# Buffy/Angel vs Supernatural



## Aokiji (Dec 5, 2009)

Which show/s was better?


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## Rukia (Dec 5, 2009)

2 shows against 1?  lol.  I liked both Buffy and Angel more than Supernatural.

I would rank the 3 shows like this:

1.  Angel
2.  Buffy
3.  Supernatural


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## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 5, 2009)

Is this even a question? The Buffyverse was just awesome while with Supernatural I'm slightly embarrassed to even admit liking it.


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## Banhammer (Dec 5, 2009)

Buffyverse. It's just too big to compare.


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## Gabe (Dec 5, 2009)

angel was my favorite show. so the buffyverse


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 5, 2009)

the buffyverse is more...memorable. only because i grew up watching it. supernatural isn't bad though.


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## ez (Dec 5, 2009)

angel on avg is better than supernatural. buffy is pretty awful in comparison.


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## Comic Book Guy (Dec 5, 2009)

Angel takes it for me.

Shame it was cancelled.


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## Unbreakable (Dec 5, 2009)

Buffyverse is so much better imo. I would rank the shows as follow:
1. Buffy seasons 1-3
2. Angel
3. Supernatural
4. Buffy seasons 4-7(i pretty much forced myself to watch this show during season 7.)


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## Angelus (Dec 5, 2009)

I like Supernatural, but Angel is my favourite show EVER, so there's  really no contest.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Supernatural hands down. I don't even have to think about it. Its much better executed and with out Joss Whedon's preachy habits. If Angel had been stand alone and not had Westley I might think differently, but no this is Supernatural all the way.


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## shiki-fuujin (Dec 5, 2009)

supernatural hands freakign down, buffy and angels seemed like gimmicks to me.Supernatural on the other hand has it all;humor,storyline, memorable characters..etc


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

shiki-fuujin said:


> supernatural hands freakign down, buffy and angels seemed like gimmicks to me.Supernatural on the other hand has it all;humor,storyline, memorable characters..etc



That's the other thing, Supernatural also has a tighter story all around.


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## Sen (Dec 5, 2009)

I'd personally say Buffyverse   I have only seen a few episodes of Supernatural though, but it's also hard to compare when Buffy has had 7 seasons alone.  I love Buffy though, one of my favorite shows when I was younger.  Not all the seasons are fantastic, but some of them were just so awesome.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Sen said:


> I'd personally say Buffyverse   I have only seen a few episodes of Supernatural though, but it's also hard to compare when Buffy has had 7 seasons alone.  I love Buffy though, one of my favorite shows when I was younger.  Not all the seasons are fantastic, but some of them were just so awesome.



I watched all of Buffy, and really only four seasons were worth it from what I can tell. 4-6 were just horrible and seven was passable. 

Supernatural is in its last season now I think, this all feels final.


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## Rukia (Dec 5, 2009)

Couldn't disagree more.  For me, Supernaturals greatest weakness is the characters.  I find the characters of the show to be really boring and I don't care whether they live or die.  The plot is good, but I will never truly enjoy a show with such listless humdrum characters.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 5, 2009)

Rukia said:


> Couldn't disagree more.  For me, Supernaturals greatest weakness is the characters.  I find the characters of the show to be really boring and I don't care whether they live or die.  The plot is good, but I will never truly enjoy a show with such listless humdrum characters.



i kind of agree, besides Dean, everyone is way to serious(which is understandable because of the shit they go through xD) buffy and angel had more of a relaxing feeling while supernatural is intense.


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## Baka Neko (Dec 5, 2009)

Pff Supernatural ftw! I like Angel and Buffy as well, but Supernatural's story is just way better plus I love the characters although some of them might be annoying. I just hope this isnt the last season Dx


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## Ennoea (Dec 5, 2009)

Without Buffy there would be no Supernatural. The show was a cultural phenomenon and nothing beats a Buffy Season finale.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> Without Buffy there would be no Supernatural. The show was a cultural phenomenon and nothing beats a Buffy Season finale.



That's a faulty argument, there are a lot of things that were the precursor to other things, doesn't make them suck any less.


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## crazymtf (Dec 5, 2009)

I love angel but supernatural is better show. Buffy is below both.


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## Banhammer (Dec 5, 2009)

supernatural isn't above angel. Specially with the comics factored in.

I enjoyed Buffy. Alot. Still do on the ongoing series.
Maybe supernatural as a series is better than some seasons of buffy, but not the whole thing, not in the ninetees. You couldn't do supernatural in the late ninetees. Because let's admit early Buffy's tragic fault, it's horribly dated to anyone in late / outside highschool.
While Apocalipse is exciting, Angel allready fought in hell when the senior partners sent LA into it. The entire fucking city of LA, in hell. Buffyverse just has too much on their colt.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> supernatural isn't above angel. Specially with the comics factored in.
> 
> I enjoyed Buffy. Alot. Still do on the ongoing series.
> Maybe supernatural as a series is better than some seasons of buffy, but not the whole thing, not in the ninetees. You couldn't do supernatural in the late ninetees. Because let's admit early Buffy's tragic fault, it's horribly dated to anyone in late / outside highschool.
> While Apocalipse is exciting, Angel allready fought in hell when the senior partners sent LA into it. The entire fucking city of LA, in hell. Buffyverse just has too much on their colt.


This ain't Konoha Comic Book store.


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## Narcissus (Dec 5, 2009)

Buffy and Angel were much better shows by far in my opinion. I grew up on them and I loved the character so much more.

Supernatural really doesn't even begin to compare.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

It seems like a lot of you are affected by the nostalgia of these shows, I've watched them recently, and Buffy especially hasn't aged well at all.


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## Rukia (Dec 5, 2009)

I've watched Angel recently.

Angel and Spike were chasing after The Immortal in Rome.  Fucking hilarious.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Rukia said:


> I've watched Angel recently.
> 
> Angel and Spike were chasing after The Immortal in Rome.  Fucking hilarious.



That episode really made me kind of feel odd because it felt like they made up that character and had never mentioned it before (which is what was done) then Sarah Michelle Gellar being the diva that she is wouldn't come back to reprise her role because she got too big for Joss. It just felt like they should have left Buffy out of that season whenever they could.


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## Narcissus (Dec 5, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It seems like a lot of you are affected by the nostalgia of these shows, I've watched them recently, and Buffy especially hasn't aged well at all.



Despite the fact that it had a huge impact on pop culture and the its genre of fiction?

