# Yhwach vs Kaguya



## saint rider 890 (Jul 30, 2016)

Speed Unqual.

Both of them Bloodlusted.

PIS/CIS not allowed

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Mexikorn (Jul 30, 2016)

We would be living in a better world if stupidity was simply just not allowed.

*Spoiler*: __ 



You mean restricted

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Finalbeta (Jul 30, 2016)

If he steals her powers he wins otherwise no chance


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## reiko96 (Jul 30, 2016)

Yhwach. Kaguya got wrecked by the Harem No Jutsu and got bitch slapped by Naruto


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## shade0180 (Jul 30, 2016)

reiko96 said:


> Yhwach. Kaguya got wrecked by the Harem No Jutsu and got bitch slapped by Naruto



Like Yhwack isn't going to get bitch slapped by Nardo, if they ever fought.


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## Jamrock (Jul 30, 2016)

Sasuke solos


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Ywhack gets whacked.


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## Clowe (Jul 30, 2016)

and then what?


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## shade0180 (Jul 30, 2016)

He gets put in IT the same way he got trapped by KS.


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

Infinity Tsukuyomi and end.


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## Revan Reborn (Jul 30, 2016)

He was already under the influence of KS before the alimighty, meaning all of his futures were fucked. he would just move to a future where he is not affected, by Genjutsu, because it was used in battle, and wouldnt be in all futures. Juha Win's mid diff to low diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

slayedigneel said:


> He was already under the influence of KS before the alimighty, meaning all of his futures were fucked. he would just move to a future where he is not affected, by Genjutsu, because it was used in battle, and wouldnt be in all futures. Juha Win's mid diff to low diff.



Aizen actived KS before Yhwach arrived, Yhwach would have seen KS influence in the future.

See to Ishida, etc.

See the same vision of the future than Jugram and evite your death, etc.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

Ends in Sex.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 4


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## Sotomaru (Jul 30, 2016)

time to get debunked lil bois' 
aizen casted ks before the almighty was even activated so in short when yhwach activated the almighty he was still under the influence of ks which means that aizen could show him a fake future (which he did) now if yhwach's almighty was activated when aizen tried to use ks on him then he would see it coming & simply break his sword simple as that
the almighty is as almighty as people think it is
stop downplaying tyvm.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 5


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## Imagine (Jul 30, 2016)

Ban Yhwach threads.

Reactions: Winner 11 | Friendly 1


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## Revan Reborn (Jul 30, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> Aizen actived KS before Yhwach arrived, Yhwach would have seen KS influence in the future.
> 
> See to Ishida, etc.
> 
> See the same vision of the future than Jugram and evite your death, etc.



The fact still remains he used it in all futures, activating genjutsu during battle is different because there is cases where he doesn't. Juha goes to the future where he didnt use genjutsu and blinds him.


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## Xhominid (Jul 30, 2016)

Yhwach pretty much wins since Kaguya has no true way of ending him while he still has the chance of just absorbing her completely now...

BFR doesn't work since he can create dimensional pathways and even do crazy shit like make the Silbern from SS's shadows anyway. The Almighty pretty much LOL on brute force and normal means of defeating him general and pretty much says FUCK YOU to logic most of the time.

I don't believe The Almighty is a NLF...but it's DAMN close.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tonathan100 (Jul 30, 2016)

Xhominid said:


> Yhwach pretty much wins since Kaguya has no true way of ending him while he still has the chance of just absorbing her completely now...
> 
> BFR doesn't work since he can create dimensional pathways and even do crazy shit like make the Silbern from SS's shadows anyway. The Almighty pretty much LOL on brute force and normal means of defeating him general and pretty much says FUCK YOU to logic most of the time.
> 
> I don't believe The Almighty is a NLF...but it's DAMN close.


Yeah. Uh. No.

The Almighty is not some epic ability that only nigh-omnipotents wield. In fact, it cannot really do much of anything that Yhwach cannot do himself.

The Almighty can be overpowered by simply being more powerful that Yhwach himself.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Yeah. Uh. No.
> 
> The Almighty is not some epic ability that only nigh-omnipotents wield. In fact, it cannot really do much of anything that Yhwach cannot do himself.
> 
> *The Almighty can be overpowered by simply being more powerful that Yhwach himself*.



Not exactly. It is a haxx, not raw power. Having more power isn't going to stop him from using his traps, time skip, fast forwarding events (like when he broke Ichigo's bankai without moving), or reviving himself. All of those things work around raw power and can give him the edge over someone who is stronger than him. 

As for this fight, Bach wins. Kaguya is stupid. Not due to plot, but genuinely dumb. I don't recall her doing a single smart thing, even with all of her power. She also doesn't have a way to put him down as far as we know. Her raw power shouldn't be much more than Bach's (assuming it is more at all), so even if she does get a chance to kill him, she will be tired, and screwed once he revives himself. 

Bach, on the other-hand had to be dealt with by one of the most broken moves in Bleach (KS) + plot arrow + PIS + Ichigo's new "fearsome" bankai. Not only that, but the only reason all of that worked is because Aizen placed him under KS back in the first invasion, way before the Almighty awakened. His one on one fight with Ichigo showed up how a fight against him would go when you just have raw power.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Xhominid (Jul 30, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> Yeah. Uh. No.
> 
> The Almighty is not some epic ability that only nigh-omnipotents wield. In fact, it cannot really do much of anything that Yhwach cannot do himself.
> 
> The Almighty can be overpowered by simply being more powerful that Yhwach himself.



I never said it was...and do you have proof that you only need to be more powerful than Yhwach himself as a simple statement? How much more powerful are you talking about here on top of that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tonathan100 (Jul 30, 2016)

Xhominid said:


> I never said it was...and do you have proof that you only need to be more powerful than Yhwach himself as a simple statement? How much more powerful are you talking about here on top of that?





			
				what Xhominid said said:
			
		

> The Almighty pretty much LOL on brute force and normal means of defeating him general and pretty much says FUCK YOU to logic most of the time.
> 
> I don't believe The Almighty is a NLF...but it's DAMN close.


By the way, you only need be beyond Country Level to beyond baseline Planet Level to operate beyond the level of The Almighty.



Hamaru said:


> Not exactly. It is a haxx, not raw power. Having more power isn't going to stop him from using his traps, time skip, fast forwarding events (like when he broke Ichigo's bankai without moving), or reviving himself. All of those things work around raw power and can give him the edge over someone who is stronger than him.


1. Traps don't work on someone with more durability unless you are using that person's weakness(es).
2. Time Skip which will be utterly useless against more powerful opponents.
3. Fast-fowarding events would only increase his chance of dying from, for example, a powerful technique if someone is more powerful than him, because his inevitable death would be fast-fowarded.
4. If he revives himself against a person more powerful than he is, he will just get killed again and again.



> As for this fight, Bach wins. Kaguya is stupid. Not due to plot, but genuinely dumb. I don't recall her doing a single smart thing, even with all of her power. She also doesn't have a way to put him down as far as we know. Her raw power shouldn't be much more than Bach's (assuming it is more at all), so even if she does get a chance to kill him, she will be tired, and screwed once he revives himself.


Lack of stamina does not magically decrease durability or destructive capacity. She'd just port to some dimension to rest until she has the stamina to kill Yhwach again.



> Bach, on the other-hand had to be dealt with by one of the most broken moves in Bleach (KS) + plot arrow + PIS + Ichigo's new "fearsome" bankai. Not only that, but the only reason all of that worked is because Aizen placed him under KS back in the first invasion, way before the Almighty awakened. His one on one fight with Ichigo showed up how a fight against him would go when you just have raw power.


Except Ichigo wasn't more powerful than Yhwach. And by your line of reasoning (that Yhwach was only beaten because of plot and hax), Yhwach could take on SSJGSSJ Goku and not immediately get reduced to paste.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

Kaguya really has no way to kill Yhwach afaik

The arguments posted ITT are correct in so far as the reason KS could defeat the Almighty like it did and even then Yhwach still wound up seeing through it eventually (or aizen stopped using it like a dumbass)


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## Blocky (Jul 30, 2016)

Can you stop with the Yhwach threads OP?
Just because bleach is ending that doesn't mean you gonna keep spamming threads with Yhwach in it


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Tonathan100 said:


> By the way, you only need be beyond Country Level to beyond baseline Planet Level to operate beyond the level of The Almighty.
> 
> 
> 1. Traps don't work on someone with more durability unless you are using that person's weakness(es).
> ...


 
I don't think you're getting the concept of The Almighty at all. Also, Kaguya doesn't get her durability scaled to planet level from what I recall, so there is nothing to say that Bach can't hurt her with his traps or anything else. Also, he used piercing attacks for those traps which require far less energy to cause damage. 

Time skip helps him dodge and gives him a greater speed advantage. He could also use it to get close to someone and drain them bit by bit if he decided to. 

No. He would obviously fast forward to an event in a time-line that is best for him. He isn't going to use it in a time-line that works against him. Basically, if there was someone that he would only beat or get the upper hand against once in 100 fights, he would chose that one timeline. 

He would get killed over and over by someone with far, far more power. Not another planet level opponent unless that person has haxx to seal the deal. 

Bach can easily follow her, assuming she gets the kill in the first place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

Gonna say Yhwach in a hard fight, he is probably stronger and more versatile than her, in speed terms they should be around the same lv, and if Kaguya kill him he can always come back. Not much she can do really.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Gonna say Yhwach in a hard fight, he is probably stronger and more versatile than her, in speed terms they should be around the same lv, and if Kaguya kill him he can always come back. Not much she can do really.


Stronger from something he never did or had any huge evidence in doing? Anything short of Vegeta's Galick Gun in terms of hype isn't getting planet level from statements especially when it's over time.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Stronger from something he never did or had any huge evidence in doing? Anything short of Vegeta's Galick Gun in terms of hype isn't getting planet level from statements especially when it's over time.


I never said Yhwach is planet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

slayedigneel said:


> The fact still remains he used it in all futures, activating genjutsu during battle is different because there is cases where he doesn't. Juha goes to the future where he didnt use genjutsu and blinds him.



For this, should be a future with it. A future without moon or dimentions.

Kaguya with random attack kills Yhwach.

He revive, she can use izanagi.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Blocky said:


> Can you stop with the Yhwach threads OP?
> Just because bleach is ending that doesn't mean you gonna keep spamming threads with Yhwach in it


I'll make a case to the other mods


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> For this, should be a future with it. A future without moon or dimentions.
> 
> Kaguya with random attack kills Yhwach.
> 
> He revive, she can use izanagi.


Kaguya doesn't have sharingan


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## Blocky (Jul 30, 2016)

technically she does, since all power from naruto came from her.
otherwise she can't use IT.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Nighty said:


> Kaguya really has no way to kill Yhwach afaik



problem is he doesn't either

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> problem is he doesn't either


Yeah besides the star knight abilities.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> the star knight abilities



you mean those that he failed to show even once?

yeah lets go with them

so which one do you think will help him here?


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

Blocky said:


> technically she does, since all power from naruto came from her.
> otherwise she can't use IT.


All the powers from Naruto evolved from her, not the same. Kaguya is never claimed or even stated to have Sharingan, or any ability from it.


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> you mean those that he failed to show even once?
> 
> yeah lets go with them
> 
> so which one do you think will help him here?


You mean like yama's bankai he has but never uses? Or the shit ton of quincy spells he has but never bothered to used your argument that he doesn't have them when when he's stated to is transparent as fuck.
[Side text: A babe who has nothing and can do nothing...]
[Text: The baby... // ...could not see... // ...could not hear... // ...could not speak... // ...and could not even move. // He had no means of prolonging his own survival... // ...yet the baby was not afraid. // He did not cry, because his throat could produce no noise... // ...but even if he had been able to, he would not have made a sound. // The baby knew. // Knew that even without the means to prolong his own life... // ...he would nonetheless live on.
As their wounds slowly healed, the knowledge they had gained, the abilities they had learned through great effort, the skills they had awakened within themselves... // ...were all imprinted upon the fragments of the baby’s soul that they had received..]

Their abilities, skills they had awakened within themselves were transfered to the soul.

Second he was born with no senses at all he did not posses sight or even the ability to feel. Yet he had gain those things simply because another possessed them. The argument that he only gets power when he gained senses he did not posses is weak as it gets.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> -snip-



you can post statements all you want, the fact of the matter still remains that actual showings contradict them

there were opportunities where using a specific schrift would have been preferable, live saving even, but he didn't

you can scream PIS all you want, but when there is so much instances of him not using even a single schrift to save his life or to defeat his opponent, that it stops being PIS and starts being this character's reality

truth of the matter is, Kaguya is exactly like Yhwach in this regard, she also has statements that hype her as the source of every Nardoverse ability and bloodline, but unlike Yhwach she actually showed some of them like an advanced form of Deadbone Pulse or Ice manipulation aka Hyouton

guess what? we still don't give her every fucking Nardoverse ability in existence, simply for the same reason - she didn't show  them, even when it would have saved her from injury or helped her against an opponent

we do not chalk those instances as PIS, and trust me, she has far less of those instances than Yhwach, because it's like Wombat so precisely noted - Kaguya has been Kaguya for only 10 chapters or so, Yhwach has been Kaguya'ing for about 200 chapters

Yhwach is not some special cookie deserving of special treatment


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> you can post statements all you want, the fact of the matter still remains that actual showings contradict them
> 
> there were opportunities where using a specific schrift would have been preferable, live saving even, but he didn't
> 
> ...



There has not been a single instance in the manga were another sternritter ability was more suited than his own abilities.

Feel free to point them out tho which I know you won't be able to do.

Against Ichibe? Not a single sternritter ability he possessed at the time could counter ichimonji, heck even know the only thing above it is the Almighty.

 Against Ichigo? None of it was ever needed.

Aizen? Feel free to list a single sternritter ability that can break KS go ahead.

You mention these opportunities he had to use these abilities yet those are his only fight and not a single sternritter ability was called for.

There's not a single character he couldn't hurt with a combination of raw power and the almighty.

So I state again quote a single fucking instance in which an ability aside from the almight would have been useful or needed.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> So I state again quote a single fucking instance in which an ability aside from the almight would have been useful or needed.



going intangible when he was under KS to avoid his fucking death

there is your single instance


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> going intangible when he was under KS to avoid his fucking death
> 
> there is your single instance



-Going intangible
-when there's already a fucking sword through your heart


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> -Going intangible
> -when there's already a fucking sword through your heart



grasping at straws?

pretty obvious that I'm referring to avoid exactly that


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> grasping at straws?
> 
> pretty obvious that I'm referring to avoid exactly that


Grasping when you brought that example up.

Yeah he's going to avoid an instance he couldn't see or prepared for. You know because KS was fucking with him and all.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

>go intangible
>while your powers are blocked

should I make it a rule that you're not allowed to shitpost about yhwach unless you've actually read the chapter in question? 

that said I generally lean against Yhwach using abilities he didn't show, because lolkubo at full force and iirc that translation is notoriously spotty


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Stronger from something he never did or had any huge evidence in doing? Anything short of Vegeta's Galick Gun in terms of hype isn't getting planet level from statements especially when it's over time.





