# Itachi and Sasuke vs Ino



## Risyth (Dec 12, 2013)

*EDITED*

Location: Neji vs Kidoumaru
State: IC
Restrictions: Speed Equal, only base Sharingan allowed, *summons*, *finger-genjutsu*
Distance: 100m; Itachi and Sasuke are on the ground. Ino is up in branches.
Current versions of everyone but Itachi (Sasuke vs Itachi). 

Ino gets anime and SoY manga feats.  . And . And .


Been thinking about this one for a while. How would it go?


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## Rocky (Dec 12, 2013)

I'm just going to say that either Itachi or Sasuke probably solo without their Sharingan, period. And no, that doesn't include Susano'o.

Now let me open up those hyperlinks.

EDIT: Yep, either of the Uchiha casually dispatch her like a bug. All you did was equalize speed. While Itachi and the Sauce are quick, that asset is hardly their most deadly. Sasuke is a Top-Tier, and Itachi is a High-Tier, and you've teamed them up and pitted them against Ino, who resides at the bottom of the barrel. When you have gaps that large, there isn't any point in debating. 

For example, Madara spanked Onoki and Muu, Kage-level guys, using a *fraction* of his power. He was holding back to the point that he compared it to how one would play fight a small child. Itachi's entire Genjutsu arsenal is pretty much unrestricted, which is just unfair to any single Konoha rookie. Sasuke still has his summons, Raiton, Katon, weapons, and Genjutsu of his own, which is equally ridiculous against such trash competition like Ino.

It's like you tried to put Ino in a situation where she has to "out-ninja" somebody, and yet you think _Itachi _is a good opponent. Itachi, the master of subtle tricks and former Black Ops captain, is quite possibly the worst opponent. Ino is in some trees a hundred meters away from the man that received praise for his intellect being on par with that of a Hokage when he was seven. The dude also accurately planned out his brother's entire life, including staging a deathmatch, in which he accounted for everything Sasuke did, including contingency plans.

Do you think Ino can out ninja that. 

I think it's more likely for Itachi to capture Ino in the mind transfer than vise versa.


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## Risyth (Dec 12, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I'm just going to say that either Itachi or Sasuke probably solo without their Sharingan, period. And no, that doesn't include Susano'o.
> 
> Now let me open up those hyperlinks.



Please do.... 

I have no idea how you can come to that conclusion.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 12, 2013)

Even with speed equal Sharingan pre-cog and Itachi's hand-seal mastery grant Uchiha Bros strong advantage. And with superb base skills with weapons and bunshin-feints I see Itachi soloing comfortably. He either blows her up with Bunshin Daibakuha or chain-throws some kunais. Sharingan also might be able to detect chakra of Ino Shinten-variants blasts after they are launched - making dodging easier.


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## ueharakk (Dec 12, 2013)

she's never hit someone who was actually trying to dodge her attack in base.  She's always had some kind of help or the target was stationary and focused on something else and while she's in the process of doing it, no one has ever attacked her.  She's not hitting two people who have high movement speed especially sasuke with his shushin feats.

Even if she magically does hit one of them, the other one just kills her in the meantime, and remember that any damage she does to the body she is in is done to her own.  

Plus Itachi has bunshins, Sasuke has summons, spray attacks and both are much faster than her at casting their jutsu.

Finally, she was able to somewhat control Tobi for all of 2 seconds, I don't see her controlling someone like current Sasuke for much longer.


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

Itachi points his finger at her.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Itachi points his finger at her.


Don't be silly, Kevin-kun. Ino is a sensor with knowledge. With good chakra-control. Genjutsu is non-factor


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

So was C.

Sasuke broke C.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> So was C.
> 
> Sasuke broke C.


That was MS genjutsu iirc.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

It wasn't.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Why did Sasuke look like he just used MS though? Grabbing his face and all. 

That aside, Finger genjutsu = Sasuke's best Sharingan genjutsu?


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I'm just going to say that either Itachi or Sasuke probably solo without their Sharingan, period. And no, that doesn't include Susano'o.
> 
> Now let me open up those hyperlinks.
> 
> ...



What genjutsu can be used by Sasuke and Itachi to affect a sensor ninja at 100m when they can barely see her in the canopy? How does intellect alone win a fight? You've gotta give me more than that to convince me for either side. If someone (I can think of a few names) wanks Ino, I'd say the same thing.

What does Madara have to do with anything?

But, yes, I should restrict summons. Stupid of me to forget that....



> Even if she magically does hit one of them, the other one just kills her in the meantime, and remember that any damage she does to the body she is in is done to her own.



Take a look at her noncanon feats in the OP. One allows for multiple possessions. One allows for possession without leaving her body. One swaps any number of her targets' minds at the cost of high, and we know that wouldn't go well for the two. (Well, maybe Itachi could handle it.)

And, of course, we assume they all have the usual lethal ninja tools.


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## Lace (Dec 13, 2013)

Oh dear poor Ino.
She'd lose against just one of them


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

alex payne said:


> That aside, Finger genjutsu = Sasuke's best Sharingan genjutsu?



The manga and databook never say that Sharingan genjutsu is more powerful. It's simply faster. The exception being special Mangekyō techniques like Tsukuyomi or Kotoamatsukami.

Itachi's a more hyped genjutsu user than Hashirama, and Hashirama at like 5% power trapped Hiruzen in an illusion. The notion that finger genjutsu only works on fodder isn't realistic, just necessary.

Or more to the point: if some random clam kuchiyose can keep multiple Kage in a mass genjutsu, then the most hyped genjutsu user's single target genjutsu isn't going to be brushed off. 

By Ino.​


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> The manga and databook never saw genjutsu cast with the Sharingan is more powerful, just faster. Itachi's a more hyped genjutsu user than Hashirama, who had Hiruzen cornered with genjutsu.​



Well, restricting genjutsu would make it too biased, but what about just Utakata?


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> What genjutsu can be used by Sasuke and Itachi to affect a sensor ninja at 100m when they can barely see her in the canopy? How does intellect alone win a fight? You've gotta give me more than that to convince me for either side. If someone (I can think of a few names) wanks Ino, I'd say the same thing.




They don't have to try anything at a hundred meters. They can get close then mind fuck her into submission. Why do you need more detail. Even Minato's proficiency in avoiding illusions is among the most highly debated topics. 

Ino isn't dancing around them.



> What does Madara have to do with anything?




I was pointing out how a massive gaps in level can make fights pointless.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> The manga and databook never say that Sharingan genjutsu is more powerful. It's simply faster. The exception being special Mangekyō techniques like Tsukuyomi or Kotoamatsukami.
> 
> Itachi's a more hyped genjutsu user than Hashirama, and Hashirama at like 5% power trapped Hiruzen in an illusion. The notion that finger genjutsu only works on fodder isn't realistic, just necessary.
> 
> ...



I will ask you again.

Is Taka Sasuke's strongest(shown) sharingan genjutsu that had MS-esque backlash and was hyped by C(knowledgeable genjutsu user) equal to Itachi's Utakata? Yes or no.


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## ARGUS (Dec 13, 2013)

Jeeezzz ino is leagues above itachi and sasuke she fodderises them easily 
loll Jkss itachi lifts his finger and rapes her


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

alex payne said:


> I will ask you again.
> 
> Is Taka Sasuke's strongest(shown) sharingan genjutsu that had MS-esque backlash and was hyped by C(knowledgeable genjutsu user) equal to Itachi's Utakata? Yes or no.



Apples and oranges. The two illusions accomplish different goals. One mimics reality and the other smothers you in darkness. My turn! Do you believe this is truly accurate in Kishi's mind?

Clam summon's mass genjutsu > Mū, Gaara, sensors > Ino > Itachi's single-target genjutsu with charge-time?

 Yes or no.​


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## Sans (Dec 13, 2013)

Either casually obliterate her.

