# Dangai Ichigo vs Kingdom Hearts



## NeoKurama (Jul 16, 2011)

Can he solo the verse?


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## Xaosin (Jul 16, 2011)

No. 

No no no no no no no no........

Way to many powerful people here that will fuck him up.


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## Nevermind (Jul 16, 2011)

Doubtful, but inb4 "Sora'sreflegareflectsanyshit" arguments.


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## OS (Jul 16, 2011)

Not if Mickey has anything to say about it.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

He's physically stronger than everyone...by alot, and should be around their level of speed.

Only a handfull of characters can even fight Ichigo(Riku, Sora, Xemnas)the rest get brutally sodomized


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## HiroshiSenju (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo should do well in the verse, but he'd obviously lose to hax.


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## Sol_Blackguy (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo could probaly fight Top tiers like Sora, Riku, Xemmas etc, but I think either of those characters would destroy him.


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## I3igAl (Jul 16, 2011)

Don't know anything about the game but I stumbled about a clip in youtube form kingdom Heart 2, where you have to fight Jafar in the genie-form as a boss. With PIS/game mechanics off he Ichigo should stand a chance at all against him.


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## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2011)

He gets brutally sodomized


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## Disaresta (Jul 16, 2011)

I3igAl said:


> Don't know anything about the game but I stumbled about a clip in youtube form kingdom Heart 2, where you have to fight Jafar in the genie-form as a boss. With PIS/game mechanics off he Ichigo should stand a chance at all against him.



Against the top tiers that solo the hst??? nah not a chance...even if he can beat sora or riku, biggest if ever by the way. Xemnas and xehanort blow his shit up...


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

Xemnas and Xehanort can solo the HST?

Did they gain something when I wasn't looking?


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## I3igAl (Jul 16, 2011)

Disaresta said:


> Against the top tiers that solo the hst??? nah not a chance...even if he can beat sora or riku, biggest if ever by the way. Xemnas and xehanort blow his shit up...



It was a typing error. I wanted to write Ichigo *shouldn' stand a chance*, [if Jafar has the realtity warping powers he has in the movies].


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## Thor (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo is faster and stronger than anyone in KH. He wins handily.


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo isn't faster, hell I don't think there's a speed pegged down for him higher than mach 5.


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## Freddy Mercury (Jul 16, 2011)

He'll be lucky if he could fight on par with a non-serious Sephiroth or Xemnas.


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## Disaresta (Jul 16, 2011)

zenieth said:


> *Xehanort* can solo the HST?
> 
> Did they gain something when I wasn't looking?



Haven't seen anyone that can resist their verse being wiped


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

With what, the door to darkness?

That takes an assload of time to actually do the deed.

Ichigo from feats is physically better than basically every KH character. It's their hax and speed that beat him.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo showed better firepower than anyone in KH via casual hillbusting. Not to mention he took a hit from Monster Aizen's multi-city block buster which carved a huge crater into the earth and still capable of fighting. And he tanked a slash from Aizen which overpowered Komamura's slash which carved a huge fissure on the ground. I see Ichigo taking this. 



Disaresta said:


> Haven't seen anyone that can resist their verse being wiped



Any keyblade bearer can open the door to darkness for the heartless to consume any world they are on. But that move is only exclusive in the KH verse.


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## AlmightyPain (Jul 16, 2011)

He'd lose to top tiers.


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## Francesco. (Jul 16, 2011)

Genie
10char


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

KH Genie and Jafar aren't shown to be as powerful as their movie counterparts.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

He loses to Sora, Riku, Cloud, Ansem, Xehanort, Xemnas, Mickey, Roxas, Ventus, Terra, Aqua and a few more.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> He loses to Sora, Riku, Cloud, Ansem, Xehanort, Xemnas, Mickey, Roxas, Ventus, Terra, Aqua and a few more.



Is it alright if someone please show me how these guys have better feats than Ichigo?


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Is it alright if someone please show me how these guys have better feats than Ichigo?



How about you show how Ichigo has better feats than these guys.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> How about you show how Ichigo has better feats than these guys.



So...

That's your response to someone asking for feats?

Just post the damn feats.  He apparently doesn't share your opinion of KH's inherent superiority.



That's his slashing power and his durability showing.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

KH is only winning this due to hax


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Name: Sora
Origin: Kingdom Hearts
Gender: Male
Classification: Human
Age: 16-17
Powers and Abilities: Super strength, speed, durability, agility, time manipulation, flight/levitation, energy manipulation, electromagnetic and gravity manipulation, summoning, can make an afterimage with speed movements, can use various spells/abilities, has forms to increase his stats and expert swordsman
Weaknesses: None Shown
Destructive capacity: Large building level+
Range: Several dozen meters with projectiles
Speed: Hypersonic+
Durability: Large building level+ (likely higher)
Strength: 100 tons+ (Is able to cut down several large solid blocks in a row with the Keyblade, was also playing tennis with them against Xemnas)
Stamina: Superhuman+, can bulldoze through 1000 heartless, though it appears to be inconsistent
Standard Equipment: A Keyblade
Intelligence: Is the Keyblade Master and has knowledge of many home worlds
Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Reflega: A broken spell that will reflect any attack regardless of its strength *cough*nolimitsfallacy*cough*

- Stop: Allows Sora to stop time.

