# Susanoo Feat Discussion



## IchLiebe (Nov 3, 2014)

It has come to my attention that susanoo has got too much hype and it's killing threads. It is not as strong nor as durable as people think. So let's get started.

*Sasuke-*
*
Strength of Susanoo-*


*Spoiler*: __ 



First off is Sasuke's feats. 

Feat 1- Sasuke destroyed pillars after the Ei scuffle. At first this looks good but then when you look at it, it's not shit. 

Here's the page where he destroys them.



Notice the top left panel and the samurai's talking. The roof collapsed because the columns broke and it couldn't hold the weight. Now to look at the pillars Sasuke destroyed. 

*Spoiler*: __ 








The pillars are halfway destroyed from Juugo's attack here. So Sasuke didn't do much there.

Now look at the Danzo fight.

Here Sasuke does a smash attack.



Beginning of Part 2 Sakura has that beat as you see here.

*Spoiler*: __ 








So nothing really. Sasuke does multiple attacks between here and here. Look at several pages of that pillar here, here, and here. Multiple swings and that pillar is barely hurt. Sakura or Tsunade would fucking wreck that thing. Juugo would fuck it up. But Susanoo didn't do shit. 

How about the arrow barely going in the bridge here, here, and here.

And the arrow here is just god awful.

It's not shit despite _sounding_ good. It's feats are so lack luster. About all the destruction feats besides the Kabuto fight in which Sasuke didn't do shit. The Juubito fight Sasuke only used susanoo with Naruto's BM besides a few arrows that got deflected. And him cutting the God tree limb which Tobirama did with a suiton as well as Hiruzen destroying several limbs with Enma so it ain't much there. So I'd rather not go through 20 chapters to find something everyone knows about. 




*Durability of Susanoo-* 

*Spoiler*: __ 




Sadly ain't shit shown here. I'll say the obvious Liger bomb broke ribcage susanoo. Kabuto's suiton got through ribcage.

Danzo made a gap in stage 3 with his fuuton. Now look at the page where Danzo used fuuton, Baku didn't create the gap as there was none on that panel, DANZO DID. Hate to tell you but that fuuton ain't shit to Kakuzu's fuuton from here.

KAKUZU WIPES SASUKE OFF THE FACE OF THE FUCKING EARTH. How about Madara's Katon. There are so many attacks that are stronger than than Danzo's fuuton that's it's ridiculous.

And then we never see Susanoo (Sasuke's) tested again except for EMS Sasuke's SM enhanced susanoo which got busted by Juubito smashing him into the ground (looked a lot like Kirin and here's the scan for the reference. I believe Kirin could do that if not more. Again it wasn't some super almighty attack from Juubito, just smashing them in the ground).




So then we get to *Madara *(Yeah, we'll cover Itachi last for obvious fucking reasons).

*Strength of Madara's susanoo-*

*Spoiler*: __ 




A swing that that pops up some dust and shit. Doesn't do shit despite hitting the ground.

It takes 5 v3 susanoo attacks to get through Gaara's defense here.


Mei takes a direct punch from Susanoo.

Magatama is exploding tag level.
 3 get a direct hit and Tsunade is perfectly fine, not cut blown apart or anything. First use was the only time it was actually good (look at Amaterasu and that tells the whole story here)

Then Perfect susanoo is where the real feats come from but everything before it is lackluster and ain't shit.



*Durability Of Madara's Susanoo-
*
*Spoiler*: __ 





Ribcage took Base Naruto's Oodama Rasengan.

Ribcage cracked from Raikage's karate chop.

Melted from Mei's Lava. With enough time it would get through.

Everyone knows Tsunade's punch cracked ribcage susanoo. 2 will destroy it. And Raikage with Oonoki blew a hole through it.

More than Sasuke's susanoo gots. But again not much.




*Itachi

Strength-*

*Spoiler*: __ 




Itachi busting through the wall. Base Gai can do the same fucking thing.

Susanoo's exploding tags. 

Itachi cut Orochimaru's hydra snake but Sasuke's chidori eiso cut Hachibi's tail so not that impressive.

Cut fake Kimmi's bones
 but they don't look hardened and they're hollow. Doubt they are on the level of real Kimmi's. 




*Durability-*


*Spoiler*: __ 



Kirin but we don't know the stage. All we know is Kirin got through as Itachi had burn marks and scuff marks on him after it. 

And it took explosive tags. Never saw it get attacked again.




Got lazy after the Sasuke part but if you need scans that I didn't post just reply and tell which one or ones you want and I'll get them. Do not post bullshit saying "LOL ur dumb", "susanoo is the strongest", "-insert general dumb fuckery here-".

Atlantic Storm, don't move this thread to the library. This is comparing a jutsu's strength and weaknesses.


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## Ashi (Nov 3, 2014)

Where's Kakashi


You of all people wouldn't forget his!


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## IchLiebe (Nov 3, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Where's Kakashi
> 
> 
> You of all people wouldn't forget his!



Kakashi's susanoo was beastly and it was one chapter. And I mentioned that Perfect susanoo is where susanoo gets all it's strength, hence why I didn't do Madara's or Sasuke's perfect susanoo.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 4, 2014)

Add this, this and this to EMS Sasuke's Susano Strength. 

Near 600m+ slashing range and an Enton Blade that is arguably 300m long itself, with power to severe a god tree branch and Juubi flesh in a single movement of it's arm. 

That, of course, being pre-hagoromo Sasuke.

Add this and this to sickly MS Itachi's Susano strength, near 100m+ slash range in a single swipe with power to cut through 6 durable White Snake heads at least 30m in diameter each in a single swipe; with speed to blitz Orochimaru in plain sight from at least 100m in distance. 

