# Garp vs. Jozu + Doflamingo



## trance (May 24, 2014)

Location: MarineFord

Intel: None for Garp, Full for duo

Mindset: IC but with intent to kill

Distance: 50m


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## Extravlad (May 24, 2014)

Garp with something between mid and high difficulty
Jozu is basically a weaker version of Garp, not as fast as him, his haki and physical strength are also not on Garp's lvl, he does have a better durability with his DF, but it's still not enough to close the strength gap overall.
Garp can mid diff him.
Doflamingo would get low diffed by Garp in a 1V1, but in a 2V1 scenario he can deal some damages to Garp, won't be a problem anyways, Garp is outclassing him as well.


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## MrWano (May 24, 2014)

I think that Garp is a terrible match up for Jozu. Garp possibly has the hardest punch in the OP world, and it should be very effective against Jozu's diamond defense. Unless Oda does not want to transfer the properties of real world diamond into One Piece of course. 
I also believe Garp to be a step above him in most, if not at all, stats. So while this is just my opinion, I don't think Jozu could give him more than mid diff. As for Doffy being enough to tilt the scales... I'd say that he makes it a reasonably close fight, but that Garp takes it in the end.


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## Captain Altintop (May 24, 2014)

Garp loses here, he can't beat 2 low top tiers here .... Very High Diff for Hozu and DD


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 24, 2014)

Garp is a horrible matchup for both of these opponents. Garp takes this.


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## Coruscation (May 24, 2014)

If you want to be all feats only! and argue that no physical fighter has shown the ability to counter or escape Parasite, you could argue that the duo would win because Jozu can take on Garp well enough to prevent him from smashing Dofla's face in and that would give Dofla the opportunity he needs to activate his paralyzing ability. Whereafter supposedly they would just beat on Garp until he eventually but inevitably goes down.

I don't personally believe in that. I do think Jozu could, at least to an extent, keep Garp busy well enough to get Doflamingo an attacking opportunity, but I'm sure there is a way for powerful physical fighters to handle the ensnaring strings even though we've yet to see it and Garp is as powerful a physical fighter as it gets. Even if the duo lands a number of hits on Garp, he should have enough physical+COA durability to significantly mitigate the damage done seeing how he was able to take Don Chinjao's legendary drilling headbutt head-on with his fist and come out with his hand in working shape. He should also have enough endurance to handle whatever is left; this man is a D and Luffy's granddad, he'll no doubt fight until you rip the limbs from his body.

On the flip side's offense, we've seen how Garp's punch is so powerful it was able to take out prime Chinjao in a single blow, albeit one right to the head. That means Doflamingo is most likely getting rocked hard if he takes one of Garp's hits and a small handful should be enough to take him down for good. Due to his general speed level - enough to easily clock Marco who is quite fast himself - and ability to use Soru, it would be difficult for a grounded strength & durability-focused physical fighter like Jozu to stop Garp from going after Doflamingo. If Garp is also able to use Geppou, which is very likely seeing how even swordsmen & staff-user VAs have been shown to know it, he'll have yet another advantage over Jozu and an effective way of going after Doflamingo if he takes to the sky. Ultimately, Doflamingo will almost certainly go down. Once that happens Garp has only to engage Jozu in a brawl and considering he is the verse's #1 brawler, that is something he should be able to win unless he has been severely injured by his opponents prior to Doffy's defeat. Which due to his endurance and durability as detailed above I do not believe he would have been.

Garp wins mid-high diff.


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## Ghost (May 24, 2014)

Garp smashes Jozu into pieces and I don't see Doflamingo's strings being strong enough to fatally harm Garp or restrain him enough.

Garp high end mid diff.


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## November (May 24, 2014)

The Fist takes this.


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## GrizzlyClaws (May 24, 2014)

Garp is like a Super Sayajin version of Jozu, so this means they have the same strengths and weaknesses, but Garp has Jozu beat in all stats. Doflamingo will not do much to Garp other than annoy him with his strings. Together those two will genuinely trouble him, especially in the early stages of the fight, Jozu might even get a few hits in on Garp, but Garp will not really slow down. The biggest probelm for him would be to get past Jozu to KO Dofla, because Dofla will backup Jozu from behind and fly away once Garp reaches him. But once he gets that done, Jozu will fall a bit later. He will win with a some cuts and bruises, but nothing too dangerous.

Garp wins mid diff.


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## Freechoice (May 24, 2014)

I feel Dofla is not in the best position against brawlers like Garp.

Jozu gets shattered.

Garp takes this.

Ya'll have to understand Garp never loses.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 24, 2014)

What said:


> I feel Dofla is not in the best position against brawlers like Garp.
> 
> Jozu gets shattered.
> 
> ...



Perhaps, but what you have to argue here is whether he can escape from Doflamingo's grasp in the form of his strings.

Jozu's diamond defense gets shattered? I doubt Garp can take down Jozu's defense so easily.


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## Lawliet (May 24, 2014)

Jozu will think his diamond is going to protect him against Garp, but it won't. That's how he will lose. He will try tanking a hit or two from the fist and he will go down 

Dofla will just ask Garp to adopt him.


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## Canute87 (May 24, 2014)

If there is a way to escape Parasite, Garp shouldn't have much issues with those two.


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## Canute87 (May 24, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Perhaps, but what you have to argue here is whether he can escape from Doflamingo's grasp in the form of his strings.
> 
> Jozu's diamond defense gets shattered? I doubt Garp can take down Jozu's defense so easily.



Well Garp is bascially bypassing the diamond defense to hit Josu's real body so that shouldn't be an issue.


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## SacredX (May 24, 2014)

The limits of Parasite is, what I feel, will make or break this.  As far as I recall no one was able to even struggle against it, they were just flat out paralyzed.  But the idea of the strongest physical force being unable to counter parasite would make the Ito Ito no Mi too OP.

Also I'm a little surprized to see some are indirectly implying old Garp's punch is equal to or greater than Mihawk's slash.


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## Coruscation (May 24, 2014)

> I'm a little surprized to see some are indirectly implying old Garp's punch is equal to or greater than Mihawk's slash.



Hitting diamond with blunt force isn't the same as cutting it. You can safely bet that Garp's punches deliver more concussive force than a Mihawk slash.

Unless you're talking just about the "Garp one/two/three-shots" etc. posts. Then yeah. A Garp punch isn't _so_ much stronger even in brute force that where a Mihawk slash did nothing at all two or three punches will end it. That's kinda like saying Luffy would KO Daz Bones in two punches.


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## Magician (May 24, 2014)

Garp wins high diff.

Let's be real, parasite won't do shit.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 24, 2014)

Garp takes this


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## Daisuke Jigen (May 24, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Garp wins high diff.
> 
> Let's be real, parasite won't do shit.


