# Greek strike protesters burn German flag, chant 'Nazis Out'



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 7, 2012)

> *Greek strike protesters burn German flag, chant 'Nazis Out'*
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQ7spzPi8M[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 7, 2012)

Germany is covering for their fuck-ups, ungrateful shits. They were the weak link in the EU, and everyone else had to cover for their slack.


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## CrazyMoronX (Feb 7, 2012)

Damn Nazis. 

You can't force your politics on Zeus.


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## Megaharrison (Feb 7, 2012)

Germans are the only one holding the EU together by this point. Really shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.

That being said, every German is secretly a Nazi, so the Greeks have a point.


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## Saufsoldat (Feb 7, 2012)

Less flag-burning, more vorking for minimum vage vissout healscare or retirement, Schweinehund! Arbeit macht frei!


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## Raidoton (Feb 7, 2012)

Their behavior is totally not nazi-like


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## Elim Rawne (Feb 7, 2012)

Germans should burn a flag of Greece and chant " ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) out"


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## T4R0K (Feb 7, 2012)

LOOOOOOOL !!! OK, th?at's nice southern European attitude ! Even when you know YOU fucked up, blame it on someone else !! HAHAHAHA !!

Sauf, is there still that funny T?rk impersonnating every immigrant identity ? Did he (or someone else) made a funny on Greece ? Stefan Raab ? Bully ? Jemand !?


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## Distance (Feb 7, 2012)

Nazis? Really? I mean really? Oh well, a bunch of angry people burning flags, so what more can you expect.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Feb 7, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Germany is covering for their fuck-ups, ungrateful shits. They were the weak link in the EU, and everyone else had to cover for their slack.



Heh, German leaders turned a blind eye to Greece and other EU counties living beyond their means when they were setting the agenda for economic policy and trade.

It was also Germany and France who allowed Greece to join the EU open armed despite the reservations from other EU nations.


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## Federer (Feb 7, 2012)

Lazy bums.

Instead of striking, they better start working.


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## Xyloxi (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, that isn't very tasteful of them.


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## MrChubz (Feb 7, 2012)

Why is the EU still putting up with Greece?


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## Patchouli (Feb 7, 2012)

Now that's just ungrateful.


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## Pilaf (Feb 7, 2012)

Shoot nazis, not dope.


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## ExoSkel (Feb 7, 2012)

Ugh, Greeks... seriously, the EU exit is right there. RIGHT THERE.

Ever seen dogs that bites the hand that feeds them? They are kicked out of the house or taken and euthanized.

Germany can always "euthanize" greece and forget it never happened.

Seriously, if the entire Europe is going to blame Germany, they might as well turn into another second Nazi regime and fuck over Europe all over again.


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## Talon. (Feb 7, 2012)

Its cool to see more people protesting against something they dont agree with, but cmon, Greece. Get it together. They're just misguided. And kinda lazy.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 7, 2012)

T4R0K said:


> LOOOOOOOL !!! OK, th?at's nice southern European attitude ! Even when you know YOU fucked up, blame it on someone else !! HAHAHAHA !!
> 
> Sauf, is there still that funny T?rk impersonnating every immigrant identity ? Did he (or someone else) made a funny on Greece ? Stefan Raab ? Bully ? Jemand !?



Southern Europeans weren't so bad when they were spending like mad to buy Northern Europeans products and shit.


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## Syed (Feb 7, 2012)

Classy Greek protesters. >_>


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## steveht93 (Feb 7, 2012)

People of greece should chill out. They are the last people who should be talking. And just calling the Germans nazis,Really? Greece needs to chill.


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## Kotoamatsukami (Feb 7, 2012)

Megaharrison said:


> Germans are the only one holding the EU together by this point. Really shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.
> 
> *That being said, every German is secretly a Nazi, so the Greeks have a point.*



So you are trying to be racist now? I don?t think that is funny, Germans suffer/suffered as well from the Nazis. Just because you are an Israeli doesn?t give you the right to discriminate the population of Germany like that, especially not as a moderator. If you dont count that as flaming/spam/off-topic and silence me like in the other thread, I?d like a statement and an apology from you.


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## T4R0K (Feb 7, 2012)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> Southern Europeans weren't so bad when they were spending like mad to buy Northern Europeans products and shit.



Well, you should be aware of our common well-known bad faith : we can't take responsibility for our bullshit, from one side of the mediterranean sea to the other. And that includes France.


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## Megaharrison (Feb 7, 2012)

Kotoamatsukami said:


> So you are trying to be racist now? I don?t think that is funny, Germans suffer/suffered as well from the Nazis. Just because you are an Israeli doesn?t give you the right to discriminate the population of Germany like that, especially not as a moderator. If you dont count that as flaming/spam/off-topic and silence me like in the other thread, I?d like a statement and an apology from you.


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## josh101 (Feb 7, 2012)

^ did u ban him for that?


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## Megaharrison (Feb 7, 2012)

josh101 said:


> ^ did u ban him for that?



No that was for consistent flaming/spam in another thread even when being told not to.


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## Keile (Feb 7, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Germany is covering for their fuck-ups, ungrateful shits. They were the weak link in the EU, and everyone else had to cover for their slack.



Perhaps the Greek people are happy with their welfare state and don't care about European and world markets in general? Or the future of the EU specifically?

When did they ever get the chance to vote on any of what is happening in their own country? It seems like unelected bureaucrats from Germany and France have more of a say in Greek economic policy than the Greek people.


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## Seto Kaiba (Feb 7, 2012)

Keile said:


> Perhaps the Greek people are happy with their welfare state and don't care about European markets in general?



Germany is a welfare state...


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## Keile (Feb 7, 2012)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Germany is a welfare state...



What is your point? Can Germany and Greece not both be welfare states? Did I say Germany is NOT a welfare state? ( far less so in practice than Greece, I might add).


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## Kira U. Masaki (Feb 7, 2012)

Greece is a decrepit old country, Athens is dirty as hell, (literally, family visited the place last year) and they only survive on the laurels of what happened over 2000 years ago when the area was fount of knowledge and culture. If I was Germany I would have no problem saying deal with your own mess.


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## The Space Cowboy (Feb 7, 2012)

Don't these people know about Godwin's law?

Once you resort to associating your ideological or rhetorical opponents with Nazism or Hitler, you pretty much cede whatever argument it was that you were having.


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## Kira U. Masaki (Feb 7, 2012)

The Space Cowboy said:


> Don't these people know about Godwin's law?
> 
> Once you resort to associating your ideological or rhetorical opponents with Nazism or Hitler, you pretty much cede whatever argument it was that you were having.



Unfortunately the days of Aristotle and the other great Greek Thinkers/Debaters/Philosophers has long been over. This is about what you should expect from Greece these days.


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## Saufsoldat (Feb 8, 2012)

Keile said:


> Perhaps the Greek people are happy with their welfare state and don't care about European and world markets in general? Or the future of the EU specifically?
> 
> *When did they ever get the chance to vote on any of what is happening in their own country?* It seems like unelected bureaucrats from Germany and France have more of a say in Greek economic policy than the Greek people.



For the last time in 2009 and every 4 years before that. You get what you elect. If you elect people who will spend money you don't have even though you're already up to your neck in dept, then you might sooner or later have to face the consequences. Greece is a big boy, he won't get away with a slap on the wrist, he's going to repay his debt.


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## Roman (Feb 8, 2012)

Typical of Greek peaceful protests to end up in violence. The common people and the police have never been on really good terms (undertandibly on some occasions). But calling Germany out as Nazis? That's an exaggerated claim. They're trying to cover up for Greece and they feel like they're being oppressed. If it wasn't for them, they'd be repaying the debt on their own, bankrupt as they were and wages much lower than what is being suggested in the article.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Southern europe once again proves it's inferiority to the Northern parts of europe.

Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland lets work things out  !!! The soon to be independant scots can join us as well.

And the brits if they feel like it, they can't hate the hand the feeds them the best bacon in the world !


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## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Feb 8, 2012)

Greece should be kicked out of EU. This is better for all.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Southern europe once again proves it's inferiority to the Northern parts of europe.
> 
> Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland lets work things out  !!! The soon to be independant scots can join us as well.
> 
> And the brits if they feel like it, they can't hate the hand the feeds them the best bacon in the world !



You shouldn't judge the entire Southern Europe on Greek protests.


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## Stelios (Feb 8, 2012)

Comments from manga geeks  about an entire nation when they know jack shit about the situation well it's pathetic. I only wish that you do not have to resort to protests like that in the near future in your country.  
 If you can't really read between the lines and can't see or understand what's been played on average citizens back well who am I to open your eyes?

The article post here by OP got it right by the way.You should read it more carefully.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> You shouldn't judge the entire Southern Europe on Greek protests.



I dont, i blame the Italians for electing corrupt officials.
I blame the greeks for electing corrupt officials and shitty political priorities like wasting a shitload of cash building up an army.

Southern europe is shitty europe, everything is just a notch worse down there, its a fact.

The fact that these stupid greek protesters complain about their shitty country being saved by Germany is just the last nail on the coffin.
Greece sucks and its because the people suck bigtime.


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## Nemesis (Feb 8, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> For the last time in 2009 and every 4 years before that. You get what you elect. If you elect people who will spend money you don't have even though you're already up to your neck in dept, then you might sooner or later have to face the consequences. Greece is a big boy, he won't get away with a slap on the wrist, he's going to repay his debt.



