# Base Teach runs the gauntlet



## MYJC (Jan 3, 2019)

This is current Teach, but with NO Devil Fruit powers. All he has is his base stats and haki. Keep in mind he was able to injure Shanks (even without a DF), though we don't know the circumstances or how long ago that was.

Teach is healed after each round. Bloodlust on. Manga knowledge.

1. Hody Jones after taking 10 steroid pills
2. Current Franky
3. Current Smoker
4. Current Sanji
5. Doflamingo
6. Katakuri

How far does he get?


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2019)

Current *Yonkou* Teach? He clears.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Jan 3, 2019)

Imagine said:


> Current *Yonkou* Teach? He clears.



You think Teach with no DF powers at all is still above Katakuri? 

Interesting.


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2019)

MYJC said:


> You think Teach with no DF powers at all is still above Katakuri?
> 
> Interesting.


His physical strength was already on par with or even above most of these guys with Karakuri being the exception pre timeskip.

The Yami and Gura aren't what made it possible for him to take quakes from WB or nearly break Ace's neck.


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## MYJC (Jan 3, 2019)

Imagine said:


> His physical strength was already on par with or even above most of these guys with Karakuri being the exception pre timeskip.
> 
> The Yami and Gura aren't what made it possible for him to take quakes from WB or nearly break Ace's neck.



He's certainly strong, but physical strength isn't everything. Sure he took a quake from WB, but a few hours prior he nearly died to Magellan.

I'm just not sure he has an answer for the hax of a Doffy or Katakuri. Dude doesn't come off as that fast or agile and without his DF I'm not sure he has the speed or AOE deal with hax.


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## Imagine (Jan 3, 2019)

MYJC said:


> He's certainly strong, but physical strength isn't everything. Sure he took a quake from WB, but a few hours prior he nearly died to Magellan.
> 
> I'm just not sure he has an answer for the hax of a Doffy or Katakuri. Dude doesn't come off as that fast or agile and without his DF I'm not sure he has the speed or AOE deal with hax.


Magellan's DF is hax. The Gura Gura no Mi is raw power so there's a big difference there.

Luffy flat out overpowered Parasite and Katakuri has no real offensive hax to speak of.

Big Mom can react to someone like G4 Luffy and Kaidou flat-out blitzed him so looks aren't everything. He was plenty fast against the characters he fought pre timeskip.


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## Kylo Ren (Jan 3, 2019)

I'm not sure if he can defeat DD but he stop at Katakuri.



Imagine said:


> Katakuri has no real offensive hax to speak of.


Future Sight is enough though to defeat Teach.


Imagine said:


> Luffy flat out overpowered Parasite


doesn't mean BB can do it too.


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## xenos5 (Jan 3, 2019)

Imagine said:


> Magellan's DF is hax. The Gura Gura no Mi is raw power so there's a big difference there.
> 
> Luffy flat out overpowered Parasite and *Katakuri has no real offensive hax to speak of.*
> 
> Big Mom can react to someone like G4 Luffy and Kaidou flat-out blitzed him so looks aren't everything. He was plenty fast against the characters he fought pre timeskip.



Well... there is the whole burying alive with Mochi until suffocation thing. I have no doubt Current BB could break out of it with his DFs but without them he’d have to try to eat his way out like Luffy did and I’m not sure he’d be able to.


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## DA hawk (Jan 3, 2019)

He clears until doffy. I don't see how he'll tag doffy. Doffy goes airborne, spam overheat, awakening parasite etc. Would take 2 days but teach will be down eventually.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jan 3, 2019)

Imagine said:


> His physical strength was already on par with or even above most of these guys with Karakuri being the exception pre timeskip.
> 
> The Yami and Gura aren't what made it possible for him to take quakes from WB or nearly break Ace's neck.


Yeah pre skip Teach himself pretty much was at worst comparable to currently Luffy in being borderline firstmate level who just happens to holds back unless he's in a serious fight much like how Luffy can go from struggling with characters far weaker than him to beating the arc enemy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Jan 3, 2019)

he clears easily


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## MO (Jan 4, 2019)

he probably stops at doffy if not then definitly katakuri. Teach isn't a physical monster to the point he can beat an Fm without his fruit.


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## Corax (Jan 4, 2019)

Stops at Doflamingo unless CIS/PIS involved. Doflamingo can just air walk and bombard him from above. Teach without his fruits can't reach him.


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## trance (Jan 4, 2019)

i bet shockwave punches are very much possible for someone with yonko level physical strength like teach


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 4, 2019)

I actually cant say where he stops tbh

could be loses to DD, could be clears


he loses *all* ranged options while fruitless, thats kinda bad

if he has ~yonkou (admiral) lvl haki then he should clear


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 4, 2019)

He one shots them all.

