# Can we talk about  the Admirals vs The Yonkos? (Discussion)



## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

"the yonko are more powerful than ('equal to' if it's big mom. no matter what her feats. *i kid.*) the Admirals."  I do not agree with this. in my opinion the admirals have already displayed that they are more powerful than any of the four yonko on their own. how can i justify this? lets look at the most powerful emperor, white-beard at marine ford. until ace died and white-beard blindsided akainu, he did little to no significant damage to any of the admirals, directly in battle. jozu bloodied aokijis lip. yes, he blindsided him. when aokiji blindsided him, he took jozus arm. marco "delayed" kizaru dispatched marco but marco is a phoenix, but... kizaru went on to TOY WITH WB until he went after the magma man, and even after his rage attack... akainu emerged if good enough condition to body everything in his way. yes shanks showed up but stopped nothing, those few second shanks got spared luffy but did not stop the attack sengoku did, the admirals went right back too it after shanks prattle.

The admirals are extremely LIMITED when fighting on marine ford, just look at what sengoku garp and shiki did they destroyed half marineford . thats just 3 people 2 marines that are SUPPRESSED as they have to protect the island, like garp literally cant miss a punch when you think about the fact one punch obliterated a ice continent busting don chingao with 1 punch. with seemingly minimum effort. look at what a full battle between two of the admirals did to the landscape...  it was 11 days long.... hey whitebeard cant battle for 11 days. kaido was struggling against the roof top 5  just yesterday and a suppressed weakened akainu murked the whitebeard commanders casually. and please understand that if luffy didnt show up whitbeard and his entire squad would have been kiilled in the encircling walls.


i think we underestimate the admirals because of familiarity and forget things that matter. main reason i believe the notion is able to take hold. yet even though up to this point not one attack displayed would even hit and admiral that weve seen *Unless blind sided* i can prove it, wb did not hit kuzan, and he didnt hot or damage akainu until he ambushed him and akainu was way less worse for ware than wb was, way worse for ware after his fight with the ice man. IJS after mf aokiji and akainu chased pirates... wb died. none of big moms attacks displayed would hit fuji. he can divert the lightning because he can control gravity's axis. that includes things like kaidos boro  breath, wind blades,  big moms fires. the impact of her ikokou sovereignty. no he was not serious in dressrosa he chose to be a neutral party.

Nothing the yonko have shown attack wise would do anything in a one on one against the admirals. kaidos speed is nothing to fuji because he can slow him, hitting kizaru... he can barley hit law. making contact with magma man or ice guy is not in your best interest or the interest of your limbs.  if any of the one admirals were on the roof right now just with what we seen  and logicly if kaido was aganist magma man, hed likely get burned, if he was injured by sound i bet he can be injured by light ...  if a body slam can effect him i bet frost bite could too...


we downplay the admirals. though their way more active in battle being marine than the yonko are at being pirates. think about it if youre a yonko you dont even see or meet other pirates your level for years, proven by the fact that its news every-time it happens. its decades, bm and kaido confirmed that. even them them selves the yonko dont make big moves often. whitebeard was all but retired he only leapt into action because ace was captured/ even then he was only sport for the suppressed admirals.  you look no further than koby and the progress he made after training with garp. from chapter 1 to the end of water 7. koby skyrocketed and even displayed a mastery of future sight. Garp is confirmed to be user of advanced armament haki imo seeing as he has always been able to damage luffy. even though hes rubber with no obvious use of haki. the marines fight all the time. the admirals are out of shape and in my opinion no attack they have shown so far has shown me that they could beat or even critically injure the admirals in a honest one on one fight,


at the very least i think we should give the scaling ore credit. if not let me know why i hope you are well


best

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 7 | Tier Specialist 1 | Dislike 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

excited to hear your opinions


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## Mihawk (Feb 4, 2021)

I don't think the Admirals are stronger, mainly because of what Whitebeard demonstrated; then there's Kaido's title, and Shanks/Blackbeard still likely being forces of nature in their own right, without having actually done much. In a lot of ways, I think less is more sometimes, and the hype the Yonko generate despite sitting on their ass most the time is impressive. That doesn't mean every Yonko is stronger than an Admiral on average. Teach likely wasn't stronger than the original trio when he first became yonko, and Akainu is stronger than every Admiral. 

Still, the Admirals have been getting heavily disrespected in recent times. People really think Luffy can actually beat one all by himself right now, and that's just a fucking joke.

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## muchentuchen (Feb 4, 2021)

There are only 3 active Admirals but there are 4 active Yonkous. 3 = 4 therefore 3 > 4.

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## Nikseng (Feb 4, 2021)

Yonkos are obvioulsy stronger for any objective reader at this point. There isn't much to discuss.

Reactions: Agree 7 | Optimistic 2


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## xenos5 (Feb 4, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> There are only 3 active Admirals but there are 4 active Yonkous. 3 = 4 therefore 3 > 4.


Are you not counting the current Fleet Admiral or just not counting Greenbull as "active" for some reason? Cause even with Aokiji gone there's still four at the moment. And I wouldn't doubt that even with Akainu's new leadership position he would still go back into the fray if need be. 

And why would the Shichubukai even be proclaimed to be part of the balance of power at one point if they were completely unnecessary for the marines the whole time? They're only being dumped now because the Marine's got its hands on weapons to make up for their loss.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Canute87 (Feb 4, 2021)

You can thank  the Gorosei for that.

After Akainu took over and disbanded the shichibukai Kaido ran to form an alliance with Big Mom.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> There are only 3 active Admirals but there are 4 active Yonkous. 3 = 4 therefore 3 > 4.


The entire marines + Schichibukai = Yonkou

So 3 admirals + Mihawk + FA = Yonko.

If a sick WB who could barely use haki anymore and was having heart attacks mid fight was matched by a prime Akainu, how do you think a not sick WB who could use haki perfectly would not be quite stronger?

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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

So many words, so little sense...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Delta Shell (Feb 4, 2021)

Jeez that really is a great big wall of text buddy.

Um, I think the Yonkou are slightly stronger and probably a fair bit stronger than Fujitora.


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## Grinningfox (Feb 4, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> I don't think the Admirals are stronger, mainly because of what Whitebeard demonstrated; then there's Kaido's title, and Shanks/Blackbeard still likely being forces of nature in their own right, without having actually done much. In a lot of ways, I think less is more sometimes, and the hype the Yonko generate despite sitting on their ass most the time is impressive. That doesn't mean every Yonko is stronger than an Admiral on average. Teach likely wasn't stronger than the original trio when he first became yonko, and Akainu is stronger than every Admiral.
> 
> Still, the Admirals have been getting heavily disrespected in recent times. People really think Luffy can actually beat one all by himself right now, and that's just a fucking joke.


Why wouldn’t teach be stronger ?

He has the Yami to negate thier fruits and the gura to overpower them


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Yonkos are obvioulsy stronger for any objective reader at this point. There isn't much to discuss.


how? i want to see the proof


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## Rcranium (Feb 4, 2021)

I think the admirals are equal to the yonko. Maybe Fuji isn't but as a group they are. Black Beard is the wildcard.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> how? i want to see the proof


The strongest admiral was equally matching sick WB who was unable to use haki in good conditions and was having heart attacks.

Sick WB was the weakest yonko.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Feb 4, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Why wouldn’t teach be stronger ?
> 
> He has the Yami to negate thier fruits and the gura to overpower them


​It's possible he could've been stronger, I'm just leaning to the MF Admirals over a freshly minted Yonko.

They've likely had decades to master their devil fruits compared to Teach. I'm also not convinced he could just no-sell the Admirals with Yami hax like that. When WB was on his last legs, he was still able to inflict a heavy blow on Teach despite having his gura negated. Teach also wouldn't be able to pull them in like he did with Ace, without consequences. Having the gura in this situation helps amplify the yami's gravitational pull, and it forms a powerful combination; but It wouldn't make sense if he was able to overpower them after having it for 2 years, when we saw them holding their own against Whitebeard, who has had a very long time to master his control over it. I do think Teach will surpass most of them at some point, if not Akainu.

There's also a bit of hype with Teach choosing to avoid facing Akainu with his whole crew before the timeskip. Of course, he could've been trying to avoid losing his crew members after working so hard to acquire them, but it's also telling that he doesn't think taking on Akainu would be worth all  the trouble. The same likely applies to Aokiji and Kizaru, his near equals.


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## muchentuchen (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The entire marines + Schichibukai = Yonkou
> 
> So 3 admirals + Mihawk + FA = Yonko.
> 
> If a sick WB who could barely use haki anymore and was having heart attacks mid fight was matched by a prime Akainu, how do you think a not sick WB who could use haki perfectly would not be quite stronger?


Turns out the shichis were a joke and it's really only Mihawk with a pinch of Doffy.

All 3 admirals were toying with WB individually and not a single pirate posed a threat to them.

The other yankees don't have the gura fruit to tip the island with an earthquake and the marines still had manpower hidden and revealed them when Shanks appeared. You forget that BB was there too and contributed more to the damage of the island.

It was a one sided beatdown and a crushing defeat for the wb pirates & affiliates.

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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> All 3 admirals were toying with WB individually and not a single pirate posed a threat to them.


Akainu in fetal position helpless screaming WB's name and falling down the gutter sure looked like him toying with WB, you're right

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## YonkoDrippy (Feb 4, 2021)

Yonko’s are stronger than admirals. The Marines shit their pants at the thought of 2 Yonko crews joining forces. And they were at their limit during the Marineford war against 2 Yonko. when shanks Crew arrived, is when the marines decided to stop fighting.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## muchentuchen (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Akainu in fetal position helpless screaming WB's name and falling down the gutter sure looked like him toying with WB, you're right


He was busy with Marco and WB caught him from the back, what happened then? POW half whitebeards head blown off then Akainu comes back to fight all the commanders combined and still had enough to fight  with Shanks if necessary. The admirals played whack a mole with all the pirates, that's how the boys spend their weekend having fun.

Now Oda made a meme out of the WB wankers by reviving him as captain frankesteinbeard and overhyping him by having marines call him "aS sTRoNg As PriME wHiteBeArD". 

Not even close homie.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> He was busy with Marco


  

Imagine trying to argue that Akainu is stronger than Yonkous and starting the post with this sentence

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## muchentuchen (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Imagine trying to argue that Akainu is stronger than Yonkous and starting the post with this sentence


I'm busy with you right now, am I struggling? No. Akainu was busy debating Marco about who's stronger between WB and Akainu, WB got mad and started a fight so Akainu blew his head off, see?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> I'm busy with you right now, am I struggling? No. Akainu was busy debating Marco about who's stronger between WB and Akainu, WB got mad and started a fight so *Akainu blew his head off, see*?


and then proceeded towards an adventure into the abyss.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The strongest admiral was equally matching sick WB who was unable to use haki in good conditions and was having heart attacks.
> 
> Sick WB was the weakest yonko.


akainu was not going all out or even close fam, his whole job was to protect the island of marine ford. so akainu was not going all out at any point in marineford. him matching/ overpowering whitebeard who was basically rampaging. thats a bigger W for akainu.


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## chinesesoccerplayer (Feb 4, 2021)

Leans back and gets out the popcorn.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

to say any of the marines top tiers were going all out in mf is crazy. when we can literally look at punk hazard.

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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> to say any of the marines top tiers were going all out in mf is crazy. when we can literally look at punk hazard.


Yes, it took 10 days for them to affect an island. Kaido lifted one in seconds and can drop it at any time.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

"they shit their pants" yes because the gura gura  fruit is destructive. the marines have to protect their hq and that fruit is likely the biggest threat when used  the island. white beard legend preceded him too. though when he got there he wasnt the man he used to be.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, it took 10 days for them to affect an island. Kaido lifted one in seconds and can drop it at any time.


i was hoping someone would bring that up.if kaido is going against fujitora fuji can counter that and get on with the fight or he can lift the island higher and go on with the fight and dispatch of kaido  or at the very least subdue him. my point being him lifting the island means nothing against these opponents in a one on one fight. if hes facing kizaru and raises an island whats that going to do? same for akainu? aokiji


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## VileNotice (Feb 4, 2021)

Current Sakazuki is the only “Yonko level” admiral I suspect. The rest lose high diff to a Yonko assuming neutral matchup.

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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> i was hoping someone would bring that up.if kaido is going against fujitora fuji can counter that and get on with the fight or he can lift the island higher and go on with the fight and dispatch of kaido  or at the very least subdue him. my point being him lifting the island means nothing against these opponents in a one on one fight. if hes facing kizaru and raises an island whats that going to do? same for akainu? aokiji


Fujitora was huffing against bandaged G3 Luffy, not a good playa to brag about.

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## nmwn93 (Feb 4, 2021)

VileNotice said:


> Current Sakazuki is the only “Yonko level” admiral I suspect. The rest lose high diff to a Yonko assuming neutral matchup.


yonko level in and of it self is a fan made term. omg

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zero (Feb 4, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Why wouldn’t teach be stronger ?
> 
> He has the Yami to negate thier fruits and the gura to overpower them


There was an instance post-marineford war where Blackbeard ran away when he heard Akainu arrived and stated that he wasn't ready for stuff like this. Implying that he's not ready to fight an Admiral or in other words hasn't gotten a grasp on his abilities yet to fight such a strong opponent. So Blackbeard is weaker than the Admirals atleast for now....


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 4, 2021)

While I agree that the Admirals were holding back on Marineford, I do not agree that you can infer from Whitebeard vs suppressed Akainu that the Admirals are stronger than the Yonkou. We know that Whitebeard was in a terrible shape, partly due to Squardo stabbing him, but mostly due to his age and illness. This means he was not like the other Yonkou, and therefore that Admirals' performances against him aren't necessarily representative of their performances  against other Yonkou.

(Also a tip of the hat to the people who after roughly a decade have still failed to realize that Whitebeard recklessly blindsiding Akainu while he was preoccupied with Marco isn't indicative of how any Yonkou would perform against an Admiral in a normal situation).

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## Shunsuiju (Feb 4, 2021)

It's hard to respond to such a chaotic mess.

"Kaido struggled with the Rooftop 5, Akainu murked these guys"

If you were so justified in your opinion you wouldn't use so much hyperbole to prove a point.

And I think this is pretty much consistent in your entire post.

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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> akainu was not going all out or even close fam, his whole job was to protect the island of marine ford. so akainu was not going all out at any point in marineford. him matching/ overpowering whitebeard who was basically rampaging. thats a bigger W for akainu.


Let me get this straight, Akainu was holding back, but WB, the guy who could've literally sank the entire island wasn't? lool
Akainu was serious and going for the kill constantly.

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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

Is this the new trend ? The admirals were holding back ?


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Let me get this straight, Akainu was holding back, but WB, the guy who could've literally sank the entire island wasn't? lool
> Akainu was serious and going for the kill constantly.



There was a difference between their attitudes. Akainu was complaining about Whitebeard destroying the island, and Whitebeard told him to stop him, iirc. That implies that Akainu was mitigating as much of the damage as he could.

Whitebeard also used three enormous attacks on other occasions (tsunamis, tipping over the island, the hit that split the island in half), so I don't think he was holding back in that sense.

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## Strobacaxi (Feb 4, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Is this the new trend ? The admirals were holding back ?


Of course! Doesn't this look like a man who is holding back?

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## Duhul10 (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Of course! Doesn't this look like a man who is holding back?


holding back his inner demons...

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## TheWiggian (Feb 4, 2021)

They're equal or slightly stronger due to powercreep, discussing beyond that is pointless.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 4, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Of course! Doesn't this look like a man who is holding back?


Looks like a man who just got an ass whooping by Whitebeard and was using his remaining energy to kill as many people as possible and got one fodder.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 4, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> They're equal or slightly stronger due to powercreep, discussing beyond that is pointless.


Powercreep? I doubt someone like Fujitora is going to look better than Shanks, Mihawk or Kaido.

Akainu, maybe. But he's his own animal.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## VileNotice (Feb 4, 2021)

As far as I can tell Oda has avoided power creep in the top tier pretty well. So there's no reason to assume the Yonko will end up weaker than an average admiral simply due to plot progression unless Kaido and Big Mom both go down fair and square in this arc. Which has less than like a 10% chance of happening imo. Way more likely BM is in Wano as a plot device to make Kaido beatable.

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## charles101 (Feb 4, 2021)

Is there really space for discussion when you're putting a statement as a fact in the tittle?


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## GucciBandana (Feb 4, 2021)

Oh boy, this day's gotta come eventually, somebody has to say it.

Not sure about Admirals stronger than Yonkous, but clearly the fantasy land some fans been living in got destroyed hard.
It is pretty obvious now how impressive Akainu's feats were back in MF, man got rushed by Marco + Vista, shrugged it off with a mean mug, while Kaido is getting knocked all over the place screaming, when attacked by any of the rooftop 5, and sweating buckets over Zoro's missed attack, I mean even Law's counter shock gets BM screaming, something Vergo tanked.

Also stopping a top tier named attack is not a big deal, you can do that while being much weaker than the top tier, like Zoro showcased multiple times in the fight. Negating an Admiral's attack, or having short exchanges back n forth doesn't mean much, it's just a feat, nothing more, or else, Kizaru would be much stronger than WB based off that.

Lastly, about time for people to realize one reference point comparison don't work no more, or else using Zoro as reference point, Fuji would get placed higher than Kaido, which obviously shouldn't be the case.

Old WB(no heart attack) does seem like the strongest Yonkou, like he's portrayed to be, multiple times.




Strobacaxi said:


> The entire marines + Schichibukai = Yonkou
> 
> So 3 admirals + Mihawk + FA = Yonko.
> 
> If a sick WB who could barely use haki anymore and was having heart attacks mid fight was matched by a prime Akainu, how do you think a not sick WB who could use haki perfectly would not be quite stronger?



Where did you get the equation from?
Marine HQ, Yonkous, and Warlords are considered the 3 great power that balances themselves out, from that we can only tell that:
Marines + Warlords > Yonkous
Warlords + Yonkous > Marines
Marines + Yonkous > Warlords
They are 3 different sides, and each one of their existence has some type of pull towards the other 2.

WB was matched by prime Akainu when he's not having heart attacks, when he gets a heart attack, he got a hole in his chest.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 4, 2021)

One piece story: haven't seen an Admiral for hundreds of chapters
One Piece fans: it is now obvious that the Admirals are superior/equal to Yonko

Loser = Having an opinion that doesnt change every few chapters


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## Klarionan (Feb 4, 2021)

So the whole portrayal of Whitebeard, all scenes that told us that Yonkos working together would be a disaster, and the whole power balance concept were all just fakes, how makes that any logical sense to you?

Reactions: Like 4


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 5, 2021)

GucciBandana said:


> Where did you get the equation from?


The fact that the WG forced them to go to WG under threat to join forces with the marines to fight a single yonkou crew?

The Shichibukai and Marines are allies lol why the fuck would they balance each other out?



GucciBandana said:


> WB was matched by prime Akainu when he's not having heart attacks, when he gets a heart attack, he got a hole in his chest.


lol WB after getting a heart attack was still matching prime Akainu. And this is an old and sick WB who could barely use haki anymore. That's the yonkou Akainu was matching. A dying old sick man who could barely use haki and still had to constantly hold back because his fruit could sink the island his allies were standing on.

Thinking he could actually match a healthy WB  is just wishful thinking

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## nmwn93 (Feb 5, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Fujitora was huffing against bandaged G3 Luffy, not a good playa to brag about.


i went back and rewatched that and couldnt tell if he was breathing because he was tired out by luffy which i doubt he was... considering i bet it takes  more gravity topull down a meteor than what he used aganist luffy. but i thought he was huffing to emphasize his screaming at luffy


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## nmwn93 (Feb 5, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> So the whole portrayal of Whitebeard, all scenes that told us that Yonkos working together would be a disaster, and the whole power balance concept were all just fakes, how makes that any logical sense to you?


thats if all of their crews join forces, that is not what i am talking about. i'm saying that on their own. no crews.no nothing. just in one on one fights. no cheap shots. i think every admiral beats every yonko based on what ive seen in the story thus far. it is a canon fact that the marines when fighting on marineford are at an disadvantage as that is navy hq. they live there. they have to protect that island. anyone who attacks does not have that worry. that was one of the reasons on top of not wanting ace saved you wouldnt want someone like whitebeard getting to the mainland. despite how cool his attacks looked the admirals nullfied whitebeard pretty swiftly at every turn.

