# Itachi vs. Sandaime Raikage



## trance (Jun 18, 2013)

Location: Konoha Chunin Exams Finals arena

Intel: None

Distance: 20m

Mindset: Bloodlusted 

Rules: No genjutsu. No Totsuka sword. Both are alive. Itachi is healthy. 

How does this play out?


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## Stermor (Jun 18, 2013)

Lazers said:


> Location: Konoha Chunin Exams Finals arena
> 
> Intel: None
> 
> ...



without totsuka itachi can't hurt him.. even if the sandaime gets lit on fire with amaterasu.. the sandaime can easily tank that untill itachi runs out of stamina.. basically just constantly houding itachi.. forcing susanoo up.. and well 2/3 minuts laters itachi is too tired.. 

itachi is always dieing.. and well sandaime is probebly aswell. (depending wether amaterasu stops when the user dies.. or wether the sandaime can find somebody who can seal it away.. or wether he is capable of a basterdized kaiten(blowing his cloak and the flames away.. or wether he can transfere the flames to non vital parts of his body.. or if he can transfere the flames to the ground or something.. or if he can force itachi to stop the flames at the point of his death..


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## Mithos (Jun 18, 2013)

^would Totsuka even work any way? It has to pierce the target to seal them, and I doubt its capable of piercing the Sandaime's skin. 

But on topic, I don't think Itachi can take him down here. Amaterasu may eventually take him down, but I don't see it working before he takes Itachi down. So best case scenario, it's a draw: Itachi dies but the Sandaime goes down sometime after the fight due to Amaterasu.


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## KenpachiDiachoxx (Jun 18, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> ^would Totsuka even work any way? It has to pierce the target to seal them, and I doubt its capable of piercing the Sandaime's skin.
> 
> But on topic, I don't think Itachi can take him down here. Amaterasu may eventually take him down, but I don't see it working before he takes Itachi down. So best case scenario, it's a draw: Itachi dies but the Sandaime goes down sometime after the fight due to Amaterasu.



Umm I don't see why Totsuka wouldn't work. Or how a raiton shroud or any shroud is suppose to stop it from Piercing.

I still vote Itachi even though Totsuka and Genjutsu is limited.
Itachi still has use of Susanoo with  yamata shield and Katsugchi. So the Raikage gets Ameratsu, which is possible because he's not faster than Ei. Or he wears himself out with Katsugchi, Susanoo gave him and he gets Ameratsu...Or simply Ameratsu.


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## Mithos (Jun 18, 2013)

KenpachiDiachoxx said:


> Umm I don't see why Totsuka wouldn't work. Or how a raiton shroud or any shroud is suppose to stop it from Piercing.
> 
> I still vote Itachi even though Totsuka and Genjutsu is limited.
> Itachi still has use of Susanoo with  yamata shield and Katsugchi. So the Raikage gets Ameratsu, which is possible because he's not faster than Ei. Or he wears himself out with Katsugchi, Susanoo gave him and he gets Ameratsu...Or simply Ameratsu.



Totsuka wouldn't work because the Sandaime's skin is incredibly durable. Even FRS didn't do much, if anything. He's not going to be impaled by Totsuka. 

I don't see Amaterasu having any immediate effect on him, to be honest. His insane durability should allow him to outlast Itachi at least. So best case scenario Itachi forces a draw, since eventually the Raikage would fall to Amaterasu at some point after the fight.


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## Jayaraman MinatoItachi (Jun 18, 2013)

Handicap damn it. Itachi would have finished him in second if u didn't cancel his tsukyomi..


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## crisler (Jun 18, 2013)

this is too much man...as if you've made this thread so itachi gets defeated no matter what...

not only tsukuyomi, but genjutsu itself...and totsuka...

i still believe susanoos' normal attacks would be strong enough to defeat him but that's only when sandaime is actually hit...

i would give this to sandaime...even explosive clones won't do much


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## KeyofMiracles (Jun 18, 2013)

Once Itachi figures out regular attacks won't work on the third. He lights him up with Amaterasu and ends the match. 

And it does NOT burn slow if the target is focused on.
7


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## Baroxio (Jun 18, 2013)

Amaterasu GG.

Even if it takes a few days to burn him to cinders, I doubt the third Raikage can fight effectively if his face is covered by black inextinguishable flames. All Itachi has to do is prop up a folding lawn chair and watch the show.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

The 3rd wins IMO.

As a matter of fact all Itachi's nin-jutsu is useless and I mean ALL of them. and when we come to the Genjutsu. he will need to catch the 3rd with his Susanoo to put him under his Genjutsu just like what Madara did to A. Of course that's unlikely, and for the Amaterasu I doubt that it will land on him. 

even without your rules I would go with the 3rd more often than not.


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## Hiruko2425 (Jun 18, 2013)

Well you basically took away Itachi's biggest weapons genjutsu and the Totsuka Blade. Saying that though without genjutsu and Totsuka it can go either way. Itachi wins if he catches him with Amatersu and the Third wins if he can avoid Amatersu and continually hit Susano with hell stab.


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## Doge (Jun 18, 2013)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Once Itachi figures out regular attacks won't work on the third. He lights him up with Amaterasu and ends the match.
> 
> And it does NOT burn slow if the target is focused on.
> 7



Danzo is nowhere near as durable as the Raikage.  Also, nothing's preventing the Raikage from speeding around Itachi's Susanoo until he's able to pierce it with 1 Finger Nukite from the backside.

At least OP had the decency to ban genjutsu and Totsuka, lest Itachi wins by default.


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## Turrin (Jun 18, 2013)

With no knowledge it becomes a contest between who pulls out what first. If Itachi pulls out Amaterasu first than he wins, but if Sandaime pulls out Amber Sealing Pot first he wins.


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## Stermor (Jun 18, 2013)

Turrin said:


> With no knowledge it becomes a contest between who pulls out what first. If Itachi pulls out Amaterasu first than he wins, but if Sandaime pulls out Amber Sealing Pot first he wins.



i don't see why amaterasu would be considered a win?? lets say itachi decides to use amaterasu.. 

the raikage is going to block most of it with his hand.. and just keep moving.. and really itachi is going to be preforming miracles just stay out of the way.. which he can.. but he is going to get tired from that pretty easily.. 

and really even if sandaime can no longer properly see(which seems rather weird to me).. he can just run susanoo through(general area).. and itachi will still be forced to keep it up.. 

there is just such a huge stamina difference that itachi cannot hope to win..


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## ueharakk (Jun 18, 2013)

Sandaime raikage with his RnY survived a FRS which he even has an elemental weakness towards.  What's the best thing that totsuka or a normal susanoo sword has pierced?  Kimi's bones?  

