# Strongest character Ino can defeat?



## Lace (Oct 24, 2013)

Someone needs to put a quota on my Ino threads.

Who do you think she can defeat?


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## wooly Eullerex (Oct 24, 2013)

*takes a deep breath*

I dont see Ino defeating any established character.

But her character, like most, wasn't created to win conditional matchups. And none of the characters were created for a ''battledome'' purpose at all, but only to be part of a storytelling


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## Lace (Oct 24, 2013)

diadora Lotto said:


> *takes a deep breath*
> 
> I dont see Ino defeating any established character.
> 
> And her character, like most, weren't created to win conditional matchups. And none of the characters were created for a ''battledome'' purpose at all, but only to be part of a storytelling



Harsh.


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## ueharakk (Oct 24, 2013)

what do you mean by defeat?  If she catches someone with shintenshin, the best she can do is commit suicide, thus killing them both, but that's not a defeat that's like shiki fuujin: a draw.


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## Psp123789 (Oct 24, 2013)

Ino is very weak. Like a mid chunnin at best. The strongest person she can beat is probably konohamuru or tenten.


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## wooly Eullerex (Oct 24, 2013)

Ino is not ''weak'' at all. Her level of ninjutsu is actually quite stromg & her will is even stronger


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## Lace (Oct 24, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> what do you mean by defeat?  If she catches someone with shintenshin, the best she can do is commit suicide, thus killing them both, but that's not a defeat that's like shiki fuujin: a draw.



How about covering the opponent in explosive tags and leaving the body right before they go off? Or jumping off a clip and releasing her jutsu right before her opponents body hits the ground? There are ways around this.

But since I doubt you'll agree with that let's say for the sake of the argument that suicide = defeat.


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## Shizune (Oct 25, 2013)

Sakura                                   .


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## Brooks (Oct 25, 2013)

Konohamaru or Tenten


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## -JT- (Oct 25, 2013)

The problem with Ino is that her signature jutsu, the Shintenshin, is now so overpowered that she can actually ensnare many a high tier with it, and commit a pseudo-suicide (a la Fu, slapping an explosive tag on the face, or something similar).

But if her high tier opponent has knowledge on her, then they can react accordingly and demolish her. So she's actually like Hidan in many respects. 

So she definitely has the potential to defeat high level, stationary fighters like Gaara (possibly even higher level than him) but I know a lot of people here would be keen to dimiss this and accuse me of fanboyism.


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## Ghost (Oct 25, 2013)

^ lel **


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## -JT- (Oct 25, 2013)

saikyou said:


> ^ lel **



And thus, my final comment is epitomised by this post.

Shintenshin isn't the garbage it was in Part 1 any more. It held down a Pseudo Six Tails and ensnared Obito twice. Yes, the first time it was broken in two seconds, but Obito had the Sharingan, the Rinnegan, and was connected to the Juubi, the most powerful thing in existence.
It's also faster than KCM Naruto.


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2013)

-JT- said:


> So she definitely has the potential to defeat high level, stationary fighters like Gaara (possibly even higher level than him) but I know a lot of people here would be keen to dimiss this and accuse me of fanboyism.




Yes we will dismiss this as fanboyism, because the notion that Ino is defeating the Kazekage or anyone important by herself is ridiculous. She can take some of the the other rookies, and possibly some Jounin like Asuma or Kurenai (wouldn't count on it). 

Gaara Sand Coffin GG's within seconds.


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## ueharakk (Oct 25, 2013)

well, she can beat almost anyone below the toptiers (since obito broke her jutsu in 2 seconds) if they have zero knowledge on her abilities and have a cocky mindset.

If they have general knowledge on her or just approach the battle with caution, I don't think she beats anyone who is a kage, even elite jounins unless the opponent is slower than average speed or has an attack that requires them to significantly lose mobility.  And saying her limit is below elite jounins is still throwing ino a big break because really, she shouldn't be able to defeat any of the k11 more than not in direct combat since she's a one-trick pony in 1 vs 1 fights and that one trick has never been pulled off against anyone without some massive help and stipulations that would never be present in a 1 vs 1 fight.

I think *this page* sums up my thoughts about ino's ability in a straight up 1 vs 1 fight.


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## Bonly (Oct 25, 2013)

Ten-ten or some other named fodder level ninja.


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2013)

-JT- said:


> It held down a Pseudo Six Tails and ensnared Obito twice.



It barley held Kinkaku, and Obito broke it right away as you said. 




> It's also faster than KCM Naruto.




You mean when Ino is all juiced upon Naruto's Chakra.


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## Naiad (Oct 25, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It barley held Kinkaku



omg what a nonsense 

@ topic; 

she really needs an offensive jutsu! shintenshin is a great support jutsu! she can pretty much shintenshin anyone now! but its better for giving other teammates an opening than for her doing a suicide attack. In case of Obito,she wouldnt have been able to do one! but 2 seconds, although dependend on her opponent,are enough for someone other to land a critical attack/strike!
theoretically she could do the same with using shintenbunshin,but its kinda unknown how fast shintenbunshin is,and it was only used at closerange,so not sure.

i dont really have an idea who the strongest could be.


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## DCI Kurusu (Oct 25, 2013)

Maybe a severely weakened Zetsu clone (without arms or legs)? Actually, nah.. there's no way she could defeat someone that strong.


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## Rob (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry  

But what a good counters for her Shintenshin Jutsu?


