# Sennin Naruto vs Dark Sasuke



## Khazzar (Sep 30, 2009)

Khazzar's Naruto vs Sasuke ultimate brawl. Read carefully and obbey the rules/debate accordingly!
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Distance* : 50 m

*Rules/Regulations/Restrictions* : Naruto starts in Sage Mode. He has 1 more clone in reserve. He can use all variants of Rasengan,FR,FRS,and all feints/tricks he has shown in the manga,however,all of his summons are restricted. Sasuke starts with dark chakra within. He can use all of his lightning and fire jutsu,along with his Kusanagi sword battle style and all feats/tricks he has shown in the manga,he can also use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu to his chakra limits but his Susano'o is banned.

*Knowledge* : Naruto has knowledge on Sasuke's genjutsu,Sasuke knows Naruto is pro at Kage Bunshin usage,and he knows he should avoid Taijutsu. None other then that!

*State of Mind* : Intent to kill ( both bloodlusted ).





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VS


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## Csdabest (Sep 30, 2009)

Sasuke wins with Mid-High Difficulty. If Naruto comes anywhere near Sasuke he can simply Use amaterasu to protect him. or simply get naruto in range and hit with Amaterasu. Once Naruto is out of Sage mode. seeing how fatigue he is when he gets out of it. I doubt Sasuke will give Naruto time to pull out his scroll and summon the researve Naruto back. So Naruto either goes down in SM or goes down definetly when he gets out of it.


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## EJ (Sep 30, 2009)

Put Susanno back in plz,

debating will be alot easier.


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## Csdabest (Sep 30, 2009)

Espionage said:


> Put Susanno back in plz,
> 
> debating will be alot easier.



Of course. Because then it would be. Sasuke wins with ease.


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## DarkRasengan (Sep 30, 2009)

Naruto wins with ghost punch to rasengan combo.


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## Turrin (Oct 1, 2009)

Here's the problem. Sasuke has no knowledge on Naruto's Ghost Punches and Naruto starts out in Sannin Mode. Sasuke is going to be one Shotted by the Ghost Punches breaking his neck almost instantly. If Through Some magical means he survives that FRS's Expanding effect would kill him. Even if Sasuke did have susano'o unrestricted he is not yet on Naruto's level as it seems he has yet to Master Susano'o or MS Genjutsu: Tskuyomi.


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## knives907 (Oct 1, 2009)

Even with susano'o, Sasuke would lose
The difference between the battle of Raikage blitzing Sasuke and Naruto blitzing Sasuke is that Naruto wouldn't lose his arm. Naruto has a natural energy shroud which a lot of people forget about. Naruto also comes up with strategies that Raikage couldn't dream of. Raikage is a straight up idiot fighter, a lot like Naruto of Pt 1. Naruto has shown the ability to come up with plans.

In other words Sasuke will scramble the same way he did against raikage, eventually breaking out ameterasu coated susano'o. Naruto with respond with FRS that will feed on ameterasu and cause a catastrophic explosion in Sasuke's face.

That's assuming that SM Naruto doesn't use FRS quicker than that(which is a possibility) in which case it'd be over faster.


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## Animus (Oct 1, 2009)

Naruto wins with mild difficulty.

- Naruto uses smoke bombs
Naruto throws a FRS at Sasuke (he can sense his presence in sennin mode).

GG.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 1, 2009)

Csdabest said:


> Sasuke wins with Mid-High Difficulty. If Naruto comes anywhere near Sasuke he can simply Use amaterasu to protect him. or simply get naruto in range and hit with Amaterasu. Once Naruto is out of Sage mode. seeing how fatigue he is when he gets out of it. I doubt Sasuke will give Naruto time to pull out his scroll and summon the researve Naruto back. So Naruto either goes down in SM or goes down definetly when he gets out of it.



It won't be that easy at all, I tell you. Actually, with Susanoo gone, Sasuke is basically screwed against Naruto. 

Naruto, having knowledge on Tsukuyomi and Sasuke's other Sharingan Genjutsu, will have his eyes closed and be able to sense his chakra through Sage Mode, very easily. This negates Tsukuyomi entirely, Sage Mode is literally the perfect counter to Sharingan Genjutsu.

Amaterasu, too, isn't much of a problem, as Naruto can simply use a Kage Bunshin fast to take the fire attack for him, while he swoops down upon and rams Sasuke flying for a OHKO with a single kick, while also knocking his eyes out. We have already seen how Jiraiya managed to easily blow the eyes out of Human Realm Pain with a single physical strike in Hermit Mode.

Chidori? In base, I'd say Chidori has a very high advantage, but Sage Mode totally negates that. Chidori Nagashi won't really hurt SM Naruto much, Chidori Katana can be dodged or blocked easily and Chidori Senbon ain't gonna do any better, against someone who survived quite a high fall down onto a hard surface of rock without any damage at all.

Plus, I haven't even started mentioning what Naruto could do back to Sasuke with Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, which can also easily nullify Sasuke's Raiton techniques, as Fuuton > Raiton by the laws of the elemental chart. Plus, the Rasenshuriken is enhanced by the power of Sage Mode and can be thrown, which should not only make Chidori Katana useless but also take Sasuke out at the same time.

Or Naruto can simply make use of the speed boost from Sage Mode, blitz Sasuke, and quickly break his hand with a single punch with the strength boost from SM, and go for the kill right afterward with a second strike. 

Actually, many people underestimate Naruto's brute strength and that he can easily take someone out immediately with just a single punch, which is enough to take out most shinobi easily given it smashed Asura to pieces, Asura who tanked Kakashi's Raikiri, and extremely powerful physical strikes from Chouza and Chouji all at the same time, all of which are able to crush through rock-hard defences easily. The Frog Katas only make this even easier a win.

Naruto wins, hands down. Very easily.


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## mastergimmy (Oct 1, 2009)

It depends i rekon on who is ganna use ther ultimate jutsus first. sasuke for amaterasu and naruto for FRS, superhuman strength etc


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## ? (Oct 1, 2009)

he one shots uchiha with frog katas.


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## bobomb (Oct 1, 2009)

Itachi was fully prepared for a fight between Naruto and Sasuke, as Itachi gave Naruto some of his power.