I think if Doflamingo does try Parasite on Garp, it'll probably end up something like this:


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## Mr. Black Leg (May 24, 2014)

SacredX said:


> The limits of Parasite is, what I feel, will make or break this.  As far as I recall no one was able to even struggle against it, they were just flat out paralyzed.  But the idea of the strongest physical force being unable to counter parasite would make the Ito Ito no Mi too OP.
> 
> Also I'm a little surprized to see some are indirectly implying old Garp's punch is equal to or greater than Mihawk's slash.



Diamonds are > Cutting, not > Blunt .

Anyway, Garp put Marco back on his human form, Mihawk couldn't even put a dent on Jozu .


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## Canute87 (May 24, 2014)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> Diamonds are > Cutting, not > Blunt .
> 
> Anyway, Garp put Marco back on his human form, Mihawk couldn't even put a dent on Jozu .



You can't really make a comparison between absolute regen and absolute defense


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## Admiral Kizaru (May 24, 2014)

This isn't going to end well for Dofla and Jozu.

I'd give it to Garp medium difficulty.


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## tanman (May 24, 2014)

From what we've seen. I suspect Jozu performs extraordinarily well against physical fighters without special abilities. While Garp is capable of beating many opponents stronger than Jozu, I think Jozu himself will do quite well against him. Add Doflamingo and victory might indeed be possible.


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## Canute87 (May 24, 2014)

tanman said:


> From what we've seen. I suspect Jozu performs extraordinarily well against physical fighters without special abilities. While Garp is capable of beating many opponents stronger than Jozu, I think Jozu himself will do quite well against him. Add Doflamingo and victory might indeed be possible.



The things that generally ensures victory between physical fights, is firstly speed, then power then technique will power kicks in in fights of near equality

Garp is definitely faster and he packs more power behind his punches and he has techniques than just raw physical strength will power won't ever kick in for Garp though.

Josu doesn't stand a chance alone.


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## Freechoice (May 25, 2014)

SacredX said:


> Also I'm a little surprized to see some are indirectly implying old Garp's punch is equal to or greater than Mihawk's slash.



Such a huge misconception when it comes to the toughness of diamond.

It has one of the highest scratch hardness of any natural occurring material.

But it's pretty fucking brittle.

It's hard to scratch and cut, but relatively easy to break with a hammer.


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## TheOnlyOne1 (May 25, 2014)

Is this old Garp? There is no way old Garp is taking on two of these fighters. Maybe prime Garp can and I do believe he can mid diff them but not currently.  
And I am a bit skeptical about people claiming "Jozu gets shattered". I doubt it would be that easy no matter how powerful Garps punches are. Add the speed, mobility, and haxness of Doflamingo and I can see them taking it with exhaustion. High diff.


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## Freechoice (May 25, 2014)

TheOnlyOne1 said:


> And I am a bit skeptical about people claiming "Jozu gets shattered".





What said:


> Jozu gets shattered.



I wonder who you're referring to


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## TheOnlyOne1 (May 25, 2014)

What said:


> I wonder who you're referring to



It wasn't specific. Several posts are like that. I just used your line.


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## GrizzlyClaws (May 25, 2014)

I don't know if Oda will make Jozus diamond have the same properties as real diamond, ie being weak against blunt force.

He could just as well defy real life logic and say his diamond just vastly increases his defense, regardless of the type of attack thats directed at him.

see, if oda just made the effort to have some fodder explain in one or two panels how some things that happened in the war work, we wouldnt even need to discuss this.

But anyhow, Garp wins this regardless, blunt force weakness or not.


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## Freechoice (May 25, 2014)

GrizzlyClaws said:


> I don't know if Oda will make Jozus diamond have the same properties as real diamond, ie being weak against blunt force.
> 
> He could just as well defy real life logic and say his diamond just vastly increases his defense, regardless of the type of attack thats directed at him.



Yeah you're right.

I was going to add to my post that all of what I said is assuming Oda is applying real mechanics to Jozu's fruit.



> see, if oda just made the effort to have some fodder explain in one or two panels how some things that happened in the war work, we wouldnt even need to discuss this.



Amen to that.


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## Coruscation (May 25, 2014)

I think Oda highlighting Jozu's defense by having him tank a cut from the world's greatest swordsman unharmed indicates he is going to at least some extent with realistic properties for diamond. It will probably give him a great defense against blunt force as well but not to the same degree that it guards against cutting.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 25, 2014)

Most likely. No one can tank a slash that generated the amount of force capable of splitting a mountain sized piece of Ice and then grabbing it to throw it up above you without getting butchered in two cleanly. This is indication that his defense can withstand Old garp's punches, no matter what you believe. This is FICTION people, a world in which the supernatural occurs where tons of nonexistent things that differ greatly from the aspects found in our conventional view of logic. Normal diamond isn't as hard as Jozu's diamond. Normal diamond, as in the one we are knowing of in our world, has a limit of just how much force it can take before breaking and the force that it can withstand pales in comparison to what Jozu's diamond defense was seen tanking without any signs of breaking. If you believe thin streams of water cutters can exert the same amount of force as Mihawk's slash that he used in the MarineFord arc, then you're very wrong. Jozu's defense tanked it without much problem so we can conclude that his diamond is far stronger than normal diamond, thus he'd be able to tank Garp's punches as "Mihawk's slashes > Old garp's punches"


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## Canute87 (May 25, 2014)

far stronger than normal diamond 


So people "normally" can cut mountains in two?


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## LyricalMessiah (May 25, 2014)

What said:


> Such a huge misconception when it comes to the toughness of diamond.
> 
> It has one of the highest scratch hardness of any natural occurring material.
> 
> ...



This is very irrelevant information that helps you with nothing 

You're speaking about a guy who just tanked a freaking slash that generates enough energy to cut a huge piece of Ice reminiscent of the size of a mountain with absolutely no scratch at all. Find me the biggest diamond on earth and test its durability against Mihawk's slash and I guarantee you that it'll be cut in two. Whether you bring up the fact that diamonds are susceptible to force from objects with a large surface area that you vehemently believe would be successful in breaking Jozu's diamond, just understand that his defense freaking withstood Mihawk's slashes so it encapsulates all information as to just what kind of force, regardless of it coming from an object with a small surface area or a large surface area, it can withstand.

Oda's LOGIC supersedes the knowledge you have about diamonds in which you took from wikipedia.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 25, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> far stronger than normal diamond
> 
> 
> So people "normally" can cut mountains in two?



Sorry, but I am confused. His diamond  defense withstand the force on which mihawk's slash soaked all of its energy.

What? No, only mihawk can... probably shanks and other strong swordsman.


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## Freechoice (May 25, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> If you believe thin streams of water cutters can exert the same amount of force as Mihawk's slash that he used in the MarineFord arc, then you're very wrong.



Water cutters can't cut diamond.



Slamming that diamond knowledge

Maybe I should make a Diamond vs OPverse thread.

Change my avatar and sig to a diamond while I'm at it.

