# Kizaru vs Mihawk



## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 8, 2014)

Location: Open field 
Mindset: to kill
Knowledge: Full

How do it go? I say Kizaru extreme diff


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## RF (Sep 8, 2014)

Mihawk after a good fight.


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru after a good troll.


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## J★J♥ (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru after moving a finger.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru...


Canute87 said:


> Kizaru after a good troll.


I doubt it will match how Kizaru trolled the WSM.


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## trance (Sep 8, 2014)

Will this "Mihawk vs. an Admiral" thread go on for 15 pages like the last one?


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Yes.


**


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 8, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Will this "Mihawk vs. an Admiral" thread go on for 15 pages like the last one?



I hope so


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## zoro (Sep 8, 2014)

It could probably go either way


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## Amol (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru used sword against Rayleigh.
Mihawk is WSS.
He wins .
Logic is Undeniable


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## Dunno (Sep 8, 2014)

Mihawk high diff. Just read Amol's proof.


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## Ruse (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru trolls Zoro's EoS goal and wins with extreme diff.


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## convict (Sep 8, 2014)

Going with Mihawk, obviously with a lot of difficulty.


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## Ajin (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru had better feats and portrayal in Marineford, so i give it to him, high-extreme diff.


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## rext1 (Sep 8, 2014)

The Hawk takes this. Kizaru needs to one-up Shanks first before he comes for the titleshot!!


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## monkey d ace (Sep 8, 2014)

kizaru...... high diff.


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## Suit (Sep 8, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> kizaru...... high diff.



This man knows what he's talking about. Kizaru takes it high-diff. He's one of the greatest military powers held by the World Government and Marines, only matched by his fellow Admirals and Fleet Admiral.


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## Magician (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru kicks.


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## Harard (Sep 8, 2014)

Akainu is the only admiral I'd give the edge over Mihawk.


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 8, 2014)

Harard said:


> Akainu is the only admiral I'd give the edge over Mihawk.



So you how does Mihawk squeeze into the Space between Akainu and Aokiji?


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## Luke (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru wins with extremely high difficulty.


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## Kaiser (Sep 8, 2014)

Harard said:


> Akainu is the only admiral I'd give the edge over Mihawk.


This. Mihawk wins high difficulty. If it was Kiji, i'd say extreme


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Harard said:


> Akainu is the only admiral I'd give the edge over Mihawk.


Good for you.



PirateHunter Eddy said:


> So you how does Mihawk squeeze into the Space between Akainu and Aokiji?



You know........I'll leave this alone as it would be a very racist post


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## Suit (Sep 8, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> You know........I'll leave this alone as it would be a very racist post



Like how would you ever respond to that post with something racist? I don't see the implication here.


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## Gohara (Sep 8, 2014)

Mihawk wins with around high difficulty.  I don't see Zoro taking until the final Arc to surpass Admiral level.


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Roo said:


> Like how would you ever respond to that post with something racist? I don't see the implication here.



Look in your CP.


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Mihawk wins with around high difficulty.  I don't see Zoro taking until the final Arc to surpass Admiral level.



Admiral level is pretty broad.  Vista is admiral level.


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## Gohara (Sep 8, 2014)

I respectfully disagree.  I do think Admiral level spans more than some others do, but I don't think it's broad enough to encompass Vista as well.  Then again, we may just disagree on how powerful Vista is.

What I meant, though, is the top of Admiral level.


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## Suit (Sep 8, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Admiral level is pretty broad.  Vista is admiral level.



You can't be serious. 

Oh and  at your comment.


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## trance (Sep 8, 2014)

Roo said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> Oh and  at your comment.



He's Canute. Of course he's serious. :ignoramus


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## Canute87 (Sep 8, 2014)

Roo said:


> You can't be serious.



I'm just saying what majority thinks.



> Oh and  at your comment.



I told you didn't I?


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## Lycka (Sep 8, 2014)

Mihawk low end high difficulty.

Given the portrayal Kizaru received when he was on Zoro's back ready to kill him, it appears he's not a serious end game goal for the Strawhats, and let alone Zoro


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## Venom (Sep 8, 2014)

Could go either way though I am leaning more towards Mihawk


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## Intus Legere (Sep 8, 2014)

Hard to gauge Mihawk's full power right now. But going by impression and hype, I'd say he should be stronger by a bit. Maybe I'm pretty much the only one, but I actually picture Mihawk being as strong or stronger than Akainu. With the lack of feats currently, he could rank anywhere among the strongest fighters, from being a rival to Shanks to being marginally stronger than Vista.


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## Orca (Sep 8, 2014)

Mihawk extreme diff.


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## Lawliet (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru loses eventually after one hell of a fight. He loses his weed too.


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 8, 2014)

Kizaru takes it Mihawk doesn't have the feats for this to be a great fight. We know Kizaru is one of the strongest people out there and we have seen it. All we have with Mihawk is hype and feats that actually work against him.


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## Peppoko (Sep 9, 2014)

Mihawk extreme-diff

Not much to say here, it's just a wild guess. We don't know how strong Mihawk exactly is.


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 9, 2014)

Intus Legere said:


> Hard to gauge Mihawk's full power right now. But going by impression and hype, I'd say he should be stronger by a bit. Maybe I'm pretty much the only one, but I actually picture Mihawk being as strong or stronger than Akainu. With the lack of feats currently, he could rank anywhere among the strongest fighters, from being a rival to Shanks to being marginally stronger than Vista.



Mihawk impressed you more than Kizaru by doing what exactly?


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 9, 2014)

This again ... Mihawk extreme diffs . Mihawk is FA Akainu's equal.


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## Ruse (Sep 9, 2014)

Captain Altintop said:


> This again ... Mihawk extreme diffs . *Mihawk is FA Akainu's equal.*



How? When Sakazuki has better feats and potrayal.


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## Lawliet (Sep 9, 2014)

> one piece 
> feats

Akainu has better feats than the entire one piece verse. His feats are even comparable to WB's himsel.  Doesn't mean anything. Oda decided to show us akainu's strength earlier than some, that's all


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 9, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> > one piece
> > feats
> 
> Akainu has better feats than the entire one piece verse. His feats are even comparable to WB's himsel.  Doesn't mean anything. Oda decided to show us akainu's strength earlier than some, that's all



Even so his portrayal was better than Mihawks and it would be Akainu>=Aokiji>=Kizaru>Mihawk


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## The Bloody Nine (Sep 9, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Akainu has better feats than the entire one piece verse. His feats are even comparable to WB's himsel.l



And Mihawks feats on the other hand are extremely bad relatively speaking. Hell even Kizaru was trolling WB and chilling on his spear. 

Kizaru takes this high difficulty at most. Literally the only thing Mihawk has going for him is his title, everything  else is only high-tier level.


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> How? When Sakazuki has better feats and potrayal.



because he's zoro's final goal dontcha know.

Like that has shit to do with the Admirals.


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## Ruse (Sep 9, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> > one piece
> > feats
> 
> Akainu has better feats than the entire one piece verse. His feats are even comparable to WB's himsel.  Doesn't mean anything. Oda decided to show us akainu's strength earlier than some, that's all



I said potrayal as well  

Edit: I feel Kizaru should get the benefit of the doubt for now but that's just me


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

The coloured admirals IMO were just really special.


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## Dunno (Sep 9, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> And Mihawks feats on the other hand are extremely bad relatively speaking. Hell even Kizaru was trolling WB and chilling on his spear.
> 
> Kizaru takes this high difficulty at most. Literally the only thing Mihawk has going for him is his title, everything  else is only high-tier level.



Being the only one except Whitebeard who has been introduced with a "World's strongest" title, having the strongest physical strength feat in the whole manga, being Shanks' rival, being the only Shichibukai who Sengoku didn't insult at their meeting and being Zoro's ultimate goal. Also keep in mind that Mihawk has shown very little of what he can do due to never being pushed and not having any reason to go all out, while the admirals on the other hand pretty much showed us what they can do at Marineford, especially Akainu.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 9, 2014)

Mihawk gets the living shit trolled out of him. Kizaru extreme diff. He'd have an easier time against physical logias like Aokiji and Akainu cuz when they do a destructive attack he can slice it in half but light beams arent physical. (Inb4 light actually is a physical thinng and my brain is trolling me) High high/Extreme diff for Kizaru


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## Extravlad (Sep 9, 2014)

Mihawk wins for sure most likely extreme diff.
Sakazuki shte only character who have the edge against Mihawk atm, Dragon/Mihawk is a toss-up and Teach isn't in his prime yet.


