# Why Mihawk is top 2 in the Verse



## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 17, 2019)

Are you aware that, according to a plethora of different one piece sites and fandom, only a minuscule percentage of the aforementioned fandom believes that Mihawk is a top tier and in the upper echelon of the previously stated top tier? There are two widespread arguments used by the individuals that do not believe in Mihawk's strength and those are :
1.Vista stopped him at MF
2.His title applies only to swordsmanship and not the actual strength of the wileder, i.e. Shanks is stronger than Mihawk but not a better sword user.

In this essay, one will showcase why these arguments are at the uttermost level of absurdness and also provide detailed arguments for Mihawk being at the top top of the world.

Firstly, we will take a look at the scene from Marineford, i.e. ''Vista stopping Mihawk''. Mihawk, in his own words, is different from the brutes who would go all out when hunting a rabbit, exactly what Luffy was to Mihawk in Marineford. His apology to Shanks can be interpreted in the following manner, even if Mihawk is testing Luffy he does not know if he can constraint himself enough in order not to kill Luffy by accident.

A casual Mihawk pulled off an  island level feat in Marineford. Mihawk had no interest in the War, he was there as part of his duties as a Warlord. The only thing that somewhat piqued his interest was Luffy and his uncanny ability, the ability that was further emphasized when Vista came in to try to hold off Mihawk so that Luffy could escape. The most dangerous ability on the seas, making people into allies. Mihawk while ''fighting'' Vista was thinking about Luffy and yet Vista failed to put even a scratch on him. After Mihawk concluded that Luffy passed his test, he was no longer interested in pursuing him nor partaking in the war seriously. Distracted Mihawk was not even harmed by Vista, while if we look at other top tiers battling yonko commanders we come to a realization, Aokiji got a bloody lip, Kizaru was kicked back, Aokiji was kicked by Marco, Akainu was somewhat blitzed by Marco and Vista, to be fair Akainu was not injured by them, but one could argue that it was due to him using fs and shape shifting around the attack.

Moreover, all the Admirals defeated the commanders when they were distracted, Aokiji froze Jozu when he was looking at WB, Marco was hand cuffed when worrying about WB, and during Akainu's raid on the WBP the only one he managed to take down was Curiel, someone Moriah was fighting beforehand. To sum up, Mihawk not murking Vista on the spot stems from Mihawk's disinterest in the war, him confirming his theory, Luffy passing his test and of course the plot, you cannot have your main character die so early, evident as well when the 3 admirals could not kill Luffy in his encounter with them.

Secondly, Mihawk's title applying only to swordsmanship(ridiculous  notion  but still often used ). I will be much shorter in here. Databooks said that Mihawk and Vista have similar level of swordsmanship but Vista could not compete with Mihawk, meaning that it is not the swordsmanship that plays the only role in it. Fujitora, a df user, was called a blind swordsman, meaning that even using a df does not disqualify one from being a swordsman, Shiryu the same. Kuina, whose dream was to be the wss herself stated that her body is too weak, meaning that even if she were more skillful than Mihawk she would not be stronger. Finally, Mihawk's title is the world's strongest swordsman, not the world's most proficient sword user or the sort.

Now we got the part where I will present arguments as to why Mihawk is top 2 in the verse. Most people agree that Yonko and Admirals are at the top of One Piece world. Mihawk is, by virtue of his title, confirmed to be stronger than a yonko and an Admiral. Generally speaking, the Yonko are all in the same ball park, the Admirals as well. Some would try to say that Shanks and Fujitora are the weakest of their titles, but I am inclined to believe otherwise. Shanks is definitely as strong as Bm and current BB, likely stronger, and the marines are said to have grown in strength during the 2 year period, they have generally remained the same, except that they have gained two new admirals, which furthermore suggests that the new Admirals are at least on the same level as the old ones. In addition, Admiral is a strength based rank in the Navy and battles between Admirals are, as proven with the Akainu vs Aokiji fight, multi day long and extreme diff. Moreover, we have received implications of advanced haki usage and the effect that it possesses ( Luffy implying he could hurt Kaido with it) Mihawk's vc says that he waits for the day when a swordsman will appear and surpass his rival Shanks in order to present a challenge to him. Mihawk is the only other swordsman, whose blade is permanently black besides Ryuma, the man who was hailed as the sword god, implying the highest level of coa haki. Secondly, Mihawk's epithet was going to be clairvoyant implying that he has an enormous mastery over coo haki.

Owing to the aforementioned facts one could logically conclude that Mihawk has both versions of advanced haki. Mihawk's dc and lethality are likely at the top of the verse as well. Mihawk promised Zoro that he would wait for him at the top of the world, no matter how long it takes him to reach it. Vivre cards and databooks confirmed that Mihawk fought and beat any swordsman that he would come across until he was left with no worthy opponent. Moreover, they suggest that Mihawk is waiting for someone who will surpass his biggest rival, the yonko Shanks, in order to present a challenge to him, which would further imply that his battles with Shanks were a high diff for him. Mihawk is one of the three people to possess a World's strongest title, with the likes of Kaido and WB. During SBS Oda placed Mihawk and addressed him as a legendary figure, in the company of WB and Shanks. The only one who could be given the benefit of the doubt over Mihawk so far is Kaido, but even then one could argue that Kaido's hype comes from the vague statement of people saying that one ought to bet on him during a 1 vs 1.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 17, 2019)

To much to read but 

Mihawk>Shanks.

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## Major Lee Hung (Jun 17, 2019)

A phenomenal Mihawk up play post. Well done my friend. I almost don't want to leave a quote disagreeing with certain points because I feel that this will misconstrue things that I disagree with your post on the whole when I only have a few issues, but I will give a few minor points of contention here:



Light D Lamperouge said:


> The most dangerous ability on the seas ,making people into allies.Mihawk while ''fighting'' Vista was thinking about Luffy and yet Vista failed to put even a scratch on him.After Mihawk concluded that Luffy passed his test ,he was no longer interested in pursuing him nor partaking in the war seriously .Distracted Mihawk was not even harmed by Vista ,while if we look at other top tiers battling yonko commanders we come to a realization ,Aokiji got a bloody lip ,Kizaru was kicked back ,Aokiji was kicked by Marco ,Akainu was somewhat blitzed by Marco and Vista ,to be fair Akainu was not injured by them ,but one could argue that it was due to him using fs and shape shifting around the attack.



I'm not sure I'd call Mihawk "distracted" vs Vista, maybe "not fully focused." Might seem like a miniscule disagreement but it goes to show that I think I don't think that Mihawk was actually being distracted in the sense that his fighting ability was impaired by an outside factor, but rather he was just pondering things about Luffy while he just so happened to be sparring with Vista. He wasn't using his full strength or anything but yeah lol.

As for the Admirals vs commanders, I'm not sure I'd give Mihawk vs Vista the same framing as all the other instances. I'll go through them in the order that you listed them:

Jozu vs Aokiji:
Jozu snuck Aokiji after an instance of Aokiji trying to actually kill Whitebeard and putting Whitebeard in a pretty bad place, with his bisento frozen in place and four Ice Partisans pointed at his chest. Jozu is going to react pretty severly when his captain's life is put in danger like that.

Kizaru vs Marco:
Again an instance where Kizaru was literally trying to kill Whitebeard himself, and we can tell from the way that Marco shouts at Kizaru that he doesn't take kindly to his captain's life being threatened like this.

Akainu Vs Marco and Vista:
Ace had just had a massive hole punched into his chest. Plus, I don't know how that can be referred to as a blitz when their attack failed to do anything other than annoy Akainu, especially when Marco and Vista were trying to surprise attack him. To me "blitz" means something different but I don't want to stick too harshly on semantics lel.

Now, Mihawk vs Vista:
Mihawk was trying to kill Luffy, Vista stepped in to defend him. This fight lacks the emotional significance of trying to defend your captain from someone who poses a legitimate threat to them, Nor does it have the emotional significance of the characters trying to attack Akainu due to the rage of having watched Ace take a greivous wound. It's just Vista trying to protect someone he's been willing to protect.

Final point on this particular part, I don't think we should be praising Mihawk for demonstrating superiority over someone that his title by default puts him above. Again I get why it's necessary to defend Mihawk from Vista-downplayers, but given Mihawk's title and the facts that we know, Vista would perform better against Shanks than he did against Mihawk.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> you cannot have your main character die so early,evident as well when the 3 admirals *could not* kill Luffy in his encounter with them .



*Whoah whoah whoah *now..."Could Not" is strong language lol. I would rephrase that into "Didn't really try at all" lol. I think everyone should be in agreement though that actual top tiers could kill Luffy if they wanted to lol.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> Mihawk is the only other swordsman ,whose blade is permanently black besides Ryuma ,the man who was hailed as the sword god ,implying the highest level of coa haki .Secondly,Mihawk's epithet was going to be clairvoyant implying that he has an enormous mastery over coo haki .



I've addressed this argument in Discord before, but I'm not convinced that the Permanent Black Blade is actually stronger than the strongest forms of Haki. Don't want to go too in depth here, just wanted to put that on record here lmfao



Light D Lamperouge said:


> During SBS Oda placed Mihawk and addressed him as a legendary figure ,in the company of WB and Shanks.



I really dislike discussing subjective titles such as "legendary figure", it oftentimes ends in a battle of people attempting to argue why their subjective interpretations of why certain unsubstantial statements are more weighty than other unsubstantial statements.

In my opinion, "Greatest fighting force of the World Government" is a title with just as much meaning if not more so than simply being a "legendary figure" because Buggy himself was called a "Living Legend" but it takes actual legitimate strength recognized by people in power to be crowned the rank of Admiral, for example. Not that I want to argue titles, I'd rather argue feats which in my humble opinion, put at the very least the Colored Trio above Mihawk. Feats are measurable displays of power (which while granted, are subject to interpretation in their own way) are still a much better method of verifying a character's strength level than by subjective hype statements which can be argued until everyone is blue in the face but won't actually get anywhere.

*TL;DR
*
All in all good, post, though Mihawk is still weaker than characters like Kaido, Teach, Admirals, Dragon. Imho


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## barreltheif (Jun 17, 2019)

You're right that Kaido is the only character who is confirmed to be stronger than Mihawk. But Im is very likely to be stronger (probably a lot stronger), and Teach and Dragon have pretty good chances as well. (Teach will be stronger in the next arc; the question is just whether he's going to grow a lot before then.)


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## Shuyaku99 (Jun 17, 2019)

Pure facts. It's quite obvious in the Vista clash that Mihawk can't be bothered to fight him seriously, as he is paying attention to Luffy and crushing on him. Vista is no threat to a serious Mihawk who can decapitate him with mountain+ level casual slashes.

As mentionned we already have enough proof from various stuff that confirms Mihawk > Shanks, i don't understand how this is a debate let alone how Shanks is superior to Mihawk with his "haki beams". Mihawk is EOS Zoro's goal, he is no mere commander whom Zoro can already mid diff such as trashcan Cracker.

For now i have Kaido, Blackbeard and Akainu a bit above him. Dragon is a huge maybe but Mihawk gets the BOF. He is a high top tier.

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## Gotenks92 (Jun 17, 2019)

excluding an old legend
Kaido
Dragon
Blackbeard
Akainu
Shanks/Mihawk

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## barreltheif (Jun 17, 2019)

I can't really see Akainu being above Mihawk. That would pretty much mean that the color trio is stronger than Shanks, and probably also Big Mom and maybe Teach. I never got the impression that the yonkou (minus WB/Kaido) are weaker than the admirals.

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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 17, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> You're right that Kaido is the only character who is confirmed to be stronger than Mihawk. But Im is very likely to be stronger (probably a lot stronger), and Teach and Dragon have pretty good chances as well. (Teach will be stronger in the next arc; the question is just whether he's going to grow a lot before then.)


Yeah ,Kaido so far gets the benefit of the doubt against everyone ,including Mihawk.Im and Dragon are unknown ,at least for Dragon you can argue that he is the revo leader and the son of Garp and father of Luffy and the world's most wanted man  ,but Im is too much of an unknown ,he could be  the strongest or he could end up like Spandam.I do not think current Teach is there yet ,I still see him as the weakest Yonko ,of course come Eos he will surpass all of them but for now no imo .


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## Xebec (Jun 17, 2019)



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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 17, 2019)

Wow what a well constructed rebuttal of everything I have said .You seem to be really good at debating ,have you tried to make a career out of it ? 
Now ,if there are points which you would like to refute please state them ,and I promise I shall do my best to try to dumb them down enough so that you are able to understand them ,assuming that you do possess the ability to read ,but even if that is not the case worry not young padawan I shall try to teach you that as well .

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## KiriNigiri (Jun 17, 2019)

Amazing retort.

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Jun 18, 2019)

While I personally don’t think Mihawk is #2 (I think that’s Akainu), he’s more likely to be #2 than any other top tier. Only Kaido, Mihawk, and Akainu are confirmed to be over other top tiers, but I have a feeling Oda is gonna make Akainu slightly stronger than Mihawk.

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## Flame (Jun 18, 2019)

Bruh you could've arranged it better. Not gonna read it  

Liked the post tho, Mihawk is indeed that strong. Well done

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## Hades92 (Jun 18, 2019)

Mihawk is top 1 in fact...WSS >> WSM/WSC/PK any day


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## Geralt-Singh (Jun 18, 2019)

I have Kaido / Sakazuki / Blackbeard stronger than him with Shanks being his equal

Mihawk being top 5 looks fine to me

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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

@Light D Lamperouge  Amazing essay man, I've always had Mihawk in top 5, with Kaido and Akainu slightly above him, I dunno about Dragon, and current BB is not ready yet.

I've seen that here is a  common thing replaying  with one liner   or give the disagree rating  instead of trying to refute a topic.

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## Xebec (Jun 18, 2019)

KiriNigiri said:


> Amazing retort.


I know cause it's all that's needed for such stupidity

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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Malos said:


> I know cause it's all that's needed for such stupidity



Argues otherwise what you say is worth less than zero.

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## Xebec (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Wow what a well constructed rebuttal of everything I have said .You seem to be really good at debating ,have you tried to make a career out of it ?
> Now ,if there are points which you would like to refute please state them ,and I promise I shall do my best to try to dumb them down enough so that you are able to understand them ,assuming that you do possess the ability to read ,but even if that is not the case worry not young padawan I shall try to teach you that as well .



Ok then let's use Mihawk fan "logic"

DFless Blackbeard is Yonko level cause he scarred Shanks, Mihawk never scarred Shanks
Vista is Yonko level cause he clashed with Mihawk
Crocodile is Yonko level cause he clashed with Mihawk

Unlike you i read the manga and the manga says he isn't Yonko level in fact at no point has it ever even been hinted at it. Also Yonko are the four strongest pirates in the manga, that's a canon fact, Mihawk has never been mentioned alongside them when their power is hyped.

Are all Mihawk fans so delusional? Most are Zoro fans too i've noticed, that sure explains a lot.

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Jun 18, 2019)

Malos said:


> Ok then let's use Mihawk fan "logic"
> 
> DFless Blackbeard is Yonko level cause he scarred Shanks, Mihawk never scarred Shanks
> Vista is Yonko level cause he clashed with Mihawk
> ...



Mihawk is the World’s Strongest Swordsman. Shanks and Fujitora are swordsmen. Mihawk has never been pushed or injured in a clash so his feats don’t contradict his portrayal.

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## Djomla (Jun 18, 2019)

He is not even top 10.


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## Mr. Good vibes (Jun 18, 2019)

Well he is IM's younger brother so it checks out.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Are you aware that ,according to a plethora of different one piece sites and fandom ,only a minuscule percentage of the aforementioned fandom believes that Mihawk is a top tier and in the upper echelon of the previously stated top tier ? There are two widespread arguments used by the individuals that do not believe in Mihawk's strength and those are :
> 1.Vista stopped him at MF
> 2.His title applies only to swordsmanship and not the actual strength of the wileder ,i.e. Shanks is stronger than Mihawk but not a better sword user.
> In this essay ,one will showcase why these arguments are at the uttermost level of absurdness and also provide detailed arguments for Mihawk being at the top top of the world .
> ...


Pro tip ... use paragraphs!

There is Kaido, there was WB and there is  Rafter BB, Raftel Luffy and Akainu!

If you want title there are other 3 World, all with more relevance to the story!

SO WWS has 0.1 % to be #2 but whatever enjoy ... do you guys have any other subject to create other than the same generic OJ PL extravaganza?

I would agree to #1 spot for him after all with all his grand feats against multiple top tiers are way less than, for example, Akainu that defeated another top tier both been extremely close to each other.

So we already have K*aido, Akainu and Aokiji already would put him at #4*, if BB wants to kill WSS he will kill him so yet another one etc.  So stretching WSS is #5,

Luffy after Raftel will be stronger then several if not all of these guys so he is then in  #5 and  I don't see Zoro defeating WSS before Raftel so now he *is #6 .*..

This is all plot-relevant!

And took 5min ... and it has paragraphs at least.

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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> WSS>Shanks and thats canon


Bruh check again WSS > Kaido!


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## Steven (Jun 18, 2019)

QMS said:


> Bruh check again WSS > Kaido!


Club=Sword


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## Hades92 (Jun 18, 2019)

Djomla said:


> He is not even top 10.


he is in top 10...that is for sure.


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## Djomla (Jun 18, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> he is in top 10...that is for sure.



Nope.

Equal to Shanks who lost arm to opponent weaker than chapter 1 Luffy
His strongest slash going for Edward's head was made to look pathetic by Jozu who stopped it effortlessly
Is more of less equal to Vista

So, unless Oda retconed him, he is not top 10.


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## Hades92 (Jun 18, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Club=Sword


problem is WSC > WSS...

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## Seraphoenix (Jun 18, 2019)

You need to learn to format your posts properly. Otherwise it looks like a stream of consciousness post. 

I can't get on board with the Shanks swordsman headcanon. 

I do like that you brought that Issho panel. It shows that someone who is barely stronger than Vista (Mihawk)  is also stronger than an admiral. Once again confirming that Admirals are closer to Yonkou commanders than Yonkou themselves. 

Even if we accept that Shanks is a swordsman, Mihawk seeing him as the only benchmark confirms Shanks> Fujitora. Fuji is probably just as strong as Akainu btw. Same design etc.


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## Corax (Jun 18, 2019)

If he is Zoro's final benchmark in theory he can be in top 2,but very likely that Zoro's and Luffy's EOS opponents will be different. May be Im and one of Gorosei (or even all of them).


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## Aaron Tōshiro (Jun 18, 2019)

Mihawk is barely top 10 let alone top 2


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## Law (Jun 18, 2019)

Not gonna read that wall of text but thumbs for the effort.

These two are inseparable, combat wise. If one turns out to be stronger, the difference would be similar to that of Akainu and Kuzan. These 4 are in my top 5.


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## Seraphoenix (Jun 18, 2019)

Law said:


> Not gonna read that wall of text but thumbs for the effort.
> 
> These two are inseparable, combat wise. If one turns out to be stronger, the difference would be similar to that of Akainu and Kuzan. These 4 are in my top 5.



Which 2 and 4 are you talking about?


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

Malos said:


> Ok then let's use Mihawk fan "logic"
> 
> DFless Blackbeard is Yonko level cause he scarred Shanks, Mihawk never scarred Shanks
> Vista is Yonko level cause he clashed with Mihawk
> ...


Wow you do know how to read, I mean the basics at least. Excellent, and you have even made a cute little post. Very nice and to tell you the truth it is more than I expected.

No indication of when that happened, likely somewhere at the start of their respective pirate  careers. Moreover, fodder marines scarred WB and injured him, do you want to say that fodder marines =WB? Furthermore, scarring does not mean defeating. In addition, Shanks was a Yonko by the time he dueled Mihawk. That kind of ''logic'', I cannot think of a better word now, is at the utmost level of absurdness, had you actually read even a minuscule portion of what I wrote you would have been able to see the Vista situation. Moreover, dueling and fighting is not equated with clashing. Should we follow your vacuous "logic" we would then scale Jozu, Marco, Vista, Jimbei to Admiral level now would we not?

Actually the proper translation of what Garp says, I know you are going by that, is that they are the four most influential pirates in the NW, and of course they would be more influential than Mihawk, they have crews, islands, territories, alliances. They are some of the strongest pirates, and characters overall, but simply Mihawk is stronger than some of them. Moreover,by making a Yonko and an Admiral swordsmen and by giving Mihawk the WSS titles serves as a means of showcasing Mihawk's portrayal and where he stands among top tiers. If you think that Mihawk waiting for someone who will surpass Shanks  in order to present a challenge to him, Mihawk having a black blade while Shanks does not, Mihawk calling Shanks a one arm has been, Mihawk having the WSS title after their duels is not a sign of Mihawk being stronger, then I guess we will have to work more on your ability to read and connect certain dots, which are extremely easy to connect here, but alas, this is far more than I expected of you so kudos, good job.

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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

That is too much to read. 
Reminds me of old nostalgia. Sword wanking it seems back in business. You are entitled to your opinion of course even though I think you are thoroughly wrong. 
Mihawk does not have feats to be above Akainu(or Aokiji). Nor he has hype to be above Blackbeard or Dragon. To put him above those without any actual feats to back it up is pure fanboyism. All Mihawk's hype does is prove that he is indeed a Top tier but that is all it does. One needs solid feats to get above another Top tier. 
So yeah until I get those actual feats that backs up these claims he is not above other characters. Compared to other Top tiers his feats are abysmal right now. His portyal is frankly worse than that off Big Mom. MF was just not good for Mihawk's overall portrayal. 
P. S. : He is also not Zoro's final fight by the way. That is someone from BB Pirates. Luffy fights Captain and Zoro fights FM. That is how it goes. Unless of course some one actually is dumb enough to believe that Mihawk is more important than One Piece itself and for some retarded reason we are getting Zoro Vs Mihawk fight after Final War.

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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> That is too much to read.
> Reminds me of old nostalgia. Sword wanking it seems back in business. You are entitled to your opinion of course even though I think you are thoroughly wrong.
> Mihawk does not have feats to be above Akainu(or Aokiji). Nor he has hype to be above Blackbeard or Dragon. To put him above those without any actual feats to back it up is pure fanboyism. All Mihawk's hype does is prove that he is indeed a Top tier but that is all it does. One needs solid feats to get above another Top tier.
> So yeah until I get those actual feats that backs up these claims he is not above other characters. Compared to other Top tiers his feats are abysmal right now. His portyal is frankly worse than that off Big Mom. MF was just not good for Mihawk's overall portrayal.
> P. S. : He is also not Zoro's final fight by the way. That is someone from BB Pirates. Luffy fights Captain and Zoro fights FM. That is how it goes. Unless of course some one actually is dumb enough to believe that Mihawk is more important than One Piece itself and for some retarded reason we are getting Zoro Vs Mihawk fight after Final War.



For the same retarded reason Nami will probably achieve her dream after Raftel, or chopper too, Brook also...
But hey are their dream more important than OP ?

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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Jun 18, 2019)

Akainu would BBQ Mihawk.

He'sdefinitely in the Top 10 though.

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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

Sade said:


> For the same retarded reason Nami will probably achieve her dream after Raftel, or chopper too, Brook also...


At least make an effort . 
Those dreams are not fights. They can be shown in epilogue in panel or two. 
Unless you think Zoro Vs Mihawk does not need more than a single chapter. Then it is fine by me.  
There is absolutely nothing more important than One Piece. When war over it ends so does manga. Best we are getting is a short epilogue.
Jesus are we actually having fans dumb enough to think there would be an arc after main story of One Piece ends just solely for sake of Mihawk? 
It is one thing to love a character. It is completely another to get crazy over it.


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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> At least make an effort.
> Those dreams are not fights. They can be shown in epilogue in panel or two.
> Unless you think Zoro Vs Mihawk does not need more than a single chapter. Then it is fine by me.
> There is absolutely nothing more important than One Piece. When war over it's ends so does mama manga. Best we are getting is a short epilogue.



You can draw a good fight even with only 3/4 chapters I don't see the problem.
Zoro has already put Luffy dream above everything so some of the SH will  probably achieve their dreams after Raftel, and there is nothing wrong on that.


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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

Sade said:


> You can draw a good fight even with only 3/4 chapters I don't see the problem.
> Zoro has already put Luffy dream before everything so some of the SH will achieve their dreams after Raftel.


There is everything wrong in what you are arguing from story tellers perspective. 
Having Zoro Vs Mihawk after Blackbeard, Akainu, Im, Void Century and freaking One Piece(namesake of manga) literally means Mihawk was somehow more important than all of them combined when it couldn't be more false. 
Exactly because of this kind of behavior Mihawk and Zoro fanboys(not normal fans) are hated worldwide . Somehow other characters and their stories becomes pointless for them in favor of Zoro/Mihawk.
Luffy is the MC of this manga and the last fight that will ever happen in this manga will be his. You are a gone case(especially given Oda's extremely obvious Luffy love) if you think anything other is happening. That is exactly how it happens in every arc. Luffy's fight ends the arc. Thus Luffy's fight  will also end the manga too. 
Zoro is not MC nor Mihawk is the Final Villain. While they both are very important characters this manga is not about them.
After Final War there will be an epilogue that will show us snippets of Strawhats and friends. Dreams of some strawhats will be shown here because it takes only one panel to show them instead of multiple chapters. We are not randomly getting an entire arc after Final War. There is reason why it is called final.

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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> Exactly because of this kind of behavior Mihawk and Zoro fanboys(not normal fans) are hated worldwide .



Stopped reading after that...

Tell me when Nami will achieve her dream ? Brook? you don't need freaking new arc to show their dream.

There is no EoS potential fight for Zoro with the same relevance and weight of Mihawk vs Zoro. ( for what we know now).

BB pirates bar Teach himself are irrelevant.

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## Mob (Jun 18, 2019)

Mihawk vs Zoro just isn't going to happen, they are friends now, Mihawk is getting axed by BB pirates just like Shanks


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

QMS said:


> Pro tip ... use paragraphs!
> 
> There is Kaido, there was WB and there is  Rafter BB, Raftel Luffy and Akainu!
> 
> ...


Andrew Andrew Andrew, please, basic reading comprehension and understanding, nothing hard to do.

There IS Kaido and there is AKainu, there WAS WB and there WILL BE Raftel BB and Rafter Luffy. Moreover, this is a list as of this moment, which should have been evident with the exclusion of WB, prime WB, Roger, Prime Garp etc.

Actually my dear Andrew, there are four  more, one may not be official, but one could argue that it is the most important one plot-wise. World's strongest man, world's strongest creature, world's strongest swordsman, world's most wanted man, world's freest man. Now, determining which one of these carries more weight is subjective and could henceforth result in circular repetition. However, two of the aforementioned titles are personal goals of the members of the strawhat crew, thus one could argue that they indeed possess the most value plot-wise.

By virtue of his title and the fact that he possess it after dueling with the Yonko Shanks, one can logically conclude that Mihawk was the victor in their battle, thus granting him a feat of defeating a top tier. Moreover, as you have said yourself with the implication of Akainu and Aokiji, who are Admirals and extremely close, one could henceforth conclude that Admiral is a strength based rank and that all of the admirals have extreme diff battles between themselves. Furthermore, Fujitora a new Admiral, a swordsman, as evident in the panel I posted, is an extreme diff battle for other Admirals. Moreover, being a swordsman, a confirmed swordsman, he falls behind Mihawk, who reigns supreme above all other swordsmen in both name and actuality. In addition, the fact that Mihawk is still waiting for someone to surpass Shanks so as to be able to present a challenge to him points to the fact that Fujitora is not on that level, meaning that he at the very best gives Mihawk a high diff fight. Regarding your final point about BB killing him just because you think so without providing any semblance of evidence is absurd and therefore I shall not bother myself with it.


Once again my dear Andrew, basic reading comprehension and understanding, the list is as of this moment, no one here is arguing that Mihawk will remain top 2 in the verse, it would be foolish to try that. In addition, Luffy after Raftel, Zoro defeating MIhawk, Raftel BB are all character version we have yet to see and will appear down the line, thus they are irrelevant for this discussion.

There you go, I must admit that this did take me around 20 minutes to write, but it at least possesses coherent and well-developed paragraphs. Nonetheless, I would like to express my gratitude and sincerely thank you for at least trying to refute some points, no matter how weak your rebuttal was.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

Sade said:


> Stopped reading after that...


So you don't read entire post and then ask stupid questions like this


> Tell me when Nami will achieve her dream ? Brook? you don't need freaking new arc to show their dream.


that I have already answered.  
Stop wasting my time if all you are going to regurgitate same shit over and over again. The reason I am bothering to respond you is because I think you are an actual genuine poster with opinions instead of trolls who siegeing OL since last week. Please don't prove me wrong. 
By not replying to everything I post is also the indicator that you don't actually have any arguments hence you are ignoring them. 


> There is no EoS potential fight for Zoro with the same relevance and weight of Mihawk vs Zoro. ( for what we know now).


Then you lack imagination. 
Not to mention even Mihawk isn't 'bad guy' anymore. He is Zoro's teacher. They are friends now. They is no animosity between them. 
Zoro having final fight with the man who taught him everything is Zoro cheating on his goal. That is equivalent of Luffy fighting with Rayleigh for One Piece. I have no interest in it. I would like to have Zoro's final fight bloody and passionate.


> BB pirates bar Teach himslef are irrelevant.


That is your opinion and a very wrong one at that. Just exactly how do you go on saying that there are no EoS potential rivals for Zoro and then immediately dismiss those who you don't like? 
Don't you see the bias in here? 
Blackbeard is The Final Villain of this manga. An evil D. Only man known to have two DFs. Of course his crew is going to be damned important. They are counter parts of Strawhats. 
Are we really reading the same manga?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Geralt-Singh (Jun 18, 2019)

Imagine believing that the WSS will be off paneled by a random FM who has no history with Zoro or anyone relevant


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## Law (Jun 18, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Which 2 and 4 are you talking about?


Shanks/Mihawk, Kaido, Akainu, Kuzan & Blackbeard imo the top 5 strongest in that order, excluding Imu.


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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Andrew Andrew Andrew ,please ,basic reading comprehension and understanding ,nothing hard to do .
> 
> There IS Kaido and AKainu ,there WAS WB and there WILL BE Raftel BB and Rafter Luffy. Moreover, this is a list as of this moment ,which should have been evident with the exclusion of WB ,prime WB ,Roger ,Prime Garp etc.
> 
> ...


Have anyone ever told you what an condenseding asshole you are? 
Here is suggestion. Don't use name of guy with whom you are debating four times in a row. 
What was that Andrew Andrew Andrew shit? One of the most cringeworthy shit I have ever read. 
Maybe also don't act like you have all the facts when your entire post is based on conjecture after conjecture. Nobody likes arrogant people.


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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> Nobody likes arrogant people.



Lol coming from you 
the audacity

Reactions: Like 3


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## Steven (Jun 18, 2019)

Since when is "world's freest man" a titel?


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Andrew Andrew Andrew ,please ,basic reading comprehension and understanding ,nothing hard to do .
> 
> There IS Kaido and AKainu ,there WAS WB and there WILL BE Raftel BB and Rafter Luffy. Moreover, this is a list as of this moment ,which should have been evident with the exclusion of WB ,prime WB ,Roger ,Prime Garp etc.
> 
> ...


Advice #2 less is more;

Advice number Topic/Yu/ Zboy number inser it here, perma banned Z boy et, attacking someone with a name no  one cares makes your  all text meaningless;

Advice number two at less if you want to be arrogant, check your text .


Adivce number next number, use something original, you already started with the same copy paste that Zoro is important!

 The rest is the same noting to debate, but enjoy this forum!


A lot of thext, the same concept WSS is above Shank and WSS is the dream of Zoro and )!

Prove that WSS is above any top tier first,

WSS is  stronger then Shanks and Shanks is a Yonko so what Kaido is above Shanks and WSS so Yonko are not the same level;

Akainu is above Aokiji the same!

So please provide the feats of WSS and then we talk, WSS is not important for the power structure, Dragon, Kaido, Akainu are so please mister arrogant, I know I am right, spare us the BS !

I had more to debate with mister LS the this !


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Since when is "world's freest man" a titel?


In a thread that WSS is #2 because it is related with Zoro you ask such a question ).


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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

Sade said:


> Lol coming from you
> the audacity


So no actual arguments? 
I accept your concession. 
I did waste lot of time making those to you because I thought you were genuine in your posting. It seems I was mistaken.


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## Amol (Jun 18, 2019)

That was interesting. It has been long time since I was motivated enough to make tldr arguments in OL at least. 
If nothing else this immigration crisis is at least bringing activity in section even if it is just repeat of past .  
I am suddenly missing lot of old timers. This isn't the first Mihawk debate after all. After a while same thing gets repeat over and over again within years. Just the names who are making those arguments changes. 'Arguments' themselves remains the same. 
I am gonna go and hunt for Universal Shanks Vs Mihawk thread.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Also, let me put some PL into your narration:

WSS has nothing to do with power balance: Pirates vs Marines;
WSS will never be stronger than the strongest of each faction: Marines: Akainu, Pirates: Kaido now, BB later, Revo: Dragon, WG: IM sama;


Zoro is Main cast not MC and the MC'opponents from the final stages will be above Zoro's WSS opponent so Akainu, Im and BB are safe for this BS that you narrate, Kaido is the strongest WB was the strongest before!

So in any timeline :

When WB was not sick: WB, Kaido , Akainu , Im and Dragon surpass in importance the WSS

And now BB , Kaido, Akainu , Dragon and Im still surpass him in importance soon Luffy and maybe Kid join them


So narrative wise the WSS has no place to be above those guys;

So mister arrogance you have no manga fact and WSS BS title works only on sword men and swordmen are a minority into the top tiers ...

*Should we talk hype wise and feats wise ???


And this still took me less than 10 min and with less suppositions they yours!*

@mods can we close the thread we got a winner here !


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

QMS said:


> Advice #2 less is more;
> 
> Advice number Topic/Yu/ Zboy number inser it here, perma banned Z boy et, attacking someone with a name no  one cares makes your  all text meaningless;
> 
> ...


So no arguments ,it is ok I accept your concession.

Judging by the way you frame your texts you must think I am a delusional Zoro fanboy ,which sadly for you is not the case.

Here you do make a point,there is nothing to debate because you fail to provide any argument.

Wss proves that Mihawk is above Shanks and Fujitora ,your next paragraph is basically you contradicting yourself,however I shall answer it ,Kaido judging by his hype is above everyone else,so him being above Shanks is expected .

I already explained that Admiral is a strength based rank ,please try to read what I write .

