# Healthy Powerscaled CS2 Kimimaro vs SM Naruto



## Rock Lee Prime (Aug 11, 2013)

*Knowledge:* Full

*Mindset:* BL for Kimimaro, IC for Naruto

*Location:* Where Lee and Kimimaro fought

*Distance:* 25ft


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## Icegaze (Aug 11, 2013)

^ what does powerscaled mean
you have to be more specific 
i.e most people here would say kimimaro cannot tank FRS
so when you scale him like you have what can he tank and what cant he tank. 

This prevents frog katas GG or FRS GG or any BS most people would be far to quick to say


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## Rock Lee Prime (Aug 11, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> ^ what does powerscaled mean
> you have to be more specific
> i.e most people here would say kimimaro cannot tank FRS
> so when you scale him like you have what can he tank and what cant he tank.
> ...



I feel that it means that if had he lived to see Part 2, his stats would have grown exponentially. He'd be Harder, better, faster, stronger.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 11, 2013)

Sage Mode Naruto stomps. Faster than CS2 Kimimaro, stronger, can tank everything Kimimaro can dish out, has attacks that can damage Juubito and Kurama...


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## Icegaze (Aug 11, 2013)

@rock lee prime
you see what i mean now right
and annoyingly enough i cant even disagree with him. Because again there is no way to know so please be specific and say what kimimaro can or cant tank. Otherwise there is no point to this thread
might as well do powerscaled haku vs minato..thats the equivalent to what you are doing


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## Rock Lee Prime (Aug 11, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> @rock lee prime
> you see what i mean now right
> and annoyingly enough i cant even disagree with him. Because again there is no way to know so please be specific and say what kimimaro can or cant tank. Otherwise there is no point to this thread
> might as well do powerscaled haku vs minato..thats the equivalent to what you are doing



This will help you understand powerscaling better good sir  It's explained far better than I ever could explain it.


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## Icegaze (Aug 11, 2013)

thanks for the link, however it isnt for me i ask. 
Till you become more specific the likes of SSMan 12 will have no issues saying Sm naruto stop from now and forever and he wont be wrong.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 11, 2013)

CS2 Kimimaro is essentially a mini-SM Mode, as that is Orochimaru's Natural Energy in a seal.

With that being said, no one has ever powerscaled Kimimaro to SM Naruto's level. During Pein's invasion, the entire leaf military fell back as it was commonly understood that they would only get in the way of a Sage.

Naruto is a perfect Sage, his strength and power output is the greatest of all current Sage Mode users. He has access to 6 boss frogs, 2 of which are sages themselves. CS2 Kimimaro appeared in Part 2, and he was impressive as he ripped through the ranks of the Samurai. But that was predictable, the Samurai are close quarter types only- something that Kimimaro excelled at greatly. Had he been facing companies of mid-long range ninja, the outcome might have been different. 

Naruto blitzes him with FRS.


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## ueharakk (Aug 11, 2013)

A powerscaled healthy kimimaro would only be around hebi sasuke's level.

SM Naruto stomps him.


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Yeah, even the highest possible spot I could hold Kimimaro at would put him below Naruto by a good margin.

Hebi Sasuke~Kimimaro < Mangeyou Sasuke~Summit Arc Naruto < Current Sage Naruto.


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## Punished Pathos (Aug 11, 2013)

Kimimaro stomps.


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## Ƶero (Aug 11, 2013)

Sage Naruto murderstomps him. He just made the god damn Juubito bleed with his Rasengan. Kimimaro gets turned into dust.


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## iJutsu (Aug 11, 2013)

Curse seal is just a boost in power. It doesn't actually give him any sage abilities. It also comes from an inferior sage mode user, so Kimi can never actually reach anywhere near SM Naruto's level.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Aug 11, 2013)

SM Naruto takes this in a stomp. I never really considered Kimmimaro anything above a low kage at most.


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## Chad (Aug 11, 2013)

Kimimaro by hype should be around Base Naruto during Immortals Arc.

EDIT: If we want to take the text literally, then Kimimaro should be at Jiraiya's level according to Kabuto.


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## EnergySage (Aug 11, 2013)

@Bluenote

Where was Kimimaro ever compared to Jiraiya?


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## Chad (Aug 12, 2013)

Kabuto said that "no one can stop a Healthy Kimimaro". That could mean no one alive could beat him. Which includes Jiraiya, base Jiraiya at least to Kabuto's manga knowledge. Which is why I said if we take the text literal. I already know that it's highly unrealistic to compare Kimimaro to Jiraiya, so I was just saiyan.


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## Veracity (Aug 12, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> Kabuto said that "no one can stop a Healthy Kimimaro". That could mean no one alive could beat him. Which includes Jiraiya, base Jiraiya at least to Kabuto's manga knowledge. Which is why I said if we take the text literal. I already know that it's highly unrealistic to compare Kimimaro to Jiraiya, so I was just saiyan.



That also includes a bunch of people like : Itachi-Tsunade-Onnoki-Ay-Mei, which all demolish Kimmi with ease.


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## Chad (Aug 12, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> That also includes a bunch of people like : Itachi-Tsunade-Onnoki-Ay-Mei, which all demolish Kimmi with ease.



 Do you honestly believe that Mei can beat Kimimaro


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## EnergySage (Aug 12, 2013)

Yea. Mei beats Kimimaro, fairly easily


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## Veracity (Aug 12, 2013)

Bluenote said:


> Do you honestly believe that Mei can beat Kimimaro



Her acid Mist can melt Sussano so yeah.


Her suitors were also intercepting Madara and overwhelming his Katons, so yes again.


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## Rocky (Aug 12, 2013)

EnergySage said:


> Yea. Mei beats Kimimaro, fairly easily



Well there's the Bone Forest, which presents a problem for someone that doesn't specialize in speed even slightly.


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## Chad (Aug 12, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Her acid Mist can melt Sussano so yeah.
> 
> 
> Her suitors were also intercepting Madara and overwhelming his Katons, so yes again.



Kimimaro can control the rate that his cells reproduce. From feats, the melting from the acidic mist isn't very fast, so wounds from the mist get instantly patched. 

Suiton doesn't help against Sawarabi no Mae.


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## EnergySage (Aug 12, 2013)

I think it's a fair fallacy to say that Bone Forest kills anyone who isn't a speed specialist. Kimimaro is a high Jonin level, but he isn't beating Kage level opponents. He is capable of winning circumstantially, but I don't think he get's past a supersized Suiryudan, followed by lava. Corrosive damage is going to destroy him...

As far as thread topic, SM Naruto takes this. His strength in SM is enough to break Kimimaro bones, IMO



Bluenote said:


> Kimimaro can control the rate that his cells reproduce. From feats, the melting from the acidic mist isn't very fast, so wounds from the mist get instantly patched.
> 
> Suiton doesn't help against Sawarabi no Mae.



