# Shanks and Mihawk vs Kaido and Big Mom



## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Location: Rooftop

Kaido starts the fight in hybrid mode. Big Mom has all her homies fully charged and her mental state is healthy. She is well fed.

Who wins?


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## B Rabbit (Apr 2, 2021)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 12


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 2, 2021)

S/M high-diff

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

@Seraphoenix @Nighty the Mighty @Doflamingo @Shiba D. Inu @Duhul10 @Fel1x @OniKaido

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

at the moment, the answer is clear. BM or Kaido would never ever be stalemated by Vista in a 1v1 and I mean NEVER. The difficulty should be nothing short of very high though probably, as Shanks is still an unknown. So we probably have something like Kaido > Shanks >=BM> Mihawk.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido > Shanks, Big Mom >= Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

@Shanks

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## blessedboi2 (Apr 2, 2021)

Until I see Kaido tank a hit from Enma 

Mihawk and Shanks high diff

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Corax (Apr 2, 2021)

By feats or story perspective/power creep?By feats Kaido and BM since Mihawk and Shanks barely have any. But they have the luxury to go down much later and peak at insane power creep. So they should win.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Big Mom is a swordsman so that makes her automatically weaker than Mihawk according to the author’s own words.

Meanwhile Shanks defeated Kaido at Marineford so badly that the first thing Kaido thinks off after Luffy hurts him is Shanks.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido and BM high-extreme

Mihawk isn't on Yonko level. so he drags Shanks back

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> BM or Kaido would never ever be stalemated by Vista in a 1v1 and I mean NEVER.


yeah not by Vista the chad
only by ~Chopper/Jinbei/Robin and ~base Luffy

Reactions: Funny 11 | Winner 2


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## trance (Apr 2, 2021)

kaido >= shanks ~ mihawk >= meme

sword dudes edge it

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 2, 2021)

Sword Chads win

Reactions: Agree 4


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> BM or Kaido would never ever be stalemated by Vista in a 1v1 and I mean NEVER.



Jinbei and Robin defeated Big Mom and O-Kiku was able to stab Kaido’s hand and make him scream, at least nobody has actually landed a blow on Mihawk.

Hard to land a blow on the guy with the best CoO in the series, it’s why Oda confirmed in a databook that Mihawk’s title was going to be the Clairvoyant.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 3 | Winner 1 | GODA 1 | Dislike 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Big Mom is a swordsman so that makes her automatically weaker than Mihawk according to the author’s own words.
> 
> Meanwhile Shanks defeated Kaido at Marineford so badly that the first thing Kaido thinks off after Luffy hurts him is Shanks.



big mom smashes YC2s without her sword. Napoleon is a small part of her power ( she has other souls, both at the very least as important as Napoleon ). She is no swordsman as for a swordsman in OP, his/her main strength should be his/her sword.

As for the Shanks/Kaido part, a big lol.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 2, 2021)

a Sovereign combo attack by Shanks + Mihawk would make this one look like a firecracker

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

trance said:


> kaido >= shanks


please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> yeah not by Vista the chad
> only by ~Chopper/Jinbei/Robin and ~base Luffy


Where was full power BM stalemated by those 3 ? Where was full power BM stalemated by base luffy in a 1 vs 1?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> big mom smashes YC2s without her sword.


Queen stood back up with 0 visible damage and KOd her later

Reactions: Winner 2


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## trance (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Jinbei and Robin defeated Big Mom and O-Kiku was able to stab Kaido’s hand and make him scream, at least nobody has actually landed a blow on Mihawk.
> 
> Hard to land a blow on the guy with the best CoO in the series, it’s why Oda confirmed in a databook that Mihawk’s title was going to be the Clairvoyant.



you've been having alot of fun since the chapter dropped

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Alex Payne (Apr 2, 2021)

Imo Kaido would extreme diff either Shanks of Mihawk(as of our current knowledge at least) but BM loses to either around the same extreme diff(probably not as extreme though). So the question lies in who beats who first and then helps his teammate. Giving the edge to Swordsmen because I expect godly CoA mastery from them - which is going to be crucial vs BM. Plus we all know what M stands for in BM.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> *Jinbei and Robin defeated Big Mom* and O-Kiku was able to stab Kaido’s hand and make him scream, at least nobody has actually landed a blow on Mihawk.
> 
> Hard to land a blow on the guy with the best CoO in the series, it’s why Oda confirmed in a databook that Mihawk’s title was going to be the Clairvoyant.


The first bolded better be a joke or I stop taking you seriously on this forum   all they did was push her.
Kaido is the confirmed WSP anyway, he is stronger than all you can consider a pirate, aside from being stronger than Akainu.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## trance (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford



dragon hybrid mode got me hype atm

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Queen stood back up with 0 visible damage and KOd her later


he was ko cold and he only avoided death because she lost interest in her. He then proceeded to attack her when she had no clue about it. That was O-lin btw, a much weaker version of BM, which Queen only managed to wake up. She went to sleep because as we know, she had already stated she was sleepy.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks and Mihawk win this by being a better duo.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford


Kaido is open to discussion, the guy formed an alliance with someone who invaded his territory. Unless we get any info on the matter, there is no such thing as ''Shanks beat Kaido''


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido compared Shanks to Primebeard, Roger, Rocks, and Oden. Kaido didn’t even think of Big Mom because she’s weaker than all of those guys. Kaido also retreating from Shanks after a skirmish is canon. Shanks also made everyone back down. Shanks also clashed equally with a healthy Whitebeard. 

Mihawk also has the best CoA in the series due to turning his blade black, only Ryuuma has been able to do the same feat and he was considered a God for it. And before anyone asks why Roger and Primebeard didn’t have black blades, it’s because their CoA is inferior to Mihawk’s. 

Shanks and Mihawk are by far the strongest characters in One Piece.

Reactions: Creative 1 | GODA 1 | Neutral 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

friendly reminder that BM is a better swordsman than Mihawk:

her noname attack had whole Onigashima range. also she wouldn't be stalemated by Vista. cause she casually grabbed Marco into submission

Midhawk are far from Yonko level. just admit it, my dears

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## Mariko (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford



I already did it, c'mon...



Mariko said:


> More like:
> 
> Kaidou: "Akagami, let me pass or I'll crush you and your crew"
> 
> ...


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Kaido compared Shanks to Primebeard, Roger, Rocks, and Oden. Kaido didn’t even think of Big Mom because she’s weaker than all of those guys. *Kaido also retreating from Shanks after a skirmish is canon*. Shanks also made everyone back down. Shanks also clashed equally with a healthy Whitebeard.
> 
> Mihawk also has the best CoA in the series due to turning his blade black, only Ryuuma has been able to do the same feat and he was considered a God for it. *And before anyone asks why Roger and Primebeard didn’t have black blades, it’s because their CoA is inferior to Mihawk’s*.
> 
> *Shanks and Mihawk are by far the strongest characters in One Piece*.


first bold is false
second bold is false
third bold is false
My friend you hit the jackpot today


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> friendly reminder that BM is a better swordsman than Mihawk:
> 
> her noname attack had whole Onigashima range. also she wouldn't be stalemated by Vista. cause she casually grabbed Marco into submission
> 
> Midhawk are far from Yonko level. just admit it, my dears


Mihawk’s son was literally blocking her sword strikes this chapter.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk’s son was literally blocking her sword strikes this chapter.


How's Vista doing  rent free, boy, rent free


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## Mariko (Apr 2, 2021)

Mariko said:


> I already did it, c'mon...



This option works too:



Mariko said:


> Shanks: "Ace is already ded"
> 
> Kaidou: "See son, I told you we wouldn't make it in time"
> 
> ...


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk’s son was literally blocking her sword strikes this chapter.


his son would be dead if not Law

your attempt has failed, but thanks for trying

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> first bold is false
> second bold is false
> third bold is false
> My friend you hit the jackpot today



how is kaido retreating from shanks at marineford and then later fantasizing about shanks after getting punched by luffy false?

marines said they had a skirmish and that kaido came to kill whitebeard but shanks stopped him


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido is open to discussion, the guy formed an alliance with someone who invaded his territory. Unless we get any info on the matter,* there is no such thing as ''Shanks beat Kaido'*'


oh i know shanks has never beaten anyone.

all he ever has to do is pull out his CD credentials and weak-willed losers like laido run with their tail between their legs.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> oh i know shanks has never beaten anyone.
> 
> all he ever has to do is pull out his CD credentials and weak-willed losers like laido run with their tail between their legs.


this scenario is as probable as the one you've previously considered


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> his son would be dead if not Law
> 
> your attempt has failed, but thanks for trying



his son would be dead from a combined attack from kaido and big mom

we’re talking about big mom’s swordsmanship alone

try to remember your own posts please, it was 30 seconds ago

if mihawk’s son can momentarily block a combined attack, then there is no chance mihawk’s swordsmanship is inferior to big mom

maybe if big mom trains for 2 years under mihawk, then she can be stronger

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

current WSS - BM or Shanks
past WSS - Roger

Mihawk hasn't ever been WSS. only self-proclaimed title. this looks pathetic

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> this scenario is as probable* as the one you've previously considered*


i have never considered any other scenarios.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Mariko (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks team all day, no matter if Mihawk or Usopp.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Brian (Apr 2, 2021)

MIhawk to Shanks: "I'm not interested in teaming up with a one armed man "

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 2, 2021)

Swordsmen destroy those clowns

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> how is kaido retreating from shanks at marineford and then later fantasizing about shanks after getting punched by luffy false?
> 
> marines said they had a skirmish and that kaido came to kill whitebeard but shanks stopped him


How does what you're saying translate into Shanks > Kaido when Kaido is the WSP. A skirmish can mean a single weapon clash.
Also why would've Kaido considered to go to death against Akagami if he wanted to go after WB ? Kaido is not strong enough to smash Shanks and then Smash Deadbeard.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How's Vista doing  rent free, boy, rent free



kaido would be paralyzed with fear if he saw vista, have you seen his track record against swordsmen?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> current WSS - BM or Shanks
> past WSS - Roger
> 
> Mihawk hasn't ever been WSS. only self-proclaimed title. this looks pathetic



Literally denying oda’s words


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

this fight is basically Kaido and BM vs Shanks. because Mihawk is pure non-factor. he is tier or 2 below them

and Hybrid Kaido alone can defeat Shanks


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> i have never considered any other scenarios.


neither is supported by canon soo, consider whatever you want.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> and Hybrid Kaido alone can defeat Shanks



Let him defeat Base Luffy first, then we'll talk about Shanks

Reactions: Funny 8


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## T.D.A (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Location: Rooftop
> 
> Kaido starts the fight in hybrid mode. Big Mom has all her homies fully charged and her mental state is healthy. She is well fed.
> 
> Who wins?



Not even a strength thing, Shanks and Mihawk are just smarter, not to mention haki specialists, and we know haki is the one nullifier of Kaido and Big Mom's DF hax.


