# Demonbane vs Zeedmillenniummon



## Negative (Dec 10, 2011)

I was always interested in this match up. So, who wins?


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## Calamity (Dec 10, 2011)

Done before IIRC. Demonbane wins.

EDIT: My bad. It was done on another forum.


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## Nevermind (Dec 10, 2011)

Why?

From what I've seen, Zeed should win at full power. Never really gotten a good explanation of how vast Demonbane's cosmology is and that infinite Demonbane stuff is just a no limits fallacy.


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## Blade (Dec 10, 2011)

Multiversal draw.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

How exactly is this a no limit fallacy:



> There was Demonbane that was perfectly fine in shape without scratch.
> There was Demonbane that fought so many battles.
> There was incomplete Demonbane that had protruded bone spine.
> There was Demonbane that was almost destroyed, using its last bit of mana.
> ...



?



Blade said:


> Multiversal draw.



Don't think that is the case here my good friend.


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## Nevermind (Dec 10, 2011)

Because it's vague and says nothing.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Wut? it says a lot.


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## Nevermind (Dec 10, 2011)

No it doesn't. Theres no feats for that.

There was Demonbane that beat the Living Tribunal.

Prove me wrong.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Now you are using the feat to make it look like a NLF, the quote is clear it says it can create infinite copies of himself each one with different powers and IIRC there are versions of Demonabane that can pop universes like soap bubbles, it doesn't say is going to created a version that is going to defeat TOAA or anything like that.

So tell me how is the feat invalid, vague or a NLF?

And the fuck you mean by "Theres no feats for that" the feat is in the quote...


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## Calamity (Dec 10, 2011)

I seem to recall *someone* mentioning the following Demonbane as well 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Demonbane who defeated omnipotents.
Demonbane who had the TOAA and Kami Tenchi as his slaves.
Demonbane who destroyed the omniverse.
Demonbane who was just...a demonbane.
Demonbane who existed and didn't exist at the same time.
Demonbane who <insert stuff here>.




Infinite possibilities.  Apologies If I'm mistaken.


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## Nevermind (Dec 10, 2011)

Grαhf said:


> Now you are using the feat to make it look like a NLF, the quote is clear it says *it can create infinite copies of himself each one with different powers* and IIRC there are versions of Demonabane that can pop universes like soap bubbles, it doesn't say is going to created a version that is going to defeat TOAA or anything like that.
> 
> So tell me how is the feat invalid, vague or a NLF?
> 
> And the fuck you mean by "Theres no feats for that" the feat is in the quote...



Which is precisely the no limits fallacy.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Are you not reading the quote? are you not seeing what is wrote there? before you claim NLF take the time to read things.



> Demonbane who defeated omnipotents.
> Demonbane who had the TOAA and Kami Tenchi as his slaves.
> Demonbane who destroyed the omniverse.
> Demonbane who was just...a demonbane.
> ...



This is a NLF, but the quote clearly shows it can create infinite copies of himself and Demonbane is universal on it's own so infinite copies of that what would you think is going to happen? and no is not a NLF because Demonbane has universal feats and the quote shows he can make infinite copies of himself.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

This are other feats from Demonbane:



> Summoned when the Martians turn their planet into a massive magic circle to summon Master Therion and Edgar rewrites it to summon Demonbane.
> -500 metres tall, can grow bigger (10000 times to at least 5000 km once, and even bigger until the universe it was in collapsed once)
> -Can fire homing lasers that reach Earth from Mars in a moment and home in on and destroy millions of targets.
> -Armour can withstand hits from 5000 km Liber Regis while only 500 metres tall (5000 km Liber Regis/Demonbane destroy small planets by bumping into them)
> ...



Plus:


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

> *Gunshinkyoushuu Demonbane*
> 
> Summoned when the Martians turn their planet into a massive magic circle to summon Master Therion and Edgar rewrites it to summon Demonbane.
> -500 metres tall, can grow bigger (10000 times to at least 5000 km once, and even bigger until the universe it was in collapsed once)
> ...



Plus






Before jumping the gun and say NLF to everything take the time to research about the character in question.


