# Who can solo the Eleven Supernovas?



## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 18, 2014)

Who in the series can beat all of the Eleven Supernovas (Post TS versions) at the same time?


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## Magentabeard (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and Rayleigh in their primes and Shanks


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## Slenderman (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger, WB, Prime Garp, Prime Ray and that's about it.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffy + Zoro  > Admiral
No one solos 11 super novas


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## trance (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger, prime Whitebeard, prime Rayleigh, prime Garp can. That's about it.


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## Magician (Mar 18, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Roger, prime Whitebeard, prime Rayleigh, prime Garp can. That's about it.



^This and nobody else.


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## Magentabeard (Mar 18, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Roger, prime Whitebeard, prime Rayleigh, prime Garp can. That's about it.



I don't see why Shanks can't.
How many of them will even be able to stand up to his CoC?


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## Slenderman (Mar 18, 2014)

EOS Luffy and Teach probably could too.


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## Stannis (Mar 18, 2014)

no  one can.


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## Slenderman (Mar 18, 2014)

Magentabeard said:


> I don't see why Shanks can't.
> How many of them will even be able to stand up to his CoC?



All of them have huge willpowers, or else they would never make it that far in their journey. Even some fodder in Law's crew were able to not get knocked out by Ray's. Same with the fodder commanders in WB's crew.


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## Slenderman (Mar 18, 2014)

ZFG you got it all wrong. It's Luffy>>Yeti Cool Bros>>>>Zoro.


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## Blue Cheese (Mar 18, 2014)

They all got tricky abilities but if yonkou or admiral are serious than they shud win maybe


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 18, 2014)

Zorofangirl24 said:


> Luffy + Zoro  > Admiral
> No one solos 11 super novas



Luffy and Zoro are stronger than an Admiral? And I thought Hancock being Admiral level was your worst. I don't see Roger having an easy time with an Admiral, whereas with Luffy and Zoro, he'd rip them a new one with one hand tied behind his back.


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## Butters (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger and Whitebeard at their best. Perhaps Rayleigh and Garp in their heyday too.

But that's it.


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## B Rabbit (Mar 18, 2014)

EoS Law, Luffy, Blackbeard, Zoro, and Smoker

Prime Whitebeard, Roger, Garp, Rayleigh, Sengoku, Shiki.

Current Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu, Kaidou, Big Mom, Aokiji, Dragon.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

Dragon, Yonko, Admirals, Mihawk, Marco/Beckmann.

Luffy is the strongest or 2nd strongest SN. And he is going to be fighting an extremely hard uphill battle against doffy. From Luffy downward, SN start dropping in quality. I doubt the numbers will matter that much when there are such big gaps in power.


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## B Rabbit (Mar 18, 2014)

Pretty much.

I'm almost sure there yonkou, admirals some can compete with prime Roger/Whitebeard.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 18, 2014)

Most Top tiers can solo the Supernovas.


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## Kid (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger, Garp, Whitebeard, Rayleigh

That's without Urouge of course


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## TheWiggian (Mar 18, 2014)

Actually there is no1 alive who could do it.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

No one can, not even Roger. That's too much haxness, one innocent mistake and you're down when you're up against all 11 supernovas, shouldn't Teach be included though? he's a supernova..


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

Teach is part of the worst generation. He's definitely not a supernova.
I don't even know if prime Garp, Ray and WB could solo the supernova. The same applies to Roger. It should be noted, though, that they're the only characters who actually stand a chance at doing it.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

People are really underestimating the absolute top tiers if they think someone like Shanks/Dragon can be  taken out by a group of 11 pirates, strongest of which is about equal to Luffy or is Luffy himself.

The whole notion is beyond ridiculous. I bet shanks/Dragon wouldn't even break a sweat.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

Oh, my bad.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffee said:


> People are really underestimating the absolute top tiers if they think someone like Shanks/Dragon can be  taken out by a group of 11 pirates, strongest of which is about equal to Luffy or is Luffy himself.
> 
> The whole notion is beyond ridiculous. I bet shanks/Dragon wouldn't even break a sweat.



What. They wouldn't even break a sweat? The 11 supernovas (Not all, but some) are the ones who are about to destroy the balance of the world. They are the ones who are about to put the world in chaos. They are the ones who have it in them to make it at the top and surpass the likes of Roger and Whitebeard. If anyone as a group can take down a solid top tier, it's the supernovas.


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## Shinthia (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffee said:


> People are really underestimating the absolute top tiers if they think someone like Shanks/Dragon can be  taken out by a group of 11 pirates, strongest of which is about equal to Luffy or is Luffy himself.
> 
> The whole notion is beyond ridiculous.* I bet shanks/Dragon wouldn't even break a sweat*.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> What. They wouldn't even break a sweat? The 11 supernovas (Not all, but some) are the ones who are about to destroy the balance of the world. They are the ones who are about to put the world in chaos. They are the ones who have it in them to make it at the top and surpass the likes of Roger and Whitebeard. If anyone as a group can take down a solid top tier, it's the supernovas.



None of what you said is hardly relevant to the discussion at hand. You're talking about what the supernovas will do, not what they CAN do. Those are two different things. Luffy will surpass roger at the end of series. Not now.

Vergo with a slightly superior stats was able to crack sanji's leg. Can you even fathom what would happen if shanks landed a serious hit on any of the supernovas? He'd just blitz and OHKO each of the SN. Even if you don't think they'll be OHKO'ed, how many hits do you think luffy can take from shanks?(Luffy is arguably the physically strongest SN).

Akainu and aokiji fought eachother for ten days. The impressive thing here is not the number of days because even ace/jimbei could fight for 5 days. The impressive thing here is the person akainu and aokiji were fighting. that even after ten days of constant attack from another admiral, akainu didn't go down. Do any of the SN have the damage output that can can take out a man who could withstand constant attacks from another admiral for ten days?


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## Cheeky (Mar 18, 2014)

Whitebeard, and presumably Roger.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

> None of what you said is hardly relevant to the discussion at hand. You're talking about what the supernovas will do, not what they CAN do. Those are two different things. Luffy will surpass roger at the end of series. Not now.



Yeah, but he got the potential to surpass Roger. Potential doesn't just come and go in one day. If Luffy has the potential to surpass Roger, he got the potential to beat a top tier with the help of 10 other people who are most of them are on his level, more or less. Luffy aint weak, He's about to get head on with Doflamingo, I know that I shouldn't jump to conclusions since we don't know how Dofla vs Luffy would go, but if Luffy does beat Dofla in the same arc after another battle, then he didn't really grow in strength that much, it just he lost the first time because of bullshit and we both know it happens a lot.



> Vergo with a slightly superior stats was able to crack sanji's leg. Can you even fathom what would happen if shanks landed a serious hit on any of the supernovas? He'd just blitz and OHKO each of the SN. Even if you don't think they'll be OHKO'ed, how many hits do you think luffy can take from shanks?(Luffy is arguably the physically strongest SN).



Sanji and Vergo are more or less on the same level with the Supernovas being above both. You telling me 11 Vergos can't even make Shanks break a sweat? Now keep in mind that the supernovas are stronger than Vergo.  And in desperate situations, they'll be much stronger, that's how strong their will is.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

> Akainu and aokiji fought eachother for ten days. The impressive thing here is not the number of days because even ace/jimbei could fight for 5 days. The impressive thing here is the person akainu and aokiji were fighting. that even after ten days of constant attack from another admiral, akainu didn't go down. Do any of the SN have the damage output that can can take out a man who could withstand constant attacks from another admiral for ten days?



They are both logias, this doesn't work. A fight between prime Roger and prime Whitebeard wouldn't last a day.


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## Rob (Mar 18, 2014)

The thing is, they have a lot of hax (Law, Bonney) so it wouldn't be far-fetched at all if they were able to bring down someone like Jozu due to it. 

As for who can beat them, 
Admirals
Yonkou
Dragon
Mihawk 
Marco 
Post-TS Lucci


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## Venom (Mar 18, 2014)

Primebeard
Primeleigh
Primeroger
Primegarp
Shanks
Akainu
Aokiji
Kizaru
Mihawk
Fujitora
Dragon

But well it won't be anything less than High Diff


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

And you're saying that we're underestimating the top-tiers?
Both of you, read Lawliet's post please. A single supernova 1-shot Vergo, who was one of the top vice admirals in the entire navy. So, 11 supernovas won't make Shanks break a sweat? I'm not even gonna reply to the part in your post saying any admiral or Marco could solo them.


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## Magician (Mar 18, 2014)

Top Tiers are overrated as fuck.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

@huurrd Its good that you didn't reply to my post. Since you think supernovas can oneshot Vergo level characters 

@lawliet

A. Luffy had the potential to surpass the roger before timeskip too. Do you really think luffy could beat shanks then with the help of SN? The answer is no. Its becuase potential only tells what a character will be able to do, not what it can do. We dont know how luffy vs doffy would go down. But what we do know is that he'll be fighting an uphill battle against him and even then barely win. As of now luffy is weaker until proven otherwise. And almost all of SN are even weaker than luffy. 

