# Juubi's Eye = Rinnegan



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Confirmed. 

It's probably a higher form of the Rinnegan, or its true form? Kinda makes sense if you think about it.

When Uchiha and Senju is split, the ocular progression: 

[1] _Sharingan, Mangekyou, Eternal Mangekyou._​
So maybe when both powers are one, it goes:

[2] _Rinnegan, 9 Tomoe Rinnegan_​


Regardless, can't wait to see what abilities it possess.


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## ch1p (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't feel any happiness in this "victory".


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

Yea I'd wait because there's a clear difference between the two. Sasuke and Kaguya's eyes have tomoes while the rinnegan doesn't.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Yea I'd wait because there's a clear difference between the two. Sasuke and Kaguya's eyes have tomoes while the rinnegan doesn't.



I understand that, but he called it a Rinnegan. It's probably a higher form.


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## Tengu (Apr 16, 2014)

Juubi's Eye = Rinnegan=Itachi's left eye


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Unless MP goofed on their trans. It makes zero sense for Hagoromo's "Rinnegan" to be purple and lack tomoe, and Sasuke's to resemble the Shinju's/ Kaguya's eye [Which Hagoromo called the Sharingan].


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## Dolohov27 (Apr 16, 2014)

Fuck........


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Unless MP goofed on their trans. It makes zero sense for Hagoromo's "Rinnegan" to be purple and lack tomoe, and Sasuke's to resemble the Shinju's/ Kaguya's eye [Which Hagoromo called the Sharingan].



That's why I said it'd be better to wait.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

YES!!!!!!!!!
WE won!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Unless MP goofed on their trans. It makes zero sense for Hagoromo's "Rinnegan" to be purple and lack tomoe, and Sasuke's to resemble the Shinju's/ Kaguya's eye [Which Hagoromo called the Sharingan].



Hagoromo didn't call it the Sharingan. He said it possess the Sharingan's power. 

Lacking tomoe could be its initial stage, comparable to the regular Sharingan which lacks the concentric circles. 

Why the color is off? 

I have no argument for that, but it could be the author's attempt to throw the reader off course.

Regardless, it's actually called a Rinnegan, unlike a few chapters ago, when it still wasn't given a name.


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## Csdabest (Apr 16, 2014)

As long as he still uses Mangekyo powers and its red. I dont give a darn. muahahahaha


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## Harbour (Apr 16, 2014)

Where is another True Rinnegan Eye???
The second half of Juubi sleeps somewhere.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

It was done appropriately. It seems as though he skipped the Rinnegan Madara has ( probably a watered down and limited one) and achieved it in its entirety. Still believe it is a predominately Yin manifestation.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Its a Rinnegan with tomeos.a higher form of rinnegan. 
just as i thought!!


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## shyakugaun (Apr 16, 2014)

Madara could think its a regular rinnegan, but i have a feeling Sasuke will be using some new techniques he's never seen before


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

im so fucking happy

rinnegan or sharingan, depending on what Rikudou or Madara said, i just know that Sasuke got the fucking Juubi eye


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> That's why I said it'd be better to wait.



Or you could summon Matrix instead. :ignoramus


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## SaiST (Apr 16, 2014)

​


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Or you could summon Matrix instead. :ignoramus



Touche. :ignoramus


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## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

it has tomoes so im still calling it the Sharinegan

reagrdless....


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## Arles Celes (Apr 16, 2014)

But did he obtain said dojutsu thanks to Hashi's chakra/DNA or due to receiving an extreme Yin upgrade from RS?


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> But did he obtain said dojutsu thanks to Hashi's chakra/DNA or due to receiving an extreme Yin upgrade from RS?



Both of them .Rinnegan+Yin chakra.
It seems to be a 6 tomeos one.


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## icemaster143 (Apr 16, 2014)

Why do people think its a higher form of Rinnegan?

If anything its an imperfect from of rinnegan. A form only created from half the power.

Madara didn't see it as beyond his power on its own.


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## Frosch (Apr 16, 2014)

tomoed rinnegan > rinnegan > sharingan


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

On the off chance Madara might be blind, I think there's a difference between implying the eye is _referred_ to as the "Rinnegan" and implying Sasuke obtained the _power_ of the Rinnegan, like what Hagoromo did with Kaguya.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> But did he obtain said dojutsu thanks to Hashi's chakra/DNA or due to receiving an extreme Yin upgrade from RS?



I can only based this off the little I have seen from Naruto.

Hagoromo definitely centered their powers into their dominate arms. For Naruto, he definitely increased his Yang powers, as he used his right hand to save Gai's life. Furthermore, Naruto's new Rasengan uses Son Goku's power, he also used his right arm for that technique.

Basically, Rikudou shared some of his own Yang powers with Naruto, and took the powers Naruto received on his own (Sage Mode), and from others (Bijuu powers), and combine them together (I believe he increased Naruto's Sage Mode powers too).

I'm guessing he did the same thing for Sasuke. Increased his Yin power, augmented the Yang power from the cells of Hashirama, and somehow gave him an even stronger Rinnegan than Madara - possibly by passing along a bit of his own Yang energy?


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

Why in only one eye? What am I missing?


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## Punished Pathos (Apr 16, 2014)

Finally....


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Why in only one eye? What am I missing?



Left hand and eye are the dominant ones.


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## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

icemaster143 said:


> Why do people think its a higher form of Rinnegan?



oh i dunno.... maybe because the Juubi and Kaguya had the same frikin eye? maybe because its the same eye thats capable of Infinite Tsukiyomi? maybe because the Sage of fcking Six Paths gave it to him?

some people


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

jacamo said:


> oh i dunno.... maybe because the Juubi and Kaguya had the same frikin eye? maybe because its the same eye thats capable of Infinite Tsukiyomi? maybe because the Sage of fcking Six Paths gave it to him?
> 
> some people


 *1]* The Sage was never shown with that third eye, so _he _couldn't have given it to him.
*2]* The Sage likened Kaguya's eye to the Sharingan, because of it's power of hypnosis [MT]


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

icemaster143 said:


> Why do people think its a higher form of Rinnegan?
> 
> If anything its an imperfect from of rinnegan. A form only created from half the power.



Imperfect with half the power?

One can't awaken the Rinnegan without both Yin and Yang. Sasuke was revived with Hashirama's cells, and was given his chakra directly. 



icemaster143 said:


> Madara didn't see it as beyond his power on its own.



He didn't compare his eyes to Sasuke's directly. He just stated the obvious, I have both of your powers combined.


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Left hand and eye are the dominant ones.



But that never stopped him from having both. What if he gets the rinnegan Black zetsu is still holding on. 

Two dominant left eyes :amazed


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> *1]* The Sage was never shown with that third eye.



Sage was never shown using Sage Mode either. Guess it comes down to whether or not Sasuke can remove the tomoe - indicating a progession of the Rinnegan.

Think it's pretty obvious at this point though.



BlinkST said:


> *2]* The Sage likened Kaguya's eye to the Sharingan, because of it's power of hypnosis [MT]



I just can't.


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Sage was never shown using Sage Mode either.


Which has what exactly to do with the eye's design? 



Klue said:


> I just can't.


Sure you can.


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## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> *1]* The Sage was never shown with that third eye, so _he _couldn't have given it to him.
> *2]* The Sage likened Kaguya's eye to the Sharingan, because of it's power of hypnosis [MT]



true.... but all signs still point to it being a higher form


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Which has what exactly to do with the eye's design?



He doesn't have it, because we haven't seen him use it yet? 

But it no longer matters. Shinju's eye isn't a chakra fruit only thing. And it has, Rinnegan powers. 




BlinkST said:


> Sure you can.



No, I just can't. You know it wasn't called a Sharingan.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> Both of them .Rinnegan+Yin chakra.
> It seems to be a 6 tomeos one.



I don't think it's only 6 tomoes. It seems like it'll be 9 based off this panel.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I don't think it's only 6 tomoes. It seems like it'll be 9 based off this panel.



Yes it's a 9 tomeo Rinnegan.


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> He doesn't have it, because we haven't seen him use it yet?



 10 tails' jinchuriki are already in Sage mode, and Madara just said those black balls Naruto got are "Senjutsu". You can tell I'm _not_ about to buy into that "Senjutsu" theory.  



Klue said:


> But it no longer matters. Shinju's eye isn't a chakra fruit only thing. And it has, Rinnegan powers.


 But the "ghastly" MT still = _"End of the world"_, apparently. Not excited for "Rinnegan" powers.  



Klue said:


> No, I just can't. You know it wasn't called a Sharingan.


You know it wasn't "called" a Rinnegan, either, if you want to play "technical" games.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

More like a 9 tome Sharingan.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> More like a 9 tome Sharingan.



It's a Rinnegan. it was called a Rinnegan.So it's a 9 tomeos Rinnegan.


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

/\ rikudou called the very same eye a sharingan 

people will go on forever with the rinnegan and sharingan thing, even more now that the eye was called both things


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## fakkiha (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> /\ rikudou called the very same eye a sharingan
> 
> people will go on forever with the rinnegan and sharingan thing, even more now that the eye was called both things



when was it called sharingan?


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> /\ rikudou called the very same eye a sharingan
> 
> people will go on forever with the rinnegan and sharingan thing, even more now that the eye was called both things



No, Hagoromo said his mother used both Byakugan and Sharingan powers!
He never gave a name to the eye!
However Madara just did this chapter ,he confirmed its a Rinnegan.
It may be a higher form of it but it;s still a Rinnegan.


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## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

why cant people just call it the Sharinegan?

all we need to know is Sasuke's new eye is superior

next chapter cant come soon enough...... mad hype


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> No, Hagoromo said his mother used both Byakugan and Sharingan powers!
> He never gave a name to the eye!
> However Madara just did this chapter ,he confirmed its a Rinnegan.
> It may be a higher form of it but it;s still a Rinnegan.


are you trying to tell me that Kaguya didnt use rinnegan powers so?


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> 10 tails' jinchuriki are already in Sage mode, and Madara just said those black balls Naruto got are "Senjutsu". You can tell I'm _not_ about to buy into that "Senjutsu" theory.



Information we just learned in this very chapter. 

The fact that he hasn't shown the eye, doesn't mean it isn't in his possession. If anything, it begs the question of how he was able to give this version of the Rinnegan to Sasuke?

He did say he would share his power, did he not?

And his power is still greater than Madara's.  




BlinkST said:


> But the "ghastly" MT still = _"End of the world"_, apparently. Not excited for "Rinnegan" powers.



Yes, we know he wants to use ocular genjutsu to enslave the world - an ability the lowest level of the eye retains from the OG Rinnegan.

:ignoramus 




BlinkST said:


> You know it wasn't "called" a Rinnegan, either, if you want to play "technical" games.



He said Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan; therefore, we can call it a Rinnegan. 

Hagoromo said Kaguya possessed Sharingan's power; therefore, we know this eye possess Sharingan's power.


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## Punished Pathos (Apr 16, 2014)

I dubbed the eye "The Original Sharingan"


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> It's a Rinnegan. it was called a Rinnegan.So it's a 9 tomeos Rinnegan.



Madara also said he would beat both Naruto and Sasuke. 

He's about to learn a lesson hard and fast. It will ultimately boil down to his incorrect belief that combining Yin and Yang in one body. 

What Sasuke has is more than a Rinnegan, and it would not surprise me if it was down to the Yang's absence. The Rinnegan ( something without tome) has always been Yin and Yang based, at least what Rikudou has. Whilst the Sharingan is defined by its Yin chakra; everything points towards Sasuke receiving in a boost in his Yin chakra and more tome has been added to his Sharingan.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> are you trying to tell me that Kaguya didnt use rinnegan powers so?



For Mugen Tsukyomi? No, she didn't. Her gruesome jutsu was made up of the powers of Sharingan and Byukugan.


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

jacamo said:


> why cant people just call it the Sharinegan?
> 
> all we need to know is Sasuke's new eye is superior
> 
> next chapter cant come soon enough...... mad hype



It's like a maury show. who is the father? 

Sharingan or Rinnegan?'

Madara could be saying Rinnegan because of the rings, but it could be a "Sharingan" because of the tomoe.  *Why* did Madara say Rinnegan is the question


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> More like a 9 tome Sharingan.



With rings of the Rinnegan


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 16, 2014)

The EMS wasn't enough.

I love the fact that Sasuke's eyes have actually surpassed Madara's as well. No idea how crazy his Susanoo will be.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> are you trying to tell me that Kaguya didnt use rinnegan powers so?



No, Hagoromo stated she used Sharingan powers and Byakugan powers when describing the MT and it's effects.He didn't say she wasn't using Rinnegan powers or what else she had.
And if you want to really be technical the Sharingan final form was always a Rinnegan.
Basically they are one and the same.
The same line of dojutsu.
This chapter though it's the first time kaguyas eye has been named.
It's going to be a Rinnegan with Sharingan powers as well just like i predicted long ago.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Madara also said he would beat both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> He's about to learn a lesson hard and fast. It will ultimately boil down to his incorrect belief that combining Yin and Yang in one body.
> 
> What Sasuke has is more than a Rinnegan, and it would not surprise me if it was down to the Yang's absence. The Rinnegan ( something without tome) has always been Yin and Yang based, at least what Rikudou has. Whilst the Sharingan is defined by its Yin chakra; everything points towards Sasuke receiving in a boost in his Yin chakra and more tome has been added to his Sharingan.



Kabuto, revived Sasuke, with Hashirama's cells. And it's still possible that Rikudou slipped in a bit of his Yang energy to keep him in balance with Naruto.

Regardless, Yang isn't absent.


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## Lord Aizen (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm calling it sharinnegan and I'm confused as to how sasuke got it. When the sage himself does not


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

the painels are clearly pointing what he is talking about here, the eye in the forehead is separated from byakugan, unless you guys think that rinnegan doesnt have byakugan, which doesnt make sense 

the big fuck up here is exacly the fact that Kaguya eye powers are separated, the eye in the forehead didnt include byakugan... if you believe that rinnegan itself has byakugan, it doesnt work


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## fakkiha (Apr 16, 2014)

If it's red it's a sharingan if it's purple it's a rinnegan.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Madara also said he would beat both Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> He's about to learn a lesson hard and fast. It will ultimately boil down to his incorrect belief that combining Yin and Yang in one body.
> 
> What Sasuke has is more than a Rinnegan, and it would not surprise me if it was down to the Yang's absence. The Rinnegan ( something without tome) has always been Yin and Yang based, at least what Rikudou has. Whilst the Sharingan is defined by its Yin chakra; everything points towards Sasuke receiving in a boost in his Yin chakra and more tome has been added to his Sharingan.



Untill Madara's statment is disproved by Sasuke or anyone else calling the eye another name than It will stay as a Rinnegan with tomeos.
a higher form of it but still a Rinnegan .Sasuke also got Hashiramas chakras and cells giving him the Yang part that's missing.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

fakkiha said:


> If it's red it's a sharingan if it's purple it's a rinnegan.


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## fakkiha (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> the painels are clearly pointing what he is talking about here, the eye in the forehead is separated from byakugan, unless you guys think that rinnegan doesnt have byakugan, which doesnt make sense
> 
> the big fuck up here is exacly the fact that Kaguya eye powers are separated, the eye in the forehead didnt include byakugan... if you believe that rinnegan itself has byakugan, it doesnt work



 Yeah I am ok with this


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> Untill Madara's statment is disproved by Sasuke or anyone else calling the eye another name than It will stay as a Rinnegan with tomeos.
> a higher form of it but still a Rinnegan .Sasuke also got Hashiramas chakras and cells giving him the Yang part that's missing.



You can't really say "its a rinnegan with tomoe"

The best way to put it is Juubi's Eye or the Tree's eye. It would have been different if Sasuke didn't have the comma in his eye, then it would be Rinnegn 100%. What he has is implied as better than the Rinnegan because he got it from granddaddy sage. So the question is, what came first in the case of Sasuke eye.


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## sasutachi (Apr 16, 2014)

isnt rinnegan and sharingan are basically same thing. 
i dont remember but did manga show that hagoromo has sharinnegan eye ever?


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> No, Hagoromo stated she used Sharingan powers and Byakugan powers when describing the MT and it's effects.He didn't say she wasn't using Rinnegan powers or what else she had.
> And if you want to really be technical the Sharingan final form was always a Rinnegan.
> Basically they are one and the same.
> The same line of dojutsu.
> ...


what i am asking is a simple line of logic

right now Sasuke has an eye that looks exacly like Kaguya's forehead eye.

Kaguya, besides this forehead eye, had two byakugans.

if rinnegan includes byakugan, it cant be the forehead eye. May it be the combination of both eyes maybe also used by her? perhaps, but then its not the forehead eye, its a result of combination. By design and eye itself, and the way Kishi separated it, it doesnt make sense.

I think it makes more sense to believe that Rikudou was the one who made Kaguya's power compact in a great eye.


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> *Information we just learned in this very chapter.*
> 
> The fact that he hasn't shown the eye, doesn't mean it isn't in his possession. If anything, it begs the question of how he was able to give this version of the Rinnegan to Sasuke?



 *1]* Information we've known since Naruto attacked Obito: Jinchuriki already have Sage mode. Hagoromo didn't have those balls before he became a Jinchuriki, and he still had those balls when he became an anthology life form. You'll have to come up with some other _idea_ as to why he didn't have that eye. His mother is the only person flat-out said [By the man himself] to have _Sharingan_ powers. _He_ is not know for having Sharingan powers. 



Klue said:


> He did say he would share his power, did he not?


 So he shared Sage chakra, while leaving _no trace_ of Sage _markings_, like the kind that are triggered when Sasuke obtains natural energy? 



Klue said:


> Yes, we know he wants to use ocular genjutsu to enslave the world - an ability the lowest level of the eye retains from the OG Rinnegan.
> 
> :ignoramus


 Lowest level, yet equals end of the world, from the words of Hagoromo. Serious discussion here. 



Klue said:


> He said Sasuke awakened the Rinnegan; therefore, we can call it a Rinnegan.


Better for you to _wait_ until an alternative translation is up or the _next chapter_. It makes zero sense that what Sasuke has is the "Rinnegan", unless Madara is saying he obtained the _power_ of the Rinnegan, like Kaguya had the _power_ of the Sharingan.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> You can't really say "its a rinnegan with tomoe"
> 
> The best way to put it is Juubi's Eye or the Tree's eye. It would have been different if Sasuke didn't have the comma in his eye, then it would be Rinnegn 100%. What he has is implied as better than the Rinnegan because he got it from granddaddy sage. So the question is, what came first in the case of Sasuke eye.