No, Itachi will probably lose in the short run or draw in the long run.  The chuunin exam finals area is very small for kage level opponents and there aren't many places to hide.  Sandaime is most likely going to get tagged by amaterasu since he can't escape LoS, however with his RnY he can tank the flames for hours at least if we consider how slowly they burn.  
Alive Itachi like any MS user has bad stamina issues and will have to be using susanoo in order to stay alive against sandaime.  He'll probably get caught, punched or shanked before SR dies to the flames.


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## Bonly (Jun 18, 2013)

Amaterasu or Sword of Totsuka ends the Sandaime.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 18, 2013)

Lazers said:


> Location: Konoha Chunin Exams Finals arena
> 
> Intel: None
> 
> ...



Itachi can still win although it will be much harder without genjutsu or totsuka sword... Why even make these restrictions? so other characters can stand a chance against shinobi they otherwise could not I guess...

Amaterasu was already shown to be able to get through 4th raikage's raiton Armour even in V2 super mode which is a level not even the 3rd raikage can achieve...
So amaterasu can beat the 3rd raikage... His raiton armour is not more durable then then the 4th's... No way, the 4th had a way more powerful armour then the 3rd did...

Basically, all the 3rd raikage can do is try and stand itachi lol... And since he is not even as fast as the 4th raikage... itachi can easily keep up and even out speed him with his jutsu speed and clone creation...

In the end... 3rd raikage charges itachi, hits a clone... stops for a short enough time for the real itachi to easily ignote the 3rd in amaterasu... itachi wins...

Not need for susanoo at all... the use of clones and jutsu and physical speed advantage is all itachi needs to beat some who only relies on his spear and shield... when the shield cannot even hold up to amaterasu and the spear is too slow to possibly catch itachi...


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## Ghost (Jun 18, 2013)

Amaterasu GG.


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## trance (Jun 18, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Amaterasu or Sword of Totsuka ends the Sandaime.



No Totsuka Sword or genjutsu allowed.


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## bleakwinter (Jun 18, 2013)

Senpou Fuuton Rasenshuriken has ripped an entire human being to almost nothing (1), yet Sandaime's body withstood it. I'm not sure why people think that Amaterasu, something that has far less destructive feats than Rasenshuriken, would kill Sandaime. Would it kill him after burning on him for 7 continuous days? Probably. Can Itachi continue fighting against Sandaime until 7 days is reached (Especially given his poor stamina)? Probably not.


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## KeyofMiracles (Jun 18, 2013)

kresh said:


> Danzo is nowhere near as durable as the Raikage.  Also, nothing's preventing the Raikage from speeding around Itachi's Susanoo until he's able to pierce it with 1 Finger Nukite from the backside.
> 
> At least OP had the decency to ban genjutsu and Totsuka, lest Itachi wins by default.



I never said that he was. The point of the post is to show Amaterasu doesn't burn slow like some people believe. In minutes the Raikage will burn up and become nothing. Being durable against attacks like FRS doesn't mean you can tank attacks like Amaterasu that burn targets extremely fast.

Speeding around Itachi's Susanoo isn't going to stop him from getting hit with Amaterasu, cause he is not as fast as V2 A.


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## Kai (Jun 18, 2013)

Depends on Sandaime's physical tenacity against Amaterasu vs. Itachi's eyesight and stamina to uphold Susano'o.

In that comparison, I see Itachi being the first to fall. 3rd Raikage should be able to capitalize on openings created by Itachi's fatigue with the MS. Amaterasu _will_ incinerate the Raikage eventually, but his physical resistance is off the charts which should gift him the ability to fight an entire battle coated in Amaterasu against less stamina focused fighters like an Uchiha.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi still wins with Amaterasu.

And the notion that the Raikage will be exhausting him through Susano'o usage AFTER being set on fire is ridiculous. The 3rd will have burned to death long before Itachi breaks a sweat. Look what happened to the Hachibi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 18, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Amaterasu GG.
> 
> Even if it takes a few days to burn him to cinders, I doubt the third Raikage can fight effectively if his face is covered by black inextinguishable flames. All Itachi has to do is prop up a folding lawn chair and watch the show.



This


No need to say more.


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## Stermor (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi still wins with Amaterasu.
> 
> And the notion that the Raikage will be exhausting him through Susano'o usage AFTER being set on fire is ridiculous. The 3rd will have burned to death long before Itachi breaks a sweat. Look what happened to the Hachibi.




you mean look at his son?? who has the same shroud.. who forgot his arm was on fire?? really this is pretty much the feat that garantees amaterasu is not getting through before the sandaime can kill itachi...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 18, 2013)

Stermor said:


> you mean look at his son?? who has the same shroud.. who forgot his arm was on fire?? really this is pretty much the feat that garantees amaterasu is not getting through before the sandaime can kill itachi...



Raikage's fist caught the non focused flames. And he had to chop that arm off after a couple of seconds. 

Raikage wasn't hit by Amaterasu.

Sorta like this : 
Link removed

Leftovers burn slowly.


And Sandaime lacks his sons speed. Itachi can evade him or activate Susano'o if he is dire need.


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## Immortal (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi lights Sandaime on fire and defends himself with Yata mirror/bunshin feints until the fire wears the Raikage down.


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## Dr. White (Jun 18, 2013)

Hum someone explain to me how Sandaime's durability has anything to due with his boiling point? Amaterasu is not about raw force, piercing, or slashing of any sort, it inflicts pain via burning: it damn well burned fire itself already, and made quick work of Jiraiya's toad stomach, which was mentioned to breath fire itself.

Sandaime get's a fully body hit by Amaterasu, Itachi focuses more, and outlast his dying attempts to slay him in Susano, not without difficulty though.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jun 18, 2013)

Well since we cannot go the mindfuck route it all depends on how the third raikage takes on amaterasu(since he lacks the V2 level speed to dodge it). It sounds unrealistic for someone to run around on fire for a extended period of time but then again itachi shitty stamina could make it work(since this is the 3rd raikage we are talking about). However the 3rd's speed can already be read naturally so with the 3rd being blind and in rage/pain it works immensely in itachi's favor.

With that being said think the match is itachi's more times than not. The third would get roasted/beaten and stalled by susanoo while itachi barely gets away.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 19, 2013)

You didn't have to restrict Itachi, he gets annihilated no matter what.

And LOL at anyone thinking thinking Totsuka can pierce Lightning Armor, let alone 3rd Raikage's skin. 
Sasuke's Chidori could barely get his finger tips into Ei, and not only is he playdough compared to his father, but Chidori's sole function is to _stab_.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 19, 2013)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> You didn't have to restrict Itachi, he gets annihilated no matter what.
> 
> And LOL at anyone thinking thinking Totsuka can pierce Lightning Armor, let alone 3rd Raikage's skin.
> Sasuke's Chidori could barely get his finger tips into Ei, and not only is he playdough compared to his father, but Chidori's sole function is to _stab_.