Sablés said:


> Souls that maintain the balance = Confirmed Planetary energy source (at LEAST)
> Yhwach and the soul King = Their moderators and containers
> 
> When Yhwach decides to destroy the worlds, he does not do this by disrupting the balance of souls. The point is that he uses his own power to do it (When the BoS is perfectly capable of achieving the same goal) suggesting that he is > Balance of Souls. The only reason this is an argument is because the timeframe is unverifiable however that is only an issue because Uryu stopped him the instant he tried. At the end of the day, he is still actively manipulating, suppressing and exceeding planet-level energies



My take on it.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> Grasping when you brought that example up.
> 
> Yeah he's going to avoid an instance he couldn't see or prepared for. You know because KS was fucking with him and all.



that is the point

the moment he realized he can't rely on Almighty due to KS interfering he should have started using schrifts that he is supposed to have to guarantee his survival

guess what? he still relied on Almighty instead



Nighty said:


> >go intangible
> >while your powers are blocked
> 
> should I make it a rule that you're not allowed to shitpost about yhwach unless you've actually read the chapter in question?



you should make a rule to actually read what you are responding to first before shitposting

because what I was referring to was not the instance when his powers were blocked thanks to plotarrow, but when he was under KS


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## TigerCatFish (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Gonna say Yhwach in a hard fight, he is probably stronger and more versatile than her, in speed terms they should be around the same lv, and if Kaguya kill him he can always come back. Not much she can do really.


How is he stronger?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> because what I was referring to was not the instance when his powers were blocked thanks to plotarrow, but when he was under KS





learn to make a logically cohesive argument then

at no point would it have been better to phase through that attack (it was actually already in him but w/e we'll ignore this) than just tank it using the almighty. By doing it the way he did Yhwach got Aizen to turn KS off completely and then oneshotted him, which is far better than just having to be intangible forever while waiting for one of them to make a mistake.

Since you were responding to a post that asked when it would have been better to use one of those abilities and listed the time he died, I made the obvious assumption that you meant the time when it would have actually been better and not, you know, a time when it would have been far worse


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> you should make a rule to actually read what you are responding to first before shitposting
> 
> because what I was referring to was not the instance when his powers were blocked thanks to plotarrow, but when he was under KS


The reaction time necessary for this makes your argument spotty. Ichigo was already attacking Yhwach before he even realized it

I get the conservative angle but this doesn't work when we have an identical instance for Yhwach not using ZnT when it would have benefited him. 

This goes double for when Yhwach could have just intended to role with the almighty knowing it would revive him.


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> that is the point
> 
> the moment he realized he can't rely on Almighty due to KS interfering he should have started using something else that would guarantee his survival
> 
> guess what? he still relied on Almighty instead



Realize what DT?

Yhwach always knew he was under KS,  he just made the assumption that he could see through it and therefore it was no threat to him. In the situation there's no need to go intagible. At no point did some realization him him that he can't rely on the almighty he's a dumbasses like that.

It was plain arrogance on his part really.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Nighty said:


> learn to make a logically cohesive argument then
> 
> at no point would it have been better to phase through that attack (it was actually already in him but w/e we'll ignore this) than just tank it using the almighty. By doing it the way he did Yhwach got Aizen to turn KS off completely and then oneshotted him, which is far better than just having to be intangible forever while waiting for one of them to make a mistake.
> 
> Since you were responding to a post that asked when it would have been better to use one of those abilities and listed the time he died, I made the obvious assumption that you meant the time when it would have actually been better and not, you know, a time when it would have been far worse



except I actually specified the time he was under KS in that very post:



DarkTorrent said:


> going intangible when he was under KS to avoid his fucking death
> 
> there is your single instance



so next time before accusing someone of failing of making a cohensive arguement make sure that it's not your reading comprehension that is failing

ok?

as for your "Almighty was better" point I'll adress it together with Stables's one



Sablés said:


> The reaction time necessary for this makes your argument spotty. Ichigo was already attacking Yhwach before he even realized he realized it.
> 
> I get the conservative angle but this doesn't work when we have an identical instance for Yhwach not using ZnT when it would have benefited him.



your ZnT example doesn't work because he already has that kind of firepower with out it



> This goes double for when Yhwach could have just intended to role with the almighty knowing it would revive him.



but the problem is that's stupid

why would he role with that option when he knows that KS is affecting his Almighty to a point that he can't tell what is real and what is not even with Almighty? how could he know that the possibility of him being "alive" that he saw and in the end made into reality thanks to the Almighty was actually real and not an illusion created with KS?

you are basically saying that he went with an option that had high chances of failing thanks to KS interference, instead of going with something much more reliable, because aparently that is a smart thing to do



Lucino said:


> Realize what DT?
> 
> Yhwach always knew he was under KS, he just made the assumption that he could see through it and therefore it was no threat to him. In the situation there's no need to go intagible. At no point did some realization him him that he can't rely on the almighty he's a dumbasses like that.
> 
> It was plain arrogance on his part really.



and we are back to PIS

basically where we started

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> except I actually specified the time he was under KS in that very post:



>trying to create an argument surrounding an irrelevant point to distract from the fact that your main thrust is blunt



DarkTorrent said:


> why would he role with that option when he knows that KS is affecting his Almighty to a point that he can't tell what is real and what is not even with Almighty? how could he know that the possibility of him being "alive" that he saw and in the end made into reality thanks to the Almighty was actually real and not an illusion created with KS?
> 
> you are basically saying that he went with an option that had high chances of failing thanks to KS interference, instead of going with something much more reliable, because aparently that is a smart thing to do



How the fuck

It's literally impossible for him to get gooned (in the context of bleach) by aizen here, there's was a 0% chance of failure from the Almighty in regards to *keeping him alive*

look you're basically arguing that going intangible to avoid an attack is better than regenerating from an attack by cancelling your own death, there is literally no difference in terms of where Yhwach ends up (alive and well) and the second option also has the capacity to lull aizen and ichigo into a false sense of security which the first one doesn't

either come up with a reason for why it would make *significantly more* sense to go intangible or stop trying to argue this foolish point which has been debunked in about three different ways


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

Dartg, can you even do that now that you're a mod? 


DarkTorrent said:


> your ZnT example doesn't work because he already has that kind of firepower with out it



Defensive firewall that passively deters everything that comes near the man and hinders them just by standing near it. At worst, Yhwach had an extra layer of fire power, at best he could have eradicated a beat down Ichigo (who at this point had trouble running) with the ambient heat of the Bankai. The point is that ANYTHING Yhwach could have done would have been preferable to doing nothing which is what you're implying he chose to as he had no other abilities besides his own. The only other explanation is that Yhwach was hell bent on sticking with his own Schrift.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Dartg, can you even do that now that you're a mod?



school nerds?

yes


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

Nighty said:


> school nerds?
> 
> yes


Get demoted already 

That aside



> Souls that maintain the balance = Confirmed Planetary energy source (at LEAST)
> Yhwach and the soul King = Their moderators and containers
> 
> When Yhwach decides to destroy the worlds, he does not do this by disrupting the balance of souls. The point is that he uses his own power to do it (When the BoS is perfectly capable of achieving the same goal) suggesting that he is > Balance of Souls. The only reason this is an argument is because the timeframe is unverifiable however that is only an issue because Uryu stopped him the instant he tried. At the end of the day, he is still actively manipulating, suppressing and exceeding planet-level energies



Still kind of want an answer to this. Whether or not its refuted is fine. Its a different story to ignore it altogether and


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Nighty said:


> >trying to create an argument surrounding an irrelevant point to distract from the fact that your main thrust is blunt



I'm adressing the accusations that you've made in regards to me

are you suggesting I should ignore your attacks on my persona that are actually based on you own damn fault?

your accusations were completely unfounded and it were failures on your part that led to this arguement, but instead of admitting them you continue attacking me

sasuga, Nighty



Nighty said:


> How the fuck
> 
> It's literally impossible for him to get gooned (in the context of bleach) by aizen here, there's was a 0% chance of failure from the Almighty in regards to *keeping him alive*
> 
> ...



my arguement that KS made Almighty completely unreliable in regards of keeping him alive

basically that there was a chance that him regenerating from an attack by cancelling his own death might not even happen because of a possibility that the future where that happens is actually an illusion created by KS

I'll clarify:

KS affected the Almighty, that's what we know

as I understand it affected the "futures he sees", the grains of sand or whatever, making at least some of them actually an illusion created by KS, that is why Almighty failed to warn him about KS

do you agree with this?

if yes, then how could Yhwach be sure that the future he picks and makes a reality in order for him to lolnope his death is actually real and not an illusion under these circumstances?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> my arguement that KS made Almighty completely unreliable in regards of keeping him alive



how? Disguising things in the future doesn't prevent the fact that Yhwach can ressurect himself, Aizen can't STOP him for ressurecting and there's always going to be a future that Yhwach can swap to where that happens



DarkTorrent said:


> basically that there was a chance that him regenerating from an attack by cancelling his own death might not even happen because of a possibility that the future where that happens is actually an illusion created by KS



there is literally no chance of this, KS isn't CHANGING the future and Aizen has no idea that this is even something Yhwach can do (as evidenced by the fact he didn't even attempt it) even if he picked one where his own Resurrection was an illusion (this is utterly nonsensical but okay) then the worst that happens is he doesn't come back to life... for another millisecond until he picks an alternate future where he did.



DarkTorrent said:


> as I understand it affected the "futures he sees", the grains of sand or whatever, making at least some of them actually an illusion created by KS, that is why Almighty failed to warn him about KS



no, what KS is hiding is what happens in those futures 



DarkTorrent said:


> if yes, then how could Yhwach be sure that the future he picks and makes a reality in order for him to lolnope his death is actually real and not an illusion under these circumstances?



because his own state of being alive isn't something aizen can make an illusion of, it's not like we're picking between red and green here what you're suggesting is that Aizen could cast KS on someone who was dead to trick them into thinking they were alive even when they weren't. Besides which, as I said, Aizen had no idea this was even possible and didn't even attempt it.


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## Brolypotence (Jul 30, 2016)

Ywach gonna get that rabbit booty


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Uh how can Ywach even hurt her? And what's stopping Kaguya from just dropping him in the acid dimension without him being able to return?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> I'll clarify:
> 
> KS affected the Almighty, that's what we know
> 
> ...



He was aware of KS but he though he could see trough it.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Defensive firewall that passively deters everything that comes near the man and hinders them just by standing near it. At worst, Yhwach had an extra layer of fire power, at best he could have eradicated a beat down Ichigo (who at this point had trouble running) with the ambient heat of the Bankai. The point is that ANYTHING Yhwach could have done would have been preferable to doing nothing which is what you're implying he chose to as he had no other abilities besides his own. The only other explanation is that Yhwach was hell bent on sticking with his own Schrift.



if you insist on including ZnT into the list, then go for it 



Nighty said:


> how? Disguising things in the future doesn't prevent the fact that Yhwach can ressurect himself, Aizen can't STOP him for ressurecting and there's always going to be a future that Yhwach can swap to where that happens



yes, in theory there is always at least one possibility where that actually happens



Nighty said:


> there is literally no chance of this, KS isn't CHANGING the future and Aizen has no idea that this is even something Yhwach can do (as evidenced by the fact he didn't even attempt it) even if he picked one where his own Resurrection was an illusion (this is utterly nonsensical but okay)



I never claimed that KS changes the future

and you are right about Aizen not knowing that Yhwach can resurrect himself so he wouldn't create an illusion where Yhwach does just that

but that is not how it actually happens, Yhwach didn't really pick a future where he resurrects, he picked a future where he is shown to be still alive ultimately resurrecting himself

and that KS is able to do, show someone to be alive when he really isn't

though technically that would also require for Aizen to create such a vision with a purpose that he wouldn't logically have, since he doesn't know the extent of Almighty's powers

but my point was never really about the actual extent Aizen's interference with what KS is showing, but about what kind of effect it could have on Almighty's reliability in Yhwach's eyes in that situation

I'll elaborate on it later



> then the worst that happens is he doesn't come back to life... for another millisecond until he picks an alternate future where he did.



that's speculative though

breaching into NLF teritorry

it's not some superlotto that Yhwach can play over and over and over

it's possible that tricking Yhwach into picking a future where he is actually dead and making it into reality is a way to kill him for good

or maybe it's not

like I've said - completely speculative



Nighty said:


> no, what KS is hiding is what happens in those futures



the contents of the futures he sees, yes



Nighty said:


> because his own state of being alive isn't something aizen can make an illusion of, it's not like we're picking between red and green here what you're suggesting is that Aizen could cast KS on someone who was dead to trick them into thinking they were alive even when they weren't. Besides which, as I said, Aizen had no idea this was even possible and didn't even attempt it.



what I am suggesting that Aizen can change the contents of a vision of the future where Yhwach is actually dead to show him that he is still alive there

and this has nothing to do with "current" Yhwach's state of being alive or dead, because that Yhwach in the vision (regardless of his state) is not this Yhwach, at least not yet, it's his future version, so Aizen's not tricking a dead person into thinking he is alive, he is tricking an apparently dead person that is still somehow able to see possible futures and decide which one to pick into seeing a vision of a future where he is still alive, when he really isn't

though this does bring the question as to when exactly did Yhwach made that future into reality, when he was already dead or right before his death

if he was already dead, then I have no idea how it's possible unless Yhwach is still able to exist as a spirit for a time and use his abilities, or that Almighty is able to do it automatically for him once he's dead

anyway, back to my main point

the actual extent of Aizen's tampering doesn't matter

what matters is at that point Yhwach didn't know which visions of the future are real and which had their contents tampered with and to what extent, thanks to KS

so him choosing to play a russian roulette of trial and error, instead of using some schrift, assuming he has them, that provide a 100% guarantee of survival does not make sense

unless

he knew that Aizen couldn't have tampered with visions where he is still alive, which I highly doubt because he was already proven that his assumptions in regards to KS power were false, don't think he will make the same mistake twice, he is not that stupid

or he knew for a fact that dying will break KS hold over him and what Almighty shows him, so he will be able to pick a future free of KS tampering and make it into reality while being dead

but this option still has the same problem as the above one

the only other option that makes sense, as in it doesn't rely on PIS, that I can think of is that he can only see the futures where he is still alive, which is why he knew that whatever future he picked he would be alive in it


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## KillerKing04 (Jul 30, 2016)

Yhwach ha stage almighty. It's a stomp in his favour


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jul 30, 2016)

You whack slowly bringing the cancer back.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> hat matters is at that point Yhwach didn't know which visions of the future are real and which had their contents tampered with and to what extent, thanks to KS
> 
> so him choosing to play a russian roulette of trial and error, instead of using some schrift, assuming he has them, that provide a 100% guarantee of survival does not make sense
> 
> ...