It was straightly called Rinnegan this chapter, so i'll call it a Rinnegan till someone else gives it another name(i''l wait for a confirmed Takl translation).
This is the first chapter where this eye was called by a name, and guess what name it was?


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## Chaelius (Apr 16, 2014)

As long as it still looks like a sharingan, cool beans.


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

i have no side to defend here, you know, the only thing i question for the rinnegan fans here is this:


do you believe that rinnegan has byakugan powers?


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> It was straightly called Rinnegan this chapter, so i'll call it a Rinnegan till someone else gives it another name.
> This is the first chapter where this eye was called by a name, and guess what name it was?



The problem wiht this is that we don't understand how japanese was used to write that sentence. 

Just because he said "he has awoken the rinnegan" doesn't necessarily mean that. Japanese language is full of implications and confusing talk, I'm studying it. Until some Kanji come out, we won't know if Madara is saying "he has the Rinnegans power" or "he has the rinnegan."

One would mean he has the Rinnegans power mixed with the Sharingan (how does that work)

and the other would mean he has unlocked some Rinnegan hybrid (where does that come from and what that means in relation to lady kaguya)

*You can't read any of these manga off scanalations and take it word for word, because its not written in english.*


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

sasutachi said:


> isnt rinnegan and sharingan are basically same thing.



No, they are always separated, from the design to the powers they exercise. The Rinnegan has always been connected to hagoromo, while the Sharingan varied with individual. 



sasutachi said:


> i dont remember but did manga show that hagoromo has sharinnegan eye ever?


Nope.


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 16, 2014)

> i have no side to defend here, you know, the only thing i question for the rinnegan fans here is this:
> 
> 
> do you believe that rinnegan has byakugan powers?


In chapter 419 it displayed Byakugan like powers so it does to a certain degree.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Kabuto, revived Sasuke, with Hashirama's cells. And it's still possible that Rikudou slipped in a bit of his Yang energy to keep him in balance with Naruto.
> 
> Regardless, Yang isn't absent.



If Yin and Yang merged to create a Rinnegan, he would no longer contain Indra's spirit. I don't know what the purpose of Harashima's chakra is, but I doubt that it is responsible for Sasuke's eyes. 

That being said, I don't have a problem with calling it a Rinnegan, I just feel it is different to the Rinnegan we have seen to date. Both the Rinnegan and Sharingan look like watered down versions of the original. The Sharingan has a smaller amount of eyes, and the Rinnegan ( we typically see) lacks the tome. I believe that's down to the influence of Yang, as the Tome reappeared with the elder son ( Someone who was said to have inherited his father's eyes, despite having the Rinnegan). As a result I believe Sasuke Rinnegan/Sharingan is a result Rikudou increasing his Yin. End result is a completed Sharingan, or Rinnegan that is different to the one achieved by combining Yin and Yang.


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> *1]* Information we've known since Naruto attacked Obito: Jinchuriki already have Sage mode. Hagoromo didn't have those balls before he became a Jinchuriki, and he still had those balls when he became an anthology life form. You'll have to come up with some other _idea_ as to why he didn't have that eye. His mother is the only person flat-out said [By the man himself] to have _Sharingan_ powers. _He_ is not know for having Sharingan powers.



Of course you're right. He is only know for possessing the blood and powers of both Uchiha and Senju.

Uchiha's don't have Sharingan powers. 

But you're correct, Kaguya was explicitly stated to possess Sharingan's powers. However, Hagoromo did not call that eye a Sharingan.

Can't stress that enough.




BlinkST said:


> So he shared Sage chakra, while leaving _no trace_ of Sage _markings_, like the kind that are triggered when Sasuke obtains natural energy?



Guess so. Naruto doesn't have any markings, does he?




BlinkST said:


> Lowest level, yet equals end of the world, from the words of Hagoromo. Serious discussion here.



Sharingan is at the bottom of the hierarchy, it's the first eye an Uchiha awakens. The Sharingan uses ocular illusions - Madara used the same genjutsu on Obito when he revealed his plan, and explained everything.

The Shinju's chakra is the most important thing here.

No matter how you flip it, the Sharingan's power originates from the OG Rinnegan. :ignoramus



BlinkST said:


> Better for you to _wait_ until an alternative translation is up or the _next chapter_. It makes zero sense that what Sasuke has is the "Rinnegan", unless Madara is saying he obtained the _power_ of the Rinnegan, like Kaguya had the _power_ of the Sharingan.



Zero sense to someone that did not want this very scenario to come to pass. :ignoramus

And I don't recall you waiting two weeks ago when you thought you won.


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> YES!!!!!!!!!
> WE won!!!!!!!!!!!



I really should have saved the printscreens or bookmarked the posts that said Sasuke would never have it.


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

maybe what is fucking up the logic is that Rikudou was Juubi's jin.

Madara right now managed to get the eye by absorbing the tree and being juubi jin, maybe we are missing info on what Rikudou's true power as a jinchuuriki was

Naruto and Sasuke are being set to fight a kaguya-like guy, but this same guy talked as if Naruto and Sasuke hold Rikudou's stuff , shouldnt this make Kaguya and Juubi Rikudou equals? Either Madara is wrong, or Juubi Rikudou was more powerful than we think.


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## DemonBorn4569 (Apr 16, 2014)

Its all the same crap anyway all doujutsu come from the same place, call it whatever you want, true rinnegan, super sharingan, super duper evolved byakugan.


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

Luiz said:


> I really should have saved the printscreens or bookmarked the posts that said Sasuke would never have it.


i won a bet with Mofo , though i think that i will not request his rep, im not that bad


----------



## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm waiting for everyone else in the "EMS is enough" crew to arrive to see their responses.


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## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

When we find out who talked to Madara all of this will be cleared up. 

The bigger questions here are...

1. it makes sense of for the holy tree to protect itself using a feral beast. thats nature.
2. How can this thing talk?
3. Is it lady kaguya? 
4. What really happened when she ate the fruit?
5. How does absorbing the tree help Madara win?


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> maybe what is fucking up the logic is that Rikudou was Juubi's jin.
> 
> Madara right now managed to get the eye by absorbing the tree and being juubi jin, maybe we are missing info on what Rikudou's true power as a jinchuuriki was
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke are being set to fight a kaguya-like guy, but this same guy talked as if Naruto and Sasuke hold Rikudou's stuff , shouldnt this make Kaguya and Juubi Rikudou equals? Either Madara is wrong, or Juubi Rikudou was more powerful than we think.



You mean Being a Jin upgraded Hagoromos original power?could be.


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> You mean Being a Jin upgraded Hagoromos original power?could be.


yep

this could mean that Juubi Rikudou = Kaguya


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> I'm waiting for everyone else in the "EMS is enough" crew to arrive to see their responses.



Don't bother, they won't show.


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## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Of course you're right. He is only know for possessing the blood and powers of both Uchiha and Senju.
> 
> Uchiha's don't have Sharingan powers.


That was contextually referring to Yin and Yang. 



Klue said:


> But you're correct, Kaguya was explicitly stated to possess Sharingan's powers. However, Hagoromo did not call that eye a Sharingan.
> 
> Can't stress that enough.


He was referring to that eye when discussing MT, and he didn't call it a "Rinnegan" either, unlike what _Madara_ is doing now. It boils down to whether or not you think Hagoromo was describing the power obtained by the eye or the eye by itself.  



Klue said:


> Guess so. Naruto doesn't have any markings, does he?


He still has the frog eyes.  



Klue said:


> *Sharingan is at the bottom of the hierarchy, it's the first eye an Uchiha awakens.* The Sharingan uses ocular illusions - Madara used the same genjutsu on Obito when he revealed his plan, and explained everything.
> 
> The Shinju's chakra is the most important thing here.


1] Other way around; it's at the top.

2] None of that applies to Kaguya's third eye.  



Klue said:


> Zero sense to someone that did not want this very scenario to come to pass. :ignoramus


Zero sense to someone doing some critical thinking. Serious discussion, here, folks.


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 16, 2014)

Blink give it up son please


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## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

Madara has taken all steps to become like Juubi Rikudou, yet he is representing Kaguya now, and is in parallel with two characters sharing Juubi Rikudou's power

maybe Rikudou meant that Kaguya was stronger before he became Jin


----------



## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> yep
> 
> this could mean that Juubi Rikudou = Kaguya



Yea which would make sense since Hagoromo before becoming a Jin needed his brother against their mother and the juubi.
Hagoromo after the juubi became at least as powerful as Kaguya.


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## Dolohov27 (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> i have no side to defend here, you know, the only thing i question for the rinnegan fans here is this:
> 
> 
> do you believe that rinnegan has byakugan powers?


 Yes, i think so. How else is Madara able to see the pressure points in the body. Plus the shared vision kind of functions lke Byakugan 360 degree vision. There's also Nagato being able to see the Konoha's barrier which is very Byakugan like.


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## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> i won a bet with Mofo , though i think that i will not request his rep, im not that bad



*appears on Jeanne's right shoulder in the form of a little devil*

No, no.

Jeanne.

Listen to me.

You need to give in to your desires. You know how awesome it's gonna feel to make Mofo pay for his mistake. 

Come...


----------



## Jeαnne (Apr 16, 2014)

Dolohov27 said:


> Yes, i think so. How else is Madara able to see the pressure points in the body. Plus the shared vision kind of functions lke Byakugan 360 degree vision. There's also Nagato being able to see the Konoha's barrier which is very Byakugan like.


yeap we came to a conclusion that made sense here



vered said:


> Yea which would make sense since Hagoromo before becoming a Jin needed his brother against their mother and the juubi.
> Hagoromo after the juubi became at least as powerful as Kaguya.


it works too well to not be the case


----------



## shintebukuro (Apr 16, 2014)

Luiz said:


> I really should have saved the printscreens or bookmarked the posts that said Sasuke would never have it.



I don't really think you understand.

When people claimed he wouldn't get Rinnegan, they were referring to the eye Nagato/Obito/Madara/Hagoromo had, not Kaguya/Jyuubi's which we called by a different name...


At the end of the day, the name of the eye isn't important. We associated "Rinnegan" as the light purple, concentric circled eyeball originally possessed by Hagoromo, utlizing both Yin and Yang, and allowing the usage of Rikudou jutsu. That's _not_ what Sasuke has.


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 16, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> Madara has taken all steps to become like Juubi Rikudou, yet he is representing Kaguya now, and is in parallel with two characters sharing Juubi Rikudou's power
> 
> maybe Rikudou meant that Kaguya was stronger before he became Jin



I get a feeling that Kaguya in her own body will somehow be stronger than Madara representing her power.





shintebukuro said:


> I don't really think you understand.
> 
> When people claimed he wouldn't get Rinnegan, they were referring to the eye Nagato/Obito/Madara/Hagoromo had, not Kaguya/Jyuubi's which we called by a different name...
> 
> ...



This is true. 

At the same time, most people I've seen have stated Sasuke's eyes wouldn't evolve at all which was ludicrous in general. I just don't know what people were thinking assuming Sasuke wouldn't get greater eyes.


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> I don't really think you understand.
> 
> When people claimed he wouldn't get Rinnegan, they were referring to the eye Nagato/Obito/Madara/Hagoromo had, not Kaguya/Jyuubi's which we called by a different name...
> 
> ...



Nothing personal Shintebukuro, but let's be honest.

You do realize how pathetic that sounds.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

shintebukuro said:


> I don't really think you understand.
> 
> When people claimed he wouldn't get Rinnegan, they were referring to the eye Nagato/Obito/Madara/Hagoromo had, not Kaguya/Jyuubi's which we called by a different name...
> 
> ...



Doesn't apply to those that believed the Juubi's eye to be a higher form of the Rinnegan. Something vered, Munboy and I suggested for some time now.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Apr 16, 2014)

I think what we know as the Rinnegan wasn't actually rinnegan. Because the original eye seems like it is a combination of sharingan & rinnegan.


----------



## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

MS translation confirms It's a Rinnegan:
We'll wait for Takl but It's 2 translations saying the same thing.
*Look at his eyes.*


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Apr 16, 2014)

I think this is a case of Madara being ignorant to the realities of what he's dealing with.


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## Edo Madara (Apr 16, 2014)

It's Mangekyou Rinnegan


----------



## Sword Sage (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> MS translation confirms It's a Rinnegan:
> We'll wait for Takl but It's 2 translations saying the same thing.
> Link removed



That's not the true Rinnegan if needs both yin and yang to have the same level of the Hogomaro Sasuke only has the yin doesn't mean he surpass Madara nor Sasuke.

It looks more like sharingan to me.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Edo Madara said:


> It's Mangekyou Rinnegan



Said it years ago. Oh yeah!


----------



## SageEnergyMode (Apr 16, 2014)

Holy shit, I like that! Mangekyou Rinnegan. I love the sound of that!


----------



## Gilgamesh (Apr 16, 2014)

Matrix XZ said:


> That's not the true Rinnegan if needs both yin and yang to have the same level of the Hogomaro Sasuke only has the yin doesn't mean he surpass Madara nor Sasuke.
> 
> It looks more like sharingan to me.



Mate it's the Rinnegan 

It's over man over


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Matrix XZ said:


> That's not the true Rinnegan if needs both yin and yang to have the same level of the Hogomaro Sasuke only has the yin doesn't mean he surpass Madara nor Sasuke.
> 
> It looks more like sharingan to me.



It was called a Rinnegan.Deal with it.
Sasuke got Hashiramas chakra and cells within him, so it's not really a problem as far as Yang chakra goes.
Link removed
You need to remember that there are many things we have yet to learn and Understand about the Rinnegan, so for me it's not a surprise in the least.


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## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

Matrix XZ said:


> That's not the true Rinnegan if needs both yin and yang to have the same level of the Hogomaro Sasuke only has the yin doesn't mean he surpass Madara nor Sasuke.
> 
> It looks more like sharingan to me.



Ohh yes, denial... 

Just four stages to go.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chaelius (Apr 16, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Nothing personal Shintebukuro, but let's be honest.
> 
> You do realize how that pathetic that sounds.



It's true though, I always mantained that Sasuke would get a huge dojutsu upgrade but that the rinnegan's design would not fit Sasuke, it looks too bland and passive, this design fits Sasuke's characteristics, sharinnegan, sharingan or rinnegan  it doesn't matter what it's called, I also recall that the suggestion of Sasuke getting Jubi/Kaguya's eye was mostly dismissed.


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## Arles Celes (Apr 16, 2014)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> I get a feeling that Kaguya in her own body will somehow be stronger than Madara representing her power.
> 
> This is true.
> 
> At the same time, most people I've seen have stated Sasuke's eyes wouldn't evolve at all which was ludicrous in general. I just don't know what people were thinking assuming Sasuke wouldn't get greater eyes.



Maybe Kaguya's body is long gone and she survives as a vengeful spirit in the Shinju.

Now she tries to possess Madara possibly due to similar beliefs and similar Shinju-based power.

She may try to take over Sasuke once Madara dies.


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## Kyuubi Naruto (Apr 16, 2014)

Arles Celes said:


> Maybe Kaguya's body is long gone and she survives as a vengeful spirit in the Shinju.
> 
> Now she tries to possess Madara possibly due to similar beliefs and similar Shinju-based power.
> 
> She may try to take over Sasuke once Madara dies.



That is possible too. 

She'll probably explain it later on when she's revealed so I look forward to it.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

It is a Yin-Rinnegan.

Seriously though, I find it odd that people think what formed it is the same as what formed Madara. Seeing as there is a blatant difference between the two eyes. That difference being Sasuke's resembling the actual Juubi and R's mother; whilst Madara's Rinnegan resembles the eyes of a second generation ( mutated) Rinnegan user.

The eye Sasuke has more than likely surpasses Madara's, and it is definitely different. It is premature to assume it is the product of Yin and Yang. More so, when you consider the fact that the series has placed further emphasis on Naruto and Sasuke representing each force.


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## eurytus (Apr 16, 2014)

It's the original rinnegan. but how come the sage didn't have one? he got a diamond in his forehead instead?? xD


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## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

eurytus said:


> It's the original rinnegan. but how come the sage didn't have one? he got a diamond in his forehead instead?? xD



Haven't seen him with it yet doesn't mean he didn't have it. This chapter should seal the deal. He literally gave this power to Sasuke.


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## shintebukuro (Apr 16, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Nothing personal Shintebukuro, but let's be honest.
> 
> You do realize how that pathetic that sounds.



No, not at all. Would you mind explaining?

Because telling me my response sounds "pathetic" seems more like a flame than an actual response with integrity and substance...


			
				Chaelius said:
			
		

> It's true though, I always mantained that Sasuke would get a huge dojutsu upgrade but that the rinnegan's design would not fit Sasuke, it looks too bland and passive, this design fits Sasuke's characteristics, sharinnegan, sharingan or rinnegan it doesn't matter what it's called, I also recall that the suggestion of Sasuke getting Jubi/Kaguya's eye was mostly dismissed.



Yeah, I have literally been arguing the same exact thing for years. I have always said that fiery red eyes w/ tomoe are Sasuke's design, and that he'd never receive the Rinnegan because it's too bland.

In fact, I argued that instead of Rinnegan, Sasuke would awaken Jyuubi's eye.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm guessing this is the true rinnegan while Hagoromo's and Madara's are diluted versions.


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## ThunderCunt (Apr 16, 2014)

Finally a rinnegan that too with tomeo. So the theories were right.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> It is a Yin-Rinnegan.
> 
> Seriously though, I find it odd that people think what formed it is the same as what formed Madara. Seeing as there is a blatant difference between the two eyes. That difference being Sasuke's resembling the actual Juubi and R's mother; whilst Madara's Rinnegan resembles the eyes of a second generation ( mutated) Rinnegan user.
> 
> The eye Sasuke has more than likely surpasses Madara's, and it is definitely different. It is premature to assume it is the product of Yin and Yang. More so, when you consider the fact that the series has placed further emphasis on Naruto and Sasuke representing each force.



That's what i said ,i predicted that Sasuke would get a Red Rinnegan and i was almost right.
Regular Rinnegan+Yin power of Hagoromo=9 tomeos Rinnegan.
Sasuke will use MS techs and Rinnegan ones together and surpass Madara.


