# Admiral vs. Schibukai



## Auzzie93 (Nov 18, 2013)

Schibukai
- Moria
- Doflamingo (post skip)
- Hancock
- Jinbe
- Crocodile
- Mihawk
- Kuma (Brain version)

Admirals:
- Kizaru
- Fujitora
*- Akainu*

Location: Marineford

Mindset: Bloodlusted

Distance: 100 m

Restrictions: none


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## Rob (Nov 18, 2013)

Mihawk could most definitely hold one of them. 

Assuming that all Admiral are roughly around the same level, I don't why the other Admiral couldn't take it after some time. 

I do think it would take Mid-diff for Dofla. Adding Hancock and Kuma (Though they are shit compared to an Admiral, individually) would be rather annoying. 

I still don't see what stops the Admiral not fighting Mihawk from one or two-shotting the warlords that aren't Dofla. 

But then again, with all the crazy abilities of the Warlords, all in one, I'm not 100% sure. 

For example, 
Say Dofla is able to hold an admiral, for even just a few seconds, Moria could attempt to pull off the shadow, while people like Law and Kuma prepare an attack. 

*sigh* 

These match-ups are always so iffy since there are tons of different possibilities. 

Gut tells me that the Admirals would take it in the end. 

But dem abilities doe 

*Note: *I'm confident that no Admiral could one-shot any of the warlords listed. (Assuming they aren't using their most powerful move right off the bat)

Croc did survive a Punch from the man with one of the, if not, the greatest strength feats. 
Jimbei, though he was near death after a few hits, did pretty good against Akainu's attacks for someone of his level. 

I'm still curious as to what Hancock's durability is


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## Fiddlesticks (Nov 18, 2013)

I have to give it to the Warlords.

Mihawk is probably just slightly below the admirals, they're not getting out of a fight with Mihawk without getting pretty cut up.

I feel if Doflamingo and Kuma went straight defensive, they could distract one of the admirals for more than enough time for Mihawk, with the support for the rest of the fodderlords, to take out the other.

It'd be a bloody fight either way, extreme-diff either way.

But I gotta give it to the  warlords


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## Zorofangirl24 (Nov 18, 2013)

Handcock stalemate Fujitora, Mihawk beats Kizaru, Fujitora destroyed 2v1
/game


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## eyeknockout (Nov 18, 2013)

mihawk beats kizaru, dofla and hancock beat fujitora


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## Lawliet (Nov 18, 2013)

Warlords take this without a doubt.


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## Halcyon (Nov 18, 2013)

Mihawk is roughly admiral level, and there are few low top tiers aside from him in the mix with the Warlords....

But if it's only those listed, I think the admiral duo could take it with very high difficulty.


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## Dunno (Nov 18, 2013)

Moria collects the shadows of the others and inserts them into Mihawk. Nightmare Mihawk GG. 

If they're not allowed to do that, it becomes a bit harder. It basically comes down to if Mihawk can beat his opponent before the other admiral beats the rest of the Shichibukai. I don't think the rest of the Shichibukai has enough firepower to put down an admiral, but they should be able to damage him a bit at least, especially Fujitora. Since I think Fujitora is a bit weaker than the admiral trio, I think the Shichibukai can take this.


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## Mihawk (Nov 18, 2013)

The Warlords destroy the Admirals here.

Mihawk defeats Kizaru high-extreme difficulty. By the end of his fight, Mihawk would be pretty roughed up, so he might not be able to do much to assist the other Warlords.

However, the remaining Warlords, with their numbers and powers, could take out Fujitora.


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## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Kizaru can beat Mihawk with extreme difficulty. While Kizaru is fighting Mihawk, Fujitora will have the other Warlords to deal with. While he's well above them individually, I'm not entirely convinced he can deal with that much hax and firepower at once. I'm gonna say he loses with high-extreme difficulty. Then, the moderately exhausted Warlords help Mihawk overwhelm Kizaru.

Overall, Warlords win.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 19, 2013)

Nightmare Mihawk GG.


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## Shanks (Nov 19, 2013)

Moria is a non factor, but it would be ridiculous to think that Joker, Hancock, Kuma, Croc & Jimbe combine can't win against 1 Admiral. We saw what Croc could do to a distracted Akainu. Imagine what happen if Kuma jumps in and send Akainu's leg flying, then Jimbe blast his head with sea water, follow by Hancock turning him to stone.


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## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

sparklingwater said:


> Moria is a non factor, but it would be ridiculous to think that Joker, Hancock, Kuma, Croc & Jimbe combine can't win against 1 Admiral. We saw what Croc could do to a distracted Akainu.* Imagine what happen if Kuma jumps in and send Akainu's leg flying*, then Jimbe blast his head with sea water, follow by Hancock turning him to stone.



He just reforms them. 

And Sakazuki isn't in this matchup.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Leaning towards the Warlords, but the Admirals might be able to take it if Fujitora shows more feats. Btw, unless you're talking about a shadowed powered Mihawk, in a 1 on 1 fight, Mihawk is not beating Kizaru.


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Leaning towards the Warlords, but the Admirals might be able to take it if Fujitora shows more feats. Btw, unless you're talking about a shadowed powered Mihawk, in a 1 on 1 fight, Mihawk is not beating Kizaru.



Oh, Mihawk does beat both Kizaru and Fuji  in a one vs one.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Oh, both Kizaru and Fuji do beat Mihawk  in a one vs one.


There, fixed.


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## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

Warlords without a doubt. Mihawk handles 1 admiral, likely Kizaru, and I don't think Fujitora is powerful enough to handle all the haxx the rest brings to the table, especially when he's not a logia.

The second scenario is just dumb.


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> There, fixed.



You're a disgrace. I demand that you remove Mihawk's pic from your sig and avatar this very moment!


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## Katou (Nov 19, 2013)

Warlords should win. . if it was a Gang


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You're a disgrace. I demand that you remove Mihawk's pic from your sig and avatar this very moment!


No...I don't think I will...
Lets review their feats.
Mihawk: threw a slash against Whitebeard, which got blocked by Jozu. Got held off by Vista, who fought on even grounds with him for some period of time. Shanks and Mihawk used to duel years ago, but we have no idea how strong either of them were, and it's not likely their strength stayed the same. His best feat thus far is splitting an iceberg in half from a distance.
Kizaru: hax DF (didn't get injured when Whitebeard slashed him with his bisento) which allows him to spam lasers from above and can uproot a mangrove with a casual kick. Fought with Rayleigh, and even though Kizaru got cut a bit, Rayleigh was sweating and panting, so the fight would not have lasted in Rayleigh's favor, and even in retirement, Rayleigh is still strong. Against Marco, although Marco sent him flying, none of Marco's attacks hurt him. Held down Whitebeard's bisento with one foot (even when injured, Whitebeard was a monster), fired a laser or two into the old man, then still had time to shoot Ace's key. Alongside the other two Admirals, his BH was good enough to protect the execution scaffold from Whitebeard's earthquake.
Fujitora: hailed by DD as a beast, he also has a  hax DF, can use gravity to his advantage (sent those goons in the casino to the bottom), leaped up to the sky to call down a meteor (which he can spam while floating his ship and eating ramen), and with more feats on the way.
Mihawk is the Warlord closest to the power of an Admiral, but with the way things are now, he's not beating one.


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## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> No...I don't think I will...
> Lets review their feats.
> Mihawk: threw a slash against Whitebeard, which got blocked by Jozu. Got held off by Vista, who fought on even grounds with him for some period of time. Shanks and Mihawk used to duel years ago, but we have no idea how strong either of them were, and it's not likely their strength stayed the same. His best feat thus far is splitting an iceberg in half from a distance.
> Kizaru: hax DF (didn't get injured when Whitebeard slashed him with his bisento) which allows him to spam lasers from above and can uproot a mangrove with a casual kick. Fought with Rayleigh, and even though Kizaru got cut a bit, Rayleigh was sweating and panting, so the fight would not have lasted in Rayleigh's favor, and even in retirement, Rayleigh is still strong. Against Marco, although Marco sent him flying, none of Marco's attacks hurt him. Held down Whitebeard's bisento with one foot (even when injured, Whitebeard was a monster), fired a laser or two into the old man, then still had time to shoot Ace's key. Alongside the other two Admirals, his BH was good enough to protect the execution scaffold from Whitebeard's earthquake.
> ...



Ok, you really shouldn't wear a Mihawk set...


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

Ugh, people take every comment so seriously in here -.- Learn how to laugh people.


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## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

lol Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).

Fujitora is not being him though. Neither is Kizaru.


