# Sasuke and Gaara vs Edo Itachi and Nagato



## Ninja Art (Oct 28, 2013)

*Location*: Samurai Bridge(where Sasuke and Danzo fought)
*Knowledge*: Manga
*Mindset*:Bloodlust
*Distance*: 20 meters 
*Restrictions*: None

Which team wins this?


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## Crow (Oct 28, 2013)

BLOOD LUST? 
EDO ITACHI AND NAGATO 
HAX

This battle is so easy Sasuke and Gaara has nothing to counter Chibaku Tensei 
And if they try anything..........YATA MIRROR

Gaara gets killed by black flames 
Sasuke dies from many reasons ill name one Chibaku Tensei


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## Octavian (Oct 28, 2013)

Sauce solos with PS.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Current EMS Sasuke (with Perfect Susano'o) and potential Perfect Jinchuriki Gaara/Current full power Gaara? I'd give them more wins here than Nagato and Itachi due to Perfect Susano'o's power. Gaara was able to, while weakened, fight five Complete Susano'o's all at once while protecting Mei and the other Kages and defeated two Kages (one of which is part of the strongest in history), so he should be able to hold out and defeat Edo Itachi who honestly has nothing that can get through his defense.

Nagato is the toughest due to his mastery of the Rinnegan, and Chibaku Tensei is his most dangerous ability. However, due to Perfect Susano'o's power, it should be able to resist and break through it if not destroy the core. Then it'd be both Gaara and Sasuke vs Nagato which should allow for a victory for team 1.


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## Lord Aizen (Oct 28, 2013)

Nagato solos this one village busting shinra tensai and it's over nothing PS and sand are not going to do anything


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## Ninja Art (Oct 28, 2013)

Lord Aizen said:


> Nagato solos this one village busting shinra tensai and it's over nothing PS and sand are not going to do anything



Perfect Susanoo's Island level+ durability laughs at Shinra Tensei


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

Ninja Art said:


> Perfect Susanoo's Island level+ durability laughs at Shinra Tensei



Who in this matchup has perfect Susanoo? Sasuke has final Susanoo, but no where near Perfect Susanoo nor its destructive capabilities.


Nagato takes this one...he's to powerful.

Only ones who can beat Nagato are...Hashirama(if Mokuton can't be absorbed, Madara as well)...Naruto(possibly), Obito(Kamui), Kakashi(kamui)...thats it.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

Sasuke's PS is no bigger than Gyuki or BM Naruto..... sorry but thats not cutting it against Nagato 

Bloodlusted means Gedo Mazo comes out and all hell breaks loose. If Gedo Mazo + boss sized _Shinra Tensei_ & _Laser Explosions_ don't put the lot down, a fully powered CST & CT will, good luck Sasuke & Gaara 

And this isn't even counting Itachi being Itachi


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Sasuke's PS is no bigger than Gyuki or BM Naruto..... sorry but thats not enough to damage, let alone break through CT


Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o's full size is unknown at this point: its still _shaped_ around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode. Shaping would shrink that too.


> Bloodlusted means Gedo Mazo comes out followed by a fully powered CST & CT, good luck Sasuke & Gaara


And bloodlust means Gaara brings out an desert's worth of sand and Sasuke immediately goes Perfect Susano'o too.



IchLiebe said:


> Who in this matchup has perfect Susanoo? Sasuke has final Susanoo, but no where near Perfect Susanoo nor its destructive capabilities.


Perfect Susano'o's traits are the tengu mask and the 'wing arms' which Sasuke displayed. Just because its shaped around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode doesn't mean he doesn't have it.



> Nagato takes this one...he's to powerful.


Perfect Susano'o closes that gap quite considerably.


> Only ones who can beat Nagato are...Hashirama(if Mokuton can't be absorbed, Madara as well)...Naruto(possibly), Obito(Kamui), Kakashi(kamui)...thats it.


...Kakashi can't defeat Nagato even with Kamui. He was fodderized even with it with Deva Path. Naruto's more than powerful enough to defeat Nagato too now.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

Ninja Art said:


> Perfect Susanoo's Island level+ durability laughs at Shinra Tensei



Then it gets turned into jelly by Nagato's fully powered CT


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## Ninja Art (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Who in this matchup has perfect Susanoo? Sasuke has final Susanoo, but no where near Perfect Susanoo nor its destructive capabilities.
> 
> 
> Nagato takes this one...he's to powerful.
> ...



What the fu_k are you talking about?

Tengu nose/PS head
PS shoulder blades
Sasuke saying "Does this feel the same as what Madara did in the past?"
*Well tell me what you see here in that scan.*
Sasuke Susanoo armoring the Kyuubi like Madara did in the past

All of this facts are saying Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo.... possibly for Naruto? lol, Naruto rolfstomps Nagato 100%...Kakashi beating Nagato? LMAO


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Then it gets turned into jelly by Nagato's fully powered CT


Chibaku Tensei against Perfect Susano'o would likely end with Perfect Susano'o defeating it. After all, KN8 can break through Chibaku Tensei and free itself.


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## eyeknockout (Oct 28, 2013)

no restrictions, that means itachi has kotoamatsukami, sasuke never obtained a perfect susanoo.

so either of team itanago can solo


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o's full size is unknown at this point: its still _shaped_ around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode. Shaping would shrink that too.



Thats fine, but until we know how big Sasuke can make PS and the fact Tobirama stated he has the potential to pass Madara (i.e there not on the same level now) kind implies he's maxing it atm...

So as it stands.... Sasuke's PS is nowhere near the multi-mountain cutter that is Madara's, and very much in the realm to be put down by a fully powered bloodlusted healthy Nagato



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And bloodlust means Gaara brings out an desert's worth of sand and Sasuke immediately goes Perfect Susano'o too.



When has Gaara grinded a desert worse of sand within in seconds..... when he's *not* in the desert

Thats fine.... what is Sasuke's PS supposed to do? Swing it's sword only to have that deflected by Gedo Mazo's roar or Nagato sending it 10km out with a boss sized ST


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## The World (Oct 28, 2013)

Octavian said:


> Sauce solos with PS.



Too bad he doesn't have it


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## Ninja Art (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Then it gets turned into jelly by Nagato's fully powered CT



The core gets destroyed by PS slash before CT forms..


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Thats fine, but until we know how big Sasuke can make PS and the fact Tobirama stated he has the potential to pass Madara (i.e there not on the same level now) kind implies he's maxing it atm...


The fact he achieved Perfect Susano'o _and_ could shape it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode, exactly like EMS Madara, makes me think that Sasuke has achieved that level at least. He can do what Madara can do now.


> So as it stands.... Sasuke's PS is nowhere near the multi-mountain cutter that is Madara's


Why wouldn't it be? At this point we can use powerscaling since Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is basically the same thing as Madara's now. The only difference is its shaped around a smaller (Yet stronger) Biju form. 




> When has Gaara grinded a desert worse of sand within in seconds..... when he's *not* in the desert


Kimimaro fight. He brought out an massive amount of sand extremely quickly after all and that was Part I. This is Kazekage Gaara.


> Thats fine.... what is Sasuke's PS supposed to do? Swing it's have that deflected by Gedo Mazo roar or Nagato sending it 10km out with a boss sized ST


I'm thinking Gedo Mazo will be thrown back by the slash: Gyuki and a weakened KCM Naruto were able to knock it on its ass and Nagato's Shinra Tensei I think can be resisted by Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o's sheer size.



The World said:


> Too bad he doesn't have it


Except he does. Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, all the traits of it.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Chibaku Tensei against Perfect Susano'o would likely end with Perfect Susano'o defeating it. After all, KN8 can break through Chibaku Tensei and free itself.



