# How I would do a "Tekken" movie



## MartialHorror (Feb 21, 2011)

Okay, I dont know if this deserves its own thread......but bare with me. Im a huge Tekken fan, but HATED the 2010 movie(which I reviewed, Link removed). I dont get why they felt the need to change things that did not need to be changed. So I was wondering, how difficult could it be? Why dont I do a rough outline of what I would do. 

First off, I would focus more on "Tekken 2". The problem with "Tekken(1)" is that it has no real story and the sequel has more potential for development in both story and character. Two, there will be changes and I'll have to fill in some gaps. Obviously if you aren't familiar with Tekken, you wont have a clue what Im talking about, so read at your own risk.

But tell me what you think. Are some of my changes acceptable? Am I forgetting something? Whatever.

Main Characters: Jun, Kazuya, Lee 

Supporting Characters: Heihachi, Lei, Wang, Nina, Anna 

(everyone else is minor).

It would start by stating how the Mishima Zaibatsu(Corperation), run by Heihachi, had much government control. Feeling he could go no farther, he held a tournament. Whoever can defeat him in hand to hand combat would get everything he owned. In the end, the only one who could challenge him was his son, Kazuya.

It would show Kazuya and Heihachi fighting. Heihachi seems to get the upper hand, but Kazuya appears to transform(off-screen, we see his shadow). The next we see is Heihachi on the ground and (normal) Kazuya standing over him. In an exact replica of the first games ending, he picks up Heihachi and drops him over a cliff.

We then cut to (2 years later) Lee talking to a currently unnamed reporter for exposition sake. Lee explains that the tournament is worldwide, that small tournaments are hosted so that the top fighters can compete in the main event. He also explains that since Kazuya has taken over, luck was on his side and that the Mishima Zaibatsu has practically become more powerful than most Governments. When asked how does fighting reflect running the actual corporation, Lee responds that fighting requires dedication, discipline and a strong spirit, which is what his Father(Heihachi, who adopted him) believed in. 

We then cut to quick clips of everyone fighting nobodies, with Lee being the main focus, all earning their spots in the King of Iron Fist tournament. 

We then meet Jun, who seems to have psychic powers, seeing a vision of an ethereal woman(possibly Angel). We also see that heihachi has survived, eating a small animal(maybe alive?) as he continues to make his way back up the cliff. Every scene with heihachi is storming(which becomes sort of symbolic later on, because I can be pretentious too).

When we finally meet Kazuya, we see he's working on creating a robotic army(the Jacks) with Dr Abel. He's cold and cruel to everyone, pretty much talking shit to Lee whenever we see him. We see Ganryu, Baek(who appears to be insane) and Bruce are his bodyguards. Bruce, a former cop, tells him that there will be an attempt to arrest Kazuya at the tournament. Kazuya shrugs it off.

We then meet Anna, much to Lee's surprise(and possibly chagrin?). Kazuya reveals that Anna has informed him that her sister, Nina, intends to assassinate him at the tournament. 

As the tournament fighters gather for round 1(cue some replica footage of the Tekken 2 opening, where Jun is just seen walking, Paul driving his bike etc), lee continues to talk with the reporter. The main purpose of this conversation is simply Lee saying how everyone has a motive for entering the tournament(Lee says this ominously). We see clips of Law finding his dojo in ruins(because of Baek), Michelle finding her Mother missing, King finding his orphanage in flames(yeah, thats not canon) and Jun acting a bit like a ditzy hippie, somehow figuring something is wrong with Kazuya. 

Oh yeah, the official participants: Jun, Paul, Law, Lee, Ganryu, Michelle, Baek, Anna, Nina, Wang, Yoshimitsu, Kunimitsu, Lei, Bruce, King. Whoever wins fights Kazuya, obviously.

First, they all have to fight countless Gun-Jacks, much to Lee's surprise and anger(he was not told about this). This tells us that Kazuya is up to something sinister. Anyone non-Tekken character is eliminated. The survivors(not that the losers all died...) are sent to participate in Round 1.

Round 1 takes place in a normal ring, possibly televised. All the fights except one are short, but very intense.

1) Ganryu Vs Michelle: Michelle wins. Afterwards, Ganryu professes his love to her which she turns down, thinking him creepy. 

2) Yoshimitsu Vs Kunimitsu: Both use weapons and Lee has to explain that weapons are allowed if both parties give permission. Yoshimitsu wins.

3) Jun Vs King: It's referenced that King placed in 3rd in the previous tournament(losing to Kazuya) and will probably be the winner. However, after a difficult struggle, Jun wins to everyones surprise. Jun continues to act a bit........out there, confusing everyone. King raises her arm, being a graceful winner.

4) Baek Vs Nina: When Nina is first mentioned by Kazuya or Anna, it does cut away to her having just completed an assassination, establishing her as very effective. There will also be a confrontation between Anna and Nina so that there rivalry is more in the open. However, Baek defeats her with ease, shocking Anna more than anyone. Baek severely beats her to where she's rushed to the hospital. It appears when its said and done, Baek looks like he's crying.

5) Lei Vs Bruce: I dount I'll have the 'revenge' aspect here, as it would be too contrived. However, Bruce is on Lei's 'capture' list. Lei wins, but is obviously unable to arrest him at that time.

6) Law Vs Wang: This is the longest fight, ending in a draw(which they say also happened in the first tournament). So both are able to compete in round 2.

7) Lee Vs Anna: Lee wins with ease as Anna still can't get over her sister losing. She probably didnt even see the point in the tournament anymore.

8) Paul, who is left with no one to fight, complains that he wants an actual opponent and challenges Kazuya. Lee explains that in the previous tournament, Paul had a draw with kazuya but got lost when supposed to appear for a rematch and was disqualified. Lee states that Paul's strength is only matched by his bad luck. In response to Paul's challenge, Kazuya states: "Release the bear". We see Paul about to be mauled by Kuma(a grizzly)......but it cuts away to something and when it cuts back, Paul is standing over an unconscious Kuma(its off-screen because the CGI would suck hard).

We then are able to explore the relationships a bit more. Heihachi has escaped the cliff and continues to walk towards the Mishima Zaibatsu. This is symbolized with Kazuya learning that a hurricane is coming. We also learn a bit more about the relationships. Lee trained with Paul and Law once, so is friends with them. Jun meets Kazuya and throughout the movie, Kazuya begins to question himself. Eventually he has a dream sequence where he sees Angel and Devil embodied, both fighting for control over him. 

The Reporter talks to various fighters, asking them about their motives and if they will 'kill' to win. Eventually Round 2 begins and Kazuya learns that Heihachi is alive when Heihachi attacks Yoshimitsu and wins(off-screen). Kazuya responds by sending his most powerful Jack(Jack-2) to fight him. However, Heihachi wins, even when Jack-2 uses firepower. 

At this point, his relationship with Jun seems to be redeeming Kazuya, as he is considering calling off his plans. He even starts befriending Lee again instead of just tolerating him. However, the closer Heihachi gets, the more his hatred seems to get a hold of him. 

Much of the above takes place throughout the movie, not necessarily before Round 2.

Round 2: This round will have them doing something interesting(example; like how the animated movie has them trying to survive in a forest), but I'm not sure what yet. None of the fights are televised and all take place away from the other fighters. 

1) heihachi Vs Jack 2 and Yoshimitsu technically counts: Heihachi defeats both. Heihachi isnt an official contestant, but his attacking Yoshimitsu pretty much makes him one.

2) Jun Vs Lei: It's close, but Jun eventually wins. Lei reveals that he's a cop and Jun reveals she's from the WWWC(Wildlife protection agency), investigating Kazuya's alleged smuggling of exotic animals. It's also revealed that Jun pretty much has put on the ditzy act. She is in fact very determined, bright and wishes to stop Kazuya and save him at the same time. Both Lei and her form a partnership and become friends. 

3) Wang Vs Michelle: Wang wins and Michelle asks him to win so her Mother can be saved. 

3) Baek Vs Law: We learn that Baek accidentally killed his Father and this has driven him mad. They fight and eventually Law wins. Law chooses not to kill Baek and seeing his torment, even forgives him. 

4) Paul Vs Lee: Paul is missing and we learn that he's stuck in traffic. He's disqualified and Lee reiterates that Paul is the unluckiest person on Earth. 

As Jun and Kazuya's relationship develops, Lei investigates and learns of Kazuya's plans. However, he is attacked and left unconscious by Bruce. Meanwhile, we learn that Nina faked her defeat and wasn't injured much at all. Nina sneaks into the zaibatsu carrying no guns or knives(gun-jacks activate automatically when either of those are brought in), but wire. She sneaks up on Kazuya and nearly kills him, but Anna interrupts. After a brutal fight, Anna defeats Nina and Kazuya decides to put her in a cryogenic sleep(because he promised Anna he wouldn't kill her and he needs her alive and incapacitated). Anna has mixed feelings on this but Kazuya seems shaken by the incident and is furious with Lee for having poor security. Kazuya seems to be going down a path of evil at this point.

In fact, Wang and Jun learn that Kazuya sold his soul to the devil when Heihachi threw him off a cliff when he was only a kid. In fact, they learn Heihachi was very abusive in general. They probably learn this from Lee. (This is also why Kazuya has become so successful and defeated Heihachi).

Round 3:

1) Jun Vs Wang: Jun wins and Wang believes Jun is the only one who can stop devil.

We learn that Lee actually hired Nina to kill kazuya, partly out of revenge for his Father(Lee has not been told of Heihachi surviving), partly for his own desire to rule the syndicate.  Kazuya is the one to reveal this and threatens to kill Lee, but instead has him fight Heihachi. Lee is obviously shaken by this revelation. Wang goes to Lee and asks him to fight Heihachi, but Lee intends to side with him. Wang tells Lee that he must distract Heihachi long enough for Jun to defeat 'devil'. Lee reluctantly agrees but...

2) Lee Vs Heihachi: Heihachi crushes Lee easily. 

3) Kazuya Vs Law: Kazuya decides to warm up by fighting Law, ignoring Jun's plees to not give into evil. Kazuya defeats Law after a short but intense fight.

Later on, Jun and some of the fighters are together. We learn (quite tragically) that to keep devil from taking over, Kazuya must give into evil and not fight it(otherwise, it creates a separate personality). Because of Jun's influence, it means less evil, so Devil takes over Kazuya, beats down most of the fighters who gets in his way and even rapes Jun. 

On the rape: It's mostly implied. The reason I did this is I cant imagine Jun sleeping with him after knowing him for no more than a few days(she's supposed to be purity incarnate, after all). It's too "typically Hollywood".

Kazuya, ashamed fully gives into his evil side in order to escape his guilt.  We learn that his "plan" is to corrupt all the fighters, to create other 'devils' out of them because they're strong spirits would make them into powerful demons and that the reporter is actually an incarnation of the devil in disguise(he reveals all of this). All of the fighters were lured there for various reasons. At this point, Kazuya's henchman turn on him but Kazuya defeats them all.  


