# Glenn Beck: Leave Churches That Preach Social Justice



## Hachidaime (Mar 14, 2010)

> In his daily radio and television shows last week, Fox News personality Glenn Beck set out to convince his audience that "social justice," the term many Christian churches use to describe their efforts to address poverty and human rights, is a "code word" for communism and Nazism. Beck urged Christians to discuss the term with their priests and to leave their churches if leaders would not reconsider their emphasis on social justice.
> 
> "I'm begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words 'social justice' or 'economic justice' on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!"
> 
> Later, Beck held up cards, one with a hammer and sickle and other with a swastika. "Communists are on the left, and the Nazis are on the right. That's what people say. But they both subscribe to one philosophy, and they flew one banner. . . . But on each banner, read the words, here in America: 'social justice.' They talked about economic justice, rights of the workers, redistribution of wealth, and surprisingly, democracy."





GOD BLESS YOU GLENN BECK... an american HERO!!!!


right?


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## Lord Yu (Mar 14, 2010)

Glenn Beck is really out to destroy America in any way he can.


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## Hand Banana (Mar 14, 2010)

I just don't understand things and I'm not afraid to admit it. But sometimes theres a limit to as how far you can go. "Social justice" is something that will never be achieved in America. i like the idea of everyone being equal but its also a way to carry dead wight for others who don't want to work as hard and still receive handouts. Handouts in particular like Welfare checks. But saying its comparable to Communism is completely retard, ignorant, and far out of control.


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## Psycho (Mar 14, 2010)

glenn beck clearly never studied the soviet union


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## Subarashii (Mar 14, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> I just don't understand things and I'm not afraid to admit it. But sometimes theres a limit to as how far you can go. "Social justice" is something that will never be achieved in America. i like the idea of everyone being equal but its also a way to carry dead wight for others who don't want to work as hard and still receive handouts. Handouts in particular like Welfare checks. But saying its comparable to Communism is completely *retard, ignorant, and far out of control*.



Funny how Glenn Beck only says things that are retarded, illogical and far out of sanity.
He's kind of like...a fear mongering idiot who bestows upon ill-informed Americans his unjustified hate and bigotry.


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## hehey (Mar 14, 2010)

huh, a church's efforts tp deal with Poverty and Human rights equals Communists and Nazi?, and this guy is supposed to be a prominent conservative news guy?, i fear for the minds of the fools who watch this guys show.

Its a freaking church, churches have helped poor people for centuries, this guy needs to get fired.


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## sadated_peon (Mar 14, 2010)

This is nothing new, Glenn "goebbels" Beck is just doing what he does best. Making people afraid so that they will support anything he tell them will make them more secure.


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## Mintaka (Mar 14, 2010)

He's as anti american as they come.  Sad that some consider him an american hero.


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## Utopia Realm (Mar 14, 2010)

sadated_peon said:


> This is nothing new, Glenn "goebbels" Beck is just doing what he does best. Making people afraid so that they will support anything he tell them will make them more secure.



Nothing surprises me about this guy anymore...


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## masamune1 (Mar 14, 2010)

He is quite the psychopath, isn't he?


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## T4R0K (Mar 14, 2010)

Lesson : "If you help someone in need, YOU'RE A NAZI COMMUNIST JEW GAY MUSLIM BLACK CATHOLIC out to destroy America !!!!!!!!!"

...

Well, that's some clown you got there...


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## Xaosin (Mar 14, 2010)

Subarashii said:


> Funny how Glenn Beck only says things that are retarded, illogical and far out of sanity.
> He's kind of like...a fear mongering idiot who bestows upon ill-informed Americans his unjustified hate and bigotry.



He's pretty much a troll of society and scourge of the states.

That funny part about him is though,there are people out there that actually take him seriously.


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## Petenshi (Mar 14, 2010)

HA Glenn Beck is hilarious, did you guys see his interview with sarah palin? Even SHE realized he is a weirdo.


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## Suzuku (Mar 14, 2010)

I'd be very surprised if this wasn't posted already, since it happened like 5 days ago.


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## RAGING BONER (Mar 14, 2010)

Glenn Beck is one of the last American visionaries, he see's things for what they are and how they can be if we don't steer ourselves from this course of inevitable self destruction.

I'm surprised at his courage to tackle corrupt socialist aligned religious institutions...i would have thought he'd avoid such a touchy subject. Still, how could i hope to understand such a revolutionary thinker?


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## Dionysus (Mar 14, 2010)

And now a message from our sponsors.


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## Juno (Mar 14, 2010)

Then he's asking people to ditch christianity altogether since social justice - ie, helping the poor and less fortunate, is supposed to be one of the founding tenets of the religion. That's supposed to be its most admirable quality.

How the fuck did the US get into this position where helping others is seen as heralding in a mass murdering regime?

Shit, this country's a lost cause if he gets away with this...


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## dreams lie (Mar 14, 2010)

How horribly apt.  



> Then he's asking people to ditch christianity altogether since social justice - ie, helping the poor and less fortunate, is supposed to be one of the founding tenets of the religion. That's supposed to be its most admirable quality.



I forget the exact quote, but it was said that without Christianity's efforts in social justice, it would be quickly forgotten as yet another set of bizarre rituals and superstitions.


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## saprobe (Mar 14, 2010)

So Glenn Beck is saying that he likes the controlling, rigidly ordered parts of religion but hates the part where they try to help people. 

You know, I recently discovered that Glenn Beck is a Mormon. Maybe this is just an underhanded move to drive people out of their churches--and INTO THE FOLDS OF THE LDS!!! I CALLED IT.


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## Juno (Mar 14, 2010)

saprobe said:
			
		

> You know, I recently discovered that Glenn Beck is a Mormon.



My. God.

I am both shocked and unsurprised. My faith in reality has been shaken.


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## Petenshi (Mar 14, 2010)

Mormon you say? Well that sir makes this all the more sweeter. Here is another funny article, with video included! 

Who allowed Glenn Beck to get this far? Somebody needs to get him a therapist.


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## g_core18 (Mar 14, 2010)

Glenn Beck should put his face in a blender and make a bullshit smoothie.


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## Elim Rawne (Mar 14, 2010)

He is quite correct.I wish the liberal agenda would stop harping on this man.He only tells the truth


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## Vanthebaron (Mar 15, 2010)

must...shoot...beck...in...the..head


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## Megaharrison (Mar 15, 2010)

The man is an inadvertent mad genius. Saying wacky things like this just makes him richer and richer. It's like Bareback Mountain, it became such a center of media and social attention that tons of people went to go see it. And I say inadvertent because I think he is deeply emotional and serious of what he preaches, that or he's a good actor. If it's the latter then he's awesome and my new role model.

Anyway one has to wonder how exactly Communism and Nazism can be used interchangably given the fact that both fought to eradicate the other.

Though Glenn Beck  is still his greatest moment, and he's gonna have to work hard to try and top that.


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## MF NaruSimpson (Mar 15, 2010)

Megaharrison said:


> The man is an inadvertent mad genius. Saying wacky things like this just makes him richer and richer. It's like Bareback Mountain, it became such a center of media and social attention that tons of people went to go see it. And I say inadvertent because I think he is deeply emotional and serious of what he preaches, that or he's a good actor. If it's the latter then he's awesome and my new role model.
> 
> Anyway one has to wonder how exactly Communism and Nazism can be used interchangably given the fact that both fought to eradicate the other.
> 
> Though Glenn Beck  is still his greatest moment, and he's gonna have to work hard to try and top that.



brokeback mountain, but i'll leave it at that.


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## Agmaster (Mar 15, 2010)

Edit; "Forget about the frogs."  I laughed.
I can't wait until he gets caught in a gay scandal with a minority whose from a country with socialized healthcare.


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## Razgriez (Mar 15, 2010)

narutosimpson said:


> brokeback mountain, but i'll leave it at that.



Yeah the movie was called Brokeback Mountain but Mega is still right. The man is a genius at catching people's attention and getting them to listen to him despite that crazy loony shit he says.