When you have what is basically a 2 party system where both sides are doing the same shit but with a different set of lies behind it then no you don't really have a choice in the matter.



> I blame the greeks for their childishness when handling their economy and their political priorities (LULS LETS INVEST IN GIANT ARMY)



Then maybe someone should put Turkey in her place, she has many hostile laws against Greece including those that have Casus Belli on Greece if she were to drill for gas and oil in her own waters.  Won't even allow Greece to extend her own sea waters to 12nm which is allowed under international law (which Turkey actually done on her coastline).

Also those calling Greeks lazy, Greeks work longer hours than any other western country.  Only nation that works longer than Greece is S.Korea.  Also those calling Germans as Nazis are the same extremists who turn up in every protest to disrupt and turn them violent and the police won't get them because any sign of people going against these extreme protesters then they run right into a campus where the Police don't follow (Due to issues that happened in the days of the Junta).  

The main issue with the debt is rested in the hands of the elite few.  Their own accounts in switzerland that they opened up by corrupt means actually totals more than the entire Greek debt.  If anyone in the EU had the balls to claim that and have those few charged for their corruption the debt could be erased over night.  But these laws and austerity don't touch them.  It touches the over worked while underpaid average person.  Hell it has come to the point parents are giving up their children because even though they work 8 to 12 hours a day they still can't afford basic necessities for 2 adults and 1 child.  And people still wonder why the protests.

Also in the past 6 months Greece actually ran a surplus so at least they are making money.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Nemesis said:


> When you have what is basically a 2 party system where both sides are doing the same shit but with a different set of lies behind it then no you don't really have a choice in the matter.



Greece is a democracy and the people created the parties that exists.
The people elected these men and the people is responsible.

And Lul at Greece needing a huge army, both nations are members of the greatest millitary alliance ever to exist in human history, aka allies.

And double luls at you claiming all the corrupt money should be taken back by the EU.
You most be greek because thats the attitude that makes a country fail.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> I dont, i blame the Italians for electing corrupt officials.
> I blame the greeks for electing corrupt officials and shitty political priorities like wasting a shitload of cash building up an army.
> 
> Southern europe is shitty europe, everything is just a notch worse down there, its a fact.
> ...



In the case of Italy, the Italians of this forum explained to us, why a man like Berlusconi can be elected. To sum it, Berlusconi was the best option left to the Italian or I should say the less bad option for the Italian. 

In the case of Greece, I don't know the cost of living there but if it's not so different than my country, I can understand their anger to see their minimum wage reduced to 751 euros. However, burn a flag is not acceptable. Greece must be reformed in order to have a balanced budget and give to it citizens, the possibility to have a decent life. This is not only for Greece but for a lot of countries in Europe. Greek shouldn't only be forced for more austerity, we, European should also try to promote growth in this country, for the interest of all of us. the EU must invest in Greece and I think the europarl support the idea.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> In the case of Italy, the Italians of this forum explained to us, why a man like Berlusconi can be elected. To sum it, Berlusconi was the best option left to the Italian or I should say the less bad option for the Italian. .



They made him the last option.
They chose the direction from 1945 and onwards.

If you can't choose someone who's not a dictator / kleptomaniac its your duty as a citizen to pick up arms and expel the corruption.

So once again, Southern Europe is shitty europe


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## Nemesis (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Greece is a democracy and the people created the parties that exists.
> The people elected these men and the people is responsible.
> 
> And Lul at Greece needing a huge army, both nations are members of the greatest millitary alliance ever to exist in human history, aka allies.
> ...



Allies on paper but when you listen to the words of Turkish leaders, their military who ignore Greek airspace and violate it every day of the year.  If you think Greece can trust nato or the US then maybe you should remember that when Turkey invaded Cyprus neither US nor UK lifted a finger to stop them Even though UK had a treaty with Cyprus to help repel foreign attacks.

NATO has done nothing to pull Turkey back from the hostile retoric and bullying of other NATO members in the region.

Greece has already been through a few civil wars and uprisings against the rulers.  Last one being in the 1970s agains the Junta who were imposed and backed by the US.

Again yes Greece is a democracy but like in the US where you have only a Repub/Democrat choice in Greece you basically have to choose between PASOK or New Democracy.  The other 2 semi main parties are either full out facist or outright communists which no one in their right mind would vote for.

And what is wrong with taken money stolen from the Greek people held by a few other Greek people in a bank account in another country to help pay off a debt.  If the money was not stolen and spent the way it should have been then the debt wouldn't even be near as bad as it is.

Instead it seems you want people who are already working 12 hours a day (Remember Greeks work the most hours in Europe already) on minimum wage which no one can make a real living of to work upto 15-16 hours a day on less money just so you can feel better.


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## Roman (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> They made him the last option.
> They chose the direction from 1945 and onwards.
> 
> If you can't choose someone who's not a dictator / kleptomaniac its your duty as a citizen to pick up arms and expel the corruption.
> ...





You don't get it. It's not that we chose the dictators to come to power. As Nemesis said, when you have a two party system who do the same exact thing but put up a different story about what they do, you're not exactly given much of a choice. 

Also understand that in most of southern Europe, Italy in particular, it's not the citizen who elects the prime minister, but the parliament, whose individuals are in fact elected by the citizens. But when you consider that there are people like  representing individual states, again, you're only left with choosing the lesser of two evils. 

Such was the case with Berlusconi, who despite his sex addiction and mafia connections, listed in descending order of importance, managed to keep Italy one of the more stable countries in Europe.

In the case of Greece, while they need to understand that they are fortunate that the EU is covering for them, particularly Germany and France, they aren't given any better options than Italy when it comes to their govt, which is where their anger stems from. I don't agree with their protest methods, but I agree with their motivation for doing so. The same thing happens in Sicily all the time. People get pissed off for a good reason, but strikes only end up making things worse.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

I've seen how the average greek in a sweatshop works and the intensity reminds me of my own job.
Which is basically 50/50 between slack and work, so dont give me that 12 hours bullshit when you have time to clip your toenails at your job its not all that hard.

*If they werent so lazy they would try to stop the corruption that has destroyed their country instead of blaming the nation keeping them alive.*


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## Stelios (Feb 8, 2012)

Greeks and Romans were two bright suns in the history of Europe. They are the first to go down.



Mathias124 said:


> I've seen how the average greek in a sweatshop works and the intensity reminds me of my own job.
> Which is basically 50/50 between slack and work, so dont give me that 12 hours bullshit when you have time to clip your toenails at your job its not all that hard.
> 
> *If they werent so lazy they would try to stop the corruption that has destroyed their country instead of blaming the nation keeping them alive.*



Mathias obviously you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Stfu


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> You don't get it. It's not that we chose the dictators to come to power. As Nemesis said, when you have a two party system who do the same exact thing but put up a different story about what they do, you're not exactly given much of a choice.  .



Democracy.

*If your democracy doesnt work fight for it or shut up*, lazy greek


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

mstelios;42018029
Mathias obviously you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Stfu[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> So its not german money that saved greece from defaulting??
> My oh my have i missed something.
> 
> Its not lazy to sit back and complain instead of trying to fix things?
> ...


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## Roman (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Democracy.
> 
> *If your democracy doesnt work fight for it or shut up*, lazy greek



Are you from the US? And no, I'm not Greek, I'm Italian.


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## Stelios (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> So its not german money that saved greece from defaulting??
> My oh my have i missed something.
> 
> Its not lazy to sit back and complain instead of trying to fix things?



Really protesting is sit back and relaxing? You are so ignorant that I d bash your head on the fucking wall if you were in front of me. No it's not german money that saved greece from defaulting. In fact they are funds that Germany got with ~ 1-3% interest rate and "sold" them to Greece with sky high Interest.  Actually from all the euro crisis Germany's economy is blooming. It's not like they did a fucking errant to save a country. They are just filling up their pockets with more Euros.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

mstelios said:


> Really protesting is sit back and relaxing? You are so ignorant that I d bash your head on the fucking wall if you were in front of me. No it's not german money that saved greece from defaulting. In fact they are funds that Germany got with ~ 1-3% interest rate and "sold" them to Greece with sky high Interest.  Actually from all the euro crisis Germany's economy is blooming. It's not like they did a fucking errant to save a country. They are just filling up their pockets with more Euros.



Funds Germany received because of their strong economy which they then decided to give to Greece.

aka money german was able to attain for greece. aka german money

The protests try throw away all greek responsibility thats the same as leaning back and doing nothing to me.
If they were protesting against corruption it would be doing something, but burning german flags?? luls

*I doubt you could bash my head on a fucking wall, you're too lazy.*


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> Are you from the US? And no, I'm not Greek, I'm Italian.



Danish, no corruption 9 major parties to choose from.

A minister spoke with a career criminal a few months ago, not even cash involved just a favor.
He got booted out in days. 

Watch and learn southern europe, watch and learn


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> They made him the last option.
> They chose the direction from 1945 and onwards.
> 
> If you can't choose someone who's not a dictator / kleptomaniac its your duty as a citizen to pick up arms and expel the corruption.
> ...



You exaggerating. Calling Berlusconi a dictator is exaggerating. You trolling of what ?

If they couldn't chose someone else, it's because the other were even worse to manage the country. Romano Prodi was in charge of the country from 2006 to 2008 but he resigned because he lost a vote confidence in the Senate. And in the same year, in election, the party of Berlusconi won the election. 
If Berlusconi won the election, it's because, unfortunate for the Italians, he is seen as (and maybe he was) the best option left.