He prepares to fight Heihachi at a volcano(the hurricane has pretty much arrived). Much to Kazuya's surprise, Jun still begs Kazuya to repent before leaving. The fact that she's still trying to save him moves him, but it will be his downfall. Kazuya still leaves anyway.

Now torn between two sides, Heihachi easily defeats Kazuya. Devil takes over, but Jun's influence weakens his powers and Heihachi defeats him too. He throws Kazuya in the volcano(as his Tekken 2 ending shows). 

Meanwhile, Devil escapes and learning that Jun is pregnant due to the rape, tries to possess her unborn child(Im not sure how long after Kazuya's death this will happen; probably right after Jun finds out she's pregnant weeks later). Devil torments Jun by exploiting her doubt about having an unwanted child(revealing that for a brief second, she considered an abortion). But Jun overcomes Devil, defeating him at last.

We then learn Wang saved Lee and tells him that he's banished from the Zaibatsu. Lee thinks about his comments on martial artists having strong 'spirits'. He wonders if he was wrong, but Wang tells him that they're simply human. They can make mistakes and do bad things, but a strong spirit will make it right.

We then see that Ganryu rescued Michelle's Mother and Bruce released Lei. Anna, who loved her sister more than realized, decides to put herself into cryogenic sleep until Nina wakes up. King, mixing in Armor Kings ending, spits up blood but goes on to entertain Wrestling fans. Baek seems to have finally found peace. Paul and Law are doing a demonstration in Law's dojo(Law's ending) and Jun has decided to raise her son to be a good person. 

(Also, maybe a bit where a little girl(Jane) comes across Jack-2, who re-activates and possibly befriends her)

The last image of is Heihachi, sitting at his desk, once again head of the Mishima sindicate. He is alone, incapable of making anything right.

In terms of atmosphere, I would like everything to be be bright and vivid(not dark and murky like the movie is). However, there is a light horror touch whenever devil is around and of course, Heihachi's sequences would be very atmospheric and haunting. In fact, Heihachi is meant to be more of a 'force' than a real character. He has no inner conflict, development......whatever. His purpose is how people(mainly Kazuya and Lee) respond to him.

Obviously things seem pretty rough right now, but if I actually wrote the script, I think everything would seem more organic. I think.....

If there is any real hole that I know of, it's the 'smuggling of exotic animals' bit. I didnt want Roger or anything like that because they'd be too expensive and the CGI would blow. Right now, I'd say he's financing an army of Jacks to take over 'the world'(and they would be lead by the demonic Tekken fighters), but I would need to put a lot of emphasis on that. In fact, dealing with the supernatural might be a pain in itself.

Edit: Also, Wang has a history with the syndicate(He was friends with Heihachi's Father) and yeah.....Armored King was left out. Couldn't think of any good way to have him there. 

So for those who have read everything........Does it seem okay? Maybe I'd want to pursue this project in the future.......


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## Ronin0510 (Feb 23, 2011)

I myself am I huge tekken fan and I approve. Except Roger and Alex need to have some kind of cameo even if its just an easter egg  like having their names appear on a screen at the Zaibatsu experimental lab or something.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2011)

That would have to be it. Once again, the cgi.......it would be awful. 

The budget would have to be like $100,000,000 to sustain that when as of right now, they wouldnt give even $30,000,000(the budget ot the actual movie). But if it was just the names or something appearing, that would be fine.


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## teddy (Feb 24, 2011)

I never knew that they even made a movie? Based on what I read in the link provided and what you posted; I prefer to see your version realized.


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## Gunners (Feb 24, 2011)

The problem with these movies is they try to incoperate too many characters. If I was to make the movie, Jin or Kazuya would be the main character, and I'd have Kazuya or Heichi as the villain. 

I'd have a plot, the protagonist would have his girl. Other characters might get cameo appearances.


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## masamune1 (Feb 24, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> But tell me what you think. Are some of my changes acceptable? Am I forgetting something? Whatever.



This is what you asked for.

Remember that.



> Okay, I dont know if this deserves its own thread......but bare with me. Im a huge Tekken fan, but HATED the 2010 movie(which I reviewed, here.). I dont get why they felt the need to change things that did not need to be changed. So I was wondering, how difficult could it be? Why dont I do a rough outline of what I would do.



Well, firstly, I could have told you that from the trailer. Heck, I could and probably _did_ tell you that when the the film was _announced._

But moving on....



> First off, I would focus more on "Tekken 2". The problem with "Tekken(1)" is that it has no real story and the sequel has more potential for development in both story and character. Two, there will be changes and I'll have to fill in some gaps. Obviously if you aren't familiar with Tekken, you wont have a clue what Im talking about, so read at your own risk.



Don't quite agree. I think there is enough story, with some tweaking, to be able to make stuff out of that game. It centres on a nice twist in that the cliched, Ryu-esque fighting character is still the main star....but in this, he's *evil.*

Which might not have been completely obvious until the sequel, or at least his ending where he drops his dad off a cliff and then smirks, but it could be enough to get things roling.

But thats neither here nor there. Continuing....



> Main Characters: Jun, Kazuya, Lee
> 
> Supporting Characters: Heihachi, Lei, Wang, Nina, Anna
> 
> (everyone else is minor).



..._Lee?_

As in Lee Chaolan? That conniving little bastard?

Okay, I haven't played _Tekken 6_ yet (I'd rather play the 2nd and 3rd games again.....Actually, I might try getting them when I finish this), but I don't recall Lee being _that_ important of a character. Why in God's name would you put _him_ on the main character list?

I also don't think Jun should be there since, lets face it, she wasn't that special in that one game she appeared in. She's only come to matter because of the surprise twist that Kazuya banged her before his dad chucked him into a volcano. Everything else since about her being "purity incarnate" and whatever else has just been sledgehammered in along with all that "Devil Gene" malarckey. I think she worked better as a, perhaps slightly mysterious, supporting character. That kind of distance would help make her seem more "pure" anyway, without looking like a Mary Sue.

If you are doing a _Tekken 2_ adaptation then the only way to go is Heihachi. He should be the protagonist, and it would be rather refreshing since how many martial arts/ video game/ action movies can you name where the main star is a 50 year old evil bastard? It's him against his son as the central plotline, though to be honest I think it should be more of an ensemble piece with no one storyline dominating the others too much. That the failing of films like these- fighting games work because the main character is not the only guy we're interested in.



> _Big-ass exposition....._



Firstly, I don't think the Iron Fist tournament should be about Heihachi saying "damn, its dull to be King", and wagering everything he's got on his ability to take names, kick ass, and hurl his children off tall places. It should be what it is- a violent bloodsport that he happens to be very, very good at. And when Kazuya faces down his dad, he only takes over because he offs the old man (or so he thinks...) and nobody asks too many questions, and since he's the son of the boss, and thus carried enough corporate clout anyway.

And I don't think it should dwell too much on the idea that the Mishama Conglomerate is "more powerful than some governments" or some stuff like that. Thats distracting and unimportant. The early games portray it as a shadowy, powerful organzation involved in various illicit enterprises behind the scenes, and governments get no mention at all. What mattered was the people whose toes upon it has stepped, and now those people are back for blood.....in a corporate-sponsored no holds barred fighting tournament. Don't even _mention_ states or anything like that; it works better if it seems like the governments of the world do not matter to them, or vice-versa, since that keeps it personal and makes them more evil. 

Basically stay away from this corporate and legal nonsense, and focus on the tournament. So drop things like attempts to have Kazuya arrested, or Kazuya personally overseeing the creation of his robot army- stuff like that works better implied, if mentioned at all. So if there are JACK's being built (and again, the focus should be on just one, like a rogue one as in the original games, to keep it personal) it should barely be mentioned that the mishama Zaibatsu is behind it. Because that makes them more ominous. And evil.

Focus much more on the tournament, and not on the tournament as a disguise for a bid for world domination or turning people into Devils (_wtf are you smoking?)_ Keep things _a lot_ more ambiguous, and don't overrate the importance of the tournament. Iron Fist is nothing more than a popular fighting gig that Kazuya is using to bait and kill people out to get him, or he doesn't like, aside from the plenty who are there and have no idea all this stuff is going on and are there only for the money. You want to avoid the plot tumour, which has set into the games as of late, and return to the simplicity of earlier experiences.

For myself, I _would_ adapt _Tekken 1_ and use it to set up more epic encounters in _Tekken 2_ and _3_; the _Begins_ to their _Dark Knight_ and _Dark Knight Rises_, shall we say, for lack of a better example. 

I would focus much more on the tournament and partcipants than you seem to have done and avoid as much as possible anything about Kazuya or Heihachis' grander ambitions. 

I would avert giving them some kind of master plan altogether. The people out to get those two aren't there to prevent anything like that- those two are evil because they are evil, and its better to worry about the more banal and day-to-day villainy, the stuff that brought half the cast there in the first place, and less on an out-of-the-blue and largely irrelevant grand evils scheme.  

I would actually choose, as key protagonists, characters who don't have a clue about what the hell is going on, characters like Law or Paul and guys like that, and let the main story unfold in their background. The story can get pretty confusing at times, at least for a movie or even series of movies, so I think it would be better to have audience surrogates who are more divorced from things. That stuff is important to add flavour and a measure of depth- the main focus, though, should be on guys beating the crap out of each other.

Yeah...a _Tekken_ movie starring someone like Paul Phoenix. I honestly think that would work best. He would be the protagonist, but not the main character, particularly in the first one where he is out to get the _real_ main character, that evil bastard Kazuya, who doesnt give a crap about him. The other people involved in this- this tale of corporate espionage, demonic possession, cyborg ninjas and military robots- they would appear as supporting characters in their own story.

So....It's better to make fun of it a bit, and not to play it straight. The story, while interesting, is just too bizarre and complicated to do justice in a movie. People won't have a clue what the hell is going on, and I think you go in the wrong direction and try to adapt it a bit too crudely. If Paul was the star, even if you changed next to nothing, people still wouldn't follow a lot of it but that wouldn't really matter. Because, this way, we don't really expect them too.

Oh, and I think Jun sleeping with Kazuya naturally makes sense. Kazuya had made a deal with the devil, and I like to think he had a sort of supernatural charisma as a result of it. Add to that the possiblity that the two really were attracted to each other, if only a little bit, then I think its okay to believe that Kazuya is not a rapist. Or that kind of rapist, anyway.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2011)

> Don't quite agree. I think there is enough story, with some tweakingl to be able to make stuff out of that game. It centres on a nice twist in that the cliched, Ryu-esque fighting character is still the main star....but in this, he's evil.
> 
> Which might not have been completely obvious until the sequel, or at least his ending where he drops his dad off a cliff and then smirks, but it could be enough to get things roling.
> 
> But thats neither here nor there. Continuing....



