# Kisame vs Killer B...



## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 10, 2013)

No restriction...

Kisame with all his power...

Killer B with all of his too...

Where sasuke and B fought in the cloud country...

Go!!!


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## richard lewis (Jun 10, 2013)

Killer B wins.... if bee fully transforms it will be much harder for kisame to steal his chakra, also even with samehada I don't see how kisame could survive a relentless TBB


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 11, 2013)

richard lewis said:


> Killer B wins.... if bee fully transforms it will be much harder for kisame to steal his chakra, also even with samehada I don't see how kisame could survive a relentless TBB



KB WINZ??? Killer B was utterly owned by kisame who was not even trying to kill him, only wear him down while aslo fighting the enka master and his boss summon too...

The FACT that Samehada absorbed so much of Killer B's HUman bijuumode transformation proves that it could absorb a bijuudama enough to survive it and take away the full hachibi for with a Single swing of samehada...

Apparently this was forgotten which is  ALL of hachibi's power condensed into HUMAN bijuu mode... and Saemahda defeated it, with kisame getting some damage from the physical attack, not the power though...



PROOF^^ that Killer B cannot beat kisame seeing as how he already used ALL of his power and still could only give minor wounds to kisame which was instantly healed by samehada though...
as shown hereVVV
And that Kisame with samehada is indestructible, unable to die and has unlimted power/stamina... he is like an edo...



CONCLUSION:
Killer B stands no Chance what so ever... Not sure how he could be so underestimated when he already EASILY beat Killer B without even trying to kill him either lol...
: Killer B's power is used against him... and will run out while kisame will not run out of power...
: Killer B can be killed while kisame with samehada cannot...
: Killer B only relies on power and strength to overwhelm his enemy, but is exactly what kisame uses against the enemy only making KB unable to beat kisame...

And nothing short of noon tiger 7th gate direct hit was enough to even injure Kisame without samehada... But is still one of those characters that is so strong, he had to kill himself...

So how Killer B could ever beat kisame or base hashirama could beat Kisame so easily  and not be as likely to lsoe as kisame, is beyond me...


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## ueharakk (Jun 11, 2013)

It was heavily implied that Bee could have ended the fight any time he wanted to if he used his full bijuu transformation.

Lack of knowledge about Kisame's absorption abilities attributed to 50% of Kisame's win.  

Bee also had to protect Ponta and that samurai guy, another factor that isn't present in this thread.

Manga knowledge, unless Kisame doesn't instantly fuse with samehada, he's taking a V2 lariat, and bee gets rid of the sword before Kisame can heal himself.
If he does fuse with samehada and puts up waterdome, Bee whirlwinds and rapidfire bijuudamas him.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 11, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> ]It was heavily implied that Bee could have ended the fight any time he wanted to if he used his full bijuu transformation.



In what Manga??? Such a thing was never implied nor would it even be possible for a full hachibi mode to be anymore effective then his full power in Human mode...

Did you not see the panels I posted that showed the FULL power of the hachibi being completely ineffective due to samehada's chakra absorbing ability... Only the physical lariat hurt kisame which was easily healed by samehada too...

So how could KB beat someone who uses his own power against him and unable to die r run out of chakra to spam endless ocean creation and water prisons the size of multiple mountains...




> Lack of knowledge about Kisame's absorption abilities attributed to 50% of Kisame's win.



And? Killer B is not intelligent and analytical... Who cares HOW, the fact is, Kisame won and easily without even trying to kill KB too...



> Bee also had to protect Ponta and that samurai guy, another factor that isn't present in this thread.



that was only in the water prison, but the whole rest of the fight, ponta and enka master was helping Kiler B fight kisame or did you just forget that part and only remember the one instance they became a liability...

Remember this..._the smoke_
Including ponta attacking kisame... assisting Killer B...




> Manga knowledge, unless Kisame doesn't instantly fuse with samehada, he's taking a V2 lariat, and bee gets rid of the sword before Kisame can heal himself.
> If he does fuse with samehada and puts up waterdome, Bee whirlwinds and rapidfire bijuudamas him.



Lol, this is what is wrong with members on this site... They argue using preference of character+expectation of abilities that are unrealistic=fanning...

Not with valid argument using logic and reason coupled with manga evidence for support....

The FACT is, Once Killer B's full power of hachibi was proved ineffective, he was proven unable to beat Kisame as he is... and Kisame was not even trying either which makes the win even more of an achievement...

(Common Sense facts)
1). No whirlwind spins into hachibi full size mode will hurt Kisame who has brute strength and power on par with hashirama and beyond even half power BM naruto who easily was unphased by the whirlwind attack... So if naruto in half bijuumode is unphased by whilrwind hachibi attack then kisame will be even less effected then... 

2). If the full power of the hachibi was not enough on it's own to hurt kisame, but a lariat was needed as well then a bijuudama will not do much...

3). The FACT that kisame is invincible pretty much with samehada, and even if it somehow is taken away, it return on it's own because it has it's own free will...

So bijuudama, full power lariat, will not work which is Killer B's strongest attacks and since he does not use strategy... Killer B cannot win... It is obvious...


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## ueharakk (Jun 11, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> In what Manga??? Such a thing was never implied nor would it even be possible for a full hachibi mode to be anymore effective then his full power in Human mode...


Obviously full hachibi mode would be far more effective since overall damage output is bee's counter to kisame and full hachibi can fire bijuudamas which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V2 lariat.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Did you not see the panels I posted that showed the FULL power of the hachibi being completely ineffective due to samehada's chakra absorbing ability... Only the physical lariat hurt kisame which was easily healed by samehada too...


yeah V2 =/= full power of the hachibi



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> So how could KB beat someone who uses his own power against him and unable to die r run out of chakra to *spam endless ocean creation and water prisons the size of multiple mountains...*


by.... killing him before he is able to use the techniques that allow him to not die or run out of chakra....

And the bolded is flat out false.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> *And? Killer B is not intelligent and analytical...* Who cares HOW, the fact is, Kisame won and easily without even trying to kill KB too...


What is the bolded based on?  Because some guy raps in battle = he's not intelligent/analytical?  And the unbolded is concessionary, as the battledome is all about HOW people win battles, not the raw outcomes of a battle. 

Else you will end up with things like SM Naruto clone > Hachibi = Sandaime Raikage.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> that was only in the water prison, but the whole rest of the fight, ponta and enka master was helping Kiler B fight kisame or did you just forget that part and only remember the one instance they became a liability...


When were either of them helping bee in his fight?  Did any of their help make any difference? Because the whole reason Bee lost in the water prison was solely due to Ponta and the samurai.  that and no knowledge on Kisame's abilities.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Remember this..._the smoke_
> Including ponta attacking kisame... assisting Killer B...


And what exactly did any of that do?  Did it aid killer bee at all in his fight?  Did Bee not already know that his chakras were being absorbed?





Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Lol, this is what is wrong with members on this site... They argue using preference of character+expectation of abilities that are unrealistic=fanning...
> 
> Not with valid argument using logic and reason coupled with manga evidence for support....


Anyone can make this claim about any argument or any poster.  However, how valid are your claims?  What evidence or reasoning do you bring to the table that I am doing such a thing?



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> The FACT is, Once Killer B's full power of hachibi was proved ineffective, he was proven unable to beat Kisame as he is... and Kisame was not even trying either which makes the win even more of an achievement...


This is concessionary dishonesty as bee neither used the full power of the hachibi nor was proven unable to beat kisame as he is.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> (Common Sense facts)
> 1). No whirlwind spins into hachibi full size mode will hurt Kisame who has brute strength and power on par with hashirama and beyond even half power BM naruto who easily was unphased by the whirlwind attack... So if naruto in half bijuumode is unphased by whilrwind hachibi attack then kisame will be even less effected then...


When in the world did kisame get feats of having physical power beyond KCM Naruto?  Naruto wasn't even in the whirlwind, he was with bee, and one tailed han who has strength feats that crap all over kisame's own was knocked down and incapacitated.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> 2). If the full power of the hachibi was not enough on it's own to hurt kisame, but a lariat was needed as well then a bijuudama will not do much...


Full power of hachibi was never used, and a bijuudama >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lariat.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> 3). The FACT that kisame is invincible pretty much with samehada, and even if it somehow is taken away, it return on it's own because it has it's own free will...


Kisame is in no way invincible with samehada, and if samehada is thrown far away, he will take a long time to get back to kisame as shown when kisame kicked the sword when it turned against him.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> So bijuudama, full power lariat, will not work which is Killer B's strongest attacks and since he does not use strategy... Killer B cannot win... It is obvious...


Yeah, all of this is completely anti-canonical.


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## DaVizWiz (Jun 11, 2013)

Lol I wonder who gets the Samehada.

In any case, a single TBB wipes Kisame off the earth. Samehada wouldn't have a chance at absorbing that much chakra before the momentum sent Kisame's body flying, then boom. Also, a laserdama isn't going to be absorbed. 

Ink Clones and tail swipes can separate Samehada while Bee's sword style finishes Kisame quite convincingly.

Whirlwind also solos.

I actually don't see what Kisame would do if Gyuki simply attempted to punch him. Samehada clearly won't be absorbing flesh, chakra or not, and Kisame's body certainly isn't durable enough to survive that level of power when he can't even stop Bee's normal blade from drawing blood. The fact the guy can stretch his body to catch a 3-tailed turtle is enough of an indication that Kisame would simply get overpowered.


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## richard lewis (Jun 11, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> KB WINZ??? Killer B was utterly owned by kisame who was not even trying to kill him, only wear him down while aslo fighting the enka master and his boss summon too...
> 
> The FACT that Samehada absorbed so much of Killer B's HUman bijuumode transformation proves that it could absorb a bijuudama enough to survive it and take away the full hachibi for with a Single swing of samehada...
> 
> ...



_Tsubaki no Mai _

read the top of the page.... the habichi say's bee should fully transform and bee say's it's out of the question because it would destroy the landscape and potentially harm sanbu. so like I said bee was holding back, and kisame can't survive a rapid fire of bujudama.


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## Joker J (Jun 12, 2013)

If this fight were to happen again with Kisame abilities he will be able to beat Bee in V2 like he did before and will be able to take out his beast mode.

In their fight Kisame most fighting ways wasn't aimed to kill but only to absorb KB's chakra or act defensively instead of offensively , in the manga he had more than one time to attack KB physically to harm him.

#1 Instead of dodging KB thrown sword and blocking his raiton sword strike, he was able to inflict potential fatal damage to KB by slashing Samehada at him instead of blocking/absorbing the raiton from KB lunge attack that he was already safe from.

#2 Kisame having a much larger sword allowed Bee to get close to him while Bee was blitzing to absorb more chakra from him, not to harm. Kisame and Samehada easily reacted to KB thrust attack and gave to much time for KB to realize his situation and and back away safely.