Um since when is Sasuke's _Sasuno'o_ as strong as KN8, seeing KN8 should have somewhat comparable strength to BM Naruto, who can throw Biju's around like toys with one arm.

Secondly Kurama didn't even completely free himself, and Nagato was going to up CT to lvl 11 to counter... on the verge of death + being unhealthy


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Um since when is Sasuke's _Sasuno'o_ as strong as KN8, seeing KN8 should have somewhat comparable strength to BM Naruto, who can throw Biju's around like toys with one arm.


Perfect Susano'o is comparable to a Biju in strength. KN8 is less than full power to a full Biju. 


> Secondly Kurama didn't even completely free himself, and Nagato was going to up CT to lvl 11 to counter... on the verge of death + being unhealthy


Kurama only didn't completely free himself due to Minato's intervention dude. And even though he was trying to counter, we don't know if he would have been able to do it in the state he was.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

Ninja Art said:


> What the fu_k are you talking about?
> 
> Tengu nose/PS head
> PS shoulder blades
> ...



No those are traits of Susanoo.


Also Sasuke was commenting on what he was feeling as he was merging not only with the Kyuubi's chakra, but Naruto's aswell. Of course something is going to feel funny when you merge 2 entities with separate chakra pools.

Perfect Susanoo is atleast 1 mile tall and must be stabilized, and its destructive capabilities are astounding. 

I said "Kamui", you can't defend against it.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> No those are traits of Susanoo.
> 
> Perfect Susanoo is atleast 1 mile tall and must be stabilized, and its destructive capabilities are astounding.


Which Sasuke has achieved. Perfect Susano'o has the tengu mask, the winged arms, and can be shaped around Kurama. Sasuke has done all three.


> I said "Kamui", you can't defend against it.


Other than distrupt it with Shinra Tensei or absorb it due to it being a ninjutsu with Preta Path? Kakashi himself wrote it off while fighting Deva Path alone.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 28, 2013)

Sasuke solos with Perfect Susano'o.

Take that away and Nagato solos with Chibaku Tensei.

Restrict Chibaku Tensei and Edo Itachi and Nagato still win by being generally superior; Gaara is a major weak link, here.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Gaara was able to, while weakened, fight five Complete Susano'o's all at once while protecting Mei and the other Kages and defeated two Kages (one of which is part of the strongest in history), so he should be able to hold out and defeat Edo Itachi who honestly has nothing that can get through his defense.



Gaara beats Edo Itachi, now?

My sides.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The fact he achieved Perfect Susano'o _and_ could shape it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode, exactly like EMS Madara, makes me think that Sasuke has achieved that level at least. He can do what Madara can do now.



Madara created a PS that is literally 3-4 times bigger than one Sasuke made, Sasuke's perfect _Sasuno'o_ is 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Why wouldn't it be? At this point we can use powerscaling since Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is basically the same thing as Madara's now. The only difference is its shaped around a smaller (Yet stronger) Biju form.



Because the best thing Sasuke has cut through is a 500m tree trunk/branch... Not slice a _Tengai Shensei_ + a mountain in half from 10+km away... It's called feats.

Tobirama completely shuts down the notion that Sasuke and Madara are equal when he said Sasuke had the same potential as Madara... it's a nice way of saying that they are not equals  



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kimimaro fight. He brought out an massive amount of sand extremely quickly after all and that was Part I. This is Kazekage Gaara.



We saw what he was capable of doing against Deidara and the Edo Hokage perspectively... in the DESERT. He isn't going to make that much sand as fast as Sasuke can pull out PS or Nagato can summon Gedo Mazo or nuke with ST



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm thinking Gedo Mazo will be thrown back by the slash: Gyuki and a weakened KCM Naruto were able to knock it on its ass and Nagato's Shinra Tensei I think can be resisted by Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o's sheer size.



If it roars, the shockwave would by all means deflect the sword slash. By feats Gyuki was able to back hand Kokou 2-3km across the _Biju Hachimaki_ crater so thats really not surprising. 

Unfortunately for Sasuke he's PS (feat wise) would be no bigger than the boss summons or a biju, the formers which were sent outside the village on a whim by Tendo, despite there size. 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except he does. Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, all the traits of it.



Nagato has the rinnegan, but do you see him pulling down asteroids from the sky like Madara? 

same principle.... atm Sasuke's PS is not the 4 armed monstrosity incarnate of destruction that Madara's is


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Perfect Susano'o is comparable to a Biju in strength. KN8 is less than full power to a full Biju.
> 
> Kurama only didn't completely free himself due to Minato's intervention dude. And even though he was trying to counter, we don't know if he would have been able to do it in the state he was.



Madara's PS is of comparable strength as it can't one shot mountains... Sasuke's does not have the feats to do such regardless of the power scaling (which Tobirama rejected)

Hasen't in been reinforced Kurama is in a class of his own when it comes to strength and power. KN8 is still stronger than Gyuki on the fact Gyuki would have been killed in Nagato's CT something Kabuto & Naruto himself confirmed

Nagato was still able to revive the *entire* damn village with _Rinne Tensei_ after using CT... the man is a chakra monster thanks to his Uzumaki lineage despite his condition (which isn't present in this scenario)


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Madara created a PS that is literally 3-4 times bigger than one Sasuke made, Sasuke's perfect _Sasuno'o_ is


Again, its only bigger because Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is *actively shaped around something smaller than it.* Its true size is unknown, but there is no reason to believe it'd be far smaller than Madara's.




> Because the best thing Sasuke has cut through is a 500m tree trunk/branch... Not slice a _Tengai Shensei_ + a mountain in half from 10+km away... It's called feats.


That's his supersized _COMPLETE SUSANO'O_, not his Perfect Susano'o. Sasuke achieved Perfect Susano'o and there's no reason to believe, at all, its weaker or smaller than Madara's other than bias against Sasuke's at this point.


> Tobirama completely shuts down the notion that Sasuke and Madara are equal when he said Sasuke had the same potential as Madara... it's a nice way of saying that they are not equals


And Sasuke achieves the exact same level of EMS Madara shortly after that. There is no reason to believe Sasuke isn't on Madara's level now. 




> We saw what he was capable of doing against Deidara and the Edo Hokage perspectively... in the DESERT. He isn't going to make that much sand as fast as Sasuke can pull out PS or Nagato can summon Gedo Mazo or nuke with ST


In Part I, Gaara was creating deserts to fight Kimimaro. Gaara is now Kazekage, alluding to the fact he can do the same better. 




> If it roars, the shockwave would by all means deflect the sword slash. By feats Gyuki was able to back hand Kokou 2-3km across the _Biju Hachimaki_ crater so thats really not surprising.


And you're ignoring KCM Naruto too. And no, I'm not seeing the shockwave deflecting a Perfect Susano'o slash from Sasuke.


> Unfortunately for Sasuke he's PS (feat wise) would be no bigger than the boss summons or a biju, the formers which were sent outside the village on a whim by Tendo, despite there size.


No, you're just refusing to power scale Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o to Madara's on the insane notion that its shaped size around Biju Sage Mode is its full size, thus making it weaker. And guess what, Shinra Tensei was resisted by _KN6_, Perfect Susano'o would effectively shrug it off.




> Nagato has the rinnegan, but do you see him pulling down asteroids from the sky like Madara?


Not at all. Nagato and Madara's skills are different and Nagato _never knew the Sharingan and Rinnegan were related_ thus couldn't use their technique's!


