# One-Eyed Rinnegan Madara vs Sage Mode Hashirama



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 14, 2014)

Lets see how close a fight this is.

Battlefield: Valley of the End
Starting Distance: 50 Meters
Restrictions: None
Knowledge: Both have canon knowledge on each other

Who wins and why?


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## Lurko (May 14, 2014)

Hasn't this been done before...


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## Cognitios (May 14, 2014)

Hashi pushes a mid diff.
It isn't a stomp, but Hashi isn't winning.


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## Nikushimi (May 14, 2014)

I'm confused.

Hashirama should be able to stomp the bejeezus out of this Madara with Shinsuusenju, but he lost to an eyeless Madara in the manga due to lolchakrarods. Lol, Kishi.

I guess Madara wins. I don't know. I don't care anymore. Hashirama is still a better character.


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## KyuubiFan (May 14, 2014)

Rin'negan Madara wins with low or mid difficulity.


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## Trojan (May 14, 2014)

madara wins without much effert as he destroyed that overrated guy in the manga. U_U

Also, Hashirama can't see or sense Madara's shadow which will make it even worst for him.


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## KeyofMiracles (May 14, 2014)

Limbo gives Madara the win. Shadow Madara can't be seen or sensed by Hashirama, though Senjutsu based AoE attacks should hurt the clone considering anything Senjutsu based will injure it....though its useless because Hashirama can't see or sense him..and it was strong enough to knock down 9 Bijuu. It can restrain Hashirama and then Madara can finish him.


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## Triggenism (May 14, 2014)

Madara is always going to be superior to Hashirama in my book, at least anything post VOTE.

SM Hashirama >= EMS Madara with Kyuubi

SM Hashirama < Edo Rinnegan Madara

Anything after that is >>>> Hashirama


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## Bonly (May 14, 2014)

Madara should win more times then not. Limbo Madara was able to quickly knock back the Bijuu quite a few meters back and Hashi should be as clueless about it as the Bijuu+Naruto+B were and Hashi's gonna get sent flying. Add in that Madara is a combo of his EMS self and Hashi with the added bonus of the Rinnegan and things have me favoring Madara here.


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## blk (May 14, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> Hashirama should be able to stomp the bejeezus out of this Madara with Shinsuusenju, but he lost to an eyeless Madara in the manga due to lolchakrarods. Lol, Kishi.
> 
> I guess Madara wins. I don't know. I don't care anymore. Hashirama is still a better character.



This Madara has Mokuton+SM and therefore every jutsu that Hashi has.

Add to that EMS and Limbo and you have a Madara that is better than Hashi in virtually everything.


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## Cognitios (May 14, 2014)

> This Madara has Mokuton+SM and therefore every jutsu that Hashi has.


Doesn't mean he is better. If it did people wouldn't be arguing that Tsunade >>>>> Sakura.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (May 14, 2014)

Madara's shadow ghost breaks hashirama's neck before the match really gets to crazy(buddha statue emerging). Though even if it did i am of the opinion madara can manifest a PS so he could hold out a bit but meh.

Hashirama literally won't know what hit him.


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## ARGUS (May 14, 2014)

Mascara canonically defeated hashirama after being revived 
He has everything that hashirama has on top of that he has a real rinnegan 
Madara wins this mid diff at most


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## Veracity (May 14, 2014)

Madara never ever defeated Hashirama under conventional means. Hashirama not having a sealing Justu, and Madara having a body to switch with, aren't fair stipulations in any sence. 

It's like BSM Naruto versus Edo Kimmi and Naruto not having sealing Justu 

Hashirama is canonically superior to Edo Madara without this Buddah statue. This match however goes to limbo Madara.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 14, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Madara never ever defeated Hashirama under conventional means. Hashirama not having a sealing Justu, and Madara having a body to switch with, aren't fair stipulations in any sence.
> 
> It's like BSM Naruto versus Edo Kimmi and Naruto not having sealing Justu
> 
> Hashirama is canonically superior to Edo Madara without this Buddah statue. This match however goes to limbo Madara.


...no he wasn't. Edo Madara was playing around with him and Hashirama needed Naruto's help to put him down. Not only that, Madara _got Hashirama's back a total of six times_ and was controlling the fight.


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## Veracity (May 14, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...no he wasn't. Edo Madara was playing around with him and Hashirama needed Naruto's help to put him down. Not only that, Madara _got Hashirama's back a total of six times_ and was controlling the fight.



Yet Hashirama didn't use his strongest  technique at all during that battle and Madara was the one playing around ?  

You also seem to forget that Madara nigh instantly used PS against Hashirama( didn't use it at all against Naruto, Bee, Kakashi or Gai) and has been bloodthirsty his entire life to fight Hashirama. I find it very odd that Madara could "play " with Hashirama , yet use his strongest technique, and yet be craving to get the better of said Shinobi is his entire life. 

He needed Naruto to create an opening for the sealing team to seal Madara. Not only this but Naruto didn't necessarily plan anything with Hashirama. He simply fired an FRS at his face and Hashirama casually jumped out of it's AoE. There is nothing to suggest Hashirama magically planned a combination with Naruto.

It's also to note that his god gates/ wood dragon negate Ninjustu all together, meaning Madara was screwed regardless. If that scenario was re down as alive Shinobi, Hashirama simply could have killed Madara where he stood.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Yet Hashirama didn't use his strongest  technique at all during that battle and Madara was the one playing around ?


Madara was playing around. He wanted to enjoy the battle. It was blatant for it. Hashirama didn't pull out Shinsusenju since it wouldn't have helped, Madara was stronger than he was before. 


> You also seem to forget that Madara nigh instantly used PS against Hashirama( didn't use it at all against Naruto, Bee, Kakashi or Gai) and has been bloodthirsty his entire life to fight Hashirama. I find it very odd that Madara could "play " with Hashirama , yet use his strongest technique, and yet be craving to get the better of said Shinobi is his entire life.


Madara explicitly talked about before coming back to life, he wanted to fight Hashirama again. He's shown _enjoying the entire fight_. The manga made it abundantly clear he wasn't serious.

He never used Mokuton against Hashirama. He never used his Rinnegan techniques. ALL he did was use the strongest EMS technique available to him to draw out the fight. And even then, he controlled the course of it _and_ he got Hashirama's back a total of _SIX TIMES._


> He needed Naruto to create an opening for the sealing team to seal Madara. Not only this but Naruto didn't necessarily plan anything with Hashirama. He simply fired an FRS at his face and Hashirama casually jumped out of it's AoE. There is nothing to suggest Hashirama magically planned a combination with Naruto.


Hashirama _explicitly thanked Naruto_, he credited Naruto with the near defeat. 


> It's also to note that his god gates/ wood dragon negate Ninjustu all together, meaning Madara was screwed regardless. If that scenario was re down as alive Shinobi, Hashirama simply could have killed Madara where he stood.