Ywach tough that all futures where real because he was under the impression that he had broken KS.

He didn't use a Scrift because he had already won,in his mind.


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> There has not been a single instance in the manga were another sternritter ability was more suited than his own abilities.
> 
> Against Ichibe? Not a single sternritter ability he possessed at the time could counter ichimonji, heck even know the only thing above it is the Almighty.




What? Gremmy and Nianzol was dead when Yhwach fought Ichibei. Are you saying that their abilities together wouldn't have helped Yhwach immensely against him?


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Kaguya doesn't have sharingan


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## LazyWaka (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Ends in Sex.


For once Dingell is right. Really though this fight is just one big headache. It really depends on whether or not IT works, otherwise the fight  would take forever.

God i hate typing on a smart phone.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 30, 2016)

Dark Passenger said:


> What? Gremmy and Nianzol was dead when Yhwach fought Ichibei. Are you saying that their abilities together wouldn't have helped Yhwach immensely against him?



yhwach was already fucked against ichibei because ichibei had removed all his powers and named him black ant

so the only power which he could even use was the almighty because it can salvage itself (or whatever)


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Kaguya doesn't have sharingan



No se necesita sharingan para el izanagi completo y además Kaguya tiene todo los poderes oculares como te pusieron GG.

Y hola por cierto Divell xd


*Spoiler*: __


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Uh how can Ywach even hurt her? And what's stopping Kaguya from just dropping him in the acid dimension without him being able to return?



1) He has the fire power to hurt her. 
2) He can move between dimensions, so that trick wouldn't work.


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 30, 2016)

Nighty said:


> yhwach was already fucked against ichibei because ichibei had removed all his powers and named him black ant
> 
> so the only power which he could even use was the almighty because it can salvage itself (or whatever)



The moment Ichibei cut Yhwach's power in half, those 2 abilities would have made a difference since Yhwach knew what Ichibei's Zanpaktou was capable of.

But Yhwach still didn't use them, got his throat crushed, and was named Black Ant for his troubles.

He had a great chance to display Sternritter abilities is what I'm saying.


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

Also, where is the feedback for Liquid's post about Bach maintaining the balance of souls?


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> 1) He has the fire power to hurt her.



She is inmortal, regeneration, full izanagi not Danzou's izanagi.



Hamaru said:


> 2) , so that trick wouldn't work.



Obito can move between dimensions but he can't in Kaguya's dimensions.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

Dark Passenger said:


> The moment Ichibei cut Yhwach's power in half, those 2 abilities would have made a difference since Yhwach knew what Ichibei's Zanpaktou was capable of.
> 
> But Yhwach still didn't use them, got his throat crushed, and was named Black Ant for his troubles.
> 
> He had a great chance to display Sternritter abilities is what I'm saying.



He needed to sleep to get the powers,so at least he didn't had Nianzol's,and he did show reality warping and also must possess Gerard and Pernida's powers as that was all natural SK powers.



rmdominguez22 said:


> She is inmortal, regeneration, full izanagi not Danzou's izanagi.



Useless since event negation failed to fix Zangetsu.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> 1) He has the fire power to hurt her.
> 2) He can move between dimensions, so that trick wouldn't work.


1. No he doesn't. Ywach is stuck at Country level. Kaguya is multi-continent in durability, if not higher.
2. When did he do it on Kaguya's scale?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 1. No he doesn't. Ywach is stuck at Country level. Kaguya is multi-continent in durability, if not higher.



He at the very least has Pernida's durability ignoring nerves.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 2. When did he do it on Kaguya's scale?



Is a basic ability in Bleach.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He at the very least has Pernida's durability ignoring nerves.


When has it ever affected ANYTHING that was as strong as Kaguya? Seriously, sometimes raw power beats hax.




> Is a basic ability in Bleach.


Space-time is a basic ability in Naruto, but Kaguya literally creates entire planets for her dimensions and they're extremely far from each other. I don't think Ywach is on her scale.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Useless since event negation failed to fix Zangetsu.



Izanagi change disadvantages for advantages, with it can.

This is incomplete izanagi, Kaguya has full izanagi.


*Spoiler*: __


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Space-time is a basic ability in Naruto, but Kaguya literally creates entire planets for her dimensions and they're extremely far from each other. I don't think Ywach is on her scale.



There are stars and planets, in OVA of Naruto Hokage, you can see canon picture of the sand dimension.

This pictures have done for Kishi, special moment for OVA.

Kaguya can destroy the dimension.



Mint 9:34 for this image.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> When has it ever affected ANYTHING that was as strong as Kaguya? Seriously, sometimes raw power beats hax.



He's planet level too,but anyway.

It's her own strength twisting her body into a ball.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Space-time is a basic ability in Naruto, but Kaguya literally creates entire planets for her dimensions and they're extremely far from each other. I don't think Ywach is on her scale.



He was holding 3 worlds with his power.




rmdominguez22 said:


> Izanagi change disadvantages for advantages, with it can.
> 
> This is incomplete izanagi, Kaguya has full izanagi.



Useless since is cost her an eye every time.

Also Allmighty wouldn't allow her to,since it would change to a future where he already killed her.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He's planet level too,but anyway.
> 
> It's her own strength twisting her body into a ball.


lol, Ywach planet level? He's stuck at Country Level. He has no planet level feats. He has no CONTINENT level feats.




> He was holding 3 worlds with his power.


Kaguya was creating new planets and dimensions with ease. She has at least six.[/QUOTE]

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> She is inmortal, regeneration, full izanagi not Danzou's izanagi.
> 
> 
> 
> Obito can move between dimensions but he can't in Kaguya's dimensions.


Saying she can't be beaten because she is "immortal" is a NLF. People might think that simply because nobody had the fire power to put her down. 

No. Obito can move between HIS kamui dimension earth. That is it. 


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 1. No he doesn't. Ywach is stuck at Country level. Kaguya is multi-continent in durability, if not higher.
> 2. When did he do it on Kaguya's scale?


Denial. He has planet level DC, which is more than enough to put her down. It was stated 3-4 times that he could destroy all of the worlds. Plot just had the right arrow there to stop him at the right time. 

Do what on her level? She can create dimensions, he can freely move between them and merge worlds.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

who will outwank who?

accepting bets

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Denial. He has planet level DC, which is more than enough to put her down. It was stated 3-4 times that he could destroy all of the worlds. Plot just had the right arrow there to stop him at the right time.


There's no denial here. He has no Planet Level DC. He has no feats which come close. His best feat was country level, and that's where he's at.

Ywach can't literally destroy a planet, but he can destroy what was keeping Hueco Mundo, Human World, and Soul Society together. And now he's the linchpin. Kaguya? she can destroy planets since she has the feat for it.


> Do what on her level? She can create dimensions, he can freely move between them and merge worlds.


He can't cross the distance between her dimensions freely.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> who will outwank who?
> 
> accepting bets


50 on star-level Kaguya

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> No se necesita sharingan para el izanagi completo y además Kaguya tiene todo los poderes oculares como te pusieron GG.
> 
> Y hola por cierto Divell xd
> 
> ...


De hecho para usar el Izanagi, se necesita sacrificar un Sharinga. Hola XD.

damn, my bad.



TigerCatFish said:


> How is he stronger?


Casual country+ telepathy, casual island+ disintegration rays of doom, etc, etc. She is physically stronger (probably) but Yhwach has way more ways.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> lol, Ywach planet level? He's stuck at Country Level. He has no planet level feats. He has no CONTINENT level feats.



When SK was cut every realm was collapsing,the right arm stopped that,then was absorbed by Ywach, this last chapter he was about to mix two worlds into one.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kaguya was creating new planets and dimensions with ease. She has at least six.


[/QUOTE]

Are you implying universal level Kaguya?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Casual country+ telepathy, casual island+ disintegration rays of doom, etc, etc. She is physically stronger (probably) but Yhwach has way more ways.


Divell, she's planet level with casual moon and multi-continent. Ywach is weaker.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Hamaru (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> There's no denial here. He has no Planet Level DC. He has no feats which come close. His best feat was country level, and that's where he's at.
> 
> Ywach can't literally destroy a planet, but he can destroy what was keeping Hueco Mundo, Human World, and Soul Society together. And now he's the linchpin. Kaguya? she can destroy planets since she has the feat for it.
> 
> He can't cross the distance between her dimensions freely.



This last chapter showed that the comments about him being able to destroy the worlds had NOTHING to do with his ability to disrupt the balance. He was going to do so with his own power. People are really trying to make this more complicated than it should be. 

Nothing suggest that her dimensions would alter his ability to jump between them.


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Divell, she's planet level with casual moon and multi-continent. Ywach is weaker.


Gonna go with statements? Cause Yhwach is planet+ easily.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> When SK was cut every realm was collapsing,the right arm stopped that,then was absorbed by Ywach, this last chapter he was about to mix two worlds into one.


The Soul King was the linchpin of three worlds. Killing him wasn't literally destroying the world. Doing what Ywach did there required country level of power, it got calced that way.



> Are you implying universal level Kaguya?


Hell no.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> This last chapter showed that the comments about him being able to destroy the worlds had NOTHING to do with his ability to disrupt the balance. He was going to do so with his own power. People are really trying to make this more complicated than it should be.
> 
> Nothing suggest that her dimensions would alter his ability to jump between them.


The latest chapter also shows Ywach doing nothing on that level of power, Hamaru. He has no feats of actually destroying planets. You do realize that, right? Kaguya at least created a giant attack that can destroy one. Ywach? He has done ZIP to live up to that hype.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Gonna go with statements? Cause Yhwach is planet+ easily.


We have feats of God Tiers in Naruto being at least Continent. Kaguya's attack had more than enough power to destroy the world they were on, it was caled that way. Divell, your bleach wank and Naruto downplay is pathetic. Ywach isn't and has never been planet level.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Sablés said:


> 50 on star-level Kaguya



anyone else?


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> We have feats of God Tiers in Naruto being at least Continent. Kaguya's attack had more than enough power to destroy the world they were on, it was caled that way. Divell, your bleach wank and Naruto downplay is pathetic. Yhwach isn't and has never been planet level.


We have feat of who? Toneri who fought against a more stronger Naruto? Madara with Rinnegan, Kaguya's dimension buster power never was released and was when absorbing all the chakra of the people under the tree's influence, that's all, Yhwach was actually going to destroy the planet they were on, which was shown in the first movie to be on the same size as earth.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> anyone else?



Bout tree fiddy it ends in sex.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> We have feat of who? Toneri who fought against a more stronger Naruto? Madara with Rinnegan, Kaguya's dimension buster power never was released and was when absorbing all the chakra of the people under the tree's influence, that's all, Yhwach was actually going to destroy the planet they were on, which was shown in the first movie to be on the same size as earth.


Juubi. It was shooting out continent-level attacks right from the get go. Madara with the Rinnegan has a MOON level feat (Chibaku Tensei spam). Kaguya's dimension buster was calced to be a planet buster from its sheer size and scale. Ywach wasn't going to destroy the planet and a MOVIE ISN'T CANON IN BLEACH. Seriously Divell, your Bleach wank makes you the most disliked poster in the OBD>

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> Bout tree fiddy it ends in sex.



between who?

the characters or the wankers?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The Soul King was the linchpin of three worlds. Killing him wasn't literally destroying the world. Doing what Ywach did there required country level of power, it got calced that way.



Country Level was for the telekinesis.
The linchpin thing was until this week when he was going to reshape two worlds into one instead of letting them collapse themselves by doing nothing.
He either:
_Can affect the worlds with his own power.
_Can use the energy that holds them as his own power to accomplish something.

Same result.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Country Level was for the telekinesis.
> The linchpin thing was until this week when he was going to reshape two worlds into one instead of letting them collapse themselves by doing nothing.
> He either:
> _Can affect the worlds with his own power.
> ...


Until he actually DOES something like that (which won't happen) that's just mindless hyperbole.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Juubi. It was shooting out continent-level attacks right from the get go. Madara with the Rinnegan has a MOON level feat (Chibaku Tensei spam). Kaguya's dimension buster was calced to be a planet buster from its sheer size and scale. Ywach wasn't going to destroy the planet and a MOVIE ISN'T CANON IN BLEACH. Seriously Divell, your Bleach wank makes you the most disliked poster in the OBD>


Country+, not continent, Madara with Rinnegan has continent at best, not moon, Kaguya's dimension buster can't be calced considering is a fucking Truth Seeking Orb, not a bijuu dama or anything. And yes the movie is canon, or do I  need to bring the chapter? and seriously, considering you are the one that was saying stupidities of Bleach selling being the worst in the Shonen Jump, I can't really take you for real.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Lucino (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> between who?
> 
> the characters or the wankers?



Look like it's a 4 way.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That attack isn't anywhere near planetbusting. Not even close Divell.


He never finished it.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

Lucino said:


> Look like it's a 4 way.



I really hope they use protection because I don't think the world is ready to handle the spawn of such an unholy union

Reactions: Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Country+, not continent, Madara with Rinnegan has continent at best, not moon, Kaguya's dimension buster can't be calced considering is a fucking Truth Seeking Orb, not a bijuu dama or anything. And yes the movie is canon, or do I  need to bring the chapter? and seriously, considering you are the one that was saying stupidities of Bleach selling being the worst in the Shonen Jump, I can't really take you for real.


1. They were continent level. It was an accepted figure. Your calcs did nothing but downplay.
2. Madara with the Rinnegan was calced to be Moon level by LazyWaka himself.
3. The Gudodama was said to have enough power to destroy the planet, and was calced as such.
4. No, none of the movies are canon. Only wankers think they are for Bleach

And Bleach is selling really, really badly. Especially right now.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 30, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Saying she can't be beaten because she is "immortal" is a NLF. People might think that simply because nobody had the fire power to put her down.



She can use izanagi and as Obito with Rikudou's powers and Rinnegan powers, she can return of her death.



Hamaru said:


> No. Obito can move between HIS kamui dimension earth. That is it.



No, he can't move freely for dimensions, he need use portals of Kaguya. In ice dimension he can't move by himself..

He can travel to every Kaguya's dimension in the first dimensions, this dimension is special, connect the all dimensions.



Divell said:


> De hecho para usar el Izanagi, se necesita sacrificar un Sharinga. Hola XD.



Eso es el izanagi incompleto, el completo no se sacrifica nada, Hagoromo lo usaba a menudo.


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> She can use izanagi and as Obito with Rikudou's powers and Rinnegan powers, she can return of her death.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah she has a Sharingan in the front.

Actually, since the begining in Bleach they are moving through dimension, real world, hueco mundo, seireitei, they can do that everywhere. 

Donde se dice que Izanagi fue usado a menudo?