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## trance (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> current WSS - BM or Shanks
> past WSS - Roger
> 
> Mihawk hasn't ever been WSS. only self-proclaimed title. this looks pathetic



your trolling to counter ava's trolling plan wont work because ava will just troll harder because that man has no idea what it means to give up

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Literally denying oda’s words


You're far from being the dude to accuse someone of what you're saying


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

This thread just further proves how blind this section is to manga facts and Oda's intentions.

Kaido is the strongest in the world. That's not Mihawk nor Shanks. It's Kaido. He is the strongest pirate. Kid and Killer who were gunning for Shanks and even fought him have said so. 

Kaido and Big Mom have big advantages over Shanks and Mihawk also. They are tougher. Can take a bigger amount of punishment than them. Shanks and Mihawk also don't have devil fruits to help them deal with Big Mom's homies like the [Blocked Domain] did.

Crazy fight but Kaido and Mom edge it because that's what the manga tells us.  I don't care about what Shanks and Mihawk fanboys say. In Oda's manga that's called One Piece, serialized since 1997, Kaido is the strongest with Big Mom following.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks>Mihawk>Big Mom>Kaido

it's simple maths

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

trance said:


> your trolling to counter ava's trolling plan wont work because ava will just troll harder because that man has no idea what it means to give up


trolling? what? i've been saying this for ages

thinking swordsmen can win against Kaido and BM is delusional af


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> She is no swordsman as for a swordsman in OP, his/her main strength should be his/her sword.



Big Mom is a swordsman. So is Fujitora, Kizaru, and Law. All are canonically inferior to Mihawk.

You are aware that Oda called Fujitora a blind swordsman in the databook correct? So Big Mom is no different, she is also a swordsman.

Reactions: Creative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Kaido is the strongest in the world. That's not Mihawk nor Shanks. It's Kaido. He is the strongest pirate.


please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford.

Reactions: Funny 1 | GODA 1 | Dislike 3


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk’s son was literally blocking her sword strikes this chapter.



Mihawk's son would get obliterated if it wasn't for Law teleporting him. Zoro will also solo Mihawk. He can't do shit to Kaido by himself currently, he needs 4 others. Can't you see the difference ?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> *This thread just further proves how blind this section is to manga facts and Oda's intentions*.
> 
> Kaido is the strongest in the world. That's not Mihawk nor Shanks. It's Kaido. He is the strongest pirate. Kid and Killer who were gunning for Shanks and even fought him have said so.
> 
> ...


I know but it makes things funnier when I debate with them


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

trance said:


> your trolling to counter ava's trolling plan wont work because ava will just troll harder because that man has no idea what it means to give up



how is it trolling to think shanks and mihawk are the strongest? Shanks has some of the craziest feats and portrayal in the entire series

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

this thread is a center of attraction for most delusional OLers

based on posts and poll


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford.


He came for WB and got the one armed man  what you believe he could've low diffed shanks and proceed to kill another Yonko afterwards ?


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He came for WB and got the one armed man  what you believe he could've low diffed shanks and proceed to kill another Yonko afterwards ?


i heard you the first time. i want to know what dellinger will say


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford.



Why would Kaido go to MF ? Kaido didn't want to go to MF, he wanted to intercept WB. 

Also explain why Kid and Killer whom both fought Shanks and were gunning for him said that Kaido is the strongest pirate and not Shanks ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2021)

Imagine thinking the team going down this arc is stronger than the team going down next arc

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## trance (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> how is it trolling to think shanks and mihawk are the strongest? Shanks has some of the craziest feats and portrayal in the entire series



understandable. have a nice day


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 2, 2021)

kaido stans working overtime without pay ..

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 4 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Big Mom is a swordsman. So is Fujitora, Kizaru, and Law. All are canonically inferior to Mihawk.
> 
> You are aware that Oda called Fujitora a blind swordsman in the databook correct? So Big Mom is no different, she is also a swordsman.


Oda called Fujitora a swordsman. Did he call BM a swordsman ? No, because if she wants, she can no longer be a ''swordsman'' and give life to another weapon   She is not bound to a sword, like Mihawk is, or Fuji, or Zoro


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Mihawk's son would get obliterated if it wasn't for Law teleporting him. Zoro will also solo Mihawk. He can't do shit to Kaido by himself currently, he needs 4 others. Can't you see the difference ?



Mihawk’s son would only get obliterated from a combined attack, no evidence Big Mom on her own can do anything.

And no, Zoro would get destroyed by Mihawk. And what do you mean Zoro can’t do shit to Kaido? It was literally Zoro who forced Kaido into hybrid. Zoro alone has performed better than the 9 scabbards combined. That’s what a 2 year training session with the WSS gets you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Imagine thinking the team going down this arc is stronger than the team going down next arc



Kaido is going down to multiple guys, Mihawk will lose to Zoro in a 1 on 1 fight.... Like seriously.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Why would Kaido go to MF ? *Kaido didn't want to go to MF, *he wanted to intercept WB.


ok. i haven't heard this one before. we'll see how close to the truth it is


Dellinger said:


> Also explain why Kid and Killer whom both fought Shanks and were gunning for him said that Kaido is the strongest pirate and not Shanks ?


i'm not explaining anything since i didn't make any statements about any character's strength in this thread.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> i heard you the first time. i want to know what dellinger will say


Repetition is the mother of learning.


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Mihawk’s son would only get obliterated from a combined attack, no evidence Big Mom on her own can do anything.
> 
> And no, Zoro would get destroyed by Mihawk. And what do you mean Zoro can’t do shit to Kaido? It was literally Zoro who forced Kaido into hybrid. Zoro alone has performed better than the 9 scabbards combined. That’s what a 2 year training session with the WSS gets you.



Can you stop trolling ? 

Zoro was already beaten prior to the combined attack and was wondering how they could win.  Also everyone forced Kaido into hybrid not just Zoro. the cut Zoro delivered on Kaido isn't even relevant.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

No evidence Kidd or Killer even met Shanks. That mirror wielding woman who’s name I forgot said none of the [Blocked Domain] even made it to Big Mom. So why would you assume Kidd and Killer even met Shanks?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> *Mihawk’s son would only get obliterated from a combined attack, no evidence Big Mom on her own can do anything.
> 
> And no, Zoro would get destroyed by Mihawk*. And what do you mean Zoro can’t do shit to Kaido? It was literally Zoro who forced Kaido into hybrid. Zoro alone has performed better than the 9 scabbards combined. That’s what a 2 year training session with the WSS gets you.


@A Optimistic is going full head canon on this one. The guy just went ''all in''


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## Nighty the Mighty (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Can you stop trolling ?
> 
> Zoro was already beaten prior to the combined attack and was wondering how they could win.  Also everyone forced Kaido into hybrid not just Zoro. the cut Zoro delivered on Kaido isn't even relevant.


I wonder what would have happened if Big Mom didn't tell him to dodge the horn cutter?

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Draco Bolton (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido & BM uses Ocean Sovereignty.

Shanks/Mihawk clearly survives but Shanks is so triggered & furious to be attacked by a fish he lost his cool and finally his haki is weakened (same way than Kata post merienda but X10).

Kaido/BM take advantage of this to defeat him.

Meanwhile Mihawk fight Napoleon in a personal issue

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

it's just the same faces are downplaying Kaido every week

one "face" is mostly only making anti-Kaido posts in this forum and always childishly calling him laido which is pathetic. I saw people get banned for far less


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford.



Because he knew even if he beat Shanks, him and his crew would be so wounded he would just be at the mercy of the WG when he got there.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> ok. i haven't heard this one before. we'll see how close to the truth it is
> 
> i'm not explaining anything since i didn't make any statements about any character's strength in this thread.



Kaido and Shanks clashed a day prior to the war in the new world.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Can you stop trolling ?
> 
> Zoro was already beaten prior to the combined attack and was wondering how they could win.  Also everyone forced Kaido into hybrid not just Zoro. the cut Zoro delivered on Kaido isn't even relevant.



Someone disagreeing with you is not trolling. Do you see me accusing you, duhul, felix, ect of trolling just because I disagree with everything you say?



Yes obviously 2 Yonko > Rooftop 5, who’s denying this? Nothing wrong with Zoro questioning how they will win. My point was if Zoro can momentarily stop a combined a combined attack, then Zoro’s master can deal with any sword attack from Big Mom alone.

And what do you mean Zoro’s attack was not relevant? Kaido went into hybrid after Zoro overpowered his tornado and sliced him. Did Kaido consider going hybrid after Luffy attacked him? No. Did he consider it after the Scabbards attacked him? No. He only considered it after Zoro embarrassed him.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Because he knew even if he beat Shanks, him and his crew would be *so wounded he would just be at the mercy of the WG when he got there.*


and how is that an undesirable outcome, exactly? i thought he _wanted_ to die?



or are you saying the WG would have fed him chicken noodle soup?


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> No evidence Kidd or Killer even met Shanks. That mirror wielding woman who’s name I forgot said none of the [Blocked Domain] even made it to Big Mom. So why would you assume Kidd and Killer even met Shanks?



Kid lost his arm in an encounter against the Red Hair pirates. I think Kid would at least get to know something since that made him gun after him. He still said that Kaido is stronger.

The OL knows better than Kid, Killer, the narrator and Oda. Go figure.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Because he knew even if he beat Shanks, him and his crew would be so wounded he would just be at the mercy of the WG when he got there.



So going by that logic, why was he going after Whitebeard if he would have been at the mercy of the WG after?


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Someone disagreeing with you is not trolling. Do you see me accusing you, duhul, felix, ect of trolling just because I disagree with everything you say?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What ? Kaido instantly overpowered Zoro's tatsumaki after that. He also didn't comment on Zoro himself. He only made a comment about Enma. Imagine being embarrassed by that.

Also why are you acting like Big Mom only swings a sword ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Etherborn (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks sends Kaido running with his dragon tail between his legs just like he did before Marineford.

And Big Mom might as well jump into the ocean if Mihawk even glances in her direction, save him the trouble.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 5 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Kid lost his arm in an encounter against the Red Hair pirates. I think Kid would at least get to know something since that made him gun after him. He still said that Kaido is stronger.
> 
> The OL knows better than Kid, Killer, the narrator and Oda. Go figure.


The RHP also have a single a ship iirc, so the chances of not meeting Shanks were so low. 
Kaido is the WSP, this should be clear as ice as of now.


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> So going by that logic, why was he going after Whitebeard if he would have been at the mercy of the WG after?



Do you guys read the manga ?

Kaido wanted to intercept WB before going to MF in the NW. He thought he would be vulnerable. Kaido wasn't going to MF.


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

I guess the majority are voting for sword duo only because Oda can't really portray Kaido+BM vs SNs fair, cause if Yonko due really acts, there is no hope for RT5

another reason is swordsmen propaganda in OL. weak minds are usually dragged into some forced idea

but Kaido and BM vs Shanks and Mihawk is far more even fight. Yonko duo would start seriosly, they won't soak damage, they won't just stand there, Kaido wouldn't go into Dragon form and so on

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Kid lost his arm in an encounter against the Red Hair pirates. I think Kid would at least get to know something since that made him gun after him. He still said that Kaido is stronger.
> 
> The OL knows better than Kid, Killer, the narrator and Oda. Go figure.



