# EMS Madara vs Danzo



## RedChidori (Dec 21, 2013)

The Legendary God of The Uchiha Clan, Uchiha Madara VS The Sharingan Thief, Danzo! Who wins here? How will Danzo fare against the REAL Madara? Can he manage to win? You decide!

Location: Sasuke vs Ei
Knowledge: They have _zero_ intel on each other. They are familiar with each other in terms of reputation.
State of Mind: IC
Starting Distance: 13 meters away
Restrictions: Kotoamatsukami, Perfect Susano'o, Tengai Shinsei, Mokuton, and Rinnegan.
Additional Info: Madara is living, but is not blind. He also doesn't have Senjutsu chakra, he is wearing his armor though (isn't really important lol). Danzo starts out with his arm unsealed. Madara starts off using 3 Tomoe Sharingan. Both are 100% healthy and have a full chakra reserve. Both start the battle using Taijutsu and Ninja Tools. 

So who wins this battle? Madara or Danzo? Please give a legitimate reason why either combatant wins, loses, or stalemates. EDIT: Oh crap I almost forgot, Madara can't summon Kurama!

READY? FIGHT   !!!!!!!!!


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## Blazing Archer (Dec 21, 2013)

So Madara has kyuubi...


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## RedChidori (Dec 21, 2013)

Blazing Archer said:


> So Madara has kyuubi...



LOL No. Just restricted that like a couple of seconds ago.


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## richard lewis (Dec 21, 2013)

So this is basically base madara vs danzo? I'm gunna give this to danzo, madara will probably force him to use a few eye's with izangi but danzo should eventually take this.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara no difficulty.


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## Blazing Archer (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara doesn't even need to use MS or even 3tm Sharingan against Danzo.
Low level Katon jutsu like Gōkakyū was enough for Danzo's top level Futon jutsu(Baku's inhaling tech)

Madara plays with Danzo for some time and then fodderizes him by killing with a regular kunai.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara destroys him with absolutely no trouble at all.


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## Atlantic Storm (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara can probably trick Danzō with genjutsu like Sasuke did to throw off his timing with _Izanagi_, to be honest and camp out with Susano'o whenever else and pressure with _yasaka no magatama_. In regards to Baku and fūton jutsu, I doubt they'd be much trouble, since Madara's katons are even stronger than Sasuke's.


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## Rocky (Dec 21, 2013)

MS Sasuke beat Danzou. EMS Madara, even without Perfect Susano'o or The Kyuubi, is still basically an all around better version of that Sasuke.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Dec 21, 2013)

Sasuke wasn't still very experienced with MS in that fight. And he wasted alot of chakra before he even knew what Izanagi was.

Madara can spend as much chakra as he likes. Danzo can't win a battle of attrition against him.
Madara activates Susano'o and keeps pressuring Danzo. Izanagi runs out and he dies.


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## Bonly (Dec 21, 2013)

EMS Madara should win more times then not. With Susanoo he can basically tank all of Danzo's Futons and with his skills he can force Danzo's Izanagi to run out. Danzo is just outclassed.


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## RedChidori (Dec 21, 2013)

Bonly said:


> EMS Madara should win more times then not. With Susanoo he can basically tank all of Danzo's Futons and with his skills he can force Danzo's Izanagi to run out. Danzo is just outclassed.



Damn right! +reps


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## Master Sephiroth (Dec 21, 2013)

How many Katons does it take for Danzo to die? Madara has the stamina to pull it off and win without using Susano'o once. Alive Madara is also too fast for Danzo.


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## egressmadara (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara crushes all of his eyes


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## Lord Aizen (Dec 21, 2013)

Danzo gets fodderized by the king his fire style destroys Danzo repeatedly till he runs out of izanagi and dies. I believe he could beat Danzo with just clones and swords


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## Jagger (Dec 21, 2013)

Madara is more skillful and faster than the Sasuke that beat Danzo.

Madara overwhelms Danzo in every single area.


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## LeafShinobi (Dec 29, 2013)

Madara can beat him.