Thinking that Kishi would ever draw Ino beating Sasuke or Itachi is fanni.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> They don't have to try anything at a hundred meters. They can get close then mind fuck her into submission. Why do you need more detail. Even Minato's proficiency in avoiding illusions is among the most highly debated topics.
> 
> Ino isn't dancing around them.
> 
> ...



No. Please. Stick to the three combatants. Referring to Madara or Minato or Nagato or the Sage and their separate feats is pointless in this battle where they aren't involved, especially with speed equalized between the three fighters here. 

Do you know how large a distance 100m is? And in a dense forest, no less. Ino has a good lead-space to work with?I don't know why you're assuming she'd just stand there.

Also, two of her noncanon feats (Reverse and Clone) track the target and allow for multiple possessions. And two of them (Reverse and Disturbance) completely foolproof since they don't put Ino at risk. All of them travel as fast as her Switch. You're severely underestimating her.

That's all I'll say about that.




xxHKCDxx said:


> Jeeezzz ino is leagues above itachi and sasuke she fodderises them easily
> loll Jkss itachi lifts his finger and rapes her



I don't think you know how that jutsu works. 

But to prevent wank, I'm going to restrict it.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

I may refer to whomever I like if a situation involving other characters aids me in making a point. A point you still aren't getting.

I'm not underestimating Ino, _you're _highly overestimating her. She doesn't have any business being pitted up against some of the story's top dogs, and these minor enhancements don't even _begin_ to change that. The Uchiha smoke her out of cover with their advanced fire style techniques, then she's picked off by shuriken barrages. _Or_ Itachi and Sasuke simply run her down, read through her Mind Transfer attempts with advanced precognition, dodge them, and kill her.


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## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

@Risyth

Under the conditions of your OP, by hype, do you think ino would defeat Itachi and Sasuke?


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> The two genjutsu accomplish different things. One mimics reality and the other smothers you in darkness. Now let me ask you something! Do you believe this is truly accurate in Kishi's mind?
> 
> Clam Summon's mass genjutsu > Kages > Itachi's single-target + charge-time genjutsu?​


Clam Summon genjutsu affects the area. Similarly to Hashirama's Bringer of Darkness. You can't "dispel" it. 

It affects any number of people present in its AoE.

Is it superior to Itachi's Utakata? Yes, of course.  They accomplish different things but Clam Genjutsu is the superior one. There is no doubt in my mind.

Would Onoki and Gaara be able to deal with Utakata when hit? I'd say yes, with some difficulties. Would they be able to notice it and/or dispel before Itachi cuts their balls off? Now that's a better question. But that's not genjutsu - it is genjutsu+_Itachi_ with his full arsenal. So if we are judging solely genjutsu than your "Clam Summon's mass genjutsu > Kages > Itachi's single-target + charge-time genjutsu" is correct. If you meant Utakata of course.

Now, let me rephrase my question. C is hit by Itachi's Utakata. Itachi wants to remove C from battle using only that one genjutsu. You think Itachi can do it just as good as Sasuke? Yes or no.

For the record, I do think Itachi with Utakata followed by kunai spam can own Ino. But Taka Sasuke owning C has nothing to do with it imo.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> @Risyth
> 
> Under the conditions of your OP, by hype, do you think ino would defeat Itachi and Sasuke?



I say 50% if genjutsu's not restricted. I think I'm going to restrict Utakata only. It's less effective than sharingan genjutsu in this setting, but people will be overhyping it to hell and back.




Rocky said:


> I may refer to whomever I like if a situation involving other characters aids me in making a point. A point you still aren't getting.
> 
> I'm not underestimating Ino, _you're _highly overestimating her. She doesn't have any business being pitted up against some of the story's top dogs, and these minor enhancements don't even _begin_ to change that. The Uchiha smoke her out of cover with their advanced fire style techniques, then she's picked off by shuriken barrages. _Or_ Itachi and Sasuke simply run her down, read through her Mind Transfer attempts with advanced precognition, dodge them, and kill her.



Your references suck since they're completely unrelated and have proved nothing as far as this match-up is concerned. I'll ignore them.

I'm sorry. I thought precog was for chakra only. You have proof that it can sense Ino's mind?

And Iol at Ino losing to katon and shuriken, let alone at equal speed. Please, entertain my more.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Restrict whatever you want. Ino doesn't have a ghost of a chance against both Base Sasuke and Base Itachi unless you literally take away their ability to move.


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## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> I say 50% if genjutsu's not restricted. I think I'm going to restrict Utakata only. It's less effective than sharingan genjutsu in this setting, but people will be overhyping it to hell and back.


 When did any of her feats that you've given show her taking out people like current sharingan sasuke and itachi at the same time?


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Restrict whatever you want. Ino doesn't have a ghost of a chance against both Base Sasuke and Base Itachi unless you literally take away their ability to move.



Wank at its finest. I'm beginning to think you're Kishi himself. 



ueharakk said:


> When did any of her feats that you've given show her taking out people like current sharingan sasuke and itachi at the same time?



They scale to TS power as she does. They're all the same level of power as her regular Mind Transfer Jutsu, just with different effects. If you can prove that they can avoid these jutsu from that distance and inferior speed or break out if they're hit, I'll get it.


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

alex payne said:


> Itachi wants to remove C from battle using only that one genjutsu. You think Itachi can do it just as good as Sasuke? Yes or no.



Oh, I see your phrasing now. Yes though. Naruto would've passed out if Chiyo and Sakura hadn't been standing next to him to rescue him. C would be shown psychologically damaging things, then faint.​


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Your references suck since they're completely unrelated and have proved nothing as far as this match-up is concerned. I'll ignore them.




Maybe you don't understand the concept of "tier."

Ssauke soloes this with his killer intent.



> I'm sorry. I thought precog was for chakra only. You have proof that it can sense Ino's mind?




She has to use her hand to aim the Jutsu. The Sharingan can see that coming, granting its user plenty of time to avoid.



> And Iol at Ino losing to katon and shuriken, let alone at equal speed. Please, entertain my more.




I like how you added "let alone" equal speed.  Without it, Sasuke would literally speed blitz and drive his lighting sword into her eye socket, 100m or not.

But anyway, yeah, causing a forest fire right in her grill would probably force her out into the open. Once she's there..



Dead Ino.



> Wank at its finest. I'm beginning to think you're Kishi himself.




Calling _me _ of all people an "Itachi wanker" lowers your credibility, not mine.


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## Alex Payne (Dec 13, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Oh, I see your phrasing now. Yes though. Naruto would've passed out if Chiyo and Sakura hadn't been standing next to him to rescue him. C would be shown psychologically damaging things, then faint.​


So start of P2 Naruto's genjutsu defense is comparable to one of Kumo's Elite sensor who specializes in genjutsu and medical jutsu?


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## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> *They scale to TS power as she does.* They're all the same level of power as her regular Mind Transfer Jutsu, just with different effects.


what are you talking about with the bolded?  



Risyth said:


> If you can prove that they can avoid these jutsu from that distance and inferior speed or break out if they're hit, I'll get it.


why do I have to prove that?  Shouldn't it be you who has to prove that considering she's never ever hit anyone, fast or slow, who's actually tried to avoid her jutsu?  And shouldn't it be you who has to prove that considering she nor her father have ever mind/body switched anyone on the brother's levels for more than a moment?

Ino's never been portrayed at the level of the brothers even with these restrictions, if feats are inconclusive the benefit of the doubt goes to the guys who are hyped as the one's who should win.  In this thread, the brothers are those guys.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Dec 13, 2013)

Shintenbunshin at 10,000,000 mph results in an Uchiha double homicide pact.  Ino dah best.


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

alex payne said:


> So start of P2 Naruto's genjutsu defense is comparable to one of Kumo's Elite sensor who specializes in genjutsu and medical jutsu?



