# Gaara is actually stronger without Shukaku?



## JackRyder (Aug 20, 2012)

You mean the past 600 chapters about how Naruto should accept his inner demon and work together with the Kyuubi to gain greater strength was all bullshit?

Either that or Gaara being stronger without the Ichibi is bullshit.  I say the latter.  It's a noticeable drop in chakra and he can't even go into tailed mode or chakra mode anymore like Naruto can.


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## Chibason (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara managed to become stronger over time, after losing his bijuu....but he'd be even stronger now with his bijuu...


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## kzk (Aug 20, 2012)

Just goes to show the importance of a good night's sleep.


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## zenieth (Aug 20, 2012)

He's stronger without Shukaku because Shukaku is a bitch ass hater.

It's like Naruto pre kyuubi help.

Fucker was draining his chakra ability not aiding him.

bitch shukaku who don't pay rent and does nothing but keep gaara up all fucking day < Current Gaara < Current Gaara + a non bitch tier freeloading Shukaku


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## Vice (Aug 20, 2012)

zenieth said:


> He's stronger without Shukaku because Shukaku is a bitch ass hater.
> 
> It's like Naruto pre kyuubi help.
> 
> ...



This. What a biggity-bitch.


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## Nidaime Mizukage (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara trained himself to become stronger as Kazekage, his base strength has always been incredible. Without Shukaku he now doesn't have a safety net and fights with more conviction, of course he's stronger without it. 

Will of Wind


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## ovanz (Aug 20, 2012)

Shukkaku was a drunken fatass. Imagine if gaara was friend with sober shukkaku, then he would be stronger.


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## Saunion (Aug 20, 2012)

If Gaara managed to control/befriend Shukaku like what Bee and Naruto did with their tailed beasts, he'd be significantly stronger than what he is now.

Current Gaara is a bit like a Kyuubiless Naruto who could use perfect Sage Mode by fusing with Ma and Pa. Extremely strong but not top tier.


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## Bart (Aug 20, 2012)

No :3

It's pretty obvious that Gaara would have obviously been even stronger than he actually is now if he had Shukaku, and it should be noted that when Deidara attacked Sunagakure that Gaara didn't rely on Shukaku.

Him not suffering from insomnia or having an automatic defence are among the other things he's lost :WOW


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## Leptirica (Aug 20, 2012)

Until recently, kyuubi was more of liability for Naruto than a power-up. And Gaara never got a chance to work with his bijuu the way Naruto does now.


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## Nidaime Mizukage (Aug 20, 2012)

Saunion said:


> If Gaara managed to control/befriend Shukaku like what Bee and Naruto did with their tailed beasts, he'd be significantly stronger than what he is now.
> 
> Current Gaara is a bit like a Kyuubiless Naruto who could use perfect Sage Mode by fusing with Ma and Pa. *Extremely strong but not top tier*.




*Spoiler*: __


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## principito (Aug 20, 2012)

JackRyder said:


> You mean the past 600 chapters about how Naruto should accept his inner demon and work together with the Kyuubi to gain greater strength was all bullshit?
> 
> Either that or Gaara being stronger without the Ichibi is bullshit.  I say the latter.  It's a noticeable drop in chakra and he can't even go into tailed mode or chakra mode anymore like Naruto can.



Well, all the jins in theory were selected because they had some special chakra ability and/or compatibility with a bijuu

than being said, it wouldnt be surprising that Gaara was a chakra beast even before shukaku


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## PDQ (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara is clearly at least as strong as Shukaku because his dad thought it literally was Shukaku when he saw his sand.  
Gaara probably is using Shukaku chakra mode, but his _Suna no Yoroi_ is hiding it, so when Akatsuki sealed away Shukaku, it just meant he was free to use the chakra he stole away without Shukaku stealing his in return.

Naruto probably could too using KCM if Kurama was removed but extraction under normal circumstances would kill him.  The reason he needs to work with Kurama is because Kurama is otherwise holding him back.


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## Nidaime Mizukage (Aug 20, 2012)

PDQ said:


> Gaara is clearly at least as strong as Shukaku because his dad thought it literally was Shukaku when he saw his sand.
> Gaara probably is using Shukaku chakra mode, but his _Suna no Yoroi_ is hiding it, so when Akatsuki sealed away Shukaku, it just meant he was free to use the chakra he stole away without Shukaku stealing his in return.
> 
> Naruto probably could too using KCM if Kurama was removed but extraction under normal circumstances would kill him.  The reason he needs to work with Kurama is because Kurama is otherwise holding him back.