Kimimaro doesn't have Byakugo level regeneration. He has solid regeneration, but not like Tsunade. The mist was melting through Susanoo fairly quickly. Kimimaro would breathe it in, even on accident. Sasuke only survived due to having a big chakra barrier in between. Kimimaro can't harden organs, and his insides would be quickly melted by the acid mist


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## Chad (Aug 12, 2013)

Ok, Mei vs Kimi is for another thread.

OT: Naruto wins swiftly.


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## PinkiePool (Aug 12, 2013)

Go ahead, call the cops

Call Orochimaru-sama
Call Kabuto
Call Kimimaro's mama

They cant unrape him


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

Kimimaro is the new Itachi-Minato of the forum, please keep the wanking 

Kimimaro wasn't anywhere near hebi Sasuke level. Come at me.


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## Icegaze (Aug 12, 2013)

Mei beats kimimaro as easily as he beats her. The second he knows all she does is spam ninjutsu from far he is going to reply with bone forest and take the match
ps: Mei suiton cant do jack shit to kimimaro, suiton havent even damaged the likes of zabuza. kimimaro is so so so far more durable. So suiton isnt doing anything
lava is easy to dodge, karin dodged it. Acid mist is the biggest problem for kimimaro. 
kimimaro does bone forest mei has no defense, have you all seen the AoE of that jutsu??? even if he doesnt impale her she wont know about the surprise attack which kills her. 

again this is not to say kimi is kage level, its saying he has the tools to fight and win because he is well suited to fight her. 

On topic: naruto trolls any power scaled kimi with FRS so why do this thread.

people on NF are so literal its silly and annoying, being jounin or chunin doesnt mean you cant beat a kage if you are well suited to fight them 
same way Gai using gates pawned kisame someone of his level because gai is well suited to fighting kisame. 

Yet even if you were stronger than gai, if you fight relying on ninjutsu and using chakra then kisame could beat you. 

same goes for how sasori can pawn kankuro with the least amount of effort. 

or how madara can babyshake itachi without breaking a sweat, not only is he stronger he is perfectly suited to fight itachi. 

Remember this people, it is also about how well suited you are to fight a person. 

Minato can beat Ei with more ease than say killer bee despite killer bee having so so much more fire power. its all over the manga, and it is the reason why onoki was the only one who could fight with Muu. Not because he was the strongest but because he was the best suited to fight Muu


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## Joakim3 (Aug 12, 2013)

Yeah by hype a healthy Kimi is around Hebi's Sasuke's level if you consider how they both handles Jugo and his statements of each

....or in lamens terms Hebi Sasuke is not beating SM Naruto, the same goes for Kimi


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## Ghost (Aug 12, 2013)

Dat Kimimaro wank. If two shinobis of chuunin level can react to his bone forest, a kage won't have any problems. 

Hebi Sasuke would rapestomp Kimimaro.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

saikyou said:


> Dat Kimimaro wank. If two shinobis of chuunin level can react to his bone forest, a kage won't have any problems.
> 
> Hebi Sasuke would rapestomp Kimimaro.



Hebi Sasuke is barely Kimimaro's level because Juugo said that Sasuke was the only person aside Kimimaro that he had ever seen to use partial transformations.


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## Icegaze (Aug 12, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Hebi Sasuke is barely Kimimaro's level because Juugo said that Sasuke was the only person aside Kimimaro that he had ever seen to use partial transformations.



wait wooot? i really thought you would have been like hebi sasuke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kimimaro that seems to be what you have been saying so far. Or did i read wrong. 

also @saikyou  gaara having the ability to levitate doesnt suddenly mean Mei can as well. gaara reacted fine, we all agree. No one is saying mei cant react, however where is she going?? a bone will eventually appear under her forcing her to jump. What do you think she would land on when she finally lands?? 

Its some people way of thinking thats just stupid. A genin being able to do something because of their ability doesnt suddenly mean anyone ranked higher can do it. 

neji is a genin and can use jukken does that mean every jounin can? 

Mei reacting to bone forest has never been in question, she reacted to birth of trees. It didnt save her though did it, she needed gaara sand to levitate. Point is if she jumps she has to land at some point, her landing would kill her. She cannot just keep running away from an attack that covered an entire forest when kimi was at death door. 
Healthy he could certainly create a larger bone forest. Same way healthy itachi can maintain susanoo longer.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

I was being ironic, maybe I should be more obvious for you.

Hebi Sasuke is leagues above Kimimaro who only relies on his Kekkai Genkai and the cursed seal.

Hebi Sasuke without using the cursed seal could already defeat Kimimaro.


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## Baroxio (Aug 12, 2013)

Forget powerscaling, why not just use feats? 

Kimimaro either tanked or dodged a FRS from a KCM Naruto clone and either beat or outlasted it.

As such, there's isn't much Naruto can really do to him. Sage punches and Frog Kata get tanked, FRS can be dodged, and Rasengans would be difficult to land with Dance of the Pines.

Only some variaton of Chou Oodama Rasengan would work due to it's size, but that move is sorely lacking in actual feats. The complete barrage in Naruto's mind barely did all that much damage to the Kyuubi, so I'm not sure how difficult it would be for Kimimaro to tank it, especially since a lot of it's damage would be wasted on his outer bones (such as in Dance of the Pines), let alone his inner bone layer. Kyuubi's skin shouldn't be that much more durable when Gyuuki can get cut up by pretty much anything.

As for Hebi Sasuke, Sasuke can react to Kimimaro's attacks and dodge them all day, but anything short of motherflipping Kirin isn't putting Kimimaro down.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Forget powerscaling, why not just use feats?
> 
> Kimimaro either tanked or dodged a FRS from a KCM Naruto clone and either beat or outlasted it.



Or he was an Edo zombie and he was destroyed by it and later regenerated 



Baroxio said:


> As for Hebi Sasuke, Sasuke can react to Kimimaro's attacks and dodge them all day, but anything short of motherflipping Kirin isn't putting Kimimaro down.



False, is there a feat that proves that even Juubi's bijuu dama can injure Kimimaro? No, then he can't be injured period.


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## Baroxio (Aug 12, 2013)

Except you know, if he was destroyed by it and regenerated he would have been sealed, duh. 

And what does Juubi's Bijuudama have to do with Sasuke not having anything strong enough to put Kimimaro down bar Kirin? We know his Raiton infused blade is roughly equivalent to the Samurai Chakra Flow, and Kimimaro's bones easily withstood that. Add in Kimimaro's regenerative ability and Sasuke is most certainly going to need Kirin.

Also, serious question, what happened to all of the Naruto clones in the various battlefields? Were they all defeated or did they just win their battles and poof on out?


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Except you know, if he was destroyed by it and regenerated he would have been sealed, duh.



