# 14 year old Obito vs 13 year old Itachi



## joshhookway (Jul 27, 2013)

Location: sannin field
Distance: 20 meter
Knowledge: none
SOM: IC for Itachi, BL for Obito
Restrictions: None


This is the 14 year old Obito that slaughtered the mist fodder.

This is the 13 year old Itachi who slaughtered the Uchiha. Itachi gets all his MS jutsu.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Didn't 14-year old Obito have the speed to step with Minato?


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## Trojan (Jul 27, 2013)

obito fodderize itachi.


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## trance (Jul 27, 2013)

Obito phases through all of Itachi's jutsu via Kamui and skewers him via Mokuton.


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## Kaiser (Jul 27, 2013)

He summons Kyubi. GG


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## Sadgoob (Jul 27, 2013)

This is basically Itachi vs Obito, except Obito's immature, irrational, and imo less skilled in virtually all areas. IIRC, this was before Madara trained and taught him all of his secrets.​


Rocky said:


> Didn't 14-year old Obito have the speed to step with Minato?



Nah, that was a few years later.​


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Nah, that was a few years later.​



If Naruto's 16 now, the attack would've been 16 years prior. That put's Obito at 14, no? Well, assuming he's the same age as Kakashi.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 27, 2013)

Itachi remains calm and cool, and figures out Obito's phasing during his shuriken assault, and then exploits the timing gap with his 3 tomoe sharingan precog and natural reflexes to land a counter.  

Or Obito looks into his eyes and gets put down with genjutsu.  Roasty toasty.


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## trance (Jul 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Nah, that was a few years later.​



The Kyubi attack was 16 years ago. Kakashi is 30 years old now. Obito is roughly the same age. So, he was 14 when he clashed with Minato.


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## Kaiser (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> If Naruto's 16 now, the attack would've been 16 years prior. That put's Obito at 14, no? *Well, assuming he's the same age as Kakashi.*


Which he isn't. Kakashi's age during the gaiden was never given. Only Obito's was, but judging by the fact they graduated from the academy at the same time, when it's stated Kakashi was 5 when Obito was 9, it means Obito is 4years older


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## trance (Jul 27, 2013)

Blake said:


> Which he isn't. Kakashi's age during the gaiden was never given. Only Obito's was, but judging by the fact they graduated from the academy at the same time, when it's stated Kakashi was 5 when Obito was 9, it means Obito is 4years older



Kakashi was promoted to Jonin when he was 13 which was during the events of Kakashi Gaiden. Obito "died" when he was 13.


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## Kaiser (Jul 27, 2013)

Trance said:


> Kakashi was promoted to Jonin when he was 13 which was during the events of Kakashi Gaiden. Obito "died" when he was 13.


His age was never mentioned when he became jounin so far i know


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## iJutsu (Jul 27, 2013)

Obito dies. He doesn't have zetsuit, so his body breaks down the moment Itachi shunshins past him and the wind reaches him.


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## Ghost (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Didn't 14-year old Obito have the speed to step with Minato?



Obito was around 17 at that time. Guy and Kakashi looked way older than 14 in those flashbacks.

Also Obito had good reaction speed then. Nothing suggests that his movement speed was near Minato's.


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## ShadowReaper (Jul 27, 2013)

Itachi is more experienced, is a better H2H fighter and significantly more profficient with Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. Obito's Kamui can be a real challenge, but Itachi is a quick learner and will quickly realize his weakness.


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## tanman (Jul 27, 2013)

OP specified this was Rin-rage Obito.
I would give it to Itachi. He managed to massacre his clan without raising any alarms, which is pretty impressive. He should be able to observe Kamui and evade Obito's mokuton until he finds the right time to put a well-placed Amaterasu on him. At this point, both of Obito's techniques were very immature and volatile.

