# Luffy vs MF WB



## ClannadFan (Jan 14, 2022)

MF WB is arguably weaker than Kaido (Not imo) So I'm curious if people think Luffy can give him a run for his money yet given how he can casually go back and forth against Kaido now.

In this scenario WB will only get 1 heart attack that Luffy can capitalize on.


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## Alex Payne (Jan 14, 2022)

I just can't see Luffy attacking WB when his heart is acting up. Not in his nature imo.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Corax (Jan 14, 2022)

I go with WB extreme due to fact that Luffy has a rubber DF advantage here. Though old or not WB still has haki to mitigate it. With no DF disadvantage it would've been high diff for WB.


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

If WB only gets one heart attack then he'd be a better version of WB than MF WB. Luffy does have the stats to keep up, and actually outclasses Old WB in speed and CoO. We know WB has aCoC, but we don't know if he also has the highest level of aCoA. It's silly to just assume he does just for being a top tier when he and most top tiers don't have advanced CoO. MF WB isn't built for a long battle. He'd need to stick around for quite a while if he wants to outlast current Luffy. Also WB's DF isn't good vs rubber. 
So Luffy wins.


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## Amol (Jan 14, 2022)

Well WB would still win.
It is not like Luffy is actually having 1v 1 vs Kaido. Luffy is doing the most work sure but he is not Kaido's peer. 

Same thing with Whitebeard.
Luffy would give a good fight and then he will lose.

High diff I think.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy wins. WB suffered from heart attacks and inconsistent haki. 

Luffy has the tools to deal with that version of WB. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 4


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## TheOmega (Jan 14, 2022)

Does MF WB even get the heart attack if Squardo doesn't heartstab him first?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy wins, especially if he doesn't get merciful when WB gets on his knees.


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> MF WB is arguably weaker than Kaido (Not imo) So I'm curious if people think Luffy can give him a run for his money yet given how he can casually go back and forth against Kaido now.
> 
> In this scenario WB will only get 1 heart attack that Luffy can capitalize on.


But how though? Sengoku said he was the strongest man in the world. MF WB>Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

Also, Luffy has Internal Destruction CoA. Neither Kaidou or BM had that, and we're not sure about WB either. If WB only gets one heart attack Luffy might just give him another after hitting him in the chest.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> But how though? Sengoku said he was the strongest man in the world. MF WB>Kaido.


Not my opinion, but I know a decent amount of posters here believe Kaido was stronger than MF/Old WB. The reasoning has something to do with him being sick and old.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 14, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Does MF WB even get the heart attack if Squardo doesn't heartstab him first?


Yes he does. The machines were stabilising his condition. He wasn't getting heart attacks because of the stab. 


The crazy hacker said:


> But how though? Sengoku said he was the strongest man in the world. MF WB>Kaido.


Sengoku referred to his title that was out of date by that time. Sengoku isn't Oda btw.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 14, 2022)

The stab Whitebeard took from Squard is a worse injury than anything Kaido suffered prior to the current 1v1, and Kaido also has regen which Whitebeard didn't have. How do we feel about that?

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> The stab Whitebeard took from Squard is a worse injury than anything Kaido suffered prior to the current 1v1, and Kaido also has regen which Whitebeard didn't have. How do we feel about that?


I feel that it's a stupid explanation based on nothing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Delta Shell (Jan 14, 2022)

I voted WB

but Quakes vs Rubber....

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Dellinger (Jan 14, 2022)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> The stab Whitebeard took from Squard is a worse injury than anything Kaido suffered prior to the current 1v1, and Kaido also has regen which Whitebeard didn't have. How do we feel about that?


There is no proof neither any mention of Kaido regenerating

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> Not my opinion, but I know a decent amount of posters here believe Kaido was stronger than MF/Old WB. The reasoning has something to do with him being sick and old.





Seraphoenix said:


> Yes he does. The machines were stabilising his condition. He wasn't getting heart attacks because of the stab.
> 
> Sengoku referred to his title that was out of date by that time. Sengoku isn't Oda btw.


But he said that even when Kaido was there so it makes sense that WB>Kaido.
Doflamingo even said the same thing.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jan 14, 2022)

Medicinebeard>MFbeard>Kaido>Stabbeard>>>>Heartattackbeard>>>>Headblownoffbeard

Source(s): Oda told me this personally during one of our many seaside night walks.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Lewd 4


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy extreme diff

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> But he said that even when Kaido was there so it makes sense that WB>Kaido.
> Doflamingo even said the same thing.


That doesn't matter. WB and Sengoku didn't see each other for decades. He had no idea that WB had deteriorated to that degree. We even know from the Ace novel that the WB pirates were hiding his condition. Despite that, the general consensus was the Kaido beats Old WB 1v1. Nevermind the one at MF. 

Take Tyson Fury. He gets into a street fight and gets stabbed multiple times. He's still heavy weight champ despite it being the case that at that moment, he would lose to many other boxers. A title isn't word of god. It's merely a perception.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

Delta Shell said:


> but Quakes vs Rubber....


Yep. I know people want to vote WB so half did, but DF weaknesses are a thing. I'm not sure what advantage WB still has in this matchup when his strongest asset, DC, doesn't work too well against rubber. In addition to the DF disadvantage he has areas that he gets outclassed in like speed, CoO, stamina, and possibly CoA mastery depending whether he also has CoA 3.0.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Jan 14, 2022)

WB FOr the WIN.

One quake and Luffy find himself in Marijoina.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 2


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## TheOmega (Jan 14, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Yes he does. The machines were stabilising his condition. He wasn't getting heart attacks because of the stab.
> 
> Sengoku referred to his title that was out of date by that time. Sengoku isn't Oda btw.


He literally got stabbed in the heart bro

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Jan 14, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Also, Luffy has Internal Destruction CoA. Neither Kaidou or BM had that, and we're not sure about WB either. If WB only gets one heart attack Luffy might just give him another after hitting him in the chest.


Kaido took a lot of them and wasn't bothered. WB is even greater endurance monster (he took hundreds of attacks, inculding top tier attacks).


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

It's not that MF WB can't win at all, but with quakes against Luffy's rubber? Lol. Come on guys. Think of something more convincing.


Corax said:


> Kaido took a lot of them and wasn't bothered. WB is even greater endurance monster (he took hundreds of attacks, inculding top tier attacks).


Except Kaidou doesn't have a heart condition and WB does. That's why he's already getting one in this matchup, which has been specified in the OP. Also WB has weaker durability than Kaidou. He gets injured by random fodders. Meanwhile the endurance advantage WB supposedly has over Kaidou can be argued one way or the other. Kaidou's not even done.


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Corax said:


> Kaido took a lot of them and wasn't bothered. WB is even *greater endurance monster *(he took hundreds of attacks, inculding top tier attacks).


Lol, no

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Lol, no


Kaido didnt fight the 3 admirals and have a heart attack and get stabbed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Jan 14, 2022)

WB wins extreme diff if he doesn't get a heart attack

since OP specifies that he does WB gets clapped

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Corax (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Lol, no


Kaido wasn't pierced in his heart,didn't suffer burned lungs, his chest wasn't magma pierced, half of his head wasn't destroyed,he wasn't pierced by 100 cannonballs and 400 bullets. He might be more durable,but for sure WB can tolerate greater punishment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Kaido didnt fight the 3 admirals and have a heart attack and get stabbed.


Fighting admirals for one minute isn't a big deal , they were not even fights but skirmishes


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 14, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> He literally got stabbed in the heart bro


If he got stabbed in the heart he would die.

I’m no doctor but I don’t think getting stabbed causes heart attacks anyway.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 8


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

Corax said:


> . He *might* be more durable


So you think WB maybe more durable than kaido?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Fighting admirals for one minute isn't a big deal , they were not even fights but skirmishes


Whitebeard had a heart attack though and was stabbed. He beat Akainu while being severely weakened.

Kaido didnt fight anyone close to admiral level intill Post AdCoC Luffy.


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Whitebeard had a heart attack though and was stabbed. He beat Akainu while being severely weakened.
> 
> Kaido didnt fight anyone close to top tier intill Post AdCoC Luffy.


Agreed about first point , but none showed adv coc and kaido fought BM

MF WB's haki was trash


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Agreed about first point , but none showed adv coc and kaido fought BM
> 
> MF WB's haki was trash


Kaido has a better showing but WB had heart attacks. If he didnt have it he would have looked better. Marco even said his health was deteriorating.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 14, 2022)

I think Luffy wins but why does it feel so blasphemous to say that?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Kaido didnt fight the 3 admirals and have a heart attack and get stabbed.


WB took a laser from Kizaru and 2 magma fists from Akainu, all these while highly motivated by Ace's execution. All the others who've attavked him were fodders, who were not even supposed to be capable of hurting a top tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Corax said:


> Kaido wasn't pierced in his heart,didn't suffer burned lungs, his chest wasn't magma pierced, half of his head wasn't destroyed,he wasn't pierced by 100 cannonballs and 400 bullets. He might be more durable,but for sure WB can tolerate greater punishment.


Definitely not. WB took 2 attacks from Akainu and a laser from Kizaru.
LoL, canonballs and bullets...what is this the 1700's in Nassau?

Reactions: Like 1


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> WB took a laser from Kizaru and 2 magma fists from Akainu, all these while highly motivated by Ace's execution. All the others who've attavked him were fodders, who were not even supposed to be capable of hurting a top tier.


Yeah but he had a heart attack and he got stabbed. Marco said his health is deteriorating. Kaido might have a better endurance than WB if he didnt have a heart attack but not without that.

Kaido fought only Luffy(Post AdCoC) and Yamato that where close to admiral level, before his current fight.


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## Corax (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Definitely not. WB took 2 attacks from Akainu and a laser from Kizaru.
> LoL, canonballs and bullets...what is this the 1700's in Nassau?


It doesn't change the fact that WB had like 500 wounds in his body and still could fight. Kaido has no wounds aside from Zoro's scar.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Kaido has a better showing but WB had heart attacks. If he didnt have it he would have looked better. Marco even said his health was deteriorating.


Haki is willpower , health has no relation to it


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

Corax said:


> It doesn't change the fact that WB had like 500 wounds in his body and still could fight. Kaido has no wounds aside from Zoro's scar.


Only sword/magma attacks create wounds 

Kaido has far better dura and regen so its tricky to guage is endurance but he is also lifting an island


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Haki is willpower , health has no relation to it


If a guy has a heart attack then its going to make him be able to take less damage then if he was healthy.


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> If a guy has a heart attack then its going to make him be able to take less damage then if he was healthy.


Yeah? So? We are talking about MF WB


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Yeah? So? We are talking about MF WB


MF WB could have not gotten a heart attack.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## A Optimistic (Jan 14, 2022)

There is a panel of Marco saying Whitebeard’s health declined with an background image of Whitebeard pulling out his IV systems.

That obviously means that removing his IV systems caused him to have heart attacks.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## The crazy hacker (Jan 14, 2022)

A Optimistic said:


> There is a panel of Marco saying Whitebeard’s health declined with any image of Whitebeard pulling out his IV systems.
> 
> That obviously means that removing his IV systems caused him to have heart attacks.


Oh ok then fair enough.


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## A Optimistic (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> Oh ok then fair enough.



Here’s the panel if you’re curious.

Reactions: Like 5


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

The crazy hacker said:


> MF WB could have not gotten a heart attack.


He was sick before hand


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## oiety (Jan 14, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> I think Luffy wins but why does it feel so blasphemous to say that?


Because Luffy being stronger than the strongest man pre-timeskip signals that, after all of these years, we're finally reaching the end of the manga. 

OT: WB extreme with the heart attacks, imo.


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

I feel like if this poll was made a month ago it would've gone in WB's favor.


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## Lawliet (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy smashes WB eventually


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 14, 2022)

Last thing rubber boy is going to hear before turning into G5: Condonman by Whitebeard:

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Jan 14, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> If he got stabbed in the heart he would die.
> 
> I’m no doctor but I don’t think getting stabbed causes heart attacks anyway.


Same way he would die if he got half his head blown off right?  

You don't think an old sick man who suffered no heart attacks prior to getting stabbed in the chest by his own son would start suffering heart attacks after getting stabbed in the chest?


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## Beast (Jan 14, 2022)

Bunch of crack smokers.
WB smacks Kaidou nevermind Luffy.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Beast (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Lol, no


Are… are you saying Kaidou got more endurance then WB? 
loooooooooool

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

WB couldn't even use basic CoC without having a heart attack, I think Luffy has passed him now. Not Primebeard yet ofc

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fel1x (Jan 14, 2022)

MF WB is barely Yonko level
but still was above any admiral
yeah this seems > Luffy, but unlike Akainu who had shitty will and endurance, Luffy would come from underground to continue fighting and eventually would just outlast MF WB

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Beast said:


> Are… are you saying Kaidou got more endurance then WB?
> loooooooooool


Yes, definitely  feats, portrayal, anything. Wether he took 1000 fodder shots or 1000000, it doesn't matter. He only took 2 notable attacks ( Kizaru's laser wasn't even a high-end move ) and then the bb pirates shot him to death.