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## Blade (Dec 10, 2011)

Multiversal research.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Indeed and with that said Demonbane wins.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Dec 10, 2011)

Zeed wins.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Do you have anything besides your opinion (which doesn't matter) to back that up? for example like I did with all those quotes.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 10, 2011)

how many universes did DB effect ? 

which one is more multiversal


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 10, 2011)

The top tiers of the Cthulhu Mythos function on an infinitely multiversal (or megaversal, depending on how you interpret the dimensions) scale, but you'd need proof of Demonbane's versions being that powerful if you wanted to scale Demonbane off that.


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## Weather (Dec 10, 2011)

> Now you are using the feat to make it look like a NLF, the quote is clear it says it can create infinite copies of himself each one with different powers and IIRC there are *versions of Demonabane that can pop universes like soap bubbles,* it doesn't say is going to created a version that is going to defeat TOAA or anything like that.



That's the one that got pwned by Nya.

Elder God Demonbane has pwned Nya around 400 billion times


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## Big Bοss (Dec 10, 2011)

Fluttershy said:


> how many universes did DB effect ?
> 
> which one is more multiversal



Read all the quotes about Demonbane is there, Zeed has nothing that comes close to that.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 10, 2011)

I need to play the game when I manage to get a connection that doesn't suck.


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## Calamity (Dec 11, 2011)

Grαhf said:


> Read all the quotes about Demonbane is there, *Zeed has nothing that comes close* to that.



I'm going to have to disagree with you until you clear up these points.

Zeed has:
-Absolute Time/Space control at a multiversal level.
-Exists in all points of time and space aka Omnipresence.
-Defeated two multiversal Gods that were responsible for every universe. timeline, creation of data entities.
-Could create VR versions of any Digimon which are more powerful than the original and have no weaknesses. Complete control of all time/space certainly helps in utilizing this power to the maximum.
-As long as time/space exist, Zeed can revive himself indefinitely.
-Creation and destruction of universes.
-At full power without his limiters off, his existence alone destroys everything. He can also exist even when time/space do not exist so he can survive the destruction of all.

Nothing that comes close, eh? In fact, apart from some super time stuff and crushing space time in a universe, I didn't notice anything that says Demonbane can totally disregard Zeed's time/space abilities. 

To quote from the an old Xenogears vs Digimon thread:



			
				Seyta said:
			
		

> This is still going on?
> 
> Anyways, I can probably guarantee you now that you won't find any sort of video evidence you're looking for.
> 
> ...



Also, this quote tells me that the forms below EG Demonbane at least are not immune to time manipulation:



> They fight equally matched non-stop for aeons and then Nyarlathotep gets  bored, turns back time, and kills the pilot when he was six years old  or something.
> 
> That's right, a Lovecraftian Elder* God had to use timefuckery in order  to kill *the pilot instead of beating the mecha. Also note that this is  still the weaker form of Elder God Demonbane and it can already destroy  universes.


You're going to need to explain this better. Seems to me the mecha is highly vulnerable if people can mess with the pilot to defeat the mecha.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 11, 2011)

> -Absolute Time/Space control at a multiversal level.



Prove it.



> -Exists in all points of time and space aka Omnipresence.



Prove it.


> -Defeated two multiversal Gods that were responsible for every universe. timeline, creation of data entities.



You mean those two computers? prove they are close to Nya.



> -Could create VR versions of any Digimon which are more powerful than the original and have no weaknesses. Complete control of all time/space certainly helps in utilizing this power to the maximum.



Prove it.



> -As long as time/space exist, Zeed can revive himself indefinitely.



Prove it.



> -Creation and destruction of universes.



Prove it.


> -At full power without his limiters off, his existence alone destroys everything. He can also exist even when time/space do not exist so he can survive the destruction of all.



Prove it.



> To quote from the an old Xenogears vs Digimon thread:



Xenogears already beat Digimon and Demonbane stalemates with him, so this is not helping you at all.

Btw when I say prove it you better bring some quotes/screen caps and things like that.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 11, 2011)

And while I wait for you to prove your claims I'm going to show you how he doesn't hold a candle to Demonbane:



> -Absolute Time/Space control at a multiversal level.



Not a problem:


*Spoiler*: __ 





> Elder God Demonbane
> Time control. Freezing, turning back, and fast-forwarding. Works on self or others, and can be controlled from any point in time.
> 
> As in if you somehow manage to blow it up it just revives itself from five minutes ago.