I don’t understand how you can be a major Yonko supporter, but also somehow think that Kidd cut his way through the Red Hair pirates and made it to Shanks himself.

Either Kidd is no match for a Yonko crew and never made it to Shanks or the Yonko suck and Kidd cut his way through Shanks entire crew until he faced Shanks in a 1v1 and lost his arm, which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

And the irony of your last sentence while you, felix, and duhul ignore Mihawk’s title.


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

Etherborn said:


> Shanks sends Kaido running with his dragon tail between his legs just like he did before Marineford.
> 
> And Big Mom might as well jump into the ocean if Mihawk even glances in her direction, save him the trouble.


nice post from moderator. you are doing your job extremely good

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Imagine people saying team 1 wins when one lost his arm to a fodder east blue monster ( a Ragnarok would hurt even current Shanks horribly ) and another one postponed a fight with a YC3/2.
All this when in the other team you have the WSP and an indestructible monster   The more posts I read, the better I feel about myself.


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## Spiegel (Apr 2, 2021)

Big Mom is past her prime. Kaidou is still in his but at this point, Mihawk and Shanks are right in the middle of theirs. They've fought each other on multiple occasions. They know each other's tendencies. I'd rank their haki greater than Kaidou and Big Mom's given that they are top tiers without devil fruits. They are indeed the epitome of haki mastery. And another thing, they're extremely lethal since they are swordsman.

I have them edging out the two just because Big Mom is not in her prime.


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> So going by that logic, why was he going after Whitebeard if he would have been at the mercy of the WG after?



Probobly because going in with his full power the WG and WB wouldn't be a threat after they beat each other up enough.

Limping in after he deals with Shanks crew is a different story, at that point he's just another wounded dog in the scrap.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Imagine people saying team 1 wins when one lost his arm to a fodder east blue monster ( a Ragnarok would hurt even current Shanks horribly ) and another one postponed a fight with a YC3/2.
> All this when in the other team you have the WSP and an indestructible monster   The more posts I read, the better I feel about myself.




You can’t make fun of Shanks while also defending Kaido because the first thing Kaido thinks off when Luffy punches him is Shanks.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Because going in with his full power the WG and WB wouldn't be a threat after they beat each other up enough.
> 
> Limping in after he deals with Shanks crew is a different story, at that point he's just another wounded dog in the scrap.



he was not trying to come to whitebeard after the war bro. He wanted a fresh whitebeard before the war statted


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You can’t make fun of Shanks while also defending Kaido because the first thing Kaido thinks off when Luffy punches him is Shanks.


Shanks is someone who can fight Kaido. Wow, that definitely means he destroys Kaido


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> he was not trying to come to whitebeard after the war bro. He wanted a fresh whitebeard before the war statted



Fair enough, then I am not seeing your point at all.

He thinks he can take on WB.  He doesn't think he can take on Shanks and then WB immediately after.

That seams like sound reasoning to me.


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## Dellinger (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I don’t understand how you can be a major Yonko supporter, but also somehow think that Kidd cut his way through the Red Hair pirates and made it to Shanks himself.
> 
> Either Kidd is no match for a Yonko crew and never made it to Shanks or the Yonko suck and Kidd cut his way through Shanks entire crew until he faced Shanks in a 1v1 and lost his arm, which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
> 
> And the irony of your last sentence while you, felix, and duhul ignore Mihawk’s title.



WB fought with Crocodile, does that mean that Crocodile beat the other commanders and made it to him ? What kind of logic is that ?

Also why should I care about Mihawk's title ? it's irrelevant to both Kaido and Big Mom. Kaido uses a club, Big Mom aside from swinging a sword, she also rains fire and thunder down.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Shanks is someone who can fight Kaido. Wow, that definitely means he destroys Kaido



it means kaido thinks hes stronger than meme at the bare minimum

which he is, shes the weakest yonko by far

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> @Seraphoenix @Nighty the Mighty @Doflamingo @Shiba D. Inu @Duhul10 @Fel1x @OniKaido


Shanks and Mihawk win.

Kaido extreme diffs Shanks

Mihawk very high diffs BM.

The less injured Mihawk beats Kaido high diff.

If it was plain 1vs1s with recovery time it'd go like this though.

Kaido extreme diffs Shanks. Heals up.

Mihawk very high diffs BM, Heals up.

Kaido extreme diffs Mihawk but loses a limb or two.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> which he is, shes the weakest yonko by far


source?


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> it means kaido thinks hes stronger than meme at the bare minimum
> 
> which he is, shes the weakest yonko by far


BM was next to him, why would she appear in his mind when she actually was next to him ? Shanks may be above BM, don't say he can't be.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> BM was next to him, why would she appear in his mind when she actually was next to him ?



this is cope

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> The less injured Mihawk beats Kaido high diff.



less injured durable zoan with recovery rate close to Marco
yeah, nice fanfic


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## Geralt-Singh (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks already off paneled Kaido and came out unscathed at MF
Kaido >> Big Mom
Mihawk ~ Shanks 
Mihawk >> Big Mom

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> and how is that an undesirable outcome, exactly? i thought he _wanted_ to die?
> 
> 
> 
> or are you saying the WG would have fed him chicken noodle soup?



We have no idea what the reason is behind his wish to die is right now.  Or really much of his backstory at all.  If he really wanted to I am sure he could have just flown into Mary Geoise or the Marine HQ by himself years ago and tried to take on all the admirals at once and been done with it.  Something else is going on.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> less injured durable zoan with recovery rate close to Marco
> yeah, nice fanfic


Adcoa3 hurts him more than anything else, i wouldn't be surprised if it hampered his recovery somewhat.

Then Mihawk specialized in blocking/Dodging, i think he would take less hits than BM in their fight.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> Also why should I care about Mihawk's title ? it's irrelevant to both Kaido and Big Mom. Kaido uses a club, Big Mom aside from swinging a sword, she also rains fire and thunder down.



We have a manga statement from Crocodile himself that Whitebeard personally kicked his ass. We have no statement from Kidd or Killer indicating that they personally fought Shanks, you are only assuming that happened because you want to hype up Kaido. All we know is that Kidd got his ass kicked by the Red Hair Pirates, we were not told which Red Hair. Until Kidd or Killer outright say it was Shanks personally then you’re just assuming.

As for why you should care about Mihawk’s title, well it’s your side who’s saying the authors words are being ignored, right? Fujitora uses gravity and is still called a swordsman by Oda so no reason Big Mom isn’t a swordsman as well. I agree Kaido is a clubman and I never put Mihawk’s title as a reason he’s above Kaido.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

girafarig said:


> please explain why laido didn't make it to marineford


I'll explain it to you like you're 3.


Given that top tier crew are relative to each other, say you're one of them and decide to go to this island to fight a war that you know might not last too long. On the way there you get stopped by another top tier crew, now you are presented with a choice: You fight your way through and it would take at the very least a day but surely more. And by then the war you so wanted to participate in would be over.

Thus you decide that its not worth the trouble and leave.

I hope it made sense for you man.


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## Mihawk (Apr 2, 2021)

Man LIT thread. @A Optimistic doesn't disappoint. 

OT: Shanks & Mihawk win, it could be extreme-diff, but they win. _
_
Luffy & Zoro's personal heroes & benchmarks aren't going to be inferior to Big Mong & Kiddo. Oda definitely favours the former in terms of treating them as characters with respect, rather than incompetence or arrogance. Shanks & Mihawk also aren't the type to underestimate their enemies, and have solidified themselves at the top of this era and in folklore. 

Both of them are characters that Oda has saved and invested in for 20 years, while Kaido & Big Mom are major obstacles to be overcome in the present. The 2 Yonko are near invincible monsters in their own right, but I'm taking the man who inherited Roger's legacy, trained under Rayleigh, clashed equally with Whitebeard, and inspired Luffy to start his journey decades ago, as well as the man who was his equal, holds the WSS title, and the apex of what Zoro aims to be. 

The Rocks Yonko are still near the pinnacle of what the story has to offer, and will display more impressive feats in the immediate future; but I think Shanks & Mihawk stand at the very top right now, along with guys like Akainu and Blackbeard, very soon. They are also considerably younger than Big Mom or Kaido too, with Shanks becoming a Yonko when he was only 33 years old. They might not be as durable as BM/Kaido, but they are closer to their prime and likely possess more skill in battle by virtue of not having devil fruits and top tier Haki above them. The Admirals prove that you don't need Kaido-like durability to compete with the Yonko. I think that Shanks and Mihawk are the same in that regard.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 4 | Friendly 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> We have a manga statement from Crocodile himself that Whitebeard personally kicked his ass. We have no statement from Kidd or Killer indicating that they personally fought Shanks, you are only assuming that happened because you want to hype up Kaido. All we know is that Kidd got his ass kicked by the Red Hair Pirates, we were not told which Red Hair. Until Kidd or Killer outright say it was Shanks personally then you’re just assuming.
> 
> As for why you should care about Mihawk’s title, well it’s your side who’s saying the authors words are being ignored, right? Fujitora uses gravity and is still called a swordsman by Oda so no reason Big Mom isn’t a swordsman as well. I agree Kaido is a clubman and I never put Mihawk’s title as a reason he’s above Kaido.


Though i know you place Kaido as above Mihawk, its just really funny to see the double standard when it comes to Mihawk's title and some Yonko fans.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Man LIT thread. @A Optimistic doesn't disappoint.
> 
> OT: Shanks & Mihawk win, it could be extreme-diff, but they win.
> 
> ...


I said they win too but i disagree on the notion that either two are stronger than Kaido, until proven otherwise. That bracket is very very close in power to each other and its extreme diff but by statements and feats and hype Kaido is a bit over them.


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

@A Optimistic anyways i answered the matchup for you a bit above bro. Good thread.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Useful 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> this is cope


this is logic. I mean it should be common sense.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

what’s the point of being a natural born monster with a hax fruit if a one armed cripple is still gonna be superior to you?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> Shanks and Mihawk win.
> 
> *Kaido extreme diffs Shanks*
> 
> ...


Lmao.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s the point of being a natural born monster with a hax fruit if a one armed cripple is still gonna be superior to you?


the point is for him not to be. Which actually might be true


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Lmao.


I take it you disagree?


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Also guys give it a rest BM is a swordsman and Mihawk is the WSS. There is no universe in which BM wins.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

2021 People still think Kaido is beating Shanks.

Ooff.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> this is logic. I mean it should be common sense.



You’re talking about logic while also ignoring that a swordsman much weaker than both Shanks and Mihawk was able to overpower Kaido’s tornado, force Kaido into hybrid, and momentarily block Hakai?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> 2021 People still think Kaido is beating Shanks.
> 
> Ooff.


Why wouldn't he? Did anything change?

I'd like to hear your reasoning.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Apr 2, 2021)

Wow the pace in this thread is bonkers

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Doflamingo said:


> Wow the pace in this thread is bonkers


It's a hot topic.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> I take it you disagree?


Strongly, I don't see a scenario where Kaido beats Shanks. Considering he prevented Kaido from coming to MF and Kaido doesn't seem to be most diplomatic person.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> the point is for him not to be. Which actually might be true



Uh huh. Even Shanks crew is portrayed as superior. You see how the Marines comment about how the Red Hairs are impregnable?

