# Anyone here play Pokemon Showdown?



## Bringer (Jul 15, 2015)

Link removed

I'm addicted... You can make your dream team with all your dream IVs, EVs, and natures without any of the work 

Here was my latest battle. My opponent forfeited(That unfortunately happens a lot whenever someone is about to lose)


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

I like watching AdamantDitto's Pokemon Showdown Battles playlist because it's funny and entertaining, and I've gotten some ideas for movesets from the random battles they do... tweaked to my liking of course.

I prefer playing the main game myself, like using Pokegen to make Pokemon like you would in Showdown, only at Lv1 and training them up, usually 10-15 levels below the opponents' Pokemon to see how well they do.


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## Bringer (Jul 15, 2015)

I sadly don't have a 3ds, so I can't play any of the newer games. Though even if I did, I'd probably be way too lazy to breed perfect IVs and natures, and then EV train. 



I just wiped a team with just a Gardevoir. Calm Mind ftw.


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## Hydro Spiral (Jul 15, 2015)

Every so often. I prefer to play the actual games and raise Pokemon, but Showdown can make for a good time thanks to 6v6 matchups and the experience of the general playerbase. 

I've used it as a way to test out certain movesets and stat spreads before raising Pokemon in-game too.


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## ~M~ (Jul 15, 2015)

I play a lot of showdown. I have for years. 

It's how I won 80,000 posts and 4million rep here


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

BringerOfChaos said:


> I sadly don't have a 3ds, so I can't play any of the newer games. Though even if I did, I'd probably be way too lazy to breed perfect IVs and natures, and then EV train.
> 
> 
> 
> I just wiped a team with just a Gardevoir. Calm Mind ftw.




I actually don't have X/Y/ORAS either. We rockin' White version up in this bitch.

I use Pokegen along with Action Replay to make the Pokemon I want, with perfect IVs and the EVs/nature/ability/moves I want too. It's really fucking hard to find a battle since there's no online for it anymore.

But I bought Black to trade with myself to evolve some shit, and wound up letting a friend have it on the promise that I could trade with them whenever I wanted. I let them use Pokegen to make an entire team of OU/Uber legendaries with Smogon sets for themselves, and asked them to battle my team consisting of my top 4 favorites (Persian, Mewtwo, Shuckle, Sableye) to see how well they'd do.

I was very pleased with the results.

[YOUTUBE]OEVi4KmeeZM[/YOUTUBE]

Sadly other people were ripping on my friend saying they were bad, when the only mistake they made was not going into Darkrai straight away, but by that point I had an 80% accurate Hypnosis behind a Sub, and Dark Pulse didn't OHKO. The only chance they had of winning was if:

1. The 80% accurate Hypnosis missed
2. Darkrai got a first turn wake up.
3. Dark Pulse crit or flinched or Focus Blast didn't hit

They played pretty well. They just went for Toxic predicting I would U-Turn, to poison whatever came in, and then switched after I set up Sub, because they couldn't touch Persian behind a Sub and they predicted my Persian had Taunt, which would have shut Deoxys-D down completely.

They made the mistake of expecting a standard Persian, which can't do shit lol.


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## Bringer (Jul 15, 2015)

That's one awesome Persian, but I'm pretty sure you could've ended the battle way sooner. Also the hone claw + hypnosis hax is good. I've never thought of that on a Persian. 

Right now I'm working on a Togekiss on Showdown. The moves are

Aura Sphere
Dazzling Gleam
Charge Beam

I'm stuck though because I'm not sure if I want a Serene Grace Air Slash(60% flinch) or a Super Luck Air Cutter(50% chance of critical I believe, even higher chance if I give it an item that boosts chances for critical). My other moves won't really be effected if I go with Super Luck(except Charge Beam, which will be a 70% chance of raising special attack without Serene Grace assuring it every turn)

edit: Togekiss is pretty slow  Might replace Charge Beam with Thunder Wave because Air Slash won't matter if I attack last...


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

Yeah I could have  4 Hone Claws was enough to guarantee an OHKO on Deoxys-D, which was the bulkiest thing there. Each accuracy boost increases the accuracy of a move by roughly 1/3 of its normal accuracy, so one boost makes Hypnosis 79-80 accuracy, which is usable. After 2 boosts it becomes 99 or 100, which is downright nasty. I usually run it with a Truant Durant that has minimum defenses and Entrainment, which is designed to use Entrainment to give Truant to the opponent and then get KO'd, so I can send out Persian and get a free turn to set up a Sub while the opponent loafs around or switches.

