# Lord Katakuri vs Admiral Kizaru



## Furinji Saiga (Sep 22, 2017)

Forgive me for the title, I have been infected. 

Location: Marineford

I was "inspired" by this retardation

Want to see what people here think.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## savior2005 (Sep 22, 2017)

kizaru wins high diff. im not gonna waste my time watching that video, its prolly a buncha admiral haters who posted that. no first mate of a yonko can beat a c3 admiral

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## MO (Sep 22, 2017)

savior2005 said:


> kizaru wins high diff. im not gonna waste my time watching that video, its prolly a buncha admiral haters who posted that. no first mate of a yonko can beat a c3 admiral


----------



## Ruse (Sep 22, 2017)

Admirals > First mates

Kizaru high diff


----------



## Furinji Saiga (Sep 22, 2017)

I dont think high diff is even needed, mid diff seems more reasonable for Katakuri.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 3 | Dislike 1


----------



## Ruse (Sep 22, 2017)

hmm I probably rate first mates higher than most

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Yuki (Sep 22, 2017)

High dif for an admiral to beat a FM. They are the closest thing to admirals.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 22, 2017)

If Katakuri mid-diffs G4 Luffy, I'll rank him closer to Marco. Kizaru high-diffs until we see more from Katakuri.


----------



## Yuki (Sep 22, 2017)

King Itachi said:


> If Katakuri mid-diffs G4 Luffy, I'll rank him closer to Marco. Kizaru high-diffs until we see more from Katakuri.



Imo All first mates should be considered close just like all Admirals are. If Luffy puts up a good fight it's just coz he is that strong now and Oda is telling us this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Neutral 1


----------



## Nox (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm taking an Admiral over any Yonko Commander excluding the _completed_ BB Pirates.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Sep 22, 2017)

Yuki said:


> Imo All first mates should be considered close just like all Admirals are. If Luffy puts up a good fight it's just coz he is that strong now and Oda is telling us this.



You're probably right. They might be close in power, but Marco is definitely the strongest one when there is going to be a winner. Kind of like how Akainu is marginally stronger than the other admirals


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru mid diffs. 

Marco > Katakuri because of regeneration.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## trance (Sep 23, 2017)

Katakuri is still relatively lacking in feats 

could be anywhere from mid to high difficulty

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## DA hawk (Sep 23, 2017)

Jelly beans Vs lasers. 

Yeah, I'm going with the latter.


----------



## Nekochako (Sep 23, 2017)

Katakuri has never been kicked at the speed off light. Kizaru mid diffs.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru win this high diff. KOL is high and in favor of Katakuri.

I don't know why some people voting mid diff. but can you please explain? Jesus, Katakuri is such a beast. He can see the future, and don't tell me because of AOE of Kizaru sure but your not going to hit Kata with that because he had logia's properties as well or I miss some feat of Kizaru or something?


----------



## Seraphoenix (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> Kizaru win this high diff. KOL is high and in favor of Katakuri.
> 
> I don't know why some people voting mid diff. but can you please explain? Jesus, Katakuri is such a beast. He can see the future, and don't tell me because of AOE of Kizaru sure but your not going to hit Kata with that because he had logia's properties as well or I miss some feat of Kizaru or something?



Admiral fans who won't give actual reasons based on the manga.

Marco overpowered Kizaru in cqc and Kizaru could only get an advantage with Marco being distracted twice by WB and getting help from a VA.

Katakuri has shown CoO on a whole other level to what Kizaru has and his CoA isn't weak either. Like you said the lasers won't do much given how Kata's fruit works.

We will need to see more but I don't think Kizaru is winning this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Seraphoenix said:


> Admiral fans who won't give actual reasons based on the manga.
> 
> Marco overpowered Kizaru in cqc and Kizaru could only get an advantage with Marco being distracted twice by WB and getting help from a VA.
> 
> ...


Actually i'm a little bias myself cause I rank Admirals a bit better to the FM but feat wise not in terms of destruction capabilities Katakuri is equal to what we've seen to Kizaru far better at least in Coo.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> Actually i'm a little bias myself cause I rank Admirals a bit better to the FM but feat wise not in terms of destruction capabilities Katakuri is equal to what we've seen to Kizaru far better at least in Coo.



No problem with that. I rate FM's above them. Either way it is close.

People saying mid diff though are living in a fantasy world.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Geralt-Singh (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru wins obviously, high to extreme diff at worst.


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> I don't know why some people voting mid diff. but can you please explain? Jesus, Katakuri is such a beast. He can see the future, and don't tell me because of AOE of Kizaru sure but your not going to hit Kata with that because he had logia's properties as well or I miss some feat of Kizaru or something?




Superior speed.
Swordsmanship on the level to compete with Rayleigh.
Precise laser attack with superior DC.
Superior DC overall scaling from other Admirals.
Superior durability & damage soak based on Akainu's performance. 
Enraged Marco & Vista's surprise attack only managed to irritate Akainu. Katakuri or any other top YC level fighters yet to show DC attacks capable of bringing top tiers (Yonko/Admiral) to their knees.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Superior speed.
> 
> Swordsmanship on the level to compete with Rayleigh.
> 
> ...