He may have trouble carving Katakuri, but Latakuri ain’t able to hurt him.


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 4, 2019)

Catching


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 4, 2019)

Katakuri curbstomps this clown. Doflamingo also easily wins.


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## Shinthia (Jan 4, 2019)

No Df/ Yami DF BB underestimation is nothing new tbh and honestly i dont blame u cause BB's nature.
When Shanks himself said the permanent scar he got is not from Mihawk or he was being careless , it was a legit scar from no DF BB.
Ot: Its Yonkou No DF BB ? Lol he clears

Reactions: Like 1


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## oiety (Jan 4, 2019)

If he gets in range of any of them, he wins. If his durability with the Yami increasing his pain was enough to survive things like Ace's Hiken, Magellan's Hydra, and, most importantly, Whitebeard's Quakes and Bisento slash, then without it and after the time-skip I can't really see any of these guys putting him down.

Hody, Franky, Smoker, and Sanji get punched into oblivion. 

In Doflamingo and Katakuri's case I could legit see him grabbing the string/mochi, and reeling them in for attacks.


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## xenos5 (Jan 4, 2019)

oiety said:


> If he gets in range of any of them, he wins. If his durability with the Yami increasing his pain was enough to survive things like Ace's Hiken, Magellan's Hydra, and, most importantly, Whitebeard's Quakes and Bisento slash, then without it and after the time-skip I can't really see any of these guys putting him down.
> 
> In Doflamingo and Katakuri's case *I could legit see him grabbing the string/mochi, and reeling them in for attacks.*



That shouldn’t be an issue for Katakuri since he can easily detach any body part he makes out of Mochi and reform it.

And whether or not Teach can be harmed he still could be suffocated when he’s buried under a gigantic mound of Mochi (especially if Katakuri keeps adding more to it).


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## GilDLax (Jan 4, 2019)

By feat, stop at DD. BB has no range here and neither DD nor Katakuri is idiot, especially with manga knowledge and as I understand, no CIS and PIS by default. Both are also not such lightweight to be taken out with one hit if BB got one in. 

It's hasty to just scale BB off Kaidou. They are OVERALL on the same level but one can have this aspect way better than that of another. For all we know, the things that really put BB in Emperor level are his two fruits and mastery of them. He can have subpar Base form compared to other Emperor. I know despite having powerful DFs both Kaidou and BM are physical monster but don't forget BB has 2 DFs and both as powerful and also make great combo. Nothing says he has to be like those two. If there's one who has benefit of the doubt it's Shanks since the guy has no DF and of course would put effort in honing his weapon fighting and base stats as well as Haki.

Imagine Vergo had those 2 fruits and complete mastery. He would be boosted several tiers even if his base stays the same.

BB's physicality can be chipped away slowly. If he shows his own version of Divine Thunder which somehow can cover hundred of meters distance then he can clear this but not yet.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 4, 2019)

If Teach is as powerful as some of you guys seem to think, why did he need to wait for decades on Whitebeard's ship for Yami and then steal Gura before finally trying to take on top-level characters? Even after acquiring those fruits, he showed how much of a bitch he was when backing down to Shanks, which means Shanks was either much weaker around the time he attacked him or it was only due to circumstance. With all of the new power at his disposal, it would be a piece of cake for him. Except it wasn't... Posters overrate a past experience that they know nothing about.

Katakuri and Doflamingo can at least deal with G4-level offense through their abilities or tanking. It's a joke to think Yami Teach's neck strike to Ace is anywhere near that level of ability, which means Teach would have quite a hard time putting either of them down with the little that he has. This same guy was put on his ass by Luffy before the timeskip, yet there are literal claims that he can put down people he might not even be able to touch. He will have other troubles without fruit abilities like dealing with their Awakening from several directions, and he is one of the most stationary when it comes to fighters. Never mind the fact that there's little reason to think he can take an attack through his heart or survive getting drowned in Awakening... The guy might even get one-shotted by Parasite. Jozu was helpless and has shown strength feats that are far above Teach's.

With the vast difference in range and speed of their attacks, Katakuri or Doflamingo would land ten attacks for every one attack that Teach lands. That's giving Teach a massive benefit of the doubt, too. He won't be able to draw in either of them without Yami, while he's not immortal and would still get damaged by all of these attacks.


