# Spiral Zetsu vs. Itachi (Ch. 662 spoilers)



## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

*Location:* Alliance vs. Alive Sage Madara
*Distance:* 15m
*Knowledge:* Full
*Mindset:* In-character
*Conditions/Restrictions:*
-Itachi is alive and healthy with good eyesight.
-Spiral Zetsu starts on top of his own Shinsuusenju.

Let's do this.


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## Alex Payne (Jan 22, 2014)

The only problem is chakra absorption imo. Not sure how Susano would react to that. If absorption affects Susano first without simultaneously sucking chakra from Itachi himself - then maybe Itachi can sustain his Mecha long enough to get into range for Totsuka. If both Susano and Itachi would be affected... Not sure about Amaterasu either.

I am still not sure what happened. If Zetsu suddenly attacked Gokage with his haxed chakra absorption quickly making them unable to use their most powerful stuff then he isn't that dangerous in normal combat without an element of surprise. Tsunade+Onoki should have been able to oneshot that thing normally.


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## ARGUS (Jan 22, 2014)

I think the SS that zetsu used was still quite small compared to the juubi sized SS that hashirama used 
we cant really compare  its abilities to hashiramas,,,, but depending on its chakra absorbing abilities 
and if it can use CK,,, then i give Zetsu the edge here 
Zetsu wins only because itachi is alive


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

Zetsu wins, never thought I would say that though not going to lie. I gets me curios, what was so interesting about the Zetsu to Orochimaru? Is there a person inside? Or perhaps its a separate entity that was not created by Hashiramas DNA and it was what saved Madara?


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## Alex Payne (Jan 22, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Zetsu wins, never thought I would say that though not going to lie. I gets me curios, what was so interesting about the Zetsu to Orochimaru? Is there a person inside? Or perhaps its a separate entity that was not created by Hashiramas DNA and it was what saved Madara?


Yamato being inside sounds plausible.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Yamato being inside sounds plausible.



That would surely be a big twist of events.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jan 22, 2014)

Itachi deflects the elemental barrage with Yata and seals the statue with Totsuga. Proceeds to taijutsu blitz spiral zetsu.

Itachi wins


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## ueharakk (Jan 22, 2014)

The buddah is far larger than Itachi's susanoo and possesses tons of hands that it can freely control.

It grabs the arms of itachi's susanoo and yanks yaata and totsuka away while or after which it barrages his susanoo and itachi until they are no more.

Sure the buddah is not even close to being as large as Hashi's, but just its body is still around the same size as GM's.  Considering mokujin could hold PS's arms in place, i'm pretty sure the buddah could do the same to itachi's susanoo considering the massive size and number of limbs disparity.


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## Turrin (Jan 22, 2014)

Itachi would loose. If Spiral Can bust out Shinsuusenju, he can probably use a fair number of Hashirama's other Mokuton abilities and even if he couldn't Shinsuusenju (w/ all 5 Elements) and the other Zetsu/Mokuton abilities he's displayed would already be too much for Itachi to handle.



> Yamato being inside sounds plausible.


Now this is an interesting thought.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

I love new chapter hype.

It makes people suffer from the temporary dementia that Amaterasu does not exist.


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## Alex Payne (Jan 22, 2014)

Amaterasu against giant chakra-draining wood monster that can continuously grow wood parts? Not so sure about it being effective here.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

I meant hitting Spiral Zetsu with it. Itachi doesn't have to touch the statue.


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## Alex Payne (Jan 22, 2014)

Zetsu is a regenerating sensor with full knowledge on everything. I don't usually dismiss Ama with lolsensor/lolknowledge but Zetsu is one of the rare few well-suited for such a task imo.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Spiral Zetsu stomps, apparently not even Jinton was able to do much to the Shinsuusenju.

Plus Shinsuusenju will stomp Susanoo harder than it stomped a _Perfect_ Susanoo coated Kurama.

How could we possibly think Itachi has a shot against something which stomped a stronger version of his jutsu?


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## Garcher (Jan 22, 2014)

Yata Mirror deflects anything Zetsu throws at Itachi
Totsuka one shots shinsuu, what shouldn't be too hard if you look at the size of that thing.