- Summon Genie: Sora summons Genie from Alladin who is a massive reality warper.

- Explosion: Sora can make several magical spheres surround him and explode.

- Guard Break: Sora bounces back while twirling his Keyblade and delivers a powerful lunging strike.

- Double Slash: Sora does a quick slide, pulling himself near the enemy and damaging them.

- Upper Slash: Air combo starter; durin g the period of executing ground combos, this will allow Sora to smack the targeted enemy into the air.

- Verse Busting: Usually requires a heartless combo, Sora can just open the fictional verse's keyhole, which all fictional verses have, and unlock it. Then, a heartless, or someone with equivalent powers of corruption, can just consume it, effectively defeating the whole verse.

All from ODB wikia. So basically Sora is better version of Ichigo.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> How about you show how Ichigo has better feats than these guys.


Burden of proof is actually on you since I asked first.

I really don't recall anyone in KH being a casual hill buster just with a swing of his sword.
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?

Or surviving a multi-block buster which carved a huge crater deep into the ground
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?

Or tanking a slash from Aizen 
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
which overpowered Koma's slash
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
which created this fissure
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?



Brohan said:


> KH is only winning this due to hax


The only hax I remember is time-stop? What other hax are there? Game mechanics doesn't count.



ShineMonkey said:


> Name: Sora
> Origin: Kingdom Hearts
> Gender: Male
> Classification: Human
> ...



Posting the wiki is NOT a valid substitude for feats. 
Post some scans or vids.


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## AlmightyPain (Jul 16, 2011)

The OBD wiki is a horrible reference tool.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

Time stop is all they need, considering the Ichigo isn't faster than KH top tiers.

EDIT: That wiki entry is wrong, it can't even get his age right


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## NeoKurama (Jul 16, 2011)

Epic fail posting the wiki.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

Brohan said:


> Time stop is all they need, considering the Ichigo isn't faster than KH top tiers.



Well with the durability feats I just posted there's nothing the cast can do that can hurt him.

But I retrack my original statement. KH only wins this via sheer numbers like I forgot about Nobodies armada or Heartless Spacefleets,


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Well with the durability feats I just posted there's nothing the cast can do that can hurt him.
> 
> But I retrack my original statement. KH only wins this via sheer numbers like I forgot about Nobodies armada or Heartless Spacefleets,



Sora was manhandling Bijuu sized heartless as a lion, not quantfiable, but easily enough to hurt Ichigo.

EDIT: And those feats you posted are iffy, Ichigo didn't tank Aizen's slash, he caught it, and blunt force durability doesn't equate to durability towards cutting attacks.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Did I get inb4 the OBD's retarded ftl bullshit?
Probably not

Anyways it wouldn't matter, this verse wanking shit is funny.
The entire verse?
He gets swarmed by so many different magics coming from so many angles it's impossible to dodge, and dies, plain and simple.
Every heartless spell caster, Every nobody, Boss, Protagonists, theres far too many attacks, he gets raped.

Ichigo can casual hillbust all he wants when Master Xehanort casually creates such hills.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

k i found something

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDwMFLYA6hk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Sora slashing Skyscrapers at the beginning then later on sending more back at Xemnas. Ichigo's durability is Large Bulding Level. Most people in Kingdom Hearts are as powerful as Sora so they can do the same.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

Brohan said:


> Sora was manhandling Bijuu sized heartless as a lion, not quantfiable, but easily enough to hurt Ichigo.



Ichigo survived Aizen's multi-block buster which carved a huge crater on the ground like I posted. Still beyond anything Sora and the cast had done.



ShineMonkey said:


> k i found something
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDwMFLYA6hk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Sora slashing Skyscrapers at the beginning then later on sending more back at Xemnas. Ichigo's durability is Large Bulding Level. Most people in Kingdom Hearts are as powerful as Sora so they can do the same.



Those aren't skyscrappers. Those buildings are just 4-5 stories high if you look at them closely. Sides, Ichigo was building slicer too since SS arc
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
and in case you didn't read my scans earlier, Ichigo tanked Aizen's slash 
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
which overpowered Koma's slash
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
which created this fissure
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
still beyond anything Sora has shown

And Ichigo is a casual hill buster with a swing of his sword, Sora never showed such a thing.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> k i found something
> 
> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDwMFLYA6hk&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Sora slashing Skyscrapers at the beginning then later on sending more back at Xemnas. Ichigo's durability is Large Bulding Level. Most people in Kingdom Hearts are as powerful as Sora so they can do the same.



