# Beerus vs Chakravartin



## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

I was checking if this thread was made before, but looks like it wasn't after all.

Yup, a battle of Gods 



*VS*



*Location:* The Space
*Distance:* 100m
*Knowledge:* None
*Mindset:* Bloodlust

*Conditions/Restrictions:*

- Beerus is at 100% of his power.
- Chakravartin is in Creator Form.


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## Adamant soul (Jun 3, 2015)

Memory's a little hazy on Asura's Wrath but I believe Beerus has superior firepower and durability though Chakravartin may be faster. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though. 

Beerus should win from what I remember.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

Adamant soul said:


> Memory's a little hazy on Asura's Wrath but I believe Beerus has superior firepower and durability though Chakravartin may be faster. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
> 
> Beerus should win from what I remember.



Well, Asura in Destructor Form destroyed a star, and Chakravartin in base fought against a stronger Asura (if is really considered that Six Armed Mantra Form Asura is > Destructor Form Asura)

Chakravartin at base is at least star level+, he was fighting on par with Six Armed Mantra Form Asura.

Chakravartin in Creator Form one shotted Six Armed Mantra Form Asura.


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## Imperator100 (Jun 3, 2015)

Wasent there some recent thing upgrading Asura's Wrath verse? Like something or other saying Charavatin was the size of a Galactic Center or something.
Either way I think Charavatin has got this, seeing as how he can use hax and speed to beat him, even if he maybe is at a disadvantage DC/Durability-wise.


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## Adamant soul (Jun 3, 2015)

CapFalcon said:


> Well, Asura in Destructor Form destroyed a star, and Chakravartin in base fought against a stronger Asura (if is really considered that Six Armed Mantra Form Asura is > Destructor Form Asura)
> 
> Chakravartin at base is at least star level+, he was fighting on par with Six Armed Mantra Form Asura.
> 
> Chakravartin in Creator Form one shotted Six Armed Mantra Form Asura.



Kid Buu's Earth busting feat was star level and he's weaker than the SSJ3 Goku, Beerus casually two-shotted. There's also Whis' statement of Beerus being a solar system buster and, considering we've yet to see Beerus go all out and Whis has been Beerus' teacher for centuries at least, we have no reason to doubt him.


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## Adamant soul (Jun 3, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Wasent there some recent thing upgrading Asura's Wrath verse? Like something or other saying Charavatin was the size of a Galactic Center or something.
> Either way I think Charavatin has got this, seeing as how he can use hax and speed to beat him, even if he maybe is at a disadvantage DC/Durability-wise.



What kind of hax does he have?


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## Imperator100 (Jun 3, 2015)

Adamant soul said:


> What kind of hax does he have?


IIRC Spacetime Manipulation and Dimension Manipulation.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

Imperator100 said:


> Wasent there some recent thing upgrading Asura's Wrath verse? Like something or other saying Charavatin was the size of a Galactic Center or something.
> Either way I think Charavatin has got this, seeing as how he can use hax and speed to beat him, even if he maybe is at a disadvantage DC/Durability-wise.



Is questionable if Chakravartin is that big, as the Karma Fortress if is really star size, because in the game, the Karma Fortress looks much smaller in the game than in the pic of the Official Works.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 3, 2015)

Adamant soul said:


> Kid Buu's Earth busting feat was star level



nah, small star level


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## Imperator100 (Jun 3, 2015)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> nah, small star level



Still technically stellar


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jun 3, 2015)

Plus, Kid Buu's feat was the definition of casual.


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## Atem (Jun 3, 2015)

Beerus destroyed two stars but Chakravartin is the size and diameter of the center of the galaxy you're going to need more than just destroying a couple of stars in order to beat him.

Plus, Asura's Wrath complete works clarifies that he was fucking around with the entire galaxy and dragging it all to the center. That on top of what see in the fight where he see him fling around multiple stars at once without exerting any real effort, that one odd supernova he caused that Asura blew up, and the fact like Guldo he can temporarily stop time; I don't see Beerus winning.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

I find it questionable that, because the Karma Fortress was showing as star size in the Complete Works or whatever, but in the game isn't even close to that size, the Karma Fortress is just large planet size in the game.


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## Atem (Jun 3, 2015)

CapFalcon said:


> I find it questionable that, because the Karma Fortress was showing as star size in the Complete Works or whatever, but in the game isn't even close to that size, the Karma Fortress is just large planet size in the game.



Not talking about the Karma Fortress.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Not talking about the Karma Fortress.



That's not my point.