I've also watched them recently, and I stand by my reasoning. I loved the characters on Buffy much more than any on Suoernatural, as well as other factors. Don't get me wrong, Supernaturral is a decent show. I'm just saying it's not as good to me.

This is all a matter of opinion anyway.



Rukia said:


> I've watched Angel recently.
> 
> Angel and Spike were chasing after The Immortal in Rome.  Fucking hilarious.



Angle and Spike together was always the best.

"It's..... Mountain Dew..."


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Despite the fact that it had a huge impact on pop culture and the its genre of fiction?
> 
> I've also watched them recently, and I stand by my reasoning. I loved the characters on Buffy much more than any on Suoernatural, as well as other factors.



By your shaky, hole filled Logic, Twilight is more significant than both. Thanks for playing though.


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## Narcissus (Dec 5, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> By your shaky, hole filled Logic, Twilight is more significant than both. Thanks for playing though.



Oh please, don't tell me you're still upset over the New Moon thread. 

Comparing Buffy and Angel to Twilight is just low and idiotic. But the funny thing is that you're back tracking. You actually defend Twilight, but as soon  as it became useful to you, you use it in a negative light.

Nice try though.


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## Ennoea (Dec 5, 2009)

> By your shaky, hole filled Logic, Twilight is more significant than both.



Not really, Buffy created the ultimate fandom at its peak, Twilight is nothing in comparison and will be soon forgotten when the braindead fangirls move on to something else, just look at how quickly the HSM fad ended.



> I've watched them recently, and Buffy especially hasn't aged well at all.



Buffy's aged okay, Supernatural is a great show but has it had the same impact? I think its the characters that made Buffy and Angel, Supernatural falls at this hurdle.


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## Rukia (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm sure you are at least willing to admit this one thing, Cardboard.  Angel was a more versatile show than Supernatural.  Angel was capable of being an incredibly dark show.  But it was also capable of being very funny.  The tone changed scene to scene.  Supernatural is more stagnant in this respect.  It's always dark and depressing.  No humor.  No good days.


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## Banhammer (Dec 5, 2009)

Buffy was essentially the breakthrough of the action girl, the first damnsel that ends disstress.
It might not feel as great now that you've grown out of most of the early methaphors, which by the way, did a brilliant job of using them for a ninetees show, but it's still a pretty epic show.

And Once Again, With Feeling will always beat supernatural "light hearted eppies" such as the tv show and the ones with Chuck.

And you can't say Supernatural is completly innocent. I was almost emberrassed about it when the supernatural-con episode came out of them making fun of the brothers ocasional overly dramatic streaks and speeches.

With that said, you can't compare a show about "vampires, apocalypse, homework" that was buffy, and "Batman in LA" that was angel with "riding your impala cross country killing demons with shotguns" that is supernatural
They're really two diffrent things.


You think offing jo and her daughter was rough?


Try killing off Fred. Remember Fred?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> Not really, Buffy created the ultimate fandom at its peak, Twilight is nothing in comparison and will be soon forgotten when the braindead fangirls move on to something else, just look at how quickly the HSM fad ended.



Cultural impact has nothing to do with how good something is actually. Not sure how that got dragged into things.



Ennoea said:


> Buffy's aged okay, Supernatural is a great show but has it had the same impact? I think its the characters that made Buffy and Angel, Supernatural falls at this hurdle.



I hate 60% of the characters Buffy had (in the end including Buffy herself.) Supernatural has had very few characters I actually couldn't stand and no storylines I hated. 

Hell the guy who plays Castiel might just be one of the most talented actor I have seen in a while since he essentially played two people extremely well. 

There's no one area I can think of where either of these shows trump Supernatural, if it was Firefly, there's be far more to brag about but in terms of Buffy and Angel, nothing. 



Rukia said:


> I'm sure you are at least willing to admit this one thing, Cardboard.  Angel was a more versatile show than Supernatural.  Angel was capable of being an incredibly dark show.  But it was also capable of being very funny.  The tone changed scene to scene.  Supernatural is more stagnant in this respect.  It's always dark and depressing.  No humor.  No good days.



Actually I think you're thinking of Buffy. Supernatural has made me laugh in Season 5 more than Angel ever did. While Angel was good at this I think Supernatural does it better and without extending the suspension of disbelief too far. 

Also the thematically Supernatural fits together tighter.



Banhammer said:


> Buffy was essentially the breakthrough of the action girl, the first damnsel that ends disstress.
> It might not feel as great now that you've grown out of most of the early methaphors, which by the way, did a brilliant job of using them for a ninetees show, but it's still a pretty epic show.



I doubt that Buffy did that. 



Banhammer said:


> And Once Again, With Feeling will always beat supernatural "light hearted eppies" such as the tv show and the ones with Chuck.



Not really, it was good as far as Musicals go but it was a huge plot device that took itself too far and basically used music to force out all of the kinks in the plot. The Scrubs musical was better and funnier. 



Banhammer said:


> And you can't say Supernatural is completly innocent. I was almost emberrassed about it when the supernatural-con episode came out of them making fun of the brothers ocasional overly dramatic streaks and speeches.



The comic con episode was funny and still made sense considering their entire show exists in the show as books that word for word follow things. 



Banhammer said:


> With that said, you can't compare a show about "vampires, apocalypse, homework" that was buffy, and "Batman in LA" that was angel with "riding your impala cross country killing demons with shotguns" that is supernatural
> They're really two diffrent things.


I don't think you really got what I was saying. Comparing the Spiderman cartoon to the Xmen cartoon is one thing, when you bring the comics into plays another story. 

Don't try to strawman me off target, I know what I was saying. 




Banhammer said:


> You think offing jo and her daughter was rough?


That actually shocked me, alot. 



Banhammer said:


> Try killing off Fred. Remember Fred?


Yeah I also remember Fred basically just became another person so it didn't bother me that much.


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## darkangelcel (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm a buffy freak... so guess my answer ^^


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## Narcissus (Dec 5, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Buffy was essentially the breakthrough of the action girl, the first damnsel that ends disstress.
> It might not feel as great now that you've grown out of most of the early methaphors, which by the way, did a brilliant job of using them for a ninetees show, but it's still a pretty epic show.
> 
> And Once Again, With Feeling will always beat supernatural "light hearted eppies" such as the tv show and the ones with Chuck.
> ...



