# Amazon lily vs Buster Call



## Orca (Nov 14, 2013)

Since there was an argument going on about this on another thread, I decided to make a thread about it.

Amazon lily is ordered to be destroyed by the marines and a buster call is summoned. These are the Ennies lobby Vice admirals. Hancock is present on the island along with rest of her crew.

Discuss.....


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## Goomoonryong (Nov 14, 2013)

Buster call wins a single strong VA would fodderize Hancocks sisters and the Kuja pirates and the fodder marines can take out the weaker Amazons, while the remaining VA's beat Hancock.


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## tanman (Nov 14, 2013)

The Buster Call takes down Amazon Lily handily.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

The Marines will have to look for 5 new VAs.


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## RF (Nov 14, 2013)

VA's win comfortably.

3 of them beat the shit out of Hancock, the other two destroy the rest.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Nov 14, 2013)

Amazon Lily gets obliterated tbh. 


First thing the VA's would do is blow up Hancock's ship meaning she has no way of reaching them, not being able to swin and all. Not that she would have much chance of stopping them all if she did.


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## Sentomaru (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> The Marines will have to look for 5 new VAs.


Hancok fanboyism at its finest.

Amazon Lily get's wiped off the map. If we assume the Buster Call is led by Onigumo, Doberman, Momonga, Yamakji, and Strawberry. And even it's a different set of Vice Admirals, the sheer amount of soldiers (800 per ship and a shitton of officers) is simply too much for Hancock and her pathetic snake sisters. 

And don't forget that every Buster Call is supervised by an Admiral who could always decide to intervene.

Buster Call low diff.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Buster Call Low Diff? Seriously? We're talking about arguably the 3rd strongest warlord here. She would probably knock out most of the 800 soldiers you're so proud of with her Cotc. Then proceed to pwn the VAs in a 1 vs 1 fight comfortably while her small army keep the rest busy. 

Those VAs are always going to be VAs, if they have gotten stronger at all, they would'v been nominated to admirals by now. That being said, Momonga had to stab himself to not get owned by her presence a lone, imagine what would'v happened to him if she actually attacked and wanted him dead. 

The girl pwned sentomaru while sitting on her snake laughing, was ready to engage in a fight with Aokiji, an admiral just for touching Luffy in front of her.  Couple VAs got nothing on her, like I said, the marines will be looking for 5 new VAs to replace the ones who went into a suicidal mission.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

How would a Buster call on Amazon Lilly would go....

Hancock would use Kings Haki to own most of the fodder on the 5 ships and turn the rest to stone (see momonga being his ships only survivor). *EVERY SINGLE AMAZON IS A HAKI USER*, they could simply zerg the 5 VA and their virtually unmanned ships to death with Hancock taking the lead, nite to mention the ships then being at the mercy of the Sea Kings at the clam belt.

Buster Call is a big deal if their opponents are just helpless scholars and innocent people like in Ohara or an island with surprisingly no haki users like Ennies Lobby but it aint doing shit to Amazon Lily, let me reiterate, *ain't doing shit to Amazon Lily.*

That Busters Call would be annihilated.

....VA wank is still alive and well on this forum i see/


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## Admiral Kizaru (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Buster Call Low Diff? Seriously? We're talking about arguably the 3rd strongest warlord here. She would probably knock out most of the 800 soldiers you're so proud of with her Cotc. Then proceed to pwn the VAs in a 1 vs 1 fight comfortably while her small army keep the rest busy.
> 
> Those VAs are always going to be VAs, if they have gotten stronger at all, they would'v been nominated to admirals by now. That being said, Momonga had to stab himself to not get owned by her presence a lone, imagine what would'v happened to him if she actually attacked and wanted him dead.
> 
> The girl pwned sentomaru while sitting on her snake laughing, was ready to engage in a fight with Aokiji, an admiral just for touching Luffy in front of her.  Couple VAs got nothing on her, like I said, the marines will be looking for 5 new VAs to replace the ones who went into a suicidal mission.



You realise that for a Buster Call the marines don't actually go and invade the island? They'll be ten warships bombarding every single thing moving on the island without any mercy from the safety of the waters surrounding it. Most her army will perish before she can even think of any kind of response. 

Baron Tamago is right. Low difficulty.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Oh So a person like EL Luffy managed to destroy one of their ships, but a person like Hancock is helpless and can't think of a way to counter the attacks? What stops Hancock from jumping to each ship and destroys every living being on it since all 5 VAs are going to be on a different ship, which even makes things easier for Hancock.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> You realise that for a Buster Call the marines don't actually go and invade the island? They'll be ten warships bombarding every single thing moving on the island without any mercy from the safety of the waters surrounding it. Most her army will perish before she can even think of any kind of response.
> 
> Baron Tamago is right. Low difficulty.


_*Its in the clam belt*_, *which is chock full of sea kings*, Normally Marine ships aren't caught by sea kings cause of the Sea Stone underneath them causes them to go unnoticed, but even that isnt completely full proof, Momonga had to handle a sea king that simply noticed their ship when it was in one spot for too long.

1 ship being noticed for being in one spot for too long?, *10 ships firing cannons in one pace will be noticed immediately.
*
10 Ships bombarding an island in the clam belt will only result in 10 ships being wrecked by  a bunch of sea monsters.

Furthermore, its not like Amazon Lilly has no ships or firepower of its own, hell, their is all haki powered, raining haki arrows would wreck these ships.

In other words, this "low diff" is sheer fantasy unless its for Amazon Lily.

Let me reiterate, *a Buster Call ain't doing shit to Amazon Lily.*


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## RF (Nov 14, 2013)

Please, just stop everyone. This is not even worth arguing. Amazon Lily loses, even if it's _only_ the Vice Admirals.

Momonga and Dalmatian could unequivocally treat Luffy at the war like the utmost fodder, and they did. Everyone who thinks that Amazon fodder are going to be some huge problem for the Vice Admirals truly need to get a fucking grip. One of them solos, sisters included. 

As for Hancock? There's absolutely nothing in the manga that connotes to her being able to defeat multiple Vice Admirals at once. Momonga wasn't even allowed to retaliate, yet he managed to keep his head and casually threaten her. In an actual battle, Onigumo will put her in some cheap seastone cuffs as soon as she lets her guard down (I estimate a couple of seconds) and then they rape her. Literally. 

Amazon Lily has no shot here.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Oh So a person like EL Luffy managed to destroy one of their ships, but a person like Hancock is helpless and can't think of a way to counter the attacks? What stops Hancock from jumping to each ship and destroys every living being on it since all 5 VAs are going to be on a different ship, which even makes things easier for Hancock.



Did EL Luffy destroy any of the ships? I recall one ship getting destroyed when Onguimo ordered it to be shot down and two of them crashing into one another when Sanji closed the gates. 

Anyway perhaps the fact as a DF user she can't exactly swin towards the ships? Like I said if the marines were clever, they'd direct one ship to blow up the harbour and her ship. 

Hancock still perhaps would be able to muster up a response, she's strong and capable enough to do so - the rest of them no. They'll be panic, confusion, fear in the air with buildings on fire and people dieing left, right and centre. It's not an environment for an organised thought out response.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 14, 2013)

They Gang Rape Hancock, really .


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

> Please, just stop everyone. This is not even worth arguing. Amazon Lily loses, even if it's only the Vice Admirals





> Momonga and Dalmatian could unequivocally treat Luffy at the war like the utmost fodder, and they did.


Fantasy,

Dalmatian and Momonga attacked Luffy one time each and then Kizaru showed up.

VA wankers are always exaggerating their prowess.



> As for Hancock? There's absolutely nothing in the manga that connotes to her being able to defeat multiple Vice Admirals at once. Momonga wasn't even allowed to retaliate, *yet he managed to keep his head and casually threaten her. *In an actual battle, Onigumo will put her in some cheap seastone cuffs as soon as she lets her guard down (I estimate a couple of seconds) and then they rape her. Literally.
> .


Crocodile kept his head against Doflamingo and Mihawk and casually threatenbing them..... in other words Momonga doing the same to Hancock does not mean jack shit.

Talking bout VA's as if they are amazing shit but every time we see a Shichibukai face VA's all tahts ever happened is they are defeated or even toyed with rather easily. (Doflamingo and Law).

doesnt even take a Shichibukai even mooks like Oars Jr and Bartolomew can do that to VA's


5 VA's by themselves would walk up to Amazon Lily and end up stuffed and mounted in Hancocks castle.
*
 A simple Zerg, few thousand Amazons all with haki with Hancock at the head and VA's die plain and simple.*


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## RF (Nov 14, 2013)

> Dalmatian and Momonga attacked Luffy one time each and then Kizaru showed up.



Momonga blitzed Luffy, cut him, Dalmatian blitzed Luffy, pierced him with a Shigan. He was fodder to them. 



> Crocodile kept his head against Doflamingo and Mihawk and casually threatenbing them..... in other words Momonga doing the same to Hancock does not mean jack shit.



Crocodile talks shit all the time. He's a complete idiot who thought could handle Whitebeard but was virtually seconds away from getting raped by the old man.

Momonga seems like a stern and collected guy, I doubt he was overestimating himself. 



> Talking bout VA's as if they are amazing shit but every time we see a Shichibukai face VA's all tahts ever happened is they are defeated or even toyed with rather easily. (Doflamingo and Law).
> 
> doesnt even take a Shichibukai even mooks like Oars Jr and Bartolomew can do that to VA's



Tell me one time the Elite Vice Admirals were made to look like a joke. Please do, I'm interested. Tell me where Onigumo, Momonga or Doberman looked like fodder to _anyone_.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

> Momonga blitzed Luffy, cut him, Dalmatian blitzed Luffy, pierced him with a Shigan. He was fodder to them.


We didnt see how Luffy would have responded to them or if he would even be able to because Kizaru showed up immediately, to conclude taht Luffy is nothing to them from taht is simply reaching at air,



Sakazuki said:


> Tell me one time the Elite Vice Admirals were made to look like a joke. Please do, I'm interested. Tell me where Onigumo, Momonga or Doberman looked like fodder to _anyone_.


Elite Vice Admiral is a phrase you just made up.

In reality, no evidence exists of any of those guys being much better than any other VA. Vergo was head of G5, while Momonga, a so called "Elite VA" is stationd in G1 with no apparent higher authority... how can you say he is any better than Vergo?

*This "Elite VA" wank is baseless*.