Then Itachi burns Zetsu to death via Amaterasu.


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## richard lewis (Jan 22, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Amaterasu against giant chakra-draining wood monster that can continuously grow wood parts? Not so sure about it being effective here.



can Shinsuusenju absorb chakra though? I thought only the makuton dragon could do that?


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## ZE (Jan 22, 2014)

Spiral Zetzu is fighting the Gokage+Sarutobi+plenty of other nins with Kyuubi's chakra shroud and is winning. Even Edo Madara was losing against the gokage before he had to resort to PS. 

I dunno, but it wouldn't surprise me if mini-Shinsuusenju was as strong as PS.
Sage Shinsuusenju was>PS+Kyuubi
mini-Shinsuusenju should be at least equal to PS
Hashirama's Buddha was equality matched with Madara's PS, Shinsuusenju shouldn't be weaker than that, plus Shinsuusenju can spam all elements


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Spiral Zetsu stomps, apparently not even Jinton was able to do much to the Shinsuusenju.
> 
> Plus Shinsuusenju will stomp Susanoo harder than it stomped a _Perfect_ Susanoo coated Kurama.
> 
> How could we possibly think Itachi has a shot against something which stomped a stronger version of his jutsu?



This is obviously a much-watered down version of Hashirama's Jutsu if Mei can take a hit from it and not be instantly liquified.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

alex payne said:


> Zetsu is a regenerating sensor with full knowledge on everything. I don't usually dismiss Ama with lolsensor/lolknowledge but Zetsu is one of the rare few well-suited for such a task imo.



Edo Nagato was a regenerating sensor with knowledge of Amaterasu. Look how that turned out.


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## ZE (Jan 22, 2014)

Itachi was one meter away from Nagato because Nagato allowed him to get on his bird. 
Spiral Zetzu wouldn't allow Itachi to approach him. 
Also, Nagato sensed Itachi's amateratsu, and didn't do nothing.
He was hit by the flames, and still didn't do a thing.

For amateratsu to work, Zetzu would have to allow Itachi to get near him.
Do nothing upon being hit by the jutsu.
And still do nothing after getting hit by it. Not likely at all, because, unlike Nagato, Zetzu has a reason to do something.


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## Krippy (Jan 22, 2014)

Itachi shunshins up the statue and totsuka blitzes zetsu.


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## LostSelf (Jan 22, 2014)

Itachi's shot is using Amaterasu on Zetsu. I don't know if Zetsu senses, if someone would be kind enough to give me a link or something. 

But Itachi doesn't need to be necessarily close to use Amaterasu.

However, if that Zetsu is a sensor, Amaterasu is not likely going to work, Killer Bee was able to attack Itachi once he was warned and saw him bleeding. Zetsu just needs to do the same when he senses it coming.

Either way, Itachi is not stomped and has a fair shot here.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> This is obviously a much-watered down version of Hashirama's Jutsu if Mei can take a hit from it and not be instantly liquified.



Itachi's jutsu is a severely watered down version of Madara's whereas Spiral Zetsu's is likely just the Ninjutsu version of the Senjutsu that Hashirama used.


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## ueharakk (Jan 22, 2014)

amaterasu isn't happening considering knowledge is full, zetsu can rip off and regrow parts, and he can just fight while merged inside the statue. 

Or you know, he could just have one of the 100 buddah hands protecting himself...


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Itachi's jutsu is a severely watered down version of Madara's whereas Spiral Zetsu's is likely just the Ninjutsu version of the Senjutsu that Hashirama used.



Comparing anything to Hashirama is...a rather generous leap of faith. Maybe, maybe not; I wouldn't couch my argument on that analogy at this point, though.



ueharakk said:


> amaterasu isn't happening considering knowledge is full, zetsu can rip off and regrow parts, and he can just fight while merged inside the statue.
> 
> Or you know, he could just have one of the 100 buddah hands protecting himself...



If Zetsu blocks with a giant Mokuton hand, he can't see Itachi. Cue clone feint and weapon blitz, GG Zetsu. 