That episode's title is actually "Once More, With Feeling"

And trust me, Card remembers Fred. I know because I wore a set of Illyria a little while ago and he had a conversation with me about how much he liked Fred.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> That episode's title is actually "Once More, With Feeling"
> 
> And trust me, Card remembers Fred. I know because I wore a set of Illyria a little while ago and he had a conversation with me about how much he liked Fred.



Yeah I liked Fred, but in the end she's not making me say Angel is the better show. There are so many Buffy verse character I didn't like who were there far too long, Xander, Harmony, Westley, I hated Spike before he moved to Angel, Anya, that girl Willow dated who got shot, the nerds who shot her....the list goes on.


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## Ennoea (Dec 5, 2009)

> The Scrubs musical was better and funnier.



No just no.


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## Onomatopoeia (Dec 5, 2009)

I don't know how this is even a matter of discussion. Buffyverse > Supernatural in every way, shape and/or form.

Supernatural has its moments once in a blue moon, I'll grant you, but in general it is dull and boring and not very interesting at all.

Compare Buffy which has its ups and downs, but its ups are more common and more up(as it were).

Most interesting Supernatural character/episode. Trickster. It was mildly entertaining. At best.

Compare one of Buffy-verse's many most interesting character/episodes. Sweet and Once More, With Feeling.

Any fool can see that Sweet utterly outclasses the Trickster. He's got style, he's got charm. He's an excellent singer. What more do you need?

Anyone who thinks that Supernatural is better than Buffy needs to spend an extended vacation with Josef Mengele.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 5, 2009)

It's like I walked into Bizzaro World.


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## Bathroom_Mop (Dec 5, 2009)

Buffy and Angel were good, but I prefer Supernatural. I find the overall story much better since the writers seem to have a particular ending in mind. I find both fun to watch but can't really compare them to each other as they are so different


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## -Dargor- (Dec 5, 2009)

1.Angel
2.Supernatural
3.Buffy


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## Ennoea (Dec 5, 2009)

I think I might be the only one but I really liked later seasons of Buffy, Joss Whedon had balls to do stuff way out of his comfort zone, even if some of it didn't work out.


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## Narcissus (Dec 6, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not really, it was good as far as Musicals go but it was a huge plot device that took itself too far and basically used music to force out all of the kinks in the plot. The Scrubs musical was better and funnier.







Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's like I walked into Bizzaro World.



Okay, do you always whine this much when people disagree with your opinion? 



Ennoea said:


> I think I might be the only one but I really liked later seasons of Buffy



You're not.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Okay, do you always whine this much when people disagree with your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> You're not.



Wow you sure showed me, what with you lack of anything that could be considered and argument...


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## Narcissus (Dec 6, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Wow you sure showed me, what with you lack of anything that could be considered and argument...



Because in this case we'd just be going in circles. It's all a matter of opinion (and you're whining just because people are disagreeing with yours) so it really won't get us anywhere.

And if you want to talk arguments, then you should stop acting so high and mighty after the way I ran circles around you during our argument in the New Moon thread.

I tried to be civil, but you had to become confrontational just because people weren't agreeing with you. Calm down, it really isn't that big of a deal.


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## Rukia (Dec 6, 2009)

Discussion is pointless when neither side will concede anything.  I expected I would at least be able to get Cardboard to acknowledge that Angel had more comedy.  (Since I have never laughed even once while watching Supernatural, but no such luck.)

I actually thought this thread would be trashed by now since it seemed so random.  

There are better comparisons to make for Supernatural.  Fringe would be a better comparison and I would give the nod to Supernatural in that instance.


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## Narcissus (Dec 6, 2009)

I admit to laughing once in Supernatural, when they poked fun at the fandom by mentioning slash fanfiction between Sam and Dean. I was caught off-guard with that.

But otherwise, both Buffy and Angel made me laugh a whole lot more.


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## crazymtf (Dec 6, 2009)

Rukia said:


> Discussion is pointless when neither side will concede anything.  I expected I would at least be able to get Cardboard to acknowledge that Angel had more comedy.  (Since I have never laughed even once while watching Supernatural, but no such luck.)
> 
> I actually thought this thread would be trashed by now since it seemed so random.
> 
> There are better comparisons to make for Supernatural.  Fringe would be a better comparison and I would give the nod to Supernatural in that instance.



Ugh fringe? Atleast angel and buffy are good. 

Regardless all 3 are good, I dunno why people would have to argue when they can enjoy all 3.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

I actually don't consider Buffy good, I mean less than half of the seasons were good so that kind of clenches it for me.


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## Aokiji (Dec 6, 2009)

Rukia said:


> I'm sure you are at least willing to admit this one thing, Cardboard.  Angel was a more versatile show than Supernatural.  Angel was capable of being an incredibly dark show.  But it was also capable of being very funny.  The tone changed scene to scene.  Supernatural is more stagnant in this respect. * It's always dark and depressing.  No humor.  No good days.*



Really? 

Then again I'm not really far along...



Rukia said:


> Discussion is pointless when neither side will concede anything.  I expected I would at least be able to get Cardboard to acknowledge that Angel had more comedy.  (*Since I have never laughed even once while watching Supernatural,* but no such luck.)
> 
> I actually thought this thread would be trashed by now since it seemed so random.
> 
> There are better comparisons to make for Supernatural.  Fringe would be a better comparison and I would give the nod to Supernatural in that instance.



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkz-gXoL6rk[/YOUTUBE]


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

Aokiji said:


> Really?
> 
> Then again I'm not really far along...


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## Trism (Dec 6, 2009)

I have to go for Buffy and Angel. I never found Supernatural all that interesting to be honest. And as for a matter of humor, Buffy and Angel always had me laughing at something in every episode. Supernatural, only every so often.

That's why he 90's were the best. *sighs in memory*


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## Banhammer (Dec 6, 2009)

No one needs to try and downplay Supernatural. It's really fnu. But let's admit it, up untill some time ago, they got stiff too.
And on another hand, while we simpathise so much with the winchester brothers, when real shit happened to a buffy or angel character we would be crying, sucking our thumbs and rocking ourselves to sleep that night.

Also, there is some humor in supernatural, here and there.
Dean screaming like a girl and doing the Eye of Tiger
"Suck it, Twilight!"
"Don't they know we're brothers?"
"We're brothers, ma'am"
"Can you feel my heart beat Sammy! Can you feel me in your soul?"
etc...