Add  to EMS Madara's Susano Strength, multi-kilometer lethal extension shock wave range that cut through Mokuton hands, rippled off onto mountains far away and continue on to damage terrain beyond the mountains while creating after debris clouds that surround Madara's Susano on the base ground that extend at least kilometer around the construct on the ground. 

The power of Susano is clearly in it's sword weaponry, anything else is child's play. Read the manga, Ichliebe. Any Susano user with a sword is a high-tier destructive force.


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## Veracity (Nov 4, 2014)

The point you insert about kirin breaching Sasukes Kyuubi cloak and curse mark enhanced sussano is false. 

Naruto's BM cloak could block this attack with nothing more then severed tails:this

His BSM cloak however was obliterated by  Obito's body slam, and Sasukes Sussano was clearly paralled to be equal to Naruto's BSM cloak with the Curse and Kyuubi cloak enhancements. It may seem like nothing more then a body slam, but it prolly packed more power then the standard BjuiiDama. A lot more actually.


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## ARGUS (Nov 4, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Add this, this and this to EMS Sasuke's Susano Strength.
> 
> Near 600m+ slashing range and an Enton Blade that is arguably 300m long itself, with power to severe a god tree branch and Juubi flesh in a single movement of it's arm.
> 
> That, of course, being pre-hagoromo Sasuke.


the most significant examples here involve sasukes susanoo being amplified by senjutsu, and chakra from yin and yang kurama, 
meaning that his susanoo boosted by over 6x at the very least 

although i agree with what ur saying, but using amplfied susanoo to compare against just normal susanoo isnt really valid, 
however this amplified susanoo is more durable and stronger than any other  susanoo bar PS 

but the example of enton arrow that u have provided is valid since it involves a normal susanoo, *but the enton arrow was further pooped on by mere chakra rods* 


> Add this and this to sickly MS Itachi's Susano strength, near 100m+ slash range in a single swipe with power to cut through 6 durable White Snake heads at least 30m in diameter each in a single swipe; with speed to blitz Orochimaru in plain sight from at least 100m in distance.
> 
> Add  to EMS Madara's Susano Strength, multi-kilometer lethal extension shock wave range that cut through Mokuton hands, rippled off onto mountains far away and continue on to damage terrain beyond the mountains while creating after debris clouds that surround Madara's Susano on the base ground that extend at least kilometer around the construct on the ground.
> 
> The power of Susano is clearly in it's sword weaponry, anything else is child's play. Read the manga, Ichliebe. Any Susano user with a sword is a high-tier destructive force.


All of this is good, 
especially madaras PS feats, 
him cutting multiple mountains with a single stroke of the blade, covering kilometres is a severely impressive feat,


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## IchLiebe (Nov 4, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Add this, this and this to EMS Sasuke's Susano Strength.
> 
> Near 600m+ slashing range and an Enton Blade that is arguably 300m long itself, with power to severe a god tree branch and Juubi flesh in a single movement of it's arm.
> 
> ...


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (Nov 4, 2014)

Using bad feats to prove a point is misleading.


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## SSMG (Nov 4, 2014)

TheSweetFleshofDeath said:


> Using bad feats to prove a point is misleading.



Offering no feats to disprove his point is worse.

OT... it seems the earlier verisons of susanno are not as good as i thought.


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## JuicyG (Nov 4, 2014)

Susano is amazing in my opinion. It is not invincible of course, but keep in mind that it take a top-tier to deal with Perfect Susano by themselves. And at least a Kage level shinobi to play against normal Susano's & under. The only people who cane logically talk down about Susano's in this series are in the 5 percentile of the series in power.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 4, 2014)

About madara's sword feats it shouldn't be judge on how much damage it did to the environment(AoE) but instead by it's piercing/slashing power. His muscular susanoo demolished gaara's and onoki's sand/rock defense and stop hashirama's wood dragon with it's sword. The magatama's and fist and kinda shit in comparison that's true.

Sasuke's susanoo without a full body is also a casual boss summon sized juubiling wrecker(enton blade) so that's pretty impressive. The god tree feat was impressive too(for a armored susanoo) he slashed the biggest branch made at that time. I don't think he had naruto's BM chakra cloak active at the time that would signify he wasn't not using it.


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## TheGreen1 (Nov 4, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Susano is amazing in my opinion. It is not invincible of course, but keep in mind that it take a top-tier to deal with Perfect Susano by themselves. And at least a Kage level shinobi to play against normal Susano's & under. The only people who cane logically talk down about Susano's in this series are in the 5 percentile of the series in power.



Susano'o *is* an amazing technique. But let's face it, not all Susano'o are created equal, and some are superior, while other's inferior. I'd arguably say, even with his long sword slash, that Madara's is inferior to say, Itachi's with the sealing genjutsu. And Sasuke's Enton Throwing Flying Susano'o is superior to Itachi's due to versatility. And all pale in comparison to the abilities of Kakashi's (and by that Token, Obito's) Susano'o which can throw Kamui shuriken.

But yes, having Susano'o period is an awesome ability to have, that can put you tiers ahead of your peers.


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 4, 2014)

> the most significant examples here involve sasukes susanoo being amplified by senjutsu, and chakra from yin and yang kurama,
> meaning that his susanoo boosted by over 6x at the very least


Not at all, that Susano was not covered in curse seals nor was it combined with Naruto's construct. I have no idea how you came up with that observation. 



