# Is Naruto really weakened without Kurama?



## Dark Passenger (Feb 20, 2021)

Today we'll be discussing if Naruto is still considered "God Tier" even though he no longer has Kurama within him. From what I'm seeing, most people think think he's no longer as powerful as he once was. Unfortunately, this is true. However...



Let's get right to it. Anyone who watched Naruto The Last movie should be able to see that Naruto's still a very powerful presence even without Kurama, but I'll help breaking it down for you. Know that everything I mention depends on how well Kishimoto remembers his own story lol.

Kurama's Power: Even though Kurama's no longer with him, Naruto still has Kurama's power. 



This was said once before and recently in the Boruto manga before Naruto used Bargon Mode, but Naruto keeps the power in separate parts of his body to use whenever he likes. Further proof of that is here:



Basically, Naruto is still a Pseudo Jubi Jinchuriki even without Kurama as it's repeatedly shown and stated that his "Modes" and "Biju Chakra" are separate and permanent within him. 


Sage Mode: In Naruto The Last, Naruto used BSM to fight against Toneri. He was capable of instantly drawing the needed amount of natural energy to use Sage Mode, something that was once considered impossible. Further proof of his progression is here:



Naruto was running and using Sage Mode at the same time. Without Kurama, we may see him make use of Sage Mode more often. 

Base Stats: Naruto's base stats are noticeably more powerful than they were before as Hokage. Chakra drained (literally 50 percent in the anime) Naruto was able to react and take hits from Fused Momoshiki without modes. That's substantial given how much any mode boost his stats. 

With all this considered, is Naruto really weakened to the point where he's being considered by fans as no longer a threat to future enemies? No. Everything shown above should prove that Naruto's still a threat to anyone who doesn't take him seriously. 

Perhaps this was always foreshadowing future events since Naruto didn't use full power against most enemies anyway, which is why losing Biju Mode/Bombs probably aren't a huge boon for him. 

There's still room for him to get stronger in other ways since he lost all the raw power Kurama provided. Let's see what future chapters bring before we make crazy assumptions again.

Reactions: Like 2 | Disagree 2 | Optimistic 2


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## kayz (Feb 20, 2021)

Amado could also whip up something spectacular with scientific tools, who knows...

But still the risk of Amado ma manipulating it...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alita (Feb 20, 2021)

He is still a god tier but a weaker one obviously. Same case with sasuke.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Optimistic 3


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## kayz (Feb 20, 2021)

I won't be surprised if Naruto could still use his chakra mode but with his own chakra.

Reactions: Kage 1


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## AllheavenParagon (Feb 20, 2021)

I'm actually interested in what's he's gonna cook up next now that Kurama's gone, he should still have Six Paths Sage Mode regardless. But I would like it if he brought some changes into his fighting style.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Chaos Hokage (Feb 20, 2021)

I wonder how Naruto is going to be like power wise without Kurama.  I think he should still have some type of a healing factor due to him being born from a Jinchuriki and being one himself since he was born.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Feb 20, 2021)

AllheavenParagon said:


> I'm actually interested in what's he's gonna cook up next now that Kurama's gone, he should still have Six Paths Sage Mode regardless. But I would like it if he brought some changes into his fighting style.



Wep, dont know why some are mad about Kurama gone, actually some of us were waiting for a situation like this long time ago so that we can judge how strong Naruto is without Kurama and Rukudo chakra.

So the new development just work out for me.

We will likely see Naruto kick some ass before he eventually has Kurama back.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chaos Hokage (Feb 21, 2021)

redboy776 said:


> Wep, dont know why some are mad about Kurama gone, actually some of us were waiting for a situation like this long time ago so that we can judge how strong Naruto is without Kurama and Rukudo chakra.
> 
> So the new development just work out for me.
> 
> We will likely see Naruto kick some ass before he eventually has Kurama back.


I think Naruto will still have Six Paths chakra since he is like a pseudo-Jubi Jinchuriki from having a portion of the other Bijuu chakra within him.


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## Gen D (Feb 21, 2021)

I'm shocked at how much faith you have in this series. 
I really hope you guys aren't let down.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Funny 4 | Winner 2 | Useful 1 | Dislike 1


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## LardGenesis (Feb 21, 2021)

The chakra Naruto took from Kurama was finite ,it has run out.He just has toad SM which he has to Upgrade somehow

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Foxfoxal (Feb 21, 2021)

Gen D said:


> I'm shocked at how much faith you have in this series.
> I really hope you guys aren't let down.


He was getting beaten WITH Kurama and people expect to not get destroyed without him.

Naruto is not going to fight low levels enemies to begin with.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1


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## Soljah (Feb 21, 2021)

Naruto is gonna be like jiraoya or his dad now.  He still has a ton of chakra and he's learned stuff over the years.  Kurama just really boosted his chakra to ridiculous levels all the finishers were still rasengans etc.  Nobody is gonna shrug off any of naruto power moves still without kyubi just look at gaara he's fine.


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## Enlightened Almighty (Feb 21, 2021)

Generally speaking he's not weak without kurama, but we need to get the Author's intention from this chapter, which implies Naruto to be being very weak and nerfed from now on


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## Young Lord Minato (Feb 21, 2021)

It remains to be seen how much Kurama's loss will affect his power. I imagine he'll become as weak as the plot requires him to be.


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## TheOmega (Feb 21, 2021)

Losing all the Kyuubi Chakra doesn't mean he lost the other Bijuu or his Sage Mode. And he can still do Bijuudamas or Rasengans with the other Bijuus Chakra.

Maybe we'll see him utilize Hiraishin like he should've BEEN learned or maybe he'll start using Mokuton since he's got that Hashihand.

Either way, Naruto is still super duper strong.

Hopefully we see him doing his thing


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## Raiken (Feb 21, 2021)

Naruto was only Low God Tier at best when he still had 100% Kurama.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Disagree 1


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## Xhominid (Feb 21, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> He was getting beaten WITH Kurama and people expect to not get destroyed without him.
> 
> Naruto is not going to fight low levels enemies to begin with.