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## fakkiha (Apr 16, 2014)

It's not an incomplete rinnegan, it's a more complete version of Madara's one. If it was an incomplete 0.5 Rinnegan like you say, then it wouldnt be exactly like Kaguya's one.


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## Sword Sage (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> It was called a Rinnegan.Deal with it.
> Sasuke got Hashiramas chakra and cells within him, so it's not really a problem as far as Yang chakra goes.
> Link removed
> You need to remember that there are many things we have yet to learn and Understand about the Rinnegan, so for me it's not a surprise in the least.



That's because you wanted Sasuke to have Rinnegan,

That's not the same wouldn't Naruto have the yin chakra too? That would only mean Sasuke is a fake like Madara who uses cells to awaken Rinnegan.

Sasuke is suppose to have  the yin not both yin and yang. Hashiram chakra are said to be yang right.

It still not the same Rinnegan or higher as we know.


If you think Sasuke surpassed Madara then why is he with Naruto to defeat him together?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> That's what i said ,i predicted that Sasuke would get a Red Rinnegan and i was almost right.
> Regular Rinnegan+Yin power of Hagoromo=9 tomeos Rinnegan.
> Sasuke will use MS techs and Rinnegan ones together and surpass Madara.



No what I said, is not what you said. The Regular Rinnegan, in the equation, would suggest that without bolstering his Yin power, he would have the Regular Rinnegan, which I don't agree with. 

How I see things is

Yin + Sharingan= 9 tome Sharingan or Rinnegan. 

It actually follows the pattern of the Sharingan's basic evolution, and would not mess with the transmigration business. It would also explain the difference between Madara and Hagaromo's Rinnegan, and Sasuke's.


----------



## Max Thunder (Apr 16, 2014)

Yes, on the other hand though, will Sasuke still get a sage mode?


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> No what I said, is not what you said. The Regular Rinnegan, in the equation, would suggest that without bolstering his Yin power, he would have the Regular Rinnegan, which I don't agree with.
> 
> How I see things is
> 
> ...



You mean to say Sasuke's Rinnegan is different from Hagoromos and Madaras Rinnegan. which may be true.More to say that was what the Rinnegan was supposed to be in the first place.
Hagoromo's Rinnegan may have been a diluted Rinnegan so to speak to the 9 tomeos Rinnegan.
But i think that Sasuke would have had the regular Rinnegan without Hagoromos Yin chakra since He basicly went through the same process like Madara including Hashiramas Cells and chakra and being on deaths doors.
The yin part gave him the missing tomeos.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> No what I said, is not what you said. The Regular Rinnegan, in the equation, would suggest that without bolstering his Yin power, he would have the Regular Rinnegan, which I don't agree with.
> 
> How I see things is
> 
> ...



One can't simply take the Yang away and still call it a Rinnegan. And besides, Naruto has other parts of Rikudou's power. Sasuke needs more than just Yin.


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## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

> You mean to say Sasuke's Rinnegan is different from Hagoromos and Madaras Rinnegan. which may be true.More to say that was what the Rinnegan was supposed to be in the first place.
> Hagoromo's Rinnegan may have been a diluted Rinnegan so to speak to the 9 tomeos Rinnegan.
> But i think that Sasuke would have had the regular Rinnegan without Hagoromos Yin chakra since He basicly went through the same process like Madara including Hashiramas Cells and chakra and being on deaths doors.
> The yin part gave him the missing tomeos.


He didn't go through the same process as Madara. What Madara did resulted in a merger of Indra's and Ashura's chakra; seeing as Sasuke still has Indra's soul with him, the two brother's chakra did not merge for him. 

There's also the fact that only one of his eyes is like that. If he went through the same process as Madara, you would expect him to have the tomeless Rinnegan in the other eye.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> He didn't go through the same process as Madara. What Madara did resulted in a merger of Indra's and Ashura's chakra; seeing as Sasuke still has Indra's soul with him, the two brother's chakra did not merge for him.
> 
> There's also the fact that only one of his eyes is like that. If he went through the same process as Madara, you would expect him to have the tomeless Rinnegan in the other eye.



Then Hagoromo gave him Yang powers along with Yin, but only in his left eye. Regardless, the Rinnegan requires both parts.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Then Hagoromo gave him Yang powers along with Yin, but only in his left eye. Regardless, the Rinnegan requires both parts.



Yes that makes perfect sense. Moments after disapproving of Madara merging the Yin and Yang chakra together, he would do the same with Sasuke. 

The Rinnegan that Madara has requires both parts. What Sasuke has is evidently different to what Madara has; it has never been stated that the eye Sasuke has requires both Yin and Yang chakra.


----------



## eurytus (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> There's also the fact that only one of his eyes is like that..



you can't get both eyes like that, even juubi and Kaguya only had one eye like that.


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> I understand that, but he called it a Rinnegan. It's probably a higher form.



It's all odd since in chapter 671 Hagoromo also called that eye the Sharingan. 

What the F, Kishi!?


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Yes that makes perfect sense. Moments after disapproving of Madara merging the Yin and Yang chakra together, he would do the same with Sasuke.



He didn't want someone to gain that power to move forward with Mugen Tsukyomi. Sasuke is working along side Naruto to stop Madara.

So, yeah, it makes sense.

The "Indra only powered Rinnegan," doesn't exist. 



Gunners said:


> The Rinnegan that Madara has requires both parts. What Sasuke has is evidently different to what Madara has; it has never been stated that the eye Sasuke has requires both Yin and Yang chakra.



Umm, it's been made clear that the Rinnegan requires both parts. And Sasuke's eye is still a Rinnegan.


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

eurytus said:


> you can't get both eyes like that, even juubi and Kaguya only had one eye like that.



Hagoromo also had only one.


----------



## eurytus (Apr 16, 2014)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> It's all odd since in chapter 671 Hagoromo also called that eye the Sharingan.
> 
> What the F, Kishi!?



rinnegan is another type of sharingan, so he's not wrong


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> It's all odd since in chapter 671 Hagoromo also called that eye the Sharingan.
> 
> What the F, Kishi!?



He didn't call it a Sharingan:


*Spoiler*: __ 





Klue said:


> Nether translation called it the Sharingan.
> 
> _"My mother beside the Byakugan" - MP
> "On top of having the Byakugan" - MS_​
> ...


----------



## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> It's all odd since in chapter 671 Hagoromo also called that eye the Sharingan.
> 
> What the F, Kishi!?



He didn't call the eye a sharingan, he said that Kaguya  used Byakugan's and Sharingan's powers.
This chapter is the first time the eye actually gets a name and it's exactly like how many of us predicted for a long time.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

eurytus said:


> you can't get both eyes like that, even juubi and Kaguya only had one eye like that.


What was the point in your post? There is a reason why the sentence you quoted was followed by another sentence.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Apr 16, 2014)

Naruto has Yin (from Yin Kyuubi) and Sasuke has Yang (from Shodai)...

neither are exclusively yin or yang, they simply have one in more abundance.

Also, Sasuke's eye is the true rinnegan; the one with tomoe, like the Shinju and Kaguya had...

what Madara awoke and gave to Nagato, that is an incomplete version (most likely).


----------



## eurytus (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> What was the point in your post? There is a reason why the sentence you quoted was followed by another sentence.



I don't feel your 2nd sentence explains the first. It explains why his other eye didn't become tomoless rinnegan. But all the sharinnegans we've seen do not come in a pair, it's always one.


----------



## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> He didn't want someone to gain that power to move forward with Mugen Tsukyomi. Sasuke is working along side Naruto to stop Madara.
> 
> So, yeah, it makes sense.
> 
> The "Indra only powered Rinnegan," doesn't exist.



It's funny, I don't remember him mentioning MT in his displeasure. Just the pursuit of power. Furthermore ( I have said this before), the merger of the chakra would result in Indra's soul departing. 

So not it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for Rikudou to do something he disapproved of. And it doesn't make sense for him to end the transmigration, when it finally looks as though the feud between siblings can be resolved. 




> Umm, it's been made clear that the Rinnegan requires both parts. And Sasuke's eye is still a Rinnegan.



Sasuke's Rinnegan is different to Hagaromo's and Madara's Rinnegan. I challenge you to find me a page, where it is stated that the eye Sasuke currently has is dependent on both Yin and Yang chakra; if you do that, I will yield to your assertions. 

Because as far as I'm concerned. All mention of Yin + Yang resulting in a Rinnegan has resulted in the tomeless Rinnegan. It might have the same name, but it is very different in appearance to the eye Sasuke has. 

Although what is worthy of note, is that the brother who inherited his father's eyes without the presence of Yang, adopted an eye with a ring and tome present. One could easily reach the conclusion that a drastic increase in Yin chakra would see the birth of more tome and rings.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> It's funny, I don't remember him mentioning MT in his displeasure. Just the pursuit of power.



He wanted both brothers to cooperate and find the answer to peace. The tablet offers an alternative to doing what Madara is trying to accomplish right now.

Gain the strongest chakra, and rule the world with the MEP.



Gunners said:


> Furthermore ( I have said this before), the merger of the chakra would result in Indra's soul departing.



Which has as much backing support as a Yang-less Rinnegan that closely resembles the source entity's eye.

Madara is no longer Indra's Reincarnate because he died, and Sasuke was born. Has nothing to do with him acquiring Asura's chakra.  



Gunners said:


> So not it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for Rikudou to do something he disapproved of. And it doesn't make sense for him to end the transmigration, when it finally looks as though the feud between siblings can be resolved.
> 
> Sasuke's Rinnegan is different to Hagaromo's and Madara's Rinnegan. I challenge you to find me a page, where it is stated that the eye Sasuke currently has is dependent on both Yin and Yang chakra; if you do that, I will yield to your assertions.



Umm, you're the one that needs to provide evidence. 



Gunners said:


> Because as far as I'm concerned. All mention of Yin + Yang resulting in a Rinnegan has resulted in the tomeless Rinnegan. It might have the same name, but it is very different in appearance to the eye Sasuke has.



So, remove the Yang, add more Yin, and you'll gain an eye identical to the Shinju?

Remove Yang, to gain what is apparently, a more complete eye.



Gunners said:


> Although what is worthy of note, is that the brother who inherited his father's eyes without the presence of Yang, adopted an eye with a ring and tome present. One could easily reach the conclusion that a drastic increase in Yin chakra would see the birth of more tome and rings.



WTF did I just read?

An increase in Yin creates the Mangekyou, then the Eternal Mangekyou.


----------



## Jizznificent (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Confirmed.


you made this thread just because you really wanted to rub this in BlinkST's face, didn't you?


----------



## Gunners (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> He wanted both brothers to cooperate and find the answer to peace. The tablet offers an alternative to doing what Madara is trying to accomplish right now.
> 
> Gain the strongest chakra, and rule the world with the MEP.


Wanting the brother's to cooperate does not negate him not wanting the two chakra to exist in one body. The tablet offers the alternative to what Madara is doing now, the two forces existing separate of one another ( Naruto and Sasuke right now). Sasuke having both forces would not be the alternative Hagaromo proposed. 



> Which has as much backing support as a Yang-less Rinnegan that closely resembles the source entity's eye.
> 
> Madara is no longer Indra's Reincarnate because he died, and Sasuke was born. Has nothing to do with him acquiring Asura's chakra.


I was under the impression that the transmigration ended when the two chakra successfully merged. 


> Umm, you're the one that needs to provide evidence.
> [


You are also making a claim, that you have not provided sufficient evidence to back. You are making the claim that Sasuke's Rinnegan adheres to the same principles as the ones to date. There's a significant difference in the eyes appearance, we don't know what caused the eye to awake, and we have Madara (fallible) referring to Sasuke's eyes as a Rinnegan. 



> WTF did I just read?
> 
> An increase in Yin creates the Mangekyou, then the Eternal Mangekyou.



Because there isn't a level exceeding EMS... wait a minute there is. The dispute is over whether it was caused by an increase in Yin or the addition of Yang. 

Anyway, I'm not going to respond after this post. Answers will be provided soon enough.


----------



## The Faceless Man (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Confirmed.
> 
> It's probably a higher form of the Rinnegan, or its true form? Kinda makes sense if you think about it.
> 
> ...



Congrats you won tho I told you that this will happen when Evil posted.

But man you got to scrap the senjutsu sasuke after this chapter...
cuz clearly your going in the woods with that theory


----------



## Seraphiel (Apr 16, 2014)

Poor Matrix, he tried so hard and got so far but in the end Sauce got the rinnegan


----------



## izanagi x izanami (Apr 16, 2014)

i believe hagoromo's speech and the design, its true sharingan .......


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

The Entire Forum said:


> i believe hagoromo's speech and the design, its true sharingan .......



the true form of the sharingan = rinnegan

....


----------



## Shanks (Apr 16, 2014)

Lolz. Sasuke Fanboys having a blast, huh?


----------



## fakkiha (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> the true form of the sharingan = rinnegan
> 
> ....



 If sharingan evolves into rinnegan, is the sharingan a rinnegan or is the rinnegan a sharingan? too confusing...


----------



## Maunten (Apr 16, 2014)

If Naruto has this new beast mode, Sasuke will have spiralgan (hopefully).


----------



## MangaR (Apr 16, 2014)

Original Sage of 6 paths called it Sharingan, some guy that didn't witness it and wasn't raised by this powerful being calls it Rinegan. What Sage says makes sense. Sharingan - evil eyes and Rinegan is the one that appeared after Sharingan + Byuakugan.

In reality it doesn't matter. I prefer fan made term Sharinegan, its way clearer.


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

Hagoromo said she had the power of Sharingan.

Phrasing.


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## PainHyuuga (Apr 16, 2014)

lets try to be logic about these eyes.

EMS + Hashi DNA = Rinnegan (Madara's version)
Rinnegan + Rinnegan (RS Eye Power) = Rinnegan x2

Using similar mutation like MS + MS = x2 MS = EMS

Sasukes Eyes = External Rinnegan  AKA the Original Kaguya Eye powers (after eating Fruit)

Kaguya who is inside Madara, possessed Sasukes eyes and has called it the Rinnegan, therefore let's just go with that name.


----------



## Shinryu (Apr 16, 2014)

Rinnegan Sasuke is now confirmed lmao at all the naysayers


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm calling it tie now. Sharingan and Rinnegan hybrid.


----------



## B.o.t.i (Apr 16, 2014)

Shinryu said:


> Rinnegan Sasuke is now confirmed lmao at all the naysayers



sasuke had to get something.It still don't doesn't make sense though considering indra just had spiral and regular sharingan.


----------



## Kishido (Apr 16, 2014)

So wait... Kaguya's Sharingan looked exactly like this and was a Sharingan... Now Sasuke has this eye and it is a Rinnegan... But Madara has a different eye and it is still a Rinnegan


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## Csdabest (Apr 16, 2014)

Like i said. E.M.S. or Sharinnegan either way Uchiha Wins Muahahahahhaa


----------



## B.o.t.i (Apr 16, 2014)

Kishido said:


> So wait... Kaguya's Sharingan looked exactly like this and was a Sharingan... Now Sasuke has this eye and it is a Rinnegan... But Madara has a different eye and it is still a Rinnegan



Actually kaguya looked like she had It was byakugan+sharingan+rin'negan. But rikudou said it was byakugan+sharingan.

As you said he just called rin'negan. kishi been making this shit up as he goes along. What ever the case rin'negan is pinnacle doujutsu.


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## Yuna (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Unless MP goofed on their trans. It makes zero sense for Hagoromo's "Rinnegan" to be purple and lack tomoe, and Sasuke's to resemble the Shinju's/ Kaguya's eye [Which Hagoromo called the Sharingan].


He didn't actually call it the Sharingan. He said that Kaguya possessed *the power of the Sharingan*. That special eye of Kaguya's (and the Juubi's) technically still lacks a name.

In fact, it's quite interesting how Hagoromo specifically said "Not only did my mother posses the Byakugan, she also possessed the powers of the Sharingan". He actually states that Kaguya had the Byakugan, but only goes as far as stating that she has the powers of the Sharingan. That's a weird way of phrasing it.


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## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

Kishido said:


> So wait... Kaguya's Sharingan looked exactly like this and was a Sharingan... Now Sasuke has this eye and it is a Rinnegan... But Madara has a different eye and it is still a Rinnegan



Kaguyas was never called a Sharingan, people need to actually read the manga carefully ,especially the phrasing .Hagoromo only said she had Sharingan powers.
This chapter, the eye was finally named as a Rinnegan.


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## Kishido (Apr 16, 2014)

vered said:


> Kaguyas was never called a Sharingan, people need to actually read the manga carefully ,especially the phrasing .Hagoromo only said she had Sharingan powers.
> This chapter, the eye was finally named as a Rinnegan.



So Madara has a Rinnegan as well but without Sharingan powers


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## WraithX959 (Apr 16, 2014)

Kishido said:


> So wait... Kaguya's Sharingan looked exactly like this and was a Sharingan... Now Sasuke has this eye and it is a Rinnegan... But Madara has a different eye and it is still a Rinnegan



The eyes are also colored differently as well. Rikidou's Rinnegan is gray/purple, but he also had a third one that was red. Kaguya's Rinnegan is red with nine tomoe and was her third eye, it's exactly the same as the Juubi's original eye. This is why I like to call it the Sharinnegan.


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 16, 2014)

WraithX959 said:


> The eyes are also colored differently as well. Rikidou's Rinnegan is gray/purple, but he also had a third one that was red. Kaguya's Rinnegan is red with nine tomoe and was her third eye, it's exactly the same as the Juubi's original eye. This is why I like to call it the Sharinnegan.



That's why I think the rinnegan Madara possessed was merely a diluted version of Kaguya's eye as that was the doujutsu that seemed to be the pinnacle with it having 9 tomoes and it being red.


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## Gilgamesh (Apr 16, 2014)

The Rinnegan on RS's head is a tattoo isn't it?


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

Just as much as the eye on Kaguya's forehead is a tattoo.


----------



## Nathan Copeland (Apr 16, 2014)

it looks tacky kishi should if just gave sasuke the pain rinnegan


----------



## MisterJB (Apr 16, 2014)

How was the Sage capable of granting Sasuke this "True" Rinnegan if he himself only has the regular one?


