# SM Hashirama vs Edo Itachi and Edo Nagato



## titantron91 (Apr 7, 2013)

Location: Valley of the End

Distance: 10 Meters

Knowledge: Hashi knows he's fighting Edo zombies, Itachi and Nagato knows they're fighting an SM user that will seal them to defeat them

Mindset: Itachi and Nagato are BL, Hashirama is IC

Conditions: Hashirama starts with SM and has four sealing tags, Edo Itachi starts with MS and Nagato regained his youth. Getting sealed renders Edo Itachi and Edo Nagato defeated.

Restrictions: Flowering World, Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Izanagi, Gedo Mazo, Six Pain Bodies


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## Sans (Apr 7, 2013)

Itachi said that combined, they could do virtually anything.

Being asked to defeat Hashirama, is why Itachi said "virtually" anything.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 7, 2013)

^forward slash agreed.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 7, 2013)

They can defeat practically any combatant (excluding Edo Madara and SO6P).


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## Sans (Apr 7, 2013)

And Hashirama.


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## Ersa (Apr 7, 2013)

SM Hashirama plasters them with Buddha or just plain overwhelms them with Mokuton spam. He should take this low difficulty at worst. Hashirama was dealing with a being (PS-Kyuubi) that could casually sink islands with TBB and whose slashes easily leveled several mountains. Nagato and Itachi are just plain outclassed.

Two high tiers are doing jackshit to a true top tier unfortunately.


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## joshhookway (Apr 7, 2013)

Buddha smashes Itachi and kill Nagato.


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## crisler (Apr 7, 2013)

What a lot of restrictions here...

I wonder what hashirama would do when itachi fires amaterasu, and it starts to burn hashirama...has anyone avoided it? raikage is the only one i can think of, who's avoided amaterasu from a direct hit 

Bee got caught, danzou got caught. gaara wasn't attacked with the intial flame, which is the most dangerous part of amaterasu, sasuke wasn't the intial victim of itachis' amaterasu....

then we have shinra tensei as well...how would that work against the buddha thing....

i don't think edo itachi and edo nagato can't defeat an individual, whose power isn't a combination of someone elses plus his own like edo madara...

i would go with the edo duos. hell, these two are probably included in the strongest 10 guys in narutoverse..it'd be a shame if they can't beat one man in their edo form


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## titantron91 (Apr 7, 2013)

Honestly, it makes me sick to the stomach that people say Hashirama beats this and that just because he's Hashirama. Jesus Christ. I'm okay if Hashirama beats them but could people please give effort to explain how the scenario would happen? Jesus.


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## Rocky (Apr 7, 2013)

It's rather self explanatory.


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## Magician (Apr 7, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It's rather self explanatory.



^This

What can they do to the Buddha?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 7, 2013)

Chibaku Tensei, I don't know how Hashirama would counter this.


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## Magician (Apr 7, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Chibaku Tensei, I don't know how Hashirama would counter this.



A spec of dust compared to the Buddha. Hashirama smacks it and destroys it.


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## titantron91 (Apr 7, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> A spec of dust compared to the Buddha. Hashirama smacks it and destroys it.



So, Chibaku Tensei doesn't gravitate the Buddha?

How about Yata Mirror and Chou Shinra Tensei? Amaterasu? Tsukiyomi? Totsuka? Are they non-factors? Remember, Hashirama knows nothing about


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## Magician (Apr 7, 2013)

titantron91 said:


> So, Chibaku Tensei doesn't gravitate the Buddha?



Not before he destroys it.


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## titantron91 (Apr 7, 2013)

BDProductions34 said:


> Not before he destroys it.



So he automatically knows that? Wow what a genius. I bet Hashirama already knows by that time too that Itachi's planning to do a genjutsu/blindspot feint on him too... and that Nagato will summon hordes of giant animals, especially the splitting dog.


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## Magician (Apr 7, 2013)

titantron91 said:


> So he automatically knows that? Wow what a genius. I bet Hashirama already knows by that time too that Itachi's planning to do a genjutsu/blindspot feint on him too... and that Nagato will summon hordes of giant animals, especially the splitting dog.



Itachi knew instantly when CT happened that they had to destroy the center first to stop the technique. It's not rocket science.