No. Gaara has that ability from his mother, not because he "stole" it from Shukaku.

As for Naruto using the KCM with Kurama removed... I doubt it. But then again, Kinkaku/Ginkaku.


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## Dark Red Z (Aug 20, 2012)

Give 1M and 1M+ to current, sane Gaara, like Naruto has 9M and 9M+, see what happens.


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## Saunion (Aug 20, 2012)

Nidaime Mizukage said:


> *Spoiler*: __



Your pic isn't showing, but I guess reading the link you tried to be witty with a "what am I reading" macro. 

Gaara isn't top tier. That's people like Madara, Tobi or BM Naruto.


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## dark messiah verdandi (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara could have been stronger now, had he known bee as well as naruto does.
If they had become friends, gaara could have learned to forgive shukaku.
He forgave his dad.

Then he would have become yet another pefect jinchuuriki.

Shukaku chakra mode... Gaara would turn sand colored and have shukaku's eye pigment.
Not to mention, drawing on shukaku's ichibi chakra while staying small. Gaara would become a BEAST.

While ichibi has only one tail, it is strong as hell.
Having one tail doesn't mean you are weak, it means there isn't any buildup to full power. So, it's still DEFINITELY bijuu level chakra.

The lack of tails just means that without chakra mode, gaara could not condense shukaku's true power at a small scale.

The more tails, the more power a bijuu can use in a jinchuuriki.


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## Ejenku (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara is stronger yes but if he still had Shukaku and mastered it he would of been even stronger.


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## Star★Platinum (Aug 20, 2012)

Like others said, if Shukaku actually helped out then he'd be stronger.


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## Seph (Aug 20, 2012)

Personally I think this is a retcon and an incredible bastardization of basic logic.


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## spiritmight (Aug 20, 2012)

Kishi's treatment of the Bijuu has been less than stellar, in my eyes.

We're supposed to believe that these things are sympathetic baby pokemon when you have Shukaku, who was previously established as some kind of corrupted, malicious spirit who *EATS AWAY AT YOUR PERSONALITY* if you ever fall asleep?

It's no reason Kishi didn't bring him up in the Bijuu fight.


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## Johnny Kage (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara, after he lost his shukaku


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## PDQ (Aug 20, 2012)

Nidaime Mizukage said:


> No. Gaara has that ability from his mother, not because he "stole" it from Shukaku.
> 
> As for Naruto using the KCM with Kurama removed... I doubt it. But then again, Kinkaku/Ginkaku.



I think his mother just handles the absolute defense to protect him.  His actual sand power is still basically Shukaku's, unless his mother's spirit merged with Shukaku.  Only Shukaku Jinchuurikis can use sand.


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## Black Mirror (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaara could finally sleep and dream of something nice after so many years.Possible that's he's stronger after that.


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## Van Konzen (Aug 20, 2012)

Seph said:


> Personally I think this is a retcon and an incredible bastardization of basic logic.



this.

if you aint riding Kishi's dick,
we all know the sand sh!t was originally from shikaku 
until Kishi fuqd his mind and made the nine tails cloak
applied to the other bijuus and granted different types
of Sand control to Kazekages in part 2 for Gaara-power ups..

well Kishi is the boss..
we'll just have live to believe the way the story goes..


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 20, 2012)

It's difficult to tell whether Shukaku was more of a drag than a benefit.  I'd guess that he held Gaara back because Gaara tried to avoid using him anyway, but that's just me.  We also don't know if Shukaku would ever cooperate with Gaara or not, or how Gaara's inability to sleep affected him (also, he might still not be able to sleep; his body might be permanently altered).

Imo, it's not worth speculating about unless we get more concrete info.




redfang45 said:


> we all know the sand sh!t was originally from shikaku



Um, no.  Even during the Chunin Exams, Kishi implied that Karura had something to do with Suna no Yoroi.  It just wasn't confirmed until the war.


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## iJutsu (Aug 21, 2012)

Wouldn't really do him any good against Madara. Kyuubi already confirmed Shukaku is weaker than him, and I doubt Madara would compare himself to a weak one.


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## Van Konzen (Aug 21, 2012)

Gaawa-chan said:


> Um, no.  Even during the Chunin Exams, Kishi implied that Karura had something to do with Suna no Yoroi.  It just wasn't confirmed until the war.



it wasnt confirmed until Kishi made up his mind in Part 2
and do a retcon no jutsu..

i am referring to Shukaku having the power of the sand..
Gaara still having his Sand after losing Shukaku is an ass pull..
Part 1 clearly shows that his Sand control was bcoz he has Shukaku
if you aint doing a cowboy for Kishi..

sand control of the Kazekages were made in Part 2..
just a replay..