You wish for me to provide feats for a character that we have yet to see engaged in a serious battle ,I think even you can understand how absurd that is .Moreover , you claim that WSS is not important for power structure and scaling due to not having any feats ,or very few at the moment ,but then say that Dragon,an entirely featless character is important for power structure,please try not to contradict yourself ,it is not fun like that.And of course located at the end the infamous phrase that people who fail to counter an argument or provide even a semblance of an argument ''I know I am right'' .

Thank you ,I will enjoy staying at this forum .


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> Jesus are we actually having fans dumb enough to think there would be an arc after main story of One Piece ends just solely for sake of Mihawk?
> It is one thing to love a character. It is completely another to get crazy over it.


There will never be an arc for WSS, look at the content on the manga for now .
An arc needs  Luffy to fight someone and if this is EOS content he will fight who  ?

Zoro will fight WSS after Luffy defeats BB and is above BB and 2 levels above WSS .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Etherborn (Jun 18, 2019)

I'm not convinced Mihawk will be Zoro's final fight anymore. That did seem like it would be the case before the timeskip, but now that Zoro's been trained by the guy it sort of seems like he's compromised the integrity of that ambition. 

That was the entire reason why he didn't ask for Mihawk to train him until he found out what happened to Luffy at Marineford. He didn't _want_ to be trained by the person he was trying to surpass, but he felt that protecting the crew and helping Luffy achieve his dream was a higher priority at that point than beating Mihawk, as confirmed by the man himself. 

I can't really imagine Zoro walking up to Mihawk at the end of the series and saying, "I've finally surpassed you!" when Mihawk's response would likely be, "I know, I trained you to do it you idiot."

If they do even have a fight at this point, I can't see it being anything more than a friendly bout, or something similar to what Luffy and Shanks would have. In other words, not a fight to the death, which inevitably lowers tension and makes it feel like there's less on the line.

That's not to say they won't have their fight. They might, but then again, they might not. To be honest, people act far too sure when they discuss who the final villains will be. Mangaka have a history of proving us wrong, and judging from how Oda has been introducing new concepts such as the Empty Throne and new villains such as Im, coupled with the fact that we still don't know what happened in the Void Century or what the hell One Piece is...anything could happen at the end of the series. 

The storytelling is not isolated from the fights; the fights revolve around the storytelling. So we can't forecast the fights with any greater certainty than we can the plot. 

It's fine to make predictions, but let's not act like we know exactly how the series will play out at this point. That's just delusional.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> So no arguments ,it is ok I accept your concession.


Mate for no arguments there is no counter argument!


Light D Lamperouge said:


> Judging by the way you frame your texts you must think I am a delusional Zoro fanboy ,which sadly for you is not the case.


Not really, I don't care, I just copied your style nothing more, nothing less Topic!



Light D Lamperouge said:


> Here you do make a point,*there is nothing to debate *because you fail to provide any argument.


So finaly you got it, you made no point in the first place, so debating none existent point are a fool's errand.

Arguments for conjunctions, no thank you next!



Light D Lamperouge said:


> You wish for me to provide feats for a character that we have yet to see engaged in a serious battle ,I think even you can understand how absurd that is .Moreover , you claim that WSS is not important for power structure and scaling due to not having any feats ,or very few at the moment ,but then say that Dragon,an entirely featless character is important for power structure,please try not to contradict yourself ,it is not fun like that.And of course located at the end the infamous phrase that people who fail to counter an argument or provide even a semblance of an argument ''I know I am right'' .


But you have use them , MF has feats .

I don't contradict myself mate, you have no reading skill, WSS has no importance for Pirates vs Marines then the theme of the manga.

Yes, you are right that you have no argument or feat or hype for WSS to be above the strongest of the 3 strongest organizations:

Mate the OP world is ruled by the WG, the marines are their soldiers so IM and Akainu are a safe bet to be above your WSS, Akainu even has feats over a top tier , your boy never did that, he is WSS because Shanks lost an arm GG, Revo the ones that oppose the WG Dragon the father of MC and the son of the strongest ever marine, LOL his hype is above WSS,

Kaido is above WSS!

So tell me what feats, hype or portrait does WSS have above these gents ??

BB will never lose to WSS because as you said he is the end goal for the MC not a member of the main cast so BB will always be put above!


Anyone can do what you did but it still is a BS wall of text and nothing more !

Try facts next and gent  WSS has feats Dragon doe not but Dragon has more hype being related to 2 of the strongest dudes ever and him attacking the WG but hey WSS is above because ...

And please don't quote me again to say that I have no argument, first look at your narration for that  Yu-san!


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> Have anyone ever told you what an condenseding asshole you are?
> Here is suggestion. Don't use name of guy with whom you are debating four times in a row.
> What was that Andrew Andrew Andrew shit? One of the most cringeworthy shit I have ever read.
> Maybe also don't act like you have all the facts when your entire post is based on conjecture after conjecture. Nobody likes arrogant people.


No, no one has yet, maybe they called me a condescending  asshole, but this is the first time someone called me a condenseding asshole.

Nice suggestion, but not needed here, Andrew Andrew Andrew is THREE times (3) in a row, however I shall bear this in mind for forthcoming opportunities. Thank you.

I am aware of the fact that no one likes arrogant people hence I am not trying to be arrogant. Thank you for the advice.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Nice suggestion ,but not needed here ,Andrew Andrew Andrew* is THREE times (3) in a row* ,however I shall bear this in mind for forthcoming opportunities.Thank you .


This is arrogance and condescending mate ...



Also implying that your suppositions are right is another mark of arrogance, maybe if you try to tell why those are correct some would agree with you but meh!


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Since when is "world's freest man" a titel?


Never, no one is suggesting that World's freest man is a titel.Titel is a town located in Serbia,however World's freest man could unofficially be a title ,as we have seen Luffy associate it with the PK title.The first part of this is me joking ,of course I am aware that you misspelled it ,so I offer my apologies in advance should it cause you discomfort,and I am open to debate to see if such a thing could unofficially be labeled a title.



QMS said:


> This is arrogance and condescending mate ...
> 
> 
> 
> Also implying that your suppositions are right is another mark of arrogance, maybe if you try to tell why those are correct some would agree with you but meh!


I fail to see how that could be perceived as arrogance , I have thanked and promised to adhere to the advice I was provided, but thank you for the advice as well .

Nowhere am I implying that I am 100 percent correct, moreover I am open minded and ready to engage in a debate and see the other side as well and change my view, all that is needed is to properly address what I wrote and provide counter arguments or try to point out what might be wrong and what could be changed. Thank you for your time and for a plethora of responses.


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## Etherborn (Jun 18, 2019)

Keep it civil guys. When threads get heated they also get locked.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Nowhere am I implying that I am 100 percent correct, moreover I am open-minded and ready to engage in a debate and see the other side as well and change my view, all that is needed is to properly address what I wrote and provide counter arguments or try to point out what might be wrong and what could be changed.Thank you for your time and for a plethora of responses.



First of all, what you provided has no base!

WSS has no feat to be above any top tier;

Start with that, also his portrait is to be above all swordsmen, only 2 top tier are in that group:

Shanks is not the strongest Yonko;
Fuji is possible the weakest Admiral;


You need to provide solid evidence for WSS to be above Akainu, BB, Kaido, Dragon.

No one is saying that those are above WSS but you are the one that says he is above them bar Kaido so provide the solid evidence, Zoro' end goal is not stronger than Luffy' PK opponent, Luffy's last War Opponent  Akainu or IM the leader of WG or Dragon the one that is opposing the WG!



Etherborn said:


> Keep it civil guys. When threads get heated they also get locked.


I am done here !


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jun 18, 2019)

QMS said:


> Meh ... dude are you serious, not seeing your style of debating, it has arrogance and condescending in every sentence!
> 
> @Acnologia  good luck ...
> 
> ...


Are you serious right now, can you not see the part where I state that I am joking?

Yes, Titel is a town, google it.

Moreover, there can be a comma before however and after however, I could have placed one after however but I did not feel the need to do so, and to show you that I am not condescending I will not address your grammar, as I have not done in the previous posts as well. But, for you to feel the need to criticize me like this and attack me really shows how much you dislike me, and here I thought we would be buddies. Thank you once again.


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## Ren. (Jun 18, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Are you serious right now, can you not see the part where I state that I am joking?
> 
> Yes , Titel is a town , google it.
> 
> Moreover, there can be a comma before however and after however, I could have placed one after however but I did not feel the need to do so, and to show you that I am not condescending I will not address your grammar, as I have not done in the previous posts as well . But, for you to feel the need to criticize me like this and attack me really shows how much you dislike me, and here I thought we would be buddies.Thank you once again.


LOL , mate  I am joking ...

I know about that LOL!

Address it, I can do that myself ...

It was mean from my side so I wanted to show you that there were no grammatical errors but the text was not perfect.

For example, I also have the habit of putting the space on the wrong side or not putting it at all.

After period and comma, there is always space not before but after the symbols Zehaha!

 Also, forget the debate I don't really care about the subject .


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 18, 2019)

Sade said:


> BB pirates bar Teach himself are irrelevant.


this x1000

BBs *will *suck donkey dick compared to Teaches portrayal & treatment


anyone who is hyping them up, is in for a major hype train crash

Shiryuu will be CoO training before facing Gandhi and Mihawk

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Jun 18, 2019)

Why would Mihawk training Zoro effect their chances to fight EoS? Zoro didn’t have a grudge against Mihawk when he set out to find him so there was never any antagonism in their relationship...plus “student surpassing the master” is an old trope in Asia.


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## Sade (Jun 18, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> this x1000
> 
> BBs *will *suck donkey dick compared to Teaches portrayal & treatment
> 
> ...



Man I think exactly like you...
Gandhi hype me, never understimate the Old dudes in manga

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hades92 (Jun 18, 2019)

where exactly people would have put Mihawk in manga based on his MF feats if he has no WSS title ...high tier or top tier??


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 18, 2019)

Mob said:


> Mihawk is getting axed by BB pirates just like Shanks


Mihawk/Shanks can solo all of BB pirates combined (bar Teach)


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## Mob (Jun 18, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk/Shanks can solo all of BB pirates combined (bar Teach)


I based my post on the fact that Shichibukai system is definitely going down, so Mihawk wont be called to participate in the final war and like Amol already pointed above every single arc so far ended with Luffy fight, there is no way in hell Zoro and Mihawk would get the last fight of this series if we take Odas  blatant favoritism of Luffy into account. I don't know Mihawk could face Zoro before Raftel but that would kill all the tension with his future Shiryu duelShanks cant escape his destiny of getting an axe but I wouldn't be too surprised if Oda decided to trow Mihawk to the wolfs as well just so he could raise not only physical but personal growth of SH in Raftel arc in which when all is said and done they will officially become strongest pirate crew on the planet


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 18, 2019)

the problem is that even with Teach there - BB pirates cant defeat Shanks + Shanks whole crew + Mihawk


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## TheWiggian (Jun 18, 2019)

Great thread, i see the haters have their hands full to find excuses for the likes of Shanks


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## Mob (Jun 18, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> the problem is that even with Teach there - BB pirates cant defeat Shanks + Shanks whole crew + Mihawk


Aokiji could balance things out tho

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 18, 2019)

Mob said:


> Aokiji could balance things out tho


 I forgot about him

if he is serious, then yeah

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Jun 18, 2019)

Amol said:


> Blackbeard is The Final Villain of this manga.



No.

The great war will happen AFTER the one piece is found. Black bead will be defeated before that since he will not found the one piece. By defeating all the yonko and finding the one piece luffy will be PK.

As for Zoro final fight ....

No Idea.

I would like it if the swordman gorosei dude have some "fontain of Youth" hidden somewhere , will return to his prime age , defeats mihawk and then fight Zoro ....   we'll found out he was an ancient rival to ryuuma , came from wano or something ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jun 18, 2019)

Gledania said:


> I would like it if the swordman gorosei dude have some "fontain of Youth" hidden somewhere , will return to his prime age , defeats mihawk and then fight Zoro ....   we'll found out he was an ancient rival to ryuuma , came from wano or something ...


This is One Piece you're talking about. There's no such thing as "prime age", old dudes are OP as hell


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 18, 2019)

Overall great post. Pure fax fax, like we always do man.
Dropping facts left and right lol

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 18, 2019)

Flame said:


> This is One Piece you're talking about. There's no such thing as "prime age", old dudes are OP as hell


This is prime age and that is literally emphasized again and again. Rayleigh was out of his prime and he accepted it himself "I would have been able to do a lot more if I was younger" 
Even Whitebeard accepted "I can't stay strongest forever" 

Not everyone's prime age is the same but there is definitely a prime age that everyone has, at least human characters do.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jun 18, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> *Spoiler*: _Smoothie_



The most humiliating part of this panel is Nami's statement: 

"It's coming *again!! *Swerve to the left Jinbe!"

Directly confirming that Smoothie has launched multiple vertical slashes at the Sunny which are easily dodgeable, instead of just realizing that a single horizontal slash would be un-dodgeable for a helmsman 

You do you, Smoothie.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jun 18, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> This is prime age and that is literally emphasized again and again. Rayleigh was out of his prime and he accepted it himself "I would have been able to do a lot more if I was younger"
> Even Whitebeard accepted "I can't stay strongest forever"
> 
> Not everyone's prime age is the same but there is definitely a prime age that everyone has, at least human characters do.


Sarcasm dude...


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 18, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> The most humiliating part of this panel is Nami's statement:
> 
> "It's coming *again!! *Swerve to the left Jinbe!"
> 
> ...


Big Mom Pirates is literally a crew of  trash cans starting all the way on top from the captain being absolute joke fat ass, who got one shot along side her crew by a Yonko commander one to her first commander who literally sucked Luffy's dick mid fight forgetting all the promises he made about protecting his sister to her second commander loosing a godly battle to a top tier door to cracker being biggest pussy making Pica look like a real gladiator to snack being irrelevant enough to loose to a killer level supernova to bottom barrel jokes like Bobbin.

In retrospect Opera and Perospero might be the only two competent Big Mom pirates.



Flame said:


> Sarcasm dude...


cool..



Major Lee Hung said:


> The most humiliating part of this panel is Nami's statement:
> 
> "It's coming *again!! *Swerve to the left Jinbe!"
> 
> ...


Or maybe Smoothie is not skilled enough to throw a horizontal slash. There goes the notion of Smoothie pushing Zoro past mid diff


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## Asaya7 (Jun 18, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> In retrospect Opera and Perospero might be the only two competent Big Mom pirates.


opera?..


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 19, 2019)

It was Rogers era as Roger was Goat kd time and Rayleigh was second best thing as his partner hence why his name is known in all history books and not Whitebeards. After than roger died and Ray retired and WB became greatest pirate in the world. 

Kaido was, is and always will be trash can compared to WB, let alone rayleigh or roger.


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## Seraphoenix (Jun 19, 2019)

Sade said:


> There is no EoS potential fight for Zoro with the same relevance and weight of Mihawk vs Zoro. ( for what we know now).
> 
> BB pirates bar Teach himself are irrelevant.


If they were irrelevant then the other Yonkou would have taken over BB's territory. They will probably end up being the strongest pirate crew the SH's face. 

The weight of Mihawk vs Zoro went out of the window when Zoro begged him to train him. Zoro forsook his pride for the sake of Luffy's dream. Him helping to beat BB to achieve Luffy's dream, now has more weight to it than Mihawk vs Zoro.


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## Beast (Jun 19, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> It was Rogers era as Roger was Goat kd time and Rayleigh was second best thing as his partner hence why his name is known in all history books and not Whitebeards. After than roger died and Ray retired and WB became greatest pirate in the world.


Is this shit really gonna be allowed?

There’s trolling and than there is this. 

Ray was/ is never going to be greater than WB.


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## Steven (Jun 19, 2019)

Ray is the Silver Medal

Roger/WB are gold medals

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Jun 19, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Is this shit really gonna be allowed?
> 
> There’s trolling and than there is this


Tbh that pwngoat fella and the one in the SN thread Amol made (Card something) are far worse and they don't seem to be banned for spewing shit in Ohara Library.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 19, 2019)

Law said:


> Tbh that pwngoat fella and the one in the SN thread Amol made (Card something) are far worse and they don't seem to be banned for spewing shit.


Pwn is cool and though has wild opinions, They are just opinions. 

It’s more the arrogance of his posts and the way he talks to other users that’s really doing my head in... let him say one thing about Garp and I’m gonna explode


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 19, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> Ray is the Silver Medal
> 
> Roger/WB are gold medals


WB is just as much a silver medalist as Rayleigh is, if not more lol. What kinda bullshit is that? Gold medal is pirate king title, not yonko or WSM title that Whitebeard has. Did you even bother reading the gold medal speech? Whitebeard was capable of taking the gold medal because Roger was willing to give him the address to Raftel but he never took it. Guess what Rayleigh is also capable to taking the same gold medal, he just isn't interested in it. Not to mention he has already been to Raftel before, why would he go again, he is closest thing to Gol D Roger in actuality as his "Partner" and "Right Hand Man". 

Nami didn't even know who Whitebeard's old ass was and she stated Rayleigh's name is stated in every history book. WG views Rayleigh as a bigger threat simply because of the fact that he knows the truth that they are trying to hide, the truth of void century yet they don't dare fuck with him.


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## Steven (Jun 19, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> WB is just as much a silver medalist as Rayleigh is, if not more lol. What kinda bullshit is that? Gold medal is pirate king title, not yonko or WSM title that Whitebeard has. Did you even bother reading the gold medal speech? Whitebeard was capable of taking the gold medal because Roger was willing to give him the address to Raftel but he never took it. Guess what Rayleigh is also capable to taking the same gold medal, he just isn't interested in it. Not to mention he has already been to Raftel before, why would he go again, he is closest thing to Gol D Roger in actuality as his "Partner" and "Right Hand Man".
> 
> Nami didn't even know who Whitebeard's old ass was and she stated Rayleigh's name is stated in every history book. WG views Rayleigh as a bigger threat simply because of the fact that he knows the truth that they are trying to hide, the truth of void century yet they don't dare fuck with him.


WB was Roger´s rival and on the same level

So yes,WB is a goldmedal as well


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## Beast (Jun 19, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> WB is just as much a silver medalist as Rayleigh is, if not more lol. What kinda bullshit is that? Gold medal is pirate king title, not yonko or WSM title that Whitebeard has. Did you even bother reading the gold medal speech? Whitebeard was capable of taking the gold medal because Roger was willing to give him the address to Raftel but he never took it. Guess what Rayleigh is also capable to taking the same gold medal, he just isn't interested in it. Not to mention he has already been to Raftel before, why would he go again, he is closest thing to Gol D Roger in actuality as his "Partner" and "Right Hand Man".
> 
> Nami didn't even know who Whitebeard's old ass was and she stated Rayleigh's name is stated in every history book. WG views Rayleigh as a bigger threat simply because of the fact that he knows the truth that they are trying to hide, the truth of void century yet they don't dare fuck with him.


WB achieved his dream, just as much as Roger did and you could say that he achieved his dream first by attaining the WSM title before Roger was King and achieved his dream of a large family and power to protect them. History books talk of the great WB WSM and the man who ruled the seas till his death, there is a reason why a whole generation end with his death, (Not that we have a figure on on either of those statics), the man who took on the Marines. 

Nami didn’t know but Zoro recognised WBs symbol on Aces back iirc, not that Nami not knowing isn’t a big deal. Do you not remember when Roger was talking to WB what the D means? Do you really think that conversation was just that and WB never thought to ask more? It’s not like they were enemies even if they were rivals. Roger was a history fanatic and probably told anyone he was close with anything he had found out on the stones. 

Your claim is that Ray is better than WB because he is mentioned in more stories (though you don’t have the figures), I’m sure you’re also going to assume Bullet is better WB as well because he travelled with Roger, was a marine and escaped ID, I’m sure he is the history books more than WB as well.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Jun 19, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> If they were irrelevant then the other Yonkou would have taken over BB's territory. They will probably end up being the strongest pirate crew the SH's face.
> 
> The weight of Mihawk vs Zoro went out of the window when Zoro begged him to train him. Zoro forsook his pride for the sake of Luffy's dream. Him helping to beat BB to achieve Luffy's dream, now has more weight to it than Mihawk vs Zoro.



lolwut? If anything, Mihawk vs Zoro has more weight to it now. When Zoro first encountered Mihawk, Mihawk was just a name to him. Now, he's an actual person, a teacher, someone he obviously respects, who helped him obtain the strength he was so desperately looking for when his Captain and friend was at his lowest. Mihawk vs Zoro is much more personal now than it was pre-TS, and Mihawk's words of waiting for Zoro at the top of the world still hold true.

Reactions: Like 2


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## MO (Jun 19, 2019)

Big Mom> Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 19, 2019)

MO said:


> Big Mom> Mihawk


Big Meme needs to prove she can defeat King first lol. Mihawk will make Napolean his personal slave like Nami made zeus her personal slave and then one shot Big Mom with it.


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## Dunno (Jun 19, 2019)

MO said:


> Big Mom> Mihawk


*Great, *_adjective:_
large in amount, *size *or degree. 

I mean, you're technically correct.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Topi Jerami (Jun 20, 2019)

MO said:


> Big Mom> Mihawk


When Big Mom is such a clown canonically that her fans are resorting to fanart to wank her.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 20, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> lolwut? If anything, Mihawk vs Zoro has more weight to it now. When Zoro first encountered Mihawk, Mihawk was just a name to him. Now, he's an actual person, a teacher, someone he obviously respects, who helped him obtain the strength he was so desperately looking for when his Captain and friend was at his lowest. Mihawk vs Zoro is much more personal now than it was pre-TS, and Mihawk's words of waiting for Zoro at the top of the world still hold true.


 


Mihawk vs Zoro will be lit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jun 20, 2019)

Law said:


> Tbh that pwngoat fella and the one in the SN thread Amol made (Card something) are far worse and they don't seem to be banned for spewing shit in Ohara Library.


Perospero is obviously stronger than Katakuri, he's older after all


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## Kroczilla (Jun 20, 2019)

First off, its obvious that at some point mihawk's gonna have a rematch with zoro to pass on the WSS  title. Regardless of the fact that he trained zoro, mihawk had much earlier made a promise pretimeskip ,to await zoro at the top and at his prime to give him another go at getting the title. My guess is it would be less an actual fight and more like a fight to see whose sword breaks first. Iirn in their first fight, zoro surrendered the moment two of his swords got shattered.
The said, this "top 2" mihawk nonsense needs to end.


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## Fel1x (Jun 20, 2019)

Flame said:


> Perospero is obviously stronger than Katakuri, he's older after all


Perospero is the strongest being in OP universe. based on information from... you know who


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## Ren. (Jun 20, 2019)

MO said:


> Big Mom> Mihawk


Close thread because this is EPIC!

Someone is not liking my joke, Am I right @Shiba D. Inu  ?


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## TheWiggian (Jun 20, 2019)

Flame said:


> Perospero is obviously stronger than Katakuri, he's older after all



Nah man his introduction panel was bigger



Fel1x said:


> Perospero is the strongest being in OP universe. based on information from... you know who



Didn't you know Perospero is Rogers son?


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## Kagutsutchi (Jun 20, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> ^ (use bro)


What does this mean?


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 20, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> First off, its obvious that at some point mihawk's gonna have a rematch with zoro to pass on the WSS  title. Regardless of the fact that he trained zoro, mihawk had much earlier made a promise pretimeskip ,to await zoro at the top and at his prime to give him another go at getting the title. My guess is it would be less an actual fight and more like a fight to see whose sword breaks first. Iirn in their first fight, zoro surrendered the moment two of his swords got shattered.
> The said, this "top 2" mihawk nonsense needs to end.


Instead of calling his claim backed up by actual arguments, nonsensical like an offended snow flake, why don't you try using argumentation to attempt to debunk anything he said like me and @Major Lee Hung did?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 20, 2019)

Kamalu said:


> What does this mean?


It’s how NF mods are dealing with Racial slurs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jun 20, 2019)

Kamalu said:


> What does this mean?


Forum auto censors some words. In this case, it's nibba. Once you type the N word the forum automatically changes it to " ^(use bro)"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 20, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> WB achieved his dream, just as much as Roger did and you could say that he achieved his dream first by attaining the WSM title before Roger was King and achieved his dream of a large family and power to protect them. History books talk of the great WB WSM and the man who ruled the seas till his death, there is a reason why a whole generation end with his death, (Not that we have a figure on on either of those statics), the man who took on the Marines.
> 
> Nami didn’t know but Zoro recognised WBs symbol on Aces back iirc, not that Nami not knowing isn’t a big deal. Do you not remember when Roger was talking to WB what the D means? Do you really think that conversation was just that and WB never thought to ask more? It’s not like they were enemies even if they were rivals. Roger was a history fanatic and probably told anyone he was close with anything he had found out on the stones.
> 
> Your claim is that Ray is better than WB because he is mentioned in more stories (though you don’t have the figures), I’m sure you’re also going to assume Bullet is better WB as well because he travelled with Roger, was a marine and escaped ID, I’m sure he is the history books more than WB as well.


Well it really depends on your definition of Gold Medal, if you are looking at it on subjective basis then sure Whitebeard's goal in life was to attain a family and in his mind that may as well be Gold Medal. But in One Piece world Gold Medal is portrayed as a seat that Gol D Roger once held, the seat of Pirate King. That seat is something Whitebeard never held, being strongest man in the world is not something accepted as a "Gold Medal" in One Piece world just like being strongest creature in the world is not. Otherwise Mihawk is a Gold medalist too as he achieved the absolute height of swordsmanship, something Shanks, or Rayleigh or Fujitora couldn't. You can say Fujitora or Rayleigh never showed any interest in the title but that doesn't disqualify the greatness of Mihawk's title as we know no one in One Piece world that ever tried to get the title of WSM or WSC and we know likes of Zoro, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Mihawk etc have zero interest in Pirate King title. 

But when I refer to Gold Medal, I am referring to Pirate King title, and that is only held by Gol D Roger and every single pirate who hasn't achieved that title is defacto silver medalist, bronze medalist, or what ever have you. Whitebeard had an opportunity to attain that Gold Medal, when Roger was willing to tell him the address to Raftel but he didn't take that. But on the similar note, Rayleigh always had apportunity to take the same Gold Medal as he always knew the way to Raftel as he has been there himself and can go there again anytime he wants to if he decides to get off his retired ass, find a bunch of trash cans to be his commanders and sail his way to Raftel. But I think just like Whitebeard, Rayleigh has zero interest in that title to begin with.

Well I am sure Zoro knows who Rayleigh is too, Zoro also knew who Kaido was and knew who emperors of the sea in general was. He seems to be more socially aware when it comes to his life as a pirate and takes it much more seriously than Nami. But what is impressive is that someone like Nami who isn't aware of the greatest pirates of this era, the four emperors knew who Rayleigh which is a big deal as it shows Rayleigh's legend is bigger than Whitebeard. Which it is as Rayleigh is closest thing to Gol D Roger, his partner, his right hand man who has been to Raftel and knows the truth about void century.

Actually no I wouldn't assume Bullet (who ever the fuck that is) is better than Whitebeard because not every Roger pirate has their name etched in all the history books. Nami didn't know who Shanks was either, no straw hat knew who Crocus was, no straw hat knew who Oden was until they learned about him from Kinnemon, Momo etc. It is the Dark King whose legend almost rivals Pirate King, it is the Dark King who is known in all history books, it is the dark king who can be argued as second greatest pirate of all time. But I think you can make an argument for Whitebeard too as he was no doubt the GoaT of the great pirate era after Roger died, Shiki went MIS, Rayleigh retired, Garp was an old man.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Major Lee Hung (Jun 20, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Ray is the Silver Medal
> 
> Roger/WB are gold medals



Roger was a gold medalist for doing what no other pirate has never done.

Rayleigh was a silver medalist for riding his captain’s Name to glory.

Whitebeard was a participation trophy who could’ve been a gold medalist if he wanted to be.

The other Yonko are all participation trophies who try to be gold medalists but fail miserably.


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## Beast (Jun 20, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> Well it really depends on your definition of Gold Medal, if you are looking at it on subjective basis then sure Whitebeard's goal in life was to attain a family and in his mind that may as well be Gold Medal. But in One Piece world Gold Medal is portrayed as a seat that Gol D Roger once held, the seat of Pirate King. That seat is something Whitebeard never held, being strongest man in the world is not something accepted as a "Gold Medal" in One Piece world just like being strongest creature in the world is not. Otherwise Mihawk is a Gold medalist too as he achieved the absolute height of swordsmanship, something Shanks, or Rayleigh or Fujitora couldn't. You can say Fujitora or Rayleigh never showed any interest in the title but that doesn't disqualify the greatness of Mihawk's title as we know no one in One Piece world that ever tried to get the title of WSM or WSC and we know likes of Zoro, Rayleigh, Fujitora, Mihawk etc have zero interest in Pirate King title.
> 
> But when I refer to Gold Medal, I am referring to Pirate King title, and that is only held by Gol D Roger and every single pirate who hasn't achieved that title is defacto silver medalist, bronze medalist, or what ever have you. Whitebeard had an opportunity to attain that Gold Medal, when Roger was willing to tell him the address to Raftel but he didn't take that. But on the similar note, Rayleigh always had apportunity to take the same Gold Medal as he always knew the way to Raftel as he has been there himself and can go there again anytime he wants to if he decides to get off his retired ass, find a bunch of trash cans to be his commanders and sail his way to Raftel. But I think just like Whitebeard, Rayleigh has zero interest in that title to begin with.
> 
> ...


Not a very good logic than because everyone with a sword becomes a silver medalist to Mihawk. Oda even took time to show us a FB of Roger and WB, and if WB even thought of becoming the PK, he could have because Roger was willing to give any information he wanted.

Yeah, that point is mute if I’m honest with you. Nami didn’t know... so what? She didn’t even who Garp the hero was when she first met him and that’s the MARINE HERO, given how the WG likes to control the media for the better of their image, Nami is/ was a little girl from the little east Blue, what she does/ doesn’t know of the world two years before she even began to travel it, is a mute point.

It’s a guy from the up coming movie and what legend does Ray have? Other than being Rogers FM, we know nothing about Ray, I don’t know what legacy you speak of but Ray doesn’t have any of that, that we know of.


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 20, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Not a very good logic than because everyone with a sword becomes a silver medalist to Mihawk. Oda even took time to show us a FB of Roger and WB, and if WB even thought of becoming the PK, he could have because Roger was willing to give any information he wanted.
> 
> Yeah, that point is mute if I’m honest with you. Nami didn’t know... so what? She didn’t even who Garp the hero was when she first met him and that’s the MARINE HERO, given how the WG likes to control the media for the better of their image, Nami is/ was a little girl from the little east Blue, what she does/ doesn’t know of the world two years before she even began to travel it, is a mute point.
> 
> It’s a guy from the up coming movie and what legend does Ray have? Other than being Rogers FM, we know nothing about Ray, I don’t know what legacy you speak of but Ray doesn’t have any of that, that we know of.


I am using your own logic against you though lol 
I never claimed Mihawk is a Gold Medal in this context as Gold Medal in One Piece is only referred to as Pirate King seat. But if you are gonna argue as Whitebeard being Gold Medalist because he "Achieved his dream before Roger" and was WSM then yes every swordsman is technically a silver medalist to Mihawk just like every pirate is a silver medalist to Roger. 

Rayleigh is a bigger legend, has a greater reputation that Garp because of that though. Even Oda used Garp to hype Rayleigh's legend up. I think at this point you should start understanding. The fact that Rayleigh's name is known in all history books and not Garp's or Whitebeard's is the direct indication that the role he played in history is bigger than what Whitebeard or Garp played. Which it factually is as Rayleigh in the literal sense was closest to the Pirate King. Beyond that what he has done we don't know, I am sure Oda will expand upon it. But he obviously has done something bigger than what ever Whitebeard and Garp have ever done which make him bigger legend than them and someone whose name is known by almost anybody in the world who has read any kinda history book.

No other than being Roger's first mate we know that his name according to Nami is known in every history book unlike Yonkou, Garp, Shiki etc. So why is that, we will know soon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Xebec (Jun 20, 2019)

Mihawk wouldn't even make Big Mom bleed lol


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 20, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk wouldn't even make Big Mom bleed lol


Big Mom wouldn't even make Mihawk use a pocket knife. His fists are enough to pound that fat ass

Reactions: Like 2


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## Xebec (Jun 20, 2019)

Topi Jerami said:


> When Big Mom is such a clown canonically that her fans are resorting to fanart to wank her.


When Mihawk has no basically no feats that his fans have to resort to flat out lies and propaganda to wank him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 20, 2019)

Malos said:


> When Mihawk has no basically no feats that his fans have to resort to flat out lies and propaganda to wank him


No feats? Mihawk's feats make Big Mom look like an even bigger joke than she actually is lol


Shishio ishere said:


> A marvelously put together Mihawk tribute post, and I agree with pretty much everything besides your placement of Mihawk. Before I get into my post I will give you my top tier ranking, but you my ^ (use bro), so you prolly already know it.
> 1)Kaido
> 2)BB
> 3)Mihawk and Akainu
> ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 20, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> I am using your own logic against you though lol
> I never claimed Mihawk is a Gold Medal in this context as Gold Medal in One Piece is only referred to as Pirate King seat. But if you are gonna argue as Whitebeard being Gold Medalist because he "Achieved his dream before Roger" and was WSM then yes every swordsman is technically a silver medalist to Mihawk just like every pirate is a silver medalist to Roger.
> 
> Rayleigh is a bigger legend, has a greater reputation that Garp because of that though. Even Oda used Garp to hype Rayleigh's legend up. I think at this point you should start understanding. The fact that Rayleigh's name is known in all history books and not Garp's or Whitebeard's is the direct indication that the role he played in history is bigger than what Whitebeard or Garp played. Which it factually is as Rayleigh in the literal sense was closest to the Pirate King. Beyond that what he has done we don't know, I am sure Oda will expand upon it. But he obviously has done something bigger than what ever Whitebeard and Garp have ever done which make him bigger legend than them and someone whose name is known by almost anybody in the world who has read any kinda history book.
> ...


Wait... bruh, you were the one with this silly logic that the only dream that matters is PK title.  
One question, is future WSS Zoro a silver medalist or gold medalist? 