> although i agree with what ur saying, but using amplfied susanoo to compare against just normal susanoo isnt really valid,
> however this amplified susanoo is more durable and stronger than any other  susanoo bar PS


It wasn't amplified at all. That was all EMS Sasuke, unless you actually think that weakened cloak, which was present on multiple ninja who had virtually no chakra against Spiral Zetsu did something for him. 

No, the cloak did nothing for him at that point, as it did nothing for majority of people at that point. Once the cloak dispersed against Jubito, he then covered Naruto's BSM construct in his Susano, proving it's size was what it was shown to be even without the cloak present or curse seal present. 



> All of this is good,
> especially madaras PS feats,
> him cutting multiple mountains with a single stroke of the blade, covering kilometres is a severely impressive feat,


Indeed


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## Arles Celes (Nov 4, 2014)

Nothing is invincible in this manga.

Well...Kamui offers the ultimate defense against everything for 5 minutes(maybe 10 with both eyes) and Preta could absorb things like FRS and Jinton...even being hyped as capable of absorbing all ninjutsu.

But of course neither of those even make one invincible.

BSM also was casually owned alongside a CS powered V3 Susanoo by Juubito's slam.

The most OP in terms of destructive power would be Indra's arrow and Asura avatar's Double Huge Bijuushurikens backed up by the world's entire natural energy. But that is obvious...


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 4, 2014)

Izanagi makes one invincible...literally.


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## RedChidori (Nov 4, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Add this, this and this to EMS Sasuke's Susano Strength.
> 
> Near 600m+ slashing range and an Enton Blade that is arguably 300m long itself, with power to severe a god tree branch and Juubi flesh in a single movement of it's arm.
> 
> ...



Definitely this. Wiz is on point here .


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## Sadgoob (Nov 4, 2014)

Dude, Itachi's v1 Susano'o hand broke a way thicker layer of rock than Gai did.


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## Arles Celes (Nov 4, 2014)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Izanagi makes one invincible...literally.



But only for a minute.

And Sasuke did beat a guy who used like a dozen eyes for this jutsu.

Double Rinnegan Shinju Madara with this ability lasting for like 10 minutes and without going blind would be a threat equal to Kaguya potentially...for 10 minutes.

But a normal jounin would just prolong the inevitable. As would anyone facing a stronger enemy.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 4, 2014)

I know i know i was just riding the wave posting "unbeatable techs".

Your reply was spot on tho


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## Itachі (Nov 4, 2014)

About the feats for the Gokage against Madara's Susano'o, Madara was mostly using clones so his power was split.

Also, the wall that Itachi broke through is way thicker than what Gai broke through. Look at how small the Susano'o fist is compared to the gap it created too.


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## SSMG (Nov 4, 2014)

^Base Guy has greater strength feats than busting down a wall...


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## IchLiebe (Nov 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> The point you insert about kirin breaching Sasukes Kyuubi cloak and curse mark enhanced sussano is false.
> 
> Naruto's BM cloak could block this attack with nothing more then severed tails:this
> 
> His BSM cloak however was obliterated by  Obito's body slam, and Sasukes Sussano was clearly paralled to be equal to Naruto's BSM cloak with the Curse and Kyuubi cloak enhancements. It may seem like nothing more then a body slam, but it prolly packed more power then the standard BjuiiDama. A lot more actually.



And Susanoo's was upgraded by SM and KCM chakra so it's a feat that you can't use for solely susanoo.



Icegaze said:


> your baseless hate is killing threads nothing else
> its sad



Disprove anything I said. And how is it baseless when I posted scans? 



Grimmjowsensei said:


> Guys I am trying to reduce the quality of threads in BD, what should I do ?
> 
> Oh wait lets call Ichliebe and ask him to create a thread



What did I say about general dumbfuckery? Keep out of this thread.



TheSweetFleshofDeath said:


> Using bad feats to prove a point is misleading.



How are they bad feats? They are consistent and numerous. I didn't just pick the weakest feats. I pick all the ones I found.



DaVizWiz said:


> Not at all, that Susano was not covered in curse seals nor was it combined with Naruto's construct. I have no idea how you came up with that observation.



Sasuke had KCM cloak which is a 3x power boost automatically. Look at your scan again. As for your other feat, look at the page before it, SAsuke does the same thing with Chidori eiso.



> It wasn't amplified at all. That was all EMS Sasuke, unless you actually think that weakened cloak, which was present on multiple ninja who had virtually no chakra against Spiral Zetsu did something for him.



It gives your jutsu a 3x power boost MANGA FACT. You can't just go,"No it doesn't" when the manga specifically says it does.



> No, the cloak did nothing for him at that point, as it did nothing for majority of people at that point. Once the cloak dispersed against Jubito, he then covered Naruto's BSM construct in his Susano, proving it's size was what it was shown to be even without the cloak present or curse seal present.
> 
> Indeed



Everything gets 3x stronger not 3x bigger.



Strategoob said:


> Dude, Itachi's v1 Susano'o hand broke a way thicker layer of rock than Gai did.



Way thicker? NO. Maybe a little but this is base gai compared to susanoo and that's a small gap in power. Not as much as people act.


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## Itachі (Nov 4, 2014)

SSMG said:


> ^Base Guy has greater strength feats than busting down a wall...



He definitely does, I'm not denying that.