There are a few too many people on these forums that underestimate fox news, and the republican party. While its full of bigots these guys have managed to shut down anything the democrats have been able to do while they have been in office and turned the American people onto their side.


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## Mintaka (Mar 15, 2010)

GET OFF MY PHONE!!!!


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## Petenshi (Mar 15, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> Yeah the movie was called Brokeback Mountain but Mega is still right. The man is a genius at catching people's attention and getting them to listen to him despite that crazy loony shit he says.
> 
> There are a few too many people on these forums that underestimate fox news, and the republican party. While its full of bigots *these guys have managed to shut down anything the democrats have been able to do while they have been in office and turned the American people onto their side.*



The democrats are pansies these days it seems, and it isn't that hard to convince the kind of target audience they want(I.e God fearing rednecks and the like.)


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 15, 2010)

In America the Church is becoming inextricably intertwined with Capitalism.

Doesn't do much to the economic message but it doesn't have a positive one on the faith.

Am I the only one who recalls Jesus driving out the money lenders?


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## T4R0K (Mar 15, 2010)

The Pink Ninja said:


> In America the Church is becoming inextricably intertwined with Capitalism.
> 
> Doesn't do much to the economic message but it doesn't have a positive one on the faith.
> 
> Am I the only one who recalls Jesus driving out the money lenders?



I wonder when some churches will ask for a yearly cotisation to be a member... 

I fear such a dialogue might become a reality if some listen too much to that Beck person :


*Spoiler*: __ 



Believer "Hello ! Nice Sunday today, isn't it ? Perfect for taking my little family to meet with the Lord !"
Door Keeper "Yeah, it is. May I say your membership card ?"
B "Wh... What ? Well, that's a new one ! I'm a believer coming to the House of the Lord, so I don't need one as long as I believe Jesus is my lord and saviour"
DK "yeah, but you still can't enter without it."
B "Ooook... So how do I get one ?"
DK "It's $100 a year. It's cheap when you think about it !"
B "... I get it for the church's fund, but isn't it denying believers the right to join in with other worshippers without restraint and with a free mind ?"
DK "No cotisation, no entry. You can still pray at home if you want. The reverend can come to your house for $25 a visit. If you come every Sunday, isn't it more economical ?"
B "... Goddamnit !"


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## Tkae (Mar 15, 2010)

> communism and Nazism.



These are two mutually exclusive ideas 

Communism is a political ideology all to its own.

Nazism, literally, Nationalsozialismus, or, Nationalist Socialism, is a form of Socialism emphasizing a duty to the state out of pride and patriotism, or, Nationalism.

And not only are they different, Nazism preaches a distrust of both Capitalism _and_ Communism. So to use them in the same sentence together as concepts with any relation to one another is stupidity.

I don't know much about Glenn Beck, but I can already tell that he's an idiot.

He, along with Howard Stern, Al Sharpton, Rush Limbaugh, and that other guy who got in trouble last year for calling a women's basketball team "nappy-heads" don't need to be on the air. Take them off, please


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## Jello Biafra (Mar 15, 2010)

Tkae said:


> These are two mutually exclusive ideas
> 
> Communism is a political ideology all to its own.
> 
> ...



"National Socialism" only billed itself as such because in 1920s and 30s Germany, you couldn't get elected without being a socialist of some sort. While there was a genuinely anti-capitalist wing of the Nazi Party, they were marginalized before being purged in the Night of Long Knives. 

Nazis in practice were supported by middle and upper class businessmen as a bulwark against socialism and trade unionism.


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## Tkae (Mar 15, 2010)

Sama'el said:


> "National Socialism" only billed itself as such because in 1920s and 30s Germany, you couldn't get elected without being a socialist of some sort. While there was a genuinely anti-capitalist wing of the Nazi Party, they were marginalized before being purged in the Night of Long Knives.
> 
> Nazis in practice were supported by middle and upper class businessmen as a bulwark against socialism and trade unionism.



My argument wasn't so much that they were socialist as that they _weren't_ communist.

I don't think Nazism appropriately falls under any kind of economic definition. Their entire economy was based on being a war machine, and their entire political system was based on being anything that would damage their enemies the most.

One of which was communism.

So my point remains the same


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## TDM (Mar 15, 2010)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Am I the only one who recalls Jesus driving out the money lenders?


Shit, does anybody really remember _any_ of Jesus's actual teachings?


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## The Pink Ninja (Mar 15, 2010)

TDM said:


> Shit, does anybody really remember _any_ of Jesus's actual teachings?



Only the ones about how Hell is agonising, forever and that almost everyone will end up there.


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## Rescuebear (Mar 15, 2010)

Why do you let people like this on tv? Seriously.


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## saprobe (Mar 15, 2010)

^ Fox News. Srsly.


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## Disquiet (Mar 15, 2010)

So Glenn Beck is a twat?

This isn't surprising any more.


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## stab-o-tron5000 (Mar 15, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Mormon you say? Well that sir makes this all the more sweeter. Here is another funny article, with video included!
> 
> Who allowed Glenn Beck to get this far? *Somebody needs to get him a *the*rapist.*



Here, fixed that for ya.


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## AlphaRooster (Mar 15, 2010)

You peoples ignorance overwhelmes me at times. I've been listening to this guy for nearly a decade now. Maybe if one of you actually listened to him for some time, you might actually understand what he's talking about.

Just because you listen to soundbites from media sources that are trying to destroy him should make you question them in the first place. Why don't you fucking read the books he talks about, understand his point of view. Then make a EDUCATED decision on him.

The fact that most of you actually believe John Stewart, Liberal Media, or that SNL are actually funny, or honest, or even factual in there comments....well it saddens me.

You may call me a Beck Whore, but i actually do more than listen, I read and study the very things that these people (I.E Rush, Glenn, etc..), gives me at least an honest opinion of these people.

  You people need to get your head out of you asses, and look up the info for yourself, and make an opinion. Then you'll actually see that this segment isn't so much about the churches themselves, but the Progessivism that is hiding within the churches to destroy them. *Social Justice* is a keyword used by progessives. So he's just giving people a heads up.


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## dummy plug (Mar 15, 2010)

ah yes, they like mixing politics with religion


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## Pilaf (Mar 15, 2010)




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## Kensei (Mar 15, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> You people need to get your head out of you asses, and look up the info for yourself, and make an opinion. Then you'll actually see that this segment isn't so much about the churches themselves, but the Progessivism that is hiding within the churches to destroy them. *Social Justice* is a keyword used by progessives. So he's just giving people a heads up.



Social justice has been a part of church for a long time, and it existed even before marx.



> The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s.The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage.



Social Justice has been a long standing part of religion. So, it is as simple as Glenn Beck being an idiot fear-monger.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 15, 2010)

Glenn Beck is a walking commercial for the Mormon, church, he mentions it all the time.


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## Kensei (Mar 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Glenn Beck is a walking commercial for the Mormon, church, he mentions it all the time.



Funny thing is, the mormon church also preaches social justice.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 15, 2010)

Kensei said:


> Funny thing is, the mormon church also preaches social justice.


Mormonism is a troll religion.


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## Hinako (Mar 15, 2010)

Kensei said:


> Social justice has been a part of church for a long time, and it existed even before marx.
> 
> 
> 
> Social Justice has been a long standing part of religion. So, it is as simple as Glenn Beck being an idiot fear-monger.


1840s eh? Wasn't that around the time the communist manifesto was made? Oh yes, it was!!


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## Kensei (Mar 15, 2010)

Hinako said:


> 1840s eh? Wasn't that around the time the communist manifesto was made? Oh yes, it was!!



The first english translation wasn't til the 1850s.


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## Razgriez (Mar 15, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> You peoples ignorance overwhelmes me at times. I've been listening to this guy for nearly a decade now. Maybe if one of you actually listened to him for some time, you might actually understand what he's talking about.
> 
> Just because you listen to soundbites from media sources that are trying to destroy him should make you question them in the first place. Why don't you fucking read the books he talks about, understand his point of view. Then make a EDUCATED decision on him.
> 
> ...