Kisame reacting to KB speed from a distance again with his large sword he was able to thrust Samehada at Be while Bee commited to his thrust, which sword would have reached who first? Instead of Kisame inflicting dmg to Bee, Samehada simply dodges the attack right under Bee while Kisame goes for a chakra absorbing slash.

 Again instead of using his strength and slashing at Bee he simply blocks/absorbs with Samehada.  

In a fight where Kisame is actually able to go for kill strikes will make it a lil bit tuffer for base/V1 Bee.

Bee transforming into V2 or full beast mode will make Kisame bust out the dome and the results will still be the same like when V2 was in the dome.

Wth Bee large size and with the quickness of Kisame he will easily be able to find any spot on Bee to make physical contact to absorb and then the match will be over in a couple of more moments.

Most say Bee whirlwind will disrupt the dome, but that won't happen, it will only create a twirling water spin or tornado inside the dome instead of disrupting it as Kisame is still in control of it and the speed Bee spinning on land will b greatly reduced when attempting to spin underwater. Kisamehada body for shape *[1] [2]* allows he to perfectly swim through sting currents and flow swiftly with the motion of the water like other sea creatures, it won't stop him to ride the motion ad get close enough to be just to absorb his chakra.

Also Daikodan > Bee multiple bijudamas .

Kisame still wins this due to his abilities to handle such large opponents with large chakra and large chakra attacks.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 12, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> ]Obviously full hachibi mode would be far more effective since overall damage output is bee's counter to kisame and full hachibi can fire bijuudamas which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V2 lariat.



Ho is that a logical conclusion when bijudama is just an enemy ball which can just be absorbed while the lariat is a physical attack augmented by the energy to increase it's power so the physical attack itself cannot be stopped...

You make no sense to think a bijuudama can do anything to kisame who can use samehada to absorb the whole thing... And in kisamehada mode, he can absorb chakra by just touching it meaning he can stand still and absrob the power!

What about "using super power" against kisame will not be effective does not compute for you guys??? saemhada can just absorb it!



> yeah V2 =/= full power of the hachibi



No, not full power, 7 tails=almost full powers... And was able to absorb the form away in an instant back to the previous form so it could easily take all the chakra with a bijuudama that can be absorbed without being interrupted by a physical attack lariat...




> by.... killing him before he is able to use the techniques that allow him to not die or run out of chakra....
> 
> And the bolded is flat out false.



How? Killer B has no way to take away samehada and even if he does, samehada comes back on it's own remember... This scenario is not possible!!1

And the water prison is the size of about 4 mountains, look at it above and how only 1/4 of the prison covers as much area as that mountain it is right beside...... thus it is about 4 mountain in size...



> What is the bolded based on?  Because some guy raps in battle = he's not intelligent/analytical?  And the unbolded is concessionary, as the battledome is all about HOW people win battles, not the raw outcomes of a battle.



Since when has Killer B analyzed something intelligently or came up with a strategy in combat... The hachibi has to do it for him as shown here...

]

And how does intelligence and analytical abilities not apply to WINNING BATTLES when they are just as important if not mroe then FEATS of jutsu themselves...



> When were either of them helping bee in his fight?  Did any of their help make any difference? Because the whole reason Bee lost in the water prison was solely due to Ponta and the samurai.  that and no knowledge on Kisame's abilities.



LMAO, you are blaming those two who were helping fight kisame before as being why kisame won in the water prison, not because Killer B was too weak and lacked the intelligence to use effective counter attacks...

And just because kisame was too much for them as kisame was for killer B does not change the fact they were helping...



> And what exactly did any of that do?  Did it aid killer bee at all in his fight?  Did Bee not already know that his chakras were being absorbed?



Bee is an idiot and kept using more power... they tried to help and asssited him which is all that matters...



> Anyone can make this claim about any argument or any poster.  However, how valid are your claims?  What evidence or reasoning do you bring to the table that I am doing such a thing?



How about the fact you argue that KB transforming into full hachibi mode would even make a difference when all it would do is let KB use the same tactics of firing more energy to be absorbed and only strengthening Kisame while Weakening him...
Yet somehow this could defeat Kisame... Makes no sense!!! Brute force with chakra cannot defeat kisame, this is canon!!!



> This is concessionary dishonesty as bee neither used the full power of the hachibi nor was proven unable to beat kisame as he is.



ANd that is pure fanning logic! Killer B gave it everything he had up to 7 tails and only a PHYSICAL ATTACKED worked, not chakra attack... and even that was easily healed by samehada so not even  physical attacks can hurt him!!! Do you see why Killer B could not win and cannot win since all he does is rely on power and brute force...

Lol, killer b was so easily defeated without even trying to kill him that it is ridiculous for anyone to think that simply gaining another tail would make a difference...



> When in the world did kisame get feats of having physical power beyond KCM Naruto?  Naruto wasn't even in the whirlwind, he was with bee, and one tailed han who has strength feats that crap all over kisame's own was knocked down and incapacitated.



naruto was on top of hachibi I made mistake... Still, fact is, some physical attack like that will not beat kisame much less hurt him as Long as he has samehada and huge brute strength... He is known as the tailed beast without tails for a reason...

F





> ull power of hachibi was never used, and a bijuudama >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lariat


.

LAMO, this is what I mean!!! You completely ignore the fact that an energy attack will just be absorbed while only a physical attack can get through which is why a 7tail lariat>bijuudama...



> Kisame is in no way invincible with samehada, and if samehada is thrown far away, he will take a long time to get back to kisame as shown when kisame kicked the sword when it turned against him.



That was not kisame, it was his zetsu clone, kisame was already inside samehada remember... Your example is invalid...
Samehada was taken by Le and Gai and it broke free and went back to kisame on it's own and will always come back to him which is why kisame in pretty much invincible...



> Yeah, all of this is completely anti-canonical.



Really... Because last I checked your whole argument was based on samehada somehow not doing what it is known for doing which is absorbing chakra easily... and that kisame cannot easily be healed by any physical attack the hachibi can throw at him in full hachibi mode...

So tell me how this is completely anti-canonical again...

All that matters... Full hachibi mode will not make a difference when 7tail lariat was easily healed and bijuudama can easily be absorbed like it is nothing...


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 12, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Lol I wonder who gets the Samehada.
> 
> In any case, a single TBB wipes Kisame off the earth. Samehada wouldn't have a chance at absorbing that much chakra before the momentum sent Kisame's body flying, then boom. Also, a laserdama isn't going to be absorbed.
> 
> ...



1). Samehada will not betray kisame, and never did... it was already with kisame while it was with bee too, remember... only after kisame was dead did the sword actually no longer with kisame... so that will not happen... read the manga... sword never left kisame, he left it...

2). what is a TBB? And lazerdama, since when can hachibi use a lazer and sicne when is it not made of chakra for samehada to easily absrob if he does actually have it???
Funny how all of a sudden, samehada will not do what it does just because so NF KB fans say so...
sameaha was able to absrob away V2 back to V1 tailed human mode in an INSTANT, not even able to continuously able to absorb because 7tail lariat interfered and proved only physical attacks can even effect kisame, but samehada will just heal them easily... So while they will land, they will not make a difference though!

3). Ink clones are weak sauce and could not even hold down Jinks in their own human tailed modes... meanwhile kisame is a no tails bijuu himself at base so what good will those ink clones do to him when you consider what the other bijuu strength level shinobi did to the seals... Yea, nothing!!!
And tail swipes will only push kisame back if not get the hachibi's tail cut off because samehada is a SWORD after all and kisame had super human strength like tsunade and raikage...

4). How does a whirlwind solo when it only knocked down the other JINKS who were not even in tailed mode... and kisame is as strong as tailed mode at bade... so just NO!!! and even if somehow it did hurt kisame, samehada easily heals the damage... attack made pointless by instant regeneration...

5). What good would a hachibi punch do, really? Knock kisame back if not get his arm cut off in the process... Due to samehada, all physical damage can instantly be regenerated so why even bother to mention something that is proven ineffective due to instant regeneration!!!

Again, another member who ignores the FACT that samehada ABSORBS chakra EASILY!!!! A bijuudama can easily be absrobed if V2  which is 7tails of power was absorbed down to V1 in an INSTANT of contact with the hachibi's chakra during the lariat of Killer B's...

And the FACT that Samehada can instantly regenerate any physical damage Kisame endures and even stays with kisame by it's own will so no separating the two without taking samehada away with a time space jutsu to take away instant regeneration ability...
SImply knocking samehada out of Kisame's hand will do nothing because it will just return on it's own and heal kisame's wounds...

Killer B cannot Win!!! His power only strengthens kisame and his has limited physicall attacks that can all be instantly healed leaving KB Boned...



richard lewis said:


> 12
> 
> read the top of the page.... the habichi say's bee should fully transform and bee say's it's out of the question because it would destroy the landscape and potentially harm sanbu. so like I said bee was holding back, and kisame can't survive a rapid fire of bujudama.



Lol, so killer B having his V2 absorbed in an instant of contact with samehada back to V1 means nothing... All the sudden, even through 7 tails was completely useless against kisame, all the sudden 8 tails will be... and greater size, not condensed into human form...

HOW??? Again, if you and the others have forgotten or are just ignoring.. samehada can absrob any amount of bijuudama the Hahcibi can fire at it while healing any damage the hachibi can give kisame too meaning that KB cannot beat Kisame, only make him even stronger while losing his own power..

Why is this being Ignored??? Chakra attacks are ueslles, even in 8tails mode and all physical damage can be healed by samehada too... Not to mention samehada cannot be taken away from ksiame very long since it will attack the enemy who grabs it and return on it;s own and heal any damage kisame has...

Look here, 7tails KB knocks samehada out of ksiame's hand while giving him some body damage and look what happens...
SAMEHADA COMES BACK AND HEALS THE WOUNDS!!



Shown here too when it was TAKEN by force... Lee takes ti away clearly, the neji knocks kisame back, but while in mid air, samehada floats over to kisame on it's own which proves taking it away without a time space jutsu to put it too far away for it to return, will not be effective...



So.
1). No amount of chakra will not be absorbed by samehada so Bijuudama and bijuumodes will not be effective against kisame...
2). Only physical attacks can even lnad on kisame, but due to samehada, they are ineffective too becuase ti will instantly regenerate any damage a phsycial attack causes kisame...
3). Because not even forceably taking away samehada will stop samehada and kisame from reuniting due to samehada having a will and movements of it;s won means that such a tactic will not work and samehada will still be able to heal kisame...

So basically, KB has no way to win...


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 12, 2013)

Scenario:
Assuming that both have manga knowledge of each other, and start off at roughly the same distance they did in their canon fight, I'd say that the scenario treats them both equally. Though, I'm of the opinion that Bee has a slight advantage in this regard, as Kisame doesn't know about the full capability of the Hachibi, and knowledge on Kisame (which Killer Bee has a lot of) is basically a lot more valuable due to the fact that Killer Bee has a very specialized set of skills while Kisame is more versatile and tricky.