The giant animals aren't even as tall as 100% Kyuubi. There no where near the size of the buddha and don't have the DC to even put a dent in it. Nagato's summons are a non-factor here.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 7, 2013)

CT's gravitational force kicks in the moment it reaches its spot. And no, Hashirama won't be able to do much to it before then given someone whose eyes help him see like this couldn't help him stop it. 



BDProductions34 said:


> A spec of dust compared to the Buddha. Hashirama smacks it and destroys it.



If the Budda statue tries to smack it it will end up contributing to CT. Hashirama needs a jutsu much like Bijuu-Dama or FRS to stand a better chance at stopping it.


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## richard lewis (Apr 7, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> CT's gravitational force kicks in the moment it reaches its spot. And no, Hashirama won't be able to do much to it before then given someone whose eyes help him see like this couldn't help him stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Budda statue tries to smack it it will end up contributing to CT. Hashirama needs a jutsu much like Bijuu-Dama or FRS to stand a better chance at stopping it.



Lets not forget that kn8 naruto broke through CT with pure brute strength, hashirama's budda is considerably larger and stronger than the full size 9 tails so I see no reason for why is budda couldn't do the same.

I do see amaterasu as a threat though, hashi hasn't shown the speed to dodge it, although I guess he could use wood clones as decoys.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 7, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> Lets not forget that kn8 naruto broke through CT with pure brute strength, hashirama's budda is considerably larger and stronger than the full size 9 tails so I see no reason for why is budda couldn't do the same.
> 
> I do see amaterasu as a threat though, hashi hasn't shown the speed to dodge it, although I guess he could use wood clones as decoys.



God Realm had a simple solution, make it bigger. That's be the same deal here. 

Though it is worth noting _God Realm Pain_ cast CT. Going by Naruto, a CT from Nagato should be considerably stronger.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 8, 2013)

At this distance we can expect a BT into a GF. We can also expect a massive detonating ST at start- likely killing him. 

Hashirama can do nothing, he has not the knowledge nor the time to make a seal for a proper Mokuton defense from this distance.



> Itachi said that combined, they could do virtually anything.
> 
> Being asked to defeat Hashirama, is why Itachi said "virtually" anything.


The hype is disgusting.


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## Katana King (Apr 8, 2013)

Shouldn't Preta Path just absorb Mokuton?


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## Csdabest (Apr 8, 2013)

Rasant said:


> SM Hashirama plasters them with Buddha or just plain overwhelms them with Mokuton spam. He should take this low difficulty at worst. Hashirama was dealing with a being (PS-Kyuubi) that could casually sink islands with TBB and whose slashes easily leveled several mountains. Nagato and Itachi are just plain outclassed.
> 
> Two high tiers are doing jackshit to a true top tier unfortunately.



Rinnegan can absorb chakra on contact returning it to being lifeless. Madara absorb FRS and the chakra in Gaara sand and it instantly went limp. Most likely this will happen as well. And It gets hectic when Nagato starts summoning Rinne Summons


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## puma21 (Apr 8, 2013)

Wouldn't CT pull apart the statue like it does mountains or shinra tensei's blow off parts coming at them as  pre-exploded tbb's destroyed it bit by bit. Or they can not bother taking down the statue and Nagato can use Bansho Tenin to pull Hashirama down from it into Itachi's totsuka/amatarasu/whatever combo.


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## Sans (Apr 8, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> At this distance we can expect a BT into a GF. We can also expect a massive detonating ST at start- likely killing him.
> 
> Hashirama can do nothing, he has not the knowledge nor the time to make a seal for a proper Mokuton defense from this distance.



You've dodged me on this before. You seem to view Bansho Ten'in as a godlike jutsu, that stands above the rest of the setting as a colossus.

Okay, seriously. Do you actually think that if this match up happened in the manga, Kishimoto would make Hashirama die at match start to Bansho Ten'in?

*Edit:* I just read the rest of your post. You think that Hashirama is reduced to nothing. Do you have any care for how Kishi actually draws fights whatsoever?



DaVizWiz said:


> The hype is disgusting.



Take it up with the author.


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## αce (Apr 8, 2013)

ITT: People who think Hashirama loses to people who aren't the original Rikudou.


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## Sans (Apr 8, 2013)

What's wrong with applying BD logic to Hashirama fights, is that we've only seen maybe two or three feats from him. He hasn't had panel time to show us his entire fighting style. What he has shown, is that he can face Perfect Kyuubi Susano'o in base, and in Sennin Modo, he can operate on a scale that makes it look tiny.