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Being the only one except Whitebeard who has been introduced with a "World's strongest" title, having the strongest physical strength feat in the whole manga, being Shanks' rival, being the only Shichibukai who Sengoku didn't insult at their meeting and being Zoro's ultimate goal. Also keep in mind that Mihawk has shown very little of what he can do due to never being pushed and not having any reason to go all out, while the admirals on the other *hand pretty much showed us what they can do at Marineford, especially Akainu*.



Actually no.

Because I remember during punk hazard arc only about 1 -3 posters thought that the admirals could do that kind of damage (the change to  environment) and everyone else including myself were like no fucking way.

But we were very wrong.  We saw only but a glimpse of the admirals true powers in marineford.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 9, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Mihawk wins for sure most likely extreme diff.
> Sakazuki shte only character who have the edge against Mihawk atm, Dragon/Mihawk is a toss-up and Teach isn't in his prime yet.



Have you come across the name Shanks and Kaido yet in whatever manga you're reading? I doubt it


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Actually no.
> 
> Because I remember during punk hazard arc only about 1 -3 posters thought that the admirals could do that kind of damage (the change to  environment) and everyone else including myself were like no fucking way.
> 
> But we were very wrong.  We saw only but a glimpse of the admirals true powers in marineford.


Lol so Akainu didn't go all out? For Aokiji and Trollmaster Kizaru sure, but what more can Akainu show? He showed a top tier haki is needed to bypass his intangibility, Can tank attacks from enraged WSM, Fries the innerbody of slow people, nuff said.


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Lol so Akainu didn't go all out? For Aokiji and Trollmaster Kizaru sure, but what more can Akainu show? He showed a top tier haki is needed to bypass his intangibility, Can tank attacks from enraged WSM, Fries the innerbody of slow people, nuff said.



He defeated the man who also at marineford didn't go all out and took away his leg in the process.

There is more to Akainu than shown at marineford, just like Kiji and Kizaru as well.


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## King plasma (Sep 9, 2014)

Kizaru wins. Mihawk barely has any feats so it's only fair.


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## Extravlad (Sep 9, 2014)

> Have you come across the name Shanks and Kaido yet in whatever manga you're reading? I doubt it


Mihawk is stronger than both Shanks and Mihawk.
Come at me now.


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## Dunno (Sep 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Actually no.
> 
> Because I remember during punk hazard arc only about 1 -3 posters thought that the admirals could do that kind of damage (the change to  environment) and everyone else including myself were like no fucking way.
> 
> But we were very wrong.  We saw only but a glimpse of the admirals true powers in marineford.



Well, Aokiji could freeze a large part of the ocean in a flash, that he would be able to change the weather in ten days shouldn't be that surprising. And Akainu definitely showed us most of his power at Marineford when he fought Wb.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 9, 2014)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Lol so Akainu didn't go all out? For Aokiji and Trollmaster Kizaru sure, but what more can Akainu show? He showed a top tier haki is needed to bypass his intangibility, Can tank attacks from enraged WSM, Fries the innerbody of slow people, nuff said.



No they didn't. The Admirals were forced to hold back their full power at Marineford, Akainu even commented on it during his clash with Whitebeard, he was worried about damaging the area. When two Admirals did go all out, they changed the climate of an island as a side effect.


Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Have you come across the name Shanks and Kaido yet in whatever manga you're reading? I doubt it


Yeah, those two alongside Sakazuki are currently the top 3 strongest people alive imo.


Extravlad said:


> Mihawk is stronger than both Shanks and Mihawk.


Mihawk is stronger than Mihawk? An excellent observation.


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## Ajin (Sep 9, 2014)

Dunno said:
			
		

> Being the only one except Whitebeard who has been introduced with a "World's strongest" title, having the strongest physical strength feat in the whole manga, being Shanks' rival, being the only Shichibukai who Sengoku didn't insult at their meeting and being Zoro's ultimate goal. Also keep in mind that Mihawk has shown very little of what he can do due to never being pushed and not having any reason to go all out, while the admirals on the other hand pretty much showed us what they can do at Marineford, especially Akainu.



So many bullshit in one post. 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> Being the only one except Whitebeard who has been introduced with a "World's strongest"



We are not saying about swordsmanship contest, Whitebeard's title means that he is absolutely the strongest man (it's still debatable though), Mihawk's title means nothing when his opponent isn't even a swordsman. Kizaru may be strongest high guy, who the fuck care and why it should be important? 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> having the strongest physical strength feat in the whole manga



Not true, it's fucking bullshit. In One Piece physic is broken, flying slash have nothing to do with physical strength, unless you try to say that post-skip Luffy is weaker than pre-skip Kalifa. Strongest physical strength feat was showed by motherfucking Garp, Mihawk isn't even close to him. Even pre-skip Luffy show better feat when he threw a mountain.



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> being Shanks' rival



Over 12 years ago, yeah, good to know. Pre-Yami Blackbeard cut Shanks face, so what? That's means that pre-Yami Blackbeard was on Yonko level, or that was just long ago and their strength looked different? Mihawk is older than Shanks, and even if they was rivals over 12 years ago it isn't important for us now. 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> being the only Shichibukai who Sengoku didn't insult at their meeting



You purposely lie or just trolling. On Shichibukai meeting was Doflamingo, Kuma and Mihawk, Sengoku insult only Doflamingo because he provoked Marines. Sengoku didn't said nothing about Kuma, nor any other Shichibukai. 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> and being Zoro's ultimate goal.



Zoro's ultimate goal is become strongest swordsman in the world, it doesn't exactly means that he must defeat Mihawk. We don't know what will happen in One Piece, Shilliew or Fujitora can be Zoro's goal as well. 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> Also keep in mind that Mihawk has shown very little of what he can do due to never being pushed and not having any reason to go all out, while the admirals on the other hand pretty much showed us what they can do at Marineford, especially Akainu.



Any top-tier shown very little, Kizaru isn't any different.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 9, 2014)

> Mihawk vs Kizaru 
> Mihawk winning 
> OL

This actually makes sense .


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## Suit (Sep 9, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> > Mihawk vs Kizaru
> > Mihawk winning
> > OL
> 
> This actually makes sense .



Because you know, the strongest person on the side of the World Government, oppressor of pirates the world over, is a pirate himself! 

Get real. If this were true, the WG is one Mihawk betrayal away from getting utterly dismantled.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 9, 2014)

Zoro fanboys try to fluctuate Mihawk's strenght as much as they can to the point I've seen Zoro fanboys saying Mihawk might even be > Whitebeard .


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## Suit (Sep 9, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Zoro fanboys try to fluctuate Mihawk's strenght as much as they can to the point I've seen Zoro fanboys saying Mihawk might even be > Whitebeard .



But... But Whitebeard had hands. And that means he could carry a sword. And that makes him weaker than Mihawk _by default!_


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## Ruse (Sep 9, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Zoro fanboys try to fluctuate Mihawk's strenght as much as they can *to the point I've seen Zoro fanboys saying Mihawk might even be > Whitebeard* .



What? How long ago? I've never seen anyone say this.


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## Harard (Sep 9, 2014)

I really don't see anything wrong with people thinking Mihawk could possibly be stronger than Kizaru here. This is the same guy who used to clash with Shanks many a times.


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## Harard (Sep 9, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> What? How long ago? I've never seen anyone say this.



You've never seen it because it has never been said. It's true that Zoro fans have said some pretty absurd stuff, but I've noticed many here like to exaggerate stuff Zoro/Mihawk fanboys have said as well.


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## Dellinger (Sep 9, 2014)

Harard said:


> I really don't see anything wrong with people thinking Mihawk could possibly be stronger than Kizaru here. This is the same guy who used to clash with Shanks many a times.



Him clashing with Shanks when the later wasn't a Yonko means nothing.It also means nothing when it comes to Kizaru's strength.

I will only say this.There was a reason Oda portrayed the Admirals as the only ones capable of clashing with WB at the war.


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## Orca (Sep 9, 2014)

Mihawk extreme diff.

Not sure where people got this idea that Mihawk can't possibly win this and even thinking so makes you a Mihawk wanker. Anyone could enlighten me?


