# Old garp vs......



## mr sean66 (Aug 9, 2013)

Old garp vs

1: the post skip strawhat crew
2: law, ceasar, Monet, vergo, yeti cool brothers, punk hazard dragon.
3:Hancock , jinbie , moria , crocodile
4: jozu, vergo


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## Zorofangirl24 (Aug 9, 2013)

Loses scenario one


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## Kid (Aug 9, 2013)

stomps everyting


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## RF (Aug 9, 2013)

Jozu gives him a hell of a fight, others are hardly relevant.


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## B Rabbit (Aug 9, 2013)

Garp stomps all.

Last might be harder, but I'm sure Garp wins.


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## Bitty (Aug 9, 2013)

put him against Jozu, Hancock, Law & Caesar.
Jozu at 10m, Hancock at 30m, Law at 40m, & Caesar at 50m.

then he has a good fight on his hands.


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## RF (Aug 9, 2013)

The trio would effectively hold Garp off and Caesar would suffocate them all.

Stomp match-up.


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## Goomoonryong (Aug 9, 2013)

To be honest we really don't know the M3 or any of the SH's full power since the TS so it's really hard to be certain but ill give Garp the benefit of the doubt, he beats the others without a doubt tho.


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## Bitty (Aug 9, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> The trio would effectively hold Garp off and Caesar would suffocate them all.
> 
> Stomp match-up.



:ignoramus


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## Halcyon (Aug 9, 2013)

Garp clears with a bloody fist and a chuckle.


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## trance (Aug 9, 2013)

> 1: the post skip strawhat crew







> 2: law, ceasar, Monet, vergo, yeti cool brothers, punk hazard dragon.







> 3:Hancock , jinbie , moria , crocodile







> 4: jozu, vergo



Only somewhat decent matchup. Vergo is a non-factor and Garp beats Jozu after a fairly hard fight.


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## mr sean66 (Aug 9, 2013)

1: how the hell can garp fight the monster trio  while dealing with random arms trying to soffacate him and prevent his movements . Random lasers . Brooks hax . With the weakling trio to back them up. 
 It won't be easy
2:law and ceasar have very hax abilitys. With a snow logia and a couple monsters to back them up garp will have trouble
3: 4 fucking warlords 3 Which have hax 1 hit kill abilitys

4: how the hell is garp supposed to break diamonds reinforced with top tier haki with his bare fists? Vergo can give garp some extra trouble as well

IMO people overate garp wayyyyt to much .


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## Halcyon (Aug 9, 2013)

And yet you created this thread.


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## trance (Aug 9, 2013)

mr sean66 said:


> how the hell is garp supposed to break diamonds reinforced with top tier haki with his bare fists? Vergo can give garp some extra trouble as well.



Garp covers his fist with top tier Haki and breaks through Jozu's diamond. Garp kills Vergo with a middle finger to the brain.


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## Lawliet (Aug 9, 2013)

Garp Literally stomps all scenarios except the one where he has to face both Jozu and Vergo. He takes out Vergo pretty fast, then fights Jozu for a while and achieve victory.


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## Atlantic Storm (Aug 10, 2013)

Based on hype, Garp should easily win everything up to maybe scenario three. The Strawhats, while obviously very strong, are still rookie pirates in the New World who still have a lot to grow, while Garp is a seasoned pirate whose name is apparently enough to ward off big name pirates and is hyped up to be the former rival of Gold Roger. There's also the fact that he was apparently nominated to be an Admiral multiple times, but declined only for the freedom associated with the Vice Admiral position. His feats don't do his hype or position in the manga justice. Manga portrayal ranks him far higher than all the Strawhats, and anybody who appeared in the Punk Hazard arc. Collectively, the Strawhats are far stronger than 'Team Punk Hazard' by a fair margin, so if Garp can beat them, why would the second team fare any better? Sure, they have Law, but Law's hax alone isn't going to be able to take on a seasoned Marine.

Scenario three is a bit harder, since Hancock is a pretty powerful pirate, but I'd probably place her at around current Luffy level strength, based on feats. Jinbei is reasonably strong, but Moria and Crocodile are way out of their weight class here. Moria especially, since he doesn't even have the logia abilities of Crocodile, or the same feats he does (this is the guy who got off paneled by Doflamingo because he was so useless the World Government didn't even want him any more). 

