# Chase Young(Xiaolin Showdown) vs. Madara Uchiha(Naruto)



## Lord Valgaav (May 20, 2012)

*Location:* Chase's lair
*Knowledge:* Full
*State of Mind:* IC
*Restrictions/Conditions:* Chase gets his cat army, No Edo version


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## Freddy Mercury (May 20, 2012)

Chase isn't getting pass Susanoo.


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## Krypton (May 20, 2012)

What's the point of saying no Edo. All we've seen of Madara is him as an Edo. He has no feat prior to that but vague statements, and implied power.


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## Lord Valgaav (May 20, 2012)

Krypton said:


> What's the point of saying no Edo. All we've seen of Madara is him as an Edo. He has no feat prior to that but vague statements, and implied power.



By no Edo I mean hes alive. Its still current Madara just without being able to rely on its regeneration and whatnot.

@Freddie: IC he has no reason to use Susanoo from the start.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 20, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> @Freddie: IC he has no reason to use Susanoo from the start.



I never said he'll use it from the start. The reason i brought it up was if Chase and his cats somehow overwhelmed him in CQC.


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## The Saltiest Pizza (May 20, 2012)

Any speed indications for Chase? Sharingan's ability to read movements makes hand to hand combat difficult unless they're just so overwhelmingly fast.


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## Lord Valgaav (May 20, 2012)

Colonel Awesome said:


> Any speed indications for Chase? Sharingan's ability to read movements makes hand to hand combat difficult unless they're just so overwhelmingly fast.



Hes above/on par with EoS Wudai Warrors who can casually dodge machine gun fire from Jackbots since start of series. Though their speed has stayed consistently the same throughout the series.


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## JayDox (May 21, 2012)

I plan on rewatching XS, but from what I remember Madara wins


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

This thread points out exactly the following:
- Susanoo cant tank season 2 Clay's seismic kick
- Madara's fire and wood jutsu are worthless
- the only arguable physical stat Madara can hope for is speed, but that wont last long

lol its the same people who have forgotten the Wudai Warriors can beat Madara, and Chase is stronger than all of them so...


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## The Saltiest Pizza (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> This thread points out exactly the following:
> - Susanoo cant tank season 2 Clay's seismic kick
> - Madara's fire and wood jutsu are worthless
> - the only arguable physical stat Madara can hope for is speed, but that wont last long
> ...



That depends on whether or no Chase can utterly blitz Madara. Hand to hand combat against a Sharingan user is generally difficult unless you're just so overwhelmingly fast.


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## Omnirix (May 21, 2012)

I doubt base chase got anything to get past susano. But if this is Chase after he absorbed Omi's essence, he essentially became a planetary reality warper and split the planet in half. Madara would stand no chance against that.


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## Lord Valgaav (May 21, 2012)

Heroic Trunks said:


> I doubt base chase got anything to get past susano. But if this is Chase after he absorbed Omi's essence, he essentially became a planetary reality warper and split the planet in half. Madara would stand no chance against that.



Its obviously not that version of Chase. Hes Rikudo Sennin level


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## Shiba D. Inu (May 21, 2012)

is the sleeping forest pollen useless here ?


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## The Saltiest Pizza (May 21, 2012)

Heroic Trunks said:


> I doubt base chase got anything to get past susano. But if this is Chase after he absorbed Omi's essence, he essentially became a planetary reality warper and split the planet in half. Madara would stand no chance against that.



Wait, what? Did I miss that episode or something? I don't remember that at all.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Colonel Awesome said:


> That depends on whether or no Chase can utterly blitz Madara. Hand to hand combat against a Sharingan user is generally difficult unless you're just so overwhelmingly fast.



They aren't even in physical stats at all. Physical strength and durability being in Chase's favor.



Heroic Trunks said:


> I doubt base chase got anything to get past susano. But if this is Chase after he absorbed Omi's essence, he essentially became a planetary reality warper and split the planet in half. Madara would stand no chance against that.



Look at these feats. Clay's in particular would destroy Susanoo since Tsunade and Raikage dont have a better strength feat. At no point in the series has Clay been anything but fodder to Chase.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Here are some general feats

From 3 episodes the wudai warriors were able to travel to the earth's core and withstand the heat.

A strength feat from Clay. Watch from the beginning of the vid.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJUPnQln-rs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

A strength feat from Raimundo damaging a hill at 5:10.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4BYt_lsxI&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Omi stopping a waterfall in time at 6:05

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8a4ZYTdts4[/YOUTUBE]

Heres Raimundo collapsing a Skyscraper into the ground at 2:21

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZSHymT5mcs&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]






Fluttershy said:


> is the sleeping forest pollen useless here ?



Well it depends, can Madara survive the poison as well? Can it also be effective with Chase remaining in close quarters combat?



Colonel Awesome said:


> Wait, what? Did I miss that episode or something? I don't remember that at all.



Chase with Omi's chi at the end

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxMnxQnWOUM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

I'm pretty sure with Susanoo the pollen won't effect him. I'm also against trying to use Clay's feat and apply it to Chase.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> I'm pretty sure with Susanoo the pollen won't effect him. I'm also against trying to use Clay's feat and apply it to Chase.



Since when has Clay been anything but a child to Chase? Its called powerscaling...

Also, any Susanoo hasn't displayed protection from substances carried through the air like in this scan



Unless you have evidence that Madara's offers protection from substances carried in the air?


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Since when has Clay been anything but a child to Chase? Its called powerscaling...