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## Kazekage94 (Oct 25, 2013)

-JT- said:


> The problem with Ino is that her signature jutsu, the Shintenshin, is now so overpowered that she can actually ensnare many a high tier with it, and commit a pseudo-suicide (a la Fu, slapping an explosive tag on the face, or something similar).
> 
> But if her high tier opponent has knowledge on her, then they can react accordingly and demolish her. So she's actually like Hidan in many respects.
> 
> So she definitely has the potential to defeat high level, stationary fighters like Gaara (possibly even higher level than him) but I know a lot of people here would be keen to dimiss this and accuse me of fanboyism.



Gaara can force her out with no struggle. Plus his sand automatically protects him from anything she has. He can't even stab himself without the sand covering him so she can not defeat him whatsoever


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## Kazekage94 (Oct 25, 2013)

I don't even believe she can beat TenTen with her weapons let alone Banana Tenten.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

I've thought about this.

She can kill Mei at long distance, particularly if Mei has no knowledge.

Mei sets up her hidden mist/acid mist combo, and Ino snipes her with a super fast shintenshin combined with her sensing that lets her see through the mist.

Mei has no real durability beyond someone like Kakashi, so Ino can just make her eat some exploding tags, or put them on her face like someone mentioned.  She can also non-instantly fatal wounds on her, and then heal her own body after the release with shosen.  If she still has those poison flowers on her, she could make them swallow poison, but I don't grant her those in the BD.

Anyone claiming that Yamakas have to suicide obviously never read the Fu vs Ao fight, and might be suffering a critical lack of imagination.  You'd make poor Yamaka's.


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I've thought about this.
> 
> She can kill Mei at long distance, particularly if Mei has no knowledge.
> 
> Mei sets up her hidden mist/acid mist combo, and Ino snipes her with a super fast shintenshin combined with her sensing that lets her see through the mist.




Or, say, Mei ruins her day with a naturally very very big Water Dragon instead of setting up the Acidic Mist on a random opponent. Sure, the Suiton won't kill her, but she'll get up from the ground and oh look, there's a giant glob lava in her face. 

Mei stomps Ino with negative difficulty. Don't play games.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Yes we will dismiss this as fanboyism, because the notion that Ino is defeating the Kazekage or anyone important by herself is ridiculous. She can take some of the the other rookies, and possibly some Jounin like Asuma or Kurenai (wouldn't count on it).
> 
> Gaara Sand Coffin GG's within seconds.



The reason she can't kill Gaara is because the autosand will protect him, not for the, "I can't accept that plot important can be killed by haxx jutsu in the hands of non-kage," reasons.  He basically stands still and lets people throw stuff at him, because his sand will block it.  Shintenshin is non-physical though, so it won't work, and he could get caught.  Distance is also important.  You kind of have to play with match specifics for characters like Ino to answer questions like, "Who's the strongest she can beat?"  Go look at the Ino and Hidan vs Raikagenaught for a PDQ perfect example.

She can't kill raikage because even if she lands, she can't hurt him.  Same with Tsunade, and Onoki probably erases her at match start, though it's conceivable she could snag him if he strolls up to her like he did to Taka to use the little cube because he's Onoki and can do that apparently.  She also can't beat Mei up close, because Mei will just blast her with lava, and she can't handle that.

Remember what Obito said.  Danzo did well in taking a Yamanaka and an Aburame with him as guards, because those two clans have dangerous non-traditional techniques that bypass standard defences.  Back then, even he was very careful not to get caught in their techniques.  (If you were there, I listed Tsunade as the strongest person Torune could defeat in a thread, for just such a reason.)



> It barley held Kinkaku, and Obito broke it right away as you said.



Yeah, it had no trouble holding Kinkaku.  You might be thinking of the statement Kinkaku made about how he'd, "Break this in half a second!"  But he was referring to Shikamaru's shadow possession, which only needed to keep him still for half a second so Ino could land her jutsu and seal him into the jar.  No where was it implied she struggled to hold him, and Inoichi even complimented Ino on her incredible speed and improvement in shintenshin.

Obito is a special case, and deserves to be treated as such.  He is the final villain who had EMS and Rinnegan, and is half Hashirama, on top of being direct linked to all the power of the juubi, who he was mind controlling.  If anyone in the manga has a right to total immunity from a potentially game ending jutsu, then it would be him.  (For the same reason Death and other oneshot moves never work on any boss) But he still wasn't immune, and when Ino got more power, she was able to just hold him and control the juubi through him until Shikamaru told her to stop.  Which if anything only proves that the jutsu can work on anything and anyone.

On the other hand, we can use your interpretation, where everyone with a little bit of relevance can instantly break shintenshin, because they're all equal to final boss all plot upgrades Obito.  



ueharakk said:


> well, she can beat almost anyone below the toptiers (since obito broke her jutsu in 2 seconds) if they have zero knowledge on her abilities and have a cocky mindset.
> 
> If they have general knowledge on her or just approach the battle with caution, I don't think she beats anyone who is a kage, even elite jounins unless the opponent is slower than average speed or has an attack that requires them to significantly lose mobility.  And saying her limit is below elite jounins is still throwing ino a big break because really, she shouldn't be able to defeat any of the k11 more than not in direct combat since she's a one-trick pony in 1 vs 1 fights and that one trick has never been pulled off against anyone without some massive help and stipulations that would never be present in a 1 vs 1 fight.
> 
> I think *this page* sums up my thoughts about ino's ability in a straight up 1 vs 1 fight.



That Asuma.  With his average speed and weak lagging taijutsu.  

But seriously, that panel is clearly out dated.  If we based all of our opinions on out-dated statements, I would be saying Naruto sucks at bunshin, Sakura is equal with Sasuke and Naruto, Tsunade has a fear of blood, Kakashi can't use kamui in succession and it takes a long time, and Sasuke can only use two chidori's a day without tapping into his cursed seal.  Also the kyuubi is evil and will kill Naruto if he uses kagebunshin.