B. Supernovas are not stronger than vergo. Some of them are, some are not. And yeah, i do think shanks wouldn't break a sweat against 11 vergos. The difference in power is too huge. And what kind of argument is "their will is strong?".

c. This helps my case actually. If you believe that even akainu and aokiji cant hit eachother's logia bodies with 100% success rate, then how can you even imagine that most of the SN can touch logia trio at all?


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

A. They don't need potential, the current supernovas are far stronger than what they were pre-skip. Besides, who says the supernovas are all weaker than Luffy?
B. Their will being strong will prevent them from getting knocked out by Shanks's CoC. I'd have to disagree with you about Shanks absolutely wrecking 11 Vergos, anyway.
C. You completely missed his point here. Akainu and Aokiji were both logias with elements that would equalize with each other indefinitely, which is why their fight lasted so long.


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## Coruscation (Mar 18, 2014)

If the Supernovas were all just straight melee'ers I have no doubt of the ability of several top tiers to solo them - in cases like that you can't just throw more numbers at something that is so far superior in raw power - but it's quite important to remember that taken together they have an amazingly varied and haxed array of abilities. The degree to which someone could counter all these crazy abilities at once using Haki or a DF ability of their own is a crucial factor. Someone like Sengoku might not have the appropriate defenses against such a mixed assault, for example, while the Logia Admirals would be enjoying a great boon in their immunity to most forms of damage.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

hurrrrrrrd said:


> A. They don't need potential, the current supernovas are far stronger than what they were pre-skip. Besides, who says the supernovas are all weaker than Luffy?
> B. Their will being strong will prevent them from getting knocked out by Shanks's CoC. I'd have to disagree with you about Shanks absolutely wrecking 11 Vergos, anyway.
> C. You completely missed his point here. Akainu and Aokiji were both logias with elements that would equalize with each other indefinitely, which is why their fight lasted so long.



1. I know the current SN are far stronger than SN. That's not my point. I was asking  Lawliet to drop the "potential" argument.  From what we know about the current SN, it's logical to assume that only Kid or Law have the potential to be stronger than Luffy. And if you read my posts carefully, you'll see I never said Luffy is definitely stronger than all SN.

2. I'm pretty sure neither me or Lawliet said anything about CoC.

3. Equalize indefinitely? What does that even mean? Throwing energy attacks requires ENERGY. You can't just do it indefinitely.


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

Even the logia trio aren't immune to haki, though. Besides, Luffee; Law definitely 1-shot Vergo. The other supernovas' extremely vague array of abilities could probably do the same.
Edit:
1. That's my point. You can only assume that only Kid or Law are be stronger than Luffy.
2. Yeah, I'm kinda tired atm. Nonetheless, the part about CoC still counts, and their will would drive them further forward in the fight.
3. But thats what being a logia is all about. Well, to be honest, both Aokiji and Akainu didn't even take each others his like you've claimed them to.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

> A. Luffy had the potential to surpass the roger before timeskip too. Do you really think luffy could beat shanks then with the help of SN? The answer is no. Its becuase potential only tells what a character will be able to do, not what it can do. We dont know how luffy vs doffy would go down. But what we do know is that he'll be fighting an uphill battle against him and even then barely win. As of now luffy is weaker until proven otherwise. And almost all of SN are even weaker than luffy.



Of course not, but Luffy was trained by Rayleigh during the time skip. Rayleigh also happened to be Shanks' mentor. Current Luffy is not weak.



> e potential only tells what a character will be able to do, not what it can do


Not really, but that's your own opinion and you're entitled to it. 



> B. Supernovas are not stronger than vergo. Some of them are, some are not. And yeah, i do think shanks wouldn't break a sweat against 11 vergos. The difference in power is too huge. And what kind of argument is "their will is strong?".



I know that not all are stronger than Vergo, do you I really have to exclude the weaker ones in every post I make?

11 Vergos would make Shanks break more than a sweat. 1 Vergo wouldn't because 1 vs 1 fights are not as tricky as 1 vs 11. It's not a math problem where you add 11 vergos and they still don't equal Shanks. The factor of having more than one enemy plays a huge factor in this. 

What kind of an argument is that? Go back and watch Luffy vs Lucci. 



> c. This helps my case actually. If you believe that even akainu and aokiji cant hit eachother's logia bodies with 100% success rate, then how can you even imagine that most of the SN can touch logia trio at all?



I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the SNs are the most haxed group in the whole series. Excluding some certain devil fruits, just in case you are about to jump me again and remind me of other devil fruits being as good or stronger than the ones with the SNs.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

> Even the logia trio aren't immune to haki, though. Besides, Luffee; Law definitely 1-shot Vergo. The other supernovas' extremely vague array of abilities could probably do the same.



I never implied they are immune to Haki. 

Law didn't oneshot vergo in the true sense of the word. Especially if you put thinks into context.

1. First of all, Law has a DF which allows him to take out opponents in one attack. It's not the same as oneshotting someone. 
2. When law cut vergo, that was arguably his strongest or one of the strongest slashes. When a character has to use one of his strongest moves, the word 'oneshot' loses it's meaning.
3. Vergo has a fighting style where he tries tank attacks rather than dodging them. He tried to tank law's slash believing law wouldn't be able to cut him. Doflamingo made this clear. In An actual fight it wouldn't be as simple. As evidenced by Law vs Smoker.


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

He's actually right about the potential part, Lawliet's. I pretty much agree with you about everything else, though. Typing with this broken mobile is hard as fuck 
Edit:
1. So, Law has a fruit that let's him one shot people.
2. Lol? He used a simple slash, nothing else.
3. Vergo wouldn't really be able to dodge the slash while inside Law's room, but even if he would, Law could jus keep slashing shit until he 1-shot Vergo. Besides, there's also the psychological aspect of their fights, since Law made sure to convince Vergo that his haki could protect him from Law's slashes beforehand. Some supernovas should be quite intelligent.


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## Mihawk (Mar 18, 2014)

As Corus said, it is important to remember the plethora of haxx on team SN's side...


yet I still don't have the certainty to say that their haki would be effective every time. All of the novas except Kidd, Drake, Law, Luffy, and Hawkins are total non factors. Either that or the proficiency of haki prescribed for people of their level would mean too little to make a difference. 

For now, I think that anyone on the level of the C3 and above, can potentially pull this off, 

Things  will be less cryptic come the end of the Dressrosa arc and the climax of the Nova Alliances VS Yonko


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

> Of course not, but Luffy was trained by Rayleigh during the time skip. Rayleigh also happened to be Shanks' mentor. Current Luffy is not weak.



If you think Luffy is just THAT strong then it's a different matter. It's your opinion. I can't convince you otherwise. I was only arguing against your "potential argument." That just because he'll surpass roger one day means he can beat shanks with some help.



> 11 Vergos would make Shanks break more than a sweat. 1 Vergo wouldn't because 1 vs 1 fights are not as tricky as 1 vs 11. It's not a math problem where you add 11 vergos and they still don't equal Shanks. The factor of having more than one enemy plays a huge factor in this.



Can't say much except I strongly disagree. 



> I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the SNs are the most haxed group in the whole series. Excluding some certain devil fruits, just in case you are about to jump me again and remind me of other devil fruits being as good or stronger than the ones with the SNs.



How does that matter when they can't touch logia trio?


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

hurrrrrrrd said:


> He's actually right about the potential part, Lawliet's. I pretty much agree with you about everything else, though. Typing with this broken mobile is hard as fuck
> Edit:
> 1. So, Law has a fruit that let's him one shot people.
> 2. Lol? He used a simple slash, nothing else.
> 3. Vergo wouldn't really be able to dodge the slash while inside Law's room, but even if he would, Law could jus keep slashing shit until he 1-shot Vergo. Besides, there's also the psychological aspect of their fights, since Law made sure to convince Vergo that his haki could protect him from Law's slashes beforehand. Some supernovas should be quite intelligent.



Law used a simple slash?? Ok I'm done. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



The guy cut a friggin mountain range in half


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

Why do you think Zoro and Killer are non-factors? Bonney could be tough too, and although I don't really know what Capone Bege's devil fruit does, he still might be of use. Dunno about Uruoge, but who's the last supernova, again? I kinda forgot. Either way, all of them shouldn't lose to a single admiral, not even to a Yonkou, or Dragon.
Edit: uh bro. That's his simple slash with his Devil Fruit abilities. By the way, we -know- at least 4 supernovas can touch the logia trio, and we should assume that more than just four of them know how to use haki, too.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

> If the Supernovas were all just straight melee'ers I have no doubt of the ability of several top tiers to solo them - in cases like that you can't just throw more numbers at something that is so far superior in raw power - but it's quite important to remember that taken together they have an amazingly varied and haxed array of abilities. The degree to which someone could counter all these crazy abilities at once using Haki or a DF ability of their own is a crucial factor. Someone like Sengoku might not have the appropriate defenses against such a mixed assault, for example, while the Logia Admirals would be enjoying a great boon in their immunity to most forms of damage.



SN's Haxx is just about the only sane argument one can make.

My problem with it is though that why should SN should be given benefit of the doubt in this matter? What I'm trying to say is that if someone like shanks was in a very tough battle against say akainu. Then it'd make sense for him to give openings to weaker hax characters.

But in a battle where all the characters are far weaker than him, shouldn't we assume that shanks would be a lot more relaxed and wouldn't give easy openings for Haxx attacks?  And would be able break SN's numbers and cause panic amongst them?

