# Law vs Marco



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Location: Greenbit
Restrictions: none

Both have similar feats against admirals, both will alliance themselves with SH soon enough, how will it turn out?

my bet is Phoenix dissection, Law wins with extreme diff.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco low diffs


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 17, 2016)

If marco is stronger than Doflamingo, then low diff win...


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Marco low diffs



maybe pre TS Law.
if Marco low diffs current Law, Kizaru low diffs Fujitora.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> If marco is stronger than Doflamingo, then low diff win...



but he's not.
plus Doffy can't low diff fresh Law.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Pre-TS Law would be lucky in surviving a fight against Dellinger 

Law is still a fart against top tiers 1 vs 1


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## Extravlad (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco is far stronger than Doflamingo.

Marco low diff based on feats.



> Both have similar feats against admirals,


No they really don't.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Not quite far stronger than Doffy but he smashes Law


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Pre-TS Law would be lucky in surviving a fight against Dellinger
> 
> Law is still a fart against top tiers 1 vs 1



pre TS Law = pre TS Luffy, pre TS Luffy survived a Sengoku Buddha punch.

but yes, pre TS Law would be somewhere near Dellinger tier, both gets low diffed by Marco.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Dellinger got no diffed by Hakuba omg

Marco would sneeze and he dies


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Extravlad said:


> Marco is far stronger than Doflamingo.



no he's not, he's same tier but just above Jozu before losing an arm, both below Doffy.




> No they really don't.



yeah Law might have slight better feats, considering Marco lost instantly when a VA stepped in, while Law lasted quite a while with Doffy there.


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## Richard Lionheart (Mar 17, 2016)

Yeah, Marco cuts his head off. It's like putting Sanji against G4 Luffy.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Law gets a taloon through his skull I agree


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Dellinger got no diffed by Hakuba omg
> 
> Marco would sneeze and he dies



Dellinger got no diffed by Hakuba while off guard.

fair fight, Marco ain't beating Dellinger any easier than Hakuba can.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Legendary Pervert said:


> Yeah, Marco cuts his head off. It's like putting Sanji against G4 Luffy.



makes no sense, Law > Sanji, G4 Luffy > Marco.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Pre-TS can't even canonically be defined as strong as a Pacifista

Which means Marco goes to the toilet and what comes out from his ass destroys Law


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## Richard Lionheart (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> fair fight, Marco ain't beating Dellinger any easier than Hakuba can.







GucciBandana said:


> makes no sense, Law > Sanji, G4 Luffy > Marco.


No, Marco is stronger than G4 Luffy. He will just outlast him.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Dellinger would get negged by Law and sadly Law would get low-diffed by Marco. Well upper end of low-diff, lower end of mid-diff at best. It's a bad match up.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2016)

Low difficulty is the best Law can hope for against Marco.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Pre-TS can't even canonically be defined as strong as a Pacifista
> 
> Which means Marco goes to the toilet and what comes out from his ass destroys Law



and Dellinger is?

Pacifistas are about as strong as WB's NW Pirate alliance during MF war, while Squardo, being 1 of the stronger NW Pirate alliance was able to retaliate fairly well against Marco's sneak attack. 

so how did you get that last part?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Luffy can oneshot one easily Marco even more


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Legendary Pervert said:


> No, Marco is stronger than G4 Luffy. He will just outlast him.



G4 Luffy with current time limit, maybe, but if it's Luffy vs Marco I don't see a reason for Luffy going G4 until he sees Marco's regen reaching its limit.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

G4 Luffy > Marco >>>>>>>>>> G2 Luffy


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## Richard Lionheart (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> and Dellinger is?
> 
> Pacifistas are about as strong as WB's NW Pirate alliance during MF war, while Squardo, being 1 of the stronger NW Pirate alliance was able to retaliate fairly well against Marco's sneak attack.
> 
> so how did you get that last part?



No one cares for Dellinger, man. Fact is that here is nothing to debate. Law loses this fight.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Luffy can oneshot one easily Marco even more



Luffy can, doesn't mean Marco can, Marco can't even one shot the NW Pirates during MF with a sneak attack.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

G2 Luffy can one shot a Pacifista but Marco can't?

Does that really make sense to you?


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## Canute87 (Mar 17, 2016)

Laws powers might prove to be.....overwhelming


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Pre-skip M3 > Marco?


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## Canute87 (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> G2 Luffy can one shot a Pacifista but Marco can't?
> 
> Does that really make sense to you?



Sanji and also break a pacifista neck and his legs got cracked by Vergo who's physically inferior to Marco.



I don't think she thought it through.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

The bullshit had to come after yesterday's chapter...

It was inevitable


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> G4 Luffy > Marco >>>>>>>>>> G2 Luffy



G4 Luffy > Marco >>>>>>>>>>>> G2 pre TS Luffy.

current G2 Luffy would do fairly well against Marco.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

G2 Luffy attacks > Akainu, Kizaru and Garp attacks? Cause that's what Marco is capable of taking.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

G2 EoS Luffy beats Marco


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Pre-skip M3 > Marco?



post skip M3 = Marco, Sanji lacks feats so replace him with Law.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Legendary Pervert said:


> No one cares for Dellinger, man. Fact is that here is nothing to debate. Law loses this fight.



I'm not the one who brought up Dellinger.

Law might lose this fight but def not by much, Law can fight Fujitora and Doffy at the same time for quite a while.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Sanji can already fight Kizaru on par but I see him winning


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> post skip M3 = Marco, Sanji lacks feats so replace him with Law.


Postskip M3 = Marco but Law can fight on par with Marco? 

Son

C'mon


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

LucciBandana is conquering our hearts


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> I'm not the one who brought up Dellinger.
> 
> Law might lose this fight but def not by much, Law can fight Fujitora and Doffy at the same time for quite a while.



You mean when they had his ass flying through the forest on Greenbit? That's more like scrounging for your life than fighting. 

Maybe your memory is fuzzy but it mostly just Doflamingo kicking Law's ass around Greenbit while Fuji watched.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> G2 Luffy can one shot a Pacifista but Marco can't?
> 
> Does that really make sense to you?



Marco can't one shot a NW Pirate captain with a sneak attack but can one shot a Pacifista who the NW pirate had trouble with?

Does that really make sense to you?

there's no direct comparison between a current G2 Luffy and Marco's physical capability, but there is between NW Pirates and Pacifistas, then NW Pirates and Marco.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> You mean when they had his ass flying through the forest on Greenbit? That's more like scrounging for your life than fighting.
> 
> Maybe your memory is fuzzy but it mostly just Doflamingo kicking Law's ass around Greenbit while Fuji watched.



We never even saw Doflamingo hit Law with a single attack on Greenbit. It was all off-paneled. Unless you're referring to their 1v1 on the bridge.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> We never even saw Doflamingo hit Law with a single attack on Greenbit. Unless you're referring to their 1v1 on the bridge.


No I'm talking about when Law went flying over a small hill into a forest looking banged up with Doflamingo following right behind him.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco can't one shot a NW Pirate captain with a sneak attack but can one shot a Pacifista who the NW pirate had trouble with?
> 
> Does that really make sense to you?
> 
> there's no direct comparison between a current G2 Luffy and Marco's physical capability, but there is between NW Pirates and Pacifistas, then NW Pirates and Marco.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco can't one shot a NW Pirate captain with a sneak attack but can one shot a Pacifista who the NW pirate had trouble with?
> 
> Does that really make sense to you?
> 
> there's no direct comparison between a current G2 Luffy and Marco's physical capability, but there is between NW Pirates and Pacifistas, then NW Pirates and Marco.


Whitebeard can't one shot fodder marines. 

Kizaru can't one shot preskip Luffy. 

I don't know if you actually read One Piece or not but fodder tends to do things that fodder typically shouldn't be able to do.

You don't even NEED to have Luffy tier physical strength (Marco's is above Luffy's anyway). Fucking Zoro and Sanji, two characters below Marco one shotted a Pacifista just fine.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Shit you could make case for Franky being able to one shot a Pacifista.

Yonkou commanders? Nope.


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## Pocalypse (Mar 17, 2016)

Well shit, didn't take long for the Marco dehype to start


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Canute87 said:


> Sanji and also break a pacifista neck and his legs got cracked by Vergo who's physically inferior to Marco.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think she thought it through.



Vergo is physically inferior to Marco?
also Sanji's body was wore out by Nami by the time he exchanged Kick's with Vergo, plus Vergo's kick was prob a mixture of Tekkai and Haki, very powerful.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Vergo >>>> Akainu 

Doge with it


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> G2 Luffy attacks > Akainu, Kizaru and Garp attacks? Cause that's what Marco is capable of taking.



no, Marco can tank G2 Luffy's attacks due to DF power, and G2 Luffy attacks < Akainu, Kizaru and Garp, however might affect Marco in a better way than Kizaru's laser did since it's Haki embedded.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

I have already the Flu guys 

This thread is wasting me


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## Kaiser (Mar 17, 2016)

Nothing changed. Marco still low-mid diff at best. Although we don't know the exact circumstances around the battle, we know that the world considered that defeating Marco and the remnants was an accomplishment great enough to consider Blackbeard pirates led by Teach as a yonko. That means that Marco is the next best thing to the yonko and beating him alone is proof that you have yonko power(not even counting the fact that they were weakened). Law isn't even close to that yet when he was mid diffed by Doflamingo


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Sanji can already fight Kizaru on par but I see him winning



Sanji barely has feats post time skip, based on what he has, he gets low diffed by Kizaru.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Nah Sanji may murder him


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Postskip M3 = Marco but Law can fight on par with Marco?
> 
> Son
> 
> C'mon



M3? Monster Trio? Luffy Zoro Sanji? in this case Luffy Law Sanji?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

There is no M3

Sanji too weak


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> No I'm talking about when Law went flying over a small hill into a forest looking banged up with Doflamingo following right behind him.



This?


Dude got grazed by a meteor. I don't think we ever see him get hit on Greenbit on panel besides the page above.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

There's not even any circumstances to understand. 

Teach beat Marco. His pirates beat their pirates.

