# Shanks Vs Mihawk



## Amol (Sep 27, 2019)

Hey don't look at me. Someone was going to do it and I at least didn't try to pretend topic was something different when it really was just Shanks Vs Mihawk. 
So Mihawk has never ever fought Yonkou Shanks. He only fought with Shanks who was not big enough of Pirate given WG gave no shit about his where about which they will now give. It means Mihawk really has no idea how strong Shanks is. 
So what do you all think about this development? 
Let the bloodbath begin.


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## Grinningfox (Sep 27, 2019)

I’ve been waiting on this thread to be made after the revelations from the latest chapter.

Excited to see the squirming from  Mihawk fans


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk = Shanks

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mariko (Sep 27, 2019)

Locked thread in:

3

2

1

...


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2019)

when was the last time mihawk fought shanks?

im pretty rusty on my one piece lore after dropping it


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## Grinningfox (Sep 27, 2019)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> when was the last time mihawk fought shanks?
> 
> im pretty rusty on my one piece lore after dropping it



before romance dawn I think


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## Kinjin (Sep 27, 2019)

Marie said:


> Locked thread in:
> 
> 3
> 
> ...


Nope. Just keeping it civil is all we ask.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kai (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk is not and was never Yonko level as I have always believed since day one.

Outright stated they can't use Warlords against the Emperors. They would at least hesitate or reconsider to say this if they had a Yonko level as a Warlord.

Mihawk being Yonko level makes absolutely zero sense considering the war against Whitebeard. The Marines had him on their side yet never gave him that level of treatment or consideration *as a Yonko equivalent as part of their forces.
*
As you said Mihawk never fought Yonko Shanks, outright confirmed this chapter.

Shanks > Mihawk can't be more obvious in this day and age.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Six (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks obviously, but Mihawk would still give him a terrific fight.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 27, 2019)

Both are swordsmen while 1 has the world's strongest swordsman title and he is the weaker one?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2019)

i honestly don't think oda would just be like "yeah all that greatest swordsman shit was just a misunderstanding and mihawk's been sitting on a false throne" or shanks is actually a kickboxheadbutt haki man

but who knows

if shanks is comparable to kaido/big-mom who can effortlessly destroy 1st/2nd division commanders (one while drunk and other hakiless) then mihawk's performance against vista looks abysmal, unless just like against luffy he was massively holding back and just fucking around or was nerfed

and zoro has this guy as his end goal, so he would be yonko level if we consider them equal? What if mihawk loses to someone else and is replaced by someone stronger, who then zoro would beat... so mihawk(=shanks)<new guy<zoro (above shanks)? Like for this situation, mihawk might be admiral level, so mihawk(admiral)<new guy<zoro (above admiral---possible yonko)

And here's something radical, what if shanks also just admiral level, maybe a bit higher than the strongest admiral, but not  as comparable to kaido/big mom/whitebeard?


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## Mariko (Sep 27, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> Nope. Just keeping it civil is all we ask.



No doubt such a thread will be civil and else...


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## Yuji (Sep 27, 2019)

Isn't it strange that Mihawk is supposedly looking for a great challenge but he passed on 2 swordsmen during the war... Vista and Shanks.

Apparently Mr.1 and transvestites are worth defeating but not a Yonko or a hyped commander.


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## charles101 (Sep 27, 2019)

I'll go with equal until we'll see feats


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## Kai (Sep 27, 2019)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> i honestly don't think oda would just be like "yeah all that greatest swordsman shit was just a misunderstanding and mihawk's been sitting on a false throne" or shanks is actually a kickboxheadbutt haki man


Yes but at the same I seriously doubt Oda is thinking about Mihawk *every time* x character uses or picks up a sword like overbearing Mihawk fans seem to believe.

As soon as one even so much as touches a sword may their status and power be completely defined and consumed by Mihawk...


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## Dunno (Sep 27, 2019)

1. Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. 
2. Shanks is most likely a swordsman. 

 => 

Mihawk is most likely stronger than Shanks.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Amol (Sep 27, 2019)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> i honestly don't think oda would just be like "yeah all that greatest swordsman shit was just a misunderstanding and mihawk's been sitting on a false throne" or shanks is actually a kickboxheadbutt haki man
> 
> but who knows
> 
> ...


You are basically arguing
Yonkou >> Admiral you know that right?


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> Yes but at the same I seriously doubt Oda is thinking about Mihawk *every time* x character uses or picks up a sword like overbearing Mihawk fans seem to believe.
> 
> As soon as one even so much as touches a sword may their status and power be completely defined and consumed by Mihawk...



sure, i don't think someone like big mom using a sword hat makes her a swordsman, but i think shanks has been described as such


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks is probably stronger or they are equal. Shanks has just had much better portrayal. I can never imagine Vista being able to stall Shanks. We saw what BM and Kaidou did to top Commanders. Shanks is not weaker than either of them given their stalemate.

People want to cling to the title but how do you get a title? Presumably by beating someone for it. How do we know Mihawk is stronger if he refuses to fight Shanks and had never even crossed blades with Vista? Take Shanks out of  the equation and where do you rank Mihawk? Mihawk's hype depends on Shanks being a swordsman and Mihawk being stronger. Without Shanks he is at best admiral level (Stronger than Fuji).  You should remember that these titles are in-verse perceptions. We saw it with Demaro Black.

Reactions: Like 3


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2019)

Amol said:


> You are basically arguing
> Yonkou >> Admiral you know that right?



i think yonko are comfortably above admirals, atleast big mom/kaido/healthy WB, to the point that they can mid diff an average admiral, and basically no diff any of the commanders (low diff for the strongest ones). I mean shit, luffy beat a first mate (and took a beating from him for hours before ascending to his level and still winning), and still got 1 hit by kaido who was fucking around

and this is me being a little generous to admirals


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks > Mihawk. One got stalled by motherfcking Vista while the other made Kaido and Akainu halt their movements.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Sep 27, 2019)

I would just like to remind everyone that casually clashing with Vista is better than losing an arm to a Sea King or getting knocked out by King or Queen. If we're talking low-end feats, Mihawk pretty much stomps both Shanks and Big Mom.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Old east blue version of shanks > yonko shanks.

And the fact that mihawk couldnt defeat shanks east blue version while the sea king take shanks arm. 

It means sea king > mihawk too. Omg sea king is the true wss


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## ice demon slayer (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk>Red snitch


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Old east blue version of shanks > yonko shanks.
> 
> And the fact that mihawk couldnt defeat shanks east blue version while the sea king take shanks arm.
> 
> It means sea king > mihawk too. Omg sea king is the true wss


Damn u right 
Sea king was able to do damage while mihawk couldn't


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Until Shanks is shown to be more then a Swordsmen(haki Jedi Knight doesn't count). Mihawk is stronger then him.

Otherwise it goes against his title and oda will have to have Zoro cut Shanks in half instead, and since we all know Blackbeard is going to Quake Shanks into paste that's not going to happen.

So these are the current options.

1. Mihawks title doesn't cover Shanks because he is more then a Swordsmen(which there is currently zero evidence for).

2. Mihawks title is false and Shanks is a better swordsmen meaning Zoro will cut him in half instead.

3. Mihawks title is false but Shanks is equal to him not stronger.

4. Shanks is more then a Swordsmen but Mihawk is still stronger then him regardless of that fact.

Odas manga so he can pick any of these 4 options he wants or even leave it ambiguous never really picking any of the 4. But going off evidence and going off the assumption that Oda is not trolling us by giving Mihawk a fake title then Mihawk>Shanks its just that simple.


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## Grinningfox (Sep 27, 2019)

I’m becoming more and more convinced that people only give a damn about Mihawk being Yonko level to try and pimp EOS Zoro up to that level

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks' missing arm and presumed lack of DF kinda restricts what kind of fighter he can be besides a swordsman.

still, I generally give him the benefit of the doubt and place him = Mihawk


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## Intus Legere (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> Outright stated they can't use Warlords against the Emperors. They would at least hesitate or reconsider to say this if they had a Yonko level as a Warlord.



It's the opposite. Brannew (and Akainu, to an extent) said they could use the warlords to curb the Yonko, and now, with the dissolution, they can't do it anymore. It means the shichibukai did stop Yonko in the past, whatever they meant by this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk is Admiral Level at least but Shanks is stronger. Also I agree the mihawk wank is to try and wank zoro to Yonko level eos


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## Etherborn (Sep 27, 2019)

The fact that Shanks became a Yonko _after_ losing his arm pretty much proves that he continued to grow in strength in spite of it. When you consider that he never once gave a crap about losing it, which people tend to ignore, it only becomes more obvious that it didn't hold him back at all.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 27, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Mihawk is Admiral Level at least but Shanks is stronger. Also I agree the mihawk wank is to try and wank zoro to Yonko level eos


Mihawk is old news. They're now talking about Zoro surpassing Roger cause he had a sword.



Etherborn said:


> The fact that Shanks became a Yonko _after_ losing his arm pretty much proves that he continued to grow in strength in spite of it. When you consider that he never once gave a crap about losing it, which people tend to ignore, it only becomes more obvious that it didn't hold him back at all.


True. He would be even stronger with his arm though. It seemed to be his dominant arm. Plus it would make his sacrifice meaningless if it didn't curb his potential.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mercurial (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> Mihawk is not and was never Yonko level as I have always believed since day one.
> 
> Outright stated they can't use Warlords against the Emperors. They would at least hesitate or reconsider to say this if they had a Yonko level as a Warlord.
> 
> ...


And so what? They had like five other top tiers to tier side (Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp and Sengoku). Also Mihawk. They did not make that much of a fuss because they did not even need all of that, it was just to show off the WG power to the world through tv live streaming. Only Akainu fought for real at Marineford. Every other top tier (except obviously for Whitebeard, the only top tier from his side) just played around. Marine actually needed two, maaayyybe three top tier of the six (five marines + Mihawk from the Warlords) that they had.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Draffut (Sep 27, 2019)

How is the "World's strongest swordsman" owner decided?

I assume it's by beating the previous owner of the title in a sword fight.

And it's very likely Mihawk has not fought any of the sword using top tier pirates, since he's been hiding from them in the Grand Line and fighting those dangerous opponents like Don Krieg for years.

And last week he mentions that it's been a very long time since the WG chased him, so clearly he hasn't fought any of them in ages either.

So ya, Mihawk earned his WSS title and has been hiding from the New World and under the protection of the Marines so no one has bothered to take it from him.  I mean, who besides Zoro even cares about the title?


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## Gianfi (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks of course

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Sep 27, 2019)

Famous thread version 12100. For me they are equal.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 27, 2019)

People implying that EoS Zoro won't be the WSS

Reactions: Like 1


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## Samehadaman (Sep 27, 2019)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> when was the last time mihawk fought shanks?
> 
> im pretty rusty on my one piece lore after dropping it



Mihawk supposedly started refusing to fight Shanks after Lord of the Coast removed his arm. So this was before Yonko status.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lord Stark (Sep 27, 2019)

Almost even but in an all out battle 10 day battle Hawk Eye would win

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Sep 27, 2019)

Raikiri19 said:


> And so what? They had like five other top tiers to tier side (Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru, Garp and Sengoku). Also Mihawk. They did not make that much of a fuss because they did not even need all of that, it was just to show off the WG power to the world through tv live streaming. Only Akainu fought for real at Marineford. Every other top tier (except obviously for Whitebeard, the only top tier from his side) just played around. Marine actually needed two, maaayyybe three top tier of the six (five marines + Mihawk from the Warlords) that they had.


Who cares how many they have on their side. Attitudes and treatment of characters are a big part of a character’s status and hype in this manga. Fodders reactions/gossip especially are a popular tool Oda uses for such.

At no point did any fodders to the high ranking marines to *any of the pirates* treated Mihawk like a Yonko level.

Anyone in this manga that is Yonko level is given royalty treatment, consideration, and respect from the top tiers down to the fodders.

Mihawk isn’t Yonko level and it’s obvious by how other characters treat and address him. He’s a step *below* that. This goes for all characters who either talk about or talk to Mihawk directly - marines, pirates, and random fodders.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monstar6 (Sep 27, 2019)

Nothing change because the people who think that Shanks is stronger never cared about when he became a Yonko or that Mihawk fought against him at Yonko level...except if they were defending something they did not beleive in 

Now this boiled down to one question: how strong do you think Zoro will be by EOS?


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## Corax (Sep 27, 2019)

It isn't RPG where yonko title gives +100 str. Some really think that 32 yo Shanks is much weaker than 33 yo yonko Shanks?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 27, 2019)

You get the WSS title by beating the WSS right? So who did Mihawk actually beat? Because we keep getting introduced to very strong sword wielding characters that Miahwk hasn't beat. When's the last time Mihawk fought Yonkou level swordsmen for him to be Yonkou level. Two-armed Shanks wasn't a Yonkou by the time they fought, so it's very possible to deduce he wasn't Yonkou level. He hasn't fought Yonkou Shanks as well. He also didn't fight Big Mom. Hell, he didn't even fight Fujitora and Rayleigh.

WSS is an in-verse title that has more to do with the circumstances of Mihawk's fights. It shouldn't be treated as gospel for the readers. There's no proof he defeated a Yonkou level swordsmen to* attain it*. And it's becoming quite clear he didn't fight any Yonkou level swordsmen to *retain it*.

He could still be Yonkou level, but you can't use WSS as proof.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draffut (Sep 27, 2019)

Corax said:


> It isn't RPG where yonko title gives +100 str. Some really think that 32 yo Shanks is much weaker than 33 yo yonko Shanks?



Exactly, from start of the series to the timeskip was like 4 months and Luffy was still basically just as strong as when we started.


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## Mariko (Sep 27, 2019)

Impossible to be sure.

Based on what we saw (MF mainly), Mihawk seems YC2/3 level.

But what we saw is just what Oda wanted us to see.

Mihawk seems to have a complex personality. And seems to be a smart and rather good dude.

So him being way stronger than what we saw is totally plausible, especially after the last chapter's revelations.

So he could be between Cracker and Shanks.

I'd for the moment place him around Oden level.

But I wouldn't mind him being placed around Yonkou Shanks level.

The question is who the marines sent after him.

It will clear the situation.

@Kinjin Is that civil enough?


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 27, 2019)

I'd rate him as equal, but they certainly have different ambitions.

Mihawk is the specialist's specialist having superlative observation and presumably excellent Kenbunshoku Haki and Busoshoku Haki. Everything that you'd need to be the ultimate swordsman.

Shanks became a Yonko, for reasons that I'm now not sure of. He doesn't want to be Pirate King. He may actually have done it to serve as the gatekeeper to being Pirate King. Shanks is counting on Luffy to surpass him so he's set the bar incredibly high.

The question is, did he need to become substantially stronger than he was to do it?

Also, if he did have to, then the Lord of the Coast incident can no longer be counted against him. He got stronger since that encounter with the Sea King. That said, it will always look pretty silly since Luffy one shotted that same Sea King as his first act of piracy.



Corax said:


> It isn't RPG where yonko title gives +100 str. Some really think that 32 yo Shanks is much weaker than 33 yo yonko Shanks?



27 vs 33 actually.


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> Exactly, from start of the series to the timeskip was like 4 months and Luffy was still basically just as strong as when we started.


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## Ruse (Sep 27, 2019)

I’d say about equal


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

I still think Mihawk >= Shanks from a story perspective makes the most sense. For Luffy and Zoro, Mihawk and Shanks are major benchmarks, but in Luffy case he has other major benchmarks to surpass beyond Shanks like White Beard, Rocks, and Roger; whole Zoro only has Mihawk. So Mihawk has to fill that roll for Zoro all the way to the end of the story and as such even if Mihawk isn’t Zoro final enemy he needs to be close to the level of Zoro Final Enemy. Now consider for a second that obviously the Straw Hats are going to fight a strong enemy then Rocks; whose FM was Prime-WB, so Zoro is going to have to beat a Prime-WB+ level by surpassing Mihawk. That means Mihawk is going to be a beast. In Luffy case he’s been going to beat a Rocks+ level threat but he’s probably going to do it by surpassing Roger not Shanks. 

So for me it’s up the Shanks to prove he’s superior at this point

Reactions: Like 3


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 27, 2019)

At worst Mihawk is equal to shanks or slightly inferior but the fact neggas here were screaming how he was stronger than him was laughable


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I still think Mihawk >= Shanks from a story perspective makes the most sense. For Luffy and Zoro, Mihawk and Shanks are major benchmarks, but in Luffy case he has other major benchmarks to surpass beyond Shanks like White Beard, Rocks, and Roger; whole Zoro only has Mihawk. So Mihawk has to fill that roll for Zoro all the way to the end of the story and as such even if Mihawk isn’t Zoro final enemy he needs to be close to the level of Zoro Final Enemy. Now consider for a second that obviously the Straw Hats are going to fight a strong enemy then Rocks; whose FM was Prime-WB, so Zoro is going to have to beat a Prime-WB+ level by surpassing Mihawk. That means Mihawk is going to be a beast. In Luffy case he’s been going to beat a Rocks+ level threat but he’s probably going to do it by surpassing Roger not Shanks.
> 
> So for me it’s up the Shanks to prove he’s superior at this point



But Mihawk will be killed by Shilliew the user of the invisibility fruit


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## Kenpachi_Uchiha (Sep 27, 2019)

lol It seems to me the special part Shanks being a Yonko is his crew has couple of ultra elite guys.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> But Mihawk will be killed by Shilliew the user of the invisibility fruit


This is a huge assumption that I don’t agree with. 
Ether Shilliew is not going to be BBs FM; or if he is he will probably get another’s power up; or BB won’t be Luffy Final Enemy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex Payne (Sep 27, 2019)

Still think Mihawk extreme diffs 6/10. Mainly because it doesn't make much sense for Mihawk to retain his title if we assume that Shanks grew stronger. Their duel(s) were prominent enough to reach Whitebeard's ears. They either fought when Mihawk was already WSS or they fought for the title. Whatever the case - Mihawk got/kept the title afterwards. I seriously doubt Mihawk would continue to consider himself WSS after this supposed "up to Yonko level growth". Dude is all about personal strength and skill. He isn't going to duck fights to simply keep holding the belt.

I expect their rivalry to come up next chapter with Mihawk's bounty. Still going to cause shitstorm but fresh info is fresh info.

That being said. It would be funny if their duels were caused by completely different reasons. Other than direct competition of skill. Iirc it wasn't actually stated in the manga that they fought to see who is the better swordsman. It was simply heavily implied.

Reactions: Like 3


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## 9TalesOfDestruction (Sep 27, 2019)

Equal

I'm not really sure why mihawk is so underrated? Yeah sure he is only a warlord but Garp is only a vice-admiral lol. 

Mihawk is a *"world's greatest*" for a reason and also a rival to a _*yonko *_and a _*mentor to the #2*_ of the main characters.


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Alex Payne said:


> Still think Mihawk extreme diffs 6/10. Mainly because it doesn't make much sense for Mihawk to retain his title if we assume that Shanks grew stronger. Their duel(s) were prominent enough to reach Whitebeard's ears. They either fought when Mihawk was already WSS or they fought for the title. Whatever the case - Mihawk got/kept the title afterwards. I seriously doubt Mihawk would continue to consider himself WSS after this supposed "up to Yonko level growth". Dude is all about personal strength and skill. He isn't going to duck fights to simply keep holding the belt.
> 
> I expect their rivalry to come up next chapter with Mihawk's bounty. Still going to cause shitstorm but fresh info is fresh info.
> 
> That being said. It would be funny if their duels were caused by completely different reasons. Other than direct competition of skill. Iirc it wasn't actually stated in the manga that they fought to see who is the better swordsman. It was simply heavily implied.


Well I think the issue is people don’t know if Shanks is Swordsman


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 27, 2019)

I think it's pretty fair to assume Yonkou Shanks is stronger than Non-Yonkou Shanks and thus by extension One-arm Shanks is stronger than Two-arm Shanks.

I mean all the current Yonkou grew in strength, some still are growing, but Shanks didn't? That's a very far reach IMO.

Reactions: Like 3


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## T.D.A (Sep 27, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Mihawk is Admiral Level at least but Shanks is stronger. Also I agree the mihawk wank is to try and wank zoro to Yonko level eos



Zoro will be Yonko level EoS even if Mihawk isn't. Remember Zoro will become so strong his name will reach the heavens. That's his promise.