> same principle.... atm Sasuke's PS is not the 4 armed monstrosity incarnate of destruction that Madara's is


Not at all. Sasuke achieved the same level of Susano'o Madara has, performed the same level of shape manipulation on Kurama that Madara has, and you're only refusing to powerscale at this point due to a dislike of Sasuke or inability to give credit where credit is due.


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## Joakim3 (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Again, its only bigger because Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is *actively shaped around something smaller than it.* Its true size is unknown, but there is no reason to believe it'd be far smaller than Madara's.


 
Sure there is..... every character to date including people who have seen both fight agree the Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara... not that he HAS ALREADY



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> That's his supersized _COMPLETE SUSANO'O_, not his Perfect Susano'o. Sasuke achieved Perfect Susano'o and there's no reason to believe, at all, its weaker or smaller than Madara's other than bias against Sasuke's at this point.



Thats was Madara's _Perfect Sasuno'o_.... in the fact he had to stabilize it because it was so damn massive 

It's not bias, it's called feats and character statements the contradict what your imply... that Sasuke PS is equal to Madara's because they look the same.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And Sasuke achieves the exact same level of EMS Madara shortly after that. There is no reason to believe Sasuke isn't on Madara's level now.



...... again just because they have the same eyes does not mean they are of the same power. Theres every reason to believe they aren't on the same level when Tobirama (who has fought Madara) says they aren't




SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> In Part I, Gaara was creating deserts to fight Kimimaro. Gaara is now Kazekage, alluding to the fact he can do the same better.



His deserts weren't covering cities... we saw what a Biju equipped Gaara was capable of doing, he is not making a cities worth of sand in seconds when he's not fighting in a desert



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you're ignoring KCM Naruto too. And no, I'm not seeing the shockwave deflecting a Perfect Susano'o slash from Sasuke.



RM Naruto while strong in his own right is not SM or Gyuki level. Gedo Mazo's shockwave was capable of knocking a Biju sized Chozu & Choji across the battlefield with no effort.

Sasuke's PS slash has a ~500m effect, something the chakra roar has comparable power to and AoE to



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, you're just refusing to power scale Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o to Madara's on the insane notion that its shaped size around Biju Sage Mode is its full size, thus making it weaker. And guess what, Shinra Tensei was resisted by _KN6_, Perfect Susano'o would effectively shrug it off.



Insane notion... give me one example or evidence that states with 100% un-refutable doubt that Sasuke can no go toe-toe with Madara Uchiha other than Sasuke covered a smaller BSM Kurama.

Because thats the biggest _Shinra Tensei_ Nagato's made,

...it was about what, several hundred times smaller than a boss sized ST and thousands upon thousands of times smaller than CST...... all through Tendo, not Nagato



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not at all. Nagato and Madara's skills are different and Nagato _never knew the Sharingan and Rinnegan were related_ thus couldn't use their technique's!



Ok... in the same manner Sasuke's eyes and Madara's eyes aren't the same other than both being EMS.

By your logic every MS user should be able to use Kamui, Amatearsu, Enton, etc... because they are all just MS. Each person has different abilities. Madara's happens to be a 1+ mile tall megazord of death 



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not at all. Sasuke achieved the same level of Susano'o Madara has, performed the same level of shape manipulation on Kurama that Madara has, and you're only refusing to powerscale at this point due to a dislike of Sasuke or inability to give credit where credit is due.



Yeah Sasuke's done everything on a smaller scale..... that by itself throws out the notion that their on the same level. When Sasuke makes a PS 1+ mile tall and can start carving mountain ranges casually I'll give him all the credit he deserves


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## Lawrence777 (Oct 28, 2013)

Sasuke is still not as powerful as Madara.

Nagato maybe, potentially, dubiously still be able to beat him with great amounts of difficulty.


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## Lord Aizen (Oct 28, 2013)

Ninja Art said:


> Perfect Susanoo's Island level+ durability laughs at Shinra Tensei



No way their is no way PS is surviving that attack, it can handle bijuu balls but not a village busting shinra tensai. You underestimate Nagato and rinnegan abilities


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Joakim3 said:


> Sure there is..... every character to date including people who have seen both fight agree the Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara... not that he HAS ALREADY


You do realize that statement was prior to Sasuke achieving Perfect Susano'o, right? Back when he just had incorporated Jugo's Senjutsu into his Complete Susano'o.

Sasuke then, few chapters later, achieves the exact same Susano'o mastery and Perfect Susano'o that Madara has. THat's Kishimoto's way of saying 'Sasuke is now on Madara's level', with even Sasuke saying 'this is what Madara used to do.'


> Thats was Madara's _Perfect Sasuno'o_.... in the fact he had to stabilize it because it was so damn massive


I was saying Sasuke's over sized Complete Susano'o cut the gigantic Shinju root, NOT his Perfect Susano'o since it hadn't been achieved there yet.


> It's not bias, it's called feats and character statements the contradict what your imply... that Sasuke PS is equal to Madara's because they look the same.


Its called powerscaling. Both Sasuke and Madara achieved Perfect Susano'o, both of them have achieved shaping said Perfect Susano'o around Kurama. That's Kishimoto's way of hammering it in that Sasuke has now gotten to Madara's level.




> ...... again just because they have the same eyes does not mean they are of the same power. Theres every reason to believe they aren't on the same level when Tobirama (who has fought Madara) says they aren't


Tobirama hasn't even _commented_ on Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o, he's only commented, upon _seeing Sasuke do something Madara couldn't, incorporating Senjutsu into Susano'o_, that he has the potential to surpass Madara. Few chapters later, Sasuke achieves Perfect Susano'o and even shapes it around Kurama-what is the author intent there if its NOT saying 'Sasuke is now on EMS Madara's level'?





> His deserts weren't covering cities... we saw what a Biju equipped Gaara was capable of doing, he is not making a cities worth of sand in seconds when he's not fighting in a desert


Again, Part I Gaara was creating absolutely gigantic sand tsunami's in fieldsand reshaping the entire landscape. That was when Gaara was still a _genin_. Gaara as a Kazekage is even stronger than he was with Shukaku, the Fourth Kazekage even mistook him for unleashing Shukaku by the sheer volume he could control and was surprised that it was Gaara all alone.




> RM Naruto while strong in his own right is not SM or Gyuki level. Gedo Mazo's shockwave was capable of knocking a Biju sized Chozu & Choji across the battlefield with no effort.


Both Gyuki and KCM Naruto were able to knock Gedo Mazo on its ass. Forgot that panel? And Gedo Mazo itself struggled fighting an actual Biju considering Obito opted just to transform it there.


> Sasuke's PS slash has a ~500m effect, something the chakra roar has comparable power to and AoE to


No, that was his supersized _Complete stage_ Susano'o, powered up by Naruto's chakra. This is Perfect Susano'o shaped *around* Biju Sage Mode Naruto. And his Susano'o Swords in this form can overpower the Sword of Nunoboko when Naruto gives him Senjutsu, just making the attack effective on it. You're continually using a Complete Susano'o feat for a Perfect Susano'o feat, and leaving out any power scaling to Madara.




> Insane notion... give me one example or evidence that states with 100% un-refutable doubt that Sasuke can no go toe-toe with Madara Uchiha other than Sasuke covered a smaller BSM Kurama.


Both Madara and Sasuke have achieved Perfect Susano'o, the highest state of Susano'o mastery, both Madara and Sasuke have achieved the feat of shaping their Perfect Susano'o around Kurama. The manga makes it BLATANTLY clear Sasuke is on EMS Madara's level now.