Unless you're talking about possibilities here that is.


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 18, 2014)

You don't -know- if they're far weaker than him, though. I've kinda g2g now, so my next response will only be sometime tomorrow, or in about 7-8 hours.


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## Orca (Mar 18, 2014)

@hurrd 

Simply having Haki is not enough to touch a logia admiral.


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## Coruscation (Mar 18, 2014)

> My problem with it is though that why should SN should be given benefit of the doubt in this matter? What I'm trying to say is that if someone like shanks was in a very tough battle against say akainu. Then it'd make sense for him to give openings to weaker hax characters.
> 
> But in a battle where all the characters are far weaker than him, shouldn't we assume that shanks would be a lot more relaxed and wouldn't give easy openings for Haxx attacks? And would be able break SN's numbers and cause panic amongst them?
> 
> Unless you're talking about possibilities here that is.



I'm talking about possibilities, not that they should be given the benefit of the doubt. Shanks might be the best Haki user alive so if we're talking about him specifically it's entirely possible that he has the sheer power to resist them completely with his armor. As you notice I mentioned Haki in my post.


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## Shanks (Mar 18, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Top Tiers are overrated as fuck.



Couldn't agree more.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Mar 18, 2014)

I actually think given knowledge, time to strategise and good teamwork amongst the SN's they could take out anyone. There's enough diversity of hax to take out anyone. 

However assuming that they're just literally dropped into a fight with each other I think your typical Yonkou and Admiral should have enough. They have the OHKO'ing capablity with their attack power to quickly take out people one by one.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 18, 2014)

Hax is useless against vastly Superior Haki.


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## Lawliet (Mar 18, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Hax is useless against vastly Superior Haki.



Not really. Depending on the fruit itself, it can be useful even against Haki users. Darkness is just one example.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 18, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Not really. Depending on the fruit itself, it can be useful even against Haki users. Darkness is just one example.



Again i said Vastly superior. 

Also we don't really know how Haki interacts with Black-beards devil fruit. Putting up A Strong Shield may very well stop your ability's from being negated seeing as if Black-beards not really touching you(but the haki shield) then you should be fine in theory anyway.


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## Mihawk (Mar 18, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Not really. Depending on the fruit itself, it can be useful even against Haki users. *Darkness is just one example*.



Well, Teach's Yami-Yami nullifies devil fruit powers upon contact 

And as he pointed out ^^^ we don't know how haki works against the Yami-Yami


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 18, 2014)

Roger, Whitebeard, Garp and Shanks...
Prime Rayleigh, maybe?

Dragon should be capable of soloing, too.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffee said:


> @hurrd
> 
> Simply having Haki is not enough to touch a logia admiral.


That's right. Whitebeard couldn't even touch one until he was bloodlusted and Marco and Vista failed to make Akainu tangible in their ambush (inb4RGsaysonlyhappenedonce).


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## Venom (Mar 18, 2014)

All I know is that at the end of the day Akainu would have magmafisted all of em.


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## Kaiser (Mar 18, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> That's right. Whitebeard couldn't even touch one until he was bloodlusted and Marco and Vista failed to make Akainu tangible in their ambush (inb4RGsaysonlyhappenedonce).


Once again, Akainu got hurt by their Haki. WB on the other hand was already heavily wounded and haki is willpower, which could explain why he couldn't control his haki normally. 

It's not like they are immune because they are logia. Joz himself managed to make Aokiji bleed. Unless you believe Joz's haki is stronger than WB's, Marco's and Vista's, it would make no sense or i would wonder why Marco is considered to be above Joz, hell we could even wonder why Joz isn't the captain of the crew


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 18, 2014)

Blake said:


> Once again, Akainu got hurt by their Haki.



Lelnope. 


Blake said:


> WB on the other hand was already heavily wounded and haki is willpower, which could explain why he couldn't control his haki normally.



A quake from Whitebeard at the start of the war couldn't make Aokiji tangible, and he was pretty fresh at that point.


Blake said:


> It's not like they are immune because they are logia.


If the Supernovas don't have good enough Haki (I doubt their Haki is on par with Marco and Vista's), then they don't have a chance.


Blake said:


> Joz himself managed to make Aokiji bleed. Unless you believe Joz's haki is stronger than WB's, Marco's and Vista's, it would make no sense or i would wonder why Marco is considered to be above Joz, hell we could even wonder why Joz isn't the captain of the crew


Whitebeard, while he was the strongest Yonko, he was still not what he once was. Jozu, unlike Marco, could make Aokiji bleed because he specializes in sheer strength. And Marco and Vista weren't just attacking any Admiral, this was Akainu, the strongest one. Marco made every other Admiral tangible, except Akainu, and he had Vista's help with him.


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## Slenderman (Mar 18, 2014)

WB was able to flow his haki properly because he focused all of his willpower on killing Akainu. Ace's death triggered this.


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## Blanco (Mar 18, 2014)

1v11? No way lol no one can.


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## Kaiser (Mar 18, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Lelnope.


"Ngh.. Ahhh" = someone hurt. It's even more strange if you really think they didn't manage to make him tangible when he screams that much



> A quake from Whitebeard at the start of the war couldn't make Aokiji tangible, and he was pretty fresh at that point.


It was a long range attack. Busoshoku haki is a supplementary move you add to your physical capabilities. WB never hit him directly at that moment



> Whitebeard, while he was the strongest Yonko, he was still not what he once was. Jozu, unlike Marco, could make Aokiji bleed because he specializes in sheer strength. And Marco and Vista weren't just attacking any Admiral, this was Akainu, the strongest one. Marco made every other Admiral tangible, except Akainu, and he had Vista's help with him.


It's already doubtful that even in physical capabilities Jozu is really above WB, but it doesn't matter here. No matter how strong one is, it would never hurt a logia if he doesn't possess haki. Depending on how strong your armament haki is, so will be your attacks, so Jozu hurting logias when WB, Marco, Vista couldn't would mean in this case his haki is better than their own. 

Aokiji fought Akainu for 10days straigth. It's more than obvious that the difference in their power is close to non-existant and when you even take into consideration the fact Aokiji had the elemental inferiority, it could mean his haki is actually above that of Akainu's if despite the disadvantage he almost won the fight, yet Joz managed to make him bleed


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## trance (Mar 18, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> A quake from Whitebeard at the start of the war couldn't make Aokiji tangible, and he was pretty fresh at that point.



Conjecture. We don't know if Whitebeard can imbue his long-range air quakes with Haki.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 18, 2014)

Blake said:


> "Ngh.. Ahhh" = someone hurt.


Lelnope.  Akainu was shown with no injuries. "Ngh..Ahhh," can also sound like someone waking up for all we know.


Blake said:


> It's even more strange if you really think they didn't manage to make him tangible when he screams that much


Can be strain from using his Haki to overpower theirs. No one said that resisting the Haki of two of Whitebeard's best men was easy.


Blake said:


> It was a long range attack. Busoshoku haki is a supplementary move you add to your physical capabilities. WB never hit him directly at that moment.


And can be imbued into attacks (like the Kuja do with their arrows and Zoro his air slash).


Blake said:


> It's already doubtful that even *in physical capabilities Jozu is really above WB*, but it doesn't matter here.


I never said that Jozu was above Whitebeard in physical strength.


Blake said:


> No matter how strong one is, it would never hurt a logia if he doesn't possess haki. *It's Haki that hurts logia, not physical capabilities*, so Jozu hurting logias when WB, Marco, Vista couldn't would mean in this case his haki is better than their own.


Wrong. It only allows one to bypass the DF User's defense and touch the actual body.


Blake said:


> Aokiji fought Akainu for 10days straigth. It's more than obvious that the difference in their power is close to non-existant and when you even take into consideration the fact *Aokiji had the elemental inferiority*


So why was half of Punk Hazard frozen solid and that it took Akainu ten days to beat Aokiji?


Blake said:


> it could mean his haki is actually above that of Akainu's if despite the disadvantage he almost won the fight, yet Joz managed to make him bleed


Marco fought every Admiral, and made each and every one of them tangible except Akainu, and he had Vista's help with him.


Stαrkiller said:


> Conjecture. We don't know if Whitebeard can imbue his long-range air quakes with Haki.


I don't see why Whitebeard couldn't if Zoro can imbue Haki into air slashes. It seems more reasonable than Akainu being injured from Marco and Vista's ambush (when it was not the case).


Slenderman said:


> WB was able to flow his haki properly because he focused all of his willpower on killing Akainu. Ace's death triggered this.


That too.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 18, 2014)

Luffy, Kid, Zoro, Killer, Law, Hawkin, Drake, Scatchman, Bonnie, Captain Gang, Uroug... these 9 should be able to push Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji to extreme difficulties.


----------



## tanman (Mar 18, 2014)

I suppose it could be possible for someone with Prime Whitebeard or Roger's level of hype.


----------



## trance (Mar 19, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> I don't see why Whitebeard couldn't if Zoro can imbue Haki into air slashes.



Two different techniques.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 19, 2014)

WB was casual at that time and didn't feel like using Haki. Furthermore, if that punch was bloodlust and imbune with CoA, then Aokiji wouldn't tank it, but dodge. The Blue Pheasant is more than capable to dodge a quake punch from a distance.