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## Shinthia (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks daddy obviously :blu


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## Law (Sep 27, 2019)

Equals or either is slightly stronger (extreme diff).


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## Alex Payne (Sep 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> Well I think the issue is people don’t know if Shanks is Swordsman



That's the eternal debate, yeah. But Oda made those two rivals for a reason. It could be due to his original vision for One Piece structure, when things were simpler(and shorter). We had Shichibukai looong before Yonko. Shanks was obviously planned to be one the strongest pirates for Luffy to eventually overcome. But his original plan for Shichi+Mihawk could have been different. Oda is still decently consistent so I am expecting things to become clear eventually.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 27, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Remember Zoro will become so strong his name will reach the heavens. That's his promise.



This already happened lol.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Shanks > Mihawk. One got stalled by motherfcking Vista while the other made Kaido and Akainu halt their movements.


But If Akainu is so much weaker than yonkou as yonkou fans say. Why is this a noteworthy feat?

In fact why do people use Admirals to gauge feats if they would be low diffed by Yonkou?

Boggles the mind.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Old east blue version of shanks > yonko shanks.
> 
> And the fact that *mihawk couldnt defeat shanks east blue version* while the sea king take shanks arm.
> 
> It means sea king > mihawk too. Omg sea king is the true wss



What if he did beat Shanks and that's why he's WSS

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kai (Sep 27, 2019)

Alex Payne said:
			
		

> That's the eternal debate, yeah. But Oda made those two rivals for a reason


Fighting Mihawk in the past should define Shanks’ life and character in a major way in order for the idea of them to be close to each other/rivals to actually weigh something IMO. Where is this implied in the manga, as opposed to simply sharing a past which many top tiers do with each other? Even low tiers share pasts with Yonko.

The way I read it was they shared a moment in the past together and Shanks simply soared to greater heights as part of his progression.


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> What if he did beat Shanks and that's why he's WSS


Then it should be known through out the grandline but we only got is their duel is legendary nothing indicates that mihawk won.


Kirin Thunderclap said:


> But If Akainu is so much weaker than yonkou as yonkou fans say. Why is this a noteworthy feat?
> 
> In fact why do people use Admirals to gauge feats if they would be low diffed by Yonkou?
> 
> Boggles the mind.


What are you talking about? I just list their resume in here whats is this about Akainu? Did shanks didnt do what I just post?


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Alex Payne said:


> That's the eternal debate, yeah. But Oda made those two rivals for a reason. It could be due to his original vision for One Piece structure, when things were simpler(and shorter). We had Shichibukai looong before Yonko. Shanks was obviously planned to be one the strongest pirates for Luffy to eventually overcome. But his original plan for Shichi+Mihawk could have been different. Oda is still decently consistent so I am expecting things to become clear eventually.


Well I think the story can play out ether that they were Rivals and Mihawk bested Shanks becoming WSS (Whole Shanks sacrificed his chance to save Luffy) or Shanks is so Badass that he could rival Mihawk in Swordmanship without even being a swordsman. Way I see it is Mihawk devoted himself to the blade, while Shanks devotes himself to his comparisons and the next generation. That’s why Mihawk is stronger 1v1, but he’s a loner and has no crew, which is why he’s stuck as a Warlord while Shanks is a much greater Pirate as a Yonko.


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## Kirin Thunderclap (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Then it should be known throught out the grandline but we only got is their duel is legendary nothing indicates that mihawk won.
> 
> What are you talking about? I just list their resume in here whats is this about Akainu? Did shanks didnt do what I just post?



But you're listing the feat like Akainu is a particularly strong character? If Akainu is closer to Vista(commander) than he is to a yonkou why is Shanks stopping his fist a better feat than Vista clashing with Mihawk?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> Fighting Mihawk in the past should define Shanks’ life and character in a major way in order for the idea of them to be close to each other/rivals to actually weigh something IMO. Where is this implied in the manga, as opposed to simply sharing a past which many top tiers do with each other? Even low tiers share pasts with Yonko.
> 
> The way I read it was they shared a moment in the past together and Shanks simply soared to greater heights as part of his progression.


But he didn’t on an individual basis WSS is a greater title then anything Shanks has as an individual. Shanks went to greater height as a Pirate becoming a Yonko but that speaks to his crew power and influence as much as his own.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I think it's pretty fair to assume Yonkou Shanks is stronger than Non-Yonkou Shanks and thus by extension One-arm Shanks is stronger than Two-arm Shanks.
> 
> I mean all the current Yonkou grew in strength, some still are growing, but Shanks didn't? That's a very far reach IMO.



That goes both ways. 

Why should we assume Mihawk hasent grown stronger in the last 15+ years since him and Shanks last fought.

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 27, 2019)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> I think it's pretty fair to assume Yonkou Shanks is stronger than Non-Yonkou Shanks and thus by extension One-arm Shanks is stronger than Two-arm Shanks.
> 
> I mean all the current Yonkou grew in strength, some still are growing, but Shanks didn't? That's a very far reach IMO.



Wasn’t Shanks losing his arm stated to be a sacrifice? If he got stronger (while Mihawk somehow stagnated?) what exactly did he sacrifice? Notice how in this chapter Shanks’ crew was put on a pedestal - seems like they were a big part of why he became a Yonko.


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## Alex Payne (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> The way I read it was they shared a moment in the past together and Shanks simply soared to greater heights as part of his progression.


But that would logically make Shanks WSS. Assuming they dueled because of the title.



Turrin said:


> Well I think the story can play out ether that they were Rivals and Mihawk bested Shanks becoming WSS (Whole Shanks sacrificed his chance to save Luffy) or Shanks is so Badass that he could rival Mihawk in Swordmanship without even being a swordsman. Way I see it is Mihawk devoted himself to the blade, while Shanks devotes himself to his comparisons and the next generation. That’s why Mihawk is stronger 1v1, but he’s a loner and has no crew, which is why he’s stuck as a Warlord while Shanks is a much greater Pirate as a Yonko.


That's true. I think people misunderstand what being a Pirate Emperor actually means. It's not just personal strength. It's strength+crewmembers+allies+territories+other resources. Mihawk is strictly solo fighter. While Shanks(even if weaker) can accomplish x100 more by virtue of having 3 borderline top tiers in his crew plus a small+ fleet.

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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> But you're listing the feat like Akainu is a particularly strong character? If Akainu is closer to Vista(commander) than he is to a yonkou why is Shanks stopping his fist a better feat than clashing with Mihawk?


Yes, I did because Akainu is much stronger than motherfckin vista is what I mean. Clearly I wanted to state that stoping Akainu with bloodlust mindset is better than getting stalled by vista and ask him to postlone the match so that my shanks > mihawk statement have evidence. And its a fckin mile the gap of their portrayal in those scenes.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 27, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> That goes both ways.
> 
> Why should we assume Mihawk hasent grown stronger in the last 15+ years since him and Shanks last fought.





Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Wasn’t Shanks losing his arm stated to be a sacrifice? If he got stronger (while Mihawk somehow stagnated?) what exactly did he sacrifice? Notice how in this chapter Shanks’ crew was put on a pedestal - seems like they were a big part of why he became a Yonko.



It's actually possible that Mihawk either stagnated or Shanks grow more than him. Shanks rose in power while Mihawk sat comfortably as a Shichibukai. Shanks fought Yonkou level opponents and kept defending territory against the Marines and Yonkou while Mihawk was busy with much lesser opponents.

Crew is probably a pretty big factor into being a Yonkou, but there's always a strength threshold otherwise Shanks wouldn't have stayed in power as a Yonkou for a solid six years.


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## Eliyua23 (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks will be stronger but he hindered somehow from being able to use his full
Abilities .


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 27, 2019)

We know more about Shanks than Mihawk at this point

We don't know when he became WSS, when he turned his blade black (_if he did_), who he fought, how strong he was when he fought Shanks

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Yes, I did because Akainu is much stronger than motherfckin vista is what I mean. Clearly I wanted to state that stoping Akainu with bloodlust mindset is better than getting stalled by vista and ask him to postlone the match so that my shanks > mihawk statement have evidence. And its a fckin mile the gap of their portrayal in those scenes.



Much stronger than Vista? Ehh I don't know about that according to your camp Admirals are commander level/FM+ at best.

So Shanks only stalling an injured Akainu and not low diffing him like Big Mom and Kaidou have to commanders, makes Mihawk's feat with Vista pretty comparable don't you think?

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> It's actually possible that Mihawk either stagnated or Shanks grow more than him. Shanks rose in power while Mihawk sat comfortably as a Shichibukai. Shanks fought Yonkou level opponents and kept defending territory against the Marines and Yonkou while Mihawk was busy with much lesser opponents.
> 
> Crew is probably a pretty big factor into being a Yonkou, but there's always a strength threshold otherwise Shanks wouldn't have stayed in power as a Yonkou for a solid six years.



mihawk did stagnate based off the databook anyway.

Thing is we don't know when that happened.


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> Much stronger than Vista? Ehh I don't know about that according to your camp Admirals are commander level/FM+ at best.
> 
> So Shanks only stalling an injured Akainu and not low diffing him like Big Mom and Kaidou have to commanders, makes his feat with Vista pretty comarable don't you think?


you're ranting this about me because im in the same camp with them? Without knowing where my opinion on that matter because clearly i state this before here in the OL its up to you to find that yonko > admirals > yonko commander imo. Tag them whoever it is you have problem with and dont take it out on me. Im getting confuse here.  

One more thing, shanks couldnt fodderize akainu because he back down.


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## Stars (Sep 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> I still think Mihawk >= Shanks from a story perspective makes the most sense. For Luffy and Zoro, Mihawk and Shanks are major benchmarks, but in Luffy case he has other major benchmarks to surpass beyond Shanks like White Beard, Rocks, and Roger; whole Zoro only has Mihawk. So Mihawk has to fill that roll for Zoro all the way to the end of the story and as such even if Mihawk isn’t Zoro final enemy he needs to be close to the level of Zoro Final Enemy. Now consider for a second that obviously the Straw Hats are going to fight a strong enemy then Rocks; whose FM was Prime-WB, so Zoro is going to have to beat a Prime-WB+ level by surpassing Mihawk. That means Mihawk is going to be a beast. In Luffy case he’s been going to beat a Rocks+ level threat but he’s probably going to do it by surpassing Roger not Shanks.
> 
> So for me it’s up the Shanks to prove he’s superior at this point



This makes no sense. You’re just indirectly stringing together characters in an attempt to justify your own desires. While it’s true that Luffy understands he needs to surpass the other emperors to become Pirate King, Luffy’s benchmark has _only ever_ been Shanks. He doesn’t give a _single fuck_ about Whitebeard, has never even heard of Rocks, and is only after Roger’s title. He has no way of comparing the progression of his strength to Roger’s since he’s been dead longer than Luffy has been alive.

Luffy’s _stated ambitions_ in the first chapter essentially confirm that Shanks is currently the greatest pirate alive _and_ has the greatest pirate crew in the world, at least until Blackbeard defeats him. But somehow in your world, Zoro has to be _stronger_ than Whitebeard since Whitebeard has (according to you) been confirmed the Rocks Pirates First Mate? And only then will Zoro be _decisively_ stronger than Mihawk? Therefore, Mihawk has to be _at_ _least_ as strong as Shanks? Where the fuck did you dig these conclusions up from? These bullshit crew-dynamic parallels never existed.



Sakazuki-Singh said:


> We know more about Shanks than Mihawk at this point



We know more about Mihawk’s strength than we do about Shanks’ maximum. People in your camp just like to pretend you don’t.

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## Kai (Sep 27, 2019)

Turrin said:


> But he didn’t on an individual basis WSS is a greater title then anything Shanks has as an individual. Shanks went to greater height as a Pirate becoming a Yonko but that speaks to his crew power and influence as much as his own.


If being a Yonko speaks as much of his crew influence as much as his own, then being a Yonko takes nothing away from his own individual power of being a Yonko. Bringing that up is therefore redundant.

And Yonko is a world title itself, it’s the four strongest pirates in the world period.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 27, 2019)

Stars said:


> This makes no sense. You’re just indirectly stringing together characters in an attempt to justify your own desires. While it’s true that Luffy understands he needs to surpass the other emperors to become Pirate King, Luffy’s benchmark has _only ever_ been Shanks. He doesn’t give a _single fuck_ about Whitebeard, has never even heard of Rocks, and is only after Roger’s title. He has no way of comparing the progression of his strength to Roger’s since he’s been dead longer than Luffy has been alive.
> 
> Luffy’s _stated ambitions_ in the first chapter essentially confirm that Shanks is currently the greatest pirate alive _and_ has the greatest pirate crew in the world, at least until Blackbeard defeats him. But somehow in your world, Zoro has to be _stronger_ than Whitebeard since Whitebeard has (according to you) been confirmed the Rocks Pirates First Mate? And only then will Zoro be decisively stronger than Mihawk? Therefore Mihawk has to be at least as strong as Shanks? Where the fuck did you dig these conclusions up from? These bullshit crew-dynamic parallels never existed.
> 
> ...



I never said the contrary, Mihawk has more feats but he was never pushed to his limits

We'll probably see him go all out at EoS just like Shanks

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## Kirin Thunderclap (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> you're ranting this about me because im in the same camp with them? Without knowing where my opinion on that matter because clearly i state this before here in the OL its up to you to find that yonko > admirals > yonko commander imo. Tag them whoever it is you have problem with and dont take it out on me. Im getting confuse here.
> 
> One more thing, shanks couldnt fodderize akainu because he back down.



I know you're of the opinion that Admirals are closer to commanders from your previous posts. Even just now you implied that if Shanks fought Akainu he would fodderize him.

The reason I'm talking to you in particualr is because you used Akainu as a point against Mihawk, when Akainu gets low diffed by Yonkou.

In both cases Mihawk and Shanks only stalled/got stalled by characters significantly weaker than themselves.

So it's not fair to use Vista as a point against Mihawk.

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## Stars (Sep 27, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> I never said the contrary, Mihawk has more feats but he was never pushed to his limits
> 
> We'll probably see him go all out at EoS just like Shanks



He _chose_ to fight at his limits and we saw the results on-panel. Feel free to keep pretending though. I was just pointing out the obvious. Carry on.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 27, 2019)

Damn, that's the second bait I fall for today


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 27, 2019)

Kirin Thunderclap said:


> I know you're of the opnion that Admirals are closer to commanders from your previous posts. Even just now you implied that if Shanks fought Akainu he would fodderize him.
> 
> The reason I'm talking to you in particualr is because you used Akainu as a point against Mihawk, when Akainu gets low diffed by Yonkou.
> 
> ...


Jesus man youre so persistent. What is the previous post that I make that made tou belive that? maybe im joking just like when I said shanks will fodderize akainu just to make fun of you.

Even if we go to what youre saying when we still compare vista and akainu its no doubt akainu is better than vista so it means shanks still looks good compare to mihawk just like my original post intention. Mihawk < Shanks.


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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Kai said:


> If being a Yonko speaks as much of his crew influence as much as his own, then being a Yonko takes nothing away from his own individual power of being a Yonko. Bringing that up is therefore redundant.
> 
> And Yonko is a world title itself, it’s the four strongest pirates in the world period.


No being a Yonko speaks of both his power and his crew combined. Mihawk Title is just his Power

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## sanji's left eye (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks's portrayal is so superior that it's pretty obvious at this point. Don't sleep on Mihawk though. Dude is Admiral level at a minimum.


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## YellowCosmos (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk isn't interested in fighting Shanks, and iirc has called him a "has-been" on the first occasion where they met. The implication is that Shanks isn't really the swordsman he once was, and given that he is implied to be a swordsman, then it really doesn't matter that Mihawk never fought Shanks when Shanks was a Yonkou. You're still left with the implication that Mihawk is stronger. Shanks might have become a Yonkou six years ago for reasons that have nothing to do with him personally becoming stronger - for instance, he might have become active again at that point when he previously he was not.

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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

Stars said:


> This makes no sense. You’re just indirectly stringing together characters in an attempt to justify your own desires. While it’s true that Luffy understands he needs to surpass the other emperors to become Pirate King, Luffy’s benchmark has _only ever_ been Shanks. He doesn’t give a _single fuck_ about Whitebeard, has never even heard of Rocks, and is only after Roger’s title. He has no way of comparing the progression of his strength to Roger’s since he’s been dead longer than Luffy has been alive.
> 
> Luffy’s _stated ambitions_ in the first chapter essentially confirm that Shanks is currently the greatest pirate alive _and_ has the greatest pirate crew in the world, at least until Blackbeard defeats him. But somehow in your world, Zoro has to be _stronger_ than Whitebeard since Whitebeard has (according to you) been confirmed the Rocks Pirates First Mate? And only then will Zoro be _decisively_ stronger than Mihawk? Therefore, Mihawk has to be _at_ _least_ as strong as Shanks? Where the fuck did you dig these conclusions up from? These bullshit crew-dynamic parallels never existed.
> .


What desire?

Luffy wants to be PK; that means his ultimate benchmark is Roger; not Shanks, unless you think Shanks is >= Roger.

Roger main enemy was Rocks; so Iran obvious that Luffy (and SHs) will end up fighting an enemies >= Rocks, so that Luffy can surpass Roger’s accomplishments. It Rocks FM is Prime-WB, Luffy FM is going to need to match up with and someone >= Prime WB. It’s that simple.

Now maybe Luffy will surpass Roger in his fight against BB, and he surpass Shanks before then. But Zoro doesn’t have anyone besides Mihawk, so him surpassing Mihawk before his fight with BB Pirates wouldn’t make sense.

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## Angoobo (Sep 27, 2019)

WB was a swordsman as well. And Mihawk is nowhere near his level.
Everything in the manga shows Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. The strongest pirates are the Yonkou. Period

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## Monstar6 (Sep 27, 2019)

Angoobo said:


> WB was a swordsman as well.

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## Zuhaitz (Sep 27, 2019)

Monstar6 said:


>


WB's weapon is one the 12 supreme grade swords, hence he is an swordsman by OPverse standards.

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## Dunno (Sep 27, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> WB's weapon is one the 12 supreme grade swords, hence he is an swordsman by OPverse standards.


The standard as indicated where?

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## Kamina. (Sep 27, 2019)

Not troll post for once but honestly asking how low iq do you have to be to try and use stupid things like the Sea King or the war as support for your character? Do you honestly believe Oda thinks that way?


The real answers is:
1. If Shanks is a swordsman then Mihawk is stronger
2. If he's not a swordsman's they're equals or Shanks is stronger.

Trying to seriously imply anything based off throwaway panels is just dumb. Just stick to troll wanking.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Angoobo said:


> WB *was a swordsman as well. And Mihawk is nowhere near his level.*
> Everything in the manga shows Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. The strongest pirates are the Yonkou. Period



False

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## MrPopo (Sep 27, 2019)

Don King said:


> Old east blue version of shanks > yonko shanks.
> 
> And the fact that mihawk couldnt defeat shanks east blue version while the sea king take shanks arm.
> 
> It means sea king > mihawk too. Omg sea king is the true wss


Luffy one shoted that sea king in the first chapter ,once again proving the fist > the sword


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 27, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Luffy can get his Haki to High class in matter of a year or two .... but after that things are MUCH harder and he need YEARS to go from high class to top class





MrPopo said:


> Luffy one shoted that sea king in the first chapter ,once again proving the fist > the sword



_Well yeah, Garp went in and Fisted Rocks and the 3 Emperors _

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fel1x (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks is Yonko level
Mihawk is Akainu level
so Shanks>Mihawk

keep it friendly


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## Redline (Sep 27, 2019)

well beware folk becouse  the review bounty of the warlords are coming and i doubt the will give a wss more then the the lowest younkou bounty...


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## Typhon (Sep 27, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The standard as indicated where?


That's the age old argument. Anybody who fights with a bladed weapon can be considered a swordsman. Doesn't matter if it's a pole arm. 

I have to fact check the 12 supreme grade though


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 27, 2019)

Dunno said:


> The standard as indicated where?


By anyone that thinks that Shanks is an swordsman because he has one.