> Because thats the biggest _Shinra Tensei_ Nagato's made, it's about what several hundred times smaller than size of a boss sized ST


The boss summon one shouldn't damage Perfect Susano'o at all, its only 1.2 Kilotons of power. KN6 was able to resist a similar power, if not stronger Shinra Tensei and throw it right back at Nagato, Perfect Susano'o Sasuke should be able to do the same.




> Ok... in the same manner Sasuke's eyes and Madara's eyes aren't the same other than both being EMS.
> 
> By your logic every MS user should be able to use Kamui, Amatearsu, Enton, etc... because they are all just MS. Each person has different abilities. Madara's happens to be a 1+ mile tall megazord of death


Wrong. Sasuke and Madara's eyes aren't just the same, their abilities ALSO are the same. Both can use Susano'o? Check. Both have the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan? Check. Both achieved Perfect Susano'o? Check. Both can shape their Perfect Susano'o, a feat no other Susano'o user (including Itachi) around a Tailed Beast? Check. 

Manga makes it blatantly clear.


> Yeah Sasuke's done everything on a smaller scale..... that by itself throws out the notion that their on the same level. When Sasuke makes a PS 1+ mile tall and can start carving mountain ranges casually I'll give him all the credit he deserves




Sasuke can do everything Madara can do now. They've achieved the same mastery of Susano'o, Sasuke did EVERYTHING MADARA COULD DO with his! Its like saying Biju Sage Mode Naruto can't do everything Kurama can at this point. 

Sasuke's been shown he's on Madara's level by making it to Perfect Susano'o and shaping it around Biju Sage Mode Naruto. That's the way the manga is.


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## The World (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Except he does. Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, all the traits of it.



Except he doesn't

PS is bigger than a mountain


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

The World said:


> Except he doesn't
> 
> PS is bigger than a mountain


You do realize that the only reason why Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is smaller is because _he shaped it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode_ just like how , from Sasuke's own words, Madara shaped his around Kurama in the past? Its true size is unknown, but there is no reason to believe his Perfect Susano'o is smaller at all if it was separate from Naruto's Biju Sage Mode.

And actually, Perfect Susano'o's size can be considered inconsistent too considering Mokuton: Mokujin no Jutsu is near the same size crouched over Kurama and Final Stage Susano'o from Madara.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 28, 2013)

SSM12, if it were Itachi instead of Sasuke, you would be on the opposite side of this argument.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Which Sasuke has achieved. Perfect Susano'o has the tengu mask, the winged arms, and can be shaped around Kurama. Sasuke has done all three.
> 
> Other than distrupt it with Shinra Tensei or absorb it due to it being a ninjutsu with Preta Path? Kakashi himself wrote it off while fighting Deva Path alone.



But Kakashi didn't try it. Kamui is weird since no one really knows the true mechanics, just what we've been shown, and how certain jutsu's will effect it.


But I have yet to see Sasuke's a mile tall and have superb destructive capabilities.

Not that it matters. I haven't even factored into Itachi because I hate to debate for Itachi because it would help the enemy. It might be a tad bigger, but still get preta'd, get S/T, and Sasuke get pulled out.

All Sasuke's shown is to grow legs. Now would we say those 25 mokuton clones were using perfect Susanoo...no we don't.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You do realize that the only reason why Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is smaller is because _he shaped it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode_ just like how , from Sasuke's own words, Madara shaped his around Kurama in the past? Its true size is unknown, but there is no reason to believe his Perfect Susano'o is smaller at all if it was separate from Naruto's Biju Sage Mode.


Doesn't take Perfect Susanoo to enshroud the Kyuubi and you proved this with the scans you posted.





> And actually, Perfect Susano'o's size can be considered inconsistent too considering Mokuton: Mokujin no Jutsu is near the same size crouched over Kurama and Final Stage Susano'o from Madara.


Second scan isn't perfect Susanoo.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> But I have yet to see Sasuke's a mile tall and have superb destructive capabilities.
> 
> Not that it matters. I haven't even factored into Itachi because I hate to debate for Itachi because it would help the enemy. It might be a tad bigger, but still get preta'd, get S/T, and Sasuke get pulled out.
> 
> All Sasuke's shown is to grow legs. Now would we say those 25 mokuton clones were using perfect Susanoo...no we don't.



Are you stubborn or just plain dense? PS is the stabilized version of the final susanoo. That's all. Sasuke has shown this.

Sasuke's PS:



Madara's PS: 



Madara's PS covering Kurama:



Same shoulder blades, tengu nose, tengu mask, the paper flack, etc. etc. Sasuke's final susanoo has none of those traits because his final susanoo is his pre-stabilized version, which are these:

Sasuke's final susanoo:



Madara's final susanoo:



The one you're referencing to when speaking of Madara's clones is the complete susanoo with legs but no armor.

Sasuke legged susanoo:



Madara's legged susanoo:



As you can see, they're nearly identical. 

And it's already been stated numerous times in this thread that Sasuke's PS wouldn't be as big as Madara's because it's wrapping itself around something smaller, but he has PS. That's a fact.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Doesn't take Perfect Susanoo to enshroud the Kyuubi and you proved this with the scans you posted.


It does take Perfect Susano'o to armor Kurama. No other stage of Susano'o is big enough to do so. IchLiebe, Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, both his Susano'o and Madara's are directly compared, and they have the EXACT SAME FUCKING TRAITS.


> Second scan isn't perfect Susanoo.


...I know that. I was going for a size comparison between Mokujin and Perfect Susano'o to show that even Madara's Perfect Susano'o size isn't consistent.


----------



## Gibbs (Oct 28, 2013)

I am just going to say that Sasuke has had a chakra boost via KN1 cloak which might account for his pseudo-Perfet Susanoo


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

The Phoenix King said:


> I am just going to say that Sasuke has had a chakra boost via KN1 cloak which might account for his pseudo-Perfet Susanoo


Sasuke achieved Perfect Susano'o, for real, WITHOUT KN1 Cloak.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

Vegeta you pay attention to.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It does take Perfect Susano'o to armor Kurama. No other stage of Susano'o is big enough to do so. IchLiebe, Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, both his Susano'o and Madara's are directly compared, and they have the EXACT SAME FUCKING TRAITS.


 Except for size and destructive capability. Madara only cloaked the kyuubi with his Susanoo. Now we know of course that he doesn't even use that Susanoo anymore and its inferior due to him having legs for speed and then PS for destructive capabilities which Sasuke is far inferior to Madara and his PS.





> ...I know that. I was going for a size comparison between Mokujin and Perfect Susano'o to show that even Madara's Perfect Susano'o size isn't consistent.


But its hard to judge size when it is a 2d piece of art of the calibur Naruto is at certain times. The first two scans he posted, you really can't see a size difference between you have nothing to gauge the height. In the first scan you can go according to characters height, of which would make their kyuubi cloaked Susanoo rather small.

Also notice Sasuke didn't gain these Susanoo upgrades on his own, he's had Juugo giving him sage chakra(wasn't juugo also Kyuubi cloaked), and Naruto giving him kyuubi chakra plus sage chakra. I think its rather funny that Sasuke didn't get these powerups after EMS and the Kabuto fight, but after what Hashirama told him and what he seen what Susanoo was able to he was able to alter his Susanoo's appearance. Ill give you that, aesthetically(not size comparable) Sasuke's Susanoo resembles that of Madara's Susanoo. But again it doesn't matter.


Nagato is to powerful, Nagato can just spam CT, BT, Preta, Asura, Animal path, Konan(she is not restricted), CST, CT. Uses his rain jutsu to weigh down the sand and can preta anything(sand is chakra infused without chakra it doesn't move) that the two can throw at him, Although if Gaara was able to send a projectile of sand moving really fast even if he preta pathd it then its velocity would be left unchanged and can injure Nagato.