Besides it doesn't really matter, Seriously Amazon Lily is in the Clam Belt loaded with giant Sea Kings, *1 ship was noticed by sea kings despite its seastone protection for simply being in one place for too long (Momonga), teh moment the Buster Call begins its bombardment the Sea Kings would notice and wreck all the ships.*

even if you did think highly of VA's, a Buster call on Amazon Lily wouldn't even be feasible, let alone successful/ Pure VA wank is all i see.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

Buster Call low-mid diff. I don't see the Kuja surviving the bombardment (their two strongest, Sandersonia and Marigold, gave Base Luffy trouble, but then got stomped handily when he went Gear 2) and 5 Vice Admirals should be more than enough to beat Boa Hancock.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> Did EL Luffy destroy any of the ships? I recall one ship getting destroyed when Onguimo ordered it to be shot down and two of them crashing into one another when Sanji closed the gates.
> 
> Anyway perhaps the fact as a DF user she can't exactly swin towards the ships? Like I said if the marines were clever, they'd direct one ship to blow up the harbour and her ship.
> 
> Hancock still perhaps would be able to muster up a response, she's strong and capable enough to do so - the rest of them no. They'll be panic, confusion, fear in the air with buildings on fire and people dieing left, right and centre. It's not an environment for an organised thought out response.



If I'm not mistaken, and my memory serves me right. Luffy destroyed a ship while fighting Lucci on it. Technically, Luffy, Lucci and the other ship all participated in destroying the ship, but that does not mean Luffy couldn't have done it with his level 1 Gear 3.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Buster Call low-mid diff. I don't see the Kuja surviving the bombardment (their two strongest, Sandersonia and Marigold, gave Base Luffy trouble, but then got stomped handily when he went Gear 2) and 5 Vice Admirals should be more than enough to beat Boa Hancock.


How do you see the Bombardment surviving the Sea Kings taht are all over the clam belt and aren't deaf enough to not notice it?

Kuja will survive the Bombardment because it would be over soon after it begins.

At best the Amazons and Hancock will Zerg the VAs as they wash up a shore from the wreckage.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

My fellow VA's rape the shit out of AL. Onigumo or Doberman or both if necessary wreck Hancock and her fodder sisters would get brushed aside by a VA. That leaves the others to slice and dice. Onigumo tagged Marco. Call me when Hancock has done anything better the owning weak pacifista's.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> My fellow VA's rape the shit out of AL. Onigumo or Doberman or both if necessary wreck Hancock and her fodder sisters would get brushed aside by a VA. That leaves the others to slice and dice. Onigumo tagged Marco. Call me when Hancock has done anything better the owning weak pacifista's.



What about owning arguably the strongest VA with nothing but her presence?


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> My fellow VA's rape the shit out of AL. Onigumo or Doberman or both if necessary wreck Hancock and her fodder sisters would get brushed aside by a VA. That leaves the others to slice and dice. Onigumo tagged Marco. Call me when Hancock has done anything better the owning weak pacifista's.


It doesn't take a badass to cuff a guy from behind whose pops just distracted him with the heart attack of his life.

As for Hancock's badassery i will take Sengoku's word for it, much better then the so called "feats" you people trumpet to support a class of character that has proven itself to be nothing but fodder whenever they get the chance.

The VA's wouldn't even make it to Hancock's shoes, the sea kings will see to their misguided buster call before they get the chance.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

If it was so easy to kill of Hancock and everyone on Amazon Lilly, I'm pretty sure the WG would have done so by now especially after her actions at MF. But guess what? It will take them a lot of casualties to do so.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> How do you see the Bombardment surviving the Sea Kings taht are all over the clam belt and aren't deaf enough to not notice it?


You mean those Sea Kings that Rayleigh swam past (even killed one) and that Momonga casually sliced up for dinner?


Slenderman said:


> My fellow VA's rape the shit out of AL. Onigumo or Doberman or both if necessary wreck Hancock and her fodder sisters would get brushed aside by a VA. That leaves the others to slice and dice. Onigumo tagged Marco.* Call me when Hancock has done anything better the owning weak pacifista's*.


Well, some folks try and claim that Hancock can beat an Admiral...does that count?


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Buster Call Low Diff? Seriously? We're talking about arguably the 3rd strongest warlord here. She would probably knock out most of the 800 soldiers you're so proud of with her Cotc. Then proceed to pwn the VAs in a 1 vs 1 fight comfortably while her small army keep the rest busy.
> 
> Those VAs are always going to be VAs, if they have gotten stronger at all, they would'v been nominated to admirals by now. That being said, Momonga had to stab himself to not get owned by her presence a lone, imagine what would'v happened to him if she actually attacked and wanted him dead.
> 
> The girl pwned sentomaru while sitting on her snake laughing, was ready to engage in a fight with Aokiji, an admiral just for touching Luffy in front of her.  Couple VAs got nothing on her, like I said, the marines will be looking for 5 new VAs to replace the ones who went into a suicidal mission.



Ready to engage in a fight means that you have a lot of courage. If DD almost got wrecked by Aokiji what makes Hancock any better? Croc was ready to fight WB who would have owned him like utmost fodder. Getting ready to fight people or trash talking them doesn't make you strong. Ace could trash talk Akainu though the latter is clearly stronger then Ace by leaps and bounds.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> What about owning arguably the strongest VA with nothing but her presence?



Mommanga is not the strongest. No one here believes that but your saying that to try to make your claim sound right. Firstly he couldn't even fight her or else he'd be in trouble.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> It doesn't take a badass to cuff a guy from behind whose pops just distracted him with the heart attack of his life.
> 
> As for Hancock's badassery i will take Sengoku's word for it, much better then the so called "feats" you people trumpet to support a class of character that has proven itself to be nothing but fodder whenever they get the chance.
> 
> The VA's wouldn't even make it to Hancock's shoes, the sea kings will see to their misguided buster call before they get the chance.



Those little fishes would do nothing.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> You mean those Sea Kings that Rayleigh swam past (even killed one) and that Momonga casually sliced up for dinner?



Momonga defeated 1, most ships that go into the Clam Belt are ambushed by many and destroyed.

You know Rayleigh is strong because he doesnt need to hide behind Sea Stone covering to go into the Clam Belt.

*The same cant be said for the so called badass named Momonga.*

But you know who you can say taht about?, *Hancock,* BAM!!!


Momong only had to fight one because his sea stone protected the ship from being noticed by too many, in the scenario of a Buster Call the VA's literally wipe away that protections usefulness.


Furthermore Rayleigh >>>> Buster Call.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> You mean those Sea Kings that Rayleigh swam past (even killed one) and that Momonga casually sliced up for dinner?
> 
> Well, some folks try and claim that Hancock can beat an Admiral...does that count?



Harahui said that she could give admirals extreme difficulty but she's a troll. Apparently wanting to fight an admiral means that you're strong though with Croc that's clearly not the case.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Those little fishes would do nothing.


Read teh manga, the Marines weren't even able to travel into the Clam Belt without Sea Stone allowing them to "hide" (as long as they didn't stay in one place) so that the "little fishes" wouldn't notice and destroy them.

Those little fishes would do enough.

It is impossible for 10 marine ships to bombard anything on teh Clam Belt, at least not in the world in which this manga takes place.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> Momonga defeated 1, most ships that go into the Clam Belt are ambushed by many and destroyed.
> 
> You know Rayleigh is strong because he doesnt need to hide behind Sea Stone covering to go into the Clam Belt.
> 
> ...



You haven't even seen any of them fight all out so that's pretty baseless.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> Read teh manga, the Marines weren't even able to travel into the Clam Belt without Sea Stone allowing them to "hide" (as long as they didn't stay in one place) so that the "little fishes" wouldn't destroy them.
> 
> Those little fishes would do enough.



It's to protect the fodders. Like Momanga showed he casually owns them so that point is moot.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> Momonga defeated 1, most ships that go into the Clam Belt are ambushed by many and destroyed.


And you're assuming that the *ten battleships*, with enough firepower to turn an island to ash, filled with other Marines and DF Users (you think the Marines will send only fodder to an island that houses one of their strongest Warlords), wouldn't do anything to the Sea Kings, and that the Sea Kings would want to keep going to the surface so they could get killed...why?


hehey said:


> But you know who you can say taht about?, *Hancock,* BAM!!!


I can say that five Vice Admirals would be more than enough to take out Hancock. Sound fair?


Slenderman said:


> *You haven't even seen any of them fight all out so that's pretty baseless*.





Slenderman said:


> It's to protect the fodders. Like Momanga showed he casually owns them so that point is moot.


Seems reasonable to me.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> It's to protect the fodders. Like Momanga showed he casually owns them so that point is moot.



1 of them, so what?, Luffy defeated a Sea King when he first left his Island.

if VA's were enough to protect battleships from all the sea kings that normally assault ships in the Clam Belt then the marines would have been able to travel there before Vegapunk's invention, simply would need to bring a VA.

Thats not the case.

Weve seen what happens when unprotected ships got to the clam belt when the Strawhats tried it, a bunch of giant ones appear immediately and they had to run, and Like Momonga, Luiffy could also defeat Sea Kings at the time.

If Momonga was such a badass with Sea Kings then that ship he had wouldn't have had to be so quite and careful to avoid bringing attention to itself from them when it was merely standing still in front of Amazon Lily, but nah he knew he would get  wrecked.

But nah, keep living in fantasy land.

A Buster Call on Amazon Lily or anywhere else im teh Clam Belt is sheer stupidity,


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## Freechoice (Nov 14, 2013)

As much as I like Hancock, AL has no chance.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hancock > Doflamingo


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> I can say that five Vice Admirals would be more than enough to take out Hancock. Sound fair?
> .



VA's have thus far proven to be fodder to Shichubukai and characters far weaker than Shichibukai, so no, that does not sound fair at all.


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## Orca (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> VA's have thus far proven to be fodder to Shichubukai and characters far weaker than Shichibukai, so no, that does not sound fair at all.



You can't generalize shichibukai > VA. Vergo would beat the crap out of Moria and buggy.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 14, 2013)

Wait, what is this ? Did I see someone saying that Calm Belt can even make a VA give a darn ? OH DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH ! VA's can kill any monster in the Calm Belt with one shot . The situation is not good for Hancock and her companions it's basically Hancock vs 3 VA's and after 4 VA's(The VA thas showed up would be the one to fodderize Hancock's Sister . One VA would be cutting fishes just to prove the point that it doesn't take 5 VA's, actually the fourth VA could even take a nap because 3 VA's vs Hancock is more than enough) .  Strawberry,  Yamakaji, Doberman, Onigumo and  Momonga can solo this with the utmost ease, there's no need of the ships .


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> VA's have thus far proven to be fodder to Shichubukai and characters far weaker than Shichibukai, so no, that does not sound fair at all.


