# Edo Itachi vs Gokage



## joshhookway (Jun 17, 2013)

Location: Kages vs Madara
SOM: IC
Knowledge: itachi full, kages none
Restrictions: none
Distance: Distance between madara's cliff and Naruto

Kabuto sends Itachi in place of Madara


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## Trojan (Jun 17, 2013)

Gokage wipe the floor with him. or actually No, they want even bother to fight him
they will more like send ten ten and some fodder to deal with him.


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## tanman (Jun 17, 2013)

Itachi could probably swing this with bloodlust.
Without, I'm skeptical. Knowledge gives him a huge advantage as he can kill of a big player (A or Onoki) immediately, but still I don't know if he won't end up having Susano'o punched by Tsunade and A only to get flung back into a pyramid. That would only really happen if he wasn't going all out, though.


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## Final Jutsu (Jun 18, 2013)

Gokages win.  Itachi will need Susanno here.  Gaara will pluck him out just like with Madara.  After that, Itachi will become helpless against such numbers.

Raikage - Insane speed.  Sasuke needed Susanoo to survive.

Onooki - Jinton spam from the air.

Tsunade -  Slug summon spitting acid etc

Mei - Elemental spam, and mist if needed

Gaara - Sand LoS, and constant attacks


I believe Itachi can take out 2 or 3 before he goes though.  Most likely victims are Tsunade and Mei.  Oonoki can take to the sky and out of Genjutsu/Amaterasu range.  Raikage can dodge and avoid.  Gaara can LoS.  Tsunade and Mei will get lit up or owned by Tsukiyomi.


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## Bringer (Jun 18, 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks Onoki solo's?

*Dust Release
*Itachi regenerating
*Covers regenerating Itachi in sand

Does Gaara get his sealing tags?


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Onoki solo's?
> 
> *Dust Release
> *Itachi regenerating
> ...



No, you are not. Either Onoki or Gaara can defeat him alone.


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## Final Jutsu (Jun 18, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Onoki solo's?
> 
> *Dust Release
> *Itachi regenerating
> ...




Dust release will be countered by Yata's mirror.  Itachi has unlimited chakra, so he can keep Susanoo up.   Itachi will pressure Oonoki with Katons, and Yasaka Magatama from range.  Not to mention sniping him with his top tier Shuriken skills.  Which worked for Sasuke in shooting down Deidara.  If Oonoki is a dumb ass and gets close.. He gets stabbed with Totsuka, incinerated with Amaterasu, or bent over with Genjutsu.  Oonoki has no chance to beat Edo Itachi alone.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 18, 2013)

Onoki climbs onto Raikage's back and with an enormous boost in speed, pounds Itachi around like a ping pong ball. Assuming Itachi even manages to raise his Yata Mirror in time for defense, the duo zip around the shield and obliterate the chakra construct from behind with a Weight-Enhanced Lightning Punch from the Raikage.

While they're too busy playing pinball with the Uchiha, Gaara can build upon copious amounts of sand around the Susano'o and restrict its movements, or guard against potential counterattacks if need be - i.e., Amaterasu or Yasaka Magatama. Mei provides offensive support with her Suitons and Tsunade can eventually close in to add a few more punches alongside Raikage, though he doesn't need it.

Itachi gets raped.


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## Bringer (Jun 18, 2013)

Final Jutsu said:


> Dust release will be countered by Yata's mirror.  Itachi has unlimited chakra, so he can keep Susanoo up.   Itachi will pressure Oonoki with Katons, and Yasaka Magatama from range.  Not to mention sniping him with his top tier Shuriken skills.  Which worked for Sasuke in shooting down Deidara.  If Oonoki is a dumb ass and gets close.. He gets stabbed with Totsuka, incinerated with Amaterasu, or bent over with Genjutsu.  Oonoki has no chance to beat Edo Itachi alone.



Last I checked Yata Mirror only protects him from one angle, Onoki could simply fly behind Itachi and fire it.


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## Final Jutsu (Jun 18, 2013)

BringerOfChaos said:


> Last I checked Yata Mirror only protects him from one angle, Onoki could simply fly behind Itachi and fire it.




Itachi turns around...


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## Bonly (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi can win if he can take out Onoki+Gaara first and quickly as they are the only two that can put him down for good. The thing is, it's very unlikely that Itachi will be able to take out the both of them before he gets sealed.


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## Ersa (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi is strong but no one bar the top tiers can take a fully unrestricted Gokage. They beat him mid difficulty at most.

Although with Koto, I can see Oonoki + Edo Itachi steamrolling the fuck out of the Gokage.

And if you think any of the Gokage can defeat him solo then just stop kidding around. Edo Itachi is at least two tiers above the strongest of them (Onoki). He can easily steamroll Mei, Tsunade and A low difficulty. It's only because of Gaara and Oonoki that the Kages win at all.


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## Marsala (Jun 18, 2013)

Having no knowledge against Itachi is practically auto-lose. He can Tsukiyomi half of them before they realize what is going on and Amaterasu the rest of them. You pretty much need to have either extensive knowledge of Itachi's abilities or power on Hashirama's level to survive his instant win powers.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

People seriously think he has a ghost of a chance? Such nonsense, he barley can take out of them out. 
the funny part if someone made a thread like A Vs Itachi or Gaara Vs Itachi ,,,etc 
you may see people claim that Itachi wins med/ high difficult. Now when we put them together he still
win med /high difficult?  It's kinda strange that Itachi is smarter than some of his fans and he knows that's he's
overrated.


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## Mithos (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi gets ripped from Susano'o by Gaara's sand, then he gets overwhelmed quickly by the other 4 attacking. 

Itachi gets raped, he has no chance. It's doubtful he'll even take one of them out. 

Anyone thinking Itachi has a chance to win or even puts up a decent fight is delusional.


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## Rain (Jun 18, 2013)

rotfl full knowledge Itachi ignites the fuck out of them. 0 difficulty.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 18, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Knowledge: itachi full, kages none



^This is the deciding factor.

The Kage start dropping like flies when Itachi begins whipping out Mangekyou Sharingan techniques; Tsukuyomi, and BAM- one of them just collapses out of nowhere. While the other Kage are freaking out, Amaterasu sweep. Then Itachi steamrolls through with Susano'o.

If he gives them no chances and executes everything flawlessly, he can win this. However, he is outnumbered and the five Kage are still capable of taking him out if they manage to mount an organized offense, so this is a match that can go either way.

It'll probably end up in favor of the five Kage, but at the cost of like half of them.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 18, 2013)

Matto-sama said:


> Anyone thinking Itachi has a chance to win or even puts up a decent fight is delusional.



Itachi has full knowledge and they have none.

Anyone denying the massive imbalance that this creates in Itachi's favor is delusional.

The only way they're going to learn about any of his Jutsu is after he uses them. And when you're talking about attacks like Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, this mean's somebody's going to die.


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## Final Jutsu (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi has full knowledge and they have none.
> 
> Anyone denying the massive imbalance that this creates in Itachi's favor is delusional.
> 
> The only way they're going to learn about any of his Jutsu is after he uses them. And when you're talking about attacks like Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, this mean's somebody's going to die.




Well, we know that it's possible for one sharingan user to cast a genjutsu on multiple opponents at the same time.  Kakashi did it.  It'd be something if they all were standing in front of Itachi staring at him, and acting all superior.. Then BAM!  they all hit the floor at the same time.   I'm no huge Itachi fan, but that'd be pretty hilarious


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## mylastduchess (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> ^This is the deciding factor.
> 
> The Kage start dropping like flies when Itachi begins whipping out Mangekyou Sharingan techniques; Tsukuyomi, and BAM- one of them just collapses out of nowhere. While the other Kage are freaking out, Amaterasu sweep. Then Itachi steamrolls through with Susano'o.
> 
> ...



Does Itachi wanking really go this far? I didn't know that no knowledge meant the Gokages becomes idiots. What exactly do you expect them to do stand 10 feet in front of Itachi so he can Tsukuyomi one of them? Oh yeah unfortunately for the Kages they don't have any defense against Amaterasu right? and its not like they can just pull him out of Susaano, oh wait!


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## Nikushimi (Jun 18, 2013)

Final Jutsu said:


> Well, we know that it's possible for one sharingan user to cast a genjutsu on multiple opponents at the same time.  Kakashi did it.  It'd be something if they all were standing in front of Itachi staring at him, and acting all superior.. Then BAM!  they all hit the floor at the same time.   I'm no huge Itachi fan, but that'd be pretty hilarious



I doubt that'd work, if only because

1. Itachi probably doesn't have the chakra to Tsukuyomi that many people at once. Edo Tensei doesn't raise a shinobi's cap, it just replenishes their supply endlessly.

2. That many people aren't necessarily all going to be looking at his eyes at the same time.



mylastduchess said:


> Does Itachi wanking really go this far? I didn't know that no knowledge meant the Gokages becomes idiots.



Having no intel against an opponent who has full intel is an obvious disadvantage, even if you ignore the fact that Edo Itachi is the strongest individual here by a wide margin.

Itachi also happens to be one of the most dangerous characters to face without knowledge, and also one of the most capable WITH it. He has it, they don't. The match is heavily-skewed in his favor from the outset.



> What exactly do you expect them to do stand 10 feet in front of Itachi so he can Tsukuyomi one of them?



They don't even know Itachi can use Tsukuyomi, here.

They may not even know what it is, depending on how far the OP is willing to take the no-knowledge stipulation.



> Oh yeah unfortunately for the Kages they don't have any defense against Amaterasu right?



The only ones who do are A and Gaara.

But both of their defenses are predicated on their ability to anticipate Amaterasu. Without knowledge, they can't; if they're targeted, A won't get a chance to Shunshin and Gaara won't get a chance to block LOS with his sand.



> and its not like they can just pull him out of Susaano, oh wait!



Gaara's the only one who can do that and he didn't exactly figure it out immediately.

Pulling it off is also going to be tricky while Itachi has knowledge of Gaara's capabilities and will be targeting the biggest threats to his chances of victory with attacks they don't know anything about.


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## ShadowReaper (Jun 18, 2013)

Gokage with some difficulty. Being Edo Tensei doesn't mean that the user can get around negative post effects of some strong Ninjutsu and those summoned by Edo Tensei can't exceed their chakra reserves that was during the time they lived. So he can't keep Final Susanoo form for a prolonged time and spam Amaterasu and Tsukyomi right and left.


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## mylastduchess (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Having no intel against an opponent who has full intel is an obvious disadvantage, even if you ignore the fact that Edo Itachi is the strongest individual here by a wide margin.
> 
> Itachi also happens to be one of the most dangerous characters to face without knowledge, and also one of the most capable WITH it. He has it, they don't. The match is heavily-skewed in his favor from the outset.


:amazed yeah cause 5 vs 1 is not at all heavily puts it in the Gokages favour




> They don't even know Itachi can use Tsukuyomi, here.
> 
> They may not even know what it is, depending on how far the OP is willing to take the no-knowledge stipulation.


 So what if they don't know that itachi has Tsukuyomi.... do you honestly think they will stand there a few feet away from him and just gaze through his eyes? They have freakin long range attacks, Garaa can just bury him in a pyramid of sand, Onoki Jinton his as off, Mei use mist/ water dragon etc etc. when you have five people attacking you even you Tsukuyomi one the others will kill you, then Tsunade will just heal the one he genjutsued




> The only ones who do are A and Gaara.
> 
> But both of their defenses are predicated on their ability to anticipate Amaterasu. Without knowledge, they can't; if they're targeted, A won't get a chance to Shunshin and Gaara won't get a chance to block LOS with his sand.


 too bad he's facing a team, heres a simple logic even though they might not be expecting Amaterasu, they are gonna be expecting *something* they are not simply gonna just stand there 
and wait to get hit by an attack.