To be honest, my only reluctance with skipping to Tekken 2 is that I DID like the idea of the protagonist turning out to be the true villain(although "Versus" kind of already did that). However, everything else is just.......pretty standard.



> ...Lee?
> 
> As in Lee Chaolan? That conniving little bastard?
> 
> ...



He was the main subboss in Tekken and Tekken 2(as Kazuya and Heihachi's endings were canon) and apparently did very good in Tekken 4(or was it Tekken 5). In Tekken 6, he's sort of important(and a good guy......).



> also don't think Jun should be there since, lets face it, she wasn't that special in that one game she appeared in. She's only come to matter because of the surprise twist that Kazuya banged her before his dad chucked him into a volcano. Everything else since about her being "purity incarnate" and whatever else has just been sledgehammered in along with all that "Devil Gene" malarckey. I think she worked better as a, perhaps slightly mysterious, supporting character. That kind of distance would help make her seem more "pure" anyway, ithout looking like a Mary Sue.



Considering how much she featured in the Tekken 2 intro......although granted, new characters tend to get the most screen time. 




> If you are doing a Tekken 2 adaptation then the only way to go is Heihachi. He should be the protagonist, and it would be rather refreshing since how many martial arts/ video game/ action movies can you name where the main star is a 50 yaer old evil bastard? It's him against his son as th central plotline, though to be honest I think it should be more of an ensemble piece with no one storyline dominating the others too much. That the failing of films like these- fighting games work because the main character is not the only guy we're interested in



True, but the problem is I dont think he's be sympathetic enough. Plus, there'd be no character arc, no meaningful relationships, no personality(in the games, he's recently become kind of a joke, but prior to this, he was just shown to be your typical villain). 



> Firstly, I don't think the Iron Fist tournament should be about Heihachi saying "damn, its dull to be King", and wagering everything he's got on his ability to take names, kick ass, and hurl his children off tall places. It should be what it is- a violent bloodsport that he happens to be very, very good at. And when Kazuya faces down his dad, he only takes over because he offs the old man (or so he thinks...) and nobody asks too many questions, and since he's the son of the boss, and thus carried enough corporate clout anyway.



Pretty good, although doesn't it say in the games that whoever wins gets the syndicate?




> And I dno't think it should dwell too much on the idea that the Mishama Conglomerate is "more powerful than some governments" or some stuff like that. Thats distracting and unimportant. The early games portray it as a shadowy, powerful organzation involved in various illicit enterprises behind the scenes, and governments get no mention at all. What mattered was the people whose toes upon it has stepped, and now those people are back for blood.....in a corporate-sponsored no holds barred fighting tournament. Don't even mention states or anything like that; it works better if it seems like the governments of the world do not matter to them, or vice-versa, since that keeps it personal and makes them more evil.



Alright, good point. 



> Basically stay away from this corporate and legal nonsense, and focus on the tournament. So drop things like attempts to have Kazuya arrested, or Kazuya personally overseeing the creation of his robot army- stuff like that works better implied, if mentioned at all. So if there are JACK's being built (and aagin, the focus should be on just one, like a rogue one as in the original games, to keep it personal) it should barely be mentioned that the mishama Zaibatsu is behind it. Because that makes them more ominous. And evil.



While these are good points, they dont fit well with the games(Lei and Jun are trying to get Kazuya)  and there are plenty of Jacks in the opening of Tekken 2. 



> Focus much more on the tournament, and not on the tournament as a disguise for a bid for world domination or turning people into Devils (wtf are you smoking?) Keep things a lot more ambiguous, and don't overrate the importance of the tournament. Iron Fist is nothing more than a popular fighting gig that Kazuya is using to bait and kill people out to get him, or he doesn't like, aside from the plenty who are there and have no idea all this stuff is going on and are there only for the money. You want to avoid the plot tumour, which has set into the games as of late, and return to the simplicity of earlier experiences.



Might have something there. 



> For myself, I would adapt Tekken 1 and use it to set up more epic encounters in Tekken 2 and 3; the Begins to their Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises, shall we say, for lack of a better example.
> 
> I would focus much more on the tournament and partcipants than you seem to have done and avoid as much as possible anything about Kazuya or Heihachis' grander ambitions.
> 
> ...



All interesting ideas, even if I dont completely agree. Thanks for the feedback.


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## masamune1 (Feb 24, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> To be honest, my only reluctance with skipping to Tekken 2 is that I DID like the idea of the protagonist turning out to be the true villain(although "Versus" kind of already did that). However, everything else is just.......pretty standard.



True, but that is more because the story was just getting started. You could incorporate some plot and character elements from the sequel, for the supporting characters anyway. It would mean that in _Tekken 2_ you don't have to worry so much about developing those characters, and could focus more on others. Some of the characters got basically the same story in both games, so it shouldn't be that hard.



> He was the main subboss in Tekken and Tekken 2(as Kazuya and Heihachi's endings were canon) and apparently did very good in Tekken 4(or was it Tekken 5). In Tekken 6, he's sort of important(and a good guy......).



He was only the sub-boss becuase he was related to Kazuya and Heihachi, by adoption. He branches out in later games. He is a petty rival interested only in showing up those two and taking over the Zaibatsu, but he doesn't have any interest in the Devil stuff or the intense Mishima blood fued, nor actually have much real impact on the plot, no more than many other characters. 



> Considering how much she featured in the Tekken 2 intro......although granted, new characters tend to get the most screen time.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVFnXKpiH5M[/YOUTUBE]

Don't think she did.



> True, but the problem is I dont think he's be sympathetic enough. Plus, there'd be no character arc, no meaningful relationships, no personality(in the games, he's recently become kind of a joke, but prior to this, he was just shown to be your typical villain).



Kazuya and Lee are just as unsympathetic. They might have better reasons for being bad considering who their father is, but both are just as bad and Kazuya is probably even worse. I think it would work fine, as long as you present it as kind of Mafia-film ethics, making Heihachi the kind of magnificent bastard that he is. Rely on his sheer audacity. And like I said- ultimately, Kazuya is worse, especially in the 2nd game.

And besides, like I said, it would be better to do it more ensemble style. Just because _he_ isn't that sympathetic, doesn't mean the other characters can't make up for him.



> Pretty good, although doesn't it say in the games that whoever wins gets the syndicate?



No. That was only _Tekken 4._



> While these are good points, they dont fit well with the games(Lei and Jun are trying to get Kazuya)  and there are plenty of Jacks in the opening of Tekken 2.



Weird....I always thought that was a mirror or something....That it was just one Jack-2's reflection.

Doesn't really change anything though. All those Jack's are just one of a number of nefarious things the Mishima corp. was working on, to whatever end (not even sure if it _was_ Mishima corp.). Probably, Kazuya just planned on selling them as weapons. It was never something he took a special interest in. 

There was an army of Jacks in the story, but in the _game_ the Jack-2 you play as had gone rogue.

They are more generally interested in the Mishama corp. as run by Kazuya than Kazuya himself, a man they have never met. They are investigating the shady dealings of the company, and it would be better to approach it from that angle. Most characters have something similar going on- Nina was was hired to assassinate Kazuya (or Heihachi- its left vague, and she was manipulated by Ogre), Law wants them for messing with his dojo, Michelle for bullying her for her amulet...etc.

It would be better to work it as the game does with their sub-bosses- most of them work for Kazuya and were pitted against these people to get rid of them, scare them off or kill them. Wang works for Kazuya and was told to deal with Jun; Ganryu too, and was told to deal with Michelle; Anna was sent after Nina, for obvious reasons; Kunimitsu for Yoshimitsu...and so on. That was their climaxes. Kazuya basically gathered a team of villains to fight a bunch of heroes. 

To put it another way- yes, that _is_ how it fits in the games. That is _exactly_ how the Mishama Zaibatsu is portrayed in _Tekken 2,_ and more or less in most games as well.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 24, 2011)

> True, but that is more because the story was just getting started. You could incorporate some plot and character elements from the sequel, for the supporting characters anyway. It would mean that in Tekken 2 you don't have to worry so much about developing those characters, and could focus more on others. Some of the characters got basically the same story in both games, so it shouldn't be that hard.



The problem is............I still can't think of anything that would make the movie stick out. I can think of how I would do Tekken 2 and even Tekken 3. But not Tekken(1). A main issue there is just I lack inspiration there.



> Kazuya and Lee are just as unsympathetic. They might have better reasons for being bad considering who their father is, but both are just as bad and Kazuya is probably even worse. I think it would work fine, as long as you present it as kind of Mafia-film ethics, making Heihachi the kind of magnificent bastard that he is. Rely on his sheer audacity. And like I said- ultimately, Kazuya is worse, especially in the 2nd game.
> 
> And besides, like I said, it would be better to do it more ensemble style. Just because he isn't that sympathetic, doesn't mean the other characters can't make up for him.


But Kazuya is actually somewhat conflicted(represented by angel). Tbh, I dont get why people ever considered Lee 'the bad guy'.

He hates Heihachi and he hates Kazuya. That pretty much has been what drove him. The only aspect of his character that makes me wonder is the fact he tends to kill Kazuya, Heihachi and Jin in his endings. But in Tekken 2, he works with Wang, and Tekken 6, he works with Julia(and ultimately agrees to help Lars save Alisa). 



> He was only the sub-boss becuase he was related to Kazuya and Heihachi, by adoption. He branches out in later games. He is a petty rival interested only in showing up those two and taking over the Zaibatsu, but he doesn't have any interest in the Devil stuff or the intense Mishima blood fued, nor actually have much real impact on the plot, no more than many other characters.



Remember that the Devil aspect though didnt become a major issue until Tekken 3. There's no real indication he even knows Kazuya sold his soul in Tekken 2. 



> No. That was only Tekken 4.



Oh, my bad. Then yeah, you're right there. 



> Weird....I always thought that was a mirror or something....That it was just one Jack-2's reflection.
> 
> Doesn't really change anything though. All those Jack's are just one of a number of nefarious things the Mishima corp. was working on, to whatever end (not even sure if it was Mishima corp.). Probably, Kazuya just planned on selling them as weapons. It was never something he took a special interest in.
> 
> There was an army of Jacks in the story, but in the game the Jack-2 you play as had gone rogue.



Fair enough. 



> They are more generally interested in the Mishama corp. as run by Kazuya than Kazuya himself, a man they have never met. They are investigating the shady dealings of the company, and it would be better to approach it from that angle. Most characters have something similar going on- Nina was was hired to assassinate Kazuya (or Heihachi- its left vague, and she was manipulated by Ogre), Law wants them for messing with his dojo, Michelle for bullying her for her amulet...etc.



