# Silverback Gorilla vs Siberian Tiger



## EmperorThouzer (Oct 16, 2011)

Terrain: Center Of Jungle 

Stipulations:Both are fighting to protect their family


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## enzymeii (Oct 16, 2011)

EmperorThouzer said:


> Terrain: Center Of Jungle
> 
> *Stipulations:Both are fighting to protect their family*



So tragic... so noble... 

Siberian wins though


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm going with the Gorilla here thanks to its superior strength. The tiger can only win if it manages to to get a good bite on the ape's neck.


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## BlazeRON D' Zod (Oct 16, 2011)

Don't think it will be that hard for the tiger to sink its canines on the gorilla's back or skull.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

Assuming it can get close enough without getting clubbed to death by those beefy arms.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Oct 16, 2011)

How many tons can a Gorilla lift?


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## BlazeRON D' Zod (Oct 16, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Assuming it can get close enough without getting clubbed to death by those beefy arms.


Not a big deal for a predator that can take on buffalo. Even leopards have been know to take down Silver Backs if I'm not mistaken. The tiger's claws and teeth will be causing a lot more damage than anything the primate can hope to dish out, added to the gap in speed and agility the tiger has on its side. The tiger would have the strenght advantage as well granted siberians on average will have 60-70kg on a male gorilla.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

Some proof for all that would be great.


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## BlazeRON D' Zod (Oct 16, 2011)

I don't care enough to go through that though. But anyone doing its own research will find that tigers have much more under their belt when it comes to fighting or as killing machines in general when compared to gorillas.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

So basically you're not going to prove your own claims.

No reason for me to take what you've said seriously then.


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## Lucaniel (Oct 16, 2011)

well, it's not quite like laying your hands on scans


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 16, 2011)

Tigers are fearful predators:

[YOUTUBE]61rzK7y4p2M[/YOUTUBE]

Grand total of fucks given about an elephant being in the way? Zero. 

[YOUTUBE]ogd-Uj-sJHo[/YOUTUBE]

Finally:


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## enzymeii (Oct 16, 2011)

Charcan said:


> Tigers are fearful predators:
> 
> [YOUTUBE]61rzK7y4p2M[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> ...



This is the most chilling and ninja thing I've ever seen 

I had to rewind the video several times to figure out where the tiger came from...


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## HumanWine (Oct 16, 2011)

Discovery channel did this already. Gorilla breaks the tigers spine in one hit


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## enzymeii (Oct 16, 2011)

HumanWine said:


> Discovery channel did this already. Gorilla breaks the tigers spine in one hit



...because the Discovery Channel is the true source for authentic knoweldge in our culture? 

I also saw somewhere that a spartan would beat a samurai 

Also, according to the history channel, aliens guided the birth of the United States


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## Hunter (Oct 16, 2011)

The Tiger is more faster and agile than a Gorilla. The Tiger can easily pounce on the Gorilla and sink his teeth into the ape's neck and claw his face. It's been reported than a Siberian Tiger can and has killed male Lions and has been known to hunt Bears.


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## Lishenron (Oct 16, 2011)

HumanWine said:


> Discovery channel did this already. Gorilla breaks the tigers spine in one hit



Um...link?...

I severely doubt a gorilla is going to break it's spine. But im interested in that video.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

You guys act like the Gorilla's just going to sit there.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 16, 2011)

The gorilla is dead. like real dead. Leopards are a problem for them.


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## Cocoa (Oct 16, 2011)

enzymeii said:


> This is the most chilling and ninja thing I've ever seen
> 
> I had to rewind the video several times to figure out where the tiger came from...


I saw the grass moving and I knew where the Tiger would pop out. You have to pay attention to the grass' movement to follow the Tiger's movement.


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## HumanWine (Oct 16, 2011)

Link removed

Silverback vs Leopard. Yeah a tiger is alittle heavier than a tiger but pussy is pussy.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

HumanWine said:


> Link removed
> 
> Silverback vs Leopard. Yeah a tiger is alittle heavier than a tiger but pussy is pussy.


OHKO.

Even if that doesn't one shot the tiger it will still take severe damage and its mobility will be cut down as well.

The gorilla can flip a car with just one of its arms too.


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## Lishenron (Oct 16, 2011)




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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 16, 2011)

HumanWine said:


> Yeah a tiger is *alittle heavier than a tiger* but pussy is pussy.



Lolwut.





Spot the differences.


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## Nevermind (Oct 16, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> The gorilla can flip a car with just one of its arms too.



Never heard this before. 

I have heard reports of leopards killing Silverbacks though.

Honestly I just see the tiger just pouncing on the gorilla with its 3 inch claws and 4 inch canines and just shredding it apart before it can do anything. That's what cats are good at afterall.


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## Basilikos (Oct 16, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> Never heard this before.
> 
> I have heard reports of leopards killing Silverbacks though.
> 
> Honestly I just see the tiger just pouncing on the gorilla with its 3 inch claws and 4 inch canines and just shredding it apart before it can do anything. That's what cats are good at afterall.





Basilikos said:


> You guys act like the Gorilla's just going to sit there.



**

Moreover, if it can kill the leopard in one hit it can at the very least fuck up the tiger with that same strike.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 16, 2011)

Car flipping gorillas is news to me.

That's the kind of stuff people like Daredevil pull off in comics as top end feats. And he can use an Olympic weight set bar as melee weapon against multiple attackers without slowing down.


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## The Ninth Warlord (Oct 16, 2011)

Gorilla can break the tigers spine in one hit. GG


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## Lishenron (Oct 16, 2011)

I really hope that people aren't taking the video that was posted,seriously .

It's not even a decent representation of what would really occur.

brb karate chopping predators


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## BlazeRON D' Zod (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm yet to see a gorilla making such a short work or even killing anything comparable to its size as people around here seem to think they're capable of. Big primates mostly fight  eachother to inflict pain but they have low killing potential in face of another animal similar in size.

A gorilla needs a heck of a size advantage to have a chance of killing any opponent realistically, it definitively hasn't got a chance in hell against a buffalo killing apex predator like the tiger.


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## Zombehs (Oct 16, 2011)

Video was retarded. Or at least somewhat. Gorilla has senses like a humans. Okay. Leopard has stealth and night vision. Okay. Virtual Battle starts. Leopard is standing right in front of the gorilla. WTF?


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## enzymeii (Oct 16, 2011)

So.... what I'm gathering is that Gorillas may slightly outmatch leopards.  

That's not nearly enough to defeat a Siberian Tiger...


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## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 16, 2011)

Leopards actively hunt gorillas


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## Markness (Oct 17, 2011)

The video is pure edutainment. If you take it seriously, you need a reality check.
The gorilla was performing a karate chop which is a dead give away the video is bullshit. 

Gorillas are preyed upon by leopards which are smaller and weaker than tigers. Gorillas also lack a predatory instinct and fight more defensively than anything else. In their own fights amonst themselves, there are hardly any serious injuries. They don't have any weapons like a rhino's horn or elephant's tusks that can really clinch a fight. Even the bengal tiger that is smaller than the Siberian Tiger can make short work of crocodiles.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The concept of bloodlust seems to have been forgotten in this thread.


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 17, 2011)

If a tiger has the ability to kill a croc like penetrate its hid and kill it with a bite. Then the gorilla stand no chance in hell.


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## Markness (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> The concept of bloodlust seems to have been forgotten in this thread.



That won't change much since tigers can already kill even other predators.
The fact a gorilla doesn't have a predatory instinct doesn't help them either.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Esomark said:


> That won't change much since tigers can kill even other predators. The fact a gorilla doesn't have a predatory instinct doesn't help them either.


Again, bloodlust.

Standard OBD assumption.

And the gorilla one shots once the tiger is within arms reach.


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## Thdyingbreed (Oct 17, 2011)

If Gorilla's are preyed upon by Leopard's which are built much lighter then Tiger's, the Gorilla has little to no chance of winning this.

If a tiger can take down Guar, Gorilla's are going to be much easier for them to kill.

Tiger wins this 10/10 times.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys0dW9kNd5I[/YOUTUBE]


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 17, 2011)

This is getting silly.



Those are also big, strong, unlike gorillas have actual claws to go with the teeth, and Siberian tigers are still known to kill them on occasion. By pinning them down and _biting their spine_.


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## Markness (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Again, bloodlust.
> 
> Standard OBD assumption.
> 
> And the gorilla one shots once the tiger is within arms reach.



Are you kidding? Leopards are much lighter built than tigers and still kill gorillas so bloodlust isn't going to mean shit here.



Charcan said:


> This is getting silly.
> 
> 
> 
> Those are also big, strong, unlike gorillas have actual claws to go with the teeth, and Siberian tigers are still known to kill them on occasion. By pinning them down and _biting their spine_.



Indeed. Tigers can kill other predators so it's pretty much a no brainer they will win, bloodlusted or not.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Esomark said:


> Are you kidding? Leopards are much lighter built than tigers and still kill gorillas so bloodlust isn't going to mean shit here.


Does it seem like I'm kidding?