Last fight is considerably harder, given the type of opponents he's facing. Vergo's main shtick is his ridiculous durability, and Jozu's power is to turn into diamond. But, again, Garp's offensive power has ridiculous hype, so I don't think he would have too much difficulty taking down Vergo (though, this might just be me having a somewhat low opinion of him). Jozu, however, would be harder. He's a seasoned New World pirate and a high ranking member of Whitebeard's crew. But even considering this, pre-timeskip Aokiji dispatched of him fairly quickly. Fair enough, he was distracted, but the way it was drawn suggests that Jozu isn't really Admiral-level.

Mind, I technically have no feats to go by. Garp is pretty much a character still surrounded by hype, but that stature alone should suggest he's an extremely strong character, since we've yet to see the full extent of his abilities. His hype, however, should place him above all these characters.


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## Admiral Kizaru (Aug 10, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Jozu, however, would be harder. He's a seasoned New World pirate and a high ranking member of Whitebeard's crew. But even considering this, pre-timeskip Aokiji dispatched of him fairly quickly. Fair enough, he was distracted, but the way it was drawn suggests that Jozu isn't really Admiral-level.



Spot on. I hope more people on the OL finally start realising this instead of peddling their false inflated levels for the WB commanders.

Garp also easily punched Marco (who's allegedly meant to be superior to Jozu) so hard that he lost his phoenix form and suffered visible facial injuries. Just one punch did that ...... suffice to say neither Jozu or Marco can survive very long against him in that mood.





OT: Garp clears without too much trouble.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

Yes, punching an off-guard Marco and leaving him only with a bruise on his cheek is surely insanely impressive.

Lets also conveniently forget how he was capable of completely ignoring Kizaru's Yasakani No Magatama while in his phoenix form.  



> But even considering this, pre-timeskip Aokiji dispatched of him fairly quickly. Fair enough, he was distracted, but the way it was drawn suggests that Jozu isn't really Admiral-level.



I disagree. The way it was drawn, it clearly suggests that Jozu is up there. Whitebeard had a heart attack in the midst of battle, which led to both Jozu and Marco subsequently letting their guards down, giving a clear opening to their admiral opponents, and in Jozu's case, the admiral who was most well suited in passing his diamond defense. He could have just had them lose if they were so far below their opponents, but instead he went out of his way to emphasize their distractions, leading to their loss. 

However, if you're implying that Jozu is not on the level of the pre-skip trio, as in, equal to them, then I concede.


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## Shinthia (Aug 10, 2013)

1. Garp win
2. Garp win
3. Garp win

4. This 


&
diamond pieces diamond pieces everywhere


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Garp wins in all scenarios, Jozu might cause him some trouble, but far away from extreme difficulty.


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## Urouge (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Yes, punching an off-guard Marco and leaving him only with a bruise on his cheek is surely insanely impressive.
> 
> Lets also conveniently forget how he was capable of completely ignoring Kizaru's Yasakani No Magatama while in his phoenix form.
> 
> ...




the difference is that aokiji just got a bloody lip when he got hit by jozu while he was distrtacted. when the same thing happened the other way around jozu lost an arm and got frozen. aokiji beats him mid diff maximum.

none of the wb commanders where as strong as the admirals. marco was the closest.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

And that is relevant how ? Jozu is a brawler, Aokiji has an extremely hax Devil Fruit that can turn someone into a popsicle at touch. Of course Aokiji is going to be much, _much_ deadlier. 

Jozu can give the admirals high difficulty as well.


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> And that is relevant how ? Jozu is a brawler, Aokiji has an extremely hax Devil Fruit that can turn someone into a popsicle at touch. Of course Aokiji is going to be much, _much_ deadlier.
> 
> Jozu can give the admirals high difficulty as well.



Implying that Aokiji > Jozu because of the devil fruit difference? So they are pretty much equal in everything else?


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

Of course not, I just said it was a stupid argument because the fighters have completely different abilites.


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Of course not, I just said it was a stupid argument because the fighters have completely different abilites.



Well I agree, but after all doesn't every single fighter differ when it comes to their abilities? I don't mean in regard to being a swordsman/brawler/ranged fighter or whatever, my point is in One Piece every single devil fruit (ability) user differs so I guess that applies to every fight scenario, granted they are devil fruit users. 

In my opinion I think the difference in these abilities can be overcome by excelling in basic stats such durability, speed, physical strength and Haki. Thus, making devil fruit differences irrelevant, even when it comes to hax ones.