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## SupremeKage (Jul 30, 2016)

Naruto ripped Kaguya's arm with ease, who's to say yhwach can't do the same? Kaguya is also extremely retarded taking orders from black goo 24/7

Yhwach takes this mid diff


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

SupremeKage said:


> Naruto ripped Kaguya's arm with ease, who's to say yhwach can't do the same? Kaguya is also extremely retarded taking orders from black goo 24/7
> 
> Yhwach takes this mid diff


Given that Ywach doesn't have the same level of strength nor speed that Naruto does? Naruto is continent+ in physical power, Ywach is Country level.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Until he actually DOES something like that (which won't happen) that's just mindless hyperbole.



There was a whole chapter about the worlds being destroyed.


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

SSM12 vs Divell

Handicap fight if I ever saw one

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 8


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There was a whole chapter about the worlds being destroyed.


More like the entire series is centered around that premise. It was realized back in the first 20 chapters


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## Chainwave (Jul 30, 2016)

What if Bach just punches her like Sakura did?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> There was a whole chapter about the worlds being destroyed.


And its still hyperbole until it actually happens. And even then, it'd probably be ruled out as an outlier (since country to planet level is a massive leap)

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SupremeKage (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Given that Ywach doesn't have the same level of strength nor speed that Naruto does? Naruto is continent+ in physical power, Ywach is Country level.


Kek don't be serious. You know damn well yhwach is near or possibly above naruto in physical strength. Not sure about speed though, that's debatable. So I'll give you that. And yhwach is not country level last time I checked... He's way above that.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

SupremeKage said:


> Kek don't be serious. You know damn well yhwach is near or possibly above naruto in physical strength. Not sure about speed though, that's debatable. So I'll give you that. And yhwach is not country level last time I checked... He's way above that.


No, he's not. Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto at least scales to Juubi Jin Obito when it comes to physical strength. The same guy who could tear apart a barrier that was strong enough to block a continent-level blast without ease. Ywach is country level.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

I'm surprised SSM doesn't mention Nardo punching through a moon cutting attack

or any other Last feat in general


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> I'm surprised SSM doesn't mention Nardo punching through a moon cutting attack
> 
> or any other Last feat in general


Since that Naruto is two years later.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

doesn't matter though since Ashura Nardo at his peak is still > the Last BSM Nardo

and Kaguya is still > the Last Nardo and Toneri


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> doesn't matter though since Ashura Nardo at his peak is still > the Last BSM Nardo
> 
> and Kaguya is still > the Last Nardo and Toneri


Asura Naruto at his peak was moon level. The Last BSM Naruto was Small Planet. Kaguya is still stronger, yep.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And its still hyperbole until it actually happens. And even then, it'd probably be ruled out as an outlier (since country to planet level is a massive leap)



So you are opposed to this idea no matter what.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> So you are opposed to this idea no matter what.
> 
> Should have said just that.


Until Ywach actually does something planet level, he isn't it. It'll either be hyperbole or outlier.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Asura Naruto at his peak was moon level. The Last BSM Naruto was Small Planet.



you can roll with that if you want

no more freebies from me then

you're on your own


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## Sablés (Jul 30, 2016)

I wonder why you guys are repeating what I've said but fail to say why it works. Just telling them X isn't going to get you anywhere.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> 1. They were continent level. It was an accepted figure. Your calcs did nothing but downplay.
> 2. Madara with the Rinnegan was calced to be Moon level by LazyWaka himself.
> 3. The Gudodama was said to have enough power to destroy the planet, and was calced as such.
> 4. No, none of the movies are canon. Only wankers think they are for Bleach
> ...



From a wrong calc, they were calculating from the root, coming out of the wrong hole. 
With the same error as above.
Which is the same as Yhwach.
Really, when did Ichigo went to Valley of scream? 
I debunked that notion, Bleach is in 22 right now. From a list of 50 mangas. But you love to ignore that, what can I say? Haters gonna hate.


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## Divell (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Until Ywach actually does something planet level, he isn't it. It'll either be hyperbole or outlier.


So would Kaguya's. Which she can't pull without absorbing the people's chakra in the Tsukuyomi.


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 31, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Think you're the one who needs to worry about that if the posts above are any indication



nah

I have already washed my hands of this shit

just here to spectate and eat popcorn


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> So would Kaguya's. Which she can't pull without absorbing the people's chakra in the Tsukuyomi.



It was her chakra in the first place though.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

Dark Passenger said:


> It was her chakra in the first place though.


It not really, she was simply the origin. When she came back, she was actually on the same lv that fought Hagoromo and Hamura. Big pops himself said Madara was near on Kaguya's lv. And we know for a fact Kaguya has more chakra than Madara.

Reactions: Like 4


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 31, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Until Ywach actually does something planet level, he isn't it. It'll either be hyperbole or outlier.



Have you read Dragon Ball

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Hamaru (Jul 31, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And its still hyperbole until it actually happens. And even then, it'd probably be ruled out as an outlier (since country to planet level is a massive leap)



People, this post right here should be the only thing you need to see to realize how pointless this debate is.

Reactions: Like 2


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 31, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Have you read Dragon Ball


Yeah. Dragon Ball has tons of planet busting feats. Bleach does not.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> It not really, she was simply the origin. When she came back, she was actually on the same lv that fought Hagoromo and Hamura. Big pops himself said Madara was near on Kaguya's lv. And we know for a fact Kaguya has more chakra than Madara.














Um, no. Madara was trying to get on Kaguya's level. He was nowhere near it according to Naruto and Sasuke.

All the chakra in Naruto is hers. Her literal rebirth required all the chakra of everyone caught in IT. 

Her final though was that she was defeated by mere pieces of her power for a reason.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

Dark Passenger said:


> Um, no. Madara was trying to get on Kaguya's level. He was nowhere near it according to Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> All the chakra in Naruto is hers. Her literal rebirth required all the chakra of everyone caught in IT.
> 
> Her final though was that she was defeated by mere pieces of her power for a reason.


Once again no. Is said right in there, Madara was already on Hagoromo's lv and was going to obtain Kaguya's. You haven't really debunked anything I said, simply give me the proof I needed. She sees everyone as pieces of her chakra, she is simply the origin, is like a seed which give births to tree and the tree becomes more seeds, the original seed is the one where they come from. Thats all.


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## Dark Passenger (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> Once again no. Is said right in there, Madara was already on Hagoromo's lv and was going to obtain Kaguya's. You haven't really debunked anything I said, simply give me the proof I needed. She sees everyone as pieces of her chakra, she is simply the origin, is like a seed which give births to tree and the tree becomes more seeds, the original seed is the one where they come from. Thats all.



Besides you switching up from saying that Madara was on Kaguya's level to Hagoromo's......




Whose chakra was dispersed to the populace?


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

Dark Passenger said:


> Besides you switching up from saying that Madara was on Kaguya's level to Hagoromo's......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad. I simply confused Kaguya and Hagoromo.
Hagoromo was the one who give access to chakra to everyone, not kaguya.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 31, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Yeah. Dragon Ball has tons of planet busting feats. Bleach does not.



They went from island to planet without any significant training.

Outlier ?


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jul 31, 2016)

OP should have put the location as the moon.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 31, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> They went from island to planet without any significant training.
> 
> Outlier ?


Nope. Since we saw the progress, we got a moon busting feat in between, and we see the huge amount of training that Goku did.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> They went from island to planet without any significant training.




Except there's a four to five year gap in between the tournament and the start of saiyan Saga and Goku and Piccolo never stopped training. Specially Piccolo who still wanted to defeat Goku.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 31, 2016)

yeah, citing DB isn't the best way to support the "it's not an outlier" argument

the situation in Bleach and DB are completely different


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## Sablés (Jul 31, 2016)

Outlier suggests a feat doesn't fit the context.

That's exactly what isn't being suggested here. That and making an outlier for the strongest in the verse based on casual showings in a weaker form is frankly retarded


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 31, 2016)

careful Stools

you might get dragged in into this


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## Sablés (Jul 31, 2016)

I won't be.

Convincing tards isn't my strong suit, its for anyone else who might get silly ideas


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 31, 2016)

Sablés said:


> its for anyone else who might get silly ideas



why do I feel like you are implying me? 

I'm innocent


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> It just looks like a lot of ink was spilled to me.


What do you think Kaguya's ball was?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ATastyMuffin (Jul 31, 2016)

so uh any consensus on this fight?

My impression is that they both have the DC to kill each other, it might come down to who's faster


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## DarkTorrent (Jul 31, 2016)

> consensus

try asking that in a month or two

after we will have a couple more threads like these

which we will, I don't need Almighty to know that

though there is a huge possiblity that this match up will be banned before something resembling a consensus will be ever reached

and good riddance I say


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## Hamaru (Jul 31, 2016)

No need to ban this fight. We just need special OBD classes.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Nope. Since we saw the progress, we got a moon busting feat in between, and we see the huge amount of training that Goku did.


We got casual island+ Kenpachi Shikai, with a huge amount of difference from there to Bankai, same Kenpachi was literally grabbing reality and breaking through it just as casual. Yhwach being planetary lv, is actually pretty normal considering most of the shit they did. Besides same happened with Naruto, from town to city to country to continent to moon+ and even planet. Power lvs don't need to be consistent when it comes to FINAL VILLAIN and MC.


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## trance (Jul 31, 2016)

Whoever wins, quality is lost.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## TigerCatFish (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> We got casual island+ Kenpachi Shikai, with a huge amount of difference from there to Bankai, same Kenpachi was literally grabbing reality and breaking through it just as casual. Yhwach being planetary lv, is actually pretty normal considering most of the shit they did. Besides same happened with Naruto, from town to city to country to continent to moon+ and even planet. Power lvs don't need to be consistent when it comes to FINAL VILLAIN and MC.


Not to get into the whole argument but how is Town>City>Mountain-Island>Country>Contient>Moon>Planet a bad progression? ...


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jul 31, 2016)

Both merge into one being at the end, regardless.

No winner is where it will end up otherwise.

Both should just go home and be defeated by the MC's.


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## AllAboveOne (Jul 31, 2016)

So have you people made your mind ...is Yhwach Planet level or not?


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jul 31, 2016)

The fact without the SK, the worlds would remerge as one, goes back to the old "SK is a pipe that simply maintains the flow to the point it doesn't happen".

It's hard to give him planet level when that is more attached to the combined mass of all the souls that reside in the SS and Real World and the SK power maintains that stability someway.

Do we give Mimihagi Planet level too?

Because that Right Arm also stopped the worlds from merging as one whole, too.


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## Revan Reborn (Jul 31, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> The fact without the SK, the worlds would remerge as one, goes back to the old "SK is a pipe that simply maintains the flow to the point it doesn't happen".
> 
> It's hard to give him planet level when that is more attached to the combined mass of all the souls that reside in the SS and Real World and the SK power maintains that stability someway.
> 
> ...



We weren't sure if,  the energy could be applied in combat or destruction, untill this recent chapter. Where it shows that his own power is at that level and can.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jul 31, 2016)

slayedigneel said:


> We weren't sure if,  the energy could be applied in combat or destruction, untill this recent chapter. Where it shows that *his own power is at that level and can*.


What?

With the SK gone, the worlds started to merge by themselves, it would make more sense that Juha _stopped_ using the SK power to prevent the worlds from merging, rather than actively _enabling_ it's power and _forcing_ them together.

Or are you saying that Almighty Juha, without the SK added to him, can forcefully merge them as one?

Why would he absorb the SK first, if he could just merge them without it.

Clearly he absorbed the SK because it maintains that balance and only then, did he want and have the say to let the worlds merge.

...Which would have started to happen naturally, since when the SK got cut in half the worlds were starting to merge, until Mimihagi stopped it.

Does that mean Mimihagi becomes Planet level for the very same reasons people are pushing Juha to be?

The Bleach-verse is unstable and needs to have the SK "alive" to be able to stabilize the dimensions from merging, while on the other hand Kaguya's dimensions survive without her and she has the benefit of being the one who created them in the first place.

The SK's power doesn't even control the dimensions directly, outside of making sure the Balance of Souls is maintained which somehow prevents the worlds from merging.


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## FrozenFeathers (Jul 31, 2016)

Yhwach is clearly multi continent level, arguably he is planet level due to how confidently he talked about destroying SS, HM and human world.

However multi continent is all he needs to destroy autistic alien bitch.
Naruto and co damaged Kaguya while not having DC on her level.
Yhwach has hax, intelligence and speed to deal with her autism.

Also Yhwach cant be BFR'ed and he is harder to kill that Kaguya. He can 're write' futures where he died.
Think of it as getting unlimited 'continue from last save' after he gets 'game over' every time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

A wild poke.... Yhwack wanker appeared!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## FrozenFeathers (Jul 31, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> A wild poke.... Yhwack wanker appeared!


You cant talk.
You are a part of the autistic group of clowns that accepted mach 45k nardoverse.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> You cant talk.
> You are a part of the autistic group of clowns that accepted mach 45k nardoverse.


Except I didn't accept that

you are confusing me with someone else. The one I acknowedge was the feat from the last movie. Which I am pretty sure never achieve that kind of number

If it did I wasn't a part of it considering the one I have a knowledge of is around Mach 10k+ or lesser.

I am also pretty sure you are the one who opened that shit in one of the posted thread here.

It was I think in a Bleach vs whitebeard thread IIRC.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 31, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> xcept there's a four to five year gap in between the tournament and the start of saiyan Saga and Goku and Piccolo never stopped training. Specially Piccolo who still wanted to defeat Goku



Thats true but it wasn't significant at all in the sense that Goku expended a lot of time with Gohan and working his farm while Piccolowas mainly developing makankossapo,wich is why their power level didn't grow a lot.

They simply became moon level with the equivalent effort of doing a few push ups each day because that's wat shonen mangas do.

Is the same in Ywach case where the difference between his previous showings in weaker forms and his current maximum possible level isn' in itself a valid argument to claim what hi does to be an outlier.

Also,this whole last arc was about saving the worlds from being destroyed so it isn't something without a context.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> wich is why their power level didn't grow a lot.



I'm just going to point out that we have zilch of a clue of their power level prior to saiyan Saga. So how you are getting your comparison  is beyond me to determine and had a conclusion that their power level didn't grew a lot.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> this whole last arc was about saving the worlds from being destroyed



I'm just going to say this doesn't justify any of your claim for planet level Yhwach because 99.9999~% of fiction does this and 99.9999~% of them don't even come close to planet level for it.

 there are a lot of fiction out there with the same theme of destruction of a planet and the hero killing the villain to save the so called planet and not everyone of them becomes planet level just because of it.




lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Is the same in Ywach case where the difference between his previous showings in weaker forms and his current maximum possible level isn' in itself a valid argument to claim what hi does to be an outlier.



I'm not the one arguing that it was an outlier. you are talking to the wrong guy most likely.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 31, 2016)

Yhwach is pretty much featless, because most of bleach is featless.
Vague bullshit is vague.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## FrozenFeathers (Jul 31, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Except I didn't accept that
> 
> you are confusing me with someone else. The one I acknowedge was the feat from the last movie. Which I am pretty sure never achieve that kind of number
> If it did I wasn't a part of it considering the one I have a knowledge of is around Mach 10k+ or lesser.
> ...