ZE said:


> Itachi was one meter away from Nagato because Nagato allowed him to get on his bird.
> Spiral Zetzu wouldn't allow Itachi to approach him.
> Also, Nagato sensed Itachi's amateratsu, and didn't do nothing.
> He was hit by the flames, and still didn't do a thing.
> ...



Didn't Sasuke murder like a dozen Zetsu with Amaterasu/Enton? Yeah...


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## Alex Payne (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> If Zetsu blocks with a giant Mokuton hand, he can't see Itachi. Cue clone feint and weapon blitz, GG Zetsu.


 He can sense Itachi.



Nikushimi said:


> Didn't Sasuke murder like a dozen Zetsu with Amaterasu/Enton? Yeah...


 _Sasuke_ murdering _White Zetsu_ with _EMS Enton_ is like completely irrelevant to Itachi's Amaterasu vs Spiral Zetsu+Mokuton Buddha.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

alex payne said:


> He can sense Itachi.



Sensing is not passive/always active, unless you're talking about a Sage Mode user.



> _Sasuke_ murdering _White Zetsu_ with _EMS Enton_ is like completely irrelevant to Itachi's Amaterasu vs Spiral Zetsu+Mokuton Buddha.



Besides the Buddha, what's the difference?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Comparing anything to Hashirama is...a rather generous leap of faith. Maybe, maybe not; I wouldn't couch my argument on that analogy at this point, though.



However Spiral Zetsu _is_ using Hashirama's jutsu. The only difference is that (to our knowledge) he can't utilise Senjutsu chakra. So this is most likely a Ninjutsu version of Shinsuusenju, so it isn't a giant leap of faith to say this is Hashirama's jutsu.

We could assume that it is rapidly weaker than the Senjutsu version; Senjutsu boosts Ninjutsu rapidly. However we can easily infer that Itachi's imperfect, half Susanoo is severely weaker to Madara's Perfected, whole Susanoo... which should be even weaker than the Kyuubi augmented version of said jutsu.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> However Spiral Zetsu _is_ using Hashirama's jutsu. The only difference is that (to our knowledge) he can't utilise Senjutsu chakra. So this is most likely a Ninjutsu version of Shinsuusenju, so it isn't a giant leap of faith to say this is Hashirama's jutsu.



It is a leap of faith to say that it's like the Jutsu as _Hashirama_ would use it; you may as well compare part 1 Naruto's Rasengan to Minato's. Even if the Jutsu is the same, there can be a huge difference in power depending on the user. In this case, the user isn't Hashirama...



> We could assume that it is rapidly weaker than the Senjutsu version; Senjutsu boosts Ninjutsu rapidly. However we can easily infer that Itachi's imperfect, half Susanoo is severely weaker to Madara's Perfected, whole Susanoo... which should be even weaker than the Kyuubi augmented version of said jutsu.



While this is all true, we have no basis of comparison between this Shinsuusenju and what might be Hashirama's non-Senpou version of it, since we never saw the latter.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> It is a leap of faith to say that it's like the Jutsu as _Hashirama_ would use it; you may as well compare part 1 Naruto's Rasengan to Minato's. Even if the Jutsu is the same, there can be a huge difference in power depending on the user. In this case, the user isn't Hashirama...



Except the last time Hashirama used this jutsu was in Sennin Mode, at this juncture, we have no real reason to believe that Hashirama wouldn't use the jutsu like Spirally Zetsu did.



> While this is all true, we have no basis of comparison between this Shinsuusenju and what might be Hashirama's non-Senpou version of it, since we never saw the latter.



Arguably we did in chapter 662.


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## richard lewis (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Sensing is not passive/always active, unless you're talking about a Sage Mode user.
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the Buddha, what's the difference?



considering spiral zetsu has no eyes ears or nose I think it's a resonable assumption to say that he tracks peoples location via sensing and thus it should always be active.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Except the last time Hashirama used this jutsu was in Sennin Mode, at this juncture, we have no real reason to believe that Hashirama wouldn't use the jutsu like Spirally Zetsu did.