No similar praise was given to the Rocks duo.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

The guy posted a poll as if Shanks and Mihawk do not have the biggest Fanbases out of all top tiers and BM the smallest. 


A Optimistic said:


> You’re talking about logic while also ignoring that a swordsman much weaker than both Shanks and Mihawk was able to overpower Kaido’s tornado, force Kaido into hybrid, and momentarily block Hakai?


Zoro would be destroyed by Kaido so I do not get your point. So what if enma worked against Kaido's weakest form ? 
Also lol'd at much weaker, how do you know how much weaker Zoro is ? The guy gets a 1v1 against Mihawk in 2 arcs maybe ? Now he'll fight with many allies against Kaido.


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## El Hit (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The guy posted a poll as if Shanks and Mihawk do not have the biggest Fanbases out of all top tiers and BM the smallest.
> 
> Zoro would be destroyed by Kaido so I do not get your point. So what if enma worked against Kaido's weakest form ?
> Also lol'd at much weaker, how do you know how much weaker Zoro is ? The guy gets a 1v1 against Mihawk in 2 arcs maybe ? Now he'll fight with many allies against Kaido.


Luffy is making Kaido dodge in base and you think his power will be relevant in 2 arcs kek.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> *Strongly, I don't see a scenario where Kaido beats Shanks. Considering he prevented Kaido from coming to MF and Kaido doesn't seem to be most diplomatic person.*


Bold is false, basically all. 
Shanks was unscathed, at best they had a skirmish. There was no reason for Kaido to go for a prolongued battle against the RHP ( because it wasn't only shanks ). He wouldn't have made it in time to get to WB before he reached MF.


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Strongly, I don't see a scenario where Kaido beats Shanks. Considering he prevented Kaido from coming to MF and Kaido doesn't seem to be most diplomatic person.


Kaido has been shown to be dipllomatic actually he was fighting BM and she was the one that suggested the alliance and he accepted it. He also was shown to be smart and cunning, idk where you got the Kaido isn't a diplomatic person tbh. He may not be the as diplomatic as Shanks but he isn't dumb you know.

And again, we know nothing of what happened there, except there was a scuffle/clash. That's it.

But hey man, i'm not trying to change your opinion, i just thought you had something more than that.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> The guy posted a poll as if Shanks and Mihawk do not have the biggest Fanbases out of all top tiers and BM the smallest.
> 
> Zoro would be destroyed by Kaido so I do not get your point. So what if enma worked against Kaido's weakest form ?
> Also lol'd at much weaker, how do you know how much weaker Zoro is ? The guy gets a 1v1 against Mihawk in 2 arcs maybe ? Now he'll fight with many allies against Kaido.



Destroyed by Kaido? Zoro is stronger than dragon Kaido. Boro breath doesn’t work. Zoro already blocked his wind scythe, defeated his tornado, and forced Kaido into hybrid. Kaido needs hybrid to beat Zoro.

And yes Zoro is much weaker than Mihawk. He still has to make his blades black, fight Shiryuu, defeat an Admiral during the Final War, and only after all those future power ups takes place can Zoro have a fight with Mihawk at the end where he barely wins.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Luffy is making Kaido dodge in base and you think his power will be relevant in 2 arcs kek.


so what if he dodged  current Luffy would make other top tiers spit their guts after some attacks if they do not dodge.


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

El Hit said:


> Luffy is making Kaido dodge in base and you think his power will be relevant in 2 arcs kek.


Luffy is a low top tier at the moment , his base improved significantly with the training and the ongoing fight. He also isn't reallly in base as he's using his gears but only on certain parts of his body. And finally, Kaido has been taking hits from G4 Ryou Luffy+ the Sns+ the Scabbards.

That he decided to dodge now aftet 20+ chapters of taking hits from everyone and their mother is a testament that Luffy is getting stronger and that Kaido is starting to feel the toll of all those hits.

As Luffy himself said last chapter : They are still humans and those hits will ramp up.


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> what’s the point of being a natural born monster with a hax fruit if a one armed cripple is still gonna be superior to you?



I think you make a very convincing argument for Kaido > Shanks.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Destroyed by Kaido? *Zoro is stronger than dragon Kaido. Boro breath doesn’t work. Zoro already blocked his wind scythe, and defeated his tornado. Kaido needs hybrid to beat Zoro*.
> 
> *And yes Zoro is much weaker than Mihawk*. He still has to make his blades black, fight Shiryuu, defeat an Admiral during the Final War, and only after all those future power ups takes place can Zoro have a fight with Mihawk at the end where he barely wins.


We stop here, wtf   You're dellusional. I am not used to stating the obvious in most instances, but this is the dumbest sh*t I've heard in 2021 here.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Bold is false, basically all.
> Shanks was unscathed, at best they had a skirmish. There was no reason for Kaido to go for a prolongued battle against the RHP ( because it wasn't only shanks ). He wouldn't have made it in time to get to WB before he reached MF.


So let me get this straight. Kaido wants to go to MF for what is essentially a glorious death battle. But when presented with a glorious battle against the RHP, he opts to pussy out and go back home,because fighting Shanks isn't worth it?

Sounds like Cap to me.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> We stop here, wtf   You're dellusional. I am not used to stating the obvious in most instances, but this is the dumbest sh*t I've heard in 2021 here.



You talk a lot of shit but you can’t back it up with feats. Explain exactly what dragon Kaido can do to Zoro. Boro Breath won’t work. The tornado won’t work. The wind scythes won’t work. Zoro can cut dragon Kaido.

Explain how dragon Kaido wins instead of just running your mouth.


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## Karma (Apr 2, 2021)

Sword bros take the W

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> So let me get this straight. Kaido wants to go to MF for what is essentially a glorious death battle. But when presented with a glorious battle against the RHP, he opts to pussy out and go back home,because fighting Shanks isn't worth it?
> 
> Sounds like Cap to me.


What would it have been glorious in fighting the RHP ? WB died against the whole Might of the Marines and Shicibukai for his son.


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Destroyed by Kaido? Zoro is stronger than dragon Kaido. Boro breath doesn’t work. Zoro already blocked his wind scythe, defeated his tornado, and forced Kaido into hybrid. Kaido needs hybrid to beat Zoro.



Raizo beat boro breath and dodged wind scythe.  We've known for a while now that Dragon Kaido is his joke form.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Raizo beat boro breath and dodged wind scythe.  We've known for a while now that Dragon Kaido is his joke form.



Then I don’t see what’s Duhul’s issue with Zoro > dragon Kaido and hybrid Kaido > Zoro.

That being said, Zoro performed better than the Scabbards. Kaido called them all weak meanwhile Zoro made him go hybrid.


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## Kylo Ren (Apr 2, 2021)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Karma (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Then I don’t see what’s Duhul’s issue with Zoro > dragon Kaido and hybrid Kaido > Zoro.


Mans intered a fight or flight state, hes denying anything that can be interpreted as an attack on Kaido

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido fans: the author made is clear kaido is the strongest

also kaido fans: vista, zoro, and big mom are stronger than the WSS

Are we listening to the author or not gentlemen

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> Kaido has been shown to be dipllomatic actually he was fighting BM and she was the one that suggested the alliance and he accepted it. He also was shown to be smart and cunning, idk where you got the Kaido isn't a diplomatic person tbh. He may not be the as diplomatic as Shanks but he isn't dumb you know.
> 
> And again, we know nothing of what happened there, except there was a scuffle/clash. That's it.
> 
> But hey man, i'm not trying to change your opinion, i just thought you had something more than that.




His intent when going to MF was going to a war that the world would hear about. What possible diplomatic solution could they have come to that he would back off without fighting? 

You're also comparing old war buddies, who had a brother/sister relationship, to two people who have been enemies since Rocks,  further decreasing the chance that things were solved amicably. 

In addition to this Kaido puts Shanks on the highest pedigree of pirate. All of the five pirates he compared to Luffy can beat kaido handily. Yes prime Oden would beat Kaido. 

Lastly why would Kaido allow Shanks the glory of stopping the MF war, when we know he's a glory seeker?

None of this adds up to Kaido being stronger than Shanks imo.

At best it's a 50/50.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Then I don’t see what’s Duhul’s issue with *Zoro > dragon Kaido* and hybrid Kaido > Zoro.
> 
> That being said, Zoro performed better than the Scabbards. Kaido called them all weak meanwhile *Zoro made him go hybrid*.


All made him go hybrid. Zoro didn't even give Kaido most damage, not even close.

Dragon Kaido outlasts Zoro hard, apart from the fact that Zoro can't dodge infinitely. Enma allows Zoro to hurt Kaido, but Kaido can also dodge if he needs to. You take Zoro's feats from what was basically a 5vs1 ( Bm only support, they barely attacked her when Kaido was in dragon mode ) and give them to Zoro for a 1v1 where Kaido only has to look at him. Come on, this is too much even for you  



A Optimistic said:


> Kaido fans: the author made is clear kaido is the strongest
> 
> also kaido fans: vista, zoro, and big mom are stronger than the WSS
> 
> Are we listening to the author or not gentlemen


Vista is not stronger than Mihawk, but he can push him, which is pityful for the WSS, Zoro is probably not as strong yet, but we can't tell what the difference is, BM is no swordsman, she can throw away Napoleon, take a spear and make it a new homie. She is not dependent on her sword.


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## Fujitora (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> His intent when going to MF was going to a war that the world would hear about. What possible diplomatic solution could they have come to that he would back off without fighting?
> 
> You're also comparing old war buddies, who had a brother/sister relationship, to two people who have been enemies since Rocks,  further decreasing the chance that things were solved amicably.
> 
> ...


I just told you why though, he wanted to go to MF, someone as strong as him popped up with his crew. If he wanted to fight his way through it would take a day bare minimum and possibly way more. The war then would be finished anyways and he wouldn't have gotten anything out of this, thus he backed off.

It makes complete sense to me.


Prime Oden would not beat Kaido i am sorry, and he said that those people can fight him and he put Rocks in there ( he was an apprentice then) and Roger and Primebeard. Do you know what that means? He's comparing Rocks and Prime Roger/Beard to his Prime self which is current.

Why would he think about Rocks otherwise?


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> What would it have been glorious in fighting the RHP ? WB died against the whole Might of the Marines and Shicibukai for his son.


 You don't think wiping out an entire Yonko crew, basically becoming one massive step closer to becoming Pk  isn't a glorious enough reason to try and take out Shanks right there and then?He instead backed down because it wasn't glorious enough ? 

Or is it more likely to Kaido pulled a Dofla vs Aokiji, 'I'm not intrested in fighting you moment , after a skirmish with Shanks and was like fuck this shit I'm out, better luck next time. 

I'm thinking the latter.


