# Jinbei(One Piece) vs Diane(NNT)



## Dreams of Tommorow (Dec 31, 2018)

scenario 2: battle starts on an small island surrounded by an ocean


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## Mythoclast (Dec 31, 2018)

He's city level,right?


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## El Hermano (Dec 31, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> He's city level,right?


city level+


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## Kingdom Come (Dec 31, 2018)

What the

Pretty sure Diane wins this


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 31, 2018)

>stops an attack from Big Mom
>city+ 

Yea no


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## Mythoclast (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >stops an attack from Big Mom
> >city+
> 
> Yea no


Sooo,small continent level Jimbe??


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 31, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> Sooo,small continent level Jimbe??


hes island level


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## Mythoclast (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> hes island level


Big Mom is only island level?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 31, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> Big Mom is only island level?


No? But Jinbe is at least first mate level for that feat


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## Dr. White (Dec 31, 2018)

Winbei is solid island level. Diane hasn’t really shown too much and should be around dolor level. Should be a good fight tbh, Winbei probably edge her especially given he gets an ocean to work with.


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## xenos5 (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> No? But Jinbe is at least first mate level for that feat





OneSimpleAnime said:


> hes island level





OneSimpleAnime said:


> >stops an attack from Big Mom
> >city+
> 
> Yea no



Oh, cmon. Starving Big Mom was a joke with all the PIS surrounding her. Guard Point Chopper didn’t die when hit by her, and Brook could slice through Zeus (one of BM’s most powerful homies that uses a big portion of her soul) when she was in that state. Not to mention Jinbei’s attack moved her but did no damage to her anyways.

Jinbei also completely failed to tag Katakuri (something a First Mate level character would be able to do since they’re on the same level) when Katakuri wasn’t even trying to fight him and just chasing after Luffy to try to stop him from breaking mother caramel’s photo.


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## Mythoclast (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> No? But Jinbe is at least first mate level for that feat


Why is he island level if the attack he took from Big Mom isn't island level then?


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## Blαck (Dec 31, 2018)

Mythoclast said:


> Why is he island level if the attack he took from Big Mom isn't island level then?


Powerscaling and whatnot, besides base Big Mom could block g4 Luffy so I doubt battle-mode Big Mom is any weaker, unless it was noted anywhere on panel


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## xenos5 (Dec 31, 2018)

Blαck said:


> Powerscaling and whatnot, besides base Big Mom could block g4 Luffy so I doubt battle-mode Big Mom is any weaker, unless it was noted anywhere on panel



Battle-mode? I don't think that's what i'd call the state Big Mom was in. She was hunger crazed, rapidly losing weight decreasing her size, and starving to the point she could die soon from hunger  .

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## El Hermano (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >stops an attack from Big Mom
> >city+
> 
> Yea no


He did fend her off when she was severely weakened and she didn't even use Haki as far as I recall while he had to.

EDIT: Lol and in the scan xeno posted apparently she pretty much sent him flying. I didn't remember that part for some reason. You can pretty much see the blood, too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blαck (Dec 31, 2018)

xenos5 said:


> Battle-mode? I don't think that's what i'd call the state Big Mom was in. She was hunger crazed, rapidly losing weight decreasing her size, and starving to the point she could die soon from hunger  .



Well yeah it doesn;t have a name so battle-mode works, anyway yes like you said crazed hunger so she was far less likely to hold back and as your image paints her strength clearly didn't dwindle all that much.


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## Juan (Dec 31, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Jinbe





OneSimpleAnime said:


> first mate level


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## El Hermano (Dec 31, 2018)

Blαck said:


> Well yeah it doesn;t have a name so battle-mode works, anyway yes like you said crazed hunger so she was far less likely to hold back and as your image paints her strength clearly didn't dwindle all that much.


How did you conclude her strength didn't dwindle all that much? She was starving and pushed back by Chopper.


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## Blαck (Dec 31, 2018)

Skinny Phallus said:


> How did you conclude her strength didn't dwindle all that much? She was starving and pushed back by Chopper.



The chopper feat was just some pis type shit, as for the other thing, a mix of Yonko shenanigans really, I mean she clearly _transformed _as a visual cue that she's serious so it's weird to say she's that much weaker. While I don't believe she was at 100% (hence why no one is saying jimbei is country level for moving her) but island level is reasonable.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

Blαck said:


> Well yeah it doesn;t have a name so battle-mode works, anyway yes like you said crazed hunger so she was far less likely to hold back and as your image paints her strength clearly didn't dwindle all that much.



She lost so much weight she was able to fit on the ship when iirc normally she'd be bigger than the entire ship. Her having enough strength to send Jinbe flying doesn't mean much (characters weaker than G4 Luffy like Doflamingo could send Zoro or Sanji flying). Portrayal-wise I would place Jinbe around current Zoro and current Sanji's level.

Big Mom before she lost a ton of weight (but was still hunger crazed) did shit like this  (the mere wind emanating from a missed shockwave of her sword swing nearly blowing the strawhats away). Before she lost a ton of weight she could easily tank being hit by Zeus's lightning but after losing all that weight you could see superficial scratches on her when she was hit by Zeus's lightning again 



Blαck said:


> The chopper feat was just some pis type shit, as for the other thing, a mix of Yonko shenanigans really, I mean she clearly _transformed _as a visual cue that she's serious so it's weird to say she's that much weaker. While I don't believe she was at 100% (hence why no one is saying jimbei is country level for moving her) but island level is reasonable.



Why is it PIS for Chopper and not for Jinbe?

And she didn't transform, she just had Prometheus in her hair.

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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Jinbei also completely failed to tag Katakuri (something a First Mate level character would be able to do since they’re on the same level) when Katakuri wasn’t even trying to fight him and just chasing after Luffy to try to stop him from breaking mother caramel’s photo.


Jinbei intercepted a magma fist from Akainu. He's got some of the best high tier feats in the entire series.

Even Sanji dodged a jellybean from Katakuri


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

Y'all talking about some island level Jinbei tho


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## Mythoclast (Jan 1, 2019)

If Chopper and Jimbe(who was originally city level)could do shit like that,then I'm inclined to believe that she got nerfed way down to their level.
Island level seems like an arbitrary label..


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> If Chopper and Jimbe(who was originally city level)could do shit like that,then I'm inclined to believe that she got nerfed way down to their level.
> Island level seems like an arbitrary label..


Chopper's feat is clear PIS. Dude isn't even on par with someone like Pica. Firstmate level characters are gatekeeper top tiers. They're too strong to be just only high tier but not quite admiral/yonkou tier. 

Island level comes from Don Chinjao in his prime. He split a continent. Garp showed us that he clearly isn't admiral/yonkou tier when he one-shotted him. 

Chinjao's feat is well above what most high tiers have shown but the best top tiers i.e admirals/yonkou have continent level feats (from WB)


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

We've seen yonkou commanders like Marco/Jozu/Vista fight admiral/yonkou level characters but they couldn't really put them down, but they'd whoop anyone that's not another yonkou commander level character.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

Imagine said:


> Jinbei intercepted a magma fist from Akainu. He's got some of the best high tier feats in the entire series.





Not fast enough to chase after Katakuri after failing to land a blow, though 


Imagine said:


> Even Sanji dodged a jellybean from Katakuri



Nice joke. You're essentially saying "even Sanji dodged an attack mostly used to kill fodders".


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Not fast enough to chase after Katakuri after failing to land a blow, though


Ok? Katakuri's also dodged attacks from Luffy and vice versa. It's not like Jinbei got blitzed or anything.




