# Gudōdama vs. Yata Mirror vs. Preta Path



## StickaStick (Sep 23, 2014)

How would you rank each three for their overall defensive capabilities and why. 

(This is Gudōdama with Onmyōton.)


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2014)

Ranked from best.....


Gudōdama > You can cover yourself in it and negate any jutsu... still not known if it can be broke by gai in 8 gate since Kakashi used kamui to make an opening when Gai hit Madara so it might be strong against taijutsu

Yata Mirror > It covers you only from one side... dont know how powerful is against taijutsu... said that it has all elements and reflect them... what about senjutsu ???

Preta Path > Allows you to absorb any jutsu but it takes time and if the enemy uses large jutsu in succession i doubt it could take it... also senjutsu based attacks might turn you into a frog


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## Blaze Release (Sep 23, 2014)

By feats Yata mirror is a joke. Hype its above the 2.

Going with (feats):
1. Gudodama
2. Preta Path
3. Yata

Btw can somebody link me to the manga page or DB page were it was explicitly stated that the yata mirror changes its elemental makeup to counter elemental techniques Certain that was narutopedia nonsense that people have been led to believe and even the DB reference they used doesn't support it.


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## Blaze Release (Sep 23, 2014)

Appears to be NF translation

This is what the official DB says





May mean the same thing and simply different wording or it may not


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## Ersa (Sep 23, 2014)

Yata's Mirror was noted by Kishimoto to be god's powers.



Probably weaker then Gudodama but stronger then Preta.


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 23, 2014)

GD-OM > yata > preta > GD-OM


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## Csdabest (Sep 23, 2014)

Yata Mirror Due to amazing hypes and living up to its rep with very few feats. Get some.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Yata Mirror Due to amazing hypes and living up to its rep with very few feats. Get some.



csdafail stikes again....


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 23, 2014)

Truth seeker balls are at the top due to feats and hype. 

Preta path and yata mirror might as well be ranked on the same "level" but i am putting preta above it. Yata has no outstanding feats but great hype while preta path has crazy feats. What happens on-panel is more believable than children bedtime stories.

Truth seeker balls>preta path>yata mirror


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 23, 2014)

Yata Mirror is manifested with Itachi's V4 Warrior Susano, a construct, which by itself, is considered a top-tier defensive technique. 

The actual mirror itself, without being inflated by Susano, and out of Itachi's hands, is likely weaker than Gaara's gourd sand.

In fact, we have no idea what it looks like, it's dimensions, or whether it even has a physical form.

In other words, when you're debating "Yata Mirror", make sure you put "Itachi's Yata Mirror", because it's really his Susano that makes the mirror useful.

With that being said, it's Gudodama > Preta Path > Yata Mirror, according to OP's stipulations.

Yata Mirror literally has no feats, not even the Kirin block or Sasuke's explosion tags- that was tanked by Itachi's Susano with Yata Mirror as an accessory.

Going strictly by feats, the mirror would be destroyed as effortlessly as Preta would against most taijutsu variants and by most of the Ninjutsu variants Preta would otherwise swallow with his hands.


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## ueharakk (Sep 23, 2014)

overall defensive capabilities

Truth seeker balls

- huge gap -

preta path

- huge gap -

yaata no kagami



Truth seeker balls take no damage from anything that isnʻt senjutsu (although they are still susceptible to S/T), and even when they are hit with senjutsu things like bijuudamas can still be blocked.  They can also be used to change their shape into pretty much any basic defense.

Preta path absorbs any ninjutsu, stated many times in the manga and itʻs still given no limits hype even this late in the game.  Itʻs absorbed things as powerful as FRS and as massive as Beeʻs V2 chakra cloak in almost an instant.  Downside is that itʻs useless against taijutsu, direct attacks, and generally things that arenʻt made of chakra.