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## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

The Warlords should take this, Mihawk >/= Kizaru and Doflamingo and the rest should be able to handle Fujitora.


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## Unclear Justice (Nov 19, 2013)

It would be important to know how big Fuji?s AOE is, how powerful it is at the max and how fast he can change the affected area. Until we know that everything from him soloing to him being steamrolled is possible.

Edit:

Random thought: Since Fujitora is blind can we assume that he is immune to Hancock?s beam?


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

^ doesn't really matter. It's really hard to beat a team with Doflamingo+Hancock+Kuma, let a lone adding another 3 warlords.


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## Extravlad (Nov 19, 2013)

The S2 is so stupid.


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## Beast (Nov 19, 2013)

Unclear Justice said:


> It would be important to know how big Fuji?s AOE is, how powerful it is at the max and how fast he can change the affected area. Until we know that everything from him soloing to him being steamrolled is possible.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> *Random thought: Since Fujitora is blind can we assume that he is immune to Hancock?s beam?*



He should be.... If he was always blind, then she cant really attract him, since nothing will come up for him. 

@Topic
Mihawk beats Kizaru? That's a first. jk
Kizaru takes out, the rest while Fuji deals with mihawk.


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## Lmao (Nov 19, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> The Warlords destroy the Admirals here.
> 
> Mihawk defeats Kizaru high-extreme difficulty. By the end of his fight, Mihawk would be pretty roughed up, so he might not be able to do much to assist the other Warlords.
> 
> However, the remaining Warlords, with their numbers and powers, could take out Fujitora.


I don't quite follow you here, for what purpose would you put a _tangible _character against multiple opponents? Fujitora takes on Mihawk while Kizaru fights the rest, that's the only reasonable way it'll go.


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## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

The first one and second imo is Admirals high diff. They obviously lose the third.


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## Enel (Nov 19, 2013)

Shichibukai take this without a doubt. Mihawk can at least stall Kizaru if not beat him and Doflamingo and Hancock should be strong enough to take Fujitora out, then gang up on Kizaru. I don't think the other Shichibukai are even needed.


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

Lmao said:


> I don't quite follow you here, for what purpose would you put a _tangible _character against multiple opponents? Fujitora takes on Mihawk while Kizaru fights the rest, that's the only reasonable way it'll go.



Kizaru isn't beating all these warlords by himself either. 
And Fuji loses to Mihawk.


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## Lmao (Nov 19, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Kizaru isn't beating all these warlords by himself either.


"All these warlords", you make it sound like an impossible task when there's only two people who have haki let alone one strong enough to hit Kizaru's real body.



oOLawlietOo said:


> And Fuji loses to Mihawk.


He sure does but that's not the point, Mihawk can't defeat Fujitora faster than Kizaru can defeat his opponents. Even assuming he does, he'll be in no condition to fight Kizaru afterwards.


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

It's not all about Haki. Even the useless ones like Crocodile can block Kizaru's attacks with his sand, or even stop his movement by attacking him the same way he attacked Akainu.

Hancock and Dofla both can use Haki, and it's really unlikely that neither of them can touch Kizaru's real body, they can both do it if Marco and Jozu managed to do it.  Then we have Jinbei who can ignore Kizaru's intangibility by using his Karate techniques.   Kuma who can use the air as shockwaves, and the air has water in it, so his techniques are similar to Jinbei's in a way. Moria can assist them in many ways as well.

So yeah, Hancock, Dofla, Jinbei and Kuma can all hit his real body, while Crocodile and Moria assist in many ways. Kizaru aint winning this unless the gap between the admirals and the likes of Dofla and Hancock is way larger than we think, very unlikely though.


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## Cellar Door (Nov 19, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Kizaru isn't beating all these warlords by himself either.


Yes he is. The war at Marineford has shown us that numbers don't matter when fighting a Logia as long as none of the fighters have strong enough Haki to bypass the Logia user's intangibility. If Akainu could keep his intangibility intact against Marco's and Vista's combined attacks (which were, going by Akainu's comment, infused with Haki) and Kizaru, the Admiral in question here, could keep his intact against Whitebeard's, the strongest man in he world's, bisento slash, then you bet that most of the fighters in question here don't stand within an inch of a chance of even scratching Kizaru, while he can take most of them out in seconds. 

Crocodile was taken out by Alabasta Luffy, and Kizaru has shown that he can casually one shot people of a way higher calibre in Sabaody.
Moria was defeated by pre-skip Luffy and manhandled by Jinbe, who in turn was utterly outmatched against Akainu, and was deemed to weak to even be a Shichibukai, Kizaru one shots him.
Kuma was cut open by a totally fatigued pre-skip Triller Bark Zoro, Kizaru potentially one shots him.
Jinbe stood no chance against Akainu and only managed to survive some time because he kept running with other people interrupting Akainu. He did take some damage though, so while Kizaru isn't one shotting him, he will still be dealt with very quickly. 

Hancock and Doflamingo are the only ones not totally outclassed here, but Doflamingo's little exchange with Aokiji gave us a pretty clear idea that he is still rather hopelessly outmatched by any of the pre-skip Admirals, and Hancock hasn't shown anything which implies she wouldn't. 

So, while Kizaru deals with those, Fuji would take on Mihawk, and while I think Mihawk is stronger them him, he should nonetheless be able to stall Mihawk (if Vista could do it, Fuji can too) long enough for Kizaru to finish his opponents, and from then on it's 2 vs 1, so Mihawk loses.


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## Enel (Nov 19, 2013)

Cellar Door said:


> Hancock and Doflamingo are the only ones not totally outclassed here, but Doflamingo's little exchange with Aokiji gave us a pretty clear idea that he is still rather hopelessly outmatched by any of the pre-skip Admirals, and Hancock hasn't shown anything which implies she wouldn't.


"Hopelessly outmatched", yeah sure... Aokiji got a free shot at Doflamingo and what did it do? Nothing, he just broke the ice and walked away laughing. Oh right I forgot, he panted so he clearly was at his limits already... guess what, not even Jozu, a guy with one of the biggest strength feats in the manga, was able to break out of that ice. So of course it's not easy to break it and one would pant after that. If anything that encounter showed us that Kuzan is not able to fight Doflamingo as "easy" as fighting Jozu, with whom he already had some trouble.



> So, while Kizaru deals with those, Fuji would take on Mihawk, and while I think Mihawk is stronger them him, he should nonetheless be able to stall Mihawk (if Vista could do it, Fuji can too) long enough for Kizaru to finish his opponents, and from then on it's 2 vs 1, so Mihawk loses.


And how would Fuji stall Mihawk? Throwing meteors at him? Like Mihawk isn't fast enough to evade or strong enough to just cut them. Going in like Vista sword vs sword? So far Fuji didn't show the speed or the skill to survive that fight. Especially since Mihawk is bloodlusted, which means he won't goof around like he did with Vista in MF.

Sometimes the admiral wank in this forum is just ridicolous...


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## Lmao (Nov 19, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> Even the useless ones like Crocodile *can block Kizaru's attacks with his sand*





> Then we have Jinbei *who can ignore Kizaru's intangibility* by using his Karate techniques.


#fanfiction



oOLawlietOo said:


> Kuma who can use the air as shockwaves, and the air  has water in it, so his techniques are similar to Jinbei's in a way.


You mean the paw canon that TB Zoro was dodging or US that takes a shitload of time to prepare while leaving Kuma completely exposed? 



oOLawlietOo said:


> Hancock and Dofla both can use Haki, and it's really unlikely that neither of them can touch Kizaru's real body, they can both do it if Marco and Jozu managed to do it.


Except Marco/Jozu have superior haki.



Enel said:


> "Hopelessly outmatched", yeah sure... Aokiji got a  free shot at Doflamingo and what did it do?


Got a free shot? No, you don't survive free shots from a man with nigh one shot capabilities, Jozu's distraction proved that. What he did to Doflamingo was more of a flash freeze and it was done completely casually, he didn't even move a finger.



Enel said:


> And how would Fuji stall Mihawk? Throwing meteors  at him? Like Mihawk isn't fast enough to evade or strong enough to just  cut them. Going in like Vista sword vs sword?


Are you implying  Fujitora can't even stall Mihawk or something...

Admiral wank you say? Yeaaaaaaaaah  sure.


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## Cellar Door (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:


> "Hopelessly outmatched", yeah sure... Aokiji got a free shot at Doflamingo and what did it do? Nothing, he just broke the ice and walked away laughing. Oh right I forgot, he panted so he clearly was at his limits already... guess what, not even Jozu, a guy with one of the biggest strength feats in the manga, was able to break out of that ice. So of course it's not easy to break it and one would pant after that. If anything that encounter showed us that Kuzan is not able to fight Doflamingo as "easy" as fighting Jozu, with whom he already had some trouble.


