# Can anything beat super tengen toppa gurren lagann?



## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Sorry if this topic has been done before.. the search function doesnt work for my phone.

I just finished watched ttgl and the movie as well...

is there any character(excluding the anti spiral) from any source of fiction that can beat the final gurren lagann form? the one who uses galaxies as shurkiens and tanks big bang force attacks.

If no single character can take it surely some verses can right?

Again sorry if this has been done to hell and back.


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## Solar (Sep 17, 2014)

If I recall correctly, any multiversal worth their salt should be able to do it.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

Bernkastel said:


> If I recall correctly, any multiversal worth their salt should be able to do it.



Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Outside of multiversals, I'd also say Saint Seiya Top Tiers should be able to do it, similar or higher DC/Durability, faster, more hax


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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

Basically, a ton of 'verses and even individual characters could casually solo TTGL as a 'verse, let alone one character from it.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 17, 2014)

Sepulchritude Problem Sleuth


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 17, 2014)

Elder God Pedobane
Although if we are naming characters that do not suck dick, then I nominate Id/Fei.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Hmm i gotta watch more shows it seems i thought itd be king shit of fictional characters.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Hmm i gotta watch more shows it seems i thought itd be king shit of fictional characters.


If you wanna be top tier in all of fiction you gotta be at least Megaversal. The only verses I can think of on that level are:

Marvel
DC
Image?
Suggsverse
Lovecraft Mythos?
Elder God Demonbane
Tenchi Muyo


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## shade0180 (Sep 17, 2014)

Suggsverse............ 


Anyway yea almost any multiversal character can solo the verse.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> Suggsverse............



Quality does not equal power unfortunately. Although Squirrel Girl still solos Suggsverse along with rest of fiction.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

at needing Multiversal for this


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

No one said you needed a multiversal for this, just that any multiversal could do it. The same way you don't need a planetary character to beat the HST, but you could beat them with any decent planetary.
One I example I gave was Saint Seiya which is only universal+ at top tiers (as far as I know) and yet would beat STTGL.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Universal alone shouldnt cut it. the sttgl tanked an attack that was stated to have the force that equals to the creation of the universe and wasnt even hurt.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 17, 2014)

Full Possession Cybuster and Neo Granzon would wreck STTGL


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 17, 2014)

Also obligatroy Getter Emperor

And Chirico's Pistol


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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Universal alone shouldnt cut it. the sttgl tanked an attack that was stated to have the force that equals to the creation of the universe and wasnt even hurt.



 Big Bang =/= Universe Level at all.


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Universal alone shouldnt cut it. the sttgl tanked an attack that was stated to have the force that equals to the creation of the universe and wasnt even hurt.



which still won't help against some hax characters that are not universal in dc


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## Qinglong (Sep 17, 2014)

Chirico's pistol too much high power, man


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Sep 17, 2014)

Anti-Spiral running Scurred of Big Bad Getta Emprah


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Ampchu said:


> Big Bang =/= Universe Level at all.



The big bang was an outward explosion of all the matter in the universe.. how isnt that universal?


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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> The big bang was an outward explosion of all the matter in the universe.. how isnt that universal?



 The Big Bang is not even an explosion in the sense of a kaboom, it's the after effect of the universe coming into existence that was just merely what it was before it expanded to what it is now. It's not like actual timespace got created, it already was before the Big Bang. The real origin of the universe remains unknown.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

There are several things TTGL lacks feats in or defence against.

For example I can't recall a single Time Travel feat so naturally any time traveller worth his salt can beat him.

Sure tanking a Big Bang makes you universal in DC but it doesn't make you immune to hax.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> The big bang was an outward explosion of all the matter in the universe..



Actually it wasn't.


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## J★J♥ (Sep 17, 2014)

OP


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## Xiammes (Sep 17, 2014)

I never really understood where the bigbang =/= universal level argument comes from. We have more stupid shit we accept, like destroying the soul of a planet = its GBE.


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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

Easy, because most people don't even know what the Big Bang is at all, Xiammes. Did all those monster girls fry your brain?