Now then, in my opinion, what Kishi is trying to demonstrate is obvious. Hashirama stands above the rest of characters by leagues. If he hasn't technically demonstrated a counter to a particular tech, fine; but you're ignoring the massive cues to what you should think in regards to Hashirama.


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## Arles Celes (Apr 8, 2013)

αce said:


> ITT: People who think Hashirama loses to people who aren't the original Rikudou.



Madara left him quite hurt and exhausted though.

An improved Edo Madara backed up by BM Naruto, Rinnegan Obito, and Nagato utterly destroys Hashi. Hell, just Edo Madara and BM Naruto should handle it fairly easily.

There is no character in this manga(aside from the mentioned original Rikudou) who stand up against a combo of 2-3 most powerful characters aside from him.

Nothing trumps RS creating the moon which is much bigger than Hashi's buddha+ Madara 's PS+ Juubi put together in terms of size.

That said one-on-one Hashi is probably the strongest character who had a chance to show his abilities unless Madara has new rinnegan tricks up his sleeve or becomes a Juubi Jin.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 8, 2013)

> You've dodged me on this before. You seem to view Bansho Ten'in as a godlike jutsu, that stands above the rest of the setting as a colossus.


Indeed. Dude pulled KCM Naruto with ease, shat on KN6 Naruto with flying boulders, and pulled a mini-meteor to earth. The guy controls gravity like it's a third arm. KCM Naruto couldn't even resist. 



> Okay, seriously. Do you actually think that if this match up happened in the manga, Kishimoto would make Hashirama die at match start to Bansho Ten'in?


This isn't the manga, this is simulated battle between 3 zombies.

I have no doubt in my mind both combatants have a solid chance of soloing. When matched together, you simply get a quick-pull and GF obliteration of Hashirama. Itachi is one of the fastest ninjas in the manga and perhaps the trickiest bushin user in the manga, Hashirama has no knowledge on him. Nagato is a virtual god among this god. Matched together, this duo would slaughter Hashirama low difficulty.  



> *Edit:* I just read the rest of your post. You think that Hashirama is reduced to nothing. Do you have any care for how Kishi actually draws fights whatsoever?


You hype him as if he's an untouchable saint. 

He's a human who defeated Madara upon a simple trick. 

At a 10m distance without knowledge he now has the capacity to defeat perhaps the most Haxed bloodlusted zombie combo in the manga? A duo which Hashirama has 0 knowledge on?

Dude, I've heard enough. The wank is unbelievable- he's killed within 10 seconds of start battle.


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## ueharakk (Apr 8, 2013)

i don't think Chibaku tensei is defeating the buddah.

Not only is the mokuboddah much more physically powerful than 100% kurama let alone KN8 that broke out of CT, but the firepower that its arms yield are comparable to multiple mountain busters both by the dust the technique was kicking up and the fact that I think kishi wanted to equate the punches total power to the 10+ bijuudamas that were fired.

So no I don't think edo Itachi and edo nagato can compete with SM Hashirama.

I don't think that Nagato can absorb the jet gatling arms with preta path considering the speed at which the arms are moving and the fact he's never really absorbed something solid or that size before, usually he absorbs projectiles that stop their motion once they come in contact with his field.  Anyways the arms are made up of senjutsu so they will still turn him into stone if he absorbs enough of it.


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## Sans (Apr 8, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Indeed. Dude pulled KCM Naruto with ease, shat on KN6 Naruto with flying boulders, and pulled a mini-meteor to earth.
> 
> This isn't the manga, this is simulated battle between 3 zombies.
> 
> ...



We have a difference in opinion on what we should evaluate then. Although, Bansho Ten'in doesn't equal god mode instant kill in any high tier fight, in any evaluation.

I think we should look at how the fight would unfold within the Naruto universe. Because we're on a forum for discussing said universe. There's no point in discussing how you think the battle should go, if you completely disregard how it would happen in the manga.

Actually, I think your hyping of Bansho Ten'in in general is just ridiculous, not specifically related to Hashirama. Like I said, I care about how the fight would unfold in the manga we're discussing (funny that). So, quite simply, any ninja that Nagato is popularly compared against, will not be destroyed at match start. Not by Bansho Ten'in, not by Katon: Goukakyu and not by anything else.


