# Gai vs. Naruto



## Rocky (Mar 19, 2015)

*Location:* _A vs. Naruto_
*Distance:* _10 meters_
*Knowledge:* _Manga_
*Mindset:* _IC_
*Restrictions:*_ Shimon, Hirodura, Rasenshuriken, Kage Bunshin_

*This is Naruto immediately following his fight with the Raikage (but fresh).


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## Icegaze (Mar 19, 2015)

naruto would find it quite hard to beat 6th gate
gai 

i am assuming 7th gate isnt allowed otherwise hirduroa would be allowed 

with just AS at his disposal gai would find it hard to beat naruto who has bunshin and greater fire power 

nice match up. gai looses though


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## Rocky (Mar 19, 2015)

Kyōmon is allowed. You also reminded me...


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## Icegaze (Mar 19, 2015)

why is kyomon allowed but not hirudora 

ah i dont like that weird restriction 

just make it gai but nothing over 6th gate


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## Rocky (Mar 19, 2015)

Nah        .


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## Ghost (Mar 19, 2015)

Guy is restricted to the sixth gate? Naruto stomps.


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## Rocky (Mar 19, 2015)

I don't see the seventh gate on the restrictions list.


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## Horizon28 (Mar 19, 2015)

Naruto wins high diff
Short distance tho,I'm wondering if Guy will blitz Naruto and kill him with AS.


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## Icegaze (Mar 19, 2015)

I dont see why AS would one shot naruto. he is capable of following 6th gate speed and avoiding those fists 

as for gai brawling in 7th gate without hirudora he simply doesnt have the fire power to take naruto out. he needs his gated moves


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## Ghost (Mar 19, 2015)

Rocky said:


> I don't see the seventh gate on the restrictions list.


I read that as the 7th gate being restricted.

Naruto still wins though. He has the advantage in speed, strength (striking strength goes for Guy), durability, stamina and variety.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 19, 2015)

Not seeing how Naruto stands a chance. Given what he did to JJ Madara, Naruto would get manhandled in a close combat encounter, and Gai can use his nunchaku to up his offensive power, since he's already capable of smashing rock unarmed. Amp that with the Kyomon's power and give him his Nunchaku, I don't see Naruto taking repeated barrages of hits.

Then there's Asa Kujaku.


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## Icegaze (Mar 19, 2015)

smashing rocks is nice and all but so far Ei physical strength >>gai 

and naruto took Ei punch


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## LostSelf (Mar 19, 2015)

7th gates Gai is enough to be able to keep up with V2 Ei, while V1 Ei was keeping up with non-serious Naruto, neither will be blitzing the other here, and Naruto is not winning a CqC combat against Gai. The man could do nothing to hold his ground with Obito in KCM with clones, while Gai could at the very least do way better than Naruto in taijutsu.

Engaging now a 7th gate Gai is overkill. The only time where Gai was surprised by Naruto's speed was when he used BM.

But with Rasengans and chakra arms, Naruto should even the odds, he also can use that mode for more time than Gai. So while Naruto prevents engaging Gai for long periods of time in close combat, he should be able to win, or outlast.

The problem is that Naruto relies on his clones almost all the time. In fact, i've rarely seen him (or remember seeing him) fighting one on one against deadly opponents in taijutsu, bar the Raikage, who was doing a great job against Naruto almost the entire fight.

I don't find Naruto very durable, but i don't see MP taking him down, even though Gai can use more than one set of super-sonic punches, one Rasengan, coupled with the side effects of gates that will certainly create more damage, would be bad.

Or at least, more than one, as Gai, in the 8th gate, could take hits from Juudara, wich should have much more fire power than Naruto, and was still fighting, so, who knows.


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## Ghost (Mar 19, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Given what he did to JJ Madara,


What Guy did to JJ Madz? Entertained him like a circus monkey?


> Naruto would get manhandled in a close combat encounter,


Guy has skill while Naruto is faster, more durable and has the stronger grip.


> and Gai can use his nunchaku to up his offensive power, since he's already capable of smashing rock unarmed. Amp that with the Kyomon's power and give him his Nunchaku,


Unpredictable chakra arms that even cause trouble for the Sharingan > fucking Nunchakus. 


> I don't see Naruto taking repeated barrages of hits.


Good thing Naruto doesn't have to stand still and let Guy hit him. And with the durability that Kurama's shroud gives Naruto can take hits.


> Then there's Asa Kujaku.


Ah yes, good ol' one shot one kill Asa Kujaku that cannot be avoided.


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## Legendary Itachi (Mar 19, 2015)

Naruto throws Gai like a pinball with chakra arms and one-shot him with Yatai-Kuzushi on sky. 

The Raikage is physically stronger than Gai, without his strongest punch Gai isn't damaging Naruto's avatar a bit. Given the distance Naruto may even bamflash him before Gai can do anything.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 19, 2015)

Saikyou said:


> What Guy did to JJ Madz? Entertained him like a circus monkey?



He pushed him back with his speed and Taijutsu, whereas Minato was cut down like a fodder. He pushed him back with his speed and Taijutsu and the only opportunity Madara had to counter was when Hirudora was let loose.

I already tell that you are going to spend the majority of this discussion downplaying the feat..though it won't changed what happened. You can make the "Madara was playing" excuse, but it doesn't change the fact that he cut down Minato right away instead of evading. Should've done the same to Gai.



> Guy has skill while Naruto is faster, more durable and has the stronger grip.



Except Naruto is not faster. A stronger grip? Not relevant. More durable? Doesn't matter when Gai has the power needed to hurt him.



> Unpredictable chakra arms that even cause trouble for the Sharingan > fucking Nunchakus.


If they clash, then sure. 



> Good thing Naruto doesn't have to stand still and let Guy hit him.



Good thing that:

1. Shunshin isn't a continuous movement, so he won't always be moving at flash speed, and his normal speed is nothing compared to Gai's. 

2. Gai's feat against Madara easily puts him in a speed tier where Naruto can't easily outrun his attacks.




> And with the durability that Kurama's shroud gives Naruto can take hits.



From Asa Kujaku? Uh, no.



> Ah yes, good ol' one shot one kill Asa Kujaku that cannot be avoided.



Given the AoE, Gai's speed advantage, and the fact Naruto has zero ways of diverting his attention, yes, it lands and easily at that.

@Icegaze: Yes, Ay's physical strength>Gai's, but Gai's striking speed easily makes up for that. F=MA. The faster Gai punches, the more force he'll put out, and considering he can punch in rapid barrages while Ay can't, he'd easily be able to do as much damage as Ay can. Ay's best physical strength feat is smashing a cliff when in V2. Gai can do that to boulders in Base. Up him to the 7G and give him a weapon, and he'd be able to match Ay in this area.

Then there's the fact that Naruto had to block Ay's punch. He didn't tank it. He won't be able to do the same to Gai considering in a close combat encounter, Gai would run circles around him. His striking speed and reaction speed was fast enough to prevent Madara from cutting him down like Sage Minato got cut down, you can forget about KCM Naruto blocking all his hits.


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## ARGUS (Mar 19, 2015)

So this is KCM Naruro (w/o clones) vs 7G Guy (w/o AT)?
If that's the case than guy beats the ever living shit out of him 

 -- all of narutos projectiles are meaningless infront of guy, he evades them with literally no difficulty at all, and proceeds to attack naruto at CQC in a taijutsu brawl where naruto stands no chance 

 -- speed and reflexes to push back JJ madara whilst KCM naruto was Neely getting blitzed by juubito (who is much slower), clearly puts guy on a higher level in that department, meaning that naruto gets pushed back and obliterated with his gated attacks and throughout guys gates, naruto gets smacked around and ragdolled till he's killed 

 -- no shadow clones means no sneak attacks or diversions added to the fact that naruto is slower, has weaker physical blows and is unable to land a hit on him, yeah he gets wrecked


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 19, 2015)

7th Gate Gai effortlessly blitzes clones and just before he chops KCM Naruto's head off, he says, "I didn't know Gai can use Shunshin." 

 That's how fast 7th Gate Gai is, but people refuse to admit it *cough* *cough* Icegaze.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 19, 2015)

Gai takes this quite comfortably. He saved KCM Naruto a couple times against Rinnegan Obito without using gates (base). KCM Naruto/BM humanoid Naruto failed to blitz Rinnegan Obito even with a bunshin feint, Gai's feats against Rinnegan Obito weren't far off from what KCM Naruto was doing if not superior to it as he individually avoided touch-warping while Naruto, almost every time, required aid to prevent being grab-warped by Obito. 

6th & 7th Gated Gai should be comfortably above KCM Naruto's speed caliber and his enhanced physical strength (Gates enhancing muscle efficiency) moving at speeds to light the air around his limbs on fire (velocity = enhanced power) will eventually beat a Naruto, who had his shoulder dislocated from Juubi simply breaking out of concrete near him, into disability and/or death.


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

The Gai wank has plagued these forums so stupid hard.

And I really don't think people know when naruto actually isn't using Shunshin either, it's actually quite annoying at this point.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 20, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> The Gai wank has plagued these forums so stupid hard.
> 
> And I really don't think people know when naruto actually isn't using Shunshin either, it's actually quite annoying at this point.



 That doesn't refute anything that was stated.

 KCM Naruto never had the reactions to effectively evade Obito the way Base Gai did meaning he cannot dodge 7th Gate Gai's sheer speed even with Shunshin simply because his reactions aren't high enough to react to it and also because his Shunshin requires him to be able to react to an attack as he has to disperse chakra towards his feet in order to even use it.

 So basically, KCM Naruto's reaction feats suggests he won't even be able to prepare a Shunshin before 7th Gate Gai destroys him.


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> That doesn't refute anything that was stated.
> 
> KCM Naruto never had the reactions to effectively evade Obito the way Base Gai did meaning he cannot dodge 7th Gate Gai's sheer speed even with Shunshin simply because his reactions aren't high enough to react to it and also because his Shunshin requires him to be able to react to an attack as he has to disperse chakra towards his feet in order to even use it.
> 
> So basically, KCM Naruto's reaction feats suggests he won't even be able to prepare a Shunshin before 7th Gate Gai destroys him.



What? The post was never in response to any single individual regardless . The fact that you quoted this and then brought up specific instances which I never even addressed just doesn't really make sense to be honest. But yeah I actually will refute them .

This is just dead wrong. Not only did plot completely nerf Naruto's abilities but Naruto  reacted to a V2 Ay punch which is canonically faster than any shunshin( or dash ) that 7th gated Gai can muster . The reason Naruto did so poorly against Obito is because Obito is not only better at Taijustu than Naruto but he is able to use Kamui in conjunction with the sharingans ability to read body movements to land blindsided attacks on a no shunshin Naruto . Notice how when Obito did get serious and one on one encountered Gai, he was able to casually warp his nunchucks in using kamui ? Now Gai still may be better than Obito in CQC, but as long as Naruto uses his shunshin to escape CQC confrontations he should be fine. In the unlikely scenario that Gai actually closes the gap between him and Naruto and engages CQC, nothing bar MP would put him down , and I'm not even entirely positive that it's heat damage would overide blunt force damage considering Narutos  shared V1 cloak tanks juubi sized katon and Naruto canonically survives bjuidama breaking in his face with mere scratches despite the heat.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 20, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> What? The post was never in response to any single individual regardless . The fact that you quoted this and then brought up specific instances which I never even addressed just doesn't really make sense to be honest. But yeah I actually will refute them .
> 
> This is just dead wrong. Not only did plot completely nerf Naruto's abilities but Naruto  reacted to a V2 Ay punch which is canonically faster than any shunshin( or dash ) that 7th gated Gai can muster . The reason Naruto did so poorly against Obito is because Obito is not only better at Taijustu than Naruto but he is able to use Kamui in conjunction with the sharingans ability to read body movements to land blindsided attacks on a no shunshin Naruto . Notice how when Obito did get serious and one on one encountered Gai, he was able to casually warp his nunchucks in using kamui ? Now Gai still may be better than Obito in CQC, but as long as Naruto uses his shunshin to escape CQC confrontations he should be fine. In the unlikely scenario that Gai actually closes the gap between him and Naruto and engages CQC, nothing bar MP would put him down , and I'm not even entirely positive that it's heat damage would overide blunt force damage considering Narutos  shared V1 cloak tanks juubi sized katon and Naruto canonically survives bjuidama breaking in his face with mere scratches despite the heat.





 - First sentence falls apart because you cannot prove that argument.

 - No. KCM Naruto needed Gai's aid in order to do something. Obito fodderized KCM Naruto's clones and pushed him around like a ragdoll and here we have Base Gai matching Obito's moves effortlessly and actually be commented on his Taijutsu and Reflexes. Regardless of whether or not Obito managed to absorb Gai's Nunchucks, Obito still would have absorbed KCM Naruto easily without Gai's help. Once Base Gai appeared, Obito couldn't even absorb him and outright dodging Obito's absorption tumps nearly getting absorbed by Obito.

 - Casually warping Gai's Nuchucks was more or less part of the plan as Gai relied on them earlier and smiled as Obito used his absorption. It's obvious the nunchucks weren't needed at that point.

 - KCM Naruto doesn't have reflexes to Shunshin out of 7th Gate Gai's sheer speed. Juubidara couldn't even get out of 7th Gate Gai's range and you think KCM Naruto can Shunshin out of it? Just apply some common sense. Juubito blitzed KCM Naruto. Juubidara >> Juubito, and 7th Gate Gai matched his speed. Therefore, 7th Gate Gai blitzes KCM Naruto. It's not rocket science.

 - Nothing will take down KCM Naruto? A punch from V2 Ei would've killed him and Obito effortlessly whacked him around like a rag-doll without deflecting his ninjutsu back at him and KCM Naruto clearly felt pain. KCM Naruto isn't durable enough to withstand a flying kick that collides directly with his face.

 - Those V1 Cloaks were given by BM Naruto. KCM Naruto never made contact with Madara and Obito's Katon and size of the Katon is irrelevant, so that didn't really prove KCM Naruto's durability at all.

 - What Bijuudama feat are you talking about? KCM Naruto couldn't tank hits from Obito's Gumbai and that was relying on his own physical strength rather than deflecting his ninjutsu back at him.


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> - First sentence falls apart because you cannot prove that argument.
> 
> - No. KCM Naruto needed Gai's aid in order to do something. Obito fodderized KCM Naruto's clones and pushed him around like a ragdoll and here we have Base Gai matching Obito's moves effortlessly and actually be commented on his Taijutsu and Reflexes. Regardless of whether or not Obito managed to absorb Gai's Nunchucks, Obito still would have absorbed KCM Naruto easily without Gai's help. Once Base Gai appeared, Obito couldn't even absorb him and outright dodging Obito's absorption tumps nearly getting absorbed by Obito.
> 
> ...