My point is that in the game they haven't the size that they have in the Complete Works, like star size Karma Fortress or near galactic size Chakravartin.


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## LoveLessNHK (Jun 3, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Chakravartin is the size and diameter of the center of the galaxy .



What does that even mean?

When I read that I imagine the center of the galaxy as some infinitesimally small point in space, zero dimensions. 

Clearly you meant to imply the opposite though. Not infinitely small, but gigantically large.

So, let me try. I have a pea. It is the size and diameter of the center of my plate. How big is my pea?


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## trance (Jun 3, 2015)

Isn't Beerus like, solar system level compared to Chakravartin's star level ranking?


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## P-X 12 (Jun 3, 2015)

LoveLessNHK said:


> What does that even mean?
> 
> When I read that I imagine the center of the galaxy as some infinitesimally small point in space, zero dimensions.
> 
> ...



What are you on about?



That's what's meant by center of the galaxy (not exactly center, but whatever).

EDIT: Seems like it's fixed, but just in case:


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## Atem (Jun 3, 2015)

LoveLessNHK said:


> What does that even mean?







> When I read that I imagine the center of the galaxy as some infinitesimally small point in space, zero dimensions.



Well, you would be wrong. 



> Clearly you meant to imply the opposite though. Not infinitely small, but gigantically large.



No, you haven't played the game we see the center of the galaxy under Chakravartin and it's comparable in size to him. The complete works clarified what it was, and what he was doing to the whole Milky Way galaxy.



> So, let me try. I have a pea. It is the size and diameter of the center of my plate. How big is my pea?


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## LoveLessNHK (Jun 3, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Well, you would be wrong.



Yeah, well, I didn't particularly think I was "right", I just literally had no idea what you meant. So far as my brain was registering, "center" could have meant a lot of different sizes depending on the interpretation of what a center is.


This cleared it up. Thanks.


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## Atem (Jun 3, 2015)

Alright then.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (Jun 3, 2015)

We've never seen Beerus Solar System Bust, but it was implied that he can.  However, he can casually destroy two stars, and he's massively FTL in reactions.  I'm really not seeing how chakravartin wins even with his hax.

BoG was a huge upgrade for DBZ.


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## Imperator100 (Jun 3, 2015)

How was he massively FTL in reactions?


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## CapFalcon (Jun 3, 2015)

Since some guys brought the Giant Golden Form to this debate and the debate turned about how really big is Chakravartin's Giant Golden Form, just in case, I am using this form of Chakravartin:


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

CapFalcon said:


> Since some guys brought the Giant Golden Form to this debate and the debate turned about how really big is Chakravartin's Giant Golden Form, just in case, I am using this form of Chakravartin:



Doesn't matter what form you use. Chakravartin was responsible for creating that giant-ass statue-looking form of his to begin with anyway. So no matter the size, Chakravartin's still got a lot of power going for him. 

Asura's Wrath's latest upgrade just put it above Dragon Ball again so yeah, Chakravartin wins this.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 4, 2015)

I thought this was going to be a good fight, but now I am convinced that Chakravartin wins with low diff.


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## Atem (Jun 4, 2015)

TheSweetFleshofDeath said:


> We've never seen Beerus Solar System Bust, but it was implied that he can.  However, he can casually destroy two stars, and he's massively FTL in reactions.  I'm really not seeing how chakravartin wins even with his hax.
> 
> BoG was a huge upgrade for DBZ.



Speed is not an issue since Asura could react to lasers fired from the galactic center and dodge them right as they're about to hit him; lasers which I calculated at around thirty-two billion c. 

Chakravartin should be as fast as him at least.


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## Nevermind (Jun 4, 2015)

And yet the actual visuals in the game suggest something nowhere near that size.


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## svengali (Jun 4, 2015)

Peoples are seriously underestimating chakravartin here, are you forgetting that he created THE WHOLE ASURA'S WRATH  SETTING!? . That's clearly puts him at universal level.


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

svengali said:


> Peoples are seriously underestimating chakravartin here, are you forgetting that *he created THE WHOLE ASURA'S WRATH  SETTING!? . That's clearly puts him at universal level.*



No. The thing is that "creation" shit is vague as fuck.

Those "worlds" could simply refer to other planets with life.

So no, he's not universal. Nowhere near that. The universal shit's already been debunked 3 years ago so don't bother with it.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 4, 2015)

Nevermind said:


> And yet the actual visuals in the game suggest something nowhere near that size.



I think is due to the game limitations why the Karma Fortress or Chakravartin Golden Form doesn't look in the game as big as they are in the Complete Works.