Yaata is the shield that comes with a V4 susanoo, so that alone makes it extremely durable since V4 susanoos are extremely durable and shields are usually a lot more durable than the shielded.  Itʻs been given no limits hype, but thatʻs from a time in the manga that things like kirin and kn4 tbb were suppose to be increadibly powerful attacks.  Databook doesnʻt give it no limits, it gives itachiʻs susanoo equipped w/ yaata and totsuka no limits, and it also says the MS can see all things in the universe....


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## iJutsu (Sep 23, 2014)

It's not really hype when a creature with a 1000+ year knowledge is the one describing it. It's only hype if the person has only seen one example or only heard of it from stories. At worst Kishi would retcon it to be weaker, and that hasn't happened.

All around, yata would be superior since it can defend against ghosts. Gudodama seems to be best at protecting against a physical attack since it can change it's shape and eliminate the enemy. The best defense is to not get hit. If the enemy is dead, you won't get hit. Preta is the worst of the three since it only stops chakra based attacks. Yata seems more automatic than GD or Preta as well. Defense is pointless if you can't use it.


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## Dr. White (Sep 23, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> =
> 
> Yaata is the shield that comes with a V4 susanoo, so that alone makes it extremely durable since V4 susanoos are extremely durable and shields are usually a lot more durable than the shielded.  Itʻs been given no limits hype, but thatʻs from a time in the manga that things like kirin and kn4 tbb were suppose to be increadibly powerful attacks.  Databook doesnʻt give it no limits, it gives itachiʻs susanoo equipped w/ yaata and totsuka no limits, and it also says the MS can see all things in the universe....


Oh my gosh I can't believe I have to tell you this.

Itachi is the only Uchiha with Totsuka and Yata. It is not a fucking accessory that comes with V4 Susano. This is something you completely made up.

The only other Uchiha who can possibly use those weapons is Sasuke because he gained his brothers eyes.


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## ueharakk (Sep 23, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Oh my gosh I can't believe I have to tell you this.
> 
> Itachi is the only Uchiha with Totsuka and Yata. It is not a fucking accessory that comes with V4 Susano. This is something you completely made up.
> 
> The only other Uchiha who can possibly use those weapons is Sasuke because he gained his brothers eyes.



Iʻm not trying to make the point that yaata comes with any V4 susanoo or if it even automatically came with itachiʻs, the whole statement was about Itachiʻs V4 susanoo using yaata, and therefore yaata should be much more durable than itachiʻs V4 susanoo by default.


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## Dr. White (Sep 23, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Iʻm not trying to make the point that yaata comes with any V4 susanoo or if it even automatically came with itachiʻs, the whole statement was about Itachiʻs V4 susanoo using yaata, and therefore yaata should be much more durable than itachiʻs V4 susanoo by default.



Oh ok, sorry for jumping to conclusions, it just scars you after having to argue that for multiple pages.


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## ueharakk (Sep 23, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Oh ok, sorry for jumping to conclusions, it just scars you after having to argue that for multiple pages.



itʻs all good. and i understand too.


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## Ersa (Sep 23, 2014)

Yata's hype is still very valid I feel, especially since it's offensive counterpart with similar NLF hype sucked up an opponent with Bijuu level chakra without any hassle. At the very least it needs to be given more credit, certainly more then fucking Odama Rasengan.


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## ARGUS (Sep 24, 2014)

TSB is easily the best 
it can be used to negate all ninjutsu, hell it even negated Edo Tensei regeneration, and its defense is strong enough to prevent obito from a SM TBB, and its also durable enough to prevent the user from most taijutsu attacks such as madara tanking guys AT 

Preta would be next, based on feats, 
it would easily beat yata and V4 due to the fact that it absorbs the susanoo completely, any chakra based ninjutsu is just food for preta, with the exception of those that are simply too big such as PS and Super TBB 
but any taijutsu would completely shit on Preta with ease 

Yata based on hype is limitless  
however based on feats its still a part of V4 susanoo, therefore the same durability feats can be applied to that, nonetheless there isnt much to talk about, which is why based on feats it comes third


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## Rain (Sep 24, 2014)

Yata Mirror is the most powerful because it's invincible.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2014)

Sasuke's sword bounced off Yata. It went through JJ Madara like butter. Which makes Yata more durable than JJ Madara.