Because  Chase is faster and has better fighting techniques that was embarrassing even Omi. I seriously don't know where you are getting the idea that he is suppose to be physically on par with Clay who is implied to be one of the strongest characters in the series.



> Also, any Susanoo hasn't displayed protection from substances carried through the air like in this scan



Your scan isn't showing. Also Madara was on the ground while the mist was activated before he knocked the kages down. 



> Unless you have evidence that Madara's offers protection from substances carried in the air?



Doesn't even matter because Madara can escape it easily, unlike Chase.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

If Chase gets one of the top tiers Shen Gong Wu, like the time traveling one. He's going to defeat Madara. No ands, ifs or butts. He's one of the most intelligent people in his verse as well and always knows exactly what he's doing. Usually loses due to PIS.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> If Chase gets one of the top tiers Shen Gong Wu, like the time traveling one. He's going to defeat Madara. No ands, ifs or butts. He's one of the most intelligent people in his verse as well and always knows exactly what he's doing. Usually loses due to PIS.



Agree with this, although i don't see any use for the Sands of Time.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Agree with this, although i don't see any use for the Sands of Time.



I need to brush up on my Shen Gong Wu info. It's been so long since I saw this show... And no he wouldn't really need it. Chase is an intelligent fighter (how strong were the Destructive powers of the Shaolin Warriors EOS?) He should be able to hold his own against Madara, he should also be hypersonic as the Xiaolin Warriors were able to easily dodge machine gun fire and bullets, and got stronger as the series went on (he's many items stronger than the Xiaolin Warriors before and after their upgrades, though he's probably on par with Raimundo since he's considered the official leader of the group).


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> I need to brush up on my Shen Gong Wu info. It's been so long since I saw this show... And no he wouldn't really need it. Chase is an intelligent fighter (how strong were the Destructive powers of the Shaolin Warriors EOS?) He should be able to hold his own against Madara, he should also be hypersonic as the Xiaolin Warriors were able to easily dodge machine gun fire and bullets, and got stronger as the series went on (he's many items stronger than the Xiaolin Warriors before and after their upgrades, though he's probably on par with Raimundo since he's considered the official leader of the group).



Most of the Shen Gong Wu are here in case you can't remember them
.

The Shaolin Warriors EoS working together were on his level and quite possibly stronger seeing how they defeated him to free Omi, and in the final episode to save the past.

In the trailer for the upcoming sequel we also saw Omni taking him solo in a Gong Yi Tanpai, so we know he can't school them like the old days. Although the outcome of that battle is still unknown.

I'm still giving Madara the edge because of his versatility. But like you said if this was Chase with top tier SGW, or his Omi Chi powers he'll beat the fuck outta him.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Because  Chase is faster and has better fighting techniques that was embarrassing even Omi. I seriously don't know where you are getting the idea that he is suppose to be physically on par with Clay who is implied to be one of the strongest characters in the series.



And here you demonstrate that you dont watch the show and haven't seen Chase knock Clay away like a fly numerous times...



> Your scan isn't showing. Also Madara was on the ground while the mist was activated before he knocked the kages down.



Its the scan of the Mizukage's acid mist melting Sasuke's clothes even though he had Susanoo activated.

He wasn't inhaling the mist just like the kages were doing.



> Doesn't even matter because Madara can escape it easily, unlike Chase



Chase can escape it. You act like Chase isn't far above a superhuman that can hold his breath.

Instead of going in circles... how does Madara win when he's outclassed in physical strength, durability and his fire and wood jutsu are useless?


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Most of the Shen Gong Wu are here in case you can't remember them
> 
> 
> The Shaolin Warriors EoS working together were on his level and quite possibly stronger seeing how they defeated him to free Omi, and in the final episode to save the past
> ...



Damn a 20 year old dudes going to be watching a show about kids collecting extremely powerful objects... Ah well at least I ain't thirty. Anyways the sequels coming? I wonder how their gonna showcase it. The factors of the team beating him to free Omi was also a team effort. I don't think anyone except for possibly Omi or Raimundo could actually go up against Chase. Omi because he has had a lot of confrontations, Raimundo because he is considered the leader of his team and thus has a greater mastery over his skills.

Also there's a weapon in the Shen Gong Wu that allows for its user to become incorporeal. Meaning they become like ghosts. Can't he just use that Shen Gong Wu to pass him. Also the reason why I'm talking about using Shen Gong Wu in this fight is because in the show anyone could use any Shen Gong Wu, some had more affinity to certain people than others but all of them could be used by any person. Leading to a lot of hax in combat.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> And here you demonstrate that you dont watch the show and haven't seen Chase knock Clay away like a fly numerous times...



Strength doesn't equal durability. It's a pretty well known fact that the entire cast are borderline glass cannons so again, you can't powerscale strength like that unless you show Chase actually preforming a equal or greater feat.



> Its the scan of the Mizukage's acid mist melting Sasuke's clothes even though he had Susanoo activated.
> 
> He wasn't inhaling the mist just like the kages were doing.



What? His clothes wasn't even touched. The only thing that got burned was his arm and that was after his Susanoo melted and his defense was down as we clearly saw when even White Zetsu was able to touch him.
looked back to see the aftermath of the attack




> Chase can escape it. You act like Chase isn't far above a superhuman that can hold his breath.



No he can't. The only reason the kages even escaped it was because they were using gaara's sand to levitate above the forest. 



> Instead of going in circles... how does Madara win when he's outclassed in physical strength, durability and his fire and wood jutsu are useless.