Like Slender said, we haven't seen the Vice Admirals go full out yet, especially the ones who fought in the Whitbeard War (two managed to make mincemeat out of Luffy). Btw, Onigumo managed to tag Marco with Sea Stone handcuffs. So is Marco now fodder because he got tagged by fodder?


Slenderman said:


> Harahui said that she could give admirals extreme difficulty but she's a troll. Apparently wanting to fight an admiral means that you're strong though with Croc that's clearly not the case.



This has been going on for awhile, believe me.


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## Freechoice (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Like Slender said, we haven't seen the Vice Admirals go full out yet, especially the ones who fought in the Whitbeard War (two managed to make mincemeat out of Luffy). Btw, *Onigumo managed to tag Marco with Sea Stone handcuffs. So is Marco now fodder because he got tagged by fodder?*
> 
> 
> This has been going on for awhile, believe me.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

The Manga establishes that Sea Kings in teh Clam Belt simply zerg and destroy most ships taht go there it a no mans land. The manga then establishes that the Marines only gained the capability to traverse the Clam Belt due to Vegapunks tech hiding them from all the Sea Kings. Teh Manga then establishes taht they still have to be careful around teh clam belt cause the Sea Kings will still; notice them if tehy do the wrong thing and draw attention *like stay in one place* (Momonga at Amazon Lily)

And yet somehow, VA fans think that a Buster Call, which is 10 Battleships in one spot bombing the shit out of something. can successfully take place in the Clam Belt and not be instantly destroyed because *VA's will handle it*?, when even VA's have been shown to hide behind Sea Stine when going to the Clam Belt?

Shockingly, it seems that VA Wank has been completely revived.

I have no further words for you people and good day.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> 1 of them, so what?, Luffy defeated a Sea King when he first left his Island.
> 
> if VA's were enough to protect battleships from all the sea kings that normally assault ships in the Clam Belt then the marines would have been able to travel there before Vegapunk's invention, simply would need to bring a VA.
> 
> ...



Calm belt sea king>EB sea king It says in the manga that the strongest sea kings live in the calm belt.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

```

```



Slenderman said:


> Calm belt sea king>EB sea king It says in the manga that the strongest sea kings live in the calm belt.



Fair Enough.

But i don't want to hear about what "it says in the manga" from a guy that believes something like a Buster Call can somehow successfully take place in the Clam Belt  even though it goes against everything taht the manga has established about it (*and about  the Marines relationship to it*).


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 14, 2013)

The problem is that the Ships aren't always with someone as strong as a freaking VA, of course they're going to get crushed and eaten but I already said that the best tatics is to not bombard anything, one VA stays killing anything that shows up while 3 fight Hancock and one destroys the rest of Amazon Lilly .


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## mr sean66 (Nov 14, 2013)

4 vas gang up on Hancock 1 va and all the rest if the soldiers destroy everything else.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> The Manga establishes that Sea Kings in teh Clam Belt simply zerg and destroy most ships taht go there it a no mans land. The manga then establishes that the Marines only gained the capability to traverse the Clam Belt due to Vegapunks tech hiding them from all the Sea Kings. Teh Manga then establishes taht they still have to be careful around teh clam belt cause the Sea Kings will still; notice them if tehy do the wrong thing and draw attention *like stay in one place* (Momonga at Amazon Lily)
> 
> And yet somehow, VA fans think that a Buster Call, which is 10 Battleships in one spot bombing the shit out of something. can successfully take place in the Clam Belt and not be instantly destroyed because *VA's will handle it*?, when even VA's have been shown to hide behind Sea Stine when going to the Clam Belt?
> 
> ...


I see...Marco is fodder because he got tagged by fodder (Onigumo), and thus, would have no chance against someone like Hancock...it all adds up now...ALL of it.


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## hehey (Nov 14, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> I see...Marco is fodder because he got tagged by fodder (Onigumo), and thus, would have no chance against someone like Hancock...it all adds up now...ALL of it.



This is just trolling now, Marco isn't fodder just cause he got cuffed from behind when he was distracted by his Pop's heart attack, *no matter who it was that did the cuffing.*, Jango couldve done it and it wouldn't take away from hit at all/.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> This is just trolling now, Marco isn't fodder just cause he got cuffed from behind when he was distracted by his Pop's heart attack, *no matter who it was that did the cuffing.*, Jango couldve done it and it wouldn't take away from hit at all/.


But Vice Admirals (one rank below Admiral) are apparently fodder, so that means Marco should have been able to avoid getting cuffed by fodder, right?
We haven't seen the Buster Call Vice Admirals go full out, so it's very doubtful Hancock could take on several of them at all at once. And how would the rest of the Kuja handle them? Their two strongest, Sandersonia and Marigold, got taken out easily by Gear 2 Luffy, yet Momonga and Dalmatian managed to intercept him and prevent him from getting to Ace with little effort.


hehey said:


> *Jango* couldve done it and it wouldn't take away from hit at all/.


----------



## November (Nov 14, 2013)

AL lose             .


----------



## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Ready to engage in a fight means that you have a lot of courage. If DD almost got wrecked by Aokiji what makes Hancock any better? Croc was ready to fight WB who would have owned him like utmost fodder. Getting ready to fight people or trash talking them doesn't make you strong. Ace could trash talk Akainu though the latter is clearly stronger then Ace by leaps and bounds.





Slenderman said:


> Mommanga is not the strongest. No one here believes that but your saying that to try to make your claim sound right. Firstly he couldn't even fight her or else he'd be in trouble.



It's awesome how you replied to one point, and ignore the rest.

And no, I'm not claiming that to prove my point. I've seen countless posts of people believing Momonga to be the strongest VA.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

The Hancock underestimation in here is unbelievable.


----------



## Mihawk (Nov 14, 2013)

^So it's underestimation to think that Hancock can't take on 5 VAs by herself?



I am stating the contrary. This thread proves that Hancock is badly wanked and highly overestimated.


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## Typhon (Nov 14, 2013)

If we're talking about Aokiji being with them then of course the buster call wins. If not, I don't see how they beat Amazon Lily. Those thousands of soldiers won't match the amazons who we know can enhance their attacks with haki.

I don't see what's so far fetched about Hancock taking on 5 VAs when she made a joke out of one and we know these VAs are featless. Assuming they're stronger then Luffy means nothing since Hancock could one shot him too.

Cannon fire has been dealt with already. Kuja arrows could easily stop them. This buster call low diff (without Aokiji) is BS. 5 warships solo an entire island of warriors? lol


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 14, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> ^So it's underestimation to think that Hancock can't take on 5 VAs by herself?
> 
> 
> 
> I am stating the contrary. This thread proves that Hancock is badly wanked and highly overestimated.



FIVE ? YOU DON'T NEED FIVE VA's to FUCK Hancock, you need about 3 VA's .


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## KiddLaw92 (Nov 14, 2013)

This is a very close match but I would give it to Hancock with extremely high difficulty. I have no idea what you people are talking about with low difficulty. Hancock can probably beat a VA with the same difficulty as Donflamingo. They would need to send an admiral to deal with her and her hax.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

hehey said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



Well sorry bud but that's my opinion and you can't  change that.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> It's awesome how you replied to one point, and ignore the rest.
> 
> And no, I'm not claiming that to prove my point. I've seen countless posts of people believing Momonga to be the strongest VA.



Please show me them and repeat your point so that I can address it.


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## tanman (Nov 14, 2013)

Why is this thread still alive?
Sakazuki said all that needed to be said in his second post.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 14, 2013)

Buster call on an island in the calm belt is complicated.

When the Kuja Pirates want to travel they use those huge snakes to ward off sea Kings (completely)
Depends on how much invisibility the Sea stone actually gives. Besides, all the explosions would cause the sea kings to keep their distance anyway.

The average Kuja is stronger than the average marine fodder. But Buster calls also have a lot of Captains who can handle Kuja fodder.
Boa Hancock can take out most men quite easily. Also there's the factor of warding off cannon balls.

Still the fact is Boa needs her SB status to protect AL from the marines.
I'd say Buster call wins.


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## punisher223 (Nov 14, 2013)

Admiral Kizaru said:


> You realise that for a Buster Call the marines don't actually go and invade the island? They'll be ten warships bombarding every single thing moving on the island without any mercy from the safety of the waters surrounding it. Most her army will perish before she can even think of any kind of response.
> 
> Baron Tamago is right. Low difficulty.



  ^
This, maybe lily will go down Mid-diff if they have a lot of prep, but the Island is going down quite handily


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## Rob (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, considering the whole island is fodder, bar Hancock, I don't see why 5 VA's with Warships couldn't do the trick. 

Onigumo is > Marco (Canon feats ) And Marco>Hancock


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> ^So it's underestimation to think that Hancock can't take on 5 VAs by herself?
> 
> 
> 
> I am stating the contrary. This thread proves that Hancock is badly wanked and highly overestimated.



You're talking as if Hancock is going to take them all 5 heads on. Those Vice Admirals you all so proud off were held off by New World pirates that current Luffy can probably KO in couple minutes.  No Vice Admiral was shown to engage against the likes of Marco,Jozu and Vista on their own (at least I don't remember it) because they know they're getting owned by these three. 

Hancock has a small army behind her, she's going to knock most of those marines using her CotC then proceed to pwn her opponents while her tribe holds the other VAs until she's done with whoever she's fighting. Don't give me that crap about a VA pwning her whole tribe in a minute or two, they were held off by weak Pirates during MF, and if you're going to argue that they're not as weak as I think, then sure, you might be right, bu they hold no candle to the likes of current Luffy.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

Good job  Rob here's a pic His face is priceless. Also this is for Lawliet and hehey you were saying about how the VA's didn't engage them?


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## Rob (Nov 14, 2013)

Onigumo is putting his bitch in her place.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You're talking as if Hancock is going to take them all 5 heads on. Those Vice Admirals you all so proud off were held off by New World pirates that current Luffy can probably KO in couple minutes.  No Vice Admiral was shown to engage against the likes of Marco,Jozu and Vista on their own (at least I don't remember it) because they know they're getting owned by these three.
> 
> *Hancock has a small army behind her*, she's going to knock most of those marines using her CotC then proceed to pwn her opponents while her tribe holds the other VAs until she's done with whoever she's fighting. Don't give me that crap about a VA pwning her whole tribe in a minute or two, they were held off by weak Pirates during MF, and if you're going to argue that they're not as weak as I think, then sure, you might be right, bu they hold no candle to the likes of current Luffy.


You do know that their two strongest warriors got roflstomped by Pre TS G2 Luffy, right?