This doesn't deminish Marco's strength, this lets you know that Teach is STRONG AS FUCK.

Teach has the strongest logia and the strongest paramecia. He was already beating WB commanders, taking quakes to the skull and Buddha palms and this was all preskip.

The sky is the limit for this guy.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> This?
> 
> 
> Dude got grazed by a meteor. I don't think we ever see him get hit on Greenbit on panel besides the page above.



Does it matter?

Is Law admiral level or Doflamingo level?

No.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Teach ' s dura is god tier


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> You mean when they had his ass flying through the forest on Greenbit? That's more like scrounging for your life than fighting.
> 
> Maybe your memory is fuzzy but it mostly just Doflamingo kicking Law's ass around Greenbit while Fuji watched.



Fuji sent the meteor, Fuji pinned him down, and Doffy was chasing him down, if I remember right there were string marks on the background as well, clearly both attacked him, most are off panel thou.

Also Law altered Fuji's attack to destroy his ship once.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Look at the panel the other user posted and tell me that he was hanging with them.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Law got crushed by Fuji ' s gravity like a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Whitebeard can't one shot fodder marines.
> 
> Kizaru can't one shot preskip Luffy.
> 
> ...



Zoro and Sanji one shotted the Pacifista together, there's hasn't been a character with below Luffy tier physical strength, one shotting a Pacifista individually, Pacifista during MF were pretty durable to the NW pirates, took some team effort to take one down.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

So.

You're telling me. 

Zoro can't one shot a Pacifista? Can a Pacifista tank Zoro's Thousand Worlds despite the fact that Zoro cleaved one cleanly in half?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Dellinger low diffs a Pacifista mid at most

Zoro farts and Carrot explodes ehmmm a Pacifista


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> Is Law admiral level or Doflamingo level?
> 
> No.


Does anything matter? Law being able to take getting hit with a meteor, react to and slice a meteor in half, and send a meteor back with Takt are all good feats for a high-tier.



Finalbeta said:


> Law got crushed by Fuji ' s gravity like a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)



That makes Zoro a ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) too.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Kaiser said:


> Nothing changed. Marco still low-mid diff at best. Although we don't know the exact circumstances around the battle, we know that the world considered that defeating Marco and the remnants was an accomplishment great enough to consider Blackbeard pirates led by Teach as a yonko. That means that Marco is the next best thing to the yonko and beating him alone is proof that you have yonko power(not even counting the fact that they were weakened). Law isn't even close to that yet when he was mid diffed by Doflamingo



nothing has changed, I never thought Marco was that strong to begin with, in fact EOS Hawkins will be a better tank than Marco ever was.
guys like Inu and Neko, Jack all Marco tier easily, WB Pirates had 3 members around that tier, an overwhelming victory would put Teach on Yonko status naturally.
keep in mind pre time skip Teach was running from Akainu as a crew, and pre Gura Teach blitzed by Magellan, took damage from Luffy. Teach's physical stats aren't very high, other than his durability.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Zolo was able to counter the gravity


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Does anything matter? Law being able to take getting hit with a meteor, react to and slice a meteor in half, and send a meteor back with Takt are all good feats for a high-tier.


He wasn't hit by the meteor he was blasted away by the explosion it caused.

And yes Law's feats are good for someone on his level, but that's the problem. His level isn't Marco's level.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Zolo was able to counter the gravity



So was Law...


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> Is Law admiral level or Doflamingo level?
> 
> No.



Admiral > Doffy but not by much, Doffy is one of the strongest characters below an Admiral.
Doffy > Law, but a fresh Law prob gonna give Doffy high diff.
Marco is somewhere between Law and Doffy, prob closer to Law, but Law's cuts can't be regenerated through Marco's DF power, giving Law an edge.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> He wasn't hit by the meteor he was blasted away by it.
> 
> And yes Law's feats are good for someone on his level, but that's the problem. His level isn't Marco's level.



Fair enough.

I completely agree. Marco would kick his ass. OP is the first person I've ever seen say Law would stand a chance of winning against the Phoenix. Marco is probably the only other guy besides Doffy who would be able to counter Gamma Knife for instance. So his strongest attack would be practically useless, not that he'd ever be able to land it anyway.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

Doflamingo hasn't got shit on an admiral.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> So.
> 
> You're telling me.
> 
> Zoro can't one shot a Pacifista? Can a Pacifista tank Zoro's Thousand Worlds despite the fact that Zoro cleaved one cleanly in half?



Zoro can, if he's using one of his more serious attacks.
Zoro has way more feats in term of DC than Marco thou, Zoro can doesn't mean Marco can.


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## Extravlad (Mar 17, 2016)

Admirals >> Doflamingo
Doflamingo > Law.

Admirals > Marco > Jozu > Vista > Doflamingo > Law

Here you go.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Zoro can, if he's using one of his more serious attacks.
> Zoro has way more feats in term of DC than Marco thou, Zoro can doesn't mean Marco can.



Zoro has to use one of his stronger attacks to one shot a Pacifista even though he used one of his weaker attacks to one shot a Pacifista.

Can you into logic?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> So was Law...



Only after Issho got distracted


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Doflamingo hasn't got shit on an admiral.



restricted Jozu's movements with 1 hand casually, breaking out Kuzan's ice, something Jozu couldn't, then beat Law, who did fairly well against an Admiral himself, tanked a few G4 hits, keep in mind G4 Luffy shook off parasite, a technique restricted Jozu's movements easily, with ease. Doffy's right below the Admirals.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Zoro could cut a Pacifista like butter with a no named slash


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> Zoro has to use one of his stronger attacks to one shot a Pacifista even though he used one of his weaker attacks to one shot a Pacifista.
> 
> Can you into logic?



stronger attacks relative to the one he used on a Pacifista.
Zoro one shotted a Pacifista together with Sanji, that's not the same as one shotting.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Jack > Marco > Mingo > Joz > Vista > Law


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## Extravlad (Mar 17, 2016)

> breaking out Kuzan's ice, something Jozu couldn't,


This is literally the worst fucking argument ever and I don't know why people keep bringing up that shit.

It's like saying Luffy took Garp's punch on his head at Water 7 while Prime Chinjao was K.O'd by it in that flashback therefore Water 7 Luffy > Preskip Chinjao.

Kuzan didn't use the same attack, wasn't in the same mindset and didn't have the same goals.


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## Imagine (Mar 17, 2016)

This guy is something else I must say.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Doffy can give an admiral mid diff 
Marco some degree of high
BB beats many ones


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Extravlad said:


> Admirals >> Doflamingo
> Doflamingo > Law.
> 
> Admirals > Marco > Jozu > Vista > Doflamingo > Law
> ...




Admirals > Doffy > Marco = Jozu = Law > Vista

Vista had trouble with a Giant VA


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## Yuki (Mar 17, 2016)

So much Marco underestimation...

Marco can give high dif to current admirals and mid dif to the strongest current character. 

His defeat marked the beginning of a fking yonko ffs...

Is Luffy a yonko now he's beat DD? NO!

Omfg...


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## Kaiser (Mar 17, 2016)

Imagine said:


> There's not even any circumstances to understand.
> 
> Teach beat Marco. His pirates beat their pirates.
> 
> ...


It's needed because we don't know if Marco lost his individual fight or if it's the war that he lost with his forces ending up overwhelmed forcing him to retreat. Certain things need to be clarified and i heavily doubt Marco individually lost because if he did, Teach who looks for rare and powerful devil fruits should have taken his devil fruit, yet Marco managed to escape alive, suggesting he was never put in a defeated condition, just that he was forced to escape with the survivors


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## Extravlad (Mar 17, 2016)

> Admirals > Doffy > Marco = Jozu = Law > Vista


Lmao Doffy is a run away coward with no feats vs Admirals and got spanked like a child by G4 Luffy.
Vista stalemated fucking Dracule Mihawk, the only character alive that's 100% confirmed stronger than a Yonko.

Stalemating Mihawk >>>>>>>>>> anything Law + Doffy have done.


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## Bernkastel (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco low diffs Law.

He is far stronger than DD who mid diffs Law.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> So much Marco underestimation...
> 
> Marco can give high dif to current admirals and mid dif to the strongest current character.
> 
> ...



He is your lover after all no


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Only after Issho got distracted



He was literally sitting a foot away, staring (even though he can't see per se) directly at him.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Good point 

Law = Zoro


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Extravlad said:


> This is literally the worst fucking argument ever and I don't know why people keep bringing up that shit.
> 
> It's like saying Luffy took Garp's punch on his head at Water 7 while Prime Chinjao was K.O'd by it in that flashback therefore Water 7 Luffy > Preskip Chinjao.
> 
> Kuzan didn't use the same attack, wasn't in the same mindset and didn't have the same goals.



you are making it sounds like Doffy is Kuzan's kids.
Doffy is 1 of 2 characters who broke out of Kuzan's ice on panel so far, the other being WB, impressive feat regardless. and even without it, Doffy has many more that puts him near Admiral tier.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Mera Sabo > Doffy > Base Sabo = Vista


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Extravlad said:


> Lmao Doffy is a run away coward with no feats vs Admirals and got spanked like a child by G4 Luffy.
> Vista stalemated fucking Dracule Mihawk, the only character alive that's 100% confirmed stronger than a Yonko.
> 
> Stalemating Mihawk >>>>>>>>>> anything Law + Doffy have done.



yeah like Buffalo stalemating Luffy right? or in your words Luffy punching Garp off the bridge during MF, what does that make Luffy?

clearly Mihawk "wasn't in the same mindset and didn't have the same goals."

Vista still had trouble with a giant VA, stalemating Mihawk doesn't make him any closer to Mihawk than Carrot to Zoro.

and Mihawk confirmed stronger than Yonko? due to "strongest swords man" title?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

I agree

Vista is fodder to Mihawk


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> So much Marco underestimation...
> 
> Marco can give high dif to current admirals and mid dif to the strongest current character.
> 
> ...



Marco would get mid diffed by any pre TS admirals, will end up like the Law vs Doffy on the bridge, Marco really struggles to damage an Admiral.

