# Konohamaru v/s Itachi



## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Location:Naruto Bridge
Distance: Close
Restrictions: None

I am going to have to give this fight to konohamaru,
He has mastered the ninjustsu of his uncle and grandfather 3rd.  He also has mastered kage bunshin and Rasengan from naruto.   This kid is deadly, and already Kage level.

In this fight Konohamaru wins low difficulty, because he shatters the bridge with rasengan.  Itachi falls into the water and drowns, as he has not shown proficiency at water walking as of yet.


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## Jagger (Aug 10, 2013)

Seriously dude. Shut the fuck up. You're unfunny, pathetic, useless, a waste of resources and it seems the only thing you're good at is rustling people's jimmies and you only rustled mine due my limited patient towards people.


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## PinkiePool (Aug 10, 2013)




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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Seriously dude. Shut the fuck up. You're unfunny, pathetic, useless, a waste of resources and it seems the only thing you're good at is rustling people's jimmies and you only rustled mine due my limited patient towards people.



Why r u trolling bra, u mad?


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## PinkiePool (Aug 10, 2013)

Oh, oh! Do 40-yearu-old Genin next!


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

Itachi's crow would beat Konohamaru. Not kidding.


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Aug 10, 2013)

Adult Seventh Hokage Konohamaru Sarutobi, the new God of Shinobi, who is equal to pre-retcon Prime Hiruzen, solos Itachi mid-difficulty.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Itachi falls into the water and drowns, as he has not shown proficiency at water walking as of yet.



hitting Sasuke with Amaterasu

read the manga kid.


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## Krippy (Aug 10, 2013)

and now you're full red


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## Jagger (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Why r u trolling bra, u mad?


Yes, I am. Would you kindly drink this bottle to celebrate this moment?


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> hitting Sasuke with Amaterasu
> 
> read the manga kid.



There isn't feats of him being proficient at it though.  The rocks will fall and break the surface tension of the water, and he won't be able to stand in such turbulent water.  I mean unless you can show feats otherwise, but you can't.   Then he drowns.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

The Dreaded Alias said:


> Adult Seventh Hokage Konohamaru Sarutobi, the new God of Shinobi, who is equal to pre-retcon Prime Hiruzen, solos Itachi mid-difficulty.



You kidding me, he easily surpasses the 3rd.
He nearly killed him off with an ambush when he was like 3.


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> There isn't feats of him being proficient at it though.  The rocks will fall and break the surface tension of the water, and he won't be able to stand in such turbulent water.  I mean unless you can show feats otherwise, but you can't.   Then he drowns.



hitting Sasuke with Amaterasu

Exploding clone, in water, Itachi still standing there.

Next.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Dil said:


> hitting Sasuke with Amaterasu
> 
> Exploding clone, in water, Itachi still standing there.
> 
> Next.



That was a tiny ripple.  Nothing like huge rocks falling into the water.
Its like being near a ship when it is sinking, it is going to suck you in as well.  Itachi has no swim feats, so he drowns.


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## Ersa (Aug 10, 2013)

One of Itachi's leg hairs is sufficient to crush Konohamaru.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> That was a tiny ripple.  Nothing like huge rocks falling into the water.



where are the huge rocks falling from ?


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> where are the huge rocks falling from ?



The bridge as it collapses underneath him.
*Its like being near a ship when it is sinking, it is going to suck you in as well. Itachi has no swim feats, so he drowns.*


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> The bridge as it collapses underneath him.
> *Its like being near a ship when it is sinking, it is going to suck you in as well. Itachi has no swim feats, so he drowns.*



Bridge isn't that big.

So there won't be "huge rocks" falling.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Then he uses the rasengan to cause a whilpool that sucks him down.  
GG


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

Wouldn't Konohamaru fall and drown too if the bridge is collapsing?


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Then he uses the rasengan to cause a whilpool that sucks him down.
> GG



Why isn't Konohomaru drowning in the meanwhile ?


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why isn't Konohomaru drowning in the meanwhile ?



Because he used a clone to use the rasengan.
He is smart like naruto!


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Because he used a clone to use the rasengan.
> He is smart like naruto!



Why didn't Itachi use a clone ?


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Why didn't Itachi use a clone ?



kono used his much larger repertoire of ninjutsu to trick him into not using a clone.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> cuz he is dumb.



reported for character bashing 

edit :

not fast enough 



jesusjuice69 said:


> kono used his much larger repertoire of ninjutsu to trick him into not using a clone.