As soon as you show me Chase's incredible strength & durability. Other then that he won't even land a hit on Madara due to Sharingan pre-cog.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> Damn a 20 year old dudes going to be watching a show about kids collecting extremely powerful objects... Ah well at least I ain't thirty.



Enjoy your youth 



> Anyways the sequels coming? I wonder how their gonna showcase it.



It's pretty much the same, except they added 3D shit and might change Jack's & Chase voice actors.



> The factors of the team beating him to free Omi was also a team effort. I don't think anyone except for possibly Omi or Raimundo could actually go up against Chase.
> 
> Omi because he has had a lot of confrontations, Raimundo because he is considered the leader of his team and thus has a greater mastery over his skills.



I never denied that, in fact i agree with it. I'm just saying he can't ROFLSTOMP them like when he first appeared.



> Also there's a weapon in the Shen Gong Wu that allows for its user to become incorporeal. Meaning they become like ghosts. Can't he just use that Shen Gong Wu to pass him. Also the reason why I'm talking about using Shen Gong Wu in this fight is because in the show anyone could use any Shen Gong Wu, some had more affinity to certain people than others but all of them could be used by any person. Leading to a lot of hax in combat.



There is also one that can make him move as fast as lightning.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Strength doesn't equal durability. It's a pretty well known fact that the entire cast are borderline glass cannons so again, you can't powerscale strength like that unless you show Chase actually preforming a equal or greater feat.



Since when did I say strength=durability? The cast aren't glass cannons... again watch the show for once.

With their strength, the master monks casually ripped through stone golems as if they were butter and they're able to tank those hits when they fight each other.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APNF5GuILGI[/YOUTUBE]

In this episode, Chase and Hannibal were destroying the pillars(just like Clay did when he kicked the cyclops) they were fighting on and tanking each others blows.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjFwNcluqgs&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]

So its very clear Chase through powerscaling is above the Clay feat that shatters Susanoo.

lol you called the cast glass canons when even Jack can survive falling off a canyon without a scratch(4:10)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8ECy9VaNzs[/YOUTUBE]



> What? His clothes wasn't even touched. The only thing that got burned was his arm and that was after his Susanoo melted and his defense was down as we clearly saw when even White Zetsu was able to touch him.
> looked back to see the aftermath of the attack



Okay, so how does Susanoo protect Madara from something in the air when he needs to continue breathing? Unless Susanoo blocks the air and suffocates the user right?



> No he can't. The only reason the kages even escaped it was because they were using gaara's sand to levitate above the forest.



They said not to breath it even though were up there.



> As soon as you show me Chase's incredible strength & durability. Other then that he won't even land a hit on Madara due to Sharingan pre-cog.



How is Madara even faster?

Chase could blitz Raimundo in the same season he was dodging missiles.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Strength doesn't equal durability. It's a pretty well known fact that the entire cast are borderline glass cannons so again, you can't powerscale strength like that unless you show Chase actually preforming a equal or greater feat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Chase can also use the crystal glasses to see into the future. So he'd have clairvoyance as well. The serpents tail to go through objects and fly becoming a non-corporeal. Golden Tiger Claws can cut through dimensions, so he can use that to bypass Susanoo. Hudoko Mouse to reverse time if he makes a mistake while fighting Madara. 

Kusuzu atom if he wants to completely atomize Madara... Jetbootsu to fly and maneuver through the air... There's a lot of shit here dude... I used to love this show because of all the different and unique powers they had for it. I also thought it ended way too quickly...

Anyways yeah. Chase with Omi's Chi and Shen Gong Wu can be very hax. Intelligence, Physical Power, and Wit. That's a badass combo dude.


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## Lord Valgaav (May 21, 2012)

Just so you guys know theres no SGW allowed in the match(not like Chase ever relied on any).


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Valgaav said:


> Just so you guys know theres no SGW allowed in the match(not like Chase ever relied on any).



He really didn't need to. He was more intelligent than most of the cast except for Xiaolin Monks Master, Hannibal Bean, and maybe Wuya when she has her powers fully... He was easily the series strongest antagonists tied with Hannibal once more who had the power to possibly control/destroy the universe to his liking.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Since when did I say strength=durability? The cast aren't glass cannons... again watch the show for once.
> 
> With their strength, the master monks casually ripped through stone golems as if they were butter and they're able to tank those hits when they fight each other.
> 
> ...



None of that even compares to Clay's feat which is the part you're missing and with that powerscaling Omi>Clay physical wise which is downright laughable.




> Okay, so how does Susanoo protect Madara from something in the air when he needs to continue breathing? Unless Susanoo blocks the air and suffocates the user right?



He was literally able to sit in a bath of lava in which he shouldn't have been able to receive air. There are people here that even believe that there is a limited amount of air inside Susanoo itself, which is plausible.




> They said not to breath it even though were up there.



Once they got knocked down they were screwed. Madara himself sat inside the pollen before escaping it. Keyword *escape*, something Chase can't do.

Unless we somehow know how long Chase can hold his breathe it doesn't matter.




> How is Madara even faster?
> 
> Chase could blitz Raimundo in the same season he was dodging missiles.



Please tell me you aren't talking about about jackbot missiles...

Also i never stated madara was faster, i was talking about him being able to read Chase's moves and react.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> None of that even compares to Clay's feat which is the part you're missing and with that powerscaling Omi>Clay physical wise which is downright laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Omi focuses more on technique and skill than Clay does however. He even said with his center of gravity so low, that he had a definite advantage with using his small body to defeat opponents. He's often the one seen kicking the most ass in combat as well. Clay does have greater physical strength and endurance. but Omi is more powerful than him if only because he is a more skilled martial artist.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> Omi focuses more on technique and skill than Clay does however. He even said with his center of gravity so low, that he had a definite advantage with using his small body to defeat opponents. He's often the one seen kicking the most ass in combat as well. Clay does have greater physical strength and endurance. but Omi is more powerful than him if only because he is a more skilled martial artist.