If the location is in the same place too, I'd say Killer Bee has the edge. For someone as agile as Bee, trees and hiding spaces would be perfect. Though given that Kisame could probably flood it all away as well as sense with Samehada, I'm not sure how much that would do.​
Ninjutsu:
It's fairly obvious who has the upper hand here. Killer Bee is almost completely restricted to fighting up close, so naturally he has the disadvantage. Furthermore, even if he did have a huge repertoire of techniques, Kisame's skill set is tailoured as such that it would be completely useless against him.

Furthermore, Kisame's ninjutsu also works quite well against someone like Bee. The latter's fighting style is basically focused around moving close to the opponent and attempting to overwhelm them with speed, then land a decisive blow to kill in one shot. A lot of Kisame's suiton techniques, such as suiton: bakusui shōha and suiton: dai bakusui shōha are basically huge momentum stoppers , . And while Kisame's offensive suiton probably wouldn't do much, if any, damage to Killer Bee, they are still very good as an anti-blitz. Killer Bee, for example, would be completely stopped by suiton: senshokukō.

And given the scale of his techniques, it's also easy to get caught up in them, which can be lethal here. Kisame underwater is a huge force to be reckoned with, as once you get in, it's very difficult to get out unless you have raw power like Gai. Though, bijū hachimaki is so ridiculously huge and powerful, that I'm sure it could blow apart suirō sameodori no jutsu and hurt Kisame at the same time. Given how willing Killer Bee is to go into bijū mode too, I don't think being apprehensive would be an issue. The only reason he avoided it against Kisame the first time was to avoid attracting attention. He'll have no such issue here.​
Taijutsu:
Killer Bee is clearly the superior swordsman here. He completely outclassed Sasuke, who is no slouch himself 3, 4, 5 and took on the combined forces of Taka quite casually 6, 7. However, a lot of his killing power comes from his raiton enhanced blades, which...

Kisame's style neutralizes. Samehada almost renders Killer Bee's fighting style completely obsolete, and is quite dangerous because Samehada can move on it's own, grows bigger with each shave, and can shave off huge chunks of chakra as well. However, the main reason why Killer Bee lost so much chakra last time was because he spent a large amount of time simply experimenting and seeing what it could do, then used a lot up with a version two rari atto, and then lost a lot with the water dome chapter. With knowledge, Killer Bee won't bother spending chakra 'testing waters' and will go in for the kill immediately.

Optimal choice here would be version two again. It can nearly one shot Kisame due to it's speed and strength, and can't just be absorbed instantly because of how condensed the chakra is. Furthermore, with knowledge, he'll just enter it straight again after hitting Kisame to land a killing blow, instead of giving him the time to heal.​
Scenario:
Killer Bee knows he can't fight Kisame like he would any other foe, so he enters version two immediately, while Kisame will equally attempt to bust out the big guns from the get-go. I see suiton: bakusui shōha being used, to grant Kisame access to suitons, while Killer Bee enters version two, and from there, one of two things can happen.

Either Kisame gets it off first, and traps Killer Bee into the waterdome, or Killer Bee enters version two first, manages to close the distance before the flood manages to get much momentum, and deal out some lethal damage to Kisame - which he can't heal because Samehada won't have accumulated enough chakra yet. Kisame gets stronger as the fight goes on, so at the start, he's comparatively weaker to what he could be like towards the end when his opponent is worn out from chakra expenditure, while he's fresh and has a sword filled with chakra.

In the first case, I could see Kisame maybe shredding Killer Bee up a bit, before he goes into full Hachibi mode and nukes Kisame with bijū hachimaki, thus blowing up the sphere. Then, a finishing move would be made with bijū dama would be made. In regards to bijū dama against suiton: daikōdan no jutsu, I'm not sure which would win, since the latter has no feats, and the former is meant to be a completely different class of ninjutsu. However, regardless of that, I don't think daikōdan would come into play as it requires a huge amount of pre-existing water, and Killer Bee in full Hachibi mode would make sure to 'remove' it. In any case, durable as Kisame might be, I don't think he's strong enough to take both a bijū dama _and_ bijū hachimaki, especially now that we know he can rapid-fire the former. 

So, either way, Killer Bee should win. He's on a different level now, with those feats, especially thanks to bijū hachimaki, which gives him a way to counter Kisame's bigger jutsu and is also immune to Samehada.​


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## richard lewis (Jun 12, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> 1). Samehada will not betray kisame, and never did... it was already with kisame while it was with bee too, remember... only after kisame was dead did the sword actually no longer with kisame... so that will not happen... read the manga... sword never left kisame, he left it...
> 
> 2). what is a TBB? And lazerdama, since when can hachibi use a lazer and sicne when is it not made of chakra for samehada to easily absrob if he does actually have it???
> Funny how all of a sudden, samehada will not do what it does just because so NF KB fans say so...
> ...



1. since when can samehada absorb flesh? if bee transforms his body is made of flesh and body tissue as opposed to using chakra cloak which is much easier for kisame to absorb.

2. explosion caused by Hashirama deflecting it's attack      When fully transformed bee's physical attacks are on a larger scale than even kisame's water some. Bee can simply over power anything kisame throws at him.

3. Kisame can't keep healing himself forever, eventually samaehada is gunna run out of chakra to heal him with. Also there is probably a limit to how much damage kisame can take b4 samehada can no longer heal him, if bee was to land a punch on kisame his whole body would literally be crushed samehada might not be able to heal him from that.

4. Finally I'd imagine there is a limit to how much chakra samehada can absorb, for instance I doubt it could absorb the juibi laser. So it may or may not be able to absorb 4-5 BD's at once. and even if it could like I said above bee's physical abilities alone should suffice for killing kisame.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 12, 2013)

Atlantic said:


> Scenario:
> Assuming that both have manga knowledge of each other, and start off at roughly the same distance they did in their canon fight, I'd say that the scenario treats them both equally. Though, I'm of the opinion that Bee has a slight advantage in this regard, as Kisame doesn't know about the full capability of the Hachibi, and knowledge on Kisame (which Killer Bee has a lot of) is basically a lot more valuable due to the fact that Killer Bee has a very specialized set of skills while Kisame is more versatile and tricky.​




How does KB have the advantage here?? Kisame has instant regeneration, the ability to nullify all taibeast modes and absorb any chakra attack making them useless while also able to force KB to fight on an ocean, in the ocean or in a 4 mountain sized water prison...

Kisame has every advantage here... Killer B's entire jutsu set is sword attacks which were already proven useless, raiton sword, 1... WHich was made useless and even dodged 2 raiton tools twice with his reflexes... Ink clones that could not hold Jinks in tailed form... and then just powerful attacks using the hachibi's chakra... Nothing else..

All of which can be countered by Kisame...



> If the location is in the same place too, I'd say Killer Bee has the edge. For someone as agile as Bee, trees and hiding spaces would be perfect. Though given that Kisame could probably flood it all away as well as sense with Samehada, I'm not sure how much that would do.



Kisame could easily spit up an ocean of water at any time... the rason Kisame did not do it before is becuase his goal was to drain the hachibi's chakra then switch with a zetsu clone and infiltrate the cloud when killer b takes samehada becuase it likes the chakra so much thus KB...

Remember, Kisame easily defeated KillB at base and up to 7tails without even trying to kill him too... SO imagine what good 1 more tails would do for Kisame who is actually trying to kill him and not holding back to drain chakra and cause samehada to fall in love with it to go with KB for cloud infiltration...



> Ninjutsu:
> It's fairly obvious who has the upper hand here. Killer Bee is almost completely restricted to fighting up close, so naturally he has the disadvantage. Furthermore, even if he did have a huge repertoire of techniques, Kisame's skill set is tailoured as such that it would be completely useless against him.
> 
> Furthermore, Kisame's ninjutsu also works quite well against someone like Bee. The latter's fighting style is basically focused around moving close to the opponent and attempting to overwhelm them with speed, then land a decisive blow to kill in one shot. A lot of Kisame's suiton techniques, such as suiton: bakusui shōha and suiton: dai bakusui shōha are basically huge momentum stoppers , . And while Kisame's offensive suiton probably wouldn't do much, if any, damage to Killer Bee, they are still very good as an anti-blitz. Killer Bee, for example, would be completely stopped by suiton: senshokukō.​




Fighting on an ocean and inside it will completely nullify speed advantage of KB in tailed beast V2 form... while completely immobilizing hachibi full form as he tries to stay a float on the ocean of water...
Everything else I agree wtih except you belief that the suiton jutsu will not have much effect considering shooting the great shark missle that can absrob any ninjutsu and redirect it back at them along with the shark missle bigger then a bijuudama.....



> And given the scale of his techniques, it's also easy to get caught up in them, which can be lethal here. Kisame underwater is a huge force to be reckoned with, as once you get in, it's very difficult to get out unless you have raw power like Gai. Though, bijū hachimaki is so ridiculously huge and powerful, that I'm sure it could blow apart suirō sameodori no jutsu and hurt Kisame at the same time. Given how willing Killer Bee is to go into bijū mode too, I don't think being apprehensive would be an issue. The only reason he avoided it against Kisame the first time was to avoid attracting attention. He'll have no such issue here.



Going into full hachibi mode will not make much of a difference if ANY at all... 7tail KB in human bijuu mode was still not too much for Kisame to easily handle, healing the damage and stealiing the chakra in only an instant tof contact too...

And going full hachibi mode in the water prison will not help... the water prison is like 4 times bigger then the hachibi... It is comparable to 4 mountains together as I showed in a post above... And Kisame can control the water prsion so it moves with you so you cannot escape and drown... 

Meaning going full hachibi in water prison will not make much difference...
1). It is still 4 times the size of hachibi in full size...
2). can move with the hachibi to keep it trapped...
3). Kisame in kisamehada mode, fused with his sword can absrob chakra thorugh just touch menaing all he has to do is touch the hachibi and it loses enough power to revert to human bijuu mode, a previous low level state...

Kisamehada absorbs chakra by merely touching the enemy... and look how much he took with a single touch too...



Thus, full hachibi mode will not help much in the water prison...

[





> COLOR="Navy"]Taijutsu:[/COLOR]
> Killer Bee is clearly the superior swordsman here. He completely outclassed Sasuke, who is no slouch himself 3, 4, 5 and took on the combined forces of Taka quite casually 6, 7. However, a lot of his killing power comes from his raiton enhanced blades, which...
> 
> Kisame's style neutralizes. Samehada almost renders Killer Bee's fighting style completely obsolete, and is quite dangerous because Samehada can move on it's own, grows bigger with each shave, and can shave off huge chunks of chakra as well. However, the main reason why Killer Bee lost so much chakra last time was because he spent a large amount of time simply experimenting and seeing what it could do, then used a lot up with a version two rari atto, and then lost a lot with the water dome chapter. With knowledge, Killer Bee won't bother spending chakra 'testing waters' and will go in for the kill immediately.​




How will this make a difference??? Chakra attacks is all KB has to use against Kisame other then his sword attacks which was already proven ineffective...
Not to mention KB is not known for analysing and intelligently attacking the enemy... Only for rapping and directly attacking using his over whelming power which smaehada will just ake away and make kisame power...