Yeah, I’m starting to realise you don’t know what you’re talking about and going off something Nami said as if it’s a fact. Not to mention... Nami didn’t recognise him, only once he had introduced himself properly did she recall his name. Just a silly point You’ve made, where are all those history books? How many mention Ray? How do we know Namis statement isn’t just exaggerated? Where is the proof? 
I’m not going to go back and forth if you’re not even trying to comprehend what I am saying, you have no evidence of what you’re saying other than a a single panel, which I’m sure is up for interpretation giving the language differences.


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## Kroczilla (Jun 21, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> Instead of calling his claim backed up by actual arguments, nonsensical like an offended snow flake, why don't you try using argumentation to attempt to debunk anything he said like me and @Major Lee Hung did?



Probably coz I find the entire premise of this thread so ridiculous as to not warrant a serious debate. Like Mihawk, I am not in the habit of using a Canon to hunt rabbits.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Francyst (Jun 21, 2019)

It's a shame all your effort was wasted because you was too lazy to structure your post. Aint nobody got time for that

Reactions: Like 3


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## Xebec (Jun 21, 2019)

O-Lin tosses Mihawk into the sea

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 21, 2019)

Malos said:


> O-Lin tosses Mihawk into the sea


O Lin needs to stop being choppers personal pet first


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## Red Admiral (Jun 22, 2019)

2nd strongest man in the verse and


last time story even cared about him was over 10 years ago
last time he did some thing worthy for the plot was over 15 years ago
have no role to play in major plot 
he is not even a boss and just a solder

this is not how a story react to his 2nd strongest


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Jun 22, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 2nd strongest man in the verse and
> 
> 
> last time story even cared about him was over 10 years ago
> ...



Better than making him get punked by some scrub bandits and get his arm eaten by a fish

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Jun 22, 2019)

Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman and Zoro's final opponent. Obviously he's one of the strongest characters in the series, stronger than Shanks and current Rayleigh and every other swordsman.

Anyone who disagrees is wrong.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Flame (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 2nd strongest man in the verse and
> 
> 
> last time story even cared about him was over 10 years ago
> ...


You know what they say: save the best for last


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 2nd strongest man in the verse and
> 
> 
> last time story even cared about him was over 10 years ago
> ...


Lets look at last time story cared about Mihawk's former rival who is too weak for him now


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Wait... bruh, you were the one with this silly logic that the only dream that matters is PK title.
> One question, is future WSS Zoro a silver medalist or gold medalist?
> 
> Yeah, I’m starting to realise you don’t know what you’re talking about and going off something Nami said as if it’s a fact. Not to mention... Nami didn’t recognise him, only once he had introduced himself properly did she recall his name. Just a silly point You’ve made, where are all those history books? How many mention Ray? How do we know Namis statement isn’t just exaggerated? Where is the proof?
> I’m not going to go back and forth if you’re not even trying to comprehend what I am saying, you have no evidence of what you’re saying other than a a single panel, which I’m sure is up for interpretation giving the language differences.


I think I see the problem, maybe I wasn't clear enough or perhaps you struggle with effectively constructive meaning from the text. I think you decoded my words wrong and failed to grasp the background knowledge to construct an approximate understanding of my message.

I never stated nor implied that the only dream that matters is pirate king, as a matter of fact I highly disagree with that notion. I think Zoro's dream has been portrayed as almost in a similar light as Luffy's with Oda writing a chapter titled "Pirate King and Great Swordsman" and Kuma claiming "WSS title is close enough to pirate king and I will take your head instead" which gave us one of if not the greatest moments in One Piece ever.

What I said was that this proverbial "Gold Medal" that we are talking about refers to the statement "There were many silver medalists, Roger was the only gold medalist" where the Gold Medal is Roger's pirate king title. To bring up things like Whitebeard achieved his dream of attaining his family before roger is strawmanning and shifting the actual goal post. It is irrelevant to the topic that Whitebeard has attained his dream before Roger, what I was claiming is that Whitebeard is just as much a silver medalist in this context as Rayleigh is as Gold medal mentioned in that quote is title of pirate king.

As far as future WSS Zoro, it really depends on what your definition of Gold Medal, Zoro will be swordsman gold medalist, just like Mihawk is, and every other swordsman who is almost there, will be a silver medalist. Zoro will still be a pirate silver medalist as piracy gold medal is Pirate King title. 

Once again you fail to effectively comprehend my message. Its not about the volumes, the actual number of history books. It is the fact that Oda wrote on panel from Nami's words who reads a lot of books and is trying to draw map of the world, that Rayleigh's name is known in every history book. Whitebeard's notoriety as a pirate simply is not as big as Rayleigh's, its not me trying to downplay his legend. He is obviously king of current era, as a matter of fact after Marine Ford, after him proclaiming to the world that One Piece does indeed exist, and going down in the fashion he did, his notoriety may even have surpassed Rayleigh's. But before that he was but a man who could have attained the gold medal but decided not to while Rayleigh was there, closest to Roger in his journey to attaining gold medal and in that journey he attained notoriety that no other pirate besides his own captain in history has based on Nami's quote.

I think you really struggle with reading comprehension, I would like to offer you some tips

I think this will help.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Better than making him get punked by some scrub bandits and get his arm eaten by a fish



I love the fact none of Mihawk fans can give a logical answer and only can hide behind jokes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I love the fact none of Mihawk fans can give a logical answer and only can hide behind jokes


It is logical answer though,
He only stated facts. Shanks got punked out by bandits. He got low diffed by fish. And that was Shanks' most important moment in manga!


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> It is logical answer though,
> He only stated facts. Shanks got punked out by bandits. He got low diffed by fish. And that was Shanks' most important moment in manga!



well ... as far as I remember he was the one who neg diff the fish and Oda was the one who took his arm 

and yes that's Shanks' most important moment in manga!

that moment is the reason why WG would fall after 800 years 

you may call it THE most important moment in manga so far

Reactions: Like 3


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## Beast (Jun 23, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> I think I see the problem, maybe I wasn't clear enough or perhaps you struggle with effectively constructive meaning from the text. I think you decoded my words wrong and failed to grasp the background knowledge to construct an approximate understanding of my message.
> 
> I never stated nor implied that the only dream that matters is pirate king, as a matter of fact I highly disagree with that notion. I think Zoro's dream has been portrayed as almost in a similar light as Luffy's with Oda writing a chapter titled "Pirate King and Great Swordsman" and Kuma claiming "WSS title is close enough to pirate king and I will take your head instead" which gave us one of if not the greatest moments in One Piece ever.
> 
> ...


No no I completely understand what you’re saying. I just wasn’t sure you knew what you were saying but now that we’re on the same page, gonna leave it at disagree to disagree to agree or maybe not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> well ... as far as I remember he was the one who neg diff the fish and Oda was the one who took his arm
> 
> and yes that's Shanks' most important moment in manga!
> 
> ...


Idk man, if I was attacked by a lion and lion bit my arm and then decided to run away, I wouldn't say I neg diffed the lion.

So you do agree with Cyrus lol



MasterBeast said:


> *No no I completely understand what you’re saying*. I just wasn’t sure you knew what you were saying but now that we’re on the same page, gonna leave it at disagree to disagree to agree or maybe not.


I doubt it 

But lets agree to disagree or what ever I guess lol


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> Idk man, if I was attacked by a lion and lion bit my arm and then decided to run away, I wouldn't say I neg diffed the lion.
> 
> So you do agree with Cyrus lol



at least Shanks told the fish go away
he didn't ask him to delay the fight cause he was in trouble 


Shanks is Luffy's end goal ... some thing to put him miles away from like of Mihawk


soon Mihawk run away and join Shanks from fear of WG ...

good old Shanks care about weaklings

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> at least Shanks told the fish go away
> he didn't ask him to delay the fight cause he was in trouble
> 
> 
> ...


Eh, fish just showed Shanks mercy. It was probably full anyways after feasting on Shanks' Haki arm.

Shanks is not Luffy's end goal and you need to stop living in denial. Pirate king is Luffy's goal not a mere Yonkou one armed trash who couldn't even take down a fish. Mihawk is in actuality Zoro's ultimate destination and EoS Zoro would eat Shanks level fighters for break fast.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> Eh, fish just showed Shanks mercy. It was probably full anyways after feasting on Shanks' Haki arm.
> 
> Shanks is not Luffy's end goal and you need to stop living in denial. Pirate king is Luffy's goal not a mere Yonkou one armed trash who couldn't even take down a fish. Mihawk is in actuality Zoro's ultimate destination and EoS Zoro would eat Shanks level fighters for break fast.


LOL ... jokes and bullshit ... foundation of Mihawk fandom

Luffy himself : Pirate king is Just freest man on the seas
Data Book : Luffy's goal is to be freest man on the seas

Shanks is the current freest man on the seas
Roger was the last before him

in line of freedom , strew hat and kings Shanks , Roger and Luffy will all shine


who give fuck about swordsman who are not even part of the big picture


Yonko are the main villains of the seas and a saga too ... who the hell is Mihawk? a fucking nobody with no role to play


LOL


p.s

Zoro is lucky if Shanks let him kiss his ass

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sherlōck (Jun 23, 2019)

Welcome to NF @Red Admiral


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## AmitDS (Jun 23, 2019)

Somewhat off topic, why are people on this thread saying that Kaido is the strongest in OP? That thing about strongest 'creature' and if it's a one vs one bet on Kaido clearly refer to him being some mystery beast who cannot die (thus in a one vs. one bet on the immortal). If Kaido were the strongest Yonko/strongest character they'd have said it.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jun 23, 2019)

Flame said:


> You know what they say: save the best for last


> get Meme and Kaidou out of the way
> save Teach, Mihawk and admirals for last

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> LOL ... jokes and bullshit ... foundation of Mihawk fandom
> 
> Luffy himself : Pirate king is Just freest man on the seas
> Data Book : Luffy's goal is to be freest man on the seas
> ...


How can some dickride a basically irrelevent character who will get off paneled by blackbeard. 

Did you just say swordsmen are not part of bigger picture, you literally said guy you worship shanks is not part of a bigger picture, well he factually isn't. His role is to get off paneled by teach.

By Rayleigh and Zoro? They are the fucking picture, Rayleigh was closest thing to gol d roger and is the sole reason why Luffy could defeat Kaido and will defeat Kaido. 

Zoro is inarguably second most important character in the entire series who is the sole reason why Luffys journey even kickstarted. It was them two OGs, the first official crew member who will play second biggest role in WG down fall as Luffys first mate. 

love how Shankstards have to cling on to every little thing to dickride him as he factually is the most embarrassing top tier. He literally became "Freest man on seas" by kissing ass and snitching on pirates, gorosei lets him visit them because they know he isn't a threat. And you decide to run that statement home by claiming "Shanks is freest man so he is PK level". NO! He is just a mere yonko who is equal to benn beckman and weaker than Mihawk and Kaido by the same cards that you use to dickride Shanks. Luffy will be freest man not by snitching, not by kissing ass, he will be freest man by taking everyone down and Zoro will play second biggest role in that effort as his partner and right hand man. While likes of Admirals and Mihawk are final opponents for Luffy and Zoro. 

You also ignored Mihawks vivre card literally confirminf he is stronger than shanks by far when it claims "Mihawk is looking for someone stronger than his rival Shanks" "Mihawk is WSS is name and actuality", and you are desperate you literally deny an actual manga fact by baiscally denying that shanks is a swordsman. 

Shanks haki is average for top tiers at best, Mihawk and Ryumas Haki literally shit all over theirs considering they did something he could never dream of and make a permanent black blade. 

So Shanks is weaker thak Mihawk and equal to benn Beckman. Deal with it.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

Shishio ishere said:


> How can some dickride a basically irrelevent character who will get off paneled by blackbeard.
> 
> Did you just say swordsmen are not part of bigger picture, you literally said guy you worship shanks is not part of a bigger picture, well he factually isn't. His role is to get off paneled by teach.
> 
> ...



so should I argue Vs your fan fiction ...

next time understand argument is about manga not your head canon ...


p.s 

Ben > Vista ~ Mihawk :>

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jun 23, 2019)

A mere Yonko  
Zoro is the sole reason For Luffy to kick start his journey. 

What is this guy reading?


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## Red Admiral (Jun 23, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> A mere Yonko
> Zoro is the sole reason For Luffy to kick start his journey.
> 
> What is this guy reading?


Zoro?


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## Shishio ishere (Jun 23, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> A mere Yonko
> Zoro is the sole reason For Luffy to kick start his journey.
> 
> What is this guy reading?


A mere yonko is a phrase stated in One Piece manga. 

Zoro is Luffys first crew mate, after Zoro decided to go on a journey, his journey officially kick started. Kinda like how Rogers journey kick started after he told Rayleigh "Come turn the world upside down with me" 

I know its a little too advanced for you, but all i stated are facts from manga.


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## Beast (Jun 23, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Zoro?


yup


Shishio ishere said:


> A mere yonko is a phrase stated in One Piece manga.
> 
> Zoro is Luffys first crew mate, after Zoro decided to go on a journey, his journey officially kick started. Kinda like how Rogers journey kick started after he told Rayleigh "Come turn the world upside down with me"
> 
> I know its a little too advanced for you, but all i stated are facts from manga.


his journey started with the sea king.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sengoku (Jun 25, 2019)

Wait. Didn't Shanks get his arm torn off by an East Blue seaking?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Jun 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Wait. Didn't Shanks get his arm torn off by an East Blue seaking?



7000 posts and 3 likes?

p.s

2 fodders killed Roger
Dadan neg diff Garp
a picture low diffed Big Mom


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## Steven (Jun 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 7000 posts and 3 likes?
> 
> p.s
> 
> ...


Savage


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## Ren. (Jun 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> 7000 posts and 3 likes?
> 
> p.s
> 
> ...


Mate take it easy, don't neg diff your opponent from the first post in this thread :V!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (Jun 26, 2019)

He is waiting for someone stronger than shanks...


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Mihawk being a top tier has been confirmed ever since the sbs and databooks placed him twice on the same pedestal as a Yonko so this should honestly be disregarded as trolling when anyone says otherwise. Top 2 however most likely not since his plot relevance isn't big enough which will lead to him being portrayed as a rival to the silver medallist group of top tiers not as a great and powerful leader of the current gen himself.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

Sufex said:


> He is waiting for someone stronger than shanks...


I guess in following years I have to say it a 1000 times that

Mihawk wait for stronger sword master

Vista is a stronger sword master than Big Mom or Fujitora

so ... Vista > Big Mom or Fujitora?


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## Geralt-Singh (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Vista is a stronger sword master than Big Mom or *Fujitora*


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

call me only if you had a logic or canon argument

or in another words

never call me

vitsa sword mastery is close to Mihawk and among the best of the world

Fujitora swordsmanship level is not even Zoro level


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I guess in following years I have to say it a 1000 times that
> 
> Mihawk wait for stronger sword master
> 
> ...



Not this sword Master nonsense again. :/
Who says that Mihawk only wants to get better than people that rely on raw swordsmanship? Where is that stated in the title? This is about as illogical as suggesting that Whitebeard only wants to be the strongest puncher since devil fruits are not powers that a "man" uses. It would make him something like the strongest uebermensch/strongest demon/devil fruit User.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Not this sword Master nonsense again. :/
> Who says that Mihawk only wants to get better than people that rely on raw swordsmanship? Where is that stated in the title? This is about as illogical as suggesting that Whitebeard only wants to be the strongest puncher since devil fruits are not powers that a "man" uses. It would make him something like the strongest uebermensch/strongest demon/devil fruit User.



dude ... data book said sword master ... not person ... not swordsman ... but sword master

go talk to editors if you don't like it

p.s

the swordsmanship itself is the what matter the most for people like Zoro and Mihawk ... clear as day


p.s 2 

White Beard title wasn't 100% legit too 
you can't be strongest and equal to Roger at same time


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> dude ... data book said sword master ... not person ... not swordsman ... but sword master
> 
> go talk to editors if you don't like it
> 
> ...



It is the exact same thing bro. :/


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Mihawk being a top tier has been confirmed ever since the sbs and databooks placed him twice on the same pedestal as a Yonko so this should honestly be disregarded as trolling when anyone says otherwise. Top 2 however most likely not since his plot relevance isn't big enough which will lead to him being portrayed as a rival to the silver medallist group of top tiers not as a great and powerful leader of the current gen himself.




maybe not top 2 of all time but he could give the top 2 a v good fight as per authorial intent


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It is the exact same thing bro. :/


sword master is CLEARLY about swordsmanship level

the whole WSS title is about this too ... but I know you don't want to even think about that


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> maybe not top 2 of all time but he could give the top 2 a v good fight as per authorial intent



Certainly. He is the Rayleigh of the mid gen and Rayleigh wouldn't get owned by anyone that has been pretty clear.


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

eos zoro>shanks as highlighted in databook 2 and 1.

toy say hybdrbole? There's no ball in hyberballz


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Certainly. He is the Rayleigh of the mid gen and Rayleigh wouldn't get owned by anyone that has been pretty clear.


I'm a Dark king fan .. but I'm not sure if he could beat any Yonko in his Prime

I PRAY he can beat Big Mom... but if Big mom would have legit advance CoA ... I guess not


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I'm a Dark king fan .. but I'm not sure if he could beat any Yonko in his Prime



prime rayleigh would slice big mom's bannanas through stratospheric distortions. str8 up no joke.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> prime rayleigh would slice big mom's bannanas through stratospheric distortions. str8 up no joke.


well ... you can say pretty words ... but truth is truth ...

if Big Mom don't have advance CoA ... I don't see how she can stand a chance ... true

but she is most active pirate alive ... I won't bet in

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

consider this:

a pension aged, rusty, pre-diabeities, potential heart attack risk, and high blood pressure Raleigh stalemated kizaru and later spared his life as alluded to in the previous arc. there is no hyberballz in that

rayleigh solos dark long style emanated from the crucifixion



Red Admiral said:


> well ... you can say pretty words ... but truth is truth ...
> 
> if Big Mom don't have advance CoA ... I don't see how she can stand a chance ... true
> 
> but she is most active pirate alive ... I won't bet in



Hey man it's going to be a very tough fight but slices are cool


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## Steven (Jun 27, 2019)

BM is for a good reason a yonkou

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> consider this:
> 
> a pension aged, rusty, pre-diabeities, potential heart attack risk, and high blood pressure Raleigh stalemated kizaru and later spared his life as alluded to in the previous arc. there is no hyberballz in that
> 
> rayleigh solos dark long style emanated from the crucifixion



yes .... but Big Mom is old too ... like 68 is not Young ...

and in 68 she is a rival of Kaido and as story told us 10 times ... stand head to head with Kaido 

I like it if you say Dark King > big Mom
I love it if it be true

I don't see it unless Big mom lack advance CoA


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> sword master is CLEARLY about swordsmanship level
> 
> the whole WSS title is about this too ... but I know you don't want to even think about that



I dont want to think about this because it is nonsense. I consider Shanks>Mihawk btw so Don even try putting me into some stereotype groups to discredit my argument. Anyway you don't understand. There is no differentiation between a swordmaster and a swordsman because both need to learn how to use a sword properly in a fight. They are all swordmaster in their own way. You are just playing silly word games.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> Hey man it's going to be a very tough fight but slices are cool


if Big mom CoA be low .... not really ... it's a low diff ...

cause she won't stand a chance

I can explain why after next chapter


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if Big mom CoA be low .... not really ... it's a low diff ...
> 
> cause she won't stand a chance
> 
> I can explain why after next chapter




she only made it number 5 in the official top 10 list


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I dont want to think about this because it is nonsense. I consider Shanks>Mihawk btw so Don even try putting me into some stereotype groups to discredit my argument. Anyway you don't understand. There is no differentiation between a swordmaster and a swordsman because both need to learn how to use a sword properly in a fight. They are all swordmaster in their own way. You are just playing silly word games.



well no for me swordsmanship is style of fight and broken one too which have levels and fight styles

but as long as you say Shanks > Mihawk I agree with most of the thing in this argument with you



Santoryu said:


> she only made it number 5 in the official top 10 list


sure that's official


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## Luke (Jun 27, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> where exactly people would have put Mihawk in manga based on his MF feats if he has no WSS title ...high tier or top tier??



In this type of manga, portrayal is usually more important to look at as opposed to feats when discussing power levelz. But regardless, Mihawk destroying that iceberg with a casual swing is still one of the most impressive feats in the series.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> well no for me swordsmanship is style of fight and broken one too which have levels and fight styles
> 
> but as long as you say Shanks > Mihawk I agree with most of the thing in this argument with you



I dont see how it is not swordsmanship when someone like Fujitora uses gravity for example? Like why would you need to pray to your sword, sit in a waterfall, swing your sword with two hands or shoot green beams without devil fruits to be a swordmaster/swordsman? It is just silly head Canon that this is what "swordmaster" is meant to represent in this Manga. And I know that is basically what you are alluding to.


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## Santoryu (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I dont see how it is not swordsmanship when someone like Fujitora uses gravity for example? Like why would you need to pray to your sword, sit in a waterfall, swing your sword with two hands or shoot green beams without devil fruits to be a swordmaster/swordsman? It is just silly head Canon that this is what "swordmaster" is meant to represent in this Manga. And I know that is basically what you are alluding to.



do you think people in this section will cry when zoro slices fujitora's glutes?


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> where exactly people would have put Mihawk in manga based on his MF feats if he has no WSS title ...high tier or top tier??



Top tier obviously. His Iceburg cut and slash against Whitebeard have both been portrayed next to the elite fighters and in the top level of this arc.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> I dont see how it is not swordsmanship when someone like Fujitora uses gravity for example? Like why would you need to pray to your sword, sit in a waterfall, swing your sword with two hands or shoot green beams without devil fruits to be a swordmaster/swordsman? It is just silly head Canon that this is what "swordmaster" is meant to represent in this Manga. And I know that is basically what you are alluding to.



cause Fujitora use his sword to *CHANNEL* his power
but
Vista use his sword to *CREATE* roses 

that's why Fujitora is a swordsman and Vista is a sword master

same can be said about law and Zoro


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Santoryu said:


> do you think people in this section will cry when zoro slices fujitora's glutes?



I'm sure they would granted I dont believe that is going to happen since Fujitora has been hinted to be a rebel both in manga and a SBS.



Red Admiral said:


> cause Fujitora use his sword to *CHANNEL* his power
> but
> Vista use his sword to *CREATE* roses
> 
> ...



Again you are pushing this weird agenda lol. Show me where it says that you aren't a "sword master" if you use your sword to channel a devil fruit? Or if you don't shoot beams and cut steel with your sword? What about this makes a difference? I repeat it is the same thing. Both use swords like a master but in a different way. Nowhere does it say you aren't good with a sword if you do this nor does it say that you aren't allowed to do that. Everyone who can use a sword in battle successfully and uses it a lot can be considered a sword master. The burden of proof is on you to show us that Oda is making a "kendo-only" or "no supernatural powers" distinction.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Again you are pushing this weird agenda lol. Show me where it says that you aren't a "sword master" if you use your sword to channel a devil fruit? Or if you don't shoot beams and cut steel with your sword? What about this makes a difference?



I can show you Vista is stated to be a top level sword master (new data book)
and
I can show you Vista "swordsmanship" is strong enough to face Mihawk (old data book)


manga/data book clearly created level of swordsmanship base on sword mastery do we have this levels and you can't deny it


even we have an official term of "the mighty sword" which is a skilled base title in swordsmanship in manga


the level of your swordsmanship is in the swordsmanship power

the over all power is some thing else


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## Quipchaque (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I can show you Vista is stated to be a top level sword master (new data book)
> and
> I can show you Vista "swordsmanship" is strong enough to face Mihawk (old data book)
> 
> ...



You really don't get it. :/ Oda never said that he wants us to view the swordsman who fight with a devil fruit or without devil fruits as a different species, or anything. The lack of a second title that refers to a "strongest devil fruit user" "haki user" etc depicts clearly that the titles we have are an "anything goes" thing and that Oda uses the word sword master not to split people into groups but as a synonym to swordsman. It is the same thing. Show us any person that Oda calls a swordsman yet would not call a sword master or vice versa. Since he is a Japanese writer these two things are directly connected by default. "mighty sword" is more likely a reference to swordsman that put a lot of raw power in their weapon and try to brute force through you with unstoppable strength.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 27, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You really don't get it. :/ Oda never said that he wants us to view the swordsman who fight with a devil fruit or without devil fruits as a different species, or anything. The lack of a second title that refers to a "strongest devil fruit user" "haki user" etc depicts clearly that the titles we have are an "anything goes" thing and that Oda uses the word sword master not to split people into groups but as a synonym to swordsman. It is the same thing. Show us any person that Oda calls a swordsman yet would not call a sword master or vice versa. Since he is a Japanese writer these two things are directly connected by default. "mighty sword" is more likely a reference to swordsman that put a lot of raw power in their weapon and try to brute force through you with unstoppable strength.



so tell me this

if WSS is what you think it is

why Oda never stated Roger as WSS? he is a swordsman as he showed us


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## LolonoisZolo (Jun 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so tell me this
> 
> if WSS is what you think it is
> 
> why Oda never stated Roger as WSS? he is a swordsman as he showed us


We have never seen Roger clash with anybody ever lol where was it shown ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jun 28, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so tell me this
> 
> if WSS is what you think it is
> 
> why Oda never stated Roger as WSS? he is a swordsman as he showed us



When was Roger shown as a swordsman? Raising a sword is not the same as being a swordsman lol.


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## Sengoku (Jun 28, 2019)

Shanks is an embarrassment. Period.
An "emperor" who couldn't even save Luffy without sacrificing his arm. And an emperor who couldn't save Ace on time. So much for being "fast" with quick reaction times. Might as well title him "the better late than never clown".

Mihawk is correct. He should be looking for an opponent that isn't wood-level stub like Shanks. EOS Zoro should and will provide a sufficient fight to him.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 28, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> When was Roger shown as a swordsman? Raising a sword is not the same as being a swordsman lol.


lol .... deny deny deny

if the next time we saw Roger in action and he used sword too ... like there is no reason Oda undo the sword .... then what?


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## Geralt-Singh (Jun 28, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so tell me this
> 
> if WSS is what you think it is
> 
> why Oda never stated Roger as WSS? he is a swordsman as he showed us



Because 

-he was already PK and PK > WSS
-WSS is mainly for plot, to indicate who Zoro must defeat to become the WSS 
-it is stated that Mihawk defeated every swordsmen who challenged him so there's a good reason for him to be WSS
-Roger most likely never fought any top tier swordsmen, on the other hand Mihawk fought a Yonko Swordsman in legendary duels


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## Red Admiral (Jun 28, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Because
> 
> -he was already PK and PK > WSS
> -WSS is mainly for plot, to indicate who Zoro must defeat to become the WSS
> ...


well he was PK in THAT LAST YEAR of his life ... and he was 53 .... so ... first argument is dumb really cause WB and Mihawk had their title before age 40 sure Roger could do the same ..

and you think if WB went and become PK ... he would lose his title as WSM?

title and Rank are not same thing

- good ,,, great ,,,, if it's for the plot that Shanks is not related to it

- well Mihawk didn't beat Shanks , Vista , Dark King , Fujitora or Big Mom or any one from Wano ...so ....

- dude .... in his argument this like "never fought any top tier swordsmen" wasn't a thing ... and again what is Wrong with Shanks having a top class swordsmanship? in the end Shanks DEFINING POWER is his Haki ... but his swordsmanship is TOP class as well


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## Geralt-Singh (Jun 28, 2019)

What I'm trying to say is : why would Roger get the WSS title ? 

WSS Mihawk is way more legit than a WSS Roger who only fought non swordsmen, didn't achieve black blade, and never showed swordsmanship skills

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jun 28, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> lol .... deny deny deny
> 
> if the next time we saw Roger in action and he used sword too ... like there is no reason Oda undo the sword .... then what?



Then he is a sword master or swordsman whatever you want to call him lol. Like does it matter? I think it is ridicous to consider someone a swordsman just because he is shown raising a sword.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 28, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Then he is a sword master or swordsman whatever you want to call him lol. Like does it matter? I think it is ridiculous to consider someone a swordsman just because he is shown raising a sword.


ok .... I mean Roger was using a sword during his hardest war yet ... he is not a fool ...

but ...

as I ask ... if Roger used sword again in manga what then?

if you use sword as one of your main weapon you are a swordsman ... right ?

and if Roger wasn't WSS

*where do you stand then? tell me*


we all know Roger being a swordsman is stronger claim for now since it been shwon in manga and it's not ridiculous at all to point out to the manga

and

we all know most likely Roger is not WSS on his time


the doors of deny is open ... sure ...

but be ready cause even a single panel of Roger in action would close of all that


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## Quipchaque (Jun 28, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> ok .... I mean Roger was using a sword during his hardest war yet ... he is not a fool ...
> 
> but ...
> 
> ...



You are really making a big deal out of this. As I said in this Manga so far sword master and swordsman are treated as the same thing. I have never heard anyone say nonsense like "your sword is not mighty go pray some more under that waterfall" I have also never heard anyone say that devil fruits are not allowed for a swordsman to be considered a stronger swordsman than Mihawk. That too is just a fan myth and there is still conveniently no second title for everything  goes titles which implies again that there is no such thing as exclusive titles for "sword masters only".

Since you asked for my stance I believe everyone that uses a sword in any form extensively is a swordsman and a sword master and everyone of those people can fight for the title. Simple as that. For example I believe Shanks is a haki based swordsman, Mihawk a power based swordsman, Pica and Kaku devil fruit swordsman. And Shanks is either equal or stronger than Mihawk.


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## Red Admiral (Jun 28, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You are really making a big deal out of this. As I said in this Manga so far sword master and swordsman are treated as the same thing. I have never heard anyone say nonsense like "your sword is not mighty go pray some more under that waterfall" I have also never heard anyone say that devil fruits are not allowed for a swordsman to be considered a stronger swordsman than Mihawk. That too is just a fan myth and there is still conveniently no second title for everything  goes titles which implies again that there is no such thing as exclusive titles for "sword masters only".
> 
> Since you asked for my stance I believe everyone that uses a sword in any form extensively is a swordsman and a sword master and everyone of those people can fight for the title. Simple as that. For example I believe Shanks is a haki based swordsman, Mihawk a power based swordsman, Pica and Kaku devil fruit swordsman. And Shanks is either equal or stronger than Mihawk.


cause this is a BIG DEAL

this is a proof why WSS is not strongest man who use sword

sure you like it if I don't see it as big as it is 


again no need for a hour long talk ... you made good point ... but got nothing to do with my argument 

*just answer me this ... I asked you 3 times already and you didn't answer me back *


if Roger be proven as a swordsman
and he don't be WSS

than you agree WSS is not about over all power?


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## Quipchaque (Jun 28, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> cause this is a BIG DEAL
> 
> this is a proof why WSS is not strongest man who use sword
> 
> ...



Depends how Roger fightsbut most likely yes I would agree then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

Luke said:


> In this type of manga, portrayal is usually more important to look at as opposed to feats when discussing power levelz. But regardless, Mihawk destroying that iceberg with a casual swing is still one of the most impressive feats in the series.


Not really far from that!

There are several feats including KKG that is more impressive than that and this comes from a high tier.


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## Quipchaque (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> Not really far from that!
> 
> There are several feats including KKG that is more impressive than that and this comes from a high tier.



Not quite. You gotta look at the details of that feat. Mihawk not only cut that Iceburg, he did so from a distance with an air slash and not even direct contact which we know are the more powerful attacks from swordsmen. He also launched the whole thing into the air and crushed the whole upper half into pieces. And all this in an arc in which the upper feat ceiling that Oda wanted to showcase is lower.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Not quite. You gotta look at the details of that feat.


I do, first of all, that is ice, density is crap!

KKG destroyed DD' highest defense move and offensive move, KO a mid-high tier and the remaining kinetic energy transferred to DD body destroyed the bedrock of a large portion of DR!

We can go to pixel counting and  all the math but remember this is fiction and in these series, Luffy was crushing rock from EB and he cracks steal in base with only KOKA and KKG was against KOKA attacks and defense + a real body that is way harder then inanimated material for ODA!



DiscoZoro20 said:


> he did so from a distance with an air slash and not even direct contact which we know are the more powerful attacks from swordsmen.


And, some guys include Law as swordsman so can we include his PH feat ?

And the DF excuse is bad because KKG is also DF related feat


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## Quipchaque (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> I do, first of all, that is ice, density is crap!
> 
> KKG destroyed DD' highest defense move and offensive move, KO a mid-high tier and the remaining kinetic energy transferred to DD body destroyed the bedrock of a large portion of DR!
> 
> ...



Material was not at all relevant the attack was way too powerful whether it is stone, ice or steel it would have done the same thing.

Mihawk would do way more than just k.o.ing Doflamingo with that attack.

I dunno why Pixel counting would be relevant to you? Noone said such a thing. And as I said Mihawk would do way more damage than Luffy with that attack. It would most likely outright kill Doflamingo by splitting him in half.

You can if you want to.

I never said anything about devil fruits.


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Material was not all all relevant the attack was way too powerful *whether it is stone, ice or steel it would have done the same thing.*


And you know that because of manga panels?

Material is relevant in OP, you just had a slash meant for WB blocked by Diamond Jozu


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Mihawk would do way more than just k.o.ing Doflamingo with that attack.



Yes mate because a more serious slash was not blocked by diamond Jozu!


DiscoZoro20 said:


> You can if you want to.


So AOE wise Law's slash has more radius then  what WSS shown and we are comparing a low high tier with  a top tier move .



DiscoZoro20 said:


> It would most likely outright kill Doflamingo by splitting him in half.


That is head canon at best!

You can disprove it by showing at least one splitting in half done to an actual character in OP as I said Oda sees Characters body much more durable than large quantities of inanimate materials!


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## Quipchaque (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> And you know that because of manga panels?
> 
> Material is relevant in OP, you just had a slash meant for WB blocked by Diamond Jozu
> 
> ...



You sound like a troll that hates Mihawk.


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> You sound *like a troll that hates Mihawk*.


WOW such a great counter argument 

So let me get this I need to believe whatever you said because you are a WSS fan and I am not :V.

Your only argument is that slash and that is a classic thing used by those that are fans of WSS but ignore all the rest of his feats in MF because ...

And I see WSS as mid-top tier/mid-high but seriously top 2  and I am the troll in here.

@Oreki , @Hades92  , @Gotenks92 :

I am a troll when I ignore them also I am a troll when I debunk their narrative so in conclusion, I am a troll whenever I disagree with WSS is the strongest/ top 2/3 ... give me a break.

I hate bias ... for example, I like WB but in MF Kaido was most likely stronger!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gotenks92 (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> And I see WSS as mid-top tier/mid-high but seriously top 2 and I am the troll in here.