> Nice joke. You're essentially saying "even Sanji dodged an attack mostly used to kill fodders".


That's not a joke. Sanji is MHS+. Katakuri, even while causal is MHS+. He aimed to kill Sanji with that shit.


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

In the very panel you posted, you can see Pedro intercepting the attack from Katakuri. Fucking Pedro.

Said attack was meant for Luffy.


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## Zhen Chan (Jan 1, 2019)

Lmao trying to scale jinbei to dying big mom

Diane bodies him


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

He wouldn't be getting scale from Big Mom because the island level feat didn't come from her. I ain't trying to talk about about atm tho.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

Imagine said:


> Ok? Katakuri's also dodged attacks from Luffy and vice versa. It's not like Jinbei got blitzed or anything.



I didn't say Jinbei got blitzed. I'm simply saying Jinbei having "first-mate level speed" doesn't seem to be possible when...

Even Luffy couldn't land a single attack on Katakuri until 1. his opponent's future sight was briefly disabled 2. after he got a massive CoO boost 3. when he applied that massive CoO boost to his speed-based G4 mode where attacks come from weird angles and get increasingly faster after being fired off.

Even more then that I would say Katakuri set the bar for "first-mate level speed" pretty damn high when he adapted to even the G4 Mode meant to counter him (Snakeman) and weaved through a jet culverin gatling (Black Mamba). I can't envision Jinbe performing the same feat or anything close to it.

To me him intercepting Akainu is really no different than Piccolo intercepting Nappa's blast that was meant for Gohan, Jinbe is obviously slower than Akainu just as Piccolo is slower than Nappa, but the life of an important character (the MC in Jinbei's case) was on the line so someone had to protect them in a dramatic fashion for the sake of the plot.

In the post you originally quoted I was simply making a point that Jinbe has failed to show "first-mate level speed" when directly facing a first mate. Katakuri doesn't need to completely blitz Jinbe to clearly be in a higher speed tier from his showings.



Imagine said:


> In the very panel you posted, you can see Pedro intercepting the attack from Katakuri. Fucking Pedro.
> 
> Said attack was meant for Luffy.



Judging from Luffy's reaction he knew he was going to be hit by it before Pedro stepped in, so does that make Luffy slower than Pedro?

You obviously already know that's just a low end/PIS so I don't see why you even brought it up.



Imagine said:


> *That's not a joke.* Sanji is MHS+. Katakuri, even while casual is MHS+. He aimed to kill Sanji with that shit.



Ok...? The "even Sanji" phrasing made it sound like you think it's somehow a demerit against Katakuri rather than just a CoO bit feat for Sanji though.


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> I didn't say Jinbei got blitzed. I'm simply saying Jinbei having "first-mate level speed" doesn't seem to be possible when...
> 
> Even Luffy couldn't land a single attack on Katakuri until 1. his opponent's future sight was briefly disabled 2. after he got a massive CoO boost 3. when he applied that massive CoO boost to his speed-based G4 mode where attacks come from weird angles and get increasingly faster after being fired off.
> 
> ...


This doesn't need to be this long. Jinbei attempted to attack Katakuri, Katakuri dodged. You made out to be the end of Jinbei's career.

Best believe that if they fought Jinbei would land an attack. Would he lose? Very likely, but Katakuri isn't going untouched.

Jinbei's portrayal is far too consistent.




> Judging from Luffy's reaction he knew he was going to be hit by it before Pedro stepped in, so does that make Luffy slower than Pedro?
> 
> You obviously already know that's just a low end/PIS so I don't see why you even brought it up.


It wasn't. We know Katakuri wasn't bloodlusted but as I've said before Katakuri, even while causal is fast as fuck. If Pedro, a mid end high tier can do that then we know Jinbei could as well especially considering when you look at all of his feats.





> Ok...? The "even Sanji" phrasing made it sound like you think it's somehow a demerit against Katakuri rather than just a CoO bit feat for Sanji though.


Wrong. Its not to bring Katakuri down but to lift Sanji up. He is a high tier that has already reacted to attacks from Doflamingo and semi-blitzed Vergo. If he can dodge an attack from a FM level fighter, even while, casual then Jinbei is fine (who has better feats).


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## Imagine (Jan 1, 2019)

Like, I'd understand if we were talking about just Chopper, cuz that's bullshit, but Jinbei's had a run-in with an admiral and yonkou. He came out fine.

He's intercepted an attack from G2 Luffy postskip. You have one negative feat compared to a laundry list of other positive ones so the DB comparison absolutely does not work.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

Imagine said:


> This doesn't need to be this long. Jinbei attempted to attack Katakuri, Katakuri dodged. You made out to be the end of Jinbei's career.
> 
> Best believe that if they fought Jinbei would land an attack. Would he lose? Very likely, but Katakuri isn't going untouched.
> 
> Jinbei's portrayal is far too consistent.



With FS on Katakuri showed he could outlast *G4 Boundman Luffy* and go untouched. He even formed holes in his body fast enough to go untouched by a Kong Gun Gatling (Kong Organ), rather than needing to move his body to evade it.

Do you believe Jinbe can perform an attack faster or harder to evade than Kong Organ? I don't. I have yet to see any solid indication Jinbe can reproduce that level of speed with his own attacks, let alone exceed it.



Imagine said:


> It wasn't. We know Katakuri wasn't bloodlusted but as I've said before Katakuri, even while causal is fast as fuck. If Pedro, a mid end high tier can do that then we know Jinbei could as well especially considering when you look at all of his feats.



Luffy couldn't tag Katakuri throughout their entire fight except under the 3 circumstances I listed in my other post. And I don't see how Jinbe can replicate any of those 3.

Pedro is irrelevant.



Imagine said:


> Wrong. Its not to bring Katakuri down but to lift Sanji up. He is a high tier that has already reacted to attacks from Doflamingo and semi-blitzed Vergo. If he can dodge an attack from a FM level fighter, even while, casual then Jinbei is fine (who has better feats).



Doflamingo was blitzed by Boundman. The same Boundman couldn't land any hits on Katakuri with a Kong Gun Gatling.

Scaling to or above Sanji would not give Jinbe the level of speed necessary to tag someone who couldn't be hit by Kong Organ.



Imagine said:


> Like, I'd understand if we were talking about just Chopper, cuz that's bullshit, but Jinbei's had a run-in with an admiral and yonkou. He came out fine.
> 
> *He's intercepted an attack from G2 Luffy postskip.* You have one negative feat compared to a laundry list of other positive ones so the DB comparison absolutely does not work.



How is the bold supposed to be impressive at all here?

If Luffy had not gotten a huge CoO boost, he would never be able to hit Katakuri with or without G2.

The Yonkou you're talking about was massively weakened and was performing nowhere near as good as normal against everybody (Let's ignore Chopper since it's obvious he shouldn't have survived. Brook could only get a small scrape on one of Big Mom's 3 main homies normally, yet he could somehow slice Zeus in half when Big Mom was in her hunger crazed and starving state indicating BM's soul weakened along with her body).

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## Blαck (Jan 1, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> *The Yonkou you're talking about was massively weakened and was performing nowhere near as good as normal against everybody* (Let's ignore Chopper since it's obvious he shouldn't have survived. Brook could only get a small scrape on one of Big Mom's 3 main homies normally, yet he could somehow slice Zeus in half when Big Mom was in her hunger crazed and starving state indicating BM's soul weakened along with her body).