I'm genuinely not convinced. 

All I see are people in this thread dismissing the video without actually proving that it's wrong. Not to mention acting like the gorilla is just going to sit there like a bump on a log once the fight starts. The thing broke the leopard's back with one swing of its arm and is stated to be able to flip a car with said arm. How is the tiger going to tank attacks from something like that before getting close enough to bite the neck?
Do tell.

Discovery Channel has been airing nature shows for well over a decade now and get their info from actual scientists.

You bet your ass I'm going to take the word of Discovery Channel over the hearsay of some random people on the internet. People I have no way of verifying their credentials.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 17, 2011)

Since when is a simulation of killing a leopard proof of killing a much larger cat who preys on bigger, stronger and actually predatory game.


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## Roronoa-zoro (Oct 17, 2011)

Aren't Siberian Tigers the biggest cats on earth and are known to attack even bears? Plus, if I'm not mistaken that they have an extra fat layer on their bodies to insulate from the cold and an extra thick coat similar to bears to cope with the harsh Siberian winters. 

Yeah, If I were to bet, I would probably bet on a fully grown male Siberian Tiger, I mean these furry things can get really huge. Although, I could see a Silverback having a chance against female Siberian Tiger or a Bengal Tiger.


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## Samavarti (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> All I see are people in this thread dismissing the video without actually proving that it's wrong. Not to mention acting like the gorilla is just going to sit there like a bump on a log once the fight starts. The thing broke the leopard's back with one swing of its arm and is stated to be able to flip a car with said arm. How is the tiger going to tank attacks from something like that before getting close enough to bite the neck?
> Do tell.


Because The tiger is going to charge directly against thr gorilla, not like they had stealth abilitities, or they were faster than the gorilla.
Also Gorillas are hunted by leopard, and Siberian Tiger > Leopard



Basilikos said:


> Discovery Channel has been airing nature shows for well over a decade now and get their info from actual scientists.


I onece saw a documentary in the Discovery Channel about the live of the dragons, and how they raised they children, i guess it was bases on scientific information.



Basilikos said:


> You bet your ass I'm going to take the word of Discovery Channel over the hearsay of some random people on the internet. People I have no way of verifying their credentials.


And how are you going to verify the credentials of the people who made the video you posted, being in the discovery dosen't mean is true.

Also:


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> One possible predator of gorillas is the leopard. Gorilla remains have been found in leopard scat but it is possible that this may be the result of scavenging.[23] When the group is attacked by humans, leopards, or other gorillas, the silverback will protect them even at the cost of his own life.[24] *George Schaller* reported that a silverback gorilla and a leopard were both found dead from mutually inflicted wounds.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Samavarti said:


> Because The tiger is going to charge directly against thr gorilla, not like they had stealth abilitities, or they were faster than the gorilla.
> Also Gorillas are hunted by leopard, and Siberian Tiger > Leopard


I'd like the link for your supposed citation. Also, I'd like some proof that leopards regularly hunt silverbacks and are successful in their hunts.



> I onece saw a documentary in the Discovery Channel about the live of the dragons, and how they raised they children, i guess it was bases on scientific information.




That was merely hypothetical and done for fun. Dragons don't actually exist. Terrible counter example.



> And how are you going to verify the credentials of the people who made the video you posted, being in the discovery dosen't mean is true.


I'll start doubting what I read in my biology textbook then. 

Again, I trust the word of a group who has been doing nature shows for years without being called out on their info over the baseless assertions of random people off the internet.


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## Havoc (Oct 17, 2011)

A tiger could break the neck of a gorilla's with it's swipe.

It does it to water buffalo iirc.


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## Samavarti (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> I'd like the link for your supposed citation. Also, I'd like some proof that leopards regularly hunt silverbacks and are successful in their hunts.









Basilikos said:


> That was merely hypothetical and done for fun. Dragons don't actually exist. Terrible counter example..


Because fictonal battles against animals is a very serious matter, and a main concern of the scientific community, with a lot of important and trusthworthy people working in it.




Basilikos said:


> I'll start doubting what I read in my biology textbook then.


So if it's in the TV is has to be right, specially if it's in a serious channel like the dicovery, which has a lot of very relvant and serious documentarys about Dragons, OVNIS, Conspiracies, Fictional Battles Against Animals and Seeing things in slow motion, yep, it seems like a trustworthy source of information



Basilikos said:


> Again, I trust the word of a group who has been doing nature shows for years without being called out on their info over the baseless assertions of random people off the internet.


The same grouP that has soup operas, with animals?
Also could you tall me the name of all those trustworthy scientists behind the video?


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Samavarti said:


>


I checked the links of the footnotes.

Nothing suggests that leopards hunter gorillas regularly and/or win fights against them.

Your claims remain without basis.



> Because fictonal battles against animals is a very serious matter, and main concer of the scientific community, with a lot of importat and trusthworth people working in it.


Fights between various animals happen all the time in the wild. A gorilla fighting a leopard like here is not implausible considering they inhabit the same areas. Such fights might not be the primary concerns of the scientific community but the fight's conclusion was certainly based on scientific facts. If you bothered to watch the linked video or other episodes of this animal face off show, you would know this.



> So if it's in the TV is has to be right, specially if it's in a serious channel like the dicovery, which has a lot of very relvant and serious documentarys about Dragons, OVNIS, Conspiracies, Fictional Battles Against Animals and Seeing things in slow motion, yep, it seems like a trustworthy source of information


Strawman. Also, you've failed to distinguish between shows that DC airs based on scientific facts versus merely hypothetical and more fun oriented shows.



> The same grouP that has soup operas, with animals?
> Also could you tall me the name of all those trustworthy scientists behind the video?


Again, some of their shows are serious, other are not. I figured distinguishing between them would be obvious. But I suppose that transcends your cognitive faculties.

I don't have their names. But again, a show where they actually consult scientists who study the creatures in question and do some quantifying is far more reliable than the dismissal and hearsay you all have responded with.

Reply with something from a decently reliable source by actual scientists or don't respond at all.


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## Havoc (Oct 17, 2011)

You guys are so serious.


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## Markness (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> All I see are people in this thread dismissing the video without actually proving that it's wrong. Not to mention acting like the gorilla is just going to sit there like a bump on a log once the fight starts. The thing broke the leopard's back with one swing of its arm and is stated to be able to flip a car with said arm. How is the tiger going to tank attacks from something like that before getting close enough to bite the neck?



It's been pointed out here the gorilla performed a karate chop which is pure edutainment and not factual. Gorillas don't fight like humans do. You have to be pretty retarded to not see how exaggerated that video is.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Havoc said:


> You guys are so serious.


OBD.

I can't help it when people just dismiss things without properly refuting them. 



Esomark said:


> It's been pointed out here the gorilla performed a karate chop which is pure edutainment and not factual. Gorillas don't fight like humans do. You have to be pretty retarded to not see how exaggerated that video is.


A "karate chop" is just the gorilla swinging its arm downward. 

And stop ignoring my earlier posts. Provide a proper refutation or concede.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> You guys act like the Gorilla's just going to sit there.



to be fair unlike Chimps Gorillas aren't exactly balls to the wall whoop ass machines...They can man handle a tiger but they aren't exactly naturally geared towards 'beat the fuck out of it"

a good comparison is Leopards hunt Gorillas..but Chimps have been seen tearing them literally limb from limb on occasions 

with blood lust though could be different though Siberians are huge but they aren't exactly Grizzly bears so



Cocoa said:


> I saw the grass moving and I knew where the Tiger would pop out. You have to pay attention to the grass' movement to follow the Tiger's movement.



that clip makes me want to rewatch the Ghost and The Darkness



enzymeii said:


> I also saw somewhere that a spartan would beat a samurai



...you're saying that like it's factually incorrect 



Basilikos said:


> OHKO.
> 
> Even if that doesn't one shot the tiger it will still take severe damage and its mobility will be cut down as well.
> 
> The gorilla can flip a car with just one of its arms too.



That show was paid for by the same assholes who forced Navy Seals to throw a vs against Ninjas..because they feared loosing ratings because of butthurt weeaboos

basically it's widely panned as being massive heaps of bullshit..



Nevermind said:


> Never heard this before.
> .



I used to volunteer at the Metro Zoo when I was in highschool for their Zoo camp and one day I was shooting the shit with a Zoo keeper and asked him about how strong a male Gorilla was and he said he thought it wouldn't be insane if they benched about a thousand pounds..with out too much effort

not exactly concrete or scientific evidence though



Charcan said:


> Car flipping gorillas is news to me.
> .



A grizzly can do it..a Kodiak too mind you they absolutely shit all over Gorillas in terms of raw power



Lishenron said:


> I really hope that people aren't taking the video that was posted,seriously .
> 
> It's not even a decent representation of what would really occur.
> 
> brb karate chopping predators



the guys who handled that had Navy seals throw a fight with ninjas out of fear of loosing ratings

fuck that show



Charcan said:


> Since when is a simulation of killing a leopard proof of killing a much larger cat who preys on bigger, stronger and actually predatory game.



from a channel that like History..and Spike is known for outright fraudulently distorting crap in favor of ratings no less

seriously people actually trust these type of channels? fuck that noise


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> That show was paid for by the same assholes who forced Navy Seals to throw a vs against Ninjas..because they feared loosing ratings because of butthurt weeaboos
> 
> basically it's widely panned as being massive heaps of bullshit..