Amaterasu could do the trick.


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## Baroxio (Jun 19, 2013)

Considering even the freaking Juubidama-tanking Juubi couldn't tank Amaterasu flames without shedding the burning parts, I doubt even the Sandaime Raikage could survive for more than a few minutes of concentrated burning.

Amaterasu really is just that Hax.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 19, 2013)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Amaterasu could do the trick.



Could... unless it doesn't.  



Baroxio said:


> Considering even the freaking Juubidama-tanking  Juubi couldn't tank Amaterasu flames without shedding the burning parts,  I doubt even the Sandaime Raikage could survive for more than a few  minutes of concentrated burning.
> 
> Amaterasu really is just that Hax.



It really isn't. 

Kishimoto has said that SM Naruto = MS  Sasuke, whom has Amaterasu. Also, Izuna and/or Madara have Amaterasu and  it wasn't enough to kill either Tobirama or Hashirama.


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## egressmadara (Jun 19, 2013)

Raikage won't blitz, but he'll still bash his head in.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 19, 2013)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> Could... unless it doesn't.



And why doesn't it?


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## Kazekage94 (Jun 19, 2013)

All these Itachi fans lol. The 3rd wins. He is much faster than Itachi.


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## Stermor (Jun 20, 2013)

Kazekage94 said:


> All these Itachi fans lol. The 3rd wins. He is much faster than Itachi.



he really isn't much faster then itachi.. sure there is a speed gap.. but it is very likely that itachi can still hit the raikage with amaterasu.. 

the thing is though.. we have feats showing amaterasu not getting through the lighting shroud... but people now wish to say it can'.. because focusing on it grant it more magical power or something... 

the only difference between focusing on it, is you can generate more fire on the raikage.. it is stil not goign through the shroud.. since we have evidence that it didn't!!! his son actually forgot it was still burning so its not like it hurts while its on the shroud.. 

suggesting amaterasu just magically get hotter if you look at it is quite a well thought out argument...


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## Kazekage94 (Jun 20, 2013)

Stermor said:


> he really isn't much faster then itachi.. sure there is a speed gap.. but it is very likely that itachi can still hit the raikage with amaterasu..
> 
> the thing is though.. we have feats showing amaterasu not getting through the lighting shroud... but people now wish to say it can'.. because focusing on it grant it more magical power or something...
> 
> ...



Good point but Amaterasu is really slow. I'm pretty sure he can evade it. Right?


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## Trojan (Jun 20, 2013)

The only thing Itachi can do here to win is indeed the Amaterasu, but the problem is
how will he land it on the 3rd? the 3rd dodged Naruto twice! 

while Itachi barely land the Amaterasu on hebi Sasuke.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Stermor said:


> you mean look at his son?? who has the same shroud.. who forgot his arm was on fire?? really this is pretty much the feat that garantees amaterasu is not getting through before the sandaime can kill itachi...



A had to cut his own arm off to get away from the flames.

And he was lucky enough to only get the flames on his arm.

If Sandaime takes a shot to his torso, he's done. And he won't last long enough to kill Itachi.



UltimateDeadpool said:


> You didn't have to restrict Itachi, he gets annihilated no matter what.



Unrestricted Itachi still wins with Amaterasu, although Tsukuyomi also becomes an option.



UltimateDeadpool said:


> It really isn't.
> 
> Kishimoto has said that SM Naruto = MS  Sasuke, whom has Amaterasu.



That has nothing to do with Amaterasu specifically; Naruto and Sasuke are simply comparable shinobi.

Yet Amaterasu allows Sasuke to destroy enemies like the Hachibi that are too tough for Naruto to kill.

Just like Naruto would have a cakewalk outlasting Danzou's Izanagi when it nearly killed Sasuke to do so.

Their abilities suit them differently and Naruto has ways to cope with Amaterasu that the 3rd Raikage does not.



> Also, Izuna and/or Madara have Amaterasu and  it wasn't enough to kill either Tobirama or Hashirama.



Totally irrelevant as Hashirama is leagues stronger than the 3rd, Tobirama may be as well, and we have never actually seen either of them have to deal with Amaterasu.



Kazekage94 said:


> All these Itachi fans lol. The 3rd wins. He is much faster than Itachi.



No. Itachi kept up with KCM Naruto, whose speed is pretty comparable to the 3rd's (without Shunshin, which puts him past the 4th's speed).



Kazekage94 said:


> Good point but Amaterasu is really slow. I'm pretty sure he can evade it. Right?



Er, Amaterasu is guided by sight; for someone who is already fast enough to step with KCM Naruto and Killer B, there's no way his vision is going to be "really slow."



TorJaN said:


> The only thing Itachi can do here to win is indeed the Amaterasu, but the problem is
> how will he land it on the 3rd? the 3rd dodged Naruto twice!



Naruto does not possess any sight-based Jutsu. He had to throw stuff at the Raikage or run up and hit him.

And he actually managed to do the latter in Sage Mode after dodging the Raikage's Nukite, so Itachi shouldn't have any trouble hitting the Raikage with Amaterasu.



> while Itachi barely land the Amaterasu on hebi Sasuke.



Itachi executed Amaterasu AFTER Sasuke started running, and it still hit him anyway.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Look, I'm not gonna beat around the bush:

It's utterly stupid that anyone thinks the 3rd Raikage can beat Itachi.

He's not as fast as A; Sage Naruto WAS able to hit him. So was KCM Naruto. You know who KCM Naruto WASN'T able to land a clean hit on? Itachi.

This speed debate is completely insane; Itachi has never, EVER been lacking in that area, so there's absolutely no excuse for believing that he falls short against someone whose speed is not even top tier. If your only argument is "HURR DURR, HEBI SASUKE," let me remind you that _he hit Hebi Sasuke_- with a generic Katon stream and other basic attacks, let alone Amaterasu. He also evaded every single one of Hebi Sasuke's attacks except for the rigged shuriken in mid-air, which _only_ hit him because Tsukuyomi fucked up his coordination. And the guy still managed to vault a Katon and redirect a mid-air Chidori with a six-inch slab of shrapnel in his thigh. Itachi's speed and agility are insane and fall just short of the same top tier from which the 3rd Raikage is excluded; we have every reason to believe they are comparable in that area.

Amaterasu is ignited by Itachi's _sight_; it hits the Raikage at a glance and reduces him to nothing in a matter of seconds. Itachi can put up Susano'o to protect himself until that happens or he can just keep dodging until the Raikage burns up; he's on an entirely different level from the Raikage. This isn't even a fight so much as it is waiting for Itachi to get serious and end the match.