If we move the conversation to the Obito that fought Minato, then Obito should be a solid bit above Itachi physically. His Kamui is more refined, so he probably won't go down from Amaterasu. Mokuton, however, is seemingly absent from his moveset in favor of a chain and kunai (why, I don't know). But neither will really do much to Itachi's Susano'o. So it really depends on Itachi's stamina with Susano'o at this point in his life.


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## Okodi (Jul 27, 2013)

Obito probably takes this. I don't understand how people are using the fact that Itachi killed his own clan without taking into consideration that *Itachi got help from Obito!* So using the feat that Itachi has of killing his own clan is a double edged sword, as it favors both of them. Sasuke deduced that Itachi got helped and Itachi confirmed that Tobi/Obito helped him.

Itachi didn't figure out Obito's abilities even though he had gotten helped by him and known about his existence for a long time. Amaterasu failing to kill Obito is proof of that. Since you say that Itachi gets all his MS skills I assume Susanoo and the artifacts are included. Totsuka isn't going to affect Obito since it doesn't follow Obito into his dimension. When Obito fought the Mist ANBU they were about 50 fighters present [1] and they were all ANBU or Jounin level [2]. I don't know how big the Uchiha clan was in Konoha, but I assume they had about the same number of capable ninjas (around 50-60 high-end fighters) seeing how the Sarutobi displayed about 15 ninjas in these pages [1][2] and even if the Uchihas had higher numbers they woud still be divided between Obito and Itachi during the massacre.

*Obito is going to win this battle with high diffuctly due to:*
Itachi not figuring out Obito's abilities (Amaterasu failed)
Itachi didn't conduct the massacre himself
> (Obito helped him)
The number of capable Uchiha is the same as the Mist-nins
> (Obito dealt with Mist-nins himself)
Totsuka can't affect Obito due to him phasing
> (Doesn't enter his dimension)
Susano'o and Yata no Mi won't help against phasing

Itachi is going to pick up on things quickly, but seeing how Amaterasu failed on Obito after years of knowing about Obito, Itachi might not come up with a counter strategy in time.


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## joshhookway (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> If Naruto's 16 now, the attack would've been 16 years prior. That put's Obito at 14, no? Well, assuming he's the same age as Kakashi.



he's not the same age as kakashi. Kakashi became a genin at age 5. Obito became at 9.

Obito is 34 right now. 16 years ago means Obito was 18 back then.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Itachi remains calm and cool, and figures out Obito's phasing during his shuriken assault, and then exploits the timing gap with his 3 tomoe sharingan precog and natural reflexes to land a counter.
> 
> Or Obito looks into his eyes and gets put down with genjutsu.  Roasty toasty.



^I'm going with this answer, minus the Genjutsu part (I don't think Itachi at this age could put down a fellow MS user with just Genjutsu; he wasn't able to put Orochimaru down with his three-tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu alone, and I doubt even Tsukuyomi will take Obito down).

Itachi may or may not have also known Izanami by this point, which a repetetive Jutsu like Kamui is easily exploitable for.

But even without that, Itachi is still smarter than Obito by leaps and bounds; he's gonna dominate and control this fight.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> he's not the same age as kakashi. Kakashi became a genin at age 5. Obito became at 9.
> 
> Obito is 34 right now. 16 years ago means Obito was 18 back then.



Obito is the same age as Kakashi; it's not relevant when they became Genin.

Both were 12 during the Kakashi Gaiden. That puts Obito at around 13 or 14 during the Kyuubi attack.


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## αce (Jul 27, 2013)

Just going to say - you shouldn't make arguments based on how old people look. Kishi is shit at drawing ages properly.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Obito is the same age as Kakashi; it's not relevant when they became Genin.
> 
> Both were 12 during the Kakashi Gaiden. That puts Obito at around 13 or 14 during the Kyuubi attack.



The Masked Man was pretty much the same character as Pre-Rinnegan Obito. Or at least, they demonstrated similar proficiency with Kamui.