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## Fel1x (Jan 4, 2019)

stops at Katakuri

and BB vs Katakuri is a hard question, because we don't know anything about current BB. Sure he has strong Haki now. But what about his base stats? can he move fast, can he punch hard and so on

We can only speculate about that. So I believe his base is not enough to defeat Katakuri


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## Kylo Ren (Jan 4, 2019)

I thought Katakuri can't hurt anyone is just a meme some people really think it's true?


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## trance (Jan 5, 2019)

what's there to be said about doffy? teach may not be able to reach him up in the sky but he sure as hell can dodge/counter all of his shit and he should have an enormous advantage in stamina, so he wins a battle of attrition

katakuri is admittedly a decent fight due to his coo and logia esque body

might be something like mid or high diff


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## DA hawk (Jan 5, 2019)

So Doffy can't just spam awakening/over heat and shit until BB drops? Could take days for all I care.

BB has absolutely no means of reaching DD.

How would BB deal with birdcage?? Is he going to 'punch' birdcage aswell? Let's get real here...


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## Corax (Jan 5, 2019)

No DF DD can't reach aerial opponents. He will need at least his yami fruit to pull. And I don't think that he can bruteforce awakening as he isn't likely to be G4 King Kong gun lvl. He is physically strong of course but he can't be as strong as G4 strongest attack he isn't Kaido after all.


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## Dunno (Jan 5, 2019)

Blackbeard could just jump. Or wait for Doflamingo to run out of stamina. Or just grab his strings and pull him down. His physical strength is definitely below that of most top tiers, but it's plenty enough to beat run-of-the-mill high tiers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Jan 5, 2019)

He is famous for his clumsiness and has no speed feats. Personally I doubt that he even can jump as he is very fat let alone reach cloud lvl (to date only Aokiji has something in this feat department and even he jumped well below cloud lvl). To be fairy DD can just cloud walk and bombard him by his awakening,he won't even need to risk overheat or any string attacks. And he has clone to test BB before the real fight starts.


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## Dunno (Jan 5, 2019)

Speed feats are irrelevant in One Piece. Teach will never blitz people, but he's still supposedly able to keep up with Kaido who blitzed Luffy who in turn was faster than Katakuri who was faster than Doflamingo. If Teach was slower than Doflamingo, he'd get stomped by anyone even remotely top tier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shinthia (Jan 5, 2019)

DD's haki was so weak that he could not even hurt G4 Luffy and guys think DD's attack can get through a haki of an Yonkou ?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jan 5, 2019)

With or without DF is irrelevant.

He is a Yonkou for a reasons.If a single scream from BM can do this:



then you can imagine what BB can do with targeted and controlled haki


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jan 5, 2019)

I'm trying to understand why some are assuming current fruitless Teach is stuck with his pre-skip stats as if the main antagonist that is standing in Luffy's way from becoming pirate king is unable to grow stronger beyond just obtaining another fruit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 5, 2019)

Doffy and Katakuri can’t even hurt Blackbeard


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## DA hawk (Jan 5, 2019)

Am I really seeing people put fruitless BB around admiral level? If so, he's far above the admirals with the Yami and Gura DFs.

What can "base stats" do exactly here,
Against doffy, will they help him reach airborne doffy? Nope. So all he is doing is taking hits from awakening/overheat/birdcage etc. You can't win by taking hits only!

Against Kata, what stats will make him tag Kata when the latter shape-shifts + FS + superior movement speed? The only way he is landing anything relevant is if Kata's haki depletes. But until that happens all he's doing is taking G4 level hits non-stop for a fucking long time! After that he needs to square up with a FM... With only his fists! 
Not to mention I fail to see how he escapes getting suffocated by kata without his fruits.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MYJC (Jan 5, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> Am I really seeing people put fruitless BB around admiral level? If so, he's far above the admirals with the Yami and Gura DFs.
> 
> What can "base stats" do exactly here,
> Against doffy, will they help him reach airborne doffy? Nope. So all he is doing is taking hits from awakening/overheat/birdcage etc. You can't win by taking hits only!
> ...



Didn't you know? Teach was Garp level even before eating any Devil Fruits.


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## MO (Jan 5, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Why wouldn't he be able to hit Katakuri?


Why would he? What's is he going to hit him with?a punch?  He doesn't have even close to the speed feats needed for that. He is never landing a hit on katakuri unless his haki depletes which by that time he is dead.


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## Dunno (Jan 5, 2019)

MO said:


> Why would he? What's is he going to hit him with?a punch?  He doesn't have even close to the speed feats needed for that. He is never landing a hit on katakuri unless his haki depletes which by that time he is dead.