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## Nathan Copeland (Apr 16, 2014)

MisterJB said:


> How was the Sage capable of granting Sasuke this "True" Rinnegan if he himself only has the regular one?



Hashirama Cells + Indra Awakened Spirit :


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

I want a more detailed explanation too.

What I do know is that Sasuke has the most powerful doujutsu in all the series right now.


----------



## MisterJB (Apr 16, 2014)

Nathan Copeland said:


> Hashirama Cells + Indra Awakened Spirit :



But the Sage is the source of Hashirama's cells; he is the ultimate combination of the Senju and the Uchiha since they stem from him in the first place; and why would Indra, who is supposed to have the watered down version of his father's eyes, be a determinant factor at all?

I know you're not being entirely serious but this makes no sense. If anyone should have the "True" Rinnegan, it would be the Juubi Jinchuuriki.


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## Clairehime (Apr 16, 2014)

This is the secret:



Abandon their logical failures, and follow the truth!


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 16, 2014)

MisterJB said:


> But the Sage is the source of Hashirama's cells; he is the ultimate combination of the Senju and the Uchiha since they stem from him in the first place; and why would Indra, who is supposed to have the watered down version of his father's eyes, be a determinant factor at all?
> 
> I know you're not being entirely serious but this makes no sense. If anyone should have the "True" Rinnegan, it would be the Juubi Jinchuuriki.



Juugo's cells may have something to do with it.


----------



## Marsala (Apr 16, 2014)

Sasuke has eyes beyond those of Hagoromo, Indra, or Madara. Why, you ask? Isn't it obvious?


----------



## Tony Lou (Apr 16, 2014)

Lord Itachi, praise be.


----------



## Addy (Apr 16, 2014)

it looks like a sharingan


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## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

Clairehime said:


> This is the secret:
> 
> 
> 
> Abandon their logical failures, and follow the truth!



This makes perfect sense.


----------



## CyberianGinseng (Apr 16, 2014)

MisterJB said:


> How was the Sage capable of granting Sasuke this "True" Rinnegan if he himself only has the regular one?


Great question.

To answer, I'll ask another question.

Who is that guy behind Rikudou?I'll give you a hint; he ain't Hagoromo.

The only problem I had  besides general disappointment that we won't get to see the spiraligan is it's only in one eye.

So retarded. 

The eyes already represent yin. Naruto got his eye change and body change not just on one half of his ass. Why in hell would Sasuke get an eye upgrade just on one half of his peepers? It makes absolutely no sense.

Kishi making stupid "artistic" choices again.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> That was contextually referring to Yin and Yang.



Sure it was.



BlinkST said:


> He was referring to that eye when discussing MT, and he didn't call it a "Rinnegan" either, unlike what _Madara_ is doing now. It boils down to whether or not you think Hagoromo was describing the power obtained by the eye or the eye by itself.



Ocular genjutsu is a power the Sharingan possess. You know, a power of the eye when Yang is removed from the OG Rinnegan.

But point is, Hagoromo didn't name it at all. 




BlinkST said:


> He still has the frog eyes.



He doesn't have a doujutsu.



BlinkST said:


> 1] Other way around; it's at the top.




Oh right - silly me, I don' goofed. Instead, let's just say it's all the way to the left on the progression chart, with the Rinnegan all the way to the right.

It's the final progression of the Sharingan, after all.


*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				takL said:
			
		

> Kabuto"Sure enough, just as speculated…" "Where sharingan ends up is…(/the last stop/terminal for sharingan is…)" "rinnegan, after all...."



[SIZE=+2]GG[/SIZE]








BlinkST said:


> 2] None of that applies to Kaguya's third eye.



Kaguya was stronger than Hagoromo because she possessed the chakra power of the Shinju, which is apparently greater than the chakra power of the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

Regardless, that eye's genjutsu is just a normal Sharingan genjutsu.


And a power of the Rinnegan.





BlinkST said:


> Zero sense to someone doing some critical thinking. Serious discussion, here, folks.



Ironically coming from someone bearing that sig you have, and calling my Rinnegan an OG Sharingan.

But you know what? I'll play along and await for takL.


----------



## vered (Apr 16, 2014)

CyberianGinseng said:


> Great question.
> 
> To answer, I'll ask another question.
> 
> ...



actually i think It's a representation of Kannon behind him.
a symbolic representation behind Hagoromo.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Apr 16, 2014)

Nathan Copeland said:


> it looks tacky kishi should if just gave sasuke the pain rinnegan


----------



## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

care to elaborate on that raging boner?

XD


----------



## lathia (Apr 16, 2014)

Use a comma Jacamo, you sound thirsty as fuck!

So what did Hagaromo called Sharingan? The tomoe only? So Rinnegan overlapped with Sharingan?


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 16, 2014)

Tengu said:


> Juubi's Eye = Rinnegan=Itachi's left eye


And that's the Tsukiyomi eye.


BlinkST said:


> Unless MP goofed on their trans. It makes zero sense for Hagoromo's "Rinnegan" to be purple and lack tomoe, and Sasuke's to resemble the Shinju's/ Kaguya's eye [Which Hagoromo called the Sharingan].



The color difference is the thing that bothers me the most. I can only assume that it is a direct result of the different ways of acquiring it. I assume Kaguya got her OG Rinnegan in her forehead after eating the fruit. 

Hagoromo was born with a Standard Rinnegan as a result of receiving her chakra as a child in the womb. It somehow purified the red from the chakra.



Klue said:


> Hagoromo didn't call it the Sharingan. He said it possess the Sharingan's power.
> 
> Lacking tomoe could be its initial stage, comparable to the regular Sharingan which lacks the concentric circles.
> 
> ...



If there actually is a Golden Byakugan 

Maybe the red represents the will of the Jubi...and now when we say the will of the Jubi, we mean Kaguya's will. The Curse of Hatred, Indra all had her maliciousness to them. The will to oppress and destroy one's enemies. Makes you wonder if she lost something important. (_I can see it now, people complaining that Kaguya went bad because she lost her husband and started down that path of revenge, but the power consumed her.  Totally illogical of course as with her power as Naruto so aptly demonstrated killing someone important to her would be impossible. With the power of the Rinnegan she could outright resurrect anyone._)

Regardless for Madara and Nagato who had the Rinnegan but without her power i.e. the Jubi, they wouldn't inherit the full measure of her will, but instead they would gain Hagoromo's.

The issue is Sasuke gaining a Red Rinnegan. Perhaps his own will is dark enough to keep it red. Color Page next chapter Kishi.

Still not complete....



Harbour said:


> Where is another True Rinnegan Eye???
> The second half of Juubi sleeps somewhere.


The Viz translation apparently says it was all sealed into Hagoromo.


Gilgamesh said:


> The Rinnegan on RS's head is a tattoo isn't it?


No it's not. That is another eye.


MisterJB said:


> How was the Sage capable of granting Sasuke this "True" Rinnegan if he himself only has the regular one?


That is definitely a break for me too.


Nathan Copeland said:


> Hashirama Cells + Indra Awakened Spirit :


Which are both derivative of Hagoromo and cannot surpass his power.


Clairehime said:


> This is the secret:
> 
> 
> 
> Abandon their logical failures, and follow the truth!


I'm actually thinking of something along those lines.


CyberianGinseng said:


> Great question.
> 
> To answer, I'll ask another question.
> 
> ...



I think you're *completely wrong*. The guy behind Hagoromo is Hagoromo, just like the guy behind Itachi in his my new light speech was Itachi. 

"_Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter_"~ Yoda

The reason that Sasuke only has one eye, is because the Jubi is a Cyclops. No one has had two OG Rinnegan. Not even Kaguya.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners said:


> Wanting the brother's to cooperate does not negate him not wanting the two chakra to exist in one body. The tablet offers the alternative to what Madara is doing now, the two forces existing separate of one another ( Naruto and Sasuke right now). Sasuke having both forces would not be the alternative Hagaromo proposed.



You're basically saying, Hagoromo doesn't want one to have both powers, because he doesn't want one to have both powers.

Hagoromo brings clarification over the next few pages.



Gunners said:


> I was under the impression that the transmigration ended when the two chakra successfully merged.



Not what it says.



Gunners said:


> You are also making a claim, that you have not provided sufficient evidence to back. You are making the claim that Sasuke's Rinnegan adheres to the same principles as the ones to date. There's a significant difference in the eyes appearance, we don't know what caused the eye to awake, and we have Madara (fallible) referring to Sasuke's eyes as a Rinnegan.



My claim is consistent with what is known thus far. There could be an extra ingredient Rikudou slipped in, who knows; regardless, it's still a Rinnegan (Six Path power) which requires both parts.



Gunners said:


> Because there isn't a level exceeding EMS... wait a minute there is. The dispute is over whether it was caused by an increase in Yin or the addition of Yang.



That level beyond EMS is reached when both chakras are mixed, which opens/reveals Rikudou's chakra. More Yin isn't Rikudou chakra or Six Paths power. Again, providing evidence is your burden, not mine.

First it's: "Sasuke won't obtain the Rinnegan."

Now it's: "Yin Rinnegan."





And it's not as if Naruto is working with Yang power only. He has nature and Bijuu power. What's wrong with the sauce getting a little Yang?


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 16, 2014)

Hmm, guess it's gonna be a red-colored Rin'negan then as it was shown in volume 64's cover.

This also makes Evil's spoiler have sense: she posted on the left that Rin'negan with 9 tomoes and in the right Sasuke's EMS, which was proven right in this chapter's panel.

He must still have his own EMS in his right eye. Wonder how things are gonna go from this point forward.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Sennin of Hardwork said:


> Hmm, guess it's gonna be a red-colored Rin'negan then as it was shown in volume 64's cover.
> 
> This also makes Evil's spoiler have sense: she posted on the left that Rin'negan with 9 tomoes and in the right Sasuke's EMS, which was proven right in this chapter's panel.
> 
> He must still have his own EMS in his right eye. Wonder how things are gonna go from this point forward.



I believe she was trying to point out that only a single EMS transformed into the Juubi's eye (Rinnegan).


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> I believe she was trying to point out that only a single EMS transformed into the Juubi's eye (Rinnegan).





How are you getting the Juubi's eye as Rinnegan? When we've never seen what it does, besides knowing its useful for Mugen Tsukuyomi


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> How are you getting the Juubi's eye as Rinnegan? When we've never seen what it does, besides knowing its useful for Mugen Tsukuyomi



Two translations called it Rinnegan. I don't need anything else at this time. 

And Sharingan's final stop is Rinnegan. Stated by Kabuto, Madara didn't disagree.

Guess he was right, huh?


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> How are you getting the Juubi's eye as Rinnegan? When we've never seen what it does, besides knowing its useful for Mugen Tsukuyomi



*Spoiler*: __


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

Then why does it have commas? Is he referring to the multiple circles or is he talking about the whole thing entirely.  If he had Rinnegan why aren't the eyes just plain


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Then why does it have commas? Is he referring to the multiple circles or is he talking about the whole thing entirely.  If he had Rinnegan why aren't the eyes just plain



Because this is another version of the Rinnegan, or its true form. Just like we can still call the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, a Mangekyou Sharingan.

Unbelievable.

He calls it a Rinnegan and people still deny it.


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Because this is another version of the Rinnegan, or its true form. Just like we can still call the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, a Mangekyou Sharingan.




Sasuke's eye is the original eye, the first one. So how is the Rinnegan, which came after a version of Sasuke's eye?

Correct me if I'm wrong but thats like saying my dad is a version of me.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Sasuke's eye is the original eye, the first one. So how is the Rinnegan, which came after a version of Sasuke's eye?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but thats like saying my dad is a version of me.



And that original eye is a Rinnegan. 

Not sure why it loses tomoe, but if you remove half of its chakra power, what happens?

Not sure what's so confusing to you?


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> And that original eye is a Rinnegan.
> 
> Not sure why it loses tomoe, but if you remove half of its chakra power, what happens?





Again, how is Lady Kaguya's eye labeled as a Rinnegan? What makes it a Rinnegan? I don't know what happens if you remove its power, all I know is that the Holy Tree has this eye and somehow after consuming the fruit Lady Kaguya got this eye. It was never called a Rinnegan then, but suddenly is being called a Rinnegan now.

It can't be a Rinnegan just cuz you say so. It is either a combination of both eyes (something entirely new) or something different. If it is a combination of both, then it isn't a Rinnegan, it just shares powers of the Rinnegan.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

theyre the same shit. madara even says " I have your powers"


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> I believe she was trying to point out that only a single EMS transformed into the Juubi's eye (Rinnegan).



Yes, basically. 

EMS on his right eye, Rin'negan on the left one.


----------



## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Apr 16, 2014)

this creates alot of questions here

but fuck it. sasuke has a 9 tomoe rinnegan im cool with dat  i just can't wait to see what it does


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

It's like saying I'm my fathers son without counting my mother. While that statement is true, I'm not just "Rinnegan" I'm two halves of something put together, I'm something entirely different. I just share traits of both.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Rick Muthafkn Martin said:


> this creates alot of questions here
> 
> but fuck it. sasuke has a 9 tomoe rinnegan im cool with dat  i just can't wait to see what it does



your seeing what it does through nagato, obito and madara

its called "rinnegan"


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Again, how is Lady Kaguya's eye labeled as a Rinnegan? What makes it a Rinnegan?



How?

Do to the single instance where it was labeled at all, it was called a Rinnegan.

What do you mean how?



Daniel Cunnings said:


> I don't know what happens if you remove its power, all I know is that the Holy Tree has this eye and somehow after consuming the fruit Lady Kaguya got this eye. It was never called a Rinnegan then, but suddenly is being called a Rinnegan now.



It wasn't called anything then, but its called a Rinnegan now.

Gotta learn to deal.





Daniel Cunnings said:


> It can't be a Rinnegan just cuz you say so.



Madara said so, not me.

WTF am I reading?



Daniel Cunnings said:


> It is either a combination of both eyes (something entirely new) or something different. If it is a combination of both, then it isn't a Rinnegan, it just shares powers of the Rinnegan.



The Sharingan's final stop / terminal is the Rinnegan itself. In other words, it's no longer called a Sharingan once Hagoromo's chakra appears.


*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				takL said:
			
		

> Kabuto"Sure enough, just as speculated…" "Where sharingan ends up is…(/the last stop/terminal for sharingan is…)" "rinnegan, after all...."






Anything after that is Rinnegan.

Not rocket science, seriously.


----------



## Daniel Cunnings (Apr 16, 2014)

I feel like that's backwards genetics.


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> theyre the same shit. madara even says " I have your powers"



Itsn't not. 


Then this


We can conclude that Madara basically was half Hagoromo, and still half Kaguya now.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

those have nothing to do with doujutsu. he's talking about the shinjuu power only

and you're too hung up on the pretty pictures that your ignoring the text


----------



## Sniffers (Apr 16, 2014)

Oh gawd it looks aweful. 

Well, always figured it was either a Sharingan or a Sharinnegan, but apparantly it is just a Rinnegan. Honestly though, since the Sharingan and Rinnegan became intertwined the discussion of its original name made little sense to me anyway.

Didn't expect Sasuke to obtain the 9-tomoe "Rinnegan" in his regular eye(s) though. That shit looks terrible. The higher the level of the eyes, the uglier they get IMO.​


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> those have nothing to do with doujutsu. he's talking about the shinjuu power only
> 
> and you're too hung up on the pretty pictures that your ignoring the text



Trying to come around, I see. Madara's power is not same as Sasuke and Naruto combined. It will be proved soon


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Sniffers said:


> Oh gawd it looks aweful.
> 
> Well, always figured it was either a Sharingan or a Sharinnegan, but apparantly it is just a Rinnegan. Honestly though, since the Sharingan and Rinnegan became intertwined the discussion of its origin made little sense to me anyway. Everyone was correct...
> 
> Didn't expect Sasuke to obtain the 9-tomoe "Rinnegan" in his regular eye(s) though. That shit looks terrible. The higher the level of the eyes, the uglier they get IMO.​



it looks messy as fuck. i wonder how it will look from a distance


----------



## Alexdhamp (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Sasuke's eye is the original eye, the first one. So how is the Rinnegan, which came after a version of Sasuke's eye?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but thats like saying my dad is a version of me.



Because Hagoromo's Rinnegan was a different version of his mother's. Perhaps a diluted form. Damn, this _should_ be obvious.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Trying to come around, I see. Madara's power is not same as Sasuke and Naruto combined. It will be proved soon



if we're gona ignore the text and be blissed by pretty pictures, then i have nothing more to say to u


----------



## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

Sasuke will still have Sharingan powers 

therefore it is not the Rinnegan as we know it


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> if we're gona ignore the text and be blissed by pretty pictures, then i have nothing more to say to u



Grrr... What is your answer for this panel?!


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Grrr... What is your answer for this panel?!


Don't you see? Madara already has the Rinnegan, which Sasuke has also! So? Now Madara wants to get the Shinju's fruit, so he can get... 

The Rinnegan! The same one Sasuke has!


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Grrr... What is your answer for this panel?!



the answer is madara wants to wipe all chakra and form the shinjuu's fruit via tsukuyomi, thus making him as powerful as kaguya

o_o


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Don't you see? Madara already has the Rinnegan, which Sasuke has also! So? Now Madara wants to get the Shinju's fruit, so he can get...
> 
> The Rinnegan! The same one Sasuke has!



Same, my ass


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> the answer is madara wants to wipe all chakra and form the shinjuu's fruit via tsukuyomi, thus making him as powerful as kaguya
> 
> o_o



As long you admit that Madara never was Hagoromo's level and being used by Kaguya, so sure.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

jacamo said:


> Sasuke will still have Sharingan powers
> 
> therefore it is not the Rinnegan as we know it



Madara's Rinnegan used two Sharingan abilities:

[1] _Was able to follow A's top speed._
[2] _Saw through Naruto's Shadow Clone Technique, just as his EMS saw through Hashirama's Wood Clone._​


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

again you're not readingg....


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> again you're not readingg....



I'm reading very well, you wrote this:


T-Bag said:


> theyre the same shit. madara even says " I have your powers"


----------



## ? (Apr 16, 2014)

It's the Mangekyo Rinnegan.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> I'm reading very well, you wrote this:



im quoting madara. and if madara is telling you he has sasuke's eye powers then he has his eye powers. 

you're saying NO HE DOESNT. what do you want me to tell you?