Look here, after all his chakra that has been stolen, KB's idea is to just try another lariat LAMO... Showing KB's lack of intelligence... which make a huge difference in combat...



Thus, all the knowledge in the world means nothing for Killer B due to the FACT he does not have the intelligence to use it effectively in combat as shown against kisame before...



> Optimal choice here would be version two again. It can nearly one shot Kisame due to it's speed and strength, and can't just be absorbed instantly because of how condensed the chakra is. Furthermore, with knowledge, he'll just enter it straight again after hitting Kisame to land a killing blow, instead of giving him the time to heal.



Why would Kisame just sit around for another v2 blitz especially since he no loger has to hold back to not kill KB while trying to take away as much chakra as possible for samehada to like KB's chakra to go with him...? 
Also.. Unlike KB, he intelligently uses knowledge to his advantage and could just use a water wave to slow down the blitz so samehada can easily absorb away V2  negating the attack itself... Or leave a water clone to draw Killer B's attack while kisame ambushes from behind...
Either way, Kisame will not just stand still and let V2 Killer B attack him ever again due to the results lol... and becuase he does not have to hold back and take chakra as part of his plan for infiltration to the cloud...

So not even V2 will work since kisame will not just stand still again and let V2 KB pot shot blitz him again... Not to mention, even if he was blitzed, samehada will heal his wounds instantly...



> Scenario:
> Killer Bee knows he can't fight Kisame like he would any other foe, so he enters version two immediately, while Kisame will equally attempt to bust out the big guns from the get-go. I see suiton: bakusui shōha being used, to grant Kisame access to suitons, while Killer Bee enters version two, and from there, one of two things can happen.
> 
> Either Kisame gets it off first, and traps Killer Bee into the waterdome, or Killer Bee enters version two first, manages to close the distance before the flood manages to get much momentum, and deal out some lethal damage to Kisame - which he can't heal because Samehada won't have accumulated enough chakra yet. Kisame gets stronger as the fight goes on, so at the start, he's comparatively weaker to what he could be like towards the end when his opponent is worn out from chakra expenditure, while he's fresh and has a sword filled with chakra.​




1). How can v2 move as fast on water to blitz Kisame???
2). samehada was never implied to need other chakra since it has it's own to begin with so it can still heal kisame instantly...having gained chakra from a foe was never implied to be what gives samehada it's ability to heal... It was only stated that it has the ability to instantly regenerate Kisame... Only gaining chakra from the enemy was only said to make it so kisame's chakra grows stronger itself.​


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 12, 2013)

....CONTINUED.


{QUOTE]In the first case, I could see Kisame maybe shredding Killer Bee up a bit, before he goes into full Hachibi mode and nukes Kisame with bijū hachimaki, thus blowing up the sphere. Then, a finishing move would be made with bijū dama would be made. In regards to bijū dama against suiton: daikōdan no jutsu, I'm not sure which would win, since the latter has no feats, and the former is meant to be a completely different class of ninjutsu. However, regardless of that, I don't think daikōdan would come into play as it requires a huge amount of pre-existing water, and Killer Bee in full Hachibi mode would make sure to 'remove' it. In any case, durable as Kisame might be, I don't think he's strong enough to take both a bijū dama _and_ bijū hachimaki, especially now that we know he can rapid-fire the former. [/QUOTE]

Do what???

1). You think a bijuudama would work when samehada cna just absorb it since it can absorb an entire V2 back to V1 in an instant of contact so imagine what samehada can d with continuous contact... nullify Bijuudama easily!!!

2). Daikodan /great sahrk missle is a huge shark missle that absorbs the chakra of the enemies attack and throws it back at them meaning a bijuudama or larait in V1 or v2 would be redirected back at Killer B easily and do allot of damage...

read here... 



3). Kisame does not need to be in a large body of water to use Daikodan since he can produce huge amounts of water with just his chakra alone... So your claim about needing a large body of preexisting water is false..

Daikodan can easily defeat A bijuudama or any ninjutsu that uses chakra becuase it steal the chara form the ninjutsu, causing the great shark missle to grow in size and become even stronger of an attack... Meaning the hachibi even in full form would be shit kicked by a super huge shark missle... Easily enough to win the fight for kisame or at least set up the win...



> So, either way, Killer Bee should win. He's on a different level now, with those feats, especially thanks to bijū hachimaki, which gives him a way to counter Kisame's bigger jutsu and is also immune to Samehada.[/INDENT]



Bijuu whilrwind will do nothing, but knock kisame back... How is kisame going to be defeated by something that did not even hurt the JINKs not in tails human V1 even... but in Human mode, no bijuu power being used...
It would only knock kisame back and any damage would be instantly healed by samehada... SO how is this even something to be considered when it was ineffective a gains JINKS in Human form and kisame is a no tailed Bijuu at base and cna instantly regenerate ANY physicla damage...

I do not understand how you can believe Killer B can win a fight where all of his attacks other then a tail spin whirlwind does anything at all due to samehada;s chakra absorbing ability coupled with it;s ability to instantly regenerate any damage kisame receives too...

So without any way to effectively use bijuu power or even be able to hurt kisame while he can easily overwhelm Killer B with water prison, ocean creation and 100 water sharks or even great water shark ninjutsu redirecting attack that can defeat a bijuudama easily too...

The only way Killer B could win would be to take away samehada permanently, but he has no way too... If it gets knock out of kisame's hand, it returns on it;s own as I showed in panels in a post above... So Killer B cannot win...

*Unlimited chakra absorbing ability*.....

*instant regeneration*

*and the ability for samehada to return to kisame on it;s own makes kisame way too much for KB to handle...*

Kisame Wins with mild difficulty...



EDIT:


richard lewis said:


> 1. since when can samehada absorb flesh? if bee transforms his body is made of flesh and body tissue as opposed to using chakra cloak which is much easier for kisame to absorb.



never said he could!! Where did you read that??? However, in full hachibi mode, his flesh is made of chakra so it is likely the full form can be taken away by absorbing the chakra directly cuasin g full hachibi to revert back to V2 mode or lower...



> 2. 7      When fully transformed bee's physical attacks are on a larger scale than even kisame's water some. Bee can simply over power anything kisame throws at him.



How??? How is hachibi going to overwhelm an OCEAN??? Or a giant water shark much bigger then him??? And last I checked, the hachibi even admitted to being at a disadvantage on the little bit of water he was on when fighting Sigestu, remember this...



So if the little bit of water suigetsu was using while the hachibi was on a small lake of water was a disadvantage for the hachibi... Then imagine what the ocean of water and super wave attacks will be of a disadvantage for the hachibi then...
Proof that kisame's watter attack and fight the hachibi on water is effective and puts the hachibi at a great disadvantage...



> 3. Kisame can't keep healing himself forever, eventually samaehada is gunna run out of chakra to heal him with. Also there is probably a limit to how much damage kisame can take b4 samehada can no longer heal him, if bee was to land a punch on kisame his whole body would literally be crushed samehada might not be able to heal him from that.



samehada will continue to heal kisame as long as he is damaged and since kisame has his own godly huge bijuu level chakra supply plus what he can easily take from Killer B and the hachibi... There is no way in hell that samehada will run out of chakra before KB and the hachibi...

So since that is impossible... it is not a scenario to even be mentioned IMO...

Also, the hachibi V2 7tail Human bijuu mode lariat is Killer B's strongest physical attack in bijuu form and it only busted upon some musles and tissue... Do not forget the durability of a shark skin shinobi body... and samehada can heal kisame as long as he is not completely blown to bits and has his head removed I would Imagine and with the bijuudama ineffective due to chakra absorbing coupled with ksiame's brute strength and skills as a ninja and swords means it is very unlikely that kisame will get beheaded himself,... Not a clone of him lol...

SO kisame has already healed easily the best physical attack Killer B has so that means allot for ksiame and is terrible for killer B...



> 4. Finally I'd imagine there is a limit to how much chakra samehada can absorb, for instance I doubt it could absorb the juibi laser. So it may or may not be able to absorb 4-5 BD's at once. and even if it could like I said above bee's physical abilities alone should suffice for killing kisame.



I doubt he cuold absorb that much chakra too, but the hachibi's full power is only 1/10 of that so how does this apply to this fight???

And since when can Killer B shoot 4-5 bijuudama's at once??? And what makes you think all 4-5 5 are as strong as a single blast and not just split up???

Either way, samehada has shown the ability to absrob away V2 7tails bijuu power back to V1 level in an insatnt of contact with the chakra too... SO if a bijuudama or multiple are fired and samehada can be incontact without interruptions of a physicla attack of a lariat which was why samehada did not absrob all the 7taisl power form, then they will likely be absorbed...

Not to mention that water jutsu can be used to slow down the bijuudama and even escape their blasts if they are somehow too much in multiple bijuudama form...

Or, Kisame can just use Daikodan which absrobs the power of the attack (many bijuudama) and increases the size of the shark missle which would be way too much for hachibi KB to handle, easily...

And do not forget about kisame once he unites with samehada... he automatically absorbs chakra just by touching a person or chakra so he can just absorb bijuudama by standing still while also being able to Spam the water prison jutsu with all the power he gets from the hachibi which can be used to drown Killer B and win too...


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## tanman (Jun 12, 2013)

Do recall Killer Bee was protecting Sabu and holding back his final form. 
With just manga knowledge, Fūinjutsu: Okutopasu Hōrudo can capture Kisame. Killer Bee can keep getting his chakra absorbed for as long as he needs to. The Hachibi has a veritable shitton and Hachimaki will work if he wants to get Kisame off his tail for a second. Being part octopus, I assume that full Hachibi can survive underwater, so in this fight he won't suffer from water-based stamina problems. Kisame looses. 10/10


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## ueharakk (Jun 12, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Ho is that a logical conclusion when bijudama is just an enemy ball *which can just be absorbed* while the lariat is a physical attack augmented by the energy to increase it's power so the physical attack itself cannot be stopped...


bolded is a baseless assertion.  The V2 cloak is made out of the exact same chakra as a bijuudama, yet kisame was still only able to absorb an insignificat amount of that chakra before taking the lariat's damage.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> You make no sense to think a bijuudama can do anything to kisame who can use samehada to absorb the whole thing... And in kisamehada mode, he can absorb chakra by just touching it meaning he can stand still and absrob the power!