He doesn't need speed feats to keep up with Doflamingo. His status as a top tier is enough. Shanks, Mihawk, Big Mom, Dragon, Aokiji or Akainu all lack the speed feats necessary to keep up with Doflamingo, but since they are all top tiers, we know that they could. Speed feats are highly irrelevant unless we know for a fact the a certain character is slower (Say for example EL Luffy vs Blueno).

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## MO (Jan 5, 2019)

Dunno said:


> He doesn't need speed feats to keep up with Doflamingo. *His status as a top tier is enough.* Shanks, Mihawk, Big Mom, Dragon, Aokiji or Akainu all lack the speed feats necessary to keep up with Doflamingo, but since they are all top tiers, we know that they could. Speed feats are highly irrelevant unless we know for a fact the a certain character is slower (Say for example EL Luffy vs Blueno).


no it's not stop this.


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## Dunno (Jan 5, 2019)

MO said:


> no it's not stop this.


Why wouldn't it be? I don't see you claiming that Big Mom would be unable to keep up with him, even though her fears suggests she has trouble keeping up with Brooks speed and that she significantly slower than for example  Katakuri. We obviously assume that Big Mom is able to keep up with Doflamingo and Katakuri either way. Not to mention that Teach has no speed feat at all post-TS.


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## MO (Jan 5, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Why wouldn't it be? I don't see you claiming that Big Mom would be unable to keep up with him, even though her fears suggests she has trouble keeping up with Brooks speed and that she significantly slower than for example  Katakuri. We obviously assume that Big Mom is able to keep up with Doflamingo and Katakuri either way. Not to mention that Teach has no speed feat at all post-TS.


Big mom without her fruit can keep up with katakuri either.


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## Dunno (Jan 5, 2019)

MO said:


> Big mom without her fruit can keep up with katakuri either.


I giess that's where we disagree. What about Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu or Dragon?


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jan 5, 2019)

Dunno said:


> He doesn't need speed feats to keep up with Doflamingo. His status as a top tier is enough. Shanks, Mihawk, Big Mom, Dragon, Aokiji or Akainu all lack the speed feats necessary to keep up with Doflamingo, but since they are all top tiers, we know that they could. Speed feats are highly irrelevant unless we know for a fact the a certain character is slower (Say for example EL Luffy vs Blueno).


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## DA hawk (Jan 5, 2019)

How is having better stats is enough?! What made BB a top tier isn't his stats alone, but his stats + 2 OP DFs. If he's a top tier with his stats alone, then he is above PK level after attaining his DFs. 
Pure nonsense!

Luffy has much better stats than Law, but he'll get merked without his fruit.


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## Dunno (Jan 6, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> How is having better stats is enough?! What made BB a top tier isn't his stats alone, but his stats + 2 OP DFs. If he's a top tier with his stats alone, then he is above PK level after attaining his DFs.
> Pure nonsense!
> 
> Luffy has much better stats than Law, but he'll get merked without his fruit.


It's not necessarily enough against Katakuri, but to suggest that he wouldn't be able to hit him at all is ridiculous. DF-less Teach isn't top tier, that I agree with. He should still be stronger than Doflamingo and possibly Katakuri as well though. 

The difference between Luffy and Law isn't that large. The difference between Teach and Doflamingo is huge. DF-less Luffy vs Diamante would be a more fair comparison.


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## DA hawk (Jan 6, 2019)

Dunno said:


> It's not necessarily enough against Katakuri, but to suggest that he wouldn't be able to hit him at all is ridiculous. DF-less Teach isn't top tier, that I agree with. He should still be stronger than Doflamingo and possibly Katakuri as well though.
> 
> The difference between Luffy and Law isn't that large. The difference between Teach and Doflamingo is huge. DF-less Luffy vs Diamante would be a more fair comparison.


You tell me how BB would hit a focused katakuri with Shape-shifting + FS + superior movement speed?


His stronger stats will only be relevant if they're fighting in cqc. Not when one is airborne constantly landing blows and the other is on the ground constantly recieving them. Match-up is vital here.

Luffy already trashes diamante in base. The gap between Luffy and Law isn't as big as you've said. Which is why Luffy will get straight up wrecked, while it's not the case for BB.

In any case, it's just a matter of making a point where stats are not everything.


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## Shinthia (Jan 6, 2019)

Match ups r imp , i get it. 
But, when ur haki game is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.

Can Kata & DD have haki strong enough to hurt a yonjou's haki ? If so & thats a big IF, then can they even take down Yonkou BB who is not taking bonus damage (no Yami) ?