In Tekken 1, Nina was supposed to kill Heihachi. In Tekken 2, it was Kazuya. It's not until Tekken 3 that she's manipulated by ogre. Law at no point indicates he cares about the syndicate. He justr wants Baek, and Michelle's grandmother was captured by them. 

I see your point, and yeah, Kazuya is supposed to be in the shadows. But investigating the syndicate means they will eventually move to arrest Kazuya(I guess I should say that, they're just there to investigate, not really sure what they're up against). 



> It would be better to work it as the game does with their sub-bosses- most of them work for Kazuya and were pitted against these people to get rid of them, scare them off or kill them. Wang works for Kazuya and was told to deal with Jun; Ganryu too, and was told to deal with Michelle; Anna was sent after Nina, for obvious reasons; Kunimitsu for Yoshimitsu...and so on. That was their climaxes. Kazuya basically gathered a team of villains to fight a bunch of heroes.
> 
> To put it another way- yes, that is how it fits in the games. That is exactly how the Mishama Zaibatsu is portrayed in Tekken 2, and more or less in most games as well.



That's a good point, although Wang never worked for Kazuya if I recall. In fact, he ultimately tries to get Jun and Lee(indirectly) to stop him. 

lol, man, I dont think any of Kazuya's henchman even beat any of the heroes....he obviously hired the wrong people.


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## masamune1 (Feb 24, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> The problem is............I still can't think of anything that would make the movie stick out. I can think of how I would do Tekken 2 and even Tekken 3. But not Tekken(1). A main issue there is just I lack inspiration there.



Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I can think of a few ways I could see it done.



> But Kazuya is actually somewhat conflicted(represented by angel).



Yeah, but he chooses Devil. Heihachi might not have that kind of inner conflict, but he's not selling his soul to demons or out to destroy the world either. Kazuya ran the Zaibatsu even more ruthlessly than he did, which is why he had so many enemies. Heihachi is usually the lesser of two evils.



> Tbh, I dont get why people ever considered Lee 'the bad guy'.
> 
> He hates Heihachi and he hates Kazuya. That pretty much has been what drove him. The only aspect of his character that makes me wonder is the fact he tends to kill Kazuya, Heihachi and Jin in his endings. But in Tekken 2, he works with Wang, and Tekken 6, he works with Julia(and ultimately agrees to help Lars save Alisa).
> 
> Remember that the Devil aspect though didnt become a major issue until Tekken 3. There's no real indication he even knows Kazuya sold his soul in Tekken 2.



For most of the games he's a self-indulgent, greedy, arrogant little sociopath. He is the foster son of a megalomaniac and that really has affected him not too much different from how it affected Kazuya. His goal is usually just to take over the-evil- company and, as you say, kill those two, and to hell with anything else. In _Tekken 4_ in spite of all thats going on and evreything that Kazuya and Heihachi have done to other people, he is still driven by no other motive than to humiliate and replace them. Then he'll just be happy being a regular CEO of a crooked megacorporation. 

He isn't noble; he doesn't want to reform the company and he has few moral scruples about anything. He may or may not know about Devil but if he did, he obviously doesn't give a rats ass. I don't know how he turns out in _Tekken 6_ but in most of the games, he is a jerk. A spoilt, bratty, egotistical jerk. The fact that the people he hates are even worse doesn't mean squat.





> In Tekken 1, Nina was supposed to kill Heihachi. In Tekken 2, it was Kazuya. It's not until Tekken 3 that she's manipulated by ogre. Law at no point indicates he cares about the syndicate. He justr wants Baek, and Michelle's grandmother was captured by them.



It was implied in _Tekken 3_ that Ogre was _always_ the one manipulating her, since it was never clear who hired her to kill those two in the first place. But thats neither here nor there, and might have changed.

Law wants the person whose been messing with his dojo and that led him to Baek, but Baek, I believe, was working for the Mishimas. At least, I never saw any other reason why he would do such a thing. And Michelle, yeah, her grandmother was kidnapped, because they wanted the amulet in her possession, which can be used to control Ogre. That, again, is a loose end tied up in _Tekken 3._



> I see your point, and yeah, Kazuya is supposed to be in the shadows. But investigating the syndicate means they will eventually move to arrest Kazuya(I guess I should say that, they're just there to investigate, not really sure what they're up against).



I saw Kazuya in _Tekken 2_ as a kind of recluse, like a young and evil Howard Hughs, in this case staying in his skyscraper hiding out from his enemies, as well as doing stuff with Devil. For what its worth. 

Obviously what they were doing would lead to Kazuya, but generally he should be seen as the type of villain whom the law just would never be able to touch, period. He has supernatural powers and his hand in too many evils; its a fair bet that the government already knows what hes up to and hes got them involved in it. Arrest would never be a serious option.



> That's a good point, although Wang never worked for Kazuya if I recall. In fact, he ultimately tries to get Jun and Lee(indirectly) to stop him.



Its in the manual. Jun was snooping around and the people doing the profiles on the contenders suggested Wang be sent to deal with her. So, he might have betrayed Kazuya in the end; but for a time, he worked for him. Said betrayal was probably a retcon since Wang seemed to be a genuinelly sinister figure in the early games (hence, his evil laugh).



> lol, man, I dont think any of Kazuya's henchman even beat any of the heroes....he obviously hired the wrong people.



Well, in the end it was his dad who kicked his ass. Nina was captured, Jun had Kazuya's kid, and neither she nor Lei got enough to bring the Zaibatsu down since Heihachi is still running it 18 years later. So, they might not have _won,_ but in the end most things worked out.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2011)

> Yeah, but he chooses Devil. Heihachi might not have that kind of inner conflict, but he's not selling his soul to demons or out to destroy the world either. Kazuya ran the Zaibatsu even more ruthlessly than he did, which is why he had so many enemies. Heihachi is usually the lesser of two evils.



Yes, but the final choice wouldn't be done until the climax. The fact that Kazuya was the true villain is the surprise. But beyond that, once again, Heihachi is a static character. There's no depth, no drama, nothing. 



> For most of the games he's a self-indulgent, greedy, arrogant little sociopath. He is the foster son of a megalomaniac and that really has affected him not too much different from how it affected Kazuya. His goal is usually just to take over the-evil- company and, as you say, kill those two, and to hell with anything else. In Tekken 4 in spite of all thats going on and evreything that Kazuya and Heihachi have done to other people, he is still driven by no other motive than to humiliate and replace them. Then he'll just be happy being a regular CEO of a crooked megacorporation.
> 
> He isn't noble; he doesn't want to reform the company and he has few moral scruples about anything. He may or may not know about Devil but if he did, he obviously doesn't give a rats ass. I don't know how he turns out in Tekken 6 but in most of the games, he is a jerk. A spoilt, bratty, egotistical jerk. The fact that the people he hates are even worse doesn't mean squat.



Yet you overlooked my points. While yes, he is a spoiled, bratty, egotistical jerk, that's not the end of the character. (For the record, Im not necessarily a big Lee fan. I just think that he would be a nice contrast to Kazuya. Plus, even in my story, Lee attempts to have Kazuya killed. A major theme I went on was how most of these people turned out to be monstrous) .



> It was implied in Tekken 3 that Ogre was always the one manipulating her, since it was never clear who hired her to kill those two in the first place. But thats neither here nor there, and might have changed.
> 
> Law wants the person whose been messing with his dojo and that led him to Baek, but Baek, I believe, was working for the Mishimas. At least, I never saw any other reason why he would do such a thing. And Michelle, yeah, her grandmother was kidnapped, because they wanted the amulet in her possession, which can be used to control Ogre. That, again, is a loose end tied up in Tekken 3.



In canon, Baek actually attacked Laws dojo randomly, going on a rampage after accidentally killing his father.

- (On Ogre) Hmmm, I need to check again.



> I saw Kazuya in Tekken 2 as a kind of recluse, like a young and evil Howard Hughs, in this case staying in his skyscraper hiding out from his enemies, as well as doing stuff with Devil. For what its worth.
> 
> Obviously what they were doing would lead to Kazuya, but generally he should be seen as the type of villain whom the law just would never be able to touch, period. He has supernatural powers and his hand in too many evils; its a fair bet that the government already knows what hes up to and hes got them involved in it. Arrest would never be a serious option.



That is a good point.



> Its in the manual. Jun was snooping around and the people doing the profiles on the contenders suggested Wang be sent to deal with her. So, he might have betrayed Kazuya in the end; but for a time, he worked for him. Said betrayal was probably a retcon since Wang seemed to be a genuinelly sinister figure in the early games (hence, his evil laugh).



Hmmm, interesting. I never knew that.



> Well, in the end it was his dad who kicked his ass. Nina was captured, Jun had Kazuya's kid, and neither she nor Lei got enough to bring the Zaibatsu down since Heihachi is still running it 18 years later. So, they might not have won, but in the end most things worked out.



lol true.


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## masamune1 (Feb 25, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> Yes, but the final choice wouldn't be done until the climax. The fact that Kazuya was the true villain is the surprise. But beyond that, once again, Heihachi is a static character. There's no depth, no drama, nothing.



Don't really agree with that. It was only a surprise because, being a beat-'em up and one of the earky 3-D examples, there wasn't really _anything_ about the character to get to know. The manual, and his perpetual scowl, are about the only other hints to his dark nature, but there is not really a lot to suggest his personality one way or the other. The only reason people may have thought he was good was that he looked a bit like Ryu and he was the main character.

In other words, in a film he'd have to reveal more, and be shown as the selfish bastard he is. It wouldn't have to be a surprise that he is an asshole. You don't need a sympathetic lead to have a good story. The other characters can make up for both of them.

On Heihachi, the drama comes from the all-out war between himself and his son and their messed up family life. And he _does_ have depth, such as in Kazuya's ending when he saved his life from Devil. 



> Yet you overlooked my points. While yes, he is a spoiled, bratty, egotistical jerk, that's not the end of the character. (For the record, Im not necessarily a big Lee fan. I just think that he would be a nice contrast to Kazuya. Plus, even in my story, Lee attempts to have Kazuya killed. A major theme I went on was how most of these people turned out to be monstrous) .



It was the end of his character for most of the games; like I said, I haven't played _6_ though. The point is you asked why people thought Lee was "the bad guy"- its because he sure as hell isn't the good guy. 



> *In canon, Baek actually attacked Laws dojo randomly, going on a rampage after accidentally killing his father.*
> - (On Ogre) Hmmm, I need to check again.



Hmmm...Well, anyway, I think he ended up working for Kazuya, at least after that. Which brings in Law.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2011)

> Don't really agree with that. It was only a surprise because, being a beat-'em up and one of the earky 3-D examples, there wasn't really anything about the character to get to know. The manual, and his perpetual scowl, are about the only other hints to his dark nature, but there is not really a lot to suggest his personality one way or the other. The only reason people may have thought he was good was that he looked a bit like Ryu and he was the main character.