This is concessionary since I have already provided the argument for Samehada's absorption mechanics and limits. The fact is that samehada only absorbs a tiny bit of chakra before getting hit with the attack, thus he's not absorbing a bijuudama before it kills him.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> What about "using super power" against kisame will not be effective does not compute for you guys??? saemhada can just absorb it!


that's only if you ignore the limits and mechanics of samehada's absorbing abilities and take a statement like "it can absorb chakra" and stretch it to mean that any attack that consists of chakra will be absorbed.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> No, not full power, 7 tails=almost full powers... And was able to absorb the form away in an instant back to the previous form so it could easily take all the chakra with a bijuudama that can be absorbed without being interrupted by a physical attack lariat...


It doesn't matter if Bee even had 8 tails with the V2 cloak, it's still not his full power as that's full hachibi.  Bee's able to use 8 tails while in V1, by your logic, bee would be at full power then.

In no way shape or form was Samehada able to absorb teh form away in an instant, Bee's lariat slammed into samehada, the chakra horns even pierced the sword, then kisame went flying back, and then the bulk of the V2 cloak started to leave bee.  That's in no way instant and if a bijuudama is launched, Samehada absorbs a tiny portion of the attacks chakra before teh attack explodes killing it and kisame.





Dragon Sage Ash said:


> How? Killer B has no way to take away samehada and even if he does, samehada comes back on it's own remember... This scenario is not possible!!1


IF killer B kills kisame and/or samehada with an attack, then it doesn't matter how much chakra they absorbed and can heal themselves with after taking the attack.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> And the water prison is the size of about 4 mountains, look at it above and how only 1/4 of the prison covers as much area as that mountain it is right beside...... thus it is about 4 mountain in size...


you were so happy to post panels earlier.  please show me how the water prison is about the size of 4 mountains.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Since when has Killer B analyzed something intelligently or came up with a strategy in combat... The hachibi has to do it for him as shown here...
> 
> ]
> 
> And how does intelligence and analytical abilities not apply to WINNING BATTLES when they are just as important if not mroe then FEATS of jutsu themselves...


none of those are downgrading analytic or intelligence feats, that's the thing you are trying to show.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> LMAO, you are blaming those two who were helping fight kisame before as being why kisame won in the water prison, not because Killer B was too weak and lacked the intelligence to use effective counter attacks...


Of course not, and I provided my reasoning for that, not that I really need to since anyone reading the manga objectively would see that Kisame only caught bee due to ponta and the samurai guy.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> And just because kisame was too much for them as kisame was for killer B does not change the fact they were helping...


am I arguing that ponta and the samurai guy WEREN'T trying to help Bee?  No, I'm saying that they were way more of a liability than an asset which is why Kisame was able to catch bee in the waterdome, why bee had to resort to trying to hide from Kisame, and most of all why bee couldn't go full hachibi.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Bee is an idiot and kept using more power... they tried to help and asssited him which is all that matters...


Baseless assertion that I have already shown to be fallacious.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> How about the fact you argue that KB transforming into full hachibi mode would even make a difference* when all it would do is let KB use the same tactics of firing more energy to be absorbed and only strengthening Kisame while Weakening him...*
> Yet somehow this could defeat Kisame... Makes no sense!!! Brute force with chakra cannot defeat kisame, this is canon!!!


Exactly, the bolded and a bunch of other factors are what you would have to pressupose in order for your conclusion to be true.  So the bolded is an assertion by you, an assertion that you have a burden of proof to support with evidence, and thus unless you do that, you simply stating those things is just as valid as any other argument.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> ANd that is pure fanning logic!* Killer B gave it everything he had up to 7 tails and only a PHYSICAL ATTACKED worked, not chakra attack...* and even that was easily healed by samehada so not even  physical attacks can hurt him!!! Do you see why Killer B could not win and cannot win since all he does is rely on power and brute force...


The bolded is flat out false as the lariat and the entire portion of the lariat that both did damage to samehada/kisame and made contact with it was made of pure chakra.  Thus the rest of your post falls apart since the thing you had to pressupose in order for it to be true is easily falsified.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Lol, killer b was so easily defeated without even trying to kill him that it is ridiculous for anyone to think that simply gaining another tail would make a difference...


Once again, anyone can make this claim about any argument.  By this logic SM Naruto can beat 1,000 hachibis




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> naruto was on top of hachibi I made mistake... Still, fact is, some physical attack like that will not beat kisame much less hurt him as Long as he has samehada and huge brute strength... He is known as the tailed beast without tails for a reason...


No one is arguing that whirlwind beats kisame, however it is going to knock him down on the ground and incapacitate him unless he is way more durable and powerful than one-tailed han who has striking feats and strength hype that craps all over kisame's own.

from there he gets rapidfire bijuudamad into oblivion.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> LAMO, this is what I mean!!! You completely ignore the fact that an energy attack will just be absorbed while only a physical attack can get through which is why a 7tail lariat>bijuudama...


Yeah this is flat out false as the V2 cloak and lariat are made completely out of chakra, yet only a tiny portion of the cloak was absorbed before Kisame took the full power of the hit.  Thus only a tiny portion of the bijuudama will be absorbed before it explodes on kisame.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> *That was not kisame, it was his zetsu clone, kisame was already inside samehada remember... Your example is invalid...*
> Samehada was taken by Le and Gai and it broke free and went back to kisame on it's own and will always come back to him which is why kisame in pretty much invincible...


That's concessionary dishonesty on your part since Samehada was not trying to come back ot kisame, it was trying to come back to BEE!!!!  Thus it doesn't matter who kicked it, it could have bee Ei for all I care, however it shows that after kicking the sword away into the trees, it couldn't get back to bee for a while.




Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Really... Because last I checked your whole argument was based on samehada somehow not doing what it is known for doing which is absorbing chakra easily... and that kisame cannot easily be healed by any physical attack the hachibi can throw at him in full hachibi mode...


Your argument is extrapolate statements and ignore actual mechanics and limitations of character abilities that the manga explicitly attributes to them.  That's why you make very broad statements like "absorbing chakra easily" while just completely ignoring HOW easily and at what consequence does samehada absorb chakra.



Dragon Sage Ash said:


> So tell me how this is completely anti-canonical again...
> 
> All that matters... Full hachibi mode will not make a difference when 7tail lariat was easily healed and bijuudama can easily be absorbed like it is nothing...


Whenever someone says things like "all that matters" or "its as simple as that" in a threat, that's pretty much a red flag for an attempt to disregard canon scans or showings that they don't like in order to push an agenda.

By this logic, I can just say "all that matters..... SM Naruto's clone beat Sandaime raikage with unlimited chakra and an immortal body, so SM Naruto >>>>>>>> Sandaime raikage = Hachibi"
Don't be dishonest and don't be ignorant.  If you have to stoop to practicing either then it tells you that your own view is pretty unsupported.


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## Language of Life (Jun 12, 2013)

Kisame cant handle full on Hachibi mode. Samehada was shown to be able to absorb most of the power of V2 lariat. Enough chakra and force was left available however, to keep Bee's shroud up and leave kisame with a giant whole in his abdomen. 

Full on Bijuu mode is something Kisame cannot handle with Samehada and water oceans. Bijjudama and that massive whirlwind thing take care of the water dome like nothing, and knock kisame off his feet, then Bee/hachibi just need to thrash him with a Bijuu's strength. 

Kisames best bet is his giant chakra absorbing shark, but multiple bijjudama handle that and even if he has Samehada as back up , it still couldn't absorb the entire blast, it is shown to have a limit in speed of absorption with V2 Bee (if i am remembering correctly), and there is no way it could absorb an entire Bijjudama before it explodes.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 13, 2013)

1). I already showed and explained why that happened... Samehada only touched the chakra for an instant before the physical attack of the lariat sent the sword and kisame flying... You are ignoring my argument...

So, if a simple bijuudama is used, it will be in constant contact with samehada which will easily absorb it if a compete V2 was absorbed in an instant of contact... 

2). Lol, all you did was make a claim and consider it a fact, WTH is that???

How does a bijuudama PHYSICALLY attack you like a lariat and not just use and energy explosion which can be nullified by absorbing the energy of the attack... You are really making no sense at all... You are making me regret replying to you again so far...


2). That is how chakra absorption works!!!  Samehada eats chakra and has a very high endurence to the point it at almost every bit of the haichbi's chakra and still wanted more...
Granted samehada does likely have a limit of how much it can take at once, but a bijuudama or two from the 8tails is clearly not that limit is in an instant of contact 8/12 of the hachibi entire power can be taken...

And yes... there are 3 versions to the hachibi which all have certain level of power...
V1=1/1o of the hachibi's power...
V2=9/10 of the hachibi's full power... the manga already stated it was 9x more chakra then V1... and is the power of the bijuu (8tails) in human form
v3 full hachibi=10/10 whole power...

and since samehada took away V2 completely back to V1, then 8/10ths of the power was taken in an instant of contact with the chakra so what do you think will happen with continuous contact of a bijuudama without a physical attack to interfere??? It will be absorbed...

4).
whether 8taisl are shown in V1 means nothing... but 2 is known for being the power of the bijuu in Human form which means almost full power... 8tails can only be used at full power... and 8tails in human form where bones and tissue is regrown is very close to full power... By logic, you have to know that V2 is very very close to full power in HUMAN form...

What about "the power of the bijuu concentrated into HUMAN FORM" does not compute about V2 form??? That is what V2 is... it is very close to the full power of the bijuu... just concentrated into HUMAN form...

read what the enka master says...Link removed

and in V2, he does have 8tails... count them... it is almost all the power concentrated into the human form...

5). LAMO, the manga showed that with that instant of contact that the V2 was absorbed and took bee back to V1... look at the panel sucking the form up...



And this is the form he was taken back to in that instant of contact which even inspired KB to boast of the eating ability of samehada too... in case you misse din the previous panels I posted...



6). How can KB kill Kisame when he has instant regeneration?? What about kisame's comment "I will not tire or DIE" did not compute"...



Killer B cannot kill kisame with the power attacks he has and uses which is what kisame was boasting and proved himself could not kill him... I mean the 8tails bijuu power in Human form using a lariat was the best he could do and it was easily healed like nothing happened at all... 

7). Lol, so Killer B too stupid to understand how to get out of the water prison is not showing a lack of intelligence and lacking any analytical ability to even notice that the water prison is moving with them is not showing a lack of analytical ability... All of this KB missed which was pointed out by the 8tails Gyuki... How can you not undertsand this???

even here Killer B is called dumb too.. "B he is absorbing your chakra, why are the strong one always so STUPID"...Link removed


8). I have to question your intelligence when you counter claim something I have already proven... Killer B is an Idiot!!! Proven by his idea to just to try to beat Kisame with a Lariat that failed twice before...

Shown here...



And you do not even know what a fallacy is otherwise you would know your entire argument is nothing more then Cherry picking... and conformation bias... ignoring contradictive evidence that refutes your claims...