Fact: aokiji stopped the tidal wave he sent at marineford. the admirals no diffed his shockwaves wb sent at the scaffold. when aokiji engaged whitebeard he froze him. yes wb broke out. next aokiji was going to stab him, you cant argue that whitebeard wouldnt hjave taken damage because he was getting stabbed all arc by lesser weapons than an aokiji named attack. had jozu not attacked white beard would have been filleted.


when akainu stepped in front of whitbeard he literally stated it was because wb was destroying the town. then akanu who is suppressed, is standing up to wb's full force. then wb loses that encounter. with the hole in his chest. then when wb fought kizaru he was a JOKE!!!!!!! he didnt so much as touch the lightman. kizaru was standing on homeys weapon with his hands in his pockets. whitebeard couldnt even stop kizaru from destroying the key. not just any man but the worlds strongest. lol. like i dont see how you all are all so caught up in these fan made terms. to blatantly disregard on panel feats. yes if every yonko teames up theyd be crazy because they bring their crews along with them. and they come knocking at the marines headquarters or another place the marines are vulnerable  that would be a disater. but if they had to fight on even ground no crew just head up one on ones full power i see the admirals taking it, wb was cake all marineford for the admirals. and despite your biases it is true.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 5, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> then akanu who is suppressed, is standing up to wb's full force


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## nmwn93 (Feb 5, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


>


i get you do not like the word suppressed but it fits, if the man cant or shouldnt go all out then what would you like me to call it. whitbeard flipped the island when he got there after trying to sink it with a tsunami. after ace was saved he cracked it in half and panned to sink it or at the very least try while his crew got away. one of my points with bringing him up is the fact that he was no match for the admirals. shows that these epithets these pirates have can indeed be outddated and or wrong. to whomever shared the picture of akainu no diffing the commanders in a bed of lava you leave out a little context... he was attacking pirates and didnt burn more of the area than he needed too. also he was headed to the mainlain towards the boats ie... away from marineford. thats not a good pull



Shunsuiju said:


> It's hard to respond to such a chaotic mess.
> 
> "Kaido struggled with the Rooftop 5, Akainu murked these guys"
> 
> ...


feel free to avoid the mess then.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 5, 2021)

h


Strobacaxi said:


> The fact that the WG forced them to go to WG under threat to join forces with the marines to fight a single yonkou crew?
> 
> The Shichibukai and Marines are allies lol why the fuck would they balance each other out?
> 
> ...


matching him? akainu didnt have any holes in the chest and even before the heart attacks wb was in bad physical shape. its already canon that in a serious fight akainu can go for 11 days. any of the yonko amke you think that yet?


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## TheWiggian (Feb 5, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Powercreep? I doubt someone like Fujitora is going to look better than Shanks, Mihawk or Kaido.
> 
> Akainu, maybe. But he's his own animal.



You say that but will you be able to do the same in the next arcs? 

They're already on equal footing. But as I said discussing that is pointless right now, you will need to see it with their own eyes when the time comes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kroczilla (Feb 5, 2021)

muchentuchen said:


> There are only 3 active Admirals but there are 4 active Yonkous. 3 = 4 therefore 3 > 4.


The yonko are at war with each other and yet the Marines still needed another world power to maintain the balance. Should tell you everything you need to know about Who's stronger.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Feb 5, 2021)

They're roughly on par as two groups. 

Either fight between them would most likely end in a long high to extreme diff fight. 

I think, Oda is clearly showing them as two sides of the same coin. And probably never intended 'Admiral level' to be a stop gap for anything. Doesn't even make sense as a story writing concept.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## MHA massive fan (Feb 5, 2021)

Hybrid kaido >> any admiral


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## Ezekjuninor (Feb 5, 2021)

GucciBandana said:


> It is pretty obvious now how impressive Akainu's feats were back in MF, man got rushed by Marco + Vista, shrugged it off with a mean mug, while Kaido is getting knocked all over the place screaming


And yet Kizaru failed to defeat Marco without a distraction and same for Aokiji with Jozu.


GucciBandana said:


> sweating buckets over Zoro's missed attack


Zoro's missed attack with Enma in which Zoro used so much haki he was wheezing? Yeah I'm sure an admiral would be fine tanking that.


GucciBandana said:


> I mean even Law's counter shock gets BM screaming, something Vergo tanked.


She took no damage? Vergo was seen visibly bleeding from the attack.


GucciBandana said:


> Lastly, about time for people to realize one reference point comparison don't work no more, or else using Zoro as reference point, Fuji would get placed higher than Kaido, which obviously shouldn't be the case.


What?   Zoro 300 chapters ago without Enma was pushing Fujitora back and countering his gravity techniques. You realise Zoro got stronger right.


GucciBandana said:


> Old WB(no heart attack) does seem like the strongest Yonkou, like he's portrayed to be, multiple times.
> 
> 
> GucciBandana said:
> ...


WB is portrayed as the WSM idk why you would single out Yonkou. The version of WB known by Big Mom is significantly stronger than the version Akainu fought. That was highlighted by Marco already. WB was then further nerfed with a massive bisento going through his chest. He was still able to match Akainu. I don't see how that is meant to be a positive feat for admirals.



nmwn93 said:


> h
> 
> matching him? akainu didnt have any holes in the chest and even before the heart attacks wb was in bad physical shape. its already canon that in a serious fight akainu can go for 11 days. any of the yonko amke you think that yet?


Ace and Jimbei fought for 5 days. Big Mom and Kaidou fought for 2 days without a scratch or any sign of fatigue. They can fight for that long because they're near equals it's not some amazing feat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Feb 5, 2021)

Some Admirals are stronger than some Yonkou, some Yonkou are stronger than some Admirals. All of them are weaker than Mihawk.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## MO (Feb 5, 2021)

idk about the other yonkos. But Big Mom is definitely stronger thats for sure.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 3


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## GucciBandana (Feb 5, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The fact that the WG forced them to go to WG under threat to join forces with the marines to fight a single yonkou crew?



To ensure the public execution, against the strongest Pirate crew in all blue.
WG also sent all their military force against 4 out of 7 Shichibukais...



Strobacaxi said:


> The Shichibukai and Marines are allies lol why the fuck would they balance each other out?



Because it's mentioned OVER and OVER again, Shichibukais are still pirates. They are a threat to both Yonkous and Marines. Plus I'm pretty sure the manga just showed how they balance each other out, Marines are fighting Warlords now.



Strobacaxi said:


> lol WB after getting a heart attack was still matching prime Akainu. And this is an old and sick WB who could barely use haki anymore. That's the yonkou Akainu was matching. A dying old sick man who could barely use haki and still had to constantly hold back because his fruit could sink the island his allies were standing on.



How is eating a Magma fist in the chest matching Akainu? WB does not have Heart Attacks constantly, they come and go, you can tell when a heart attack is coming, he feels some type of discomfort, even holds his chest.



Strobacaxi said:


> Thinking he could actually match a healthy WB  is just wishful thinking



Without Heart Attack, WB vs Akainu was a tie on panel. If the battle continued for 10 days, WB would prob win, based off his WSM portrayal.



Ezekjuninor said:


> And yet Kizaru failed to defeat Marco without a distraction and same for Aokiji with Jozu.



Kizaru barely even fought Marco, Jinbei vs BM was prob longer. Aokiji did fight Jozu longer, but that distraction wasn't only a KO, but caused Jozu an arm.
So did BM need a distraction to beat Franky? Just to fail?



Ezekjuninor said:


> Zoro's missed attack with Enma in which Zoro used so much haki he was wheezing? Yeah I'm sure an admiral would be fine tanking that.



That's cuz he missed, Kaido getting cut by Zoro's mid tier technique in a Tornado match, you really think he can shrug off a Zoro high tier technique with a mean mug? Not sure how you rank Marco, Vista, Zoro, but I'm pretty sure Zoro can't be stronger than Marco + Vista together right now.



Ezekjuninor said:


> She took no damage? Vergo was seen visibly bleeding from the attack.



Screaming means feeling pain, it is a type of damage... not as much as bleeding obviously, but supposedly BM is much much stronger than Vergo, who's Doflamingo's underling.



Ezekjuninor said:


> What?   Zoro 300 chapters ago without Enma was pushing Fujitora back and countering his gravity techniques. You realise Zoro got stronger right.



Zoro indeed got stronger, but
1. Fujitora made Zoro bleed, concrete solid damage.
2. Fujitora's technique used on Zoro is like one of his weakest techniques, he used it on fodder, Zoro had trouble handling it.
Do you think Zoro's power up sounds enough to close the gap?




Ezekjuninor said:


> WB is portrayed as the WSM idk why you would single out Yonkou. The version of WB known by Big Mom is significantly stronger than the version Akainu fought. That was highlighted by Marco already. WB was then further nerfed with a massive bisento going through his chest. He was still able to match Akainu. I don't see how that is meant to be a positive feat for admirals.



WSM > Admirals also, WSM > every man, WSM version of WB beats Akainu, beats Kaido.
Not sure sword through chest is a nerf, it's just taking damage, WB takes similar type of damage very frequent in MF, I mean, Akainu's magma fist can't be weaker than a stab from Squardo.

Reactions: Disagree 3 | Dislike 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 5, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Looks like a man who just got an ass whooping by Whitebeard and was using his remaining energy to kill as many people as possible and got one fodder.


nah, looks like a marine doing his job.and moving on rather swiftly to the next objective


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## ClannadFan (Feb 6, 2021)

You can tell if someone is baised towards one side based on thier take on Akainu vs WB.

Akainu is clearly Yonko lvl, likely Aokiji too. The others are debatable.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> The entire marines + Schichibukai = Yonkou
> 
> So 3 admirals + Mihawk + FA = Yonko.
> 
> If a sick WB who could barely use haki anymore and was having heart attacks mid fight was matched by a prime Akainu, how do you think a not sick WB who could use haki perfectly would not be quite stronger?


“Matched.”

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Feb 6, 2021)

Yonko = Marines and Shichibukai. That is a manga fact people ignore.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 6, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> “Matched.”


yep



Akainu was lucky BB showed up and WB forgot about him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> yep
> 
> 
> 
> Akainu was lucky BB showed up and WB forgot about him


What would have WB done, jumped into the depths of hell along with Akainu?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 6, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> What would have WB done, jumped into the depths of hell along with Akainu?


Use his long distance attacks to push him further down until he fell down to the sea?


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Use his long distance attacks to push him further down until he fell down to the sea?


Pretty sure that would have split Marineford and sunk many of his own men.

Also considering Akainu burrowed out moments later, I doubt that would have worked regardless.


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 6, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> Pretty sure that would have split Marineford and sunk many of his own men.
> 
> Also considering Akainu burrowed out moments later, I doubt that would have worked regardless.


Well that just helps my argument that Akainu was matching not only a sick old WB, but also a WB who was holding back.

WB defeated BB and was killed, and then BB took his powers, and only then did Akainu show up again. When Buggy was already holding Jimbei. It wasn't moments later.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> Well that just helps my argument that Akainu was matching not only a sick old WB, but also a WB who was holding back.


I was hoping you would fall for the bait. I wonder who was holding back more, the people destroying marineford or the people protecting marineford? We know for a fact the Admirals didn't, and probably couldn't, use awakening  in case it harmed the base/their allies(neither could they probably use their most devastating non awakening AoE abilities), while WB freely used his DF to destroy Marineford, often going way over-board.


Strobacaxi said:


> *WB defeated BB and was killed, and then BB took his powers*, and only then did Akainu show up again. When Buggy was already holding Jimbei. It wasn't moments later.


Except Akainu was already actively burrowing underground at that time to catchup to Jimbe. Also, Buggy wasn't holding Jimbe at the time, you're conflating it with later afair.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strobacaxi (Feb 6, 2021)

Vivo Diez said:


> I was hoping you would fall for the bait. I wonder who was holding back more, the people destroying marineford or the people protecting marineford?


I'm gonna go ahead and say the guy who could've cannonically sunk the entire island in the first couple of attacks but didn't.

BTW, I gotta say I love this. Make up your mind bro


Vivo Diez said:


> Pretty sure that would have split Marineford and sunk many of his own men





Vivo Diez said:


> while WB freely used his DF to destroy Marineford





Vivo Diez said:


> Except Akainu was already actively burrowing underground at that time to catchup to Jimbe.


Thanks for the info Oda, if only you could've shown us that instead of having Akainu MIA for 3 chapters...


Still ignoring that WB could barely use haki and was so sick he was having heart attacks lol

The Yonko level WB was the WB who was knocking out Ace in his sleep (The same Ace who was stalemating Jimbei and Yamato, so not a scrub), not the one failing to dodge or block Squard or failing to use CoC to save Ace.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and say the guy who could've cannonically sunk the entire island in the first couple of attacks but didn't.
> 
> BTW, I gotta say I love this. Make up your mind bro


I think we're both wrong actually. Unless I'm misreading, It seems like he did already split it clean to the ocean:




Yet somehow Akainu doesn't fall into the water, I wonder how..



Strobacaxi said:


> Thanks for the info Oda, if only you could've shown us that instead of having Akainu MIA for 3 chapters...


You can make an educated guess that the fact that he caught up with Jimbe from where he was with Whitebeard at the time that he wasn't just laying unconscious underground...

Also he was MIA for all of one chapter, not three

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 6, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Yonko = Marines and Shichibukai. That is a manga fact people ignore.


The yonko also have crews tho. Yonko have more and stronger high tiers than government forces from everything we’ve seen.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> yep
> 
> 
> 
> Akainu was lucky BB showed up and WB forgot about him


Not really. He just couldn’t follow up. Akainu took shots from WB and kept going. WB was hit by Akainu and received a fatal blow from that one punch. Earlier Akainu stopped his quake bisento with one foot and his hands in his pocket. The idea that Emperors are a lot stronger than Admirals has no basis in the story. They’re at the same level.


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## Vivo Diez (Feb 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> The yonko also have crews tho. Yonko have more and stronger high tiers than government forces from everything we’ve seen.


True, people ignore that a single yonko crew could decimate the majority of vice admirals and below. Another yonko crew could beat the shichibukai(not counting outliers like Mihawk).


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## Duhul10 (Feb 6, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Not really. He just couldn’t follow up. Akainu took shots from WB and kept going. WB was hit by Akainu and received a fatal blow from that one punch. Earlier Akainu stopped his quake bisento with one foot and his hands in his pocket. The idea that Emperors are a lot stronger than Admirals has no basis in the story. They’re at the same level.


Wb vs Akainu

Result: WB --> on his feet, continues with a fight against BB ( injured, but still capable of destroying the Yami fruit owner and taking multiple shots before going down )
Akainu --> screaming his victorious foe's name while crawling into the abyss; next seen, a couple of chapters later...

Reactions: Winner 2


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 6, 2021)

Akainu's status after those hits is irrelevant in a discussion like this. Since there's no evidence that Whitebeard would have landed those hits in a normal situation, all that which this back and forth does is leave us with the knowledge that _both _Akainu and MF Whitebeard could seriously damage each other if their hits connected.

When Whitebeard and Akainu were duelling in a relatively normal situation, Whitebeard was at a disadvantage, due to his poor health and injury.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 6, 2021)

It is NEVER stated which side is stronger ...WB was en exception, even in his old state he was above any other Yonko/Admiral but by a small gap of course. He cheapshotted Akainu from behind and Oda had at least to let WB shine against Akainu after everything Akainu did to him and his crew before. This could be count as "PIS".

If it was 4 Yonkos vs 4 Admirals, it would be definitely an extreme diff fight. The Yonko might have the very slightest edge here, but I don't see any big difference at all.

It doesn't make sense for every Yonko being stronger than every Admiral, otherwise they would overwhelm the MHQ a long time ago.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just think properly:

4 Yonko ~ 4 Admirals

YFM's + YC's + Tobiropo ~ Strong VA's + Warlords & their crew.

Rest / Fodder ~ Rest / Fodder

=>
That is the *perfect *balance.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## GucciBandana (Feb 6, 2021)

Strobacaxi said:


> yep
> 
> 
> 
> Akainu was lucky BB showed up and WB forgot about him



Did you quote me or nah? Notification says you did.
Why don't you look at the panel when WB sneak attacked from behind? like Kaido did to Oden.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 6, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Yonko = Marines and Shichibukai. That is a manga fact people ignore.


Big Mom, Katakuri, Smoothie, Cracker, Snack = Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Mihawk, Doflamingo etc ?

or

all Yonko at once?

This is the same as the Yonko being "balanced" it's not a matchup or character vs. character thing, it's more about politics and the ability of each crew to reign over the New World equally.

I don't know what deficiency really makes someone believe it's about the matchups and Oda really thinks about these things. The mind boggles,


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 6, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Wb vs Akainu
> 
> Result: WB --> on his feet, continues with a fight against BB ( injured, but still capable of destroying the Yami fruit owner and taking multiple shots before going down )
> Akainu --> screaming his victorious foe's name while crawling into the abyss; next seen, a couple of chapters later...


Give it up, buddy. Akainu melted his brain.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 6, 2021)

I love how people act like Akainu was perfectly fine after Whitebeard.


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## Ezekjuninor (Feb 6, 2021)

GucciBandana said:


> To ensure the public execution, against the strongest Pirate crew in all blue.
> WG also sent all their military force against 4 out of 7 Shichibukais...


You just made that up cause as far as we know that was never shown.


GucciBandana said:


> That's cuz he missed, Kaido getting cut by Zoro's mid tier technique in a Tornado match, you really think he can shrug off a Zoro high tier technique with a mean mug? Not sure how you rank Marco, Vista, Zoro, but I'm pretty sure Zoro can't be stronger than Marco + Vista together right now.


I never said Kaidou could. You implied that Admiral would be any different than Kaidou was when he was "sweating" from a charged up Enma attack. And yeah I'm pretty sure an attack that used so much haki that Zoro was wheezing due to Enma, is more threatening than an unnamed attack from vista and marco.


GucciBandana said:


> Screaming means feeling pain, it is a type of damage... not as much as bleeding obviously, but supposedly BM is much much stronger than Vergo, who's Doflamingo's underling.


And yet we see no visible damage from the attack so it's not even worth noting and it's obviously a stronger version of Law considering he used countershock on Vergo over 300 chapters ago.


GucciBandana said:


> Zoro indeed got stronger, but
> 1. Fujitora made Zoro bleed, concrete solid damage.
> 2. Fujitora's technique used on Zoro is like one of his weakest techniques, he used it on fodder, Zoro had trouble handling it.
> Do you think Zoro's power up sounds enough to close the gap?


Fujitora inflicted a superficial wound on Zoro and was sent flying back by Zoro's slash that wasn't even named.

Meanwhile, Big Mom blocks a kong gun from Luffy and doesn't even move.
Kaidou tanked Luffy's Kong Organ without a scratch. Unlike Fujitora against DR Zoro, Kaidou is taking attacks from 5 different people and he's spent half the fight just tanking attacks. When Zoro survives an attack from base or hybrid kaidou with superficial injuries we can talk.


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 6, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I love how people act like Akainu was perfectly fine after Whitebeard.


He wasn’t, but he kept on fighting. At best that fight was inconclusive. At worst, Akainu won since he’s the only one to deliver fatal blows.


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## Shunsuiju (Feb 6, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> He wasn’t, but he kept on fighting. At best that fight was inconclusive. At worst, Akainu won since he’s the only one to deliver fatal blows.


Fair. I think Akainu wouldn't have been in serious fighting shape after that. Aokiji or Shanks would have beaten him without going all out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 6, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Give it up, buddy. Akainu melted his brain.


sorry buddy, he left the scene crying for WB like a little slut and hopelessly falling  while WB kept on with his business.


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## gogcho (Feb 6, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> sorry buddy, he left the scene crying for WB like a little slut and hopelessly falling  while WB kept on with his business.


Gee, the poor bastard should've just kept standing on his legs after getting blindsided by the most powerful paramecia in the world while its user was bloodlusted...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (Feb 6, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> sorry buddy, he left the scene crying for WB like a little slut and hopelessly falling  while WB kept on with his business.