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## Dunno (Jan 6, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> You tell me how BB would hit a focused katakuri with Shape-shifting + FS + superior movement speed?
> 
> 
> His stronger stats will only be relevant if they're fighting in cqc. Not when one is airborne constantly landing blows and the other is on the ground constantly recieving them. Match-up is vital here.
> ...


He wouldn't outclass Katakuri in speed. I don't mean that he would blitz Katakuri or anything like it. I'm thinking they would hit each other quite a bit, similarly to how Luffy vs Katakuri went. After all, G4 Luffy has shown not to be especially fast at all compared to the really strong guys. Base Luffy isn't the same as DF-less Luffy, although that's not very important, just a note. I don't think DF-less Luffy would actually trash Diamante. I think he would win, but not overwhelmingly. Stats is not everything, that's true, but they are quite important. Feats showing said stats are way less important though.


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## xenos5 (Jan 6, 2019)

Shinthia said:


> Match ups r imp , i get it.
> But, when ur haki game is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.
> 
> Can Kata & DD have haki strong enough to hurt a yonjou's haki ? If so & thats a big IF, then can they even take down Yonkou BB who is not taking bonus damage (no Yami) ?



Strong Haki + Strong DF > Very Strong Haki on its own. Block Mochi (a perfect combination of Strong Armament and Strong DF power) showcases that perfectly since it was able to make even G4 Snakeman Luffy's fist throb in pain (another Strong DF + Strong Haki combination except the haki was weaker than Katakuri's). Power Mochi as well (since it's essentially a larger version of Block Mochi enhanced by awakening that can be formed anywhere) with it being able to make G4 Boundman Luffy cough up blood. 

Aside from that there are some tricks that you need specific counters too as raw strength alone can't get you out of them. And I would say Katakuri's Mochi Mound that suffocates the opponent would qualify (your movement is extremely inhibited while stuck under a huge quantity of sticky substance, and Katakuri can just keep adding to it making it even harder to get out. So the ability to eat vast quantities of mochi or a DF that emits some kind of very strong energy attack is what you'd probably need).


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## xmysticgohanx (Jan 6, 2019)

Shinthia said:


> Match ups r imp , i get it.
> But, when ur haki game is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.
> 
> Can Kata & DD have haki strong enough to hurt a yonjou's haki ? If so & thats a big IF, then can they even take down Yonkou BB who is not taking bonus damage (no Yami) ?


 100% this

Katakuri and Doffy’s haki is irrelevant to this Blackbeard


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## DA hawk (Jan 6, 2019)

Dunno said:


> He wouldn't outclass Katakuri in speed. I don't mean that he would blitz Katakuri or anything like it. I'm thinking they would hit each other quite a bit, *similarly to how Luffy vs Katakuri went*. After all, G4 Luffy has shown not to be especially fast at all compared to the really strong guys. Base Luffy isn't the same as DF-less Luffy, although that's not very important, just a note. I don't think DF-less Luffy would actually trash Diamante. I think he would win, but not overwhelmingly. Stats is not everything, that's true, but they are quite important. Feats showing said stats are way less important though.


So either katakuri loses his cool or BB learns FS, otherwise he won't be hitting katakuri? I can agree to that, but I don't see either two happening here.


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## Corax (Jan 6, 2019)

Haki won't save BB from birdcage if he can't catch DF in the air. Within 1 hour he will die. Unless of course he is physically stronger than entire Dressrosa (including all gladiators,SH etc.). But this isn't possible of course. Even Kaido isn't physically stronger than entire Dressrosa. With Yami at least he pulls him and wins easily.


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## Shinthia (Jan 6, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> Strong Haki + Strong DF > Very Strong Haki on its own. Block Mochi (a perfect combination of Strong Armament and Strong DF power) showcases that perfectly since it was able to make even G4 Snakeman Luffy's fist throb in pain (another Strong DF + Strong Haki combination except the haki was weaker than Katakuri's). Power Mochi as well (since it's essentially a larger version of Block Mochi enhanced by awakening that can be formed anywhere) with it being able to make G4 Boundman Luffy cough up blood.
> 
> Aside from that there are some tricks that you need specific counters too as raw strength alone can't get you out of them. And I would say Katakuri's Mochi Mound that suffocates the opponent would qualify (your movement is extremely inhibited while stuck under a huge quantity of sticky substance, and Katakuri can just keep adding to it making it even harder to get out. So the ability to eat vast quantities of mochi or a DF that emits some kind of very strong energy attack is what you'd probably need).


Match ups r imp , i get it. 
But, when ur haki game *is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.*

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jan 6, 2019)

Stops at Doflamingo, if you give him the benefit of a doubt he makes it to Katakuri but then he definitely stops.