-Speed mean nothing to the guy who can predict your next moves because as far as we know in terms of speed no one in the series can match Kizaru then, maybe except Enel.
-I agree with this.
-Precise laser attack with superior DC? how is that going to work with someone whose body is like Logia and who have a great Coo?
-again not going to work but I agree AOE of Kizaru is one of the best in the series but it's not going to work without Haki as far as we know no one puts Haki on their attack like Fujitora meteor or Kizaru laser.
-I agree with superior durability but this doesn't mean the fight will go mid diff. it's not enough reason.
-we don't know how that works we need a better explanation on that and we don't know if Kizaru and Akainu will have the same tanking abilities and again the person DC is not that effective with someone like logia properties you need to go cqc with them.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> -Speed mean nothing to the guy who can predict your next moves because as far as we know in terms of speed no one in the series can match Kizaru then, maybe except Enel.



Kizaru also has CoO. 

And did you forget Luffy's fight against sneke sisters in Amazon Lily?



> -Precise laser attack with superior DC? how is that going to work with someone whose body is like Logia and who have a great Coo?



Did you see those explosions laser makes? Capable of taking out those big ass mangrove trees? 

He has logia like properties. He isn't a full logia. And if he is caught inside the explosion it's not going to work what type of body he has.  



> -again not going to work but I agree AOE of Kizaru is one of the best in the series but it's not going to work without Haki as far as we know no one puts Haki on their attack like Fujitora meteor or Kizaru laser.



Again no need to put haki on lasers.

And his physical stat would be superior anyway based on Admirals feat of fighting however injured WB. That applies to CQC as well. 



> -I agree with superior durability but this doesn't mean the fight will go mid diff. it's not enough reason.



It's not just superior durability. 

It's all of the above. Superior DC, stamina, durability, speed everything combined.



> -we don't know how that works we need a better explanation on that and we don't know if Kizaru and Akainu will have the same tanking abilities and again the person DC is not that effective with someone like logia properties you need to go cqc with them.



Admirals has been portrayed being extremely close to each other. So yeah, we can scale based on each other.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> And did you forget Luffy's fight against sneke sisters in Amazon Lily?


So did Luffy, he has Coo and what about this with snake sister?


Sherlōck said:


> Did you see those explosions laser makes? Capable of taking out those big ass mangrove trees?
> 
> He has logia like properties. He isn't a full logia. And if he is caught inside the explosion it's not going to work what type of body he has


Yes, I see and Marco who have Zoan fruit but also works like Logia only by pass it and why not? all of what we seen to Katakuri is like Logia.


Sherlōck said:


> Again no need to put haki on lasers.


I disagree you need Haki.


Sherlōck said:


> And his physical stat would be superior anyway based on Admirals feat of fighting however injured WB. That applies to CQC as well.


I agree with this but Katakuri shown impressive cqc as well, he will lose but not mid diff.


Sherlōck said:


> t's not just superior durability.
> 
> It's all of the above. Superior DC, stamina, durability, speed everything combined.


I totally agree with this now think what Katakuri can do here as well. it's not just he's going to let Kizaru kick his ass and do nothing and we saw him capable of doing things much better in terms of what we saw in Fujitora case. agree?


Sherlōck said:


> Admirals has been portrayed being extremely close to each other. So yeah, we can scale based on each other.


Agree specially the C3 but with overall feat alone Katakuri have been impressive than Marco only thing Marco is better is his regeneration and we saw Marco can hang with the Admirals.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 23, 2017)

Seraphoenix said:


> Admiral fans who won't give actual reasons based on the manga.
> 
> Marco overpowered Kizaru in cqc and Kizaru could only get an advantage with Marco being distracted twice by WB and getting help from a VA.
> 
> ...


Katakuri beat kizaru  

Anyway we dont know how strong kata is so the range is pretty big. Based on hype alone though he gives mid diff at a minimum. Safe bet would be High diff win for Kizaru.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> So did Luffy, he has Coo and what about this with snake sister?



That Luffy kicked Snake sisters ass with sheer speed when he didn't have CoO but they did. That even though they knew what Luffy was going to do in advance they couldn't do shit?



> Yes, I see and Marco who have Zoan fruit but also works like Logia only by pass it and why not? all of what we seen to Katakuri is like Logia.



Marco did take on the full attack head on & managed to survive because of regeneration. Katakuri doesn't have it.



> I disagree you need Haki.
> 
> I agree with this but Katakuri shown impressive cqc as well, he will lose but not mid diff.



You don't if you are in the middle of the explosion. Logia like capabilities ain't going to do shit. You are going to take the full burn of the attack. If you are strong enough, have haki strong enough then maybe you can't get out of it with little injury but so far nothing suggests Katakury can take the attack head on.



