# 'Healthy' Itachi in your definition?/ Realistic fighting potential of 'Healthy' Itachi?



## Ryuzaki (Feb 12, 2017)

I always added an extra half a tier in stamina to him, but nothing more than that.

Who is the strongest he can defeat?


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## Ishmael (Feb 12, 2017)

A itachi that is exactly that. Healthy with no illness and a little more stamina.


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 12, 2017)

Healthy itachi= Fanfic Itachi

Its like konan with prep

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Ashi (Feb 12, 2017)

He was healthy when he fought Kakashi and Sasuke for the first time right?

Tho at that point Itachi's stamina was even worse than in PII


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 12, 2017)

Itachi without his excruciating illness (Edo Itachi) and with stamina that's at least beyond the average shinobi's.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sadgoob (Feb 12, 2017)

Healthy Itachi was born when Black Zetsu said Itachi was "much stronger" and moved much differently than he did against Sasuke. Zetsu literally hypothesized that Itachi had been "severely injured" in a prior battle before fighting Sasuke, so that gives a clear metric on how Itachi was affected: Sick Itachi = Severely Injured Healthy Itachi, according to Zetsu.

As to whether a terminal illness like cancer that as Obito stated had "eaten away Itachi's body"  (or severe battle injury) only amounts to a half tier in stamina is up to individual interpretation, likely based on how much of an Itachi fan you are. The OP is not much of an Itachi fan if that's literally the only thing he grants with everything Zetsu said.

Personally, I've had the flu. Not a disease that ate up my body and was about to kill me. And I can tell you that my stamina, hand-to-hand proficiency, strength, speed, and everything else physical takes more than a 0.5 tier hit. People assume Hiruzen had 5/5 maxed out across the board and I personally agree with it. But being old ≠ about to die from disease or severe battle injury.

To me, "Healthy Itachi" is basically similar to "Prime Hiruzen," and was when Itachi was 16-19 before his disease began reaching its final stages (and his eyesight was at its worse.) He basically had 5/5 in everything, maybe with slightly lower stamina and strength, but I don't exactly see him being inferior to Asuma (4.5 in each) or Zabuza (4.0 in each.) Itachi trained extremely hard.

Edo Itachi's feats IMO show this kind of across-the-board excellence in base abilities and physicality.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Trojan (Feb 12, 2017)

Part 1 itachi.

There won't be much of a difference really. Itachi's suffering was mainly because of the Susanoo and its effect on the body. His alleged illness barely, if at all, played any role. Frankly, to me, it's like Kishi just threw it there at the last moment just to make his story look more tragic. It's kinda like when he said itachi killed his girlfriend, and then when he was asked about it, he did not even know that such a thing happened.

Or when he threw out there how obito is an orphan just like Naruto for the sake of parallels. Only when Obito was about to get defeated. Even tho it really did not have any impact or relevance at all. 


I guess you could go further to say, healthy itachi is the regular itachi. Where ill itachi, is the one who literally just died.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 2 | Dislike 1


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## ARGUS (Feb 12, 2017)

Itachi without his illness would be healthy Itachi. Somewhere around part 1s timeline 

He'll have the same full power as sick and Edo itachi but the latter form is still by far his strongest


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 12, 2017)

professor83 said:


> Healthy itachi= Fanfic Itachi
> 
> Its like konan with prep



 But Konan w/ prep isn't fanfic, we literally saw this in the manga.


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## Dr. White (Feb 12, 2017)

ARGUS said:


> Itachi without his illness would be healthy Itachi. Somewhere around part 1s timeline
> 
> He'll have the same full power as sick and Edo itachi but the latter form is still by far his strongest


pretty much


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## Bonly (Feb 12, 2017)

Zetsu 

"I know Itachi is stronger then this

He should've been able to avoid those attacks

Itachi may have been harboring some serious damage beforehand"

A healthy Itachi would've been faster then what we saw and in general he would've been stronger in prolly most(if not all) areas so I usually assume such.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 12, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> But Konan w/ prep isn't fanfic, we literally saw this in the manga.


No ,it only happens in the battle dome if its mentioned or is in a specific location

Like you dont consider DMS obito if  Ms obito in mentioned

Healthy itachi is no where seen
We have pt1 itachi
Sasuke fight Itachi
Edo Itachi

Healthy itachi is 13 years old itachi who just awakened ms

Reactions: Like 1


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

Fanfictional Itachi.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Rai (Feb 13, 2017)

Faster, more stamina/chakra and without ilness.


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## theRonin (Feb 13, 2017)

Edo Itachi with mortality.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Serene Grace (Feb 13, 2017)

An Itachi that won't be coughing blood after using MS techs. Though healthy Itachi never really existed.


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## Dano (Feb 13, 2017)

I always thought since he's a "genius" he'd have more stamina and perfect chakra control in his techniques aside from side effects don't slow him down as much (as Zetsu claimed). I do however believe stamina/chakra level is not a matter if you are a genius or not. People were born with vast stamina/chakra and not being genius, like Uzumakis or Kisame. You can work up your stamina and also your chakra but up to certain level. I do think however Sasuke has more stamina/chakra level than even healthy Itachi, but he's not perfected unless you take into consideration Adult Sasuke. Sasuke having more stamina and special chakra can be considered since he's as Madara, who was considered as such, aside from Indra BS and if you consider several claims of various characters in which they say Sasuke's eyes are "stronger", that could indicate his chakra level about this whole stupid chakra brain, curse of hatred stuff.


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## Trojan (Feb 13, 2017)

The Death & The Strawberry said:


> An Itachi that won't be coughing blood after using MS techs. Though healthy Itachi never really existed.


coughing blood is because of his Susanoo.
here there is a blood coming out of Sasuke's mouth
here

here 2.
here

And here
here

I guess there is also a sick and healthy Sasuke.


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## Sapherosth (Feb 13, 2017)

Healthy Itachi:


1. Faster/stronger physically (No disease)
2. Faster reflexes (no blurred vision)
3. More stamina (No disease)
4. Less drawbacks from using MS

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Turrin (Feb 13, 2017)

Hard to say because the line between illness effecting Itachi and Mangekyo-Sharingan effecting Itachi is pretty blurred. For example Zetsu talks about Itachi's inability to dodge some of Sasuke's attacks and that may be due to illness, but in the moment we see Itachi's inability to dodge those attacks was actually due to blindness. Itachi coughing blood after Amaterasu could also be illness related, but we saw Sasuke cough blood after spamming Mangekyo too, so it's unclear. It's not even clear whether illness is even separate from Mangekyo, or if Mangekyo itself has caused Itachi's illness in the first place.

Anyway, I simply take the comments about illness and later Itachi jobbing to loose to Sasuke on purpose, simply to be Kishimoto telling us Itachi would normally perform better then this, which I think we can all agree is the case.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Dano (Feb 13, 2017)

I agree with above. Itachi's disease is a very weird one, the effects are just maximized effects of what would have happened when you use MS techniques. Coughing blood, trouble with breathing, every inch of your body aching (after Susanoo). No wonder he died because of it. We all know it was aids. It even fits. Maybe he was better at first cause he was drugged with medicine(pain killers, etc) as it was implied but the moment he entered the battle it exponentially got worse (that's why i think Itachi's bukijutsu inititally is so much faster than what his latter reactions showed), and the drawbacks of MS were exponentially worse to even cause his death.