"Hopelessly outmatched" means that there is no hope for Doflamingo to defeat an Admiral. Problem? 
Yes, Doflamingo was panting, which does not mean that he was at his limits, but sure does imply that if the fight had continued, Kuzan would have defeated him comfortably. Breaking out of the ice has little to do with strength I would assume rather then with Haki. Jozu was taken by surprise in a moment of carelessness, Doflamingo on the other hand was very much aware of what was likely to follow when he ignored Kuzan's warning, so those situations cannot be compared. At least Jozu confidently took an Admiral on, Doflamingo was scared of both Kuzan and Fuji.



> And how would Fuji stall Mihawk? Throwing meteors at him? Like Mihawk isn't fast enough to evade or strong enough to just cut them. Going in like Vista sword vs sword? So far Fuji didn't show the speed or the skill to survive that fight. Especially since Mihawk is bloodlusted, which means he won't goof around like he did with Vista in MF.


Specifics don't actually matter here you know, because saying that Fuji CANNOT stall Mihawk implies that Mihawk would make short work of him. No ones make short work of an Admiral period. That aside, yes, Fuji would go in with a sword. Kizaru apparently chooses to never use swords in battle when it can be avoided, so it's not his fighting style, yet when he did, he was stalemating Rayleigh, who is by all accounts a pure swordsman, with his light sabre. And you're saying that an Admiral who, unlike Kizaru, is carrying an ACTUAL sword would not be able to at least stall Mihawk? Funny.


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## White (Nov 19, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nightmare Mihawk GG.



This            .


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## Enel (Nov 19, 2013)

Lmao said:


> Got a free shot? No, you don't survive free shots from a man with nigh one shot capabilities, Jozu's distraction proved that. What he did to Doflamingo was more of a flash freeze and it was done completely casually, he didn't even move a finger.


Ah the "was not serious" argument, my favourite debating style. Yeah Kuzan was threatening Doflamingo not to kill Smoker, but he totally was not serious about it. He actually didn't really care if Smoker died or not.



Lmao said:


> Are you implying  Fujitora can't even stall Mihawk or something...


If you go by power levels yeah, he should be able to stall him. But if I picture a fight there's no way I can see Fujitora stalling a bloodlusted Mihawk.



Lmao said:


> Admiral wank you say? Yeaaaaaaaaah  sure.


Yep.



Cellar Door said:


> "Hopelessly outmatched" means that there is no hope for Doflamingo to defeat an Admiral. Problem?


Yep, problem.



Cellar Door said:


> Yes, Doflamingo was panting, which does not mean that he was at his limits, but sure does imply that if the fight had continued, Kuzan would have defeated him comfortably. Breaking out of the ice has little to do with strength I would assume rather then with Haki. Jozu was taken by surprise in a moment of carelessness, Doflamingo on the other hand was very much aware of what was likely to follow when he ignored Kuzan's warning, so those situations cannot be compared. At least Jozu confidently took an Admiral on, Doflamingo was scared of both Kuzan and Fuji.


You assume it has nothing to do with strength, but looking at how WB's quakes shattered Kuzan's ice, it doesn't look like haki to me.
Yeah Doflamingo was so shit-scard of Kuzan, that he just ignored him...



Cellar Door said:


> Specifics don't actually matter here you know, because saying that Fuji CANNOT stall Mihawk implies that Mihawk would make short work of him. No ones make short work of an Admiral period. That aside, yes, Fuji would go in with a sword. Kizaru apparently chooses to never use swords in battle when it can be avoided, so it's not his fighting style, yet when he did, he was stalemating Rayleigh, who is by all accounts a pure swordsman, with his light sabre. And you're saying that an Admiral who, unlike Kizaru, is carrying an ACTUAL sword would not be able to at least stall Mihawk? Funny.


Yeah I don't think Fuji can stall a bloodlusted Mihawk in a swordfight, that's exactly what I'm saying. So far we have no reason to think otherwise, so far Fuji completely relied on his DF powers, while a non-bloodlusted Mihawk showed the strongest slashes so far.

Power levels are shit, just because Fujitora is an admiral doesn't mean he can do everything the other admirals can do. By power level Enel was much stronger than Luffy but he still lost.


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## Orca (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:
			
		

> By power level Enel was much stronger than Luffy but he still lost.



No he wasn't.


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## Cellar Door (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:


> Yep, problem.


So, you do believe that Doflamingo could defeat an Admiral? If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that on, as I consider that notion ridiculous.



> You assume it has nothing to do with strength, but looking at how WB's quakes shattered Kuzan's ice, it doesn't look like haki to me.


I think it has little to do with physical strength in the sense that I believe the actual breaking part to be not so important in freeing youself out of Kuzan's ice, but rather the not-get-deep-frozen-in-the-first-place part, which I suppose works by coating yourself in Haki, or to be fortunate enough to be hit by one of Kuzan's quicker acting attacks that by default only encase you in ice as opposed to actually freeze you to your core, i.e. Ice Ball that Whitebeard was hit with, and possibly whatever he did to Doflamingo. Note that the attack that he froze Jozu with was a more gradual one. If those "instant" freezes would have the same effect, why bother using the slower one? Obviously, the slower ones are more potent.



> Yeah I don't think Fuji can stall a bloodlusted Mihawk in a swordfight, that's exactly what I'm saying. So far we have no reason to think otherwise, so far Fuji completely relied on his DF powers, while a non-bloodlusted Mihawk showed the strongest slashes so far.
> 
> Power levels are shit, just because Fujitora is an admiral doesn't mean he can do everything the other admirals can do. By power level Enel was much stronger than Luffy but he still lost.


I disagree. You are right that power levels can be irrelevant at lower levels, but for top tiers, they absolutely matter. No top tier will ever be dealt with easily by someone on the same level, no matter the fighting style, there's always some way to fight back (look at unarmed Akainu fighting an armed Whitebeard, someone stronger than him, evenly for a while, at one occasion stopping WB's bisento with his foot), in part thanks to Haki. Or would you say Garp would't be able to stall Mihawk because being a brawler puts him at a disadvantage?


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## Forcer (Nov 19, 2013)

Dunno said:


> Moria collects the shadows of the others and inserts them into Mihawk. Nightmare Mihawk GG.



This and if this is forbidden Moria will just sneak away and when an Admiral is caught by Doflamingo for a sec or clashing swords with Mihawk he shows up and cuts the guy shadow


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## Lmao (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:


> Ah the "was not serious" argument, my favourite debating style. Yeah Kuzan was threatening Doflamingo not to kill Smoker, but he totally was not serious about it. He actually didn't really care if Smoker died or not.


"was not serious" is not part of my argument, don't twist my words. I said Kuzan's flash freeze was done completely casually, clearly referring to effort not intent. He was serious about preventing Doflamingo from further harming Smoker and he stopped him just fine without moving an inch.



Enel said:


> If you go by power levels yeah, he should be able to stall him. But if I picture a fight there's no way I can see Fujitora stalling a bloodlusted Mihawk.


Fujitora isn't carrying a sword for show, his design is based after Zatoichi, a fictional character in one of Japan's longest running series of films;  _a blind swordsman_.


*Spoiler*: __ 




[youtube]MNlSoDoEHbQ[/youtube]




If anything his swordsmanship will be amazing.


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## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Admirals win this. People forget that Admirals are the only ones who can fight against the Yonkou in 1 vs 1.

So replace 2 Admirals with 2 Yonkou vs the Warlords and you'll see why the warlords have no chance.

Admirals = Yonkou

And people are underestimating Kizaru greatly. Remember when Law was escaping with Luffy and he spammed Yasakani no Magatama? Who among the warlords has a defense against a spam of Ship sized lazers?



People also seem to forget that Kizaru can also move his limbs at high speeds (Light Kick, Light Punch). Now imagine he turns himself into light and blitzes a warlord them comes out with a CoA Haki Light Kick. GG for anyone he hits. Kizaru has never turned it up, he would be a monster if he takes a fight seriously.

Fujitora also hasnt taken a fight seriously if he can spam meteors , when serious whats stopping him from stopping your movement and pressing you to the ground and finishing you off? (Especially the weaker warlords) The sheer amount of things you can do with gravity as well as his position as an admiral gives him enough hype to do major damage.

The two of them together bloodlusted means they go for big attacks at the jump, good luck fighting against light and gravity. 

In conclusion like i said the Admirals = Yonkou and the warlords couldnt take 2 younkou.