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## Kaiser (Sep 9, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Zoro fanboys try to fluctuate Mihawk's strenght as much as they can to the point I've seen Zoro fanboys saying Mihawk might even be > Whitebeard .


I think Mihawk is stronger than Kizaru and it has nothing to do with Zoro. Mihawk may even be weaker than Coby that end of serie Zoro could still mid diff Kizaru in my opinion. Don't think everyone think like you. Bringing up something as futile as this is only to try to create useless flame wars


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## TheWiggian (Sep 9, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Mihawk extreme diff.
> 
> Not sure where people got this idea that Mihawk can't possibly win this and even thinking so makes you a Mihawk wanker. Anyone could enlighten me?




Hate lives deep within alot of ppl.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 9, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> What? How long ago? I've never seen anyone say this.



2013 . Not too long ago .



Harard said:


> I really don't see anything wrong with people thinking Mihawk could possibly be stronger than Kizaru here. This is the same guy who used to clash with Shanks many a times.



Pre Fruits Teach put scars in Shanks . 

Pre Fruits Teach confirmed to be Yonko level . 

The thing is that we don't know how much time it was, the conditions and the battle itself .



Harard said:


> You've never seen it because it has never been said. It's true that Zoro fans have said some pretty absurd stuff, but I've noticed many here like to exaggerate stuff Zoro/Mihawk fanboys have said as well.



Damn, I'd like to have my old PC now, because it was in my "favorites", seriously, it has been . I'd look for it, but there are so fucking many Mihawk vs Shanks, and Mihawk's power levels threads, it makes difficult, not to say impossible, to find it . Also, I don't know if it's in this forum or if it is in another one . If you remind me this weekend, I'll go get my old PC and search, I'll bring for you .



Roo said:


> But... But Whitebeard had hands. And that means he could carry a sword. And that makes him weaker than Mihawk _by default!_



Best . Post . Ever .

Sincerely, I've seen people using this type of thinking to say Mihawk > Prime Rayleigh .

Edit: Just to remember and to stress it: 

" And it's not like I was careless or anything ." 

Dat Yonko level pre fruits Teach .


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Mihawk extreme diff.
> 
> Not sure where people got this idea that Mihawk can't possibly win this and even thinking so makes you a Mihawk wanker. Anyone could enlighten me?



A lot of it is fan based so nobody gonna give you any enlightenment friend.

It's just personal opinion

For me Mihawk just doesn't give me the impression of someone superior to the original coloured trio, those men who I believe to be a really special class by themselves. That's it really.


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## Orca (Sep 9, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> A lot of it is fan based so nobody gonna give you any enlightenment friend.
> 
> It's just personal opinion
> 
> For me Mihawk just doesn't give me the impression of someone superior to the original coloured trio, those men who I believe to be a really special class by themselves. That's it really.




The reason I was asking someone to enlighten me was because some people are acting as if Mihawk being stronger is impossible and thinking so is a sin of the highest degree. It's fine with me if someone thinks the admirals are stronger(I used to as well and still think Akainu is stronger). 

I can see why some people would think Kizaru would win this fight but a case could also be made for Mihawk being superior.


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 9, 2014)

Luffee said:


> Mihawk extreme diff.
> 
> Not sure where people got this idea that Mihawk can't possibly win this and even thinking so makes you a Mihawk wanker. Anyone could enlighten me?



Well its not impossible just seems unlikely and the arguments people use "Zoro's Eos opponent is not losing this, "Mihawks feats and portrayal are only second to WB" and "I would be shocked if the WSS does not win this" even when his opponents aren't even Swordsman, Now let me ask you this if you took away the titles of Both Kizaru and Mihawk and all we knew were that they where incredible fighters, based on the opponents they have faced with the ranks of these said opponents do you honestly believe Mihawk would still beat Kizaru?


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Sep 9, 2014)

^Good question. Still Kizaru for me.


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## Gohara (Sep 9, 2014)

Akainu and Aokiji changing the climate doesn't necessarily mean they didn't go all out at Marineford.  They changed the climate after a 10 day battle.  If the Marineford war lasted 10 days and they didn't change the climate, then I could maybe understand using that to say they didn't go all out.  Even then, though, they didn't fight each other on Marineford- so it could still be argued in that scenario that they may have went all out.

I personally believe they were going all out to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.

Having said that, it could be said that we didn't see all of their abilities/techniques, since we only saw so much on panel.  However- the same could be said for basically every other notable character there.


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## Dellinger (Sep 9, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Akainu and Aokiji changing the climate doesn't necessarily mean they didn't go all out at Marineford.  They changed the climate after a 10 day battle.  If the Marineford war lasted 10 days and they didn't change the climate, then I could maybe understand using that to say they didn't go all out.  Even then, though, they didn't fight each other on Marineford- so it could still be argued in that scenario that they may have went all out.
> 
> I personally believe they were going all out to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.
> 
> Having said that, it could be said that we didn't see all of their abilities/techniques, since we only saw so much on panel.  However- the same could be said for basically every other notable character there.



They did not go all out at Marineford.If they had gone all out,they would basically kill any marine soldier out there.PH is an island many times bigger than Marineford,and them doing what they did on it was only the aftermath of the fight.The fight itself is supposed to be legendary,it is the biggest event that happened during the TS,even above Teach becoming a Yonko.


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## Lycka (Sep 9, 2014)

Mihawk basic high difficulty.



EOS Zoro will be a good deal stronger than the C3.


As evidenced by Raleighs comments in his prime beating Kizaru and Kuma together is something he well could have handled.


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## Dellinger (Sep 9, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Mihawk basic high difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rayleigh never said that.


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## Suit (Sep 9, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Rayleigh never said that.



Pretty sure he did, actually. Not supporting Lycka's conclusion, but that was indeed something Rayleigh said.


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## Dellinger (Sep 9, 2014)

Roo said:


> Pretty sure he did, actually. Not supporting Lycka's conclusion, but that was indeed something Rayleigh said.


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## Dellinger (Sep 9, 2014)

It's not my fault that you live in US.


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## Gohara (Sep 9, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> They did not go all out at Marineford.If they had gone all out,they would basically kill any marine soldier out there.



I'm not sure I agree that them going all out automatically means they are going to kill everyone around them.



White Hawk said:


> PH is an island many times bigger than Marineford,and them doing what they did on it was only the aftermath of the fight.



It's true that it's bigger than Marineford, but it was still after 10 days.



White Hawk said:


> The fight itself is supposed to be legendary,it is the biggest event that happened during the TS,even above Teach becoming a Yonko.



I'm not sure if it's legendary, but this isn't far off from the truth.  It doesn't really disagree with anything I said, though.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Sep 9, 2014)

Gohara said:


> I'm not sure I agree that them going all out automatically means they are going to kill everyone around them.


The Admirals barely used their most devastating moves, they were heavily restrained so that they didn't kill their fellow Marines, or damage Marineford in the crossfire. Smoker even noted that they chose Punk Hazard for their duel because there was no one there and that they could go all out.


Gohara said:


> It's true that it's bigger than Marineford, but it was still after 10 days.


Thing is though, that was done as a side effect, Akainu and Aokiji were focused solely on fighting each other, they were not trying to destroy the island.


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## Lycka (Sep 9, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> It's not my fault that you live in US.



Thanks for supporting my statement.


Prime Ray would beat Kizaru and Kuma together.


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## Canute87 (Sep 9, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Thanks for supporting my statement.
> 
> 
> Prime Ray would beat Kizaru and Kuma together.



Not sure it meant exactly that.  He could mean that he could hurriedly one shot kuma and sentomaru before Kizaru could get to him again.


----------



## Suit (Sep 9, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Thanks for supporting my statement.
> 
> 
> Prime Ray would beat Kizaru and Kuma together.



 **


----------



## Dunno (Sep 9, 2014)

Ajin said:


> So much bullshit in one post.



Fixed the grammar for you. 



Ajin said:


> We are not saying about swordsmanship contest, Whitebeard's title means that he is absolutely the strongest man (it's still debatable though), Mihawk's title means nothing when his opponent isn't even a swordsman. Kizaru may be strongest high guy, who the fuck care and why it should be important?