Now what could Naruto have gotten from Itachi... hmm... the Sharingan? Any of Itachi's other eye techniques? Hmm... Interesting. I think Naruto is way more prepared for this fight than Sasuke is, especially without Susanoo.


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## Mio (Oct 1, 2009)

Shinobi Naruto said:


> Naruto, having knowledge on Tsukuyomi and Sasuke's other Sharingan Genjutsu, will have his eyes closed and be able to sense his chakra through Sage Mode, very easily. This negates Tsukuyomi entirely, Sage Mode is literally the perfect counter to Sharingan Genjutsu.


Right, expect Sasuke to cut Naruto in pieces. Sage Mode can locate Sasuke's Location but not show his movements. So Nartuo gets Genjutsu rapes or chopped.



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Amaterasu, too, isn't much of a problem, as Naruto can simply use a Kage Bunshin fast to take the fire attack for him, while he swoops down upon and rams Sasuke flying for a OHKO with a single kick, while also knocking his eyes out. We have already seen how Jiraiya managed to easily blow the eyes out of Human Realm Pain with a single physical strike in Hermit Mode.


Amaterasu is too fast for Naruto to react. The Raikage had enhanced reflexes with his Raiton Shroud. Naruto gets hitted easily with no way to put the flames out.



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Chidori? In base, I'd say Chidori has a very high advantage, but Sage Mode totally negates that. Chidori Nagashi won't really hurt SM Naruto much, Chidori Katana can be dodged or blocked easily and Chidori Senbon ain't gonna do any better, against someone who survived quite a high fall down onto a hard surface of rock without any damage at all.


 Chidori Nagashi would still paralyze him, giving Sasuke a chance to make short work of Naruto. Chidori Katana won't be dodged when Sasuke has the Sharingan, which predicts Naruto's movements. Chidori Senbon and Chidori Katana are sharper than rocks by a mile, Chidori sliced iron like butter. Pain's rods pierced Sage Naruto, Chidori would slice easily through him. You overate Naruto's durability.



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Plus, I haven't even started mentioning what Naruto could do back to Sasuke with Fuuton: Rasenshuriken, which can also easily nullify Sasuke's Raiton techniques, as Fuuton > Raiton by the laws of the elemental chart. Plus, the Rasenshuriken is enhanced by the power of Sage Mode and can be thrown, which should not only make Chidori Katana useless but also take Sasuke out at the same time.


So if we want to go by charts, Amaterasu > FRS. 



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Or Naruto can simply make use of the speed boost from Sage Mode, blitz Sasuke, and quickly break his hand with a single punch with the strength boost from SM, and go for the kill right afterward with a second strike.


With the Sharingan Sasuke will see Nartuo's movement easily and also Part 2 Sasuke never fought once hand-to-hand when he had his sword, his Chidori Katana would slice Naruto's punch in half.



Shinobi Naruto said:


> Actually, many people underestimate Naruto's brute strength and that he can easily take someone out immediately with just a single punch, which is enough to take out most shinobi easily given it smashed Asura to pieces, Asura who tanked Kakashi's Raikiri, and extremely powerful physical strikes from Chouza and Chouji all at the same time, all of which are able to crush through rock-hard defences easily. The Frog Katas only make this even easier a win.


That was Rasengan.


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## Black Sabbath II (Oct 1, 2009)

Naruto wins with high difficulty, simply because Sasuke doesn't have Susano'o. If he DARED to use Susano'o  against SM Naruto he'd be fucked. Just a giant target for his Fuutonrasen Shuriken to hit. Let's see Susano'o stop THAT.

If Sasuke gets a genjutsu in though Naruto would be screwed as Naruto seems to be suckered into Uchih@x genjutsus allot.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 1, 2009)

♠Ace♠ said:


> Once Susano-o was removed, Sasuke was fucked.



Pretty much this.

Sasuke ain't durable enough to take a natural energy shroud punch and continue fighting. This battle will be a few seconds long. Either Naruto one shots Sasuke with the aforementioned natural energy punch or Sasuke one shots him with Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu.

And considering the likelihood of Naruto starting with a punch to the face is higher than Sasuke starting with MS (he tends to try Chidori first, then jump to MS), I'm betting on Naruto in most scenarios. Give Sasuke Susanoo and the battle goes heavily into Sasuke's favour as he just has to get a little Amaterasu on Naruto and let him burn to death. After all, Naruto's only jutsu that will breach Sasuke's incomplete Susanoo is FRS (I'm not talking about the bones one, but the one with flesh and a sword). Hopefully Sasuke won't be stupid enough to try and tank it with Susanoo. If he does he'll probably die, resulting in a draw as both combatants kill each other.


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## Mio (Oct 1, 2009)

For me, Naruto takes it only because of his Ghost Punches.

If Sasuke wasn't nerfed, Ghost Punches or not, Sasuke rapes with Susano'o.


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## Khazzar (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> For me, Naruto takes it only because of his Ghost Punches.
> 
> If Sasuke wasn't nerfed, Ghost Punches or not, Sasuke rapes with Susano'o.



Now Mio,wait for a second. Both are nerfed. I made it a fair fight.


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## knives907 (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> For me, Naruto takes it only because of his Ghost Punches.
> 
> If Sasuke wasn't nerfed, Ghost Punches or not, Sasuke rapes with Susano'o.



Yeah, cause susano'o can tank FRS with no shield.  . Especially since the most it's been seen to block is a few b-a rank jutsus. FRS is SS rank, and will slice through Susano'o.


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## Mio (Oct 1, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> Now Mio,wait for a second. Both are nerfed. I made it a fair fight.


You mean the summons? They don't make a single difference. Sasuke can take them out with Amaterasu and Naruto doesn't even need them in first place, he can take out Sasuke alone without Susano'o.



knives907 said:


> Yeah, cause susano'o can tank FRS with no shield.  . Especially since the most it's been seen to block is a few b-a rank jutsus. FRS is SS rank, and will slice through Susano'o.


Sasuke can avoid it easily with his Sharingan and Speed, he doesn't need Susano'o for that.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 1, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Yeah, cause susano'o can tank FRS with no shield.  . Especially since the most it's been seen to block is a few b-a rank jutsus. FRS is SS rank, and will slice through Susano'o.



An incomplete, still forming Susanoo tanked Kirin. FRS ain't that much more powerful. You do the math.