Portrayal-wise? Duh. Feat-wise? The Rasengan is better chakra control.

A meh body-guard wouldn't break Itachi's genjutsu.


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## Sans (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm pretty sure Rocky thinks Itachi loses pretty much any of the fights that are commonly accepted as either popular or close (and that's totally fine).

Calling him an Itachi wanker for his posts in this thread basically just demonstrates how utterly overestimated Ino is by Risyth.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

^ I actually think he can beat Kabuto on even terms, though I don't know if that counts.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Maybe you don't understand the concept of "tier."
> 
> Ssauke soloes this with his killer intent.



Sssasuke-kun!! SSSASUKE-TTE BA!! _Kimi wo amari aishimasu wa!!!_ 




> She has to use her hand to aim the Jutsu. The Sharingan can see that coming, granting its user plenty of time to avoid.



Did you listen? _"Also, two of her noncanon feats (Reverse and Clone) track the target and allow for multiple possessions. And two of them (Reverse and Disturbance) completely foolproof since they don't put Ino at risk. All of them travel as fast as her Switch. You're severely underestimating her."_

Sharingan cannot perceive Shintenshin in action. There is no chakra involved after it's shot. Also, you can't aim-dodge attacks that track you. Aim-dodging her hands isn't even using the Sharingan's precog, anyway, so it makes no difference.... 

And I don't think you get what 100m in a dense forest against an opponent in cover means here. You're blatantly ignoring everything about this battle, as expected.




> _I like how you added "let alone" equal speed.  Without it, Sasuke would literally speed blitz and drive his lighting sword into her eye socket, 100m or not._
> Irrelevant. Ignored.
> 
> _But anyway, yeah, causing a forest fire right in her grill would probably force her out into the open. Once she's there.._
> ...



Yes, they can throw shuriken in a room. I'm very proud.

If only shuriken killed things in Naruto.


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## Sans (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> ^ I actually think he can beat Kabuto on even terms, though I don't know if that counts.



By even terms what do you mean exactly?

I think Itachi can win if you restrict Kabuto's Edo Tensei which is a valid part of his power, and was essentially restricted by plot.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Manga knowledge, neutral location, Edo Tensei restricted (I forgot about it to be honest).


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> what are you talking about with the bolded?



Her Shintenshin got as good as when we last saw her. These other filler attacks are scaled to her current manga self.



> why do I have to prove that?  Shouldn't it be you who has to prove that considering she's never ever hit anyone, fast or slow, who's actually tried to avoid her jutsu?  And shouldn't it be you who has to prove that considering she nor her father have ever mind/body switched anyone on the brother's levels for more than a moment?
> 
> Ino's never been portrayed at the level of the brothers even with these restrictions, if feats are inconclusive the benefit of the doubt goes to the guys who are hyped as the one's who should win.  In this thread, the brothers are those guys.



I love how you're still assuming she only has Shintenshin in spite of the other numerously referenced jutsu I gave her that shine bright orange in the OP. I also love how you forget that all of Ino's targets when she used that jutsu had been faster than the jutsu and now speed is equalized and the jutsu travels faster than Ino does. I think you know what that means for Shintenshin, let alone the other jutsu of hers. 

That aside, I'm not trying to argue against a side. I've never discredited Itachi or Sasuke in this thread. But I'm fighting against this underestimation and fanboyism that I knew would happen. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to debate MYSELF in the BattleDome. If you never have anything to say besides who you think would win, maybe this isn't the right place for you.


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## Sadgoob (Dec 13, 2013)

> If only shuriken killed things in Naruto.



By that logic, Amaterasu can't kill anything in the BD either.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

I didn't know the _shuriken_ were a guaranteed win of all things. Weren't summonings restricted, btw? 



> Ino's jutsu has never killed anybody.



Ninja edit. My point still stands. That Itachi vs Sasuke feat isn't happening, as if it would've happened anyway.

Shintenshin and its variants aren't supposed to kill anybody. We both know that. But I gave Ino the ninja tools to kill them both so there's no draw. She can also possess one or both of them and have them attack each other. Or she can mindfuck them with Shingyakushin (Reverse) and that'll be the world's easiest opening to take advantage of.


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## Sans (Dec 13, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Manga knowledge, neutral location, Edo Tensei restricted (I forgot about it to be honest).



Yeah I can agree to this.


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Actually Ino couldn't win.


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## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Her Shintenshin got as good as when we last saw her. These other filler attacks are scaled to her current manga self.


okay 




Risyth said:


> I love how you're still assuming she only has Shintenshin in spite of the other numerously referenced jutsu I gave her that shine bright orange in the OP.


I don't see the difference. The main deal is if she can get her target with those jutsu and all of her jutsus you've mentioned have never been against someone trying to avoid it they've all been against people standing still or lying down unconscious.



Risyth said:


> I also love how you forget that all of Ino's targets when she used that jutsu had been faster than the jutsu and now speed is equalized and the jutsu travels faster than Ino does. I think you know what that means for Shintenshin, let alone the other jutsu of hers.


It doesn't even matter how fast her targets were compared to her jutsu, all of them were standing still or lying down and didn't even know she was there.  You are now asserting that she somehow gets people who have the sharingan prediction with those jutsu who actually know she's there, are moving and will try and dodge it?  It's clear as day that you've got to argue your case.



Risyth said:


> That aside, I'm not trying to argue against a side. I've never discredited Itachi or Sasuke in this thread. But I'm fighting against this underestimation and fanboyism that I knew would happen. I wasn't aware that I was supposed to debate MYSELF in the BattleDome. If you never have anything to say besides who you think would win, maybe this isn't the right place for you.


When you state stuff like this:


Risyth said:


> If you can prove that they can avoid these jutsu from that distance and inferior speed or break out if they're hit, I'll get it.



then it's pretty much implying which side you are taking.  Not only that but no one can really 'prove' anything in the battledome, it's all about which seems more plausible than not, and the person who wants X to be true can just say 'prove Y is true' and just reject any kind of 'evidence' as not conclusive by just setting the bar for what you consider 'proof' impossibly high when compared to the manga evidence you have to work with.  
If you were really neutral, you would ask for one side to 'prove' theirs is true, you'd ask for one side to show why theirs is more plausible than the other side.  By that method of evaluation, it's pretty clear that ino's shintenshin does not hit the brothers when they try to dodge.


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## Sans (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Idk. How about you read the OP where summons are restricted and use some logic in knowing that her Shintenshin is faster than shuriken.
> 
> Note that I'm not saying Ino WOULD win, but I'm giving the rather obvious methods that she COULD win. There's already enough Itachi/Sasuke siders to cover that team.
> 
> Meh, what's the point in this forum. I'm breaking, k.



Restricting kuchiyose would be useful if I was talking about Sasuke, which I clearly wasn't in regards to shurikenjutsu.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that shintenshin won't connect when it's struggled to connect against people with far less intellect, who can also substitute in bunshins, and have the Sharingan to warn against any jutsu execution.

Giving Ino a forest and 100m to play in doesn't help in the slightest. She's getting prep time against people who have more equipment, are more versatile and more intelligent.

It's not going out on a limb to say that when you have clones, ninjutsu, genjutsu, you will probably be able to barrage Ino with shuriken if you so desire.

If you don't like this forum, feel free to leave; no one is keeping you. But before you complain that this forum is full of wankers, keep in mind that you're arguing with a lot of people who traditionally lowball Itachi's strength (admittedly people who don't as well.) Maybe there are other factors in play here rather than ~ everyone else ~ being completely silly.


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## Garcher (Dec 13, 2013)

Itachi solos


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

^Nice. Thanks for the bump.

You can leave now.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Or keep bumping this thread, idc.