How ?


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> reported for character bashing



reported for being a loser with no life.
Seriously dude 31.5k posts, and your not even a mod here.


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## Scarlet Ammo (Aug 10, 2013)

This thread


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## NW (Aug 10, 2013)

Lol, what is this?


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

Damn, he got mad too early  It's over.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> reported for being a loser with no life.
> Seriously dude 31.5k posts, and your not even a mod here.



I'll explain why post count has nothing to do with being mod to your next dupe.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Fusion said:


> Lol, what is this?



Itachi has no swim feats so he dies.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I'll explain why post count has nothing to do with being mod to your next dupe.



31.5k posts in a naruto forum
You know someone is still a virgin.


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Itachi has no swim feats so he dies.



Nor does Konohamaru when he falls in the water.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> 31.5k posts in a naruto forum
> You know someone is still a virgin.



with 54 posts, you must be getting laid every hour.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Dil said:


> Nor does Konohamaru when he falls in the water.



Well you can call it a draw if you want I guess.


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## Dil (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Well you can call it a draw if you want I guess.



But it wouldn't be since the Itachi which is drowning is a Genjutsu, while the real Itachi is sipping tea looking at Konohamaru drowning.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 10, 2013)

Dil said:


> But it wouldn't be since the Itachi which is drowning is a Genjutsu, while the real Itachi is sipping tea looking at Konohamaru drowning.



In that case, it was a clone drowning and itachi takes rasengan to back of head, and he stabs him in the eyes with 2 kunai for good measure.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 10, 2013)

I dunno, guys. Based on the evidence, things aren't looking good for Itachi here.


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## Sans (Aug 10, 2013)

If you recall, Konohameru can defeat any opponent if there's an alleyway to bunshin feint out of. 

All Konohameru needs to do is use a _second_ clone to henge into said alleyway, and he's set.

@OP: You're really cool.


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## Jagger (Aug 10, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Itachi has no swim feats so he dies.


Konohamaru has no feats beating a Sharingan user, so he loses.


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## Turrin (Aug 10, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Seriously dude. Shut the fuck up. You're unfunny, pathetic, useless, a waste of resources and it seems the only thing you're good at is rustling people's jimmies and you only rustled mine due my limited patient towards people.


Why are you not joking like everyone? The thread's only purpose is to get some laughs and make sensitive with zero sense of humor get angry over silly and non-important like this one.


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## PinkiePool (Aug 11, 2013)

7-year old Itachi vs. Konohamaru!

GO, GO,  GO!!!


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

PinkiePool said:


> 7-year old Itachi vs. Konohamaru!
> 
> GO, GO,  GO!!!



No sharingan.
Konohamaru stomps.  That isn't even close...


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm not positive, but I don't think we know when Itachi actually activated his Sharingan. We know he mastered it at age 8, but we don't know when it was initially activated. 

Unless stated otherwise, I think there's a good chance he got it age 4 because of Obito's story, where he told Sasuke that Itachi had witnessed unspeakable things in the war.

We know that Uchiha eyes are activated by strong emotions, and if it traumatized Itachi enough to make him a pussy vegan, then it most likely also activated the 1-tomoe Sharingan or whatever.​


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I'm not positive, but I don't think we know when Itachi actually got his Sharingan. We know he mastered it at age 8, but we don't know when it was initially activated.​



Konohamaru didn't get blitzed by a Pain body, and that Pain body dodged Rasenshuriken (Enton speed). 

 Konohamaru blitzes.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Psh, 7-year-old Itachi would rape Naraka Path. I'm serious. ​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Yah serious alright, seriously stupid.  
Baseless itachi fanboyism.

Mastered the sharingan at 8 means he activated it at 8.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

You're hurtful.


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Psh, 7-year-old Itachi would rape Naraka Path. I'm serious. ​



Feats? 

Narkara has the (pretty decent) speed feat of avoiding FRS. Little Itachi has none. 

The Pain bodies kind of kept up with Sage Naruto & his attacks, and Little Itachi wouldn't. Hell, _current_ Itachi would require the Mangekyou to beat Naruto.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Feats?



This is everything I remember about kid Itachi:



_*Mastery* of the Sharingan, which beat Orochimaru._



> Page 4:
> 兄弟そろってお世話になります。
> I ask you to guide this boy just like you did his brother
> 
> ...