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## uchihakil (Feb 13, 2017)

As others said, basically living edo itachi. And now that i think bout it, itachi is really something else due to the way he fought and outlasted hebi sasuke while terminally ill and having a piss poor vision that he could'nt even see sasuke clearly who was some few meters away from him. Itachi is truly something else tbh


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> As others said, basically living edo itachi. And now that i think bout it, itachi is really something else due to the way he fought and outlasted hebi sasuke while terminally ill and having a piss poor vision that he could'nt even see sasuke clearly who was some few meters away from him. Itachi is truly something else tbh


Not sure how is defeating Hebi Sasuke something that great 
His best feats are defeating a half dead Oro , and getting his ass smoked by Deidara .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

Itachi's best solo feat in his whole life is defeating Edo-less Orochimaru , so i'm not understanding the wank exactly 
He's still a scrub compared to guys like Tobirama , Minato , and Nagato , whom are tier below top tiers


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## uchihakil (Feb 13, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Not sure how is defeating Hebi Sasuke something that great
> His best feats are defeating a half dead Oro , and getting his ass smoked by Deidara .




Just think bout it man, he was TERMINALLY ILL, not only was he terminally ill, his vision was worse than mine, dude could'nt even see clearly, tell me how that  is'nt impressive. Get a terminally ill patient to punch you and then you'll really grasp what being terminally ill means (assuming he/she can even stand) you prolly dont get the gravity of the word 'terminally'


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## uchihakil (Feb 13, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Itachi's best solo feat in his whole life is defeating Edo-less Orochimaru , so i'm not understanding the wank exactly
> He's still a scrub compared to guys like Tobirama , Minato , and Nagato , whom are tier below top tiers



keep hating, itachi is a scrub he says, itachi only soloed edoless oro lmfao, well whatever you say doc

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> Just think bout it man, he was TERMINALLY ILL, not only was he terminally ill, his vision was worse than mine, dude could'nt even see clearly, tell me how that  is'nt impressive. Get a terminally ill patient to punch you and then you'll really grasp what being terminally ill means (assuming he/she can even stand) you prolly dont get the gravity of the word 'terminally'


Stop putting too much weight on his illness , that didn't play much role in that fight , he used Susanoo , Amaterasu , Tsukuyomi , fire ball , and whatnot , his vision was bad because he overused the MS , just like all other MS users who weren't blessed with Hashirama's DNA , so what makes him an exception ? nothing .
The only difference is that he had nothing to lose in his battle with Sasuke , and thus he used everything he has .
What was the result ? oh yes , he died .


uchihakil said:


> keep hating, itachi is a scrub he says, itachi only soloed edoless oro lmfao, well whatever you say doc


I don't hate , i just don't overwanked .
And yes , his best feat is defeating an Edo-less Oro , or did he defeated someone else that i didn't know about ?
When the guy have a hype or feats close to the guys i talked about , maybe then we can talk .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> i dont even wanna talk bout hype cuz hype wise he beats anyone, cuz i can just bring up itachi is invincible, or alot of the other hype itachi was given like


- Invincible
- Dies minutes later 


uchihakil said:


> - DSM kabuto saying he's his best edo and that he can read peoples soul and what not


BS .
Edo Madara would molest Itachi 


uchihakil said:


> - EMS sasuke saying itachi is perfect


Itachi himself disagrees with this BS 



uchihakil said:


> - hashi saying he's better than him


Clearly not talking about power lvl , cuz we all know Hashirama's would kick his ass w/o even using his arms 


uchihakil said:


> - danzou saying itachi's genjutsu is world apart from sasuke's


So ? 


uchihakil said:


> - BZ saying rinnegan sasuke is not as smart as itachi


The same BZ who said Itachi was *denser* than Obito ? 


uchihakil said:


> - hiruzen saying he has the wisdom of a kage at age fucking 7


And this is the guy who failed in everything he did his whole life by his own admission 
So much for the kage lvl wsidome 


uchihakil said:


> - HQ (Ao and shikaku) complimenting his genjutsu


That's not a big deal tho 


uchihakil said:


> - obito saying even in death itachi was dangerous or something like that


Yet the dude worked for the Akatsuki for years and did jack shit 
He couldn't even stop Kakuzu and Hidan when they were heading at Konohagakure .
We all know that if Itachi opened his mouth , Obito would make Pain rape him 


uchihakil said:


> not even fucking hagoromo or madara or hashirama


The delusion my God 
* So6p has the hype of Shinobi no Kami , savior of this world , people believed his power was a mith >>>  Itachi's hype .
* Madara said Hashirama was the only one who could stop him , Kabuto said his power was thought to be a fairy tail , Shinobi no Kami , and all that , that already puts his hype far above Itachi's hype 
* Minato's hype of course speaks for itself 
"I believe that only you [Naruto] can surpass the Fourth Hokage.
~ Kakashi, The Legendary Copy Ninja of the Leaf

"There was never a man that could surpass him [Fourth Hokage] "
~ The Legendary Raikage, fastest man in the world.

"That unrivalled strength [Minato], that carefree smile.."
~ Masashi Kishimoto, Creator of Naruto

Aw come on, everybody pales in comparison to the fourth lord. As a shinobi his capacity was unparalleled, a true one-of-a kind.
~Jiraiya, the Legendary Sannin

"You deserve the title of Fourth Hokage..Managing to wound me and wrest the fox from my control in one move"
~ Tobi, The Final Villain

" I am proud of the unity of Iwagakure , although , we are proud we sent 1000 shinobi from our men , i hear that it took only one man from the hidden leaf , the yellow flash , to stop the invasion "
Onoki , The third Tsuchikage .

Minato had the sort of talent you only find once in a decade. We haven't had another genius like him since.
Jiraiya to Tsunade. Two of the Greatest Ninja of All Time

* Naruto has the hype of being the savior of this world , the child of prophecy , the new Rikudo Sennin , the one who will unite the Bijuu and the world , the strongest Shinobi in the world ....etc etc

All of this is a legit substantiated hype , not vague , empty , hype that takes a simple looking at the manga to know that it's straight out BS

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dr. White (Feb 13, 2017)

professor83 said:


> No ,it only happens in the battle dome if its mentioned or is in a specific location
> 
> Like you dont consider DMS obito if  Ms obito in mentioned
> 
> ...


False,in pt. 1 Itachi used multiple base techniques including a tax worthy clone and the bomb jutsu to explode that chakra. Only after 3 MS uses he began to "complain" about his stamina. That is much healthier than the Itachi who used some genjutsu, 1 Tsukuyomi, and a few base jutsu and was almost going blind/keeling over heeving up blood even before they took the fight up to the roof.

Not only does Zetsu comment multiple times on Itachi's condition in comparison to what he saw previously (gonna assume he isn't talking bout 13 year old Itachi) in Itachi. Like did you miss this panel?


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## uchihakil (Feb 13, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> - Invincible
> - Dies minutes later
> 
> BS .
> ...



> he says itachi does'nt is'nt hyped like the shinobies names he called
> i give him the hypes
> he says bullshit

Well maayi, stop quoting me dude


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

uchihakil said:


> maayi


This words sounds familiar 


uchihakil said:


> stop quoting me dude


Whatever make you happy pal


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## Sapherosth (Feb 13, 2017)

Do you see any MS side effects causing this?







Fuck outta here.


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## Sapherosth (Feb 13, 2017)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ryuzaki (Feb 13, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Do you see any MS side effects causing this?
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck outta here.


Isn't that just a side effect of Susano'o?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sapherosth (Feb 13, 2017)

Ryuzaki said:


> Isn't that just a side effect of Susano'o?




Show me Sasuke grasping for his chest like that after Susano.


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## Android (Feb 13, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Show me Sasuke grasping for his chest like that after Susano.


Lmfao 
Sasuke was feeling pain in *every single fucking cell in his body* when using Susanoo .
Fuck outta here .