> Gaara's the only one who can do that and he didn't exactly figure it out immediately.
> 
> Pulling it off is also going to be tricky while Itachi has knowledge of Gaara's capabilities and will be targeting the biggest threats to his chances of victory with attacks they don't know anything about.


Oh do you think that is his biggest threat how about Onoki/A combo how is he gonna deal with that?
The first combined Gokage attack to Madara was Mei's mist, + A/Onoki assault. What is Itachi's answer to that ? let alone the Gokage's other arsenal


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## Ersa (Jun 18, 2013)

So it's delusional to think someone possibly 2 tiers higher then any of the Kages can give them a fight?

They win but the conditions favour Itachi greatly.

Itachi has clones as well, with unlimited stamina he can spam 2-3 clones without any drawbacks. They can help fend off the numbers game and still cast genjutsu enough to catch Post-Fuuton Naruto who can give Tsunade/Mei a high difficulty fight and even win.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 18, 2013)

mylastduchess said:


> :amazed yeah cause 5 vs 1 is not at all heavily puts it in the Gokages favour



It helps, but an advantage on one side doesn't cancel out any of the advantages on the other.



> So what if they don't know that itachi has Tsukuyomi.... do you honestly think they will stand there a few feet away from him and just gaze through his eyes? They have freakin long range attacks,



The starting distance here is not that large. Fights tend to move into close-range most of the time, anyway; the greater the distance, the more time to react and the harder it is to hit the target. The Kage didn't try to snipe Madara; they went in and unleashed combo attacks at melee range.



> Garaa can just bury him in a pyramid of sand, Onoki Jinton his as off, Mei use mist/ water dragon etc etc. when you have five people attacking you even you Tsukuyomi one the others will kill you, then Tsunade will just heal the one he genjutsued



The thing is, Itachi knows they can do all of this. He will coordinate his attacks to take out the Kage in the order that will maximize the probability of his victory. He also won't neglect to account for Tsunade's ability to heal damage from Tsukuyomi and would probably try to take her out early to eliminate the enemy team's medic/chakra battery.



> too bad he's facing a team, heres a simple logic even though they might not be expecting Amaterasu, they are gonna be expecting *something* they are not simply gonna just stand there
> and wait to get hit by an attack.



Here's some more simple logic: You can't evade an attack if you don't know how or when it's going to hit you. There's no chance to see Amaterasu physically coming; by the time it's been cast, somebody's ass is on fire. The only warning sign is the blood coming from Itachi's eye, which doesn't intuitively betray anything about what the Jutsu is going to do next (or if it's even a Jutsu in the first place).

They won't know how to react and they won't have a chance to before the attack manifests.



> Oh do you think that is his biggest threat how about Onoki/A combo how is he gonna deal with that?



Sweep the fuck out of one or both of them with Amaterasu before they get the luxury of seeing someone else killed by it.



> The first combined Gokage attack to Madara was Mei's mist, + A/Onoki assault. What is Itachi's answer to that ? let alone the Gokage's other arsenal



The five Kage had substantial intel on Madara and he didn't really know anything about them.

Here, the situation is reversed.

Itachi's faster than all of them but A; he won't give Mei a chance to trap him in Kirigakure no Jutsu if he thinks it'll be a problem for him. Itachi's better at close-range anyway, and Mei will only impair her own teammates if she uses it then. Plus, Itachi actually has consistent feats proving he can bullseye targets without a visual, while even Mei herself does not.


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## mylastduchess (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> It helps, but an advantage on one side doesn't cancel out any of the advantages on the other.


 I'm pretty sure 5 Kages vs. 1 cancels out his knowldge advantage, like when the Kages didn't know Madara had Meteors, Rinnegan, and Harishama's powers as well but countered most of them pretty well short of the perfect Susaano



> The starting distance here is not that large. Fights tend to move into close-range most of the time, anyway; the greater the distance, the more time to react and the harder it is to hit the target. The Kage didn't try to snipe Madara; they went in and unleashed combo attacks at melee range.


 That still doesn't change the fact that most of the Kages are long range fighters and can kill him (like Onoki's jinton) from a long distance. and again when he tsukuyomis one of the kages  how is he defending against the attack of 4 other kages?



> The thing is, Itachi knows they can do all of this. He will coordinate his attacks to take out the Kage in the order that will maximize the probability of his victory. He also won't neglect to account for Tsunade's ability to heal damage from Tsukuyomi and would probably try to take her out early to eliminate the enemy team's medic/chakra battery.{/quote] Really you can't keep saying Garaa sand is the biggest threat, he'll take him out first, oh wait  its Onoki's Jinton hell kill him first, no wait its Tsunade
> 
> The fact is the Kages are working as a unit, he can't kill one without going through their shared defences





> Here's some more simple logic: You can't evade an attack if you don't know how or when it's going to hit you. There's no chance to see Amaterasu physically coming; by the time it's been cast, somebody's ass is on fire. The only warning sign is the blood coming from Itachi's eye, which doesn't intuitively betray anything about what the Jutsu is going to do next (or if it's even a Jutsu in the first place).
> 
> They won't know how to react and they won't have a chance to before the attack manifests.


 So your saying because they don't know about Amaterasu they will just sit there and not try to put up defenses of some sort?



> Sweep the fuck out of one or both of them with Amaterasu before they get the luxury of seeing someone else killed by it.


 yeah sure thats easy cause the speed of Onoki/A combo is so laughable right? Even you admited that A is already faster than Itachi... try again cause you forgot the mist part too 



> The five Kage had substantial intel on Madara and he didn't really know anything about them.
> 
> Here, the situation is reversed.


 No they didn't most of Madara's arsenal was revealed in the fight



> Itachi's faster than all of them but A; he won't give Mei a chance to trap him in Kirigakure no Jutsu if he thinks it'll be a problem for him. Itachi's better at close-range anyway, and Mei will only impair her own teammates if she uses it then. Plus, Itachi actually has consistent feats proving he can bullseye targets without a visual, while even Mei herself does not.


 Yeah you keep forgetting that its 5v1 stop saying oh Mei is a problem Itachi will just kill her first cause news for you all 5 of them is his problem 

He's NOT gonna kill anybody without having to go through the other 4 defences.

What is stopping the kages from doing any of their combined attacks from the beginning anyways?


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## Bringer (Jun 18, 2013)

Final Jutsu said:


> Itachi turns around...



Well then it comes down to rather Onoki can fire the technique before Itachi turns around... and this is only for Onoki vs Itachi.


Gokage vs Itachi...

They all distract him by spamming attacks while Onoki uses dust release from behind.


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## Mithos (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi has full knowledge and they have none.
> 
> Anyone denying the massive imbalance that this creates in Itachi's favor is delusional.
> 
> The only way they're going to learn about any of his Jutsu is after he uses them. And when you're talking about attacks like Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, this mean's somebody's going to die.



Why are they just waiting around to see what he's going to do? 

Most of Itachi's most dangerous attacks are most potent up close, so they're out of the immediate danger zone to start. 

They're going to start off using their combination attacks. For example, if A attacks and Mei supports with Lava like against Madara, Itachi is already forced onto the defensive and forced to bring out Susano'o. And once he does that, Gaara can rip him out right away and now he's defenseless with A moving around and Mei supporting. Oonoki could boost A's speed and strength to make it so much worse for Itachi, or could support by blasting him with Jinton when he's open because of A and Mei. 

If they feel like playing it safe since the opponent's abilities are unknown, Mei casts Hidden Mist to cover up A's movements. Then Itachi's offense is extremely hampered and he definitely won't be able to deal with their combination attacks. 

The idea that he sweeps even a couple of them because of no knowledge hinders entirely upon the ludicrous idea that they just let him get within range and don't do anything. Instead they're going to take the offensive and Itachi just can't deal with it - at all.


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## Larcher (Jun 18, 2013)

Gokage stomp


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## Bkprince33 (Jun 18, 2013)

I think people are forgetting the fact that , the gokage only did all those combo's and went all out like that because they knew how strong madara was and they feared him, they even stated they where using coward tactics for attacking him 5 on one, so I don't think they would adopt the same fighting style against itachi.


If there arrogant and don't take itachi serious they lose, if they deem him as threatening as madara and fight him the same way they win, but I highly doubt they would do this.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 18, 2013)

Final Jutsu said:


> Dust release will be countered by Yata's mirror.  Itachi has unlimited chakra, so he can keep Susanoo up.   Itachi will pressure Oonoki with Katons, and Yasaka Magatama from range.  Not to mention sniping him with his top tier Shuriken skills.  Which worked for Sasuke in shooting down Deidara.  If Oonoki is a dumb ass and gets close.. He gets stabbed with Totsuka, incinerated with Amaterasu, or bent over with Genjutsu.  Oonoki has no chance to beat Edo Itachi alone.



Oonoki has two types of jinton. There is the sphere and cone. The cone is a straightforward attack that could be block by YM....MAYBE. But the spherical or box envelops the target then breaks them down from the inside and as shown when it interacts with the ground, that it is not limited by the boundaries of physical objects. Also the outer boundaries only contain the explosion, the core needs to get blocked. So thus Susanoo will be enveloped and then it will destroy it. Jinton is capable of destroying chakra based entities so I see no reason why anything of Itachi's susanoo will survive. Also we are not sure if YM could block it as it redirects the attack but jinton doesn't have a direction of attack it is an AoE jutsu. Not only that but the technique can split into halves effectively attacking the left side alone and then the right side alone so if YM does protect from it there is still another technique that it won't come into contact with. Not to mention its an advance KG known as a KT so its completely baseless to say that YM which has only reflected a sword and snakes is going to stop a KT by using its counter elements of which ill touch upon why it won't work in a minute.

All Onoki has to do is a few rock clones, use Moving earth core to put Itachi underground and in a hole, Kages rain down attacks or Gaara buries him, then Onoki can proceed to throw jintons at Itachi...GG


Earth Wind and Fire make up Dust release.

Earth is weak against raiton
Earth is strong against water
Fire is weak vs water
Fire is strong vs Wind
Wind is weak vs Fire
Wind is strong vs Raiton.

So YM will need to produce a chakra substances that is Raiton, Suiton, and a katon.  Raiton to counter Doton, Suiton to counter katon, Katon to counter fuuton.

Raiton- Weakness doton, powers wind, nothing to katon.
Suiton- Weakens Katon, powers doton, nothing to fuuton
Katon- Powers fuuton, weakens Suiton(YM is the only producer of suiton), and nothing to doton.

So those 3 elements are needed to counter Jinton, and the makeup must be just right. So it gives a power boost to earth and wind, and the Suiton cancels the katon of onoki, but YM must implement its on katon thus putting the katon variable back in the equation.

Im getting so confused Ill have to go and make notes, but I assure you there is no way that YM can deflect an attack with 3 or more chakra types due to complex nature of the attack and that it takes a ninja countless of years to achieve that outcome, that I don't see YM being able to redirect the attacks.

YM doesn't cancel out any attack it redirects it, and due to the explosive nature of jinton, good luck with that.

Onoki could solo, Make Itachi heavy as hell and then moving earth core to bury him.

Gaara will solo.


Or so the legend goes....