----------



## Slenderman (Mar 19, 2014)

If WB wouldn't use haki on Kuzan he'd feel like dying when the war started. I don't see him doing that out of spite or cockiness. He's not that type of man.


----------



## trance (Mar 19, 2014)

Him using Haki in a long-range quake attack seems complicated. AFAIK, he cracks the air itself, releasing a pressurized shockwave, similar to Kuma's "Pad Cannon" but with far superior raw power. Would that mean he imbues the air itself with Haki? 

Maybe I'm just trying to argue semantics.


----------



## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 19, 2014)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Lelnope.
> 
> 
> A quake from Whitebeard at the start of the war couldn't make Aokiji tangible, and he was pretty fresh at that point.
> ...



Perhaps Whitebeard did not even use haki in tandem with the quake directed at Aokiji.
The Supernovas' haki might be on a level far higher than that of both Marco and Vista for all we know, and Jozu specializing in sheer strenght actually has nothing to do with haki, going by your logic.
Starkiller and Blake kind of covered the rest, but I'm still gonna point out that no one said using haki put restrained your body, and, well, Starkiller explained the part about imbuing quakes with haki.


> I never said that Jozu was above Whitebeard in physical strength.


Your post was implying this, since you said he could do to Aokiji something Whitebeard himself couldn't do.
Btw, why do people always assume Akainu is the strongest admiral? We know he's stronger than Aokiji, but what about Kizaru? ;-;


----------



## Butters (Mar 19, 2014)

If I had access to my main account I'd neg the shit out of everyone that wanks the scene with Akainu, Marco and Vista (ie 90% of this section)

I mean common


----------



## Sentomaru (Mar 19, 2014)

Son Goku and Slenderman.

Honestly, I don't think anybody can. Luffy is about to beat Doflamingo. Law, Zoro, Kidd, Hawkins and Drake shouldn't be that far off either. Adding Apoo, Urouge, Killer, Capone, and Bonney should be too much firepower and hax. Even for poeple like Shanks. The only ones I can see standing a chance are top-tier logias... i.e. Admirals.


----------



## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 19, 2014)

Apoo should be in the same list as Hawkins and Law.


----------



## The Bloody Nine (Mar 19, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Top Tiers are overrated as fuck.



My Sentiments exactly.  In just a group of 3 these guys are gonna go after Yonkou. With all 11 of them fighting at the same time i doubt there is anyone that can beat them.


----------



## Venom (Mar 19, 2014)

I actually forgot that Zoro is one of the SN.
There ain't no chance for anyone


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 19, 2014)

^lol like zoro changes anything. 

He gets one shot like everyone else.


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Mar 19, 2014)

There is no _current_ top tier who can solo all of the post skip Supernovas. I only see the likes of WB or Roger being able to do it.


----------



## Slenderman (Mar 19, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^lol like zoro changes anything.
> 
> He gets one shot like everyone else.



It was a joke.


----------



## Ryuksgelus (Mar 19, 2014)

The Bloody Nine said:


> My Sentiments exactly.  In just a group of 3 these guys are gonna go after Yonkou. With all 11 of them fighting at the same time i doubt there is anyone that can beat them.



Most dangerous person is Bonnie. Brute force and speed don't mean much against the Admirals and probably not Shanks and WB type fighters either. How exactly do their numbers help?

Group of 3? Because we know exactly how the fight against Kaidou&BM are going to go down? You say that like Kaidou&BM won't be facing stronger versions of their SN opponents as well. This thread is about current level SN not them 2, 3, 4, arcs from now.


----------



## Venom (Mar 19, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^lol like zoro changes anything.
> 
> He gets one shot like everyone else.



You are better than this bro


----------



## Shanks (Mar 19, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^lol like zoro changes anything.
> 
> He gets one shot like everyone else.



No he didn't. No they wouldn't. And some other members said it best, top tiers are over rated as fucked.

I would bet anyone that within 1 month (OP time) a top tier is going down by the hands of Nova(s).


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> No he didn't. No they wouldn't. And some other members said it best, top tiers are over rated as fucked.
> I would bet anyone that within 1 month (OP time) a top tier is going down by the hands of Nova(s).



Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.

So yea most top tiers worth mentioning can indeed one shot the Supernovas.

Assuming no Time-skips a Yonkou should be going down with a months time, and seeing as in one piece the crew can go through 3 islands in a few days a month is more then enough time to get a shit ton stronger.



Venom said:


> You are better than this bro



 I'm 200 percent serious. Zoro changes nothing, and would get one shot by the majority of top tiers.


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.



lol 

plz stahp.


----------



## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

> I'm 200 percent serious. Zoro changes nothing, and would get one shot by the majority of top tiers.



He didn't get one shotted by Fuji.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> lol
> 
> plz stahp.





Case and point my friend. 

If Zoro can one shot Mr.1 with lion song, a dude who was not only stronger then Sanji i might add but someone who had a abnormally high durability via his devil fruit. I'm pretty dame sure a Great Dragon Movement or Ashura can take out Bonney, Law, Apoo, killer, and Capone just fine. Drake, Luffy, Urouge, and kidd are the only questionable ones and even then they won't be in much shape to put up a decent fight. 

Hawkins of course takes no damage via Devil fruit, although take that away his ass goes down to.



oOLawlietOo said:


> He didn't get one shotted by Fuji.



And a already injured Usopp was not One shot by Luffy.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

Mingo, WTF man?


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Case and point my friend.
> 
> If Zoro can one shot Mr.1 with lion song, a dude who was not only stronger then Sanji i might add but someone who had a abnormally high durability via his devil fruit. I'm pretty dame sure a Great Dragon Movement or Ashura can take out Bonney, Law, Apoo, killer, and Capone just fine. Drake, Luffy, Urouge, and kidd are the only questionable ones and even then they won't be in much shape to put up a decent fight.
> 
> Hawkins of course takes no damage via Devil fruit, although take that away his ass goes down to.



The fight ended technically in one slice but that was probably the hardest fight in his career. It most certainly wasn't an easy, no diff, stomp fight. Zoro vs Ryuuma ended in one shot but it was still a tough fight.

Law can one shot most people stronger than he is given the right circumstances.

Most of the supernova's should be able to give Zoro a tough fight regardless of the end result. Just because the end result ends in a "one shot" doesn't take away the difficulty of the fight.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> The fight ended technically in one slice but that was probably the hardest fight in his career. It most certainly wasn't an easy, no diff, stomp fight. Zoro vs Ryuuma ended in one shot but it was still a tough fight.
> 
> Law can one shot most people stronger than he is given the right circumstances.
> 
> Most of the supernova's should be able to give Zoro a tough fight regardless of the end result. Just because the end result ends in a "one shot" doesn't take away the difficulty of the fight.



I never said one thing about the difficulty of the fight. 

I just said Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.

And if Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas then its common sense that Mihawk can also do it, but with a much weaker attack(relative to him) and much easier. Cause you know higher base stats, higher haki all that good stuff. Same goes for the other top tiers. 

Seeing as most top tiers have crazy range and AOE most of the supernovas in a fight are going to get taken out pretty quickly. Cause its not like the supernova's can dodge attacks on the speed most top tiers can dish out, like aokijis ice ball for example one shots anyone he aims it at. Unless Drake can dodge a attack that White-beard did not even react to he gets turned into a Popsicle same as everyone else.


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I never said one thing about the difficulty of the fight.
> 
> I just said Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.
> 
> ...



It's not about whether an opponent can "one shot" the other, you have to take in account the difficulty of doing so.

Technically if a Supernova gets hit with a clean shot, they will go down. But it won't be near as easy as you think with 11 solid high tiers also in the fray. Zoro can one shot Mihawk as well if he just stood there and took the attack, but it won't be easy because the opponent will dodge and counter as well. And Zoro can "one shot" opponents because he uses a sword which is what it's pretty much made for.

And I think you overestimate the top tiers too much. I don't think they'd be able to one shot the M3 level fighters with as much ease as you think. Otherwise Fuji would've killed Zoro right then and there, Zoro _does_ have a bounty on his head and is a relatively high target considering he's one of the strongest in a crew that punched a Tenryubito, invaded Impel Down, declared war against the WG, who's captain is the son of the Most Dangerous Crimimal, etc etc. He should've definitely killed Zoro right then and there if it were as easy as swatting a fly.

And the Supernova's aren't gonna just stand still while everyone else is getting one shotted one by one.


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Luffy and Zoro should be able to push an Admiral to the lower end of mid difficulty

Luffy, Zoro, Killer, and Kidd should be able to push an Admiral to the lower end of high difficulty.

Luffy, Zoro, Killer, Kidd, Law, and Apoo should be able to give an Admiral a very high difficulty fight.

Luffy, Zoro, Killer, Kidd, Law, Apoo, Hawkins, and Urouge should be able to push it to extremes with the fight going either way.

Luffy, Zoro, Killer, Kidd, Law, Apoo, Hawkins, Urouge, Bonney, and Capone, should be able to give them the slight edge in the fight.

Add in X Drake and they should win with a solid high difficulty fight.

IMO.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I never said one thing about the difficulty of the fight.
> 
> I just said Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.
> 
> ...