I made a thread where one eyed Kakashi beat Whitebeard back in those days.
Also Sakura almost beat Whitebeard too, but the thread got locked before the cancer spread.

Anyway, Kaguya got beat by people with far less DC than her.
Also cutting through the moon does not equal the energy to pulverize and destroy the moon.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

pretty sure I don't really care about your circumstances.

Just don't throw your shit to me and claimed that I was the one doing that kind of shit when it was you who had done it.





FrozenFeathers said:


> Also cutting through the moon does not equal the energy to pulverize and destroy the moon.



That has never been my argument.

 you are again talking about shit I never even talked about.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> During Raditz fight Goku is superior and was between 350-400 i think?



It was closer around 1000. 

300 and 400 is them suppressing their power.

Gohan is closer to 1500 or something


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 31, 2016)

That was Kamehameha.

Makankosappo was 1200.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

It was an energy that came from their body.

again Z fighter has control to how much of their power level they can use,.

as shown when Ginyu tried to take over Goku's body.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> Also cutting through the moon does not equal the energy to pulverize and destroy the moon.



Might as well entertain this thought.

Depending on an outcome cutting the moon can and might net you planet level energies.

there are multiple factors for it.

the major ones are.

- Expansion speed. How fast did the parts of the moon fly off.
- Expansion distance. How far apart they are from their initial position.

there's also the factor of gravity.

a split moon would still gravitate toward the center of it if they are close enough so a question of, How long did it took for the moon to go back to its original form could also provide you with energies surpassing normal moon level


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## FrozenFeathers (Jul 31, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> - Expansion speed. How fast did the parts of the moon fly off.
> - Expansion distance. How far apart they are from their initial position.
> 
> there's also the factor of gravity.
> ...


You can also say that for a wall.
If you can toss a wall into Adromeda you probably have more energy than blowing up a planet.

We will never get Yhwach true DC cause very soon Bleach would be no more.


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## shade0180 (Jul 31, 2016)

FrozenFeathers said:


> If you can toss a wall into Adromeda you probably have more energy than blowing up a planet.




except that won't happen normally.. atmospheric interference is a thing. your wall would most likely disintegrate before it can even leave the planet with that kind of force..


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Jul 31, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> It was an energy that came from their body.
> 
> again Z fighter has control to how much of their power level they can use,.
> 
> as shown when Ginyu tried to take over Goku's body.



That was a later countermeasure to scooters,during the Raditz fight their powerlevels are 408 and 416,kamehameha was 924 and makankosappo 1330 simply because they focused alot of energy in a single point.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 31, 2016)

Keep up the posts about dragonball and other shit guys. It will give me a great excuse to lock this thread for going off topic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hamaru (Jul 31, 2016)

On Topic

The purpose of the Soul King was to maintain the balance of souls between all of the world's. Shinigami helped with this process by sending earth souls to SS, and souls in SS would be born into the earth world (as Rukia explained it). So in reality, SS was the one bringing in the balance between earth and SS souls. Quincy were the ones who messed that balance up, and I'm not sure what role HM plays in it all; however, if the balance is there, everything should be fine. The fact that everything went to shit the second that the SK died is an indication that the balance wasn't fine, and everything was being kept together by his power. When the worlds started to fall apart, Mimi came through and acted as the new source that kept the worlds together INSTANTLY. There was no shown re balancing process that took place. 

Bach took the power of both, the SK, and Mimi, whom both held the world's together while there was a clear unbalance between the worlds at the time (likely due to the Quincy army).


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## ~M~ (Jul 31, 2016)

Since this match is decidedly unclear I would argue bach is stronger than Sauce + Narudo and by transitive give the match to Bach


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## Hamaru (Jul 31, 2016)

Also, as Liquid pointed out, the ability to even maintain/contain all of the souls between the worlds would require at LEAST planet level energies.


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Jul 31, 2016)

So how much energy does one soul contain then?

You can't just claim it takes at least planet level energy to maintain souls, when no figure is given nor even to how the SK balances the souls either as a function or raw power.

Think about how the SK acts as the Balance of Souls the same way a pipe can let the same amount of water out as water is coming in, making the amount of water constant, take the pipe away and the all the water spills out, block the pipe and the water overfills.

The below gives stronger credit to the pipe function of the SK, not the total quantity amount each dimension equals/contains via total soul bulk.

By that reasoning Mimihagi is planet level too, since it held the worlds together too.

Do you want Planet level Mimihagi?

Because that's how you get Planet level Mimihagi.

To highlight what I'm saying even more, the fact that the Shinigami soul burial only dead souls, not living ones, to and from SS means that the SK balances the death rates both dimensions have, not the living ones which greatly out number people who are dead.

Basically the SK is like the taxi company manager/boss who gets his people to pick you up and the Shinigami are the taxis.

Mayuri needed to *kill* X amount of Souls first, before it would correct the balance of souls at the start of the quincy attack in before the first invasion, to match the death rate the Quincys did in the Real World to hollows or something.

If the death rate increases dramatically in one dimension, the other must have the same amount to balance out and stop the worlds from merging due to an imbalance pushing one towards the other.

They need to break even in number of death rates in order to maintain the balance for peak level.

The SK doesn't need all the souls to maintain the balance, just the death rates from the few who have died.

Which shows how the Right Arm of the SK, was able to maintain the Balance, even when it would be less powerful than the SK itself.


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## Catalyst75 (Jul 31, 2016)

Given that we have seen Yhwach can use "The Almighty" to bring about futures where a attack that originally missed ends up hitting the target, even ignoring a barrier ability, there is likely no means to actually "block" or dodge an attack from Yhwach. 

As for how powerful Soul King Yhwach actually can be, while I have some doubts whether or not the Soul King may actually be able to affect those particular souls, don't forget that living things aren't the only entities with "souls" in Bleach - "souls" exist in all "matter" as well.  Which could actually explain how the Soul King dying caused Soul Society and Hueco Mundo to immediately begin crumbling (whereas the Living World only experience minor earthquakes that only the spiritually aware are able to perceive) - the Soul King could also control the "souls" in the "matter" making up the three worlds, hence how it could keep apart, and could bring together into one, the three worlds.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> yeah she has a Sharingan in the front.



No es un Sharingan, es un Rinnesharingan que es la combinación.



Divell said:


> Actually, since the begining in Bleach they are moving through dimension, real world, hueco mundo, seireitei, they can do that everywhere.



Y no pueden salir libremente de la caja negación que tenían los Espada, Obito también pueden moverse libremente y no podía en las de Kaguya.



Divell said:


> Donde se dice que Izanagi fue usado a menudo?



La imagen que puse antes, donde se menciona como Hagoromo estableció las bases del yin y del yang y de sus creaciones.

No es necesario escribir en inglés entre nosotros xd


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

TigerCatFish said:


> Not to get into the whole argument but how is Town>City>Mountain-Island>Country>Contient>Moon>Planet a bad progression? ...


Sakura went from city block at best to city easily, Kakashi the same, Naruto wasn't city yet when he obtain the half Kurama Cloak and was barely city at best with sage mode, he went from that to country in a matter of second. Obtain the Six Path and went from Country to Continent + easily moon lv, and since obtaining his other half he is easily moon+ to planet. I don't see a progression. Ichigo did the same, Large Building, to city block, to town, to small city, to island minimum (Dangai), to blowing up dimension by simply going Bankai, to vaporizing oceans by simply cooling his reiatsu, to being able to destroy a country + (easily planet+) being. Did I miss something?


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> No es un Sharingan, es un Rinnesharingan que es la combinación.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


La caja negacion es especificamente para atrapar a los Espadas.

OK, pero Hagoromo es superior a ellos, y nunca se dice que Kaguya lo supiera.


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> La caja negacion es especificamente para atrapar a los Espadas.



Lo cual indica que no pueden salir de todo con simpleza, de las dimensiones se vio que Obito no podía y que sólo Kaguya podía moverse libremente, tuvieron que entrar en su portal para poder viajar si no, no podían.



Divell said:


> OK, pero Hagoromo es superior a ellos, y nunca se dice que Kaguya lo supiera.



Es el jutsu que usa Kaguya o Madara para crear a Zetsu.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> Lo cual indica que no pueden salir de todo con simpleza, de las dimensiones se vio que Obito no podía y que sólo Kaguya podía moverse libremente, tuvieron que entrar en su portal para poder viajar si no, no podían.
> 
> 
> 
> Es el jutsu que usa Kaguya o Madara para crear a Zetsu.


La caja negación fue creada específicamente para Aizen para atrapar a los arrancars, por supuesto que no van a poder salir.

No, esa es la manipulación de Dark Ninjutsu or something like that. Y de hecho fue Kaguya.


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## rmdominguez22 (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> La caja negación fue creada específicamente para Aizen para atrapar a los arrancars, por supuesto que no van a poder salir.



Las dimensiones de Kaguya igual, creadas por ella para que sólo ella pudiese.



Divell said:


> No, esa es la manipulación de Dark Ninjutsu or something like that. Y de hecho fue Kaguya.



No, es izanagi, el completo, Madara lo menciona cuando se lo explica a Obito.

in'youton no jutsu.



¿Les molesta aquí el hablar en otro idioma o no? lo digo por escribir en inglés o no.


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## The World (Jul 31, 2016)

we need trump to send these illegals back

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 3 | Dislike 1


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

rmdominguez22 said:


> Las dimensiones de Kaguya igual, creadas por ella para que sólo ella pudiese.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Creadas por ella para cualquier tipo de uso, lo de Aizen fue creado para atrapar a los arrancars, no es lo mismo.

Madara sabia los Kinjutsu, no significa que Kaguya los sepa.
Hay trolles pero simplemente ignoralos.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 31, 2016)

por favor no hable español

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> The fact without the SK, the worlds would remerge as one, goes back to the old "SK is a pipe that simply maintains the flow to the point it doesn't happen".
> 
> It's hard to give him planet level when that is more attached to the combined mass of all the souls that reside in the SS and Real World and the SK power maintains that stability someway.
> 
> ...


Soul King keeps the balance, without him, everything would be destroyed, what Yhwach was doing was something completely different.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

Nighty said:


> por favor no hable español


I can speak 3 languages (2.5 but whatever), je vais parler une langue que je veux.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jul 31, 2016)

please stick with english as much as you are able 

debates are hard enough in one language, making them multi-lingual will make it difficult for a lot of posters to respond to your points.


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

You are a pain in the ass.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 6


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## Santí (Jul 31, 2016)

Divell said:


> You are a pain in the ass.



Su maldita madre.


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## Warlordgab (Jul 31, 2016)

Santi said:


> Su maldita madre.



Translation: "Your damn mother"

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## bitethedust (Jul 31, 2016)

No tenía idea de que habían tantos hispanohablantes en la OBD.

Reactions: Like 1


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## sworder (Jul 31, 2016)

esta prohibido ser irrespetuoso hacia nighty

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Divell (Jul 31, 2016)

Santi said:


> Su maldita madre.


Bien y la tuya?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Jackk (Jul 31, 2016)

Endy does have a point anyway

This is primarily an English forum

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Warlordgab (Jul 31, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> No tenía idea de que habían tantos hispanohablantes en la OBD.



Translation: "I had no idea there were so many spanish-speaking people in the OBD"

Yo tampoco, pero saber eso hace que me guste mucho más estar aquí ("me neither, but knowing this makes like being here a lot more")



sworder said:


> esta prohibido ser irrespetuoso hacia nighty



Translation: "It is forbidden to disrespect nighty"

¿Y quien le está faltando el respeto? ("And who's disrepecting him?")

Reactions: Informative 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

Jackk said:


> *her



My bad... then who's disrespecting her?


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## Revan Reborn (Aug 1, 2016)

Warlordgab said:


> My bad... then who's disrespecting her?



He is referring to the fact Nighty said you shouldn't be speaking Spanish in a English based fourm. When discussing fights, because of obvious reasons. "no hablo espanol"


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## bitethedust (Aug 1, 2016)

The Spanish bout was definitely off-topic since a lot of folks here don't know Spanish, but calling it disrespectful is a bit of a stretch since I doubt anyone was actually trying to well, be disrespectful.

Reactions: Like 1


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## shade0180 (Aug 1, 2016)

bitethedust said:


> but calling it disrespectful is a bit of a stretch


I kind of disagree with what you just said. The moment you ignored someone with authority telling you to stop doing whatever the hell you are doing, and still continued to do so doing it, would already automatically meant you are disrespecting that authority intentionally or not.

 and considering we are in a forum which had the ability to let you review and edit your post and preview it before posting. basically meant you had blatantly chose to ignore the given warning which pretty much told us what you thought about that warning that authoritative figure gave.


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## mark3339 (Aug 1, 2016)

khe chingue ma!!...cuanta bateria onda vital bro...!! 

En fin. Jesus nazi , absorbe a la coneja furry alienigena.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

we will build a wall

and Kubo will pay for it

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Gin (Aug 1, 2016)

tfw you dupe because you're too scared to spanishpost on ur main and risk incurring nighty's wrath 

yhwach wins btw

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## mark3339 (Aug 1, 2016)

Gina said:


> yhwach wins btw



wins in any language




Por cierto. Pónganse a revisar la ortografía de los hispanos. Para ver donde aprendieron ingles. u.u


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## LoveLessNHK (Aug 1, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Or are you saying that Almighty Juha, without the SK added to him, can forcefully merge them as one?
> 
> Why would he absorb the SK first, if he could just merge them without it.



What if...Ywach has the power without Almighty to forcefully merge them together, but only when there isn't a SK/SK stand-in whose power is keeping them apart. In this instance, he would have absorbed the power so that no others could have it and use it to counter balance his own power. Like, if somebody has the power to create water from the air, and another has the power to turn water into a gas, they would both counterbalance each other (given that the magnitudes of their abilities are equal), but if one could "steal" the power of the other, than they could use their own power to as much as they see fit since their perfect opposition is now gone.

I mean, this is all fan fiction, but, like, what if?


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## Worldbreaker (Aug 1, 2016)

Yo solo vine para escribir en español


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## Revan Reborn (Aug 1, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Yo solo vine para escribir en español



And you can leave now.


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## God (Aug 1, 2016)

La bla blah de blah blah para


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## Akatora (Aug 1, 2016)

Reading some of the replies in this thread made me wonder.

What effect would "aura of the sun"  have on a character if a meteor or moon was thrown at them?
Would it evaporate a hole through the projectile even if it's moving at 30-40.000 km/h?
Aura temperature= 15 million C

ofcause i'm turning a blind eye to suffercation and other enviormental damges the user of the aura would be hit with afterwards.


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

mark3339 said:


> khe chingue ma!!...cuanta bateria onda vital bro...!!
> 
> En fin. Jesus nazi , absorbe a la coneja furry alienigena.