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Eliyua23 (Feb 13, 2017)

The only time we actually saw Itachi fighting aggressively with MS was in the war as an Edo Tensei and looking at Sasuke a healthy Uchiha would tell us no way would Itachi comfortably spam MS like he did and be able to keep going forward in consecutive fights as we saw how much it took a toll on Sasuke , but I'm not sure how Kishi would really feel about that if he wanted Itachi depicted in a certain manner , as people take healthy , sick , etc too literally it's nothing but a plot device to control the narrative , when he wants Itachi to dwarf Hebi Sauce then his illness will be overstated if he wants Itachi to fight with elites he would ignore those drawbacks anyways , same with speed it's inconsistent those things have no barring all we know for certain is Itachi wasn't fighting at maximum level against Sasuke but in the war he was performing at an elite level and never once mentioned Edo Tensei as the reasoning for being even Kabuto an enemy he was facing would've stated Itachi was performing up to par due to his Edo Tensei body no it was a highlight moment for Itachi , common sense don't be pigeoner hole into the linear of thinking of healthy vs ill , just understand that Itachi is a high Kage ninja who is revered in the story even beyond feats databook , charcters , story tell us that


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Feb 13, 2017)

To the usual suspects: healthy Itachi is above a Momoshiki whose eaten the chakra fruit and absorbed Kinshiki. 

Now canonically what is a healthy Itachi? Exactly what Zetsu described. One who'd perform just like he did against Sasuke, except he'd not be coughing blood and he'd be fast enough to easily dodge things like Sasuke's shuriken trap.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 13, 2017)

A healthy itachi is the same as a healthy peak physical conditioned athlete. capable of running 27+ miles without issues more if they want.

Sick itachi is the same as a person with stage 4 non-small cell lung cancer, he showed the same symptoms chest pain, fatigue and coughing up large amounts of blood.

The difference is as drastic as it could possibly be one is at their best the other is dying. Itachi would be many, many times greater as any person would be if they didn't have stage 4 lung cancer


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 13, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Lmfao
> Sasuke was feeling pain in *every single fucking cell in his body* when using Susanoo .
> Fuck outta here .



he said it feels that way like how you can feel you're on fire when you're not or how sasori feels art is eternal beauty. It was just a feeling and feelings aren't real but irrational thoughts


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## Infernal Imp (Feb 13, 2017)

An Itachi who's not sporadically coughing up blood from ninja AIDS, losing stamina from just standing around, and isn't 75% blind.


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## Ryuzaki (Feb 13, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Show me Sasuke grasping for his chest like that after Susano.


Sasuke described that side effects of Susano'o were body pain, for Itachi it was likely worse due to his illness.


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## Baroxio (Feb 14, 2017)

Itachi's best physical feats were when he was an Edo Tensei. In this form, we can say he was theoretically "Healthy Itachi." Physically, that is. However, we also know from Edo Madara and the 2nd Hokage that Edo Tensei are always brought back physically weaker than they were in life, even if it's just by a bit. As such, an alive version of "Healthy Itachi" should logically be a smidge stronger and faster than what his Edo Tensei version showed us. I'd say no more than a 5 -10% increase in physicals, though.

The downside, however, is that sickness or no sickness, Itachi has never been known for his stamina. He was able to outlast Hebi Sasuke with Curse Seal, true, but this is more attributed to his phenomenal chakra control and mastery of the basics. Without his sickness, I'd say that using and maintaining such draining Magenkyou techniques should come easier, but he'd still have a hard cap on his chakra. So I'd say something of a 25 - 50% increase in chakra over what he showed as Sick Itachi (which is actually the most he's ever spammed MS, Edo time included) seems appropriate.


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 14, 2017)

Dr. White said:


> Not only does Zetsu comment multiple times on Itachi's condition in comparison to what he saw previously (gonna assume he isn't talking bout 13 year old Itachi) in Itachi. Like did you miss this panel?


That was the peak of his illness in most likelihood
Once the mangekyou activates it leads  to darkness. 
The person would be called healthy just when the mangekyou activates unless you have hashis juice.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 14, 2017)

Turrin said:


> Hard to say because the line between illness effecting Itachi and Mangekyo-Sharingan effecting Itachi is pretty blurred. For example Zetsu talks about Itachi's inability to dodge some of Sasuke's attacks and that may be due to illness, but in the moment we see* Itachi's inability to dodge those attacks was actually due to blindness*. Itachi coughing blood after Amaterasu could also be illness related, but we saw Sasuke cough blood after spamming Mangekyo too, so it's unclear. It's not even clear whether illness is even separate from Mangekyo, or if Mangekyo itself has caused Itachi's illness in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, I simply take the comments about illness and later Itachi jobbing to loose to Sasuke on purpose, simply to be Kishimoto telling us Itachi would normally perform better then this, which I think we can all agree is the case.



 Zetsu took this into account and still believed there was more to it.


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## Android (Feb 14, 2017)

Lord Aizen said:


> he said it feels that way like how you can feel you're on fire when you're not or how sasori feels art is eternal beauty. It was just a feeling and feelings aren't real but irrational thoughts


What ???


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 14, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> What ???


whats there to be confused about. Sasuke said he felt a certain way doesn't make it true. orochimaru feels he's immortal when he's not its the same thing. if every cell in his body was actually in pain he'd be dead


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## Dano (Feb 14, 2017)

A healthy Itachi would still cough blood with MS (as Sasuke). A healthy Itachi would still have trouble breathing (as Sasuke) and having every inch of his body aching after using Susanoo (as Sasuke). Coughing blood normally obeys to your lungs failing and being filled with blood. However Itachi would not vomit as much blood since it obeys not only lungs filled with blood but also stomach filled by such. So it's evidence it's not only lungs but other organs failing. Aside from damaging the lungs to the point of coughing blood and having severe physical pain afterwards, MS Itachi would have had better stamina, and speed (at least consistently better).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Feb 14, 2017)

Lord Aizen said:


> whats there to be confused about. Sasuke said he felt a certain way doesn't make it true. orochimaru feels he's immortal when he's not its the same thing. if every cell in his body was actually in pain he'd be dead


And you've based this on what exactly ? the real life ? 
Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra around the user's body , the chakra is released from the Tenketsu points . If he says he's feeling pain in every single cell , then that means he feels pain in all parts of his body to a high degree, and this is a guy who has a creazy tolerance for pain (Sasuke)


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## Lord Aizen (Feb 15, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> And you've based this on what exactly ? the real life ?
> Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra around the user's body , the chakra is released from the Tenketsu points . If he says he's feeling pain in every single cell , then that means he feels pain in all parts of his body to a high degree, and this is a guy who has a creazy tolerance for pain (Sasuke)


 im basing it on how characters exaggerate what's going on like Black zetsu saying itachis invincible, madara saying his susanoo is destruction incarnate. Yea he was feeling pain all over but not in every cell of his body


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## Ishmael (Feb 21, 2017)

Just truly how strong was he?? 
More powerful then others give him credit for, less powerful then others think or neither??


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## Bonly (Feb 21, 2017)

Zetsu 

"I know Itachi is stronger then this

He should've been able to avoid those attacks

Itachi may have been harboring some serious damage beforehand"

A healthy Itachi would've been faster then what we saw and in general he would've been stronger in prolly most(if not all) areas so I usually assume such. Now whether he's more powerful or not then other gives him credit for, I would say he's usually given fair credit power wise by most people with the Itachi haters usually being the ones to not giving enough cred but that's to be expected of those haters so yeah.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## The_Conqueror (Feb 21, 2017)

He may beat Pain Arc Sage Naruto

Looses to most likely War arc Sage nardo

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Suoh (Feb 21, 2017)

The strongest a healthy Itachi can beat are also the strongest manga Itachi could beat except with a somewhat better chance: Tobirama/Minato. The weakest that can beat him changes a little bit since the odds of outlasting are lower. It gets raised to where MS Sasuke/Kage Summit Naruto are the weakest who have a reasonable chance of winning, though i would favor Itachi more often

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Rai (Feb 21, 2017)

Strongest he can beat is Kaguya and beyond.