Oh yea 

Sasuke never formed Susanoo until he was beside Naruto. So you could just misinterpreted that Susanoo was formed before forming with the kyuubi. Susanoo formed around the kyuubi.

crouched over Kurama and Final Stage Susano'o from Madara.

You can see in the bottom panel that Susanoo aura is on Sasuke's left side, and Naruto's aura is active. In the next panel you can that Naruto's aura was the same as his foot and bottom panel showed it as well. While Sasuke's Susanoo aura dissipates, that meant that Sasuke used Susanoo with the Aura of the kyuubi thus forming Susanoo around Kyuubi and since the kyuubi doesn't have a flat nose then it would be impossible to make him have a flat nose. You have to remember this isn't Kyuubis aura, Its Kurama's body, but due to Naruto being related to the sage it gives the kyuubi an alternative appearance.


----------



## RedChidori (Oct 28, 2013)

Is Itachi even a factor in this battle? It seems that he's been forgotten about in this thread lol.


----------



## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

He is never a factor, just a meat shield.

I didn't factor him in yet. but due to this being the battledome I can add him in. His Susanoo will be effective or Amaterasu.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Except for size and destructive capability. Madara only cloaked the kyuubi with his Susanoo. Now we know of course that he doesn't even use that Susanoo anymore and its inferior due to him having legs for speed and then PS for destructive capabilities which Sasuke is far inferior to Madara and his PS.


Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o IchLiebe. Its the only stage large enough to cover a Biju. The manga made it abundantly clear that Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, from the Tengu Mask, the winged arms, the stabilized form, EVERYTHING. And whose to say his Perfect Susano'o is inferior to Madara's anyway, no where in the manga indicated that.


> But its hard to judge size when it is a 2d piece of art of the calibur Naruto is at certain times. The first two scans he posted, you really can't see a size difference between you have nothing to gauge the height. In the first scan you can go according to characters height, of which would make their kyuubi cloaked Susanoo rather small.


Mokujin was as tall as a _crouching_ Kurama. Which is less tall than his full height. Yet its size is also comparable to Perfect Susano'o itself, as shown by my first scan.


> Also notice Sasuke didn't gain these Susanoo upgrades on his own, he's had Juugo giving him sage chakra(wasn't juugo also Kyuubi cloaked), and Naruto giving him kyuubi chakra plus sage chakra. I think its rather funny that Sasuke didn't get these powerups after EMS and the Kabuto fight, but after what Hashirama told him and what he seen what Susanoo was able to he was able to alter his Susanoo's appearance. Ill give you that, aesthetically(not size comparable) Sasuke's Susanoo resembles that of Madara's Susanoo. But again it doesn't matter.


Sasuke doesn't even have his Version 1 Cloak anymore when he achieves Perfect Susano'o. He's floating in Naruto's Biju Mode Cloak-which doesn't give any upgrades other than healing. I haven't said anything on Cursed Seal Susano'o at all, why did you bring it up?



> Nagato is to powerful, Nagato can just spam CT, BT, Preta, Asura, Animal path, Konan(she is not restricted), CST, CT. Uses his rain jutsu to weigh down the sand and can preta anything(sand is chakra infused without chakra it doesn't move) that the two can throw at him, Although if Gaara was able to send a projectile of sand moving really fast even if he preta pathd it then its velocity would be left unchanged and can injure Nagato.


Sasuke was given Perfect Susano'o, that is a power that handily counters all of Nagato's abilities. Perfect Susano'o itself was shown to be on another level than any modern Shinobi barring Biju Mode Naruto. Nagato, while powerful, is clearly outmatched now.



> Oh yea
> 
> Sasuke never formed Susanoo until he was beside Naruto. So you could just misinterpreted that Susanoo was formed before forming with the kyuubi. Susanoo formed around the kyuubi.
> 
> ...


You'd have a point if Naruto's Biju Mode Aura actually gave powerups like that. It doesn't. All Sasuke is is standing as Naruto powers HIMSELF up, not Sasuke since he hasn't transferred any new chakra to him. Not only that, the tengu mask _is the distinct form Perfect Susano'o takes_ when its chakra is stabilized.

Sasuke achieved it on his own. No Version 1 Cloak powering him up. No Jugo transferring his chakra to him. It was all Sasuke who then shaped the Perfect Susano'o around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode.


----------



## The World (Oct 28, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Are you stubborn or just plain dense? PS is the stabilized version of the final susanoo. That's all. Sasuke has shown this.
> 
> Sasuke's PS:
> 
> ...



You do realize Kyuubi is smaller than Madara's PS he used against the 5 kage right? 

The enshrouding shrinks the size of Susano-O to form fit with the Kyuubi


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

The World said:


> You do realize Kyuubi is smaller than Madara's PS he used against the 5 kage right?
> 
> The enshrouding shrinks the size of Susano-O to form fit with the Kyuubi


And you do realize that the Tengu Mask, which Madara's Susano'o possesses, is a trademark for Perfect Susano'o? As well as the shoulder armor? As well as the arm wings?

World, Sasuke possesses Perfect Susano'o and shaped it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode. No more, no less. He's achieved what Madara can do.


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## RedChidori (Oct 28, 2013)

I agree with saiyaman.


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## The World (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you do realize that the Tengu Mask, which Madara's Susano'o possesses, is a trademark for Perfect Susano'o? As well as the shoulder armor? As well as the arm wings?
> 
> World, Sasuke possesses Perfect Susano'o and shaped it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode. No more, no less. He's achieved what Madara can do.



Yet to be seen

Proof is in the panels

And I don't see a mountain dwarfing Perfect Susano-o from Sauce

sooooooooooo


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 28, 2013)

I think we should wait for sasuke PS feats before we start jumping the gun.

Remember what happened with BSM...wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o IchLiebe. Its the only stage large enough to cover a Biju.


Then why did EMS "Final"(whatever its called) covered Kyuubi. That is a false claim that has never been asserted in the manga.



> The manga made it abundantly clear that Sasuke has Perfect Susano'o, from the Tengu Mask, the winged arms, the stabilized form, EVERYTHING. And whose to say his Perfect Susano'o is inferior to Madara's anyway, no where in the manga indicated that.


Where is the winged arms, do you mean shoulder pads?

crouched over Kurama and Final Stage Susano'o from Madara.
Smaller than the 8tails...pathetic in size. Madara's PS would dwarf Sasuke's. Inferior in his mastery. Madara can have clones use high variants of Susanoo as well as having the most destructive Susanoo...Something that Sasuke is lacking.





> Mokujin was as tall as a _crouching_ Kurama. Which is less tall than his full height. Yet its size is also comparable to Perfect Susano'o itself, as shown by my first scan.


 LoL, you see thats where the 2d drawing is getting you. PS is actually considerably bigger than Mokujin, and where is your proof that Mokujin is relatively comparable to legged form Susanoo or Sasuke's so called PS, which has only been shown fused with kyuubi. Look to when Obito threw them both in the ground, there is a mokijin there that is absolutely monstrous compared to the kyuubi and Sasuke's Susanoo.





> Sasuke doesn't even have his Version 1 Cloak anymore when he achieves Perfect Susano'o. He's floating in Naruto's Biju Mode Cloak-which doesn't give any upgrades other than healing. I haven't said anything on Cursed Seal Susano'o at all, why did you bring it up?