I wasn't talking about skill i was talking about strength.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> I wasn't talking about skill i was talking about strength.



I know. But often in fiction, technique = Physical strength. Though Omi may not amass to Clay's build. He has his own set of skills that work for him. Technique can lead to having greater feats of physical strength if done properly. Chase Young uses skill more than strength, but has greater feats of strength due to him being considered above most of the characters in the series as I said before.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> None of that even compares to Clay's feat which is the part you're missing and with that powerscaling Omi>Clay physical wise which is downright laughable.



I never said Omi>Clay. I do claim Chase>Clay because Chase has defeated him in a fight which requires strength



> He was literally able to sit in a bath of lava in which he shouldn't have been able to receive air. There are people here that even believe that there is a limited amount of air inside Susanoo itself, which is plausible.



None of that is proof.



> Once they got knocked down they were screwed. Madara himself sat inside the pollen before escaping it. Keyword *escape*, something Chase can't do.



Madara held his breath aswell.



> Unless we somehow know how long Chase can hold his breathe it doesn't matter.



lol



> Please tell me you aren't talking about about jackbot missiles...
> 
> Also i never stated madara was faster, i was talking about him being able to read Chase's moves and react



nope 5:40, Raimundo dodges several missiles from a jet

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPynAF2CtKA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> I know. But often in fiction, technique = Physical strength. Though Omi may not amass to Clay's build. He has his own set of skills that work for him. Technique can lead to having greater feats of physical strength if done properly. Chase Young uses skill more than strength, but has greater feats of strength due to him being considered above most of the characters in the series as I said before.



I'm pretty sure that's reaching within association fallacy terms. Skill is skill and Strength is strength. Chase being overall stronger doesn't give him certain characters feats.

A example would be implying he is as smart as jack technology wise.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> I'm pretty sure that's reaching within association fallacy terms. Skill is skill and Strength is strength. Chase being overall stronger doesn't give him certain characters feats.
> 
> A example would be implying he is as smart as jack technology wise.



You have completely failed in trying to make a point.

Chase wouldn't defeat Clay unless he has the physical strength to do so. Which is why I posted several examples of his raw strength.

Do I honestly need to spend an hour posting the vids of numerous times that Chase has made Clay his bitch?


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> I never said Omi>Clay. I do claim Chase>Clay because Chase has defeated him in a fight which requires strength



Stop confusing skill & strength. He beat Clay because he is able to easily counter all of his basic moves. there was *never* any actual raw strength comparsion between the two. Like Gomu said this happens _alot_.




> None of that is proof.



>Being covered in lava which blocked off his air
>Not proof

Lol



> Madara held his breath aswell.



Now you're just assuming. 

Again doesn't matter as Madara escaped and you have yet to prove that Chase can do the same.



> lol



Is that suppose to be a argument?




> nope 5:40, Raimundo dodges several missiles from a jet
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPynAF2CtKA[/YOUTUBE]



That's basically unquantifiable.



Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> You have completely failed in trying to make a point.
> 
> Chase wouldn't defeat Clay unless he has the physical strength to do so. Which is why I posted several examples of his raw strength.
> 
> Do I honestly need to spend an hour posting the vids of numerous times that Chase has made Clay his bitch?



Are you dense? First of all are you implying that Clay has durability exactally equal to his strength off of one feat that might have been meant as gag.

Second the videos you posted didn't even compare to the feat you brought up in the first place so how in gods name are you using it as powerscaling? 

Third, why don't you do that.


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## Lord Valgaav (May 21, 2012)

Just putting it out there, but Chase does get stronger in his "dragon(?)" form if he cant deal with Susanoo in base.


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> I'm pretty sure that's reaching within association fallacy terms. Skill is skill and Strength is strength. Chase being overall stronger doesn't give him certain characters feats.
> 
> A example would be implying he is as smart as jack technology wise.



No. Because the association of feats means he can do a similar feat, do a feat with greater fitness or can't do a feat depending on his scaling of power. Unless it's a unique strength or power associated to the feat, Chase can do physically what the Xiaolin Warriors can plus more with greater ease.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> No. Because the association of feats means he can do a similar feat, do a feat with greater fitness or can't do a feat depending on his scaling of power. Unless it's a unique strength or power associated to the feat, Chase can do physically what the Xiaolin Warriors can plus more with greater ease.



Clay's entire uniqueness is based around his strength as his element is Earth. It's just that Chase is a overall better fighter which makes that useless.

It can be trumped by various means but it can't be compared.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Stop confusing skill & strength. He beat Clay because he is able to easily counter all of his basic moves. there was *never* any actual raw strength comparsion between the two.



Skill doesn't defeat someone several times stronger than yourself when it involves physically overpowering them... derp.



> >Being covered in lava which blocked off his air
> >Not proof
> 
> Lol



Oh yes, because when that happened enough timed passed that Madara ran out of air right?



> Now you're just assuming.
> 
> Again doesn't matter as Madara escaped and you have yet to prove that Chase can do the same.



You're assuming that the poison doesn't affect him in the first place...

Chase only has to defeat him before he resorts to it.



> Is that suppose to be a argument?