Dude, WTF, seriously? The difficulties are important regardless of you mentioning it or not.  Zoro against Ruuyma or Daz Bone, while they both went down with 1-shot it was both a highly difficult fight and in order for Zoro to land that shot, he needed to land a lot of near miss and took lots of near miss also which couldn?t have caused him to be defeated along the process that?s why difficulties of those fights should always be considered.

That said, if Mihawk or whichever top tier is fighting Zoro, they can ?1-shot? in a 1  v 1 match, but they certainly need to be put into an advantage position to do so and even with a 1 v 1 battle, no one is one-shoting guys like Zoro, Law or Kid with anything less than mid difficulties.

Now, we?re not even talking about a 1 v 1 battle, here but 11 fucken mother fucker and with at least 7 others that?s on the same level as Zoro, a guy that clearly will not get fodderise by a top tier in a 1 v 1 battle, needless to say 1 vs 11.

BTW, Bonnie can 1-shot any top tier also. Does that mean she can land that shot though?


----------



## Dunno (Mar 20, 2014)

Think about it like this: Luffy is about to beat Doflamingo. Luffy will then be about the same level as Doflamingo. Would an admiral be able to beat eight or so Doflamingos-ish and with three weaker members as backup? You people even doubt an admiral would be able to beat one Doflamingo and one Jozu, which is a far weaker combination than 8 Doflamingos.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Think about it like this: Luffy is about to beat Doflamingo. Luffy will then be about the same level as Doflamingo. Would an admiral be able to beat eight or so Doflamingos-ish and with three weaker members as backup? You people even doubt an admiral would be able to beat one Doflamingo and one Jozu, which is a far weaker combination than 8 Doflamingos.



I've being telling everyone this over the last 12 months.


----------



## Freechoice (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> I would bet anyone that within 1 month (OP time) a top tier is going down by the hands of Nova(s).



Going by the absurd pacing of the manga; (hasn't it been something like 3 days since the TS? ) in one month the series will end


----------



## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

What DD is saying is actually not unreasonable or absurd at all.
You guys try to paint it so, when his point is being missed.


And no, Zoro cannot one shot Mihawk even if the latter just stood there. 

By the way, all the lesser SNs are non-factors and some will get killed right off the bat.


----------



## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

If Mihawk gives Current Zoro a free shoot and Zoro is really determined & serious about killing Mihawk then make no mistake Mihawk will die.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

? said:


> Going by the absurd pacing of the manga; (hasn't it been something like 3 days since the TS? ) in one month the series will end



While it has only being 3 days, it took them an entire year to reach the red line during pre-skip, so logically it would make sense for them to spend at least another year to conquer the new world.


----------



## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

Based on what, exactly?

I guess Mihawk's durability is that feeble, huh? No, as top tiers in this manga are not so fragile

You have guys like Akainu who can take bloodlusted quakes from Whitebeard when the latter gets a free shot. 

As determined as Zoro is in getting a free hit on Mihawk, he is not going to kill him with one slash, because he doesn't have the offensive capabilities to do so, unless you are one of those people who believes that Mihawk is an exception amongst top tiers in the endurance department, because he is somehow a glass canon, which is baseless.


----------



## Freechoice (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> While it has only being 3 days, it took them an entire year to reach the red line during pre-skip, so logically it would make sense for them to spend at least another year to conquer the new world.



Really? I thought it took a few weeks or something.


----------



## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

? said:


> Really? I thought it took a few weeks or something.



Na bro, and thinking about it logically, they technically sail half way around the world on a sail boat while also getting side tracked with heroic quests. A year or more makes perfect sense and I think they mentioned that when they reached Sabaody (forgot exactly when).


----------



## StrawHat4Life (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Case and point my friend.
> 
> If Zoro can one shot Mr.1 with lion song, a dude who was not only stronger then Sanji i might add but someone who had a abnormally high durability via his devil fruit. I'm pretty dame sure a Great Dragon Movement or Ashura can take out Bonney, Law, Apoo, killer, and Capone just fine. Drake, Luffy, Urouge, and kidd are the only questionable ones and even then they won't be in much shape to put up a decent fight.
> 
> ...



What does this really prove though? He's just not going to hit them with his best move right off the bat and win the fight. That's not how it works. The other supernova's likely have their own finishing techniques as well, and defenses which Zoro will have to get around. Technically I can argue that Bonney could just turn Zoro into an infant then strangle him to death. Doesn't mean she can actually pull it off in the heat of battle.


----------



## B Rabbit (Mar 20, 2014)

Zzoro's not taking out Law in one hit.


----------



## Lmao (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> As determined as Zoro is in getting a free hit on Mihawk, he is not going to kill him with one slash, because he doesn't have the offensive capabilities to do so


It'd be absolutely ridiculous if after two years of training with the man Zoro can't even threaten his life in a hypothetical scenario in which Mihawk is *wide open* (I assume no CoA to shield himself). Even Morgan managed to  and he's nowhere near as close as Zoro is to people of that level.


----------



## rext1 (Mar 20, 2014)

The rate at which Akainu was fodderising Ace leads me to believe that  11 Ace's would have still lost to Akainu!!

So IMHO Admirals + YONKO should still be capable of defeating 11 supernova's 1 vs 11!!


----------



## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> Based on what, exactly?


we saw in the manga that a EB sea king has enough offensive power to cut Shanks hand. So its not baseless at all .

let me ask u a question ? Why do u think a non logia Top Tier Mihawk wount die by a PostTS Asura Zoro's strongest attack _SPECIALLY_ when he is not even trying to avoid or block it with his CoA ?


----------



## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

rext1 said:


> The rate at which Akainu was fodderising Ace leads me to believe that  11 Ace's would have still lost to Akainu!!
> 
> So IMHO Admirals + YONKO should still be capable of defeating 11 supernova's 1 vs 11!!



elemental advantage played a huge role in Ace vs Akainu. SO, its not a fair comparison


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> As determined as Zoro is in getting a free hit on Mihawk, he is not going to kill him with one slash, because he doesn't have the offensive capabilities to do so, unless you are one of those people who believes that Mihawk is an exception amongst top tiers in the endurance department, because he is somehow a glass canon, which is baseless.



If Zoro cuts you in the neck and you're wide open, you're going to die. Even Morgan was able to cut a wide open Garp.

Jesus, top tiers are so overrated in this section. If Zoro can't even cut Mihawk with a free open slash without CoA or anything protecting him, then fuck 2 year timeskips these motherfuckers are gonna need 5+ years to compete with these people.

Law, Kidd, and the rest of the supernova's most be absolute fucktards for thinking they can take out a Yonko then.


----------



## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> we saw in the manga that a EB sea king has enough offensive power to cut Shanks hand. So its not baseless at all .
> 
> let me ask u a question ? Why do u think a non logia Top Tier Mihawk wount die by a PostTS Asura Zoro's strongest attack _SPECIALLY_ when he is not even trying to avoid or block it with his CoA ?



He will block it with his Badass Badass no mi. A fruit that makes you so badass you can survive a free cut to the neck.


----------



## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> He will block it with his Badass Badass no mi. A fruit that makes you so badass you can survive a free cut to the neck.



but Zolo is the one with Badass Badass no mi


----------



## Venom (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Zoro can one shot most of the supernovas.
> 
> So yea most top tiers worth mentioning can indeed one shot the Supernovas.
> 
> ...



I belive you that you are serious.
That was not what I meant though.
I was joking when I said that Zoro would change the outcome of the battle. Obviously he won't.
But you thought I was serious.
Hence the "You are better than this"- you should have understood that it was a joke


----------



## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

Lmao said:


> It'd be absolutely ridiculous if after two years of training with the man Zoro can't even threaten his life in a hypothetical scenario in which Mihawk is *wide open* (I assume no CoA to shield himself). Even Morgan managed to  and he's nowhere near as close as Zoro is to people of that level.



I'm not sure if Garp was really injured beyond superficial bleeding. 

For example, when he left himself wide open to Luffy, Luffy sent him off Inazuma's bridge, and Garp was bleeding from the head. But I do not think that it was any meaningful injury for the man, beyond superficial bleeding either.




Lionel Messi said:


> we saw in the manga that a EB sea king has enough offensive power to cut Shanks hand. So its not baseless at all .
> 
> let me ask u a question ? Why do u think a non logia Top Tier Mihawk wount die by a PostTS Asura Zoro's strongest attack _SPECIALLY_ when he is not even trying to avoid or block it with his CoA ?



The Shanks/EB Sea King issue: I see it as a pilot chapter issue. I do not think Oda had his story planned out that far at the time, nor do I think that he had originally intended for Shanks to be that powerful eventually. 

Well, someone like Akainu was completely open to what was probably Whitebeard's strongest attack at the time under his condition, and it only impeded him for an instant before the former melted his face.

Also, Whitebeard left himself wide open to a stab from Squard(someone probably around the VA level spectrum), to the vitals, but was still good to go for the majority of the war, heart attack triggered or not. Point is, he didn't die. 

Obviously, Mihawk is no Whitebeard, but in other words, top tiers are very sturdy and durable. I don't think that Zoro's strongest attack would necessarily kill Mihawk at all if he left himself open like that, though I do think that he would be injured for sure. 

I just disagree with the certainty with which people are making such a statement with. It's not really supported.