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> im quoting madara. and if madara is telling you he has sasuke's eye powers then he has his eye powers.
> 
> you're saying NO HE DOESNT. what do you want me to tell you?



Ok but they aren't "same shit". You'll see soon.


----------



## Jagger (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Same, my ass


The possibilities of the Rinnegan possessing different stages is quite likely at this point. After all, Hagoromo possessed the Rinnegan (according to what is written in the Tablet) and he never seemed to contradict that at any point of his story.

Well, it doesn't make sense either like Blink said. Why Hagoromo doesn't have the same Rinnegan Sasuke has?


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

Jagger said:


> The possibilities of the Rinnegan possessing different stages is quite likely at this point. After all, Hagoromo possessed the Rinnegan (according to what is written in the Tablet) and he never seemed to contradict that at any point of his story.
> 
> Well, it doesn't make sense either like Blink said. Why Hagoromo doesn't have the same Rinnegan Sasuke has?



Hagoromo gave his Rinnegan to Sasuke. So now it's Sharingan + Rinnegan.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Ok but they aren't "same shit". You'll see soon.



there is nothing for me to see soon, it's already been explained what that eye is so ppl wouldnt get confused.


----------



## Amatérasu’s Son (Apr 16, 2014)

Daniel Cunnings said:


> Again, how is Lady Kaguya's eye labeled as a Rinnegan? What makes it a Rinnegan? I don't know what happens if you remove its power, all I know is that the Holy Tree has this eye and somehow after consuming the fruit Lady Kaguya got this eye. It was never called a Rinnegan then, but suddenly is being called a Rinnegan now.
> 
> It can't be a Rinnegan just cuz you say so. It is either a combination of both eyes (something entirely new) or something different. If it is a combination of both, then it isn't a Rinnegan, it just shares powers of the Rinnegan.



What makes an eye a Rinnegan visually is the three rings, the Ripple Pattern. All things that have been called a Rinnegan have three rings around a central pupil with the exception of the incomplete jubi's eye which was missing one ring and three tomoe. 

The name Rinnegan is mere nomenclature. It likely derived its named from Hagoromo himself. The Sage of the Six Paths possessed an Eye of the Cycle of Reincarnation. With Kaguya it was likely called the Goddess' eye with no further investigation. It was said that Hagoromo was the first to discover the secrets behind what we call today ninjutsu. Kaguya had all of the power, but it appears that Hagoromo figured out how these things worked and interacted, how they could be classified, an Einstein of Ninjutsu.

But what the Rinnegan is, is essentially any dojutsu that is derived from and resembles the Jubi's original eye. Sasuke's eye which is somehow a perfect recreation of the Original Jubi's three ring and nine tomoe eye is a Rinnegan. In fact it is a perfect apparently undiluted Rinnegan.

In the land of the living Madara has the most information on these things, he literally read Hagoromo's book. If he says that Sasuke's eye has evolved into a Rinnegan then I'll take his word for it til contradicting evidence is presented.



Daniel Cunnings said:


> I feel like that's backwards genetics.


I feel that it's genetic engineering.

Hagoromo is clearly aware of genetics and has the power to do whatever he wants including divide a massive god like life form into nine slightly lesser god like life forms.

Specifically splitting his genes up between his two children isn't even remotely farfetched. After seeing what his mother was capable of with her power I imagine that he didn't want to take a risk that his children would use his power as she would, so he divided it.


Sniffers said:


> Oh gawd it looks aweful.
> 
> Well, always figured it was either a Sharingan or a Sharinnegan, but apparantly it is just a Rinnegan. Honestly though, since the Sharingan and Rinnegan became intertwined the discussion of its original name made little sense to me anyway.
> 
> Didn't expect Sasuke to obtain the 9-tomoe "Rinnegan" in his regular eye(s) though. That shit looks terrible. The higher the level of the eyes, the uglier they get IMO.​


I'm trying to figure it out. Sharinnegan would mean Copy Wheel Eye. Rinnegan means Samsara eye.

The Sha means copy. The Rin means the exact same thing, Wheel. The Ne means circle around or return. Rinne meaning Go Around the Circle, the circle of reincarnation.

So Sharinnegan would mean Copy Circle Around Eye. Or basically reincarnate and do the same damn thing.

I don't think it looks awful, even in red, it seems to be the ultimate Sharingan, going back to basics if you will, which is appropriate for Sasuke.



Mateush said:


> Grrr... What is your answer for this panel?!



What is your question?


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Mateush said:


> Hagoromo gave his Rinnegan to Sasuke. So now it's Sharingan + Rinnegan.


He fucked up Sasuke's Sharingan, then.


----------



## Clairehime (Apr 16, 2014)

Ignored the speech of Hagoromo, one who lived and saw, to considered the speech of Madara, one who only knows what he had on board Uchiha, sounds like lunacy. If the "Sharingan" is a translation mistake could even be. But just watch the speech of Madara about the power of Naruto: Just Hagoromo's sennin mode? And the Tailed Beasts? The Hagoromo's Sennin Mode are the Tailed Beasts?  

"Seriously Madara that you only see that? You don't know than half!"

The Madara's failures began. Kaguya, come quickly, and save the fight!.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> He fucked up Sasuke's Sharingan, then.



Or he gave him an even better Rinnegan.


----------



## Mateush (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> He fucked up Sasuke's Sharingan, then.



Nope. Just close to the original dojutsu as Shinju had.

The beginning


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Well, it doesn't make sense either like Blink said. Why Hagoromo doesn't have the same Rinnegan Sasuke has?



Maybe he can transform into that state, no differently than an Uchiha can transform there eyes from Sharingan to Mangekyou.



The simple fact that Hagoromo literally gave Sasuke this ocular power, indicates what?


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Maybe he can transform into that state, no differently than an Uchiha can transform there eyes from Sharingan to Mangekyou.
> 
> 
> 
> *The simple fact that Hagoromo literally gave Sasuke this ocular power, indicates what?*



Bingo.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

ST won't be happy about this. But better me than the opposition.:ignoramus 



Mateush said:


> Nope. Just close to the original dojutsu as Shinju had.
> 
> The beginning


 Original? King of gods confirmed.:ignoramus 

I can list you a number of reasons why that adds up.


----------



## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Madara's Rinnegan used two Sharingan abilities:
> 
> [1] _Was able to follow A's top speed._
> [2] _Saw through Naruto's Shadow Clone Technique, just as his EMS saw through Hashirama's Wood Clone._​


----------



## Jagger (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Maybe he can transform into that state, no differently than an Uchiha can transform there eyes from Sharingan to Mangekyou.
> 
> 
> 
> The simple fact that Hagoromo literally gave Sasuke this ocular power, indicates what?


He should have, at least, mention the difference between Madara's Rinnegan and his own?  It couldn't have killed him.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> ST won't be happy about this. But better me than the opposition.:ignoramus




Good, good.

Now color it red. 


Confused...

Am I wrong?



Jagger said:


> He should have, at least, mention the difference between Madara's Rinnegan and his own?  It couldn't have killed him.



Differences will be noted in time.


----------



## Sniffers (Apr 16, 2014)

Amat?rasu?s Son said:


> I'm trying to figure it out. Sharinnegan would mean Copy Wheel Eye. Rinnegan means Samsara eye.
> 
> The Sha means copy. The Rin means the exact same thing, Wheel. The Ne means circle around or return. Rinne meaning Go Around the Circle, the circle of reincarnation.
> 
> ...


Well, what I meant is that I thought the Jubi's eye was a combination of the Rinnegan and Sharingan. It still is, because the Sharingan and Rinnegan are closely related, but the name is just "_Rinnegan_" and not a "_combination of both doujutsu_" or something.

The eye looks messy to me. At the very least I hope Sasuke has developed the Rinnegan in both eyes. Just one looks very incomplete.. though Sasuke's power up just might be...​


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Good, good.
> 
> Now color it red.




If ST asks, this was your idea.


----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

red looks terrible


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)




----------



## T-Bag (Apr 16, 2014)

. the purple suited him much better, but it could be the lighting/contrast


----------



## 青月光 (Apr 16, 2014)

Gunners made some very good observations.

RS disapproves of Yin and Yang in one body, so it would make sense that what Sasuke has is not a Rinnegan, or at least, the Rinnegan we are used to see. Moreover, Sasuke should have the tomeless Rinnegan in the other eye if he indeed received Yang chakra.

So maybe, and just maybe, it?s something like this:

EMS(Yin) + Yang chakra= Rinnegan

and

EMS (Yin) + more Yin chakra= Juubi/Kaguya?s eye

EDIT: Another thing, and this is just a maybe again. How did RS gave Sasuke an eye he doesn?t have? RS is a mix of Yin and Yang, while Sasuke is only Yin, and pumping more Yin in one?s eye intead of Yang, makes the eye evolve in Juubi/Kaguya?s eye instead of the tomeless Rinnegan.


----------



## RAGING BONER (Apr 16, 2014)

this'll never end...


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> red looks terrible



I agree, it looks awful.


----------



## 青月光 (Apr 16, 2014)

RS?s Rinnegan might really be a mutation, something very unique to him.

Considering eye power is Yin-based, I?ll go with something like this:

"Normal" eyes+ "Unique chakra" (Yin chakra)= Sharingan (3 tomoes, 1 ring)

Sharingan+ "Unique chakra" (Yin chakra, same source)= Mangekyou Sharingan

MS+ "Unique chakra" (Yin chakra, different source)= Eien no Mangekyou Sharingan (6 tomoes)

EMS+ a lot of Yin Chakra (another different source)= Juubi/ Kaguya?s eye (9 tomoes, 3 rings) or "Rinnegan" with tomoes.

And the mutation:

EMS+ Yang chakra= Tomoeless Rinnegan (RS?s eyes).

This should be pretty accurate.


----------



## Jesus (Apr 16, 2014)

T-Bag said:


> red looks terrible



Agreed, the entire eye being red just looks weird, especially when put right next to the usual sharingan. I'd rather it be purple.


----------



## IpHr0z3nI (Apr 16, 2014)

"Out on bail fresh out out of jail............."

It's rather obvious why Sasuke was this given variation of the Rinnegan:

A. It would allow him to keep his red and black theme...
B. The traditional Rinnegan has demonstrated next to nothing in the genjutsu department.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

IpHr0z3nI said:


> "Out on bail fresh out out of jail............."
> 
> It's rather obvious why Sasuke was this given variation of the Rinnegan:
> 
> ...



C. None of the above.

The real answer is: _"It's the easiest way to show the reader that he surpassed Madara."_


*Spoiler*: __ 



​



In other words, his ocular power is better.


----------



## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Confused...
> 
> Am I wrong?




i swear to god though, if Sasuke shows us anything new or unique there is no way im calling it the Rinnegan... it has the tomes... its the Juubi eye... Kaguya is the only person to have ever had it

i will cling to it like the Tobi Identity threads


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

jacamo said:


> i swear to god though, if Sasuke shows us anything new or unique there is no way im calling it the Rinnegan... it has the tomes... its the Juubi eye... Kaguya is the only person to have ever had it
> 
> i will cling to it like the Tobi Identity threads



If it reveals powers the Rinnegan doesn't have, you won't call it a Rinnegan?



I think we should expect to see new distinct jutsu(s) from it.



Distinct Jutsu(s).


----------



## UltimateDeadpool (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> He didn't call it a Sharingan:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __





vered said:


> He didn't call the eye a sharingan, he said that Kaguya  used Byakugan's and Sharingan's powers.
> This chapter is the first time the eye actually gets a name and it's exactly like how many of us predicted for a long time.



You guys have to consider the implications.

1. At the time, there was only one eye; the Rinnegan. 

2. It devolved into the Sharingan. 

3. How can the Rinnegan have the power of something that didn't yet exist? 

4. Why was the power relegated to the Sharingan if it's the Rinnegan's inherent power?


----------



## jacamo (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> If it reveals powers the Rinnegan doesn't have, you won't call it a Rinnegan?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well... Sasuke could just call it the Rinnegan himself 

or Kishi could just be lazy and have him use a Rinnegan jutsu



Edit: but yes that is exactly what i will do and call it the Sharinnegan


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

UltimateDeadpool said:


> You guys have to consider the implications.
> 
> 1. At the time, there was only one eye; the Rinnegan.
> 
> ...



The Sharingan exist now, and the reader (as well as Naruto) best associates ocular genjutsu with what eye?

There is a reason why he didn't simply say that Kaguya possessed Byakugan and Sharingan. He explicitly stated that she possessed one eye, but only noted  the power of the other.

Why would he do that?

Umm, because its a Rinnegan. 


Besides, Kishi plays with his wording all of the time:
*** _Like, Uchiha + Senju = Rinnegan. Umm, technically, you need Indra's and Asura's chakras, but they transmigrate into the Uchiha and Senju clans, so therefore, it's sorta true._​
*** _Kill closest bud to awaken Mangekyou. Umm, actually, it's watch your closest friend die, but I guess killing them ensures the requirement is met._​


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> The Sharingan exist now, and the reader (as well as Naruto) best associates ocular genjutsu with what eye?


Why mislead people when he could just say it's a Rinnegan? And why is the splitting of that eye called the purple Rinnegan and Sharingan, and the coming together again called the Rinnegan?



Klue said:


> There is a reason why he didn't simply say that Kaguya possessed Byakugan and Sharingan. *He explicitly stated that she possessed one eye, but only noted  the power of the other. *


He uses the "power" wording for both eyes.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Why mislead people when he could just say it's a Rinnegan?



Because that's how Kishi is. He always misleads the reader, by generalizing, skipping over details, before laying out all of the parts.

Rinnegan = Uchiha + Senju? Well, it's true, but technically....

Mangekyou is awakened by the death of your closest friend? Well, technically, you only need to see someone close to you die.

It's how Kishi is. 



BlinkST said:


> And why is the splitting of that eye called the purple Rinnegan and Sharingan, and the coming together again called the Rinnegan?



The splitting of "this" eye?

I think the difference between "this" Rinnegan and the Rinnegan that we're use to is unclear. It's the Rinnegan which loses Yang power and becomes the Sharingan.




BlinkST said:


> He uses the "power" wording for both eyes.



Actually, you're right. My mistake.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Because that's how Kishi is. He always misleads the reader, by generalizing, skipping over details, before laying out all of the parts.
> 
> Rinnegan = Uchiha + Senju? Well, it's true, but technically....
> 
> ...


I seriously hope you're not buying what Madara said wholesale.  



Klue said:


> The splitting of "this" eye?
> 
> I think the difference between "this" Rinnegan and the Rinnegan that we're use to is unclear. It's the Rinnegan which loses Yang power and becomes the Sharingan.


Kaguya wasn't said to have the Rinnegan or the 6 paths; her son was. I'm not sure how you're coming up with the "Yang theory" when three other people with Yoton powers didn't get this eye.  



Klue said:


> Actually, you're right. My mistake.


So if we play indecisive games with that, he's also not "saying" she has a Byakugan, right?


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> I seriously hope you're not buying what Madara said wholesale.



I have no reason not to. In fact, I'm in a much safer position than you were two weeks ago.

:ignoramus



BlinkST said:


> Kaguya wasn't said to have the Rinnegan or the 6 paths; her son was.



Lol, so?



BlinkST said:


> I'm not sure how you're coming up with the "Yang theory" when three other people with Yoton powers didn't get this eye.



It's not a theory. Sharingan becomes Rinnegan when both powers are combined. 

Danzou nor Obito possessed Indra's chakra, or the EMS.

Just pool the information together.




BlinkST said:


> So if we play indecisive games with that, he's also not "saying" she has a Byakugan, right?



Should I? 

When I can literally see the Byakugan, right there?

The Juubi's eye was unlabeled until this very chapter. 

Something isn't right about your approach from two weeks ago, compared to how you're moving about now.

**side eye**


----------



## Nuuskis (Apr 16, 2014)

Sasuke's Rinnegan is the same as with Kaguya so it's most likely some other form of Rinnegan.

Kaguya had the "Sharinnegan" -> Rikudou Sage normal Rinnegan -> Older Brother only Sharingan and so on.

But how come Sasuke's other eye didn't transform? 

And why did Sasuke got the "Sharinnegan" instead of normal Rinnegan, when it was Rikudou Sage who gave him powers. It's Madara who should have "Sharinnegan" since he absorbed the tree and Juubi.


----------



## ch1p (Apr 16, 2014)

I can't read 13 pages of drivel. Has the raw been inspected?


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

ch1p said:


> I can't read 13 pages of drivel. Has the raw been inspected?



Raw will be made available on Friday.

Though, someone could ask Evil....


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> I have no reason not to. In fact, I'm in a much safer position than you were two weeks ago.
> 
> :ignoramus


You sure are. 



Klue said:


> Lol, so?


Serious discussion here, folks.  



Klue said:


> It's not a theory. Sharingan becomes Rinnegan when both powers are combined.
> 
> Danzou nor Obito possessed Indra's chakra, or the EMS.


I'm talking about Madara, Obito, and Hagoromo, all of whom had Yin-Yang powers thanks to the 10 tails.  



Klue said:


> *Should I?
> 
> When I can literally see the Byakugan, right there? *


You trying to have it _both ways_.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Serious discussion here, folks.



Explain the significance to me?

And it's funny, because I believe two weeks ago I argued that this eye could potentially have Rinnegan powers, amongst other things - confirming Sharingan powers specifically does not exclude other abilities.

Regardless, it's not pretty obvious that I was right, huh?




BlinkST said:


> I'm talking about Madara, Obito, and Hagoromo, all of whom had Yin-Yang powers thanks to the 10 tails.



I clearly made a distinction between "this eye" and what we consider to be the "classic" Rinnegan. Rip Yang power from the "classic" Rinnegan and it becomes a Sharingan.

Is that not true? 

Why Madara does not have this eye, why Hagoromo doesn't have it (apparently) remains unknown to me. 




BlinkST said:


> You trying to have it _both ways_.



Not trying to have it both ways. The Hyuuga's eyes have a name, we have known it for years - we can clearly see that she has two eyes which look identical to the Byukugan. 

Can you say the same about the Juubi's Eye prior to this week?

No.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Explain the significance to me?


You already read my thread concerning the differences between the ocular jutsu.  



Klue said:


> I clearly made a distinction between "this eye" and what we consider to be the "classic" Rinnegan. Rip Yang power from the "classic" Rinnegan and it becomes a Sharingan.
> 
> Is that not true?