Having said that, Sasuke's Susanoo use is craptacular compared to Itachi's, so I'm pretty sure FRS would slice through his Susanoo.

I stand by my original post


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## Khazzar (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> You mean the summons? They don't make a single difference. Sasuke can take them out with Amaterasu and Naruto doesn't even need them in first place, he can take out Sasuke alone without Susano'o.



No he can't take 3 Boss summons with amaterasu. Wake up. Agreed on the fact he would burn the fuck out of any of them,but he can't spam it like bullets. Naruto and his frogs were able to summon 3 Titan Toads + Ma and Pa. Frog genjutsu may be the most powerfull Sennin feat,and yet i restricted it along with the summons.


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## Mio (Oct 1, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> No he can't take 3 Boss summons with amaterasu. Wake up. Agreed on the fact he would burn the fuck out of any of them,but he can't spam it like bullets. Naruto and his frogs were able to summon 3 Titan Toads + Ma and Pa. Frog genjutsu may be the most powerfull Sennin feat,and yet i restricted it along with the summons.


He only needs one Amaterasu then use Enton: Kagutsuchi to spread it among the three of them.


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## Khazzar (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> He only needs one Amaterasu then use Enton: Kagutsuchi to spread it among the three of them.



Which leaves him open for ass-slap by Sennin Naruto. Seriously i doubt he would do that rather then just fire it at them. You used your imagination for example. It's good but not realistic in my mind. He doesnt have the power the spread flames around 3 Bijuu-sized Toads,unless Manga proves otherwise. Also,IF that is remotely possible - he gets raped if he forgets to use the flames protection-wise against Naruto and Ma & Pa combo.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 1, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> Which leaves him open for ass-slap by Sennin Naruto. Seriously i doubt he would do that rather then just fire it at them. You used your imagination for example. It's good but not realistic in my mind. He doesnt have the power the spread flames around 3 Bijuu-sized Toads,unless Manga proves otherwise. Also,IF that is remotely possible - he gets raped if he forgets to use the flames protection-wise against Naruto and Ma & Pa combo.



He gets the flames on them, just a little, and they spread surprisingly quickly.

Still doesn't save him from natural energy shroud punch though


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## Khazzar (Oct 1, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> He gets the flames on them, just a little, and they spread surprisingly quickly.
> 
> Still doesn't save him from natural energy shroud punch though



Well,exactly. My point is - even if he manages to pull it off,he's fucked. That preety much explains why he wouldn't try it in the first place.


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## knives907 (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> Sasuke can avoid it easily with his Sharingan and Speed, he doesn't need Susano'o for that.



Okay, he jumps like Deva and takes double rasengan combo.  Or shunshins + is outnumbered by Kb and then gets hit by rasengan. Or Naruto throws a smoke bomb first +then Sasuke can't see shit (Naruto senses him)...

Easy enough.



> An incomplete, still forming Susanoo tanked Kirin. FRS ain't that much more powerful. You do the math.
> 
> Having said that, Sasuke's Susanoo use is craptacular compared to Itachi's, so I'm pretty sure FRS would slice through his Susanoo.
> 
> I stand by my original post



I agree that most likely Itachi's susano'o could tank, but Sasuke's shown so much variance from Itachi's techniques(as in his ameterasu does shit, and his susano'o is completely different, and him having no tsukiyomi and instead kagutsuchi) that it doesn't really matter anyways. Sasuke's ameterasu sucks. His susano'o has been unimpressive really(though to be fair it hasn't been out for very long)


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## Vergil642 (Oct 1, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Okay, he jumps like Deva and takes double rasengan combo.  Or shunshins + is outnumbered by Kb and then gets hit by rasengan. Or Naruto throws a smoke bomb first +then Sasuke can't see shit (Naruto senses him)...
> 
> Easy enough.



Sasuke jumps, sees Naruto coming, cuts Naruto down with Chidori Eisou, or fries him with Amaterasu. Being outnumbered by KBs means pretty much nothing; the more KBs there are the weaker they are and Naruto isn't even able to use that many in SM.

And Sasuke sees through the smoke bomb with his Sharingan, seeing Naruto's chakra.



> I agree that most likely Itachi's susano'o could tank, but Sasuke's shown so much variance from Itachi's techniques(as in his ameterasu does shit, and his susano'o is completely different, and him having no tsukiyomi and instead kagutsuchi) that it doesn't really matter anyways. Sasuke's ameterasu sucks. His susano'o has been unimpressive really(though to be fair it hasn't been out for very long)



Then we agree here, except on the Amaterasu front. It's not so much his Amaterasu sucks, as it is Raikage's only been hit by the afterflames, which lack the destructive potency of a freshly ignited Amaterasu.

Also, considering Deva could block SM Naruto's punches, I'm changing my mind. Sasuke survives the initial natural energy punch, then proceeds to win via Amaterasu's flames killing Naruto, or after paralysing him with Genjutsu stabbing him in the face with a Chidori.


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## Shoddragon (Oct 1, 2009)

Mio said:


> You mean the summons? They don't make a single difference. Sasuke can take them out with Amaterasu and Naruto doesn't even need them in first place, he can take out Sasuke alone without Susano'o.
> 
> *Sasuke can avoid it easily with his Sharingan and Speed, he doesn't need Susano'o for that.*



jesus christ one of the most sasuke-biased comments I have ever seen. Naruto is faster than sasuke. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR faster. sasuke is NOT dodging his movements. its going to be the same as KN0 naruto vs 2 tomoe sharingan sasuke all over again. sasuke isn't dodging naruto's attacks because naruto is a lot faster. he speedblitzed pain.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 1, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> jesus christ one of the most sasuke-biased comments I have ever seen. Naruto is faster than sasuke. FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR faster. sasuke is NOT dodging his movements. its going to be the same as KN0 naruto vs 2 tomoe sharingan sasuke all over again. sasuke isn't dodging naruto's attacks because naruto is a lot faster. he speedblitzed pain.



He did that once and later on, Deva Realm reacted to his close combat attacks to the point of blocking them. This means that isn't a pure speed feat; he had the element of surprise as well.

You vastly overrate SM Naruto's speed.


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## Shoddragon (Oct 1, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> He did that once and later on, Deva Realm reacted to his close combat attacks to the point of blocking them. This means that isn't a pure speed feat; he had the element of surprise as well.
> 
> You vastly overrate SM Naruto's speed.



your vastly underestimating his speed. even in base mode he was beating pain in taijutsu.