You mean like when Darui cut Kinkkaku's arm or like when Mifune cut Hanzou?

Being destroyed and being sealed are 2 different things, if there were 3 ninjas with the power to seal edos and they were busy sealing some other edo...



Baroxio said:


> And what does Juubi's Bijuudama have to do with Sasuke not having anything strong enough to put Kimimaro down bar Kirin? We know his Raiton infused blade is roughly equivalent to the Samurai Chakra Flow, and Kimimaro's bones easily withstood that. Add in Kimimaro's regenerative ability and Sasuke is most certainly going to need Kirin.



Random samurai's "raiton" sword = Sasuke's raiton blade 
Nice logic 

The same way, Yamoto's monkuton = Hashirama's monkuton 



Baroxio said:


> Also, serious question, what happened to all of the Naruto clones in the various battlefields? Were they all defeated or did they just win their battles and poof on out?



Each clone has a fraction of the original's power. 100 KN0 means that each of them have only 1/100 of KN0's power.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 12, 2013)

I'm thinking Bone Forest takes this.


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## Punished Pathos (Aug 12, 2013)

lol Saiyaman negs me. 

I'm entitled to my own opinions here.

Kimimaro was basically an Itachi esque character.  (where are the Kimimaro fanboys such as Revy )


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## Veracity (Aug 12, 2013)

Does someone just say Kimmi tanked FRS? Lol that's some funny shit.


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## Punished Pathos (Aug 12, 2013)

Kimimaro dodged it in the anime but lolcanon ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) will shut me down


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 12, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> You mean like when Darui cut Kinkkaku's arm or like when Mifune cut Hanzou?



Neither of their injuries is even comparable to the destruction FRS is supposed to cause. No one who takes an FRS, if it works like it is supposed to, would be in any condition to fight back for quite some time as the regeneration occurs. Plenty of time to seal, the way sealing was done across every battlefield only after the Edo took serious damage. Oh, and Darui didn't even have a sealer with him when he was fighting Kinkaku and Ginkaku so GTFO.

Kimimaro without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets together lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone with the same sealers who sealed Hanzo present. And lasted against the entire samurai army for a day.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Neither of their injuries is even comparable to the destruction FRS is supposed to cause. No one who takes an FRS, if it works like it is supposed to, would be in any condition to fight back for quite some time as the regeneration occurs. Plenty of time to seal, the way sealing was done across every battlefield only after the Edo took serious damage. Oh, and Darui didn't even have a sealer with him when he was fighting Kinkaku and Ginkaku so GTFO.
> 
> Kimimaro without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets together lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone with the same sealers who sealed Hanzo present. And lasted against the entire samurai army for a day.



Being an Edo is a great advantage, isn't it?

Also the FRS is a 2 edge attack. It may turn Kimimaro into dust, but they can't seal dust, can they?

And they can't get near him because of the explosion.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 12, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Being an Edo is a great advantage, isn't it?
> 
> Also the FRS is a 2 edge attack. It may turn Kimimaro into dust, but they can't seal dust, can they?
> 
> And they can't get near him because of the explosion.



They planned on sealing the Sandaime Raikage after FRS so your point is invalid. The Gokage planned on sealing Madara after their combination attack which was supposed to end by destroying him with Jinton, so your point is invalid. You can seal people destroyed with massive AOE attacks. 

Being an Edo means unlimited stamina and regeneration but it doesn't increase combat skill or jutsu. If it was that huge a boost, no one would have been able to seal any of the Edos.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> They planned on sealing the Sandaime Raikage after FRS so your point is invalid. The Gokage planned on sealing Madara after their combination attack which was supposed to end by destroying him with Jinton, so your point is invalid. You can seal people destroyed with massive AOE attacks.
> 
> Being an Edo means unlimited stamina and regeneration but it doesn't increase combat skill or jutsu. If it was that huge a boost, no one would have been able to seal any of the Edos.



Raikage wasn't turned to dust by the FRS, unlike the Raikage.

Also you know what happened? Couldn't Naruto have been tricked by Chiyo like blak Zetsu did so he throw his FRS into the sky?

An off panel feat that may have not happened isn't a great point.


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## Punished Pathos (Aug 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Neither of their injuries is even comparable to the destruction FRS is supposed to cause. No one who takes an FRS, if it works like it is supposed to, would be in any condition to fight back for quite some time as the regeneration occurs. Plenty of time to seal, the way sealing was done across every battlefield only after the Edo took serious damage. Oh, and Darui didn't even have a sealer with him when he was fighting Kinkaku and Ginkaku so GTFO.
> 
> Kimimaro without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets together lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone with the same sealers who sealed Hanzo present. And lasted against the entire samurai army for a day.



Kimimaro takes all of the credit. He is above Kakashi level.
In the anime, Kimimaro dodged the FRS


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Aug 12, 2013)

Rock Lee Prime said:


> *Knowledge:* Full
> 
> *Mindset:* BL for Kimimaro, IC for Naruto
> 
> ...



Without raiton or amaterasu, naruto isnot going to get through his dense bone defense... While kimimaro can easily pierce SM naruto with his dense bone weapons.

And with Kimimaro is at full health and power using CS2, he can easily compete against SM naruto not to mention possibly won too. However, in the end, naruto cna summon Ma and Pa to use frog Song Genjutsu to paralyze Kimimaro and beat him while he is unconscious.

Sage mode naruto WINS!


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 12, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Raikage wasn't turned to dust by the FRS, unlike the Raikage.
> 
> Also you know what happened? Couldn't Naruto have been tricked by Chiyo like blak Zetsu did so he throw his FRS into the sky?
> 
> An off panel feat that may have not happened isn't a great point.



Exactly, the Raikage tanked the FRS. 

I don't know what happened. What I do know is that Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone couldn't take out Chiyo without her puppets and Kimimaro without his Juin and that they were the only shinobi who were still fighting by their own power (besides Madara) to not be sealed after a day of fighting the army of samurai. Who had sealers. 

I never said Kimimaro dodged or tanked the FRS although I think it may be possible for him to do the former, and at least survive if hit.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Exactly, the Raikage tanked the FRS.
> 
> I don't know what happened. What I do know is that Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone couldn't take out Chiyo without her puppets and Kimimaro without his Juin and that they were the only shinobi who were still fighting by their own power (besides Madara) to not be sealed after a day of fighting the army of samurai. Who had sealers.
> 
> I never said Kimimaro dodged or tanked the FRS although I think it may be possible for him to do the former, and at least survive if hit.



You are forgetting at least another Edo and an army of Zetsus


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 12, 2013)

Bone Forest GG


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Aug 12, 2013)

Powerscaled Kimimaro is probably mid-tier Akatsuki level with Sasori and Kakuzu

That being said, SM Naruto defeated Pain, 2 Kages, and 50% Yin Kurama and is challenging Juubito

Kimimaro is severely outclassed here


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Bone Forest GG


You do realize Naruto can _tank that_, right? Not to mention destroy it with FRS? Along with Kimimaro inside it?