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## ueharakk (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That Asuma.  With his average speed and weak lagging taijutsu.


Ino fought asuma using her own body?  



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> But seriously, that panel is clearly out dated.  If we based all of our opinions on out-dated statements, I would be saying Naruto sucks at bunshin, Sakura is equal with Sasuke and Naruto, Tsunade has a fear of blood, Kakashi can't use kamui in succession and it takes a long time, and Sasuke can only use two chidori's a day without tapping into his cursed seal.  Also the kyuubi is evil and will kill Naruto if he uses kagebunshin.


The panel describes Ino's general abilities in battles: they are support.  It is perfectly in line with everything she's done in the war: support.  

I don't see how any of ino's new feats or abilities contradict that statement: that she's not skilled as straight fighting and that she needs help or stipulations to be in her favor in order to get her opponent with her shintenshin.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Or, say, Mei ruins her day with a naturally very very big Water Dragon instead of setting up the Acidic Mist on a random opponent. Sure, the Suiton won't kill her, but she'll get up from the ground and oh look, there's a giant glob lava in her face.
> 
> Mei stomps Ino with negative difficulty. Don't play games.



I'm not playing games with anyone.  It's to Mei's benefit to set up herself up when she has time and distance.  That's what most people grant her in every  match, and why they think she beats the Raikage at longer distances.  It isn't because she opens by slamming him with water and then shunshinning across the field to cover him in lava.  That's how she dies, coincidentally.  It's because she goes invisible to him, and sets up an acid he can't tank for very long to run through, and then assaults him with impunity using long ranged suitons.  Unless consensus has changed, that was the standard no knowledge set up for her at long range.

To add to that, if the opponent attacks her with a ranged jutsu while she's setting up, she just segues into a water spout to block basically anything that can reach her.  If I granted her opening all long range no knowledge fights with dragons, then I'd have to say that she loses to the Raikage and Tsunade and other people she should beat at her perfect distancing, and then I'd really be playing games and be angering people.  Whoever likes Mei kind of people.  I don't know who they are, actually.


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> I'm not playing games with anyone.  It's to Mei's benefit to set up herself up when she has time and distance.  That's what most people grant her in every  match, and why they think she beats the Raikage at longer distances.  It isn't because she opens by slamming him with water and then shunshinning across the field to cover him in lava.  That's how she dies, coincidentally.  It's because she goes invisible to him, and sets up an acid he can't tank for very long to run through, and then assaults him with impunity using long ranged suitons.  Unless consensus has changed, that was the standard no knowledge set up for her at long range.




She takes these actions because of her knowledge on the Raikage, not because she feels activating mist techniques is a _must_ against all opponents.



> To add to that, if the opponent attacks her with a ranged jutsu while she's setting up, she just segues into a water spout to block basically anything that can reach her.  If I granted her opening all long range no knowledge fights with dragons, then I'd have to say that she loses to the Raikage and Tsunade and other people she should beat at her perfect distancing, and then I'd really be playing games and be angering people.  Whoever likes Mei kind of people.  I don't know who they are, actually.




She does lose to the Raikage & Tsunade, regardless of distance. No knowledge makes it 10x worse for her. However, Ino isn't Ei or Tsunade.


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## Trojan (Oct 25, 2013)

Ino is great for support, not for fighting by herself.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> Ino fought asuma using her own body?



Choji's fast now?  

Look, when you change bodies, the only thing that you get to keep is your skill in taijutsu.  You're limited to the strength and speed of the body you're in.  Choji has strength, but he isn't fast, and his style is built on sumo wrestling and king hits.  The spikes are set up by Ino and Shikamaru, because he's too slow to land without a set up.  Zetsu's aren't very nimble or agile or skilled.  They also haven't been shown to be very strong, either.  So she has to be fighting with her own taijutsu, and her own taijutsu was matching or pressuring Asuma every time.

That kind of dismissal only holds if you disregard taijutsu as nothing more than a combination of speed and power, and not as it's own actual skill and factor that the databook and canon says it is.  I don't think that's right, and neither do most people, because everyone still seems to thinkTsunade is better than Sakura even if Sakura has more power in her hits and better speed now.  



> The panel describes Ino's general abilities in battles: they are support.  It is perfectly in line with everything she's done in the war: support.
> 
> I don't see how any of ino's new feats or abilities contradict that statement: that she's not skilled as straight fighting and that she needs help or stipulations to be in her favor in order to get her opponent with her shintenshin.



Her new feats show that she isn't unskilled at fighting.  It isn't her strength, because support is still her strength.  But since her support skills have gone off the charts, her normal skills can increase rather dramatically while still remaining her weakest area.  She still lacks a finishing blow, like super strength, or raikiri, or hien blades and the like to kill anyone who can't die by kunai or normal punches, so she's not going to be killing anyone that way.  
most CQC specialists have those and some special kind of durability, so they're still clearly going to beat her.  Similar to how Itachi can basically fight anyone in straight taijutsu, but won't be finishing off Killer Bee with shuriken and straight taijutsu regardless of how well he can hang.  

I don't think I've been careless when stating the stipulations she needs to defeat really strong opponents 1v1, either.  That's kind of the point of seeing who characters can beat and how.  At certain distances with certain knowledge sets she has a reasonable chance to beat some really strong people, but if you mess with those conditions, she will lose.  Then there are others she can't beat even under the most favorable circumstances.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

Rocky said:


> She takes these actions because of her knowledge on the Raikage, not because she feels activating mist techniques is a _must_ against all opponents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait, Ei can sip acid tea in acid and be okay?


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## Jagger (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Wait, Ei can sip acid tea in acid and be okay?