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## Ghost (Dec 13, 2013)

Itachi throws a kunai. GG


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## Rocky (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> ^Nice. Thanks for the bump.
> 
> You can leave now.
> 
> ...






saikyou said:


> Itachi throws a kunai. GG



**


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## Bonly (Dec 13, 2013)

Ino loses more times then not quite handily. If she had help then that's one thing as she is a great support ninja but by herself, she's not as good. Itachi can make clones which messes with Ino's chances of Ino catching Sasuke or Itachi and since the Sharingan can see chakra through solid objects, they'll be able to find her once they get near her. Ino is heavily outclassed by the both of them and her only chance is if she manages to catch the both of them at once, otherwise catching one isn't going to do much good.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Ino loses more times then not quite handily. If she had help then that's one thing as she is a great support ninja but by herself, she's not as good. Itachi can make clones which messes with Ino's chances of Ino catching Sasuke or Itachi and since the Sharingan can see chakra through solid objects, they'll be able to find her once they get near her. Ino is heavily outclassed by the both of them and her only chance is if she manages to catch the both of them at once, otherwise catching one isn't going to do much good.



Why does everyone assume Ino will stand in one spot and do nothing?

No, literally, because her attacks have her essence moving and they cannot be tracked by the sharingan.


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## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

> I don't see the difference. The main deal is if she can get her target with those jutsu and all of her jutsus you've mentioned have never been against someone trying to avoid it they've all been against people standing still or lying down unconscious.



You're talking about Shintenshin, which doesn't track. If the Uchiha brothers decided to use katons, as was said, they'd be still enough for them to be hit, though.

All but one of her filler possessions were used in the PTS, when her Shintenshin was much worse, so that doesn't really matter in this scenario, when she's much faster with them.

And, for the 10th time, two of her possessions do track. One of those tracking allows her to control both brothers at the same time. The other allows her to swap their minds. They have the same insane speed as current Shintenshin, too.




> It doesn't even matter how fast her targets were compared to her jutsu, all of them were standing still or lying down and didn't even know she was there.  You are now asserting that she somehow gets people who have the sharingan prediction with those jutsu who actually know she's there, are moving and will try and dodge it?  It's clear as day that you've got to argue your case.


Again, you're only assuming she'll be using Shintenshin. And again, you should read the OP. I gave her filler feats.

Sharingan prediction is useless vs Shintenshin, even if it is slow. Shintenshin doesn't use chakra as the consciousness travels towards the target, so the sharingan can't see it. That's all there is to that.

I'm not saying she can hit 100% of the time, especially in such a dense area, but when you take into account that her jutsu that can move faster than them both can track them both, it's not as unlikely as you think.




> When you state stuff like this:
> 
> 
> then it's pretty much implying which side you are taking.  Not only that but no one can really 'prove' anything in the battledome, it's all about which seems more plausible than not, and the person who wants X to be true can just say 'prove Y is true' and just reject any kind of 'evidence' as not conclusive by just setting the bar for what you consider 'proof' impossibly high when compared to the manga evidence you have to work with.
> If you were really neutral, you would ask for one side to 'prove' theirs is true, you'd ask for one side to show why theirs is more plausible than the other side.  By that method of evaluation, it's pretty clear that ino's shintenshin does not hit the brothers when they try to dodge.


That's desperate. 

So, by your logic, you never should have replied to me like this. No sense in arguing for a side, anyway. Just say who you think will win with no unrefutable evidence (they are high and top tiers, lolz) and leave. 

Saying that no one "proves" anything in the Battle Dome is an outright lie. I could give you dozens of examples of a fight in Naruto alone where a character is debated against and proven to not be able to win. You're just trying to argue semantics, pathetically at that, and use that as a whining excuse of me somehow taking sides, as if Itachi and Sasuke have been _hated_ on this whole thread.

If YOU were neutral, you'd consider both sides instead of assuming Ino has only Shintenshin and misinterpreted everything else about her, sharingan, and this thread's location and distance to favor Itachi and Sasuke. But I don't see your favoritism stopping anytime soon.


----------



## Bansai (Dec 13, 2013)

Ino's combat skills are crap. Her abilities might be useful, but with no great combat abilities behind that, they're worthless when she fights by herself.
She didn't become much of a better combatant during the timeskip.
She has no offensive Ninjutsu abilities at all. Taijutsu is all she has, and her Taijutsu is CRAP. In part one, her Taijutsu skills were at 1.5. And now, after all these years, it's still at 1.5. Not even her speed increased. Her combat abilities were simply bad from the very start and that didn't change. Ino is VERY useful but simply weak. She's close to being a non-combatant, that's how weak she is. As a support character, she is without a doubt more than just a great Kunoichi, but as a combatant she's worthless. Even Pre-skip Sasuke would have an easy time dealing with her in a combat. She stands no chance at all against both Itachi and Sasuke, even if you restrict each and every single one of their abilities.


----------



## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> You're talking about Shintenshin, which doesn't track. If the Uchiha brothers decided to use katons, as was said, they'd be still enough for them to be hit, though.
> 
> All but one of her filler possessions were used in the PTS, when her Shintenshin was much worse, so that doesn't really matter in this scenario, when she's much faster with them.
> 
> And, for the 10th time, two of her possessions do track. One of those tracking allows her to control both brothers at the same time. The other allows her to swap their minds. They have the same insane speed as current Shintenshin, too.


Based on what manga evidence would shintenshin be able to hit them if they used katons?  And none of the filler or canon jutsu track as they've all only been used on an opponent who is standing still or is lying defeated on the ground or unaware of her presence, they've never course corrected after the opponent dodged the initial trajectory. 
I'm also still waiting for your argument as to why her feat of being able to control 2 unconscious white zetsu bodies would translate to her being able to control conscious high/top tiers.




Risyth said:


> Again, you're only assuming she'll be using Shintenshin. And again, you should read the OP. I gave her filler feats.
> 
> Sharingan prediction is useless vs Shintenshin, even if it is slow. Shintenshin doesn't use chakra as the consciousness travels towards the target, so the sharingan can't see it. That's all there is to that.
> 
> I'm not saying she can hit 100% of the time, especially in such a dense area, but when you take into account that her jutsu that can move faster than them both can track them both, it's not as unlikely as you think.


Since when does shintenshin not use chakra?  And having a projectile that can move faster than your target means jack squat about you taggin them with it, as the distance the target has to move in order to dodge is far less than the distance the projectile has to move in order to 




Risyth said:


> That's desperate.
> 
> So, by your logic, you never should have replied to me like this. No sense in arguing for a side, anyway. Just say who you think will win with no unrefutable evidence (they are high and top tiers, lolz) and leave.


It's not desperate, this is how all debates in the battledome are conducted, the only people who don't agree with this are those who are oblivious to the unprovable assumptions that their own arguments cater to.  Do you think you can prove that KCM Naruto is slower than Konohomaru?



Risyth said:


> Saying that no one "proves" anything in the Battle Dome is an outright lie. I could give you dozens of examples of a fight in Naruto alone where a character is debated against and proven to not be able to win. You're just trying to argue semantics, pathetically at that, and use that as a whining excuse of me somehow taking sides, as if Itachi and Sasuke have been _hated_ on this whole thread.


Give me an example then.  
I'm not saying Itachi and Sasuke are being hated on and I'm not trying to give that impression which is why I don't go around and say "Itachi/Sasuke solos no diff" or ridicule your position that you've taken, rather without some kind of explanation as to why they do so.



Risyth said:


> If YOU were neutral, you'd consider both sides instead of assuming Ino has only Shintenshin and misinterpreted everything else about her, sharingan, and this thread's location and distance to favor Itachi and Sasuke. But I don't see your favoritism stopping anytime soon.


My posts have taken all of her abilities that she has in this thread into account.  Yours however have time and time again simply brought up points (that I have knocked down) that support ino, you don't actually go and refute the bulk of the arguments that I have for the uchiha brothers.