Because Boruto fans need to keep on slapping themselves hard to believe that Naruto and Sasuke aren't majorly gimped to get one over on people who recognized that they've been fucked without lube for no reason.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## everydayanimelover (Mar 17, 2021)

I don’t see why he’d be so weak without Kurama, In fact without him Naruto might actually train for real, he’s the reincarnation or transmigrant of Ashura (much like Sasuke is with Indra) so I never understood why he never unlocked the Mokuton like both Ashura and Hashirama did when literally every bad guy and their fucking goldfish got the mokuton. Or at least the Uzumaki adamantine sealing chains which from what I’ve read were said to be a signature ability of the Uzumaki clan.

He may actually train his Taijutsu (although from his fight with momoshiki it’s actually looking pretty good) and his elemental manipulation abilities, he was given magnet, lava and boil releases by the bijuu during the war, he could expand on them and the elements that combine to make them, and have a truly dangerous Jutsu arsenal, he has so much potential.

In my opinion Kurama always seemed to be more of a crutch to Naruto, with Kuramas power to fall back on he never really had the need to truly push himself and his own abilities and discover his own potential.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Grinningfox (Mar 17, 2021)

Yes

People need to stop thinking that Kurama is inconsequential even in regards to Godtier power

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Gen D (Mar 18, 2021)

everydayanimelover said:


> In fact without him Naruto might actually train for real,


Pfft. 
He had over 12 years to train in preparation for The Otsutsuki and other possible threats and he didn't do shit. 
 
You honestly think he'll do it now?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Mar 18, 2021)

Yes he is. What have you people been reading? Kurama is a major part of Naruto's power and you need to accept it

Reactions: Agree 4


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## everydayanimelover (Mar 18, 2021)

Gen D said:


> Pfft.
> He had over 12 years to train in preparation for The Otsutsuki and other possible threats and he didn't do shit.
> 
> You honestly think he'll do it now?


Yeah but i didn’t think he actually knew they were coming did he? Or did I miss something?
I was under the impression that he believed that world peace had been established and then yeah he let himself go a bit, stopped training the way he should have been. But that’s the point of what i said maybe this will be a wake up call for him to start taking things seriously


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## NearlyEnough (Mar 18, 2021)

The term god tier is stupid, Naruto was already weak before losing Kurama, the chakra mode was clearly just for show in Boruto because it didn’t make him look any less pathetic, at least now Boruto fanboys can stop pretending that Boruto isn’t a shit manga that ruined the most important and iconic character of the franchise and turned him into a joke.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Perfect Susano (Mar 18, 2021)

The same sentiment of Naruto being weaker is repeated by Boruto in this chapter. He will be capped at Toad Sage Mode.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## TheOmega (Mar 19, 2021)

everydayanimelover said:


> Yeah but i didn’t think he actually knew they were coming did he? Or did I miss something?
> I was under the impression that he believed that world peace had been established and then yeah he let himself go a bit, stopped training the way he should have been. But that’s the point of what i said maybe this will be a wake up call for him to start taking things seriously



Define "World peace" & you'll see what the problem is


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## Gen D (Mar 19, 2021)

everydayanimelover said:


> Yeah but i didn’t think he actually knew they were coming did he? Or did I miss something?
> I was under the impression that he believed that world peace had been established and then yeah he let himself go a bit, stopped training the way he should have been. But that’s the point of what i said maybe this will be a wake up call for him to start taking things seriously


Sasuke warned him years before that a possible threat that could challenge Kaguya was coming. This about the time Sarada was a very small child who couldn't form strong memories.

Naruto did nothing for a decade when he had the chance. It makes him look utterly brain damaged.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## TheOmega (Mar 19, 2021)

Gen D said:


> Sasuke warned him years before that a possible threat that could challenge Kaguya was coming. This about the time Sarada was a very small child who couldn't form strong memories.
> 
> Naruto did nothing for a decade when he had the change. It makes him look utterly brain damaged.



Considering that he used to train in anticipation of Akatsuki and every other fight he used to have it really does look bad. I guess he really was focused on the Hokage paperwork.

Poor Naruto wanted to be Hokage so bad that he kinda let it break some aspects of his character

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Djomla (Mar 19, 2021)

Yes, he is. Obviously.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (Mar 19, 2021)

Naruto’s own chakra has been mixing with Kurama’s for years at this point and Naruto Base has gotten much stronger; so the difference between Base Naruto and KCM Naruto is probably a lot less then people expect by now. With that said we don’t know if Naruto can use RSM still without Kurama or TBB.

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2


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## TheOmega (Mar 19, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Naruto’s own chakra has been mixing with Kurama’s for years at this point and Naruto Base has gotten much stronger; so the difference between Base Naruto and KCM Naruto is probably a lot less then people expect by now. With that said we don’t know if Naruto can use RSM still without Kurama or TBB.



Yea he can use em. It's called Rasengan


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

Naruto would be dead without Kurama

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Solace (Mar 30, 2021)

kurama124 said:


> Naruto would be dead without Kurama


I can tell this is an unbiased perspective

Reactions: Funny 3


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## AllheavenParagon (Mar 30, 2021)

kurama124 said:


> Naruto would be dead without Kurama


Kurama would be Gedo Mazo food without Naruto.

Either that or Obito's little bitch.

Most likely both.


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

AllheavenParagon said:


> Kurama would be Gedo Mazo food without Naruto.
> 
> Either that or Obito's little bitch.
> 
> Most likely both.


i guess so


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## Kurak (Mar 30, 2021)

He's now jiraya+ tier at best.