I took the risk that Kyogre might have been Scarfed and went for Hone Claws because I had a Sashed Mewtwo in the back. I trained 6 Mewtwo at one time, and this particular set was probably the weirdest one. And I had a Sashed Lv1 Smeargle with Trick Room, Spore, Endeavor, and Bullet Punch, which would have dealt with Kyogre at the very least, and Palkia too if I felt lucky.

I run a ParaFlinch set on my Dunsparce. Not the Coil + Glare + Headbutt/Rock Slide + Roost one. It's Charge Beam + Glare + Rest + Snore, to counter things that can Toxic stall it. It's pretty effective. Thunder Wave + Air Slash is devastating on Togekiss. My Rotom-Fan runs a similar set, but it needs a combination with Confuse Ray to have comparable hax chances to Togekiss.

T-Wave + Air Slash + Roost is pretty staple on a lot of Togekiss, but you can even go Water Pulse to add confusion too. Either that or maybe Nasty Plot or Aura Sphere/Dazzling Gleam.

Charge Beam is very niche (I hate using that word lol). I run it on my Magic Guard Life Orb Alakazam to use against things weakened or anything 4x weak to it, for a free boosty boost. Considering running it on Hydreigon as well, since getting it off on something weakened lets it get to +1 with a Life Orb, which is stronger than Choice Specs and has the freedom to choose other moves, and then have either Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor, then Dark Pulse, and either Flamethrower or Flash Cannon, for Ice and Steel types or Ice and Fairy types. In my case, Flamethrower since it's stronger and I'm playing Gen 5.

The addition of Charge Beam is pretty much the only thing that has me interested in using it, since it's so overused with Specs that it seems boring to me lol.


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## Bringer (Jul 15, 2015)

I was going for special sweeper for my Togekiss. Throw on as much type coverage as possible. It's why I'm reluctant to replace charge beam with Thunder Wave. I could just swap Serene Grace with Super Luck, and then take out all my EVs in speed and use it to bolster my defenses. Since without thunder wave/ or body slam it'd be too slow to flinch abuse, I could just crit abuse...


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

Oh yeah. For a sweeper set, you don't want T-Wave.

Actually you probably would want Nasty Plot over Charge Beam.

Unfortunately Togekiss is kinda slow. Tailwind would really help it.

I didn't even know Air Cutter was special. For the longest time I thought it was physical, with Air Slash being the special one. I just never used it :sanji

It's a shame Togekiss can't learn Draining Kiss. I was going to suggest an Assault Vest Togekiss with max HP and max Def, with Charge Beam, Draining Kiss, Air Slash or Air Cutter, and Aura Sphere. I imagine it would be ridiculously hard to take down.


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## Bringer (Jul 15, 2015)

Scratch Charge Beam... For some reason Togekiss can't learn charge beam on showdown... I don't know why... IT CAN LEARN IT IN THE ACTUAL GAME!


Also, it won't let me pair super luck and air cutter... I don't know why. Showdown must really hate Togekiss or something. Kinda disappointed. Super luck + scope lens + air cutter would crit almost every turn, and give Togekiss other moves a good chance of getting critical damage... But since Showdown ruined this combination I guess I'll go with Serene Grace Togekiss. I guess that makes things less complicated for me.


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

Charge Beam is a TM right? Because it's not saying Togekiss can learn it on Serebii or Smogon from what I see :/

Also I don't think Air Cutter can be paired with Super Luck because Super Luck is a DW ability and Air Cutter requires that Togekiss be transferred over from 4th Gen. Though since I have Pokegen that ain't no problem lol.


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## ~M~ (Jul 15, 2015)

BringerOfChaos said:


> That's one awesome Persian, but I'm pretty sure you could've ended the battle way sooner. Also the hone claw + hypnosis hax is good. I've never thought of that on a Persian.
> 
> Right now I'm working on a Togekiss on Showdown. The moves are
> 
> ...


sigh 

no offense but you guys don't really know much about Pokemon and it's clear :/ 

dazzling gleam: not useful on togekiss against anything, no dragon can touch it anyways 

air slash >>>>>>>>>> air cutter, criticals don't mean much and flinching is 2x essential damage because you attack twice and a critical is 1.5x dam, super luck is a very subpar ability and serene grace is top tier 

Charge beam: it learns nasty plot which is a double boost and is guaranteed, not able to be blocked. 

Togekiss has one moveset: 
Max sp. def max hp 
Air slash 
Aura Sphere or heal bell 
Nasty Plot or thunder wave (body slam even for hitting ground types)
Roost

And it's a sweeper. Sweepers don't have to be fast, that's an illusion. Togekiss can tank anything (even stone edge) and either blast back with a boosted attack or paralyze. 