----------



## -JT- (Dec 13, 2013)

People are seriously debating this? 



















































































































































*Spoiler*: __ 



Shinten Bunshin solos


----------



## Seiji (Dec 13, 2013)

Either Itachi or Sauce makes Ino their bitch. Wtf is this?


----------



## Psp123789 (Dec 13, 2013)

Ino in combat by herself is useless. She has no taijutsu skills or ninjutsu worth mentioning and her mind transfer technique can be broken by any established character in the manga or simply avoided. Sasuke or Itachi solo with low diff. Ino needs other people in order to be useful. Without help she is borderline fodder lvl.


----------



## Bonly (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Why does everyone assume Ino will stand in one spot and do nothing?



Do I look like Oz? Do I look like I'm a mind reader? Did anyone say Ino will stand in one place and do nothing? Do you want us to state "and then Ino moves five feet. Next she'll move an entire meter and pull a a kunai! Ino lastly jumps up andf down and let the Uchiha bro's watch dem boobs with joy?"? Do I need to go into that much detail for you to get the idea that she's moving or can we use common sense and know that she'll be moving around?



> No, literally, because her attacks have her essence moving and they cannot be tracked by the sharingan.



And? Did I say it could be tracked by the Sharingan?


----------



## Nikushimi (Dec 13, 2013)

Itachi or Sasuke individually could rape Ino without effort. Fortunately for her, it's doubtful that either of them are going to have any interest in that whatsoever.


----------



## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Do I look like Oz? Do I look like I'm a mind reader? Did anyone say Ino will stand in one place and do nothing? Do you want us to state "and then Ino moves five feet. Next she'll move an entire meter and pull a a kunai! Ino lastly jumps up andf down and let the Uchiha bro's watch dem boobs with joy?"? Do I need to go into that much detail for you to get the idea that she's moving or can we use common sense and know that she'll be moving around?



"Do I look like Charlie Brown?"

Glad we established that. Now tell me how she's caught when speed is equalized and her attacks are faster.




> And? Did I say it could be tracked by the Sharingan?




Yeah, so they'll just ignore her attack and chase after her body. Nice.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 13, 2013)

4 pages for this?


----------



## Bonly (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> "Do I look like Charlie Brown?"
> 
> Glad we established that. Now tell me how she's caught when speed is equalized and her attacks are faster.



Does the same speed mean she can not get caught by Kirin?





> Yeah, so they'll just ignore her attack and chase after her body. Nice.



Again. And? Did I say it could be tracked by the Sharingan?


----------



## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Based on what manga evidence would shintenshin be able to hit them if they used katons?  And none of the filler or canon jutsu track as they've all only been used on an opponent who is standing still or is lying defeated on the ground or unaware of her presence, they've never course corrected after the opponent dodged the initial trajectory.
> I'm also still waiting for your argument as to why her feat of being able to control 2 unconscious white zetsu bodies would translate to her being able to control conscious high/top tiers


Vs Obito.

They're most likely going to be standing pretty still when using a katon. Doesn't that make them an easier target, as you said?

Yeah...look at the images again to see that those two track. I'm not going to explain again what's right there in the OP. You see multiple possessions with a curving Shintenshin effect. Don't even try to deny it. 

She also got Lee and Naruto and Misumi and Obito...Idiot Bros, etc. The question isn't how long she can hold off sick Itachi and Sasuke, since we know they're weaker than the Obito she had for about 2 seconds. Even 4 seconds is enough to kill one of them if they're possessed.





> Since when does shintenshin not use chakra?  And having a projectile that can move faster than your target means jack squat about you taggin them with it, as the distance the target has to move in order to dodge is far less than the distance the projectile has to move in order to


You don't get it. The consciousness travelling towards the opponent isn't guided by chakra, or at least it's not stated to be. 

Vs Obito, Chapter 611. Looks to be 100+ meters to me. Ino had just entered the fight and Obito was instantly hit by the non-tracking Shintenshin. We say "sniped" for a reason. 

At any rate, assuming they do get, say, 10m close with their inferior movement speed, then what? They will avoid Shinranshin just because? Let only Reverse and Clone?




> It's not desperate, this is how all debates in the battledome are conducted, the only people who don't agree with this are those who are oblivious to the unprovable assumptions that their own arguments cater to.  Do you think you can prove that KCM Naruto is slower than Konohomaru?


You know, generalizations and loaded questions are logical fallacies. Not that the analogy was anywhere near valid, considering I equalized speed here.




> Give me an example then.


Part 1 Lee vs LoW Haku



> I'm not saying Itachi and Sasuke are being hated on and I'm not trying to give that impression which is why I don't go around and say "Itachi/Sasuke solos no diff" or ridicule your position that you've taken, rather without some kind of explanation as to why they do so.


Of course they aren't being hated on. What would "possess" (I know) you to say that? I'm just saying in general how this fight is being taken. By mentioning something other than Shintenshin, I'm not referring to you.

My posts have taken all of her abilities that she has in this thread into account.  Yours however have time and time again simply brought up points (that I have knocked down) that support ino, you don't actually go and refute the bulk of the arguments that I have for the uchiha brothers.[/QUOTE]
Pft, yeah. Okay. I'll pretend you have a point just because. Well, we'd be getting somewhere, since this is the first time you really brought up any of her jutsu other than Shintenshin. 

Sorry for reminding you that she knew more than one technique. If you don't read the OP and don't know enough about a character, don't complain when I explain the character to you out of necessity.


----------



## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Does the same speed mean she can not get caught by Kirin?


Lol, let's ignore ALL prep. After all, it's the _Uchiha_ we're talking about here.






> Again. And? Did I say it could be tracked by the Sharingan?


I didn't even say you did in that last reply. Read what I write instead of this half-assed copy/paste trash.


----------



## Bonly (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Lol, let's ignore ALL prep. After all, it's the _Uchiha_ we're talking about here.



You asked how they would catch her if speed is equal did you not? If Sasuke uses Kirin then does that not mean he can catch her even with speed equal which is what you wanted after you said "Now tell me how she's caught when speed is equalized and her attacks are faster.", is it not?





> I didn't even say you did in that last reply. Read what I write instead of this half-assed copy/paste trash.



You failed to answer my question yet again.


----------



## ueharakk (Dec 13, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Vs Obito.
> 
> They're most likely going to be standing pretty still when using a katon. Doesn't that make them an easier target, as you said?


I did say it makes them an easier target, but that's not what you are asserting, you are asserting that ino would hit them with it.  Thus, back up that assertion with an argument which compares ino's feats to how fast they can fire off the katon.



Risyth said:


> Yeah...look at the images again to see that those two track. I'm not going to explain again what's right there in the OP. You see multiple possessions with a curving Shintenshin effect. Don't even try to deny it.


I just explained how none of the images in the OP show those jutsu tracking.  If you don't agree with that explanation, attack the argument, else it's a concession on your part as an ignored argument is a conceded one.



Risyth said:


> She also got Lee and Naruto and Misumi and Obito...Idiot Bros, etc. The question isn't how long she can hold off sick Itachi and Sasuke, since we know they're weaker than the Obito she had for about 2 seconds. Even 4 seconds is enough to kill one of them if they're possessed.


Were any of those people you've just listed trying to dodge shintenshin?  No, well, then getting them in that technique would not mean that she gets itachi and sasuke in that technique if they are going to try and dodge it.

Also, if ino kills one, she herself will die as well, and her feats with the other non-shintenshin jutsu don't refute that rule.





Risyth said:


> You don't get it. The consciousness travelling towards the opponent isn't guided by chakra, or at least it's not stated to be.


Why does it have to be stated to be guiding?  Is every part of every jutsu that's not stated to consist of chakra or have chakra components not made up of chakra?  Obviously not.