Yet all the other rookies where enveloped in a higher form of the cloak, Sasuke just can't be altered like the others because as Naruto when they achieved kyuubi transformation the kyuubi altered their clothing with his Aura just as he did Naruto and Minato...bu Sasuke has his own power source and is own Aura so it wouldn't change his appearance as much as the other rookies. But Im not arguing that. He hasn't shown to use PS by himself. We haven't seen this so called PS alone so we can't gauge it. Just as when people thought that when he recovered from the transplant that he will have a stronger Susanoo and even when he got EMS and was shown people still suggested that he had a stronger variant but we could use it in the battledome because he hadn't shown any abilities or even its appearance(size) at that point. Now we can probably discuss this in further detail in a couple of weeks.

Curse seal is a form of a power source, it is senjutsu chakra.





> Sasuke was given Perfect Susano'o, that is a power that handily counters all of Nagato's abilities. Perfect Susano'o itself was shown to be on another level than any modern Shinobi barring Biju Mode Naruto. Nagato, while powerful, is clearly outmatched now.


 How? Show me some fucking scans of this legendary Sasuke Uchiha's Perfect Susanoo. You neg rep me then come in and spill this bullshit. Madara'a...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara'a...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara'a...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara'a...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's...Madara's Perfect Susanoo is...Madara's. What is so hard about not giving all Uchiha's the same feat as the others? What do yall not grasp about that concept? We compare not share.





> You'd have a point if Naruto's Biju Mode Aura actually gave powerups like that. It doesn't. All Sasuke is is standing as Naruto powers HIMSELF up, not Sasuke since he hasn't transferred any new chakra to him. Not only that, the tengu mask _is the distinct form Perfect Susano'o takes_ when its chakra is stabilized.


 Whatever, I done proved you wrong. Just look at the page, if you can't discern the contents then that's your problem.





> Sasuke achieved it on his own. No Version 1 Cloak powering him up. No Jugo transferring his chakra to him. It was all Sasuke who then shaped the Perfect Susano'o around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode.


And what are its abilities then? What are Sasuke Perfect Susanoo's abilities?

Oh yea, Madara's can use jutsu and perform handseals.


----------



## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And you do realize that the Tengu Mask(lol worthy), which Madara's Susano'o possesses, is a trademark for Perfect Susano'o? As well as the shoulder armor(lol worthy)? As well as the arm wings(lol worthy)?
> 
> World, Sasuke possesses Perfect Susano'o and shaped it around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode. No more, no less. He's achieved what Madara can do.



Madara's has four arms, and is considerably large(remarkable_ as well as destructive(remarkable) and can use handseals(remarkable I know).


He achieved what Madara can do when he cast his first katon...whats your point? I guess since Itachi achieved what Madara can do...Itachi has perfect Susanoo.

Defense doesn't make the warrior, offense does. Sasuke's lack defense and offense, it is quite pathetic to begin with.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

The World said:


> Yet to be seen
> 
> Proof is in the panels
> 
> ...




The only reason why its not dwarfing a mountain is because its shaped around Naruto's Biju Sage Mode.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 28, 2013)

The World said:


> Yet to be seen
> 
> Proof is in the panels
> 
> ...



PS is the stabilized susanoo, which Sasuke has. That's all PS has been referenced to be. 



IchLiebe said:


> Then why did EMS "Final"(whatever its called) covered Kyuubi. That is a false claim that has never been asserted in the manga.
> 
> Where is the winged arms, do you mean shoulder pads?
> 
> ...



You're hopeless. The proof is right in the panels yet all you do is spew nonsense upon nonsense. Madara wrapped his PS armor around Kurama. Sasuke does the same and the armor is identical yet Sasuke doesn't have PS.

Ignorance at its finest.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 28, 2013)

WTF. Are you blind vegeta? Seriously.


You say the proof is in the panels...then say that Madara's PS enveloped the kyuubi...when that wasn't PS but a form Sasuke shown after awakening from the transplant.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Then why did EMS "Final"(whatever its called) covered Kyuubi. That is a false claim that has never been asserted in the manga.


Except it didn't. Madara leaped up to block the reflected Bijudama with his Final Stage Susano'o and the Bijudama exploded, then Madara shaped his Perfect Susano'o around Kurama.


> Where is the winged arms, do you mean shoulder pads?


The Winged arms are coming right out of the shoulder pads, which are also a trait of Perfect Susano'o.



> also a trait of Perfect Susano'o.
> Smaller than the 8tails...pathetic in size. Madara's PS would dwarf Sasuke's. Inferior in his mastery. Madara can have clones use high variants of Susanoo as well as having the most destructive Susanoo...Something that Sasuke is lacking. LoL, you see thats where the 2d drawing is getting you. PS is actually considerably bigger than Mokujin, and where is your proof that Mokujin is relatively comparable to legged form Susanoo or Sasuke's so called PS, which has only been shown fused with kyuubi. Look to when Obito threw them both in the ground, there is a mokijin there that is absolutely monstrous compared to the kyuubi and Sasuke's Susanoo.Yet all the other rookies where enveloped in a higher form of the cloak, Sasuke just can't be altered like the others because as Naruto when they achieved kyuubi transformation the kyuubi altered their clothing with his Aura just as he did Naruto and Minato...bu Sasuke has his own power source and is own Aura so it wouldn't change his appearance as much as the other rookies. But Im not arguing that. He hasn't shown to use PS by himself. We haven't seen this so called PS alone so we can't gauge it. Just as when people thought that when he recovered from the transplant that he will have a stronger Susanoo and even when he got EMS and was shown people still suggested that he had a stronger variant but we could use it in the battledome because he hadn't shown any abilities or even its appearance(size) at that point. Now we can probably discuss this in further detail in a couple of weeks.


IchLiebe, Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is FUCKING SHAPED AROUND NARUTO'S BIJU SAGE MODE! What the fuck don't you get about that?! Seriously, do you have a disconnect between that? 

He has shown Perfect Susano'o on his own. He lost his version 1 cloak, the power Naruto transferred over to him. He's just floating in the Biju Mode aura, which doesn't automatically power you up, only the Konoha 11 got it since they still retained the Version 1 Cloak.


> Curse seal is a form of a power source, it is senjutsu chakra. How? Show me some fucking scans of this legendary Sasuke Uchiha's Perfect Susanoo. You neg rep me then come in and spill this bullshit.


Since the scans are already shown and you have a serious disconnect. Perfect Susano'o can mold around a Biju, we saw that when Madara himself did it. Its near fucking identical. You seriously do not grasp that the only reason why we haven't seen Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o sans the shaping around Kurama is because its shaped around Kurama.


> What is so hard about not giving all Uchiha's the same feat as the others? What do yall not grasp about that concept? We compare not share. Whatever, I done proved you wrong. Just look at the page, if you can't discern the contents then that's your problem.And what are its abilities then? What are Sasuke Perfect Susanoo's abilities?


Why don't you look at the page and evidence? Sasuke achieved Perfect Susano'o (with the manga saying its the exact same fucking thing Madara does) and you again, say he doesn't have it or only attribute it to Naruto despite his lack of the Version 1 Cloak. You haven't proven me wrong, you're just refusing to see the evidence in front of your eyes.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 28, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> WTF. Are you blind vegeta? Seriously.
> 
> 
> You say the proof is in the panels...then say that Madara's PS enveloped the kyuubi...when that wasn't PS but a form Sasuke shown after awakening from the transplant.



My god. 

So tell me, when did this form of susanoo:



Have traits like a tengu nose, a tengu mask, and square shoulder blades that this form of susanoo that Sasuke used to wrap around Kurama has?



Are you so ignorant that you can't see the difference between the two or realize that the susanoo in the latter scan shares distinctive traits with Madara's stabilized susanoo like the square shoulder blades, the tengu nose, the tengu mask, etc, etc?