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## Xiammes (Sep 17, 2014)

It just makes sense in a fictional setting, they are trying to portray the thing to be universal in energy, tanking it is akin to tanking all the energy in the universe at the moment of creation. OBD has never been accurate, so it seems silly to disregard "bigbang feats" in fiction.



> Xiammes. Did all those monster girls fry your brain?



I haven't even played part 3 yet


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

@Ampchu okay that makes sense actually.

@Danger doom they fought inbetween the tenth and eleveth dimension and in pyhsics duration(ie time) is te fourth dimension. so technically they exceeded time travel.


@xiammes well the sttgl tanked a beam that was stated to have the energy of the creation of the universe.. so it would have taken the full force of the big bang just concentrated into beam form.


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## Xiammes (Sep 17, 2014)

No one is really doubting STTGL being universal, the thing could be millions of times less dense then air and would still have more mass then the entire universe.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> @Ampchu okay that makes sense actually.
> 
> @Danger doom they fought inbetween the tenth and eleveth dimension and in pyhsics duration(ie time) is te fourth dimension. so technically they exceeded time travel.
> 
> ...



They fought in another dimension, and no it doesn't make them immune to time travel.
Especially if the person goes back to before they even discovered GL.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Hmm what do you guys consider the uppwr limit for universals?

N Danger doom.. whoever goes back in time is just going through the fourth dimension to get to that point.. and since simon could travel to inbetween the tenth and eleveth dimension he exceeds this.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

The energy needed to destroy a universe > The Big Bang.
The energy of the creation of the universe was 4e68 Joules, the mass-energy of the observable universe.

However to destroy the universe, because of the fact that the universe has expanded to a much larger size and you need to be able to produce more energy so that the energy can expand past the empty void and reach the edge of the universe. I think it was calced by someone here at something like Xe77 Joules.

I tend to think of "Big Bang Level" as Low Universal, the energy needed to create a universe (not actually the Big Bang but the energy of universal creation.) whereas destroying all matter in the universe would be Mid Universal.

EDIT: All of this is based on the observable universe obviously, we don't know the full extents of the universe as of yet.


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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

Usually destroying or creating the actual spacetime of the entire universe is regarded above manipulating it or the Big Bang.


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## Tacocat (Sep 17, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> For example I can't recall a single Time Travel feat so naturally any time traveller worth his salt can beat him.



Uh, no, Chouginga Gurren Lagann opened up an innumerable amount of portals ranging across space-time while battling the Ashtanga.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Cool thanks guys.


If you dont mind me askimg..what are some animes/shows that have people at these levels?


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Cool thanks guys.
> 
> 
> If you dont mind me askimg..what are some animes/shows that have people at these levels?


Ones with Universal+ characters? The Anime I know of on that level are:
Saint Seiya
Demonbane
Slayers
Digimon
Pok?mon? (Was that actually in the show or just in other continuities?)
Anime Sailor Moon (Maybe, There hasn't actually been much debate on it)
Puella Magi Madoka Magia
Tenchi Muyo

The other Western show I know of on that level is Doctor Who, although I admit I don't know much about them. There are probably some toonforce western verses that strong.

In no particular order.


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## Xiammes (Sep 17, 2014)

> Pok?mon? (Was that actually in the show or just in other continuities?)



Dialga and Palkia created a universe in the anime.

Video game wise there is also Katamari, the King of all the Cosmos has several different ways to destroy the universe or create it.


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

Actually it depends some beings can go to end of time and exist within it.

I highly doubt STTGL will be above Time Trapper for example.


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## Louis Cyphre (Sep 17, 2014)

Lots of beings can beat STTGL quite easily.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Video game wise there is also Katamari, the King of all the Cosmos has several different ways to destroy the universe or create it.


Oh, I thought he was asking for just Shows on that level. If it's just anything on that level then there is a bunch more that could be bought up.


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## Xiammes (Sep 17, 2014)

Imperator100 said:


> Oh, I thought he was asking for just Shows on that level. If it's just anything on that level then there is a bunch more that could be bought up.



Well technically Demonbane is a game, so is the pokemon series.


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Ill give some of those a watch.. and digimon is universal level eh? i would have never gueesed.

also which series of tenchi muyo would that be? ive seen the gxp or whatever series but the sttgl would rape that whole series shit from what i can tell.


also danger doom if someome can go to the end of time and existing within it should be either exsisting in the fourth dimension or fifth..simon could travel and exist in dimensions well beyond this.

thanks for the answers though everyone!