But none of them touch Muppet Angel.
It's allright though, Supernatural dosen't have to be a funny show. In fact I couldn't bear to watch Ghostfacers. It's a good thing. It's a "fuck your funnies"

But then again, they don't do the "serious" as good as whedon. It's allright though, I don't expect shakira to sing like kristin chenowitz


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> No one needs to try and downplay Supernatural. It's really fnu. But let's admit it, up untill some time ago, they got stiff too.
> And on another hand, while we simpathise so much with the winchester brothers, when real shit happened to a buffy or angel character we would be crying, sucking our thumbs and rocking ourselves to sleep that night.
> 
> Also, there is some humor in supernatural, here and there.
> ...



I can't get why people wank over Whedon so much, there's many parts of Buffy and Angel where I could have written better dialogue. And his characters on his two flagship shows were basic retellings of one another. I liked most of the Angel cast, but they were very similar (albeit better) than the Buffy cast.


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## Havoc (Dec 6, 2009)

Angel
Supernatural
Buffy


I actually have gone back and watched Angel multiple times, it gets kind of boring doing that with Supernatural.

CTK, I think Supernatural might run for 1 more season.  It's looks like this is the end, but CW will probably pick it up again.  What else do they have that could take its place?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

Havoc said:


> Angel
> Supernatural
> Buffy
> 
> ...



The CW did pick it up again and I think the creators are turning it down. I really think they're wanting this to end soon, which is good. It sucks seeing a show go too long. I'd rather they end early and planned out. 

And I am unable to watch anything a lot unless its been a while or its Seinfeld.


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## Havoc (Dec 6, 2009)

I wish Angel had run for at least one more season. :\


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 6, 2009)

Havoc said:


> I wish Angel had run for at least one more season. :\



That is my biggest issue with Angel, the lack of true ending, I was vastly disappointed with the way it went down. The comic is nice but it doesn't do it justice for me.


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## Yakushi Kabuto (Dec 6, 2009)

Overall I liked Buffy more than Supernatural. Angel was fun but I still preferred Buffy. What I do like a lot about Supernatural is the sometimes strained camaraderie of the brothers and the great humorous moments it had. But something about Buffy constantly had me hooked, I'm not even really sure what.


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## ~Gesy~ (Dec 6, 2009)

Havoc said:


> I wish Angel had run for at least one more season. :\



they continued it in comic form


*Spoiler*: __ 



as punishment for the rebellion the firmed sinked the whole city into hell 





funny this thread was made because i've been think of watching buffy and angel over. maybe i'll buy the disc sets


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## DisgustingIdiot (Dec 6, 2009)

One reason I really do think Buffyverse>Supernatural is that Joss Whedon really made me care about his characters.

I mean when 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Tara died


 I was absolutely gutted but 
*Spoiler*: __ 



recently when Joe and her mum died


 I can honestly say I didn't care.

And then 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Tara dying opened door for dark willow who was fucking awesome.


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## Nae'blis (Dec 6, 2009)

Buffy is the greatest show that has ever appeared on television, seconded by Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2009)

1. Supernatural
2. Angel
3. Buffy

Supernatural is better than the others for a lot of reasons, really. The main characters are better (Yeah, Dean > Angel + Spike combined), the story is better, it's 80x funnier, it has better horror elements when it wants to, it has better music, and it has hotter babes. And babes are all that matter.

Angel did have a couple things going for it, like better vampires and some of the enemies were a little more interesting. It just can't keep up.


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## MajorThor (Dec 7, 2009)

shiki-fuujin said:


> supernatural hands freakign down, buffy and angels seemed like gimmicks to me.Supernatural on the other hand has it all;humor,storyline, memorable characters..etc



You are no longer welcome in my Fringe thread. The tribunal has decreed, you are to remove any and all Fringe related medias from your signature and avatars.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2009)

Before I get banned from the Fringe thread let me clarify:

Angel and Buffy are still two of my all-time favorite shows. I just like Supernatural a little more.


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## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2009)

When fred died I curled up to a ball.

"Why can't I stay.. just a little while longer?"


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2009)

I also curled into a ball when Fred died.

In a failed attempt at autofellatio.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

I think a lot of you in here are wearing Nostalgia googles. Especially in regards of Buffy.


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## MajorThor (Dec 7, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> By your shaky, hole filled Logic, Twilight is more significant than both. Thanks for playing though.



Except for Edward was based off ANGEL!!


*Spoiler*: __ 



not rly lol


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

MajorThor said:


> Except for Edward was based off ANGEL!!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I am starting to wonder where The Ring of Amara came from because the same type of thing is in Vampire Diaries and that book was written before Buffy came out.


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## MajorThor (Dec 7, 2009)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Before I get banned from the Fringe thread let me clarify:
> 
> Angel and Buffy are still two of my all-time favorite shows. I just like Supernatural a little more.



Ur not banned. Just limited to 2 posts per week. MAJORTHOR HATH SPOKEN


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## Narcissus (Dec 7, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> there's many parts of Buffy and Angel where I could have written better dialogue.



And Supernatural has the perfect dialogue, eh? 



> And his characters on his two flagship shows were basic retellings of one another. I liked most of the Angel cast, but they were very similar (albeit better) than the Buffy cast.



And yet they are still better than Supernatural's characters, especially the villains. The Mayor, Glory, Illyria, and Angelus will always be better than LILITH-CHAN!



~Gesy~ said:


> funny this thread was made because i've been think of watching buffy and angel over. maybe i'll buy the disc sets



I'd recommend it. Both shows are a lot of fun to go back and watch.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think a lot of you in here are wearing Nostalgia googles. Especially in regards of Buffy.



And the two shows must have done something right to leave such a strong impression on its viewers.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 7, 2009)

MajorThor said:


> Ur not banned. Just limited to 2 posts per week. MAJORTHOR HATH SPOKEN


 I can live with that. I'm usually down to 1 post per week anyway. 

It's not by choice, just that the thread is entirely inactive.


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## Al-Yasa (Dec 7, 2009)

buffy got crap after season 3


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> And Supernatural has the perfect dialogue, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're fighting a failing battle, Illyria is hardly a villain, the Mayor and Glory were lame. (especially Glory)

Season 5 of Buffy was almost as unwatchable as season 4. There's far too many horrible characters on Buffy that I was glad to see go when they did. 

And Lilith (the first woman) and Lucifer (the Devil) will always be better villians than pretty much anything on Angel and Buffy. 