So hypothetically, if Aokiji were to have Jozu's fruit and vice versa, it would still be Aokiji>Jozu.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

One can deal with powerful Devil Fruits in combat , but the thing is that Jaws was completely distracted, thus giving the ice man a clear opening. Sure, one may argue that had it been someone like Garp, he wouldn't have gotten defeated immediately, but that's pretty much a shot in the dark.

How many chapters ago did we see Caesar Clown defeating several people much stronger than him via his devil fruit hax and an opening ? Zoro being defeated by 2 pathetically weak Jeti's ? Doflamingo  easily controlling the much physically stronger Jaws ? 

We've got plenty of cases where a said character defeats a much stronger person under the right circumstances. Why would Aokiji and Jaws be any different ? Aokiji is an admiral with speed, precision and deadliness of the highest class, and has been given a free shot, thus defeating him with a single attack, leading many people to conclude that the diamond man was "stomped". That's simply not the case. Prior to that instance, the two were matching each other perfectly equally, and the diamond man was, as far as we know, capable of dodging anything that was thrown at him, _until_ he was distracted. 

People making the argument that Aokiji is much, much stronger than Jaws because he was only left with a bloody lip after the latter attacked him, while, when vice versa happened, Aokiji permanently crippled him and brought him down for the remainder of the war is ridiculous. How the bloody hell does that makes sense ? How can anyone possibly compare a tackle to being frozen to the core ? Are we now supposed to see every solid top tier one shooting people when given an opening, regardless of their abilites ? 

Some people here just don't have a clue of what they're talking about.


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## Mihawk (Aug 10, 2013)

I don't think Garp caught Marco off guard.

Kizaru yes, and Aokiji to Jozu too.

But Garp was right in front of Marco lol. Marco was flying directly to the execution stage, where both Garp & Sengoku were standing. He just wanted to try to save Ace, despite the odds. He was fairly determined.

It's safe to say that Garp acted very quickly, and blitzed Marco.


OT: I think Garp clears all. 


I am currently still divided in whether Jozu is closer to Vista, or closer to Marco. When I first read the war, I certainly got the impression that he was closer to Marco than he was to Vista, but I'm not certain now.


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## Coruscation (Aug 10, 2013)

Marco wasn't expecting Garp to move in that situation. That's the only thing that makes any sense at all because otherwise it would mean that Marco was planning on taking on Garp and Sengoku at the same time yet was in truth so incompetent he couldn't even react to Garp alone. It's not a blindside but definitely an off-guard moment.


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## trance (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki always turning it into a "Admiral vs. WB commander" debate...


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

That is not the case at all. Other people do it, and I respond to them.


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## Shinthia (Aug 10, 2013)

Trance said:


> Sakazuki always turning it into a "Admiral vs. WB commander" debate...



yes, it all started about 1 or 2 weeks ago , he never recovered since that


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

And I won't stop until people start acknowledging their strength.


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## trance (Aug 10, 2013)

It's only Marco and Jozu that can for sure push an Admiral. I'm uncertain about Vista.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

He crossed blades evenly with Mihawk for a chapter, he should be able to give them something along the lines of low-mid difficulty.


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## jNdee~ (Aug 10, 2013)

How can put back your truthful beliefs my friend?


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> One can deal with powerful Devil Fruits in combat , but the thing is that Jaws was completely distracted, thus giving the ice man a clear opening. Sure, one may argue that had it been someone like Garp, he wouldn't have gotten defeated immediately, but that's pretty much a shot in the dark.
> 
> How many chapters ago did we see Caesar Clown defeating several people much stronger than him via his devil fruit hax and an opening ? Zoro being defeated by 2 pathetically weak Jeti's ? Doflamingo  easily controlling the much physically stronger Jaws ?



Fair enough, my argument wasn't about weaker people defeating stronger ones when given the right timing and hax devil fruits but that still is debatable.

The examples you gave are true but they aren't reliable to use when it comes to applying them to admiral level people. 

In my opinion at least, if someone like Aokiji/Akainu was against Caesar, given that they have no intellect about him whatsoever like in Luffy's case, they wouldn't mindlessly charge (even though they are monsters in every fighting stats/category) they would study the opponents abilities before charging (recklessly) and when they deal the final blow, they make sure that Caesar (or anyone) is completely knocked out/killed. Unlike Luffy who despite having knocked out Caesar who is much weaker, didn't make sure of  completely knocking out the latter. Unlike the other time when he used Grizzly Magnum and completely rendered Caesar immobilized. So in short, analyzing and preventing enemies getting the right chance is also a characteristic of the top tiers. I know that's part of Luffy's personality, carelessness that is, but I believe that Luffy has to stop being so carefree in any fight he picks up, in order to considered as a top tier.