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## SSMG (Sep 17, 2014)

Imperator100 said:


> Oh, I thought he was asking for just Shows on that level. If it's just anything on that level then there is a bunch more that could be bought up.



Yeah i was asking for just shows/movies so i can watch em


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## Tacocat (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Ill give some of those a watch.. and digimon is universal level eh? i would have never gueesed.



Digimon's got scores of universals, actually, and several multiversals. It's not at all conservative with its powerlevels. It even shows some of these universals in the OG anime you've probably watched once or twice--Apocalymon, Susanoomon, Yggdrasil, etc.


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## Imperator100 (Sep 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Ill give some of those a watch.. and digimon is universal level eh? i would have never gueesed.
> 
> also which series of tenchi muyo would that be? ive seen the gxp or whatever series but the sttgl would rape that whole series shit from what i can tell.



Yep Digimon has a lot of universal to universal+ characters, even some multiversals. The villain of the first series, Apocalymon, was going to destroy two universes with his suicide attack.

I don't know bout Tenchi Muyo, I just know about the one from what I've read here but apparently they are megaversal, if I understand right.


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## Tacocat (Sep 17, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> Actually it depends some beings can go to end of time and exist within it.
> 
> I highly doubt STTGL will be above Time Trapper for example.



A little more exclusive than "any time-traveler worth his salt".


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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> A little more exclusive than "any time-traveler worth his salt".



Don't hate the player hate the game


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## Crimson King (Sep 17, 2014)




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## Nep Heart (Sep 17, 2014)

Hell, I'll just throw in an example even if it is overkill...


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## Crimson King (Sep 17, 2014)




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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)




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## Huey Freeman (Sep 17, 2014)

In case you were wondering yes that is The DC Trinity or should I say Cosmic Trinity the three of them can reality warp on a universal scale.


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## Merlight (Sep 17, 2014)

*Link Removed*


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

Imperator100 said:


> Ones with Universal+ characters? The Anime I know of on that level are:
> Saint Seiya
> Demonbane
> Slayers
> ...


A few more anime/manga

Akira
Mega Man NT Warrior
Project A-Ko
Project Arms
Umineko
Vampire Hunter D
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
Yu-Gi-Oh
Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood if you take Truth's words about him being one with the universe seriously

Could be wrong about some of these since I am going off hearsay somewhat.


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## Azzuri (Sep 18, 2014)

How would Asura fare against him?


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## Nep Heart (Sep 18, 2014)

The one from Asura's Wrath? The whole verse would get roflstomped by STTGL, let alone Asura himself.


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## shade0180 (Sep 18, 2014)

So no one have mentioned Chrono Trigger/Cross..


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> So no one have mentioned Chrono Trigger/Cross..



If I was naming video games here I could be here all day. However only Dream Devourer is that strong iirc.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 18, 2014)

Any multiversal .


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## Freddy Mercury (Sep 18, 2014)

Ajimu solos.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 18, 2014)

i missed you freedie


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## Freddy Mercury (Sep 18, 2014)

I missed me too


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## shade0180 (Sep 18, 2014)

Freddie. Where have you been?


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## scerpers (Sep 18, 2014)

great thread


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Sep 18, 2014)

Wait, are people saying the big bang isn't universal here? Sure, it depends how you define universal, but I think that defining universal in a way that excludes the big bang is a little silly.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Sep 18, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Akira
> Project Arms



Pretty sure they are planet-level


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## SSMG (Sep 18, 2014)

Hmm i just rewatched the last few episodes of ttgl.. a few feats people.may not have noticed ...simon was able to escape a indefinite mulitdimensional labyrith solely through his will.  His weaker gurren was able to hit all points along the time axis. and the final explosion caused the energy that was maintaining the universe in between dimensions that they fought in to vanish. And this universe was inbetween dimensions much higher than our own so itd take.much more energy to destroy that universe than our own.

Now imma watch some of those shows you guys mentioned to see how they stack up.