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## Beast (Jan 14, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, definitely  feats, portrayal, anything. Wether he took 1000 fodder shots or 1000000, it doesn't matter. He only took 2 notable attacks ( Kizaru's laser wasn't even a high-end move ) and then the bb pirates shot him to death.


Looooooooooooool
You’ve actually lost your damn mind… shit.
that’s crazy. And there is no need for the claim of portrayal, when there are feats and no amount underselling of damage changes the actual damage 
I think you gotta do some research on what endurance actually means

Reactions: Funny 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy has a speed and triple haki advantage, all Oldbeard really has for him is quakes but would those even work on the rubber.
 If you think they do then you could see WB pulling a win out of his ass but I just don't

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Beast said:


> Looooooooooooool
> You’ve actually lost your damn mind… shit.
> that’s crazy. And there is no need for the claim of portrayal, when there are feats and no amount underselling of damage changes the actual damage
> I think you gotta do some research on what endurance actually means


Thanks for the concession mon ami

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Van Basten (Jan 14, 2022)

WB obviously — low end of high diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 4


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## Jake CENA (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy kills WB thrice even in his sleep


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

WB > Kaido > Luffy

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Jan 14, 2022)

If Luffy’s rubber really does counter quakes then he high diffs. If they don’t and with the only 1 heart attack condition, WB should extreme diff.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Baroxio (Jan 14, 2022)

Marineford Whitebeard explicitly couldn't use Color of Observation (got stabbed by Squardo) nor could he use the Color of Conqueror (failed to save Ace). It's unknown whether he could even use Color of Armament, since he blocked pretty much zero attacks. IIRC, his fight against Akainu suggested that he only used CoA once, on his final attack. I say this cuz his previous attack deformed Akainu's face, suggesting that he wasn't stopping Akainu's Logia intangibility adequately, but his final direct attack on Akainu's side didn't deform his body and Akainu was taken out of the battle immediately despite what should have been a less vital spot being attacked.

Long story short, Haki-less (or at least inconsistent-Haki) Whitebeard is weaker than current Kaido and Luffy.


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

WB slammed an Admiral with half his head missing and chest full of magma, then wrecked Teach after splitting MF in two. When did Luffy get to that level?


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## Commanderbilli (Jan 14, 2022)

WB is not letting dudes hit him and he packs a harder punch than Kaido.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 14, 2022)

Why would Rubber have resistance to quakes when every single time Luffy has been hit by shockwaves, he has been shown injured and bleeding heavily?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Dark Knight (Jan 14, 2022)

Commanderbilli said:


> *WB is not letting dudes hit him* and he packs a harder punch than Kaido.


Mate, WB couldn't even dodge muthafucking Squardo what are you talking about?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mariko (Jan 14, 2022)

Current Luffy high/extreme diff MF WB. 

Saying otherwise is being delusional. 

We're talking about old sick WB remember, not prime as Kaidou is rn.

AdCoC rubber Luffy tanks any WB quakes. 

Old WB doesn't tank dozen of AdCoC punches/kicks in his ass.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grinningfox (Jan 14, 2022)

Didn’t WB get a free bisento shot on Kizaru and nothing happened?


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## Mariko (Jan 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> WB slammed an Admiral with half his head missing and chest full of magma, then wrecked Teach after splitting MF in two. When did Luffy get to that level?



Dresrosa Luffy splitted an ~MF sized area with KKG remember?

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Dresrosa Luffy splitted an ~MF sized area with KKG remember?


Yeah I forgot the part where he was missing half his head.

What people are saying is that the SHs are already the strongest crew in the world at this point if Luffy > WB.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> Mate, WB couldn't even dodge muthafucking Squardo what are you talking about?


Or hundreds of other fodders


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## Dark Knight (Jan 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Yeah I forgot the part where he was missing half his head.
> 
> *What people are saying is that the SHs are already the strongest crew in the world at this point if Luffy > WB.*


That's not the case if people don't think MF WB was the strongest yonko at the time.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Mariko (Jan 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> Yeah I forgot the part where he was missing half his head.
> 
> What people are saying is that the SHs are already the strongest crew in the world at this point if Luffy > WB.



Though it was old sick WB. Hence not the WSM anymore. 

Current prime Kaidou > MF WB for sure.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Though it was old sick WB. Hence not the WSM anymore.
> 
> Current prime Kaidou > MF WB for sure.


???

What does that even have to do with this? Luffy is not on that level plain and simple. A single attack from Akainu would end him. He would never come close to pulling the same feats WB did in MF.

Reactions: Disagree 5 | Optimistic 2


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> That's not the case if people don't think MF WB was the strongest yonko at the time.


The WBPs were known as the strongest crew pre-skip according to the narrator on chapter 909.


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## Dark Knight (Jan 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> The WBPs were known as the strongest crew pre-skip according to the narrator on chapter 909.


Word? I thought the narrator said they were all powerful which doesn't necessarily mean the strongest?


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## Eustathios (Jan 14, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> Word? I thought the narrator said they were all powerful which doesn't necessarily mean the strongest?


All-powerful is defined as having supereme or unchallenged power, which is also in line with Garp and Doffy's description of WB as the ruler of the seas.

The actual term used was saikyo-no (the strongest WBPs), which is also used in WB and Mihawk's titles.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Baroxio (Jan 14, 2022)

The title of the Strongest is based off of reputation and doesn't include his current level of deterioration (which is worse than even the Whitebeard Pirates imagined, given how shocked even they were at his lack of ability to deal with what would normally be minor threats). It's not like he gained the title _after_ getting the heart-attack. You can be the strongest fighter in the world, but if you're in the ER on life support moments away from death...yeah, maybe some runner-ups _might_ be expected to take that title away from you.

Reactions: Like 8


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

He's matching weakened Kaido....he's not beating someone stronger than Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> He's matching weakened Kaido....he's not beating someone stronger than Kaido.


Random heart attack having WB with nerfed speed and struggling to use haki is above Kaido?


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

YoungChief said:


> Random heart attack having WB with nerfed speed and struggling to use haki is above Kaido?


Obviously. Marineford Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Jay. (Jan 14, 2022)

luffy vs newgate doesn't work in opverse


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Obviously. Marineford Whitebeard is the strongest man in the world.


In terms of raw power I would agree but his other abilities are lacking at that point


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## VileNotice (Jan 14, 2022)

It goes to extreme, and just like against an extended fight with one of the admirals at MF WB would go down in the end.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

Never forget; Whitebeard split an island with the by-blow of an attack. Like.....he didn't even aim the attack downwards and the shockwave still split the island through Akainu's durability.


This is dropping every character we've seen in the series considering Kaido got laid out by Kong Gatling.



YoungChief said:


> In terms of raw power I would agree but his other abilities are lacking at that point


Lacking relative to who? You think he can't hit Kaido or Luffy?

Reactions: Like 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Probably not? Luffy has future sight, and advanced CoC to defend himself. Marco was shocked that WB would ever get hit by Squardo even without CoO so its not like sickbeard is portrayed as a speedster whereas Luffy and Kaido are

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

Whitebeard was so weak that he couldn't even land hits on the other Yonku? There's doubting that Whitebeard was the strongest and then there's pure nonsense.

If he cannot hit the Yonku he cannot match them in any way. He'd just be standing around missing punches while he got his ass beat for a day.

You know, maybe Marco was actually stronger than Whitebeard since he's fast enough to react to Yonku. Even the Zoro that got his ass beat by King could react to and hit Kaido.....come on now.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 14, 2022)

WB mid-high diff. WSM > Luffee


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

WB is experienced enough in combat that I'm sure he wouldn't just be swatting at air but he's definitely slower than they are in his condition and they have better means to defend themselves with superior haki usage they have of all 3 types


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## featherine augustus (Jan 14, 2022)

It won't be easy for WB to land contact attack the way he did akainu ; and WB hasn't shown speed/agility of kaido and obvi doesn't have his dura


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Never ceases to amaze me how Luffy fans just go straight off the deep end. 
WB sends him to get his straw hat signed by Roger.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how Luffy fans just go straight off the deep end.
> WB sends him to get his straw hat signed by Roger.


Ok man when do you think Luffy will be on Primebeard level then? If you think he's not even near Oldbeard level now while going 1v1 with Kaido, would beating Blackbeard even put him at Oldbeard level for you?


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

YoungChief said:


> Ok man when do you think Luffy will be on Primebeard level then? If you think he's not even near Oldbeard level now while going 1v1 with Kaido, would beating Blackbeard even put him at Oldbeard level for you?


This wasn’t a 1v1. Like how do you guys ignore the other 15 mfs including some low top tier characters that fought this guy nonstop since the raid started? And factor in the fact that he’s been carrying an island with his DF power all this time? How do you look at that and conclude that this was a 1v1? Serious question.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> This wasn’t a 1v1. Like how do you guys ignore the other 15 mfs including some low top tier characters that fought this guy nonstop since the raid started? And factor in the fact that he’s been carrying an island with his DF power all this time? How do you look at that and conclude that this was a 1v1? Serious question.


True but I guess I see it differently, I feel like Luffy has been growing throughout the fight especially with the CoC buff to the point where if it was all reset both fighters at 100% I still think it would be as close as it is now, Luffy took quite a few lumps to get his buffs in this fight too


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

YoungChief said:


> True but I guess I see it differently, I feel like Luffy has been growing throughout the fight especially with the CoC buff to the point where if it was all reset both fighters at 100% I still think it would be as close as it is now, Luffy took quite a few lumps to get his buffs in this fight too


Lmfao. Kaido put Luffy on two different t shirts on the RT alone and he never got a rest. This fight is 100% in plot’s hands. Kaido is getting dicked as every other arc villain has. Realistically Luffy is still not his peer. Luffy’s the one that got to eat and replenish himself. Kaido has not. Luffy fans will ignore this as they’ve been doing and claim that Luffy is 1v1ing though.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## January (Jan 14, 2022)

Same as Luffy vs Z


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Lmfao. Kaido put Luffy on two different t shirts on the RT alone and he never got a rest. This fight is 100% in plot’s hands. Kaido is getting dicked as every other arc villain has. Realistically Luffy is still not his peer. Luffy’s the one that got to eat and replenish himself. Kaido has not. Luffy fans will ignore this as they’ve been doing and claim that Luffy is 1v1ing though.


Luffys damage is still there though neither one is at 100 right now, Kaido is acknowledging his power now and says he can't remember the last time he took a fight this seriously and he had just fought Big Mom not too long ago. I'm not saying Luffy would clap Big Mom or Kaido at 100% but I do think with current Luffy it would be about as close as it currently is for a while and be a high diff loss mainly due to lack of advanced CoC experience, he still isn't using it with gear 4 for some reason


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

YoungChief said:


> Luffys damage is still there though neither one is at 100 right now, Kaido is acknowledging his power now and says he can't remember the last time he took a fight this seriously and he had just fought Big Mom not too long ago. I'm not saying Luffy would clap Big Mom or Kaido at 100% but I do think with current Luffy it would be about as close as it currently is for a while and be a high diff loss mainly due to lack of advanced CoC experience, he still isn't using it with gear 4 for some reason


I’m not saying it’s not but it’s painfully obvious that he ain’t ready to beat solid top tiers 1v1 start to finish. I also think it makes a ton of more sense to stick with his base/Gears 2 and 3 if he’s this strong seeing how he has no time limit. ATP with his nom G4 self being so strong he’d only be putting himself in a position where he *has *to end a fight within that scope of time which isn’t happening vs top tiers unless the time limit is removed.


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## forkandspoon (Jan 14, 2022)

A lot of people have just straight up written off DF fruits when high level haki is in play.... but it would be so lame if when BB and Luffy finally fight Oda does 1) Make Luffy immune to it because he's rubber. 2) Make it not important because of Haki..... I think WB fucks Luffy up up until after we see Luffy sized up against Shanks.


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## Silver (Jan 14, 2022)

this luffy wank is getting out of control

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 4


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Silver said:


> this luffy wank is getting out of control

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Canute87 (Jan 14, 2022)

It all depends on how well Luffy can take one of those quakes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


>


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## 9TalesOfDestruction (Jan 14, 2022)

Hard to say, WB's haki was definitely weakened in marine ford and he even got stabbed by Squardo. But his Quake fruit plus haki was still extremely powerful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy wins

Reactions: Like 1


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## Empathy (Jan 14, 2022)

Current Luffy isn’t two-shotting Akainu, lol.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Empathy said:


> Current Luffy isn’t two-shotting Akainu, lol.