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## Sage King (Mar 30, 2021)

Hokage Naruto is fodder. He was getting wasted by Delta in his Kurama cloak.
Without Kurama he will be receiving worse beating.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

AllheavenParagon said:


> Kurama would be Gedo Mazo food without Naruto.
> 
> Either that or Obito's little bitch.
> 
> Most likely both.


yeah but naruto would be dead without kurama. battle against sasuke,severe injuries mastering Odama Rasengan,Mastering Rasen Shuriken,Summoning Jutsu and the battle against Madara

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Ejenku (Mar 30, 2021)

Naruto still has sage mode. Could learn Hirashin and all Uzumaki seals in one day. Implant more hashi cells to be hashirama or just become a ninjutsu god by learning new techs. He could also ask the other 8 bijuu for support. He would be fine honestly.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 2


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

Ejenku said:


> Naruto still has sage mode. Could learn Hirashin and all Uzumaki seals in one day. Implant more hashi cells to be hashirama or just become a ninjutsu god by learning new techs. He could also ask the other 8 bijuu for support. He would be fine honestly.


this is if he didn't have kyuubi. If he didn't have it then he wouldn't meet the other bijuu


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## AllheavenParagon (Mar 30, 2021)

kurama124 said:


> yeah but naruto would be dead without kurama. battle against sasuke,severe injuries mastering Odama Rasengan,Mastering Rasen Shuriken,Summoning Jutsu and the battle against Madara



That's good and all but how does this change my point tho?

I never said Naruto never needed Kurama, just that without him - Kurama would end up getting Sharingan Genjutsu'd by Obito and would eventually get 'killed' either way by being fed to the Gedo Mazo.

Also, the battle against Sasuke?

Without Kurama, Sasuke wouldn't have made it past the Gaara fight, and neither would have Sakura - so discussing anything that happened after that battle is pointless because the story would end right there since all the main characters are dead


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## TheOmega (Mar 30, 2021)

Ejenku said:


> Naruto still has sage mode. Could learn Hirashin and all Uzumaki seals in one day. Implant more hashi cells to be hashirama or just become a ninjutsu god by learning new techs. He could also ask the other 8 bijuu for support. He would be fine honestly.



Shouldn't have waited til he got gimped to learn Hiraishin and he woulda been good


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Shouldn't have waited til he got gimped to learn Hiraishin and he woulda been good


even if he got the flying raijin we would have been good but its not like thers anybody alive to teach him.


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## TheOmega (Mar 30, 2021)

kurama124 said:


> even if he got the flying raijin we would have been good but its not like thers anybody alive to teach him.


Who taught Minato?


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## Soljah (Mar 30, 2021)

Raizo and like 4 other ppl do know the flying hirashin minato taught it to em but they don't have the chakra to do it solo


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## Zef (Mar 30, 2021)

Kurama literally spelled it out for everyone




kayz said:


> Amado could also whip up something spectacular with scientific tools, who knows...
> 
> But still the risk of Amado ma manipulating it...


>_Amado will whip up something for Naruto negating the whole point of Naruto being nerfed._

Reactions: Agree 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Mar 30, 2021)

Naruto has had God tier showings in his Base state for years now

He is god tier without Kurama

And his amp he received from Hagoromo is >>>> Kurama anyway

Baby Six Paths Naruto w/o Kurama cloak > Juubi Jin Madara > Juubito > Juubi >>> Kurama

Mathmatically speaking, Naruto legit shouldnt even feel Kuramas influence anymore

Look at Sasuke, who lacked Kurama entirely, yet tired out at the exact same second Naruto did when they fought Jigen AND Momoshiki...And when they fought Jigen, Sasuke SHOWED UP nerfed as he had already travelled to 2 dimensions before the fight started...Naruto started fresh and yet they exhausted at the same time

So yeah

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Who taught Minato?


Jiraiya


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## kurama124 (Mar 30, 2021)

It says that the 3rd taught the Legendary Sannin and Jiraiya taught Naruto and the 4th

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Csdabest (Mar 30, 2021)

Kurama didnt lie when he said you will die. Just wait.....


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## TheOmega (Mar 30, 2021)

kurama124 said:


> Jiraiya





kurama124 said:


> It says that the 3rd taught the Legendary Sannin and Jiraiya taught Naruto and the 4th



So Jiraiya knew Hiraishin? That's news to me


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## Silver Wind (Apr 7, 2021)

Now sounds like a great time for Naruto to start using his dad's tech.


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## JuubiJigen (Apr 8, 2021)

kayz said:


> I won't be surprised if Naruto could still use his chakra mode but with his own chakra.


Or the left over bits of the other tailed beasts he still blatantly has. He specifically uses Son's chakra for lava rasenshuriken and he has used that since the war so.


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## GenryuKyuubi (Apr 9, 2021)

Wouldn't Naruto still have access to Asura's six armed avatar since he still has SPSM?


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## Gen D (Apr 9, 2021)

GenryuKyuubi said:


> Wouldn't Naruto still have access to Asura's six armed avatar since he still has SPSM?


That's based off his Kurama Avatar.


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## Kagutsutchi (Apr 9, 2021)

GenryuKyuubi said:


> Wouldn't Naruto still have access to Asura's six armed avatar since he still has SPSM?


No, the six armed avatar needs Kurama


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## Shadowofdeath (Jun 20, 2021)

Dark Passenger said:


> Today we'll be discussing if Naruto is still considered "God Tier" even though he no longer has Kurama within him. From what I'm seeing, most people think think he's no longer as powerful as he once was. Unfortunately, this is true. However...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thing taking the fact that Naruto was born a biju host and staying in a womb of a biju host his body could have had biologically made him create more kirana chakra without him knowing it ans stated by kurama he used to leak chakra from the seal so Naruto could replenish kurama chakra


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## JuubiJigen (Jun 21, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> No, the six armed avatar needs Kurama


Asura didn't need that to make his own


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## Dragonus-BB- (Jun 21, 2021)

Naruto isn't going to be winning any fights, so I don't see the point of running a reputation save thread given that you're just setting yourself up for mocking whenever he fights one of Amado's Cyborgs.

As in, it doesn't matter that people assert he's still strong, he's being set up as a damsel in distress to motivate Kawaki to regain Karma. With a Konoha kunoichi there not even denying the claims/espousing faith in weakened Naruto.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arles Celes (Jun 21, 2021)

His chakra reserves will take a hit and he wont have regen anymore.

His jutsus might stay just as strong though. Sans bijuudamas of course but he rarely uses those.

No automatic genjutsu defense so he needs to watch out for god tier genjutsu users.

Kurama wont gather chakra for him during battle and no more chakra mechas whether KA or AA.