Which again, is why we're only scaling him to Island level, portrayal and feats support this.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

Blαck said:


> Which again, is why we're only scaling him to Island level, portrayal and feats support this.



And I don't think he should get island level, either.

Despite being weakened she was undamaged by Jinbe, one of his best attacks could only push her away briefly. There's no way of telling the level of DC you need to just push starving Big Mom and do no damage.

Marco knocked away a Kizaru who wasn't weakened in any way, yet we don't rate Marco as admiral level as he still didn't do any actual damage.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

If Jinbei scales to the 84 GT he should take it.


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## Mythoclast (Jan 1, 2019)

Imagine said:


> Chopper's feat is clear PIS. Dude isn't even on par with someone like Pica. Firstmate level characters are gatekeeper top tiers. They're too strong to be just only high tier but not quite admiral/yonkou tier.
> 
> Island level comes from Don Chinjao in his prime. He split a continent. Garp showed us that he clearly isn't admiral/yonkou tier when he one-shotted him.
> 
> Chinjao's feat is well above what most high tiers have shown but the best top tiers i.e admirals/yonkou have continent level feats (from WB)


I know most of this.
What I don't understand why we're assuming Meme went from small-continent level to island level specifically.If a known city level character like Jimbe can fuck with her,wouldn't that just mean she got nerfed all the way down to his level?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 1, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> I know most of this.
> What I don't understand why we're assuming Meme went from small-continent level to island level specifically.If a known city level character like Jimbe can fuck with her,wouldn't that just mean she got nerfed all the way down to his level?


So she became millions of times weaker?


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So she became millions of times weaker?


When she can become hundreds of thousand times weaker arguing for one level more is not too far fetched 

Either Jinbei suddenly gets continental or the entire thing gets dismissed completely or she was nerfed to such an exten that a Jinbei with his scaling could match her


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## Mythoclast (Jan 1, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So she became millions of times weaker?


Yes?It has a basis.A known city level character did that well against her.

The island level assumption is arbitrary.And getting nerfed from small-continent to island level is also magnitudes apart.Lesser so than small continent to city level,but still magnitudes...


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 1, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> Yes?It has a basis.A known city level character did that well against her.
> 
> The island level assumption is arbitrary.And getting nerfed from small-continent to island level is also magnitudes apart.Lesser so than small continent to city level,but still magnitudes...


Her crew was still terrified of her, some of whom you could argue scale to Chinjao’s feat.


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## xenos5 (Jan 1, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Her crew was still terrified of her, *some of whom you could argue scale to Chinjao’s feat.*



Who other than the sweet commanders? 

I don’t think any of the sweet commanders were in the immediate vicinity reacting to her when she lost a ton of weight. Just Perospero and Daifuku.


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

What I don't get over here is how is city level jinbei not enough for diane? Diane is city level herself and so is jinbei(but to a higher base degree). And he is faster the last I checked..Jinbei wins regardless of whether he is island level or not.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> What I don't get over here is how is city level jinbei not enough for diane? Diane is city level herself and so is jinbei(but to a higher base degree). And he is faster the last I checked..Jinbei wins regardless of whether he is island level or not.



Diane is Island level and faster


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> Diane is Island level and faster


Which feat? I remember the ground gladius one calced at city level. And isn't it mach 1800+ NNT and mach 1850+ OP or whatever ?Or was it mach 3k for NNT?


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Which feat? I remember the ground gladius one calced at city level. And isn't it mach 1800+ NNT and mach 1850+ OP or whatever ?Or was it mach 3k for NNT?



It was Mach 3.6K. So pretty much the same ballpark but technicaly still an edge for Diane. 

Current Diane is at least 24Gigatons. She took hits from Escanor and Chandler for example. Also was compared to be of the same strenght as Dolor, who performed the feat we calced to be 24GT in the first place (Both Escanor and Chandler are significantly stronger than Dolor too).

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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> It was Mach 3.6K. So pretty much the same ballpark but technicaly still an edge for Diane.
> 
> Current Diane is at least 24Gigatons. She took hits from Escanor and Chandler for example. Also was compared to be of the same strenght as Dolor, who performed the feat we calced to be 24GT in the first place (Both Escanor and Chandler are significantly stronger than Dolor too).


Ah,okay..so mach 3600 for NNT.

Is this accepted for diane? Like she is stronger than before and is compared to dolor,but she has not performed feats of that caliber as far as I know.Even king had to fully awaken his true self and bloom in order to be >> gloxinia. Shouldn't we wait for feats for confirming diane at that level since king did state that he expected them to eventually get stronger than the 2 former kings(eventually being the key). Durability wise scaling should be okay for diane to island level..but jinbei would eventually wear her down since he is easily just as much a tank as diane having survived akainu and BM on top of having a massive durability when fighting his equal ace and his attacks would get her since he is unknown city level+.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Ah,okay..so mach 3600 for NNT.
> 
> Is this accepted for diane? Like she is stronger than before and is compared to dolor,but she has not performed feats of that caliber as far as I know.Even king had to fully awaken his true self and bloom in order to be >> gloxinia. Shouldn't we wait for feats for confirming diane at that level since king did state that he expected them to eventually get stronger than the 2 former kings(eventually being the key). Durability wise scaling should be okay for diane to island level..but jinbei would eventually wear her down since he is easily just as much a tank as diane having survived akainu and BM on top of having a massive durability when fighting his equal ace and his attacks would get her since he is unknown city level+.



The potential of them becoming as powerful as the old fairy and giant king was set up in chapter 200 something when they travelled through the past. King also got an additional hype of becoming stronger than Gloxinia or any fairy.

King and Diane then have actively been compared to Dolor and Gloxinia during the fight with Merascylla. As for Diane it was explicitly about the attack power of her hits too. King one-upped that comparison with his recent powerup, living up to the "strongest fairy ever" hype.


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> The potential of them becoming as powerful as the old fairy and giant king was set up in chapter 200 something when they travelled through the past. King also got an additional hype of becoming stronger than Gloxinia or any fairy.
> 
> King and Diane then have actively been compared to Dolor and Gloxinia during the fight with Merascylla. As for Diane it was explicitly about the attack power of her hits too. King one-upped that comparison with his recent powerup, living up to the "strongest fairy ever" hype.


Yes,but their power levels in the current forms(before kings transformation) were still significantly less than the demon duo(I do not remember if the numbers are actual or from a databook,but dolor was 58k and gloxinia was 50k while king after that power up from the past was 41.6k whereas diane with her dolor dance was only 15k). You would need to provide evidence to show that they are definitely comparable to them to say the 24GT applies to diane since even a 1k difference in power cannot be accurately measured in power output.

What we know is king only surpassed gloxinia after his transformation and not before. Same should be the case with diane until she shows some feats > dolor's or surpassing his power level. Till then, she should be stuck at city level+ unknown as well with a higher end of 24GT whereas jinbei would have a ceiling of 84GT

Edit keep in mind that the feat from dolor was with his demon commandment. So even saying that diane is comparable to the giant king doesn't mean she is comparable to the feat performed by dolor wih his commandment


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## Keishin (Jan 1, 2019)

Heavy Metal tanked 4TC Mael light and darkness fused beams that one shot the archangels


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Yes,but their power levels in the current forms(before kings transformation) were still significantly less than the demon duo(I do not remember if the numbers are actual or from a databook,but dolor was 58k and gloxinia was 50k while king after that power up from the past was 41.6k whereas diane with her dolor dance was only 15k). You would need to provide evidence to show that they are definitely comparable to them to say the 24GT applies to diane since even a 1k difference in power cannot be accurately measured in power output.
> 
> What we know is king only surpassed gloxinia after his transformation and not before. Same should be the case with diane until she shows some feats > dolor's or surpassing his power level. Till then, she should be stuck at city level+ unknown as well with a higher end of 24GT whereas jinbei would have a ceiling of 84GT
> 
> Edit keep in mind that the feat from dolor was with his demon commandment. So even saying that diane is comparable to the giant king doesn't mean she is comparable to the feat performed by dolor wih his commandment



Diane was not 15K, it was 48K


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

Keishin said:


> Heavy Metal tanked 4TC Mael light and darkness fused beams that one shot the archangels


That gives her island level durability,not DC. her DC is still city level of inferior magnitude to jinbei's. And jinbei has tanked a lot worse coming from BM and akainu.