Ichigo's durability is multi cityblock level at least


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Ichigo survived Aizen's multi-block buster which carved a huge crater on the ground like I posted. Still beyond anything Sora and the cast had done.



Blunt force durability doesn't equate to durability towards cutting attacks


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Which is bigger a hill or a skyscraper.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> Which is bigger a hill or a skyscraper.



A depends, Hill level is generally multiblock to town level

@Heroic Trunks

In those scans he's catching Aizen's sword between his fingers, not tanking it full on like he did against his blast


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

Brohan said:


> Blunt force durability doesn't equate to durability towards cutting attacks



Sora's feat of manhandling that heartless is blunt force. With Ichigo's durability from aizen's attack, that point is pretty much moot.

And I already posted Ichigo's cutting durability twice above in case you haven't notice.



ShineMonkey said:


> Which is bigger a hill or a skyscraper.


Those aren't skyscrappers.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Could Ichigo beat the KH verse 1v1?


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> Could Ichigo beat the KH verse 1v1?



With the feats I posted, yes he can. All at once he can't because Heartless and Nobodies space fleets is going to maul him over.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Or tanking a slash from Aizen
> So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
> So the scenario is one day you get his Terror Toon dvd and without any knowledge of it, you pop it in and watch it and suddenly these two gruesome toons come to life. What happens to you? Do they rip out your spine, lobotomize your brains, cut you into pizza slices, cut you in half waiting for cartoon vultures to eat you, and explode you with bombs OR do you teach them a lesson on who's a true toon?
> which overpowered Koma's slash
> ...



That's not a feat of taking a slash.
He catches the sword in his hand, what he's tanking is the shockwave.
Fiction is friendlier to blunt forces then it is to cutting forces.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> With the feats I posted, yes he can. All at once he can't because Heartless and Nobodies space fleets is going to maul him over.



Meh I don't know..Those feats are impressive yes but with their magic capabilities he probably would beat the low  tiers but the higher tiers I'm not so sure.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo's not taking the entire verse regardless, this shouldn't even be disputed.

Numbers, his own stamina, the amount of simultaneous attacks, creatures/characters with forms of temporary intangibility/evasion.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> That's not a feat of taking a slash.
> He catches the sword in his hand, what he's tanking is the shockwave.
> Fiction is friendlier to blunt forces then it is to cutting forces.


Actually it is. Because the shockwave is a cutting force itself as it is shown to cut through things beyond the length of the blade. 



ShineMonkey said:


> Meh I don't know..Those feats are impressive yes but with their magic capabilities he probably would beat the low  tiers but the higher tiers I'm not so sure.



There's no magical capabilities in KH that has shown to be beyond what Ichigo has tanked. Most of them are game mechanics too.


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## dwabn (Jul 16, 2011)

time stop, genie /thread


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Actually it is. Because the shockwave is a cutting force itself as it is shown to cut through things beyond the length of the blade.
> 
> The air generated extends beyond that of just the blades path. Which is why things underneath the blade and above the blade are also affected.
> In addition the wind generated is not as strong as the actual blade,
> ...


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> The air generated extends beyond that of just the blades path. Which is why things underneath the blade and above the blade are also affected.
> In addition the wind generated is not as strong as the actual blade,
> Not that all of this particularly matters in shounen.


Aizen and Ichigo held their respective opponent's blades with their hands at point blank which means they tanked both the wind generated and the actual slash that generated the wind. 



ensoriki said:


> Master Xehanort throws whatever world they are fighting in, into darkness.


That feat is only exclusive in the KH verse since basically he's like asking the Heartless swarm to consume the world. If the battlefield takes place in RoSaT or in a neutral verse, he can't do that.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Aizen and Ichigo held their respective opponent's blades with their hands at point blank which means they tanked both the wind generated and the actual slash that generated the wind.
> 
> 
> That feat is only exclusive in the KH verse since basically he's like asking the Heartless swarm to consume the world. If the battlefield takes place in RoSaT or in a neutral verse, he can't do that.



That's like saying Ichigo get's soloed by all verses because Reiatsu is only exclusive to the bleach verse.


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## Amorozov (Jul 16, 2011)

Is the time stopping ability only game mechanic or is it used in the storyline too? And how powerful are the genies in Kindgom Hearts?

Amorozov.


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## Toriko (Jul 16, 2011)

Sora used it in a summon with genie and summons are canonto the story, so that's one of the magics he actually can use outside of gameplay mechanics


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

Unless those hax have hurt characters as powerful as Dangai Ichigo I doubt they would work. Assuming they would work is a no limit fallacy. Ichigo for me takes this. Remember Aizen Sousake is pretty hax and his illusions didn't work on Ichigo, he can tank Aizen level Hax's.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Only power Ichigo got's going for him is his strength and speed.A lot of Kingdom hearts characters are as fast as Ichigo combined with their hax pull of the win. In regards to their strength, Sora can cut building easily and a lot of characters are as strong as Sora.