You honestly expect SM Naruto to lose to Kimimaro?


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do realize Naruto can _tank that_, right? Not to mention destroy it with FRS? Along with Kimimaro inside it?
> 
> You honestly expect SM Naruto to lose to Kimimaro?



Oh don't tell me you're comparing chakra rods to bone spires, cause no dice. Kimi would impale him with the Bone Spires then take off his head.


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## Punished Pathos (Aug 12, 2013)

Mangeykou Byakugan said:


> Powerscaled Kimimaro is probably mid-tier Akatsuki level with Sasori and Kakuzu
> 
> That being said, SM Naruto defeated Pain, 2 Kages, and 50% Yin Kurama and is challenging Juubito
> 
> Kimimaro is severely outclassed here



Rinnegan Obito could have one shotted Naruto with Kamui warp several times.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Oh don't tell me you're comparing chakra rods to bone spires, cause no dice. Kimi would impale him with the Bone Spires then take off his head.


Chakra Rods are three times harder and sharper than steel (took three scalpels just to wear down a receiver), materialization of Madara's will, and can inject chakra into whoever they pierce? Yeah, they're sharper and stronger than Kimimaro's bones which even pre-Timeskip Gaara could defend with his sand. 

Naruto can comfortably tank the bone spikes all day without eve ngetting damaged.


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## ChaddyMan1 (Aug 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Chakra Rods are three times harder and sharper than steel (took three scalpels just to wear down a receiver), materialization of Madara's will, and can inject chakra into whoever they pierce? Yeah, they're sharper and stronger than Kimimaro's bones which even pre-Timeskip Gaara could defend with his sand.
> 
> Naruto can comfortably tank the bone spikes all day without eve ngetting damaged.



But that's not to say that they won't pierce Naruto as well. It's not as if it needs to be 3 times stronger in order to harm Naruto. He's gonna get impaled either way then get decapitated.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 12, 2013)

1. Sage Naruto isn't tanking Shikkotsumyaku; he wouldn't even tank fodder samurai chakra blades that failed to cut all the way through Shikkotsumyaku. Sage Naruto wouldn't even tank kunai in the right hands.

2. Kimimaro can easily dodge FRS if there is enough distance; the guy's speed is in the same ballpark as post-timeskip Sasuke, Kakashi, and Deidara. He's also extremely agile and proficient in physical combat.

3. Sage Naruto can very easily just dodge Sawarabi no Mai.

4. Pain's chakra rods are not anywhere near as thick as the structures produced during Sawarabi no Mai. It's also doubtful that they are as hard as steel, but I haven't seen a good durability test for them so far.



There is really nothing stopping Sage Naruto from running up, hitting Kimimaro with Chou Oodama Rasengan, and one-shotting him.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> But that's not to say that they won't pierce Naruto as well. It's not as if it needs to be 3 times stronger in order to harm Naruto. He's gonna get impaled either way then get decapitated.


Naruto can comfortably tank it considering chakra rods and dropping from a high height onto bone spikes couldn't hurt him. Kimimaro's bones are twice as strong as steel, Naruto took something three times as strong. And again, _pre-Timeskip Gaara's_ sand could tank the bones which is far weaker than Senjutsu Naruto's durability.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto can comfortably tank it considering chakra rods and dropping from a high height onto bone spikes couldn't hurt him. Kimimaro's bones are twice as strong as steel, Naruto took something three times as strong. And again, _pre-Timeskip Gaara's_ sand could tank the bones which is far weaker than Senjutsu Naruto's durability.



1. Naruto fell onto jagged rocks, not bone spikes, but I'll assume that was a typo.

2. There is no evidence for Pain's chakra rods being three times harder than steel.

3. Kimimaro's bones are AS HARD AS steel, not twice as hard.

4. Naruto isn't tanking Sawarabi no Mai and it would be stupid to even attempt that.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> 1. Sage Naruto isn't tanking Shikkotsumyaku; he wouldn't even tank fodder samurai chakra blades that failed to cut all the way through Shikkotsumyaku. Sage Naruto wouldn't even tank kunai in the right hands.


A kunai isn't damaging Sage Mode Naruto. Its laughable, and downplaying to claim that. Naruto can slam face first into a bed of spikes and come out uninjured in Sage Mode during his first duration. Chakra Rods which are three-times stronger than steel shatter on his hands. Shikotsumyaku isn't doing ANYTHING to Sage Mode Naruto due to his body's durability.


> 2. Kimimaro can easily dodge FRS if there is enough distance; the guy's speed is in the same ballpark as post-timeskip Sasuke, Kakashi, and Deidara. He's also extremely agile and proficient in physical combat.


Only two people've shown the speed to react and dodge the FRS: Sandaime Raikage (whose speed is directly compared to his son) and Pain who outperformed Kakashi in pure speed. Kimimaro isn't dodging it especially if he had trouble with pre-Timeskip fighters from feats.



> 4. Pain's chakra rods are not anywhere near as thick as the structures produced during Sawarabi no Mai. It's also doubtful that they are as hard as steel, but I haven't seen a good durability test for them so far.


Nagato's chakra rods are so sharp and durable, it required three scalpels (incredibly sharp steel blades) just to cut through a tiny receiver, and all three blades were worn down first. That's better than what we've seen Kimimaro's bones do.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 12, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> 1. Naruto fell onto jagged rocks, not bone spikes, but I'll assume that was a typo.


Extremely sharp jagged rock spikes from an obscene height without getting damaged.


> 2. There is no evidence for Pain's chakra rods being three times harder than steel.


Three steel scalpels are needed just to shave off that chakra rod, all three are worn down.


> 3. Kimimaro's bones are AS HARD AS steel, not twice as hard.


Which means they aren't getting through Naruto's skin.


> 4. Naruto isn't tanking Sawarabi no Mai and it would be stupid to even attempt that.


Where's the evidence that Sawarabi no Mai is sharper or more durable than the other bones Kimimaro uses?


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## Joakim3 (Aug 12, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Extremely sharp jagged rock spikes from an obscene height without getting damaged.



Something kimimaro could replicate?



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Three steel scalpels are needed just to shave off that chakra rod, all three are worn down.
> 
> Which means they aren't getting through Naruto's skin.



Kimimaro bones are substantially more durable than your average "metal" feat wise hell there more durable then Nagato's & Obito's chakra rods

He'll bade Kimi's bones blocked Raiton flow... If it was CS1 or CS2 they would simply bounce off 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Where's the evidence that Sawarabi no Mai is sharper or more durable than the other bones Kimimaro uses?