Luffy defeated Doffy with an alliance, and didn't have as much territories under his name to be considered one, while BB did, also an "overwhelming" victory helps a lot.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Admirals are closer to Yonko than Doffy


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Bernkastel said:


> Marco low diffs Law.
> 
> He is far stronger than DD who mid diffs Law.



Marco is def not far stronger than DD, and DD can't mid diff a fresh Law.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco would high (high) diff Doffy


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> I agree
> 
> Vista is fodder to Mihawk



sometimes I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not.

I don't think Vista is fodder, but he gives a serious Mihawk mid diff at best.



Finalbeta said:


> Admirals are closer to Yonko than Doffy



Admirals pretty much equal to the current Yonko, both above Doffy.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Vista pushes Mihawk from low to mid difficulty 

I'm not sarcastic in these last posts


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Marco would high (high) diff Doffy



I think Doffy high diffs Marco, parasite might play a key factor.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco > Doffy > Jozu imo

Jack might be stronger than Marco assuming the Minks are OP


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Marco > Doffy > Jozu imo
> 
> Jack might be stronger than Marco assuming the Minks are OP



there isn't much of a difference between Marco and Jozu before he lost his arm.

Minks overrated, off panels assuming Sicilian had trouble with Sheepshead, while Sanji + Brook didn't have much trouble, I doubt anybody from Minks tribe are M3 tier other than the Dukes and maybe Pekoms.
Jack is somewhere between Doffy and Marco to me, Inu and Neko are right there too.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

We will find it out soon


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## Yuki (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco would get mid diffed by any pre TS admirals, will end up like the Law vs Doffy on the bridge, Marco really struggles to damage an Admiral.
> 
> Luffy defeated Doffy with an alliance, and didn't have as much territories under his name to be considered one, while BB did, also an "overwhelming" victory helps a lot.



That does not mean shit in the long run.

BB was not considered anything until he beat Marco.

Marco is a big fking deal.

I'm so done with this stupid thread and arguments. 

Marco stomps Law, end of.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Juvia why do you use SpiRo ' s emotions?


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 17, 2016)

wtf is this thread


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> We will find it out soon



I don't see Jack holding Luffy, Law and Neko's crew here for too long, so it's either gonna be a all out brawl, with Luffy's alliance winning quickly, or Zoro stays with Inu and his minks to deal with Jack and his crew.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

If Oda wants he will


----------



## Bernkastel (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco is def not far stronger than DD, and DD can't mid diff a fresh Law.



Their feats and portrayal say otherwise.

One runs away from one like a little coward after getting casually frozen while the other goes toe to toe with all 3 admirals.

As for Law yes he get mid diffed feat wise.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> That does not mean shit in the long run.
> 
> BB was not considered anything until he beat Marco.
> 
> ...



BB was a big deal right after MF, the Gorosei said he was in the lead of taking WB's Yonko position, he was already getting there.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco has not even G4 firepower 

He won't take the Flamingo down easily


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> If Oda wants he will



but it's the year of Sanji, there can't be a long battle before Luffy heads there, if the battle is long, it's prob gonna happen with Sanji's story line simultaneously, which means Luffy won't be there anymore.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

At the same time Straw Hats need an epic fight because they are not ready for Yonko yet


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Bernkastel said:


> Their feats and portrayal say otherwise.
> 
> One runs away from one like a little coward after getting casually frozen while the other goes toe to toe with all 3 admirals.
> 
> As for Law yes he get mid diffed feat wise.



Doffy clearly ignored Kuzan's warning and continue to attack Smoker, then broke out without much trouble.

Marco going toe to toe with all 3 admirals is about as credible Carrot going toe to toe with Zoro.

going by the "runs away" logic, it should be Doffy gets mid diffed by Law, since Law battled both an Admiral and Doffy himself, did fairly well, then escape, every bit as impressive as anything Marco did.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Doffy is downplayed on here


----------



## Yuki (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco going toe to toe with all 3 admirals is about as credible Carrot going toe to toe with Zoro..



Two words.

Ignore Listed.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco can give high (high) diff to Kizaru


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> At the same time Straw Hats need an epic fight because they are not ready for Yonko yet



they are not but they are pretty close, I don't think Doffy is much under an admiral or a Yonko, if Luffy can extend G4 time limit I see him beating a Yonko with some assistance(like how Law helped him with Doffy), and color of plot Haki embedded punch.

his alliance will include M3, Law, Marco Jozu(possibly) Vista(possibly), Inu, Neko, and maybe some of SH grand fleet, some Wano Samurais, I think that's an army strong enough to take down a Yonko, just not sure how strong is the Shogun of Wano.


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## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

I'm still not sure whether this is a Law spite thread or not.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

If it's Kaido they can't beat him with only these allies

Big Mom most likely


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Marco can give high (high) diff to Kizaru



don't see it, Marco struggles to damage Kizaru, this battle will take a while but Kizaru will put Marco down nearly unscratched, plus Marco has avoided slashing attacks on 2 occasions, Kizaru taking out his light saber might end it a bit quicker. Marco's regen reaches its limit near the end of MF war, Kizaru by power scaling, has similar stamina as Sakazuki and Kuzan.

Marco will give Kizaru the highest diff among all 3 pre TS Admirals thou.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2016)

1 Admiral and 10-15 or so Vice Admirals would have suffered the same fate. Teach is just underrated, and I'd still like to see the proof that Marco got individually humiliated. That's right; it never happened. Additionally, this battle occurred one year after the statement from Gorousei, which means Teach had time to train with his new powers. Marco is certainly strong enough on his own to deem Teach one of the emperors from the latter's victory. That means Marco is the stepping stone to that level on individual status. "Overwhelming defeat" could indicate that the crew is broken apart and forced to go into hiding, while I also suspect many casualties for Whitebeard Pirates. The battle was ferocious and not a steamroll, though Blackbeard Pirates desicively won and ascended to Yonkou. People make a big deal out of something inevitable. Anything short of decisive victory would make Teach look like garbage, and it'll make Teach look even worse when we find out that Marco managed to escape with his phoenix fruit.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Kizaru can't put down Marco easily, it will take an hour, possibly hours

Marco has insane regeneration and will eventually damage Kizaru quite a bit in the process


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> If it's Kaido they can't beat him with only these allies
> 
> Big Mom most likely



Kaido and Big Mom are pretty much the same tier with Kaido a bit higher, plus one of Kaido's right hand men along with his large fleet will be put down before Wano arc, also Drake might live up to his family name and be a X factor here, if it's Kaido's Beast Pirates alone I think they can do it, just not sure how the Shogun of Wano will play out.

Drake is prob the strongest Kaido commander under the 3 calamities, if he's not 1 himself, and Luffy's alliance will have at least 8 members of his tier, possibly more.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Kaido is the strongest being in OP-verse for now

Oda confirmed it


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Kizaru can't put down Marco easily, it will take an hour, possibly hours
> 
> Marco has insane regeneration and will eventually damage Kizaru quite a bit in the process



time isn't the only factor deciding the level of difficulty, yes it will take a while, that's Marco's DF strength, but it's Kizaru 10/10, he bears almost no risk in this battle, like Garp + Sengoku vs Shiki took 3 days, but I wouldn't say they had much difficulty with Shiki.

Marco prob will damage Kizaru, but I doubt it will be "quite a bit", I've never seen Kizaru getting damaged other than that scratch on his face against Rayleigh, while distracted.


----------



## Lord Stark (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> no he's not, he's same tier but just above Jozu before losing an arm, both below Doffy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You think Marco is weaker than Doffy


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> time isn't the only factor deciding the level of difficulty, yes it will take a while, that's Marco's DF strength, but it's Kizaru 10/10, he bears almost no risk in this battle, like Garp + Sengoku vs Shiki took 3 days, but I wouldn't say they had much difficulty with Shiki.
> 
> Marco prob will damage Kizaru, but I doubt it will be "quite a bit", I've never seen Kizaru getting damaged other than that scratch on his face against Rayleigh, while distracted.



Quite a bit means nothing since Kizaru > Akainu


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 17, 2016)

@GucciBandana 
Marco's regeneration wasn't exhausted at the end of Marineford. Take your bullshit fanfiction and trolling to YouTube. All we know is that his regeneration has some limit from Oda's words. Anything beyond that is speculation.


----------



## Pocalypse (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> yeah Law might have slight better feats, considering Marco lost instantly when a VA stepped in, while Law lasted quite a while with Doffy there.



Errr, the VA used seastone cuffs which is a kryptonite to all DF users


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> 1 Admiral and 10-15 or so Vice Admirals would have suffered the same fate. Teach is just underrated, and I'd still like to see the proof that Marco got individually humiliated. That's right; it never happened. Additionally, this battle occurred one year after the statement from Gorousei, which means Teach had time to train with his new powers. Marco is certainly strong enough on his own to deem Teach one of the emperors from the latter's victory. That means Marco is the stepping stone to that level on individual status. "Overwhelming defeat" could indicate that the crew is broken apart and forced to go into hiding, while I also suspect many casualties for Whitebeard Pirates. The battle was ferocious and not a steamroll, though Blackbeard Pirates desicively won and ascended to Yonkou. People make a big deal out of something inevitable. Anything short of decisive victory would make Teach look like garbage, and it'll make Teach look even worse when we find out that Marco managed to escape with his phoenix fruit.



Gura Teach pre TS ran as soon as they saw Akainu on board, there's no way Akainu + 10-15 VA would suffer an "overwhelming" defeat. 

just defeating Marco isn't enough to deem Teach a Yonko, if it's a tough victory, Yonko will just go down from 4 to 3, becoming Sanko, it's the overwhelming victory combined with large amount of land BB already acquired making him a Yonko, plus defeating Marco also granted him almost all of WB's territories, making him a replacement of WB's Yonko status.
to me, the decisive fight of this battle is Teach vs Marco, but being "overwhelmed" the WB pirates prob lost many other major fights too.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco's fight happened many months after they saw Saka


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> @GucciBandana
> Marco's regeneration wasn't exhausted at the end of Marineford. Take your bullshit fanfiction and trolling to YouTube. All we know is that his regeneration has some limit from Oda's words. Anything beyond that is speculation.