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## Gaawa-chan (Aug 21, 2012)

redfang45 said:


> Part 1 clearly shows that his Sand control was bcoz he has Shukaku
> if you aint doing a cowboy for Kishi.



UM. NO.
I am not a particular fan of Kishimoto.  I am a particular fan of GAARA, so I would like to think that I know what I am talking about.

This has been discussed at length before in the Gaara FC and elsewhere.  Kishimoto never specifically stated that Gaara's typical sand jutsu was dependent on Shukaku.  He also never indicated whether it was Shukaku or Karura's spirit that was responsible for the automatic defense but again, it was heavily implied during the Chunin Exams that it was due to Karura.

An ACTUAL ret-con example is Gaara's revised back-story as revealed during the war arc.  We KNOW that was a ret-con because of the meaning of Gaara's name.


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## icemaster143 (Aug 21, 2012)

NO Gaara is not stronger without the Shukaku he simply had better control than when his father last saw him. 

WHile Gaara has retained the abilities of a Jinchuuriki he will never have the raw power the Shukaku has.


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## crystalblade13 (Aug 21, 2012)

Bart said:


> No :3
> 
> It's pretty obvious that Gaara would have obviously been even stronger than he actually is now if he had Shukaku, and it should be noted that when Deidara attacked Sunagakure that Gaara didn't rely on Shukaku.
> 
> Him not suffering from insomnia or having an automatic defence are among the other things he's lost :WOW



His momma provides the auto defense.


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## Bart (Aug 21, 2012)

Whoops sorry; when I posted that I just remembered :3

But here is it,

*Gaara with Shukaku*
_Shukaku's Chakra
Ultimate Absolute Defence_

*Gaara without Shukaku*
_No longer having insomnia
No longer having Shukaku's Chakra 
No Ultimate Absolute Defence
Lack of other Bijuu related abilities_


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## DraconianMithril (Aug 21, 2012)

If Shukaku actually cared...He would have just Arisen out of Gaara and Destroyed Deidara's no clay one armed-self. One Fuuton Bijuu-Dama and BOOM! This time not because of Dee-Dee-chan. 

However the reason they haven't shown Shukaku in this current Bijuu War is because Shukaku has and forever will be Tobi's little bisnitch. He betrayed the Bijuu that is how Tobi knew how to easily subdue them all. Shukaku gave away important Bijuu and Rikudo Secrets to this evil man. This is because the Kyuubi use to bitch him, however Kurama bitched him because Kurama knew Shukaku was capable of this treachery.


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## crystalblade13 (Aug 21, 2012)

Bart said:


> Whoops sorry; when I posted that I just remembered :3
> 
> But here is it,
> 
> ...



WRONG His mommy provides that 

Look here.

Link removed

In the second panel, gaaras not even looking and the sand is coming up.


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## zenieth (Aug 21, 2012)

I'd like to point out that it was stated that Shinobi who are jin's naturally have the aptitude to be really fucking amazing ninja. Bijuu are not automatic bonuses, they're only that after you gain a partnershio with them.

Until that time, Bijuu are nothing more than limiters that fuck up a shinobi's potential. This isn't retconned, though a lot of Kishi shit is, it's been there from part 1

Gaara and Shukaku don't have a good relationship so there's no reason to believe a gaara with shukaku would be better than he is now, since bijuu fuck over chakra control and only provide that amazing chakra reserve when it's in their benefit.

Current Gaara is stronger than Gaara with Shukaku cause that Gaara wasn't getting jack shit out of the deal, and yes Insomnia would hamper him because no sleep drains stamina, less stamina means less chakra not including the whole dream eating and paranoia shit.

And speaking of Shinobi being better than Bijuu on their own, well yeah just compare what solo bijuu have done compare dto jin partnerships. I mean flashback Kyuubi looks like a complete bitch compared to SYMBOLIC NARUTO PARTNERSHIP MODU


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## Kage (Aug 22, 2012)

Truthfully shukaku did more harm than good in the first place. I would say it's all for the best since he seemed too bloodthirsty to be reasoned with but then we got the chibi bijuus...plus the whole idea of it being possible to get along with and work together despite came about.

he's strong without him but would be stronger if they were a team.


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## Joker J (Aug 22, 2012)

I wouldn't say stronger, we only seen him fight once in part 2 against Deidara...


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