If you are reffering to the hypothetical fight between the Mizukage and A. He wins. Not only he can outlast her, but blitz her and stay away from the range of her jutsu. Once he gets into his V2 state, he starts dominating her. Sure, Mei can put up the acid mist, but A is not a mentally challenged person to keep fighting in circustamces disfavouring him.


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## Saru (Oct 25, 2013)

A fellow Konoha 12 nin (excluding Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, Choji, or Shikamaru). I don't think she's really put herself above them.


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## ueharakk (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Choji's fast now?
> 
> Look, when you change bodies, the only thing that you get to keep is your skill in taijutsu.  You're limited to the strength and speed of the body you're in.  Choji has strength, but he isn't fast, and his style is built on sumo wrestling and king hits.  The spikes are set up by Ino and Shikamaru, because he's too slow to land without a set up.  Zetsu's aren't very nimble or agile or skilled.  They also haven't been shown to be very strong, either.  So she has to be fighting with her own taijutsu, and her own taijutsu was matching or pressuring Asuma every time.


sure it shows that given those bodies, she has both skill and mental reaction to fight off asuma in taijutsu.   But here she doesn't have the body to do so so your original comment which was "asuma with average speed and weak lagging taijutsu" is disingenuous in regards to ino's own.  



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That kind of dismissal only holds if you disregard taijutsu as nothing more than a combination of speed and power, and not as it's own actual skill and factor that the databook and canon says it is.  I don't think that's right, and neither do most people, because everyone still seems to thinkTsunade is better than Sakura even if Sakura has more power in her hits and better speed now.


taijutsu "skill" is different from taijutsu, taijutsu includes speed, power, mental reactions, and skill.  The databook might regard taijutsu as "taijutsu skill" but actually fighting another person in taijutsu is not a reflection of your respective pure taijutsu skill, thus your statement which compares ino to asuma's taijutsu wouldn't mean anything in regards to ino's overall effectiveness in taijutsu, only her skill.




The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Her new feats show that she isn't unskilled at fighting.  It isn't her strength, because support is still her strength.  But since her support skills have gone off the charts, her normal skills can increase rather dramatically while still remaining her weakest area.  She still lacks a finishing blow, like super strength, or raikiri, or hien blades and the like to kill anyone who can't die by kunai or normal punches, so she's not going to be killing anyone that way.
> most CQC specialists have those and some special kind of durability, so they're still clearly going to beat her.  Similar to how Itachi can basically fight anyone in straight taijutsu, but won't be finishing off Killer Bee with shuriken and straight taijutsu regardless of how well he can hang.
> 
> I don't think I've been careless when stating the stipulations she needs to defeat really strong opponents 1v1, either.  That's kind of the point of seeing who characters can beat and how.  At certain distances with certain knowledge sets she has a reasonable chance to beat some really strong people, but if you mess with those conditions, she will lose.  Then there are others she can't beat even under the most favorable circumstances.


The first paragraph I can agree with except for the conclusion that her skills in a 1 vs 1 match dramatically increase if her support skills dramatically increase.  Power progressions between different dimensions of a fight down increase linearly, thus you'd have to show an actual argument for how her increased support abilities would factor into her actual 1 vs 1 abilities.

For the second paragraph, I'm not talking about general stipulations such as mindset, distance, location, knowledge, I'm takling about more specific stipulations that occurred in the manga that allowed her to actually land her one and only trick: shintenshin.


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## jacobsmith (Oct 25, 2013)

What is the name of that nerd on Konohamaru's team?

Maybe that kid.
That is about it.


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Wait, Ei can sip acid tea in acid and be okay?




If the distance is short, he speed blitzes. If it's a bit longer, she may have time to set up the acid...but he'll run through it and pound her head backwards. Ei was able to fight through Amaterasu, so he'll be fine in the acidic mist as long as the exposure is brief. Fortunately for him, Sharingan-breaking flickers can make fights quite short. If she sets up the Hidden Mist to cloud vision, he'll have to wait her out, which is easily accomplished with Bijuu-level Chakra, speed to avoid any of her attacks, and insane durability.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 25, 2013)

Ino should be able to defeat some of her peers, but she doesn't have enough power/versatility to fight against Jounin (experienced) or Kage. 

Working in conjuction with a powerful ally tends to make her ability exceptional, however...


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 25, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> sure it shows that given those bodies, she has both skill and mental reaction to fight off asuma in taijutsu.   But here she doesn't have the body to do so so your original comment which was "asuma with average speed and weak lagging taijutsu" is disingenuous in regards to ino's own.
> 
> 
> taijutsu "skill" is different from taijutsu, taijutsu includes speed, power, mental reactions, and skill.  The databook might regard taijutsu as "taijutsu skill" but actually fighting another person in taijutsu is not a reflection of your respective pure taijutsu skill, thus your statement which compares ino to asuma's taijutsu wouldn't mean anything in regards to ino's overall effectiveness in taijutsu, only her skill.
> ...



You're telling me Ino's body is too weak and slow and her reactions too sluggish use her own taijutsu.

That sounds like something that would have been taken into account before she developed her style.  As in the very first step.

It's common sense that the body you would perform best in is the one you spend all your time living and training and developing.  The reactions argument also seems stupid.  She can track and time and land her jutsu on Kinkaku with one moment of opening, but she has slow reactions.  She saved Choji by noticing he was freezing, cast her jutsu, landed it, took control, and intercepted Asuma's attack, and did the same across a battlefield to possess Obito a second time, but that doesn't show good reactions?  Both times she was acting after the attack.  

If you're super fast with your jutsu, and can use them in reaction to other fast attacks, you have good reactions, or else you'll wind up with arguments like Minato can't react to attacks without hirishin, because he's only been shown to be super fast with hirashin.  So it's impossible for him to normal dodge and block or shunshin, and he just has to stand there and get punched until he showed the feats.  You can argue it, but it's really stupid.