How does that disprove the video?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> How does that disprove the video?



are you seriously asking this question? The Show comes a network willing to offend millions by putting a retard who claims he found jesus dead body and then backs it up with zero proof..who has been exposed as a fucking fraud years before that - they already compromised a victory in another show for ratings from the same people no less

you cannot have seriously asked me this 'you realize your citing information form a network known for basically lying out of its ass and not caring about accuracy"  "so? what does that have to do with this show! and the karate chop!!"

for the love of god

in another episode they measure croc bite strength by creating a solid steel multi ton mouth..and using an industrial press to close it 'oh yeah totally liek..top bitez lolZ

fucking industrial machinery..

it;s bullshit Basilikos it's a heap of Fraud from a network of lying morons more interested in 2012 and ghosts than actual scientific accuracy


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## Samavarti (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> I checked the links of the footnotes.
> 
> Nothing suggests that leopards hunter gorillas regularly and/or win fights against them.


The fact that a Leopar can win a fight against a gorilla means that a Siberian Tiger who is far biger and stronger is going to kill the gorilla with much more ease.



Basilikos said:


> Your claims remain without basis.


Did you miss the link where they said Gorillas are predated by Leopards.




Basilikos said:


> Fights between various animals happen all the time in the wild. A gorilla fighting a leopard like here is not implausible considering they inhabit the same areas. Such fights might not be the primary concerns of the scientific community but the fight's conclusion was certainly based on scientific facts. If you bothered to watch the linked video or other episodes of this animal face off show, you would know this.


Based on what, there are a bunch of discovery programs that aren't based on scientific fact, Animal Face Off among them.
The fact that they make ffight about animals of two completly different habitats should give you a hint, of how serious the program is.




Basilikos said:


> Strawman. Also, you've failed to distinguish between shows that DC airs based on scientific facts versus merely hypothetical and more fun oriented shows.


So Hypothetical fights against animals, aren't hypothetical, .............right.




Basilikos said:


> Again, some of their shows are serious, other are not. I figured distinguishing between them would be obvious. But I suppose that transcends your cognitive faculties.


One a a gorilla give a karate chop to a leopard in mid air while in slow motion, and the gorilla acts like a toon, while narreted by a guy who speaks like a sports narrator, it means that the show is not very serious.



Basilikos said:


> I don't have their names. But again, a show where they actually consult scientists who study the creatures in question and do some quantifying is far more reliable than the dismissal and hearsay you all have responded with.


So you can't back up you arguments, because in the veido not a single scientific was named.



Basilikos said:


> Reply with something from a decently reliable source by actual scientists or don't respond at all.





> In some lowland areas including swamps, there are issues with crocodiles and gorillas. While they usually aren?t able to kill them, they can definitely cause some serious injuries that the gorilla isn?t able to recover from. Sometimes these crocodiles can successfully take down a weak gorilla though.





> Predators:	Leopards, crocodiles, humans





> The primary predators of the Western lowland gorilla are leopards and man





> Gorillas are threatened by leopards and hunters. There are also threatened by a loss of their natural habitat


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

y'know I totally didn't know crocs had steel jaws and had hydraulic powered gears for jaws..and all that..fucking beast wars must be a documentary about prehistoric life.

i mean Y'know that and the absolutely retarded way it behaved in its fight


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## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Easy fight for the Tiger.

Tiger outweighs it by at least 100 lbs (~500 vs ~400) on average, it has the strength to take down creatures far heavier than itself, and is familiar with fights to the death in intraspecific clashes. (I know both are bloodlusted...but just saying. How exactly will that hypothetically help a gorilla when it doesn't really have the killer instincts of a carnivore?)

The Gorilla is smaller, less agile, has no real weapons other than stupid arm windmilling tactics, is less POWERFUL, and its skin is extremely thin. Not much thicker than  human skin.

This is a cake fight. Gorilla is going to get its eyes scratched out, and be helpless, it won't even have time to bleed to death.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> are you seriously asking this question? The Show comes a network willing to offend millions by putting a retard who claims he found jesus dead body and then backs it up with zero proof..who has been exposed as a fucking fraud years before that - they already compromised a victory in another show for ratings from the same people no less
> 
> you cannot have seriously asked me this 'you realize your citing information form a network known for basically lying out of its ass and not caring about accuracy"  "so? what does that have to do with this show! and the karate chop!!"
> 
> ...


All you've done here is make a big genetic fallacy with some red herrings. I am asking for proof that the video is wrong.



Samavarti said:


> The fact that a Leopar can win a fight against a gorilla means that a Siberian Tiger who is far biger and stronger is going to kill the gorilla with much more ease.
> 
> Did you miss the link where they said Gorillas are predated by Leopards.


A one time fluke in where the fight ended in a tie is insufficient. I asked for regular successful occurrences of leopards downing silverbacks. You still have not provided this.

Post said link then to leopards regularly taking out silverbacks.



> Based on what, there are a bunch of discovery programs that aren't based on scientific fact, Animal Face Off among them.
> The fact that they make ffight about animals of two completly different habitats should give you a hint, of how serious the program is.


Prove that they aren't based on scientific fact. Discovery and Animal Planet both air this show. You honestly find it credible that they would willing put out false information and never get called out on it? Good luck proving your conspiracy theory.



> So Hypothetical fights against animals, aren't hypothetical, .............right.


Fallacy of equivocation. Hypothetical in referring to mere hypothesis (untested, unproven, speculative). That was in reference to the dragon special they did.



> One a a gorilla give a karate chop to a leopard in mid air while in slow motion, and the gorilla acts like a toon, while narreted by a guy who speaks like a sports narrator, it means that the show is not very serious.




It's a simulation. Style over substance fallacy.



> So you can't back up you arguments, because in the veido not a single scientific was named.


It's aired on DC and AP. Two channels who have not been called out by anyone in the scientific community for giving out false info.

Their word > yours.

And links to your quotations, please.


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## Solon Solute (Oct 17, 2011)

The Tiger, imo.


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## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos is definitely just trolling.

Animal Face-Off was universally laughed at. 

Not saying all its predictions were wrong or anything, but it wasn't anything indicative of actuality in the least.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

BenTennyson said:


> Basilikos is definitely just trolling.


I never troll in debate sections. Hell, I rarely troll in general.

Anyone who has known me on this site for a decent amount of time knows this already.



> Animal Face-Off was universally laughed at.
> 
> Not saying all its predictions were wrong or anything, but it wasn't anything indicative of actuality in the least.


Proof?


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## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

I used to frequent the message boards on discovery, and even the experts from the show posted there. They saw it as harmless fun, not to be taken seriously. The show is old as phuck, and no one references it seriously, that's all you need to realize.

Also, George Schaller (an American naturalist) recounted seeing a leopard and silverback dead from mutually inflicted wounds.

So there you have it. A 100 lb male leopard can be considered a GOOD sized a leopard, (they can certainly weigh less even while healthy) and 200 lb ones are veritable giants. 

So in all likelihood a  < or = 100 lb leopard (they aren't large in the regions where they coincide with gorillas) tied with a 400 lb gorilla.


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## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

I feel like a broken record asking people to source their bold claims.

Like the one above.


----------



## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm sorry for being rude, but, who the hell cares?

You're the only one unconvinced. 

That show is 7 years old, and its boards on discovery don't exist anymore.

The gorilla simply doesn't have a single notable advantage that could give it the victory.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> All you've done here is make a big genetic fallacy with some red herrings. I am asking for proof that the video is wrong.



and when you start throwing out terms like "genetic fallacy' and "red herring" it's a clear sign of copping out of the actual debate

The source is tainted..period it's guilty of putting an agenda above fact for profits sake..that nullifies evidence from said source on the basis of a history of dishonesty

that's all I need to invalidate your proof



Basilikos said:


> I never troll in debate sections. Hell, I rarely troll in general.
> 
> Anyone who has known me on this site for a decent amount of time knows this already.



and yet your purposely defending a source known for such dishonest methods that fans could probably win a fraud law suit against it..and are intentionally declaring this..enormously dangerous source be taken over say Charcans Nat Geo proof..or well common sense


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

BenTennyson said:


> I'm sorry for being rude, but, who the hell cares?
> 
> You're the only one.
> 
> ...


Then everything you've said here can be safely dismissed as baseless.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and when you start throwing out terms like "genetic fallacy' and "red herring" it's a clear sign of copping out of the actual debate
> 
> The source is tainted..period it's guilty of putting an agenda above fact for profits sake..that nullifies evidence from said source on the basis of a history of dishonesty
> 
> that's all I need to invalidate your proof


LOL yes of course. Fallacies in your argument make it sound.