> I totally agree with this now think what Katakuri can do here as well. it's not just he's going to let Kizaru kick his ass and do nothing and* we saw him capable of doing things much better in terms of what we saw in Fujitora case. agree?*





Fujitora dicked around the whole Dressrosa. He effortlessly floated all the rubble in Dressrosa which included the whole Pica statue. Even Sabo couldn't scratch him & he noted that Fujitora wasn't even serious.



> Agree specially the C3 but with overall feat alone Katakuri have been impressive than Marco only thing Marco is better is his regeneration and we saw Marco can hang with the Admirals.



Whether Marco or Katakuri is better is a subjective opinion. I think Marco will win 10 out of 10 fights against Katakuri. Hanging with an Admiral for a minute isn't impressive it's expected from top YC commander not to get rag dolled.


----------



## Milkydean (Sep 23, 2017)

Katakuri will likely lose but only with the help of scalings.I don't think feats from Kizaru are anything extraordinary.He got overpowered against Marco and fought against an old Rayleigh who still stalemated him.But he still has superior scalings due to Akainu and Aokizi which means a high a diff fight for him.
I also think Kizaru's speed is overrated.Marco matched his speed and G4 luffy should likely match him too.I just don't see speed as being a big factor in fight in OP.It's generally durability and power that decides the match.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Lord Stark (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru wins high diff.  Only FM that can push a C3 Admiral to extreme diff is Marco the Phoenix.


----------



## Seraphoenix (Sep 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> That Luffy kicked Snake sisters ass with sheer speed when he didn't have CoO but they did. That even though they knew what Luffy was going to do in advance they couldn't do shit?


-Kizaru is so fast that he outsped Rayleigh and Marco right? Now he is going to outspeed someone who should have similar stats to Marco but also can see 3 seconds into the future?  Kizaru speedblizing pre-skip Supernova is not that impressive.





Sherlōck said:


> Marco did take on the full attack head on & managed to survive because of regeneration. Katakuri doesn't have it.


-Or maybe Kata dodges? Or uses CoA?or uses his fruit to make a CoA wall to block? Marco tanked it to protect the ship and WB.




Sherlōck said:


> You don't if you are in the middle of the explosion. Logia like capabilities ain't going to do shit. You are going to take the full burn of the attack. If you are strong enough, have haki strong enough then maybe you can't get out of it with little injury but so far nothing suggests Katakury can take the attack head on.


-Nothing suggests Kizaru can hurt someone with hardening with lasers.
-Based on how he dealt with Luffy's punches where it made holes but no damage, lasers are not going to do anything.
-Based on the latest chapter Kizaru would have a lot of trouble in cqc



Sherlōck said:


> Fujitora dicked around the whole Dressrosa. He effortlessly floated all the rubble in Dressrosa which included the whole Pica statue. Even Sabo couldn't scratch him & he noted that Fujitora wasn't even serious.


-Sabo never noted anything like that. Nice fanfic
-Fujitora was the one who was using named moves while Sabo, who's only goal was to stop the navy, didn't use one named move and was training his fruit. He was more serious vs Burgess.
-Fujitora even apologises to Sabo that he has to uphold his position of admiral despite him facing the no.2 of the Revo army
-Fujiora even believed him getting stalled by Sabo is an appropriate excuse for Akainu
-If you want to say Fuji beat Sabo based on scuff marks then a non-serious G2/3 Luffy did the same to Fujitora.
-What does that rubble help against people like Sabo who is a logia? Or people who have mountain level attacks like Luffy, Zoro or Law? Do you remember Luffy was going to destroy an island sized ship in G3? Kata could do the same and easier based on the latest chapter without even trying.






Sherlōck said:


> Whether Marco or Katakuri is better is a subjective opinion. I think Marco will win 10 out of 10 fights against Katakuri. Hanging with an Admiral for a minute isn't impressive it's expected from top YC commander not to get rag dolled.


-Did you expect an admiral to get ragdolled the way Marco treated Kizaru like a beach ball? The way he kicked Aokiji out of the way like that too? There is nothing in the manga that suggests the admirals are physically stronger than the top commanders. The opposite seems the case with admirals needing distractions and hax fruits to get an advantage over them. Before that they could not get any advantage over them one on one. The only person to outright physically overpower Marco was Garp. Not even Akainu could move him.
-Nothing suggests Marco is special among FM's



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Katakuri beat kizaru
> 
> Anyway we dont know how strong kata is so the range is pretty big. Based on hype alone though he gives mid diff at a minimum. Safe bet would be High diff win for Kizaru.



Kizaru beating Kata in a straight one on one when he needed help to get an advantage over Marco.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> That Luffy kicked Snake sisters ass with sheer speed when he didn't have CoO but they did. That even though they knew what Luffy was going to do in advance they couldn't do shit?


Boa sister Coo is nothing compare to Katakuri, Enel is more impressive in terms of coo than boa sisters.


Sherlōck said:


> Marco did take on the full attack head on & managed to survive because of regeneration. Katakuri doesn't have it.


Sorry about this, but I mean is the second one where Marco by pass everything Kizaru throw at him.