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## Xeros (Oct 25, 2013)

Any fodder ninja, possibly. I think the strongest named person Ino can beat is Sakura.


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## Cord (Oct 25, 2013)

_Shintenshin no jutsu_ is no more broken than _Juken_ is, against a stationary opponent and when delivered under the best circumstances, combined with necessary support. Ino, compared to her part one incarnate has immensely improved during the time skip. However, that doesn't necessarily grant her any chance of beating _kage level_ opponents head to head- especially those who stood up against Madara.

Don't get me wrong, _Shintenshin_ is an awesome jutsu but you'd need to give it some massive power-scaling to suggest that Ino *on her own* can subdue high-tiered characters with it in one to one combat. Common sense dictates that she isn't portrayed in that level. Not even her feats come close to suggesting that's plausible.


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## Bonly (Oct 25, 2013)

_Shintenshin no jutsu_ is no more broken than _Juken_ is, against a stationary opponent and when delivered under the best circumstances, combined with necessary support. Ino, compared to her part one incarnate has immensely improved during time skip. However, that doesn't necessarily grant her any chance of beating _kage level_ opponents head to head- especially those that stood up against Madara.

Don't get me wrong, _Shintenshin_ is an awesome jutsu but you'd need to give it some massive power-scaling to suggest that Ino *on her own* can subdue high-tiered characters with it in one to one combat. Common sense dictates that she isn't portrayed in that level. Not even her feats come close to suggesting that's plausible.


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## Shizune (Oct 25, 2013)

^ wait a minute...


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## Cord (Oct 25, 2013)

WTF BONLY.


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## Bonly (Oct 25, 2013)

WTF BONLY.


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## wooly Eullerex (Oct 25, 2013)

​


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## Turrin (Oct 26, 2013)

Shintenshin can be used to kill the target, such as having the target leap head first into a weapon and than release the Shintenshin right before the person makes contact with that weapon as Fu demonstrated. However if someone like AO can avoid this tactic, than I think we can expect most decently skilled Jonin to be capable of avoiding death this way. Of course it's different if Ino is willing to suicide herself to kill the enemy, but even in that case I would think her limit is taking down somewhat skilled Jonin like a Chojiro for example. And that's if she played her cards right. Otherwise I think the strongest she could possible beat w/o suiciding is someone like Jirobo. Ino is primarily a support nin after all.


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## Rocky (Oct 26, 2013)

The copycat is back


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## ueharakk (Oct 26, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> You're telling me Ino's body is too weak and slow and her reactions too sluggish use her own taijutsu.


What?  She's still using her own taijutsu, but obviously if she's in a body that's physically superior to her own and her skill doesn't change, she's going to be able to compete on a higher level in taijutsu.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> That sounds like something that would have been taken into account before she developed her style.  As in the very first step.


Style?  Ino was never stated or implied to have a unique taijutsu style, it's just skill, and obviously if you put two guys with the same level of skill in taijutsu against each other and give one of them a strength boost then he's going to have the advantage.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> *It's common sense that the body you would perform best in is the one you spend all your time living and training and developing.*  The reactions argument also seems stupid.  She can track and time and land her jutsu on Kinkaku with one moment of opening, but she has slow reactions.  She saved Choji by noticing he was freezing, cast her jutsu, landed it, took control, and intercepted Asuma's attack, and did the same across a battlefield to possess Obito a second time, but that doesn't show good reactions?  Both times she was acting after the attack.


 The bold is obviously untrue.  Ino in sandaime raikage's body would destroy ino in her own body if they were to have a taijutsu fight.  The only thing that would be true is that the body you are the most "efficient" with or are able to use to its fullest potential would be the original body, she's still restricted to the potential or the physicality of the body she's using regardless of how well she can use it.

When did I say she had slow reactions?  And what?  Kinkaku literally stood in the same spot as he blocked kunai, took chouji's barrel roll and got paralyzed by shikamaru's shadow.  There was no high speed movement on kinkaku's part for her to track.



The Pirate on Wheels said:


> If you're super fast with your jutsu, and can use them in reaction to other fast attacks, you have good reactions, or else you'll wind up with arguments like Minato can't react to attacks without hirishin, because he's only been shown to be super fast with hirashin.  So it's impossible for him to normal dodge and block or shunshin, and he just has to stand there and get punched until he showed the feats.  You can argue it, but it's really stupid.


I honestly don't know where you got the impression that I was saying ino has slow reactions, I think the only time i even mentioned reactions was when I said that ino has the same mental reactions and skill while in another person's body as she does while in her own.


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## Rinnegan Zetsu (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd have to say nobody except maybe academy students who lack skill like her.


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## Lace (Oct 26, 2013)

Why does everyone here hate Ino so much.


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## Synn (Oct 26, 2013)

Obito.


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## Synn (Oct 26, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Ino should be able to defeat some of her peers, but she doesn't have enough power/versatility to fight against Jounin (experienced) or Kage.



After Naruto, I'd say Ino is the most versatile shinobi out of the K11.

Also, it's funny that you say she lacks power to fight on even grounds with experienced Jounin, when she stood her ground against Asuma [1], who specializes in taijutsu, and forced him on the defensive later on [2]. I know the second page I linked doesn't depict Ino fighting him one on one, but the point still stands.

Ino is skilled enough to take on some experienced Jounin, but it all depends on who her opponent is and the location where the fight is taking place.