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## Alenius (Oct 1, 2009)

Hm so Sasuke = amaterasu+Susanoo
Sasuke-amaterasu/susanoo= Useless

Wow, so amaterasu is the only thing Sasuke will use?
The attack sucks!


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## knives907 (Oct 1, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> Sasuke jumps, sees Naruto coming, cuts Naruto down with Chidori Eisou, or fries him with Amaterasu. Being outnumbered by KBs means pretty much nothing; the more KBs there are the weaker they are and Naruto isn't even able to use that many in SM.
> 
> And Sasuke sees through the smoke bomb with his Sharingan, seeing Naruto's chakra.



Sees him coming in a smoke bomb or from above him when the man with 4 people looking at him with shared vision didn't? Unlikely.
Smoke bomb can't see through smoke. It can't see through mist either. Refer to Zabuza vs. Kakashi. Also refer to Shouten Itachi vs. Kakashi to see that Sharingan can not see through objects. 

In other words, Sasuke was blessed with the sharingan, not the byakugan.



> Then we agree here, except on the Amaterasu front. It's not so much his Amaterasu sucks, as it is Raikage's only been hit by the afterflames, which lack the destructive potency of a freshly ignited Amaterasu.



Sasuke's ameterasu has does nothing worth mentioning.



> Also, considering Deva could block SM Naruto's punches, I'm changing my mind. Sasuke survives the initial natural energy punch, then proceeds to win via Amaterasu's flames killing Naruto, or after paralysing him with Genjutsu stabbing him in the face with a Chidori.



Sasuke has never shown strength feats. He doesn't have the strength to block a ghost punch.

Like I've stated, Ameterasu has does nothing whilst Sasuke's been using it. Naruto throws FRS right through it and Sasuke gets burned and cup up at the same time .
Genjutsu is Sasuke's best choice which is questionable since now Naruto has an outside source of chakra running through him(natural energy) which should be able to get him out of the genjutsu. Actually, in theory having a KB out should be able to free him from any genjutsu that takes longer than a few seconds. Considering Sasuke doesn't have tsukiyomi it's possible.


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## Khazzar (Oct 2, 2009)

Sharingan cannot see through the smoke bombs. It's a lie.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 2, 2009)

Shoddragon said:


> your vastly underestimating his speed. even in base mode he was beating pain in taijutsu.



Amazing, really. Pain's not got any noteworthy speed feats to indicate he's anything more than a high level ninja in terms of reactions. Sasuke's not only faster but he's got a super eye that magically enhances his reactions by a huge degree. Naruto only managing to "blitz" one body under very specific circumstances and being unable to blitz another under more normal ones doesn't mean he's going to blitz Sasuke.



knives907 said:


> Sees him coming in a smoke bomb or from above him when the man with 4 people looking at him with shared vision didn't? Unlikely.
> Smoke bomb can't see through smoke. It can't see through mist either. Refer to Zabuza vs. Kakashi. Also refer to Shouten Itachi vs. Kakashi to see that Sharingan can not see through objects.
> 
> In other words, Sasuke was blessed with the sharingan, not the byakugan.



For a start, it can't see through a Ninjutsu mist. It can see through the earth, as Sasuke showed in his battle with Deidara (and let's not start me off on Shouten Itachi Vs Kakashi, I'd rather not have to explain the horridly long list of reasons why that fight's unreliable for feats) and I'm pretty confident seeing through smoke is easier than earth.

And Sasuke can see Naruto's chakra through the smoke. I apologise if I was being unclear about that. He's not going to just see everything through it.



> Sasuke's ameterasu has does nothing worth mentioning.



Except force Raikage to cut off his own arm.



> Sasuke has never shown strength feats. He doesn't have the strength to block a ghost punch.
> 
> Like I've stated, Ameterasu has does nothing whilst Sasuke's been using it. Naruto throws FRS right through it and Sasuke gets burned and cup up at the same time .
> Genjutsu is Sasuke's best choice which is questionable since now Naruto has an outside source of chakra running through him(natural energy) which should be able to get him out of the genjutsu. Actually, in theory having a KB out should be able to free him from any genjutsu that takes longer than a few seconds. Considering Sasuke doesn't have tsukiyomi it's possible.



Yet somehow Deva realm had the strength to block SM Naruto's punches. All Sasuke has to do is survive it without being killed. Once he does that, MS comes out and Naruto starts getting killed. Naruto isn't throwing FRS through Amaterasu either, as it will appear on him as he lacks the speed to aimdodge it. If the initial burst doesn't kill/incapcitate then kill him, the flames will simply burn him to death over time. All Sasuke has to do then is keep himself away from Naruto which can be done by simply running.

Naruto hasn't got an outside source of chakra running through him. It's called Natural Energy specifically because it's analogous to Physical and Spiritual Energy. Saying Natural Energy can break Naruto out of Genjutsu is like saying Physical Energy can. It's simply incorrect. Naruto's chakra is also not being disturbed. If it was he'd be unable to form any jutsu. This means he's as susceptible as any other time to Genjutsu.

And didn't OP say Sasuke gets Tsukuyomi for the match?


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## knives907 (Oct 2, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> For a start, it can't see through a Ninjutsu mist. It can see through the earth, as Sasuke showed in his battle with Deidara (and let's not start me off on Shouten Itachi Vs Kakashi, I'd rather not have to explain the horridly long list of reasons why that fight's unreliable for feats) and I'm pretty confident seeing through smoke is easier than earth.



Unreliable feat is unreliable. Those things must've been OOZing chakra because more often than not, the Sharingan has failed to see chakra through objects. Itachi vs. kakashi, and Kakashi vs. Zabuza display this.



> And Sasuke can see Naruto's chakra through the smoke. I apologise if I was being unclear about that. He's not going to just see everything through it.



Kakashi couldn't see Zabuza's through mist. I don't see thick mist differing from thick smoke much.




> Except force Raikage to cut off his own arm.


He didn't seem like he was in pain. He just needed Shi to heal it before it spread. Even a samurai and inanimate objects survive ameterasu easily(samurai armor for instance). Using it as a match ender is folly.