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## Galo de Lion (Sep 18, 2014)

Giygas, Machine Ultimate Intelligence, Seiya Zeus, Anti-Monitor, etc


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## Volt manta (Sep 18, 2014)

SSMG said:


> Hmm i just rewatched the last few episodes of ttgl.. a few feats people.may not have noticed ...simon was able to escape a indefinite mulitdimensional labyrith solely through his will.  His weaker gurren was able to hit all points along the time axis. and the final explosion caused the energy that was maintaining the universe in between dimensions that they fought in to vanish. And this universe was inbetween dimensions much higher than our own so itd take.much more energy to destroy that universe than our own.
> 
> Now imma watch some of those shows you guys mentioned to see how they stack up.



Against 90% of these characters, it doesn't really change a damn thing.
I think Lucifer Morningstar and Michael should go on this list, as well as the GEB, although none of them really want to waste their time with this shit.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Pretty sure they are planet-level



idk about Project Arms, but at the end of the Akira manga, Akira & Tetsuo created a universal blast.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

Couldn't Goku IT into the cockpits of the pilots and kill them? 
That is, assuming he doesn't get speedblitzed to hell and back (as he probably would be).


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## Xiammes (Sep 18, 2014)

Technically he could, but pilot reaction speed for Gurren Lagann pilots have been under debate for years.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

STTGL vs a normal human would be kinda funny - with a speed equal clause. 
If STTGL was only allowed to move at human speeds, then it would take it aeons to throw a single punch


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## Katsuargi (Sep 18, 2014)

I'd imagine Abstracts wouldn't have much of a problem, like the Endless from Vertigo.

Dream puts the pilots to sleep, etc.


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## AngryHeretic (Sep 18, 2014)

I wouldn't say Akira can beat him. It isn't confirmed that Akira started another universe per se, at least not in the movie canon (haven't read the manga) and in his initial explosion all he did was wipe out a city. Even then, the attack took several minutes to execute. STTGL should annihilate him in the time frame.

But yeah, plenty of anime/manga can do it. We'd be here all day if we were naming/debating video games that could do it.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

SSBMonado said:


> Couldn't Goku IT into the cockpits of the pilots and kill them?
> That is, assuming he doesn't get speedblitzed to hell and back (as he probably would be).



Not at all. He needs a ki source to lock onto first of all, and it's debatable whether anybody in STTGL would even have one. Furthermore, STTGL only needs to flick him and is so enormous that Goku would need prior knowledge to even realize that STTGL was an opponent and not a giant stellar object. Also the pilots are indeed superhuman, it's stated that they evolved beyond being merely human.


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## Xiammes (Sep 18, 2014)

> Not at all. He needs a ki source to lock onto first of all, and it's debatable whether anybody in STTGL would even have one.



Energy equalization, the thing is giving out massive energy, wouldn't be hard at all to sense him. If this was a OBD match, one would assume that all participants know who they are fighting.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Not at all. He needs a ki source to lock onto first of all, and it's debatable whether anybody in STTGL would even have one. Furthermore, STTGL only needs to flick him and is so enormous that Goku would need prior knowledge to even realize that STTGL was an opponent and not a giant stellar object. Also the pilots are indeed superhuman, it's stated that they evolved beyond being merely human.




Don't see a reason why they shouldn't have ki. Ki isn't something specific like Haki that you have to train to possess. Every living thing has it, which should include people from the TTGL verse, too

Secondly... really? Is DBZ regarded as so weak now that just having evolved to being superhuman means they can defend themselves against Goku?
Sorry, but unless you can give me some actual feats for the TTGL cast, I'm not buying that Goku couldn't finger flick them into oblivion like everything else that's remotely human.

I suppose the rest depends on the circumstances of the battle.
If the mindset is bloodlusted, then Goku gets speedblitzed
If the mindset is IC and Goku starts on earth, then Goku wins because STTGL wouldn't crush earth to get to Goku, giving him enough time to sense out the pilots and IT to them.


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## Gallavant (Sep 18, 2014)

SSBMonado said:


> Secondly... really? Is DBZ regarded as so weak now that just having evolved to being superhuman means they can defend themselves against Goku?