Refute, don't deny. You've been here long enough to know this.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and yet your purposely defending a source known for such dishonest methods that fans could probably win a fraud law suit against it..and are intentionally declaring this..enormously dangerous source be taken over say Charcans Nat Geo proof..or well common sense


If it's so well known for being such an unreliable source then coughing up some proof shouldn't be difficult.

Yet, nobody here has done so. I wonder why. Provide a link to some scientists or just don't respond at all.


----------



## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Then everything you've said here can be safely dismissed as baseless.



But it won't, since, you know, I'm *right*. 


On the other hand you're clinging to some idea that the gorilla can like near one shot break a tiger's spine because some old kung fu simulation gorilla did it to a simulated leopard.

This is actually a pretty good troll job.


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

BenTennyson said:


> But it won't, since, you know, I'm *right*.


Where's your proof? Question begging doesn't count. 



> On the other hand you're clinging to some idea that the gorilla can like near one shot break a tiger's spine because some old kung fu simulation gorilla did it to a simulated leopard.
> 
> This is actually a pretty good troll job.


The gorilla swing its arm downward. What is so unbelievable about that?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> LOL yes of course. Fallacies in your argument make it sound.
> 
> Refute, don't deny. You've been here long enough to know this.



Don't start hiding behind fallacies to avoid actually debating 
*Source is poisoned.*.no fucking validity and you are directly ignoring other sources posted that in and of itself lends credence to bens accusation

go to Nat Geo or another respected source..and bring me corroborating evidence that isn't from one of the most BS filled untrustworthy sources out there

edit- This is getting insane I especially like when the other guys posts with actual proof got ignored..

fucking Gorillas taking on something that'd give a Grizzly bear trouble LOL


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Don't start hiding behind fallacies to avoid actually debating


The only one here avoiding debating is you. Unless you consider your tactic of repeating yourself to be right over and over like a spambot to be debating.



> *Source is poisoned.*.no fucking validity and you are directly ignoring other sources posted that in and of itself lends credence to bens accusation
> 
> go to Nat Geo or another respected source..and bring me corroborating evidence that isn't from one of the most BS filled untrustworthy sources out there


Again, link me to proof from a credible source that the show is poisoned. Support your claim or don't post. Don't shift the burden of proof onto me.


----------



## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Where's your proof? Question begging doesn't count.



People can look up for themselves what I presented if they want.

Why post sources for you when you have no evidence for anything _period_? I just can't be arsed to take you seriously.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> The only one here avoiding debating is you. Unless you consider your tactic of repeating yourself to be right over and over like a spambot to be debating.



you ignored the evidence of other posters and have parroted a demand for proof from the other side..

It isn't up to me to do your damn homework for you; you're the one ignoring evidence and clinging fanatically to that clip and claiming it isn't factually inaccurate it's your job to prove the Discovery Channel and Animal face off isn't basically Deadliest warrior version 1.0...



Basilikos said:


> Again, link me to proof from a credible source that the show is poisoned. Support your claim or don't post. Don't shift the burden of proof onto me.



when you acknowledge the work done by other posters instead of resorting to lecturing..pointless hostility..and hurling out Fallacy accusations as a crutch and I'll consider indulging you

you are a good debater but you did something I consider to be dishonest here..and until you rectify that you wont be extended any courtesies by me


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

BenTennyson said:


> People can look up for themselves what I presented if they want.


Shifting burden of proof fallacy.



> Why post sources for you when you have no evidence for anything _period_? *I just can't be arsed to take you seriously*.


The feelings are mutual.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm still trying to understand why industrial strength steel and a hydraulic press is considered a viable method of measuring maximum croc bite strength..when the record holders are easily researchable.

or y'know the cheaper method of crafting fake bones and muscle of similiar density..is both far more accurate and far less expensive..

or hell the cheapest and most common method of all..go to a fucking croc sanctuary grab the biggest adult male a PVC pipe and a pressure gauge and..let it go to town then scale it up to your specific proportions 

I mean really it's like they went out of their way..to wank


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you ignored the evidence of other posters and have parroted a demand for proof from the other side..
> 
> It isn't up to me to do your damn homework for you; you're the one ignoring evidence and clinging fanatically to that clip and claiming it isn't factually inaccurate it's your job to prove the Discovery Channel and Animal face off isn't basically Deadliest warrior version 1.0...


I already shot down Samavarti's arguments. What new arguments have you brought other than hearsay and burden of proof fallacies?

Answer: None. Nada. Zero.



> when you acknowledge the work done by other posters instead of resorting to lecturing..pointless hostility..and hurling out Fallacy accusations as a crutch and I'll consider indulging you
> 
> you are a good debater but you did something I consider to be dishonest here..and until you rectify that you wont be extended any courtesies by me


Again, I already poked holes in their faulty claims. If you think I missed something then let's see it. Post some articles from reputable sources.

You're one to talk. Spewing fallacies and still thinking you have a leg to stand on.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> I already shot down Samavarti's arguments. What new arguments have you brought other than hearsay and burden of proof fallacies?



you shot his arguments down? like hell..you must have missed Charcan oh well



Basilikos said:


> Answer: None. Nada. Zero.



I thought the only follower of Pencil was Gohan..hmm

incidentally you haven't actually bothered to answer what possible validity a show has that used industrial strength steel sharpened metal and a hydraulic press to measure shark and Croc bite strength as opposed to the far more honest and widely accepted methods..has

cause y'know if you wanna keep using a source that does nonsensical stunts like that..it might help you to y'know back it up by well respected traditional sources..or y'know actually prove it isn't a pile of shit



Basilikos said:


> Again, I already poked holes in their faulty claims. If you think I missed something then let's see it. Post some articles from reputable sources.



that's interesting national Geographic is faulty? let's see here

DC = a company that has intentionally rigged the outcome of many of their investigative shows

vs one of the oldest and most acknowledge sources on wildlife on the planet?

fine hole poking you did there..one guy brought scientific America and you brought Jerry springer



Basilikos said:


> You're one to talk. Spewing fallacies and still thinking you have a leg to stand on.



so Tiny Tim..when you gonna walk without that crutch?


----------



## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Again, hell of an epic troll job.

I gotta hand it to Basilikos for the 'Spam fallacy claims in light of lack of apparent content knowledge and debate substance' angle that he's working here, it's amusing but still manages to irk. Great job. 


Anyway, Tiger kills in 5 seconds, having given even elephants a difficult time in India. GG.


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

@IWD:

Still waiting for a link to a reliable source that DC and AP were lying or mistaken.

Your repeated hearsay is not an adequate substitute.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

so I guess Crocodiles and great white sharks have steel jaws with industrial strength hydraulics controlling them then..I mean y'know because that requires no proof to back up

or Great Apes knowing karate ?

See I don't think a blood lusted Gorilla is gonna last five seconds against a Siberian tiger it'll last longer..but a Siberian tiger could be problematic for a fucking Kodiak Bear...why oh why..is it loosing to a fucking Ape? any brown bear worth its salt shits on anything a Gorilla can do and Siberians hunt them every now and again?

hah! Ape kung fu must be powerful stuff


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

Still waiting for something to ground your claims.

Just saying.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Still waiting for something to ground your claims.
> 
> Just saying.



like I said I don't have to do your homework for you, you want to use a source that does crap like the above mentioned and does so despite knowing that , that's in  direct conflict with the proper procedure..and thus showing clear dishonesty go ahead. But it's been up to you..to validate it all along.


----------



## Basilikos (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> like I said I don't have to do your homework for you,


That's my line.

That source will show up any day now.

I'm sure of it.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> That's my line.
> 
> That source will show up any day now.
> 
> I'm sure of it.



so you can show me proof that Great white sharks have industrial strength steel jaws? with machine sharpened teeth and hydrualic presses that clamp for them?

or that inventing such a monstrosity is the valid method of quantifying bite-strength? as opposed to the typical "go out with rubber seal and a digital pressure gauge" way that's universally the proper method?


----------



## Hunter (Oct 17, 2011)

Going to post with proof. Just to give you an estimate amount of how outmatched a Gorilla is against a Siberian Tiger.




> Male adult silver back Gorilla's normally weigh about 180kg (400lbs) with a height of 5'6.





> The Siberian Tiger is the largest of all living cats in the world today. Adult males have been recorded reaching over 1,000 lbs! The average male weighs 650 lbs. Siberian Tigers are heavy, bulky cats and may reach extreme lengths with some head to tail measurements recorded at over 10 1/2 feet in length.



So let's see what we're looking at. We're looking at a Cat that that outweighs a Gorilla and sure as hell out weighs a Leopard who has been shown to kill Adult Silverbacks on occasion and even Giraffe's. And Tigers have been known to hunt and kill Bears which are much bigger than a Gorilla, post more threat than a Gorilla and much more powerful.