> Yet somehow Deva realm had the strength to block SM Naruto's punches. All Sasuke has to do is survive it without being killed. Once he does that, MS comes out and Naruto starts getting killed. Naruto isn't throwing FRS through Amaterasu either, as it will appear on him as he lacks the speed to aimdodge it. If the initial burst doesn't kill/incapcitate then kill him, the flames will simply burn him to death over time. All Sasuke has to do then is keep himself away from Naruto which can be done by simply running.



SM has insane durability. Even samurai fodder have the durability to survive ameterasu through an entire fight of raikage vs. sasuke.



> Naruto hasn't got an outside source of chakra running through him. It's called Natural Energy specifically because it's analogous to Physical and Spiritual Energy. Saying Natural Energy can break Naruto out of Genjutsu is like saying Physical Energy can. It's simply incorrect. Naruto's chakra is also not being disturbed. If it was he'd be unable to form any jutsu. This means he's as susceptible as any other time to Genjutsu.
> 
> And didn't OP say Sasuke gets Tsukuyomi for the match?



Clones can run chakra through him. I don't understand why tsukiyomi would be included, since he's never shown the ability, but even assuming he does, he doesn't know how to use it well obviously since the only time it's been supposedly shown, Killerbee tanked it.


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## Vergil642 (Oct 2, 2009)

knives907 said:


> Unreliable feat is unreliable. Those things must've been OOZing chakra because more often than not, the Sharingan has failed to see chakra through objects. Itachi vs. kakashi, and Kakashi vs. Zabuza display this.



It's not unreliable. Itachi in his Shouten fight with Kakashi was very likely not fighting to win (just look at his performance, it resembles his performance against Sasuke a heck of a lot, he has no reason to try and win, has a number of excuses as to why he lost and would be acting OOC to try and win anyway) and Kakashi couldn't see through a chakra produced mist. We've never seen the Sharingan see directly through a Ninjutsu, which is exactly what that mist was. It's all entirely in keeping with other feats.



> Kakashi couldn't see Zabuza's through mist. I don't see thick mist differing from thick smoke much.



See above for my argument here.



> He didn't seem like he was in pain. He just needed Shi to heal it before it spread. Even a samurai and inanimate objects survive ameterasu easily(samurai armor for instance). Using it as a match ender is folly.



It's Raikage, he didn't even flinch when Sasuke stuck his fingers into his chest. Or when he cut off his own arm. The guy has insane pain resistance. Amaterasu's afterflames also lack the destructive potency of the flames when freshly ignited on a target. This is an easy and logical way to explain how the _fireproof_ frog throat and Sasuke got burned up so quickly and easily while Karin, the Samurai and Raikage's arm didn't; they got hit by the afterflames.



> SM has insane durability. Even samurai fodder have the durability to survive ameterasu through an entire fight of raikage vs. sasuke.



Samurai armour has the durability to not get immediately incinerated by something that burns as destructively as a normal fire. Naruto will, over time, be overcome by the flames. And that's assuming he doesn't get killed by a freshly ignited Amaterasu, or Sasuke using Kagatsuchi to make Amaterasu spear him to death.



> Clones can run chakra through him. I don't understand why tsukiyomi would be included, since he's never shown the ability, but even assuming he does, he doesn't know how to use it well obviously since the only time it's been supposedly shown, Killerbee tanked it.



Yeah, KBs can do that, but they have to get to Naruto before Sasuke does. As KBs can't telepathically communicate with their creator, this is just as much a problem as a normal teammate not knowing if their ally is Genjutsu'd.

And Bee didn't tank Tsukuyomi, his Bijuu broke him out of an unknown Genjutsu/MS Genjutsu.


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## LordUchiha (Oct 2, 2009)

Biased adjective definition favoring one person over another aka this thread lol. I wont even debate enjoy the roller coaster.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 2, 2009)

Mio said:


> You mean the summons? They don't make a single difference. Sasuke can take them out with Amaterasu and Naruto doesn't even need them in first place, he can take out Sasuke alone without Susano'o.
> 
> Sasuke can avoid it easily with his Sharingan and Speed, he doesn't need Susano'o for that.



You believe it is so easy for Sasuke to simply speedblitz three, building-size toads, in particular Gamabunta who had prodigious combat experience, just as if they were mere shinobi? 

Rubbish. Naruto would simply get in the way and knock Sasuke flying into the other side of the battlefield with a hard, flying kick, which could smash his bones very easily and knock him out instantly, given how he shattered even Asura so easily with a single strike despite Asura having survived Kakashi's Raikiri and the combined Giant Punches of Chouza and Chouji all at the same time. Not to mention all three attacks are capable of punching clean through steel or at the very least, rock. Asura tanked all three of them, and yet he was easily smashed into bits by a single attack from Naruto.

He barely even needs the Boss Summons, and even if he Summoned them for whatever reason, he could himself get in the way of Sasuke and OHKO him with a single punch. Naruto is incredibly fast in Sage Mode, enough to confound Pain once, Pain who seemed to have incredible reaction time and could have probably dodged even Kakashi's Raikiri at quite a close distance. 

He is faster than Sasuke, although the speed gap is not as insurmountable as that between Two-Tomoe Sharingan Sasuke and KN0 Naruto back at the Valley of the End.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 2, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> It's not unreliable. Itachi in his Shouten fight with Kakashi was very likely not fighting to win (just look at his performance, it resembles his performance against Sasuke a heck of a lot, he has no reason to try and win, has a number of excuses as to why he lost and would be acting OOC to try and win anyway) and Kakashi couldn't see through a chakra produced mist. We've never seen the Sharingan see directly through a Ninjutsu, which is exactly what that mist was. It's all entirely in keeping with other feats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And Sage Naruto himself has highly impressive durability, too.

And how do you know that Itachi, while sick, wasn't fighting seriously with Sasuke? He was probably taking a different fighting stance because of the combined factors that he was, of course, sick, and plus he would still be forced to give his all against Sasuke.

Remember, it doesn't make sense for someone not to be fighting at their best against someone, when they are badly disadvantaged, as Itachi was. I believe Itachi was battling Sasuke with the intent to kill, but also the intent to hold back from actually killing Sasuke, while he was sick, to force Orochimaru out of him and allow him to truly win the battle. He even used all three of his MS techniques to stand a chance against him then.

