# If Kaido is 100...



## Danielguta007 (May 10, 2020)

What about these characters -

Big Mom -
Current Teach -
Current Luffy -
Charlotte Katakuri -
Jack the Drought -
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp -
Pre timeskip Sengoku -
Sakazuki -
Kuzan -
Issho -
Borsalino -
Queen the Plague -
King the Wildfire -
Jozu - 
Marco - 
Vista - 

The 100 points for Kaido represent physical strength, power, durability, speed, power of destruction
in other words the complete package of a character.


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## Brian (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom- 101

Reactions: Like 9


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## Dellinger (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom 98
Current Teach 96
Current Luffy 88
Charlotte Katakuri 87
Jack the Drought 84
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp 92
Pre timeskip Sengoku 91
Sakazuki 95
Kuzan 93
Issho 92
Borsalino 94
Queen the Plague 86
King the Wildfire 88
Jozu 87
Marco 88
Vista 85

Edit actually put a minus 10 to everyone character that's not an Admiral/Yonko on this list.


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## Draco Bolton (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom: 100
Current Teach: 97
Current Luffy: 88
Charlotte Katakuri: 82
Jack the Drought: 77
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp: 90
Pre timeskip Sengoku: 87
Sakazuki: 99
Kuzan: 96
Issho: 94
Borsalino: 97
Queen the Plague: 80
King the Wildfire: 81
Jozu: 79
Marco: 81
Vista: 79


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## Canute87 (May 10, 2020)

Brian said:


> Big Mom- 101



Quite many men have ace'd that class.


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## Strobacaxi (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom - 99.5
Current Teach - 98
Current Luffy -88
Charlotte Katakuri - 85
Jack the Drought - 78
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 98
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 97
Sakazuki - 99.5
Kuzan - 99
Issho - 98
Borsalino - 99
Queen the Plague - 83
King the Wildfire - 86
Jozu - 80
Marco - 85
Vista - 78

Bonus rounds:
Prime Garp: 107
Prime WB: 108
Prime Roger: 108


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom With All Homies- 125
Big Mom with Just Napoleon - 99~100
Current Teach - 150
Current Luffy - 90~99
Charlotte Katakuri - 75
Jack the Drought - 65 ~ 70
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 99~125
Pre timeskip Sengoku -98 ~ 120
Sakazuki  - 99 ~ 125
Kuzan - 98 ~ 124
Issho - 95 ~ 100
Borsalino - 98 ~ 130
Queen the Plague - 65~70
King the Wildfire - 75~85
Jozu - 70~85
Marco - 99~101
Vista - 70~85


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## CaptainCommander (May 10, 2020)

These numbers are really close together :S If kaido is 100 shouldn't most of these be like a 50 or less. . . .


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## Strobacaxi (May 10, 2020)

CaptainCommander said:


> These numbers are really close together :S If kaido is 100 shouldn't most of these be like a 50 or less. . . .


No. If Kaidou is 100 and someone else is 50, that someone can't even make him move. Imagine Luffy's fight, except all those hits don't even make Kaidou flinch. Luffy at least threw him on the ground


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## CaptainCommander (May 10, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> No. If Kaidou is 100 and someone else is 50, that someone can't even make him move. Imagine Luffy's fight, except all those hits don't even make Kaidou flinch. Luffy at least threw him on the ground



I doubt that. Case in point Luffy made him move (Not that kaido was actually fighting back).


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## Dellinger (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Big Mom With All Homies- 125
> Big Mom with Just Napoleon - 99~100
> Current Teach - 150
> Current Luffy - 90~99
> ...



This fucker really put Marco above Kaido


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> This fucker really put Marco above Kaido


Is 99 > 100? One day you will learn to count


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## Dellinger (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Is 99 > 100? One day you will learn to count


101 certainly is.

So according to you

Teach >> Big Mom >>> Marco>=Kaido.

Makes sense.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> 101 certainly is.
> 
> So according to you
> 
> ...


Do you understand what a range is?
Do you understand what Homies are?


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## Dellinger (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Do you understand what a range is?
> Do you understand what Homies are?


Do you understand what hybrid and awakening are ? 
Do you understand what WSC is ?
DO you understand what "1 on 1 always bet on Kaido" means ?

If what you understand is that Kaido is weaker then Marco then you are stupid.


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> Do you understand what hybrid and awakening are ?
> Do you understand what WSC is ?
> DO you understand what "1 on 1 always bet on Kaido" means ?
> 
> If what you understand is that Kaido is weaker then Marco then you are stupid.


I understand what bullshit hype, probably based on him cheesing Oden is.

Big Mom beating Kaidou with Homies isn’t 1v1 though.

I didn’t say Kaidou is weaker then Marco; I said he could be weaker then Marco; or he could be stronger, I view those 2 as close


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## Dark Knight (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom - 100
Current Teach - 99
Current Luffy -90
Charlotte Katakuri - 86
Jack the Drought - 80
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 99
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 98
Sakazuki - 98.5
Kuzan - 98
Issho - 97
Borsalino - 98
Queen the Plague - 85
King the Wildfire - 86
Jozu - 85
Marco - 87
Vista - 80


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## Dellinger (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I understand what bullshit hype, probably based on him cheesing Oden is.
> 
> Big Mom beating Kaidou with Homies isn’t 1v1 though.
> 
> I didn’t say Kaidou is weaker then Marco; I said he could be weaker then Marco; or he could be stronger, I view those 2 as close



I mean according to you, Teach who is decently stronger than Kaido should be calling him a dreaded monster.


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Link Removed*




That certainly makes sense. 

Marco who got wrecked by Teach also is stronger than the Yonko with the highest bounty, the Yonko who can't die, the Yonko who is WSC.

That certainly makes sense also.


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## Eliyua23 (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom ~ 97 

Teach ~ 130

Current Luffy ~ 95 

Charlotte Katakuri ~ 85

Jack ~ 80 

PTS Garp ~ 99 

PTS Sengoku ~ 97

Akainu ~ 125

Aokiji ~ 123

Fujitora ~ 95

Kizaru ~ 100

Marco ~ 100 

Queen ~ 85

King ~ 86

Jozu ~ 85

Vista ~ 80


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## TheWiggian (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom - 90
Current Teach - 91
Current Luffy - 80
Charlotte Katakuri - 77
Jack the Drought - 70
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 99
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 95
Sakazuki - 101
Kuzan - 100
Issho - 99
Borsalino - 99
Queen the Plague - 75
King the Wildfire - 80
Jozu - 77
Marco - 80
Vista - 75

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eliyua23 (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Big Mom With All Homies- 125
> Big Mom with Just Napoleon - 99~100
> Current Teach - 150
> Current Luffy - 90~99
> ...



You think Kizaru is stronger than Akainu?


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## Duhul10 (May 10, 2020)

No, no, keep scrolling, I am just here for Turrin's posts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (May 10, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> You think Kizaru is stronger than Akainu?



He is light and Whitebeard can destroy the planet, do the math.


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## CaptainCommander (May 10, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> Big Mom ~ 97
> 
> Teach ~ 130
> 
> ...



You put Vista closer to kaido than rooster?


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## GucciBandana (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom - 98
Current Teach - 95
Current Luffy - 91
Charlotte Katakuri - 88
Jack the Drought - 82
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 93
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 92
Sakazuki - 99
Kuzan - 97
Issho - 96
Borsalino - 98
Queen the Plague - 85
King the Wildfire - 87
Jozu - 87
Marco - 88
Vista - 85


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## Dunno (May 10, 2020)

Big Mom - 95
Current Teach - 104
Current Luffy - 85-90
Charlotte Katakuri - 80
Jack the Drought - 65
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 100
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 95
Sakazuki - 105
Kuzan - 100
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 99
Queen the Plague - 75-80
King the Wildfire - 85-90
Jozu -75
Marco - 80-90
Vista - 70


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Dellinger said:


> I mean according to you, Teach who is decently stronger than Kaido should be calling him a dreaded monster.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Yah no way Teach could be showing respect for someone weaker then him. No way Teach could be referring to Kaidou simply being not human.

No way someone who got wrecked by an FV candidate could be close to the current arc Villain. 

That some solid close minded staning bruv


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> You think Kizaru is stronger than Akainu?


I think Kizaru has the chance to be stronger then Akainu as a wild card; even though he is probably not.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I understand what bullshit hype, probably based on him cheesing Oden is.
> 
> *Big Mom beating Kaidou with Homies isn’t 1v1 though.*
> 
> I didn’t say Kaidou is weaker then Marco; I said he could be weaker then Marco; or he could be stronger, I view those 2 as close


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


>


You can Frog Face me all day. But if Big Mom with just Napoleon is fighting evenly with Kaidou; how is Big Mom + 3000 or whatever homies not > Kaidou?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> You can Frog Face me all day. But if Big Mom with just Napoleon is fighting evenly with Kaidou; how is Big Mom + 3000 or whatever homies not > Kaidou?



Cause Big Moms homies are fodder to kaidou. 

Adding in a couple hundred Ten Tens is not gonna tip the scales in a Sasuke Vs Naruto fight. Naruto still wins.


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Cause Big Moms homies are fodder to kaidou.
> 
> Adding in a couple hundred Ten Tens is not gonna tip the scales in a Sasuke Vs Naruto fight. Naruto still wins.


Big Mom has more then a couple hundred; and Napoleon didn’t seem like Fodder to Kaidou; so I have to assume Moms personal Homies can be more effective and so far she hasn’t shown a limit to the ones / number she can create besides plot.


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> No, no, keep scrolling, I am just here for Turrin's posts.


I’m just here for the OL’s collective post wano tears and damage control


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## Eliyua23 (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I think Kizaru has the chance to be stronger then Akainu as a wild card; even though he is probably not.





CaptainCommander said:


> You put Vista closer to kaido than rooster?



No


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## Eliyua23 (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I think Kizaru has the chance to be stronger then Akainu as a wild card; even though he is probably not.


 
I’d say Aokiji has a better shot


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Big Mom has more then a couple hundred; and Napoleon didn’t seem like Fodder to Kaidou; so I have to assume Moms personal Homies can be more effective and so far she hasn’t shown a limit to the ones / number she can create besides plot.



Nami boosted up Zeus and it still did jack shit to big mom who wasn't even trying to block it with haki.

Hoomies are nothing but cannon fodder to base Kaidou. Let alone Awakened Hybrid Kaidou using advanced COA. He can literally stand there and face tank Promethous and Zeus. Only thing that makes Napoleon a threat is Big moms personal strength and Haki aka not really napoleon but big mom doing the work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (May 11, 2020)

Oda did a good job at dehyping so currently:
Big Mom - at full power 105
Current Teach - 105
Current Luffy - 80
Charlotte Katakuri - 50
Jack the Drought - 10
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 99
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 90
Sakazuki - 105
Kuzan - 105
Issho - 105
Borsalino - 105
Queen the Plague - 35
King the Wildfire - 70
Jozu - 50
Marco - 70
Vista - 40

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dellinger (May 11, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nami boosted up Zeus and it still did jack shit to big mom who wasn't even trying to block it with haki.
> 
> Hoomies are nothing but cannon fodder to base Kaidou. Let alone Awakened Hybrid Kaidou using advanced COA. He can literally stand there and face tank Promethous and Zeus. Only thing that makes Napoleon a threat is Big moms personal strength and Haki aka not really napoleon but big mom doing the work.


Don’t bother with him. It’s like he’s been reading another manga when it comes to Kaido


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## Duhul10 (May 11, 2020)

People here having commanders closer to Kaido than Kaido compared to other top tiers. Talking about ridiculous, jeesh.


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## Ruse (May 11, 2020)

Big Mom - 98
Current Teach - 96
Current Luffy - 83
Charlotte Katakuri - 79
Jack the Drought - 69
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 93
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 88
Sakazuki - 93
Kuzan - 92
Issho - 90
Borsalino - 90
Queen the Plague - 75
King the Wildfire - 81
Jozu - 75
Marco - 81
Vista - 70

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ekkologix (May 11, 2020)

is kaido like getting downplayed or what lol

beware that drunken fist style

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (May 11, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom - 90
> Current Teach - 91
> Current Luffy - 80
> 
> ...



You don't even try to spell that Admirals are some uber characters!



BB is working with Aokiji but the dude is 10% stronger than him ... makes sense for BB!


So le me get this all Admirals are equal to Kaido and Akainu is stronger  so why the heck did they not overpower them for like ages?



Corax said:


> Oda did a good job at dehyping so currently:
> Big Mom - at full power 105
> Current Teach - 105
> 
> ...


So I guess when Luffy will demolish an Admiral solo he will be 50 in this list.


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## Duhul10 (May 11, 2020)

Ruse said:


> Big Mom - 98
> Current Teach - 96
> Current Luffy - 83
> Charlotte Katakuri - 79
> ...


this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (May 11, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> I’d say Aokiji has a better shot


Aokiji already lost to Akainu and really serves no story role if he is >= Akainu. Kizaru could be the Gin type double agent character


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## Turrin (May 11, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Nami boosted up Zeus and it still did jack shit to big mom who wasn't even trying to block it with haki.
> 
> Hoomies are nothing but cannon fodder to base Kaidou. Let alone Awakened Hybrid Kaidou using advanced COA. He can literally stand there and face tank Promethous and Zeus. Only thing that makes Napoleon a threat is Big moms personal strength and Haki aka not really napoleon but big mom doing the work.


Nami boosted Zues did enough damage to distract BM and stop her movements. If this was done to Kaidou it would give BM a free hit. So that is useful. 

Also Nami Boosted Zues still seems weaker then when Big Mom Maxes our Prometheus’s Power; so I think BM can make the homies stronger then Nami can. Also there are combination attacks the Homies are capable of not just in conjunction with BM, but themselves as well. 

I mean saying even an army of Homies adds nothing basically is the same as you saying BM Fruit is totally useless against anyone on her Tier which I don’t agree with

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (May 11, 2020)

Big Mom - 98
Current Teach - 96
Current Luffy - 80 (85+ end of Wano)
Kidd - 80
Charlotte Katakuri - 78
Jack the Drought - 71
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 101
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 98
Sakazuki - 100
Kuzan - 97
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 98
Queen the Plague - 77
King the Wildfire - 79
Jozu - 77
Marco - 79
Vista - 74


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## Ruse (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Big Mom - 98
> Current Teach - 96
> Current Luffy - 80 (85+ end of Wano)
> Kidd - 80
> ...