No one can defeat him.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Sadgoob (Feb 21, 2017)

As Zetsu said plainly: *Sick Itachi = Seriously Injured Healthy Itachi*

He's IMO slightly superior to Tobirama/Minato and slightly inferior to Prime Nagato.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Serene Grace (Feb 21, 2017)

He gets faster, and can use a few more MS techs though that's about it. He still gets raped by people in Nagato's tier, while he gives Minato, Pain and, Tobirama a better fight

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gohara (Feb 21, 2017)

Amongst Normal Ninjas Itachi is second only to Minato, Hashirama, and Prime Sarutobi in my opinion.


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## Jossaff (Feb 22, 2017)

Well, there's no such thing as "healthy" Itachi unless you're referring to kid Itachi, as he was showing sickness symptoms since P1 which I consider his best moment to the start of P2 so I'll refer to this version of him.

Strongest he could probably the third Raikage

Weakest that could defeat him.... Jiraiya, Kisame maybe Pain arc Naruto

Reactions: Like 1


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## White Wolf (Feb 22, 2017)

This is just my speculation, but I think healthy Itachi is stronger than unhealthy Itachi.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Trojan (Feb 22, 2017)

The strongest he MIGHT win against is Jiraiya.

The weakest can defeat him vary depending on the conditions
from Tayuya, Zabuza, Mei, MS Sasuke...etc etc.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## WorldsStrongest (Feb 22, 2017)

Not anything terribly noticeable imo

I consider Healthy itachi to be either a low end or mid level *High kage tier* character

Sick itachi is a respectable mid level to high level *mid kage tier 
*
While healthy, he wouldnt beat anyone terribly more powerful than those he could handle while ill, he gets a modest stamina upgrade and an at best a marginal increase to his base stats... Who does that significantly help against exactly?

MS sasuke/SM naruto during FKS are the weakest who beat him imo

Strongest he could beat would be MAYBE Jman

MS Sasuke/SM Naruto>=SM Jman>=<Itachi

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sapherosth (Mar 1, 2017)

Sick Itachi = "Severely injured Itachi who doesn't move the way he usually does".

Healthy Itachi = The Itachi that Zetsu saw to be much more powerful than Sick Itachi. 




Strongest healthy Itachi beat is Nagato provided they have the same amount of knowledge. If it's no knowledge Itachi wins even easier. Tosuka/Tsukuyomi/Amateratsu are good stuff that can take Nagato out. 



Weakest that beats him is EMS Sasuke mainly due to bad match up. Closest to that is Tobirama

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## Icegaze (Mar 1, 2017)

weakest that beats him 50% of the time. Minato 
weakest that beats him 100% of the time Pain 

strongest he can beat 100% of the time jiraiya 
strongest he can beat 50% of the time minato

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 1, 2017)

Strongest that Itachi beats is Nagato or Kisame, only if these 2 have no knowledge, if they have at least manga knowledge Kisame and Nagato win 10/10 times. 

Weakest that can defeat Itachi is probably BSM Naruto

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Icegaze (Mar 1, 2017)

i do love how BM naruto cant beat itachi. guess itachi can counter Bijuudama spam

he soo powerful i didnt know



maybe its that yata mirror hype. odd cuz blunt sword got hype of being able to by pass yata mirror


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## Eliyua23 (Mar 1, 2017)

Creating these threads and differentiating between sick and healthy is ludacris because Itachi was not ONLY sick but he was purposely trying to lose , while also trying to draw out Orochimaru those are 3 components to why Itachi unde Perform and not intending to win would even be an even greater drawback to his defeat , Itachi wasn't some slouch that was far below his normal level while sick he was still a high tier ninja capable of beating even most Kage level characters , shit do we even know when he was sick but that is irrelevant because it was only a plot device to tell you how strong he was anyways not to say he was much weaker than he was at full strength and then we see with Sasuke using the MS itself it's extremely taxing on the body and leads to blindness so even if he's healthy a prolonged fight can destroy his body and leave him blind which is probably why he avoided the fight with Jiraiya 

As for his level overall as a ninja he could compete with the likes of Nagato,Obito , Minato but they are all stronger than him by potrayal , feats and role within the story 

Nagato and Obito actually lead the atakuski and say what you want Itachi actively did missions and was somewhat at there mercy he's a self involved merc with an unsocial goal no way he follows anyone unless he doesn't have the strength to disobey them we see in the war strength was a huge determining factor on how Itachi made his decision he knew he could deal with the Uchiha and Orochimaru but when it came to Obito he went a round about Way and did his bidding and he even assumed he was Madara so what he saw from Obito was enough to keep him in line for awhile , we see the same behavior from Sasuke he only strikes or went against Orochimaru or his superior when he felt he was stronger and went along with them when he was weaker like Obito 

Minato in fact did defeat Obito now people can say Obito was younger but let's be real Obito didn't show much improvement from what we saw against Minato from what he displayed in pt 2 and Kishimoto probably forget about the age thing anyway that battle was to interpret he was dealing with a powerful enemy Naruto would need special skills to defeat in the future it wasn't portrayed as Minato slapping around some punk kid the big thing there was Kamui and up until r gained a Rinnegan Kamui continued being what kept him a strong shinobi 

All in all Nagato , Obito bossed him around and Minato defeated the guy that bossed him around and also he's a Naruto benchmark and those tend to be stronger than Sasuke benchmarks when compared After all that was said strongest he beats is either MS Sasuke or Tobirama , weakest that beats him is maybe Killer Bee


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## Ishmael (Mar 1, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Strongest that Itachi beats is Nagato or Kisame, only if these 2 have no knowledge, if they have at least manga knowledge Kisame and Nagato win 10/10 times.
> 
> Weakest that can defeat Itachi is probably BSM Naruto




Weakest that beats him is kisame* and even that's a stretch.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 1, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Weakest that beats him is kisame* and even that's a stretch.



Whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## Ishmael (Mar 1, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night.



Same can be said for you and your wild fantasies bud.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Mar 1, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Same can be said for you and your wild fantasies bud.



*golfclap*


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

He shud be able to hardly beat Sage Jiraya, I'd say thats the strongest he can beat. And power-level wise he loses to pain arc naruto (sage and 6-8 tails) Thats the weakest that can beat him.

There are alot of variables here but I can see him beating pain or maybe even minato on a good day, but might lose to kisame on a bad day.

Overall I'd say healthy itachi is kinda equal power to Susano kakashi.


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## Troyse22 (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> Overall I'd say healthy itachi is kinda equal power to EoS kakashi.





Sharinganless fodder Kakashit?

Itachi would neg the kid.


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

La presagio said:


> More powerful then others give him credit for


Fuck No 


La presagio said:


> less powerful then others think or neither??





Troyse22 said:


> Weakest that can defeat Itachi is probably BSM Naruto




Ever crossed your mind to stop for a second and think what the actual fuck people might think when they read stuff like this ?
Let me guess , you never did , did ya ? 


Sapherosth said:


> Strongest healthy Itachi beat is Nagato provided they have the same amount of knowledge. If it's no knowledge Itachi wins even easier. Tosuka/*Tsukuyomi/Amateratsu* are good stuff that can take Nagato out.





Sapherosth said:


> *Weakest that beats him is EMS Sasuke* mainly due to bad match up


And then we have this poster here 


__________________________________

OT : Strongest he might beat is probably Jiraiya .
Weakest that beat him is Pain arc SM Naruto or FKS MS Sasuke .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

Troyse22 said:


> Sharinganless fodder Kakashit?
> 
> Itachi would neg the kid.



lol meant Susano Kakashi. gna edit the post 
itachi might still be stronger tho idk


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

DMS Kakashi = Itachi ? 
The hell am i reading here ?  


Gohara said:


> Amongst Normal Ninjas Itachi is second only to Minato, Hashirama, and Prime Sarutobi in my opinion.


And EMS Madara , EMS Sasuke , BM / BSM Nauto , Nagato , Obito , Pain , Kabuto .... etc

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> lol meant Susano Kakashi. gna edit the post
> itachi might still be stronger tho idk




Wtf, Itachi can't beat PS Kakashi.