Marco had bandages all over him during WB and Ace's funeral, indicating his regen wasn't enough to heal those wounds, therefore approaching limits.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco can last at least an hour against a Marine Admiral


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Pocalypse said:


> Errr, the VA used seastone cuffs which is a kryptonite to all DF users



getting blindsided by a VA and held there with Spider hands are the important feat you should look at.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Kaido is the strongest being in OP-verse for now
> 
> Oda confirmed it



doesn't make him tiers above other Yonko, also he's "viewed" as the strongest creature, which means the OP verse sees him as the strongest creature, doesn't mean it's confirmed, Buggy is also viewed as a very stronger individual but he's not, Kaido is indeed very strong but might be over hyped.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Lord Stark said:


> You think Marco is weaker than Doffy



yeah I do, I think Marco is below Doffy and near Law.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Kaido can eat people alive on Law's caliber


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Quite a bit means nothing since Kizaru > Akainu



I'm not sure the full extend of Kizaru's strength, he might be slightly above Akainu but I usually insert him right in between Akainu and Aokiji


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Kizaru is a mystery


----------



## Pocalypse (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> getting blindsided by a VA and held there with Spider hands are the important feat you should look at.



Being blindsided isn't detrimental to Marco, anyone can be blindsided, that's the whole point. Easy to hold him when you cuff someone with seastone considering it nullifies your DF abilities, but what's your point? Are you saying a VA is stronger than Marco now? That'd be even more pathetic than your Marco downplay in this thread.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Marco's fight happened many months after they saw Saka



yes but that's the closest BB on panel portray we've got.



Finalbeta said:


> Marco can last at least an hour against a Marine Admiral



I think he can, but any Marine Admiral will win 10/10, with Aokiji and Fujitora having the lowest difficulty on average, since both of them are able to restrain Marco effectively under right circumstances. Kizaru having the highest difficulty on average since he has to damage him till his regen runs out and his damage dealing is below Akainu.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Kaido can eat people alive on Law's caliber



depends on how he does against Kidd's alliance.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Kaido has mid diffed them at worst if they have fought 

We will see


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## monkey d ace (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco mid diff


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Pocalypse said:


> Being blindsided isn't detrimental to Marco, anyone can be blindsided, that's the whole point. Easy to hold him when you cuff someone with seastone considering it nullifies your DF abilities, but what's your point? Are you saying a VA is stronger than Marco now? That'd be even more pathetic than your Marco downplay in this thread.



no Marco > any current VA.
my point is, to be able to effectively blind side somebody you need to be relatively close to that individual in term of stats, you don't see an Admiral getting blind sided by a lower tier WB commander or NW alliance captain, but Marco and Jozu both can blind side Aokiji, while VA can blind side Marco.

Admiral > Marco > VA, the gap between Marco and a high tier VA isn't as larger than the gap between Marco and an Admiral, with the right circumstances a high tier VA can give somebody Marco's tier trouble, like Vergo vs Law.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Garp >>> Marco


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Garp >>> Marco



Garp retired.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

I know it had to be said


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

The friend punched Marco to another dimension


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> The friend punched Marco to another dimension



and I think MF Garp is already out of his prime and isn't the strongest Marine at that moment.


----------



## Pocalypse (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> no Marco > any current VA.
> my point is, to be able to effectively blind side somebody you need to be relatively close to that individual in term of stats



Lol no you don't. Blindside is a surprise attack, Marco was focused on Whitebeard and he wouldn't expect some mook to come in and cuff him up, it doesn't matter who it was, a blindside is a blindside, nothing to do with stats.


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## Raiden34 (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> no Marco > any current VA.
> my point is, to be able to effectively blind side somebody you need to be relatively close to that individual in term of stats, you don't see an Admiral getting blind sided by a lower tier WB commander or NW alliance captain, but Marco and Jozu both can blind side Aokiji, while VA can blind side Marco.
> 
> Admiral > Marco > VA, the gap between Marco and a high tier VA isn't as larger than the gap between Marco and an Admiral, with the right circumstances a high tier VA can give somebody Marco's tier trouble, like Vergo vs Law.



Wtf squardo blind sided Wb..... Onigumo only blind sided Marco when Kizaru back shot him....


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2016)

The man who forced Kizaru to block his kick would easily tear up law.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Pocalypse said:


> Lol no you don't. Blindside is a surprise attack, Marco was focused on Whitebeard and he wouldn't expect some mook to come in and cuff him up, it doesn't matter who it was, a blindside is a blindside, nothing to do with stats.



yes you do, there's a thing called Observation Haki in OP, without good stats a blindside attack won't work.
and Marco is on the battle field, of course he would expect attacks of different sort, a Marine fodder ain't blind siding Marco but a VA will.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Erkan12 said:


> Wtf squardo blind sided Wb..... Onigumo only blind sided Marco when Kizaru back shot him....



Squardo is an ally to WB, that's not a battle field blind side.

Marco was pretty much already healed by the time Onigumo blind sided him.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 17, 2016)

Ava said:


> The man who forced Kizaru to block his kick would easily tear up law.



and Law wrecked Fujitora's ship.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 17, 2016)

We're comparing a ship to an Admiral's body?

People have been destroying ships since East Blue.

Does a ship having Fujitora on it suddenly become much more durable then a regular ship?


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco bullies Law


----------



## Lord Stark (Mar 17, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> yeah I do, I think Marco is below Doffy and near Law.



That's just false.  The WB pirates are flat out stated to be the most powerful pirate crew in the world back in the databooks.  WB felt comfortable going to war with another Yonkou, Shanks.  With himself and his top two commanders alone (Vista and the other commanders were no where to be found) and his other two/3 ships were also not present.  

Furthermore I really doubt that if you take out a Yonkou his crew would be able to hold there own against another Yonkou crew. 


And as for BB running from Akainu that was a year before his fight with Marco.


----------



## Chrollo Lucilfer (Mar 17, 2016)

> both have similar feats against admirals

Ahahaha


----------



## Quuon (Mar 17, 2016)

Well, you gotta respect the OP's tenacity.

Marco mid-high diffs Law.

His better feats speak for themselves until we see Law competing at that next level.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco mid diffs (at worst) Law, seeing as how even DD was able to mid diff Law


----------



## MYJC (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco wins but people aren't giving Law enough credit. 

He probably puts up a respectable mid-diff fight.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 17, 2016)

Marco wouldn't mid diff Doffy even in his fapping dreams


----------



## convict (Mar 17, 2016)

You know, a lot of people consider this chapter de-hype for Marco. I thought Teach having beaten him over the skip was the most widely popular opinion already because ever since we found out that Blackbeard became a Yonkou not much else would make sense about why Marco hadn't confronted Blackbeard. What really struck me in the chapter was the line stating that only after defeating Marco was Blackbeard credited to becoming a Yonkou. Marco is significant enough that if you beat him you are lauded as one of the four emperors. That is the highest hype one can get asides from being an emperor oneself. It is hard to argue that Law pushes Doflamingo any more than mid difficulty from what we saw in the manga and while Doflamingo is no slouch he doesn't nearly get the level of hype that Marco does.

Marco low difficulty.


----------



## barreltheif (Mar 17, 2016)

Doffy is a lot more lethal than pineapple. Law being beaten quickly by Doffy doesn't translate to being beaten quickly by pineapple.
I think Law would put up a good fight, though he'd eventually go down.



convict said:


> You know, a lot of people consider this chapter de-hype for Marco. I thought Teach having beaten him over the skip was the most widely popular opinion already because ever since we found out that Blackbeard became a Yonkou not much else would make sense about why Marco hadn't confronted Blackbeard. What really struck me in the chapter was the line stating that only after defeating Marco was Blackbeard credited to becoming a Yonkou. Marco is significant enough that if you beat him you are lauded as one of the four emperors. That is the highest hype one can get asides from being an emperor oneself. It is hard to argue that Law pushes Doflamingo any more than mid difficulty from what we saw in the manga and while Doflamingo is no slouch he doesn't nearly get the level of hype that Marco does.
> Marco low difficulty.




The BBs *overwhelmingly *defeated the WBs, and it was a year ago too. Teach has gotten stronger since then.
The WB pirates were the main people standing in the way of Teach taking WB's territory. It makes perfect sense that beating them was what solidified his yonkou status. That's not hype for pineapple.


----------



## Empathy (Mar 17, 2016)

The first mate of the world's strongest pirate crew and right-hand to the world's strongest man would defeat Law with low difficulty (not no difficulty and not mid).


----------



## barreltheif (Mar 17, 2016)

Empathy said:


> The first mate of the world's strongest pirate crew and right-hand to the world's strongest man would defeat Law with low difficulty (not no difficulty and not mid).




Pineapple was overwhelming defeated by Blackbeard a year ago.
Kaido > Blackbeard now >> Blackbeard a year ago >>> pineapple.
Kaido would mid diff or even low diff pineapple.
Law and Luffy are about to go to war with Kaido. Unless you think they're planning to take on someone who would low diff someone who would low diff them, there's no way they're that far below pineapple.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 17, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> Pineapple was overwhelming defeated by Blackbeard a year ago.
> Kaido > Blackbeard now >> Blackbeard a year ago >>> pineapple.
> Kaido would mid diff or even low diff pineapple.
> Law and Luffy are about to go to war with Kaido. Unless you think they're planning to take on someone who would low diff someone who would low diff them, there's no way they're that far below pineapple.



law got mid diffed, bordering on low diff by doflamingo. 
Admirals are> Doflamingo (in most likelihood), so they'd solid low diff law. 
Yonko are> Admirals, so you can only imagine what they'd do to law. 

This whole "They're going to go to war against Yonko" schtick isn't going to cut it. They're going to have to get powerups. All of them.


----------



## barreltheif (Mar 17, 2016)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> law got mid diffed, bordering on low diff by doflamingo.
> Admirals are> Doflamingo (in most likelihood), so they'd solid low diff law.
> Yonko are> Admirals, so you can only imagine what they'd do to law.
> This whole "They're going to go to war against Yonko" schtick isn't going to cut it. They're going to have to get powerups. All of them.