Pick up arms and expel the corruption ??? It's easy to say that when you are not in the country and have to face the mafia and all that shit. Plus, if they "pick up arms and expel the corruption" like you said, how it make them different than the "these stupid greek protesters" you cited ???

What I try to say is that it's not as easy as it look like. We judge a situation from our country without really know what going on in these countries. In my opinion, it's better to try to bring solutions to southern Europe rather than blame them and express our pride to be in the elite of Northern Europe countries. It's unproductive and improve the feeling that there is two Europes when in fact these division was created by the markets. 
It's like when Americans analysts divided Europe in two pieces, the "new Europe" and the "old Europe". Basely those who support American policy non Iraq and those who doesn't.... a good way to create division in European and oppose Europeans.

Now It's Southern Europe vs Northern Europe....

Of course, I don't support those protesters in Greece that burned German flags and and compare Germany to nazis but but we should make the effort to understand the angers of Greek that were abused by their governments and now feel dictated from abroad with nothing more than more austerity (once again).  

I also want to remind that in Southern Europe, Italy is one of the biggest economy of Europe.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> You exaggerating. Calling Berlusconi a dictator is exaggerating. You trolling of what ?
> 
> If they couldn't chose someone else, it's because the other were even worse to manage the country. Romano Prodi was in charge of the country from 2006 to 2008 but he resigned because he lost a vote confidence in the Senate. And in the same year, in election, the party of Berlusconi won the election.
> If Berlusconi won the election, it's because, unfortunate for the Italians, he is seen as (and maybe he was) the best option left.
> ...



Biggest economy is worth shit if every citizen produces half as much as a smaller nation's citizen does. Good job, you have territory and citizens but cant manage them..

Why dont you just italians and Greeks Sheeple? thats basically what you're saying, they're sheeps being herded by their politicians.

If you cant elect prober leaders its your own people's fault, end of discussion.

edit: the arguments i hear from southern europeans is only making me view southern europeans as even lazier.
Sheeple is the prober definition for greeks and italians it would seem


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## Stelios (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Funds Germany received because of their strong economy which they then decided to give to Greece.
> 
> aka money german was able to attain for greece. aka german money
> 
> ...



The protests are not to throw away Greek responsibility we always payed our debts. Once again this is against our government who's a major fuck up. And yes the government since 1975 has been buying the votes by establishing "customer" relationships with 1/3 of the voters aka the public servants and the business society. If I had to raise my finger (the middle one) I would point it to America first of all because in reality they are the ones that govern Greece for many decades now.
 It's all over the internet go read about it since you care enough to insult Italy and Greece but if you don't and you are just posting here out of complex and because you get bullied in real life just ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) off.
  And if you are going to quote me on your signature at least use a sentence that I used and not your false conclusion based on your poor judgement.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

mstelios said:


> The protests are not to throw away Greek responsibility we always payed our debts. Once again this is against our government who's a major fuck up. And yes the government since 1975 has been buying the votes by establishing "customer" relationships with 1/3 of the voters aka the public servants and the business society. If I had to raise my finger (the middle one) I would point it to America first of all because in reality they are the ones that govern Greece for many decades now.
> It's all over the internet go read about it since you care enough to insult Italy and Greece but if you don't and you are just posting here out of complex and because you get bullied in real life just ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) off.
> And if you are going to quote me on your signature at least use a sentence that I used and not your false conclusion based on your poor judgement.



You said it no matter how you twist and turn your brain, you said it wasnt german money.

Burning german flags is disrespectful and shows how stupid the populace is, if anything they should be having sex with german flags.

and last but not least, luls at threatening over the internets

like the rest of your people you're a sheep being herded, now you're blaming the USA? fuck off


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## Stelios (Feb 8, 2012)

Posted By Mathias124

Newton couldn't have done all that without food.
So the farmer is the smartest man after all..
------------------------------------------------

Lok Ok Einstein whatever you say.


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## CetLot (Feb 8, 2012)

steveht93 said:


> People of greece should chill out. They are the last people who should be talking. And just calling the Germans nazis,Really? Greece needs to chill.



Why don't you check this out my friend before you judge a whole nation.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

mstelios said:


> Posted By Mathias124
> 
> Newton couldn't have done all that without food.
> So the farmer is the smartest man after all..
> ...



Genius, a* greek too lazy *to read the entire page of the post humiliates himself :lol


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## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm deeply disgusted by the amounts of racism and prejudice against southern europe as a whole in this thread.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> I'm deeply disgusted by the amounts of racism and prejudice against southern europe as a whole in this thread.



You know that all the southern europeans i debated basically called themselves sheep who cant handle democracy right?

Not our fault we elect bad guys, they control us :whine


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## MF NaruSimpson (Feb 8, 2012)

i don't see why godwin law applies to germans, they actually were the nazis.  it's fair game


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## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> You know that all the southern europeans i debated basically called themselves sheep who cant handle democracy right?
> 
> Not our fault we elect bad guys, they control us :whine



And why is this a reason for you to be prejudiced against the whole of southern europe? That's what _they _think/say. You are your own person, or are you telling me you can't think for yourself?


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> And why is this a reason for you to be prejudiced against the whole of southern europe? That's what _they _think/say. You are your own person, or are you telling me you can't think for yourself?



Because the whole of southern europe allows shit that wouldnt go in the north?
Which then hurts the north, which in turn has me asking why am i in the same group as these people who allow corruption?

Dont really understand how thinking for myself came on the table but hokay.


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## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Because the whole of southern europe allows shit that wouldnt go in the north?
> Which then hurts the north, which in turn has me asking why am i in the same group as these people who allow corruption?
> 
> Dont really understand how thinking for myself came on the table but hokay.



Because you used what others said/admitted in order to justify your prejudiced tendencies.
Also, did you ever think that there must be some good reasons that some things happen the way they do in southern europe countries? Do some research before you open your ignorant mouth, please.

For example, do you really believe that Germany, suddenly after the economical destruction it went through during world war, became one of the biggest economical( and in consequense political) forces in europe only thanks to its own effort? Wrong. Germany's national debt towards USA was erased by  the later and Germany still hasnt given war refunds to other european countries.

But I won't discuss further with you, this ignorant prejudice makes me sick.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> Because you used what others said/admitted in order to justify your prejudiced tendencies.
> Also, did you ever think that there must be some good reasons that some things happen the way they do in southern europe countries? Do some research before you open your ignorant mouth, please.
> 
> For example, do you really believe that Germany, suddenly after the economical destruction it went through during world war, became one of the biggest economical( and in consequense political) forces in europe only thanks to its own effort? Wrong. Germany's national debt towards USA was erased by  the later and Germany still hasnt given war refunds to other european countries.
> ...



First claiming i cant think for myself because i listen and read to others.

Then tells me to go read what others have said/written and change my mind.

The logic is strong in this one.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Biggest economy is worth shit if every citizen produces half as much as a smaller nation's citizen does. Good job, you have territory and citizens but cant manage them..



It's still a major economy in the EU, whatever you critics on Southern Europe, they are art of the big player of European economy. You can critics them for their economic policy in the last decade but brand them as shitty Europe is ignoring the fact that they are one of the biggest player in European economy. It's not only population, it's also the fact they have big business. 




> Why dont you just italians and Greeks Sheeple? thats basically what you're saying, they're sheeps being herded by their politicians.
> 
> If you cant elect prober leaders its your own people's fault, end of discussion.



?????? You don't understand that maybe the alternatives of Berlusconi was maybe worse than himself. It's like if the US have to choose between Sarah Palin or George W Bush.



> edit: the arguments i hear from southern europeans is only making me view southern europeans as even lazier.
> Sheeple is the prober definition for greeks and italians it would seem



I can understand that Geek look lazy to you because of this 24h strike but the Italians......there are not in the streets in a mass protest. Plus, the Draghi government wasn't lazy to apply austerity in his country.


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## Helios (Feb 8, 2012)

It is a mistake to judge the majority of the Greek people from such kind of an action.It was the same group of people that tried to invade the Parliament itself.They are extremists.The Greeks themselves do not approve of them,they are parasites.

Of course something like that would draw the attention of the Media.Besides the Media,and especially the german ones,where the first that contributed towards the direction of creating feelings of distrust,anger and perhaps even hate.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

BTW Mathias124, please, stop to talk about Southern European people like inferior people. You are not far for xenophobia with your comment and could be reported.


----------



## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> First claiming i cant think for myself because i listen and read to others.
> 
> Then tells me to go read what others have said/written and change my mind.
> 
> The logic is strong in this one.



Where exactly did I tell you to read what others said/wrote? Lol if that's what you understood then...
Reading comprehension fail, darla. 

Reading _opinions _and views of people on the matter on a debate thread isnt the same as researching/reading _facts_ that can't be changed, such as which debts were erased for example.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> Where exactly did I tell you to read what others said/wrote? Lol if that's what you understood then...
> Reading comprehension fail, darla.
> 
> Reading _opinions _and views of people on the matter on a debate thread isnt the same as researching/reading _facts_ that can't be changed, such as which debts were erased for example.



How am i supposed to research without reading?
Wasnt that research written by someone else? which means i read what someone else wrote.
Dumbass.

Southern europeans allow corruption. FACT.
My job is done


----------



## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> How am i supposed to research without reading?
> 
> Dumbass.
> 
> ...