9).
LAMO, now you are basically using Moving the goalpost fallacy asking for more evidence after I provided sufficient evidence to support my claim...

Whether it is bijuudama or a couple of them... Kisame's can absorb then and fire them back at KB with daikoden or absrob them with samehada...

How is kisame's statement "the stronger my opponent, the stronger I get" so explain to you that all his power is just going to be taken by samehada and given to kisame???

Exhibit A:Link removed Kisame's statement that proves he can just tkae w/e the hachibi throws at him and make it his own... the more powerful his opponent, th emore powerful kisame will become...

Exhibit B;
Link removedDaikoden ABSORBS the ninjutsu of the enemy (so bijuudama) strengthening kisame's own attack proving a bijuuudama or multiple will no t work!!!

That is two pieces of evidence i have already provided before yet you ignored them... So, try to ignore them again... Quit cherry picking!!!

You try to use fallacies without even knowing how to apply them accurately lol...

10). Basically your entire argument is criticizing my argument without showing any support for your counter claims... Just complaining... trying to use big world and concepts you clearly have no understanding of by your use of them...
and still using conformation BIAS for Cherry Picking Fallacy... ignoring contradictive evidence that refutes your postion and claims...

Such as...
: Samehada's ability to absorb away 8/10ths of the hachibi's power with only an instant on contact with a lariat physical attack... thus, if a bijuudama is used with no physical attack combo then samehada will have as much time as he needs to absorb the chakra of the bijuudama which will allow him to adsorb the whole thing easily...
And if there is somehow too much for samehada to absorb... Kisame can use Daikoden to get the job done and it has no limits of how much it can absorb... It is known for absorbing the power of a ninjutsu in order to increase it's own power...

and if somehow some power get away and blows up in kisame's face... samehada WILL INSTANLY HEAL kisame completely nullifying the effectiveness of KB's attack... Beucase what good is all that power if ksiame will just instantly regenerate anything KB throws at him...

: INSTANT REGENERATION!!! Which you consistently ignore the hell out of! Ever since kisame took the hachibi's strongest PHYSICAL ATTACK which was the V2 lariat and easily healed himself with samehada instantly... Proving that KB doe snot have a strong enough physical attack to possibly beat Kisame if his best could be healed so easily...

: Samehada's ability to return to kisame if knocked out of his hand or kisame fusing with it so it cannot be taken when the strategy is attempted... Kisame proves this here when enka master realizes samehada needs to be taken away, then kisame fuses with it so that becomes impossible...

ENka master "we have to take his sword away, it's his source of power"...:Link removed

Kisame then fusing with his sword: "well f you can take it from by body that is haha..":Link removed

CONCLUSION:
Yet again it comes down to the chakra absorbing ability of samehada which is proven enough to easily absorb a bijuudama due to the fact 8/10ths of the power was taken in an instant of contact with the lariat... and a bijuudama is the 10/10 full power of the bijuu, thus with only two instants of contact, absorbing the entire bijuudama will be easy.. much less constant contact with the bijuudama while absorbing it...
And the Instant regeneration ability as well... Which was already shown to easily heal the beast physical attack that KB has too.. Proving KB's attacks too weak to actually kill him...

Not to mention the FACT I have proven that samehada will return to Kisame if he loses hold of it in combat or just fuse with it if the enemy openly tries to take it away so kisame;s abilities to heal any damage and nullify any chakra attacks cannot be taken away from him...

Meaning Killer B doe snot stand a chance... and the fact that he already gave it everything he had as opposed to using his full size and a simple whirlwind attack, but was so easily defeated without even trying to kill him is more then enough to make it obvios that KB cannot beat kisame...


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 13, 2013)

Language of Life said:


> Kisame cant handle full on Hachibi mode. Samehada was shown to be able to absorb most of the power of V2 lariat. Enough chakra and force was left available however, to keep Bee's shroud up and leave kisame with a giant whole in his abdomen.



1). Using v2 human Bijuu mode is using pretty much all the hachibi's power... Which is why it was said to be the bijuu's power in HUMAN form... and it was easily absorbed and what was left was not enough to kill kisame and was easily healed as well...

2). Kisame;s chest was not blow open, his flesh was blown off his chest nothing else.. but was easy healing for instant regeneration though...

3). the chakra that was left did not do anything, the force and momentum of the lariat did all the damage... KB was moving at a super high speed with a huge amount of weight being in V2 which was too much for kisame or samehada to just deflect...



> Full on Bijuu mode is something Kisame cannot handle with Samehada and water oceans. Bijjudama and that massive whirlwind thing take care of the water dome like nothing, and knock kisame off his feet, then Bee/hachibi just need to thrash him with a Bijuu's strength.



Lol, what??? samehada easily handles the 4tails and his attacks... and we saw what the 4tails did to the hachibi, didn;t we...
SImply claiming something means nothing, you need evidence to back up your claim... What evidence do you have to show that full hachibi mode will easily handel samehada and an ocean becuase I have evidence to the contrary...

1). The hachibi admits to being at a disadvantage while in a small lake of water against sauigtesu using a very small wave... shown here... suigets able to hold the hachibi back with a tiny wave Lol...



Imagine then what this would do to the hachibi...

1000 water shark jutsu..._the power_

Great water shark missile jutsu that absorbs the power of the enemies ninjutsu and uses it to increase the power and zie of his great shark missile...
_the power_

Or how about a Giant water prison jutsu that can blind the movements of the hachibi enough so he cannot use his whirlwind attack, or escape becuase kisame moves it with the enemy so they cannot escape...

ALl in all, Kisame's going to overwhelm the hachibi with his attacks because Gyuki himself admitted to being at a disadvantage while in a small lake against a small wave attack. too...
Manga supports my claim and refutes yours...





> Kisames best bet is his giant chakra absorbing shark, but multiple bijjudama handle that and even if he has Samehada as back up , it still couldn't absorb the entire blast, it is shown to have a limit in speed of absorption with V2 Bee (if i am remembering correctly), and there is no way it could absorb an entire Bijjudama before it explodes.


[/QUOTE]

Lol, the more bijuudama or power you throw at Daikodeon/great shark missile jutsu, the more powerful it will become... What manga are you reading??? The manga clearly states this so why is it not being factored in?

And samehada can easily absorb a bijuudama, making it so it cannot explode because so much chakra is taken away in an instant (8/10ths of it) causes it to be broken down completely... A bijuudama cannot work without all of it;s chakra to keep it stable and power... take away even some of that power and the it loses it shape and falls apart...


I have said it before, I will say it again...

Kisame beats Killer B and the hachibi because he can steal the hachibi;s power and just make himself stronger while making KB weaker... and whatever power is not eaten by samehada and hits kisame will still not defeat him because samehada will just instantly regenerate any damage kisame receives...
and since samehada returns to kisame on it's own when taken away or fuses with kisame, it cannot be taken away from kisame for more then a short time if at all...

Kisame beats Killer B... Going full hachibi will make little difference when kisame  already tanked KB;s ultimate physical attack, easily healing the damage... and redirect or absorb his bijuudama... leaving Kb with nothing else to use...


KISAME WINS....


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## ueharakk (Jun 13, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Dragon Sage Ash said:


> 1). I already showed and explained why that happened... Samehada only touched the chakra for an instant before the physical attack of the lariat sent the sword and kisame flying... You are ignoring my argument...
> 
> So, if a simple bijuudama is used, it will be in constant contact with samehada which will easily absorb it if a compete V2 was absorbed in an instant of contact...
> 
> ...








how about you go and quote the exact statements you are responding to so that we can keep this conversation clear and as on-point as possible.


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## joshhookway (Jun 13, 2013)

Bee wins with whirlwind or Multiple bijuudama. Realize that samehada will ditch kisame after awhile.


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## Language of Life (Jun 13, 2013)

Well this is going to be a chore. I respect your tenacity though. 




> Dragon Sage Ash said:
> 
> 
> > 1). Using v2 human Bijuu mode is using pretty much all the hachibi's power... Which is why it was said to be the bijuu's power in HUMAN form... and it was easily absorbed and what was left was not enough to kill kisame and was easily healed as well...
> ...


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 14, 2013)

Language of Life said:


> 1 - Stop saying V2 must equal the hachibi's power in every way shape or form. It has not shown the destructive capacity of a bijjudama, nor has it shown the speed or strength needed to wipe out an entire forest in a massive whirlwind. You can dick ride character comments all you want, but there is no concrete evidence stating V2 = Hachibi in chakra, damage output, or physical stats, no matter what master Sabu said. Cannon feats>>> cannon comments.



Lol, how is the feat of moving faster then samehada can eat to completely nullify the attack not a speed feat???
And the huge amount of power that was being put out too which was shown by the huge winds and pressure created by the power...

And obviously, whirlwind in full hachibi mode<lariat in human bijuu mode... Whirlwind uses size and momentum not power... Human bijuu mode lariat is pure speed and power feat that is obviously the strongest KB has...

Whirlwind merely knocked down some JINKS in Human mode, not bijuu power mode lol...
(note no physical damage was suffered by the JINKS in anyway, they were just knocked back and down by the attack)/
 stronger

However, the V2 bijuu HUMAN mode lariat was so strong and fast that it was able to almost bypass the chakra absorbing and knock kisame back, blow open his chest and even bust a hole in samehada too... and Kisame is at base, as strong and powerful as A BIJUU... which is why he is called a no tail bijuu... stronger

And due to the FACT that the full hachibi mode Whirlwind attack only destroyed the surrounding area, not the enemy... not hurting them at all, just kncoking them back in on base human mode...
Meanwhile, Vs HUMAN bijuu mode did not destroy the surrounding area, but completely shit kicked kisame and samehada at once, blowing his chest wide open, causing internal damage and pocking a hole in samehada too...

By these FACTS, VS Human Bijuu mode LARIAT>Full Hachibi mode Whirlwind attack... Sorry, the whirlwind did no damage to the enemy, only the battle feld... and who cares if the battle field is destroyed if the enemy is unharmed!!!



> 2- Im being a bit anal here but so are you, so whatever. I said his abdomen, not his chest. And yes it was blown out. The skin and muscles were completely gone, you could see straight through to his ribs.



I never said that Kisame was not seriously hurt... that the flesh was blown off which can only be done by taking the tisse, ect with it...



> 3- I never said the left over chakra contributed to the damage on Kisame. I was recognizing the left over chakra as a measure of the limit to which how much Samehada can absorb. Again, Bee may have said the sword is a beast at eating chakra but the fact remains it could not eat all  of only the V2 form. I doubt it could handle all the chakra of a highly compressed bijudama before it blows. Especially considering it has been stated many times as the epitome of a Bijju's attack power. Not to mention Bee has already shown the capability to fire the shockwave of compressed bijjudama chakra instead of just firing the actual ball.
> stronger
> Take a look at the next page to see the shockwave envelop and destroy several mountains.