I was actually referring to Tekken 2. I thought that Kazuya would turn good by the end of the game(and maybe even thought his ending was going to be canon). Although granted, I watched that anime movie before I played Tekken 3, which probably affected that. 


> In other words, in a film he'd have to reveal more, and be shown as the selfish bastard he is. It wouldn't have to be a surprise that he is an asshole. You don't need a sympathetic lead to have a good story. The other characters can make up for both of them.



Once again, referring to Tekken 2. The film would lead us to believe that Kazuya would repent through his relationship with Jun only to have that rug pulled out from under us at the end. 


> On Heihachi, the drama comes from the all-out war between himself and his son and their messed up family life. And he does have depth, such as in Kazuya's ending when he saved his life from Devil.



Heihachi never seems to really care. He wants to kill Kazuya and Jin and get his corporation back. Kazuya's ending certainly is interesting, but it's also not canon. It's even funnier considering that the true canon, Heihachi kills Kazuya. It can be argued that Heihachi just wants to kill Kazuya himself. 

If I were to do a sequel based on Tekken 3(might try that, actually), I'd probably have it look like that Heihachi does care for Jin and possibly repented himself(only to turn out that he hasn't). Tekken 3 gives more room for depth than Tekken 2 for Heihachi. 


> It was the end of his character for most of the games; like I said, I haven't played 6 though. The point is you asked why people thought Lee was "the bad guy"- its because he sure as hell isn't the good guy.



Alright, my point is that Lee isn't 'just a villain'. Actually, most of the villains save Heihachi and Kazuya(since his return) aren't 'just' villains, having their moments of redemption(even Bruce in Tekken 2 had a fairly inspiring ending...I think it was Tekken 2 anyway). 



> Hmmm...Well, anyway, I think he ended up working for Kazuya, at least after that. Which brings in Law.



Im actually not sure when this happened. In fact, as of now, I cant find any proof that Baek worked under Kazuya.


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## masamune1 (Feb 25, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> I was actually referring to Tekken 2. I thought that Kazuya would turn good by the end of the game(and maybe even thought his ending was going to be canon). Although granted, I watched that anime movie before I played Tekken 3, which probably affected that.



Really?

Well, I played _Tekken 2_ before all else (actually, it was the first PS game I owned and played), so I never really got that. Didn't actually know that Heihachi wasn't that nice 'till a few years later. 



> Heihachi never seems to really care. He wants to kill Kazuya and Jin and get his corporation back. Kazuya's ending certainly is interesting, but it's also not canon. It's even funnier considering that the true canon, Heihachi kills Kazuya. It can be argued that Heihachi just wants to kill Kazuya himself.
> 
> If I were to do a sequel based on Tekken 3(might try that, actually), I'd probably have it look like that Heihachi does care for Jin and possibly repented himself(only to turn out that he hasn't). Tekken 3 gives more room for depth than Tekken 2 for Heihachi.



I think there he has traces of feeling for his family. When he duped Kazuya in a volcano, I think there was at least a show of respect there-  giving the man an honourable funeral (and only _then_ smirking at it). 

I'd also argue that one of his motivations is that he regards Kazuya, Jin, and his father as dangerous, demoic creatures that potentially threaten the planet, which is the main reason he wants to kill them (rather than simply humiliate/ manipulate them). Granted, his main concern for the planet is probably "I live here", but still- if they weren't possed by Evil, he probably wouldn't kill them. Would treat them like crap, perhaps, but still wouldn't kill them.



> Im actually not sure when this happened. In fact, as of now, I cant find any proof that Baek worked under Kazuya.



My mistake then.

Still, if I made the movie, I may or may not incoporate it. Wouldn't be hard, and wouldn't have to be too important.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 25, 2011)

> Really?
> 
> Well, I played Tekken 2 before all else (actually, it was the first PS game I owned and played), so I never really got that. Didn't actually know that Heihachi wasn't that nice 'till a few years later.



ah, lol, it's funny how the early games kind of shape what we feel about the characters.



> I think there he has traces of feeling for his family. When he duped Kazuya in a volcano, I think there was at least a show of respect there- giving the man an honourable funeral (and only then smirking at it).
> 
> I'd also argue that one of his motivations is that he regards Kazuya, Jin, and his father as dangerous, demoic creatures that potentially threaten the planet, which is the main reason he wants to kill them (rather than simply humiliate/ manipulate them). Granted, his main concern for the planet is probably "I live here", but still- if they weren't possed by Evil, he probably wouldn't kill them. Would treat them like crap, perhaps, but still wouldn't kill them.



Perhaps, but they just dont explore that in the games enough for it to seem right for a movie. With Kazuya, at least we know why he became a monster. But with Heihachi, we dont. Jinpachi actually was supposed to be a good guy, so Heihachi has no excuse. With Kazuya, it was circumstances that turned him monstrous. 



> My mistake then.
> 
> Still, if I made the movie, I may or may not incoporate it. Wouldn't be hard, and wouldn't have to be too important.



Yeah, to be fair, even I presumed Baek was working for Kazuya...I probably would have Kazuya maybe approach Baek either right before or during the tournament.


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## blacklusterseph004 (Feb 25, 2011)

This was a pretty interesting read. Though I'm not familiar with the entire Tekken canon, I was bitterly disappointed with the Tekken movie. An alternative would be nice.

On the story you've put forward, I'd agree on the focus being the tournament, though I'd like to suggest downgrading the scale of the event. I really hated the campy, cheesy way the tekken and doa films presented the fighting tournament concept. Something less elaborate based on a Vale Tudo setting would make for a grittier setting I think.

Looking at the game-based films, I've also generally been disappointed with the way the martial arts are presented. I think a little more time spent on the martial art styles themselves (similar to how kung fu films did it) might be beneficial, noting perhaps the technical aspects of the movements being performed rather than just displaying a flurry of kicks and punches in a strobe-like stream of scenes cutting angles too rapidly.

Further on the practicality of the layout, to me it just seems like far too many fights. The amount of time to tell the story and to adequately represent the martial arts on a solid story seems like too much. This might be controversial but could I recommend the following:

Limit the actual number of contest participants - Yoshimitsu, King, Nina, Law, Lee, Jack-2, Paul and Baek. They represent an adequate range of styles and the limited number of fights would allow proper attention to their choreography.

Lee could still an investigator but not an active tournament participant. A little ad hoc street fight during the investigation in some arbitrary place would give the chance to showcase a little bit of his skill on screen in a Jacky Chan type tribute fight scene.

The other side characters mentioned could all get a little bit of screen time in a mass fight scenario like the one above which is not tournament match related and can be short, fun and action packed.

On the tournament background, perhaps it would be possible to twist the canon a bit and make it a pre-existing competition but with dangerous new stakes which all the fighters are not aware of. This could be the doing of Kazuya for reasons not made clear to the viewer. Jun could be a side character, important in Kazuya's life but not participating in the tournament. The audience just perceives that this year's tournament has a shady new audience who seem to have a lot invested in the fights (the Jack-2 entrant perhaps represents a company within the zaibatsu which would like control).

With the background story running, the tournament can quickly move to its conclusion without having to rush through fights and nerf contenders since the roster is kept small. I think the above could work if you were working up to a Tekken 1 or 2 ending. Personally, I think it would be cool if Mishima karate featured as a bit important somewhere along the line, possibly in an instrumental scene showing the hidden danger that Kazuya represents. 

You could setup the Mishima family dynamic with some time on their home life including Lee and perhaps departing from canon a bit by making Jun an observer of Kazuya's family life for a longer period as his girlfriend. In this way you could maybe use her as a narrator and a means to engender some audience sympathy for Kazuya which you could manipulate and crush in the rest of the movie.

Incidentally, what did you have in mind for how the fighting would be portrayed. Is there some film's visual style you maybe favour? I'm just trying to picture what this end product might look like.


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## Ronin0510 (Feb 26, 2011)

Kazuya has 6 brothers according to tekken one. I assume that included Lee as well but they went away from that it seems. i would have liked to see that come into play.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

> On the story you've put forward, I'd agree on the focus being the tournament, though I'd like to suggest downgrading the scale of the event. I really hated the campy, cheesy way the tekken and doa films presented the fighting tournament concept. Something less elaborate based on a Vale Tudo setting would make for a grittier setting I think.



I wouldn't go too far with the setting. In terms of round 1, the tournament would probably look like "Enter the Dragon". I dont know if it would take place on an isolated island(too familiar; even the animated movie did that), but it would be a fairly normal outdoor ring surrounded by various martial artists. 

In terms of story, I'd probably change it to what masa suggested(Kazuya using the tournament to kill off enemies), although I'd still keep my 'matches'. 



> Looking at the game-based films, I've also generally been disappointed with the way the martial arts are presented. I think a little more time spent on the martial art styles themselves (similar to how kung fu films did it) might be beneficial, noting perhaps the technical aspects of the movements being performed rather than just displaying a flurry of kicks and punches in a strobe-like stream of scenes cutting angles too rapidly.



yeah, I'd try to have the styles closely resemble the games, only for the really 'impossible' moves to be cut out(example, the Mishimas have that goofy spin around and kick everything around them move).



> Further on the practicality of the layout, to me it just seems like far too many fights. The amount of time to tell the story and to adequately represent the martial arts on a solid story seems like too much. This might be controversial but could I recommend the following:
> 
> Limit the actual number of contest participants - Yoshimitsu, King, Nina, Law, Lee, Jack-2, Paul and Baek. They represent an adequate range of styles and the limited number of fights would allow proper attention to their choreography.
> 
> ...



Not every fight needs to be 'long'. Some might even be off-screen. However, with that number of participants, there wouldn't be enough to space out the whole movie without making the pace slower.

If I would do Tekken 3, however, the fights would be more closely focused on Jin and the main characters. Most of the side fights would be off-screen(because Jin would be the main character for sure, and the fights that occurred in Tekken 3 are mostly unknown).



> On the tournament background, perhaps it would be possible to twist the canon a bit and make it a pre-existing competition but with dangerous new stakes which all the fighters are not aware of. This could be the doing of Kazuya for reasons not made clear to the viewer. Jun could be a side character, important in Kazuya's life but not participating in the tournament. The audience just perceives that this year's tournament has a shady new audience who seem to have a lot invested in the fights (the Jack-2 entrant perhaps represents a company within the zaibatsu which would like control).



Except I'd have Jun be the protagonist, so she'd almost have to be a participant. If she was just a side character, her impact would be lessened.



> With the background story running, the tournament can quickly move to its conclusion without having to rush through fights and nerf contenders since the roster is kept small. I think the above could work if you were working up to a Tekken 1 or 2 ending. Personally, I think it would be cool if Mishima karate featured as a bit important somewhere along the line, possibly in an instrumental scene showing the hidden danger that Kazuya represents.
> 
> You could setup the Mishima family dynamic with some time on their home life including Lee and perhaps departing from canon a bit by making Jun an observer of Kazuya's family life for a longer period as his girlfriend. In this way you could maybe use her as a narrator and a means to engender some audience sympathy for Kazuya which you could manipulate and crush in the rest of the movie.