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## Dr. White (Jun 20, 2013)

lol about the Sasuke point dont even conceed that as he was flopping the fight...


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## Jagger (Jun 20, 2013)

The difference between Naruto's attack and Amaterasu is the latter is capable of keep burning the Sandaime Raikage while FRS was just one-hit attack. Ama will keep burning the Kage and it will become a burden, besides, he will have to add more chakra to the armour to prevent the black flames to reach his body. It's like fighting against as fast as you with weights on your body.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

For Christ's sake, Temari and a handful of fodder hit the 3rd Raikage with their Fuuton attack. There's absolutely no justification for the claim that he can evade Amaterasu; he doesn't even have any feats to back that up in the first place.

A needs Bijuu-level Shunshin to accomplish it. The 3rd never displayed such speed.


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## Rocky (Jun 20, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Considering even the freaking Juubidama-tanking Juubi couldn't tank Amaterasu flames without shedding the burning parts, I doubt even the Sandaime Raikage could survive for more than a few minutes of concentrated burning.
> 
> Amaterasu really is just that Hax.




The Juubi never got hit with Amaterasu.


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## Trojan (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Look, I'm not gonna beat around the bush:
> 
> It's utterly stupid that anyone thinks the 3rd Raikage can beat Itachi.
> 
> ...



Naruto wanted to defeat the 3rd. On the other hand he did not want to crash Itachi, so of course
that will be the outcome. Not because Itachi is anywhere near Naruto's speed.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 20, 2013)

Rocky said:


> The Juubi never got hit with Amaterasu.


Exactly. It was a Futon: Cho Odama Rasenshuriken enhanced Enton that the Ten-Tails got hit with which is exponentially stronger than Amaterasu due to the highest amount of wind-element manipulation used to enhance it. Not only that, the Ten-Tails kind of easily dealt with the black flames.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> Naruto wanted to defeat the 3rd. On the other hand he did not want to crash Itachi, so of course
> that will be the outcome. Not because Itachi is anywhere near Naruto's speed.



It doesn't say, anywhere, that Naruto "did not want to crash Itachi." Naruto tried to hit and kick Itachi at least three times over the course of their exchange. B even tried to get him from behind.

So this notion that anyone was pulling punches in that encounter is unheard of, not to mention totally needless (since Naruto could just knock Itachi on his ass, gain distance, and keep talking to him if that's what he wanted- IF he really could).

Here's another huge problem with the pro-Raikage argument: Even if he is faster than Itachi, there's no way he could dodge Amaterasu unless he was a LOT faster than Itachi. And he isn't.

It seems like too many people look at speed differences and treat the faster character like they can easily blitz or evade everything. That is NOT how it works; unless a substantial difference exists (like A vs. Sasuke or Minato vs. fodder), it's totally unreasonable to expect something so one-sided. Even if the 3rd is faster than Itachi (which is not supported by...anything), it can't be by much.

This is no different than a fight between regular guys; the faster one simply isn't going to dodge everything in a physical exchange just because he's faster. The catch is, one of them has a sight-based attack that can one-shot gradually, so good game.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Exactly. It was a Futon: Cho Odama Rasenshuriken enhanced Enton that the Ten-Tails got hit with which is exponentially stronger than Amaterasu due to the highest amount of wind-element manipulation used to enhance it. Not only that, the Ten-Tails kind of easily dealt with the black flames.



There's no evidence that FCORS made the Enton itsef any stronger; all we see is that it generated more of it.


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Goddamn, you Itachi fanboys _really do_ ignore any and all context that doesn't support your agenda.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Vice said:


> Goddamn, you Itachi fanboys _really do_ ignore any and all context that doesn't support your agenda.



Coming from a guy who hates on Itachi like it's his day job, this is about as meaningful a criticism as a Republican blasting Obama for being a dumb poophead. Or vice-versa.

I would suggest you offer a substantive rebuttal of the claims with which you disagree instead.

Otherwise, you are just pissing up-wind.


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## Rocky (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> There's no evidence that FCORS made the Enton itsef any stronger; all we see is that it generated more of it.




Are you kidding.


"All we saw" was a giant flaming Chakra Shuriken collide with the Juubi, The damage output of that is _obviously_ higher than that of Amaterasu by itself. Fuuton powers up Katon. Kakuzu didn't just generate more fire with his combinations.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense. Amaterasu spreads. If the goal was to lite the entire thing on fire, the Sasuke would merely need to look at it. The flames would appear and spread to cover the entire thing, like they did the Hachibi.


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> There's no evidence that FCORS made the Enton itsef any stronger; all we see is that it generated more of it.





Nikushimi said:


> I would suggest you offer a substantive rebuttal of the claims with which you disagree instead.







> The only thing that can save a dying flame... and give it strength... is the power of wind.







> I've never seen a kagutsuchi so strong... they've really made their jutsus compliment each other perfectly.



I'm not going to bother with anything else you've said because most of it is just more Itachi wank bullshit and you'll ignore anything I say anyway.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Are you kidding.
> 
> 
> "All we saw" was a giant flaming Chakra Shuriken collide with the Juubi, The damage output of that is _obviously_ higher than that of Amaterasu by itself.



The FCORS by itself obviously isn't doing anything to an entity that can casually deflect or flat-out tank Bijuudama, so it's negligible. The only attack that posed a threat was Amaterasu, which the FCORS served to magnify.



> Fuuton powers up Katon. Kakuzu didn't just generate more fire with his combinations.



Actually, yeah, that is pretty much what we saw; the Fuuton spread his Katon over a large area and pushed it through Kakashi's Suiton.

No one ever said it makes the flames burn hotter or whatever the fuck nonsense is being peddled here; it makes them bigger and it may even add force to the expulsion, but the idea that Amaterasu burning idly on the Juubi's body was somehow empowered is totally unfounded.



> What you're saying doesn't even make sense. Amaterasu spreads. If the goal was to lite the entire thing on fire, the Sasuke would merely need to look at it. The flames would appear and spread to cover the entire thing, like they did the Hachibi.



Did you see how fucking huge the Juubi was? Even the plus-sized Amaterasu wasn't able to spread over the whole thing in any reasonable amount of time; a standard Amaterasu wouldn't be nearly as effective, and I'm sure Sasuke's smart enough to figure out that hitting the ultimate chakra powerhouse with a Fuuton+Enton combo is a much better idea than settling for Enton alone. And the option was there, so of course he would take it. At the very least, I don't think Sasuke would want to stand around waiting for the damn thing to immolate when he could speed up the process with Naruto's help.