And he left WB with a third of his head gone and a melted chest after killing his son. Talk about cucked. Whotebeard didn’t win that one, even though he got in a cheap shot while bloodlusted. At his peak he was probably stronger (but not overwhelmingly). At Marineford, he wasn’t.


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## JustSumGuy (Feb 6, 2021)

As fucked up as WB was, you give him a free, bloodlusted shot on anyone and it’s gonna be devastating. And I’d argue that Akainu came out of the skirmish better than WB did since I think WB would’ve died from that injury.

We saw all Admirals go up against WB in a neutral situation and none of them looked worse than him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## JustSumGuy (Feb 6, 2021)

I’m starting to think along the lines of..

Yonko = Admirals who have King’s Haki (Prime Sengoku and Garp, Akainu)

I know King’s Haki shouldn’t mean that much since it’s just glorified fodder control but I definitely think there’s a cap that Oda puts on characters that don’t have it. Like, the strongest character who doesn’t have it is probably like Aokiji or something like that.

But it’s not like anyone currently in the world could deal with any admiral without high diff in my opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## GucciBandana (Feb 6, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> You just made that up cause as far as we know that was never shown.



I guess, made up logic, just like using MF + Shichibukai vs WB as some type of evidence to powerscale other Yonkous?



Ezekjuninor said:


> I never said Kaidou could. You implied that Admiral would be any different than Kaidou was when he was "sweating" from a charged up Enma attack. And yeah I'm pretty sure an attack that used so much haki that Zoro was wheezing due to Enma, is more threatening than an unnamed attack from vista and marco.



Not sure about Admirals would be different, I just know Marco + Vista doesn't faze Akainu, but Kaido sweating from Zoro, canon facts.
whether you believe Vista and Marco refuse to use their stronger attacks against to man who just killed Ace, that's up to your imagination.



Ezekjuninor said:


> And yet we see no visible damage from the attack so it's not even worth noting and it's obviously a stronger version of Law considering he used countershock on Vergo over 300 chapters ago.



Screaming is not worth noting?? hmm, since when?
Stronger Law, same attack. Like was Luffy's Elephant Gun on Page One "stronger" than the one he used to stop Big Mom's attack, together with Sanji?



Ezekjuninor said:


> Fujitora inflicted a superficial wound on Zoro and was sent flying back by Zoro's slash that wasn't even named.



First, screaming is not worth noting, now "superficial" wound. So why is Fuji getting pushed back worth noting all of a sudden? Can't be worse than screaming.
Zoro's unnamed attack vs Fuji's unnamed attack, clearly Fuji won, but Zoro's tornado vs Kaido's tornado, I wonder who came up on top, hmmm.



Ezekjuninor said:


> Meanwhile, Big Mom blocks a kong gun from Luffy and doesn't even move.



And? Kaido moved getting hit by an Elephant Gun, even his eyes turned white, would that mean BM > Fuji > Kaido?
Meanwhile, Zoro blocks a BM Heavenly Fire, doesn't "move" either, but surely moved when Fuji attacked him.



Ezekjuninor said:


> Kaidou tanked Luffy's Kong Organ without a scratch. Unlike Fujitora against DR Zoro, Kaidou is taking attacks from 5 different people and he's spent half the fight just tanking attacks. When Zoro survives an attack from base or hybrid kaidou with superficial injuries we can talk.



Kong Organ is weak, I mean Mera Sabo's attacks can't be weaker than Kong Organ right? 
Kaido is fighting 5 people, with BM's help.
Base Luffy already survived Thunder Bagua...


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 7, 2021)

Let's ask Oda Sensei Kappa shall we?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

This fight is as far as I know the only situation in Shonen ( based on my knowledge, or at least my memory ), where a clear loss ( one up, one down ) is turned into a win because the loser managed to seriously injure the winner. It's like me saying that if I stab Khabib Nurmagomedov between his ribs and then he pins me to the ground and pummels me, I won, not him, because I cut him.


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## gogcho (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> This fight is as far as I know the only situation in Shonen ( based on my knowledge, or at least my memory ), where a clear loss ( one up, one down ) is turned into a win because the loser managed to seriously injure the winner. It's like me saying that if I stab Khabib Nurmagomedov between his ribs and then he pins me to the ground and pummels me, I won, not him, because I cut him.


I like the analogy. How about this: you hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he fires back and inflicts you with a mortal wound, after that you capitalize on your first illegal shot with a second direct hit and Khabib falls off the octagon temporarily incapable to continue the fight. A few minutes later he gets back in the octagon with the intention to kill you but you are no longer there. So he jumps out of the octagon and solos the entirety of your corner.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

gogcho said:


> I like the analogy. How about this: you hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he fires back and inflicts you with a mortal wound, after that you capitalize on your first illegal shot and Khabib falls off the octagon temporarily incapable to continue the fight. A few minutes later he gets back in the octagon with the intention to kill you but you are no longer there. So he jumps out of the octagon and solos the entirety of your corner.


illegal shot? akainu order wb;s heart to attack him. unless you're saying the magma man swayed something other than swquard, badum tsss. anyway. your comparison is wrong in principle. it was not an illegal blow its a war. an all out war. illegal blow where??? if anything wb hit akainu with the illegal blow then got his face eaten.

i really hope you folks go back and re watch marineford and peep that the admirals were handling wb at every turn.  and if not fir luffy wb may have not made it passed the encircling walls and thats FACTS


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## Djomla (Feb 7, 2021)

Ever been kicked at the speed of Light?


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

yall gon stop playing


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

gogcho said:


> I like the analogy. How about this: you hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he fires back and inflicts you with a mortal wound, after that you capitalize on your first illegal shot and Khabib falls off the octagon temporarily incapable to continue the fight. A few minutes later he gets back in the octagon with the intention to kill you but you are no longer there. So he jumps out of the octagon and solos the entirety of your corner.


If I hit him hard enough so that he shouts my name in Pain as he is falling and he gets to stay there enough time before finally managing to crawl back, then yes, I won of course. 
Also, let's add a bit o retrospective to your analogy. Let's add the fact that before I hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he also hit me with one as I was having a heart attack ? Seems pretty fair. I win in the end.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

kizaru is TOYING WITH THIS MAN


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## gogcho (Feb 7, 2021)

Djomla said:


> Ever been kicked at the speed of Light?


It was so cringe worthy when Kizaru said that

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If I hit him hard enough so that he shouts my name in Pain as he is falling and he gets to stay there enough time before finally managing to crawl back, then yes, I won of course.
> Also, let's add a bit o retrospective to your analogy. Let's add the fact that before I hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he also hit me with one as I was having a heart attack ? Seems pretty fair. I win in the end.


whitebeard lost tht fight fam


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> whitebeard lost tht fight fam


repeating it doesn't make it true. That'll only make it worse in the long run...it will affect you, you know, living in denial.


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## gogcho (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If I hit him hard enough so that he shouts my name in Pain as he is falling and he gets to stay there enough time before finally managing to crawl back, then yes, I won of course.
> Also, let's add a bit o retrospective to your analogy. Let's add the fact that before I hit Khabib with an illegal shot, he also hit me with one as I was having a heart attack ? Seems pretty fair. I win in the end.


No you didn't win because you hit him with an illegal shot to the back of the head. There are rules in the octagon and that is an illegal shot for sure (just continuing with your analogy, I can stop if you want ).

Something more, the fact that he's still conscious after your illegal shot shows what a tough friend he is.

Alright cool, before that Khabib also hit you with an illegal shot but he was dumb enough not to remove your head from your shoulders with his ultimate attack right there, so instead he targeted your body like a dumbass


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## Kroczilla (Feb 7, 2021)

People talking about "illegal shots" as if they weren't in the middle of a battle.

Also iirc, Akainu didn't hesitate to pump WB's chest full of magma when the latter was crouched over from a sudden heart attack.

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

this is for all of you who ignore facts. here is the exact moment where the entire wb pirate alliance would have been KILLED if not for luffy 
i dont get the illegal shot thing. facts are although whitebeards sneak attack looked nicer and felt better but all he did was knock akainu through the ground and the magma man lost his footing and held his ribs. but akainu took half his face off and impaled him a second time. also akainu made a hole underground and got back to the chase... howd wb win anything but gans hearts in that scene?if akainu were as efective as wb was ace would still be alive...

i was wrong when akainu regrouped from wbs sneak attack he wasnt even holding his ribs so again HOW DID WB WIN THAT!!!


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## Kroczilla (Feb 7, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> i dont get the illegal shot thing. facts are although whitebeards sneak attack looked nicer and felt better but all he did was knock akainu through the ground and the magma man lost his footing and held his ribs. but akainu took half his face off and impaled him a second time. also akainu made a hole underground and got back to the chase... howd wb win anything but gans hearts in that scene?if akainu were as efective as wb was ace would still be alive...


Ain't exactly impressive considering every fodder with a gun or pointy object was making holes in old WB. The man could barely even use haki. Akainu failing to straight up kill him after two tries is an L for the admiral.


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

gogcho said:


> No you didn't win because you hit him with an illegal shot to the back of the head. There are rules in the octagon and that is an illegal shot for sure (just continuing with your analogy, I can stop if you want ).
> 
> Something more, the fact that he's still conscious after your illegal shot shows what a tough friend he is.
> 
> Alright cool, before that Khabib also hit you with an illegal shot but he was dumb enough not to remove your head from your shoulders with his ultimate attack right there, so instead he targeted your body like a dumbass


we both hit each other with illegal shots and yet I emerged victorious.


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> i dont get the illegal shot thing. facts are although whitebeards sneak attack looked nicer and felt better but all he did was knock akainu through the ground and the magma man lost his footing and held his ribs. but akainu took half his face off and impaled him a second time. also *akainu made a hole underground and got back to the chase*... howd wb win anything but gans hearts in that scene?if akainu were as efective as wb was ace would still be alive...


akainu fell, he did not deliberately get there and we do not know for how long he was incapacitated. It took the guy more than 2 chapters to get out of there. If he was fully conscious and perfectly fine a single magma attack would've got him out instantly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord Melkor (Feb 7, 2021)

GucciBandana said:


> Oh boy, this day's gotta come eventually, somebody has to say it.
> 
> Not sure about Admirals stronger than Yonkous, but clearly the fantasy land some fans been living in got destroyed hard.
> It is pretty obvious now how impressive Akainu's feats were back in MF, man got rushed by Marco + Vista, shrugged it off with a mean mug, while Kaido is getting knocked all over the place screaming, when attacked by any of the rooftop 5, and sweating buckets over Zoro's missed attack, I mean even Law's counter shock gets BM screaming, something Vergo tanked.
> ...



Counter argument to this is that the Yonkous are not united so it is highly unlikely that Marines would ever face all Yonkou at the same time. Though one Yonkou crew definately looks like it would have no chance against the entire might of Marines.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> This fight is as far as I know the only situation in Shonen ( based on my knowledge, or at least my memory ), where a clear loss ( one up, one down ) is turned into a win because the loser managed to seriously injure the winner. It's like me saying that if I stab Khabib Nurmagomedov between his ribs and then he pins me to the ground and pummels me, I won, not him, because I cut him.


If we're in a war and we both get two clean shots, but your shots seals my fate and i only beat the shit out of you and even leave you unconscious , obviously you won that fight

Reactions: Like 2


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> akainu fell, he did not deliberately get there and we do not know for how long he was incapacitated. It took the guy more than 2 chapters to get out of there. If he was fully conscious and perfectly fine a single magma attack would've got him out instantly.


you kind of do nd if you watched the video i posted they even show it. yes indeed akinu fell,  the ground from under him collapsed per wbs fruit nd he was quick enough for jinbe not  to have gotten very far


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> If we're in a war and we both get two clean shots, but your shots seals my fate and i only beat the shit out of you and even leave you unconscious , obviously you won that fight


no, you won the fight if I am unconscious. Injuries are not important, what matters most is who is the last man standing in the confrontation.
Not to mention that WB was close to his death even before the confrontation.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> no, you won the fight if I am unconscious. Injuries are not important, what matters most is who is the last man standing in the confrontation.
> Not to mention that WB was close to his death even before the confrontation.


akainu was never un concious. pull up the panel


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> akaiu was never un concious


I just answered to his analogy. He mentioned unconsciousness. Also, tbh, for a conscious guy, Akainu sure is slow. More than 2 chapters for a climb ? That's one hell of a BFR   He was either out, or he was slow as hell due to his injuries.


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I just answered to his analogy. He mentioned unconsciousness. Also, tbh, for a conscious guy, Akainu sure is slow. More than 2 chapters for a climb ? That's one hell of a BFR   He was either out, or he was slow as hell due to his injuries.


i think youre adding arbitrary time though, you know enough about one piece to know what seems long to us is quick in the story.  whole cake island too almost 2 years for us? it was a week in the actual story,

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> no, you won the fight if I am unconscious. Injuries are not important, what matters most is who is the last man standing in the confrontation.
> Not to mention that WB was close to his death even before the confrontation.


Aight WB won  the confrontation, but Akainu won that war 



Duhul10 said:


> More than 2 chapters for a climb ? That's one hell of a BFR   He was either out, or he was slow as hell due to his injuries.


dont do that lol
we know exactly what happened and that couldn't have been more than 20mins top


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## Duhul10 (Feb 7, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> Aight WB won  the confrontation, but Akainu won that war
> 
> 
> dont do that lol
> we know exactly what happened and that couldn't have been more than 20mins top


20 minutes?! I take naps shorter than that bro...


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> 20 minutes?! I take naps shorter than that bro...


highball lol
all that happened in 2 chapters:

Akainu went down that cliff, enter BB pirates -> Wb destroys the platform, then sons BB in like 3 pages -> Wb speech -> pirates start to bail
then pop Akainu back

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

i doubt it was 20 minutes, because wasnt jimbe still in the same spot when akainu came back ?  ur saying jimbe waited 20 miutes? lol


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## nmwn93 (Feb 7, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> highball lol
> all that happened in 2 chapters:
> 
> Akainu went down that cliff, enter BB pirates -> Wb destroys the platform, then sons BB in like 3 pages -> Wb speech -> pirates start to bail
> then pop Akainu back


facts dont always mean much, just know i see you

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 7, 2021)

*Spoiler*: __ 






_9
Pirates: Eh - ? // !!! / ?!!
Akainu: I already told you, you're not getting away. / Why must you persist in clinging vainly to life, you damned fool...?
Pirates: It's Akainu!!! Was he not defeated before?!!! // He's snuck around in front of us by melting a path under the ground!!!_



_9
Jimbei: *pant*... *pant*... // If I reach the ocean, the advantage is mine!!! // I will escape you yet!! // ?!! // ...............!! // Curses......!! The ice!!!
Aokiji: Sorry to do this to you, Jimbei...
People: Nguaaaaahhhh!!!
Jimbei: !!
People: Aaaaghhhh!!
Jimbei: Here he comes...!!_




The Akainu was unconcious thing is completely baseless. Melting through the undergound and easily catching up to Luffy and Jinbei despite all forces concentrating on stopping him in his tracks absolutely crushes that notion.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## gogcho (Feb 7, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I just answered to his analogy. He mentioned unconsciousness. Also, tbh, for a conscious guy, Akainu sure is slow. More than 2 chapters for a climb ? That's one hell of a BFR   He was either out, or he was slow as hell due to his injuries.


He was never out, he shouted something before going down. The logical conclusion would be that he needed to recuperate from his heavy injuries and needed 10 minutes off.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 7, 2021)

@Duhul10 it's also a pretty great CoO feat from Akainu following Luffy and Jinbei underground with no sight

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Feb 7, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the anime although filler has him hanging on somewhere down the cliff to then melting through the ground just like in the manga
seems more likely he never even lost conscious


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## MrPopo (Feb 7, 2021)

Admirals ~ Yonkou, they been shown to be on the same level on multiple occasions by Oda

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Feb 7, 2021)

MrPopo said:


> Admirals ~ Yonkou, they been shown to be on the same level on multiple occasions by Oda


This ! But be careful, I guess @YonkoDrippy is gonna dislike that

Reactions: Funny 1


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## gogcho (Feb 7, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> In the anime although filler has him hanging on somewhere down the cliff to then melting through the ground just like in the manga
> seems more likely he never even lost conscious


Tbh I liked the anime version of what happened after that even tho it isn't cannon.
We see Akainu barely holding onto a rock (still conscious otherwise he would've drowned in the water below) and coughing blood (which shows the heavy damage he's taken). After that he proceeds to make his way underground.
I think the anime team chose the most logical explanation and stuck with it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 7, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> In the anime although filler has him hanging on somewhere down the cliff to then melting through the ground just like in the manga
> seems more likely he never even lost conscious



Dunno, i don't follow the anime much at all. I know there is absolutely no indication he was unconcious in the manga


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## GucciBandana (Feb 7, 2021)

Lord Melkor said:


> Counter argument to this is that the Yonkous are not united so it is highly unlikely that Marines would ever face all Yonkou at the same time. Though one Yonkou crew definately looks like it would have no chance against the entire might of Marines.



Neither will the Warlords, it was stated by narration that they won't.
Admirals aren't truly united either, they don't attack together, and they have very different beliefs, even caused a death match between 2 of them, something never happened between Yonkous.


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## Sherlōck (Feb 8, 2021)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> In the anime although filler has him hanging on somewhere down the cliff to then melting through the ground just like in the manga
> seems more likely he never even lost conscious


If Akainu was unconscious he would have drowned.

It's 2021 & we are still having same argument.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

TBH though I can definitely see the point of view of the Yonko camp. We've seen what Akainu has done during the MF arc, and not a lot of people can question his place among the top tiers. But one can hardly state for sure that Yonko = Admirals just because of him.

The biggest hole in the argument is Doflamingo and how he acted when confronted with Aokiji and Fujitora, compared to how he acted when the possibility had arisen about him facing the wrath of Kaido. He attacked Fujitora during the Dressarosa arc, and didn't look intimidated at all, not even once during the whole arc, when confronted by him.

Same with Aokiji. Doflamingo ignored him and was about to finish Smoker but was frozen at the end. I don't think Doflamingo wanted any of that smoke, but he didn't look intimidated, not at all actually compared to how he looks like when thinking about Kaido.

The last argument is how Fujitora got bruised and pushed back by a Dressarossa Luffy. On top of that he was huffing and puffing as well, but that can be attributed to him holding the whole city in the air at the same time.
Also Fujitora was still bandaged up one week after facing the Revolutionary commanders with Greenbull. That's not a good portrayal.

I'm just inviting people to an honest discussion, that's all.

@TheWiggian @Sherlōck

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> TBH though I can definitely see the point of view of the Yonko camp. We've seen what Akainu has done during the MF arc, and not a lot of people can question his place among the top tiers. But one can hardly state for sure that Yonko = Admirals just because of him.
> 
> The biggest hole in the argument is Doflamingo and how he acted when confronted with Aokiji and Fujitora, compared to how he acted when the possibility had arisen about him facing the wrath of Kaido. He attacked Fujitora during the Dressarosa arc, and didn't look intimidated at all, not even once during the whole arc, when confronted by him.
> 
> ...



Not intimidated =/ close in power or whatever argument they have. SN's are not intimidated by the 2 Yonks currently 

Doflamingo could've been one shotted by Aokiji just like Jozu if the latter was serious and didn't stand around with his hands in the pocket 

Fujitora bandaged up after all the reverie events and escorting royalties around the whole world, i have yet to see a single piece of evidence how he got that bandage from the Yonko fans, big mouth yet nothing to back it up with something 


They are all bark and no bite. Just a little longer till Kaido and Big Mom fall until we move onto the real powerhouses like Shanks, BB and the navy admirals in the FW.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Not intimidated =/ close in power or whatever argument they have. SN's are not intimidated by the 2 Yonks currently
> 
> Doflamingo could've been one shotted by Aokiji just like Jozu if the latter was serious and didn't stand around with his hands in the pocket
> 
> ...





> They are all bark and no bite. Just a little longer till Kaido and Big Mom fall until we move onto the real powerhouses like Shanks, BB and the navy admirals in the FW.


That's definitely a very convincing argument. BM and Kaido do look like stepping stones for now. We'll see how things play out. Can't wait to see BB and Akainu serious and in action again.


Well, we didn't see what happened exactly during the Riverie, we can only headcannon about it. But the most likely scenario is that the Revolutionaries got defeated, but beat up Fujitora in the process, maybe even pretty badly. Then again, we don't know for sure, 0 evidence so far, but that's the most logical explanation for the time being.