Interesting idea. In fact, based on this, you could even pull a "Death Note" movie-esque ending where we think the girlfriend will be Light's redemption, but it ends up being part of his damnation. 

However.....I want to stick as close to the Tekken canon as possible. That would change it up too much.



> Incidentally, what did you have in mind for how the fighting would be portrayed. Is there some film's visual style you maybe favour? I'm just trying to picture what this end product might look like.



I want the epic scale of "Enter the Dragon"(not in the elaborate tournament location, but in how its shot. Plenty of long shots, ambitious framing, etc. Not like the claustrophobic settings of the 2010 movie. 

In terms of fights, I'd try to have all of their respective styles with plenty of their moves. They might be toned down to be more 'realistic'(example, the Mishimas will probably just be using karate).


> Kazuya has 6 brothers according to tekken one. I assume that included Lee as well but they went away from that it seems. i would have liked to see that come into play.



Where does it say this????

In Tekken 6, Kazuya says something like: "Damn it, I have a brother?" when he realizes Lars is of Mishima blood.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror, you just cost me £60.

Because of you, I ordered _Tekken 2_ and _3_ off of Amazon UK two days ago. _Tekken 3_ arrived just today.

(And its _*awesome!)*_


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

lol. Tekken 3 was my favorite in terms of gameplay. 

I liked Tekken 4 the most in terms of story development and the cinema sequences.


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> Okay, I dont know if this deserves its own thread......but bare with me. Im a huge Tekken fan, but HATED the 2010 movie(which I reviewed, here.). I dont get why they felt the need to change things that did not need to be changed. So I was wondering, how difficult could it be? Why dont I do a rough outline of what I would do.




Okay, first off yeah I utterly despise the 2010 Tekken film (in spite of how uncontainable my excitement for it was) but dude seriously "Tekken 1" had no real story? Hello it details Kazuya's background story and others. If anything the movie should integrate the elements of both Tekken 1 and 2 similar to how the anime movie did. Only the movie should shed more lights on characters like Yoshimitsu, King, Paul, Law, Lei Wulong. Law,  and Paul should be the comical relief of the film since they are for the video game franchise. 

Another gripe I have about your ideas for Kazuya X Jun



> On the rape: It's mostly implied. The reason I did this is I cant imagine Jun sleeping with him after knowing him for no more than a few days(she's supposed to be purity incarnate, after all). It's too "typically Hollywood".



So what you're going make the same mistake the maker of the 2010 film did? Dude, it was a genuine romantic encounter there is nothing so "hollywood" about having Kazuya impregnate her on a whim.

If anything I believe Kazuya X Jun story was the only thing remotely alright in the anime film.

This scene from the movie was beautiful too



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJpIHBZ3g3M&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Although like how the anime film ended Heihachi knocks out Jun then out-reacts Kazuya and knocks him out. Heihachi picks up Kazuya and heads for the volcano. Jun quickly recovers and wakes up just in time to see Heihachi with Kazuya overhead. She cries out to him to stop but Heihachi doesn't heed her cries throws him in the volcano.


The last part of the film is with Jin and Jun.

While they're walking away you see Kazuya watching them with a serene look on his face but then chuckling and laughing then turning into Devil. 

After the credits you see Jin Kazama from Tekken 3.



> So for those who have read everything........Does it seem okay? Maybe I'd want to pursue this project in the future.......



Then you should include me in on this since I'm one of the biggest Tekken fans of the century.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

I think _2_ and _3_ had the best stories. _4_ was the game where the series jumped the shark (well, maybe _5_, what with Heihachi surivivng...._that.)_ Though that might be more in terms of gameplay and stuff than story, I suppose.

I like the balls it took to kill off so many characters, and I'm pretty upset that they undid that. I like the atmosphere and the sense I had for the characters. For a series about cyborgs, demons, robots, cursed bloodlines and the rest, the early games were believable, believable in how they unfolded. It was a classic tale of revenge, family and betrayal, for a game with almost no dialogue ('cept Julias' crappy ending).

4, well, 4 ended with pretty much the same status quo as when it started, started bringing back supposedly dead characters (Kazuya is okay, but the others should have remained dead), and brought in all that Devil Gene crap. I thought the story was rather dissapointing.


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I think _2_ and _3_ had the best stories. _4_ was the game where the series jumped the shark (well, maybe _5_, what with Heihachi surivivng...._that.)_ Though that might be more in terms of gameplay and stuff than story, I suppose.



IIRC, Harada didn't like the idea of a game without Heihachi since he's a central element of Tekken. 





> 4, well, 4 ended with pretty much the same status quo as when it started, started bringing back supposedly dead characters (Kazuya is okay, but the others should have remained dead), and brought in all that Devil Gene crap. I thought the story was rather dissapointing.



Aye, I agree Baek Doo San should've died. It also saddens me that Jun isn't really dead and is going to return in future installments.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

> Okay, first off yeah I utterly despise the 2010 Tekken film (in spite of how uncontainable my excitement for it was) but dude seriously "Tekken 1" had no real story? Hello it details Kazuya's background story and others. If anything the movie should integrate the elements of both Tekken 1 and 2 similar to how the anime movie did. Only the movie should shed more lights on characters like Yoshimitsu, King, Paul, Law, Lei Wulong. Law, and Paul should be the comical relief of the film since they are for the video game franchise.
> 
> Another gripe I have about your ideas for Kazuya X Jun



For one, what is there for Kazuya's background? He was abused, thrown off a cliff and fault Paul before entering the tournament.....The whole point of it is to reveal that Kazuya was the true villain. Thats not enough to make a whole movie around, and everyone elses stories wouldn't fit in unless it points to the conclusion somehow.


> So what you're going make the same mistake the maker of the 2010 film did? Dude, it was a genuine romantic encounter there is nothing so "hollywood" about having Kazuya impregnate her on a whim.
> 
> If anything I believe Kazuya X Jun story was the only thing remotely alright in the anime film.
> 
> This scene from the movie was beautiful too



What IS Hollywood is when you have two people meet, fall in love for no other reason other than they're attractive and have sex. Besides the fact this would be too typical for a movie thats already border-lining typical as it is, Jun is supposed to be purity incarnate so it would seem off for her to sleep with him. 

The 2010 movie possibly got that aspect right, although I think they did it because Kazuya was more evil in the movie(and no way Jun would like that. Tekken 2 at least has Kazuya HAVE a good side, as repressed as it is).

I do agree with you that the anime did it well. But they also changed the continuity by combining the first two games. In the anime, since Kazuya rejects evil and doesn't die, you can go ahead and presume Jun and kazuya's relationship developed to where maybe they even got married(although you can also presume based on the ending that Kazuya eventually was killed, probably in the next tournament). 



> Although like how the anime film ended Heihachi knocks out Jun then out-reacts Kazuya and knocks him out. Heihachi picks up Kazuya and heads for the volcano. Jun quickly recovers and wakes up just in time to see Heihachi with Kazuya overhead. She cries out to him to stop but Heihachi doesn't heed her cries throws him in the volcano.
> 
> 
> The last part of the film is with Jin and Jun.
> ...



Er, what? So Heihachi kills them but then Kazuya is alive?



> I think 2 and 3 had the best stories. 4 was the game where the series jumped the shark (well, maybe 5, what with Heihachi surivivng....that.) Though that might be more in terms of gameplay and stuff than story, I suppose.
> 
> I like the balls it took to kill off so many characters, and I'm pretty upset that they undid that. I like the atmosphere and the sense I had for the characters. For a series about cyborgs, demons, robots, cursed bloodlines and the rest, the early games were believable, believable in how they unfolded. It was a classic tale of revenge, family and betrayal, for a game with almost no dialogue ('cept Julias' crappy ending).
> 
> 4, well, 4 ended with pretty much the same status quo as when it started, started bringing back supposedly dead characters (Kazuya is okay, but the others should have remained dead), and brought in all that Devil Gene crap. I thought the story was rather dissapointing.



I felt mainly this way because it was the first game where you didnt have to read the freaking booklet to get this story. I actually strongly agree with you on its pointless resurrecting all of these characters. In fact, I'd keep them 'dead' if I were to do sequels.

Bruce, Baek, Ganryu, Wang and Jun are dead(unless Tekken 7 presents a good way to resurrect her). Lee......Im not sure. It would be ambiguous, depending on if I feel he's important enough for the Tekken 6 aspect of the story. Maybe Wang lived too, but I wouldnt have return.

I liked Kazuya's resurrection because it offers ample development for Jin(Kazuya's good side might've caused him to lose in Tekken 2, but when its revealed Kazuya has completely given into evil, it causes Jin to lose all hope in himself conquering it, which would make his actions in Tekken 6 more believable).

I'd actually combine Tekken 4 and Tekken 5, mainly because I didnt like Tekken 5's story and felt that it was just a rehash of the previous games. I'd have a 3rd film be pretty much Tekken 4 with aspects of Tekken 5(Jin taking over the syndicate). 

The problem with harada is that he gives into pressure too easily. Thats probably why he's been quiet, ambiguous or even downright wishwashy on the Kazuya x Jun relationship. He brought back everyone because of public demand.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

Bender said:


> IIRC, Harada didn't like the idea of a game without Heihachi since he's a central element of Tekken.



I'm not bothered that he didn't die; I'm bothered that all of a sudden he's f*cking Superman.



MartialHorror said:


> For one, what is there for Kazuya's background? He was abused, thrown off a cliff and fault Paul before entering the tournament.....The whole point of it is to reveal that Kazuya was the true villain. Thats not enough to make a whole movie around, and everyone elses stories wouldn't fit in unless it points to the conclusion somehow.



I guess, here, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think there is enough here to make a good movie out of, to help set up a sequel if nothing else.

Everyone elses' helps because they get more tied into the story as the games/ films go on. The elaborate more on the world and they set up future plotlines.



> What IS Hollywood is when you have two people meet, fall in love for no other reason other than they're attractive and have sex. Besides the fact this would be too typical for a movie thats already border-lining typical as it is, Jun is supposed to be purity incarnate so it would seem off for her to sleep with him.



Gotta say, I never really liked that "purity incarnate" angle and I would drop it. I can understand _Jin_ believing that- because its his murdered mother- but until the recent games there was no hint that she was anything other than a very kind lady. 

I still stand by my belief that she was attracted to Kazuya supernaturally, and that he was attracted perhaps to her innocence, more like a vampire; or, as it was, someone in the process of losing their humanity. 