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## Dunno (Sep 27, 2019)

Typhon said:


> That's the age old argument. Anybody who fights with a bladed weapon can be considered a swordsman. Doesn't matter if it's a pole arm.
> 
> I have to fact check the 12 supreme grade though


It's an age old argument used by trolls or in jokes. It has no basis in the manga as far as I know.



Zuhaitz said:


> By anyone that thinks that Shanks is an swordsman because he has one.


Which is you, Erkan and I presume at least someone else?


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 27, 2019)

Dunno said:


> It's an age old argument used by trolls or in jokes. It has no basis in the manga as far as I know.
> 
> 
> Which is you, Erkan and I presume at least someone else?


So in your opinion Shanks isn't an swordsman?


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## Draffut (Sep 27, 2019)

Dunno said:


> It's an age old argument used by trolls or in jokes. It has no basis in the manga as far as I know



What part has no basis in the manga?  That the Murakumogiri is a supreme grade sword?  That Whitebeard used the Murakumogiri and was therefor a swordsman?

In chapter 912 this is further reinforced when Hitetsu says something along the lines of "Among all the bladed weapons in the world, there are 12 supreme grade swords."  Solidifying that all 12 of them are swords, and their users are sword fighters.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 27, 2019)

Cardboard Jewsuke said:


> What part has no basis in the manga?  That the Murakumogiri is a supreme grade sword?  That Whitebeard used the Murakumogiri and was therefor a swordsman?
> 
> In chapter 912 this is further reinforced when Hitetsu says something along the lines of "Among all the bladed weapons in the world, there are 12 supreme grade swords."  Solidifying that all 12 of them are swords, and their users are sword fighters.



A bisento is a pole weapon not a sword.

But if you really want whitebeard to be a Swordsmen it doesn't really matter a fuck ton of people our. Pretty much every marine is trained to used the sword even Akainu use to use one XD. It's the most common weapon of pirates and military alike.


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## Lord Melkor (Sep 27, 2019)

They are pretty much equal IMO- Mihawk is Zoro's ultimate goal to surpass and inspiration, while Shanks is Luffy's inspiration, but Luffy also has Roger, who is above Shanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 27, 2019)

Typhon said:


> I have to fact check the 12 supreme grade though



SBS Volume 93, Chapter 937 page 12.

Whitebeard's Naginata is called Murakumogiri and is a Supreme Grade Sword. From Oda himself.

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## Turrin (Sep 27, 2019)

For the record I don’t agree with everyone who uses a Sword being a Swordsman. Being a Swordsman is a heart and soul kind of thing; and a devotion or the honor and art of swordsmanship. That’s why I wouldnt say Mihawk is > Roger because he wielded swords on occasion. But the swordsman we’ve seen are skilled enough where being the WSS is huge hype. We’re starting to get a better understanding of that in Wano with how even Odin who wounded Kaidou significantly didn’t upgrade his Supreme Grade Enma to Black level, but Mihawk did upgrade his sword to that level; meaning Mihawk strikes are above that of someone who severely wounded Kaidou. That tells me it’s very plausible that Mihawk can beat Kaidou; and you can take that as you will but at the very least it shows Mihawk is a threat to the Yonko

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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk wouldn't be >Roger even if Roger were a swordsman because Mihawk wasn't WSS when Roger was around.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bash24 (Sep 27, 2019)

I think the chances of Shanks have a DF have gone up this chapter... I know Shanks is strong and a haki master, but it's kind of ridiculous for him to be a Yonko with a missing arm with just pure human might alone... so far all the Yonkos & Admirals have had DF's, Roger and Garp are still unconfirmed at this point. Rayleigh is the only one who is that strong without a DF confirmed so Shanks might be that strong too who knows...

If he has a DF than he is stronger than Mihawk, if not than they are more or less around the same level. I doubt either one is going to be significantly stronger than the other.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 27, 2019)

Bash24 said:


> I think the chances of Shanks have a DF have gone up this chapter... I know Shanks is strong and a haki master, but it's kind of ridiculous for him to be a Yonko with a missing arm with just pure human might alone... so far all the Yonkos & Admirals have had DF's, Roger and Garp are still unconfirmed at this point. Rayleigh is the only one who is that strong without a DF confirmed so Shanks might be that strong too who knows...
> 
> If he has a DF than he is stronger than Mihawk, if not than they are more or less around the same level. I doubt either one is going to be significantly stronger than the other.



I thought it was plainly confirmed that Garp and Roger didn't have devil fruits, and in fact the Roger Pirates were in general against them due to losing the ability to swim not being worth it. Buggy ate his by accident of his own greed.

I mean it isn't impossible that he ate a Devil Fruit since chapter one, but I actually highly doubt it. Most people show their Devil Fruit fairly early on.

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## J★J♥ (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk wanker logic kills me 
Mihawk was a shichibukai which is basically mercenary pirate hired by WG
Hajrudin is worlds strongest mercenary
Mihawk=>Shanks because shanks has sword
Hajrudin > Mihawk => Shanks


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 27, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I thought it was plainly confirmed that Garp and Roger didn't have devil fruits, and in fact the Roger Pirates were in general against them due to losing the ability to swim not being worth it. Buggy ate his by accident of his own greed.
> 
> I mean it isn't impossible that he ate a Devil Fruit since chapter one, but I actually highly doubt it. Most people show their Devil Fruit fairly early on.



_Whitebeard didn't.  We all thought he was a Bisento Man...

Until Marineford...  _


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## Redline (Sep 27, 2019)

how come this tread has only six pages ??? lmaooo


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## Xebec (Sep 27, 2019)

B-B-but the vivre card said he was a Yonko when he met Luffy


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Sep 27, 2019)

oda needs to retcon in a wano swordsman who could've chased away kaido but was  defeated by mihawk and committed seppukko


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 27, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> how come this tread has only six pages ??? lmaooo



_LMAO, we all know who da bitch in this photo is.  _

Reactions: Like 1


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## TasteTheDifference (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks is stronger obviously, that was shown when kuma sent zoro to him and he humbly submitted to training

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bash24 (Sep 27, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> I thought it was plainly confirmed that Garp and Roger didn't have devil fruits, and in fact the Roger Pirates were in general against them due to losing the ability to swim not being worth it. Buggy ate his by accident of his own greed.
> 
> I mean it isn't impossible that he ate a Devil Fruit since chapter one, but I actually highly doubt it. Most people show their Devil Fruit fairly early on.


you're probably right.


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## Conxc (Sep 27, 2019)

Mihawk >>>> any ginger you could possibly name.


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## Samehadaman (Sep 27, 2019)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> You get the WSS title by beating the WSS right? So who did Mihawk actually beat? Because we keep getting introduced to very strong sword wielding characters that Miahwk hasn't beat. When's the last time Mihawk fought Yonkou level swordsmen for him to be Yonkou level. Two-armed Shanks wasn't a Yonkou by the time they fought, so it's very possible to deduce he wasn't Yonkou level. He hasn't fought Yonkou Shanks as well. He also didn't fight Big Mom. Hell, he didn't even fight Fujitora and Rayleigh.
> 
> WSS is an in-verse title that has more to do with the circumstances of Mihawk's fights. It shouldn't be treated as gospel for the readers. There's no proof he defeated a Yonkou level swordsmen to* attain it*. And it's becoming quite clear he didn't fight any Yonkou level swordsmen to *retain it*.
> 
> He could still be Yonkou level, but you can't use WSS as proof.



He hadn't even run into Vista before Marineford even though he knew his reputation as swordsman. WSS being factual as opposed to reputation/fame is up to what you think Oda is saying to reader from a meta POV.
Inverse it is clearly not factually proven.

Reactions: Like 2


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## savior2005 (Sep 27, 2019)

It's literally been confirmed that Shanks>>>Mihawk.

Mihawk picks fights with pirates like Don fucking Krieg
Mihawk failed miserably against Jozu despite aiming at WB, who is much stronger than Jozu
Shanks actually clashed evenly with Whitebeard, and all of WB's commanders were in awe of Shanks and had the utmost respect for him.
Mihawk was almost killed by Vista
Shanks offered to fight Mihawk in their first scene together, but Mihawk bitched out
Mihawk ran away as soon as Shanks appeared in the war
Shanks was confirmed to have gotten stronger in this recent chapter, by becoming Yonko 6 years ago despite losing an arm, while no such thing has ever been implied about Mihawk.

At one point in their youth, they were probably equal, but now it's obvious who the alpha is, and it damn sure ain't Mihawk


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## TasteTheDifference (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks will destroy Mihawk with his Druid ninjutsu like summon plus five dire wolf


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## Luke (Sep 27, 2019)

Shanks is stronger

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dracule Mihawk (Sep 28, 2019)

Mihawk would probably win a fight that would never happen. It's close to even. It's just Mihawk has nothing to prove anymore. Like even in the war, he fucked aroudn with Luffy a bit and then fucked off.

He's basically one of the only characters in One Piece who's already attained their core goal and is the WSS. So him not really doing much makes sense. He's basically just testing a successor. He doesn't really have much to prove and clearly likes fucking around.

Also, the point about him randomly becoming WSS is dumb as sit. Being recognized as the WSS means you're always going to have people targeting you. And he has no crew, no protection or anything. And yet no one fucks with him or has been able to take him down.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Quipchaque (Sep 28, 2019)

@Amol

You struggle too much with the idea of Shanks~Mihawk. Just let it go until we find out more about their power.


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## Styles (Sep 28, 2019)

I mean Oda has portrayed them as equals since the get go. There's no reason to think otherwise. Right now I believe Kaidou and BM are in a tier of their own and Shanks/Mihawk/Akainu/Aokiji/Kizaru are in the next tier. I will say that the argument that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he's the WSS is a stretch. Mihawk is a true swordsman like Zoro. Shanks is just a pirate. He's never been labeled as a swordsman as far as I know by Oda or any instory characters. So yes, perhaps Mihawk is better with the sword, doesn't mean he's stronger. If I had to pick who is stronger, then I'd say Shanks, purely off portrayal.


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 28, 2019)

Big Baller Brand said:


> _Whitebeard didn't.  We all thought he was a Bisento Man...
> 
> Until Marineford...  _


No Bisento, supreme grade *sword*. Therefore swordsman.


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## trance (Sep 28, 2019)

oda making wb's bisento one of the 12 supreme blades was just 

like he and his worldbreaking fruit powers needed anything more

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vengeance (Sep 28, 2019)

Who is stronger? Prime Grandmaster.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Six (Sep 28, 2019)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> You get the WSS title by beating the WSS right? So who did Mihawk actually beat? Because we keep getting introduced to very strong sword wielding characters that Miahwk hasn't beat. When's the last time Mihawk fought Yonkou level swordsmen for him to be Yonkou level. Two-armed Shanks wasn't a Yonkou by the time they fought, so it's very possible to deduce he wasn't Yonkou level. He hasn't fought Yonkou Shanks as well. He also didn't fight Big Mom. Hell, he didn't even fight Fujitora and Rayleigh.
> 
> WSS is an in-verse title that has more to do with the circumstances of Mihawk's fights. It shouldn't be treated as gospel for the readers. There's no proof he defeated a Yonkou level swordsmen to* attain it*. And it's becoming quite clear he didn't fight any Yonkou level swordsmen to *retain it*.
> 
> He could still be Yonkou level, but you can't use WSS as proof.


This is the post that people using WSS need to read. With their logic, Zoro would never become WSS since Mihawk is the strongest and can't lose by default.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 28, 2019)

Snake said:


> This is the post that people using WSS need to read. With their logic, Zoro would never become WSS since Mihawk is the strongest and can't lose by default.



Characters grow stronger during fights
Zoro won't be already stronger than Mihawk when he'll face him, the same way he wasn't stronger than Mr.1 until he learned to cut him


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## Six (Sep 28, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Characters grow stronger during fights
> Zoro won't be already stronger than Mihawk when he'll face him, the same way he wasn't stronger than Mr.1 until he learned to cut him


So assuming Mihawk is stronger than Shanks or barely stronger, why couldn't Shanks grow during the fight? Especially considering that Oda confirmed that dudes like Kizaru grew stronger over the timeskip. Why does that apply only to Zoro?


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 28, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Characters grow stronger during fights
> Zoro won't be already stronger than Mihawk when he'll face him, the same way he wasn't stronger than Mr.1 until he learned to cut him



That's a good point. So by that logic, it's totally possible Shanks grew stronger than Mihawk the last time they fought.


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## Six (Sep 28, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> SBS Volume 93, Chapter 937 page 12.
> 
> Whitebeard's Naginata is called Murakumogiri and is a Supreme Grade Sword. From Oda himself.


Mihawk >> Whitebeard confirmed


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 28, 2019)

Snake said:


> So assuming Mihawk is stronger than Shanks or barely stronger, why couldn't Shanks grow during the fight? Especially considering that Oda confirmed that dudes like Kizaru grew stronger over the timeskip. Why does that apply only to Zoro?





Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> That's a good point. So by that logic, it's totally possible Shanks grew stronger than Mihawk the last time they fought.



I don't believe Mihawk > Shanks / They both most likely reached their prime / If Shanks might grow stronger during the fight then we could say the same about Mihawk / Zoro didn't reach his prime yet unlike them


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## Six (Sep 28, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> I don't believe Mihawk > Shanks / They both most likely reached their prime / If Shanks might grow stronger during the fight then we could say the same about Mihawk / Zoro didn't reach his prime yet unlike them


Shanks is 39, Kizaru is 61 I think and he's stated to continue to grow. My point being anybody that simply says WSS is an autowin is using faulty logic. Especially when Whitebeard is an owner of one of the 12 Supreme Grade swords. 
>We could say the same about Mihawk growing stronger. 
Guess Zoro will never beat him then. 
My main point with that argument, was that Mihawk defeated the previous WSS for the title. He has not beaten every swordmaster alive and thus that means that there is a swordsman out there capable of beati g him regardless of his title.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 28, 2019)

Snake said:


> Shanks is 39, Kizaru is 61 I think and he's stated to continue to grow. My point being anybody that simply says WSS is an autowin is using faulty logic. Especially when Whitebeard is an owner of one of the 12 Supreme Grade swords.
> >We could say the same about Mihawk growing stronger.
> Guess Zoro will never beat him then.
> My main point with that argument, was that Mihawk defeated the previous WSS for the title. He has not beaten every swordmaster alive and thus that means that there is a swordsman out there capable of beati g him regardless of his title.



Where did you read that Kizaru thing ? He's 58 btw
Zoro will surpass Mihawk, he will grow stronger during the fight against his opponent who already reached his prime
If there's a swordsman able to beat Mihawk then Zoro won't achieve his dream after he defeats him (assuming Mihawk is his last opponent)


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## Six (Sep 28, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Where did you read that Kizaru thing ? He's 58 btw
> Zoro will surpass Mihawk, he will grow stronger during the fight against his opponent who already reached his prime
> If there's a swordsman able to beat Mihawk then Zoro won't achieve his dream after he defeats him (assuming Mihawk is his last opponent)


Might take me a while, but I'll look for it.


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## Dunno (Sep 28, 2019)

Snake said:


> This is the post that people using WSS need to read. With their logic, Zoro would never become WSS since Mihawk is the strongest and can't lose by default.


It doesn't work like that. The text in the manga is only true at the point it is written, not for an indefinite time afterwards. In this case, Oda has written that Mihawk was the WSS when he was introduced back at Baratie, in chapter 925 and a number of times in-between. Thus, he was canonically the overall strongest person classified as a swordsman at those points. Once Zoro surpasses Mihawk, Oda will stop confirming that Mihawk is the WSS, it's as easy as that.

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## convict (Sep 28, 2019)

Zoro's Gol D Roger equivalent is at least as strong as the weakest Yonkou with the strongest crew. Always maintained that, now with the current chapter it is reinforced. Only one of the Yonkou was highlighted for his individual strength as opposed to his crew's strength. And it wasn't Shanks.

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## T.D.A (Sep 28, 2019)

Oda has portrayed them as rivals so I'd assume they are both around the same level.

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## Redline (Sep 28, 2019)

Dracule Mihawk said:


> Mihawk would probably win a fight that would never happen. It's close to even. It's just Mihawk has nothing to prove anymore. Like even in the war, he fucked aroudn with Luffy a bit and then fucked off.
> 
> He's basically one of the only characters in One Piece who's already attained their core goal and is the WSS. So him not really doing much makes sense. He's basically just testing a successor. He doesn't really have much to prove and clearly likes fucking around.
> 
> Also, the point about him randomly becoming WSS is dumb as sit. Being recognized as the WSS means you're always going to have people targeting you. And he has no crew, no protection or anything. And yet no one fucks with him or has been able to take him down.


Lol..nothing to prove any more you say?
What about having Coc for a starter!?



T.D.A said:


> Oda has portrayed them as rivals so I'd assume they are both around the same level.


So you are right to assume like I do that Sanji and Zoro are equal right? Xd


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## T.D.A (Sep 28, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Lol..nothing to prove any more you say?
> What about having Coc for a starter!?
> 
> 
> So you are right to assume like I do that Sanji and Zoro are equal right? Xd



Shanks and Mihawk used to fight each other as rivals, Sanji and Zoro don't even fight each other like that. False equivalency as always.


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Sep 28, 2019)

That sea king from vol. 1 kills them both low diff.


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## Beast (Sep 28, 2019)

I think we should hold on before making judgement... 

If Mihawk postpones a third fight with Shanks... then you know what that means. 
Shanks wins by disqualification.

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## Redline (Sep 28, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Shanks and Mihawk used to fight each other as rivals, Sanji and Zoro don't even fight each other like that. False equivalency as always.


Doesn't matter! Zoro and Sanji are portrait as rivals more then shanks and Mihawk lol...
As always


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2019)

Reasonably he’s either equal to or above Shanks. Shanks’ only style of fighting so far is swordsmanship. Mihawk is the WSS. It’s that simple. I feel like the argument that they’re equal is being considerate. The manga already tells us who’s stronger.

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## Redline (Sep 28, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Reasonably he’s either equal to or above Shanks. Shanks’ only style of fighting so far is swordsmanship. Mihawk is the WSS. It’s that simple. I feel like the argument that they’re equal is being considerate. The manga already tells us who’s stronger.


lol..yes indeed at it is clear that Shanks is!  what are guys gonna say when you will see mihawk bounty to be half of shanks? that it doesn't matter?! right? lmaoo stop it , just get off the bandwagon and be real


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## Figo (Sep 28, 2019)

Obviously Shanks, Mihawk fans are delusional af.


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## T.D.A (Sep 28, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> lol..yes indeed at it is clear that Shanks is!  what are guys gonna say when you will see mihawk bounty to be half of shanks? that it doesn't matter?! right? lmaoo stop it , just get off the bandwagon and be real



Mihawk is going to have a lower bounty anyway because he's only just been reinstated as a criminal.


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## Conxc (Sep 28, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> lol..yes indeed at it is clear that Shanks is!  what are guys gonna say when you will see mihawk bounty to be half of shanks? that it doesn't matter?! right? lmaoo stop it , just get off the bandwagon and be real


Shanks has a whole crew, with guys that are each big threats to the WG also with really high bounties. Those guys work under him, so his bounty should be really high. Mihawk is a loner. One guy. Could his bounty be high? Sure, but I don’t expect it to be crazy. Good thing bounty =\= strength, right?

And also like @T.D.A said, his bounty has been frozen for years. Come on man.

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## Redline (Sep 28, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Mihawk is going to have a lower bounty anyway because he's only just been reinstated as a criminal.


Yeah..and I am just gonna add it will be definitely lower then teach!.. so what?



Conxc said:


> Shanks has a whole crew, with guys that are each big threats to the WG also with really high bounties. Those guys work under him, so his bounty should be really high. Mihawk is a loner. One guy. Could his bounty be high? Sure, but I don’t expect it to be crazy. Good thing bounty =\= strength, right?
> 
> And also like @T.D.A said, his bounty has been frozen for years. Come on man.


Yeah o see what you mean..but you can't say we haven't seen that the higher is the bounty the stronger is the opponent? Right?


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 28, 2019)

We'll know soon, they are updating Shichibukai's bounties. Let's see Mihawk's bounty.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Sep 28, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> lol..yes indeed at it is clear that Shanks is!  what are guys gonna say when you will see mihawk bounty to be half of shanks? that it doesn't matter?! right? lmaoo stop it , just get off the bandwagon and be real





Zuhaitz said:


> We'll know soon, they are updating Shichibukai's bounties. Let's see Mihawk's bounty.