I do agree Doflamingo was playing it cool and that he didn't want any of the Aokiji smoke for sure. He still looked more intimidated when having to face the prospect of confronting Kaido tho


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> *That's definitely a very convincing argument*. BM and Kaido do look like stepping stones for now. We'll see how things play out. Can't wait to see BB and Akainu serious and in action again.
> 
> 
> Well, we didn't see what happened exactly during the Riverie, we can only headcannon about it. But the most likely scenario is that the Revolutionaries got defeated, but beat up Fujitora in the process, maybe even pretty badly. Then again, we don't know for sure, 0 evidence so far, but that's the most logical explanation for the time being.
> ...


"They are all bark and no bite. Just a little longer till Kaido and Big Mom fall until we move onto the real powerhouses like Shanks, BB and the navy admirals in the FW."


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> "They are all bark and no bite. Just a little longer till Kaido and Big Mom fall until we move onto the real powerhouses like Shanks, BB and the navy admirals in the FW."


Yeah, I do think that. There's a reason Oda is saving them for last. I think most ppl agree EoS BB will be the biggest powerhouse, and I do think Shanks and Akainu may be stronger than Kaido and BM individually, considering what we've seen from Akainu, and also considering that Oda is saving them both for last together with BB. Shanks most likely possesses some kind of op version of Conquerors Haki.


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Yeah, I do think that. There's a reason Oda is saving them for last. I think most ppl agree EoS BB will be the biggest powerhouse, and I do think Shanks and Akainu may be stronger than Kaido and BM individually, considering what we've seen from Akainu, and also considering that Oda is saving them both for last together with BB. Shanks most likely possesses some kind of op version of Conquerors Haki.


Kaido has been confirmed to be the WSP by Killer and strongest in the verse by the "Mother" SBS. EoS BB will be stronger. The admirals are a big no, there is quite a difference in portrayal as you mentioned yourself.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> That's definitely a very convincing argument. BM and Kaido do look like stepping stones for now. We'll see how things play out. Can't wait to see BB and Akainu serious and in action again.
> 
> 
> Well, we didn't see what happened exactly during the Riverie, we can only headcannon about it. But the most likely scenario is that the Revolutionaries got defeated, but beat up Fujitora in the process, maybe even pretty badly. Then again, we don't know for sure, 0 evidence so far, but that's the most logical explanation for the time being.
> ...



Honestly i'd also be more afraid to face the whole Animal Kingdom Pirates than a single Admiral with a hometurf advantage  

But i wouldn't rule it out that Pica gave Doffy some sense of safety when he said he could solo whole Dressrosa


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido has been confirmed to be the WSP by Killer and strongest in the verse by the "Mother" SBS. EoS BB will be stronger. The admirals are a big no, there is quite a difference in portrayal as you mentioned yourself.


Akainu wasn't part of the equation tho. That's where we disagree.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Akainu wasn't part of the equation tho. That's where we disagree.



Look how he ignores that Akainu would be PK within a year from an SBS also. Seems like Oda holds him on a higher standart than mere Yonko. SBS legit indicates Akainu can become PK instead of any of the yonko, a fucking marine at that instead of a pirate lol


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Akainu wasn't part of the equation tho. That's where we disagree.


Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Look how he ignores that Akainu would be PK within a year from an SBS also. Seems like Oda holds him on a higher standart than mere Yonko. SBS legit indicates Akainu can become PK instead of any of the yonko.


If the MC started the journey with Akainu's power, of course he would. That is why it's called an MC, the plot is with him. That does not change the fact that Akainu < Kaido based on Oda's own words.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If the MC started the journey with Akainu's power, of course he would. That is why it's called an MC, the plot is with him. That does not change the fact that Akainu < Kaido based on Oda's own words.



Why didn't Oda use a Yonkou for the example? You know a pirate that even allies with another equal to try and reach that goal currently?


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If the MC started the journey with Akainu's power, of course he would. That is why it's called an MC, the plot is with him. That does not change the fact that Akainu < Kaido based on Oda's own words.


What were Oda's words ? Was it in a SBS? Because very often Oda replies in these in a joking manner.
But just for info, what did he say exactly?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Why didn't Oda use a Yonkou for the example? You know a pirate that even allies with another equal to try and reach that goal currently?


If the fact that Akainu would reach his goal as an MC in one year is what makes you believe he is above all even though there was no comparison, unlike the SBS where Oda explicitly put Kaido above Akainu, then I'll allow you to live your dream, tf


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> What were Oda's words ? Was it in a SBS? Because very often Oda replies in these in a joking manner.
> But just for info, what did he say exactly?



It was a gag:

*D: Odacchi!! In the sbs from volume 82 you told us how to escape from Akainu, bears, ghosts and the like. But when I try to do this before my angered mother I'm just beaten up... Is my mother stronger than Akainu?*_ P.N. Star Fairy

*O:* You better watch out! you're being too brash! A mother is the strongest living being in the world, even stronger than Kaido!! Don't you dare do it again! But, you know, your mother loves you more than anyone else._

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> What were Oda's words ? Was it in a SBS? Because very often Oda replies in these in a joking manner.
> But just for info, what did he say exactly?


Oda compared "Mothers" to Akainu, only to later say that mothers would beat EVEN Kaido. The comparison was so clear... the only reason I am not always bringing it up is because I'd make the admiral gang go nuts and because debates would not be fun anymore.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If the fact that Akainu would reach his goal as an MC in one year is what makes you believe he is above all even though there was no comparison, unlike the SBS where Oda explicitly put Kaido above Akainu, then I'll allow you to live your dream, tf



You allow me something? Who the fuck are you even to allow anyone anything? Akainu is held to a higher standart than the Yonkou else Oda could've used an actual pirate to reach the PK goal and not in a gag manner.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You allow me something? Who the fuck are you even to allow me anything? Akainu is held to a higher standart than the Yonkou else Oda could've used an actual pirate to reach the PK goal and not in a gag manner.


I am not a joke, unlike you who believe Akainu is stronger than Kaido because of that stupid reason, which has nothing to do with other characters and which does not put Akainu in contrast to anyone else.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I am not a joke, unlike you who believe Akainu is stronger than Kaido because of that stupid reason, which has nothing to do with other characters and which does not put Akainu in contrast to anyone else.



Oda's reason to use Akainu instead of Kaido is a stupid reason? Guess there is no credit at all in the mother gag either then, since it's a stupid reason according to you. Backpedalling to square one now about the "known as", "people say", "toughest guys in the world", "if it's a one on one, bet on the one with the hostage"

Reactions: GODA 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Not intimidated =/ close in power or whatever argument they have. SN's are not intimidated by the 2 Yonks currently


His argument was the degree of intimidation from doffy for admirals vs kaido. Idt anyone in the yonko camp thinks doffy is close to the admirals.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Oda's reason to use Akainu instead of Kaido is a stupid reason? Guess there is no credit at all in the mother gag either then, since it's a stupid reason according to you. Backpedalling to square one now about the "known as", "people say", "toughest guys in the world", "if it's a one on one, bet on the one with the hostage"


one statement mentions both characters and elicits a difference between them.
the other one is a statement which only concerns a character and compares him to nobody else. 
The difference is clear to the unbiased eye, but to the unbiased eye only and therefore I do not feel the need to fight for convincing you.


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## Kinjin (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> The biggest hole in the argument is Doflamingo and how he acted when confronted with Aokiji and Fujitora, compared to how he acted when the possibility had arisen about him facing the wrath of Kaido. He attacked Fujitora during the Dressarosa arc, and didn't look intimidated at all, not even once during the whole arc, when confronted by him.
> 
> Same with Aokiji. Doflamingo ignored him and was about to finish Smoker but was frozen at the end. I don't think Doflamingo wanted any of that smoke, but he didn't look intimidated, not at all actually compared to how he looks like when thinking about Kaido.
> 
> ...


These are easy to explain.

Doflamingo was a Shichibukai and an ally of the WG. Fujitora couldn't do anything against him because he had impunity. This is supported by the fact that Fujitora makes sure that Law isn't a Shichibukai anymore before attacking him in chapter 713. Kaido on the other hand is Doflamingo's business partner who has a reputation of not showing any mercy. He has no reason to care about his Shichibukai title and would've straight up killed Doflamingo for his failure.

Kuzan is known for his _Lazy Justice_, yet Doflamingo looked very intimidated  when Kuzan appeared behind him while he had his hands in his pockets and didn't dare to attack him afterwards.

Fujitora's motive was to expose Doflamingo and abolish the Shichibukai system in Dressrosa. It wasn't in his best interest to get in Luffy's way. He has morals hence _Moral Justice_. Being pushed back means nothing as weaker characters managed to do that against the Yonko.

We don't know the details of the Revos vs Admirals fight. A whole week passed so anything could've happened in that time frame. We've no confirmation of the circumstances surrounding Fujitora's bandages. What if Ryokugyu didn't get single scratch while they hit Fujitora due to hax abilities (e.g. Karasu)? Also, we have no idea how strong the commanders are. For all we know Karasu and Morley could be YC2 and YC3 level respectively while Sabo could be stronger than any Supernova currently on the rooftop considering Oda went through the effort to show us on-panel that Sabo is training post-Dressrosa.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nessos (Feb 8, 2021)

We know for sure every member of the Pre TS Admiral Trio we're able to use at least CoA: Emission while it seems like Kaidou and BM only able to use CoA: Hardening and CoA: Imbuement.


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> These are easy to explain.
> 
> Doflamingo was a Shichibukai and an ally of the WG. Fujitora couldn't do anything against him because he had impunity. This is supported by the fact that Fujitora makes sure that Law isn't a Shichibukai anymore before attacking him in chapter 713. Kaido on the other hand is Doflamingo's business partner who has a reputation of not showing any mercy. He has no reason to care about his Shichibukai title and would've straight up killed Doflamingo for his failure.
> 
> ...





> Doflamingo was a Shichibukai and an ally of the WG. Fujitora couldn't do anything against him because he had impunity. This is supported by the fact that Fujitora makes sure that Law isn't a Shichibukai anymore before attacking him in chapter 713. Kaido on the other hand is Doflamingo's business partner who has a reputation of not showing any mercy. He has no reason to care about his Shichibukai title and would've straight up killed Doflamingo for his failure.



That does make sense to be honest. Doflamingo might've acted cocky because he knew Fujitora couldn't lay a finger on him due to his Sichibukai position.

I don't really agree Doflamingo was intimidated when confronted with Aokiji tho. I'll have to reread that part, but iirc he wasn't shown sweating or anything like that.  If he was intimidated why did he continue with his attack? That's sort of like taunting Aokiji to do something about it.



> We don't know the details of the Revos vs Admirals fight. A whole week passed so anything could've happened in that time frame. We've no confirmation of the circumstances surrounding Fujitora's bandages. What if Ryokugyu didn't get single scratch while they hit Fujitora due to hax abilities (e.g. Karasu)? Also, we have no idea how strong the commanders are. For all we know Karasu and Morley could be YC2 and YC3 level respectively while Sabo could be stronger than any Supernova currently on the rooftop considering Oda went through the effort to show us on-panel that Sabo is training post-Dressrosa.


Yep, we can only headcannon about it. The exact details are unknown.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> one statement mentions both characters and elicits a difference between them.
> the other one is a statement which only concerns a character and compares him to nobody else.
> The difference is clear to the unbiased eye, but to the unbiased eye only and therefore I do not feel the need to fight for convincing you.



*"Unbiased eye"

*

1 SBS is a *"stupid reason"* because it prioritizes a character that i don't like *"in a strength related goal"* while the other SBS is *"Oda's 100% honest opinion about powerlevels"*, the fact that it's a gag in the first place is ignored because it *"shows my favourite character to have an advantage."*


Definitely an unbiased eye

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> one statement mentions both characters and elicits a difference between them.
> the other one is a statement which only concerns a character and compares him to nobody else.
> The difference is clear to the unbiased eye, but to the unbiased eye only and therefore I do not feel the need to fight for convincing you.



The statement about Akainu compares him to everybody by pointing out how far he would go as a pirate. If it is true that Oda would be able to end One Piece in a year with a protagonist as strong as Akainu, and given that One Piece is a story is about becoming Pirate King, then the implication is that said protagonist would become the Pirate King _in a very short time. _This plainly implies that Akainu is pirate-king material strength-wise, and being pirate-king material means you can be compared to other people (remember Jimbei's "mere Yonkou".)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> The statement about Akainu compares him to everybody by pointing out how far he would go as a pirate. If it is that Oda would be able to end One Piece in a year with a protagonist as strong as Akainu, and given that One Piece is a story is about becoming Pirate King, then the implication is that said protagonist would become the Pirate King _in a very short time. _This plainly implies that Akainu is pirate-king material, and being pirate-king material means you can be compared to other people (remember Jimbei's "mere Yonkou".


That's only your interpretation. 
If it was Akainu in Luffy's place, with his power and as an MC ( which is the most important ), he'd become the pirate king in 1 year, which is understandable. Look How much Luffy's grown in 2 years. It's logical for Akainu to gather enough power and men in one year starting from that level.


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> That's only your interpretation.
> If it was Akainu in Luffy's place, with his power and as an MC ( which is the most important ), he'd become the pirate king in 1 year, which is understandable. Look How much Luffy's grown in 2 years. It's logical for Akainu to gather enough power and men in one year starting from that level.



I know it is my interpretation. But if my interpretation is correct, then you can use that statement about Akainu to compare him to other people. If you think it is a statement that compares him to nobody, then you must think that an "unbiased eye" would lead me to favour some other interpretation. Why should I favour some other interpretation?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> I know it is my interpretation. But if my interpretation is correct, then you can use that statement about Akainu to compare him to other people. If you think it is a statement that compares him to nobody, then you must think that an "unbiased eye" would lead me to favour some other interpretation. Why should I favour some other interpretation?


Because of the reasons I gave you. In 1 year he can grow a lot. In 2 years Luffy grew from being a noob to challenging a yonko ( not alone, but still )


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## Fujitora (Feb 8, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> excited to hear your opinions


Why cant they be equal like the story keeps putting them together. Why must one be stronger than the other? Are you overcompensating for something?


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Because of the reasons I gave you. In 1 year he can grow a lot. In 2 years Luffy grew from being a noob to challenging a yonko ( not alone, but still )



You did not give me any reasons for preferring your interpretation. You gave me your interpretation.
Between:
1. Oda could finish the story in a year because Akainu is strong enough to be Pirate King.
and
2. Oda could finish the story in a year because Akainu, though not strong enough to be Pirate King, has that big of a head start,
which should I believe if I were unbiased, and why?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> You did not give me any reasons for preferring your interpretation. You gave me your interpretation.
> Between:
> 1. Oda could finish the story in a year because Akainu is strong enough to be Pirate King.
> and
> ...


If he is strong enough to be PK, why would it take 1 year ?
What makes you think other people couldn't do it faster ?


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## MO (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> The statement about Akainu compares him to everybody by pointing out how far he would go as a pirate. If it is true that Oda would be able to end One Piece in a year with a protagonist as strong as Akainu, and given that One Piece is a story is about becoming Pirate King, then the implication is that said protagonist would become the Pirate King _in a very short time. _This plainly implies that Akainu is pirate-king material strength-wise, and being pirate-king material means you can be compared to other people (remember Jimbei's "mere Yonkou".)


if you're the MC. You're automatically pirate king material. It's your destiny to become pirate king essentially.  So no you can't be compared to others.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dellinger (Feb 8, 2021)

Oda outright placed Kaido above Akainu so I don't understand why you guys insist with the 1 year stuff.


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Oda outright placed Kaido above Akainu so I don't understand why you guys insist with the 1 year stuff.


Are we talking about that SBS again ? I read it. The joking manner with which the question was asked, and the joking manner with which it was answered eliminates all credibility, at least for me. I see it as nothing more than a gag. If the setting/question/answer were a bit more serious ... maybe, but Oda will never answer dead-on if character A is stronger than character B. That will spoils the readers.


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Are we talking about that SBS again ? I read it. The joking manner with which the question was asked, and the joking manner with which it was answered eliminates all credibility, at least for me. I see it as nothing more than a gag. If the setting/question/answer were a bit more serious ... maybe, *but Oda will never answer dead-on if character A is stronger than character B. That will spoils the readers*.


The guy definitely believes people know who the strongest is at the moment. He made sure of that by giving him lots of titles, lots of hype and he basically said it himself 2 times. The only reason he doesn't paint a wall with that written on it is because, imo he is preparing something bigger with Im.


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> If he is strong enough to be PK, why would it take 1 year ?
> What makes you think other people couldn't do it faster ?



You didn't answer my question.
Why should I prefer the second interpretation over the first interpretation?
As for your questions. 1. I assume it would take one year (between forty to fifty chapters) to draw the journey across the world with all the fights and challenges it entails, 2. I never said I think other people can't do it faster; I merely pointed out to you that there is an interpretation which lets you compare Akainu to other people, and by that interpretation, Akainu is one of the strongest people in One Piece, with better prospects than most of the current Yonkou.



MO said:


> if you're the MC. You're automatically pirate king material. It's your destiny to become pirate king essentially.  So no you can't be compared to others.



I guess no one this forum compares Luffy or Roger to other people?



Dellinger said:


> Oda outright placed Kaido above Akainu so I don't understand why you guys insist with the 1 year stuff.



No, he didn't. Oda has consistently found ways to cast doubt on Kaido's claim to be the strongest in the manga and in the SBS. He is "said to be" etc. Taking some other claim he made and pretending it confirms Kaido > anyone would be to ignore Oda's approach to Kaido's hype.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dellinger (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Are we talking about that SBS again ? I read it. The joking manner with which the question was asked, and the joking manner with which it was answered eliminates all credibility, at least for me. I see it as nothing more than a gag. If the setting/question/answer were a bit more serious ... maybe, but Oda will never answer dead-on if character A is stronger than character B. That will spoils the readers.


There would be no reason to mention Kaido at all. Instead he did. If he was joking about it then why did he place Kaido above Akainu ? Why the need to mention him ?


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## MO (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> I guess no one this forum compares Luffy or Roger to other people


Roger isn't the MC. So he is fine. Luffy MC privileges aren't counted when he is in matchups.


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## YellowCosmos (Feb 8, 2021)

MO said:


> Roger isn't the MC. So he is fine. Luffy MC privileges aren't counted when he is in matchups.



You're missing the point. If you think of Roger as a hypothetical main character of a spin-off series you don't suddenly lose the ability to compare him to other people in hypothetical match-ups, so I fail to see why thinking about Akainu as a hypothetical main character of One Piece makes us suddenly lose the ability to compare him to other people.

It sounds to me as if you're trying to say that Oda implied that Akainu would become PK not due to his strength but due to plot reasons, but that is not what Oda said.


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> There would be no reason to mention Kaido at all. Instead he did. If he was joking about it then why did he place Kaido above Akainu ? Why the need to mention him ?


Maybe because at the time of that SBS the manga was just going into the Wano arc which main antagonist is Kaido, i.e. he was a hot topic at that time, or maybe it was exactly when he was introduced. If not then I don't know.




Duhul10 said:


> The guy definitely believes people know who the strongest is at the moment. He made sure of that by giving him lots of titles, lots of hype and he basically said it himself 2 times. The only reason he doesn't paint a wall with that written on it is because, imo he is preparing something bigger with Im.



Yep, the hype is there: all these 1v1 bet on Kaido, WB saying to Ace that even Oden couldn't defeat that man, BM saying 'that thing' etc etc. Doflamingo shitting himself when hearing his name... The portrayal too is there: splitting the sky when clashing with BM, one-shotting Luffy before. We are on the same page.

But tell me why did Oda go out of his way and introduced him that way? Why not introduce him like WB or Mihawk? With a big, bold square presenting their title WSM or WSS. Why all that hear-say 'people say'. Oda did go out of his way to do that, and I wonder why.
The narrator presented him as immortal basically, which is massive hype. But he didn't give him any official title like the two aforementioned people.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> Maybe because at the time of that SBS the manga was just going into the Wano arc which main antagonist is Kaido, i.e. he was a hot topic at that time. If not then I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His introduction had a way better effect that way. It looked way better than a simple square with his name and a title. Oda wanted something special for Kaido and that is what he did. Also, there was no people say in Killer's mouth when he said WSP. That introduction alone basically puts him on #1 spot simply from the way it was written. "1 on 1 ALWAYS bet on Kaido" is a big hint, for current Kaido, a yonko in his prime.