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## Bernkastel (Apr 2, 2021)

Feat-wise the swordsmen are lacking severely.
Even going by hype Kaido is the WSC meaning he's > either of them.
It's basically Kaido >= BM ~ Mihawk ~ Shanks.
Anyway, I think a fight like this will really depend on even the smallest details...any team could end up as winners and it would be an extreme diff fight ...even the slightest distraction/mishap/slip up could decide the fight.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> All made him go hybrid. Zoro didn't even give Kaido most damage, not even close.
> 
> Dragon Kaido outlasts Zoro hard, apart from the fact that Zoro can't dodge infinitely. Enma allows Zoro to hurt Kaido, but Kaido can also dodge if he needs to. You take Zoro's feats from what was basically a 5vs1 ( Bm only support, they barely attacked her when Kaido was in dragon mode ) and give them to Zoro for a 1v1 where Kaido only has to look at him. Come on, this is too much even for you



No, “all” did not make him go hybrid. Kaido did not consider going hybrid fighting the Scabbards. He did not consider going hybrid when Luffy was punching him a million times. He only went hybrid because of Zoro.

And what do you mean Zoro can’t dodge forever? What does Zoro even need to dodge? Zoro can cut Boro breath. Zoro casually blocked the wind scythe. Zoro overpowered the tornado. Zoro does not need to block anything because there’s nothing dragon Kaido can do to him. Why are you denying the manga?

Here’s how a Zoro and Kaido 1v1 goes. Zoro cuts boro breath, then he blocks the wind scythe, then he overpowers the tornado, then he cuts kaido, then Kaido gets scared and goes hybrid. Then hybrid Kaido kicks Zoro’s ass. The end. Nothing more, nothing less.



Duhul10 said:


> BM is no swordsman



please explain to the class how big mom helped kaido create hakai.


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## Dunno (Apr 2, 2021)

If Big Mom gets normal level intelligence, the the swordsman duo needs high diff to win. If she retains the level of intelligence she's displayed in the manga, she gets taken out somehow in after a few minutes, and then the Sword-Bros low diff Kaido.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Then I don’t see what’s Duhul’s issue with Zoro > dragon Kaido and hybrid Kaido > Zoro.
> 
> That being said, Zoro performed better than the Scabbards. Kaido called them all weak meanwhile Zoro made him go hybrid.



That's because Kidd, Law, and Killer had already beaten up his more powerful human form.  All them working together against the dragon form just made him laugh that it was getting fun.


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## January (Apr 2, 2021)

Is this the mother of all tier threads.  


All abroad the flagship thread


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> That's because Kidd, Law, and Killer had already beaten up his more powerful human form.



No they didn’t. Killer’s attack didn’t make Kaido’s neck bleed. And human Kaido did not feel Law’s rocks and whatever Kidd did.


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> No they didn’t. Killer’s attack didn’t make Kaido’s neck bleed. And human Kaido did not feel Law’s rocks and whatever Kidd did.



So Oda drew the big panel of them all working together for the big attack, then Kaido going into his dragon form right afterwards, because it didn't do anything?  You're really grasping here, just cause your boy Zoro wasn't involved in the attack, how sad.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> So Oda drew the big panel of them all working together for the big attack, then Kaido going into his dragon form right afterwards, because it didn't do anything?  You're really grasping here, just cause your boy Zoro wasn't involved in the attack, how sad.



You are aware that the dragon was shown to have zero damage after they attacked right? Burden of proof is in you. Show a panel of them damaging human Kaido. You’re making baseless claims again.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

And I like how you ignored my statement of Killer not making human Kaido’s neck bleed when he tried decapitating him


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You are aware that the dragon was shown to have zero damage after they attacked right? Burden of proof is in you. Show a panel of them damaging human Kaido. You’re making baseless claims again.



The only damage I've seen carry over between forms was Oden's hit.  Why would an attack on his human form carry over to his dragon one?  Zoro's hits didn't transfer either.



A Optimistic said:


> And I like how you ignored my statement of Killer not making human Kaido’s neck bleed when he tried decapitating him



I had mentioned Killer in error and didn't even notice.  I meant Luffy, Law and Kidd.  That's why I was talking about the big group panel.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> You don't think wiping out an entire Yonko crew, basically becoming one massive step closer to becoming Pk  isn't a glorious enough reason to try and take out Shanks right there and then?He instead backed down because it wasn't glorious enough ?
> 
> Or is it more likely to Kaido pulled a Dofla vs Aokiji, 'I'm not intrested in fighting you moment , after a skirmish with Shanks and was like fuck this shit I'm out, better luck next time.
> 
> I'm thinking the latter.


Kaido was going for WB and he now had to face the RHP. Why would he do that ? I mean what would be the logic ? If your eyes are on one guy, why would you suddenly change your plan ? They had a skirmish at best and Kaido probably left realizing that there was no chance he will kill WB after fighting the RHP ( he would've been both weakened and late ).


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> please explain to the class how big mom helped kaido create hakai.


by using her homie, which happens to be a sword, one of her homies. Kaido did it with a club, so you don't need a sword necessarily.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> The only damage I've seen carry over between forms was Oden's hit.  Why would an attack on his human form carry over to his dragon one?  Zoro's hits didn't transfer either.



We saw a clear indication that Zoro’s hit did damage though. And how do you know it didn’t carry over immediatly? Time went by between Kaido transforming to hybrid and us going back to the fight and we know he regenerates. Either way, Burden of proof is on you. Show evidence that they hurt human Kaido or take the “beat up human kaido” fanfiction somewhere else.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

OniKaido said:


> I just told you why though, he wanted to go to MF, someone as strong as him popped up with his crew. If he wanted to fight his way through it would take a day bare minimum and possibly way more. The war then would be finished anyways and he wouldn't have gotten anything out of this, thus he backed off.
> 
> It makes complete sense to me.
> 
> ...


What makes the fight between two yonko less important than a fight with the marines? 

If the opportunity to beat Shanks with extreme diff is there why not take it? It would have been a different agurement if it was about Kaido invading Shank's territory, but they are in a neutral territory with the supposedly stronger Kaido clashing with Shanks.  

Why would he give up that chance just because of MF? Unless you think Kaido is a coward who's only going to MF because he thinks the war there will be easier than a war with Shanks. Doesn't bode well for him either way.

I don't see that panel as anything else but Kaido comparing Shanks to the strongest Pirates in the verse. That includes prime Oden. It's clear Oda has a hard on for that character. I don't know what to say sorry lol.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> by using her homie, which happens to be a sword, one of her homies. Kaido did it with a club, so you don't need a sword necessarily.



I didn’t say you need a sword. Her sword is a homie. She fights with a sword. Shes a swordsman. Denying canon isn’t cute.

Big Mom is as much of a swordsman as Fujitora is, and Oda called Fujitora a swordsman in the databook. Both are confirmed weaker than Mihawk.

If you want people to take Kaido’s rumoured title seriously, try taking Mihawk’s confirmed title seriously.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 2, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido was going for WB and he now had to face the RHP. Why would he do that ? I mean what would be the logic ? If your eyes are on one guy, why would you suddenly change your plan ? They had a skirmish at best and Kaido probably left realizing that there was no chance he will kill WB after fighting the RHP ( he would've been both weakened and late ).


 
Okay Kaido is a dumbass who can't dynamically change his plans when the opportunity presents itself. Gotcha. 

Lmao who cares about WB if he kills Shanks? You're acting like the only option is to beat Shanks and then continue going to MF, instead of going back to Onigashima with his prize.


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## Draffut (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> We saw a clear indication that Zoro’s hit did damage though. And how do you know it didn’t carry over immediatly? Time went by between Kaido transforming to hybrid and us going back to the fight and we know he regenerates. Either way, Burden of proof is on you. Show evidence that they hurt human Kaido or take the “beat up human kaido” fanfiction somewhere else.



He regenerates now? When did that happen?

Why would he bother transforming if they didn't hurt him in that combo attack? We've already seen Luffy hurt him, and even mentioned again he can this chapter.

The scabbards made dragon Kaido bleed as much as Zoro did, and he said they didn't even actually hurt him.  So I guess those Zoro attacks on the dragon did 0 damage, since it was equivalent to the scabbards declared no damage.  He just transformed for fun there too!

It's one way or the other.  He's either transforming when he gets hurt and wants to try a new tactic, or he's just doing it all just for fun.  Your desperate level of logic trying to excuse one one way and the other the opposite is hilarious though, I will admit.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> I didn’t say you need a sword. Her sword is a homie. She fights with a sword. Shes a swordsman. Denying canon isn’t cute.
> 
> Big Mom is as much of a swordsman as Fujitora is, and Oda called Fujitora a swordsman in the databook. Both are confirmed weaker than Mihawk.
> 
> If you want people to take Kaido’s rumoured title seriously, try taking Mihawk’s confirmed title seriously.


Big mom's main style doesn't require a sword. She can fight effectively without one. She is not relying on a sword. She can drop the sword and fight with her other homies. Let me ask you a question. Do you know Asassin's creed ? Is an asassin a swordsman because he/she can use a sword or is he more than that? Answer this question. Now I'll ask you another question. What about a fencing master ? Is he a swordsman? Answer to yourself these questions and you'll realize the difference.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 2, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Okay Kaido is a dumbass who can't dynamically change his plans when the opportunity presents itself. Gotcha.
> 
> Lmao who cares about WB if he kills Shanks? You're acting like the only option is to beat Shanks and then continue going to MF, instead of going back to Onigashima with his prize.


Dude... the guy wanted WB's head, the guy closest to OP, not Shanks' head. He had a target. Why would he change it. Do you have any additional info regarding their relationship that we do not ? Share it if so. Kaido and WB go way back.


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## Sloan (Apr 2, 2021)

"Location: Rooftop"

Mihawk and Shanks BFR Big Mom and gangbang Kaidou mid diff.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Etherborn (Apr 2, 2021)

Fel1x said:


> nice post from moderator. you are doing your job extremely good



Thank you. Although I wasn’t moderating anything, I appreciate your positive reinforcement nonetheless.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Informative 1 | Creative 1


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## MO (Apr 2, 2021)

I'm siding with Big Mom. No matter how much Oda shits on her.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | GODA 3


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## Maruo (Apr 2, 2021)

Kaido > Mihawk > Big Mom, Shanks

Kaido and BM take this extreme diff. Kaido and BM are only being portrayed as they are right now because of Oda's writing, not because they're actually intended to be as weak as some people on this forum think they are. Shanks and Mihawk in this situation wouldn't do any better.


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## JustSumGuy (Apr 2, 2021)

Bro Kaido and BM are clowns. Oda wants them to be seen as tough but they’re going to lose to Shanks and Mihawk’s children. And Shanks and Mihawk are probably going to work better together than Kaido and BM as well. 

Kaido is SAID to be the WSC. Even in this last SBS Oda made it a point to word Kaido’s title in a way that could cast doubt.

Kaido still has PTSD over Oden who make no mistake, will be weaker than Mihawk.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## El Hit (Apr 2, 2021)

You guys need to make up your minds in how you are going to defend Kaido. You claim he regenerates in other threads then you claim he is getting hurt little by little.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Sloan (Apr 2, 2021)

El Hit said:


> You guys need to make up your minds in how you are going to defend Kaido. You claim he regenerates in other threads then you claim he is getting hurt little by little.