Me saying Narutos abilities were nerfed can actually be proven...

Do you also realize that Naruto wasn't using flash shunshin and was attacking with base Resengan and taijjstu? Cause I also noticed that and that's something you tend to not mention in your argument at all.

Yeah I'm actually gonna need you to provide some panels here, because as far as I'm concerned Gai was merely able to stop Obito from warping Naruto, and actually never engaged him in an actual battle. Once he did, his chucks were warped instantly. 

Yes Obito would have been able to absorb Naruto that wasn't using his shunshin, and he would have most likely absorbed a clone given that the Sharingan cannot see the difference between the original and clone and that he actually thought he had absorbed a clone when it was actually Kakashi that did.

Was part of Gai's plan? Sounds exactly like something you literally just created. Got any proof ? Cause even if Gai did smirk, that's more along the lines of him not actually needing a weapon than him being able to stop Obito from warping it away. Feats prove that he couldn't stop Obito from warping them away actually.

, that scaling is God awful, considering you missed a key amount of details. Not only did juubidara not use shunshin and relied solely on foot speed and blocking( didn't even through) but he let Gai do that and chose not to fight back... Proof of this ?... Madara was able to react to a Red Aura dash at a closer distance which is >>>>> to 7th gated Gai by absolute logic. He didn't have to be put in that situation, he merely chose to, which highlights his pretty consistent personality. 

How do you know the punch would have killed him? It seems like Naruto was actually taking punches from AY the entire time, and wasn't actually injured. And Ay > Gai in physical strength. Ummm, Obito was dispersing clones , which are dispersed from a single hit, which isn't even indicative of actual durability.

KCM Naruto isn't durable enough to withstand a flying kick to the face.... Assuming it actually hits him: 2,
Which didn't really hurt him and had enough power to drag him and Killer bee back whos already a powerhouse. 

Why does that matter ? A V1 cloak is still massively inferior to KCM Narutos cloak and it withstood legendary uchiha Flames without any damage. 

I worded it weird, but I mean Naruto can hold a Bjuidama in his arms which are extremely hot: 2
2
2


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> 7th Gate Gai effortlessly blitzes clones and just before he chops KCM Naruto's head off, he says, "I didn't know Gai can use Shunshin."
> 
> That's how fast 7th Gate Gai is, but people refuse to admit it *cough* *cough* Icegaze.



yet his fastest punch gets trolled with the same ease as minato attack 
*cough cough* strong denial 

hirudora>>>>>>>every other thing gai has in 7th gate both in speed and power. 

7th gate gai aint blitzing here and even if he did 
he got *ZERO* feats to suggest he can beat naruto with just taijutsu. he needs his gated techniques a mere punch wont do it


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## LostSelf (Mar 20, 2015)

The Gai wank is plaguing the forum, but the Gai hate is killing it. I mean, i've seen Gai wank posts, pretty bad. But i've seen Gai hate posts way worse.

Naruto isn't very durable in KCM Mode. The chakra cloack he gets is hardly the one that the Bijuus gets, examples of this are a lot, but the guy wrecked his anckle crashing his feet to the floor. It's up to the people to say that Gai's gated punches will do less damage than that, and if that's the case, they better ignore every Gai supporter here, because the hate is big .

Now we will compare speed? Sure, Naruto's shunshin speed is faster, but it's not something he uses all the time, in fact, he didnt even use it against Obito. Then, we have Naruto falling to even land hits on phasing Obito, while he have Gai in lower gates outrunning black balls that are too fast for Kamui (Don't give me plot answers that would only be used against your non-favorite character).

If people think Naruto is going to be avoiding 7th Gates Gai, all the time, like the Raikage would avoid Tsunade's or Mei's, whose movement speed was greatly retconned (Or dared to show it, since we never saw him moving before that), they surely have not been paying attention to his character.

Naruto might win this more times than not, but the guy will have a hard, hard time, again, considering that Gai, in a mode that destroys his body and kills him, could take hits from Juudara, so Naruto will have a hard time putting the man down with lesser fire power (Restricted, to make it worse) and Gai being in a mode he can shrugg off as proven in canon.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

naruto cloak did save him from han kick to the jaw. powered by steam. do read up on hans strength
he also allowed him to survive being burned by lava with basically no damage. 
sure lets downplay naruto durability 
also it allowed him to survive Ei punch. do read up on what Ei punch does to people like jugo who btw are very durable. unless u think a pseudo version of him tanking C2 isnt much


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## LostSelf (Mar 20, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> naruto cloak did save him from han kick to the jaw. powered by steam. do read up on hans strength
> he also allowed him to survive being burned by lava with basically no damage.
> sure lets downplay naruto durability
> also it allowed him to survive Ei punch. do read up on what Ei punch does to people like jugo who btw are very durable. unless u think a pseudo version of him tanking C2 isnt much



This comment is pointless (if it was directed to me) as i never said Naruto was not durable. He is not as durable as his transformations, to be more clear. But let me bite:

Being powered by steam is amazing and all, but i am pretty sure Gai the speed at wich he will me moving will power his kick more than Han's steam did.

He survived being burned by lava? Or he was only feeling pain grabbing Roshi? I can survive if i touch lava or if i touch a very hot substance. If it is for brief time and if it only cover the palm of my hands.

And Ei's punch? How do you know that Ei was punching Naruto with the killing intent he had with Juugo? Because, you know, Ei only was preventing them from leaving, and only decided to kill Naruto when he went V2.

Not to mention that Juugo was against a wall and Ei was pushing his fist against him .


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

I'm not gonna lie, there is some Gai hatred around sometimes, but I'm tired of opening threads with Gai against high Kage level opoonents + and all I see is Gai blitzes everytime. No... Gai is not blizting everyone on every thread.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> This comment is pointless (if it was directed to me) as i never said Naruto was not durable. He is not as durable as his transformations, to be more clear. But let me bite:




come at me bro



> Being powered by steam is amazing and all, but i am pretty sure Gai the speed at wich he will me moving will power his kick more than Han's steam did.



kishi disagrees. read the DB. also gai has no feats of kicking anyone that far with that much force



> He survived being burned by lava? Or he was only feeling pain grabbing Roshi? I can survive if i touch lava or if i touch a very hot substance. If it is for brief time and if it only cover the palm of my hands.



he was. lava>>>>>>>>>fire 




> And Ei's punch? How do you know that Ei was punching Naruto with the killing intent he had with Juugo? Because, you know, Ei only was preventing them from leaving, and only decided to kill Naruto when he went V2.



he didnt but Ei punch regardless>>gai punch 



> Not to mention that Juugo was against a wall and Ei was pushing his fist against him .



which is still>>gai punch. 

notice asa kujaku despite the numerous hit failed to make a hole in shouten kisame. Ei has been shown to have the ability to kill with a punch or a karate chop. if naruto is surviving Ei punch. gai regular punches wont be doing much of anythign to him


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

When the hell did Gai take hits from Juubidara ?


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## Jad (Mar 20, 2015)

Gai should be able to kick people in half (Madara durability) like Lee did. 7th Gate Gai is faster than a thrown Rasen Shuriken by Naruto, which was the speed Lee was traveling at. And his strength should be so vastly superior to Lee's in base (Kyuubi mode). I mean Naruto's Shunshin in Kyuubi mode when he punched Kisame, made a dent in the wall that would make Gai laugh in the 7th Gate. Lee kicked Madara in half because his a taijutsu expert who knows how to land a kick to perform such a feat. Lee's goal was always to slice Madara in half to disconnect him from the Juubi (Kishimoto's goal for Lee). Your telling me Lee did not have this knowledge before hand, since he in the end executed his plan [technique] so perfectly.

Version 2 Ei, Bee, their lariats without being combined, their punches, they don't put holes in people either. Same with Gai's. But a kick performed like Lee, a Taijutsu master (as stated in the Databook), as shown in canon, makes sense. Different techniques result in different outcomes. Now I know what you are gonna say, why doesn't Gai go around kicking people in half. That's just up to Kishimoto to decide how he wants his fights to go and choreograph them.

Just want to make a note though. 7th Gate Gai pushed back Juubidara. Literally. And Juubito (in his incomplete state) could shatter Rib cage Sasuno with ease when he wanted to grab Sasuke's neck. You are telling me that if Gai was so much weaker than that strength feat, but is still able to push back a Madara who lives to humiliate people in one move (Minato comes to mind).​


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## LostSelf (Mar 20, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> I'm not gonna lie, there is some Gai hatred around sometimes, but I'm tired of opening threads with Gai against high Kage level opoonents + and all I see is Gai blitzes everytime. No... Gai is not blizting everyone on every thread.



I agree.



Icegaze said:


> come at me bro
> 
> kishi disagrees. read the DB. also gai has no feats of kicking anyone that far with that much force



Gai has feats to suggest he can puch or kick someone that far. His punches and kicks can go in a speed that creates friction and that was stated to be super sonic. Even if we assume Han can do one kick at faster movement speed, something i disagree if you see Gai outrunning Madara's black balls with likr 2-3 gates opened, it still doesn't match the hundred of punches Gai can do in seconds at speeds that far surpasses the movement of Han propelled by Steam.



> he was. lava>>>>>>>>>fire



Naruto just touched Roshi's hot body (Insert_ if you know what i mean meme_ here) brief. He wasn't bathed in lava. His hands were the only thing affected by it, and briefly, as he wanted to do it as quick as possible. This doesn't mean he won't get hurt by Lava.




> he didnt but Ei punch regardless>>gai punch



V1 Ei punch might be stronger than 1 hit of Gai. But it's not dealing more damage than consecutive hits from Gai. Also, Naruto blocked Ei's hit and mitigated the damage. Deva Path did the same against SM Naruto, whose strenght was enough to stop a Rhyno and send it flying.



> which is still>>gai punch.



It's not the same. Ei only opened a hole in Juugo because Juugo was between a wall and Ei's fist. It's not like he did it with the punch. He did it pushing his fist towards a Juugo that was unable to step back.

It's still a very good strenght feat, however.


> notice asa kujaku despite the numerous hit failed to make a hole in shouten kisame. Ei has been shown to have the ability to kill with a punch or a karate chop. if naruto is surviving Ei punch. gai regular punches wont be doing much of anythign to him



Because Shoten Kisame was not against a wall while Gai pushed his fist against it. Also, Ei's shroud gives him cutting properties, so who says he didn't use it with Juugo but not with Naruto?



Likes boss said:


> When the hell did Gai take hits from Juubidara ?



It was off panel. Before Naruto's chapters, Gai was like this, the last time we saw him. (1)

And here, he appears without his jacket and bleeding. And grabbing a rock, as if he was standing up from a hit (2) Juudara should've damaged him as well during the fight. And considering he couldn't keep up with Gai, who knows if Gai had to face ninjutsu such as Limbo. But that's going into the assumption line.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

Jad said:


> Come on man, did Gai kick Kisame like Lee did Madara? I made a point to even show how even stronger and faster people than Kyuubi Lee can't put holes or cleave people's heads off, but Lee a lesser form, can? It's in the technique and it was done. Lee come in like a knife with his kick, straight to the stomach. Gai uppercutted Kisame with his kick, he did not come in like a slicing knife, like Lee did, from a distance.
> 
> 
> _Kyuubi mode Lee received_:
> ...



how was gai kick different. 
true no gates. that just means KN1 boost exceeds gated boost 
gai kick was the exact same. worse even gai leg was moving so fast his leg was on fire. 
neither lee or gai without kyuubi boost have remotely been implied or shown to punch holes in people or kick heads off 

in 700 pages of manga the only time lee or gai managed to kick a person in half was with KN1 boost. 

gai fought 3 times in the manga. kisame never even talked about how physically strong gai is.

@lostself Ei hardly ever fights by using cutting attacks. even his chop is a strength feat not a cutting feat. the only time he actually used his raiton in a sharp manner was to cut his hand. otherwise he uses blunt force attacks


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

@lostself.

Yeah I wouldn't assume Gai got hit there, im pretty sure his clothes were just dissolving from the Red Aura cloak and the speed he was moving at 
Before night Gai:2
After night Gai: 2

And he was holding the rock based on the side effects of the gates mode. A well placed hit from Juubidara should logically turn Gai into a puddle considering Juubito can move through Sussano casually, but then again Gai could have gotten the minato treatment..


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## Jad (Mar 20, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> how was gai kick different.
> true no gates. that just means KN1 boost exceeds gated boost
> gai kick was the exact same. worse even gai leg was moving so fast his leg was on fire.
> neither lee or gai without kyuubi boost have remotely been implied or shown to punch holes in people or kick heads off
> ...



I literally just told you Lee was moving as fast as a Rasenshuriken. Than I went on to prove that Kyuubi Mode Naruto couldn't make a dent larger than 7th Gate Gai. So how is Lee's Kyuubi chakara mode whilst in base, better than 7th Gate Gai?

Kisame said Morning Peacock destroys the target with flaming shock wave punches. I'm sure it's implied Gai is physically strong in that statement made by Kisame. However, Gai never actually used Taijutsu per se, against Kisame in close quarters in 7th Gate. But we have feats of Gai pushing back Juubidara, that should be enough. Since we know how strong Juubidara is when compared to Juubito. I don't see the issue in what I am say.

Ok, Ice, I've said it a few times man. Even Bee's lariat on his own can't cleave people's heads off, Version 2 Ei can't as well, hence the famous Double lariat. Gai can't as well if he doesn't perform the exact same style of kick as Lee. Gai drives his foot upwards to specifically knock his opponent in the air. Lee uses the speed of his body and the movement of his leg, to slice the enemy in half with a horiztonal kick. I don't understand what is wrong in what I am saying.

I showed the speed Lee was moving at, the strength comparison between Kyuubi mode Naruto and Gai, and how different styles of taijutsu can either knock or slice/cleave an opponent.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

Jad said:


> I literally just told you Lee was moving as fast as a Rasenshuriken. Than I went on to prove that Kyuubi Mode Naruto couldn't make a dent larger than 7th Gate Gai. So how is Lee's Kyuubi chakara mode whilst in base, better than 7th Gate Gai?
> 
> Kisame said Morning Peacock destroys the target with flaming shock wave punches. I'm sure it's implied Gai is physically strong in that statement made by Kisame. However, Gai never actually used Taijutsu per se, against Kisame in close quarters in 7th Gate. But we have feats of Gai pushing back Juubidara, that should be enough. Since we know how strong Juubidara is when compared to Juubito. I don't see the issue in what I am say.
> 
> ...



so u are saying 6th gate gai is slower than FRS? or was moving slower than FRS? despite his leg being so fast it caught fire? really ?