No, since the Sage did not have "Sharingan" powers, and Obito and Madara didn't get this eye when they got Yin-Yang powers.  



Klue said:


> Not trying to have it both ways. The Hyuuga's eyes have a name, we have known it for years - we can clearly see that she has two eyes which look identical to the Byukugan.


Yeah, so he means it _literally_ when she has the "power" of the Byakugan, and _figuratively_ when she has the "power" of the Sharingan. This is not the definition of trying to have it _both ways_, folks.  



Klue said:


> Can you say the same about the Juubi's Eye prior to this week?
> 
> No.


I can, I have, and I'll continue to.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 16, 2014)

I doubt that the Sasuke new eye be a Rinnegan. I'd rather wait for a confirmation. Maybe Madara erroneously thinks it's a Rinnegan and is not.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> You already read my thread concerning the differences between the ocular jutsu.



Yeah, let's leave this one alone. 




BlinkST said:


> No, since the Sage did not have "Sharingan" powers, and Obito and Madara didn't get this eye when they got Yin-Yang powers.



Again, I made a distinction between two Rinnegans. The tomoe-less version is acquired when both powers are united. Obito didn't have Indra power or the EMS.

But no, Hagoromo doesn't have Sharingan powers. Just Uchiha powers, whatever they are.




BlinkST said:


> Yeah, so he means it _literally_ when she has the "power" of the Byakugan, and _figuratively_ when she has the "power" of the Sharingan. This is not the definition of trying to have it _both ways_, folks.



Lol okay, I'll play along.

Her two eyes aren't Byakugan, and her third isn't a Sharingan.


It's a Rinnegan.
 




BlinkST said:


> I can, I have, and I'll continue to.



Enjoy yourself.


----------



## HoriMaori (Apr 16, 2014)

So Sasuke must be able to use his MS/EMS jutsu in addition to the Rinnegan jutsu, unlike Obito who couldn't (or wouldn't) use Kamui while he had Rinnegan and a Sharingan and the Bijuu and the Mazou.

Madara could though. So much for not being able to use Rinbo Hengoku as Juubi Jin


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Again, I made a distinction between two Rinnegans. The tomoe-less version is acquired when both powers are united. Obito didn't have Indra power or the EMS.


They all had Shinju's chakra, which supersedes human chakra.  



Klue said:


> But no, Hagoromo doesn't have Sharingan powers. Just Uchiha powers, whatever they are.


I know what you're referring to, and you know you're taking it out of it's context.  



Klue said:


> Lol okay, I'll play along.
> 
> Her two eyes aren't Byakugan, and her third isn't a Sharingan.
> 
> ...


Serious discussion here, folks. 



Klue said:


> Enjoy yourself.


----------



## NW (Apr 16, 2014)

Klue said:


> Confirmed.
> 
> It's probably a higher form of the Rinnegan, or its true form? Kinda makes sense if you think about it.
> 
> ...


While Madara called the eye a Rinnegan, Rikudou called it a Sharingan, so that means Sharingan and Rinnegan are the same thing. The confusing part now is how the stages work, and I think you may have nailed it.


----------



## Klue (Apr 16, 2014)

Fusion said:


> While Madara called the eye a Rinnegan, *Rikudou called it a Sharingan*, so that means Sharingan and Rinnegan are the same thing. The confusing part now is how the stages work, and I think you may have nailed it.



No. 

But he confirm what we knew already: the Juubi's eye has Sharingan's powers


----------



## NarutoShion4ever (Apr 18, 2014)

Hagoromo's rinnegan (3 eyes) = 9 tomoe rinnegan (one eye) + byakugan (two eyes)

Hagoromo's rinnegan (3 eyes) - 2 byakugan eyes = a single 9 tomoe rinnegan

zero tomoe rinnegan - YANG = 9 tomoe rinnegan​
If we assume that the Byakugan eyes are YANG, it all fits. 

Well...except for that pesky detail that Naruto didn't get the yang power of Hagoromo. But since it was already called the Senjutsu of the Sage, we can ignore that.

yang?  Move along, nothing to see, folks.




Klue said:


> I can only based this off the little I have seen from Naruto.
> 
> Hagoromo definitely centered their powers into their dominate arms. For Naruto, he definitely increased his Yang powers, as he used his right hand to save Gai's life. Furthermore, Naruto's new Rasengan uses Son Goku's power, he also used his right arm for that technique.
> 
> ...




That makes sense. Hagoromo boosts Sasuke's yin powers and Naruto's yang powers respectively to Hagoromo's level.

It's more accurate to say that everyone of Naruto's abilities that rely on his body (body powers) got boosted. So Sage Mode and Jinchuriki powers got combined into senjutsu of the sage.




Klue said:


> Kabuto, revived Sasuke, with Hashirama's cells. And it's still possible that Rikudou slipped in a bit of his Yang energy to keep him in balance with Naruto.
> 
> Regardless, Yang isn't absent.




It depends on whether you argue from Uchiha and Senju upwards...or from Kaguya downwards. But if you argue upwards, you should continue and not stop with Hagoromo.

Sasuke = Eye of the Juubi/Shinju = yin

Naruto = Body of the Juubi/Shinju = yang




Dolohov27 said:


> Yes, i think so. How else is Madara able to see the pressure points in the body. Plus the shared vision kind of functions lke Byakugan 360 degree vision. There's also Nagato being able to see the Konoha's barrier which is very Byakugan like.




It does make sense that the sharingan's chakra vision (eye of insight) is a remnant of Kaguya's byakugan abilities.




Gunners said:


> It is a Yin-Rinnegan.
> 
> Seriously though, I find it odd that people think what formed it is the same as what formed Madara. Seeing as there is a blatant difference between the two eyes. That difference being Sasuke's resembling the actual Juubi and R's mother; whilst Madara's Rinnegan resembles the eyes of a second generation ( mutated) Rinnegan user.
> 
> The eye Sasuke has more than likely surpasses Madara's, and it is definitely different. It is premature to assume it is the product of Yin and Yang. More so, when you consider the fact that the series has placed further emphasis on Naruto and Sasuke representing each force.




Either Sasuke's rinnegan = *yin rinnegan*, or Hagoromo's rinnegan = *yang rinnegan*.



9 tomoe rinnegan + yang = zero tomoe rinnegan = yang rinnegan = Hagoromo's rinnegan


zero tomoe rinnegan + yin = 9 tomoe rinnegan = yin rinnegan = Sasuke's rinnegan

I think the idea is that Sasuke got a purified yang rinnegan (thus without the yang) resulting in a 9 tomoe rinnegan.




Gunners said:


> Yes that makes perfect sense. Moments after disapproving of Madara merging the Yin and Yang chakra together, he would do the same with Sasuke.
> 
> The Rinnegan that Madara has requires both parts. What Sasuke has is evidently different to what Madara has; it has never been stated that the eye Sasuke has requires both Yin and Yang chakra.




I agree that it must be without the yang.




Clairehime said:


> This is the secret:
> 
> 
> 
> Abandon their logical failures, and follow the truth!




I tried to explain something like that with words in a different thread (last week?). Hagoromo's brother getting 9 tomoe's makes no sense, which is why I disliked the idea that 9 tomoe sharingan is a rinnegan.

But if Hagoromo = eye of the Shinju + eyes of Kaguya (Byakugan)​ and later gets the body of the shinju to become the juubi jinchuriki a.k.a. the Sage of the Six Paths, then Uchiha = Eyes of the Juubi/Shinju/Sot6P​ and Senju = Body of the Juubi/Shinju/Sot6P​
And so Hagoromo's brother would have the body powers of Kaguya (including body of the shinju fruit), with the Hyuuga inheriting the Byakugan, and the Uzumaki inheriting Kaguya's original body powers.

It does make sense that the two most powerful clans use powers of the Juubi/Shinju. This could also explain why the powers of the Senju and Uzumaki are so similar.




Jagger said:


> The possibilities of the Rinnegan possessing different stages is quite likely at this point. After all, Hagoromo possessed the Rinnegan (according to what is written in the Tablet) and he never seemed to contradict that at any point of his story.
> 
> Well, it doesn't make sense either like Blink said. Why Hagoromo doesn't have the same Rinnegan Sasuke has?




Although it does make Kakashi's words more truthful: Hagoromo's rinnegan is a mutation...just a mutation of the true rinnegan.




BlinkST said:


> ST won't be happy about this. But better me than the opposition.:ignoramus




It's almost as if someone gave him a black eye 




BlinkST said:


> If ST asks, this was your idea.




 Blood in the eye is not a good sign, so he should see a medic.  That's seriously not a healthy look.




Klue said:


> The Sharingan exist now, and the reader (as well as Naruto) best associates ocular genjutsu with what eye?
> 
> There is a reason why he didn't simply say that Kaguya possessed Byakugan and Sharingan. He explicitly stated that she possessed one eye, but only noted  the power of the other.
> 
> ...




But some word games work better than others.


----------



## MS81 (Apr 18, 2014)

vered said:


> Its a Rinnegan with tomeos.a higher form of rinnegan.
> just as i thought!!



Yep just like we all know.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 18, 2014)

I think the new eye Sasuke is not a Rinnegan or Sharingan. It is a "fusion" of both. Is Shingan or Kamigan. 

Rinnegan is Eye of Samsara. Six Realms of Samsara= Hell, Hunger, Animality, Arrogance, Humanity and Rapture.

Is mythologically FAIL to have Shinto (Sharingan) based powers. 

Sharingan is based on Shinto mythology, is FAIL having powers of the Ten Spiritual Realms. Although it is a little better, because "Sharingan" just means Swivel pupil (or Swivel Eye Copier).


The best option to me, is a new name for Sasuke's new eye. Shingan or Kamigan. 


PD: Someone asked *takl* what the real translation of Sharingan?


----------



## SaiST (Apr 18, 2014)

... M-... Mirror Wheel Eye...







_"swivel eye ripper"?_​


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 18, 2014)

SaiST said:


> ... M-... Mirror Wheel Eye...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In Spanish has been translated as " Ojo Pupila Giratoria" ("Swivel Eye Pupil") and "Ojo Copiador Giratorio" ("Eye Swivel Copier")


Mirror Wheel Eye? ?Ojo Rueda Espejo?


----------



## SaiST (Apr 18, 2014)

Viajero Del Tiempo said:


> ?Ojo Rueda Espejo?


... Si. 

I kinda get the swivel part, but not so much the ripper.


----------



## Nep Nep (Apr 18, 2014)

Luiz said:


> I really should have saved the printscreens or bookmarked the posts that said Sasuke would never have it.



I'm honestly bloody surprised anyone fooled themselves into thinking Sasuke wouldn't get an eye related boost.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 19, 2014)

SaiST said:


> ... Si.
> 
> I kinda get the swivel part, but not so much the *ripper*.



That was a horrible translation. Thanks Google Translator. Sorry, i'm quite unused to writing in English, and this happens for trust in GT.  

The correct word is *copier*. _"Eye Swivel Copier"_ 

PD: "Ripper" Facepalm to myself. "_Jack the Ripper_".  What was I thinking to make such a obvious mistake?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 19, 2014)

Juubi's eye = Kayuga's eye = Sasuke's eye = Rinnegan.

Kayuga's Rinnegan possessed the Sharingan's power in the same way that Madara's and Sasuke's Rinnegan possess the Sharingan's power. 

Maybe even Hagoromo's Rinnegan as he considered Indra's eyes as his own?


----------



## Krippy (Apr 19, 2014)

Kyuubi Naruto said:


> I'm waiting for everyone else in the "EMS is enough" crew to arrive to see their responses.



That's the Juubi's eye, not Hagaromo or Madara's Rinnegan. Which was gifted to him by RS himself. 

Nothings changed.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 19, 2014)

Rinnegan = Eye of Samsara = The cycle of birth, life, death and reincarnation = 6 Realms of existence/desire (Hell, Hunger, Animality, Arrogance, Humanity and Rapture) 

Shinto deities not fit there.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

What literally everybody seems to miss is the fact, that *we have not seen 9 tomoe in Sasuke?s eye*.

OP, you only assume that the residual Tomoe count is corresponding to prior depictions, which are considering 3 tomoe per ring, however we have not been shown such a thing.

Sasuke and Naruto now both possess Rikudou?s Yin and Yang material.

Sasuke gained Yang from Hashirama and Kabuto.
While Naruto gained Yin, by possessing Kurama?s pure Yin chakra.

They are now both incomplete Rikudou Sennin embodiments. Which is displayed by Naruto having the Goudu Dama and Sasuke?s imperfect "Rinnegan".
And this "imperfection" will definitely be depicted through the nature of Sasuke?s *incomplete* eye, which hence will certainly not depict 9 tomoe but rather less.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> What literally everybody seems to miss is the fact, that *we have not seen 9 tomoe in Sasuke?s eye*.



Look


*Spoiler*: __ 









Has 9 Tomoes.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

Maybe you ought to look again, and learn how to use spoiler tags.


----------



## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> Maybe you ought to look again, and learn how to use spoiler tags.



Count the rings and the Tomoes in each one of them. 

PD: I know how to use spoilers. Is obligatory use them?


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> What literally everybody seems to miss is the fact, that *we have not seen 9 tomoe in Sasuke?s eye*.



 There are times that call for skepticism, and there are times where you have to just use your common sense.  



Kung Pow said:


> OP, you only assume that the residual Tomoe count is corresponding to prior depictions, which are considering 3 tomoe per ring, however we have not been shown such a thing.


When have we not been shown that there are 3 tomoe per ring? Point me to a page where you felt as if you were mislead.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

When Juubi was incomplete, it too only displayed a Tomoe count deviant from previous depictions of its complete state. Such is exactly the case with Sasuke.



As opposed to its complete state, where the outer ring clearly depicts a further tomoe pattern.


Had you incorporated common sense with your previous post, you would have been able to conclude that Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" must be of imcomplete nature, seeing as he did not awaken it in both eyes and in light of the fact, that he did not gain a proper Yang transplant, but rather only subsidiary treatments.

And this incomplete nature would certainly not be depicted by him basically gaining Juubi?s eye.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> When Juubi was incomplete, it too only displayed a Tomoe count deviant from previous depictions of its complete state.


Yes, the tomoe count was different from what Kishimoto showed in volume 50 [6 instead of 9]. However, the present 10 tails' eye was never shown in such a way as to make you *assume* there were tomoe when there were none.  



Kung Pow said:


> Such is exactly the case with Sasuke.



No, that's your assumption. You're not explaining to me why you're assuming the "3 tomoe per ring" rule doesn't apply, when you can see *three* rings contain tomoe, unlike the 10 tails' eye [2 rings]; you're not explaining where this _mistrust_ is coming from.


----------



## Blaze Release (Apr 19, 2014)

I've a couple of things to say first. I actually believe the final stage of the eye actually has 12 tomoe's and not 9. Each ring containing 3, and there are a max of 4 rings.

Anyway it appears the doujutsu are in line with the persons chakra. 
By this i mean, the 9T sharringan or whatever is called, to gain this you will need to somehow get close to kaguya's chakra.

For the rinnegan, rikudou's chakra after merging the 2 sons. This explains why Obito never obtained the rinnegan, because as the sage said when both sons chakra are merged. Some may claim it merely means senju + uchiha, but its no coincidence that the two uchiha's who have gained the rinnegan, after obtaining hashirama's dna who had the younger brothers chakra, both were the older brother at some stage. So its not as simple as uchiha + senju after all. You have to be possessed by those bastards as its their chakra that will allow you to reach the rinnegan

Also seems that indra's chakra or transmigrants are the only one's that can obtain the ems as that is the symbol of his chakra, his power no different to kaguya and her sharrinnegan and RS and his rinnegan. Also explains why there has been numerous eye exchanges within the uchiha's as itachi claimed and none but madara and currently sasuke are the only once to achieve this eye. So its probable that if sasuke had the ms and itachi took his eyes, he wouldn't have gained the ems.

Anyway the sharingan's name changed once it reached its next stage to be called a rinnegan. It makes no sense for anything above the rinnegan to be called the sharingan again.

A couple of things though. If Sasuke's eye is indeed the same as kaguya's does that mean his dojutsu is now above that of RS?. If that is case then surely naruto's senjutsu should also be above RS's are they both got roughly the same amount of power. Or perhaps because sasuke lacks the other half of RS's power he cannot make full use of that eye. Would be stupid for RS to give sasuke a doujutsu that is now superior to his lol.

Madara also said he has both naruto's and Sasuke's power. If that is true then surely is madara saying he also has the 9T as he could not have missed the tomoe's. Does that mean that RS also potentially gained the tomoe's and he can make it appear and disappear


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> You're not explaining to me why you're assuming the "3 tomoe per ring" rule doesn't apply, when you can see *three* rings contain tomoe, unlike the 10 tails' eye [2 rings]; you're not explaining where this _mistrust_ is coming from.



I did not explain it, because I incorrectly assumed you being capable of concluding the obvious.

Step 1: Sasuke awakened the "Rinnegan", because he gained Rikudou?s Yang material in addition to his native Yin portion.

Step 2: Since Sasuke did not actually receive a proper genetic transplant, the resulting effects turned out accordingly. 
His "Rinnegan" only awakened in one eye, and must therefor be *incomplete*, corresponding to the incomplete nature of his genetic material regarding Rikudou?s Yin/Yang requirement for the *proper* Rinnegan.

This concept of incompletion is supported by Naruto experiencing exactly the same thing.
He gained Yin through Kurama?s pure Yin chakra and as a result also depicts an imperfect Rikudou state, which is pointed out by his black sleeves and Gudou Dama.

They are both *imperfect* Rikudou embodiments.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Rinnegan isn't "above" the Sharingan, if this plays out the way my sig implies. This is the new Senju and Uchiha.


----------



## Klue (Apr 19, 2014)

Yes, that's the Blink-kun I know. Thought I lost you there for a second.


----------



## ZE (Apr 19, 2014)

Rinnegan isn't above the sharingan
Yet the rinnegan is a fusion of the sharingan with the senjuu powers
Which would imply sharingan>sharingan+senjuu


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Klue said:


> Yes, that's the Blink-kun I know. Thought I lost you there for a second.


What? 