Risyth said:


> Vs Obito, Chapter 611. Looks to be 100+ meters to me. Ino had just entered the fight and Obito was instantly hit by the non-tracking Shintenshin. We say "sniped" for a reason.


It's much further than 100 meters, but that's irrelevant as Obito isn't moving, doesn't know ino is there, and has his focus on naruto's team.  not only that but she needed hinata to pull that jutsu off and we don't even know how long it took her shintenshin to traverse that distance since we aren't shown when she launched the tech.  So again, how does that feat correlate to her hitting itachi or sasuke who will try to dodge it?



Risyth said:


> At any rate, assuming they do get, say, 10m close with their inferior movement speed, then what? They will avoid Shinranshin just because? Let only Reverse and Clone?


They avoid it because she's never hit anyone at all who has tried to dodge or was even moving with it.  They avoid it because they have the sharingan and will know where she's going to fire the technique before she even does so.  They make her unable to use it by raining shuriken on her, katons while moving, crows, crow bunshins, exploding kage bunshins, chidori eiso, etc.




Risyth said:


> *You know, generalizations and loaded questions are logical fallacies.* Not that the analogy was anywhere near valid, considering I equalized speed here.


This is conclusive proof that you didn't even read what you just responded to, rather you just skimmed it over and went with whatever happened to registered in your mind, but even then I'll address your points.
The bolded is asserting that my post is making generalizations and loaded questions.  back up that assertion by showing why, else you've conceded that post as an assertion without an argument is baseless.  Next the point of KCM Naruto vs Konohomaru speed has nothing to do with proving a point about 'speed' it's proving a point about limits of knowledge, what is 'proof' and how to evaluate topics fairly.




Risyth said:


> Part 1 Lee vs LoW Haku


Would you care to show why that's an example of something you can prove?


----------



## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Bonly said:


> You asked how they would catch her if speed is equal did you not? If Sasuke uses Kirin then does that not mean he can catch her even with speed equal which is what you wanted after you said "Now tell me how she's caught when speed is equalized and her attacks are faster.", is it not?


What's your point? Why are you comparing Shintenshin to Kirin? 






> You failed to answer my question yet again.


You failed to comprehend my first reply, yet again. I'm not going to treat you like a little kid. You go back and read it.


----------



## Kickflip Uzumaki (Dec 13, 2013)

Either casually prisonrapes of godstomp proportions, especially Solo King Itachi Uchiha. Itachi makes some Shadow Clones and detonates them, or tosses a few Katon around the trees and turns the forest to ashes, or simply throws some kunai. How the Solo King is being so downgraded is blasphemy.

Ino's jutsu hasn't held anyone of note until Naruto gave her a KM shroud, like the time Obito broke it less than a second. Itachi's would break that in a blink; this is some serous fanfic to think Ino has any possibility beat an Uchiha.


----------



## Coppur (Dec 13, 2013)

Ino has had some impressive feats in the current arc, but nothing to suggest that she can defeat Itachi or Sasuke in a 1v1 battle in the slightest. And with both of them combined, you're looking at an utter stomp.

Also, obligatory Itachi solos.


----------



## Risyth (Dec 13, 2013)

Kickflip Uzumaki said:


> Either casually prisonrapes of godstomp proportions, especially Solo King Itachi Uchiha. Itachi makes some Shadow Clones and detonates them, or tosses a few Katon around the trees and turns the forest to ashes, or simply throws some kunai. How the Solo King is being so downgraded is blasphemy.
> 
> Ino's jutsu hasn't held anyone of note until Naruto gave her a KM shroud, like the time Obito broke it less than a second. Itachi's would break that in a blink; this is some serous fanfic to think Ino has any possibility beat an Uchiha.



I wouldn't compare Obito to Sasuke or sick Itachi.

But even if I did give her the shroud, she apparently would still lose, since no amount of buffs or nerfs can stop the wank from Uchiha fans the Uchiha brothers. The last sentence is just pointless, though. Who cares what fanfics have anything to do with it.


----------



## Sans (Dec 14, 2013)

Risyth said:
			
		

> Itachi vs Sasuke feat from that thread was summoned shuriken. So, yes, its restriction is VERY relevant. Otherwise, Itachi can only carry 8 at max and he still can't throw them faster than Ino could snipe either of them.
> 
> Throwing summed shuriken IS shurikenjutsu. You have NO CLUE what you're talking about, do you?



Itachi wasn't shown to be using fuinjutsu to supplement his shurikenjutsu, whereas Sasuke's was noted on several occasions. Sasuke very deliberately augmented his projectile use to match his brother's sheer hand-seal speed. 



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> Thank goodness I gave her two _homing_ jutsu that travel at the _same speed_, and jutsu that can hit Sasuke and Itachi _both at once,_ huh?



Other people have already covered this in far greater detail. Suffice to say, Ino has still struggled to hit anyone in the manga, and here she is facing opponents with greater intellect, precognition and more varied jutsu techniques than herself. The Uchiha brothers have the tools to evade, preempt or bunshin feint out of her Yamanaka abilities. 



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> Sasuke with bunshin feints? Lol. Sasuke is hit and if Itachi doesn't hold the fuck up to help him, he's screwed. IC Itachi wouldn't blindly try and attack Ino, neglecting Sasuke. And bunshin feints don't automatically equal a win. You act as if a shadow clone instantly puts Itachi behind a totally oblivious Ino. Again, you don't know at all what the fuck you're talking about. Itachi has to close that gap and he's, for all intents and purposes, slower than Ino now.



My post was concerning itself merely with Itachi, simply to demonstrate that merely one of the Uchiha is needed to defeat someone vastly weaker than themselves. 

I have never stated that a bunshinjutsu puts Itachi behind Ino, please do not put words into my mouth. I have not delved into hypothetical scenarios that could take place in the confrontation, just at how both sides strengths and weaknesses compare in a general sense.

Nevertheless, Itachi's bunshin feints have pressured people far more perceptive than Ino. Kurenai was unaware of the substitution or impending Bunshin Daibakuha. Sasuke did not perceive Itachi's Karasu Bunshin despite having a clear line of sight and the Sharingan to aid him. Also demonstrating the brothers ability to tactically apply pressure to single opponent, Kabuto's perfect Sage sensing was overcome by the speed and timing of Itachi's bunsin use. 



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> I never gave her preptime. What the hell? Go back and read the OP before you get too full of these weakass arguments. Giving Ino a forest means Itachi won't be able to hit her with shuriken, since she'll have cover that she already starts in. It makes her harder to see and gives her a better view since she's above and they're in the open. Sharingan =/= Byakugan. They cannot make her out clearly from 100 fucking meters in a crowded forest. That's more than a football field's length away. You're telling me if I dropped you in the Amazon and put a dummy 100 meters away in the thick of branches, you could clearly make it out? If so, you're deluding yourself with blind bias.



You gave Ino prep-time by virtue of placing her in a forest at 100m. Unless you think that she will just stand there while the Uchiha brothers move towards her? I'm going to assume she won't and will attempt to improve her positioning, possibly place traps with her shinobi equipment, etc. As I stated previously though, Itachi and Sasuke are free to do similar things while advancing to face her, and they have more equipment, more jutsu, bunshins to amplify their already superior numbers, and far superior intellect to apply that all with.

Once again, I did not state that Itachi and Sasuke could see Ino at 100m. However, Itachi and Sasuke have the Sharingan's perception to aid them and bunshins to help scout out Ino's location if needed.



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> Yes, barrage her through her cover with a grand total of *8* shuriken.
> 
> Oh, sorry, I forgot Sasuke can carry 8 too. 16 shuriken. That's SUCH a "threat". I swear, Ino would be climbing out of the tree, shaking and surrendering from that "threat" alone.