Glenn Beck is a crazy lunatic. While he does have some truth(sometimes) in what he says he a lot of the time just yaps some crazy shit. Hes a entertainer first. Remember that.

Rush is well owned by the republican party. You definitely shouldnt listen to a think that man says other then to get a perspective of how much of a leeching fat piece of shit is. He is nothing more then a tool designed to to brainwash you.


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## Hinako (Mar 15, 2010)

Kensei said:


> The first english translation wasn't til the 1850s.


 So, that's irrelevant. 

It's actually kind of funny, that the terms left wingers are using now were used by the very religious teachings they are hating on.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 15, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> You peoples ignorance overwhelmes me at times. I've been listening to this guy for nearly a decade now. Maybe if one of you actually listened to him for some time, you might actually understand what he's talking about.
> 
> Just because you listen to soundbites from media sources that are trying to destroy him should make you question them in the first place. Why don't you fucking read the books he talks about, understand his point of view. Then make a EDUCATED decision on him.
> 
> ...



There's a difference between finding something like the Daily Show funny and agreeing with it. 

Glenn Beck is just crazy and the fact that you think this is anything other than more of his BS is kind of scary. You seem to be spitting the same rhetoric he does.


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## Petenshi (Mar 15, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> You peoples ignorance overwhelmes me at times. I've been listening to this guy for nearly a decade now. Maybe if one of you actually listened to him for some time, you might actually understand what he's talking about.
> 
> Just because you listen to soundbites from media sources that are trying to destroy him should make you question them in the first place. Why don't you fucking read the books he talks about, understand his point of view. Then make a EDUCATED decision on him.
> 
> ...




I have listened to him. I listened to him creep the hell out of Sarah Palin, I watched him present his arguments against progressivism where he extends his ignorance to tell us libraries aren't funded by taxes, and I have seen him cry on T.V because he thinks america is turning into some terrible place. Sorry, he is a lunatic.

Also, the daily show often brings up good points. Jon Stewart may not be as formal as most journalists, but often times he actually has real news bringing up real issues. He just does it in a way that mocks it, rather than just discussing it.


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## Munak (Mar 15, 2010)

I never understood the line "succeeding on your own merit", anyways.

Sorry, Beck, can't see why you'd beat an imaginary goat.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 15, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> I have listened to him. I listened to him creep the hell out of Sarah Palin, I watched him present his arguments against progressivism where he extends his ignorance to tell us libraries aren't funded by taxes, and I have seen him cry on T.V because he thinks america is turning into some terrible place. Sorry, he is a lunatic.
> 
> Also, the daily show often brings up good points. Jon Stewart may not be as formal as most journalists, but often times he actually has real news bringing up real issues. He just does it in a way that mocks it, rather than just discussing it.



John Stewart is not a journalist. In fact he has literally face palmed when other people try to call him a journalists.


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## Petenshi (Mar 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> John Stewart is not a journalist. In fact he has literally face palmed when other people try to call him a journalists.



Thats because he doesn't actually go out and get the news, my point is, its not like everything he says is just made up. It has some factual basis.


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## AlphaRooster (Mar 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> There's a difference between finding something like the Daily Show funny and agreeing with it.
> 
> Glenn Beck is just crazy and the fact that you think this is anything other than more of his BS is kind of scary. You seem to be spitting the same rhetoric he does.



Listen. I agree Glenn can be over-the-top at times, but my point was that people need to actually read up on the facts and dive into the issues. 

People just like to hate. I know i'm a big minority here, but get annoyed when people spout idiotic rhetoric about things they don't understand. We are no different, we are both influenced by media, we just happen to be on the opposite sides. 

Unlike the liberal media, who i feel to be sneaky and dishonest, i believe the "right" media at least gives me material as a source. If they say something that I am unsure on, i can look it up. Whereas the rest of the media spouts off crap. They give me no source material and no reason to believe them.

  I hate the way the American government is, and is going. I want everyone of them to not be voted. Glenn Beck simply gives me reasons and facts and sources to support my thoughts. Unlike the rest of the media who treat me like i'm an idiot, and tell me i'm stupid for having an opinion other than theirs.

  Glenn Becks rant on the Social justice, is a small part of his rant on what he believes, and a huge chunk of people believe, to be the downfall of the US.

  I have yet to see one person to give me a factual statement to counter these thoughts. It's just "American RiTE IZ DUMBz, you Dumbz too."


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## hehey (Mar 15, 2010)

^^All Glenn Beck ever does is fear mongering, and besides, any of these person on tv who ever believed that nonsense about death panels or killing grandma is obviously either an idiot or just crazy, and should not be taken seriously (and Glenn beck is one of those people).


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## Petenshi (Mar 15, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> Listen. I agree Glenn can be over-the-top at times, but my point was that people need to actually read up on the facts and dive into the issues.
> 
> People just like to hate. I know i'm a big minority here, but get annoyed when people spout idiotic rhetoric about things they don't understand. We are no different, we are both influenced by media, we just happen to be on the opposite sides.
> 
> ...



Can you give me evidence of THIS? What channel do you watch, because it certainly isn't FOX. If you think the right winged media is telling you the truth you have another thing coming. I am not saying liberals are trustworthy, but they at least make rational statements and not go on radical tangents that has nothing to do with the actual news story. Like calling the story where teachers  taught children a song for black history month and it had Obama in it, indoctrination. 

Also, just so I can queue my list of documents countering the thoughts, which thoughts in particular are you talking about. Just this one?


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## strongarm85 (Mar 15, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Thats because he doesn't actually go out and get the news, my point is, its not like everything he says is just made up. It has some factual basis.



Providing comedic information using information that is based on facts is not Journalism. Glenn Beck is every bit as much a journalist and John Stewart is. That is to say he isn't one, and John Stewart isn't a journalist either.


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## Petenshi (Mar 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Providing comedic information using information that is based on facts is not Journalism. Glenn Beck is every bit as much a journalist and John Stewart is. That is to say he isn't one, and John Stewart isn't a journalist either.



I am not disagreeing, I am saying Jon Stewart provides more actual news that you can lookup and go 'Wow, that actually happened in the way he said it did.' than most news outlets. Because its a comedy show, I am not getting my news from it, but watching other channels it has the exact line of stories.


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## Razgriez (Mar 15, 2010)

Really the best way to get the news is to look at both sides. Watch and listen to Glen Beck and Rush but at the same time listen to the liberal side as well. Get both sides of the spectrum then look at a few 3rd party outlets as well then form your own opinion.

Maybe then you'll be able to tell the lunatics from the ones actually giving you the straight truth.


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## TDM (Mar 16, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> Really the best way to get the news is to look at both sides. Watch and listen to Glen Beck and Rush but at the same time listen to the liberal side as well. Get both sides of the spectrum then look at a few 3rd party outlets as well then form your own opinion.
> 
> Maybe then you'll be able to tell the lunatics from the ones actually giving you the straight truth.


Yeah, but if you look at both ends of the spectrum, you'll just come away thinking _everybody's_ a lunatic.


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## Momoka (Mar 16, 2010)

Social Justice means what?!!


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## strongarm85 (Mar 16, 2010)

♥~Momolicious~♥ said:


> Social Justice means what?!!





> Social justice is the application of the concept of justice on a social scale.
> 
> The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s.[citation needed] The idea was elaborated by the moral theologian John A. Ryan, who initiated the concept of a living wage. Father Coughlin used the term in his publications in the 1930s and 40s, and the concept was further expanded upon by John Rawls' writing in the 1990s. It is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by the worldwide green parties.
> 
> Social justice is also a concept that some use to describe the movement towards a socially just world. In this context, social justice is based on the concepts of human rights and equality and involves a greater degree of economic egalitarianism achieved through income redistribution and often (though not necessarily) through progressive taxation or even property redistribution. Such policies are aimed toward achieving that which developmental economists refer to as more equality of opportunity and equality of outcome that may currently exist in some societies or are available to some classes in a given society.