KN1 boost gave lee the ability to kick a person in half. does gai have such feats?? or even implied once in the manga to be able to do it? 

bee lariat on his own never cleaved any head off. it did blow sasuke chest out. thanks to bee shroud. again not feats that gai has or even implied to have 

the problem with what you are saying is that u think kyuubi boost isnt responsible for lee kick 

lets think about it. Bee lariat with no shroud at best knocks you back and hurts 
with shroud it blows sasuke chest open 

quite clearly the shroud gives a ridiculous boost thats all it is. Even in the DB larait is described as requiring a shroud to move at great speeds. 

bee and Ei have shown to be able to considerably damage a person with their hits. gai has as well but with his special gated techniques. despite all that none of his techniques have shown the strength to blow a chest open or kick a person in half


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## Jad (Mar 20, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> so u are saying 6th gate gai is slower than FRS? or was moving slower than FRS? despite his leg being so fast it caught fire? really ?
> 
> KN1 boost gave lee the ability to kick a person in half. does gai have such feats?? or even implied once in the manga to be able to do it?
> 
> ...



I am not saying the shroud did not contribute to Lee kicking Madara in half. But what I am saying is 7th Gate Gai is greater in everything Lee can do in Kyuubi mode, in base. Gai is just a much better Lee, so to tell me that the Kyuubi mode will give Lee a much better strength boost than Kyuubi Mode Naruto in his yellow flash form, and 7th Gate Gai is slower than Rasenshuriken, than I would say you are wrong.

I never once disputed the shrouds significance in any attacks done by Bee or A. I think you misinterpreted me, I'm just comparing Lee to Gai, Kyuubi mode to 7th Gate mode. I only used Bee and A as examples, because even in their shrouded forms, they can't cleave people's heads off. They need to be together to execute the cleaving technique, Double Lariat. Whilst Lee, a lesser version than both, could do so. That's all. Hence my pressure of me telling you a few times over again, that style of kick Lee performed is vastly different to anything Gai did in the past. The slicing knife, horizontal kick that combines body movement. You can see Lee is MOVING with that kick, not kicking at a standing or at least still position.

Gai never blew someones chest open, sure, he did one better. He instantly killed Kisame with only 30% chakra, but same durability. That's right, it was never stated durability took a nose dive. In fact, the clones were so "perfect", they even had the users Kekkei Genkai (Sharingan). Like Edo's. Hence my frustration in debating why Kisame wasn't given a death blow by Hirudora, because it was done on purpose. I also think it's VERY safe to say, Gai's strength and speed grew drastically from chapter 250 to (War Arc) 672. SO I find it hard to keep using old feats, when we have newer ones (Gai pushing back Juubidara).


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## LostSelf (Mar 20, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> @lostself.
> 
> Yeah I wouldn't assume Gai got hit there, im pretty sure his clothes were just dissolving from the Red Aura cloak and the speed he was moving at
> Before night Gai:2
> ...



But his clothes began to dissolve once Gai used Night Gai. When he was using the red gate, he wasn't. If you see his skin is perfect. Also, the aura comes from his body, i mean, from his skin, therefore, to vaporize his jacket, it should've vaporized his black suit.

I thought about the side effects, however, if he was in such a bad condition, that, he needed to take rests, and to grab rocks to sustain himself, instead of keep hitting Madara without giving him a chance to run or regenerate, then he wouldn't be able to use Night Gai. Juubito busted Susano'o crashing it, Gai probably wasn't hit by something like that. But yeah, he could've been hit like Minato was hit or by blunt force ninjutsu without such force to bust Susano'o, Either way, it would still be a pretty good feat, because he was hitting somebody whose body was destroying from the inside with every second.

I don't know how he might've been hit, honestly. However, he should've, even if by Madara's normal hits, or anything, or even once.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

Jad said:


> I am not saying the shroud did not contribute to Lee kicking Madara in half. But what I am saying is 7th Gate Gai is greater in everything Lee can do in Kyuubi mode, in base. Gai is just a much better Lee, so to tell me that the Kyuubi mode will give Lee a much better strength boost than Kyuubi Mode Naruto in his yellow flash form, and 7th Gate Gai is slower than Rasenshuriken, than I would say you are wrong.



any proof 7th gate gai has more physical strength than lee with the kyuubi boost? because he got no feats to suggest that or even DB implications. 7th gate gai is much much faster than FRS. like casually faster, not even a comparison. again bijuu cloak boost gave bee the strength to break half of the battle area he was fighting against taka. 

in V2 he blew kisame chest and created a hole in samehada. clearly bijuu cloak gives a ridiculous strength boost. greater than what 7th gate showed. thats all. 

it however doesnt mean gai wont mop the floor casually with Kyuubi cloak lee. 



> I never once disputed the shrouds significance in any attacks done by Bee or A. I think you misinterpreted me, I'm just comparing Lee to Gai, Kyuubi mode to 7th Gate mode. I only used Bee and A as examples, because even in their shrouded forms, they can't cleave people's heads off. They need to be together to execute the cleaving technique, Double Lariat. Whilst Lee, a lesser version than both, could do so. That's all. Hence my pressure of me telling you a few times over again, that style of kick Lee performed is vastly different to anything Gai did in the past. The slicing knife, horizontal kick that combines body movement. You can see Lee is MOVING with that kick, not kicking at a standing or at least still position.



kyuubi cloak gives lee more strength base on feats. its that simple. Lee kick looks the exact same as gai kick. did kishi say the style of kick is what made it possible? no. thats u assuming 
gai moved with his kick. look at the panel again. its the exact same kick. i dont get why u arguing this one



> Gai never blew someones chest open, sure, he did one better. He instantly killed Kisame with only 30% chakra, but same durability. That's right, it was never stated durability took a nose dive. In fact, the clones were so "perfect", they even had the users Kekkei Genkai (Sharingan). Like Edo's. Hence my frustration in debating why Kisame wasn't given a death blow by Hirudora, because it was done on purpose. I also think it's VERY safe to say, Gai's strength and speed grew drastically from chapter 250 to (War Arc) 672. SO I find it hard to keep using old feats, when we have newer ones (Gai pushing back Juubidara).



am not doubting gai asa kujaku cant kill. trust me i know it can. 

new or old feats gai cannot and has never blown a hole in anyone. his Asa K would kill due to the heat which was enough to evaporate kisame lake 

thats a feat u have mentioned time and time again. so dont act like u dont like using old feats

What i am however saying is gai regular punch in any gated form bar 8th wont be doing anymore than what han did to naruto and thats at the very best. 

However AS could harm naruto. his gated special techniques are special because they are well above his regular attacks in said gated form


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## Veracity (Mar 20, 2015)

LostSelf said:


> But his clothes began to dissolve once Gai used Night Gai. When he was using the red gate, he wasn't. If you see his skin is perfect. Also, the aura comes from his body, i mean, from his skin, therefore, to vaporize his jacket, it should've vaporized his black suit.
> 
> I thought about the side effects, however, if he was in such a bad condition, that, he needed to take rests, and to grab rocks to sustain himself, instead of keep hitting Madara without giving him a chance to run or regenerate, then he wouldn't be able to use Night Gai. Juubito busted Susano'o crashing it, Gai probably wasn't hit by something like that. But yeah, he could've been hit like Minato was hit or by blunt force ninjutsu without such force to bust Susano'o, Either way, it would still be a pretty good feat, because he was hitting somebody whose body was destroying from the inside with every second.
> 
> I don't know how he might've been hit, honestly. However, he should've, even if by Madara's normal hits, or anything, or even once.



Okay you gotta point about the aura, but the jacket could have easily been removed from merely speed. You gotta remember he was literally creating wind tornadoes from outright speed: 2

I'm far more inclined to believe the friction of his speed tore his jacket off rather a technique. We both don't know a single technique that Madara has that has the power to only tear Gais jacket and still leave him in fighting condition. I mean it just doesn't make sense at all, limbo is blunt force damage, so it wouldn't remove Gais jacket unless you assume his limbo clone head locked Gai and physically removed it.

That's not how the red aura gate works though at all. The description of the gates would mean that Gai couldn't use any techniques at all after opening the 8th gate right after the 7th. Opening the Red Aura Gate seems to create some type of god tier body. If it was still Gais regular resilience and Durabilty, Gai would be able to fire over 10 AT's without exhausting himself considering the massive gap between EE|Night Moth and AT/MP. So no.. Gais exhaustion has little to do with his ability to execute NM, seeing as it's his last move anyway. + how do we know Gais exhaustion wasn't a product of the the 8th gate instead of an injury inflicted by Madara. The former is much more likely seeing seeing as the latter would put base Gais durabilty at a level above the 3rd Raikage's , which is comical.

Ummm Base Madara is physically stronger than base Obito AND absorbed a greater part of the JUUBI than Juubito. Juubito was able to move foward and break clean through Ribcage Sussano with his bare hands.  A hit from Juubidara should reduce both MINATO and Gai into nothing, but then again I don't think Kishi knows what he's doing most of the time.


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

juudara did not hit 8th gate gai once
he attempted a taijutsu battle using only omyoton to defend himself and was trolled

juudara did not have the physical speed to touch gai once

if he did gai would have died.


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## sabre320 (Mar 20, 2015)

basic tailed shared shrouds from naruto tanked tenpenchi...kcm cloak is far superior nothing below hirudara is truly dangerous to naruto and naruto is not going to stand there and let gai barrage him with punches...naruto can use up to 6 giant chakra arms with massive range to grab gai or keep distance and can form gargantuan rasengan larger then bijuu .....naruto is never engaging gai in taijutsu but absolutely gigantic rasengans renders taijutsu moot not to mention he can outlast gai quite easily..


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## Icegaze (Mar 20, 2015)

gotta agree with sabre on this. naruto can easily become anti CQC 
just for the lolz
lets not forget his ability to control FRS
which if it hits gai..well there would be no gai left


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 20, 2015)

The KCM Cloak durability is comical. He fucked up his leg by getting it caught in the ground and he was in pain when the V2 Jins were striking him. 

Here we have him falling onto Gyuki, and receiving wounds as a result [1] while also being forced out of KCM, and here we have Naruto visibly being burned from  Roshi passing by his face [2], and with such a small injury unable to avoid Yugito's fire spit as Killer Bee saves him as he closes his eyes in pain. 

7th Gated Gai would break and torch this kid.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 20, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> basic tailed shared shrouds from naruto tanked tenpenchi...kcm cloak is far superior nothing below hirudara is truly dangerous to naruto and naruto is not going to stand there and let gai barrage him with punches...naruto can use up to 6 giant chakra arms with massive range to grab gai or keep distance and can form gargantuan rasengan larger then bijuu .....naruto is never engaging gai in taijutsu but absolutely gigantic rasengans renders taijutsu moot not to mention he can outlast gai quite easily..



 V1 Cloak never helped tank Tenpechi and furthermore, Naruto was bleeding afterwards which indicates his KCM Cloak couldn't handle the attack.

 And as I said before, Obito could deal hits to KCM Naruto that caused him to feel pain. His durability is not going to help him survive a hit from 7th Gate Gai, especially if we consider Gai's extremely high velocity.

 @Icegaze



 Morning Peacock counters FRS.


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## ARGUS (Mar 20, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> The KCM Cloak durability is comical. He fucked up his leg by getting it caught in the ground and he was in pain when the V2 Jins were striking him.
> 
> Here we have him falling onto Gyuki, and receiving wounds as a result [1] while also being forced out of KCM, and here we have Naruto visibly being burned from  Roshi passing by his face [2], and with such a small injury unable to avoid Yugito's fire spit as Killer Bee saves him as he closes his eyes in pain.
> 
> 7th Gated Gai would break and torch this kid.



Lel this shits on the whole durability argument that most of fanboys/haters have,


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## Icegaze (Mar 21, 2015)

@NarutoX28 true MP would counter it 
who do u think can keep it up longer? naruto with his FRS or gai with MP??


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## Nikushimi (Mar 21, 2015)

naturo gonna do nothin he gonna die

gai pwns him w/ a kick moving @ 300km/h


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## Nikushimi (Mar 21, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> The KCM Cloak durability is comical. He fucked up his leg by getting it caught in the ground and he was in pain when the V2 Jins were striking him.
> 
> Here we have him falling onto Gyuki, and receiving wounds as a result [1] while also being forced out of KCM, and here we have Naruto visibly being burned from  Roshi passing by his face [2], and with such a small injury unable to avoid Yugito's fire spit as Killer Bee saves him as he closes his eyes in pain.
> 
> 7th Gated Gai would break and torch this kid.



While all of that is true, he still did block the Raikage's punch and tanked a kick to the jaw from Han. And a clone of his didn't even poof when it no-sold three swords with one arm.

Kishimoto just got lazy and inconsistent as fuck after he realized his manga would never be Star Wars no matter how many ideas he stole.


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## Icegaze (Mar 21, 2015)

what i would like to know is what feats does gai have to say a regular gated kick or punch would do any harm to naruto. or even several

?

its odd how people invent feats 

now MP would work no doubt. same way FRS would be just as dangerous to gai.


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## Rocky (Mar 21, 2015)

Rasenshuriken is restricted.


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## Icegaze (Mar 21, 2015)

naruto still wins. 
rasengans will equally kill gai. FRS would have just left nothing behind


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## Trojan (Mar 21, 2015)

If this is 8th Gate Gai, then it's a tie. 
Anything less, Naruto wipes the floor with him.


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## sabre320 (Mar 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> V1 Cloak never helped tank Tenpechi and furthermore, Naruto was bleeding afterwards which indicates his KCM Cloak couldn't handle the attack.
> 
> And as I said before, Obito could deal hits to KCM Naruto that caused him to feel pain. His durability is not going to help him survive a hit from 7th Gate Gai, especially if we consider Gai's extremely high velocity.
> 
> ...



Here basic chkra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked juubi sized bakufu ranbo so morning peacock isnt doing shit...and how is morning peacock supposed to counter frs one of the most concentrated attack with the highest form of spatial manipulation..

here the basic chakra cloaks tanked yasaka magatama..
[2]

here basic chkra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked tenpenchi...
[2]
[2]

naruto used so much chakra protecting the alliance that his cloak dissipated..

he tanked hans steam release kick to the chin..remember steam release that allowed naruto to overpower kaguya?
so please enlighten me how is narutos durability in question?