RavenSupreme said:


> Diane was not 15K, it was 48K


Might be,I remember gowther's reading of her. It is still weaker then dolor with the commandments power and you cannot scale her to it unless there are feats of her.


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Yes,but their power levels in the current forms(before kings transformation) were still significantly less than the demon duo(I do not remember if the numbers are actual or from a databook,but dolor was 58k and gloxinia was 50k while king after that power up from the past was 41.6k whereas diane with her dolor dance was only 15k). You would need to provide evidence to show that they are definitely comparable to them to say the 24GT applies to diane since even a 1k difference in power cannot be accurately measured in power output.
> 
> What we know is king only surpassed gloxinia after his transformation and not before. Same should be the case with diane until she shows some feats > dolor's or surpassing his power level. Till then, she should be stuck at city level+ unknown as well with a higher end of 24GT whereas jinbei would have a ceiling of 84GT
> 
> Edit keep in mind that the feat from dolor was with his demon commandment. So even saying that diane is comparable to the giant king doesn't mean she is comparable to the feat performed by dolor wih his commandment


No, she was 48k which is well in range for the island scaling. It was made very clear that she was very close to Dolor in power the same as King closing the gap to Gloxinia before surpassing him with true fairy form.

Your last point is also moot as the commandment did nothing for him and we know his magic power was only 16k, which Diane herself can eclipse and thus gets scaled based on numbers as well as portrayal.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> That gives her island level durability,not DC. her DC is still city level of inferior magnitude to jinbei's. And jinbei has tanked a lot worse coming from BM and akainu.
> 
> 
> Might be,I remember gowther's reading of her. It is still weaker then dolor with the commandments power and you cannot scale her to it unless there are feats of her.


She literally said she can keep increasing it with her dances. We dont know her exact upper limit


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

Dr. White said:


> No, she was 48k which is well in range for the island scaling. It was made very clear that she was very close to Dolor in power the same as King closing the gap to Gloxinia before surpassing him with true fairy form.
> 
> Your last point is also moot as the commandment did nothing for him and we know his magic power was only 16k, which Diane herself can eclipse and thus gets scaled based on numbers as well as portrayal.


Which is still < dolor's power level and no it isn't in "range" for anything unless someone determined that x power level equates to island level. We only know dolor's 58k with the commandment is 24GT. her coming close to dolor in power level and dolor in commandment form having an island level calc are 2 different things. is she close or has surpassed dolor? Probably. But the same is true for jinbe and island level for him(comparing to DCJ). But if you are not scaling one based off of reasoning he has not shown it, you are not scaling the other who lacks the same showings.

And how do you know that? The only time we are shown about commandments and power are they directly increase the power level.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> She literally said she can keep increasing it with her dances. We dont know her exact upper limit


NLF. You cannot pinpoint her exact power level increase.Nor can you say here dancing will make her equal to mael's 200k. She still remains a city level threat based on her showings.


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> That gives her island level durability,not DC. her DC is still city level of inferior magnitude to jinbei's. And jinbei has tanked a lot worse coming from BM and akainu.
> 
> 
> Might be,I remember gowther's reading of her. It is still weaker then dolor with the commandments power and you cannot scale her to it unless there are feats of her.



Sure we can scale her, especially when the Commandement she fights explicitly states her attacks are as powerful as Dolors, thats pretty clear cut. We have King at 41K also scaling to Dolor, despite him being even lower in overall PL than him.


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Which is still < dolor's power level and no it isn't in "range" for anything unless someone determined that x power level equates to island level.


Ok? lmao, so are others commandments and yet they all get scaled 

We do have that value lmao, I just gave it to you. It's 14k. Dolor's island level feat was with his magic which is muuuch weaker than his strength. Anyone with a value on par with that in a stat that adds to their DC gets scaled.

Diane's power level is 50k. She recently had a 2.5x gap between her strength and magic similar to Dolor. No matter how you slice it, she 100% gets the scaling lmao.



> We only know dolor's 58k with the commandment is 24GT.


A.) Idk why you are looking at things hollistically. This isn't a single Ki stat, the split is very important in this manga lol.

B.) 8k is a marginal difference for our purposes here. You are essentially skipping the whole portrayal of Diane's test and subsequent strength gain putting her on par with her predecessor, who then passed the torch to her when chandlier killed them, ignoring her blatant feats of being able to fight vs chandlier and not get stomped like she did when she fought with some sins vs Galan, and just trying to downplay her based on logic that isn't well thought out. Why would she get scaled to City+ level people who have PL's in the single thousands, when she is well into the dozens?



> her coming close to dolor in power level and dolor in commandment form having an island level calc are 2 different things. is she close or has surpassed dolor? Probably. But the same is true for jinbe and island level for him(comparing to DCJ). But if you are not scaling one based off of reasoning he has not shown it, you are not scaling the other who lacks the same showings.


What? This makes no sense lmao. You straight up admit she is on par or surpassed him, so why wouldn't she get the scaling lmao? Portrayal is a thing and she has some feats vs high level fighters.

It's not at all the same thing ither lol. The din chinjaoscaling is extremely far off compared to two characters who literally fit the same niche (they are both prime giants) and are being set up in a student-mentor like fashion creating a direct parallel between them. What's more is that NnT has stats. Both of those things make the direct comaprison and subsequent scaling much more valid.

With DCJ you are scaling an unknown quantity. All we know is that Garp could one shot him with some effort (he was training by punching mountains and there was a visible albeit short struggle between the powers). It was more like an Iai battle where you can have two swordsman of relatively similar level have a battle decided in one hit. You are then trying to stretch that over multiple itneractions between various characters and concepts (such as "x is M3 level!" or "X is first mate level") of power. Which of course is what powerscaling is, but in this case it's much more murky than the diane and dolor situation.



> And how do you know that? The only time we are shown about commandments and power are they directly increase the power level.


He used a giant attack to accomplish his stat which was also much weaker than his strength. Demons tend to be physically strong so even assuming the 10k is apart of his stat we wouldn't know how to split it, if anything it would be his physical power and maybe a bit of magic, which still puts him in around the same ballpark (assuming a 3,300 drop between all stats), and his strength level still well > 16k which is the potency of his magic level which completed the feat.

And what's hilarious is, even if you think that Dolor had the power of the commandment boosting his feat, that means that you accept Diane without any similar buff is stronger than Dolor himself. -10k from 54k puts him at 44k which is 6k less than current Diane, meaning she by herself literally fills 6/10 of how much the commandment would strengthen him.


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## Kaaant (Jan 1, 2019)

I thought dianne already surpassed dolor


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> Sure we can scale her, especially when the Commandement she fights explicitly states her attacks are as powerful as Dolors, thats pretty clear cut. We have King at 41K also scaling to Dolor, despite him being even lower in overall PL than him.