> I felt mainly this way because it was the first game where you didnt have to read the freaking booklet to get this story. I actually strongly agree with you on its pointless resurrecting all of these characters. In fact, I'd keep them 'dead' if I were to do sequels.
> 
> Bruce, Baek, Ganryu, Wang and Jun are dead(unless Tekken 7 presents a good way to resurrect her). Lee......Im not sure. It would be ambiguous, depending on if I feel he's important enough for the Tekken 6 aspect of the story. Maybe Wang lived too, but I wouldnt have return.
> 
> ...



Heh. Well, I'd say that when it was in booklets was when the story was as its best.

I would avoid the Tekken 6 aspect of the story like the plague. Like hell do I want Jin to take over the Mishima Zaibatsu and use it to conquer/ save the world. Like I said, the story is best when its smaller-scale. Not to mention it was basically a rehash of _Tekken 3._


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

lol, yeah, how do you survive that........

Imo, they should've either killed him, or not bothered with that whole intro. The whole selling point of the game was his death, but he shows up with little shock.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, yeah, how do you survive that........
> 
> Imo, they should've either killed him, or not bothered with that whole intro. The whole selling point of the game was his death, but he shows up with little shock.



At the very least, if they wanted him to survive an assassination attempt after appearing to have died, they could have done something less over the top. Like, he gets shot or something. That was the point that just really changed things- all of a sudden, we are playing _DragonBall,_ and not _Tekken._


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

lol, yeah.

Also, while I liked Kazuya's resurrection, I didnt like how he was handled in Tekken 5 and Tekken 6. He just feels pointless now(whereas he was pretty much the main point of Tekken 4).

One thing I do respect is that he isnt as strong as he used to be(he's constantly a subvillain for Heihachi, who is a subvillain for.....whoever the main gimmick villain is), as everyone else has been training like crazy.


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I'm not bothered that he didn't die; I'm bothered that all of a sudden he's f*cking Superman.



In Tekken 5/6 you're asking yourself that?

DUDE he's the first one to recover from Ogre's soul-sucking ability after he uses him to transform into True Ogre. Not only that but his son, Kazuya threw Heihachi off a cliff something he didn't survive from and had to call upon the powers of the devil. While his grandson and son have the powers of the devil gene Heihachi relies on herculean strength. 

Yes, it is a bit awkward in a verse so semi-realistic as Tekken for there to be someone with ridiculous strength as Heihachi. But I'm afraid you're forgetting something bro: In the Mishima bloodline either you're purehearted and a candidate for the powers of the devil gene or you're someone with a bloodstained past and a majority of your skills are your own like Lars Alexandersson and Heihachi.




> For one, what is there for Kazuya's background? He was abused, thrown off a cliff and fault Paul before entering the tournament....



*Beat*

What?

Paul is Kazuya's Hwoarang he merely is one of the many difficult obstacles in the tournament albeit a humorous one. 



> What IS Hollywood is when you have two people meet, fall in love for no other reason other than they're attractive and have sex. Besides the fact this would be too typical for a movie thats already border-lining typical as it is, Jun is supposed to be purity incarnate so it would seem off for her to sleep with him.



For one it was Jun who was first drawn to him and not the other way around. Usually in Hollywood the feelings are mutual with little feelings then growing overtime. Kazuya could notice her just a bit but the sex is merely for pleasure for him and throwing a bit of fan  service out there until we find out it's pivotal to the plot.



> Er, what? So Heihachi kills them but then Kazuya is alive?



No, Jun lives due to the intervention of Lei Wulong who arrives moments later to arrest Kazuya Mishima (you know being an arms dealer and whatnot) but gets there in time to see Heihachi leaving by helicopter. This would also serve as a good way for them to connect (since Heihachi helps Lei round up a criminal faction in Tekken 3) for the next Tekken movie. Also Lei rescuing Jun serves as a shoutout to the Tekken the motion picture.

P.S. It's ADV films dude what do you expect Tekken movie they made being a single flick? If you're familiar with their series they've licensed or have made U.S. sequel only of (like Samurai X Reflections) then it isn't too hard to imagine happening.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> lol, yeah.
> 
> Also, while I liked Kazuya's resurrection, I didnt like how he was handled in Tekken 5 and Tekken 6. He just feels pointless now(whereas he was pretty much the main point of Tekken 4).
> 
> One thing I do respect is that he isnt as strong as he used to be(he's constantly a subvillain for Heihachi, who is a subvillain for.....whoever the main gimmick villain is), as everyone else has been training like crazy.



I don't respect that at all. The Kazuya I know and love would and should be kicking all kinds of ass. Thats why he feels pointless- he's strong enough to survive, but not strong enough to change the status quo. He should be running the Mishima Zaibatsu now, just like the good old days, and get his power back from Jin. 

Maybe they are saving that for the series climax.

I don't like how they are bringing in all these world-threatening villains now; even Ogre wasn't that kind of monster. What I like especially about Kazuya in _Tekken 2_ is that he was an example of True Evil that _didn't_ threaten the safety of the planet but actually prospered with it. I like the idea, uncomfortable but more true, that real Evil can and does thrive and propser within a functioning society. It doesn't have to be its enemy, but its best friend.

Thats more like what I meant when I said the Mishima Zaibatsu should stay in the background. Kazuya was at his scariest not when he, and the other members of his family, were making serious bids to control the world. He was scariest when he was too disinterested in it to care about trying. He actually seemed more evil when he was just a corporate tyrant, not aspiring to be a real one.



Bender said:


> In Tekken 5/6 you're asking yourself that?
> 
> DUDE he's the first one to recover from Ogre's soul-sucking ability after he uses him to transform into True Ogre. Not only that but his son, Kazuya threw Heihachi off a cliff something he didn't survive from and had to call upon the powers of the devil. While his grandson and son have the powers of the devil gene Heihachi relies on herculean strength.
> 
> Yes, it is a bit awkward in a verse so semi-realistic as Tekken for there to be someone with ridiculous strength as Heihachi. But I'm afraid you're forgetting something bro: In the Mishima bloodline either you're purehearted and a candidate for the powers of the devil gene or you're someone with a bloodstained past and a majority of your skills are your own like Lars Alexandersson and Heihachi.



Eh, no. That still went far too far. 

Heihachi survived the cliff drop, but it took him 2 years to fully recover. 
He was the first to recover from Ogre but he was also the _last_ one to have his soul sucked; and was blatantly clear that Ogre didn't suck enough to kill him from all the endings (if anything, the endings suggest that Ogre never sucked his soul _at all,_ and that was just a gameplay thing). The others were supposed to be actually dead and shouldn't have recovered at all.

_That....._that crossed a line.

And I hate that Devil Gene or purehearted stuff. I liked it better when Kazuya just sold his soul, not when his blood actually had that in it. Thats just a mixture of ass-pull and a plot tumour, to keep the Mishima's (and Kazamas) at the centre of the story by force.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

> In Tekken 5/6 you're asking yourself that?
> 
> DUDE he's the first one to recover from Ogre's soul-sucking ability after he uses him to transform into True Ogre. Not only that but his son, Kazuya threw Heihachi off a cliff something he didn't survive from and had to call upon the powers of the devil. While his grandson and son have the powers of the devil gene Heihachi relies on herculean strength.
> 
> Yes, it is a bit awkward in a verse so semi-realistic as Tekken for there to be someone with ridiculous strength as Heihachi. But I'm afraid you're forgetting something bro: In the Mishima bloodline either you're purehearted and a candidate for the powers of the devil gene or you're someone with a bloodstained past and a majority of your skills are your own like Lars Alexandersson and Heihachi.



While yes, you can survive crazy ass shit in Tekken, there was never any indication that you could survive explosions like that. 


> *Beat*
> 
> What?
> 
> Paul is Kazuya's Hwoarang he merely is one of the many difficult obstacles in the tournament albeit a humorous one.



I know, but I just listed all we know about Kazuya's backstory. 


> For one it was Jun who was first drawn to him and not the other way around. Usually in Hollywood the feelings are mutual with little feelings then growing overtime. Kazuya could notice her just a bit but the sex is merely for pleasure for him and throwing a bit of fan service out there until we find out it's pivotal to the plot.



That's a very "Tekken 2010 movie" thing to say(where Kazuya loves the smex). But in the games, there is no indication other than the fact Kazuya did spawn Jin that he's interested in such things. 



> No, Jun lives due to the intervention of Lei Wulong who arrives moments later to arrest Kazuya Mishima (you know being an arms dealer and whatnot) but gets there in time to see Heihachi leaving by helicopter. This would also serve as a good way for them to connect (since Heihachi helps Lei round up a criminal faction in Tekken 3) for the next Tekken movie. Also Lei rescuing Jun serves as a shoutout to the Tekken the motion picture.



Sorry, I worded that wrong. I meant to say "him", not "them". Also, your ideas are too similar to the animated movie. Most people do not like the animated movie.


> P.S. It's ADV films dude what do you expect Tekken movie they made being a single flick? If you're familiar with their series they've licensed or have made U.S. sequel only of (like Samurai X Reflections) then it isn't too hard to imagine happening.



Er, what?




> I don't respect that at all. The Kazuya I know and love would and should be kicking all kinds of ass. Thats why he feels pointless- he's strong enough to survive, but not strong enough to change the status quo. He should be running the Mishima Zaibatsu now, just like the good old days, and get his power back from Jin.
> 
> Maybe they are saving that for the series climax.
> 
> ...



Well, in a perfect world, they'd make all the characters relevant so that its not set in stone that a Mishima will win.....especially Jin(who has won the last FOUR tournaments....er, maybe three).


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> I don't respect that at all. The Kazuya I know and love would and should be kicking all kinds of ass. Thats why he feels pointless- he's strong enough to survive, but not strong enough to change the status quo.



IIRC Kazuya didn't want to run the Zaibatsu again he just wanted to reunite with the DG that Jin possessed so he could destroy the world (as he said in his T6 bio he is the only one allowed to).




> Maybe they are saving that for the series climax.



The Climax of the series I see a showdown with another big monster.

Imo, there should be another big organization (similar to Shadoloo in Street Fighter) or another wham episode in the Mishima's dark history.


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

Actually, better yet I'd like it if Jun Kazama came back as a demon and was the final boss in T7 or another game. You know look like Unknown from Tekken Tag tournament. That'd be an awesome idea.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> Well, in a perfect world, they'd make all the characters relevant so that its not set in stone that a Mishima will win.....especially Jin(who has won the last FOUR tournaments....er, maybe three).



He won Iron Fist 3 and Iron Fist 5. 

Iron Fist 4, I believe, was technically won by Heihachi, who then got beaten by Jin immediately _after_ the tournament. So that doesn't count.



Bender said:


> IIRC Kazuya didn't want to run the Zaibatsu again he just wanted to reunite with the DG that Jin possessed so he could destroy the world (as he said in his T6 bio he is the only one allowed to).



He wants to reunite with the Devil in Jin and take over the Zaibatsu, then the world. He doesn't want to destroy the world; he's just saying that, if the world is going to be destroyed, he is the only one allowed to do it. Because, as far as he is concerned, the world should belong to him.  