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 8, 2013)

> We have a difference in opinion on what we should evaluate then. Although, Bansho Ten'in doesn't equal god mode instant kill in any high tier fight, in any evaluation.


Nagato nearly solo'd KCM Naruto with it upon initial battle. The dude pulled him away from Bee while launching down a fucking meteor.  

It's rarely used by Nagato, and should he have spammed it instead of letting a simple chakra arm provide seperation, he would have easily defeated the former.



> I think we should look at how the fight would unfold within the Naruto universe. Because we're on a forum for discussing said universe. There's no point in discussing how you think the battle should go, if you completely disregard how it would happen in the manga.


This isn't a manga man.

Itachi and Nagato are bloodlusted at a 10m distance. At what point does a knowledgeless Hashirama stand any fucking chance? 



> Actually, I think your hyping of Bansho Ten'in in general is just ridiculous, not specifically related to Hashirama. Like I said, I care about how the fight would unfold in the manga we're discussing (funny that). So, quite simply, any ninja that Nagato is popularly compared against, will not be destroyed at match start. Not by Bansho Ten'in, not by Katon: Goukakyu and not by anything else.


What the fuck are you talking about?

Bansho Ten'in is ranged control over gravity. It's a third arm which has yet to be resisted or countered by any party it's been used on. 

So quite simply, this is not the manga, Kishimoto's motives are thrown out the window, and the obvious logic of a bloodlusted psychopath in Nagato BTing Hashirama around like a rag doll slamming him to death on the ground while Itachi chars him to death with a massive high-speed exploding Great Fireball is how he will be destroyed.


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## Sans (Apr 8, 2013)

I concede to the obvious logic of Hashirama getting solo'd by Bansho Ten'in at match start.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 8, 2013)

Katana King said:


> Shouldn't Preta Path just absorb Mokuton?



No more than Preta can eat the Kyuubi.  Hashirama creates life, not just a chakra construct.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Apr 8, 2013)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> CT's gravitational force kicks in the moment it reaches its spot. And no, Hashirama won't be able to do much to it before then given someone whose eyes help him see like this couldn't help him stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Budda statue tries to smack it it will end up contributing to CT. Hashirama needs a jutsu much like Bijuu-Dama or FRS to stand a better chance at stopping it.



Dude.  His statue punched out volleys of 100% Kurama bijuudama's with Susano swords sticking out of them.


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## copydog123 (Apr 8, 2013)

I am usually one of the first to defend nagato's reputation and not without merit either. 

But at this stage, I am more convinced that hashirama indeed has the upper-hand with a semi-comfortable margin. Neither side is stomping the other as hashi's preposterous area of effect jutsu can be neutralized to some extent by rinnegan's own landscape altering jutsus.

Add itachi whose battle smarts combined with some very lethal jutsus, and nagato and itachi are truly a beast.


HOWEVER, having said that, kishi quite methodically did a total U-turn on hashi's powerlevel. He did drop hints for a while but there were still debates as hiruzen beat the initial edos. All of those are put to rest.

So now replace *Itachi* with *Madara*.  And *nagato* with *kyubi.*. By now it should be clear that EMS Madara then packed a lot more power than Itachi (smarts might be another issue but up for debate).
Nagato is obviously a lot more versatile than kyubi but power-wise, it's well debatable that kyubi can match him probably. 

*Yet hashi "defeated" the two (I say "defeated" since how Madara survived and got hashi's dna is the next chapter).  *

Meaning, hashi's raw powered jutsus most likely come out on top.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 8, 2013)

While chakra wise Itachi can now spam _Amaterasu_ & _Tsukuyomai_, _Mokuton Bunshin_ severly limit their effectiveness. While his _Sasuno'o_ lacks the physical size/power/durably to survive the PS sized _Mokuton arms_ that will be trying to flatten him. 

Itachi's best bet supporting Nagato, via protecting him from potential SM strikes via _Sasuno'o_ (so Nagato doesn't have to waist ST) & sniping with _Amaterasu_ from a distance 

Edo Nagato even with all his obscene hax is still fighting a VERY uphill battle. All his summons including Cerberus & Gedo Mazo are essentially foddered thanks to Hashi's love of spamming _Mokuton: Mokuryū no Jutsu_ while solely trying to camp in _Fujutsu Kuyin_ is too risky. His only real "safe" option is essentially to stay out of range Diedara style  via his bird summon. 