Fact my ass. If you dont research the facts that led to this unequality(economically and power wise) then don't blurt the word "fact" so easily. It only serves to show how ignorant you are, my dear

Also by calling me a dumbass in order to cover up for your own comprehension fail, you aren't countering the point that's been made. Reading opinions is different to reading facts. 
 Facts are different to opinions, get that through your head or go check a dictionary if you're having difficulty with that. 

Here's again for the slow:
I never told you to make your own judgement by taking into consideration someone's opinion, I said to research facts and then form your aspect on the matter. But if you're so much opposed to reading, then go find a historian or expert on the matter and have them voice the facts out to you.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> Here's again for the slow:
> I never told you to make your own judgement by taking into consideration someone's opinion, I said to research facts and then form your aspect on the matter. But if you're so much opposed to reading, then go find a historian or expert on the matter, and have them voice the facts out to you.



Man is corrupt, votes for him anyhow and allows corruption.
thats southern europe allowing corruption

You're telling me to think for myself.
Then tells me to go ask another guy and have him form my new opinion.
I believe calling you a dumbass is fine.
Im out, have fun


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> How am i supposed to research without reading?
> 
> Dumbass.
> 
> ...



Mmmh, no,There are not laws in Southern Europe allow corruption  REAL FACT

Erase corruption is not easy. It's something that need to be fight and these countries need help to fight it.

But it's not the corruption that make Southern Europe in this situation. It's off topic.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Mmmh, no,There are not laws in Southern Europe allow corruption  REAL FACT



Do they vote for corrupt people yes or no?
answer is yes, they knowingly choose corrupt people, the greek guy and the italian guy both agreed to this

I cant help getting pissed when they burn german flags because of their own incompetence


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## Banhammer (Feb 8, 2012)

well they aren't wrong

The nazis were a lot more than just jew burners

Still not very classy though


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## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Man is corrupt, votes for him anyhow and allows corruption.
> thats southern europe allowing corruption
> 
> You're telling me to think for myself.
> ...



How you've managed to get so many replies to your posts with this marvelous level of intelligence you got there, beats me.

Btw, you dont anger me by calling me dumbass, you're only making me laugh at the tragic irony in this.

Think for yourself AFTER  having researched facts. Facts are not opinions passed down by someone, facts are things that have occured and are indepedent to any kinds of subjectivity.

And the only one who can form your own opinion is you. But opinions( the complete kind) are formed after inspecting facts( and not other opinions). Is this really that hard for you to understand? I doubt it is, you're just cornered in the wall without any valid point to counter mine and thus you result to insulting me and dodging the very clear point I've made in order to smoothen out your fail. But I wont hand it to you, good sir.

Here's, directly quoted out of the dictionary, for your likes:



> *fact   *
> noun
> 1.
> something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
> ...





> *opinion *[uh-pin-yuhn]
> 
> o?pin?ion
> noun
> ...


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Do they vote for corrupt people yes or no?
> answer is yes, they knowingly choose corrupt people.
> 
> I cant help getting pissed when they burn german flags because of their own incompetence



Do the alternative is uncorrupted ???

Like it was said, it's a minority (I suppose, the far left) that burn the German flag. I do understand you anger. I don't like it as well. And I hope the German would not overreact and give the pragmatic right reaction. 

Europe must find a solution to improve the situation in these countries. You bring corruption in the discussion. It's one of the problems Southern Europe face, it's not responsible for the crisis but it's still a problem. If there is a better politic model that would benefit for the Southern European, it should be proposed to them. This is reform.....what European countries need (not only in the South) and all countries must contribute. It's better than just blaming the others. We must have a constructive attitude.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

I researched by asking two people who knows the facts and asked them " did you guys in greece vote for corrupt fellas"
Both said yes.

Is it not a fact that corruption isn't as morally wrong in southern europe compared to the north?



I researched and it turns out i was right.
Is it a fact now?
I have two people from said country claiming corruption exists and they vote for corrupt fellas and i have an article from a reknown paper.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Do the alternative is uncorrupted ???



Just an excuse, if your democracy doesnt work you're obligated to fight for it.

If you havent fought for it you dont have any right to complain about the management of your country.
If you have to choose between two rotten eggs you smash the eggs and get a new chicken

edit:
 researched by asking two people who knows the facts (the greek guys who debated earlier) and they both said corruption amongst politicians is rampant.

Is it not a fact that corruption isn't as morally wrong in southern europe compared to the north?



I researched and it turns out i was right.
Is it a fact now?
I have two people from said country claiming corruption exists and they vote for corrupt fellas and i have an article from a reknown paper.


----------



## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> I researched by asking two people who knows the facts and asked them " did you guys in greece vote for corrupt fellas"
> Both said yes.
> 
> Is it not a fact that corruption isn't as morally wrong in southern europe compared to the north?
> ...



Thats not the kind of facts that you should be researching, dear. Every country has it's decent share of corruption, worldwide, especially in the political sector.

You're naive if you really believe that the main and sole reason that southern europe and Greece are in their current state is the corruption itself. Though I agree with you that it does play its role in the overall situation, for good or for bad, there are other and bigger factors that come to play in this game, such as external political motives, geographical situation etc.

If you cant comprehend what I mean with that last one, then I guess I'm right to believe that one can't have a decent and educated debate with your likes. Stop wasting everyone's time if the only "fact" you're here to lay on the table is that of the "corruption". Which, even if true, is still an opinion. Opinions can be accurate, this, however, doesn't make them a fact in the context I've demostrated above.(for the sake of precision)


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> Thats not the kind of facts that you should be researching, dear. Every country has it's decent share of corruption, worldwide, especially in the political sector.
> 
> You're naive if you really believe that the main and sole reason that southern europe and Greece are in their current state is the corruption itself. Though I agree with you that it does play its role in the overall situation, for good or for bad, there are other and bigger factors that come to play in this game, such as external political motives, geographical situation etc.
> 
> If you cant comprehend what I mean with that last one, then I guess I'm right to believe that one can't have a decent and educated debate with your likes. Stop wasting everyone's time if the only "fact" you're here to lay on the table is that of the "corruption". Which, even if true, is still an opinion. Opinions can be accurate, this, however, doesn't make them a fact in the context I've demostrated above.(for the sake of precision)



Where did i state the corruption was the sole reason? enlighten me, for someone who claims i have no reading comprehension you sure missed the target

I've been argueing that Greeks and southern europe in general allows corruption and to be frank i dont see why the northern states should bother with these people.

You were trying so fucking hard to be smart that you ended up being dumb as shit


----------



## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Where did i state the corruption was the sole reason? enlighten me, for someone who claims i have no reading comprehension you sure missed the target
> 
> *I've been argueing that Greeks and southern europe allows corruption and to be frank i dont see why the northern states should bother with these people.*
> 
> You were trying so fucking hard to be smart that you ended up being dumb as shit



You say you didn't state it was the sole reason and yet it's the only "fact" you have been bringing up to me in all of your past posts. If you have more points up your sleeve, then USE them.

Also to the bolded, how is that countering my claim? LOL fail. Please, get yourself checked at an expert or something, I think you have serious problems with basic comprehension. Also, bringing up an actual  variety of points and example of facts isn't trying to be smart, it's called functional attempt at debating, something you're obviously incapable of.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Just an excuse, if your democracy doesnt work you're obligated to fight for it.
> 
> If you havent fought for it you dont have any right to complain about the management of your country.
> If you have to choose between two rotten eggs you smash the eggs and get a new chicken



But if they do fight it, you superior Northern European would call them "lazy people" because they fight rather than working.....

But technically, the democracy worked. There are not fake elections. The problem is the people elected. If they lie to their citizens, the only option left is to protest or elect a new person. Unfortunately they don't have good politicians. They lied on their citizens by giving them what they need for a decent life without telling them that it was built on the country debt. It's something that not only happened in Southern Europe but in lot of countries that live with a huge debt. 
Because the main problem for these southern European countries in not corruption, it's *debt*. 
This crisis that involve all Europe is a good opportunity to see what's wrong in each country. Our economies and our politics are more connected than even before. It's in our interest that Southern Europe solve the debt problem but also invigorate growth. It's in our interest to all of us, that unemployment decrease there.


----------



## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> You say you didn't state it was the sole reason and yet it's the only "fact" you have been bringing up to me in all of your past posts. If you have more points up your sleeve, then USE them.



To me the corruption is more than enough justification as to why i dont want to be in a union with them.

Not my fault you're jumping to conclusions.

The bolded wasn't meant to refute any claim, i just told you what the debate was about because you obviously hadn't understood it yet.
Giving me shit about comprehension? you just failed to understand the debate, read my post wrong and then made an entire reply that made no sense


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But if they do fight it, you superior Northern European would call them "lazy people" because they fight rather than working.....



Excuses excuses excuses

They need to fix their corruption, bad governing = everything turns shitty, including your debt.


----------



## Drums (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> To me the corruption is more than enough justification as to why i dont want to be in a union with them.
> 
> Not my fault you're jumping to conclusions.
> 
> The bolded wasn't meant to refute any claim, i just told you what the debate was about because you obviously hadn't understood it yet.