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## tanman (Nov 19, 2013)

Fujitora v. Doflamingo + Hancock is a tough one. Honestly, Doflamingo will be doing all of the heavy lifting here. Doflamingo's already demonstrated he's more than capable of defending himself against Fujitora. I feel as if Doflamingo could probably push him to high difficulty. I'm just not so certain that Hancock is enough to tip the scales. I guess, there's Jinbe too, but I don't really see him doing much to Fujitora either.

My guess would be that Kizaru and Mihawk are _very_ close in strength. They would both either die or the winner would be too messed up to keep fighting.


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## Enel (Nov 19, 2013)

Cellar Door said:


> So, you do believe that Doflamingo could defeat an Admiral? If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that on, as I consider that notion ridiculous.


I believe Doflamingo could defeat an admiral, yes. So far he survived the MF-war without receiving a scratch and wasn't affected in any way by his encounter with Kuzan. There's no reason for me to believe he wouldn't give Fujitora anything else than an extreme-diff fight.



Cellar Door said:


> I think it has little to do with physical strength in the sense that I believe the actual breaking part to be not so important in freeing youself out of Kuzan's ice, but rather the not-get-deep-frozen-in-the-first-place part, which I suppose works by coating yourself in Haki, or to be fortunate enough to be hit by one of Kuzan's quicker acting attacks that by default only encase you in ice as opposed to actually freeze you to your core, i.e. Ice Ball that Whitebeard was hit with, and possibly whatever he did to Doflamingo. Note that the attack that he froze Jozu with was a more gradual one. If those "instant" freezes would have the same effect, why bother using the slower one? Obviously, the slower ones are more potent.


You really think he'd use a weak move against Whitebeard? Come on, it's ridicolous to think he would use anything else than his strongest attacks against the WSM.



Cellar Door said:


> I disagree. You are right that power levels can be irrelevant at lower levels, but for top tiers, they absolutely matter. No top tier will ever be dealt with easily by someone on the same level, no matter the fighting style, there's always some way to fight back (look at unarmed Akainu fighting an armed Whitebeard, someone stronger than him, evenly for a while, at one occasion stopping WB's bisento with his foot), in part thanks to Haki. Or would you say Garp would't be able to stall Mihawk because being a brawler puts him at a disadvantage?


No, Garp could possibly stall Mihawk, because he proved that he has great speed and strength to keep up with him. So far Fujitora's physical stats are below Garp's until proven otherwise. And I believe to be able to keep up with Mihawk you either need to be a physical powerhouse or have a really hax DF.



Lmao said:


> "was not serious" is not part of my argument, don't twist my words. I said Kuzan's flash freeze was done completely casually, clearly referring to effort not intent. He was serious about preventing Doflamingo from further harming Smoker and he stopped him just fine without moving an inch.


So he did see Doflamingo as one of the greatest threats to the World Government, but still he didn't use a strong attack on him because... yeah why? Why would he hold back at this moment? He didn't move an inch when freezing Whiteberad, but surely he didn't hold back there, did he?



Lmao said:


> Fujitora isn't carrying a sword for show, his design is based after Zatoichi, a fictional character in one of Japan's longest running series of films;  _a blind swordsman_.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


But we haven't seen anything from his swordsmanship yet. I have no reason to think he would be a challenge for the WSS. And once again this Mihawk is bloodlusted, it's not the playful Mihawk Vista had to face.


----------



## Orca (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:
			
		

> But we haven't seen anything from his swordsmanship yet. I have no reason to think he would be a challenge for the WSS. And once again this Mihawk is bloodlusted, it's not the playful Mihawk Vista had to face.



Neither is this the ramen eating fujitora.


----------



## Cellar Door (Nov 19, 2013)

Enel said:


> I believe Doflamingo could defeat an admiral, yes. So far he survived the MF-war without receiving a scratch and wasn't affected in any way by his encounter with Kuzan. There's no reason for me to believe he wouldn't give Fujitora anything else than an extreme-diff fight.


We'll just have to see about this one then. Difference in opinion, I don't think he'd stand a chance.



> You really think he'd use a weak move against Whitebeard? Come on, it's ridicolous to think he would use anything else than his strongest attacks against the WSM.


I think Kuzan would use a move that the situation calls for. Whitebeard was in the middle of taking a quake powered bisento swing at a bunch of fodder Marines, Kuzan interrupted him by freezing him. Similarly, Doflamingo was in the middle dealing a killing blow to Smoker, Kuzan interrupted him by freezing him. So, in both situations, he didn't need the attack to be strong, he needed it to _fast_. Again, if these fast acting attacks are indeed just as potent as his slower, gradual ones that apparently also require direct touch with the opponent, then why would he use a slower one to put down Jozu instead of a quick one when he saw an opening in Jozu's defense? It's obvious that his instant attacks, one of which Doflamingo was frozen with, are subpar to what Jozu was hit with.



> No, Garp could possibly stall Mihawk, because he proved that he has great speed and strength to keep up with him. So far Fujitora's physical stats are below Garp's until proven otherwise. And I believe to be able to keep up with Mihawk you either need to be a physical powerhouse or have a really hax DF.


And Fuji is an Admiral, thus one of the Marines' strongest fighting forces and thereby top tier until proven otherwise. And there's no top tier who cannot at least stall another top tier for a while, denying that would be defying common sense, really.


----------



## Enel (Nov 19, 2013)

Luffee said:


> Neither is this the ramen eating fujitora.


He wasn't eating ramen while fighting with his sword.



Cellar Door said:


> We'll just have to see about this one then. Difference in opinion, I don't think he'd stand a chance.


Agreed.



Cellar Door said:


> I think Kuzan would use a move that the situation calls for. Whitebeard was in the middle of taking a quake powered bisento swing at a bunch of fodder Marines, Kuzan interrupted him by freezing him. Similarly, Doflamingo was in the middle dealing a killing blow to Smoker, Kuzan interrupted him by freezing him. So, in both situations, he didn't need the attack to be strong, he needed it to _fast_. Again, if these fast acting attacks are indeed just as potent as his slower, gradual ones that apparently also require direct touch with the opponent, then why would he use a slower one to put down Jozu instead of a quick one when he saw an opening in Jozu's defense? It's obvious that his instant attacks, one of which Doflamingo was frozen with, are subpar to what Jozu was hit with.


I don't find that to be obvious at all. It's, for me anyway, hard to see if that technique on Jozu was slower than what he used on WB or Doffy. If I remember correctly first his arm was frozen and in the next panel he was already completely solid. I don't consider that very slow.



Cellar Door said:


> And Fuji is an Admiral, thus one of the Marines' strongest fighting forces and thereby top tier until proven otherwise. And there's no top tier who cannot at least stall another top tier for a while, denying that would be defying common sense, really.


Arguing like that doesn't really help, because I think Doflamingo is top-tier, you apparently don't. So there's no point saying every top-tier can stall every other one, if we don't specifiy who's on what tier.

Well I guess we simply have different views on Admirals and people like Doffy then. Still I find it ridicolous to say that two admirals could defeat all shichibukai at once.


----------



## Orca (Nov 19, 2013)

He wasn't blood listed either.


----------



## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

> #fanfiction



Fanfiction? I guess you forgot when Crocodile stopped Akainu from delivering the last blow to Luffy and Jinbei.

And I'll assume you completely ignored this because it helps your case






> You mean the paw canon that TB Zoro was dodging or US that takes a shitload of time to prepare while leaving Kuma completely exposed?



You obviously have no idea how a group of people vs 1 work. Exposed? That's why he has his fellow warlords, to back him up... And if Kuma wanted Zoro dead, he would be dead by now. He was testing the SHs, nothing more nothing less.


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> lol Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).
> 
> Fujitora is not being him though. Neither is Kizaru.



So, Fuji and Kizaru are weaker than Mihawk now?


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

Absolutely  .


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

What could mihawk hope to do against a bloodlusted Kizaru Yasakani no magatama spam?


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

The same thing Luffy did when Hody used his watter bullets against him.


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Except in this case there are thosands being spammed everything they hit explodes and they can be sizes aa big as laws submarine.


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Absolutely  .



Your as high as the guy in your avi


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Absolutely  .



How does he beat Kizaru? Haki? Can you prove he has Haki? Because he used to fight Shanks and trained Zoro and they have it, so he must have it? That's a fallacy.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

killfox said:


> Except in this case there are thosands being spammed everything they hit explodes and they can be sizes aa big as laws submarine.



And Mihawk is a very, very fast individual who could likely dodge them and then close the distance between them. Or otherwise counter them with his air slashes that cleave mountains in two. This is assuming Kizaru will get a chance to set up a distance between them in the first place. 