Translation:

"Fuck, that's bad! How much turtle wave* we have here bro...!!

At the end, Nazi Jesus absorbs the alien furry bunny girl"

* "Onda vital" is a meme taken from Dragon Ball's spanish dub, when the Kamehameha technique was horribly dubbed as "life wave" or "living wave". It's seems to be used to mock someone/something for their inferiority or lack of quality



Worldbreaker said:


> Yo solo vine para escribir en español



Translation: "I only came here to write something in spanish"



mark3339 said:


> Por cierto. Pónganse a revisar la ortografía de los hispanos. Para ver donde aprendieron ingles. u.u



Translation: "By the way. Check the hispanic guys' grammar/orthography to see where they leaned english. u.u"

Mi inglés es autodidacta ("My english is self-taught")

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Vicotex (Aug 1, 2016)

these spanish fuckers really getting on my nerves.
Btw, hw is bach gonna kill kaguya when she has tanked shit that are>>> bach's paygrade


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## Akatora (Aug 1, 2016)

Vicotex said:


> these spanish fuckers really getting on my nerves.
> Btw, hw is bach gonna kill kaguya when she has tanked shit that are>>> bach's paygrade



Precission damage?

Was it Zanka no tachi North where the tip obliterate the target?
Imagine the energy required to destroy a small country focused at the tip of a blade.


THen again I'm mearly giving suggestions


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## shade0180 (Aug 1, 2016)

Thing is Kaguya herself has her own regen.

 her DC is higher than wack. she has an illusory technique superior to KS.



ayyfisk said:


> hax



and what Hax is that, care to explain?


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

Vicotex said:


> these spanish fuckers really getting on my nerves.
> Btw, hw is bach gonna kill kaguya when she has tanked shit that are>>> bach's paygrade



I'm not spanish, I'm venezuelan. And *mark3339* seems to be mexican

As for the match, I'm not sure if You're Wack can hax his way out this...


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## Toaa (Aug 1, 2016)

wil we all speak common languages?because if i use my native i will be speaking to myself


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

Vicotex said:


> these spanish fuckers really getting on my nerves.
> Btw, *hw is bach gonna kill kaguya when she has tanked shit that are>>> bach's paygrade*



Only true if you still don't realize that he  has planet level DC. 

He also has the ability to drain her power. 

Also, a punch to her head seems to work pretty good


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## Deer Lord (Aug 1, 2016)

I see the OBD finally turned into a telenovella


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Only true if you still don't realize that he has planet level DC.



with his strongest shit, not his punches, kicks or whatever

and even then - _potentially
_
not to mention it's AoE is fucking huge, so huge that even if it is indeed planet level, the amount of energy an opponent will be actually hit by won't be city block even

if there was proof that he could concentrate all that energy into something much more compact then it would have been more useful

but even then, it still won't work because his opponent is someone who spams interplanetary teleportation like crazy, including when dodging shit



Hamaru said:


> He also has the ability to drain her power.



> drain her power
> despite the fact that he never drained all of the power from someone as powerful as her
> despite the fact that she has blatantly superior feats when it comes to draining energy

ok 



Hamaru said:


> Also, a punch to her head seems to work pretty good



not as good as taking an arrow to the knee worked out for Yhwach

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Divell (Aug 1, 2016)

Just so we are clear, Yhwach was going to combine he 3 world, not simply destroy Soul Society.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Emperor Moustache (Aug 1, 2016)

Is there a post where these Planet level shenanigans is being discussed?


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Emperor Moustache said:


> Is there a post where these Planet level shenanigans is being discussed?



there you

Reactions: Useful 2


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## Divell (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> with his strongest shit, not his punches, kicks or whatever
> 
> and even then - _potentially
> _
> ...


A few things wrong, Yhwach has had better absorbing energy feats, Soul King by itself is the biggest considering the dude alone was the epicenter of everything and without him the worlds would be fuck up big time, and not combined like Yhwach was doing. Second Sakura's Punch is not the same as Uryu is arrow, one is made to specifically injure Yhwach, and the other is made to just punch about anything around.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Ayy lmao (Aug 1, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> and what Hax is that, care to explain?


Pernida's nerve abilty, Askin lethal and Lille Barro's X axis. All three ignore durability


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Divell, just f.y.i.

I have you on SI

so if you are responding to me, and I'm assuming you are, you are wasting your time


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## shade0180 (Aug 1, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> Pernida's nerve abilty, Askin lethal and Lille Barro's X axis. All three ignore durability



3 abilities he never used himself,bravo.

also I'm not questioning if the ability can ignore Kaguya's durability or even harm her. I'm questioning if they can kill her, that's the whole point here...

that's why I pointed out that Kaguya has her own regen on an earlier post. a regen that can ignore a space time damage. as shown with Kakashi hitting both her arm with his Kamui shuriken.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

What's going on in this tread 

Anyway, Ywach wins with or without the planet level thing unless someone thinks he can't beat his own SRE.


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

what does his ability to beat his own sternritters has to do with this match up?


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## Orochibuto (Aug 1, 2016)

Kaguya has the firepower, but her mindset would screw her.

Kaguya cant fight as effectively without Black Zetsu commanding her who is not in this fight. In fact shortly after losing him she was defeated.

She didnt had the experience or wits to fight seasoned warriors, she just flailed around her firepower to eliminate her foes.

She is selfish on chakra use, even on herself, and actively kept from using some jutsus just to avoid using up chakra.

Most importantly, it was outright stated that her fighting capabilities were reduced further by her having an insane fear of being resealed.

All this accomplished her defeat at the hands of people weaker than what originally it took to defeat her the first time.

Couldnt Yhwach just pick a future where she is a terrorized mess at the prospect of being defeated again, running out of chakra and make the most stupid choices?

Honestly given how she was portrayed I could see her reduced to a sobbing woman in fetal position by Yhwach proggressively picking futures where her fears are scalated more and more with every attack he does.

Or just pick a future where she lose control of the Juubi (which happened in canon) and cant regain it.

She is pretty much a child in the body of an adult.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BreakFlame (Aug 1, 2016)

Divell said:


> A few things wrong, Yhwach has had better absorbing energy feats, Soul King by itself is the biggest considering the dude alone was the epicenter of everything and without him the worlds would be fuck up big time, and not combined like Yhwach was doing. Second Sakura's Punch is not the same as Uryu is arrow, one is made to specifically injure Yhwach, and the other is made to just punch about anything around.



Kaguya absorbed chakra from every person on the planet, was going to drain Naruto and Sasuke through touch, and ate Susanoo before it could touch her. She's superior here.

Second, his only planet level thing at all is him covering the planet in his ink spill. While it may have eventually killed the entire world, it's only planet level by virtue of size. He isn't capable of just shattering it via explosion or something he could use on another person. Anyone who can tank his normal ink spill can tank his bigger one. If anything, the only thing that would make it planetary is his range.


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## Divell (Aug 1, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> Pernida's nerve abilty, Askin lethal and Lille Barro's X axis. All three ignore durability


Yhwach can't utilize them, he doesn't take the letters, he take the live energy of the Quincy.


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> with his strongest shit, not his punches, kicks or whatever
> 
> and even then - _potentially
> _
> ...



I wasn't really going to waste much more time on this thread....but dammit, for some reason I keep coming back 

The punch comment was a clear joke because of Sakura. I wasn't being serious on that point. 

The idea that his planet-level attack would have too much AOE to hurt her is just foolish. He was about to use his ability on 2 different worlds at once, so it being a bit flashy doesn't mean he can't actually focus his energy into a smaller area. He seems to have perfect control over his goo from what we've seen. 

He absorbed 2 beings that kept the 3 worlds from falling apart, when there was a clear unbalance of souls. He is good in the power department. The only person that really took time to drain was the Soul King himself. He made draining Mimi & Ichigo seem like eating a starburst.


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Kaguya has the firepower, but her mindset would screw her.
> 
> Kaguya cant fight as effectively without Black Zetsu commanding her who is not in this fight. In fact shortly after losing him she was defeated.
> 
> ...



But what would happen if CIS is off? Wouldn't that eliminate the futures where Ywhach can take advantage of CIS?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> what does his ability to beat his own sternritters has to do with this match up?



He needs a way to beat Lille intangibility,Nianzol space distortion or Askin inmunity,so space dimentional damage is something he should possess,and he does have feats of using reality warping or matter manipulation.

Kaguya was harmed with that type of attack by Kakashi,but she isn't gonna be able to regenerate do to Allmighty.


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## shade0180 (Aug 1, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> -snip-.



Just going to point out that not how his ability worked even in the manga.

It never picked a future where the characters are relatively so far from their present self or condition. and the character represented here are at their strongest.





lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> ,but she isn't gonna be able to regenerate do to Allmighty.



Pretty sure Almighty power doesn't stop regeneration specially when it is instant among other things.



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Lille intangibility,Nianzol space distortion or Askin inmunity



IT.


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## Divell (Aug 1, 2016)

BreakFlame said:


> Kaguya absorbed chakra from every person on the planet, was going to drain Naruto and Sasuke through touch, and ate Susanoo before it could touch her. She's superior here.
> 
> Second, his only planet level thing at all is him covering the planet in his ink spill. While it may have eventually killed the entire world, it's only planet level by virtue of size. He isn't capable of just shattering it via explosion or something he could use on another person. Anyone who can tank his normal ink spill can tank his bigger one. If anything, the only thing that would make it planetary is his range.


Soul King = Dude that maintains the balance with just his presence, absorbing humans, couldn't drain Naruto nor Sasuke even though multiple minutes had passed, while Yhwach absorbed multiple QUincy, Sternritter , etc and Ichigo like if it were nothing. 

Yhwach was going to combine the 3 Worlds, the human world, Hueco Mundo, and Soul Society into one, 

is straight up stated by him, before being stopped by an arrow specifically to paralyze him, deal with it.


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

Also, people seem to be forgetting that Bach has the HUGE advantage of selecting the future that will constantly give him the advantage.


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> The idea that his planet-level attack would have too much AOE to hurt her is just foolish. He was about to use his ability on 2 different worlds at once, so it being a bit flashy doesn't mean he can't actually focus his energy into a smaller area. He seems to have perfect control over his goo from what we've seen.



what?

of course it does

you can't just assume that a character can compress the energy of a huge AoE attack into a compact mini nuke without evidence

if we go by your logic then even city level characters can harm characters that tanked planet level nukes by compressing their energy ballz into the size of nanometers or some shit



Hamaru said:


> He absorbed 2 beings that kept the 3 worlds from falling apart, when there was a clear unbalance of souls. He is good in the power department. The only person that really took time to drain was the Soul King himself. He made draining Mimi & Ichigo seem like eating a starburst.



are you trying to say that Mimihigi and SK are also planet level?


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He needs a way to beat Lille intangibilityNianzol space distortion or Askin inmunity



yeah

the way is called Auswahlen



> so space dimentional damage is something he should possess



again with the_ should possess
_
I don't care about what you believe he should have, I only care about what you can prove he has



> he does have show to be able to use reality warping or matter manipulation.



by reality warping I guess you mean Almighty

matter manipulation?



> Kaguya was harmed with that type of attack by Kakashi,but she isn't gonna be able to regenerate do to Allmighty.



yeah, because the Almighty has stopped a character from regenerating before

wait...


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> Pretty sure Almighty power doesn't stop regeneration specially when it is instant among other things.



Orihime couldn't fix Zangetsu because it was broken in all possible futures

11
Rukia: The power...to rewrite the future...? // How can anyone... / ...hope to stand against such an ability......?
Orihime: ......I...... // I’m sorry...... Kurosaki-kun...... // I couldn’t fix...... // ...your Tensa Zangetsu............
Rukia: So once something has been broken in all possible futures...... // ...even the power of rejection cannot erase that outcome............
Orihime: I’m so sorry...... // Now you won’t...... // ...even be able to fight............



shade0180 said:


> IT.



Tsukuyomi?


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> what?
> 
> of course it does
> 
> ...


No, it really doesn't. You have absolutely no idea how potent his attacks are. For all we know, he could have been using all of that power in his attacks against Aizen and Ichigo, and simply spread out its power for the final attack. It can go both ways. 

The SK is without a doubt. There was an unbalance of souls that would have destroyed the 3 worlds. The only thing keeping them together, despite that unbalance was the SK. That is why the moment he died, things went to shit. Mimi was able to substitute that power, so that speaks for itself.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> yeah
> 
> the way is called Auswahlen



I doubt he couldn't kill Lille without taking his powers,furthermore the chicken would still be intangible.



DarkTorrent said:


> again with the_ should possess
> _
> I don't care about what you believe he should have, I only care about what you can prove he has



Ok,but:
_Those abilities are born from his soul.
_We are literally told and show he gets everything from the people he lends his souls.
_We saw him giving himself powers just because during the Ichibei fight( doubling his powers and giving himself the ability to talk again)



DarkTorrent said:


> by reality warping I guess you mean Almighty
> 
> matter manipulation?



Creating the new palace can be either warping or matter manipulation,then the granting himself power and creating a dimension in Seireitei shadows,though this is off panel.


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## Sablés (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> yeah, because the Almighty has stopped a character from regenerating before
> 
> wait...



It has rofl. Both Aizen and Ichigo's sword


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Orihime couldn't fix Zangetsu because it was broken in all possible futures



Only one problem, Orihime's power isn't regen. It's actually the power to reject events that happened. In fact, Rukia gives us not only the reasons why she couldn't fix Ichigo's sword but also reminds us how Orihime's "healing" ability works: "So once something has been broken in all possible futures, even the power of rejection _cannot erase that outcome_"

I highly doubt You're Wack powers can nullify regen


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## Pocalypse (Aug 1, 2016)

Doesn't OBD go by feats? I mean I do believe Yhwach can use his SR's abilities but he hasn't shown using any so I don't think he should get special treatment in that regard.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sablés (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> are you trying to say that Mimihigi and SK are also planet level?


Well no shit, where do you think all that power came from?


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> No, it really doesn't. You have absolutely no idea how potent his attacks are. For all we know, he could have been using all of that power in his attacks against Aizen and Ichigo, and simply spread out its power for the final attack. It can go both ways.