Hashirama couldn't even get Mokuton Ryu or Myojin on him until Naruto helped on the latter. Not only that, Mokuton Ryu was only used to cancel out Madara's natural Chakra Absorption, NOT Preta Path. 

The manga was explicit: Madara controlled the course of the fight, not going all out, all so he could come back to life stronger than before. Hell this was explicitly shown when Madara, upon coming back to life, doing a single seal and bam Hashirama was under his control like a Six Path of Pain. He could have done that at ANY time and Hashirama would have been powerless to stop it.


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## Veracity (May 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara was playing around. He wanted to enjoy the battle. It was blatant for it. Hashirama didn't pull out Shinsusenju since it wouldn't have helped, Madara was stronger than he was before.
> 
> Madara explicitly talked about before coming back to life, he wanted to fight Hashirama again. He's shown _enjoying the entire fight_. The manga made it abundantly clear he wasn't serious.
> 
> ...



Madara was not playing around as he instantly pulled out PS as opposed to only using V4 Sussano against Naruto and Co. So unless you assume that Madara was basically sleeping against BM Naruto , BM Bee, Gated Gai, and Kamui Kakashi, then he was trying against Hashirama.

And please do explain what the fuck Madara can do once Hashirama jumps on the Buddah Statue 


Yeah lol? Show some panels of Madara explicitly enjoying the fight ? He was enjoying his time against red aura Gai except he still got his right section blown apart. Just because you seem to be "enjoying " a fight, doesn't mean you aren't trying. Especially when you resort to your strongest Justu off the bat.

Moukton ? Irrelevant because Sage Hashirama shits on him in that regard.

Rinnegan techniques ? He was shown having preta path. And please do tel l what Rinnegan technique would have any effect on the Shodai? Especially when this Madara holds a fake Rinnegan. 

Doesn't matter if he got Hashirama's back 6 times if Madara was trapped at the end of the battle and the Buddah statue wasn't used at all . 

Thanking Naruto has what to do with anything ? Just because he helped him doesn't mean if was planned. He merely made an opening for a seal , which Hashirama couldn't do anything about as he doesn't have a sealing Justu .

The dragon was used to negate Justu . Meaning from that point on. Hashirama basically had Madara fucked, as he had no Justu .

The manga wasn't explicit at all. Your argument can be switched on you casually like so.

Hashirama was in-control of the situation in the entire time, that's why Madara got trapped in the first place( his plan was never to get beaten by Hashirama). This is also the reason Madara just didn't simply still his sage mode or beat him to begin with in Edo Tensei; cause he was to weak. It's also the reason he needed his alive body, because it's stronger then his Edo body.

It's also very clear that Madara couldn't simply activate the seals prior because Hashirama was highly pressuring him, or cause he couldn't use then as an Edo, or cause he can't use it against a moving target...


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## Jagger (May 15, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> Hashirama should be able to stomp the bejeezus out of this Madara with Shinsuusenju, but he lost to an eyeless Madara in the manga due to lolchakrarods. Lol, Kishi.
> 
> I guess Madara wins. I don't know. I don't care anymore. Hashirama is still a better character.


It has been known since a long while that chakra rods are capable of stopping someone's movements and preventing them to mold chakra at all.

So it isn't "lol Kishi". Or that much. Anyway, Madara didn't really defeat him, but just subdue him with his chakra rods.


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## Cheeky Nayrudo (May 15, 2014)

Hashirama gets Limbo and die. Or he can just get another 6 rods on his back but no edo so he dies.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Madara was not playing around as he instantly pulled out PS as opposed to only using V4 Sussano against Naruto and Co. So unless you assume that Madara was basically sleeping against BM Naruto , BM Bee, Gated Gai, and Kamui Kakashi, then he was trying against Hashirama.


Madara pulled out Perfect Susano'o since _this is a fight he wanted to enjoy._ Notice how he pulled it out against the five Kages _when they finally posed a challenge with their combined power._ Madara uses it when he wants to enjoy a fight.


> And please do explain what the fuck Madara can do once Hashirama jumps on the Buddah Statue


Make his own? Drop meteors? Use Bansho Ten'in to yank Hashirama off and shank him or soul rip? 



> Yeah lol? Show some panels of Madara explicitly enjoying the fight ? He was enjoying his time against red aura Gai except he still got his right section blown apart. Just because you seem to be "enjoying " a fight, doesn't mean you aren't trying. Especially when you resort to your strongest Justu off the bat.


Dude, Madara was grinning like a madman while fighting Hashirama. When Obito summoned the Shinju, he acted a bit disappointed his fun was coming to an end.


> Moukton ? Irrelevant because Sage Hashirama shits on him in that regard.


Why should it? Madara can use all of Hashirama's Mokuton. He can effectively counter Hashirama's techniques.


> Rinnegan techniques ? He was shown having preta path. And please do tel l what Rinnegan technique would have any effect on the Shodai? Especially when this Madara holds a fake Rinnegan.


Fake Rinnegan only prevents the summoning of the Gedo Mazo, nothing else. And...Chibaku Tensei shits on Shinsusenju. Cho Shinra Tensei does too. Not to mention Tengai Shinsei, two meteors dropping from Shinsusenju's backside with enough force to plow through its main armanent.


> Doesn't matter if he got Hashirama's back 6 times if Madara was trapped at the end of the battle and the Buddah statue wasn't used at all .


In a fight, if your back is exposed, that usually means you _lost the fight since you're at your opponent's mercy._ The only reason why Hashirama survived for so long was because he was an Edo Tensei and Madara didn't want to use his kill switch with the Chakra Receivers he had _stabbed into Hashirama's back._


> Thanking Naruto has what to do with anything ? Just because he helped him doesn't mean if was planned. He merely made an opening for a seal , which Hashirama couldn't do anything about as he doesn't have a sealing Justu .


His Mokuton Ryu wasn't enough to defeat Madara. He needed Naruto's Odama Rasenshuriken to pin Madara long enough for Myojinmon. He couldn't do either on his lonesome. And again, it doesn't change the fact with a single seal Madara could have ended the fight and turned Hashirama into his puppet at ANY time.


> The dragon was used to negate Justu . Meaning from that point on. Hashirama basically had Madara fucked, as he had no Justu .


Mokuton Ryu was used to negate Madara's natural Chakra Absorption Technique. Hashirama says so here.

Madara again, could have took control at ANY time.


> The manga wasn't explicit at all. Your argument can be switched on you casually like so.


It quite was. Madara states he wanted to fight Hashirama once more before becoming the Juubi Jin. He's enjoying the fight at several points, and even expressed disappointment he'd have to cut his fight short. 


> Hashirama was in-control of the situation in the entire time, that's why Madara got trapped in the first place( his plan was never to get beaten by Hashirama). This is also the reason Madara just didn't simply still his sage mode or beat him to begin with in Edo Tensei; cause he was to weak. It's also the reason he needed his alive body, because it's stronger then his Edo body.