Basically Social Justice is the idea that everybody deserves to have an equal resources and equal opportunities to succeed in life and that the way to achieve that is by taking it from the rich and giving to the poor.

The idea of Social Justice is the corner stone of Socialism.


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## Stalin (Mar 16, 2010)

Half of his viewers only watch him because he's crazy.


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## Deleted member 84471 (Mar 16, 2010)

Someone should drop the fat cunt in Somalia, see how he likes real-world anarchy.


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## spankdatbitch (Mar 16, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Basically Social Justice is the idea that everybody deserves to have an equal resources and equal opportunities to succeed in life and that the way to achieve that is by taking it from the rich and giving to the poor.
> 
> The idea of Social Justice is the corner stone of Socialism.



 So when the rich Conservatives cry "SOCIALIST" they're basically saying "I'm a greedy mother fucker,and I refuse to share with those less fortune than me."

And many of the middle class Conservatives are cute and easily led little lemmings that oppose anything their 'Idols' say they should.Honestly,have you seen the stupidity of some of these people?

They'll vote for practically anyone if they claim to be a fundamentalist Christian,and say they are pro life.How the hell else can you explain an idiot like Bush getting elected twice?

The way Beck and the other crazies talk,Obama wants to tax the Rich boys and girls until they're middle class themselves.

STFU Beck,an extra 10% of revenue to the government ain't gonna break you and your rich buddies.


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## Kira Yamato (Mar 19, 2010)

Wow Glenn. When you think of Social Justice, Nazi's and Communists is the first thing that's come to mind


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## Kahvehane (Mar 19, 2010)

Psycho said:


> glenn beck clearly never studied the soviet union



I think it would be safe to say that Glenn Beck has never taken the time to study a number of things....


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## αce (Mar 19, 2010)

Jesus was a socialist. And that's being modest, he probably would have accepted a communist ideology.


All these capitalism religious loving republican/conservatives don't know jack about Jesus.


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## Seto Kaiba (Mar 19, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> Listen. I agree Glenn can be over-the-top at times, but my point was that people need to actually read up on the facts and dive into the issues.



He's often over the top. 



> People just like to hate. I know i'm a big minority here, but get annoyed when people spout idiotic rhetoric about things they don't understand. We are no different, we are both influenced by media, we just
> happen to be on the opposite sides.



Ironic. All people like Beck do is perpetuate hate and fear in their viewers, along with ignorance while spouting idiotic rhetoric time and time again about things they do understand, or if they do, they dumb it down immensely.

Beck is fringe right, and that unfortunately seems to becoming mainstream right over the past years. 



> Unlike the liberal media, who i feel to be sneaky and dishonest, i believe the "right" media at least gives me material as a source. If they say something that I am unsure on, i can look it up. Whereas the rest of the media spouts off crap. They give me no source material and no reason to believe them.



FOX, Limbaugh, Coulter represent the "right" media in the U.S., and they hardly have a reputation for being honest and straightforward types. People like you always go on about the "liberal media", yet always so damn vague about it, and when you aren't it just comes off as some insane paranoia. It's no surprise if you are an avid viewer of Beck and find most every other news station liberal. Beck and FOX in general lean so far to the right that every other source of news is naturally going to look more liberal in comparison. The only mainstream news source on TV that I've seen that could compare to FOX on the opposite side is MSNBC. 

News stations do have many problems today, but being ideologically slanted politically isn't one of them. Misinformation, vague information, gimmicks, and only valuing ratings and stories that garner them for example. That's what plagues modern news in general.



> I hate the way the American government is, and is going. I want everyone of them to not be voted.



Everyone feels that way...not just right-wingers and conservatives. 



> Glenn Beck simply gives me reasons and facts and sources to support my thoughts. Unlike the rest of the media who treat me like i'm an idiot, and tell me i'm stupid for having an opinion other than theirs.



He gives out the BS of fear, paranoia and misinformation. He DOES treat you like an idiot and pretty much the same for many of the talking heads on that station, especially since they can continue to feed viewers absolute crap, know they do so, and expect you not to know either way. 



> Glenn Becks rant on the Social justice, is a small part of his rant on what he believes, and a huge chunk of people believe, to be the downfall of the US.



There are a lot of idiotic people in this country then.



> I have yet to see one person to give me a factual statement to counter these thoughts. It's just "American RiTE IZ DUMBz, you Dumbz too."



"Fact" seems to be an subjective term to fringe right-wingers like Beck. It's too funny that you keep talking about facts yet admit to watching Beck. People like you before have claimed that watching his programs in its full context paints a different picture. To your credit, that is true, it does a paint a different picture. A worse one. You really get an understanding of how bad it really is.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 19, 2010)

I always lol when the crazy right goes after Jesus and the mesages he put out.  

That only leaves the parts of the bible that involve mass murder, child rape, etc afterwards.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Mar 19, 2010)

lol Glenn Beck.


----------



## Elias (Mar 19, 2010)

The sad part is that his following is growing.


----------



## Random Nobody (Mar 20, 2010)

Wait so wanting to help the poor and supporting human rights means your a communist?


Well I have always been partial to the color red.....


----------



## Petenshi (Mar 20, 2010)

Random Nobody said:


> Wait so wanting to help the poor and supporting human rights means your a communist?
> 
> 
> Well I have always been partial to the color red.....



Thats because red is sexy, and the communists know it .


----------



## Random Nobody (Mar 20, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Thats because red is sexy, and the communists know it .





100% Truth.


----------



## Mintaka (Mar 20, 2010)

Elias said:


> The sad part is that his following is growing.


Does this not disturb you just a tad?

Sure they're a joke for now....although I just can't help but wonder how large this could get.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Providing comedic information using information that is based on facts is not Journalism. Glenn Beck is every bit as much a journalist and John Stewart is. That is to say he isn't one, and John Stewart isn't a journalist either.


The difference is that Stewart never uses religion or subjective things like that to prove his points, they're based on all facts. All too often Glenn Beck goes off on this stuff with chalk boards and acronyms and people seem to think all that actually means something. 

While Stewart makes fun of the news, he doesn't fabricate it. He's less sensationalist and more factual than some of the news stations themselves.


----------



## Gooba (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sure Jesus preached social justice.  Is he saying everyone should leave Christianity?


----------



## IBU (Mar 20, 2010)

Dirty commies.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2010)

AestheticizeAnalog said:


> Dirty commies.


I doubt Glenn Beck likes Catholics that much. You have to remember, he's closer to Evangelicals than he ever would be to a strictly organized Church.


----------



## IBU (Mar 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I doubt Glenn Beck likes Catholics that much. You have to remember, he's closer to Evangelicals than he ever would be to a strictly organized Church.



Oh I know that.

I am just very sympathetic to Catholic Social Teaching and Liberation Theology, despite being a non-believer. Thus, I find it entertaining and hilarious when a Christian is critical of social justice in relation to Christian teaching, as it seems to me to be the cornerstone of most social morality in the West at least.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2010)

AestheticizeAnalog said:


> Oh I know that.
> 
> I am just very sympathetic to Catholic Social Teaching and Liberation Theology, despite being a non-believer. Thus, I find it entertaining and hilarious when a Christian is critical of social justice in relation to Christian teaching, as it seems to me to be the cornerstone of most social morality in the West at least.


We went over some of the Catholic Social teaching in high school and I agreed with some of it, I don't think it we should be strictly socialist in the economic sense but I believe that when it comes to our rights, we all have a right to life and that life should be healthy, not just living.


----------



## IBU (Mar 20, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> We went over some of the Catholic Social teaching in high school and I agreed with some of it, I don't think it we should be strictly socialist in the economic sense but I believe that when it comes to our rights, we all have a right to life and that life should be healthy, not just living.