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## Veracity (Nov 4, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And Susanoo's was upgraded by SM and KCM chakra so it's a feat that you can't use for solely susanoo.
> 
> Andddd what's your point? I never gave those fears to solely Sussano. I even went far enough to specifically add the curse seal and Kyyubi enhancement everytime I mentioned Sussano.
> 
> No, you said Kirin could replicate the feat Obito did of obliterating through solid ground and breaching Naruto and Sasukes amped defense; and I merely proved how that's dead wrong.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 4, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> And Susanoo's was upgraded by SM and KCM chakra so it's a feat that you can't use for solely susanoo.
> 
> Andddd what's your point? I never gave those fears to solely Sussano. I even went far enough to specifically add the curse seal and Kyyubi enhancement everytime I mentioned Sussano.
> 
> No, you said Kirin could replicate the feat Obito did of obliterating through solid ground and breaching Naruto and Sasukes amped defense; and I merely proved how that's dead wrong.



BM Naruto's tails only took the bijuu bomb laser, which is considerabally weaker than v2 juubi's bijju bombs, after it hit Hachibi as you can see the explosion in the scan you posted. 

I destroyed their defense, they weren't injured from the attack. Kirin did a hell of a lot of damage as well as getting through susanoo and hurting Itachi. But it is my opinion so whatever.


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## Veracity (Nov 4, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> BM Naruto's tails only took the bijuu bomb laser, which is considerabally weaker than v2 juubi's bijju bombs, after it hit Hachibi as you can see the explosion in the scan you posted.
> 
> I destroyed their defense, they weren't injured from the attack. Kirin did a hell of a lot of damage as well as getting through susanoo and hurting Itachi. But it is my opinion so whatever.



I don't understand why it being weaker then a V2 juubidama changes anything here. Any Bjuidama produced from the Juubi is far stronger then Kirin. By miles.

And the fact that Naruto's bjuiitails could provide an ample enough defense for the laser to not even touch his Bjuuibody pales in comparison to the feat of Obito completely obliterating the entire megazoid.

It also vaporized Itachis Sussano but didn't even scratch his body . And the difference between Itachis Sussano and Kyuubi + sage amped EMS Sasukes is huge. The crater produced from both attacks are also drastically different. Kirins crater is much smaller then this : hell of a lot of damage
hell of a lot of damage
Link removed


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## ARGUS (Nov 4, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Not at all, that Susano was not covered in curse seals nor was it combined with Naruto's construct. I have no idea how you came up with that observation.
> 
> It wasn't amplified at all. That was all EMS Sasuke, unless you actually think that weakened cloak, which was present on multiple ninja who had virtually no chakra against Spiral Zetsu did something for him.


Incorrect,* Sasuke had the cloak active when he chopped the god tree branch*, (notice the top left panel) 
and * Minato also combined his chakra with  narutos cloak when naruto gave sasuke the cloak meaning that the cloak involved yin and yang kyuubi, *
with each of half of kyuubi giving a boost of 3x to each jutsu, 
we get to the conclusion that sasukes susanoo was amplified by 6x when he chopped the branch

*his susanoo was also the same size of the kuraam avatar,* when not even madaras legged V3  is of that size despite madaras susanoo being much larger than sasukes in general 



> No, the cloak did nothing for him at that point, as it did nothing for majority of people at that point. Once the cloak dispersed against Jubito, he then covered Naruto's BSM construct in his Susano, proving it's size was what it was shown to be even without the cloak present or curse seal present.
> 
> Indeed



Incorrect, Sasuke formed PS without the cloak but it was later amplified by senjutsu when attacking juubito 
however the legged susanoo was boosted by 6x when he chopped the god tree in half, and when he was fighting juubito it was boosted by more than even 6x thanks to the extra senjutsu boost from the jugo


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## Baroxio (Nov 5, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> I don't understand why it being weaker then a V2 juubidama changes anything here. Any Bjuidama produced from the Juubi is far stronger then Kirin. By miles.
> 
> And the fact that Naruto's bjuiitails could provide an ample enough defense for the laser to not even touch his Bjuuibody pales in comparison to the feat of Obito completely obliterating the entire megazoid.
> 
> ...


Juubidama is inconsistent as hell due to obvious plot reasons.

Freaking Hachibi survived hitting it multiple times, and even survived his own bijuudama exploding the Juubidama while inside the Juubi's mouth.

This is the same Hachibi who Sasuke sliced and Amaterasu'd with no problem, and who Minato managed to nearly slice through with a plinky Kunai, which tells you something about his durability.

Kirin, for sure, is stronger than any of these attacks. Bijuudama in all forms has incredibly shit feats against pretty much anything living.

Bijuudama has failed to kill more people in this manga than Amaterasu has. 

I don't even know why we continue to debate characters or power levels when it's finally clear that Kishimoto himself couldn't give a flying fuck.


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## Veracity (Nov 5, 2014)

Baroxio said:


> Juubidama is inconsistent as hell due to obvious plot reasons.
> 
> Freaking Hachibi survived hitting it multiple times, and even survived his own bijuudama exploding the Juubidama while inside the Juubi's mouth.
> 
> ...



When has the juubidama ever even inconsistent? 

There is a massive difference between hitting an attack and surviving in the epicenter of the explosion . Much different.

Or maybe the Habachi is just more resistant to blunt force attacks them slicing attacks. The SAME applies to Sage Madara who retains composition after being being hit by 8 mountain busting tail slaps but gets pierced by Sasukes katana . Different characters are resistant forms of damage , and considering the Juubi slam and Kirin are both not piercing damages , it shouldn't pertain to this discussion .

You are off your rocker if you think Kirin and its single feat is superior to a bjuiidama which reduces large mountains to rubble.

Except bjuiidama are usually shot at beings with roof tier Durability and defenses. The only instance I recall of the bjuiidama failing to kill someone piss poor would be the Habachi vs Suigestu example . And that was a bjuiidama wave , and the explosion never hit Suigestu .