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## xenos5 (Jan 6, 2019)

Shinthia said:


> Match ups r imp , i get it.
> But, when ur haki game *is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.*



How arrogant. If you’re just going to ignore the actual content of my reply and repeat yourself I see no point debating with you.


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## Richard Lionheart (Jan 6, 2019)

How is Teach going to hurt Katakuri? He has no future sight.

I dont think he will win this match.


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## Shinthia (Jan 6, 2019)

xenos5 said:


> How arrogant. If you’re just going to ignore the actual content of my reply and repeat yourself I see no point debating with you.


like i said :But, when ur haki game *is not even close to ur opponents level , all ur tricks & advantages r irrelevant.*

if u really understood what i said then we would not even have to.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Vivo Diez (Jan 7, 2019)

Kaido oneshot a FM.

I don't see BB losing to an FM or lower just because you strip him of his fruits. He still has the same strength, speed and haki feats Luffy will eventually have to deal towards eos.


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## Dunno (Jan 7, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> So either katakuri loses his cool or BB learns FS, otherwise he won't be hitting katakuri? I can agree to that, but I don't see either two happening here.


Why wouldn't Teach already know FS? Why would he need it? Teach is a Yonkou. If he was unable to tag Yonkou FMs, then he would have been beaten easily. G4 Luffy is slow, Katakuri is slow. Top tiers don't need to show that they can keep up with slugs for us to know that they can keep up with slugs.

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## DA hawk (Jan 7, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Why wouldn't Teach already know FS? Why would he need it? Teach is a Yonkou. If he was unable to tag Yonkou FMs, then he would have been beaten easily. G4 Luffy is slow, Katakuri is slow. Top tiers don't need to show that they can keep up with slugs for us to know that they can keep up with slugs.


Rubbish! You're acting like 2 DF user Teach is the same as DF-less teach. The yonko teach is the one with stats+Yami+Gura. That's the top tier! This DF-less version of teach will get mauled to death by the yonko version of teach. You can't brush his severe handicap aside like that. No fucking way!

Let me use your argument in other aspects.
Akainu without his DF has the same lethality and AOE because "he's a fleet admiral".
Kizaru without his fruit has the same speed because "he's an admiral".
WB without his fruit has the same DC because "he's a yonko".

Utter nonsense, and you're being stubborn about it when it's clear as day!


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## Gledania (Jan 7, 2019)

To bad Erkan is not here anymore. Dude believe he have equal or superior stat to WB......


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## TheWiggian (Jan 7, 2019)

Gledania said:


> To bad Erkan is not here anymore. Dude believe he have equal or superior stat to WB......



No Erkan claimed that Teach is physically superior to WB which he backs up with a anime filler gif:





Look at his ridiculous shit:

...
Millennium Forums
-Base-Teach-runs-the-Admiral-gauntlet
￼
Iam glad he is banned everywhere. What a shitty troll.


Back to topic:

Blackbeard loses after Doffy if you give him the benefit of a doubt that he outlasts his awakening, string spam. He's not passing Katakuri without his DFs though.

As previously mentioned there are no counter-arguments from his supporters how he will deal with future sight, mochi-haki-awakening combination except "he is a yonkou", yes but he wouldn't be a Yonkou without his DF's since he is no Shanks or Mihawk.

Will his Haki pool be enough to defend against 10 hours + spam? I seriously doubt it.


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## MYJC (Jan 7, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> Rubbish! You're acting like 2 DF user Teach is the same as DF-less teach. The yonko teach is the one with stats+Yami+Gura. That's the top tier! This DF-less version of teach will get mauled to death by the yonko version of teach. You can't brush his severe handicap aside like that. No fucking way!
> 
> Let me use your argument in other aspects.
> Akainu without his DF has the same lethality and AOE because "he's a fleet admiral".
> ...



Yeah, looking at some of the posts in here I wonder why Teach even bothered waiting until he stole the Yami fruit to go after WB.

He should've just walked up to Whitebeard and punched his lights out if he's that strong in base.


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## Shinthia (Jan 7, 2019)

MYJC said:


> Yeah, looking at some of the posts in here I wonder why Teach even bothered waiting until he stole the Yami fruit to go after WB.
> 
> He should've just walked up to Whitebeard and punched his lights out if he's that strong in base.


Yea lets compare fodder Kata & DD (compared to Yonkou) to the strongest Yonkou/Man WB. Nothing seems wrong there.
Also forget that to do that, on top of being stronger than strongest man in OP verse in 1v1 he had to deal with Marco & co. too.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 7, 2019)

Still curious how Teach goes from getting his ass raped by Whitebeard on his deathbed to being some Garp-level slugger. I'll wait.