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo can't take it due to sheer numbers and hax like Genie.

Also the guy who said Ichigo can't work in the ROSAT. Dangai ichigo doesn't work on Reitsu 

World of Darkness literally is a nonfactor as it takes far too much time to actually get the job done.

And If I see another argument about Creating a hill equating to Hillbusting abilities I'm going to smack a fucker.


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

And really the only hax that'll work is Luxord, Genie and the Doorways


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

What kind of Hax does the verse present just saying due to Hax they win isn't a really good argument. If Genie is a reality warper then Ichigo will lose but if you took out Genie Ichigo will win.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Time stop, reflecting any attack, different forms, a bunch of magic, and genie.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

The Genie is to much for Ichigo and maybe the time stop depending how it works, the reflecting attack one won't work and magic in general won't work.


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## Alucardemi (Jul 16, 2011)

I haven't seen anything from KH capable of breaching Ichigo's durability.

Hax working on his is doubtful, he'd probably be immune to most of them like he was to Aizen's super Hado.


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> The Genie is to much for Ichigo and maybe the time stop depending how it works, the reflecting attack one won't work and magic in general won't work.



If magic in general won't work then Genie and Time Stop won't work, but why wouldn't it work?


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Heroic Trunks said:


> Aizen and Ichigo held their respective opponent's blades with their hands at point blank which means they tanked both the wind generated and the actual slash that generated the wind.


No.
He does not get hit by the edge of the blade.
He catches the blade before it actually touches him.
Look at your own scans 



> That feat is only exclusive in the KH verse since basically he's like asking the Heartless swarm to consume the world. If the battlefield takes place in RoSaT or in a neutral verse, he can't do that.


Oh is that why the geography of the land gets fucked up?
Oh wait no it's not .
Derp Reiatsu crush is exclusive only to bleach


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> If magic in general won't work then Genie and Time Stop won't work, but why wouldn't it work?



Genie I'm putting in the category of reality warping and time stop is time stop. I'm talking about lower level magic like, turning people in playing cards. It won't work because of a no limit fallacy those magical spell with there unknown mechanics were never used against someone as powerful as Ichigo. So it can't be assumed they would work.


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## Alucardemi (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Genie I'm putting in the category of reality warping and time stop is time stop. I'm talking about lower level magic like, turning people in playing cards. It won't work because of a no limit fallacy those magical spell with there unknown mechanics were never used against someone as powerful as Ichigo. So it can't be assumed they would work.



I'd probably show how he would resist hax due to him outright ridiculing Aizen's Super Hado(and Aizen is one of the best Hado users; not to mention he was in 3rd Form).


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## Light (Jul 16, 2011)

Yeah from a low level character it won't probably work, but Sora and Ichigo aren't that far apart in power for magic not to work on him.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Genie I'm putting in the category of reality warping and time stop is time stop. I'm talking about lower level magic like, turning people in playing cards. It won't work because of a no limit fallacy those magical spell with there unknown mechanics were never used against someone as powerful as Ichigo. So it can't be assumed they would work.



Lol powerful as what?
Because Ichigo can slash a hill that means he can resist magic?
If anything what's equally as bad as a no-limits fallacy, is the I-can-do-A-which-means-B-regardless-of-what-it-is-can-be-stopped view.

Point, what resistance did Ichigo ever show to transmutation?
....mmmhmmm.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Lol powerful as what?
> Because Ichigo can slash a hill that means he can resist magic?
> If anything what's equally as bad as a no-limits fallacy, is the I-can-do-A-which-means-B-regardless-of-what-it-is-can-be-stopped view.
> 
> ...



Aizen was capable of casting magic spells including his black coffin and Ichigo tanked that easily.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Black coffin isn't transmutation.
Try again.


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## Amorozov (Jul 16, 2011)

Unless Dangai Ichigo hasn't shown resistance towards transmutation or similar magic, or he is a magic user himself, we've got no reason to think that he could resist it.

Amorozov.


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## Alucardemi (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Black coffin isn't transmutation.
> Try again.



Aside from Genie, who uses that? Genie would punk him, but I often don't like to include him in matches.

I said he could resist some of the hax, black coffin was distorting space and time to an unknown degree.

Besides, if Aizen used any other of the various Hado, they wouldb't have worked either.


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## Majinvergil (Jul 16, 2011)

He's not soloing the verse.

to many characters + to many hax


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## Majinvergil (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Genie I'm putting in the category of reality warping and time stop is time stop. I'm talking about lower level magic like, turning people in playing cards. It won't work because of a no limit fallacy those magical spell with there unknown mechanics were never used against someone as powerful as Ichigo. So it can't be assumed they would work.


scans of ichigo ever resisting transmutation?

