# Lelouch vi Britannia vs Light Yagami vs Johan Liebert



## BigIsaac (Aug 10, 2014)

Those 3 engage in a battle of wits. Who wins?

- No Geass or Death Note allowed
- All 3 are in-character


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## MusubiKazesaru (Aug 10, 2014)

Johan convinces them both to kill themselves


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## Expelsword (Aug 10, 2014)

I've never watched Monster, but I don't think it would be so easy to do.

Light and Lelouch are wholly devoted to their ideals, and Lelouch

*Spoiler*: __ 



Was planning to die strategically from the beginning.


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## Ramius (Aug 10, 2014)

Without any supernatural shit, I don't know what 2 pretty stupid teenagers could do to a real criminal who maneuvered operations through an entire country and controlled many people without using any sort of supernatural power in first place. Thankfully, the better character of the 3 also would win.

@Expel
what does their devotion have to do with their wit? Johan is simply smarter, subtler and a more knowledgeable and  fearsome person. 

It's just a bad mismatch. Two of them are teenagers, used just a convenient superpower the entire show and pretty naive. Try some other more fitting opponents.

Johan won't convince them to kill themselves though.


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## BigIsaac (Aug 10, 2014)

Ramius said:


> Without any supernatural shit, I don't know what 2 pretty stupid teenagers could do to a real criminal who maneuvered operations through an entire country and controlled many people without using any sort of supernatural power in first place. Thankfully, the better character of the 3 also would win.
> 
> @Expel
> what does their devotion have to do with their wit? Johan is simply smarter, subtler and a more knowledgeable and  fearsome person.
> ...




"pretty stupid"? What?

Oh and Johan could only convince those people to kill themselves because he had extensive knowledge of them, and because both of them already had ample issues ("How about a drink?")


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## Expelsword (Aug 10, 2014)

I don't know what shows you were watching, but Light was running circles around the police force, not the least of which was the memory gambit and Lelouch was able to predict someone's words so well that he could pre-record his half of the conversation


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## Ramius (Aug 10, 2014)

I don't think you'll understand even if I explain it to you. Just to keep long story short, they are pretty stupid overall compared to multiple other characters.

@Expel
Which only proves how badly written their shows were and how incompetent the police was. And Lelouch? Please, it's the guy who made thousands of people put Zero masks on thinking it was a brilliant idea and SOMEHOW it worked. Geass has so much bullshit writing in it, it would take an entire day to go through everything what's wrong with it.

Pfff, not even mentioning that whole thing with Euphemia


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## BigIsaac (Aug 10, 2014)

I see, so Johan wins because you don't like Lelouch's and Light's shows?
Goodness, what a well-founded, completely unbiased argument


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## Regicide (Aug 10, 2014)

Gee, what an original thread.

This has surely never been done before.


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## Ramius (Aug 10, 2014)

I explained it previously why he wins though, you should read my posts and not just skim through. Johan managed to subjugate the police of an entire country and pretty much managed to control all the operations through the entire Germany without using any superpowers. He also didn't make retarded mistakes like Lelouch (I'd honestly name some example from Death Note, if I didn't watch it like 6 years ago, I can remember the whole thing with the original policeman who was following him, got killed afterwards and then his wife/girlfriend got killed too after following Light closely, that should have tipped everyone off right away)

I don't know how that's not proof enough. Johan isn't as flashy as the other two? Not as action-y? What's your argument as to why he's ~on the same level as Lelouch/Light? Now that would make an interesting argument.


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## BigIsaac (Aug 10, 2014)

Johan was active for a LOT longer than Lelouch and Light, though. It's not fair to compare the half decade Johan had to the stuff Lelouch did in less than 1 year, or Light did in, what, 2 years?

Lelouch's biggest achievement in terms of wit is predicting Schneizel to the point of preparing a pre-recorded conversation with him, without Schneizel noticing a thing.


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## Iwandesu (Aug 10, 2014)

BigIsaac said:


> Johan was active for a LOT longer than Lelouch and Light, though. It's not fair to compare the half decade Johan had to the stuff Lelouch did in less than 1 year, or Light did in, what, 2 years?
> 
> Lelouch's biggest achievement in terms of wit is predicting Schneizel to the point of preparing a pre-recorded conversation with him, without Schneizel noticing a thing.


Johan was active longer because he could.
Both light and lelouch wouldn't manage a single year w/out their powers and only managed due to pis.(hell,penbar and naomi are perfect examples)


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## Galo de Lion (Aug 10, 2014)

The one written by Sir Naoki Urasawa stomps the two kids.


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## BigIsaac (Aug 11, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Johan was active longer because he could.
> Both light and lelouch wouldn't manage a single year w/out their powers and only managed due to pis.(hell,penbar and naomi are perfect examples)




Light was defeated, yes, but Lelouch flat out won. He didn't need to be active any longer than that


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## Deputy Myself (Aug 11, 2014)

> - No Geass or Death Note allowed


Oh that makes it frighteningly easy
Johan wins


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## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 11, 2014)

Johan wins.
He is simply smarter and a master at mind games.
Light is basically crazy with a god complex. without any powers, he gets murked easily.

Lelouch is ...
While you could argue for Light, Lelouch is heavily dependent on his plot power.
Most of his intelligence feats are worthless in a realistic scenario.
And before you argue otherwise, I'm just going to reference the winning in chess with just a king thing.
That show was never meant to be taken seriously.
Because if that was the intent, it was an even worse, than I originally thought.