Maybe even organise my name to be changed to Diamond.

Diamond.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 25, 2014)

What said:


> Water cutters can't cut diamond.




Ah, yeah, sorry. Damn, what a fail from me 

You're right. I meant to say fin layers from lasers.. and you get what I meant. mihawk's slashes >  pressure from laser et cetera


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## Freechoice (May 25, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Oda's LOGIC supersedes the knowledge you have about diamonds in which you took from wikipedia.



Of course! Where else would one learn about diamonds?


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## Canute87 (May 25, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Sorry, but I am confused. His diamond  defense withstand the force on which mihawk's slash soaked all of its energy.
> 
> What? No, only mihawk can... probably shanks and other strong swordsman.



When i mean "normally" I mean in real life.

You are saying Josu's diamond is stronger than real life diamond because he can withstand a mountain size cut and with that  ask you if people can cut mountains with swords in real life.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 25, 2014)

Canute87 said:


> When i mean "normally" I mean in real life.
> 
> You are saying Josu's diamond is stronger than real life diamond because he can withstand a mountain size cut and with that  ask you if people can cut mountains with swords in real life.



I forget the "Can" after "Defense'' on the post you just quoted, just letting you know. On my phone.

Not to be rude, but that's not relevant.

What does fodders have anything to do with what I said? okay, wait 
*Spoiler*: __ 



>


 
*Spoiler*: __ 



follow me...>


 
*Spoiler*: __ 



What?




No, they cannot.

However, Jozu's defense withstood the force of Mihawk's slash that cut a mountain sized chunk of ice in two. Thus, my man Diamond-J to the Z's defense > Normal defense.

Canute, let off dat weet my bro  


As to anyone wanting to find out if Garp's punches are >mihawk slashes, just make a thread. Don't feel like arguing about this.


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## BlueDemon (May 25, 2014)

^ Why should anyone bother if most think he'd be able to dish out more power, anyway? And it's about the diamond defense being more effective agains blunt power, anyway. So there.


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## Sir Curlyhat (May 25, 2014)

_If this is old Garp i don't think Jozu would lose to him in anything but Haki and punching power, and the two would be on par with almost everything else.  In my opninion the duo wins, i think the gap between the likes of Doflamingo and the admirals is exaggerated in general. Jozu and Doflamingo should be both capable of causing serious damage to Garp in the right circumstances, and Doflamingo's strings should slow Garp down at the very least, if not imobilize him for certain intervals of time with each use._


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## Lawliet (May 25, 2014)

People applying real life physics into one piece thinking Oda actually knows about that shit. If he did, he wouldn't get an F in school, he would be a scientist right now. Cut the real life logic here, people can't stretch their arms in real life, nor they can cum magma shots.


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## Typhon (May 25, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> This is very irrelevant information that helps you with nothing
> 
> You're speaking about a guy who just tanked a freaking slash that generates enough energy to cut a huge piece of Ice reminiscent of the size of a mountain with absolutely no scratch at all. Find me the biggest diamond on earth and test its durability against Mihawk's slash and I guarantee you that it'll be cut in two. Whether you bring up the fact that diamonds are susceptible to force from objects with a large surface area that you vehemently believe would be successful in breaking Jozu's diamond, just understand that his defense freaking withstood Mihawk's slashes so it encapsulates all information as to just what kind of force, regardless of it coming from an object with a small surface area or a large surface area, it can withstand.
> 
> Oda's LOGIC supersedes the knowledge you have about diamonds in which you took from wikipedia.



All that doesn't matter because we know Garp can straight out obliterate real mountains with a punch. Jozu tanking a shot from Mihawk doesn't mean he'll be able to take a shot from Garp with just as much ease, especially since Garp hits harder, which is a guarentee. 

I got to agree on adding real world mechanics to this manga though. It makes no sense that magma can overcome fire or that rubber can straight out tank 100s of millions of volts of electricity.

On topic: Garp wins until Doflamingo shows everything he has since he's more on the hax side.


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## Shanks (May 25, 2014)

I think we need to add at least vista for to team to have a chance. Garp very high dif.


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## SsjAzn (May 25, 2014)

Garp with high difficulty.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 27, 2014)

Typhon said:


> All that doesn't matter because we know Garp can straight out obliterate real mountains with a punch. Jozu tanking a shot from Mihawk doesn't mean he'll be able to take a shot from Garp with just as much ease, especially since Garp hits harder, which is a guarentee.
> 
> I got to agree on adding real world mechanics to this manga though. It makes no sense that magma can overcome fire or that rubber can straight out tank 100s of millions of volts of electricity.
> 
> On topic: Garp wins until Doflamingo shows everything he has since he's more on the hax side.



Well, you're wrong, first of all. You know why? You're speaking about the past incarnation of garp in which he was several times stronger than the "Old garp" the OP is using in this thread. The current garp is a former shadow of his old self so saying the level of his feat in his current incarnation are of the same level as his prime self in the past is wrong. Moreover, I highly doubt he obliterated mountains. We have no idea what he was referring to and I doubt he has the ability to shatter a land the size of a mountain. Best to have concrete evidence of him actually doing it. In conclusion, Mihawk's slash he displayed in Marine ford are much more powerful than any of Old garp's feats.


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## Captain Altintop (May 27, 2014)

You really think Garp wins around mid-high diff? Ouu, you shouldn't underestimate Jozu and DD here. 

Jozu and DD are a good mix with different kind of skills which would cause the old man real trouble. I personally see current Old Garp as strong as an average Admiral who shouldn't be able to beat the hax duo here. Unless DD and Jozu are made to be lot weaker than any top tier, then I don't see Garp winning here even with superior haki. 

It will be a close fight still with above high diff for the duo.


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## Phoenix Zoro (May 29, 2014)

Garp is not looking at anything more than mid-high diff here. Doflamingo at this stage is a certified high tier. He's causing Garp literally no problems. He probably gets blitzed in all seriousness. Garp probably has such immense CoA that he could just shrug off any attack DD would throw his way anyway.

Jozu is a much larger threat, but Garp is simply better. Stronger, faster, more durable, everything. 

If this is old man Garp, its high diff at a push, prime Garp would mid diff these 2 comfortably.


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## White (May 30, 2014)

Its basically Garp vs Jozu....


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## Typhon (May 30, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> Well, you're wrong, first of all. You know why? You're speaking about the past incarnation of garp in which he was several times stronger than the "Old garp" the OP is using in this thread. The current garp is a former shadow of his old self so saying the level of his feat in his current incarnation are of the same level as his prime self in the past is wrong. Moreover, I highly doubt he obliterated mountains. We have no idea what he was referring to and I doubt he has the ability to shatter a land the size of a mountain. Best to have concrete evidence of him actually doing it. In conclusion, Mihawk's slash he displayed in Marine ford are much more powerful than any of Old garp's feats.