ZE said:


> Rinnegan isn't above the sharingan
> Yet the rinnegan is a fusion of the sharingan with the senjuu powers
> Which would imply sharingan>sharingan+senjuu


That's if the Rinnegan is held by the original owner [Madara], at which point it's a glorified Sharingan transformation. They otherwise have complimentary powers, and Kishimoto suggested with Itachi, and will follow-through with Sasuke, implies they are at equal footing.   



Kung Pow said:


> His "Rinnegan" only awakened in one eye, and must therefor be *incomplete*, corresponding to the incomplete nature of his genetic material regarding Rikudou?s Yin/Yang requirement for the *proper* Rinnegan.



Sasuke having one eye has to with _Shinju_ having one eye, as well _Kaguya_ having one eye when she took the chakra. It's actually pretty consistent.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Sasuke having one eye has to with _Shinju_ having one eye, as well _Kaguya_ having one eye when she took the chakra. It's actually pretty consistent.



You are deliberately disregardnig symmetry, and you know it.
Dishonesty won?t grant your assumptions validity.

Sasuke is *certainly* incomplete, since *any other case* would have resulted in him gaining the same state Madara did when he combined Yin/Yang with a proper genetic transplant, which Sasuke did not receive.

They are both Indra?s incarnations, and as such should also experience equal development upon certain manipulation of their DNA.
And since Sasuke did not gain the Rinnegan Madara did, the only logical explanation is that he must be at an inferior state, hence *incomplete*.

And such incompletion would certainly not be depicted by Sasuke gaining Juubi?s eye.

Also the fact that Madara never pointed out, that Sasuke?s eye was in any way special, should cause you to reconsider your misguided view in this matter.
Madara?s statement of him combining both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers should do the rest in terms of logic.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> You are deliberately disregardnig symmetry, and you know it.
> Dishonesty won?t grant your assumptions validity.


 I'm disregarding theories as opposed to what the story shows. Couldn't give a damn about symmetry.  



Kung Pow said:


> Sasuke is *certainly* incomplete, since *any other case* would have resulted in him gaining the same state Madara did when he combined Yin/Yang with a proper genetic transplant, which Sasuke did not receive.


 The only two organisms with Sasuke's eye design had only one of those eyes [Shinju; Kaguya]. Guess they also didn't have "proper genetic transplant". Shinju doesn't even had two eyes, so that's even worse.  



Kung Pow said:


> Also the fact that Madara never pointed out, that Sasuke?s eye was in any way special, should cause your to reconsider you misguided view in this matter.


Madara does not care about anyone.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> The only two organisms with Sasuke's eye design had only one of those eyes [Shinju; Kaguya]. Guess they also didn't have "proper genetic transplant". Shinju doesn't even had two eyes, so that's even worse.
> [/font]



That fallacious conclusion is again connected to your misguided assumption of Sasuke?s eye possessing 9 tomoe, which it cannot since it is incomplete.

Madara specifically stated, that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers, hence indicating that his eye was superior to Sasuke?s, which lacked the half or sufficient amounts of it, that Madara?s apparently possesses. 
And that can only mean Sasuke?s eye is indeed inferior and hence incomplete.


Which is again attributive to the fact, that Madara received a proper Yang transplant, while Sasuke did not.  That is the *only thing* which genetically distinguishes the two, since we know that they even share the same chakra, seeing as incarnations also share the original?s chakra.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> That fallacious conclusion is again connected to your misguided assumption of Sasuke?s eye possessing 9 tomoe, which it cannot since it is incomplete.



Doesn't matter if it's 9 tomoe or 6: the point is that only Shinju and Kaguya had that design.  



Kung Pow said:


> Madara specifically stated, that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers, hence indicating that his eye was superior to Sasuke?s, which lacked the half or sufficient amounts of it, that Madara?s apparently possesses.


Better to wait until next chapter. Madara's a weirdo.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Better to wait until next chapter. Madara's a weirdo.



Finally a forfeit, I have been waiting for one of those.

Even if that is already the pinnacle of you admitting to be wrong, I will gladly accept.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 19, 2014)

> Juubi eye has Sharingan power
> Its the Sharingan
> It is called the Rinnegan
> Best to wait next week for a confirmation.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Yeah, best to wait next week. I doubt the original eye is actually called "Rinnegan", since that was always Hagoromo's thing.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

I would like to set up a bet Blinky.

100$ on Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" merely being an incomplete state with certainly less than 9 tomoe, due to his lack of proper Yang material in form of a transplant such as Madara received, which resulted in the complete Rinnegan.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> I would like to set up a bet Blinky.
> 
> 100$ on Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" merely being an incomplete state with certainly less than 9 tomoe, due to his lack of proper Yang material in form of a transplant such as Madara received, which resulted in the complete Rinnegan.


If our "bet" involved a third party, you'd lose. Sasuke's eye is the same as Kaguya's. And I'll bet 100k rep instead of $100.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> If our "bet" involved a third party, you'd lose. Sasuke's eye is the same as Kaguya's. And I'll bet 100k rep instead of $100.




That is BS, Blinky.
He cannot possibly have Kaguya?s or rather Juubi?s eye, as that would mean, that his eye is superior to Madara?s.

And if that was the case, Madara would not have *explicitly* stated, that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers, indicating that they were both inferior to him, hence also Sasuke?s eye being inferior to the *actual* Rinnegan.  
And the *only* logical conclusion to be generated from such a statement, is that Sasuke?s eye is inferior to the standard Rinnegan and therefor incomplete in some way.

If I lose, which I most certainly will not, 100$ will be transferred to you via Paypal.
_A Lannister always pays his debts._


----------



## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Apr 19, 2014)

Uh Sasuke's eye clearly has 9 tomoe. Anyone with proper sight can see that.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Third party said:


> Uh Sasuke's eye clearly has 9 tomoe. Anyone with proper sight can see that.


Looks like I won.  



Kung Pow said:


> He cannot possibly have Kaguya?s or rather Juubi?s eye, as that would mean, that his eye is superior to Madara?s.


The eye does not have to be as powerful to share the same design. Kaguya's power was more in regards to the chakra she had than the the eye itself.  



Kung Pow said:


> And if that was the case, Madara would not have *explicitly* stated, that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers, indicating that they were both inferior to him, hence also Sasuke?s eye being inferior to the *actual* Rinnegan.


 Madara said he's stronger than the two of them because he has their power in one body. He didn't say he had a better "version" of what they had.  



Kung Pow said:


> And the *only* logical conclusion to be generated from such a statement, is that Sasuke?s eye is inferior to the standard Rinnegan and therefor incomplete in some way.


We'll have to wait until the next few chapters to determine that. The "standard" Rinnegan has so far been Hagoromo's.  



Kung Pow said:


> If I lose, which I most certainly will not, 100$ will be transferred to you via Paypal.
> _A Lannister always pays his debts._


 I already won, but I don't want your money. 100k rep is good.


----------



## Kung Pow (Apr 19, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Looks like I won.
> 
> 
> The eye does not have to be as powerful to share the same design. Kaguya's power was more in regards to the chakra she had than the the eye itself.



The design is an indicator of its devine power, as it is unique.
Sasuke cannot possibly have it, since he lacks the proper genetic material.
Madara is the only recognized Indra incarnation to have successfully combined Yin/Yang.

The fact that Sasuke only awakened his "Rinnegan" in one eye, doesn?t throw you off at all?
All indicators point towards it being incomplete.

Madara was stated to strive for Kaguya?s eye.
It would be completely illogical and stupid for Sasuke to have it, while not even having successfully combined Yin and Yang, which is clearly evident in his one eyed, incomplete, "Rinnegan".




BlinkST said:


> Madara said he's stronger than the two of them because he has their power in one body. He didn't say he had a better "version" of what they had.


You really struggle with logic sometimes.

*The Rinnegan is the successful combination of Yin and Yang.*


Him saying that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s power in one being, is utter evidence of the fact, that Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" does not properly involve a successful and complete combination of Yin/Yang, since Madara would not have stated such a thing if that were the case.


----------



## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> The design is an indicator of its devine power, as it is unique.


not always. It's about as different as comparing two Sharingan. Power depends on the person, and Sasuke obviously isn't going to be as strong as Kaguya or Shinju itself.  



Kung Pow said:


> The fact that Sasuke only awakened his "Rinnegan" in one eye, doesn?t throw you off at all?
> All indicators point towards it being incomplete.


 If it was "incomplete", it wouldn't _look_ like the thing Madara is trying to get.  



Kung Pow said:


> Madara was stated to strive for Kaguya?s eye.
> It would be completely illogical and stupid for Sasuke to have it, while not even having successfully combined Yin and Yang, which is clearly evident in his one eyed, incomplete, "Rinnegan".


The only organisms to have a single one of those eyes, are Shinju itself and Kaguya; no one has ever had two. I don't think Sasuke is actually meant to have two of those eyes, in keeping with the "cyclops" imagery. I believe the purpose of that is for him to use that eye with his Sharingan. They compliment each other. [See sig]  



Kung Pow said:


> Him saying that he *combined* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s power in one being, is utter evidence of the fact, that Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" does not properly involve a successful and complete combination of Yin/Yang, since Madara would not have stated such a thing if that were the case.



No, him saying he has their powers in one body, has to do with his interpretation of Hagoromo's tablet. He never said he had a "version" of Naruto's senjutsu or a "version" of Sasuke's Rinnegan.


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## Viajero Del Tiempo (Apr 19, 2014)

*BlinkST* Look at this:
[sp=Tag over-sized images][/sp]Your image made me notice that... Kishi's Foreshadowing?


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## BlinkST (Apr 19, 2014)

Kishi foreshadowing:ignoramus


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## icemaster143 (Apr 20, 2014)

I think people are thinking of this in reverse.

I personally believe that having the tome in the circles doesn't signal more power but rather less. What I'm Saying is that its a sign of an incomplete Rinnegan.

A simple thing we need to remember is that dispite their power it is going to take BOTH Naruto and Sasukes power to counter madara. 

What Naruto and Sasuke currently have are perfect halves of the Rikudou's whole. 

Kaguya's eye was only so powerful due to it being powered by the fruit(also signs point to her becoming the Juubi). But Most importantly she was transformed by the fruit. Its power wasn't Native to her body from the beginning it Mutated her.

The Sage's body and eye's were adapted to chakra from birth. 

Kaguya was Mutated the Sage of the six paths was evolution.


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

icemaster143 said:


> I think people are thinking of this in reverse.
> 
> I personally believe that having the tome in the circles doesn't signal more power but rather less. What I'm Saying is that its a sign of an incomplete Rinnegan.


Exactly, but only because Sasuke does not have 9 Tomoe in his eye, as that would be an indicator of ultimate power.

Sasuke?s eye is incomplete, hence it will probably display 6 Tomoe.

Blinky is simply being dishonest and trying to hold on to an idea that is clearly incorrect.

Sasuke could never have Kaguya?s/Juubi?s 9 Tomoe eye, as he has not even completed Yin/Yang at this point, and Juubi?s eye is the combination of Yin/Yang and an additional factor, which even Madara is currently striving for.

Madara clearly stated, that he combined Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers in one being, hence making a reference to Yin/Yang.

Seeing as the Rinnegan is *already* the combination of Yin/Yang, Madara would not nave stated anything of that nature, seeing as Sasuke would then already possess and integrate Yin/Yang, the two powers Madara claimed to combine in one being *as opposed* to Sasuke and Naruto.




icemaster143 said:


> What Naruto and Sasuke currently have are perfect halves of the Rikudou's whole.
> .



Actually, not entirely.

Sasuke has gained a certain portion of Yang material, where as Naruto has obtained Yin material.
Sasuke did so during his encounters with Hashirama & Kabuto saving him, while Naurot has attained Kurama?s pure Yin half.

That is the reason why both are displaying certain patterns and signs of a perfect Yin/Yang combination such as Madara, while still remaining relatively *incomplete*.

For example Naruto?s Gudou Dama and black sleeves and Sasuke?s *incomplete*, premature "Rinnegan".


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## Csdabest (Apr 20, 2014)

*I'll just leave the basic entirety of my thoughts here since my thread failed.*


Csdabest said:


> *Remember You have to Control the Cells*
> 
> Sasuke is probably adjusting to hashirama power and trying to gain control. We have seen several times when foreign entities are introduced to the body they try to take over. So take that how you want it. The fact that both Sasuke eye's are not matching probably hints that their instability within Sasuke power which we also have seen at the Rikudou levels. But here are a few examples of struggling with Foreign DNA. We must not forget that Rinnegan was once stated to be a Mutation and we have evidence of Senju DNA/Juubi Body causing mutations.
> 
> ...





Csdabest said:


> It took a while for sasuke to get use the curse seal power. He even needed help by taking a pill for it(The Death Awakening Pill). I think depending if your strong enough to control the foreign entities powers you will get a different output in power which may explain the differences in some doujutsu design. Especially Since sasuke's had E. mangekyo his eyes were upside down and lopsided and in the Kage Confession arc his eyes in multiple chapters were just regular MS. Perhaps thats what Tobito Meant that you will need to get Adjusted to the power first.
> 
> *Tobito States it will take time to Adjust.*
> 
> ...



I just saw that people were saying the eye was incomplete. Its not. Sasuke most likely is getting a power up from it. We have seen the Rinnegan multiple times in the center of the forehead so when Sasuke controls his Genetics he will gain it there most likely. Remember the Rinnegan is stated to be a mutation so its possible that since its in one eye that Sasuke might just be trying to control it since he just got off the verge of death.

This shit does happen in the manga in every case of cell genetic transfer.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Yeah, best to wait next week. I doubt the original eye is actually called "Rinnegan", since that was always Hagoromo's thing.



It could have been, as Madara - who seemingly obtained Kayuga's power - called it. 

It could be that Sasuke, thus Kayuga and the Juubi, simply have a higher Rinnegan. Either way the tomoe on the eye isn't considered to be a Sharingan. Although it does possess Sharingan powers, it also possesses Rinnegan powers too. As the appearance propounds, it has more powers than the Rinnegan has (assuming Limbo was the only set of powers that Nagato couldn't/didn't display).


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

doesnt sasukes rinnegan actually have 9 tomoes? 

and the manga hasnt stated Madara strives for Kaguyas eye or shinju fruit..


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

takL said:


> doesnt sasukes rinnegan actually have 9 tomoes?


No, for all we know it has 5.
And since it is incomplete, Sasuke?s tomoe count in that specific eye will certainly not exceed 6 tomoe. It is merely an imperfect Rinnegan, reflecting the incomplete nature of his genetic make up regarding his Yin/Yang material.



takL said:


> and the manga hasnt stated Madara strives for Kaguyas eye or shinju fruit..


Well, then you need to re-read the Manga.


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## Klue (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> Well, then you need to re-read the Manga.



Who tells a translator to reread the manga, and provides translated text?

Da Fuck?


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## Arles Celes (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> Absolutely, as Sasuke?s eye is indeed incomplete and inferior, due to his lack in a proper Yang transplant such as Madara had acquired it.
> The reason he awakened this incomplete Rinnegan, is because the amounts of Yang he attained from Hashirama and Kabuto were insufficient, while his imperfect development is simply reflecting such.
> I do not believe that the best way of depicting such inferiority could be accomplished by displaying him with Juubi?s 9 tomoe pattern, which is an eye *even* Madara still strives for.
> 
> ...



So since Sasuke's eye is weaker than a normal rinnegan does it mean that Sasuke is inferior to one eyed Rinne Tensei Madara who in turn is weaker than Juubi Madara who is weaker than Base Current Naruto who is weaker than BM Current Naruto and Shinju Madara?

...And yet he is going to assist Naruto somehow despite your assessment putting his eye below someone like Nagato? The same Nagato that wouldn't be more of a help against Shinju Madara than Sakura?

If his RS power up was so weak then Naruto wouldn't make such a big deal of being in awe by sensing RS's power other half even at a big distance and would instead tell the newly arrived Sasuke to run away as fast as he can.

Or maybe due to Naruto having an incomplete RS Senjutsu does it mean that Madara with the perfect version of it let Base Naruto kick his ass on purpose?

Yeah...right.


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> Also keep in mind that Madara claimed to *combine* both Sasuke?s and Naruto?s powers in one being. He certainly would not have said such a thing, if Sasuke already possessed Juubi?s/Kaguya?s 9 tomoe eye



easy. he either has the same rinnegan to sasukes on the forehead or is just mistaken.



Kung Pow said:


> Thing is, I do too and the kanji clearly state that Madara was motivated/engaged to obtain Kaguya?s eye or rather "power".
> Don?t attempt to hide behind the translation aspect.



great! Now write down the kanji (just kanji? and no hiragana? hahahaha jp isnt chinese!) that says maddy is motivated/engaged to obtain Kaguya's eye in jp.

and then translate this japanese text 
ハワイを越えた津波は今勢いを得て西海岸に近づき　
南西部_にさえ近づこうとうとしている_

would the tsunami be motivated/engaged to do that?


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## Tony Lou (Apr 20, 2014)

Blink is the leader of the Rinneganless Sasuke Movement, RSM. :ignoramus

Personally, I don't care what it's called. 


The fact remains that Sasuke currently possesses a legendary doujutsu above any other kind.


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

@takL: I am only getting fragments.  What is "近づき南西" ?
           I can?t read it fluently, but I do understand basic scripture.
We both know that there are always *multiple* interpretation possibilities, even though it might not _specifically _say "motivated", "源を望んでいる" can be concluded as him having a "desire" or rather wanting to gain Kaguya?s power.
As a result, one might translate it as being motivated.


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Blink is the leader of the Rinneganless Sasuke Movement, RSM. :ignoramus


Correction, Blink has seen what Kishi is actually up to, so he throws his weight behind "Mangekyo Rinnegan", 100 percent. :ignoramus


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## Klue (Apr 20, 2014)

Should probably place the Rinnegan on the left, Blink-kun. 

Doesn't flow well with the pic under it. :ignoramus


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

3+9=12 after all


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

You get the point.:ignoramus


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

Naruto will eventually have the complete Juubi; 100% Kurama is obviously going to be a power up (as well as the fruit possibly). 

One Rinnegan and the MS can't stand up to that. Sasuke will need two Rinnegan; Madara and a few others suggest that 2 Rinnegan>>>1 Rinnegan.


----


Why shouldn't Sasuke have tomoe in all the rings like the Juubi?