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 5, 2014)

> Incorrect,* Sasuke had the cloak active when he chopped the god tree branch*, (notice the top left panel)
> and * Minato also combined his chakra with  narutos cloak when naruto gave sasuke the cloak meaning that the cloak involved yin and yang kyuubi, *
> with each of half of kyuubi giving a boost of 3x to each jutsu,
> we get to the conclusion that sasukes susanoo was amplified by 6x when he chopped the branch


Yin and Yang Kyuubi mean absolutely nothing. Whether light or dark Kyuubi the power granted it is the same- it's Kurama's chakras.



> *his susanoo was also the same size of the kuraam avatar,* when not even madaras legged V3  is of that size despite madaras susanoo being much larger than sasukes in general


Meaning Sasuke's EMS PS > Edo [Weakened by admission] Madara's V3 EMS Imperfect Susano through clones 



> Incorrect, Sasuke formed PS without the cloak but it was later amplified by senjutsu when attacking juubito
> however the legged susanoo was boosted by 6x when he chopped the god tree in half, and when he was fighting juubito it was boosted by more than even 6x thanks to the extra senjutsu boost from the jugo


Meaning that he had the ability to manifest his PS without Senjutsu or the cloak. 

Your calculations are baseless. The kyuubi cloaks did virtually nothing for anyone at that point in the war other than providing an extra layer of durability. 

It was clearly proven that Sasuke could manifest his EMS PS without the inflation of Naruto's shitty chakras or the relatively weak inflation of Jugo's seal, which did nothing more than allow Sasuke to damage a Juubi Jin. At no point did Sasuke or Juugo give the impression that his PS was somehow more powerful at that point than it would have been without the cloak. Covering Naruto's BSM construct without a KM cloak proves he had the ability to manifest it himself.

Moreover, I've never seen a Susano grow in size because of a sudden inflation of chakra. If anything, all it meant was Sasuke could maintain his Perfect Susano longer. SM Living Madara's [Much stronger Madara] Susano was no larger than his Edo Base V3 Variant. Sasuke previously inflated his Susano with a combined 8 1/2 bijuu, it did not grow in size at all, all it did was grant him Indra's Lightning and a speed boost that wasn't that far off from how fast his normal PS was- which was capable of trading shots with Kaguya and equaling BSM Rikudo Naruto's Avatar in speed.


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## ARGUS (Nov 5, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> Yin and Yang Kyuubi mean absolutely nothing. Whether light or dark Kyuubi the power granted it is the same- it's Kurama's chakras.


Nope they do, 
they are both only halves of kyuubi, and when one half boosted the jutsu 3x. 
then combining the two halves would lead to yin and yang, meaning that the chakra is greater in quantity and more amplified, 
so it actually is 6x, if we go by logic 



> Meaning Sasuke's EMS PS > Edo [Weakened by admission] Madara's V3 EMS Imperfect Susano through clones


Ofcourse, 
PS >>>> V3 susanoo 


> Meaning that he had the ability to manifest his PS without Senjutsu or the cloak.


yes, i thought every one knew that


> Your calculations are baseless. The kyuubi cloaks did virtually nothing for anyone at that point in the war other than providing an extra layer of durability.


No, the kyuubi chakra made sasukes V3 about 3 times larger than his actual susanoo and even enabled him to gain legs in his susanoo, as well as the fact that his susanoos destructive feats increased exponentially, 
its not just durability that is increased, 

the kyuubis chakra is very strong and amplified, as the stronger the chakra, the stronger the susanoo, 
with the kyuubis chakra being strong means that sasukes susanoo is obviously strong as well, 

its the same how sasukes rinnegan PS is much stronger than his EMS PS, 
due to the fact that a far stronger chakra (Rikudos Chakra) is amplifying his PS 



> It was clearly proven that Sasuke could manifest his EMS PS without the inflation of Naruto's shitty chakras or the relatively weak inflation of Jugo's seal, which did nothing more than allow Sasuke to damage a Juubi Jin. At no point did Sasuke or Juugo give the impression that his PS was somehow more powerful at that point than it would have been without the cloak. Covering Naruto's BSM construct without a KM cloak proves he had the ability to manifest it himself.


Nope, jugos seal amplified sasukes PS with senjutsu, 
senjutsu is known to boost the users jutsu, in strength, 
and the cloak gives him a stronger chakra meaning that susanoo gets stronger, 

he has the ability to manfiest PS sure, 
but his PS would obviously be weaker than his PS thats amplfied by cloak and senjutsu 



> Moreover, I've never seen a Susano grow in size because of a sudden inflation of chakra. If anything, all it meant was Sasuke could maintain his Perfect Susano longer. SM Living Madara's [Much stronger Madara] Susano was no larger than his Edo Base V3 Variant. Sasuke previously inflated his Susano with a combined 8 1/2 bijuu, it did not grow in size at all, all it did was grant him Indra's Lightning and a speed boost that wasn't that far off from how fast his normal PS was- which was capable of trading shots with Kaguya and equaling BSM Rikudo Naruto's Avatar in speed.


nope, i think ur misunderstanding the concept of susanoo, 

susanoo is a representation of the users chakra, 
the kuramas chakra is not only very strong but it has shown to amplify the jutsus power seeing how kakashis kamui was tripled after only a V1 cloak, 

yin and yang  is twice the strength of just yang kyuubi, 
and size doesnt display tthe power of the susanoo either  when Rinnegan Sasukes PS is far stronger than EMS madaras despite being much smalller 

its only common sense that sasukes susanoo was boosted by 6x, by yin and yang kyuubi when yang kyuubi alone boosts jutsus by 3x,


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 6, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Dude, Itachi's v1 Susano'o hand broke a way thicker layer of rock than Gai did.