We are not talking about a swordsmanship contest, that's right. That's why I mentioned Mihawk's title which is in no way tied to his skill in swordsmanship but to his "strength", which in One piece means his overall fighting capabilities. Just like WB was the best overall fighter out of all men, Mihawk is the best overall fighter out of all swordsmen. This is a fact and not debatable. If Shanks is a swordsman which is not certain but very likely, then that puts Mihawk above Shanks in "strength" a.k.a. overall fighting capabilities, which in turn puts him above Kizaru. So his title as the world's strongest swordsman is certainly relevant even when fighting people who are not swordsmen. If Kizaru was the strongest high guy and Kaido was a high guy, then Kizaru would be stronger than both Kaido and everyone Kaido was stronger than.
A>B and B>C means that A>C. Logic in its most basic form.



Ajin said:


> Not true, it's fucking bullshit. In One Piece physic is broken, flying slash have nothing to do with physical strength, unless you try to say that post-skip Luffy is weaker than pre-skip Kalifa. Strongest physical strength feat was showed by motherfucking Garp, Mihawk isn't even close to him. Even pre-skip Luffy show better feat when he threw a mountain.



Physical strength is used to exert force upon objects without using a DF or external power source. If a person causes an object to move by only using his own body, he has therefore used his physical strength to move it. It doesn't matter if lifted by direct contact or by another medium, in this case air. Pre-TS Luffy is definitely stronger than Kalifa, even if he cannot do air-slashes. The reason for that is that he could exert more force on an object directly than Kalifa could with or without an air slash. Garp's physical strength feat was indeed impressive, but it required less energy than Mihawk's so it puts him at second place.



Ajin said:


> Over 12 years ago, yeah, good to know. Pre-Yami Blackbeard cut Shanks face, so what? That's means that pre-Yami Blackbeard was on Yonko level, or that was just long ago and their strength looked different? Mihawk is older than Shanks, and even if they was rivals over 12 years ago it isn't important for us now.





They are still rivals. The reason Shanks asked Mihawk if he came to settle it is that their rivalry isn't settled yet. If this was not the case, why would Shanks ask if Mihawk had come to fight? The importance isn't the fact that they were equals back in the day, but that both of them still consider each other rivals and pretty much equals, and that they've been portrayed as equals. The difference with Blackbeard and Shanks is that they haven't been portrayed as equals in the current time frame, and that Blackbeard even commented that it was too early for him to fight Shanks at MF.



Ajin said:


> You purposely lie or just trolling. On Shichibukai meeting was Doflamingo, Kuma and Mihawk, Sengoku insult only Doflamingo because he provoked Marines. Sengoku didn't said nothing about Kuma, nor any other Shichibukai.



I'm neither trolling nor lying. Take a look at these pictures: 





"Welcome all of you..."

"Trash from the great seas"

Pretty clear that Sengoku addressed all of them. 



Mihawk arrived two pages later, and Sengoku said no such thing with him present.



Ajin said:


> Zoro's ultimate goal is become strongest swordsman in the world, it doesn't exactly means that he must defeat Mihawk. We don't know what will happen in One Piece, Shilliew or Fujitora can be Zoro's goal as well.



Mihawk being Zoro's ultimate goal has been strongly foreshadowed since Baratie. It's akin to Luffy reaching Raftel and finding One Piece. His goal is to become the PK and not to find One Piece, so he could theoretically become the PK some other way, but One Piece and Raftel has been foreshadowed strongly, just like Zoro vs Mihawk. Mihawk even stated himself that "No matter how many months or years pass by I shall stand here at the top of the world and wait for you."



Zoro's oath also mentioned Mihawk as the man he had to win against. 





Ajin said:


> Any top-tier shown very little, Kizaru isn't any different.



The difference is that Kizaru has been cut by Rayleigh and kicked by Marco, and thus he has been pushed beyond the point where he could do exactly whatever he wanted in the fight. He also had an obligation as a marine Admiral to fight seriously at MF. In these fights it would make sense for him to use his stronger moves. Mihawk on the other hand has never been scratched, kicked or anything like that, and hasn't had any reason to utilise his whole arsenal. Now I'm not saying that Kizaru has shown us everything he can do, but logically speaking, he should have shown more than Mihawk.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 10, 2014)

Issho D Tea said:


> The Admirals barely used their most devastating moves, they were heavily restrained so that they didn't kill their fellow Marines, or damage Marineford in the crossfire.



I would say their usage of their most devastating moves is a debatable point.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember it being stated that they were holding back to avoid damage to their fellow marines.



Issho D Tea said:


> Smoker even noted that they chose Punk Hazard for their duel because there was no one there and that they could go all out.



Even if so, we're comparing a fight that lasted 10 days to a war that lasted around a few hours.  Plus, they had the option of choosing in this case.



Issho D Tea said:


> Thing is though, that was done as a side effect, Akainu and Aokiji were focused solely on fighting each other, they were not trying to destroy the island.



True, but we're still comparing a 10 day fight to a war that lasted around a few hours, and as such we can also say that at the Marineford war they were fighting characters directly and not focusing on destroying the island.  Plus that just makes it difficult to compare 10 days to side effects, thus making it difficult to determine that they weren't going all out during the Marineford war based on the damage done to Punk Hazard.

Personally I find it more likely that they were going all out (or at least trying their best if they didn't use all of their abilities) to accomplish their goals in the war than I do that the side effects of a 10 day fight are indicative that they didn't go all out in around a few hours at Marineford.

Even supposing I was wrong about all this (which I could be), similar things could be asked as to whether or not others went all out any more than the Admirals did.


----------



## Harard (Sep 10, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> It's not my fault that you live in US.



If you know it doesn't work for the US peeps, why use it? lol


----------



## Dellinger (Sep 10, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Thanks for supporting my statement.
> 
> 
> Prime Ray would beat Kizaru and Kuma together.



You're an even bigger idiot than I thought.


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Him clashing with Shanks when the later wasn't a Yonko means nothing.It also means nothing when it comes to Kizaru's strength.
> 
> I will only say this.There was a reason Oda portrayed the Admirals as the only ones capable of clashing with WB at the war.



Yeah, Mihawk is clearly like Buggy who was Shanks equal in a bygone useless time. 

It's clearly portrayed that Mihawk and Shanks could still have an actual fight today. Or Shanks entire crew got serious for absolutely no reason when Mihawk showed up. They actually consider him a threat despite the fact that he's friends with Shanks.

The duels between Mihawk and Shanks were considered legendary. 





PirateHunter Eddy said:


> Well its not impossible just seems unlikely and the arguments people use "Zoro's Eos opponent is not losing this, "Mihawks feats and portrayal are only second to WB" and "I would be shocked if the WSS does not win this" even when his opponents aren't even Swordsman, Now let me ask you this if you took away the titles of Both Kizaru and Mihawk and all we knew were that they where incredible fighters, based on the opponents they have faced with the ranks of these said opponents do you honestly believe Mihawk would still beat Kizaru?



When you have a fighter who hasn't fought seriously what else are you supposed to look at? 

If you think Kizaru is superior to Shanks then sure you have an argument that Kizaru must win. If you don't then you kind of have to base Mihawk's strength based on his portrayal. You're basically penalizing Mihawk for showing up early in the manga and not fighting anyone on panel.


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 10, 2014)

Both of them are top tier in the verse. IMO it can go anyway. But whoever wins it will be nothing less than extreme difficulty.



Lycka said:


> Thanks for supporting my statement.
> 
> Prime Ray would beat Kizaru and Kuma together.



Are you an idiot? Sorry for asking. You are one.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 10, 2014)

Dracule Mihawk said:


> Shanks *entire crew* got serious for absolutely no reason when Mihawk showed up. They actually consider him a threat despite the fact that he's friends with Shanks.



all the fodders were reacting that way .The core members were just chilling there.


----------



## Dunno (Sep 10, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> all the fodders were reacting that way .The core members were just chilling there.



Well, in that panel even Shanks got serious. Noone's saying they got scared or anything, just that things got tense there for a bit. The fodder got scared, the officers including Shanks got serious, which indicates that they consider Mihawk a threat.


----------



## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 10, 2014)

Dracule Mihawk said:


> Yeah, Mihawk is clearly like Buggy who was Shanks equal in a bygone useless time.
> 
> It's clearly portrayed that Mihawk and Shanks could still have an actual fight today. Or Shanks entire crew got serious for absolutely no reason when Mihawk showed up. They actually consider him a threat despite the fact that he's friends with Shanks.
> 
> The duels between Mihawk and Shanks were considered legendary.



Ofcourse he could still challenge Shanks, Mihawk he is the WSS but that does not mean his stronger than him nd just because you a threat does not mean jack.