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## sabre320 (Mar 21, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> The KCM Cloak durability is comical. He fucked up his leg by getting it caught in the ground and he was in pain when the V2 Jins were striking him.
> 
> Here we have him falling onto Gyuki, and receiving wounds as a result [1] while also being forced out of KCM, and here we have Naruto visibly being burned from  Roshi passing by his face [2], and with such a small injury unable to avoid Yugito's fire spit as Killer Bee saves him as he closes his eyes in pain.
> 
> 7th Gated Gai would break and torch this kid.



the only thing comical here is ur downplay and bias..

Here basic chakra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked juubi sized bakufu ranbo so morning peacock isnt doing shit...and how is morning peacock supposed to counter frs one of the most concentrated attack with the highest form of spatial manipulation..

here the basic chakra cloaks tanked yasaka magatama..
[2]

here basic chkra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked tenpenchi...
[2]
[2]

naruto used so much chakra protecting the alliance that his cloak dissipated..

he tanked hans steam release kick to the chin..remember steam release that allowed naruto to overpower kaguya?
so please enlighten me how is narutos durability in question? especialy when kcm narutos cloak is far superior ..


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 21, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Here basic chkra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked juubi sized bakufu ranbo so morning peacock isnt doing shit...and how is morning peacock supposed to counter frs one of the most concentrated attack with the highest form of spatial manipulation..



 If you're referring to the Katon, KCM Naruto never made physical contact with the flames. If he did, he would've been burned as shown here:

 [2]

 What hurts you more is that he didn't even make physical contact with his fist, yet that burn which doesn't even compare to Madara and Obito's Katon still burnt his face pretty badly and knocked him back to the point where Killer Bee had to catch him.



> here the basic chakra cloaks tanked yasaka magatama..
> [2]



 That's an impressive feat, however, BM Naruto gave those cloaks and can manipulate the amount of chakra he puts in in to each V1 Cloak. Given his reaction when Sakura and the crew were about to be hit, we can clearly tell he amped up the amount of chakra he was using. That's also clear as he actually used chakra in order for the Cloaks to defend themselves with V1 Tails.

 Here, we can actually see KCM Naruto suffered from fatigue, so he was boosting the amount of chakra the V1 Cloaks had to tank the damage.

 [2]



> here basic chkra cloaks shared by kcm naruto tanked tenpenchi...
> [2]
> [2]
> 
> naruto used so much chakra protecting the alliance that his cloak dissipated..



 [2]

 V1 Cloaks >>>> KCM Naruto's Cloak confirmed.

 You just proved my point. Naruto used up so much chakra that the Allliance managed to tank the blast while Naruto's KCM Cloak was easily penetrated and left him bleeding all over, clothing torn up, and clutched his right arm while he struggled to recover from the attack.

 [2]

 Naruto sure was in a lot of pain.

 So while Naruto can manipulate the strength of the V1 Cloaks, he cannot do so with his Kyuubi Cloak which is why we witness him getting bashed around by inferior attacks that DaVizWiz presented.



> he tanked hans steam release kick to the chin..remember steam release that allowed naruto to overpower kaguya?
> so please enlighten me how is narutos durability in question?



 Comparing RSM Naruto feats to a Base Jin feats?

 So many misconceptions here. He never tanked Hans's Steam Release Kick. He was literally pushed back by it so much that he was accelerating quickly and required Base Bee's tentacle to assist him, the same guy that can destroy multiple boulders with his Tentacles or can withstand V1 Raikage's blunt force. Despite Killer Bee's help, KCM Naruto still struggled to recover in which Killer Bee realized the situation was pretty bad which required him to bail Naruto out again.

 Pretty pathetic when you realize KCM Naruto struggled to fight against one Base Jin.


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## Veracity (Mar 21, 2015)

@NarutoX28
What? Jin enhanced lava style is far superior to any katon Obito or Madara could conjure and would literally shit on MP. Not only this but literally the panel after, Naruto is shown grabbing the Jin's lava encased fist, without it actually injuring him.

Are you forreal? There is no way a V1 cloak could be superior to KCM you know that right ? Him being in Bjuii-Mode is negated by the fact that he had to provide those cloaks for THOUSANDS OF SHINOBI. A Kcm cloak is literally just a more concentrated version of a V1 cloak. The cloak he provided is essentially the same thing he was using to fight Sasuke at VoTE in part one. It's inferior to 3k, 4k, 5k ETC, and it's definitely inferior to a KCM cloak.

Bruh . There's no misconception, what are you talking about ?

He CLEARLY tanked Hans kick, like it's literally on panel. And the fact that you not only brought up killer bee, but also provided his strength feats actually works against you strongly. Han kicked naruto in the face hard enough for his body to fly fast enough for the speed and weight to overwhelm someone as physically strong as killer bee. And the result was Naruto only grabbing his face. That would mean Naruto got kicked pretty fucking
hard. harder than anything 7th gated Gai can do.


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## sabre320 (Mar 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> If you're referring to the Katon, KCM Naruto never made physical contact with the flames. If he did, he would've been burned as shown here:
> 
> Link removed
> 
> ...



how in gods name did naruto not make physical contact with giant bakufu ranbo he was in the middle of it..

1 tailed chakra cloaks divided amongst thousands superior to kcm cloaks you even read what you write dude?? i mean kcm cloak is an advanced cloak and divided his chakra to distribute the cloaks how can u even think.....


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 21, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> how in gods name did naruto not make physical contact with giant bakufu ranbo he was in the middle of it..
> 
> 1 tailed chakra cloaks divided amongst thousands superior to kcm cloaks you even read what you write dude?? i mean kcm cloak is an advanced cloak and divided his chakra to distribute the cloaks how can u even think.....



 This is why no one takes you seriously.

 No, KCM Naruto did not make physical contact with Roshi's fist, he only took damage by the Chakra surrounding Roshi's Fist.

 KCM Naruto's Cloak was penetrated and damaged Naruto severely while the V1 Cloaks were not penetrated. You can argue that KCM Naruto was constantly amplifying the Cloaks with his own chakra which he was, but no amount of chakra would've helped keep up the Cloaks if the Cloaks themselves weren't strong enough to withstand the blast. 

 But I think I'm done here. It's clear you didn't even read my whole post.


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## sabre320 (Mar 21, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> This is why no one takes you seriously.
> 
> No, KCM Naruto did not make physical contact with Roshi's fist, he only took damage by the Chakra surrounding Roshi's Fist.
> 
> ...



dude i think you might be confused who isnt taken seriously...even if im not atleast i maintain some semblance of logic in my posts unlike you who claimed naruto did not make physical contact with katon larger then juubi while in its aoe....

my god the kcm cloak is a superior version of the basic cloak use some common sense for once naruto focused more on protecting the alliance and lethimself take the hit


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## Legendary Itachi (Mar 21, 2015)

Dafuq is this shit?

Of course Naruto can manipulate his own Kyubi cloak. How the fuck can he sync the Kyubi chakra with others if he himself can't even control it? And you don't go to tug-of-war with the Kyubi just to get a form weaker than some chakra leakage that even Part 1 Naruto can use. This's just pathetic.


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> any proof 7th gate gai has more physical strength than lee with the kyuubi boost? because he got no feats to suggest that or even DB implications. 7th gate gai is much much faster than FRS. like casually faster, not even a comparison. again bijuu cloak boost gave bee the strength to break half of the battle area he was fighting against taka.
> 
> in V2 he blew kisame chest and created a hole in samehada. clearly bijuu cloak gives a ridiculous strength boost. greater than what 7th gate showed. thats all.
> 
> ...



Here is the thing. You agree Gai is faster than Lee in Kyuubi Mode (base) in the 7th Gate. Easily. Now the only thing you want me to do is prove that Gai is stronger than a Kyuubi shrouded Naruto. Easy again.

Gai was able to trip the Gedomazou [1][2]. That's my first feat, and one I bet you can't top with Naruto. Here is another one, Gai being able to break the Coral off of Naruto's back, when the latter couldn't do it himself [3]. Notice the chakra arm trying to pull it off and crush it. So not only does Gai have better strength feat than Naruto, and better speed than Lee, he can also perform the same kick as Lee, in the same *style* (he is his sensei after all). 

Here Naruto is having trouble blocking the Gunbai [4], while Gai seems to have no trouble with it [5]. In fact in the databook it has a picture of Gai slamming his Nunchuku on Obito's Gunbai, and Kishimoto noting that he "isn't only good at Taijutsu, he can crush rocks to dust with that blow". Kishimoto pointing that particular scene out and specifically pointing out Gai's strength, is illustrating that Gai would be able to deal massive damage to an opponent in base, even to someone like Obito. Who might I add, would rather phase than take a head shot from Gai's hit and shrug it off to steal Naruto [6]. I do want to say though, Kishimoto *litters* Gai's databook with how strong Gai is, from turning rock to dust to shattering boulders, oh here is another strength feat in base [7][8].

*Obito*: "_What destructive power..._" - an evil villain bent on destroying the world, and he still comments on Gai's strength out loud.

I've also provided quite a few times, probably 5 times, of Gai pushing back Juubidara, and why that is a significant strength feat as well. In the end, I don't believe it's wrong to use what strength feats Naruto gains from the Kyuubi chakra and align it with what Lee gains. Considering the examples I have shown you is Naruto with the perfect Kyuubi shroud, and Lee with just a one-tail shroud.

Gai uppercutting Kisame is a completely different style of kicking than Lee. One is Gai is floating in mid-air and driving his foot right underneath Kisame to send him flying upwards intentionally. Lee's kick is using the entire momentum of his body in conjunction with his kick to slice Madara horizontally. Not only that but Kisame has also proven he is massively durable. However the difference between slicing someone and just knocking them, has more to do with the technique of the kick, how it is executed.​


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## Icegaze (Mar 22, 2015)

Jad said:


> Here is the thing. You agree Gai is faster than Lee in Kyuubi Mode (base) in the 7th Gate. Easily. Now the only thing you want me to do is prove that Gai is stronger than a Kyuubi shrouded Naruto. Easy again.​




Actually u cant prove it. gai never had the chance to punch or kick someone in 7th gate with the intention to kill him. 


> Gai was able to trip the Gedomazou [1][2]. That's my first feat, and one I bet you can't top with Naruto. Here is another one, Gai being able to break the Coral off of Naruto's back, when the latter couldn't do it himself [3]. Notice the chakra arm trying to pull it off and crush it. So not only does Gai have better strength feat than Naruto, and better speed than Lee, he can also perform the same kick as Lee, in the same *style* (he is his sensei after all).



And chouji was able to punch it and it moved backwards. the same chouji punched asuma and all that did was send asuma flying. 
I understand all your saying but 7th gate gai kick arent going to be breaking naruto bones at all. 
not when KN1 shroud is slapping away YM which btw breach through onoki golem and gaara sand mom



> Here Naruto is having trouble blocking the Gunbai [4], while Gai seems to have no trouble with it [5]. In fact in the databook it has a picture of Gai slamming his Nunchuku on Obito's Gunbai, and Kishimoto noting that he "isn't only good at Taijutsu, he can crush rocks to dust with that blow". Kishimoto pointing that particular scene out and specifically pointing out Gai's strength, is illustrating that Gai would be able to deal massive damage to an opponent in base, even to someone like Obito. Who might I add, would rather phase than take a head shot from Gai's hit and shrug it off to steal Naruto [6]. I do want to say though, Kishimoto *litters* Gai's databook with how strong Gai is, from turning rock to dust to shattering boulders, oh here is another strength feat in base [7][8].



i dont doubt gai is physically strongr than naruto why wouldnt he be. All i am saying is 7th gate gai would be unable to deal deathly damage with just his punches and kicks he needs his gated attacks. Also considering DB4 calls han strength unrivaled and naruto took a kick to the face, it stands to reason that gai kick would be just that a kick. Unless kishi implied gai to be stronger than han . 


> *Obito*: "_What destructive power..._" - an evil villain bent on destroying the world, and he still comments on Gai's strength out loud.



genin sasuke thrown into rocks would have the same effect. breaking boulders really isnt impressive. unless u bnelive its more impressive than punch off an iron gate bigger than those boulders or any of SM naruto feats. strength wise, gai really hasnt been implied to be that strong. considering base gai felt kisame strength was inhuman and kisame physically dominated him 



> I've also provided quite a few times, probably 5 times, of Gai pushing back Juubidara, and why that is a significant strength feat as well. In the end, I don't believe it's wrong to use what strength feats Naruto gains from the Kyuubi chakra and align it with what Lee gains. Considering the examples I have shown you is Naruto with the perfect Kyuubi shroud, and Lee with just a one-tail shroud.



hows juudara choosing to jump backwards gai strength feat??? is killerbee using his 7 sword style and havin itachi jump back a strength feat of bee? gai attacked juudara countered when he was ready to. unless again u want to go against the manga and say hirudora isnt his fastest 7th gate attack 



> Gai uppercutting Kisame is a completely different style of kicking than Lee. One is Gai is floating in mid-air and driving his foot right underneath Kisame to send him flying upwards intentionally. Lee's kick is using the entire momentum of his body in conjunction with his kick to slice Madara horizontally. Not only that but Kisame has also proven he is massively durable. However the difference between slicing someone and just knocking them, has more to do with the technique of the kick, how it is executed.


[/QUOTE]

so despite the panels basically looking the same, ur excuse is the style of kick turned bisceting someone than just getting some dust underneath their chin

Jad gai hasnt been DB stated or manga implied to be physically strong and recognized as the tops in strength. also note all this means nothing when his durability isnt increased by using gates. which means a rasengan or any rasengan can still put him down 

durability wise naruto is superior, unless u think gai can tank YM with no damage. he can block them pretty sure but can he stand there and tank them?
also kisame punched gai and had him coughing blood. kisame isnt even mentioned as havin unrivalved strength


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2015)

Before I think about continuing this discussion or anything. I just want to point out, that up until now, I have only been debating that Gai in the 7th Gate can kick people of _Madara's durability_ in half, the same way Lee did. Hence I never bothered discussing Naruto's durability in this thread.



> unless again u want to go against the manga and say hirudora isnt his fastest 7th gate attack



Where did it state Hirudora is his fastest punch?