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## Zexion~ (Mar 1, 2017)

He's top 15 in the tiers probably maybe top 13


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Strongest he defeats is MS Obito, MS Sasuke, KCM/SM Naruto, and Minato.

Weakest that defeats him is Minato, Tobirama, Pain and DSM Kabuto.

Weakest he defeats is Kisame and Jiraiya.

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 1, 2017)

What am i reading right now...


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> Wtf, Itachi can't beat PS Kakashi.


we're talking about healthy itachi in his prime. He might have a shot at beating kakashi.


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## Ishmael (Mar 1, 2017)

WorldsStrongest said:


> What am i reading right now...




Pure bullshit my friend pure bullshit I'm going blind in my left eye from it.


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> we're talking about healthy itachi in his prime. He might have a shot at beating kakashi.


Kakashi swings his PS sword = Itachi getting felled .


La presagio said:


> Pure bullshit my friend pure bullshit I'm going blind in my left eye from it.


Ahahahahahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahah .


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> Kakashi swings his PS sword = Itachi getting felled .




How do you even know that healthy itachi's susano is weaker than kakashi's? 
During itachi vs sasuke, itachi susano got some nerfs from the sickness. Itachi also has amaterasu and better genjutsus that kakashi cant rly pull off, but kakashi has more ninjutsu to get going. I can see them kill each others if they fought tbh.


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> How do you even know that healthy itachi's susano is weaker than kakashi's?
> During itachi vs sasuke, itachi susano got some nerfs from the sickness. Itachi also has amaterasu and better genjutsus that kakashi cant rly pull off, but kakashi has more ninjutsu to get going. I can see them kill each others if they fought tbh.


Cuz this




Annnnd here is itachis...



Kakashi takes one wrong (or right) step and he kills itachi by accident...


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> How do you even know that healthy itachi's susano is weaker than kakashi's?
> During itachi vs sasuke, itachi susano got some nerfs from the sickness. Itachi also has amaterasu and better genjutsus that kakashi cant rly pull off, but kakashi has more ninjutsu to get going. I can see them kill each others if they fought tbh.


Lol .
The closest thing we got from healthy Itachi was Edo Tensei Itachi , still the same old susanoo , him being healthy isn't gonna give him Perfect Susanoo , let alone a six paths sage chakra enhanced one .
Amaterasu is garbage to DMS Kakashi , can't counter long ranged Kamui , can't protect himself from PS , and in CQC he gets omglolwtfspeedblitzed with a Kamui Raikiri . Kakashi's PS plays a kick ball with Itachi's regular susanoo then one eradicates it .


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

Well maybe six path kakashi is a bit far but tbh I don't think cuz his susano is larger its really stronger. Itachi has much better mastery over susano.


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## Complete_Ownage (Mar 1, 2017)

Weakest that defeat him: Minato & Tobirama - Consider all three in the same "tier" but with Minato & Tobirama being stronger

Strongest he beats: Jiraiya, onoki

Shinobi that would obviously be weaker then Itachi in general but could go either way in my opinion:
Mu
Genjutsu

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> Well maybe six path kakashi is a bit far but tbh I don't think cuz his susano is larger its really stronger. Itachi has much better mastery over susano.


But ................

He's still gonna get killed badly .


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## Ekkologix (Mar 1, 2017)

GuidingThunder said:


> But ................
> 
> He's still gonna get killed badly .



Why wouldnt that be stopped by yata mirror or atleast block most of it? Then there is always izanami and itachi's susano sword of totsuka which is pretty haxed. It's just unfortunate that itachi used his susano way earlier in the series thats why its kind of downplayed. Juts like sasori. Anything that comes earlier is generally classified weaker by us.

We just didnt get to see much from itachi back then but his susano has alot more potential than kakashis imo. If we were to see itachi reach his healthy prime I would atleast put him equal to susano kakashi. Possibly excluding six paths power cuz thats a huge boost to basic stats.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 1, 2017)

La presagio said:


> Just truly how strong was he??
> More powerful then others give him credit for, less powerful then others think or neither??


 He is much weaker than how people view him, the comments on this thread are yet another example. The strongest he can beat is Jiraiya, while the weakest that beats him is A. Edo Tensei Itachi is an example of what healthy Itachi would've been, he would've had much greater physical prowess and chakra reserves but that's it. But he'd still only have an MS, so he wouldn't leap a tier or anything nor would it heavily impact the outcome of most of his battles.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Parallaxis (Mar 1, 2017)

Hussain said:


> Tayuya, Zabuza, Mei,


Lmfao, I don't know how somebody can say Itachi is NOT underrated even after this statement.
Not sure if this is a serious post unless you want to clarify exactly what conditions there are.

Itachi only got caught in Tayuya's genjutsu because it was SM enhanced. If you think Itachi can't resist and break out of a genjutsu Chunin Shikamaru was resisting I don't know what to say.


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## Ishmael (Mar 1, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Lmfao, I don't know how somebody can say Itachi is NOT underrated even after this statement.
> Not sure if this is a serious post unless you want to clarify exactly what conditions there are.
> 
> Itachi only got caught in Tayuya's genjutsu because it was SM enhanced. If you think Itachi can't resist and break out of a genjutsu Chunin Shikamaru was resisting I don't know what to say.



Itachi isn't underrated if anything in these forums he's rated fairly by those who are serious or overrated by his still alive and roaming fan boys


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> He is much weaker than how people view him, the comments on this thread are yet another example. The strongest he can beat is Jiraiya, *while the weakest that beats him is A*. Edo Tensei Itachi is an example of what healthy Itachi would've been, he would've had much greater physical prowess and chakra reserves but that's it. But he'd still only have an MS, so he wouldn't leap a tier or anything nor would it heavily impact the outcome of most of his battles.



How would a substantial improvement in both speed and chakra reserves not correlate with a substantial improvement overall when Susano'o and the Sharingan in general are contingent upon the user's chakra and reactions? What you're arguing makes no sense.

Raikage would also never defeat Itachi. MS Sasuke nearly defeated him and forced him to recuperate while Gaara fought his battle for him. He's strong, but not that strong.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 1, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> How would a substantial improvement in both speed and chakra reserves not correlate with a substantial improvement overall when Susano'o and the Sharingan in general are contingent upon the user's chakra and reactions? What you're arguing makes no sense.


 I'm basing this off of what we saw Edo Itachi do, and his physical prowess feats weren't anything impressive or notable in the War Arc. Not to mention he had a pseudo-EMS, something he still wouldn't have if he was healthy.



> Raikage would also never defeat Itachi. MS Sasuke nearly defeated him and forced him to recuperate while Gaara fought his battle for him. He's strong, but not that strong.


It depends on what both A and Itachi decide to do, MS Sasuke didn't nearly defeat him. A was about to kill Sasuke until Gaara intervened at the cost of an arm and leg, due to Kagutsuchi, something Itachi does not have. If A goes V2 then Itachi has no choice to immediately use Susanoo to not die, and at that point none of his attacks are touching A so A will outlast. But if A just goes V1 and bumrushes Itachi, then Itachi can for example use a Karasu Bunshin to evade and place A in Genjutsu: Sharingan to stall him, and then use Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Sword of Totsuka to end him.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sapherosth (Mar 1, 2017)

Edo tensei doesn't prevent Itachi's blindness from MS. 

The only thing edo tensei gave Itachi was stamina but he drops in everything else.


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## Android (Mar 1, 2017)

Go D. Usopp said:


> y wouldnt that be stopped by yata mirror or atleast block most of it?


because it lacks the feats to do so .


Go D. Usopp said:


> Then there is always izanami


I assuming you don't know how Izanami works ? cuz it's useless against people like Kakashi , someone who never wanted to be other than himself .


Go D. Usopp said:


> and itachi's susano sword of totsuka which is pretty haxed


Kakashi's PS has a mile long sword , totsuka isn't doing shit , add that to the fact the Totsuka seals people/sould , Susanoo isn't a living thing .