*I think Ino could defeat the likes of Hidan single-handedly, if she had knowledge on him beforehand.*


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## Samehadaman (Oct 26, 2013)

Turrin said:


> However if someone like AO can avoid this tactic



He didn't. Mei and Chojuro arrived and saved Ao, infact, Fu was still inside Ao when it happened but Mei saw through it.


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## Synn (Oct 26, 2013)

Samehadaman said:


> He didn't. Mei and Chojuro arrived and saved Ao, infact, Fu was still inside Ao when it happened but Mei saw through it.



Indeed. I was going to say the same thing, but I'm glad someone pointed it out.


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## Turrin (Oct 26, 2013)

Samehadaman said:


> He didn't. Mei and Chojuro arrived and saved Ao, infact, Fu was still inside Ao when it happened but Mei saw through it.


My bad it's been awhile since I read those chapters. So i guess Ino could perhaps take down some Jonin w/o resorting to killing herself.


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## Jagger (Oct 26, 2013)

Anlaced said:


> Why does everyone here hate Ino so much.


We don't hate her. We just debunk arguments of person that believe Ino can defeat a character she can't most of time. For example, if someone says Base Madara loses against SM Naruto and someone makes an argument saying SM Naruto can't win doesn't mean such person is a hater, but he actually have his own point of view over different scenarios that might occur during the fight.


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## SSMG (Oct 26, 2013)

She could beat ppl way out of her tier by switching bodies cutting the other persons throat and switch back to her body while her opponent is bleeding out... i could see the gokages and masters being the best she can. catch with this..if she can cath them that is..everyone past this tier has regen or a tailed beast to get her outta their head.


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## Jagger (Oct 26, 2013)

SSMG said:


> She could beat ppl way out of her tier by switching bodies cutting the other persons throat and switch back to her body while her opponent is bleeding out... i could see the gokages and masters being the best she can. catch with this..if she can cath them that is..everyone past this tier has regen or a tailed beast to get her outta their head.


No, she can't.

Both the master and the Kage destroy her without any kind of support. In order to do that, she needs to catch the opponent first and then, pray the jutsu does not break. Kakashi, Gai, A can easily close the distance between her and them.


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## Bitty (Oct 26, 2013)

Synn said:


> After Naruto, I'd say Ino is the most versatile shinobi out of the K11.
> 
> *I think Ino could defeat the likes of Hidan single-handedly, if she had knowledge on him beforehand.*



how does she beat Hidan by herself when Hidan outclassed Asuma & Shikamaru at the same time & Hidan can tank anything she throws at him?  Even if she manages to pull of a double ko & suicides herself with Shintenshin, Hidan would still technically win as he's going to mostly like still be alive after whatever she tries to pull off due to immortality.


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## SSMG (Oct 26, 2013)

@ Jagger How do they break it when they have no feats to show they can?


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## Jagger (Oct 26, 2013)

SSMG said:


> @ Jagger How do they break it when they have no feats to show they can?


Madara has not shown any feats of breaking _Shintenshin_, therebefore, he can't break it.

They are all highly experienced shinobi powerful enough to be choosen as the Kage of their own village. I am pretty sure they can break the jutsu of a Jounin-level shinobi.


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## SSMG (Oct 26, 2013)

Yes you are correct madara cannot break it unless shown otherwise... yet ino is shown catching high level opponents in her technique(obito while connected to the juubi) even if just for a split second so your point is moot.


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## Jagger (Oct 26, 2013)

SSMG said:


> *Yes you are correct madara cannot break it unless shown otherwise*... yet ino is shown catching high level opponents in her technique(obito while connected to the juubi) even if just for a split second so your point is moot.


Is this sarcasm to my example or are you serious? Lol.

You said it yourself. Ino caught Obito for one second, what can Ino do in one second? Pull out a kunai and aim it to her throat? That takes more than one second, if you didn't know that. Also, Ino caught an Obito completely unaware of her presence at all, that is not the scenario here.


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## Almesiva Moonshadow (Oct 26, 2013)

*I doubt Ino could best Sakura at this point, lest anyone else. *


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## DCI Kurusu (Oct 26, 2013)

She *might*, with very strong emphasis on the word _might_, be able to defeat a Pt 1 training dummy.


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## Synn (Oct 26, 2013)

Bitty said:


> how does she beat Hidan by herself when Hidan outclassed Asuma & Shikamaru at the same time & Hidan can tank anything she throws at him?  Even if she manages to pull of a double ko & suicides herself with Shintenshin, Hidan would still technically win as he's going to mostly like still be alive after whatever she tries to pull off due to immortality.



Please, read the entire post before quoting. Hidan outclassed Asuma & Shikamaru _without_ knowledge! If Asuma had known he was immortal when he fought Hidan, Hidan would've lost.

He can tank anything she throws at him? Remind me how Hidan was incapacitated by Shikamaru again?  Ino can simply mind switch, put an exploding tag on Hidan's face and go back to her body moments before the tag goes off. Headless Hidan isn't going to cause much trouble, that's for sure.

The only Yamanaka we saw willing to go as far as to take his own life for the success of his mission is Fuu. And suddenly everyone is under the impression that Yamanakas are kamikazes?


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## Kellogem (Oct 26, 2013)

Ino is useful, not strong... I cant see her beating anyone, cause she lacks the offensive techniques. She wont beat anyone with generic ninja techniques like throwing shuriken, and Shintenshin is slow and moves in a straight line, no wonder she needs Shikamarus kage mane or sneak attack. Anyone with decent speed can dodge it. She is for support.