People are hanging on that "people say" part with the hope that Oda is waiting to pull a sick twist on us and show that Akainu, or Shanks, or Kizaru, or you name it, is the actual WSC. That's not really the case, because that means Oda would basically have to sh*t on his work for some years where he built immense hype for Kaido. 2-3 people ( alive, at least ) will be stronger than Kaido by EoS, unless Oda pulls a "Kaguya" and you probably know whom I have in mind for those 3. Quote me when that moment comes.


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## Fujitora (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Look how he ignores that Akainu would be PK within a year from an SBS also. Seems like Oda holds him on a higher standart than mere Yonko. SBS legit indicates Akainu can become PK instead of any of the yonko, a fucking marine at that instead of a pirate lol


If he was the protagonist, you speak of him ignoring things yet you omit that very important piece of info.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> If he was the protagonist, you speak of him ignoring things yet you omit that very important piece of info.



Iam just applying Duhuls logic to SBS gags


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam just applying Duhuls logic to SBS gags


So now that PK thing is a gag ?   Just decide man


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## MO (Feb 8, 2021)

YellowCosmos said:


> You're missing the point. If you think of Roger as a hypothetical main character of a spin-off series you don't suddenly lose the ability to compare him to other people in hypothetical match-ups, so I fail to see why thinking about Akainu as a hypothetical main character of One Piece makes us suddenly lose the ability to compare him to other people.
> 
> It sounds to me as if you're trying to say that Oda implied that Akainu would become PK not due to his strength but due to plot reasons, but that is not what Oda said.


It is due to plot reasons. Oda saying it would take 1 year to become pk is due to strength but him being Pk itself is because he is the MC.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So now that PK thing is a gag ?   Just decide man



Where did i say iam applying your logic to a gag?

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> His introduction had a way better effect that way. It looked way better than a simple square with his name and a title. Oda wanted something special for Kaido and that is what he did. Also, there was no people say in Killer's mouth when he said WSP. That introduction alone basically puts him on #1 spot simply from the way it was written. "1 on 1 ALWAYS bet on Kaido" is a big hint, for current Kaido, a yonko in his prime.
> 
> People are hanging on that "people say" part with the hope that Oda is waiting to pull a sick twist on us and show that Akainu, or Shanks, or Kizaru, or you name it, is the actual WSC. That's not really the case, because that means Oda would basically have to sh*t on his work for some years where he built immense hype for Kaido. 2-3 people ( alive, at least ) will be stronger than Kaido by EoS, unless Oda pulls a "Kaguya" and you probably know whom I have in mind for those 3. Quote me when that moment comes.





> His introduction had a way better effect that way. It looked way better than a simple square with his name and a title. Oda wanted something special for Kaido and that is what he did. Also, there was no people say in Killer's mouth when he said WSP. That introduction alone basically puts him on #1 spot simply from the way it was written. "1 on 1 ALWAYS bet on Kaido" is a big hint, for current Kaido, a yonko in his prime.



I think he simply wanted to hype up the antagonist of the next arc. Something which he definitely achieved.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Fel1x (Feb 8, 2021)

C3 vs Beckman, Marco and... let's say King (because I still have faith in him) is already not a stomp for admirals. it will probably be mid-high diff for them. and it can be mid diff only because FM trio don't have experience as a team

so my answer about Yonko vs admirals is obvious


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> C3 vs Beckman, Marco and... let's say King (because I still have faith in him) is already not a stomp for admirals. it will probably be mid-high diff for them. and it can be mid diff only because FM trio don't have experience as a team
> 
> so my answer about Yonko vs admirals is obvious


Well, Marco and Vista were incapable of doing damage to Akainu because his haki is leagues above their haki. That argument alone is enough to suggest that Akainu can defeat any FM without much difficulty. 

edit - maybe only Beckman can push him a bit, but not by a lot.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> I think he simply wanted to hype up the antagonist of the next arc. Something which he definitely achieved.



Yea. Kaido isn't exactly an interesting character, neither is he welcome in Wano considering it's tied to bigger things than a mere Yonko like Oden and Roger's road to become the PK. Everything Oda has left is the powerlevel and everyone knows at this point that Kaido isn't the strongest just based on power creep and the doubt Oda left within the dragons hype and portrayal.


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## gogcho (Feb 8, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Yea. Kaido isn't exactly an interesting character, neither is he welcome in Wano considering it's tied to bigger things than a mere Yonko like Oden and Roger's road to become the PK. Everything Oda has left is the powerlevel and everyone knows at this point that Kaido isn't the strongest just based on power creep and the doubt Oda left withing his hype and portrayal.


What is the "power creep" argument? That the longer the manga lasts the more powerful the other non-defeated characters become ?


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## Duhul10 (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> What is the "power creep" argument? That the longer the manga lasts the more powerful the other non-defeated characters become ?


yeah, it's like a last line of defense. Poor Kizaru, he must be weaker than Caesar clown because his arc was preskip.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

gogcho said:


> What is the "power creep" argument? That the longer the manga lasts the more powerful the other non-defeated characters become ?



Simply that new antagonists will keep surpassing the previous ones. Sure there might be some circumstances where it doesn't look that way but those are mainly based on match-up disadvantage like enel for example.


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## TheWiggian (Feb 8, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> yeah, it's like a last line of defense. Poor Kizaru, he must be weaker than Caesar clown because his arc was preskip.



Last line of defense is desperately believing the final war will have someone else than the admirals as ultimate opponents of the battle while kaido will rot under the remains of onigashima at the bottom of the ocean like his ex captain

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sherlōck (Feb 8, 2021)

MO said:


> It is due to plot reasons. Oda saying it would take 1 year to become pk is due to strength but him being Pk itself is because he is the MC.


That's dishonest even by Meme fans standard

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Feb 9, 2021)

7 pages deep, still got it

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Turrin (Feb 9, 2021)

I think it depends on the Admiral and the Yonko.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

okay i hope this can be posted in the battle dome. if this is the wrong place I hope a mod can redirect me *Respectfully*

anyway i have seen a prevailing thought on this forum for years and that is The Yonko themselves Big Mom, Kaido, shanks, Black Beard are not only more powerful than the admirals. Not just that but the yonko are a whole tier above them in some cases. I disagree with this.

from what I have seen on display thus farm not only have the admirals and higher up marines been way more consistent in their powers and portrayal  than the yonkos thus far.

Lets start with marineford, whitebeard no matter what we think of his power at the time. had the strongest crew at the time and took the full force of the greatest pirate crew around at the time directly against the government  and his forced kind of got dominated. especially if you're looking at it objectively, whitebeard and his fleet had zero chance of saving ace or winning if luffy didn't show up. his aoe attacks like tilting the sea, no diffed. by aokiji who can manage whatever distortions wb manages as he can effectively freeze the entire body of water in the area. the island itself was never really in any danger of sinking as long as just aokiji was there. The encircling walls plan was executed PERFECTELY. in fact, if boroslino or akainu had did away with the ice foothold aokiji made earlier in that fight, wb and his folk would have never even made it to the plaza.  its because of luffy that he did. if kizaru would have joined in when akainu was raining magma down on everyone, there there would be no way for the pirates to counter and the world strongest pirate crew would have been murked. with little causalities on the marine side.

even back in marine ford we see people like marco who is in league with folks like Marshall d teech if you think the goresei know what their talking about. marco, though he was annoying and intercepted the admirals a few times, he wasn't really a problem for them, especially when you consider the problems he's giving king and queen just on his own. he didn't give kizaru or kuzan a percentage of that same drama. if you remember akainu went through all of the wb commanders when they tried to "protect luffy" and all but laughed off their haki as a "pain" or "nuisance" soon as the admirals got serious it was OVER  marco was incapacitated and his fruit was dealt with. kuzan broke diamond off with his ice... (jozu lost that arm people) and later akainu after talking a full rage wb to the face then washed up all 16 of his commanders like right after.

The marines are severely at at disadvantage when fighting on marineford. i know this is triggering for some of you. However, it's facts that the marines have to protect the island of marine ford itself . knowing that it makes further sense why you wuld want to keep whitbeard from making landfall especially with his powers and its flat out stated over and over that akainu was trying to mitigate wb's destruction. its later bought up by sengoku that he wasn't finna let bb do anything to marineford. i mean. garp, sengoku, and shiki destroyed half the place on their own. that's only 3 people. that fact in of itself should go to stress how much restraint the marines have to use while on home base. Hell kaido didnt even want to fight oden at HIS New castle as he knew a fight there would likely destroy his new place. if any of those 3 logias had gone all out if punk hazard is any indication then i shudder to think what would have became of wb's crew.. shanks came in and stopped the war and that's good, looks cool. shanks even said if anyone wants to fight they could fight him. cool moment. badass line.... that the admirals completely ignored and got back to what they were doing and continued to attack luffy like shanks wasn't there. if  sengoku would have not stopped the war AND UNDERTAND THIS, SENGOKU STOPPED THE WAR. at shank's suggestion. Yet the marines had ACOMPLISHED their goals.  (cc: KOBY) whitebeard the goat was dead as was ace.  if that fight would have went on. with shanks there i do not see shanks or his crew winning. lol. not at all.

the overhype of the pirates. i love them too. i really, really do, however, i dont share the same implicit biased a lot of us on here do.  esp when compared to the marines. here we are in the land of wano and ive seen kaido be cut and hurt by luffy, zoro, killer, kidd and law.... I've never seen kizaru hurt outside from a scratch he got after raylegh sneak attacked him.... the only damage I've seen akainu take was from a sneak attack an enraged whitebeard hit him with and honestly id say whitebeard left that sneak attack a lot worse off than wb with a new hole in his chest and half his face blown off... then akainu went on to not get hit by anyone else at least not substantially.  sure shanks had blackbeard shook and he didn't want to fight the crew, yeah but.... he and his whole squad ran from big akainu who was SOLO  when he went after them. before you ask why bb was down to fight sengoku? Bb's goal was to destroy the island itself and he had the power to *not beat sengoku* but to destroy the ISLAND  meaning he was using all of his force as opposed to sengoku who is trying to prevent and mitigate damage. its like asking usopp to fight while hes also trying to do repairs to the merry.  i do not see any of the original admirals taking damage from these supernova that are fighting kaido and big  mom now, heck they cant even really damage them yet, so to say someone like cutrrent luffy has surpassed his grandfather even if post marineford garp is "featless" portryal alone and feats shown up till this point imo show that someone like currebt luffy still had a way to go. especially if he needs a whole team to not even damage kaido or bm,

the pirates RUN FROM the marines. sure we can act like that's just because of their organization being so vast, yet id wager its because they are individually so strong. our beloved doofy was still avoiding tsuru till this day. being a pirate going against someone like kizaru kuzan akainu on sea is probably a DEATH SETENCE for any pirate because of their powers or if you think back to the days of old. garp was a monster to pirates that makes sense imagine having to face garps move set as a pirate, idc who it is if garp is like coby nd decides to jump in the water and just torpedo your ship, himself what are you to do?? its probably better to avoid,

on a one on one level the upper marines are really consistent and in the story take little to no losses. especially if compared to their emperor counterparts who are a buncha powerful frauds, big mom claims to be so dreadful meanwhile she hasnt killed anyone whose ever invaded her island from roger down to luffy. i think she like her son katakuri learned the ways of the world nd decided to use her rep  to protect her FAMILY even though she likely just wants to eat nd for people to be happy. kaido is just flat out not impressive for me. yeah hes strong ut hes been defeated mutiple times on record and in a fight aganist the big dog marines i dont think his ephitet applies at all. i think the admirals and high up old heads can still tango with him old heads like garp and sengoku i bet could pull a w at HIGH COST but i suspect people like the origonal c3 to just win after a hard fought battle, straight up if the pirates could do something i think they would i think the number of fodder we see on the marine side would make u wonder why the pirates havent taken over already. i dont think its just numbers i think the navy has stronger forces in more of an abundance. though i want to know how and why you say the yonko are above the admirals and marine legends even though they havent (in  my estimation especially lived up to the same standard as the marines. )

lets discuss


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

_The Yonko aren't on a different ballpark from the Admirals. 

I don't know what tiers people have, but it's obvious that everyone has their own power levels and opinions. 

The Admirals have been portrayed to be nigh equal to each other, with a 10 day fight between 2 of them for reference. Meanwhile, the Yonko have also been portrayed as equal to one another, having stalemated each other for years. There's also how every time they clash, the terms of engagement are depicted as absolutely equal with them splitting the skies. 

I think that as close as they are, some Yonko are stronger than others, while some Admirals are stronger than their colleagues. You have the likely strongest Yonko, such as Whitebeard and Shanks. You have Kaido & Big Mom who would give the former pair extreme diff, but still haven't been depicted in the same light. You've got Akainu who is the strongest Admiral, and Aokiji, who was depicted as closest to him. Kizaru could give either one of them extreme diff, but he doesn't have their plot relevance. Aokiji could also likely give any of the current Yonko a run for their money. He and Akainu have the best case for being able to beat some of them, and Kizaru was their equal.

The strongest Emperor can be equal to or slightly above the strongest Admiral, while the weakest Emperor would also likely be above the weakest Admiral. Overall, as a collective buffer towards each other, the Yonko & Admirals are extremely close to each other, but I do think the Yonko have an edge against most in a 1v1. _

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Pirate King=Fleet Admiral
Yonkou=Admiral

Roughly, Garp wasn't the Fleet Admiral but he was the strongest Marine. Prime WB wasn't the Pirate King but he had the WSM title. Point is PK lvl characters and Fleet Admiral lvl characters are a small tier above Yonkou and Admiral lvl characters. 

Yonkou and Admiral fights should all be extreme diff. Yonks win some match ups, Admirals win some too. Although currently I give the edge to the Admirals if we take into account the PK and FA tier. Because the Pirates don't have a Pirate King yet, while the Admirals have the WSM Akainu. Still waiting on PK Luffy.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## IHateAnnoyingJerks (Mar 27, 2021)

At least the new admirals aren't on Yonko level, I can't see Kaido and Big Mom in bandages facing 4 YC tier fighters, unless you sincerely believe all four of them are YC1 level.  I personally think rooftop 5 > 4 revolutionaries.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Mar 27, 2021)

Marines and Pirates fundamentally have duality.

Yonkou are the 4 strongest Pirates.

Admirals are the strongest Marines.

They are peers through and through.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trance (Mar 27, 2021)

*sees the op*

holy mother of tldr 

anyway, i personally subscribe to the idea some admirals can beat some yonko and vice versa

come the marines/govt arc, we should finally see where they stand with any and all doubts laid to rest (they wont)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> _The Yonko aren't on a different ballpark from the Admirals.
> 
> I don't know what tiers people have, but it's obvious that everyone has their own power levels and opinions.
> 
> ...


i respect that opinion. i just haven't seen anything from the yonko that suggest that they would pull out that w against any admiral in a fair one on one fight.  while i have no problem in seeing how Fuji, aokiji, kuzan, kizaru, akainu, sengoku Garp and even old guy kong. can beat any of the yonko 

KUZAN
-Big Mom. in this fight big  mom has one m ajor disadvantage in speed. there is also a stamina problem here that is more likely to effect big mom than it is to effect aokiji. I'm curious what Prometheus can do to aokiji especially in such cool temperatures . we have an aoe issue here for big mom that aokiji just doesn't have. attacks she's shown that have worked on the amateurs on the roof top arent even likely to hit kuzan... and even if they did you think he's taking that hit worse than killer? no way. hitting kuzan with as haki based swod slash is going to be nigh impossible. the man has shown observation a kin to what katakuri would only display later where he moved hid organs or turned them to ice when wb attacked him at pointblank nd was about to impale the old man. sure big mom skin is supposedly -un breakable but... jozu's arm  was diamond. it broke off... so... aokiji goes deep. if she grabs him, he's not marco, thats going to cost her. am arm? a leg? Prometheus is not a thing as aokiji has proven that he can change the temperature of a place will big moms fire be able to stay lit. if there's little heat for him to thrive off? and i haven't even talked about his awakening. 


-Blackbeard he is an interesting one isn't he. as i have already see what the gura gura can do to aokiji and.... yeah nope, black beards best bet would of course be grabbing hold of aokiji, stopping his powers, and hitting him all out gura gura quake. yet there's a problem here. can bb pull in aokiji? if ace had the common sense to throw fire spears at black beard then he'd likely have to block a lot of ice partisans. if he gets hit by that i think its doing a lot more damage than what ace's fire lances did...  also as demonstrated over and over aokijis ice is instant. it seemingly freezes things deeply depending on how serious he is. if aokiji froze robin the way he froze the sea when law grabbed luffy, robin would be dead. he could likely deep freeze Blackbeard before bb ever gets his hands and df on him. and yeah if frozen bb can break out but can he keep breaking out and avoiding the attack that'd likely be coming right at black beard more prone to damage body. also aokiji can break himself apart before blackbeard touches him, same way that he avoided whitebeards long ranged vibration attack. speed and things like training do count the marines do train the pirates seemingly except for luffy likely dont. 

-Kaido ok kaido doesn't have much on the original admirals. like even if he made an island fly and dropped it its not going to do much to  aokiji...  cant drop aokiji in water. kaidos dragon form isn't going to do it. nor is his base form, his "speed" is going to go down because you cant really rush aokiji with a thunder bagua. might rip his own leg off. because aokiji is going to activate ice age/time and counter attack. 


-Luffy - i mean ... we all know luffys not on this level yet, right? 
-Shanks  hope he's ice proof and can fight for ten days. i hope his sword dosent get frozen to his hand , or the ground, i hope he can do something that makes up for the terribly unfair aoe here. sure mihawk cut aokijis ice but thats because it was in the form of a standing frozen wave. but i bet itd be hard to block ice projectiles while keeping your legs off the ground long enough for aojiki not to freeze you in place,  maybe shanks conquers haki can scare the ice? lol but i dont see it ill get back to it tomorrow sorry for any typos im tired 


i was going to do this for every mentioned marine but i am tired. lol my point being i see the admirals and garp as more powerful than our beloved yonko.


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## Daddy Masterson (Mar 27, 2021)

The concept of balance between the great three powers wouldn't exist if the Yonko were significantly stronger than the admirals or vice versa. They're both top tiers.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

trance said:


> *sees the op*
> 
> holy mother of tldr
> 
> ...


hey, please never feel pressure to read or comment on anything I post. 

anyway, i personally  agree. that come the marine arc, we will see what the marines are made of for real.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Friendly 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Daddy Masterson said:


> The concept of balance between the great three powers wouldn't exist if the Yonko were significantly stronger than the admirals or vice versa. They're both top tiers.


lol just by the presence of im sama i do not think the powers have ever been truly equal. especially since the four emperor thing seems like a fairly new thing that the world government more allows than fears. sure they fear their team up but they seem pretty confident in themselves


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

In order to maintain a world balance, a yonko needs to be stronger than an admiral. This and the fact that Yonkos have the most hype, greatest portrayal and best feats.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> In order to maintain a world balance, a yonko needs to be stronger than an admiral. This and the fact that Yonkos have the most hype, greatest portrayal and best feats.


that makes absolutely NO sense. the yonkos keep each other and other pirates in check not the world government, the government chases pirates they dont chase marines. as robin told us already. 

yonk do not have the best hype. none of them has the hype that people like garp get. wb is called the world strongest man and was all but mid diffed by the admirals at marine ford. and best feats ? to each his own i guess, i do not see it. i think its just implicit bias. i mean we've already seen what most of the emperors can do. vs only scratching the surface of the admirals and what they can do. and considering how none of the emperors ever train vs the marines who, obviously do... yeah I'm going with the marines. esp in pure one on one fights

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

I respect your opinion too


nmwn93 said:


> i respect that opinion. i just haven't seen anything from the yonko that suggest that they would pull out that w against any admiral in a fair one on one fight.  while i have no problem in seeing how Fuji, aokiji, kuzan, kizaru, akainu, sengoku Garp and even old guy kong. can beat any of the yonko


but I disagree. 


nmwn93 said:


> KUZAN
> -Big Mom. in this fight big  mom has one m ajor disadvantage in speed. there is also a stamina problem here that is more likely to effect big mom than it is to effect aokiji. I'm curious what Prometheus can do to aokiji especially in such cool temperatures . we have an aoe issue here for big mom that aokiji just doesn't have. attacks she's shown that have worked on the amateurs on the roof top arent even likely to hit kuzan... and even if they did you think he's taking that hit worse than killer? no way. hitting kuzan with as haki based swod slash is going to be nigh impossible. the man has shown observation a kin to what katakuri would only display later where he moved hid organs or turned them to ice when wb attacked him at pointblank nd was about to impale the old man. sure big mom skin is supposedly -un breakable but... jozu's arm  was diamond. it broke off... so... aokiji goes deep. if she grabs him, he's not marco, thats going to cost her. am arm? a leg? Prometheus is not a thing as aokiji has proven that he can change the temperature of a place will big moms fire be able to stay lit. if there's little heat for him to thrive off? and i haven't even talked about his awakening.