Comparing bounties? Really? I knew you guys were getting desperate, but not to that extent.


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## Redline (Sep 28, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Comparing bounties? Really? I knew you guys were getting desperate, but not to that extent.






Zuhaitz said:


> We'll know soon, they are updating Shichibukai's bounties. Let's see Mihawk's bounty.


Mihawk bounty will be at least around 4 billion like Shanks


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 28, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Mihawk is going to have a lower bounty anyway because he's only just been reinstated as a criminal.



Well they're recalculating aren't they?

For instance Crocodile's bounty was what? 80 Million? But apparently it would've been 160 million if the government had known about Baroque Works and his operations, if it was reinstated before he was captured.

That said, Mihawk might not get a big boost since he's been more or less doing his job.

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## T.D.A (Sep 28, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Well they're recalculating aren't they?
> 
> For instance Crocodile's bounty was what? 80 Million? But apparently it would've been 160 million if the government had known about Baroque Works and his operations, if it was reinstated before he was captured.
> 
> That said, Mihawk might not get a big boost since he's been more or less doing his job.



Let's see what he gets, he should have a bigger bounty than YCs. If we gets > 2 billion bounty, he's pretty much considered Yonko level by the marines.

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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 28, 2019)

You all realise that Mihawk is rejoining Shanks' crew now that he's wanted again, right?

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 28, 2019)

Mihawk extreme diffs

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## Xebec (Sep 28, 2019)

Mihawk fans whole argument was that Shanks was already a Yonko when they were dueling 12+ years ago and that got crapped on this chapter :gitgud


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## Jujubatman12 (Sep 28, 2019)

Mihawk is one person. Not a youkou who takes territories and crews


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## Dunno (Sep 28, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk fans whole argument was that Shanks was already a Yonko when they were dueling 12+ years ago and that got crapped on this chapter :gitgud


Please refrain from stating things that are obviously false.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Superstars (Sep 28, 2019)

Shanks and Mihawk had legendary duels...Anything added to this is headcanon.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Lee-Sensei (Sep 28, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Both are swordsmen while 1 has the world's strongest swordsman title and he is the weaker one?


Words are wind. Although, I think that they're both about equal.


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## Magentabeard (Sep 28, 2019)

Zoro will already be near Mihawk level after wano and be significantly stronger EOS


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## Fel1x (Sep 28, 2019)

good to see that most of OL users see through the lies of Mihawk fandom. if you add "them being equal" and "Mihawk being stronger", still Shanks> wins


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk fans whole argument was that Shanks was already a Yonko when they were dueling 12+ years ago and that got crapped on this chapter :gitgud



Even if they didn't duel when Shanks was a Yonko, Mihawk still straight up called him a one armed has been to his face without anyone  objecting.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Flame (Sep 29, 2019)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> You all realise that Mihawk is rejoining Shanks' crew now that he's wanted again, right?


*Re*joining?

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> good to see that most of OL users see through the lies of Mihawk fandom. if you add "them being equal" and "Mihawk being stronger", still Shanks> wins


 if you filter out the voters with less than 400 iq, Mihawk wins with 100% of the vote

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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 29, 2019)

Flame said:


> *Re*joining?



Whose crew do you think he was on before he was a shichibukai?


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## Flame (Sep 29, 2019)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> Whose crew do you think he was on before he was a shichibukai?


Pirate crews have been created in order to match him, not the other way around

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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Even if they didn't duel when Shanks was a Yonko, Mihawk still straight up called him a one armed has been to his face without anyone objecting.



If we ignore the fact that Shanks just challenged Mihawk to a duel and Mihawk calling him a "one armed has-been" was just first of the two excuses he used to avoid that fight, some 8 Million bounty bandit poured alcohol on Shanks and called him a wimp without Shanks or his crew objecting either.

Higuma = top tier confirmed due to totally legit trash talk power scaling.


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## Galyus (Sep 29, 2019)

Thread reminder that every claim that Mihawk isn't at least able to fend off Shanks depends on Birdie as not Zoro's final battle when Mosshead should well be in the league of the Yonkou.


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## Quipchaque (Sep 29, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> good to see that most of OL users see through the lies of Mihawk fandom. if you add "them being equal" and "Mihawk being stronger", still Shanks> wins



Man Fel1x stop being so salty about Mihawk. Why can't you just try enjoy the Manga.

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> If we ignore the fact that Shanks just challenged Mihawk to a duel and Mihawk calling him a "one armed has-been" was just first of the two excuses he used to avoid that fight, some 8 Million bounty bandit poured alcohol on Shanks and called him a wimp without Shanks or his crew objecting either.
> 
> Higuma = top tier confirmed due to totally legit trash talk power scaling.



Mihawk has CoO, which can help determine how strong someone is.

But more importantly...they've actually fucking fought before. Multiple times, in fact. They were such a big deal that a guy like Whitebeard (who fought Roger, Garp, and Sengoku) was singing their praises. I'd trust Mihawk's judgement of Shanks' strength over some ignorant ass East Blue bandit. Even if Shanks wasn't a Yonko in chapter 1, I have a hard time believing that he didn't have a bounty in the hundreds of millions at least. That's enough for people around the world to know who you are.

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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Mihawk has CoO, which can help determine how strong someone is.



So did Shanks, and he didn't see Mihawks as someone he couldn't beat using one arm. TBF, Mihawk's combat applications of CoO hasn't even been impressive when compared to FS.



> But more importantly...they've actually fucking fought before. Multiple times, in fact. They were such a big deal that a guy like Whitebeard (who fought Roger, Garp, and Sengoku) was singing their praises. I'd trust Mihawk's judgement of Shanks' strength over some ignorant ass East Blue bandit. Even if Shanks wasn't a Yonko in chapter 1, I have a hard time believing that he didn't have a bounty in the hundreds of millions at least. That's enough for people around the world to know who you are.



Yeah, none of that means shit if Shanks far surpassed the level he was at when they fought, which was before he reached Yonkou level. Also, the point with the bandit was to show you that Shanks not responding to Mihawk's trash talk/excuse doesn't mean anything.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> So did Shanks, and he didn't see Mihawks as someone he couldn't beat using one arm. TBF, Mihawk's combat applications of CoO hasn't even been impressive when compared to FS.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, none of that means shit if Shanks far surpassed the level he was at when they fought, which was before he reached Yonkou level. Also, the point with the bandit was to show you that Shanks not responding to Mihawk's trash talk/excuse doesn't mean anything.



CoO was inconsistent as hell in Marineford. Everyone was getting sneak attacked when they should've had their CoO activated in a war. Mihawk's wasn't any better or worse than anyone else's during the arc. Especially since he didn't get tagged by anyone or anything.

Shanks initiated the challenge though. When Mihawk showed up Shanks grabbed his sword, apparently being down to fight. And everyone assumes that Shanks grew to Yonko level...but never give the benefit of the doubt to Mihawk. Despite Mihawk being the dude with the title. Now before you say "Who'd Mihawk fight?", you gotta say who Shanks fought. Burden of proof is on you to say he got stronger than the WSS since their duels...especially since Shanks himself said his arm was a  sacrifice.

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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> . And everyone assumes that Shanks grew to Yonko level...but never give the benefit of the doubt to Mihawk.



Because he still doesn't have Yonkou level portrayal. In combat, he has YC level portrayal. All he has is a title that he got from before Shanks reached Yonkou status.



> Despite Mihawk being the dude with the title. Now before you say "Who'd Mihawk fight?", you gotta say who Shanks fought. Burden of proof is on you to say he got stronger than the WSS since their duels...especially since Shanks himself said his arm was a sacrifice.



Shanks reached Yonkou level with one arm and had the portrayal to back it up. Losing the arm was an editor decision and Oda said in an interview he isn't weaker than before he lost the arm. Likewise, burden is on you to prove Mihawk ever reached Yonkou level. As well as to prove WSS title from long ago that he never tested against Yonkou Shanks is still legit. No, narration boxes don't prove anything. Not that hard to keep a title if you refuse challenge from top tiers.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Because he still doesn't have Yonkou level portrayal. In combat, he has YC level portrayal. All he has is a title that he got from before Shanks reached Yonkou status.
> 
> 
> 
> Shanks reached Yonkou level with one arm and had the portrayal to back it up. Losing the arm was an editor decision and Oda said in an interview he isn't weaker than before he lost the arm. Likewise, burden is on you to prove Mihawk ever reached Yonkou level. As well as to prove WSS title from long ago that he never tested against Yonkou Shanks is still legit. No, narration boxes don't prove anything.



People still misquote a data book about Shanks "not losing any strength" from losing an arm?



Oh look, no mention of Shanks "not losing any strength", it just says "he's still powerful" - which nobody is denying. And oh hey, it says Mihawk is Shanks' rival too.

How are narration boxes not proof of a World's Strongest title? Was WB not the WSM? Is Kaido not the WSC? Narration boxes are Word of God. Again, Oda is saying Mihawk > Shanks, you've gotta argue against what Oda said since you're the one trying to argue against it. Nobody in the series even denies Mihawk being the WSS. Other than the narrator boxes, how else are we supposed to prove who's the World's Strongest? Do Kaido/WB/Mihawk need panels of them defeating everyone in their field for proof?

And even if Shanks losing an arm was an editor's decision, Oda could've actually stated in the manga that it wasn't a handicap, but he instead had Shanks tell WB that it was a sacrifice - he bet his dominant arm on Luffy.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> People still misquote a data book about Shanks "not losing any strength" from losing an arm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Narration boxes are not word of God. They are in-verse perceptions. Demaro Black for instance is not Monkey D Luffy despite what his narration box said.


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## Galyus (Sep 29, 2019)

Zoro is not going to train so hard to beat Mihawk just for some other man to be the better swordsman. Get serious.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Narration boxes are not word of God. They are in-verse perceptions. Demaro Black for instance is not Monkey D Luffy despite what his narration box said.



So Zoro’s dream is pointless since the dude with the title isn’t actually the Strongest Swordsman? How sad that in a story about the main cast achieving their dreams the dude that’s been in the story since chapter 3 is the only one that’s gonna fail.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So Zoro’s dream is pointless since the dude with the title isn’t actually the Strongest Swordsman? How sad that in a story about the main cast achieving their dreams the dude that’s been in the story since chapter 3 is the only one that’s gonna fail.


The in-verse perception is that he is WSS. It's not word of God from Oda. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's true. Spare me the emotional argument.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 29, 2019)

Can't wait to see Zoro vs Shanks at EoS

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The in-verse perception is that he is WSS. It's not word of God from Oda. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's true. Spare me the emotional argument.



So how are we supposed to know that Zoro is the WSS if the title doesn’t mean anything?


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## Galyus (Sep 29, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The in-verse perception is that he is WSS. It's not word of God from Oda. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's true. Spare me the emotional argument.



Tell us who Zoro's final enemy will be.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So how are we supposed to know that Zoro is the WSS if the title doesn’t mean anything?


We do what we do with everything else in the manga. We examine the evidence. Mihawk is currently likely the WSS based on the evidence in the manga. He is regarded as WSS according to Vista and others. That doesn't mean it is 100% set in stone. Just that it is more likely than not.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 29, 2019)

Galyus said:


> Tell us who Zoro's final enemy will be.


I am not Oda so Idk. Could be anyone from the Gandhi guy to Shillew to Mihawk.


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## Galyus (Sep 29, 2019)

Shiryu wouldn't have gotten an invisibility fruit if he was supposed to be the better swordsman.


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## Kroczilla (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Even if they didn't duel when Shanks was a Yonko, Mihawk still straight up called him a one armed has been to his face without anyone  objecting.



Nobody objected when some fodder bandits insulted shanks. The red hair pirates generally don't seem to give a darn except when absolutely necessary.


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Because he still doesn't have Yonkou level portrayal. In combat, he has YC level portrayal. All he has is a title that he got from before Shanks reached Yonkou status.


Funny you should say that. The only thing keeping Shanks in the Yonkou level discussion (aside from his fan base) is the fact that he is a Yonkou. We have never seen Shanks fight anyone either. You’re holding MF feats against Mihawk even though he left the war unscathed and was super casual through the whole thing, not even bothering to use Haki on Buggy or *really *go after a pre-ts Luffy. 

Let’s also not forget how Shanks vs Sea King went...





> Shanks reached Yonkou level with one arm and had the portrayal to back it up. Losing the arm was an editor decision and Oda said in an interview he isn't weaker than before he lost the arm. Likewise, burden is on you to prove Mihawk ever reached Yonkou level. As well as to prove WSS title from long ago that he never tested against Yonkou Shanks is still legit. No, narration boxes don't prove anything. Not that hard to keep a title if you refuse challenge from top tiers.


Mihawk’s title is all he needs. If Oda says he’s the WSS then that’s what he is. That’s something that Oda has maintained throughout the entire series. Fujitora is a swordsman. That means Mihawk is stronger. That alone solidifies that Mihawk is a top tier character. We take it a step further, Shanks is a swordsman. You know where this goes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T.D.A (Sep 29, 2019)

Zoro will be stonger than Shanks and Mihawk. That's all that matters.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Sep 29, 2019)

Since when is the WSS weaker than another Swordman?

The dude is for a reason the WSS+he fought Shanks when he was already a Yonko


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## Kroczilla (Sep 29, 2019)

Conxc said:


> The only thing keeping Shanks in the Yonkou level discussion (aside from his fan base) is the fact that he is a Yonkou.






Conxc said:


> We have never seen Shanks fight anyone either.


But we have seen mihawk consistently getting cucked by Younko commanders. Heck even crocodile got in on the action



Conxc said:


> You’re holding MF feats against Mihawk even though he left the war unscathed


So did doffy, hancock, smoker etc.



Conxc said:


> and was super casual through the whole thing,


^^^^^^^



Conxc said:


> Let’s also not forget how Shanks vs Sea King went...


Shanks chose to sacrifice his arm. Mihawk didn't choose to get cucked by jozu, vista and crocodile. It just happened.



Conxc said:


> Mihawk’s title is all he needs. If Oda says he’s the WSS then that’s what he is.


Whitebeard was called the WSM but clearly had folks who could fight on par with him.
Not to mention wielding a sword doesn't necessarily make one a swordsman (see big mom, whitebeard, raileigh etc.)



Conxc said:


> Fujitora is a swordsman. That means Mihawk is stronger.


Fujitora also has a DF which he tends to abuse. Given mihawk's history with younko commanders...


Conxc said:


> That alone solidifies that Mihawk is a top tier character


I mean, sabo just beat fuji like a drum so it doesn't seem to be a particularly impressive feat atm



Conxc said:


> We take it a step further, Shanks is a swordsman. You know where this goes.






Shanks4Life said:


> he fought Shanks when he was already a Yonko



Seems like someone didn't get the memo.


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## Zuhaitz (Sep 29, 2019)

Shanks4Life said:


> Since when is the WSS weaker than another Swordman?
> 
> The dude is for a reason the WSS+he fought Shanks when he was already a Yonko


No, he didn't.


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## Draffut (Sep 29, 2019)

Wait, someone actually thinks Mihawk is stronger than Shanks?  That's not a joke?

What the hell is wrong with you people?


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## Canute87 (Sep 29, 2019)

Shanks being a yonkou in romance dawn was complete bullshit.


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

@Kroczilla Hey Kroc. Glad to see that your strong suit is still posting smileys rather than an argument. Talk to me when you’ve got something, bud.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 29, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Can't wait to see Zoro vs Shanks at EoS



9 swords vs 1. 

Not even a contest. Shanks will be low diffed I imagine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Sep 29, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Funny you should say that. The only thing keeping Shanks in the Yonkou level discussion (aside from his fan base) is the fact that he is a Yonkou.


Wait... am I reading this right?
@Amol
You seem like quite the intellect, please rephrase this for me.
Thanks x


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Wait... am I reading this right?
> @Amol
> You seem like quite the intellect, please rephrase this for me.
> Thanks x


The one I responded to made a claim that all Mihawk has is his title, and no combat feats. That’s ironic because without Shanks’ title of Yonkou, would he be rated so high despite his own luck of combat feats?


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## Beast (Sep 29, 2019)

Conxc said:


> The one I responded to made a claim that all Mihawk has is his title, and no combat feats. That’s ironic because without Shanks’ title of Yonkou, would he be rated so high despite his own luck of combat feats?


He stopped a war between the best top tiers.  What has Mihawk done? 

Wasn’t you trying to downplay Garp because he didn’t have any solid feats only hype? 
Why are you so different with Mihawk?


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> He stopped a war between the best top tiers.  What has Mihawk done?
> 
> Wasn’t you trying to downplay Garp because he didn’t have any solid feats only hype?
> Why are you so different with Mihawk?


He came into a war late after one side had clearly already lost and the other side was worn down while he was fresh. That’s probably the single most overrated “feat” in this series.

Nah, I acknowledge Garp’s strength and it’d be stupid to question it. He’s got tons of hype. I only question his heart.


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## Beast (Sep 29, 2019)

Conxc said:


> He came into a war late after one side had clearly already lost and the other side was worn down while he was fresh. That’s probably the single most overrated “feat” in this series.
> 
> Nah, I acknowledge Garp’s strength and it’d be stupid to question it. He’s got tons of hype. I only question his heart.


Are you willing to bet that if MIHAWK had stopped Akainu and said let’s end this war... would the war actually stop? Would Akainu turn tails? Sengoku clearly said because ITS YOU RH, he listened, Kaidou or Bm wouldn’t get the same respect.


On a serious note, what makes you question his will?


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Are you willing to bet that if MIHAWK had stopped Akainu and said let’s end this war... would the war actually stop? Would Akainu turn tails? Sengoku clearly said because ITS YOU RH, he listened, Kaidou or Bm wouldn’t get the same respect.
> 
> 
> On a serious note, what makes you question his will?


You know the answer to that. GoatHawk would make Akainu shit his pants. Sengoku cooperated with Shanks likely because he’s a goodie two shoes. Remember when Shanks went to snitch to the Gorosei about somebody? They also said “because it’s you...” but if Kaido’s or BM would have shown up there they probably would have fought them.

As for Garp, he’s cool, and liked by everyone, yes, but he doesn’t have the charisma that Luffy or Dragon have. Luffy turned a pirate hunter into his first mate. Made Crocodile go against an Admiral to save him. Made Jinbe believe in him and lay down his life. Turned Bon-Chan into an ally who also sacrificed himself. Dragon recruits guys like Iva and Kuma. Garp obviously has the support of his Marines, but that’s their job. He couldn’t even turn either of his grandsons in his favor career wise, not even as impressionable children. Speaking of Ace, he also let Roger bitch him into taking care of his child and going against his morals and duties as a Marine to hide and raise him. He also allowed his co-workers to attempt to kill Ace and eventually kill Ace and now he works under, willingly, the very man who he claimed he would have killed for killing his grandson. He’s got no balls.


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## Beast (Sep 29, 2019)

Conxc said:


> You know the answer to that. GoatHawk would make Akainu shit his pants. Sengoku cooperated with Shanks likely because he’s a goodie two shoes. Remember when Shanks went to snitch to the Gorosei about somebody? They also said “because it’s you...” but if Kaido’s or BM would have shown up there they probably would have fought them.
> 
> As for Garp, he’s cool, and liked by everyone, yes, but he doesn’t have the charisma that Luffy or Dragon have. Luffy turned a pirate hunter into his first mate. Made Crocodile go against an Admiral to save him. Made Jinbe believe in him and lay down his life. Turned Bon-Chan into an ally who also sacrificed himself. Dragon recruits guys like Iva and Kuma. Garp obviously has the support of his Marines, but that’s their job. He couldn’t even turn either of his grandsons in his favor career wise, not even as impressionable children. Speaking of Ace, he also let Roger bitch him into taking care of his child and going against his morals and duties as a Marine to hide and raise him. He also allowed his co-workers to attempt to kill Ace and eventually kill Ace and now he works under, willingly, the very man who he claimed he would have killed for killing his grandson. He’s got no balls.


Lol, you know Akainu is only afraid of yonko tier pirates, Worlds strongest title don’t scare him. 

 
If you’re talking about having CoC, I don’t think Garp has it either. Dragon is as bland as the colour white. Garp does have charisma though, that was the whole reason the CDs couldn’t do anything against him other than his strength of course.