_The greatest genius of the academy, who didn't need to be taught._



_With wisdom of the Hokage._

Heck, the databook even says the Hokage were jealous of his genius.



> *Everybody* was envious of his outstanding genius, yet that talent actually proved to be a very cruel burden....



Chibi Itachi was Hokage level. Way above Naraka.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> This is everything I remember about kid Itachi:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Again, mastery only means he learned it.
These are words from a little kid!  


Greatest ninja of the academy is one opinion.
So is the next line, which is dumb.
Neither of them really even mean anything though, so whatever.

Beat Orochimaru, yah much later.
I am going to laugh really hard if you say he beat Oro at 11.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Him beating Orochimaru at 11 is an indisputable fact that was stated twice in the manga, once by Orochimaru, and again by Kisame.​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Him beating Orochimaru at 11 is an indisputable fact that was stated twice in the manga, once by Orochimaru, and again by Kisame.​



Nope that is BS.
Sorry, but that is an obvious error in the story, lol.

Itachi dies at 24.  He is ~7 years older than Sasuke.


After Itachi massacred the clan, Sasuke's ideals and personality changed drastically due to him suffering his clan's curse and became cold, indifferent, cruel, cynical, somewhat arrogant, unreasonable and devoted the next nine years of his life to kill Itachi
Naruto chapter 225, page 21

That means Sasuke is 7-8 years old when the clan died, and itachi would have been 16-17.


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Basically, he outranks Naraka Pain by a lot.





You gave me intelligence feats.

Cool beans, but he may have not had the physical capabilities necessary to fight a Akatsuki boss Pain body.

Mastering the Sharingan at 8 tells us nothing about his skill-set at 7, except that he might have had some form of the Sharingan.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Nope that is BS.
> Sorry, but that is an obvious error in the story, lol.



I say the same thing about Itachi not using his Sage Mode.​


Rocky said:


> You gave me intelligence feats.



More like intelligence & talent feats that imply ability.​


Rocky said:


> Mastering the Sharingan at 8 tells us nothing about his skill-set at 7



It does, given that mastering the Sharingan is more difficult than being moderately skilled in taijutsu. Kakashi and Sasuke's masteries over the eye followed their overall heightened abilities. 

The Sharingan also more or less guarantees that Itachi would have a solid ninjutsu and taijutsu base due to copy abilities, genjutsu capacity, plus being as intelligent and talented as he was. 

He was supernaturally precocious. He easily humiliated the genius among Sannin when he had just turned 11, so him stomping Konohamaru just before turning 8 isn't much of a leap at all.​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I say the same thing about Itachi not using his Sage Mode.​



Sorry, it is in the story that he was 11 and 16.  You can't have it both ways, and one way makes no sense.  Guess which one that is?  Hint:  11


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Sorry, it is in the story that he was 11 and 16.  You can't have it both ways, and one way makes no sense.  Guess which one that is?  Hint:  11



It was never said that he was 16. It was said twice that he was 11 by both Orochimaru and Akatsuki, the most reliable sources for when Orochimaru left Akatsuki (because of Itachi.)​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> It was never said that he was 16. It was said twice that he was 11.



Nope, sorry, but you are wrong.
Itachi fans are absolutely insane!


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> More like intelligence & talent feats that imply ability.​



Ambiguous wording eh? 

Wisdom =/= speed & strength to fight Akatsuki boss path. 

Greatest academy genius evaaarrrr =/= speed & strength to fight Akatsuki boss path. 



> It does, given that mastering the Sharingan is more difficult than being moderately skilled in taijutsu. Kakashi and Sasuke's masteries over the eye followed their overall heightened abilities.



Itachi didn't master the Sharingan at 7. You realize how much can happen in a year, right? Especially with Itachi's learning ability.



> The Sharingan also more or less guarantees that Itachi would have a solid ninjutsu and taijutsu base due to copy abilities, genjutsu capacity, plus being as intelligent and talented as he was.



Itachi had an unknown level of Sharingan at 7. He could've been no more proficient in it than Wave Sasuke was. If you used 8-year old Itachi, I would totally agree with you.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Itachi had an unknown level of Sharingan at 7. He could've been no more proficient in it than Wave Sasuke was. If you used 8-year old Itachi, I would totally agree with you.