I aint jumping to no conclusion, genius. If you come into a(obviously) debate thread and engage with me in a  discussion of why greeks and southern europe are in their current state, it's obvious enough that I have no interest in your _personal _opinion and _preference_ over not wanting Greece in the same union as your state. Honestly, I wouldnt even mind your blatant ignorance splurted all around in this thread if I felt that your overall judgement was spherical and complete(in which case I wouldnt even consider it prejudice), which, since you're only taking no more than the corruption factor into consideration, apparently is not.

With that said, I know what your debate is, I just find it immature and weak and I see no reason to treat it as a valid arguement, especially since there are other more influential factors that shape that country's path.

Also, I just said I know what the debate is, this doesnt refiute how much of an ignorant racist you are nor your inability to effectively counter any points made by me due to your lack of logic, which is why you negged me and are claiming that I dont know what this is about. Fail.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Excuses excuses excuses
> 
> They need to fix their corruption, bad governing = everything turns shitty, including your debt.



This is not excuses, I talking about your personal view on them. You call them lazy when they protest against more austerity and their government and at the same time, you saying they should protest against their corrupt politics. 

Why don't you just say their protest is not justified rather than call them "stupid lazy people" and call their countries "Shitty Europe". 
There are many different way to say exactly what you said without being disrespectful but you chose to be almost xenophobic. . 
You don't even tr to have a serious debate on issue since you use such words with Italians and Geeks of this forum. You just wanted to be rude and say how much you feel great to be Northern European and how shit Southern European are, the same way white supremacist talk about black people.....


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Feb 8, 2012)

Here in the south we have the stereotypical idea that the northern Europeans are a bunch of xenophobic racists, *Mathias124*, seriously man, is like you're trying your best to prove us right.


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## Shinigami Perv (Feb 8, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Greece is a democracy and the people created the parties that exists.
> The people elected these men and the people is responsible.


Look I give the Greeks plenty of blame in this. But you can't oversimplify the matter by ignoring entrenched interests like that. 



58% of my country wants a new party. 58%, and yet there isn't a single mention of it in the media. No discussion of it is allowed. You won't find many issues so conspicuously absent from a national political discussion. 

It would literally take a French Revolution style level of upheaval to curb the duopoly of political power, which is really just a one-party masquerade. 

Some democracies are democracies in name only. They're really just plutocracies that we call democracies to make the masses feel like they have some influence on government. I guess what I'm saying is, you can't dismiss Nemesis' claim so easily because it's not that simple.


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## Elim Rawne (Feb 8, 2012)

Apparently they're hardworking. If only they worked for a good goal like deposing the idiots at the helm instead of bitching about literally anyone and anything else. They just need a good overlord


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## Mathias124 (Feb 8, 2012)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> I wasn't expecting you to understand, after all you're from the northern part of Europe, the same place where the uncivilized barbarians came from to steal and kill the people from the superior and civilized south, i doubt your intelligence and manners changed much since then. :ho



At least you upped your game.


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## Rikudou (Feb 9, 2012)

The decision to keep the EU in the dark about it's true deficit by letting Goldman Sachs help them in covering it up is enough for me to consider ALL the governments since 2001 guilty.

Should the Greek people suffer for their leader's decisions? Preferably not, but they're not innocent. They elected those leaders, but most of all bear the responsibility of their OWN actions. It's widely known that Greeks did everything they could to avoid paying taxes.

Could this have been a pattern of behaviour caused by corrupting stimuli intentionally/unintentionally created by the lawgivers? Yes it might.

Does it makes them less guilty? No, not in my eyes.


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## kayanathera (Feb 9, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Because the whole of southern europe allows shit that wouldnt go in the north?
> Which then hurts the north, which in turn has me asking why am i in the same group as these people who allow corruption?
> 
> Dont really understand how thinking for myself came on the table but hokay.



Iceland-bankrupt,Ireland-bankrupt,UK-a fucking mess(good thing they can print otherwise they would have been a bigger Greece),Belgium-bankruptcy+dissolution  looming => YOU SIR FAIL!


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

lol narutards talking politics of my country  
You guys dont know shit...
The greek people work more than any other country in europe, yet there are posters here who dont have a fucking clue and are calling them lazy 
I know people whose wages have decreased 50 % in 6 months. Another fact is that the products in Greece are more expensive than the products in any other european country.
I recommend you discuss about fucking Narusaku or Naruhina rather than politics..
Also there is a reason why the german flag was burnt...


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## Roman (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> The greek people work more than any other country in europe, yet there are posters here who dont have a fucking clue and are calling them lazy



I'm actually going to quote my friend here, to whom I spoke last night, and he's an old friend of mine that I knew in university who is from Greece and is currently living there. There is corruption, and they have been taking advantage of the people for many years, particularly since the beginning of the euro. 

However, he also attributes the problem to the people's lazyness and the fact that despite knowing the corruption of the voting system, how easily it could lead to misrepresentation of the people's interest (the same thing that happens in Italy, as I mentioned earlier), they let it all happen.

As I said before, I sympathize with the reason they're protesting, just that the way they go about it isn't exactly the most productive if the intention is to bring about change.


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## Saufsoldat (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> lol narutards talking politics of my country
> You guys dont know shit...
> The greek people work more than any other country in europe, yet there are posters here who dont have a fucking clue and are calling them lazy
> I know people whose wages have decreased 50 % in 6 months. Another fact is that the products in Greece are more expensive than the products in any other european country.
> ...



Pray tell. Why was the German flag burned? Is it because we don't want to bail out Greece without getting anything in return?


----------



## ChocoMello (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Also there is a reason why the german flag was burnt...



Oh this is gonna be funny.


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

Behind the coruption in Greece which caused the crisis there are a lot of german companies like Siemens....look it up.


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## Roman (Feb 9, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Pray tell. Why was the German flag burned? Is it because we don't want to bail out Greece without getting anything in return?



As my friend puts it, they feel it's unfair that Germany bails them out but expect to be repaid with high interest. Greece would then essentially still be in debt, and it'll be even greater a debt than before.

Still, that doesn't explain why the German flag was burned so I'm curious about that too.

Are you from Germany btw?


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> lol narutards talking politics of my country
> You guys dont know shit...
> The greek people work more than any other country in europe, yet there are posters here who dont have a fucking clue and are calling them lazy
> I know people whose wages have decreased 50 % in 6 months. Another fact is that the products in Greece are more expensive than the products in any other european country.
> ...



Yes, it's something I wanted to know, the cost of living in Greece. I know prices increased there but are you sure prices are higher than the rest of Europe. We also have high prices in France. If you guys have same prices, I can understand how it's difficult to see the minimum wage reduced to 751 euros. 

However, about the flag. It's not acceptable to burn a flag. You have the right to express your anger toward Germany but burning their flag is like saying "Death to Germany". This kind of things shouldn't happen in the EU and especially between EU countries.


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

I am not saying the burning of a flag is acceptable I am stating the obvious there is a reason behind this..


> Yes, it's something I wanted to know, the cost of living in Greece. I know prices increased there but are you sure prices are higher than the rest of Europe. We also have high prices in France. If you guys have same prices, I can understand how it's difficult to see the minimum wage reduced to 751 euros.


Yes I ve seen read a lot of reseaches comparing the prizes of the same products sold in europe by international companies like IKEA...and its true..the prices are higher...


----------



## Roman (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> I am not saying the burning of a flag is acceptable I am stating the obvious there is a reason behind this..



But is it a justified? Your earlier comment made it sound like it is.


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

Whether or not something is justified, is up to everyone to decide ..

Point is you only know the story about IMF, and you dont know the whole story about the corruption in Greece..


----------



## Elim Rawne (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> The greek people work more than any other country in europe, yet there are posters here who dont have a fucking clue and are calling them lazy .



So they're not lazy fucks, they're dumbfucks instead. Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

I guess the three goals in the ass by Olympiakos hurt your feelings


----------



## Roman (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Whether or not something is justified, is up to everyone to decide ..
> 
> Point is you only know the story about IMF, and you dont know the whole story about the corruption in Greece..



I like how you tell me what I do and don't know 

I've already talked about this in another thread, but just because everyone says something is right doesn't make it right.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> I guess the three goals in the ass by Olympiakos hurt your feelings



I'm not German. Have fun in the knockout stages....oh wait


----------



## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

People understand terms like right and justified differently..
Is it justified for a guy to be a nazi if his parents were murdered by black people ? Yes it is.
Is it wrong and unacceptable..? Yes it is ...
Thats my point...


> I'm not German. Have fun in the knockout stages....oh wait


Have fun in the Europa League knock out stage.. oh wait


----------



## Saufsoldat (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Behind the coruption in Greece which caused the crisis there are a lot of german companies like Siemens....look it up.



Don't blame other countries for voting corrupt politicians into office. Almost every democracy struggles with lobbyism, do you think shit like that doesn't happen in Germany? Do you think companies don't try to buy politicians here?



Yoko Takeo said:


> As my friend puts it, they feel it's unfair that Germany bails them out but expect to be repaid with high interest. Greece would then essentially still be in debt, and it'll be even greater a debt than before.



Are you joking? The bail-out was specifically designed to reduce the interest Greece has to pay. Greece is up to its arse in debt, it's much higher than the GDP. The bail-out is handed out at a ridiculous interest rate of 3 percent.

Who else would give Greece credits with such low rates considering its awesome CCC credit rating?



> Still, that doesn't explain why the German flag was burned so I'm curious about that too.
> 
> Are you from Germany btw?



I am.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

I am not blaiming other countries as a whole, I am justifying the actions of those people who burnt the flag...