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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Lol, you know Akainu is only afraid of yonko tier pirates, Worlds strongest title don’t scare him.
> 
> 
> If you’re talking about having CoC, I don’t think Garp has it either. Dragon is as bland as the colour white. Garp does have charisma though, that was the whole reason the CDs couldn’t do anything against him other than his strength of course.


If Akainu didn’t already get his shit kicked in by WB, I don’t think he would have reacted the same to Shanks. Old WB > Shanks, and while fresh, Sakazuki wanted all the smoke.

Ehh. He’s still gutless.


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## Sablés (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Yeah, none of that means shit if Shanks far surpassed the level


I've always thought this argument was pretty funny. Whenever anyone brings up Shanks' arm, it's that he "didn't get any weaker" or he didn't lose any strength or that he sacrificed the arm to bet hopes on Luffy. Notice how there isn't ever, anywhere, a comment directly stating Shanks actually got stronger after losing the arm? I'd say that'd be a damn more impressing remark to Whitebeard if it was the case.

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## Steven (Sep 29, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, he didn't.


Databook...


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## Kroczilla (Sep 29, 2019)

@Conxc buddy, its not my fault mihawk keeps taking Ls from YC tier opponents. 
You should take that up with Oda.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> @Conxc buddy, its not my fault mihawk keeps taking Ls from YC tier opponents.
> You should take that up with Oda.



Who’d Mihawk take an L from? Jozu blocking his slash? BM was blocked by Chopper and Jimbei. Clashing with Vista? The same clash he was monologuing about Luffy during?

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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Who’d Mihawk take an L from? Jozu blocking his slash? BM was blocked by Chopper and Jimbei. Clashing with Vista? The same clash he was monologuing about Luffy during?


Don’t bother. Trust me. He’ll never get it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 29, 2019)

62 votes for Shanks

The OL Tierspecialist´s strikes back


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## Gibbs (Sep 29, 2019)

Always going to be a discussion until these 2 face off

[HASHTAG]#gibbs[/HASHTAG]


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Sep 29, 2019)

Mihawk is the best swordsman. He can do things with a sword that no one else can. However in an all out fight he would lose to Shanks. Shanks being purely swordsman is unlikely. My theory is that he is currently the only person who has mastered Conqueror's Haki, whatever that means. There has to be more to it than just knocking out fodder. It's currently the most useless type of Haki, despite being the most hyped and rarest.


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## Flame (Sep 29, 2019)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> Shanks being purely swordsman is unlikely.


What does that mean? how is it unlikely when he hasn't shown even once any other form of fighting style? 

There are more chances of him being one rather than not.

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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Sep 29, 2019)

Flame said:


> What does that mean? how is it unlikely when he hasn't shown even once any other form of fighting style?
> 
> There are more chances of him being one rather than not.


Shanks is one of the biggest players in a shonen manga with magic powers. Him just swinging around a very normal looking sword is unlikely in my opinion.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Flame said:


> What does that mean? how is it unlikely when he hasn't shown even once any other form of fighting style?
> 
> There are more chances of him being one rather than not.



And even if he incorporates a DF or martial arts or some shit into his fighting style, he'd still be a swordsman. Kaku was a giraffe-martial artist-assassin swordsman, and Fujitora is a Gravity DF using swordsman. So even if he does more than swing a sword, it's not like it changes his fighting style


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## Kroczilla (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Jozu blocking his slash? BM was blocked by Chopper and Jimbei.



>Ignores the fact that big mom was extremely weakened 
>Attempts comparing a casual attack from a weakened bigmom to an attack mihawk intended to test the WSM with.
[HASHTAG]#fail[/HASHTAG]



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Clashing with Vista? The same clash he was monologuing about Luffy during?



So mihawk's internal monologue somehow reduces his combat ability? 
Also mihawk's fight with vista lasted quite a bit whereas his monologue about luffy's deadly ability was quite brief.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> >Ignores the fact that big mom was extremely weakened
> >Attempts comparing a casual attack from a weakened bigmom to an attack mihawk intended to test the WSM with.
> [HASHTAG]#fail[/HASHTAG]
> 
> ...



>Ignores the fact that Mihawk says he never goes all out to hunt a rabbit
>How often in this series do people start a fight with their most powerful move? Luffy used G3 against Kaido before he went into G4 and Kaido proved to be >> Luffy

How is Mihawk clashing with Vista an L? He didn't take damage from anyone in MF and nobody started to doubt Mihawk's title in the series after MF. Only the fans doubt it for some reason.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Yes he is far more credible than you and Sengoku did not contradict him.



Btw this is your quote about Shanks' crew's strength from another thread. You believe what people say in the manga about Shanks' top guys, yet you don't trust it when it says Mihawk > Shanks?


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> You believe what people say in the manga about Shanks' top guys, yet you don't trust it when it says Mihawk > Shanks?


Stop lying. If that kind of statement had been made, this thread wouldn't exist. I can admit I don't know whether Mihawk or Shanks is stronger, I can only guess. It's really fucking annoying when people think their opinions and theories are 100% facts.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 29, 2019)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> Stop lying. If that kind of statement had been made, this thread wouldn't exist. I can admit I don't know whether Mihawk or Shanks is stronger, I can only guess. It's really fucking annoying when people think their opinions and theories are 100% facts.



Mihawk is the WSS, Shanks by all accounts is a swordsman. That kinda implies Mihawk > Shanks


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Mihawk is the WSS, Shanks by all accounts is a swordsman. That kinda implies Mihawk > Shanks


That's a lot of assumptions about a man who has never fought on screen. What about the statement about Shanks being one of the 4 strongest pirates, by Garp. Doesn't mean anything?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 29, 2019)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> That's a lot of assumptions about a man who has never fought on screen. What about the statement about Shanks being one of the 4 strongest pirates, by Garp. Doesn't mean anything?



A lot of assumptions?

The only assumptions is assuming that Shanks is something he is not shown, implied, or hinted at having. That's not saying Shanks cant have them but it hasent been shown?

For all we know Mihawk has the Mythic Zoan Human Model: Dracule fruit. You ain't gonna see me go around here saying he has any fruit for that matter or hidden skill cause nothing suggest he has one.

Prime Garp would fist Shanks to death and doesn't have a devil fruit or some special genetics like big mom(and most likely kaidou). So Shanks being a yonkou isn't a arguement for him having some moveset outside of swordsmanship.

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## Steven (Sep 29, 2019)

Do Mihawk even count as a pirate?

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## ImpalerDragon (Sep 29, 2019)

Shanks by far more powerful. Shanks is yonko Mihawk not. Shanks duel mihawk when he was weak then he lose his arm and never duel again. Shanks then grow into yonko strenght and mihawk remained at yonkou commandment vista level.

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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 29, 2019)

Heart Over Blade said:


> TBF, Mihawk's combat applications of CoO hasn't even been impressive when compared to FS.



I'm not sure about this, and I'm gonna step outside of the Watsonian perspective here so bear with me.

First, Mihawk is one of the cats who came out of Marineford unscathed. He never went head to head with Whitebeard, but in his clash with his commanders he was unharmed and seemingly unfazed. People act like Mihawk was somehow shamed fighting Vista, but frankly, he seemed more charmed to be fighting him. "_I would be a fool if I did not (know your name)._" That's an immense show of respect from the man who doesn't remember the name of every insect he crushes. Remember Mihawk has a critical personal problem of being bored to tears with all these so called Swordsmen roaming around thinking they're gonna beat him. I think he was genuinely thrilled to fight Vista and see what he's got, and so even if he could've won, let the battle play out so he could enjoy himself against a high quality swordsman.

Second, Mihawk seems to have easily displayed Kenbunshoku foresight, being able to easily anticipate Luffy Gear Second movements before they were even made.

Thirdly, from the production perspective, Mihawk's epithet wasn't Hawkeyes on creation, he was originally going to be called "The Clairvoyant", which to me indicates that at some point Future Sight was going to be part of his character.

Another fascinating point, people with strong Future Foresight Kenbunshoku Haki tend to be mouthy about it, intimidating their opponents by calling out their moves before they've made them. Mihawk is the quintessential strong and silent type...he don't say shit. So even if he did use it, without having a portion of the battle from his perspective, you wouldn't have any real inkling on him having Future Foresight until it's too late.



Seraphoenix said:


> The in-verse perception is that he is WSS. It's not word of God from Oda. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it's true. Spare me the emotional argument.



Well, you have to admit Oda's been extremely consistent about it. No person in universe, even other powerful swordsman have ever disputed his title or his credentials.



Conxc said:


> As for Garp, he’s cool, and liked by everyone, yes, but he doesn’t have the charisma that Luffy or Dragon have.



I don't know, his popularity and record have basically made him immune to resprisal from even the Tenryubito, despite having some pretty intolerable views about them. It could simply be that he has expended all of his political capital keeping his career and standing. In addition by refusing promotion to Admiral he doesn't actually have the authority, even if he has the pull to pull something like stopping a war.



Sablés said:


> I've always thought this argument was pretty funny. Whenever anyone brings up Shanks' arm, it's that he "didn't get any weaker" or he didn't lose any strength or that he sacrificed the arm to bet hopes on Luffy. Notice how there isn't ever, anywhere, a comment directly stating Shanks actually got stronger after losing the arm? I'd say that'd be a damn more impressing remark to Whitebeard if it was the case.



Well, I think now there's logical inference that he got stronger, especially if he became a Yonko six years after he lost his arm. That would imply that he did get stronger.



Shanks4Life said:


> Do Mihawk even count as a pirate?



He's a pirate alright.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sablés (Sep 29, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Well, I think now there's logical inference that he got stronger, especially if he became a Yonko six years after he lost his arm. That would imply that he did get stronger.


Possible but not definite, like literally everything about this dumb argument that people seem to love. When Shanks' status as a Yonkou was mentioned in the chapter, Sengoku speaks about the red hair executives and how balanced the crew is. And as we know, there's more to being a Yonkou that being a powerhouse. The one who actually gets singled out for becoming one due to strength, isn't Shanks. It's Kaidou.

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## Conxc (Sep 29, 2019)

@Amatérasu’s Son That’s definitely something, but I think that might have more to do with him being the epitome of a career man. He’s the strongest (greatest) Marine in the history of the Marines. Despite who he might be personally, politically it’d be crazy to fire a guy like that.

What I mean by charisma is basically what Mihawk described as the most dangerous ability: the ability to rally allies, even bitter enemies (Crocodile, Mr. 2) and other powerful individuals (WB, Jinbe etc.) and get them on his side. 

Edit: In a way you could argue that Garp successfully rallied Roger to his side, but going off the Ace situation, this is speculation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Roger approached Garp and convinced him to join forces rather than the other way around.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Sep 29, 2019)

Sablés said:


> Possible but not definite, like literally everything about this dumb argument that people seem to love. When Shanks' status as a Yonkou was mentioned in the chapter, Sengoku speaks about the red hair executives and how balanced the crew is. And as we know, there's more to being a Yonkou that being a powerhouse. The one who actually gets singled out for becoming one due to strength, isn't Shanks. It's Kaidou.



True, but individual power in the captain is incredibly important in any pirate crew.

That said, as I've said before, Luffy is following what was modeled to him by Shanks, and to Shanks by Roger. You build a powerhouse team of badasses and specialists who can cover all angles to get to the top.

The real question comes down to what allowed Shanks to cross that threshold to be considered a Yonko. Was it a battle won, a territory acquired, did he stop some other Yonko from doing something?



Conxc said:


> @Amatérasu’s Son That’s definitely something, but I think that might have more to do with him being the epitome of a career man. He’s the strongest (greatest) Marine in the history of the Marines. Despite who he might be personally, politically it’d be crazy to fire a guy like that.
> 
> What I mean by charisma is basically what Mihawk described as the most dangerous ability: the ability to rally allies, even bitter enemies (Crocodile, Mr. 2) and other powerful individuals (WB, Jinbe etc.) and get them on his side.
> 
> Edit: In a way you could argue that Garp successfully rallied Roger to his side, but going off the Ace situation, this is speculation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Roger approached Garp and convinced him to join forces rather than the other way around.



Yeah the question still remains to be answered if he has Haoshoku Haki, the great mark of that ability. 

But Garp certainly has mentored people and has admirers. Kuzan particularly idolized Garp coming up. It's a bit different to tell seeing as how Garp is always surrounded by Marines that are either his subordinates or can't boss him around. We'd need to see more of his career and interactions with people in order to really see if he has "it".

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## Kroczilla (Sep 29, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> >Ignores the fact that Mihawk says he never goes all out to hunt a rabbit


>Attributing a statement made about East blue zoro to WB and Vista
>Ignores the fact that mihawk acknowledged vista.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> >How often in this series do people start a fight with their most powerful move? Luffy used G3 against Kaido before he went into G4 and Kaido proved to be >> Luffy


You do realize that all this proves is that neither mihawk or vista was going all out right?
Also a younko doesn't need to go all out to body a mere YC tier opponent.


Cyrus the Cactus said:


> How is Mihawk clashing with Vista an L?


 >fact that vista came out unscathed
>Fact that even BM would reduce vista to a bloody smear while playing around.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> He didn't take damage from anyone in MF


As i pointed out to your boi @Conxc , load of people avoided taking damage during MF. It really isn't an impressive feat.
The more impressive feat would be ending MF which shanks did just by being there.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> and nobody started to doubt Mihawk's title in the series after MF.


Nobody doubts that mihawk is the WSS though. Just stating facts that shanks is stronger.
Being WSS doesn't automatically put mihawk above everyone who uses a sword in some fashion.
For example WB's bisento counts as a sword in the OP verse (shown to be among the 12 supreme grade) yet mihawk himself seemed pretty certain WB was above him.
As I've said, just being WSS only gets you so far as folks (like zoro and vista) who are fully dedicated to the sword arts (hence their eagerness to test their skills against the best of their class). It clearly was never meant to account for people who merely incorporate bladed weapons into their combat style.


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## cdnab (Sep 30, 2019)

Amol said:


> Hey don't look at me. Someone was going to do it and I at least didn't try to pretend topic was something different when it really was just Shanks Vs Mihawk.
> So Mihawk has never ever fought Yonkou Shanks. He only fought with Shanks who was not big enough of Pirate given WG gave no shit about his where about which they will now give. It means Mihawk really has no idea how strong Shanks is.
> So what do you all think about this development?
> Let the bloodbath begin.



That's not correct. The databook never stated Shanks was Yonko 12 years ago. It says it's unknown.

At this time there is no evidence to support or deny if Mihawk ever dueled Shanks after he became a Yonko. All we know is in the official translation (Viz) Mihawk refused to duel Shanks when he asked him to fight because he considers him a one-armed has been. That happened when they meet in early pre timeskip. Shanks was a Yonko at that time.

I believe Mihawk and Yonko Shanks did duel for the following reasons.
- 1 Mihawk called Yonko Shanks a "one-armed has been" and that's the reason he won't duel him anymore. Typically, when someone (Mihawk) calls another person a "has-been" (Yonko Shanks) that means they have experience whatever the has-been was good at and based on their experience they determined the has-been no longer lives up to their expectation.
- 2 Since Shanks became a Yonko after he lost his arm, which is a clear indication he grew stronger, that makes me believe Mihawk fought Yonko Shanks.

Mihawk is stronger but only slightly.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Galyus (Sep 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> If you’re talking about having CoC, I don’t think Garp has it either. Dragon is as bland as the colour white. Garp does have charisma though, that was the whole reason the CDs couldn’t do anything against him other than his strength of course.



Charisma? Or connections?


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## Kroczilla (Sep 30, 2019)

cdnab said:


> The databook never stated Shanks was Yonko 12 years ago.



Did people not read the lastest chapter or are they just in denial.


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## Cliffiffillite44428 (Sep 30, 2019)

Shanks uses his Haoshoku Haki and proceeds to shit as he has the better physical power so yea. Kappa


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2019)

Shanks lost against a fish,good feat,strong yonkou

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Sep 30, 2019)

Going *through *the entire war unscathed isn’t impressive, but “ending” a war that was *clearly *already over is? You gotta take a break from OL sometimes man, lmfao.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2019)

Shanks fans are still salty about the truth that he is the weakest yonkou


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## Kroczilla (Sep 30, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Going *through *the entire war he barely participated in unscathed isn’t impressive


Yes. A whole bunch of mofos went through MF unscathed. Even buggy the clown.




Conxc said:


> ending” a war that was *clearly *already over is?


Except people were still killing each other and luffy wasn't dead yet which was a marine priority at the time.
Please stop reaching. Its embarrassing.
Also if you've got something to say to me, do so.


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (Sep 30, 2019)

It really is far too early to say. We know Shanks only by reputation and by the fact that him being a Yonko requires him to be really powerful. However we have never seen him engaged in any real fight. The extend of his abilities are completely unknown. We don't know if he has a devil fruit, we don't know if he fights through might or skill, we don't know any of his attacks and we've seen very little feats. 

And Mihawks isn't entirely different. Unlike Shanks we did see him in combat but it are mostly background fights or fights he doesn't take remotely seriously. Most of his clashes in the war arc are skipped and he wasn't exactly trying in his first fight with Zoro either. 

Its likely either of these former rivals showed even a hint of what they are really capable off so at this point in time there's nothing to talk about.


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## Conxc (Sep 30, 2019)

I’m sorry, who’d Buggy fight again? Mihawk was in the middle of everything. Is it a top tier feat? No, but impressive, especially since he’s the only guy that faced someone as strong as a top WB commander and left untouched.

Anyway, the war was over. Whitebeard was dead, and Ace, the whole point of the war, was dead. Akainu went fishing. It’s obvious that the war was over, to those with reading comp at least.

Also, I’m gonna keep talking in the air. Why? Because that shoe is fitting like a mofo, so you know when I’m addressing you, bud.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> Yes. A whole bunch of mofos went through MF unscathed. Even buggy the clown.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Answer this question:

Is Mihawk the WSS,yes or no

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 30, 2019)

Zoro wont take a fraud title. He is a main char and Odq wont make him realise a false dream.

It's like saying Luffy will become PK by discovering a false One piece (the true reminding hidden) , or sanji founding All blue , yet it will be revealef some years after his death it was the wrong sea.

Every starwhats will realise his dream. Zoro dream is not only to known , but also to *become *the WSS.

If mihawk is not WSS, then Zoro dream is pointless. Whoever swordman fight Zoro in EoS will be a stronger swordman than shanks and anybody else.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 30, 2019)

SasukexSakura17 said:


> Zoro wont take a fraud title. He is a main char and Odq wont make him realise a false dream.
> 
> It's like saying Luffy will become PK by discovering a false One piece (the true reminding hidden) , or sanji founding All blue , yet it will be revealef some years after his death it was the wrong sea.
> 
> ...



Yep. Zoro's dream > Shanks' power level.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Sep 30, 2019)

SasukexSakura17 said:


> Zoro wont take a fraud title. He is a main char and Odq wont make him realise a false dream.
> 
> It's like saying Luffy will become PK by discovering a false One piece (the true reminding hidden) , or sanji founding All blue , yet it will be revealef some years after his death it was the wrong sea.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Problem is; it is not clearly defined by Oda, what constitutes the WSS. 
Is it someone who fights only using swords?
Do other bladed weapon count?
Does it require a specific technique to be counted as swordsmanship?
Is it just about the mindset?

Back in the day, people could live with the thought of Mihawk being (one of) the single most powerful individuals, because the power gaps were much smaller and having a crew of weaker pirates still counted for something. It was easier to rationalize that he just didn’t care about pirating enough to be a global threat. 

In this day and age where a captain (yonko) can seemingly obliterate his own crew and commanders with ease; it’s difficult to argue that Mihawk being up there, especially after the rather poor show at MF.


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2019)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Agreed. Problem is; it is not clearly defined by Oda, what constitutes the WSS.
> Is it someone who fights only using swords?
> Do other bladed weapon count?
> Does it require a specific technique to be counted as swordsmanship?
> ...


Shanks was allready a yonkou back in the old days and Mihawk was his rival

Mihawk also waits for someone who is stronger than Shanks


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## Sayonara (Sep 30, 2019)

It does changes things .

Shanks became a yonkou after he lost his arm. This implies he got stronger  since the time he fought Mihawk.