----------



## Trojan (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> It doesn't say, anywhere, that Naruto "did not want to crash Itachi." Naruto tried to hit and kick Itachi at least three times over the course of their exchange. B even tried to get him from behind.
> 
> So this notion that anyone was pulling punches in that encounter is unheard of, not to mention totally needless (since Naruto could just knock Itachi on his ass, gain distance, and keep talking to him if that's what he wanted- IF he really could).
> 
> ...



dealt with the black flames.
dealt with the black flames.

- I don't see what does that have to do with the Amaterasu's speed, even Gaara's sand was 
faster than it. end please don't see that was Enton because in no wear it's stated that's
it's slower or anything else. 

- So, we cannot say the 3rd will dodge it, but we always can say Itachi will always succeed
to land the Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi ..etc on his foes and he can't miss it not even for once, as
Itachi's fans seem to believe? 

- Yeah, the same "one-shot" who has never defeated anyone. lol


----------



## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Vice said:


>



Yes, the Fuuton stoked the Enton flame and made it much larger. More flames=more intensity. No one said it's any different than if you just took a normal Amaterasu and let it spread to that extent.



> I'm not going to bother with anything else you've said because most of it is just more Itachi wank bullshit and you'll ignore anything I say anyway.



That defeatist mentality is a demon of your own creation. I simply asked you to rebut what you disagreed with.


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> It seems like too many people look at speed differences and treat the faster character like they can easily blitz or evade everything. That is NOT how it works



Yeah, that argument is so annoying now that Itachi is on the other side of it, right?


----------



## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> That defeatist mentality is a demon of your own creation. I simply asked you to rebut what you disagreed with.





> Yes, the Fuuton stoked the Enton flame and made it much larger. More flames=more intensity. No one said it's any different than if you just took a normal Amaterasu and let it spread to that extent.



It's quite difficult to debate anyone who blatantly ignores everything that doesn't support the wank of their favorite character.


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## Rocky (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm not going to get into this too deep. The Jutsu that hit the Juubi was a fusion of two attacks that complimented each other perfectly. I am not going to apply its feats to a lesser Jutsu in Amaterasu. 

Only a small portion of the Juubi was actually ignited. Sasuke theoretically could have accomplished that easily with Amaterasu. If the FRS powerup had caused the Juubi to explode into a mound of black flames, maybe I'd see the other way. However, as of now, the "AoE" of Amaterasu is very similar to the Aoe of.....SKPZS (?). 

You feel me, Niku? Your argument that Naruto only contributed to generating more of the flames isn't really supported, because it didn't actually show that. The amount of flames generated was nothing Sasuke couldn't accomplish by himself with much less trouble.

FRS made Enton stronger. Bottom line. Do you really want people to start going around calming RM Naruto has the firepower to damage the Juubi?


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> dealt with the black flames.
> dealt with the black flames.



In case you hadn't noticed, Itachi was talking as well.

So the notion that Naruto had to is just made-up (and objectively wrong); holding back was not necessary to maintain a conversation, which is what Itachi was doing despite not even having the ability to hold back.



> - I don't see what does that have to do with the Amaterasu's speed, even Gaara's sand was
> faster than it.



Gaara's sand also intercepted the 4th Raikage.

Although I think both feats can easily be explained (since the Raikage was in free-fall and Gaara only needs to obscure LOS to block Amaterasu).



> end please don't see that was Enton because in no wear it's stated that's
> it's slower or anything else.



I agree with you; Enton is just shaped-controlled Amaterasu.



> - So, we cannot say the 3rd will dodge it, but we always can say Itachi will always succeed
> to land the Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi ..etc on his foes and he can't miss it not even for once, as
> Itachi's fans seem to believe?



Tsukuyomi can be evaded by anyone who closes their eyes or just doesn't look in Itachi's; usually it only works if the enemy has no knowledge or Itachi gets the drop on them in the heat of battle.

Amaterasu is different, though; it's even hyped in the manga for being "impossible to dodge" (which was only ever proved wrong by the fastest man alive...barring Naruto, of course).



> - Yeah, the same "one-shot" who has never defeated anyone. lol



Amaterasu has defeated a lot of targets; it just never gets credit for it because people like to pretend that not killing the enemy is the same as never hitting them in the first place.

-Hachibi.
-Cerberus.
-Samurai fodder (rescued).
-Karin (rescued).
-Raikage's left arm.
-Zetsu.
-Obito (survived with Izanagi, apparently).


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Vice said:


> Yeah, that argument is so annoying now that Itachi is on the other side of it, right?



It's annoying when it's used unjustifiably between two characters of comparable speed. It doesn't matter who is on which side; I didn't support this nonsense when people were saying Itachi blitzes the Second Mizukage, either.



Vice said:


> It's quite difficult to debate anyone who blatantly ignores everything that doesn't support the wank of their favorite character.



If all you're going to do is bitterly lash out at people, then don't expect any sympathy. I gave you a chance and you turned it down- remember that.



Rocky said:


> I'm not going to get into this too deep. The Jutsu that hit the Juubi was a fusion of two attacks that complimented each other perfectly. I am not going to apply its feats to a lesser Jutsu in Amaterasu.
> 
> Only a small portion of the Juubi was actually ignited. Sasuke theoretically could have accomplished that easily with Amaterasu. If the FRS powerup had caused the Juubi to explode into a mound of black flames, maybe I'd see the other way. However, as of now, the "AoE" of Amaterasu is very similar to the Aoe of.....SKPZS (?).
> 
> You feel me, Niku? Your argument that Naruto only contributed to generating more of the flames isn't really supported, because it didn't actually show that. The amount of flames generated was nothing Sasuke couldn't accomplish by himself with much less trouble.



Look at the Juublets:

dealt with the black flames.

Now look at how they compare to the Juubi:

dealt with the black flames.

dealt with the black flames.

That thing is monstrous. Sasuke's Amaterasu took half a chapter of flailing to put the Hachibi down, and it's about the size of one of those "little" things.

And again, attacking with more firepower when you have the option is just common sense.



> FRS made Enton stronger. Bottom line. Do you really want people to start going around calming RM Naruto has the firepower to damage the Juubi?



No.

But Sasuke and Itachi do, albeit not to any meaningful extent.


----------



## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> It's annoying when it's used unjustifiably between two characters of comparable speed. It doesn't matter who is on which side;



Except that Itachi's not comparable to any Raikage in speed. 



> I didn't support this nonsense when people were saying Itachi blitzes the Second Mizukage, either.



Really? Because I've never seen you say a word to anyone whose argument for any Itachi match consisted of "insert overrated Itachi attack blitz" , like... ever.



> If all you're going to do is bitterly lash out at people, then don't expect any sympathy.