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## DaVizWiz (Dec 29, 2013)

Zero intel equates to Madara killing Danzo and him appearing behind for a swift counter kill. 

Unlike against Sasuke he won't underestimate Madara and blow his position before killing Sasuke by whispering in his ear. 

Obito failed to recognize this off-course variant of Izanagi immediately. Nothing suggests Madara would recognize it before being blind sided and stabbed in the head.


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## Veracity (Dec 29, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Zero intel equates to Madara killing Danzo and him appearing behind for a swift counter kill.
> 
> Unlike against Sasuke he won't underestimate Madara and blow his position before killing Sasuke by whispering in his ear.
> 
> Obito failed to recognize this off-course variant of Izanagi immediately. Nothing suggests Madara would recognize it before being blind sided and stabbed in the head.



You aren't blindsiding EMS pre cog. Madara could react to fucking V2 Raikage. Danzo isn't doing shit.


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## DaVizWiz (Dec 29, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> You aren't blindsiding EMS pre cog. Madara could react to fucking V2 Raikage. Danzo isn't doing shit.


Pre-cog has absolutely nothing to do with attacking someone from an area that they are not looking after seemingly being killed. 

Danzo could blindside anyone with Izanagi regardless of speed differential. They think he's fucking dead. He can spawn anywhere on the map with this illusion.


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## Shinryu (Dec 31, 2013)

Madara can react to BM Naruto he blitzes and oneshots Danzo.


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## ARGUS (Dec 31, 2013)

Madara still fodderises him


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## Thunder (Dec 31, 2013)

If you want to survive against Danzō a strong defense is usually required, and Madara's got that in Susanō. I don't see how Madara would run into trouble during this match since he can play the same strategy as Sasuke, but more effectively.


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## ARGUS (Jan 1, 2014)

The battle between MS Sasuke and Danzo was. Battle of stamina 
And sasuke was disadvantaged due to the major setbacks of using MS 
Madara on the other hand has 3 times more chakra and has no setbacks at all due to him having EMS 
I dnt know what makes u think that Danzo will survive 
Madara utter roflstomps him


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## Thunder (Jan 1, 2014)

xxHKCDxx said:


> The battle between MS Sasuke and Danzo was. Battle of stamina
> And sasuke was disadvantaged due to the major setbacks of using MS
> Madara on the other hand has 3 times more chakra and has no setbacks at all due to him having EMS
> I dnt know what makes u think that Danzo will survive
> Madara utter roflstomps him



If this is a response to me, I never said such a thing.


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## ARGUS (Jan 1, 2014)

Thunder said:


> If this is a response to me, I never said such a thing.



I didn't quote you so no it's not a response to you 
I jus wanted to elaborate before someone thinks I'm a fanboy


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## Shinryu (Jan 1, 2014)

Unlike Sauce Madara has legit reality bending mindfuck tier Tsukoyomi to put Danzo in a coma.


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## Jagger (Jan 1, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Zero intel equates to Madara killing Danzo and him appearing behind for a swift counter kill.
> 
> Unlike against Sasuke he won't underestimate Madara and blow his position before killing Sasuke by whispering in his ear.
> 
> Obito failed to recognize this off-course variant of Izanagi immediately. Nothing suggests Madara would recognize it before being blind sided and stabbed in the head.


That's assuming Madara is stupid enough to let himself being hit in the head like it's nothing. How do you know he won't underestimate Uchiha Madara? After all, he was the man that had both Uchiha's and Senju's powers, that should give anyone a boost in confidence.

Moving on from that speculation, Madara is a skillful ninja. He was able to sense Hashirama's presence despite he was thousand of miles away from the battlefield, so finding one shinobi behind him isn't that difficult either. 

Experienced shinobi develop a "_sixth sense_" as shown when Sasuke sended Mei's attack coming behind him despite he's no sensor. Madara lived all his life in a battlefield, so why can't he do the same?


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 1, 2014)

Anyone who can hold stage three Susano'o or higher for ten minutes can rape Danzo. Love the arguments regarding Madara having more skill than the canonical Uchiha that beat him though. It's cute, but Madara is all about raw power last I checked.