Stabilized PS armor:



Stabilized PS armor:



They're exactly the same.

God, why am I arguing with a hopeless child.  And I can tell you're pretty mad now seeing as you negged me over such a petty little thing like my name.


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## Krippy (Oct 28, 2013)

just wanted to add that Sasuke didn't have the V1 cloak in chapter 651

[1,2]

All he has at that point is Juugo's sage chakra which he'll most likely be able to use on his own soon


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

Krippy said:


> just wanted to add that Sasuke didn't have the V1 cloak in chapter 651
> 
> [1,2]
> 
> All he has at that point is Juugo's sage chakra which he'll most likely be able to use on his own soon


Uh he shouldn't have Jugo's Sage Chakra since Jugo was knocked out too and we didn't get the Perfect Susano'o Biju Sage Mode with Curse Mark markings.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 28, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Uh he shouldn't have Jugo's Sage Chakra since Jugo was knocked out too and we didn't get the Perfect Susano'o Biju Sage Mode with Curse Mark markings.



I think he's talking about right before they were knocked out. Basically when Sasuke was still using his legged susanoo and Naruto his BM shroud to attack Obito.


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## pato454 (Oct 28, 2013)

nagato solos, Sasuke PS isnt Madara PS


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 28, 2013)

pato454 said:


> nagato solos, Sasuke PS isnt Madara PS


Why shouldn't it be powerscaled? He achieved the exact same things and the exact same state that Madara did. Nagato can't solo anymore.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 29, 2013)

Powerscaled? Are you fucking serious? That is why I negged you, for spouting shit like that.

Vegeta- Madara did not use perfect Susanoo when he enveloped the kyuubi, you provided the scan. :rofl


Saiya don't post on my visitor message about a topic onhand, especially since i can't reply. I didn't revenge rep, I was going to neg rep you then I decided to debate first to see if you would concede..you didn't so i negged you.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 29, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Vegeta- *Madara did not use perfect Susanoo when he enveloped the kyuubi, you provided the scan. *:rofl



Yep that proves you're hopeless. He didn't use it despite it having the same armor and same mountain cutting power. But nope, he didn't use it. :rofl

Why don't you tell me what form of susanoo he used then? Did his susanoo pre-stabilization have square shoulder blades, a tengu nose, a tengu mask, and chakra sabres (mind you the ones his PS uses and the ones his other susanoo forms use have a distinct difference)? Not that I can recall, so please tell me what form of susanoo he used to wrap around Kurama if it wasn't PS? 



> Saiya don't post on my visitor message about a topic onhand, especially since i can't reply. I didn't revenge rep, I was going to neg rep you then I decided to debate first to see if you would concede..you didn't so i negged you.



That's an even more childish reason to neg somebody.  Oh he didn't concede so I negged him. I mean really? -_-


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 29, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Powerscaled? Are you fucking serious? That is why I negged you, for spouting shit like that.
> 
> Vegeta- Madara did not use perfect Susanoo when he enveloped the kyuubi, you provided the scan. :rofl


So you're now claiming its not Perfect Susano'o around Kurama?! Despite the tengu mask, despite the shoulder pads, despite the winged arms, despite the Katanas that are Perfect Susano'o's weapons? And yes, it is powerscaling since its the exact same jutsu.



> Saiya don't post on my visitor message about a topic onhand, especially since i can't reply. I didn't revenge rep, I was going to neg rep you then I decided to debate first to see if you would concede..you didn't so i negged you.


It is a revenge neg since I already negged you first. You're supposed to wait until I'm off your wall before negging back.


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## Rocky (Oct 29, 2013)

Who cares about negs. 

They don't hurt from anyone here (usually).


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## pato454 (Oct 29, 2013)

anyway if sasuke has the PS, Rinnegan > EMS, and Edo Itachi > Gaara so they still win

besides nagato can solo via gedo soul dragon, and has big chances to win against them alone even without the dragon


----------



## johnsuwey (Oct 29, 2013)

Ninja Art said:


> *Location*: Samurai Bridge(where Sasuke and Danzo fought)
> *Knowledge*: Manga
> *Mindset*:Bloodlust
> *Distance*: 20 meters
> ...



Gaara is at a bad location, but Gaara + Sasuke can move off the bridge and go to the forest.


There Gaara could likely take out Edo Itachi, and seal him.  Problem is I don't see what either could do to Nagato.  Once Nagato wins, then he helps dispatch of the other.


----------



## DCI Kurusu (Oct 29, 2013)

Listen, bloodlusted Nagato is top tier, up there with Rinnegan Madara and SM Hashirama.

His full set of abilities is fucking monstrous. Gedou Mazou has enough strength to blow giant butterfly Choji + dad a good 100 meters from just the air waves produced by its roar. CT can hold Kurama's full body mass a good 2 km up in the air. Full-force ST flattens cities. He can use all these abilities in quick conjunction.

Sasuke, even with a PS, is not going to live through that. Madara got pulled out of his Susano'o by a bit of sand. A force strong enough to directly oppose gravity and pull thousands of tonnes of ground up into the clouds is easily enough to bring Sasuke out of his PS.

Oh, and Sasuke will destroy it? Good luck when you're getting battered by a city-flattening ST that has a brief recharge time, as well as Gedou Mazou statue.

Do I even need to mention that Nagato can dispel Amaterasu using a weak ST or has the strongest summon in the series? Sure, it can be burnt down by black flames, but a bloodlusted Nagato isn't letting that happen so easily. If the battle goes beyond the range of PS, Sasuke is dead immediately. Speed feats to catch BM Naruto and Bee, an arsenal of summons, rockets, lasers, gravity manipulation capable of turning Kakashi into a bitch, weak ST that takes out Choji's dad in one and blows boss summons a good 50 meters.

Nagato win high-diff. That's assuming that Sasuke actually has a strong PS, although there is an astounding lack of feats to suggest that. ATM, all people are doing is assuming.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 29, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> So you're now claiming its not Perfect Susano'o around Kurama?! Despite the tengu mask, despite the shoulder pads, despite the winged arms, despite the Katanas that are Perfect Susano'o's weapons? And yes, it is powerscaling since its the exact same jutsu.


 Uh yea. Stop kidding yourself. Even if that was perfect Susanoo of which there isn't, what the fuck are its abilities? You can't powerscale because then we should say Sasuke can drop meteors now, or use big ass katons. Everyone's Susanoo is different so you can't gauge Sasuke's by Madara's feats. 

Yet still lacks feats and destructive capablity. Can you show me where Madara needed/used Perfect Susanoo to envelop the Kyuubi.

-snip-



> Yep that proves you're hopeless. He didn't use it despite it having the same armor and same mountain cutting power. But nope, he didn't use it.


 Madara's armor is significantly bigger than Sasuke's so not the same armor, and where is this "mountain cutting power" that Sasuke shown?





> Why don't you tell me what form of susanoo he used then? Did his susanoo pre-stabilization have square shoulder blades, a tengu nose, a tengu mask, 0and chakra sabres (mind you the ones his PS uses and the ones his other susanoo forms use have a distinct difference)? Not that I can recall, so please tell me what form of susanoo he used to wrap around Kurama if it wasn't PS?


EMS Final Susanoo or perfect Susanoo, but we don't know what Sasuke's Susanoo has so we can't just give it to him and powerscale. Now if the OP would've specified then yes he would be able to use due to stipulations. If it is Perfect Susanoo and we actually agree that it is, you do realize that it is still inferior to his previous one(The one Obito threw down) due to its lack of feats.