I think it is a blatant misunderstanding of Catholic Social Teaching to view it as strictly socialist (although liberation theology is). Catholic Social Teaching is very much meant to achieve organic bottom up community while maintaining individual dignity, and enterprise. It is quite similar to the tradition in Canada known as Red Toryism that bases itself on the Common Good and tries to balance collective concerns and organic, rather than bureaucratic community, with individualism.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 20, 2010)

AestheticizeAnalog said:


> I think it is a blatant misunderstanding of Catholic Social Teaching to view it as strictly socialist (although liberation theology is). Catholic Social Teaching is very much meant to achieve organic bottom up community while maintaining individual dignity, and enterprise. It is quite similar to the tradition in Canada known as Red Toryism that bases itself on the Common Good and tries to balance collective concerns and organic, rather than bureaucratic community, with individualism.


I think that if it wasn't for the bad name of Socialism in the 1950s and after, Catholicism wouldn't have distanced itself with these theories nearly as much in today's world. Though I have yet to see any hardline talk of Obama being Socialist among Catholics, he is disliked for other reasons. 

Though every Sunday, I wake up around the time the Coral Ridge Hour comes on and I can see their blatant fear mongering and hatred toward the current government. One of the things they constantly bring up is how so many people have socialists tendencies.


----------



## AlphaRooster (Mar 21, 2010)

Wow. I am so lost here. What the hell are you people complaining about? I mean what's your point. Here's mine:

I DO NOT want the government to support me
I DO NOT want the government to force me to give my money to others or to causes which i don't believe in
I DO NOT want the government to force me to healthcare that i haven't chosen
I DO NOT want the government to change the constitution to change the system of check and balances that America has formed
I DO NOT want the government force businesses to do things the government thinks is right. This means meddling in the free market system.
    I Believe Government had no right to buy out GM. I DO NOT want my money to go to unions which i believe destroyed the American auto industry. This is unfair to every other automaker
I DO NOT want my government to spend an obscene amount of money that we do not have to pay for programs that will cost even more. Such as healthcare, which i believe is wrong in the first place.
   China owns America because they are backing up our debt that we can't afford to pay back.
AMERICAN GOVNMENT is by the people for the people, anything else is unamerican. Americans want the government to stop spending money. They are not, this is unamerican

Anything other than this points to communism, socialism, monarchism, totalitarism. These are NOT american ideals.

These are some of the things Glenn believes in, so do I. I listen because we agree, nothing more.This doesn't mean I don't believe in helping the poor, it means i don't want people to ask or expect handouts. Get a job anyjob. If it's not enough then i'll support you. I will NOT pay for you to sit on your ass and go to the hospital on my dime. If you can't afford a kid, keep your fucking legs closed. 

If you want to argue this, give me exact things to disagree with, then i can properly debate it with you.


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> The difference is that Stewart never uses religion or subjective things like that to prove his points, they're based on all facts. All too often Glenn Beck goes off on this stuff with chalk boards and acronyms and people seem to think all that actually means something.
> 
> While Stewart makes fun of the news, he doesn't fabricate it. He's less sensationalist and more factual than some of the news stations themselves.



The only fabrication here is your argument. You have proof that Glenn Beck is lying? Bring it in to the argument. Unless you are willing to take that step you really have nothing to say.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> AMERICAN GOVNMENT is by the people for the people, anything else is unamerican. Americans want the government to stop spending money. They are not, this is unamerican



Polls show that 70% of america supports a public option.  Since it's by the peaople, for the people, we should be doign it right?  Or is it only By the People for things you support, and By Myself for everything else?



> If you can't afford a kid, keep your fucking legs closed.



What about teenagers who the right supports only teachign abstience only?  If these ignorant children become pregnant becuase of your policies impact on them, that's their own problem?  Oh yes, and once you fuck em over there, the right supports not allowing them to have abortions.


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Polls show that 70% of america supports a public option.  Since it's by the peaople, for the people, we should be doign it right?  Or is it only By the People for things you support, and By Myself for everything else?
> 
> 
> 
> What about teenagers who the right supports only teachign abstience only?  If these ignorant children become pregnant becuase of your policies impact on them, that's their own problem?  Oh yes, and once you fuck em over there, the right supports not allowing them to have abortions.



There are no poles suggesting that 70% of Americans support a public option. That is a blatant lie.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> There are no* poles* suggesting that 70% of Americans support a public option. That is a blatant lie.



Seems quite right


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> The only fabrication here is your argument. You have proof that Glenn Beck is lying? Bring it in to the argument. Unless you are willing to take that step you really have nothing to say.



He's not lying, but I hardly call using letters on a chalk board and acronyms proves there's an evil socialist conspiracy in the government. I mean its true that you can take certain words out of other words. But just because cutting out "tai" in "certain" spells CERN doesn't mean that CERN and the people of Tai ethnic group are plotting together to make me say this.


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> He's not lying, but I hardly call using letters on a chalk board and acronyms proves there's an evil socialist conspiracy in the government. I mean its true that you can take certain words out of other words. But just because cutting out "tai" in "certain" spells CERN doesn't mean that CERN and the people of Tai ethnic group are plotting together to make me say this.



Glenn Beck has never once done what you are describing him of doing there, which says to me don't know what your talking about and have no credibility on the subject.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> There are no poles suggesting that 70% of Americans support a public option. That is a blatant lie.





No polls at all, huh? And there are many others with numbers over 60% and 70%.



strongarm85 said:


> Glenn Beck has never once done what you are describing him of doing there, which says to me don't know what your talking about and have no credibility on the subject.



Apparently you forgot the whole Oligarchy scenario.


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Diceman said:


> Seems quite right



There are no polls that suggest it either.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> There are no polls that suggest it either.





Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> No polls at all, huh? And there are many others with numbers over 60% and 70%.



Should've stuck with the Polish


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> No polls at all, huh? And there are many others with numbers over 60%.



If that is the best you've got then your poll fails sir. That Poll is almost a year old with a sample size of only 895 people, which is tiny by national poll standards. 

A poll is a snapshot, and over 9 months makes a world of difference. It is way past the point of being outdated.

Looks like you spoke too soon Diceman


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> If that is the best you've got then your poll fails sir. That Poll is almost a year old with a sample size of only 895 people, which is tiny by national poll standards.
> 
> A poll is a snapshot, and over 9 months makes a world of difference. It is way past the point of being outdated.
> 
> Looks like you spoke too soon Diceman



If I recall, you said no polls at all.  Now you change your criteria cause you are clearly incorrect.  How comedic.


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> If I recall, you said no polls at all.  Now you change your criteria cause you are clearly incorrect.  How comedic.



I didn't have to change anything. If you knew anything about statistics polls aren't worth the paper it's printed after one month. The only use that poll has at this point is for historians.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Looks like you spoke too soon Diceman



You said there are no poles.There is a poll.I'm quite correct


----------



## strongarm85 (Mar 21, 2010)

There are a lot of things invalidate that poll, such as the sample size of only 895 people.

895 is less than 1/335,195th of US population.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> There are a lot of things invalidate that poll, such as the sample size of only 895 people.
> 
> 895 is less than 1/335,195th of US population.





600 people from 9 different potential songressional swing states each, so over 5k people for that one.  Much more recent.  Betwen 56-68% for each state.


----------



## AlphaRooster (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> What about teenagers who the right supports only teachign abstience only?  If these ignorant children become pregnant becuase of your policies impact on them, that's their own problem?  Oh yes, and once you fuck em over there, the right supports not allowing them to have abortions.



Just to clear this up, I am not conservative, fullblooded athiest. I agree if a teen gets pregnant, i blame the teens involved and parents. Those and those alone should be held responsible. Irregardless of your thoughts on abortion, I do not feel that those who disagree with should have to pay for it. The new healthcare policy has an amendment that makes everyone pays for it. To me this is wrong beyond all shadow of the doubt.

I believe in Abstinence. I don't see what's wrong with supporting it, and don't understand how being abstinent would make a teen pregnant?  In what world do parents want their teens to have kids? I'm not even looking at this religiously. If you disagree with this i can't argue with you. That would be beyond my understanding.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> Just to clear this up, I am not conservative, fullblooded athiest. I agree if a teen gets pregnant, i blame the teens involved and parents. Those and those alone should be held responsible. Irregardless of your thoughts on abortion, I do not feel that those who disagree with should have to pay for it. The new healthcare policy has an amendment that makes everyone pays for it. To me this is wrong beyond all shadow of the doubt.