♦Young Master♦ said:


> If Zoro cuts you in the neck and you're wide open, you're going to die. Even Morgan was able to cut a wide open Garp.
> 
> Jesus, top tiers are so overrated in this section. If Zoro can't even cut Mihawk with a free open slash without CoA or anything protecting him, then fuck 2 year timeskips these motherfuckers are gonna need 5+ years to compete with these people.
> 
> Law, Kidd, and the rest of the supernova's most be absolute fucktards for thinking they can take out a Yonko then.



I think you should read carefully. No one is saying that Zoro can't cut Mihawk with a free hit. I am saying that the man would not necessarily die. 

No, they're not overrated at all, and no one said he won't be able to cut him. The whole "if they can't even compete with these guys, then timeskip was pointless, etc." argument is getting real old, real fast. 

Yeah, it's going to take a lot more than just the training over the timeskip for them to compete with these guys, and chances are, the amount of improvement the Novas will make in their journey from here onwards, is going to be more significant than the jump they made during the timeskip. Individually right now, they can't compete with the top dogs at all. 


Yeah, they're ambitious. However, Kidd is known for his recklessness, and Luffy isn't really a bright spot either. Law is the only one who is meticulous, but even then, he is vastly outmatched. We don't know about the likes of Drake and the others, but if they play their cards right, they should still do pretty well.

There's a reason why there are a couple of alliances made here.


----------



## Ryuksgelus (Mar 20, 2014)

People say some strange things.

Mihawk got  a free hit on Zoro at EB and ge didn't die so how is is overrating Mihawk to say he can't survive the same thing? WB's quake was basically a free hit and I gurantee it packs way more power than anything Zoro can currently throw out.

Are we going to play it does cutting damage card now or that Mihawk has nowhere near Akainu's endurance? Mihawk bleeds profusely but still counters and kills Zoro then goes gets patched up and is fine by the next day.



♦Young Master♦ said:


> Luffy and Zoro should be able to push an Admiral to the lower end of mid difficulty



How can only the two of them do this when we clearly see top tiers can take on half a dozen Sanji level guys at once. 

Akainu vs. BB, 

Akainu vs. WB pirates, 

Sengoku vs. BB Pirates. Akainu went through Jinbe and Iva while extremely injured with ease after easily dealing with Ace.

Oda clearly paints a picture for us that 2, 3,4 or even half a dozen high tiers can still be underdogs against a single top tier guy. There is no evidence at all that only 2 could push an Admiral mid-diff. Is this where I get a rebuttal where we pretend these are special circumstances? No these are clear examples that top tiers are still a long off goal.

I'm pretty sure if Fuji didn't have to worry about civilians he'd easily pin every enemy down trying to surround him and smash meteors at them while they're flattened.GG SH, Gladiators, and Joker family. This is not an unreasonable assumption of what Fuji can do when serious.


----------



## Orca (Mar 20, 2014)

If Zoro lands a clean hit on mihawk's neck and beheads him, then Mihawk isn't living after that. 

If zoro lands his strongest move on Mihawk without dealing a fatal injury(beheading), then yeah, Mihawk for sure will survive that.


----------



## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> The Shanks/EB Sea King issue: I see it as a pilot chapter issue. I do not think Oda had his story planned out that far at the time, nor do I think that he had originally intended for Shanks to be that powerful eventually.
> 
> Well, someone like Akainu was completely open to what was probably Whitebeard's strongest attack at the time under his condition, and it only impeded him for an instant before the former melted his face.
> 
> ...



just showing u it was in the manga and not baseless.

WB vs Akainu is a complete different situation.


Squaed just used normal stab on WB and he did not hit WB in any vital point. On top of that WB was the WSM and was still breathing after half of his face was gone. He is an exception to all rules.

Mihawk will die if he just stand there and try to tank Zoro's strongest attack without anykind of CoA defense.


Its just common sense really, just think about it what i said


> If Mihawk gives Current Zoro a free shoot and Zoro is really determined & serious about killing Mihawk then make no mistake Mihawk will die.


this is a situation where
1. Mihawk wount dodge
2. Mihawk wount use any CoA
3. Mihawk has no logia advantage
4. PostTS Zoro wants to kill Mihawk
5. Zoro will use his strongest attack

How is Mihawk surviving this ? Also i see u agree Zoro can cut Mihawk so whats stopping Zoro from cutting Mihawks throat or heart or his balls ? and dont say its silly cause Zoro wants to kill Mihawk in one hit remember ?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

StrawHat4Life said:


> What does this really prove though?



That Zoro has the offensive power required to bring most supernovas from 100 Percent health to below 20 percent or whatever percent you think is needed to render them unable to continue fighting. 

Which is all i said in my post, besides adding that if Zoro can do it a top tier can do it as well. 




> He's just not going to hit them with his best move right off the bat and win the fight. That's not how it works


. 

Never said zoro would do that. My post was strictly about the offensive power that Zoro has. 

Bonney and Law can also one shot all the supernovas. 



> The other supernova's likely have their own finishing techniques as well, and defenses which Zoro will have to get around.



I'm quite sure they do. 



> Technically I can argue that Bonney could just turn Zoro into an infant then strangle him to death. Doesn't mean she can actually pull it off in the heat of battle.



Agreed.




Venom said:


> I belive you that you are serious.
> That was not what I meant though.
> I was joking when I said that Zoro would change the outcome of the battle. Obviously he won't.
> But you thought I was serious.
> Hence the "You are better than this"- you should have understood that it was a joke



I don't really know what your opinions are on Supernova's and top tiers strength relations, and many people forget all the time that Zoro is a supernova. 

And this is the internet. 

But if you were joking whatever then.


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## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

> WB vs Akainu is a complete different situation.



As Ryuksgelus had said it still comes down to endurance. Whitebeard had a free hit on Akainu, on the back of his cranium, with the full intention of killing him.

The point is that Whitebeard's offensive output and power is vastly superior to Zoro's by leaps and bounds, unless you think Mihawk's durability is vastly inferior to Akainu's. 




> Squaed just used normal stab on WB and he did not hit WB in any vital point. On top of that WB was the WSM and was still breathing after half of his face was gone. He is an exception to all rules.



How do you know if it was a normal stab? Didn't seem that way at all. Seemed like Squard committed a great deal to strike Whitebeard. 

It went through his chest, and came out from his back. It was also something which triggered his heart attack. I can't see how it isn't vital at all. 

No, the point isn't that WB is an exception. The point is that Whitebeard still fought an entire war and took all that damage after being stabbed through an open opportunity. 

Of course, Mihawk's durability should be inferior to Whitebeard's, but it shouldn't be to the point where a slash from Zoro should kill him in one attack.....which is the point: that top tiers possess durability which is more impressive than you guys give them credit for. 



> Mihawk will die if he just stand there and try to tank Zoro's strongest attack without anykind of CoA defense.



nah, that's baseless

I've seen nothing to suggest that he would die from that. Top tiers have shown too monstrous a durability in general to succumb to that, when they can take mountain-island damaging attacks, and I believe that Mihawk is the same. 



> Its just common sense really, just think about it what i said
> 
> this is a situation where
> 1. Mihawk wount dodge
> ...



It's not common sense when your logic doesn't somehow set the precedent for the logic of the series' rules. The differences in strength and stats are so enormous that unlike real life, practicality doesn't really come into it. 

It comes down to whether or not Mihawk's base durability, is good enough to withstand Zoro's strongest attack, to the point where he can survive.

And honestly, I believe he can. 





> How is Mihawk surviving this ? Also i see u agree Zoro can cut Mihawk so whats stopping Zoro from cutting Mihawks throat or heart or his balls ? and dont say its silly cause Zoro wants to kill Mihawk in one hit remember ?



His balls?  I see that you are not sparing any opportunity to denigrate the character as usual 

anyways, by cut, I mean that yes, I do see Zoro landing a cut on Mihawk, and hurting his flesh effectively under such circumstances. 

However, I do not think for a second, that it automatically equates to his death.


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## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> As Ryuksgelus had said it still comes down to endurance. Whitebeard had a free hit on Akainu, on the back of his cranium, with the full intention of killing him.
> The point is that Whitebeard's offensive output and power is vastly superior to Zoro's by leaps and bounds, unless you think Mihawk's durability is vastly inferior to Akainu's.
> How do you know if it was a normal stab? Didn't seem that way at all. Seemed like Squard committed a great deal to strike Whitebeard.
> It went through his chest, and came out from his back. It was also something which triggered his heart attack. I can't see how it isn't vital at all.
> ...



all this will lead us off topic (which happens most of the time when debating u) so i am just gonna reply the main point of ur post.That way we will be able to avoid off topic wall of text.




> His balls?  I see that you are not sparing any opportunity to denigrate the character as usual
> 
> anyways, by cut, I mean that yes, I do see Zoro landing a cut on Mihawk, and hurting his flesh effectively under such circumstances.
> 
> However, I do not think for a second, that it automatically equates to his death.



Replace Mihawks ball with Shanks balls and result would be the same. Zoro will cut Shanks balls and will be the reason of Shanks death in that exact situation (is it ok now  )

What do u mean by that ? R u saying Zoro will give mihawk a tiny scratch like DD got from Law ? 

Stabbed in the heart = death , cut ur head from ur body = death , cut balls from ur body = death 


Edit:
Btw, do u think in the same situation my boy Law can one shoot Mihawk ?


