# The Snakes vs Senator Armstrong



## AngryHeretic (May 18, 2014)

Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, Solidus, and Big Boss at their peak are sent in to what's left of a war-torn city to take down Senator Armstrong, also at his peak. The Snakes can have any weapons they've had access to throughout the series, and vehicles if necessary. Armstrong gets no weapons or vehicles, only his nanomachines, son.

The Snakes get prep. Armstrong knows they're coming but not when or how. Morals off.

If the Snakes can't win, The Boss and Gray Fox join in.
If Armstrong can't win, he gets EXCELSUS as well.


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## willyvereb (May 18, 2014)

Well, powerwise the Snakes are grossly outclassed here.
Armstrong is potentially even multitudes of their speed.
Their best chance obviously comes down to indirect methods.
Tranquilizer bullets would be quite likely useless as Armstrong has better regen than Vamp.

On the other hand MGS4 offers a few stuff that may help.
Emotive ammo and other stuffs that afflict people with extreme emotions
Nanomachine suppressant syringe which previously disabled Vamp's
And lastly the Psycho Mantis Doll which can take control of one's nanomachines
Those three are what I think of at the moment.
They could probably allow Team Snake to defeat the so-called top dog of their verse.
Hell, with prep and his resourcefulness possibly even Snake can do it alone.
Aside from a slight chance for speedblitz.


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## NightmareCinema (May 18, 2014)

^Willy, I re-checked the profile for Raiden.
Mach 2000+? Where did that come from?
Just curious.


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## Byrd (May 18, 2014)

> Nanomachine suppressant syringe which previously disabled Vamp's



This probably will fuck him up badly if its injected


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## willyvereb (May 18, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> ^Willy, I re-checked the profile for Raiden.


Great timing with that.
I just updated all the currently existing Metal Gear verse profiles yesterday.
I also plan on finally finishing those and move on to Muv-Luv or some other verse I'm still behind with schedule.



> Mach 2000+? Where did that come from?
> Just curious.


An old Zandatsu calc for Raiden.
He performs a roughly 2m jump under only a split-second (5 frames maybe?) while the target is in free fall in the air and technically doesn't even move or just slowly.
There's a more impressive sub-relativistic calc based on a similar Zandatsu comparison but with bullets moving in the air.
The problem with that one is just that bullets in Metal Gear are Mach 200+ based on Ocelot's feat but using that you'd be essentially doing calc-stacking and get crazy low FTL results.


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## NightmareCinema (May 18, 2014)

willyvereb said:


> Great timing with that.
> I just updated all the currently existing Metal Gear verse profiles yesterday.
> I also plan on finally finishing those and move on to Muv-Luv or some other verse I'm still behind with schedule.
> 
> ...



Ah. Alright, then. 
MHS+ Metal Gear high-tiers, huh...
Apart from Armstrong and Samuel, that would also scale to the Winds and Bladewolf, right?


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## AngryHeretic (May 20, 2014)

So they can't take him straight-on but some of the crazy tech they have is enough to take him down? Sounds good to me, that seems to be how most fights involving Big Boss and Solid Snake go anyway.

I doubt there would be much of a speedblitz. After all, Armstrong was stronger than Raiden but quite a bit slower, so he would definitely be faster than the Snakes but not fast enough that they couldn't fight back, since they all have MHS reactions/dodging IIRC


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (May 20, 2014)

Even without calcs, its grossly obvious that they don't have a prayer period.


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## willyvereb (May 20, 2014)

Actually they very much do with prep.
Without it, their best bet is to run the fuck away or maybe hope that Solid Snake's Railgun projectile can catch Armstrong offguard and hit him without the nanomachine-armor protecting the Senator.


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## NemeBro (May 27, 2014)

Byrd said:


> This probably will fuck him up badly if its injected



How the fuck do they intend to break his skin to do it?


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## Expelsword (May 27, 2014)

NemeBro said:


> How the fuck do they intend to break his skin to do it?



I don't think it would be hard to break Nanomachine enhanced skin with *Nanomachine inhibitors.*


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## NemeBro (May 27, 2014)

Oh is the syringe also made of nanomachine inhibitors? Because if I recall correctly, Snake had to actually inject vamp with the drug to inhibit his nanomachines. Unless the needle can ignore his durability for some reason, there's no proof this would work.


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## Expelsword (May 27, 2014)

You could easilly coat the needle in some.


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## NemeBro (May 28, 2014)

Expelsword said:


> You could easilly coat the needle in some.



It's a drug. You can't get high by rubbing your fist in cocaine, why do you think slapping the drug on Armstrong will affect him? Vamp had to be injected.


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## Expelsword (May 28, 2014)

I must admit, I'm not very familiar with Metal Gear, but how did Vamp's Nanomachines work?
Because the ones I see Armstrong using are blatantly hardening his skin.