This being said.... due to Nagato being healthy & more importantly edo..... this match will degrade into repetitive CST & CT nuking. By virtue of Hashi's response to _Bijudama_ Hashi would respond with _Senpō: Mokuton: Shin Sūsenju_. At this point the match revolves around Edo Nagato chucking up multiple CT (as it doesn't have a cool down) vs. Hashi's _Chōjō Kebutsu_ at which point its up to Hashi finding an opening to seal the former

Hashi takes the match with extreme difficulty as it's virtually impossible to put Edo Nagato down without some variant of genjutsu or PIS/Gimping


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## Trojan (Apr 8, 2013)

BT from Nagato, then he rapes his soul out. @.@ 
or Susanoo sword? 

Perhaps Itachi use Amaterasu during the battle before Hashi use his Buddha? 

Hashi may win, but it won't be easy as people tried to make it looks like.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 8, 2013)

disregard my original post..... 

Just saw the match specifics.. The match is essentially rigged for Itachi & Nagato to win 

Either Nagato or Itachi could solo this match due to circumstances. Bloodlusted Nagato casually oneshots with a fully powered CST or lets Itachi have his fun via _Amaterasu_ or _Tsukuyomai_


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 8, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Dude.  His statue punched out volleys of 100% Kurama bijuudama's with Susano swords sticking out of them.



So? Bijuu Dama w/ Susanoo swords aren't the same as CT.


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## Chaotic Gangsta (Apr 8, 2013)

WOW@Those restrictions. You really want Hashirama to win don't you 

It'd be a tough fight but ultimately I see Hashirama as the victor seeing as he has so much virtuosity with wood style. Amatarasu and the gravitational forces could prove to be a challenge though.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 9, 2013)

Bringer of Darkness, sealing tag GG


Itachi is going to be easy to take down. Hashirama can eat chakra so Amaterasu is useless, he smashes the fuck out of Susanoo.


Nagato is going to cause problems because of BT, ST and preta path but I see Hashirama as overwhelming him quickly after his first use of ST when its cooling down.


but again BOD gg since both rely heavily, Itachi relies solely, on their dojutsu.


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## ImSerious (Apr 9, 2013)

Hashi steps on them.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 9, 2013)

Yes there is no joy left in this world.

Thought we would finally see Itachi get his ass handed to him in the Naruto Bee fight, Kishi fucked it up.

Then along come Kabuto, did fairly good but didn't put the absolute beat down on Itachi but still showed he was far above Itachi's level. 

Then ET ends, Madara frees himself, thinking that Itachi would free himself and fight Madara to get stomped but he bitches out and runs to the afterlife like a bitch.

Only thing Im waiting for is Minato to wreck Sasuke or Madara..... Or Obito... or hell anyone for that matter of fact. The strongest guy in this manga and weve only seen him fight one time and it was over in a flash.


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## IchLiebe (Apr 9, 2013)

Komnenos, they only joy I could get out of this manga right now is the three Uchihas getting bitch slapped. (edit: By either Tobirama(hope to god he does), Hiruzen or Minato. Its going to be amazing when they enter the battlefield, Madara will shit his self at the sight of an Edo Hashirama).

I actually used to like Itachi somewhat but 3 posts on this site and I am an rabid hater of Uchihas other than Madara cause I like his attitude and back story. If Itachi was conspirairing with the Uchiha's against the leaf and it was Sasuke that was protecting the village the manga would've been a whole lot better, but I think Kishi rushed Itachi and focused on his MS arsenal as a sneak peak to Sasuke's MS instead of delving into his base skill set.

Happiest moment in my entire life was when Itachi was cut in half by Kabuto.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 9, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Bringer of Darkness, sealing tag GG



With Nagato's sensing feats...... I seriously doubt that 



IchLiebe said:


> Itachi is going to be easy to take down. Hashirama can eat chakra so Amaterasu is useless, he smashes the fuck out of Susanoo.



The starting distance is 10m with Itachi & Nagato being bloodlusted...... 

Hashirama is literally being lit ablaze via _Amaterasu_ or mind raped into oblivion via _Tsukuyomai_, the second the match begins before any significant _Mokuton_ threat ever comes to play



IchLiebe said:


> Nagato is going to cause problems because of BT, ST and preta path but I see Hashirama as overwhelming him quickly after his first use of ST when its cooling down.