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## Jagger (Jan 1, 2014)

What Uchiha beat Madara, btw?


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## Coppur (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm pretty sure Danzo gets obliterated. Madara is essentially a superior version of EMS Sasuke, which is a far superior version of MS Sasuke.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 1, 2014)

Coppur said:


> I'm pretty sure Danzo gets obliterated. Madara is essentially a superior version of EMS Sasuke, which is a far superior version of MS Sasuke.



A superior what? Outside of PS, EMS Madara would get raped by EMS Sasuke. How about we do a little research to go with that avatar and sig. I'm quite sure Sasuke has more than Susano'o going for him in regards to everything sharingan.


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## Rocky (Jan 1, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> A superior what? Outside of PS, EMS Madara would get raped by EMS Sasuke. How about we do a little research to go with that avatar and sig. I'm quite sure Sasuke has more than Susano'o going for him in regards to everything sharingan.




Assuming both The Rinnegan & Kyuubi are also restricted, than I suppose Sasuke could win. Problem is, Sauce cannot damage Madara's Stage 3 Susano'o without his own Perfect Susano'o, at least not with his current feats.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 1, 2014)

lol...
Madara will definitely figure out that Danzo is using Izanagi just as Sasuke did.
Danzo will have to check his sharingan arm to keep track of his usable eye stock.
Madara will definitely pick up on that just as Sasuke did.
How will Danzo even compete against an Uchiha who has prior knowledge of Izanagi and a likely way to counter Izanagi right at the beginning of it's execution?
Either that happens or Susanoo rapes Danzo.
The End.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Assuming both The Rinnegan & Kyuubi are also restricted, than I suppose Sasuke could win. Problem is, Sauce cannot damage Madara's Stage 3 Susano'o without his own Perfect Susano'o, at least not with his current feats.


LMAO, what? I'm pretty sure we're referring to an EMS Madara. Note that Kurama isn't considered part of EMS Madara's power, thus...

And Sauce cannot damage Madara's what? Ever heard of Kirin? How about Sasuke's MOKUTON piercing arrows? First and foremost, Madara's stage three has been broken by pure PUNCHING/KICKING power on numerous occasions. And Sasuke's Susano'o has the best STRENGTH  feats among the lot. It's rape outside of perfect Susano'o, as you're comparing 10+ YEARS worth of development to WELL NOTHING.


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## Rocky (Jan 1, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Note that Kurama isn't considered part of EMS Madara's power, thus...




It's his summon, so yeah, it is.



> And Sauce cannot damage Madara's what? Ever heard of Kirin? How about Sasuke's MOKUTON piercing arrows?




Kirin didn't even kill dead-man-walking Itachi. Not only is the Jutsu difficult to prepare, but it isn't a reliable counter to Susano'o. Itachi demonstrated that well enough when he _used Susano'o_ to survive the damn thing.

As for the arrows, I sincerely hope you're kidding. "Mokuton piercing" isn't remarkably impressive considering Hashirama wasn't the caster of the wood. Danzo didn't have complete mastery over his stolen power, and his variant has no durability feats other than....getting pierced by Sasuke's arrow. 



> First and foremost, Madara's stage three has been broken by pure PUNCHING/KICKING power on numerous occasions. And Sasuke's Susano'o has the best STRENGTH  feats among the lot. It's rape outside of perfect Susano'o, as you're comparing 10+ YEARS worth of development to WELL NOTHING.




Madara's Stage 3 was _damaged_ by Ei's weighted punch, once. Sasuke's Susano'o doesn't have greater strength feats; cutting a tree that even Tobirama's Suitons could slice up doesn't cut it  in my opinion.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> It's his summon, so yeah, it is.




Sadly we both know such isn't true. Kurama is never factored into his power, as that would undermine how Naruto is using it. Kurama isn't a typical summon, he needs to be controlled in order for one to utilize him.(And Sasuke or any Uchiha has the potential to control him)



> Kirin didn't even kill dead-man-walking Itachi. Not only is the Jutsu difficult to prepare, but it isn't a reliable counter to Susano'o. Itachi demonstrated that well enough when he _used Susano'o_ to survive the damn thing.