RobLucciRapes said:


> Well, considering the whole island is fodder, bar Hancock, I don't see why 5 VA's with Warships couldn't do the trick.
> 
> Onigumo is > Marco (Canon feats ) And Marco>Hancock


The Power Ranking System in OP: Nami (secretly the strongest in OP) > Stairs and Directions > Zoro > lolcuffs > the rest.


Slenderman said:


> Good job  Rob here's a pic His face is priceless.


Canon feats.


punisher223 said:


> ^
> This, maybe lily will go down Mid-diff if they have a lot of prep, but the Island is going down quite handily


Seems pretty reasonable to me.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

These guys saying that VA's didn't engage the commanders. Also Lawliet it's conjecture to say that they fought the WB allies because we didn't even see a full all out fleshed out fight. It was only a teaser. Onigumo makes Maroc's run in fear. Also don't tell me that Hancock didn't get touched in the war because neither did Onigumo but he still has the one Marco feat which is better then all that she has shown.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Nov 14, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You're talking as if Hancock is going to take them all 5 heads on. Those Vice Admirals you all so proud off were held off by New World pirates that current Luffy can probably KO in couple minutes.  No Vice Admiral was shown to engage against the likes of Marco,Jozu and Vista on their own (at least I don't remember it) because they know they're getting owned by these three.
> 
> Hancock has a small army behind her, she's going to knock most of those marines using her CotC then proceed to pwn her opponents while her tribe holds the other VAs until she's done with whoever she's fighting. Don't give me that crap about a VA pwning her whole tribe in a minute or two, they were held off by weak Pirates during MF, and if you're going to argue that they're not as weak as I think, then sure, you might be right, bu they hold no candle to the likes of current Luffy.



And you're talking like the VA's will magically appear one after the other in some kind of gauntlet setup, right in front of Hancock. I mean for what reason would any marine leave the ships and head to the island where the bombing is taking place?

This isn't 5 VA's vs Boa Hancock, it's Amazon Lily vs a Buster Call - they're two seperate things. A buster call is more than just five VA's, it's *10* warships shelling indiscriminately at a rapid rate of fire from the waters surrounding an island. It doesn't matter if she's indivually stronger than any Vice Admiral, if by the time she's able to respond the entire island is up in flames.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

^ There's also the captains to boot.


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## Mihawk (Nov 14, 2013)

> You're talking as if Hancock is going to take them all 5 heads on.



Your right, they don't have to. They just needa put distance between their ships from AL and concentrate their bombardment. Hancock can't swim, so she can't get there, and even if she somehow does, there is nothing that prevents the Vice Admirals from getting to the ship that Hancock is raiding as back up, using Geppo. No doubt they would go to where she is, as she is the only reason why the island wouldn't get steamrolled right off the bat, making her the primary priority. It's actually worst if she tries to take out the ships one by one, as she would be isolating herself from the island, and walking straight into a trap scenario where the VAs can just join in on where she is and destroy her. 



> Those Vice Admirals you all so proud off were held off by *New World pirates that current Luffy can probably KO in couple minutes.*



Baseless. Your whole argument falls apart when you cannot prove that any of those NW Pirate Captains are pushovers to Current Luffy. The fact that Vergo & Smoker were stronger than Sanji, proves that they were not at all that much below Luffy, even if Luffy is stronger than Vergo/Smoker. The fact that the VAs & NW Pirate Captains had some equality to them already dislodges the faulty assumption that Luffy can simply steamroll these Captains. 




> No Vice Admiral was shown to engage against the likes of Marco,Jozu and Vista on their own (at least I don't remember it) because they know they're getting owned by these three.



Since when was Hancock as big of a threat as someone like Vista, let alone Marco & Jozu? This is the overestimation I was talking about. And when Onigumo can take advantage of an off guard Marco, someone far stronger than Hancock, what makes you think that if they ganged up on Hancock, they wouldn't be exploiting openings left and right to kill her?



> Hancock has a small army behind her, she's going to knock most of those marines using her CotC then proceed to pwn her opponents while her tribe holds the other VAs until she's done with whoever she's fighting.



These Amazon fodder are literally doing jack to the VAs when the two sisters whom are far superior to them, were getting dominated by PRE SKIP LUFFY. 



> Don't give me that crap about a VA pwning her whole tribe in a minute or two, they were held off by weak Pirates during MF,



Weak Pirates? Those were NW Captains allied To WB's crew. 
And yes, they are destroying the Amazon fodder. As Slenderman stated, there are also numerous Marine captains to accompany the Buster Call. They will be more than efficient in holding off the tribes or the sisters, so the VAs don't even need to concentrate on the fodder. They just needa gang up on Hancock. 



> and if you're going to argue that they're not as weak as I think, then sure, you might be right, *but they hold no candle to the likes of current Luffy.*



baseless once again. 

Your entire post is riddled with personal opinion and conjecture.


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Of course my whole post is based on nothing but opinion, that's what everyone else is doing, unless you can prove that a buster call is going to destroy Amazon Lilly low difficulty, then your posts are nothing but opinion as well.

The fact that Luffy just defeated a veteran legend once he got super mad proves that those NW newbies got nothing on Luffy, although that's besides the point. and that Pic does not prove that VAs engaged against the top 3 commanders, it only proves that they showed their faces to them once they were distracted, show me a panel of them engaging one of the top 3 commanders in a straight up fight like the admirals did, you won't find such a panel because those VAs were held off by some weak pirates. The VAs wanking is just unbelievable, you guys can keep up your hopes with these VAs, but anyone up there with Luffy and Law will just pwn the shit out of them in a straight one vs one fight. 

Hancock's strongest warriors could'v gotten stronger during the time skip + there are a lot of other warriors at Hancock's side. The marines will probably be outnumbered once Hancock knock most of them with her Haki. Anyways, I'm out of here, this is pointless.


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## Mihawk (Nov 14, 2013)

> Of course my whole post is based on nothing but opinion, that's what everyone else is doing, unless you can prove that a buster call is going to destroy Amazon Lilly low difficulty, then your posts are nothing but opinion as well.



That's copping out. There's a difference between pure opinion that is not backed up well, and opinion with some basis. The difference lies in the strength of the argument backing up the opinion, or there would be no point or merit in debating. 

Also, I never said that I thought they'd low diff the island. I just said that the Buster Call would most likely succeed. 




> The fact that Luffy just defeated a veteran legend once he got super mad proves that those NW newbies got nothing on Luffy, although that's besides the point.



A veteran legend who was long inactive and supposedly retired. DCJ does not speak for the active NW Allied Captains who were about as strong as some of WB's lower Commanders, unless you think that every single NW Captain allied under WB is as strong as Don Chinjao, which is just silly. 



> and that Pic does not prove that VAs engaged against the top 3 commanders, it only proves that they showed their faces to them once they were distracted, show me a panel of them engaging one of the top 3 commanders in a straight up fight like the admirals did, you won't find such a panel because those VAs were held off by some weak pirates.



If they can take advantage of an off guard Marco, someone much stronger than Hancock, what makes you think that when several Vice Admirals manage to isolate Hancock(as you said she can just go on one of their ships), they won't be killing her from every direction?

Also, once again your argument falls apart, since your comparing apples and oranges here. Just because the VAs cannot individually hold their own against the Top 3 WB Commanders, does not mean that they can't gangbang and utterly destroy Hancock. Hancock is not on the same level as Marco, Jozu, Vista, etc. 

Those VAs were held off by strong NW Captains, not weak pirates. Weak Pirates is the term you use to describe the Amazonian fodder.





> The VAs wanking is just unbelievable, you guys can keep up your hopes with these VAs, but anyone up there with Luffy and Law will just pwn the shit out of them in a straight one vs one fight.



Baseless. Your conjecture that is not backed up by alot of weight. 

Luffy couldn't "pwn the shit out of" someone like Vergo or Smoker, whom are both stronger than Sanji, most likely. 

Also, this isn't a thread that says: "Hancock VS _______", so it is not a one on one individual fight. It seems like your not really concentrating, because the thread is "Buster Call VS AL". 







> Hancock's strongest warriors could'v gotten stronger during the time skip



Baseless once again. 

Also, even if they did, you can't quantify their rate of growth.



> + there are a lot of other warriors at Hancock's side.


There are also plenty of Marine Captains and other ranked officers such as Rear Admirals and such under the Vice Admirals that will take part. 



> The marines will probably be outnumbered once Hancock knock most of them with her Haki



They are on ships far from the actual island itself. It is a bombardment. They don't have to go on the island themselves. And if Hancock tries to hijack a ship, she gets ganged up on by the Vice Admirals, playing into their trap. 



> Anyways, I'm out of here, this is pointless.



It's alright.
As much as I hate to say this phrase and saying, I'll say it, as its appropriate.

Concession accepted.


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## Slenderman (Nov 14, 2013)

@ Lawliet Rage quit. Did you see those ''weak pirates'' go all out. That legend was old and didn't even have is strongest form of his head. Your post is chock full of wank of Luffy and conjecture.


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## Shanks (Nov 14, 2013)

This will depend on a lot of factors and is not as simple as most people think.

Firstly, we need to take into consideration that Amazon Lilly is in the calm belt and the girls can destroy the ship’s sea-king immunity to allow sea kings to be involved.

Secondly, we do not know how strong Hancock are, but we know that standard vice Admiral haki is not strong enough to withstand Hancock Mero Mero no Mi because Momo needed to stab his own knees distract him from getting turned into stone.

Thirdly, Hancock’s sister may not be much, but they are more than capable of using poison to take out all folder marines. Hancock can also murder folder marines with CotC or Mero Mero no Mi.

And then we need to take into consideration whether Hancock is willing to use the girls as Kamakazi to distract the VA so she can fight them 1 on 1.

There’s also the issue of whether there’s knowledge. With Knowledge, Amazon lilly can prepare more weapons and traps to destroy and sink the warship before they reach the island.

I believe that in order for the Marines to win, they’ll need to bring all the female VAs… having 5 male VAs will lead to marines all turning into stones.


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## Rob (Nov 14, 2013)

Does someone here think that Hancock>5 Strong VA's?


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## Tiger (Nov 14, 2013)

This is kind of a bogus thread altogether.

The Seaking Momonga killed wasn't anywhere near the size of the massive, hard-to-believe Seakings we saw that could talk to Shirahoshi. I think there's a disconnect here with some people. Part of the problem is Oda keeps using the same word "Seaking" to describe four or five incredibly varied levels of sea monster.

A trained Shirahoshi > A Buster Call sans Admiral

But the random Seakings in and around Kuja? no. 