So going by feats and hype :

Yata > Godo > Preta


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## Rocky (Sep 24, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sasuke's sword bounced off Yata. It went through JJ Madara like butter. Which makes Yata more durable than JJ Madara.
> 
> So going by feats and hype :
> 
> Yata > Godo > Preta



Actually, those balls are more durable than the Jins themselves. That's why they shield with them. 

It would be:

Truth Seekers > Raikage > Yata > Preta


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## LostSelf (Sep 24, 2014)

Black Jinton: Nuff said.

Preta Path: Here's the trick. If we use literally the hype Yata Mirror received (Weird hype at this point when you see how retconned was Zetsu), Preta Path has said to absorb _all_ ninjutsu despite of the size, and it has done so. And not only absorbs them, but it repelenishes your chakra. Yata Mirror might tank everything, but if Preta can absorb every ninjutsu and give you it's chakra, then it's more practical and considering that you don't need to have Susano'o (or something like that) to use it, Preta is better.

Yata Mirror: though. It covers only one side (while Preta covers you completely and Gedou damas can move to cover you from all angles).

In that order.


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## Alex Payne (Sep 24, 2014)

Black Balls of Doom are obviously #1. As for #2... Preta has actual solid feats. But there wasn't anything to counter Yata's hype. Preta protects from all sides while Yata just from one so with crazy AoE it is possible to bypass it(assuming it is just Yata of course). I personally place Yata a bit higher because it also works against pure physical attacks. While Preta Path is completely useless against those. Plus Gokage were able to bypass Preta by combining their attacks - something I don't see working on Yata Mirror.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Actually, those balls are more durable than the Jins themselves. That's why they shield with them.
> 
> It would be:
> 
> Truth Seekers > Raikage > Yata > Preta




True. But I don't see how Raikage is above Yata ? At the very best you can say that he is equal.

edit : Actually, I gave it a thought and TSB aren't more durable than Jins. At least not in all cases.

Gai broke through it, but Madara was intact after that punch. The main reason why they block with it is because it negates chakra based attacks, aka ninnjutsu.

So I am not sure about its placement as of now.


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## Rocky (Sep 24, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> True. But I don't see how Raikage is above Yata ? At the very best you can say that he is equal.



Sasuke's sword bounced off Yata, yes.

However, Sasuke's _lightning_ sword bounced off Raikage.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Sasuke's sword bounced off Yata, yes.
> 
> However, Sasuke's _lightning_ sword bounced off Raikage.



Thats where the hype comes in. Raikage was penetrated(albeit slightly) by Chidori. I don't see chidori penetrating through Yata


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## Rocky (Sep 24, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Thats where the hype comes in. Raikage was penetrated(albeit slightly) by Chidori. I don't see chidori penetrating through Yata



Doesn't underestimate the power of Chidori. It was said to pierce _anything._


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2014)

Rocky said:


> Doesn't underestimate the power of Chidori. It was said to pierce _anything._



Well, when you think about, did Chidori ever fail to penetrate anything ? 

Dat hype


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## Bloo (Sep 24, 2014)

Based on feats (and some hype):
Gudōdama > Yata Mirror >>> Preta Path

I don't think I have to elaborate as to why I put Gudōdama first. It seems pretty universally accepted that it should be ranked 1st based on what we've seen. I placed Yata Mirror above Preta Path because it has tons of hype. However, along with hype, we know for a fact that Preta Path cannot deal with Senjutsu, but Yata Mirror may be able to. On top of that, Preta Path can't do shit against taijutsu, Yata Mirror has shown capable to do so (even though the taijutsu it defended against wasn't impressive, Preta Path literally doesn't do anything against taijutsu, so Yata beats it here by default). Also, Yata Mirror takes time to form and Itachi manifested Susano'o within 1/1000 of a second. I HIGHLY doubt that Yata Mirror was formed when Itachi was hit with Kirin. For that reason, I say it's safe to assume that Yata Mirror can withstand attacks greater than the strength of Kirin. But, for arguments sake, we'll say Yata Mirror can at least deal with Kirin. That is more impressive than anything Preta has done, and I doubt Preta could even block it, seeing as how it's pure elemental chakra.