According to the fan base Luffy would t even need 2 hits

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> According to the fan base Luffy would t even need 2 hits


*According to the fan base, EOS Luffy would be mid diffed by a serious MF Whitebeard. 
At least half of you guys voting for WB probably also think MF WB could high or extreme diff current M3.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## convict (Jan 14, 2022)

Holy shit Luffy is winning the poll  

Lets wait at least for him to get his inevitable awakening power up first.

I am reading around this week that he beats WB and he also solos the strawhats after a few exchanges with Kaido both of whom aren't remotely going all out. Luffy is truly the most overrated character there is. Inevitably when he finally does actually become the strongest individual character in the series I guarantee arguments that he solos the rest of the verse will start cropping up

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TheWiggian (Jan 14, 2022)

And they say Zoro fans are toxic and tards

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Dellinger (Jan 14, 2022)

convict said:


> Holy shit Luffy is winning the poll
> 
> Lets wait at least for him to get his inevitable awakening power up first.
> 
> I am reading around this week that he beats WB and he also solos the strawhats after a few exchanges with Kaido both of whom aren't remotely going all out. Luffy is truly the most overrated character there is. Inevitably when he finally does actually become the strongest individual character in the series I guarantee people will be arguing he solos the rest of the verse


Luffy the most overrated ? People literally said that King is pretty close to Kaido in strength just to wank the shit out of Zoro and you call Luffy the most overrated ? Come on bro

Reactions: Funny 6


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## convict (Jan 14, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> Luffy the most overrated ? People literally said that King is pretty close to Kaido in strength just to wank the shit out of Zoro and you call Luffy the most overrated ? Come on bro



Lets keep Zoro out of it for one thread boys come on. 


Anyway 3-4 Zoro fans talking shit doesn't remotely come close to 62 percent of the entire forum thinking he beats friggin Whitebeard based on a few exchanges with Kaido.


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## T.D.A (Jan 14, 2022)

I mean if Old WB gets a heart attack whilst fighting Luffy then the advantage is all with Luffy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## convict (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> I mean if Old WB gets a heart attack whilst fighting Luffy then the advantage is all with Luffy.



He is only allowed one heart attack so enough for Luffy to get one clean shot in like a red roc or whatever. Big Deal. A much more lethal fighter in Akainu got that in and WB also had a sword through his chest and he still kept trucking away like a madman in Marineford.


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

WB was still regarded the strongest despite his illness and heart attacks in the same era where Kaido, BM and Shanks were regarded comparable. He still had Sengoku shitting his pants. Still had the utmost respect from Larp (for whatever that’s actually worth) still split the skies with Shanks. Like, everyone in verse respects WB enough to know he’s still that dude even in old age. Leave it to the OL dude.

Reactions: GODA 1


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## T.D.A (Jan 14, 2022)

convict said:


> He is only allowed one heart attack so enough for Luffy to get one clean shot in like a red roc or whatever. Big Deal. A much more lethal fighter in Akainu got that in and WB also had a sword through his chest and he still kept trucking away like a madman in Marineford.



Akainu wasn't using Advanced CoC though and Luffy is also probably faster with FS as well. Plus WB in Marineford went on a last hurray literally fought to the death.


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## convict (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> Akainu wasn't using Advanced CoC though and Luffy is also probably faster with FS as well. Plus WB in Marineford went on a last hurray literally fought to the death.



I would wager a full on Magma fist to the chest will do much more damage than a Red Roc. I mean when you have the entire Marineford attacking you half your head blown off, chest opened up, a sword through your stomach on top of that heart attack then it is about expected that you will die. In this case though it is only one heart attack for which Luffy gets one free hit.


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## T.D.A (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> WB was still regarded the strongest despite his illness and heart attacks



People outside of the WB pirates weren't even aware of how bad WB's health deteriorated.



convict said:


> I would wager a full on Magma fist to the chest will do much more damage than a Red Roc.



We know Luffy has internal destruction haki plus now with CoC coating.


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## YoungChief (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> People outside of the WB pirates weren't even aware of how bad WB's health deteriorated.
> 
> 
> 
> We know Luffy has internal destruction haki plus now with CoC coating.


Even Marco of all people wasn't fully aware of the extent to which WB had deteriorated, and you have WB himself saying he couldn't be the strongest forever, he's only one man, with one heart (and several heart attacks)

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dellinger (Jan 14, 2022)

A full magma fist was stopped by Shanks like it was some kid punch 

WB was also swatting away Akainus magma attacks like nothing 

Stop overrating Akainus feats. WBs was on deathbed already, he was going into that war ready to die

Reactions: Tier Specialist 5


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## Kamisori (Jan 14, 2022)

Silver said:


> this luffy wank is getting out of control


I don't think it's Luffy wank, more like the yonk fans downplaying the World's Strong Man Whitebeard because Luffy is currently matching Kaido.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Freechoice (Jan 14, 2022)

Eustathios said:


> ???
> 
> What does that even have to do with this? Luffy is not on that level plain and simple. A single attack from Akainu would end him. He would never come close to pulling the same feats WB did in MF.


You're one of those people that will say Luffy isn't top tier even at the end of the manga.

Let me spell it out for you mate

This. Is. The. Endgame.

At this point Luffy isn't getting one hit by Akainu. Stop being ludicrous.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dellinger (Jan 14, 2022)

Freechoice said:


> You're one of those people that will say Luffy isn't top tier even at the end of the manga.
> 
> Let me spell it out for you mate
> 
> ...


People just want to wank Akainu. If Luffy wins here what is Akainu supposed to do end game ? Even though Oda has established Teach and Im as the big bads in the end


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## lightcrowler (Jan 14, 2022)

Lets be fucking real and clear for a moment.
IF Oda is consistent with what he himself has written and showed then Luffy absolutely beats MF Whitebeard.

I think for a lot of us it’s hard to grasp the level of Haki mastery Luffy has because Oda for some weird reason just can’t make him use them efficiently.

Luffy has three advanced Haki colors at his disposal. Only having one, according to Ray, makes you one of the strongest and Luffy has fucking three of them.

Luffy is certainly, unequivocal, a solid Top tier right now and imo would beat mf whitebeard, because the later was weakened and not in his prime years anymore.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 8 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Perrin (Jan 14, 2022)

Luffy uses awakening on Whitebeards coronary arteries to reverse his ischaemic heart disease, then on his chamber walls to reduce any hypokinesia to keep it a fair fight.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corax (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> I mean if Old WB gets a heart attack whilst fighting Luffy then the advantage is all with Luffy.


One heart attack isn't enough. Well for Luffy at least. He isn't a very lethal fighter. Unless he has some awakening/mega finisher that isn't revealed yet and can KO/kill someone like Kaido in one attack.


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 14, 2022)

Dellinger said:


> People just want to wank Akainu. If Luffy wins here what is Akainu supposed to do end game ? Even though Oda has established Teach and Im as the big bads in the end


So you think Luffy is going to low diff Akainu? Or will Akainu be off-panelled?  Or Luffy wont even fight him, despite Akainu being the man who traumatised him after killing his brother in front of him?



Dellinger said:


> WB was also swatting away Akainus magma attacks like nothing


If you're gonna argue that Akainu's attacks are weak because WB easily deflected them then the same logic applies to WB's attacks, because of Akainu easily blocking his quake with 1 leg and 2 hands in his pockets. This is of course ignoring Akainu's supposedly weak attacks erasing half of WB's face + his DF being stated by WOG to have the highest offensive power.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> People outside of the WB pirates weren't even aware of how bad WB's health deteriorated.
> 
> 
> 
> We know Luffy has internal destruction haki plus now with CoC coating.


Really? So Shanks boarded his ship not expecting WB to be on life support machines and said nothing about it. WH made sure to notice Shanks only had one arm now. IMO this is just as silly as claiming that no one outside of the RHPs and Luffy knew Shanks lost an arm.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Van Basten (Jan 14, 2022)

The poll lmao.

Well, better delusional Luffy wank than the nonsense that was spewed about Kata, King, and Yamato during their “moments.”

Reactions: Funny 4


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## T.D.A (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Really? So Shanks boarded his ship not expecting WB to be on life support machines and said nothing about it. WH made sure to notice Shanks only had one arm now. IMO this is just as silly as claiming that no one outside of the RHPs and Luffy knew Shanks lost an arm.



I mean there's literally a whole scene in Marineford about it...

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 4


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> I mean there's literally a whole scene in Marineford about it...


so you post a *single* person not being aware as justification for saying that *no one* outside of the WBP knew? That's the support?

Not to mention this doesn't even mean that he didn't know. This is the first time he's *experiencing* WB like this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> so you post a *single* person not being aware as justification for saying that *no one* outside of the WBP knew? That's the support?
> 
> Not to mention this doesn't even mean that he didn't know. This is the first time he's *experiencing* WB like this.



"People outside of the WB pirates weren't even aware of how bad WB's health deteriorated." 

If Crocodile, a Warlord, who led a whole organisation and had informants didn't know, then it's safe to say the average fodder didn't know either...and Marco himself who knows about WB's health is still making a point about how bad it's getting...

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

"He only had the title of strongest because people didn't know he was sick" is pure headcanon. There's nothing to indicate he wasn't still top dog. 

Dude split open an island with half his head missing.....still has the best endurance and offensive feats of any individual fighter in the series despite us seeing two other Yonku go all out.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> so you post a *single* person not being aware as justification for saying that *no one* outside of the WBP knew? That's the support?
> 
> Not to mention this doesn't even mean that he didn't know. This is the first time he's *experiencing* WB like this.


You must've not read the panel.

Even Marco evidently wasn't aware of the full extent of WB's health deterioration. This was also a surprise to him. WB's closest vassal.


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

People not realizing there's a decent gap between healthy Oldbeard on meds and MF Sickbeard off meds, even after both Marco and Croc spelled it out for them. Marco obviously knows more about WB's condition than an enemy outside the crew like Sengoku. WB himself no longer considers himself the strongest by that point. He wouldn't instantly lose his title just because he's severely weakened or injured. Nothing stops the other Yonkou from being stronger than MF Sickbeard who had heart attacks multiple times in the course of a few hours.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

T.D.A said:


> "People outside of the WB pirates weren't even aware of how bad WB's health deteriorated."
> 
> If Crocodile, a Warlord, who led a whole organisation and had informants didn't know, then it's safe to say the average fodder didn't know either...and Marco himself who knows about WB's health is still making a point about how bad it's getting...


I know you didn't just quote yourself as evidence moe   

That's not how that works. One person not knowing doesn't speak for the majority. You could even argue that the Marine's turning Squardo against him was a play at his health seeing how Sengoku of all people would know fodder like Squardo isn't dong shit to WB, especially not if he expected him to be healthy.


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> You must've not read the panel.
> 
> Even Marco evidently wasn't aware of the full extent of WB's health deterioration. This was also a surprise to him. WB's closest vassal.


Or it got worse over the course of MF which still doesn't mean no one knew he was sick to begin with.


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Or it got worse over the course of MF which still doesn't mean no one knew he was sick to begin with.


What everyone is telling you is that nobody knew how badly his health deteriorated. Even what you said now about it getting worse over the course of MF could serve to support that. Nobody said that the world wasn't aware he was sick in general.


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## Bobybobster (Jan 14, 2022)

Mariko said:


> Dresrosa Luffy splitted an ~MF sized area with KKG remember?




he just uprooted a small portion, not the whole island lol.  Dude wasn't that strong back then

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> What everyone is telling you is that nobody knew how badly his health deteriorated. Even what you said now about it getting worse over the course of MF could serve to support that. Nobody said that the world wasn't aware he was sick in general.


I see what you're saying. I don't think knowing just how sick matters. They had to have known it was bad enough that he needed ventilators. At the vey least, Shanks was not surprised. No one at MF was surprised that he was having heart attacks mid fight. He was able to maintain all of his territory. Furthermore, he still proved why he had the title in the first place despite the sickness. Idk what more you want.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> People not realizing there's a decent gap between healthy Oldbeard on meds and MF Sickbeard off meds, even after both Marco and Croc spelled it out for them. Marco obviously knows more about WB's condition than an enemy outside the crew like Sengoku. WB himself no longer considers himself the strongest by that point. He wouldn't instantly lose his title just because he's severely weakened or injured. Nothing stops the other Yonkou from being stronger than MF Sickbeard who had heart attacks multiple times in the course of a few hours.


No one has explained yet how Whitebeard being weaker than his past self puts him below Kaido or invalidates his title.

Also "I cannot remain the strongest forever" =/= "I am no longer the strongest."

Reactions: Winner 5


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 14, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> No one has explained yet how Whitebeard being weaker than his past self puts him below Kaido or invalidates his title.
> 
> Also "I cannot remain the strongest forever" =/= "I am no longer the strongest."


Just like no one has proven that him keeping his title while severely weakened means he's still the strongest in his weakened state. You don't instantly lose your title for being temporarily less than strongest. Did the title change hands when BB's crew was on the verge of killing him? Didn't think so. We don't even have a new WSM crowned after two years as far as we know. 