As Spiral Zetsu is not Hashirama, we do have reason to doubt the equivalence of their use of the same Jutsu. Particularly as we have no basis of comparison between their Mokuton abilities in the first place.



> Arguably we did in chapter 662.



That remains to be confirmed.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> considering spiral zetsu has no eyes ears or nose I think it's a resonable assumption to say that he tracks peoples location via sensing and thus it should always be active.



What's under the mask?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> As Spiral Zetsu is not Hashirama, we do have reason to doubt the equivalence of their use of the same Jutsu. Particularly as we have no basis of comparison between their Mokuton abilities in the first place.



And level 4 Susanoo is child's play compared to Perfect Susanoo, so that leaves us back where we started: the notion that a weaker version of Shinsuusenju would destroy a weaker version of Perfect Susanoo.



> That remains to be confirmed.



I said it is _arguable_, not confirmed.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> And level 4 Susanoo is child's play compared to Perfect Susanoo, so that leaves us back where we started: the notion that a weaker version of Shinsuusenju would destroy a weaker version of Perfect Susanoo.



The problem lies in the impossibility of quantifying how much weaker these Jutsu are than their Hashirama/Madara iterations--at least, at this point in time.



> I said it is _arguable_, not confirmed.



It's not really arguable, either. All one can really do at this point is presume or reject it, and no rational argumentation can occur between those choices because no evidence exists for either of them.

That said, because there is still reasonable doubt and because there is no clear evidence, I'm going to refrain from conflating the Spiral Zetsu's Jutsu with Hashirama's.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 22, 2014)

Spiral Zetsu is strong enough to face and overpower all five Gokage at the same time on top of thousands of Naruto enhanced shinobi. His Shinsusenju was rendering all their attacks useless and was basically just playing around. Not sure how Itachi even wins here. Tsukuyomi's useless since Spiral Zetsu lacks eyes. Amaterasu is sensed and blocked with Mokuton. Itachi's Susano'o is overpowered and pounded to oblivion.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

Yata mirror is endowed with all the Nature transformations, this means it counters, Katon, Futon, Raiton, Doton and Suiton. However Shinsuusenju's fists are physical attacks, its a matter of breaking a normal Susanoo shield when it comes to Taijutsu and even a small version of Shinsuusnju is enough to do it. Its also arguable wether Swirly Zetsu can use at the very least the Mokouton that Obito used with Swirlys body as a median. Swirly is no regular Zetsu, there might potentially even be someone in him. Swirly Zetsu takes this handily.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Itachi's Susano'o is overpowered and pounded to oblivion.



Just like Mei, right? 

She and Pain Tendou must be Kryptonians.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Jan 22, 2014)

To think I'd see the day where people think Zetsu has a chance against Itachi.

I'll just let the new chapter hype simmer down before drawing a conclusion.



*EDIT:* How is it fair to say Spiral Zetsu beat the Gokage when it was canonically confirmed they had little to no Chakra left?


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> To think I'd see the day where people think Zetsu has a chance against Itachi.
> 
> I'll just let the new chapter hype simmer down before drawing a conclusion.



Really, it's amazing how peoples' minds change so easily. 

Your self-control has earned you some rep...and my respect.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> The problem lies in the impossibility of quantifying how much weaker these Jutsu are than their Hashirama/Madara iterations--at least, at this point in time.



However it isn't a stretch to say that Shinsuusenju is superior to Susanoo. 



> It's not really arguable, either. All one can really do at this point is presume or reject it, and no rational argumentation can occur between those choices because no evidence exists for either of them.
> 
> That said, because there is still reasonable doubt and because there is no clear evidence, I'm going to refrain from conflating the Spiral Zetsu's Jutsu with Hashirama's.



The most rational argument at this juncture would draw on support for the time being before evidence confirms or rejects the notion. The Shinsuusenju side has decent support whereas the Susanoo argument does not. 

Nothing wrong with saying they're the same jutsu.