Why didn't Kizaru use the lasers against Rayleigh if they were so effective? 



> Your as high as the guy in your sig



I don't have a sig. 



> How does he beat Kizaru? Haki? Can you prove he has Haki? Because he used to fight Shanks and trained Zoro and they have it, so he must have it? That's a fallacy.



Prove Kizaru has haki.


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Prove Kizaru has haki.





			
				Cnet128 said:
			
		

> Doctor: The power known as "Haki"... this is quite clearly one of its manifestations. // It must have awakened as a result of the shock you experienced on the battlefield... / Ordinarily, the ability can only be brought out by lengthy periods of training...
> Coby: Haki......?! This is...?!
> *Doctor: All Marines of Vice-Admiral class and above are able to make use of this ability.*
> Coby: I can feel presence of the people around me so strongly... it's all too much...
> ...



"Vice Admirals and above". Kizaru is not only an Admiral but used to be a Vice Admiral. 

Mihawk hasn't been shown nor stated to have Haki.


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> And Mihawk is a very, very fast individual who could likely dodge them and then close the distance between them. Or otherwise counter them with his air slashes that cleave mountains in two. This is assuming Kizaru will get a chance to set up a distance between them in the first place.
> 
> Why didn't Kizaru use the lasers against Rayleigh if they were so effective?
> 
> ...



I meant avi.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

Oh shit, I had no idea cnet translated it like that. 

Anyway, acting like Mihawk doesn't have haki is dumb and only trolling. His pedestal and hype is greater than Kizaru's. Being Zoro's final opponent should put him above 99% of the verse, Kizaru included.



> I meant avi.



Yeah, I am well aware of that. :ignoramus


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> And Mihawk is a very, very fast individual who could likely dodge them and then close the distance between them. Or otherwise counter them with his air slashes that cleave mountains in two. This is assuming Kizaru will get a chance to set up a distance between them in the first place.
> 
> Why didn't Kizaru use the lasers against Rayleigh if they were so effective?
> 
> ...


 Mihawk may be fast but in no way is he faster than the light man. Also Kizaru chose to form the sword and engage in cqc if he was bloodlusted he would have brought out the big guns. He also didnt use light enhanced armswings in their fight which he easily could have. Rayleigh came out of nowhere and Kizaru didnt really wanna fight him as he thoufht things were going to be easy. 

Anyway lets assume mihawk could "cleave light" in two the slah will never make it to Kizaru because thousands more lazers will be coming in its place and theres no way Mihawk is going to  spam more slashes than lazera being fired. Even if he dodges there will be constant explosions for him to be caught in and he will have no foot hold. Unlike marco he cant fly and has no regen. Kizaru is a horrible match up for him.


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

I can't see how a guy who had problems with an old, out of shape Rayleigh is superior to Mihawk.



killfox said:


> Mihawk may be fast but in no way is he faster than the light man. Also Kizaru chose to form the sword and engage in cqc if he was bloodlusted he would have brought out the big guns. He also didnt use light enhanced armswings in their fight which he easily could have. Rayleigh came out of nowhere and Kizaru didnt really wanna fight him as he thoufht things were going to be easy.
> 
> Anyway lets assume mihawk could "cleave light" in two the slah will never make it to Kizaru because thousands more lazers will be coming in its place and theres no way Mihawk is going to  spam more slashes than lazera being fired. Even if he dodges there will be constant explosions for him to be caught in and he will have no foot hold. Unlike marco he cant fly and has no regen. Kizaru is a horrible match up for him.



Kizaru would be a horrible matchup for anyone without intangibility if it was as easy as you describe it.


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Oh shit, I had no idea cnet translated it like that.
> 
> Anyway, acting like Mihawk doesn't have haki is dumb and only trolling. His pedestal and hype is greater than Kizaru's. Being Zoro's final opponent should put him above 99% of the verse, Kizaru included.
> 
> ...



Your drunk go  home. :ignoramus I really want some Starbucks right now


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Oh shit, I had no idea cnet translated it like that.
> 
> Anyway, *acting like Mihawk doesn't have haki is dumb and only trolling*.



But you still can't prove he has Haki. Just saying. 

And yes, I am mostly just trolling. 



Sakazuki said:


> His pedestal and hype is greater than Kizaru's. Being Zoro's final opponent should put him above 99% of the verse, Kizaru included.



Kizaru has near equal standing with Sakazuki. 

Sakazuki is Luffy's final opponent. 

Luffy > Zoro. 

So, Luffy's final opponent > Zoro's final opponent. 

So, Sakazuki >= Borsalino > Mihawk.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Prove Kizaru has haki.


He helped the other two Admirals stop Whitebeard's Earthquake on the plaza.


Stαrkiller said:


> "Vice Admirals and above". Kizaru is not only an Admiral but used to be a Vice Admiral.
> 
> *Mihawk hasn't been shown nor stated to have Haki*.


Yup. Even then, there's no guarantee that Mihawk's Haki > Kizaru's Haki.


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Vengeance said:


> I can't see how a guy who had problems with an old, out of shape Rayleigh is superior to Mihawk.


Mihawk planned to take out luffy vista stopped him. Kizaru planned to take out the shs ray stopped him.

In an extended real fight mihawk would beat vista.

In an extended fight kizaru would beat Ray (as shown when rays fatuige was noticable)

Conclusion:Kizaru had about the same difficulty with ray that mihawk had woth cista. Both were quick duels.

Yet people still say mihawk is stronger. Same scenario here Kizaru is stronger.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

> Mihawk may be fast but in no way is he faster than the light man.



He doesn't have to be faster than Kizaru to avoid his lasers. Aokiji casually leaped over half of Marineford within a second. Mihawk should have comparable leg strength. He will close the distance between him and Kizaru instantly, there is no question about it. 



> Also Kizaru chose to form the sword and engage in cqc if he was bloodlusted he would have brought out the big guns.



No, he clearly chose a sword because it was his most appropriate weapon to use in combat at that point. He also knew it was more appropriate to use his laser barrages against Marco, hence he did. 



> Anyway lets assume mihawk could "cleave light" in two the slah will never make it to Kizaru because thousands more lazers will be coming in its place and theres no way Mihawk is going to spam more slashes than lazera being fired.



But Mihawk's slashes are much, much bigger than Kizaru's lasers. One slash could likely match hundreds of them. If Law can swing his sword fast enough to counter a bloody meteor, then Mihawk won't have all that much trouble countering Kizaru's lasers. 



> Even if he dodges there will be constant explosions for him to be caught in and he will have no foot hold



He can simply propel himself forward. Aokiji's leap, remember?


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

killfox said:


> Mihawk planned to take out luffy vista stopped him. Kizaru planned to take out the shs ray stopped him.
> 
> In an extended real fight mihawk would beat vista.
> 
> ...



That conclusion is just your opinion...
Kizaru was even cut by Rayleigh and seemed to have hands full with him, Mihawk on the other hand was even thinking about Luffy during the fight.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> *His pedestal and hype is greater than Kizaru's. Being Zoro's final opponent should put him above 99% of the verse, Kizaru included.*


1.) It's not a sure thing Zoro's final opponent will be Mihawk.
2.) Mihawk is the World's Greatest *Swordsman*, which is a category, not overall skill and power.
3.) Kizaru held his ground against Whitebeard, and as an Admiral is one of the Marines Greatest Military Powers and is on par wih Akainu and Aokiji, and both of them are stronger than Mihawk.


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Vengeance said:


> That conclusion is just your opinion...
> Kizaru was even cut by Rayleigh and seemed to have hands full with him, Mihawk on the other hand was even thinking about Luffy during the fight.


Ray Cut Kizaru when he had his guard down and was focused on getting to escaping strawhats. Had Kizaru known Ray was coming and had had his guard up it would have happened. 

People of the same level catching one another off guard happens all the time.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

> 1.) It's not a sure thing Zoro's final opponent will be Mihawk.



It's also not a sure thing Akainu is one of Luffy's final opponents. For all you know, Kong might kill him. 



> 2.) Mihawk is the World's Greatest Swordsman, which is a category, not overall skill and power.



Okay. He will still give the Pirate King's first mate, someone who should be about as strong as Prime Rayleigh, the fight of his life. 



> 3.) Kizaru held his ground against Whitebeard



You mean Whitebeard who was imapled, then had a heart attack, then received a magma punch to the torso, and then was shot and stabbed by hundreds of marine soldiers? You mean_ that_ Whitebeard?