Doffy mid diffed an already injured Law. He still ended up taking a ton of damage too.
Doffy is also much more lethal than pineapple, so he beats people weaker than him with less difficulty. I don't think Law will fare any worse against pineapple.

I don't doubt that someone like Kaido could low diff Law. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that Kaido could low diff someone who could low diff Law.


----------



## Jackalinthebox (Mar 17, 2016)

Maybe it's just me, but I think Doflamingo is a bad match up for Law(though Marco would be too). Doffy is pretty damn quick, reflexive, and has great overall mobility in general. Law seems to do much better against slow/ average speed fighters who try to tank attacks and over power people.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 17, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> Doffy mid diffed an already injured Law. He still ended up taking a ton of damage too./QUOTE]
> 
> Injuries likely don't matter much. People in this manga give their best work when they're closest to their end. Luffy vs crocodile for example, zoro vs Mr1 etc etc. Not to mention, the first time they fought, Doffy only got a cut on his cheek from it. The second time it was only because of various distractions and stuff that he managed anything.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 18, 2016)

How exactly does Law plan on doing any damage to the parrot again?  I mean mes and gamma knife are virtually worthless against someone who can regen from having his whole body riddled with light beams assuming he could even pull those on the parrot to begin with. Sambles, soul swapping, tact or whatever else law has shown are not going to cut it. Tbh this is a terrible matchup for Law.


----------



## savior2005 (Mar 18, 2016)

marco kicks his ass.


----------



## Raiden34 (Mar 18, 2016)

convict said:


> You know, a lot of people consider this chapter de-hype for Marco. I thought Teach having beaten him over the skip was the most widely popular opinion already because ever since we found out that Blackbeard became a Yonkou not much else would make sense about why Marco hadn't confronted Blackbeard. What really struck me in the chapter was the line stating that only after defeating Marco was Blackbeard credited to becoming a Yonkou. Marco is significant enough that if you beat him you are lauded as one of the four emperors. That is the highest hype one can get asides from being an emperor oneself. It is hard to argue that Law pushes Doflamingo any more than mid difficulty from what we saw in the manga and while Doflamingo is no slouch he doesn't nearly get the level of hype that Marco does.
> 
> Marco low difficulty.



We dont even need to see that chapter though gorousei already said that Marco was the fifth only after yonko


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Ava said:


> We're comparing a ship to an Admiral's body?
> 
> People have been destroying ships since East Blue.
> 
> Does a ship having Fujitora on it suddenly become much more durable then a regular ship?



no but it makes its defense much harder to penetrate.

Law redirected an Admiral's attack to attack an Admiral's belonging, very impressive.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Overwhelming defeat means from low to mid difficulty to my eyes but we don't know if Marco got bodied or not


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> Doffy is a lot more lethal than pineapple. Law being beaten quickly by Doffy doesn't translate to being beaten quickly by pineapple.
> I think Law would put up a good fight, though he'd eventually go down.
> 
> 
> ...




this I can agree with, I think Law might lose to Marco because he mentioned about his stamina a few times, if Marco manage to avoid Law's hax slashes and tank his damage dealing attacks like injection shots or gamma knife, he's prob going to outlast Law. but Marco lacking long or midrange attacks will make it very hard for him to take control of the battle.

btw Law losing to Doffy fairly quick was because he just fought an Admiral + a high tier Shichibukai at the same time, he's def not in his best shape when he fought Doffy.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Empathy said:


> The first mate of the world's strongest pirate crew and right-hand to the world's strongest man would defeat Law with low difficulty (not no difficulty and not mid).



Marco is not first mate of WB and not right hand man, maybe he acts as one at times but he's WB's son, that's very difference from what Rayleigh was to Roger, that's what a real first mate and right hand man means.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> How exactly does Law plan on doing any damage to the parrot again?  I mean mes and gamma knife are virtually worthless against someone who can regen from having his whole body riddled with light beams assuming he could even pull those on the parrot to begin with. Sambles, soul swapping, tact or whatever else law has shown are not going to cut it. Tbh this is a terrible matchup for Law.



same way he beats Vergo, Marco can't regenerate from these kind of cut, rendering his regen useless once he lands one.
also Marco has no mid or long range attacks, he's gonna have to fly or run at Law, something pretty similar to what Vergo did.
Doffy was a bad match up for Law, not only he's quick and mobile, he's also very swift in close combat, has mid range and long range attacks, best type to overwhelm Law.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

How many people are you replying to?


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> law got mid diffed, bordering on low diff by doflamingo.
> Admirals are> Doflamingo (in most likelihood), so they'd solid low diff law.
> Yonko are> Admirals, so you can only imagine what they'd do to law.
> 
> This whole "They're going to go to war against Yonko" schtick isn't going to cut it. They're going to have to get powerups. All of them.



Yonko aren't > Admirals, they are about equal.
Doffy would put up a high diff against most if not all Admirals, and a fresh Law is doing better than mid diffed by Doffy, he might put up a mid diff against Fuji.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Kaido >> Akainu


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> barreltheif said:
> 
> 
> > Injuries likely don't matter much. People in this manga give their best work when they're closest to their end. Luffy vs crocodile for example, zoro vs Mr1 etc etc. Not to mention, the first time they fought, Doffy only got a cut on his cheek from it. The second time it was only because of various distractions and stuff that he managed anything.
> ...


----------



## trance (Mar 18, 2016)

Law was struggling just to stay alive against Doffy and Doffy wasn't even using his trump card. 

Marco crushes him pretty easily.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> How many people are you replying to?



lol most of the ones I see worth replying with decent about of logic in it.



Finalbeta said:


> Kaido >> Akainu



not sure, maybe Kaido >= Akainu at the moment, but I doubt even that, by EOS it's prob Akainu >= Kaido
Kaido has nothing on him except for hype for now.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Kaido = Current strongest Pirate alive


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> Law was struggling just to stay alive against Doffy and Doffy wasn't even using his trump card.
> 
> Marco crushes him pretty easily.



Law stayed alive vs Fuji + Doffy


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Kaido = Current strongest Pirate alive



Akainu isn't a Pirate


----------



## trance (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Law stayed alive vs Fuji + Doffy



By relying on misdirection and quick thinking. We've seen countless times that Law's mind is just as dangerous as his powers.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Akainu isn't a Pirate



Strongest Admiral  << Strongest Pirate


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> By relying on misdirection and quick thinking. We've seen countless times that Law's mind is just as dangerous as his powers.



yes, which is a part of his arsenal, makes him powerful and hard to beat.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Law's mind is diabolik


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Strongest Admiral  << Strongest Pirate



Fleet Admiral is pretty close to Pirate King in their own respective.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Fleet Admiral is pretty close to Pirate King in their own respective.



Akainu would get mid diffed by the likes of Roger Pre-TS
Don't know if he got stronger since his age is already near 60, but it's a possibility


----------



## trance (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> yes, which is a part of his arsenal, makes him powerful and hard to beat.



I know but he still came up short against Doffy, who wasn't even using the full extent of his power.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Akainu would get mid diffed by the likes of Roger Pre-TS
> Don't know if he got stronger since his age is already near 60, but it's a possibility



depends on how much stronger WB is compare to his prime, no way to tell.

personally I don't think Akainu will get mid diffed pre TS, prime Akainu is the equivalent of prime Garp, and I doubt Akainu got much stronger, if any, post TS.



Kyouko said:


> I know but he still came up short against Doffy, who wasn't even using the full extent of his power.



most of Doffy vs Law was off panel, we don't know how much power Doffy used.
but Law was injured and exhausted against Fuji + Doffy earlier on.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Akainu will never be as strong as Prime Garp  the fucker was a true hero Akainu can't equal all of that charisma


----------



## trance (Mar 18, 2016)

Awakening is the greatest extent of Doffy's power and it required G4 to bring it out.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Prime Garp > Old Garp > Sakazuki >>>> Marco >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a turd > Trafalgar Law


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> Awakening is the greatest extent of Doffy's power and it required G4 to bring it out.



Doffy used Awakening abilities in the fight against Law and Luffy before Luffy went G4, he just didn't declare the awakening part of it, the "break white" attack was clearly an awakening technique.

so there really is no way to tell if Doffy used it against Law off panel, since he dishes them out randomly.



Finalbeta said:


> Prime Garp > Old Garp > Sakazuki >>>> Marco >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a turd > Trafalgar Law



Prime Garp?Sakazuki > MF Garp >>>>> Marco >= Law


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

the ? made me shit in my dirty pants


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> the ? made me shit in my dirty pants



I think prime Garp is most likely still stronger than Akainu just not sure how much, since there's no way we can tell how much stronger a prime Garp is compare to the MF one.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Primebeard should mid diff Old WB in my eyes


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Primebeard should mid diff Old WB in my eyes



doubt age played that big of a factor, considering Kizaru is approaching 60 and still looks well within his prime.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

He was sick as hell tho


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> He was sick as hell tho



what about Rayleigh Garp Sengoku


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Rayleigh was also pretty nerfed, 20+ years without using a sword is a big deal, also he wasted his body in alcoholics


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Rayleigh was also pretty nerfed, 20+ years without using a sword is a big deal, also he wasted his body in alcoholics



but Sengoku was prob at the end of his prime during MF, seeing how his hair was still black at the time, and to be honest he wasn't very impressive during MF.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Sengoku has always been weaker than Garp, don't know by how much


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> same way he beats Vergo, Marco can't regenerate from these kind of cut, rendering his regen useless once he lands one.
> also Marco has no mid or long range attacks, he's gonna have to fly or run at Law, something pretty similar to what Vergo did.
> Doffy was a bad match up for Law, not only he's quick and mobile, he's also very swift in close combat, has mid range and long range attacks, best type to overwhelm Law.



Smoker was able to keep up and pin Law at one point in their fight and the parrot >>>> him so what actually happens is is the parrot dodges all of Laws attacks and slits his throat in a low dif fight at worst. Still a bad matchup.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Smoker was able to keep up and pin Law at one point in their fight and the parrot >>>> him so what actually happens is is the parrot dodges all of Laws attacks and slits his throat in a low dif fight at worst. Still a bad matchup.