I believe that even if Itachi were well, I'd say there would still be a 55% chance of Itachi still being forced to pull Susanoo out at the end if he were well, or if he were intending to truly kill Sasuke. Even with both together, there would still be a chance, albeit not large.

It only makes sense that Itachi would need his full power and killing intent to keep up with Sasuke, if not actual killing intent. You know, he needed to attack him in the same way Naruto and Sakura had to come at Kakashi with the intent to kill him during their bell test, but would hold back from actually killing him once they were down.


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## Khazzar (Oct 3, 2009)

LordUchiha said:


> Biased adjective definition favoring one person over another aka this thread lol. I wont even debate enjoy the roller coaster.



No favoritism here. The fight is fair and may very well reveal which1 is stronger at the moment.


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## the box (Oct 3, 2009)

you might want to give sasuke back his jutsu or naruto is going to stomp with a simple punch to the face



Mio said:


> Right, expect Sasuke to cut Naruto in pieces. Sage Mode can locate Sasuke's Location but not show his movements. So Nartuo gets Genjutsu rapes or chopped.



lol sasuke isnt big on the genjutsu when fighting strong people(killer bee,mizukage,ect)



> Amaterasu is too fast for Naruto to react. The Raikage had enhanced reflexes with his Raiton Shroud. Naruto gets hitted easily with no way to put the flames out.



lol naruto can dodge or KB that shit jutsu, even if it does hit him all he has to do is take off his jacket 



> Chidori Nagashi would still paralyze him, giving Sasuke a chance to make short work of Naruto. Chidori Katana won't be dodged when Sasuke has the Sharingan, *which predicts Naruto's movement*s. Chidori Senbon and Chidori Katana are sharper than rocks by a mile, Chidori sliced iron like butter. Pain's rods pierced Sage Naruto, Chidori would slice easily through him. You overate Naruto's durability.



that sword isnt cutting naruto, not only that. but sharingan prediction dos rent mean shit in this fight. naruto can miss him and still kill him with a simple punch 




> So if we want to go by charts, Amaterasu > FRS.



proof?  or LOL UCHIHA 



> With the Sharingan Sasuke will see Nartuo's movement easily and also Part 2 Sasuke never fought once hand-to-hand when he had his sword, his Chidori Katana would slice Naruto's punch in half.
> 
> That was Rasengan.




narutos punch would hit sasuke before the sword hit him


SM>>>sasuke


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## TheGreen1 (Oct 3, 2009)

Vergil642 said:


> An incomplete, still forming Susanoo tanked Kirin. FRS ain't that much more powerful. You do the math.
> 
> Having said that, Sasuke's Susanoo use is craptacular compared to Itachi's, so I'm pretty sure FRS would slice through his Susanoo.
> 
> I stand by my original post



Well, there's a difference in the user of the jutsu. That incomplete and still forming Susano'o belonged to a MASTER of the jutsu (Itachi) vs the AMATURE (Sasuke) who's been using it to fight with the Raikage.

Anyways, Sasuke is the type that charges in. (We've seen that with the 5 Kage Meeting as well.) So, if Naruto's not pulling any punches, then he'll send a serious frog Kata enhanced punch to Sasuke's pretty-boy face, either knocking Sasuke out, or most likely killing him.


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## Khazzar (Oct 19, 2009)

the box said:


> you might want to give sasuke back his jutsu or naruto is going to stomp with a simple punch to the face



Thy only jutsu i took away is Susano'o. Do you want to say Sasuke can't do shit without Susano'o?


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## G-Man (Oct 20, 2009)

I'd say Sasuke loses even with Susanoo.

He tries to fight like Naruto, when he isn't a vessel, and trying to win a contest of stamina by spamming high-level jutsu left and right won't win this for him.  That's Naruto's gimmick and he's the undisputed king of it now that Nagato is dead.

I'm amazed at how people expect Naruto to simply stand there and get hit by Chidori Eisou or Chidori Senbon.  We've only seen Sasuke connect with those attacks in two instances.  One, the opponent was huge and slow-moving (Deidara's dragon and Kirabi's bijuu form), and two when the enemy let it hit (Itachi's crow bunshin).  He's never landed it otherwise.

Even bloodlusted he's more likely to go for swordsmanship or Chidori first to try and feel Naruto out rather than immediately jump into the lifeforce-draining technique that is Susanoo.  Then he eats a ghost punch, or just plain gets manhandled once Naruto grabs him.


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## ? (Oct 20, 2009)

wow sasuke is very gimped. even with susanoo he'd lose, but without it, sasuke gets mutilated beyond recognition.


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## ?_Camorra_? (Oct 21, 2009)

I suspect that nature energy makes you immune to genjutsu but anyway i dont see how Susano-o can guard against an itangible energy field.Its not chakra or a pure physical attack,it will bypass Susano-o's deffense and hit Sasuke,resulting Naruto's fast victory.Its almost guaranteed that Sasuke will gain EMS b4 he fights with SM Naruto and so unlocking the 4th MS technique.


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## Csdabest (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow.

People Saying Genjutsu wont work because Naruto would close his eyes. He would be fucked. Cuz Naruto is never seen or stated to be capable of fighting with his eyes closed. And Sasuke has shown he doesn't need eye contact to hit someone with genjutsu. Against shii. Shii had his face covered. And was not looking at Sasuke. Sasuke was to far away. Sasuke used a handseal Genjutsu and Cought Shii in it from a great distance. So 9/10 Sasuke sharingan genjutsu is strong enough to catch someone w/o even getting eye contact.

If Naruto has his eyes closed. he wont see Amaterasu. Or anyo of Sasuyke katons, or Sasuke projectile chakra blades, or Chidori Senbon. Even then, Naruto doesnt have the speed feats to react or dodge Amaterasu.

Yes. Fuuton>Raiton. But Naruto doesn't have the arsenal to make that a factor. All he can do with his FRS is toss it. And as we seen. It can easily be dodged. And Sasuke has amaterasu. He can simply use his katons and Enton to get strengthen by FRS. And turn it back on naruto. 

The closest thing FRS will clash with would be Sasuke Shuriken Infused windmilld shuriken. Or Chidori Senbon. But it comes in as a hail and one frs is going to stop 20 + senbon which Sasuke has shown to throw.

Sasuke is faster and more Agile than Naruto. Combined w/ Chidori Gatatana. His counters to Naruto Taijutsu would would prove deadly. Naruto has frog Katas yes. But his fist will not be able to get past Sasuke slicing off his arm w/ Chidori Gatana.