His first use will be CST as he's bloodlusted...... Hashirama is going into this fight with zero knowledge 

He's getting wiped off the map before he ever resorts to his big guns



IchLiebe said:


> but again BOD gg since both rely heavily, Itachi relies solely, on their dojutsu.



Hashi is completely fucked due to the OP, Nagato or Itachi could realistically solo under these *specific circumstances* regardless of the power gap 

Fighting Nagato & Itachi with absolutely zero knowledge at a 10m distance to boot is a complete and utter death sentence for 99.999999999% of the verse


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## Rocky (Apr 9, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Hashirama is literally being lit ablaze via _Amaterasu_ or mind raped into oblivion via _Tsukuyomai_, the second the match begins before any significant _Mokuton_ threat ever comes to play



Please. Upon seeing either Itachi's Mangekyou or Nagato's Rinnegan, Hashirama's going to get serious. Hashirama laughs at Itachi's Susano'o, which what Itachi is going to do first when Bloodlustet I assume. Even if, Shodai knows to avoid eye contact against the Sharingan, and Amaterasu will be blocked by any Mokuton technique Hashi activates, as they obscure LOS.

Nagato cannot do much better. A standing CST would do no harm...only send the 1st flying. Nothing his Tsunade-Like medical Ninjustu cannot heal. Chibaku Tensei forces Sage Mode....but Sage Mode is the end for The Dojutsu duo.

They can win if they got lucky with an attack that bypasses his regeneration, such as Amaterasu or a Soul rip, but landing those aren't exactly likely.


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## αce (Apr 9, 2013)

> Happiest moment in my entire life was when Itachi was cut in half by Kabuto.



So then the worst moment must have been when Itachi patted him on the head like a little child while Kabuto screamed out his name - then when Sasuke decided it wasn't even worth killing him and left him on the cave floor trapped in a genjutsu like an academy student?

Your life must suck.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 9, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Please. Upon seeing either Itachi's Mangekyou or Nagato's Rinnegan, Hashirama's going to get serious. Hashirama laughs at Itachi's Susano'o, which what Itachi is going to do first when Bloodlustet I assume. Even if, Shodai knows to avoid eye contact against the Sharingan, and Amaterasu will be blocked by any Mokuton technique Hashi activates, as they obscure LOS.



As soon as Hashirama sees Itachi's MS the fight would have long been over via _Tsukuyomai_, there is no second chances with that genjustu 

Seeing Itachi has full knowledge, he is mind rapping Hashirama rather than trying to futilely swing away with Totsuka which would only hurt him as Hashi would retaliate with spawn _Mokuton_. 



Rocky said:


> Nagato cannot do much better. A standing CST would do no harm...only send the 1st flying. Nothing his Tsunade-Like medical Ninjustu cannot heal. Chibaku Tensei forces Sage Mode....but Sage Mode is the end for The Dojutsu duo.



Are you seriously going to attempt to convince me that a healthy Nagato raising his arm and aiming a fully powered CST at Hashirama..... *from a 10m distance* is going to end in anything but his obliteration?  

Tsunade would have been killed had she not been several km from ground zero and having the attack not aimed at her. No one save Raikagenaut or a full Biju is physically tanking that attack from this distance

What good does Hashi's healing do CST kills him before he gets a chance to use it? His internals are going to be liquified from the force of that blast 



Rocky said:


> They can win if they got lucky with an attack that bypasses his regeneration, such as Amaterasu or a Soul rip, but landing those aren't exactly likely.



At 10m distance with no knowledge and bloodlusted..... the only correct answers in this match should be _Amaterasu_, _Tsukuyomai_ or CST..... GG


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## IchLiebe (Apr 9, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> With Nagato's sensing feats...... I seriously doubt that


 Itachi has no sensing feats and Nagato can't fight just by sensing.





> The starting distance is 10m with Itachi & Nagato being bloodlusted......
> 
> Hashirama is literally being lit ablaze via _Amaterasu_ or mind raped into oblivion via _Tsukuyomai_, the second the match begins before any significant _Mokuton_ threat ever comes to play


 First he has to activate sharingan then MS, prep either Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu aim and then cast. BOD and Mokuton take no handseals and Hashirama is able to make mokuton constructs in little to no time. Hashirama also has sensing abilities.