Well then we're not so far apart here. I don't think Itachi's the type to "explode" in ability the way Naruto would, but had a fast, steady learning process. If he mastered the Sharingan at age eight, then he was likely only a bit below that point at age seven.

There's no assured way of arguing that his speed at that point either, but given that he was only a year away from mastering his kekkei genkai, then I don't find the speculation that he was at a _decent_ level in other ninja arts unreasonable at all.​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> It was never said that he was 16. It was said twice that he was 11 by both Orochimaru and Akatsuki, the most reliable sources for when Orochimaru left Akatsuki (because of Itachi.)​



Wrong, not only does it say it, but it is the only way the story makes any sense!


After Itachi massacred the clan, Sasuke's ideals and personality changed drastically due to him suffering his clan's curse and became cold, indifferent, cruel, cynical, somewhat arrogant, unreasonable and devoted the next nine years of his life to kill Itachi
Naruto chapter 225, page 21

At age 7, Itachi graduated from the Academy at the top of his class after only one year
Naruto chapter 145, page 9

enrolled in ANBU half a year later[12] and became captain by 13
Naruto chapter 142, page 12


That means Sasuke is 7-8 years old when the clan died, and itachi would have been 16-17.

If Itachi was 11 years old, then sasuke was 2 when they died.  That is a baby!  Those don't run around and talk, well not proficiently anyways.
We know Sasuke was in the academy, so we know he was 7-8 years old.  We know this from other sources as well.
Also, it would mean he joined Akatsuki at least 2 years before he left the village. Which makes no sense.

And there are many more things that don't add up as well.
The whole story doesn't make sense with itachi fighting orochimaru at 11!

I think the most obvious example is simply the art and voice acting.
The author obviously drew Itachi as a 16 year old.  You can fuck up a complicated story easily, but you can't repeatedly misrepresent the age of a character over and over.  You are obviously going to notice that he didn't look 11!  Thus it is clear the author's intent was to make Itachi look 16, because he was 16.




Strategoob said:


> It does, given that mastering the Sharingan is more difficult than being moderately skilled in taijutsu. Kakashi and Sasuke's masteries over the eye followed their overall heightened abilities.
> 
> The Sharingan also more or less guarantees that Itachi would have a solid ninjutsu and taijutsu base due to copy abilities, genjutsu capacity, plus being as intelligent and talented as he was.
> 
> He was supernaturally precocious. He easily humiliated the genius among Sannin when he had just turned 11, so him stomping Konohamaru just before turning 8 isn't much of a leap at all.​



He learned it at 8, not mastered it.
Sasuke said he mastered it, but he was just a little kid.  That means nothing.

Now if his father had said it, then you might have something.
As things stand though, you are just wrong.  
You got to read between the lines to understand the context!


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## Vice (Aug 11, 2013)

I like this thread. It makes me smile.


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Well then we're not so far apart here. I don't think Itachi's the type to "explode" in ability the way Naruto would, but had a fast, steady learning process. If he mastered the Sharingan at age eight, then he was likely only a bit below that point at age seven.



Problem is, we don't know when it was unlocked. You say 4, which is plausible, but for all we know it could have been laying dormant for a few years. If he re-unlocked it at say, age 7, then he would have had the entire year to master it, and obviously Itachi with his Hokage-wisdom self is perfectly capable of that...

....but 7 year-old Itachi would still be a newb with the Dojutsu.

So we don't really know, and it's information we probably won't get.



> There's no assured way of arguing that his speed at that point either, but given that he was only a year away from mastering his kekkei genkai, then I don't find the speculation that he was at a _decent_ level in other ninja arts unreasonable at all.



Dodging FRS is in all honesty more than decent though. 

It travels at the same speed as Sasuke's Amaterasu variant, Sandaime surprised Naruto when he dodged it, and it cleared the entire affected area Chibaku Tensei in one second.

Itachi was a very young kid. Beautiful mind, but still a very young, developing child. His physical attributes aren't going to be as high as his teenage years. Even year to year, the growth alone would make a difference. Look how much Sasuke changed from 13 to 16. Or Obito. _Especially_ Obito. Stomped by kid Gai to stepping with Minato? That's insane.