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## TheOmega (Jun 21, 2021)

Naruto still has chakra from the other Bijuu. Chakra Mode, Bijuudama and all that other stuff are still on the table


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## Yagami1211 (Jun 21, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Naruto still has chakra from the other Bijuu. Chakra Mode, Bijuudama and all that other stuff are still on the table


Limited though. This chakra won't replenish.


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## TheOmega (Jun 21, 2021)

Yagami1211 said:


> Limited though. This chakra won't replenish.


I'm not so sure about that. Naruto is their new meeting place. If Kin/Gins cloaks worked even after they died and got Edo'd then Naruto should be a okay

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Altiora Night (Jun 21, 2021)

He no longer has access to Kurama's massive reserves of chakra and he can no longer don Kurama Mode, *but* people shouldn't bury him too quickly.

Kishi is most likely going to continue pushing the Naruto ~ Sasuke narrative, making Naruto around current Sasuke's level, whom BoruShiki considered a threat (same BoruShiki who thrashed Monster Boro).

Sasuke can still use Amaterasu, Kagutsuchi, and _*possibly*_ Susano'o as well.


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## Arles Celes (Jun 21, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> He no longer has access to Kurama's massive reserves of chakra and he can no longer don Kurama Mode, *but* people shouldn't bury him too quickly.
> 
> Kishi is most likely going to continue pushing the Naruto ~ Sasuke narrative, making Naruto around current Sasuke's level, whom BoruShiki considered a threat (same BoruShiki who thrashed Monster Boro).
> 
> Sasuke can still use Amaterasu, Kagutsuchi, and _*possibly*_ Susano'o as well.


Base Naruto did better against Fused Momo than all other kages combined so he clearly will be still stronger than anyone who is not Sasuke (who will either be stronger temporarily or they are equals due to both losing their power ups), a super cyborg or a really amazing Otsutsuki.


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## TheOmega (Jun 21, 2021)

Kuramaless Naruto is still stronger than Hashirama guys. That's no joke


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## Foxfoxal (Jun 21, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Kuramaless Naruto is still stronger than Hashirama guys. That's no joke


Lmao...The same Hashirama that destroyed Madara an Uchiha with EMS and Kurama+Susanoo?

Yeah Naruto is no matching Hashirama without Kurama.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## TheChosenOne22 (Jun 21, 2021)

It's irrelevant whether he's still strong or not. He won't look strong or use anything that makes him strong in the fights (given past experience in this manga), and no one in the manga treats him as a big deal for any of the current relevant threats. I don't know why you guys still cling to it when the reason he got nerfed is to take him out of the picture. The same goes for Sasuke


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## Kagutsutchi (Jun 21, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Lmao...The same Hashirama that destroyed Madara an Uchiha with EMS and Kurama+Susanoo?
> 
> Yeah Naruto is no matching Hashirama without Kurama.


And Naruto blasted Momoshiki into space with a rasengan and Ate Juubidama level attacks with zero chakra.

He and Hashirama are not on the same realm of power. Naruto is far stronger even in base

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheOmega (Jun 21, 2021)

Yea. That one. The one who has Sage Mode and Mokuton. Naruto can bust his ass.



Foxfoxal said:


> Lmao...The same Hashirama that destroyed Madara an Uchiha with EMS and Kurama+Susanoo?
> 
> Yeah Naruto is no matching Hashirama without Kurama.







Exactly. Naruto eclipsed Hashi & the gang back as a teenager lol. 


Kagutsutchi said:


> And Naruto blasted Momoshiki into space with a rasengan and Ate Juubidama level attacks with zero chakra.
> 
> He and Hashirama are not on the same realm of power. Naruto is far stronger even in base


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## Foxfoxal (Jun 22, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Yea. That one. The one who has Sage Mode and Mokuton. Naruto can bust his ass.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naruto never surpassed Hashirama until the Hagoromo boost... And that boost is long gone and now with Kurama.

Not flying, no truth seeking orbs, not 90% of his chakra, not megazord, not nukes...

You guys are dreaming.



Kagutsutchi said:


> And Naruto blasted Momoshiki into space with a rasengan and Ate Juubidama level attacks with zero chakra.
> 
> He and Hashirama are not on the same realm of power. Naruto is far stronger even in base


Boruto was the one who blasted Momoshiki with Sasuke's setting up everything. ( that makes that feat far less impressive when Momoshiki cannot react to a kid )

If he had zero chakra how he did the rasengan and why he had zero chakra but Sasuke could keep fighting when they suffered the same injuries? and let alone he has a bigger reserves than Sasuke and a tailed beast inside him to get more chakra.

You literally destroyed your two arguments yourself.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 1


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## xingi (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> If he had zero chakra how he did the rasengan and why he had zero chakra but Sasuke could keep fighting when they suffered the same injuries? and let alone he has a bigger reserves than Sasuke and a tailed beast inside him to get more chakra.


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## TheOmega (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Naruto never surpassed Hashirama until the Hagoromo boost... And that boost is long gone and now with Kurama.
> 
> Not flying, no truth seeking orbs, not 90% of his chakra, not megazord, not nukes...
> 
> ...


You do realize that the Hagoromo boost basically makes him another Ashura right? Not an Ashura Host. An actual Ashura.

He's transcended beyond Hashirama. The other Bijuu is just extra.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Foxfoxal (Jun 22, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> You do realize that the Hagoromo boost basically makes him another Ashura right? Not an Ashura Host. An actual Ashura.
> 
> He's transcended beyond Hashirama. The other Bijuu is just extra.


Hagoromo boost was the seal and sixth path chakra to force the awakening of his truth seeking orbs and some stats boost... Actual Naruto did not trascend shit when he lost 70% of his abilities.

And btw I forgot another think you guys love to use base Naruto feats on episode 65, but like to ignore that base Momoshiki sent him to fly with one kick and dodged his attacks the first time they met... Meanwhile Darui was living his best life fucking Momoshiki in close combat.