It's best not to put too much weight into what we've seen from the Rooftop now. Have a feeling Big Mom still hasn't really been pushed yet. She's barely been grazed. Offense and speed are legit concerns, but she could keep up with Kaido just fine. 

I can see Aokiji winning perhaps, and like I said in my previous post, I do view him as one of the stronger Admirals. However, it's still gonna take extreme diff. 


nmwn93 said:


> -Blackbeard he is an interesting one isn't he. as i have already see what the gura gura can do to aokiji and.... yeah nope, black beards best bet would of course be grabbing hold of aokiji, stopping his powers, and hitting him all out gura gura quake. yet there's a problem here. can bb pull in aokiji? if ace had the common sense to throw fire spears at black beard then he'd likely have to block a lot of ice partisans. if he gets hit by that i think its doing a lot more damage than what ace's fire lances did...  also as demonstrated over and over aokijis ice is instant. it seemingly freezes things deeply depending on how serious he is. if aokiji froze robin the way he froze the sea when law grabbed luffy, robin would be dead. he could likely deep freeze Blackbeard before bb ever gets his hands and df on him. and yeah if frozen bb can break out but can he keep breaking out and avoiding the attack that'd likely be coming right at black beard more prone to damage body. also aokiji can break himself apart before blackbeard touches him, same way that he avoided whitebeards long ranged vibration attack. speed and things like training do count the marines do train the pirates seemingly except for luffy likely dont.


This is all speculation of how they would match up. What you're saying isn't invalid per se, but we don't know to what extent Blackbeard has mastered both abilities. If he's inherited Whitebeard's territories and abilities, then it reasons that he's going to be the strongest pirate in the series at some point. As a potential final villain, he's definitely going to be able to tag Aokiji.


nmwn93 said:


> -Shanks  hope he's ice proof and can fight for ten days. i hope his sword dosent get frozen to his hand , or the ground, i hope he can do something that makes up for the terribly unfair aoe here. sure mihawk cut aokijis ice but thats because it was in the form of a standing frozen wave. but i bet itd be hard to block ice projectiles while keeping your legs off the ground long enough for aojiki not to freeze you in place,  maybe shanks conquers haki can scare the ice? lol but i dont see it ill get back to it tomorrow sorry for any typos im tired


Shanks doesn't need to fight for 10 days if he's stronger than Aokiji. The man is a certified Haki goat and was trained by the Dark King while serving as apprentice to the Pirate King. If his master could fight on even grounds with Kizaru in his old age, then Shanks can definitely fight Aokiji. This shouldn't even be a question. 



nmwn93 said:


> i was going to do this for every mentioned marine but i am tired. lol my point being i see the admirals and garp as more powerful than our beloved yonko.



Like I said, I respect your opinion. But I really don't think that the admirals are the strongest characters in the series. This is still a manga about pirates. Why would the strongest marines in the world be above all of the strongest pirates? Also, Garp is past his prime.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> that makes absolutely NO sense. the yonkos keep each other and other pirates in check not the world government, the government chases pirates they dont chase marines. as robin told us already.
> 
> yonk do not have the best hype. none of them has the hype that people like garp get. wb is called the world strongest man and was all but mid diffed by the admirals at marine ford. and best feats ? to each his own i guess, i do not see it. i think its just implicit bias. i mean we've already seen what most of the emperors can do. vs only scratching the surface of the admirals and what they can do. and considering how none of the emperors ever train vs the marines who, obviously do... yeah I'm going with the marines. esp in pure one on one fights


There is a balance between all powers, yet the yonko are not all in alliances. This is how the balance is maintained. If all yonko formed an alliance, marines would definitely lose.

Yonko do have the best hype. WSM, WSP, WSC, Above all other characters ( in the sbs ). Admirals get stalemated by commanders, while the likes of BM are said to be capable of destroying their entire crew and Kaido oneshots YC1's. Aokiji who is nigh equal to Akainu needed a distraction against Jozu, who is a YC2 who actually had a bad showing against Doflamingo. Kizaru went into a stalemate with an old, rusty Rayleigh, who is a good deal below yonko level. We are not "scratching the surface" of what admirals can do   we know they are all almost perfectly equal ( at least the C3) and we know that they have hard times against commanders. We actually see their limitations against the commanders and Rayleigh.

The best feat of an admiral is injuring Deadbeard ( but still losing in the process ), the weakest form a yonko could possibly take and a mere shadow of his former self. Remember that.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> In order to maintain a world balance, a yonko needs to be stronger than an admiral. This and the fact that Yonkos have the most hype, greatest portrayal and best feats.


Yonkou protrayal been pretty shit recently. They have not lived up to the hype so far. And with the Admirals being saved for after atleast Fish and Meme, they are clearly on the same lvl as the Yonkou.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> *Yonkou protrayal been pretty shit recently*. They have not lived up to the hype so far. And with the Admirals being saved for after atleast Fish and Meme, they are clearly on the same lvl as the Yonkou.


Huh?   the RT5 are close to EoS and they can barely do shit to the 2 yonko and need to get one out of the picture. We also know for a fact now that they only let them attack them and they repel them. The yonko are not on the offensive.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Huh?   the RT5 are close to EoS and they can barely do shit to the 2 yonko and need to get one out of the picture. We also know for a fact now that they only let them attack them and they repel them. The yonko are not on the offensive.


I promise you, if Akainu and Kizaru were in the place of the 2 Yonkou, and had the same performance so far, you Yonkou fans would be roasting them for not being able to take down some YC1-2 lvl characters. The showing has not been impressive so far, that doesn't mean that it can't change as the fight progresses.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> I promise you, if Akainu and Kizaru were in the place of the 2 Yonkou, and had the same performance so far, you Yonkou fans would be roasting them for not being able to take down *some YC1-2 lvl characters*. The showing has not been impressive so far, that doesn't mean that it can't change as the fight progresses.


all are above yc1 level at this point.
Admirals can get stalemated by a single commander (see marco, Jozu, old rusty rayleigh ). The yonko are fighting 5 people above commander level, one being the MC, one having teleportation hax and another one having the only sword that ever cut Kaido.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> There is a balance between all powers, yet the yonko are not all in alliances. This is how the balance is maintained. If all yonko formed an alliance, marines would definitely lose.
> 
> Yonko do have the best hype. WSM, WSP, WSC, Above all other characters ( in the sbs ). Admirals get stalemated by commanders, while the likes of BM are said to be capable of destroying their entire crew and Kaido oneshots YC1's. Aokiji who is nigh equal to Akainu needed a distraction against Jozu, who is a YC2 who actually had a bad showing against Doflamingo. Kizaru went into a stalemate with an old, rusty Rayleigh, who is a good deal below yonko level. We are not "scratching the surface" of what admirals can do   we know they are all almost perfectly equal ( at least the C3) and we know that they have hard times against commanders. We actually see their limitations against the commanders and Rayleigh.
> 
> The best feat of an admiral is injuring Deadbeard ( but still losing in the process ), the weakest form a yonko could possibly take and a mere shadow of his former self. Remember that.


lol. " Kizaru went into a stalemate with an old, rusty Rayleigh," you sure that was a stalemate? because I remember kizaru standing on wb's weapon. wb whos more powerful than ray.  this "stalemate" you're talking about has a big asterisk around it . like vista "stalemating Mihawk"


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> all are above yc1 level at this point.
> Admirals can get stalemated by a single commander (see marco, Jozu, old rusty rayleigh ). The yonko are fighting 5 people above commander level, one being the MC, one having teleportation hax and another one having the only sword that ever cut Kaido.


Who's taking Killer over Katakuri? People still have Katakuri over Zoro as well. Kidd has had the worst showing thus far. Luffy is the only 1 of the R5 that can confidently be put above Katakuri atm.

And if by stalemated, you mean stalled for a few panels, then Marco already did that to Big Mom. If we really want to use the worst possible feats, then we gotta call Franky, Jinbe and Robin lmao.

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Who's taking Killer over Katakuri? People still have Katakuri over Zoro as well. Kidd has had the worst showing thus far. Luffy is the only 1 of the R5 that can confidently be put above Katakuri atm.
> 
> And if by stalemated, you mean stalled for a few panels, then Marco already did that to Big Mom. If we really want to use the worst possible feats, then we gotta call Franky, Jinbe and Robin lmao.


you see what im saying. lol they just say things. marco "stalemated" who?? jozu lost an arm, old rusty ray intercepted kizaru, who resigned himself to deal with ray as his subordinates were enough to handle it. heck ray was breathing hard by the end not kizaru. a yonko commander has never EVEER ON PANEL stalemated an admiral. NEVER !!!!! in order to stale mate you and your opponent have to be in the same position. losing the fight and the admiral moing on is not a stalemate. its yonko commanders being annoying then being dealt with.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Who's taking Killer over Katakuri? People still have Katakuri over Zoro as well. Kidd has had the worst showing thus far. Luffy is the only 1 of the R5 that can confidently be put above Katakuri atm.
> 
> And if by stalemated, you mean stalled for a few panels, then Marco already did that to Big Mom. If we really want to use the worst possible feats, then we gotta call Franky, Jinbe and Robin lmao.


Featwise, resisting in a battle against 2 yonko is something above Katakuri's paygrade. An individual above him couldn't hurt Kaido and got oneshotted by him. Killer managed to bypass the scales, something Katakuri is not capable of doing. The battle on the Roof is something above what we've seen from the SNs so far. The progress is visible and elicited. 
Katakuri over Zoro ? No, not at this point... Kid has a bad showing but he is still there and still resisting.
Marco never stalemated BM. He only bypassed prometheus and then lost in cqc. That was BM in a hurry, who also ignored everyone else in her way afterwards. She also paid a support role in that skirmish as per Pero's own words.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> you see what im saying. lol they just say things. marco stalemated who?? jozu lost an arm, old rust way intercepted kizaru who resigned himself to deal with ray as his subordinates were enough to handle it. heck ray was breathing hard by the end not kizaru. a yonko commander *has never EVEER ON PANEL stalemated an admiral. NEVER !!!!!* in order to stale mate you and your opponent have to be in the same position. losing the fight and the admiral moing on is not a stalemate. its yonko commanders being annoying then being dealt with.


Your tantrums thrown around here do not mean a thing. We do know for a fact that the commanders only lost in their respective battles against the admirals after distractions. We also know for a fact that Kizaru could not get past Rayleigh and was the only one to lose blood from their fight.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Featwise, resisting in a battle against 2 yonko is something above Katakuri's paygrade. An individual above him couldn't hurt Kaido and got oneshotted by him. Killer managed to bypass the scales, something Katakuri is not capable of doing. The battle on the Roof is something above what we've seen from the SNs so far. The progress is visible and elicited.
> Katakuri over Zoro ? No, not at this point... Kid has a bad showing but he is still there and still resisting.
> Marco never stalemated BM. He only bypassed prometheus and then lost in cqc. That was BM in a hurry, who also ignored everyone else in her way afterwards. She also paid a support role in that skirmish as per Pero's own words.


how is it above katas pay grade? what proof do u have of that. especially when katakuri had to overly injure himself for him to bring himself DOWN to luffys level.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> how is it above katas pay grade? what proof do u have of that. especially when katakuri had to *overly injure* himself for him to bring himself DOWN to luffys level.


after Luffy was cheapshotted  


As for why it's above his paygrade ?
Because Katakuri was hopeless when BM went crazy and knew he would lose even if he had the entirety of the BM pirates with him. Because strengthwise he was getting overwhelmed by WCI G4 Luffy, who was below Wano G4 Luffy, who was shit for Kaido. And so on, and so forth.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Featwise, resisting in a battle against 2 yonko is something above Katakuri's paygrade. An individual above him couldn't hurt Kaido and got oneshotted by him. Killer managed to bypass the scales, something Katakuri is not capable of doing. The battle on the Roof is something above what we've seen from the SNs so far. The progress is visible and elicited.
> Katakuri over Zoro ? No, not at this point... Kid has a bad showing but he is still there and still resisting.
> Marco never stalemated BM. He only bypassed prometheus and then lost in cqc. That was BM in a hurry, who also ignored everyone else in her way afterwards. She also paid a support role in that skirmish as per Pero's own words.


Resisting a battle against 2 Yonkou is only above Katakuris pay grade if...you're overrating the Yonkou and placing them on this pedestal you've made for them that places them above the Admirals. Also, everybody should know by now that Kaido one shotting Luffy was an outlier. You really think that Killer was just always stronger than Luffy until he has his recent training? Lmao thats literally insane. But if we want to use outliers then I guess we really will be using the Robin rolling Big Mom away feat.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Your tantrums thrown around here do not mean a thing. We do know for a fact that the commanders only lost in their respective battles against the admirals after distractions. We also know for a fact that Kizaru could not get past Rayleigh and was the only one to lose blood from their fight.


lol this isnt a tantrum. im dealing in fact. fact is they lost. badly, to each admiral. then, akainu ran through all the commanders by himself. its not stated that kizaru couldnt get past ray, kizaru bemoans the hold up then says its all good, his subordinates can handle it. a stalemate is announced at the end of a fight. how is it a stalemate if you lose like jozu and marco and the other wb commanders ???? explain the logic in that please...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Resisting a battle against 2 Yonkou is only above Katakuris pay grade if...you're overrating the Yonkou and placing them on this pedestal you've made for them that places them above the Admirals. *Also, everybody should know by now that Kaido one shotting Luffy was an outlier*. You really think that Killer was just always stronger than Luffy until he has his recent training? Lmao thats literally insane. But if we want to use outliers then I guess we really will be using the Robin rolling Big Mom away feat.


It's an outlier only if you want it to be an outlier. It has never been denied as a feat in any way. It's just a feat that does not fit your narrative so you need to call it an outlier. Also it is very plausible that current killer is above pre udon Luffy. Is there something to deny that ?


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> after Luffy was cheapshotted
> 
> 
> As for why it's above his paygrade ?
> Because Katakuri was hopeless when BM went crazy and knew he would lose even if he had the entirety of the BM pirates with him. Because strengthwise he was getting overwhelmed by WCI G4 Luffy, who was below Wano G4 Luffy, who was shit for Kaido. And so on, and so forth.


right. and on top of that... the person you're talking about is katakuris MOTHER hard for any kid to really raise their hand aganist their mom, thats on top of him likely not being strong enough to stop her. but again, context. that is their mother. so fighting / stopping her in any sort of violent way is probably not an option... and kata was over whelmed? wow because if i remember the end of that fight i remember kata standing much stronger,  than luffy.  kata then decided, i repeat decided, to fall back down, i digress. No yonko commander has ever stalemated an admiral. ever.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> It's an outlier only if you want it to be an outlier. It has never been denied as a feat in any way. It's just a feat that does not fit your narrative so you need to call it an outlier. Also it is very plausible that current killer is above pre udon Luffy. Is there something to deny that ?


So Robin manhandling Big Mom is not an outlier?


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> lol this isnt a tantrum. im dealing in fact. fact is the lost. badly. to each admiral then akainu ran through all the commanders by himself. its not stated that kizaru couldnt get past ray, kizaru bemoans the hold up then says its all good his subordinates can handle it. *a stalemate is announced at the end of a fight. how is it a stalemate if you lose ???? explain the logic in that please*...


I like the fact that you ignore the way they won as if it doesn't matter   you're a funny one.  
also lol'd at the bolded. What is this? a boxing match ?



nmwn93 said:


> right. and on top of that... the person you're talking about is katakuris MOTHER hard for any kid to really raise their hand aganist their mom, thats on top of him likely not being strong enough to stop her. but again, context. that is their mother. *so fighting / stopping her in any sort of violent way is probably not an option*... and kata was over whelmed? wow because if i remember the edn of that fight i remember kata standing much stonger seemingly than luffy before kata then decided, i repeat decided, to fall back dow, i digress. No yonko commander has ever stalemated an admiral. that's a falsity.


the bolded has never been implied. We do know for a fact that BM does not hesitate to kill her children and that the likes of Perospero are eager to become captain. The bm pirates are also very ruthless. In order to save their lives, they'd even f*ck Momma.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So Robin manhandling Big Mom is not an outlier?


No, as they were not even in a fight and BM wasn't even considering them a worthy enemy. All they did was move BM from here to there. All this was possible due to the nature of Robin's fruit.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> the bolded has never been implied. We do know for a fact that BM does not hesitate to kill her children and that the likes of Perospero are eager to become captain. The bm pirates are also very ruthless. In order to save their lives, they'd even f*ck Momma.


its not said. true. its shown. literally katas whole thing is to protect his family.  bm being  dumb when she rages is one thing , but, the bm pirates care about their mother and that much is obvious

Reactions: Neutral 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> No, as they were not even in a fight and BM wasn't even considering them a worthy enemy. All they did was move BM from here to there. All this was possible due to the nature of Robin's fruit.


You do not understand how much stronger you have to be than somebody to literally roll them away like that. Your headcanon is telling you that Big Mom just let herself be thrown away??? Lmao she clearly would of attempted to resist after getting caught up.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> *You do not understand how much stronger you have to be than somebody to literally roll them away like that*. Your headcanon is telling you that Big Mom just let herself be thrown away??? Lmao she clearly would of attempted to resist after getting caught up.


No, you do not. Not if they are taken by surprise.
Is doflamingo much stronger than Jozu ( the guy who stalemated Aokiji ), because the guy could not escape Parasite ?


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## Dunno (Mar 27, 2021)

IHateAnnoyingJerks said:


> At least the new admirals aren't on Yonko level,* I can't see* Kaido and* Big Mom in bandages facing 4 YC tier fighters*, unless you sincerely believe all four of them are YC1 level.  I personally think rooftop 5 > 4 revolutionaries.



Big Mom literally ended up with brain damage after fighting one YC level opponent, and ended up in chains after fighting another. She has lost to a single YC level opponent twice in the manga. Not to four, to one.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Big Mom literally ended up with brain damage after fighting one YC level opponent, and ended up in chains after fighting another. She has lost to a single YC level opponent twice in the manga. Not to four, to one.


The circus is back in town


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> No, you do not. Not if they are taken by surprise.
> Is doflamingo much stronger than Jozu ( the guy who stalemated Aokiji ), because the guy could not escape Parasite ?


She was taken by surprise for what? The 1st roll? How about the dozens of rolls after that? Unless her reaction time is just that shit lmao, but then she wouldn't be able to keep up in her fights. Robin is literally just using her arms to push and pull her down, and Big Mom couldn't resist. Plain and simple. Robins DF works nothing like Doffys.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dunno (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The circus is back in town


I agree that it's always fun to see people ignore events that literally happened in the manga to push their narrative.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> She was taken by surprise for what? The 1st roll? How about the dozens of rolls after that? Unless her reaction time is just that shit lmao, but then she wouldn't be able to keep up in her fights. Robin is literally just using her arms to push and pull her down, and Big Mom couldn't resist. Plain and simple. Robins DF works nothing like Doffys.


The 1st roll followed by continous rolls with BM having nothing to hold herself to. So is Doffy much stronger than Jozu? Yes or No ? And here BM was not overpowered, as in the other situation, just taken by surprise. Robin had to move her fast so that the element of surprise maintains it's worth.


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The 1st roll followed by continous rolls with BM having nothing to hold herself to. So is Doffy much stronger than Jozu? Yes or No ? And here BM was not overpowered, as in the other situation, just taken by surprise. Robin had to move her fast so that the element of surprise maintains it's worth.