> When you have a fighter who hasn't fought seriously what else are you supposed to look at?
> 
> If you think Kizaru is superior to Shanks then sure you have an argument that Kizaru must win. If you don't then you kind of have to base Mihawk's strength based on his portrayal. You're basically penalizing Mihawk for showing up early in the manga and not fighting anyone on panel.



Well I don't Think Kizaru is stronger than Shanks but neither do I think Mihawk can beat shanks or is equal to him even with out feats Kizaru's portrayal has been alot better than Mihawks Greatest Military power>WSS in my books, even if Mihawk is stronger how do people prove it? Lol Eos Zoro's opponents is confirmed stronger than everyone? Some people even argue That PK=WSS.


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

Yeah, of course I'm not trying to say Mihawk can challenge Shanks entire crew but it was a very similar situation to when Shanks went to see Whitebeard. The fodder obviously had no chance and the real crew was serious. 

I find it really hard to believe that Shanks and Mihawk aren't practically equals based on their representation in the manga.


PK = WSS is dumb because Mihawk is pretty clearly inferior to Whitebeard. 

The three admirals combined are called the World's Greatest Military Power but would you really pick the 3 in a fight against Whitebeard and his crew? I don't know how far you extend it. 

Mihawk's portrayal is more of a one on one fighter with no real ambitions for the future so he's pretty irrelevant in terms of the balance of power IMO. 

I take the above panels as Mihawk = Shanks. I don't see how you get Mihawk < Shanks from there.


----------



## monkey d ace (Sep 10, 2014)

PirateHunter Eddy said:


> Well its not impossible just seems unlikely and the arguments people use "Zoro's Eos opponent is not losing this, "Mihawks feats and portrayal are only second to WB" and "I would be shocked if the WSS does not win this" even when his opponents aren't even Swordsman, Now let me ask you this if you took away the titles of Both Kizaru and Mihawk and all we knew were that they where incredible fighters, based on the opponents they have faced with the ranks of these said opponents do you honestly believe Mihawk would still beat Kizaru?


this so much. it's like putting akainu at PK level simply because u believe he'll be luffy's EOS opponent. when u never know if it will happen or how it'll happen(could get a powerup).


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> this so much. it's like putting akainu at PK level simply because u believe he'll be luffy's EOS opponent. when u never know if it will happen or how it'll happen(could get a powerup).



Not really. Mihawk's title is definitive. There was a small parallel to Rayleigh made (first mate who perhaps uses swords). Zoro's ultimate goal is to beat Mihawk and there have been repeated references that no one else is going to beat Mihawk before Zoro. 

Obviously, this could change but it seems unlikely. It's possible that some random guy shows up and beats Mihawk and Zoro beats the random guy to become the world's strongest. But honestly, I don't see that happening.


----------



## monkey d ace (Sep 10, 2014)

Dracule Mihawk said:


> Not really. Mihawk's title is definitive. There was a small parallel to Rayleigh made (first mate who perhaps uses swords). Zoro's ultimate goal is to beat Mihawk and there have been repeated references that no one else is going to beat Mihawk before Zoro.
> 
> Obviously, this could change but it seems unlikely. It's possible that some random guy shows up and beats Mihawk and Zoro beats the random guy to become the world's strongest. But honestly, I don't see that happening.


EOS coby/smoker > EOS zoro, since both had some parallels with garp. and garp>rayleigh. zoro's ultimate goal is the title, and if mihawk loses it to someone, then he isn't zoro's goal anymore!
shiryu is not a random guy, i can assure u of that. first-mate with swords also applies to him BTW. 
there's also no guarantee that mihawk won't get stronger by EOS, so even if he is zoro's opponent, that doesn't put current mihawk over kizaru in this case.


----------



## Shinthia (Sep 10, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Well, in that panel even Shanks got serious. Noone's saying they got scared or anything, just that things got tense there for a bit. The fodder got scared, the officers including Shanks got serious, which indicates that they consider Mihawk a threat.



no, Yasopp & Ben were just looking at him. if they consider Mihawk as a threat than Yasopp & Ben would not be in that casual pose.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Sep 10, 2014)

PirateHunter Eddy said:


> Ofcourse he could still challenge Shanks, Mihawk he is the WSS but that does not mean his stronger than him nd just because you a threat does not mean jack.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I don't Think Kizaru is stronger than Shanks but neither do I think Mihawk can beat shanks or is equal to him even with out feats Kizaru's portrayal has been alot better than Mihawks Greatest Military power>WSS in my books, even if Mihawk is stronger how do people prove it? Lol Eos Zoro's opponents is confirmed stronger than everyone? Some people even argue That PK=WSS.



Dude, you know your closet Sanji fan shit is out now huh? I hope you stop pretending you like Zoro. 

And whoever thinks it's wanking to say Mihawk can take this is just in denial. I think he's at that level...and seeing as there's a high chance Kizaru will end up as Sanji's opponent I will say that a guy who represents Zoro's ultimate goal is even a little bit stronger than him.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Dude, you know your closet Sanji fan shit is out now huh? I hope you stop pretending you like Zoro.
> 
> And whoever thinks it's wanking to say Mihawk can take this is just in denial. I think he's at that level...and seeing as there's a high chance *Kizaru will end up as Sanji's opponent *I will say that a guy who represents Zoro's ultimate goal is even a little bit stronger than him.



And if he doesn't?


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> And if he doesn't?



Than I still see nothing wrong with Mihawk being on par or stronger than the weakest of the original Admirals. 

At this point  it's all guesswork either way. All comes down to who people want to be stronger. People dismissing the possibility of Mihawk being stronger are just plain dumb though.

It's stupid using Mihawk in the battledome. We know where Kizaru stands while Mihawk can end up anywhere from slightly above Vista to even stronger than Shanks level.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Than I still see nothing wrong with Mihawk being on par or stronger than the weakest of the original Admirals.
> 
> At this point  it's all guesswork either way. All comes down to who people want to be stronger. People dismissing the possibility of Mihawk being stronger are just plain dumb though.
> 
> It's stupid using Mihawk in the battledome. We know where Kizaru stands while Mihawk can end up anywhere from slightly above Vista to even stronger than Shanks level.



I can't see Mihawk being stronger than Yonkou.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> I can't see Mihawk being stronger than Yonkou.



You don't have to. The possibility is just there, so if Oda made it happen you couldn't call bullshit.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> You don't have to. The possibility is just there, so if Oda made it happen you couldn't call bullshit.



I don't see the possibility as well to be honest.

It wouldn't make sense from how Oda has written so far. 

 But then again Oda has been known to screw up like what he did with COC.


----------



## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> I don't see the possibility as well to be honest.
> 
> It wouldn't make sense from how Oda has written so far.
> 
> But then again Oda has been known to screw up like what he did with COC.



It doesnt mean he screwed up just because  u dont like it, r u god who can decide whats wrong and whats right?


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> It doesnt mean he screwed up just because  u dont like it, r u god who can decide whats wrong and whats right?



It's not a matter of me not liking it.  It just wouldn't make sense to me.

Oda already designed his manga to work a particular way so yeah it's going to be kinda mind boggling that he would violate his own rules.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Sep 10, 2014)

WTF Oda set up Mihawk and Shanks as rivals. Left it ambigous as to how it all went and you say you can't see the possibility? How about you just don't want to see it?

Even if it's slim, it's still there.

Canute...bro...you're better than that, and you know it


----------



## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> It's not a matter of me not liking it.  It just wouldn't make sense to me.
> 
> Oda already designed his manga to work a particular way so yeah it's going to be kinda mind boggling that he would violate his own rules.



There always been anomalies.


----------



## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> WTF Oda set up Mihawk and Shanks as rivals. Left it ambigous as to how it all went and you say you can't see the possibility? How about you just don't want to see it?
> 
> Even if it's slim, it's still there.



The past is the past.

Sadly Oda will never let those two fight ever again so we'll never really know will we 

But you're right though as it isn't impossible.



TheWiggian said:


> There always been anomalies.



Do you know of one such big one?


----------



## Rolands (Sep 10, 2014)

This seems rather simple to me. Kizaru is an Admiral with a fruit that greatly enhances his speed, so presumably he's faster than Mihawk. Furthermore, the ranged attacks Kizaru has displayed are seemingly far more damaging and far more difficult to avoid than Mihawk's flying slash. So as long as Kizaru keeps his wits about him and stays at a distance while using long range attacks, I think he'd win.