I don't know what manga you're reading, but Madara was in control the entire time. Madara's plan was to wait it out for two things: Obito to be defeated and Black Zetsu to arrive so he could resurrect himself. This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.

Again, Hashirama got stabbed six times by Chakra Disruption Blades, ALL Madara had to do was channel his chakra through them and Hashirama would have not only been immobilized but turned into Madara's puppet.


> It's also very clear that Madara couldn't simply activate the seals prior because Hashirama was highly pressuring him, or cause he couldn't use then as an Edo, or cause he can't use it against a moving target...


Its made very clear Madara didn't do it beforehand since he was enjoying the fight and was waiting for Obito to be taken out and Black Zetsu to arrive, actually. 

Seriously, the manga showed Madara was superior there. He was stalemating a Sage Mode Hashirama _without even trying_ as shown in 640-646.


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## Veracity (May 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Madara pulled out Perfect Susano'o since _this is a fight he wanted to enjoy._ Notice how he pulled it out against the five Kages _when they finally posed a challenge with their combined power._ Madara uses it when he wants to enjoy a fight.
> 
> Make his own? Drop meteors? Use Bansho Ten'in to yank Hashirama off and shank him or soul rip?
> 
> ...



Or he pulls it out our when ever he is notices a threat. Notice his if he didn't pull it out against the Gokage he would have been sealed at that very moment ? This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.

That had him in the "lock " and he was forced to use such.  Also notice how when the Edo is stopped, he reverts back to his base form and fight that the Gokage off Till he feels he needs to end their lives with PS. It's evident he only uses PS when it's important.

Against Hashirama he feels that his strongest Justu is necessary in order to go up against Hashirama . 

? Madara lacks the feats to use the Buddah statue are you kidding me ? He has only created a weaker wood dragon, wood forest, and his pollen tech. All of Hashirama's weaker Justu. Don't think because Madara has Hashirama DNA, that he's all of a sudden equal to Hashirama in the Justu he basically created . Having the Justu for one day doesn't make up for the years of mastery Hashirama has maintained. Madara has 
Yet to use any top tier Mokuton Justu like Wood Human, Wood Arms, his top tiered Bjuu wood dragon, Wood Dragon~ Wood Human combination, Wood Hobi, or the Buddah.  It's also to note that Sage mode is needed to create the Buddah.

? Drop meteors ? The meteor is much smaller then PS: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
Wood human tosses that shit. Not to mention that Hashirama can escape it's AoE with one shunshin. Not to mention that because Wood Human and PS are about the same size, the meteor would be about the size of the Wood Human that fits on the Buddahs head: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
The statue tosses that shit like a baseball at Madara. 

Madara has 0 feats with the Rinnegan and hardly uses it for Anything other then preta path. He has no feats of such at all, not does Obito. That's fan fiction basically. It's evident that he can't do anything special with one fake Rinnegan.

And trying to gravity pull sage Hashirama towards himself ends in his body being smashed into pieces. Sage Hashirama canonically has the reactions to point blank dodge Tobirama, so he an react to Madara Justu fine.

This is Madara face before night moth: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.

And after : This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
He's literally laughing when his body is in 2 pieces. You have no point lol. Madara just enjoys a really good fight regardless if he's losing or winning at the time.

There's is no proof that he an use all of Hashirama techniques. Showing his 3 weakest ones doesn't prove anything.

CT definitely doesn't not shit on the Buddah when it is way smaller then the Buddah statue: 

And 2 meteors dropping that each are smaller then a single Buddah hand aren't doing anything lol. 

And Madara has one Rinnegan eye. That surely weakens it's effects.

The same fight tactics don't apply in manga don't even try that shit. Usually if you are unable to move or use Justu, you usually lost the battle. The same logic can be used right against you, considering Madara was incapable of capitalizing on the fact that he had hit Hashirama 6 times. I also remember Rock Lee hitting Gaara about that many ones but ultimately losing in the end. 

The Edo Tensei logic can be used right back at Madara lol. And please do tell me why Madara waited so long to use the chakra receivers ? To the point of his own defeat, or was it merely that he had to wait till Obito was injured enough to switch bodies to gain an advantage on Hashirama ? 

Or he merely couldn't seal Madara with the wood dragon on him? He needed an opening to lock down his gates considering he has no sealing Justu and Madara is an Edo .....

He couldn't turn Hashirama into a puppet because 
A) he wasn't alive
B) Hashirama was pressuring him enough that he couldn't use it 
C) he can't use it on moving targets
D) he was trying to use said Justu, but Hashirama binded him before so.

That's exactly what I said actually.

All of that holds what merit ? Of course Madara isn't as concerned about Hashirama considering at that moment in time he could have absorbed the Juubi and decimated Hashirama casually, or the fact that Hashirama and him are Edo and have unlimited chakra and regeneration, and Hashirama doesn't have a sealing tag. It was a point less battle to begin with, but Hashirama canonically won.

Hashirama was weakened by his clones/ Juubi seal/ and Sage gates. That's exactly why he couldn't even create Sage clones. He had to revert to base clones.

He also lost against a gimped sage Hashirama who failed to use his strongest and most useful tech, he could have literally spammed.


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## ueharakk (May 15, 2014)

portrayal: one eye'd rinnegan madara considering how he manhandled 7 beasts + gaara + Bee + BM Naruto and how easily he killed Sasuke.

Feats: what can he do against shinsuusenjuu?  Naruto not using BSM against one-eyed Madara suggests that rinbou can be sensed by sennin mode, and if edo hashirama is edo madara's physical equal, then I don't see SM Hashirama getting taken out by a single hit from rinbou.


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## Arles Celes (May 15, 2014)

Hashi still has more raw power than Madara thanks to Shinsenju.

However, Limbo cannot be neither seen nor sensed by Hashi and it can either hold him(like it apparently paralyzed Sasuke before) so that Madara cuts his head off or the shadow Madara can sneaky kill Hashi himself.

Since Hashi does not bring Shinsenju into the battle right away while Madara knows Hashi's prowess and won't underestimate him I think it is quite likely that Limbo would kill Hashi before Shinsenju came into play IMO.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Or he pulls it out our when ever he is notices a threat. Notice his if he didn't pull it out against the Gokage he would have been sealed at that very moment ? This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.


No, he wasn't in any danger of being sealed there. He even said 'Well you showed me your full power, lets see how you do against Perfect Susano'o'? And busts out with ease. At no point he was in danger of being sealed there.


> That had him in the "lock " and he was forced to use such.  Also notice how when the Edo is stopped, he reverts back to his base form and fight that the Gokage off Till he feels he needs to end their lives with PS. It's evident he only uses PS when it's important.