Sherlōck said:


> You don't if you are in the middle of the explosion. Logia like capabilities ain't going to do shit. You are going to take the full burn of the attack. If you are strong enough, have haki strong enough then maybe you can't get out of it with little injury but so far nothing suggests Katakury can take the attack head on.


I really don't get you here, He's logia or like a logia so it means he can't get any damage even if that was fire. it will only past thru him. right? that's how I know Logia works it only hurt them by something for example Crocodile by water and with Haki.


Sherlōck said:


> Fujitora dicked around the whole Dressrosa. He effortlessly floated all the rubble in Dressrosa which included the whole Pica statue. Even Sabo couldn't scratch him & he noted that Fujitora wasn't even serious.


I was talking about Fujitora Vs Luffy, Fuji is serious about fighting Luffy and he's really trying about his cqc he just decided to spare them when he feel what people of Dressrosa is doing.


Sherlōck said:


> Whether Marco or Katakuri is better is a subjective opinion. I think Marco will win 10 out of 10 fights against Katakuri. Hanging with an Admiral for a minute isn't impressive it's expected from top YC commander not to get rag dolled.


I'm not sure about that 10 out of 10 as far as we know only thing Marco is above to Katakuri is his regeneration. how do we know that the Admiral is not the one doing the hanging part? as far as I can see Marco is just not hanging there he's actually capable of going toe to toe with them and with his fruit who knows maybe a days of battle and it was expected to YC commander(specially the strongest) to fight with them equally after a long fight.

But lets agree to disagree here.


----------



## Sherlōck (Sep 23, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> Boa sister Coo is nothing compare to Katakuri, Enel is more impressive in terms of coo than boa sisters.



You didn't understand what I was saying. 



> ~snip~
> 
> But lets agree to disagree here.



Spend some time in OBD. You will have a better understanding about how VS battle works. 

Yeah, lets end it here but just ask yourself when do you see Luffy taking down an Admiral after this Katakuri fight & how much Luffy would have improved by then & you will have your answer.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> You didn't understand what I was saying.


Yeah, I understand but I said despite that Boa sister Coo means nothing if you compare that to Katakuri currently in the series he is the best user of Coo.


Sherlōck said:


> Spend some time in OBD. You will have a better understanding about how VS battle works.
> 
> Yeah, lets end it here but just ask yourself when do you see Luffy taking down an Admiral after this Katakuri fight & how much Luffy would have improved by then & you will have your answer.


Yes, that's why I give Kizaru the High Diff cause I also consider the next time we saw Kizaru what we know of him in feats will get much more impressive but in all of this base in feat alone and what we know so far it should have been extreme diff. but that's just my opinion. Lets just respectfully disagree on what difficulty the other gave.


----------



## Admiral Kizaru (Sep 23, 2017)

KoL 

He was an idiot back then and he's an even bigger idiot right now. 


OT:

Kizaru simply has better portrayal, feats, hype, gravitas and just status. No question he wins this. 

I lean towards medium difficulty at this stage though I may alter it to high depending on what we see from Katak ..... sorry where are my manners, I mean Lord Katakuri in his upcoming clash with Luffy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3 | Dislike 1


----------



## Ultimate Ningen (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru casually headshots him by lightbeam, no diff


----------



## MYJC (Sep 23, 2017)

Kizaru with high-to-extreme diff.


----------



## Magnet40 (Sep 23, 2017)

The YouTuber in that video is The King Of Lightning he’s hilarious, he’s not really nerdy or a weirdo like alot of anime/manga fans are which clicks well with @drew8324 an I cause we aren’t weirdos or lacking in urban culture like alot of the anime/manga weebs we know.



I’m going to go with Katakuri just cause everyone is going with Kizaru...

I remember Kenboshuku haki being exceptionally good at predicting moves with higher killing intent. 

Also its been shown that Katakuri’s ken seemed to be VERY exceptional. (There seems to be different routes of ken as Usopp/Fuji’s seems to be different) so what’s to say that even if Kizaru has superior speed, that Katakuri cannot keep up. Isn’t that what Rayleigh did?

Also unlike Rayleigh Katakuri can extent his limbs and produce Mochi, he possibly can make Mochi/Haki walls to block AOE attacks if his somewhat Logia doesn’t allow the light to phase through him. Also I’m not sure but I don’t think you can coat beams of light in haki. I could be wrong.

So it seems like it’d result in a CQC fight, and we know haki can work on Kizaru, just like it did on Akainu (Kinda hahaha) but we saw haki against Katakuri. It hasn’t worked yet.... so take that as yal like. Maybe the fight is closer than you think.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 23, 2017)

Lord Katakuri wins with high to extremely high difficulty in my opinion.  Kizaru has an edge in speed from what we've seen so far but that's offset if not negated with Lord Katakuri's amazing Observation Haki.  We can't yet factually rank either of their physical strength but so far I'm more impressed with Lord Katakuri's, as he has shown that he can even overpower Gear 3rd Luffy, who in turn has pushed back Fujitora which suggests that in terms of physical strength Gear 3rd Luffy is > Fujitora even if Fujitora is superior overall.