Now, we all know what a Lion is and have shown what a feared predator it is and called the King of the Jungle. Here are some facts from a male Lion. Male: Avg. Length: 9 ft. (2.7 meters), weight: 350-400 lbs. (157-180 Kg.). Around the same size of a Gorilla but I'm pretty sure a Lion can take on a Gorilla and win it out. And Tigers have been recorded to kill Lions on some occasions with ease and many Zoo's dare not risk putting these two beasts in the same cage many times. If you want proof on accounts that they have met, look .

So Tigers have on occasion kill bears, bulls, Lions, etc. While Leopards have killed adult Silverback Gorilla's and the Tiger is far more powerful and deadly than a Leopard in every way and just as nimble. The Tiger has the advantage in every proof it has been shown that it outweighs the Gorilla, and has killed beasts that are above the Gorilla. The Tiger only needs to pounce on it and the weight will set in on the Silverback pushing it to the ground and the Tiger only needs to bite his spine and or neck and if the Silverback by some miracle pushes it off the Tiger is an intelligent, careful, patient hunter and will take it's time killing the Silverback.


----------



## BurningSol (Oct 17, 2011)

Pretty much spot on Hunter.

The fact that we really need to put that's obvious but flies over majority of the people because we start to break down so many other misc things.  Tigers were built to kill prey items small, equal or much greater then themselves.  While Gorilla's are almost exclusively vegetarians, and will occasionally eat insects but that's like a small portion of their diet only.

I remember an article in which I can't find the sources too anymore.  However I do remember that one scientist within Russia who studied a certain group of Siberian Tigers stated that they were mainly exclusive to hunting the Brown Bears within that region.

Brown Bears on average are much larger then Tigers and without a doubt much larger then Gorilla's and without a doubt more powerful as well.  Yet these certain individuals had Brown Bears as a main source of their diet.

Their diets also consist of animals that are far larger then a Gorilla or the Tiger itself.  The Gaur is one of the prey items of Tigers and they can weigh in excess over 2,200+ lbs, and are the largest wild cattle in the world.  This prey item would be more imposing then any Silverback, but yet Tigers have been documented and even photographed with taking down a Gaur.  One such incident a few years ago showed photographs of a Gaur which was attacked by its hindquarters by a Bengal Tiger.

This incapacitated the Gaur in which it could no longer defend itself allowing the Tiger to eat the Gaur while it was still alive.

A Gorilla is obviously no slouch, and a Silverback at that would indeed be imposing, however its arms would not give it as big of an advantage as some may seem to think.  It's not like this Gorilla is sitting at arms length throwing out jabs and all at the Tiger like how a human with long advantageous arms would do.

Tigers also sport long forelimbs however the difference is that they have nearly 5 inch claws to go along with that.  Not to mention where as a Lion is built more front heavy, the Tiger is balanced in being built both front and back.

This is why Tigers instinctively during fights will stand upward and do swipes with their paws because their back hind quarters are just as strongly built as their front limbs giving them greater dexterity then their Lion cousins.

A Tiger would not only be faster then a Gorilla, but it would also be able to out maneuver a Gorilla as well, due to the way its engineered, and not only that, but in terms of strength, a Gorilla is strong, but a Tiger would be stronger because it's an animal engineered to kill prey two to three times its size.


----------



## eaebiakuya (Oct 17, 2011)

Tiger with ease. A Tiger can match 2 Gorillas at same time.

One tiger can match 3 Leopards at once, and Leopards already killed gorillas in ambush.

Made a Tiger vs 2 Gorillas or Jaguar vs Gorilla thread and we have a fight.

And animal face-off was not a great tv show.


----------



## ss5 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'd say the Gorilla takes this.  They are strong enough to break the tigers bones.  They are also very territorial and WILL fight to the death to protect it's family.


----------



## Raid3r2010 (Oct 17, 2011)

Im leaning toward Gorilla.

Their bite,mass and overal strength is above that of a siberian tiger.

Put her against a grizzly bear and you'll have a much better match.


----------



## Samavarti (Oct 17, 2011)

Basilikos said:


> Post said link then to leopards regularly taking out silverbacks.


To be considered a predator been able to take the animal you predate regualary is the most basic requirement.




Basilikos said:


> Prove that they aren't based on scientific fact. Discovery and Animal Planet both air this show. You honestly find it credible that they would willing put out false information and never get called out on it? Good luck proving your conspiracy theory.



appeal to belief fallacy.

Also Burden of Proof is on you not on me, and they have a bunch of programsa about fictional things, the severely damages ther credibilitie.
Also is a fucking program about animals fighting in one vs. one fights, called anime Face off, it's not supossed to be taken seriously.




Basilikos said:


> Fallacy of equivocation. Hypothetical in referring to mere hypothesis (untested, unproven, speculative). That was in reference to the dragon special they did.



Because testing the result with industrial machinery is a 100% fiable result.






Basilikos said:


> It's a simulation. Style over substance fallacy.


It barley has any sustance, it didn't provide much information about the gorilla or the leopard, and the fact that the simulation is so ridiculously done removes all seriousness from the program.




Basilikos said:


> It's aired on DC and AP. Two channels who have not been called out by anyone in the scientific community for giving out false info.


Why would scientific community  give a shit about who wins in an hypothetical fight between animals?, it's not even a program made to be taken seriously.
Is like expecting that marvel who call out Deadliest fictional warrios for giving wrong results.




Basilikos said:


> Their word > yours.


Good thing, they are not my word but scientists words.


Basilikos said:


> And links to your quotations, please.



who has been shown to kill Adult Silverbacks on occasion and even Giraffe's

Link removed
with local people's interests more relevant

who has been shown to kill Adult Silverbacks on occasion and even Giraffe's


----------



## eaebiakuya (Oct 17, 2011)

Raid3r2010 said:


> Im leaning toward Gorilla.
> 
> Their bite,mass and overal strength is above that of a siberian tiger.
> 
> Put her against a grizzly bear and you'll have a much better match.



Bear is heavier, faster, stronger, have claws, stronger bite and is a better killer. This is a stomp.

The Tiger vs Gorilla alredy is a stomp. Tiger is faster, better agility, have clawns and strongest and lethal bite.

But, Leopard dont pray in Silverback. Are very few cases, attacks in the night and ambush. But if a Leopard can kill a Gorilla fast, a Tiger can do with ease.


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Oct 17, 2011)

People are seriously underestimating the tiger and playing a little too much into the Hollywood ideals of the big, strong gorilla.

They are roughly the same size, with tigers sometimes getting bigger, but the tiger's arsenal is much more diverse and deadly.

Claws, teeth, stealth, speed, and strength vs teeth & strength.

Tiger outclasses, dodges, takes back, guts like a pig.


----------



## I3igAl (Oct 17, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> People are seriously underestimating the tiger and playing a little too much into the Hollywood ideals of the big, strong gorilla.
> 
> They are roughly the same size, with tigers sometimes getting bigger, but the tiger's arsenal is much more diverse and deadly.
> 
> ...



This. Even if the Gorilla has the power to hit with a spinebusting attack it is much more likely, that the tiger bites it's neck before.

That discovery channel video was bullshit. Everyone should see the ending was made for dramatic purposes. The chance of such a strike happening are really slim. 



The gorilla toppling a car with one arm should be valid, since those animal can lift up to 800kg. Him being able to break some leopards back isn't that much of a feat. A human sitting down on that thing(assuming the leopard doesn't move away) would probably have the same effect.

But it won't happen in a fight.


----------



## sonic546 (Oct 17, 2011)

Is somebody here actually taking Animal Face-off seriously?  

Mein gott...


----------



## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 17, 2011)

Gorilla wank should count as bestiality
Tigers are way too much, Gorillas aren't ultimate fighters either.


----------



## Huey Freeman (Oct 17, 2011)

Just for the record can't remember which post I saw it, the tiger does not have the strongest bitting force out the cat family that is the Jaguar reason being the jaguar kills it prey by breaking it's spine or crushing its skull. Its jaw and head is design way different.


----------



## pikachuwei (Oct 17, 2011)

Bears take out tigers much more often then tigers take out bears. That being said, tiger should win this

And the only good show left on Discovery Shit in years is Mythbusters.


----------



## BurningSol (Oct 17, 2011)

Huey Freeman said:


> Just for the record can't remember which post I saw it, the tiger does not have the strongest bitting force out the cat family that is the Jaguar reason being the jaguar kills it prey by breaking it's spine or crushing its skull. Its jaw and head is design way different.



Pretty spot on, the Jaguar in actuality lb for lb is the most powerful big cat of them all.  If a Jaguar could grow to the same size as that of the Tiger or Lion, it would the most imposing bit cat, and easily surpassing both animals.

The reason being is that the Jaguar for its size is the most robust and heavily muscled big cat.  So if say a Jaguar was capable of being up to over 400 lbs like how a Lion or Tiger is, they would easily surpass any tiger or lion without question.

Reasons Tigers and Lions are more threatening then a Jaguar is simply because they outweigh and outgrow the Leopard by a significant margin.  However the Jaguar's bite force exceeds those of all other big cats, and is only rivaled by the Clouded Leopard.  Well, in relations to simply Mammals, they have the most powerful bite-force and only surpassed by that of the Spotted Hyena.