Care to point out this amendment exactly please?  Also, I have a problem with my money going to farm subsidies, why are you not bitching about that.

Also, how can you blame a teen for something you left them entirely ignorant of?

Also, your views seam to align right with the conservative agenda.  Are you one of those people like Glenn Beck who says "I'm not conservative, I'm a Libertarian!"  without even understanding the libertarian agenda?  (being a Libertarian myself, that shit pisses me off quite a bit)



> I believe in Abstinence. I don't see what's wrong with supporting it, and don't understand how being abstinent would make a teen pregnant?  In what world do parents want their teens to have kids? I'm not even looking at this religiously. If you disagree with this i can't argue with you. That would be beyond my understanding.



There is a difference between Abstinence education, and Abstinence ONLY education.  I have a problem with the later.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 21, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> Just to clear this up, I am not conservative, fullblooded athiest. I agree if a teen gets pregnant, i blame the teens involved and parents. Those and those alone should be held responsible. Irregardless of your thoughts on abortion, I do not feel that those who disagree with should have to pay for it. The new healthcare policy has an amendment that makes everyone pays for it. To me this is wrong beyond all shadow of the doubt.
> 
> I believe in Abstinence. I don't see what's wrong with supporting it, and don't understand how being abstinent would make a teen pregnant?  In what world do parents want their teens to have kids? I'm not even looking at this religiously. If you disagree with this i can't argue with you. That would be beyond my understanding.



Most atheists hate abstinence because they seem to think that there's no reason not to have sex except if you're some kind of "religious idiot", they forget about STDs, condoms not being fool proof, and the fact that kids are inherently stupid, naive and think themselves invincible. 

Also, your money is going to go to things you don't want it to go to. I don't give a darn about the environment but some of my money goes to protecting it.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Most atheists hate abstinence because they seem to think that there's no reason not to have sex except if you're some kind of "religious idiot", they forget about STDs, condoms not being fool proof, and* the fact that kids are inherently stupid, naive and think themselves invincible.*



That right there is the reason Abstinence only education does not work.



> Also, your money is going to go to things you don't want it to go to. I don't give a darn about the environment but some of my money goes to protecting it.



I don't want my money going to illegal wars in Iraq or Afgahnistan, but it still did.  I can't think of anyone who agrees with every dime the government spends.  Hell, I am goign to college atm, and the government pays all by tution fees, and pays me extra jsut for going. (G.I. Bill!) which I am sure ticks off a whole bunch of people.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Mar 21, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:


> Wow. I am so lost here. What the hell are you people complaining about? I mean what's your point. Here's mine:





AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want the government to support me


Stop using public roads. Drop out of school. Stop drinking tap water. Don't even think about trains or airplanes. Get off the computer, disconnect the internet. Turn away the police, ambulance or fire truck should you find yourself in trouble. Move to Somalia, and enjoy.


AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want the government to force me to give my money to others or to causes which i don't believe in


Then move to Somalia. The rest of us prefer civil society to chaos.


AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want the government to force me to healthcare that i haven't chosen


Too bad. Health is a public issue that affects the whole commonwealth. It's in the public domain whether you like or not. You're free to dissent all you want, but at the end of the day it's the polity that decides that.


AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want the government to change the constitution to change the system of check and balances that America has formed


It happened 27 times. They're called constitutional amendments. Live it, learn it, love it.


AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want the government force businesses to do things the government thinks is right. This means meddling in the free market system.


There is no free market. Never has been. Nor should there be. The very existence of private property is predicated on positive state action. The federal government is consitutionally mandated to regulate interstate commerce to promote the public good. Without such regulation, markets will cause negative net outcomes.


AlphaRooster said:


> I Believe Government had no right to buy out GM. I DO NOT want my money to go to unions which i believe destroyed the American auto industry. This is unfair to every other automaker


Believe away. The government has the power of eminent domain. Those unions didn't kill the auto industry, the executives themselves managed that one. Besides, it's labor unions that are responsible for 8 hour day, occupational health and safety, the minimum wage, the abolition of child labor, protections against discrimination, wrongful termination, sexual harassment, and all the other rights American workers enjoy. 


AlphaRooster said:


> I DO NOT want my government to spend an obscene amount of money that we do not have to pay for programs that will cost even more. Such as healthcare, which i believe is wrong in the first place.


Would you like another Great Depression? If your answer is no, then shut up.


AlphaRooster said:


> China owns America because they are backing up our debt that we can't afford to pay back.


No, they don't. China is dependent on our markets, they buy US bonds in order to finance international trade. And America still has a AAA credit rating. We can afford to pay it back.


AlphaRooster said:


> AMERICAN GOVNMENT is by the people for the people, anything else is unamerican. Americans want the government to stop spending money. They are not, this is unamerican
> 
> Anything other than this points to communism, socialism, monarchism, totalitarism. These are NOT american ideals.


Funnily enough, everyone else in the world has a different term for "government by the people, for the people". They don't call it "American"; they call it socialism. 

Now, whatever you choose to call it, you're a hypocrite. You call American government "government by the people, for the people," yet you seem to oppose the very things that the majority of Americans support, and have fought and died for to win over the past two centuries. 

You can't have it both ways, my friend. You can either believe in liberty and democracy, and accept that the government, as the representative of the people, has the power and duty to regulate the common affairs of the country, or you can believe, like Glenn Beck does, in plutocracy, oligarchy and corporatism. 


AlphaRooster said:


> These are some of the things Glenn believes in, so do I. I listen because we agree, nothing more.This doesn't mean I don't believe in helping the poor, it means i don't want people to ask or expect handouts. Get a job anyjob. If it's not enough then i'll support you. I will NOT pay for you to sit on your ass and go to the hospital on my dime. If you can't afford a kid, keep your fucking legs closed.


Then move to Somalia, because that's precisely what the role of government is in civil society. You transportation, your education, your electricity, your internet, your telephone, even your health, _has already been paid for, in whole or in part, by public money_. That's the role of civil society; to provide goods and services that are of common interest to all. You've been living and thriving off a public handout your entire life. It is the ultimate expression of hypocrisy for you to say that you don't believe in handouts. You're the beneficiary of handouts that have existed since before your grandparents were born. Now that you've suckled off the government teat for your whole life, you have the audacity to refuse charity and public provision for those less fortunate than yourself? Unbelievable.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 21, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> I didn't have to change anything. If you knew anything about statistics polls aren't worth the paper it's printed after one month. The only use that poll has at this point is for historians.





> There are* no poles *suggesting that 70% of Americans support a public option. That is a blatant lie



You said there are *no polls* that suggest it.  You had no caveats or the like.  Then when I give you one, you make up excuses and rules and exceptions as to why you should ignore it.

Regardless of what excuses you can pull out of your ass (You could do it for a poll of 100% of the people in America that was taken yesterday by saying the wording was bad or some shit) you said there were NO POLLS suggesting this.  And you were incorrect.

I know it's hard to admit you are flat out incorrect, but it happens sometimes.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 21, 2010)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> That right there is the reason Abstinence only education does not work.



Then why would anything work? If kids are that messed up and naive, nothing will work.


----------



## Petenshi (Mar 22, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then why would anything work? If kids are that messed up and naive, nothing will work.



Exactly, the only thing that works is first hand experience. Though, in this case I suppose it would be too late.


----------



## Draffut (Mar 22, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then why would anything work? If kids are that messed up and naive, nothing will work.



Nothing will work 100%.

But the children are stupid, not Deaf.  If you just say "Don't do this ever!" you really think most are going to listen to you?  Fuck no, they are dumb kids in the grip of hormones.  

If you say "If you do this, here are some methods to protect yourself."  The kids will hear it, and be far more open to it.  You arn't prohibiting them from anything and they will be more receptive to the information, and most understand in this case you are just trying to help them.  Yes, some dumb kids will still go without, but most will not.  We have the teen pregnancy stats to show this.