> His first use will be CST as he's bloodlusted...... Hashirama is going into this fight with zero knowledge


 Just cause he is bloodlusted doesn't mean that he will come out with CST. Hashirama should be able to defend via mokuton.





> He's getting wiped off the map before he ever resorts to his big guns
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fighting Hashirama with full knowledge, bloodlusted no matter what distance or restrictions is a death sentence for 100% of the verse.


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## Joakim3 (Apr 9, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Itachi has no sensing feats and Nagato can't fight just by sensing.



Nagato can pinpoint Hashirama's location via normal sensing on top of _Ujizokai no Justu_ tracking his movement/chakra signature via rain... or he save himself the trouble and one massive ST later the genjutsu ends do to Hashi being nuked

And this is assuming Itachi or Nagato can't break it seeing the only time it was used was on Hiruzen, not a high & top-tier uber hax dojustu duo



IchLiebe said:


> First he has to activate sharingan then MS, prep either Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu aim and then cast.



Every fight Itachi's started in had his Sharingan activated.... he keeps them up virtually 24/7. Tsukuyomai doesn't need to be aimed, all it takes is for Hashi to make the stupid mistake of looking at Itachi and GG

And seeing he looked at an EMS Madara in the eye, he's treating Itachi no different.... only this time with fatal consequences



IchLiebe said:


> BOD and Mokuton take no handseals and Hashirama is able to make mokuton constructs in little to no time. Hashirama also has sensing abilities.



Thats fine, but Nagato & Itachi literally have (bar S/T) the fastest activating ninjustu/genjutsu perspectively. Hashi has absolutely ZERO margin for error

What good is _Mokuton_ if he simply can't get it off in time do to the blood lusted nature of his opponents



IchLiebe said:


> Just cause he is bloodlusted doesn't mean that he will come out with CST. Hashirama should be able to defend via mokuton.



With full knowledge? Why would he waste his time.... Nagato's only option to win is to literally nuke with CST before Hashi gets serious. Anything other than that would result in Nagato & Itachi being sealed

No one has even reacted to ST, let alone put up a defense in time.... even worse, the start distance is 10m. Hashi is fucked in so many if/when Nagato decides to use CST from this distance



IchLiebe said:


> Fighting Hashirama with full knowledge, bloodlusted no matter what distance or restrictions is a death sentence for 100% of the verse.



Um no it's not..... when Hashi is essentially fighting IC and completely ignorant to his opponents abilities? Which I've already stated is the sole reason Itachi & Nagato aren't slaughtered in this match


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## Pein (Apr 10, 2013)

Nagato uses BT and pulls hashirama in to itachi's totsuka or amaterasu. The Itachi and Nagato combo is ridiculously overpowered, Hashirama won't be taking this against two blood lusted genius's.


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## Nikushimi (Apr 10, 2013)

Hashirama pulverizes them both with Shinsuusenju. If SM were restricted, this would be a decent fight.



IchLiebe said:


> Then along come Kabuto, did fairly good but didn't put the absolute beat down on Itachi but still showed he was far above Itachi's level.



Kabuto showed that he was, if anything, at _best_, on the same level as Itachi.



> Then ET ends, Madara frees himself, thinking that Itachi would free himself and fight Madara to get stomped but he bitches out and runs to the afterlife like a bitch.



The only reason Itachi didn't stick around and add another notch under his belt is because he didn't know about Madara escaping the previous Edo Tensei contract.

Given what happened to Nagato and then Kabuto, the trend does not bode well at all for Madara vs. Shinobi Alliance + Itachi.

And then Obito and the Juubi enter the picture, and it just gets even more retarded.

And Naruto's Kyuubi power-up? Do you have any idea what that would mean for Itachi?

Lee bum-rushed Madara and kicked him in half. Imagine the guy with the sealing sword getting the same power-up. It wouldn't even be fair.


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## eyeknockout (Apr 10, 2013)

base hashirama was fighting on par with a perfect susanoo armored kyuubi and EMS madara.

base hashirama would probably win this fight on his own. I think it's stupid though, kishi didn't have to make EMS madara and hashirama so greatly over the past top tiers, he could have just made them a bit stronger and we would still think they were monsters. now it's more like "ok they are by far the strongest ever so there's no fair matchups to put them against, that's boring"


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