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## Turrin (Jun 18, 2013)

Since the Gokage know a-lot about MS even if they don't have specific knowledge of Itachi, Itachi's knowledge advantage isn't as decisive as it may be in other cases. So as soon as they see MS they will take Itachi very seriously. Also unfortunately for Itachi do to the raw power of the Gokage he'll be forced to pull out Susano'o right at the beginning to defend.

Than to me the match just comes down to if the Gokage can handle Susano'o and again unfortunately for Itachi the Gokage know exactly how to handle it; Gaara ripping the user out than they attack or creating an opening for Onoki super dust release. Do to overwhelming numbers it should not be hard for ether to pull these techniques off while Itachi is distracted by the other Gokage's moves. Itachi might down a Gokage like Tsunade if she tries to tank Totsuka sword with Byakugo not knowing it's sealing properties, but that's pretty much all I see him being able to accomplish here, before getting taken down and than sealed.

We saw the Gokage handling techniques that far excel anything Itachi is capable of, that they didn't know Madara had ether, such as Tree World, Flower Tree World, and 25 Susano'o Wood Clones. And ultimately it required Madara to use P-Susano'o to completely overwhelm them, something which is also far beyond Itachi's capabilities. Simply put Itachi is out number here by too many high class shinobi to prove especially effective.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 18, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> It helps, but an advantage on one side doesn't cancel out any of the advantages on the other.


 But it is a disadvantage for that other side.





> The starting distance here is not that large. Fights tend to move into close-range most of the time, anyway; the greater the distance, the more time to react and the harder it is to hit the target. The Kage didn't try to snipe Madara; they went in and unleashed combo attacks at melee range.


 Yes but Madara has much more chakra pool than Itachi does, and Onoki wiped out 25 Susanoo clones. Only ones that went in for CQC was Raikage and Tsunade with Onoki occasionally.





> The thing is, Itachi knows they can do all of this. He will coordinate his attacks to take out the Kage in the order that will maximize the probability of his victory. He also won't neglect to account for Tsunade's ability to heal damage from Tsukuyomi and would probably try to take her out early to eliminate the enemy team's medic/chakra battery.


 Why would someone with one shots take out the medic? Thing is, Itachi doesn't know how they will react to certain conditions and how they will utilize their techs along with other kages to create multiple openings from multiple directions from multiple opponents.





> Here's some more simple logic: You can't evade an attack if you don't know how or when it's going to hit you. There's no chance to see Amaterasu physically coming; by the time it's been cast, somebody's ass is on fire. The only warning sign is the blood coming from Itachi's eye, which doesn't intuitively betray anything about what the Jutsu is going to do next (or if it's even a Jutsu in the first place).


 NOPE wrong again, there has been plenty of instances where on can tell something powerfull is coming. Bee was able to throw a sword when he realized what was happening before Amaterasu was cast. The user must prep amaterasu(chakra pressure can feel), store amaterasu(bleeding), aim and then cast it. It isn't just aim and cast it takes a second and Raikage can blitz his head off before he does. And Itachi, i believe, still doesn't have any feats of using 2 MS techs at the same time.





> They won't know how to react and they won't have a chance to before the attack manifests.


 Kages don't know how to react to an attack since they don't know about it, well hell i guess everyone who's ever fought a Kage should win, cause they don't know how to react. Bee had a chance, Raikage had a chance, Do i need to continue?





> Sweep the fuck out of one or both of them with Amaterasu before they get the luxury of seeing someone else killed by it.


 To bad they have ways of countering, Gaara can deal with amaterasu easily as he can feel the pressure buildup. Also Onoki and Gaara put up a defense before Madara's magatama's could reach them, i have no doubt Gaara couldn't put up a sheet of sand to block amatarasu.





> The five Kage had substantial intel on Madara and he didn't really know anything about them.


 What intel? That he is motherfucking Madara Uchiha, they knew absolutely nothing about him, they didn't even know he was dead. And onoki had minimal intel on him.


> Here, the situation is reversed.
> 
> Itachi's faster than all of them but A; he won't give Mei a chance to trap him in Kirigakure no Jutsu if he thinks it'll be a problem for him. Itachi's better at close-range anyway, and Mei will only impair her own teammates if she uses it then. Plus, Itachi actually has consistent feats proving he can bullseye targets without a visual, while even Mei herself does not.


Impair Gaara who is one of the best sensors and can effectively solo? So Itachi is going to blitz; A, Tsunade, Mei, and Onoki in the first 15seconds of the fight.....GTFO he would be lucky to take out Mei in the first minute much less half the team.


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## Pein (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi gets stomped, Garra and Oonoki could solo itachi.


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## blk (Jun 18, 2013)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Onoki climbs onto Raikage's back and with an enormous boost in speed, pounds Itachi around like a ping pong ball. Assuming Itachi even manages to raise his Yata Mirror in time for defense, the duo zip around the shield and obliterate the chakra construct from behind with a Weight-Enhanced Lightning Punch from the Raikage.
> 
> While they're too busy playing pinball with the Uchiha, Gaara can build upon copious amounts of sand around the Susano'o and restrict its movements, or guard against potential counterattacks if need be - i.e., Amaterasu or Yasaka Magatama. Mei provides offensive support with her Suitons and Tsunade can eventually close in to add a few more punches alongside Raikage, though he doesn't need it.
> 
> Itachi gets raped.



Why would the Gokage do such things against a complete stranger (remember, no knowledge for them)? It's more likely that Gaara and/or Ei will try some small offensive, without resorting to particular combos or their strongest moves.

While the above happens, with Itachi having full intel, it's very possible that they'll be caught in genjutsu and/or ignited with Amaterasu at the very start of the fight.


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## Ashi (Jun 18, 2013)

This is practically prison gang rape


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## Ghost (Jun 18, 2013)

Full knowledge?

Tsukuyomi for Tsunade and Amaterasu for Onoki. Rest can be wiped with Totsuka.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 18, 2013)

joshhookway said:


> Location: Kages vs Madara
> SOM: IC
> Knowledge: itachi full, kages none
> Restrictions: none
> ...



Itachi with full knowledge and being an edo changes things... His ability to strategise is one of his greatest strengths after all... and being an edo means invincibility and unlimited chakra too...

Itachi knows all about oonoki's ability to wreck any level of susanoo, but yata miiro in V3 will stop it cold and tank it with it's ability to redirect all ninjutsu and elemental attacks... and yes, dust element is an element...
Itachi knows all about Mei's KKGS... V3 and yata mirror can tank them too...
Itachi knows all about gaara's huge attacks with sand and some gold dust...
Itachi knows all about raikage's speed and armour...
And itachi knows all about tsunade's strength and limited instant regeneration,

Itachi create 25 kage bushins with his unlimted chakra... each can use all of itachi's jutsu, including MS... just as well as a mokuton bushin can... Or create crow bushins which can reform once defeated, but still use all the techniques of the original too...

So, itachi uses the same strategy that madara used, but with higher level of susanoo's, with greater defenses with yata mirror to tank any ninjutsu... and greater offense with each having a totsuka sword..

This way the real itachi can sit back and watch while his kage bushin's each using V3 susanoo with yata mirror and totsuka sword, amaterasu and tsukuyomi overwhelm the kages...

Itachi can actually win in edo form with unlimited chakra....


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## Ashi (Jun 18, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Itachi with full knowledge and being an edo changes things... His ability to strategise is one of his greatest strengths after all... and being an edo means invincibility and unlimited chakra too...
> 
> Itachi knows all about oonoki's ability to wreck any level of susanoo, but yata miiro in V3 will stop it cold and tank it with it's ability to redirect all ninjutsu and elemental attacks... and yes, dust element is an element...
> Itachi knows all about Mei's KKGS... V3 and yata mirror can tank them too...
> ...



Edo doesn't mean he can spam all the jutsu he wants he still has a limit on the chakra he can expend at a time


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 18, 2013)

TensaZangetsu10 said:


> Edo doesn't mean he can spam all the jutsu he wants he still has a limit on the chakra he can expend at a time



Actually, beig an edo means exactly that!!! An edo can spam jutsu all day every day without getting tired... However, the size of their jutsu will always be the same becuase being an edo doe snot increase power, just offers infnite amount of the same power forever,,,

and since kakashi can create 25 kage bushins...  remember at the bridge when gato's men came... kakashi created about that many.... and his chakra level is nowhere near itachi's... Proof is itachi's ability to use complete susanoo which took sasuke a while to gain the power to use.... Pretty much needed EMS to use the same level of susanoo that itachi did with the MS... So itachi must have quite a large chara pool, just shifty stamina due to illness, but being an edo negates that disadvantage offering infinite chakra to itachi in edo form...

Which means even if he could only create 10 max with his chakra level... he could just use the jutsu 2 and a half times to create 25... Infinite chakra is very handy!!!

So itachi has the power.. no doubt.. one way or another to create 25 kage bushins or more., each able to use his jutsu like mokuton clones do too.....
So using the same strategy of overwhelming that madara used against the kage's but with each susanoo being V3 complete, not V2 almost complete... along with yatao mirror on each susanoo able to deflect any ninjutsu and totsuka sword able to blitz stab and seal too...

Making edo itachi's 25 kage bushin susanoo combo way more effective then even madara's!!!
.
And becuase the dust element attacks will not work due to the yata mirror on each susanoo... these cannot be defeated the same way which gives the kage's no answer against such an over haxxed, over whelming force... Remember, the use of the dust element is the only reason madara's clone susanoo combo was defeated... But itachi's clones with a greater suasnoo and yata mirror make that impossible for dust element to work at all...
Not ot mention each clone can also use amaterasu and tsukuyomi too... making this way too much for the kage, easily!!!

Edo itachi wins!!!


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

Saikyou said:


> Full knowledge?
> 
> Tsukuyomi for Tsunade and Amaterasu for Onoki. Rest can be wiped with Totsuka.



Tsunade can heal any damage from the Tsukuyomi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 18, 2013)

Itachi wins.

No knowledge means Hoakges will fall like flies to subtle OHKOers like Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu initially. 
Susano'o will clean the rest up. 

Itachi wins 7 - 8 / 10


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## LostSelf (Jun 18, 2013)

None of the kages has knowledge of Tsukuyomi,  Amaterasu and Susano'o. They being to fall one after the other by Itachi's one shot jutsus. Full knowledge for Itachi means Amaterasu for Tsunade right after he can and i dare to say he can ignite two of them or more with it since they have no idea how the jutsu works and that they cannot stop the flames.

Another factor is Tsukuyomi and Itachi's trickery with genjutsu. Something that Shinobis like Ei are vulnerable since he was looking at Sasuke's eyes quite often.

And then we have Susano'o and it's ethereal weapon. Ei has shown to be blocking Susano'o slashes against Madara, that would be a mistake. And Tsunade has been impaled by Susano'o clones weaker and with way less range than Totsuka. That's another mistake.

Full knowledge means Tsunade and another member of the party is going down quick (And i dare to say that more than two can go down with Amaterasu). The remaining three won't be able to take on Edo Itachi with minimal knowledge.

Itachi ends up winning.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

WoW. There are really some people think seriously that Itachi can win. 
I have to admit Itachi's fans surpass everyone!! Not like if they didn't say he can solo the Juubi before
but I thought they have their senses back after a while. @.@

any way each and almost every Kage can solo Itachi alone. 

1- Gaara, Can use that massive sand, and GG Itachi. 
or with onoki can take him out from the Susanoo and then GG. 

2- A, he uses his full speed as he did to Minato, one punch to his ugly face and he'll not be with his head. 

3- Onoki Jinton. GG

4- Mei uses her mist and all of Itachi's abilities is useless, then her boiling jutsu and GG. 