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## Saufsoldat (Feb 9, 2012)

It seems you have a very strange definition of the word "justify". As the word implies, *just*ifying something means making it "just". If something is unacceptable or wrong, then it isn't just and therefore you can't justify something but still say it's wrong.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

The definitions of terms like "justify" and "justice" are relevant, period .


----------



## Saufsoldat (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> The definitions of terms like "justify" and "justice" are relevant, period .



And I just gave you the definition. Here it is again:



> transitive verb
> 1
> a : to prove or *show to be just, right, or reasonable* b (1) : to show to have had a sufficient legal reason (2) : to qualify (oneself) as a surety by taking oath to the ownership of sufficient property
> 2
> ...


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## Nemesis (Feb 9, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Pray tell. Why was the German flag burned? Is it because we don't want to bail out Greece without getting anything in return?



Because in every protest in Greece you get the same couple thousand that try to turn a peaceful protest into a riot.  Since they can't rile up people anymore by attacking businesses on the streets they now focus it else where.  This time it was a burning of a German flag (something I find stupid btw).

They know they won't get cause because once the police come out to engage them in any way they run straight back into the university campuses which the police are not allowed to follow.  The media picks up on it showing how bad Greeks are and if the average Greek reads this and ends up thinking the resto of the world is out to get them.  Then the extremists in the protestors have won since they know next time they can start the riots again.


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Feb 9, 2012)

From my understanding Germany's reaction towards this crisis too late while the problems were increasing. Germany's handling of the crisis is certainly not blameless and completely responsible.

Also I don't think it is entirely unfair to bring Germany's crime against humanity and Greece that was WW2 and how much it paid back to those Germany has hurt. It is a natural reaction to those accused by Germans for hurting Europe as a whole to remember an event of gigantic proportions, but then again two wrongs don't make a right. I do think it is easy to understand where the sentiment was coming from, my own view is that Germany's crimes were incredibly big and they didn't pay back all those that they caused suffering too proportionally to what crimes they were responsible towards them or even proportionally to the economic damage they caused. So it is natural or somewhat understandable for that fact to be remembered in such occurrences where a population is forced into worse living standards and is accused by everyone.

I don't think it is very constructive however, looking to correct your own problems is the way to go rather than looking at the past.

As for Europe as a whole, this crisis proves that prejudices against each other and hatred is easy to surface in a respectable number of people, which makes a union that cooperates to solve problems harder to achieve when half of Europe considers others as lazy, untrustworthy, hates them, are not willing to quickly try to solve problems and so on.  This is a piece of the puzzle. Another one is that several countries are facing economical problems, and there is corruption or over-lending or housing bubbles and other problems. There is certainly enough blame to go around but blaming others doesn't solve problems.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Feb 9, 2012)

> show to be just, right, or reasonable


Reasonable, Just, Right are words with relevant meaning once again


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## LivingHitokiri (Feb 9, 2012)

Megaharrison said:


> Germans are the only one holding the EU together by this point. Really shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.
> 
> That being said, every German is secretly a Nazi, so the Greeks have a point.


Perfect example coming from a person that post his opinion on a matter that he clearly got no clue about.
To begin with , i am a Greek citizen, i work almost all days 12 hours ( Saturdays as well) while getting my paid delayed fucking 2 or 3 months, i have a wife and 2 kids to feed. Who are you and anyone like you to call me lazy when its a known fact that Greeks are the most hardworking citizens in Europe. Check your facts on Eurostat and proper statistic groups before babbling what the bullshit media feeds you 24/7.
Second, i was at the protest, and nobody mention about ( this video doesn't even show it) that people started to call people that burned the flags idiots and even booed at them.
Germany is one of main reason Greece went bankrupt,hence the main reason of people anger about Germans, the other reason is our fucked up corrupt puppet government. Greece and Germany had tons of deals where Greeks bought armament from Germany at DOUBLE PRICE ( submarines that barely could hold up for example ), Siemens profited billions from olympics deal and not only.
If you're so smart why you never wondered why Germany is the ONLY country that benefits from all this Euro crisis ?
Did you even know that Germany owns to Greece a huge debt after WW 2 and the loan the took ?
Same goes for Italians on what they did on Ionian islands, there are official papers on them but our government wont even DARE to touch this subject.
These 2 from above are historic FACTS .
Next time you judge  a  country and its people for being lazy or whatever please,go do some search before posting.
Same goes for all people that act like the know everything when they actually don't, also Greek people do want out of Euro since all they saw from these so called " allies" are backstabbing ( few exceptions excluded).
The main proof of such amazing alliance is how well the resolved the matters between Greece and Turkey, they didn't even bother , instead they try to benefit from it.


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## kayanathera (Feb 9, 2012)

Saufsoldat said:


> Are you joking? The bail-out was specifically designed to reduce the interest Greece has to pay. Greece is up to its arse in debt, it's much higher than the GDP. The bail-out is handed out at a ridiculous interest rate of 3 percent.
> 
> Who else would give Greece credits with such low rates considering its awesome CCC credit rating?


non-sense there was no bailout just the payment schedule modified.so efficient it was that Greeces debt increased from 130 to 192% in only 3 yearsgreeks should have defaulted in 2009 but their politicians knew they would have been burnt at stakes so they mimic rescue talks and hope to shift the anger towards germans


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 9, 2012)

The problem is that when a problem coming in Europe, it divide us. In my opinion, it's once again, a failure of the "Europe of Nations" that can't work in long term if we share the same money. 
Rather than always demand more austerity to Greece, we should bring them solutions for growth. It's in our own interest that Greece, or any other country in the EU, have a good economy.


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## Rikudou (Feb 9, 2012)

GaaraoftheDesert1 said:


> Reasonable, Just, Right are words with relevant meaning once again



RELATIVE!!! Repeat after me: re-la-tive. Not so hard...

And Greeks working more hours than Northern-Europeans means very little, since the average Greek is far less efficient than a Dutchman, German or Frenchman.

And it's well documented how much the people abused the taxloopholes, so cut the 'average greek is innocent' crap.


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## Mathias124 (Feb 9, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> RELATIVE!!! Repeat after me: re-la-tive. Not so hard...
> 
> And Greeks working more hours than Northern-Europeans means very little, since the average Greek is far less efficient than a Dutchman, German or Frenchman.
> 
> And it's well documented how much the people abused the taxloopholes, so cut the 'average greek is innocent' crap.



Nooo you're a racist xenophobe now... 
/irony off
Once again.
1 kebab denmark, 3 minutes.
1 kebab spain    , 12-15 minutes      And i went to 5 different shops, i swear


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## Mintaka (Feb 9, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> And Greeks working more hours than Northern-Europeans means very little, since the average Greek is far less efficient than a Dutchman, German or Frenchman.


Precisely HOW do you know this?


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## LivingHitokiri (Feb 9, 2012)

Rikudou said:


> RELATIVE!!! Repeat after me: re-la-tive. Not so hard...
> 
> And Greeks working more hours than Northern-Europeans means very little, since the average Greek is far less efficient than a Dutchman, German or Frenchman.
> 
> And it's well documented how much the people abused the taxloopholes, so cut the 'average greek is innocent' crap.


But of course,taxes, you never had the wild imagination for a person that gets 650 euros he has to pay 350 euro just because he got a freaking house to stay otherwise they will cut his electricity. If im only to work and pay everything for bills just because the shitty government demands i should clearly obey.
Again, you got no clue about Greeks and their lives at moment yet you throw your retarded and baseless comment about taxes just because you found it on google.




Mintaka said:


> Precisely HOW do you know this?


He smelled his nails apparently.


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## Rikudou (Feb 9, 2012)

Mintaka said:


> Precisely HOW do you know this?



UBS did a study on comparing productivity per capita. Though similar studies are done quite often, with the top 5 being nearly always the same or changing occasionaly. 
France was number one this time, followed by other countries like USA, The Netherlands and Germany.

Don't know where the surprise is comming from really. More educated workforce + superior infrastructure + superior machinery/tools + superior work culture= higher productivity.

Greece never adressed it's real problem which lies in it's failure to compete. Numerous governments failed to tackle or even adress the problem and rather conceiled the true size of their deficit through credit default swaps.

It's whole tax-system is one you'd expect from a banana-republic.


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## Nemesis (Feb 10, 2012)

bbc said:
			
		

> Greece's coalition has been hit by the resignations of four senior politicians over the latest planned spending cuts.
> 
> Three ministers from the far-right Laos party and one from the Socialist Pasok party quit, amid protests and a 48-hour strike over the austerity proposals.
> 
> ...



Things not going well but lets look at the proposals

Their proposals include:

    15,000 public-sector job cuts

Great so more unemployment, these people will need benefits instead of contributing to economy through spending and taxation.  Unemployment at 20% will wise as these will have knock on effects elsewhere so could see it go to 25%

    liberalisation of labour laws

Can't comment on this so I won't because I am not well versed in Greek labour laws.

    lowering the minimum wage by 20% from 751 euros a month to 600 euros

So not only are we firing people but telling those that live on low wages to work longer and earn less.  How can you demand that from anyone especially those that are on 45-50 hour weeks.  Considering parents already are struggling to take care of children even going so far as to give them up (My uncle is now looking after his cousins kids because of this crisis and the kids had to move from Greece to England even though their English isn't that great)

    negotiating a debt write-off with banks.