Maybe, but I do recall Base Guy breaking a rock *much* larger than what Itachi's Susano'o shattered with just his nunchucks in the fight against Obito. 

This thread is pretty funny however. It never occurred to me how even beginning-of-Part-2 Sakura's casual punch was more powerful than Sasuke's skeletal Susano'o.

I don't think in terms of strength feats, Susano'o is strong at all. The only impressive feat I recall sans Perfect Susano'o was Sasuke slicing through a 300-meter thick branch of the God Tree, but that was done with the power of Kurama vastly amplifying it.


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## ueharakk (Nov 6, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> Nope they do,
> they are both only halves of kyuubi, and when one half boosted the jutsu 3x.
> then combining the two halves would lead to yin and yang, meaning that the chakra is greater in quantity and more amplified,
> so it actually is 6x, if we go by logic



It's actually worse than that since the *3x figure you're getting* is from kakashi w/o the kyuubi cloak.  Kakashi with the kyuubi cloak is noted to have *a much stronger boost.*


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## ARGUS (Nov 6, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> It's actually worse than that since the *3x figure you're getting* is from kakashi w/o the kyuubi cloak.  Kakashi with the kyuubi cloak is noted to have *a much stronger boost.*


lmao then my point is emphasised even more, 
so sasukes boosted legged susanoo is well over 6x


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## DaVizWiz (Nov 6, 2014)

> Nope they do,
> they are both only halves of kyuubi, and when one half boosted the jutsu 3x.
> then combining the two halves would lead to yin and yang, meaning that the chakra is greater in quantity and more amplified,
> so it actually is 6x, if we go by logic


No, Naruto only replenished his reserves with dark Kurama's chakra, it wasn't a combining of Yin and Yang, nor do I believe that means the efficiency grows by another multiple of 3. 



> No, the kyuubi chakra made sasukes V3 about 3 times larger than his actual susanoo and even enabled him to gain legs in his susanoo, as well as the fact that his susanoos destructive feats increased exponentially,
> its not just durability that is increased,


This is baseless man, nothing suggests this is what happened. Just because he had the cloak on doesn't mean he was granted a larger Susano, several cloaked ninja had virtually no reserves against Spiral Zetsu. 



> the kyuubis chakra is very strong and amplified, as the stronger the chakra, the stronger the susanoo,
> with the kyuubis chakra being strong means that sasukes susanoo is obviously strong as well,


No, nothing suggests more chakra = larger Susano. No Susano user has showcased a larger V3 because of larger reserves.

Madara's V3 isn't much larger than Itachi's- and his chakra pool is worlds larger. 



> its the same how sasukes rinnegan PS is much stronger than his EMS PS,
> due to the fact that a far stronger chakra (Rikudos Chakra) is amplifying his PS


That's entirely different, Rikudo's chakra unlocked Sasuke's PS (Indra). You could have given him all of the bijuu and he wouldn't have been able to manifest that version of PS. 



> Nope, jugos seal amplified sasukes PS with senjutsu,
> senjutsu is known to boost the users jutsu, in strength,
> and the cloak gives him a stronger chakra meaning that susanoo gets stronger,


The seal wasn't active when he cut the god tree branch. 



> he has the ability to manfiest PS sure,
> but his PS would obviously be weaker than his PS thats amplfied by cloak and senjutsu


Nothing suggests this at all. 




> nope, i think ur misunderstanding the concept of susanoo,
> 
> susanoo is a representation of the users chakra,
> the kuramas chakra is not only very strong but it has shown to amplify the jutsus power seeing how kakashis kamui was tripled after only a V1 cloak,


It's not, because Madara's chakra pool is infinitely larger than Itachi's and yet their V3 Susanos barely differ in size.

Living Madara's V3 Susano did not grow from when he was in base as an Edo after he sapped Hashirama's godly reserves and entered Sage Mode, they were completely identical in size. Sasuke's PS did not grow in size at all when he had the inflation of 8 1/2 bijuu's chakras, all it did was transform and allow him to utilize Indra's lightning on a larger scale. Sasuke's (pre-hagoromo) PS did not grow in size when introduced to Juugo's curse seal. 

Your theory is incorrect. There's been several instances where a Susano user has been directly inflated with gargantuan amounts of chakra and inflated with Natural Energy, and their Susanos have not grown in size nor have they showcased considerably more advanced power feats with said Susanos.


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## ARGUS (Nov 6, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> No, Naruto only replenished his reserves with dark Kurama's chakra, it wasn't a combining of Yin and Yang, nor do I believe that means the efficiency grows by another multiple of 3.


Nope, 
half kyuubi cloak managed to increase kakashis kamui by over 3x. 
now combine the halves and you have a stronger and greater chakra, 
ofcourse itll increase 



> This is baseless man, nothing suggests this is what happened. Just because he had the cloak on doesn't mean he was granted a larger Susano, several cloaked ninja had virtually no reserves against Spiral Zetsu.


It means that the susanoo is still stronger 



> No, nothing suggests more chakra = larger Susano. No Susano user has showcased a larger V3 because of larger reserves.


not more chakra, 
''stronger'' chakra, 



> Madara's V3 isn't much larger than Itachi's- and his chakra pool is worlds larger.


Again ur mistaken 
its not about the amount of chakra 
its about the power and quality  of chakra that yields to a stronger susanoo,




> That's entirely different, Rikudo's chakra unlocked Sasuke's PS (Indra). You could have given him all of the bijuu and he wouldn't have been able to manifest that version of PS.


if he combined the bijuus chakra?  