Couple of questions about this 

1) You really think Luffy will only grow by a small amount once this is all said and done?

2) If MF Garp and Sengoku are that high, what are their prime versions?


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## Beast (May 11, 2020)

Ruse said:


> Couple of questions about this
> 
> 1) You really think Luffy will only grow by a small amount once this is all said and done?
> 
> 2) If MF Garp and Sengoku are that high, what are their prime versions?


1. Well, after the fight with Kaidou and Wano, I’m hoping Oda does bloody right thing and has the SH/ alliance stay in Wano for a good month or so, gathering information (what’s happened at the reverie, what happened to sabo etc), resting (everyone should have had the battle of their life) and train even further (M3 train others in haki etc). Immediately after beating Kaidou I expect luffy to jump no more then 6/7 maybe even 8 points, and then maybe another two resting as he does, once they do leave Wano, (luffy close to 90)  luffy will have to face Weevil and/ or an Admiral, if it’s weevil he will solo and go 90+ or he will face an admiral WITH the M3, I will take luffy another arc or one and a half to finally be able to beat a top tier imo (luffy will be an under dog for most of the series till after Raftel when he goes to take down the WG as the new PK).

2. I’m one of the few I guess that DOESNT think the old gen got that much weaker given their age (WB, Ray, Garp, Sengoku), at least till pre TS (then their generation ended with WB).
Prime Old gen imo

Garp 110
Roger 110
WB 110
Xebec 100- 105
Sengoku 99
Shiki 99
Ray 95
BM 95
Oden 95

The gap between prime WB and Kaidou is still smaller then the gap between commanders and the lowest top tiers. Also despite the numbers, I still consider Kaidou 1HKOing luffy as outlier, so I still see commanders and mostly FMs as most competent enough to hold their own against anyone for a short while.


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## Eliyua23 (May 11, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Aokiji already lost to Akainu and really serves no story role if he is >= Akainu. Kizaru could be the Gin type double agent character



That already shows he’s stronger as he’s the one who fought with Akainu to be FM


Turrin said:


> Aokiji already lost to Akainu and really serves no story role if he is >= Akainu. Kizaru could be the Gin type double agent character



Aokiji flipped already so not sure Kizaru also flipping would be necessary


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## Eliyua23 (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> 1. Well, after the fight with Kaidou and Wano, I’m hoping Oda does bloody right thing and has the SH/ alliance stay in Wano for a good month or so, gathering information (what’s happened at the reverie, what happened to sabo etc), resting (everyone should have had the battle of their life) and train even further (M3 train others in haki etc). Immediately after beating Kaidou I expect luffy to jump no more then 6/7 maybe even 8 points, and then maybe another two resting as he does, once they do leave Wano, (luffy close to 90)  luffy will have to face Weevil and/ or an Admiral, if it’s weevil he will solo and go 90+ or he will face an admiral WITH the M3, I will take luffy another arc or one and a half to finally be able to beat a top tier imo (luffy will be an under dog for most of the series till after Raftel when he goes to take down the WG as the new PK).
> 
> 2. I’m one of the few I guess that DOESNT think the old gen got that much weaker given their age (WB, Ray, Garp, Sengoku), at least till pre TS (then their generation ended with WB).
> Prime Old gen imo
> ...



There is a sizable gap between Old WB and Kaido let alone Prime WB just think Luffy is entering a level comparable to characters like Ace/Marco whom would be one shot by Akainu who struggled with Old WB . The only way Kaido is close to WB is if you think Luffy is close to his Prime and considering he’s got Akainu, Teach , WG after this no chance he won’t get tremendously power , people have to face fact that Kaido is simply entry level to the top tiers of One Piece .


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## Beast (May 11, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> There is a sizable gap between Old WB and Kaido let alone Prime WB just think Luffy is entering a level comparable to characters like Ace/Marco whom would be one shot by Akainu who struggled with Old WB . The only way Kaido is close to WB is if you think Luffy is close to his Prime and considering he’s got Akainu, Teach , WG after this no chance he won’t get tremendously power , people have to face fact that Kaido is simply entry level to the top tiers of One Piece .


In you’re head cannon maybe but WB was the strongest yonko till the end. Kaidou won’t do any better to him then Akainu did. 
Marco isn’t 1shot material for anyone minus hand cuffs, and ace is not on the level of current luffy and FM.


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## Duhul10 (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> In you’re head cannon maybe but *WB was the strongest yonko till the end*. Kaidou won’t do any better to him then Akainu did.
> Marco isn’t 1shot material for anyone minus hand cuffs, and ace is not on the level of current luffy and FM.


One head cannon is no better than the other, Mr.MasterBeast

Reactions: Like 2


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## Eliyua23 (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> In you’re head cannon maybe but WB was the strongest yonko till the end. Kaidou won’t do any better to him then Akainu did.
> Marco isn’t 1shot material for anyone minus hand cuffs, and ace is not on the level of current luffy and FM.



You said the Old Age didn’t get much weaker which just isn’t true WB went from Roger’s equal to Shanks clashing evenly with him , the guy needed IV to survive yet you think he’s on par with his peak self , and you say the Peak WB isn’t a massive gap to Kaido which isn’t true as well because current Luffy is no match for even old WB yet he’s facing off against Kaido , yes Old WB was the strongest Yonko and more than likely Shanks is a close second but the fact Luffy is at least going to give Kaido a tough fight let’s me know Kaido isn’t in the ballpark of even Old WB , and no Luffy isn’t that much stronger than Ace and neither was Marco and yes Ace indeed get easily defeated by Akainu and so would Marco .


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## Turrin (May 11, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> That already shows he’s stronger as he’s the one who fought with Akainu to be FM
> 
> 
> Aokiji flipped already so not sure Kizaru also flipping would be necessary


Like I said Aokiji probably > Kizaru, but there is a small chance due to Kizaru character type he is hiding power


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## Beast (May 11, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> You said the Old Age didn’t get much weaker which just isn’t true WB went from Roger’s equal to Shanks clashing evenly with him , the guy needed IV to survive yet you think he’s on par with his peak self , and you say the Peak WB isn’t a massive gap to Kaido which isn’t true as well because current Luffy is no match for even old WB yet he’s facing off against Kaido , yes Old WB was the strongest Yonko and more than likely Shanks is a close second but the fact Luffy is at least going to give Kaido a tough fight let’s me know Kaido isn’t in the ballpark of even Old WB , and no Luffy isn’t that much stronger than Ace and neither was Marco and yes Ace indeed get easily defeated by Akainu and so would Marco .


Lol what? 
Shanks got stronger you mean lol. I would expect a lot of top tiers to be able to do that, heck a young Oden was able to clash evenly with a prime WB, where I would place Shanks around. 
I would say MF WB was 102 like Garp at worse 101, at MF WB was not only holding back but so were all the top tiers there. 
Kaidou 1HKO’d luffy already, so not sure what luffy planning to fight him alongside multiple high tiers is a downplay by any case, luffy isn’t soloing him. 
Ace is YC4 level, he was the snack of the crew, luffy and Marco are far above him and closer to top tiers. Marco is the strongest after WB so not sure what you mean with Ace. Marco was able to stall all three admirals, Akainu nor anyone else could ever treat him like Ace bar prime BB with Yami and gura.


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## Extravlad (May 11, 2020)

Big Mom - 98
Current Teach - ????? Who knows.
Current Luffy - 90
Charlotte Katakuri - 85
Jack the Drought - 75
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 98
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 95
Sakazuki - 99.5
Kuzan - 99
Issho - 97
Borsalino  - 98
Queen the Plague - 80
King the Wildfire - 85
Jozu - 85
Marco - 90
Vista - 80


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## Strobacaxi (May 11, 2020)

Extravlad said:


> Big Mom - 98
> Current Teach - ????? Who knows.
> Current Luffy - 90
> Charlotte Katakuri - 85
> ...



Funny, most people I've seen always assume WB's crew was the weakest of the yonkou to balance the fact that WB was the strongest Yonkou... But you think the opposite, why do you think WB's crew was the strongest yonkou crew?


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## Gomu (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Lol what?
> Shanks got stronger you mean lol. I would expect a lot of top tiers to be able to do that, heck a young Oden was able to clash evenly with a prime WB, where I would place Shanks around.
> I would say MF WB was 102 like Garp at worse 101, at MF WB was not only holding back but so were all the top tiers there.
> Kaidou 1HKO’d luffy already, so not sure what luffy planning to fight him alongside multiple high tiers is a downplay by any case, luffy isn’t soloing him.
> Ace is YC4 level, he was the snack of the crew, luffy and Marco are far above him and closer to top tiers. Marco is the strongest after WB so not sure what you mean with Ace. Marco was able to stall all three admirals, Akainu nor anyone else could ever treat him like Ace bar prime BB with Yami and gura.


Ace... stalemated an attack from Aokiji, he fought Blackbeard to a stalemate before the final clash. 

I don't want to do this survey, I just see that Ace gets a lot of downplay, especially when in Dressrosa he has enough renown to be known to destroy entire cities with his Fire Fist.


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## Extravlad (May 11, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> Funny, most people I've seen always assume WB's crew was the weakest of the yonkou to balance the fact that WB was the strongest Yonkou... But you think the opposite, why do you think WB's crew was the strongest yonkou crew?


Maybe Shanks' crewmates are stronger than Whitebeard's? Oda said something about them having the most "balanced crew". I think they're gonna be pretty even overall tho.
However Marco > Katakuri that much is obvious and I don't think King is up par with him either but we'll see.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eliyua23 (May 11, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Lol what?
> Shanks got stronger you mean lol. I would expect a lot of top tiers to be able to do that, heck a young Oden was able to clash evenly with a prime WB, where I would place Shanks around.
> I would say MF WB was 102 like Garp at worse 101, at MF WB was not only holding back but so were all the top tiers there.
> Kaidou 1HKO’d luffy already, so not sure what luffy planning to fight him alongside multiple high tiers is a downplay by any case, luffy isn’t soloing him.
> Ace is YC4 level, he was the snack of the crew, luffy and Marco are far above him and closer to top tiers. Marco is the strongest after WB so not sure what you mean with Ace. Marco was able to stall all three admirals, Akainu nor anyone else could ever treat him like Ace bar prime BB with Yami and gura.



No top tiers could clash evenly with WB that were at Marine Ford and it’s telling the war didn’t stop until Shanks showed up the guy closest to WB , it was apparent than no one there was even close to stopping WB, doesn’t matter Luffy with the same crew he is taking on BM/Kaido with would get the floor wiped with them the fact HE thinks he can now take Kaido on and more than likely will beat him let’s me know Kaido is far weaker than even Old WB I mean Akainu was far weaker than WB and we haven’t even got to him yet .

Garp cucked down to OWB no way is he close to him more than likely close to a Kaido or Marco .
Ace is close to current Luffy & Marco , he clashed with Teach and was supposed to be equal to Sabo who was equal to Fujitora I’d say yes Marco and Luffy are stronger but not by much and especially not enough to be a threat to Akainu whom is far weaker than WB in his old age .


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## Duhul10 (May 11, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> No top tiers could clash evenly with WB that were at Marine Ford and it’s telling the war didn’t stop until Shanks showed up the guy closest to WB , it was apparent than no one there was even close to stopping WB, doesn’t matter Luffy with the same crew he is taking on BM/Kaido with would get the floor wiped with them the fact *HE thinks he can now take Kaido on and more than likely will beat him let’s me know Kaido is far weaker than even Old WB* I mean Akainu was far weaker than WB and we haven’t even got to him yet .
> 
> Garp cucked down to OWB no way is he close to him more than likely close to a Kaido or Marco .
> 
> Marco is close to current Luffy & Marco , he clashed with Teach and was supposed to be equal to Sabo who was equal to Fujitora I’d say yes Marco and Luffy are stronger but not by much and especially not enough to be a threat to Akainu whom is far weaker than WB in his old age .


you are relying too much on the theory that Luffy is going to take Kaido on and go toe to toe with him and your posts may not age well because of this. Not to mention that the strength tiers may prove to be f*cked up... completely


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## Eliyua23 (May 11, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> you are relying too much on the theory that Luffy is going to take Kaido on and go toe to toe with him and your posts may not age well because of this. Not to mention that the strength tiers may prove to be f*cked up... completely



He’s going to show he can tussle with him or the fight is meaningless

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## Strobacaxi (May 11, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> you are relying too much on the theory that Luffy is going to take Kaido on and go toe to toe with him and your posts may not age well because of this. Not to mention that the strength tiers may prove to be f*cked up... completely


What else do you think will happen? He has to at least put up the best fight Kaidou has had since Oden. I don't know if BM will weaken him, or his son, or even his crew, but Kaidou has to go down this arc, and Luffy is the one to deal the final blow/most damage

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## Duhul10 (May 11, 2020)

I am positive that he won't fight Kaido alone and if he will, in no way would he push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff ( at the very best ), advanced CoA or not. Luffy has many other fields to improve aside from his CoA in order to pose a threat alone. As of now, Kaido is still way too strong and way too fast, while in BASE.

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## Fel1x (May 11, 2020)

Kaido - 100
Roger- 99
Prime WB- from 98,5 to 99,5
Prime Garp- from 96 to 98
BM-97
MF WB- 92

but Kaido will win against any of those 100%. the only difference is difficulty


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## RossellaFiamingo (May 11, 2020)

Big Mom -100.1
Current Teach -95
Current Luffy -80
Charlotte Katakuri -80
Jack the Drought -70
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp -80
Pre timeskip Sengoku -80
Sakazuki -91
Kuzan -90
Issho -90
Borsalino -90
Queen the Plague -75
King the Wildfire -77
Jozu -75
Marco -77
Vista -70

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (May 11, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> I am positive that he won't fight Kaido alone and if he will, in no way would he push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff ( at the very best ), advanced CoA or not. Luffy has many other fields to improve aside from his CoA in order to pose a threat alone. As of now, Kaido is still way too strong and way too fast, while in BASE.


The problem with your logic Duhl is that you think Kaidou is such a chad that it doesn’t even make sense that anyone else present in the arc on Luffy’s team can help Luffy in any meaningful way against Kaidou.


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

Turrin said:


> The problem with your logic Duhl is that you think Kaidou is such a chad that it doesn’t even make sense that anyone else present in the arc on Luffy’s team can help Luffy in any meaningful way against Kaidou.