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## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

> all this will lead us off topic (which happens most of the time when debating u) so i am just gonna reply the main point of ur post.That way we will be able to avoid off topic wall of text.



Well that is because you fabricate these elaborate scenarios and comparisons sometimes, so what do you expect bro, am just trying to address all of them to make sure I don't leave anything out  




> Replace Mihawks ball with Shanks balls and result would be the same. Zoro will cut Shanks balls and will be the reason of Shanks death in that exact situation (is it ok now  )



it's all good 



> What do u mean by that ? R u saying Zoro will give mihawk a tiny scratch like DD got from Law ?



Not a tiny scratch, a legitimate injury for sure. Can't really say by how much, but I wasn't trying to say that it would only be a flesh wound, if that was the impression I gave you. 



> Stabbed in the heart = death , cut ur head from ur body = death , cut balls from ur body = death



Balls of.....oh wait 


It comes down to whether or not Zoro's strongest attack, can bypass Mihawk's base durability to the point where it can kill him. 

In real life, any of those you listed, would result in certain death for sure. 

However, this is not real life anatomy.


@ Law scenario: 

If Mihawk gave him a free opening without keeping his own CoA defences? Sure, since unlike Zoro, Law doesn't need to bypass durability to cut.


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## Unclear Justice (Mar 20, 2014)

Stuff like this is unpredictable. We know next to nothing about 8 supernova and the extent of the power of most top tiers is also pretty vague especially in terms of Haki which would be very important here.


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## Shinthia (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> Well that is because you fabricate these elaborate scenarios and comparisons sometimes, so what do you expect bro, am just trying to address all of them to make sure I don't leave anything out



i hate typing and u love it. This is why i dont debate u unless i really have to 




> Not a tiny scratch, a legitimate injury for sure. Can't really say by how much, but I wasn't trying to say that it would only be a flesh wound, if that was the impression I gave you.



ok.



> Balls of.....oh wait
> 
> 
> It comes down to whether or not Zoro's strongest attack, can bypass Mihawk's base durability to the point where it can kill him.
> ...



In manga even Mihawk wount cut Coby in half cause its One Piece but that does not mean Mihawk _cant _cut Coby in half.



> @ Law scenario:
> 
> If Mihawk gave him a free opening without keeping his own CoA defences? Sure, since unlike Zoro, Law doesn't need to bypass durability to cut.



can u say it again "In that case Badass Awesome Law will one shoot Mihawk"


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## StrawHat4Life (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> That Zoro has the offensive power required to bring most supernovas from 100 Percent health to below 20 percent or whatever percent you think is needed to render them unable to continue fighting. Which is all i said in my post, besides adding that if Zoro can do it a top tier can do it as well.



Is every a top tier a master swordsman? Zoro has the potential for more lethality due to the nature of his fighting style. You really can't compare a swordsman to a brawler, or an elemental user, etc.


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

The last 20 arguments from everyone is retarded. How the heck did everyone start talking about this 1 hit bullshit?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

StrawHat4Life said:


> Is every a top tier a master swordsman? ☻the nature of his fighting style. You really can't compare a swordsman to a brawler, or an elemental user, etc.



They dont need to be, most high level toptiers are even more lethal then a swordsmen regardless.

Luffy has simliar damage out put as zoro, and sanji deep roasting you is not far behind. Vergo did massive damage to smoker with one quick swing of his bamboo.

If zoro can do it even if its blunt force via a garp punch it can be done. Think of it like this would brooks attacks hurt zoro anywhere near as much as vergo smacking him with his bamboo


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> They dont need to be, most high level toptiers are even more lethal then a swordsmen regardless.
> 
> Luffy has simliar damage out put as zoro, and sanji deep roasting you is not far behind. Vergo did massive damage to smoker with one quick swing of his bamboo.
> 
> If zoro can do it even if its blunt force via a garp punch it can be done. Think of it like this would brooks attacks hurt zoro anywhere near as much as vergo smacking him with his bamboo



These attacks are different from Zoro's though. Vergo fucked up Smoker with his attack, didn't cut him. If Zoro used CoA against Monet, she would'v died in two big pieces, that's how lethal a sword is comparing to a fist. Luffy can fuck people up with his punches, but he can't cut them. People can recover from punches in the face in the long run, but can't recover from having your face cut in half in the long run.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 20, 2014)

^THIS is one piece not berserk zoro being a swordsmen is hardly relevant as this is a manga and not real life.

Luffy should be punching holes through peoples chest,  sanji should be roasting peoples insides causing blood to  blast everywhere, zoro should be cutting body parts off ect

Having your head crushed kills you just fine as well, but yes swords are more lethal but this is a manga and feats speak for themselves in that sanji and luffys attacks are very much comparable to zoro in the damage they do.

Which is my point that people comparable to Zoro like luffy have comparable damage out put go figure despite the type of attacks being used.


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

First and for most, we got to understand how strong the novas actually is. People here generally associate Novas with high tiers such as VA and standard WB allies captains, Jinbie, etc. And seriously, you couldn't be more wrong.

Novas are essentially Luffy's rivals and their strength generally go hand in hand with him and the power scaling should correlate with how strong Luffy is currently.

If the Novas are all VA levels, then obviously they get steam role by an Admiral. But if 8 of them is around Doflamingo's level, they they can take on 3 top tiers simultaneously.


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> ^THIS is one piece not berserk zoro being a swordsmen is hardly relevant as this is a manga and not real life.
> 
> Luffy should be punching holes through peoples chest,  sanji should be roasting peoples insides causing blood to  blast everywhere, zoro should be cutting body parts off ect
> 
> ...




No they're not.

M3 vs Kraken. Sanji burned the guy, Luffy knocked the guy, Zoro cut the guy. Cut is more painful than knock and burn.


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## Magician (Mar 20, 2014)

Zoro cut the PH Dragon's head off.


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

♦Young Master♦ said:


> Zoro cut the PH Dragon's head off.



While Luffy found his skin hard. Yes.


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> While Luffy found his skin hard. Yes.



Wasn't that just for a G2 Gatling? And Zoro's 3 swords style did nothing? Wouldn't G3 or Red Hawk destroy that Dragon?


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

Lionel Messi said:


> i hate typing and u love it. This is why i dont debate u unless i really have to



Oh the money here brother!


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> Wasn't that just for a G2 Gatling? And Zoro's 3 swords style did nothing? Wouldn't G3 or Red Hawk destroy that Dragon?



Zoro cut the head with one sword.


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Zoro cut the head with one sword.



And?

10char


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> And?
> 
> 10char



swords are more lethal than fists, that's and.


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

oOLawlietOo said:


> swords are more lethal than fists, that's and.



I disagree.

Firstly, both Zoro's 3 swords style and Luffy's Gatling did nothing to that dragon. Yes Zoro's lion strike with 1 sword had concentrated power and cut that dragon's head off, but Luffy's G3 Elephant Gun should also be capable of crushing that Dragon's bones.

WB would most likely do more damage to Mihawk with an island splitter vs. His World's strongest Slash. It just comes down to who's stronger, not who's using a sword.


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## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> First and for most, we got to understand how strong the novas actually is. People here generally associate Novas with high tiers such as VA and standard WB allies captains, Jinbie, etc. And seriously, you couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Novas are essentially Luffy's rivals and their strength generally go hand in hand with him and the power scaling should correlate with how strong Luffy is currently.
> 
> If the Novas are all VA levels, then obviously they get steam role by an Admiral. But if 8 of them is around Doflamingo's level, they they can take on 3 top tiers simultaneously.



That's the thing.

I find it totally absurd to think that currently, there could be so many of them on Doflamingo's level. 

Truth is, I don't believe that even Luffy is currently at Doflamingo's level himself, but that remains to 
be seen, truly.

People associate them being around the VA level more or less, because Sanji & Zoro, both individuals in Luffy's bracket of strength, are around that level as well(high VA level). The SNs in general are either weaker than those two, or a bit stronger. 

It's ridiculous to think that so many of them are on Doflamingo's level.


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## Mihawk (Mar 20, 2014)

Sabo said:


> Oh the money here brother!



You do the very same thing though  

walls of text and paragraphs which baffle even Corus


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> You do the very same thing though
> 
> walls of text and paragraphs which baffle even Corus



I got too much times on my hands these days, but my TL; LR is still nowhere as long as the top tier debaters here.

I get baffle when you reply to my post these days though. Each time it happens, I either have to allocate a couple hours to respond to it or indirectly admit defeat because I don't have the energy and motivation to keep up.


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## Lawliet (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't have the time nor the energy to write long walls of text. School has been raping me constantly in the past few weeks.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 20, 2014)

People honestly scaling the SN to Doflamingo now? It's like you people believe the majority of their power increase will have come from their training and their actual struggles are nothing more than refining their skill&strength. 



StrawHat4Life said:


> Is every a top tier a master swordsman? Zoro has the potential for more lethality due to the nature of his fighting style. You really can't compare a swordsman to a brawler, or an elemental user, etc.



lol the different types of damage argument. You can when a punch from a guy can split an entire island while Zoro's strongest slash is barely city level right now. 

When the level of attacks are worlds apart you certainly can compare despite different types of damage.