*Spoiler*: __ 




Done effortlessly and that thing is heavier then then what Jozu threw and over a longer distance.



Got to disagree with you... like on everything in this post. What you said would hold some merit if Garp only busted a mountain once in his prime. But to bust 8 consecutive mountains in a row means, he could bust atleast one the way he is now. I don't see how you can just disregard a character statement by Garp of all people. Not to mention straight out oneshotting and overpowering the head of Chinjao who split that giant mass in half.

I'd also like to add that out of all the old generation members, Garp is the most active one. Even if his power dropped, it didn't drop enough that he can't replicate any of his old feats.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 30, 2014)

Typhon said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can disagree with me. I never said you can. It's okay, I've done this for a long time so I won't hold any grudge, mate.

What was the point of you posting such a scan? To add  that he did such a feat effortlessly that isn't remotely close to being any sort of validation to his feat of having busted mountains in his prime just cements the fact that you're even more wrong and are grasping at whatever great strength feats he has done to use that as a reason for why he can still do his feat he did in his prime. You have no evidence of him having destroyed 8 mountains and we barely have any confirmation of the size of such mountains. Almost anything that has a fairly large surface can be referred to as a mountain so for one, we really don't know how large the implied "mountain" is and thus cannot base the fact that his punches generate more power than mihawk's slashes based solely on his iffy statement of having busted mountains that was uttered by an incarnation of Garp much stronger than his old self. Therefore, you cannot use the same feats garp had in his prime for old garp if there is a huge disparity in power between the two incarnations. A character in his prime will inevitably be stronger than when he is old in which his overall capabilities have degenerated throughout the years.

Chinjao's statement was barely anything special when compared to Mihawk's slash. Mihawk's slash was done almost casually and it has been implied that he is of the same strength caliber as Shanks, a yonkou. To reiterate, Old garp cannot be viewed as having the same quality of power as his prime self, hence the term prime, because his strength has diminished over the years, something depending on the age of the person. His feat of carrying a giant iron ball isn't evidence to your statement that he can bust mountains in his old incarnation and neither does it make him able to generate around the same power as mihawk or even more.


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## monkey d ace (May 30, 2014)

garp high diff.


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## Typhon (May 30, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> You can disagree with me. I never said you can. It's okay, I've done this for a long time so I won't hold any grudge, mate.
> 
> What was the point of you posting such a scan? To add  that he did such a feat effortlessly that isn't remotely close to being any sort of validation to his feat of having busted mountains in his prime just cements the fact that you're even more wrong and are grasping at whatever great strength feats he has done to use that as a reason for why he can still do his feat he did in his prime. You have no evidence of him having destroyed 8 mountains and we barely have any confirmation of the size of such mountains. Almost anything that has a fairly large surface can be referred to as a mountain so for one, we really don't know how large the implied "mountain" is and thus cannot base the fact that his punches generate more power than mihawk's slashes based solely on his iffy statement of having busted mountains that was uttered by an incarnation of Garp much stronger than his old self. Therefore, you cannot use the same feats garp had in his prime for old garp if there is a huge disparity in power between the two incarnations. A character in his prime will inevitably be stronger than when he is old in which his overall capabilities have degenerated throughout the years.



You straight out said that Garp has no feats on par with Mihawk's showings during marineford. I gave you a scan showing the greatest strength feat we've seen in this manga. Him punching Marco out of phoenix mode is also more impressive then what Mihawk was able to do to Vista, someone weaker.

You stating Garp has grownn much weaker as if it fact is no better then what I'm trying to convey here. You have nothing to back that claim. I've never once heard anyone besides Rayleigh say I've grown old and weak. And this is the one guy who's been inactive for 20+ years. A mountain, by it's very nature will be very large, which makes it impressive regardless of how big the mountain actually was.



> Chinjao's statement was barely anything special when compared to Mihawk's slash. Mihawk's slash was done almost casually and it has been implied that he is of the same strength caliber as Shanks, a yonkou. To reiterate, Old garp cannot be viewed as having the same quality of power as his prime self, hence the term prime, because his strength has diminished over the years, something depending on the age of the person. His feat of carrying a giant iron ball isn't evidence to your statement that he can bust mountains in his old incarnation and neither does it make him able to generate around the same power as mihawk or even more.


1.) Garp is arguably the 3rd strongest person we've seen thus far.

2.) Mihawk has never been compared to Shanks after he became a yonkou.

3.) Obviously him throwing a iron ball doesn't cement the fact that he can destroy mountains. That wasn't my purpose for posting it.

4.) This prime, not prime doesn't change anything. Rayleigh was out of his prime and was still able to deal with Kizaru. Whitebeard, both sick and old still took down Akainu. How is the fact that Garp who's hype rivals these 2 not have the power to rival Mihawk? It's ridiculous when he's the most active one and therefore had the lowest decrease in power. 

5.) All top tiers are hyped to destroy islands. You're telling me one of the strongest of them can't even bust a mountain? When we have Law cutting mountain ranges in half?


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## LyricalMessiah (May 30, 2014)

Typhon said:


> SNIP



You have not brought any facts. I am convinced the concept of fact is something your intellect cannot quite grasp at. Your action of bringing Garp's feat of holding a huge ball made out of steel isn't evidence that debunks your supposed view of my argument that I said garp is weak. I never said Garp is weak, I said the fact that he tossed a huge ball made out of steel isn't evidence that he hasn't gotten weak and is still as powerful as his prime self, nor is it proof that he can generate the same amount of power as Mihawk's slash as he simply held the ball which there is no way to verify the power his punches pack. It's impossible to say he can generate the same amount of force as mihawk if all he did was held it.

Not how facts work, my friend. You can try your best to convince me that what you are saying is a fact, but unless it has been objectively portrayed to be an attack on par with Mihawk's casual slash he used in Marineford that resulted in the cutting of a  mountain sized chunk of Ice, your continuous bickering of Garp being able to generate the same amount of power as Mihawk will be to no avail. What garp did was simply pick up a huge iron ball that weights a few tons. There is nothing in that feat that gives implication to Garp's ability to generate the same amount of force as the slash mihawk used on that huge chunk of ice the size of a mountain. Facts need to be prove, whereas your opinion do not. You can claim that Grap can destroy a mountain sized block in his old state by basing said argument on the fact that his strength has not deteriorated over the years (which has given it's normal of a person to lose strength after he or she becomes old), which has been debunked by me, but unless you bring me evidence of Garp being capable of generating more energy than the slash Mihawk used on that gigantic iceberg, your claims cannot be called as facts.

Him punching Marco is not impressive. We've seen many characters punch a fighter several meters away where the character that's been punched is sent flying meters away towards the opposite direction he is facing. What's there of the feat of him punching Marco that says that Garp soaked more energy than Mihawk used on that gigantic iceberg the size of a mountain? Take note that Mihawk's iceberg slash was done almost effortlessly with just one simple swing in a vertical motion. Had he went all out, we'd have seen him destroyed more portions of the iceberg. It's clear that Mihawk is above vista. Mihawk was simply savoring the fact that he gets to meet one of the strongest swordsman which happens rarely I reckon.