Like these banks will even negotiate.  They only care about the bonuses they get and will fuck over their own mothers to get more money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16987644


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## Saishin (Feb 12, 2012)

Mathias124 said:


> Biggest economy is worth shit if every citizen produces half as much as a smaller nation's citizen does. Good job, you have territory and citizens but cant manage them..
> 
> Why dont you just italians and Greeks Sheeple? thats basically what you're saying, they're sheeps being herded by their politicians.
> 
> ...


Like all the countries around the world Italy has many problems to solve especially now with this economic crisis but it's still:

Modern Italy is a democratic republic. It has been ranked as the world's 24th most-developed country and its Quality-of-life index has been ranked in the world's top ten.Italy enjoys a very high standard of living, and has a high nominal GDP per capita.It is a founding member of what is now the European Union and part of the Eurozone. Italy is also a member of the G8, G20 and NATO. It has the world's third-largest gold reserves, eighth-largest nominal GDP, tenth highest GDP (PPP)and the sixth highest government budget in the world.It is also a member state of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the World Trade Organization, the Council of Europe, the Western European Union and the United Nations. Italy has the world's ninth-largest defence budget and shares NATO's nuclear weapons.
Italy plays a prominent role in European and global military, cultural and diplomatic affairs. The country's European political, social and economic influence make it a major regional power.The country has a high public education level and is a highly globalised nation.

So stfu Mathias124


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## Altron (Feb 12, 2012)

In the meantime America snickers in the corner.


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## Ciupy (Feb 12, 2012)

Hah.

The Crisis revealed the ugly truth hidden deep inside the heart of the European Union.

The European Union was never the beginning of a federal-type state composed of individual members with equal rights and duties,but a way in which the more developed states could further their own goals and gain economic benefits to the detriment of  less developed nations (either smaller consacrated democracies or fragile post-communism states).

And Germany was the primary beneficiary of all of this,selling their goods on the internal market of those nations,bribing their way into their governments and gaining monopoly in certain areas in that manner and thus emerging as the strongest economy-wise country in Europe.

One could argue that what Germany couldn't do in WW2 with sheer force it achieved now economically.


And then there's the blatant racism a great deal of the citizens of the so called "northern" countries feel for the southern and estic ones.

And I am not just talking about obvious racist scum like Mathias124,but subtler things,like the way east-europeans are perceived in the western states,or how much they make fun of the stereotypes of the lazy southern-european man.

The only way they want south/est-europeans into their countries is as goddamned maids,plumbers,taxi-drivers and so on..there to work on their menial jobs,but not their equals and certainly not as "true" europeans.

So those morons burning a flag and calling some names could maybe show what a lot of southern/eastern-europeans feel about the state of things right now.


And before some smartass says I am from Greece..I am not.

I am from Romania,a country that has been praised by Merkel for the sacrifices it made to combat the crisis (and by that it should read how much the puppet government cut into the living flesh of its inhabitants to conform to the orders of Germany/France!).


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## mailer-daemon (Feb 12, 2012)

Nemesis said:


> Things not going well but lets look at the proposals
> 
> Their proposals include:
> 
> ...



So what solution do you have in mind?

Continue spending money you can't pay?


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## The Weeknd (Feb 12, 2012)

Ahoy matey, they be idiots in this world!


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## Nemesis (Feb 12, 2012)

mailer-daemon said:


> So what solution do you have in mind?
> 
> Continue spending money you can't pay?



You take the money from the banks in the swiss accounts that the powers that be horded to pay off the debt.  You then make sure these people pay the money they owe the state.

Then make sure the Agean is explored for the Gas/Oil that is underneath the waters and make sure that if turkey doesn't like it call their bluff on it.  Greek Waters Greek rescources to do with as they wish.

High unemployment and increase poverty are not acceptable.  These are basically shoving people out of work and on benefits if they are lucky. Soon it will be people going without food or homes or anything just because the rich elite CBA to pay off the debt which they mostly caused.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

Ciupy said:


> Hah.
> 
> The Crisis revealed the ugly truth hidden deep inside the heart of the European Union.
> 
> ...



This is why I said the European Union based on the ideology of "Europe of nations" is a failure. It would be fair for the people of the EU if we were under a European federation in my opinion. It's not fair that Merkozy lead the new policy of the EU because the rest of the EU dictated by them and at the same time, find a agreement with the 27 is a long process and a pain in the ass. We should have more european policies like a social policy in Europe, then, we wouldn't see thing like minimum wage reduced to 580? like in Greece. With a federal Europe, it would be the voice of the European, not the voice of two nation. In my opinion, a federal Europe would be better for European people.


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## Roman (Feb 13, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> This is why I said the European Union based on the ideology of "Europe of nations" is a failure. It would be fair for the people of the EU if we were under a European federation in my opinion. It's not fair that Merkozy lead the new policy of the EU because the rest of the EU dictated by them and at the same time, find a agreement with the 27 is a long process and a pain in the ass. We should have more european policies like a social policy in Europe, then, we wouldn't see thing like minimum wage reduced to 580? like in Greece. With a federal Europe, it would be the voice of the European, not the voice of two nation. In my opinion, a federal Europe would be better for European people.



If politicians could overcome their pride and nationalism, that night be possible. You're right in saying that the idea of a Europe of the Nations doesn't work because every nation in Europe joined to gain some benefit for the sake of their own nation, not as a benefit to all the nations. Indeed, after having thought about what you said in an earlier thread, I do see the sense in what you're saying, and rather than having a conglomerate of European nations, it is better to have a single "Europe" where all voices are heard. Otherwise, the EU becomes grounds for exploitation and a race for personal interests, which is exactly what it is right now.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> If politicians could overcome their pride and nationalism, that night be possible. You're right in saying that the idea of a Europe of the Nations doesn't work because every nation in Europe joined to gain some benefit for the sake of their own nation, not as a benefit to all the nations. Indeed, after having thought about what you said in an earlier thread, I do see the sense in what you're saying, and rather than having a conglomerate of European nations, it is better to have a single "Europe" where all voices are heard. Otherwise, the EU becomes grounds for exploitation and a race for personal interests, which is exactly what it is right now.



It's not only the politicians but it's also the people that must overcome their nationalism and it's not easy in period of crisis. People fear to lost their culture and their identity but in my opinion, Europe won't change the culture, it would even protect it. I often said that we must give up some of our sovereignty to the EU but in fact I was wrong by using such words. It's not give up, it's *share*.

But I'm biased. I'm a pro European. I believe in the European identity and the European unification but we must do it, the right way and not create something like a giant Belgium. I respect Belgium but I talking about political problems based mostly on languages.

Europe must be a dream, a dream for a better life. We need this motivation. When you look at the new emerging countries like China, Brazil or India, they are all motivated by the dream to have a better life. We should do the same here in Europe. We should stop calling ourselves, the "Old world", this is a bullshit create to make us look like a dead continuant, not able to change and innovate.....


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

About Greece, I have a questions. Is these news measure of austerity touch the rich people of Greece. I'm not a expert of the Greek situation but I heard the rich are very much protected there. I also heard about retirement at 52 years old for public servant.


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## Roman (Feb 13, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> It's not only the politicians but it's also the people that must overcome their nationalism and it's not easy in period of crisis. People fear to lost their culture and their identity but in my opinion, Europe won't change the culture, it would even protect it. I often said that we must give up some of our sovereignty to the EU but in fact I was wrong by using such words. It's not give up, it's *share*.



You probably remember that I had such concerns myself about loss of culture, but I've done some thinking since then. Honestly, European nations do all they can to preserve their culture, but how much of that is actually reflected in people's behavior of modern times? Not a whole lot, and those people that do can still continue their old traditions easily in a unified Europe.

There's always the issue of languages but you also had a good point, since European nations can be given the option of learning another language on top of the already existing one, it doesn't have to be only the one language.



Le M?le Dominant said:


> But I'm biased. I'm a pro European. I believe in the European identity and the European unification but we must do it, the right way and not create something like a giant Belgium. I respect Belgium but I talking about political problems based mostly on languages.
> 
> Europe must be a dream, a dream for a better life. We need this motivation. When you look at the new emerging countries like China, Brazil or India, they are all motivated by the dream to have a better life. We should do the same here in Europe. We should stop calling ourselves, the "Old world", this is a bullshit create to make us look like a dead continuant, not able to change and innovate.....



Idk about the benefits of trying to compete with other countries over the focus of self-betterment of the nations through unification. I don't believe the mindset of unifying to better compete with other nations is necessarily the correct one. I know that's not what you're saying but I'm saying this for the benefit of others who might think you are. However, it is true that individual European countries won't be able to keep up with China and other emerging countries if the bickering within the EU continues the way it is.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> You probably remember that I had such concerns myself about loss of culture, but I've done some thinking since then. Honestly, European nations do all they can to preserve their culture, but how much of that is actually reflected in people's behavior of modern times? Not a whole lot, and those people that do can still continue their old traditions easily in a unified Europe.
> 
> There's always the issue of languages but you also had a good point, since European nations can be given the option of learning another language on top of the already existing one, it doesn't have to be only the one language.



About the fear to lose it culture. I just want to say to the europeans who believe they'll lost their culture because of the EU.....watch you TV, go to the cinema, listen......and compare the current situation 30 or 40 years before......you would see that there are less local productions and more American import so if people fear to lose their culture, they should really see where the threat coming from because right now, it's not the EU that change their culture.....