Right... superhuman characters can't even hold their breaths for a minute...



> That's basically unquantifiable.



Well, you need a lesson in obd basics... a bullet is the speed of sound which is supersonic and so are missiles while being more destructive. Especially missiles used for combat purposes that jets are equiped with.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Skill doesn't defeat someone several times stronger than yourself when it involves physically overpowering them... derp.



Ignoring the times that Omi could physically complete with him because he was nearly as skilled and Jermaine was able to train under him. Derp




> Oh yes, because when that happened enough timed passed that Madara ran out of air right?



Because it was like he was totally in danger and suffocating. i'm guessing that's what that smirk meant.



> You're assuming that the poison doesn't affect him in the first place...
> 
> Chase only has to defeat him before he resorts to it.



It was brought it and i defended it. Now i can bring up other factors like soul fucking, pre-cog, genjutsu and susanoo that he can use off the bat if that's what you like.




> Right... superhuman characters can't even hold their breaths for a minute...



Because the pollen only last for a minute....

My god...




> Well, you need a lesson in obd basics... a bullet is the speed of sound which is supersonic and so are missiles while being more destructive. Especially missiles used for combat purposes that jets are equiped with.



Fictional jets and missiles being compared to missiles from the real world and dodged from meters away. Tell me more about dem basics?


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

I don't even know what's going on here anymore... I just say Omi Chi Chase wins and be done with it.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Are you dense? First of all are you implying that Clay has durability exactally equal to his strength off of one feat that might have been meant as gag.



No you are retarded because Chase actually has overpowered Clay in physical strength. Skill isn't involved in that...

1:30 Chase pulls Clay's wu, basically tug of war

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLoLu_V7hUM&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]

Are you calling Clay's seismic kick a gag? There wasn't anything funny in the scene.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Ignoring the times that Omi could physically complete with him because he was nearly as skilled and Jermaine was able to train under him. Derp



Because they had the strength to do so in the first place... and you realize Chase never cared right?




> Because it was like he was totally in danger and suffocating. i'm guessing that's what that smirk meant.



Exactly, so he didn't run out of air because there was no time to.



> *It was brought it and i defended it.* Now i can bring up other factors like soul fucking, pre-cog, genjutsu and susanoo that he can use off the bat if that's what you like.



Yes you defended something with no proof.

Hows he going to soul fuck?
pre-cog is useless without Madara's stats being even in the first place
genjutsu working on someone without chakra in their brain?
Susanoo is fodder like I showed before
anything else?



> Because the pollen only last for a minute....
> 
> My god...



Chase only needs a minute to win.



> Fictional jets and missiles being compared to missiles from the real world and dodged from meters away. Tell me more about dem basics?



Playing retarded I see.

Exactly what are those jets and missiles modeled under if they dont represent real world physics?

Dodged meters away? Nice attempt at downplaying...


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> No you are retarded because Chase actually has overpowered Clay in physical strength. Skill isn't involved in that...
> 
> 1:30 Chase pulls Clay's wu, basically tug of war
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLoLu_V7hUM&feature=relmfu[/YOUTUBE]



You're joking? He *threw* the rope and Chase caught him off guard by pulling it before he could. Why would you even think that's a strength feat?



> *Because they had the strength to do so in the first place*



What in the.... Your powerscaling is getting completely out of hand now.



> ...and you realize Chase never cared right?



It were times when he was actually serious against people who haven't shown the level of strength you are pinning on him. His battle with Monk Guan is a example.



> Exactly, so he didn't run out of air because there was no time to.



Which you're implying could've happened in the first place.



> Yes you defended something with no proof.



The attack didn't work on him. You assumed that he held his breathe while on the ground without posting proof.



> Hows he going to soul fuck?



By touching him.




> pre-cog is useless without Madara's stats being even in the first place



Are you implying Chase can blitz him? lol.



> genjutsu working on someone without chakra in their brain?



Don't even attempt this argument. Energy equalization is default.



> Susanoo is fodder like I showed before



Wonderful, now can you show Chase's actual strength feats as well?




> anything else?



No thanks, i've seen all i need.




> Chase only needs a minute to win.



Fucking lol.



> Playing retarded I see.
> 
> Exactly what are those jets and missiles modeled under if they dont represent real world physics?
> 
> Dodged meters away? Nice attempt at downplaying...



Ok then smartass, what "real world" missiles are those comparable to? What model? Do you care to post the way the missiles operated in a attempt to get a minimum speed which can travel at subsonic instead of supersonic?

I hardly call this downplaying. Nitpicking maybe, but still...


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## Gomu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> *Are you implying Chase can blitz him? lol.*



Lets see. A world where bullets and missiles are used frequently and have to be dodged in order to not be damaged by them. Against a world of ninja who don't have machine gun fire and all we have to go by is the occasional random feat of speed. Not blitz him, but by that constant show of skill, he can definitely outmaneuver him in combat.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Gomu said:


> Lets see. A world where bullets and missiles are used frequently and have to be dodged in order to not be damaged by them. Against a world of ninja who don't have machine gun fire and all we have to go by is the occasional random feat of speed. Not blitz him, but by that constant show of skill, he can definitely outmaneuver him in combat.



He was reacting to attacks from V2 A casually without his sharingan even being activated. Chase isn't touching him period unless he swarms him with the help of his cats.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> You're joking? He *threw* the rope and Chase caught him off guard by pulling it before he could. Why would you even think that's a strength feat?



He did catch Clay off guard because he was stronger than him derp.



> What in the.... Your powerscaling is getting completely out of hand now.