Assuming a 7 year-old Gennin with no actual showings holds the necessary speed & strength to fight against a member of the Pein Rikudou really shits on the perception of Pain's power, imo.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Assuming a 7 year-old Gennin with no actual showings holds the necessary speed & strength to fight against a member of the Pein Rikudou really shits on the perception of Pain's power, imo.



Konohamaru didn't? Naraka is an exceptionally weak Path, paritcularly when isolated. Besides, Itachi at least has the whole super-genius thing going for him unlike Konohamaru.​


jesusjuice69 said:


> That means Sasuke is 7-8 years old when the clan died, and itachi would have been 16-17.



Itachi is 5 years older than Sasuke.​


jesusjuice69 said:


> If Itachi was 11 years old, then sasuke was 2 when they died.
> 
> Also, it would mean he joined Akatsuki at least 2 years before he left the village. Which makes no sense.



Itachi was 13 when he killed his family. However, we know he found Obito well before that time period, so him running in with Akatsuki before leaving the village is perfectly plausible.​


jesusjuice69 said:


> And there are many more things that don't add up as well.
> The whole story doesn't make sense with itachi fighting orochimaru at 11!



The only puzzler is what Itachi was doing in Akatsuki before leaving Konoha. But we know he was striking deals with Obito _before_ the massacre, so him having ties with the organization is sensical.

Similarly, Edo Hiruzen said that it was up to "Itachi alone" to watch Akatsuki after the massacre, indicating that Itachi may have been instrumental in watching them for Konoha before.​


jesusjuice69 said:


> The author obviously drew Itachi as a 16 year old.



Kishimoto can't draw kids. Kakashi was 6 when he graduated the academy, but he looks 13-14. Itachi was 12-13 when he killed his family, but he looks older. Basically, don't trust the art too much.​


jesusjuice69 said:


> You can fuck up a complicated story easily, but you can't repeatedly misrepresent the age of a character over and over.



We have a clear timeline from two different sources: Orochimaru himself, and Akatsuki. There's no misinterpretation going on. Here, look. The author wouldn't have done this unintentionally:




​


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## Vice (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Konohamaru didn't?



Konohamaru did. No reason to make it worse, however.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Konohamaru didn't?



He got lucky.
Pein outclassed him in every way.


Kono is chunnin level.
He stomps a little 7 year old genin.  He far outclasses itachi at 7.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Konohamaru didn't?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oro said: '' So this is the Uchiha that slaughtered his own clan '' when Itachi joined!

I can't believe you are still arguing after I proved beyond any doubt that you are wrong.
You didn't even counter one of the arguments.   






Sasuke killed Orochimaru at about 16-17.
They said he left the organization about 10 years ago.
That means sasuke is about 7 when Oro left.

Where does this prove Itachi is 11?


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Konohamaru didn't?



In all honesty, I support 7 year-old Itachi over Konahamaru.

Konohamaru beat the Path with a distraction from Ebisu, allowing him to get off a free clone feint.

In a true death match against each other, Naraka just corners Konohamaru like he did in the Manga, but Konohamaru won't have the hiding spot and distraction to make the free clone prior to any actual combat, and thus is killed there.

Naraka was running around stomping Jounin like the rest of 'em. That's above 12 or 7 year-old Gennin imo.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

In the end, Konohamaru outsmarted & outplayed the Naraka Pain. If it were restricted to taijutsu, then yeah, Naraka would have won if only because of his superior durability.

I think Itachi at age 7 would have a 3-tomoe Sharingan and be able to move about as well as Sasuke could against KN1 Naruto in part one though, so he might be alright just with ninja weapons.

This is actually a great example of relevance anyway. Naraka was a piece of Pain, but definitely a fodder piece - a cheap device. If push came to shove, Kishimoto would have chibi Itachi beat him.

Or do you think it's more likely that Naraka Pain beats kid Itachi to a pulp and leaves him lying beaten and broken? I could see that for Deva, Asura, or Human, but definitely not Naraka.​


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Okay? Any of the Sound 4 would defeat 7 year-old Itachi or Konahamaru as well.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> In the end, Konohamaru outsmarted & outplayed the Naraka Pain. If it were restricted to taijutsu, then yeah, Naraka would have won if only because of his superior durability.
> 
> That's more debatable. I genuinely think Itachi at age 7 would have a 3-tomoe Sharingan and be able to move about as well as Sasuke could against KN1 Naruto in part one.
> 
> I'd even expect Itachi to be a bit better with weapons, and have at least some genjutsu capacity.​



A fodder jounin is not stronger than Naraka Path.
Ebisu is higher than fodder jounin and got his ass stomped.