I do actually have an idea

his attacks are as potent as he has shown to be

you can't assume that a character can make his energy attacks any size he wants while retaining their destructive capacity, unless there is strong evidence

that is blatant wanking



Hamaru said:


> The SK is without a doubt. There was an unbalance of souls that would have destroyed the 3 worlds. The only thing keeping them together, despite that unbalance was the SK. That is why the moment he died, things went to shit. Mimi was able to substitute that power, so that speaks for itself.



keeping the souls in balance doesn't automatically translate into planet level DC or durability

or any level for that matter when DC is concerned

because keeping souls in balance first and foremost implies some level of soul manipulation

the degree of soul manipulation depends on how exactly it/he is keeping them in balance



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> I doubt he couldn't kill Lille without taking his powers



and I've already said I don't care about your doubts and believes

all I need is proof



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> furthermore the chicken would still be intangible.



he would be dead

as evidenced by Haschwalt dying after Auswahlen



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Ok,but:
> _Those abilities are born from his soul.



more like stimulated but whatever



> _We are literally told and show he gets everything from the people he lends his souls.



told? kinda

shown? no, he failed to display even a single of them after getting them back



> _We saw him giving himself powers just because during the Ichibei fight( doubling his powers and giving himself the ability to talk again)



he didn't give himself some new power

what he did was returned himself to the state when he had his powers via Almighty



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Creating the new palace can be either warping or matter manipulation,then the granting himself power and creating a dimension in Seireitei shadows,though this is off panel.



except it's a TK feat

this is where his country level DC and durability come from 



Sablés said:


> It has rofl. Both Aizen and Ichigo's sword



not exactly characters that have regeneration on Kaguya's level are they?


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## Vicotex (Aug 1, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> hax


Kaguya has more hax than bach.
More dc than bach
Faster than bach
She also have illusion


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## Warlordgab (Aug 1, 2016)

How fast is Kaguya again?


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> I do actually have an idea
> 
> his attacks are as potent as he has shown to be
> 
> ...



Lol, c'mon now DT, stop this foolishness. "His attacks are as potent as he has shown to be", and how potent is that??? What are you judging its potency on exactly? 

You completely missed the point. The shinigami and SS help with the soul balancing task, as Rukia explained earlier in the manga. If that balance was disrupted, everything would go to hell. If the balance is how its supposed to be, then everything would be good. That is basic information at this point. Even if the Soul King was dead, things should still be ok, UNLESS there  is an unbalance of souls at that time. Which would mean that the SK has to hold all 3 worlds together while the re-balancing is taking place. Same thing with Mimi. He had to hold everything together while things get balanced out. That doesn't change the fact that they need to hold the worlds together.


----------



## Sablés (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> not exactly characters that have regeneration on Kaguya's level are they?





DarkTorrent said:


> yeah, because the Almighty has stopped a character from regenerating before
> 
> wait...



I shouldn't have to point out where you goofed


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

Vicotex said:


> Kaguya has more hax than bach.
> More dc than bach
> Faster than bach
> She also have illusion


LOL, choosing the future shits on everything Kaguya has.


----------



## Sablés (Aug 1, 2016)

I'd also argue the quality of "regen" matters more than the character's power but whatever


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Well no shit, where do you think all that power came from?



shut up Stools

I can't deal with their wank and you making sense at the same time 

but seriously, I know about your "what Yhwach actually did" explanation that everyone keeps ignoring, which strongly indicates planet level SK and Mimihagi as well

but lets leave this discussion for some place that's more quiet, where we won't have to deal with being bombarded with shit from both sides

you know what? make a blog or something and see how it goes

I might even make an input 



Sablés said:


> I'd also argue the quality of "regen" matters more than the character's power but whatever



regen on Kaguya's level implies "quality of regen" not character's power

don't know how you misinterpreted that


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

Warlordgab said:


> Only one problem, Orihime's power isn't regen. It's actually the power to reject events that happened. In fact, Rukia gives us not only the reasons why she couldn't fix Ichigo's sword but also reminds us how Orihime's "healing" ability works: "So once something has been broken in all possible futures, even the power of rejection _cannot erase that outcome_"
> 
> I highly doubt You're Wack powers can nullify regen



It did with Aizen's.



DarkTorrent said:


> he would be dead
> 
> as evidenced by Haschwalt dying after Auswahlen



Liltotto,Baz-B and Gigi died like,an hour later fighting other people.

Haschwald himself isn't confirmed dead yet.



DarkTorrent said:


> told? yes
> 
> shown? no, he failed to display even of them after getting them back



He took his five senses from other people.



DarkTorrent said:


> he didn't give himself some new power
> 
> what he did was returned himself to the state when he had his powers via Almighty



No,i mean when hi got his powers reduced to half and summoned more power from nowhere.



DarkTorrent said:


> except it's a TK feat
> 
> this is where his country level DC and durability come from



Giving form to the ruble he brought and lifting a castle from a bunch of houses.
And the shadows thing.



DarkTorrent said:


> and I've already said I don't care about your doubts and believes
> 
> all I need is proof



He is stated by Haschwald to be superior to all Sterns,and only Ishida's ability could have had any chance to oppose against him.


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DT, your last 5 post make you seem very confused.


----------



## Sablés (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> shut up Stools
> 
> I can't deal with their wank and you making sense at the same time
> 
> ...


You've read far too much into my posts. I'm just screwing with you via picking off irrelevant points. 

Your overall argument is sound


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Lol, c'mon now DT, stop this foolishness. "His attacks are as potent as he has shown to be", and how potent is that??? What are you judging its potency on exactly?



feats?

whether the attack pulverized, melted, vaporized etc matter is how we gauge energy potency of an attack

regarding "potency" of attacks in general:

if he was able to harm a character with planet level durability with a nuke, then that doesn't mean he can do the same with a punch

if he actually did that with a punch as well, then that means he can concentrate that kind of energy into his punches

but that doesn't mean he can concentrate the same amount of energy into a nuke of a size of a needle

that is blatant NLF

assuming that characters can make their energy attacks as "potent" or as concentrated as they want literally leads to building level characters being able to harm characters with star level durability thanks to surface area shenanigans



Hamaru said:


> You completely missed the point. The shinigami and SS help with the soul balancing task, as Rukia explained earlier in the manga. If that balance was disrupted, everything would go to hell. If the balance is how its supposed to be, then everything would be good. That is basic information at this point. Even if the Soul King was dead, things should still be ok, UNLESS there is an unbalance of souls at that time. Which would mean that the SK has to hold all 3 worlds together while the re-balancing is taking place. Same thing with Mimi. He had to hold everything together while things get balanced out. That doesn't change the fact that they need to hold the worlds together.



no, it's you who are not understanding

he doesn't necessarily need to deal *with the effect* of the unbalance with his power - as in the worlds starting to crumble and him needing to hold them together with TK or whatever you believe he does

there is a possbility that all he does is deal *with the cause* - whatever unbalancing does to natural flow of souls or whatever to result in worlds starting to crumble

basically use soul manipulation or some another shit to force the things to still go as planned while rebalancing is happening, never causing for the worlds to crumble in the first place

unless you have strong evidence that is the former and not latter we can't automatically assume they are planet level in DC


----------



## Vicotex (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> LOL, choosing the future shits on everything Kaguya has.


Why didn't the almighty save his ass b4 ks fucked him over?


----------



## Catalyst75 (Aug 1, 2016)

Vicotex said:


> Why didn't the almighty save his ass b4 ks fucked him over?



Because his ability is to his sense of sight (as well as his other senses).  Basically, so long as Kyoka Suigetsu is active, that skewers Yhwach's perception of the future.


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> -snip-


I'm going to address the main issue if you don't mind. Mainly because running in circles don't matter if we don't get the main thing down. 

The problem with the idea that the SK just had to deal with the cause, and not the effect is that the cause is largely dealt with by SS. It is their job to keep the balance between SS and earth, we know that for a fact. The most the SK's role is in that balancing act could be is to create the souls needed to balance things out over an unknown amount of time. While things aren't balance, something, or someone has to deal with the effects while everything gets re-balanced. 



Vicotex said:


> Why didn't the almighty save his ass b4 ks fucked him over?



Because he was under KS BEFORE he ever used the Almighty, and KS last for thousands of years.


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> no, it's you who are not understanding
> 
> he doesn't necessarily need to deal *with the effect* of the unbalance with his power - as in the worlds starting to crumble and him needing to hold them together with TK or whatever you believe he does
> 
> ...


Can I expand on this, just got an idea?

So, lets say the 2 worlds are on a scale, one is SS the other is the Real World.

Both sides have many blocks of different sizes on them called "Reishi souls" and these act as the weight for the scale.

In order to balance the scale both sides must have the same weight on them to prevent the scale from breaking.

The SK acts as the balancer moves blocks to the other, in order to balance them.

The Shinigami are the ones who pick which blocks they want for the SK to move(They kill them with Zanpakuto or Soul Burial).

They both work together to create the Balance and stop the scale from destroying itself.

So the SK doesn't physically put his hand onto or under one scale and prop that or the other side up to stop the scale from breaking, he moves more blocks from one side until it balances out enough that the scale can't break.


----------



## Keishin (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> what?
> 
> of course it does
> 
> ...


Here's the feat of him condensing that power into his index finger and shooting it out. And that seems like something really, really fast also. A good feat for Yhwach.


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

^ what?

he isn't condensing "that power" which in case you didn't know is supposed to be planet level, he didn't have that kind of firepower back then in the first place

he is firing a nuke with unknown DC from his finger, that upon impact expands into a big AoE

this is like using Nardo creating a mini FRS with his pinky as proof that he can condense the energy of his moon level COBRS into a nuke that small as well

which he obviously can't do

no, even worse, because the difference in size between Nardo's COBRS and miniFRS is still relatively small in comparison to Yhwach's finger nuke and planetary shenanigans


----------



## Keishin (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> ^ what?
> 
> he isn't condensing "that power" which in case you didn't know is supposed to be planet level, he didn't have that kind of firepower back then in the first place
> 
> ...


I showed you proof of him using the soul king's right arm's power. I showed you him condensing that very power from the arm to his index finger and shooting it down. At a speed I haven't seen Kaguya deal with. Yhwach takes him as he can have a future where he had already shot Kaguya with that condensed power. I have no idea what you're even trying to debunk here. It's all in the panels.

If he can condense the SK power to his index finger this proves what you were asking before. Nothing is left to imagination about him being able to do that. It doesn't matter what form it is.


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Keishin said:


> I showed you proof of him using the soul king's right arm's power. I showed you him condensing that very power from the arm to his index finger and shooting it down.
> 
> If he can condense the SK power to his index finger this proves what you were asking before. Nothing is left to imagination about him being able to do that. It doesn't matter what form it is.



no it doesn't

what you showed is him using the right's arm power to create a nuke of what seems to be city level power

which was never in question, he can create nukes of various sizes and correspondingly in power and he can use SK's power

what was in question whether he can focus the energy of his "planet buster" with that huge AoE to create a significantly smaller nuke and smaller AoE

and those panels of him firing a random nuke don't prove that

just like Nardo using Kyuubi's power and making a small rasengan with it doesn't prove that he can condense the power of his country level Bijudamas into a nuke of Rasengan's size, while also using the Kyuubi's power



> At a speed I haven't seen Kaguya deal with.



do tell me how you've managed to gauge his speed on those panels

and understand that it's much faster than what Kaguya can deal with



> Yhwach takes him as he can have a future where he had already shot Kaguya with that condensed power.



yeah

like he took out Ichigo by making the future where he already defeated him into reality

or how he didn't even take down SK and absorb his power but merely made the future where he actually did that into reality

or any other character that he fought with Almighty active

oh wait... no, he still had to actually engage, fight and defeat them, not once did he go "lolnope I already defeated you in the future so I'll make that into reality and go drink some tea"

I wonder why



> I have no idea what you're even trying to debunk here. It's all in the panels.



now apparently your wank


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> how is that a problem?
> 
> does the fact that the patient is on life support remove the neccessity of doctors still dealing with the actual cause?





It is a problem because it is painfully obvious that the souls between the worlds are not balanced. The SK has not balanced them. SS has not balanced them. Due to the unbalance, EVERYTHING in the 3 worlds would be falling apart if they were not being held together. Could the SK be dealing with the cause? Yes; however, that doesn't change the fact that the effect has to be dealt with in the mean time.


----------



## Lucino (Aug 1, 2016)

In regards to a legitimate panel of him compressing his darkness into a focused attack, he does that here to open up Aizen.



Though whether or not he can compress a planet level worth of energy into that idk.


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

Seriously DT, if a structure started to fall over due to a weak cornerstone or broken leg, of course you'll have to replace the cause. But you'd still have to hold the shit up while replacing the leg or cornerstone. You're not going to create a new leg or stone while the structure is falling over and hope you complete it fast enough to switch it in place.


----------



## Keishin (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> no it doesn't
> 
> what you showed is him using the right's arm power to create a nuke of what seems to be city level power
> 
> ...


Yes. He condensed the power and I can say it's faster with pure confidence.
1. The speed of the blast was in the chapter he absorbed Mimihagi-SK's arm with the same shadow powers he now has, except in full as--- he can condense it into his index finger and there is not a single thing you can do to try to debunk that. And he shoots down from the RG.The place that it takes 7 days to Shunpo down to Soul Society.

--Next chapter. Mimihagi gets absorbed into the RG, Urahara looks up, and the SK power CONDENSED beam Yhwach shot last chapter after absorbing Mimihagi comes down.
= FAR above anything Kaguya has shown to react to.

2. PIS. He showed that his attacks hit Ichigo when Orihime blocked...

Yhwach = Faster attack speed, more broken powers = Victory


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## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Seriously DT, if a structure started to fall over due to a weak cornerstone or broken leg, of course you'll have to replace the cause. But you'd still have to hold the shit up while replacing the leg or cornerstone. You're not going to create a new leg or stone while the structure is falling over and hope you complete it fast enough to switch it in place.


Except this is a balance scale not a building where the base needs to hold all the weight.

Depending on how much weight is lost, the scale will start to tip towards one side.

All the SK would need to do is put a new weight down on the lighter side or take off a weight from the opposing side, to rebalance.

That's why Mayuri needed to kill the Rukon citizens, to equal the deaths the Quincy's did before the war started.

Mayuri took off the SS weight because it was necessary to keep the Balance between the dimensions.

The SK only needs to physically match the energy of whatever is lost on whatever side of the scale, not the sum total of the entire weight of one side.

Mayuri would never have needed to kill the Rukon citizens if the SK could have matched the difference lost with his own power, them dying in such huge numbers had exceeded the SK's power to match it, so they needed to kill in the SS before the scales broke.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> It is a problem because it is painfully obvious that the souls between the worlds are not balanced. The SK has not balanced them. SS has not balanced them. Due to the unbalance, EVERYTHING in the 3 worlds would be falling apart if they were not being held together. Could the SK be dealing with the cause? Yes; however, that doesn't change the fact that the effect has to be dealt with in the mean time.