LOL yeah man you are the troll here Zoro's dream is above all the characters including Luffy, becoming the pirate king? Being at least on par with Roger, prime WB, and prime Garp? not a big deal
You need to surpass Mihawk to be at the top, Zoro needs to find a stronger captain


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

Gotenks92 said:


> LOL yeah man you are the troll here Zoro's dream is above all the characters including Luffy, becoming the pirate king? Being at least on par with Roger, prime WB, and prime Garp? not a big deal
> You need to surpass Mihawk to be at the top, Zoro needs to find a stronger captain


Yes 101 this is it ... even the fallacy that Zoro is equal or close that was debunked by their precious VC when Oda said Zoro was is/will always the second to his captain.

And the difference you can deduce from their feats ,hype etc.

EOS Zoro being stronger then current #1 is delusional, mid diffing is beyond wanking.
There are 2 characters that I am sure will be stronger then Kaido and that is EOS BB and Luffy after he defeats that BB!

And from the gold generation WB and Roger, maybe Garp.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Quipchaque (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> WOW such a great counter argument
> 
> So let me get this I need to believe whatever you said because you are a WSS fan and I am not :V.
> 
> ...



Not once did I say Mihawk is top 2. Pretending that Mihawk can't cut steel walls or kill Doflamingo with a small island sized attack is trolling and nothing else. That is why you earned that avatar.


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

Man, you sound arrogant ).


DiscoZoro20 said:


> Pretending that Mihawk can't cut steel walls or kill Doflamingo with a small sized attack is


No one said that , yourself didn't say that, did you read what you typed?




QMS said:


> And I see WSS as mid-top tier/mid-high but seriously top 2 and I am the troll in here.


You did not even read at all and I am the troll ...



DiscoZoro20 said:


> It would most likely outright kill Doflamingo by splitting him in half.


You said this, prove it, no one in OP ever did that ... splitting a living human .



DiscoZoro20 said:


> That is why you earned that avatar.


@lion of lernia , @pedxi and I am the troll in here !

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jun 29, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Yonko is top 4 of the verse ... no facfiction and wank can change that


Nah,PK is still the nr.1

Yonkous are Top 5

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Jun 29, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Nah,PK is still the nr.1
> 
> Yonkous are Top 5


dude ,,, PK are dead now ... we are talking alive


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## Fel1x (Jun 29, 2019)

Prime WB=>Roger for me

not a popular opinion, but I really think so


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Prime WB=>Roger for me


It is not backed up, WB is PK level because he was Roger's equal so in reality, Roger >= WB and not the other way around, this coming from a WB fan .


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## Fel1x (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> It is not backed up, WB is PK level because he was Roger's equal so in reality, Roger >= WB and not the other way around, this coming from a WB fan .


so are you trying to say that Roger=>him because he became PK? reminder: WB didn't want to become one

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jun 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> so are you trying to say that Roger=>him because he became PK? reminder: WB didn't want to become one


Nope, I remind you that WB greatest hype comes from being the only one that could go tow to tow with Roger!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Jun 29, 2019)

QMS said:


> Nope, I remind you that WB greatest hype comes from being the only one that could go tow to tow with Roger!


for me his greatest hype is that his MF version is <<< his Prime. that makes him "monster +" even compared to current Yonko


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## Red Admiral (Jun 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Prime WB=>Roger for me
> 
> not a popular opinion, but I really think so



fair enough .... but Roger wasn't 100% when he was fighting WB

as Garp told us his real all out is when he is mad ... when he kill an entire army for a simple insult to his crew

but ya ... WB was the world strongest man while Roger was alive so you have a claim


p.s

for me ... it seem Manga hyped Wb CAUSE of Roger ... so manga have Roger on max level



Fel1x said:


> for me his greatest hype is that his MF version is <<< his Prime. that makes him "monster +" even compared to current Yonko


again .... Prime Beard was Yonko too

Shanks was a Yonko in age 24 (at least) and in this time WB was 62 ... for me this is also prime beard


p.s


*White Beard PICK was age 38 as a fact ... less known among the fandom*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Jun 29, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> fair enough .... but Roger wasn't 100% when he was fighting WB
> 
> as Garp told us his real all out is when he is mad ... when he kill an entire army for a simple insult to his crew
> 
> ...


Many characters now can solo an army. Sabo did it, Sanji bros did it. it depends on what army was that, but probably fodder army because we don't know exectly who they were


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## Red Admiral (Jun 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Many characters now can solo an army. Sabo did it, Sanji bros did it. it depends on what army was that, but probably fodder army because we don't know exectly who they were


if Garp was hyping it ... it should be some thing to be seen

Reactions: Like 1


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## Izaya X (Jun 29, 2019)

Mihawk = Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## LolonoisZolo (Jun 29, 2019)

Mihawk >= Shanks though

Reactions: Like 2


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## ice demon slayer (Jun 29, 2019)

Mihawk>Shanks

Reactions: Like 7


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## Gianfi (Jun 29, 2019)

Mihawk first needs to prove he can beat 4YC Vista. Then we can start arguing about Shanks. That’s how logic works


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## Quipchaque (Jun 30, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> Mihawk >= Shanks though



Possible but doubtful. They are either equals or Shanks wins extreme difficulty. Look at the general theme of the Manga. The leaders who cherrish their friends and value teamwork are typically the ones Oda likes to portray as strongest and most successful while the loner counterpart is typically equal or a tiny step behind. Chances are slim that Oda will portray the "loser" as stronger. It is like Sasuke becoming stronger than Naruto which would never happen at least not permanently.



Gianfi said:


> Mihawk first needs to prove he can beat 4YC Vista. Then we can start arguing about Shanks. That’s how logic works



Ok now this on the other hand is just dumb. Mihawk wouldn't have been acknowledged as strongest swordsman if he isn't even above a subordinate of Whitebeard's. Notice how Noone in Marineford ever questioned Mihawk's title like you do despite the Mihawk-Vista clash and how the only one whose feats people were shocked about were Mihawk and not Vista.


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## Gianfi (Jun 30, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Ok now this on the other hand is just dumb. Mihawk wouldn't have been acknowledged as strongest swordsman if he isn't even above a subordinate of Whitebeard's. Notice how Noone in Marineford ever questioned Mihawk's title like you do despite the Mihawk-Vista clash and how the only one whose feats people were shocked about were Mihawk and not Vista.


Yeah, I was just using dumb logic against them

Reactions: Like 2


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## LolonoisZolo (Jun 30, 2019)

I just asked a casual anime only watcher;  
''who is stronger Mihawk or Shanks'' ?
Instantly answered, ''Shanks always uses his sword to fight so he is a swordsman, so Mihawk can only be stronger according to his title right?''
She didn't even know Shanks' sword has a name.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kroczilla (Jul 1, 2019)

Seems this thread has finally morphed into it's true form. A "Shanks vs Mihawk" debate.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Etherborn (Jul 1, 2019)

Stay on topic guys. If you forget what the thread is about, you can always go back to the first page and look.


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## Mariko (Jul 3, 2019)

Simple logic question.

If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely? 

This title gives you obligations toward the WG in exchange of this freedom. So why Mihawk, if Yonkou level and stronger than Shanks, needed to be the government bitch to travel as he wants to, when Yonkou can do it 100% free? 

Shanks can even enter mariejeois and interrupt the elders whithout any consequences. Which means (unless we learn he's a fake Yonkou and is related to the WG or the CDs) he just doesn't give a shit about the Admirals and can litterlally do whatever he wants without any permissions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 3, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> Seems this thread has finally morphed into it's true form. A "Shanks vs Mihawk" debate.


Really that is one boring debate, well less boring then this one!


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## Gianfi (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Simple logic question.
> 
> If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely?
> 
> ...


Wait, too much logic thinking going on here


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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Simple logic question.
> 
> If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely?
> 
> ...



If I remember correctly according to his vivre card entry it is because he wanted to have an easier time finding new challengers. Other than that he prob also enjoys not getting hunted nonstop by marines.


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## Exping (Jul 3, 2019)

vista would stalemate mihawk on a good day and jozu would beat him on his average day undistracted.


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## Mariko (Jul 3, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> If I remember correctly according to his vivre card entry it is because he wanted to have an easier time finding new challengers. Other than that he prob also enjoys not getting hunted nonstop by marines.



Marines don't hunt Yonkou.

Just one of them (old sick nerfed WB) recquired 4 admirals and the 7 warlords + thousands of marines and all VA.

Yonkou can do whatever they want to whithout having the WG after them.

On the other hand Mihawk went to get the WG's permission to just travel, when Shanks casually enters Mariejois and interrupt the elders, and Kaidou creates an army to turn upside down the world without having the WG moving a finger.

1 Yonkou crew = the whole WG. 

Hopefully for them Yonkou are antagonists and don't make alliances. Which would be the worst nightmare/scenario fore the WG. 

This is why Yonkou exist and arn't already dead/jailed. 

And this is why the WG needs Vegapunk to create new weapons.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jul 3, 2019)

Mihawk dont need a crew...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Marines don't hunt Yonkou.
> 
> Just one of them (old sick nerfed WB) recquired 4 admirals and the 7 warlords + thousands of marines and all VA.
> 
> ...



Don't say that. They would definitely send marine fodder ships after him nonstop. A pirate is a pirate after all and there are most definitely ambiguous soldiers out there. Or ignorant ones the same way Don Krieg was ignorant lol.

Mihawk is also not exactly asking anyone for permissions. Just look at Sengoku's reaction when he showed up to the marijoa meeting so it is not like he is being depicted as a weak and obedient government dog that needs protection as you are implying.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Simple logic question.
> 
> If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely?
> 
> ...




Mihawk is not a government lap dog, Sengoku was surprised that Mihawk even attended the meeting, implying that he does not partake in other meetings.
Mihawk lacks a crew, you can see it in the vivre card as well.

So far only Shanks has been shown to be able to enter the holy land, and he had to sneak in, you yourself have already provided an explanation to why it is possible, I can go on and say that Shanks represents balance and may have some connection with the WG, further illustrated with Sengoku's words that he will do it because Shanks is the one who asked.

The Navy would send marines and even Admirals after him often, having to battle them often would be bothersome, the yonko have the luxury of their crewmembers taking them out, to battle a Yonko you must go through their crew, Mihawk possesses no such luxury.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Simple logic question.
> 
> If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely?
> 
> ...



Are you under the impression that the Warlord title is some how a bad thing? Mihawks not some pirate lord with large amounts of territory's he wants to rule over. He likes minding his own dame business. The dude lives in a destroyed country filled with battle monkeys and was bored enough to chase don kreig around the east blue enough said on that.

The Warlord title gives Mihawk diplomatic immunity and all he has to do is fuck up some pirates which going off from don he has little issue doing and sometimes go fight for the WG. Mihawk can basically do whatever he wants, the warlord title is so strong all Doflamingo had to say was Ceaser Clown was a part of his crew and Fujitora shut up about it and couldn't touch him.

If you aren't a yonkou or apart of a yonkou crew being invited to be a warlord is the golden ticket for any pirate let alone someone like Mihawk who being the loner type he is would rather people leave him alone and let him do what he wants, and the WG is happy to have him despite his low attendance rate to meetings.

True you could make the argument that the marines probably woulden't bother with mihawk regardless as he doesnt do much so he doesnt really need the title but its a easy gig for a lot of benefit.

Reactions: Like 9


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## Mariko (Jul 3, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Don't say that. They would definitely send marine fodder ships after him nonstop. A pirate is a pirate after all and there are most definitely ambiguous soldiers out there. Or ignorant ones the same way Don Krieg was ignorant lol.
> 
> Mihawk is also not exactly asking anyone for permissions. Just look at Sengoku's reaction when he showed up to the marijoa meeting so it is not like he is being depicted as a weak and obedient government dog that needs protection as you are implying.



Does the WG send marine fodders ships after tha Yonkou?

And if he could join Mariejois it is precisely because as a warlord he's a WG ally (more likely their bitch).

Nah son.

Mihawk had no choice but to ask the WG its permission to travel in exchange of his ass.

He's far far far away from being Yonkou level.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> True you could make the argument that the marines probably woulden't bother with mihawk regardless as he doesnt do much so he doesnt really need the title but its a easy gig for a lot of benefit.



The WG wouldn't mess with Mihawk if he was Yonkou level, no matter what he would do -as I illustrated it with Shanks and Kaidou, but also works for BM and BB.

And when you're Yonkou level there are absolutely no benefits to be a warlord since you become the WG bitch forced to obey them.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> The WG wouldn't mess with Mihawk if he was Yonkou level, no matter what he would do -as I illustrated it with Shanks and Kaidou, but also works for BM and BB.
> 
> And when you're Yonkou level there are absolutely no benefits to be a warlord since you become the WG bitch forced to obey them.



I don't recall Mihawk being a Yonkou so why are you trying to compare there situations? Dude doesnt have a crew or any ambitions for wealth or authority.

The Yonkou literally control a large section of the new world a piece with massive amounts of followers. Big Mom has a chain of self sustaining islands with a defense system setup for crying out loud XD.

If Mihawk had 20 percent of the new world under his authority yea he probably woulden't join up with the WG he would have no need to has nothing to do with his personal strength. The WG avoids getting involved in such things. After marineford the 5 Elders said Marco and the other yonkou are the only ones who could stop Blackbeard, they made no mention of the WG stopping them or the WG taking this chance to take over whitebeards territory's. I wonder why had nothing to do with Whitebeard as he was a dead man.

Shanks could drop dead tomorrow and i promise you Benn Beckman and the rest of his crew can still do whatever the fuck they want, the WG wants no part in invading yonkou seas even if the yonkou is gone.

EDIT: Anyway this argument doesnt really work for Mihawk. What does Mihawk do to the WG exactly? Even if mihawk left the warlords and lets say he is as strong as Doflamingo? Is it worth it to send battle ships and a Admiral to go hunt Mihawk on his deserted island(That he might not even be at)? Sounds like a waste of resources and worst case scenario he just joins up with Shanks who the WG well knows they have a relationship. The WG attacking Mihawk is just a bad idea even if he was just a high tier IMO

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jul 3, 2019)

Comparing one single dude to a whole crew is just wrong...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ren. (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Shanks could drop dead tomorrow and i promise you Benn Beckman and the rest of his crew can still do whatever the fuck they want, the WG wants no part in invading yonkou seas even if the yonkou is gone.


Aham because after WB died , BB did just not crush the WB pirates.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Does the WG send marine fodders ships after tha Yonkou?
> 
> And if he could join Mariejois it is precisely because as a warlord he's a WG ally (more likely their bitch).
> 
> ...



Yes. Just like they did when Whitebeard and Shanks were about to meet. Besides Mihawk is alone not a while yonko crew. 

Mihawk is yonko level. You know that and I won't even bother justifying that. It is too absurd to me if someone still claims otherwise.


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## Mob (Jul 3, 2019)

if we go by Ray teachings Shanks should be stronger than Mihawk

their rivalry ended years before current events and while Mihawk laid dormant at his castle Shanks was actively clashing with other yonkos and probably even admirals




Mihawk was never shown clash with anyone of that caliber and all his hype comes from his duels with younger Shanks who sure as hell got stronger based on this Luffy flashback


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

QMS said:


> Aham because after WB died , BB did just not crush the WB pirates.



Not sure what you are trying to say? 

BB would probably attack yea if thats what you mean


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## Ren. (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> BB would probably attack yea if thats what you mean


So you got it from the start, no a Yonko crew without his captain is dead from the start?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Mob said:


> if we go by Ray teachings Shanks should be stronger than Mihawk
> 
> their rivalry ended years before current events and while Mihawk laid dormant at his castle Shanks was actively clashing with other yonkos and probably even admirals
> 
> ...



Yea cause you know who Mihawk has been fighting over the years 

and for all you know Shanks(and mihawk) were already in their prime back when they fought. Shanks was already a yonkou back then. So any growth he got was minor along with the fact he had to make up for losing a whole dame arm.



QMS said:


> So you got it from the start, no a Yonko crew without his captain is dead from the start?



Would other yonkou attack the yonkou crew of another if they lost their captain yea probably when did i ever implie otherwise?

I said the WG want nothing to do with yonkou territory not that other yonkou wont attack each other.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mob (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea cause you know who Mihawk has been fighting over the years
> 
> and for all you know Shanks(and mihawk) were already in their prime back when they fought. Shanks was already a yonkou back then. So any growth he got was minor along with the fact he had to make up for losing a whole dame arm.


So what if Shanks was a yonko back then, he was in his 20s, tell me how many people reach their prime so young in OP world also give me some big names Mihawk fought please, Shanks clashed with WB undisputed WSM of the era and Mihawk didn't know the ''distance'' between them.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea cause you know who Mihawk has been fighting over the years
> 
> and for all you know Shanks(and mihawk) were already in their prime back when they fought. Shanks was already a yonkou back then. So any growth he got was minor along with the fact he had to make up for losing a whole dame arm.
> 
> ...


It seems to be common fanfiction that it was confirmed that Shanks and Mihawk fought when Shanks was already a Yonkou. All that was confirmed was that he was a Yonkou already when he met Luffy. 

Whitebeard didn't give a timeline on when Shanks and Mihawk had duels.  Could have been when Shanks was Buggy tier.


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## Law (Jul 3, 2019)

Chances of Mihawk being stronger are so much higher than Shanks being "much stronger." 

In all likeyhood they are equals or one is tiny bit stronger.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mob (Jul 3, 2019)

Law said:


> Chances of Mihawk being stronger are so much higher than Shanks being "much stronger."
> 
> In all likeyhood they are equals or one is tiny bit stronger.


who did Mihawk fought after Shanks lost his arm at the age of 27 again? Kaido, WB, BM, anyone ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Mob said:


> So what if Shanks was a yonko back then, he was in his 20s, tell me how many people reach their prime so young in OP world also give me some big names Mihawk fought please, Shanks clashed with WB undisputed WSM of the era and Mihawk didn't know the ''distance'' between them.



And what exactly is Prime Age for OP charcters did oda make some statement regarding it that i missed?

So what if SHanks was a yonkou back then? How about you think about it for a second? You do know what a Yonkou is right? Shanks went into the new world and took more and more land. White-beard, Big Mom, kaidou, and the WG failed to stop his rise to power or in super simple terms Shanks was capable of ducking it out with WB, Big mom, kaidou, and admirals he wouldent be a yonkou if he couldent. So unless you think current Shanks is Pirate King level he isnt much stronger then he was when he fought mihawk especially not after losing a arm and passing the torch to the next generation(Luffy).

I coulden't tell you what mihawks done in the last 15 years besides fuck with don krieg, train zoro, and fight in marineford. We know very little about him or his past but the databook outright says that the dude is bored and that he is waiting for someone stronger then shanks to fight. So whoever mihawk wanted to fight im sure hes already done it or at least tried to.

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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Law said:


> Chances of Mihawk being stronger are so much higher than Shanks being "much stronger."
> 
> In all likeyhood they are equals or one is tiny bit stronger.



This is the only reasonable answer. I don't know why people can't just embrace this. Oda puts so much hype around both of them yet the fanbases try make them look like trash compared to the other all the time as if it wouldn't be impressive to be rival with a Yonko or world's strongest title holder.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> It seems to be common fanfiction that it was confirmed that Shanks and Mihawk fought when Shanks was already a Yonkou. All that was confirmed was that he was a Yonkou already when he met Luffy.
> 
> Whitebeard didn't give a timeline on when Shanks and Mihawk had duels.  Could have been when Shanks was Buggy tier.



Its called logical deduction my friend i know thats a hard concept for you when you make assertions like the one you just made.

 im sure the Legendary Whitebeard would make comment about Shanks duels with Mihawk(Whom Shanks did not bring up to him) because as we all know buggy tier shanks was world famous and whitebeard would take special notice to remember that buggy tier mihawk and shanks had multiple legendary duels that had nothing to do with him.

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## Law (Jul 3, 2019)

Mob said:


> who did Mihawk fought after Shanks lost his arm at the age of 27 again? Kaido, WB, BM, anyone ?


Shanks was likely in his prime when he met Luffy since he was a yonko and competed with younger/healthier WB, younger/slim BM + Kaido. He was in Roger's ship as a teenager so he's been through a lot of training. Luffy after only 2 years of being with Rayleigh went up tiers and he/Zoro etc will reach their goal before their mid 20s.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> This is the only reasonable answer. I don't know why people can't just embrace this. Oda puts so much hype around both of them yet the fanbases *try make them look like trash compared* to the other all the time as if it wouldn't be impressive to be rival with a Yonko or world's strongest title holder.



No thats mostly Shanks wankers. 

The lowest i have ever seen someone(Thats not a troll) rate shanks is slightly below Akainu and Aokiji(oh the horror). including trolls someone once said Akainu can mid diff Shanks but he wasent a mihawk supporter just a Akainu wanker.  

I've seen people literally say that Mihawk is not top tier, that Doflamingo is stronger him, that hancock is, even kuma. Of course a lot of these people were trolls but some of them were legit posters but they were shanks fanboys.


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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No thats mostly Shanks wankers.
> 
> The lowest i have ever seen someone(Thats not a troll) rate shanks is slightly below Akainu and Aokiji(oh the horror). including trolls someone once said Akainu can mid diff Shanks but he wasent a mihawk supporter just a Akainu wanker.
> 
> I've seen people literally say that Mihawk is not top tier, that Doflamingo is stronger him, that hancock is, even kuma. Of course a lot of these people were trolls but some of them were legit posters but they were shanks fanboys.



Trust me I have seen this too. I still remember the legendary spiro.


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## Mob (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> And what exactly is Prime Age for OP charcters did oda make some statement regarding it that i missed?


Roger became PK in his 40s he would become one in 20s if reaching your prime wasnt important factor


> So what if SHanks was a yonkou back then? How about you think about it for a second? You do know what a Yonkou is right? Shanks went into the new world and took more and more land. White-beard, Big Mom, kaidou, and the WG failed to stop his rise to power or in super simple terms Shanks was capable of ducking it out with WB, Big mom, kaidou, and admirals he wouldent be a yonkou if he couldent. So unless you think current Shanks is Pirate King level he isnt much stronger then he was when he fought mihawk especially not after losing a arm and passing the torch to the next generation(Luffy).


what the fuck are you on about, Luffy is called 5th emperor and he got one shot by Kaido


> I coulden't tell you what mihawks done in the last 15 years besides fuck with don krieg, train zoro, and fight in marineford. We know very little about him or his past but the databook outright says that the dude is bored and that he is waiting for someone stronger then shanks to fight. So whoever mihawk wanted to fight im sure hes already done it or at least tried to.


How can Mihawk evaluate Shanks strength when he cant evaluate old WB strength whose strength is close to other 3 yonkos


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## Law (Jul 3, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Oda puts so much hype around both of them yet the fanbases try make them look like trash compared to the other all the time as if it wouldn't be impressive to be rival with a Yonko or world's strongest title holder.


Tbh I've never seen someone who is pro Mihawk stoop so low. It's constantly the pro Shanks side.

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## Quipchaque (Jul 3, 2019)

Law said:


> Tbh I've never seen someone who is pro Mihawk stoop so low. It's constantly the pro Shanks side.



Yeah I tend to agree but even my fellow Mihawk fans can be petty insisting that his title absolutely has to put him above Shanks.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Its called logical deduction my friend i know thats a hard concept for you when you make assertions like the one you just made.
> 
> im sure the Legendary Whitebeard would make comment about Shanks duels with Mihawk(Whom Shanks did not bring up to him) because as we all know buggy tier shanks was world famous and whitebeard would take special notice to remember that buggy tier mihawk and shanks had multiple legendary duels that had nothing to do with him.


It's called headcanon  perhaps Mihawk and Shanks were admiral level before Shanks shot up to Yonkou level idk. But to say he was Yonkou level then as fact is just fantasy. 

Hell I'm surprised you guys aren't saying that because Shanks had 2 arms then he was probably PK level and still weaker than Mihawk


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## Dunno (Jul 3, 2019)

Marie said:


> Simple logic question.
> 
> If Mihawk was "that" strong, why does he need a shishibukai title (meaning the world gov permission) to travel freely?
> 
> ...


Why wouldn't he want the position? It doesn't come with any requirements, he doesn't give up any freedom, he gets access to government facilities and he doesn't have to deal with the marines. Also, keep in mind that the WG was able to kill Whitebeard, even with all of his crew and allies.

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## Steven (Jul 3, 2019)

Mihawk´s portrayal alone puts him above shanks


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Mob said:


> Roger became PK in his 40s he would become one in 20s if reaching your prime wasnt important factor



So nothing from oda then? 

If you paid attention to the Manga you would recall that both Roger and Rayleigh were grown ass men when they started there journey. If they started earlier who knows maybe Roger would of been PK before he turned 30. Luffy for Dame sure will be. 



> what the fuck are you on about, Luffy is called 5th emperor and he got one shot by Kaido



Good luck proving shanks would get one shot by kaidou back then. 

News flash you can't. 

Big news Morgan hyping up luffy and him getting shit on has zero relation to shanks or any other yonkou for that matter. 



> How can Mihawk evaluate Shanks strength



How could shanks friend mihawk the man he's fought with countless times, who are both high level swordsmen, the man who still stays in contact with him years after they stopped fighting regularly evaluate his strength?' 

I have no idea to be Honest it's beyond me probably Haki I guess. 



> when he cant evaluate old WB strength whose strength is close to other 3 yonkos



Good point mihawk has known wb for years and he still failed to evaluate his strength. What hope would he have to unravel the mysterious powers of the Haki God shanks  

Your being ridiculous hence the sarcasm. Mihawks not mentally handicapped. He knows Dame well how strong shanks is and doesn't give a darn he said so himself he has no interest in fighting a cripple.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> It's called headcanon  perhaps Mihawk and Shanks were admiral level before Shanks shot up to Yonkou level idk. But to say he was Yonkou level then as fact is just fantasy.
> 
> Hell I'm surprised you guys aren't saying that because Shanks had 2 arms then he was probably PK level and still weaker than Mihawk



You know what's not headcanon

The databook outright saying that Mihawk>Shanks and that he is bored as shit(aka shanks ain't worth fighting) or as Zoro would say your not even able to kill my bordem.

The shanks wankers like hiding from the clear cut statements that the databooks make though. I wonder why



Edit: you know what let's just go over this for everybody again shall we in case some people missed it. 



Lets go line by line. 

1. Reconfirms once again that he is the WSS no shit right useless info. 
2. Mihawk was famous before Roger's death new info but nothing crazy you could argue that preskip luffy was famous so whatever. 
3. First big one. Mihawk trained and trained, fucked people up and then fucked some more people up until HE HAD NO MORE WORTHY CHAL
ENGERS. It's been stated databooks in the past that Mihawk and shanks are rivals if that wasn't already painfully clear. So crazy that shanks is no longer a WORTHY CHALLENGE TO MIHAWK. 
4. So because he has nobody to fight he just fucks around. Once again shanks ain't important to him. 
5. Mihawk has the rinnegan we knew this already. 
6. Oh look shanks is called his rival again but oh wait he is waiting for a swordmaster to surpass shanks. Why is he waiting? Shanks is stronger then him right? Mihawk go fight him like you use to... But oh wait mihawk has NO MORE WORTHY CHALLENGERS. 
7. Mihawk can use Haki no shit. 

The picture is clear the best you could argue going off the databook is that Shanks equals mihawk and that's being generous as fuck. None of this shanks>>>mihawk bs I see around(not saying you think that)

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## Steven (Jul 3, 2019)

Sera being Sera


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You know what's not headcanon
> 
> The databook outright saying that Mihawk>Shanks and that he is bored as shit(aka shanks ain't worth fighting) or as Zoro would say your not even able to kill my bordem.
> 
> The shanks wankers like hiding from the clear cut statements that the databooks make though. I wonder why


Datebook never said that. More fanfic from Mihawkinc. All it says is that Mihawk is looking for the sword master that surpasses Shanks. Not that he is stronger than him. Shanks could fight in a different style because he lost his dominant arm and Oda despite giving him a sword didn't know how he would fight.



Acnologia said:


> Mihawk´s portrayal alone puts him above shanks


Is this a joke?  Mihawk was stalemated by Vista and Jozu tanked his slash aimed at WB like a champ.

Meanwhile Shanks had that same Jozu struggling to stay conscious just from his mere presence. Shanks clashed equally with a stabilised WB while Mihawk admitted inferiority to deathbed WB

I could go on but I'm sure you'll block it out

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## Mob (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So nothing from oda then?


manga is from oda and as I said previously name me one character who reached his/her prime in their 20s. you cant cause there isn't one


> If you paid attention to the Manga you would recall that both Roger and Rayleigh were grown ass men when they started there journey. If they started earlier who knows maybe Roger would of been PK before he turned 30. Luffy for Dame sure will be.


Whitebeard was around the same age or even older than Roger and this middle aged man was capable of rivaling PK, as I said above manga constantly showed old generation legends as middle aged men


> Good luck proving shanks would get one shot by kaidou back then.
> 
> News flash you can't.
> 
> Big news Morgan hyping up luffy and him getting shit on has zero relation to shanks or any other yonkou for that matter.


It must be hard for you to grasp basic concept of being rookie, he was definitely the weakest yonko of the bunch at that time because that's how BB started as well


> How could shanks friend mihawk the man he's fought with countless times, who are both high level swordsmen, the man who still stays in contact with him years after they stopped fighting regularly evaluate his strength?'
> 
> I have no idea to be Honest it's beyond me probably Haki I guess.
> 
> ...


yet he doesn't know how strong WB is, Shanks alleged emperor rival


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

So yeah Mihawk is top 2 if we remove the Yonkou, Admirals, Dragon, Garp, Rayleigh and all those stronger than Vista.

Mods we're done here. Lock it up.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Datebook never said that. More fanfic from Mihawkinc. All it says is that Mihawk is looking for the sword master that surpasses Shanks. Not that he is stronger than him. Shanks could fight in a different style because he lost his dominant arm and Oda despite giving him a sword didn't know how he would fight.



So your saying yonkou shanks from back in the day was weaker then mihawk but after losing his arm and changing his style(without the addition of a devil fruit) is now stronger then mihawk. 

So mihawk is yonkou level is what your saying

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## Flame (Jul 3, 2019)

We should come up with a new name for these Shanks vs Mihawk threads. What would be a fitting term?


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So your saying yonkou shanks from back in the day was weaker then mihawk but after losing his arm and changing his style(without the addition of a devil fruit) is now stronger then mihawk.
> 
> So mihawk is yonkou level is what your saying


Whatever level Vista is, that's probably the level of their duels.

Also it doesn't seem like Mihawk won their duels. Seems like they were draws based on their conversation.



Flame said:


> We should come up with a new name for these Shanks vs Mihawk threads. What would be a fitting term?


Roger successor Shanks vs Vistahawk


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Mob said:


> manga is from oda and as I said previously name me one character who reached his/her prime in their 20s. you cant cause there isn't one



I can't give you names as most relevant characters are over 20 so it's impossible for me to say when they reached there prime.

Is benn Beckman in his prime right now maybe? Perhaps he could get stronger or perhaps he hit his prime 2, 5, 10 years ago.

I can tell you for Dame sure luffy, Zoro, Nami, Sanji, usopp, Chopper are all going to hit there prime before 30.



> Whitebeard was around the same age or even older than Roger and this middle aged man was capable of rivaling PK, as I said above manga constantly showed old generation legends as middle aged men


true and for all you know kaidou, big mom, whitebeard  did not hit their prime until they were like 25. We have zero evidence to say he did or didn't.



> It must be hard for you to grasp basic concept of being rookie, he was definitely the weakest yonko of the bunch at that time because that's how BB started as well



And what if he was? So shanks goes from losing to big mom with say high diff to now currently beating her with extreme diff. That's not a huge power increase over the course of 10 years. Certainly not a power increase you could argue that Mihawk is incapable of doing as well.



> yet he doesn't know how strong WB is, Shanks alleged emperor rival



So because mihawk doesn't know the exact percentage of power of a man he's never met before is that some how translates to him not being able to gauge shanks strength?

How does that work exactly?

So because luffy couldn't tell that kaidou could fodderize his ass with ease he is now unable to inform us about how strong Zoro or any other crewmembers of his our? That's the current logic your using


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Whatever level Vista is, that's probably the level of their duels.
> 
> Also it doesn't seem like Mihawk won their duels. Seems like they were draws based on their conversation.



Yes mihawk tied with yonkou shanks but then shanks lost a arm.

And since everyone else is trash mihawks been bored for 15 years or however long it's been.

As the databook makes painfully clear otherwise it wouldn't of mentioned shanks. It would just say mihawk waits for the swordmaster who can surpass him or some shit, but it makes clear that shanks was the last real challenge for him and if you aren't stronger then shanks you aren't beating him either. Otherwise the statement itself contradicts itself.

If a swordmaster weaker then shanks can challenge mihawk then the statement makes no sense but I'm no master of the English language if you see a different way to see it let me know cause I don't. If someome says LeBron James is waiting for someone to surpass Kobe Bryant to challenge him I don't see how someone worse then kobe is suppose to beat LeBron

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## Geralt-Singh (Jul 3, 2019)

I remember WB asking Shanks if he got his scar from Mihawk, not Kaido / BM / Admirals 

I also remember WB hyping their duels as "legendary", I doubt WB would regard a fight from non-top tiers as such

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## Steven (Jul 3, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Is this a joke?  *Mihawk was stalemated by Vista* and Jozu tanked his slash aimed at WB like a champ.
> 
> Meanwhile Shanks had that same Jozu struggling to stay conscious just from his mere presence. Shanks clashed equally with a stabilised WB while Mihawk admitted inferiority to deathbed WB
> 
> I could go on but I'm sure you'll block it out


And Shanks lost against a fish

Mihawk>Shanks

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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

mihawk is warlord  like buggy, moria, crocodile.

he is not even the strongest warlord anymore, it's implied Weevil is strongest warlord now.


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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> mihawk is warlord  like buggy, moria, crocodile.
> 
> he is not even the strongest warlord anymore, it's implied Weevil is strongest warlord now.


how is that implied?


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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> how is that implied?


he has the strength of ''world's strongest man'' in his Youth. compared with strongest among all men. only guy that had draw with pirate king.

while mihawk is strongest only at a certain fighting style, when there are many different fighting styles.


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## barreltheif (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> he has the strength of ''world's strongest man'' in his Youth. compared with strongest among all men. only guy that had draw with pirate king.
> while mihawk is strongest only at a certain fighting style, when there are many different fighting styles.