Their is a reason why Jaguars can crush through the shells of turtles, and that's due to their wider and stronger jaws in contrast to Tigers or Lions.

Even a Jaguar would prove to be worthy adversary and imo it would be very capable of taking down even a Silverback Back Gorilla if it wanted too.  The reason being is that the largest male individuals can reach weights of 350 lbs which is as much as the weight of that of a Lioness or Tigress.

However being more heavily built I don't believe it's out of the question to make the judgment that a male Jaguar of that size would be even more imposing then a Lioness or Tigress at similar weight ranges.

A Gorilla is not going to be able to throw a Tiger around, because even if a Gorilla can grab and potentially bite, that bite will not be lethal.  Where as a Tigers bite would be, when it carries the longest canine teeth out of all felids at 4 inches, which is almost as long as that of their claws.

Not to mention a Tigers paw swiping would be even more effective then anything a Gorilla could do with its own arms because a Tiger has nearly 5 inch claws to go along with that.

Arm strength is powerful for a Gorilla, but those who simply state arm strength don't seem to realize that a Tiger also has incredibly powerful upper limbs as well.  Because they not only utilize arm strength but their weight along with their arm strength to pull down prey much larger then themselves.

Gaurs are a more threatening and more powerful animal then any Silverback without a question.  They would easily be able to ram, kick or stomp over a Tiger and killing it.  Yet these 1 ton+ behemoths will succumb to a Tiger.

Want to know whats even more amazing?  Bengal Tigers have been known to attack and even kill Asian Elephants, not just infants, or juveniles but fully grown Asian Elephants and they can weigh as much as 5 tons or more.



In one of those articles it shows a picture of a fully grown Asian Elephant being treated for Tiger wounds.  Given many of those links won't work but you can look it up on the internet and find the sources itself.

This only adds more to the credibility of the Tiger.  I mean, even being in the water isn't safe for humans as in recent times in the mangroves, Tigers have been shown jumping and swimming in the water only to burst themselves out of it and pull fishermen from their boats and killing them.

These big cats are absolutely no joke and the only reason they don't get as much lime light as the Lion is simply because from a documentary they are extremely, extremely difficult to document.

Where as Lions are social animals and more importantly they live on the plains, giving much greater and easier access to document them.  However Tigers thrive in the jungles, in most cases shun humans and are reclusive animals making them very difficult to document.

Their is a reason why we have more authentic videos of Lion fights, attacks and all of the above in contrast to Tigers.

So when I look at the present data, its not even going to be a fair fight.  Even the largest Jaguar would be more then a match for a Gorilla much less a Tiger.  Do not forget how successful Big Cats were, considering they were the most dominant and the apex predator in all regions that they occupy, and were only surpassed with the encroachment of homo-sapiens.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

> _According to modern research of wild Siberian tigers in Sikhote-Alin, an average adult male of more than 35 months of age weighs 176.4 kg (389 lb), the average asymptotic limit being 222.3 kg (490 lb); an adult tigress weighs 117.9 kg (260 lb). The mean weight of historical Siberian tigers is supposed to be higher: 215.3 kg (475 lb) for male tigers and 137.5 kg (303 lb) for females.
> Measurements of more than fifty captured individuals suggest that body size is similar to that of Bengal tigers.
> 
> The largest male, with largely assured references, measured 350 cm (140 in) "over curves", equivalent to 330 cm (130 in) between pegs. The tail length in fully grown males is about 1 m (39 in). Weights of up to 318 kg (700 lb) have been recorded and exceptionally large males weighing up to 384 kg (850 lb) are mentioned in the literature but, according to Maz?k, none of these cases can be confirmed via reliable sources.
> ...




now I'm not going to go with the Thousand pound weight because it's a captive Tiger and that fucker was probably morbidly obese...but I'll go with the 400 to 700 LB range

that means a Gorilla is either facing something that weighs as much as it does, or two hundred LB's more has the physical strength to bring an enormous amount of power to it's blow and the bite strength to chew into a fucking Bears spine

it's nuts  to think a Gorilla can take this "as soon as it get's into reach" fuck that noise a Siberian Tigers going to be bringing comparable power to it;s blows backed up by actual claws and powerful teeth- that means gorilla pure' 

now let's go onto Agility

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61rzK7y4p2M&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

an Indian tiger leaps ontop of a god damn Elephant..no fear no nothing this is like a scene out of a movie..

these guys are inferior physically to a siberian..and seriously whats stopping a an ST from hurling itself through the air and landing on a Gorilla using it's weight to force it down while chomping on it's throat? clawing on it?

y'know assuming a Gorilla really can one shot a Leopard

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtr_T9mL52w[/YOUTUBE]\

y'see a lion especially one that big makes a Leopard look like a mean little alley cat by comparison- they're also fully able to kill Leopards and Cheetahs...and yet a Tiger has no problem brawling with 'em...and in some cases coming off the winner (also god damn that Lions ripped)

I totally fucking buy the validity of the claim a Gorilla can one shot one of these bad boys :galacticryoma

also for comparison

here be some Gorilla brawls sorry I couldn't find better ones

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDYyv-iLmRY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItE4FQU784[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## HumanWine (Oct 17, 2011)

How I miss the tiger vs bear 
who has been shown to kill Adult Silverbacks on occasion and even Giraffe's

Tiger gets one shotted


----------



## Roronoa-zoro (Oct 17, 2011)

So by reading some of the posts, its Bears > Tigers > Gorillas = Leopards, right?

I think a better match would've been Lion and the Siberian Tiger.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

depends on the bear Zoro A black bear isn't pwning a Tiger..I've seen some vids of Asiatic lions vs Sun Bears and the Lion wins over those guys barely and it's usually an enormously bloody affair I'd think the same would go for a Tiger

a Kodiak (hell supposedly Kodiaks have been filmed killing and eating other bears) or Polar can probably kill a Siberian easy enough but a regular Brown bear/Grizzly should be able too but Siberians killing Brown bears means it's probably going to be problematic and tough

A Grizz would wtf pwn a Gorilla though hell a Black Bear would probably give it serious problems..if not outright kill it


----------



## Nevermind (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> depends on the bear Zoro A black bear isn't pwning a Tiger..I've seen some vids of Asiatic lions vs Sun Bears and the Lion wins over those guys barely and it's usually an enormously bloody affair I'd think the same would go for a Tiger
> 
> a Kodiak (hell supposedly Kodiaks have been filmed killing and eating other bears) or Polar can probably kill a Siberian easy enough but a regular Brown bear/Grizzly should be able too but Siberians killing Brown bears means it's probably going to be problematic and tough
> 
> A Grizz would wtf pwn a Gorilla though hell a Black Bear would probably give it serious problems..if not outright kill it



I've heard of Siberians having encounters with Brown Bears but never really killing them.

A Grizzly (subspecies of Brown, hence why I'm doubting a Siberian killing a Brown Bear) or Polar bear would stomp a Siberian though.


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## Roronoa-zoro (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> depends on the bear Zoro A black bear isn't pwning a Tiger..I've seen some vids of Asiatic lions vs Sun Bears and the Lion wins over those guys barely and it's usually an enormously bloody affair I'd think the same would go for a Tiger
> 
> a Kodiak (hell supposedly Kodiaks have been filmed killing and eating other bears) or Polar can probably kill a Siberian easy enough but a regular Brown bear/Grizzly should be able too but Siberians killing Brown bears means it's probably going to be problematic and tough
> 
> A Grizz would wtf pwn a Gorilla though hell a Black Bear would probably give it serious problems..if not outright kill it



Thanks for responding, makes sense. Also, I meant that a brown bear is on average stronger than a Sb. Tiger. 

And yea, Kodiak and Polar bears are huge, defentitly the strongest terrestrial carnivores on the Planet.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I've heard of Siberians having encounters with Brown Bears but never really killing them.
> 
> A Grizzly (subspecies of Brown, hence why I'm doubting a Siberian killing a Brown Bear) or Polar bear would stomp a Siberian though.



confrontations in the wild don't usually go like a vs match if a Tiger gets a drop on a Brown Bear a good sized seven hundred pound ST I mean..I can see it

that Bear turns around though and it gets muzzle to muzzle? Yeah I don't see it I mean Bears are tough as shit it'd be bloody but..

added Bonus since it's relevant to this topic (bears not even hurt wtf) and to the actual match

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tSm_LWX4Io[/YOUTUBE]

if this had been a Silver back it'd be dead The cougar would of mauled the shit out of it...and I'm pretty sure a decent sized Tiger has between fifty and a hundred and fifty pounds on those guys. Weight it can bring to bear in a paw strike to a Silver Backs neck or chest or face



Roronoa-zoro said:


> Thanks for responding, makes sense. Also, I meant that a brown bear is on average stronger than a Sb. Tiger.



considering they rip up SUV's  and stuff I'd say so



Roronoa-zoro said:


> And yea, Kodiak and Polar bears are huge, defentitly the strongest terrestrial carnivores on the Planet.



you heard some of them are interbreeding with Grizzly bears?