Tsunade the only one who will take a lot of time and might lose.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 18, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> None of the kages has knowledge of Tsukuyomi,  Amaterasu and Susano'o. They being to fall one after the other by Itachi's one shot jutsus. Full knowledge for Itachi means Amaterasu for Tsunade right after he can and i dare to say he can ignite two of them or more with it since they have no idea how the jutsu works and that they cannot stop the flames.
> 
> Another factor is Tsukuyomi and Itachi's trickery with genjutsu. Something that Shinobis like Ei are vulnerable since he was looking at Sasuke's eyes quite often.
> 
> ...



Even if they don't know about Itachi specifically, they would know how dangerous the Mangekyo Sharingan is and at least know of Amaterasu thanks to Sasuke.

Ay entered V2 in response to the Mangekyo (1), Tsunade is obviously going to activate Byakugo unless she falls back to boost up the other Kage in which case Itachi won't reach her with 4 other Kage in his way, and I'm certain Onoki won't be flying too close while Gaara keeps his sand readied around himself.

Chances are Mei will try to cloud his field of vision like they did against the Rinnegan, and Kirigakure can block Itachi's vision without blocking the sight of Mei's allies- since Itachi will see a cloud of chakra regardless of how thick it is while the other Kage won't (which I'm going to say is why Muu, Onoki, and Ay could still see in it after the Madara couldn't).

Itachi does not have Preta Path, and I don't believe Yata can negate Jinton since it's composed of three separate chakra natures- so Onoki vaporizes it once his vision is clouded, and if you think Yata can withstand it, Onoki circles around and vaporizes instead.

Ay blocking Totsuka's slash won't be a mistake, as it can't seal him unless it manages to impale him. Tsunade isn't dealing with 5 different Susano'o here so she probably won't feel the need to try and tank the blade to land a hit (she doesn't forget she can dodge once Byakugo is up- hence Ay saying she was _getting_ sloppy as if she hadn't been so readily tanking things before), especially when she's got allies with ranged techniques they can use- so she can just focus on keeping out of Itachi's range.

Gaara can restrain Susano'o like he did Madara's (meaning Yata can't be moved to protect Itachi from the offenses of the other Kage), or shield everyone with sand when Itachi's eye starts bleeding. Tsunade has healed Tsukuyomi's effects with a tap to the head before and will do it again if necessary. Mei can still block Itachi's line of sight before ever inhibiting her comrades' ability to see. Ay can still dodge whatever Itachi throws his way. And Onoki has no Preta Path to worry about with his Jinton.

Even on the off-chance Itachi one-shots a Kage right off the bat, any combination of the remaining ones will suffice.

Regardless of knowledge, Itachi- Edo or not, will never solo the Gokage whether he has knowledge and they don't unless you restrict all of the Gokage's jutsu. That is a top-tier thing and top-tier thing only, and all of the top-tiers stomp Itachi.


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## Joakim3 (Jun 18, 2013)

Under normal circumstances..... Itachi gets steamrolled into utter oblivion

But thanks to the knowledge disparity he _can_ win, this being said his only shot is insta one shooting Onoki/Gaara via _Amaterasu_ or _Tsukuyomai_, and going on a Totsuka rampage from their on out. 

If the Gokage at any time start layer attacks and combining offenses, Itachi is getting destroyed, he literally has to end this before the match "begins"


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## Immortal (Jun 18, 2013)

This depends entirely on how fast Itachi would kill Onoki. If Itachi was bloodlusted I could see him Amaterasu/Tsukoyomi 'ing Onoki right off the bat which eliminates some of the best support and the only attack - Jinton - that would even have a chance of breaking Yata. So if Onoki goes down quick, I think Itachi could pull out the win here. 

But without bloodlust I don't see Itachi lethally attacking Onoki right away and if the Gokage get enough time to pull some combos and get Itachi out of Susano'o then they could probably defeat him.


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## Immortal (Jun 18, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> WoW. There are really some people think seriously that Itachi can win.
> I have to admit Itachi's fans surpass everyone!! Not like if they didn't say he can solo the Juubi before
> but I thought they have their senses back after a while. @.@
> 
> ...



I can understand why some people would be annoyed by Itachi fans overhyping him, but I've always seen that the Itachi haters are much more unrealistic with their expectations than the semi-reasonable Itachi fans. 

To say that Mei, Raikage or Gaara could solo Edo Itachi on their own is ridiculously laughable.


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## Rain (Jun 18, 2013)

itachi soloes yet another battle with 0 difficulty.

srsly, u shud maike no nowledge for Ichuta and restrict his jutsu.


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## LostSelf (Jun 18, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Even if they don't know about Itachi specifically, they would know how dangerous the Mangekyo Sharingan is and at least know of Amaterasu thanks to Sasuke.



I think the OP tried to say no knowledge on anything. I think he will need to specify this.



> Ay entered V2 in response to the Mangekyo (1), Tsunade is obviously going to activate Byakugo unless she falls back to boost up the other Kage in which case Itachi won't reach her with 4 other Kage in his way, and I'm certain Onoki won't be flying too close while Gaara keeps his sand readied around himself.



Ei would be safe from Amaterasu. However, he has to look at Itachi's eyes to know when he's gonna use it therefore Itachi can trick him and place him in Tsukuyomi. He was prepared with Sasuke because he knew he was an Uchiha. he doesn't know about this either now.

Gaara's sand is not reacting to Amaterasu either.

Tsunade's byakugo would not help her at all against Amaterasu, It will only prolong her death making it much more painful. The other kages can do nothing as well to save her. Itachi doesn't need to get crazy with the five of them. With two he kills taking them by surprise with his instant attacks it's more than enough to have this fight in his bag.



> Chances are Mei will try to cloud his field of vision like they did against the Rinnegan, and Kirigakure can block Itachi's vision without blocking the sight of Mei's allies- since Itachi will see a cloud of chakra regardless of how thick it is while the other Kage won't (which I'm going to say is why Muu, Onoki, and Ay could still see in it after the Madara couldn't).



Why would she? They are five kages with absolutely no knowledge against Itachi. Against Madara is diferent. I doubt they will even feel the need to teamwork with that pressure against a kid. Unless, of course, it's too late.



> Itachi does not have Preta Path, and I don't believe Yata can negate Jinton since it's composed of three separate chakra natures- so Onoki vaporizes it once his vision is clouded, and if you think Yata can withstand it, Onoki circles around and vaporizes instead.



I believe Yata can tank it. it has the hype of doing so. Itachi can also just turn around or bunshin feint. 



> Ay blocking Totsuka's slash won't be a mistake, as it can't seal him unless it manages to impale him. Tsunade isn't dealing with 5 different Susano'o here so she probably won't feel the need to try and tank the blade to land a hit (she doesn't forget she can dodge once Byakugo is up- hence Ay saying she was _getting_ sloppy as if she hadn't been so readily tanking things before), especially when she's got allies with ranged techniques they can use- so she can just focus on keeping out of Itachi's range.



Of course i believe the blade can slash Ei or pierce him. The blade effectively pierced Nagato, who has shown way better durability feats than Ei. Either way, he can pierce Tsunade (If he hasn't killed her with Ammy,



> Gaara can restrain Susano'o like he did Madara's (meaning Yata can't be moved to protect Itachi from the offenses of the other Kage), or shield everyone with sand when Itachi's eye starts bleeding. Tsunade has healed Tsukuyomi's effects with a tap to the head before and will do it again if necessary. Mei can still block Itachi's line of sight before ever inhibiting her comrades' ability to see. Ay can still dodge whatever Itachi throws his way. And Onoki has no Preta Path to worry about with his Jinton.



Yeah, but this is a maneuver based on the kages having complete knowledge on Itachi's abilities and with the same sense of danger they faced against Madara. When it's not. With no knowledge whatsoever, what is the need of the kages being forced to teamwork while at the same time they are preparing themselves for Itachi's attack when they have absolutely no idea of his jutsus?

E





> ven on the off-chance Itachi one-shots a Kage right off the bat, any combination of the remaining ones will suffice.



If he kills Gaara, the kages have nothing to stop him since Gaara is the only one with a sealing jutsu. And considering he has full knowledge, they doesn't and he's an Edo with an instant jutsu, I bet my money on him managing to do so even if he has to risk his body. After all, he's just a teen for them and they are the 5 mighty kages.



> Regardless of knowledge, Itachi- Edo or not, will never solo the Gokage whether he has knowledge and they don't unless you restrict all of the Gokage's jutsu. That is a top-tier thing and top-tier thing only, and all of the top-tiers stomp Itachi.



Of course he can. Take out Gaara and they cannot kill him. He has the weapons to one shot them regardless of byakugo or anything. They have no knowledge on that. therefore they are vulnerable.


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## Ricky Sen (Jun 18, 2013)

Current Itachi only has one eye so he can't use half of his MS. 

Gokage stomp


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## narut0ninjafan (Jun 18, 2013)

Tsukuyomi needs close eye contact. He's not landing Tsukuyomi on any of the Kages. He also needs some time to use it. The Kages aren't going to stand in close range and just let him use it. 

Gokages rape. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being delusional or trolling. There's really not much need to go into much more detail.

Also, why do people believe that Yata Mirror, which barely tanked a Kirin can tank Jinton, yet Byakugou, which is hyped as making Tsunade immortal and is supported by the author's portrayal is countered by "headshot GG"? I guess some people think it's fine to just selectively accept hype (which hasn't even been really supported) when it comes to characters they like, yet refuse hype AND author portrayal for characters they don't like?


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## FlamingRain (Jun 18, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> I think the OP tried to say no knowledge on anything. I think he will need to specify this.
> 
> Ei would be safe from Amaterasu. However, he has to look at Itachi's eyes to know when he's gonna use it therefore Itachi can trick him and place him in Tsukuyomi. He was prepared with Sasuke because he knew he was an Uchiha. he doesn't know about this either now.
> 
> ...



Well I'm assuming they just don't know Itachi specifically has the techniques so much as they don't know what the techniques are. It just seems weird to me. For example, Jiraiya had no idea Nagato had the Rinnegan but when he saw it he knew what it was. Hiruzen didn't know Orochimaru had Edo Tensei, but still knew what Edo Tensei itself did.

Or just his face in general and not direct since there will be blood. He was prepared with Sasuke because he saw the Sharingan, which he will see here. Ay does not have to sit there and look Itachi in the eyes just waiting for blood either, and Itachi catching Ay just glancing at him shouldn't do anything- Tsukuyomi is still a conscious technique, and he actually took the time to hold Kakashi ('s clone) in place to use it.

And yes Gaara can put up a sand shield faster than blood runs down Itachi's cheek.

Except be in her way, since she'll be supporting from behind, and Itachi can't target her with someone blocking his LoS with her.



> Why would she? They are five kages with absolutely no knowledge against Itachi. Against Madara is diferent. I doubt they will even feel the need to teamwork with that pressure against a kid. Unless, of course, it's too late.



Because Itachi has superpowered eyes and Mei's mist isn't a taxing maneuver. She isn't stupid and the mist will block Itachi's LoS with all of the Kage not just herself. It's something that would be logical to do even one-on-one; it just so happens that it benefits her team as well.



> I believe Yata can tank it. it has the hype of doing so. Itachi can also just turn around or bunshin feint.



It has the hype like Byakugo making Tsunade impossible to kill, which you disagree with.

So let's look at how Yata works: it tanks by changing its own chakra nature to counter the offense, and I see no reason to believe it can switch around three at once.