WB said that in response to someone questioning his strength, so yes the implication is he doesn't think of himself as the strongest at that point. He got stalemated by Akainu and arguably lost based on the damage each dealt. Further proving he wasn't the strongest.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 14, 2022)

This is probably Luffy's first big win in the opbd, it's a moment we'll tell our kids about.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Just like no one has proven that him keeping his title while severely weakened means he's still the strongest in his weakened state. You don't instantly lose your title for being temporarily less than strongest.


It doesn't mandate it which is also why we're posting information on his portrayal and feats.

That aside, you have to understand that this is story written by Oda. If he wanted us to know that Whitebeards title came with asterisks, he would have just added them. He would declare through the manga that Whitebeard is the strongest man but would say that he held the title in the past or something similar.



Heart Over Blade said:


> WB said that in response to someone questioning his strength, so yes the implication is he doesn't think of himself as the strongest at that point. He got stalemated by Akainu and arguably lost based on the damage each dealt. Further proving he wasn't the strongest.


There is no implication or hidden meaning. He said he cannot be the strongest forever and not that he is no longer the strongest.
If the latter is what was meant it's what would have been stated.


Chip Skylark said:


> Crocodile calling WB a weakling with WB responding that Croc expected too much of him, and that he's not the monster everyone thinks just before saying that he "can't remain the strongest forever", would in fact imply that he wasn't the strongest anymore.


No it implies that he's getting weaker.


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Of course knowing just how sick matters. Can't appropriately gauge strength otherwise.
> 
> Plenty of people were surprised. Even Marco was surprised. WB's enemies just didn't care. WB was obviously still strong, but I don't get why it's so hard to understand that a character sick enough to suffer debilitating heart attacks mid battle would suffer a defeat in a battle against other top tiers if their opponent didn't relent.


He didn't give anyone any reason to doubt him as the strongest and even in the middle of suffering from heart attacks, no one doubted or even questioned the title. Everyone talked about how fearsome and monstrous he was, not a single comment was made about how weak he'd become and Sengoku still considered him the strongest up until his end. You also can't say *plenty *people were surprised, only name Marco, then say the oppositions just didn't care. They were not surprised. Not a soul.


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> He didn't give anyone any reason to doubt him as the strongest and even in the middle of suffering from heart attacks, no one doubted or even questioned the title. Everyone talked about how fearsome and monstrous he was, *not a single comment was made about how weak he'd become* and Sengoku still considered him the strongest up until his end. You also can't say *plenty *people were surprised, only name Marco, then say the oppositions just didn't care. They were not surprised. Not a soul.


This is the problem. Crocodile, Marco, even Akainu himself. You've been shown multiple times where characters have commented about how weak WB has become, and you're still arguing that not a single person made such a comment. There were several shocked and concerned reactions to WB's heart attack aside from Marco. I could post the panel, but would it really make a difference? The evidence is clearly there, but your insistence on consistently pretending it doesn't exist after being shown it time and again honestly doesn't have me leaping up to go through the effort of showing you _again_ just to repeat the pattern. Gotta show some good faith and at least acknowledge the points that are being repeatedly shown to you.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Godammit (Jan 14, 2022)

MF WB was weak af. He couldnt handle admirals one on one. Only thing he did was blast Akainu on rage power and even still Akainu came back with nothing but a bleeding nose and with enough stamina to eat every pirate there

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> This is the problem. Crocodile, Marco, even Akainu himself. You've been shown multiple times where characters have commented about how weak WB has become, and you're still arguing that not a single person made such a comment. There were several shocked and concerned reactions to WB's heart attack aside from Marco. I could post the panel, but would it really make a difference? The evidence is clearly there, but your insistence on consistently pretending it doesn't exist after being shown it time and again honestly doesn't have me leaping up to go through the effort of showing you _again_ just to repeat the pattern. Gotta show some good faith and at least acknowledge the points that are being repeatedly shown to you.


I'll admit I misspoke there. However, this supports a decline from his prime self in the case of Croc and Akainu. Actually, Akainu didn't even think much of Prime WB based on what he was saying to Ace. None of that is evidence that he wasn't still the WSM. He held onto the title for a reason. People like Sengoku and Garp who knew him well through his Prime and were watching suffer these heart attacks did not doubt that he was still the WSM for a second. Oda never made it a point to discredit the title that he gave to the man. WB not being WSM even by MF is pure speculation and fanfic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> I'll admit I misspoke there. However, this supports a decline from his prime self in the case of Croc and Akainu. Actually, Akainu didn't even think much of Prime WB based on what he was saying to Ace. None of that is evidence that he wasn't still the WSM. He held onto the title for a reason. People like Sengoku and Garp who knew him well through his Prime and were watching suffer these heart attacks did not doubt that he was still the WSM for a second. Oda never made it a point to discredit the title that he gave to the man. WB not being WSM even by MF is pure speculation and fanfic.


Akainu was clearly just taunting Ace.

WB maintained the title for so long that it essentially became his epithet. As everyone else has already said, they wouldn't suddenly strip him of it mid battle after witnessing his decline in strength. That's not how people work. For a real world example, Usain Bolt has lost races in front of an international audience and people still haven't stopped calling him the fastest man in the world even after his retirement because that's what he was known as for so long.

A simple title doesn't somehow hold more meaning than his actual performance. We outright saw he had a level of vulnerability that people at his healthy level wouldn't have. Even WB himself wouldn't refute other characters calling him out for being a "weakling", and succumbing to his old age; because he knew himself it was true. 

In fact, WB himself backed up those statements by claiming that too much was expected of him, and that he's "just one man, with one heart" who "can't remain the strongest forever". It makes absolutely no sense to walk out of that with the impression that, truly, he was some infallible monster that would never stop being the strongest until the moment of his death. That conclusion is the complete opposite of what he was trying to say, however you look at it.

That conclusion of yours also contradicts his performance. We literally saw him collapse mid battle unable to defend himself because of a crippling heart attack. There are plenty of characters that would reasonably come out of that with an insurmountable advantage. It's just common sense. Don't see why anyone would see a character with such a weakness, and then assume they can still win against another top tier just because... of a title. 

The Yonko were never even _that_ far apart to begin with, hence their deadlock. Or the fact that WB himself didn't feel he could just avenge Oden against Kaido. We know for a fact it was because he didn't feel he was sufficiently strong enough because it was implied that Ace could get the "ok" to raid Wano if he became powerful enough.

Nothing about Oldbeard being this unstoppable force even through his sickness and age makes sense. It just requires so much to be ignored for this weird absolute faith in his title.

The real kicker is, Garp & Sengoku didn't even refer to him as the WSM after he started having his heart attacks. They still acknowledged he was capable of great strength, but nothing about him being the strongest. That's something you seem to have made up on your own. Sengoku even ordered some grunts to take WB's head at one point.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 14, 2022)

Sengoku after seeing Whitebeard get stabbed by Squardo:



400 injuries on top of taking hits from Admirals and experiencing heart attacks. Dude's endurance is still unmatched.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 4


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## KennethLT (Jan 14, 2022)

Heart attack? Luffy.

I think people underestimate how unfortunately out of shape and Ill white beard was in MF.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> Akainu was clearly just taunting Ace.


That doesn't mean he didn't mean what he said.


Chip Skylark said:


> WB maintained the title for so long that it essentially became his epithet. As everyone else has already said, they wouldn't suddenly strip him of it mid battle after witnessing his decline in strength. That's not how people work. For a real world example, Usain Bolt has lost races in front of an international audience and people still haven't stopped calling him the fastest man in the world even after his retirement because that's what he was known as for so long.


If he were noticeably weaker than anyone else, he would have been stripped of the title. He also would have been defeated and had his territories taken over by another Yonkou. Neither of those things happened.

Regarding the epithet bit, once Luffy becomes the Pirate King no one will call Roger that still. Same with Zoro when he beats Mihawk. He will no longer be the WSS. Titles in OP mean something. Oda has never given a character a title that alluded to being the best or strongest at something and and it wasn't true.


Chip Skylark said:


> A simple title doesn't somehow hold more meaning than his actual performance. We outright saw he had a level of vulnerability that people at his healthy level wouldn't have. Even WB himself wouldn't refute other characters calling him out for being a "weakling", and succumbing to his old age; because he knew himself it was true.


Every character has a level of vulnerability. Akainu literally blasted through his chest and fried his internal organs as a result of a heart attack and he got back up and continued to perform. I mean, we saw what the man did to Akainu with half his head blown off. Obviously he isn't as strong as his prime self. How could he? That still doesn't mean he wasn't true to his title.


Chip Skylark said:


> In fact, WB himself backed up those statements by claiming that too much was expected of him, and that he's "just one man, with one heart" who "can't remain the strongest forever". It makes absolutely no sense to walk out of that with the impression that, truly, he was some infallible monster that would never stop being the strongest until the moment of his death. That conclusion is the complete opposite of what he was trying to say, however you look at it.


Again, considering what he was in his prime, it makes perfect sense. Obviously he got weaker. That doesn't mean he got weak enough for his title to not still be true.


Chip Skylark said:


> That conclusion of yours also contradicts his performance. We literally saw him collapse mid battle unable to defend himself because of a crippling heart attack. There are plenty of characters that would reasonably come out of that with an insurmountable advantage. It's just common sense. Don't see why anyone would see a character with such a weakness, and then assume they can still win against another top tier just because... of a title.


A magma fist through his chest wasn't enough to put him down in that state...or even hinder him enough where he couldn't continue to prove why he was the strongest.


Chip Skylark said:


> The Yonko were never even _that_ far apart to begin with, hence their deadlock. Or the fact that WB himself didn't feel he could just avenge Oden against Kaido. We know for a fact it was because he didn't feel he was sufficiently strong enough because it was implied that Ace could get the "ok" to raid Wano if he became powerful enough.


I agree. Most of my viewpoints on things like commander levels are in respect to the gridlock. The gridlock also supports that WB was not weaker that the other Yonkou. 


Chip Skylark said:


> Nothing about Oldbeard being this unstoppable force even through his sickness and age makes sense. It just requires so much to be ignored for this weird absolute faith in his title.


You can say that, but WB died with that title. Oda's words > yours.


Chip Skylark said:


> The real kicker is, Garp & Sengoku didn't even refer to him as the WSM after he started having his heart attacks. They still acknowledged he was capable of great strength, but nothing about him being the strongest. That's something you seem to have made up on your own. Sengoku even ordered some grunts to take WB's head at one point.


The real kicker is that they didn't have to? They already showed their respect which never waivered even up to his death. It's a war and Sengoku wanted as many forces focused on WB since the start. His commanders did an exceptional job of protecting him for the most part.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Baroxio (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> You can say that, but WB died with that title. Oda's words > yours.


Quick question: Whitebeard 1 second away from death vs Kaido. Is this version of Whitebeard stronger than Current Kaido? This is with all wounds he's received from Akainu, Squardo, etc.

Feel free to assume that the fight takes place in the hyperbolic time chamber where that 1 second is like...a week or some shit.


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Baroxio said:


> Quick question: Whitebeard 1 second away from death vs Kaido. Is this version of Whitebeard stronger than Current Kaido? This is with all wounds he's received from Akainu, Squardo, etc.
> 
> Feel free to assume that the fight takes place in the hyperbolic time chamber where that 1 second is like...a week or some shit.


"Quick question: severely weakened WB vs Kaido. Who's stronger?" 

Dude...what? what are you kids on today?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Baroxio (Jan 14, 2022)

Conxc said:


> "Quick question: severely weakened WB vs Kaido. Who's stronger?"
> 
> Dude...what? what are you kids on today?


That's literally the fucking thread. Nobody believes that Luffy could beat Prime Whitebeard. We're all arguing that he beats a severely weakened Whitebeard, and you are the one saying it's impossible because - according to you -  Whitebeard somehow maintained his strength/title all the way up to his death. 

It seems like the only thing we disagree on is at what level of weakness does Whitebeard have to have before we can agree that Yonkou-clashing Luffy can fight and win against him? I think "not capable of using Haki properly and having heart attacks" is a sufficient weakness for Whitebeard to lose. What more does he need? A hole through the chest? Half his face blown off? At what point _*exactly*_ does Whitebeard's strength take a noticeable enough dip that he goes from victory to defeat?

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Conxc (Jan 14, 2022)

Baroxio said:


> That's literally the fucking thread. Nobody believes that Luffy could beat Prime Whitebeard. We're all arguing that he beats a severely weakened Whitebeard, and you are the one saying it's impossible because - according to you -  Whitebeard somehow maintained his strength/title all the way up to his death.
> 
> It seems like the only thing we disagree on is at what level of weakness does Whitebeard have to have before we can agree that Yonkou-clashing Luffy can fight and win against him? I think "not capable of using Haki properly and having heart attacks" is a sufficient weakness for Whitebeard to lose. What more does he need? A hole through the chest? Half his face blown off? At what point _*exactly*_ does Whitebeard's strength take a noticeable enough dip that he goes from victory to defeat?