No, he only uses Perfect Susano'o _when he enjoys a fight._ He became so bored he didn't even need it afterwards to beat the Gokage.


> Against Hashirama he feels that his strongest Justu is necessary in order to go up against Hashirama .


Which is why he's grinning like a madman, showing visible enjoyment, etc? Seriously, do you pick and chose which you read?


> Madara lacks the feats to use the Buddah statue are you kidding me ? He has only created a weaker wood dragon, wood forest, and his pollen tech. All of Hashirama's weaker Justu. Don't think because Madara has Hashirama DNA, that he's all of a sudden equal to Hashirama in the Justu he basically created . Having the Justu for one day doesn't make up for the years of mastery Hashirama has maintained. Madara has


Manga explicitly said Edo Madara is Hashirama + Madara fusion. Both powers COMBINED. And at NO point was his Mokuton said to be inferior to Hashirama's -snip-

Madara could do EVERYTHING Hashirama could do. Even Kabuto SAID SO when talking about his improvements. 


> Yet to use any top tier Mokuton Justu like Wood Human, Wood Arms, his top tiered Bjuu wood dragon, Wood Dragon~ Wood Human combination, Wood Hobi, or the Buddah.  It's also to note that Sage mode is needed to create the Buddah.


1. Who says he didn't use Mokujin or Wood Hands? Most of his battle was off screen. And his Mokuton Ryu wasn't as strong as Hashirama's based on fucking WHAT? His performed _far better_ against Naruto's Biju Mode than Hashirama's did against Kurama (which was IMMEDIATELY FODDERIZED).
2. No, Sage Mode isn't required to make Shinsusenju-Spiral Zetsu is using it remember and he's not in Sage Mode. 



> Drop meteors ? The meteor is much smaller then PS: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
> Wood human tosses that shit. Not to mention that Hashirama can escape it's AoE with one shunshin. Not to mention that because Wood Human and PS are about the same size, the meteor would be about the size of the Wood Human that fits on the Buddahs head: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
> The statue tosses that shit like a baseball at Madara.


Are you serious? The meteors hitting Shinsusenju's blind spot doesn't work? And Mokujin is _far shorter_ than Perfect Susano'o. 

You are seriously downplaying here and YOU FUCKING KNOW IT.


> Madara has 0 feats with the Rinnegan and hardly uses it for Anything other then preta path. He has no feats of such at all, not does Obito. That's fan fiction basically. It's evident that he can't do anything special with one fake Rinnegan.


Madara explicitly knows how to use ever Rikudo Technique. He even taught Obito HOW to do it. Obito couldn't perform them since he didn't have the power to wield both Rinnegan. And stop it with the 'fake' Rinnegan shit. The only limitation was _Madara could not summon Gedo Mazo_ with Edo Tensei Rinnegan, everything else he COULD FUCKING USE. Stop picking and choosing for fuck's sake.


> And trying to gravity pull sage Hashirama towards himself ends in his body being smashed into pieces. Sage Hashirama canonically has the reactions to point blank dodge Tobirama, so he an react to Madara Justu fine.


Sage Hashirama has shown no reactions to dodge Tobirama, that's Madara's feat, NOT Hashirama for fuck's sake. And no, he can't react to a invisible force he has NO KNOWLEDGE OF.


> This is Madara face before night moth: This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
> 
> And after : This shows he had planned for this, being immobilized by Hashirama was what he LET happened.
> He's literally laughing when his body is in 2 pieces. You have no point lol. Madara just enjoys a really good fight regardless if he's losing or winning at the time.


Madara loves a challenge. He loves a good fight. You've seen how he reacts when he isn't enjoying one. _AND HE FUCKING SAID HE WANTED TO FIGHT HASHIRAMA AGAIN BEFORE BECOMING JUUBI JINCHURIKI, OR DID YOU JUST IGNORE MY LINK?!_ Since I'm getting you just don't click on them, go 'NAHAHAHAH, HASHIRAMA IS BETTER, NAHAHAHAHA!' and completely and utterly ignore state of mind and every single thing!


> There's is no proof that he an use all of Hashirama techniques. Showing his 3 weakest ones doesn't prove anything.


Other than Kabuto saying that he can? Other than Madara showing them on the exact same scale as Hashirama's? -snip-


> CT definitely doesn't not shit on the Buddah when it is way smaller then the Buddah statue:


...why the fuck are you sing *NAGATO'S VERSION* over Madara's? Madara's shown he can do Chibaku Tensei on a far larger scale!


> And 2 meteors dropping that each are smaller then a single Buddah hand aren't doing anything lol.


You do know the force and power of a meteor dropping from orbit right? Size means shit when they slam down with enough force to cause extinction events. Not to mention HITTING A FUCKING BLIND SPOT!


> And Madara has one Rinnegan eye. That surely weakens it's effects.


With living Madara, he's got Rinnegan + Sage Mode and the feat of defeating all nine Biju at the same time. Hashirama has no feat like that.


> The same fight tactics don't apply in manga don't even try that shit. Usually if you are unable to move or use Justu, you usually lost the battle. The same logic can be used right against you, considering Madara was incapable of capitalizing on the fact that he had hit Hashirama 6 times. I also remember Rock Lee hitting Gaara about that many ones but ultimately losing in the end.


Why do you act like Madara was incapable? He just didn't want to use it until the PERFECT MOMENT. Madara was in control, the moment he stabbed Hashirama in the back with a Chakra Distruption Blade, was the moment he could, at ANY point, took control of the fight and turned Hashirama into a punching bag or even soul ripped him due to his ability to control Hashirama with his chakra.


> The Edo Tensei logic can be used right back at Madara lol. And please do tell me why Madara waited so long to use the chakra receivers ? To the point of his own defeat, or was it merely that he had to wait till Obito was injured enough to switch bodies to gain an advantage on Hashirama ?


For the simple matter: he was buying time. He was biding his time for the perfect moment. He wanted Black Zetsu to arrive and take control of Obito so he could be brought back to life. Agan, this shows he's in complete control despite being pinned by Myonjinmon. He could have broken out at any time or controlled Hashirama.

You do know a shinobi's best weapon is *deception*, right? Hashirama was played like a fiddle. 


> Or he merely couldn't seal Madara with the wood dragon on him? He needed an opening to lock down his gates considering he has no sealing Justu and Madara is an Edo .....


Why are you talking about sealing? Mokuton Ryu was used to prevent Madara from using his natural Chakra Absorption technique (which he later used against Amaterasu) while Madara kept his Rinnegan techniques secret from Hashirama. 


> He couldn't turn Hashirama into a puppet because
> A) he wasn't alive
> B) Hashirama was pressuring him enough that he couldn't use it
> C) he can't use it on moving targets
> D) he was trying to use said Justu, but Hashirama binded him before so.