Even _if_ he can switch to a Suiton, Katon, and Raiton at the same time to block the Katon, Futon, and Doton, one of his natures weakens the next one while none of Onoki's do the same. Meanwhile is still Doton > Suiton, and Futon > Raiton, so yeah I'm not seeing it.

He won't know to do those things while he'd blinded by Kirigakure. He won't see Onoki go behind him, or above or wherever Onoki goes.



> Of course i believe the blade can slash Ei or pierce him. The blade effectively pierced Nagato, who has shown way better durability feats than Ei. Either way, he can pierce Tsunade (If he hasn't killed her with Ammy,



It pierced Nagato, it did not slash him. You said Ay blocking a _slash_ might be a mistake, and I'm saying blocking a _slash_ wouldn't be. Of course, its also possible Ay only opted to block because he had just dodged another swing when the follow-up came after him, but Itachi has only one Susano'o.

And I didn't say he couldn't pierce through Tsunade, though that will be more difficult to do when she's not the only one he has to worry about.



> Yeah, but this is a maneuver based on the kages having complete knowledge on Itachi's abilities and with the same sense of danger they faced against Madara. When it's not. With no knowledge whatsoever, what is the need of the kages being forced to teamwork while at the same time they are preparing themselves for Itachi's attack when they have absolutely no idea of his jutsus?
> 
> If he kills Gaara, the kages have nothing to stop him since Gaara is the only one with a sealing jutsu. And considering he has full knowledge, they doesn't and he's an Edo with an instant jutsu, I bet my money on him managing to do so even if he has to risk his body. After all, he's just a teen for them and they are the 5 mighty kages.



Not really. Giant chakra armor manifests; restraining it is not something you do only if you have complete knowledge- it's common sense. Plus they've seen Sasuke's and would be familiar with it.

Gaara has the quickest method of sealing, I don't think that means he's the only one that can seal him. Onoki forming a rock around Itachi with tags on it, like he did to the Zetsu in the Kage Summit, should work just as well.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 Btw Itachi was 21 by the start of Part 2, not a teen. And apparently another year passed before he died since start of P2 Naruto was 15 and Tobi said the Kyuubi attacked 16 years ago. Itachi is a grown-ass man.


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## LostSelf (Jun 18, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Well I'm assuming they just don't know Itachi specifically has the techniques so much as they don't know what the techniques are. It just seems weird to me. For example, Jiraiya had no idea Nagato had the Rinnegan but when he saw it he knew what it was. Hiruzen didn't know Orochimaru had Edo Tensei, but still knew what Edo Tensei itself did.



That makes sense.



> Or just his face in general and not direct since there will be blood. He was prepared with Sasuke because he saw the Sharingan, which he will see here. Ay does not have to sit there and look Itachi in the eyes just waiting for blood either, and Itachi catching Ay just glancing at him shouldn't do anything- Tsukuyomi is still a conscious technique, and he actually took the time to hold Kakashi ('s clone) in place to use it.



We should be aware that Itachi wasn't going all out with Kakashi, almost any feat Kakashi got there are not very valid. If Ei looks at Itachi's eyes not expecting Tsukuyomi to be used he can be put down. As well as the others.



> And yes Gaara can put up a sand shield faster than blood runs down Itachi's cheek.



Unlikely. If that were the case, anybody could dodge it and we've seen is not that simple as the flames just shooting after the blood runs from his eyes and Ei wouldn't even need V1 to dodge such attack. Ei's speed is way bigger than Gaara's shield and he needed V2 to dodge it.

Gaara is not putting a shield in time.



> Except be in her way, since she'll be supporting from behind, and Itachi can't target her with someone blocking his LoS with her.



Then why would she use byakugo?



> Because Itachi has superpowered eyes and Mei's mist isn't a taxing maneuver. She isn't stupid and the mist will block Itachi's LoS with all of the Kage not just herself. It's something that would be logical to do even one-on-one; it just so happens that it benefits her team as well.



Fact is that when they figure out that, one of them will be dead. I place my bet on Gaara. I still don't see why Ei wil lgo V2, Gaara will have his sand shield around, Tsunade will take a defensive position and Mei will block his line of sight that fast,

I mean, we are assuming that the 5 renowed kages will get into a defensive position with literally no knowledge of Itachi. This is not the case. Itachi won't just walk like crazy with MS activated.

The guy is smarter than any of them here and he's not the kind of shinobi that overpowers you. He finds openings. And with no knowledge on him, being 5 Kages that i bet will have all the courage in the world against this skinny, pale and young man instead of maneuvering like Madara. I don't doubt they would if they have knowledge.

Without it they are not beggining that way. And it's very likely than Itachi surprises them with MS.



> It has the hype like Byakugo making Tsunade impossible to kill, which you disagree with.



Not exactly the same hype. A DB Hype is not the same as hype coming from a character in the manga. DB hype has been refuted too many times.



> So let's look at how Yata works: it tanks by changing its own chakra nature to counter the offense, and I see no reason to believe it can switch around three at once.



Yata has shown to have all elements incorpored. And it's description says it changes it nature to take on any attack  by changing its own quality accordingly. 



> Even _if_ he can switch to a Suiton, Katon, and Raiton at the same time to block the Katon, Futon, and Doton, one of his natures weakens the next one while none of Onoki's do the same. Meanwhile is still Doton > Suiton, and Futon > Raiton, so yeah I'm not seeing it.



If Jinton is three elements fused, why would we count them as separate? Yata Mirror has not shown any limits yet. I dare to say it can change it's own properties to take on the fusioned elements doing the same. After all, it can change its properties depending on the type of attack.



> He won't know to do those things while he'd blinded by Kirigakure. He won't see Onoki go behind him, or above or wherever Onoki goes.



I already explained this above, though.



> It pierced Nagato, it did not slash him. You said Ay blocking a _slash_ might be a mistake, and I'm saying blocking a _slash_ wouldn't be. Of course, its also possible Ay only opted to block because he had just dodged another swing when the follow-up came after him, but Itachi has only one Susano'o.



Yeah, i said "or pierce". With Ei's speed i doubt he was put in that position..



> And I didn't say he couldn't pierce through Tsunade, though that will be more difficult to do when she's not the only one he has to worry about.



Never said it would not be more difficult.



> Not really. Giant chakra armor manifests; restraining it is not something you do only if you have complete knowledge- it's common sense. Plus they've seen Sasuke's and would be familiar with it.



Of course. IF some of them survived the first surprise having no knowledge. This is assuming they will figure that Itachi has all of Sasuke's jutsus. Again, the point is countering Amaterasu with no knowledge. Naruto and Bee knew Itachi could use it. And they did nothing when Itachi closed his eye in order to use it. In fact, Itachi activated Amaterasu quick. The jutsu he took his time to activate was Koto amatsukami.

Not to mention that he ignited two targets at once and with flames big enough to cover more than one body and at fair distance and even Naruto reacted after the jutsu was used.



> Gaara has the quickest method of sealing, I don't think that means he's the only one that can seal him. Onoki forming a rock around Itachi with tags on it, like he did to the Zetsu in the Kage Summit, should work just as well.



Onoki had to petrify Zetzu in order to do that. I don't remember him sealing it, though.



> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> Btw Itachi was 21 by the start of Part 2, not a teen. And apparently another year passed before he died since start of P2 Naruto was 15 and Tobi said the Kyuubi attacked 16 years ago. Itachi is a grown-ass man.



Still a very young man that they know nothing about.


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## ImSerious (Jun 18, 2013)

gaara pulls itachi out of susano, it goes downhill for him from there.


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## Immortal (Jun 18, 2013)

What makes people think that Itachi can be pulled out of his Susano'o when Madara was only taken out of the Bone/level 1 Susano'o and Itachi has the Yata Mirror?


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## ImSerious (Jun 18, 2013)

Immortal said:


> What makes people think that Itachi can be pulled out of his Susano'o when Madara was only taken out of the Bone/level 1 Susano'o



What makes you think he cant be pulled out?



> and Itachi has the Yata Mirror?



What does that have to do with anything?


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

Immortal said:


> I can understand why some people would be annoyed by Itachi fans overhyping him, but I've always seen that the Itachi haters are much more unrealistic with their expectations than the semi-reasonable Itachi fans.
> 
> To say that Mei, Raikage or Gaara could solo Edo Itachi on their own is ridiculously laughable.



Mei has her mist and that make the Sharingan helpless, go and see Kakashi Vs Zabuza
again. Also, Mei fought 5 of the Susanoo at least for 10 chapters Itachi won't stand that long. 

Gaara is a long rank fighter, while Itachi is a close rank fighter. Gaara already stopped the 
Amaterasu, and he already pulled Madara out of the Susanoo, what the hell does Itachi have
more? his genjutsu should be very close to gaara to land on him, and even if that happened
the sand will protect him from any jutsu by itself. As Mei, Gaara fought 5 of the Susanoo at the
same time. 

and for the Raikage his speed only Minato and Naruto avoided it, Itachi won't avoid anything. 
and I don't care about Itachi's fans bullshit of him putting A under the Genjutsu that eaisly 
it took Madara 5 of the Susanoo to do so, and that only because A was talking with Tsunade. 
and for the Amaterasu he already dodged it  and it won't be hard to do so again. 

and it's indeed ridiculously laughable to think those who fought the EMS, Wood and Rinngan
user will lose that eaisly against MS user. Even Madara got his ass kicked the only thing made
him survive is because he's an edo. 

I won't go too long with this because it's so F obvious who will win. just talking about Itachi
having a chance made me feel retarded let alone think he will really win.


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## ATastyMuffin (Jun 18, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> and it's indeed ridiculously laughable to think those who fought the EMS, Wood and Rinngan
> user will lose that eaisly against MS user. Even Madara got his ass kicked the only thing made
> his survive is because he's an edo.



Uh, right, it's not as if Madara had them at his mercy when they all dozed off due to the pollen. Or, heck, during the entire fight wherein he could ended it any time just by pulling out Perfect Susano'o. The entire confrontation was just a little game to Madara.


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## Laix (Jun 18, 2013)

The itachi wank is painful 

Gokage win, with difficulty, but they win.


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## Trojan (Jun 18, 2013)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Uh, right, it's not as if Madara had them at his mercy when they all dozed off due to the pollen. Or, heck, during the entire fight wherein he could ended it any time just by pulling out Perfect Susano'o. The entire confrontation was just a little game to Madara.



- Onoki destroyed that pollen btw. 
- his arrogance is his OWN problem, it's part of his character I WON"T overlook it
just because you don't like it. What happened to him because of that DID happen. 
Therefore, you just can't deny it, say whatever you want because that won't change it. 

just like how lee cut him in half, no one is responsible for his personality.


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## FlamingRain (Jun 18, 2013)

TheIronMan said:


> We should be aware that Itachi wasn't going all out with Kakashi, almost any feat Kakashi got there are not very valid. If Ei looks at Itachi's eyes not expecting Tsukuyomi to be used he can be put down. As well as the others.



Unfortunately it's like the only thing we have to go by. We have no examples of instant Tsukuyomi and I don't see why Itachi, intent on knocking Kakashi out, would slow down while doing so.

The other Kage are likely to remain at a distance and out of close direct eye contact anyway.

And Ay _was_ wary of the Sharingan's techniques against Sasuke, and C even states that was _why_ he was keeping his chakras pumped up to V2. So I see him to do the same here. And Ay can notice their eyes meet and glance away quicker than any genjutsu's activation, as his reflexes are superior and he has no more actions to take to avoid it than Itachi to cast it.