 I don't think oda would give Mihawk fake title . It's odd to think that Shanks became stronger swordsman after losing an arm.  So I would say this reinforces the    "shanks is more than just swordsman"  theory . Shanks can legitelly be stronger then Mihawk without being WSS.


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## Steven (Sep 30, 2019)

Losing your arms makes you now stronger?Nice logic,i guess if you lose both arms you are the strongest of all

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 30, 2019)

Sayonara said:


> It does changes things .
> 
> Shanks became a yonkou after he lost his arm. This implies he got stronger  since the time he fought Mihawk.
> 
> I don't think oda would give Mihawk fake title . It's odd to think that Shanks became stronger swordsman after losing an arm.  So I would say this reinforces the    "shanks is more than just swordsman"  theory . Shanks can legitelly be stronger then Mihawk without being WSS.



What else could Shanks have that would prevent him from being a swordsman though? He's had a unicycle riding circus freak using fire breath and tops be a swordsman, a martial artist giraffe assassin be a swordsman, a Gravity fruit using blind gambler be a swordsman, and a guy that uses a sword in his mouth with just his physical strength and haki be a swordsman.


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## savior2005 (Sep 30, 2019)

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I think the Shanks vs Mihawk is similar to Mugen vs Jin from Samurai Champloo.

While Mihawk/Jin is the superior swordsman/samurai from a technical standpoint, Shanks/Mugen can at least fight on par due to their unique fighting style.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Sep 30, 2019)

You know what.. this thread has opened my eyes. I mean, how do we even know for sure that zoro is a swordsman? I’m pretty sure he’s hiding a Rinnegan. Forget what we’ve known for the last 20 years.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Moldrew (Sep 30, 2019)

You guys laugh, but take away Shanks’s sword, and he WILL be firing Conquerer’s Haki beams, doing Haki telekinesis and force fields, and who knows what else.
He’s not gonna be “Mihawk, but with one arm, yet still a Yonko”.
 The dude has tricks up his sleeve. His fighting style being cut and dry swordsmanship isn’t really an option.
They’re still probably equal overall.


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## Sayonara (Sep 30, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> What else could Shanks have that would prevent him from being a swordsman though? He's had a unicycle riding circus freak using fire breath and tops be a swordsman, a martial artist giraffe assassin be a swordsman, a Gravity fruit using blind gambler be a swordsman, and a guy that uses a sword in his mouth with just his physical strength and haki be a swordsman.



I am not sure either, but I would guess it all happened after he lost his arm. Up until this point I have always said Mihawk has got to be yonkou level because of his legendary clashes with yonkou Shanks.

Recent chapter changes things. Whether you still want to believe Mihawk=> Shanks or Mihawk is yonkou level , you have got to accept that one of most convincing arguments we had for this conclusion is now gone.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 30, 2019)

I never really thought it was too convincing. 

what’s most convincing to me is the title being Zoro’s dream, vivre card entry, and Oda talking about WB, Shanks, and Mihawk being in a 1v1v1

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Conxc said:


> I’m sorry, who’d Buggy fight again? Mihawk was in the middle of everything


He wasn't though. Whereas buggy was quite literally in the middle of everything and was responsible for broadcasting several moments of the war which the WG wanted to hid.


Conxc said:


> Is it a top tier feat? No, but impressive, especially since he’s the only guy that faced someone as strong as a top WB commander and left untouched.


And big mom absolutely shat all over a legit YC2 commander and destroyed luffy's haki field with literally just brute strength. Coming unscathed from fighting vista is in no way impressive when you take into account the hype y'all are trying to put on mihawk.
Akainu quite literally plowed through nearly every single WB commander at the same time, yet was scared of challenging shanks. 

Please just stop. Y'all mihawk fanboys are getting desperate at this point
Heck several of you are still in denial and keep claiming mihawk fought younko shanks despite oda literally lolnoping that retarded data book entry.



Conxc said:


> Anyway, the war was over. Whitebeard was dead, and Ace, the whole point of the war, was dead. Akainu went fishing. It’s obvious that the war was over, to those with reading comp at least.


Go reread marineford. The moment sengoku announced luffy's lineage, just about every marine decided he had to die. Heck they kept going after him even when shanks showed up.
Even without taking that fact into account, the war was arguably even more fierce after WB died. Even smoker pointed out that something felt off as nighas were just murdering each other and coby got overwhelmed by it all, not to mention black beard and his crew showed up and started wrecking shit.
If the war was truly over, there would have been no need for coby's speech in the first place.




Shanks4Life said:


> Is Mihawk the WSS,yes or no



Clearly the OPverse definition of a swordsman is much more narrow that what you are trying to imply.
WB used a sword and was WSM. Why wasn't he also awarded the WSS title since even mihawk thought WB was stronger.


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## Gledania (Oct 1, 2019)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Agreed. Problem is; it is not clearly defined by Oda, what constitutes the WSS.
> Is it someone who fights only using swords?
> Do other bladed weapon count?
> Does it require a specific technique to be counted as swordsmanship?
> Is it just about the mindset?




Someone who use a sword to fight.

Let assume WB use a sword (including haki btw) and no gura, no kick , No CoC (not sure if this one change something tho) no punch , gun  or whatever  ..... and fight the WSS only with a sword. Then the WSS should win in here. Same for Kizaru.

A WSS is someone who would beat ANYONE in a sword m fight.

Given CoA , reactivity , speed are ALL a part of Swordmanship in one piece the true holder of the WSS should be able to win against ANY other fighter in a sword fight.


It does not take on count :
Law Fujitora WB Kizaru ect Devil Fruit
Whatever fighting style not related to swordmanship

EoS zoro would defeat Shanks in a sword fight 100%.

As for Mihawk , it depend wether you believe he is or not the current *true *WSS.
The databook says he is on name *and actuality. So for me he is.*


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Agreed. Problem is; it is not clearly defined by Oda, what constitutes the WSS.
> Is it someone who fights only using swords?
> Do other bladed weapon count?
> Does it require a specific technique to be counted as swordsmanship?
> Is it just about the mindset?



My two cents.

A swordsman in the OPverse IMHO, is someone whose entire fighting style and combat ability revolves solely on the use of a sword.
Fact is there's folks who rely almost entirely on a sword in all facets of combat whereas other merely use swords to *complement* their fighting style and would honestly be just as effective with any other weapon. Much the same way the douriki ranking system doesn't account for special abilities or specialities, the title of WSS clearly doesn't account for folks who fall into the latter category.

Take for instance, zoro and kaku. Zoro is a true swordsman. His entire life and combat ability relies solely on his skill in using a sword. Constrast with kaku. Yes he was known as the cp9 swordsman, but was honestly much closer to a martial artist than an actual swordsman. He could utilise he most powerful moves without a sword and had several other specialized skills other than swordsmanship. 
Same with law, fujitora, big mom and WB. They all use weapons classified as swords but clearly only use same to complement their powerful DFs (and strength in big mom's case) and would be just fine with any other weapon.
Give fujitora a staff and he would still be just as effective. Same if you gave law a glaive, or big mom, an axe, or WB a hammer.

But someone like zoro (and vista/mihawk) would have their combat ability severely reduced without a sword as every single skill set in their arsenal revolves round the use of a sword (s).
Heck during the davy fight back arc when zoro was unarmed, he still used a swordlike technique (basically used his opponent as a pseudo blade) whereas someone like law would just use shambles and call it a day.


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## Gledania (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> A swordsman in the OPverse IMHO, is someone whose entire fighting style and combat ability revolves solely on the use of a sword.



No. It's someone who fight with a sword.
Kizaru is a swordman. WSS should put Mihawk above him in a sword fight.

Law stated himself he is a swordman while fighting tashigi. (Telling her she is more a swordwoman in name than facts ... if he wasn't a swordman doubt he would judge her on a swordmanship criteria if he had nothing to do with swordmanship ).

WSS Zoro make zoro above anyone in a swordmanship fight. Means if shanks fighg him EoS Zoro with a sword , he should lose.

If you believe Mihawk is indeed the WSS , it means he would beat WB in a sword only fight (no gura). If you think he's not then it's another story.


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## Steven (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> He wasn't though. Whereas buggy was quite literally in the middle of everything and was responsible for broadcasting several moments of the war which the WG wanted to hid.
> 
> And big mom absolutely shat all over a legit YC2 commander and destroyed luffy's haki field with literally just brute strength. Coming unscathed from fighting vista is in no way impressive when you take into account the hype y'all are trying to put on mihawk.
> Akainu quite literally plowed through nearly every single WB commander at the same time, yet was scared of challenging shanks.
> ...


WB was not a swordfighter wtf

A Bisento is not a sword


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## Gledania (Oct 1, 2019)

Shanks4Life said:


> WB was not a swordfighter wtf




His weapon was one of the 12 greatest blades


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## Steven (Oct 1, 2019)

SasukexSakura17 said:


> His weapon was one of the 12 greatest blades


Irrelevant

Bisentos are no swords


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

SasukexSakura17 said:


> No. It's someone who fight with a sword.


It seems i wasn't as clear in making my point as i thought. 



SasukexSakura17 said:


> Kizaru is a swordman. WSS should put Mihawk above him in a sword fight.


Key word "in a sword fight" i.e. not accounting for all of kizaru's exotic abilities. Hence why i likened it to the douriki ranking system which doesn't take into account special abilities of a character.


SasukexSakura17 said:


> Law stated himself he is a swordman while fighting tashigi. (Telling her she is more a swordwoman in name than facts ... if he wasn't a swordman doubt he would judge her on a swordmanship criteria if he had nothing to do with swordmanship ).


Okay, lets start here. Which would be a bigger handicap for law, losing his sword or losing his op DF. Be honest.
As i also pointed out, kaku was called the cp9 swordsman but unlike zoro, had a plethora of other skills and abilities and didn't need a sword to fight on par with zoro but zoro definitely needed his swords to even threaten kaku. See the difference?
Also i interpreted law's statement to tashigi as him calling out her lack of strength, even stating that "the weak don't choose how they die".
No doubt law is a skilled swordsman, but without his DF, even smoker would body him.



SasukexSakura17 said:


> WSS Zoro make zoro above anyone in a swordmanship fight. Means if shanks fighg him EoS Zoro with a sword , he should lose.



Not really in the mood for this. Lets focus on mihawk shall we?



SasukexSakura17 said:


> If you believe Mihawk is indeed the WSS , it means he would beat WB in a sword only fight (no gura). If you think he's not then it's another story


This is basically the crux of my point in a way. Several so called swordsmen, similar to WB, only use a sword to complement their fighting ability and would hardly suffer a hindrance without it. Hence while mihawk is rightly the WSS, his title cannot be said to take into account abilities outside the realm of swordsmanship, which shanks is hinted to possess



Shanks4Life said:


> WB was not a swordfighter wtf
> 
> A Bisento is not a sword



*Sigh* a bisento is also known as a in fuedal japan.


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## Admiral Akanezumi (Oct 1, 2019)

Shanks4Life said:


> Irrelevant
> 
> Bisentos are no swords


Agreed, but this makes the whole discussion unnecessary complex. 

Is there a WSB; world’s strongest bisento fighter?
One for every weapon type or why are swords singled out?


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## Gledania (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> which shanks is hinted to possess



Agree with your post exept this. Shanks may have other fighting style or DF or whatever,  *but may as well not.
*
I don't remember any *hint* about his fighting style being other than swordmanship.


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## Conxc (Oct 1, 2019)

I’ll quote you once because there’s a lot to unpack here.


Kroczilla said:


> He wasn't though. Whereas buggy was quite literally in the middle of everything and was responsible for broadcasting several moments of the war which the WG wanted to hid.


You didn’t answer my question.



> And big mom absolutely shat all over a legit YC2 commander and destroyed luffy's haki field with literally just brute strength. Coming unscathed from fighting vista is in no way impressive when you take into account the hype y'all are trying to put on mihawk.


You don’t realize that no one is using *this *feat to claim that Mihawk is Yonkou level? All anyone has said is that it was impressive. I don’t think you’d be using this BM feat to argue why she could beat Kaidou, right?


> Akainu quite literally plowed through nearly every single WB commander at the same time, yet was scared of challenging shanks.


The strongest 2 commanders (Jozu was out of the fight) failed to put a scratch on him with their Haki. It doesn’t matter if there were 100 other commanders at that point. Shanks is comparable to him at full strength. He just got through a near death experience fighting WB. Tell me why *anyone *would willingly fight another Yonkou under those circumstances.



> Please just stop. Y'all mihawk fanboys are getting desperate at this point
> Heck several of you are still in denial and keep claiming mihawk fought younko shanks despite oda literally lolnoping that retarded data book entry.


1. The latest chapter emphasized that he was *recognized *as a Yonkou 6 years ago. That doesn’t mean that he wasn’t already on that level prior to officially being named one, but we’d need to see that.

2. Even taking away that point, the argument for Mihawk is still strong. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it is up to you.




> Go reread marineford. The moment sengoku announced luffy's lineage, just about every marine decided he had to die. Heck they kept going after him even when shanks showed up.
> Even without taking that fact into account, the war was arguably even more fierce after WB died. Even smoker pointed out that something felt off as nighas were just murdering each other and coby got overwhelmed by it all, not to mention black beard and his crew showed up and started wrecking shit.


Again, whether or not they wanted Luffy dead or not, the war was over. If anything he became a bonus round. Ace was dead. WB was dead. Marco was the strongest WBP left. PIS stupidity had guys like Buggy and Croc keeping Luffy away from Akainu. If any Yonkou and their crew would have shown up out of the blue, the at that point the WG would have had to consider stopping. Shanks didn’t show up midway while Ace And WB were alive and end the war. He came at the end with his full crew strength. This is literally the most overrated “feat” in the entire series.


> If the war was truly over, there would have been no need for coby's speech in the first place.


And didn’t Coby mention that the Marines has won and that the war was over in his speech?






> Clearly the OPverse definition of a swordsman is much more narrow that what you are trying to imply.
> WB used a sword and was WSM. Why wasn't he also awarded the WSS title since even mihawk thought WB was stronger.


I mean, clearly a Bisento isn’t a sword, but here you are.

If I had to guess, he probably wasn’t awarded the WSS title because...a bisento isn’t a sword...idk though.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Conxc said:


> You didn’t answer my question.


Yes i did.


Conxc said:


> You don’t realize that no one is using *this *feat to claim that Mihawk is Yonkou level? All anyone has said is that it was impressive. I don’t think you’d be using this BM feat to argue why she could beat Kaidou, right?


You need to work on your reading comp. What i said was, compared to the level at which you all seem to place mihawk, his feats at MF were not impressive. Its not an exceedingly difficult concept to grasp.


Conxc said:


> The strongest 2 commanders (Jozu was out of the fight) failed to put a scratch on him with their Haki. It doesn’t matter if there were 100 other commanders at that point.


It was implied that Akainu morphed his body similar to what Katakuri does. 



Conxc said:


> Shanks is comparable to him at full strength.


Not going to take the bait.



Conxc said:


> . He just got through a near death experience fighting WB. Tell me why *anyone *would willingly fight another Yonkou under those circumstances.


Near death experience? Akainu was incapacitated for a few minutes at most and was back to wrecking shit soon after. He had the OP equivalent of a flesh wound.
Also this is the same Akainu who even after being incapacitated by WB was still talking shit as he slid down the abyss. Yet just seeing shanks nearly gave him a heart attack.


Conxc said:


> 1. The latest chapter emphasized that he was *recognized *as a Yonkou 6 years ago. That doesn’t mean that he wasn’t already on that level prior to officially being named one, but we’d need to see that.


This is such a reach, its not even funny.


Conxc said:


> 2. Even taking away that point, the argument for Mihawk is still strong. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge it is up to you.


It really isn't though. If anything, it just suffered a mortal wound.



Conxc said:


> Again, whether or not they wanted Luffy dead or not, the war was over. If anything he became a bonus round. Ace was dead. WB was dead. Marco was the strongest WBP left.


Killing luffy was clearly more than a bonus given that both aoikiji and kizaru quite literally risked a war with the Red hair pirates in their attempt to kill him.
True, the marines had achieved their original objectives but as Smoker, tashigi and finally coby pointed out, the fighting instead seemed to have gotten more intense. And that not even mentioning teach and his crew stepping in.



Conxc said:


> If any Yonkou and their crew would have shown up out of the blue, the at that point the WG would have had to consider stopping.


Given that most younko can solo their entire crew, its more than likely the presence of a younko alone would have sufficed. Which is funny coz mihawk is hyped to be of younko class but was never shown anything close to that lvl of respect by either side.



Conxc said:


> Shanks didn’t show up midway while Ace And WB were alive and end the war.


Yeah. He was busy chasing off kaido. And still had time to drop in MF and set everyone straight.



Conxc said:


> He came at the end with his full crew strength. This is literally the most overrated “feat” in the entire series.


He stopped a war involving three world powers after just chasing off another WP. Its a far more respectable feat than mihawk has shown


Conxc said:


> And didn’t Coby mention that the Marines has won


Coby was trying to point out that there was no reason for the war TO CONTINUE. Yes, the marines had achieved their objectives but the fighting only intensified. Everyone got caught in a battle frenzy.



Conxc said:


> I mean, clearly a Bisento isn’t a sword, but here you are.


>Classified as a meitou (i.e. a named sword)
>Known as one of the supreme class meitou
>bisento were regarded as long swords in feudal japan.

Bruh, just give up.


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## Conxc (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> Yes i did.


You didn’t.

Who did Buggy fight for him to *not *have left the war unscathed?



> You need to work on your reading comp. What i said was, compared to the level at which you all seem to place mihawk, his feats at MF were not impressive. Its not an exceedingly difficult concept to grasp.


None of this should be hard to grasp, yet here you stand, as confused as ever.

My point is, no one is using this feat to claim he’s Yonkou level. However, fighting the guys he fought and not suffering a single wound (really from Vista) is impressive. Yonkou level impressive? No, but still an impressive feat.



> It was implied that Akainu morphed his body similar to what Katakuri does.


Bullshit. He was clearly caught off guard and the attacks clearly connected, as Akainu’s elemental neck was somewhat severed from the attacks.




> Not going to take the bait.


There is no bait. Though I assume you think Shanks is superior to Akainu as well?




> Near death experience? Akainu was incapacitated for a few minutes at most and was back to wrecking shit soon after. He had the OP equivalent of a flesh wound.
> Also this is the same Akainu who even after being incapacitated by WB was still talking shit as he slid down the abyss. Yet just seeing shanks nearly gave him a heart attack.


It was near death. Do you know how much damage you have to inflict to even leave a scratch on an Admiral? Akainu was lights out for a while. At the very least he was defeated by WB there. After that, anyone would be reluctant to fight a Yonkou, and definitely if a Yonkou pulls up on you unexpectedly anyone would probably be alarmed.



> This is such a reach, its not even funny.


Read what you quote....but also, let’s not be dumb. Obviously at some point Shanks had to have shown the ability to be considered a Yonkou, to them become a Yonkou. Use your head, kid.



> It really isn't though. If anything, it just suffered a mortal wound.


Nah. Whether you like it or not, his title at least puts him above Fujitora. Whether you like it or not, until further notice, Shanks is a swordsman. Unless you can show me the plethora of other fighting styles he used since his debut 20 years ago... oh, wait. Whether you like it or not, Mihawk is the WSS. That’s something that Oda has maintained through 20 years *to this day. *Only the severely delusional or reading impaired are *still *debating this after all this time.




> Killing luffy was clearly more than a bonus given that both aoikiji and kizaru quite literally risked a war with the Red hair pirates in their attempt to kill him.
> True, the marines had achieved their original objectives but as Smoker, tashigi and finally coby pointed out, the fighting instead seemed to have gotten more intense. And that not even mentioning teach and his crew stepping in.


No matter what way you slice it, the war was over. The WBP lost. Flat out lost, and the WG wouldn’t have wanted to wage war on another Yonkou right then and there. Could have been Kaidou or Big Mom. It doesn’t matter.




> Given that most younko can solo their entire crew, its more than likely the presence of a younko alone would have sufficed. Which is funny coz mihawk is hyped to be of younko class but was never shown anything close to that lvl of respect by either side.


And in your own post, you correctly minimize Shanks’ “feat” of “stopping the war.” Looks like you’re finally starting to get it.