And to add extra salt, he lost his regen ability so now he is not even a tank.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Losing Kurama did deprive Naruto quite a bit of power but he is still an immensely powerful shinobi. His base is already Mid-High God Tier considering he was able to absolutely demolish Fused Momoshiki while drained and not even powered up. He also still has immense chakra reserves, not as much as before but more than enough for his Six Paths Sage Mode and normal Sage Mode. And Naruto will still have regeneration, he is a Uzumaki and its one of their base skills (remember when Kabuto integrated Uzumaki DNA into his body, he gained regneration on par of Orochimaru's if not better).

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Hagoromo boost was the seal and sixth path chakra to force the awakening of his truth seeking orbs and some stats boost... Actual Naruto did not trascend shit when he lost 70% of his abilities.


Chakra which participated in the creation of Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode, a form which he *kept*.

Naruto didn't lose that many abilities you're implying bud — he lost the Six Paths cloak and the ability to levitate that comes with it PLUS the ability to wield Truth-Seeker Orbs. He also lost the Yang seal's healing powers and the ability to cast Six Paths CT with Sasuke's cooperation.

He gained the other half of Kurama on the other hand, giving more raw power.



> And btw I forgot another think you guys love to use base Naruto feats on episode 65, but like to ignore that base Momoshiki sent him to fly with one kick and dodged his attacks the first time they met... Meanwhile Darui was living his best life fucking Momoshiki in close combat.


Darui was *assisted* by Gaara, and still couldn't land a hit on Momoshiki's body. Not even once.

Base Naruto's feats against Evolved Momoshiki are consistent meanwhile, whereas all it took was one hit for Momoshiki to one-shot the Kage.

Evolved Momoshiki hit Base Naruto with a flurry of hits and that still wasn't enough to put him down, and Naruto would still stand back up and carry on fighting.



> And to add extra salt, he lost his regen ability so now he is not even a tank.


This is asinine logic. What are you smoking ?

Regeneration =/= durability.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

To make up for Kurama's loss, he might have to start relying on the other Biju and would, in turn regain his Gudodama since it was the addition of their chakra which gave him the elemental natures needed to create them.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TheOmega (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Hagoromo boost was the seal and sixth path chakra to force the awakening of his truth seeking orbs and some stats boost... Actual Naruto did not trascend shit when he lost 70% of his abilities.
> 
> And btw I forgot another think you guys love to use base Naruto feats on episode 65, but like to ignore that base Momoshiki sent him to fly with one kick and dodged his attacks the first time they met... Meanwhile Darui was living his best life fucking Momoshiki in close combat.
> 
> And to add extra salt, he lost his regen ability so now he is not even a tank.


He was taking attacks in base that were fuckin up the moon

Hashirama ain't doin shit to him


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> He was taking attacks in base that were fuckin up the moon
> 
> Hashirama ain't doin shit to him


Hashirama is the most overrated character in the series. Naruto surpassed him in the War Arc but he is still thought of as weaker. What the hell would Hashirama even do against ANY Otsutsuki when fucking mindless Obito evicerated him without even trying.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

Naruto took on a guy with levitation & Truth-Seeker Orbs in The Last and he *BEAT* him.  

Naruto was handling those Truth-Seeker Orbs with a Rasengan in each palm of his hand.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## TheOmega (Jun 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> To make up for Kurama's loss, he might have to start relying on the other Biju and would, in turn regain his Gudodama since it was the addition of their chakra which gave him the elemental natures needed to create them.


I think the Gudodama are actually unavailable at the moment since he doesn't have the Kyuubi but he should still be able to use Bijuudama and the different elements of the other Bijuu.

He should still have the ability to make chakra cloaks he just probably won't have the cool Rikudo style jacket/markings anymore


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> Naruto took on a guy with levitation & Truth-Seeker Orbs in The Last and he *BEAT* him.
> 
> Naruto was handling those Truth-Seeker Orbs with a Rasengan in each palm of his hand.


YEAH. Heck you could even argue Naruto was HOLDING BACK against Toneri, he used Biju Sage Mode, NOT Six Paths Sage Mode against him.


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## TheOmega (Jun 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hashirama is the most overrated character in the series. Naruto surpassed him in the War Arc but he is still thought of as weaker. What the hell would Hashirama even do against ANY Otsutsuki when fucking mindless Obito evicerated him without even trying.


Hell yea. People forget Naruto is twice his age now. He's a grownass man now. Everything has increased so even without Kyuubi, he's still a beast.


Altiora Night said:


> Naruto took on a guy with levitation & Truth-Seeker Orbs in The Last and he *BEAT* him.
> 
> Naruto was handling those Truth-Seeker Orbs with a Rasengan in each palm of his hand.


Yup. Naruto can even detonate his Rasengan into beams for range or propulsion like Iron man. And his Rasenshurikens got CRAZY as he got older


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

TheOmega said:


> Hell yea. People forget Naruto is twice his age now. He's a grownass man now. Everything has increased so even without Kyuubi, he's still a beast.
> 
> Yup. Naruto can even detonate his Rasengan into beams for range or propulsion like Iron man. And his Rasenshurikens got CRAZY as he got older


People forget how broken Naruto is. Even Kishimoto, Kodachi, and Ikemoto considering the fact that Jigen nor Isshiki should have been that above Naruto. And it wouldn't be the first time that Naruto faced an opponent who was stronger than him (Pain) and won. The anime was a godsend for the Naruto and Sasuke vs Jigen fight since it actually REMEMBERED a fraction what Naruto could do and made the defeat a bit easier to stomach. Honestly, if Naruto was actually _allowed to fight like he did in the War Arc_ Jigen nor Isshiki would have been able to beat him. Even when powered up by Baryon Mode, he was nerfed at the end of the day.

I maintain to this day that Naruto could have beaten either of them if he was actually allowed to use his full arsenal _and_ use the strategies he used to get the better of Kakuzu, Nagato, and Obito.