> Unlikely. If that were the case, anybody could dodge it and we've seen is not that simple as the flames just shooting after the blood runs from his eyes and Ei wouldn't even need V1 to dodge such attack. Ei's speed is way bigger than Gaara's shield and he needed V2 to dodge it.
> 
> Gaara is not putting a shield in time.



That's because Itachi can turn his head before the flames themselves are shot if someone dodges, like he did with Sasuke.

But in this case Gaara's sand is just going to be up in front of him once blood goes down Itachi's cheek, and then Ammy manifests, but there's stuff in the way, so Gaara is okay.



> Then why would she use byakugo?



Idk. I was really only trying to get across they would take the MS seriously as soon as it comes out.



> Fact is that when they figure out that, one of them will be dead. I place my bet on Gaara. I still don't see why Ei wil lgo V2, Gaara will have his sand shield around, Tsunade will take a defensive position and Mei will block his line of sight that fast,
> 
> I mean, we are assuming that the 5 renowed kages will get into a defensive position with literally no knowledge of Itachi. This is not the case. Itachi won't just walk like crazy with MS activated.
> 
> ...



Itachi being smart does not make the Kage stupid in return. They'll do it because it's the logical thing to do once they see the Sharingan whether they have knowledge on Itachi's specifics or not, and whether they work as a team or not those would be the actions they most likely take.

Teaming up just from seeing the Sharingan is common practice according to Chiyo, though. And the Mangekyo in particular is a threat even for Kage levels. Why would they not take the quickest and easiest route?

And especially when the mist can just block his sight anyway? It isn't even one of her stronger techniques, nor is it costly (should be _less_ costly than her other jutsu), but it is effective against someone reliant upon their eyes for their jutsu, so it's logically going to be the first to come out even if Mei isn't working with the others right away (which she may very well be).

They would do that because that is what seeing the Mangekyo caused them to do in canon already during the Kage Summit.



> Not exactly the same hype. A DB Hype is not the same as hype coming from a character in the manga. DB hype has been refuted too many times.



No it's exactly the same.

Sozo Saisei's hype came from a character in the manga before it was ever released in the databook. . .the databook says the _same thing_ a character in the manga said, just as it does with Yata.



> I dare to say it can change it's own properties to take on the fusioned elements doing the same. After all, it can change its properties depending on the type of attack.



Against most attacks I'm sure it can change its properties and defend. Jinton isn't a conventional opposition though, and I don't see why Yata would be able to merge 3 different natures.

Just having three natures you can switch between doesn't automatically grant you the ability to merge them together at once. That's why we don't see Kakuzu using Jinton or anyone else's Kekkei Genkai.



> With Ei's speed i doubt he was put in that position.



He could have been. Five separate enemies who we see weren't all to one side of Ay (meaning not all were in his field of vision), one could wait while Ay dodges another and doesn't know the next one is behind him until its already swinging, and he was in V1 at least when we saw him.



> Of course. IF some of them survived the first surprise having no knowledge. This is assuming they will figure that Itachi has all of Sasuke's jutsus. Again, the point is countering Amaterasu with no knowledge. Naruto and Bee knew Itachi could use it. And they did nothing when Itachi closed his eye in order to use it. In fact, Itachi activated Amaterasu quick. The jutsu he took his time to activate was Koto amatsukami.
> 
> Not to mention that he ignited two targets at once and with flames big enough to cover more than one body and at fair distance and even Naruto reacted after the jutsu was used.



They don't need to figure out Itachi has all of Sasuke's jutsu  to think putting up a defense against an MS user such as Kirigakure or sand shields is a good idea. Recognizing the Sharingan and especially the Mangekyo will make them do that. They do not need someone to get lit on fire first.

Naruto was looking at a crow when Itachi used it and only looked back at Itachi after it had already been activated. So of course he only reacted after the jutsu was used. Bee wasn't even in Itachi's line of sight, why would he do anything? And we don't know if he prepared any defense for himself or not regardless because he wasn't on panel. Nagato _did_ have time before the flames appeared and spent it telling Itachi he figured out what he was doing.

Koto took no longer than Ammy, if anything it took effect faster unless you're counting the crow's emergence as part of Koto's activation.



> Onoki had to petrify Zetzu in order to do that.



Which he can do to a regenerating Itachi. It'd be easy to put sealing tags on the rock.


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## Hero (Jun 18, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Since the Gokage know a-lot about MS even if they don't have specific knowledge of Itachi, Itachi's knowledge advantage isn't as decisive as it may be in other cases. So as soon as they see MS they will take Itachi very seriously. Also unfortunately for Itachi do to the raw power of the Gokage he'll be forced to pull out Susano'o right at the beginning to defend.
> 
> Than to me the match just comes down to if the Gokage can handle Susano'o and again unfortunately for Itachi the Gokage know exactly how to handle it; Gaara ripping the user out than they attack or creating an opening for Onoki super dust release. Do to overwhelming numbers it should not be hard for ether to pull these techniques off while Itachi is distracted by the other Gokage's moves. Itachi might down a Gokage like Tsunade if she tries to tank Totsuka sword with Byakugo not knowing it's sealing properties, but that's pretty much all I see him being able to accomplish here, before getting taken down and than sealed.
> 
> We saw the Gokage handling techniques that far excel anything Itachi is capable of, that they didn't know Madara had ether, such as Tree World, Flower Tree World, and 25 Susano'o Wood Clones. And ultimately it required Madara to use P-Susano'o to completely overwhelm them, something which is also far beyond Itachi's capabilities. Simply put Itachi is out number here by too many high class shinobi to prove especially effective.



/thread

Turrin basically gives the situation. I made a thread similar and the Gokage win. Itachi isn't that powerful of a character that he can take upon 5 characters of that caliber.

Besides he isn't a Madara. He's going to be sealed.


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## Ashi (Jun 19, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Actually, beig an edo means exactly that!!! An edo can spam jutsu all day every day without getting tired... However, the size of their jutsu will always be the same becuase being an edo doe snot increase power, just offers infnite amount of the same power forever,,,
> 
> and since kakashi can create 25 kage bushins...  remember at the bridge when gato's men came... kakashi created about that many.... and his chakra level is nowhere near itachi's... Proof is itachi's ability to use complete susanoo which took sasuke a while to gain the power to use.... Pretty much needed EMS to use the same level of susanoo that itachi did with the MS... So itachi must have quite a large chara pool, just shifty stamina due to illness, but being an edo negates that disadvantage offering infinite chakra to itachi in edo form...
> 
> ...




Dude madara had monstrous strength to begin with him being edo didn't mean he can spam Justus like you're implying itachi's stamina is no where near madara's stop making assumptions and passing them as facts >.>


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## tanman (Jun 19, 2013)

Any of the kage soloing is laughable Recall that he has full knowledge.
If they win, it will take the absolute sum of their efforts (except for Mei, ).


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## IchLiebe (Jun 19, 2013)

They may not have knowledg on Itachi

But they still do know of Amaterasu, MS genjutsu, and Susanoo thanks to there encounters with Sasuke. You can't take away their manga knowledge of other characters tha use identical techs.


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## Laix (Jun 19, 2013)

Itachi uses susano - Mei weakens, Tsunade/Ay begin smashing it to pieces if/before Gaara yanks him out.

Itachi uses fireball/other fire techniques - Mei counters with water.

Itachi uses amateratsu - He's not burning them all at once without doing significant damage to himself. It isn't slowing A down and Tsunade can heal any damage done from it.

Itachi uses yasaka magatama - Not sure about the others but Tsunade in byakugou mode will tank it. A might tank it but I'm not sure.

Itachi uses Izanami - It's hard to say what will happen but it would probably hurt the group. I don't see them being wiped out completely from it though.

Itachi uses genjutsu/tsukuyomi - One of them will break the other out of it.

On the other hand...

Onoki's Jinton - Itachi has no counter for it.

Mei's Mist & Water - Mei isn't going to be doing much other than countering Itachi's fireballs and weakning his susano'o with her mist. She's a support in this battle at best so she could probably get taken out.

Tsunade's Healing & Strength - If Tsunade gets the chance she could probably smash Itachi's susanoo. If she summoned Katsuyu too to backup the Kages, it can keep them going longer. Katsuyu, in even her small form, tanked Pain's strongest technique that easily destroyed the whole of Konoha. 

Raikage's Speed, Strength & Durability - Due to A's durability it's going to take a heavy hit to bring him down. Plus he's too fast to be caught by the genjutsu. Madara only caught him because he was distracted by a brief conversation with Tsunade.

Gaara - His sand can be used to block some attacks. It could block amateratsu but it's all on timing. Gaara will probably not make it in time.

It's not an easy battle but Gokage win. High - Mid difficulty.


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## Dr. White (Jun 19, 2013)

Lol at people thinking Kages will have their team synchronization skills as they such when they fought Madara.

1st: The Kages were in a fucking war in which if they did not get together and fight perfectly, the plane twould become a big game of the SIMS. This greatly added to htem being able to put the past behind them and forge a strong team.

2nd: Naruto was a big deciding factor in all of this, giving Ei a level head about things and influencing the Kages to ultimately band together, and have Onooki go Rambo on mothablucka's.

3rd: The only reason they were fighting so vivasciously, and once again synchronized was because off the fear, and respect of fighting the name Madara Uchiha. The Kages knew from the get this friend wasn't playing especially when Onooki was almost given a stroke trying to contain 2 meteors from the onset off the fight. In short they were forced to fight as hard as they did.

Here they have no knowledge, and even with knowledge I don't see them treating him any different than Taka Sasuke. So essentially you have Edo Itachi breaking into the Kage Summit which happens to be hosted somewhere different. We saw how much love, and respect was in the air at the Summit, and how each kage individually couldn't even kill the inexperienced Sasuke. Itachi is doezens of times smarter, and battle experienced with genjutsu that can OHKO or even kill, and a far superior Susano. Oh yeah he is an edo here too...

Bad Matchup: They need someone more skilled like Minato, or even Mu.


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## Laix (Jun 19, 2013)

^ looooooooooooool


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## Immortal (Jun 19, 2013)

Laix said:


> Itachi uses susano - Mei weakens, Tsunade/Ay begin smashing it to pieces if/before Gaara yanks him out.



Yata mirror tanks any of these things unless you're assuming Itachi would only use Partial Susano'o, which obviously the Gokage can get around.



Laix said:


> Itachi uses fireball/other fire techniques - Mei counters with water.



I'll give you that for sure, even though speed wise Itachi's katons have the best feats.



Laix said:


> Itachi uses amateratsu - He's not burning them all at once without doing significant damage to himself. It isn't slowing A down and Tsunade can heal any damage done from it.



Amatersu would damn well slow A down lmao. Hitting A is the problem, and I don't think Itachi could hit the Raikage with Amaterasu anyways since Sasuke has demonstrated better feats with Amaterasu and he failed to do so. Tsunade can't heal the damage from it though... the fire won't stop burning, she'd run out of chakra first. Amatersu could easily take Onoki, Mei or Tsunade out of the fight and losing any of these three is a huge blow to the Gokage. If Mei dies, Itachi doesn't have his vision obscured. If Tsunade dies the Gokage become extremely fragile and if Onoki dies you've lost your strongest offense and all of your versatility.



Laix said:


> Itachi uses yasaka magatama - Not sure about the others but Tsunade in byakugou mode will tank it. A might tank it but I'm not sure.



Yeah we know next to nothing about Magatama so we shouldn't get into this too much. I assume Tsunade could tank it.