By you're logic ,soul fuck won't wort on dbz characters then


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Alucardemi said:


> Aside from Genie, who uses that? Genie would punk him, but I often don't like to include him in matches.


And? 
Point made, he has shown not even the slightest resistance to transmutation, so there should be no argument of transmutation affecting him if it connects.



> I said he could resist some of the hax, black coffin was distorting space and time to an unknown degree.


An unknown degree?
What's that supposed to mean?
Didn't one of Einsteins theories have it so that gravity was a warpature of space? As in my ass on this chair distorts space and time to an unknown degree?



> Besides, if Aizen used any other of the various Hado, they wouldb't have worked either.


La la la, prove it


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## Thor (Jul 16, 2011)

Majinvergil said:


> scans of ichigo ever resisting transmutation?
> 
> By you're logic ,soul fuck won't wort on dbz characters then



 what does dbz have to do with this fight. I sure do love the "debating" tactics of the OBD.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

Oh geez please don't bring DBZ into this :/. I even said Genie can beat Ichigo why are you arguing with me.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> And?
> Point made, he has shown not even the slightest resistance to transmutation, so there should be no argument of transmutation affecting him if it connects.
> 
> 
> ...



I think the proof is self evident that they wouldn't of worked considering how Aizen was shitting in his pants. Ever since those Bleach trolls wanked Aizen, the OBD I noticed doesn't take bleach seriously at all.


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## Alucardemi (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> And?
> Point made, he has shown not even the slightest resistance to transmutation, so there should be no argument of transmutation affecting him if it connects.
> 
> 
> ...



1) When he gets to Genie, sure. But I wonder then why are you even including Genie to make It a completely unfair fight, intead we could at least try and decide how far he gets before he reached Genie, and who he could take besides him.

2) Unknown degree meaning It was enough to blacken the envirorment. It's obviously more than the distortion your mass would ever be able to make. Point is, Ichigo dispelled completely a distortion in space/time.

I see no reason why a featless time-stop spell would work on him.

3) Yea, so his strongest Hado in 3rd form dosen't work, but any other far weaker one performed earilier in Bleach would've.

Common sense.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> I think the proof is self evident that they wouldn't of worked considering how Aizen was shitting in his pants. Ever since those Bleach trolls wanked Aizen, the OBD I noticed doesn't take bleach seriously at all.



Even if we go by the idea that all hado does not work.
That is still just hado and not representatie of all of Kido nor is it a proper representation for how Ichigo can somehow deal with any supernatural attack or encounter that comes at him.



Alucardemi said:


> 1) When he gets to Genie, sure. But I wonder then why are you even including Genie to make It a completely unfair fight, intead we could at least try and decide how far he gets before he reached Genie, and who he could take besides him.


You must forget that Jafar is also a genie.



> 2) Unknown degree meaning It was enough to blacken the envirorment. It's obviously more than the distortion your mass would ever be able to make. Point is, Ichigo dispelled completely a distortion in space/time.


It made the sky black? So what.

[quote
I see no reason why a featless time-stop spell would work on him.
[/quote]
He has no feats against it. 



> 3) Yea, so his strongest Hado in 3rd form dosen't work, but any other far weaker one performed earilier in Bleach would've.


I forgot about the linearity of bleach's "magic".
Not that Ichigo can just "break" every hado he comes across like Black Coffin.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Even if we go by the idea that all hado does not work.
> That is still just hado and not representatie of all of Kido nor is it a proper representation for how Ichigo can somehow deal with any supernatural attack or encounter that comes at him.



It's called powerscaling and it's common sense that Dangai Ichigo can tank all Kido that wouldn't affect 3rd form Aizen, besides the reality warpers in Kingdom hearts, no character can beat Ichigo.


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## ensoriki (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> It's called powerscaling and it's common sense that Dangai Ichigo can tank Kido, besides the reality warpers in Kingdom hearts, no character can beat Ichigo.



Powerscaling for your ABC logic. 

Kido does not simply mean damage.
But I guess you don't get that.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> Powerscaling for your ABC logic.
> 
> Kido does not simply mean damage.
> But I guess you don't get that.



When did I ever suggest because Ichigo can destroy city blocks that he can resist magic  typical straw man argument going on here.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> No.
> He does not get hit by the edge of the blade.
> He catches the blade before it actually touches him.
> Look at your own scans


Still, Aizen also tanked and overpowered that air slash that cut through all that layers of rock, Ichigo overpowered Aizen. It is still beyond what KH has to offer with building level slashes which Bleach has shown since SS arc. 



ensoriki said:


> Oh is that why the geography of the land gets fucked up?
> Oh wait no it's not .
> Derp Reiatsu crush is exclusive only to bleach


Since when does a neutral verse or RoTaS have doors to darkness? Xehanort can't open them if they don't exist in the environment which they aren't. The tech will work if his opponent get stranded on some random world in KH and no means of getting out. But he can't do it if the battlefield takes place in another verse. 