I didn't expect any sympathy. In fact, I got back pretty much exactly what I expected, really.



> I gave you a chance and you turned it down- remember that.



What is this, some kind of warning or something? The fuck outta here.



> No.
> 
> But Sasuke and Itachi do, albeit not to any meaningful extent.



Sure, the same way Itachi can defeat Nagato. As long as Naruto is standing there next to them.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Vice said:


> Except that Itachi's not comparable to any Raikage in speed.



Itachi is comparable to the 3rd Raikage in speed.

As are Kakashi, Kabuto, Pain, Muu, Sasuke, Hanzou, Mifune and the like.

3rd Raikage didn't demonstrate the same Shunshin proficiency as his son. And his is right in that ballpark without it, too.

So is KCM and Sage Naruto without Shunshin.

And Minato without Hiraishin.

And probably a mobile Nagato would be, as well.



> Really? Because I've never seen you say a word to anyone whose argument for any Itachi match consisted of "insert overrated Itachi attack blitz" , like... ever.



Go check out the Itachi vs. Jiraiya and Orochimaru thread I made. Very first page, I'm defending _their_ chances (even from Rocky, who is arguing _against_ me here). Some people were going as far as to call it a stomp because of speed/reaction time difference.

Just because I wank Itachi jokingly doesn't mean I'm one of the worst Itachi fans or even a bad one; a lot of my views are uncommon and I tend to give Itachi the benefit of the doubt more than other people do, but everything I say is reasonable if you actually bother to listen to it.



> What is this, some kind of warning or something? The fuck outta here.



Just so, in the future, you can't go bawwwing about what an unreasonable heartless meanie I am. I offered to listen to you and you turned me down; that happens a lot and then those same people go and bitch about what an Itachi fanboy I am.

Like, no shit. I'm an Itachi fan; last I checked, that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I'm always perfectly open to talk about things and it always seems to be the people who aren't that have a problem with me. Go figure.



> Sure, the same way Itachi can defeat Nagato. As long as Naruto is standing there next to them.



Amaterasu was able to damage Nagato as well; he just had a counter for it.

Same deal with the Juubi.


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Really, Niku, if this didn't hype Itachi in some roundabout way, would _you_ even buy the stupidity of what you're trying to sell here?

Just curious.


----------



## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Vice said:


> Really, Niku, if this didn't hype Itachi in some roundabout way, would _you_ even buy the stupidity of what you're trying to sell here?
> 
> Just curious.



Yes, to give your loaded question a straight answer, I would.

Once Amaterasu had already been magnified by FCORS, it was burning on the Juubi without aid from any Fuuton; there was nothing empowering it, stoking it, adding expulsive force- it was just sitting there doing what any Amaterasu does: burn.

What did the Fuuton do, besides make it bigger? Generate more heat? Having more Amaterasu is going to do that anyway, if it's anything like a normal flame.

I can't even tell in what way people are saying Amaterasu was made "stronger"; it seems like you are all implying that the two Jutsu somehow merged and became something else. As far as I can tell, that Enton flame looks exactly like any other, but on a larger scale.


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## Stermor (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> A had to cut his own arm off to get away from the flames.
> 
> And he was lucky enough to only get the flames on his arm.
> 
> ...



not really... Ei cut his arm off because he wished to stop using his shroud.. amaterasu is going to do alot of damage to bear skin regardless of how powerfult he sandaime is.. 

the thing here is though.. Ei forgot his arm was on fire.. meaning he didn't feel the pain(atleast in any usefull ammount).. now while EI stopped his shroud because the battle was over btw not because he needed to.. 

we again have feats of the sandaime fighting for 3 days and nights.. while sasuke (itachi's superior in stamina) was only able to hold susanoo for less then 10 minuts... 

you understand there is quite a large stamina gap here.. making it impossible for itachi to outlast the sandaime.. who is both capable of harming susanoo and has the speed that itachi is going to require it.. 

and again it is very likely itachi is going to get a hit in on the sandaime.. it is just not going to be enough to stop the sandaime from killing itachi.. regardless of where it hits(btw sandaime shoudl have the speed to deflect partially dogde)... 

wether the sandaime then later days from amaterasu is ofcourse another deal.. which depending on the match condition could be a draw..



Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is comparable to the 3rd Raikage in speed.
> 
> As are Kakashi, Kabuto, Pain, Muu, Sasuke, Hanzou, Mifune and the like.
> 
> ...



itachi is comparable to the sandaime in the way casual kcm clone was easily holding his own against itachi(he was easily superior).. while the sandaime dogded a serious kcm clone multiple times.. this means sandaime has a speed advantage.. it just depends on how big the difference is between serious and non serious naruto.. 

kakashi, kabuto, pain, muu.. all of these are pretty likely to be off similar speed... 

hanzou(as we have seen) sasuke and mifune.. are all hell no to same speed as the sandaime.. hanzou and mifune are already slower then sasuke.. and sasuke lol he can't even see kcm naruto move(shunsin.. let alone dogde.... they are aleast a full tier lower..


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## Vice (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> What did the Fuuton do, besides make it bigger?



Made it stronger, like the manga suggested. Multiple times.



> I can't even tell in what way people are saying Amaterasu was made "stronger"; it seems like you are all implying that the two Jutsu somehow merged and became something else. As far as I can tell, that Enton flame looks exactly like any other, but on a larger scale.



Probably because they were stated to have merged, again, multiple times and Minato even joked about giving it a new name.


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## Rocky (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Look at the Juublets:
> 
> dealt with the black flames.
> 
> ...



What was ignited was nothing compared to the actual size of the Ten-Tails.



The patch of flames are barley bigger than its head. Itachi feeling the effects of a deadly disease lit an entire forest ablaze, and you doubt a superior user of the black flames can light a small portion of the Juubi on fire?



> And again, attacking with more firepower when you have the option is just common sense.




1. It's not as simple as "attack with more or attack with less". That combo required multiple steps and perfect timing. 

2. You use the term "more firepower". Yet, you claim that attack isn't actually stronger than Amaterasu. It's just a way to get more Amaterasu. 



> No.
> 
> But Sasuke and Itachi do, albeit not to any meaningful extent.




Maybe if Sasuke and Itachi could use FCORS as well.


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## Kazekage94 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> A had to cut his own arm off to get away from the flames.
> 
> And he was lucky enough to only get the flames on his arm.
> 
> ...



Wait for one second. The 3RD is still faster than him. To be able to dodge naruto twice!!!!! Itachi would have gotten hit by it. Y'all act like Itachi is so powerful. He isn't really powerful at all. The 3rd Raikage ends him with his lightning edge. It isnt that hard.