Laix said:


> Itachi uses Izanami - It's hard to say what will happen but it would probably hurt the group. I don't see them being wiped out completely from it though.



I agree with this.



Laix said:


> Itachi uses genjutsu/tsukuyomi - One of them will break the other out of it.



It's not that simple. Tsukoyomi takes a second to fuck your shit up. Tsunade would need to get Katsuyu attached to everyone for immediate genjutsu dispelling but that's clearly OOC for Tsunade to do as she didn't do it against Madara and Tsukoymi will be most effective at the start of the match before Tsunade could even get Katsuyu out. Right off the bat one of the Gokage will fall to Tsukoyomi and another will fall to Amaterasu. I'd bank on the two Gokage being Mei and Onoki since Itachi has knowledge. And with that quick strike it'd be gg especially since Tsunade doesn't have knowledge of Totsuka, which she'd try to tank.



Laix said:


> On the other hand...
> 
> Onoki's Jinton - Itachi has no counter for it.



Do you know what the Yata mirror is? Because clearly you didn't include it in your posts.



Laix said:


> Mei's Mist & Water - Mei isn't going to be doing much other than countering Itachi's fireballs and weakning his susano'o with her mist. She's a support in this battle at best so she could probably get taken out.



Agreed here. Her suitons negate Itachi katons, but not Amaterasu. Also she can't use her acid mist unless she wants to burn her comrades as well.



Laix said:


> Tsunade's Healing & Strength - If Tsunade gets the chance she could probably smash Itachi's susanoo. If she summoned Katsuyu too to backup the Kages, it can keep them going longer. Katsuyu, in even her small form, tanked Pain's strongest technique that easily destroyed the whole of Konoha.



She could smash the Bone Susano'o, but she can't smash Yata Mirror Susano'o. Besides, if she got that close she would easily be sealed, Amaterasu'd or genjutsu'd. 



Laix said:


> Raikage's Speed, Strength & Durability - Due to A's durability it's going to take a heavy hit to bring him down. Plus he's too fast to be caught by the genjutsu. Madara only caught him because he was distracted by a brief conversation with Tsunade.



A won't be in constant motion as shown in the Madara fight. If Madara can catch Raikage in genjutsu, Itachi def can. The bigger issue with Raikage is that he can't do shit to Itachi. His strongest attack only cracked Sasuke's basic ribcage Susano'o. Itachi's is far superior, especially with Yata.



Laix said:


> Gaara - His sand can be used to block some attacks. It could block amateratsu but it's all on timing. Gaara will probably not make it in time.



Its funny because you're underestimating the kage that are most difficult for Itachi to take down - Gaara and Onoki. Gaara can defend from Amaterasu which is huge. That said, he's going to need to use his eyes or his third eye to properly defend from Amaterasu and if he does that, he'll be trapped in genjutsu.



Laix said:


> It's not an easy battle but Gokage win. High - Mid difficulty.



I dunno, since its Edo Itachi who is bloodlusted I disagree. I see no reason why Itachi wouldn't immediately wipe out two kage with Tskoyomi to one and Amaterasu to another. I see Onoki and Mei being the first targets and Itachi would have to grind the other three down a bit before pulling out the win, but since stamina isn't an issue for Edo Itachi I think he wins it.


----------



## Doge (Jun 19, 2013)

Immortal said:


> Yata mirror tanks any of these things unless you're assuming Itachi would only use Partial Susano'o, which obviously the Gokage can get around.



Itachi can't whip his shield to the backside faster than lightened Raikage.  



Immortal said:


> Amatersu would damn well slow A down lmao. Hitting A is the problem, and I don't think Itachi could hit the Raikage with Amaterasu anyways since Sasuke has demonstrated better feats with Amaterasu and he failed to do so. Tsunade can't heal the damage from it though... the fire won't stop burning, she'd run out of chakra first. Amatersu could easily take Onoki, Mei or Tsunade out of the fight and losing any of these three is a huge blow to the Gokage. If Mei dies, Itachi doesn't have his vision obscured. If Tsunade dies the Gokage become extremely fragile and if Onoki dies you've lost your strongest offense and all of your versatility.



Itachi wouldn't opt to use Amaterasu at all.  He'd get punished unless he goes Susanoo immediately.



Immortal said:


> Yeah we know next to nothing about Magatama so we shouldn't get into this too much. I assume Tsunade could tank it.



Probably, she tanked Madara's.



Immortal said:


> It's not that simple. Tsukoyomi takes a second to fuck your shit up. Tsunade would need to get Katsuyu attached to everyone for immediate genjutsu dispelling but that's clearly OOC for Tsunade to do as she didn't do it against Madara and Tsukoymi will be most effective at the start of the match before Tsunade could even get Katsuyu out. Right off the bat one of the Gokage will fall to Tsukoyomi and another will fall to Amaterasu. I'd bank on the two Gokage being Mei and Onoki since Itachi has knowledge. And with that quick strike it'd be gg especially since Tsunade doesn't have knowledge of Totsuka, which she'd try to tank.



Itachi has to stand around and cast Tsukuyomi for 3 seconds without the possibility of using another MS tech.  Raikage could easily blitz him in that time frame and he'll be at the disadvantage.  Even more so if he casts ama right after.



Immortal said:


> Do you know what the Yata mirror is? Because clearly you didn't include it in your posts.



There's a backside to susanoo.



Immortal said:


> Agreed here. Her suitons negate Itachi katons, but not Amaterasu. Also she can't use her acid mist unless she wants to burn her comrades as well.



Why can't Amterasu be contained?  How would it burn through lava or water indefinitely quickly?



Immortal said:


> She could smash the Bone Susano'o, but she can't smash Yata Mirror Susano'o. Besides, if she got that close she would easily be sealed, Amaterasu'd or genjutsu'd.



She'd never go against the mirror, more like the backside.  And Itachi would have to turn off Susanoo in order to cast Amaterasu.



Immortal said:


> A won't be in constant motion as shown in the Madara fight. If Madara can catch Raikage in genjutsu, Itachi def can. The bigger issue with Raikage is that he can't do shit to Itachi. His strongest attack only cracked Sasuke's basic ribcage Susano'o. Itachi's is far superior, especially with Yata.



Lightened Raikage busted Madara's Susanoo.



Immortal said:


> Its funny because you're underestimating the kage that are most difficult for Itachi to take down - Gaara and Onoki. Gaara can defend from Amaterasu which is huge. That said, he's going to need to use his eyes or his third eye to properly defend from Amaterasu and if he does that, he'll be trapped in genjutsu.



Third eye would protect him against genjutsu.  Lest the regular genjutsu would've worked on Nagato through Animal path if chakra transmission also sent genjutsu through.



Immortal said:


> I dunno, since its Edo Itachi who is bloodlusted I disagree. I see no reason why Itachi wouldn't immediately wipe out two kage with Tskoyomi to one and Amaterasu to another. I see Onoki and Mei being the first targets and Itachi would have to grind the other three down a bit before pulling out the win, but since stamina isn't an issue for Edo Itachi I think he wins it.



He'd also leave himself open for a counter.


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## Laix (Jun 19, 2013)

oops, I forgot about the Yata mirror 

Tsunade can heal the effects of Tsukuyomi as she did with Kakashi so it's not a problem.

Mei can use her acid mist against Itachi if the kages distance themselves away.

With the yata mirror, let's say Itachi goes full susanoo. The Five Kage would probably attempt a technique, see it fail and then go on the super defensive. Who would outlast the other? Five Kage, one who is the greatest healer in the world and two who can use earth/sand defenses or Itachi? Itachi would last even less if he's in the condition he was in the manga but I'm going to assume he isn't ill.

Plus if the Kage were to go defensive and play long distance, Mei can use this distance to keep an active acidic mist around his susanoo.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 19, 2013)

Onoki or Gaara solo. 

Ei _might _win with high difficulty. 

Tsunade and Mei are the most likely to be defeated, but they can put up a good fight individually. 

All five rapestomp.



Final Jutsu said:


> Dust release will be countered by Yata's mirror.  Itachi has unlimited chakra, so he can keep Susanoo up.   Itachi will pressure Oonoki with Katons, and Yasaka Magatama from range.  Not to mention sniping him with his top tier Shuriken skills.  Which worked for Sasuke in shooting down Deidara.  If Oonoki is a dumb ass and gets close.. He gets stabbed with Totsuka, incinerated with Amaterasu, or bent over with Genjutsu.  Oonoki has no chance to beat Edo Itachi alone.



Onoki can make Rock Clones. Three Jintons, one Yata... Even IF Itachi can stop two of them, he can't stop all three. 

Onoki should be experienced fighting Sharingan/genjutsu users, he avoided being caught by Madara too. 

Onoki can dodge Totsuka. 

All ninjas can hit bullseyes with shurikens.


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## Rain (Jun 19, 2013)

Itachi immediately creates a ring of Amaterasu around him, effectively limiting the Gokage's movements, and then proceeds to bitchslap the fuck out of them with a combination of Bunshin, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susano'o.


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## UltimateDeadpool (Jun 19, 2013)

Rain said:


> Itachi immediately creates a ring of Amaterasu around him, effectively limiting the Gokage's movements, and then proceeds to bitchslap the fuck out of them with a combination of Bunshin, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susano'o.



Gaara wraps Itachi in sand anyway and Onoki nukes him from above. 

Or Tsunade grabs a boulder and throws it above Itachi, he'll have to abandon his circle only to be gangbanged by all five Kages waiting for him.

There are about a few dozen other scenarios where Itachi remains in a hopeless situation.


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## DemonicAvenger (Jun 19, 2013)

Kages stomp


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## Baroxio (Jun 19, 2013)

Itachi has full knowledge and the opposing team has no knowledge.

Only one member on the Kage's side carries the necessary sealing tags to end him, and Itachi *knows *this.

All Itachi has to do is kill Gaara (easy due to no knowledge on Tsukyomi/Amaterasu), and he eventually wins the match.

The Kages have no knowledge, and thus don't even know that he is an Edo so they won't even be protecting Gaara.

The win isn't going to be easy, but with infinite chakra and only one necessary target with absurdly powerful OHKOs the opponents know jack shit about, Itachi can  definitely win this more times than not.


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## Rocky (Jun 19, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Itachi has full knowledge and the opposing team has no knowledge.
> 
> Only one member on the Kage's side carries the necessary sealing tags to end him, and Itachi *knows *this.
> 
> ...




It would take seconds to deduce Itachi is an Edo Tensei. The Kage have previous experience dealing with the zombies. From there, they protect Gaara and Itachi's chances of victory become nothing. It's 5 on 1, and the Sharingan isn't as effective against numbers. 

Once Itachi pulls out Susano'o, which is effectively right away, The Kage would then realize he is an Uchiha and adjust their combat style.


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## Laix (Jun 19, 2013)

> mfw reading this thread


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## Baroxio (Jun 19, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It would take seconds to deduce Itachi is an Edo Tensei. The Kage have previous experience dealing with the zombies. From there, they protect Gaara and Itachi's chances of victory become nothing. It's 5 on 1, and the Sharingan isn't as effective against numbers.
> 
> Once Itachi pulls out Susano'o, which is effectively right away, The Kage would then realize he is an Uchiha and adjust their combat style.


How will they determine he's an Edo "in seconds" before he Amaterasu's Gaara's face off?

The only sure fire way to separate an Edo from a person with really bad skin is is to damage him and watch him regenerate, but by the time they do that, Gaara is dead.