Weevil is a gag character. The gag is that everyone thinks he has WB's looks and strength, even though he clearly doesn't.
If he actually turns out to be as strong as a 35 year old WB, then that would make him stronger than both Mihawk and Shanks. (He obviously won't though.)

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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> he has the strength of ''world's strongest man'' in his Youth. compared with strongest among all men. only guy that had draw with pirate king.
> 
> while mihawk is strongest only at a certain fighting style, when there are many different fighting styles.


kizaru is comparing him to young WB, and im not sure you want to insinuate that this "young wb" was already the WSM.

at least we know that mihawk is at least >= to one yonko

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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> kizaru is comparing him to young WB, and im not sure you want to insinuate that this "young wb" was already the WSM.
> 
> at least we know that mihawk is at least >= to one yonko


not really, we don't know the level of shanks more then 10 years ago. they had their duels before seaking took his arm.

Weevil saved as villain after luffy beats kaidou confirms that weevil is yonkou level.


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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> not really, we don't know the level of shanks more then 10 years ago. they had their duels before seaking took his arm.
> 
> Weevil saved as villain after luffy beats kaidou confirms that weevil is yonkou level.


well we have the fact that mihawk is still the WSS, and quite literally everything of his VC that was already brought up by @Donquixote Doflamingo strengthens the notion of mihawk> shanks, even currently, lol. and shanks was already a yonko when the seaking took his arm, and they stopped having duels because of shanks losing his arm..

Edit: also, it seems you are assuming 1) that luffy beats kaido 1v1, 2) that weevil will be an enemy/villain 3) that in the case of weevil being the villain/enemy he will be defeated by luffy.

Do you have any basis for any of these assumptions, or did you mistake this thread for a fanfic section?

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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> well we have the fact that mihawk is still the WSS, and quite literally everything of his VC that was already brought up by @Donquixote Doflamingo strengthens the notion of mihawk> shanks, even currently, lol. and shanks was already a yonko when the seaking took his arm, and they stopped having duels because of shanks losing his arm..
> 
> Edit: also, it seems you are assuming 1) that luffy beats kaido 1v1, 2) that weevil will be an enemy/villain 3) that in the case of weevil being the villain/enemy he will be defeated by luffy.
> 
> Do you have any basis for any of these assumptions, or did you m


It always turns into 1vs1 even if luffy sometimes gets small help. weevil's target is luffy, and this is luffy that has to proof he can beat whitebeard in his Young days, on top of every other yonkou he will surpass.


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## Law (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> not really, we don't know the level of shanks more then 10 years ago. they had their duels before seaking took his arm.
> 
> Weevil saved as villain after luffy beats kaidou confirms that weevil is yonkou level.



He was yonko over 10 yrs ago. But for some reason this means he wasn't Yonko level or close to it because he rivaled Mihawk :/. And if he was yonko level, he rivaled Mihawk using his pinky finger coated in haki as his sword. Weevil did nothing to warrant he's yonko level, but he's stronger than someone who fought a yonko?

On what basis are you saying Weevil will be an enemy Luffy needs to defeat after wano arc? Everyone who comes after Luffy doesn't mean they are on his level. Sentomaru must be PK level since he humiliated Luffy preskip and he's saved for Luffy in the Strawhats+alliance vs WG arc.

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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> It always turns into 1vs1 even if luffy sometimes gets small help. weevil's target is luffy, and this is luffy that has to proof he can beat whitebeard in his Young days, on top of every other yonkou he will surpass.


so the fight against DD was "small" help by law?

still no basis for weevil being on that level you are suggesting, neither that he will be an antagonist/villain/enemy, neither that it will be luffy that will beat him.

bye



Law said:


> He was yonko over 10 yrs ago. But for some reason this means he wasn't Yonko level or close to it because he rivaled Mihawk :/
> 
> On what basis are you saying Weevil will be an enemy Luffy needs to defeat after wano arc? Don't recall anything that suggests that. Sentomaru must be PK level since he humiliated Luffy preskip and he's saved for Luffy in the Strawhats+alliance vs WG arc.


well weevil wanted to search for luffy to get info on marco, so there is that. doesnt mean he cant be defeated off panel by marco though lol.

Or the WG when they want to get rid of the shichibukai.
there is probably way more possibilities, even luffy befriending weevil shouldnt be ruled out lol

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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> so the fight against DD was "small" help by law?
> 
> still no basis for weevil being on that level you are suggesting, neither that he will be an antagonist/villain/enemy, neither that it will be luffy that will beat him.
> 
> ...


Oda confirmed in sbs that luffy would have won with doflamingo anyway, even if he didn't get help. gear 4 was clearly too much for doflamingo.

if weevil was introduced as evil son of WB  and compared with him in strength, looking for luffy, he is not random retired side character's of panel battle.


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## Exping (Jul 3, 2019)

I guess vista was the second strongest swordsmen / potential new World strongest swordsmen if Mihawk had not call off the fight.

Vista and Mihawk are like Garp/WB and Roger.


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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> Oda confirmed in sbs that luffy would have won with doflamingo anyway, even if he didn't get help. gear 4 was clearly too much for doflamingo.


wrong, out of context, nonsensical.
The sbs was about G4's downtime, and literally had NOTHING to do with law's help in the fight lmao.
And also it can be interpreted in different ways lol. Oda didnt make a clear cut statement that luffy would have won without the gladiators and gatz buying time.



stealthblack said:


> if weevil was introduced as evil son of WB and compared with him i nstrength, he is not random retired side character's of panel battle.


what. the. fuck. is. this.

Reactions: Like 2


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## stealthblack (Jul 3, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> what. the. fuck. is. this.



so you think weevil was only introduced so he can be defeated by marco of panel.


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## Asaya7 (Jul 3, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> so you think weevil was only introduced so he can be defeated by marco of panel.


well, if this is what you got by reading all of my statements, this explains alot lol xD



Exping said:


> I guess vista was the second strongest swordsmen / potential new World strongest swordsmen if Mihawk had not call off the fight.
> 
> Vista and Mihawk are like Garp/WB and Roger.


Mihawk called off the fight because of the secret strategy of the marines.

and more like 3rd strongest swordsman, because there is still shanks ;D

edit: except you want to suggest vista>shanks.

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## Seraphoenix (Jul 3, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> And Shanks lost against a fish
> 
> Mihawk>Shanks


He lost his arm because Oda's editor told him it was too boring. Hence the arm loss. He lost it to plot. 

What you need to take away is that if it was Mihawk he would have lost half his body not just an arm.


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## Steven (Jul 4, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> He lost his arm because Oda's editor told him it was too boring. Hence the arm loss. He lost it to plot.
> 
> What you need to take away is that if it was Mihawk he would have lost half his body not just an arm.


Two piece


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## stealthblack (Jul 4, 2019)

that just proofs sea king > mihawk, if mihawk failed to wound shanks in their battles, but seaking took his arm like that.

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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> that just proofs sea king > mihawk, if mihawk failed to wound shanks in their battles, but seaking took his arm like that.


someone needs to reread shanks and whitebeards conversation

Reactions: Like 1


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## stealthblack (Jul 4, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> someone needs to reread shanks and whitebeards conversation


yeah, they talked about BB. Another guy that left shanks wounded after their battles, yet nothing from mihawk.


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## Mariko (Jul 4, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Why wouldn't he want the position? It doesn't come with any requirements, he doesn't give up any freedom, he gets access to government facilities and he doesn't have to deal with the marines. Also, keep in mind that the WG was able to kill Whitebeard, even with all of his crew and allies.



You serious?

1- I wonder what WG facilities you're talking about. Yonkou can do whatever they want without having the marines on their back and hence don't need any "facilities". Shanks can even freely go to Mariejois see the elders. 

2- Lol no. The whole WG + the 7 warlords didn't manage to kill him. Black Beard did after WB first took a fucking sword right in the chest by one of his own crewmate.

Not to mention WB was old and sick AF. 

So a fresh/prime Yonkou and his crew >>> the WG + the 7 warlords -Mihawk included.


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## Steven (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> So a fresh/prime Yonkou *and his crew* >>> the WG + the 7 warlords -Mihawk included.


A Yonkou have 1000 of Pirate allys...

Ofc you need a lot to deal with that

Reactions: Like 2


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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> yeah, they talked about BB. Another guy that left shanks wounded after their battles, yet nothing from mihawk.


yep as i said, someone needs a reread xD


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## Mariko (Jul 4, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> A Yonkou have 1000 of Pirate allys...
> 
> Ofc you need a lot to deal with that



A Yonkou has 3 high tier crewmates and less than a dozen of valuable ones. The rest are all fodders, as the regular marines are.

And you know this.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mariko logic when it comes to Mihawk



You're right.

Mihawk has no top tier feats, a (shitty) mid tier status -the same as Baggy (hence needs the WG permission to travel), wasn't able to stop pre-TS Luffy, was struggling against Vista, so the only possible conclusion is that he's Yonkou tier.

Talk about logic...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 4, 2019)

Now you just lyin 



And WSS > Shank  whether its Mihawk or EoS Zoro


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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> You're right.
> 
> Mihawk has no top tier feats, a (shitty) mid tier status -the same as Baggy (hence needs the WG permission to travel), wasn't able to stop pre-TS Luffy, was struggling against Vista, so the only possible conclusion is that he's Yonkou tier.
> 
> Talk about logic...


troll detected?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> You're right.
> 
> *Mihawk has no top tier* feats, a (shitty) mid tier status -the same as Baggy (hence needs the WG permission to travel), wasn't able to stop pre-TS Luffy, was struggling against Vista, so the only possible conclusion is that he's Yonkou tier.
> 
> Talk about logic...

Reactions: Like 8


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## Flame (Jul 4, 2019)

This thread is never gonna end

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mariko (Jul 4, 2019)

Acnologia said:


>



And? 

Since when ice is top tier?

Even Nami could do that with her tempo stick.


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## Turrin (Jul 4, 2019)

I have nothing against Mihawk being very strong; I personally think Mihawk may be connected to Imu-sama based on their similar eyes and Mihawk having the Dracula epitaph which may suggest he’s been around a long time since the void era. I also think Shanks tie to Mihawk is why he is able to get an audience with the Gorosei rather then simply being a Yonko. 

With that said I don’t agree with some of your points. Shanks likely was a swordsman when he fought Mihawk, but Shanks is young and after loosing his arm that doesn’t mean he remained a swordsman he could have focused on Haki all around fighting style or got an ancient weapon; basically I don’t really care whose stronger but I don’t think we know who is till we learn more above Shanks

Likewise I believe Fujitora is without a doubt weaker then the color trio at least for the moment

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hades92 (Jul 4, 2019)

LoL....now cutting iceberg as a top tier feet...guess Iceberg must be atleast high tier


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## stealthblack (Jul 4, 2019)

Acnologia said:


>


doflamingo can cut entire island down with his birdcage, he is top tier too? and vista that had draw with him is also top tier.

even chinjao split continent in half with his head, top tiers world. sai too now.


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## Steven (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> And?
> 
> Since when ice is top tier?
> 
> Even Nami could do that with her tempo stick.


Lol...

This is Shanks best feat

Woodlevel Shanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## stealthblack (Jul 4, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Lol...
> 
> This is Shanks best feat
> 
> Woodlevel Shanks


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## Topi Jerami (Jul 4, 2019)

Shanks' advanced CoO: Can't tell Higuma will run away while bringing Luffy
Shanks' advanced CoA: Can't defend his arm against East Blue fish
Shanks' advanced CoC: Can't make the fish faint, and can only destroy woods

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jul 4, 2019)

Why is cutting some clouds better than cutting Aokiji's ice?

Not to mention WB's weapon is called cloud cutter

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jul 4, 2019)

Wow,cutting clouds

Ice>Clouds

Reactions: Like 2


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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> LoL....now cutting iceberg as a top tier feet...guess Iceberg must be atleast high tier


show me the sick top tier feats of big mom then. her spear of elbaf whatever wasnt as impressive as mihawks casual ice berg slash xD just saying...

the size and therefore weight of the ice and the distance is what makes this impressive, obviously cutting ice in general wouldnt be.

"iceberg must be high tier" wtf kinda disingenuous nonargument is this even...


Edit: also, do you think ISDS was a low tier feat then?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hades92 (Jul 4, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> show me the sick top tier feats of big mom then. her spear of elbaf whatever wasnt as impressive as mihawks casual ice berg slash xD just saying...
> 
> the size and therefore weight of the ice and the distance is what makes this impressive, obviously cutting ice in general.
> 
> ...


simple...we can count something as feat when it effects the people...KKG is very powerful and yet it will be ineffective against Katakuri...

The "casual slash" meant for WB was blocked by Diamond Jozu...I could have taken it as great feat if the slash that is meant for WB able to hurt Jozu atleast a bit....

Mind you I am denying Mihawk "top tier" status..after all he is WSS...but no. 2 is reaching


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## barreltheif (Jul 4, 2019)

Slashes aimed at WB can't cut Jozu. Only a slash intended to cut diamond will cut diamond. It needs to match diamond's breath.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Dunno (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> You serious?
> 
> 1- I wonder what WG facilities you're talking about. Yonkou can do whatever they want without having the marines on their back and hence don't need any "facilities". Shanks can even freely go to Mariejois see the elders.
> 
> ...


1. They can't go into ID like Blackbeard did for example. It turned out to be quite handy for him. 

2. I don't think you are genuine. You know just as well as I that Blackbeard's interference was unnecessary. Whitebeard would have died anyway. I also don't think you actually believe that a Yonkou crew >>> the MF force.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 4, 2019)

Marie said:


> And?
> 
> Since when ice is top tier?
> 
> Even Nami could do that with her tempo stick.



Nami has higher attack power then Zoro now that's news to Me

Reactions: Like 2


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## Etherborn (Jul 4, 2019)

So do people still want this thread left open? I feel like at this point people are just going in circles, bringing up age old arguments and calling each other trolls. But if you guys want to keep farming your tier specialist ratings, that's cool too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 4, 2019)

Etherborn said:


> So do people still want this thread left open? I feel like at this point people are just going in circles, bringing up age old arguments and calling each other trolls. But if you guys want to keep farming your tier specialist ratings, that's cool too.


I have been monitoring the responses so far, some are repetitive, however I would like to ask you if it is at all possible to not lock the thread yet, and I promise I shall notify you if I encounter more circle-jerking and the sort so that you can close the thread? Thank you in advance.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Etherborn (Jul 4, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> I have been monitoring the responses so far, some are repetitive, however I would like to ask you if it is at all possible to not lock the thread yet, and I promise I shall notify you if I encounter more circle-jerking and the sort so that you can close the thread? Thank you in advance.



There's no rule breaking going on that I can see, so I'm not gonna close the thread if anyone still wants it open. The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if people thought it could still yield any thoughtful or informative discussion between members. I find that this is often a tall order with older topics that have already been debated into the ground, especially when no new information has been revealed regarding said topics. But as I said, if people still want to debate this, I'll leave it open, provided that I don't see any posts that break the rules of course.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 4, 2019)

Etherborn said:


> There's no rule breaking go on that I can see, so I'm not gonna close the thread if anyone still wants it open. The reason I asked was because I wanted to know if people thought it could still yield any thoughtful or informative discussion between members. I find that this is often a tall order with older topics that have already been debated into the ground, especially when no new information has been revealed regarding said topics. But as I said, if people still want to debate this, I'll leave it open, provided that I don't see any posts that break the rules of course.


Of course, as you have meticulously pointed out there is no rule breaking going on currently, if or when the aforementioned rule breaking does occur you are free to effectively close the thread and put a stop to the previously stated rule breaking. I have noticed a couple of arguments addressed at several people on the previous couple of pages that are not answered yet, therefore I perceive that the debates will continue, and that there are still people who are willing to debate topics such as this one. Thank you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mob (Jul 4, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I can't give you names as most relevant characters are over 20 so it's impossible for me to say when they reached there prime.
> 
> Is benn Beckman in his prime right now maybe? Perhaps he could get stronger or perhaps he hit his prime 2, 5, 10 years ago.


you cant name them because all heavy hitters of that age were a lot stronger than 20 year olds of the same era and yes current Ben is in his prime years just like Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu etc


> I can tell you for Dame sure luffy, Zoro, Nami, Sanji, usopp, Chopper are all going to hit there prime before 30.


that isn't true at all. they will fulfill their dreams but that wont stop their growth when they have their whole lives still ahead of them, don't be silly 


> true and for all you know kaidou, big mom, whitebeard  did not hit their prime until they were like 25. We have zero evidence to say he did or didn't.


you have zero evidence of that. I already said name me one person who reached their prime so young be it from old gen or new one and you would have a point 


> And what if he was? So shanks goes from losing to big mom with say high diff to now currently beating her with extreme diff. That's not a huge power increase over the course of 10 years.


you are forgetting one thing. yonkos of 10 years ago aren't the same as current ones, who is to say BM and Kaido didn't grow stronger as well because of constant skirmishes between them in that long ass time. You don't became yonko level at one point and just stop your growth because of that, yonkos constantly fight between them self I think that was well established in the manga, ten years of that same shit made everyone equally stronger hence nobody still has the upper hand over one another.


> Certainly not a power increase you could argue that Mihawk is incapable of doing as well.


I disagree because of this gem.


Regular clashes with admirals and yonkos aren't the same as clashes with fodders


> So because mihawk doesn't know the exact percentage of power of a man he's never met before is that some how translates to him not being able to gauge shanks strength?
> 
> How does that work exactly?



Mihawk said something to Doflamingo along the lines ''I want to measure the true distance between *that man and us*' in the marineford war. This line tells me he puts himself in the same basket as DD compared to WB who he singled out. Shanks is WBs near equal as are the rest of yonko.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

Mob said:


> Regular clashes with admirals and yonkos aren't the same as clashes with fodders





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You know what's not headcanon
> 
> The databook outright saying that Mihawk>Shanks and that he is bored as shit(aka shanks ain't worth fighting) or as Zoro would say your not even able to kill my bordem.
> 
> ...


...



Mob said:


> Mihawk said something to Doflamingo along the lines ''I want to measure the true distance between *that man and us*' in the marineford war. This line tells me he puts himself in the same basket as DD compared to WB who he singled out. Shanks is WBs near equal as are the rest of yonko.


so dd> shanks as well? kinda doubt it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mob (Jul 4, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> ...
> 
> 
> so dd> shanks as well? kinda doubt it.


Mihawk words mate not mine, Shanks doesn't think as highly of WB tho, yonko rivalry shit and all

Reactions: Like 1


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## Asaya7 (Jul 4, 2019)

Mob said:


> Mihawk words mate not mine, Shanks doesn't think as highly of WB tho, yonko rivalry shit and all


some think dd <cracker, dd>shanks is new to me though. but well if mihawk says so i guess i'll have to accept it


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## Mob (Jul 4, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> some think dd <cracker, dd>shanks is new to me though. but well if mihawk says so i guess i'll have to accept it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Intus Legere (Jul 4, 2019)

The iceberg cutting feat is obviously there to demonstrate that Mihawk belongs with Whitebeard and the Admirals in the group of Marineford powerhouses. Maybe some here don't find it that impressive that he used a casual slash that left an air slash that unintentionally cut clean an iceberg 10 kilometers away. However, as far as narrative goes, these characters and their feats belong together.

Top 2 might be too much for now, and I won't deny Mihawk had some pretty disappointing moments. Overall though, the author of this thread made a very good point.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Mihawk is the WSS, therefore he is at minimum stronger than Shanks by default.

If Mihawk was disappointing against Vista, that automatically means Shanks would do worse.

If Mihawk was disappointing against Jozu, that automatically means Shanks would do worse.

If Mihawk was disappointing against Crocodile, that automatically means Shanks would do worse.

This is just how Oda has chosen to write his story people.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hades92 (Jul 5, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> Mihawk is the WSS, therefore he is at minimum stronger than Shanks by default.
> 
> If Mihawk was disappointing against Vista, that automatically means Shanks would do worse.
> 
> ...


well if Shanks can stop Akainu magma punch with the sword..Mihawk can cut Akainu's hand by default while blocking...this is how one can make _*"default assumption"*_...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Jul 5, 2019)

By blocking he can't of course,but given that Ray sliced Kizaru, a direct hit should be able to slice Akainu's arm. If he lands it clean and uninterrupted.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> well if Shanks can stop Akainu magma punch with the sword..Mihawk can cut Akainu's hand by default while blocking...this is how one can make _*"default assumption"*_...



Or that Mihawk wouldn’t have to take a full fighting stance to block an attack meant for Koby 



Maybe Mihawk will actually be able to block a real attack from Akainu


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 5, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> Or that Mihawk wouldn’t have to take a full fighting stance to block an attack meant for Koby
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe Mihawk will actually be able to block a real attack from Akainu


If Shanks can clash evenly stabilised WSM WB and split the heavens (not just the clouds), then he can easily block anything  Akainu can throw at him. Given that Akainu is not even strong enough to beat a far far weaker WB. No haki, heart attacks etc. Still 2 hit Akainu.

Oda gave us a clear message at MF: Yonkou have to be put on their deathbed for admirals to compete. Them going to bed when Shanks said so, should be proof enough.

For instance if his COO was working like it was when he avoided over 100 attempts on his life by Ace in his sleep, then Aokiji would have been two-paneled with a bisento in his chest. Luckily for admirals Oda decided to give him limited haki usage.

Also given that Mihawk admitted MF WB> him and the Yonkou used to clash with WSM WB, we can conclude that they too are >Mihawk. mods lock it up for real this time. We're finished. Mihawk is not top 2.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Given that Akainu is not even strong enough to beat a far far weaker WB.



Yeah, it’s not like Akainu was fighting Whitebeard with his hands in his pockets and clashing equally with him using attacks far smaller than his actual attacks or anything


Can you imagine if Oda didn’t have Admirals hold back on Yonko? Man. Akainu would likely kill Whitebeard with one Daifunka. Lmfao

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 5, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> Yeah, it’s not like Akainu was fighting Whitebeard with his hands in his pockets and clashing equally with him using attacks far smaller than his actual attacks or anything
> 
> 
> Can you imagine if Oda didn’t have Admirals hold back on Yonko? Man. Akainu would likely kill Whitebeard with one Daifunka. Lmfao


So on one hand you want to say Shanks is unimpressive for casually blocking an attack aimed at Coby, but when it's Akainu blocking an upward attack aimed at Marine Fodder #5, with something stronger than his arm (leg) *and DF* I must be impressed 

He clashed equally with deathbed WB. A WB so weak every marine fodder could injure him. That should tell you his haki wasn't working properly. If it was he would have blocked the meigou and Akainu would have effectively also been two -paneled like Aokiji would have. 

Also thanks for showing panels of WB not even paying attention to Akainu and casually blocking him. All while he was crying that WB should pay attention to the enemy in front of him.


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## Sengoku (Jul 5, 2019)

Can we stop pretending that Vista is some weak scrub from a weak crew?
No matter how you spin it, Shanks, being an actual EMPEROR at the time, had his arm torn off by one of the weakest seakings in OP is more embarrassing than Mihawk calling for a temporary draw.

Mihawk clashed against a top tier sword fighter with all of his limbs intact. Looks fine and dandy.

Shanks clashed against pre-ts slow ass BB -> got scarred. Clashed against an East Blue seaking -> had his arm torn straight off.

Puhleeeze.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Sengoku (Jul 5, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> If Shanks can clash evenly stabilised WSM WB and split the heavens (not just the clouds), then he can easily block anything



Eh. Looks like clouds to me? Where are you getting the idea that the heavens are being split? 
Also, splitting a Kuzan made ice mountain, is more impressive than splitting water vapors.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> He clashed equally with deathbed WB. A WB so weak every marine fodder could injure him.



What a weird way to look at Akainu trolling Whitebeard with his hands in his pockets lmfao.

Next thing you know,  you’ll be telling me about how Brooke fought equally with healthy Big Mom. 

Oh wait, that actually did happen...lol

Reactions: Like 3


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 5, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Eh. *Looks like clouds to me? Where are you getting the idea that the heavens are being split? *
> Also, splitting a Kuzan made ice mountain, is more impressive than splitting water vapors.


This is the problem with most of you admiral fans. Half of you don't even read the manga . On the last page of the chapter where they divide the heavens (Chp 434):

Jozu: ''*Look at the sky..They split the clouds..No, they split the heavens!*''

Also splitting the heavens is much more impressive than that level of freezing. Enel on the Moon could have seen their clash.




Major Lee Hung said:


> What a weird way to look at Akainu trolling Whitebeard with his hands in his pockets lmfao.
> 
> Next thing you know,  you’ll be telling me about how Brooke fought equally with healthy Big Mom.
> 
> Oh wait, that actually did happen...lol


Akainu had to use his devil fruit and strongest muscle to stop an attack aimed at fodder 

Hands in his pockets? You realise that your foot generates more power than your arms right???? His hands in his pockets actually show how desperate he was cause *he had to use his leg* to stop it

BM beat Queen without haki or devil fruit in a few seconds. Akainu with haki and devil fruit couldn't get past Marco while Ace was giving a 10 minute speech You don't want to bring BM into this big boy.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> This is the problem with most of you admiral fans. Half of you don't even read the manga . On the last page of the chapter where they divide the heavens (Chp 434):
> 
> Jozu: ''*Look at the sky..They split the clouds..No, they split the heavens!*''
> 
> ...



No sorry bro, 

Hands in pockets Akainu = Fighting stance Shanks

Meaning Fighting stance Akainu >>> Shanks 

Yonko cannot stop the Gura Gura no Mi with one leg if Shanks needs his full strength to clash with base Whitebeard 

And why would I not want to bring up Big Mom? She makes the Admirals look like gods in the way that she fights evenly with Brooke and can’t even two shot YC2s which both Aokiji and Akainu have one shot lol. 

Big Mom actually got overwhelmed by Jinbe and the weak straw hats lmfao. Jinbe Who Akainu one shot. Don’t even get me started on what YCs did to her. Lmfao

Admirals one shot her, at least Full power Shanks can actually stop Akainu’s weakest attack, Big Mom wouldn’t even make it that far if Jinbe is too much for her


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## Steven (Jul 5, 2019)

Yonkou>Admiral

Reactions: Like 1


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 5, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Yonkou>Admiral




Not even close


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## Asaya7 (Jul 5, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Can we stop pretending that Vista is some weak scrub from a weak crew?
> No matter how you spin it, Shanks, being an actual EMPEROR at the time, had his arm torn off by one of the weakest seakings in OP is more embarrassing than Mihawk calling for a temporary draw.
> 
> Mihawk clashed against a top tier sword fighter with all of his limbs intact. Looks fine and dandy.
> ...


not to mention mihawk called for this "temporary draw" because of the marines plan with the pacifista *fly away

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sengoku (Jul 5, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> This is the problem with most of you admiral fans. Half of you don't even read the manga . On the last page of the chapter where they divide the heavens (Chp 434):
> 
> Jozu: ''*Look at the sky..They split the clouds..No, they split the heavens!*''



Heaven has yet to be confirmed in the One Piece world. You clearly misunderstood Oda's *figurative speech*.
Not every single word should be taken as literal language.


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## Hades92 (Jul 6, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Heaven has yet to be confirmed in the One Piece world. You clearly misunderstood Oda's *figurative speech*.
> Not every single word should be taken as literal language.


okay...in other words...it is figurative only when it fits your argument....got it...thanks


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## stealthblack (Jul 6, 2019)

shanks was not going for the sky, but he still cut the heavens in half as result of clashing his weapon with another top tier.

When mihawk and vista clashed swords, they released some flowers.


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## Sengoku (Jul 6, 2019)

Heaven is just another fancy word for sky/clouds/what have you. Nothing new.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2019)

WB bisento cut the clouds, Shanks didnt do jack except survive that clash


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## Kylo Ren (Jul 6, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> WB bisento cut the clouds, Shanks didnt do jack except survive that clash


and WB didn't even used his weapon skills against Akainu, WB think Akainu is not on his level


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2019)

Akainus casual foot stomp = WB bisento

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kylo Ren (Jul 6, 2019)

Shanks just appeared Akainu sweating


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2019)

^Thats was just in the Anime

Reactions: Like 2


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 6, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> ^Thats was just in the Anime


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2019)

Ok


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## Sengoku (Jul 6, 2019)

Hold up. So Shanks waited until Sakazuki duked it out with an emperor and several high tier fighters before stepping in?

Reactions: Like 3


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 6, 2019)

Don King said:


> and WB didn't even used his weapon skills against Akainu, WB think Akainu is not on his level




Yeah he stopped using it when he saw that Akainu negg diffed it with his hands in his pockets

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 6, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Heaven has yet to be confirmed in the One Piece world. You clearly misunderstood Oda's *figurative speech*.
> Not every single word should be taken as literal language.





Sengoku said:


> Heaven is just another fancy word for sky/clouds/what have you. Nothing new.


Jozu: They split the clouds... *no*, they split the heavens!

You: heaven is just another fancy word for cloud

So not only do you not read the manga, you apparently struggle with basic comprehension. The word ''no" means he is distinguishing between the clouds and 'heavens'. Go back to school 



Major Lee Hung said:


> No sorry bro,
> 
> Hands in pockets Akainu = Fighting stance Shanks
> 
> ...



Weak. 

None of the admirals could beat a top commander without distractions. Hell Kizaru himself said he could lose to Marco if he misstepped. Meanwhile BM's whole crew is too scared to even attempt to stop her.

Again Mihawk confirmed all the people at MF were below deathbed WB. Yonkou fought one far stronger than that and didn't get two-shot like Sakazuki


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> *Again Mihawk confirmed all the people at MF were below deathbed WB*. Yonkou fought one far stronger than that and didn't get two-shot like Sakazuki


Ok,Shanks was weaker than deathbed WB.Sounds good

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Jul 6, 2019)

Mob said:


> you cant name them because all heavy hitters of that age were a lot stronger than 20 year olds of the same era and yes current Ben is in his prime years just like Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu etc
> 
> that isn't true at all. they will fulfill their dreams but that wont stop their growth when they have their whole lives still ahead of them, don't be silly
> 
> ...



When Mihawk says "that man and us" he is  referring to all of the marines and shichibukai. Basically "how does our side >the commoners< stack up against this legend". We already know that Doflamingo is no match for Mihawk so to take this statement literal wouldn't make any sense.



stealthblack said:


> doflamingo can cut entire island down with his birdcage, he is top tier too? and vista that had draw with him is also top tier.
> 
> even chinjao split continent in half with his head, top tiers world. sai too now.



Did Doflamingo do so in Marineford when small island level was the highest scale of attacks for all top tiers in that arc? Is Vista being top tier somehow forbidden? Did anyone shout "Omg Mihawk=Vista!! " in Marineford like you do? Did Chinjao do so with an unnamed attack and again in an arc in which the power ceiling was a lot lower? Think a bit before you talk.

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## Dunno (Jul 6, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Jozu: They split the clouds... *no*, they split the heavens!
> 
> You: heaven is just another fancy word for cloud
> 
> ...


What Jozu said is just Jozu's opinion, nothing more. 

None of the Yonkou have been able to beat top commander without distractions either. On the other hand, the Yonkou have lost to Yonkou commanders on multiple occasions. Shanks didn't manage to beat Blackbeard, but got scarred instead and Big Mom got knocked out by a YC twice. BM's crew just seems really weak, seeing as how King and Queen were able to stop her on their own. 

Mihawk didn't confirm anything. As far as I know, there are two different translations. The first is "This is merely conjecture... but it seems rather small. // The _true distance_ between us and that man...", which means that Mihawk doesn't believe that Whitebeard is all that superior to himself, if at all. The second one is "Mihawk: I'm just going to measure... so I can see it with my own eyes the difference in actual strength between that man and I...", which say nothing about his preconceived notion of the difference, but only that he wants to measure it. 

The other Yonkou also didn't manage to take half of Whitebeard's head off.

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## Red Admiral (Jul 6, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Can we stop pretending that Vista is some weak scrub from a weak crew?
> No matter how you spin it, Shanks, being an actual EMPEROR at the time, had his arm torn off by one of the weakest seakings in OP is more embarrassing than Mihawk calling for a temporary draw.
> 
> Mihawk clashed against a top tier sword fighter with all of his limbs intact. Looks fine and dandy.
> ...



Shanks losing his arm is the defining moment in one piece history

that is the starting move that one day will cause the whole world government fall after 900 years

I don't know what is your standard but embarrassing?


​
I see nothing but beauty

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hades92 (Jul 6, 2019)

Dunno said:


> What Jozu said is just Jozu's opinion, nothing more.


you take your words..."it is your opinion ...nothing more...


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## Asaya7 (Jul 6, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks losing his arm is the defining moment in one piece history
> 
> that is the starting move that one day will cause the whole world government fall after 900 years
> 
> ...


he wasnt talking from a story viewpoint obviously, and how you tackled his point was even more embarrassing than a yonkou getting crippled by EB fodder fish.


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## Dunno (Jul 6, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> you take your words..."it is your opinion ...nothing more...


What do you mean? I don't expect people to assume that everything I say is canon, and I don't expect that people would take anything that a character says as canon either. My post does contain several facts though, which you could fact check if you'd like.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 6, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Hold up. So Shanks waited until Sakazuki duked it out with an emperor and several high tier fighters before stepping in?



Shanks came to Marine ford with* "unrealistically fast speed" *as Marine stated themselves 

so sorry if he didn't do some thing impossible any faster 

and in case you don't know this ... which is likely ... this is A STORY!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Oda do some thing just to be dramatic ... 

if a writer do thing base on power level and no plot ... I would read more than 5 chapter of the story


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## Steven (Jul 6, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if a writer do thing base on power level and no plot ... I would read more than 5 chapter of the story


OP is still a battle shounen.

Powerlevels are a thing here


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## Red Admiral (Jul 6, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> he wasnt talking from a story viewpoint obviously, and how you tackled his point was even more embarrassing than a yonkou getting crippled by EB fodder fish.


sorry Shanks can't fight back with the editor who forced the idea

when story do some thing for the sake of plot ... that's it ... logic don't imply much to that

Shanks didn't lose his arm cause of his weakness or thing like that ... he lost it cause Oda wanted to

and Oda called this action " A GAMBLE ON FUTURE "


so not sure how some one with a bit of fairness and logic would consider this as a bad feat ... but I have seem too much to even want things like fairness form haters



Acnologia said:


> OP is still a battle shounen.
> 
> Powerlevels are a thing here



for fandom ... and yes power level in one piece have a logic

but we saw many time this logic stopped for sake of the plot

Luffy stand in front of 3 admirals and make it alive????????????????????????/

so I guess this is a bad feat for admirals as well


or kizaru shot the key and not the Luffy

or Sengoku can't beat gear 3 Luffy

or Akainu can't kill Jenbi

or ...