Is my logic flawed?


----------



## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Dude, you know your closet Sanji fan shit is out now huh? I hope you stop pretending you like Zoro.
> 
> And whoever thinks it's wanking to say Mihawk can take this is just in denial. I think he's at that level...and seeing as there's a high chance Kizaru will end up as Sanji's opponent I will say that a guy who represents Zoro's ultimate goal is even a little bit stronger than him.



Wah I don't even know what Sanji has to do with any of this, And did I say Mihawk can't take this? I said its unlikey IMO not fact like everyone else it trying to claim that Mihawk>Kizaru. When I Debate I try my best to throw fannism out the window hence why I never give Zoro the benefit of the doubt  just cause am a fan, of course am biased(Not with no reason) but instead of tryna prove me wrong you'd much rather resort to calling me a closet Sanji fan just because my opinion hurts you? Where exactly have i given Sanji more praise than Zoro? When did I state that Sanji>Zoro? Which Thread did I ever think Sanji would win a fight apart from people his clearly stronger than? I keeping saying I don't like him but apparently English is a very hard language to interpret what I do hate is people using reasoning like "Lol Zoro is going to be the WSS and Sanji wil only find all blue therefore Zoro>>>>>>>Sanji" to widen the gaps between them.


----------



## Grumpy Zoro (Sep 10, 2014)

PirateHunter Eddy said:


> Wah I don't even know what Sanji has to do with any of this, And did I say Mihawk can't take this? I said its unlikey IMO not fact like everyone else it trying to claim that Mihawk>Kizaru. When I Debate I try my best to throw fannism out the window hence why I never give Zoro the benefit of the doubt  just cause am a fan, of course am biased(Not with no reason) but instead of tryna prove me wrong you'd much rather resort to calling me a closet Sanji fan just because my opinion hurts you? Where exactly have i given Sanji more praise than Zoro? When did I state that Sanji>Zoro? Which Thread did I ever think Sanji would win a fight apart from people his clearly stronger than? I keeping saying I don't like him but apparently English is a very hard language to interpret what I do hate is people using reasoning like "Lol Zoro is going to be the WSS and Sanji wil only find all blue therefore Zoro>>>>>>>Sanji" to widen the gaps between them.



Just one look at your post history and I think it becomes pretty clear what you're really about. But whatever, do your thing I guess.


----------



## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 10, 2014)

Grumpy Zoro said:


> Just one look at your post history and I think it becomes pretty clear what you're really about. But whatever, do your thing I guess.



And that is what exactly?


----------



## DavyChan (Sep 10, 2014)

Kizaru beats Mihawk mid diff from the feats shown at marineford.

As for the Mihawk/zoro hypers.. Um yeah let it go on this one.


----------



## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Do you know of one such big one?



Simple: Ace's death, first all thought he would survive when he got freed, even when he attacked Akainu i bet alot thought someone comes and saves him ecetera and then all of a sudden he got fisted.


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> Kizaru beats Mihawk mid diff from the feats shown at marineford.
> 
> As for the Mihawk/zoro hypers.. Um yeah let it go on this one.



How does this have anything to do with Zoro? I think pretty much everyone assumes Zoro will be able to beat Kizaru at the end of the manga unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Ajin (Sep 10, 2014)

Dunno said:
			
		

> We are not talking about a swordsmanship contest, that's right. That's why I mentioned Mihawk's title which is in no way tied to his skill in swordsmanship but to his "strength", which in One piece means his overall fighting capabilities. Just like WB was the best overall fighter out of all men, Mihawk is the best overall fighter out of all swordsmen. This is a fact and not debatable. If Shanks is a swordsman which is not certain but very likely, then that puts Mihawk above Shanks in "strength" a.k.a. overall fighting capabilities, which in turn puts him above Kizaru. So his title as the world's strongest swordsman is certainly relevant even when fighting people who are not swordsmen. If Kizaru was the strongest high guy and Kaido was a high guy, then Kizaru would be stronger than both Kaido and everyone Kaido was stronger than.
> A>B and B>C means that A>C. Logic in its most basic form.



You can't bring Shanks here to support your statement when we don't know about his strength or is Mihawk really stronger than him (i think that he isn't). I can say that Mihawk is pirate and Garp said that Yonko are strongest pirates alive, which puts Shanks above Mihawk. It's pretty official, right? Kizaru is an admiral and they are greatest military force in World Government, guess what? Mihawk also belong to WG. Do we take this seriously or just we forget about titles and focus on feats and hype?

Kizaru is on the same level as Mihawk and Shanks and he isn't a swordsman, you need something more than WSS title to prove superiority over him.



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> Physical strength is used to exert force upon objects without using a DF or external power source. If a person causes an object to move by only using his own body, he has therefore used his physical strength to move it. It doesn't matter if lifted by direct contact or by another medium, in this case air. Pre-TS Luffy is definitely stronger than Kalifa, even if he cannot do air-slashes. The reason for that is that he could exert more force on an object directly than Kalifa could with or without an air slash. Garp's physical strength feat was indeed impressive, but it required less energy than Mihawk's so it puts him at second place.



Like i said, physic is broken, stop with your bullshit. Mihawk doesn't have strongest physical strength feat, period. Oda never portrayed flaying slash as evidence of physical strength, not even once. On the other hand, when you need throw something big you need to be really physically powerful. That's why Zoro have big problems with throwing building, but his first flaying slash was done casually. Any top-tier brawler is physically stronger than top-tier swordsman.



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> I'm neither trolling nor lying. Take a look at these pictures:



Well, i didn't consider that shitty translation, my bad. It's hard to take it seriously when you see that Tanjiahdo Lofulamingo or Bisoromi Bear. I have two better translation in my native language and believe me, Sengoku insult only Doflamingo, because of his behavior.  



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> Mihawk being Zoro's ultimate goal has been strongly foreshadowed since Baratie. It's akin to Luffy reaching Raftel and finding One Piece. His goal is to become the PK and not to find One Piece, so he could theoretically become the PK some other way, but One Piece and Raftel has been foreshadowed strongly, just like Zoro vs Mihawk.



That was on the beginning of manga, you seriously think that Oda will do everything what he planned over 15 years ago? I am sure, that nor Shilliew, nor Fujitora was in his plan, but now they are, One Piece is changing, Oda have new ideas and more capabilities. Fujitora want the end of Shichibukai, which collides with Mihawk. Shilliew is part of final villain crew, his fight against Zoro is inevitable. Mihawk now is former teacher for Zoro, their fight wouldn't have enough emotions as it should. And it isn't any similar to Raftel case. 



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> Mihawk even stated himself that "No matter how many months or years pass by I shall stand here at the top of the world and wait for you."



That's why Zoro's fight for WSS title would be much better if his opponent was different. It would have much more tragedy and emotions, for the same reason Blackbeard sooner or later will kill Shanks, and Akainu killed Ace (who was somehow Luffy's rival).



			
				Dunno said:
			
		

> The difference is that Kizaru has been cut by Rayleigh and kicked by Marco, and thus he has been pushed beyond the point where he could do exactly whatever he wanted in the fight. He also had an obligation as a marine Admiral to fight seriously at MF. In these fights it would make sense for him to use his stronger moves. Mihawk on the other hand has never been scratched, kicked or anything like that, and hasn't had any reason to utilise his whole arsenal. Now I'm not saying that Kizaru has shown us everything he can do, but logically speaking, he should have shown more than Mihawk.



Mihawk escaped when Jozu came in his way, asked to stop fight with Vista and gone when Shanks arrived in Marineford. It's not hard to been unscratched if you running from danger. Kizaru was fighting with Rayleigh (he stalls him with non primary fighting style), Marco (he beat him), Whitebeard (he hurt him many times, without taking a hit even once) and started to attack Law's ship even despite Benn Beckman's threats. Kizaru did not show more than Mihawk, all he used was one technique and many no-named attack, but still he have much better feats than Mihawk.


----------



## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

Mihawk was running from danger? What the fuck?


----------



## Ajin (Sep 10, 2014)

He wanted to check gap between him and Whitebeard, but never attacked him directly after Jozu stopped his slash. He attacked Luffy, but when Vista came he asked for a break. He never tried to attack Jozu and avenge earlier failure. When Shanks arrived, Mihawk left Marineford. About what risk are we talking about? 