But we are the ones who are scaling them off(king and diane), the manga clearly states that they are some ways weaker with the power levels.



Dr. White said:


> Ok? lmao, so are others commandments and yet they all get scaled
> 
> We do have that value lmao, I just gave it to you. It's 14k. Dolor's island level feat was with his magic which is muuuch weaker than his strength. Anyone with a value on par with that in a stat that adds to their DC gets scaled.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I am not going to start long walls of text between something that is clear in the manga. I read nnt casually so I may be off marks on some things,but do tell-
1) where do you get diane's magic power quota from?
2) How do you decide that only the magic power is used in the feat? Like I get it that it is not 'normal' strength per say, but without that physical feat,how can you be confident that someone else can do the same thing?

8k isn't marginal at all. there is no 1 power level equates to 100TNt or something defined for you to determine that diane is close or stronger to dolor. If there is,do paste that here.

I agree that diane should "logically" scale to dolor. That doesn't mean in this stupid forum that is accepted and she "actually" should based on some of the reasonings . There are way too many biased opinions here which downplay 1 very similar feat compared to another based on whose fanboys are in larger number. Jinbei to DCJ isn't murky at all. DC comments that Don sai should now have the "power" to open the treasure cave. But nope, this forum requires proof over there when it is an exact copy of a student-master relationship as dolor and diane. And literally everyone from the m3 and above is stronger than fucking Don Sai.


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## Dr. White (Jan 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> 1) where do you get diane's magic power quota from?


Her first power levels in the series were 3250 at start which was 900 magic and 1870 strength. After her trial her  levels were 8,800, and then after the first dance 15, 100 while human sized. The ratio of strength to magic for the 8k level was 5.2k to 2k. We never get the spread for her 15k human sized, or 50k giant sized levels after Dolor's dance. But it should stay roughly 2-3x strength to magic.



> 2) How do you decide that only the magic power is used in the feat? Like I get it that it is not 'normal' strength per say, but without that physical feat,how can you be confident that someone else can do the same thing?


What do you mean? Dolor created the meteors with Earth magic, and used his earth telekinesis to slam them down as hard as a meteor. It was all magic and had nothing to do with his strength.

32k Meliodas w/ demon mark amp was completely fine in taking that. People that can dish out similar to Dolor or tank that level of firepower, let alone Dolor using his weaker category of fighting, get scaled. It's that simple.



> 8k isn't marginal at all. there is no 1 power level equates to 100TNt or something defined for you to determine that diane is close or stronger to dolor. If there is,do paste that here.


Idk what any of this means. Dolor's feat is fan calced. By me. The strength of his Earth magic was capable of creating a kinetic energy shockwave that had effects felt hundreds of miles away. Anyone with energy on par with that, or 32k Meliodas get scaled to the feat. It's kids play by this point in NnT, and Diane is clearly at least at the level of dolor at this point in time.

The next scaling is 400Mt from Gilthunder in the very early chapters. To claim it is more appopriate to scale her to that, when the difference in power is literally dozens of times over, is nonsensical. Diane is 50k. Gil was <2000 at that point. A 25x power difference.
8 is literally only 1/6 of her total power level, let alone a multiplication of.



> *I agree that diane should "logically" scale to dolor*. That doesn't mean in this stupid forum* that is accepted and she "actually" should based on some of the reasonings* .








> There are way too many biased opinions here which downplay 1 very similar feat compared to another based on whose fanboys are in larger number.


so in short you are from another forum and upset about people not accepting Island level Jinbei scaling, and as some sort of point are trying to argue against obvious scaling in another series as...revenge?




> Jinbei to DCJ isn't murky at all.


I said it was murkier than the clear line of scaling from diane to Dolor. And yes there are arguments against it which we will explore.



> DC comments that Don sai should now have the "power" to open the treasure cave.


Don sai was literally garbage dude. He and ideo were the ebst of the contestants outside of Sai and Luffy and they got eliminated in the legit crossfire of their battle. Don Sai only got an amp to his attack power, and used the move once to beat a severly tired and beat up Don Sai/Lao G. His feat was also calced at <5 Mt and stands as the scaling for mid high/low high tiers being small city in OP.

None of what he did justifies getting the scaling directly to the feat of his legendary grandpa in his prime. Until he replicates it with enough likeness it's a no go given his prior standing in verse. Like I said Don Sai was literally <<< Old Chinjao, let alone >= his prime self.

Do you think Don Sai could blow out Sanji's back with a kick and one shot him? Do you think he could break Zoro's shit in? I don't.



> But nope, this forum requires proof over there when it is an exact copy of a student-master relationship as dolor and diane. And literally everyone from the m3 and above is stronger than fucking Don Sai.


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## Gunstarvillain (Jan 1, 2019)

Ni66as want jinny in that weightclass bad huh


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## g4snake108 (Jan 1, 2019)

Sigh,exactly what I wanted to avoid in the first place-long walls of text.


Dr. White said:


> Her first power levels in the series were 3250 at start which was 900 magic and 1870 strength. After her trial her  levels were 8,800, and then after the first dance 15, 100 while human sized. The ratio of strength to magic for the 8k level was 5.2k to 2k. We never get the spread for her 15k human sized, or 50k giant sized levels after Dolor's dance. But it should stay roughly 2-3x strength to magic.


So, that is purely your assumption that her magic grew proportionally? what? Why am I supposed to take your word for it? Dolor dance increases the physical stat,not magical. For all we know, her magic strength remained 900. NLF.



> What do you mean? Dolor created the meteors with Earth magic, and used his earth telekinesis to slam them down as hard as a meteor. It was all magic and had nothing to do with his strength.
> 
> 32k Meliodas w/ demon mark amp was completely fine in taking that. People that can dish out similar to Dolor or tank that level of firepower, let alone Dolor using his weaker category of fighting, get scaled. It's that simple.


It isn't..Bringing down the meteors is done with a physical level of feat too-not only magical. You are assuming too many things in considering diane's magic numbers, the feats potency and its relationship to only magical power without any manga evidence to back it up concretely.


> Idk what any of this means. Dolor's feat is fan calced. By me. The strength of his Earth magic was capable of creating a kinetic energy shockwave that had effects felt hundreds of miles away. Anyone with energy on par with that, or 32k Meliodas get scaled to the feat. It's kids play by this point in NnT, and Diane is clearly at least at the level of dolor at this point in time.


And I am not doubting your calc-so what's the point of bringing this up? I am doubting your claims that it is only magical power based when the manga never states it as such.I am also doubting your ability to scale it t diane when diane is compared to Dolor as a giant king(and even gloxinia not being surpassed by king until his evolution),whereas you are comparing it with dolor+his commandments power as being equal to diane because she should be comparable. Nowhere has it been shown till now


> The next scaling is 400Mt from Gilthunder in the very early chapters. To claim it is more appopriate to scale her to that, when the difference in power is literally dozens of times over, is nonsensical. Diane is 50k. Gil was <2000 at that point. A 25x power difference.
> 8 is literally only 1/6 of her total power level, let alone a multiplication of.


So? She becomes city level++.Why are you acting like you are new here? Kaido literally blitzed g4 luffy who blitzed doffy who was calced mach 1850. I don't put relativistic speed on him because logically he should be 50-100x faster.



> so in short you are from another forum and upset about people not accepting Island level Jinbei scaling, and as some sort of point are trying to argue against obvious scaling in another series as...revenge?