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## Mob (Jul 6, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> When Mihawk says "that man and us" he is  referring to all of the marines and shichibukai.* Basically "how does our side >the commoners< stack up against this legend"*. We already know that Doflamingo is no match for Mihawk so to take this statement literal wouldn't make any sense.


This line tells us how inferior Mihawk thinks he is compared to WB. I can guarantee you that yonkos never talk that way about one another


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## Quipchaque (Jul 6, 2019)

Mob said:


> This line tells us how inferior Mihawk thinks he is compared WB. I can guarantee you that yonkos never talk that way about one another



This only tells us that he respects the legend of Whitebeard. It is no different from Garp and Sengoku shouting around what a monster Whitebeard is but they are still monsters themselves and easily capable of holding their own against him.

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## Asaya7 (Jul 6, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> This only tells us that he respects the legend of Whitebeard. It is no different from Garp and Sengoku shouting around what a monster Whitebeard is but they are still monsters themselves and easily capable of holding their own against him.


not to mention in other translations mihawk says the distance seems rather small

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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 6, 2019)

> This line tells us how inferior Mihawk thinks he is compared to WB. I can guarantee you that yonkos never talk that way about one another


Mihawk has a cool level head, unlike BM and Kaidou

plus this was maybe the first chance he ever had to throw a real slash at Whitebeard ... (after all WB isnt a swordsman, so Mihawk never had a reason to seek him out specifically to duel)

also BM did say that with her giant Elbaf army - she would have gained the ability to topple "*even* Whitebeard"

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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 6, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> also BM did say that with her giant Elbaf army - she would have gained the ability to topple "*even* Whitebeard"


Man you beat me to the punch, I was gonna post a panel and elaborate on it, but I do not know how to insert pics while using my phone.

EDIT: Does anyone know how I can upload pics from my phone, or any good site to do it from? Thank you in advance.

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## Dunno (Jul 6, 2019)

Mob said:


> This line tells us how inferior Mihawk thinks he is compared to WB. I can guarantee you that yonkos never talk that way about one another


As far as I know, there are two different translations. The first is "This is merely conjecture... but it seems rather small. // The _true distance_ between us and that man...", which means that Mihawk doesn't believe that Whitebeard is all that superior to himself, if at all. The second one is "Mihawk: I'm just going to measure... so I can see it with my own eyes the difference in actual strength between that man and I...", which say nothing about his preconceived notion of the difference, but only that he wants to measure it. Mihawk does not imply that he's inferior to Whitebeard. In fact, he implies that he thinks that the difference is either small or that there might not actually be a difference at all.

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## Steven (Jul 6, 2019)

>Mihawk Thread
>19 Pages

Normal day here


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## Sengoku (Jul 6, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Jozu: They split the clouds... *no*, they split the heavens!
> 
> You: heaven is just another fancy word for cloud
> 
> So not only do you not read the manga, you apparently struggle with basic comprehension. The word ''no" means he is distinguishing between the clouds and 'heavens'. Go back to school










"Synonyms of heaven above, bliss, elysian fields, Elysium, empyrean, kingdom come, New Jerusalem, paradise, *sky*, Zion (also Sion)"





Red Admiral said:


> Shanks came to Marine ford with* "unrealistically fast speed" *as Marine stated themselves
> 
> so sorry if he didn't do some thing impossible any faster
> 
> ...



Unrealistically fast speed in that he couldn't save Ace on time?
Unrealistically fast speed when he couldn't save his own limb from the Lord of the Coast?
Unrealistically fast speed when he couldn't stop BB from eviscerating Ace?

Riiiiiiiiiight.

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## Quipchaque (Jul 7, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> not to mention in other translations mihawk says the distance seems rather small



To be fair this could mean he is using a  play on words because physically they look so close and he might be wondering "is that the case for our strength gap as well?". At least this is how I understand his "the gap seems rather small" comment.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 7, 2019)

Mob said:


> This line tells us how inferior Mihawk thinks he is compared to WB. I can guarantee you that yonkos never talk that way about one another



Yonkou being more cocky then Mihawk doesn't mean they are stronger then him.

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## Hawk Eye (Jul 7, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Are you aware that, according to a plethora of different one piece sites and fandom, only a minuscule percentage of the aforementioned fandom believes that Mihawk is a top tier and in the upper echelon of the previously stated top tier? There are two widespread arguments used by the individuals that do not believe in Mihawk's strength and those are :
> 1.Vista stopped him at MF
> 2.His title applies only to swordsmanship and not the actual strength of the wileder, i.e. Shanks is stronger than Mihawk but not a better sword user.
> 
> ...


Though I agree with what you said but I don't think Mihawk is second strongest. He is top tier for sure but not second strongest in the verse. He is strongest swordsmen there are few more who can be stronger than him. 

There is Blackbeard who will eventually fight Luffy at Raftel. And, Mihawk did say at baratie that becoming PK is more difficult than surpassing him. 

There is also Akainu whom I see stronger than Mihawk. He is one of the most hype character in op verse by both feats and portrayal. 

To me Blackbeard and Akainu seem to be stronger than Mihawk. So Mihawk should be around fourth strongest considering Kaido remains at top after post wano defeat which once again seem to be less likely.

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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 7, 2019)

Hawk Eye said:


> Though I agree with what you said but I don't think Mihawk is second strongest. He is top tier for sure but not second strongest in the verse. He is strongest swordsmen there are few more who can be stronger than him.
> 
> There is Blackbeard who will eventually fight Luffy at Raftel. And, Mihawk did say at baratie that becoming PK is more difficult than surpassing him.
> 
> ...


I used to place him exactly like you; what changed my mind is the new info we had about CoA being a ''speciality of swordsmen'', and the fact that Mihawk is the only alive character that made a Black Blade.
We also know that his name was supposed to be ''clairvoyant'' which hints to very high Coo as well.
But I can perfectly respect and understand your view; we have no way to know for sure as of right now, we still need more info.

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## Hawk Eye (Jul 7, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> I used to place him exactly like you; what changed my mind is the new info we had about CoA being a ''speciality of swordsmen'', and the fact that Mihawk is the only alive character that made a Black Blade.
> We also know that his name was supposed to be ''clairvoyant'' which hints to very high Coo as well.
> But I can perfectly respect and understand your view; we have no way to know for sure as of right now, we still need more info.


I agree with what you said. I am not denying Mihawk won't be having high level of CoO and Ryo. I even think that he will be having CoC as well.

But when it comes Blackbeard and Akainu their portrayal speaks of something which surpasses Mihawk a little. It's just my opinion though. For instance, Akainu has shown in MF that he can have advanced CoO. He also shown awakening. Possibility of him not having CoA and CoC is very low as well. Infact he will definitely have it in my opinion. Along with his portrayal of eos opponent.

Infact the information revealed in wano so far hype Mihawk further and confirms what we used to believe about him but that hype still remains to the swordsmen sphere but it's huge enough to place him around fourth strongest in op verse considering Kaido is first

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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 7, 2019)

Hawk Eye said:


> I agree with what you said. I am not denying Mihawk won't be having high level of CoO and Ryo. I even think that he will be having CoC as well.
> 
> But when it comes Blackbeard and Akainu their portrayal speaks of something which surpasses Mihawk a little. It's just my opinion though. For instance, Akainu has shown in MF that he can have advanced CoO. He also shown awakening. Possibility of him not having CoA and CoC is very low as well. Infact he will definitely have it in my opinion. Along with his portrayal of eos opponent.
> 
> Infact the information revealed in wano so far hype Mohawk further and confirms what we used to believe about him but that hype still remains to the swordsmen sphere.


Oh sure for me Akainu is top 1 in the verse (above the likes of Kaido and BM but this is a subject for another thread 
As for BB, I still think he needs something to be able to tank max top tier attacks (a 3rd Zoan DF would be perfect) so for now I'm keeping him a bit under the top top tiers; especially knowing that Mihawk doesn't have a DF too which makes him less vulnerable to Yami.
To give you an idea here's my top 5 :
1- Akainu 
2- Mihawk
3- Kaido/BM
4- Admirals (all of them) / Shanks / Dragon?!?!?!?
5- BB with 2 DFs / Dragon?!?!?!?
(All of these are high/extreme diffs to each other, the numbers only show who would win in the end)

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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 7, 2019)

*both* Akainu and Mihawk are definitely in the *current top 5*

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## Awakeningcoming (Jul 7, 2019)

At least top 3 he is for sure, since Shanks is 4.
Now I don't know if I place him above Dragon, but good post.

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## Steven (Jul 7, 2019)

Awakeningcoming said:


> At least top 3 he is for sure, since Shanks is 4.
> Now I don't know if I place him above Dragon, but good post.


Dragon is hard featless


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## Dunno (Jul 7, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Dragon is hard featless


That really isn't a detriment though.

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## Steven (Jul 7, 2019)

Dunno said:


> That really isn't a detriment though.


Ofc it is

Is he even in the Admiral/Yonkou Ballpark or below


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## Dunno (Jul 7, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Ofc it is
> 
> Is he even in the Admiral/Yonkou Ballpark or below


Not having feats just means that you are harder to place. Just like Im, Dragon could be weaker than the estabished top tiers, but he could also be stronger. Someone who has more feats showing that he is a top tier has less of a chance of being weaker than that, but also less of a chance of being stronger. Dragon has a higher chance of being the WSM than Akainu for example, because Akainu has feats that establish him as a slightly above average top tier, specifically his fight vs Aokiji. Dragon could on the other hand be stronger than that.

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## Ren. (Jul 7, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The databook outright saying that Mihawk>Shanks and that he is bored as shit(aka shanks ain't worth fighting) or as Zoro would say your not even able to kill my bordem.


No, it didn't and not even the manga will ever say that!

And by the way canon aka manga >> SBS > Databooks that have things as Sabo being dead when he was alive.

Oda in SBS does not discuss PL and you say that the least cannons material that is not written by Oda will do so :V.

And by the way manga feats > portrait in the manga >>>> statements in VC just saying



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The shanks wankers like hiding from the clear cut statements that the databooks make though. I wonder why


I would advice to not mention wanking in a thread  that is, WSS is #2 .



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Lets go line by line.
> 
> 1. Reconfirms once again that he is the WSS no shit right useless info.
> 2. Mihawk was famous before Roger's death new info but nothing crazy you could argue that preskip luffy was famous so whatever.
> ...


Let start forom the start Manga is the canon material this is not!



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Reconfirms once again that he is the WSS no shit right useless info.


WB was the WSM and equal to Roger so  your point is?


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 3. First big one. Mihawk trained and trained, fucked people up and then fucked some more people up until HE HAD NO MORE WORTHY CHAL


LOL, he never meet Vista, Cracker, Smothey, BM, Fujitora, Jack, Queen, Kind all having blades and yet you said that he has not more worthy challenge when he did not ever defeat Shanks and fought no one remotely top tier  :V.

Again mang :






>>  VC every day


Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The picture is clear the best you could argue going off the databook is that Shanks equals mihawk and that's being generous as fuck. None of this shanks>>>mihawk bs I see around(not saying you think that)



Sorry, the only BS is WSS > several top tier because of WSS  vs manga panels!

And I am done because NF is crashing now!

If it was any other subject or another title the facts would be more important, here WSS is 100% legit.


For now Shanks has better feats, more hype and more narrative importance than WSS and nope Zoro's cap is not extremely diffing Mihawk so stop with the damn dream crap when none of you say that the PK is the strongest pirate  because it is not related to strength yet all the top tiers pirates want it and no top tier swordsman want WSS as of now ... that is so BS and double standards as always.

WSS has the title and that is all ... the BS about VC, Zoro dream etc is not more important then what the manga has shown.

So, for now, I see them equal and that is more than fair for the WSS.



Acnologia said:


>



Much larger, no COA , no name also and Law is a low high tier!

And the DF problem WSS > Fuji with DF so I think disregarding DF feats and stating that is disingenuous but it will happen I am sure of that!

Also :



top tiers vs top tiers >> cutting ice!



Acnologia said:


> ^Thats was just in the Anime


NOPE ... wrong .



Sengoku said:


> Hold up. So Shanks waited until Sakazuki duked it out with an emperor and several high tier fighters before stepping in?


Nibbah ... Akainu was playing dead after WB put him in hole ... and BB was fighting WB and he was a high tier, your boy did not wound Marco or Vista!

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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> No, it didn't and not even the manga will ever say that!
> 
> And by the way canon aka manga >> SBS > Databooks that have things as Sabo being dead when he was alive.
> 
> ...


soon from Shanks haters

Shanks Vs Akainu : Shanks didn't stop Akainu , his sword did it
Shanks Vs White Beard : Shanks wasn't involve in cutting the sky it was White Beard weapon
Shanks Vs Kaido : Shanks didn't stop Kaido , Kaido drunk himself
Shanks Vs Marine : Shanks didn't stop the War , Sengoku did 


and they fucking dare call other people on denial


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Nibbah ... Akainu was playing dead after WB put him in hole ... and BB was fighting WB and he was a high tier, your boy did not wound Marco or Vista!



Sakazuki came out of the hole looking fine to me. Wasn't limping or grabbing his torso from all of the pain WB inflicted.
On the other hand, WB played dead after knowing he fucked with the wrong organization. Oh wait, he actually died and lost the war!



Red Admiral said:


> soon from Shanks haters
> 
> Shanks Vs Akainu : Shanks didn't stop Akainu , his sword did it
> Shanks Vs White Beard : Shanks wasn't involve in cutting the sky it was White Beard weapon



Soon from logic haters

Shanks vs. LOTC: NAH ODA MADE SHANKS LOSE  HIS ARM BECAUSE WHO NEEDS ANOTHER ARM? NOT IMPORTANT TO THE STORY.
Shanks vs. BB: NAH FROM A STORYLINE PERSPECTIVE THE SCARS ARE IMPORTANT. HE HAD TO GET SCARRED UP BY A PRE-TS BB.
Shanks vs. MF: HE COULDNT SAVE ACE ON TIME BECAUSE ODA WROTE IT.

Bruh like what?


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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Sakazuki came out of the hole looking fine to me. Wasn't limping or grabbing his torso from all of the pain WB inflicted.
> On the other hand, WB played dead after knowing he fucked with the wrong organization. Oh wait, he actually died and lost the war!
> 
> 
> ...


killing a sick old man who didn't want to hurt his child with his OP power is not that big of a honer

gathering 6 top tiers and yet Sengoku admit they may lose ... not once but twice is


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## Hawk Eye (Jul 8, 2019)

Soon from Mihawk haters

Mihawk is equal to Vista even when Mihawk was not at all serious in the war. But WB who died didn't go all out 

Shanks is equal to Akainu because he stopped Akainu punch. Yeah but an attack meant for coby. By their flawed logic Shanks =coby then

Shanks is a swordsman but he doesn't come under Mihawk title.. Duh as if in fight they will call for time out to switch style from swordsmanship to haki

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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Soon from logic haters
> 
> Shanks vs. LOTC: NAH ODA MADE SHANKS LOSE  HIS ARM BECAUSE WHO NEEDS ANOTHER ARM? NOT IMPORTANT TO THE STORY.
> Shanks vs. BB: NAH FROM A STORYLINE PERSPECTIVE THE SCARS ARE IMPORTANT. HE HAD TO GET SCARRED UP BY A PRE-TS BB.
> ...



Shanks Vs BB : BB admit he is no match for Shanks while he consider himself strong enough to end the Marine 
Shanks Vs MF : so Shanks is to blame cause he didn't so some thing impossible faster


and again since when calling a story , a story is wrong?

your level of BS is bigger than Sengoku beard


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> killing a sick old man who didn't want to hurt his child with his OP power is not that big of a honer
> 
> gathering 6 top tiers and yet Sengoku admit they may lose ... not once but twice is




Its called not underestimating your opponents, genius. But who gives a fuck? The WB army lost BADLY.
WB had help from the main character (literally a deus ex plot device), top officers from the Revos, even some help from the Shichibukais, etc....and yet they still couldn't save Ace.

Not even your savior, Shanks, could either. But it's okay. Shanks is cool. Just not as cool as the other characters in One Piece.



Hawk Eye said:


> Soon from Mihawk haters
> 
> Mihawk is equal to Vista even when Mihawk was not at all serious in the war. But WB who died didn't go all out
> 
> ...



What I don't understand is why they would even claim that haki is going to matter in the whole Mihawk vs. Shanks fight. It is like when has Shanks ever used his haki so effectively that he destroyed top tier characters? Where are the feats? The only feats I have seen from Shanks was when he made fodders lose consciousness. That is it. lol

Wow so impressive!


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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Its called not underestimating your opponents, genius. But who gives a fuck? The WB army lost BADLY.
> WB had help from the main character (literally a deus ex plot device), top officers from the Revos, even some help from the Shichibukais, etc....and yet they still couldn't save Ace.
> 
> Not even your savior, Shanks, could either. But it's okay. Shanks is cool. Just not as cool as the other characters in One Piece.



once is ... being fucked is is the reason for 2nd call genius
+
top what ... the same man who almost died looking at white beard! you call that help ... lol
+
sorry ... being more cool than Shanks is not possible by laws of physics

if only Oda wasn't saving Shanks for the end story ... 

I don't know how people dare underrate Shanks but time is in my side


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## Flame (Jul 8, 2019)

Hawk Eye said:


> Duh as if in fight they will call for time out to switch style from swordsmanship to haki


Kickboxing


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> once is ... being fucked is is the reason for 2nd call genius



Ok but who won the war decisively? You like to latch on people's thoughts and quotes but you obviously don't care about the *results* of the war.



> top what ... the same man who almost died looking at white beard! you call that help ... lol



Are you missing the other officers from Revos and traitors amongst the Shichibukai group?



> sorry ... being more cool than Shanks is not possible by laws of physics



You even make Justin Bieber fangirls look ridiculous and calm. 

BB > Shanks in the cool and power department.



> if only Oda wasn't saving Shanks for the end story ...
> I don't know how people dare underrate Shanks but time is in my side



You have time *IN*side your body? That's umm... cool?

BB > Shanks EOS.

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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> No, it didn't and not even the manga will ever say that!
> 
> And by the way canon aka manga >> SBS > Databooks that have things as Sabo being dead when he was alive.
> 
> ...


Andrewww and Law's PH feat

Mihawk did that via physical strengt,Law via Hax

Mihawks feat is a DC while Law's is not

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Ok but who won the war decisively? You like to latch on people's thoughts and quotes but you obviously don't care about the *results* of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Marine Ford wasn't a one sided war ... but WB had so many bad lucks ...

the main power of WB pirate was WB and WB was fucked


+

honestly ... all of them was just good for fodders ..

+

don't take it form me ... take it from Oda ... he said it about Shanks ... go take to him

and you calm down with insults cute boy ... if I want to go you won't stand a round

Shanks and being the most bad ass is A KNOWN fact in one piece fandom

if you want to ignore this fact .... not my fucking problem 
+

no ... Oda have it and he would play on my side ... as he did every single time

+

EOS BB > any one


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Marine Ford wasn't a one sided war ... but WB had so many bad lucks ...
> 
> the main power of WB pirate was WB and WB was fucked
> 
> ...



At this point, you are just making excuses for WB and his armies. Bad lucks? Is that the excuse we are going to use now? I guess Shanks not being a WSS is also considered bad luck as well?

There will always be some sort of sabotage/enemy deflecting to the other side/espionage in wars. The Marineford War is no different.

WB lost the war. Shanks couldn't save Ace. Deal with it.



> and you calm down with insults cute boy ... if I want to go you won't stand a round



You really think by telling others that he/she won't stand a round against you makes you somehow a threatening figure over the internet?
You sound like someone who genuinely believes he can harness his willpower and strength to beat anyone just because you watched so much anime. Everyone knows you won't do jack **** to anyone in here who disagrees with you. Especially me. Absolutely laughable.



> Shanks and being the most bad ass is A KNOWN fact in one piece fandom



Yeah, maybe if he had his other limb intact and that he wasn't scarred by a fat slow pre-ts BB then maybe just maybe I would agree with you. Except, he is just a coward ass doofus who waited until everyone was exhausted just to make an appearance at Marineford. Your "hero" is just a coward who couldn't save his own arm and the person he cares about -> Ace.



> EOS BB > any one



You damn right. BB will put a mud stomping on that red haired boy. Sakazuki would put a gaping hole in his torso too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

>Shanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> At this point, you are just making excuses for WB and his armies. Bad lucks? Is that the excuse we are going to use now? I guess Shanks not being a WSS is also considered bad luck as well?
> 
> There will always be some sort of sabotage/enemy deflecting to the other side/espionage in wars. The Marineford War is no different.
> 
> ...


only a fool would think Shanks even wanted to save ace ... 

Shanks was there to end the war and he did it 

+

Teach is stronger than any one

but Shanks cut cut Akainu as his lunch since ... and Akainu is too busy shitting himself so he won't fight back


it's funny how you call others fan boy and you yourself go extreme fan girl on some people and hater on others

you don't worth my time


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

Whats the difference between fanboy and fangirl?


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> it's funny how you call others fan boy and you yourself go extreme fan girl on some people and hater on others
> 
> you don't worth my time



Hey Red Admiral, you are talking to yourself in front of the mirror again.


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## Beast (Jul 8, 2019)

This is still a discussion?


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## Awakeningcoming (Jul 8, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Dragon is hard featless


And? Father of MC is always among top 5 in verse.
Being most wanted man already hypes him and being featless, as someone said, only makes it harder to place him


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## Hades92 (Jul 8, 2019)

Roger/WB
Kaido
BigMom/Akainu/Shanks/BB/Dragon
Mihawk/Kizaru/Aokiji
Fujitora/Greenbull/Rayleigh/Old Garp/Old Sengoku

so no....Mihawk ain't top 2 even in parallel verse


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

Awakeningcoming said:


> And? *Father of MC is always among top 5 in verse*.
> Being most wanted man already hypes him and being featless, as someone said, only makes it harder to place him


Minato is not even close in the Top 5

Neither is Goku´s Father


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## Sherlōck (Jul 8, 2019)

Current top 2 in the verse are Kaido & Akainu.

Reactions: Like 3


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 8, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> Roger/WB
> Kaido
> BigMom/Akainu/Shanks/BB/Dragon
> Mihawk/Kizaru/Aokiji
> ...


Roger and WB are dead lol
So Shanks is top 2 but Mihawk isn't?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Sakazuki came out of the hole looking fine to me. Wasn't limping or grabbing his torso from all of the pain WB inflicted.
> On the other hand, WB played dead after knowing he fucked with the wrong organization. Oh wait, he actually died and lost the war!


 I wonder sometimes if disingenuous is a trend!



Acnologia said:


> Andrewww and Law's PH feat
> 
> Mihawk did that via physical strengt,Law via Hax
> 
> Mihawks feat is a DC while Law's is not


Mate KKG is DF based!

LOL, mkay then make him replicate it with his bare hands?

I don't understand at all, on one hand, Fuji doesn't matter if he has DF or not WSS is superior, feat wise Law also doesn't matter because they are hax ... nibbah both need the skill to cut.

If WSS does this with only strength then let him do it without his sword! 



MasterBeast said:


> This is still a discussion?


It was never in the first place, WSS and Akainu are top 2 from the start .


LolonoisZolo said:


> Roger and WB are dead lol
> So Shanks is top 2 but Mihawk isn't?


I even wonder from were did you see him typing that ?

PS Only WSS is top 2 .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> I wonder sometimes if disingenuous is a trend!
> 
> 
> Mate KKG is DF based!
> ...


Law´s DF is spatial hax and ignores Dura

Not all DF´s are hax

Fuji´s is pure firepower


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## Sengoku (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> I wonder sometimes if disingenuous is a trend!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Law´s DF is spatial hax and ignores Dura
> 
> Not all DF´s are hax
> 
> Fuji´s is pure firepower


What do you think gravity is ...  if not hax.

Again if WSS is above regardless the hax why should it bother you if I include said feats?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Jul 8, 2019)

In a swordsmanship skill Mihawk obviously is stronger than Law,as he did it without any DF.


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Corax said:


> In a swordsmanship skill Mihawk obviously is stronger than Law,as he did it without any DF.


LOL ... It seems the subject is moved again!

WSS is not skilled based it means that WSS is stronger in strength, COA, COO, swordsmanship anything you want he is better this is the general norm in here.


So if Shanks eat's Law's fruit he will still be below  WSS because of what I said before and this already happened if Vista has the same level of strength yet Fuji was strong enough to become an Admiral + got a OP DF yet by default he is below WSS ...

Meaning whatever anyone that identifies as a swordsman or fight with a sword he will be put below  Mihawk, odd enough this only applies to WSS no other title has this power in this thread.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> LOL ... It seems the subject is moved again!
> 
> WSS is not skilled based it means that WSS is stronger in strength, COA, COO, swordsmanship anything you want he is better this is the general norm in here.
> 
> ...


It's not that swordsmen can't surpass Mihawk. If Shanks got the right DF, he could become stronger than Mihawk and thus become the WSS. The same is true for Fujitora or anyone else. We know that they haven't because Oda keeps confirming that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. There is no default, there is confirmation by Oda.

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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The same is true for Fujitora or anyone else. We know that they haven't because Oda keeps confirming that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. There is no default, there is confirmation by Oda.


You understand that this is no proof for what you said, if that is true then WB was still the strongest in MF and  Kaido is the strongest now ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> LOL ... It seems the subject is moved again!
> 
> WSS is not skilled based it means that WSS is stronger in strength, COA, COO, swordsmanship anything you want he is better this is the general norm in here.
> 
> ...


In a sword skill they are below. WB was also a blade weapon user (he had one of 12 supreme grade swords). Shanks has no DF,so may be they are equal overall,hard to say. But WB had DF and prime WB for sure was stronger than Mihawk.


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 8, 2019)

@QMS ??? I don't understand your question mate


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Fuji´s is pure firepower


LOL ... gravity is what  ... extreme gravity stops time and space, there is nothing more hax then that in our reality for now!

Also, you implied that WSS does not use hax  COA is hax might I remind you and  Better COA then Law' DF + COA aka no cutting so similar to what WSS does.


And last I checked WSS does not say that you have the best COA in any branch, the bast COO or the best FS ,the best attack speed ,the best movement speed than most durable body, your AP > then a top tier with gravity DF etc.



LolonoisZolo said:


> @QMS ??? I don't understand your question mate


So Shanks is top 2 but Mihawk isn't?

You asked this, he never even implied this, no one is saying that X is number  Y!

Well except the supporters of this thread.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> What do you think gravity is ...  if not hax.
> 
> Again if WSS is above regardless the hax why should it bother you if I include said feats?


Gravity is firepower as well ffs


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Shanks vs. LOTC: NAH ODA MADE SHANKS LOSE HIS ARM BECAUSE WHO NEEDS ANOTHER ARM? NOT IMPORTANT TO THE STORY.
> Shanks vs. BB: NAH FROM A STORYLINE PERSPECTIVE THE SCARS ARE IMPORTANT. HE HAD TO GET SCARRED UP BY A PRE-TS BB.
> Shanks vs. MF: HE COULDNT SAVE ACE ON TIME BECAUSE ODA WROTE IT.
> 
> Bruh like what?



I’m sigging this. This is the best shit ever lmfao. 

“Shanks isn’t weak, the plot of the One Piece manga just makes him look weak!”

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Gravity is firepower as well ffs


Mate BB fruit is related to gravity ... stopping the power of a DF is hax.

Gravity is primordial force is as high as there can be.

You didn't even see Fuji use it at all, now imagine him awakening it.

Yes, he is below WSS ) ... because WSS swordsmanship is above Fuji's swordsmanship + Gravity ).

I  am asking for prof and no WSS is no proving that WSS is stronger than a dude that became Admiral tanks to his Gravity DF ...

When the fuck the strongest swordsman negates COA , DF and any other skills for example I can bet with you that Fuji's COO > WSS's .


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> So Shanks is top 2 but Mihawk isn't?
> 
> You asked this, he never even implied this, no one is saying that X is number  Y!
> 
> Well except the supporters of this thread.





Hades92 said:


> Roger/WB
> Kaido
> BigMom/Akainu/Shanks/BB/Dragon
> Mihawk/Kizaru/Aokiji
> ...


How is this not implied. I genuinly don't understand it's straight forward stated lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> How is this not implied. I genuinly don't understand it's straight forward stated lol


Let' check  @Hades92  did you put Shanks as #2 ?

Also excuse my french :

but this is a list :
Kaido
BigMom/Akainu/Shanks/BB/Dragon

Kaido is the strongest and there are 5 characters below him on a similar level ... I genuinely don't see how did you deduce that Shanks is # 2 from that


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 8, 2019)

It is already written on the post @QMS wtf?


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> It is already written on the post @QMS wtf?


Mate, there is no order to the second line ...

yet you deduced that Shanks is the strongest from all the 5 characters 

I think I will stick will trolling this is getting nowhere.

funny enough I agree with his list but  I will drop Shanks from there for obvious reasons!

a wild @Light D Lamperouge  has appeared

Reactions: Like 1


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## stealthblack (Jul 8, 2019)

saw the fujitora example.

mihawk is above you if swordmanship is all you can do, like him. but when you can call meteors, that is not swordmanship  anymore.

sword duel without any other powers- mihawk wins
fight mihawk with sword while sending him in gravity holes and dropping meteors on him? fujitora could win.


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> saw the fujitora example.
> 
> mihawk is above you if swordmanship si all you can do, like him. but when you can call meteros, that is not swordmanship  anymore.


You are wrong Purple Tiger could have Buggy's DF and WSS would still be stronger because  DF is irrelevant to that title  ... you get that title, Roger picks a sword to fight WSS  > Roger!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS


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## Hades92 (Jul 8, 2019)

LolonoisZolo said:


> How is this not implied. I genuinly don't understand it's straight forward stated lol


I will make it simple

Roger/WB/Prime Garp

1) Kaido
2) Bigmom
3) Akainu/Dragon/Shanks/BB
4) Akainu/Dragon/Shanks/BB
5) Akainu/Dragon/Shanks/BB
6) Akainu/Dragon/Shanks/BB
7) Mihawk
8) Aokiji/Kizaru
9) Kizaru/Aokiji
10) Fujitora/Greenbull
11) Greenbull/Fujitora
12) Old Garp/Old Rayleigh

if Mihawk "genuinely" shows his worth that warrants no.2, then I will take my L and move him to top 5

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Mate BB fruit is related to gravity ... *stopping the power of a DF is hax*.
> 
> Gravity is primordial force is as high as there can be.
> 
> ...


That have nothing to do with gravity

Summons Meteors is no hax,thats pure firepower


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> I will make it simple
> 
> Roger/WB/Prime Garp
> 
> ...


It was simple from the start!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Jul 8, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> I will make it simple
> 
> Roger/WB/Prime Garp
> 
> ...


Akainu can't have a shot at being 3rd whilst his almost equal Kuzan is 8th/9th. They're so close they can't be separated by many people in between. Same probably applies to Shanks and Mihawk. 

Old Garp can't be same as Old Rayleigh if he's Wb/Roger tier in your list. Do you think Rayleigh is that high up too? Garp was active when Ray was inactive for 2 decades, so if Ray was not up there with Wb/Roger in his prime, he should be beneath Garp in old age as well.


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## stealthblack (Jul 8, 2019)

maybe mihawk stands a shot with greenbull. but kizaru will kick him at the speed of light, and fujitora will spam meteros at him while eating noodles far away in the sky on his battleship.
And I can't see him get out of aokiji's ice  either.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Law (Jul 8, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> maybe mihawk stands a shot with greenbull. but kizaru will kick him at the speed of light, and fujitora will spam meteros at him while eating noodles far away in the sky on his battleship.
> And I can't see him get out of aokiji's ice  either.


Yeah and Black Leg will be able to defeat whichever admiral he'll face EoS and whichever one Zoro defeats. Mihawk's chances of definitely beating an Admiral would have increased tremendously had he searched for All Blue instead of having a yonko as a rival to improve as a swordsman & fighter. Maybe add becoming a cook instead of lol swordsman for a good measure

Reactions: Like 2


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> maybe mihawk stands a shot with greenbull. but kizaru will kick him at the speed of light, and fujitora will spam meteros at him while eating noodles far away in the sky on his battleship.
> And I can't see him get out of aokiji's ice  either.


Like he did against Old Ray, right?
The meteors that Doffy and Law could cut up, right?
The same ice that Mihawk accidentally not only cut but also lifted in the air and destroyed into pieces from a distance, while as I said not even aiming for it, and via an air slash, right?
Come on, if you are gonna troll, at least try something interesting.

Reactions: Like 5


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## stealthblack (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Like he did against Old Ray, right?
> The meteors that Doffy and Law could cut up, right?
> The same ice that Mihawk accidentally not only cut but also lifted in the air and destroyed into pieces from a distance, while as I said not even aiming for it, and via an air slash, right?
> Come on, if you are gonna troll, at least try something interesting.


You do know fujitora only send 1 meteor on law and dofla, while eating noodles he send 3?
as in law and dofla only managed to deal with 1 working together while shiting their pants. fujitora can do that all day. how much can they last?

aokiji would directly freeze mihawk like he did with jozu and saul, not make some ice  and wait for mihawk to cut it lol
old rayleigh that got tired after a few minutes with kizaru?

you're the one trolling, buddy.



Law said:


> Yeah and Black Leg will be able to defeat whichever admiral he'll face EoS and whichever one Zoro defeats. Mihawk's chances of definitely beating an Admiral would have increased tremendously had he searched for All Blue instead of having a yonko as a rival to improve as a swordsman & fighter. Maybe add becoming a cook instead of lol swordsman for a good measure


I don't know what black leg has to do with anything, but if you mock his dream, then mock strongest man's dream to have a family, or bm's dream about her family, or kaidou's dream to make crew of zoans or die.
all we know all blue could be close to raftel, as in only pirate king crew can find it and only two crews got there. no mihawk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jul 8, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> This is still a discussion?


Join me

Reactions: Like 1


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> You do know fujitora only send 1 meteor on law and dofla, while eating noodles he send 3?
> as in law and dofla only managed to deal with 1 working together while shiting their pants. fujitora can do that all day. how much can they last?
> 
> aokiji would directly freeze mihawk like he did with jozu and saul, not make some ice  and wait for mihawk to cut it lol
> ...