Basically, he wants everything.



> The Climax of the series I see a showdown with another big monster.



I hope not. Sick to death of them already.

Unless its Devil or something.



Bender said:


> Actually, better yet I'd like it if Jun Kazama came back as a demon and was the final boss in T7 or another game. You know look like Unknown from Tekken Tag tournament. That'd be an awesome idea.



I don't think so.

It should be a showdown between Kazuya and Jin, or those two and Heihachi, but with Kazuya at last having Jins' Devil. _Tekken 4,_ but done right.

Kazuya, ultimately, is the main villain of the story.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

Meh, you know what I mean. Jin is undefeated.

He MIGHT have lost to Lars in Tekken 6, since Lars is the main character but it's ambiguous. I dont know what's worse though, Jin loses to a new guy(who's even more boring than him), or that they reveal said new guy is of mishima blood.....

Kazuya actually draws against Lars, at least.....so thats something.



> Actually, better yet I'd like it if Jun Kazama came back as a demon and was the final boss in T7 or another game. You know look like Unknown from Tekken Tag tournament. That'd be an awesome idea.



That might work......the problem with resurrecting Jun is.....what happens to Asuka? But if Jun is a demon of some sort, then thats fine.

ugh, Asuka is another one who has lost relevance since her introduction. You'd think she'd be important in Tekken 6, but no....now she's just Lili's rival.


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

I hope he lost to Kazuya. At last.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 26, 2011)

1) In Tekken 6, at least, I think Azazel was supposed to be the creature who's responsible for the devil gene.  So at least that big monster seems relevant.

However, as Jin isnt able to get rid of the devil gene, it might not be true. 

2) I doubt Jin lost to Kazuya. Kazuya's ending is kind of short and uninspired. Not cheesy as I think Heihachi's was. It just shows Kazuya drop Jin to the ground and everyone salutes(then again, that was Jins ending in Tekken 5).

In the story mode, Kazuya fights Lars and they draw and Kazuya leaves. Lars fights Azazel, appears to win, but leaves and he and raven team up against Jin and Alisa. The 'winner' is unclear, but Azazel returns and Jin appears to sacrifice himself to kill it(although I dont think he's dead).

But in Jins 'ending', he fights Kazuya after Azazel and wins, then Heihachi arrives(having just owned Nina) but Jin wins again. Then he leaves as the place crumbles.

I havent seen Lars' ending yet though....


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## masamune1 (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> 1) In Tekken 6, at least, I think Azazel was supposed to be the creature who's responsible for the devil gene.  So at least that big monster seems relevant.
> 
> However, as Jin isnt able to get rid of the devil gene, it might not be true.
> 
> ...



His ending means Jin is defeated, which in turn means everyone views him as a hero and he now has all of Devil in his grasp. It means the status quo has changed again (unlike Jins ending) and he would be rather definitively the main villain as he would be in the perfect position to take over the world- he would have the Mishima Zaibatsu, he would have the misplaced admiration of the world, and he would at last be Devil again which could also be a nice conclusion for Jins Devil story.

Basically, I think its a good set-up for the next game. 

Lars' ending is supposed to be an intro to the story mode. He leads an assault on either G-Corporation or the Mishima Zaibatsu.

I don't think Azazel has anything to do with the Devil Gene, or where it comes from anyway.


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## Bender (Feb 26, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> Meh, you know what I mean. Jin is undefeated.



Jin isn't that broken I mean for cripes sake he got taken down by fodder in prelude to the finale of Tekken 4.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 27, 2011)

> His ending means Jin is defeated, which in turn means everyone views him as a hero and he now has all of Devil in his grasp. It means the status quo has changed again (unlike Jins ending) and he would be rather definitively the main villain as he would be in the perfect position to take over the world- he would have the Mishima Zaibatsu, he would have the misplaced admiration of the world, and he would at last be Devil again which could also be a nice conclusion for Jins Devil story.



Hey, I'm agreeing with you that would be a good way to do things. Kazuya would be relevant, devil Kazuya would return and Jin could go back to being the good guy. 

That just doesn't fit well with the scenario campaign, which I have a feeling will be canon. 




> I don't think Azazel has anything to do with the Devil Gene, or where it comes from anyway.



In scenario campaign, Jin claims Azazel spawned all the devils. That's why he declared war on the whole world, because suffering lures him out. 



> Jin isn't that broken I mean for cripes sake he got taken down by fodder in prelude to the finale of Tekken 4.



Yes, he probably fought waves of guys with guns.....and he apparnetly defeated most of them anyway.

Kazuya looked like he struggled with a handful of them in Tekken 4(considering how heavily he was breathing), and he had the element of surprise.

Edit: On Kazuya raping Jun or not. 

In Tekken Tag:
In Jun's ending, she appears to Jin. 

In Kazuya's ending, Kazuya challenges Jin.

But strangely, It's Devil's ending that has him picking up Jun and flying away........As Devil is 100% evil, am I the only one who finds this creepy?


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## masamune1 (Feb 28, 2011)

I got _Tekken 2_ in the post today and I plan on playing it as soon as.

Before I do, I feel obliged to say this- I read the manual, and Baek really _did_ turn over Marshalls' dojo on behalf of Kazuya- or more accurately the Mishima Real Estate Division. They were trying to get their hands on the property and sent Baek to "enter negotiations on (their) behalf", though they seemed to have an issue with his efficiency- namely, Law found out it was them and him that trashed his place.

So _there._


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## MartialHorror (Feb 28, 2011)

Ah, alright then. You got my there.


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## masamune1 (Feb 28, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> In Tekken Tag:
> In Jun's ending, she appears to Jin.
> 
> In Kazuya's ending, Kazuya challenges Jin.
> ...



Well, Devil is supposed to just be Kazuya's alternate form. Sometimes. So I guess we could assume that it was just Kazuya flying off with her.


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## MartialHorror (Feb 28, 2011)

masamune1 said:


> Well, Devil is supposed to just be Kazuya's alternate form. Sometimes. So I guess we could assume that it was just Kazuya flying off with her.



That's debatable.

Remember in Tekken 4(which came out before TTT), kazuya had to struggle to keep Devil from taking over. Also remember Tekken 2 has him fighting Devil literally in his own ending.

Actually, this brings up another point. In Kazuya's Tekken 4 ending, I just recall Kazuya becoming 'devil' and then vanishing along with the whole syndicate. Is that supposed to be 'devil', then? Because it doesn't fit Kazuya's agenda in Tekken 5-6.


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## masamune1 (Feb 28, 2011)

MartialHorror said:


> That's debatable.
> 
> Remember in Tekken 4(which came out before TTT), kazuya had to struggle to keep Devil from taking over. Also remember Tekken 2 has him fighting Devil literally in his own ending.
> 
> Actually, this brings up another point. In Kazuya's Tekken 4 ending, I just recall Kazuya becoming 'devil' and then vanishing along with the whole syndicate. Is that supposed to be 'devil', then? Because it doesn't fit Kazuya's agenda in Tekken 5-6.



_Tekken 4_ came out _after_ _TTT;_ so I don't know what you are thinking there. 

Yes, it is a bit confusing, but it seems like Devil is both a seperate entity _and_ Kazuya's alter-ego. Occasionally it manifests itself independently but, usually, it and Kazuya share the same form. It probably has/ had a long-term objective of taking Kazuya over completely but, in the short-term, Kazuya ran the show.

Kazuya never had to struggle- he was fine for the whole game until Devil possessed him at the very end....at which point Kazuya spiritually kicked his ass and seized his power for himself. 

What happened at the end of _Tekken 4_ is that Kazuya gained all of Devils power and then used it to destroy the Mishima Zaibatsu compound. Whether this means Hon-Maru or Mshima HQ I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure either way all Kazuya would have then done was go back to G-Corporation and either merge with/ take-over the Zaibatsu or, if he _destroyed_ said Zaibatsu, just content himself with running G-Corp, now _sans_ its greatest rival. It certainly fits with his agenda and he didn't "vanish" at all.  

So, it _is_ debatable, but I think there is a decent case to say that that was just Kazuya in Devil form. If not then, well, that just means Devil might have a softer side to him than we thought. That or another agenda. If it was canon. Or maybe he was influenced by whatever feelings Kazuya may or may not have had for Jun.


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## MartialHorror (Mar 1, 2011)

> Tekken 4 came out after TTT; so I don't know what you are thinking there.



Well, that doesn't necessarily change canon. Plus, as I said, Tekken 2 portrays it as a separate  entity. I figure Devil just tends to be its own entity, but simply magnifies its hosts evilness.



> Yes, it is a bit confusing, but it seems like Devil is both a seperate entity and Kazuya's alter-ego. Occasionally it manifests itself independently but, usually, it and Kazuya share the same form. It probably has/ had a long-term objective of taking Kazuya over completely but, in the short-term, Kazuya ran the show.



I agree. I think however it's obvious Kazuya couldnt control it in Tekken 2(just fighting it caused him to lose), but by Tekken 4......Kazuya dominates it, possible because Kazuya himself has given in to evil(but more probably because it's only half-devil now).




> Kazuya never had to struggle- he was fine for the whole game until Devil possessed him at the very end....at which point Kazuya spiritually kicked his ass and seized his power for himself.



The fact he was possessed was the struggle. The Devil also refers to Kazuya as a separate entity




> What happened at the end of Tekken 4 is that Kazuya gained all of Devils power and then used it to destroy the Mishima Zaibatsu compound. Whether this means Hon-Maru or Mshima HQ I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure either way all Kazuya would have then done was go back to G-Corporation and either merge with/ take-over the Zaibatsu or, if he destroyed said Zaibatsu, just content himself with running G-Corp, now sans its greatest rival. It certainly fits with his agenda and he didn't "vanish" at all.



Hmmm, I presumed that because they say "it vanished without a trace", that means everyone in it did as well. Because if Kazuya was last seen going to that area and somehow came out of it alive, that would be 'a trace'. But I see your point (that ending is creepy).



> So, it is debatable, but I think there is a decent case to say that that was just Kazuya in Devil form. If not then, well, that just means Devil might have a softer side to him than we thought. That or another agenda. If it was canon. Or maybe he was influenced by whatever feelings Kazuya may or may not have had for Jun.



The problem is that the whole point of becoming a 'devil' is when you're being driven by hatred. (Jin only transforms when intending to kill something). Kazuya transforming and having a tender moments just seems..........odd.

I dont think Devil felt anything for Jun. However, I do think he uses Kazuya's feelings of Jun against him.

Edit: lol, if 1/2 of Devil could easily dispatch of Heihachi.....how the hell can anyone beat full Devil? Lol. I do hope they go that route though, although I demand to see "Devil Kazuya VS Devil Jin" at least once...


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