Using some topically applied inhibitor would _probably_ allow him to be injected with more of it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 28, 2014)

Vamp's nanomachines enhanced his natural healing factor


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 28, 2014)

Wouldn't Armstrong's nanomachines be far more advanced and considerably more powerful than Vamp's, considering they make him the strongest character in the series?

How do we know the inhibitor would work on him at all?

Not to mention the difficulty involved in getting close enough to inject him without being splattered all over the surrounding buildings.


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## AngryHeretic (May 28, 2014)

What's stopping the Snakes from using their far superior stealth abilities to just snipe him with a bullet containing nanomachine inhibitors? Possibly by sticking the inhibitors on the railgun willyvereb mentioned. Armstrong has shown the ability to fight and react against visible threats well enough, but not against stealthy, low-key targets. 

Nanomachines are nanomachines. Unless there is something fundamentally different about their design, they should be disabled the same way. Otherwise, it would really have to come down to a well-placed sniper bullet somewhere Armstrong isn't protecting himself.


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 28, 2014)

AngryHeretic said:


> Nanomachines are nanomachines. Unless there is something fundamentally different about their design, they should be disabled the same way.



Armstrong's nanomachines give him different (and far more potent) abilities than Vamp's do, so there _is_ something fundamentally different about their design.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 28, 2014)

What about the Psycho Mantis Doll then?


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## Eldritch Sukima (May 28, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> What about the Psycho Mantis Doll then?



Hell if I know.

I'm no Metal Gear expert, I'm just wondering if it's valid to assume that an anti-nanomachine weapon will work on Armstrong just because it worked on a weaker character with a different, older type of nanomachines.


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## willyvereb (May 28, 2014)

There isn't much difference between Vamp's nanomachines and Armstrongs'.
Armstrong's nanomachines have a few extra tricks and canonically claimed to be stronger but that's it.
We don't have any implication it wouldn't be disabled by the nanomachine inhibitor.
Maybe it takes more time to work or perhaps you may even need to inject the serum directly into Armstrong's artificial heart but it should otherwise do its thing.
...Given if they can pierce the needle on a part that isn't covered by Armstong's hardened skin.
What MGRR Raiden's HF Blade cannot cut, neither should be pierced by a needle held by the Snakes.

Anyways, yeah, Psycho Mantis Doll should work to an extend.
It basically allows Snake to do pseudo-telekinesis on people injected with nanomachines.
Like controlling their movements or literally levitating them/throwing them around.
The Sorrow Doll allows doing the same but with dead bodies.
Technically allowing one to amass an entire small army of nanomachine-enhanced zombies.


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## Maki (May 28, 2014)

What about some kind of microwave based weapon?


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## TehChron (May 28, 2014)

I doubt thatd do a damn thing


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## Mr Dicklesworth (May 29, 2014)

The Snakes have no shot here. Period. The MGR villains are in an entirely different class than the characters from the Solid Series. Let's put it this way, MGS4 Raiden and Vamp were considerably stronger than Solid Snake at the time, and considered top tiers of the solid games. Then in MGR, Jetstream Sam effortlessly curbstomped a much stronger version of Raiden. Also, Armstrong>>>Sam. The syringe wouldn't do shit either. Armstrong was able to use his nanomachines to harden his body and make it pretty much impervious to anything short of the HF Blade Raiden used. The only chance in hell they have of winning is if they immediately use the Psycho Mantis doll to control Armstrong's nanomachines, and that's assuming they can even tag him. Any one of them would get 1 shotted by Armstrong, so they'd all have to attack him at once and have one guy stay back and use the doll. That's the only way I see them winning.


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## Adamant soul (May 29, 2014)

Mr Dicklesworth said:


> The Snakes have no shot here. Period. The MGR villains are in an entirely different class than the characters from the Solid Series. Let's put it this way, *MGS4 Raiden and Vamp were considerably stronger than Solid Snake at the time,* and considered top tiers of the solid games. Then in MGR, Jetstream Sam effortlessly curbstomped a much stronger version of Raiden. Also, Armstrong>>>Sam. The syringe wouldn't do shit either. Armstrong was able to use his nanomachines to harden his body and make it pretty much impervious to anything short of the HF Blade Raiden used. The only chance in hell they have of winning is if they immediately use the Psycho Mantis doll to control Armstrong's nanomachines, and that's assuming they can even tag him. Any one of them would get 1 shotted by Armstrong, so they'd all have to attack him at once and have one guy stay back and use the doll. That's the only way I see them winning.



Uh, Old Snake kicked Vamp's ass. That was how he was able to inject him with the nanomachine inhibitors in the first place.

Other than that, I don't have a problem with this post.


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