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## Dunno (Jan 7, 2019)

DA hawk said:


> Rubbish! You're acting like 2 DF user Teach is the same as DF-less teach. The yonko teach is the one with stats+Yami+Gura. That's the top tier! This DF-less version of teach will get mauled to death by the yonko version of teach. You can't brush his severe handicap aside like that. No fucking way!
> 
> Let me use your argument in other aspects.
> Akainu without his DF has the same lethality and AOE because "he's a fleet admiral".
> ...



I have not suggested anything even close to the idea that Teach would be top tier without his DFs, or that he wouldn't lose a huge amount of power by losing them. To be Yonkou level, Teach obviously needs his DFs. This should be obvious enough that I shouldn't even have to state this. Yonkou Teach would get mauled by Teach. The thing is that Katakuri would also get mauled by Teach, just like Luffy got mauled by Kaido.

Your are not using my arguments at all in your examples. You are using some arguments that I have not even come close to insinuating. Akainu would lose lethality, but he would not lose speed. WB would lose DC, but he would not lose speed. Kizaru would lose speed. Teach would not lose speed. I'm talking about speed and CoO, which Blackbeard would retain after losing his DFs. I have not said that his DC or the strength of his attacks would remain the same. If current BB can keep up with Katakuri's speed and CoO, then DF-less Katakuri can do so as well.



TheWiggian said:


> Blackbeard loses after Doffy if you give him the benefit of a doubt that he outlasts his awakening, string spam. He's not passing Katakuri without his DFs though.
> 
> As previously mentioned there are no counter-arguments from his supporters how he will deal with future sight, mochi-haki-awakening combination except "he is a yonkou", yes but he wouldn't be a Yonkou without his DF's since he is no Shanks or Mihawk.
> 
> Will his Haki pool be enough to defend against 10 hours + spam? I seriously doubt it.



The thing is that Katakuri's speed and CoO is anything special in OP. Therefore, Teach doesn't need anything special to deal with it, just like he doesn't need anything special to deal with Lucci's Rokushiki or Jinbei's karate. There is no feat that puts post-TS Teach below Katakuri in speed, which is why there is no reason to give Katakuri the benefit of the doubt when he's way weaker overall. 

Luffy was able to go toe to toe with Katakuri but wasn't able to do jack shit to Kaido. Teach does not need to be even close to Yonkou level to be able to compete with Katakuri. He doesn't need to be Shanks or Mihawk level to do so. He simply needs to be able to give Shanks or Mihawk a low diff fight and he's good to go. 



MYJC said:


> Yeah, looking at some of the posts in here I wonder why Teach even bothered waiting until he stole the Yami fruit to go after WB.
> 
> He should've just walked up to Whitebeard and punched his lights out if he's that strong in base.



Are you implying that being able to fight Katakuri and have a chance of winning equals being stronger than Whitebeard? Is Katakuri stronger than Whitebeard? 



King Itachi said:


> Still curious how Teach goes from getting his ass raped by Whitebeard on his deathbed to being some Garp-level slugger. I'll wait.



Are you implying that you need to be a Garp level slugger to be able to fight Katakuri? Is Katakuri as strong as Garp?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Jan 7, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Are you implying that you need to be a Garp level slugger to be able to fight Katakuri? Is Katakuri as strong as Garp?



It was a joke. However, I do question the pedestal that he's put on when there are claims that he can easily defeat two individuals he would have trouble connecting hits with (if he can even touch them at all). Assuming he did connect the hits, where are his feats that enable him to take either of them down? What put Teach on the map is Gura and Yami: two things that give him the ability to demolish either Katakuri or Doflamingo without question. As for his ability to tank hits, something called no-limit fallacy exists, and I have more reason to believe that the lack of Yami boosting his durability/endurance wouldn't outweigh being hit by attack after attack when landing very few of his own due to range disadvantage. Haki can only do so much when it's finite, and I doubt Teach has the highest caliber or control over Haki like the strongest characters. That leaves me wondering how he stands any chance against them.

Why would Teach all of a sudden put such emphasis on his physical abilities after acquiring two of the strongest fruits? Is it because he was sitting on his ass for a few decades? The point was that he reached his peak and needed to acquire power from different sources.