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## Mariko (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks and Mihawk vs BM and Kaidou?

Shanks: "I'm here to suggest not to start this war"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Brian (Apr 2, 2021)

MO said:


> I'm siding with Big Mom. No matter how much Oda shits on her.



on a serious note, it all comes down to Big Mom vs Mihawk and after 10 days it could go either way


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## Canute87 (Apr 2, 2021)

So basically raw power vs finese.

You'd think that one is better than the other but it isn't always the case.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## T.D.A (Apr 2, 2021)

Imagine Shanks and Mihawk's Hakai


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## Fel1x (Apr 2, 2021)

T.D.A said:


> Imagine Shanks and Mihawk's Hakai


why imagine something weaker than Kaido's and BM's Hakai?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 2


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## Angrel-San (Apr 2, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Big Mom is a swordsman so that makes her automatically weaker than Mihawk according to the author’s own words.
> 
> Meanwhile Shanks defeated Kaido at Marineford so badly that the first thing Kaido thinks off after Luffy hurts him is Shanks.


That is tricky.

Because yes, she is a Swordswoman and by author, anything with swords, Mihawk is the boss.

BUT....Big Mom is also, a GIANT, and also, an ELEMENTAL fighter.

Plus, flight.  

Big Mom can spam AOE attacks if she likes and her strength and tanking have proved superior to Kaido.

Big Mom beats Mihawk with all their skill sets.

Don't let Law's hax and the teamwork strat this chapter deny the fact that Big Mom is a VERY DIFFICULT matchup for anyone in the verse.


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## Eustathios (Apr 2, 2021)

Extreme diff either way, slightly favouring the first team.


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## Stringer (Apr 2, 2021)

Mihawk and Shanks all day.

Even if both groups were equal -- on a level playing field, always bet on a skilled Martial Artist over a brute.

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheOmega (Apr 2, 2021)

a tie


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## Mihawk (Apr 2, 2021)

Brian said:


> on a serious note, it all comes down to Big Mom vs Mihawk *and after 10 days it could go either way*



Big Mom is too old, fat, and overweight to last 10 days.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 2, 2021)

Brian said:


> on a serious note, it all comes down to Big Mom vs Mihawk and after 10 days it could go either way



big mom going 10 days without a snack?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mihawk (Apr 2, 2021)

By the way, Zoro was able to parry/block the combined named attack of 2 Yonko, albeit with great struggle.

Ya'll saw what Rayleigh did to Marco in the anime? He stopped him with one finger. That's what's gonna happen if Shanks or Mihawk stand in front of that attack

Reactions: Funny 1


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## muchentuchen (Apr 2, 2021)

Mihawk soloes


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 2, 2021)

The swordsmen are far more skilled and lethal. Given Zoro's performance i don't see how BM and Kaido can win. Shanks we know is already stronger than BM given Kaido's assessment. Mihawk is on his level or even slightly stronger.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Neutral 1


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## Kamina. (Apr 2, 2021)

Shanks > Kaido > Mihawk > Big Mom imo

I don't think the strength gaps are anything more than miniscule regardless if this is the actual hierarchy. So it's really match up dependent honestly.

BM and Kaido and have a ridiculous df power combo so they probably take it honestly.


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## Sablés (Apr 3, 2021)

MO said:


> I'm siding with Big Mom. No matter how much Oda shits on her.


Even Jeremiah would be proud of this much loyalty.


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## koike88 (Apr 3, 2021)

Mihawk hasn’t shown any notable feats.
The ‘world’s strongest slash’ was stopped by Jozu.
Wasn’t able to cut Luffy, clashed with no name Vista. I don’t see how Mihawk has any chance against a Yonkou. He’s YC at best but I still wouldn’t rank him up there with DF.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Big Baller Brand (Apr 3, 2021)

> I don’t see how Mihawk has any chance against a Yonkou. He’s YC at best but I still wouldn’t rank him up there with DF.



_ da fak?

His student, whom many are calling now "top tier" (YC1 / FM+) with all these defensive/endurance/attack feats, the teacher is scaled much lower?

_

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Sablés (Apr 3, 2021)

koike88 said:


> Mihawk hasn’t shown any notable feats.
> The ‘world’s strongest slash’ was stopped by Jozu.
> Wasn’t able to cut Luffy, clashed with no name Vista. I don’t see how Mihawk has any chance against a Yonkou. He’s YC at best but I still wouldn’t rank him up there with DF.


The art to trolling is subtlety, my friend.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 3, 2021)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> His intent when going to MF was going to a war that the world would hear about. What possible diplomatic solution could they have come to that he would back off without fighting?
> 
> You're also comparing old war buddies, who had a brother/sister relationship, to two people who have been enemies since Rocks,  further decreasing the chance that things were solved amicably.
> 
> ...



My god we've been over this.

Kaido vs Shanks happened a day prior to the war in the NW. Kaido didn't want to go to MF. He wanted to intercept WB in the New World. Shanks stopped him, he missed his chance.

Also since you spout this bullshit galore why isn't Shanks the strongest man, why doesn't Oda refer to Shanks as the strongest in the world and does so for Kaido and why do Kid and Killer whom have met him and gun for Shanks consider Kaido stronger ? If Kaido lost to Shanks why does he still have a bigger bounty ?

Too many holes in your post.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Kingdom Come (Apr 3, 2021)

Hundred of Ls finally gets a W and the Meme becomes a Mom


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## Quipchaque (Apr 3, 2021)

Shanks>Mihawk>Kaido>Big Mom.

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Quipchaque (Apr 3, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> My god we've been over this.
> 
> Kaido vs Shanks happened a day prior to the war in the NW. Kaido didn't want to go to MF. He wanted to intercept WB in the New World. Shanks stopped him, he missed his chance.
> 
> ...



Too much bias in your posts. Shanks does not have to be strongest man just because you believe Oda thinks of Kaido as strongest. Kid and Killer never Fought Shanks all out. Kaido has a bigger bounty because he is far more active in trying to terrorize the world and showing his power. Shanks keeps the Focus on more important matters.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

JustSumGuy said:


> Bro Kaido and BM are clowns. Oda wants them to be seen as tough but they’re going to lose to Shanks and Mihawk’s children. And Shanks and Mihawk are probably going to work better together than Kaido and BM as well.
> 
> *Kaido is SAID to be the WSC. Even in this last SBS Oda made it a point to word Kaido’s title in a way that could cast doubt.
> 
> Kaido still has PTSD over Oden who make no mistake, will be weaker than Mihawk*.


said or not said, it's irrelevant. Their titles come from spoken words, not from documents.
Also he is the WSP and above akainu (confirmed by Oda in an sbs ).

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Dellinger (Apr 3, 2021)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Too much bias in your posts. Shanks does not have to be strongest man just because you believe Oda thinks of Kaido as strongest. Kid and Killer never Fought Shanks all out. Kaido has a bigger bounty because he is far more active in trying to terrorize the world and showing his power. Shanks keeps the Focus on more important matters.



If Shanks beat Kaido then the marines wouldn't care about Kaido being more active or shit like that. Shanks would have a higher bounty by virtue of being stronger. He doesn't. He didn't beat him.

Also not seeing Shanks going all out means what ? They didn't see Kaido going all out either when they said that.

Also yes when you guys claim that Shanks is the strongest then you better bring up manga claims or Oda stuff. At the moment those don't exist. Instead the manga says that Kaido is the strongest, same with Oda.

Some of you even don't realize how dumb the argument is of Kaido going down now instead of later. Well he is going down to multiple opponents. Shanks and Mihawk won't go down to multiple opponents.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> said or not said, it's irrelevant. Their titles come from spoken words, not from documents.
> Also he is the WSP and above akainu (confirmed by Oda in an sbs ).



Is there a reason you believe Kaido’s title but deny Mihawk’s title? It’s hypocritical.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Is there a reason you believe Kaido’s title but deny Mihawk’s title? It’s hypocritical.


I believe both.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I believe both.



Glad to hear it. 

So that means Mihawk > Big Mom/Fujitora/Kizaru/Rayleigh.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Glad to hear it.
> 
> So that means Mihawk > Big Mom/Fujitora/Kizaru/Rayleigh.


bm is no swordsman. Having a sword at your disposal doesn't make you a swordsman if you are more than that. Ah, btw the bisento is also a sword. Is Mihawk above WB as well ?
Aside from Fuji and Rayleigh ( old and rusty version of course ) who both are dependent on their swords, none listed are swordsmen.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> bm is no swordsman. Having a sword at your disposal doesn't make you a swordsman if you are more than that. Ah, btw the bisento is also a sword. Is Mihawk above WB as well ?
> Aside from Fuji and Rayleigh who both are dependent on their swords, none listed are swordsmen.



Whitebeard is a bisento man. But at least you accept Mihawk > Fujitora so I’m proud of you.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Whitebeard is a bisento man. But at least you accept *Mihawk > Fujitora* so I’m proud of you.


I don't think I ever defended Fujitora against Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I don't think I ever defended Fujitora against Mihawk.



You defended Fuji against Mihawk’s son in a thread yesterday. Tsk tsk.

Curious how you think Mihawk vs Akainu goes.


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## Seraphoenix (Apr 3, 2021)

@A Optimistic this chapter also confirms that Mihawk has future sight (Which was a no-brainer imo):
Just before Kaido and BM attack Luffy warns them and we see this star shaped pattern, which indicates he can see the future:


At MF, before Jozu blocked his slash, Mihawk saw that he would. Check the same pattern:


Then when Luffy accidentally sees into the  future at MF we also see it:



I think Shanks has it too, since he commended Coby for his courage and changing the fate of the world. He knew Luffy would get away, which is why he didn't react to Kizaru or Aokiji attacking.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 2


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Seraphoenix said:


> @A Optimistic this chapter also confirms that Mihawk has future sight (Which was a no-brainer imo):
> Just before Kaido and BM attack Luffy warns them and we see this star shaped pattern, which indicates he can see the future:
> 
> 
> ...



Good post.

Yeah I think Mihawk definitely has future sight. The dude has no scars and has not been injured on panel yet. I don’t think Mihawk has CotC however, I don’t get conqueror vibes from someone who lives on an island with a bunch of zoo animals.

As for Shanks, I firmly believe he had future sight as well. And I won’t even get started on his amazing CoA and CotC feats.

If Mihawk joined Shanks crew and Shanks decided to take over the world, everyone would be in trouble.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

If Shanks on the same level as Oden, he beats Kaidou Mid diff at worse. BM I’m not sure where to place, but she gets finessed by Mihawk long enough for Shanks to beat Kaidou; and then combined with Mihawk surely he can beat BM right Oda....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> said or not said, it's irrelevant.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> How does what you're saying translate into Shanks > Kaido when Kaido is the WSP. A skirmish can mean a single weapon clash.
> Also why would've Kaido considered to go to death against Akagami





Dellinger said:


> My god we've been over this.
> 
> Kaido vs Shanks happened a day prior to the war in the NW. Kaido didn't want to go to MF. He wanted to intercept WB in the New World. Shanks stopped him, he missed his chance.
> 
> ...