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## Ramius (Aug 11, 2014)

BigIsaac said:


> Johan was active for a LOT longer than Lelouch and Light, though. It's not fair to compare the half decade Johan had to the stuff Lelouch did in less than 1 year, or Light did in, what, 2 years?
> 
> Lelouch's biggest achievement in terms of wit is predicting Schneizel to the point of preparing a pre-recorded conversation with him, without Schneizel noticing a thing.



Being active for longer is nothing but a plus here. It means he managed not to get caught for a long fucking period and it would have been the same if not for Tenma. Besides, Johan is the same dude who already opened a money laundering business at the age of fucking 15 and made himself a name in the underground. 

And no, Lelouch is dumb in comparison. Johan could convince people to kill themselves just by talking to them for a while.

I don't remember too much about Light, but I'm pretty sure he's a lucky scrub from what I can recall. His only witty moment was the one when he was detained, when he gets rid of the notebook and erases it from his memory. Other than that, he's just fairly above average.


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## Lucaniel (Aug 11, 2014)

johan wins


however i disavow all of ramius's posts because they're so bad they're giving me a headache


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Aug 11, 2014)

_Don't know enough about Johan to say either way, but..._



ClandestineSchemer said:


> Most of his intelligence feats are worthless in a realistic scenario.
> And before you argue otherwise, I'm just going to reference the winning in chess with just a king thing.



_That never happened. Lelouch's style was to use the king piece a lot more than what was considered normal, but it was never the piece he solely used. 

If you're talking about the time he and Schneizel checkmated each other; yeah, that was completely nonsensical in terms of chess, but maybe the Geassverse has some weird, alternate chess rules or something.

What other specific intelligence feats are being derided as worthless here? _


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## Expelsword (Aug 11, 2014)

How many people does Johan kill? What goals does he have? How strongly are the police sure he is the culprit/looking for him?

Because keep in mind Light was continuously active killing tons of people. In the two years he was around.
Again, not seen it, but I doubt he's made himself THAT noticable.



Doctor Lamperouge said:


> If you're talking about the time he and Schneizel checkmated each other; yeah, that was completely nonsensical in terms of chess, but maybe the Geassverse has some weird, alternate chess rules or something.


That game was really a metaphor.


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## BigIsaac (Aug 11, 2014)

Schneizel calling checkmate with his king was not an actual move. He did this specifically to provoke a reaction out of Lelouch and learn what kind of person he is.

Johan is basically the anti christ. His body count is most likely much lower than that of the other two, and his goals were never completely explained. 
For the most part, the main character and Johan's sister are the only 2 people on the side of the "good guys" who know that Johan exists. He always tries to leave as few traces of himself as possible, which usually includes eventually killing whoever he is working with. So, the police is in no way looking for him.

If you want an example of how he ticks, I think this one is a good example:


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## ClandestineSchemer (Aug 11, 2014)

Doctor Lamperouge said:


> _If you're talking about the time he and Schneizel checkmated each other; yeah, that was completely nonsensical in terms of chess, but maybe the Geassverse has some weird, alternate chess rules or something._



Thats the one.



Doctor Lamperouge said:


> _
> What other specific intelligence feats are being derided as worthless here? _



The I am zero migration plan for one.
Then there are the ones relying on 100% accurately predicted taped conversations.


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## BigIsaac (Aug 11, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> The I am zero migration plan for one.
> Then there are the ones relying on 100% accurately predicted taped conversations.




Johan being smart enough to talk a guy into committing suicide is fine and dandy, but Lelouch being smart enough to predict a person's thought process and philosophy is a no-no?


Edit: Heh, fancy that. No less than 8 of the 9 rep down-votes I have received since joining this site came from the same exact person.
Is that a petty little vendetta I'm smelling? I think it is.


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## Expelsword (Aug 11, 2014)

I will point out, for fun's sake, that  Lelouch and Light also both talked people into suicide


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## BigIsaac (Aug 11, 2014)

Expelsword said:


> I will point out, for fun's sake, that  Lelouch and Light also both talked people into suicide




Well, Lelouch looked them into suicide, while Light wrote them into it.


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## Extravlad (Aug 11, 2014)

Johan is in a league of his own.
They really can't compete with him at all.


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## Iwandesu (Aug 11, 2014)

BigIsaac said:


> Edit: Heh, fancy that. No less than 8 of the 9 rep down-votes I have received since joining this site came from the same exact person.
> Is that a petty little vendetta I'm smelling? I think it is.


Happens a damn lot , believe me


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## Lucaniel (Aug 11, 2014)

Expelsword said:


> Because keep in mind Light was continuously active killing tons of people. In the two years he was around..



because he had a book that could kill people by writing their names in it


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Aug 11, 2014)

ClandestineSchemer said:


> Thats the one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_I see the million  zeroes plan as him gambling on his best friend's sense of morality and honor. He knew Suzaku wouldn't allow another massacre, and he was right. I personally don't think he would've gone with that plan if Suzaku hadn't been running the show. 

The 100% accurate recording is a stretch, I admit, but then again it was of someone he knew intimately. But for that reason I prefer the recorded message he used against Mao. IT had him taking long, unnecessary pauses and interrupting Mao while he was talking, and when he did talk it didn't seem like he was responding to anyone, all hints that it was a recorded message. And it was used against someone he just met recently, while being good enough to get that person riled enough to chainsaw the video screen he was speaking though. Albeit, Mao was easily riled when it came to CC. _


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