Smoker is a midrange fighter with his DF expanding ability.
and Smoker lost anyways.
wouldn't the same logic apply to Vergo vs Law? but Vergo lost too.


----------



## Raiden34 (Mar 18, 2016)

Lol @ fleet Admiral being equal to PK. Admirals never becomes fleet admiral by beating other marines unlike Pk does with other pirates, only Akainu vs. Aokiji happened as first in the history and it has lasted 10 days with heavy injuries to the both sides.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Sengoku isn't truly comparable with Garp

Not at all actually


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Erkan12 said:


> Lol @ fleet Admiral being equal to PK. Admirals never becomes fleet admiral by beating other marines unlike Pk does with other pirates, only Akainu vs. Aokiji happened as first in the history and it was lasted 10 days with heavy injuries to the both sides



PK doesn't become PK by defeating every other pirate either, Roger never defeated WB or Shiki.

Fleet Admiral is the highest Marine position, a good symbol for the strongest Marine at that time, even thou sometimes it's not the strongest Marine that gets it, in Roger's era the strongest Marine is Garp, Sengoku is most likely No.2 and he got it, in current era Akainu is Fleet Admiral and it's hard to tell if he's stronger than Kizaru, but ranking wise FA > Admiral like how PK > Yonko.


----------



## Raiden34 (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> PK doesn't become PK by defeating every other pirate either, Roger never defeated Wb or Shiki.



Lol wut.

Roger didn't only beat Wb and Shiki, (he gave a scar to Wb's chest, and a ship wheel to Shiki's head)

He also conquered the NewWorld, Marines never does that.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Erkan12 said:


> Lol wut.
> 
> Roger didn't only beat Wb and Shiki, (he gave a scar to Wb's chest, and a ship wheel to Shiki's head)
> 
> He also conquered the NewWorld, Marines never does that.



Roger did't beat WB, he never did.
Shiki's ship wheel was caused by the storm.

he didn't "conquer" New World, not like he was ruling over them, Wb and Shiki weren't under Roger's command, he conquered it as in he traveled through it and found One Piece.
Marines don't find One Piece, they prevent people from finding it.
Roger bested the Marines in that regard thou, but it wasn't easy.


----------



## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Roger and WB were perfect equals


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Smoker is a midrange fighter with his DF expanding ability.
> and Smoker lost anyways.
> wouldn't the same logic apply to Vergo vs Law? but Vergo lost too.



Doesn't matter it was an example regardless the parrot shits on both of them and Doflamingo in physical stats. Marco don't need to play Law's game the use way mingo didn't being straight up stronger than Law.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Doesn't matter it was an example regardless the parrot shits on both of them and Doflamingo in physical stats. Marco don't need to play Law's game the use way mingo didn't being straight up stronger than Law.



Marco's physical stats def aren't better than Doffys, actually Zoro is prob a good comparison for Marco's physical stats.
Marco prob has to play Law's game somewhat, since he can only fight in close range.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 18, 2016)

Base Marco is Vista level I'd say


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## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 18, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Marco's physical stats def aren't better than Laws, actually Zoro is prob a good comparison for Marco's physical stats.
> Marco prob has to play Law's game somewhat, since he can only fight in close range.


Zoro>Law in strength tho. Marco only being able to fight at close range is hardly a weakness and since characters weaker than law himself have given him quite a bit of trouble would it not be reasonable to assume the first mate of Whitebeard to out preform a vice admiral? I mean if the first mate of the late wsm can't even beat someone who isn't even the strongest of the supernova's then is that not a insult to the Whitebeard pirates strength?


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## Yuki (Mar 18, 2016)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Zoro>Law in strength tho. Marco only being able to fight at close range is hardly a weakness and since characters weaker than law himself have given him quite a bit of trouble would it not be reasonable to assume the first mate of Whitebeard to out preform a vice admiral? I mean if the first mate of the late wsm can't even beat someone who isn't even the strongest of the supernova's then is that not a insult to the Whitebeard pirates strength?



He's a fucking idiot just forget about him.


----------



## Lord Stark (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Base Marco is Vista level I'd say



He'd still probably beat Vista in base. Imo Marco's physical stats are roughly G4 Luffy level.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 18, 2016)

Lord Stark said:


> He'd still probably beat Vista in base. Imo Marco's physical stats are roughly G4 Luffy level.



Not in base. He's losing speed, Zoan enhancements and talons to increase the lethal power of his strikes. But yeah... I agree that his stats are around G4 Luffy's level in hybrid form.


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## Lord Stark (Mar 18, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> Not in base. He's losing speed, Zoan enhancements and talons to increase the lethal power of his strikes. But yeah... I agree that his stats are around G4 Luffy's level in hybrid form.



Yeah I forgot that his speed would be hindered with loss of flight.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Onewhosbeenaround said:


> Zoro>Law in strength tho. Marco only being able to fight at close range is hardly a weakness and since characters weaker than law himself have given him quite a bit of trouble would it not be reasonable to assume the first mate of Whitebeard to out preform a vice admiral? I mean if the first mate of the late wsm can't even beat someone who isn't even the strongest of the supernova's then is that not a insult to the Whitebeard pirates strength?



sorry it was a typo, I meant to say Marco's physical stats aren't better than Doffy's.
yeah Zoro > Law in strength I agree, Marco > Law in strength also.
Smoker gave Law trouble cuz Smoker is quite strong himself, and Marco will outperform a VA such as Smoker, but that's not enough for him to beat Law, to me Marco >= Law > Smoker.
and no it's not an insult to WB's crew strength, top tier SNs are already Yonko top commander tier, considering Kidd Alliance targeting Shanks, Hawkins, Apoo and Killer automatically matching up against top Yonko commanders,so will Law.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Base Marco is Vista level I'd say



I think Base Marco = bare hand Vista, Marco losing stats flight and cutting talon in his base form.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Lord Stark said:


> He'd still probably beat Vista in base. Imo Marco's physical stats are roughly G4 Luffy level.



def not, strength wise G4 Luffy > Jozu > Marco.
also I think G3 Luffy > Marco in strength, but prob less than Jozu.


----------



## Mr. Good vibes (Mar 18, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> He's a fucking idiot just forget about him.



That was clear from the beginning although I just kept on at it to see how far he's willing to defend his position. Mistakes were made.


----------



## Six (Mar 18, 2016)

Marco wins this but it is amazing how underrated Law is. First of all, Marco beats Law and any of the Straw Hats. 

Secondly, The same people who say Law gets no diffed are the same people who are going to bitch and call Oda a Law fanboy or Law a sue when he does beat someone of Marco's caliber or higher or later. Well guess what idiots when that time comes and it will, you have no right to go around bitching because of all the mental gymnastics you've pulled off in order to convince yourself that Law isn't shit.

And to be frank, Law has a better chance than Luffy of beating most opponents due to the one shot nature of his fruit. Doflamingo never once faced a 100% Law on his own, he still would have won but it would have been far more difficult than what was shown in the manga. He only ever faced a Law getting jumped by him and an admiral, and a Law that had been fighting all day.. Not to mention he knew virtually everything about Law's fruit which Marco an many others to come won't know.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Law Trafalgar said:


> Marco wins this but it is amazing how underrated Law is. First of all, Marco beats Law and any of the Straw Hats.
> 
> Secondly, The same people who say Law gets no diffed are the same people who are going to bitch and call Oda a Law fanboy or Law a sue when he does beat someone of Marco's caliber or higher or later. Well guess what idiots when that time comes and it will, you have no right to go around bitching because of all the mental gymnastics you've pulled off in order to convince yourself that Law isn't shit.
> 
> And to be frank, Law has a better chance than Luffy of beating most opponents due to the one shot nature of his fruit. Doflamingo never once faced a 100% Law on his own, he still would have won but it would have been far more difficult than what was shown in the manga. He only ever faced a Law getting jumped by him and an admiral, and a Law that had been fighting all day.. Not to mention he knew virtually everything about Law's fruit which Marco an many others to come won't know.



exactly what I'm saying, except I'm not sure about Marco beating Law or Zoro, and Marco ain't beating Luffy, if Luffy plays his hands properly.


----------



## Lord Melkor (Mar 18, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> Doffy mid diffed an already injured Law. He still ended up taking a ton of damage too.
> Doffy is also much more lethal than pineapple, so he beats people weaker than him with less difficulty. I don't think Law will fare any worse against pineapple.
> 
> I don't doubt that someone like Kaido could low diff Law. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that Kaido could low diff someone who could low diff Law.



I agree.  Law should have gotten stronger after Dressrosa so I quess he can give Marco solid medium difficulty. Luffy would propably give him high with G4.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 18, 2016)

Lord Melkor said:


> I agree.  Law should have gotten stronger after Dressrosa



why? people in OP get stronger when they win against tough opponents

all Law has done is lose


----------



## Lord Melkor (Mar 18, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> why? people in OP get stronger when they win against tough opponents
> 
> all Law has done is lose



Law fought a lot in Dressrosa, pushed himself to the extremes. He is likely to be shown as stronger in Wano arc, I can imagine him and Zoro being able to fight Kaidou's top commanders  and Shogun's top samurai (Zoro is likely to fight Shogun himself).


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 18, 2016)

Lord Melkor said:


> Law fought a lot in Dressrosa, pushed himself to the extremes. He is likely to be shown as stronger in Wano arc, I can imagine him and Zoro being able to fight Kaidou's top commanders  and Shogun's top samurai (Zoro is likely to fight Shogun himself).



Law and Zoro can already fight Yonko top commanders.


----------



## Jackalinthebox (Mar 18, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> why? people in OP get stronger when they win against tough opponents
> 
> all Law has done is lose



People in OP get stronger after being pushed to their limits and suffering defeats that require them to create new techniques. Like when the SH's got wrecked by Aokiji and CP9.

Besides, not like Law didn't defeat anybody during Dressrosa.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

DR arc would have said low diff in favor of Marco (low diff because terrible match up), while now.. Marco being wrecked by BB probably left him in a bad state (might not even have his df anymore), i'll still give him benefit of the doubt but by wano arc, i think that will change.