That said, it's not like it's just a walk in the park for a VA to dive down into the Calm Belt and hunt for a Seaking. If a Buster Call began bombarding Kuja after destroying their galleons to avoid retaliation, and all the Seakings in the surrounding area decided to fight instead of flee - the VA's would lose a lot of crewmembers, and their ship(s) would be heavily damaged. They'd have to turn and focus on the Seakings - don't talk about it like they could just effortlessly one-shot them without thinking about it.

The problem for Kuja is Hancock is going to be completely useless in this fight until it's far too late. Some of the Hancock supporters are acting like they're all in a big, white danger room facility where she's given all the opportunity she wants to counter-attack...no. They're going to napalm her island while she can do nothing but watch. She'll survive that, along with a few lucky Amazons, then it'll be her vs 5 VA's, and she hasn't shown the capability to deal with that.

I don't think anyone short of Admiral-level could. Especially if it's the "elite" VA's we've grown accustomed to seeing over and over like Momonga, Onigumo, Doberman, etc.

Buster Call wins mid-difficulty.

The reason it's mid, is because they'll have to take care of Seakings attacking them, and that does take time, then they will eventually have to go ashore to kill or apprehend Hancock, and their complete safety isn't guaranteed. No one short of an Admiral defeats Hancock low-difficulty, because every single attack she uses causes irrepairable and crippling injury.

A couple of those VA's are leaving that island forever maimed, but they win handily aside from that.


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## Dunno (Nov 14, 2013)

Hancock seemed far superior to Momonga, so if the other VAs are as strong as him, she should be able to solo them in a straight up fight. They could just sit far out in the sea and shoot from afar though, so it comes down to if he has any way to get that far out. I guess she could shoot down the cannonballs with her arrows though, as she's done before. .


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## Lawliet (Nov 14, 2013)

Wait, what makes you guys think that the VAs are going to say on their ships the whole time. They did go on land during the Ohara massacre, and they did go on land during EL.

If they go on land, which will they do (probably), then they are at a disadvantage cuz it's the Kuja's land and they know it better than the Marines + all the traps that might be there + having to face Hancock face to face which will only result in one outcome.

If they stay on their ships the whole time and Hancock has no way to counter their attacks AT ALL, which is unbelievably stupid to think that, then sure, they win. Other than that, I don't really see them winning at all, unless Oda is going to surprise us with the elite of the VAs and end up making them as strong as the likes of Hancock and Doflamingo, which is very unlikely at all.


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## Mihawk (Nov 15, 2013)

> Wait, what makes you guys think that the VAs are going to say on their ships the whole time.



Because it is a Buster Call and this is assuming there is no CIS or PIS as there was in the EL arc. 

Because it would be stupid and disadvantageous for them to go into the island where they would be walking into enemy territory, while it is more favourable for them to remain on their ships.

They underestimated the SHs in EL, which is what led to their defeat, aka their complacent approach. 

Also EL was a Government island so they knew it well, whereas no man was ever allowed to go on AL, therefore they have no knowledge and it would be stupid of them to simply go into AL without razing it from a distance instead. 



> They did go on land during the Ohara massacre, and they did go on land during EL.



They went on land in Ohara to evacuate the people, and as I said before they are familiar with EL. 




> If they go on land, which will they do (probably), then they are at a disadvantage cuz it's the Kuja's land and they know it better than the Marines + all the traps that might be there + having to face Hancock face to face which will only result in one outcome.



Exactly, then why would they go there? Why would they willingly walk into enemy territory. EL & Ohara are starkly different than AL when it comes to the marines' invasion. This would be enemy territory, not just a simple island to burn. 



> If they stay on their ships the whole time and Hancock has no way to counter their attacks AT ALL, which is unbelievably stupid to think that, then sure, they win.



Why is it stupid? Tell me then, how will Hancock counter their attacks when she and her people have no way to get to the ships if they keep a fair distance between them and the island. 



> Other than that, I don't really see them winning at all, unless Oda is going to surprise us with the elite of the VAs and end up making them as strong as the likes of Hancock and Doflamingo, which is very unlikely at all.



As I said, the VAs themselves don't need to be at an individual level of Hancock or Doflamingo to do so. 

The only way Hancock could counter them, is if she herself went aboard one of their ships, and assuming she does, she gets murdered when the VAs gang up on her, when they keep close distance between each of their ships, which they do in the manga, during a Buster Call. 

The Kuja could slice up the canonballs and hail fire with their swordsmanship, as well as use their arrows to stop some of the canon balls, but the overwhelming assault of a Buster Call would be too much for them as it would be spread throughout the island, and not just one location. Of course, Hancock can also use Slave Arrows to take care of some of the canonballs, but as I said they aren't just firing onto one area. Sooner or later, the island would be sacked, and the Kuja can't do anything about it, unless they try to seek out the ships, where they would be sealing their own defeat.


You can alter the scenario all you want propose all the "what ifs", but it doesn't really change much.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Lawliet, you're acting like they have no choice but to go on land.

No, they're going to respect their opponent - sit back and nuke the island until nothing's moving before going ashore. To do otherwise would be stupid against this opponent.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 15, 2013)

Enies lobby Buster Call was silly as hell.
You'd think they'd want to confirm it twice or thrice before destroying the Judicial Island.


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## Lawliet (Nov 15, 2013)

Law said:


> Lawliet, you're acting like they have no choice but to go on land.
> 
> No, they're going to respect their opponent - sit back and nuke the island until nothing's moving before going ashore. To do otherwise would be stupid against this opponent.



Well, in an imaginary thread like this, it's fair enough to imagine as many scenarios as possible. Hancock loses in the scenario my fellow posters just mentioned, but she doesn't in mine. We have no idea how such an assault is going to happen. The marines on board might be forced to move their assault on land due to the many SeaKings attacking, many other possibilities , besides, doesn't that island have citizens on it? Shouldn't they go on land and help the citizens just like Fuji is doing at Dressrosa right now? I could be wrong though. 

@Luke, I get what you're trying to say, but as I mentioned above, we have no idea how such an assault is going to happen. Countless possibilities, countless scenarios. Fights don't work the same way a program does (Anti virus for example), you don't just order it to do something and if it qualifies it just does. Little things can change the outcome (Which is why I like HunterXHunter). It's also fair enough to assume that such barriers/details that could change the outcome might not occur, but it's also fair enough to have that possibility. 

Besides, if we think about it logically, 10 Ships? how many cannons are those? let's say 40 in total.  Aren't there way more than 40 Kuja pirate/tribe warrior in there? Countering those cannons shouldn't be a problem especially for Haki users such as the Kuja Tribe as seen where Rayleigh used little bullets to counter cannon balls. (And No I did not just compare the Kuja pirates to Rayleigh). 

Besides, we never really got to see how strong Hancock is when she goes all out.  5 VAs ganging her won't be as easy as you make it sound to be. Momonga couldn't even do a thing but to stab himself in her presence, she could'v taken that moment and kicked his face to stone. Other VAs are not excluded from this, they might not even have the strength to attack her, except Doberman and Onigume probably, they seem more like Akainu. 

Hancock has shown the ability to disable opponent with nothing but a free hit (similar to Law in a way), A hesitation by one of the VAs due to her beauty means instant defeat. I know, baseless, but again, most of our debate is baseless, nothing but opinions, some are supported by "facts" and some are not.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Your scenario involves the VA's doing something really stupid.

So no, it's not really "fair to say".

Out in the water, they're untouchable.

On the island, they have to actually be in harm's way.

As much as the posters on this forum would have us all believe that the VA's are magical and impervious to harm and could just walk over and steamroll the entire island nation of Amazons, you could never in a hundred years convince me they would be so damn flippant with their own safety when they had fucking Battleships with massive cannons to do the work for them.

They wouldn't go ashore until they'd blasted the place good.


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## Lawliet (Nov 15, 2013)

Like I said , I don't really think stopping the cannon balls is such an impossible task due to the fact that most of them are Haki users and they outnumber the cannons themselves (Not sure about this part though).

That being said, The VAs are probably going to consider going on land if they see that their cannon assault is failing. 

Plus, aren't there citizens that needs to be protected? which means they'll have to leave their ships and actually step on land to protect those citizens? Correct me if I'm wrong, not sure if that's true.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Citizens don't get protected from a Buster Call.

All citizens on Kuja are Amazons, anyway. It's a nation of warriors.


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## Extravlad (Nov 15, 2013)

Hancock is one the most overrated character in One Piece.

According to those fanboys she would even lolstomps the Ohara Buster Call with Kuzan and Sakazuki lol.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Hancock is one the most overrated character in One Piece.
> 
> According to those fanboys she would even lolstomps the Ohara Buster Call with Kuzan and Sakazuki lol.



Baseless statement here.

There's a very large gap between being defensive when people say Hancock would be effortlessly wiped out and having the psychotic confidence to say she could stomp a Buster Call that included future Admirals.

When you're trying to show how crazy some people are, it doesn't help your cause when you exaggerate so heavily yourself.


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## Extravlad (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't exaggerate rofl, Hancock fanboys are the worst here with Law's.
She has absolutely 0 fuckin feats, destroying a pacifista is not impressive.

Nothing in the manga put Hancock above the current M3.


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

I will not be surprised at all if Hancock's 2 sis & Hancock's hex ability is enough to beat 5 VA's at the same time.

So far no VA (off course not Garp lol) has shown to be a very strong fighter (even people like Bart can fodderize one). On top of that Hancock has a very very good feats against a VA.


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## Tiger (Nov 15, 2013)

Yeah, I don't think you understand what the word "exaggerate" means.


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## Naisutime (Nov 15, 2013)

Going with the Buster Call.

Amazon Lily has literally no way of challenging them before they go ashore, and assuming a no CIS/PIS, the island is gonna be a smoker ruin when that happens. And it's not like a Buster Call consist of fodder and 5 VA's even if they decided to to land before the island is sufficiently reckt.


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## Shizune (Nov 15, 2013)

I don't think a Buster Call would even be an advantageous method of attacking Amazon Lily.

We don't know the geography of the island but judging by Luffy and Marguerite's travel times we can assume it's pretty tiny, and the Kuja fortress is located portside as seen by Hancock's arrival. Judging by the cliffs permeating the city, it's a reasonable assumption that Amazon Lily's capital is isolated enough that the marines cannot totally surround it with their entire fleet. 

First, nobody in the buster call you've offered is powerful enough to take the harbor. Between Hancock's and the amazon's arrows and Marigold's acid, they'll begin dropping like flies the moment their feet touch the ground. Hancock can snipe down ranged projectiles and both her and Marigold should have sufficient enough haki to defend from any attacks these marines have to offer.