Bro... in your post you said WB with all of his MF injuries one second from death vs Kaido. That is not this thread.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Seraphoenix (Jan 15, 2022)

2022 and there are still people who think MF WB was above every top tier. Just stick to eating crayons man.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Jake CENA (Jan 15, 2022)

There's no such thing as severely weakened WB. He's just weak all along due to old age. Stop making fantasy matchups to your benefit.


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## Chaos Hokage (Jan 15, 2022)

It would be one hell of a fight, but I think Luffy would come out as the winner against the weaken Whitebeard. Luffy is showing us now that he can go toe-to-toe against Kaido who is stated to be stronger than a healthy Whitebeard.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kroczilla (Jan 15, 2022)

My two cents:

In this scenario, I legit think this could go either way. Let's start off my saying that old WB was a beast with legendary damage soak. Tbh if this was any other non-yonko/admiral combatant (e.g. Mihawk, Beckman, Kid etc.), I would give him the W with little doubt.

However, I feel that Luffy due to his DF is or will atleast turn out to be highly resistant to the Quake fruit's ability. There's also the fact in this particular matchup, Luffy gets a chances at atleast on solid clean hit, which for someone with his lvl of AdCoc and internal destruction haki would cause serious damage to Old WB. A higher degree of agility + FS also means that while Old WB will definitely land some solid blows, Luffy will land a significantly greater number of those.

Tbh, I can see both sides and frankly in the circumstances, I find myself leaning very slightly towards Luffy mainly due to my feelings on how their DFs match up

Reactions: Like 1


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## tupadre97 (Jan 15, 2022)

Seraphoenix said:


> Luffy wins. WB suffered from heart attacks and inconsistent haki.
> 
> Luffy has the tools to deal with that version of WB. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.


inconsistent according to what? the only thing that's inconsistent is oda's portrayal not whether or not he should have been capable of using it or not when clearly there's no reason he shouldn't have been.


TheOmega said:


> Does MF WB even get the heart attack if Squardo doesn't heartstab him first?


probably seeing how he was already sick and he also got stabbed and shot hundreds of more times so really any of those could trigger his heart attack.


The crazy hacker said:


> Whitebeard had a heart attack though and was stabbed. He beat Akainu while being severely weakened.
> 
> Kaido didnt fight anyone close to admiral level intill Post AdCoC Luffy.


yamato was almost certainly lower admiral level when she fought akainu. hell you could probably say that law was too.


YoungChief said:


> Luffy has a speed and triple haki advantage, all Oldbeard really has for him is quakes but would those even work on the rubber.
> If you think they do then you could see WB pulling a win out of his ass but I just don't


and wb has a power advantage. if luffy gets hit once its over. and he's going to get hit so idk how tf he's supposed to win when even akainu couldn't win after blasting a hole in his chest and blasting half his head off. luffy couldn't even dream of matching that power right now.


Ezekjuninor said:


> If Luffy’s rubber really does counter quakes then he high diffs. If they don’t and with the only 1 heart attack condition, WB should extreme diff.


the gum gum fruit doens't counter shit. wb literally has fucking haki dude.


Canute87 said:


> It all depends on how well Luffy can take one of those quakes.


which he literally can't at all if he's getting off screened by kaido's fucking club of all things.


Dellinger said:


> A full magma fist was stopped by Shanks like it was some kid punch


from a massively weakened akainu that literally just got his ass beat by a half dead wb but ok.


Chaos Hokage said:


> It would be one hell of a fight, but I think Luffy would come out as the winner against the weaken Whitebeard. Luffy is showing us now that he can go toe-to-toe against Kaido* who is stated to be stronger than a healthy Whitebeard.*


when tf was this ever stated? man what?


Kroczilla said:


> My two cents:
> 
> In this scenario, I legit think this could go either way. Let's start off my saying that old WB was a beast with legendary damage soak. Tbh if this was any other non-yonko/admiral combatant (e.g. Mihawk, Beckman, Kid etc.), I would give him the W with little doubt.
> 
> ...


luffy has no resistance against haki users tf are you talking about? this shit aint pre timeskip no more bruh.

also none of luffy's advanced ryo or conquerors is any stronger than whitebeard's quakes or akainu's magma. there's no way he's doing more damage to wb than akainu it just aint happening.


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## TheOmega (Jan 15, 2022)

tupadre97 said:


> inconsistent according to what? the only thing that's inconsistent is oda's portrayal not whether or not he should have been capable of using it or not when clearly there's no reason he shouldn't have been.
> 
> probably seeing how he was already sick and he also got stabbed and shot hundreds of more times so really any of those could trigger his heart attack.
> 
> ...


He literally gets heart stabbed before he even steps off his ship and enters the war. We have no idea how many of those injuries would have been avoided/sustained had he not neem heartstabbed prior


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## tupadre97 (Jan 15, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> He literally gets heart stabbed before he even steps off his ship and enters the war. We have no idea how many of those injuries would have been avoided/sustained had he not neem heartstabbed prior


wb literally couldn't even dodge squado's attack even before he was stabbed so why do you think he'd avoid their attacks?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Conxc (Jan 15, 2022)

This thread. All hope is lost.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## TheOmega (Jan 15, 2022)

tupadre97 said:


> wb literally couldn't even dodge squado's attack even before he was stabbed so why do you think he'd avoid their attacks?


Cuz Squardo was an ally.

I'm not saying he's getting hit or dodging all of them but clearly the heart stab compromised his ability


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## YoungChief (Jan 15, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> Cuz Squardo was an ally.
> 
> I'm not saying he's getting hit or dodging all of them but clearly the heart stab compromised his ability


According to Marco that ally shit shouldn't have mattered though and said WB should have been able to dodge.


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## Baroxio (Jan 15, 2022)

Bare in mind that Whitebeard was able to counter assassination attempts from Logia users in his sleep, prior to his disease fucking him up.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Commanderbilli (Jan 15, 2022)

This is the era where they will call WB vs sanji midiff. Yall have no shame

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rp4lyf (Jan 15, 2022)

tupadre97 said:


> inconsistent according to what? the only thing that's inconsistent is oda's portrayal not whether or not he should have been capable of using it or not when clearly there's no reason he shouldn't have been.
> 
> probably seeing how he was already sick and he also got stabbed and shot hundreds of more times so really any of those could trigger his heart attack.
> 
> ...


Its happening, and his power is attack power is much higher than Akainu's.

This is also why Kaido is goign down in 2 hours with Luffy having done 90% of the damage.

Meanwhile, Aokiji and Akainu ahve sucj sucky attack power that it took 10 days for the battle to be decided.

The internal destruciton made Luffy attacks much more lethal.

He already had much more force in his attacks than the Admirals.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Jan 15, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Sengoku after seeing Whitebeard get stabbed by Squardo:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 injuries on top of taking hits from Admirals and experiencing heart attacks. Dude's endurance is still unmatched.


What's more telling is that even when he died, Oda made a point to tell us what a monster he was during MF, if everyone and their mother doing so before that wasn't enough. No matter what the OL says, according to the author he won't be remembered as an old man, he won't be remembered as the sick man who got stabbed, _he will forever be remembered as *a monster for the way he destroyed his enemies that day.*_


*Spoiler*: __ 









That is after seeing his decline and everything he went through. Sengoku, the man who thought he was still the WSM after Squardo's betrayal was himself surprised at how much power WB had left. The point being made here is of someone who was exceptional in spite of his injuries, hence the hundreds of wounds the narrator counts in the end.

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Chip Skylark (Jan 15, 2022)

Conxc said:


> That doesn't mean he didn't mean what he said.


He considered WB an eternal loser, not a weakling. That wouldn't somehow invalidate his comments about WB succumbing to his old age. Beyond obvious that this is a reach.


Conxc said:


> If he were noticeably weaker than anyone else, he would have been stripped of the title. He also would have been defeated and had his territories taken over by another Yonkou. Neither of those things happened.
> 
> Regarding the epithet bit, once Luffy becomes the Pirate King no one will call Roger that still. Same with Zoro when he beats Mihawk. He will no longer be the WSS. Titles in OP mean something. Oda has never given a character a title that alluded to being the best or strongest at something and and it wasn't true.


Come on...

To counter you're now using an example that predates even the war instead of focusing on what we actually know, and addressing the arguments being repeated to you that articulate the decline in health he demonstrated during the actual battle. You've either lost the plot, or realized that you've no arguments to actually refute what's being said. In the latter case would be much better to actually admit that instead of stubbornly fishing for points that have no basis or relevance to the discussion.

Again, in case it wasn't clear, nobody is arguing that his decline in health was significant and becoming noticed prior to the war. The point is that it became obvious that he suffered a significant decline in health during the battle, and that he wouldn't suddenly be stripped of his title mid war just because people noticed that. You didn't even come close to actually focusing on that with this point of yours. Pretty sure I even corrected you about this already. This is ridiculous.


Conxc said:


> Every character has a level of vulnerability. Akainu literally blasted through his chest and fried his internal organs as a result of a heart attack and he got back up and continued to perform. I mean, we saw what the man did to Akainu with half his head blown off. Obviously he isn't as strong as his prime self. How could he? That still doesn't mean he wasn't true to his title.


He didn't perform well. Everyone and their mom were capable of getting their digs in on WB. One moment of rage induced strength doesn't somehow supersede all the various examples where he was too crippled to either use his haki, or defend himself against fodder mid battle.


Conxc said:


> Again, considering what he was in his prime, it makes perfect sense. Obviously he got weaker. That doesn't mean he got weak enough for his title to not still be true.


He didn't simply say he got weaker, he outright said that he couldn't remain the strongest forever... You've gotta be acting deliberately obtuse here, or something. 



Conxc said:


> I agree. Most of my viewpoints on things like commander levels are in respect to the gridlock. The gridlock also supports that WB was not weaker that the other Yonkou.


When he was healthy, Conx... The gridlock wouldn't suggest that it's reasonable to argue that WB could still maintain his lead despite a significant decline in health when even you agree that they were never far apart to begin with. It's time to hang it up when you can't even maintain consistency within your own arguments. Either you agree that they were close enough in strength for the gridlock to exist, or you think Oldbeard was so far above everyone that even an obvious severe decline in health wouldn't stop him from beating anyone in the series. The two arguments can't coexist.


Conxc said:


> The real kicker is that they didn't have to? They already showed their respect which never waivered even up to his death. It's a war and Sengoku wanted as many forces focused on WB since the start. His commanders did an exceptional job of protecting him for the most part.


You can't say their respect never wavered if they never commented on his status afterwards...

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 15, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Sengoku after seeing Whitebeard get stabbed by Squardo:
> 
> 
> 
> 400 injuries on top of taking hits from Admirals and experiencing heart attacks. Dude's endurance is still unmatched.


Sengoku's words don't mean much, he still did not know the guy was sick af.
400 injuries coming from fodders. A cocoa punch is way above even a million slices from a fodder.
His endurance was good, that's all.


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## Tenma (Jan 15, 2022)

I'm sure the Admiralgang members using the 'WB 2-shot Akainu' argument here don't _actually_ believe Oldbeard neg-diffs Akainu....right?

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Kylo Ren (Jan 15, 2022)

Who will win? Current Luffy or any current yonko? But the said yonko is old and sick and couldnt use basic haki properly let alone the advance version.


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## Tenma (Jan 15, 2022)

for the record, I think Akainu became stronger than WB after the latter popped his heart attack

I thought that was the common opinion here besides the most ardent Yonko devotees


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## Bobybobster (Jan 15, 2022)

I'm going with luffy, simply because luffy will look even better in the coming chapters. Currently luffy is going toe to toe with a hybrid kaido/powered up version without even g4, and he will undoubtedly have a new form on top of that as well.

The heart attack isn't the end of the world, wb already dealt with a more lethal fighter in that state, but everything else like his age, failing basic haki and no adv haki is too much.  It's still a tough fight because of what he did to akainu + this will also be a wb who's not going to be holding back from the start. Also, I don't really get the rubber vs quake argument, given luffy's past performance vs shockwave type attacks + the fact that wb can use haki with his quakes.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 15, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Sengoku's words don't mean much, he still did not know the guy was sick af.


Again, Whitebeard being sick doesn't mean he wasn't still the World's Strongest. I posted that as an example of WB's portrayal and Oda's intent.


Duhul10 said:


> 400 injuries coming from fodders. A cocoa punch is way above even a million slices from a fodder.


You think Luffy can get run through the torso by 50x swords and shrug it off?


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## Duhul10 (Jan 15, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Again, Whitebeard being sick doesn't mean he wasn't still the World's Strongest. I posted that as an example of WB's portrayal and Oda's intent.
> 
> You think Luffy can get run through the torso by 50x swords and shrug it off?


Again, WB being sick af and people not being aware of it means exactly that.