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## tanman (Jun 20, 2013)

People are saying Sandaime Raikage can _tank_ Amaterasu? Some even saying he could do the same to Totsuka?
Is that even a thing? Am I being Punk'd? Is _Punk'd_ even a thing anymore?

Edo Sandaime Raikage "tanked" FRS, an actual physical attack that does actual calculable damage. That does not mean, however, that he won't be defeated by an attack like Amaterasu that can do potentially infinite damage. The time it would take for Itachi to exhaust Susano'o is far longer than anyone can survive while on fire. A lost his hand in moments. The raikage would be rapidly become a cripple. In a different regard, Totsuka is an attack that doesn't do calculable damage. It is a sword made of chakra that casts an infinite illusion. It can't be "tanked" like a physical attack. I'm aware that it's banned, but particular posts on the subject really troubled me.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 20, 2013)

tanman said:


> People are saying Sandaime Raikage can _tank_ Amaterasu? Some even saying he could do the same to Totsuka?
> Is that even a thing? Am I being Punk'd? Is _Punk'd_ even a thing anymore?


Amaterasu _was_ held at by by A's Raiton no Yoroi, and the Sandaime Raikage's Raiton no Yoroi + his own body's insane durability means he can probably tank Amaterasu given its slow burning feats.

And since when do you think Totsuka can't be tanked? Its a sword that pierces to seal-if it can't pierce, it can't seal. Not only that, you'd have to prove that its sharper than the Futon: Rasenshuriken.


> Edo Sandaime Raikage "tanked" FRS, an actual physical attack that does actual calculable damage. That does not mean, however, that he won't be defeated by an attack like Amaterasu that can do potentially infinite damage. The time it would take for Itachi to exhaust Susano'o is far longer than anyone can survive while on fire. A lost his hand in moments. The raikage would be rapidly become a cripple. In a different regard, Totsuka is an attack that doesn't do calculable damage. It is a sword made of chakra that casts an infinite illusion. It can't be "tanked" like a physical attack. I'm aware that it's banned, but particular posts on the subject really troubled me.


Again, you have to prove that the Totsuka is sharper than the Futon: Rasenshuriken. 

A lost his hand in moments? His arm, while clad in the Raiton no Yoroi was burning for a _significant amount of time_ yet it wasn't until there was a pause in the battle he even noticed it. 

Tanman, you're making a lot of assumptions and ignoring feats of what Amaterasu actually done, and claiming that Totsuka, which has zero piercing feats, can even harm the Sandaime Raikage.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 20, 2013)

Stermor said:


> not really... Ei cut his arm off because he wished to stop using his shroud.. amaterasu is going to do alot of damage to bear skin regardless of how powerfult he sandaime is..
> 
> the thing here is though.. Ei forgot his arm was on fire.. meaning he didn't feel the pain(atleast in any usefull ammount).. now while EI stopped his shroud because the battle was over btw not because he needed to..



A chopped his arm off *because he was going to die* if the flames spread to the rest of his body.



> we again have feats of the sandaime fighting for 3 days and nights.. while sasuke (itachi's superior in stamina) was only able to hold susanoo for less then 10 minuts...
> 
> you understand there is quite a large stamina gap here.. making it impossible for itachi to outlast the sandaime.. who is both capable of harming susanoo and has the speed that itachi is going to require it..
> 
> ...



Sandaime will burn to death before Itachi dies of exhaustion, so stamina doesn't matter.



> itachi is comparable to the sandaime in the way casual kcm clone was easily holding his own against itachi(he was easily superior).. while the sandaime dogded a serious kcm clone multiple times.. this means sandaime has a speed advantage.. it just depends on how big the difference is between serious and non serious naruto..



1. Itachi was fighting the real KCM Naruto, not a clone.

2. What is the difference between a "casual" clone and a "serious" clone? As far as I am aware, there is only one Jutsu at work: Kage Bunshin.



> kakashi, kabuto, pain, muu.. all of these are pretty likely to be off similar speed...
> 
> hanzou(as we have seen) sasuke and mifune.. are all hell no to same speed as the sandaime.. hanzou and mifune are already slower then sasuke.. and sasuke lol he can't even see kcm naruto move(shunsin.. let alone dogde.... they are aleast a full tier lower..



Sasuke could keep up with Kakashi. Mifune could keep up with Sasuke. Hanzou could keep up with Mifune. They are all in the same tier with those other guys.



Vice said:


> Made it stronger, like the manga suggested. Multiple times.



By stoking the flames and producing more of them.



> Probably because they were stated to have merged, again, multiple times and Minato even joked about giving it a new name.



It's not uncommon for combo Jutsu to receive new names; Yamato and Naruto had one for their Fuuton+Suiton combo, as did Kakuzu for his Fuuton+Katon combo.



Rocky said:


> What was ignited was nothing compared to the actual size of the Ten-Tails.
> 
> 
> 
> The patch of flames are barley bigger than its head. Itachi feeling the effects of a deadly disease lit an entire forest ablaze, and you doubt a superior user of the black flames can light a small portion of the Juubi on fire?



Forests are made of trees. Trees generally burn pretty well when they're covered in dense foliage. I don't know what the Juubi's made of, but I doubt it's quite as flammable.



> 1. It's not as simple as "attack with more or attack with less". That combo required multiple steps and perfect timing.
> 
> 2. You use the term "more firepower". Yet, you claim that attack isn't actually stronger than Amaterasu. It's just a way to get more Amaterasu.



1. Which we all know was bullshit contrivance that Kishi pulled out of his bum to make it sound impressive; all they did was hit their attacks together at a point next to the Juubi using some magic chakra ratio that they were able to synchronize perfectly just fucking because they're each other's nakama or what the fuck ever. Come on.

2. More Amaterasu expelled with the force of FCORS =  more firepower.



> Maybe if Sasuke and Itachi could use FCORS as well.



They can use Amaterasu. It won't spread quite as far before it gets shrugged off, but it'll do the same amount of damage over the area onto which it is applied.



Kazekage94 said:


> Wait for one second. The 3RD is still faster than him. To be able to dodge naruto twice!!!!! Itachi would have gotten hit by it.



Itachi wasn't hit by Naruto even once. Or Killer B, for that matter.



> Y'all act like Itachi is so powerful. He isn't really powerful at all.



That is just objectively wrong.



> The 3rd Raikage ends him with his lightning edge. It isnt that hard.



Itachi blocks with Susano'o and Amaterasus his face off. GG.



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Amaterasu _was_ held at by by A's Raiton no Yoroi, and the Sandaime Raikage's Raiton no Yoroi + his own body's insane durability means he can probably tank Amaterasu given its slow burning feats.



Durability has nothing to do with flame/heat resistance.

So no.

A was going to die if he didn't cut his arm off, btw.