Second, whatever marines are dispatched to assail the empire by land will be hunted like animals. Marguerite seemed to be indicative of the average amazon and she gave serious chase to Luffy, placing their speed well above the average marine's and their haki packs more punch than the marines' bullets. Disregarding the island's human inhabitants, the jungles seemed to be home to a variety of terrifying animals... just look at Sandersonia's pet saber or how commonplace Hancock found it to be that a gigantic ape might be terrorizing the countryside. 

The bottom line is that Hancock could handle the Buster Call alone regardless of her kingdom, but my point is the amazons won't suffer a single casualty and the marines will be totally overwhelmed in every aspect. Dudes that were kept at bay by Nami have no chance of successfully laying siege to an island of organized warriors who treat haki like learning the alphabet.


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## Shizune (Nov 15, 2013)

Oh, and if you want to go with Law's approach— Hancock matches them cannon-for-arrow until they're out of ammo. Or, if you wanna give her some leniency in the range department, she fires volleys of arrows directly at the ship crewmembers. I don't even believe 5 vice admirals can overcome her, unless they're a hell of a lot stronger than Momonga.

The buster call has no chance at winning this.


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## Bitty (Nov 15, 2013)

how bout you guys just make it Buster Call vs Amazon Lily...no battleships, no prep, no weapons but the ones they carry, fighting on a huge piece of land with a starting distance of 30m.  I just wanna see who's overall the strongest force...fuck the extra shit.

Hancock beating 5 buster call VA's? wtf? at best she can handle 3 while the other 2 with backup deal with her nation of fodders.  Her two strongest fighters got handily beat  by pre-skip Luffy...........they're going to get annihilated.  Hancock's haki, range, & hax is the only legit threat here.

The VA's don't have the best showing, but there's no way the Buster Call VA's are that much weaker than Vergo & Smoker who are m3 level. These guys have the experience & portrayal. They're the elite VA's. No way Hancock is beating 3 m3 level opponents handily till she gets more feats.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

Hancock ain't soloing 4 VA's(One will be killing all the fodder in AL that we all know that will be killed cause 1 VA > G2 Pre TS Luffy > Hancock's Sisters > Captains = Fodder AL soldiers > Fodder Marine Soldiers ), why the hell are people saying that Hancock would fodderize Momonga ? Momonga couldn't fight back and didn't got himself into the Mero Mero attack, do you really think that she would fodderize him ? Momonga was willing to fight and wasn't afraid he knew that he would lose but he knew that it wouldn't be so easy, he says that " One is not the same as none " and I bet he could put up a fight I say at the very least Low End High Difficulty to win against Momonga, he is a VA after all, now 4 VA's trying to kill Hancock and now they can fight back do you really think that Hancock is going to be alive ? No freaking way . 1 VA can solo AL alone(Without Hancock of course) 2 VA would still lose against Hancock but higher it's the other way around .


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## Shanks (Nov 15, 2013)

Man, I can’t believe how many people thinks that the staying on ships and bombard the island will work. That’s probably the worst scenario for the marines and will they all be sitting duck to get folderise by Hancock – solo.

All she needs to do is ride her sea snake from 1 ship to another 1 shot everyone bi the VA into stone and then pretty much low ~ mid dif each of the VA on a 1 v 1 battle because the VAs are based on separate ships.

The best scenario for the marines would be to land everyone on the island and go on an all out fight with the Amazon Lilly.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> Man, I can?t believe how many people thinks that the staying on ships and bombard the island will work. That?s probably the worst scenario for the marines and will they all be sitting duck to get folderise by Hancock ? solo.
> 
> All she needs to do is ride her sea snake from 1 ship to another 1 shot everyone bi the VA into stone and then pretty much low ~ mid dif each of the VA on a 1 v 1 battle because the VAs are based on separate ships.
> 
> The best scenario for the marines would be to land everyone on the island and go on an all out fight with the Amazon Lilly.



I agree with the part that you say that staying out of land is idiot but low mid ? Mid-High is more accurate since Momonga was willing to fight Hancock and said that he was still dangerous even being 1, he would be owned by a Low End High Difficulty, not Low Difficulty, he was nowhere near being one shotted it was just because his Haki wasn't enough that he had to create another way out of Hancock's Hax Abilities . One VA to solo AL and 4 to win against Hancock .


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## Orca (Nov 15, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:
			
		

> No Vice Admiral was shown to engage against the likes of Marco,Jozu and Vista on their own (at least I don't remember it) because they know they're getting owned by these three.



Actually, Vista was shown fighting vice admiral Ronse.  Ronse was fine.


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## X18999 (Nov 15, 2013)

Firing cannons at Amazon Lily is a waste of time since their village is a the top of a mountain.




Not to mention the noise could attract sea kings, the girls could rain down Haki arrows (or cannons of their own if they have them) onto the ships.

ANd since I don't think highly of Vice Admirals at all (since they get treated as glorified fodder) I don't doubt Hancock and her crew could take them.  CoC could take care of the Marine fodder....


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## LogiaMaster666 (Nov 15, 2013)

How exactly is Hancock going to be able to make it to the ships in the first place if they were, say, close enough to use Buster Call, but too far away to be hit by Haki, or arrows? The only way that Hancock can win is if she has Geppo. If she does, then I stand corrected, otherwise, she is going to be stuck on her island, with no way of attacking, and the Buster Call is going to destroy the island, Hancock falls into water, the end.

Low difficulty for BC.


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## Extravlad (Nov 15, 2013)

Also Vista is much stronger than Hancock so the point is stupid because she doesn't stand a chance against him.

And lol at Hancock soloing 5 men stronger than Vergo.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Also Vista is much stronger than Hancock so the point is stupid because she doesn't stand a chance against him.
> 
> And lol at Hancock soloing* 5 men stronger than Vergo.*


Baseless statement, no such evidence exists.

You also dont know how Hancock compares to Vista at all.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

^ There's indeed no evidence but I think we should at least powerscale to that of Vergo's level, do you agree ?


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> ^ There's indeed no evidence but I think we should at least powerscale to that of Vergo's level, do you agree ?



Vergo is head of G5, Momonga teh same for G1 (probably), so tahts fair.

*But that assumption wouldn't turn out well for you people.*

Unless you believe that  Hancock is far weaker than Law (which i do not), because otherwise 5 guys at Vergos level aren't going to make this into a defeat for Amazon Lily.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

hehey said:


> Vergo is head of G5, Momonga teh same for G1 (probably), so tahts fair.
> 
> *But that assumption wouldn't turn out well for you people.*
> 
> Unless you believe that  Hancock is far weaker than Law (which i do not), because otherwise 5 guys at Vergos level aren't going to make this into a defeat for Amazon Lily.



5 Vergo would probably be enough even for Law . Mutiple guys that has a good level of speed(About the same level as you) ganging up against you is not a good idea .


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> 5 Vergo would probably be enough even for Law . Mutiple guys that has a good level of speed(About the same level as you) ganging up against you is not a good idea .


The moment Vergo lost possession of Law's heart Law defeated him with *literally one hit*.

Vergo was not by any means "about the same level" as Law.

Arguably Law doesn't even need 5 hits to beat 5 Vergo's, with his AOE he could cut multiple Vergo's at once (just as he cut both Vergo, a mountain, and all of teh SAD machines at once). (Hancock also has AOE).


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

It took Law's highest shot to cut Vergo, is different of just one shotting, and Vergo could most likely evade that just because he was sure(And this sure was even made higher with Dofla) that he didn't need it and his Haki was better than Law's so after he got one free shot he could continue and fuck up Vergo good, now if Vergo was trying to evade he could've and of course that Hancock can't one shot this guys via massive experience(20+ years Being Marines and Momonga knew the exact way to not be taken by Hancock's Hax so she will have to use her BH to fight) .


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

Forget Vergo, Momonga was a VA even in Roger's era and he is the head of G1 . Even his haki was not strong enough to resist Hancock's DF. He had to injure himself against a casual attack from Hancock. So, i am not seeing any other VA doing much better

So, its not impossible at all for hancock to solo 5 VA (because haki is not strong enough) when they cant even touch her or hit her with their weapon or let her touch them or let her slave arrow touch them at long range. Its the most uncomfortable fight anyone can ever be. and quantity most likely wount be enough to change the end result imo. and if u think about it its even more effective than Law's DF cause in that case u can at least hit him if get the chance.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

Every VA is from Roger's Era and they all probably have experience enought to stay out of Hancock's Hax .


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> Every VA is from Roger's Era and they all probably have experience enought to stay out of Hancock's Hax .



How ? and how will they beat/go in offense against Hancock without touching her and do u think VA's r so fast that Hancock cant even hit them at least once (physically or via slave arrow) ?


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## mr sean66 (Nov 15, 2013)

This is fucking ridiculous.
Hancock is a woman that happens to have strong haki and hax devil fruit . This is pretty baseless but I. Don't think she can tank attacks all that well it would probably take vergo like 30-50 seconds to defeat her if she didnt defend herself and that's being very genourous for a fragile woman like Hancock.
2-3 vas should high diff her. 1 va can pretty much solo the rest of the island.

You guys are also forgetting that it isn't just the vas it's like over 5000 fodder with like 50 captains an like 200 luitenants that can probably own the kuja warriors not to mention there is probably like 5-10 commodores aswell
Pre skip luffy is said to be commodore level and he fought the 2nd and 3rd strongest on the island himself. Honesty all 5 vas can gang up on Hancock while all the rest of the soldiers atom everybody else.

Buster call low diff maybe mid diff if marines are unlucky with the attack


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> How ? and how will they beat/go in offense against Hancock without touching her and do u think VA's r so fast that Hancock cant even hit them at least once (physically or via slave arrow) ?



They can surely cut her her BH is not that great, and the Slave Arrows can be avoided for sure it's just precocious . It's 4 Vergos here, it's not like they all have to be in front of her, they will attack from different directions going all out and have good speed level . Oni Take from all directions and Hancock would be in trouble .


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## Shinthia (Nov 15, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> They can surely cut her her BH is not that great, and the Slave Arrows can be avoided for sure it's just precocious . It's 4 Vergos here, it's not like they all have to be in front of her, they will attack from different directions going all out and have good speed level . Oni Take from all directions and Hancock would be in trouble .



every attack they do will need contact and with weak haki that weapon will just turn into stone. Also do u think Hancock cant even touch them at least once ?


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

There's 4 VA's with roughly same speed as her, it would be really hard to touch'em .


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## X18999 (Nov 15, 2013)

Roughly the same speed as her?  Assumptions...

Man people seem to dislike Hancock for no reason... do people think it would be impossible for Doflamingo to take on Five VA? Considering how he treated everyone of them he had run into so far I think he'd make them look like fools.  Hancock's fruit is even more deadly than his and she can't be too far away from his level (if she not stronger).


