Gai, despite it clearly only being one individual and only one single clash.

This stances is completely rooted in selective reading. While the only realistic interpretation of events is that ether Deidara deflected Tenten's thrown weapon in that panel or the person he clashed w/ was indeed Tenten; as she is thee only one using weapons that could have clashed w/ Deidara's mouth Kunai to create the Shing SFX out of all of Team Gai.

There is no way the author wants us to see this as some godly feat 



> Second off, the most funny part, is that this is the Deidara who fought and defeated Kazekage, lost 2 of his arms and got beat up by Kn0 Naruto.
> And you want to discard his feat because team Gai were "tired." ?
> 
> I'll go ahead and say something crazy. Deidara was in a worse condition than team Gai....


No I am discarding the exchange because both combatants where not nearly at their peak condition. And honestly if it would be beneficial to my argument to count this exchange as legit as it shows Deidara being unable to evade all of Tenten's attacks; a character w/ the same speed stat as Tsunade (3.5).

So I'm being more than fair to Deidara here.



> When did Madara try to evade anything when he had his Susano'o up ?
> 
> Are you really suggesting that a guy who can react to A couldn't react to Tsunade ?
> Madara was dicking around the whole time. He basically let Tsunade hit him because he didn't give a darn.


No I'm suggesting Madara underestimated Tsunade and therefore didn't make the move to dodge until it was too late. Madara does a similar thing when he thinks Tsunade has been greatly wounded by Susano'o sword allowing Tsunade to land another blow on him and forcing him to use Susano'o to defend. Basically i'm arguing that a-lot of things can happen in battle and just because someone is fast that doesn't mean they will never be touched once by a character who can sit back and muscle through most of their attacks waiting for the right opportunity to strike.



> No, Deidara won't engage her in taijutsu... He'll probably bombard Tsuande with the stuff he used on Sasuke or Itachi. Why would he engage her physically ? Deidara has never done anything like it.
> You are just assuming Deidara will do stuff he has never done or capable of doing.


When did I say he'd engage her physically? I said that Deidara would use C1 on the ground against her, but Tsunade is more than capable of muscling her way through that to tag Deidara.



> She was serious when she first engaged Oro & Kabuto.


She was serious, but still clearly emotionally distraught and indicated to be rusty. 



> When she shook off bloodphobia and regenerated her wounds, thats what caught Orochimaru off guard.


Yeah she muscled through his attacks and landed one of her own. I'm not sure what your not getting about the fact that I said Deidara would also land attacks on her multiple times before she got a chance to land one on him. I acknowledge that he's faster and can probably land several blows on her until she is able to take him off guard or time an attack correctly after observing and memorizing his movements. I don't think she is going to be blitzing him.



> And her second hit is totally Orochimaru's fault. He tried to strangle her with his tounge, someone who is much stronger physically, and got his face caved in as a result.


And I would not be shocked by Deidara doing something equally or even more dramatically stupid than that. Hell I can't even be sure Deidara is going to show up to this battle w/ more than a single bag of clay prepared 



> And no, Distracting Deidara with Katsuyu won't allow her to catch him as Tsunade is nowhere near as fast as Sasuke.


Sasuke didn't need to distract Deidara. I'd love to see these feats from Deidara that suggest he could evade hundreds of Mini-Katsuya attempting to meld to or melt his body, while at the same time avoid Tsunade's strikes. Or alternatively a giant boss Katsuya using large wave of acid, while at the same time avoid Tsunade attacking him from a blind spot. In a similar scenario against the ambush squad where Deidara had enemies in-front of him, he allowed Sai to get behind him and stike w/ his neo; Katsuya is even more dangerous/distracting than Kankuro/Omoi, so I have little doubt she can serve enough of a distraction to allow Tsunade a moment to strike Deidara. I've list other methods for Tsunade striking him above as well though.



> Well my selective reading disagrees.
> Despite all of Tsunade's better feats, I'll choose to focus on his battle against Kabuto.
> I hope it is ok with you


Well your is just that selective reading. As Tsunade got over her hemophobia, being emotionally distraught, and being rusty. Deidara did not have any weaknesses in the ambush Squad battle, in-fact he was improved as an Edo Tensei. 



> Deidara is cocky, but that doesn't mean he is stupid. These two are different things.


To me if someone is cocky to the point where they make incredibly stupid decisions; they are stupid.


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## Turrin (Jan 9, 2014)

> I repeat once more.
> Deidara outsmarted and outplayed Gaara in Gaara's own hometurf.


LOL... Deidara got lucky as shit against Gaara. Deidara was being owned by Gaara; lost and arm and down to his last C1 attack:



Than he decided to gamble on Gaara using his sand to block C3. He got lucky that Gaara was kind enough that he sacrificed himself for Sungakure. Something that ultimately Deidara admits even shocked him:



So even he clearly thought his chances of Gaara going for his gambit were slim and that he got lucky as shit that Gaara turned out to be much different from the other Jinchuuriki he'd seen.

Basically Deidara went in ill prepared due to stupidty, got his ass handed to him, gambled on something he thought had a slim chance of success, and manage to come out on top due to getting lucky; and you want me to see this as an intelligence feat 



> He came up with a technique to counter sharingan dojutsu,


So Gai who has an even better Sharingan counter Technique by learning to fight by looking at someones feat is a brilliant genius 



> he bunshin feinted and nearly killed team Gai and Team Kakashi had it not been for Kakashi's absurdly fast Kamui feat.


So pulling off a Bushin Fient when Naruto was going bersekr and Kakashi was distracted w/ that. Is suppose to be some amazing feat. The guy came out of the scuffle down another arm and having to run the hell away due to thinking he could fight so ill prepared it's ridiculous, this is a good performance to you, that indicates intelligence 



> Deidara has shown battle smarts and skill. Just because he is cocky(and he was cock against Sasuke whom he thought was a brat) doesn't mean he'll show the same cockiness against the Hokage.


He showed the same cockiness against a man he thought beat Orochimaru and possessed the same blood as Itachi who he was also cocky against and got manhandled. He showed the same cockiness against the Shukaku Jin - Kazekage, on his home turph. He showed the same cockiness against the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki despite having heard the Kyuubi Jin was very stronger.

I have no doubt in my mind that the Hokage title won't mean dick to Deidara.



> Btw Deidara thought that he could defeat Orochimaru himself and stated t hat more than once pretty casually. So I don't think Sasuke defeating Orochimaru would give him enough crediblity to be a threat to Deidara from his point of view.


Deidara thought he could beat anyone even in exremely ill prepared states; this yet again is another demonstration of Deidara's stupidity; that he was so confident in his victory over Orochimaru and that he would give no credibility to an Uchiha who beat Orochimaru, despite being previously raped by another powerful Uchiha. You are just supporting my point even further.


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## Doge (Jan 9, 2014)

If Deidara has full knowledge he'll have 0 intention of not taking flight.  He did it against Gaara and played evasively, no reason he wouldn't do it here.


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## Jad (Jan 9, 2014)

It's funny, people say Gai doesn't use a Kunai, but then they turn around and say he does use a Kunai against Deidara. People........


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