Defensively we have no idea.  Both characters seem relatively difficult to land blows on.  Kizaru has Logia Devil Fruit Abilities and Lord Katakuri might as well have Logia Devil Fruit Abilities.  Both are very evasive as well.  I rank Kizaru's Devil Fruit Abilities superior but I also rank Lord Katakuri's Haki superior.

So overall they seem mostly even in terms of skills.

Another thing is that Rayleigh implies that Luffy shouldn't go to The New World if an invasion of Kizaru, Kuma, Sentoumaru, several PXs or so, and many Marines can do something comparable to what they do in The Sabaody Arc.  Which makes me think that Rayleigh is at least confident in Luffy's ability to fend off that invasion.  The idea of Kizaru being able to defeat Luffy half a year ago with any less than around mid difficulty if that same Luffy can fend off an invasion that includes more than just Kizaru doesn't add up.  Luffy is even more powerful at the beginning of Post Time Skip.  Lord Katakuri is wiping the floor with Luffy so far.  So in other words Lord Katakuri > Lord Cracker => Dressrosa Arc Luffy (who is arguably around or close to Admiral level) > beginning of Post Time Skip Luffy > Luffy half a year ago (who should be capable of at least giving Kizaru around mid difficulty if not more).  There's also a possibility that Luffy is even more powerful now than he was in The Dressrosa Arc.  Especially since he is coming up with new Forms.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 23, 2017)

What's the point in saying Admiral in the thread title?  It seems unnecessary.  Just call him Kizaru.  Jeez.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


----------



## Magnet40 (Sep 23, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Lord Katakuri wins with high to extremely high difficulty in my opinion.  Kizaru has an edge in speed from what we've seen so far but that's offset if not negated with Lord Katakuri's amazing Observation Haki.  We can't yet factually rank either of their physical strength but so far I'm more impressed with Lord Katakuri's, as he has shown that he can even overpower Gear 3rd Luffy, who in turn has pushed back Fujitora which suggests that in terms of physical strength Gear 3rd Luffy is > Fujitora even if Fujitora is superior overall.
> 
> Defensively we have no idea.  Both characters seem relatively difficult to land blows on.  Kizaru has Logia Devil Fruit Abilities and Lord Katakuri might as well have Logia Devil Fruit Abilities.  Both are very evasive as well.  I rank Kizaru's Devil Fruit Abilities superior but I also rank Lord Katakuri's Haki superior.
> 
> ...




Love the Godakuri hype but I think Kizaru might edge this out some. As much as I want to say All Yonko 1st Commander is = to Admirals I still can’t shake the feeling that it isn’t the case.

But the think you said about Fuji getting pushed back by Gear 3rd is absolute nonsense... he didn’t even use hardening on his little ass sword when this blind old man was confident enough to put it against “a giants fist” 

He was being nice to Luffy the whole time. Quit it Gohara theres no way you HONESTLY believe Fujitora used his 100% Physical effort (no haki or df enhancement) to block that... and lets say he used his absolute 100% physical strength to block that attack. He still has Buso haki he could add to the blade to either cease the attack right there or stop it from pushing him at all. Im positive.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 23, 2017)

Not using Haki is indeed a disadvantage, but so is Luffy being battle worn.  Plus Lord Katakuri is overpowering Gear 3rd Luffy without much of a problem so far.  So Lord Katakuri's physical strength is decisively if not significantly > a fully healed Gear 3rd Luffy's.  A battle worn Gear 3rd Luffy's physical strength is > a Hakiless Fujitora's.

As for personality Luffy is also nice to Fujitora.  He even tells Fujitora what he's going to do.  Which is another advantage for Fujitora.  Both characters have their advantages in that match up.


----------



## Kylo Ren (Sep 23, 2017)

Magnet40 said:


> The YouTuber in that video is The King Of Lightning he’s hilarious, he’s not really nerdy or a weirdo like alot of anime/manga fans are which clicks well with @drew8324 an I cause we aren’t weirdos or lacking in urban culture like alot of the anime/manga weebs we know.


I agree his not very smart when it's come to this thing he even almost said judge a top 5 but boy he is the funniest one.


----------



## Orca (Sep 24, 2017)

Kizaru definitely wins. But honestly need to see more Admiral/Yonko FM interactions to say how big the gap is.


----------



## Magnet40 (Sep 24, 2017)

Don Elson said:


> I agree his not very smart when it's come to this thing he even almost said judge a top 5 but boy he is the funniest one.



Exactly... compared to ththe other reviewers out there, he’s hilarious an I like that he just doesn’t give af and isnt hella weeby. But yeah that Judge top 5 stuff was hilarious. 

To be honest though, when we were first hearing about Judge, I thought he POTENTIALLY could be like High Vice Admiral level (those exceptional Vice Admirals, like the three that we known were nominated to be the new Admirals) but it appears as if he’s shown nearly all he can do. Smh I kinda liked Judge too


----------



## Captain Altintop (Sep 24, 2017)

Kizaru would need *high* ( mid ) diff. to beat Marco. 