Yeah, I bet Marco would help Luffy because Ya know, he is stronger than Kaido, isn't he ? I mean that's what you've been shouting around here for entire weeks now. People laugh at you, but at least you try. Thumbs up for that !

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## Gianfi (May 12, 2020)

What about these characters -

Big Mom - 99
Current Teach - 93
Current Luffy - 87
Charlotte Katakuri - 79
Jack the Drought - 75
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 95
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 92
Sakazuki - 97
Kuzan - 96
Issho - 93
Borsalino - 94
Queen the Plague - 78
King the Wildfire - 80
Jozu - 78
Marco - 85
Vista - 74

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (May 12, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> Kaido - 100
> Roger- 99
> Prime WB- from 98,5 to 99,5
> Prime Garp- from 96 to 98
> ...


You gotta keep it realistic mate. Otherwise, no one will buy it.


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## Dark Knight (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> I am positive that he won't fight Kaido alone and if he will, in no way would he push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff ( at the very best ), advanced CoA or not. Luffy has many other fields to improve aside from his CoA in order to pose a threat alone. As of now, Kaido is still way too strong and way too fast, while in BASE.


Would you still hold this perspective if it turns out Kaido's club is made of kairoseki and that luffy did not use FS in their first fight because he was not calm?


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## Strobacaxi (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> Would you still hold this perspective if it turns out Kaido's club is made of kairoseki and that luffy did not use FS in their first fight because he was not calm?


There's no reason Kaidou's weapon would be made of Kairoseki. And Luffy knew he was about to get KO'd, so he most likely used FS


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## Fel1x (May 12, 2020)

Dunno said:


> You gotta keep it realistic mate. Otherwise, no one will buy it.


what is unrealistic here for you?


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## Dark Knight (May 12, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> There's no reason Kaidou's weapon would be made of Kairoseki. And Luffy knew he was about to get KO'd, so he most likely used FS


Wano is a kairoseki haven. For example the kairoseki bullets hawkins used against law. The fact that kaido's underlings specifically hyped the club after luffy is KO'd make me suspicious. Nothing in the fight against kaido conclusively tells us that Luffy used FS.


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## Mylesime (May 12, 2020)

Big Mom -99
Current Teach -93
Current Luffy -90
Charlotte Katakuri -89
Jack the Drought -79
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp -92
Pre timeskip Sengoku -91
Sakazuki -98
Kuzan -97
Issho -95
Borsalino -96
Queen the Plague -86
King the Wildfire -90
Jozu -87
Marco -91
Vista -83

The 100 points for Kaido represent physical strength, power, durability, speed, power of destruction
in other words the complete package of a character.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (May 12, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> what is unrealistic here for you?


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## Fel1x (May 12, 2020)

Dunno said:


>


it's not my problem that most fans think golden generation (Roger, WB and Garp) are automatically stronger than current Yonko without any facts about it. it is called propaganda and you are victims of it. you worship old legends like north korea people worship Kim Jong-un


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> Would you still hold this perspective if it turns out Kaido's club is made of kairoseki and that luffy did not use FS in their first fight because he was not calm?


Yes. The club would still be made of kairoseki and Luffy would still be a df user. Luffy chilled in the last panel before being hit. If he did not use fs, it would be for his own stupidity.


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Ace... stalemated an attack from Aokiji, he fought Blackbeard to a stalemate before the final clash.
> 
> I don't want to do this survey, I just see that Ace gets a lot of downplay, especially when in Dressrosa he has enough renown to be known to destroy entire cities with his Fire Fist.


Yes, Ace cancelled out an attack from Aokiji, wow fire cancels out ice amazing.
BB manhandled him mid diff not sure what you’re talking about, a missed chop from Teach almost broke his damn neck what are you talking about.

Let’s not go on talking about rumours, Ace was snack level which is a good enough hype, when we have characters like bobbin taking out countries for not giving their payment to BM, only to be 1 shot material for base sanji.



Eliyua23 said:


> No top tiers could clash evenly with WB that were at Marine Ford and it’s telling the war didn’t stop until Shanks showed up the guy closest to WB , it was apparent than no one there was even close to stopping WB, doesn’t matter Luffy with the same crew he is taking on BM/Kaido with would get the floor wiped with them the fact HE thinks he can now take Kaido on and more than likely will beat him let’s me know Kaido is far weaker than even Old WB I mean Akainu was far weaker than WB and we haven’t even got to him yet .
> 
> Garp cucked down to OWB no way is he close to him more than likely close to a Kaido or Marco .
> Ace is close to current Luffy & Marco , he clashed with Teach and was supposed to be equal to Sabo who was equal to Fujitora I’d say yes Marco and Luffy are stronger but not by much and especially not enough to be a threat to Akainu whom is far weaker than WB in his old age .


I’m not even sure what it is you’re talking about if I’m honest with you. WB was had no upper hand against any admiral till he was enraged and blindsided Akainu. Kizaru and Aokiji were able to easily clash and even overpower him till Marco or Jozu we’re able to stop them for  A short while.
Akainu was on the same level if not just a little weaker then WB like current Kaidou, he was not highlighted in anyway to be much weaker, Akainu is the one who killed Ace, caused the death of WB and ran BB and his crew off.


Garp didn’t cuck to no one, that’s two piece right thereZ Garp was never meant to get involved in the war, as soon as he did and smacked Marco like no one else in the war (and Marco clashed with all three admirals), sengoku was yelling why he got involved but whats worse is WB, who immediately had to do a vibe check on his crew to get their moral right again lol, Garp didn’t cuck to no one.
As for the rest, that logic is ridiculous and not worth entertaining.


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Big Mom -100.1
> Current Teach -95
> Current Luffy -80
> Charlotte Katakuri -80
> ...


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## Dark Knight (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes. The club would still be made of kairoseki and Luffy would still be a df user. Luffy chilled in the last panel before being hit. If he did not use fs, it would be for his own stupidity.


I wont call it stupidity seeing as he thought his crew had been obliterated and was therefore not calm enough to use COO. But if Luffy didn't use FS in the first fight then that dehypes Kaido's speed feat no? One could argue then that if he had used FS he doesnt get one shot right?


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> I wont call it stupidity seeing as he thought his crew had been obliterated and was therefore not calm enough to use COO. But if Luffy didn't use FS in the first fight then that dehypes Kaido's speed feat no? One could argue then that if he had used FS he doesnt get one shot right?


If it was seastone club, doesn’t matter what these Kaidou fans say, it will be a simple outlier.


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> I wont call it stupidity seeing as he thought his crew had been obliterated and was therefore not calm enough to use COO. But if Luffy didn't use FS in the first fight then that dehypes Kaido's speed feat no? One could argue then that if he had used FS he doesnt get one shot right?


Or one could argue he still does. One could also argue he actually did. What we have is him getting one shot. We will have to wait and see. Of course next time I am expecting him to at least dodge Kaido's attack.


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> Or one could argue he still does. One could also argue he actually did. What we have is him getting one shot. We will have to wait and see. Of course next time I am expecting him to at least dodge Kaido's attack.


Why would expect him to be able to dodge now, if he couldn’t before WHILE using FS? 
Did luffy train another type of KH we don’t know as of yet? 

I think it was pretty clear that luffy was not in the right state of mind to be able to use FS.


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## Dark Knight (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> Or one could argue he still does. One could also argue he actually did. What we have is him getting one shot. We will have to wait and see. Of course next time I am expecting him to at least dodge Kaido's attack.


What I'm getting at is if it is revealed that luffy did not use FS  or that kaido used a kairoseki club when they first fought  then that changes the dynamics of the first fight because it would mean luffy was basically fighting handicapped and that Kaido had a serious weapon's  advantage.Which is why I hazard against making absolute statements like there is in no way would Luffy push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff because things may change and Oda may surprise us.


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## Strobacaxi (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> What I'm getting at is if it is revealed that luffy did not use FS  or that kaido used a kairoseki club when they first fought  then that changes the dynamics of the first fight because it would mean luffy was basically fighting handicapped and that Kaido had a serious weapon's  advantage.Which is why I hazard against making absolute statements like there is in no way would Luffy push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff because things may change and Oda may surprise us.


Dude Kaidou was literally drunk. If anyone was handicapped, it was him.


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Why would expect him to be able to dodge now, if he couldn’t before WHILE using FS?
> Did luffy train another type of KH we don’t know as of yet?
> 
> I think it was pretty clear that luffy was not in the right state of mind to be able to use FS.


Well, story progression + the fact that Luffy will now know about Kaido's aggressive style and he will be more cautious. It is not actually pretty clear at all. Luffy turned his anger into surprise when Kaido got up without a scratch. This was shown in the last panel before getting hit.


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> What I'm getting at is if it is revealed that luffy did not use FS  or that kaido used a kairoseki club when they first fought  then that changes the dynamics of the first fight because it would mean luffy was basically fighting handicapped and that Kaido had a serious weapon's  advantage.Which is why I hazard against making absolute statements like there is in no way would Luffy push a serious sober Kaido past mid diff because things may change and Oda may surprise us.


Well, Kaido was not really sober. He got sober later on.
The damage is still there. Luffy's forehead did not get any tougher.
If it is revealed that Luffy did not use FS, then yes you could make a point that maybe, just maybe he could dodge that. Think about the fact that not only did Luffy not dodge or block, he didn't even react, so the gap is pretty massive.


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> Well, story progression + the fact that Luffy will now know about Kaido's aggressive style and he will be more cautious. It is not actually pretty clear at all. Luffy turned his anger into surprise when Kaido got up without a scratch. This was shown in the last panel before getting hit.


What’s not so clear? 
That Fs does not work when under stress or maybe you think luffy forgot about his crew being blasted into an oblivion because Kaidou got up?


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> What’s not so clear?
> That Fs does not work when under stress or maybe you think luffy forgot about his crew being blasted into an oblivion because Kaidou got up?


I only "think" what it was shown and what it was shown was that Luffy's anger turned into surprise. Plus he did not move a muscle. The gap in speed is very, very big. Also, how do we know Kaido does not have future sight, now that we are making assumptions ?


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## Beast (May 12, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> I only "think" what it was shown and what it was shown was that Luffy's anger turned into surprise. Plus he did not move a muscle. The gap in speed is very, very big. Also, how do we know Kaido does not have future sight now that we are making assumptions ?


So, you clearly left you comprehensive skills at home today, so don’t worry, do what you do best.


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## Duhul10 (May 12, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> So, you clearly left you comprehensive skills at home today, so don’t worry, do what you do best.


Or in other words: ''let me retreat now, before I embarrass myself''


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## Eliyua23 (May 12, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Yes, Ace cancelled out an attack from Aokiji, wow fire cancels out ice amazing.
> BB manhandled him mid diff not sure what you’re talking about, a missed chop from Teach almost broke his damn neck what are you talking about.
> 
> Let’s not go on talking about rumours, Ace was snack level which is a good enough hype, when we have characters like bobbin taking out countries for not giving their payment to BM, only to be 1 shot material for base sanji.
> ...



So Luffy can take on a guy that can clash evenly with 3 admirals ?


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## Gomu (May 12, 2020)

Dark Knight said:


> Would you still hold this perspective if it turns out Kaido's club is made of kairoseki and that luffy did not use FS in their first fight because he was not calm?


He wouldn't even be able to transform if it was...



MasterBeast said:


> Yes, Ace cancelled out an attack from Aokiji, wow fire cancels out ice amazing.
> BB manhandled him mid diff not sure what you’re talking about, a missed chop from Teach almost broke his damn neck what are you talking about.
> 
> Let’s not go on talking about rumours, Ace was snack level which is a good enough hype, when we have characters like bobbin taking out countries for not giving their payment to BM, only to be 1 shot material for base sanji.
> ...


@MasterBeast

Smart ass... Aokiji can fight against a "superior" version of the Mera Mera no Mi...

That's not manhandling, it just means Blackbeard has sufficient physical strength to hurt Ace... What happened to Luffy was manhandling when he was fighting Kaido, Ace's fight with Blackbeard was nowhere near a mid difficulty or curbstomp, Blackbeard was struggling just as much as Ace was, it's why they placed all their effort into single attacks instead of just fighting tooth and nail like they were.

We don't even know what the fuck Snack can do, yet you're talking about "rumors", I hope you see the irony in that. Ace is known for destroying entire cities with his Fire Fist technique, something most characters aren't known for, including Snack.



Fel1x said:


> it's not my problem that most fans think golden generation (Roger, WB and Garp) are automatically stronger than current Yonko without any facts about it. it is called propaganda and you are victims of it. you worship old legends like north korea people worship Kim Jong-un



@Fel1x 

Let's take a minute to understand this. The old generation found One Piece. Whitebeard even as old as he was, was the closest to finding One Piece. Big Mom states she needs help (from the Giants) to get to One Piece and beat the other Yonkou while Roger and his crew alone, set sail into One Piece (w/ help from Oden). Shanks stops Kaidou from coming to the war despite his supposed "power" above these Yonkou. Teach just became a Yonkou, yet has the strongest fruit from the previous generation. I'm pretty sure Oda was trying to tell you something...


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## Gokou08 (May 12, 2020)

The way i see it, goes like this

Big Mom -95
Current Teach -93
Current Luffy -78
Charlotte Katakuri -73
Jack the Drought -70
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp -91
Pre timeskip Sengoku -89
Sakazuki -96~98
Kuzan -95~97
Issho -94
Borsalino -95~97
Queen the Plague -72
King the Wildfire -75
Jozu -72
Marco -75
Vista -73

Reactions: Like 1


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## hajimehipo (May 13, 2020)

The kaido disrespect in this thread stinks


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## Lord Melkor (May 14, 2020)

Let's say that difference 1-2 represents extreme difficulty, 5 represents high difficulty and 10 medium difficulty.

Big Mom - 99
Current Teach - 97
Current Luffy - 92
Charlotte Katakuri - 86
Jack the Drought - 82
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 98
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 94
Sakazuki - 98
Kuzan - 96
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 96
Queen the Plague - 85
King the Wildfire - 88
Jozu - 86
Marco - 91
Vista - 84

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> Kaido - 100
> Roger- 99
> Prime WB- from 98,5 to 99,5
> Prime Garp- from 96 to 98
> ...


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## Dunno (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


>


Look at what Yonkouism does to people. Better come over to the side of good before it's too late.


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Look at what Yonkouism does to people. *Better come over to the side of good* before it's too late.


What side?Roger´s?


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## Dunno (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


> What side?Roger´s?