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## Icegaze (Mar 22, 2015)

Jad am baffled u dont know hirudora is 7th gate gai fastest punch. like am pissed off actually
what kind of fan are u 

when he used it against kisame, he said this punch is faster than any other punch. 

read chapter 507. i cant believe u. Am angry with u 

I still disagree about gai being able to kick anyone in half. since u know he never did  do it


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## Jad (Mar 22, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> I still disagree about gai being able to kick anyone in half. since u know he never did  do it



That's true, but Lee doing it in a form I consider much lesser than 7th Gate, as per my evidence, should mean Gai can. It's weird to think you agree with both my points on speed and strength, but not on whether he can cut someone in half. I get that not showing something in the manga is a big determent to my argument based on your view, but aren't all our Battledome arguments about what makes sense, based on evidence collection?


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## Icegaze (Mar 22, 2015)

they are 
i just think its kishi inconsistency that allowed lee to do what he did really 

if all it took was gai in 7th gate to split a person in half u know his special gated techniques would loose purpose right 

its that why people like Ei dont really have special techniques per say. imagine Ei using ninjutsu when all it takes is him punching a person to kill most ninja 

I thnk gai taijutsu is about range and special effects Vs power. which is why i dont think kishi was very consistent there. it makes no sense for lee to have been able to do that when gai a much much better version of lee didnt remove kisame head. considering he had no reason at that point to keep him alive


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 23, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Dafuq is this shit?
> 
> Of course Naruto can manipulate his own Kyubi cloak. How the fuck can he sync the Kyubi chakra with others if he himself can't even control it? And you don't go to tug-of-war with the Kyubi just to get a form weaker than some chakra leakage that even Part 1 Naruto can use. This's just pathetic.



 You clearly misinterpreted what I stated.

 Where did I state V1 Cloaks >>>> KCM Cloak? You'd have to be desperate in order to try to make me look like shit.

 V1 Cloaks are a thicker substance of chakra. While KCM Naruto's is more concentrated, it's clearly rather close to the surface of his skin which makes him resisting attacks such as Madara and Obito's Massive Katon. This is clear when Roshi didn't even make physical contact and still burned his skin which means a thicker substance of chakra would be more viable for that situation. 

 Hell, Killer Bee was implied by KCM Naruto be vulnerable to Amaterasu despite having V1 Cloaks and V2 Mode which can be attributed to also having a rather thin V1 Cloak 

 Since it looks like the Susano'o weapon was coated in said orb and lit on fire.

 As you can see, it's rather thin and it literally doesn't surround his whole body in a thick aura and instead is a rather thin aura of chakra that only takes the shape of his body.

 Since it looks like the Susano'o weapon was coated in said orb and lit on fire.

 Also thinner in substance.

 Basic Chakra leakage from Part 1 my ass.

 Since it looks like the Susano'o weapon was coated in said orb and lit on fire.

 Yeah, that's a thin veil of chakra. That doesn't compare to what  KCM Naruto's who's proficient in linking chakra (even surpassing Kushina and Minato) can do in terms of Chakra Leakage.

 We also have many feats that suggest that KCM Naruto can't handle blunt forces very well as DaVizWiz presented. KCM Naruto even commented on how heavy V1 Raikage's hits felt like despite blocking his strikes. I can't comprehend why he'd be able to block a Taijutsu Expert's strikes such as 7th Gate Gai's, especially one who moves at much higher speeds than what V1 Raikage can move at unless you can actually justify that V1 Raikage is faster than 7th Gate Gai which you can't.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

naruto cloak would give him enough durability to tank gai hits 
worse cqc is a bad idea against a KB fanatic who cant stop using all sorts of rasengans


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## sabre320 (Mar 24, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> You clearly misinterpreted what I stated.
> 
> Where did I state V1 Cloaks >>>> KCM Cloak? You'd have to be desperate in order to try to make me look like shit.
> 
> ...



 never change bro


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## Sferr (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Jad am baffled u dont know hirudora is 7th gate gai fastest punch. like am pissed off actually
> what kind of fan are u
> 
> when he used it against kisame, he said this punch is faster than any other punch.
> ...



Hirudora is not a punch, it's just created by the fastest punch. Nowhere is it said that Hirudora is Gai's fastest attack. And it can't be logically, it traveled with same speed as Kisame's Daikodan.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

hirudora is a punch 
read chapter 507. gai calls it his fastest punch 
tired of dumb people not knowing what they are even arguing. hirudora is a punch his fastest at that. he calls it faster than any other punch. 

logically in a manga 

u know what fuck it!!! imma find the scan for ur dumbass. look at it really really closesly and dont reply till u can redraw what uve seen. 

after

top right scan. seriously would actually neg u for it. cant be havin dumbness


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## Sferr (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> hirudora is a punch
> read chapter 507. gai calls it his fastest punch
> tired of dumb people not knowing what they are even arguing. hirudora is a punch his fastest at that. he calls it faster than any other punch.
> 
> ...



Lol, you are amusing. Use your common sense at least a bit, to understand what Gai is talking about. It's not that hard. 

Here is a scan:
after

Is it a punch that is moving towards Kisame in the top frame? Is it a punch that is exploding in Kisame's face in the bottom left frame?


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

an idiot is an idiot 
he calls it fastest punch. hardly an assumption 
do look at the scan i provided 

the denial is strong in u. its a punch faster than any other 

so what is it. a kick a head butt? a fart?  run bang your head on a wall, hope that stirs things up in that empty head

apparently that punch is slower than others despite being the only punch to actually create shockwaves. suuuure thing. next thing ull tell me is 6th gate gai regular attacks are faster than Asa kujaku which moves his hands so quick they catch fire.


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## Sferr (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> an idiot is an idiot
> he calls it fastest punch. hardly an assumption
> do look at the scan i provided
> 
> ...



Are you really serious?  

Again, what flew to Kisame and exploded into his face? A punch? 

Gai says in your own provided scan that Gai's fastest punch focuses air pressure in the single point which later explodes. How fast this focused point flies to the enemy or how fast it explodes Gai says nothing about.(but it did move towards Kisame almost at the same speed as Daikodan moved towards Gai) And that's the point of Hirudora - to create an air pressure bomb by punching the air as fast as you can. Juudara didn't prevent Hirudora to start forming, he hit the already forming tiger that later even exploded  :after
That means that air pressure was already focusing at one point and that in turn means that Gai successfully punched the air with his fastest punch and that Juudara did not intercept this punch.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

Sferr said:


> Are you really serious?
> 
> Again, what flew to Kisame and exploded into his face? A punch?
> 
> ...




hirudora is his fastest punch. he says so on panel. the rest is jargon for no reason. 

the punch which creates the air called hirudora. the air pressure moves towards the enemy and kills said enemy. that punch is faster than anything else gai has in his arsenal

like i said jargon. dont attempt to make the air pressure seem slow. considering it caught madara mid swing. 

soon enough ull change ur mind and hype it. its sad how u can deny something written on panel using BS semantics.

if am to understand ur cop out. ur saying the super fast punch is called hirudora and cant be intercepted. ok 

now the air pressure which is generated from a super fast punch how does that air pressure travelling somehow become slow ?? or slow enough that u think gai other attacks are faster?? 

why go on an exchange with madara then proceed to point blank use a slower attack?? what ur saying is the equivalent of minato using hirashin then performing a 44 seal jutsu and expecting it to land. thats dumb. gai used hirudora there because everything else was easily handled. u dont go from an exchange with an enemy stronger than urself to a slower attack when ur apparent faster ones are being blocked. 

any punch which can generate air pressure is faster than anything else. now that airpressure travelling would obviously still retain said speed. unless ur saying 8th gate gai punches are faster than the evening elephant air vaccuum that hits u


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## Sferr (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> hirudora is his fastest punch. he says so on panel. the rest is jargon for no reason.


Sure, the punch with which he creates the air bomb is his fastest.


Icegaze said:


> the punch which creates the air called hirudora. the air pressure moves towards the enemy and kills said enemy. that punch is faster than anything else gai has in his arsenal
> 
> like i said jargon. dont attempt to make the air pressure seem slow. considering it caught madara mid swing.


So, you are saying that Gai calls a huge air pressure bomb 'a punch'. Lol. I also never said the pressure bomb is slow. But it's slower than the actual punch he creates it with, that's for sure.


Icegaze said:


> soon enough ull change ur mind and hype it. *its sad how u can deny something written on panel using BS semantics.*


It's funny to read that, considering your entire argument is based on the fact that Gai, apparently, called a pressure bomb 'a punch'. You don't use BS semantics, not at all. 



Icegaze said:


> now the air pressure which is generated from a super fast punch how does that air pressure travelling somehow become slow ?? or slow enough that u think gai other attacks are faster??


It did move at the same speed as Daikodan and Kisame perfectly saw it approaching. Obviously it slower than his actual punches. Unless you are claiming that Kisame has Juubi-level reflexes.


Icegaze said:


> *why go on an exchange with madara then proceed to point blank use a slower attack?? *what ur saying is the equivalent of minato using hirashin then performing a 44 seal jutsu and expecting it to land. thats dumb. gai used hirudora there because everything else was easily handled. u dont go from an exchange with an enemy stronger than urself to a slower attack when ur apparent faster ones are being blocked.


That's because Hirudora is his strongest attack, duh.


Icegaze said:


> any punch which can generate air pressure is faster than anything else. now that airpressure travelling would obviously still retain said speed. unless ur saying 8th gate gai punches are faster than the evening elephant air vaccuum that hits u


It would obviously not retain it's speed. And yes, 8th Gate Gai's punches are obviously faster than EE. A lot of energy that is generated from the punch's speed is spent on forming Hirudora/EE. Thus, the actual Hirudora and EE will obviously  be slower. That's common sense.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

Sferr said:


> Sure, the punch with which he creates the air bomb is his fastest.
> 
> So, you are saying that Gai calls a huge air pressure bomb 'a punch'. Lol. I also never said the pressure bomb is slow. But it's slower than the actual punch he creates it with, that's for sure.



gai also calls asa kujaku a bunch of punches. which create enough fire to evaporate a tidal wave. does that suddenly not make asa kujaku a bunch of punches. or does kishi draw gai arms moving for the lolz. maybe its a spirit attack 



> It's funny to read that, considering your entire argument is based on the fact that Gai, apparently, called a pressure bomb 'a punch'. You don't use BS semantics, not at all.



yes gai calls the huge air bomb a punch. considering what generates said air bomb is his punch. genius!!! lol!!! so the air bomb created from that punch which blitz ET madara is slow. ok i get u



> It did move at the same speed as Daikodan and Kisame perfectly saw it approaching. Obviously it slower than his actual punches. Unless you are claiming that Kisame has Juubi-level reflexes.




it moved much faster than daikodan you absolute idiot. it ran through the length of daikodan and exploded in kisame face before dakidoan could get to gai despite both jutsu being used at the same time. 



> That's because Hirudora is his strongest attack, duh.



because its his fastest. the speed of the attack makes it that strong. or u think air generated from a super fast punch would be super slow?? 



> It would obviously not retain it's speed. And yes, 8th Gate Gai's punches are obviously faster than EE. A lot of energy that is generated from the punch's speed is spent on forming Hirudora/EE. Thus, the actual Hirudora and EE will obviously  be slower. That's common sense.



so it doesnt retain the speed of his hits. why could 5 air blasts hit juudara ?? . yet juudara could react to gai in time to protect himself which forced kakashi to use kamui. or did gai slow down out of mercy for juudara since they have some unknown friendship kishi didnt care to elaborate on 

in the manga written by kishi hirudora is his fastest possible attack in 7th gate this was stated by gai himself. its entirely foolish of u to think a special technique which is used by 7th gate would be slower than his regular attacks. thats entirely laughable 

hard to take u seriously


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## Sferr (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> gai also calls asa kujaku a bunch of punches. which create enough fire to evaporate a tidal wave. does that suddenly not make asa kujaku a bunch of punches. or does kishi draw gai arms moving for the lolz. maybe its a spirit attack


Wtf are you even talking about? There are punches, there are fireballs that these punches create. What do you disagree with here?




Icegaze said:


> yes gai calls the huge air bomb a punch. considering what generates said air bomb is his punch. genius!!! lol!!! so the air bomb created from that punch which blitz ET madara is slow. ok i get u


Gai says that his fastest punch creates an air bomb. He never mentions the speed of the air bomb. That's it. It's very simple.




Icegaze said:


> it moved much faster than daikodan you absolute idiot. it ran through the length of daikodan and exploded in kisame face before dakidoan could get to gai despite both jutsu being used at the same time.


Hirudora was faster, sure, but it wasn't extremely fast considering that Kisame was analyzing it's behavior while it was moving towards him. 



Icegaze said:


> because its his fastest. the speed of the attack makes it that strong. or u think air generated from a super fast punch would be super slow??


Lol, I don't even. It's an air pressure bomb. What the hell does it's speed has to do with how hard it explodes? What does bijuudama's speed has to do with how hard it explodes? What does C3's speed has to do with how hard it explodes? Hirudora is not powerful because of it's speed, it's powerful because it's a bomb.




Icegaze said:


> so it doesnt retain the speed of his hits. why could 5 air blasts hit juudara ?? .


Because they were still fast enough? 


Icegaze said:


> yet juudara could react to gai in time to protect himself which forced kakashi to use kamui. or did gai slow down out of mercy for juudara since they have some unknown friendship kishi didnt care to elaborate on


Juudara reacted to a couple of EE's as well. And?


Icegaze said:


> in the manga written by kishi hirudora is his fastest possible attack in 7th gate this was stated by gai himself. its entirely foolish of u to think a special technique which is used by 7th gate would be slower than his regular attacks. thats entirely laughable


I'm still waiting for you to post a scan, where Gai says that Hirudora is his fastest attack.


Icegaze said:


> hard to take u seriously


I would say this about you.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

Sferr said:


> Wtf are you even talking about? There are punches, there are fireballs that these punches create. What do you disagree with here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok hirudora isnt a punch. despite gai saying so. you win. he simply claimed it was a punch for the lolz. the author himself who wrote that doesnt know what he is talking about 
yes steffr..you know whats best. 

arguing with something blatantly stated on panel. am exhausted

 i already posted the scan which you ignored u clown. go read chapter 507....seriously i cba to post a scan which u are going to disregard again 
hirudora is his fastest attack in 7th gate quite obviously. as again go back to my posts i already provided that.

so again his fastest punch creates air pressure but the air pressure itself looses so much speed that you are willing to try claim for no apparent reason that the air blast is slower than gai actual punch. seriously!!! 

as for kisame thinking about what was happening therefore u claiming the attack is slow. 
kakashi thinking about if itachi tskuyomi was real or not and having about 4-5 panels of conversation time. does that now make tskuyomi slow??
kisame also had the time to think about how samehada cant absorb bee V2 shroud i guess that means bee was moving very slow
worse oh and u gonna love this one...gaara had the time to say gai movement in inhuman and minato had time to comment on gai usage of 7th gate. maybe gai wasnt moving that fast then. 

just maybe daikodan isnt as slow as u want it to be. again that doesnt even remotely contradict the fact that the air pressure shit blitz madara casually. but hey its slow because kisame thought about why his daikodan didnt absorb it sure thing buddy 

just go on arguing with the author of the manga. who calls hirudora which is obviously the complete attack air pressure included (otherwise would be a short range punch) his fastest attack sure!!!

gai wastes time firing a slow moving air pressure blast.