One question: Where in the entire battle was Hashirama pressuring him? Dude, the manga shows flat out Hashirama didn't even know what Madara's Rinnegan could do.



> All of that holds what merit ? Of course Madara isn't as concerned about Hashirama considering at that moment in time he could have absorbed the Juubi and decimated Hashirama casually, or the fact that Hashirama and him are Edo and have unlimited chakra and regeneration, and Hashirama doesn't have a sealing tag. It was a point less battle to begin with, but Hashirama canonically won.


No, Madara won. He strategically beat Hashirama and played him like a fiddle. He controlled the entire fight and you fucking know it. 

Madara was just enjoying the fight. He expressed (again, several times over) of fighting Hashirama before he became the Juubi Jin.


> Hashirama was weakened by his clones/ Juubi seal/ and Sage gates. That's exactly why he couldn't even create Sage clones. He had to revert to base clones.


Or maybe, just maybe: Mokuton Bushin's can't use Sage Mode? And Hashirama wasn't weakened at that point, his gates and everything were gone.


> He also lost against a gimped sage Hashirama who failed to use his strongest and most useful tech, he could have literally spammed.




Its like you're reading a different manga. Hashirama LOST. Madara played him like a fiddle. Madara didn't, not once use a Rinnegan technique against him (with this chapter, we've shown he can use Rinnegan powers on a far greater scale than Nagato).

Next you'll say Sage Mode Hashirama can defeat Juubito, Juudara, and Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke.


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## tkpirate (May 15, 2014)

Madara should win this with high difficulty.


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## blk (May 15, 2014)

Cognitios said:


> Doesn't mean he is better. If it did people wouldn't be arguing that Tsunade >>>>> Sakura.



Infact, it means that he is at least equal to Hashi.
Adding the EMS and the Rinnegan makes Madara the superior shinobi.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12, I recommend calming down slightly before you get yourself into trouble.


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## Deleted member 211714 (May 15, 2014)

Without 100% Kyuubi and most of his Paths, the only thing that enables him to defeat Hashirama is Limbo. 
However, Madara might play around and have some fun with Hashi, so that arrogance could lead to his defeat. Mind you, he has knowledge on the chakra stake that "canonically" ended their fight, which is why it's not a factor in this bout.

If Shinsuusenju comes out before Madara tries to get the sneak attack on Shodai via Limbo, he's going to be wiped off the face of the map.

Take away Limbo = Madara certainly loses
Add 6 Paths (2 Rinnegan) = Madara certainly wins

...but this match-up could potentially go both ways. 
Just depends on whether Limbo is used *effectively* before Hashi's big guns


EDIT: Under the assumption that Hashirama's Sage Mode can't sense Limbo...
If it's actually able to sense the clone, there's no way Madara is winning this fight.


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## Veracity (May 15, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, he wasn't in any danger of being sealed there. He even said 'Well you showed me your full power, lets see how you do against Perfect Susano'o'? And busts out with ease. At no point he was in danger of being sealed there.
> 
> No, he only uses Perfect Susano'o _when he enjoys a fight._ He became so bored he didn't even need it afterwards to beat the Gokage.
> 
> ...



Yo what the hell? This isn't a screaming match. This is a debate. Debate properly or it's not worth my time, and I'll fear a neg rep coming as usual.

Please do tell what the hell Madara could have down in that instance ? His movements where subdued by the sand and preta path was negated and he was literally standing in a Jinton cube. He was actually getting sealed in they exact panel, and only busted out via PS: Agan, this shows he's in complete control despite being pinned by Myonjinmon.

Believe what you believe, but it's highly evident that he uses PS whenever it's needed.

Because he's Madara Uchiha ? You seem to have skipped the part of my argument where it shows him getting night moth'd into oblivion, and him visibly laughing about it. Or Gais chakra rising through the roof and Madara smiling  about it ? Was Madara having fun then or was he getting his ass kicked ? Or was it merely both because that's a direct reflection of Madara's personality, and an not be used to assume he "nwas" playing especially with the Gai example I brought up.

I don't care what Kabuto "explicitly " said. Tsuande said she couldn't die in battle. Jirayia said a could take on both Itachi and Kisame. It takes a Sannin to defeat a Sannin etc. Are all those true ? Kabuto merely meant that Madara was the closest thing to Hashirama considering Yamato and Danzo are complete jokes. He actually posses his named Justu as opposed to Yamato. I don't get where the hell you think Hashirama DNA= Actual Hashirama . That's ridiculous. If Madara truly had Hashirama power, skill, or prowess, then he would have destroyed him. And that most certainly didn't happen. 


1) if Madara used Moukton off panel then he most certainly used Rinnegan techniques of panel. He hasn't shown high level Moukton techniques, and it's evident he can't do them. The wood dragon Hashirama used against Madara was superior to any other in the manga as it Completely shut down his movements. You mean the wood dragon that restricted Kurama movements enough that Madara had to step in with a v4 Sussano and force Kurama to fire a TBB, as opposed to BM Naruto straight up brawling against the wood dragon.

2) he's using a Buddah statue literally 100 times smaller then the senjutsu enchnaced one. That's cool?

What blind spot? It has 1000 freaking arms bigger then the meteors thenselves.
And no not at all. Here is Wood Human compared to PS: Agan, this shows he's in complete control despite being pinned by Myonjinmon.
And I've already given a scan of the Wood Human in comparison to the Buddah, meaning the meteor is smaller then each of it's hands.  Not to mention the meteors drop slow as fuck, and it takes Madara time to cast the seals to use them.

Show me where it says Madara knows how to use every single Rinnegan technique. And even if he could, this is only present with 2 real Rinnegan, as opposed to one fake Rinnegan.  Also show me where it says that the only limitation to  a fake Rinnegan is the summoning of Gedo; one of the most basic Rinnegan techniques.

Madara dodged Tobirama with his eyes closed soloey relying on his sage sensing. The exact same sage sensing Hashirama has. He could easily replicate that feat.

Oh look at you. Like using capital letters is going to prove your point or something. If Madara "enjoys " a good fight then you have suddenly lost your whole " he was playing around with Hashirama " statement. He sure as hell wasn't playing around with Gai even though he split him into 2 pieces.  

I clicked on every single link you posted and they hold zero merit. Madara saying he wants to fight Hashirama means what? He was excited to fight red sure Gai ? Us also to note that they were Edo Tensei and death was out of the equation. It's why they were fighting at the center of a quadruple TBN explosion, and continued fighting as if nothing happened. Madara knew very well that Hashirama couldn't actually finish Madara because he's an Edo and Hashirama lacks a sealing Justu.

Are you serious ? You are seriously gonna scale Edo Madara with one fake Rinnegan to a Juubi enchnaced ~ Post Juubi tree absorbed ~ 2 real Rinnegan Madara ? That's ridiculous. Edo Madara can easily be scaled to Nagato considering Nagato has 2 freaking Rinnegan opposed to Madara's one, and hasn't even shown the ability to do so.