You dont even understand what powerscaling even is...



> It were times when he was actually serious against people who haven't shown the level of strength you are pinning on him. His battle with Monk Guan is a example.



You mean Master Monk Guan his equal? What an excellent example you made...



> Which you're implying could've happened in the first place.



Yes because that scene didn't last for more than a few seconds for him to run out of air genius.



> The attack didn't work on him. You assumed that he held his breathe while on the ground without posting proof.



You mean the jutsu he uses and knows how to cautiously avoid being affected by? How foolish of me to assume such a thing.



> By touching him.



cool



> Are you implying Chase can blitz him? lol.



He only needs to be a little faster for precog to be ineffective.



> Don't even attempt this argument. Energy equalization is default.



Ah, so you bring up energy equalization and yet real life physics involving technology like the missiles being supersonic aren't quantifiable. Quite the hypocrite you are.



> Wonderful, now can you show Chase's actual strength feats as well?



Overpowering Clay.



> No thanks, i've seen all i need.



good so Madara has nothing to offer



> Ok then smartass, what "real world" missiles are those comparable to? What model? Do you care to post the way the missiles operated in a attempt to get a minimum speed which can travel at subsonic instead of supersonic?
> 
> I hardly call this downplaying. Nitpicking maybe, but still...



Any combat missile is easily supersonic just like a bullet would be.

Raimundo dodging several and Chase being able to blitz him is more than enough.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> He was reacting to attacks from V2 A casually without his sharingan even being activated. Chase isn't touching him period unless he swarms him with the help of his cats.



When did Madara not have his sharingan activated? Making things up now?

How exactly are you listing a quantifiable speed feat for this thread?


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

freddie this is pathetic what you're debating.

Clay who was a dragon apprentice is more physically powerful than Chase and Guan who are xiaolin masters?


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## Freddy Mercury (May 21, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> He did catch Clay off guard because he was stronger than him derp.



Pulling someone that didn't resist = being stronger then that person?

I'm starting to see why you are using derp.




> You dont even understand what powerscaling even is...



Neither do you which is why you're using A>B>C logic



> You mean Master Monk Guan his equal? What an excellent example you made...



His equal pre-soup and who he defeated later on.

Why thank you.



> Yes because that scene didn't last for more than a few seconds for him to run out of air genius.



So now you're willing to accept that Susanoo does in fact hold air?



> You mean the jutsu he uses and knows how to cautiously avoid being affected by? How foolish of me to assume such a thing.



No i'm talking about the jutsu he used casually and gave no shit about and wasn't even worried about dodging until the kages got out of it's range.



> cool



I know right?



> He only needs to be a little faster for precog to be ineffective.



I think you should re-watch the valley of end where Sasuke was getting shit blitzed without it.



> Ah, so you bring up energy equalization and yet real life physics involving technology like the missiles being supersonic aren't quantifiable. Quite the hypocrite you are.



You're comparing two different concepts.




> Overpowering Clay.



Show not tell




> good so Madara has nothing to offer



A sword through his skull while he's stun? O wait inb4 Chase has mental defense.




> Any combat missile is easily supersonic just like a bullet would be.



Via acceleration.



> Raimundo dodging several and Chase being able to blitz him is more than enough.



To put him between subsonic & supersonic which are what cruise missiles can range from, assuming they were cruise missiles? Yeah... Stick with their other feats.



Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> When did Madara not have his sharingan activated? Making things up now?
> 
> How exactly are you listing a quantifiable speed feat for this thread?



He had the Rinnegan activated when he blocked the punch.

EDIT: This is wrong, i forgot he can use sharingan abilities while it's activated.



Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> freddie this is pathetic what you're debating.
> 
> Clay who was a dragon apprentice is more physically powerful than Chase and Guan who are xiaolin masters?



Clay is strong because of his *ELEMENT*. But we saw that strength isn't the only thing important which is why he got trashed in the first place. Is Rai physically stronger then him because he's a rank above him as well?

You are using a association fallacy while i'm trying to use what's on screen.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 21, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Pulling someone that didn't resist = being stronger then that person?
> 
> I'm starting to see why you are using derp.
> 
> ...



You really need to watch the show. Clay isn't the most physically strongest. Any episode threat has overpowered him(Tubbimura, the cyclops, hannibal, even the Chase's jungle cats). This was in strength, so stop trying to pass a season 2 feat as the most powerful strength feat in the show.

Your nitpicking is pathetic. Keep believing a character whos above a set of characters, who you already conceded can beat Madara, cant defeat him.

When you watch the show for the first time you'll understand why.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 22, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> You really need to watch the show. Clay isn't the most physically strongest. Any episode threat has overpowered him(Tubbimura, the cyclops, hannibal, even the Chase's jungle cats). This was in strength, so stop trying to pass a season 2 feat as the most powerful strength feat in the show.



What? Hannibal Bean isn't as strong as anyone unless you actually consider him taking his form for a limited time "strength". The only time he actually had power in any form was when he had the magic box and his robotic suit best feat is stoping base Raimundo.

The cats by themselves were hardly a threat to experienced Xiaolin Warriors and were only defeating the minor villians casually. 



> Your nitpicking is pathetic. Keep believing a character whos above a set of characters, who you already conceded can beat Madara, cant defeat him.



Never conceded that the Wudai Warriors can beat Madara, although they do have a much better shot then Chase because they are just as versatile. Stop using A>B>C logic and assuming that being a tier above a person in a martial arts style cartoon that focus on technique & magic automatically makes you physically stronger then them. Clay's element being strength is common fucking sense since the first episodes and without that he is useless.