Well, rayleigh, a legendary fighter as strong as Garp had admitted to becoming weaker aftera prolonged amount of time of not fighting and due to his age in sabaody archipelago when he stated that he would have been capable of taking both Kizaru and Kuma on in his prime years. Why shouldn't the same be applicable to Garp? Garp is a human, thus as he ages, his strength will be a former shadow of himself to the point where his feats in his prime self will become non existent in his old incarnation. It's common sense, really. You don't get what OLD AGE refers to in this context, do you? There shouldn't be any facts brought up to prove why current garp is weaker than his prime self. In his prime self, he was doing feats that supersede the feats he has shown in his current self due to him deteriorating in strength that stems from his old age.

 Garp's statement that he can bust mountains ( which is still a statement I don't quite believe) was a statement made by him in his PRIME SELF. The Garp the OP used in this thread is CURRENT GARP, an incarnation of garp much weaker than his prime self. Hence the term prime and old that are direct reference to the level of strength of both incarnations. One of them being very strong, and the other still strong yet not as powerful as the prime incarnation of Garp. Therefore, any argument that old garp can use the same feats as his prime self is superfluous drivel that only is contradicted by the term prime of a person/character as it breaks the limits of the implication of Prime. There would be no use to use said term if every incarnation of a character, in which there should normally be certain point of his or her life where he or she is to become old, is in his prime and never deteriorates in strength despite him or her having limits.  

You're suggesting garp is always in his prime and this is taken from a direct reference that is your statements themselves. Frankly, you haven no proof to suggest that he is always in his prime, whereas I do have proof that he isn't always in his prime; old age and the decline of his strength. It's similar with Whitebeard; in his prime self, he was arguably a fighter capable of dealing with admirals with lesser difficulty than when he is fighting them in his old self as his health and strength greatly devaluated as a consequence of his old age.

No, he isn't the third strongest person seen thus far. He is strong, but not the 3rd strongest person.. I never claimed that he was weak mind you, just weaker than his prime self where he supposedly crushed 8 mountains with his fists so that incarnation of garp is another incarnation of garp altogether who differs greatly to the current old/weak garp in terms of overall fighting capabilities. Therefore, the conclusion is that old garp wouldn't be able to crush those mountains if his strength had diminished over the course of the years.

Yes, Mihawk and Shanks have been portrayed to be on the same level and it's implied that Mihawk is shank's rival.

Yes, it was. the point of that post was to prove how he isn't weak that was somehow supposed to be a counterargument to my statement? If so, that would mean your reason of arguing with me in this part of the argument is because you believed I stated garp of being weak? Well, you can keep on clutching to your straw man all you want, but I never once made that Claim. My point isn't to prove how and why old garp is weak ( he isn't by the way), but that he is weaker than his prime self, which is an objective fact supported by Oda's portrayal and logic in general, and the scan you brought doesn't debunk the straw man you've been beating that was supposed to have been me saying that Garp was weak? No. The huge iron ball isn't proof that he is still around the same strength as his prime self. Not even close. The level of such a feat isn't enough to elicit that his strength is still akin to what it used to be in his prime self. The proximity at which his strength should be to truly make old garp viewable as akin to his prime self is if he shows an incredible strength feat that depicts him generating strong amounts of force onto a strong matter to the point it shatters it, or a feat a lot better than the feat where he hold a gigantic iron ball. By the way, that feat is in no way implication that your counterargument to the straw man you've created make you prove that he isn't weak, a statement I never once uttered.

Fallacies in one? No, the point has gone through one of your ears and straight out the other. My point was that both rayleigh who fought kizaru and kuma on sabaody archipelago was not in his prime during his confrontation of the admiral and the shishibukai, but the fact that he was able to withstand against such strong opponents was due to him BEING THIS STRONG even if not in his prime. After all, he is a legend. The fact that he withstood the combined force of Kuma and kizaru (despite not actually fighting kuma) had to do with being being portrayed as one of the strongest fighters in spite of being weaker than his prime self as evidenced by his statement where he directly says he'd have had less difficulty taking on Kuma and kizaru had he been as strong as his prime self instead of his current self. And it does not exempt the fact that what I said of him being in his prime where he'd be capable of handling kuma and kizaru with less difficulty was a fact portrayed by Oda. 

Similar with Whitebeard. Even knowing that Whitebeard wasn't in his prime, he is still a legend in the verse and was still the world's strongest man whose strength in not being in his prime was still stronger than strong fighters in their primes. Just because you aren't in your prime yet still managed to manhandle a strong fighter in their prime has no correlation with you being in your prime. Hence the assertion that you aren't in your prime as mentioned in the beginning. Whitebeard was noted to be sick even prior to the start of the war and had major health issues that were reiterated throughout the war and another contributing factor to him not being in his prime was his old age. However, this doesn't mean that because he was able to beat an admiral in their prime it's automatic proof of whitebeard being in his prime. The strength of whitebeard, whether in his prime or not, is simply a notch above an admiral in their prime as proven by the fact that he took an admiral class fighter with very high difficulty, a fight in which he won. The level of strength of whitebeard in which it resides is very incredible, regardless of prime or not, he didn't gain the WSM for no reason.  This speaks volume to both the level of strength of rayleigh and whitebeard. 

Not all top tiers can destroy an island. Besides, whether prime garp can destroy a mountain is arguable and irrelevant to the content of the discussion. What I am saying is that current garp is weaker than his prime incarnation so any feats he had in his prime his current feats are half of the quality of said feats in his prime self. Either they show the feats or not. Vergo is a top tier, zoro and sanji as well, yet they couldn't destroy a mountain? It depends on the aspect of one's ability and whether it's made for destroying. Aokiji is a top tier, yet his ability doesn't suit all to well with brute force and destruction to the point his rank speaks for him being able to destroy an island.

 The mechanic's of Law's abilities differ greatly to that of Mihawk's or that of Garp's. Mihawk relies on brute strength and pure cutting technique, whereas Law relies on hax. Law doesn't need strength to cut the mountain that he had cut in punkhazard. His ability ignores conventional durability by default and the feat of him cutting a mountain resides mostly with the attributes of his ability that can cut up a matter usually resistant to cutting without having to undergo the same prerequisite as your standard swordsman's cutting ability that consists of  needing power and finesse to cut a strong and resistant matter like metal. Law's feat was mostly complimented by his Devil fruit's hax, and not him having used brute strength to cut such a huge portion of a matter.


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## Typhon (May 30, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> ...



Granted I skimmed that wall of text because of all the BS I saw. I'll just tackle a few things I noticed that just don't sit right at all.