If Luffy's body was WB size, yes and more. A ragnarruku to the head is far more devastating than some small swords on a 6M height body. Moreover, if cocoa can indeed be used defensively, those swords wouldn't even pierce luffy.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 15, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> Again, WB being sick af and people not being aware of it means exactly that.


How so? Build that bridge for me between "he's weaker than he used to be" and "he's weaker than other emperors"


Duhul10 said:


> If Luffy's body was WB size, yes and more. A ragnarruku to the head is far more devastating than some small swords on a 6M height body.


How many blades are appropriate for Luffy's size? I'm sure he'd still be rolling smoothly after the first sword through the chest but what about 5? 10? Let alone 260 cuts.

An injury is an injury. It's so silly to me that anyone can read Whitebeards death and think Oda intended for all of those accumulated wounds to count for less than 1 attack from a Top Tier.


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## Duhul10 (Jan 15, 2022)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> How so? Build that bridge for me between "he's weaker than he used to be" and "he's weaker than other emperors"
> 
> How many blades are appropriate for Luffy's size? I'm sure he'd still be rolling smoothly after the first sword through the chest but what about 5? 10? Let alone 260 cuts.
> 
> An injury is an injury. It's so silly to me that anyone can read Whitebeards death and think Oda intended for all of those accumulated wounds to count for less than 1 attack from a Top Tier.


The fodder attacks, yes they can only count for a higher end attack of a top tier. Wb also suffered a couple of other attacks from top tiers and the flurry from BB crew, which is why I've said he had good endurance feats. However, that doesn't compare to having to take cocoa punishment from luffy for hours, as in this scenario.

As for the bridge, it's simple. If you get subjectivism aside, feats and character statements ( of those who have witnessed his decrease and/or know him very well ) will tell you exactly that. If you can tell me the guy who'd get heart attacks mid fight, would be capable of defeating another yonko ( who would of course get free shots due to the heart attacks ) all this with a straight face, then there is no way to get past your favouritism.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Jan 15, 2022)

This will be my last post in this thread, but I want to make some points clear.

First it's weird that people discard some opinions like Sengoku's, yet are willing to accept others like Killer's word as absolute fact. Sengoku is the leader of the organization tasked with keeping the Yonkou in check. You're delusional if you think he has no idea on what's going on with the Yonkou themselves, especially when we've seen CP0 agents infiltrated all across the NW. It's even more bizarre when Shanks got on the Moby Dick and was not surprised the slightest to see WB hooked to machines.

There were plenty of statements Oda gave us throughout, during and after MF that placed _old_ WB as the top dog still. The first and most blatant one is Garp calling him the ruler of the seas. The man was introduced as the strongest while in IVs. To Buggy he was the strongest pirate at the moment. According to Ace's novel, his momentum was greater than ever. Then we have bits like this which people simply ignore and choose to go by their headcanon:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Even when WB's strength is put in question during MF, it's quickly adressed by Sengoku. Sengoku knows exactly how strong WB was in his prime. He also just saw how much weaker he'd gotten. There was no doubt in his mind still on who was the strongest. As a matter of fact, he underestimated WB if anything. He never thought WB could exert that much power with those wounds:


*Spoiler*: __ 









Has Luffy ever showed anything par with this? To split an island and deal significant damage to an Admiral with a single attack, despite missing half his head?

Finally even in death, for Oda, WB will be remembered as a monster for what he did in MF. He had the man start out nerfed (if you don't think a gaping wound to the chest doesn't trigger heart problems, you need to think again). He had him basically take on an entire army and made a point of the injuries WB sustained. Yet his supposed weakness was not mentioned once. It's almost as if the author is trying to convey something...Strange how people post-MF like Doffy and Chinjao refer to him as the ruler, huh? The old man we saw in MF was still the ruler.

The sickness weakening him was a plot point that played its part and was adressed rather quickly. Literally no one in the manga makes a big deal out of it. It's only the OL getting fixated on details as always and ignoring tons of hints or outright direct statements by the author.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 7


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## Turrin (Jan 15, 2022)

MF WB is stronger then Kaidou, so Luffy beating Kaidou doesn’t mean he can beat WB. It’s stated that when he arrived at MF, he was the strongest Pirate still:

Sengoku also considered him the strongest even after seeing his decay at MF:

WB also thought he was the strongest even towards the end of MF, he just thought he couldn’t maintain that much longer:

As he says I can’t remain the strongest forever which implies he is currently the strongest due to the definition of remain: 

Not to mention WB is called the WSM by the same narrator that called Kaidou a man as well:

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 7 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Conxc (Jan 15, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> He considered WB an eternal loser, not a weakling. That wouldn't somehow invalidate his comments about WB succumbing to his old age. Beyond obvious that this is a reach.


I said that he didn't think much of WB to begin with. He could've flat out called him a clown in that situation and it's still in line with my point. Sakazuki did not respect WB. Him calling him a loser would match up with him being in the *minority *of characters calling him a weakling because of that lack of respect. I'll save you the timer and just call this point a reach since that's all you've got outside of shit that still doesn't equate to WB's title not being true.


Chip Skylark said:


> Come on...
> 
> To counter you're now using an example that predates even the war instead of focusing on what we actually know, and addressing the arguments being repeated to you that articulate the decline in health he demonstrated during the actual battle. You've either lost the plot, or realized that you've no arguments to actually refute what's being said. In the latter case would be much better to actually admit that instead of stubbornly fishing for points that have no basis or relevance to the discussion.


I've already told you multiple times that even during the war, during the hear attacks, during the Haki issues, *no one but a minority of people called him weak or questioned his position.* During the war, you literally had his title reinforced by the characters there and the characters that knew him the best even through the Prime years. You are choosing to ignore that.


Chip Skylark said:


> Again, in case it wasn't clear, nobody is arguing that his decline in health was significant and becoming noticed prior to the war. The point is that it became obvious that he suffered a significant decline in health during the battle, and that he wouldn't suddenly be stripped of his title mid war just because people noticed that. You didn't even come close to actually focusing on that with this point of yours. Pretty sure I even corrected you about this already. This is ridiculous.


Then correct that part of your thought process that is blocking out that he repeatedly reinforced his title and that respect was never lost for him by the majority of the forces there despite the injuries. That should be the next step for you. I simply disagree with you and you haven't done a good job at convincing me otherwise. You keep using things that literally did not matter in the manga.


Chip Skylark said:


> He didn't perform well. Everyone and their mom were capable of getting their digs in on WB. One moment of rage induced strength doesn't somehow supersede all the various examples where he was too crippled to either use his haki, or defend himself against fodder mid battle.


Oda begs to differ and told us this through several characters and in WB's death chapter. You want to refute the manga, take that up with Oda.


Chip Skylark said:


> He didn't simply say he got weaker, he outright said that he couldn't remain the strongest forever... You've gotta be acting deliberately obtuse here, or something.


Being obtuse in a post about someone else being obtuse. Obviously he couldn't remain the strongest. Not only was he preprairing to die, but it's simply a very true statement. How is him saying that he can't *remain* the strongest forever evidence that he was no longer the strongest? Doesn't *remain *mean that he still was?


Chip Skylark said:


> When he was healthy, Conx... The gridlock wouldn't suggest that it's reasonable to argue that WB could still maintain his lead despite a significant decline in health when even you agree that they were never far apart to begin with. It's time to hang it up when you can't even maintain consistency within your own arguments. Either you agree that they were close enough in strength for the gridlock to exist, or you think Oldbeard was so far above everyone that even an obvious severe decline in health wouldn't stop him from beating anyone in the series. The two arguments can't coexist.
> 
> You can't say their respect never wavered if they never commented on his status afterwards...


The distance between them obviously factors in his illness because it's apart of who he is. Like what? Do you think there's a WB sickness mode or what, bud? Why would you ever assume that his sickness doesn't play a role in his level?

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheOmega (Jan 15, 2022)

the bias I see here is crazy

One side says WB wasn't nerfed another says he was the strongest Yonko even WITH the nerfs da fuck mayne

Folks please remember that narrative, narrator and character statements are all different things and not all are "word of god" or fully reliable

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 15, 2022)

According to the Yonkoset,WB was simultaneously the strongest Yonko ever during MF + Akainu and later on Kizaru stopping his bisento quake using only 1 leg aren't that good feats because WB was sick and weaker than the other Yonkos 

But Shanks stopping Akainu's punch is a great feat that proves Shanks >> Akainu without a doubt, of course   

Oldbeard>Shanks>Akainu/Kizaru>Oldbeard?

Reactions: Funny 7 | Disagree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 15, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> According to the Yonkoset,WB was simultaneously the strongest Yonko ever during MF + Akainu and later on Kizaru stopping his bisento quake using only 1 leg aren't that good feats because WB was sick and weaker than the other Yonkos
> 
> But Shanks stopping Akainu's punch is a great feat that proves Shanks >> Akainu without a doubt, of course
> 
> Oldbeard>Shanks>Akainu/Kizaru>Oldbeard?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Brian (Jan 15, 2022)

Turrin said:


> MF WB is stronger then Kaidou, so Luffy beating Kaidou doesn’t mean he can beat WB. It’s stated that when he arrived at MF, he was the strongest Pirate still:
> 
> Sengoku also considered him the strongest even after seeing his decay at MF:
> 
> ...



brought out the dictionary 

anyway i'll bet on luffy


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## Corax (Jan 15, 2022)

Poll is surprising to be fair. This isn't even the end of Luffy vs Kaido. Obviously Luffy will show 1-2 strong finishers,and he already is >old WB?By this logic end of Wano Luffy should be almost prime WB lvl. if not above.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Silver (Jan 15, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> According to the Yonkoset,WB was simultaneously the strongest Yonko ever during MF + Akainu and later on Kizaru stopping his bisento quake using only 1 leg aren't that good feats because WB was sick and weaker than the other Yonkos
> 
> But Shanks stopping Akainu's punch is a great feat that proves Shanks >> Akainu without a doubt, of course
> 
> Oldbeard>Shanks>Akainu/Kizaru>Oldbeard?


Luffy > WB > Mihawk > Luffy

Reactions: Funny 12


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## Typhon (Jan 15, 2022)

Whitebeard was introduced as the WSM hooked up to an IV while being treated by nurses. He was already sick and deteriorating. Man was still WSM at Marineford

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 4 | Optimistic 1


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## Conxc (Jan 15, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Whitebeard was introduced as the WSM hooked up to an IV while being treated by nurses. He was already sick and deteriorating. Man was still WSM at Marineford


And there would literally be no reason to introduce WB as WSM, let alone in that condition, if he wasn't actually the WSM. In his Prime he had plenty hype just from being able to stalemate Roger. Why would Oda introduce him with that title if it wasn't true?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 15, 2022)

Corax said:


> Poll is surprising to be fair. This isn't even the end of Luffy vs Kaido. Obviously Luffy will show 1-2 strong finishers,and he already is >old WB?By this logic end of Wano Luffy should be almost prime WB lvl. if not above.


We will never see the end of MF WB > current Luffy, not even after the manga has ended.


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## Turrin (Jan 15, 2022)

Brian said:


> brought out the dictionary
> 
> anyway i'll bet on luffy


Your conclusion is exactly why it was necessary.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## featherine augustus (Jan 15, 2022)

--Luffy's next big fight is BB and we will see luffy taking a bunch of gura attacks and survive


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jan 15, 2022)

TheOmega said:


> One side says WB wasn't nerfed


Who made that claim?


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## gunchar (Jan 16, 2022)

ClannadFan said:


> In this scenario WB will only get 1 heart attack that Luffy can capitalize on.


Oh come on, that pretty much gifts Luffy the undeserved win.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## gunchar (Jan 16, 2022)

Dark Knight said:


> I think Luffy wins but why does it feel so blasphemous to say that?


Cause Lufft shouldn't already be at this lvl and giving WB a heart attack is just unfair, but here we are.


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## TheOmega (Jan 16, 2022)

Stop the nonsense. You been around long enough to know better than that  



Ayy lmao said:


> According to the Yonkoset,WB was simultaneously the strongest Yonko ever during MF + Akainu and later on Kizaru stopping his bisento quake using only 1 leg aren't that good feats because WB was sick and weaker than the other Yonkos
> 
> But Shanks stopping Akainu's punch is a great feat that proves Shanks >> Akainu without a doubt, of course
> 
> Oldbeard>Shanks>Akainu/Kizaru>Oldbeard?



Exhibit A



TheOmega said:


> Idk bout downplay but even as the weakest member of the Yonko he was 2 piecin the "strongest admiral" while catching heart attacks midfight so





TheOmega said:


> Kizaru is ALREADY > Akainu anyways lol
> 
> And no nobody thinks Akainu is FV except AdmiraL gang lol
> 
> ...





TheOmega said:


> Have we been reading the same manga?
> 
> The Yonko are comfortably above the Admirals.
> 
> ...