Mihawk since his debut has never been against the WG until these recent chapters for them to show him that respect. As for other pirates, he hasn’t had any interactions with top tiers until MF. WB didn’t shit his pants for anyone, and Shanks didn’t come to MF to fight, unless he had to. If anything, Mihawk’s lack of respect for Shanks should tell you something.




> Yeah. He was busy chasing off kaido. And still had time to drop in MF and set everyone straight.


That’s one of the biggest lies Shanks fans tell. He chased off Kaidou? Lmfao.




> He stopped a war involving three world powers after just chasing off another WP. Its a far more respectable feat than mihawk has shown


We’ve been over this.



> Coby was trying to point out that there was no reason for the war TO CONTINUE. Yes, the marines had achieved their objectives but the fighting only intensified. Everyone got caught in a battle frenzy.


We’ve been over this.




> >Classified as a meitou (i.e. a named sword)
> >Known as one of the supreme class meitou
> >bisento were regarded as long swords in feudal japan.
> 
> Bruh, just give up.


Do your googles. A bisento has many different descriptions, but I’ll tell you this: based on what we’ve seen from WB, he probably used his bisento the *least *out of what he has in his arsenal. His use of his bisento has been supplementary. The same *could *be the case for Fujitora, but we’d need to see...however, Shanks, from what we’ve seen doesn’t have a DF and only uses a sword. He’s clearly a swordsman.

Also, this will be the last time I respond to you. You’ll never get it because you don’t want to.


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## Steven (Oct 1, 2019)

Rob the Zombie said:


> Agreed, but this makes the whole discussion unnecessary complex.
> 
> Is there a WSB; world’s strongest bisento fighter?
> One for every weapon type or why are swords singled out?


WB was the WSM

The highest titel you can get.He was>Mihawk


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## SomnusUltima (Oct 1, 2019)

Shonks yonko
mihowk not
shonks win


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Conxc said:


> You didn’t.
> 
> Who did Buggy fight for him to *not *have left the war unscathed?


How is this relevant? 



Conxc said:


> None of this should be hard to grasp, yet here you stand, as confused as ever.
> 
> My point is, no one is using this feat to claim he’s Yonkou level. However, fighting the guys he fought and not suffering a single wound (really from Vista) is impressive. Yonkou level impressive? No, but still an


You still don't get it. The fact that vista came off unscathed after fighting mihawk for several minutes is an awful feat for mihawk especially considering how younko are capable of fodderizing stronger characters. Heck even teach as a relative newbie emperor absolutely destroyed marco who >> vista.



Conxc said:


> Bullshit. He was clearly caught off guard and the attacks clearly connected, as Akainu’s elemental neck was somewhat severed from the attacks.



Same thing happened with katakuri though. Heck a punch from ichiji even seemed to severe him from the torso completely.
Not to mention jozu drew blood from aoikiji who was Akainu's equal.



Conxc said:


> It was near death. Do you know how much damage you have to inflict to even leave a scratch on an Admiral?


So because you damage an admiral, that equates to bringing him to near death?
Are you even listening to yourself?



Conxc said:


> Akainu was lights out for a while. At the very least he was defeated by WB there. After that, anyone would be reluctant to fight a Yonkou, and definitely if a Yonkou pulls up on you unexpectedly anyone would probably be alarmed.


Akainu was never lights out, only briefly incapacitated. Heck he even clung on as soon as his slid through the ground in order to avoid entering the sea. And never looked like slowing down from there.


Conxc said:


> Read what you quote....but also, let’s not be dumb. Obviously at some point Shanks had to have shown the ability to be considered a Yonkou, to them become a Yonkou. Use your head, kid.


Shanks only became a younko nearly a decade AFTER he lost his arm. To suggest that his strength wouldn't have grown tremendously in that time particularly given he only later gain recognition as an emperor, is an awful reach, even for you.



Conxc said:


> Nah. Whether you like it or not, his title at least puts him above Fujitora. Whether you like it or not, until further notice, Shanks is a swordsman. Unless you can show me the plethora of other fighting styles he used since his debut 20 years ago... oh, wait. Whether you like it or not, Mihawk is the WSS. That’s something that Oda has maintained through 20 years *to this day. *Only the severely delusional or reading impaired are *still *deb


Already throughly addressed this in an earlier post here.



Conxc said:


> No matter what way you slice it, the war was over. The WBP lost. Flat out lost, and the WG wouldn’t have wanted to wage war on another Yonkou right then and there. Could have been Kaidou or Big Mom. It doesn’t matter.


As i said, the marine forces were mostly intact. All their admirals still more than capable of fighting and most of their VAs were intact. Yet no one dared step up to shanks,not even mihawk.



Conxc said:


> Mihawk since his debut has never been against the WG until these recent chapters for them to show him that respect. As for other pirates, he hasn’t had any interactions with top tiers until MF.


Mihawk hasn't been shown that respect coz he would rather go after fodders like krieg than actual new world vets who can genuinely test his skills.



Conxc said:


> WB didn’t shit his pants for anyone, and Shanks didn’t come to MF to fight, unless he had to. If anything, Mihawk’s lack of respect for Shanks should tell you something.



>Mihawk runs like a scared cat
>Calls it "lack of respect"







Conxc said:


> That’s one of the biggest lies Shanks fans tell. He chased off Kaidou? Lmfao.


Seems like denial is the default setting for mihawk stans.



Conxc said:


> Do your googles. A bisento has many different descriptions


One of which includes a long sword



Conxc said:


> based on what we’ve seen from WB, he probably used his bisento the *least *out of what he has in his arsenal. His use of his bisento has been supplementary. *The same could be the case for Fujitora*


Wow. You are so close to finally getting it. Yet somehow mihawk is automatically above fujitora because the latter uses a sword.
Bruh, you can't even keep your points straight



Conxc said:


> Shanks, from what we’ve seen doesn’t have a DF and only uses a sword. He’s clearly a swordsman.


So close


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## Conxc (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> How is this relevant?


If you don’t k ow, I’m. It gonna bother explaining it. Go back and read what you quote for your answer.




> You still don't get it. The fact that vista came off unscathed after fighting mihawk for several minutes is an awful feat for mihawk especially considering how younko are capable of fodderizing stronger characters. Heck even teach as a relative newbie emperor absolutely destroyed marco who >> vista.


No. At best, this is a testament to Vista’s strength, not a blemish on Mihawk. He was casual throughout the entire war, including that little scuffle. I also don’t k ow where you get off claiming Marco is that much stronger than Vista.

Also, to help you a bit, you’re talking about an arc in which Kizaru oil that kill pre-ts Luffy. You’re talking about an arc in which no Admiral could defeat a YC until they were distracted. Mihawk’s performance is consistent with both Kizaru’s and Aokiji’s in that they were all stalled out by YC level characters.





> Same thing happened with katakuri though. Heck a punch from ichiji even seemed to severe him from the torso completely.
> Not to mention jozu drew blood from aoikiji who was Akainu's equal.


Katakuri was forming around Luffy’s attacks because of future sight. Akainu was caught off guard. Proof that he got hit, but was unaffected, is in the fact that he said that they were Haki users. Unless their attacks made contact, he would only know that Marco is one because he saw Marco kick Kizaru. It’s that simple. Don’t make your brain hurt.




> So because you damage an admiral, that equates to bringing him to near death?
> Are you even listening to yourself?
> 
> 
> Akainu was never lights out, only briefly incapacitated. Heck he even clung on as soon as his slid through the ground in order to avoid entering the sea. And never looked like slowing down from there.


I’d need to check, but I think you’re thinking of the anime scene. Akainu was out. Didn’t come back into the fight until after Teach finished off WB and absorbed his DF. That’s not a short amount of time for a guy that merely suffered a “flesh wound.”



> Shanks only became a younko nearly a decade AFTER he lost his arm. To suggest that his strength wouldn't have grown tremendously in that time particularly given he only later gain recognition as an emperor, is an awful reach, even for you.


It’s a possibility whether you like it or not. 




> Already throughly addressed this in an earlier post here.


Nah, but you keep neglecting to answer the important questions.




> ]As i said, the marine forces were mostly intact. All their admirals still more than capable of fighting and most of their VAs were intact. Yet no one dared step up to shanks,not even mihawk.


So do you think that if you replace Shanks in that same exact scenario with Kaidou (>Shanks) or BM, the Marines would still fight?




> Mihawk hasn't been shown that respect coz he would rather go after fodders like krieg than actual new world vets who can genuinely test his skills.


Oh, you mean like, at the start of the series? The same start of the series where a Seaking ate Shanks’ arm as a snack?





> >Mihawk runs like a scared cat
> >Calls it "lack of respect"


He didn’t fight Shanks because where’s the bragging rights in beating a kid with one arm?






> Seems like denial is the default setting for mihawk stans.


”People say in a one on one fight, always bet on Kaidou” but Shanks ran him off unscathed? That’s what you come up with? That’s pretty dumb even for you kiddo.




> One of which includes a long sword


And if you take a look at WBs bisento and the ones that are classified as long swords, what do you notice? WBs is clearly a polearm.




> Wow. You are so close to finally getting it. Yet somehow mihawk is automatically above fujitora because the latter uses a sword.
> Bruh, you can't even keep your points straight


The difference is WB has used his DF and own physical strength in any crucial point that we’ve seen him. When he attacked Akainu. When he sank MF. When he tried to break the wall the Marines put up. The only time he favored his bisento was when Teach nullified his GGnM punch and he had no choice. Fujitora is different. He’s primarily used his sword along with his DF in any panel that we’ve seen him fighting. 




> So close


Show me Shanks’ primary fighting style or concede.

Reactions: Like 1


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## g4snake108 (Oct 1, 2019)

Shanks is ahead by a mile at this point until oda shows more feats of mihawk.
Lets review the facts-
Kaidou>= Shanks by the yonkou titles each of them have(the strongest 4 pirates,period-and mihawk is now a pirate and is not a yonkou,at  least as far as our knowledge is,2 chapters in)

Kaidou utterly fodderizes and refuses to recognize a YC1 level fighter(same category as him) in luffy as anywhere near his level whereas Mihawk is "temporarily" held by Vista at the war when he has full intention of killing strawhat and he even recognizes Vista as a name every swordsman should have heard of. Kaidou and Big Mom, even after knowledge of katakuri's defeat to luffy, refuse to think of luffy as anything more than a pest, when all 3 are fighters. Luffy has had to have a shit ton of powerup in the last week to maybe stand a chance 1vs 1 against kaidou now.

Mihawk never fought Yonkou Shanks...8 years of prime shanks not getting stronger when Oda has specifically stated losing a hand did not make shanks weaker is a stretch. It is as true that mihawk over the years should have gotten strong too, but mihawk has never drawn against Yonkou shanks.

Mihawk is a shichibukai, and if he was anywhere close to Yonkou level, the marines are going to know about it and not let hundreds of soldiers go to their deaths facing off against mihawk. remember Garp stating that going against Rayleigh without preparation was pure stupidity? That guy is currently weaker than yonkousand is not touched by the military knowing full well what can happen whereas mihawk is already under assault- should tell you where the marines think mihawk stands. There is no way any marine ship is going near a lonely kaidou-ever.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Oct 1, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Shanks is ahead by a mile at this point until oda shows more feats of mihawk.
> Lets review the facts-
> Kaidou>= Shanks by the yonkou titles each of them have(the strongest 4 pirates,period-and mihawk is now a pirate and is not a yonkou,at  least as far as our knowledge is,2 chapters in)
> 
> ...



The Marines sent fodder to keep Shanks and Whitebeard from meeting. Their ships got destroyed and that was the end of that

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Conxc said:


> If you don’t k ow, I’m. It gonna bother explaining it. Go back and read what you quote for your answer.


So nothing relevant here. As expected. 
You pointed out that Mihawk survived MF unscathed. I pointed out buggy (as well as a host of other characters did same). 
Really that's EOD right there.



Conxc said:


> No. At best, this is a testament to Vista’s strength, not a blemish on Mihawk. He was casual throughout the entire war, including that little scuffle. I also don’t k ow where you get off claiming Marco is that much stronger than Vista.


It is a major blemish on mihawk. First you're trying to argue that vista was completely unable to hurt Akainu yet you somehow think vista hanging with mihawk doesn't make the WSS look bad? 
You are really bad at this. Can i get another mihawkstan here? 
I think this one is done.

Vista was also being casual btw. And as for marco, he was the only one whom the Gorosei deemed able to stop BB. Vista is pretty much a non factor when in the grand scheme of things.


Conxc said:


> Also, to help you a bit, you’re talking about an arc in which Kizaru oil that kill pre-ts Luffy. You’re talking about an arc in which no Admiral could defeat a YC until they were distracted. Mihawk’s performance is consistent with both Kizaru’s and Aokiji’s in that they were all stalled out by YC level characters.


Its also the same MF where younkos were shown to be a class above all their subordinates combined.
Things aren't looking good for our boi hawkeye




Conxc said:


> Katakuri was forming around Luffy’s attacks because of future sight. Akainu was caught off guard. Proof that he got hit, but was unaffected, is in the fact that he said that they were Haki users. Unless their attacks made contact, he would only know that Marco is one because he saw Marco kick Kizaru. It’s that simple. Don’t make your brain hurt.


I quite literally brought up an example of Katakuri pulling the same shit against ICHIJI. Not sure why you are bringing up luffy.
As for how Akainu could know they both had haki, I'm guessing its common sense a WB commander/new world vet would have haki. Or he could have seen a future where they fuck him up with their attack and reacted accordingly.



Conxc said:


> I’d need to check, but I think you’re thinking of the anime scene. Akainu was out. Didn’t come back into the fight until after Teach finished off WB and absorbed his DF. That’s not a short amount of time for a guy that merely suffered a “flesh wound.”


Akainu was incapacitated for a few minutes at most. Jinbei was trying to escape with luffy and never made it out of MF before Akainu was up and running like nothing happened.



Conxc said:


> It’s a possibility whether you like it or not.


It really isn't. Haki gets more powerful through battles. So unless shanks sat on his ass for nearly a decade and somehow just had the younko title handed to him on a silver platter, I'm gonna have to call BS.


Conxc said:


> Nah, but you keep neglecting to answer the important questions.


I already gave my detailed analysis on what i think of the WSS title and how it relates to Mihawk's rank. I am definitely not going to go over that again. Respond to it if you want and I'll be sure to give you a proper response.



Conxc said:


> So do you think that if you replace Shanks in that same exact scenario with Kaidou (>Shanks) or BM, the Marines would still fight?


Guess this goes to show that Mihawk probably isn't even younko lvl. 



Conxc said:


> Oh, you mean like, at the start of the series? The same start of the series where a Seaking ate Shanks’ arm as a snack?


Except its a pattern with Mihawk. Even in Marineford, apart from his initial attack to test WB, he kept going after fodders. 



Conxc said:


> He didn’t fight Shanks because where’s the bragging rights in beating a kid with one arm?


Where's the bragging rights in beating pretimeskip luffy or besting a YC3 tier opponent, or besting Daz bones etc.




Conxc said:


> People say in a one on one fight, always bet on Kaidou” but Shanks ran him off unscathed? That’s what you come up with? That’s pretty dumb even for you kiddo.


You really should blame Oda for this one. But it is a fact that Shanks stopped kaido from proceeding to MF.



Conxc said:


> And if you take a look at WBs bisento and the ones that are classified as long swords, what do you notice? WBs is clearly a polearm


Bisentos have pole arms. Also again WB's bisento is a meitou and part of the supreme grades.



Conxc said:


> The difference is WB has used his DF and own physical strength in any crucial point that we’ve seen him. When he attacked Akainu. When he sank MF. When he tried to break the wall the Marines put up. The only time he favored his bisento was when Teach nullified his GGnM punch and he had no choice. Fujitora is different. He’s primarily used his sword along with his DF in any panel that we’ve seen him fighting.


Two quick questions:

Based on what we've seen, would fujitora be nearly as powerful without his DF?
Would it make any difference if Fujitora decided to use, say, a staff instead of a sword?




Conxc said:


> Show me Shanks’ primary fighting style or concede.


Show me proof shanks exclusively relies on swordsmanship and I'll concede.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 1, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> The Marines sent fodder to keep Shanks and Whitebeard from meeting. Their ships got destroyed and that was the end of that


Stopping a meeting would only require damaging their ships. Even jack managed that much against an admiral.
Capturing mihawk would require actually beating him to submission.


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## Steven (Oct 1, 2019)

This thread...

All the time the same points...


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## Conxc (Oct 1, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> So nothing relevant here. As expected.
> You pointed out that Mihawk survived MF unscathed. I pointed out buggy (as well as a host of other characters did same).
> Really that's EOD right there.


You *really *don’t get it. Wow.




> It is a major blemish on mihawk. First you're trying to argue that vista was completely unable to hurt Akainu yet you somehow think vista hanging with mihawk doesn't make the WSS look bad?
> You are really bad at this. Can i get another mihawkstan here?
> I think this one is done.


How the fuck does landing a blow on Akainu but not hurting him translate to fighting on par with a casual Mihawk? You’re a smiley poster. You should honestly stick to that.



> Vista was also being casual btw. And as for marco, he was the only one whom the Gorosei deemed able to stop BB. Vista is pretty much a non factor when in the grand scheme of things.


The same Marco who, like Vista, failed to harm Akainu?



> Its also the same MF where younkos were shown to be a class above all their subordinates combined.
> Things aren't looking good for our boi hawkeye


What? The sad part is that you actually think you’re doing/saying something with the shit you post. You actually think you’ve got something here. I honestly feel for you.




> I quite literally brought up an example of Katakuri pulling the same shit against ICHIJI. Not sure why you are bringing up luffy.
> As for how Akainu could know they both had haki, I'm guessing its common sense a WB commander/new world vet would have haki. Or he could have seen a future where they fuck him up with their attack and reacted accordingly.


It doesn’t matter who it was up against. You’re comparing a Paramecia to a Logia and you’re referencing future sight when it clearly was not a thing during MF story wise. There’s something wrong up there if you really can’t tel what happened in that scene.




> Akainu was incapacitated for a few minutes at most. Jinbei was trying to escape with luffy and never made it out of MF before Akainu was up and running like nothing happened.


Ok. So he was lights out. Thanks.




> It really isn't. Haki gets more powerful through battles. So unless shanks sat on his ass for nearly a decade and somehow just had the younko title handed to him on a silver platter, I'm gonna have to call BS.


This doesn’t refute anything, and you’re thinking too hard on something that I have already stated is a possibility, not what happened.



> I already gave my detailed analysis on what i think of the WSS title and how it relates to Mihawk's rank. I am definitely not going to go over that again. Respond to it if you want and I'll be sure to give you a proper response.


I didn’t even bother reading it. WSS > every other swordsman until further notice. Period.




> Guess this goes to show that Mihawk probably isn't even younko lvl.


Dodge of question? Concession accepted.




> Except its a pattern with Mihawk. Even in Marineford, apart from his initial attack to test WB, he kept going after fodders.


Doesn't mean jack shit. None of the Shichibukai were going out of their way to help the WG win. Mihawk, Doffy, Hancock (she even attacked Marine forces) were just toying with the situation.




> Where's the bragging rights in beating pretimeskip luffy or besting a YC3 tier opponent, or besting Daz bones etc.


Only you brought any of those people up.





> You really should blame Oda for this one. But it is a fact that Shanks stopped kaido from proceeding to MF.


You can’t be this dense. You willingly accept and stretch this point to hell but can’t accept that the World’s Strongest Swordsman is the World’s Strongest Swordsman? 




> Bisentos have pole arms. Also again WB's bisento is a meitou and part of the supreme grades.


Bisentos are polearms. 




> Two quick questions:
> 
> Based on what we've seen, would fujitora be nearly as powerful without his DF?
> Would it make any difference if Fujitora decided to use, say, a staff instead of a sword?



1. If you took away his DF ability as he is right now, obviously not. Here’s an equally as dumb question though: would Zoro be anywhere near as strong as he is now if you took away his swords? Would Luffy be anywhere near as strong as he is now if you took away Gears? Your question is stupid because you’re telling me to take away an integral part of his arsenal. If a fighter has molded their fighting style a certain way, even changing the less dominant aspect of their style will mean they will be weaker.
2. Another stupid question. Refer to first answer.