Rookie mistake, as your previous argument was "Sauce cannot damage Madara's Stage 3 Susano'o"

And Sasuke certainly DID DAMAGE ITACH'S SUSANO'O. Now let's do a little bit of comparison shall we. Madara is GETTING RAPED. Your mistake is believing Madara's Susano'o IS REMOTELY CONSISTENT AGAINST BIG OR SMALL ATTACKS. Iphr0z3nI disagrees.




> As for the arrows, I sincerely hope you're kidding. "Mokuton piercing" isn't remarkably impressive considering Hashirama wasn't the caster of the wood. Danzo didn't have complete mastery over his stolen power, and his variant has no durability feats other than....getting pierced by Sasuke's arrow.


I hope you're kidding, as this counter argument is only going to get you.....
You mean to tell me this wasn't impressive. Considering A CONCENTRATED PUNCH WAS ABLE TOO 

And Danzo not having complete mastery of MOKUTON ONLY MEANT HE COULDN'T FULLY CONTROL IT. And you can't validate your argument with anything other than your opinion.(Which won't cut it here and now)
And Sasuke's WEAPONS HAVE DONE BETTER so there's no need for you to even try. SOLID CONCRETE. Sasuke's arrows have showcased the ability to pierce solid concrete.

But of course Iphr0z3nI isn't done yet. Observe exhibit A, Mr. Rocky sir. That's right Tsunade was able to PIERCE Madara's Susano'o with one of his swords. You don't think Sasuke's arrows, which CARRY MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more velocity can do the same? I do so hope you were kidding, if you think you're going win a discussion of THESE UCHIHA'S with the professor. 



> Madara's Stage 3 was _damaged_ by Ei's weighted punch, once. Sasuke's Susano'o doesn't have greater strength feats; cutting a tree that even Tobirama's Suitons could slice up doesn't cut it  in my opinion.


See above mate.

Ei's weighted punch doesn't HAVE THE PIERCING POWER OF SASUKE'S SUSANO'O ARROW. Naruto was able to block A's punch. Naruto wouldn't have been able to block one of Sasuke's arrows in a similar fashion. 

Please use a bit more common sense, as ONE DOESN'T NEED MUCH STRENGTH WHEN ONE IS WORKING WITH SOMETHING POINTY and moving at a very, very fast rate. Put it this way, since you seem to be having trouble with this simple concept. It would take a lot of strength and EVEN GREATER SPEED to pierce a human body with a ball, opposed to a sword or spear.


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## Coppur (Jan 1, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> *A superior what?* Outside of PS, EMS Madara would get raped by EMS Sasuke. How about we do a little research to go with that avatar and sig. I'm quite sure Sasuke has more than Susano'o going for him in regards to everything sharingan.


I am, of course, talking about hair , Madara locks of pure Uchiha beats Sasuke boring straight hair by miles. Well that, and superior Katons, better stamina, a more-powerful Susano'o, and possibly better genjutsu.


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## Rocky (Jan 1, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Sadly we both know such isn't true. Kurama is never factored into his power, as that would undermine how Naruto is using it. Kurama isn't a typical summon, he needs to be controlled in order for one to utilize him.(And Sasuke or any Uchiha has the potential to control him)




If Sasuke could actually summon Kurama, I would count it his power. As it stands though, Madara has shown on panel the ability to summon the creature and use it in battle, even combining its abilities with is own. 




> Rookie mistake, as your previous argument was "Sauce cannot damage Madara's Stage 3 Susano'o"
> 
> And Sasuke certainly DID DAMAGE ITACH'S SUSANO'O. Now let's do a little bit of comparison shall we. Madara is GETTING RAPED. Your mistake is believing Madara's Susano'o IS REMOTELY CONSISTENT AGAINST BIG OR SMALL ATTACKS. Iphr0z3nI disagrees.




Indeed. I should have worded it better. Kirin should certainly damage Susano'o, but killing Madara is another story, which is Sasuke's overall goal. Don't nit pick semantics. Also, stop posting scans of Madara's _Ribcage_ being battered around. I never said Sasuke would have a problem with that.