Likewise, the dialogue is much cleaner because Joss Whedon doesn't have the best dialogue in his shows, everyone is too witty all of the time, people don't really talk like that and it flows too well in places where it shouldn't.

The entire high school fighting the mayor was just silly, it ruined all of season 3 and pretty much made me wonder how it was a secret that there were demons anywhere in the world after that. 

Also the FBI and cops never getting involved in all of that seemed lame, especially considering the amount of deaths in Sunnydale. Of course Supernatural addressed that, and they move around and use fake names so it makes sense. 

Seriously if you want to get all butthurt that I don't like those shows that your place, but I'll keep swatting it down. Angel and Buffy are okay shows, well Angel is the better show because Buffy just fails after season 3. But I still like X-Files more than them and Supernatural more too. Not going to change really and you're not going to somehow reminded me of something to change my mind. 

You're doing a bad job of it and coming off as arrogant or like you're trying to tease.


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## Narcissus (Dec 7, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You're fighting a failing battle, Illyria is hardly a villain, the Mayor and Glory were lame. (especially Glory)



And this is where we get into the whole thing about opinions.



> Season 5 of Buffy was almost as unwatchable as season 4. There's far too many horrible characters on Buffy that I was glad to see go when they did.



I agree that season 4 of Buffy was bad, but not season 5.



> And Lilith (the first woman) and Lucifer (the Devil) will always be better villians than pretty much anything on Angel and Buffy.



Once again, opinions.



> Likewise, the dialogue is much cleaner because Joss Whedon doesn't have the best dialogue in his shows, everyone is too witty all of the time, people don't really talk like that and it flows too well in places where it shouldn't.



Ah, a good job dodging my question. I restate it: do you think Supernatural has perfect dialogue?



> The entire high school fighting the mayor was just silly, it ruined all of season 3 and pretty much made me wonder how it was a secret that there were demons anywhere in the world after that.



Ignoring the fact that people were aware of supernatural activity in Sunnydale, but constantly in denial. They even addressed this in the show.



> Also the FBI and cops never getting involved in all of that seemed lame, especially considering the amount of deaths in Sunnydale. Of course Supernatural addressed that, and they move around and use fake names so it makes sense.



There was a secret government operation dedicated to capturing and studying demons.



> Seriously if you want to get all butthurt that I don't like those shows that your place, but I'll keep swatting it down.



Hypocrite much? All throughout this thread you've been bitching and moaning because a lot of people disagreed with your opinion. All I've done is discuss the differences of opinions, but you became hostile. If anyone is butthurt, it's clearly you.



> Angel and Buffy are okay shows, well Angel is the better show because Buffy just fails after season 3.



Again, difference of opinion. The only season of Buffy I really disliked was 4, and even that season had some great episodes (Hush).




> But I still like X-Files more than them and Supernatural more too. Not going to change really and you're not going to somehow reminded me of something to change my mind.



The X-Files was a great show, also far superior to Supernatural.



> You're doing a bad job of it and coming off as arrogant or like you're trying to tease.



Only as bad of a job as you've been doing yourself. And no I'm not being arrogant or teasing, I'm simply stating my point of view. Lighten up and get off your high horse.


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## Linkdarkside (Dec 7, 2009)

i like Supernatural better


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> I agree that season 4 of Buffy was bad, but not season 5.



What made 4 so bad was Riley. So when he left of course it got much better. But still the ass pull of adding Dawn, the handling of Dracula, the handling of a lot of things in five irked me. And I never liked Tara.



Narcissus said:


> Ah, a good job dodging my question. I restate it: do you think Supernatural has perfect dialogue?



Perfect? No, I don't know of a show with perfect dialogue, better than Buff and Angel? Yes. 



Narcissus said:


> Ignoring the fact that people were aware of supernatural activity in Sunnydale, but constantly in denial. They even addressed this in the show.



 They handled it in a comedic manner that seemed more like lampshade hanging and didn't take care of the obvious problems with the story in that regard. 



Narcissus said:


> There was a secret government operation dedicated to capturing and studying demons.



 Which seemed to be a knee jerk reaction and would have meant they'd be semi-common knowledge. Supernatural had a hand full of people find out, help them fake their deaths and then die themselves. All bases covered. 



Narcissus said:


> Hypocrite much? All throughout this thread you've been bitching and moaning because a lot of people disagreed with your opinion. All I've done is discuss the differences of opinions, but you became hostile. If anyone is butthurt, it's clearly you.



 Not butthurt, more shocked by people's taste in shows than anything and the evidence some use to defend it. Coming first and having more characters don't make shows better. 



Narcissus said:


> Again, difference of opinion. The only season of Buffy I really disliked was 4, and even that season had some great episodes (Hush).



Hush was good, not deserving of an award like it got. But oddly enough, it features hardly any talking...I guess dialogue is what hindered Whedon 



Narcissus said:


> The X-Files was a great show, also far superior to Supernatural.



Depends on how Supernatural ends.


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## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2009)

Calling Lilith and Lucifer better villans than anything buffyverse has come up with, when they are an off screen slut that likes to wear children (and nothing else) and a guy that is less of a chuckles than the mayor makes me laugh, and who for big bads(a term by the way, coined by buffy), have done little more than cameos, directly or otherwise.

Specially when you got the fall of Angelus, the badassness of Spike, who got de-spikefied only to be rebooted again, Darla's mind games, dursilla's lovable looneyness, Lindsay's ambiguity, the Senior Partners, Glory's unrelenting queen bitch, Evil Willow's pain, Cordelia's growth, the Mayor light heartedness, Jasmine's rise, the agravating conservativeness of the Watcher's council, and the "FUCK YOU!" that was the battle against the circle of the black thorn and so on to compare with.



I laugh. Bitterfully


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## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2009)

> Coming first and having more characters don't make shows better.


Building real charactes and make themselves rely on each other however, tends to work better than just making the batman brothers.


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## Havoc (Dec 7, 2009)

Al-Yasa said:


> buffy got crap after season 3



Because Angel left.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Calling Lilith and Lucifer better villans than anything buffyverse has come up with, when they are an off screen slut that likes to wear children (and nothing else) and a guy that is less of a chuckles than the mayor makes me laugh, and who for big bads(a term by the way, coined by buffy), have done little more than cameos, directly or otherwise.



Chuckles? Despite what you might think not everyone needs to laugh all of the time to enjoy something. If you want a comedy go watch one, bad guys don't need to be a laugh riot to be good or memorable. 