> We've got plenty of cases where a said character defeats a much stronger person under the right circumstances. Why would Aokiji and Jaws be any different ? Aokiji is an admiral with speed, precision and deadliness of the highest class, and has been given a free shot, thus defeating him with a single attack, leading many people to conclude that the diamond man was "stomped". That's simply not the case.


I guess the keyword of the right circumstances you speak of is distraction *plus* completely being not on guard, what I mean is that even if something major is to happen and you get distracted by it, as a skilled fighter you should never let your guard down, I am pretty sure that Aokiji didn't, therefore the damage he took was less, another example is when he made a hole in his body (right after his "ice-arrows" attack) via his devil fruit to counter Whitebeard's Haki embed attack. In Jozu's case, he should of never let his guard knowing that someone as Aokiji is fighting him with the dreadful ability of freezing someone to death if they were to lose focus for a tiny fragment of a second. 



> People making the argument that Aokiji is much, much stronger than Jaws because he was only left with a bloody lip after the latter attacked him, while, when vice versa happened, Aokiji permanently crippled him and brought him down for the remainder of the war is ridiculous. How the bloody hell does that makes sense ? How can anyone possibly compare a tackle to being frozen to the core ? Are we now supposed to see every solid top tier one shooting people when given an opening, regardless of their abilites ?


Assuming that Aokiji is much much stronger than Jozu is wrong but the fact that former succeeded in reducing the damage received speaks for itself, if Aokiji were to let his guard (I am not talking about being distracted but rather not protecting his body with Haki, and yes you can say that this was not stated at all but its right to assume he did, you're in the middle of a war with freaking top tiers everywhere) he would have been crushed, and in Jozu's case he got completely frozen because protecting his body with Haki (while fighting and still keep on even while being distracted) is a must against an admiral such as Aokiji, now you can argue that WB used his devil fruit to break out of his frozen shell, now what about Doflamingo?


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## Vengeance (Aug 10, 2013)

what's the point of these character x vs dozen others threads


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## trance (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> He crossed blades evenly with Mihawk for a chapter, he should be able to give them something along the lines of low-mid difficulty.



"Low-mid" isn't pushing an Admiral. That basically just means he can avoid getting fodderized.

"Mid-high" or "high difficulty" is pushing someone.

@Dark

Did you just say that if Aokiji didn't cover his body with Haki, Jozu could crush him?


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Trance said:


> "Low-mid" isn't pushing an Admiral. That basically just means he can avoid getting fodderized.
> 
> "Mid-high" or "high difficulty" is pushing someone.
> 
> ...



Not exactly, but yes Aokiji surely was using Haki the whole time while fighting not necessary hardening, think of Hunter x Hunter; Nen, you have to cover your body with the right amount to defend an attack embed with Nen. I am saying that using Haki to counterattack/defend against an attack using Haki as well is something essential. Now don't get me wrong, Aokiji wouldn't be crushed because he would never do such a thing, not using Haki against a Haki attack in a fight (yes he was distracted but he was still on his guard).

Also you can't say that Jozu wasn't using Haki and was just using blunt force so why would Aokiji defend by using Haki as well in the first place, Aokiji is a logia-user after all.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

Dark said:


> -snip-



People getting caught off-guard in the One Piece universe is no rare occurrence. Akainu, one of the strongest people in the world, was distracted by Marco and subsequently caught off-guard by Whitebeard. 

Essentially, the same happened to Jozu. He momentarily glimpsed away at the thought of his brother being fatally struck, and Aokiji intervened. The only difference between the two scenarios is that Jozu was attacked by the worst person to be attacked by - Aokiji. Akainu sustained Whitebeard's earthquake because of his inhuman durability, but unfortunately, the same doesn't apply in Jozu's case. The iceman's fruit ignores any conventional durability, so the only thing the diamond man could have done is stand and watch as he gets turned into a popsicle, and I have a hard time believing that anyone in a similar scenario would avoid getting frozen.

The only argument one can make is that Jozu should not have gotten distracted, but that's not a flaw in his fighting style, but rather a characteristic, thus irrelevant in this discussion.




> now what about Doflamingo?



Doflamingo was aware of Aokiji's presence. The effort of killing a half dead Smoker is incomparable to the effort it takes to defend from a fighter of Aokiji's caliber.