TheOmega said:


> Old Age
> Sickness
> Heartstabs
> Midfight Heart Attacks
> ...



Yonkoset > sAdmiraLgang

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## VileNotice (Jan 16, 2022)

Conxc said:


> And there would literally be no reason to introduce WB as WSM, let alone in that condition, if he wasn't actually the WSM. In his Prime he had plenty hype just from being able to stalemate Roger. Why would Oda introduce him with that title if it wasn't true?


I mean wasn't it WB's WSM title that solidified Roger's strength in the first place?


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## Baroxio (Jan 16, 2022)

Actually, I'm pretty sure the reason why Whitebeard held onto his title for so long, is purely because his Devil Fruit is OP. According to Sengoku, it literally holds the power to _destroy the world._ Now, whether sick Whitebeard could muster that kind of power is completely unknown. Given the prevalence of Devil Fruit users using Awakening while on their very last legs, it's entirely possible that he could unleash something strong enough to kill everyone at Marineford, whether friend or foe. And even if he'd still get clapped in a hardcore fight, as long as he maintains his fruit, he's basically always the strongest. 

That said, I take statements like "has the power to destroy the world" with a grain of fucking salt. There's no way to ever prove that it could live up to such statements, because...the world is clearly still there. Unless Sengoku meant something akin to "destroy civilization" or some such, but even then that's some bullshit because the entire strategy of stopping Whitebeard relied on setting up shields that could deflect his quakes. Shields that would be part of the world. So obviously the statement is false on it's head. 

...I have no idea why I wrote this. I probably shouldn't be awake at 4 am.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Amol (Jan 16, 2022)

Whitebeard losing this poll is shameful for OL.  

I am disappointed in you all.  

WB quakes Luffy's rubber ass.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Lawliet (Jan 16, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how Luffy fans just go straight off the deep end.
> WB sends him to get his straw hat signed by Roger.


Explain to me how does MF do that? 

It's Canon that Kaidou > MF WB. 
It's speculated that Kaidou is even > prime WB but lets not even go there and remain at Kaidou > MF WB. 

Luffy is dancing tango with kaidou. I'm sure he would make MF WB break dance

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Explain to me how does MF do that?
> 
> It's Canon that Kaidou > MF WB.
> It's speculated that Kaidou is even > prime WB but lets not even go there and remain at Kaidou > MF WB.
> ...


My issue with the whole "Luffy is tangoing with Kaido" thing is we are pretending that Kaido hasn't already fought 15 other guys and burned through a 3 pack of Luffy character addition Magnums...

So yeah, if you completely ignore al of that happening, then I guess I see how you'd come to that conclusion.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> It's Canon that Kaidou > MF WB.
> It's speculated that Kaidou is even > prime WB

Reactions: Funny 7 | Dislike 1


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## Lawliet (Jan 16, 2022)

Conxc said:


> My issue with the whole "Luffy is tangoing with Kaido" thing is we are pretending that Kaido hasn't already fought 15 other guys and burned through a 3 pack of Luffy character addition Magnums...
> 
> So yeah, if you completely ignore al of that happening, then I guess I see how you'd come to that conclusion.


Obviously Kaidou fought a lot of people but let's be honest.. If kaidou and luffy fought fresh now, they'd be performing the same way.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 1 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Canute87 (Jan 16, 2022)

Typhon said:


> Whitebeard was introduced as the WSM hooked up to an IV while being treated by nurses. He was already sick and deteriorating. Man was still WSM at Marineford


The problem is that the world's strongest man couldn't even do a COC blast.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Obviously Kaidou fought a lot of people but let's be honest.. If kaidou and luffy fought fresh now, they'd be performing the same way.


No, hence why Kaido had to go through this gauntlet in the first place. It's obvious that he isn't as strong as Kaido. Both fresh, I have Kaido high diff though atp.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> If kaidou and luffy fought fresh now, they'd be performing the same way.


Finally we can agree on something

Reactions: Like 1


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## YoungChief (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Obviously Kaidou fought a lot of people but let's be honest.. If kaidou and luffy fought fresh now, they'd be performing the same way.


I really think so too tbh, as an example of how far Luffy has grown in just this one night, think about how he lost the headbutt exchange to Ulti in her base form, to having an equal headbutt clash with Kaido in hybrid form its nuts


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## featherine augustus (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Obviously Kaidou fought a lot of people but let's be honest.. If kaidou and luffy fought fresh now, they'd be performing the same way.


Kaido's forte is dura and healing ; every attack chips away kaido's HP so current luffy has to land way more attacks if he fought fresh kaido equivalent to what other characters did to kaido and law's injection shot is powerful enough to bring people to their knees who have human dura + Zoro's asura attack too

Also fighting for so long without any rest + lifting an island also consumes his stamina where luffy recently ate


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## Mihawk (Jan 16, 2022)

People bringing up MF WB being weak shit but conveniently forgetting Luffy needing 3 tries and a feast in between for recovery just to match fists with a Kaido who was lifting the entire island and fighting a 14 man gauntlet 

Fuck Luffy

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

telling you dude, luffy wank is otherworldly. On a completely different level.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Jan 16, 2022)

If Kaido and Luffy fought fresh they would be performing the same way. The only difference is that Kaido would end up winning. Luffy would still be matching him blow for blow. Rn saying Fresh Kaido wins high diff would be fair, but Luffy hasn't used Gear 4th yet, so it's likely that End of Wano Luffy gives Kaido Extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Germa 66 (Jan 16, 2022)

Whitebeard’s best bet is to drop his morals and give his biggest quake punch that’ll destroy Luffy and the island with him


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

Atp it's probably better for him to not use G4. This version of luffy just might be his best form. not having to worry about a time limit is huge. maybe g4 hits harder, but he cant sustain it for long. he loses once it runs out and he exhausts his Haki.


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## Lawliet (Jan 16, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> Whitebeard’s best bet is to drop his morals and give his biggest quake punch that’ll destroy Luffy and the island with him


Then he realizes vibration doesn't affect rubber and his mustache falls from the shock

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Then he realizes vibration doesn't affect rubber and his mustache falls from the shock


Unless Whitebeards quakes (which have been shown to function exactly like shockwaves) aren't actually shockwaves, this isn't the case.


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## Germa 66 (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Then he realizes vibration doesn't affect rubber and his mustache falls from the shock


Pretending Whitebeard can’t coat his attacks in Haki are we?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Lawliet (Jan 16, 2022)

Ayy lmao said:


> Unless Whitebeards quakes (which have been shown to function exactly like shockwaves) aren't actually shockwaves, this isn't the case.


Wait for it. Teach will realize he can only hurt Luffy if he uses the yami yami


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 16, 2022)

Lawliet said:


> Wait for it. Teach will realize he can only hurt Luffy if he uses the yami yami


he has haki so nah.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## deltaniner (Jan 16, 2022)

People have to headcanon a DF interaction that's never been shown or hinted at to argue Luffy wins.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Germa 66 (Jan 16, 2022)

deltaniner said:


> People have to headcanon a DF interaction that's never been shown or hinted at to argue Luffy wins.


For real. Like explosions are shockwaves and we see how Luffy handled those:




Luffy gets quaked. As a matter of fact the first scan may actually be a pure shockwave lmao


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 16, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> For real. Like explosions are shockwaves and we see how Luffy handled those:


The supposedly immune-to-vibrations-man getting knocked out after being hit by 1 single shockwave



Also didn't take it too well here


Or here

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Mihawk (Jan 16, 2022)

Germa 66 said:


> For real. Like explosions are shockwaves and we see how Luffy handled those:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ayy lmao said:


> The supposedly immune-to-vibrations-man getting knocked out after being hit by 1 single shockwave
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They probably think Luffy's rubber will just help him bounce off the quakes like nothing lmfao


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> They probably think Luffy's rubber will just help him bounce off the quakes like nothing lmfao


Awakened G5 Luffy bounces off vibrations,strength, AdvCoC and reality itself

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Baroxio (Jan 16, 2022)

Given how Marco's shockwave also hurt Queen, I think shockwaves in general are just a means of bypassing any and all conventional durability.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 4


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## Germa 66 (Jan 16, 2022)

Case closed ^^^


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

fine work gentlemen. sometimes you just have to jump a mf

Reactions: Funny 3


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 16, 2022)

Luffy doesn't need earthquake protection. He wins.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 16, 2022)

yeah reject dials have long deconfirmed that Luffy would be immune to Gura

he is only immune to lightning, thats it


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## Inferno Jewls (Jan 16, 2022)

Luffy extreme diff due to his speed


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

gonna drop this here also since it isnt obvious to some that WB was decisively stronger than the other Yonkou...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Jan 16, 2022)

Conxc said:


> gonna drop this here also since it isnt obvious *to some* that WB was decisively stronger than the other Yonkou...


to most

and obvious is an ambitious word to use.


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

Duhul10 said:


> to most
> 
> and obvious is an ambitious word to use.


Doesn't get more obvious than being stated in plain text. Maybe it was just "ambitious" of Oda to think his fanbase could read.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## TheNirou (Jan 16, 2022)

Start of MF Oldbeard is above Yonkos, even if Luffy has the advantage of being rubber, Oldbeard can coat his haki to his bisento to deal with Luffy. 

Oldbeard is also a pure monster when it comes to pain tolerance and Luffy is far below Oldbeard in pain tolerance.

Oldbeard takes it with extreme diff overall imo.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## arv993 (Jan 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> People bringing up MF WB being weak shit but conveniently forgetting Luffy needing 3 tries and a feast in between for recovery just to match fists with a Kaido who was lifting the entire island and fighting a 14 man gauntlet
> 
> Fuck Luffy


Ok so early rooftop luffy is the same luffy as now? 

Also what’s more damaging tbs’ and ragnaraks or the scabbards and zoro’s attacks.

Kaido also had a drink break between the scabbards and RT5. 

Don’t let hate compromise your integrity, luffy is a beginner yonko rn it’s what it is. He is pretty much going to be an extreme diff low battle for kaido if they were fresh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Jan 16, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Ok so early rooftop luffy is the same luffy as now?
> 
> Also what’s more damaging tbs’ and ragnaraks or the scabbards and zoro’s attacks.
> 
> ...


Luffy isn’t the same but let’s not act like Kaido hasn’t been put through the ringer. Like I already said he had time to recover and heal after getting KOed by TB and Ragnarok.

Pls don’t question my integrity.

If luffy is a beginner Yonko, then MF WB wins end of story


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## Conxc (Jan 16, 2022)

guys are going to pretend like luffy vs kaido was a fair fight. it was inevitable


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## Zero (Jan 16, 2022)

Seeing Luffy win against any version of Whitebeard in a poll is so amazing to see.

Luffy has come so FAR.

But still, I think Whitebeard wins this matchup.


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## arv993 (Jan 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Luffy isn’t the same but let’s not act like Kaido hasn’t been put through the ringer. Like I already said he had time to recover and heal after getting KOed by TB and Ragnarok.
> 
> Pls don’t question my integrity.
> 
> If luffy is a beginner Yonko, then MF WB wins end of story


Luffy doesn't auto-heal from eating meat. He's still taken significant damage from kaido before powering up. Oda shows luffy all roughed up when he fights kaido again.

And we have Yamato also saying that luffy was either on his final stand or something close to that. We have previous precedents to see that luffy needs meat plus sleep to recover fully. 

Scabbards plus zoro scar and luffy’s hits isn't much more damaging than apoo damage + ulti damage + kaido’s tb’s luffy had to eat.

Yeah, kaido would win extreme diff against current luffy, he would win high diff against heart attack prone and battered wb.

So luffy has the edge. This match is the most nerfed version of wb vs current luffy.

Can def question it since you never fully include the context in your posts.


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## Mihawk (Jan 16, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Luffy doesn't auto-heal from eating meat. He's still taken significant damage from kaido before powering up. Oda shows luffy all roughed up when he fights kaido again.


Says who? Just because you said it doesn’t make a difference so it doesn’t? Luffy had far more time to recover than Kaido did between fights, while the latter kept on going. There’s literally no way you can equate the damage both of them took. Like what metric would you even use to measure that and come to such a conclusion?


arv993 said:


> And we have Yamato also saying that luffy was either on his final stand or something close to that. We have previous precedents to see that luffy needs meat plus sleep to recover fully.


We also have statements by Zoro and sanji saying he’d win the fight (when he was on the roof and told them to leave it to him) then look what happened.

This is Luffy we’re talking about. The guy who went from being on the verge of death against crocodile to making a semi full recovery by drinking a barrel of water. Someone who has one of the most astounding recovery rates in the series.


arv993 said:


> Scabbards plus zoro scar and luffy’s hits isn't much more damaging than apoo damage + ulti damage + kaido’s tb’s luffy had to eat.


You forgot Law’s Injection Shot, Punk Gibson, Yamato, and Killer’s Sonic Scythes. Talk about context..