And Lilith took a few adult bodies and the only sex she ever tried to have was to seal a deal if I remember correctly as is part of the contract demon's way. (kisses seal small deals, sex the big ones) 

Wolfram and Hart was the best villain group in the Buffy verse I think and the most interesting. Buffy had shit villains with the exception of Angelus. I didn't like Spike as a villain and I only really liked him after he moved to Angel. 



Banhammer said:


> Specially when you got the fall of Angelus, the badassness of Spike, who got de-spikefied only to be rebooted again, Darla's mind games, dursilla's lovable looneyness, Lindsay's ambiguity, the Senior Partners, Glory's unrelenting queen bitch, Evil Willow's pain, Cordelia's growth, the Mayor light heartedness, Jasmine's rise, the agravating conservativeness of the Watcher's council, and the "FUCK YOU!" that was the battle against the circle of the black thorn and so on to compare with.



Yeah a lot of that seemed far too forced and not well planned out enough, Wolfram and Hart I loved, but besides that most of the other characters described above just didn't hit home for me. I hated all of the season 6 happenings to do with Willow and her magic, I hated how they handled Glory and pretty much everything about that character (although Spike realizing what was up was funny) Lindsay and Lilah were some of my favorite villains because unlike a lot of things in the Buffyverse they weren't forced to be evil by nature.



Banhammer said:


> Building real charactes and make themselves rely on each other however, tends to work better than just making the batman brothers.



Not sure what show you're watching, but the Brother's aren't even the most bad ass characters in the show and they frequently need help and rely on others.


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## Ennoea (Dec 7, 2009)

My biggest issue with Supernatural has been the rinse and repeat feeling I get with the villains in the series. Especially in series 4, so many of the eps just seemed like repeats.


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## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2009)

By Chuckles, I mean, Chucky the assassin doll, by which I mean, hides apocalipse behind a smile, a chuckle.

Batman Brothers are the main cast, who, like always, are lost.

They both have been through alot of shit together, but, hey look at character growth in buffy verse and measure it against supernatural

Every character changes. Willow, Cordelia, Xander, Anya, Angel, Fred, Giles, Buffy, Fred, Wesle, Gunn, Dawn, fuck, everyone. They all grow and change.

Season five of supernatural and even the big bads are about how Sam and Dean are still the same.


Which isn't a trully bad thing. Only goes to my point supernatural and buffyverse are good on seperate subjects


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## Nightfall (Dec 7, 2009)

I would say I liked Angel and Buffy more, there was just more variation and better character growth. And who hasn't gotten at least a tiny tiny bit tired of seeing mostly Sam and Dean every episode for almost five seasons? Yes Supernatural has some good recurring characters, but aside from Castiel I haven't felt that attached to anyone.. Oh and Yellow Eyes>most other villains so far imo

Buffy had Dawn, but Angel had....Connor


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 7, 2009)

Nightfall said:


> I would say I liked Angel and Buffy more, there was just more variation and better character growth. And who hasn't gotten at least a tiny tiny bit tired of seeing mostly Sam and Dean every episode for almost five seasons? Yes Supernatural has some good recurring characters, but aside from Castiel I haven't felt that attached too anyone.. Oh and Yellow Eyes>most other villains so far imo
> 
> Buffy had Dawn, but Angel had....Connor


Season 5 Connor >>>>>>> Season 4 Connor.


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## crazymtf (Dec 7, 2009)

^Agreed. Conner was a good character IMO, dawn however was not. And I can't understand the love season 3 gets for buffy, i thought that season was mostly boring, season 4 basically sucked, season 5 IMO was one of the best seasons only cause the season finale, season 6 was crap, season 7 was decent. Yeah supernatural has far better streak then buffy, a better show for sure. 

Angel was constinatly good with the exception of season 4 mostly being dumb but I didn't love season 3 of supernatural either. However I believe season 2, season 4, and season 5 so far of supernatural have been up there with the best of angel for sure .


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## Banhammer (Dec 7, 2009)

Supernatural had a strong first season, a standard second with beginings of development of a plot, a risky third, with a good plot line, but with the whole, OMG Sam is the new hell king being over played demons demons demons, the angels in the fourth saved the show from going down the hill by shaking up the mithology, and making up for half awesome(fucking angels of the Lord . And they're douchebags ), and half unitresting and mediocre (they sometimes tried to stop the apocalipse by looking at casual hauntings? The battle had very little of the actual weight and impact it should have had, even though that was explained at the finale.)
And the fifth. The fifth on one hand, has been like that moment, when you're about to fall off your chair but you catch yourself at the last second. Only all the time. But on the other, there's alot of whining....


Also, for everyone's benefit, Angel has angels aswell. The Potentates. And they're not necessarly nice guys either.


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## Rukia (Dec 7, 2009)

Battlestar Galactica.


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Dec 7, 2009)

Angel rules over the other two for sure.


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## MajorThor (Dec 8, 2009)

What's all this Pro-Connor talk? He was some delinquent emo bitch who had a SEVERE mindfuck complex because of Holts. No lie, I hated Connor with a burning passion. He could never see the fact that he was TORN from his REAL father's arms while being an infant and Holts was the bad guy because he's too emotionally underdeveloped to know the difference between kidnapping and babysitting. I mean, come on...how many people does it take saying the same thing "You were kidnapped by Holts, your real father and the one that's loved you since birth is Angel." before it sinks in and makes you stop being such a cry baby fucking bitch? God damn, Connor killed the show for me...until then... I absolutely loved it. Also, what was with Charisma Carpenter getting preggers in the middle of a series/season so abruptly anyway? Kareer Killer IMO, what's she been in since?

Also: I'm noticing some Supernatural Fanboys/Girls here who are penis/vagina hurt on the fact that people actually don't like shows just because you got 2 hot bitches in it. Yeah, I'm a guy and am comfortable enough with my sexuality to say the Winchester Brothers are attractive. I've seen numerous episodes of the show and I felt it lacked both in plot and back story. What? Their daddy/lineage can see ghosts and deal with them accordingly? Go watch Ghostwhisperer, Medium or hell...the fucking Ghostbusters...all three have superior plots and character developments. When I watched Supernatural I felt like I was watching Halloween Town 12, Return of the Great Fail.


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## Narcissus (Dec 8, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What made 4 so bad was Riley. So when he left of course it got much better. But still the ass pull of adding Dawn, the handling of Dracula, the handling of a lot of things in five irked me. And I never liked Tara.