> The seal wasn't active when he cut the god tree branch.


he stil had the cloak that was the combination of both the kyuuubis, 
so yeah it was boosted by over 6x 



> Nothing suggests this at all.
> 
> 
> It's not, because Madara's chakra pool is infinitely larger than Itachi's and yet their V3 Susanos barely differ in size.


Again, its about the power of the chakrra not the amount 



> Living Madara's V3 Susano did not grow from when he was in base as an Edo after he sapped Hashirama's godly reserves and entered Sage Mode, they were completely identical in size. Sasuke's PS did not grow in size at all when he had the inflation of 8 1/2 bijuu's chakras, all it did was transform and allow him to utilize Indra's lightning on a larger scale. Sasuke's (pre-hagoromo) PS did not grow in size when introduced to Juugo's curse seal.
> 
> Your theory is incorrect. There's been several instances where a Susano user has been directly inflated with gargantuan amounts of chakra and inflated with Natural Energy, and their Susanos have not grown in size nor have they showcased considerably more advanced power feats with said Susanos.



alright size is completely irrelevant, so ill drop that case, 
when it comes to power of susanoo, 
its about the strength and quality of chakra, 

stronger chakra  = stronger susanoo, 
sasukes susanoo was amplified by the kyuubis chakra (stronger chakra) and all the legged susanoo feats he has involved him having the shroud, boosting his susanoo

cllaiming otherwise is like saying that kyuubis chakra wont boost sasukes susanoo, which is incorrect


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## Icegaze (Nov 6, 2014)

sorry where does it say sakura punch as strong as susanoo 
please note rib cage susnaoo liquified danzo. it crushed him to just blood 
thats a strength feat clearly


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## IchLiebe (Nov 6, 2014)

It may have a stronger grip than her but she hits harder clearly.


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## Icegaze (Nov 6, 2014)

hits harder as of when 
and how is it clear 
sakura in part 2 failed to kill a zetsu while sasuke susanoo flat out killed danzo with a punch on 2 different occasions
no proof zetsu are more durable than people if anything they have been shown to be less durable


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## IchLiebe (Nov 6, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> hits harder as of when
> and how is it clear
> sakura in part 2 failed to kill a zetsu while sasuke susanoo flat out killed danzo with a punch on 2 different occasions
> no proof zetsu are more durable than people if anything they have been shown to be less durable



Read OP, Sakura put out more damage in one punch than Susanoo did several punches. Sakura's was interrogating Zetsu. Why would she kill him? He see her feat when team 7 went after the Juubi, nothing besides Perfect Susanoo comes even close to it.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 6, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> sorry where does it say sakura punch as strong as susanoo
> please note rib cage susnaoo liquified danzo. it crushed him to just blood
> thats a strength feat clearly



Pretty much this ^^^

People sleep on susano why idk

But a newly awoken ms sasuke was able to crush danzo to death and punch him to death.

If im not mistaken hopefully im not confusing the manga with the anime but itachi's susano held off oro's hydra with one arm.


Itachi's susano arm also easily chopped threw nagatos asura path arm, when naruto or bee couldn't free themselves.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 7, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Pretty much this ^^^
> 
> People sleep on susano why idk



They 'sleep' on Susanoo because Sakura at the beginning of Part 2 was able to yield a larger crater with a *casual* punch, versus a *bloodlusted* Sasuke with his skeletal stage.

Seriously, if that's the case, fighters like Toad Sages would _completely_ fuck up that form of Susanoo, physically. When it comes to pure strength, I can see Sage Jiraiya and Ay going toe-to-toe with complete, non-legged Susanoo (V2, as some of you would refer it), and Sage Naruto and Version Two Killer Bee going head-to-head with Final Susanoo (at least, Itachi or Sasuke's).

These comparisons are entirely in line with Tailed Beast Mode Naruto's avatar pinning down *Sage* Madara's complete, legged Susano'o with one tail. There's no fucking way he'd be able to do that against Eight or Four-Tails, or any Tailed Beast, really. Tailed Beasts, generally, would easily overpower any form of Susanoo in a strength contest outside of the Perfect stage.



> But a newly awoken ms sasuke was able to crush danzo to death and punch him to death.



Yeah, Sakura from the start could accomplish that too.



> If im not mistaken hopefully im not confusing the manga with the anime but itachi's susano held off oro's hydra with one arm.



With the *Yata Mirror*, you mean, which was stated to have reflective properties.



> Itachi's susano arm also easily chopped threw nagatos asura path arm, when naruto or bee couldn't free themselves.



Let's clear up some misconceptions:

Naruto was *never* in contact with Nagato's Asura Path limbs. He was held restricted by the Chameleon snake tail's tongue whilst attempting to fight off the latter's Human Path abilities. It's fair to say that he was being weakened while having his own soul yanked out of him, so he couldn't fight or resist at the best of his capabilities.

Secondarily, Killer Bee couldn't free himself from Asura Path's *robotic tentacles*, which for all we know, could be _vastly_ more durable than Nagato's actual robotic arm.

Thirdly, Susano'o physically struck Nagato, which is far easier method to break something than ripping out of it with just sheer strength.