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## trance (Aug 10, 2013)

Dark said:


> Not exactly, but yes Aokiji surely was using Haki the whole time while fighting not necessary hardening, think of Hunter x Hunter; Nen, you have to cover your body with the right amount to defend an attack embed with Nen. I am saying that using Haki to counterattack/defend against an attack using Haki as well is something essential. Now don't get me wrong, Aokiji wouldn't be crushed because he would never do such a thing, not using Haki against a Haki attack in a fight (yes he was distracted but he was still on his guard).
> 
> Also you can't say that Jozu wasn't using Haki and was just using blunt force so why would Aokiji defend by using Haki as well in the first place, Aokiji is a logia-user after all.



I get what you're saying. It's similar to how cops have bullet-proof vests on for when they're distracted and get shot.

But even without Haki, Aokiji should have top tier physical stats, including durability and endurance.


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

> The iceman's fruit ignores any conventional durability, so the only thing the diamond man could have done is stand and watch as he gets turned into a popsicle, and I have a hard time believing that anyone in a similar scenario would avoid getting frozen.



Exactly, against Aokiji getting distracted means losing. 



> The only argument one can make is that Jozu should not have gotten distracted, but that's not a flaw in his fighting style, but rather a characteristic, thus irrelevant in this discussion.


Yes, Jozu getting distracted is irrelevant to his actual power/fighting style but still Jozu was aware of Aokiji's presence, he was fighting him head on so even while getting distracted, why couldn't he manage breaking out of the ice?



> Doflamingo was aware of Aokiji's presence. The effort of killing a half dead Smoker is incomparable to the effort it takes to defend from a fighter of Aokiji's caliber.


Yes he was, but I can't understand what you meant by mentioning him needing less effort to kill Smoker, my point is that he was still distracted/busy killing Smoker in spite of him noticing Aokiji's presence. Again why did Doflamingo manage what he did?


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Trance said:


> I get what you're saying. It's similar to how cops have bullet-proof vests on for when they're distracted and get shot.
> 
> But even without Haki, Aokiji should have top tier physical stats, including durability and endurance.



I guess the Haki is need to cancel out Jozu's Haki, also Jozu's fruit adds more physical strength to his attacks stacked upon his already top tier physical stats or at least that's what I would like to think.


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

> Yes, Jozu getting distracted is irrelevant to his actual power/fighting style but still Jozu was aware of Aokiji's presence, he was fighting him head on so even while getting distracted, why couldn't he manage breaking out of the ice?



Jozu's focus was entirely on Marco, which is why he couldn't have protected himself against Aokiji. I assume you're going in the "he was weaker, that's why he lost" direction, and I do admit that he is weaker, but I doubt that anyone could have protected themselves under those exact circumstances. 



> Yes he was, but I can't understand what you meant by mentioning him needing less effort to kill Smoker, my point is that he was still distracted/busy killing Smoker in spite of him noticing Aokiji's presence. Again why did Doflamingo manage what he did?



He knew Aokiji was there. He was by any means ready to counter whatever Aokiji tried, aka, he was _on-guard_, which is why he was capable of defending himself. It should also be noted that the attack used against Doflamingo was considerably weaker than the one used at Jozu.


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## Dark (Aug 10, 2013)

Sakazuki said:


> Jozu's focus was entirely on Marco, which is why he couldn't have protected himself against Aokiji. I assume you're going in the "he was weaker, that's why he lost" direction, and I do admit that he is weaker, but I doubt that anyone could have protected themselves under those exact circumstances.



I guess we have agreed then. It was Jozu's fault to completely shift his concentration on Marco, though I think Whitebeard and the likes could pull it off. 



> He knew Aokiji was there. He was by any means ready to counter whatever Aokiji tried, aka, he was _on-guard_, which is why he was capable of defending himself. It should also be noted that the attack used against Doflamingo was considerably weaker than the one used at Jozu.


Is it because at the war Aokiji was attacking with intention to kill whereas against Dof he used it in a way to say back off? Well I myself think so, but was there any difference in thickness of the ice illustrated?


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## RF (Aug 10, 2013)

> Is it because at the war Aokiji was attacking with intention to kill whereas against Dof he used it in a way to say back off? Well I myself think so, but was there any difference in thickness of the ice illustrated?



I assume that the attack used on Doflamingo is easier to break out of, seeing how it was a casual flashfreeze from afar, and the admiral didn't even bother to take his hands out of his pockets.


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