I agree completely about Riley. He was one of the worst characters in the Buffyverse, along with Conor and Dawn. I was always left wishing he would be killed off the show via some painful method.

Anyway, I enjoyed the way they delt with Dracula, especially the end. And I was very much willing to put up with Dawn for the exit of Riley.



> Perfect? No, I don't know of a show with perfect dialogue, better than Buff and Angel? Yes.



To me, Supernatural lacks the wit of Buffy Speak.





> They handled it in a comedic manner that seemed more like lampshade hanging and didn't take care of the obvious problems with the story in that regard.



Because the people were in denial over the supernatural forces at work in their town. But eventually people do begin to acknowledge it, such as when they give Buffy the Protector Award in season 3, and when they finally evacuate Sunnydale in season 7.

And comedy was one of the means the show used to reach its audience, and it worked very well.



> Which seemed to be a knee jerk reaction and would have meant they'd be semi-common knowledge. Supernatural had a hand full of people find out, help them fake their deaths and then die themselves. All bases covered.



So you're complaining that they didn't do things the way you wanted it done. Got cha.



> Not butthurt, more shocked by people's taste in shows than anything and the evidence some use to defend it. Coming first and having more characters don't make shows better.



This is interesting, coming from someone who will adamantly defend Twilight.

And it's the fact that Joss made people care about his characters. You could really feel the pain they did every time they suffered. Dean and Sam really don't do that too  well. I didn't feel any pity for Dean when he went to hell. Now Angel, on the other hand...



> Hush was good, not deserving of an award like it got. But oddly enough, it features hardly any talking...I guess dialogue is what hindered Whedon



Considering the Buffy Speak, and how well-received Once More with Feeling was, I don't think so. It's was just the fact the episode idea was very creative and it was carried out well.



> Depends on how Supernatural ends.



Well, The X-Files could have had a better ending, but overall I still find it to be a better show than Supernatural.



MajorThor said:


> What's all this Pro-Connor talk? He was some delinquent emo bitch who had a SEVERE mindfuck complex because of Holts. No lie, I hated Connor with a burning passion.



I completely agree. Conor was a shitty character and would have loved to see him get a sword through his chest, but I was willing to settle for Angel, and Faith, beating his ass.



> When I watched Supernatural I felt like I was watching Halloween Town 12, Return of the Great Fail.


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## Ennoea (Dec 8, 2009)

Season 4 started out well enough but Riley was an awful character and by the end the season was mediocre, mostly thanks to him but how can I hate a season that gave us Hush? Dawn is a strange one for me, her character was annoying but I actually liked her dynamic with Buffy. 

And yes I liked Dark Willow too, her descent, her fucked up love story, I even still remember the ending scene with Xander. My biggest issue with the later season was Buffy/Spike, honestly after Angel she really didn't match with anyone at all. And SMG's acting was pretty awful later on.


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## Banhammer (Dec 8, 2009)

Cnner kinda was a little bit The Wesley (ironic, since the guy named Wesley was actually badass) but even the show acknowledged it a little bit, making it humorous.
Fred: So he's all sulky because he spent time in a hell dimension. Who hasn't?
And then no one raises their arm.


Also, I don't really have anything against Riley. He was like an anthetesis to Angel. Someone who drives himself to unhealthy situations because he naively wants to be with a girl with issues. Which ironically saves him, but also drives him off the deep end.


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## Narcissus (Dec 8, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> Season 4 started out well enough but Riley was an awful character and by the end the season was mediocre, mostly thanks to him but how can I hate a season that gave us Hush? Dawn is a strange one for me, her character was annoying but I actually liked her dynamic with Buffy.
> 
> And yes I liked Dark Willow too, her descent, her fucked up love story, I even still remember the ending scene with Xander. My biggest issue with the later season was Buffy/Spike, honestly after Angel she really didn't match with anyone at all. And SMG's acting was pretty awful later on.



The fact that Dawn worked well with Buffy was the redeeming factor to me, what made her far more bearable than Conor and Riley.

And Dark Willow was awesome. Turning Willow into a villain was a good move, and her ending scene with Xander was so well done. See, THAT is how you make the audience care about the characters on a TV show.

As for Buffy/Spike, well they did mess him up quite a bit, especially with the whole chip deal, but they fixed the issue at the end by having him epically destroy Sunnydale to save the world, then putting him on Angel.


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## crazymtf (Dec 8, 2009)

MajorThor said:


> What's all this Pro-Connor talk? He was some delinquent emo bitch who had a SEVERE mindfuck complex because of Holts. No lie, I hated Connor with a burning passion. He could never see the fact that he was TORN from his REAL father's arms while being an infant and Holts was the bad guy because he's too emotionally underdeveloped to know the difference between kidnapping and babysitting. I mean, come on...how many people does it take saying the same thing "You were kidnapped by Holts, your real father and the one that's loved you since birth is Angel." before it sinks in and makes you stop being such a cry baby fucking bitch? God damn, Connor killed the show for me...until then... I absolutely loved it. Also, what was with Charisma Carpenter getting preggers in the middle of a series/season so abruptly anyway? Kareer Killer IMO, what's she been in since?
> 
> Also: I'm noticing some Supernatural Fanboys/Girls here who are penis/vagina hurt on the fact that people actually don't like shows just because you got 2 hot bitches in it. Yeah, I'm a guy and am comfortable enough with my sexuality to say the Winchester Brothers are attractive. I've seen numerous episodes of the show and I felt it lacked both in plot and back story. What? Their daddy/lineage can see ghosts and deal with them accordingly? Go watch Ghostwhisperer, Medium or hell...the fucking Ghostbusters...all three have superior plots and character developments. When I watched Supernatural I felt like I was watching Halloween Town 12, Return of the Great Fail.



Yeah conner bitched alot but he also was raised to hate someone. When your raised by someone to hate another person it's easy to understand why he hates angel. Like when parents are racist usually the daughter or son is racist aswell. So holt raising him to hate angel throughout all those years it's easy to see him hate angel. Plus gotta think about how angel couldn't even protect his own son would fuck with his mind too. Far from emo though, mother fucker could fight for sure plus he hit what angel couldn't 

Also supernatural is a great show. Not my fault you didn't watch enough to get the plot and backstory. Ghostwshiper, medium both suck in story but if you think that's a superior plot go for it!