1.) *Not bringing up facts: *
-We are comparing near featless characters to eachother. Everything I've brought up is through deductive reasoning, something I'm not sure you quite grasp. How do I know this? You said Garp punching Marco wasn't impressive nor was throwing a giant iron cannon ball, even going as far as to say it only weighed a few tons. Marco over the course of that war took attacks in his phoenix form that would atleast destroy cities and was unphazed by it. An example is the Kizaru assault that he straight out tanked. Then we have Garp punch Marco so hard that he actually phased out of his phoenix form and retained a bruise. If you aren't seeing where I'm going then there is a problem. Same can be said for the giant iron ball. Jozu threw something lighter and freaking Akainu had to deal with. Imagine a much heavier metal being thrown and how much damage it could do when we have swords that like you say, can cut mountains in half. 

2.) *Prime vs non Prime:*
-I never said Garp was as strong as he was in his prime. I was saying that it is common sense that Garp can atleast replicate feats on par with Mihawk for obvious reasons I've already stated and getting old didn't make him "several times weaker". Garp is the only person besides Whitebeard himself who could take on Roger and nearly kill him. No one else. That by itself makes him the 3rd strongest. Obviously Garp has gotten weaker, but you're saying Garp cannot replicate any feats he's done in the past through no other reason then he's old. I specifically said that Garp could atleast bust one mountain through the character statement that he busted 8 no more then 30 years ago. My examples of other fights were to get through to you that Garp getting weaker from age doesn't stop him from taking on Mihawk. Saying otherwise is just ignoring the manga. 

3.) *Where we really differ:*
-As I've said. I have used nothing but deductive reasoning since I came into this thread. As already said, we're using nigh featless characters. But it seems to me that you rely on nothing but feats, which is your reasoning behind Garp not being able to match Mihawk when freaking Law matched him, albeit it wasn't nearly as casual. Oh and top tiers not being hyped to destroy islands? Whitebeard destroyed one, Kuzan and Akainu reformed one, and we have other top tiers destoying mountain ranges casually...


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## LyricalMessiah (May 31, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Granted I skimmed that wall of text because of all the BS I saw. I'll just tackle a few things I noticed that just don't sit right at all.
> 
> 1.) *Not bringing up facts: *
> -We are comparing near featless characters to eachother. Everything I've brought up is through deductive reasoning, something I'm not sure you quite grasp. How do I know this? You said Garp punching Marco wasn't impressive nor was throwing a giant iron cannon ball, even going as far as to say it only weighed a few tons. Marco over the course of that war took attacks in his phoenix form that would atleast destroy cities and was unphazed by it. An example is the Kizaru assault that he straight out tanked. Then we have Garp punch Marco so hard that he actually phased out of his phoenix form and retained a bruise. If you aren't seeing where I'm going then there is a problem. Same can be said for the giant iron ball. Jozu threw something lighter and freaking Akainu had to deal with. Imagine a much heavier metal being thrown and how much damage it could do when we have swords that like you say, can cut mountains in half.
> ...



I don't think you understand the terms you are using. Don't try to sound smart by applying words like "Deductive reasoning" when your post show no semblance of such reasoning. You can't just quite use said terms without having an extensive grasp as to how you can use it in a sentence to use it as reference to one's actions. You acting like a little ignorant person unable to understand that your blatant speculation of garp, old one, being capable of replicating the same feat as his prime self despite the term prime indicating the state of the character being at his pinnacle whereas the current old garp has had his power diminished greatly due to age is nowhere as complete, powerful and consistent as his prime self. Do you even know what the term "Prime" refers to? Garp throwing a giant metallic boulder comes nowhere near to being hint of his monstrous ability to dismantle mountains. That feat is very puny as opposed to busting mountains with your fist.

 How many times have I had to teach you what this word meant? What's wrong with this word? is there something about the word prime that's bothering you? No, because the burden of proof is on you to provide the adequate evidence to suggest that old garp can replicate his prime incarnation's feats despite them being two different versions of garp altogether; one was in his prime where he was young and very powerful at that time and the other, current garp, is an old lazy far who, although is still strong, has had his power decreased due to age and being inactive throughout the years. This, you must understand instead of going on a tangent proclaiming speculative claims that are simply your opinionated beliefs. Grap punching marco is not a feat that proves his superiority over Mihawk in terms of power. All he did was punch him a few meters back. Was it impressive? Of course. As good as Mihawk's feat of splitting the iceberg? No.

Okay, why is it that in every threads where garp is the main highlight of attention, members can differentiate between two incarnation of garps by which they can opt between one of them, current, old self and prime? There is obviously a difference in power between the two garps if members feel the need to split two incarnations of one character. The reason? Prime garp is stronger and when a thread maker feels the urge to pit him against a god tier, they'll more than likely use his strongest incarnation, his prime self. Hence the term prime. Are you suggesting that they're wrong? Backpedaling will do you no good and trying to lie because you're unable to withstand the own weight of your ignorance is not a good tactic. Many times throughout our debates you've claimed current Garp to have not diminished in strength throughout the year he has been inactive as a marine. Therefore, you obviously think the power of garp remained the same as his prime self. Are you having a hard time understanding the own drivel you've spouted that after you were exposed of your own lies, you have to make a parody of your original argument, modified it a bit to seem like you never made such a claim? You obviously believe that current Garp is capable of doing the same feat as his incarnation when he was in his prime despite him having lost a great portion of his strength due to age. And further reason for why he is not as powerful as his prime is because he was inactive for a very long time. Now, does this imply that Garp is weak? Of course not. I never made the claim that he was weak, although weaker than his prime self, which is a fact, I did claim.

You think that old Garp can generate the same amount of energy of busting mountains with his punches as his prime self whose strength was renown for stating/doing said feat, yet you claim that you don't think current garp is as strong as his prime self? How does this make any sense to you, I will never understand. But I can see that you don't want to accept that you made a huge contradiction in what you wanted to tell me. If we accept prime garp's mountain busting feat,current Garp cannot bust mountains if he isn't as strong as his prime self (which you admitted to yet simultaneously claimed that he can bust mountains like his prime self) due to age, being inactive et cetera. Like my whitebeard and rayleigh example. Both had stated that they were way past their primes and could have achieved better results in the opponents they've fought. Seeing how I already debunked your argument that a strong character past his prime beating another strong character in his prime in no way is implication of the victor being in his prime, what other lies do you have to cover?