> And Danzo not having complete mastery of MOKUTON ONLY MEANT HE COULDN'T FULLY CONTROL IT. And you can't validate your argument with anything other than your opinion.(Which won't cut it here and now)
> And Sasuke's WEAPONS HAVE DONE BETTER so there's no need for you to even try. SOLID CONCRETE. Sasuke's arrows have showcased the ability to pierce solid concrete.




The Raikage went though the entire concrete ceiling by himself, without Onoki's help. What on earth is your point?



> But of course Iphr0z3nI isn't done yet. Observe exhibit A, Mr. Rocky sir. That's right Tsunade was able to PIERCE Madara's Susano'o with one of his swords. You don't think Sasuke's arrows, which CARRY MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more velocity can do the same? I do so hope you were kidding, if you think you're going win a discussion of THESE UCHIHA'S with the professor.




Bro. Really? No one is selling that Tsunade swings it faster than Susano'o shoots it, but that sword didn't go through Susano'o and strike Madara did it? Nor is that Madara's _*Stage 3*_ Susano'o. It's again his ribcage, not the giant legged version that swatted around the 5 Kage.



> Ei's weighted punch doesn't HAVE THE PIERCING POWER OF SASUKE'S SUSANO'O ARROW. Naruto was able to block A's punch. Naruto wouldn't have been able to block one of Sasuke's arrows in a similar fashion.




The Raikage moves much faster than Sasuke arrow does, so their penetrative force very well may be comparable. 

And by the way, Naruto never guarded against any punch that was able to damage Susano'o. Ei's normal strikes couldn't even harm Madara's arms. 

Now, I want you to prove to me that Naruto couldn't block one of Sasuke arrows anyway. 




> Please use a bit more common sense, as ONE DOESN'T NEED MUCH STRENGTH WHEN ONE IS WORKING WITH SOMETHING POINTY and moving at a very, very fast rate. Put it this way, since you seem to be having trouble with this simple concept. It would take a lot of strength and EVEN GREATER SPEED to pierce a human body with a ball, opposed to a sword or spear.




Do you understand your own concept? The tip of the arrow has a smaller surface area than Ei's fist, but Ei struck his target at a much greater speed than the arrow. It's why a , despite not being particularly sharp, will blow your torso off, while a throwing knife may not even kill you.


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## KyuubiFan (Jan 1, 2014)

Madara wins with no difficulities. He's a sensor type so he wouldn't get caught by a surprise attack, has enormous AoE Katon attacks (the bane of Danzo's strongest ninjutsus) and the strongest base Susano'o we have seen plus a monstrously huge stamina.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 1, 2014)

Rocky said:


> If Sasuke could actually summon Kurama, I would count it his power. As it stands though, Madara has shown on panel the ability to summon the creature and use it in battle, even combining its abilities with is own.


Summoning only brings the "boys" to the yard. Kurama still needs to be charmed, and any sharingan wielder is free to flirt with her. Thus Kurama isn't automatically an asset in this argument, as Sasuke is just as capable of gaining control over him
(And Sasuke can also combine his abilities with it) 



> Indeed. I should have worded it better. Kirin should certainly damage Susano'o, but killing Madara is another story, which is Sasuke's overall goal. Don't nit pick semantics. Also, stop posting scans of Madara's _Ribcage_ being battered around. I never said Sasuke would have a problem with that.


Rocky, do you know how many times I've been in the types of dealings? Thus I know the difference between proper wording and trying to change one's argument. Suffice to say the Itachi example is a bad one, as Kirin in his SITUATION was something Sasuke put all his eggs into. In this case however, Kirin won't be a last resort. Thus A SITUATION LIKE THIS will likely lead too....

If Killing Madara is the overall goal, then removing Susano'o is one of the more important steps too...

And stop posting picks of Madara's ribcage being battered around? You do know how partial transformation works right?  Suffice to say THERE ARE DIFFERENT levels to the ribcage of Susano'o. One can easily take the ribcage from the more advance Susano'o as implied by Madara's showcasing.(Note the ribcage to that Susano'o is the same size as 



> The Raikage went though the entire concrete ceiling by himself, without Onoki's help. What on earth is your point?