Go D. Usopp said:


> It's just unfortunate that itachi used his susano way earlier in the series thats why its kind of downplayed. Juts like sasori. Anything that comes earlier is generally classified weaker by us.


No , all Perfect Susanoo users showed the same level of susanoo as Itachi , difference is , their susanoo evolved , Itachi's didn't .

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Santoryu (Mar 1, 2017)

The strongest he could beat is probably war arc Kakashi or Might Gai (8th gate restricted). Tobirama too.

The weakest that beat him are probably the same as above. 

None of the Sannin or the gokage can defeat a Sharingan wielder that has a polished mastery of the ninja-arts, sage-like wisdom, and the deadly MS powers at his disposal. Conversely, Nagato and Minato are a bit better than Itachi I think.

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 2


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Santoryu said:


> The strongest he could beat is probably war arc Kakashi or Might Gai (8th gate restricted). Tobirama too.
> 
> The weakest that beat him are probably the same as above.
> 
> *None of the Sannin or the gokage* can defeat a Sharingan wielder that has a polished mastery of the ninja-arts, sage-like wisdom, and the deadly MS powers at his disposal. Conversely, Nagato and Minato are a bit better than Itachi I think.



Good, all that I needed to hear. Don't give a shit that you worship Kakashi as long as you're putting respek on Itachi's name in the process.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> I'm basing this off of what we saw Edo Itachi do, and his physical prowess feats weren't anything impressive or notable in the War Arc. Not to mention he had a pseudo-EMS, something he still wouldn't have if he was healthy.



Portrayal >> Subjective View of Feats. You really shouldn't contradict yourself in dire situations.



> It depends on what both A and Itachi decide to do, MS Sasuke didn't nearly defeat him. A was about to kill Sasuke until Gaara intervened at the cost of an arm and leg, due to Kagutsuchi, something Itachi does not have. If A goes V2 then Itachi has no choice to immediately use Susanoo to not die, and at that point none of his attacks are touching A so A will outlast. But if A just goes V1 and bumrushes Itachi, then Itachi can for example use a Karasu Bunshin to evade and place A in Genjutsu: Sharingan to stall him, and then use Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi/Sword of Totsuka to end him.



Raikage was about to kill him by plunging into a blazing pit of the most eminent flames in all of humanity? Probably not, at worst, Raikage is mortally wounded while Sasuke halts his kick with a V2 Susano'o. Sasuke emerging as the victor is the most probable outcome when taking into consideration of how uncertain he was in battling MS Sasuke with Gaara in spite of Sasuke's condition being worse than Raikage's.

Enton Kagutsuchi was required for a Novice MS user whose reactions were insufficient in deterring Raikage. This is not the case with Itachi.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Serene Grace (Mar 1, 2017)

Nagato is at least a tier above Itachi and Minato


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## Dano (Mar 1, 2017)

How many healthy Itachi threads *sigh. Where is my Prime Hiruzen neutralizing him?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 1, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Portrayal >> Subjective View of Feats. You really shouldn't contradict yourself in dire situations.


 Except I didn't contradict shit? I know his physical stats would be much better, doesn't change the fact that his physical feats in the War Arc weren't that impressive. He sure as hell didn't climb a tier because of them. 





> Raikage was about to kill him by plunging into a blazing pit of the most eminent flames in all of humanity? Probably not, at worst, Raikage is mortally wounded while Sasuke halts his kick with a V2 Susano'o. Sasuke emerging as the victor is the most probable outcome when taking into consideration of how uncertain he was in battling MS Sasuke with Gaara in spite of Sasuke's condition being worse than Raikage's.


 What are you talking about? A would've lost his leg but Sasuke still would've been crushed to death. Sasuke didn't exhibit the ability to use V2 Susanoo until after having his talk with Gaara and being severely pressured. He was clearly betting on Enton to work instead of V2 Susanoo, all of his attention was focused on that. 



> Enton Kagutsuchi was required for a Novice MS user whose reactions were insufficient in deterring Raikage. This is not the case with Itachi.


Yes it is, no character bar Hashirama, Madara, Minato, Tobirama, KCM Naruto and God Tiers have the reflexes to deal with V2 A's Shunshin. Do not delude yourself, Itachi isn't tagging nor is he physically reacting to V2 A whatsoever unless you can prove otherwise. Period.

Reactions: Like 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Except I didn't contradict shit? I know his physical stats would be much better, doesn't change the fact that his physical feats in the War Arc weren't that impressive. *He sure as hell didn't climb a tier because of them*.



 Kishimoto disagrees. Portrayal >> Subjective Interpretation of Feats. 



> What are you talking about? A would've lost his leg but Sasuke still would've been crushed to death. Sasuke didn't exhibit the ability to use V2 Susanoo until after having his talk with Gaara and being severely pressured. He was clearly betting on Enton to work instead of V2 Susanoo, all of his attention was focused on that.



 Very doubtful. The flames would've skewered him if he continued to ram into the pit of spikes audaciously; this is common sense. At best, Raikage would escape with his leg dismembered. Realistically, his leg gets lopped off and he shares the same fate since his entire body would be plunged into those blazing pillars.

 Nope, he wasn't daunted by the Kage's combination attack: Portrayal >> Subjective View of Feats

 He was simply unraveling abilities when he needed them the most. Context suggests it, there's no point in exhausting himself even further by using V2 Susano'o imprudently if he was conserving his energy specifically for Danzo. Are we now going to assume that Sasuke's debut of Susano'o was a mere reflex as well? Hardly.



> Yes it is, no character bar Hashirama, Madara, Minato, Tobirama, KCM Naruto and God Tiers have the reflexes to deal with V2 A's Shunshin. Do not delude yourself, Itachi isn't tagging nor is he physically reacting to V2 A whatsoever unless you can prove otherwise. Period.



 What're you babbling about? Susano'o is a mental reaction, his physical reactions do not have to keep up as long as he can track him, something that was instrumental in Minato's survival against Raikage. And it can considering EMS Sasuke's Susano'o had reacted to a situation far better than KCM Minato could.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 1, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Kishimoto disagrees. Portrayal >> Subjective Interpretation of Feats.


 Well now you're making up shit, Kishimoto never said that. Zetsu stating that Itachi should've been stronger and able to dodge some attacks doesn't mean he'd be on a whole other level at his strongest. What we both define as tiers is clearly different, they must be much smaller in your opinion.





> Very doubtful. The flames would've skewered him if he continued to ram into the pit of spikes audaciously; this is common sense. At best, Raikage would escape with his leg dismembered. Realistically, his leg gets lopped off and he shares the same fate since his entire body would be plunged into those blazing pillars.
> 
> Nope, he wasn't daunted by the Kage's combination attack: EMS Sasuke's Susano'o had reacted to a situation far better than KCM Minato could
> 
> He was simply unraveling abilities when he needed them the most. Context suggests it, there's no point in exhausting himself even further by using V2 Susano'o imprudently if he was conserving his energy specifically for Danzo. Are we now going to assume that Sasuke's debut of Susano'o was a mere reflex as well? Hardly.


 Does Sasuke look like he feels he can use V2 if he needs to? Sasuke was clearly betting on Enton working in order to save himself, saying he could easily resort to V2 at the last second when all his attention was focused on Enton is baseless. He didn't have V2 in mind at that time, even if he could use it, and thus that probably would've cost him his life.





> What're you babbling about? Susano'o is a mental reaction, his physical reactions do not have to keep up as long as he can track him, something that was instrumental in Minato's survival against Raikage. And it can considering EMS Sasuke's Susano'o had reacted to a situation far better than KCM Minato could.