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## Bonly (Sep 24, 2014)

Bloo said:


> we know for a fact that Preta Path cannot deal with Senjutsu, but Yata Mirror may be able to.



Just to correct you here, Preta path has absorbed Senjutsu before .


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

To be fair by virtue of Yata being a shield it is better than Preta. Preta can't block physical attacks from people or summons, Yata can. On top of that Yata can protect/nullify the elemental wheel, and has shown to be able to protect from real fire (explosive tags) and lightning (kirin). So yeah Goudama > Yata > Preta.


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## Bloo (Sep 24, 2014)

Bonly said:


> Just to correct you here, Preta path has absorbed Senjutsu before .


Fine. Yata should be able to block without turning into a toad statue.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Fine. Yata should be able to block without turning into a toad statue.



Based on fan fiction ? 



Bonly said:


> Just to correct you here, Preta path has absorbed Senjutsu before .



Yes but we know that in a high dose of senjtsu the user turns into a toad stone.


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Based on fan fiction ?


Based on the fact that Susano isn't living? That is only a side effect of living things not being able to balance the Nature energy.


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## Bloo (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Based on fan fiction ?


Based on common sense. I would enjoy to see an argument for how an ethereal, spiritual, inanimate weapon that is manifested through chakra would be permanently turned into a toad statue. Please share with me your insight.


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## Bonly (Sep 24, 2014)

Bloo said:


> Fine. Yata should be able to block without turning into a toad statue.



Aye that's better


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## Arles Celes (Sep 24, 2014)

Hype: Yata>Gudoudamas>Preta

Feats: Gudoudamas>Preta>>>Yata


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Based on the fact that Susano isn't living? That is only a side effect of living things not being able to balance the Nature energy.





Bloo said:


> Based on common sense. I would enjoy to see an argument for how an ethereal, spiritual, inanimate weapon that is manifested through chakra would be permanently turned into a toad statue. Please share with me your insight.




Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra from the user. Prime example would be when Orochimaru talked about senjutsu susanoo.
If the yata could even absorb senjutsu ( we dont know ) it would turn the user into a statue frog

Orochimaru said that Sasuke's body adapted to the senjutsu...
If susanoo is to absorb senjutsu... the user would take the full effect.


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## Hachibi (Sep 24, 2014)

By Common Sense Gudodama > Preta > Yata but common sense doesn't apply to anything related to Itachi so
Yata > All


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 24, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> By Common Sense Gudodama > Preta > Yata but common sense doesn't apply to anything related to Itachi so
> Yata > All



By common sense you'd place the shield above Preta as it isn't only limited to stopping chakra based attacks.
But hey, fuck common sense right ?


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra from the user. Prime example would be when Orochimaru talked about senjutsu susanoo.
> If the yata could even absorb senjutsu ( we dont know ) it would turn the user into a statue frog


No this is wrong. Yata would just block a Senjutsu attack because nature energy is not on the wheel. But anyway it doesn't matter if Susano is a manifestation of Uchiha chakra because it isn't living. Things only turn into stone Frogs if they are living and can't balance the energy.

Sasuke had no training at balancing Sage chakra so by your logic Juugo adding Senjutsu to his PS should have turned Sauce into a stone.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> *No this is wrong. Yata would just block a Senjutsu attack because nature energy is not on the wheel.* But anyway it doesn't matter if Susano is a manifestation of Uchiha chakra because it isn't living. Things only turn into stone Frogs if they are living and can't balance the energy.
> 
> Sasuke had no training at balancing Sage chakra so by your logic Juugo adding Senjutsu to his PS should have turned Sauce into a stone.