Naruto is never seen to have a protective shroud of Frog energy. Proven by the fact that Jiraiya arm was cut off. And proven by the fact that Hungry realm punch actually hit naruto. And Naruto has shown to recive damage from getting tossed around by Shinra tensei. And further proven by the fact that He was able to stab himself. So there is no such thing as a protectvie Sage energy shroud. It does nothing but to increase Naruto range.

Sasuke full 2nd Stage Susano'o would definetly block  FRS. The uncovered bone mostlikely wont. But the bone stage is shown as

Bones
Bones covered in Chakra
Bones covered in Amaterasu.

Though depending Which level. Sasuke would is able to possibly guard against it. But he would have to. He could just use the full size. but since its gone. Sasuke can easily dodge it. So FRS is out of the question.

If Ranton Lazers, Temari wind blade, Gaara's Sand bullets, Kankuro Sasori whatevers could scratch Susano'o. I doubt Naruto FRS would get through.

If Naruto gets close to Sasuke. Chidori Negashi would paralyse him. And Sasuke can cut him down. The max KB naruto is shown to use is 5. But 1 is collecting SM. So Naruto would have 4 with him in combat. But Sasuke can dismantale with Spamming Raiton infused Shuriken w/ raikou kenka to dispatch. Seeing how godly fast he can toss them with it. 

Rasengan<Full powered Chidori.
Chou Rasengan>=Full powered Chidori
F. Rasengan>Full Powered Chidori.

But as seen. There is nothing to stop Sasuke from ducking under it and Stabing naruto with Chidori in similiar fashion hedid to Raikae. Who is MUCH faster than Naruto. And has godly reaction.

Amaterasu will end it. if Naruto doesn't have his clones. but since Sasuke can control it. Even the latent flames. he can simply guide it to another Naruto after it disperses the clones. But it would buy Naruto some time. And create opening for Naruto

Tsukiyomi would end it. But since Sharingan is shown to hit multiple targets. And Kakashi even hints for all them to close their eyes since all it needs is eye contact. Its possible it can hit multiple targets. And Since Kage bushin shares mental stress once its disperse. If a Clone gets hit by Tsukiyomi and dispered. 9/10 according to what is stated. The pain of Tsukiyomi and mental stress will hit naruto.

Naruto Best Chances of getting Sasuke. Soley rely on Kage Bushin Feints.
But Sasuke can get Naruto with them to.

Toss a Windmill shuriken at Naruto. Naruto can dodge. Sasuke triggers the shuriken grenand. And Naruto has a Shuriken in his back. And we saw how nice that worked. it even worked against Itachi(Argubely lets not debate Itachi) But we know Naruto skill is no whgere near it. And we know its Kage Bushin Shruiken as well. Sasuke could always entangle Naruto in nin wire by tossing and manipulating the Shuriken.

Sasuke can also disperse the clones by Using Dragon flame, or pheonix flower, or grand fireball jutsu.

It simply depends on what strategy. But most end in Sasuke favor sense he has shown such a wide variety of techniques. And naruto doesnt have summoning to help him. So Sasuke basically wins with moderate difficulty.

And Frog Katas would never get past FRS. It his measured at increasing his range to about 6 inches from his fist. And Seeing how flesh can block it.(Deva without breaking his bones) Susano'io bones would block his Sage Punches and kicks. Raikage who is shown to have LEAGUES More of Striking power than NAruto broke the bons. Naruto punches or kicks havent even demostrated a portion of Raikage striking power.


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## Khazzar (Oct 27, 2009)

Csdabest said:


> Wow.
> 
> People Saying Genjutsu wont work because Naruto would close his eyes. He would be fucked. Cuz Naruto is never seen or stated to be capable of fighting with his eyes closed. And Sasuke has shown he doesn't need eye contact to hit someone with genjutsu. Against shii. Shii had his face covered. And was not looking at Sasuke. Sasuke was to far away. Sasuke used a handseal Genjutsu and Cought Shii in it from a great distance. So 9/10 Sasuke sharingan genjutsu is strong enough to catch someone w/o even getting eye contact.
> 
> ...



This is excelent post,i agree with most of it. However,i disagree on the Raikage's power > Sennin Naruto Power. Sennin Naruto may be the bigest powerhouse in the Manga right now. Whenever i state this i remember Rhino toss.


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## Shadow050 (Oct 27, 2009)

naruto insta-kills...

dark sasuke doesn't "waste time" analyzing the enemy. he simply attacks and reacts and whatever his power does for him automatically he uses.

dark sasuke will bumb rush in (kinda like normal), naruto will counter punch at him, sasuke will or will not predict that naruto is throwing a punch, but he will not predict the sage chakra... and it will hit him very hard.

since naruto is blood lusted he won't wait at all before zipping over to finish him with some type of resengan.

game over.


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## David (Oct 27, 2009)

_About SM Naruto vs Ameratsu:_



Oxtopus said:


> His jumpsuit had no problems with KN8 so I don't think Amateresu can burn through it.


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## Khazzar (Oct 27, 2009)

Shadow050 said:


> naruto insta-kills...
> 
> dark sasuke doesn't "waste time" analyzing the enemy. he simply attacks and reacts and whatever his power does for him automatically he uses.
> 
> ...



But do you consider Naruto's reaction speed in Sage Mode greater then Sasuke's shunshin?
I personally belive not many are capable to resist that first charge that Sasuke's uses,at least not in 1 vs 1 fights. Naruto might not be able to react to his blitz,but i tank he could tank it and proceed to fight. ( Unsure of this,that's why im asking ).


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## dreamWalker8 (Oct 28, 2009)

Peeps seem to forget that Naruto has Wind rasegan  -he used it when he did the rasegan clash vs kakashi- he doesn't need to use FRS to combat sasukes raitons. 

and FRS is a very unique attack it does damage on a cellular level. and could quite possibly destroy sasukes susanoo. if susanoo was invincible then itachi wouldn't of bothered getting a shield for his so that means it can be damaged.

And SM Naruto has greater speed and strength Feats then sasuke and with SM I'm quite sure he can break out of any genjutsu.