The force and power of meteor is Completley different in this manga. The freaking Buddah statue could pick up the Kyyubi like a doll. The same monster that flattens mountain ranges with his tail. The Buddah is perfectly capable of of tossing that meteor like nothing especially considering it's size compared to a hand on the Buddah.

 Nobody here is talking about living sage Madara. I already agreed to his superiority over Hashirama.

Please do explain this perfect moment thing.  Because it seems more like Hashirama was incapable of actually killing Madara and had to resort to perfectly binding him in the wood dragon to win. 

You have absolutely no proof that Madara could have casually activated those rods. It's highly evident that Madara either  needed his real body to do so, or needed Hashirama in a off guard state to do so.

Yes he did need to wait for the right moment to switch bodies. But he only has his chance because he was an Edo Tensei with Inifinite chakra and health, and Hashirama lacked a sealing Justu.

Madara did not keep his preta path ability a secret from Hashirama at all.  Hashirama clearly says he needed the wood dragon to negate his preta path: Agan, this shows he's in complete control despite being pinned by Myonjinmon.

He was pressuring Madara enough to where he used PS, and didn't have the time to activate.


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## Veracity (May 15, 2014)

Madara did not win at all by conventional means. He needed to wait till Hashirama was exhausted and thought he was defeated, then swift to his stronger and faster alive body to win. If Hashirama had that luxury over Madara then he would have raped.

Saying he wanted to fight Hashirama again proves nothing. You can want to fight someone stronger then you..

If Naruto with an inferior sage mode can create sage Bunshin, then Hashirama certainly can.  His sage mode was gimped by edo.

I've never made an statement as ridiculous as you are assuming. Hashirama  > Edo Madara can be backed up by feats.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Yo what the hell? This isn't a screaming match. This is a debate. Debate properly or it's not worth my time, and I'll fear a neg rep coming as usual.


If I do neg you, it won't be for this debate.


> Please do tell what the hell Madara could have down in that instance ? His movements where subdued by the sand and preta path was negated and he was literally standing in a Jinton cube. He was actually getting sealed in they exact panel, and only busted out via PS: Here


Madara could have just used Susano'o ITSELF to bust himself out. He didn't need Perfect Susano'o, and explicitly said he was rewarding the Gokage. He was never in any danger of being sealed.


> Believe what you believe, but it's highly evident that he uses PS whenever it's needed.


No, he only uses Perfect Susano'o when he wants to enjoy a battle or reward an adversary. Hashirama is a worthy opponent who Madara expressed several times over a wish to fight again. You just don't care about intent do you?


> Because he's Madara Uchiha ? You seem to have skipped the part of my argument where it shows him getting night moth'd into oblivion, and him visibly laughing about it. Or Gais chakra rising through the roof and Madara smiling  about it ? Was Madara having fun then or was he getting his ass kicked ? Or was it merely both because that's a direct reflection of Madara's personality, and an not be used to assume he "nwas" playing especially with the Gai example I brought up.


Given he was grinning like a madman, YES he was enjoying the fight with Eight Gated Guy. He was explicitly saying so, even asking 'How much longer can you dance' and commending Guy throughout the fight. Hell when he was almost killed, he _laughed_ and congratulated Guy.

Whenever Madara enjoys a battle, he grins like a madman.


> I don't care what Kabuto "explicitly " said. Tsuande said she couldn't die in battle. Jirayia said a could take on both Itachi and Kisame. It takes a Sannin to defeat a Sannin etc. Are all those true ? Kabuto merely meant that Madara was the closest thing to Hashirama considering Yamato and Danzo are complete jokes. He actually posses his named Justu as opposed to Yamato. I don't get where the hell you think Hashirama DNA= Actual Hashirama . That's ridiculous. If Madara truly had Hashirama power, skill, or prowess, then he would have destroyed him. And that most certainly didn't happen.


Kabuto explicitly worked on Madara's body and enhanced it to far beyond his Prime. Rinnegan + Mokuton + EMS abilities, how doesn't that translate to that? And Of those statements, most are correct. Not only that, at no point Yamato nor Danzo were brought up, Madara was explicitly said to have been modified to use all of Hashirama's abilities.

The only reason why Madara didn't destroy Hashirama? It wasn't part of the plan. He wanted to fight him, he didn't want to beat him. There's a difference. He'd have become the Juubi Jin either way.



> 1) if Madara used Moukton off panel then he most certainly used Rinnegan techniques of panel. He hasn't shown high level Moukton techniques, and it's evident he can't do them. The wood dragon Hashirama used against Madara was superior to any other in the manga as it Completely shut down his movements. You mean the wood dragon that restricted Kurama movements enough that Madara had to step in with a v4 Sussano and force Kurama to fire a TBB, as opposed to BM Naruto straight up brawling against the wood dragon.


I was talking about the GOKAGE FIGHT, now Edo Madara vs Edo Hashirama. And no, if he did use Rinnegan techniques, Hashirama wouldn't have been able to defend against them due to _lack of knowledge._

Madara's Mokuton Ryu was superior to Hashirama's since it actually DID something to Kurama. Instead of being fodderized like a non-entity.


> 2) he's using a Buddah statue literally 100 times smaller then the senjutsu enchnaced one. That's cool?


And given how Madara is far closer to Hashirama than Spiral Zetsu, his Shinsusenju would have been nearly as large. 


> What blind spot? It has 1000 freaking arms bigger then the meteors thenselves.


First of all, the blindspot is to the back where the ARMS ARE. Secondly, it doesn't matter if the Shinsusenju is larger than the meteors, the meteors are falling at such a rate Shinsusenju can't counter. And not only that, they've shown a higher amount of POWER than Shinsusenju itself:

Notice how the original weight Meteor striking the lightened one could be felt all the way to the fricken Allied Shinobi Headquarters?

Two of them, without lightening, impacting at the same time? You do have any idea the damage they'd cause? Not to mention the fact those were casual meteors, Madara could always make them larger. Nothing Shinsusenju did came close, its Choju Kebetsu wasn't felt from a Country Away after all.


> And no not at all. Here is Wood Human compared to PS: could be felt all the way to the fricken Allied Shinobi Headquarters?
> And I've already given a scan of the Wood Human in comparison to the Buddah, meaning the meteor is smaller then each of it's hands.  Not to mention the meteors drop slow as fuck, and it takes Madara time to cast the seals to use them.


You do realize that scan is shows Perfect Susano'o two heads higher than Mokujin, right? You honestly can't say they are the 'same size'.

And no, they aren't 'slow as fuck' and Madara summoned both near instantly. Stop downplaying.


> Show me where it says Madara knows how to use every single Rinnegan technique. And even if he could, this is only present with 2 real Rinnegan, as opposed to one fake Rinnegan.  Also show me where it says that the only limitation to  a fake Rinnegan is the summoning of Gedo; one of the most basic Rinnegan techniques.