Here we go with fan fiction again.... yata has all the elements we know shit on how it reacts to senjutsu,

You failed to see my point go back to the chapter where Orochimaru explained the senjutsu susanoo that sasuke had.
That was the point Sasuke had some practice with it... the Cursed Seal and this is why it didnt turn into stone any other user would have turn to stone or go mad like juugo.

Read the manga dude


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Here we go with fan fiction again.... yata has all the elements we know shit on how it reacts to senjutsu,


-Nature energy is not on the chakra wheel.
-The databook explained that it uses the elemental wheel to cancel ninjutsu.

Therefore there is nothing to suggest it would absorb Natural energy, just like it didn't absorb natural lightning or fire. 



> You failed to see my point go back to the chapter where Orochimaru explained the senjutsu susanoo that sasuke had.
> That was the point Sasuke had some practice with it... the Cursed Seal and this is why it didnt turn into stone any other user would have turn to stone or go mad like juugo.
> 
> Read the manga dude


I fail to see your point because it is non existent. Susano is not a living construct and therefore will not turn to stone. Susano does not transport damage or it's properties back to its user, so having CS Susano meant nothing.

Orochimaru was explaining why Juugo could match up and power up Sasuke with his cursed Seal, explaining since Sasuke had it since pre CE exams his body was compatible and wouldn't go haywire. 

But that was because Juugo was powering up Sasuke with his permission, by *injecting his power into Sasuke* , obviously if Itachi is facing someone and using the Yata mirror he isn't gonna allow them to transfer Sage chakra into his body. That is the only way he would turn to stone. But Yata mirror is not gonna absorb Nature energy, and even if it did it wouldn't transfer that to Itachi's body the same way it doesn't transfer damage or energy from attacks. Like come on.

You should actually comprehend the manga when you read it.


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## The Faceless Man (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> *-Nature energy is not on the chakra wheel.
> -The databook explained that it uses the elemental wheel to cancel ninjutsu.
> 
> Therefore there is nothing to suggest it would absorb Natural energy, just like it didn't absorb natural lightning or fire. *
> ...



By that account we could also get the effect of maybe destoying it since we dont know what would happen....
Read the manga and the part i told you to.
Sasuke no longer has that.

I said that what could possible happen. If it were to absorb... Itachi would turn to stone. 

Best scenario is that senjutsu would destoy the yata mirror since senjutsu is not an element and it even worked on juubi jins.

Bye bye


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> By that account we could also get the effect of maybe destoying it since we dont know what would happen....
> Read the manga and the part i told you to.
> Sasuke no longer has that.


What are you talking about? Your speech is incoherent. I already told you Orochimaru was talking about Juugo directly powering up Sasuke. 



> I said that what could possible happen. If it were to absorb... Itachi would turn to stone.


No because in order for that to happen Susano would have to transfer its qualities to Itachi's body, which never happens with Susano. So unless Itachi himself is absorbing the Senjutsu it doesn;t matter he won't turn into stone.



> Best scenario is that senjutsu would destoy the yata mirror since senjutsu is not an element and it even worked on juubi jins.


Senjutsu Kimmimaro bones got caught through like butter by Susano'o. The only Senjutsu attack (not counting Hashirama) getting through Yata is Senpouhou Odama FRS.



> Bye bye


Concession accepted.


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## ueharakk (Sep 24, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> To be fair by virtue of Yata being a shield it is better than Preta. Preta can't block physical attacks from people or summons, Yata can. On top of that Yata can protect/nullify the elemental wheel, and has shown to be able to protect from real fire (explosive tags)* and lightning (kirin)*. So yeah Goudama > Yata > Preta.



Donʻt fall into the trap of asserting the bolded.

Kirin destroyed whatever version of susanoo itachi used to defend himself with and still had enough power to destroy itachiʻs akatsuki robe and leave him face down on the ground.