The funny thing is you still haven't actually posted a strength feat preformed by Chase on par with him while trying to somehow powerscale his strength above Clay's signature attack.



> When you watch the show for the first time you'll understand why.



Likewise.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 22, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> What? Hannibal Bean isn't as strong as anyone unless you actually consider him taking his form for a limited time "strength". The only time he actually had power in any form was when he had the magic box and his robotic suit best feat is stoping base Raimundo.
> 
> The cats by themselves were hardly a threat to experienced Xiaolin Warriors and were only defeating the minor villians casually.



As usual this information is completely false...

Hannibal fought equally with Chase in an episode I posted in this very thread and was a physical threat the entire season. He had the moby morpher, but thats standard for him. Nice that you dont even look at the evidence I post, but not surprising...

The jungle cats kicked the living shit out of the warriors(Clay included) several times. Here is an episode where it is a plot point.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ue0Na97EoI[/YOUTUBE]



> Never conceded that the Wudai Warriors can beat Madara, although they do have a much better shot then Chase because they are just as versatile. Stop using A>B>C logic and assuming that being a tier above a person in a martial arts style cartoon that focus on technique & magic automatically makes you physically stronger then them. Clay's element being strength is common fucking sense since the first episodes and without that he is useless.



The strongest characters are comfortably above weaker characters in all aspects. Skill includes being physically strong...

Continue stating a xiaolin apprentice was physically stronger than the masters.



> The funny thing is you still haven't actually posted a strength feat preformed by Chase on par with him while trying to somehow powerscale his strength above Clay's signature attack.



Here in this clip, Clay with his element(which you claim is the physically strongest) and a wu cant defeat a stone golem. Ive already posted clips of Chase fodderizing dozens of them. Clay was even physically restrained and taken prisoner. But im sure you'll claim they were more skilled.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0wmdc3wxDI[/YOUTUBE]



> Likewise



Stop being retarded or do you expect me to post everything from the show in this thread? You've been repeatedly wrong about information regarding this show this entire thread.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 23, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> As usual this information is completely false...
> 
> Hannibal fought equally with Chase in an episode I posted in this very thread and was a physical threat the entire season. He had the moby morpher, but thats standard for him. Nice that you dont even look at the evidence I post, but not surprising...



I did. being on their level for a limited time due to SGW does not equal being being stronger. Chase didn't even freaking transform when he fought him so what the hell was your point when i already called this out on my previous post?



> The jungle cats kicked the living shit out of the warriors(Clay included) several times. Here is an episode where it is a plot point.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ue0Na97EoI[/YOUTUBE]



More like getting the shit kicked out of them until they swarmed the monks. 



> The strongest characters are comfortably above weaker characters in all aspects. Skill includes being physically strong...
> 
> Continue stating a xiaolin apprentice was physically stronger than the masters.



Once again you are failing to understand that powerscaling is jacked the minute the element requires and boost strength. Omi & Raimundo are the best fighters in the group and they can't come even close to Clay in physical terms. They didn't even specialize in it.

Episodes like this makes it clear
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjcKkx6ZnvI[/YOUTUBE]





> Here in this clip, Clay with his element(which you claim is the physically strongest) and a wu cant defeat a stone golem. Ive already posted clips of Chase fodderizing dozens of them. Clay was even physically restrained and taken prisoner. But im sure you'll claim they were more skilled.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0wmdc3wxDI[/YOUTUBE]



A season 1 feat? Are you freaking serious? Jack at that time was able to take out multiple golems and you're implying that none of the monks got stronger after that period which we all know is BS when we saw their new training near the start of season 2 after they ranked up.




> Stop being retarded or do you expect me to post everything from the show in this thread? You've been repeatedly wrong about information regarding this show this entire thread.



No. All i ask you was to post a single time he was outmatched in a _actual_ physical bout, or even someone stopping his strongest moves which would make it more then certain that your theory on strength is fact. All you posted were times that he was blitzed even though he's the slowest Xiaolin Monk feat wise.

Funny thing is you even went as far as to post the feat of him not being able to break a golem and tried to use it as proof as to why he is weaker then chase. While ignoring the fact that it will contradict the Cyclop feat that you are powerscaling them from in the first place.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 23, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> I did. being on their level for a limited time due to SGW does not equal being being stronger. Chase didn't even freaking transform when he fought him so what the hell was your point when i already called this out on my previous post?



Nice attempt at changing the context of what you said earlier to avoid looking stupid.



> More like getting the shit kicked out of them until they swarmed the monks.



Once again you didn't watch the episode. There is even one tiger wrestling with Clay in the vid.



> Once again you are failing to understand that powerscaling is jacked the minute the *element requires and boost strength*. Omi & Raimundo are the best fighters in the group and they can't come even close to Clay in physical terms. They didn't even specialize in it.



And Chase still beats him regardless, and no Omi and Rai surpassed Clay in the final episodes...



> Episodes like this makes it clear
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjcKkx6ZnvI[/YOUTUBE]



Nice a season 2 episode without Chase.



> A season 1 feat? Are you freaking serious? Jack at that time was able to take out multiple golems and you're implying that none of the monks got stronger after that period which we all know is BS when we saw their new training near the start of season 2 after they ranked up.



hahahaha That is a 2nd season ep after Clay ranked up to xiaolin apprentice and began using more advanced element usage.

Jack also used lasers to destroy those golems.

Once again you are all wrong.