----------



## Yuki (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> DR arc would have said low diff in favor of Marco (low diff because terrible match up), while now.. Marco being wrecked by BB probably left him in a bad state (might not even have his df anymore), i'll still give him benefit of the doubt but by wano arc, i think that will change.



Without his DF he would be dead and with it he cannot be in a bad state coz of regen. >_>


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> DR arc would have said low diff in favor of Marco (low diff because terrible match up), while now.. Marco being wrecked by BB probably left him in a bad state (might not even have his df anymore), i'll still give him benefit of the doubt but by wano arc, i think that will change.



I seriously doubt Marco lost his DF, from what we know so far for BB to acquire a DF they choose to kill somebody first, like BB crew killed WB and Burgess tried to kill an exhausted Luffy, so it can be assumed BB can only get the DF if the owner is dead. Marco is clearly alive thus he kept his fruit most likely.

but Law's feat from Dressrosa arc, specially the first half of it, def comparable to Marco.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Without his DF he would be dead and with it he cannot be in a bad state coz of regen. >_>



We aren't completely sure how BB's fruit works, so he might or might not still have his fruit. Considering how powerful Marco's fruit is... kinda seems out of character for BB not too collect it after his overwhelming win (him and his crew have been said to be actively collecting fruits.)


@Gucci
It was only one instance that we saw BB take someones fruit (all done behind covers). And Marco's fruit seems too good too pass up for BB imo.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 19, 2016)

> @Gucci
> It was only one instance that we saw BB take someones fruit (all done behind covers). And Marco's fruit seems too good too pass up for BB imo.



there's just no evidence of BB being able to take somebody's fruit while the user's still alive yet.
he could thou.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> there's just no evidence of BB being able to take somebody's fruit while the user's still alive yet.
> he could thou.


There is very little info on how he does it... Whether the individual has to be dead or not for it too work hasn't be explained So, it's a maybe/ maybe case.


----------



## Yuki (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> We aren't completely sure how BB's fruit works, so he might or might not still have his fruit. Considering how powerful Marco's fruit is... kinda seems out of character for BB not too collect it after his overwhelming win (him and his crew have been said to be actively collecting fruits.)
> 
> 
> @Gucci
> It was only one instance that we saw BB take someones fruit (all done behind covers). And Marco's fruit seems too good too pass up for BB imo.



He likely tried.

BB is also not the sort of guy to not kill someone when he has the chance. 

If he got to steal his DF there is no way Imo that Marco would be alive.


----------



## Raiden34 (Mar 19, 2016)

Teach can't take Marco's fruit for the sake of the plot because he would be extremely powerful with it. He is already become extremely powerful with Yami + Gura, just add Phoenix regene, and you will have an invincible person.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> He likely tried.
> 
> BB is also not the sort of guy to not kill someone when he has the chance.
> 
> If he got to steal his DF there is no way Imo that Marco would be alive.


Well, if he was able to take his fruit without killing him, don't think there is any need to having taken his best asset already.

I get where you're coming from but imo i don't see Marco joining the fight with Kaidou with his full strength whether that might mean not having his fruit or his will being broken  in the fight against BB.

If killing him was the only option in taking his fruit, than i think it's a done deal already than.



Erkan12 said:


> Teach can't take Marco's fruit for the sake of the plot because he would be extremely powerful with it. He is already become extremely powerful with Yami + Gura, just add Phoenix regene, and you will have an invincible person.


Well, people love the theory of BB having 3 fruits (One for each class) and there really isn't a better fruit for BB than marco's imo, but i don't think he has it himself... maybe he gave it too one of the other captains of his crew (laffite if he doesn't have one already?).


----------



## Yuki (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Well, if he was able to take his fruit without killing him, don't think there is any need to having taken his best asset already.
> 
> I get where you're coming from but imo i don't see Marco joining the fight with Kaidou with his full strength whether that might mean not having his fruit or his will being broken  in the fight against BB.
> 
> ...



Honestly... i believe this alliance needs a full powered Marco in their corner.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Honestly... i believe this alliance needs a full powered Marco in their corner.


Depends on how strong Jack is and his position within the crew imo. If jack is FM and still weaker than MF Marco, than i don't think there will be any need but we will see i guess.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Depends on how strong Jack is and his position within the crew imo. If jack is FM and still weaker than MF Marco, than i don't think there will be any need but we will see i guess.



I seriously doubt Jack will be the FM and weaker than MF Marco at the same time, he could be 1 of the 2 thou.
if the Kaido War is mainly individual match ups, Marco will most likely end up fighting one of the weaker Calamities, or something like "the Shogun's right hand man", and end up winning.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> I seriously doubt Jack will be the FM and weaker than MF Marco at the same time, he could be 1 of the 2 thou.
> if the Kaido War is mainly individual match ups, Marco will most likely end up fighting one of the weaker Calamities, or something like "the Shogun's right hand man", and end up winning.


Most people from what i remember consider Marco the weakest top tier (which is a big deal). So, Jack can still be the FM for kaidou and still be weaker than MF Marco because there are still two more mebers who should be around his level.
There's gonna be a lot of if's till we actually how things go down and we get to see everyone that will be involved in the war.

The shogun seems like he will turn out to be zoro's opponent, so Marco taking on his underling wouldn't make any sense at all unless... He lost his abilities.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 19, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Most people from what i remember consider Marco the weakest top tier (which is a big deal). So, Jack can still be the FM for kaidou and still be weaker than MF Marco because there are still two more mebers who should be around his level.
> There's gonna be a lot of if's till we actually how things go down and we get to see everyone that will be involved in the war.
> 
> The shogun seems like he will turn out to be zoro's opponent, so Marco taking on his underling wouldn't make any sense at all unless... He lost his abilities.




I don't consider Marco the weakest top tier, he's one of the high high tiers.
if Jack is a true FM like Beckmann is to Shanks, he will be stronger than Marco, if he's not a clear first mate then he's prob around Marco's level.

Zoro prob will be stronger than Marco by the end of Wano Arc, I think Zoro is already near Marco right now.
Luffy, Zoro, Law, Inu, Neko, Marco, these 6 will end up fighting the strongest foes in Wano, which are Kaido, 2 Calamties(Jack will be taken care of this arc most likely, like Vergo in PH), Drake, Shogun, and prob a very powerful character under Shogun, I mean it's your pick, Marco ain't getting Kaido or Shogun that's for sure.


----------



## TheWiggian (Mar 19, 2016)

Marco wins with medium (high) difficulty.


----------



## Beast (Mar 19, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> I don't consider Marco the weakest top tier, he's one of the high high tiers.
> if Jack is a true FM like Beckmann is to Shanks, he will be stronger than Marco, if he's not a clear first mate then he's prob around Marco's level.
> 
> Zoro prob will be stronger than Marco by the end of Wano Arc, I think Zoro is already near Marco right now.
> Luffy, Zoro, Law, Inu, Neko, Marco, these 6 will end up fighting the strongest foes in Wano, which are Kaido, 2 Calamties(Jack will be taken care of this arc most likely, like Vergo in PH), Drake, Shogun, and prob a very powerful character under Shogun, I mean it's your pick, Marco ain't getting Kaido or Shogun that's for sure.


High high tier i can agree with.

...Not sure if you're serious but Ben and Jack get power scaled to Marco, nothing suggest that either are stronger than him. If jack isn't FM, he isn't going to be equal to Marco by a long shot (at least the MF version).

Maybe after Wano he should be up there, maybe equal but i don't think he will be clearly stronger than him unless they have individual opponents (Luffy beat Kaidou on his own... doesn't seem so possible though).

The reason i'm nerfing Marco (no df) is because he could potentially beat anyone other than Kaidou... and that would be taking the shine from the main force  (SH and Law). I think Drake might join forces with with LL alliance.


----------



## GucciBandana (Mar 20, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> High high tier i can agree with.
> 
> ...Not sure if you're serious but Ben and Jack get power scaled to Marco, nothing suggest that either are stronger than him. If jack isn't FM, he isn't going to be equal to Marco by a long shot (at least the MF version).
> 
> ...



Ben is slightly higher than Marco, he's a real first mate, not only he's clearly the 2nd strongest in Shanks crew he might also be very close to Shanks himself, like Zoro is to Luffy, Rayleigh is to Roger. also trolling or not, I feel like Kizaru's reaction to Beckmann > Marco.
MF Marco isn't really above MF Jozu, they are roughly the same tier with Marco just slightly higher. WB crew had to lose WB(their leader), Ace(their future leader with highest potential) and an arm for Jozu(as strong as Marco) to make Marco the clear leader of the WB remnants. Jack however might be the same category, but Beckmann and Shilliew aren't. even if Jack isn't FM, he can still be around MF Jozu, which is pretty much right next to MF Marco.

well Oda likes to finish with 1 on 1 battles, Luffy might gang up on Kaido but it's prob gonna be very similar to Law + Luffy vs Doffy + Trebol, plus the help of stalling fodders and low tiers, with Luffy battling Kaido 1 on 1 for some time period at least.
personally I think Marco vs any of the 3 Calamities is going to be around extreme diff, might even lose to the strongest one, and Marco lacks damage dealing so if we don't want this fight to drag on, better give him the one with weakest durability(maybe a pterodactyl ancient zoan?).
well during the DR arc Law can beat anybody other than Doffy himself and ended up taking out Trebol, Marco in Kaido arc def ain't gonna be as important as Law in DR.
I think as we enter Wano arc, Marco >= Law = Zoro


----------



## Beast (Mar 20, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Ben is slightly higher than Marco, he's a real first mate, not only he's clearly the 2nd strongest in Shanks crew he might also be very close to Shanks himself, like Zoro is to Luffy, Rayleigh is to Roger. also trolling or not, I feel like Kizaru's reaction to Beckmann > Marco.
> MF Marco isn't really above MF Jozu, they are roughly the same tier with Marco just slightly higher. WB crew had to lose WB(their leader), Ace(their future leader with highest potential) and an arm for Jozu(as strong as Marco) to make Marco the clear leader of the WB remnants. Jack however might be the same category, but Beckmann and Shilliew aren't. even if Jack isn't FM, he can still be around MF Jozu, which is pretty much right next to MF Marco.
> 
> well Oda likes to finish with 1 on 1 battles, Luffy might gang up on Kaido but it's prob gonna be very similar to Law + Luffy vs Doffy + Trebol, plus the help of stalling fodders and low tiers, with Luffy battling Kaido 1 on 1 for some time period at least.
> ...