Any other side would work. The Old Gen side, the Admiral side, The Mihawk side, the Usopp side, even the Shanks side to some extent. All sides are the good side except the Yonkou side.


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Any other side would work. The Old Gen side, the Admiral side, The Mihawk side, the Usopp side, even the *Shanks* side to some extent. All sides are the good side except the Yonkou side.


But Shanks is a Yonkou


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## Dunno (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


> But Shanks is a Yonkou


He's half Yonkou, half WG agent, half ginger. It's a peculiar situation.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 14, 2020)

Big Mom - 95
Current Teach - 91
Current Luffy - 82
Charlotte Katakuri - 79
Jack the Drought - 73
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 93
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 90
Sakazuki - 98
Kuzan - 97
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 95
Queen the Plague - 75
King the Wildfire - 80
Jozu - 77
Marco - 82
Vista - 76


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> He's half Yonkou, half WG agent, half ginger. It's a peculiar situation.


But the Yonkous looks way cooler

BM´s Alice in Wonderland theme is nice


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## Gianfi (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Any other side would work. The Old Gen side, the Admiral side, The Mihawk side, the Usopp side, even the Shanks side to some extent. All sides are the good side except the Yonkou side.


Yonko side= Oda canon side. Rest has the same value as those people who still stick to the earth centric theory


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Yonko is basically only referring to Kaidou and BM who are failures of top tier pirates. 

Shanks is not interested in the OP or PK or conquering anything, he is a man linked to the WG and luffy the MC, probably a gate keeper of sorts. 

WB the legend, PK in his own right without needing to visit Raftel, strength and Chrisma towering over the marines, WG, and just about every pirate. 

BB the reborn xebec (Kaidou and Bms master), the man who will probably reach Raftel alongside luffy. A man chosen by destiny and a D. 

Yonko aka Kaidou and BM are jacked up idiots in short. Seems like it’s more plot that kept both alive for so long considering how braindead they actually are.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Any other side would work. The Old Gen side, the Admiral side, The Mihawk side, the Usopp side, even the Shanks side to some extent. All sides are the good side except the Yonkou side.


before Kaido, admiral fans flamed hard over WB, because he defeated Akainu
now you are kinda supporting him because there is Kaido who clearly shows the gap between Yonko and admirals
you even trying to say sick pierced MF WB was still the strongest Yonko compared to any current


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> before Kaido, admiral fans flamed hard over WB, because he defeated Akainu
> now you are kinda supporting him because there is Kaido who clearly shows the gap between Yonko and admirals
> you even trying to say sick pierced MF WB was still the strongest Yonko compared to any current


What has Kaidou done that is above young, prime or old WB?


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> What has Kaidou done that is above young, prime or old WB?


I'm really tired of saying it all over again whenever Kaido's topic pops up but ok:
oneshotted FM level character called Luffy, oneshotted admiral to Yonko level character called Oden, who was hyped hard for his endurance, got the title WSC who is above any creature including human , got praised by Oden who told that no one can defeat him, "one on one, always bet on Kaido"

and he has done it in his base. without using his fruit. yeah, I mean hybrid form, which boosts the user like 2x strong. Based on every Zoan user. that is a fact


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## Corax (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> I'm really tired of saying it all over again whenever Kaido's topic pops up but ok:
> oneshotted FM level character called Luffy, oneshotted admiral to Yonko level character called Oden, who was hyped hard for his endurance, got the title WSC who is above any creature including human , got praised by Oden who told that no one can defeat him, "one on one, always bet on Kaido"
> 
> and he has done it in his base. without using his fruit. yeah, I mean hybrid form, which boosts the user like 2x strong. Based on every Zoan user. that is a fact


I have to prove that WB can't one shot for example King or Katakuri if his Gura connects. Or can't one shot Oden if Gura quake hits the back of his head. But you can't. So this so called feat is so so.


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> I'm really tired of saying it all over again whenever Kaido's topic pops up but ok:
> oneshotted FM level character called Luffy, oneshotted admiral to Yonko level character called Oden, who was hyped hard for his endurance, got the title WSC who is above any creature including human , got praised by Oden who told that no one can defeat him, "one on one, always bet on Kaido"
> 
> and he has done it in his base. without using his fruit. yeah, I mean hybrid form, which boosts the user like 2x strong. Based on every Zoan user. that is a fact


So, you got... Mainly lies. Oden wasn’t 1HKO’d, so what’s next?
So, Kaidou is the WSC and the worlds strongest being, is more dangerous (to the civilansnas well as marines and pirates alike) then WB (WB is a good guy and even ran from marines) but still has a lower bounty then WB... he is less of a threat, then a peaceful man, who is also weaker then him? Listen mate, you’re gonna have to do better, and as in better, I mean drop the whole thing.

So, for Oden’s words to make sense... Oden is stronger then WB and Roger even though he was blown to the side like garbage? Oden almost killed Kaidou and was only beaten because of a distraction, yet no one else could beat him? Was Oden the WSM or am I missing something? 

Yes, always bet on Kaidou in a 1v1 unless it’s on panel. 1v1 against Oden and he got help from the granny, 1v1 against a nerfed BM and still couldn’t beat her.

Kaidou was beaten multiple times in his full dragon form and as shit as Oda is, he is only saving the hybrid for none other then the Wano fight. Let me ask you something, have you even seen WB throw a named attack? Or maybe You’ve seen Garp throw a named attack? That’s the level of logic you’re using, not one top tier has been shown on panel going all out, Admirals haven’t even shown us their awakening but of course all that matters is hybrid form Kaidou.

So, again... just one more time I’ll ask, what has Kaidou done and not what he has been rumoured to do?
Right now, you’ve only got 1HKO on luffy, and that’s isnt a hard task.


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Yonko is basically only referring to Kaidou and BM who are failures of top tier pirates.
> 
> Shanks is not interested in the OP or PK or conquering anything, he is a man linked to the WG and luffy the MC, probably a gate keeper of sorts.
> 
> ...


And Admiral is basically only referring to Kizaru right?


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> So, you got... Mainly lies. Oden wasn’t 1HKO’d, so what’s next?
> So, Kaidou is the WSC and the worlds strongest being, is more dangerous (to the civilansnas well as marines and pirates alike) then WB (WB is a good guy and even ran from marines) but still has a lower bounty then WB... he is less of a threat, then a peaceful man, who is also weaker then him? Listen mate, you’re gonna have to do better, and as in better, I mean drop the whole thing.
> 
> So, for Oden’s words to make sense... Oden is stronger then WB and Roger even though he was blown to the side like garbage? Oden almost killed Kaidou and was only beaten because of a distraction, yet no one else could beat him? Was Oden the WSM or am I missing something?
> ...


1) bounty. WB is older, and I think he created his crew much earlier. and became serious WG's enemy. simply because he became Roger's rival when Roger was still alive. In my point of view, this is the reason for his higher bounty. another reason is his fruit. he himself might be peaceful, but his fruit was know as "DF that can destroy the world". and also I would like to say that bounties don't mean much
2) almost killed? what do you even mean? in Jack vs Ashura fight, Jack too was almost killed? because the damage done in both fights are pretty much the same. no internal organs were damaged to call this a serious wound. the only serious thing is that Oden was able to even cut him with the durability Kaido has.
so Luffy too almost killed Kaido? distracted or not I think Oden could get the same treatment as Luffy after Kaido switches to base. Yes, I can't prove it. just like you can't prove this couldn't happened.
nerfed BM? how was she nerfed? you call BM nerfed because she doesn't have Zeus now? lol. Zeus won't help her against top tiers
3) named attack? why even melee fighter have to have some named attack? some shonnen stereotype? why do you think admirals have their awakening? any proofs? or just "they are top tiers they surely has it"? why they didn't use it in MF against your lord and savior WB, who you approve as strongest even in MF? Akainu dropped some meteors, may be it is his awakening? have you ever seen more than 1 awakening in OP to truly detect it?  and why can't Kaido have the awakening he hasn't showed yet?

if you want to spit facts, spit them and don't speculate with awakening or named attacks. Kaido has his hybrid form, that is a fact. awakenings and named attacks are just your speculation and stereotypes



Edit: ah, yeah, forgot your arguments about Oden wasn't KOed


how is he not KOed with his head on the ground unconscious? yeah, good for him he wasn't immediately KOed, but he became few seconds later


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## Dunno (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


> But the Yonkous looks way cooler
> 
> BM´s Alice in Wonderland theme is nice


To each his own. Just try to stay vigilant. 



Fel1x said:


> before Kaido, admiral fans flamed hard over WB, because he defeated Akainu
> now you are kinda supporting him because there is Kaido who clearly shows the gap between Yonko and admirals
> you even trying to say sick pierced MF WB was still the strongest Yonko compared to any current


I have never flamed WB. As you might know, I'm firmly of the opinion that WB was the WSM, just like Oda stated. Most Admiral fans agree that WB was the strongest man alive before the war. The only people who question his superiority are those who don't believe in Oda's words, and believe that their favourite character was stronger. As far as I've seen, those people are more often than not fans of other Yonkou. WSM > All men, you can go back to my 2012 posts and check if you'd like. 



Gianfi said:


> Yonko side= Oda canon side. Rest has the same value as those people who still stick to the earth centric theory


Oda's canon is that Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world when he was introduced.


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## Nighty the Mighty (May 14, 2020)

Big Mom - 100
Current Teach - 95
Current Luffy - 90
Charlotte Katakuri - 85
Jack the Drought - 75
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 95
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 90
Sakazuki - 100
Kuzan - 95
Issho - 90
Borsalino - 90
Queen the Plague - 80
King the Wildfire - 85
Jozu - 85
Marco - 90
Vista - 80

Undisputed manga canon.


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


> And Admiral is basically only referring to Kizaru right?


umm... I guess, If you’re referring to the C3, Kizaru is the only admiral. 


Fel1x said:


> 1) bounty. WB is older, and I think he created his crew much earlier. and became serious WG's enemy. simply because he became Roger's rival when Roger was still alive. In my point of view, this is the reason for his higher bounty. another reason is his fruit. he himself might be peaceful, but his fruit was know as "DF that can destroy the world". and also I would like to say that bounties don't mean much
> 2) almost killed? what do you even mean? in Jack vs Ashura fight, Jack too was almost killed? because the damage done in both fights are pretty much the same. no internal organs were damaged to call this a serious wound. the only serious thing is that Oden was able to even cut him with the durability Kaido has.
> so Luffy too almost killed Kaido? distracted or not I think Oden could get the same treatment as Luffy after Kaido switches to base. Yes, I can't prove it. just like you can't prove this couldn't happened.
> nerfed BM? how was she nerfed? you call BM nerfed because she doesn't have Zeus now? lol. Zeus won't help her against top tiers
> ...


1. Kaidou and WB were on the same ship, they started their own piratehood around the same time, once Rox was already destroyed anymore is nothing less then fanfic. BM started her journey around the same time but it was only ever WB, Shiki and Roger till, that era ended. 
So, 1 is basically a cry for help because you have no reasons for why WBs bounty is much higher then Kaidous? 

2. Umm... not sure what you mean, Oden did leave a permanent scar, and would have done more if not for the old lady. You’re drawing for straws, so ima leave this one as well. You’re walking yourself into a wall... by yourself mate. 

3. Okay, since you want to go that route, how do you know that Kaidou has a hybrid form?  
Everyone and their mothers should have awakening if they mastered their fruit (admirals were the first to be mentioned at mastering their fruits), and named attacks are apart of everyone’s arsenal as much as ‘hybrid’ form is for Zoans, I’m starting to see that you might not be taking this seriously, we’ve seen the admirals after effect of awakening, and we’ve seen DD as well as Katakuri use awakening, so not sure what you mean by one person. 
And you might not remember, which seems like a reoccurring theme with you, but Zoan awakening was already shown in EL with the guards, they just get more durability and endurance on top nothing more. 


So, if it’s fact... please provide everyone here with ‘hybrid’ Kaidou. 

1HKO= To knock out in one hit. 

Second to bottoms left panel, Oden is already bleeding from his head Before Kaidou even got up to do his attack.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> umm... I guess, If you’re referring to the C3, Kizaru is the only admiral.
> 1. Kaidou and WB were on the same ship, they started their own piratehood around the same time, once Rox was already destroyed anymore is nothing less then fanfic. BM started her journey around the same time but it was only ever WB, Shiki and Roger till, that era ended.
> So, 1 is basically a cry for help because you have no reasons for why WBs bounty is much higher then Kaidous?
> 
> ...


basically your post: 50% flaming like "cry for help (despite you using this very doubtful arguments as bounty and ignoring facts like WB becoming Roger's rival, his DF and the difference of age and so on)"."walking yourself into a wall", "reoccurring theme with you"

20% "not sure what you mean" and so on just because you have to ignore that because you don't even have counter arguments. oh no, actually you have your great argument, "permanent scar". what an argument. do I really have to comment an argument like that? seriously?

25% fanfiction and trying to manipulate my point of view with some worthless information about awakenings that has nothing to do with the topic of discussion. now I think why I even tried to answer it first of all, you won't trick me again

5% trying to fix your mistake by trying hard to state that Oden was damaged hard before. another trap layed by you. KO is KO. he was KOed from 1 hit. I won't fall for your obfuscation

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> basically your post: 50% flaming like "cry for help (despite you using this very doubtful arguments as bounty and ignoring facts like WB becoming Roger's rival, his DF and the difference of age and so on)"."walking yourself into a wall", "reoccurring theme with you"
> 
> 20% "not sure what you mean" and so on just because you have to ignore that because you don't even have counter arguments. oh no, actually you have your great argument, "permanent scar". what an argument. do I really have to comment an argument like that? seriously?
> 
> ...


 

And that’s without any distractions or help.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> basically your post: 50% flaming like "cry for help (despite you using this very doubtful arguments as bounty and ignoring facts like WB becoming Roger's rival, his DF and the difference of age and so on)"."walking yourself into a wall", "reoccurring theme with you"
> 
> 20% "not sure what you mean" and so on just because you have to ignore that because you don't even have counter arguments. oh no, actually you have your great argument, "permanent scar". what an argument. do I really have to comment an argument like that? seriously?
> 
> ...


That sounds more like you.

You keep using "he oneshot an Admiral level character" in your arguments, why can't he use the fact that Oden gave him a scar. Double standards...