_Sawarabi no Mai_, hardness would arguably Kimimaro's choosing. if assume he'd be able to control he density just as he can his own bones


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## UchihaX28 (Aug 12, 2013)

SM Naruto. 

 Naruto will dodge CS2 Kimimaro while attacking him using the Frog Kata Style. Kimimaro is really out of his league.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 12, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> You are forgetting at least another Edo and an army of Zetsus



Hanzo was taken out at the very beginning and there were no Zetsus present.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto can comfortably tank it considering chakra rods.



Look closely. 

was that much smaller

Naruto didn't block the chakra rod. He swung at it, hit it from the sides, and broke it. 

This is what happened when he was hit by a chakra rod. 

was that much smaller

It pierced him.


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## Icegaze (Aug 12, 2013)

Naruto still wins via FRS I don't believe any power scaling should let kimi survive such
Even if he does he Won't b able to fight anymore


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## UchihaX28 (Aug 12, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Hanzo was taken out at the very beginning and there were no Zetsus present.
> 
> 
> Look closely.
> ...



 Not paying attention.

 Who the heck said Naruto could tank the chakra rods when Naruto was pinned down by them by Deva Pain?


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 12, 2013)

Icegaze said:


> Naruto still wins via FRS I don't believe any power scaling should let kimi survive such
> Even if he does he Won't b able to fight anymore



I think that a healthy Kimimaro using Juin Ni could survive it, but I propose he would be weakened enough to be killed at that point by a sage powered Oodama Rasengan. However, I agree that despite my somewhat outlier view of Kimimaro as a low-mid Kage level ninja, current sage Naruto starting in sage mode is, by my estimation, an elite Kage level ninja. He would win easily.


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## Jak N Blak (Aug 12, 2013)

The fuck. BASE NARUTO alone is too much for Kimi.


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## Trojan (Aug 12, 2013)

Naruto stomps.


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## ueharakk (Aug 12, 2013)

Kimimaro didn't tank FRS, not even sandaime raikage or Kurama could legit 'tank' FRS, and the one time someone does survive the technique, he gets a chapter dedicated to that particular feat.

Considering Chiyo was still alive and fighting yet obviously can't tank a FRS and the fact that people like pain can dodge FRS at mid distance, Kimimaro most likely dodged the technique.  He could even have had chiyo help him dodge like how she was maneuvering Sakura.


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 12, 2013)

ChaddyMan1 said:


> Oh don't tell me you're comparing chakra rods to bone spires, cause no dice. Kimi would impale him with the Bone Spires then take off his head.



Um, right, what exactly is stopping Sage Naruto from sensing the potential attack long before it happens and leaping hundreds of meters in the air to avoid it? Or using Shadow Clones as footholds to prevent the bones from reaching him?

Besides, Sage Jiraiya survived unharmed the Yak's head-on charge that obliterated a shit-ton of concrete from the resulting force, that feat is easily city-block, if not multi-city block level. I really doubt Kimimaro's hard-as-steel bones are getting through such durability.



Pathos Grim said:


> Kimimaro takes all of the credit. He is above Kakashi level.
> In the anime, Kimimaro dodged the FRS



Who gives a shit about what he did in the anime? Anime is non-canon and thus is totally irrelevant in the Battledome, unless otherwise specified.

Yeah, in the anime, Tailed Beast Bombs from V2 Bee are barely comparable to explosive tags. Deva Pain can also apparently cause a flood of water to emerge from the ground just by punching it. Sorry, but even if anime were remotely viable as a source of information, there's just a ton of stuff that happens that flat-out contradicts manga feats. Your argument holds no water.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Hanzo was taken out at the very beginning and there were no Zetsus present.



The Zetsus arrived later. And Naruto's clone probably vanished before using the FRS as It wasn't there for the time Kabuto cancelled the jutsu:
smoke bombs


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## Panther (Aug 13, 2013)

wtf is this shit ? SM Naruto with his eye's closed would wipe the floor with Kimi. Kimimaro was getting pressured by pre-time skip Gaara and lee, and by the authors portrayel he should be around Hebi Sasuke level which is still a tier or two below current SM Naruto. 

Kimimaro also has neither shown any on panel speed feats to dodge a FRS or the durability to tank it. If Kimi did dodge or tank RM Naruto's FRS then kishi would have shown us a panel of Naruto being shocked like he did against Sandaime Raikage when his FRS was tanked. Instead kishi showed us a panel of the FRS wind dome where Kimi and Chiyo where standing and Inoichi commenting on how Unit 5 has taken control of their battle 

Even Base Naruto would destroy Kimimaro and his Bone forest with Chou Odama Rasengan barrage 

The only reason why i think kishi showed Kimi and Chiyo stil being free, is to show Itachi as a saviour and not make his effort look useless since all edo were already sealed besides Dan who was already trapped inside the barrier.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> The Zetsus arrived later. And Naruto's clone probably vanished before using the FRS as It wasn't there for the time Kabuto cancelled the jutsu:
> Chou Odama Rasengan barrage



You are just being dishonest now. Look at the page you directed me to: there is not a single Zetsu there. And why would Naruto's clone vanish before even throwing the FRS? That makes no sense. He didn't vanish on the other battle fields until he confronted Obito because he was busy cleaning them up. You just made that up to suit your point.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> You are just being dishonest now. Look at the page you directed me to: there is not a single Zetsu there. And why would Naruto's clone vanish before even throwing the FRS? That makes no sense. He didn't vanish on the other battle fields until he confronted Obito because he was busy cleaning them up. You just made that up to suit your point.



1- I haven't posted a page trying to prove that there were Zetsus, I have guessed that you were abl to look for it for yourself.

2- Naruto was about to fight Tobi and the Jinchuurukis, moment when I guess he cancelled all the clones.

You want me to make a point when you haven't show any scan of Kimimaro dodging nor tanking the FRS? Hypocrisy


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> 1- I haven't posted a page trying to prove that there were Zetsus, I have guessed that you were abl to look for it for yourself.
> 
> 2- Naruto was about to fight Tobi and the Jinchuurukis, moment when I guess he cancelled all the clones.
> 
> You want me to make a point when you haven't show any scan of Kimimaro dodging nor tanking the FRS? Hypocrisy



1. Why did you post a page from chapter 589 then? For the record, no Zetsus were ever shown.

2. Yes, that is what I said.

I never said he dodged or tanked the FRS. All I said was that he without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone and survived the samurais for over a day, despite sealers being present.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> 1. Why did you post a page from chapter 589 then? For the record, no Zetsus were ever shown.



To show you that the Naruto clone was gone for the time Kabuto cancelled the jutsu. And I'll re read the saga to see fi I can see the picture where the Zetsus are seen near the samurais.



SubtleObscurantist said:


> 2. Yes, that is what I said.
> 
> I never said he dodged or tanked the FRS. All I said was that he without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone and survived the samurais for over a day, despite sealers being present.