Assuming Katakuri is between Marco and Jozu which leads to Kizaru defeating him with *high* ( very low ) diff.


----------



## Lee-Sensei (Sep 25, 2017)

Kizaru wins with High Dif IMO.


----------



## Bernkastel (Sep 25, 2017)

Kizaru wins high diff...on the lower end though...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Gohara (Sep 25, 2017)

Sherlōck said:


> Superior speed.
> Swordsmanship on the level to compete with Rayleigh.
> Precise laser attack with superior DC.
> Superior DC overall scaling from other Admirals.
> ...



-We don't even know the limits of Lord Katakuri's speed yet.  Kizaru being faster wouldn't be strange of course and for now I also give him an edge in that aspect though.  Still, amazing Observation Haki is a great counter to amazing speed in addition to Lord Katakuri already showing great speed in his own right.

-Lord Katakuri isn't a swordsman so that doesn't necessarily matter.  Plus just because Kizaru clashes with Old Rayleigh in swordsmanship doesn't necessarily mean that his swordsmanship skills are in the same league as Old Rayleigh's.  Vista did even superior against Mihawk than Kizaru does against Old Rayleigh and we know that Mihawk's swordsmanship skills are significantly superior to Vista's.

-True, Kizaru's aim is amazing, but so are Lord Katakuri's evasive Abilities.

-That's not necessarily confirmed.  Gear 3rd Luffy several Arcs ago is capable of destroying an Island sized Ship and Lord Katakuri's offense is significantly superior to Gear 3rd Luffy's.  Plus superior destructive Abilities =/= more powerful overall.  There are multiple characters in the series who are around and/or above Admiral level and yet have not shown as many destructive Abilities as the Admirals such as Old Garp and Old Rayleigh.

-We know almost nothing about Lord Katakuri's defense outside of it being difficult to land a blow on him which is in his character's favor so I'm not sure why Kizaru would automatically get an edge in that aspect nor is Kizaru Pre Time Skip Akainu.

-Excluding surprise blows that same exact reasoning can be reversed.  No Admiral has shown that they can do that against a top Yonkou Commander level character either.  Plus, not to nitpick, but hasn't Marco actually sent both Aokiji and Kizaru flying to the ground?  Since you suggested that no top Yonkou Commander level character has gotten an Admiral off their feet on screen so far.


----------



## Nidai Kitetsu (Sep 25, 2017)

Kizaru wins this; but anybody who thinks its any less than high diff shouldnt be taken seriously.


----------



## Shrike (Sep 26, 2017)

We haven't seen much from Katakuri. He shits on G2/3 Luffy, that's all, and that's what both Cracker and DD did before him as well. Once we see more, we can assess his strength, but I highly doubt it that he can take Kizaru.

Kizaru should take him down with some difficulty.


----------



## Samehadaman (Sep 26, 2017)

You really get that community feeling of knowing each other from these threads. 
You know it will be everyone giving Kizaru the win except Gohara, who is guaranteed to participate and post that a "Lord" wins.
There is a degree of uncertainty with a few lose cannons that don't always participate, but if you see Seraphoenix posted you know Gohara won't be alone against the world. 

On topic, I think Sir Lord Admiral Kizaru defeats Katakuri.
But to be honest there is no scientific hard evidence reviewed by a jury of peers and backed by the electoral college saying Katakuti doesn't no diff stomp him, so why give him the benefit of the doubt?

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Shanks (Sep 26, 2017)

Imagine if Kata lose to luffy. Will everyone say low dif then? Lol


----------



## Seraphoenix (Sep 27, 2017)

Samehadaman said:


> You really get that community feeling of knowing each other from these threads.
> You know it will be everyone giving Kizaru the win except Gohara, who is guaranteed to participate and post that a "Lord" wins.
> There is a degree of uncertainty with a few lose cannons that don't always participate, but if you see Seraphoenix posted you know Gohara won't be alone against the world.
> 
> ...



So you guys have a herd going so what?   How many people believe the Earth is 6000 years old? How many believe the Earth is the centre of the solar system? For some, actual reasoning has no effect on their beliefs.

The majority of the posts here are shit posts that don't back up their appraisal. It's just :

''Kizaru mid diff''
"'I have to see more from Kata but I'm leaning toward mid diff''
etc

Your post doesn't even give reasons, it's just some lame shade, which again is the only thing you can do. Gyro legit needs to start deleting posts that don't back up their opinion.

If Kizaru couldn't get an advantage over Marco in a straight 1v1 and even got overpowered, then he is going to have a very hard time against Kata since there is no indication that Marco is special among FMs. In fact given the emphasis placed on his CoO which counters Kizaru's speed, he would be in the fight of his life. But better to shitpost one liners huh. Cause Kizaru overpowering pre-skip SNs and hanging with a WB off his life support makes him Yonko level.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2017)

Josh said:


> Imagine if Kata lose to luffy. Will everyone say low dif then? Lol


Given peoples downplaying of anyone that loses to luffy it wont be surprsing.