Awakening will probably be pivotal in the story going forward after this battle, Kaido may even have an awakening later on as he is implied to be an extremely powerful Zoan wielder and Zoans have the potential to awaken just as any other type.

And Kaido was downed and about to have his head cut off or given another perilous wound from a guy known for not holding back against characters like a rampaging pig or a man sitting on a beach trying to understand where the fuck he is.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> And that’s without any distractions or help.


well, if it is a battle of pics and you just ignore my text, I will try to counter it again but with images


Jack was ready to fight again.  just like Kaido


you know what happened next. And that’s without any distractions or help.


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> well, if it is a battle of pics and you just ignore my text, I will try to counter it again but with images
> 
> 
> Jack was ready to fight again.  just like Kaido
> ...


Barely comparable but lucky for Jack, he isn’t got a rumour about being 1v1 king. 

There is nothing remotely similar between Luffy blindsiding Kaidou with a punch and Oden gutting Kaidou like a pig.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> well, if it is a battle of pics and you just ignore my text, I will try to counter it again but with images
> 
> 
> Jack was ready to fight again.  just like Kaido
> ...


Except Ashura Douji didn't perform a life ending wound on this guy, and Oden was supposedly superior to Ashura Douji even now with his feats.

That's not even the same situation. Luffy was inferior to Oden in every way at this point, still is.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Barely comparable but lucky for Jack, he isn’t got a rumour about being 1v1 king.
> 
> There is nothing remotely similar between Luffy blindsiding Kaidou with a punch and Oden gutting Kaidou like a pig.


ah, ok. you just hating. haters gonna hate. why even waste my time then?


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> ah, ok. you just hating. haters gonna hate. why even waste my time then?


Maybe because you can't answer his questions because you don't have anything relevant. It's funny how that works, he's  hater because you have nothing to produce that fights what he has to say.


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## Corax (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> well, if it is a battle of pics and you just ignore my text, I will try to counter it again but with images
> 
> 
> Jack was ready to fight again.  just like Kaido
> ...


Different situation. Jack wasn't laying on the ground with white eyes and waiting for Asura to kill him.


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Fel1x said:


> ah, ok. you just hating. haters gonna hate. why even waste my time then?


I’m still wait for this factual ‘hybrid’ Kaidou, you keep talking about.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

Corax said:


> Different situation. Jack wasn't laying on the ground with white eyes and waiting for Asura to kill him.


but Kaido vs Luffy was

you guys just trying to win this situation but you don't realize you are cornered with facts. you can't win my arguments
just bring your white flag already. I have manga on my side

different people but almost the same discussion strategy. trying hard to exaggerate Kaido's wound like he has his guts on the outside. 
Even Oda wrote Kaido vs Oden and Kaido vs Luffy only for 1 thing. past, present and future symbolism. Luffy did what Oden did, got the same treatment. but in the future Luffy gonna break this limit and surpass Oden by successfully defeating Kaido.


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## Fel1x (May 14, 2020)

and yeah: one more thing to add. Luffy won't repeat Oden's mistake in the future. he will surpass him mentally too

Luffy will realize Kaido can't be defeated 1 on 1, so he gonna team-up with a group that has a tiny chance to defeat him together


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## Etherborn (May 14, 2020)

Big Mom - 100
Current Teach - 95
Current Luffy - 75-80
Charlotte Katakuri - 60
Jack the Drought - 45
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 99
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 90
Sakazuki - 100
Kuzan - 95
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 95
Queen the Plague - 50
King the Wildfire - 60
Jozu - 55
Marco - 65
Vista - 55


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## Steven (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> umm... I guess, If you’re referring to the C3


No,to the current Admirals


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

Acno said:


> No,to the current Admirals


Then no you’re wrong. All three admirals bar GB we don’t know as of yet, play their positions of admiral.... so, what’s your point again?


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## Strobacaxi (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Except Ashura Douji didn't perform a life ending wound on this guy



No evidence of Oden doing that to Kaidou either. Kaidou is alive and well, and he got up in a few seconds.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> No evidence of Oden doing that to Kaidou either. Kaidou is alive and well, and he got up in a few seconds.


Pretty sure before he got up he was writhing on the fucking ground in pain.

*You know that scar Luffy has, post skip? It's thanks to Akainu inflicting a heavy wound on Luffy during Marineford. "He got up fine" was him bleeding profusely. He would have not fell bleeding and writhing like that if he didn't feel the pain from Oden's slashes.


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## Duhul10 (May 14, 2020)

white eyes mean sh*te. Kaido had them against Luffy and he was only tickled. Also, Jack vs Ashura is the exact same situation. Jack then reacted very well after the cut in spite of clearly being hurt.

Kaido was clearly hurt by the cut but injuries happen in a fight. Oden himself was only expecting Kaido to leave the land even after cutting him.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Yah no way Teach could be showing respect for someone weaker then him. No way Teach could be referring to Kaidou simply being not human.
> 
> No way someone who got wrecked by an FV candidate could be close to the current arc Villain.
> 
> That some solid close minded staning bruv


So being fv candidate means you already have EOS strength when you wreck someone before the middle point of the series? Ok bb.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Pretty sure before he got up he was writhing on the fucking ground in pain.
> 
> *You know that scar Luffy has, post skip? It's thanks to Akainu inflicting a heavy wound on Luffy during Marineford. "He got up fine" was him bleeding profusely. He would have not fell bleeding and writhing like that if he didn't feel the pain from Oden's slashes.


Luffy didnt ''get up'' he was getting carried. Kaido on the other hand, got up and ran towards oden AND clubbed him with enough force to almost one shot him.


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> So being fv candidate means you already have EOS strength when you wreck someone before the middle point of the series? Ok bb.


No it means you are likely to be very strong at any point in the series. Having 2 of the Strongest DF in the series helps too.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I’m just here for the OL’s collective post wano tears and damage control


How many times are you gonna clown yourself before you feel its enough?



Corax said:


> Oda did a good job at dehyping so currently:
> Big Mom - at full power 105
> Current Teach - 105
> Current Luffy - 80
> ...


Its only dehyping if you dont believe oden is a top tier and that kaido didnt get stronger in the span of 20 years when all things point towards that he did.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> How many times are you gonna clown yourself before you feel its enough?


How many times are you going to stan yourself out for a villain that is going to be obviously eclipsed by Akainu, Teach, and IM.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Eliyua23 said:


> No top tiers could clash evenly with WB that were at Marine Ford and it’s telling the war didn’t stop until Shanks showed up the guy closest to WB , it was apparent than no one there was even close to stopping WB, doesn’t matter Luffy with the same crew he is taking on BM/Kaido with would get the floor wiped with them the fact HE thinks he can now take Kaido on and more than likely will beat him let’s me know Kaido is far weaker than even Old WB I mean Akainu was far weaker than WB and we haven’t even got to him yet .
> 
> Garp cucked down to OWB no way is he close to him more than likely close to a Kaido or Marco .
> Ace is close to current Luffy & Marco , he clashed with Teach and was supposed to be equal to Sabo who was equal to Fujitora I’d say yes Marco and Luffy are stronger but not by much and especially not enough to be a threat to Akainu whom is far weaker than WB in his old age .


The ace novel litteraly states that kaido is stronger than old healthy whitebeard as a fighter, let alone sick and dying MF one.



Turrin said:


> How many times are you going to stan yourself out for a villain that is going to be obviously eclipsed by Akainu, Teach, and IM.


I dont stan, i follow what the story and the author tells me instead of just disregarding them all and going by headcanon like you. Once kaido is proven not to be the strongest, then i will move on like a normal human being. But see, nothing is proving it right now, its the contrary.

And blackbeard is obviously gonna be stronger EOS, that doesnt mean kaido right now cant be the strongest.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Luffy didnt ''get up'' he was getting carried. Kaido on the other hand, got up and ran towards oden AND clubbed him with enough force to almost one shot him.


He didn't run towards Oden, he turned and struck him with his club because he was already by Kaido.

You can see Kaido's stomach and scales in the lower left hand corner. He was literally in front of him prepared to cut him again.

*Spoiler*: __ 









Not even Kaido knew that the witch had done it because he was so focused on striking Oden. Let's not give him feats he didn't have guys, dude was also bleeding from his mouth, meaning it inflicted internal damage.

So he has a gash on his abdomen and he's bleeding from his mouth. I wonder what that means. Kaido's "toughness" isn't in question, it's the fact that he fell to an attack that made him writhe in pain and it was near his valuable organs.

If you need an understanding, Luffy is struck by Katakuri's Mogu on his left side.

*Spoiler*: __ 








Human body:
*Spoiler*: __ 








Maybe it's because I understand the human body a bit better than some of you guys who don't understand there are organs. If you want to call it a "life-threatening wound" fine, but Oden struck towards the vitals no matter what. The scar is also right at Kaido's right-most ribs showcasing this. He got more than just broken bones, lol.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> 1. Well, after the fight with Kaidou and Wano, I’m hoping Oda does bloody right thing and has the SH/ alliance stay in Wano for a good month or so, gathering information (what’s happened at the reverie, what happened to sabo etc), resting (everyone should have had the battle of their life) and train even further (M3 train others in haki etc). Immediately after beating Kaidou I expect luffy to jump no more then 6/7 maybe even 8 points, and then maybe another two resting as he does, once they do leave Wano, (luffy close to 90)  luffy will have to face Weevil and/ or an Admiral, if it’s weevil he will solo and go 90+ or he will face an admiral WITH the M3, I will take luffy another arc or one and a half to finally be able to beat a top tier imo (luffy will be an under dog for most of the series till after Raftel when he goes to take down the WG as the new PK).
> 
> 2. I’m one of the few I guess that DOESNT think the old gen got that much weaker given their age (WB, Ray, Garp, Sengoku), at least till pre TS (then their generation ended with WB).
> Prime Old gen imo
> ...


Didnt hakilless amnesiac big mom 2 hitting queen and putting him out of commission for a chapter kinda debunk the outlier part? If she used haki and her df im sure he wouldve been put down for good. As for luffy, the only reason he wouldnt get one shot maybe would be using fs but thats just stalling. It still means one hit= dead.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I dont stan, i follow what the story and the author tells me instead of just disregarding them all and going by headcanon like you. Once kaido is proven not to be the strongest, then i will move on like a normal human being. But see, nothing is proving it right now, its the contrary.
> 
> And blackbeard is obviously gonna be stronger EOS, that doesnt mean kaido right now cant be the strongest.


That’s fine bruv; I have no problem with you thinking Kaidou is the strongest. I call you a Stan because you refuse to admit that in terms of actual accomplishments Kaidou has nothing that backs up his hype; and you over-exaggerate his actual accomplishments, while downplaying his defeats. You also act like the fact that Kaidou hype could be false or there are other interpretation is some crazy concept, when it isn’t.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> *Ace... stalemated an attack from Aokiji*, he fought Blackbeard to a stalemate before the final clash.
> 
> I don't want to do this survey, I just see that Ace gets a lot of downplay, especially when in Dressrosa he has enough renown to be known to destroy entire cities with his Fire Fist.


That was anime filler.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> That was anime filler.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> That’s fine bruv; I have no problem with you thinking Kaidou is the strongest. I call you a Stan because you refuse to admit that in terms of actual accomplishments Kaidou has nothing that backs up his hype; and you over-exaggerate his actual accomplishments, while downplaying his defeats. You also act like the fact that Kaidou hype could be false or there are other interpretation is some crazy concept, when it isn’t.


Only ''defeat'' he suffered on screen was oden, and even that was dubious at best. His ''feats'' incllude falling down 10km and only suffering a minor headache, one shotting a FM character when no other top tier has been shown doing so, they couldnt even put down regular YC. Him tanking said FM attacks and getting no damage. Other top tiers hyping him up, orochi shooting cp0 to their faces and telling them that if anyone came they couldnt do shit because he has kaido backing him up, which made the CP0 shudder. Same CP0 that had no problems going after blackbeard and dragon.
The ace novel stating that he was the stronger fighter between him and WB at the time. Him having the highest bounty, him being highlighted for having grew to yonko level by strength alone. No relying on crew or bs like that. Just him.

Oda bringing him up in relation to strength in a question that had nothing to do with him but had akainu in it. 

His offscreen defeats mean nothing, as we dont know the context of them. Luffy suffered multiple defeats yet he will become the strongest. People grow in strength my friend, they arent stattic. I could go on but i wont.

I do agree that it is your opinion, but sometimes i read ridiculous stuff from you. It is my bad, i shouldnt get rilled up like this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Huh, i heard that that scene was anime filler. You learn something new everyday.



Eliyua23 said:


> He’s going to show he can tussle with him or the fight is meaningless


Why so? The prophecy spells it out for you, figures will take out kaido. Not a figure. It also doesnt make sense logically nor powerscalling wise. Why is it bad for luffy to team up on kaido( where it was shown he had no problem accepting help from others and it would be a parralel to oden losing because he didnt accept help whereas luffy would) and defeating him, then going on to fight a top tier later on 1vs1 or 1vs2. Its called organic growth.



Dark Knight said:


> Wano is a kairoseki haven. For example the kairoseki bullets hawkins used against law. The fact that kaido's underlings specifically hyped the club after luffy is KO'd make me suspicious. Nothing in the fight against kaido conclusively tells us that Luffy used FS.


Kaido's club clashed with napoleon. It is not kairoseki.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gianfi (May 14, 2020)

Dunno said:


> To each his own. Just try to stay vigilant.
> 
> 
> I have never flamed WB. As you might know, I'm firmly of the opinion that WB was the WSM, just like Oda stated. Most Admiral fans agree that WB was the strongest man alive before the war. The only people who question his superiority are those who don't believe in Oda's words, and believe that their favourite character was stronger. As far as I've seen, those people are more often than not fans of other Yonkou. WSM > All men, you can go back to my 2012 posts and check if you'd like.
> ...


and now it is Kaido. Kaido>Admirals. Also as per canon BM is a rival to Kaido, so Kaido>=BM>Admirals. So that's settled in stone for now


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Huh, i heard that that scene was anime filler. You learn something new everyday.


That's why I love when debates are productive, and not just "I feel like this is true" with no evidence shit. It irks me. If you ever need me to show my hand, don't hesitate to ask. I try to have reasonable conclusions to what I say, not this bullshit "lol because I believe it".


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## Beast (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Didnt hakilless amnesiac big mom 2 hitting queen and putting him out of commission for a chapter kinda debunk the outlier part? If she used haki and her df im sure he wouldve been put down for good. As for luffy, the only reason he wouldnt get one shot maybe would be using fs but thats just stalling. It still means one hit= dead.