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## Nevermind (Oct 17, 2011)

I have actually. Some hunter shot a hybrid Grizzly/Polar a few years ago.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Nevermind said:


> I have actually. Some hunter shot a hybrid Grizzly/Polar a few years ago.



Imagine that but with a Kodiak polar hybrid..and tell me that isn't the single most terrifying scenario you can think of.


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## ? (Oct 17, 2011)

The tiger is better in almost everyway possible. It's bigger, faster, has claws, far more killing experience, etc. All the gorilla has is strength, and it isn't a big enough advantage for it to win. Plus, the tigers have killed animals far more dangerous than a gorilla while gorillas have lost to animals less dangerous than a tiger.


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## Cygnus45 (Oct 17, 2011)

> Also, George Schaller (an American naturalist) recounted seeing a leopard and silverback dead from mutually inflicted wounds.
> 
> So there you have it. A 100 lb male leopard can be considered a GOOD sized a leopard, (they can certainly weigh less even while healthy) and 200 lb ones are veritable giants



The leopard was 1/4th the weight of the gorilla, thus many times more agile, flexible and faster. You can't use that and then powerscale the feat for a larger, heavier, more robust tiger who fights completely differently. The gorilla would have had more trouble than a proud apex predator like a lion or tiger since those two would stand their ground and fight, rather than dance circles around the ape.

I'm not saying a tiger would lose, just commenting on the flaw in scaling up from a 100 lb leopard when tigers can weigh from 400-700.


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## CrazyMoronX (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> Imagine that but with a Kodiak polar hybrid..and tell me that isn't the single most terrifying scenario you can think of.



Yeah, but if they had a katana...


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## Roronoa-zoro (Oct 17, 2011)

CrazyMoronX said:


> Yeah, but if they had a katana...



They would probably lose, but if they sneaked up on them AND had a katana. . .


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## Huey Freeman (Oct 17, 2011)

Only a matter of time before bears can wield shot guns they'll take over.

"Get you filthy claws off me you damn dirty Bear!."


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## Lishenron (Oct 17, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDYyv-iLmRY[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZItE4FQU784[/YOUTUBE]


Not surprised you couldn't find many.  I looked for Lion vs Bear videos(managed to find a few), and tiger vs bear(though the bears in question, were pretty small)

But I've yet to see a video with a Gorilla fighting any type of predator. Usually, it's against other gorillas but meh.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Cygnus45 said:


> I'm not saying a tiger would lose, just commenting on the flaw in scaling up from a 100 lb leopard when tigers can weigh from 400-700.



point but you also have to realize Tigers are extremely agile can jump pretty god damn high (see the vid with the elephant) and are pretty swift for their size.

Hell Bears can be swift for their size and they have a few hundred pounds on both parties..I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss a Tigers maneuverability



Huey Freeman said:


> Only a matter of time before bears can wield shot guns they'll take over.
> 
> "Get you filthy claws off me you damn dirty Bear!."



if that had happened in the Rise remake..I would have actually watched that movie



Lishenron said:


> Not surprised you couldn't find many.  I looked for Lion vs Bear videos(managed to find a few), and tiger vs bear(though the bears in question, were pretty small)
> 
> But I've yet to see a video with a Gorilla fighting any type of predator. Usually, it's against other gorillas but meh.



There was a good one with two really pissed off Gorillas pounding the shit out of each other..and you could hear the echo's from the blows it was pretty impressive

mind you Elephant seal brawls impress me more..you have two animals that seem like they weigh a few thousand pounds just smashing their torso's and heads against each other often their usually covered in each others blood..freaken brutal

then there was that PBS documentary with the dead Juvenile bears one of them had it's head ripped open and it's brain chewed on Relic style with the narrator going "This is the work of an adult Male Kodiak "


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## BenTennyson (Oct 17, 2011)

Cygnus45 said:


> The leopard was 1/4th the weight of the gorilla, thus many times more agile, flexible and faster. You can't use that and then powerscale the feat for a larger, heavier, more robust tiger who fights completely differently. The gorilla would have had more trouble than a proud apex predator like a lion or tiger since those two would stand their ground and fight, rather than dance circles around the ape.
> 
> I'm not saying a tiger would lose, just commenting on the flaw in scaling up from a 100 lb leopard when tigers can weigh from 400-700.



No, they don't fight completely differently; no apex predator will fight a large prey item with no regards to its own safety--E.G. A lion or tiger is not going to engage a threatening prey item head on and disregard the idea of dodging because it feels it can't possibly be hurt by it. No, they will dance around and find openings because as a predator, it hunts to survive and it cannot take the risk of a inhibiting injury. 

Secondly, square-cube law is what you seem to referencing, and I am well aware of what it entails. However, in the scale we are talking about, the gap in relative strength and agility is not a great deal off.

When you have a 100 lb cat vs a 500 lb cat of similar proportions, it means the larger cat is dimensionally about 1.71 times bigger, 5 times heavier, and about 3 times stronger, (so proportionately not as strong and agile, as is the case with larger animals vs smaller ones.) but at this gap it doesn't make a big difference.

The point of referencing the Schaller account was to show that the Gorilla's one purported quality of strength was not enough to keep an animal 1/4 its weight from killing it. What happens when you make that animal multiple times larger, stronger, with proportionately bigger teeth and claws and only at the cost of a little bit of agility?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

there was a video posted twice of a bangal tiger leaping over an elephants head to get at it's rider

that pretty much debunks the concept of tigers being..some how not overly mobile


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## randomsurfer (Oct 17, 2011)

Roronoa-zoro said:


> Thanks for responding, makes sense. Also, I meant that a brown bear is on average stronger than a Sb. Tiger.
> 
> And yea, Kodiak and Polar bears are huge, defentitly the strongest terrestrial carnivores on the Planet.



Are you sure? Cause I tend to think that Hippo are the strongest terrestrial animal.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

Hippos have the highest body count of any animal in Africa I think


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## Cocoa (Oct 17, 2011)

Siberian Tiger wins...

Weigh advantage (if i remember correctly), speed advantage, weapon advantage...Tigers are better fighters. Siberian Tiger wins.


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 17, 2011)

randomsurfer said:


> Are you sure? Cause I tend to think that Hippo are the strongest terrestrial animal.




Hippo is not a carnivore. If you count everything Elephant > White Rhino >= Hippo

About Gorilla vs Leopard i think in a fight Gorilla should win more than lose, but they can die in a ambush. 

And i dont think cage fights is a strong argument in a animal fight. Is impossible know how the fight would go in the wild.

For me:

Polar Bear >= Kodiak Bear/Brown Bear > Tiger = Male Lion > Black Bear.

But the Brown Bear only beat the Tiger if he had the size advantage. In same size Tiger win more than lose.

Also...this is a nice study about Tiger vs Bear interaction in nature :


*Spoiler*: __ 



"Brown bear of Sikhote-Alin ecology, behaviour, protection and commercialisation”
I.V.Seryodkin December 2006


A few sentences of the elaboration first.



In this elaboration was collected all available research about brown bear ecology around Sikhote-Alin, among others:
G.F. Bromlej (1965),S.P. Kuczerenko (1972, 1983),W.K. Abramow (1975, 1979)W.E. Kostog?oda (1976, 1977, 1982), D.G. Pikunowa (1987) W.G. Judin (1993).
It was supplemented for newest scientific informations.
In the newest research of ussurian's brown bear's ecology used radiocollar first time in Russia. The latest research gives unknown earlier informations :
. "In the essential way knowledges about the interaction were supplemented between bears and tigers " (source: Seryodkin, I. V., J. M. Goodrich, A. V. Kostyrya, E. N. Smirnov, and D. G. Miquelle. 2005. Food relationships between tigers and bears in Sikhote-Alin )

The entire study consists of 252 sides including into it 27 tables and 47 pictures. Bibliography: 426 sources , in it 137 in foreign languages.(not Russian)

It is the fullest and most objective study scientific of this moment about Brown bear of Sikhote-Alin ecology
I am making very scientific informations and conclusions below:

Twelve (12) described accidents exist in scientific studies in which brown bear is killing and eating tiger (Sysojew, 1950; Sysojew, 1960; Abramow, 1962; Rakow, 1970; Gorochow, 1973; Kostog?od, 1981).


Diet of the brown bear:

Depending on the season participation of the meat, mainly carrion ungulate in the diet is growing and for instance in April is taking out as far as 46%
In examined excrement remains were found of predators
2,1% (brown and himalayan black bear, badger, raccoon Dog and tiger)
In the sequence of the entire year a participation of mammals in the diet of bear is a 8.7%
The fight is the most frequent reason of clashes between the tiger and bear against the prey shot by the tiger.
About 20 % carrion's bear comes from tigers's pray. Bears are tracking tigers and they are driving them off the prey
Four cases of simultaneous brown bear and female tiger stay by carrion were registered

Bears sometimes track tigers only to kill them


Diet of the tiger
Brown bear constitutes 1.4% of annual tiger food rations
In tested excrement of the tiger female bear and young bears were found only.
In none of tested excrement remains of the adult male of the brown bear were found.