> and both of them are stronger than Mihawk, *in my opinion*



Indeed.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

killfox said:


> Ray Cut Kizaru when he had his guard down and was focused on getting to escaping strawhats. Had Kizaru known Ray was coming and had had his guard up it would have happened.
> 
> People of the same level catching one another off guard happens all the time.


Exactly. And in any case, Rayleigh was sweating and panting in his duel with Kizaru, so it's not likely Rayleigh was going to last long enough to beat Kizaru.


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> 1.) It's not a sure thing Zoro's final opponent will be Mihawk.
> 2.) Mihawk is the World's Greatest *Swordsman*, which is a category, not overall skill and power.
> 3.) Kizaru held his ground against Whitebeard, and as an Admiral is one of the Marines Greatest Military Powers and is on par wih Akainu and Aokiji, and both of them are stronger than Mihawk.



Mihawk's title is basically the confirmation that he's among the absolute top dogs. 
I agree that Kizaru should be on par or very close to his colleagues , but how is confimed that they are stronger than Mihawk?


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

Good fights happening. Keep it up guys


----------



## killfox (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> He doesn't have to be faster than Kizaru to avoid his lasers. Aokiji casually leaped over half of Marineford within a second. Mihawk should have comparable leg strength. He will close the distance between him and Kizaru instantly, there is no question about it.


Using one persons leaping feat for another doesnt work. Also even if he could leaping* towards * a lazer spam would be a bad idea. 




Sakazuki said:


> No, he clearly chose a sword because it was his most appropriate weapon to use in combat at that point.


Because you said so right? Had Kizaru spammed Yasakani no Magatama instead of pulling out his sword what would Ray have done?



Sakazuki said:


> He also knew it was more appropriate to use his laser barrages against Marco, hence he did.


He knew it was appropriate to use lasers against a regenerating opponent? No. He used the lasers to try to get to Whitebeard and end him quickly. 



Sakazuki said:


> But Mihawk's slashes are much, much bigger than Kizaru's lasers. *One slash could likely match hundreds of them.* If Law can swing his sword fast enough to counter a bloody meteor, then Mihawk won't have all that much trouble countering Kizaru's lasers.


1 slash  from Mihawk could match hundreds of Lazers from Kizaru? I call bogus on that statement. Also good luck against *ship* *sized lazers*






Sakazuki said:


> He can simply propel himself forward. Aokiji's leap, remember?


Feats say otherwise.


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> . *But Mihawk's slashes are much, much bigger than Kizaru's lasers*. One slash could likely match hundreds of them. If Law can swing his sword fast enough to counter a bloody meteor, then Mihawk won't have all that much trouble countering Kizaru's lasers.



Are they? 

 one destroyed a mangrove tree in Sabaody.

 one was pretty big.

 made a huge explosion in the background.


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

killfox said:


> Ray Cut Kizaru when he had his guard down and was focused on getting to escaping strawhats. Had Kizaru known Ray was coming and had had his guard up it would have happened.
> 
> People of the same level catching one another off guard happens all the time.



Rayleigh had just stopped his previous attack with his leg and was standing right in front of him.
But that aside it remains that we can't simply say that Mihawk and Kizaru would have had the same difficulty with beating their respective opponent, this is just rigged.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> It's also not a sure thing Akainu is one of Luffy's final opponents. For all you know, Kong might kill him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1.) Indeed.
2.) Yes.
3.) The same Whitebeard who even when injured was stomping almost everyone in his path, and even with half his head gone could split Marineford, yes.
4.) Yeah, since Mihawk was held off by Vista (who Mihawk noted only a fool wouldn't know Vista), and his slash didn't make it past Jozu, not likely. Akainu got back up from Whitebeard's Island Splitter, which didn't knock him unconscious, and still had enough to take on the WB Crew, Aokiji lasted against Akainu for ten days, and when both could go full out, changed the climate of Punk Hazard.


Vengeance said:


> Mihawk's title is basically the confirmation that he's among the absolute top dogs.
> I agree that Kizaru should be on par or very close to his colleagues , but how is confimed that they are stronger than Mihawk?


Mihawk got held off by the WB Commanders, who are weaker than the Admirals, and until Mihawk shows that he has Haki, none of his attacks will work, and even then, it may not be good enough.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

> Using one persons leaping feat for another doesnt work.



Mihawk has next to no feats. Powerscaling him to other characters is the only possible alternative. There's a reason why he's banned in the battledome.



> Because you said so right? Had Kizaru spammed Yasakani no Magatama instead of pulling out his sword what would Ray have done?



Dodge, then close the distance and then fight him in close quarters. Jesus Christ. By your logic nobody in the One Piece verse can beat Kizaru. 



> He knew it was appropriate to use lasers against a regenerating opponent? No.



No, he knew it was appropriate to use lasers against a guy flying towards him at extremely high speeds instead of drawing a sword and trying to cut him.



> He used the lasers to try to get to Whitebeard and end him quickly.



And Whitebeard was mocking those lasers. Clearly shows how effective they would have been had Marco not interfered. 



> 1 slash from Mihawk could match hundreds of Lazers from Kizaru?



Yes. Kizaru's lasers are as big as a submarine at their best, Mihawk's slashes when performed casually bust mountains in two.



> Feats say otherwise.



Hence why we shouldn't be debating this in the first place. Mihawk has no usable feats of speed, endurance, durability or basically any other physical showings. Debating this is pointless.

@Starkiller

I was talking about their initial size. Before they explode.


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

> Mihawk got held off by the WB Commanders, who are weaker than the Admirals



The admirals themselves also got held off by WB commanders. 



> and until Mihawk shows that he has Haki, none of his attacks will work,



Every Vice admiral (among them swordsmen) is confirmed to be able to use haki, it is safe to assume the strongest swordsman can use it as well


> and even then, it may not be good enough.


Theoretically possible, but not probable


----------



## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> *And Whitebeard was mocking those lasers*. Clearly shows how effective they would have been had Marco not interfered.



WB mocks everything. He mocked Kuzan who casually froze his tsunamis. He also mocked Sakazuki who just melted that iceberg Jozu threw. 



Sakazuki said:


> Yes. Kizaru's lasers are as big as a submarine at their best, *Mihawk's slashes when performed casually bust mountains in two*.



Busting a mountain >> slicing a mountain in two in terms of energy required. 



Sakazuki said:


> @Starkiller
> 
> I was talking about their initial size. Before they explode.



So? Mihawk's slash hits them and they explode, countering the slash.


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm done debating this controversy. Some Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) should take over.


----------



## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Vengeance said:


> The admirals themselves also got held off by WB commanders.


Who were forced to hold back due to the power of their Devil Fruits (Punk Hazard) and because of their comrades being in the crossfire.


Vengeance said:


> Every Vice admiral (among them swordsmen) is confirmed to be able to use haki, it is safe to assume the strongest swordsman can use it as well


Mihawk's full power has been in the dark for some time. When he was fighting Luffy, and Luffy got away, Mihawk didn't use KH to find him, he used his own eyesight. Whether he has Haki or not can go either way.


Vengeance said:


> Theoretically possible, but not probable


Marco and Vista ambushed Akainu, and thanks to his own BH, was only irritated by the duo.


----------



## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

Just putting it out here guys. I wonder who taught Zoro haki?


----------



## Vengeance (Nov 19, 2013)

TheTeaIsGood2 said:


> Who were forced to hold back due to the power of their Devil Fruits (Punk Hazard) and because of their comrades being in the crossfire.
> 
> Mihawk's full power has been in the dark for some time. When he was fighting Luffy, and Luffy got away, Mihawk didn't use KH to find him, he used his own eyesight. Whether he has Haki or not can go either way.
> 
> Marco and Vista ambushed Akainu, and thanks to his own BH, was only irritated by the duo.



Mihawk obviously also held back, we saw what one simple slash of him can do.

Mihawk used what was best for him and it worked, Luffy remained within his range as he said himself. And we don't even know what that was exactly, it could have been CoO. Also, are you seriously argueing that the guy who trained Zoro, a confirmed haki user, for 2 years is unable to use haki himself?

Marco and Vista hurt Akainu, not much but there was some blood flying around. Though we don't know if Akainu had CoA activated or how it even works together with a logia ability.

I'm done here for now,  cba anymore.



Slenderman said:


> Just putting it out here guys. I wonder who taught Zoro haki?



He obviously taught it himself, with Mihawk just sitting there in astonishment and jealousy. :sanji


----------



## RF (Nov 19, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Just putting it out here guys. I wonder who taught Zoro haki?



The baboons.


----------



## Unclear Justice (Nov 19, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> I'm done debating this controversy. Some Mihawk ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) should take over.