> And since when do you think Totsuka can't be tanked? Its a sword that pierces to seal-if it can't pierce, it can't seal. Not only that, you'd have to prove that its sharper than the Futon: Rasenshuriken.



I agree that the Totsuka is not unblockable, however, it doesn't have to be sharper than FRS to hurt Sandaime; FRS isn't even strictly a sharp attack in the first place.

However, I don't believe the Totsuka no Tsurugi would hurt Sandaime much if at all.



> Totsuka, which has zero piercing feats, can even harm the Sandaime Raikage.



...Whoa, what?

Are you senile?

It easily pierced the Yamata no Jutsu, with scales harder than stone (hyped in the third databook for its scales destroying the Uchiha Hideout ruins as it slid over them).

It also cut through a large field of Kabuto's Shikkotsumyaku, which are harder than steel (even if we ignore the fact that his were also Sage-powered).

And it even pierced Edo Nagato, who seemed to take a V2 Lariat from Killer B without being torn open the way Kisame was (and Kisame's body withstood _Hirudora_).

Don't give me this "no feats" crap; the Totsuka has plenty of feats, whether you think they are good feats or not.


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## Rocky (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Forests are made of trees. Trees generally burn pretty well when they're covered in dense foliage. I don't know what the Juubi's made of, but I doubt it's quite as flammable.




Amaterasu ignores flammability. Itachi lit a fireproof toad esophagus on fire. Everything "burns pretty well" when facing the technique. 

The flames consume everything, including fire itself. Itachi consumed an entire forest. Novice Sasuke consumed the 8-Tails. Please stop arguing that it's out of current Sasuke's capabilities to cover that small portion of the Juubi in Amaterasu.



> 1. Which we all know was bullshit contrivance that Kishi pulled out of his bum to make it sound impressive; all they did was hit their attacks together at a point next to the Juubi using some magic chakra ratio that they were able to synchronize perfectly just fucking because they're each other's nakama or what the fuck ever. Come on.




This isn't really even an argument. It seems as if you're just taking out your anger. 



> 2. More Amaterasu expelled with the force of FCORS =  more firepower


.


As I've said before, it's not like it's out of an Uchiha's Chakra capability to light that small part of the ten-tails on fire. Which means you're basically trying to convince me that Naruto added nothing.


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## Kazekage94 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> A chopped his arm off *because he was going to die* if the flames spread to the rest of his body.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like your spirit lol. Good knowledge and Intel I gave you a little something in your User Cp.


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## Stermor (Jun 21, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> A chopped his arm off *because he was going to die* if the flames spread to the rest of his body..



haha and you know this why?? because he actually forgot it was on fire? or the casual way he just cut his own arm off after the battle was over?? him dieing has no basis at all.. especially since he was perfectly willing to attack even after that.. 



Nikushimi said:


> Sandaime will burn to death before Itachi dies of exhaustion, so stamina doesn't matter..



again which feats... we have a clear feat of the shroud holding the flames back.. i want you to provide me with a feat that itachi's can get thorugh the shroud.. unless you can't(which you can't) we again have no basis to think amaterasu is getting through the shroud.... 




Nikushimi said:


> 1. Itachi was fighting the real KCM Naruto, not a clone. .



who cares?? they have no difference in speed or skill.. 



Nikushimi said:


> 2. What is the difference between a "casual" clone and a "serious" clone? As far as I am aware, there is only one Jutsu at work: Kage Bunshin..



lol you do understand kcm naruto wanting to murder you means he is going to be spending some more effort on you.. and if he just wants to talk he just defends with taijutsu... its like saying killerbee spend just as much effort on sasuke as itachi(while bee was stated to bee playing arround with sasuke).. 



Nikushimi said:


> Sasuke could keep up with Kakashi. Mifune could keep up with Sasuke. Hanzou could keep up with Mifune. They are all in the same tier with those other guys.
> .



not really.. we have significantly superior feats from kakashi.. while we have a direct failure from sasuke in v2 Ei.. so again they are all a tier lower...


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 21, 2013)

Sandaime ain't tanking Amaterasu  Even Juubi can't tank it.

Cerebrus gets hit by FRS, nothing happens. Itachi hits him with Amaterasu dies within 2 seconds.


Itachi hits Raikage with Amaterasu, fights over. Itachi with low diff.


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## Roman (Jun 21, 2013)

With no Genjutsu or Totsuka sword, I don't see Itachi winning this when with lightning armor, Sandaime can dodge Amaterasu. The only thing that was able to penetrate the armor was his own ability, and unlike Naruto, Itachi doesn't have anything that can redirect Sandaime's attacks the same way. It really depends on how well Itachi can hold up Suusano to protect himself from Raikage, but I doubt his stamina would last long enough.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 21, 2013)

Freedan said:


> With no Genjutsu or Totsuka sword, I don't see Itachi winning this when with lightning armor, Sandaime can dodge Amaterasu. The only thing that was able to penetrate the armor was his own ability, and unlike Naruto, Itachi doesn't have anything that can redirect Sandaime's attacks the same way. It really depends on how well Itachi can hold up Suusano to protect himself from Raikage, but I doubt his stamina would last long enough.




Sandaime raikage doesn't have V2, which allowed A to dodge Amaterasu.
Itachi is faster than Sasuke, which is something to consider.

Itachi can replicate what Naruto did with Susano'o, but he doesn't need to.

Amaterasu will finish the job.


Also the notion that Raikage could effectively fight for a couple of Minutes while his whole body is engulfed with Amaterasu against Susano'o is the most ridicilous thing I've heard in BD since "Konan defeats Itachi" or some other silly shit like that(there are plenty).


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## trance (Jun 21, 2013)

Ohh, this is a rather back and forth debate.


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## ueharakk (Jun 21, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi is comparable to the 3rd Raikage in speed.
> 
> As are Kakashi, Kabuto, Pain, Muu, Sasuke, Hanzou, Mifune and the like.
> 
> ...



The hell is this?  

Sandaime Raikage's speed is at least on par with V1 Ei's own speed as naruto directly compares both raikage's speeds.  Kishi doesn't have to have Sandaime or every character repeat speed feats of others in order to show the readers they are equals.

Pain, Kakashi, Muu, Sasuke, Mifune and hanzou are no where near Sandaime Raikage or V1 Ei's speed.  Sasuke is probably the fastest out of all of those guys and the gap between him and Ei's speed was worse than the gap between his and KN0 Naruto's VoTe speed.

And then you want to say that those guys are in the same speed tier as KCM Naruto w/o shunshin?  Your view of speed is one of the most anti-canonical views out there.  By that logic, base Naruto w/o shunshin is as fast as KCM Naruto w/o shunshin.


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