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## SSMG (Mar 24, 2015)

Guy wins. Base guy is in kcm tier in speed and strength so sixth gate eats naruto alive.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

agreed SSMG
and 6th gate gai and kakashi are the same in speed 
therefore making war arc base gai faster than his 6th gate version 
completely logical


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## SSMG (Mar 24, 2015)

Dude I've already explained to you months ago why guy is faster than kakashi. Guess your memory isn't the best.

But I'll explain real quick for you once more. 

Guy traveled further than kakashi while in sixth from the same starting point therefore guy is faster then him. Simple logic bro.


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## Icegaze (Mar 24, 2015)

yes i completely disagree they were at the same starting point. u reallu going to start squinting at panels to say gai covered half a meter more? really 

so 6th gate gai is marginally faster than kakashi yet base gai exceeds naruto (apparent full speed) though naruto never seemed to refer to obito being abel to react so easily to his speed sure thing 

ur logic is flawed from sun up to sun down 

this guy does this in this one panel. therefore he is faster than all. kmt...

u simply would never be able to prove that KCm naruto was moving at full speed in what kakashi said needs to be a coordinated attack. thats entirely dumb


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## Arles Celes (Mar 24, 2015)

Guy making Juubi Madara go "!" and make him step back for a bit is most impressive but Naruto thanks to SM and KCM got greater versatility and he can keep KCM activated non stop for like hours while Guy cannot keep his Gates activated for long as the mess up his muscles.

Nothing short of Hirudora can hurt neither KCM nor SM so if Kisame could survive one hit then most likely Naruto can do so too. And we never saw Guy spamming his higher tier jutsus...

So I see Naruto winning but not necessarily with ease.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 24, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> never change bro



 All right.

 It's obvious that you can't refute my points, so you laugh it off.

 I'll accept your concession though.


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## SSMG (Mar 24, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> yes i completely disagree they were at the same starting point. u reallu going to start squinting at panels to say gai covered half a meter more? really
> 
> so 6th gate gai is marginally faster than kakashi yet base gai exceeds naruto (apparent full speed) though naruto never seemed to refer to obito being abel to react so easily to his speed sure thing
> 
> ...




Half a meter? More like five or ten meters away at mim.

And speed =distance/time ....And guy got to the same distance as naruto did in less time and therefore is faster than him. It was his full speed or else there's be no point in naruto being helpless against obitos touch... He'd simply use his full speed and get away. But he didnt.. He needed to be saved by Guy. Everything points to that being naruto full speed. And this was before kakashis coordinated attack plan BTW.


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## Jad (Mar 25, 2015)

Icegaze, your logic is at fault. When Gai and Kakashi went to engange the Bijuu's, they weren't standing still.

They were pretty much on Gai and Kakashi's door steps before Gai and Kakashi needed to run 'that far'. The Bijuu's were in transit, meaning it isn't a case of "Kakashi got to the same location as Gai at the same speed" rather, the Bijuu's got to them very fast that Gai and Kakashi only took a few steps forward.

Look at the scan. Those Bijuu's are very fast, even Bee and Naruto commented on their speeds (since they were getting manhandled by them as well).

Gai and Kakashi being on the same panel the moment they opened their techniques does not equate to Gai and Kakashi being in the same speed tier. The panel LITERALLY shows that they opened their techniques at the same time  - it's just a snap shot, like a photography taking a picture at the RIGHT time. Plus evidence to the contrary, we already know base Gai's speed quite well.


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## Icegaze (Mar 25, 2015)

Jad said:


> Icegaze, your logic is at fault. When Gai and Kakashi went to engange the Bijuu's, they weren't standing still.



not my logic SMMG logic. i know gai is faster big whoop



> They were pretty much on Gai and Kakashi's door steps before Gai and Kakashi needed to run 'that far'. The Bijuu's were in transit, meaning it isn't a case of "Kakashi got to the same location as Gai at the same speed" rather, the Bijuu's got to them very fast that Gai and Kakashi only took a few steps forward.



ok good the bijuu are quick. am not one to care that much. was just teasing SSMG using 1 panel to determine everything 



> Look at the scan. Those Bijuu's are very fast, even Bee and Naruto commented on their speeds (since they were getting manhandled by them as well).



yes naruto said they are fast. but gai didnt. so are u then implying gai is therefore faster. naruto also said sandaime raikage was fast 



> Gai and Kakashi being on the same panel the moment they opened their techniques does not equate to Gai and Kakashi being in the same speed tier. The panel LITERALLY shows that they opened their techniques at the same time  - it's just a snap shot, like a photography taking a picture at the RIGHT time. Plus evidence to the contrary, we already know base Gai's speed quite well.



i know they arent and tbh i dont really care. abotu that much. again was teasing a panel+feat troll 

i mean do u honestly believe for example base gai is faster than KCM naruto??

if so why on earth wasnt 6th gate gai who should be much faster shit blitzing the jinchurikis

SMMG logic was gai got to KCM naruto therefore he is faster. which is fucking stupid. thats all i was teasing


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

Who's this SMMG character? 

When you purpose an instance from the manga with no one prior to you in the discussion making mention of said instance that is therefore your argument or as you like to say it's your logic.. And then you turn around and say that isn't your logic. But of course youre wrong here as well...You brought it up its entirely on you ice. 

If your gunna tease though you may want to make sure your assertion is correct.. Which it wasn't and as such only makes you look worse than you already do.

Base guy is faster than kcm naruto.
And as for your logic 6G Guy was shown to be faster than kakashi.

Try again chap.


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## Icegaze (Mar 25, 2015)

so then kakashi is faster than KCm naruto??? thats your logic. unless then you are saying base gai is faster than his 6th gate version 
which i why u deserve to be teased


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

So to you sixth gate guy being faster than kakashi equates to kakashi being faster than kcm because base guy is.. 

That's not logically sound.

Try again.


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## Icegaze (Mar 25, 2015)

are u actually stupid?
so what u are syaing is 6th gate gai is not much faster than his base self?

read the DB buddy. his power and speed have been boosted several times by 6th gate

so unless kakashi is much faster than KCM naruto he shouldnt even be remotely as fast as 6th gate gai. dont be dense


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

The irony.

I never once said that at all.

Read the manga icey. 

And guess what? Kakashi was not close to guys speed there seeing as Guy was further from the shot and in the air to boot which makes him much faster thankakashis speed.

But you're logic is they were shown at the same starting point so theyre about the same speed. So if me and Hussain bolt had a race wed be roughly the same speed according to your logic.. I mean wed start at the same spot so we must be right?

Try again icey.


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## Icegaze (Mar 25, 2015)

so what logic are u using to determine base gai is as fast as KCM naruto 

do explain it slowly this time. hope u notice how stupid u are about to sound.

also kishi disagrees with you. base gai isnt faster than EI or naruto. otherwise the very clear statement i am the fastest man alive would not have been made. 

as to using panels as everything while ignoring character statements, do note how much faster shikamaru is than hidan based on the blood on spike feat. 

why the struggle to remove his head then? i mean he is that much faster right


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> so what logic are u using to determine base gai is as fast as KCM naruto
> 
> do explain it slowly this time. hope u notice how stupid u are about to sound.
> 
> ...



I use math. Speed=distance /time.. Ive told you this many times.

What you base your opinions is gut feeling.. Empirical evidence> your gut icey.

Really so characters can never be wrong in making a statement? So I guess naruto wasn't faster than ei eh.

And high end feats overrule low end feats. Shikamaru didnt use his high end level of speed prior to the blood switch against hidan. But if we go by low end showings then shika is incapable of doing the blood feat.. Which he most certainly did do so that's why we go by high end.

Try again chap.


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## Icegaze (Mar 25, 2015)

you use math in a manga??? jesus u got time. why on earth are u doing that, then having the confidence to say u do that. thats a shame

gut feeling =/= kishi writting something down for me to read. 

character can be if kishi wants them to be. but then why highlight somethign for it to be wrong. thats just dumb!!

gai says this is my fastest punch yet somehow u think its not. so u saying gai doesn tknow he own jutsu?

a character makes a statement about themselves its obviously true. its like me telling you am black and you disagreeing with me

naruto wasnt you dumbass!! avoiding EI is what established him as being the second person to avoid his punch. do note all ei said was you are the second to avoid me. not omg!! you are impossibly faster than me etc

high end feats over rule low end feats since when?? is this some shit you came up with. 

imma keep u on ignore list, you sound insane. does math on naruto then he talking about high end and low end feats. what the actual fuck


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> you use math in a manga??? jesus u got time. why on earth are u doing that, then having the confidence to say u do that. thats a shame
> 
> gut feeling =/= kishi writting something down for me to read.
> 
> ...




I guess for you a basic one step solution equates to me having time. But the irony of that statement is a jest.. You're on this forum a lot more than I am.. Before the other day I hadn't logged in here in about a month or so whereas u where on the entire time... so you most definitely have a lot of spare time as well...

But you're using your gut for why guy isn't that fast.. Surely its not based on what kishi put in the manga or else you'd be agreeing with me.

You bring up guys fastest punch why? That has no bearing in this debate.  I know the only way you can even debate is to derail a topic I mean just look at this topic. But that statement was subjective and open to change.

Except when we know that characters statement was wrong. Because eis statement was subjective and open to change.. Your example of your skin colour is not subjective nor can it change( inb4 mj)

It doesn't matter if ei didn't say naruto was or wasn't faster or not.... He was shown to be faster since he completely dodged a punch that was an inch away from his face... Narutos body moved a greater distance to completely get out of the way which is a few feet atleast in the time it took eis fist to cross that inch or so it needed to connect with naruto.. This is based off basic math once again. 


Since the beginning of fictional debates ever. I did not make this up. Because as I said if we go by low end feats shika did not even do the blood feat..which he most certainly did. Or another example is superman can get KO'd by an exploding gas station yet he was conscious after taking much more forceful attacks. 

And I'll take that as a concession. Maybe if you knew how basic math worked and knew how debates functioned you wouldn't have your confusion.. These are very basics concepts but I guess they're still too complex to you eh.

Try again chap.


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## Veracity (Mar 25, 2015)

Couple things here.

When AY made the statement of him being superior to Gai in terms of movement speed, he was absolutely correct. The only reason any debaters neglect to believe a character statement is if it isn't supported, the character that made the statement spoke out his ass, the statement itself was an exaggeration, or the character that made the statement never really had enough manga knowledge to make the statement to begin with. Ay's statement is completely credible considering the manga supports this, and Ay had more than enough manga knowledge to make the statement regardless. People tend to forget that Ay made the statement after he became Supreme Commander of the entirety of the SA. He had vast amounts of knowledge on Gai, as he would have needed that knowledge to correctly and tactically organize the Shinobi divisions. Gai being " faster " than ay would have made his role in the war significant, and is information that was completely needed for the head of the army. 

Also the high end and low end thing is kinda dumb honestly. Lee's high end Kunai feats are > to 8th gated Gai's dashing speed. Minato's high end base reactions and FTG execution speed is > to 8 gated Gais speed. Gaara's high end sand movement speed is > to 8th gated Gais speed. Kakashis high end Kamui reaction and execution speed is > to 8th gated Gais speed. So....


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> Couple things here.
> 
> When AY made the statement of him being superior to Gai in terms of movement speed, he was absolutely correct. The only reason any debaters neglect to believe a character statement is if it isn't supported, the character that made the statement spoke out his ass, the statement itself was an exaggeration, or the character that made the statement never really had enough manga knowledge to make the statement to begin with. Ay's statement is completely credible considering the manga supports this, and Ay had more than enough manga knowledge to make the statement regardless. People tend to forget that Ay made the statement after he became Supreme Commander of the entirety of the SA. He had vast amounts of knowledge on Gai, as he would have needed that knowledge to correctly and tactically organize the Shinobi divisions. Gai being " faster " than ay would have made his role in the war significant, and is information that was completely needed for the head of the army.
> 
> Also the high end and low end thing is kinda dumb honestly. Lee's high end Kunai feats are > to 8th gated Gai's dashing speed. Minato's high end base reactions and FTG execution speed is > to 8 gated Gais speed. Gaara's high end sand movement speed is > to 8th gated Gais speed. Kakashis high end Kamui reaction and execution speed is > to 8th gated Gais speed. So....



Ei's statement isn't correct though and we know this to be a fact.. It was proven false the chapter he stated it in... 

But you yourself said why its not a reliable statement in regards to Guys speed. The statement itself is an exaggeration and or he didn't have enough manga knowledge to base his statement off of.

 You say Ei needed to know the speed of Guy for his role in the war. But that is not true. He only would need to know that guy is the best taijutsu user in the leaf to place him where Guy was placed. 

Also we don't know if Ei was even the one to formulate all the battle divisions anyways so that's quite a stretch to say he did. 

You also say if Ei did know of Guys true speed his role would be significant.. Which Guys role was. He was placed on the front lines to back up the scouting division.  Being placed as the first backup team is a pretty significant role I'd say.




And for your examples of high end speed feats in regards to Guy... Those are not high end feats though... We know Guy in a lower form of gates was able to intercept the gudodamas from juubidara to save Kakashi from a point blank assault... Which means he is faster than the orbs in at most was the sixth gate...

So since he was going slower than the orbs tell us that the feats of Lee Minato Kakashi and Gaara reacting and intercepting guys speed against juubidara wasn't Guys full speed.  

So they are faster than eighth gate Guys low end feats but his high end feats of getting to madaras back before madara can turn his head are still> these feats by Lee Minato Kakashi and Gaara.


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## Veracity (Mar 25, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Ei's statement isn't correct though and we know this to be a fact.. It was proven false the chapter he stated it in...
> 
> But you yourself said why its not a reliable statement in regards to Guys speed. The statement itself is an exaggeration and or he didn't have enough manga knowledge to base his statement off of.
> 
> ...



What? Nobody had information on Naruto seeing as Naruto learned KCM mode that same day and not even killer bee knew the extent of his abilities. Naruto suppassed Ay in the very same fight. Nobody had knowledge on that, and nobody knew the extent of Narutos abilities. That's different for Gai though seeing as he's had the 7th gate down for awhile, and Team Gai, Kakashi, Yamato and Tsuande all have extensive knowledge on him.