A day?

Naruto arrived to where the samurais where a few minutes before arriving to where Tob was and cancelling the clones. Kimimaro and Chiyo survived against Naruto's clone for a few minutes at very most.


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## Jackashflash (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> 1. Why did you post a page from chapter 589 then? For the record, no Zetsus were ever shown.
> 
> 2. Yes, that is what I said.
> 
> I never said he dodged or tanked the FRS. All I said was that he without his Juin and Chiyo without her puppets lasted against Mifune and a KCM Naruto clone and survived the samurais for over a day, despite sealers being present.



They lasted a day, because they were simply last to get be shown.



ATastyMuffin said:


> Who gives a shit about what he did in the anime? Anime is non-canon and thus is totally irrelevant in the Battledome, unless otherwise specified.
> 
> Yeah, in the anime, Tailed Beast Bombs from V2 Bee are barely comparable to explosive tags. Deva Pain can also apparently cause a flood of water to emerge from the ground just by punching it. Sorry, but even if anime were remotely viable as a source of information, there's just a ton of stuff that happens that flat-out contradicts manga feats. Your argument holds no water.




None of that contradicts the manga.
Why do people who stick to the manga pretend their source is so much superior?


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

Jackashflash said:


> They lasted a day, because they were simply last to get be shown.
> 
> None of that contradicts the manga.
> Why do people who stick to the manga pretend their source is so much superior?



No. Naruto's clone arrived to where the samurais were in the chapter 559. Naruto arrived to where Tobi was and cancelled the clones in the chapter 563. In that time Madara was resurrected, he fought the army and the Kages were sent to fight him. That couldn't last a day 

Because manga is the main canon source, and all the rest are at most secondary sources. IN case the contradict each other the manga stands.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> A day?
> 
> Naruto arrived to where the samurais where a few minutes before arriving to where Tob was and cancelling the clones. Kimimaro and Chiyo survived against Naruto's clone for a few minutes at very most.



A few minutes? It was four chapters. Long enough for Naruto to start turning the tide of the battlefield. Long enough after that for Madara to show up, decimate Gaara's division, and then start facing the Gokage after that. 

And it wasn't just the clone. Mifune as well. And against him and the samurai they survived after Hanzo was taken out until nightfall. Then the entire next day into the night when Edo Tensei was released.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> A few minutes? It was four chapters. Long enough for Naruto to start turning the tide of the battlefield. Long enough after that for Madara to show up, decimate Gaara's division, and then start facing the Gokage after that.
> 
> And it wasn't just the clone. Mifune as well. And against him and the samurai they survived after Hanzo was taken out until nightfall. Then the entire next day into the night when Edo Tensei was released.



Things that happened in a single battlefield (If you count what happen in each battle simultaneously you are cheating ):
Madara resurrects. (2 minutes)
He pawns some shinobis. (5 minutes at most)
Gaara, Oonoki and Naruto try to stop him. (1 minute at most)
He summons the meteors and Oonoki tries to stop them (10 minutes at most)
Raikage and Tsunade decide to go there the moment the meteor hits the ground and prepare (5 minutes at most)
The Kages arrive and fight Madara (5 minutes)
Naruto undoes the clones (2 minutes)

In my opinion those are the times, and the result is 30 minutes 

Not a day (24 hours). And Mifune was there, but he was exhausted after fighting Hanzou in the typical samurai fight (which is short but requires lots of concentration and effort).


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 13, 2013)

Why is this 5 pages is Kimmimaro that overrated on the forums

I don't care how much you powerscale him, Kimmimaro aim got shit on a perfect Senjutsu user, he can't hit him , he can't defend himself from his attacks , his best asset is his CQC abilites and that will be taken away from him due to Frog Kata,and Sensing, shit Frog Song FRS combo will end it

Let's just close this thread


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Things that happened in a single battlefield (If you count what happen in each battle simultaneously you are cheating ):
> Madara resurrects. (2 minutes)
> He pawns some shinobis. (5 minutes at most)
> Gaara, Oonoki and Naruto try to stop him. (1 minute at most)
> ...



Naruto turned the tide of the battlefields before the sensors even noticed Madara. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever said Naruto's clone was there for over a day. I said Kimimaro and Chiyo fought for over a day. Naruto was probably only there for yeah, less than an hour. Plenty of time if Kimimaro was as weak as you said since he didn't have his Juin and Chiyo didn't have her puppets.

Mifune was not breathing hard and did not look exhausted after fighting Hanzo. We know samurai use chakra and he wasn't seen using any in that fight. There would be no reason for him to be tired. Plus, he had rest over the first night since there were no Zetsus around so there would have been no copies infiltrating their ranks.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 13, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Naruto turned the tide of the battlefields before the sensors even noticed Madara. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever said Naruto's clone was there for over a day. I said Kimimaro and Chiyo fought for over a day. Naruto was probably only there for yeah, less than an hour. Plenty of time if Kimimaro was as weak as you said since he didn't have his Juin and Chiyo didn't have her puppets.
> 
> Mifune was not breathing hard and did not look exhausted after fighting Hanzo. We know samurai use chakra and he wasn't seen using any in that fight. There would be no reason for him to be tired. Plus, he had rest over the first night since there were no Zetsus around so there would have been no copies infiltrating their ranks.



Lee didn't seem to use chakra against Kimimaro 
I meant that chakra is normally invisible.

Also he mustn't look half dead to be exhausted.

Also Kimimaro is just jounin level, but an Edo Jounin level character with the help of another high jounin level-almost kage candidate level Edo  helping him that is even using samurais as puppets (Naruto wouldn't injure the samurais) is troublesome.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Aug 13, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> Lee didn't seem to use chakra against Kimimaro
> I meant that chakra is normally invisible.
> 
> Also he mustn't look half dead to be exhausted.
> ...



As you said, Lee was post operation. And he used the first gate. Oh and he probably had less stamina back then compared to the leader of the samurai. Oh, and he was visibly exhausted.

Whenever anyone's exhausted, they at least breath hard. He was completely fine. You are just making up that he was exhausted out of thin air. There is no evidence for it. 

No, it's not troublesome for someone like Naruto, whose Bunshin were fighting opponents like the previous generation of actual Kage as Edos. Only if Kimimaro was strong enough to be a Kage level opponent himself does it make sense. And Mifune would have helped him just like the shinobi on other fields helped him. Chiyo doesn't have enough speed and her techniques don't have enough speed to hold a candle to KCM Naruto without serious support. Not just some average Jounin fighter. The average jounin have been left in the dust and are of no use against Kage level fighters.


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 13, 2013)

Jackashflash said:


> None of that contradicts the manga.