Ulti and Apoo lol. The Scabbards combined dish out more than they did, and Kidd took Apoo’ shots too. If Luffy is as strong as you’re saying he is, his hits on Kaido should be significant when coated with CoC and CoA, especially since Kaido took them all head on as opposed to Luffy who was avoiding them for a majority of their encounters.


arv993 said:


> Yeah, kaido would win extreme diff against current luffy, he would win high diff against heart attack prone and battered wb.


Based on what? I can just as easily say that a fully healthy Kaido beats a fully healthy Luffy without extreme diff just cus lol.


arv993 said:


> So luffy has the edge. This match is the most nerfed version of wb vs current luffy.


If you say so. Current Luffy has no portrayal on the same level as the “most nerfed version” of WB who still had the physical strength and offensive firepower of the WSM. You can bring up Luffy clashing evenly with Kaido but I can say that Luffy doesn’t have the feat of KOing Akainu to the point where he would “high diff” MF WB lmao. It’s all baseless speculation.



arv993 said:


> Can def question it since you never fully include the context in your posts.


Great projection, since you have a habit of exaggerating and deflecting your own bias against the Admirals for whatever reason. It’s funny, and there’s honestly no point arguing with you bc it’s the same cycle every time.

Agree to disagree.


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## arv993 (Jan 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Says who? Just because you said it doesn’t make a difference so it doesn’t? Luffy had far more time to recover than Kaido did between fights, while the latter kept on going. There’s literally no way you can equate the damage both of them took. Like what metric would you even use to measure that and come to such a conclusion?
> 
> We also have statements by Zoro and sanji saying he’d win the fight (when he was on the roof and told them to leave it to him) then look what happened.
> 
> ...


What is far more time??? Like 10-15 minutes lol

Kaido had a sake break after scabbards. It's not like scabbard damage was negated entirely.

Metric? Luffy wasn't fresh when he fought kaido again.


Luffy took clubs to the head and blasts from apoo and even finishers like Ragnarok. Kaido also took a lot from luffy, zoro and scabbards but kaido isn't insanely ahead

I mentioned yamato, punk Gibson? All I recall was a sumo move by kid. Injection shot was legit, I forgot that. Killer was negligible damage but sure let's count it. I forgot luffy took big mom’s hits as well including that joke fireball. Oh let's add momo’s little bite too if we wanna be fair to kaido haha. But luffy isn't far off in damage taken. He took so many unnecessary hits because he was a noob and learning on the go. You do know this is a fresh luffy with acoc not a noob that is learning acoc right? 

Luffy is matching a hybrid kaido blow for blow in base. He won't need to overuse his G4. WB can hit luffy a couple times but luffy will get free heart attack hits, he has better speed, better haki and has better coo or FS. Its not baseless speculation it's all proven feats. WB has higher AP but luffy isn't far behind in that category. 

Luffy is making kaido the guy with the hardest skin bleed profusely and made him acknowledge luffy. He can output a similar or more damage to any other character, his AP should not be questioned.


He didn't recover against croco, he still had holes where the water was leaking from he was tired but he got the W.

Lol you literally said fuck luffy, how can one take you seriously. This is an extreme diff fight regardless where luffy has a good shot to win so my position isn't blasphemous. And you mentioned nothing of the damage luffy took, so I called you out for it.


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## arv993 (Jan 16, 2022)

Does a pretty good job of summarizing all the damage luffy took since the raid started.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jan 16, 2022)

arv993 said:


> What is far more time??? Like 10-15 minutes lol


And how many minutes did it take Akainu to recover from getting quaked? Luffy took a TB and a Ragnarok in their 2nd/3rd fight. 


arv993 said:


> Kaido had a sake break after scabbards.
> 
> Metric? Luffy wasn't fresh when he fought kaido again.


Proof sake replenishes Kaido’s health and heals damage?


arv993 said:


> Luffy took clubs to the head and blasts from apoo and even finishers like Ragnarok. Kaido also took a lot from luffy, zoro and scabbards but kaido isn't insanely ahead


Sure.


arv993 said:


> I mentioned yamato, punk Gibson? All I recall was a sumo move by kid. Injection shot was legit, I forgot that. Killer was negligible damage but sure let's count it. I forgot luffy took big mom’s hits as well including that joke fireball. Oh let's add momo’s little bite too if we wanna be fair to kaido haha. But luffy isn't far off in damage taken. He took so many unnecessary hits because he was a noob and learning on the go. You do know this is a fresh luffy with acoc not a noob that is learning acoc right?


Noted, but this is a fresh MF WB at the start of the War, in a 1v1. Not the sick and dying old man who lost half his head and barely had any vitality left. You guys need to start putting some respect on his name. That’s all I’m saying.


arv993 said:


> Luffy is matching a hybrid kaido blow for blow in base. He won't need to overuse his G4. WB can hit luffy a couple times but luffy will get free heart attack hits, he has better speed, better haki and has better coo or FS. Its not baseless speculation it's all proven feats. WB has higher AP but luffy isn't far behind in that category.


Those free heart attack hits didn’t prevent Akainu from getting quaked. WB’s heart attacks didn’t stop him from reacting to and clashing with the world’s strongest military powers, so to imply he can’t keep up with Luffy would be unfair. WB’s overall combat ability is just as good as any of the Yonko.


arv993 said:


> Luffy is making kaido the guy with the hardest skin bleed profusely and made him acknowledge luffy. He can output a similar or more damage to any other character, his AP should not be questioned.


No one is questioning his AP. What I’m questioning is why yall insist on taking a shit on WB and thinking he can’t replicate his AP?

I genuinely think it’s asinine that we’ve gotten to the point where it is WB who has to prove that he can live up to current Luffy when the latter has yet to take down a top tier or claim official Yonko status.


arv993 said:


> He didn't recover against croco, he still had holes where the water was leaking from he was tired but he got the W.


He went from being on the verge of death to being back in solodfighting shape.


arv993 said:


> Lol you literally said fuck luffy, how can one take you seriously. This is an extreme diff fight regardless where luffy has a good shot to win so my position isn't blasphemous. And you mentioned nothing of the damage luffy took, so I called you out for it.


It was a joke post obviously. If it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously why did you bother to respond bro? Lol.

As for Luffy’s chances of winning. They aren’t 0. But understand MF WB being in a 1v1 is totally different than being held down in an entire War where he’s being attacked from all directions. If MF WB still had what it took to beat Akainu in that state as you all cite, then he can beat Luffy.


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## arv993 (Jan 16, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> And how many minutes did it t
> 
> Proof sake replenishes Kaido’s health and heals damage?
> 
> ...



Sake gives him more deadly haki, and a break allows him to heal. Look at his torso after the scabbards fight, it has a slight bruise near the scar and besides that he has no major injuries and isn't even scuffed up.

It is not a fresh WB. Luffy gets one free heart attack hit. Sure he won't be battered from the start but he will get one free acoc hit to the chest making him battered and weakened.


Luffy regained energy and still had holes. He got a partial restore on hp at best. Here we see he is low on stamina and then regains his stamina but is still very scuffed up. 

Even against doffy he needed to sleep, eat and be bandaged to be close to 100%. Recent examples show that his HP does not get fully restored by meat only energy levels get restored.

Akainu has bad coo feats, luffy does not. He won't be able to land easy complete hits like that against FS luffy. And luffy is able to coat himself to some degree with acoc to lighten Ragnarok as well. So we see that luffy has increased durability as well.


So after the heart attack a non IC LUFFY will get a massive free hit to wb. He will then have the advantage and can win extreme diff.

Kaido won't even need extreme.diff against this wb. If kaido gets a free heart attack hit, he would high diff wb.


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## Captain Quincy (Jan 16, 2022)

arv993 said:


> Recent examples show that his HP does not get fully restored by meat only energy levels get restored.


They're not video game characters lol. Energy and health are tied, you can't be hurt and at 100% at the same time that's contradicting lol.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jan 16, 2022)

This version of Whitebeard cannot even use his Haoshoku and Observation haki properly...and not to mention his heart attacks...

His only advantage in this match up is the sheer power of gura gura.

Now look at Luffy,
Observation Haki: Luffy >>>> Sick WB's 
Haoshoku coating: Luffy >>>>>>>>>>>>>Sick WB who can't even do a basic CoC blast that even marineford Luffy could do 
Armament Haki : Hard to tell, but given that Sick WB has yet to show any internal destruction haki, I give Luffy the edge as well

Luffy literally blitzes WB and damages him with his CoC attacks. The moment WB gets a heartattack Luffy deals hefty amounts of damage on him.

The only problem here is if WB is fast enough to land Quake attacks on Luffy.. this can be tricky because Akainu seemed to suggest that he has FS from the way he evaded Marco and Vista, and WB was capable of landing clean blows on him.

Reactions: Like 5 | Tier Specialist 1


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## featherine augustus (Jan 16, 2022)

Thing is it is going to be hard for WB to land attacks on luffy directly who has adv coo and is very nimble

Reactions: Like 1


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## arv993 (Jan 17, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> They're not video game characters lol. Energy and health are tied, you can't be hurt and at 100% at the same time that's contradicting lol.


So why is luffy still scuffed up. Why did luffy need to rest for days after the doffy fight??

Energy replenishment doesn't fix holes in your body even with croc we could see luffy leaking.

Meat isn't immediate and instant HP recovery. He still needs a lot of rest to become 100% again or anywhere close to it.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jan 17, 2022)

I’m confuse rn, I was checking the Current Luffy vs Mihawk thread and mihawk is winning there even tho it’s the same guy that admitted inferiority to MF WB, the same guy that’s losing the poll

Reactions: Funny 4


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## OG sama (Jan 17, 2022)

convict said:


> Holy shit Luffy is winning the poll
> 
> Lets wait at least for him to get his inevitable awakening power up first.
> 
> I am reading around this week that he beats WB and he also solos the strawhats after a few exchanges with Kaido both of whom aren't remotely going all out. Luffy is truly the most overrated character there is. Inevitably when he finally does actually become the strongest individual character in the series I guarantee arguments that he solos the rest of the verse will start cropping up


Y’all Zoro fanboys I swear

Let Zoro do the shit Luffy is doing right now against Kaido and watch this overrated talk not even exist.

Luffy ain’t even using G4 and he’s whooping hybrid Kaidos ass, so basically he’s holding back his best shit along with no awakening and he’s giving Kaido one of the best fights even he has stated he has ever had.

It’s right their in the manga for all the haters to see and yet Luffy is overrated lol.

He might not be pound for pound as powerful as MF WB but he excels in some areas that would give WB a lot of trouble, not to mention we have no idea if Quakes even work on rubber.

Matchups matter and this could be a nightmare matchup for WB, but yes let’s allow the hate to get to our brains and just ignore the matchup itself.

Damn there’s no help for y’all on here man.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Funny 1


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## featherine augustus (Jan 17, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Y’all Zoro fanboys I swear
> 
> Let Zoro do the shit Luffy is doing right now against Kaido and watch this overrated talk not even exist.
> 
> ...


Use g4 and he runs of gas too fast lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OG sama (Jan 17, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Use g4 and he runs of gas too fast lol


Possibly 

He’s getting something else more OP anyway most likely.


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## featherine augustus (Jan 17, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Possibly
> 
> He’s getting something else more OP anyway most likely.


G5 imo or maybe awakening

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Jan 17, 2022)

featherine augustus said:


> Use g4 and he runs of gas too fast lol


Luffy will still need to use it if Kaidou has a stronger form to be able to keep up, which should also drain Kaidou faster.


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## Beast (Jan 17, 2022)

OG sama said:


> Y’all Zoro fanboys I swear
> 
> Let Zoro do the shit Luffy is doing right now against Kaido and watch this overrated talk not even exist.
> 
> ...


Wait… you think Luffy actually beats the WSM and pirate WB?
I thought it was just Duhuls crazy ass of wanking Kaidou/ BM only.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Captain Quincy (Jan 17, 2022)

arv993 said:


> So why is luffy still scuffed up. Why did luffy need to rest for days after the doffy fight??
> 
> Energy replenishment doesn't fix holes in your body even with croc we could see luffy leaking.
> 
> Meat isn't immediate and instant HP recovery. He still needs a lot of rest to become 100% again or anywhere close to it.


It just means he's not 100% 

Energy and health are tied, you can't randomly separate them lol.


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Jan 17, 2022)

Luffy trample.
Put WB with his meds and medical devices like on his ship so he has a chance.


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## OG sama (Jan 17, 2022)

Beast said:


> Wait… you think Luffy actually beats the WSM and pirate WB?
> I thought it was just Duhuls crazy ass of wanking Kaidou/ BM only.


Go back and reread smh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## arv993 (Jan 17, 2022)

Captain Quincy said:


> It just means he's not 100%
> 
> Energy and health are tied, you can't randomly separate them lol.


They have a correlation sure but he is nowhere near 100%. We have seen countless examples where he needs to sleep, medical treatment and meat to be 100%.


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