Nope.Or yep, whatever you want to say to me being from another forum since loong back I did come here from another forum and then made a profile here to keep tabs on calcs. But from a third person point of view, I view some of the guys here equally as stupid as others on other forums who keep on thinking that they are the "better" ones while living in their own little bubble.

my point was, If I post in this forum, I am to follow this forums guidelines- and the fallacy of logical arguments here is even more than my previous one(because granted, it was an extremely small one). 2 latest example being 2 of my posts in the recent days one from bleach/OP and the other here.


> I said it was murkier than the clear line of scaling from diane to Dolor. And yes there are arguments against it which we will explore.
> 
> 
> Don sai was literally garbage dude. He and ideo were the ebst of the contestants outside of Sai and Luffy and they got eliminated in the legit crossfire of their battle. Don Sai only got an amp to his attack power, and used the move once to beat a severly tired and beat up Don Sai/Lao G. His feat was also calced at <5 Mt and stands as the scaling for mid high/low high tiers being small city in OP.


I don't know why you are comparing durability to his powered-up DC? Even diane literally powered up or king or anyone from 3k to 41k+.People here use kata as an example to say he is not island level because he is only a speed/COO beast here and so he is only city level+. He(Sai) can be a glass cannon and that still shouldn't matter when the person who used to perform the feat outright states that the other person has legit inherited the title.

And btw Sai isn't garbage per say. He leads the navy now because he has got the power . he is a part timer to the main story line, but then, so was DCJ..


> None of what he did justifies getting the scaling directly to the feat of his legendary grandpa in his prime. Until he replicates it with enough likeness it's a no go given his prior standing in verse. Like I said Don Sai was literally <<< Old Chinjao, let alone >= his prime self.


That is again a comparison of durabilities and not DC's. We are city level baseline in OP for so many characters after so many powerups that it is the same point you are trying to use in favor of diane and gil's 500MT.


> Do you think Don Sai could blow out Sanji's back with a kick and one shot him? Do you think he could break Zoro's shit in? I don't.


Neither do I..that's why I said everyone m3 and up scales to him easily.


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## Bernkastel (Jan 2, 2019)

Jinbeis only stat that should be island level is durability since he took attacks from Akainu and BM..


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## Amol (Jan 2, 2019)

What Bern said. 
Jinbe has exceptional durability. He stopped magmafist with bare hand. His hand should have evaporated. Like literally. 
But it didn't. 
It is a solid durability feat considering Akainu is one character who believes in there is no kill like overkill.


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

Amol said:


> What Bern said.
> Jinbe has exceptional durability. He stopped magmafist with bare hand. His hand should have evaporated. Like literally.
> But it didn't.
> It is a solid durability feat considering Akainu is one character who believes in there is no kill like overkill.



Akainu easily punched a hole right through him after that. Jinbe was oneshotted. I take more stock in that, then Jinbe intercepting an attack and surviving for the sake of the plot.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Akainu easily punched a hole right through him after that. Jinbe was oneshotted. I take more stock in that, then Jinbe intercepting an attack and surviving for the sake of the plot.


Jinbe survived that magma fist and kept moving after


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Jinbe survived that magma fist and kept moving after



Pain tolerance =/= durability. 

It tore through him like wet paper.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Pain tolerance =/= durability.
> 
> It tore through him like wet paper.


It did the same to near everyone else there too, Akainu shrugged off shit from Marco and Vista at the same time. Hes not exactly weak, having it tear through Jinbe isnt a negative point


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> It did the same to near everyone else there too, Akainu shrugged off shit from Marco and Vista at the same time. Hes not exactly weak, having it tear through Jinbe isnt a negative point



When did I say Akainu was weak?

Jinbe simply doesn’t have island level durability.


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## El Hermano (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> It did the same to near everyone else there too, Akainu shrugged off shit from Marco and Vista at the same time. Hes not exactly weak, having it tear through Jinbe isnt a negative point


What? What does it have to do with the Jinbe scene? Akainu wasn't actually physically injured, they merely hit his logia form.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

Skinny Phallus said:


> What? What does it have to do with the Jinbe scene? Akainu wasn't actually physically injured, they merely hit his logia form.


They were using haki


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> When did I say Akainu was weak?
> 
> Jinbe simply doesn’t have island level durability.


You saying Akainu is strong and tore through him isnt a point against jinbe being island level lol


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 2, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> But we are the ones who are scaling them off(king and diane), the manga clearly states that they are some ways weaker with the power levels.



I dont understand. Yes, we are the ones scaling them for crossverse purposes after the inverse scaling was established to be >= the original duo.


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> You saying Akainu is strong and tore through him isnt a point against jinbe being island level lol



I’m saying Akainu tearing through Jinbe with ease is the correct portrayal. 

Jinbe intercepting the other attack is something that shouldn’t have happened, but had to due to plot (luffy had to be saved).


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> I’m saying Akainu tearing through Jinbe with ease is the correct portrayal.
> 
> Jinbe intercepting the other attack is something that shouldn’t have happened, but had to due to plot (luffy had to be saved).


So a small continent level character tears through an island level character easily? That’s literally what would happen in a Vs match with stats like that


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 2, 2019)

it’s much easier to prove jinbei has comparable physical abilities to luffy than to say he doesn’t.

luffy is comparabe to the first mate of a yonkou

I think the transition you can make is pretty simple after that


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So a small continent level character tears through an island level character easily? That’s literally what would happen in a Vs match with stats like that



This is circular logic. Both Big Mom and Akainu are small continent level. I’m arguing Jinbe shouldn’t get even partial scaling to them. He shouldn’t get island level when he didn’t do damage to either of them, and Big Mom even while in a weakened starving state knocked Jinbe away through his cross arm block making him bleed.



Dreams of Tommorow said:


> it’s much easier to prove jinbei has comparable physical abilities to luffy than to say he doesn’t.
> 
> luffy is comparable to the first mate of a yonkou
> 
> I think the transition you can make is pretty simple after that



This is disingenuous because of the deceptive way you phrase it. Jinbe having comparable physical abilities to base/G2/G3 Luffy isn’t something anyone has issue with.

Being comparable to G4 Luffy, an extremely powerful transformation that boosts Luffy waaaaaay beyond his base self is a much higher bar that I do not think Jinbe crosses.

Luffy is not comparable to a Yonkou First Mate without G4. That’s a fact.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> This is circular logic. Both Big Mom and Akainu are small continent level. I’m arguing Jinbe shouldn’t get even partial scaling to them. He shouldn’t get island level when he didn’t do damage to either of them, and Big Mom even while in a weakened starving state knocked Jinbe away through his cross arm block making him bleed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He made Katakuri feel his hits in base


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## El Hermano (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> They were using haki


Yet, they couldn't injure him.


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He made Katakuri feel his hits in base



Obvious PIS. There is no indication the gap between Base and G4 Luffy has gotten any smaller.

Base Luffy hurts his own fists when he tries to clash with or block attacks using Block Mochi. Boundman Luffy can knock Katakuri away when he’s using two Block Mochi arms to guard. Base Luffy using G2/G3 could do nothing to a single one of Cracker’s biscuit soldiers, G4 Luffy could destroy tons of them at once (they just kept being reformed or replaced by new ones).


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Obvious PIS. There is no indication the gap between Base and G4 Luffy has gotten any smaller.
> 
> Base Luffy hurts his own fists when he tries to clash with or block attacks using Block Mochi. Boundman Luffy can knock Katakuri away when he’s using two Block Mochi arms to guard. Base Luffy using G2/G3 could do nothing to a single one of Cracker’s biscuit soldiers, G4 Luffy could destroy tons of them at once (they just kept being reformed or replaced by new ones).