Lol yah he has all that... and this is based on what?  Absolutely nothing...


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

jesusjuice69 said:


> Ebisu is higher than fodder jounin...



Why do you think that?  (both)


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Konahamaru isn't above the Pain body. He clone feinted it with distraction from his Sensei. It would just run him down normally, before he made a clone.



> In the end, Konohamaru outsmarted & outplayed the Naraka Pain. If it were restricted to taijutsu, then yeah, Naraka would have won if only because of his superior durability.



When, while gaining the courage to send in a clone from cover while Ebisu got stomped?

That's not outsmarting. Konahamaru did not "outsmart" Nagato. He sent in a clone because that's what Naruto would do, and Konahamaru's a mini Naruto. Nagato killed the clone because he didn't see Konahamaru make it (or have any knowledge whatsoever that he could), and got blindsided from behind. 

If both started in plain view of each other, Naraka Path would run Konahamaru down like he did in the Manga, only it wouldn't be a clone as Ebisu wouldn't have distracted Pain so Konohamaru could make one.



> That's more debatable. I genuinely think Itachi at age 7 would have a 3-tomoe Sharingan and be able to move about as well as Sasuke could against KN1 Naruto in part one.



You're guessing Itachi has a 3-Tome.

He would move worse than Sasuke. Sasuke was 3-Tome Uchiha teenager with feats and Itachi was a little kid with a random stage of Sharingan. Unless you want to provide some evidence, like any at all, that Itachi "moved as well" as Vote Sasuke, then stop. Please. 



> I'd even expect Itachi to be a bit better with weapons, and have at least some genjutsu capacity.



Sasuke's feats were good with weapons, so again, provide some evidence instead of trying to randomly scale Itachi backwards.

He might have had minor Genjutsu ability, but nothing special.


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## Vice (Aug 11, 2013)

Again, all of Strat's arguments revolve around some imaginary fanfiction inside his head where 7-year-old Itachi actually has feats.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Vice said:


> Again, all of Strat's arguments revolve around some imaginary fanfiction inside his head where 7-year-old Itachi actually has feats.



#Izuna-hypocrisy.​


Rocky said:


> Konahamaru isn't above the Pain body.



Eh, I disagree, but let's not lose focus.​


Rocky said:


> You're guessing Itachi has a 3-Tome.



I'd be surprised if he mastered it in less than a year with his spare time between missions when it took Sasuke three years of focused training with Orochimaru, and took Kakashi nearly twenty years.​


Rocky said:


> He would move worse than Sasuke. Sasuke was teenager with feats and Itachi was a little kid. Unless you want to provide some evidence, like any at all, that Itachi "moved as well" as Vote Sasuke, than stop.



They were both genin with the 3-tomoe Sharingan. One of them was hyped to have a mind like a Hokage and to be outrageously talented even among the Uchiha. The other had a massive inferiority complex because of this that caused him to rant "I'm more special!" in fights. So with equal ranks and dōjutsu, I'll take a wild guess on who I'd expect to be overall more skilled and capable in a fight.​


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Or do you think it's more likely that Naraka Pain beats kid Itachi to a pulp and leaves him lying beaten and broken? I could see that for Deva, Asura, or Human, but definitely not Naraka.[/indent]



Yes, very likely.

Deva is a High Kage level City Buster with top-tier firepower. 

Asura & Animal are Kage level. The latter forced Jiraiya into Sage Mode _by himself_, and the former has super strength, super durability, and fucking block-leveling explosives. 

Human can step with Sage Jiraiya and technically kill you with a touch...so Kage level.

Preta can absorb all Ninjutsu and has physical feats of reacting to Sages and intercepting Rasenshuriken. Easily Kage traits.

It would make absolutely no sense for Naraka to be inferior to Konahamaru. He scored a situational hit on the Path with aid from another Shinobi. Sage Jiraiya got blindsided and had his arm torn off by Asura. So....Asura > Sage Jiraiya? No, it doesn't flow like that.



Strategoob said:


> I'd be surprised if he mastered it in less than a year with his spare time between missions when it took Sasuke three years of focused training with Orochimaru, and took Kakashi nearly twenty years.​



We don't know the specific point in time that Sasuke mastered his Sharingan. However, they're different people, so I don't care about how long it took Sasuke. 