 Then what exactly are we arguing here? I already said that Itachi could use Susanoo to defend from V2 A's Shunshin, but that's it. After that what does he do? His Sword of Totsuka aint tagging him, nor is Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi, the latter two of which would likely take a great toll on him to use alongside Susanoo especially after repeated usage.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Lmfao, I don't know how somebody can say Itachi is NOT underrated even after this statement.
> Not sure if this is a serious post unless you want to clarify exactly what conditions there are.
> 
> Itachi only got caught in Tayuya's genjutsu because it was SM enhanced. If you think Itachi can't resist and break out of a genjutsu Chunin Shikamaru was resisting I don't know what to say.



1- Can you please tell me what is itachi going to do if Zabuza used his Mist jutsu, or if Mei used a cambo of Mist & Boil style? 

2- Shikamaru broke out because he used his Shadow to break his finger (I.E by pain). How is itachi going to hurt himself inside of the genjutsu?


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Well now you're making up shit, Kishimoto never said that. Zetsu stating that Itachi should've been stronger and able to dodge some attacks doesn't mean he'd be on a whole other level at his strongest. What we both define as tiers is clearly different, they must be much smaller in your opinion.



Except Kishimoto wrote the statement and conveyed his intentions through Zetsu's words. Zetsu not only stated that Itachi should've been stronger, he automatically presumed that he was gravely wounded prior to the battle's occurrence. This doesn't connote a marginal increase in power, it connotes a significant increase in power in every aspect of combat. Hence why Zetsu had actually mentioned Itachi coughing up blood profusely throughout the battle. Somehow coughing up blood which is a denotation of excruciating exhaustion only results in a marginal decrease in power, this is your logic, not mine.



> Does Sasuke look like he feels he can use V2 if he needs to? *Sasuke was clearly betting on Enton working in order to save himself, saying he could easily resort to V2 at the last second when all his attention was focused on Enton is baseless*. He didn't have V2 in mind at that time, even if he could use it, and thus that probably would've cost him his life.



Common sense, Enton Kagutsuchi acts as an offense and defense and utilizes pre-existing flames to conserve chakra and context would dictate that he wouldn't use V2 Susano'o unless it were absolutely necessary. Not that it would be, the blazing pillar would've dismembered his leg and pierced through his entire body before Raikage even reached Sasuke.

But alas, Karin's noting Sasuke's chakra was colder and filled with malice would hint that you're right, so I will give that to you, but the approach you took wasn't really convincing.



> Then what exactly are we arguing here? I already said that Itachi could use Susanoo to defend from V2 A's Shunshin, but that's it. After that what does he do? His Sword of Totsuka aint tagging him, nor is Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi, the latter two of which would likely take a great toll on him to use alongside Susanoo especially after repeated usage.



It doesn't need to be as fast, techniques such as Izanagi for example serve the same purpose; being able to soak hits and dish them out against speedier opponents. This is explicitly why Danzo prevailed in CQC and Itachi's durability and range through Susano'o gives him that luxury.

A Susano'o + Amaterasu combination would definitely tag Raikage since he narrowly escaped Amaterasu on its lonesome, this is common sense.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Gohara (Mar 2, 2017)

@ GuidingThunder.

I agree about 4th Great Ninja World War Arc Sasuke and 4th Great Ninja World War Arc Naruto, but I respectfully disagree with the others unless you're referring to Hashidaragato.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 2, 2017)

UchihaX28 said:


> Except Kishimoto wrote the statement and conveyed his intentions through Zetsu's words. Zetsu not only stated that Itachi should've been stronger, he automatically presumed that he was gravely wounded prior to the battle's occurrence. This doesn't connote a marginal increase in power, it connotes a significant increase in power in every aspect of combat. Hence why Zetsu had actually mentioned Itachi coughing up blood profusely throughout the battle. Somehow coughing up blood which is a denotation of excruciating exhaustion only results in a marginal decrease in power, this is your logic, not mine.


I mean, Itachi was also holding back in that battle so that could've been a contributing factor. If anything, it was a mixture of Itachi being both terminally ill and holding back against Sasuke. But the fact is, Itachi's MS is his bread and butter, and his MS won't be effected by his physical statistics being increased. He was also blind due to overusing the MS, which won't change depending on whether he is healthy or not. So I disagree on the notion of Zetsu's statement signifying that Itachi should be on a completely different level because that's not what was implied. 





> Common sense, Enton Kagutsuchi acts as an offense and defense and utilizes pre-existing flames to conserve chakra and context would dictate that he wouldn't use V2 Susano'o unless it were absolutely necessary. Not that it would be, the blazing pillar would've dismembered his leg and pierced through his entire body before Raikage even reached Sasuke.
> 
> But alas, Karin's noting Sasuke's chakra was colder and filled with malice would hint that you're right, so I will give that to you, but the approach you took wasn't really convincing.


  I don't see how it wasn't obvious that that scene was meant to signify that they were both about to be harmed, but it doesn't really matter, since we agree that Sasuke likely would've been crushed as A lost his leg now?





> It doesn't need to be as fast, techniques such as Izanagi for example serve the same purpose; being able to soak hits and dish them out against speedier opponents. This is explicitly why Danzo prevailed in CQC and Itachi's durability and range through Susano'o gives him that luxury.
> 
> *A Susano'o + Amaterasu combination would definitely tag Raikage since he narrowly escaped Amaterasu on its lonesome, this is common sense.*


 A didn't narrowly evade, he evaded it so fast at point-blank range that he left behind an afterimage and then proceeded to completely blitz MS Sasuke who made next to no physical reaction and had to rely on mental reactions to deal with him. Susanoo's attack speed is irrelevant against A, it's not going to pressure him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Android (Mar 2, 2017)

Gohara said:


> @ GuidingThunder.
> 
> I agree about 4th Great Ninja World War Arc Sasuke and 4th Great Ninja World War Arc Naruto, but I respectfully disagree with the others unless you're referring to Hashidaragato.


No , even EMS Madara is far above Itachi , SM Kabuto as well , Pain , all those guys are above Itachi .

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


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## Android (Mar 2, 2017)

@UchihaX28 , you know damn well the guys listed in my post are above Itachi , yet you still felt the need to dislike it .Aight then bud , if that's what you want , then so be it ...

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Gohara (Mar 3, 2017)

Well either way you're free to your opinion. I respectfully disagree with those characters being more powerful than Itachi, but they are insanely powerful, so I have no issue if you disagree.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Android (Mar 3, 2017)

Gohara said:


> Well either way you're free to your opinion. I respectfully disagree with those characters being more powerful than Itachi, but they are insanely powerful, so I have no issue if you disagree.


You are disagreeing , yet you aren't bringing up any evidence for your stance

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Mar 5, 2017)

@ GuidingThunder.

You're the one who initially disagreed, no? If so, I didn't see anything in your post to respond to. You just expressed your disagreement but implied that I should think the same way and I simply reiterated that I respectfully disagree. I'm not trying to change your opinion. Plus, I think that we've already discussed our difference in opinions in those characters' power levels. Since neither of us convinced each other in the previous discussions I don't see much point in discussing it again unless either of us has new points, and since I'm not trying to change your opinion anyways, it seemed redundant to repost what I've already posted in previous discussions. That being said, if you want to change my opinion and you have new points compared to previous discussions, feel free to post it and I'll explain my opinions on them.


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## Matty (Mar 5, 2017)

Ryuzaki said:


> I always added an extra half a tier in stamina to him, but nothing more than that.
> 
> Who is the strongest he can defeat?



When he doesnt have that debilitating illness a la Walter White

Id say strongest he beats is something along the lines of Living Minato but that is highly, highly speculative. Just depends on the spectrum that you stand on


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## pat pat (Mar 5, 2017)

Healthy itachi=Fanfic Itachi.
The healthy itachi you guys are talking about is certainly 13-15 years old itachi.