So is Cracker island level too? He cut straight through Luffy’s haki then.

Dont see how its PIS, can base luffy not be island level?


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## John Wayne (Jan 2, 2019)

A small continent level guy hitting an island level guy wouldn't merely put a hole through him in a vs setting, it would outright kill him on the spot.

By saying Jinbei can take a punch from an admiral and walk it off, you're basically saying his durability is country+ from partial scaling.


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So is Cracker island level too? He cut straight through Luffy’s haki then.



While Cracker isn’t a First Mate he is a top Yonkou Commander so I wouldn’t be surprised if he had island level base stats, or maybe his armament boosts him to that level. Iirc Luffy said Cracker’s armament was the hardest he’d faced yet when he fought him (after having fought Doflamingo), so there’s that.



“OneSimpleAnime said:


> Don’t see how its PIS, can base luffy not be island level?



The people who rival Base/G2/G3 Luffy (Zoro, Sanji, Law) have not done anything to indicate they are island level. And Luffy cannot beat or match the strength of anyone who is island level without G4. Every time Katakuri had a direct contest of strength (clash) without G4, Luffy was sent back on his ass.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> While Cracker isn’t a First Mate he is a top Yonkou Commander so I wouldn’t be surprised if he had island level base stats, or maybe his armament boosts him to that level. Iirc Luffy said Cracker’s armament was the hardest he’d faced yet when he fought him (after having fought Doflamingo), so there’s that.
> 
> 
> 
> The people who rival Base/G2/G3 Luffy (Zoro, Sanji, Law) have not done anything to indicate they are island level. And Luffy cannot beat or match the strength of anyone who is island level without G4. Every time Katakuri had a direct contest of strength (clash) without G4, Luffy was sent back on his ass.


Why not


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## xenos5 (Jan 2, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Why not



Sanji was humiliated by Doflamingo, Zoro needed help to beat Pica, and Law was styled on by Doflamingo.

Iiirc people don’t give even Doflamingo the island level scaling from Prime Chinjao despite him taking a beating from G4 Luffy and blocking some attacks with awakening. So people below Doflamingo (Base Luffy, Law, Zoro, Sanji) definitely don’t get that scaling by the same standard.


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## Zern227 (Jan 2, 2019)

The Admirals didn't get hurt at Marineford because they're doing what Katakuri does by shaping their body to avoid hits. Aokiji vs Whitebeard is the best example of this.


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## Kingdom Come (Jan 2, 2019)

Zern227 said:


> The Admirals didn't get hurt at Marineford because they're doing what Katakuri does by shaping their body to avoid hits. Aokiji vs Whitebeard is the best example of this.



Uh no


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## Zern227 (Jan 2, 2019)

Kingdom Come said:


> Uh no


I obviously wasn't talking about this. I taking about why people like Vista and Marco didn't hurt Akainu.


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## Ayy lmao (Jan 2, 2019)

Kingdom Come said:


> Uh no


Uh yes. It doesn't make any sense for Akainu to take literally 0 damage from getting his neck cut open by Vista and Marco.


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## Blαck (Jan 2, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Sanji was humiliated by Doflamingo, *Zoro needed help to beat Pica, and Law was styled on by Doflamingo.*
> 
> Iiirc people don’t give even Doflamingo the island level scaling from Prime Chinjao despite him taking a beating from G4 Luffy and blocking some attacks with awakening. So people below Doflamingo (Base Luffy, Law, Zoro, Sanji) definitely don’t get that scaling by the same standard.



These two are kinda wacky, Zoro only needed help to get to Pica not actually defeat him. As for Law style'n Doffy, he got him twice and still lost so that's not much of a feat for Law. But his(Doffy) scaling is only island level in durability for surviving G4 as long as he did, although one could argue his threats towards Fuji should give him  the benefit of the doubt.


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## B Rabbit (Jan 3, 2019)

For me to put a character at island level, they have to be for sure YC/top tier Vice Admiral level. 

Jimbei to me isn't one of those characters. Big Mom was severely weakened in that state, and the Akainu completly shredded him with a magma fist. 

I do believe that Jimbei is on the same level as Sanji, and Zoro, and as Luffy's new M3. So City+ level with the massively hypersonic speed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## B Rabbit (Jan 3, 2019)

Law didn't get styled by Doflamingo. Luffy pointed out that Doflamingo took alot of damage from that fight. 

Styled to me is what Law did to Hawkins.

Reactions: Like 1


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## g4snake108 (Jan 7, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> I dont understand. Yes, we are the ones scaling them for crossverse purposes after the inverse scaling was established to be >= the original duo.


You are scaling her in-verse to feats she has not accomplished yet. Sure, you can argue that she should have surpassed Dolor by now, but it has not been shown.

The feat performed was dolor with his commandment. And we know that a commandment makes you stronger. Diane's last known power level is still less than dolor's. In-verse there has been nothing shown to prove that diane is now above dolor ,let alone dolor+commandment.

So you cannot put her at island level+ just because gil is city level and she is >>> than gil as an argument because that is the same as Sai/Elizabello/pre-ts luffy<<<jinbei


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Jan 7, 2019)

B Rabbit said:


> For me to put a character at island level, they have to be for sure YC/top tier Vice Admiral level.
> 
> Jimbei to me isn't one of those characters. Big Mom was severely weakened in that state, and the Akainu completly shredded him with a magma fist.
> 
> I do believe that Jimbei is on the same level as Sanji, and Zoro, and as Luffy's new M3. So City+ level with the massively hypersonic speed.



I think there’s a case to be made that jinbei is legit just stronger than sanji at the very least imo


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## Mythoclast (Jan 7, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> You are scaling her in-verse to feats she has not accomplished yet. Sure, you can argue that she should have surpassed Dolor by now, but it has not been shown.


What are you on about?
It's outright stated that her attack power is on par with base Dolor.And she has tanked attacks from multiple island level characters.That warrants scaling.



g4snake108 said:


> The feat performed was dolor with his commandment. And we know that a commandment makes you stronger.


It only boosts your power when you absorb them the way Mel and Mael did.


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## Divell (Jan 8, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >stops an attack from Big Mom
> >city+
> 
> Yea no


He also stopped attacks from Akainu.


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## g4snake108 (Jan 8, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> What are you on about?


That diane does not scale DC-wise to island level because she has never shown it.Same as jinbei.


> It's outright stated that her attack power is on par with base Dolor.


where?


> And she has tanked attacks from multiple island level characters.That warrants scaling.


That means she scales durability wise to island level,not DC wise. I am not arguing about her durability at all.



> It only boosts your power when you absorb them the way Mel and Mael did.


Again, where are you getting these *facts* from? Each commandment is part of a power that the DK gave away to split his power and we have seen each of them making one stronger,hence the need for meliodas to absorb all to figt the DK.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 8, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> That diane does not scale DC-wise to island level because she has never shown it.Same as jinbei.
> 
> where?
> 
> ...


So Galan’s power level is -1000? Since his commandment gave 28k powerlvl to Maelsterossa and all


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## g4snake108 (Jan 8, 2019)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> So Galan’s power level is -1000? Since his commandment gave 28k powerlvl to Maelsterossa and all


When did I ever mention that commandments give linear power ups? Or rather even try to explain how much power up you get from it?

G4 is better than g3. Do you infer that g3 is level 1 and g4 500 from this statement?