There's ONE other viable set: 
Max attack 
CHOICE SCARF to solve your speed problems 
Air slash 
Fire Blast 
Aura Sphere
Dazzling Gleam 

But this has more merit in shock/surprise where the former is always good. 

I'm only ranting because togekiss is one of my favorite mons, used him all of gen 4 and 5, fairy is my favorite type. 






And of course the wonderful thing about pokemon is you _can_ run anything you want, if you want it and you feel it works then you have to go for it, but there are just some strategies that are objectively superior from extensive testing.

@justin togekiss doesn't need assault vest with its stats and roost would always be superior, what you would have is a dead weight pocket monster


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

I'm never of the mind that a Pokemon has only one moveset, unless it's something like Unown. I like to run variations because running the standard sets is not only boring, but also leaves you subject to getting predicted. Not running standard is why my Persian was able to accomplish something.

Even Smogon has more than one listed set for Togekiss.

I mean, I know Pokemon. While I'm saying all these possible sets on Togekiss, the only Togekiss I've trained so far on Soul Silver has:
Air Slash
Thunder Wave
Roost
Aura Sphere

I mean I obviously know what its best set is. That was decided without looking up Smogon (I don't follow them anyway, but I do check them out for loose guidelines). It's a good set... pretty much what everyone and their grandmother runs on it.

But while I know that and while I've done that set before, I don't like running the same boring shit as everyone else most of the time. Not when I hate playing in a meta where everyone acts like they know what the opponent is gonna do because everyone runs the same sets on the same 20 Pokemon, and not if there are other possible strategies for the Pokemon.

Assault Vest would work great because Togekiss has the natural special bulk to run a physically defensive set (it's on Smogon's page for it if that's anything to go by). The problem is Togekiss neither learns Charge Beam to let it boost with an Assault Vest and it doesn't learn Draining Kiss to help it heal, so that's why I didn't suggest it.

There's a guy named Rayzoir who runs really weird sets that pretty often work out because they're so weird the opponent falls for them because they over predict right into it. He had an Assault Vest Kyogre because, as he said, "Because Primal Kyogre is overrated as fuck". And because with an Assault Vest you can make Kyogre so specially immortal that it literally just absorbs Thunders, or make it overall bulky with a Bold nature instead. It doesn't have to be Scarfed or Specs or Primal, even if those are arguably "best".

Though actually Assault Vest Kyogre is overall much more bulky than Primal Kyogre with the same healing options. The trade-off is that Kyogre wouldn't hit as hard. If both have max HP and max SpAtk, an AV Kyogre does noticeably more to Primal Kyogre with Thunder than Primal Kyogre does to AV Kyogre with Thunder. Even if it had Calm Mind and won the speed tie turn 1 with it, it would have to win the speed tie every turn to win. So, there's actually merit to an AV Kyogre.

Anything relatively bulky with decent moves can run AV. The problem is, it's not as bulky as Kyogre and doesn't have recovery attacking moves like Conkeldurr. Though that hasn't stopped people from running AV Tyranitar, which even without SpDef investment, can swallow a Focus Blast from a Mega Alakazam and OHKO with an uninvested Crunch.


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## ~M~ (Jul 15, 2015)

Assult vest on naturally specially defensive pokemon is diminished returns and there are calcs on smogon to prove that; furthermore the utility of roost is tier0. 

Secondly tyranitar survives focus blast with AV in sand because sand boosts rock's defense. 

So... Not sure what you're getting at.


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## Satsuki (Jul 15, 2015)

Showdown was a favourite of teh gamblers 
I play it sometimes now, I was trying to build a team, but I've mostly been doing randoms


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

Em Senpai said:


> Assult vest on naturally specially defensive pokemon is diminished returns and there are calcs on smogon to prove that; furthermore the utility of roost is tier0.
> 
> Secondly tyranitar survives focus blast with AV in sand because sand boosts rock's defense.
> 
> So... Not sure what you're getting at.




It's still the same percentage boost.. A move that would do 80% does about 53%, and a move that would do 50% would only do 33%. SpDef value itself doesn't really matter with percentage based things. While reducing 80% to 53% seems bigger than from 50% to 33%, because you're reducing more HP you'd lose, it doesn't change the fact that it's a 2HKO, while reducing damage from 51% to 33% turns a 2HKO into a 3HKO or 4HKO. One could say it works better on specially defensive Pokemon this way, in terms of taking special hits (because that's what AV is for).