You make an excellent point. 
I just know it won’t add up when the SNs take on Kaidou together and you have multiple either block or dodge said attack.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> You make an excellent point.
> I just know it won’t add up when the SNs take on Kaidou together and you have multiple either block or dodge said attack.


Thats why law is there imo, to tp people in and out while they attack him. And also the reason luffy learned future sight. To dodge. Itll be like a raid boss battle with multiple characters taking potshots. Ofc kaido will get some little by little until by the end only luffy/kidd and law are left standing to finish him off.


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## Strobacaxi (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Pretty sure before he got up he was writhing on the fucking ground in pain.
> 
> *You know that scar Luffy has, post skip? It's thanks to Akainu inflicting a heavy wound on Luffy during Marineford. "He got up fine" was him bleeding profusely. He would have not fell bleeding and writhing like that if he didn't feel the pain from Oden's slashes.



From the images you posted on the next post, Kaidou was definitely not writhing on the ground in pain. He was just on the ground. He was severely hurt, no doubt, but considering a second later he got up and had enough strength to one shot Oden, it was very far from a life ending wound.

Sorry, but Kaidou was bleeding about as much as DD after getting Red Hawked, he definitely wasn't bleeding profusely.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> From the images you posted on the next post, Kaidou was definitely not writhing on the ground in pain. He was just on the ground. He was severely hurt, no doubt, but considering a second later he got up and had enough strength to one shot Oden, it was very far from a life ending wound.
> 
> Sorry, but Kaidou was bleeding about as much as DD after getting Red Hawked, he definitely wasn't bleeding profusely.


Oh wow... So... do you think when Doflamingo was Gamma Knifed, it wasn't a life-threatening injury, him getting stabbed into his organs or... And don't use the "stillness" of panels to deny such a thing either. He literally fell to the ground and was writhing. If you can't tell that, you're just making your own conclusions.


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Only ''defeat'' he suffered on screen was oden, and even that was dubious at best. His ''feats'' incllude falling down 10km and only suffering a minor headache, one shotting a FM character when no other top tier has been shown doing so, they couldnt even put down regular YC. Him tanking said FM attacks and getting no damage. Other top tiers hyping him up, orochi shooting cp0 to their faces and telling them that if anyone came they couldnt do shit because he has kaido backing him up, which made the CP0 shudder. Same CP0 that had no problems going after blackbeard and dragon.
> The ace novel stating that he was the stronger fighter between him and WB at the time. Him having the highest bounty, him being highlighted for having grew to yonko level by strength alone. No relying on crew or bs like that. Just him.
> 
> Oda bringing him up in relation to strength in a question that had nothing to do with him but had akainu in it.
> ...


1- And this is exactly why your a Stan, because your trying to pass off those accomplishments like they support the idea that Kaidou is the World’s Strongest or unbeatable 1v1. When you know full that they don’t. 

2- Ace Novel (not written by oda) is not an accomplishment, it’s more ‘they’ say hype.

3- And the rest is downplaying his defeats as I said you would. 

If you would admit Oda has done a poor job actually backing up Kaidou hype, with real feats, then I wouldn’t call you a Stan, even though you believe Kaidou’s hype


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 1- And this is exactly why your a Stan, because your trying to pass off those accomplishments like they support the idea that Kaidou is the World’s Strongest or unbeatable 1v1. When you know full that they don’t.
> 
> 2- Ace Novel (not written by oda) is not an accomplishment, it’s more ‘they’ say hype.
> 
> ...



1- They are still there for a reason, thats more stuff than any top tier has ever gotten.

2- Ace novel(canon and approved and supervised and consulted and oda tellling him what to write), how many they say does it take before we start looking into it huh? And surely pirates in the new world would know more about kaido and the power dynamics than us readers who know basically nothing about why it is that kaido is called WSC and elevated like he is?

3- Thats not downplaying, thats saying that we dont know the context. What we do know is that people dont stay the same power level and we also know many people who lost before that got stronger. So its not downplaying, its basically saying until we know the context. Using his defeats to downplay him like you are doing is kinda mean spirited.


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## Strobacaxi (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Oh wow... So... do you think when Doflamingo was Gamma Knifed, it wasn't a life-threatening injury, him getting stabbed into his organs or... And don't use the "stillness" of panels to deny such a thing either. He literally fell to the ground and was writhing. If you can't tell that, you're just making your own conclusions.


I said Red Hawk, not Gamma knife.

He wasn't writhing. You're the one making your own conclusions. See the image you posted after Luffy got hit by Katakuri? That's writhing on the ground in pain. The stillness of panel doesn't take it away.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> I said Red Hawk, not Gamma knife.
> 
> He wasn't writhing. You're the one making your own conclusions. See the image you posted after Luffy got hit by Katakuri? That's writhing on the ground in pain. The stillness of panel doesn't take it away.


Except he was laying on the ground for at least a few seconds (just laying) does that mean he was unconscious on the ground before getting back up, that would mean he knocked him out with a slash because movement usually = consciousness in both fiction and non-fiction especially after getting struck by a particularly hard ass blow. So either he fell unconscious, or he was writhing on the ground.


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> 1- They are still there for a reason, thats more stuff than any top tier has ever gotten.
> 
> 2- Ace novel(canon and approved and supervised and consulted and oda tellling him what to write), how many they say does it take before we start looking into it huh? And surely pirates in the new world would know more about kaido and the power dynamics than us readers who know basically nothing about why it is that kaido is called WSC and elevated like he is?
> 
> 3- Thats not downplaying, thats saying that we dont know the context. What we do know is that people dont stay the same power level and we also know many people who lost before that got stronger. So its not downplaying, its basically saying until we know the context. Using his defeats to downplay him like you are doing is kinda mean spirited.


1- Okay, and it still doesn’t come close to backing up his hype. Like you can’t admit someone whose suppose to be unbeatable 1v1 not having a confirmed win against any Top Tier 1v1 is a bad writing, if his hype is true. 

2- New World Pirates during the time period of the Ace Novel know how strong Akainu is during P2? They know how strong Gura/Yami Teach is. They know how strong IM is? And so on. I don’t trust them to know much. 

And yeah the fact that we know nothing about why Kaidou is WSC and 1v1 King, still is the problem; he lacks accomplishments to back up his hype, you refuse to admit this though, except when it’s convenient to your argument like now

3- Yes we don’t know the context; but he still has tons of losses; and no confirmed wins on any Top Tiers; that’s the problem Bruv


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## Strobacaxi (May 14, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Except he was laying on the ground for at least a few seconds (just laying) does that mean he was unconscious on the ground before getting back up, that would mean he knocked him out with a slash because movement usually = consciousness in both fiction and non-fiction especially after getting struck by a particularly hard ass blow. So either he fell unconscious, or he was writhing on the ground.



No, he fell from the sky, turned to human and got back up. In the time it took Oden to cover, what, 30 meters? If it took 2 seconds it was a lot.


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## Gomu (May 14, 2020)

Strobacaxi said:


> No, he fell from the sky, turned to human and got back up. In the time it took Oden to cover, what, 30 meters? If it took 2 seconds it was a lot.


He was already on the ground, and once on the ground Oden came charging at him. The conversation between him and the Witch took even more time. A person in pain squirms usually, writhing is squirming. If you've ever been cut and haven't had some sort of mental training and resiliency training, you squirm, Kaido fell against the ground, he was bleeding out and he was going to be cut again. He was cut at a vital spot, look at a picture of Kaido without his shirt, the scar shows that it was on the right side of his body right at his ribs which house his kidneys, that's a vital organ.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 1- Okay, and it still doesn’t come close to backing up his hype. Like you can’t admit someone whose suppose to be unbeatable 1v1 not having a confirmed win against any Top Tier 1v1 is a bad writing, if his hype is true.
> 
> 2- New World Pirates during the time period of the Ace Novel know how strong Akainu is during P2? They know how strong Gura/Yami Teach is. They know how strong IM is? And so on. I don’t trust them to know much.
> 
> ...


You keep bringing up IM, whats telling us this dude isnt just a political figure?  Stop bringing up featless characters, i agree with the rest. His rep is shaky at best. And they knew whitebeard, you know, the strongest man in the world.


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> You keep bringing up IM, whats telling us this dude isnt just a political figure?  Stop bringing up featless characters, i agree with the rest. His rep is shaky at best. And they knew whitebeard, you know, the strongest man in the world.


I’m just bringing him up as an example of people they didn’t know about. 

And like I said I have no problem with you believing Kaidou is stronger then Old/Sick WB. My main issue is just the fact that Kaidou hype is totally not supported by accomplishments. So ether Kaidou is a paper tiger / oda is just hyping him up because he can, or Oda has so far written Kaidou very poorly to substantiate his hype.


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## Fujitora (May 14, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I’m just bringing him up as an example of people they didn’t know about.
> 
> And like I said I have no problem with you believing Kaidou is stronger then Old/Sick WB. My main issue is just the fact that Kaidou hype is totally not supported by accomplishments. So ether Kaidou is a paper tiger / oda is just hyping him up because he can, or Oda has so far written Kaidou very poorly to substantiate his hype.


I feel like his backstory will shed some light on this.


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## Dunno (May 14, 2020)

Gianfi said:


> and now it is Kaido. Kaido>Admirals. Also as per canon BM is a rival to Kaido, so Kaido>=BM>Admirals. So that's settled in stone for now


Now you're going outside of canon. Kaido is canonically known as the strongest creature. He's not canonically the strongest creature. The reason we can say that Whitebeard was canonically the strongest is because Oda told us that he was. He hasn't done that with Kaido.


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## Turrin (May 14, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> I feel like his backstory will shed some light on this.


Hopefully, but right now it’s an major issue


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## Corax (May 15, 2020)

Turrin said:


> How many times are you going to stan yourself out for a villain that is going to be obviously eclipsed by Akainu, Teach, and IM.


This is really interesting. Like OP is their first manga or something. Next villains will be>>>Kaido it is obvious for 99,9% of readers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Duhul10 (May 15, 2020)

Corax said:


> This is really interesting. Like OP is their first manga or something. Next villains will be>>>Kaido it is obvious for 99,9% of readers.


Except when it is not true 
Being limited to that logic must be sad...


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## Quipchaque (May 15, 2020)

Big Mom - 98
Current Teach - 104
Current Luffy - 97
Charlotte Katakuri - 95
Jack the Drought - 93
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 94
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 93
Sakazuki - 99
Kuzan - 98
Issho - 95
Borsalino - 97
Queen the Plague - 95
King the Wildfire - 96
Jozu - 96
Marco - 97
Vista - 95

Something like that.


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## Beast (May 16, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Big Mom - 98
> Current Teach - 104
> Current Luffy - 97
> Charlotte Katakuri - 95
> ...


Garp shot Marco out the sky like he was a candle, change it now.


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## Turrin (May 16, 2020)

Corax said:


> This is really interesting. Like OP is their first manga or something. Next villains will be>>>Kaido it is obvious for 99,9% of readers.


Nah dude don’t you know villains get weaker as the story progresses. Luffy will face his greatest challenge here at Wano, and then everything else will be a cake walk


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## Quipchaque (May 16, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Garp shot Marco out the sky like he was a candle, change it now.



That doesn't make him stronger for me. I believe he is more or less on yonko level but he won't be able to outlast Marco cause of his decreased strength and likely lower stamina. 

And if shooting someone out of the sky is all we are going by then Marco>Kizaru.


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## Beast (May 16, 2020)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> That doesn't make him stronger for me. I believe he is more or less on yonko level but he won't be able to outlast Marco cause of his decreased strength and likely lower stamina.
> 
> And if shooting someone out of the sky is all we are going by then Marco>Kizaru.


Your comprehensive skills must be at a zero if you think the two are even remotely comparable.


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## Quipchaque (May 16, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Your comprehensive skills must be at a zero if you think the two are even remotely comparable.



That is fine with me if you think so.


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## Nox (May 17, 2020)

Prime Garp aka Koby [Unrestricted] - 100+ 
Kaido - 100
Sakazuki - 98
Teach - 97
Kuzan - 97
Linlin - 95
Borsalino - 95
Issho - 95
Garp - 91
Sengoku - 91
Luffy - 85+
Marco - 85
King - 84
Katakuri - 83
Jozu - 78
Queen - 77
Vista - 75
Jack - 70
1-3 = Extreme Diff
4-7 = High Diff
8-10 = Mid Diff
10+ = Low Diff


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## Patrick (May 17, 2020)

So because Naruto and Dragonball introduced way stronger villains every arc, Oda suddenly has to start doing the same thing after 1k chapters of doing exactly not that?

Just to give some context. We were introduced to the Yonkou/Admirals/Shichibukai system all the way back in East Blue. Marineford was Hiruzen vs Orochimaru without the manga breaking intro of Itachi and Akatsuki. Oda has never felt the need to constantly replace the strongest people in the world with asspulls because he has actually managed to create a sonewhat consistent power scaling with Luffy still climbing that same ladder we were introduced to in the 20th century.

Reactions: Like 5


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (May 17, 2020)

Big Mom -99
Current Teach -?
Current Luffy -85
Charlotte Katakuri -77
Jack the Drought -70
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 98
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 95
Sakazuki -99
Kuzan -97
Issho - 93
Borsalino -96
Queen the Plague - 75
King the Wildfire - 80
Jozu - 78
Marco - 82
Vista- 73
Roger-105


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## Shiroryu (May 17, 2020)

Ren. said:


> You don't even try to spell that Admirals are some uber characters!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol these people’s powerscaling is ridiculous. It’s gonna be fun to watch them melt down when BB trashes Aokiji mid diff after he gets exposed as a traitor


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## Nox (May 19, 2020)

WSM | WSC = 100
WSS | Emperor | Admiral = 95 - 99
Yonko Commander = 70 - 85
Warlord = 40 - 70
Vice Admiral - 30
Rear Admiral - 20

IDK how many times it must be reminded the gap between Marines as opposed to Emperors. Cracker could fight all Marine HQ Vice Admirals we saw in MF at once and by himself. Also LOL at using Teach as an example like he wouldn't floss apart Emperors with the same ease. Dude is superior to all these 2and rate bums. Shanks had a lot to say in Marineford but where is he now?