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## Orca (Nov 15, 2013)

Doflamingo >> Hancock.

You seruiously can't compare their feats,hype and portrayal.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

DD fought a battered Smoker and embarrassed 2 VA's. Hancock is not on his level.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 15, 2013)

X18999 said:


> Roughly the same speed as her?  Assumptions...
> 
> Man people seem to dislike Hancock for no reason... do people think it would be impossible for Doflamingo to take on Five VA? Considering how he treated everyone of them he had run into so far I think he'd make them look like fools.  Hancock's fruit is even more deadly than his and she can't be too far away from his level (if she not stronger).



I actually like Hancock, she's the only strong woman that is hot and she adds funny scenes, I also like her history(Being slave and all and now she is "Empress", I like her as much as I like Fisher Tiger, which is a lot) but I don't think that she's on dat level(Nor in potrayal nor in feats, she would absolutely sure murder Moriah and Crocodile, and some 3 VA's with High Difficulty at the same time but 4 VA is too much) .


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

Also it depends on what VA's she's fighting for her to win. Onigumo would lol cuff her alone so adding in Doverman and others is over kill.


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## 2Broken (Nov 15, 2013)

Unless a buster call is made custom to destroy Amazon Lily it is going to fail for several reason.

1. Sea Kings are going to be a bitch. It is canon that even with seastone a Sea King can locate a single ship if it is still long enough. In this scenario there are 10 ships grouped together and they will be constantly firing canons, so there is no way Sea Kings aren't showing up. There is also only one VA per two ships so the VAs aren't successfully protecting the ships from Sea Kings, especially if many show up. It was also shown that the ship that meet Hancock is the same as the one in a buster call and that ship's canon fire can't hurt the Sea Kings of the Calm Belt.

2. Conquer's Haki is the perfect weapon against the average buster call. It is stated that in manga that there is usually someone guarding the port of Amazon Lily, so it is likely the attack will be seen coming. The buster call is made up of 10,000 "fodders" + VAs and Hancock has much more experience with Conquer Haki than pre-skip Luffy and he was able to knock out many of the much tougher marines at Marineford. If she hits them with it it will basically be the VA's and maybe a few tough guys left. That means most of the infantry is down and ships become all but worthless, seeing as there is no one to operate them.

3. The terrain of the island is built like a natural fortress. Hancock and the Kuja live in the center of a mountain with enormous thick stone wall protecting them. Outside of that is a thick forest that is good for ambushes. The way they are positioned bombardment is not going to be very effective at taking them out.

4. Kuja fodder >> Marine fodder. Whatever marines make it ashore either have to fight the Kuja in their home jungle, or scale a mountain to fight them. Either way Warriors from birth  that can use haki are way better then the generic marine fodder shown at the Enies Lobby Buster Call. There is also at least a thousand of them.

5. Hancock can Hancock. I don't think she can beat 5 VAs at the same time, but she can definitely fight a few and she will have hundreds of Kuja supporting her. 5 VA > Hancock, but 5 VAs << Hancock plus Kuja militia.

Amazon Lily isn't the place to send a lot of fodder or bombard. It isn't the most massive Nation and its population is relatively small. It is the place you send an unocuppied admiral or a couple of warlords with Pacifiatas if you want to take it down right.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

^ I dislike repeating myself but remember there isn't just marine fodder. There's captains, lieutenants, lieutenant commanders, commodore's, and possibly the VA's right hand could be a rear admiral. The fodder in AL aren't having it easy against the raw numbers.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> ^ I dislike repeating myself but remember there isn't just marine fodder. There's captains, lieutenants, lieutenant commanders, commodore's, and possibly the VA's right hand could be a rear admiral. The fodder in AL aren't having it easy against the raw numbers.



Fodder

In Ennies Lobby the Buster Call ships unleashed *200 "of their best Captains and Leutenants"* to finish of the weakned Straw Hat Crew (Minus Sanji and Luffy), they didn't do jack shit except for cost Zoro one of his swords. Even a guy like Ussop could fodderize those guys.

They are in fact, juts fodder/

*Kuja fodder are all Haki users.*

Aside form the VA's there's no reason to believe that the other Marines would be superior in fighting strength to the population of Amazon Lily.


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## Lmao (Nov 15, 2013)

Hancock isn't handling 5 VAs though it'd be interesting to see how her power would affect the rest, we know Momonga is vulnerable.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

hehey said:


> Fodder
> 
> In Ennies Lobby the Buster Call ships unleashed *200 "of their best Captains and Leutenants"* to finish of the weakned Straw Hat Crew (Minus Sanji and Luffy), they didn't do jack shit except for cost Zoro one of his swords. Even a guy like Ussop could fodderize those guys.
> 
> ...



Do you know how much PIS was involved in them surviving? You know it too. Zoro wouldn't get  the luxury of a 1v1 like in that buster call. Who cares if their haki users. Marigold and Sandersonia were better ones then them and they both got raped by pre timeskip gear Luffy.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Do you know how much PIS was involved in them surviving. You know it too. Zoro wouldn't get  the luxury of a 1v1 like in that buster call. Who cares if their haki users. Marigold and Sandersonia were better ones then them and they both got raped by pre timeskip gear Luffy.



Basically, this. I agree. Strawhats are the epitome of heroes within the OP story line, but nevertheless, still survived.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

^ Exacta that's why they do all kinds of things and survive things that they shouldn't survive. Why didn't one of the VA's go in a one shot all of them? The answer is plot shield. Oda had to not make them fight or else they'd rape the main characters and they can't get captured or else the manga is over.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Do you know how much PIS was involved in them surviving. You know it too. Zoro wouldn't get  the luxury of a 1v1 like in that buster call. Who cares if their haki users. Marigold and Sandersonia were better ones then them and they both got raped by pre timeskip gear Luffy.


In Gear 2 Luffy raped them but in Base form he could not do shit to them

Pre-Skip Base Lufy >> any Captain, Lieutenant, Commodore, ect *that the buster call has to offe*r (even their so called "best") and he could not do shit to Marigold and Sandersonia.

Basically there is no reason to believe that the Marine Mooks are better than the Amazons, and yeah, its because they are all haki users.

Here is an army of fodder (Buster Call Marines) Vs another Army of fodder who can predict your moves and strengthen their attacks and weapons with CoA (Amazons), i wonder who will win? Oh wait, it doesn't take rocket science to see taht Amazon fodder is superior here.

As for PIS, it happened, 200 of teh marines best Captains and Leutenants were shown to be cannon fodder, you can ignore it if you want but its manga fact.


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 15, 2013)

hehey said:


> In Gear 2 Luffy raped them but in Base form he could not do shit to them
> 
> Pre-Skip Base Lufy >> any Captain, Lieutenant, Commodore, ect *that the buster call has to offe*r (even their so called "best") and he could not do shit to Marigold and Sandersonia.
> 
> ...



Luffy couldn't do anything to them because all of his attacks were being read through them using the CoO to analyze Luffy's attacks thoroughly.

In terms of fighters, the amazon lily fighters have been trained to become naturally born fighters that can, in conjunction, fight in a versatile manner using haki to strengthen their blows.. No way is any marines remotely coming close to that. They're literally the epitome of hard work and natural prowess, although when it comes to fire power, they will obviously succumb to the sheer force of the weaponry the marines hold.

I agree with this. I strongly believe that from afar, a buster call attack would annihiliate the kuja's with sheer fire power basically destroying their homelands, but whilst the kujas invade the ships by which they stealthily approach, no way are the marines escaping the kujas onslaught attack.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

The Marines own "Sheer Firepower" from their weaponry is their undoing if they use it, it will only attract teh Sea Kings taht they normaly try so hard to hide from with the Sea stone Under their ships. 

Momonga could defeat just 1 Sea King taht noticed his ship for standing in one place to long, but there's a reason even he had to hide behid Sea Stone, aka that teh Merines cannot survive in teh Clam Belt without hiding from teh Sea Kings who usually Zerg and Destroy all ship taht enter. *Its the reason why Marines were unable to venture the Clam Belt before Vegapunk's invention.*


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## 2Broken (Nov 15, 2013)

I said lot of things in my post, but first I want to say to those who think the buster call destroys Amazon Lily, how many of the 10,000 soldiers do you think will be conscious after Hancock uses CoC an how do you see that affecting their ability to do combat?


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

hehey said:


> In Gear 2 Luffy raped them but in Base form he could not do shit to them
> 
> *Pre-Skip Base Lufy* >> any Captain, Lieutenant, *Commodore*, ect *that the buster call has to offe*r (even their so called "best") and he could not do shit to Marigold and Sandersonia.
> 
> ...



Baseless. Have you seen any commodore's other then Smoker. Also 2Broken It depends on her CotC level.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Baseless. Have you seen any commodore's other then Smoker.



Do you read the Manga?

Arlong killed a Commodore that went to stop his reign of terror at her home town... *he and his men were easily defeated* (his name was pudding i think)

AKA, Commodores are nothing to Base Luffy, just as i said..

It was a commodores ship that Luffy and Co stole after escaping Impel Down.

OF course, you must have heard of Brannew? (probably the most prominent Commodore aside from Smoker).


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

^ That's post timeskip and just like VA's they vary in power. Do you think Maynard is on par with Bastille? Marine HQ ones are stronger then the ones in EB the weakest of the seas.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> ^ That's post timeskip and just like VA's they vary in power. Do you think Maynard is on par with Bastille. Marine HQ ones are stronger then the ones in EB the weakest of the seas.



Post time-skip?, Arlong has only appeared in flash backs post time skip, again, do you read the manga? He defeated a commodore long ago rather easily, and Arlong is weaker than pre-skip Base Luffy, therefore Pre-Skip Base Luffy is easily greater than a Commodore.

And the supposed superiority of HQ marines vs those station in other places is something that's completely made up


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

^ I was talking about Brannew. So you're telling me that Tashigi isn't stronger then captains in EB? Extremely fallacious argument.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> ^ I was talking about Brannew. So you're telling me that Tashigi isn't stronger then captains in EB? Extremely fallacious argument.


Smoker was stationed in EB when he was a captain, and when his body was possessed by Taishigi on Punk Hazard Luffy believed he had gotten much weaker (since he last saw him).

And to defeat this whole HQ Marine greatness nonsense all of those high ranking marine officers like Captains and Lieutenants were fodderized by even pre-skip Ussop and Chopper at Ennies Lobby *were from Marine HQ*

Again, this so called difference between marines of different areas* is made up completely.*

at best you can say that some marines are stronger than their rank Suggested regardless (*like Sentoumaru* or more obviously Garp)

and for the record, Brannew has no feats, there's no reason to think hes greater than other commodores. At best, hes far more intelligent as or strategic which is why even Vice Admirals have to listen to what he says.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

^ You're still dodging the question. Is Tashigi stronger then EB captains?