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## Ersa (Jan 22, 2014)

I remember when Hashirama first showed his Buddha and people went around claiming he'd solo Naruto and Madara at the same time. Needless to say, NBD doesn't disappoint 

Itachi has more then a fair chance here, the punch of Hashirama's Buddha shattered Perfect Susanoo' while Zetsu's cheap knock-off didn't even hurt Mei. Itachi's Susanoo can tank them all day with a combination of Yata and V4. He just needs to find a chance to nail Zetsu with Amaterasu or grab him with flash-Susanoo and flatten him. And he is much faster then Zetsu when we consider feats.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> However it isn't a stretch to say that Shinsuusenju is superior to Susanoo.



It's not a stretch, but there's no way to verify it.

Incidentally, we were originally comparing Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju to Hashirama's (or failing to, I should say), not to Itachi's Susano'o.



> The most rational argument at this juncture would draw on support for the time being before evidence confirms or rejects the notion.



How is that the most rational argument? Rationalizing implies reason and reason implies evidence or at least premises. What evidence or premises are you operating by?



> The Shinsuusenju side has decent support whereas the Susanoo argument does not.



When did this become an issue of Shinsuusenju "side" versus Susano'o "side"? The problem in question is the impossibility of evaluating Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju in comparison to Hashirama's.



> Nothing wrong with saying they're the same jutsu.



No one's denying that they're the same Jutsu, but that doesn't mean they're the same power or that we even have a way to compare them (which we don't, which is the problem).


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## Bonly (Jan 22, 2014)

Spiral Zetsu should win more times then not. He just simply overwhelms Itachi with some wood and eventually takes him out.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

I Am Probably Wrong said:


> *EDIT:* How is it fair to say Spiral Zetsu beat the Gokage when it was canonically confirmed they had little to no Chakra left?



This is because they where using there best attacks against it. 

Ōnoki even somehow lost his hand.


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## LostSelf (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Really, it's amazing how peoples' minds change so easily.
> 
> Your self-control has earned you some rep...and my respect.



Come on Niku. The match is not that one sided to think that.


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## Jagger (Jan 22, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> I remember when Hashirama first showed his Buddha and people went around claiming he'd solo Naruto and Madara at the same time. Needless to say, NBD doesn't disappoint
> 
> Itachi has more then a fair chance here, the punch of Hashirama's Buddha shattered Perfect Susanoo' while Zetsu's cheap knock-off didn't even hurt Mei. Itachi's Susanoo can tank them all day with a combination of Yata and V4. He just needs to find a chance to nail Zetsu with Amaterasu or grab him with flash-Susanoo and flatten him. And he is much faster then Zetsu when we consider feats.


Well, Hashirama can solo Base Naruto and Base Madara at same time, though.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 22, 2014)

LostSelf said:


> Come on Niku. The match is not that one sided to think that.



I'm not sure what you mean by this.


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## LostSelf (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this.



That Spiral Zetsu is not that weak, and  his statue seemingly regenerates to the point that even Oonoki's jinton wasn't effective. Or that it absorbed their chakra pretty fast, so is normal to see people arguing for him. 

But i still see people saying he senses and i don't know why.


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## Marsala (Jan 22, 2014)

Amaterasu is more effective against Mokuton constructs than Jinton, since you only have to use it once and it will spread over the whole thing and keep burning even if new parts are grown.


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## Marsala (Jan 22, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> That's foolish to say, nothing is more effective then Jinton, it eradicates everything on a molecular level and can be shot as a beam. Furthermore, Ametarasu should only make the Budha MORE deadly, its not like it would incinerate it any time soon and while its intact, Itachi would basically be making a Ametarasu coated Budha. This means Ametarasu coated punshes as an offence and Ametarasu coated body as a Defense.



Jinton has to completely destroy Mokuton constructs, though, while Amaterasu only has to touch them and it'll spread like, well, wildfire. Also, I really doubt that they can be controlled while they're burning. Remember how Amaterasu broke Kabuto's senjutsu control over the cave?


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

Marsala said:


> Jinton has to completely destroy Mokuton constructs, though, while Amaterasu only has to touch them and it'll spread like, well, wildfire. Also, I really doubt that they can be controlled while they're burning. Remember how Amaterasu broke Kabuto's senjutsu control over the cave?