And Susano'o punched through several walls.

But again you misunderstand the significance of the feat. An arrow, was able to penetrate DEEP, DEEP reinforced concrete.(That showcases how much power is backing it) Do you believe you'd have much luck getting an arrow to penetrate reinforced concrete? Considering a bullet from a standard firearm would have trouble doing that, I don't think you fully understand the significance of the feat.



> Bro. Really? No one is selling that Tsunade swings it faster than Susano'o shoots it, but that sword didn't go through Susano'o and strike Madara did it? Nor is that Madara's _*Stage 3*_ Susano'o. It's again his ribcage, not the giant legged version that swatted around the 5 Kage.


Bro. Really? It's not about Tsunade swinging a sword faster than Susano'o can shoot an arrow. It's about the power of TSUNADE'S THRUST, THIS IS CALLED A THRUST, being no where near the velocity and thus power, in this case, of Sasuke's arrows. 

Suffice to say. Tsunade, using something that can be substituted for Sasuke's arrows, was able to penetrate Madara's Susano'o wielding a fraction of the momentum in which being shot from an arrow would provide. It's like comparing a person throwing a spear to a bow gun, using the later would not only provide more momentum but the power and distance would amplify as a result.

And again, the ribcage in which Madara utilized THERE was taken from his higher states. And not that this Susano'o is equivalent to this Susano'o from Sasuke without legs, right? Last I checked that Susano'o's arrows were also implied to have increased in power to to size.

Word to the wise. If you're going to discuss stages of Susano'o, please be aware that partial transformation does exist. 



> The Raikage moves much faster than Sasuke arrow does, so their penetrative force very well may be comparable.


And the Raikage needs to move faster than Sasuke arrows to PRODUCE piercing damage with a blunt object.

I believe I arbitrated, "Put it this way, since you seem to be having trouble with this simple concept. *It would take a lot of strength and EVEN GREATER SPEED to pierce a human body with a ball, opposed to a sword or spear.*"

But there penetrative power isn't comparable, as Raikage only has speed going for it. Sasuke's ARROW HAS SHAPE AND MASS. Note that Force = Mass x acceleration, mate. So even if the force behind their attacks is comparable. The fact that Sasuke's attack focuses all of that force on a MUCH SMALLER area would equate to his attack having more penetrating power. Let's start applying a bit more common sense Mr. Rocky.



> And by the way, Naruto never guarded against any punch that was able to damage Susano'o. Ei's normal strikes couldn't even harm Madara's arms.


But Ei's normal strike have showcased to be able to damage the most basic manifestion of Susano'o.



> Now, I want you to prove to me that Naruto couldn't block one of Sasuke arrows anyway.


Common sense isn't certainly your strong point, now is it? Do really think Naruto is capable of blocking something that does this doing this. Do you need me to explain how chidori or hell spear works? Do you need me to tell how an arrow works?

If Naruto tried to block one of Sasuke's arrows like this, he'd have no arms left. 



> Do you understand your own concept? *The tip of the arrow has a smaller surface area than Ei's fist*, but Ei struck his target at a much greater speed than the arrow. It's why a , despite not being particularly sharp, will blow your torso off, while a throwing knife may not even kill you.


Exactly mate.

But speed isn't the ONLY THING THAT CONTRIBUTES TO FORCE. Mass, and Sasuke's arrow is certainly heavier than A's fist, right? And A's fist wouldn't be equivalent to a bullet as it's speed isn't that greater that much greater than Sasuke's arrows. A's fist wouldn't be equivalent to a bullet as IT'S CERTAINLY, MUCH LARGER. Note that A's punched many people he's never PRODUCED THIS. The closes thing he's gotten to that is this.

Sasuke's arrows > A's fist in penetration, PERIOD.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 1, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> A superior what? Outside of PS, EMS Madara would get raped by EMS Sasuke. How about we do a little research to go with that avatar and sig. I'm quite sure Sasuke has more than Susano'o going for him in regards to everything sharingan.