The only Mangekyou Jutsu we've seen young Itachi use is Tsukuyomi, and Obito won't have trouble with illusions. We're left to speculate Itachi's own proficiency with the Mangekyou, and it _is_ new to him.

For example, what stage of Susano'o does he have?


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> The Masked Man was pretty much the same character as Pre-Rinnegan Obito. Or at least, they demonstrated similar proficiency with Kamui.



It's hard to judge that based on what little he actually displayed and the fact that his opponent is blindingly hyped.



> The only Mangekyou Jutsu we've seen young Itachi use is Tsukuyomi, and Obito won't have trouble with illusions. We're left to speculate Itachi's own proficiency with the Mangekyou, and it _is_ new to him.



The OP allowed all of Itachi's MS Jutsu, so that isn't an issue.

Besides that, Itachi said he awakened all three of his MS Jutsu on the same day.



> For example, what stage of Susano'o does he have?



Who knows? Who cares? You really think Susano'o is gonna matter against Obito's Kamui? The most valuable thing Itachi can do with it, probably, is attack with sudden flash-activations of the hands when aiming for Obito's materialization interval.


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## Vice (Jul 27, 2013)

Obito roflstomps Itachi via more powerful eyes, speed and Kamui hax.


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

Vice said:


> Obito roflstomps Itachi via more powerful eyes, speed and Kamui hax.



Itachi is just as fast and can exploit Kamui like everybody else.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is just as fast.



Itachi has no speed _or_ reaction time feats at this age.


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## Vice (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is just as fast and can exploit Kamui like everybody else.



Everybody else? Everybody else is just Kakashi who can perform Kamui as well. And what speed feats does 13-year-old Itachi possess, pray tell?

Oh yeah, Obito has mokuton too, so there's also that.


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## Sadgoob (Jul 27, 2013)

Kakashi hyped 13 year old ANBU Itachi to be stronger than what 17 year old Itachi showed in part one. The chronology of the events proves as much, given that he'd only known Itachi in ANBU.

Moreover, Kakashi was speaking of Itachi's general skills when saying that Itachi wasn't even using half his strength, because he later said "it can't be?!" when Itachi hinted about the Mangekyō.​


Rocky said:


> Itachi has no speed _or_ reaction time feats at this age.



He blitzed three elite (three-tomoe) Sharingan users. Ninja that other villages ordered to never be engaged if not outnumbering them. So yeah, that's an awesome speed feat.

It was also implied that he scared Orochimaru pretty badly when making him flee Akatsuki, which I don't think wuld be the case if Orochimaru (with 4.5/5 speed) could blitz him.​


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Itachi has no speed _or_ reaction time feats at this age.



Blitzing elite Uchiha Jounin with three-tomoe Sharingan, not getting blitzed by Orochimaru (and actually capturing him in Genjutsu), apparently avoiding Deidara's C1 explosion _through a wall_ before it detonated, and clearing 8-year-old Sasuke's entire field of vision before he could look up.



Vice said:


> Everybody else? Everybody else is just Kakashi who can perform Kamui as well.



And Konan with an improvised suicide bombing attack.

And Torune with his body-covering insects.

And Minato with Hiraishin+Rasengan.

And Naruto with Kage Bunshin.



> And what speed feats does 13-year-old Itachi possess, pray tell?



Listed 'em. You will probably try to come up with reasons why they don't count or aren't impressive, but they are there.



> Oh yeah, Obito has mokuton too, so there's also that.



Obito has to materialize to attack. That gives Itachi an opening with Amaterasu from a safe distance.


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## Senkou (Jul 27, 2013)

First i'd like to say....  A 14 YEAR OLD HANDELED MINATO.  

*On topic:*  Itachi murks Obito. He wrecked his entire clan whom many had sharingan as well. Even wrecked Shisui(implied) who was seen as a genius. Obito gets bodied.

TS said Obito who slaughtered the mist fodder. _Not_ Obito that fought Minato. So it's irrelevant what abilities he had during he Minato fight.