But you are ignoring the FACT that samehada only made contact for an INSTANT Before It and kisame were blown back and injured... Meaning the LIMIT of eating with only an INSTANT of contact is V2 level of chakra... Not for more then an instant of contact... FACT!
The Speed of the lariat was too fast for samehada to possibly eat chakra for mor ethen the instant it was in contact with the lariat itself... WHich is my point...

Thus, if samehada can eat so much in an INSTANT of contact (about 8/10ths of the full power of the hachibi), then why would samehada with as much time as it needs of contact not be able to eat ALL 10/10 amount of chakra which is what a bijuudama is... You have no addressed this...



> Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here. You have no idea how the four tails fought Kisame. All we know is that Kisame beat it with Itachi's indirect, probably kagebunshin and genjutsu, support. We dont know if Kisame had to use his shark wakes or even his giant shark. We do not know what he had to use Samehada for or what he may have needed to avoid. Point is that all we know it he used Samehada to hold the old man up like a trophy and that is it. Plus all Son Goku did was throw the hachibi after surprising him. He literally went full bujuu right underneath Gyuki:



Do what???
1). Itachi was never implied to of helped at all...
2). Kisame is known as the greatest weapon against the JINKS due to his ability to draw off their power and become as much stronger as they are strong and never tire or die...

Kisame obviously implied his abilities of Chakra eating, instant regeneration and powerful water jutsu make shim perfect for capturing JINKS, much less killing them...



> stronger
> 
> This allowing him the chance to topple and then throw him. Right after that Gyuki used his tentacles to completely restrain Son Goku in every way except the mouth. What Son did was not all that impressive from what is expected of a bijju and does not at all make him physically stronger than Gyuki if that is what your implying.



Never implied that 4tails>8tails at all... But 4tails was strong enough to compete and take on the 8tails himself and kisame easily defeated him and his JINK before, Roushi... and without killing him too... So if the hachibi is shown just as strong as the 4tails who was so easily defeated... then what good would the 8tails do, even after kisame easily defeated his power and KB before too...

Somehow, Killer B fans are convincing themselves that literally 1/10 of power gained by going full hachibi mode and just the size and brute strength would be enough to beat kisame after he easily proved his superiority to Killer B and ability to nullify the hachibi's power and attacks...

HUMAN Bijuu form V2 is the bijuu's power in HUMAN form... even having 8tails too... So it is pretty much all the hachibi's power in Human form... and it was not enough to beat Kisame due to instant regeneration...
So how in the world will an attack that oly knocks you back and down or a bijuudama which is a pure chakra attack which will just be eaten, beat kisame??? Makes no sense! 




> Since when did disadvantage mean weaker than. Anyone proficient in water ninjutsu  would have the advantage while fighting over a lake, that does not mean they win. Garra had the advantage in the desert, that did not stop his ass, along with those of the other 4 kages, from getting beat by Madara.



Gaara fighting on land does give him an advantage... But against madara, is this really a complete comparison when comparing hachibi vs Kisame? It seems to be the opposite which is a fallacy...

The hachibi was at a disadvantage against only suigetsu in a small lake with a small wave too... FACT! Thus Kisame who's water attacks which are 10x or more in size and power as well as ocean he forces his enemies to fight on, not a lake would put hachibi at a huge disadvantage if such a small lake and wave attack is a disadvantage for the hachibi...
Are you following???

The godly water attacks and ocean is only one huge disadvantage...
Kisame being able to eat the chakra of the hachibi and his attacks and make it his own so chakra attacks which the hachibi is known for gives him another huge disadvantage...
Not to mention the FACT that kisame has instant regeneration and nothing the hachibi or KB can do will be enough to defeat Kisame if the most powerful attack (V2 HUman bijuu mode lariat) was so easily healed....

That is 3 HUGE disadvantages with no advantage other then sheer size for the hachibi... and that can be nullified by kisame's brute strength and power as a no tails Bijuu... and we saw how other bijuu stacked up against the 8tails remember...




> Bee is vastly superior to suigetsu in almost every way, yet still conceded the advantage to him while in water. Do you honestly think that means he would beat Bee/Hachibi; even in the water?



Of course not... But you still miss my point... if such  a small lake and wave attack is considered a disadvantage by the hachibi... Then Imagine what Kisame's 10 times or greater attacks and ocean he forces his enemies to fight on is as a disadvantage for the hachibi...
Mathematically... The disadvantage is proportionate to the size of the water and attacks of kisame which is 10 times or more...




> At the bolded. Someone who is right in their assertions does not need to tell the people they are arguing with that the facts are on their side. Your argument should do that itself. Saying something like that about mostly subjective opinions is stupid.



What is "Stupid" is the constant CLAIMS without support of evidence that are used as facts not mere opinions are stupid obviously...
And while there are subjective opinions on the subject... The claims I make based on actual statements and feats are more objective then the opposite... How they apply is more subjective if you want to get technical...
:


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 14, 2013)

*CONTINUED...*




> We have never seen Hachibi fight kisame in full bijju form, nor have we seen kisame use his shark wave or giant shark head agaisnt Gyuki so *most * of our arguments are solely opinions based off of what we have seen. From what i have seen, i dont think Water/Ocean prison is binding Hachibi or keeping him from making a bijjudama to blow out of it. Same goes for giant wave of sharks, and the giant shark head. All Gyuki needs is the shock wave form the link i posted of him blowing up mountains to obliterate all those moves. Remember we are talking the after blast, not a condensed bijju ball that would be easier to absorb.



A bijuudama could blow the 8tails out of the prison theoretically, only if kisame is not there to absorb the attack in kisamehada mode... which means he only needs to touch the bijuudama to absorb it... So how will kisame just sit there and let the hachibi break itself free using the same attack kisame is known to nullify with his chakra eating ability???

What shockwave??? In order to create such a thing, he would have to use a technique that samehada will just eat in a matter of a second or two... So how is it going to be used without the ability to use bijuudama or energy attack effectively???

And what link exactly??? The one with the BEAM bijuudama... that is not a shock wave... merely a bijuudama used as a beam instead...



> And again, stop dick riding comments. Ive already gave you my opinion on the whole disadvantage bullshit he told Suigetsu only to have him destroy suigetsu seconds later. Disadvantage does not equal a loss.



You do realize that all combat and it's outcome is mostly based on effective use of advantage and disadvantage... and comparing suigetsu and kisame is like comparing SM naruto and konohamaru lol... kisame would have ahchibi at a HUGE disadvantage is suigestu had the haichibi at a disadvantage...



> I am factoring it in. I have seen far greater and more powerful feats from Gyuki bijjudama than i have great shark missile. Not to mention that Bee can fire his Bijjudama as a shockwave (link somewhere toward the beginning) which can destroy multiple mountains. That leads me to believe it is to big and destructive for Daikoden to absorb.



Feats wise... hugely destructive attacks<attacks that absorb chakra and redirect all attacks back at the enemy...

But what good is all that power and destruction if samehada will just eat the chakra to negate the attack??? Or if Daikoden shark missile absorbs the ninjutsu's power and uses it to increase it's own size and power... 

And since daikoden ABSORBS the power of the ninjutsu, thus bijuudama beam, ball or many balls.... The jutsu absorbs them, and the more powerful the enemies ninjutsu, the more powerful the great shark missile becomes which equals the defeat of the hacihibi... judging by the already huge size of the shark missile.. The bijuudama beam, ball or many balls could increase it's size and power 5-10x more which would easily defeat even a bijuu like the hachibi...

Stated here...* Daikoden will absorb the power of the ninjutsu of the enemy, thus th emore pwoerful the ninjutsu then more powerful his shark missile becomes...*



So a bijuudama beam, ball or multi-balls would only increase the power and size of the shark missle in proportion to their power which would create such a huge and powerful chakra missile that the hachibi should be defeated by that single attack...


So bijuudama beam, ball or many balls<samehada coupled with instant regeneration to heal what cannot be absorbed... and daikoden shark missile that will absorb the bea, ball or many bijuudama ball and strengthen itslef with them to overwhelm the hachibi...



> Second bolded sentence: instead of fall apart i believe you mean explode on a smaller scale:
> 
> stronger
> See next page to see the explosion.
> ...



But The kyuubi's bijuudama was not absorbed any, it just went off because it was ignited by a falling rock...

I do think the bijuudama will make a smaller explosion, but nothing special which is what a V1 level power explosion is... about 1/10 the full 8tails power explosion... That is If for some reason the chakra eating is interupted by a physical attack like a lariat...Beucase as I pointed out and howed before with the panel...
samehada literally only got an INSTANT of contact with Killer B's lariat arm in V2 Human bijuu form. Yet still ate away the complete V2 form which is 8/10ths of the hachibi's full power too...
So if a bijuudama is shot and samehada gets as much time as it needs, there is no reason it should not be able to eat the entire beam, ball or balls that are shot at it..

And if the bijuudama is dependent on the kind of chakra to sustain it.... 80% dark chakra and 20% light chakra... then one type could be taken away causing the bijuudama to fall apart...  but that is very unlikely IMO...



> You told me to support everything with evidence, i have done my best to do so. However, I would like to see some evidence of the 8/10's absorption ration of full Hachibi form (or even V2) that you keep using as your basis for Samehada being able to handle full Gyuki attacks. From what i can tell it is some stat you made up and has no real basis in manga cannon.



I already posted it in a previous post, but I will post it again if you did not see it...

: V2 is the bijuu's power (the hachibi's) in HUMAN form... which is shown with 8tails and looking like a bull too... and it was 9 times the amount of chakra that V1 produced of the hachibi's chakra...

[

Although it is said to be MORe the 9times more, but not 10x more.. So I rounded down to 9...

And since V2 cannot be exactly All the 8tails power in such a small form IMO, but very close being it's power in HUMAN form... but 9 times greater the V1.... I came to the conclusion that V2 is about 9/10ths of the hachibi's power... which means V1 is 1/10 the hachibi's power... and V3 full Hachibi mode is 10/10...

And since the the whole V2  9/10ths of power form was eaten in just an INSTANT of contact with samehada... leaving only V1 1/10 form... Then I concluded that about 8/10ths of the hachibi's full power was eaten in that Instant and could be in any instant too... shown again in the water prison with kisamehada vs the V2 human bijuu form again...

(Killer b in V2 Human bijuu form gets hit by kisamehada which takes away his V2 instantly leaving him v1 again, but Killer B uses a tentacle at the same time separate then hold kisamehada off of him from drawing away the rest of his chakra... excet what he can take from the tentacle itself...)



CONCLUSION:
This is why I say that kisame or his samehada union form Kisamehada are able to eat/absorb 8/10ths of the hachibi's power in just an instant of direct contact...



> I have also said it before, and i will also say it again...
> 
> I disagree, Bee/ Hachibi win.