> Master Therion: Bow of Sirius!
> Liber Legis created a golden bow, and fired arrows.
> At certain point, the arrow separated into hundreds of arrows and tracked down Demonbane. Demonbane avoided them by increasing speed, but the golden arrows managed to follow and scratch Demonbane.
> Demonbane turned back, and dashed to Liber Legis. Before the impact, it reverted back to humanoid form and smacked spear at the enemy.
> ...





> Edgar: Hah! How is that!
> Al Azif: Not yet, Edgar!
> Demonbane noticed torn red left arm. At the palm, there was glowing board?
> *Like Demonbane did, Liber Legis? body regenerated through time reverse. Moreover, destruction spell of Lemuria Impact turned back into pure energy and flew backward through the spear.
> ...





> *Due to impact, nearby space was bent and creaking.
> The two deus machinas bounced back, and started gathering power again.
> As Liber Legis increased its size, Demonbane did the same. Both robots became much bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger?.
> When they clashed, the universe couldn?t handle the energy, but collapsed.
> ...


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## Big Bοss (Dec 11, 2011)

And continue:


*Spoiler*: __ 






> -Exists in all points of time and space aka Omnipresence.



I think that what I posted above is enough to show you this makes no difference whatsoever.



> -Defeated two multiversal Gods that were responsible for every universe. timeline, creation of data entities.



That created limited number of universes, now:



> Kishin Hisho Demonbane.
> When Demonbane uses the Shining Trapezohedron, this somehow sends out a call to the Elder Gods who show up in their Demonbane, and summon infinite Demonbanes from all worlds and times that ever were, are, ever will be, never were, aren't, and never will be.
> 
> They all Lemuria Impact the Clockwork Phantom together, destroying the tick-tock man's universe. Nyarlathotep promises he'll be back; This is after all the 414633277th time they've defeated him, it's nothing new in their endless fight (Nyarlathotep also professes his love for them, referring to them as his "beloved archnemesis").





> Where they reached was beyond super time and super space, at the top of super dimension… super super space time continuum.
> At there, Edgar and Al Azif watched.
> Infinite universes popped like bubbles.
> Inside infinite time loop like chain.
> ...



Yeah good they don't hold a candle either.



> -Could create VR versions of any Digimon which are more powerful than the original and have no weaknesses. Complete control of all time/space certainly helps in utilizing this power to the maximum.



Not going to help him at all.



> -As long as time/space exist, Zeed can revive himself indefinitely.



Guess what?



> They were in death universe.
> Due to entropy being absolutely parallel, it was completely calm in time and space. In this world, nothing could happen. Matter couldn’t exist. Energy didn’t exist. Demonbane and Liber Legis couldn’t exist. However, they didn’t exist, act, but continued to fight in a way that beings from normal universe could not comprehend.



Demonbane can exist even when he can't exist.



> -Creation and destruction of universes.



I think I made it clear this is nothing to Demonbane and unlike Zeed he can do it in the infinite scale.



> -At full power without his limiters off, his existence alone destroys everything. He can also exist even when time/space do not exist so he can survive the destruction of all.



Everything as in the limited universes Digimon has? yeah not going to matter against someone that is in the infinite range.



> You're going to need to explain this better. Seems to me the mecha is highly vulnerable if people can mess with the pilot to defeat the mecha.



Oh not really, it has more to do with the fact that Nya power is superior to his:



> Nyarlathotep: Oh my! This is getting nowhere. Then, I better make this cycle not happened from the start.
> ---Time is reversing?!
> Superior power over both Demonbane’s and Liber Legis’ watches.
> Someone was controlling super time that oversees super dimension outside of time and space.
> ...



And guess what? not even that could completely stop him, now take note this is control of time and space in a range Zeed doesn't have, unless off course you can prove it.




And that is why Zeed doesn't hold a candle to Demonbane.


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## Zatono (Dec 11, 2011)

If everything I'm reading here is accurate then I've gotta say that Zeed loses as well.

Though that whole 'there's a Demonbane for everything' type of thing seems like a NLF.


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## Big Bοss (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah, but that part can be disregarded and Demonbane would still have the power to create infinite copies of himself with broken abilities and powers like the quotes shows.