Itachi wins.


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## butcher50 (Jul 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Nah, that was a few years later.



this is where Kishi's sense of his own story's timeline got genuinely screwed up. (plausibility-wise)

without factoring in the Zetsu Suit and Madara's mental imprinting, it's a plot-hole.

pretty much the biggest and only reason why i'm annoyed with Obito's reveal.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Kakashi hyped 13 year old ANBU Itachi to be stronger than what 17 year old Itachi showed in part one. The chronology of the events proves as much, given that he'd only known Itachi in ANBU.



What Itachi showed in his debut is not even close, I repeat, not even _close_ enough to what is necessary to bring down Obito.



> Moreover, Kakashi was speaking of Itachi's general skills when saying that Itachi wasn't even using half his strength, because he later said "it can't be?!" when Itachi hinted about the Mangekyō.



Kakashi knew Itachi should've been better, and he was right.

What does this have to do with Obito anyway? I would consider 13 Year old Itachi good enough to keep up with Kakashi just fine.



> He blitzed three elite (three-tomoe) Sharingan users. The level of ninja that other villages said not to be challenged without outnumbering them. So yeah, that's an awesome speed feat.​



He beat them up in Taijutsu, with his own Sharingan. He didn't Lee their Gaara. They're also (high-end) fodder like every other nameless Shinobi in the Manga. We've been through this.

Obito stepped with *Minato*. Even though his movement speed didn't compare, his reflexes did. That's indefinitely better than keeping up with featless Uchiha.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 27, 2013)

ShadowReaper said:


> Itachi is more experienced, is a better H2H fighter and significantly more profficient with Ninjutsu and Genjutsu. Obito's Kamui can be a real challenge, but Itachi is a quick learner and will quickly realize his weakness.


Itachi was around Obito for literally _years_ and couldn't find out Kamui's weakness. Sorry 'Itachi is a quick learner and thus, since he's Itachi, will quickly realize his weakness' isn't an argument. And better than Obito in genjutsu: who at age 15 did a genjutsu feat only Madara was capable of-genjutsuing Kurama? And ninjutsu? Yeah, Obito has Mokuton, massive Katons, Kamui, stamina that trumps Itachi. And Itachi's more experienced and a better Taijutsu fighter, really?


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## Vice (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Blitzing elite Uchiha Jounin with three-tomoe Sharingan



Obito almost matched Minato in speed. Try again.



> not getting blitzed by Orochimaru (and actually capturing him in Genjutsu)



Yeah, that Orochimaru was totally trying to blitz Itachi what with sneaking up behind him quietly and all.



> apparently avoiding Deidara's C1 explosion _through a wall_ before it detonated



Again, Obito almost matched Minato's speed. Also doesn't need to dodge Deidara's explosions, what with Kamui and all.



> and clearing 8-year-old Sasuke's entire field of vision before he could look up.



8-year-old Sasuke. Cute.



> And Konan with an improvised suicide bombing attack.



With loads of prep time that Itachi doesn't have and a jutsu Itachi doesn't possess. 



> And Torune with his body-covering insects.



Which ultimately failed.



> And Minato with Hiraishin+Rasengan.



Itachi can't hope to match his speed.



> And Naruto with Kage Bunshin.



And Kakashi, which Itachi doesn't have here.



> Listed 'em. You will probably try to come up with reasons why they don't count or aren't impressive, but they are there.



Don't really need to seeing as how Obito's feats against Minato trump them anyway.



> Obito has to materialize to attack. That gives Itachi an opening with Amaterasu from a safe distance.



Amaterasu that Obito has already laughed off. Amaterasu that hasn't done jack shit to anyone of note in this manga.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Blitzing elite Uchiha Jounin with three-tomoe Sharingan



He took out 3 Uchiha fodder with Taijutsu. So what...???