Significantly more, as covered previously. Shurikenjutsu alone would be a threat to Ino, especially as Itachi can curve his thrown projectiles, but it will play merely a part in the extensive arsenal range the Uchiha can use to pressure Ino successfully.



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> I don't care about what you do in the other threads. You're wanking Itachi and Sasuke to the MAX here, and you're ignoring every fucking thing I'm saying, acting as if you're right, when you're  obviously just in blind denial that your favorite pair can lose such a match.



Admittedly I do like Itachi, and everyone will always be subjective in any discussion, but I do try and take an impartial stance when debating in the Battle Dome. I find Sasuke to be one of the worst characters in the manga, so they are not my favourite pair in the slightest.

You are also facing opposition from far more than just Uchiha fans. People who agree with the consensus on their placement, people who rate them lower and people who are commonly held to "wank" them. 

Take a moment and think. If _everyone else_ has a very solid and different view on this match-up, then just _maybe_ the only person being unreasonable.... is you. Which seems more likely?



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> The ONLY reason I haven't posted again in that thread is  because I didn't want those stupid ass posts bumped again. You guys have the reading comprehension of middle school dropouts and my ad hominems are strong because you deserve them.



This is downright insulting and simply ridiculous. Much like deciding that I "fail forever" based on one altercation is absurd. I have talked to some of the people you are enjoying your little mud-slinging fit with, and none of them are high school dropouts. If you actually stopped to consider your words, you would realise that is a massive overstatement as well. On a personal level, you have no idea what my life is like or what I am doing. These blanket statements only make me view you as both foolish, and far too emotionally invested into an online debate over a manga.



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> There's no sense of arguing in public with total morons who can't even read a damn OP, thinking Ino only has one move, when I clearly gave her four OFFENSIVE moves. Assuming Ino's 5 feet in front of them in the Chuunin Exams arena, when I put her 109 yards away in a crowded forest. Thinking Ino would get speedblitzed when I equalized speed. Assuming 16 shuriken thrown from 100 meters away in the thick of the fucking forest would even hit Ino from behind her cover of trees. Thinking that in such limited space, destroying random trees with katons would hurt Ino who could EASILY avoid them at that distance and hit them. Assuming Ino would fall for Utakata (like Itachi would IC point at someone in branches 109 yards away and pray they fall into it) when it was used on Naruto, who had terrible chakra control and intelligence. Ino's a freaking _medical ninja._



Much of this has already been discussed in prior rebuttals or is not addressing me specifically. I would like to disagree with the notion that Ino's medical and sensor skills make genjutsu useless in this fight. 

Sasuke's genjutsu immobilised Shi, who possesses both traits. Itachi's genjutsu was so threatening that Kabuto specifically stated that he was fighting without eye-sight to avoid it. Itachi's genjutsu was apparently mass-controlling shinobi across the entire battlefield. Even if Ino is capable of breaking any illusion placed on her, she must realise what has happened and do so before either brother can exploit the opening. Kirabi with a warning and using his perfect Jinchuriki status was almost struck, making me doubt that Ino will far better, or even similarly.



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> But you did it anyway. You posted again, cocky as all hell too. Well, I'm just telling you _here: You're beyond ignorant. *"Beyond".*_
> 
> Now, if I said this in that thread, oh boo-hoo, I'm "siding"!



You are not the first person to call me cocky, and you will not be the last. However, I do have a fairly extensive knowledge of Naruto, even if you disagree with my interpretations. Your own conduct has hardly been spectacular, so attacking my personal flaws here is somewhat amusing.

And yes, you're siding with Ino. I am siding with Itachi, everyone else is siding with Itachi. In other threads Rocky will side with Minato against Itachi and Bonly will side with Naruto against Itachi. People do in fact take sides when debating a point.



			
				Risyth said:
			
		

> > _Yep, either of the Uchiha casually dispatch her like a bug. All you did was equalize speed. While Itachi and the Sauce are quick, that asset is hardly their most deadly. Sasuke is a Top-Tier, and Itachi is a High-Tier, and you've teamed them up and pitted them against Ino, who resides at the bottom of the barrel_
> 
> 
> 
> Gtfo.



I did not even create that post, so I have no idea why it was "rebutted" in a personal message to me.


----------



## Bonly (Dec 14, 2013)

Risyth said:


> *What's your point?* Why are you comparing Shintenshin to Kirin?




>Ask how does Ino get caught with speed equal
>Told Kirin can catch her even though speed is equal
>Thinks I'm comparing Shin to Kirin for some reason
>Doesn't get my point

Yeah were done here.






> You failed to comprehend my first reply, yet again. I'm not going to treat you like a little kid. You go back and read it.



Concession accepted.


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## Risyth (Dec 14, 2013)

"We're done here."

>Continues to post.


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## Ersa (Dec 14, 2013)

Either Sasuke or Itachi can take this without Sharingan and probably with one arm tied behind their back. You might as well make Konohamaru vs  Hashirama and Madara next.


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## wooly Eullerex (Dec 14, 2013)

Is Inos hair sprinkled throughout the forest floor or smthng?


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## Risyth (Dec 15, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Either Sasuke or Itachi can take this without Sharingan and probably with one arm tied behind their back. You might as well make Konohamaru vs  Hashirama and Madara next.



Not funny, but 1.5/10 for effort. I'm sure you were up all night with that one.


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## -JT- (Dec 15, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, Itachi and Sasuke destroy Ino, but I keep seeing the misconception (mostly from Uchihatards) that Shintenshin is 'crap'.

It used to be, but it no longer is. It has received tremendous speed feats (it reached Kinkaku in the process of him dealing a killing blow, it reached Asuma in the process of him dealing a killing blow, it reached Obito over a hella long distance in the process of the Juubi dealing a killing blow, etc.) and it's held down powerful opponents that eclipse Part 1 Sakura. Yes, Obito broke out in two seconds, but he had the Sharingan, the Rinnegan, AND was physically attached to the JUUBI at the time


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## Risyth (Dec 15, 2013)

Unless you want this debate to last until well into next year, I advise you to say nothing, Komnenos. There's a reason I haven't posted, and that's because a consensus has been reached. But that's been an exercise in restraint, because I'm actually far from done.


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## Kickflip Uzumaki (Dec 15, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Either Sasuke or Itachi can take this without Sharingan and probably with one arm tied behind their back. You might as well make Konohamaru vs  Hashirama and Madara next.




I disagree, Itachi can take it with both hands behind his back and a blindfold. Ino's jutsu isn't catching someone with the speed of Itachi unless she's got a shroud from Lord Naruto; then MAYBE.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Dec 15, 2013)

I can't say Ino even has a small chance at beating either of them alone.

I doubt mind transfer will work. We've seen people break out of it before, and I heavily doubt two of the strongest Uchiha we've seen cannot break out of it. Even if they can't, she still has to deal with the other brother and has to protect her original body.


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## Kickflip Uzumaki (Dec 15, 2013)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> I can't say Ino even has a small chance at beating either of them alone.
> 
> I doubt mind transfer will work. We've seen people break out of it before, and I heavily doubt two of the strongest Uchiha we've seen cannot break out of it. Even if they can't, she still has to deal with the other brother and has to protect her original body.




Couldn't even hold Part 1 Sakura with someone yelling from the sidelines. Couldn't even get it off against Hidan and Kakuzu. Obito snapped it in a blink until Naruto gave her chakra.

It held some Zetsu clones and Kinkaku, who has nothing but hype and tricking some Cloud fodder under his belt. No way that thing is holding a genius with a Will of Fire the status of Itachi Uchiha.