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## Icegaze (Nov 8, 2014)

your comparisons are lol some 
u say raikage would go toe to toe with V2 susanoo yet he can barely break rib cage susanoo 
v1 susanoo killed danzo 3 times with pure strength sakura as far as i can remember till her retcon has failed to kill zetsu with a punch. 

please when did naruto kyuubi avatar pin down madara susanoo?? i cant remember that at all 
u mean when all bijuu attacked legged susanoo???

oh so u admit that yata has reflective proprieties that means it should reflect something like a BD right 

or do those proprieties vanish at ur convenience 

susanoo has easily show it has enough strike force to flat out kill people on contact. the only thing it hasnt shown is lifting force which frankly it never had the opportunity to


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## IchLiebe (Nov 8, 2014)

Sakura was interrogating Zetsu, she wasn't trying to kill him. She killed the juubi thing pretty easily though. The fact of the matter is, Sakura put out more damge than susanoo did. And Susanoo is more durable than it is strong.


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## Icegaze (Nov 8, 2014)

u are talking about sakura retcon during the war arc of course she puts out more hit more than anything else 
so yh clearlys he is stronger than susanoo
however before the retcon she still never showed she could kill a human with a punch 
susanoo did 3 times


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## IchLiebe (Nov 8, 2014)

She never punched a human so you can't say she couldn't. If her attacks did more damage than susanoo then she obviously could. She wasn't trying to kill Zetsu, she was actively interrogating him so you can't use that feat to say she couldn't when she wasn't trying to.

Susanoo hits the ground and causes damage withing 5m radius, Sakura hits the ground and causes damage within 15m radius. Sakura hits harder than Susanoo. Sakura's strength is said to be the same as Tsunade's, when Tsunade finally got contact with Madara she blew half of his body away.


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## Icegaze (Nov 8, 2014)

exactly we dont know so what makes her stronger than susanoo??
when did her attacks do more damage than susanoo before the retcon 
did susanoo ever attempt what she did ?

susanoo never struck the ground with the intention of causing AoE damage it attacked danzo specifically 

your argument is weak 

tsunade blew half an ET body away fine. sasuke punched danzo once and he was a pool of blood with feet left


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## IchLiebe (Nov 8, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> exactly we dont know so what makes her stronger than susanoo??
> when did her attacks do more damage than susanoo before the retcon
> did susanoo ever attempt what she did ?
> 
> ...



I love stupid shit.

Susanoo hit the ground, Sakura hit the ground. Both Bloodlusted Sasuke and Sakura is going to put out the most damage they can there, while you can argue Sakura wouldn't(didn't want to kill Kakashi), Sasuke was bloodlusted and obviously did. Sakura still put out more damage. 

Let's compare the strikes that are the same as obviously smashing something into the ground will do more damage than hitting it through the air. That's why you can't swat a fly in the air and kill it.

Tsunade punched Madara in the air and blew away his body. Susanoo did the same kind of punch to Danzo and Danzo showed no external injuries.


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## Icegaze (Nov 8, 2014)

good for u


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## IchLiebe (Nov 8, 2014)

It's good for the Battledome. People gotta know it ain't shit.


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## ATastyMuffin (Nov 8, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> your comparisons are lol some
> u say raikage would go toe to toe with V2 susanoo yet he can barely break rib cage susanoo



Susanoo's durability *far *exceeds its offensive capabilities; it's quite the opposite of the 3rd Raikage.

Ay's _Lightning Oppression Horizontal Chop_ didn't do jack squat against Madara's ribcage, yet its higher form, the skeletal version, didn't even manage to kill *Mei* with a direct strike. Nor did the complete, legged version put her down with a punch.

Are we supposed to infer from that that Mei can take_ Lightning Oppression Horizontal Chop_ and survive? Obviously not. The logical conclusion is that Susanoo lacks offensive power relative to its durability. And this is perfectly reasonable, since Susanoo was hyped as an incredible defense primarily.




> v1 susanoo killed danzo 3 times with pure strength sakura as far as i can remember till her retcon has failed to kill zetsu with a punch.



Zetsu were noted to be *highl*y durable the moment they were introduced in the war. Can this seriously be said about freakin' Danzo, an eighty-year old walking corpse?



> please when did naruto kyuubi avatar pin down madara susanoo?? i cant remember that at all
> u mean when all bijuu attacked legged susanoo???



Here's where it happened.

Despite Madara's power being restored to his prime, and being enhanced with senjutsu, Tailed Beast Mode Naruto pinned its entire body down with a *single* tail. Now, call me crazy, but if Naruto tried that against any Tailed Beast it wouldn't work. *Ever*.

Tailed Beasts >> Susanoo in strength, outside of Madara's Final and Perfect stages.



> oh so u admit that yata has reflective proprieties that means it should reflect something like a BD right
> 
> or do those proprieties vanish at ur convenience



The Databook states that Yata Mirror has reflective properties, so I believe that it applies when we get an *actual* on-panel feat of the Eight-Headed Hydra literally bouncing off the Mirror.

Does the Databook's statement justify the Yata Mirror deflecting something as powerful as a Tailed Beast Bomb? No, my friend. That attack creates craters from its travel path alone. The feat of deflecting a boss summon isn't anywhere near that level.  That's a case of no-limits fallacy.



> *susanoo has easily show it has enough strike force to flat out kill people on contact*. the only thing it hasnt shown is lifting force which frankly it never had the opportunity to



So? Naruto was scared shitless of Sakura at the beginning of Part 2 after witnessing a single punch. 

Know what that infers? She'd kill him in one hit. Just as feats dictate.

You're not giving me any feats of Susanoo that Sakura, or anyone physically superior, couldn't replicate.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 8, 2014)

I'm not knocking Susanoo durability as bad as I am the offense. He can't hit anywhere near as hard as it can take. It's durability is pretty good, but it's offense (up to Perfect Susanoo) is lacking BADLY.


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