Two high tiers, one of them barely makes it to the high tiers, sliced that meteor, Mihawk's accidental slash was an island level move, I do not see why he could not cut up three. Fuji can spam meteors, but Mihawk can cut them easily.

Saul, who willingly gave up, and Jozu who was distracted and only then did Aokiji manage to freeze him, right? I am not sure what tier Saul was, but Jozu is a high tier, and if Aokiji could not freeze Jozu without a distraction, he is not freezing Mihawk at least not without a distraction.

Yeah Rusty old Ray kept up with Kizaru in cqc and was not kicked at light speed, right? Moreover, he cut Kizaru, right? Now imagine a top tier in his prime. It should be clear by now. I do not even know why you brought up Ray's stamina, just strawmanning I guess.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Corax (Jul 8, 2019)

I don't think that in any challenge his opponents used their DF. Entire idea of that challenges are to determine the best swordsman not the best DF user.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Law (Jul 8, 2019)

stealthblack said:


> I don't know what black leg has to do with anything, but if you mock his dream, then mock strongest man's dream to have a family, or bm's dream about her family, or kaidou's dream to make crew of zoans or die.
> all we know all blue could be close to raftel, as in only pirate king crew can find it and only two crews got there. no mihawk.


They were captains/yonko and had rivals as such (i.e. Wb/Roger). Not too different from Mihawk, on top of his dream of constantly wanting to become stronger. Sanji would be the same in EB (since he was shocked at Zoro for not wanting to give up his dream when the latter was destroyed Mihawk and saw the vast difference). Thanks to Luffy (for inviting him in his crew), Zoro (for having brotherly rivarly) and his dad (for the suit), he didn't stay as he was in EB. So given that many think Sanji will defeat an admiral EoS solo (and the Sanji fanboys having the belief he's Zoro nigh equal & therefore whoever Grandmaster defeats, the best Cook in the world can defeat as well. So that's 2 admirals). Excuses for why Mihawk can't be #2, or stronger than some admirals, or stronger than Shanks, but you don't stop there and go to the extent to say he might only be able to defeat 1. Do you think Sanji will solo an admiral EoS? He should have far less of a chance than a guy who rivals a yonko and might turn out stronger than said yonko.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Jul 8, 2019)

Corax said:


> I don't think that in any challenge his opponents used their DF. Entire idea of that challenges are to determine the best swordsman not the best DF user.


He isn't called the "most skilled" swordsman. He's the strongest out of *all of them.*

Reactions: Like 8


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

How the fuck you can ignore the WSS titel but at the same time you say WSM or WSC is legit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 8, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> How the fuck you can ignore the WSS titel but at the same time you say WSM or WSC is legit



They’re all fake. Akainu negs


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## Steven (Jul 8, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> They’re all fake. Akainu negs


WSC maybe but WSS and WSM are legit


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## LolonoisZolo (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Mate, there is no order to the second line ...
> 
> yet you deduced that Shanks is the strongest from all the 5 characters
> 
> ...


You didn't get the point though. In his list Shanks is a line above Mihawk. If they were at least on the same line I wouldn't have said a thing... Now I'm not sure if you are genuine since my point was quite clear :s

Reactions: Like 1


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## Exping (Jul 8, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Its called not underestimating your opponents, genius. But who gives a fuck? The WB army lost BADLY.
> WB had help from the main character (literally a deus ex plot device), top officers from the Revos, even some help from the Shichibukais, etc....and yet they still couldn't save Ace.



Actually Ace just wanted to go back in and die. He was already saved by Luffy remember?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Flame said:


> Join me






Flame said:


> He isn't called the "most skilled" swordsman. He's the strongest out of *all of them.*


So I was right ... DF are irrelevant and if Shanks eats any OP DF WSS will still be superior because ...



Acnologia said:


> *WSC maybe* but WSS and WSM are legit


Ahem double standards



Corax said:


> I don't think that in any challenge his opponents used their DF. Entire idea of that challenges are to determine the best swordsman not the best DF user.



No, my man, Shanks is below, he can have Marco's DF, Jozu's DF, Buggy's DF and WSS will still be superior and see how anyone dodges this .

The hypocrisy of this is the highest in OP fandoms for some reasons swords are the pinnacle of strength in OP.


QMS said:


> funny enough I agree with his list but I will drop Shanks from there for obvious reasons!





LolonoisZolo said:


> You didn't get the point though. In his list Shanks is a line above Mihawk. If they were at least on the same line I wouldn't have said a thing



Sorry but now you changed again your subject :V.
For you Shanks is never above WSS but WSS is always: V.


LolonoisZolo said:


> So Shanks is top 2 but Mihawk isn't?



And yes people can put Shanks above WSS like it or not, WSS is as absolute as you give WSC and you disagree with that, some disagree with WSM ... so stop being hypocritical and say that  WSS is the only legit title.

Either all 3 of them were or none is ... so top 2 is far from the WSS in any option.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 8, 2019)

Shanks is < Mihawk as he is a pure Swordsman.

Fujitora > Mihawk because Fujitora has an OP DF, although Mihawk’s swordsmanship > Fuji’s

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Like he did against Old Ray, right?
> The meteors that Doffy and Law could cut up, right?
> The same ice that Mihawk accidentally not only cut but also lifted in the air and destroyed into pieces from a distance, while as I said not even aiming for it, and via an air slash, right?
> Come on, if you are gonna troll, at least try something interesting.




LOL ...

IF you guys like so much feats we can calculate the force a meteorite generates vs the force needed to cut that much ice.



Acnologia said:


> Summons Meteors is no hax,thats pure firepower


I disagree take an example the character from bleach that was a reality manipulator his final attack was summoning a meteorite and again that was not my point, also BB means infinite gravity he is a black hole bu his element should be darkness so he can be black mather even more dangerous ...

I all fiction gravity related power are given to strong as fuck characters but in OP having a sword is more important.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> LOL ...
> 
> IF you guys like so much feats we can calculate the force a meteorite generates vs the force needed to cut that much ice.


Re-read what I said again, especially the last line.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Re-read what I said again, especially the last line.


Mate the same thing can be done by DD and Law as casual as Mihawk did this is why I said this is not a top tier feat.

Yet you don't like it when I say this, when I said that Chinjao cracked much more ice again no one liked that so what should I believe then ?

A meteorite is still rock and has velocity see the after impact and you say that I am trolling.

You guys legitly wank a sword to never seen hights and downplay forces that can whip a planet ...

If Fuji accelerates the meteorite from a further distance he can wipe a country easy, something that WSS can't do with his sword.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Mate the same thing can be done by DD and Law as casual as Mihawk did this is why I said this is not a top tier feat.
> 
> Yet you don't like it when I say this, when I said that Chinjao cracked much more ice again no one liked that so what should I believe then ?
> 
> ...


Man as I said earlier, Mihawk's casual slash that made an air slash that traversed a vast distance was an island level attack, it is not hard to understand that a fully serious Mihawk is doing much more than that. 

Wait, you just called Fujitora a planet buster, and yet ''we'' wank swords to never before seen heights, yeah that is it, I am done addressing your trolling anymore, tag me when you want to talk about something else because it is clearly evident that your obsession on hating the WSS title is never going to be productive for discussions.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Man as I said earlier, Mihawk's casual slash that made an air slash that traversed a vast distance was an island level attack, it is not hard to understand that a fully serious Mihawk is doing much more than that.


And that was not my point, I said that was not an indication of a top tier move ... because it can be replicated by many high tiers .



Light D Lamperouge said:


> Wait, you just called Fujitora a planet buster, and yet ''we'' wank swords to never before seen heights,


NIbaah ... and I am the one with reading comprenhension, how about a quote on that ?

Also why so defensive, I don't get it, you guys are all about facts and your fact is a title, talk about double standards!


No, let me do it for you.


QMS said:


> If Fuji accelerates the meteorite from a further distance he can wipe a country easy, something that WSS can't do with his sword.


Nothing of me saying that Fuji is planet level because no one is in OP, the most we have seen is WB and he is far from that.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> it is clearly evident that your obsession on hating the WSS title is never going to be productive for discussions.


Sorry come again on a wank thread that you  beleive he is #2.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> You understand that this is no proof for what you said, if that is true then WB was still the strongest in MF and  Kaido is the strongest now ?


There is proof. Oda wrote that Whitebeard was stronger than all men at the moment of his introduction. That is 100% certain proof that Whitebeard was canonically stronger than all men at his introduction. Oda has written that Mihawk is the strongest out of all swordsman several times, including at his introduction and the first time he was mentioned post-TS. That is proof that Mihawk was the strongest man out of all swordsmen at those times.

Whitebeard was likely still the strongest at MF, but that's because of his portrayal and feats there. Because of his illness, it's possible that he had weakened to the point where he wasn't the strongest any more, although it's very unlikely. Oda has never stated that Kaido is the strongest, he has stated that Kaido is known to be the strongest, which is a different thing entirely. It's possible that he's the strongest anyway, but it's far from confirmed.

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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> And that was not my point, I said that was not an indication of a top tier move ... because it can be replicated by many high tiers .
> 
> 
> *NIbaah ... and I am the one with reading comprenhension, how about a quote on that ?*
> ...





QMS said:


> *You guys legitly wank a sword to never seen hights and downplay forces that can whip a planet ...*

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Check again ... forces ... seriously stop saying that I lack reading comprehension next time!

If Fuji means forces  ... we were talking about gravity in general then I said that he could wipe a country with accelerating a meteor-like in real life.

And you concluded that Fuji is planet buster  



Light D Lamperouge said:


> and yet ''we'' wank swords to never before seen heights, yeah that is it, I am done addressing your trolling anymore, tag me when you want to talk about something else because it is *clearly evident that your obsession on hating the WSS title* is never going to be productive for discussions.


Marvelous coming from someone that did how many threads that talks about WSS power level and one that he is  #2?

And I did how many threads talking about how weak WSS is? me saying that he is as strong as Shanks is hating the WSS title.

And I already said that  I hate the WSS for obvious reasons that I highlighted in this thread, the discrepancies from WSC and WSS and even the WSM are more then enough.



Dunno said:


> Whitebeard was likely still the strongest at MF, but that's because of his portrayal and feats there. Because of his illness, it's possible that he had weakened to the point where he wasn't the strongest any more, although it's very unlikely. Oda has never stated that Kaido is the strongest, he has stated that Kaido is known to be the strongest, which is a different thing entirely. It's possible that he's the strongest anyway, but it's far from confirmed.


Sorry he is the W strongest C ... similar that WSS ...

Feat wise Kaido is way above WSS and yet we are having the discussion.

And let's talk about that WSM puts you above all top tiers, WSS at best above 2, and yet WSS should be #2 :V.

Oda said that he is the world strongest creature, he is immortal, challenge, the Yonko and Navy, we saw him one-shotting a FM that defeated another FM an arc before, something that no ever did before ... and yet you doub that.

WSS has the title, never faced any top swordsman that we know, never defeated Fuji or Shanks, was blocked by many high tiers in MF and yet he has more legitimacy for his title .... talk about that.


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Check again ... forces ... seriously stop saying that I lack reading comprehension next time!
> 
> If Fuji means forces  ... we were talking about gravity in general then I said that he could wipe a country with accelerating a meteor-like in real life.
> 
> And you concluded that Fuji is planet buster


Nah man no amount of strawmanning is going to help you here, the implication was pretty clear, I am not going to waste my time any longer, enjoy the mental gymnastics that you do to in order to realize that head canon. C ya.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> the implication was pretty clear, I am not going to waste my time any longer,





QMS said:


> You guys legitly wank a sword to never seen hights and downplay *forces* that *can* *whip a planet *...
> 
> If *Fuji* accelerates the meteorite from a further distance he *can* *wipe a country easy*, something that WSS can't do with his sword.






Yes man I made Fuji a planet buster and the next statement I said he can wipe DressRosa ...

Where is Shishio with his continent of ice this is the same shit all over again.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> Nah man no amount of strawmanning is going to help you here, the implication was pretty clear,



Sure it is my man, crystal clear, similar to YC2 Pica 

Also, you already said for like let me count 10 times that you will not bother anymore ...

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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 8, 2019)

QMS said:


> Yes man I made Fuji a planet buster and the next statement I said he can wipe DressRosa ...
> 
> Where is Shishio with his continent of ice this is the same shit all over again.
> 
> ...


As I said strawmanning is not helping you, anyone with a functioning brain can see so.

See strawmanning again, and ad hominem as well, I have never said that, you took one statement from one user and you are applying that statement to everyone from the discord.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> As I said strawmanning is not helping you, anyone with a functioning brain can see s


Sorry mate you said that I made Fuji a planet buster and yet I said country level ... and I am a strawman ...

You think too highly of your skills, sorry to say this!

Do I need to prove that gravity can be planet level and can destroy a planet for you?

Or do I need to prove that the two sentences have two different subjects: one Fuji a  person and the first forces as in natural forces one being Gravity.

Can gravity destroy a planet, yes, black holes are a perfect example, can Fuji destroy a planet, no one said that and no he can not, no one in OP can ... see that was easy.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> See strawmanning again, and ad hominem as well, I have never said that,


really man ... come one you accused me of making Fuji a planet buster and one of my statements contradict this and yet you never said that you disagree with that and I am what ).



Light D Lamperouge said:


> you took one statement from one user and you are applying that statement to everyone from the discord.


We had this conversation :

Let me make it crystal clear:

IS Fuji planet level: NOPE;

IS Pica YC2 hell no he is an scrub;

Now straw man this.

IS WSS #2, hell fucking no, you have nothing in the manga to put him above Akainu and I don't like him, BM, Kaido, BB, Aokiji and Kizaru.

Kaido, for now, he can no be killed so one vs one he defeats anyone.
Akainu defeated 1 top tier so that puts him above WSS by actual feats
Aokiji is nigh equal to Akainu so at worst he is equal with WSS;

So here WSS #2 is debunked;

at EOS: EOS BB and Luffy + In Sama and Akainu  ... again not #2.


I am shitting on WSS when you are shitting on all of the top tiers by saying WSS is stronger than almost all because of a sword when the manga main theme is DF not swords  and your only point is a world strongest title that 4 more people have yet no one said that Dragon is #2 Zehaha.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> and ad hominem as well


See or your replies to me also!

I know that you hate WSS, you are a troll etc that has nothing to do with what I type ... and this is always an argument from your part ... again double standards .

The difference is that I don't care because well that is your opinion at best and yet you care when I do this to you and I wonder why that is :V.


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## Hades92 (Jul 8, 2019)

Law said:


> Akainu can't have a shot at being 3rd whilst his almost equal Kuzan is 8th/9th. They're so close they can't be separated by many people in between. Same probably applies to Shanks and Mihawk.
> 
> Old Garp can't be same as Old Rayleigh if he's Wb/Roger tier in your list. Do you think Rayleigh is that high up too? Garp was active when Ray was inactive for 2 decades, so if Ray was not up there with Wb/Roger in his prime, he should be beneath Garp in old age as well.


my list may have some inconsistencies but my point is _*"Mihawk ain't top 2 in any verse" 
*_
*Also, my list may have 1-12 but fights between them can go from low high diff-extreme diff *

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## Ren. (Jul 8, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> Mihawk is the WSS,* therefore he is at minimum stronger than Shanks by default.*
> 
> If Mihawk was disappointing against Vista, that automatically means Shanks would do worse.
> 
> ...


LOL ...

WSM is above all so by default WSM > Akainu and you don't like that :V.

So let me get this MIhawk worse feats make Shanks look worse and Shanks good feats as sparring with WB stopping Kaido  go to war and blocking Akain make WSS look stronger then this 

On one hand WSM is debunked because of what he has done in MF yet the lack of feats from WSS in MF don't , yet WB had to go against many top tiers and WSS against high tiers :V.

And some don't understand why I hate WSS as a concept when fans discuss this 


I am the troll in this thread.

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## Sengoku (Jul 9, 2019)

Exping said:


> Actually Ace just wanted to go back in and die. He was already saved by Luffy remember?



Half-assed saved maybe. Pretty sure Luffy didn't intent on Ace dying via execution.

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## Dellinger (Jul 9, 2019)

Top 2 Mihawk when he can't even wreck Vista or when he is treated like a nobody in MF


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## Gotenks92 (Jul 9, 2019)

QMS said:


> yet WB had to go against many top tiers and WSS against high tiers :V.


Top 2 don't sleep

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## Ren. (Jul 9, 2019)

Gotenks92 said:


> Top 2 don't sleep


Nope dog only VC that make WSS the strongest mather ... I know all of these but you know me the old throll!

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## Corax (Jul 9, 2019)

Flame said:


> He isn't called the "most skilled" swordsman. He's the strongest out of *all of them.*


If he is stronger than any man that has a sword he must be stronger than Prime WB and Roger. To be fair I don't think this is the case. He is strongest is swordplay,not overall.

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## Ren. (Jul 9, 2019)

Corax said:


> If he is stronger than any man that has a sword he must be stronger than Prime WB and Roger.


Again you are stepping on jihad territory ... I did these for 10 pages on OJ!

And those were good sword fans .


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## Dunno (Jul 9, 2019)

Corax said:


> If he is stronger than any man that has a sword he must be stronger than Prime WB and Roger. To be fair I don't think this is the case. He is strongest is swordplay,not overall.


This logic doesn't work. Roger wasn't around when Oda confirmed that Mihawk was the overall strongest person classified as a swordsman. Nobody has said that he was the WSS twenty years ago. That being said, he's not canonically stronger than anyone who owns a sword, only those who are actual swordsmen. The title clearly refers to strength though, and not skill with the sword.

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## Flame (Jul 9, 2019)

Corax said:


> If he is stronger than any man that has a sword he must be stronger than Prime WB and Roger. To be fair I don't think this is the case. He is strongest is swordplay,not overall.


He isn't stronger than any man with a sword. He's stronger than any man whose swordsmanship is his main fighting style. Big difference.

And his title refers to current era, not "of all time". Why would it mean he's stronger than Roger or prime WB?


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## Ren. (Jul 9, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The title clearly refers to strength though, and not skill with the sword.





Flame said:


> He's stronger than any man whose swordsmanship is his main fighting style


Oh boy ... this will be a war.


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## Steven (Jul 9, 2019)

QMS said:


> LOL ...
> 
> IF you guys like so much feats we can calculate the force a meteorite generates vs the force needed to cut that much ice.
> 
> ...


Holy shit Gremmy was a reality warper...


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 9, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> "Synonyms of heaven above, bliss, elysian fields, Elysium, empyrean, kingdom come, New Jerusalem, paradise, *sky*, Zion (also Sion)"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All of that is irrelevant given the *character himself differentiates* between the two words 

You are obviously trolling. This is basic comprehension.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 9, 2019)

QMS said:


> WSM is above all so by default WSM > Akainu and you don't like that :V.



The difference is that this has actually been disproven, and I can’t think of a better person to explain this concept to you than you yourself:



QMS said:


> *On one hand WSM is debunked because of what he has done in MF*



Whitebeard as WSM was pretty much debunked at every possible turn, his performance against the Admirals was disappointing in the best of cases, absolutely embarrassing in the worst of cases.

But the story of OP has never once disproven or contradicted Mihawk > Shanks, in fact it seems to double down on this concept at every turn, still introducing him as the strongest after the timeskip.

Mihawk > Shanks is not debunked just because Mihawk did worse against Vista than Shanks would in your imagination.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 9, 2019)

People still bringing up Vista need to reread the Manga this is what mihawk said when he was first introduced. 



Mihawk doesn't bother using his strength unless he needs to. He never fought Vista before so he wanted to have a fight with him that's all. If he wanted to cut him in half he would of, if you notice he makes no attempts to fight Vista again during the war which means he has no interest in actually fighting him to a finish.

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## Richard Lionheart (Jul 9, 2019)

Mihawk loses to Kaido, Whitebeard and even Meme by feats.

They are able to trash YC2-YC1 Commanders almost effortlessly. Even when those commanders are not distracted.

Kidd wanted to take down Shanks for a reason, since he is the weakest Yonko.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 9, 2019)

Legendary Pervert said:


> Mihawk loses to Kaido, Whitebeard and even Meme by feats.
> 
> They are able to trash YC2-YC1 Commanders almost effortlessly. Even when those commanders are not distracted.



This is wrong, Big Mom has never trashed any YC1, not even close to it lol. Her best feat is one shotting someone that a YC1 would later completely obliterate and then later getting overwhelmed by Jinbe who is at best an equal to Mihawk, but most likely Mihawk’s inferior.

Against Queen, she couldn’t even knock him unconscious and even worse, he dealt with her in one attack just like King did.

She then landed a punch on base Luffy and it basically tickled him. Lmfao

A far cry from Mihawk sparring with Vista casually.

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## Sengoku (Jul 9, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> All of that is irrelevant given the *character himself differentiates* between the two words
> 
> You are obviously trolling. This is basic comprehension.



Its literally just clouds from the panel shown, goofball.

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## Seraphoenix (Jul 9, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Its literally just clouds from the panel shown, goofball.


The character who was there says it wasn't just clouds. He says it was something more.

Reading is hard when it has to do with Yonkou feats huh? You get blackout or what?  Can't even read dialogue.


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 9, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Its literally just clouds from the panel shown, goofball.



Like is he serious or? 

I can’t tell when Yonko fans are trolling anymore. Lol

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sengoku (Jul 9, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The character who was there says it wasn't just clouds. He says it was something more.
> 
> Reading is hard when it has to do with Yonkou feats huh? You get blackout or what?  Can't even read dialogue.



Words are just words. I'll take visual evidence over exaggerated words any day.
Nah, I didn't get a blackout. But apparently you are missing an extra "p" in your name.

Must suck having selective reading and being legally blind at the same time, right?



Major Lee Hung said:


> Like is he serious or?
> 
> I can’t tell when Yonko fans are trolling anymore. Lol



Nah, sadly, he is not trolling. He legitimately sees pearly gates and God smiling down in that panel.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Jul 9, 2019)

Legendary Pervert said:


> Mihawk loses to Kaido, Whitebeard and even Meme by feats.
> 
> They are able to trash YC2-YC1 Commanders almost effortlessly. Even when those commanders are not distracted.
> 
> Kidd wanted to take down Shanks for a reason, since he is the weakest Yonko.


Come on now. Judging by feats, Big Mom isn't able to trash YCs, she's not even able to avoid getting trashed by them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Richard Lionheart (Jul 9, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> This is wrong, Big Mom has never trashed any YC1,



I never said that. I said characters ranging from YC2 level to YC1 level in general. Which is correct.

Meme tossed around Queen like a sack of BS. Kaido did the same to Luffy. If Mihawk is anywhere near their power he should have done the same to Vista, which he didnt do. So by feats he is inferior to them.


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## Law (Jul 9, 2019)

Hades92 said:


> my list may have some inconsistencies but my point is _*"Mihawk ain't top 2 in any verse"
> *_
> *Also, my list may have 1-12 but fights between them can go from low high diff-extreme diff *


Yeah the gaps are all very close which is why it wouldn't be absurd if Mihawk was #2. Point is Akainu and Kuzan gap is so crazy miniscule that none should be inbetween them. More like one could be equal to Akainu and stronger than Kuzan. That's more factual than "Mihawk ain't top 2 in any verse."

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## Dunno (Jul 9, 2019)

Legendary Pervert said:


> I never said that. I said characters ranging from YC2 level to YC1 level in general. Which is correct.
> 
> Meme tossed around Queen like a sack of BS. Kaido did the same to Luffy. If Mihawk is anywhere near their power he should have done the same to Vista, which he didnt do. So by feats he is inferior to them.


This is just wrong. Big Mom has one feat of doing well against Queen (which was followed by her getting knocked out by him the following chapter) and a lot of feats of failing to knock characters out. Not only has she shown time and time again that she's incredibly bad at knocking characters out, but she also gets knocked out by YC level characters. If Big Mom was an average top tier, she should be able to injure Chopper level characters and shouldn't be getting knocked out by YCs.

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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 9, 2019)

Legendary Pervert said:


> I never said that. I said characters ranging from YC2 level to YC1 level in general. Which is correct.
> 
> Meme tossed around Queen like a sack of BS. Kaido did the same to Luffy. If Mihawk is anywhere near their power he should have done the same to Vista, which he didnt do. So by feats he is inferior to them.



EVen so, tossing around Queen is not a feat for the same reason that Marco kicking Kizaru to the ground is not a feat. Or Pageone overpowering Raidsuit Sanji is not a feat. Or Luffy beating Kaido out of the sky with Gear 3 is not a feat. 

You need to demonstrate that Big Mom can actually injure a YC1-2 when so far she’s never even shown the ability to scratch one. 

Now Mihawk in the other hand, we know he’s clearly above Vista by virtue of his title alone so that automatically tells us that he was holding back against Vista lol. 

If Mihawk wanted to, he would overpower Vista convincingly, and again we know this by virtue of his title. Whereas with Meme, no one has ever stated nor has she proven that she is above YC2 in power. By feats, she is easily inferior to both Katakuri and King.

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## Gledania (Jul 9, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> You need to demonstrate that Big Mom can actually injure a YC1-2 when so far she’s never even shown the ability to scratch one.




She KO'ed him for multiple minutes....


He was on the ground. Playing dead cause he knew he don't stand a chance.


Bruh just accept the yonko superiority already.

The truth will set you free


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## Major Lee Hung (Jul 9, 2019)

Gledania said:


> She KO'ed him for multiple minutes....
> 
> 
> He was on the ground. Playing dead cause he knew he don't stand a chance.



Wait what? So was he KO’d or was he playing dead?

I mean ofc he was playing dead and not actually KO’d, just wondering why you contradicted yourself lol.

He was playing dead because he was scared of Mama, sure, but Kizaru was scared of Hawkins. Power level =/= fear Level

Queen is clearly quite close to Big Mom in power if he didn’t even need his hybrid form to make her eyes go white


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## Gledania (Jul 9, 2019)

Major Lee Hung said:


> He was playing dead because he was scared of Mama, sure, but Kizaru was scared of Hawkins. Power level =/= fear Level




Not the sane. He was scared of his face. He wont play dead to avoid hawkins.
He would murder hawkins and that's what he did.


Major Lee Hung said:


> Queen is clearly quite close to Big Mom in power if he didn’t even need his hybrid form to make her eyes go white



She didn't pass out nor complained from pain. 

Meanwhile guess who Jozu made bleed.Kappa


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## Flame (Jul 9, 2019)

Gledania said:


> She didn't complained from pain.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Steven (Jul 9, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> He is not even that. He just exists. He is irrelevant


Mihawk downplay=Yonkou downplay

I hope you know that


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## Law (Jul 9, 2019)

Dellinger constantly wanks to the SBS that mentions Kaido, but the one that mentions Mihawk? God forbid. Imagine if Oda mentioned someone other than Mihawk. I bet he'd use that as argument to say Shanks > Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Gledania (Jul 9, 2019)

Flame said:


>




You will regret this Flame kun.

I'm inevitable. I will come to you the moment you will expect the less


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## Dellinger (Jul 9, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Mihawk downplay=Yonkou downplay
> 
> I hope you know that


There is no downplay. Mihawk is only related to a guy that he refuses to fight and a guy that garners much more respect and has a far superior portrayal than him


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## Steven (Jul 9, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> There is no downplay. Mihawk is only related to a guy that he refuses to fight and a guy that garners much more respect and has a far superior portrayal than him


Mihawk is waiting for someone stronger than Shanks

he has lost interest in shanks because he has become a cripple

The WSS titel alone puts him above Shanks.How you can ignore that?

Reactions: Like 4


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## Law (Jul 9, 2019)

Kaido's rumour title has more weight than WSM/WSS and no one can share the title with him(be exception) like Wb/Roger & Shanks/Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sabco (Jul 9, 2019)

Kaido >= Papazuki = Dragon > *Mihawk* > Current Blackbeard > The Admirals >= Red Snitch = Big Meme

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dellinger (Jul 9, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Mihawk is waiting for someone stronger than Shanks
> 
> he has lost interest in shanks because he has become a cripple
> 
> The WSS titel alone puts him above Shanks.How you can ignore that?


He doesn’t fight him so no


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## Steven (Jul 9, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> He doesn’t fight him so no


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 9, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> He doesn’t fight him so no



Why would Mihawk fight a cripple

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sengoku (Jul 9, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Why would Mihawk fight a cripple



More like why would Mihawk fight someone who is weaker than him?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Law (Jul 9, 2019)

Read something that may be interesting in the blue deep databook. Buggy is listed as ex-comrade under Shanks' part and Mihawk is listed as his rival, instead of ex rival.


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## Law (Jul 9, 2019)

Someone should remind Dellinger that... 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Mihawk went to Wano 17 years ago and defeated every samurai. Then after resting & enjoying Wano, Kaido fought him in order to recruit him, but he suffered one of his 7 L's and thus Mihawk refused to join someone who is weaker than him.


*Spoiler*: __ 



But like Shanks, this was before Kaido realized he could become much stronger by obtaining a hidden power and eventually become the WSC & decently stronger than Mihawk. So it doesn't really mean anything.


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## Seraphoenix (Jul 10, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Words are just words. I'll take visual evidence over exaggerated words any day.
> Nah, I didn't get a blackout. But apparently you are missing an extra "p" in your name.
> 
> Must suck having selective reading and being legally blind at the same time, right?



Your argument is ''words are words''?  How old are you?  just take your ball home if you can't debate meaning.

Yeah, you won't take the word of a credible character because it goes against your own preconceived notions of what was happening. We're done here. So much projection from you.


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## Soca (Jul 10, 2019)

This thread will be closed if the toxicity keeps up. 

Cool it down.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 10, 2019)

26 Pages this is the power of Mihawk 

Anyway as usual things are just going around in circles. Mihawk>Shanks let just leave it at that and move on with our lives.


The whitebeard and shanks clash was symbolic that's why it's important the actual power behind the feat is actually nothing crazy especially not by top tier standards which I believe one piece top tier are sitting at like country/continent lvl+ in destructive power scaling off of prime chinjaos feats and whitebeard. Two dudes that can destroy Texas with ease clashing and making the clouds right above them part is nothing special


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## Asaya7 (Jul 10, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> So unless you think One Piece characters can actually tear open through space/time/reality then pass the weed to everyone because all of us one want to take a hit.


i sure do


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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Anyway as usual things are just going around in circles.
> 
> Mihawk>Shanks
> 
> let just leave it at that and move on with our lives.


i think that’s the problem. Feats, portrayal and hype say otherwise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Asaya7 (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> i think that’s the problem. Feats, portrayal and hype say otherwise.


How?

Shanks is pretty featless.
Mihawk is hyped as the WSS, which obviously includes shanks.
If you want to look at portrayal, look at how mihawk told shanks he isnt interested in fighting him as he is a one-armed has-been.

And this is already not considering the databook which puts the final nail in the coffin of this case.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> i think that’s the problem. Feats, portrayal and hype say otherwise.



Feats

What feats Blocking Akainu punch aimed at coby? Jinbei did that.

Blocking a non-quake infused swing from WB?

Sure I guess you could rate that higher then Mihawks iceberg feat but feats are pretty irrelevant. Feats only matter when both characters have gone all out or at least close to all out like akainu has. Saying akainu has better feats then dragon is pretty irrelevant the man hasn't done shit like wise saying shanks has better feats then mihawk(which is arguable) is also pretty irrelevant.

Portrayal?

Mihawk goes over to shanks island all his men just let him walk on through, shanks asks if he wants to fight and mihawk calls him a cripple and a waste of time.

Hype

WSS overrules any hype another swordsmen has and as much as shanks fans don't like it he's a swordsmen and falls under mihawks title until proven otherwise.


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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> How?
> 
> Shanks is pretty featless.
> Mihawk is hyped as the WSS, which obviously includes shanks.
> ...


Good good, got my first bite. 
Facing WB, Blocking Akainu and ending a war with 5 active top tiers is feats that surpass the WSS.

Hype as the freest man (luffys goal), these titles are starting to mean less and less as time goes on. Shanks isn’t just a swordsman either. He can throw Haki blasts now. 

Portrayal is being one of the 4 strongest active pirates on the seas. 
Mihawk thinks it fair fighting a man with one eye but not one arm...  interesting 

Data book basically says Shanks is the PK and Mihawk the WSS. 

At best Mihawk is equal to Shanks.


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## Law (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> i think that’s the problem. Feats, portrayal and hype say otherwise.


That's fine opinion to hold but the problem is to think Shanks is quite a bit stronger or Mihawk can't be stronger.

The portrayal from these two panels seem very similar to me. 





I remember people saying Mihawk doesn't wanna fight Shanks because he doesn't wanna lose his title or Shanks isn't interested in it. 

Well look at Big Mom. It is as if she doesn't recognize Kaido's rumoured title and gives him a heads up and says she'll come to his place and "to try & kill me."

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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Feats
> 
> What feats Blocking Akainu punch aimed at coby? Jinbei did that.
> 
> ...


Jinbe had a hole in his chest. 

Its about the portrayal of equally splitting the sky with the WSM. 

What can I say Mihawk likes wasting his time... not like he has much to do  he went to EB because of DK. 

Hype outs one closest to PK and the other as above swordsman. 

All I’m saying is as a Mihawk fan, you guys should be fighting for ‘=‘ sign and not ‘>’.


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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Law said:


> That's fine opinion to hold but the problem is to think Shanks is quite a bit stronger or Mihawk can't be stronger.
> 
> The portrayal from these two panels seem very similar to me.
> 
> ...


I think it’s a bigger possibility that they’re equal instead of one being stronger than the other and if one is stronger than Shanks is the man just because of Kings Haki.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Jinbe had a hole in his chest.
> 
> Its about the portrayal of equally splitting the sky with the WSM.
> 
> ...



What is this portrayal showing exactly? That one yonkou can fight on even grounds with another yonkou? Sure I don't see why not. Akainu blocked whitebeards bisento swing with his foot. Shanks feat isn't special. Any top tier can replicate it. 

Becoming PK is not solely based on strength which is why Kaidou is WSC and Shanks isnt the WSM despite being the closest to one piece. It also doesn't override the fact that mihawks title puts him above shanks. 

Also the Haki argument is getting old, Haki is a supplement not a fighting style. Shanks could be Haki Jesus it doesn't change him from a swordsmen.

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## Sengoku (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Good good, got my first bite.
> Facing WB, Blocking Akainu and ending a war with 5 active top tiers is feats that surpass the WSS.



Ending the war when they clearly weren't fresh is, again, not "impressive" by any stretch of the imagination. You can replace Shanks with any other top tier crew that has benevolence and Sengoku would have ended the war the same way.