----------



## sadated_peon (Mar 22, 2010)

AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want the government to support me


So no military then. I guess we are all just going to go it alone.


			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want the government to force me to give my money to others or to causes which i don't believe in


So I can choose not to pay for the republican members of congress salary? I can choose not to pay for the Iraq war? I can choose not to pay for funding of the drug war?

Why do you get to decided what money you are forced to give? What makes you so ?special?


			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want the government to force me to healthcare that i haven't chosen


Healthcare is a service that you use, you will pay for it because you use it. If you get into a car accident and you don?t have insurance you will be given emergency care. 



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want the government to change the constitution to change the system of check and balances that America has formed


Nothing has done this recently?



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want the government force businesses to do things the government thinks is right. This means meddling in the free market system.


The government is the people, and I defiantly want the business to comply with what the people think is right. 

I want regulation so I don?t get tainted meat, I want regulation so I can drink from the rivers, I do want regulation so that I can breathe the air without getting cancer. I definitely want the protection so I have 40 hour work week, safe working conditions, etc. 

The free market has nothing against slavery. 



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I Believe Government had no right to buy out GM. I DO NOT want my money to go to unions which i believe destroyed the American auto industry. This is unfair to every other automaker


Unions are the free market, you just promoted it a second ago. 



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> I DO NOT want my government to spend an obscene amount of money that we do not have to pay for programs that will cost even more. Such as healthcare, which i believe is wrong in the first place.


Let?s kill some defense contracts then, as going over budget is par for the course on military contracts. 



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> China owns America because they are backing up our debt that we can't afford to pay back.


Actually, we can afford to pay it back, and it wouldn?t be very hard to pay it back. 
The U.S. has come back from even higher debt to gdp in the past. (after WW2 for example) the point is that people are not willing to do it. 



			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> AMERICAN GOVNMENT is by the people for the people, anything else is unamerican. Americans want the government to stop spending money. They are not, this is un-American


American?s want the government want to keep the economy going into a recovery, they want spending. 


			
				AlphaRooster said:
			
		

> Anything other than this points to communism, socialism, monarchism, totalitarism. These are NOT american ideals.


Lol, your points contradict each other and are so ill thought out that you, yourself can only support them if you ignore reality.


----------



## Mael (Mar 22, 2010)

Hey AlphaRooster, if you don't want the government to support you, the next time you see me and my rifle and you're under attack, guess who won't help you?

This guy.

You're welcome.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Mar 22, 2010)

alpharooster made me laugh, what a good morning this will be.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Mar 22, 2010)

GET YOUR HANDS OF MY MEDICARE!!!

So anyone doesn't whine, this was pulled from a conservative YT account:


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## masamune1 (Mar 22, 2010)

Congratulations, Glenn, you're a real horse's ass.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 22, 2010)

I had plans to bring a Polish girl in here to say "70% of Americans favour a Public Option" but she didn't want to


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## Lord Yu (Mar 22, 2010)

I have to say, I love Glenn Beck for all the reasons I hate him.


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## BAD BD (Mar 22, 2010)

Glenn Beck is mad, surely.


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## Lord Yu (Mar 22, 2010)

He's a living cartoon.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 22, 2010)

Lord Yu said:


> He's a living cartoon.



Cartoons you can kind of feel sorry for.


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## AlphaRooster (Mar 22, 2010)

Apparently i've become the punching bag around here. Fine, it's only the internet.

With so many people quoting me it's impossible to respond personally. I'll make my point simpler.

The American government makes laws, creates laws, and upholds laws. They do have responsibilities.

Government should provide defend me and create and support intercontinental infastructure. (i.e roads and such)

When i said i don't want the government to support me, i meant i want to support and create my own retirement, and should pay for my own healthcare. etc. I know i'm being sorta vague here, but the point is the less government in my life the better.

Obviously i'm not doing an adequate job of getting my point across, but unless someone grows a pair here and tells me what they think what healthcare reform means or is, i can't debate. I have no idea what your guys' thoughts are, and everytime i assume i'm lambasted. 

So tell me why you think you know everything and i'll do what you do and find info on the internet to make you look dumb.


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## Jello Biafra (Mar 22, 2010)

You're drawing a lot of criticism because you're arrogant and self-righteous, but don't have the knowledge and arguments to back it up. And when you make a snide post like that, you're only digging yourself deeper.

So I ask you, what's the difference between the state providing roads, education, police, utilities, and supporting research that leads to inventions like the internet, all things that you consider to be in the public interest, and the state providing health care to its citizens, another public interest? Your health affects more than just you.

If you can't afford to visit the doctor for most ailments, like most Americans, chances are they'll get worse. And when they get worse, you'll start missing work and racking up debt. That doesn't just effect your co-workers, who have to pick up the slack. The lost earnings affect the entire economy. 

Health care, as it exists today, is wasteful on multiple fronts, and it harms everyone in America, even the healthy, because of it. First, it discourages preventative treatment, since the working class simply can't afford it. The resulting ailments left untreated cost everyone far more in the long run. Second, private insurance is an inflationary, exploitative market. Human beings are predictably irrational. We are irrationally risk averse, and place greater importance on potential losses than potential gains. People are willing, then, to pay far greater amounts for insurance then the market value, since a person's health has an infinite marginal value to them. Health care providers, in turn, are able to charge more for their services, and the insurance industry has no incentive to reduce these costs, as they'll simply pass them straight onto the consumer. Finally, the overhead costs of private insurance are gigantic, almost forty percent of net revenue. This is money spent principally to find reasons to _not_ pay for treatments. Money spent on lawyers, for example, to find stipulations in insurance contracts to disqualify persons for care on a myriad of reasons.

This ends up affecting us all. The health of the citizenry is just as important to the health of the polity as education or roads are. Thus, it should principally be provisioned by the public. Not only is this more efficient, it is more just. We won't condemn the poor and powerless to die because they cannot afford treatment on their meager wages.


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## Stalin (Mar 22, 2010)

Sama'el how I can obtain your knowledge?


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Mar 22, 2010)

By sucking his/her dick/pussy.:ho


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## strongarm85 (Mar 22, 2010)

Sama'el said:


> You're drawing a lot of criticism because you're arrogant and self-righteous, but don't have the knowledge and arguments to back it up. And when you make a snide post like that, you're only digging yourself deeper.
> 
> So I ask you, what's the difference between the state providing roads, education, police, utilities, and supporting research that leads to inventions like the internet, all things that you consider to be in the public interest, and the state providing health care to its citizens, another public interest? Your health affects more than just you.



Your long winded post just now isn't worth the effort you put in to write it because it is based on a stance that fundamentally untrue about the legislation that just passed.

The government is not providing ANYBODY health care coverage under the new legislation. Instead the government is telling EVERYBODY that the HAVE TO BUY health insurance from health insurance companies and that if they don't buy health insurance the Federal Government will fine you money.


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## T4R0K (Mar 22, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Your long winded post just now isn't worth the effort you put in to write it because it is based on a stance that fundamentally untrue about the legislation that just passed.
> 
> The government is not providing ANYBODY health care coverage under the new legislation. Instead the government is telling *EVERYBODY that the HAVE TO BUY health insurance from health insurance companies and that if they don't buy health insurance the Federal Government will fine you money*.



Can someone explain this to me AGAIN because I still don't understand. It seems so ridiculous ! In many european countries, the fact you work or that you worked grants you access to health care, which is taken from your salary (through governmental dispositives) and it benefits everyone (in theory). Since the moment I started work, I had a part of health care taken in charge by the country, and even as a child, through my parents, and then as a student. And the rest comes from private companies, that you are actually NOT forced to take (but it's still a good idea to take it...)

...

I think my explaination is not really good, since it seems like you don't buy, you just get your money taken to benefit from it...

Putain, ya pas un Fran?ais capable d'expliquer la s?cu en anglais ? Je crois que j'y arrive pas...