At the beginning of manga Mihawk looked as guy who do anything to kill the boredom, but when he has perfect opportunity he didn't take any risk and escaped when was in danger (Vista wanted to fight with him, Jozu provoked him, his old rival threatened him).


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## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 10, 2014)

Mihawk pretty obviously has no allegiance to the World Government beyond convenience. I don't see how leaving when his friend Shanks showed up shows him as weak. Mihawk did seem to take the Vista fight seriously but too much was going on for a clear conclusion. He seemed to be at the war more to fulfill his curiosity more  than anything else. 

Whitebeard was all the way on the other side for most of the time. 

I think by far the best argument you have is -

Marco sent just Vista to slow down Mihawk.
Marco and Vista had to go together to slow down Akainu.
If Kizaru is on a similar level to Akainu he has a better showing there. 

I just think it's very hard to use direct feats because it wasn't anything close to a life defining fight for Mihawk. More of a "let's see what happens"


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## Rolands (Sep 10, 2014)

Honestly, the only reason Mihawk is considered to be so strong is because we're flat out told that he's the world's strongest swordsman. His shown feats of strength, while impressive, aren't nearly enough to make him the strongest on their own.


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## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Simple: Ace's death, first all thought he would survive when he got freed, even when he attacked Akainu i bet alot thought someone comes and saves him ecetera and then all of a sudden he got fisted.



Yeah we did but him dying couldn't have come at that much of a surprise when we had a general understanding of Ace's character.

Plus Oda did actually foreshadow his death in one of the colour spreads.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> Yeah we did but him dying couldn't have come at that much of a surprise when we had a general understanding of Ace's character.
> 
> Plus Oda did actually foreshadow his death in one of the colour spreads.



Just like Oda foreshadowed Shanks being a swordsman and Mihawk being the strongest amongst them all?

Or some ppl saying Shiliew taking away Mihawks title/killing him along with BB killing Shanks???


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## Patrick (Sep 10, 2014)

Match-ups like this are hard to call. All we know is that they are both among the strongest in the world, but I'll give it a try.

I think Kizaru is weaker than Akainu and Aokiji due to him being less relevant to the story and having weaker convictions, two things that usually change a characters portrayed strength in a Shounen. I've been actively saying Mihawk=Shanks until proven otherwise in every discussion about these two and since Shanks was portrayed to be on the same level as Akainu, I'd say Mihawk is around Akainu's level as well. 

So it comes down to Mihawk=Akainu and Akainu>=Kizaru, so Mihawk>=Kizaru is also pretty likely. 

Mihawk Extreme Difficulty.


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## Canute87 (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> Just like Oda foreshadowed Shanks being a swordsman and Mihawk being the strongest amongst them all?
> 
> Or some ppl saying Shiliew taking away Mihawks title/killing him along with BB killing Shanks???



I don't understand.

The shiryuu and mihawk thing is purely fan speculation.


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## PirateHunter Eddy (Sep 10, 2014)

Patrick said:


> Match-ups like this are hard to call. All we know is that they are both among the strongest in the world, but I'll give it a try.
> 
> I think Kizaru is weaker than Akainu and Aokiji due to him being less relevant to the story and having weaker convictions, two things that usually change a characters portrayed strength in a Shounen. I've been actively saying Mihawk=Shanks until proven otherwise in every discussion about these two and since Shanks was portrayed to be on the same level as Akainu, I'd say Mihawk is around Akainu's level as well.
> 
> ...



I can actually agree with this never thought of it that way


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## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> I don't understand.
> 
> The shiryuu and mihawk thing is purely fan speculation.



Yea i also dont understand how u cant see the possibility that Mihawk could be stronger as a yonkou.

But its ok i dont want to start a long discussion.


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## DavyChan (Sep 10, 2014)

Dracule Mihawk said:


> How does this have anything to do with Zoro? I think pretty much everyone assumes Zoro will be able to beat Kizaru at the end of the manga unless I'm missing something.



Meaning people who think since current Zoro is strong that Mihawk must be like 10 stronger. yes mihawk was shown to more than likely be the strongest warlord. But not to the point where he can beat a fcking admiral. You're pulling tht logic from ur fanboy asses.

P.S. I am actually one of the people that assume the SH's will be stronger than average people assume.

EOS zoro should be able to beat Akainu.
I think EOS Luffy should be able to beat Kizaru & Kuzan ( both are a decent amount weaker than akainu).


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## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> Meaning people who think since current Zoro is strong that Mihawk must be like 10 stronger. yes mihawk was shown to more than likely be the strongest warlord. But not to the point where he can beat a fcking admiral. You're pulling tht logic from ur fanboy asses.
> 
> P.S. I am actually one of the people that assume the SH's will be stronger than average people assume.
> 
> ...



It makes no sense that Zoro will be able to beat Akainu by EoS while Mihawk being weaker than any admiral, thought Mihawk is an EoS opponent of Zoro.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> It makes no sense that Zoro will be able to beat Akainu by EoS while Mihawk being weaker than any admiral, thought Mihawk is an EoS opponent of Zoro.


WB's statement in MF suggests that luffy will still fight someone after achieving his dream(attaining one piece) and this is speculated to be akainu, so couldn't that happen to zoro aswell? fights mihawk, becomes the WSS, but he'll still fight some other dude! so nothing really guarantees mihawk being zoro's last ever opponent.


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## Wayne With The Ism (Sep 10, 2014)

I think it's going either way extreme difficulty. Kizaru definitely won't be mid diffing Mihawk though.


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## DavyChan (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> It makes no sense that Zoro will be able to beat Akainu by EoS while Mihawk being weaker than any admiral, thought Mihawk is an EoS opponent of Zoro.



No, it will be like Sasuke vs Itachi. He will beat Mihawk a decent amount of arcs before the end.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

monkey d ace said:


> WB's statement in MF suggests that luffy will still fight someone after achieving his dream(attaining one piece) and this is speculated to be akainu, so couldn't that happen to zoro aswell? fights mihawk, becomes the WSS, but he'll still fight some other dude! so nothing really guarantees mihawk being zoro's last ever opponent.



It also doesnt guarantees that if zoro fights shiliew, he will have the WSS title.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 10, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> No, it will be like Sasuke vs Itachi. He will beat Mihawk a decent amount of arcs before the end.




Hahaha sure Mr. Kishimoto.


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## Gohara (Sep 10, 2014)

I think Zoro will fight Mihawk in the second or third (probably second) to last Arc.  Some time after that I think Shiryu will defeat Mihawk, and will then fight Zoro in the final battle between the Strawhat Pirates vs. Blackbeard Pirates.

I would find it odd for Oda to have Shiryu defeat Mihawk before Zoro fights Mihawk.  Oda knows how much fans want to see Zoro vs. Mihawk for the title of World's Best Swordsman.  I don't think he would knowingly disappoint so many people when the same effect could be had by just doing the scenario I mentioned above.

I mean Oda could still go with Shiryu defeating Mihawk before Zoro fights Mihawk, but I'm leaning more towards it happening differently.


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## Jellal Fernandes (Sep 10, 2014)

Captain Altintop said:


> This again ... Mihawk extreme diffs . Mihawk is FA Akainu's equal.



There is nothing he has done that is even in the same realm as Akainu.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 10, 2014)

TheWiggian said:


> It also doesnt guarantees that if zoro fights shiliew, he will have the WSS title.


exactly, and that's why we shouldn't be using EOS possible match-ups as proof to back up any claims.


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## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 11, 2014)

dpwater25 said:


> No, it will be like Sasuke vs Itachi. He will beat Mihawk a decent amount of arcs before the end.



That seems like a reach since Mihawk is definitely the strongest swordsman in the known world. Unless someone magical world shows up, I don't see a huge powerup for Zoro after he beats Mihawk. 

Also the Shiryuu wank is pretty insane to me. Dude has shown literally nothing and is somehow going to beat Mihawk despite being a known swordsman who was in captivity?


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## Sablés (Sep 11, 2014)

Mihawk

better destructive feats and better hype. Not much Kizaru can do here. Akainu is the only Admiral I feel would beat Mihawk and that's only because I believe he will become stronger than his teammates


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## Arkash (Sep 11, 2014)

Mihawk very high diff


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## Suit (Sep 11, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Mihawk
> 
> better destructive feats





is more destructive than



?


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## Lycka (Sep 11, 2014)

Roo said:


> is more destructive than
> 
> 
> 
> ?