> Hype as the freest man (luffys goal), these titles are starting to mean less and less as time goes on. Shanks isn’t just a swordsman either. He can throw Haki blasts now.



Wait. Mihawk doesn't have haki?

These haki blasts are a joke at the moment. They only work on fodders. I have never seen Shanks haki blast a top tier and made him/her lose consciousness.



> Portrayal is being one of the 4 strongest active pirates on the seas.



Must be nice to have such a strong top tier crew.



> Mihawk thinks it fair fighting a man with one eye but not one arm...  interesting



Yeah, he would know because they have fought many times before and he would know more than you or any reader on here.
I trust his words over yours anyday. If Mihawk thinks Shanks is weaker (which he is. Also confirmed by Oda himself) then that's that.

It seems like you lose sleep if a non-emperor character poses any kind of significant or insignificant threat to your group. How dare the strongest marine/wss swordsman/revolutionary commander be stronger than ONE of the 4 emperors!!!!



> Data book basically says Shanks is the PK and Mihawk the WSS.



Scan?

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## Asaya7 (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Portrayal is being one of the 4 strongest active pirates on the seas.


Are you serious? like, actually serious?



Sengoku said:


> Scan?


well it says shanks is the freest man currently, and by luffy definition, thats the PK.

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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> What is this portrayal showing exactly? That one yonkou can fight on even grounds with another yonkou? Sure I don't see why not. Akainu blocked whitebeards bisento swing with his foot. Shanks feat isn't special. Any top tier can replicate it.
> 
> Becoming PK is not solely based on strength which is why Kaidou is WSC and Shanks isnt the WSM despite being the closest to one piece. It also doesn't override the fact that mihawks title puts him above shanks.
> 
> Also the Haki argument is getting old, Haki is a supplement not a fighting style. Shanks could be Haki Jesus it doesn't change him from a swordsmen.


injured WB/ Healthy WB but sky splitting was the portrayal of rivalry not just equaling out a swing from WB. 

It definitely has to do with Strength just as much as it does about finding Raftel, DCj and Mihawk have made that very clear. That’s the mindset Luffy came with over the TS because you can’t be buggy and Be PK maybe Schichibukai or Yonko not PK. 

The previous PK was equal to WSM, so these titles Are nothing but hype tools, you can’t be the strongest and still have an equal and as far I’m concerned other than hinting at their duels but nothing of any outcome of their fights was ever mentioned nor hinted at.

 Kaidous title holds even less hype than either WBs or Mihawks if I’m honest. His rival as far as we know is BM, currently labelled the weakest Top tier by most people. So how does the strongest character rival the weakest top tier?  Just further goes to show that these titles should be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to the top tier fights. 

Yeah that was before you make shields and do internal damage with it. CoC is being saved so I wonder what that can do. 




Sengoku said:


> Ending the war when they clearly weren't fresh is, again, not "impressive" by any stretch of the imagination. You can replace Shanks with any other top tier crew that has benevolence and Sengoku would have ended the war the same way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


loooool you know what that is called? It’s called Fanfic, if another Yonko not named Shanks had come, they wouldn’t leave nor talk about stopping any war. Stop the nonsense. Stopping Akainu... the mad dog, the one that WANTED to kill the WBs along with Luffy no matter what was stopped and didn’t bother to carry on the battle. You would have an easier time reasoning why Shanks was allowed to stop the war than saying any top tier could have done the same. He also stopped Kaidou, who again as far as we know doesn’t sit down to have chats with the enemy instead jumps to battle to achieve his dream of dying. That’s not to say Shanks is stronger than Akainu and marines/ Kaidou and his crew no what I’m saying is that ONLY shanks could have done what he done because of the level respect the Opverse have got him and the portrayal Oda has set for him. 

He does but not on the same level as Shanks, not even Ray had the same Haki hype from data books iirc. Not that the data book matters, he was able to use Advanced BH and protect Coby from The overspilling magma fist and CoC hype to do physical damage. As far as we know now, Shanks seems like the current Haki god, which makes sense given he has to keep up with monsters like Kaidou/ BM/ Admirals/ etc.

You’ve never seen Shanks use haki blasts but you also haven’t seen nor heard Mihawk beating Shanks but here you are.


Very bold claim, the captain of each crew could solo their whole crew, see DD, BM, WB and Kaidou. So much for a strong crew right? 

Of course he would know, so tell more about this fanfic you wrote, did Mihawk first give 1 armed Shanks a beating than thought yeah, this isn’t fair or was it just overwhelming defeat for Shanks and Mihawk being a good friend didn’t wanna tell anyone and just left it at not fighting him anymore, and lease provide these dialogue so I can see for myself. Unless it’s all in your head? 

Mihawk must be stronger than all the other Yonko as well because they don’t think it’s worth the risk of fighting Shanks because he is missing an arm nor has any of their dialogue ever hinted that they could easily take Shanks since he is so much weaker now and it’s confirmed by Oda  

Their VCs that were recently released. 
Shanks the freestman in the sea (directly compared to PK title) and Mihawk the WSS.


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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> Are you serious? like, actually serious?


Well... I’m not kidding, so...


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## Sengoku (Jul 10, 2019)

Um actually it was an agreement on both sides to stop the war. Not just Shanks only.

Even Sengoku was willing to take the fault/blame for this.

Secondly, Sakazuki is a man who obeys orders. It would be disingenuous to his character if Sakazuki disobeys and then has to worry about both the Marines and Shanks crew. Sengoku oversaw and is the director / operator of this entire theatre. He gives out orders and you listen.

If anything, Shanks is pretty damn lucky to have stepped in when Sengoku was fleet admiral, because had this war happened today, Sakazuki would have punched Shanks's goofy head clean off.

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## Beast (Jul 10, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Um actually it was an agreement on both sides to stop the war. Not just Shanks only.
> 
> Even Sengoku was willing to take the fault/blame for this.
> 
> ...


Could be his strength, could be his connections with the WG or whatever but nonetheless Shanks CAME to stop the war and it stopped, he was ready to fight anyone if they wanted to carry on. 

Good for him, but again he wouldn’t take the blame had Kaidou the mad man turned up because he wouldn’t be there to make peace or end any war.

So, did Akainu get stopped first or did he receive the order to stop fighting before Shanks stopped him? 
No one stopped fighting till Shanks and his crew punked everyone and THAN Sengoku AGREED to let him take WB/ Ace bodies as a sign of respect.

Bold claim, but holds some truth...


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## Sengoku (Jul 10, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Could be his strength, could be his connections with the WG or whatever but nonetheless Shanks CAME to stop the war and it stopped, he was ready to fight anyone if they wanted to carry on.



It was never stated as to why Sengoku agreed to stop the war. As you said, it could be his strength, could be his connections. But often at times, Shanks supporters would unanimously agree that it is his strength alone, which is just factually incorrect. We don't know.
Just like how Shanks supporters unanimously agree that Shanks alone beat Kaidou in a fight except we don't know the stipulations of it.



> Good for him, but again he wouldn’t take the blame had Kaidou the mad man turned up because he wouldn’t be there to make peace or end any war.



Of course he wouldn't. Kaido got pissed that Whitebeard died and he wanted to started a new war that is even greater than the Paramount War. So of course his intentions were made absolutely clear. He isn't going to have a dialogue with the fleet admiral and lollygagging his way to bury WB and Ace. Because he could care less about their burials.



> So, did Akainu get stopped first or did he receive the order to stop fighting before Shanks stopped him?



All it was a parry from his sword. Just like how WB and Shanks parried each other with their weapons. I hardly call that an actual "full bout" fight given the circumstances that Sakazuki's punch was strictly aimed at Coby.

Shanks and his crew priority was to negotiate with dialogue first. Which is why they stood there and listened to what he said. If Shanks wanted to fuck things up then the Marines will have no choice but to fight, right? Which, in itself, doesn't show a sign of weakness of the Marines. The Marines' main objective was to execute Ace and they were expecting WB and his crew to come. Main objective completed. War won.



> No one stopped fighting till Shanks and his crew punked everyone and THAN Sengoku AGREED to let him take WB/ Ace bodies as a sign of respect.



Unless you can prove that Shanks's army is so much superior then I would have to say "yeah, how about no". Had Shanks came in to save Ace before he was executed, you can be sure they would murder Ace in front of his eyes.

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## Nox (Jul 16, 2019)

Can you post the panel where it mentions Shank's is the most free. I see this statement being thrown about and even as a Shanks fan I am trying to remember when this was said.

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## Asaya7 (Jul 16, 2019)

Astro said:


> Can you post the panel where it mentions Shank's is the most free. I see this statement being thrown about and even as a Shanks fan I am trying to remember when this was said.


it was either in a magazine or the VC

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## TheWiggian (Jul 16, 2019)

Astro said:


> Can you post the panel where it mentions Shank's is the most free. I see this statement being thrown about and even as a Shanks fan I am trying to remember when this was said.



It actually said that if Shanks would've been the WSS he would be the man with the most freedom out there. Sadly for teh Shanks fans it's Mihawk.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 16, 2019)

Astro said:


> Can you post the panel where it mentions Shank's is the most free. I see this statement being thrown about and even as a Shanks fan I am trying to remember when this was said.



It was stated in the VC

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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 16, 2019)

Astro said:


> Can you post the panel where it mentions Shank's is the most free. I see this statement being thrown about and even as a Shanks fan I am trying to remember when this was said.


The translation is done by Den Den Mushi, it is from a vc, or a databook which included special vcs I guess. First paragraph, last sentence.

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## Turrin (Jul 16, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Um actually it was an agreement on both sides to stop the war. Not just Shanks only.
> 
> Even Sengoku was willing to take the fault/blame for this.
> 
> ...


Dude Akainu cucked down to shanks before Sengoku called off the war; as he immediately stops attacking Shanks once his arm gets blown away by Shanks blocking his attack


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## Sengoku (Jul 17, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Akainu cucked down to shanks before Sengoku called off the war; as he immediately stops attacking Shanks once his arm gets blown away by Shanks blocking his attack



Going by that logic, Akainu was cucked by Coby's pleas because he gave Coby some time to say what he had to say.

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## Flame (Jul 17, 2019)

Do people really think Akainu is so dumb to attack a Yonko and start yet another war?

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## Turrin (Jul 17, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Going by that logic, Akainu was cucked by Coby's pleas because he gave Coby some time to say what he had to say.


Coby is a marine; that’s why he gave him time


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## Beast (Jul 17, 2019)

Flame said:


> Do people really think Akainu is so dumb to attack a Yonko and start yet another war?


He looks like would... unless it’s Shanks.


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## Sengoku (Jul 17, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Coby is a marine; that’s why he gave him time



Also gave Ace time as well.


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## Theoryking (Jul 18, 2019)

Is he top 2? No. With Dragon and Blackbeard being upfront, and with Sakazuki and kaido possibly being  stronger. But he's 100% top5 with argument for top 3.


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## ice demon slayer (Jul 18, 2019)

He's Im sama after all


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## AmitDS (Jul 18, 2019)

Well if we're using WSS as proof that Mihawk > Shanks since Shanks is a swordsman and he would thus be included in that let's also take into account that Shanks is hyped pre time skip as one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world and Mihawk was a pirate at that time and not included there. See how that works? Mihawk and Shanks are rivals so idk where this Mihawk > Shanks comes from. Also Shanks is Luffy's idol, a yonkou who has standing with the gorosei and overall more important plot wise than Mihawk who is Zoro's goal so how can Mihawk be stronger and how can that make any sense plot wise?


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## barreltheif (Jul 18, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Well if we're using WSS as proof that Mihawk > Shanks since Shanks is a swordsman and he would thus be included in that let's also take into account that Shanks is hyped pre time skip as one of the 4 strongest pirates in the world and Mihawk was a pirate at that time and not included there. See how that works? Mihawk and Shanks are rivals so idk where this Mihawk > Shanks comes from. Also Shanks is Luffy's idol, a yonkou who has standing with the gorosei and overall more important plot wise than Mihawk who is Zoro's goal so how can Mihawk be stronger and how can that make any sense plot wise?



The emperors were never stated to be the four strongest pirates. They were stated to be the four (now five) most powerful pirates, ruling over the new world. Being an emperor does not make Shanks stronger than Mihawk. Do you think Luffy is stronger than Mihawk?

Mihawk is Zoro's ultimate goal. Shanks is not Luffy's ultimate goal; he's only one of the four stepping stones to becoming pirate king.


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## AmitDS (Jul 19, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> The emperors were never stated to be the four strongest pirates. They were stated to be the four (now five) most powerful pirates, ruling over the new world. Being an emperor does not make Shanks stronger than Mihawk. Do you think Luffy is stronger than Mihawk?
> 
> Mihawk is Zoro's ultimate goal. Shanks is not Luffy's ultimate goal; he's only one of the four stepping stones to becoming pirate king.



Well the issue with your little explanation is the fact that Luffy was named an emperor based on Morgans' biased reporting and clearly is inferior to the other emperors. And is this a wrong translation? 

*Link Removed* 

*And I actually think Shanks = Mihawk* since they're rivals and nothing indicates that one is superior to the other outside of people twisting WSS to mean any person who uses a sword (though people like Vista are stated to rival him which is w/e imo).

*My point is that I can twist Shanks' hype/plot significance as well to say that he's stronger than Mihawk in the same way others do it for Mihawk and other characters. *


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## barreltheif (Jul 19, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Well the issue with your little explanation is the fact that Luffy was named an emperor based on Morgans' biased reporting and clearly is inferior to the other emperors. And is this a wrong translation?



How is that an "issue"? I certainly agree with all that.
The translation is correct as far as I know. Nothing about the emperors being the four strongest pirates.



> *And I actually think Shanks = Mihawk* since they're rivals and nothing indicates that one is superior to the other outside of people twisting WSS to mean any person who uses a sword (though people like Vista are stated to rival him which is w/e imo).
> *My point is that I can twist Shanks' hype/plot significance as well to say that he's stronger than Mihawk in the same way others do it for Mihawk and other characters. *



Your "point" is wrong. Being an emperor does not guarantee that he's stronger than all nonemperors. Being the strongest swordsman does mean that Mihawk is stronger than all other swordsmen (stronger, at least, in swordsmanship).


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## AmitDS (Jul 19, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> How is that an "issue"? I certainly agree with all that.
> The translation is correct as far as I know. Nothing about the emperors being the four strongest pirates.
> 
> 
> ...



Again I never said that Mihawk can't be as powerful as an emperor (Shanks for example). I was simply pointing out that twisting hype can be done for the yonkou (Shanks) as well and that this official translation states that those are the 4 strongest pirates. 

I also agree that he's the strongest swordsman in the sense of swordsmanship/sword related techniques while people like Shanks/BM may use swords but are not strictly users of swords only (swordsmen).

People love twisting hype in favor of their favs on this site. The same way someone twists WSS, someone else can easily twist Shanks being stated to be on WB's level as 'proof' that he's superior to Mihawk. Neither are necessarily true i.e. that Shanks > Mihawk/Mihawk > Shanks. 

 The comma  before _'who live in the 2nd half of the grand line' _shows that it's a separate point. So going by that translation the meaning is: *they are the 4 strongest pirates and they live in the 2nd half of the grand line *NOT* they are the 4 strongest pirates of the 2nd half of the grand line *(there are pirates in other parts of the world who are stronger; the title is only limited to new world pirates).


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 19, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Again I never said that Mihawk can't be as powerful as an emperor (Shanks for example). I was simply pointing out that twisting hype can be done for the yonkou (Shanks) as well and that this official translation states that those are the 4 strongest pirates.
> 
> I also agree that he's the strongest swordsman in the sense of swordsmanship/sword related techniques while people like Shanks/BM may use swords but are not strictly users of swords only (swordsmen).
> 
> ...



Garp says Greatest or most Powerful depending on the translation you go with. Neither of which means Strongest. 

Shanks unlike Big Mom does not have a devil fruit nor do we have any evidence that he is anything but a swordsmen.


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## AmitDS (Jul 19, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Garp says Greatest or most Powerful depending on the translation you go with. Neither of which means Strongest.
> 
> Shanks unlike Big Mom does not have a devil fruit nor do we have any evidence that he is anything but a swordsmen.



Ignoring context, most powerful pirate would actually mean strongest/greatest pirate since *great, strong and powerful are synonyms. *

Also there is no evidence that Mihawk > Shanks since Shanks is stated to be on WB's level and one of the four most powerful pirates while we know Mihawk isn't stronger than WB either.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 19, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Ignoring context, most powerful pirate would actually mean strongest/greatest pirate since *great, strong and powerful are synonyms. *
> 
> Also there is no evidence that Mihawk > Shanks since Shanks is stated to be on WB's level and one of the four most powerful pirates while we know Mihawk isn't stronger than WB either.



In the context of being a pirate lord they are not synonyms. If I say Mr. jack is one of the 4 greatest mob bosses alive. That doesn't mean Mr. jack can 1v1 every other gangster on the planet besides the other 3. It means his overall influences and authority is superior to everyone else besides the other 3.


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## AmitDS (Jul 20, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> In the context of being a pirate lord they are not synonyms. If I say Mr. jack is one of the 4 greatest mob bosses alive. That doesn't mean Mr. jack can 1v1 every other gangster on the planet besides the other 3. It means his overall influences and authority is superior to everyone else besides the other 3.



*Didn't you yourself say that other translations say most powerful? And isn't powerful an English word that is a synonym for strong?* Therefore it's clear what was being discussed. Or do you think translators using the words most powerful are correct but translators using the word strongest are wrong? Also great can also mean strong/exceptional/powerful/noteworthy etc. in English and as I said before, since you yourself pointed out that some use most powerful/strongest it shows what 'greatest' means here.

And thirdly, since the same conversation says that Shanks is a pirate on the level of Whitebeard it's also clear what is being spoken about here i.e. the 4 most powerful/strongest/greatest/most exceptional pirates in the world dominating the most deadly sea in the world- the new world.

They are talking about the yonko for crying out loud. They are talking about strength.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jul 20, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> *Didn't you yourself say that other translations say most powerful? And isn't powerful an English word that is a synonym for strong?* Therefore it's clear what was being discussed. Or do you think translators using the words most powerful are correct but translators using the word strongest are wrong? Also great can also mean strong/exceptional/powerful/noteworthy etc. in English and as I said before, since you yourself pointed out that some use most powerful/strongest it shows what 'greatest' means here.
> 
> And thirdly, since the same conversation says that Shanks is a pirate on the level of Whitebeard it's also clear what is being spoken about here i.e. the 4 most powerful/strongest/greatest/most exceptional pirates in the world dominating the most deadly sea in the world- the new world.
> 
> They are talking about the yonko for crying out loud. They are talking about strength.



Powerful and greatest can mean strong it depends on the context though. 

In the context of a pirate lord that rules like a emperor it does not mean strongest. Strongest is a mistranslation it's either powerful or greatest being the most accurate translations.


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## Theoryking (Jul 20, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Again I never said that Mihawk can't be as powerful as an emperor (Shanks for example). I was simply pointing out that twisting hype can be done for the yonkou (Shanks) as well and that this official translation states that those are the 4 strongest pirates.
> 
> I also agree that he's the strongest swordsman in the sense of swordsmanship/sword related techniques while people like Shanks/BM may use swords but are not strictly users of swords only (swordsmen).
> 
> ...



Yonko -title based on influence (refer to pekoms), territories (refer to garp), huge armies/allies (refer to Luffy attaining the emperor title)

World's strongest swordsman - title based on combat prowess strictly.  IE, beating all the strong swordsmen alive, waiting on somebody stronger than Shanks to come by.. 


The fact Mihawk is waiting on somebody stronger than Shanks to come so he can fight them is literally the only thing we need to know which one of the two is now stronger.. 

Mihawk  = Shanks was probably the case when Shanks had 2 arms.. 
Mihawk = Shanks is not the case after he lost his arm.


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## Dellinger (Jul 20, 2019)

Theoryking said:


> Yonko -title based on influence (refer to pekoms), territories (refer to garp), huge armies/allies (refer to Luffy attaining the emperor title)
> 
> World's strongest swordsman - title based on combat prowess strictly.  IE, beating all the strong swordsmen alive, waiting on somebody stronger than Shanks to come by..
> 
> ...



I thought people would stop with this excuse about the Yonko being all about territory after all the things we've seen. Yonko are Yonko because of their strength. If it was based o what you said, Marco would instantly turn into a Yonko too. It's the Yonko that makes the territories and huge armies because of their immense strength. a Yonko crew without their captain immediately crumbles.


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## barreltheif (Jul 20, 2019)

AmitDS said:


> Again I never said that Mihawk can't be as powerful as an emperor (Shanks for example). I was simply pointing out that twisting hype can be done for the yonkou (Shanks) as well and that this official translation states that those are the 4 strongest pirates.
> 
> I also agree that he's the strongest swordsman in the sense of swordsmanship/sword related techniques while people like Shanks/BM may use swords but are not strictly users of swords only (swordsmen).
> 
> ...



Saying that, as the strongest swordsman, Mihawk is stronger than other swordsmen in swordsmanship, is not in any way twisting Mihawk's hype. This isn't even really open to interpretation.

Taking the statement that the emperors are "the greatest/most powerful pirates, ruling over the second half of the grand line", and pretending like it's stating that they're stronger than everyone in a 1 on 1 fight - that is twisting their hype.

The fact that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman puts him above both Big Mom and Shanks in a swordfight. Big Mom has shown other fighting styles besides swordsmanship, meaning that Mihawk is not automatically stronger than her. Shanks, by contrast, has not shown anything other swordsmanship (supported by great physical stats and haki, just like Mihawk and Zoro).


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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

barreltheif said:


> Saying that, as the strongest swordsman, Mihawk is stronger than other swordsmen in swordsmanship, is not in any way twisting Mihawk's hype. There's no even any room for interpretation.
> 
> *Taking the statement that the emperors are the most powerful pirates, ruling over the new world*, and pretending like it's stating that they're stronger than everyone in a 1 on 1 fight - that is twisting their hype.
> 
> The fact that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman puts him above both Big Mom and Shanks in a swordfight. Big Mom has shown other fighting styles besides swordsmanship, meaning that Mihawk is not automatically stronger than her. Shanks, by contrast, has not shown anything other swordsmanship (supported by great physical stats and haki, just like Mihawk and Zoro).


Yonkous have a big crew while Mihawk is alone.

WSS>Shanks(Yonkou)=Mihawk is one of the strongest Pirates as well


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## Theoryking (Jul 20, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> I thought people would stop with this excuse about the Yonko being all about territory after all the things we've seen. Yonko are Yonko because of their strength. If it was based o what you said, Marco would instantly turn into a Yonko too. It's the Yonko that makes the territories and huge armies because of their immense strength. a Yonko crew without their captain immediately crumbles.


Excuse? I don't think you understand what a "Yonko" is.

Garp: 4 most powerful pirates that rule like emperors. How does one rule like an emperor? Having a lot of territories, armies, allies resulting in giant influence.. if they didn't rule like emperors they wouldn't be the 4 emperors.

Pekoms: The very first thing he hyped up about Big Mom as a Yonko, was her influence.


Why Marco didn't become an emperor? Because he wasn't the captain... lol. Whitebeard was the one with 50 or so allied captains. 16 divisions. Not Marco...Marco simply went on the defense because he wanted to protect what Whitebeard once held.


Are the Yonko themselves strong? Yes
But does the "Yonko" refer strictly to their personal combat strength? No


World's Strongest Swordsman on the other hand is strictly about standing on top of the most used fighting style in one piece.


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## Dellinger (Jul 20, 2019)

Theoryking said:


> Excuse? I don't think you understand what a "Yonko" is.
> 
> Garp: 4 most powerful pirates that rule like emperors. How does one rule like an emperor? Having a lot of territories, armies, allies resulting in giant influence.. if they didn't rule like emperors they wouldn't be the 4 emperors.
> 
> ...



Yeah yet you're side tracking everything. What was WB ? World's strongest man. What is Kaido ? WSC. Big Mom literally was a natural born disaster, killing legendary giants at the age of 5. She can't get damaged and Kaido is unkillable. 

Also Marco took over leading the crew so you are wrong here.

Doflamingo arguably has as big of an influence yet he is not a Yonko. Why ? because he pales in comparison when it comes to strength. 

Oda didn't introduce the Yonko with the intention of them simply being emperors because they have these networks and influence because they have big crews and shit. Yonko have all that shit because they are the 4 strongest pirates in the series. They have such an overwhelming strength that either you choose to follow them or you simply die. Pekoms was clear on that.


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## Theoryking (Jul 20, 2019)

Dellinger said:


> Yeah yet you're side tracking everything. What was WB ? World's strongest man. What is Kaido ? WSC. Big Mom literally was a natural born disaster, killing legendary giants at the age of 5. She can't get damaged and Kaido is unkillable.
> 
> Also Marco took over leading the crew so you are wrong here.
> 
> ...


Side tracked?? You're the one sidetracking here mate. 

Is the discussion about WSM vs WSS? Nope
Is it about WSC vs WSS? Nope

What is the discussion about? The title of Yonko and what it refers to. 

Marco never became the "captain".. they were referred to as Marco & the Whitebeard remnants..It never became the "phoenix pirates"  or "marco pirates" or w.e... 

Doflamingo's influence is as big as a Yonko? Say what.. Doflamingo was the king of 1 tiny ass island. Yonko rule VAST amount of islands. Doflamingo has 1 scrawny crews. The Yonko have multiple crews like that under them. The Yonko have multiple people stronger than Doflamingo under them. The Yonko own armadas. Doflamingo himself doesn't have anywhere near the amount of influence the Yonko have lol. 


------------------
*Allow me to refresh your memory on what Pekoms said: *

Chapter 815 pg.4-5,  Sanji would have the heads of his family members, crewmates, or friends sent to him if he refused.. and he wouldn't be do anything about it. That's what it means to be a Yonko, having overwhelming power. 

She at anytime she wants can have somebody killed all the way across the world, and Sanji wouldn't be able to do shit about. Can massacre his entire family.. can't do shit about it.. That's what it means to have influence my man.. and that's what it means to be an emperor of the seas. 
-----------


I'll repeat again:  Are the yonko strong pirates? Yes... Does the word "yonko" refer to their personal combat strength? No. 

Mihawk can be stronger than all 4 of them, and he still won't be referred to as an emperor, because one doesn't become an emperor by drinking wine in his castle all alone and farming in free time.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Jul 20, 2019)

Theoryking said:


> Side tracked?? You're the one sidetracking here mate.
> 
> Is the discussion about WSM vs WSS? Nope
> Is it about WSC vs WSS? Nope
> ...


get him boy ... welcome


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## Steven (Jul 20, 2019)

Theoryking said:


> Side tracked?? You're the one sidetracking here mate.
> 
> Is the discussion about WSM vs WSS? Nope
> Is it about WSC vs WSS? Nope
> ...


TR;DR but i know you show us why Mihawk is Yonkoulevel

Like


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## Nox (Jul 21, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> it was either in a magazine or the VC





Light D Lamperouge said:


> The translation is done by Den Den Mushi, it is from a vc, or a databook which included special vcs I guess. First paragraph, last sentence.



Aaah, a non canon source. Which means its credibility is on shaky ground. I was expecting it to be one of Oda's interviews. Cause those seems to hold more weight, outside the Manga.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nox (Jul 21, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Dude Akainu cucked down to shanks before Sengoku called off the war; as he immediately stops attacking Shanks once his arm gets blown away by Shanks blocking his attack



Welcome to 2008. Sakazuki is an Admiral under Marine and World Government employ. In order to ARREST Luffy, Kizaru had to ask for permission to leave his station. <<< You believe Sakazuki would be allowed to wantonly attack a second Emperor!! Whilst they were in the midst of a war with another? Shanks arrived and impedes his rampage and subsequently challenged MARINEFORD to a battle. It was Sengoku who asked his forces to stand. As it was HE who held the HIGHEST military authority in Marineford. I see you have a Naruto avatar. You must believe Shanks talking fixed everything.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Xebec (Jul 24, 2019)

Why hasn't this thread been trashed? It's clearly bait made and perpetuated by troll Mihawk fanboys


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## Asaya7 (Jul 24, 2019)

Malos said:


> Why hasn't this thread been trashed? It's clearly bait made and perpetuated by troll Mihawk fanboys


@Light D Lamperouge 
you a troll mihawk fanboy?

didnt know bruh.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 24, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> @Light D Lamperouge
> you a troll mihawk fanboy?
> 
> didnt know bruh.


It seems so, I did not know either tbh.



For real though, I am baffled by this guy, he posted like 5 times in here, each time something more absurd than before.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jul 24, 2019)

Malos said:


> Why hasn't this thread been trashed? It's clearly bait made and perpetuated by troll Mihawk fanboys


Get lost dude

Reactions: Like 2


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## Onyx Emperor (Jul 24, 2019)

Big mom and Shanks are swordsmen.
Mihawk is strongest swordsman
Mihawk > Shanks and Big mom.
Only Kaido and Blackbeard are under some kind of question.

*Spoiler*: __ 



it's all sarcasm


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## Light D Lamperouge (Jul 24, 2019)

The Overvoid said:


> Big mom and Shanks are swordsmen.
> Mihawk is strongest swordsman
> Mihawk > Shanks and Big mom.
> Only Kaido and Blackbeard are under some kind of question.
> ...


Great post, a thorough analysis and use of feats, hype and portrayal presented in the manga, as well as the information in vcs and databooks coupled with the extraordinary and eloquent delivery on your behalf. Concise and to the point, with superb argumentation, thus leaving no room for even a semblance of an attempt of refutation. Truly remarkable.


*Spoiler*: __ 



 It's all sarcasm.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sengoku (Jul 25, 2019)

The Overvoid said:


> Big mom and Shanks are swordsmen.
> Mihawk is strongest swordsman
> Mihawk > Shanks and Big mom.
> Only Kaido and Blackbeard are under some kind of question.
> ...



Please do tell why you think Shanks and Big Mom are stronger than Mihawk. Then, please explain why Kaido and Blackbeard are iffy. Please educate the crowds here so that we can have other informative perspective for people to think about. I love posters who congregate together and discuss valid points here in NF. Thank you and hope to hear from you soon.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Jul 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> *Please do tell why you think Shanks and Big Mom are stronger than Mihawk*. Then, please explain why Kaido and Blackbeard are iffy. Please educate the crowds here so that we can have other informative perspective for people to think about. I love posters who congregate together and discuss valid points here in NF. Thank you and hope to hear from you soon.



Mihawk > Shanks and Big mom

means he think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks and Big mom ... just don't open the spoilers in his post and your life is easier


p.s

it's just so funny how people forgot every argument about Shanks and Big Mom and act every time as if this is the first time people are talking about them


but again ... a man who think Sabo > Big Mom  would really die if he think about Big Mom > Mihawk


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## Onyx Emperor (Jul 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> Please do tell why you think Shanks and Big Mom are stronger than Mihawk. Then, please explain why Kaido and Blackbeard are iffy.


I am not stating anything, there's no scaling of full out mihawk to full out yonkos.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sengoku (Jul 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Mihawk > Shanks and Big mom
> 
> means he think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks and Big mom ... just don't open the spoilers in his post and your life is easier
> 
> ...


That's cute.
Sabo would never stoop that low and be defeated by King or Queen in that type of embarrassing fashion. Not in a million years. But then again, your weak and pathetic idol got his poor limb torn off by a creature Jango or Axe Hand Morgan can defeat. Try again.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> That's cute.
> Sabo would never stoop that low and be defeated by King or Queen in that type of embarrassing fashion. Not in a million years. But then again, your weak and pathetic idol got his poor limb torn off by a creature Jango or Axe Hand Morgan can defeat. Try again.



so since Sabo is stronger than a ship ... he is Yonko level ... hmmm

and since big mom had a shock of memory and was 100% off gurad ... she got low diff


I guess we are agree on cute part ... some trolls


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## Sengoku (Jul 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so since Sabo is stronger than a ship ... he is Yonko level ... hmmm
> 
> and since big mom had a shock of memory and was 100% off gurad ... she got low diff



The hell does amnesia have anything to do with her powers? Oh that is right. Absolutely nothing. Quit bullshitting again.
She lost some memories, not her powers.

and 100% off guard?



Yeah she was clearly "off guard" and not looking up.

You should learn how to bullshit better. 
Try again.


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## Red Admiral (Jul 25, 2019)

Sengoku said:


> The hell does amnesia have anything to do with her powers? Oh that is right. Absolutely nothing. Quit bullshitting again.
> She lost some memories, not her powers.
> 
> and 100% off guard?
> ...




the shock after having her memory back was the main reason she lost her mind ... she was smiling ... not with a face of hurt and injured all Queen gave her was a little pain in the head ... same as Kaido 10 K jump did to him
so looking up in last moment means he was on guard? she use no Haki , no DF and do nothing means shit but she look in sky means she was ready to go ... funny
I want to know bullshit ... so please tell me your fist name since that should do it perfectly

the one who say Sabo > Big Mom call otherwise bullshit on the high horse 
trolls this days ...


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## Sengoku (Jul 25, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> the shock after having her memory back was the main reason she lost her mind ... she was smiling ... not with a face of hurt and injured all Queen gave her was a little pain in the head ... same as Kaido 10 K jump did to him
> 
> so looking up in last moment means he was on guard? she use no Haki , no DF and do nothing means shit but she look in sky means she was ready to go ... funny



All I hear are excuses. Well, it's a typical trait of yours anyway.

First of all, she is an emperor. A being who is supposed to be unmatched in the pirates world through and through. Think about it. One Piece top tier characters are BEYOND lightning timers.

Secondly,
Barring air resistance, objects fall at the same speed regardless of mass.


So assuming One Piece was earth itself, Queen was traveling at around *9.8 m/s* downward.
Now, how fast is lightning? *97222 m/s*.
How fast is Big Mom supposed to be? She "SHOULD" be faster than 97222 m/s the moment she looked at Queen which was clearly shown.

Even if you expand the world to many folds greater than earth's size, the free fall speed still wouldn't even be NEAR lightning speed, much less a faster motion at that.

The idea that Big Mom couldn't move away fast enough should convey a simple message to that noggin of yours: Stop wanking the emperors like they are the end all be all. There are non-emperor characters who could put up a good fight and even win against them -> Mihawk, admirals, etc...



> I want to know bullshit ... so please tell me your fist name since that should do it perfectly


Just explained your bullshit antics. At least put some conscientious effort in your excuses first.


Try again.


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## Kinjin (Jul 25, 2019)

Thread lost its original purpose. Closed.


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