----------



## X18999 (Sep 27, 2017)

I don't see why the Marines would have a monopoly on having multiply top tiers...

If Big Mom is only 'Admiral Level' and her strongest subordinates are only 'mid diff' at best for Admirals I don't see why the Big Mom Pirates have been allowed to exist for this long.

Extreme Diff either way for me.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 28, 2017)

X18999 said:


> I don't see why the Marines would have a monopoly on having multiply top tiers...
> 
> If Big Mom is only 'Admiral Level' and her strongest subordinates are only 'mid diff' at best for Admirals I don't see why the Big Mom Pirates have been allowed to exist for this long.
> 
> Extreme Diff either way for me.



There are 4 Yonkou and dragon+Revos. 

If the marines try and take out big mom completely what do you think will happen?


----------



## B Rabbit (Sep 28, 2017)

Mid to High dif.

If he manhandles a G4 Luffy its high.


----------



## Gohara (Sep 29, 2017)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> There are 4 Yonkou and dragon+Revos.
> 
> If the marines try and take out big mom completely what do you think will happen?



If the Admirals are around Yonkou level then 3 Admirals plus some Vice Admirals are > 1 Yonkou Crew.  They can have CP0, Kong, the Fleet Admiral, Garp, Mihawk, The Gorosei, etc. defend from The Revolutionaries and other Yonkou Crews.  Assuming that they even ally to begin with.  Which if they were going to ally why wouldn't they have?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 29, 2017)

Gohara said:


> If the Admirals are around Yonkou level then 3 Admirals plus some Vice Admirals are > 1 Yonkou Crew.  They can have CP0, Kong, the Fleet Admiral, Garp, Mihawk, The Gorosei, etc. defend from The Revolutionaries and other Yonkou Crews.  Assuming that they even ally to begin with.  Which if they were going to ally why wouldn't they have?



And in doing so they risk losing one of those admirals a shit ton of other vice admirals and high ranking marines. Then they have to deal with the chaos of a yonkou being gone and everyone running wild like what happened with whitebeard. 

Then within a few years at most another yonkou takes his place. Its just not practical to send out a strong enough force to wipe out a yonkou. Its the pirate age after all. Easier for more pirates to pop up then marines willing to give there life for the WG


----------



## neoacacia (Sep 29, 2017)

Isnt katakuri marcos equivalent but people are saying mid diff wtf


----------



## SwordSlayer99 (Sep 29, 2017)

Via feats + scaling to other Admirals Kizaru wins high diff.

Anyone saying Kizaru/Katakuri wins mid diff are crazy imo. Katakuri is Marco's equivalent, and Marco was giving the Admirals trouble. With that being said, due to Marco's OP as shit fruit, he more than likely is > Katakuri, but even if that is the case Kizaru is not winning a fight against a Yonko's FM with mid difficulty, that's insanity.


----------



## Gohara (Oct 1, 2017)

@ Doflamingo.

None of that is no where near enough reason to not win the War against Piracy though.  Defeating The Revolutionaries and the Yonkou would make them by far the most superior organization in the series.  Preventing any other characters from becoming Yonkou at that point would be relatively easy and it's not like they can't recruit more Admirals as some Pirates try to become Yonkou.  It doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't want to win the War against Piracy just because 1 Admiral might be bested, The World Government were okay with allowing Aokiji to quit if it meant Akainu becoming Fleet Admiral.

Furthermore there are other teams that can be used.  Simply add 1 or 2 more Admiral level characters to the scenario in that post.  Either that or have The Shichibukai team up with the 3 Admirals.  Then there should be no way that any of the Admiral level characters are bested.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 1, 2017)

Gohara said:


> @ Doflamingo.
> 
> None of that is no where near enough reason to not win the War against Piracy though.  Defeating The Revolutionaries and the Yonkou would make them by far the most superior organization in the series.  Preventing any other characters from becoming Yonkou at that point would be relatively easy and it's not like they can't recruit more Admirals as some Pirates try to become Yonkou.  It doesn't make much sense that they wouldn't want to win the War against Piracy just because 1 Admiral might be bested, The World Government were okay with allowing Aokiji to quit if it meant Akainu becoming Fleet Admiral.
> 
> Furthermore there are other teams that can be used.  Simply add 1 or 2 more Admiral level characters to the scenario in that post.  Either that or have The Shichibukai team up with the 3 Admirals.  Then there should be no way that any of the Admiral level characters are bested.



The WG are not capable of winning agasint the Pirates is my point gohara. Otherwise you know they would of done it. The WG are rutheless and care little beyond keeping there power in check. If they thought they could end the pirate age even if it cost them 99 percent of there forces to do it they would, but they cant they would lose.


----------



## Gohara (Oct 1, 2017)

But in the case that we're referring to they wouldn't have to match up against all of them at the same time.  They would be able to defeat multiple Yonkou Crews in The Marineford War Arc.  Then after that they would be able to do the same to the other Yonkou Crews.