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## accountmaker (Jun 22, 2021)

The fuck are you guys smoking? Naruto is significantly weaker without Kurama, and that was the entire point of him losing the 9tails

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> The fuck are you guys smoking? Naruto is significantly weaker without Kurama, and that was the entire point of him losing the 9tails


He's not _that_ much weaker. Naruto is still God Tier without Kurama as we've seen _several _times throughout the story ever since he met Hagoromo. He still has Hagoromo's chakra, the ability to talk and sync with the Biju, on top of his own vast chakra reserves, Uzumaki Healing, Life Force and Regeneration, and his Six Paths Sage Mode and normal Sage Mode. Like I said before, losing Kurama is a big loss but not as debilitating as it would be.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Foxfoxal (Jun 22, 2021)

accountmaker said:


> The fuck are you guys smoking? Naruto is significantly weaker without Kurama, and that was the entire point of him losing the 9tails


Pure denial, the manga literally said "we officially nerfed Naruto and Sasuke".

It's literally the reason why Sasuke lost his rinnegan at the same time as Kurama left and now Code confirmed that he can solo them.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Pure denial, the manga literally said "we officially nerfed Naruto and Sasuke".
> 
> It's literally the same reason why Sasuke lost his rinnegan at the same time as Kurama left.


Then the manga did a bad job since it showed that Naruto even without using Kurama's powers was manhandling God Tiers like Fused Momoshiki or, as we saw in The Last, easily dealing with the likes of Toneri. Seriously, this isn't Part I Naruto anymore, Naruto grew beyond the powers that Kurama gave him.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 22, 2021)

I know he was portrayed god tier even in base and that he has those shaneingans still, but Kurama's statement holds the most importance considering he knows all about Naruto


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> I know he was portrayed god tier even in base and that he has those shaneingans still, but Kurama's statement holds the most importance considering he knows all about Naruto


No one is denying that Naruto lost a big part of his power from losing Kurama, but Kurama isn't all that he had to rely on. Though knowing Kodachi and Ikemoto they will probably write Naruto as an anemic battler.


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No one is denying that Naruto lost a big part of his power from losing Kurama, but Kurama isn't all that he had to rely on. Though knowing Kodachi and Ikemoto they will probably write Naruto as an anemic battler.


Yea i know he has Rsm and other things as well. But wasnt it stated somewhere in anime or manga that Kurama is his greatest source of power or smth? So boruto writers may think Kurama is bigger amp than Rsm


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Extramarital Child said:


> Yea i know he has Rsm and other things as well. But wasnt it stated somewhere in anime or manga that Kurama is his greatest source of power or smth? So boruto writers may think Kurama is bigger amp than Rsm


No, it was never directly stated there. Kurama is a portion of Naruto's power but not the greatest source.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Kras Lee (Jun 22, 2021)

naruto doesnt have rsm anymore its just like the talking we had if naruto can still fly but he cant fly and now we waiting for his next fight to see if his eyes gonna be crossed without kurama but they wont be.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kras Lee said:


> naruto doesnt have rsm anymore its just like the talking we had if naruto can still fly but he cant fly and now we waiting for his next fight to see if his eyes gonna be crossed without kurama but they wont be.


Naruto retained Rikudo Sage Mode. We saw it every single time he had the cross eyes without the Sage Mode Pigmentation around his eyes.


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## Kras Lee (Jun 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto retained Rikudo Sage Mode. We saw it every single time he had the cross eyes without the Sage Mode Pigmentation around his eyes.



how would u react then if in his next fight his eyes are not crossed ?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Kras Lee said:


> how would u react then if in his next fight his eyes are not crossed ?


Dude, that's the trait of Six Paths Sage Mode. It was given to him by Hagoromo and is independent if he had Kurama or not.


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

When will people understand that the cloak with Truth-Seeker Orbs is *Nine-Tails Chakra Mode* ?

*Nine*-Tails Chakra Mode...
> *Nine* Truth-Seeker Orbs
> A giant fox avatar with *NINE* Tails when he goes Bijū Mode

Plus the _golden color_ which is meant to represent the 'Sky Fox' in Japanese mythology, the form gained by a kitsune (what Kurama is) after reaching 1000 years of age and sprouting its ninth tail.

*THIS* is Six Paths Sage Mode.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jun 22, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> When will people understand that the cloak with Truth-Seeker Orbs is *Nine-Tails Chakra Mode* ?
> 
> *Nine*-Tails Chakra Mode...
> > *Nine* Truth-Seeker Orbs
> ...


Naruto is likely going to be able to form Asura's battle avatar now to make up for losing Kurama since he'll be able to fall back on Asura's powers too.


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## WhoFedAhri? (Jun 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto is likely going to be able to form Asura's battle avatar now to make up for losing Kurama since he'll be able to fall back on Asura's powers too.


Assuming writers havent forgotten Asura avatar.


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## Kras Lee (Jun 22, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> *THIS* is Six Paths Sage Mode.



exactly. which means if we dont see him like this in his next fight then he have lost rsm long ago


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

Kras Lee said:


> ...he have lost rsm *long ago*


And what do you mean by 'long ago' ?


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## Kras Lee (Jun 22, 2021)

Altiora Night said:


> And what do you mean by 'long ago' ?



when they lost their arms obviously

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Altiora Night (Jun 22, 2021)

Kras Lee said:


> when they lost their arms obviously


Nonsense.

Look at his eyes.



*The telltale toad slats + fox slits PLUS the lack of pigmentations around the eyes that indicate use of Rikudō Sennin Mōdo (Six Paths Sage Mode).*

Naruto even mentioned both Six Paths Sage Mode & Kurama Mode in his fight against Isshiki and how the 2 forms he's been using are different from Baryon Mode.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Jun 22, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Boruto was the one who blasted Momoshiki with Sasuke's setting up everything. ( that makes that feat far less impressive


You must be smoking dick. 




Foxfoxal said:


> If he had zero chakra how he did the rasengan


Him doing the rasengan and him having zero chakra when tanking the attack happened at different times, a 13 year time gap in fact. 

Naruto gave Boruto the chakra for the rasengan and you know this so you're pretending to be stupid right now. And Naruto tanked the chakra explosion in The Last movie



Foxfoxal said:


> You literally destroyed your two arguments yourself.