But how?? realistically??? I have shown that whirlwind and bijuudama beam, ball and multi-balls are not going to be effective against Kisame due to the fact Whirlwind did not even hurt the JINKS in base human mode so why would it hurt kisame who at base bijuu level in strength and power with shakr skin which icnrease his durability even further...
And since samehada, kisamehada can eat so much chakra (almost all the 8tails power 8/10ths) in a mere instant,too I might ad. and daikoden can just absorb the bijuudama beam, ball or ball and increase it's own size and power to defeat Killer B...

Because almost all the power of the hachibi was proven ineffective with the V2 lariat when it was not only almost absorbed completely, but the damage it did was easily healed too...
Thus, if the strongest physical attack of Killer B's is not enough to kill kisame and be healed so easily then how will Killer B ever beat kisame... I mean really... HOW???



> Kisame will give em a run for their money though.



Logically, reasonably... Killer b has no way to beat kisame with his disadvantages...
: Killer B cannot use his powerful energy attacks effectively due to samehada's chakra eating ability to nullify chakra attacks even of the bijuu scale... nullifying ninjutsu!!!
: Killer B's even most powerful attacks (bijuudama beam, ball and multi-balls) can just be redirected back at killer B with Daikoden...nullifying and redirecting ninjutsu!!!
: Killer B and the hachibi are at a great disadvantage forced to fight on and in a ton of water and against super water jutsu of such scale and power too... water advantage!!!
: Killer B's most powerful physical attack which surpasses whirwind in damage given was so easily healed...so the strongest physical attack did not even work...
Thus kisame will not die due to his instant regeneration... cannot be killed advantage!!!
: And since kisame is at base bijuu level in strength and power... and will only gain more power proportinate to his enemies power... he will never run out of chakra or tire either...
So unlimited chakra/stamina advantage...

All in all, kisame will weaken his enemy, nullifying all his ninjutsu while growing more powerful, never tiring and never dying being able to instantly regenerate any and all damage he receives form the nemey so ALL physical attacks are nullified and made ineffective too only leaving GENJUTSU, which Killer B does not have...... thus being able to spam his super powerful water jutsu that KB is already at a disadvantage against...

HOW does Killer B WIN against kisame in such a situation??? I mean really!!!


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## Bonly (Jun 14, 2013)

I'd say B would win more times then not. B already knows that going into CQC wouldn't be to his favor so going Bijuu mode would be the way to go. He can shoot off some Bijuudama for the win. Now since I know Dragon Sage Ash will reply Suiton: Daikōdan in the form of a large scan, I will tell you why Bijuudama would end this eventually. B has been shown to fire off at least 4 Bijuudama at once and in the same scan we see the Juubilaser hit some Bijuudama can make them detonated. If Kisame used Suiton: Daikōdan against B's Bijuudama rapid fire then Suiton: Daikōdan will not absorb all of them. One Bijuudama will likely hit another causing it to explode. The explosion of two or more Bijuudama's should be enough to kill Kisame. If it doesn't kill him right away then it should do the trick eventually.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jun 15, 2013)

Bonly said:


> I'd say B would win more times then not. B already knows that going into CQC wouldn't be to his favor so going Bijuu mode would be the way to go. He can shoot off some Bijuudama for the win. Now since I know Dragon Sage Ash will reply Suiton: Daikōdan in the form of a large scan, I will tell you why Bijuudama would end this eventually. B has been shown to fire off at least 4 Bijuudama at once and in the same scan we see the Juubilaser hit some Bijuudama can make them detonated. If Kisame used Suiton: Daikōdan against B's Bijuudama rapid fire then Suiton: Daikōdan will not absorb all of them. One Bijuudama will likely hit another causing it to explode. The explosion of two or more Bijuudama's should be enough to kill Kisame. If it doesn't kill him right away then it should do the trick eventually.



Huge problems with your argument and allot you are ignoring Evidence while merely arguing with cliams, not support...!!!

1). Going bijuu mode is the worse thing he can do because...

FIRST: Samehada can easily eat the bijuu chakra to only strengthen kisame while weakening killer B.... samehada was shown to eat away V2 Human Bijuu form which is almost all the bijuu's power in human form (about 9/10ths of it;s power) in an instant of contact so what do you think will happen if samehada can mantian contact for more then an instant??? He will eat it all!!!

SECOND: Full hachibi whirlwind was shown to only destroy the surrounding area, not even hurt the enemy/s... just knock them down to the ground when they were not even in bijuu forms of any level, just in base human mode too... Meanwhile kisame is at base a no tails bijuu in strength and power which is equal the the JINKS in bijuu form... 

So if whirlwind cannot even hurt, just knock back and down JINKS in Human base form...
Then it will definitely not hurt kisame who is Bijuu level in strength and power while just in base form too... So whirlwind will do nothing other then destroy the area, not even hurt kisame...

THIRD: Killer B's stronger physical attack, his V2 Human bijuu mode LARIAT was proven ineffective due to kisame's instant regeneration ability... 

Thus, going hachibi mode will not help him at all... Just make him a bigger taget to hit more eaily then when he is in Human bijuu form and can use super speed with the same amount fo strength and power almost...

2). DAIKODEN is known for absorbing the enemies NINJUTSU which would be the bijuudama beam, ball or multiple balls too... and using their power to increase it's own power and size, thus such attacks will only serve to strengthen kisame's own attack against Killer B...

I mean daikonden will not suddenly not absorb the bijuudama/s just because you believe it wont... that FACT it is known to absorb ninjutsu and the more powerul the Ninjutsu. the stronger the diakoden will become so it has no known limit... The stronger the ninjutsu attack/bijuudama, the stronger it will make daikoden!!!

CONCLUSION:
Due to samehada, chakra attacks of any level will not work beacuase samehada will just eat the chakra taking it away to weaken killer B and strengthen kisame at the same time...
Due to daikoden great shark missile, kisame can literally redirect the hachibi's power bijuudama, beam or many balls back at him by absrobing them and proportionately increaing the size and power of his shark missile which would be so such and power, it would easily overwhelm and defeat the full hachibi mode KB...
Due to the Utterly HUGE disadvantage of having to fight on a huge body of water and against super zie and powerful water attacks...
And Most of all, because nothing Killer B can do can kill and defeat kisame becuase he has INSTANT REGENERATION!!!

So, this is the reality of the situation for Killer B...

Kisame's overwhelming advantages...
1). can nullify all chakra attacks with samehada and Daikoden...
2). Can put KB and hachibi at a huge disadvantage forcing them to fight on and in water where they cannot move very well, not fast.. while aslo having to defend against utterly huge super powered water jutsu too...
3) While nullifying all chakra attacks, kisame will only steal the chakra to grow even stronger while KB grows weaker and weaker... SO kisame WILL NOT TIRE thus can SPAM SUper water jutsu all day every day while Killer B is running out of chakra quickly...
4). And Most of all... w/e chakra may get past samehada, explode and physical attacks are completely nullified as well because kisame can INSTANLY REGENERATE ANY damage he receives...

REALITY:
So Killer B cannot use his powerful overwhelming bijuu chakra attack... 
Killer B is only weakening himself while making kisame stronger so he can keep spamming his super powerful water jutsu...
Killer B cannot use any speed or effective taijutsu on or inside water...
and Killer B cannot kill or even injure kisame due to his INSTANT REGENERATION...
Not to mention if Killer b tried to take away samehada, kisame will just fuse with it to make that impossible...

So KB  cannot HURT kisame, cannot use his powerful attacks, only makes kisame stronger and himself weaker when using his chakra attacks while also being very immobile and inefffective in taijutsu and swordsmanship forced to fight on a large body of water or in one too...


EDIT:
And why does everyone being up the fact that Killer B did not use his full size hachibi form, but did use his full power of that full form almost in Human bijuu V2 form which was proven ineffective by samehada's chakra eating ability and instant regeneration too...
But it is very brought up the FACT that, Kisame was Holding back not trying to kill Killer B, only wear him out then hide in samehada and get Killer B to take samehada with him so he cna infiltrate the cloud village... 
Meaning Kisame was not even trying to capture hi either lol... just wear him down the hide in samehada lol...

So then in a fight where kisame wants to kill him and will not hold back just trying to drain chakra... all the sudden going into a full bijuu form which has no attacks that can get past Daikoden or samehada's chakra eating ability and instant regeneration too... Will allow Killer B to beat an enemy that beat him so easily while only trying to steal chakra... not even kill or capture...

I mean COME ON!!! Kisame was holding back way, way ore the Killer B was, unarguably!!!
Not using 1/10 more of power and full size making him a easier target to hit<not even trying to kill or capture, merely just sitting back and stealing chakra only to achieve a specific goal...


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## Bonly (Jun 15, 2013)

Dragon Sage Ash said:


> Snip



Too much crap which didn't even really address anything that I said in my post. So let me say it again so you can actually address my points and my points only, no extra crap. 

-B can go full Bijuu Mode.
-B can fire off 4 Bijuudama's at once.

-Suiton: Daikōdan  hasn't shown to absorb ninjutsu, only been told it can thus we don't know how fast it would absorb a Bijuudama.
-We have seen that the Juubi laser was able to detonated B's+Naruto's Bijuudama's when his laser hit their balls.

-We have seen two huge Bijuudama run into each other and detonated.
-If B shot off four then one of his Bijuudama can hit another one causing 4 to detonated at once. 

-An explosion of a Bijuudama is quite huge. If 4 Bijuudama were to detonated then Kisame is sure to get caught in said explosion. 
-If Kisame somehow doesn't die the first time around then all B who have to do is repeat the process.

Now that was the reason why I think B can win. Please address those points and those points only, I'm not gonna read through and reply to a TL;DR post which address many points I didn't bring up.


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## Larcher (Jun 16, 2013)

Killer Bee should take this one the only reasons as to why he lost last time was since he was trying to avoid attention so he didn't transform into Version one Hachibi instead he used Version Two which plays right in Kisames favour as getting up close and absorbing his chakra was also very likely due to the very fact that Killer Bee had absolutely no knowledge and Kisame did not to mention that animal that got in his and that Samurai guy it's also likely he wasn't going to use a Biju Dama since he was trying not to bring out attention so shooting a Biju Dama at the water done to break out is a no go area for him to aswell as dimly trying kill him with it so he was screwed left right and centre from there previous matchup.

This one Killler Bee should capitalise against Kisame he knows to be cautios with Samehada and the Hachanu by his side telling him to be aware is an added bonus he'll simply go into Full Hachabu form break out of water dome blast him with a Biju Dama he won't be able to absorb either as Samehada already has shown a limit of chakra it can absorb in one go it Gould only absorb 5 tails out of eight so he isn't gonna do anything there is that 100 water shark jutsu that can absorb chakra and make the attack stronger as it goes on it probably has a limit a Biju bomb would meet that limit and its not going to hurt bee as he's durable enough to tank his own attacks and by then he'll just go 8 tail Biju twister doesn't have any chakra infused its just sheer strength so Bee wins.


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