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## Turrin (May 19, 2020)

Patrick said:


> So because Naruto and Dragonball introduced way stronger villains every arc, Oda suddenly has to start doing the same thing after 1k chapters of doing exactly not that?
> 
> Just to give some context. We were introduced to the Yonkou/Admirals/Shichibukai system all the way back in East Blue. Marineford was Hiruzen vs Orochimaru without the manga breaking intro of Itachi and Akatsuki. Oda has never felt the need to constantly replace the strongest people in the world with asspulls because he has actually managed to create a sonewhat consistent power scaling with Luffy still climbing that same ladder we were introduced to in the 20th century.


Every single Arc of One Piece has had a villain who is a bigger threat to Luffy then the previous one. So yes we should expect Oda to continue this trend.

And yes Oda introduces Yonko/Admirals early on, but he also introduced the concept of the PK, which is a step above this level; and we know Luffy is going to surpass Roger at some point, meaning there will be a step above PK as well. All of this was baked into the story from the beginning; just like with Naruto we knew there would be a level beyond the Hokage, because Naruto was going to surpass them as his goal.

Kaidou isn’t probably one of the Strongest among the Yonko/Admirals, but Akainu; Teach; and IMU (or whoever IM champion is) being stronger then him goes without saying. As does all the Prime Legends from Rogers era like Prime WB, Xebec, Roger, Garp, and maybe even Prime Sengoku and BM. Shanks and Dragon are also likely to have powers that exceed Kaidou’s as they will directly be in conflict with these Villains like IM and Teach.

Kaidou is just the example of Luffy first fight against a Non Gimped Yonko/Admiral level.


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## Duhul10 (May 19, 2020)

Poor Kizaru, he must be weaker than Jones...but..there is nothing to do. It is ''the law of OP''


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## Patrick (May 19, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Every single Arc of One Piece has had a villain who is a bigger threat to Luffy then the previous one. So yes we should expect Oda to continue this trend.
> 
> And yes Oda introduces Yonko/Admirals early on, but he also introduced the concept of the PK, which is a step above this level; and we know Luffy is going to surpass Roger at some point, meaning there will be a step above PK as well. All of this was baked into the story from the beginning; just like with Naruto we knew there would be a level beyond the Hokage, because Naruto was going to surpass them as his goal.
> 
> ...



In chapter 1 we get introduced to the Pirate King, the strongest pirate ever. Whitebeard even in his old age was the strongest man in the world so at the time of Marineford we still hadn't seen anyone at the level of Roger. I see Kaido as roughly on the same level as Old WB so now we're getting to a point where we'll start breaking the level established at MF and start moving to the level introduced in chapter 1, which is Prime Roger. Luffy and Teach will surpass that Old WB/Kaido level at some point but not yet, more mysterious big players like Imu, Shanks and Dragon could also turn out stronger than expected. The thing is that the bar set in chapter 1 has still not been broken almost 1000 chapters in and since nobody that we know of is even at that level Luffy doesn't even have to go far beyond that to reach his goal. 

Now compare that to Naruto. Hiruzen was supposed to be the strongest Hokage ever, also making him the strongest ever in general. Hiruzen vs Orochimaru mirrors Whitebeard vs Akainu well in that we get a weakened, old strongest in the world vs the big bad who is using a plan to take out the biggest threat to them. In One Piece that happened how it was supposed to happen. Whitebeard died and now a bunch of people like Kaido, Big Mom and Akainu are now vying for the top spot without noticeably having to surpass Old WB nevertheless even approach the level of Prime Roger/Prime WB. In Naruto we immediately after were introduced to Itachi, along the leader of Akatsuki who was said to be even stronger by Itachi. Introducing these villains who were seemingly stronger than even Prime Hiruzen made the entire Hiruzen vs Orochimaru fight obsolete. And that was just the start of it, no need to go further in detail about the Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama/Minato strength retcons, Obito, Kaguya, the Jyuubi etc etc.

Saying every single arc Luffy faces a bigger threat isn't true either. Bellamy wasn't stronger than Crocodile and neither was Enel for that matter. Mr. 5 also wasn't stronger than Arlong. If you're only talking about big arcs then yeah we'd get Teach or Akainu next who would then probably be stronger than Kaido but not necessarily as strong as Prime Roger yet.


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## Turrin (May 19, 2020)

Patrick said:


> In chapter 1 we get introduced to the Pirate King, the strongest pirate ever. Whitebeard even in his old age was the strongest man in the world so at the time of Marineford we still hadn't seen anyone at the level of Roger. I see Kaido as roughly on the same level as Old WB so now we're getting to a point where we'll start breaking the level established at MF and start moving to the level introduced in chapter 1, which is Prime Roger. Luffy and Teach will surpass that Old WB/Kaido level at some point but not yet, more mysterious big players like Imu, Shanks and Dragon could also turn out stronger than expected. The thing is that the bar set in chapter 1 has still not been broken almost 1000 chapters in and since nobody that we know of is even at that level Luffy doesn't even have to go far beyond that to reach his goal.
> 
> Now compare that to Naruto. Hiruzen was supposed to be the strongest Hokage ever, also making him the strongest ever in general. Hiruzen vs Orochimaru mirrors Whitebeard vs Akainu well in that we get a weakened, old strongest in the world vs the big bad who is using a plan to take out the biggest threat to them. In One Piece that happened how it was supposed to happen. Whitebeard died and now a bunch of people like Kaido, Big Mom and Akainu are now vying for the top spot without noticeably having to surpass Old WB nevertheless even approach the level of Prime Roger/Prime WB. In Naruto we immediately after were introduced to Itachi, along the leader of Akatsuki who was said to be even stronger by Itachi. Introducing these villains who were seemingly stronger than even Prime Hiruzen made the entire Hiruzen vs Orochimaru fight obsolete. And that was just the start of it, no need to go further in detail about the Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama/Minato strength retcons, Obito, Kaguya, the Jyuubi etc etc.
> 
> Saying every single arc Luffy faces a bigger threat isn't true either. Bellamy wasn't stronger than Crocodile and neither was Enel for that matter. Mr. 5 also wasn't stronger than Arlong. If you're only talking about big arcs then yeah we'd get Teach or Akainu next who would then probably be stronger than Kaido but not necessarily as strong as Prime Roger yet.


This is bad read of Naruto. 

In Chapter 1 we are introduced to Kyuubi; which was the strongest entity in Naruto. Hiruzen and Minato strongest Technique was the Fuuinjutsu Suicide Tech that was used to just seal Kyuubi. So it was always set up that Kyuubi was the Strongest entity; and Naruto to surpass the Hokage would need to do more then just defeat the Kyuubi; then we go into ancient history and find out there were guys stronger then Kyuubi; that Naruto ends up facing and defeating surpassing the Hokage. All of it adds up.

In One Piece Ch1 we hear about Roger and we know it’s Luffy’s goal to surpass Roger; and become the PK as well. Now as the Manga progressed we start learning more about Ancient History; and the Ancient Weapons. It’s obvious the power of these weapons exceeds Roger and Luffy will need to face power on this scale at some point; and It’s also obvious Teach will end up stronger then Xebec; Rogers main rival. Now whether the power scale so absurdly exceeds Roger the way Juubi and Kaguya exceeded Kyuubi; that’s unknown but there clearly will be a level beyond Roger that Luffy has to face, possibly multiple, if IM turns out to be stronger then Roger/Xebec like Teach will be.

—-
Yes I’m talking about Big Arcs:

And as far as I’m concerned it goes 

IM / Teach / Joy Boy level 
Roger / Prime WB / Xebec level
Akainu / Shanks / Dragon / Prime Garp level
Old/Sick WB / Kaidou / BM / Other Admirals level

With the Akainu tier possible being split into the Roger and Kaidou tier; depend on how many arcs we have left


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## Adhominem (May 25, 2020)

The admiral wank is too much. Serious or not Oda would never portray Yonkou even briefly struggling with guys like Dressrosa Zoro, Luffy, going relatively 1 to 1 with Sabo and the like. 

Meanwhile powerless Big Mom  low/no diffs Queen and Kaido oneshots G4 Luffy. WB is the only guy on his side above YC level and he takes on the entire Navy while dying of pirate aids


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## Gomu (May 26, 2020)

Adhominem said:


> The admiral wank is too much. Serious or not Oda would never portray Yonkou even briefly struggling with guys like Dressrosa Zoro, Luffy, going relatively 1 to 1 with Sabo and the like.
> 
> Meanwhile powerless Big Mom  low/no diffs Queen and Kaido oneshots G4 Luffy. WB is the only guy on his side above YC level and he takes on the entire Navy while dying of pirate aids


Oh I really want to see where an Admiral was struggling against Luffy and Zoro. Being surprised is not the same as "struggling": "Oh, you can shoot a flying slash attack, be careful men" is not struggling.


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## Adhominem (May 26, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Oh I really want to see where an Admiral was struggling against Luffy and Zoro. Being surprised is not the same as "struggling": "Oh, you can shoot a flying slash attack, be careful men" is not struggling.



You're not wrong, struggling is too strong a word for the base Luffy and Zoro skirmishes but he was getting the fade by Sabo


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## Gomu (May 26, 2020)

Adhominem said:


> You're not wrong, struggling is too strong a word for the base Luffy and Zoro skirmishes but he was getting the fade by Sabo


Sabo has all but proven he's on a similar level to characters like Marco though... Luffy can't beat Marco how he is right now.


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## Adhominem (May 26, 2020)

Gomu said:


> Sabo has all but proven he's on a similar level to characters like Marco though... Luffy can't beat Marco how he is right now.



Is Sabo Marco level? I disagree but Sabo is definitely one of those dudes with a big speculative range of strength. But there Yonkou are on a different level. Jack shat out baby triplets when Kaido arrived. Queen was near fodder to amnesiac Big Mom with no homies.


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## Gomu (May 26, 2020)

Adhominem said:


> Is Sabo Marco level? I disagree but Sabo is definitely one of those dudes with a big speculative range of strength. But there Yonkou are on a different level. Jack shat out baby triplets when Kaido arrived. Queen was near fodder to amnesiac Big Mom with no homies.


He was going head to head with an Admiral for a relatively long period of time, even if that was casual, Yonkou Commanders have not performed such a feat, and again, speculation arises on the Revery situation. Did he inflict such wounds on Fujitora, if this is the case, it would mean he was Marco's level and is closer to Marco's then Katakuri's level.


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## ImpalerDragon (Jun 1, 2020)

Big Mom - 99
Current Teach - 97
Current Luffy - 40
Charlotte Katakuri - 30
Jack the Drought - 20
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 20
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 19
Sakazuki - 25
Kuzan - 24
Issho - 20
Borsalino - 22
Queen the Plague - 25
King the Wildfire - 31
Jozu - 27
Marco - 30
Vista - 25


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## VileNotice (Jun 2, 2020)

Brian said:


> Big Mom- 101


How does one go about getting a Big Mom sticker, I'd be using it constantly


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## Crow (Jun 3, 2020)

Shanks - 115


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## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2020)

Big Mom - 90
Current Teach - 95
Current Luffy - 85
Charlotte Katakuri - 80
Jack the Drought - 75
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 100 
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 95
Sakazuki - 101
Kuzan - 100
Issho - 100
Borsalino - 100
Queen the Plague - 78
King the Wildfire - 83
Jozu - 80
Marco - 82-83
Vista - 79

Reactions: Like 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jun 3, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom - 90
> Current Teach - 95
> Current Luffy - 85
> Charlotte Katakuri - 80
> ...


This makes no sense


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## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2020)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> This makes no sense



What exactly?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jun 3, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> What exactly?


The marines having five or more people noticeably stronger than mom

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 3, 2020)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> The marines having five or more people noticeably stronger than mom



Is it so hard to believe that the admirals are above a character that is constantly receiving bad feats and portrayal? She has peak stenght but it doesn't seem to last long with her instable personality, at her peak she can definitely compete with the top tiers though.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Jun 4, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Is it so hard to believe that the admirals are above a character that is constantly receiving bad feats and portrayal? She has peak stenght but it doesn't seem to last long with her instable personality, at her peak she can definitely compete with the top tiers though.


All of her bad showings are plot related but it is true there’s not enough outside of it to label them definitely pis. I think they are but that remains to be seen.


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## Dunno (Jun 4, 2020)

Adhominem said:


> The admiral wank is too much. Serious or not Oda would never portray Yonkou even briefly struggling with guys like Dressrosa Zoro, Luffy, going relatively 1 to 1 with Sabo and the like.
> 
> Meanwhile powerless Big Mom  low/no diffs Queen and Kaido oneshots G4 Luffy. WB is the only guy on his side above YC level and he takes on the entire Navy while dying of pirate aids


You're right. Oda wouldn't show the Yonkou struggle against opponents like Luffy, Zoro and Sabo. He would show them struggle against opponents like Nami, Chopper and Brook.


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## Fujitora (Jun 4, 2020)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Big Mom - 99
> Current Teach - 97
> Current Luffy - 40
> Charlotte Katakuri - 30
> ...


From one extreme to another


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## Fujitora (Jun 4, 2020)

Dunno said:


> You're right. Oda wouldn't show the Yonkou struggle against opponents like Luffy, Zoro and Sabo. He would show them struggle against opponents like Nami, Chopper and Brook.


She didn’t struggle against brook, she wanted to add him to her collection, she was smiling the whole way brook was struggling and even let her homies play with him. She she’s had enough she took him out in one hit.

The situation with the weak trio was clear PIS. What, you wanted the sunny to be destroyed or something?. And finally, the woman was nerfed and was losing her mind for the sake of a cake. Oda clowned her because he had to or the sh would be dead.


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## Fujitora (Jun 4, 2020)

Patrick said:


> So because Naruto and Dragonball introduced way stronger villains every arc, Oda suddenly has to start doing the same thing after 1k chapters of doing exactly not that?
> 
> Just to give some context. We were introduced to the Yonkou/Admirals/Shichibukai system all the way back in East Blue. Marineford was Hiruzen vs Orochimaru without the manga breaking intro of Itachi and Akatsuki. Oda has never felt the need to constantly replace the strongest people in the world with asspulls because he has actually managed to create a sonewhat consistent power scaling with Luffy still climbing that same ladder we were introduced to in the 20th century.