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## Rampage (Oct 28, 2009)

Naruto takes this, since Sasuke has no knowledge og frog katas this would be his downfall, and he has no susanoo either


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## Jermaine (Oct 28, 2009)

dreamWalker8 said:


> Peeps seem to forget that Naruto has Wind rasegan  -he used it when he did the rasegan clash vs kakashi- he doesn't need to use FRS to combat sasukes raitons.
> 
> and FRS is a very unique attack it does damage on a cellular level. and could quite possibly destroy sasukes susanoo. if susanoo was invincible then itachi wouldn't of bothered getting a shield for his so that means it can be damaged.
> 
> And SM Naruto has greater speed and strength Feats then sasuke and with SM I'm quite sure he can break out of any genjutsu.



 A full Susanoo>>>> Rasengan.


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## Bill G (Oct 28, 2009)

Why the hell did you restrict Susano'o? 

Naruto oneshots with the ghostpunch Sasuke tried to dodge.


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## Mist Puppet (Oct 28, 2009)

I'm amused by the fact that Naruto only wins because Sasuke doesn't have Susanoo. Which gives me the vibe that Sasuke can't win a battle without it


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## Csdabest (Oct 28, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> This is excelent post,i agree with most of it. However,i disagree on the Raikage's power > Sennin Naruto Power. Sennin Naruto may be the bigest powerhouse in the Manga right now. Whenever i state this i remember Rhino toss.



I merely said Striking power. Raikage punches and blows seems to be leagues stronger than narutos punches. Naruto punches manage to break Fat realm neck. But it seems Raiakge full blows are capable of ripping off lips according to suigetsu. And the fact it manage to dent in Curse Seal 2 Juugo sheild and chest. When Suigetsu (who we know to have super strength couldnt cut through. Raiakge simply hasnt had the opp to go in a tossing contest.,


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## Khazzar (Oct 28, 2009)

Csdabest said:


> I merely said Striking power. Raikage punches and blows seems to be leagues stronger than narutos punches. Naruto punches manage to break Fat realm neck. But it seems Raiakge full blows are capable of ripping off lips according to suigetsu. And the fact it manage to dent in Curse Seal 2 Juugo sheild and chest. When Suigetsu (who we know to have super strength couldnt cut through. Raiakge simply hasnt had the opp to go in a tossing contest.,



But don't forget that punch missed Fat Realm. It would have obliterated him on the spot - had he managed to hit him. Naruto's chakra blew him away. mmhm,we've yet to see i guess.


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## Jermaine (Oct 28, 2009)

Mistukuni said:


> I'm amused by the fact that Naruto only wins because Sasuke doesn't have Susanoo. Which gives me the vibe that Sasuke can't win a battle without it




Nah, he just becomes Defensively godlike with it.


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## Lord Stark (Oct 28, 2009)

FRS would take this for Naruto.  To be honest Sasuke has no way to counter this without Yata no Kagami.


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## Phoenix Zoro (Oct 29, 2009)

close battle but naruto takes this IMO especially without susanoo


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## Panos (Oct 29, 2009)

Amaterasu will just fry up Naruto.


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## Khazzar (Oct 30, 2009)

Do people really belive Sasuke can't handle Sennin Naruto without Susano'o? I seriously want to know this..


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## Sorin (Oct 30, 2009)

-sasuke rushes towards naruto;
-;
-
-sasuke doesn't have  or  to save his ass;

-conclusion:he dies very fast with a FRS in his face


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## MisterQ (Oct 30, 2009)

Sasuke currently has NOTHING to stand up to Naruto with in a fight, even with Susanoo, Naruto can Spam SM FRS at the static Susanoo until sasuke's running on empty.  His only chance is to genjitsu the real Naruto, and if he screws up and gets a bunshin he gets the same treatment the Itachi clone did at the start of part 2.

Don't you Uchitards worry though, He's just witnessed the Raikages Lightening enhanced Strength and reflexes, so his speed and strength are about to go up again, to a level beyond that of SM (though still well below the instant transmission of Hiraishin), though at the expense of his own chakra, same goes for base durability with Raiton Armour.

Frankly it would be better if we did a predicted final state Naruto Vs Sasuke


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## Khazzar (Nov 17, 2009)

Sorin said:


> -sasuke rushes towards naruto;
> -;
> -
> -sasuke doesn't have  or  to save his ass;
> ...


I doubt FRS is fast enough to ever hit Sasuke. It's in sheer Taijutsu where Naruto's victory lies. If he manages to Taijutsu gank Sasuke,that is.


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## Black Sabbath II (Nov 17, 2009)

Naruto owns even if Sasuke had Susano'o.


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## Sorin (Nov 17, 2009)

Khazzar said:


> I doubt FRS is fast enough to ever hit Sasuke. It's in sheer Taijutsu where Naruto's victory lies. If he manages to Taijutsu gank Sasuke,that is.



you see...FRS shouldn't have been able to hit deva either,but in the link that i provided deva would have been hit because he was knocked out by naruto's kick....and that's why i said that sasuke gets a FRS in the face...because he is bound to get hit by a frog kata.


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## Khazzar (Nov 17, 2009)

Sorin said:


> you see...FRS shouldn't have been able to hit deva either,but in the link that i provided deva would have been hit because he was knocked out by naruto's kick....and that's why i said that sasuke gets a FRS in the face...because he is bound to get hit by a frog kata.



Yes i agree it would be difficult to avoid Frog Kata's,but he has knowledge on it and consider his state of mind ( killing intent ),he would try and keep his distance or perhaps penetrate Naruto close up with some of his Chidori variants.


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## Dogescartes (Nov 20, 2009)

In my opinion it depends, on who hits first, both have a lot of power ups, but in the case of Sasuke with his Susano, i don´t see him tanking FRS, Naruto is the RAW power, and Sasuke the HAX, if Lawl genjutsu works, Naruto will be doomed. (Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi will help, but Sasuke dont have a lot of feats in this department) If Sasuke gets comboed by Naruto, Sasuke goes down. Its so difficult, Kishimoto will have the answer near the end of the manga. If Sasuke gets Totsuka and Yata no Kagami, he will be more HAX, but I still want Naruto to win.

Because hard work>genius. In conclusion for now is tie, victory will depend in the enviroment, emotional status (even bloodlusted), in the transciton form hebi to taka sasuke, he changed durability and orochimaru awesomeness, for MS hax.


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