It's just like a Def+ nature seems better on something with high Def, because it means a bigger stat increase, but it's still only a 10% difference on the damage, whether it's a physical or special boost.

However, EVs are different since they're not percentage based. Max HP EVs are wasted on Chansey/Blissey because their HP is already so high. It only boosts it by about 10%, while EVs in Def literally boost the stat by 100%, making Def investment 10x better than HP investment, and EVs in SpDef mean a 25% boost.

And yeah I know that sand boosts the SpDef of Rock Pokemon by 50%. It's common knowledge by now. Still a lot of T-Tar are one-shotted by Focus Blast because it's still x4 damage. Against a lot of threats that have Focus Blast, an Assault Vest allows a T-Tar to survive even Focus Blast with just max HP while allowing it to invest in other things, and even uninvested, Crunch OHKO's the threats that can carry it, like Mega Gengar or Mega Alakazam which hit like trucks.

It might seem wasted because sand already boosts SpDef, but it's actually better than +2 to SpDef. +2 merely increases the multiplier from x1.5 to x2, meaning every time you boost it, the overall increase gets lower and lower. However if you combine sand with an Assault Vest, it actually multiplies it by x2.25, because those boosts stack, so it makes T-Tar a good AV candidate because it compliments the sand so well.

On Togekiss it's not that great because it doesn't have a way to recover and it wouldn't hit as hard since its SpAtk is lower than T-Tar's Atk, and it needs Def investment while T-Tar can get by with just HP and Atk investment.

I mean it's great for Pokemon like Conkeldurr, especially since it has good Def without investment to compliment it, but it can work on Pokemon who have higher SpDef too. It just makes them even bigger special walls. That is if they have good powerful/supportive attacking moves & offensive stats.


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

Speaking of Showdown though, someone found an alternative to the Funbro set.



Fun waifu


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## ~M~ (Jul 15, 2015)

Justin you've listed all the merits of assult vest I'm familiar with: it's a tier 1 item it's just not good on togekiss is all. Nor would charge beam if it had it. Togekiss has nasty plot, thunderwave, roose, healbell, wish, that's just crippling it. 

However I disagree that it's beneficial for MOST specially bulky pokemon. It's not even very good on goodra. It's good for _making up for _ sp def on things like tangrowth slowbro and as you said conkeldurr. Tyranitar is very bad in the current meta imo. 

And actually I believe on chansey because of eviolite the HP evs are superior to sp.def evs but feel free to look it up since it's small difference.


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## Jυstin (Jul 15, 2015)

I'd actually done the calculations on Chansey before. I'll do them again before finishing this post because I honestly forget. I know even on Smogon they also have it 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpDef. Though if you want to max out defense, you go max HP and max Def, and if you wanna max out SpDef, you go max HP and max SpDef. Chansey's just perfect for maxing both defenses out since boosting its HP is such a small % difference.

But yeah you're right. Assault Vest is mainly for buffering up Pokemon with good physical bulk and offenses and bad special bulk. It'll still reduce the damage from special hits the same percentage on a Pokemon with bad special bulk as one with good special bulk, but it's the ones with bad special bulk that need it more. Using it on Mons with good special bulk is just for if you're trying to recreate Voldemort so your opponent has to take out its horcruxes before it can actually die 

For Chansey, its normal HP is 641. EVs boost it by 63, which is a 9.8% boost. Since that applies to both defenses, it gives an overall 19.6% boost.

Chansey's normal Defense is 46. Increasing that by 63 is a 136.9% boost.

Chansey's normal SpDef is 246. Increasing it by 63 is a 25..6% boost.

This part gets tricky though. It sounds like Def and SpDef is better, since that gives an overall 162.5% boost overall, and the max HP and Def gives a max 156.5% boost. But the HP might give a 9.8% boost to SpDef, and a bigger boost to Def because it's at 136.9%, which would actually be a 13.4% boost. That would make it an overall 160.1%.

I don't actually know if that's right. But that is how much the EVs boost Chansey's raw HP(9.8%), Def(136.9%), and SpDef(25.6%) separately.


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## Shanks (Mar 23, 2016)

PlayRoom VR game.


First time i beat a 1900+ in random. Top 400 baby


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## Felt (Mar 29, 2016)

I play OU sometimes, I find it a bit annoying because people forfeit too easily.  If you have a Pokemon that can take a lot of hits and can recover health (Manaphy ftw) then people quit.  You get the win, but it's annoying if you want to test things out.


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## Saru (Mar 30, 2016)

i play Showdown, BoC. OU tier.

meet me in the streets, punk.


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## Stunna (Nov 7, 2016)

1v1 me in Gen 1 Random Battle


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