Doesn't matter if its spreads like wild fire if it does not have enough potency to actually burn the Budha quickly. Ametarasu spreads fast but it has quiet the slow burning rate. Why do they need to be controlled? He can let his Budha burn and it will still be an asset to him. Ametarasu broke Kabuto's Muki Tensei because of the heat it generated, nothing to do with control.


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## Marsala (Jan 22, 2014)

The Mokuton constructs are alive. The intense heat of Amaterasu will inhibit their movements, just as it inhibited Kabuto's Muki Tensei.

Even the Juubi itself couldn't handle Enton flames on its skin, and it is basically made of Mokuton. It had to shed a large part of its body to survive. (Of course, the Juubi is immortal, but it would have been burned down to minimum capacity if it did nothing.)


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## Ersa (Jan 22, 2014)

If Mokuton absorbs everything it touches surely Kurama's TBB would've been absorbed? Or Jinton for that matter. Amaterasu is still usable to burn the construct imo.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jan 22, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> It's not a stretch, but there's no way to verify it.
> 
> Incidentally, we were originally comparing Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju to Hashirama's (or failing to, I should say), not to Itachi's Susano'o.



It is a reasonable argument, not an established fact. That's what the BD is all about, making reasonable arguments with whatever evidence we have.

I was saying Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju would be able to beat Susanoo because a Senjutsu version of it beat _Perfect_ Susanoo.



> How is that the most rational argument? Rationalizing implies reason and reason implies evidence or at least premises. What evidence or premises are you operating by?



Supporting evidence (rather than just absolute evidence) can be used in place evidence, otherwise a lot of these _discussion_ threads would cease to exist. 

My premise is the simple approach: we saw the augmented Shinsuusenju the first time. Now we're seeing the base version.



> When did this become an issue of Shinsuusenju "side" versus Susano'o "side"? The problem in question is the impossibility of evaluating Spiral Zetsu's Shinsuusenju in comparison to Hashirama's.



It does eventually come down to those jutsu, does it not?

It is the same jutsu. The difference is more like Rasengan and Senpou: Rasengan.



> No one's denying that they're the same Jutsu, but that doesn't mean they're the same power or that we even have a way to compare them (which we don't, which is the problem).



Of course they're not the same power. The one Hashirama used on Madara was powered by Senjutsu whereas Zetsu's is powered by Ninjutsu.

Ultimately it is the same jutsu. Naruto, Jiraiya, Kakashi and Minato's Rasengan would still beat part 1 Kabuto. Likewise Shinsuusenju should always beat Susanoo; we're talking about the non EMS/Senjutsu enhanced versions.


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## Destiny Monarch (Jan 22, 2014)

Marsala said:


> The Mokuton constructs are alive. The intense heat of Amaterasu will inhibit their movements, just as it inhibited Kabuto's Muki Tensei.
> 
> Even the Juubi itself couldn't handle Enton flames on its skin, and it is basically made of Mokuton. It had to shed a large part of its body to survive. (Of course, the Juubi is immortal, but it would have been burned down to minimum capacity if it did nothing.)



Swirly does not use Senjutsu to control the Budha, seeing as how he does not have it. Who says it could not hardly the Ametarasu? If it has a way to get rid of it then why not? The Jubi would have not been burned down, Ametarasu could not burn through regular trees, to be more specific, the leafs of the trees  and you expect me to believe it can burn through a giant chakra based construct? Nonsense. 



Ersatz said:


> If Mokuton absorbs everything it touches surely Kurama's TBB would've been absorbed? Or Jinton for that matter. Amaterasu is still usable to burn the construct imo.



They had PS swords through them, it was impossible to catch them. And it would be hard for that giant Budha to attempt to suppress a tiny ball without crushing it anyways. However Swirly's Budha is much more in scale to a Bijudama and would probably be able to do so, scratch that, it WOULD be able to do so ( assuming the Bijudamas don't have PS swords combined with them).  And its safe to say it did absorb Jinton seeing as how Onoki implied he used it. Ametarasu can get absorbed once it actually starts doing some damage (which it won't), but Swirly would likely just use it to his advantage.


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