A game has limitations on what it can handle in terms of frame rate and hardware, and Asura's Wrath was released on last-gen consoles that don't have as much frame rate and hardware capabilities as current-gen consoles.

The AW's complete works is what the creator of the game really intended to do, he intended to make the Karma Fortress being star size, but he couldn't due to the game limitations, and that's why the Karma Fortress looks smaller in the game than in the AW's complete works.


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## Haro (Jun 4, 2015)

>MFTL bills

Fuckin yeah right


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## Warlordgab (Jun 4, 2015)

I'd like to see the calc that makes Beerus MFTL, because last time I checked Beerus is relativistic and only Whis is capable of MFTL travel by using his magical staff


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

MFTL comes from Bills destroying 2 stars outside his Nebula.

Whether or not that feat was considered legit, can't say.


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2015)

Liquid said:


> MFTL comes from Bills destroying 2 stars outside his Nebula.
> 
> Whether or not that feat was considered legit, can't say.



Best to wait for the movie to come out on video before making a judgment on that.

Regardless, Beerus can't really hurt Chakravartin. So he loses this match.


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## Warlordgab (Jun 4, 2015)

Well, the movie will hit venezuelan theaters in just 3 weeks so I guess I'll get to judge that sooner 

And I agree with *NightmareCinema*, Chakravartin wins this battle


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## Atem (Jun 4, 2015)

svengali said:


> Peoples are seriously underestimating chakravartin here, are you forgetting that he created THE WHOLE ASURA'S WRATH  SETTING!? . That's clearly puts him at universal level.



No, not at all. We know he made Naraku which is another dimension but that's of an unknown size. We don't actually know if he created the Asura's Wrath universe or if he just created the planet which is more likely because of the Gohma. 



Nevermind said:


> And yet the actual visuals in the game suggest something nowhere near that size.



Yeah, but if we apply that to Beerus too instead of going off officially stated or assumed sizes those planets at the end of BoG are fucking tiny. 

Which I don't want to do and it would be unfair to apply the "visuals are inconsistent here" and not do the same with Beerus.


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## Sablés (Jun 4, 2015)

NightmareCinema said:


> Best to wait for the movie to come out on video before making a judgment on that.
> 
> Regardless, Beerus can't really hurt Chakravartin. So he loses this match.



More or less 



Rytlock Brimstone said:


> No, not at all. We know he made Naraku which is another dimension but that's of an unknown size. We don't actually know if he created the Asura's Wrath universe or if he just created the planet which is more likely because of the Gohma.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



uh

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we did concerning the planets around Beerus' temple. Though DB already had precedence with King Kai's planet to be fair.


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## Atem (Jun 4, 2015)

Liquid said:


> I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we did concerning the planets around Beerus' temple. Though DB already had precedence with King Kai's planet to be fair.



I disagree with it then because those planets clearly had an atmosphere and it's impossible for that to be the case if they were that tiny. Which makes them discernibly different than King Kai's planet.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jun 4, 2015)

Gwyn stahp


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## Atem (Jun 5, 2015)

Ultimate Deathsaurer said:


> Gwyn stahp



No, it was stupid like the Naruto planet is huge as fuck by Fluffybear or whatever his name was but backwards into those planets are tiny as fuck. 

Plus it was by that Planetary Masturbation Guy.


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## Ultimate Deathsaurer (Jun 5, 2015)

Everyone conceded visuals screwed them over.


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## Atem (Jun 5, 2015)

Fine but I still think it's stupid.


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## Galo de Lion (Jun 5, 2015)

Going by new revalations, Chakravatin stomps.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jun 5, 2015)

CapFalcon said:


> I think is due to the game limitations why the Karma Fortress or Chakravartin Golden Form doesn't look in the game as big as they are in the Complete Works.
> 
> A game has limitations on what it can handle in terms of frame rate and hardware, and Asura's Wrath was released on last-gen consoles that don't have as much frame rate and hardware capabilities as current-gen consoles.
> 
> The AW's complete works is what the creator of the game really intended to do, he intended to make the Karma Fortress being star size, but he couldn't due to the game limitations, and that's why the Karma Fortress looks smaller in the game than in the AW's complete works.



For once I actually have to agree with CapFalcon


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## Nevermind (Jun 5, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Yeah, but if we apply that to Beerus too instead of going off officially stated or assumed sizes those planets at the end of BoG are fucking tiny.



Which is exactly how we regard them.