But maybe she can beat Karin 




Synn said:


> Please, read the entire post before quoting. Hidan outclassed Asuma & Shikamaru _without_ knowledge! If Asuma had known he was immortal when he fought Hidan, Hidan would've lost.



bullshit. Hidan fought the way he did, cause Asuma had no knowledge, so he could afford getting hit, cause it would only hurt Asuma. the point of his technique.

he clearly outclassed Asuma in combat while the latter had Shikamarus support even - constantly avoiding the tentacles fending off Asumas attacks (who is supposed to be specialized in lose range combat) and even injuring him in the process. he was toying with him. Hidan would kill Ino in 5 seconds.


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## ueharakk (Oct 26, 2013)

SSMG said:


> She could beat ppl way out of her tier by switching bodies cutting the other persons throat and switch back to her body while her opponent is bleeding out... i could see the gokages and masters being the best she can. catch with this..if she can cath them that is..everyone past this tier has regen or a tailed beast to get her outta their head.



*ino's real body sustains any damage that she does to the body she's in.*  So if she cut a person's throat, her own throat would get cut as well.


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 26, 2013)

Synn said:


> Please, read the entire post before quoting. Hidan outclassed Asuma & Shikamaru _without_ knowledge! If Asuma had known he was immortal when he fought Hidan, Hidan would've lost.
> 
> He can tank anything she throws at him? Remind me how Hidan was incapacitated by Shikamaru again?  Ino can simply mind switch, put an exploding tag on Hidan's face and go back to her body moments before the tag goes off. Headless Hidan isn't going to cause much trouble, that's for sure.
> 
> The only Yamanaka we saw willing to go as far as to take his own life for the success of his mission is Fuu. And suddenly everyone is under the impression that Yamanakas are kamikazes?


Just like Hidan had no knowledge on his opponents. He did know he was immortal. He figured it out when Izumo and Kotetsu shoved swords through him. And he knew he had to behead him. He tried his best with Shikamaru's help, and lost. Hidan played around, had Asuma dead, and then Shikamaru saved him.

Hidan was hit with forest destroying katons and fuutons. It will take more than one exploding tag to take his head off. And this is assuming she can time it right. Hidan is fast. If she doesn't time it then he peels it off and it just blows up next to him. Even Sakura tanked that. Oh and considering Ino only hits targets with shintenshin that are immobile and/or dead, and she couldn't hit her sensei with it, I doubt she hits the person that easily defeated her sensei.

It's the only way for her to win. She has to hit someone with shintenshin which is already unlikely without Kyuubi/byakugan assistance, a sneak attack, and/or help teammates. So she is already going to lose to anyone mid-chuunin level or above. Like seriously part 1 Kankurou would beat her. Hell I would argue a part 1 Tenten would beat her. But even if she lands shintenshin by some miracle, she has no way to efficiently kill someone. Even someone as experienced as Fuu (arguably the best Yamanaka we have seen to date) was uncertain of the timing.


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## SSMG (Oct 26, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> *ino's real body sustains any damage that she does to the body she's in.*  So if she cut a person's throat, her own throat would get cut as well.



Oh damn I forgot all about this. Nice catch.


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## Synn (Oct 26, 2013)

Kell?gem said:


> Ino is useful, not strong... I cant see her beating anyone, cause she lacks the offensive techniques. She wont beat anyone with generic ninja techniques like throwing shuriken, and *Shintenshin is slow and moves in a straight line*, no wonder she needs Shikamarus kage mane or sneak attack. Anyone with decent speed can dodge it. She is for support.



You'd better catch up with the manga before posting here.


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## -JT- (Oct 27, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> *ino's real body sustains any damage that she does to the body she's in.*  So if she cut a person's throat, her own throat would get cut as well.





SSMG said:


> Oh damn I forgot all about this. Nice catch.



Ino can heal herself, so potentially she could cause a severe enough injury and then heal herself back up, but it's still a risky game.


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## Veracity (Oct 27, 2013)

-JT- said:


> Ino can heal herself, so potentially she could cause a severe enough injury and then heal herself back up, but it's still a risky game.



How many self healing feats does she have?


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 27, 2013)

Yeah what are people thinking can happen? Even if she can luckily get a shintenshin and hit somebody (which I have yet to see on someone that is actively moving and not immobile so good luck hitting anyone jounin level and higher) what is she gonna do? Slit his throat and then go back to her body and heal the damage? Sounds silly and unknown to even be possible before she can try to heal especially since she seems to take a second before returning to her body.


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## -JT- (Oct 27, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> How many self healing feats does she have?



None, but if she can heal others, she can heal herself. Just to clarify, I'm not talking regeneration, I just mean Mystical Palm.


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## Veracity (Oct 27, 2013)

-JT- said:


> None, but if she can heal others, she can heal herself. Just to clarify, I'm not talking regeneration, I just mean Mystical Palm.



Yeah I know what you mean, but Ino has never been mentioned to be an advanced or proficient medic for that matter. She has abosolutely no hype or feats to suggest anything really. Even Sakura who is undoubtedly a better medical ninja then Ino hasn't healed any mortally fatal wounds(and healing fatal wounds on oneself would be an even more difficultly task)

So if Ino is healing anything, it's going to be a minor wound that the opponent can most likely shrug off and finish her off.


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 27, 2013)

@JT

Yeah but it is a lot different for a surgeon to perform open heart surgery on himself then on another.  Same concept. She may be able to heal her self but can she do it while her throat is slit open?


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## Incognito (Oct 27, 2013)

In an isolated 1 vs 1 battle? Shes chunin level tier at best, her haxx - the mind-transfer jutsu- is only effective in team combat.


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## DeK3iDE (Oct 27, 2013)

-JT- said:


> None, but if she can heal others, she can heal herself. Just to clarify, I'm not talking regeneration, I just mean Mystical Palm.


she has some healing abilities, but it's not, nor has it ever been, on the same lvl as Sakura's or even those of the other reputable medics. 