Physics Man said:


> It's called powerscaling and it's common sense that Dangai Ichigo can tank all Kido that wouldn't affect 3rd form Aizen, besides the reality warpers in Kingdom hearts, no character can beat Ichigo.


Actually, the KH versions of Genie and Jafar aren't shown to be as powerful as their movie counterparts where they are spinning planets and stuff. The KH versions are just throwing buildings and warping the weather and grant riches.


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## Alucardemi (Jul 16, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> You must forget that Jafar is also a genie.



Fine.

When he gets to the Genie*s* or reality warpers.



ensoriki said:


> It made the sky black? So what.



So what, that Ichigo can apparently dispell distortions in time/space with a wave of his hand.



ensoriki said:


> He has no feats against it



Except dispelling a distortion in time/space with a wave of his hand.



ensoriki said:


> I forgot about the linearity of bleach's "magic".
> Not that Ichigo can just "break" every hado he comes across like Black Coffin.



Of course he could.

Do you think, for instance, a Bankin would be able to restrain him?

I think not.


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## Omnirix (Jul 16, 2011)

Alucardemi said:


> So what, that Ichigo can apparently dispell distortions in time/space with a wave of his hand.


We never seen the attack actually taking place before Ichigo removes it. Aizen had been losing his sanity and composure during that time. So that statement is unquantificable and can be written off as hyperbole for the time being.


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## Physics Man (Jul 16, 2011)

Well in the strictest sense it's true because any mass warps spacetime but we don't know to what degree probably not enough to hurt most even weak fictional characters that are above peak human.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 16, 2011)

Didn't Ichigo destroy his black coffin before it even finished forming?


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## Matta Clatta (Jul 16, 2011)

^ this is true so we don't really know how much of its power he tanked


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## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2011)

doors exists on all universes since KH works on a multiverse mechanics


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## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2011)

> Except dispelling a distortion in time/space with a wave of his hand.



that sentence has many types of stupid on it

No wait


It only has one


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 16, 2011)

Dangai Ichigo cannot travel planet to planet and he has a short time limit.
How would he even deal with KH?


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## Dandy Elegance (Jul 16, 2011)

I think we're meant to assume he can do it indefinitely and is capable of that... because.


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## Caxe7 (Jul 16, 2011)

Ichigo would have a great chance 1 vs 1, but all at once with the universes sheer numbers and hax Ichigo would lose.


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## Banhammer (Jul 16, 2011)

he dies in the first spaceship battle out of twilight town


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## Majinvergil (Jul 16, 2011)

Physics Man said:


> Oh geez please don't bring DBZ into this :/. I even said Genie can beat Ichigo why are you arguing with me.


I'm not bringing dbz into this .I was just making a point of how there not resistent to soul fuck.

Still need a scan of ichigo resisting transmutation.

Ichigo is indeed strong but he loses due  facing an entire verse with hax


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## zenieth (Jul 16, 2011)

Really Ichigo can manhandle just about everyone

He really only loses to

DtD users (I'd only say 1/3 of these guys cause most aren't smart enough to think to use it for BFR)
Luxord's cards
Sora due to genie
Jafar
Overwhelmed by nobodies/heartless


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## Uncle Phantom (Jul 16, 2011)

Proof that KH doors can work on any and all universes in fiction?


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## Disaresta (Jul 17, 2011)

Eternal Sleep said:


> Proof that KH doors can work on any and all universes in fiction?



Because the KH verse operates outside of the fourth wall...


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## Eldritch Sukima (Jul 17, 2011)

ensoriki said:


> No.
> He does not get hit by the edge of the blade.
> He catches the blade before it actually touches him.
> Look at your own scans



Invincibles blast

Looks like the blade is touching his hand to me.


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## TargaryenX (Jul 17, 2011)

> Proof that KH doors can work on any and all universes in fiction?



KH itself takes place in multiple verses, there's no reason to assume the Bleach verse is different from say, the Aladdin verse or the Tron verse. The burden of proof lies on you.

I don't see why we're arguing Sora Vs. Ichigo when Xemnas, Master Xehanort, and Sephiroth are all substantially stronger. One thing we're forgetting about the building-busting feat is that Xemnas was the one casually hurling those buildings around with TK. 

Invincibles blast

Sora is ridiculously fast and Xemnas takes him completely off-guard (1:00). He also has the soul steal hax, which he was again able to land on Sora easily (3:40). To top it off, he has the ability to create clones of himself. The only reason he lost that fight was plot jobbing and because it was 2-on-1.