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## kaminogan (Dec 15, 2013)

you might as well give ino her poisonous flowers from the game,

in speed equl itachi could just dodge a long range shintenshin, and if ino goes for close range, well sasukes going to need his sword cleaned,

itachi and sasuke can also spam shuriken as well as katons which will be helpful in finding her hiding place,

then you have izanami and kirin which are OHKO's


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## Naiad (Dec 15, 2013)

Shintenshin would be the most stupid thing  she could use. One brother would simply destroy her lifeless body! Shintenbunshin would suitt for this situation,
but, she probaply wont even get the chance to get an successful hit on both Brothers. They rush into C&C with her and easily overhelm&kill her off...


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## Sans (Dec 15, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Unless you want this debate to last until well into next year, I advise you to say nothing, Komnenos. There's a reason I haven't posted, and that's because a consensus has been reached. But that's been an exercise in restraint, because I'm actually far from done.



I have zero interest in debating when my own stance has unanimous support, against someone who dives straight into toxic and personal insults in their arguments.


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## Risyth (Dec 15, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> I have zero interest in debating when my own stance has unanimous support, against someone who dives straight into toxic and personal insults in their arguments.



Well, it's not as if your "support" is high quality. But if all you got out of my points were that your feelings were being hurt...yeah...best not to post, anyway.


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## Psp123789 (Dec 15, 2013)

It's obvious that Ino gets her ass heavily raped by the uchiha brothers. Why this went to 5 pages I do not know.


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## Risyth (Dec 15, 2013)

Because of people like you?


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## Psp123789 (Dec 15, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Because of people like you?


I doubt that considering that the general agreement that Ino gets stomped was established pages ago and the only person who disagreed with it was you.


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## Risyth (Dec 15, 2013)

Except I stopped making points in the 4th page and you're the one who's bumping it to post more petty comments after having already left your petty comment back in page 3. 

Try again.


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## Psp123789 (Dec 16, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Except I stopped making points in the 4th page and you're the one who's bumping it to post more petty comments after having already left your petty comment back in page 3.
> 
> Try again.


The funny thing is that you say that you stopped making posts in the 4th page yet you just addressed mine when it wasn't even directed at you. Great job at keeping your words consistent with your actions. Also i'm still not the one who got it to 5 pages.


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## Risyth (Dec 16, 2013)

"Points"

Learn to read.


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## Psp123789 (Dec 16, 2013)

Risyth said:


> "Points"
> 
> Learn to read.


You're posting points. What can you call them after you've done that? Oh yeah posts or comments genius. 
 You're still making points anyway so it really doesn't matter.


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## Risyth (Dec 16, 2013)

Please tell me how anything I've posted in this page is similar to what I've posted in the others, where I was defending Ino in detail.


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## Psp123789 (Dec 16, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Please tell me how anything I've posted in this page is similar to what I've posted in the others, where I was defending Ino in detail.


Reread your post. You claimed that you were done making points. Period.


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## Risyth (Dec 16, 2013)

Ignorance incarnated.


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## The World (Dec 16, 2013)

Kyuubi Chakra Ino beats base restricted Sacue


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## Psp123789 (Dec 16, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Ignorance incarnated.



Not my fault you have no grasp of what you are saying. You failed to even tell me why people like me caused this thread to get to 5 pages. Probably because you know that it is because of you.Then you claim that i'm bumping up the thread with "petty" comments after you just responded with a "petty" comment. Your comments are pathetic attempts at trying to spite me yet you call mine petty.


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## kaminogan (Dec 16, 2013)

_itachi cant beat ino with his hands behind his back, else how is he supposed to do ninjutsu ?

now, itachi and sasuke with there hands behind there backs is a different story,_


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## Sans (Dec 16, 2013)

Risyth said:


> Well, it's not as if your "support" is high quality. But if all you got out of my points were that your feelings were being hurt...yeah...best not to post, anyway.



See, you did it again.

My feelings weren't hurt and you obviously had other points as well; I spent a reasonable amount of time responding to them.

However, you also insist on throwing out completely unneeded and rude insults at anyone who dares disagree with you. When your posts are filled with ridiculous insults that make you seem far too invested in a debate to conduct yourself like a reasonable human being.

That, that right there, is why I have no interest in discussing Naruto with you.


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## -JT- (Dec 16, 2013)

Kickflip Uzumaki said:


> Couldn't even hold Part 1 Sakura with someone yelling from the sidelines.


Correct. Ino's Shintenshin wasn't particularly powerful back then. But let's not forget that she had no chakra left and Sakura needed help from Naruto to escape.



> Couldn't even get it off against Hidan and Kakuzu.


She didn't even try. She suggested it, but Shikamaru wanted to fulfil his personal vendetta.



> Obito snapped it in a blink until Naruto gave her chakra.


In a battle, two seconds is a hell of a lot of time. Plus those two seconds were crucial in saving Naruto (and the entire Alliance in turn).
Obito also had the Sharingan and Rinnegan, and was physically connected to the most powerful being in the Narutoverse. How on earth is that a bad feat for Shintenshin?



> Kinkaku, who has nothing but hype and tricking some Cloud fodder under his belt.


He was still a Pseudo Six Tails at the time.
Ino's Shintenshin can hold down Bijuu level opponents, confirmed.


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## Risyth (Dec 16, 2013)

Komnenos said:


> See, you did it again.
> 
> My feelings weren't hurt and you obviously had other points as well; I spent a reasonable amount of time responding to them.
> 
> ...



...did you, like, post my PM in the thread? 

No, I've nothing but the utmost respect for you. Seriously. Sorry, I mistook you for a certain someone else because I never expected you to be brazen enough to put my PM that I said I didn't want in the thread...in the thread.




-JT- said:


> Correct. Ino's Shintenshin wasn't particularly powerful back then. But let's not forget that she had no chakra left and Sakura needed help from Naruto to escape.
> 
> 
> She didn't even try. She suggested it, but Shikamaru wanted to fulfil his personal vendetta.
> ...



And after you post, the arguments die out.


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## Sadgoob (Dec 17, 2013)

Speed's equalized. But then look at other elements, JT, Risynth.


Reflexes
Taijutsu 
Stealth 
Perception
Seals (jutsu speed)
Clones
Weapons
Experience

And so on. Sensors can be hidden from by lowering chakra, and equalizing speed doesn't equalize everything. In one on one scenarios, she'd still have the odds against her for that reason.

But let's say Ino lands that jutsu that lets her control people. She's still vulnerable while casting that to the other brother's attack, be it Sasuke using Amaterasu or Itachi curving kunai into her brain.​


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## Katou (Dec 17, 2013)

When did Ino became God Tier? 

or was she always had been?


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## Sans (Dec 17, 2013)

Fair enough Risyth, that was ill-considered on my part and I apologise.


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## -JT- (Dec 17, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> But let's say Ino lands that jutsu that lets her control people. She's still vulnerable while casting that to the other brother's attack, be it Sasuke using Amaterasu or Itachi curving kunai into her brain. [/indent]



Shinten Bunshin says hi


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## Risyth (Dec 17, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Speed's equalized. But then look at other elements, JT, Risynth.
> 
> 
> Reflexes
> ...



Equalizing speed covers all types of speed, movement and combat. Thus, it covers reflexes too. Not including sharingan, but sharingan cannot detect Shintenshin or its variants.

Taijutsu assumes they can get close to her. Ino has a better starting location and view, and has concealment. Ino's seals are faster. Itachi's clones are the only constant threat that I see, and the real Itachi would still have to attack sometime. If he goes in midrange, at which point he will be noticed, he will be made an easy target for Ino's jutsu.

Weapons are, imo, useless besides Ino using them after her jutsu land. Unless Itachi has homing kunai, I severely doubt he's going to be able to weave them in out out of trees, a hundred meters, to the top of a canopy and behind a trunk. Other than that, what good are their weapons?

Experience counts, sure, but that only really goes for Itachi. You need to tell me exactly how experience will aid him in the fight.


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## Lord Aizen (Dec 17, 2013)

Can someone explain how ino is being compared to two top tiers


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