Vengeance said:


> I'm done here for now,  cba anymore.



Good decision, guys. 

Like Sakazuki already stated Mihawk is banned for a reason. Too bad that not everybody cares about the section rules.


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## hehey (Nov 19, 2013)

I don't see the point of Scenario 2, what good is the COA restriction on the Admirals when all their best moves involve them just spamming their DF AoE attacks?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> Just putting it out here guys. I wonder who taught Zoro haki?


Garp, a Haki user, trained Helmeppo and Coby, did they have Haki when Luffy and co met them? Nope. Coby awoke it in the war, Helmeppo has yet to awaken it. Sanji learned Geppo, did Iva train him how to use it? No, Sanji learned it on his own.


Vengeance said:


> Mihawk obviously also held back, we saw what one simple slash of him can do.


I don't think he was holding back against Whitebeard (Strongest Man in the World) when Jozu blocked his slash.


Vengeance said:


> Mihawk used what was best for him and it worked, Luffy remained within his range as he said himself. And we don't even know what that was exactly, *it could have been CoO*.


Not really. The Boa Sisters and Enel used it with their eyes closed. Mihawk was actively looking for Luffy.


Vengeance said:


> Also, are you seriously argueing that the guy who trained Zoro, a confirmed haki user, for 2 years is unable to use haki himself?


It can go either way. I can see Oda pulling a move like that.


Vengeance said:


> *Marco and Vista hurt Akainu, not much but there was some blood flying around*. Though we don't know if Akainu had CoA activated or how it even works together with a logia ability.



Bullshit. There was no sign of injury on Akainu.


Unclear Justice said:


> Good decision, guys.
> 
> Like Sakazuki already stated Mihawk is banned for a reason. Too bad that not everybody cares about the section rules.


I try to.


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## Slenderman (Nov 19, 2013)

^ But Garp trained Coby in KH so that's kinda moot.


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## trance (Nov 19, 2013)

Slenderman said:


> ^ But Garp trained Coby in KH so that's kinda moot.



Did he? You have proof that he officially trained him in KH?


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## Mihawk (Nov 19, 2013)

An Old Rayleigh & Mihawk are not on the same level. 
Mihawk is on a whole other level.

And stubborn "feats" people saying that there is no proof that Mihawk has no haki, are devoid of the principle known as common sense. 

It's clear as day that Mihawk taught Zoro how to use haki, in the same way that Rayleigh taught Luffy. 

And yes, Mihawk would be able to parry and defend himself against Kizaru's lasers.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 19, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> An Old Rayleigh & Mihawk are not on the same level.
> Mihawk is on a whole other level.


Yes, Rayleigh was an old fart, only swam through the *Calm Belt*, and could hold off Kizaru (even if he wasn't going to win, and Mihawk wouldn't do any better).


Doflαmingo said:


> And stubborn "feats" people saying that there is no proof that Mihawk has no haki, are devoid of the principle known as common sense.


Mihawk actively looked for Luffy, he didn't close his eyes and sense him, like the Boa Sisters and Enel did.


Doflαmingo said:


> It's clear as day that Mihawk taught Zoro how to use haki, in the same way that Rayleigh taught Luffy.


So, since Sanji can Geppo, does that mean Iva knows how to Geppo too, or what?


Doflαmingo said:


> And yes, Mihawk would be able to parry and defend himself against Kizaru's lasers.


I'd like to see how Mihawk would tank Yasakini no Magatama or a good old Falcon Kick from Kizaru.


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## Mihawk (Nov 19, 2013)

> Yes, Rayleigh was an old fart, only swam through the *Calm Belt*, and could hold off Kizaru (even if he wasn't going to win, and Mihawk wouldn't do any better).



Swimming through the Calm Belt means shit when he started to pant against Kizaru. It's a good stamina feat, but against an Admiral level fighter, it's a moot point. 

For example, if one can run on an incline of 1 on a speed of 3.5, for 75 minutes, it doesn't mean he can run on an incline of 7 on a higher speed of 5.0 for the same amount of time. 


Mihawk can slice a mountain with ease without a single grunt, and that was Aokiji's ice, mind you, from Ice Age, which can easily freeze oceans for up to a couple weeks. The megatons calculated as well as the fact that it was one of the most destructive casual feats in the series, tells me Mihawk could do a hell of a lot better than Rayleigh did.





> Mihawk actively looked for Luffy, he didn't close his eyes and sense him, like the Boa Sisters and Enel did.




We don't know if Mihawk's Hawk Eyes are an extension of CoO, and besides, he found Luffy by looking far into the distance, just as how Zoro traced the dwarf which stole his katana. 

Also, why does he need to use CoO(assuming you believe that his hawk eyes are not CoO induced) if he can already see Luffy easily

Doflamingo has shown all 3 forms of haki, yet his CoO couldn't do shit to help him when Aokiji was behind him. He didn't see him coming, which means that not all fighters keep it activated at all times.




> So, since Sanji can Geppo, does that mean Iva knows how to Geppo too, or what?



A classic comparison of apples and oranges

Sanji wasn't directly trained under Ivankov. He underwent the process of running every day for two years and getting the recipes by himself. 

Mihawk trained Zoro.




> I'd like to see how Mihawk would tank Yasakini no Magatama or a good old Falcon Kick from Kizaru.



Why does he need to tank a barrage of lasers when he's not an intangible logia or a Mythical Zoan with renegerative powers like Marco?

Once again, comparing apples to oranges.


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## Lawliet (Nov 19, 2013)

> Yes, Rayleigh was an old fart, only swam through the Calm Belt, and could hold off Kizaru (even if he wasn't going to win, and Mihawk wouldn't do any better).


Doesn't mean Mihawk can't replicate the same feats. The dude travels around the world on a mini boat.



> Mihawk actively looked for Luffy, he didn't close his eyes and sense him, like the Boa Sisters and Enel did.


What's that supposed to mean? I hope you realize that so far, Mihawk's accuracy is the highest in the whole Manga. 



> So, since Sanji can Geppo, does that mean Iva knows how to Geppo too, or what?


Oh so you're saying Zoro knew what each Haki is, their specific name(what they're called) and what each one of them is good against (Monet's example)? Is that what you're trying to say? 


> I'd like to see how Mihawk would tank Yasakini no Magatama or a good old Falcon Kick from Kizaru.


He doesn't have t tank it. By your logic, Kizaru > every single character in One Piece if they try and tank his attacks all the time. Not sure if you ever played Pokemon, but enemies can dodge.


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## trance (Nov 20, 2013)

I see Sakazuki was added. 

Sakazuki beats Mihawk while Kizaru and Fujitora slaughter the others. 

Admirals lolstomp.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> *I see Sakazuki was added*


...so it's now three Admirals against the Warlords?

Akainu cooks himself a fine Mihawk meal while Fujitora spams meteors against the others, and Kizaru either trolls them with Yasakini no Magatama or Falcon Kicks them all back into Paradise.


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## opofft (Nov 20, 2013)

3 admirals vs warlords? This has been done before, and admirals take it quite handily.
One can stall Mihawk, and other 2 makes short work of the remaining shihibukais.
Then a gang rape commences. 

As per before, if 2 admirals vs warlords, i reckon warlords can take it.


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## Gilgamesh (Nov 20, 2013)

See Mihawk fans? threads like this are why people hate you so much



> Fujitora is not being him though. Neither is Kizaru.



This post is so stupid show proof that Faghawk is stronger


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## Lawliet (Nov 20, 2013)

Show proof that Fuji is stronger.


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## Gilgamesh (Nov 20, 2013)

Show proof that Mihawk is stronger


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## Lawliet (Nov 20, 2013)

You're the one who jumped in and accused "Mihawk fans" of being hated because of their opinion when your opinion is just as similar. So instead of doing that, why don't you show us proof of Fuji's superiority. 

Fuji looks like a swordsman to me, Mihawk is the WSS, that's the only proof I need. If that's not a legitimate proof for you, then that's your opinion,  you don't have to get mad at others for stating theirs.


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## Freechoice (Nov 20, 2013)

Burden of proof is on you, Lawliet.


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## RF (Nov 20, 2013)

> This post is so stupid show proof that Faghawk is stronger



Better hype and pedestal. The only thing we can go with for now.


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## Orca (Nov 20, 2013)

Neither Mihawk's hype or pedestal is higher than the admirals.

OT: Akainu was added? Akainu solos. Like he soloed the WB commanders


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## Slenderman (Nov 20, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> Did he? You have proof that he officially trained him in KH?