That's not an exaggerated statement at all. An exaggerated statement is something like " nobody expect {insert name} can beat me in a battle ." That's far different than clearly labeling yourself as the fastest Shinobi alive. Which not only came from Ay, but came from the manga created himself and was said JUST TO SHOW that Naruto had become the new fastest ninja. If Kishi only wanted to display Ay as one of the fastest, he didn't have to label him as THE fastest alive, but KISHI HIMSELF chose to do that. ? Ay has plenty of information on Gai himself seeing how important Gai is to the army. Ay has knowledge in every member of the SA alliance which excluding the Akatsuki and Oro, basically makes up every ninja of worth. Making the statement of being the fastest, meant he knew he was faster then any of those ninja which includes Gai.

Um no? Ay, as commander of the war, would be given all knowledge on Gai. And even where Gai was placed in the war doesn't really matter at all seeing as Ay still placed himself on a speed tier above Gai even after having extensive knowledge on him. That's really the big point here. Ay , even after knowing how fast 7th gated Gai is, still knows he's faster and Kishi supports this. That kinda kills your argument here.

Ay was there and witnessed Shikaku formulate battle platoons. He easily has a say in pretty anything he wants to complain about seeing as he is the damn commander. So he has a clear idea of where Gais speed is in relation to his own .

Gais role wasn't as significant as it could have been . If he truly was the fastest he could have been used to capture KCM Naruto and Killer Bee.


Or maybe those were low end feats for the black orbs, and the high end feats were against Red Aura GAI? Can you prove which are high and low end feats considering techniques and ninja vary in speeds? Facts are we only know for sure that Red Aura Gai> 7th gate Gai. And there's no way that Red Aura Gai Came at Madara much slower than his 6th gate form. We both know that doesn't make sense come on.


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

A false statement is still a false statement. I brought up naruto situation because it was the easiest relatable example. Or like to say obito was still faster than ei. They had knowledge on him but no one said anything about him. Bee has faster feats in speed yet they didn't make a mention of him either.  My point still stands that eis statement was in fact wrong. If its wrong on all these fronts no reason it needs to be correct for Guy.

Saying I'm the fastest man alive when he isn't is the exact definition of a exaggerated statement.

Kishi never said ei is the fastest.. He wrote it so that the character said it himself that he's the fastest. But if kishi did say raikage is the fastest ninja in the series can I get an interview statement of him saying as such.

Can you prove ei had intensive knowledge on guys speed? Because feats from the manga says he didnt. And I'm talking base guy has feats to show he is faster than ei. You saying seventh gate guy is slower than ei is simply laughable.

What? I've already told you why they put guy where he was placed. Guy is a taijutsu specialist so he was placed in the close range division. Shikaku nor ei would not need to know anything more.

What do you mean he could have been used to go capture naruto.. He was already deployed in the war and was with his division during the night time. Therefore he could not have gone out to intercept bee and naruto.


And exactly you said it yourself. Ninjas can vary in speeds. We know this is a fact. Can you prove the orbs can vary in speed? As far as I know they have a set speed until they reach a certain range.

And there is a way guy came at madara slower. Its because he didn't outpace the black orbs and yet his sixth gate self could. Its that simple. And I've already told you how guy has different levels of speed like getting to madaras back from a similar starting distance to this feat yet for this feat he clearly didn't go at that speed. Right there and then shows that this isn't Guys high end feat.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 25, 2015)

Ei only considered himself the fastest Shinobi Alive considering he managed to keep up with Minato's speed the best compared to other ninja Minato has encountered. Since Ei managed to tango with the person who's claimed to be the "fastest man alive," wouldn't it make sense for Ei to consider himself the fastest Shinobi out there?


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## SSMG (Mar 25, 2015)

I don't think its solely based off his encounter with minato. Because minato managed to get to his back and land a strike after using ftg... Whereas his bro managed to stalemate minato after minato used the same technique. It has to be based on his running speed in general. 

But then again in regards to ei vs guys speed.... Ei said he's the fastest man/shinobi alive and we all know guy is a beast


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## Veracity (Mar 25, 2015)

SSMG said:


> A false statement is still a false statement. I brought up naruto situation because it was the easiest relatable example. Or like to say obito was still faster than ei. They had knowledge on him but no one said anything about him. Bee has faster feats in speed yet they didn't make a mention of him either.  My point still stands that eis statement was in fact wrong. If its wrong on all these fronts no reason it needs to be correct for Guy.
> 
> Saying I'm the fastest man alive when he isn't is the exact definition of a exaggerated statement.
> 
> ...



It's not a false statement at all nor is the Naruto situation relatable. Quite frankly the Naruto situation is absolutely terrible. So just stop there its actually kinda bugging me that you actually think you can use that to Frankly.

Obito was faster then Ay? Obito's movement speed isn't faster than Ay by any means. And when Ay makes the claim that he was the "fastest " he means his max powered shunshin not hit reactions and what not basically . Bee isn't faster than Ay that's fucking comical. Ay Isnt going around making the statement that he's the fastest when he has FULL KNOWLEDGE on his brother if his brother was truly faster. Which he is not. Nawww. Ays statement is completely right and is backed up in the Manga basically.

That's not the type of exaggeration I was talking about. And it's cool cause it's backed up in the manga and Ay has a reason to make the statement, why would Kishi have him lie lol? Doesn't make sense . But you can believe that if you want to.?

Kishi writes the manga. What he's says though his characters is often a representation of what he believes himself considering he made the chapters himself Ya know ...?  Makes no sense for him to make characters and have them blatantly lie , like that doesn't really make sense haha. Especially when said character has massive amounts of knowledge on Gai.

I mean come on that's just ridiculous. I've already proven how Ay has knowledge on Gai.  The Hokage has knowledge on everyone's abilities in the village. Same goes for the Commander, especially when entering a war . I mean that's obvious.

What feats from the manga show that Ay doesn't have knowledge? I'll actually wait for you to post them .

You think Ay would make the claim that Ay> everyone else if BASE Gai was truly faster than him. You think BASE GAI is faster than cloaked Raikage ? Lol, I don't think I need further waste my time, I'll finish this post, but I don't think I really need to go further .

Why the hell wouldn't the commander of chief need to know anything more about Gai . That's simply dumb . You think he looked at Kakashi and said he has a sharingan that's all I need to know ? Even if THATS THE REASON HE CHOSE TO PUT GAI THERE, he would STILL be expected to learn the full extent of his abilities. Raikage knew about Kakashi and Sasukes abilities before even meeting them, and only as Raikage. You're telling me he won't know about Gais speed, when he's his commander ?

The Naruto example was bad. I'll admit it .

That's the problem. We aren't positive if Madara was using the black orbs at their fastest( they vary in speeds) but we know for sure that Red Aura Gai> 6 gated Gai in speed( by a massive amount given the crazy power), and we know that Gai wasn't slowing down as he was aiming to kill Madara. You can't really be serious by saying that 6th gated Gai could possibly move faster than even a casual 8th gated Gai. If you believe that, then you can keep that to yourself and I don't think I want to waste the time here tbh.


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## Icegaze (Mar 26, 2015)

@likeboss i gave up a while ago and put him on that ignore list. trust me, just do that


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## SSMG (Mar 26, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> It's not a false statement at all nor is the Naruto situation relatable. Quite frankly the Naruto situation is absolutely terrible. So just stop there its actually kinda bugging me that you actually think you can use that to Frankly.
> 
> Obito was faster then Ay? Obito's movement speed isn't faster than Ay by any means. And when Ay makes the claim that he was the "fastest " he means his max powered shunshin not hit reactions and what not basically . Bee isn't faster than Ay that's fucking comical. Ay Isnt going around making the statement that he's the fastest when he has FULL KNOWLEDGE on his brother if his brother was truly faster. Which he is not. Nawww. Ays statement is completely right and is backed up in the Manga basically.
> 
> ...




Umm he wasn't the fastest person at the time he made the statement thus he made a false statement. And it doesn't matter if naruto just got that power up the day before because there was more than enough time for bee and yamato to tell raikage about narutos yellow flash like speed he used against kisame but he didn't know of that speed clearly thus making the naruto example relevant still.

Obitos feats say otherwise and that's all we need to know that ei was wrong.

Bees tentacle covered much more area in the time it took ei running at full speed to take a few steps.
We also had in the previous chapter before the statement was made base bee and v2 ei rushing at each other and clashing in the middle ground putting base bee on a non going for the kill eis speed. Factor in bees v1 and v2 cloaks and its easy to see he's faster than his bro as well.

But it is an exaggeration though so I really do t care if its" not how you meant it"  ei was proven wrong so we shouldn't take the statement as an absolute truth like you are doing.

Kishi writes the manga yes but not everything in the manga is what kishi thinks to be true. Authors write charactersto be arrogant and speak out of turn all the time. A perfrct example of this is vegeta of dragonball. And guess what raikage is known in universe as being an arrogant Kage so there's no reason to believe everything he says as if it can never be wrong. When you say kishi said a certain thing that means he said it himself in an interview... Not having a character who is known as being rash and arrogant in universe to make the claim. So I'll ask again do you have an interview statement of kishi saying this?

No you havent given no proof of ei having full knowledge of guys abilities. Like I said all he would need to know is that guy is the best taijutsu user in the village to be placed where he was placed. So I'll ask you again do you have any actual proof of ei knowing how fast guy is? Do you have proof that ei has knowledge of any of his subordinates speeds? Because so far all you've said is why you think he has knowledge which as I'm sure you know isn't actual proof. 
In case you don't know the difference actual proof would be Tsunade or shikaku saying " guy can go x mph or x kph" but no statement was ever made.

And the feats of base guy covering the same distance naruto did in less time say that guy is faster than ei. And before you say naruto wasn't using his full speed there that doesn't make any sense. Obito literally got to naruto and was about to kamui warp naruto away. If that wasn't naruto full speed he could have just went full speed to escape but he didn't he needed to be saved by guy.


Ithink raikage is arrogant(which he is) and wasnt fully informed on the abilities of every ninja in the entire alliance. Which everything points to this being the case.


Because they only had a few days to prepare for the war? You think he's going to get the full run down on all the abilities going so far as to be given precise details of there speed of 100,000 ninjas is simply ridiculous. It'd literally take him a year to be given all this knowledge yet obviously that didn't happen or he wouldn't have made the claim in the first place due to bee an yamato seeing narutos minato like speed earlier yet raikage was clueless about this speed.


For raikage knowing sasukes abilities we are explicitly told he sought out the full knowledge of sasukes abilities. And IIRC for kakashi he only knew him as kakshi of the sharigan which is his title that everyone knows kakashi by.... There's no reason to believe he knew the full extent of every shinobis abilities in the alliance especially not guys due to later showings. 

Can you prove the orbs go different speeds? I've already proven how guy can go different speeds in eighth gate due to madara reacting to the speed of guy falling yet he could not react when guy got to his back from a similar distance away earlier on.. That and we are outright told the eighth Gate has different levels of speeds when using EE.

You don't have to reply if you don't want to just know that your examples were wrong.


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## Veracity (Mar 27, 2015)

SSMG said:


> Umm he wasn't the fastest person at the time he made the statement thus he made a false statement. And it doesn't matter if naruto just got that power up the day before because there was more than enough time for bee and yamato to tell raikage about narutos yellow flash like speed he used against kisame but he didn't know of that speed clearly thus making the naruto example relevant still.
> 
> Obitos feats say otherwise and that's all we need to know that ei was wrong.
> 
> ...



I decided to reply:

Omg bruh are you serious . Let me break this down to you so you can understand. When Ay made the statement he didn't have knowledge on Naruto's speed . Nor did bee or Yamato considering naruto hasn't achieved above Raikage speeds yet. When he blitzed Kisame, Yamato even said himself that Naruto was quick , but he hadn't reached his fathers speed yet, or even the speed tier of ay. Hence the reason the feat against Kisame wasn't even that impressive on top of the fact that Naruto was being held off by V1 ay before he could pull of his max powered shunshin. Then let me also add on the fact that Bee and Naruto were disobeying SA orders by rushing to the battlefield so even IFFFF bee had known about narutos speed he wouldn't have told AY nor did he actually make any contact with Ay between Naruto learning KCM and Naruto being intercepted by the Raikage and Hokage so that's extremely false . So yes. That example is extremely relevant and idk why you are trying to assume ay though Naruto was > above speed considering ay was holding him off the entire scene and Kishi made a BIGGG DEAL about Naruto surpassing Minato's speed and made it absolutely obvious that that was Narutos very first surpassing ays speed tier . Can you please bring up some feats of Obito's that put his speed above Ays ? And we aren't talking about CQC speed or reactions . We are talking about strictly movement speed as ays movement speed is what makes him " the fastest ninja alive." Obito has never been mentioned for speed, and is only formidable in CQC because he can read an individuals  body movements and can phase through attacks to land blindsided strikes . His actual movement speed is weak af. He doesn't even use his movement speed often seeing as he actually teleports everywhere to travel usually.  Can you provide this panel of bees tentacle moving extremely fast ? Cause I've never seen such scan. When Ay came at bee , he didn't come at bee with full speeds . Evident by the fact that when Ay did prep his full speed , bee almost shit his pants and said something like he's prepping for his full speed, which was never said prior to that: comes from filler here
He even went further on to say that he was prepping for speeds to kill Naruto , and because Ay wasn't attembe dpting to kill KB, we can assume the level of speed he used against killer bee was much slower. Then I might add that Ay reached bee in the middle because it was a lariat contest. The very technique is made for both individuals to meet in the middle, and Ay attempting to meet Bee in the middle then seemingly overpower him basically. Even if we were to actually believe that bee was even close to V2 Ay, we would have to assume that they possessed completely equal Shunshin. Which is a a pretty bad opinion considering Ay who has been working on his speed his entire life( minato actually commented on his speed feat and rep and didn't say anything about bee) could not possibly be equal than his younger base brother who doesn't even train speed. And that's actually pretty unlikely that they possess absolutely the same level shunshin too btw.  Then I'll also add that Ay ALWAYS underestimates bee. He thinks bee is a lot weaker then he really is, evident by the fact that he canonically tells BEE that he's weakening his lariat to match his own, meaning he probably came at bee with the mindset that he was weaker:  comes from filler here
and Ay thought that bee needed V1 to match his power output considering that was used when Ay and Bee beheaded Kisame. And notice how they also hit Kisame at the same time in the model despite Ay using V1 and Bee using V1. THEN there's the fact that Ay feats are outright better than bees regarding speed , when put up against the same opponent. A weaker and weakened Sasuke could react to V1 bees lariat( bee even commented on Sasukes speed, and said that only Ay had dodged his V1 Lariat before) while MS healthy Sasuke couldn't even see or react to ays physical movements. Sasuke was so much slower that he needed to shield himself with amaterasu and Sussano because he didn't know where Ay was gonna come from. So who do you think is actually faster? V2 Ay or base Bee?