			
				SSBMonado said:
			
		

> I'm not buying that Goku couldn't finger flick them into oblivion like everything else that's remotely human.





+



= Dead Goku


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## Nep Heart (Sep 18, 2014)

Yeah, nobody rational is going to agree that anyone from Dragon Ball had a chance against STTGL. There is also the question is if equalization still will not help if STTGL is an enormous manifestation of Spiral Energy and would make it implausible for Goku to pinpoint the pilots anyway. Plus, I do recall Simon fisticuffing with the fucking Anti-Spiral himself at some point, who Goku has even less of a chance against.


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## Gallavant (Sep 18, 2014)

[YOUTUBE]Okco7saRXic[/YOUTUBE]

4:16 Building size Gurren Lagann breaks apart massively multi-galaxy sized+ drill and the pilot (Simon) likely reacted to it once it was within kilometer to possibly hundred meter range.
5:35 Simon fist fights the Antispiral


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

Ampchu said:


> Yeah, nobody rational is going to agree that anyone from Dragon Ball had a chance against STTGL. There is also the question is if equalization still will not help if STTGL is an enormous manifestation of Spiral Energy and would make it implausible for Goku to pinpoint the pilots anyway. Plus, I do recall Simon fisticuffing with the fucking Anti-Spiral himself at some point, who Goku has even less of a chance against.




Do we even know what level the anti spiral is at without any mechs? 
And obviously I'm not saying Goku could beat STTGL. That's absurd. My only argument is that he could bullshit a victory by attacking the pilots instead.
STTGL being one huge clump of spiral energy is a good point, though


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## Nep Heart (Sep 18, 2014)

The Anti-Spiral pilots a mecha to _hold back_ so it can play on the Gurren Lagann crew's level and beat them at their own game. It's very, very strongly implied the Anti-Spiral is above the power of its own mecha given the feats and backstory of the Anime itself.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

I was about to ask how in that case Simon got strong enough to trade blows with him. Then I remembered that the answer would probably be "because that's how team Gurren rolls" (Not that that's a bad explanation given the theme of the show, mind you)

OK, I concede


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Energy equalization, the thing is giving out massive energy, wouldn't be hard at all to sense him. If this was a OBD match, one would assume that all participants know who they are fighting.


Well yeah there's always that, but the pilots are literally lightyears away from him, it will be too late before he gets a chance to sense them anyways, not to mention that equalizing spiral power to ki makes STTGL one huge clump where it's impossible to pinpoint the pilots.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 18, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Well yeah there's always that, but the pilots are literally lightyears away from him, it will be too late before he gets a chance to sense them anyways, not to mention that equalizing spiral power to ki makes STTGL one huge clump where it's impossible to pinpoint the pilots.




Not that it matters now since I already conceded, but Goku can IT across dimensions. I don't think light years would provided that much of a problem.


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## Xiammes (Sep 18, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Well yeah there's always that, but the pilots are literally lightyears away from him, it will be too late before he gets a chance to sense them anyways, not to mention that equalizing spiral power to ki makes STTGL one huge clump where it's impossible to pinpoint the pilots.



Maybe you are not familiar with a spiral, but it has its starting source, Goku was able to track down Namek and Earth from Namek.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 18, 2014)

SSBMonado said:


> I was about to ask how in that case Simon got strong enough to trade blows with him. Then I remembered that the answer would probably be "because that's how team Gurren rolls" (Not that that's a bad explanation given the theme of the show, mind you)
> 
> OK, I concede



Simon's drill was strong enough to kill Anti-Spiral because a multiverse was absorbed into it.



			
				o3o said:
			
		

> *Spoiler*: _Multiverse absorbed_





			
				o3o said:
			
		

> Let’s go through what happens, shall we?
> They are in the multiverse labryinth.
> Simon raises his hand.
> Yellow columns of light, each showing an alternate universe, swirl around.
> ...


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## Byrd (Sep 18, 2014)

Any witch in Umineko can do the job


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## TehChron (Sep 20, 2014)

Musou Rosa could manage it

Gold Bars and a Fountain Pen > STTGL


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> Simon's drill was strong enough to kill Anti-Spiral because a multiverse was absorbed into it.



Wait. Simon manipulated a multiverse.