Tailed Beast Bombs from V2 Killer Bee (ignoring the fact that V2 forms from Jinchuriki other than Naruto have never been capable of using them as such), yielding only wall-level craters, strikes you as consistent with the manga's portrayal? Even Killer Bee's three-tailed form obliterated an enormous hill just by charging at it. 



> Why do people who stick to the manga pretend their source is so much superior?



It's not a question of 'superiority' (whatever the fuck that means in this context), but rather, the manga is written solely by the author, Masashi Kishimoto, and thus takes priority as evidence over the anime, where random details and filler by the animators not done by the author, are implemented. If we see scenes in the anime that are not in the manga itself, it's not viable to take it as evidence as Kishimoto himself did not write it.


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## Jackashflash (Aug 13, 2013)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Tailed Beast Bombs from V2 Killer Bee (ignoring the fact that V2 forms from Jinchuriki other than Naruto have never been capable of using them as such), yielding only wall-level craters, strikes you as consistent with the manga's portrayal? Even Killer Bee's three-tailed form obliterated an enormous hill just by charging at it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a question of 'superiority' (whatever the fuck that means in this context), but rather, the manga is written solely by the author, Masashi Kishimoto, and thus takes priority as evidence over the anime, where random details and filler by the animators not done by the author, are implemented. If we see scenes in the anime that are not in the manga itself, it's not viable to take it as evidence as Kishimoto himself did not write it.



You don't know what the word superior means?  

You only say it takes priority.   That sir is called your opinion. That doesn't make it true.  
As long as it is within the boundary of the story, and doesn't contradict, then its fine.  That is my non asinine opinion.

How do you know they aren't done by the author?  
You don't, just another assumption.

Of course there are scenes in the anime that aren't in the manga.  I can read a manga chapter in 2 minutes np.  It is like reading the cliff notes of a novel.  

The hell of it is that despite the fact your source is the concise cliff notes version, you have the audacity to say your version is superior.
The logic is completely ass backwards!


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## Nikushimi (Aug 14, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Extremely sharp jagged rock spikes from an obscene height without getting damaged.



Not anywhere near the same as having steel-hard javelins rammed into him by someone with superhuman strength.



> Three steel scalpels are needed just to shave off that chakra rod, all three are worn down.



Just because it took three or four scalpels to shave off an adequate sample doesn't mean Pain's chakra rods are exactly 3x harder than steel; for all we know, the very first scalpel could've made a small incision before disfiguring and the other two gradually progressed through it in subsequent attempts. It's impossible to know without seeing how the objects were actually forced against one another (or where contact was made by each scalpel; it looks like the entire end of the chakra rod was shaved off into filings).

Furthermore, the chakra rod is thicker than any of those scalpels, so we can't even say definitively if it is really harder than steel at all. If you even just took two scalpels and tried to shave one with the other, you'd see similar damage to both tools.



> Which means they aren't getting through Naruto's skin.



They are very easily getting through Naruto's skin, just like Pain's chakra rods.



> Where's the evidence that Sawarabi no Mai is sharper or more durable than the other bones Kimimaro uses?



It isn't, but I never claimed that in the first place.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 14, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> As you said, Lee was post operation. And he used the first gate. Oh and he probably had less stamina back then compared to the leader of the samurai. Oh, and he was visibly exhausted.
> 
> Whenever anyone's exhausted, they at least breath hard. He was completely fine. You are just making up that he was exhausted out of thin air. There is no evidence for it.
> 
> No, it's not troublesome for someone like Naruto, whose Bunshin were fighting opponents like the previous generation of actual Kage as Edos. Only if Kimimaro was strong enough to be a Kage level opponent himself does it make sense. And Mifune would have helped him just like the shinobi on other fields helped him. Chiyo doesn't have enough speed and her techniques don't have enough speed to hold a candle to KCM Naruto without serious support. Not just some average Jounin fighter. The average jounin have been left in the dust and are of no use against Kage level fighters.



I'm sorru but I can't find a way to understand this without mistakenly thinking that you are suggesting that Kimimaro may be a more serious treat than Hanzou. I know you don't mean that, but It's what It looks from this post.


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## ueharakk (Aug 14, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Just because it took three or four scalpels to shave off an adequate sample doesn't mean Pain's chakra rods are exactly 3x harder than steel;


really?  Then how compared to steel, how durable are pains chakra rods?  If you want to assert that they aren't 3x harder than steel, what evidence do you have that suggests that? 



Nikushimi said:


> for all we know, the very first scalpel could've made a small incision before disfiguring and the other two gradually progressed through it in subsequent attempts. It's impossible to know without seeing how the objects were actually forced against one another (or where contact was made by each scalpel; it looks like the entire end of the chakra rod was shaved off into filings).


for all we know, shizune could have used a rocket launcher, the z sword, light hawk wings and a jigentou to just weaken the chakra rod before it was brittle enough to be cut by 3 scalpels.  Simply saying "you can't prove it 100% therefore the argument is moot" is a standard of scrutiny that would destroy any kind of debate or discussion in NF since almost nothing about the manga can be proven to a 100%.  

Thus unless you actually assert a position that you think is more supported by the evidence of the manga, then the argument that the rods are 3 times more durable than steel is still the most supported argument and thus the one that should be accepted.



Nikushimi said:


> Furthermore, the chakra rod is thicker than any of those scalpels, so we can't even say definitively if it is really harder than steel at all. If you even just took two scalpels and tried to shave one with the other, you'd see similar damage to both tools.


99% of the things we think are true about the manga are things that we can't say DEFINITELY, yet does that mean that because of that, we can't say anything or make any kind of educated inferences about the manga?

Anyways, the chakra rod may be a little thicker than the scalpels, but the scalpels are wider, and while the chakra rod only emitted the little pile of shavings you see in that scan, the entire length of the three swords were destroyed, thus the amount of sword removed would be much much greater than the amount of chakra rod removed when the two materials went against each other, and thus chakra rod is at least 3 times more durable than steel.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 14, 2013)

Healthy Powerscaled Edo Kimimaro couldn't be sealed by KCM Naruto or Mifune, when KCM Naruto opened with a FRS against him, so he can probably do pretty well against Sage Mode Naruto that's not backed by an army of Samurai and Mifune.



> Which means they aren't getting through Naruto's skin.



Uhh.  Iunno who said this, but Healthy Kimimaro's basic bones can go toe to toe with a chakra flowed katana.  They can probably cut or stab Naruto.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 14, 2013)

Panther said:


> wtf is this shit ? SM Naruto with his eye's closed would wipe the floor with Kimi. Kimimaro was getting pressured by pre-time skip Gaara and lee, and by the authors portrayel he should be around Hebi Sasuke level which is still a tier or two below current SM Naruto.
> 
> Kimimaro also has neither shown any on panel speed feats to dodge a FRS or the durability to tank it. If Kimi did dodge or tank RM Naruto's FRS then kishi would have shown us a panel of Naruto being shocked like he did against Sandaime Raikage when his FRS was tanked. Instead kishi showed us a panel of the FRS wind dome where Kimi and Chiyo where standing and Inoichi commenting on how Unit 5 has taken control of their battle
> 
> ...