^ (use bro) what are you even talking about? You sound like those Twitter retards who know of this series through YouTube clips

Reactions: Like 1


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## LawdyLawd (Jun 22, 2021)

Samadhi Sate Eightfolds Path Sage Mode 

long live red boy


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## Gen D (Jul 18, 2021)

It would be interesting, to me at least, if they wrote it in a way Naruto himself could replicate Kurama's power. 

After being exposed to Kurama for so long and being the only shinobi in history to basically share Chakra with Nine Tails 24/7 (with the open seal), it makes sense to me that Naruto's Chakra would take on attributes of Kurama's. 

Perhaps a collection of Naruto's Chakra could measure up to a smaller percentage of Kurama's chakra. This way, Naruto could still manifest Six Paths Senjutsu with the other Tailed Beasts' powers, but he would be working on his own reserves. Hence, he would exhaust himself far more quickly. 

This is mirrored with Gaara. Who, despite having Shukaku removed, could still manipulate sand. 

Just a thought.


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## Foxfoxal (Jul 18, 2021)

Kurama is a chakra tank... He did not have a special property like the other bijuus... Kurama burned every piece of his chakra, it makes no sense for Naruto to retain his powers... Bayron mode itself was designed so nothing from Kurama remains.


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## Gen D (Jul 18, 2021)

Foxfoxal said:


> Kurama is a chakra tank... He did not have a special property like the other bijuus... Kurama burned every piece of his chakra, it makes no sense for Naruto to retain his powers... Bayron mode itself was designed so nothing from Kurama remains.


I'm assuming you're replying to me.

My is not that a piece of Kurama remained inside of Naruto's Chakra. 
It is that a piece Naruto's Chakra came to reflect attributes of Kurama's. 
Imagine a white and red shirt in a washing machine. The white shirt is tinted red from being in the same solution.


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## 1Person (Jul 18, 2021)

Really hoping he starts using the chakra from the other bijuus more now.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Raiken (Jul 18, 2021)

Bruh he's 'Bottom of the Barrel' God Tier with Kurama.

Without Kurama I'm skeptical if he's even Founder Tier anymore. And if he is, it'll be Low-Founder Tier. That's just based on an Adult-SM Naruto though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KillBadDebators (Jul 19, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto retained Rikudo Sage Mode. We saw it every single time he had the cross eyes without the Sage Mode Pigmentation around his eyes.


He can't fly, nor has gudodama


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 19, 2021)

KillBadDebators said:


> He can't fly, nor has gudodama


Neither of which are traits of Rikudo Sage Mode. Hell he was flying in BSM in the Last.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KillBadDebators (Jul 19, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Neither of which are traits of Rikudo Sage Mode. Hell he was flying in BSM in the Last.


Filler trash


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 19, 2021)

KillBadDebators said:


> Filler trash


Canon movie actually. Sorry not sorry.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## PFM18 (Jul 19, 2021)

He's still got Sage Mode of Six paths, and his base is clearly way stronger than during shippuden, so he's still clearly the strongest kage by a wide margin. He's just substantially weaker as he no longer has access to KCM2, or the Kurama Avatar, and therefore his Ashura Avatar. And since the Kurama avatar is basically his equivalent of Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo, he basically lost a huge power that he has ordinarily, given he doesn't have KCM2, and he basically lost access to his version of the perfect susanoo, in the kurama avatar, so he's definitely FAR weaker than he  was before, but he's still basically king of the shinobi world, especially since Sasuke also got a lot weaker. They're still the two strongest Shinobi, albeit far weaker.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PFM18 (Jul 19, 2021)

Perfect Susano said:


> He will be capped at Toad Sage Mode.


No? He still has sage of 6 paths, kurama being gone doesn't prevent him from having it.


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## 1Person (Jul 19, 2021)

KillBadDebators said:


> He can't fly, nor has gudodama


He flew in The Last, several times during the boruto anime and a bit during the isshiki fight.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sage King (Jul 20, 2021)

Hokage Naruto is nothing without what was portrayed as his biggest power source in Boruto.
He was a fodder with Kurama without Kurama he is garbage.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## aiyanah (Jul 20, 2021)

Depends how many clones he can make sans kurama.
Also if he can accumulate natural energy without using a clone


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## PFM18 (Jul 22, 2021)

Sage King said:


> Hokage Naruto is nothing without what was portrayed as his biggest power source in Boruto.
> He was a fodder with Kurama without Kurama he is garbage.


He still has Six Paths Sage Mode, which makes him categorically the strongest Kage, still.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 22, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> He still has Six Paths Sage Mode, which makes him categorically the strongest Kage, still.


And the strongest Hokage too.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jul 22, 2021)

I think Naruto (and Sasuke) will have to start tapping into their previous live's powers ala the Avatar State now to make up for the loss of Kurama and the Rinnegan respectfully. After all, Asura and Indra were _immensely_ powerful and it could potentially mean Naruto unlocks Hashirama's and Sasuke unlocks Madara's powers respectfully. If you're gonna make them reincarnates, go all out since this opens the way for said powers to be used.


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## PFM18 (Jul 22, 2021)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And the strongest Hokage too.


Oh yeah of course. He was stronger than Hashirama in BSM as a 15 year old, Sage of Six Paths without Kurama Mode is a stronger form than KCM2+Sage Mode, we saw this against Madara and Adult Naruto>>>>>>15 year old Naruto.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perfect Susano (Jul 22, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> No? He still has sage of 6 paths, kurama being gone doesn't prevent him from having it.


Kurama is the linchpin for all of Naruto's higher powers. The story makes this very obvious.


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## PFM18 (Jul 22, 2021)

Perfect Susano said:


> Kurama is the linchpin for all of Naruto's higher powers. The story makes this very obvious.


There's nothing about sage mode of six paths that requires kurama. Sure, he amps his SPSM with Kurama Mode, still doesn't mean the form requires kurama

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Perfect Susano (Jul 22, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> There's nothing about sage mode of six paths that requires kurama. Sure, he amps his SPSM with Kurama Mode, still doesn't mean the form requires kurama


Unless Naruto has the Yang Seal then it requires Kurama. Naruto no longer has the powers of a Jinchuriki after losing Kurama. That includes the jinchuriki abilities of all the other Biju which he needs RSM to use.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## PFM18 (Jul 22, 2021)

Perfect Susano said:


> Unless Naruto has the Yang Seal then it requires Kurama. Naruto no longer has the powers of a Jinchuriki after losing Kurama. That includes the jinchuriki abilities of all the other Biju which he needs RSM to use.