Madara: Obito, I'll teach you the Uchiha Kinjutsu and the jutsu of the Six Paths...

Madara could use all the Rinnegan techniques, Jutsu of the Six Paths usually means the Six Path Technique or Rikudo no Jutsu (Seelentau clarified that on Narutopedia). And the only limitation of a Edo Tensei Rinnegan was the inability to summon Gedo Mazo, as Son Goku's expression here. 


> Madara dodged Tobirama with his eyes closed soloey relying on his sage sensing. The exact same sage sensing Hashirama has. He could easily replicate that feat.


Madara's sensing is superior to Hashirama. Its Madara's feat, not Hashirama's, and Madara's shown to be better with his reflexes from feats than Hashirama has. So no, you can't apply it to Hashirama.


> Oh look at you. Like using capital letters is going to prove your point or something. If Madara "enjoys " a good fight then you have suddenly lost your whole " he was playing around with Hashirama " statement. He sure as hell wasn't playing around with Gai even though he split him into 2 pieces.


Madara: Hahahahahaha! I thought I was a gonner, you goddamn maniac!

It kind of seems like he was. Madara was enjoying the fight. He was laughing and everything. Madara loves a good fight, and with the case of Hashirama? He didn't even _need_ to win. All he had to do was stab Hashirama once (he did so six times) and he already had his plan in place. Hashirama didn't even know Madara could control him through his chakra, and since Hashirama could heal either way (as an Edo Tense or in life) he wasn't worried about the rods jammed into his back.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

> I clicked on every single link you posted and they hold zero merit. Madara saying he wants to fight Hashirama means what? He was excited to fight red sure Gai ? Us also to note that they were Edo Tensei and death was out of the equation. It's why they were fighting at the center of a quadruple TBN explosion, and continued fighting as if nothing happened. Madara knew very well that Hashirama couldn't actually finish Madara because he's an Edo and Hashirama lacks a sealing Justu.


Why don't they have merit? When Madara is expressing 'I want to fight you' means different. And Madara wanted to fight Hashirama since they had the longest rivalry remember? He expressed ever since he was Edo Tenseied he wish he could fight Hashirama again. That's the point, he wanted to fight Hashirama once more and then become the Juubi Jinchuriki.

You just don't get the significance of things.


> Are you serious ? You are seriously gonna scale Edo Madara with one fake Rinnegan to a Juubi enchnaced ~ Post Juubi tree absorbed ~ 2 real Rinnegan Madara ? That's ridiculous. Edo Madara can easily be scaled to Nagato considering Nagato has 2 freaking Rinnegan opposed to Madara's one, and hasn't even shown the ability to do so.


Funny hwo the only limitation was that Edo Madara couldn't summon Gedo Mazo or become the Juubi Jin in his Edo Tensei state. Everything else he could do. And yes, since he has both Rinnegan (and Obito's words saying that if both Rinnegan were given to Madara, he'd be unstoppable, even without the Juubi), yes he can be scaled to his current feat. 

Nagato isn't even on the level of Edo Madara, so scaling doesn't work and it just shows how much you want to downplay. And alive Madara with one Rinnegan _defeated all nine Biju_, what does that ell you about the scale of their power when Nagato could barely handle Naruto?


> The force and power of meteor is Completley different in this manga. The freaking Buddah statue could pick up the Kyyubi like a doll. The same monster that flattens mountain ranges with his tail. The Buddah is perfectly capable of of tossing that meteor like nothing especially considering it's size compared to a hand on the Buddah.


I'd expect Shinsusenju's arms to start breaking and splintering since _just one meteor impact could be felt all the way to Alliance HQ._ Shinsusenju, despite its size, that's ALL it has. Its inferior to power to Kurama, its inferior to the meteors since none of its attacks could be felt from a country away. 


> Nobody here is talking about living sage Madara. I already agreed to his superiority over Hashirama.


Then why are you applying one of HIS feats to Hashirama?


> Please do explain this perfect moment thing.  Because it seems more like Hashirama was incapable of actually killing Madara and had to resort to perfectly binding him in the wood dragon to win.


The perfect moment: Hashirama thinks he's won, Madara is seemingly defeated, then Madara comes right back to life.


> You have absolutely no proof that Madara could have casually activated those rods. It's highly evident that Madara either  needed his real body to do so, or needed Hashirama in a off guard state to do so.


You do realize those rods are chakra RECEIVERS right? All Madara had to do was start transmitting his chakra. Especially with the close proximity. This was established all the way back to Naruto vs Nagata back in the Pain arc. And Madara only needed a single seal to do it, something he could do at any point since Hashirama had no knowledge.


> Yes he did need to wait for the right moment to switch bodies. But he only has his chance because he was an Edo Tensei with Inifinite chakra and health, and Hashirama lacked a sealing Justu.


Wrong. Madara needed the right moment so he could come back to life and become the Juubi Jin. Do you forget all together that an Edo Tensei can't become a Juubi Jin?

Madara lets Hashirama think he's won, comes back to life and treats Hashirama like a ragdoll since Hashirama didn't have enough sense to remove the chakra disruption blades.
Madara did not keep his preta path ability a secret from Hashirama at all.  





> Hashirama clearly says he needed the wood dragon to negate his preta path: Madara: Hahahahahaha! I thought I was a gonner, you goddamn maniac!


Actually, he was referring to Madara's natural absorption ability, not Preta Path since Preta Path has a very distinct look.


> He was pressuring Madara enough to where he used PS, and didn't have the time to activate.


No, he wasn't. Madara was never 'pressured', he went to Perfect Susano'o since he wanted to, and since he wanted to enjoy the battle. He was fighting the guy he most respected once more and wanted to enjoy things before he became the Juubi Jin. Its clear as day.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 15, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Madara did not win at all by conventional means. He needed to wait till Hashirama was exhausted and thought he was defeated, then swift to his stronger and faster alive body to win. If Hashirama had that luxury over Madara then he would have raped.


Madara never used his Rinnegan abilities against Hashirama which is a fact, he only used his fan and Perfect Susano'o, the only abilities Hashirama had knowledge of. Madara could have easily stopped the entire fight and won the moment he stabbed Hashirama and transmitted his chakra into the receiver and made Hashirama his puppet.


> Saying he wanted to fight Hashirama again proves nothing. You can want to fight someone stronger then you..


It proves EVERYTHING. Madara wanted to fight Hashirama before he became the Juubi Jin. He wanted one last good fight with Hashirama before he did his objective.


> If Naruto with an inferior sage mode can create sage Bunshin, then Hashirama certainly can.  His sage mode was gimped by edo.