It makes more sense that they dodged the FRS than to go with the theory that the entire army let Chiyo and Kim Kims reform without sealing them so they could slaughter their army some more.


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## Skywalker (Aug 14, 2013)

I enjoy Kimi as much as the next guy, but Naruto takes this handily, Kimi isn't in his level. This wank is refreshing though.


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## Panther (Aug 14, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> It makes more sense that they dodged the FRS than to go with the theory that *the entire army let Chiyo and Kim Kims reform without sealing them so they could slaughter their army some more.*


 Yet Chiyo's and Kimi's on panel feats suggest that they neither have the speed to dodge or the durability to tank a FRS. All the belief people here have about Kimi and Chiyo either dodging or tanking the FRS, is based on off panel feats. Like i stated in my first post. Kishi most likely retconned Kimi's and Chiyo's sealing so that Itachi's effort didn't look useless. The reason why i believe Kishi retconned their sealing is because of this panel where Kishi has Uniochi comment on how Unit 5 has taken control of their battle and just skips away to Madara's reveal and not mention anything about about either Kimi or Chiyo being still free, till Itachi undoes Edo-tensei.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 15, 2013)

Oh please start using the actual manga people. KCM Naruto.......clone, yes, but hey his clones are widely considered to be Kagre level by his respective fanbase, right? Couldn't stomp Kimimaro with a sqaud. And yes FRS appeared to have been used off panel.


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## Jackashflash (Aug 15, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Oh please start using the actual manga people. KCM Naruto.......clone, yes, but hey his clones are widely considered to be Kagre level by his respective fanbase, right? Couldn't stomp Kimimaro with a sqaud. And yes FRS appeared to have been used off panel.



It was just the last fight they got to in the manga.  Hardly evidence of anything other than something had to be last.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Aug 15, 2013)

Jackashflash said:


> It was just the last fight they got to in the manga.  Hardly evidence of anything other than something had to be last.



It was? Because I recall the fight beginning 559. You know, a chapter before Uchiha Madara took center stage, and lasting up until Itachi ended edo tensei. The bottom line is that Kimimaru once one of the few edo tensei's to not be defeated prior to Itachi ending it. He survived Fu's sqaud assisted by a KCM naruto clone.

We give credit to Naruto's clone for taking on Hokages. How about giving credit to those who actually compete against Naruto's clones.

Kimimaro has never been soundly defeated in the manga, and has one of the better taijutsu showcasings to boot. His skeletal structure allots the durability to take a hit or two from SM Naruto, and he only needs to worry about a single range attack from Naruto.


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## ATastyMuffin (Aug 15, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Kimimaro has never been soundly defeated in the manga, and has one of the better taijutsu showcasings to boot. His skeletal structure allots the durability to take a hit or two from SM Naruto, and* he only needs to worry about a single range attack from Naruto*.



I don't believe he can even take a Sage Art: Rasengan, given that technique is far more lethal than a Lightning Clone, Lightning Blade, and punch from an enlarged Choji combined. Steel bones aren't going to cut it at that level. Neither can they survive a town-level attack in Sage Art: Giant Rasengan. He'll get obliterated by either attack.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 15, 2013)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> Oh please start using the actual manga people. KCM Naruto.......clone, yes, but hey his clones are widely considered to be Kagre level by his respective fanbase, right? Couldn't stomp Kimimaro with a sqaud. And yes FRS appeared to have been used off panel.



How much time did that clone last?
He arrived at the same time as Madara, and It was cancelled at the same time as Naruto reached where Tobi was. That clone lasted a minute at most, and aside from Kimimaro he had to fight the far more powerful Chiyo, who was using Samurais as shield


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 15, 2013)

Panther said:


> Yet Chiyo's and Kimi's on panel feats suggest that they neither have the speed to dodge or the durability to tank a FRS. All the belief people here have about Kimi and Chiyo either dodging or tanking the FRS, is based on off panel feats. Like i stated in my first post. Kishi most likely retconned Kimi's and Chiyo's sealing so that Itachi's effort didn't look useless. The reason why i believe Kishi retconned their sealing is because of this panel where Kishi has Uniochi comment on how Unit 5 has taken control of their battle and just skips away to Madara's reveal and not mention anything about about either Kimi or Chiyo being still free, till Itachi undoes Edo-tensei.



Yeah, I know that panel.  It looks like he hit them with it, and it's said they've got it handled.  I assumed they were hit as well.

I didn't really consider it a ret-con in favor of Itachi, since sealing two edos hardly counts more than sealing none.  I considered it as a redemption on his part for two characters that were quite strong, but killed too early or were too old/sick to give us a true showing.  So it was Kishi's way of telling us that they were all that.  Maybe it was both.


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## Zuhaitz (Aug 16, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Yeah, I know that panel.  It looks like he hit them with it, and it's said they've got it handled.  I assumed they were hit as well.
> 
> I didn't really consider it a ret-con in favor of Itachi, since sealing two edos hardly counts more than sealing none.  I considered it as a redemption on his part for two characters that were quite strong, but killed too early or were too old/sick to give us a true showing.  So it was Kishi's way of telling us that they were all that.  Maybe it was both.



In fact, the most probable thing to have happened is that Edo Chiyo used some alive fodder samurais as shield. Naruto wouldn't use the FRS if he can kill his allies 

Edo Kimimaro wasn't the most dangerous or powerful Edo there, Edo Chiyo was.


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## Icegaze (Aug 16, 2013)

Zuhaitz said:


> In fact, the most probable thing to have happened is that Edo Chiyo used some alive fodder samurais as shield. Naruto wouldn't use the FRS if he can kill his allies
> 
> Edo Kimimaro wasn't the most dangerous or powerful Edo there, Edo Chiyo was.



chiyo controlling fodders that kimimaro and her killed are more  dangerous than kimimaro himself 

as for this thread kimi looses all day everyday but common too much hate. 

 A puppeteer without puppets is quite weak, look at what happened to sasori. He lost well quick to the likes of sai and kankuro .  We all know 2 on 1 kankuro+sai  vs sasori with sasori full arsenal kankuro and sai  die a miserable death. 

chiyo is no different, so again its your bias and BS talking. Kimi was clearly more dangerous and *both of them survived FRS off panel*. 
Now conjecture can be made, however it was an off panel feat and shouldnt be used. We dont know if kimi avoided it. Though the anime team seem to think so  . We dont know if he tanked it. We dont know if naruto didnt just miss because he was out of chakra. 

too many variables.  
 kimi slaughters the shit out of chiyo if chiyo is using fodders to defend herself and no please dont do another kimi thread


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