Narcissus said:


> The fact that Dawn worked well with Buffy was the redeeming factor to me, what made her far more bearable than Conor and Riley.
> 
> And Dark Willow was awesome. Turning Willow into a villain was a good move, and her ending scene with Xander was so well done. See, THAT is how you make the audience care about the characters on a TV show.
> 
> As for Buffy/Spike, well they did mess him up quite a bit, especially with the whole chip deal, but they fixed the issue at the end by having him epically destroy Sunnydale to save the world, then putting him on Angel.


No it wasn't a good move, dark willow was one of the worst plots, was silly and overdone acting in the final scene that made me LOL throughout. God i hated season 6 now thinking back, season 5 finale >>>> Season 6 by far.


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## Banhammer (Dec 8, 2009)

Dark Willow was a great moove. It explored Willow's self destructive streak, the dip of darknes within people, the limits any hero will go for those they love, recklessness of love, family, and established her power house-ness, and the pointlessness of life.
What you called overdone, I call heart crushing


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## crazymtf (Dec 8, 2009)

Using magic to cover the drug issue was silly. The outcome was a terrible fight inwhich buffy did basically shit to super saiyan willow. It came down to the comic relief of the show to stop the big baddie and the ending was so lame. Maybe if I didn't watch all the seasons in a row I'd like it more but came off weak. 

Was far more touched or heartbroken when angel lost conner or when sam dies, those to me are heartbroken scenes, not druggie willow.


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## Narcissus (Dec 8, 2009)

crazymtf said:


> plus he hit what angel couldn't



Because of the smily I'm going to assume this part was a joke, because if it isn't. then it would be the worst logic to defend Conor I've ever seen.

And being able to fight doesn't make a character good either.




> No it wasn't a good move, dark willow was one of the worst plots, was silly and overdone acting in the final scene that made me LOL throughout. God i hated season 6 now thinking back, season 5 finale >>>> Season 6 by far.



Yeah no. 

Dark Willow tested the mental and emotional strength of every character. Watching someone as innocent as Willow spiral into a path of evil and black magic was truly intense and interesting. And the ending scene between her and Xander was great, because nothing else could stop her at that point.

Season 6 was a time where the character went through the struggles of life and had to grow from it, especially Buffy and Willow. And season 6 had the musical episode.

But overall though, I do agree that season 5 finale was better than season 6.


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## tsunamileif (Dec 8, 2009)

buffy was pretty good at first and so was supernatural.i think later they both became too soap opera(ish).


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## Ennoea (Dec 8, 2009)

> Season 6 was a time where the character went through the struggles of life and had to grow from it, especially Buffy and Willow. And season 6 had the musical episode.



This. 

Ofcourse Season 6 finale wasn't as good as Season 5, it was hard to top but still pretty good and most importantly interesting, atleast to me.


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## crazymtf (Dec 8, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Because of the smily I'm going to assume this part was a joke, because if it isn't. then it would be the worst logic to defend Conor I've ever seen.
> 
> And being able to fight doesn't make a character good either.
> 
> ...


Yes it was a joke. Conner was a good plot element, he made angel a even more interesting character if anything. Plus I didn't find him that annoying, that as much as dawn anwyay. 

Dark Willow was boring, but if you found it interesting more power to ya. People say season 5 sucked, but I found it interesting so fuck them


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## Ennoea (Dec 8, 2009)

> People say season 5 sucked, but I found it interesting so fuck them



Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Banhammer (Dec 8, 2009)

crazymtf said:


> Using magic to cover the drug issue was silly. The outcome was a terrible fight inwhich buffy did basically shit to super saiyan willow. It came down to the comic relief of the show to stop the big baddie and the ending was so lame. Maybe if I didn't watch all the seasons in a row I'd like it more but came off weak.
> 
> Was far more touched or heartbroken when angel lost conner or when sam dies, those to me are heartbroken scenes, not druggie willow.



yeah, Whedon Deaths are usually the emotional equivalent of that japonese guy that crushes his card in front of that one girl. When it cames to killing off characters, he pretty much wrote the book


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## Ennoea (Dec 8, 2009)

Buffy's mom's death was one of the most fucked up deaths for me.


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## Narcissus (Dec 8, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> This.
> 
> Ofcourse Season 6 finale wasn't as good as Season 5, it was hard to top but still pretty good and most importantly interesting, atleast to me.



Don't worry, you're not the only one who enjoyed season 6. There is a reason the Buffyverse had such an impact on pop culture.



crazymtf said:


> Yes it was a joke. Conner was a good plot element, he made angel a even more interesting character if anything. Plus I didn't find him that annoying, that as much as dawn anwyay.



Ah, okay then, since Conor "hitting" Cordy was really just part of him getting manipulated.

Both Dawn and Conor were annoying, though they did have some good effects on the title characters of their series. The difference was that I could stand Dawn, but every time I saw Conor I wanted to shove a stick a dynamite down his throat.

Riley was still worse than both of them.



> Dark Willow was boring, but if you found it interesting more power to ya. People say season 5 sucked, but I found it interesting so fuck them



Well I thought the idea of having innocent Willow go bad was fun. They'd already touched on the idea before with Vampire Willow, but here she really got to shine.

And I don't know who said season 5 sucked, but they clearly had not taste. 



Banhammer said:


> yeah, Whedon Deaths are usually the emotional equivalent of that japonese guy that crushes his card in front of that one girl. When it cames to killing off characters, he pretty much wrote the book



"I'm a leaf on the wind."



Ennoea said:


> Buffy's mom's death was one of the most fucked up deaths for me.



Depends. If she had to die, I found it better she had a natural death rather than being killed by something supernatural. But the event itself was still sad.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2009)

I dislike Wash's death in Serenity, it felt a little...rushed? It was sad though cause I liked him. Why couldn't the doctor die?


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## Banhammer (Dec 8, 2009)

He killed someone. So the audience would know anything could happen. The doctor's plot just wasn't done yet.

Probably the only thing that saved his ass was the need fo River Tam to have a trigger


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 8, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> He killed someone. So the audience would know anything could happen. The doctor's plot just wasn't done yet.
> 
> Probably the only thing that saved his ass was the need fo River Tam to have a trigger



He killed the safest character he could, the most replaceable person. If he had killed Zoe or Kaylee it would have gotten real. 

Joss has the "anyone can die rule" but just like on most shows like that its always the person of least need unless they can come back.


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