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## Ryuksgelus (Mar 21, 2014)

Huh? The smash to the back of the skull most certainly was a free hit. The latter hit was basically open as well.

What is your point with Mihawk and Zoro?  We clearly see a giant sword cut through guy's chest deep enough he coughs up blood and it leaves a permanent scar.

The exact same scene would play out if the tables were turned this chapter only difference being Mihawk would persevere through the wound better despite Zoro not holding back. How is that any different than Akainu persevering through his ribcage and cranium being smashed with likely internal organ damage?


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## Shinthia (Mar 21, 2014)

Ryuksgelus said:


> Huh? The smash to the back of the skull most certainly was a free hit. The latter hit was basically open as well.
> The exact same scene would play out if the tables were turned this chapter only difference being Mihawk would persevere through the wound better despite Zoro not holding back. How is that any different than Akainu persevering through his ribcage and cranium being smashed with likely internal organ damage?



Mihawk vs Zoro free hit scenario and Akainu vs WB free hit scenario is 2 completely different scenario. Mihawk will not use any haki defense and Zoro will use his strongest attack with intention to kill. But,thats not the case for Akainu. Someone warned Akainu about WB and Akainu most probably used his CoA defense and also that attack was not that strong of an attack compared to WB final one(seeing the ground is not completely destroyed like the final one).And its safe to assume a top tier like Akainu used CoA defense for that last WB attack too. So, i would not bring WB&Akainu in this topic.



> What is your point with Mihawk and Zoro?  We clearly see a giant sword cut through guy's chest deep enough he coughs up blood and it leaves a permanent scar.



I think he meant Mihawk could have cut Zoro in half (in other words Kill Zoro) if he wanted to. Its just that Mihawk did not wanted to kill Zoro .


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## Lmao (Mar 21, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> I'm not sure if Garp was really injured beyond superficial bleeding.
> 
> For example, when he left himself wide open to Luffy, Luffy sent him off Inazuma's bridge, and Garp was bleeding from the head. But I do not think that it was any meaningful injury for the man, beyond superficial bleeding either.


Point is Zoro is astronomically stronger than Morgan and far more lethal than MF Luffy, who as you mentioned made Garp bleed from his head with a Jet Pistol.


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## Harard (Mar 21, 2014)

Roger, Whitebeard, and maybe...just maybe Garp have a shot.  Unlike many here, I doubt Prime Rayleigh could do it.


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 21, 2014)

Messi's got my point and explained it, too. It's not just that Mihawk could kill Zoro; he outright *stated* he didn't use an attack that was strong enough to kill him, so you saying Mihawk got a free hit on Zoro and didn't kill him is a shitty example that's pretty illogical.
Anyway, I pretty much agree with Harard. Probably just prime Garp, prime WB and Roger could do it.


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## Mihawk (Mar 21, 2014)

hurrrrrrrd said:


> I agree with you on the pilot chapter issue part.
> That said, I believe some of your exclamations are simply wrong; Akainu was nowhere near being *completely* open to WB's strike. He could've had his CoA active at the time, and we don't know just how good Akainu is at using it.
> If current Zoro was given a free hit to strike Mihawk with, while the latter didn't use a single type of defense, Mihawk would _definitely_ die. To be honest, I don't even know if he could survive a strike from Zoro with only his CoA active.
> 
> If Law, who you admitted that is meticulous, believes he can go after a Yonkou with his plan and Luffy, you can't instantly assume he's going to get his ass handed. Basil doesn't seem too reckless to me either, and he's in the same alliance with Kidd, who also has Killer by his side.



Yes, he was. Akainu was busy dealing with Marco in front of him, who was holding him back with his blue flames, before Whitebeard swiftly came up from behind him and planted a quake to the back of his skull. Akainu most likely had his CoA active and concentrated against Marco, but how does it even make sense to say that it protects his *back* from a bloodlusted WB? It doesn't. 

No, there is nothing "definite" about it. In fact, I am almost certain that Mihawk will not die, because you'd have to be seriously underestimating top tier base durability o think that. 

It's pretty sad that people in the section now think that Zoro might even one-shot Mihawk while the latter has his CoA active too. I guess this is where we've come to.

Why can't I assume that he might get his ass-handed, just because he is cautious and intelligent? Being meticulous and planning ahead prudently is great, because it lowers one's chances to be involved in a disadvantageous or unwanted situation. 

However, composure and cunning only gets you so far when you are vastly inferior to a Yonko.  



Lmao said:


> Point is Zoro is astronomically stronger than Morgan and far more lethal than MF Luffy, who as you mentioned made Garp bleed from his head with a Jet Pistol.



and Whitebeard's offensive power is astronomically stronger than Zoro. 

I really do not think that Mihawk will not necessarily die.


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## Shanks (Mar 21, 2014)

I believe that Zoro can cut WB's balls off if he gets a free shot without CoA activated and WB will still live for a while and fight on, but I don't believe Akainu, Mihawk, Shanks or even Dragon will live after getting slash by a lion strike on the balls... or neck.

Balls of steel might be a bit more difficult to cut off and hurt of course.


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## Mihawk (Mar 21, 2014)

Pretty sure Zoro is not that dishonourable to aim for the balls...


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## Shinthia (Mar 22, 2014)

Doflαmingo said:


> Pretty sure Zoro is not that dishonourable to aim for the balls...



I will just ask ,have u ever encountered a wild animal that u can guarantee will never bite off ur balls , i haven't


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 22, 2014)

Lmao. Anyway:


Doflαmingo said:


> Yes, he was. Akainu was busy dealing with Marco in front of him, who was holding him back with his blue flames, before Whitebeard swiftly came up from behind him and planted a quake to the back of his skull. Akainu most likely had his CoA active and concentrated against Marco, but how does it even make sense to say that it protects his *back* from a bloodlusted WB? It doesn't.


It seems like activating CoA haki takes less than a second. It makes perfect sense to me.


> No, there is nothing "definite" about it. In fact, I am almost certain that Mihawk will not die, because you'd have to be seriously underestimating top tier base durability o think that.


Doesn't matter. If anyone stood before current Zoro with their CoA inactive, waiting for him to lay a hit on them... They won't come out of it alive. No one can survive an Ashura Makyusen/Ichibugin without any defenses.


> It's pretty sad that people in the section now think that Zoro might even one-shot Mihawk while the latter has his CoA active too. I guess this is where we've come to.


I only said it might happen, since we don't even know how strong Mihawk's CoA is.



> Why can't I assume that he might get his ass-handed, just because he is cautious and intelligent? Being meticulous and planning ahead prudently is great, because it lowers one's chances to be involved in a disadvantageous or unwanted situation.
> 
> However, composure and cunning only gets you so far when you are vastly inferior to a Yonko.


My point was, that if he's so sure about himself and has everything planned out, it probably doesn't mean he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing and that he's gonna get wrecked the instant he meets Kaidou.



> and Whitebeard's offensive power is astronomically stronger than Zoro.


And Akainu's durablity is astronomically stronger than Mihawk's.



> I really do not think that Mihawk will not necessarily die.


den y r u arguin


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## Darth (Mar 22, 2014)

Where did all this Prime Garp hype come from? Did he suddenly get feats that made him ultra top tier?


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## Magician (Mar 22, 2014)

Maybe him being a rival to Roger, the GOAT of One Piece and cornering him a shit ton of times?


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## Shanks (Mar 22, 2014)

*hurrrrrrrd*, did you not read my post? Even if Zoro cut WB's balls of, WB will still live and fight on.  . There's at least 1 person that can tank Zoro's strongest attack without CoA.


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## Dunno (Mar 22, 2014)

Whitebeard was pierced by fodder-Sqardo. If Squardo can penetrate WBs entire torso, Zoro can obviously penetrate Mihawk's neck, or the neck of any other top tier. Zoro would one-shot anyone who just stands there and don't try to dodge or defend in any way. The only way Mihawk survives is if his durability is far superior to WBs, which I don't think is the case.


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## Magician (Mar 22, 2014)

Dunno, take a rep.


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## Shanks (Mar 22, 2014)

Zoro penetrate Mihawk's what now? I though they were just teacher & student relationship?


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 22, 2014)

Any Admiral level fighter could do imo.


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## Canute87 (Mar 22, 2014)

11 High tier fighters some with very broken abilities?


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## Kaiser (Mar 22, 2014)

Admirals, Yonkous, Mihawk, Prime Garp, Roger, Shiki, and maybe Sengoku in his prime


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## Captain Altintop (Mar 22, 2014)

Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji would beat all .... Haki is the key

High diff of course.


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## hurrrrrrrd (Mar 22, 2014)

Dunno said:


> Whitebeard was pierced by fodder-Sqardo. If Squardo can penetrate WBs entire torso, Zoro can obviously penetrate Mihawk's neck, or the neck of any other top tier. Zoro would one-shot anyone who just stands there and don't try to dodge or defend in any way. The only way Mihawk survives is if his durability is far superior to WBs, which I don't think is the case.



Basically this, although Squardo wasn't fodder.
I'm not even going to reply to most of the people here who don't bother reading anything and just say any top tier can solo dem hax0rz.
As for Garp, that hype came when old-ass Garp knocked Macro the fuck away with a casual punch. He had a bunch of other feats, including the whole Roger's equal thing, proving he's around WB-level.


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