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## theRonin (Mar 5, 2017)

oMeGa1904 said:


> How many healthy Itachi threads *sigh. Where is my Prime Hiruzen neutralizing him?


 
but now that I'm here, this is what Prime Itachi is to me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Icegaze (Mar 5, 2017)

One who doesn't have overly blurry vision and isn't coughing blood. He doesn't get faster 
Nor can he use More jutsu as his stamina has always been indicated as rather poor 

He wouldn't do any better than his edo version showed 
Basically this heahtly itachi is so much stronger than itachi shown in manga is fanfic


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## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 5, 2017)

If we're gonna stay with Manga... Healthy MS Itachi would be non-MS ıtachi cuz.. We saw at Sasuke's situatio, even a fresh MS user like Sasuke had some troubles about sustaining it for a couple of hours. And MS drained so many chakra then his eyes got almost blind.

So Itachi use his MS 21-14= 7 years ! So Healthy Itachi probably at the age of 15-16 . Cuz after 2 year ı dont think he is gonna stay healthy anymore. His health status starts to gonna deccrease after that point.

But ıf we're talking about assumption.. Like a Healthy MS ıtachi at age of 21 ! Then this will be only an assumption. He could be a little more mighty but thats all..

Cuz Healthy Sasuke had health issues about his MS when MS was so fresh ?! So MS = Unhealthy situation. You always need to keep your guard up against your own dojutsu cuz taxing effects.

So Sick Itachi can fall the same situation with MS Sasuke against Kages pretty more faster than Sasuke.. I think his sickness only effect this much.. But he is also not gonna survive from them w/o help and even with help his eyes got blind too like sauce's. Health or Ill aint matter to MS user we saw it.

So the word of "Healthy" not increase Itachi's status to Pain / Nagato, Minato, Obito, Tobirama, Prime Hiruzen level so suddenly.

Many low kage can be troublesome for Sick Itachi (due to Hebi Sasuke) but they cant be for Healthy one only difference is this IMO. But Health is not gonna make him a Obito / Nagato or even Pain and Tobirama.


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## Parallaxis (Mar 5, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> *Nagato, Minato, Obito*, Tobirama, *Prime Hiruzen*


Joke, right?


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## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 5, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> Joke, right?


Im not saying those guy at same level.. I just put non-gods or non-reincarnation chars that far more powerfull than Itachi. 

And please (for everyone) stop being so sensetive about Prime Hiruzen


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 5, 2017)

Healthy Itachi doesn't exist as we don't know whether he had this illness his entire life or when he developed it.

I know in Part 1 Kisame warned him numerous times in the same day when he used MS.

If 13 year old Itachi is the "Healthy Itachi" people are going with that's a problem, Sick Itachi is considerably stronger being a fully grown adult at 21 with 8 more years of training and experience battling and working with actual kage level shinobi, having rarely done so at age 13 (might have gone on a mission with Shisui or Danzo?)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yagami1211 (Mar 5, 2017)

It's just Itachi.
But with a bit more chakra and he doesn't get tired that easily.

That's all

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Mar 5, 2017)

I truly don't understand how people can say with a straight face healthy Itachi doesn't exist. 


I guess Zetsu must be talking about fanfic Itachi too after seeing the sick Itachi.


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## Parallaxis (Mar 5, 2017)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> Im not saying those guy at same level.. I just put non-gods or non-reincarnation chars that far more powerfull than Itachi.
> 
> And please (for everyone) stop being so sensetive about Prime Hiruzen



A Hiruzen w/more stamina and chakra not just beating Itachi, but being FAR more powerful than him?


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Mar 5, 2017)

I will never forget the endless nights of me debating Itachi in North Dakota when it was -40 out and people kept saying Itachi would win every battle with his invincible onslaught of power yet the one time he used Susanoo he died and in part one he was feeling faint after using MS 3 times in one day let alone a single battle haha!


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## The_Conqueror (Mar 5, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> A Hiruzen w/more stamina and chakra not just beating Itachi, but being FAR more powerful than him?


You know thats correct.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 5, 2017)

Sapherosth said:


> I truly don't understand how people can say with a straight face healthy Itachi doesn't exist.
> 
> 
> I guess Zetsu must be talking about fanfic Itachi too after seeing the sick Itachi.



 Zetsu is an expert of extrapolation.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Mar 5, 2017)

Hey what's up everyone. For those who don't know me I have been away from the forums for a long time and I am very anti Itachi haha. Jiraiya is king after all.

Any way, this thread is about the fighting potential of healthy and sick Itachi. Just not Edo Itachi.

As you probably ascertained the fact that I am bias don't let that stop you from posting your opinion regardless if you think Itachi is noob fodder status or an immortal invincible god. I would love to debate with you whatever you post.

Ok now this is the part where I try to throw the bias out the window and just throw in facts from the show please feel free to correct me.

Part 1 Itachi : Itachi was shown to have uber advanced genjutsu, extremly fast taijutsu and ninjutsu that Kakashi with 3 tomoe could barely keep up with. MS powers, Itachi's high end techniques are very taxing on him and he can not just spam them. Well he could but at the cost of endurance, speed, and a sharp mind. As we were shown in the show just using MS 3 times in one day caused Itachi much distress and fatigue.

Part 2 Itachi: Itachi, although sick with some terminal ninja HIV strain is still very capable of using the MS such as Genjutsu and Amatarasu fighting Sasuke. However his ultimate attack Susanoo ends up killing him. The exact cause of death we will never know. It could be heart failure, an aneurysm, insane pain who knows? We are watching a show with giant talking frogs and fox demons living inside humans. Itachi in both parts of Naruto is very formidable but it begs the question to what extreme?


Many people in the forums have VERY different opinions on where Itachi's maximum fighting potential is scaled. Some people think base Jiraiya can one shot Itachi while others believe he can take on several kage level opponents at the same time while spamming precision targeted amatarasu and susanoo at the same time for prolonged periods of time.

It may seem obvious to some posters and less obvious to others but where do you see Itachi's strength in turns of being "healthy" and "sick"?


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## Troyse22 (Mar 6, 2017)

Healthy vs sick itachi..hmmm.

Healthy Itachi is essentially sick Itachi but with more stamina and better reflexes, that's how I view it anyways.


SM Jiraiya gets no diffed by Itachi, let alone Base Jiraiya


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## Bonly (Mar 6, 2017)

If you're looking for people's opinions on healthy Itachi then  that's still getting posted in so you can check that out.


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Mar 6, 2017)

Bonly said:


> If you're looking for people's opinions on healthy Itachi then  that's still getting posted in so you can check that out.


Aww but I spent like 20 minutes typing my post


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## JiraiyaFlash (Mar 6, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> A Hiruzen w/more stamina and chakra not just beating Itachi, but being FAR more powerful than him?


His portrayal or hype or reputation what do you wanna call ?! Is clearly shows it. Why do you so sensetive about that.. 

Every Tobirama VS Itachi topic is end with the victory of Tobirama and every Minato vs Itachi topic is the same..

Due to both DB and Manga Hiruzen suprass Tobirama in his youth. And his prime look more powerfull than Minato.
And he always consider as the strongest of his era.. Since he is the longest ruler of the Konoha he had so many opponents like; Ônoki, 3rd  Raikage, 4th Raikage, Yagura, Rasa, Sandaime Kazekage, Mei, Hanzo, Danzo..

So suprassing all these dudes ? So yeah he is "far" superior than Itachi when he is at his prime. Even Old Hiruzen with Edo feats can deal with Itachi but its argueable and tough.

So drop your bias to the ground and surrender my friend   Surrender to the Hiruzen's greatness    

Joke besides , portrayal, db and manga clearly pointted this out for us.. So ım out


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## theRonin (Mar 6, 2017)

PhantomSage said:


> A Hiruzen w/more stamina and chakra not just beating Itachi, but being FAR more powerful than him?


Now, now. It's time to move on and accept reality.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ryuzaki (Mar 7, 2017)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Aww but I spent like 20 minutes typing my post


All good, your post is safe, both threads merged to continue the discussion.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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