*sigh*

look, lets go with your structure example:

there are two structures - the soul one, existence of which is pretty obvious by the balance of souls being a thing in the first place, and the world one

the lack of balance causes the first structure, the soul one, to crumble, which in turn causes the second one, the worlds one, to crumble

so all SK needs to do is hold up the first structure while the repair team aka the Shinigami are repairing it for good, which in turn never causes the second structure to crumble in the first place, or at least in a significant way

hence my life support and doctors example

he doesn't neccesarily need to deal with holding the worlds directly

to prove that he actually does the latter and not the former requires evidence

evidence that I am yet to see



Keishin said:


> Yes. He condensed the power



ok look

I'll make it as simple to understand as I can, because clearly you are not getting it

there is a stack of papers

You take one paper and compress them into a paper ball

but can you, and not some machine, take the rest of the stack of papers and compress them into a paper ball of the same size as the previous one?

can you take 1 fucking ton of papers and compress them into a paper ball of the same size with your own power?

no you can't

likewise, Yhwach manipulates energy

he takes some amount of energy and "compresses" it into a ball or finger nukes, it doesn't matter where that energy comes from in this instance - him or SK, what matters is his ability to compress it

in the scan you've posted he used only some of the energy, "a stack of paper", in his potential planet level feat he uses pretty much all of his energy to our knowledge, "1 ton of paper"

and we can't assume that he can compress all of his energy into something of the same size as when he only compressed some of his energy

doing otherwise would be a no limits fallacy



Keishin said:


> 1. The speed of the blast was in the chapter he absorbed Mimihagi-SK's arm with the same shadow powers he now has, except in full as--- he can condense it into his index finger and there is not a single thing you can do to try to debunk that. And he shoots down from the RG.The place that it takes 7 days to Shunpo down to Soul Society.
> 
> --Next chapter. Mimihagi gets absorbed into the RG, Urahara looks up, and the SK power CONDENSED beam Yhwach shot last chapter after absorbing Mimihagi comes down.



you do realize that between panels, not even chapters, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months can pass in a manga?

so you need something substantial to actually help to determine the exact timeframe for you to make a speed estimation?

because as of now you are operating purely on personal belief

both of them are in four digits Mach, there is no relevant speed difference



Keishin said:


> 2. PIS. He showed that his attacks hit Ichigo when Orihime blocked...



so you are saying that Kubo is such a hack that he wrote more than what? 200 chapters for nothing?

that the moment Yhwach regained Almighty he could instantly "win" and do everything he set out to do without actually doing it? no... fuck that... that he gathered the Sternitters, invaded SS all for nothing? that all he needed to do was wait for the Almighty to reawaken and that's it?

that Yhwach is the most fucking retarded character in all fiction?

no mate, you can't toss out 200 chapters as PIS so you can masturbate to Almighty

Occam's Razor and NLF both dictate that if he hasn't shown capable of doing that time and time again then it's a limiation to his ability

and his ability does have limits, just like every other ability, just like everything has limits


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> His arm was clearly missing.



again

not enough time passed before he got swallowed for us to confirm whether it would regenerate or not



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That the SR are "destined"to die after Auschwalen,it isn't an autowin.



it pretty much is

since they start dying, unable to really do anything to him



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> We are told he got them from others.
> Quincys don't evolve,Volstanding is simply a more advanced Letz Still.



missing the point

Quincy have shown the ability to physically transform, "evolve", to gain new biological attributes many times

it doesn't matter that to most it happens because of Volstanding

because it also happens without Volstanding

I mean there is a fucking organ that got transformed into a human, and gained eyes, ears, mouth, nose and the ability to see, hear, smell, touch and speak



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> *Spoiler*:
> 
> He granted himself that power the same way he gave himself his voice again.
> *Spoiler*:



so it's either Almighty awakening or Almighty already awakened



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No,what he lifted was ruble,the buildings in the recreated palace where intact,the tower wasn't made from pieces that where there either.
> 
> 11
> Hiyosu: What in the hell is happening here?!!!
> ...



which can be done via TK

you can lift small pieces of stone and mold them into any building you want with your mind as a TK user, provided that you are proficient enough



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He does because otherwise he can't damage them,and he was stronger than everyone else before becoming the SK.
> Aside from Pernida,Gerard and Gremmy's creations all other abilities are born from his soul,they are not something the Sterns could have developed themselves no matter the time.
> 
> At least Pernida and Gerard's powers are his since those abilities are simply SK natural capabilities and their Schrift are mere titles,and he did show to use the other arm power.



he doesn't need the ability to damage them in a convential sense to be considered stronger than them

all he needs is an ability to defeat them that doesn't care about their hax

aka Auswahlen


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> *sigh*
> 
> look, lets go with your structure example:
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, you're saying that the SK just has to hold together one of the worlds, and as a result, none of the additional damage to the opposite world take place, correct?


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

TehDarkDarkOfPerdition said:


> Except this is a balance scale not a building where the base needs to hold all the weight.
> 
> Depending on how much weight is lost, the scale will start to tip towards one side.
> 
> ...



I already know this. I'm talking to DT about what is holding things together while the scales are being balanced, not the actual act of balancing them.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> again
> 
> not enough time passed before he got swallowed for us to confirm whether it would regenerate or not



He regens right after normally.



DarkTorrent said:


> it pretty much is
> 
> since they start dying, unable to really do anything to him



No,Baz-B make a pretty good fight after Auscwaken.
If a Stern could beat him,Auschwalen isn't winning the fight for him.



DarkTorrent said:


> missing the point
> 
> Quincy have shown the ability to physically transform, "evolve", to gain new biological attributes many times
> 
> ...



Quncys are human beings.
Gremmy was always a brain,the bodies where not "real".



DarkTorrent said:


> so it's either Almighty awakening or Almighty already awakened



No,the time for the 9 years hadn't finished yet.



DarkTorrent said:


> which can be done via TK
> 
> you can lift small pieces of stone and mold them into any building you want with your mind as a TK user, provided that you are proficient enough



That isn't what we are shown.



DarkTorrent said:


> he doesn't need the ability to damage them in a convential sense to be considered stronger than them
> 
> all he needs is an ability to defeat them that doesn't care about their hax
> 
> aka Auswahlen



Except Haschwald was talking about the Quincy's special abilities and Auschwalen doesn't straight up kill the Sterns.

Baz-B,Gigi and Liltotto survived it and managed to go to the soul palace to fight Haschwald and Ywach.


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> Just to be clear, you're saying that the SK just has to hold together one of the worlds, and as a result, none of the additional damage to the opposite world take place, correct?



no

there are two aspects in this: the souls and the worlds

so he either deals with the souls aspect or the worlds one

if he deals with the souls one then he compensates with his power for the unbalance of souls via something like soul manipulation, which never causes the worlds to start to crumble in the first place (not to a significant degree at least), not even one of them

the Shinigami meanwhile work to repair the "soul structure" for good by restoring the balance

if he deals with the worlds one, then he physically keeps them from cumbling with I dunno what, lets say TK

for us to confidently say which option it is exactly requires evidence

or lets go with another example, a computer one:

the 3 worlds are the processor, hard drive and video card

the soul "structure" is the motherboard, something all 3 need to operate properly

something happens to the motherboard, "it goes out of balance", which in turn causes the other 3 to start troubleshooting as well

so SK may very well use his supernatural power to force the motherboard to operate as it should, despite the problems with balance existing, which in turn causes the other 3 to work properly too

meanwhile the Shinigami are working on actually solving the problem

SK does not neccessarily need to deal with the other 3 directly for him to help to keep them "intact"


----------



## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> no
> 
> there are two aspects in this: the souls and the worlds
> 
> ...



NO! 

Just messing with you, I get what you're saying. Fair enough.


----------



## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He regens right after normally.



"right after" is a relative term, there is no set time that passes between panels

so no, we can't say with confidence that he wouldn't have regenerated the arm if he wasn't swallowed under these circumstances

if he managed to actually have an opportunity say something like "my arm isn't regenerating" then it would have been another story



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No,Baz-B make a pretty good fight after Auscwaken.
> If a Stern could beat him,Auschwalen isn't winning the fight for him.



except he can't

if not Auswahlen, then Almighty

he already has the "offence" and "defence" to deal with them



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Quncys are human beings.
> Gremmy was always a brain,the bodies where not "real".



I wasn't talking about Gremmy

and way to miss the point



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No,the time for the 9 years hadn't finished yet.



it was pretty much finished



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> That isn't what we are shown.



and how do you think it was supposed to look?

tiny block by block with panels of Yhwach holding his head?



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Except Haschwald was talking about the Quincy's special abilities and Auschwalen doesn't straight up kill the Sterns.
> 
> Baz-B,Gigi and Liltotto survived it and managed to go to the soul palace to fight Haschwald and Ywach.



*sigh*

he doesn't need to straight up kill them to be considered stronger, nor does he need to posses the same hax as them

he just needs a better defence and offense than them, which he has - both conventional DC and durability wise and hax wise via Auswahlen and Almighty



Hamaru said:


> NO!
> 
> Just messing with you, I get what you're saying. Fair enough.



there might be something that proves he actually holds the worlds together

but no fucking way will I go looking for it


----------



## TehDarkDarkOfPerdition (Aug 1, 2016)

Hamaru said:


> I already know this. I'm talking to DT about what is holding things together while the scales are being balanced, not the actual act of balancing them.


The Balance itself(the scale), is what is keeping the worlds from merging/reverting back to their original form.

The scale is the bleach-verse itself, one side is the dimension of SS(one plate) the other is the dimension of the Real World(other plate), the Reishi souls are what act as the weights on each side of the scale, for some unknown reason(If Juha Bach's statement is to be true the worlds were at some point forced apart and the SS created the SK to keep the balance for the scale, that keeps them separated) if one side becomes more or less heavy the scale will break and the dimensions will remerge.

The SK is the _Balancer, _the Shinigami are the ones who then highlight(The Reishi souls that they kill or Soul Burial with Zanpakuto) what the SK can then use to _balance _with_.
_
That's probably why they were called "Shinigamis" instead of "Balancers" anymore, because the way they correct the balance of souls is literally _killing_ whomever resides in that dimension so that the SK can then use them as weights for the scale, so that it doesn't break.


----------



## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> "right after" is a relative term, there is no set time that passes between panels
> 
> so no, we can't say with confidence that he wouldn't have regenerated the arm if he wasn't swallowed under these circumstances
> 
> if he managed to actually have an opportunity say something like "my arm isn't regenerating" then it would have been another story



Context and Orihime failing to fix Zangetsu makes it the safer bet.



DarkTorrent said:


> I wasn't talking about Gremmy
> 
> and way to miss the point



Who evolved ?



DarkTorrent said:


> it was pretty much finished



No,"could see this far with my eyes closed".



DarkTorrent said:


> and how do you think it was supposed to look?
> 
> tiny block by block with panels of Yhwach holding his head?



It didn't amassed a buch of debris,the buildings where not cracked in any way and the tower wasn't made from the small houses that where there a second earlier.



DarkTorrent said:


> *sigh*
> 
> he doesn't need to straight up kill them to be considered stronger, nor does he need to posses the same hax as them
> 
> he just needs a better defence and offense than them, which he has - both conventional DC and durability wise and hax wise via Auswahlen and Almighty



Then he can use Allmighty to kill someone he can't damage with conventional attacks,because he was described as superior to them not taking Auschwalen into account when Haschwald said only Ishida's letter could had worked.


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## Hamaru (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> there might be something that proves he actually holds the worlds together
> 
> but no fucking way will I go looking for it



Well, someone has to do it, and it isn't THAT important to me. Just go for it DT, deep down you know you want to


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Context and Orihime failing to fix Zangetsu makes it the safer bet.



I've already adressed the context

Almighty imposing an outcome on reality was just stronger than Orihime's ability to reject an outcome

has nothing to do with regeneration



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Who evolved ?



Gerard? Pernida?

though now that I think about it the details concerning them ended up unclear iirc

even still my point stands, Quincy have displayed change in biological (a guy grew a fucking beak ffs) structure



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> No,"could see this far with my eyes closed".



Almighty awoke that very fight

so yes, it was almost finished



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> It didn't amassed a buch of debris,the buildings where not cracked in any way and the tower wasn't made from the small houses that where there a second earlier.



and why are you assuming that is the only way TK is supposed to look like?

it's like you've never seen anything of Phoenix Jean Grey, and I didn't think that was possible in our age and time

TK pretty much can look like matter manipulation



lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Then he can use Allmighty to kill someone he can't damage with conventional attacks,because he was described as superior to them not taking Auschwalen into account when Haschwald said only Ishida's letter could had worked.



we are going nowhere

first we were running in circles with you clinging to your belief that he needs to have their hax to be considered stronger than them

now you are moving the goalpost

and I'm getting tired of this, because clearly this discussion is a waste of time

but no, Haschwald did not exclude anything from Yhwach's arsenal

he just said that Ishida may counter the Almighty then retracted his statement


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## Keishin (Aug 1, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> *sigh*
> 
> look, lets go with your structure example:
> 
> ...


"minutes, hours, days passed by when Mimihagi disappeared up as Urahara raised his head towards the sky and opened his eyes wide as Yhwach's beam came down."
 What was the limit of TSB again, 70 meters? 


And really, totally not PIS when he's the strongest person in the verse with the most broken ability. It doesn't matter if he has weakness or not, my point was that he can't lose in Bleach without PIS. When he used the Almighty to break Ichigo's horn, he could have used that just as well to have his head on his palm instead.

That super "hax" kaguya (or was it madara) used, the Infinite Tsukyomi doesn't even work on ghosts


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

Keishin said:


> "minutes, hours, days passed by when Mimihagi disappeared up as Urahara raised his head towards the sky and opened his eyes wide as Yhwach's beam came down."



so you don't have a definite timeframe

ok


Keishin said:


> What was the limit of TSB again, 70 meters?



what does TSB have to do with anything?

especially concerning speed?


Keishin said:


> And really, totally not PIS when he's the strongest person in the verse with the most broken ability. It doesn't matter if he has weakness or not, my point was that he can't lose in Bleach without PIS. When he used the Almighty to break Ichigo's horn, he could have used that just as well to have his head on his palm instead.



never stated PIS was not involved at all

what I said is you can't just throw out 200 chapters as PIS because you want to wank Almighty

he didn't do it because he couldn't, he couldn't because plot demanded it to be limited to this, no matter how little sense that limitation you believe makes



Keishin said:


> That super "hax" kaguya (or was it madara) used, the Infinite Tsukyomi doesn't even work on ghosts



> Bleach characters
> ghosts

never thought I would see this old debunked argument appear again

there were no ghosts present when IT was casted btw


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## Imagine (Aug 1, 2016)

Bleach characters are intangible.


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## Lucino (Aug 1, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Bleach characters are intangible.


Get out


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## Imagine (Aug 1, 2016)

Stop downplaying, nerd.


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## Lucino (Aug 1, 2016)

Bleach wankers these days when will they learn


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## Imagine (Aug 1, 2016)

Logic = wanking 

Lmfao OBDers


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

go wank some hobos, Imagine


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## Lucino (Aug 1, 2016)

-Still wanking HST in 2016 

Classic OBD


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## Imagine (Aug 1, 2016)

Go do some fan wank calculations, nerd. Rotfl


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## DarkTorrent (Aug 1, 2016)

but it's you who are the calcing nerd here lmao

not me


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## Nighty the Mighty (Aug 1, 2016)

okay this thread is done.



if you'd like to continue discussing Yhwach's limits then take your argument to this thread, if you want I can move some posts over to make it easier to follow.

in the mean time locking this


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