Regardless of their abilities, Kishimoto disregards nameless fodder. Fodders were afraid to blink because they might have missed Minato taking out _entire divisions_ worth of other fodder in that timeframe. Go ahead, blink. You just missed the death of 50 men. That's the level of fodder. The Sharingan doesn't do much for me when that's the treatment fodder gets.




> not getting blitzed by Orochimaru (and actually capturing him in Genjutsu),



For all we know, Orochimaru might have just looked in Itachi's eyes. The two had no injurues, so it didn't appear there was even a fight prior to the scene. Orochimaru isn't a speedster anyway, and "not getting blitzed" isn't a speed feat.



> apparently avoiding Deidara's C1 explosion _through a wall_ before it detonated



I thought all of that was Genjutsu?



> and clearing 8-year-old Sasuke's entire field of vision before he could look up.



Really.


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## Vice (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh wait, just realized there are no restrictions. This thread has no become entirely pointless.

Obito brings the Kyuubi with him and fodder-stomps Itachi even worse than he would have regardless.


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## Sadgoob (Jul 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Obito stepped with *Minato*. Even though his movement speed didn't compare, his reflexes did. That's indefinitely better than keeping up with featless Uchiha.



Not this Obito. This was before Obito was trained by Madara. He berserked on a bunch of mist ninja, but it was another few years before he went after Minato. 

But imo part I Itachi showed plenty to take down Obito, and Obito being cautious of Itachi, particularly Amaterasu and Itachi's intellect, indicates that he viewed Itachi as a highly perilous opponent as well.​


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## Nikushimi (Jul 27, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi was around Obito for literally _years_ and couldn't find out Kamui's weakness.



Do you have evidence to back that up? No, you don't, but I'll give you a fair chance to prove me wrong anyway. I'm a nice guy, after all.

Obito said he managed to keep some secrets "even from Itachi," so evidently he didn't have many things Itachi didn't know about.

And given that Konan figured out how Kamui works, it's not really hard to imagine that Itachi did too.



> Sorry 'Itachi is a quick learner and thus, since he's Itachi, will quickly realize his weakness' isn't an argument.



Actually, it is. That is exactly the argument. Itachi being a quick learner and extremely intelligent both work in his favor towards his chances of figuring out Kamui. That's just...objectively true. If he weren't as smart, his chances would be worse.



> And better than Obito in genjutsu: who at age 15 did a genjutsu feat only Madara was capable of-genjutsuing Kurama?



Obito had MS; Itachi does, too. That allows for Kyuubi control.



> And ninjutsu? Yeah, Obito has Mokuton, massive Katons, Kamui,



Amaterasu beats anything Obito has, offensively-speaking, and can be used to exploit Kamui when it materializes Obito.



> stamina that trumps Itachi.



That's not a Ninjutsu, but okay. Granted.



> And Itachi's more experienced and a better Taijutsu fighter, really?



...Yeah. Based on what they've shown, Itachi's Taijutsu feats are much more impressive, which of course you will deny.

Now, unlike you, I will admit this: IT COULD GO EITHER WAY. Kishimoto could easily give Obito a 5 in all physical stats (Taijutsu, Power, Speed) in the next databook.

However, purely based on performance, Itachi has displayed better agility and technique; it's not even a contest. Itachi's reaction to Sasuke's rigged trap shuriken is a more skillfull display of coordination than anything Obito's ever done physically.



Vice said:


> Obito almost matched Minato in speed. Try again.



"Almost" means he didn't.



> Yeah, that Orochimaru was totally trying to blitz Itachi what with sneaking up behind him quietly and all.



>Implying Orochimaru could've blitzed Itachi if he had wanted to.

My sides.



> Again, Obito almost matched Minato's speed.



If he was slower then what are you trying to argue, really?



> Also doesn't need to dodge Deidara's explosions, what with Kamui and all.



That's completely irrelevant to the issue, given that Itachi cannot use Kamui and had to avoid the attack physically.