More to the point, what one can assume here is a sword that cuts both ways. If Madara is assumed to be vulnerable until he is shown breaking it, then there's no way for anyone to argue that Ino can heal herself until she is shown doing it.


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## Synn (Oct 27, 2013)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> she has some healing abilities, but it's not, nor has it ever been, on the same lvl as Sakura's or even those of the other reputable medics.



How does that invalidate his point? The only time we've seen Ino struggle with medical ninjutsu is when Asuma was on his death bed, and she did say more than one vital organs had been hit [1].

Now we also know that back in the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, Neji apparently didn't sustain more severe wounds than Asuma [2]. And considering the amount of experienced medical nins present just to heal one organ, there's no way a medical nin could've saved Asuma from his fatal wounds, unless perhaps Tsunade herself.

Granted, Ino isn't an experienced medic nin compared to Sakura or Shizune, but she can use _Shōsen Jutsu_. Unless the enemy can damage one of her vital points, Ino would be just fine in recovering from sustained injuries.


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 27, 2013)

I think that proved his point actually. She would have to hit something vital when shintenshin is active. This would mortally wound the victim AND mortally wound her. Since it takes a "team" of medics to heal vital wounds then Ino would not stand a chance at healing her own self inflicted wounds.


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## -JT- (Oct 27, 2013)

Whatever way you flip the coin, I think we can agree that this is an unorthodox move for Ino anyway, when there exist much 'safer' suicide attempts, such as attaching exploding tags to her opponent's body (I assume these are standard ninja equipment) or doing some Fu-style decapitation (for those who say Ino's timing wouldn't be good, Inoichi said her speed of release has increased by leaps and bounds, and she got out of Kinkaku's body inbetween her calling out and him being sucked into the pot)


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## Alita (Oct 28, 2013)

Jagger said:


> No, she can't.
> 
> Both the master and the Kage destroy her without any kind of support. In order to do that, she needs to catch the opponent first and then, pray the jutsu does not break. Kakashi, Gai, A can easily close the distance between her and them.


You are aware that she caught obito twice with her mind transfer jutsu and that even BM naruto admitted her jutsu's speed was faster than him correct? She was also able to restrain/posses bijuu mode kinkaku with her technique as well who should be at least as strong if nor stronger physically and mentally than kakashi. 


Under the right conditions ino can beat kage level fighters IMO. Though obviously not in a standard one on one fight.


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## -JT- (Oct 28, 2013)

I'd just like to point out/clarify that although not confirmed, it is possible that Ino's base Shintenshin is at least close to KCM Naruto's speed, as no one else's jutsu had a speed increase (IIRC) when they were pumped up with the Kyuubi Chakra.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 28, 2013)

That speed varies quite a bit though. Are we talking naruto's regular/non shunshin speed where he gets tagged by V2 jinchuriki or are we talking about his shunshin that make raikage look like "Auh?"

Because even with the kyuubi boosting the speed of her move like it obviously did in canon i would not even joke that her jutsu speed is on a level close or higher than the fastest man's alive shunshin.


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## -JT- (Oct 28, 2013)

I don't know  Naruto said it was faster than him, but that's all we have to go on...


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 28, 2013)

Probably meant she was faster in the act of saving choji than him not that her jutsu's speed was able to outpace him.

It fits since ino repeatedly has shown perfect timing when it comes to using her jutsu in this arc.


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## Rosencrantz (Oct 29, 2013)

-JT- said:


> Whatever way you flip the coin, I think we can agree that this is an unorthodox move for Ino anyway, when there exist much 'safer' suicide attempts, such as attaching exploding tags to her opponent's body (I assume these are standard ninja equipment) or doing some Fu-style decapitation (for those who say Ino's timing wouldn't be good, Inoichi said her speed of release has increased by leaps and bounds, and she got out of Kinkaku's body inbetween her calling out and him being sucked into the pot)


The thing about the exploding tags is we have seen Sakura Haruno take one point blank to the gut. She was blown back but she was ok. Decapitation would be vicious but would she even have the tools on her to set that up? Yes Ino's shintenshin speed has increased, but she still has not hit anyone that wasn't thoroughly distracted, immobile, and/or dead. Her timing is good I am sure, but even someone like Fu could not be sure to time it correctly. And I think that is the point. Your timing can be good and you can still get it wrong. It is just not a sure thing. Even if by some miracle she hits her opponent with shintenshin, she can't for sure win.



Alita54 said:


> You are aware that she caught obito twice with her mind transfer jutsu and that even BM naruto admitted her jutsu's speed was faster than him correct? She was also able to restrain/posses bijuu mode kinkaku with her technique as well who should be at least as strong if nor stronger physically and mentally than kakashi.
> 
> 
> Under the right conditions ino can beat kage level fighters IMO. Though obviously not in a standard one on one fight.


She was enhanced both times. Once with Byakugan and also with Kyuubi chakra. And he was caught unawares. Here it is just Ino. She caught him for a couple seconds. How long she would have been able to sustain that is debatable. Kinkaku was also standing still and distracted by Chouji and then Shikamaru briefly.

Those right conditions basically involve teammates. Which means Ino wouldn't be beating the kage level fighters. Her team with her on it would. But like you said, obviously not in standard 1 on 1's.



-JT- said:


> I'd just like to point out/clarify that although not confirmed, it is possible that Ino's base Shintenshin is at least close to KCM Naruto's speed, as no one else's jutsu had a speed increase (IIRC) when they were pumped up with the Kyuubi Chakra.


Sure that is part of the increase. When attacking far lesser opponents she needed ample distraction and binding to land her shintenshin. Against Asuma she could not land it either. Never showed ridiculous speed until the enhancement.


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