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## Veracity (Mar 27, 2015)

Cont: 
Actually to be honest, ays statement isn't an exaggeration considering it was true and Ay had the knowledge to make the claim. Notice that the claim was never mentioned in ays introduction or when he battled Sasuke? It was only ever mentioned after Ay had gained a substantial amount of knowledge on all Shinobi( GAI as well) and became the commander of the entire SA. Even if you were to actually assume it was an exaggeration, or the exaggeration that be used against Ay, facts are, Ay had a reason to make this claim. Bee, Naruto and Tsunade all listened to him make this claim and were in total agreement. Everytime Ay is in a chapter his speed is basically brought up. Karin, Darui and all hyped his speed up to be something that an MS user like Sasuke couldn't react to. When Ay came at Madara, Madara even exclaimed that Ay was extremely speedy, when Ay matches off against MINATO, Minato exclaims that Ay is known for his mighty speed, and when Tsuande sees Naruto and Ay zipping around the battlefield, she is in awe that Naruto can keep up with his speed. Tsuande has never once sad anything about Gai's speed, and even when Ay said he was the fastest, Tsuande never even thought mentioned Gai. Mind you, you think that base Gai is actually faster than V2 Ay. If that was true, Gai would easily be known as the fastest man alive in his first gate, but he isn't actually known as that at all. Tsuande, who is the freaking Hokage, has extensive knowledge on the gates and their enhancements and easily knows how fast Gai is in base( Kakashi clearly does given their rivalry, and All of Team Gai would know, and the Hokage is guaranteed to know more information than all of them put together) and never says anything about how fast Gai should be in the 7th gate. As if he was faster than KCM Naruto in base, he would be much faster than Juubito in the 7th gate. And Juubito was the fastest entity alive when he blitzed the Edo Kage. His speed was faster than anything anyone had ever seen. & you're basically saying that Gai was actually faster then that, but just never did anything because he didn't want to ? Or because his speed and power was far and lower than Juubitos? Also tell me then that if base Gai was faster or EVEN REMOTELY close, to the speed of KCM Naruto, why did he have trouble against the seven swordsman of the mist ? Why didn't he just blitz them all at once with his Juubito level base speed? Why were they able to react to his speed: comes from filler here
Why didn't he just erase zabuzas torso with a kick before he had activated his jutsu, which put all his teammates in harm ? I mean Gai needed the 6th gate just to catch Kisame who was running away from him? And b4 you say , "those are low end feats ", base Gai wouldn't need to be any where close to a KCM shunshin to blitz all those opponents off the land scape. Facts are, you overate the shit out of Gais speed all the time. Especially base Gai, who had never been hyped to even be close to a speedster . Not even close. Especially faster than someone who was hyped on the yellow flashes level. Okay, then provide scans of character statements that relate to ays statement( not about character power in relation to others)  that are false and were intended to be false by KISHI . The Vegeta example is bad, because not only does the creator of DBZ not like Vegeta, but everytime Vegeta brags about being stronger than Goku and being the saiyan prince, goku does something to negate his statement. Whether it be besting him in a battle or stalemating an enemy that made vegata look like shit, facts are vegatas opinion is unsupported and even he goes on to admit this. Ay, on the other hand, has a very supported opinion. Not only does everyone agree with him, but people hype his speed up all the time. Ay also has the knowledge to hype up his opinion basically. And no, Ay isn't arrogant. And if you believe him to be, then I would like you to provide Panels. Ay just lets his emotions and feelings overpower the right decision to make. Like how we decided to try to kill Naruto basically, and how he gave up his arm to inflict a small amount of damage on Sasuke. If anything, ays just a hothead kage and likes to do things his own way. But even them he still acknowledges others abilities and gives others praise. Except that's not what I mean. Kishi doesn't have time to talk about everything in the manga all day. He has a life and instead makes things obvious as daylight sometimes. The Ay example probably being the most obvious. It's just like when Hashirama said that Juubito was stronger than him. When Kishi made Hashirama say that, he made it damn obvious that he wanted the reader to assume that Juubito was > to Hashirama. I mean a hike arguing against that is just comical. That's just outright blatant. How am I gonna prove that Ay had full knowledge on Gai when it's implied and its mandatory for a commander to have full knowledge on his troops abilities regardless . Your acting like Gais speed is a secret or something and cannot be told ? If you want to start arguing that I need to prove every little obvious thing, then I easily can play the same game. Prove that Madara didn't want Gai to rush him in the 7th gate and prove that Madara didn't actually want to be hit there ? Prove that Madara couldn't react to 8th gated , maybe he actually wanted to be hit for the thrill of the battle ? I mean you really can't prove that to be false can you? Cause Kishi nor Madara outright states that Madara couldn't avoid Gai at all. Prove that KCM Naruto was using his full speed against Obito at all( he actually wasn't and I can prove that btw). Lmao. Ay has information in Gai by virtue of needing the information to help assemble an army.  Gais easily the 4th strongest ninja in Konoha, and Ay would easily be given information on him considering how powerful he is in relation to all the other thousands of ninja in Konoha. Gai is top 10 ninja in ALL OF THE SA at that point. It's comical to think Ay wouldn't have knowledge on his abilities when Tsuande and Kakashi have full knowledge on him. Ay had knowledge on lighting blade before even meeting Kakashi. You don't think he knows anything about Gai, after merging their armies together and becoming the commander ? Except that's not all Ay would have known about Gai. Just knowing that Gai is a good Taijustu specialist isn't even close to all that's needed. Speed, power and mindset are all very important. Ay, as a speed demon, would easily be interested in knowing the extent of Gais abilities lets be real. Just knowing that Gai is good at taijjstu could actually get Gai and his part of the squadron killed. What if Gai was good at taijustu but was reckless af? They wouldn't know that because like you said, they only know about his taijjstu skill and could careless about anything else surrounding him. Anything else is useless I guess lol. We don't need actual proof when we have implication. Not everything is always outright stated in the manga. Kishi actually allows us readers to infer stuff, and makes other stuff obvious without outright saying it. We aren't that dumb to need everything written down on paper lmao. I don't think any statement like that would ever need to be made. Tsuande or Yamato wouldn't know exactly how fast Gai goes as that's really quite unnecessary. They would however know how fast he was in relation to Gai. If base Gai is > KCM Naruto than Tsunade wouldn't be impressed with Raikage or narutos speed. It would be fodder compared to 7th gated Gais speed. The Sannin and all the leaf higher ups would consider Gai faster than minato considering Gai is faster than Juubito right ? Yeah, so I want you to provide the feat of Gai outpacing Naruto so I can refute them. Can't wait actually haha. Whoa whoa, the alliance had more than a week to prepare for the war , and you have to realize that out of 100,000 Shinobi , Gai is easily top 10. Ay would clearly need FULL KNOWLEGE on the 10 strongest Shinobi in the war considering how crucial they are to the success of the war. Most ninja in general are Chunnin with low skill sets and less Ninjustu access. They prolly would need to brief Raikage on their abilities given that they can just group the fodder into a squad for kunai throwing basically lol. But Gai ? The best taijustu in Konoha ? Top 10 in the entire SA? Full KNOWLEGE was clearly given and that's obvious. And you think Gai being > to Minato wouldn't have been brought up to the Raikage off all people ? Except Raikage had knowledge on Sasuke that he couldn't have actually figured out via Intel search. How many people do you think know the exact different and eye pattern of the MS and 3 tomoe ? Not everyone knows Kakashis title, and why would you assume that Kakashi is far more popular than Gai ? And Ay knew that Sasuke was using the same Raiton tech as Kakashi. He'd ATLEAST know basic knowledge of Gais taijjustu. The Burden of of proof is actually on you to prove that the orbs don't move different  speeds considering you claimed they moved at the same speed first. I'll wait for that. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding Gai not being able to react to Red Aura Gai actually. And can you provide the feats saying that Gai has different level of speeds( IIRC it being power but I could be wrong). And Gai came at Madara at his max speed when he was intercepted by Minato, Lee , Kakashi and Gaara. And even if Gai had different speeds, his lower speed of Red Aura gate is still >>>>>>>>>> to the 7th gate. Laughable at the six basically. But .


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## Icegaze (Mar 27, 2015)

reps at like boss


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## SSMG (Mar 27, 2015)

@Likes boss
Shen naruto blized kisame it most definitely was his full speed since he couldn't control his powers yet meaning he used everything he had. This was shown in narutos training needing to be able to not use his full power at all times in bees training. Bees statement of all he seen was a yellow flash supports the fact that it was his full speed and also enforces that that sperd is comparable to minatos speed who also was known as the yellow flash.
Bee not telling the raikage doesn't mean that yamato didn't.. I mean the whole basis for your argument is that raikage was fully informed on his subordinates. Which means he would have asked yamato in order to gain knowledge on naruto. Which he clearly didn't so the assumption that he asked for how fast guy can go is just as unfounded.

Obito was able to blitz the same naruto that ei could not therefore he has a better speed feat than ei. Obito was also commented on by zetsu as being able to travel light speed so yes he has been mentioned as being really fast. 

The link you posted of bee did not mention eis speed. Just that be is now going for the kill. So my point still stands. And no if ei was much faster he wouldn't have met bee in the middle.. He would have crossed a further distance and met bee closer to bees side.. But that's. It what happened we see them meet in the middle ground meaning they were more or less the same speed.
And you saying ei had to previously hold back in their lariats doesn't mean much when for this time he specifically says let's see whose is strongest. That tells me he isn't holding back for this one. The entire scene would be pointless if he was holding back.

1
There is the panel of bees tentacle able to reach and hit full speed ei to save him from minatos kunai. This clearly shows bees tentacles max speed is faster than eis speed as you can only reach and hit someone from behind if you're faster than them.


And saying ei specifically trains only for speed or that bee doesn't train for speed are both unfounded. If you could prove these claims that'd be great but you'd never be able to so you're just talking out your ass.

Your points about sasukeand also their lariat against the zetsu clone are moot because the later showings make these obsolete.

Eis statement was not true though so you're wrong. Naruto was faster than ei and base guy is faster than naruto. Its that simple. We know this to be true due to the actions that iccured in the manga. And actions speak louder than words.

All your examples of Tsunade should know but didn't say anything don't mean jack. She never confirmed nor denied eis statement. Since she never confirmed it you can't use Tsunade as evidence that guy is slower. Its like when you know your arrogant friend is wrong you keep quiet to save yourself from an argument and let them find out the hard way. Also the showings of guys speed being faster than ei occurred after eis statement so how exactly is Tsunade supposed to know of something that hasn't occurred yet... Is she psychic now all of a sudden?

Your example with juubito is bad. Guy never once fought juubito so that's a moot point.

Your example about the swordsmen is also bad. Guy off screened three of them so that shows me he was much faster than them. 
The link you posted was a horrible example once again... It seems you do this quite often you make these horrible examples without even realizing what went on in the page. But that post was zabuza and co attacking kankuro and co and guy also along with Lee and kakashi and co intercepted them so yeah I'm not sure what that was supposed to prove. They certainly didn't react to his speed there.

And the reason guy didn't solo all of the swordsmen is quite obvious. That fight was showing how far kakashi has come since his fight with zabuza it was kakashis time to shine there.

Guy needed to use gates to catch kisame when kisame was in the water using a shark to swim away. What's your point? This was the only time kisame had used a water shark to travel so he gets scaled up. Thus another bad example.


Why are you asking me for statements from kishi when I never claimed kishi made said statements. You were the one to claim kishi made such a statement and as of yet you have yet to provide the statement in question.... Prove your claim first don't try and push to burden of proof away from yourself now.

And if you don't realize vegetas boasting that gets proven wrong is no different than eis boasting that gets proven wrong.. Then you're stupid. They both are arrogant rash characters and were both proven wrong yet according to you ones credible and ones not... That's intellectually dishonesty.


You ask for proof of how raikage is arrogant then you go on to to say how he is arrogant.. You said it yourself he is a hothead who thinks with his emotions.. Just like every arrogant person ever. But also the fact that ei claimed he was the fastest when he was proven not be to also proves he is arrogant.

You made the claim ei had full knowledge on guy. So if you can't prove it that's not my fault.

For madara against seventh gate guy we know madara wanted to get his moon eye plan done as fast as possible and we also know he doesn't waste time fighting his opponents because of this(look at tobirama and minato)

For madara vs eight gate guy we know madara didn't want to get hit by guys attacks he says so himself in his own inner thoughts.

For kcm naruto I have already explained to you why naruto was using his max speed. If he wasn't there'd be no point in guy even coming to his rescue since he'd just up his speed and zipp on away. Which didn't happen he needed to be saved by guy. He's never before or after showed the ability to do so by himself to obitos speed either.

So yeah more examples from you that are quite frankly horrid.

You keep repeating that ei would need to know guys speed and that hed be interested in knowing guys speed.. But there's no proof of this in your posts so far.  Just the reasons you think he'd have that knowledge. But if you could you know.. Actually prove that he had knowledge on small details going down to their precise speeds on every ninja in the alliance that'd be great. You claim this to be obvious so proving it should be easy...

But yeah all ei would need to know is guy is the best cqc specialist in konoha for ei to put him where he was placed.

What? You claimed the orbs vary in speed so prove it.
Because it isn't stated hinted of implied that they vary in speed... 

I never once claimed guy couldn't react to his own speeds... I see you don't know how to read(as well as write but I'll get to that later). I said madara could react to guy falling but couldn't react to when guy blitzed  madara and got to his back before he could turn his head. That shows guy has different levels of speed and to add to that we are told that the steps of EE go different speeds(not power like you just claimed so you're wrong agains)


And no guy didn't come at madara at max speed when he was falling.. That was the first step in the next EE usage which means it was his slowest eighth gate speed. 

I think I covered all your points I can't tell though because of your horrible paragraph structure. Make your points seperate from each other and concise so they are much easier to read because your previous post was a giant wall of textual garbage. I'm surprised I could even read it at all. If you keep posting giant walls of text I proly won't respond to that crap. But just know your examples were are and will be wrong.


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## Rocky (Mar 27, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:tldr

Dude. _Dude._


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