Things are worse if Itachi uses a clone and replaces himself with it before any damage is taken, allowing him a free shot on Gaara while the Kage are distracted. 

The fact that none of the Kage are sensors and the fact that Itachi can do this before Perfect Sage Kabuto and fully matured EMS Sasuke could notice assures that such a tactic will be successful.

*EDIT*: Heck, it already *was *successful with Madara and his Wood Clone when he targeted Tsunade.


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## LostSelf (Jun 19, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Unfortunately it's like the only thing we have to go by. We have no examples of instant Tsukuyomi and I don't see why Itachi, intent on knocking Kakashi out, would slow down while doing so.


I didn't say it would allow him to slow down. Anyway the tactics he would do to get one kage by surprise having knowledge won't be the same as here.



> The other Kage are likely to remain at a distance and out of close direct eye contact anyway.



After they find out he has a potent genjutsu. The Kages were not keeping their distance against Madara. Nor Onoki, Tsunade, or Ei. And they all knew Madara could use genjutsu. I don't think they will keep their distance here with no knowledge.



> And Ay _was_ wary of the Sharingan's techniques against Sasuke, and C even states that was _why_ he was keeping his chakras pumped up to V2. So I see him to do the same here. And Ay can notice their eyes meet and glance away quicker than any genjutsu's activation, as his reflexes are superior and he has no more actions to take to avoid it than Itachi to cast it.



True. Ei. (I think i will have to make clear that i believe Itachi wins because of the no knowledge factor and because he can take out Gaara by surprise. All the thing we're debating here are assuming that they already found out that Itachi has MS. My main argument is diferent.) would be safe, but not the others. He cannot save the five of them from two big amaterasu flames.



> That's because Itachi can turn his head before the flames themselves are shot if someone dodges, like he did with Sasuke.



V1 would be still enough to dodge if that were the case. Another thing is that i don't believe Itachi will just activate MS lSasuke style having full knowledge. He can activate Amaterasu by clone feint, Kage bunshins to fool the kages and get into a favorable position while they are busy killing the fake Itachi. 



> But in this case Gaara's sand is just going to be up in front of him once blood goes down Itachi's cheek, and then Ammy manifests, but there's stuff in the way, so Gaara is okay.



If he uses it in front of them, it's very possible. Though Gaara will need to look at his eyes and he himself risks of being put in genjutsu. Anyway, Itachi would never use Amaterasu that way against five Kages. And he's more than capable of feinting them and taking them by surprise before he even has to show MS.

Not to mention that if he uses it like Sasuke (Not caring about anything or if someone can attack him from behind. Oonoki, Mei and Tsunade won't be able to save themselves from Amaterasu. And they can be taken out by surprise if we assume that they should be looking directly at Itachi's eyes having no knowledge (That is not much of a given), realizing that he has MS (even though this takes less than a second) and then beggining to move.



> Idk. I was really only trying to get across they would take the MS seriously as soon as it comes out.



I already explained this above. Itachi would not be that fool as to use it like that if he's overpowered and if he fully knows their abilities. But he's more than capable of tricking them with a clone. Of course, having basic knowledge in favor of the kages would be enough to rapestomp him. But if two of them are taken by surprise before Itachi even shows MS, he can win this. Specially if he takes down Gaara, Tsunade or Oonoki. Two of those three.

And Tsunade and Onoki are quite vulnerable to a bunshin feint and Amaterasu.



> Itachi being smart does not make the Kage stupid in return. They'll do it because it's the logical thing to do once they see the Sharingan whether they have knowledge on Itachi's specifics or not, and whether they work as a team or not those would be the actions they most likely take.



Again, this is having knowledge, even the basic one. My argument is another. But this was explained above.



> Teaming up just from seeing the Sharingan is common practice according to Chiyo, though. And the Mangekyo in particular is a threat even for Kage levels. Why would they not take the quickest and easiest route?
> 
> And especially when the mist can just block his sight anyway? It isn't even one of her stronger techniques, nor is it costly (should be _less_ costly than her other jutsu), but it is effective against someone reliant upon their eyes for their jutsu, so it's logically going to be the first to come out even if Mei isn't working with the others right away (which she may very well be).
> 
> They would do that because that is what seeing the Mangekyo caused them to do in canon already during the Kage Summit.



True. But that is after they see the Mangekyo. My point is Itachi taking one or two of them before they find out that he has it. Him being smart doesn't make the kages stupid, but it helps him to trick them with bunshin and activate MS without them finding out in time.




> No it's exactly the same.
> 
> Sozo Saisei's hype came from a character in the manga before it was ever released in the databook. . .the databook says the _same thing_ a character in the manga said, just as it does with Yata.



Soso Saisei's hype is Tsunade not being able to die in combat? Because if Tsunade is killed before she activates the seal she's pretty much fucked. hen was SS hyped as that (I don't recall).



> Against most attacks I'm sure it can change its properties and defend. Jinton isn't a conventional opposition though, and I don't see why Yata would be able to merge 3 different natures.



Yata could change it's nature to effectively block Jinton. If Jinton can be three elements together, Yata should (notice the should, i'm not affirming anything) be able to do it.



> Just having three natures you can switch between doesn't automatically grant you the ability to merge them together at once. That's why we don't see Kakuzu using Jinton or anyone else's Kekkei Genkai.



I'm not saying Yata can switch to one element individually.



> He could have been. Five separate enemies who we see weren't all to one side of Ay (meaning not all were in his field of vision), one could wait while Ay dodges another and doesn't know the next one is behind him until its already swinging, and he was in V1 at least when we saw him.



That is true.



> They don't need to figure out Itachi has all of Sasuke's jutsu  to think putting up a defense against an MS user such as Kirigakure or sand shields is a good idea. Recognizing the Sharingan and especially the Mangekyo will make them do that. They do not need someone to get lit on fire first.



Above.



> Naruto was looking at a crow when Itachi used it and only looked back at Itachi after it had already been activated. So of course he only reacted after the jutsu was used. Bee wasn't even in Itachi's line of sight, why would he do anything? And we don't know if he prepared any defense for himself or not regardless because he wasn't on panel. Nagato _did_ have time before the flames appeared and spent it telling Itachi he figured out what he was doing.



That's not an excuse for Naruto. Nagato warned him with plenty of time to put a defense. We don't know if Bee was putting a defense, but Itachi could move his head and kill him as well.

Nagato did know because he's an skilled sensor with better feat than Mu. None of the kages are.



> Koto took no longer than Ammy, if anything it took effect faster unless you're counting the crow's emergence as part of Koto's activation.



It took longer than Amy since Itachi had his eye closed for quite a time and his eye didn't even bleed again when he used Amaterasu and was used instantly.



> Which he can do to a regenerating Itachi. It'd be easy to put sealing tags on the rock.



I still don't recall Onoki sealing a Zetsu. He petrified it to be free, but nothing more.


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## tanman (Jun 19, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> They may not have knowledg on Itachi
> 
> But they still do know of Amaterasu, MS genjutsu, and Susanoo thanks to there encounters with Sasuke. You can't take away their manga knowledge of other characters tha use identical techs.



Isn't that the point of "no knowledge." If you put Tsunade in a fight against Pain and gave her no knowledge, you're actively reducing her knowledge of his abilities since she has manga knowledge. Why is it any different since "no knowledge" is obviously pointed at the fighters abilities, not the fighters dental record?


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## joshhookway (Jun 20, 2013)

No knowledge for Gokage in this battle means that they don't know who Itachi is, including anything that gives clues to his background, and they don't know any of Itachi's jutus.

Hope that clears things up.


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## IchLiebe (Jun 20, 2013)

tanman said:


> Isn't that the point of "no knowledge." If you put Tsunade in a fight against Pain and gave her no knowledge, you're actively reducing her knowledge of his abilities since she has manga knowledge. Why is it any different since "no knowledge" is obviously pointed at the fighters abilities, not the fighters dental record?



But if she would've fought another rinnegan user than she would know the capabilities that the rinnegan grants and its techniques like preta, and BT. The kages easily fought against 25 Susanoos and they know of Amaterasu thanks to Sasuke. 

And that still only takes out 1 opponent while the others attack.



Thats like saying the US doesn't know what China secrets are but we know what jets, bombs, and guns are.


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## Stermor (Jun 20, 2013)

no knowlegde is only going to get itachi so far... anyway amaterasu is blocked by gaara.. lol at tsukiyomi beeing a true factor.. remember against sasuke zetsu was stating shit about tsukiyomi.. if he wanted itachi would have been dead right then and there.. this is the same deal.. 

susanoo might be nasty.. but they are going to see his sword right away.. orochimaru knew about it.. chances are one of the kages knows about it aswell.. 

and really itachi dies the moment onoki and tsunade get together.. and just jinton his ass down.. regardless of what itachi can do..


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## Jak N Blak (Jun 20, 2013)

As if fucking Onoki can't handle him alone.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 20, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> As if fucking *Onoki can't handle him alone*.



Bold part of that statement is true.


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## Trojan (Jun 20, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> As if fucking Onoki can't handle him alone.



almost every one of the Gokage can handle him alone.


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## Rain (Jun 21, 2013)

TorJaN said:


> almost every one of the Gokage can handle him alone.



Please start following the advice in your sig.


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## KeyofMiracles (Jun 21, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> As if fucking Onoki can't handle him alone.



Haha, hell no. Onoki gets shitted on.



TorJaN said:


> almost every one of the Gokage can handle him alone.



Slap yourself.


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## Roman (Jun 21, 2013)

With no knowledge, not one of the Gokage would be able to take Itachi alone. Even the best of them would have some trouble even if they had knowledge. With no knowledge, each of the Gokage individually would get stomped within seconds. The story would be pretty different with all five of them together. For Itachi, the key would be to take out Oonoki first and fast because if he and Raikage team up, Itachi wouldn't be able to keep up very easily. The reason for that is because the only one faster than Raikage is Minato, and A's even faster with Oonoki on his back. Itachi wouldn't be able to keep up so easily.

Gaara is the other problem in the equation, but he wouldn't be as difficult to deal with than Oonoki so in Itachi's place, I'd prioritize on Oonoki because I wouldn't want to deal with Raikage+Oonoki combo, but it's very unlikely Itachi would be able to take out either one of them simultaneously. 

I don't imagine Oonoki climbing Raikage's back from the start without knowledge of Itachi's abilities, so Itachi would know to get rid of Oonoki before the two can fight as one. If we assume Oonoki is out of the way first, Itachi would still have to deal with Gaara and Raikage. Gaara is perfect for attacking from a longer range, not to mention his sand can protect him from Suusano.

The only way Itachi would have a chance is with Tsukuyomi but I don't remember Itachi ever doing it on more than one person at a time so I'm not sure he'd be able to take all five of them with Tsukuyomi at once. One thing I want to be clear on is exactly what "no knowledge" entails. If they don't know about the nature of Itachi's Tsukuyomi as opposed to having no knowledge of the MS to begin with, then I doubt the Kage wouldn't be cautious about dealing with the MS. If it is no knowledge of the MS, Itachi would prolly use that against Oonoki first, at which point the other Kage would realize what's happening.

Mei and Tsunade aren't great threats so I don't see Itachi paying too much attention to them at first, tho with Mei's versatility with nature transformations, he'd likely use the Yata Mirror primarily to defend against her. Tsunade's punches are also stronger than A's without Oonoki's assistance, but she doesn't have the speed to go with it, but her kuchiyise is what Itachi ought to be concerned with the most, but I can't see Itachi managing to defend himself against them all at once, particularly when one of them can defend against Suusano.


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