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually the burden of proof lies with the people saying that DtD can be used in every and any verse just because it was used in the multiple worlds of KH and those worlds are far from separate universes.


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## Baroxio (Jul 17, 2011)




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## Majinvergil (Jul 17, 2011)

TargaryenX said:


> KH itself takes place in multiple verses, there's no reason to assume the Bleach verse is different from say, the Aladdin verse or the Tron verse. The burden of proof lies on you.
> 
> I don't see why we're arguing Sora Vs. Ichigo when Xemnas, Master Xehanort, and Sephiroth are all substantially stronger. One thing we're forgetting about the building-busting feat is that Xemnas was the one casually hurling those buildings around with TK.
> 
> ...


Yet its not only sora,its the whole KHverse that ichigo is aginst here at the same time.


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)




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## Killerqueen (Jul 17, 2011)

Can Luxord turn ichigo into a card or dice?


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## NeoKurama (Jul 17, 2011)

Killerqueen said:


> Can Luxord turn ichigo into a card or dice?



Sounds easier said then done.


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## Killerqueen (Jul 17, 2011)

NeoKurama said:


> Sounds easier said then done.


can Zexion put ichigo into a illusion


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## Majinvergil (Jul 17, 2011)

Killerqueen said:


> Can Luxord turn ichigo into a card or dice?


He could because ichigo hasn't shown resistence towards it


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## NeoKurama (Jul 17, 2011)

Killerqueen said:


> can Zexion put ichigo into a illusion



Like I said, "Sounds easier said than done".

They probably could, cause Ichigo has showed no resistance to neither.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Jul 17, 2011)

It's retarded to say Ichigo is no more than mach 5 because of lack of feats. Logical speed scaling dictates he is at least Mach 17+, likely in the 20s.


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)

Based on what?


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## NeoKurama (Jul 17, 2011)

Geralt of Rivia said:


> It's retarded to say Ichigo is no more than mach 5 because of lack of feats. Logical speed scaling dictates he is at least * Mach 17+, likely in the 20s.*



No. Logical powerscaling puts him between mach 10-15


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## LazyWaka (Jul 17, 2011)

If by logical you mean "i'm a pull a random number I like out of my ass," then yes, it is logical.


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## Googleplex (Jul 17, 2011)

I think characters like Sora, Riku, Xemnas/Xehanort/Ansem SoD etc would prevent Ichigo from winning. 
Though he can solo the rest of them.


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## ChaosTheory123 (Jul 17, 2011)

HachibiWaka said:


> If by logical you mean "i'm a pull a random number I like out of my ass," then yes, it is logical.



mach 10-15 isn't a reasonable assumption based on a VERY early speed feat being mach 4.7?

I can't say I advocate the highest speed calc capping a verses speed, especially when the feat was performed by a character in a much lower tier.

Then again, I don't really care for bleach (despite how horrifyingly frequently I seem to post in threads pertaining to it...)

Go about this shit however you wish.


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## Toriko (Jul 17, 2011)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> mach 10-15 isn't a reasonable assumption based on a VERY early speed feat being mach 4.7?
> 
> I can't say I advocate the highest speed calc capping a verses speed, especially when the feat was performed by a character in a much lower tier.
> 
> ...



Ehh, the newer chapters are actually alright, In fact I really didn't have much of a problem with the series before the introduction of vizards/arrancar


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## Baroxio (Jul 17, 2011)

zenieth said:


> What exactly is this supposed to prove? Other than KH2 being a serious QTE whore.


Someone asked for gameplay feats, so there are most of them.

And to the person who asked if Luxord could turn Ichigo into a card or Dice, yes, yes he could. He even does it to Sora in the video I showed.

The reason Sora is able to turn back to normal (and retain his ability to move while transformed) is because of his magical drive clothes, given to him by the three faries that battled Maleficent. Ichigo's clothes, while connected to his Bankai in some way, are not actually magic.

As for Zexion, yeah, he could also trap Ichigo in his book. But if Ichigo finds his book version (easier said than done if you've actually played the game, as Zexion actually switches books randomly) then he could escape like Sora and Company.

Xigbar too could be more dangerous than what he showed. His ability to change the space in the room you fight him in (he doesn't actually teleport between different rooms, they are all the same room with altered space in them) could be deadly if used on a non-magical person. But that is unquantified and baseless wank, so such a scenario should never be used. 

But yeah, the top tiers in the Organization (all of who can summon hordes of both Heartless AND Nobodies under thier command, warp through space with the Corridors of Darkness, survive multiple hits from Sora  etc.) should be able to handle Dangai Ichigo. Anybody have any stats for the Organization? Specifically, Xigbar's speed?

Also, what does QTE stand for?


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)

None of the organization top tier outside of Luxord and Zexion can deal with Ichigo in a straight up fight.