Kidd said that because kaido is the arc antagonist


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## Daisuke Jigen (Apr 3, 2021)

The Queen of Meme is the weak link. Mihawk and Shanks win.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

Turrin said:


> If Shanks on the same level as Oden, he beats Kaidou *Mid diff at worse*. BM I’m not sure where to place, but she gets finessed by Mihawk long enough for Shanks to beat Kaidou; and then combined with Mihawk surely he can beat BM right Oda....


He didn't mid diff Young Kaido's weakest form. Current Hybrid Kaido destroys oden.


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He didn't mid diff Young Kaido's weakest form. Current Hybrid Kaido destroys oden.


He two shotted Kaidou strongest form durability wise (or at least equal to hybrid) after fighting through his entire army while Kaidou sniped at him from a distance , without Kaidou being able to do anything against him. I’m being kind to say that’s Mid-Diff.

Absolutely no evidence for Kaidou destroying Oden, when Kaidou is still terrified of him, acknowledges him as someone who can beat him still in the same league as Roger/WB/Rocks who are all clearly much stronger then Kaidou, and had to dodge a bootleg version of Emma used by Zoro who is nowhere near Oden’s level.

We have no basis for believing Oden doesn’t still absolutely decimate Kaidou. Kaidou only chance at this point for that not being true anymore is an awakening


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## TheWiggian (Apr 3, 2021)

Mihawk >= Shanks >> Kaido =< Big Mom 


Mihawk and Shanks make a retard stew out of them and feed whole Wano with it. Oh the irony.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## bil02 (Apr 3, 2021)

Big mom is the weak link as she is going to get clowned one way or the other,so sword duo should win.

Put even someone like Teach in Big mom's place and it is another story.


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## bil02 (Apr 3, 2021)

blessedboi2 said:


> Until I see Kaido tank a hit from Enma
> 
> Mihawk and Shanks high diff


I don't get this logic,can Shanks and Mihawk tank Enma slashes?

Kaido has shown the ability to dodge an attack when it is dangerous to him you know!?!


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

Turrin said:


> He two shotted Kaidou strongest form durability wise (or at least equal to hybrid) after fighting through his entire army while Kaidou sniped at him from a distance , without Kaidou being able to do anything against him. I’m being kind to say that’s Mid-Diff.
> 
> Absolutely no evidence for Kaidou destroying Oden, when Kaidou is still terrified of him, acknowledges him as someone who can beat him still in the same league as Roger/WB/Rocks who are all clearly much stronger then Kaidou, and had to dodge a bootleg version of Emma used by Zoro who is nowhere near Oden’s level.
> 
> *We have no basis for believing Oden doesn’t still absolutely decimate Kaidou*. Kaidou only chance at this point for that not being true anymore is an awakening


Yes, we do. Kaido needed on club hit in base while young. Current hybrid Kaido has the potential to oneshot Oden badly if he catches him with a ragnarok 

He also never 2 shotted Kaido. Kaido got up immediately and had the strength to one shot. Current hybrid Kaido >>>>>> dragon young Kaido


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yes, we do. Kaido needed on club hit in base while young. Current hybrid Kaido has the potential to oneshot Oden badly if he catches him with a ragnarok
> 
> He also never 2 shotted Kaido. Kaido got up immediately and had the strength to one shot. Current hybrid Kaido >>>>>> dragon young Kaido


I’m sure someone weaker then Kaidou could have knocked out Oden when he was off guard too. Off guard hits are a meaningless metrics for strength. Oden easily blocked a stronger non injured Kaidou’s Mace attacks previously, while talking to Orochi. So we very specifically know injured Kaidou is definitely not able to one-shot Oden when he’s on guard. Your clinging to this obvious outlier feat, because your bias.
—-
He never two shotted him because the Hag stopped him from landing his second blow to Kaidou’s throat. Your absolutely delusional if you think Kaidou getting hit by another Paradise Totosuka in the throat wouldn’t have killed him or at the very least KO’d him considering the damage the first one did to him. Even more delusional when you considered that Oda had the Hag interfere in this pivotal moment; for no reason.

Your willfully ignoring the narrative due to sheer bias. Your better then this, wake up


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## Eliyua23 (Apr 3, 2021)

I think I’m going to take the 2 guys we haven’t seen fight yet “ manga law”


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I’m sure someone weaker then Kaidou could have knocked out Oden when he was off guard too. Off guard hits are a meaningless metrics for strength. Oden easily blocked a stronger non injured Kaidou’s Mace attacks previously, while talking to Orochi. So we very specifically know injured Kaidou is definitely not able to one-shot Oden when he’s on guard. Your clinging to this obvious outlier feat, because your bias.
> —-
> He never two shotted him because the Hag stopped him from landing his second blow to Kaidou’s throat. Your absolutely delusional if you think Kaidou getting hit by another Paradise Totosuka in the throat wouldn’t have killed him or at the very least KO’d him considering the damage the first one did to him. Even more delusional when you considered that Oda had the Hag interfere in this pivotal moment; for no reason.
> 
> Your willfully ignoring the narrative due to sheer bias. Your better then this, wake up


I doubt people weaker than Kaido could've oneshot Oden. There is nothing indicating that.
Also, again, stop comparing apples and oranges. Current Kaido is much stronger as stated in the manga and also going by logic. Oden never got to face hybrid and he was stalemated by young base Kaido. #stopthehate
#Iamheretohelpyou

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> I doubt people weaker than Kaido could've oneshot Oden. There is nothing indicating that.
> Also, again, stop comparing apples and oranges. Current Kaido is much stronger as stated in the manga and also going by logic. Oden never got to face hybrid and he was stalemated by young base Kaido. #stopthehate
> #Iamheretohelpyou


I really don’t care what you think. Your using an off guard hit to evaluate strength. You know this is a faulty means of comparison. Like basically arguing Yeti Cool Brothers are Zoro level m
—-
What evidence do you have that Kaidou is now strong enough where he could do significantly better against Oden. I’ll wait...
—-
He never got to face Hybrid because he decimated Kaidou before Kaidou could do anything against him. And Hybrid at best has the same durability as his Dragon form so nothing changes.
—
If you take away from a scene where Oden is casually combating Kaidou while at the same time having a conversation with Orochi, where once again Hostages had to be used to stay his hand, is a stalemate, you are again willfully ignoring the narrative due to bias.


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I really don’t care what you think. Your using an off guard hit to evaluate strength. You know this is a faulty means of comparison. Like basically arguing Yeti Cool Brothers are Zoro level m
> —-
> What evidence do you have that Kaidou is now strong enough where he could do significantly better against Oden. I’ll wait...
> —-
> ...


What makes you think Oden could've tanked the hit if he knew it would come ? I'll wait
Also, yeah Kaido got way stronger and probably did not even have hybrid at the time. Hybrid is also way more agile and stronger than dragon form. He also has Haki on Roger and Primebeard Level, which he probably did not have back then. 
"Nothing changes"   aside from the fact that he is stronger, has his club, has god tier haki, is way more agile and he can use his CoO way more efficently due to a smaller size.


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> What makes you think Oden could've tanked the hit if he knew it would come ? I'll wait
> Also, yeah Kaido got way stronger and probably did not even have hybrid at the time. Hybrid is also way more agile and stronger than dragon form. He also has Haki on Roger and Primebeard Level, which he probably did not have back then.
> "Nothing changes"   aside from the fact that he is stronger, has his club, has god tier haki, is way more agile and he can use his CoO way more efficently due to a smaller size.


1)  Asking me to prove Oden can tank the hit is a red Herring argument as Oden isn’t a tank in the first place, he would just block the attack with his Swords. So if you want to even get into a discussion of whether Oden could thank that hit, you would have to first prove Injured Kaidou can even land a blow on On guard Oden’s head without him guarding it with his swords. Which you clearly can’t since Oden was casually reacting to Kaidou.

2) Proof Kaidou got way stronger and lol how incompetent is Kaidou if he didn’t have hybrid mastered at the time when like Kaku could use it rights after getting his fruit lol

3) Proof he has Haki on Roger and WB’s level. Your as pulling that 

4) The issue is your making all of that shit up. Except him being more agile in his hybrid form, but that doesn’t really even matter of Oden can blitz his reaction speed with Paradise Totosuka which he clearly can since he hit Kaidou before Kaidou could even react


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

Turrin said:


> 1)  Asking me to prove Oden can tank the hit is a red Herring argument as Oden isn’t a tank in the first place, he would just block the attack with his Swords. So if you want to even get into a discussion of whether Oden could thank that hit, you would have to first prove Injured Kaidou can even land a blow on On guard Oden’s head without him guarding it with his swords. Which you clearly can’t since Oden was casually reacting to Kaidou.
> 
> 2) Proof Kaidou got way stronger and lol how incompetent is Kaidou if he didn’t have hybrid mastered at the time when like Kaku could use it rights after getting his fruit lol
> 
> ...


LoL, you're saying that he'd block Kaido for a day or what ?  Hybrid would blitz him like he did to current Luffy. Oden was a legend, but he was a legend against inexperienced, young Kaido. The guy had Moria as a peer back then. Years later even WB avoided him.
Kaido has improved a lot since then. We see lightning haki, another form of his fruit + lots of experience accumulated. You're dellusional when you say he hasn't improved when it's been stated in the manga that he has.

He has just shown haki of the exact form they had.

I'm not making shit up. LoL, let's stop here with the Oden can Blitz Hybrid Kaido.


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Kaido was not in his prime when Oden cut him. And base Kaido stalemated Oden anyways.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Kaido was not in his prime when Oden cut him. And base Kaido stalemated Oden anyways.


Kaido fan in disguise


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Kaido fan in disguise



i just try to be fair and objective


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## Duhul10 (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i just try to be fair and objective


Said every NF member ever


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## trance (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> And base Kaido stalemated Oden anyways.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 3, 2021)

base kaido with hostages* exchanged some blows with Oden


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

trance said:


>



we saw kaido blocking his sword for one portion of a panel

oda spent more time showing us oden shaking his ass unfortunately


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> said or not said, it's irrelevant. *Their titles come from spoken words, *not from documents.
> Also he is the WSP and above akainu (confirmed by Oda in an sbs ).


we have a word for that:

R _ _ _ _ _

or R _ _ _ _ if you're a yank

whoever posts the right answer gets repped by me


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## Deleted member 58423 (Apr 3, 2021)

@Sloan i think you liked riddles. see my previous post


*Spoiler*: __


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## trance (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> we saw kaido blocking his sword for one portion of a panel



i  dont remember this

can you post the panel?


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## A Optimistic (Apr 3, 2021)

trance said:


> i  dont remember this
> 
> can you post the panel?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 3, 2021)

Dellinger said:


> My god we've been over this.
> 
> Kaido vs Shanks happened a day prior to the war in the NW. Kaido didn't want to go to MF. He wanted to intercept WB in the New World. Shanks stopped him, he missed his chance.
> 
> ...



I can't be asked to verify if what you're saying about the timing of the fight, or whether Kaido wanted to intercept WB on sea or specifically make it a 3 way war in MF is true.

However none of those tiny details matter, Shanks and Kaido clashed, Kaido backed off and Shanks arrived at MF. Suggesting that Kaido lost whatever altercation they had.