So a Yonkou is so weak that they cant stop themself from rolling down? I'm a normal Human, and I can stop myself from rolling down a not very steep hill lmao. Is Big Mom now regular Human lvl???? And once again you're somehow trying to compare Parasite to Robins arms lmao. I'll answer your question if you can actually tell me how parasite works, because I dont think you can, atleast without searching it up first. Big Mom was literally cursing at them while being overpowered and rolled away LMAO. She 100% had enough time to react and stop herself from rolling, but she SIMPLY COULDN'T because Robin OVERPOWERED her. Unless you want to admit that its a outlier, but you clearly arent mature enough to ever concede in a debate :^)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> So a Yonkou is so weak that they cant stop themself from rolling down? I'm a normal Human, and I can stop myself from rolling down a not very steep hill lmao. Is Big Mom now regular Human lvl???? And once again you're somehow trying to compare Parasite to Robins arms lmao. I'll answer your question if you can actually tell me how parasite works, because I dont think you can, atleast without searching it up first. Big Mom was literally cursing at them while being overpowered and rolled away LMAO. She 100% had enough time to react and stop herself from rolling, but she SIMPLY COULDN'T because Robin OVERPOWERED her. Unless you want to admit that its a outlier, but you clearly arent mature enough to ever concede in a debate :^)


Dude, you've lost your mind I'm going to stop this at this point. You're the first individual to claim that Robin actually overpowered BM because she rolled her (something that did not affect BM in any way or form ). This is Wiggian and Dunno level in yonko hate.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Dude, you've lost your mind I'm going to stop this at this point. You're the first individual to claim that Robin actually overpowered BM because she rolled her (something that did not affect BM in any way or form ). This is Wiggian and Dunno level in yonko hate.


You completely missed my point LMAO. No wonder your comprehension of the One Piece manga isn't very good.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> You completely missed my point LMAO. *No wonder your comprehension of the One Piece manga isn't very good*.


Says the guy who actually replied to me with a "Robin OVERPOWERED BM or it's an outlier so that would mean that Kaido vs Luffy is also an outlier because if one is an outlier in my head the other one must be as well".  Dude, get some rest, go have a snickers or someting.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ClannadFan (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Says the guy who actually replied to me with a "Robin OVERPOWERED BM or it's an outlier so that would mean that Kaido vs Luffy is also an outlier because if one is an outlier in my head the other one must be as well".  Dude, get some rest, go have a snickers or someting.


Lmao I'm done, if I keep going its gonna feel like I'm bullying you. Keep your chin up kid, don't let people online get to you :^)


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

ClannadFan said:


> Lmao I'm done, if I keep going its gonna feel *like I'm bullying you*. Keep your chin up kid, don't let people online get to you :^)


LoL, you bullying me  by saying Robin overpowered a yonko and by comparing what you call an outlier with a feat and calling that one an outlier as well because the former was? Dude I'm laughing at you right now  If you think you're bullying me, you probably have no idea  how we stand.


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## trance (Mar 27, 2021)

you've made to the second page (40ppp) in the daily yonko v. admiral thread

here have a rest

Reactions: Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## Delta Shell (Mar 27, 2021)

I just find it hard to imagine Robin rolling Kizaru out of a battle that's all.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> I just find it hard to imagine Robin rolling Kizaru out of a battle that's all.


But could you imagine Buggy dodging Akainu and Mihawk, or Apoo booming Kizaru ?


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## Delta Shell (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> But could you imagine Buggy dodging Akainu and Mihawk, or Apoo booming Kizaru ?


I mean those weren't anywhere near that level of disrespect were they   . There's a reason we call her big meme.

I mean shit like that won't happen to Shanks or anything and I don't think Admirals > Yonkou but Oda deffo trolls the fuck out of meme.

He also made Kaido appear lame too.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> I mean those weren't anywhere near that level of disrespect were they   . There's a reason we call her big meme.
> 
> I mean shit like that won't happen to Shanks or anything and I don't think Admirals > Yonkou but Oda deffo trolls the fuck out of meme.
> 
> He also made Kaido appear lame too.


Well, tbh Buggy dodging Mihawk seemed more disrespectful to me. The guy was like one of the weakest pirates in the series. I won't deny that Oda likes to troll her though, indeed.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Strobacaxi (Mar 27, 2021)

Why do people think the faction with the "World Strongest Man", "World Strongest Creature" and the biggest rival of the "World Strongest Swordsmen" are stronger than the faction with no such titles?

-He asks, stupidly.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Eustathios (Mar 27, 2021)

I agree that Yonko~Admirals, but some of the arguments are weak here.



nmwn93 said:


> Lets start with marineford, whitebeard no matter what we think of his power at the time. had the strongest crew at the time and took the full force of the greatest pirate crew around at the time directly against the government  and his forced kind of got dominated. especially if you're looking at it objectively, whitebeard and his fleet had zero chance of saving ace or winning if luffy didn't show up. his aoe attacks like tilting the sea, no diffed. by aokiji who can manage whatever distortions


An attack isn't "no diffed". Aokiji froze the tsunamis, but that came with the drawback of giving the WBPs a footing. He had no choice but to freeze the waves, otherwise Whitebeard could take out most of the Marines using only sea quakes.


nmwn93 said:


> even back in marine ford we see people like marco who is in league with folks like Marshall d teech if you think the goresei know what their talking about.


They said Marco could stop Teach after the war. MF Teach is nowhere near Marco in strength. He was wrecked by Whitebeard's walking corpse.


nmwn93 said:


> marco, though he was annoying and intercepted the admirals a few times, he wasn't really a problem for them, especially when you consider the problems he's giving king and queen just on his own. he didn't give kizaru or kuzan a percentage of that same drama.


Marco was holding Kizaru the same way Jozu was holding Aokiji. Whitebeard was fully confident on his commanders to fight the Navy's greatest strength. They only gained a clear upper hand after Whitebeard's heart attack. Both Kizaru and Aokiji commented on the distractions. Kizaru also had Onigumo helping him. Now one would expect the Admirals to win, but that does not take away from the fact that their fights would have gone on for much longer.


nmwn93 said:


> if you remember akainu went through all of the wb commanders when they tried to "protect luffy"


Akainu and half the Marines went against the WB commanders and Crocodile. It was an all out battle. For all we know, other Admirals may have been there too. And he never went past the Commanders, that's a misconception. Later on panel Akainu is shown having made no progress except taking out a fodder commander like Curiel. He was stopped on his tracks.


nmwn93 said:


> and all but laughed off their haki as a "pain" or "nuisance" soon as the admirals got serious it was OVER  marco was incapacitated and his fruit was dealt with.


In a 2v1 situation with Marco not even fighting back and literally turning his back.


nmwn93 said:


> kuzan broke diamond off with his ice... (jozu lost that arm people)


See above.


nmwn93 said:


> and later akainu after talking a full rage wb to the face then washed up all 16 of his commanders like right after.


See above.


nmwn93 said:


> The marines are severely at at disadvantage when fighting on marineford. i know this is triggering for some of you. However, it's facts that the marines have to protect the island of marine ford itself . knowing that it makes further sense why you wuld want to keep whitbeard from making landfall especially with his powers and its flat out stated over and over that akainu was trying to mitigate wb's destruction.


And the best way to do that would be to take out Whitebeard. The Marines were in no way disadvantaged. They had the home turf advantage in the form of walls specifically built to counter WB and a hostage that prevented WB from even using his full strength. Look at what he did once Ace was dead or what Blackbeard unleashed as soon as he got his hands on the Gura.


nmwn93 said:


> its later bought up by sengoku that he wasn't finna let bb do anything to marineford. i mean. garp, sengoku, and shiki destroyed half the place on their own. that's only 3 people. that fact in of itself should go to stress how much restraint the marines have to use while on home base. Hell kaido didnt even want to fight oden at HIS New castle as he knew a fight there would likely destroy his new place. if any of those 3 logias had gone all out if punk hazard is any indication then i shudder to think what would have became of wb's crew..


Didn't Kizaru try to blast WB away with Yasakani no Magatama? He was blocked. Aokiji could only freeze the sea. Akainu's magma meteors were easily blocked and his Ryuusei Kazan was dealt with via WB's plan.


nmwn93 said:


> shanks came in and stopped the war and that's good, looks cool. shanks even said if anyone wants to fight they could fight him. cool moment. badass line.... that the admirals completely ignored and got back to what they were doing and continued to attack luffy like shanks wasn't there. if  sengoku would have not stopped the war AND UNDERTAND THIS, SENGOKU STOPPED THE WAR. at shank's suggestion.


Great, however that doesn't take away from Shanks throwing a challenge at everyone. He was there to stop the war, with or without the Marines consent. You think Shanks would just turn back and leave MF if Sengoku decided to take on the challenge?

Also, Beckman stopped Kizaru. He continued later, but he was legitimately delayed.


nmwn93 said:


> the overhype of the pirates. i love them too. i really, really do, however, i dont share the same implicit biased a lot of us on here do.  esp when compared to the marines. here we are in the land of wano and ive seen kaido be cut and hurt by luffy, zoro, killer, kidd and law.... I've never seen kizaru hurt outside from a scratch he got after raylegh sneak attacked him....


That's implying the current Supernovae can't hurt the Admirals. Them hurting monsters who are renowned for their supreme durability in-verse strongly suggests otherwise.


nmwn93 said:


> the only damage I've seen akainu take was from a sneak attack an enraged whitebeard hit him with and honestly id say whitebeard left that sneak attack a lot worse off than wb with a new hole in his chest and half his face blown off...


And that was Whitebeard who had suffered countless stabs/shots from fodder, two heart attack and a magma fist. Still had enough power to split an island and injure Akainu, even after getting his face melted. You think the other Yonko are far from that Whitebeard?


nmwn93 said:


> then akainu went on to not get hit by anyone else at least not substantially.  sure shanks had blackbeard shook and he didn't want to fight the crew, yeah but.... he and his whole squad ran from big akainu who was SOLO  when he went after them.


Blackbeard is not someone to pick random fights. He had everything to lose against Akainu and very little to gain. Same against Shanks. He already achieved his goal.


nmwn93 said:


> before you ask why bb was down to fight sengoku? Bb's goal was to destroy the island itself and he had the power to *not beat sengoku* but to destroy the ISLAND


Which meant going against those who protected it. BB was drunk on power anyway.


nmwn93 said:


> meaning he was using all of his force as opposed to sengoku who is trying to prevent and mitigate damage. its like asking usopp to fight while hes also trying to do repairs to the merry.  i do not see any of the original admirals taking damage from these supernova that are fighting kaido and big  mom now, heck they cant even really damage them yet,


How so? If they can damage Kaido and Big Mom, they surely can injure the Admirals.


nmwn93 said:


> so to say someone like cutrrent luffy has surpassed his grandfather even if post marineford garp is "featless" portryal alone and feats shown up till this point imo show that someone like currebt luffy still had a way to go. especially if he needs a whole team to not even damage kaido or bm,


Did they damage or did they not damage Kaido? I'm confused.


nmwn93 said:


> the pirates RUN FROM the marines. sure we can act like that's just because of their organization being so vast, yet id wager its because they are individually so strong. our beloved doofy was still avoiding tsuru till this day. being a pirate going against someone like kizaru kuzan akainu on sea is probably a DEATH SETENCE for any pirate because of their powers or if you think back to the days of old. garp was a monster to pirates that makes sense imagine having to face garps move set as a pirate, idc who it is if garp is like coby nd decides to jump in the water and just torpedo your ship, himself what are you to do?? its probably better to avoid,


And the Marines cannot take down the Yonko. They rule the New World like Emperors. The Marines and Warlords keep them in check as commented by Garp. Also most of the pirates not affiliated to a Yonko are extremely scared of them. Yonko underlings on the other hand have shown no fear in going against Admirals (see Jack).


nmwn93 said:


> on a one on one level the upper marines are really consistent and in the story take little to no losses. especially if compared to their emperor counterparts who are a buncha powerful frauds, big mom claims to be so dreadful meanwhile she hasnt killed anyone whose ever invaded her island from roger down to luffy. i think she like her son katakuri learned the ways of the world nd decided to use her rep  to protect her FAMILY even though she likely just wants to eat nd for people to be happy. kaido is just flat out not impressive for me. yeah hes strong ut hes been defeated mutiple times on record and in a fight aganist the big dog marines i dont think his ephitet applies at all.


This is just downplay here. The Yonko have been hit by plot as they're going against the MC.


nmwn93 said:


> i think the admirals and high up old heads can still tango with him old heads like garp and sengoku i bet could pull a w at HIGH COST but i suspect people like the origonal c3 to just win after a hard fought battle, straight up if the pirates could do something i think they would i think the number of fodder we see on the marine side would make u wonder why the pirates havent taken over already.


Already explained, the Yonko are enemies with the Marines as much as they are enemies with themselves. The Goroseu were shitting themselves on the prospect of WB and Shanks allying and there's an uproar about the return of Rocks (Kaido & BM alliance)


nmwn93 said:


> i dont think its just numbers i think the navy has stronger forces in more of an abundance. though i want to know how and why you say the yonko are above the admirals and marine legends even though they havent (in  my estimation especially lived up to the same standard as the marines. )
> 
> lets discuss


The Marines are the strongest faction in OP, but the Yonko are up there too in both hype and feats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Delta Shell (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Well, tbh Buggy dodging Mihawk seemed more disrespectful to me. The guy was like one of the weakest pirates in the series. I won't deny that Oda likes to troll her though, indeed.


Lol do you? She got rollllllled away man it was hilarious. Mihawk didn't cut him and then blew his buggy ball back at him saving face somewhat.

She also had a bike ride on her face.   

And lost her memory 

Ffs Oda.

Anyway different strokes for different folks. Just pointing out why people bow undervalued Yonkou. Oda has portrayed two of them really badly.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> Lol do you? She got rollllllled away man it was hilarious. Mihawk didn't cut him and then blew his buggy ball back at him saving face somewhat.
> 
> She also had a bike ride on her face.
> 
> ...


Yeah, at times, she really is used as a gag character. Even her looks drives one to believe that. What can you do? At least she is extremely powerful


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2021)

Only yonko fans think that yonko are in their own tier and above another top tiers (admirals and such). Most general opinion (including in-verse and possibly Oda's) is that they are  in the same tier.

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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> Only yonko fans think that yonko are in their own tier and above another top tiers (admirals and such). Most general opinion (including in-verse and possibly Oda's) is that they are  in the same tier.


make a thread with multiple choices for who is the strongest alive in OP and see there the general consensus. I recall one was made a couple of months ago.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> I agree that Yonko~Admirals, but some of the arguments are weak here.
> 
> 
> An attack isn't "no diffed". Aokiji froze the tsunamis, but that came with the drawback of giving the WBPs a footing. He had no choice but to freeze the waves, otherwise Whitebeard could take out most of the Marines using only sea quakes.
> ...


10 aokiji stopped the tsunanis


Eustathios said:


> I agree that Yonko~Admirals, but some of the arguments are weak here.
> 
> 
> An attack isn't "no diffed". Aokiji froze the tsunamis, but that came with the drawback of giving the WBPs a footing. He had no choice but to freeze the waves, otherwise Whitebeard could take out most of the Marines using only sea quakes.
> ...


first, thanks a thought out response. "no diff", there is such a thing as no difficulty. aokiji stopped the tsunamis with absolutely no difficulty. the wb pirates got a foot hold  because aokiji fell into the water. after avoiding whitebeards long range quake attack. not because he froze the tsunamis. its also implied that kizaru or akinu could have blown away the ice sooner if they cared to. 


to your point about teech being "nowhere near marco."  i have trouble believing that. especially since shanks himself told whitebeard that he was injured by Blackbeard.  he wasn't holding back or off gaurd. also considering marco got devastated by blackbeard somwhere within the time skip at least a  year years after the fact. this is a teech who only had a small time with the gura gura no mi. and still bested marco and the others so the gorosei seem a little "out of touch" with their original assessment. 

i do agree that marco and jozu were "holding aokigi and kizaru" just not very well. their "fights" only went on a few panels respectively. before they ere stopped hard,. that's all a fact. you can speculate all you want to me about how it could have gone if they werent distracted but they were taken out swiftly and with not all that much effort in their moment of "shock". marco without his devil fruit was down from two shots, hell he was even hurting when he took the shots initially. he flamed on and kizaru was like ok enough of this, onigumo (who kinds deserves a speed feat for even getting up on marco like he did. sea prism stone  goes on. two shots, down goes marco. kuzan broke off jozus whole diamond arm with an unnamed ice attack. the admirals did not look mlike they were expending too much effort. the anime even expanded this and at this point i know some like to deny the anime as part of the canon but they do expand on the existing canon manga but i digress. ill get to your next batch of points in a few


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> I respect your opinion too
> 
> but I disagree.
> 
> ...


my fam. its fine we see it different. though i think the proof is in the pudding. were already seeing our protagonist go against the top pirates so its time to surpass them. the admirals the marines the government are the final boss. its not going to be any of the yonko. or any other pirate unless im used to be a pirate. 

exactly if big mom has barely been grazed and their toying with the rooftop 5 then i see kuzan, akainu, and god knows kizaru STOMPING them as they will not toy with these young pirates. and they have no answer for the admirals powers thats why i dont see them doing anything to the c3. no matter the extent bb has mastered his fruit in two years why would that make him more superior to a admiral who have had their fruits MUCH LONGER  and again they train with military frequency. pirates do not.  

you're just telling me shanks is stronger than aokiji. that is not stated anywhere, nor does it make a whole lot of sense especally inna pure power level stand point or match up stand point. for all the fan love i want to give shanks hes shown nothing to put him near aokiji. he lost an arm to something aokiji just froze. if his limbs can come off to a sea king it should be able to be frozen.


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

Delta Shell said:


> I just find it hard to imagine Robin rolling Kizaru out of a battle that's all.



I mean, to be fair, Pre-Timeskip Luffy sent Aokiji flying into the sky, something not even Whitebeard could do. 

Fucking Apoo cut Kizaru in half and blew him away

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> make a thread with multiple choices for who is the strongest alive in OP and see there the general consensus. I recall one was made a couple of months ago.


multiple people can be wrong.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

i mean thats more than what marco was able to do to either of them. also what was the result of their efforts? luffy and apoo's i mean. one was frozen solid and left alive as repayment for saving smoker. and the other one was kicked through a building hopscotch style while kizaru's hands were still in his pockets. lol.


Doflamingo said:


> I mean, to be fair, Pre-Timeskip Luffy sent Aokiji flying into the sky, something not even Whitebeard could do.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> multiple people can be wrong.


Societies are built on majorities. Extreme regimes are also in minority, does it make them right ? Why would you be above most others ?


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> my fam. its fine we see it different. though i think the proof is in the pudding. were already seeing our protagonist go against the top pirates so its time to surpass them. the admirals the marines the government are the final boss. its not going to be any of the yonko. or any other pirate unless im used to be a pirate.


Sure, it's good to express our opinions. Big Mom and Kaido are not the only Yonko though. We've still got Shanks and Blackbeard, both of whom are amongst the most hyped characters in the series at this point. As for the Marines and the government being the final boss, sure that's true. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Admirals have to be a tougher fight for Luffy, than say Blackbeard. Imu is also not an Admiral. If he/she is the final boss, it doesn't matter. Blackbeard is likely going to be the WSM at some point also. 



nmwn93 said:


> exactly if big mom has barely been grazed and their toying with the rooftop 5 then i see kuzan, akainu, and god knows kizaru STOMPING them as they will not toy with these young pirates.


They're being nerfed by plot armour too though. If Luffy wasn't the MC, Kaido wouldn't have imprisoned him and Kidd in Udon. He would've executed them on the spot lol. But the story has to continue. 

The admirals were toying with Luffy in Marineford though. They could've killed him a million times, but they didn't. 


nmwn93 said:


> no matter the extent bb has mastered his fruit in two years why would that make him more superior to a admiral who have had their fruits MUCH LONGER  and again they train with military frequency. pirates do not.