> 8-year-old Sasuke. Cute.



A jet moving at supersonic speeds at a comparable distance could not replicate that feat in the eyes of a normal human.



> With loads of prep time that Itachi doesn't have and a jutsu Itachi doesn't possess.



Konan's suicide attack did not require prep time; she just made explosive tags with her paper body and rammed into Obito when he tried to absorb her.



> Which ultimately failed.



Obito lost an arm, so no.



> Itachi can't hope to match his speed.



Neither could Obito, apparently.



> And Kakashi, which Itachi doesn't have here.



Kakashi was only acted as Naruto's transport to Box Land, which Obito himself is also capable of (meaning Kakashi's participation is not necessary; if Obito warped the Naruto clone, it would go to the same place).



> Don't really need to seeing as how Obito's feats against Minato trump them anyway.



There's no objective way to quantify them with respect to each other, but there's no visibly significant difference between Obito's speed and Itachi's. Ever.



> Amaterasu that Obito has already laughed off.



Thanks to Izanagi.



> Amaterasu that hasn't done jack shit to anyone of note in this manga.



The Hachibi is pretty noteworthy. So is Nagato.

Not that a Jutsu's on-panel track record is anything to judge it by (given that Jinton and Konan's Paper Ocean have never killed anyone).



Rocky said:


> He took out 3 Uchiha fodder with Taijutsu. So what...???



What Strat said. Also, the second databook referred to them as the clan's strongest unit.



> Regardless of their abilities, Kishimoto disregards nameless fodder. Fodders were afraid to blink because they might have missed Minato taking out _entire divisions_ worth of other fodder.



Err, these were elite fodder. "Fodder" is relative to the one fodderizing.



> For all we know, Orochimaru might have just looked in Itachi's eyes. The two had no injurues, so it didn't appear there was even a fight prior to the scene.



That seems to be the case.



> Orochimaru isn't a speedster anyway,



False; he's got a 4.5 in that area.



> and "not getting blitzed" isn't a speed feat.



Yes it is, since evasion is apparently a viable method to avoid Genjutsu.



> I thought all of that was Genjutsu?



When the Genjutsu ended, there was a giant hole in the wall and Itachi was standing in it on the other side.



> Really.



I love how surprised you are. Like you don't understand the significance of escaping a person's field of vision before they can turn their head.



Vice said:


> Oh wait, just realized there are no restrictions. This thread has no become entirely pointless.
> 
> Obito brings the Kyuubi with him and fodder-stomps Itachi even worse than he would have regardless.



Assuming he has acquired it from Kushina during childbirth. Although he lost it on the same night, so...this is kind of like giving Itachi Kotoamatsukami.

Of course, if we're doing that, then I'm totally game for this idea.


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## Vice (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Obito had MS; Itachi does, too. That allows for Kyuubi control.



lol @ anyone who argues that the Battledome has a "feats only" restriction. I guess it's only feats only when it supports the person we're trying to wank.

Itachi has never, at any point in the manga, shown he has the ability to control the Kyuubi. What happened to that baseless supposition bullshit you were spouting earlier?



> "Almost" means he didn't.
> 
> If he was slower then what are you trying to argue, really?



Because slower than Minato is still faster than Itachi.



> >Implying Orochimaru could've blitzed Itachi if he had wanted to.
> 
> My sides.



I'm not implying anything, you're the one who called it an Orochimaru blitz.



> That's completely irrelevant to the issue, given that Itachi cannot use Kamui and had to avoid the attack physically.



That's completely irrelevant to the issue given that Deidara's C1 isn't as fast as Minato.



> A jet moving at supersonic speeds at a comparable distance could not replicate that feat in the eyes of a normal human.



What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Blitzing an 8-year-old not even a genin Sasuke means jack shit against Obito.



> Konan's suicide attack did not require prep time; she just made explosive tags with her paper body and rammed into Obito when he tried to absorb her.