Forming mountains and destroying them are too entirely different concepts altogether. You'd need enough energy in the megaton ranges I reckon to destroy a mountain and causing such a feat in one shot is something beyond the limits what they've shown with their control over their logia powers.  And it took them 10 days to form those mountains (which still isn't implication that they can destroy a mountain as forming and destroying are too different things) whereas it took law a few seconds to completely bifurcate those mountains so your logic that the admirals should be able to do the same is hilariously flawed and an analogy that hasn't even been looked upon to scrutinize it in finding any mistakes in your example. Of course, it being you, I highly doubt you'd be capable of reading properly. Law cutting a ship isn't reference to be used for other characters stronger than him having the capability of causing the same destruction he caused on the mountains. The reason being, that has already been mentioned, is because his respective ability has its own mechanics that differ greatly to your average devil fruit user's ability and how they can cause damage. Also, Zoro, and sanji are top tiers. Magellan is a top tier so is Rayleigh and hancock, but their abilities obviously won't allow them to bust mountains. Correlation does not imply causation.


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## Typhon (May 31, 2014)

Lyrical-Messiah said:


> snip



Please don't insult my intelligence. The personal attacks only make you a hypocrite. All you've given me since you started this argument is conjecture while straight out ignoring anything I say. The whole point of my argument, which you aren't understanding is I know Garp obviously isn't as strong as his prime self, *but that doesn't mean he can't replicate any of his old feats.* I don't know what about this is so hard for you to grasp! Garp punching out Chinajo wasn't even when he was in his prime either. That was before he consistently went after Roger.

You're right on one point. People do make threads with different incarnations of Garp, but guess what? Old Garp still rocks most of the people he's pinned against. Prime Garp just has a much easier time! This in essence is what I'm trying to say here. There was once a thread where Garp was placed against Akainu. The consensus was that old Garp vs Akainu could go either way mostly in favor of Garp and that Prime Garp would mid diff him. Here's the thing though... Garp still wins! Old or Prime. And this is Akainu who can get back up after an attack that breaks an island in half! How stupid is it to believe Garp can't do as much as break a mountain.

The fact that those two straight reformed an island and changed it's climate permanently is just as impressive as breaking one. Not to mention, the epicenter of their fight actually broke the island in half anyway.

Anyway, I'm done. I've said what I needed to say and am not about to keep repeating myself and having my words taken out of context. Nor have points that shoot down your arguments ignored.

Edit: Also, I don't know what your definition of top tier is, but the M3, hancock, and Law aren't considered Top tiers. Right now the lowest top tiers are either Jozu or Marco.


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## LyricalMessiah (May 31, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Please don't insult my intelligence. The personal attacks only make you a hypocrite. All you've given me since you started this argument is conjecture while straight out ignoring anything I say. The whole point of my argument, which you aren't understanding is I know Garp obviously isn't as strong as his prime self, *but that doesn't mean he can't replicate any of his old feats.* I don't know what about this is so hard for you to grasp! Garp punching out Chinajo wasn't even when he was in his prime either. That was before he consistently went after Roger.
> 
> You're right on one point. People do make threads with different incarnations of Garp, but guess what? Old Garp still rocks most of the people he's pinned against. Prime Garp just has a much easier time! This in essence is what I'm trying to say here. There was once a thread where Garp was placed against Akainu. The consensus was that old Garp vs Akainu could go either way mostly in favor of Garp and that Prime Garp would mid diff him. Here's the thing though... Garp still wins! Old or Prime. And this is Akainu who can get back up after an attack that breaks an island in half! How stupid is it to believe Garp can't do as much as break a mountain.
> 
> ...



Your false accusations filled with ad hominems tend to detract from the point of this thread and they're halting any stimulation I had from this debate. Things like arguing with a more or less decent debater  tends to make me have high respect for the opponent with whom I am debating. Any discourse I may be lucky enough to have with a person I always hope I can learn something very informative from them regardless of who the person is, but I haven't had any such feelings when I discussing of this topic with you up until you started ignoring the mistakes you made and falsely accused me of things I never did. You shouldn't go straight out at being condescending if you can't counter any of my points and to say that I have been speculating is an ignoramus claim. I have never been speculating. I have been providing substantial support for my arguments and claims that I have been making in this debate.

Highlighting such a horrible mistake will only make you look redundant then meticulous in what you  believe is emphasizing a supposed "correct" point to make sure it gets through my head. Just to clarify some things, again and again, Garp is not weak. This claim, I never once uttered so any thoughts you have that concern aforementioned claim which you believed I said is false and a Straw-Man. If you don't understand the latter term, then search it up and don't ever do it again. My claim that you somehow have a lot of difficulty in grasping is that current weak garp has deteriorated in strength over the years due to not being active enough as to fight, go on missions where his strength and overall fighting capabilities would have remained consistent that way to the point a small loss of strength as a consequence of old age wouldn't affect any of his fighting prowess. 

Any feats Garp has in his prime cannot be used as evidence for Old garp's feats as those are two complete different garps where one's strength was at his pinnacle, whereas the other was not. Now, if you want to argue how much strength old garp lost when we contrast his current feats to the old one, you might be able to find how much strength he lost, albeit it isn't all that precise. The amount of strength garp lost is enormous. Thus, I made the claim that he isn't as strong as his prime self, a stronger incarnation of Garp where his power, haki skills, intelligence were much above old garp.

Lifting does not equate to the amount of power your fists can generate. Sure, he was able to lift a metallic ball that weights several tons, however that does not reflect on the amount of force his punches can generate and it, his punches, being stronger than Mihawk's slashes because you're under the belief that his punches in his old state are as strong as his prime self, which is a huge misconception you've been led to believe is wrong. That feat doesn't come close to his feat in his prime that was before the current story line which says it all really; the feat of holding a huge ball made out of metal isn't a feat that gives you hint of his monstrous power (He does have monstrous power even in his old state but he still can't bust mountains) it gives you hint of old garp's capability of busting a mountain.

Oh gosh, more of "garp wankers" Garp would lose to akainu, who came very close in defeating an old whitebeard who was leagues above every being in the pre time skip except for perhaps a few fighters like the trio admirals, old garp, sengoku and rayleigh. Old garp would lose to Whitebeard with even more difficulty than Akainu had against Whitebeard because his ability is not a good counter against Whitebeard's fighting style which is in essence hand to hand combat with the Gura Gura no mi that'd straight out obliterate Old garp had it came in contact with his body. Remember that altercation between Gura blackbeard and old garp where garp did not even dare to confront Blackbeard face to face? That was portrayal of just how feared the ability to control tremors was and if a legend like Garp was afraid to step in combat utility of its use, then no one would even dare to recklessly step charge at Blackbeard, unless they're stupid. Akainu would defeat old garp with high difficulty. His ability of spamming vast quantities of magma and great haki skills for defensive purposes just makes the victory go in his favors and frankly I doubt old garp would beat a fleet admiral with ease. He'd have a hard time going against a magma man.

No, it is not. they never broke the island. Making a mountain with your unlimited quantity of element isn't nearly as impressive as breaking a mountain with some sort of power that requires energy in force and in the case of the admirals? They created a mountain in 10 days, which is impressive in itself but not quite as impressive as Law's feat or a feat of someone actually breaking a mountain because their feat differ greatly to actually breaking a mountain. They gradually submerged the island on which they were fighting on with small bits of their elements to begin with until the island had started to pile up with their element for after a prolonged amount of time of their fight. This is not akin to them having had the necessary energy to make a mountain that it makes them look like they can break a mountain because what they did is completely different to destroying a mountain. 