1. Naruto's Sage Mode isn't inferior to Hashirama. It has never been shown or stated to be. Both are a Perfect Sage Mode.
2. Hashirama's Sage Mode was never gimped as an Edo Tensei. You claim it but you don't prove it.



> I've never made an statement as ridiculous as you are assuming. Hashirama  > Edo Madara can be backed up by feats.


By feats of a fight Edo Madara wasn't even trying to win? 

He even had two techniques that could have won the fight at any time: Chakra Injection through Chakra Disruption Blades and Human Path. The only reason why he wasn't fighting to win? He needed Hashirama. He needed Hashirama so that when he came back to life, he could steal Hashirama's Sage Mode. He had to keep Hashirama in close proximity and took a fall. At no point did we even get a rant 'after all this time, with all my improvements, Hashirama is still stronger than me?'


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## T-Bag (May 18, 2014)

Madara is too much for him...

No one can stand a chance against Madara Uchiha 1 on 1, even with 1 eye


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## LennySenju (Dec 11, 2021)

Hashirama alive was much much more powerful than in edo tensei, I am sure Hashirama living wise mode dismounted Madara with a pair of rinnegan, the only time Madara passed Hashirama was when he took his senjutsu. Madara is a thief he needed to steal the abilities of others to become strong while Hashirama has trained all his life and developed crazy techniques!
Shinsu Senju catches the meteorites of Madara quietly, with Shinsu Senju, the wooden dragons or the wooden colossus, Hashirama stops the meteorites with his eyes closed.
Ok Madara's perfect susano is bigger than Hashirama's colossus but that doesn't mean anything because Hashirama still slaughtered Madara with perfect susano + kyubi so it's just a formality for him.
Madara edo came back stronger than before while Hashirama edo came back much weaker than before. I also saw that someone said that Madara could use Shinsu Senju but you are crazy !? It takes a minimum of knowledge and power.
Madara may have overtaken Hashirama when he stole his senjutsu, but despite this Hashirama's body is much more powerful and more useful than Madara's.
And Hashirama also captured all the biju and distributed them like a pizza delivery man.

Conclusion:
Hashirama Living Wise Mode (Bounty) defeats Madara Living (Rinnegan Pair).
After when Madara stole Hashirama's senjutsu I admit that he is stronger, especially since already during the war Hashirama was far from his bonus because he was in edo ...


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## Topace (Dec 11, 2021)

What kinda necro…


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## LennySenju (Dec 11, 2021)

Hashirama vivant etait beaucoup beaucoup plus puissant que en edo tensei, je suis certain que Hashirama vivant sage mode demonte Madara avec une paire de rinnegan, le seul moment où Madara a depassé Hashirama c'est quand il a prit son senjutsu. Madara est un voleur il a eu besoin de voler les capacités des autres pour devenir fort alors que Hashirama s'est entrainé toute sa vie et a developpé des techniques de fou ! 
Shinsu Senju attrape les meteorites de Madara tranquillement, avec Shinsu Senju, les dragons de bois ou le colosse de bois, Hashirama arrete les meteorites les yeux fermés.
Ok le susano parfait de Madara est plus grand que le colosse de Hashirama mais ca ne veut rien dire car Hashirama a quand meme massacré Madara avec susano parfait + kyubi donc ce n'est qu'une formalité pour lui. 
Madara edo est revenu plus fort qu'avant alors que Hashirama edo est revenu bien moins fort qu'avant. J'ai aussi vu que quelqu'un a dit que Madara pourrait utiliser Shinsu Senju mais vous etes fou !? Il faut un minimum de connaissances et de puissance. 
Madara a beau avoir depassé Hashirama quand il lui a volé son senjutsu mais malgré ca le corps de Hashirama est bien plus puissant et plus utile que celui de Madara.
Et Hashirama aussi a capturé tous les bijuus et les a distribué comme un livreur de pizzas.

Conclusion: 
Hashirama vivant sage mode (prime) bat Madara vivant (paire de Rinnegan).
Apres quand Madara a volé le senjutsu de Hashirama j'avoue qu'il est plus fort, surtout que deja pendant la guerre Hashirama etait loin de son prime car il etait en edo...


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## dergeist (Dec 11, 2021)

Who necrod this thread, and this Madara fodderstomps living Hashi (enough was already close to full power). Hashi confirmed even with his SM stack Madara was regaining his former power (EMS power at best).


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## MYGod000 (Dec 11, 2021)

We have Bots and Alts Reviving a 2014 Thread...


1 Rinnegan alive Madara Gives Hashirama the EMS sasuke Treatment.

SM Hashirama was taken to  Extremely Diff with EMS Madara...Per Canon Alive Rinnegan Madara>EMS Madara. 

Limbo one shots Hashirama.


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## dabi (Dec 11, 2021)

LennySenju said:


> Hashirama alive was much much more powerful than in edo tensei, I am sure Hashirama living wise mode dismounted Madara with a pair of rinnegan, the only time Madara passed Hashirama was when he took his senjutsu. Madara is a thief he needed to steal the abilities of others to become strong while Hashirama has trained all his life and developed crazy techniques!
> Shinsu Senju catches the meteorites of Madara quietly, with Shinsu Senju, the wooden dragons or the wooden colossus, Hashirama stops the meteorites with his eyes closed.
> Ok Madara's perfect susano is bigger than Hashirama's colossus but that doesn't mean anything because Hashirama still slaughtered Madara with perfect susano + kyubi so it's just a formality for him.
> Madara edo came back stronger than before while Hashirama edo came back much weaker than before. I also saw that someone said that Madara could use Shinsu Senju but you are crazy !? It takes a minimum of knowledge and power.
> ...





LennySenju said:


> Hashirama vivant etait beaucoup beaucoup plus puissant que en edo tensei, je suis certain que Hashirama vivant sage mode demonte Madara avec une paire de rinnegan, le seul moment où Madara a depassé Hashirama c'est quand il a prit son senjutsu. Madara est un voleur il a eu besoin de voler les capacités des autres pour devenir fort alors que Hashirama s'est entrainé toute sa vie et a developpé des techniques de fou !
> Shinsu Senju attrape les meteorites de Madara tranquillement, avec Shinsu Senju, les dragons de bois ou le colosse de bois, Hashirama arrete les meteorites les yeux fermés.
> Ok le susano parfait de Madara est plus grand que le colosse de Hashirama mais ca ne veut rien dire car Hashirama a quand meme massacré Madara avec susano parfait + kyubi donc ce n'est qu'une formalité pour lui.
> Madara edo est revenu plus fort qu'avant alors que Hashirama edo est revenu bien moins fort qu'avant. J'ai aussi vu que quelqu'un a dit que Madara pourrait utiliser Shinsu Senju mais vous etes fou !? Il faut un minimum de connaissances et de puissance.
> ...


@FlamingRain @LostSelf  Ban this dupe

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Colmillo (Dec 11, 2021)

Nice necro

Reactions: Like 1


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