Some people here acting as if enel wouldn’t have wiped the floor with every single villain that came after him pre skip or that Magellan vs doffy would be a toss up or that croc would beat Lucci and Moriah imo. One piece never followed linear powerscalling yet now they want it the case just because their favourite shitty manga used that same logic


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 4, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Some people here acting as if enel wouldn’t have wiped the floor with every single villain that came after him pre skip or that Magellan vs doffy would be a toss up or that croc would beat Lucci and Moriah imo. One piece never followed linear powerscalling yet now they want it the case just because their favourite shitty manga used that same logic


Also when it should be blatantly obvious at this point that isn't losing to Luffy in a 1v1


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## Dunno (Jun 4, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> She didn’t struggle against brook, she wanted to add him to her collection, she was smiling the whole way brook was struggling and even let her homies play with him. She she’s had enough she took him out in one hit.
> 
> The situation with the weak trio was clear PIS. What, you wanted the sunny to be destroyed or something?. And finally, the woman was nerfed and was losing her mind for the sake of a cake. Oda clowned her because he had to or the sh would be dead.


People call 95% of Big Mom's feats PIS. At some point you have to admit that she's simply stupid.


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## Fujitora (Jun 4, 2020)

Dunno said:


> People call 95% of Big Mom's feats PIS. At some point you have to admit that she's simply stupid.


Her ragdolling queen, her sending casual Elbaf spear slashes that went through an entire island and then some in the sea, those are feats. Oda clowning her so that the shs don’t get fucked is on oda not BM.

 He could’ve found a way to not have them interact and save the mugis but for some reason he decided that the best course of action was to clown her. Every single top tier gets somewhere hit by the stupid bad when fecing luffy and co. 

Heck fucking kizarus kicks didn’t do shit to pre skip base luffy, he chose to hit the key instead of luffy, let’s not even talk about mihawk, sengoku only made g3 bleed a bit. The difference is tho, that besides luffys they had fights against other top tiers and or high tiers oda had no problem having lose. Thus their showings are not stupid overall. The only top tier big mom fought was kaido and they split the heavens the same way shanks/wb did and even split the sea. The shock of their clash was reverberating through the islnd. Then their fighting could also be felt through the island too.

 And then she fought queen which she ragdolled while hakiless and amnesiac. So let’s wait and see her actually fight against other top tiers or high tiers before using these occurrences clearly tied to the straw hats survival as being not PIS.


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## Fel1x (Jun 4, 2020)

TheWiggian said:


> Big Mom - 90
> Current Teach - 95
> Current Luffy - 85
> Charlotte Katakuri - 80
> ...


that is some next level wank with all admirals being equal to Kaido and Akainu above
marines are so lucky that all their admirals are WSCs

MF Sengoku> BM


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## CaptainCommander (Jun 4, 2020)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Big Mom - 99
> Current Teach - 97
> Current Luffy - 40
> Charlotte Katakuri - 30
> ...



Honestly this is the only list that even remotely make sense. No way most of these guys are above even 50 looking at the gap between officers and top tiers.


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## The crazy hacker (Jun 5, 2020)

1-Extreme diff.   2-5 high diff.      6-10 Mid Diff.     11-15 Low diff
 16+ Fodderization

Big Mom -   99 
Current Teach - 97 
Current Luffy -   90 
Charlotte Katakuri -  86 
Jack the Drought -   77 
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 100 
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 97 
Sakazuki - 99
Kuzan - 98 
Issho - 95 
Borsalino - 96 
Queen the Plague -  82
King the Wildfire - 87 
Jozu - 84 
Marco - 90 
Vista - 79


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## Fujitora (Jun 5, 2020)

CaptainCommander said:


> Honestly this is the only list that even remotely make sense. No way most of these guys are above even 50 looking at the gap between officers and top tiers.


He put the admirals in the 20s. Please guys, stay unbiased. To me, admirals are in the same ballpark as yonko so they should all be in the 90s


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## FakeTaxi1738 (Jun 5, 2020)

Big Mom - 95
Current Teach - 97
Current Luffy - 89
Charlotte Katakuri -88
Jack the Drought -83
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp -90
Pre timeskip Sengoku -90
Sakazuki -102
Kuzan -98
Issho -96
Borsalino -96
Queen the Plague -86
King the Wildfire -88
Jozu - 87
Marco- 90


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> Her ragdolling queen, her sending casual Elbaf spear slashes that went through an entire island and then some in the sea, those are feats. Oda clowning her so that the shs don’t get fucked is on oda not BM.
> 
> He could’ve found a way to not have them interact and save the mugis but for some reason he decided that the best course of action was to clown her. Every single top tier gets somewhere hit by the stupid bad when fecing luffy and co.
> 
> ...


So Big Mom knocking out Queen for the same duration Apoo knocked out Luffy is a legit feat, but King or Queen knocking her out isnt? The difference between all the other examples you give is that it only happened to those people once, and it wasn't nearly as bad. What everyone at MF did (except Mihawk and Garp, since they were Luffy's allies) was akin to when Big Mom missed the SHs with her slash. Noone else has ever been so humiliated constantly. Big Mom's feats are the worst out of any top tier, unless you ignore the majority of them.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 5, 2020)

Dunno said:


> *So Big Mom knocking out Queen for the same duration Apoo knocked out Luffy is a legit feat, but King or Queen knocking her out isnt?* The difference between all the other examples you give is that it only happened to those people once, and it wasn't nearly as bad. What everyone at MF did (except Mihawk and Garp, since they were Luffy's allies) was akin to when Big Mom missed the SHs with her slash. Noone else has ever been so humiliated constantly. Big Mom's feats are the worst out of any top tier, unless you ignore the majority of them.


the analogy is disastrous. Big mom fodderized Queen. Queen got a cheap shot ( which was prepared beforehand and from certain height ) and only managed to wake her from the amnesia. Afterwards, she fell asleep because she was already very sleepy just like she mentioned.
So basically you are comparing a direct confrontation to two situations which had nothing to do with the definition of a fight.
Big mom went toe to toe with Kaido for some hours and the result of their weapons clashing was even more impressive than Shanks vs WB. She is more powerful than her entire family at a time and is considered one of the few who can take BB out. I mean I get it, you do not like her, but from that to saying she is the worst top tier featwise  ( even though other top tiers have had lower end feats way worse than her such as Fujitora, Garp, Sengoku, even WB ). For them, those are outliers, for BM, they define her...


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## Dunno (Jun 5, 2020)

Duhul10 said:


> the analogy is disastrous. Big mom fodderized Queen. Queen got a cheap shot ( which was prepared beforehand and from certain height ) and only managed to wake her from the amnesia. Afterwards, she fell asleep because she was already very sleepy just like she mentioned.
> So basically you are comparing a direct confrontation to two situations which had nothing to do with the definition of a fight.
> Big mom went toe to toe with Kaido for some hours and the result of their weapons clashing was even more impressive than Shanks vs WB. She is more powerful than her entire family at a time and is considered one of the few who can take BB out. I mean I get it, you do not like her, but from that to saying she is the worst top tier featwise  ( even though other top tiers have had lower end feats way worse than her such as Fujitora, Garp, Sengoku, even WB ). For them, those are outliers, for BM, they define her...


Big Mom fodderized Queen exactly like Apoo fodderized Luffy. She knocked him out for less than a minute, after which Queen got up and was totally fine. Queen then got a cheap shot and managed to hit her hard enough wake her from her amnesia, making her fall asleep. Luffy on the other hand didn't manage to do anything at all to Apoo. 

Saying that any other top tier has a feat lower than her lowest end feats is simply not true, unless you count Shanks vs Lor D. Coast. Fujitora got pushed back by Gear 3 Luffy, which is not the most impressive feat, but it's not as bad as being blitzed by Brook. Sengoku only managed to do a little bit of damage when he hit Luffy at MF, but Big Mom didn't manage to do any damage when she hit Chopper. Garp wanted Luffy to get past him, which invalidates that feat entirely. If you go that route, you might as well say that Shanks failing to kill child Luffy in chapter 1 was the worst feat in the manga. And regarding WB, I'm not even sure what feat you are talking about. None of these guys got knocked out by a Yonkou commander though, and you know just as well as I do that there's no way Oda would ever have that happen to them.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 5, 2020)

Dunno said:


> Big Mom fodderized Queen exactly like Apoo fodderized Luffy. She knocked him out for less than a minute, after which Queen got up and was totally fine. Queen then got a cheap shot and managed to hit her hard enough wake her from her amnesia, making her fall asleep. Luffy on the other hand didn't manage to do anything at all to Apoo.
> 
> Saying that any other top tier has a feat lower than her lowest end feats is simply not true, unless you count Shanks vs Lor D. Coast. Fujitora got pushed back by Gear 3 Luffy, which is not the most impressive feat, but it's not as bad as being blitzed by Brook. Sengoku only managed to do a little bit of damage when he hit Luffy at MF, but Big Mom didn't manage to do any damage when she hit Chopper. Garp wanted Luffy to get past him, which invalidates that feat entirely. If you go that route, you might as well say that Shanks failing to kill child Luffy in chapter 1 was the worst feat in the manga. And regarding WB, I'm not even sure what feat you are talking about. None of these guys got knocked out by a Yonkou commander though, and you know just as well as I do that there's no way Oda would ever have that happen to them.


Agreed with the first paragraph, it' basically what I said.
Except Big mom did not get knocked out because of the damage, but because she was already in the process of falling asleep as she mentioned 2 chapters or so before.
Against Chopper Mom was weakened, Sengoku wasn't against part 1 luffy + Mom used a palm to grab, not a punch.
She wasn't blitzed by brook, Zeus was and again Mom was weakened. You've got to accept it, Mom at her best ( in her usual form ) is a not only a top tier, but a solid one.
Squardo got WB bloody, Fujitora was huffing like damn against bandaged dressrossa Luffy without G4, Sengoku failed to do sh*t against part 1 Luffy,  Shanks lost his arm to an East Blue monster and got scarred by a pre yami Teach. There are lots and lots of low end feats for top tiers in this manga, yet you only seem to accept those of weakened Big Mom and not only that but you also take them for granted for Big Mom at her best. I mean ok, you do not like the character and yes she is used for comic relief at times, but that does not deny her portrayal in any way.


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## CaptainCommander (Jun 5, 2020)

OniKaido said:


> He put the admirals in the 20s. Please guys, stay unbiased. To me, admirals are in the same ballpark as yonko so they should all be in the 90s



I said officers didn't I? Check your bias about admirals.

Even then, it is still better than anyone else who puts the other officers in the 80s.


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## Fujitora (Jun 5, 2020)

CaptainCommander said:


> I said officers didn't I? Check your bias about admirals.
> 
> Even then, it is still better than anyone else who puts the other officers in the 80s.


Yeah i know you said officers but you said that his post is the only that makes sense, but in that same post he has admirals extremely low.



Duhul10 said:


> Agreed with the first paragraph, it' basically what I said.
> Except Big mom did not get knocked out because of the damage, but because she was already in the process of falling asleep as she mentioned 2 chapters or so before.
> Against Chopper Mom was weakened, Sengoku wasn't against part 1 luffy + Mom used a palm to grab, not a punch.
> She wasn't blitzed by brook, Zeus was and again Mom was weakened. You've got to accept it, Mom at her best ( in her usual form ) is a not only a top tier, but a solid one.
> Squardo got WB bloody, Fujitora was huffing like damn against bandaged dressrossa Luffy without G4, Sengoku failed to do sh*t against part 1 Luffy,  Shanks lost his arm to an East Blue monster and got scarred by a pre yami Teach. There are lots and lots of low end feats for top tiers in this manga, yet you only seem to accept those of weakened Big Mom and not only that but you also take them for granted for Big Mom at her best. I mean ok, you do not like the character and yes she is used for comic relief at times, but that does not deny her portrayal in any way.


The chopper one is so easy to explain, she was going for a cake she believe was on the ship, she pushed her palm down to check on it. Why would she apply any force and risking destroying the ship/cake, chopper used gard point to block a palm push from a big mom trying to touch/find the cake, thats it.



Dunno said:


> Big Mom fodderized Queen exactly like Apoo fodderized Luffy. She knocked him out for less than a minute, after which Queen got up and was totally fine. Queen then got a cheap shot and managed to hit her hard enough wake her from her amnesia, making her fall asleep. Luffy on the other hand didn't manage to do anything at all to Apoo.
> 
> Saying that any other top tier has a feat lower than her lowest end feats is simply not true, unless you count Shanks vs Lor D. Coast. Fujitora got pushed back by Gear 3 Luffy, which is not the most impressive feat, but it's not as bad as being blitzed by Brook. Sengoku only managed to do a little bit of damage when he hit Luffy at MF, but Big Mom didn't manage to do any damage when she hit Chopper. Garp wanted Luffy to get past him, which invalidates that feat entirely. If you go that route, you might as well say that Shanks failing to kill child Luffy in chapter 1 was the worst feat in the manga. And regarding WB, I'm not even sure what feat you are talking about. None of these guys got knocked out by a Yonkou commander though, and you know just as well as I do that there's no way Oda would ever have that happen to them.


Kizaru was kicking luffy and didnt do any semblance of damage to him, mihawk wasnt able to deal any damage onto luffy, heck the fact that sengoku went budda form against pre skip hakiless g3 luffy and only made him bleed from the mouth is a garbage feat for a top tier but hey man, gotta rag on bm.


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## CaptainCommander (Jun 5, 2020)

@OniKaido 

Lets assume they are not exactly where they should for the sake of discussion. So he shafted the admirals. three characters on the list. He still  did better than any one else on 8 others.


Current Luffy -
Charlotte Katakuri -
Jack the Drought -
Queen the Plague -
King the Wildfire -
Jozu - 
Marco - 
Vista -

So he's still ahead of the game.


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## ImpalerDragon (Jun 6, 2020)

CaptainCommander said:


> Honestly this is the only list that even remotely make sense. No way most of these guys are above even 50 looking at the gap between officers and top tiers.



It is accurat. My one piece knowledge is very good. I constantly reread the story all the time.


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## Fujitora (Jun 6, 2020)

ImpalerDragon said:


> It is accurat. My one piece knowledge is very good. I constantly reread the story all the time.


Impaler for president!!!


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## Captain Altintop (Jun 11, 2020)

Big Mom - 99
Current Teach - 97
Current Luffy - 90
Charlotte Katakuri -88
Jack the Drought -84
Pre Timeskip Monkey D. Garp - 100
Pre timeskip Sengoku - 97
Sakazuki -100
Kuzan -99
Issho -97
Borsalino -99
Queen the Plague -86
King the Wildfire - 89
Jozu - 87
Marco- 90


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