They created mountains out of their own element which you believe  is somehow proof that they can break a mountain with one attack. The basis you use to support your claim that them creating mountains is similar to destroying a mountain is that creating a mountain with your element is similar because they "created a mountain" This is an unsupported claim. Anyways, they only did it in 10 days while having unlimited quantities of their element, it isn't all that hard to mimic the form of something like a mountain or a volcano with unlimited quantities of ice or lava et cetera...  As for them breaking the epicenter of the island? Okay, first of all, you have to understand physics here. When the surface of a matter like rock is very hot because of fire or magma and then after a long prolonged of time where it's still very hot it gets smothered in a large amount of a very cold substance like ice, the quick change of temperature that the matter is subdued to will crack and have large gaps of fissures on its surface. Furthermore, creating an island after spamming your unlimited quantity of your own respective element is not a feat as good as Law's ability to bifurcate an island in two in a matter of seconds.

They are top tier, though. Most shishibukais would be able to make it as commander of the whitebeard pirates or a yonkou commander. Going to backpedal on this part of the argument because you're afraid your argument will not work against me? Law is a top tier, and still managed to destroy a mountain and there is no correlation between being a top tier and being able to bust a mountain. It's dependent on the ability of the character. I've already given you more than one character that are high tiers, yet aren't mountain busters. Okay, going by your "definition" of a top tier, Vista showed no remote feats of being able to destroy a mountain, jozu as well and so did marco. Marco, being the strongest among the mentioned has nothing in his arsenal that can destroy a mountain as his ability isn't of the same function as an ability that is based on pure strength.


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## Yamucha (May 31, 2014)

I just don't see Jozu keeping Garp that much occupied so that Dofla could do as he liked, nor stay protected for long, and Garp is a really bad matchup for him. Garp takes this mid difficulty.


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## Gervin (Jun 1, 2014)

Holy walls of text :amazed

Garp wins high difficulty.  Sure real world diamonds may be brittle, but the reason I can't see the manga applying this logic is because Jozu's fruit would actually be a liability against strong people that use blunt force attacks.  He would be better off not using his fruit at all against such people.  I prefer to view his ability as a direct defensive powerup.  Still not enough to beat Garp, even with Dofla's hax.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

Diamond is brittle to blunt force.

Garp specializes in blunt force and has >> Haki.

Garp grabs DD's strings and throws him like Bowser.

Garp no-diffs these chumps.


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## Ruse (Jun 14, 2014)

Garp mid diffs


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Garp mid diffs



Who's bringing him to mid diff?


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## Amol (Jun 14, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Who's bringing him to mid diff?



No top tier gets no-diff from another top-tier. Jozu is low end top-tier . No-diff means stomp. As much I like Garp he won't 'no-diff' Jozu and DD.
Garp mid-diff.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

Jozu isn't a top tier, neither is DD. They're both higher end high tiers.


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## GrizzlyClaws (Jun 14, 2014)

i'm not buying garp "no diffing" jozu and dd, even if it was 1 on 1 against either of them i wouldnt, as it would assume a gap between them and him like between luffy/zoro and mr. 5/miss valentine in whiskey peak.

mid diff sounds correct, eventhough i could understand if someone thinks it would be high diff.


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## Amol (Jun 14, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Jozu isn't a top tier, neither is DD. They're both higher end high tiers.



Jozu made an admiral bleed. What you said is 'no-diff'. Which means stomp. No admiral can stomp Jozu. He can gave them mid-high diff fight. Being top-tier didn't make you invisible to high tier even if we go by your defination. Don't use casually words like no diff. Serious underestimation of jozu.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

First of all, if you read my post, you would know I was joking.

Second of all, if you read my post, you would have found out that Diamond is exceptionally brittle when it comes to blunt force. If you hit a diamond with a hammer, it would shatter into a million pieces whereas if you tried to cut it you wouldn't even dent it. Garp specializes in blunt force damage. A way to combat this is via Haki, something Garp also specializes in and has far better mastery over than Jozu.

Third of all, Jozu doesn't have any notable feats against blunt force, and as I said it's much harder to cut a diamond than it is to hammer a diamond so the Mihawk tanking feat isn't applicable.

DD doesn't really matter in this fight as he'd handily get beaten by a top tier and Jozu's exceptionally weak to blunt force damage in addition to Garp's Haki being significantly greater than his which furthermore widens the gap between the two of them.

Low diff is being generous.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

Amol said:


> Jozu made an admiral bleed. What you said is 'no-diff'. Which means stomp. No admiral can stomp Jozu. He can gave them mid-high diff fight. Being top-tier didn't make you invisible to high tier even if we go by your defination. Don't use casually words like no diff. Serious underestimation of jozu.



He caugh Aokiji off-guard... 

Read my posts, please. Also, do your research on Diamonds in addition to how Haki disparity works.


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## Ruse (Jun 14, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Who's bringing him to mid diff?



Well I didn't really think it out so I just gave the team the benefit of the doubt.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Well I didn't really think it out so I just gave the team the benefit of the doubt.



Jozu's Diamond defenses have to be so fucking overhyped it's not even funny. 

Either that, or Oda's a simpleton that doesn't know anything about Diamond and/or relies on Jozu's BH game to be on-point.

Needless to say, Garp's BH is arguably the best in the series (only one to actually injure Marco) so yeah...


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## Ruse (Jun 14, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> Jozu's Diamond defenses have to be so fucking overhyped it's not even funny.
> 
> Either that, or Oda's a simpleton that doesn't know anything about Diamond and/or relies on Jozu's BH game to be on-point.
> 
> Needless to say, Garp's BH is arguably the best in the series (only one to actually injure Marco) so yeah...



Well he redirected the slash of Zoro's Eos goal so naturally his defenses will be overhyped


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## Amol (Jun 14, 2014)

нιѕσкα said:


> He caugh Aokiji off-guard...
> 
> Read my posts, please. Also, do your research on Diamonds in addition to how Haki disparity works.



Read first 3 pages before you post . This is not real life . Jozu not only have his DF but also  Haki strong enough to hurt logia Admiral. Sure Garps haki is superior but by no means it will cause stomp. This is not Prime Garp. Currently he is as strong as C3. Do your research on word no-diff. There is nothing in your post to read except one line.
So Old Garp will not 'no-diff' Jozu and DD. I know you are not even joking.


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## GIORNO (Jun 14, 2014)

ThatBlackGuy said:


> Well he redirected the slash of Zoro's Eos goal so naturally his defenses will be overhyped



Yeah, people don't realize blunt force > slashes when it comes to Diamonds. You can't cut Diamond as easily as you can smash it.


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