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## Krippy (Apr 20, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Naruto will eventually have the complete Juubi; 100% Kurama is obviously going to be a power up (as well as the fruit possibly).
> 
> One Rinnegan and the MS can't stand up to that. Sasuke will need two Rinnegan; Madara and a few others suggest that 2 Rinnegan>>>1 Rinnegan.
> 
> ...



Why would naruto need the complete Juubi?


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Correction, Blink has seen what Kishi is actually up to, so he throws his weight behind "Mangekyo Rinnegan", 100 percent. :ignoramus



That?s as close as you are gonna get with that fallacious theory.



Let?s just approach this logically.

The perfect Rinnegan, Rikudou possessed, has only once been acquired, through a very specific method.


There is no panel in existance, suggesting that Sasuke has undergone such a procedure.

Your belief that Sasuke actually possesses an eye superior to Hagoromo and Madara is illogical, seeing as he has not even awakened the actual Rinnegan, since he lacks the proper genetic material.

You can?t skip a complete evolution cycle past the actual Rinnegan, while not even possessing proper Yin/Yang material:

Sasuke?s "Rinnegan" is merely a genetically incomplete eye, deal with it.


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> @takL: I am only getting fragments.  What is "近づき南西" ?
> I can?t read it fluently, but I do understand basic scripture.
> We both know that there are always *multiple* interpretation possibilities, even though it might not _specifically _say "motivated", "源を望んでいる" can be concluded as him having a "desire" or rather wanting to gain Kaguya?s power.
> As a result, one might translate it as being motivated.



"源を望んでいる" want the source?  
thats nowhere in the raw.

write down the part that says maddy is after kaguyas eye from the raw.

西南部＝the southwestern part


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

takL said:


> "源を望んでいる" want the source?
> thats nowhere in the raw.
> 
> write down the part that says maddy is after kaguyas eye from the raw.
> ...



"南西部にさえ近づこうとうとしている"
So its "I need to get closer to the southwestern part"?
I still don?t know the middle part though.

It doesn?t specifically say that he is after Kaguya?s eye, I believe it says "電源" or " ちから" , either way "engen" or "chikara" undeniably means power.


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 










Sasuke was supposed to surpass Itachi, who has Mangekyo, and surpass Nagato, who has Rinnegan. We already know that with those two powers together, you can do anything, and now Sasuke has both.



Everything is as Orochimaru dreamed of. _*Mangekyo Rinnegan*_ is the inevitable reality.:ignoramus


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> "南西部にさえ近づこうとうとしている"
> So its "I need to get closer to the southwestern part"?
> I still don?t know the middle part though.
> 
> It doesn?t specifically say that he is after Kaguya?s eye, I believe it says "電源" or " ちから" , either way "engen" or "chikara" undeniably means power.


the subject is '津波 tsunami' in the text i provided. 

電源denngen=electronic power supply. 

just type out  the part from the raw that made u think maddy was after the fruit/kaguya's eye. if u actually read the raw, that is.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Why would naruto need the complete Juubi?



It is obvious he will get the Juubi. 
Incoming tug of war!


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

takL said:


> 電源denngen=electronic power supply.



It *can *mean source of electricity.
But the more common use is power or current.




takL said:


> just type out  the part from the raw that made u think maddy was after the fruit/kaguya's eye. if u actually read the raw, that is.



I don?t remember it precisely.
I additionally use a software based translator when I read it.
It said  "電源への欲求" "demand for power". or something along those lines.

"chikara" was certainly incorporated regarding Kaguya, or are you denying that?


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> It is obvious he will get the Juubi.
> Incoming tug of war!


He doesn't need the ten tails for that. You want the biju to be replaced by the butt-ugly ten tails?


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

You can read the full Uchiha tablet with your Mangekyo Sharingan, indeed.:ignoramus 

The rest of us mere mortals have to settle with our Sharingan.


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## Krippy (Apr 20, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> It is obvious he will get the Juubi.
> Incoming tug of war!



Sooooo you cant muster up a logical reason for him to have it besides "LOL its obvious he will get it"

Just like it was obvious nardo would be the next RS, amirite?


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

You should ask takL about what Hagoromo said about Kaguya's eye while you're at it.


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> It *can *mean source of electricity.
> But the more common meaning is power or current.
> 
> 
> ...


"電源への欲求" = need for electric source?
just google for "電源への欲求" !

電den=Electricity. 
and i dont remember seeing the word 電源 in the manga.


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## Kung Pow (Apr 20, 2014)

takL said:


> "電源への欲求" = need for electric source?
> just google for "電源への欲求" !
> 
> and i dont remember seeing the word 電源 in the manga.



It does not necessarily mean electric source, it can be equivalent to "chikara" and you know this, stop being dishonest.

I vaguely remember, however I am not certain.

The sub trans clearly depict the "desire for power" as well. 

It said something along those lines, but if you insist I will look it up specifically.


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## takL (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> It does not necessarily mean electric source, it can be equivalent to "chikara" and you know this, stop being dishonest.
> 
> I vaguely remember, however I am not certain.
> 
> ...


pleeeeease do. 

if u say 電　it does. and whos dishonest here? u and ur sub trans.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> He doesn't need the ten tails for that. You want the biju to be replaced by the butt-ugly ten tails?



They won't be replaced, as Naruto himself demonstrated. In fact before that, Obito and Madara showed they aren't split. Naruto would just a stronger version of himself due to having all 9 Bijuu. 
The only difference between Naruto and the other Juubi Jinchuriki is that, unlike them, Naruto is actually on good terms with each Bijuu. Thus he could use their individual powers alongside what Obito/Madara would display.

That is the ultimate body power to match Sasuke getting the ultimate pair of chakra eyes (two fully matured Rinnegan). :ignoramus



Krippy said:


> Sooooo you cant muster up a logical reason for him to have it besides "LOL its obvious he will get it"
> 
> Just like it was obvious nardo would be the next RS, amirite?



I remember "LOL its obvious he will get it" wasn't good enough to support Rinnegan Sasuke, amiright? 

You're too hung up on what _you_ perceive to be "logical". How did the last Juubi Jinchuriki lose? He was de-powered by losing the Juubi. After Naruto pledged that he'd save the Bijuu. You guess it, the tug of war was used.
Naruto _is_ the person who is going to led the Bijuu down the right path, as Hagoromo said. He isn't the person whose going to lead half of a Bijuu and fragments of them down the right path. 

Now these _are_ obvious reasons. I'd like to see you think of an actual reason why Naruto _wouldn't_ obtain it.
After all, before the last couple of weeks, Naruto getting _all_ the Bijuu's power was totally impossible by most posters' opinion. Same deal with Naruto obtaining the Truth Seeking Orbs.

We all know Yang Kurama, the one that Naruto had since the beginning, isn't going to remain separated from Naruto. Nor are the Bijuu he promised to save too.


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## BlinkST (Apr 20, 2014)

Munboy, you used to argue Sasuke already surpassed Nagato back when he fought Danzo, so don't even talk.:ignoramus


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> Munboy, you used to argue Sasuke already surpassed Nagato back when he fought Danzo, so don't even talk.:ignoramus



I never said Sasuke surpassed Nagato... ever. 

Now I proudly said, and still say, that Sasuke surpassed Itachi back then.


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## Klue (Apr 20, 2014)

Speaking of Sasuke surpassing Nagato, I think now is a good time. :ignoramus


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

BlinkST said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The abilities you described are things anyone who awakened the Rinnegan and all its preceding eyes are capable of doing. Though, unlike Nagato, they need to be conscious of the previous powers e.g. Madara and Sasuke... possibly Hagoromo too*.

*He considered Indra's eye to be his. Perhaps the fully matured Rinnegan got lost in Hagoromo's generation. Then the Rinnegan got lost in Indra's generation and so on.



Klue said:


> Speaking of Sasuke surpassing Nagato, I think now is a good time. :ignoramus



Indeed: Sasuke surpassed Itachi when he got the MS, now he surpassed Nagato upon obtaining the Rinnegan. :ignoramus


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## Klue (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> Why do you think Sasuke wasn?t shown with specifically 9 tomoe?



You speak as if we're able to see his eye fully.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

Kung Pow said:


> And that grammar did the rest.



Naruto's got the Yin-Yang style, he isn't missing any Truth Seeking Orbs. Yet you're saying Sasuke's going to be lacking in tomoe.


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## SaiST (Apr 20, 2014)

Guys, play nice.

Papa spank.


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## Tony Lou (Apr 20, 2014)

I don't know how you'd even fit all tomoes in that picture. lol

But on a serious note, each trio is on a different circle. The fact that he's got tomoes on three of them is enough evidence.

We don't need to see his entire eyeball to make sure.


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## Max Thunder (Apr 20, 2014)

Clearly Kishi intended not to show all of the tomoe and has deliberately decided to draw all of Sasuke's ''5''' tomoe on the lower half of his eye. You know, for artistic/aesthetic reasons... lel.


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## Tony Lou (Apr 20, 2014)

Maybe because Sasuke is looking up? 

Angles, guys. It's a simple concept.

And it's not really something that needs to be proven. Some folks are clutching for straws here.


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## ch1p (Apr 20, 2014)

To be fair, vanilla sharingan had tomoes missing it in this exact same fashion. Within one eye, Sasuke had one and two tomoes at different times, and even between eyes, Sasuke had one and two tomoes on each eye at the same time.

I very much doubt they're missing though. Naruto seems to be "complete" and we've had enough power ups lately. If Sasuke is missing tomoes and / or another eye to be completed but will unlock them as he goes along is just dragging the story unnecessarily as well.


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## Klue (Apr 20, 2014)

This panel still fills me with so much joy.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Krippy (Apr 20, 2014)

OH SHIT WE GOT ONE



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> I remember "LOL its obvious he will get it" wasn't good enough to support Rinnegan Sasuke, amiright?



Sasuke didnt awaken the "Rinnegan" by his own merit. Hagoromo gave it to him for the sole purpose of defeating Madara.

Rinnegan Sasuke involved Sasuke obtaining the Rinnegan by mixing his Indara power with some of Ashura's power and getting Hagoromo's power, which clearly didn't happen.

He's got Kaguya's eye now. He's as Yin as he's always been.



> You're too hung up on what _you_ perceive to be "logical". How did the last Juubi Jinchuriki lose? He was de-powered by losing the Juubi. After Naruto pledged that he'd save the Bijuu. You guess it, the tug of war was used.
> Naruto _is_ the person who is going to led the Bijuu down the right path, as Hagoromo said. He isn't the person whose going to lead half of a Bijuu and fragments of them down the right path.



And you're too hung up on non sequiturs to answer my original question:

what purpose would Naruto obtaining the Juubi be? It blatantly obvious that they will be extracted and Madara defeated. How will joining them together and sealing them inside himself be beneficial to them?



> Now these _are_ obvious reasons. I'd like to see you think of an actual reason why Naruto _wouldn't_ obtain it.
> After all, before the last couple of weeks, Naruto getting _all_ the Bijuu's power was totally impossible by most posters' opinion. Same deal with Naruto obtaining the Truth Seeking Orbs.



No, Naruto isn't gonna become their Jin. Several wars have been over Jins, so another one isn't solving anything. RS was a Jin and look how that turned out.



> We all know Yang Kurama, the one that Naruto had since the beginning, isn't going to remain separated from Naruto. Nor are the Bijuu he promised to save too.



He's obviously gonna keep Kurama for the foreseeable future. Keeping the rest of the Bijuu inside of him accomplishes nothing for them.


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## Fiiction (Apr 20, 2014)

9 Tomoe Rinnegan = Rinnegan w/precognition.

So all Rinnegan powers, but this time it has all the abilities of a 3 Tomoe sharingan but 3x advanced.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Apr 20, 2014)

Krippy said:


> Sasuke didnt awaken the "Rinnegan" by his own merit. Hagoromo gave it to him for the sole purpose of defeating Madara.
> 
> Rinnegan Sasuke involved Sasuke obtaining the Rinnegan by mixing his Indara power with some of Ashura's power and getting Hagoromo's power, which clearly didn't happen.
> 
> He's got Kaguya's eye now. He's as Yin as he's always been.




He had Hashirama cells pumped into him. Like with Madara, Indra and Asura's chakra became one: that explains the Rinnegan. 

There's a reason why Madara, who can sense people's ocular powers called it the Rinnegan.

"Merit" or not, he got the Rinnegan in the end. 


> And you're too hung up on non sequiturs to answer my original question:
> 
> what purpose would Naruto obtaining the Juubi be? It blatantly obvious that they will be extracted and Madara defeated. How will joining them together and sealing them inside himself be beneficial to them?



I outlined points which allude to it.

If you rather I answer the question directly: to lead them down the right path. *Before* we saw Naruto return, we could have argued that he would lead them through other means. However we couldn't ignore that they would eventually become one again, as Hagoromo said.
Now upon his return it is shown, supplemented with a prophecy on the side, how that will happen. Naruto will house all the Bijuu. The fact he has the Truth Seeking Orbs _without_ the Juubi's husk says a lot. It is an indicator that he'll be getting the entire thing.



> No, Naruto isn't gonna become their Jin. Several wars have been over Jins, so another one isn't solving anything. RS was a Jin and look how that turned out.



RS was a Jinchuriki, but he had no problem issuing his Jinchuriki power to another person who is a pseudo Juubi Jinchuriki. The last time Jinchuriki pulled out their chakra from a Juubi Jinchuriki, that chakra got combined with their own. The same thing is going to happen there. Fighting this is like fighting the idea of Rinnegan Sasuke, which too had very similar hints prior its official debut.



> He's obviously gonna keep Kurama for the foreseeable future. Keeping the rest of the Bijuu inside of him accomplishes nothing for them.



Naruto obviously has a permanent power up. The Bijuu are already working well with him, it makes no sense to have two separate Bijuu around. Even Kurama, as you acknowledge, will be united with Naruto. So it is pretty obvious that the other Bijuu will be reunited. 

Unless Kishimoto plans to *depower* Naruto to fight Sasuke, then there is really nothing that stops Juubi Naruto from happening.

It is similar to Naruto and Kurama, it made sense for him to get the whole thing after using half of it. Now it makes sense for him to get the whole Juubi after using fragments of it.


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## Tony Lou (Apr 20, 2014)

Klue said:


> This panel still fills me with so much joy.



It was beyond my expectations. 

I thought he would get normal rinnegan as everyone had predicted and suddenly BAM, motherfucking legendary Kaguya/Juubi doujutsu.


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## Fiiction (Apr 20, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> He had Hashirama cells pumped into him. Like with Madara, Indra and Asura's chakra became one: that explains the Rinnegan.
> 
> There's a reason why Madara, who can sense people's ocular powers called it the Rinnegan.
> 
> ...



None of this will happen. Why? Because the infinite tsukuyomi will happen regardless if you accept it or not.



Haha enough with that bs, I agree, naruto will get every tailed beast and become the Juubi Jinchuuriki, and to have them equal, sasuke will get another 9 Tomoe Rinnegan in his right eye. Though I do believe that it should stop where it's at right now because naruto and sasuke were equal and just got a power up from Hagoromo himself. Basically meaning each got half, so there's no point for another power up


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## Krippy (Apr 21, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> He had Hashirama cells pumped into him. Like with Madara, Indra and Asura's chakra became one: that explains the Rinnegan.
> 
> There's a reason why Madara, who can sense people's ocular powers called it the Rinnegan.
> 
> "Merit" or not, he got the Rinnegan in the end.



Nope. It's not Hagoromo's power, it's Kaguya's.



The clear-up thread put Rinnegan Sasuke back in the ground where it belongs.

Hagoromo gave him the purest Ying power. Having some modified Hashi cells fix his wound does nothing in the end.

Naruto has Ashura's power now, so Hashi's cells are irrelevant outside of medical ninjutsu.




> I outlined points which allude to it.
> 
> If you rather I answer the question directly: to lead them down the right path. *Before* we saw Naruto return, we could have argued that he would lead them through other means. However we couldn't ignore that they would eventually become one again, as Hagoromo said.
> Now upon his return it is shown, supplemented with a prophecy on the side, how that will happen. Naruto will house all the Bijuu. The fact he has the Truth Seeking Orbs _without_ the Juubi's husk says a lot. It is an indicator that he'll be getting the entire thing.



And when Naruto dies and the Juubi is about to be released then what? will he split up the Bijuu and disperse them like RS did, leading more wars?

The Jin system is flawed. Naruto realizes this so he obviously wont hoard them all in hopes it will stop future wars.



> RS was a Jinchuriki, but he had no problem issuing his Jinchuriki power to another person who is a pseudo Juubi Jinchuriki. The last time Jinchuriki pulled out their chakra from a Juubi Jinchuriki, that chakra got combined with their own. The same thing is going to happen there. Fighting this is like fighting the idea of Rinnegan Sasuke, which too had very similar hints prior its official debut.




Now you're just avoiding the question completely.

*I dont give a darn if Naruto pulls out all the Bijuu. Becoming the Juubi Jin will solve nothing.*

Rinnegan Sasuke never happened and it never will.

Sasuke is Yin and Naruto is Yang. Hagoromo's Rinnegan is the physical manifestation of Yin-Yang in one person. Fighting this simple logic is like arguing against Naruto and Sasuke not having a final fight.





> Naruto obviously has a permanent power up. The Bijuu are already working well with him, it makes no sense to have two separate Bijuu around. Even Kurama, as you acknowledge, will be united with Naruto. So it is pretty obvious that the other Bijuu will be reunited.



Kurama is the only Bijuu that will stick with him for any period of time.



> Unless Kishimoto plans to *depower* Naruto to fight Sasuke, then there is really nothing that stops Juubi Naruto from happening.
> 
> It is similar to Naruto and Kurama, it made sense for him to get the whole thing after using half of it. Now it makes sense for him to get the whole Juubi after using fragments of it.


He'll depower them both once Madara is gone.

No it doesn't, considering he has to find a way to deal with all the Bijuu without becoming a Jin, which is the whole point of the prophecy in the first place.


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## Saturnine (Apr 21, 2014)

Dammit, can't wait til next chapter comes around. This is one of the bigger riddles of the manga, and one introduced so late. I believe Kishimoto will explain this one too, like he explained all the previous ones too.


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## ARGUS (Apr 23, 2014)

I honestly thing that rinnegan and juubi eye are the same

_No new chapter discussion outside of Konoha Telegrams. -*SaiST*_​


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