> dk about the benefits of trying to compete with other countries over the focus of self-betterment of the nations through unification. I don't believe the mindset of unifying to better compete with other nations is necessarily the correct one. I know that's not what you're saying but I'm saying this for the benefit of others who might think you are. However, it is true that individual European countries won't be able to keep up with China and other emerging countries if the bickering within the EU continues the way it is.



There are economics areas that should merge in Europe to become stronger and face foreign competition. I think a lot about the electronic industry in Europe. Now it's over, we no more built television in Europe, Philips sold it television division to a Chinese company. Thomson, rent it name to a other Chinese company then they can sell their TV branded Thomson. Except Nokia, there is no more European cellphone makers. Alcatel is owned by the Chinese government, Sony Ericcson will become Sony, Siemens electronic division was buy by Fujitsu. 
It's better to be united that compete each other in this case.


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## Ciupy (Feb 13, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> This is why I said the European Union based on the ideology of "Europe of nations" is a failure. It would be fair for the people of the EU if we were under a European federation in my opinion. It's not fair that Merkozy lead the new policy of the EU because the rest of the EU dictated by them and at the same time, find a agreement with the 27 is a long process and a pain in the ass. We should have more european policies like a social policy in Europe, then, we wouldn't see thing like minimum wage reduced to 580€ like in Greece. With a federal Europe, it would be the voice of the European, not the voice of two nation. In my opinion, a federal Europe would be better for European people.



Yes,a true federation would have been great..but at this moment in time it's an unreacheable goal.

The different languages,different ethnicities and different customs drive apart the nations of Europe.

Even the USA had problems at its foundation,and the component states were pretty darn similar.


What we have now is just a strange trade and travel agreement and a lot of empty talk.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

Ciupy said:


> Yes,a true federation would have been great..but at this moment in time it's an unreacheable goal.
> 
> The different languages,different ethnicities and different customs drive apart the nations of Europe.
> 
> ...



I don't think the language is a huge problem, in my opinion, the countries must stay and have sovereignty on few policies. We can't be like the United States, we must create our own unity based on our differences. 

The ethnicities ???? In my opinion, it's not a big deal as well. When I take my country, France, we have lot of different people and cultures. The Corsicans and Northern France are very different people. 

We can be federal but not like the US. We must find our own way. The dutch must still be free to smoke marijuana if they wish, the British should be free to drive on the left if they wish.


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## Saishin (Feb 13, 2012)

I don't know if a fedaration could works,the point is that each country has fear to give a piece of its sovereignity and that european institutions can interfere to much with the internal affairs of a country imo.
About the greek burn a german flag well it's something that hadn't to be done I mean it's something disrespectful to burn a national flag of any country but we have to understand that the greek now are living one of the hardest moment of their history.


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## Roman (Feb 13, 2012)

Saishin said:


> I don't know if a fedaration could works,the point is that each country has fear to give a piece of its sovereignity and that european institutions can interfere to much with the internal affairs of a country imo.
> About the greek burn a german flag well it's something that hadn't to be done I mean it's something disrespectful to burn a national flag of any country but we have to understand that the greek now are living one of the hardest moment of their history.



That wouldn't really happen if each country was part of Federal Europe, which would be like saying that each country was more of an individual state for the country of Europe. The fear comes from nationalism and losing that national identity, but as explained above, the national identity and culture is already very diluted considering how many people from so many different countries live in countries that are not their own. There's people from everwhere in Europe living in Italy, and even more so in places like France, England, Germany and other EU countries.


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## Stelios (Feb 13, 2012)

So much prejudice against Greeks and I am one of them. It's easy to take things you see on television for granted nowadays. I was in the town square yesterday to protest peacefully about the austerity and in return I received smoke bombs in da face. I returned home when a couple of Molotov's went flying over my head.

 I watched part of the discussion in the Greek parliament on tv. I can safely say that I have no idea what's happening. I don't know if my company will be still viable tomorrow. Some MPs said that these measures are a disaster for average citizen (those of you that say that there is no such thing as average citizen gtfo seriously), the other half of the MPs said that if they don't vote this measures the selves at food stores will go empty , the oil will run out in the country , no medicines , no pensions , guns and riots on streets.Other Mps pointed out that with this bill they are going to sign we give up on sovereignty over public property if for some reason they are not able to pay back. We as a country we will not able to object at all and if a legal issue rises  the one responsible for these matters will be the  Grand Duke of Luxembourg court.

 I don't want to speculate what is true and what is right all I can say is what I feel in my gut. My country is being controlled by puppets for the last 40 years. All this was predetermined and slowly if you look in modern history from 1975 and after it will lead where we are standing now. I m 28 years old and all I see in people's eyes are fear and misery.  The media keeps their misinformation role. We don't know what to believe and what not.

 A lot of you here seem to have an aggressive opinion against my country and me as a eu citizen. You call me lazy bum and say that I had it coming. I m not going to say that you are retards and spoon-fed by the television. I will not. 

 I m going to quote a German Pastor (surprise...) in response to you all. Think about it.



> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the trade unionists,
> ...


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## Saishin (Feb 13, 2012)

Yoko Takeo said:


> That wouldn't really happen if each country was part of Federal Europe, which would be like saying that each country was more of an individual state for the country of Europe. The fear comes from nationalism and losing that national identity, but as explained above, the national identity and culture is already very diluted considering how many people from so many different countries live in countries that are not their own. There's people from everwhere in Europe living in Italy, and even more so in places like France, England, Germany and other EU countries.


Yeah as you said each country should consider itself more of an individual state but as a part of a great union or federation maintaining its culture and traditions and this diversity have to be a richness for Europe not a sympton of separation,unfortunately now with this crisis the nationalism mixed with xenophobia is increasing with relevant supports and can only get things worse in the east european countries tha nationalism is very strong I heard.
Seems Europe is having an identity crisis.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 13, 2012)

Saishin said:


> I don't know if a fedaration could works,the point is that each country has fear to give a piece of its sovereignity and that european institutions can interfere to much with the internal affairs of a country imo.
> About the greek burn a german flag well it's something that hadn't to be done I mean it's something disrespectful to burn a national flag of any country but we have to understand that the greek now are living one of the hardest moment of their history.



It's true, there is a fear to lost it sovereignty but in fact we don't really lost it, we share it. We just don't decide alone but together. We have to fight our nationalism for that and it's not so easy in time of crisis. 


@mstelios

please don't forget those who support the Greek people in this thread. We definitely understand these new austerity measure are tough. 
BTW, I would like to know if there are measure taken against the rich people as well ??? From what I know, there were pretty much protected in Greece.


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## Saishin (Feb 13, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> @mstelios
> 
> please don't forget those who support the Greek people in this thread. We definitely understand these new austerity measure are tough.
> BTW, I would like to know if there are measure taken against the rich people as well ??? From what I know, there were pretty much protected in Greece.


@mstelios: I agree many in this thread are not against Greece.


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## Stelios (Feb 13, 2012)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> @mstelios
> 
> please don't forget those who support the Greek people in this thread. We definitely understand these new austerity measure are tough.
> BTW, I would like to know if there are measure taken against the rich people as well ??? From what I know, there were pretty much protected in Greece.



The rich are still rich. The average citizens have been downgraded to poor standards. The quality level of life will get lower. Not that it was great but it's no comfort knowing that after two years of austerity it goes worst. I have a small tiny hope into the most dark corner of my soul that eventually things will get right. I mean this is why we waited and this is why struggle but they keep asking for more and there's like there is no light in the end of the tunnel. 

 And then there's the tv news talking all day long about how harsh the eu partners talk about Greece and we are like wow holy fuck we can't even leave this shit country everybody hates us. And it's because of them. Not like we believe what we see on tv but we are humans and we are affecting each other if your neighbors are angry and sad and every where you go they are the same you start to feel the same eventually.

 On another note they realized that we can't take this under normal circumstances and they legalized the personal use of marijuana. They figured that if they get the youths stoned it will be easier...


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## mailer-daemon (Feb 13, 2012)

Nemesis said:


> You take the money from the banks in the swiss accounts that the powers that be horded to pay off the debt.  You then make sure these people pay the money they owe the state.
> 
> Then make sure the Agean is explored for the Gas/Oil that is underneath the waters and make sure that if turkey doesn't like it call their bluff on it.  Greek Waters Greek rescources to do with as they wish.
> 
> High unemployment and increase poverty are not acceptable.  These are basically shoving people out of work and on benefits if they are lucky. Soon it will be people going without food or homes or anything just because the rich elite CBA to pay off the debt which they mostly caused.



What terrible ideas. 

Forcibly taking money off banks will just destroy the confidence in the free market and economy. Might as well just promote communism while at it. 

Exploring Agean is a long-term solution. Even then, it will take years before you can extract gas/oil from it. 

Budget cuts are needed. Its elementary.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 14, 2012)

...so there is a bank in the US called Goldman Sachs that help Greek t fake it figures.......and nobody face justice ??? It's normal. You can do it again it's ok for this bank, no problem ???? Seriously...no problem ????? The European and the Greek who are on the front line pay a part of their fraud.


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## Nemesis (Feb 14, 2012)

mailer-daemon said:


> What terrible ideas.
> 
> Forcibly taking money off banks will just destroy the confidence in the free market and economy. Might as well just promote communism while at it.
> 
> ...



So we let the guilty and the thieves get off without punishment.  Unaffected by the austerity while still living it up in the high life.  While the innocent common man suffers  because of some nobodies confidence.


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