Nothing suggests at Ben or Jack being stronger than Marco at MF. He was named with the yonko (Ben and Jacks superiors) being the only that could have beat BB at MF. It's all just your opinion right now and Zoro isn't exactly equal or his level as it currently stands.

Marco has been the clear leader after WB, whether Ace or Jozu (two arms) were there. Marco> Jozu and that's been made clear from the get go. Ben and Jack  if anything would be power scaled too Marco not stronger than him.

doubt they will all have 1v1 fights, Luffy would have too beat Kaidou 1v1 and i don't think he is ready for that though.


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## Shanks (Mar 21, 2016)

How the fuck did this troll thread get to so many pages?


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## GucciBandana (Mar 21, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Nothing suggests at Ben or Jack being stronger than Marco at MF. He was named with the yonko (Ben and Jacks superiors) being the only that could have beat BB at MF. It's all just your opinion right now and Zoro isn't exactly equal or his level as it currently stands.



not Jack, but Beckmann yes, from Kizaru's reaction, he might be trolling but still a sign.
you mean he was mentioned with the Yonko by Gorosei? they were talking about crew strengths, and Ben and Jack automatically categorized within their own Yonko crew, they weren't the leaders, while Marco is the leader of a crew that's significantly weaker.



> Marco has been the clear leader after WB, whether Ace or Jozu (two arms) were there. Marco> Jozu and that's been made clear from the get go. Ben and Jack  if anything would be power scaled too Marco not stronger than him.



there's no clear indication of MF Marco > MF Jozu, they were about equal during MF with Marco slightly better maybe, Jozu better strength better hardness against slashing attacks better Armament Haki, Marco better mobility better regen against elemental attacks and didn't lose conscious.
a clear Yonko FM gets scaled above Marco, a non-clear Yonko FM gets scaled to Marco.



> doubt they will all have 1v1 fights, Luffy would have too beat Kaidou 1v1 and i don't think he is ready for that though.



me either, I don't see Luffy beating Kaido 1 on 1 but I see him fighting Kaido 1 on 1 for a while and delivering the finishing blow.


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## Gohara (Mar 21, 2016)

Marco wins with low to mid difficulty, IMO.


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## Beast (Mar 21, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> not Jack, but Beckmann yes, from Kizaru's reaction, he might be trolling but still a sign.
> you mean he was mentioned with the Yonko by Gorosei? they were talking about crew strengths, and Ben and Jack automatically categorized within their own Yonko crew, they weren't the leaders, while Marco is the leader of a crew that's significantly weaker.
> 
> 
> ...


Kizaru's reaction meant nothing because he carried on his business of shooting at law's Submarine minutes later.
That still says something about his strength and position he holds. Jozu was never mentioned.

Both Marco and Jozu slipped up infront one of the C3 and you can clearly see the difference in results. The only thing that Jozu has over Marco is his strength, but that's all, both have shown similar states but Marco gets extra bonus points for his extraordinary DF, speed and flight.
Marco is a clear FM, so they get power scaled too him till they show better feats.

That'd be a very boring end to the crews first war together.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 24, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Kizaru's reaction meant nothing because he carried on his business of shooting at law's Submarine minutes later.
> That still says something about his strength and position he holds. Jozu was never mentioned.
> 
> Both Marco and Jozu slipped up infront one of the C3 and you can clearly see the difference in results. The only thing that Jozu has over Marco is his strength, but that's all, both have shown similar states but Marco gets extra bonus points for his extraordinary DF, speed and flight.
> ...



still more of a reaction than Marco ever gave Kizaru, but of course Kizaru is a very sarcastic person, he doesn't actually care much about Beckmann, but prob cares a little more than Marco.
Jozu already lost an arm by then.

Jozu has been fighting Aokiji for much longer than Marco did against Kizaru, in fact we don't know if he's been fighting Kizaru at all, and they basically had the same result, only difference is Marco has regen so he can join the fights later on, also Aokiji was prob more serious about putting his opponent out of commission since Jozu just made Aokiji bleed from his mouth, if Kizaru wanted to do the same he could've gave a cuffed Marco a head shot or something.
Jozu made 2 logia bleed during MF, and stopped Mihawk's slash, while Marco had to dodge Squardo's slash, that's a pretty big difference in hardness, Marco does have mobility and regen on Jozu no doubt, but over all I still don't see the edge.

so no he's not a clear FM during MF, now he is, after Ace died and Jozu lost an arm,


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

This thread is the longest in the BD since I joined


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## GucciBandana (Mar 24, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> This thread is the longest in the BD since I joined



the reason is most likely cuz I'm prob the first one here to notice/believe Law is on Marco's tier.
good debate thou


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> the reason is most likely cuz I'm prob the first one here to notice/believe Law is on Marco's tier.
> good debate thou



Law > Vista


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## GucciBandana (Mar 24, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Law > Vista



agreed


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## Pocalypse (Mar 24, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> Ben is slightly higher than Marco, he's a real first mate, not only he's clearly the 2nd strongest in Shanks crew he might also be very close to Shanks himself, like Zoro is to Luffy, Rayleigh is to Roger.



What do you mean Beckman is a "real first mate"? Are you implying Marco wasn't a real first mate in WB's crew? Marco was the 2nd strongest crew member in WB's crew, after the man himself. First mates will always be stronger than the rest of the commanders in their respective crew. 

The fact that *BB had to defeat Marco to become a Yonkou* speaks levels of Marco's worth compared to your downplay.


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## Beast (Mar 24, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> still more of a reaction than Marco ever gave Kizaru, but of course Kizaru is a very sarcastic person, he doesn't actually care much about Beckmann, but prob cares a little more than Marco.
> Jozu already lost an arm by then.
> 
> Jozu has been fighting Aokiji for much longer than Marco did against Kizaru, in fact we don't know if he's been fighting Kizaru at all, and they basically had the same result, only difference is Marco has regen so he can join the fights later on, also Aokiji was prob more serious about putting his opponent out of commission since Jozu just made Aokiji bleed from his mouth, if Kizaru wanted to do the same he could've gave a cuffed Marco a head shot or something.
> ...


...That is a really shitty excuse. Ben being stronger marco is nothing more than your opinion.
That isn't a good enough reason tbh.

A lip bleed is only a little better than no damage and he did all that with a sneak attack (Aokiji had his full attention on WB). No indication on how long either fought kizaru or Aokiji, what we know is that Marco was going up against all the 3 admirals while Jozu was being held by strings by DD. It took a sneak attack and VAs help for marco to be out of the game for a while.He was easily able to tank Kizaru's lasers when he was distracted. Aokiji is just as lazy if not even worse than Kizaru. Does the second logia refer too Crocodile? lol

Ace had potential and that's where it ended. Jozu is the runner up after marco.


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## Bohemian Knight (Mar 24, 2016)

Vista can beat Law. Marco whoops Law.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 25, 2016)

Pocalypse said:


> What do you mean Beckman is a "real first mate"? Are you implying Marco wasn't a real first mate in WB's crew? Marco was the 2nd strongest crew member in WB's crew, after the man himself. First mates will always be stronger than the rest of the commanders in their respective crew.
> 
> The fact that *BB had to defeat Marco to become a Yonkou* speaks levels of Marco's worth compared to your downplay.



real first mate as he's close to his captain in term of strength(which Marco isn't) and seemingly clearly stronger than the rest of his crew mates(which Marco isn't).
Marco is the 2nd strongest crew member in the WB crew, but despite leaders have similar strength, 2nd strongest crew member in the SH crew and 2nd strongest in Law's crew are very very different.

BB had to defeat Marco to become a Yonko because they share the previous Yonko's territory, it does not suggest Marco being stronger than any other FM or other very strong crew members of a Yonko.
there's no downplaying here, just dehyping.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 25, 2016)

Vista is a turd


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## GucciBandana (Mar 25, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> ...That is a really shitty excuse. Ben being stronger marco is nothing more than your opinion.
> That isn't a good enough reason tbh.
> 
> A lip bleed is only a little better than no damage and he did all that with a sneak attack (Aokiji had his full attention on WB). No indication on how long either fought kizaru or Aokiji, what we know is that Marco was going up against all the 3 admirals while Jozu was being held by strings by DD. It took a sneak attack and VAs help for marco to be out of the game for a while.He was easily able to tank Kizaru's lasers when he was distracted. Aokiji is just as lazy if not even worse than Kizaru. Does the second logia refer too Crocodile? lol
> ...



Beckmann has no feat, it's better to debate about this once he gets his.

it was indicated how long Jozu fought Aokiji, because last time we saw Jozu before he got frozen by Aokiji was the sneak attack caused the lip bleed, which afterwards he told WB to proceed, indicating he was actually holding Aokiji there, and since Jozu can't fly isn't as mobile as Marco, it's highly likely he was fighting Aokiji that whole time.
I think Jozu being held by DD is not as much of a downplay as Marco blind sided by Onigumo, since DD is much stronger than Onigumo, Jozu pretty much dominated the Giant VAs with the ice berg throw, while Marco has shown twice that a VA tier fighter is capable of putting up a fight against him. Marco does have better defensive feat against the Admirals(only 2, he has never shown tanking Aokiji's attack, the only WB crew member who did that other than WB himself is Ace), but Jozu also has the blocking Mihawk slash feat, their high end feat aren't that much different: capable of fighting with a true top tier like Admirals or Mihawk, if the fighting style suits them.
yes 2nd Logia is Croc, MF Croc is a quality high tier. and I think it's pretty clear that Jozu has shown better damage dealing capability than Marco during MF.
overall Jozu is right next to Marco, just behind him, gotta lose an arm for the separation to be clear.


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