That's a good point, and normally I'd agree. But Blackbeard is abnormal by any standard, so we'd have to see how he progresses. I highly doubt he's going to be weaker than Aokiji by the end of the series.


nmwn93 said:


> you're just telling me shanks is stronger than aokiji. that is not stated anywhere, nor does it make a whole lot of sense especally inna pure power level stand point or match up stand point. for all the fan love i want to give shanks hes shown nothing to put him near aokiji. he lost an arm to something aokiji just froze. if his limbs can come off to a sea king it should be able to be frozen.



It makes less sense to think that Aokiji > Shanks, from both a narrative and storytelling pov, as well as the depiction of Shanks as WB's equal in his old age.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Societies are built on majorities. Extreme regimes are also in minority, does it make them right ? Why would you be above most others ?


depends on your perspective and what your seeing. "People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "*reality*". POV is a mutha. this is biased pov in favor of the yonko based off fan favoritisim not hard facts. the hard facts have pirates taking Ls to marines in all kinds of situations all the time. but i will test your theory a bit, keep an eye on the battledome


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> i mean thats more than what marco was able to do to either of them. also what was the result of their efforts? luffy and apoo's i mean. one was frozen solid and left alive as repayment for saving smoker. and the other one was kicked through a building hopscotch style while kizaru's hands were still in his pockets. lol.


It was a joke..

But just to illustrate that using Robin and Chopper as reasons for why Big Mom gets whacked by the Admirals is kinda dubious.

We're all just operating on our own headcanons thinking this or that wouldn't happen.

I mean, what was the result of Robin's efforts, ultimately? What about Jinbe's? Pretty sure Big Mom was perfectly fine after too.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> make a thread with multiple choices for who is the strongest alive in OP and see there the general consensus. I recall one was made a couple of months ago.


I mean I can create a thread: do you think that yonko are tier above admirals? But you already know who will vote "yes". People who think that Kaido is >Roger.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> depends on your perspective and what your seeing. "People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "*reality*". POV is a mutha. this is biased pov in favor of the yonko based off fan favoritisim not hard facts. the hard facts have pirates taking Ls to marines in all kinds of situations all the time. but i will test your theory a bit, keep an eye on the battledome


What you call biased pov for the yonko can also be turned against you. You saying others are biased while you are not will not bring a plus to your argument, in fact, it will weaken it.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> I mean I can create a thread: do you think that yonko are tier above admirals? But you already know who will vote "yes". *People who think that Kaido is >Roger.*


Not necessarily. I believe that Yonko are decisively above Admirals, but with current feats and hype I can't put Kaido above Roger, but I can put him above all alive characters.


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Not necessarily. I believe that Yonko are decisively above Admirals, but with current feats and hype I can't put Kaido above Roger, but I can put him above all alive characters.


The most general consensus is that only Roger and prime WB are in their own tier. Why Kaido has to be here?


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Sure, it's good to express our opinions. Big Mom and Kaido are not the only Yonko though. We've still got Shanks and Blackbeard, both of whom are amongst the most hyped characters in the series at this point. As for the Marines and the government being the final boss, sure that's true. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the Admirals have to be a tougher fight for Luffy, than say Blackbeard. Imu is also not an Admiral. If he/she is the final boss, it doesn't matter. Blackbeard is likely going to be the WSM at some point also.
> 
> 
> They're being nerfed by plot armour too though. If Luffy wasn't the MC, Kaido wouldn't have imprisoned him and Kidd in Udon. He would've executed them on the spot lol. But the story has to continue.
> ...


see even youre doing it here doflomingo. you're giving bb an allowance that you would NEVER GIVE THE admirals. that right there is the bias im talking about. "Blackbeard is abnormal?" hes a patient fool. arrogant overconfident fool. im supposed to belive a man who he and his crew were one shot by Magellan is so out of this worlds after two years? nah I'm good. when it comes to powering up in short times we've seen the greatest progress from marines, not pirates. 

Koby and helmeppo are the only examples i need to prove this, their progress in 2 years and four months (the amout of time luffys been on his journey) is much more astronomical than anything from any pirate.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Not necessarily. I believe that Yonko are decisively above Admirals, but with current feats and hype I can't put Kaido above Roger, but I can put him above all alive characters.


HOWWWWWWW?!?!?!? thats what i want to know. like please if you write it all out i will read im trying to see this lie that you all see.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

Corax said:


> The most general consensus is that only Roger and prime WB are in their own tier. Why Kaido has to be here?


If he'll be, he'll be, for now we have no clear indication that he can beat those two.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> It was a joke..
> 
> But just to illustrate that using Robin and Chopper as reasons for why Big Mom gets whacked by the Admirals is kinda dubious.
> 
> ...


it was funny. its also not a point i ever made. bm has her gags. and since shes likely to be an ally soon her having certian moments that are "funny" with SH pirates makes sense narratively.  my point is from what I've seen from all of them so far in battle they cant beat the admirals man. and god forbid i team them up actiually... thats tthe next thread. i want all the smoke. we are getting to the bottom of this today. excuse the typos


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## Duhul10 (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> HOWWWWWWW?!?!?!? thats what i want to know. like please if you write it all out i will read im trying to see this lie that you all see.


Feats, statements, call it a lie if you want to, if that makes you feel better. We also have Oda's words for God's sake.


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## Mihawk (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> see even youre doing it here doflomingo. you're giving bb an allowance that you would NEVER GIVE THE admirals. that right there is the bias im talking about. "Blackbeard is abnormal?" hes a patient fool. arrogant overconfident fool. im supposed to belive a man who he and his crew were one shot by Magellan is so out of this worlds after two years? nah I'm good. when it comes to powering up in short times we've seen the greatest progress from marines, not pirates.
> 
> Koby and helmeppo are the only examples i need to prove this, their progress in 2 years and four months (the amout of time luffys been on his journey) is much more astronomical than anything from any pirate.



In my own defense, I think this thread is riddled with bias. Blackbeard is abnormal. This isn't what I'm saying, it's what Oda has alluded to, using Marco and Shanks/Buggy's statements. He is dual wielding 2 devil fruit powers, including the most powerful devil fruit in the entire series. Tell me, what Admiral has that?

Blackbeard's growth rate is immense lol. If you think that a man who got one shotted by Magellan has now become one of the Four Emperors, that just proves he's shown a much, much greater progress than any of the admirals. Granted, I wouldn't take him over someone like Akainu right now, but still. Most of the Admirals are in their late 50s, and have been in this position for a very long time. Blackbeard has been constantly making moves, and has been on the rise.

You're talking about Koby and Helmeppo. I thought we're talking about Admirals and Yonko. Everybody knows about Koby's growth. Even if his growth spurt is greater than Luffy's, it's too bad because he's not the main character.


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## Eustathios (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> 10 aokiji stopped the tsunanis


How does that say anything about his in relation to WB? Tsunamis are an extension of WB's power, not something he exclusively relies on.


nmwn93 said:


> first, thanks a thought out response. "no diff", there is such a thing as no difficulty. aokiji stopped the tsunamis with absolutely no difficulty. the wb pirates got a foot hold  because aokiji fell into the water.


Aokiji was thrown in the water by WB's attack. He didn't fall on his own will. His only option was to turn to ice else he would drown.


nmwn93 said:


> after avoiding whitebeards long range quake attack. not because he froze the tsunamis. its also implied that kizaru or akinu could have blown away the ice sooner if they cared to.


And they did not do it.


nmwn93 said:


> to your point about teech being "nowhere near marco."  i have trouble believing that. especially since shanks himself told whitebeard that he was injured by Blackbeard.


We don't know when the incident took place. Shanks might've been a cabin boy for all we know. We saw how powerful or rather weak Blackbeard was. He was having trouble with Ace's attacks and had to call his crew for help against a severely injured WB.


nmwn93 said:


> he wasn't holding back or off gaurd. also considering marco got devastated by blackbeard somwhere within the time skip at least a  year years after the fact. this is a teech who only had a small time with the gura gura no mi. and still bested marco and the others so the gorosei seem a little "out of touch" with their original assessment.


The Gura fruit is a serious boost, being the most destructive one in verse. Furthermore we don't have a clear picture on how the Payback War went. We know that Blackbeard and his allies won decisively and that's it. No mention on how Marco vs Blackbeard went. One thing to consider is that BB would never let a fruit as valuable as Marco's out there. The fact that he couldn't take it is also a hint that the WBs defeat as a whole might have been much more severe than Marco's alone.


nmwn93 said:


> i do agree that marco and jozu were "holding aokigi and kizaru" just not very well.


What do you mean by not very well? The Admirals were fully engaged in battle. It was no different from Rayleigh holding Kizaru in Sabaody.


nmwn93 said:


> their "fights" only went on a few panels respectively. before they ere stopped hard,. that's all a fact. you can speculate all you want to me about how it could have gone if they werent distracted but they were taken out swiftly and with not all that much effort in their moment of "shock". marco without his devil fruit was down from two shots, hell he was even hurting when he took the shots initially. he flamed on and kizaru was like ok enough of this, onigumo (who kinds deserves a speed feat for even getting up on marco like he did. sea prism stone  goes on. two shots, down goes marco.


Marco went down because he literally dropped his guard. Even after taking Kizaru's beams he didn't care. All he wanted at that point was to get to WB.


nmwn93 said:


> kuzan broke off jozus whole diamond arm with an unnamed ice attack. the admirals did not look mlike they were expending too much effort. the anime even expanded this and at this point i know some like to deny the anime as part of the canon but they do expand on the existing canon manga but i digress. ill get to your next batch of points in a few


Aokiji specifically mentions Jozu getting distracted. His fruit is also a perfect counter to Jozu's diamond as it ignores conventional durability. There was no reason for Admirals to hold back there. The fate of Navy HQ and the reputation of the World Govt as a whole were hanging on that battle.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

adnormal


Doflamingo said:


> In my own defense, I think this thread is riddled with bias. Blackbeard is abnormal. This isn't what I'm saying, it's what Oda has alluded to, using Marco and Shanks/Buggy's statements. He is dual wielding 2 devil fruit powers, including the most powerful devil fruit in the entire series. Tell me, what Admiral has that?
> 
> Blackbeard's growth rate is immense lol. If you think that a man who got one shotted by Magellan has now become one of the Four Emperors, that just proves he's shown a much, much greater progress than any of the admirals. Granted, I wouldn't take him over someone like Akainu right now, but still. Most of the Admirals are in their late 50s, and have been in this position for a very long time. Blackbeard has been constantly making moves, and has been on the rise.
> 
> You're talking about Koby and Helmeppo. I thought we're talking about Admirals and Yonko. Everybody knows about Koby's growth. Even if his growth spurt is greater than Luffy's, it's too bad because he's not the main character.


 as in his body is different yes. hes abnormal in that way, and you say they the admirals are in their late 50s like big mom isnt almost 70. or like whitebard wasn't in his 70s or like ray and garp arent both pushing 80. heck kaido is in his late 50s. and its not just koby helmeppo and tashigi too. its uncanny and it above the growth we see from pirates. i loom at what garp has done with koby and helmeppo and i can say i think luffy would be way stronger if he went into the marines. luffy is a battle prodigy. evident through his lineage (garp grand dad, dragon dad, ace and sabo as his sparring partners growing up. it comes easy to luffy. koby and more so helmeppo were regular nobodies. koby has all of future sight haki like katakuri in just 2 years. luffy had to be trained ny the first mate of roger and could barley scratch the surface


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> How does that say anything about his in relation to WB? Tsunamis are an extension of WB's power, not something he exclusively relies on.
> 
> Aokiji was thrown in the water by WB's attack. He didn't fall on his own will. His only option was to turn to ice else he would drown.
> 
> ...


i cant do the multi quote thing here. and again we don't get how much time passed in those panels you can assume it was a long time i assume that it wasnt. it all seemed to be moving really qucik from what i read and even in the anime it was pretty quick and they drag shit. FACT: aokiji avoided wb's quake and fell into the sea. that then he made the foothold. wonder why he didnt just save himself and go back to shore well plot. and kuzan and akainu both broke right through aokijis ice akainu when it was time for the encircling walls and kizaru broke through when he was trying to destroy laws submarine. GG is a great boost. its shockwaves were being matched by sengokus shockwaves just fine tho. 

by not holding them off not very well i mean jozu lost a flipping arm and marco got shot through twice like an overly dependent amateur who didnt expect to lose his abilty to heal. and the fact is he went down. a l is A l AND MARCO HOLD THAT l. THE EXCUSE BEHIND IT IS NOT MY BUISNESS . the fact remains the admirals popped them with very little damage. every attack git off on an admiral was a sneak attack. marcos kick to kuzan. whitebeards "assualt" (haha not really) on akainu and jozus attack on aokiji. the admirals get caught off gaurd and get right back to work.... wb caught off gaurd stabbed thru the chest, hole in stomach, face blowm half off, 

marco got two holes in his stomach and some sea prsim bracelets. 

and jozu lost a diamond arm that i hope aokiji pawned later that week, 


one of these groups is not like the other. the admirals were far lesss worse for ware after their encounter with the pirates than the pirates were with them... FACT


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

ew, yo mods why did you merge these????   especially if i posted ths one long ago and it was in the right place???? why not just let it live? this was un needed. can i ask that you return it? there was no need for this, at all.


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## Kinjin (Mar 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> ew, yo mods why did you merge these????   especially if i posted ths one long ago and it was in the right place???? why not just let it live? this was un needed. can i ask that you return it? there was no need for this, at all.


A month ago isn't that long ago. Threads with the same match-up get merged when not much time has passed between them, 3 months or less at the minimum.


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## nmwn93 (Mar 27, 2021)

Kinjin said:


> A month ago isn't that long ago. Threads with the same match-up get merged when not much time has passed between them, 3 months or less at the minimum.


YOU are selective af with who yall do that too, ad a month is decently long ago my friend especially considering the fact that there is a lot of new information that we have now that we did  not have back then as plenty has changed and there is a fresher context that was in the thread i posted yesterday that was seprate from this which is why it was its own separate posts. i do not understand why you moved it. that was unneed

the mods be like yoo see this perfectely good fun... let me go do something to interject for no reason im going to merge an new take to an old take even if the context of the takes are not the same. lets merge this but i can still search common match ups on battledome that have yet to be merged. smh.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 29, 2021)

Admirals=>Yonkos
/thread 
only people denying are those who think whitebeard was the weakest yonko which is false and there headcannon

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Admirals=>Yonkos
> /thread
> only people denying are those who think whitebeard was the weakest yonko which is false and there headcannon



Shanks>=all of the admirals except Akainu

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 29, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Shanks>=all of the admirals except Akainu


It's kinda funny how akainu is always excluded from the admirals but when the yonko get feats it all scale to all of them lol, even though they're all different in strength
While the weakest admiral went 9 days equal to akainu
Admirals=>Yonkos
Did you check PM's?


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It's kinda funny how akainu is always excluded from the admirals but when the yonko get feats it all scale to all of them lol, even though they're all different in strength
> While the weakest admiral went 9 days equal to akainu
> Admirals=>Yonkos
> Did you check PM's?


Well, Akainu is the Fleet Admiral and unlike Sengoku, he's in his prime. I don't think the yonko are all equal ofc. But if the Admirals are, the Yonko probably should be too. 

Not sure why Aokiji is the weakest admiral?

Just saw it and replied. It was a cool piece of info box though I'm not sure I can read it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It's kinda funny how akainu is always excluded from the admirals but when the yonko get feats it all scale to all of them lol, even though they're all different in strength
> While the weakest admiral went 9 days equal to akainu
> Admirals=>Yonkos
> Did you check PM's?


I think it's becuase the Admiral v admiral have concluded while the Yonko v Yonko are in stalemate or if WB won against any of his peer we havent know yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 29, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> becuase


It ended as soon as big mom put whitebeard on the higher pedestal


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## Karma (Mar 29, 2021)

They should be roughly equal to each other.

C3 = Average Yonko

EoS should be smth like this

BB>Mihawk>Shanks>Akainu>Kaido=>Aokiji>Kizaru=>Meme.

Garp, Sengoku, Fujitora and Greenbull are prolly on par with the strongest FMs like Marco, Benn, Shiryu and maybe King if he stops jobbing

Reactions: Like 1


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## KBD (Mar 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It ended as soon as big mom put whitebeard on the higher pedestal


In terms of fodder allies. Also I bet BM was counting on Cuckbeards wifes' son Weevil to help him.


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 29, 2021)

KBD said:


> In terms of fodder allies


it was strength, I wouldn't take her order serious but I think she was saying WHitebeard>>Shanks>Kaido


KBD said:


> lso I bet BM was counting on Cuckbeards wifes' son Weevil to help him.


lol


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## Mihawk (Mar 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It ended as soon as big mom put whitebeard on the higher pedestal


Or it could’ve just been respect..

since WB was the only one among them to equal Roger, and his status was obviously more legendary than theirs, renown wise.

Akainu was put on a higher pedestal than Kizaru by virtue of his promotion and plot

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ShadoLord (Mar 29, 2021)

It's obvious the Admirals are stronger. 

We've seen what happened to a fight between an Admiral and Yonko. The Yonko died, he's history now.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 30, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> just


no it wasn't respect who says  " I would've Destroyed"> directly implying strength


Doflamingo said:


> since WB was the only one among them to equal Roger, and his status was obviously more legendary than theirs, renown wise.


Equaling roger isn't a respect thing, his status was legendary hes the true WSM of course but its not respect shes referring to strength this is what happens when the author calls him the strongest pirate but lots of user keep denying 


Doflamingo said:


> Akainu was put on a higher pedestal than Kizaru by virtue of his promotion and plot


So sengoku since he was FA was stronger than the admirals? wrong narrator said 3 admirals were the strongest at MF

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 30, 2021)

There's way too many scans to prove WB even at his sick old age was the strongest, its just that the other yonkos/pirates couldn't surpass him in strength

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mihawk (Mar 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> no it wasn't respect who says  " I would've Destroyed"> directly implying strength


Old WB still held the title of WSM. His renown and status is above the rest of the Yonko, especially since Shanks only became one 6 years ago and is from a couple generations after.

Big Mom knows Whitebeard’s strength better than most. They were crew mates aboard the Rocks, but WB surpassed them by dominating their following era with Roger.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> Equaling roger isn't a respect thing, his status was legendary hes the true WSM of course but its not respect shes referring to strength this is what happens when the author calls him the strongest pirate but lots of user keep denying


It’s not denial, refer to the above too.

Big Mom never equaled Roger. She was his peer and came from the same era, but she never got to be seen as Roger’s equal or the man closest to him. Neither was Shiki, Kaido, or any of the other great Pirates at the time. Whitebeard stood above them. They never went as far as he did. Roger was the only exception.

Strength is obviously a main factor, but so is reputation. Read between the lines too, it’s easy to see.


GreenEggsAHam said:


> So sengoku since he was FA was stronger than the admirals? wrong narrator said 3 admirals were the strongest at MF



Check one of my previous posts. I said Akainu is in his prime unlike Sengoku.


> Well, Akainu is the Fleet Admiral and unlike Sengoku, he's in his prime. I don't think the yonko are all equal ofc. But if the Admirals are, the Yonko probably should be too.




Sengoku wasn’t stronger than the Colored Trio in Marineford. He could’ve been equal to or stronger than them in his prime, but we don’t know exactly how long he’s been FA.

Akainu is at his peak right now, and he only just began his tenure. Different age and stage of life for them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 30, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Old WB still held the title of WSM. His renown and status is above the rest of the Yonko, especially since Shanks only became one 6 years ago and is from a couple generations after.
> 
> Big Mom knows Whitebeard’s strength better than most. They were crew mates aboard the Rocks, but WB surpassed them by dominating their following era with Roger.
> 
> ...


I forgot what were commenting about was it WB strength? or something I was focusing on 1009 its hilarious for yonko fans


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## Kylo Ren (Mar 31, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It ended as soon as big mom put whitebeard on the higher pedestal


I always believe that WB is stronger than any yonko(since some character state that its WB era) but we also have the "yonko" as a group that said equal to each other hence the deadlock situation.

But that BM statement suggest their army as a whole that the BM pirates > Any yonko crew since its imply if she acquire the elbaf army.

Honestly, Im not entirely sure but thats how I see it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Mar 31, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> But that BM statement suggest their army as a whole that the BM pirates > Any yonko crew since its imply if she acquire the elbaf army.


Big mom army is way stronger than kaido's 
But if you see it that way its alright Shanks admitted WB was at the top

Reactions: Like 1


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