PS *is* the EMS jutsu! So what you're saying is outside EMS Madara's EMS jutsu, he'd be raped by EMS Sasuke who can use his EMS jutsu. 

Sasuke's got more for him going than just EMS. Then again so does Madara with his fan, the monster sized Katon jutsu and let us not forget his chakra absorption ability.

Therefore it isn't wrong to say Madara beats Danzo ITT because he is a superior version of Sasuke. Madara, _himself_, considers Sasuke to be far beneath him... this was Madara commenting when he has no SM and no eyes.


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## Shinryu (Jan 2, 2014)

*Madara wins*
Sharingan precog trolls anyone who isnt faster than him in Taijutsu

His brute strength oneshots Danzo

He blitzes Danzo

His giant katons oneshot Danzo

He trolls Danzo with his mirror fan that can reflect BM Naruto's impact

*Danzo wins*
Four gate seal captures Madara


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## RedChidori (Jan 2, 2014)

Shinryu said:


> *Madara wins*
> Sharingan precog trolls anyone who isnt faster than him in Taijutsu
> 
> His brute strength oneshots Danzo
> ...



*Madara wins*
Madara Evades Four Gates Seal and watches Danzo go boom


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jan 2, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> PS *is* the EMS jutsu! So what you're saying is outside EMS Madara's EMS jutsu, he'd be raped by EMS Sasuke who can use his EMS jutsu.


And if you read the openings argument you'd know it was restricted in this discussion. 

And if you read the full conversation you'd notice that our argument was started by



> I'm pretty sure Danzo gets obliterated. *Madara is essentially a superior version of EMS Sasuke*, which is a far superior version of MS Sasuke.


Which arbitrates that EMS Madara > Outside of PERFECT SUSANO'O, which is restricted by the opening. I simply argued against that claim.

So what I'm suggesting is that EMS Madara without PS, would get raped by Sasuke without PS for which Mr. Rocky disagreed with. Hence the current discussion.



> Sasuke's got more for him going than just EMS. Then again so does Madara with his fan, the monster sized Katon jutsu and let us not forget his chakra absorption ability.


LMAO, what......(Madara's chakara absorption is the preda path)

Madara's monster size katons don't compare to ENTON, period. 
Madara's fan doesn't have anything special going for it on the offensive end, and Sasuke still wields his Kusanagi in which he is able to channel raiton chakara through. 

Sasuke has snake summons, hawk summons, Kirin, A PLETHORA of weapon feats, etc. etc. 
More importantly Sasuke has had showcasing which present him as stronger than his rival, without resorting to stealing his power.




> Therefore it isn't wrong to say Madara beats Danzo ITT because he is a superior version of Sasuke. Madara, _himself_, considers Sasuke to be far beneath him... this was Madara commenting when he has no SM and no eyes.


A superior version of Sasuke? I think that's what you're trying to validate, right? This variation of Madara under these conditions isn't superior to current Sasuke, period. Shall we compare respective resume's? 

And did you seriously just utilized Madara quote to validate your opinion? Let's see, I believe Sasuke got the better of that Madara. And let's not pretend we don't have a statement that alludes to Sasuke having more potential then ANY MADARA in tow.

I don't know what's funnier. The fact that you believe a EMS Madara without PS is a better variation of current Sasuke.(When the LATER IS PACKING MORE HEAT LITERALLY) Or that you believe Madara's statement actually has some weight over Oro's, WHO ACTUALLY DOES HIS HOMEWORK.


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## Shinryu (Jan 2, 2014)

Lol I forgot Madara coudl Tsukoyomi him into submission as well.


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## Jagger (Jan 2, 2014)

Danzo's suicide seal didn't even work on a tired and injured Sasuke and you think Madara can't escape it? 

Also, Madara has never shown the use of Tsukuyomi.


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## Lurko (Jan 3, 2014)

Madara rapes especially Danzo do hard it's not funny,  Mads is a sensor ninja unlike Sasuke  and has much more Intel, experience, and stamina than a ms Sasuke who had been fighting all day, Koto isn't here in this match for Danzo he's screwed literally.