Below is giving two cords for interesting Seryodkin's scientific studies


Chapter 11 The Status of Bears in Russia
11.1 The Biology and Conservation Status of
Brown Bears in the Russian Far East

www14.big.or.jp/~santilli/pdf/chapter11.pdf


Denning ecology of brown bears and Asiatic black bears
in the Russian Far East

ursusjournal.com/volumes/ursus14 -2/Ursus%2014%202%20Seryodkin%20et%20al..pdf






Who like to debate anima fighting, the best forum in internet about that is


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## DeathScream (Oct 17, 2011)

Sooooooooooooooo a Siberian tiger can kill a T-Rex on Bloodlusting crack?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 17, 2011)

duoranger said:


> Sooooooooooooooo a Siberian tiger can kill a T-Rex on Bloodlusting crack?



what the hell kind of question is that?


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## sonic546 (Oct 17, 2011)

duoranger said:


> Sooooooooooooooo a Siberian tiger can kill a T-Rex on Bloodlusting crack?





Stupid prat.


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## BurningSol (Oct 17, 2011)

It depends on the Brown Bears within Russia.  Amur (Siberian) Tigers have been known to attack and kill Brown Bears when their is a shortage of the tigers normal prey items.  Obviously ambushing the Brown Bear is the most likely case scenario because it would be foolish to try and attack it head on.  Considering the Brown Bear rarely makes up 2% of the Tigers diet it goes to show that they aren't a main source of diet unless again, no other food is readily available.

Not to mention a high end weighted Brown Bear would be physically imposing for even the largest Amur Tiger to contend against.  

On the notion of someone posting that the Tiger would lack the agility of the Leopard.  That's actually not really true at all.  Maybe in terms of quick burst run, however in terms of agility the Tiger is extremely agile.

In actuality a Tiger is far more agile and quicker to turn then a Lion, and this is because of what I stated earlier in that the Tiger is evenly balanced in terms of muscle distribution.  Their back legs are as equally powerful as their forelimbs giving them a greater bounce which gives them greater speed, agility and dexterity.

So a Tiger is not lacking in terms of speed whatsoever.  This is a powerfully built felid that is agile to boot.  

I would honestly choose a Bengal Tiger over the Amur (Siberian) Tiger simply because Bengal Tigers on average are far more aggressive then their slightly larger counterparts.  This would mean they would have greater intent to kill, however the Tiger subspecies that I would have chosen had they not gone extinct in the 1950's would've been the Caspian Tiger.

They were equal to the size of those of the Bengal Tigers however were notorious for being even more aggressive then Indian counterpart.  Caspian Tigers were also the ones used within the prime of the Roman Era during their coliseum battles for their high aggression however most likely they were the ones used because they were the most readily available tiger species within the or near the roman empire region.

Anyhow, I think I'm done with this thread, it should be pretty unanimous by now.


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## DeathScream (Oct 18, 2011)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> what the hell kind of question is that?



just saying that you guys are acting like half halotards saying that the Siberian Tiger is a Somekind of Predator thar rapes other Predators like nothing

Also Grizzly/Brown Bears are strong enough to rip skin from a human or a big animal with his claws like butter


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## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 18, 2011)

A t-rex is a whole other level brah.
Lets have a silverback vs t-rex fight. that should be interesting.


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## sonic546 (Oct 18, 2011)

duoranger said:


> just saying that you guys are acting like half halotards saying that the Siberian Tiger is a Somekind of Predator thar rapes other Predators like nothing
> 
> Also Grizzly/Brown Bears are strong enough to rip skin from a human or a big animal with his claws like butter



No.  We never stated anything of the sort.  You are a half-wit.  Begone.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Oct 18, 2011)

So this thread has finally reached the butthurt phase.

It's given me lulz throughout.


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## Cygnus45 (Oct 18, 2011)

BenTennyson said:


> No, they don't fight completely differently; no apex predator will fight a large prey item with no regards to its own safety--E.G. A lion or tiger is not going to engage a threatening prey item head on and disregard the idea of dodging because it feels it can't possibly be hurt by it. No, they will dance around and find openings because as a predator, it hunts to survive and it cannot take the risk of a inhibiting injury.
> 
> Secondly, square-cube law is what you seem to referencing, and I am well aware of what it entails. However, in the scale we are talking about, the gap in relative strength and agility is not a great deal off.
> 
> ...



Okay point made. But a leopard is still going to be _more_ agile and flexible than a tiger. 

I'm not saying a tiger isn't athletic, and I saw the elephant vid, but none of the big felines can match the grace of the leopard, a cat that is completely at home in huge trees and can easily avoid lions:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDLnx30RYmU[/YOUTUBE]

Let me put it this way: A speedy middle-weight box could fuck up a lumbering heavyweight, but the heavyweight could smash the opposition with one good punch. A speedy heavyweight (like Ali) would make short work of the lumbering types, but not nearly to the extent that a 50 lbs lighter middleweight could. It's simply not physically feasible most of the time.

The leopard vs gorilla fight was probably a lot like what would happen if a speedy middleweight with a good chin fought a lumbering heavyweight (George Foreman for example).

Again, I say that despite a tiger's well documented grace, you cannot scale it upwards from a leopard to determine how it would perform against the same target. And btw, if a tiger did run into a gorilla, it would be far less intimidated by the size and power since they're close in stature. The leopard would have been far more careful and calculating. Look at the strategy of the leopard in this vid:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOflR-UeWo[/YOUTUBE]


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## Cygnus45 (Oct 18, 2011)

> On the notion of someone posting that the Tiger would lack the agility of the Leopard. That's actually not really true at all. Maybe in terms of quick burst run, however in terms of agility the Tiger is extremely agile.
> 
> In actuality a Tiger is far more agile and quicker to turn then a Lion, and this is because of what I stated earlier in that the Tiger is evenly balanced in terms of muscle distribution. Their back legs are as equally powerful as their forelimbs giving them a greater bounce which gives them greater speed, agility and dexterity.



In the vid I posted it mentioned how leopards have more flexible ankles and their _bones are different_ (not to mention much lighter) than a lion's; able to climb backwards or turn around rapidly. They can easily avoid lions by climbing trees.

Again, I'm not saying a tiger is some slow lumbering predator, I'm just saying because they're built completely differently, you can't powerscale speed or fighting methods and apply them to the tiger unless biological similarities or documentation proves otherwise. We also don't know if the leopard ambushed the gorilla. Likely, it was desperately assaulting a young or wounded ape and the silverback attacked allowing the troop to escape. Or it was starving to death and had no choice but to attack a creature 4x it's weight.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 18, 2011)

duoranger said:


> just saying that you guys are acting like half halotards saying that the Siberian Tiger is a Somekind of Predator thar rapes other Predators like nothing
> 
> Also Grizzly/Brown Bears are strong enough to rip skin from a human or a big animal with his claws like butter



what the fuck are you talking about? No one here implied that.



Azrael Finalstar said:


> A t-rex is a whole other level brah.
> Lets have a silverback vs t-rex fight. that should be interesting.



a couple Sivlerbacks on PCP vs a T-rex


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## Unlosing Ranger (Oct 18, 2011)

100 in prime silverbacks vs a T-rex would be fun to watch


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## ss5 (Oct 20, 2011)

Does anybody even think about how the Gorilla can climb trees too.  If the Gorilla gets in the trees he would get the advantage.


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## Sengoku (Oct 20, 2011)

Where are the Spanish bulls in this mix?!

Bears > Bulls/Buffalos > Tiger/Lion > etc...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLVq8RWgYZk[/YOUTUBE]


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## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 20, 2011)

ss5 said:


> Does anybody even think about how the Gorilla can climb trees too.  If the Gorilla gets in the trees he would get the advantage.


 getting in the tree would do what exactly?


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## ss5 (Oct 20, 2011)

Azrael Finalstar said:


> getting in the tree would do what exactly?



Keep away from the Tiger, and if the Tiger climbed the tree, the gorilla can move around much more freely.  Which would give the Gorilla an obvious advantage.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Oct 20, 2011)

I really doubt the tiger would try following it up the tree,


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## eaebiakuya (Oct 20, 2011)

LOL with gorilla going to the tree. He is not a Ninja. 

He can escape from the fight going to the tree. But he dont have a special hability to fight using a tree. If a Gorrila face a Tiger or Lion in real life, he would run away(could go to a tree). But in this fight, both want fight, read the OP.

Big Bulls/Buffalos > Bears in some scenarios(and sizes).  But in a OPEN FIELD a Tiger or a Lion(male) can beat a Buffalo/Bull. In a enclosed area, Bull/Buffalo would win.


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## RickMartin Ben Janardhan (Oct 20, 2011)

enzymeii said:


> ...because the Discovery Channel is the true source for authentic knoweldge in our culture?
> 
> I also saw somewhere that a spartan would beat a samurai
> 
> Also, according to the history channel, aliens guided the birth of the United States



Why did i laugh at this soo hard?


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