Oh yea, Madara's has; 4 arms(even merged with kyuubi), has 2 Faces, and is atleast a mile tall with mountain busting feats. So actually they don't look the same. 

You people keep blathering on about this perfect Susanoo that has yet to be shown by Sasuke and if he has, it is still featless.

And you all have the gall to actually believe in the bullshit.


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## sanninme rikudo (Oct 29, 2013)

how dare you guys put full healthy bloodlusted nagato in a match and then if thats not worst u bring itachi in this aswell nagato solos all itachi has to do is just put up yata mirror shield him and nagato and GF grave


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## IchLiebe (Oct 29, 2013)

Oh I see the users with such zeal have yet to respond to my post. Oh yea thats right they are making up feats.


Lets say Sasuke has Madara's PS...YM blocks all thing(lol)


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## Nikushimi (Oct 29, 2013)

RedChidori said:


> Is Itachi even a factor in this battle? It seems that he's been forgotten about in this thread lol.



I'm actually more surprised to see Gaara in this fight; he's completely outclassed by every other combatant, including Edo Itachi.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 29, 2013)

Actually not, Gaara is the only one who stops this from being a stomp.


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## Nikushimi (Oct 29, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Actually not, Gaara is the only one who stops this from being a stomp.



Gaara is completely worthless against both Nagato and Edo Itachi.


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## Jagger (Oct 29, 2013)

Gaara gets eliminated by Nagato and gets a high-difficulty loss from Edo Itachi.


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## IchLiebe (Oct 30, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Gaara is completely worthless against both Nagato and Edo Itachi.



Gaara knows to avoid eye contact, Sasuke gives him knowledge. Then can turtle up and grind sand, then proceeds to launch wave after wave of sand.


Nagato- If Gaara uses sand rain then the velocity would still be unchanged by preta's effects, only ST is going to block it, then Gaara can just spam it. CT-Pulls himself down continuously with sand.


Itachi- Genjutsu won't be a factor due to knowledge from Sasuke, Amaterasu has prep and can be felt by non-sensors(pressure change) and Gaara has the reactions to be able to block it then can go on to throw the flaming sand back at Itachi. 

Susanoo gets enveloped by sand, Itachi gets pulled out and crushed then sealed, YM won't repel the sand, maybe if the sand attacked but its just enveloping, not to mention YM didn't redirect none chakra entities such as Kirin.

CQC- Gaara would wreck Itachis' shit in taijutsu.



Itachi's fucking horrible compared to high-tiers such as Nagato, Gaara(leader of the allied army), and Sasuke. The only advantage he has is being edo tensei'd.


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## Kazekage94 (Oct 31, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Gaara knows to avoid eye contact, Sasuke gives him knowledge. Then can turtle up and grind sand, then proceeds to launch wave after wave of sand.
> 
> 
> Nagato- If Gaara uses sand rain then the velocity would still be unchanged by preta's effects, only ST is going to block it, then Gaara can just spam it. CT-Pulls himself down continuously with sand.
> ...


Thank you !!!!


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## IchLiebe (Nov 1, 2013)

Ur welcome, Sasuke and Itachi are outclassed here but here is a definitive strategy.


Sasuke starts use Amaterasu to cover the bridge while Gaara retreats into the forest and starts to grind sand, puts a sand eye over the bridge, and controls partial amounts of sand to send sand to help Sasuke. Then he closes the distance once he's grinded enough sand. Sasuke in the meanwhile is spamming Amaterasu and Susanoo arrows. 

Itachi is forced back by the initial Amaterasu spam while Nagato preta's incoming missiles, and S/T the sand. Nagato pulls Sasuke but the sand catches it. He then lasers Sasuke but its partially blocked by skeletal Susanoo and sand so not much damage goes through. Itachi jumps to the side of the bridge and flanks Sasuke and throws Magatamas(blocked by Susanoo) YM blocks Amaterasu(but it starts to burn through) Itachi drops Susanoo and then uses Amaterasu on Sasuke Susanoo. Sasuke jumps of the bridge, Itachi tries to follow but Gaara caught him with his sand coffin since he was behind Itachi after returning to the battlefield. Nagato use a big S/T which destroys most of the bridge and Itachi(so he isn't sealed and regens), Gaara blocks with alot of sand. Nagato summons gedo Mazo, he then summons his bird and takes flight, while summoning the crab, chameleon, cerebrus, the Rhino, and all his other summons(which does include Konan but Im not going to add her due to it being a stomp). 

Gaara buries Chameleon first chance he gets, Sasuke shoots Cerebrus, Itachi preps Amaterasu. Nagato pulls Gaara but Gaara catches himself, Itachi catches Gaara with Amaterasu, Sand armor is gone. Nagato then follows up with Asura abilities in CQC while Itachi is swinging Totsuka at Gaara, Nagato then uses CST to kill Gaara. Sasuke finishes all the summons and pierces Itachi's Susanoo from behind while he was busy dealing with Gaara but he is disintegrated due to CST. Nagato then runs while using Preta path to absorb ninjutsu and chakra. Itachi reforms then diverts Sasuke while Nagato starts prepping CT, which seals Itachi and Sasuke. 


Nagato...GG


I would say without a meatshield Nagato wouldn't take this.

If Gaara was allowed Partial Transformation he could use Wind: Great breakthrough to increase the velocity of his sand bullets to kill Nagato because the only defense would be S/T.


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## Jagger (Nov 1, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> Nagato- If Gaara uses sand rain then the velocity would still be unchanged by preta's effects, only ST is going to block it, then Gaara can just spam it. CT-Pulls himself down continuously with sand.


You are wrong. Preta Path nullifies Gaara's sand as it's controlled and guided by chakra, something absorbable by Nagato. The power behind ST varies depending on the amount of chakra put into the technique. One single ST from Deva Path after fighting the village and Naruto send back the 3 Boss sized summons of Naruto like nothing and even broke their bones. Gaara isn't just handling something more pwoerful than that.


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## IchLiebe (Nov 1, 2013)

But it isn't made of chakra. Look at it like a bullet that can be guided, but once it gets hit by preta path it only loses its guided ability not its terminal velocity.


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## Ersa (Nov 1, 2013)

Gaara is a non-factor here, he's the only one who is around your standard Kage in strength. Both Itachi and Nagato would curb-stomp him, low difficulty at worst. However at this stage I see Sasuke as in another tier when compared to Nagato and Edo Itachi. Perfect Susanoo should wipe them out with Enton swords/arrows. I doubt CT will be enough as Sasuke packs enough firepower to destroy it, CST can be tanked via Perfect Susanoo and Itachi's Susanoo gets flattened. However Nagato still puts up a hell of a fight and with Itachi backing him up they can hold the Sauce off for a bit.

Sasuke high difficulty, Gaara probably dies in the crossfire or something (it'd be like putting Neji in the Gokage fight).


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## Garcher (Nov 1, 2013)

Itachi solos


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## RedChidori (Nov 1, 2013)

Nagato wins this more times than not. I really don't see a way Sasuke and Gaara can beat a bloodlusted Nagato.


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## ARGUS (Dec 4, 2013)

We dnt know sasukes ps properly yet 
However nagato and itachi are an extremely op duo 
Sasuke and gaara can work in sync 
But nagato is too op 
Ppl seem to misunderstand a normal ST by an immobile nagato destroyed a forest 
Imagine his own CST from point blank range 
Or nagato can BT sasuke off his susanoo and soul rip him 

Itachi can take on gaara high diff 
If they fight individually 
Itachi can pull a win quickly and join nagato 
To obliterate sasuke 

Nagato and itachi win mid/high diff


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