And galan's power level with CO is 50k IIRC....


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## Mythoclast (Jan 8, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> That diane does not scale DC-wise to island level because she has never shown it.Same as jinbei.
> 
> where?



*Spoiler*: __ 









Her earth magic can also casually stop an island level attack from King.




> Again, where are you getting these *facts* from? Each commandment is part of a power that the DK gave away to split his power and we have seen each of them making one stronger,hence the need for meliodas to absorb all to figt the DK.


You only a power up when you do the incantation.The only Commandments that have knowledge the incantation are Mel,Zeldris,Derierre and Estarossa.

*Spoiler*: __ 









After the absorbing them with the incantation,Mael got some abilities and a power boost from them(no other member of the Commandments displayed the ability utilize their decrees like him,but their passive were still in effect).
He also evidently lost the curses attached to the Commandments after absorbing them with the incantation.
He hated Gowther,yet the Love Commandment didn't kick in.

*Spoiler*: __ 










There's no powerup or abilities if the curse is active.
 If that was the case it would mean Galan's powerlevel before getting the Truth commandment was -1000 since Mael powerlevel went up 28k...
(Galan's og powerlevel in base is 27k)


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## g4snake108 (Jan 8, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> *Spoiler*: __


okay..who is that demon to know about dolor?but okay,she is on par for arguments sake with base dolor.


> Her earth magic can also casually stop an island level attack from King.


King with wings full grown, ie 200k plvl king?



> You only a power up when you do the incantation.The only Commandments that have knowledge the incantation are Mel,Zeldris,Derierre and Estarossa.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


No, that's the incantation to absorb more than 1 commandment. Zeldris straight up teels diane in dolors body that joining the commandments will make them even stronger as they will acquire more power(in the flashback,when he attacks her)


> .
> There's no powerup or abilities if the curse is active.
> If that was the case it would mean Galan's powerlevel before getting the Truth commandment was -1000 since Mael powerlevel went up 28k...
> (Galan's og powerlevel in base is 27k)


Again no. The power levels are not at all linear nor are they stated as such in the manga or I missed some calc where someone proved the powerlevels are linear. A commandment is not "x" powerlevel. It is just a power increase unlike let's say the saiyan powerup where the multipliers are stated.You would have to prove that they are linear in nature(and if they are, I heavily doubt mel would reach/easily surpass 200k that estarossa and king currently stand at by just absorbing them)

Gil's <2k level is 500MT and dolors 50k is only 24gt with galan somewhere in between with 1.2GT I believe.It's just a in-verse way of comparing the powers of these guys. But diane's is clearly shown to be less than dolor with commandment. The first pic you showed me even helps me prove my point(if we are even taking a random statement at face value) because diane is "only" 48k while dolor+commandment is 55k so diane is not comparable to dolor+commandment


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## Mythoclast (Jan 9, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> okay..who is that demon to know about dolor?but okay,she is on par for arguments sake with base dolor.


It's Melascylla.Another Commandment.



> King with wings full grown, ie 200k plvl king?


No.
Baby wings King that ripped a hole through Chandler's torso.



> No, that's the incantation to absorb more than 1 commandment. Zeldris straight up teels diane in dolors body that joining the commandments will make them even stronger as they will acquire more power(in the flashback,when he attacks her)


No such thing was ever shown tho.
Gloxinia even after having his Commandment taken away was still stronger than 40k King.That would mean the powerboost is miniscule af to even matter.

And as I said,if the curse is active,you don't get the commandment ability or a powerboost.That's evident.


> Again no. The power levels are not at all linear nor are they stated as such in the manga or I missed some calc where someone proved the powerlevels are linear. A commandment is not "x" powerlevel. It is just a power increase unlike let's say the saiyan powerup where the multipliers are stated.You would have to prove that they are linear in nature(and if they are, I heavily doubt mel would reach/easily surpass 200k that estarossa and king currently stand at by just absorbing them)


What are you even talking about?
Are you saying the Truth commandment gives Estarossa an arbitrary,bigger boost than Galan?

Also Mel is gonna dwarf 200k with all the Commandments.He's getting 50% of his Pops power.Hell he said that he'd be so strong that his presence alone would fuck up the human realm.


> Gil's <2k level is 500MT and dolors 50k is only 24gt with galan somewhere in between with 1.2GT I believe.It's just a in-verse way of comparing the powers of these guys. But diane's is clearly shown to be less than dolor with commandment.* The first pic you showed me even helps me prove my point*(if we are even taking a random statement at face value) because diane is "only" 48k while dolor+commandment is 55k so diane is not comparable to dolor+commandment


It doesn't.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 9, 2019)

Yea i see no reason to even try with this dude anymore


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## g4snake108 (Jan 9, 2019)

Mythoclast said:


> It's Melascylla.Another Commandment.


okay.



> No.
> Baby wings King that ripped a hole through Chandler's torso.


Who is power level 41k compared to diane's 48-49k. So she should be stronger.


> No such thing was ever shown tho.
> Gloxinia even after having his Commandment taken away was still stronger than 40k King.That would mean the powerboost is miniscule af to even matter.


Which just disproves your point that power scaling is linear. Which it isn't. Neither of us knows how big of a gap there is from power level 41k to 41.5k.So why are you trying to say it's miniscule or big to support your argument? It may well be going from city->island or nothing much at all.


> And as I said,if the curse is active,you don't get the commandment ability or a powerboost.That's evident.


It really isn't. It's your interpretation.Zeldris straight up suggests that dolor will get a power up if he joins the commandments. You are ignoring that when powerscaling dolor's feat to diane when diane is only compared to dolor and not dolor+commandment.


> What are you even talking about?
> Are you saying the Truth commandment gives Estarossa an arbitrary,bigger boost than Galan?


I don't know what you are talkinh about here.


> Also Mel is gonna dwarf 200k with all the Commandments.He's getting 50% of his Pops power.Hell he said that he'd be so strong that his presence alone would fuck up the human realm.


Yes,thanks. Exactly what I was proving. Power ups or even power numbers are not linear for you to say "miniscule"/"constant"/negative power etc etc.

The only sure thing is diane's power level is < dolor's when he performed the feat from actual manga evidence. You cannot scale her up to the feat if she is shown to be lower just because.


> It doesn't.


I don't know what you are trying to say here and why it's so hard to understand for you. The entire argument revolves around the fact that diane is 48k currently and dolor when he performed the island level feat is 55k. There is no way to tell how the power gaps are between the power levels. So the simple thing to go by is, unless diane exceeds 55k, she is not scaling to dolor's island level in DC.


Show me panel evidence that power level of <55k is capable of the feat dolor did and you can scale diane to it. It's that simple. The fact that you judge jinbe as not scalable to something applies to diane as well.=


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## RavenSupreme (Jan 10, 2019)

Alright so pretty much everyone aside from g4snake accepts a Diane as Island level. No need to try and convince him any further, seeing how its a futile effort. Respect his opinion and move on.

Whats Jinbes standing with all the BM shenanigans?

When thats settled we can come to a conclusion

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (Jan 10, 2019)

Like I said truly only YC scale to island and Jimbei isn't one.


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## Kroczilla (Jan 10, 2019)

RavenSupreme said:


> Whats Jinbes standing with all the BM shenanigans?



City+ level. Same as zoro and sanji.
Getting sent flying by attack from a nerfed big mom is hardly island level.  Not to mention sanji and g3 luffy matched an attack from big mom and they definitely weren't island level.


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