There is no current WSM, that's the point the title is in contention and I still think Shanks is stronger than Kaido. Oda doesn't refer to Kaido as the strongest in the world either.

Your point is silly, they gunned for Shanks, got bodied and are now gunning for Kaido. What logical way would you conclude that means Kaido>Shanks?

LOLbounty as an argument in this context.



> Too many holes in your post.



nah


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Apr 3, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> You defended Fuji against Mihawk’s son in a thread yesterday. Tsk tsk.
> 
> Curious how you think Mihawk vs Akainu goes.


Chadkainu> Mihawk>Shanks. >>>>>>> the others.


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## Fel1x (Apr 3, 2021)

lol at people saying someone is stronger than Kaido

how much more Oda has to say that Kaido is strongest pirate?

he said it as narrator, he said it by the words of multiple characters, he said it in SBS


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## Kai (Apr 3, 2021)

Kaido > Shanks > Big Mom > Mihawk. 

Two Yonko win.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## MYJC (Apr 3, 2021)

We have basically nothing to go on for Shanks other than portrayal, and we've never really seen Mihawk serious. 

So...IDK. 


I guess if we go strictly by portrayal then I'll go with Kaido or Big Mom, since Kaido is the "Strongest Creature" and both him and BM have higher bounties than Shanks. Not much else to go on otherwise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chronophage (Apr 3, 2021)

Mihawk & Shanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Meadows & Meme

Reactions: Funny 4


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Apr 3, 2021)

Trying to extrapolate exact percentages of difficulty and pl  or  oden’s durability from kaido vs oden is dumb. The point was oden was stronger and kaido’s victory was underhanded. It is meant to a surprise and a chance for characterization because kaido was bothered by how it went down. Flashback shouldn’t really affect kaido’s current standing just his standing in comparison to Roger.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Apr 3, 2021)

There's still no implication that Mihawk is Yonkou tier. This was always the fandom's headcanon. Shanks, just like every other Yonkou didn't become a Yonkou from the day he was born. And Mihawk only fought him before losing his arm. There's no proof that Shanks was a Yonkou during that time. Until that is cleared up, he's still YFM/Admiral at best.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 5


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## Karma (Apr 3, 2021)

>Mihawk deniers everytime Meme wipes out Napoleon


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## Karma (Apr 3, 2021)

The idea that losing an arm made Shanks stronger is also pretty funny

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Apr 3, 2021)

hostages made it so Oden had to hold back

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sloan (Apr 3, 2021)

girafarig said:


> @Sloan i think you liked riddles. see my previous post
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __


Rumour is one of them, I think.

Other one is Rumor.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Turrin (Apr 3, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> LoL, you're saying that he'd block Kaido for a day or what ?  Hybrid would blitz him like he did to current Luffy. Oden was a legend, but he was a legend against inexperienced, young Kaido. The guy had Moria as a peer back then. Years later even WB avoided him.
> Kaido has improved a lot since then. We see lightning haki, another form of his fruit + lots of experience accumulated. You're dellusional when you say he hasn't improved when it's been stated in the manga that he has.
> 
> He has just shown haki of the exact form they had.
> ...


1) The match would never last a day.

2) Oden blitz’d Kaidou before he could even react, so prove to me hybrid boosts reaction speed or Kaidou gets blitz’d

3) Where is your proof that he didn’t have those things before. I’m not saying he didn’t improve by the way, I’m saying we have zero evidence he improved enough to make a difference.

4) Showing Haki of a similar type doesn’t mean they are the same level. That’s like saying Vergo is the same level hardening as Kaidou. Super poor false equivalence argument

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Van Basten (Apr 4, 2021)

The Blade Brigade takes it.


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## LightningForce (Apr 4, 2021)

The manga couldn’t have made this any clearer

Kaido is the WSC & BM with her three homies is his nigh-equal in hybrid mode. Kaido intended to *kill* Lin Lin himself when she came over, while she just wanted an alliance, yet BM won him over in that regard

Both also have *largely* superior feats than the sword duo (for now maybe). Kaido one-shot pre-Udon Luffy w/ a named attack, BM two-shot Queen w/ no-named attacks. BM’s homies are immune to Haki attacks so unless either of them have fire-cutting abilities they can’t do shit, sword duo don’t have any DF shenanigans that can do anything to them

Anybody that uses BM’s moments against SH need to be reminded that a serious Mihawk couldn’t even kill pre-TS Luffy (& yes he was dead serious. The title of the chapter was even called “*Luffy vs Mihawk”). *Plot shield does wonders for the SH doesn’t it?

Anybody that votes in favor of Shanks/Mihawk is solely due to favoritism or (unfounded) future expectation. As of now, based on Mihawk’s performance in MF & equal scaling of Shanks to Mihawk, the sword duo get splatted & electrocuted & burned seven ways till Sunday

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Captain Altintop (Apr 4, 2021)

BM is the weakest link, Shanks the strongest, 

Team Shanks wins *extreme *(mid) diff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lord Stark (Apr 4, 2021)

I'd lean Shanks & Mihawk because I feel like their fighting styles are more conducive to team fighting. A Hakai from Shanks & Mihawk would likely be superior to BM & Kaido because they are both raw swordsmen & haki masters vs. BM & Kaido who are more well rounded with DF abilities and monstrous durability.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## blueWaves (Apr 4, 2021)

In terms of feats, BM and Kaido take it because those 2 have serious stuff while the bladed duo don't have much feats.

But with the combination of the narrative and statements and future plot progression, it makes more sense it's Shanks and Mihawk. 

Extremely close fight, but Shanks and Mihawk take it.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## LightningForce (Apr 4, 2021)

Lord Stark said:


> I'd lean Shanks & Mihawk because I feel like their fighting styles are more conducive to team fighting. A Hakai from Shanks & Mihawk would likely be superior to BM & Kaido because they are both raw swordsmen & haki masters vs. BM & Kaido who are more well rounded with DF abilities and monstrous durability.



Kaido and BM’s Hakai wasn’t even _infused_ with BH. That was just their _natural strength_. And they’re certainly not lacking in the Haki department either as hyped up by Rooftop Law whose Haki is not too far off in strength from the other Rooftop members so as to not be able to teleport them

Mihawk and Shanks only got BH. They may arguably have better Haki than the other two, but _significantly_ better Haki to compensate for a BH-infused, strength-charged attack from Hybrid Kaido and BM? Only Roger and WB have that privilege with their clash portrayal

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 10, 2021)

This thread

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Draffut (Jun 10, 2021)

BM solos high diff.


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## Grinningfox (Jun 10, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> This thread


It actually made me  physically LOL several times

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Pirao (Jun 10, 2021)

Laido and Big Meme eat a healthy dose of iron


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## Perrin (Jun 10, 2021)

Shanks and Mihawk play noughts and crosses on the two most durable characters in the series to hype them up but each wins one game to further trigger the fandom.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## trance (Jun 10, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> Big Mom is a swordsman so that makes her automatically weaker than Mihawk according to the author’s own words.
> 
> Meanwhile Shanks defeated Kaido at Marineford so badly that the first thing Kaido thinks off after Luffy hurts him is Shanks.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jun 10, 2021)

Mihawk can't carry that bum Lhanks, so unfortunately they lose

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 10, 2021)

blueWaves said:


> In terms of feats, BM and Kaido take it because those 2 have serious stuff while the bladed duo don't have much feats.
> 
> But with the combination of the narrative and statements and future plot progression, it makes more sense it's Shanks and Mihawk.
> 
> Extremely close fight, but Shanks and Mihawk take it.



Damn, this is probably the most objective answer I've seen. + reps

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Jun 10, 2021)

Poor Shanks loses because of Mihawk.
Kaido and Big Mom mid to low diff.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Peppoko (Jun 12, 2021)

Shanks >= Kaido >= Big Mom > Mihawk
Yonko duo wins extreme-diff

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## AmitDS (Jun 13, 2021)

Before I would have said either way or Shanks and Mihawk extreme diff but I really do wonder how strong Mihawk is supposed to really be. Especially in MF, Oda did a lot of shit to bring into question him being Emperor leveled and, unlike Kaido's death wish /playing with his food or Big Mom's psychosis and reckless, cartoon like behavior, Mihawk was never given an excuse for this.

Everyone expects Shanks and the WSS title to save him but will it? Will Oda make Shanks something beyond a swordsman since he lost his arm and were seeing new types of Haki related powers?

In theory, Luffy fighting BB and Zoro fighting Shiryuu before Zoro fights Mihawk would make Mihawk seem less than BB, Luffy, Shanks, Kaido, Big Mom, Prime WB, Roger etc for example, unless Zoro and Shiryuu are emperor leveled before.

The way I see it, Zoro is dragging Mihawk down while Shanks is pulling him up, power wise and Oda can go either way when the time comes. If Zoro equals Luffy EOS or comes close then it can be logical to place Mihawk on the same level as the emperors, and say him and Shanks win for sure.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 13, 2021)

this people might be top 4 of the verse

but since I still can't be sure Mihawk is a legit Yonko level ... I have to go against Shanks and vote for Rocks duo

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 13, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> this people might be top 4 of the verse
> 
> but since I still can't be sure Mihawk is a legit Yonko level ... I have to go against Shanks and vote for Rocks duo


Smh

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 14, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Smh


I need on screen data to respect a character

Mihawk have to wait for his turn
all the doubts around him in entire fandom are created for lack of this item


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## Shanks (Jun 14, 2021)

Biggest thing going on for Big Mom and Kaido is that they each have a tone of HP. Problem with that is it ain't going to cut it against tier 1 swordsmen. 

Shanks is also a total mystery. At worst he is solid Yonkou level. And best he could be Imu's right hand man and be even stronger.

Kaido is going down and Big Mom will no longer be a relevant  threat post Wano.

It's obvious.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1 | Creative 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 16, 2021)

Shanks said:


> Biggest thing going on for Big Mom and Kaido is that they each have a tone of HP. Problem with that is it ain't going to cut it against tier 1 swordsmen.
> 
> Shanks is also a total mystery. At worst he is solid Yonkou level. And best he could be Imu's right hand man and be even stronger.
> 
> ...



it's not safe to put ANY type of limit for Shanks's true power ...

this is what Oda did to his power hype :

1st impression : he is a almost famous pirate and should be a big deal
2nd impression : he is comparable to Mihawk
3rd impression : he is comparable to WSM
4th impression : he stopped the war and Kaido
5th impression : even World Government respect him
6th impression : Kaido consider him ONLY living match

and we still have no idea how far True CoC can push a man
Shanks stock value is going up nonstop ...
any time people made jokes about his hype (he gave sake to Kaido / CoC is fodder control)
Oda laughed at haters 

*no logical man should bet Vs Shanks hype as of now *

Reactions: GODA 2


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 16, 2021)

Team 2 win, better feats.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 16, 2021)

Team 1 wins since Shanks already been portrayed by being stronger than Kaido and Mihawk is his equal or even slightly superior. 

The more successful pirates of the mid gen will come out on top.

Reactions: Agree 1


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