This is kind of important


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 20, 2014)

No.

He's talking about the virtual reality Simon and the rest of the team were put inside to stop them from getting to the true Anti-Spiral home.


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> No.
> 
> He's talking about the virtual reality Simon and the rest of the team were put inside to stop them from getting to the true Anti-Spiral home.



Er...yes? Each one of those realities was an entire, separate universe. The lights that Simon manipulated were Simon's alternate realities.


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

Hmm, never mind. Dude was wrong. It's possible the lights were Simon's memories, and not the alternate universes.

Or maybe not. One of them is a frame from the beginning with Garlock Simon, another is of Simon almost making out with Leeron, another looks like Simon as a superhero, and the focal one contained Kamina and the rest of the dead Dai-Gurren members (can't be a memory if Kamina was talking about the present situation). And Kamina implied he was from one of the alternate universes.


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## shade0180 (Sep 20, 2014)

Or they just got mind fuck (They are shown still sitting inside Gurren Lagnn) and Kamina is just a realization of Simon's will to connect to the real world.  Basically a process in which is done by Simon's will which uses Kamina as an Avatar to make his real self realize the truth.


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## Yagami1211 (Sep 20, 2014)

Shukutaihou, fire !

Shu Shirakawa talked. TTGL died.

[youtube]1cqp3W-b12k[/youtube]


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 20, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> Or they just got mind fuck (They are shown still sitting inside Gurren Lagnn) and Kamina is just a realization of Simon's will to connect to the real world.  Basically a process in which is done by Simon's will which uses Kamina as an Avatar to make his real self realize the truth.



If they were just being mindfucked and those were not separate universes but rather illusions all inside their heads, then why could Simon cross into the dimensions that his friends were in? And why would the all knowing Anti-Spiral refer to those as universes and call it a multiversal labyrinth? It also makes sense that Simon absorbed a multiverse into his drill to be able to kill a universal being with it, hell his drill was the only one that could stand up to Anti-Spiral's.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Sep 20, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> Shukutaihou, fire !
> 
> Shu Shirakawa talked. TTGL died.
> 
> [youtube]1cqp3W-b12k[/youtube]



I only saw galaxy level in the video ... Have any other ?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 20, 2014)

Danger Doom said:


> There are several things TTGL lacks feats in or defence against.
> 
> For example I can't recall a single Time Travel feat so naturally any time traveller worth his salt can beat him.
> 
> Sure tanking a Big Bang makes you universal in DC but it doesn't make you immune to hax.



chouginga gurren lagann can attack targets both at the past and future as long as the targets are in its locality


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 20, 2014)

Tacocat said:


> Er...yes? Each one of those realities was an entire, separate universe. The lights that Simon manipulated were Simon's alternate realities.



...

oh boy you buy into the "anti spirals made an entire actual multiverse to trap team gurren in"


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## shade0180 (Sep 20, 2014)

ClassicGameGuys said:


> If they were just being mindfucked and those were not separate universes but rather illusions all inside their heads, then why could Simon cross into the dimensions that his friends were in? And why would the all knowing Anti-Spiral refer to those as universes and call it a multiversal labyrinth? It also makes sense that Simon absorbed a multiverse into his drill to be able to kill a universal being with it, hell his drill was the only one that could stand up to Anti-Spiral's.



Er yes because dream walking is uncommon in anime and comics when a psychic is involve... right...  

I can give a lot of example of this if you want...

 the most common is a group of people is mind/dream fucked 1 of them broke it and entered someone else mind to break said person of the dream and so on.  Which basically the same case here.


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> ...
> 
> oh boy you buy into the "anti spirals made an entire actual multiverse to trap team gurren in"



You...have a reason not to? And the Anti-Spiral didn't make the universes, they trapped Dai-Gurren in the labyrinth and the universes were created on their own accord.



shade0180 said:


> Or they just got mind fuck (They are shown still sitting inside Gurren Lagnn) and Kamina is just a realization of Simon's will to connect to the real world.  Basically a process in which is done by Simon's will which uses Kamina as an Avatar to make his real self realize the truth.