> They were both genin with the 3-tomoe Sharingan. One of them was hyped to have a mind like a Hokage and to be special among the Uchiha. The other had a massive inferiority complex because of this that caused him to rant "I'm more special!" in fights. So with equal ranks and dōjutsu, I'll take a wild guess on who I'd expect to be overall more skilled and capable in a fight.​



7 year-old Itachi had the 3-Tome? Evidence. Please, I beg you, give some sort of solid confirmation.

Hokage Mind =/= Physical speed. 

Old Hiruzen = super wisdom knowledge man. Raikage = not that or anything close.

Equal ranks, equal speed right?


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

I was thinking those Paths I stated _without_ their ninjutsu could do it. They just seem more skilled. I mean, would you expect Naraka to go toe to toe with Kakashi in taijutsu and come out on top? Doubt it. 

Hence the Paths have different base ability. Deva and Human are the most polished, followed closely by Asura, then Animal and Preta are a bit behind, and Naraka trails by a larger distance.​


Rocky said:


> Hokage Mind =/= Physical speed
> 
> Old Hiruzen = super wisdom knowledge man. Raikage = not that or anything close.
> 
> Equal ranks, equal speed right?





How fast do you think Naraka is? Hiruzen with a 3.5 in speed would be able to handle him easily. Even if Itachi is slower than Wave Arc Sasuke with a 3 in speed, that 3-tomoe is enough.

Anyway, I don't have hard evidence of Itachi having the 3-tomoe at that age, but my extrapolation was fair. Besides, if you think Itachi could get a '5/5' in dōjutsu within a year then...

Don't you think arguing that he probably couldn't have become mediocre 3.5/5 in taijutsu, reflexes, etc. to keep up with Naraka Pain's speed is rather contradictory? 

Also, keep in mind this is a kid that made Sasuke feel shitty for not being able to use Chūnin level ninjutsu at age 7. Itachi was probably doing that shit in Mikoto's womb. Chūnin taijutsu isn't a stretch.
​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

I think we are being trolled. 

It is the only thing that makes sense...


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> I was thinking those Paths I stated _without_ their ninjutsu could do it. They just seem more skilled. I mean, would you expect Naraka to go toe to toe with Kakashi in taijutsu and come out on top? Doubt it.



I wouldn't expect any to beat Kakashi in Taijutsu. But with little Itachi? Yeah, easily.



> Hence the Paths have different base ability. Deva and Human are the most polished, followed closely by Asura, then Animal and Preta are a bit behind, and Naraka trails by a larger distance.



We saw all of their speeds/reflexes tested fairly against Rasenshuriken. Deva-Preta-Naraka-Human > Animal.

Taijutsu skill of all would be the _exact same_. Nagato animates and directly controls all of them, so while strength, speed & reflexes may be dependent upon the body, anything skill relates is going to be equal to Nagato's own, and the same between all paths.


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Unless Kakashi used Kamui, then I am giving that match to Naraka to be honest.
We already saw kakashi getting his ass kicked earlier by on of the pains.   He might have won with help had the other pain not showed up, but that is with help.

All the pains are controlled by Nagato, thus they are about the same in taijutsu.  The only real difference is which ninjutsu they get.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

The Rasenshuriken is a bullshit reflex test anyway given the excessive prep and waving around Naruto did with the jutsu back then. Naraka was fodderized by a clone feint the moment Naruto directed his attention toward him, which is a better exmaple of reflexes because it's something that actually had to be reflexively reacted against. In contrast, Yahiko's body was lawling at all the clone trickery with black rods.​


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> How fast do you think Naraka is? Hiruzen with a 3.5 in speed would be able to handle him easily. Even if Itachi is slower than Wave Arc Sasuke with a 3 in speed, that 3-tomoe is enough.



Based on what? Hiruzen wouldn't dodge Naruto's Rasenshuriken with his old, feeble body.



> Besides, if you think Itachi could master the Sharingan within a year then...



Obito was already onto the Mangekyou after a year.

Naruto mastered Senjutsu in like a few weeks, something Jiraiya the legendary Hokage-level Sannin could never do ever. 

Different people can handle different things.



> Don't you think arguing that he probably couldn't have become barely above mediocre proficiency (3.5) in taijutsu, reflexes, etc. to keep up with Naraka is pretty contradictory?