It's an assumption but it holds water. The doctor fishbone or whatever told Coby to tell Garp to teach them haki in an chapter. It's  post war.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

Luffee said:


> *Neither Mihawk's hype or pedestal is higher than the admirals*.





Luffee said:


> OT: Akainu was added? Akainu solos. Like he soloed the WB commanders


After surviving an Island Splitter no less.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 20, 2013)

Hey, hey people(And by people I mean Lawliet) let me clarify somethin' for you: 

Mihawk is the WSS, so he can do better than anyone in swords . Now if Issho and him were to *fight with swords*, Fuji would lose in the swordsmanship, but it doesn't mean if they were to *fight* Fujitora would lose, being the best shooter in One Piece doesn't make you win against Doflamingo because he used a gun to shoot Law .


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

OBDNewbie said:


> Hey, hey people(And by people I mean Lawliet) let me clarify somethin' for you:
> 
> Mihawk is the WSS, so he can do better than anyone in swords . Now if Issho and him were to *fight with swords*, Fuji would lose in the swordsmanship, but it doesn't mean if they were to *fight* Fujitora would lose, being the best shooter in One Piece doesn't make you win against Doflamingo because he used a gun to shoot Law .


Pretty much, people keep mistaking swordsmanship as overall power, when it's actually a category. Another example would be if we gave Garp a sword and he and Mihawk got into a fight (no restrictions). Mihawk would be a better swordsman, but Garp would beat the tar out of him.


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## November (Nov 20, 2013)

So Akainu is in the party now?
Roasted Shichibukais so.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 20, 2013)

Can Kizaru/Fujitora/Kuzan/Sakazuki solo the Shichibukais with the exception of Mihawk ? I think so .


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## RF (Nov 20, 2013)

> After surviving an Island Splitter no less.



You forgot to mention the part where he didn't actually fight them alone.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

^ So when in the clash with the commanders did he receive backup? 
And the OP updated the scenarios. Thoughts?


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## RF (Nov 20, 2013)

Roughly around the same time he started fighting them.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

^ And the commanders failed to gangrush and kill him before the backup arrived.
So who wins the updated scenario?


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## RF (Nov 20, 2013)

Considering only 2 people out of the bunch could actually hurt Akainu I'd be surprised if that happened.

Admirals destroy of course.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Considering only 2 people out of the bunch could actually hurt Akainu I'd be surprised if that actually happened.
> 
> Admirals destroy of course.


Which two people are you talking about? In the ambush Marco and Vista attempted, they didn't hurt Akainu, he was irritated. His BH saved him. Though that could be a different story after the Island Splitter nailed Akainu, naturally.
Agreed.


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## RF (Nov 20, 2013)

It's not like they would fail every single time.


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## MINATO THE BLITZ (Nov 20, 2013)

i think mihawk is admiral level  and can hang it out with best while do flamingo can take on an admiral with the help of two other warlord like kuma  and hancock . and if we are considering moria at his prime he was able to go toe to toe with a yonko and add jinbe and croc  they could take it


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 20, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> It's not like they would fail every single time.


Depends on future offensive and Haki feats from the Commanders (has AK been to this thread yet?) and Akainu.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Nov 20, 2013)

It wasn't stated anywhere that Moriah gave trouble to Kaido, just that he was beaten till his nakama were all dead, which doesn't really help him in feats . 

Kizaru takes Moriah, Hancock, Kuma, Crocodile and Jinbe alone .
Fujitora drops some rocks and some gravity over Doflamingo .
Sakazuki roast Mihawk .

In worse case scenario Mihawk is Admiral level and get his ass handled by the trio .


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## LyricalMessiah (Nov 20, 2013)

Presuming the OP was talking about the trio logias; Admirals may be outnumbered by the sheer amount of force the Shishibukai carry, although it does not necessarily mean that the admirals would automatically lose... Quality over quantity here. Each individual Admirals could easily take on 3 shishibukais. The admirals are not only more efficient at fighting, overall being monsters in regards to durability and strength, but they have an advantage on defense and haki which should allow them to pressure the Shishibukais more than what the latter could possibly hope to do. This one might be closer than it looks. I'm confident Mihawk alone could take on Kizaru and defeat him, it just depends on how long the fight is and how worn out Mihawk is after. But after that the firepower gets a little weak. Unless Doflamingo is a top tier who is close to Yonko level, even with the combined efforts of Hancock, they probably couldn't take on either Akainu or Aokiji. Kuma is also a wild card here. In my situation, Doflo and Hancock would take on Akainu with the support of Law while the rest of the Shichi, lead by Kuma, try and stall Aokiji until Mihawk is done with his fight. Even then, Aokiji should be able to take out at least two of the Shichi is is fighting. Admirals win this with Akainu and Aokiji surviving unless Doflo and Kuma are close to being top tiers.


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## Beast (Nov 20, 2013)

Mirage said:


> *Presuming the OP was talking about the trio logias*; Admirals may be outnumbered by the sheer amount of force the Shishibukai carry, although it does not necessarily mean that the admirals would automatically lose... Quality over quantity here. Each individual Admirals could easily take on 3 shishibukais. The admirals are not only more efficient at fighting, overall being monsters in regards to durability and strength, but they have an advantage on defense and haki which should allow them to pressure the Shishibukais more than what the latter could possibly hope to do. This one might be closer than it looks. I'm confident Mihawk alone could take on Kizaru and defeat him, it just depends on how long the fight is and how worn out Mihawk is after. But after that the firepower gets a little weak. Unless Doflamingo is a top tier who is close to Yonko level, even with the combined efforts of Hancock, they probably couldn't take on either Akainu or Aokiji. Kuma is also a wild card here. In my situation, Doflo and Hancock would take on Akainu with the support of Law while the rest of the Shichi, lead by Kuma, try and stall Aokiji until Mihawk is done with his fight. Even then, Aokiji should be able to take out at least two of the Shichi is is fighting. Admirals win this with Akainu and Aokiji surviving unless Doflo and Kuma are close to being top tiers.


No, it's Kizaru, Akainu and *Fuji* now.

It came from an okay thread, where it could go either way... No the admirals don't lose... Not even close. Mid- high diff at worse for the admirals.


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## Lawliet (Nov 20, 2013)

What said:


> Burden of proof is on you, Lawliet.



If by that you mean I'm the one who should show proof of Mihawk's superiority, then no it's not on me. You all claim of fuji's superiority, why don't YOU show proof of that. I'm convinced deep down that Mihawk is the stronger between the two of them, I don't have to prove anything to angry closed minded people. If you wanna change my mind then go ahead and show some proof.


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## Forcer (Nov 20, 2013)

The Warlords can handle 2, 3 will be to much


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## trance (Nov 21, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> If by that you mean I'm the one who should show proof of Mihawk's superiority, then no it's not on me. You all claim of fuji's superiority, why don't YOU show proof of that. I'm convinced deep down that Mihawk is the stronger between the two of them, I don't have to prove anything to angry closed minded people. If you wanna change my mind then go ahead and show some proof.



How about Sakazuki? Do you think Mihawk is as strong as Sakazuki?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Nov 21, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> How about Sakazuki? Do you think Mihawk is as strong as Sakazuki?


Oh, I wonder if it's going to turn out like that one Akainu vs Mihawk thread...I'm going to enjoy the show in the meantime.


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## Lawliet (Nov 21, 2013)

Stαrkiller said:


> How about Sakazuki? Do you think Mihawk is as strong as Sakazuki?



I can't really answer that because I'm not really sure. They are both on the same level; however, eventually... Someone has to win. I'd say Akainu would win in a fight to the death, but it would be something much similar to Akainu vs Aokiji, both would suffer grave injuries if the winner decides to spare the loser.


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## Freechoice (Nov 21, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> If by that you mean I'm the one who should show proof of Mihawk's superiority, then no it's not on me. You all claim of fuji's superiority, why don't YOU show proof of that. I'm convinced deep down that Mihawk is the stronger between the two of them, I don't have to prove anything to angry closed minded people. If you wanna change my mind then go ahead and show some proof.



I don't even remember saying that 

Just disregard it


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## Kid (Nov 21, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> Mihawk defeats Kizaru high-extreme difficulty. By the end of his fight, Mihawk would be pretty roughed up, so he might not be able to do much to assist the other Warlords.



Why do you think that Mihawk can defeat Kizaru?


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## Lawliet (Nov 21, 2013)

Kid said:


> Why do you think that Mihawk can defeat Kizaru?



Well, They're all on the same level, more or less (Akainu,Aokiji,Kizaru,Mihawk). putting who above who is gonna be nothing but mere guesses/opinions.  I can't really give you enough reasoning because they're all bunch of theories.


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