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## Jello Biafra (Mar 22, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Your long winded post just now isn't worth the effort you put in to write it because it is based on a stance that fundamentally untrue about the legislation that just passed.
> 
> The government is not providing ANYBODY health care coverage under the new legislation. Instead the government is telling EVERYBODY that the HAVE TO BUY health insurance from health insurance companies and that if they don't buy health insurance the Federal Government will fine you money.



But I'm not talking about the legislation that just passed. We're talking about the fundamental principle behind any sort of health care reform, whether the current legislation or any other hypothetical solution: what is the government's proper role in health care? 

Alpha Rooster has taken the affirmative stance that health care is a totally private matter. I am challenging him to show why.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 22, 2010)

Sama'el said:


> But I'm not talking about the legislation that just passed. We're talking about the fundamental principle behind any sort of health care reform, whether the current legislation or any other hypothetical solution: what is the government's proper role in health care?
> 
> Alpha Rooster has taken the affirmative stance that health care is a totally private matter. I am challenging him to show why.



Hypothetical or not, everything you just said has no meaning in this circumstance because that isn't what we're getting here.


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## IBU (Mar 22, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Hypothetical or not, everything you just said has no meaning in this circumstance because that isn't what we're getting here.



You missed the point. If healthcare is understood as a public manner, it is within the purview of government regulation. And if it is within the purview of government regulation, than there is nothing in principle wrong with suggesting that it is the duty of citizens to purchase health insurance, and that if they do not do so they can be fined.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 22, 2010)

AestheticizeAnalog said:


> You missed the point. If healthcare is understood as a public manner, it is within the purview of government regulation. And if it is within the purview of government regulation, than there is nothing in principle wrong with suggesting that it is the duty of citizens to purchase health insurance, and that if they do not do so they can be fined.



Health Care is withing the Purview of Government Regulation. It is not without the Purview of Federal Government Regulation. The commerce clause is the only thing in the constitution that gives Federal Government the right to regulate any industry.

However the commerce clause is limited in the scope that it only applies to Interstate Commerce. Health Insurance, which they are forcing everyone in America to buy now, can only be purchased within State Borders. That makes it Intrastate Commerce which the commerce clause does not give the Federal Government to the right to regulate. Therefore there is a very high possibility that this bill will be defeated in court when it is brought before the Supreme Court and there are more than a dozen states that are already filling suit.


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## Inuhanyou (Mar 22, 2010)

Jesus preached love for your fellow man as far as i know


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## Shasta McNasty (Mar 23, 2010)

Sama'el said:


> Stop using public roads. Drop out of school. Stop drinking tap water. Don't even think about trains or airplanes. Get off the computer, disconnect the internet. Turn away the police, ambulance or fire truck should you find yourself in trouble. Move to Somalia, and enjoy.
> 
> Then move to Somalia. The rest of us prefer civil society to chaos.
> 
> ...



A little too much MSNBC for this 15 year old.


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## Jello Biafra (Mar 23, 2010)

Shasta McNasty said:


> A little too much MSNBC for this 15 year old.


And you're a tactless and spineless troll. The only reason you continue to post after your illustrious first impression is my own morbid curiosity over how deep of a hole you can dig yourself.


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## Razgriez (Mar 23, 2010)

TDM said:


> Yeah, but if you look at both ends of the spectrum, you'll just come away thinking _everybody's_ a lunatic.



Hmm... Wish I saw this sooner instead of just digging through this thread.

Usually when you start thinking everyone is a lunatic that is a good indication of where media has gone which is definitely bad for all of us.

You'll still get bits and pieces of the truth its just going to be in a giant pile of shit.


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## Petenshi (Mar 23, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Health Care is withing the Purview of Government Regulation. It is not without the Purview of Federal Government Regulation. The commerce clause is the only thing in the constitution that gives Federal Government the right to regulate any industry.
> 
> However the commerce clause is limited in the scope that it only applies to Interstate Commerce. Health Insurance, which they are forcing everyone in America to buy now, can only be purchased within State Borders. That makes it Intrastate Commerce which the commerce clause does not give the Federal Government to the right to regulate. Therefore there is a very high possibility that this bill will be defeated in court when it is brought before the Supreme Court and there are more than a dozen states that are already filling suit.



Healthcare shouldn't be an industry, this isn't hamburgers we are talking about here it is peoples lives. Healthcare should be a right, if there is a surgery that I need to save my life but can't afford it why would I want a company who's sole interest is profit to help me? An insurance company from New York is going to care about my the life as a dollar symbol(or the lack there of.) the same as one from wyoming. Each company may offer different plans, but there goals remain the same, which is to make money. The healthcare reform might help a little but until we get out of this idea that healthcare is a privaledge rather than a right, I don't see us getting anywhere good anytime soon.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 23, 2010)

Hamburgers are very important, I think the government should be giving us the hamburgers, and not just for some. Everyone is entitled to hamburgers.


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## Stalin (Mar 23, 2010)

Jesus, why are people are so opposed to government controlled things like healthcare? Just because the government will competely control some things doesn't mean we'll have a dictatorship.


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## Dark Uchiha (Mar 23, 2010)

The Cheat said:


> Jesus, why are people are so opposed to government controlled things like healthcare? Just because the government will competely control some things doesn't mean we'll have a dictatorship.



idk, i want the government out of healthcare.

there hands in it cant result in anything good.

shit i hope when they repel this god forsaken bill, they ummount the pavement so i can travel on dirt roads. public drinking water?? omg can anyone say oppressive? Why does my tax dollars gotta be used so that bum that sleeps under the palm tree can drink that to his heart content.

I also hope to start up my own police department and fire agency. Theres so much money to be had in that trade.

public schools? Fuck public schools, if i wanted my child to learn calculus it would be in the bible, goddamn government always ruining a good thing, they taking over everything.

i mean damn why do i have to go through a government agency to show my passport to get on this land or any foreign lands. Oppressive government taking over the land the sky and the sea.

stoping your average joe in making a buck.
Everyone knows this a stepping stone to government takeover of the air we breathe.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Mar 23, 2010)

Dark Uchiha said:


> idk, i want the government out of healthcare.
> 
> there hands in it cant result in anything good.
> 
> ...



Are you serious? You're attacking calculus.


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## Dark Uchiha (Mar 23, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Are you serious? You're attacking calculus.



im soooooo serious. Wasting money on the public getting education. We cant have smart people as a whole, only those of privilege are allowed to advance. If your parents cant save money to send you to a private school, then its not meant for you to have higher education. from k-12

this government takeover is crazy.

think about the money i could make if i had a tar business to make roads...

but nooooo its government sponsored and they take money out my takes so people can drive on those things they call "highways".

i mean cmon man... do you know how much money can be made if you had a couple of friends that lift weights and you opened up your own police station with the 10 of them....


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## Deleted member 84471 (Mar 23, 2010)

Dark Uchiha said:


> idk, i want the government out of healthcare.
> 
> there hands in it cant result in anything good.
> 
> ...



 **


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## Zarathoustr4 (Mar 23, 2010)

This debate is so funny from an European perspective.

To you, how does France or northern Europe country look like?

Do American people think that when Berlin wall finally fell, it was to invite communists to rule our country?

Most of EU countries have social security and health care for ages. 
To me, watching Glen Beck or Fox News is like watching Science fiction. I cannot believe he dare say a 10th of what he spouts every day. You sure are lucky oversea.


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## Xyloxi (Mar 23, 2010)

Dark Uchiha said:


> im soooooo serious. Wasting money on the public getting education. We cant have smart people as a whole, only those of privilege are allowed to advance. If your parents cant save money to send you to a private school, then its not meant for you to have higher education. from k-12
> 
> this government takeover is crazy.
> 
> ...



You don't like the concept of government? Societies exist without governments you know, so if I were you I'd go and move to Somalia or Niger.


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## Razgriez (Mar 23, 2010)

Xyloxi said:


> You don't like the concept of government? Societies exist without governments you know, so if I were you I'd go and move to Somalia or Niger.



Oh dear. I dont suggest this if you want to live for more then a week.


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