Mihawks mountain slice *was multiple times *bigger than that mangrove tree.

Theres a reason Luffy brushed off a kick from Kizaru yet couldn't afford to get hit by Mihawk.


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## Sablés (Sep 11, 2014)

1) Anime. Are you sane?

2) You know damn well that isn't the feat I'm talking about. You can't even downplay properly.


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## Suit (Sep 11, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Mihawks mountain slice *was multiple times *bigger than that mangrove tree.
> 
> Theres a reason Luffy brushed off a kick from Kizaru yet couldn't afford to get hit by Mihawk.



The iceberg feat covered a wider range, but the "destructive" force was not nearly as much as the mangrove tree. I chose the gif I did because it was an example of a more "destructive" attack.

I have yet to see anyone bar Whitebeard himself pull off a destructive feat as amazing as Kizaru's. For obvious reasons I still place Sakazuki and Kuzan negligibly above him, but the feat is solid.


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## Ruse (Sep 11, 2014)

Lycka said:


> Mihawks mountain slice *was multiple times *bigger than that mangrove tree.
> 
> Theres a reason Luffy brushed off a kick from Kizaru yet couldn't afford to get hit by Mihawk.



That same Luffy was dodging slashes from Mihawk but was helpless against Kizaru....


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## Suit (Sep 11, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> 1) Anime. Are you sane?
> 
> 2) You know damn well that isn't the feat I'm talking about. You can't even downplay properly.



1) IIRC, it was in the manga as well. Admittedly I could be wrong.

2) It's more "destructive" than the iceberg feat. The iceberg feat wasn't exactly "destructive." Not sure what the term would be, but it was just a gigantic slice. The gif I posted was an example of a more "destructive" attack.


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## Lycka (Sep 11, 2014)

Roo said:


> 1) IIRC, it was in the manga as well. Admittedly I could be wrong.
> 
> 2) It's more "destructive" than the iceberg feat. The iceberg feat wasn't exactly "destructive." Not sure what the term would be, but it was just a gigantic slice. The gif I posted was an example of a more "destructive" attack.



You'd have a point if the mountain didn't lift up from the sheer physical force.

That'd literally require hundreds of thousand of ton force.
Mihawks feat was more impressive  in every sense of the word.

Mihawks slashes are more lethal than Kizarus lazer kicks, that's an irrefutable manga fact.



Scary stuff that Mihawk hasn't used a serious move yet


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## Mihawk (Sep 11, 2014)

Mihawk wins extreme difficulty 

Mountain slice=greater AoE I believe

also consider the fact that it wasn't just a casual slashing tech, but rather, it was simply the effect and  force that was emitted from his half-hearted swing, which cut the mountain range.


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## Suit (Sep 11, 2014)

Lycka said:


> You'd have a point if the mountain didn't lift up from the sheer physical force.
> 
> That'd literally require hundreds of thousand of ton force.
> Mihawks feat was more impressive  in every sense of the word.
> ...



Unless you have calculations, I consider Kizaru's attack to be more destructive on the basis that it packs more energy release than Mihawk's. Force is overshadowed by energy when the topic is straight up _destruction._


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## trance (Sep 11, 2014)

Mihawk's DC feats are *not* better than Kizaru's. On the same level but not better, at least not to a very noticeable degree. Not to mention, both have done said feats with seemingly similar levels of casualness, so I wouldn't say he's capable of much more destruction than Kizaru.


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## Sablés (Sep 11, 2014)

Roo said:


> Unless you have calculations, I consider Kizaru's attack to be more destructive on the basis that it packs more energy release than Mihawk's. Force is overshadowed by energy when the topic is straight up _destruction._


*le sigh*

What you consider destruction is no more than the result of energy imparted onto a target. Mihawk's slashing that mountain into the air is the result of Kinetic energy created from his swing just as Kizaru's mangrove kick was applied via his laser's energy. Ergo, same shit, different means.

And who the hell bothers using calculations for _in-verse_ comparisons?



Stαrkiller said:


> Mihawk's DC feats are *not* better than Kizaru's. On the same level but not better, at least not to a very noticeable degree. Not to mention, both have done said feats with seemingly similar levels of casualness, so I wouldn't say he's capable of much more destruction than Kizaru.




That's up to interpretation. I find Mihawk slicing that mountain apart to be impressive but the real kicker is the distance in which Mihawk's slash was implemented. Air pressure drastically weakens with time and distance yet his feat is still comparable to Kizaru's. That must mean the sword swing itself has more energy   than what was seen. Given Mihawk has only fought using casual sword swings whereas we've seen several named techniques from Kizaru, I'm giving the former the benefit of the doubt


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## Sablés (Sep 11, 2014)

Unbelievable that  I had to go into detail explaining the specifics of destructive capacity

like it isn't the most rudimentary aspect of debates of this kind

Kizaru razes an island with a light kick. Garp knocks out someone with continent level durability using the force of a punch. Who in their right mind will argue Kizaru's feat is of a higher quality...because reasons? 

It's like the OL doesn't grasp the fundamentals of downplay. The point is to remain overly skeptical of feats to irritating levels but never at the expense of your common sense, to the extent where one would question whether you've caught a severe case of autism. Roo definitely has a firm grasp on the former, the latter half, not so much.


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## Krippy (Sep 11, 2014)

continent level durability


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## Suit (Sep 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> It's like the OL doesn't grasp the fundamentals of downplay. The point is to remain overly skeptical of feats to irritating levels but never at the expense of your common sense, to the extent where one would question whether you've caught a severe case of autism. Roo definitely has a firm grasp on the former, the latter half, not so much.



Oh, is it time for the ad hominems now?


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## Haruhifan21 (Sep 12, 2014)

Heavenly Demon said:


> That same Luffy was dodging slashes from Mihawk but was helpless against Kizaru....



You think having Mihawk cut Luffy in two is good for the plot?


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## Sablés (Sep 12, 2014)

Roo said:


> Oh, is it time for the ad hominems now?



More like Strawmen/red herrings on your part

considering you ignored everything else to focus on the thinly-veiled-but-not-really insults


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## Suit (Sep 12, 2014)

Where have I used a straw man or red herring?


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## Nox (Sep 12, 2014)

Kizaru wins this.


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## monkey d ace (Sep 12, 2014)

rainyrabbit said:


> You think having Mihawk cut Luffy in two is good for the plot?


DAZ managed to survive just fine, so i dunno why not luffy?
seriously tho, that also goes for kizaru.


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## Maester (Sep 12, 2014)

Mihawk wins with high+ difficulty.


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## maupp (Sep 12, 2014)

Mihawk takes this. 

And another thread from "Piratehuntereddy" pretending to be a Zolo fan with his avatar and sig yet he's a Sanji fan :rofl. Dude since he signed into this forum has always been anti Zoro and no one can remember a post from a supposedly Zoro fan that ever say anything positive about him. He's always about downplaying zoro and all that. 

By now people have already figured that you're an anti zoro fan(probably a Sanji fans) who registered as a zoro fan with Avatar and name in order to make it seem like you're an Zolo fan that doesn't "wank" him or anything. But you just go to far in your Zolo downplaying that the cat was out of the bag a looooong time ago. 

Just get a Sanji avatar and name already, we know who you are .


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## Ruse (Sep 12, 2014)

rainyrabbit said:


> You think having Mihawk cut Luffy in two is good for the plot?



As if you took my post seriously


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## Lycka (Sep 12, 2014)

maupp said:


> Mihawk takes this.
> 
> And another thread from "Piratehuntereddy" pretending to be a Zolo fan with his avatar and sig yet he's a Sanji fan :rofl. Dude since he signed into this forum has always been anti Zoro and no one can remember a post from a supposedly Zoro fan that ever say anything positive about him. He's always about downplaying zoro and all that.
> 
> ...



Lol dude's a troll. Negged his ass.


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## Sablés (Sep 12, 2014)

Roo said:


> Where have I used a straw man or red herring?





> you ignored everything else to focus on the thinly-veiled-but-not-really insults




And what the hell does Zoro have to do with any of this. Seriously, this "Mihawk will be Zolo's final opponent" logic is horrendously bad because there isn't a shred of evidence to it. Nothing but fanwank and speculation and even if it was true, it still wouldn't put him above the Admirals. Mihawk has the individual hype and feats by himself to take on kizaru, stop that nonsense.


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## RF (Sep 12, 2014)

Mihawk still wins. Get over it.


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