Naraka's speed is good enough to dodge Rasenshuriken/Enton, so probably 4.5 or around that.

His Taijutsu would be equal to Nagato's own, since Nagato is the one actually doing the fighting, and Nagato against isn't going to be below a 4.5.



> The Rasenshuriken is a bullshit reflex test anyway given the excessive prep and waving around Naruto did with the jutsu back then



Excuses excuses. None of them preemptively jumped, and no one expected Naruto to throw it. Not even Fukasaku or Shima, who had been training with him. What we saw was Deva & Naraka barely escaping, while Human threw Animal out of the way.


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## trance (Aug 11, 2013)




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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

To be fair Jiraiya did Sage jutsu in his spare time.


Also, looking through Wiki I found that Kakashi graduated the academy at 5!  
So much for the great itachi's kage wisdom.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 11, 2013)

Nope. No way is a ninja with 4.5 reflexes and 4.5 taijutsu getting punked by Konohamaru. Wave Arc Kakashi was inferior in both areas (he had two 4.0,) and that shit would never work on him. Imo.

Kabuto had a 3.5 in both areas and I'd hardly believe that such a thing would work against him either. 

I'm thinking that Naraka Pain was rockin' a 3.0 reflexes. So unless chibi Itachi was over a tier below part one Naruto in reflexes, then the 3-tomoe would suffice for anti-blitz.​


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## jesusjuice69 (Aug 11, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Based on what? Hiruzen wouldn't dodge Naruto's Rasenshuriken with his old, feeble body.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The databook is trash.  A 5.0 scale is going to vary greatly depending on when you take the measurements as power escalates over time.



Strategoob said:


> Nope. No way is a ninja with 4.5 reflexes and 4.5 taijutsu getting punked by Konohamaru. Wave Arc Kakashi was inferior in both areas (he had two 4.0,) and that shit would never work on him. Imo. Naraka was rockin' a 3.0 or 3.5 in reflexes.​



If they were that weak any team of 6 jonin could have beat them.  LOL!
It doesn't matter how fast you are or how good your reflexes are if you are tricked.  By the time you figure out it is a trick, then you already took dmg, or even BEFORE YOUR FIGURE IT OUT!

Seriously are you trolling or is your understanding really this bad?


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## Van Konzen (Aug 11, 2013)

Itachi spitz on Konohamaru and the kid drowns.

He doesnt have feats surviving a saliva release..


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## Trojan (Aug 11, 2013)

Konohamaru can defeat Hiruzen (the Strongest Hokage) by his sexy jutsu at the age of 8 or 7!
the god of shinibo who's stronger than Hashirama and Tobirama at the same time lost to konohamaru
while being a kid, who does have this feat other than Naruto Himself? 

itachi's feat by defeating oro is nothing compare to konohamaru! 

he even defeated a Rinnegan user, and we all know that Rinnegan >> MS 

and that was before Naruto teach him odoma Rasengan!!

he also has clones, so Genjutsu is useless, or he can turn himself to naked Sasuke or whatever
and itachi dies.  

I say konohamaru wins more times than not!


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## Rocky (Aug 11, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Nope. No way is a ninja with 4.5 reflexes and 4.5 taijutsu getting punked by Konohamaru. Wave Arc Kakashi was inferior in both areas (he had two 4.0,) and that shit would never work on him. Imo. Naraka was rockin a 3.0 or 3.5 in reflexes.​



Nope.

Nagato does the fighting through the paths. Their individual skill is replaced by Nagato's. It isn't Edo Tensei, where he revives 6 people to fight for him. He directly fights through them with Chakra receptors using his techniques and skills. It's his Taijutsu, and thus his score.

When you're not focused on the one attacking you, it's easy to be blindsided. 

Asura got his shit rocked by Sage Naruto by blindside when he tried to run down Tsunade. 

Asura casually mutilated Sage Jiraiya by blindside. (The same Jiraiya that kicked Human's lights out. The same Human you put above Asura)

Base Wind-Arc Naruto pulled the most overt of overt feints on someone of Wave-Kakashi's speed tier.

And Random 4% Susano'o clone got ahold of "Your Sharingan can't see me" Raikage by blindside. 

Blindsiding a guy is a way to circumvent their physical advantage. How obvious does it have to be.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 11, 2013)

This has gone on for long enough.


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