Kay. What does this have to do with Itachi?



> Obito lost an arm, so no.



And then laughed it off and got a new one. If the best Itachi can do is take an arm with him, whoopee.



> Neither could Obito, apparently.



Still faster than Itachi,



> Kakashi was only acted as Naruto's transport to Box Land, which Obito himself is also capable of (meaning Kakashi's participation is not necessary; if Obito warped the Naruto clone, it would go to the same place).



No, Kakashi only acted as the only answer to Kamui anyone in this manga has. Including Itachi.



> There's no objective way to quantify them with respect to each other, but there's no visibly significant difference between Obito's speed and Itachi's. Ever.



Sure there is. Keeping up with Minato > 13-year-old Itachi with no speed feats of note.



> Thanks to Izanagi.



If we're given Itachi feats he doesn't have then I can just go ahead and give Obito Izanagi here as well.



> The Hachibi is pretty noteworthy.



Played it up so he could escape.



> So is Nagato.



Laughed it off just the same.



> Not that a Jutsu's on-panel track record is anything to judge it by (given that Jinton and Konan's Paper Ocean have never killed anyone).



When fodder casually deals with Jinton and Paper Ocean, let me know.



> Assuming he has acquired it from Kushina during childbirth. Although he lost it on the same night, so...this is kind of like giving Itachi Kotoamatsukami.
> 
> Of course, if we're doing that, then I'm totally game for this idea.



Please don't imply that Itachi can handle Obito and the Kyuubi at the same time. There is only so much wank I'm willing to stomach. I won't even begin to entertain this bullshit.


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## Rocky (Jul 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Also, the second databook referred to them as the clan's strongest unit.



Cool. What does that mean in terms of their speed compared to a relevant character.



> Err, these were elite fodder. "Fodder" is relative to the one fodderizing.



You and I both know what cannon fodder is.

Is that their only feat, their title? Honestly, if you would like to provide _something_ other than them being torn apart by a kid, maybe I'd reconsider their placement in the Manga.



> False; he's got a 4.5 in that area.



4.5 =/= Speedster. That belongs to guys like Gai, Ei, etc. Not Kiba.

And the Orochimaru Itachi fought isn't the one that has his stats calculated in the Databook.



> Yes it is, since evasion is apparently a viable method to avoid Genjutsu.



And Orochimaru didn't try to evade. Or blitz in. Or do anything except look at Itachi eyes.



> I love how surprised you are. Like you don't understand the significance of escaping a person's field of vision before they can turn their head.



8 year-old Sasuke. That's not a significant feat. That's a technique called the body flicker. _Kabuto_ did the same thing to Yamato, while Yamato still has him partially bound nonetheless.



			
				Strat said:
			
		

> But imo part I Itachi showed plenty to take down Obito, and Obito being cautious of Itachi, particularly Amaterasu and Itachi's intellect, indicates that he viewed Itachi as a highly perilous opponent as well.



In his debut, he showed Suiton, Reverse Genjutsu, Exploding Clones, and Tsukuyomi.


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## Bonly (Jul 27, 2013)

Itachi should be able to figure out about Obito going intang quickly(assuming he doesn't die by the first surprise attack) so it's a matter of would Itachi be able to land a killing blow on Obito at the right time.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jul 27, 2013)

Obito literally phases through all Itachi's attacks and stabs him. That's assuming Obito is acting as batshit as he was during his encounter with the mist.

If he's rational, he will stomp Itachi. At 14 Obito was able to kill Hiruzen's best ANBU guards, forced Minato to use Hiraishin in a battle of speed _and_ only lost because he didn't remain 'intangible' for a moment longer. The latter two were while he was _rushing_ the fight so he wouldn't eventually lose control over Kurama. 

With no such factors, Obito could take his time and toy with Itachi... Or just phase through attacks till Itachi's performance starts to suffer due to his unusually low chakra level.


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