> No. All i ask you was to post a single time he was outmatched in a _actual_ physical bout, or even someone stopping his strongest moves which would make it more then certain that your theory on strength is fact. All you posted were times that he was blitzed even though he's the slowest Xiaolin Monk feat wise.



Every encounter between them and the golems.



> Funny thing is you even went as far as to post the feat of him not being able to break a golem and tried to use it as proof as to why he is weaker then chase. While ignoring the fact that it will contradict the Cyclop feat that you are powerscaling them from in the first place



Cyclops is weaker than them, simple.

You are a troll that doesn't know a thing about the show. Im not wasting my time anymore arguing with someone who can be wrong about so much. You were never qualified to have an opinion in this thread.


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## Freddy Mercury (May 23, 2012)

Fleet Admiral Akainu said:


> Nice attempt at changing the context of what you said earlier to avoid looking stupid.



No, i'm pretty sure i was right on the mark. You had no reason to bring it up.



> Once again you didn't watch the episode. There is even one tiger wrestling with Clay in the vid.



For literally a few seconds? 



> And Chase still beats him regardless, and no Omi and Rai surpassed Clay in the final episodes...



Omi was always a better fighter technique wise then the rest of the cast. Shown when he was able to keep up with Chase's training at a early state, but Raimundo still kicked his ass hard when he joined HB's side.



> Nice a season 2 episode without Chase.



You're missing the point. He broke out of the ropes that binded the others and physically stopped two motorcycles while everyone else got caught. His strength was always emphasized to be greater then the rest.




> hahahaha That is a 2nd season ep after Clay ranked up to xiaolin apprentice and began using more advanced element usage.



I said near the start, in fact it was episode 3 right after they wrapped up the Wuya arc.



> Jack also used lasers to destroy those golems.
> 
> 
> Once again you are all wrong.



Your point? Jack's weapon became almost fodder trash as the series continued.




> Every encounter between them and the golems.



Which is no where near as impressive as Clay's Seismic Kick (his strongest non-SGW related attack), unless you want to argue that the golems are some type of super rock.



> Cyclops is weaker than them, simple.



Oh shit you really are trying to use the super rock excuse...



> You are a troll that doesn't know a thing about the show. Im not wasting my time anymore arguing with someone who can be wrong about so much. You were never qualified to have an opinion in this thread.



"Bawww! He doesn't agree with me so he's a troll!"

Didn't really see the point of that....

never the less you're powerscaling is almost flawless when Clay is not involved. His element is Earth, he is suppose to be stronger then the rest and this is shown countless times throughout the series in a consistent manner  but it does not make up for speed and raw skill. Something that was obvious to any fans and the scenarios that got the drop on him in all the videos you've posted which is why you've failed to deliver on your end of the argument.

I think we're done here.


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## Fleet Admiral Akainu (May 23, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> No, i'm pretty sure i was right on the mark. You had no reason to bring it up.



You called Clay the physically strongest and I listed several characters which you doubted and I proceeded to prove you wrong.



> For literally a few seconds?



You now agree, Chase's jungle cat can compete with Clay physically with him struggling. You're done.



> Omi was always a better fighter technique wise then the rest of the cast. Shown when he was able to keep up with Chase's training at a early state, but Raimundo still kicked his ass hard when he joined HB's side
> 
> You're missing the point. He broke out of the ropes that binded the others and physically stopped two motorcycles while everyone else got caught. His strength was always emphasized to be greater then the rest.




That is a 2nd season ep and Omi and Rai later surpassed him. You never made a valid point to prove Clay is the strongest character.



> I said near the start, in fact it was episode 3 right after they wrapped up the Wuya arc.



oh fantastic, you are now looking up the episode listing for the first time. You still aren't moronic why?



> Your point? Jack's weapon became almost fodder trash as the series continued.



You mean Jack whos technology conquered the world? You didn't watch the finale eh? You dont know a thing about him either lol



> Which is no where near as impressive as Clay's Seismic Kick (his strongest non-SGW related attack), unless you want to argue that the golems are some type of super rock.



The golems created by Wuya's magic? They must be fodder lol...



> Oh shit you really are trying to use the super rock excuse...



What attempt at logic have you attempted now? The rock golems are stronger than the cyclops.



> "Bawww! He doesn't agree with me so he's a troll!"
> 
> Didn't really see the point of that....
> 
> ...



You have been wrong about the show an incredible amount of times and you still stick to this...

A xiaolin apprentice is stronger than a master monk dragon character.

Even though Clay has actually been physically overpowered by Chase, the golems, the jungle cats, tubbimura, hannibal, etc.

The example I posted with the jungle cats is proof enough which you pathetically tried to pass by...


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## Gomu (May 23, 2012)

Freddie Mercury said:


> No, i'm pretty sure i was right on the mark. You had no reason to bring it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Freddie. I respect you and all that dude. But this time you're wrong on powerscaling the characters. Chase is master of the "Cat" Warriors who were defeating and struggling with Clay himself. He beat that entire squadron of warriors that's why they are jungle cats. This also means that Clay's strength pales in comparison of Chase's because of that solemn fact. In His dragon form, it's obvious Clay has increased stats due to it being his "true" form.

He was easily overpowering someone like Clay even while in his normal form. He was capable of outmatching Omi in speed, and Clay in power. He's stronger than both of them. It's nothing much to talk about...


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## Nikushimi (May 23, 2012)

I was literally thinking about these two and how similar they look today. Like just a couple of hours ago. 

Weird. Anyway, Madara rapes with Susano'o and Genjutsu and all that jazz.


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