Them sitting inside Gurren Lagann is another reality in itself. We see this when Boota warps out of this universe and Simon bypasses it entirely to reach the Anti-Spiral. If Kamina were just snapping Simon out of a basic illusion instead of making him realize he was in an entirely separate universe, Simon would have awoken inside Chouginga Gurren Lagann.

So are we just going to ignore the narrative, or..?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 20, 2014)

Besides the fact that we are shown all of the team sitting there with blank looks on their faces when Boota evolves?

Besides the fact that it makes no contextual sense for the Anti-Spirals to have such a capability?

Besides the fact that TTGL later has huge trouble absorbing the energy of a "mere" big bang?


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## SSBMonado (Sep 20, 2014)

If the anti spiral was multiversal, you'd think he'd just create a universe without spiral energy and be done with it. He'd also have no reason to be afraid of the spiral races bringing about the end of the universe if he could just clap his hands and make a new one.


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> Besides the fact that we are shown all of the team sitting there with blank looks on their faces when Boota evolves?


Which is an entirely separate universe, as I delineated right above your post. Why do you think Boota was still a pig-mole in the finale?



> Besides the fact that it makes no contextual sense for the Anti-Spirals to have such a capability?


What? In a series whose slogan is literally fuck everything, we do what we want? It's not the Anti-Spiral's ability; they don't manually create the universes.



> Besides the fact that TTGL later has huge trouble absorbing the energy of a "mere" big bang?


Hmm, I'll give you outlier.

Albeit, we're also looking at the guy who was able to whip around a 4.2e72kg drill and convert it to pure energy.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 20, 2014)

considering the drill is a) made of energy and b) has a giant fucking face sticking out of it I don't think I should have to tell you how intellectually dishonest it is to stick a number on.


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## Ulti (Sep 20, 2014)

John Cena.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 20, 2014)

Jackie Chan. But only if he doesn't want to fight.


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## Tacocat (Sep 20, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> considering the drill is a) made of energy and b) has a giant fucking face sticking out of it I don't think I should have to tell you how intellectually dishonest it is to stick a number on.



I guess I was erroneously under the impression that it was solid matter at that time. That's not the point, though; TTGL itself would mass quadrillions of times the theoretical mass of the universe.


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 20, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> ...
> 
> oh boy you buy into the "anti spirals made an entire actual multiverse to trap team gurren in"



Nobody is saying that Anti-Spiral created the multiverse just to trap Team Gurren, stop putting words in our mouths thanks you very much.

The universes already existed in the first place, the Anti-Spiral just transferred them there. Also, I think that this might come in handy:



> in addition to the other feats, dimensional membranes were mentioned - I believe around the arc-gurren lagann's debut - which, in combination with the fact that the earlier collection of universes was stored in a single point - Nia's ring - is proof that the TTGL verse runs off of M-theory, according to which, at the tenth dimension and beyond, a multiverse is a single point.
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...





shade0180 said:


> Er yes because dream walking is uncommon in anime and comics when a psychic is involve... right...
> 
> I can give a lot of example of this if you want...
> 
> the most common is a group of people is mind/dream fucked 1 of them broke it and entered someone else mind to break said person of the dream and so on.  Which basically the same case here.



Well if you want to completely ignore the narrative and pretend that those dimensions were actually just dreams instead of alternate universes because it fits your pre conceived notions of a character's power then cool.



Nightbringer said:


> Besides the fact that it makes no contextual sense for the Anti-Spirals to have such a capability?



Transferring somebody's soul/consciousness/whatever to a parallel dimension makes no sense for a universal reality warping being?



> Besides the fact that TTGL later has huge trouble absorbing the energy of a "mere" big bang?



Nobody claimed TTGL was multiversal either [or at least, I did not] only that Simon's drill itself is. That's why all of the mechs fall miserably against Anti-Spiral's drill but then Simon's deals the finishing blow despite him being in the weakest mech.


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## Qinglong (Sep 20, 2014)

It only needs to be "unquntifiably above universal" to take him out really


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## Vivi Ornitier (Sep 20, 2014)

Qinglong said:


> It only needs to be "unquntifiably above universal" to take him out really



Pretty much this.


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## Monna (Sep 20, 2014)

Byrd said:


> Any witch in Umineko can do the job


Maria solos


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