Power inflation is not an argument, as it doesn't warrant stat boosts across the board (especially when we're talking about someone with a fixation on his fruit abilities and had the time to presumably refine his physical abilities over decades). It's not like Teach is weak in these areas, but it makes no sense for him to be around the same level as the best like Shanks or Mihawk. Logically, he shouldn't be anywhere near them. Ultimately, Teach is not gaining much from us extrapolating his physical growth because there's likely not a time outside of seastone that his abilities will be deactivated. It's one thing to assume that characters (even with fruit abiltities) like Luffy would have to get boosts and stats rather frequently because he's still a brawler that relies on his physical ability. As a character, he's growing just like Teach, but they have different types of power and should be viewed with that in mind.

I have no reason to think Teach's physical stats peaked very much above what had been shown before the timeskip.


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## DA hawk (Jan 7, 2019)

Dunno said:


> *I have not suggested anything even close to the idea that Teach would be top tier without his DFs,* or that he wouldn't lose a huge amount of power by losing them. To be Yonkou level, Teach obviously needs his DFs. This should be obvious enough that I shouldn't even have to state this. Yonkou Teach would get mauled by Teach. The thing is that Katakuri would also get mauled by Teach, just like Luffy got mauled by Kaido.
> 
> Your are not using my arguments at all in your examples. You are using some arguments that I have not even come close to insinuating. Akainu would lose lethality, but he would not lose speed. WB would lose DC, but he would not lose speed. Kizaru would lose speed. Teach would not lose speed. I'm talking about speed and CoO, which Blackbeard would retain after losing his DFs. I have not said that his DC or the strength of his attacks would remain the same. If current BB can keep up with Katakuri's speed and CoO, then DF-less Katakuri can do so as well.


Bolded. That's exactly what you said though. "He's a yonkou" as an argument for base teach implies exactly that.
BB's speed and CoO won't drop by becoming fruitless, true enough. But He really doesn't have the speed/CoO feats to suggest he can tag katakuri with either of them. Katakuri is faster, and has a better CoO.
Exactly, kizaru would lose speed because he's shown to use his fruit rather than stats when it comes to speed. Same way Yonkou teach is able to tag katakuri cause he has the yami yami no mi. Not his non-existint speed feats or CoO feats. Claim he has either and you'll need to prove it. And no, being a yonkou isn't an argument because the yonkou teach can tag him with his fruit!


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## Steven (Jan 7, 2019)

Yonkous are nigh equal.

If Kaido can stomp G4 Ruffy-Tiers so can BB.A CoA Punch or a Haki Shockwave should seal the deal.

BB is physical strong as fuck

Reactions: Like 1


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## CaptainCommander (Jan 7, 2019)

Wow pretty long thread when the gist of it is.

Scenario one: based on feats BB is X tier without DFs

Scenario two: screw feats and logic. No way is fruitless BB losing to first mates because obviously he's already Yonko level and can do everything they can do and more before he was a considered a Yonko.

Are ya'll serious?


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## TheWiggian (Jan 7, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The thing is that Katakuri's speed and CoO is anything special in OP.



His CoO was highlighted as something special which only a few characters in the whole world are capable of using. Combined with his fruit, he is deadly and especially hard to deal with as shown against the MC.

Teach was never shown to battle against a CoO user and already had trouble to hit people without Haki, relying on his Kurouzu to pull fast and agile character's as shown against Luffy and Ace because he had no other way of catching them and overpowering said character's with his superior physique.



Dunno said:


> Therefore, Teach doesn't need anything special to deal with it, just like he doesn't need anything special to deal with Lucci's Rokushiki or Jinbei's karate.



Comparing Katakuri to pre TS Lucci is a joke of an argument because they're world's apart in the physical department. Also iam pretty sure that Jinbei's karate is able to affect all sort of opponents, starting with normal people, character's with haki and DF power's to the point of even damaging the real body of logias.

And as shown recently he was even able knock a Yonkou off her feet. So more of a argument for me.



Dunno said:


> There is no feat that puts post-TS Teach below Katakuri in speed, which is why there is no reason to give Katakuri the benefit of the doubt when he's way weaker overall.



There is also no feat of Teach being as fast as Katakuri or even faster than the latter post TS.

Knowing his feats from pre TS and his of combat abilities and tactics  it's safe to assume that even post TS he doesn't come anywhere close to G4/Katakuri's speed feats.



Dunno said:


> Luffy was able to go toe to toe with Katakuri but wasn't able to do jack shit to Kaido. Teach does not need to be even close to Yonkou level to be able to compete with Katakuri. He doesn't need to be Shanks or Mihawk level to do so. He simply needs to be able to give Shanks or Mihawk a low diff fight and he's good to go.



So what exactly is your argument here?


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