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

No, shes not, my evidence is that Smoker was EB captain and shes weaker now than he was then.

*EDIT: *And before anyone says some shit like "but Smoker was a special case you cant bring him up as an EB Captain" il preemptively respond with "then don't bring Taishigi as an example of a Captain as shes also a special case seeing as how shes the only captain in teh series that can use Haki".

(i call taht fighting fire with fire)/

Again, no evidence of HQ marines being superior than their counterparts in other seas. (Taishigi isn't a Marine HQ Captain anyway).


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## 2Broken (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Also 2Broken It depends on her CotC level.



You would agree that it has to at the very least, and I do mean at the very least be stronger than pre-skip Luffy's no? Based off that and pre-skip Luffy's feats with it would you not agree she can knock out the vast majority of the Marines soldiers in this scenario?


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

Really? Smoker gets raped. Call me when he can react to soru and take shots that finished Monet. A NW pirate.


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## Slenderman (Nov 15, 2013)

2Broken said:


> You would agree that it has to at the very least, and I do mean at the very least be stronger than pre-skip Luffy's no? Based off that and pre-skip Luffy's feats with it would you not agree she can knock out the vast majority of the Marines soldiers in this scenario?



True the fodders would be almost all if not all knocked out. I'm assuming that the lieutenants, lt commanders, captains and Rear Admirals. Though it's hard to gauge since she hasn't shown it. Also Hehey in the manga that captain who rusted Yubairshi didn't get one shotted by Ussop that 's only anime only filler. Check it out for yourself.


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Really? Smoker gets raped. Call me when he can react to soru and take shots that finished Monet. A NW pirate.


Pre-Skip Zoro and Luffy could deal with Soru (Luffy could even do this in base form, see Coby's Soru being easily countered). Luffy's Gear 2 speed which was equivalent to Soru wasn't something that was beyond Smoker during Marine ford, didnt stop Luffy from being pinned.

You speak of this "move taht finished Moent" as if it was some kind of ultimate move. Taishigi couldn't even beat Monet by herself, she only nailed her from behind cause she was distracted with Zoro, alone she could not beat Monet (why Zoro had to intervene)/

Taishigi is weak..... she could not touch Smoker.

Furthermore being a NW pirate is not some guarantee of strength, Brownbeard is a New World Pirate and he sucks.....


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## hehey (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> True the fodders would be almost all if not all knocked out. I'm assuming that the lieutenants, lt commanders, captains and Rear Admirals. Though it's hard to gauge since she hasn't shown it. Also Hehey in the manga *that captain who rusted Yubairshi didn't get one shotted by Ussop *that 's only anime only filler. Check it out for yourself.


Obviously not since he was fighting Zoro.....

Fact is, of the 200 marines sent to that attacked the Merry that time *none of them were below the rank of Captain*, and all of the strawhats were picking them off even in their injured states, Ussop included.

They are fodder plain and simple.... not a good showing for "HQ" marines.


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## 2Broken (Nov 15, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> True the fodders would be almost all if not all knocked out. I'm assuming that the lieutenants, lt commanders, captains and Rear Admirals. Though it's hard to gauge since she hasn't shown it.



Well do you believe that 5 VAs plus the the small remains of their forces can protect themselves from Sea Kings, manage the ships and successful fight Hancock plus 1000+ haki warriors?


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## Shinthia (Nov 16, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> There's 4 VA's with roughly same speed as her, it would be really hard to touch'em .



Even if u think hacock is not faster (unlikely imo) and has the same speed. It would still mean Hacock can tag them therefore more than capable of touching them.


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## Extravlad (Nov 16, 2013)

Messi more wank plz more.

Current Luffy > Hancock.


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## Shinthia (Nov 16, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Messi more wank plz more.
> 
> Current Luffy > Hancock.



ok. I will try. But, i am not promising anything


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## Slenderman (Nov 16, 2013)

hehey said:


> Pre-Skip Zoro and Luffy could deal with Soru (Luffy could even do this in base form, see Coby's Soru being easily countered). Luffy's Gear 2 speed which was equivalent to Soru wasn't something that was beyond Smoker during Marine ford, didnt stop Luffy from being pinned.
> 
> You speak of this "move taht finished Moent" as if it was some kind of ultimate move. Taishigi couldn't even beat Monet by herself, she only nailed her from behind cause she was distracted with Zoro, alone she could not beat Monet (why Zoro had to intervene)/
> 
> ...



When she was given the chance she one shot Monet correct? Also you said that Tashigi isn't even a Marine HQ captain but you told me that it doesn't matter if you're from HQ. Double standards everywhere.


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## Slenderman (Nov 16, 2013)

hehey said:


> Obviously not since he was fighting Zoro.....
> 
> Fact is, of the 200 marines sent to that attacked the Merry that time *none of them were below the rank of Captain*, and all of the strawhats were picking them off even in their injured states, Ussop included.
> 
> They are fodder plain and simple.... not a good showing for "HQ" marines.



You just told me that Ussop stomped one and I showed you up. Concede honorably or continue to get embarrassed by double standards set by yourself.


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## Slenderman (Nov 16, 2013)

2Broken said:


> Well do you believe that 5 VAs plus the the small remains of their forces can protect themselves from Sea Kings, manage the ships and successful fight Hancock plus 1000+ haki warriors?



Well I made a mistake there I expect the named ones to be able to fight but Hancock's CotC has yet to be seen. Plus while 4 gang on her 1 can stay back and take care of the sisters while the other countless captains followed by lt's and lt commanders followed by commoders and RA's those 1000 people practically mean nothing. The 2 sisters got raped by Luffy who was treated like trash from 2 VA's. I'm sure pre timeskip Luffy could take out lots of those fodder considering that he raped the 3rd and 2nd strongest simultaneously in AL.


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Nov 16, 2013)

The buster call canon fire is humongous. Can easily topple buildings. Plus the buster call has range. Five VAs (competent ones) should also be too much for Boa alone. Add the other minor elite pirates and Amazon Lily would get decimated. Coupled with range and distribution, Boa's CoC wouldn't be easy to use on all the ships and marines.


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## 2Broken (Nov 16, 2013)

@Slenderman Some of the Marines may not be knocked out by the haki, but if we scale her haki from pre-skip Luffy's (which I believe you agree is more than reasonable) then even many of the officers are going to fall. Luffy's feat of knocking out a bunch of New World Pirates and Marine officers at Marineford pretty much shows we can scale Hancock to knocking out all but the higher ranked officers. The VAs are fine for sure those ranked directly below them may be fine (rear admirals if they are there), but after that it doesn't look good for the marines. Especially when you had officers at Enies Lobby and Luffy took on thousands of Marines there at the same time. Also Luffy raping the Boa sisters is a myth. If it was a rape Gears Second wouldn't be needed. On top of that neither were significantly injured by Luffy at all. One of the sisters caught fire from the other sister's tech and from the pain she blindly ran off the cliff.

@TheOnlyOne1 Buster Call fire is big, but the Kuja live inside a hollowed out mountain. Plus the warships used in buster call attacks couldn't kill even damage the Sea Kings of the Calm Belt. Bombardment is not going to be an effective weapon against Amazon Lily especially since the large majority of the people need to run the ship are going to be unconscious.


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Nov 16, 2013)

I don't think the durability of a Sea King is relevant here.


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## 2Broken (Nov 16, 2013)

TheOnlyOne1 said:


> I don't think the durability of a Sea King is relevant here.



It is very relevant seeing that the sea kings of that area will be attacking marines and the kuja have a mountain to shield them from cannon fire.


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## TheOnlyOne1 (Nov 16, 2013)

2Broken said:


> It is very relevant seeing that the sea kings of that area will be attacking marines and the kuja have a mountain to shield them from cannon fire.



How long was Momongoa there for? In that amount of time only one Sea King attacked them. It's not like there is a school of Sea Kings waiting there for the marines. So if you are imagining a situation where the Marines would have to constantly fend off Sea Kings would be faulty. 

And didn't Momongoa one shot the Sea King? If so, 5 prominent VAs would absolutely stomp the few SKs that will attack them from time to time and can use them as food to extend their siege. 

And can you provide scans of this absolute defense system of their village you keep talking about because I don't see how they will survive constant bombardment of that magnitude. And it doesn't make sense for the Buster call to have the hype it has (island razing capability) which it has shown evidence to be capable of, if it can be so easily deterred by the position of the landscape.


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## Canute87 (Nov 16, 2013)

This has reached pretty far.


What the hell is one warlord gonna do against 5 VA's?


Two VA's can literally one shot everybody else there leaving three.


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## Lmao (Nov 16, 2013)

How are Sea Kings attacking the battleships a real issue here? VAs geppou to the island, fodder die anyway.


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## Slenderman (Nov 16, 2013)

2Broken said:


> @Slenderman Some of the Marines may not be knocked out by the haki, but if we scale her haki from pre-skip Luffy's (which I believe you agree is more than reasonable) then even many of the officers are going to fall. Luffy's feat of knocking out a bunch of New World Pirates and Marine officers at Marineford pretty much shows we can scale Hancock to knocking out all but the higher ranked officers. The VAs are fine for sure those ranked directly below them may be fine (rear admirals if they are there), but after that it doesn't look good for the marines. Especially when you had officers at Enies Lobby and Luffy took on thousands of Marines there at the same time. Also Luffy raping the Boa sisters is a myth. If it was a rape Gears Second wouldn't be needed. On top of that neither were significantly injured by Luffy at all. One of the sisters caught fire from the other sister's tech and from the pain she blindly ran off the cliff.
> 
> @TheOnlyOne1 Buster Call fire is big, but the Kuja live inside a hollowed out mountain. Plus the warships used in buster call attacks couldn't kill even damage the Sea Kings of the Calm Belt. Bombardment is not going to be an effective weapon against Amazon Lily especially since the large majority of the people need to run the ship are going to be unconscious.



When he went gear second he wasn't touched. I'm talking only about g2. Not the combined diff which would be mid.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Nov 16, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> This has reached pretty far.
> 
> 
> What the hell is one warlord gonna do against 5 VA's?
> ...



Thing is it's not simply a war. A buster call needs it's ammo and fodder to shoot that ammo to completely destroy AL. And the ships+ammo can be compromised.


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## Slenderman (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm so happy. I out debated the biggest VA downplayer on the forums.


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