Some might be smart enough to use DtD to BFR him, but outside of that he could 1 shot every last one of them.


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## Light (Jul 17, 2011)

zenieth said:


> None of the organization top tier outside of Luxord and Zexion can deal with Ichigo in a straight up fight.
> 
> Some might be smart enough to use DtD to BFR him, but outside of that he could 1 shot every last one of them.



I doubt he can beat Xemnas Roxas or Xion either.


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)

And what do they have? other than DtD that says they don't get the business?

Only Sora has Genie.


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## Narcissus (Jul 17, 2011)

The answer is no. Too many characters, and more than enough broken abilities to deal with Ichigo. He cannot win.


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## LazyWaka (Jul 17, 2011)

ChaosTheory123 said:


> mach 10-15 isn't a reasonable assumption based on a VERY early speed feat being mach 4.7?



Well, I was referring more to the mach 17-20+ claim. But honestly just tagging a random speed to someone just because "they are much faster" is as bad as calc stacking, actually, its worse. Calc stacking atleast has something to go off of while "powerscaling speeds" is based almost purely on opinion.


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## Banhammer (Jul 17, 2011)

zenieth said:


> And what do they have? other than DtD that says they don't get the business?
> 
> Only Sora has Genie.



Namine can just leave him a vegetable


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## zenieth (Jul 17, 2011)

Namine isn't organization


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## Xaosin (Jul 18, 2011)

This thread is still going?

I would have thought Ichigo would lose, he's to over-whelmed here.

Besides, there's nothing to stop Luxord from transmuting him while he's desperately trying to fend off Xemnas's Ethereal Blades spam.

Has anyone ever calc'd how fast Riku and Sora would have to be to block all those?



zenieth said:


> Namine isn't organization



She's part of KHs verse though isn't she? 

Also, wasn't there a key-blade in the first game that can 'separate ones evil from oneself' or some bluhbage like that?


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## Dogescartes (Jul 18, 2011)

He is a clear, top tier in KH verse. Ichigo sodomizes, but loses to Sora (genie), Luxord, Zexion due to hax.

The rest gets stomped, yes even Xemnas.


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## Light (Jul 18, 2011)

Is Sora hypersonic+?


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> Is Sora hypersonic+?



No, mach 3.7. Brohan calced him.


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## Dogescartes (Jul 18, 2011)

ShineMonkey said:


> Is Sora hypersonic+?



Probably, he evaded lasers ( i don`t know if they are considered real lasers).

People claimed that he was FTL, before.


He is really fast, at least Hypersonic+ by game mechanics.


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## Light (Jul 18, 2011)

Two different answers. Anyway is Dangai Ichigo hypersonic+? And if Sora is hypersonic all the characters that were able to keep up with him, does that make him hypersonic?


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## zenieth (Jul 18, 2011)

Oh wow, I thought Sora was mach 10.

At mach 3.7 Ichigo actually does have the speed advantage.

So it really is just overwhelming odds that wreck his shit.


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## Sol_Blackguy (Jul 18, 2011)

wow Mach 3? 

What about the laser dome feat?


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## zenieth (Jul 18, 2011)

Laser's don't explode, meaning it's not quantifiable.


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## Light (Jul 18, 2011)

Huh if Sora is that slow then I guess Ichigo can solo 1v1.


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

BTW, what laser dome feat you speak of?


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## Sol_Blackguy (Jul 18, 2011)

zenieth said:


> Laser's don't explode, meaning it's not quantifiable.



i see lol.

so much for "lolblitz"


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

Even so, It still will be difficult, I suppose.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 18, 2011)

NeoKurama said:


> BTW, what laser dome feat you speak of?



[YOUTUBE]7-pn9U2ZGUY[/YOUTUBE]
6:17 onwards


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

I see.


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## Light (Jul 18, 2011)

Well even if Strawberry's faster he can't do this all at once. 1v1 I don't know.


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

I forgot some on KH, but I believe he can take on anyone 1v1.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 18, 2011)

NeoKurama said:


> I see.



About those lasers
There are no visible explosions at first with those lasers.
That would suggest something besides the lasers are exploding if you ask me.
It could be causing something to explode giving it the appearance of it exploding as it disperses a build up of energy caused by the lasers?
Another guy that uses something similar looking at 4:15 onwards, but they shatter instead of dispersing or possibly exploding.
Though if this was though of before you can just go ahead and copy paste it here.


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## zenieth (Jul 18, 2011)

Either way they don't have the characteristics of lasers.


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## NeoKurama (Jul 18, 2011)

So they can't be calced.


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## Adam sucks (May 24, 2013)

He can't flash step in the Kingdom Hearts universe because of the lack of spiritual pressure or energy and most of his moves would be weaker and also Xemnas is god's evil twin one flick of wrist ... dead


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