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## DarkLord Omega (Dec 11, 2011)

Want to make this clear that Zeed never defeated the two computers with his own powers, but only his minions


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## Calamity (Dec 11, 2011)

> Someone was controlling super time that oversees super dimension outside of time and space.


I didn't notice this before but anyways good work clearing up these points. If what the quotes say is true and Demonbane can manipulate the time/space which exists outside of time/space, then Zeed would lose.

My main concern was that you seemed to be disregarding Zeed's time/space abilities.


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## Calamity (Dec 11, 2011)

DarkLord Omega said:


> Want to make this clear that Zeed never defeated the two computers with his own powers, but only his minions



Plot device prevented him from using his full powers in his limited form and completely crushing ENIAC and ABC directly. ENIAC/ABC's destruction would have meant the destruction of the entire Digimon multiverse.

Therefore, he did it indirectly using those VR Digimon, which he himself created and controlled.

I hope it doesn't have to be added that without said Plot device, ENIAC/ABC would've been completely crushed.


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## dewses (Nov 18, 2013)

Wargod demonbane which is a lower than eldergod demonbane is fighting outer gods/great ones.. tanking everything they throw at him.. and each attack is capable of ripping through space and time.. he defeated them all and sealed them in the shining trapezohedron.. in eldergod form, even if you manipulate time and space.. eldergod demonbane will never be affected as shown with his fight against nyarlathotep when he is in his eldergod form.. it is because eldergod demonbane existed in every point of time in every dimension/space and existed before reality.. so even if how much you rewind time and change reality, he is always there and existed.. one more hax of demonbane is the lemuria impact which is has a power level of infinity and with his ability to call upon every demonbane from every dimension and points in time, existing or not existing.. the lemuria impact actually becomse infinity x infinity.. Omnipotence doesn't mean anything to EGD since he has the Shining trapezohedron which he can always use to seal omnipotents and even omnipresents.. I put Zeed in the level of nyarlathotep which is supposed to have absolute control of space and time and multiversal buster.. EGD defeated nyarlathotep 414633276 times (stated by nyarlathotep himself).. and the last time, EGD  just stared at him..


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## willyvereb (Nov 18, 2013)

Seriously, are you guys have the memory of a little chick or something?
Demonbaneverse is a megaverse.
You may argue about its actual size but this fact remains.
In the original game there are only a few hints of this but in Gunshin Kyoushuu and Kishin Hishou Demonbane this got expanded on considerably.

Also I doubt that Demonbane Athena Athenaum summoning means much.
More importantly we had characters in Kishin Hishou from different multiverses coming together.
Also the claim about Nyarlatothep being beaten by Kuro and Alazif trillions of times or something.
Each of these implying a scenario similar to the first Demonbane game.
So at least trillions of multiverses made and the infamous "super super dimension" which encompasses the space between all.
A space which appears to be limitless, IIRC.



Raidou Kuzunoha said:


> I need to play the game when I manage to get a connection that doesn't suck.


Well, you can try.
Demonbane has a good plot and like I said before it's mostly like a Super Robo show with some elements of mystery and Lovecraft (more like Derleth) put into it.

The problem is to say, more... visceral.
Demonbane is an eroge.
Not like FSN and Tsukihime. It's a definite eroge.
And its "selling points" are tentacles, forced intercourse and ... little girls.
The protagonist is also artificially made weak-willed to resist any sexual advance.
Which becomes rather uncomfortable when the said person looks like a prepubescent or barely teen girl.
Seriously...

The "sexual" elements only take up about 10% or less of the game but these are somewhat frequent still.
More than enough to only play this shit when you're alone and no-one watches the monitor.
Far more than enough to get you in jail if you get caught with this shit in Australia.

So I ask you, does it really worth?

Fortunately, both the Demonbane novels and the sequel Kishin Hishou Demonbane is lacking the seriously apostrophetized "erotic" elements.

The only problem that the novel only has an emberassingly bootleg translation and the Kishin Hishou game has nothing but some snippets translated by enthusiastic fans.


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## willyvereb (Nov 18, 2013)

OH, Damn.
I just noticed this is a necro.



I hope my warning for Raidou reached him through time and space and he didn't get into problems with the Canadian or Australian customs.


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