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## BroKage (Jan 3, 2014)

How is this different from MS Sasuke vs. no-Koto Danzo? EMS Madara is basically the former with better stats, even with those restrictions. And despite having no intel on Danzo, he still knows exactly what Izanagi is, meaning he even has a knowledge advantage over MS Sasuke.

So obviously EMS Madara wins since MS Sasuke won in the manga. With EMS, Madara can just camp in Susanoo all day and wear down Danzo's Izanagi time with huge katons and Yasaka's Magatama. In the end he can trick Danzo with an EMS genjutsu more powerful than the one MS Sasuke used.

Danzo was saving chakra for Tobi in the manga but we have no idea how well he'd fight if he wasn't so we can't count that, meaning he's no better than the version that lost to MS Sasuke and as such stands zero chance against EMS Madara. This honestly looks like a wank/spite thread of sorts.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 3, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> And if you read the openings argument you'd know it was restricted in this discussion.
> 
> And if you read the full conversation you'd notice that our argument was started by
> 
> ...



In which case you'd be wrong. No-one thinks Sasuke would beat Madara, not even Madara.



> LMAO, what......(Madara's chakara absorption is the preda path)
> 
> Madara's monster size katons don't compare to ENTON, period.
> Madara's fan doesn't have anything special going for it on the offensive end, and Sasuke still wields his Kusanagi in which he is able to channel raiton chakara through.
> ...



How does one use Preta Path _without_ the Rinnegan? Furthermore the ability he used on Hashirama wasn't Preta.

That's assuming Madara doesn't have Enton himself. Then again you inadvertently admitted Sasuke cannot take base Madara without an MS ability.

Sasuke's best feats came from him borrowing his rival's Bijuu chakra, alongside his comrades Senjutsu chakra. Both powers Sasuke only has access to under precise circumstances; Madara always has access to the powers you cited.



> A superior version of Sasuke? I think that's what you're trying to validate, right? This variation of Madara under these conditions isn't superior to current Sasuke, period. Shall we compare respective resume's?
> 
> And did you seriously just utilized Madara quote to validate your opinion? Let's see, I believe Sasuke got the better of that Madara. And let's not pretend we don't have a statement that alludes to Sasuke having more potential then ANY MADARA in tow.
> 
> I don't know what's funnier. The fact that you believe a EMS Madara without PS is a better variation of current Sasuke.(When the LATER IS PACKING MORE HEAT LITERALLY) Or that you believe Madara's statement actually has some weight over Oro's, WHO ACTUALLY DOES HIS HOMEWORK.



Sasuke never got the better of Madara. Sasuke has more potential than Madara, however at the moment it is acknowledged that Sasuke is far beneath a blind Madara.

What's funny is you believe Orochimaru's statement towards a future Sasuke applies to a current Sasuke; that a comment of a comparison between current Sasuke and Madara is meaningless. 

Madara is so skilled that he's hardly needed to use his lesser MS jutsu to fight top tiers. Whereas Sasuke constantly needs to rely on them to compete with top tiers. That alone tells you whose superior MS/EMS user. 

That said it is possible that Madara wouldn't need to rely on Susanoo just to prevent sneak attacks. Seeing as he is a sensor, he won't need to have Susanoo as a "just in case" like Sasuke did. Nor will a guy who can keep up with Hashirama's chakra levels need to worry about losing chakra at a rapid rate. Then again he's skilled enough to use his ocular powers as and when needed.



BroKage said:


> Danzo was saving chakra for Tobi in the manga but we have no idea how well he'd fight if he wasn't so we can't count that, meaning he's no better than the version that lost to MS Sasuke and as such stands zero chance against EMS Madara. This honestly looks like a wank/spite thread of sorts.



He was citing his Koto use.


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## genii96 (Jan 3, 2014)

Mafara blitzed sm naruto ad sai in one shushin. He is a sensor too,so blindsiding is out of the question. His gunbai deflected a mini bijudama. He has susanoo and insane chakra levels. How can danzo win?


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