CapFalcon said:


> I think is due to the game limitations why the Karma Fortress or Chakravartin Golden Form doesn't look in the game as big as they are in the Complete Works.
> 
> A game has limitations on what it can handle in terms of frame rate and hardware, and Asura's Wrath was released on last-gen consoles that don't have as much frame rate and hardware capabilities as current-gen consoles.
> 
> The AW's complete works is what the creator of the game really intended to do, he intended to make the Karma Fortress being star size, but he couldn't due to the game limitations, and that's why the Karma Fortress looks smaller in the game than in the AW's complete works.



Irrelevant. The visuals in the primary canon always overrule secondary sources like databooks when the two conflict. The OBD doesn't follow the "author intent" argument.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 6, 2015)

Nevermind said:


> Irrelevant. The visuals in the primary canon always overrule secondary sources like databooks when the two conflict. The OBD doesn't follow the "author intent" argument.



I am aware of that, but for some reason, looks like is more accepted the sizes of Karma Fortress and Golden Form Chakravartin of AW's Complete Works than the game itself.


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

The fortress thing being as big as it is seems more like a lack of actual shots to properly scale it in-game, as opposed to the rather straightforward visual comparing its size to the Earth we're given in the artbook.

Wouldn't really say the visuals contradict anything there.

As for Chakravartin, him being galaxy sized or what have you probably ain't gonna fly.


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## Atem (Jun 6, 2015)

Where is he getting star size for the karma fortress even in the complete materials it's not that big. Bigger yeah but not by that much. 

At the very least is the fact Charkravartin in the center of the galaxy still acceptable because I see no reason to dismiss that. 

As for Chakravarmy's size what's there contradicting it? All I remember was that one blog Brohan did where he scaled Chaky from Destructor Asura. Which is also contradicted even in the fight itself when Chaky creates a Rigel-like sun. 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIQWPe7zfY[/YOUTUBE]

9:26-9:42

Makes a sun go supernova, Asura destroys it, and a whole solar system gets blown to smithereens. 

10:52-11:00

Able to hurl at least three normal suns at once at Asura.

11:00-11:10

The blue sun which gets destroyed by Asura. Which is smaller than Chakramarmy. 

We're not going to be like "that was a tiny blue sun" and treat this the same as those planets Beerus destroyed because there's even less reason to suspect as such because Asura's Wrath doesn't have examples of tiny celestial bodies like DBZ does. 

Unless we're going to use this as that one example. 

Also, no "that was gameplay only" rebuttals Chaos doesn't like it and I don't either.

Anyway, so we got three sizes here. Brohan's, bigger than a blue sun, and the size of the galactic center. The third seems like an outlier when put next to those two.


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## CapFalcon (Jun 6, 2015)

Rytlock Brimstone said:


> Where is he getting star size for the karma fortress even in the complete materials it's not that big. Bigger yeah but not by that much.



I am getting star size Karma Fortress because of this:


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

Your sense of scale is fucked.


			
				Me said:
			
		

> Jesus jumped up christ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.


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## Atem (Jun 6, 2015)

CapFalcon said:


> I am getting star size Karma Fortress because of this:



Which seems weird because the earth and the moon are the same size in it. 

They are also not as tiny in comparison to the earth in the second picture.


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## Atem (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Your sense of scale is fucked.
> .



Okay that explains it but not why the moon is about as big as the earth in it.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jun 6, 2015)

The moon looks smaller to me, it just has an equally wide reaching glow (at least, it looks to me like the very middle dot is the actual moon/earth, with the dot for the moon being smaller but the shine having a much longer radius than earth)


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> The moon looks smaller to me, it just has an equally wide reaching glow (at least, it looks to me like the very middle dot is the actual moon/earth, with the dot for the moon being smaller but the shine having a much longer radius than earth)


Yeah, pretty much.

Just kind of difficult to see with the shitty scan.


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## Atem (Jun 6, 2015)

Didn't take the distance and angular scaling into account. I had thought the Karma Fortress was right next to them. 



ClassicGameGuys said:


> The moon looks smaller to me, it just has an equally wide reaching glow (at least, it looks to me like the very middle dot is the actual moon/earth, with the dot for the moon being smaller but the shine having a much longer radius than earth)



They look like the same size to me in it with the earth having a brighter glow but whatever.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Jun 6, 2015)

Regicide said:


> Yeah, pretty much.
> 
> Just kind of difficult to see with the shitty scan.



Yeah, looks like it was taken with a phone camera or something


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## Regicide (Jun 6, 2015)

It was apparently taken with an iPad scanning app or some shit.


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