Saying yaata went up against kirin is suicide for a pro-itachi/susanoo advocate even if you donʻt believe that yaata has no limits, as kirin is a mere mountain buster, and it would mean a mountain buster > yaata + V4 susanoo.  And thatʻs lowballing itachiʻs susanoo by my standards.


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## Dr. White (Sep 24, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> Donʻt fall into the trap of asserting the bolded.
> 
> Kirin destroyed whatever version of susanoo itachi used to defend himself with and still had enough power to destroy itachiʻs akatsuki robe and leave him face down on the ground.
> 
> Saying yaata went up against kirin is suicide for a pro-itachi/susanoo advocate even if you donʻt believe that yaata has no limits, as kirin is a mere mountain buster, and it would mean a mountain buster > yaata + V4 susanoo.  And thatʻs lowballing itachiʻs susanoo by my standards.


True. His weapons weren't even introduced up until that point as well.


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## Bloo (Sep 24, 2014)

The Faceless Man said:


> Susanoo is a manifestation of chakra from the user. Prime example would be when Orochimaru talked about senjutsu susanoo.
> If the yata could even absorb senjutsu ( we dont know ) it would turn the user into a statue frog


We're the ones using fanfiction???


			
				Databook said:
			
		

> *Yata Mirror*
> The substance-less spiritual shield. Endowed will all Nature Alterations, it changes its own attributes in response to the attacks it receives, making the jutsu ineffective.



Where in that description does it say that Itachi is absorbing the chakra? Quit being irrational. Shields don't absorb, they block.


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## Trojan (Sep 24, 2014)

In term of defence only.

Preta Path > Gedu-damas > Itachi's mirror.

The Gedu-damas can be overwhelmed with attacks that has some Senjutsu in them, and you can get rid of them
with Kakashi's Kamui, or Minato's FTG...etc

Preta path however, will absorb any jutsu, it does not matter if it has Senjutsu in it or not, it's all irrelevant. 
Of course, that depends on the user ability to handle the Senjutsu, but it can take it nevertheless. 

However, if you want to talk about defence and offence, then the Gedu-dama will be better since it can actually be used in both ways. 

as for the Yata Mirror, I believe it got destroyed by Kirin the first time.


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## Bloo (Sep 24, 2014)

Hussain said:


> In term of defence only.
> 
> Preta Path > Gedu-damas > Itachi's mirror.
> 
> ...


Preta Path has no answer to Taijutsu. Put it up against Gai and Yata Mirror is by default superior.


> *as for the Yata Mirror, I believe it got destroyed by Kirin the first time. *


No. Susano'o was destroyed. Itachi had a 1/1000th of a second to summon Susano'o, and the spiritual items (Totsuka no Tsurugi & Yata Mirror) take some time to manifest. Totsuka can't be used until V4. Yata has never been shown outside of V3. Itachi most likely only summoned V1.

Besides, I don't see Preta Path being capable of handling Kirin, honestly.


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## Trojan (Sep 24, 2014)

- Pretty sure B's attack with Lariat against Nagato was Taijutsu. 
- When was it ever stated that they need time to be used?


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## Ersa (Sep 25, 2014)

It's 2014 and people still think Kirin busted the Mirror.


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## Trojan (Sep 25, 2014)

How is that relevant? 
Do you mean the past chapters change over time? 

like if konohamare defeated one of Nagato's path in 2008
it's possible that he did not really defeat him in 2014, because the drawing changed itself? O_o


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## CatnipAvenger (Sep 25, 2014)

Let's be more specific about preta. Preta absorbs chakra, not necessarily jutsu, as evident by the Naruto frog hug.


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## Bloo (Sep 25, 2014)

Hussain said:


> - Pretty sure B's attack with Lariat against Nagato was Taijutsu.


Lariat is ninjutsu...


> - When was it ever stated that they need time to be used?


By the fact that V3 Susano'o, the lowest form it's been seen in, takes time to be used.


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