I don't see why it would require Kurama. I don't really get what you're trying to say


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## Raiden (Jul 22, 2021)

Hard to say but I guess this was done on purpose to take Kurama Mode and the other modes off the table. It doesn't make sense to me since the villians could believably fight those modes. 

I guess we'll see him get more tired often and use less bigger jutsu, conveniently raising the importance of the new characters lol.


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## aiyanah (Jul 23, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> I don't see why it would require Kurama. I don't really get what you're trying to say


Because there are two ways to go six paths, either get   by hagoromo, or get all the bijuu's chakra.
The working assumption is that the hago boost is one time only, the bijuu are always around though and Naruto as the meeting point for them would at the least be able to request them for a chakra sniff.
But then there's a counter assumption that he's always had access to spsm in boruto and neither another  by hago nor requesting chakra from the bijuu is required at this point.

I frankly believe no one knows what's going on with his transformations.


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## Arles Celes (Jul 23, 2021)

Raiden said:


> Hard to say but I guess this was done on purpose to take Kurama Mode and the other modes off the table. It doesn't make sense to me since the villians could believably fight those modes.
> 
> I guess we'll see him get more tired often and use less bigger jutsu, conveniently raising the importance of the new characters lol.


Personally I think it was to prevent power inflation and to make villains less powerful that Isshiki having a real shot at fate bros.

Code for example is now weaker than Jigen and its unknown when he will have his limter removed. If that does not happen soon then his current power level will have to remain a real threat which likely wouldn't be the case if both fate bros were at their best and fought him together.

Also to make Boruto and Kawaki surpassing fate bros more believable perhaps...

If Naruto gets owned he will have an excuse for his poor perfomance as "not being at his best".


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## Raiken (Jul 23, 2021)

Imo Adult Naruto w/ Kurama was bottom of the barrel God Tier already. Stronger than DRSM Madara but weaker than Juubito.

So now he Is 100% NOT God Tier.

If he's still got SPSM, he'll probably be around 1RSM Madara level.

If It's just SM left, he'll be comparable to Base Hashirama, probably weaker. Can't imagine Adult SM Naruto beating BM Naruto.

I don't subscribe to the God Tier Base Naruto Fan-Fiction.


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## Raiden (Jul 23, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Imo Adult Naruto w/ Kurama was bottom of the barrel God Tier already. Stronger than DRSM Madara but weaker than Juubito.
> 
> So now he Is 100% NOT God Tier.
> 
> ...



Yaeh I was wondering about this. Any thoughts? @Rai Do you think he has SPSM still?

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## PFM18 (Jul 23, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Imo Adult Naruto w/ Kurama was bottom of the barrel God Tier already. Stronger than DRSM Madara but weaker than Juubito.


LMAO Hokage Naruto weaker than Juubito?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Raiken (Jul 23, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> LMAO Hokage Naruto weaker than Juubito?


"LMAO"? Chill out.  

Yes he is, he doesn't have Hagaromo's Chakra Post-Kaguya.

I already know you think he does. So I'm just going to - agree to disagree this - before it even starts.


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## PFM18 (Jul 23, 2021)

aiyanah said:


> The working assumption is that the hago boost is one time only,


Why would anyone think that the Hagoromo boost was a one-time thing? Was Sasuke's Rinnegan a one time thing? He literally gave them his Chakra for being reincarnates, they permanently have this reincarnate chakra. If it were a one time thing, Sasuke and Naruto wouldn't have been able to pull off their insane final battle, being as how that would be after that fight and after the "one time thing". And well, there's literally no reason to think it was temporary.


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## PFM18 (Jul 23, 2021)

Raiken said:


> I already know you think he does. So I'm just going to - agree to disagree this - before it even starts.


Let's say that for some reason the Hagoromo chakra was temporary. He still has the full-power of Kurama instead of half of his power. This should make him stronger than Juubito if he's got 100% Power KCM2 and Sage Mode.(sounds like you don't think he has SPSM)


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## Raiken (Jul 23, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> Let's say that for some reason the Hagoromo chakra was temporary.


Okidoke.


PFM18 said:


> He still has the full-power of Kurama instead of half of his power. This should make him stronger than Juubito if he's got 100% Power KCM2 and Sage Mode.


That's fair enough, if you think a 100% KCM2+SM Naruto would be stronger than Juubito, fair enough. But I personally disagree, I think a 100% KCM2+SM Naruto would only be stronger than SM Hashirama, and would possibly consider him weaker than 1RSM Madara, though not by much.

But yeah, Adult Naruto has more than just 100% KCM2+SM he has a 100% KCM2+SPSM.


PFM18 said:


> (sounds like you don't think he has SPSM)


I think he does still have SPSM as an Adult, but that it's separate from 'Hagaromo's Gifted Chakra', which was the Six Paths Power of Yin & Yang(The Seals).
SPSM comes from the 9-Bijuu's Chakra's - Which is why he still has that as an Adult.


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## aiyanah (Jul 23, 2021)

PFM18 said:


> Why would anyone think that the Hagoromo boost was a one-time thing? Was Sasuke's Rinnegan a one time thing? He literally gave them his Chakra for being reincarnates, they permanently have this reincarnate chakra. If it were a one time thing, Sasuke and Naruto wouldn't have been able to pull off their insane final battle, being as how that would be after that fight and after the "one time thing". And well, there's literally no reason to think it was temporary.


rinnegan is different because once manifested it's permanent. otherwise madara's don't get to see the world and instead end in his cave.
plus i'm pretty sure sasuke got his rinnegan on account of being near death and it has nothing to do with hago.
either way all sources agree naruto can still use spsm, i have a theory that relies on him still having access to a truth seeking orb, you should check it you.


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