So:

Dragon and 2 Yonkou vs. 4 top tier Members of The World Government- The World Government wins.

16 top Yonkou Commander level characters vs. CP0, 3 top tier Members of The World Government, and The Gorosei- The World Government wins without much of a problem.

Other Yonkou Commander level characters vs. the other Cipher Pols, the Vice Admirals, and The Shichibukai- The World Government wins.

Even then that's assuming that The Revolutionaries and the other Yonkou Crews team up.

Furthermore if the Admirals are around Yonkou level then it's unlikely that they wouldn't be able to best The Revolutionaries and all of the Yonkou Crews combined anyways since they would then have 7 top tier characters on their team excluding CP0 and The Gorosei which could very well and likely do consist of at least some Admiral+ level characters.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 1, 2017)

Gohara said:


> But in the case that we're referring to they wouldn't have to match up against all of them at the same time.  They would be able to defeat multiple Yonkou Crews in The Marineford War Arc.  Then after that they would be able to do the same to the other Yonkou Crews.
> 
> So:
> 
> ...



Defeating Shanks and the rest of the WB pirates would of cost them a admiral if not 2 depending on how black beard reacts lets just say sengoku and garp. That leaves Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, and Mihawk if he decides to help them as far as top tiers go. Kong could help but unless the Holy land is directly attacked i dont think he will go fight anywhere same with the Gorosei. 

Getting deep into yonkou territory is not easy and they would be fighting on there own turf. Not to mention if the WG really is going on a crusade then of course the pirates are going to join up. The remnants of shanks crew and allies and the remnants of wbs crew and allies would continue to cause problems. 

With a weakened WG they also run the risk of the Warlords leaving cause at the end of the day they are pirates as well. 

Its just not practical to try and take out the Yonkou. Even if they could win the price of it is arguably to high


----------



## Gohara (Oct 1, 2017)

Why would any of the Admirals be bested?  There would be 5 top tier characters on their team in that scenario.  2 top tier characters can decisively best Shanks while the other 3 top tier characters and The Shichibukai are more than enough to best the Yonkou Commanders.  Plus even assuming that an Admiral is bested they would still have almost their entire Army plus the several other top tier characters in The World Government to match up against The Revolutionaries and other Yonkou Crews after that.  It wouldn't make any sense for them to not be able to replicate that same feat against a comparable level of characters as the ones that they bested in The Marineford War Arc while having even more of an Army.  The World Government would win the War against Piracy without much of a problem.

If The Gorosei and Kong thought that they can win the War against Piracy I don't see why they would have any issues participating in the War.

Furthermore even if they wouldn't already have a clear edge against The Revolutionaries and Yonkou Crews there's still far more benefit to besting half the Yonkou in The Marineford War Arc with almost no risk than there is not doing so.


----------



## alecsanadraa (Oct 1, 2017)

good


----------



## shisuiuchiha5 (Feb 26, 2018)

Seraphoenix said:


> Admiral fans who won't give actual reasons based on the manga.
> 
> Marco overpowered Kizaru in cqc and Kizaru could only get an advantage with Marco being distracted twice by WB and getting help from a VA.
> 
> ...



how is someone like katakuri even going to match kizaru?
sure katakuri's observation haki is great,that is if he is fast enough to attack and dodge kizaru.

I mean even sanji managed to dodge katakuri,if sanji could dodge katakuri,then I have no doubts that kizaru would speedblitz him for days.

kizaru can literally travel at the speed of light,katakuri even with his high level observation haki would have no chance against kizaru.

Even Ichiji managed to hit katakuri .


----------



## Typhon (Feb 26, 2018)

*Over-powered by Marco*

Man I get tired of seeing this

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


----------



## Imagine (Feb 26, 2018)

An admiral isn't losing to a yonkou commander

Reactions: Useful 1 | Dislike 1


----------



## Seraphoenix (Feb 26, 2018)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> how is someone like katakuri even going to match kizaru?
> sure katakuri's observation haki is great,that is if he is fast enough to attack and dodge kizaru.
> 
> I mean even sanji managed to dodge katakuri,if sanji could dodge katakuri,then I have no doubts that kizaru would speedblitz him for days.
> ...



Show me Kizaru blitzing someone on Katakuri's level I'll wait. Spare me your fanfics and stop quoting things I said months ago. Who's dupe are you?

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Shiba D. Inu (Feb 27, 2018)

Kizaru high-diff at worst, possibly mid-diff

Katas dodging is good against punches, but less so against giant explosions spam

and Mr Lightspeed may still be too fast for him to dodge consistently


----------



## zoro_santoryu (Feb 27, 2018)

Kizaru High difficulty (at most)


----------



## Zoro20 (Feb 27, 2018)

kizaru mid diff
lowest of lowest end of high diff at best


----------



## Blanco (Feb 27, 2018)

King of lightning is funny but he dumb for thinking that


----------



## Raiden34 (Feb 28, 2018)

Kata has better feats.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 4


----------



## Luke (Feb 28, 2018)

Kizaru wins, solid high difficulty.


----------