[question]Show me proof shanks exclusively relies on swordsmanship and I'll concede.[/QUOTE]Doesn't work like that. The burden of proof is on you, as you’re the only one arguing the contrary to what we’ve seen. So show this alternate fighting style or concede that he’s a swordsman.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Oct 1, 2019)

Conxc said:


> Bullshit. He was clearly caught off guard and the attacks clearly connected, as Akainu’s elemental neck was somewhat severed from the attacks.





Conxc said:


> Katakuri was forming around Luffy’s attacks because of future sight. Akainu was caught off guard. Proof that he got hit, but was unaffected, is in the fact that he said that they were Haki users. Unless their attacks made contact, he would only know that Marco is one because he saw Marco kick Kizaru. It’s that simple. Don’t make your brain hurt.



Well the argument isn't bull shit, visually it's the same technique. Katakuri had mastered his fruit to the point that he could duplicate a logia's abilities. It's the same thing, shifting around the true body beneath the element so that no attack connects.

Haki allows one to bypass that by hitting the substantial body underneath. What is usually automatic in a logia body, Katakuri does as a manual technique with Future Sight.

The only other method is simply to tank the attack with Busoshoku Haki. Just looking at it though, they're the same.

Saying that Akainu tanked the attack instead of logia evading because he stated they were haki users while enduring the attack is a good argument though. It implies he was annoyed by their attacks connecting. On the other hand, he could've just noted they were haki users because they straight up attacked him and weren't incinerated. But it seems clear they caught him at least a little off guard...which is honestly a nice little blitz feat for them, surprising someone from the front.




Shanks4Life said:


> WB was the WSM
> 
> The highest titel you can get.He was>Mihawk



In fact Mihawk attacked Whitebeard in the first place because he wanted to see how his attacked measured up to the World's Strongest Man. An answer neither he or we got thanks to Jozu.



Kroczilla said:


> Shanks only became a younko nearly a decade AFTER he lost his arm.


Six years actually. He was a Yonko for only four years at the start of Luffy's journey.


Kroczilla said:


> As i said, the marine forces were mostly intact. All their admirals still more than capable of fighting and most of their VAs were intact. Yet no one dared step up to shanks,not even mihawk.


That's more because they're buds than anything else. I doubt Mihawk has ever been scared of Shanks. Not sure if he's actually scared of anyone.



> Mihawk hasn't been shown that respect coz he would rather go after fodders like krieg than actual new world vets who can genuinely test his skills.



Well that was doing his job though, he's a Shichibukai, crushing pirates *is* the gig. As for who he was going after in the war, I can't really say. Doflamingo was just having fun and was happy to face off with Crocodile, Hancock was clearly protecting Luffy, Moriah was getting the business from Jinbe and trying to rebuild his zombie collection, Kuma was getting worked over by Ivankov, and Mihawk seemed to be facing off against a bunch of jabronis who wanted revenge on him for bitch slapping them earlier, but was thrilled to actually have someone to fight (Vista) who could make him pay attention.


Conxc said:


> ”People say in a one on one fight, always bet on Kaidou” but Shanks ran him off unscathed? That’s what you come up with? That’s pretty dumb even for you kiddo.



Why not? It's ship to ship combat. Furthermore Kaido was attacking Whitebeard, and it was said that Shanks intercepted him. To me that means that at the very least Shanks drew Kaido's fire while Whitebeard and his fleet dived for Fishman Island, rather than letting him be attacked while he was vulnerable with his bubble up. After Whitebeard was gone Kaido probably just said, "fuck it, gimme a beer." and went home.


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## Conxc (Oct 1, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> Well the argument isn't bull shit, visually it's the same technique. Katakuri had mastered his fruit to the point that he could duplicate a logia's abilities. It's the same thing, shifting around the true body beneath the element so that no attack connects.
> 
> Haki allows one to bypass that by hitting the substantial body underneath. What is usually automatic in a logia body, Katakuri does as a manual technique with Future Sight.
> 
> ...


The argument in this case is bullshit. Katakuri wasn’t caught off-guard by Ichihji. Akainu was clearly caught off-guard. The context matters. We already know Kata can reform his body to avoid attacks despite being a Paramecia.

Right, meaning Katakuri expects those attacks. Akainu was caught off-guard.

The main difference in these scenarios is that Kata saw the attacks coming and manipulated his body to avoid them. Akainu was caught off-guard. His statement implies that the attacks connected, and the fact that he identified these attacks as Haki attacks means that the most likely answer here is that the attacks connected, but didn’t do much to him.



> Why not? It's ship to ship combat. Furthermore Kaido was attacking Whitebeard, and it was said that Shanks intercepted him. To me that means that at the very least Shanks drew Kaido's fire while Whitebeard and his fleet dived for Fishman Island, rather than letting him be attacked while he was vulnerable with his bubble up. After Whitebeard was gone Kaido probably just said, "fuck it, gimme a beer." and went home.


A possible scenario, but still speculation. We’ve seen what a serious fight between two top tiers looks like. Shanks nor anyone from his crew was hurt, and there was no report of Kaido being defeated. Also, none of WBs forces were harmed upon their arrival to MF. IIRC Kaido was looking to harm WB. The fact that no one was hurt in any way, shape or form denounces that a fight ensued at any point of that exchange. You can hardly say that Shanks “ran off” Kaidou, and again, Kaidou has been stated to be the best pound for pound.


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## g4snake108 (Oct 1, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> The Marines sent fodder to keep Shanks and Whitebeard from meeting. Their ships got destroyed and that was the end of that


Pretty sure that never happened or maybe I read the wrong translated version. The one I read stated clearly that Red hair "broke through" the military fleet and was about to make contact with WB- and that is completely expected. Marines are known to be keeping tabs on all the yonkous and trying to spy/intercept their doings. This just means Shanks broke through the front guard of the marines keeping each of the younkou under tabs/surveillance, not that anybody was "sent" to stop the meeting because nobody knew shanks intended to meet with WB.


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## Kroczilla (Oct 2, 2019)

Conxc said:


> How the fuck does landing a blow on Akainu but not hurting him translate to fighting on par with a casual Mihawk?


If you really don't get it by now then chances are you're never getting it.


Conxc said:


> The same Marco who, like Vista, failed to harm Akainu?


The same marco whose strength was acknowledged by the Gorosei and Shanks himself.



Conxc said:


> It doesn’t matter who it was up against. You’re comparing a Paramecia to a Logia and you’re referencing future sight when it clearly was not a thing during MF story wise


First off, Katakuri was using his DF like a logia. Second, future sight has been a thing since skypiea arc and was referenced even during MF (luffy used it unwittingly to avoid getting his arms chopped off by mihawk).

Seriously can i get a replacement mihawkstan? Anyone will do at this point.


Conxc said:


> Ok. So he was lights out. Thanks.


If he was lights out, he would be at the bottom of the sea. Heck even right after the attack, he was still quite conscious.



Conxc said:


> Doesn't mean jack shit. None of the Shichibukai were going out of their way to help the WG win. Mihawk, Doffy, Hancock (she even attacked Marine forces) were just toying with the situation.


How does this change the fact that mihawk keeps going after canon fodders who he should have no problem disposing. Seems out of character for someone who the data books claimed is looking for a strong opponent.



Conxc said:


> Only you brought any of those people up.


Only bringing up facts bruh. Don't get mad now.


Conxc said:


> You can’t be this dense. You willingly accept and stretch this point to hell but can’t accept that the World’s Strongest Swordsman is the World’s Strongest Swordsman?


I have said mihawk is the WSS. You just happen to have the wrong interpretation of what that title implies regarding his strength lvl. 



Conxc said:


> Bisentos are polearms.


They also happen to be long swords. 


Conxc said:


> 1. *If you took away his DF ability as he is right now, obviously not*. Here’s an equally as dumb question though: *would Zoro be anywhere near as strong as he is now if you took away his swords? Would Luffy be anywhere near as strong as he is now if you took away Gears?* Your question is stupid because *you’re telling me to take away an integral part of his arsenal. If a fighter has molded their fighting style a certain way, even changing the less dominant aspect of their style will mean they will be weaker*.



The real tragedy is that you are so close to actually getting it. But like i said, denial seems to be the default setting for mihawk stans.


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## Gledania (Oct 2, 2019)

g4snake108 said:


> Pretty sure that never happened or maybe I read the wrong translated version. The one I read stated clearly that Red hair "broke through" the military fleet and was about to make contact with WB- and that is completely expected. Marines are known to be keeping tabs on all the yonkous and trying to spy/intercept their doings. This just means Shanks broke through the front guard of the marines keeping each of the younkou under tabs/surveillance, not that anybody was "sent" to stop the meeting because nobody knew shanks intended to meet with WB.





Hmm  .... not gonna agree with any of you here but it wasn't stated *who *was sent for Mihawk. Just seen ships. We still need to wait for confirmation.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Oct 2, 2019)

Galyus said:


> Charisma? Or connections?


Charisma, The CD probably wanted to kill him for his connection to Roger or his own name of D.


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## Zuhaitz (Oct 2, 2019)

SupaHotFyre said:


> What does that mean? how is it unlikely when he hasn't shown even once any other form of fighting style?
> 
> There are more chances of him being one rather than not.



LOL Shanks has never fought you have 0 evidence of him being more of an swordsman than Big Mom.



Shanks4Life said:


> WB was not a swordfighter wtf
> 
> A Bisento is not a sword



WB's weapon is a supreme grade sword, written with the same kanji as swordsman's sword, hence he uses an sword by OPverse standard.


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## Flame (Oct 2, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> LOL Shanks has never fought you have 0 evidence of him being more of an swordsman than Big Mom.


lmfao

BM showed more than one fighting style. What has Shanks shown besides swinging his sword any time he had the chance? Literally in every panel he's in he's shown wielding his sword and his sword only. From his teen era with the Roger pirates to nowadays.

Also he had his daily duels with Mihawk back in the day. Google the definition of the word "duel" and the first thing you'll get is "a contest with *deadly weapons* arranged between two people in order to settle a point of honor."

Then yeah unless you have proof he's shown using his fists or whatever, there are more chances of him being a swordsman than not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Oct 2, 2019)

Kroczilla said:


> If you really don't get it by now then chances are you're never getting it.


Croc, you’re comparing a scenario in which Vista somewhat successfully landed a blow on Akainu via blitzing to a scenario in which he failed to do so against Mihawk. Now, you’re pribably gonna say “well Mihawk didn’t land a blow on Vista either.” That’s irrelevant. The scenarios that you’re trying to connect for the purpose that you want is working against you.




> The same marco whose strength was acknowledged by the Gorosei and Shanks himself.


And what? He still got washed by Teach. I’m not even sure of what your point is here anyway.





> First off, Katakuri was using his DF like a logia. Second, future sight has been a thing since skypiea arc and was referenced even during MF (luffy used it unwittingly to avoid getting his arms chopped off by mihawk).
> 
> 
> Seriously can i get a replacement mihawkstan? Anyone will do at this point.


None of that is relevant unless, in the scenario that you’re bringing up, Katakuri was blindsided by Ichiji it caught off guard. He was not. Akainu was caught off guard by Marco and Vista, then commented that they were Haki users. It’s quite clear that their attacks connected, but didn’t harm him, unlike Katakuri simply anticipating the attack and dodging it. It’s really not that hard to get, but I see you have to save face.




> If he was lights out, he would be at the bottom of the sea. Heck even right after the attack, he was still quite conscious.


The scene that you’re referencing is anime only. Go back and read the chapter. We don’t know what happened to Sakazuki down there. He could have landed on something. All we know is he fell through the crack, but survived. Him clinging to rocks down there was anime only.





> How does this change the fact that mihawk keeps going after canon fodders who he should have no problem disposing. Seems out of character for someone who the data books claimed is looking for a strong opponent.


I don’t know what to tell you, but him not seeking Yonkou for fights doesn’t mean he isn’t on that level. Even Yonkou avoid each other if they can. They have been in a gridlock for years before the timeskip.





> I have said mihawk is the WSS. You just happen to have the wrong interpretation of what that title implies regarding his strength lvl.


On the contrary, you’re overthinking the title. The title means exactly what it is. Mihawk is the World’s Strongest Swordsman meaning he’s stronger than the other swordsman in the verse until proven otherwise. You can still be a swordsman and have a devil fruit. Look at Shiryu.





> They also happen to be long swords.


From what I’m seeing, they have a style that has a longer blade, which I guess you could call a long sword. Then they have one style with a shorter blade like WB’s that’s considered a polearm.





> The real tragedy is that you are so close to actually getting it. But like i said, denial seems to be the default setting for mihawk stans.


I’m convinced that you’re just a troll and for now on I’ll treat you as such. After this post I’m gonna pretend that we simply agreed to disagree because you’ll never admit here you’re wrong and you’ve wasted enough of my time dodging questions, posting smileys and thinking you’re clever.


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## Conxc (Oct 2, 2019)

For anyone still confused, go to the wiki for murakumogiri (Whitebeard’s weapon) and read up on it. In the trivia, it explicitly states that this is the only Meito that *is not a sword.* If you look at the weapon classification it’s classified as a Naginata. Then after you’re done with that, go to the Meito wiki page and read how it says Meito also translates to renowned *blade*, meaning WBs weapon can still be a Meito if the *blade *was crafted in the same manner while not being a sword. Shouldn’t even come to this, I mean does it look like a fucking sword. Holy shit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Zuhaitz (Oct 2, 2019)

SupaHotFyre said:


> lmfao
> 
> BM showed more than one fighting style. What has Shanks shown besides swinging his sword



When has he swing his sword? Unless you have any proof of him being more of an swordsman than WB or Big Mom the burden of the proof It's up to you.

And please don't be so pathetic as to use the english definition of something a japanese has written in japanese with Its japanese meaning on mind.



Conxc said:


> For anyone still confused, go to the wiki for murakumogiri (Whitebeard’s weapon) and read up on it. In the trivia, it explicitly states that this is the only Meito that *is not a sword.* If you look at the weapon classification it’s classified as a Naginata. Then after you’re done with that, go to the Meito wiki page and read how it says Meito also translates to renowned *blade*, meaning WBs weapon can still be a Meito if the *blade *was crafted in the same manner while not being a sword. Shouldn’t even come to this, I mean does it look like a fucking sword. Holy shit.



LOL So your only proof It's the wiki that you yourself or any other random dude has edited 

The manga, not you shit source, has stated that WB's weapon is a supreme grade sword.


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## Conxc (Oct 2, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> LOL So your only proof It's the wiki that you yourself or any other random dude has edited
> 
> The manga, not you shit source, has stated that WB's weapon is a supreme grade sword.


Right, I took the time out of my day to learn how to edit a wiki and edit said wiki to prove a point to people over the internet. 

1. You give me way too much credit.

2. You’re “special”. Almost as “special” as Kroc.


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## Amatérasu’s Son (Oct 2, 2019)

Conxc said:


> The argument in this case is bullshit. Katakuri wasn’t caught off-guard by Ichihji. Akainu was clearly caught off-guard. The context matters. We already know Kata can reform his body to avoid attacks despite being a Paramecia.
> Right, meaning Katakuri expects those attacks. Akainu was caught off-guard.


The question is, is that material?

Katakuri needs future sight to effectively use an ability that is native to logia. For a logia they don't need future sight to do the same thing.



> The main difference in these scenarios is that Kata saw the attacks coming and manipulated his body to avoid them. Akainu was caught off-guard. His statement implies that the attacks connected, and the fact that he identified these attacks as Haki attacks means that the most likely answer here is that the attacks connected, but didn’t do much to him.


Like I said, he either logia evaded or tanked with Busoshoku.



> A possible scenario, but still speculation. We’ve seen what a serious fight between two top tiers looks like. Shanks nor anyone from his crew was hurt, and there was no report of Kaido being defeated. Also, none of WBs forces were harmed upon their arrival to MF. IIRC Kaido was looking to harm WB. The fact that no one was hurt in any way, shape or form denounces that a fight ensued at any point of that exchange. You can hardly say that Shanks “ran off” Kaidou, and again, Kaidou has been stated to be the best pound for pound.



I think it's erroneous to assume any kind of normal fight occurred, just like it's silly when people say King beat Big Mom when all he did was tip her ship over. I don't even know how people actually assumed a fight happened, when it was most likely a sea battle.


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## Conxc (Oct 2, 2019)

Amatérasu’s Son said:


> The question is, is that material?
> 
> Katakuri needs future sight to effectively use an ability that is native to logia. For a logia they don't need future sight to do the same thing.
> 
> ...


Katakuri uses this ability as a means to *dodging *an attack. A Logia that isn’t anticipating an attack Imbued with Haki will simply let their elemental body be destroyed, or if you’re Kizaru, let the attack pass right through you. A logia being caught off guard by Haki attacks will be hurt, or , like Akainu, will notice that the attacks had Haki. The fact is we’re only having this discussion because this is Akainu we’re talking about. If this were Croc, or Caribou, guys that would have been fucked by that attack, the answer would be obvious. The most likely answer is that his CoA is that high compared to Marco and Vista, and that checks out when compared to today’s top tier Yonkou characters. 





> I think it's erroneous to assume any kind of normal fight occurred, just like it's silly when people say King beat Big Mom when all he did was tip her ship over. I don't even know how people actually assumed a fight happened, when it was most likely a sea battle.


I agree.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 2, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> LOL Shanks has never fought you have 0 evidence of him being more of an swordsman than Big Mom.
> 
> 
> 
> WB's weapon is a supreme grade sword, written with the same kanji as swordsman's sword, hence he uses an sword by OPverse standard.



Shanks is the rival of mihawk(confirmed multiple times). He is called a sword master in the Databook

And he comes from a ship which had Roger(a swordsmen), rayleigh and fucking oden on it. Shanks also called Rayleigh master once in a flashback implying Rayleigh taught him. 

So regardless of what other skills you think Shanks has he is without a doubt a very high level Swordsmen.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Conxc (Oct 2, 2019)

>Dueled Mihawk with sword
>Was *rival *to the WSS
>Confronts Yonkou with sword
>Confronts Admiral with sword
>Only known weapon is sword
>Only known fighting style is swordsmanship

OL: Nah, this guy can’t be a swordsman. You just. Can’t. Make. This. Shit. Up.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Oct 2, 2019)

Conxc said:


> >Dueled Mihawk with sword
> >Was *rival *to the WSS
> >Confronts Yonkou with sword
> >Confronts Admiral with sword
> ...



Even has swords on his Jolly Roger like Zoro. 
Has a named sword like Zoro
Oda even anthropomorphized the sword in the volume 94 SBS, like he did with Zoro's swords

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## Furinji Saiga (Oct 3, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Even has swords on his Jolly Roger like Zoro.
> Has a named sword like Zoro
> *Oda even anthropomorphized the sword in the volume 94 SBS,* like he did with Zoro's swords



Wait whats this ???

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Oct 3, 2019)

Conxc said:


> >Dueled Mihawk with sword
> >Was *rival *to the WSS
> >Confronts Yonkou with sword
> >Confronts Admiral with sword
> ...


Shanksfans are still salty


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## trance (Oct 3, 2019)

SomnusUltima said:


> Shonks yonko
> mihowk not
> shonks win



shonks is a good dude

i like shonks



Shanks4Life said:


> Shanksfans are still salty



>un is Shanks4Life




*Spoiler*: __ 



i know its u btw acno 

just gotta tease the namefuck rq


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## Conxc (Oct 3, 2019)

Shonks in probably stronger than Mihawk. He’s not a swordsman, but Shanks is he is weaker.


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## Fujitora (Oct 3, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> >Ignores the fact that Mihawk says he never goes all out to hunt a rabbit
> >How often in this series do people start a fight with their most powerful move? Luffy used G3 against Kaido before he went into G4 and Kaido proved to be >> Luffy
> 
> How is Mihawk clashing with Vista an L? He didn't take damage from anyone in MF and nobody started to doubt Mihawk's title in the series after MF. Only the fans doubt it for some reason.


I didn’t know WSM Whitebeard whom mihawk wanted to see how far they were apart strenght wise was a rabbit.


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## Conxc (Oct 3, 2019)

OniKaido said:


> I didn’t know WSM Whitebeard whom mihawk wanted to see how far they were apart strenght wise was a rabbit.


WB died to bullets, something even EB Luffy is unaffected by.

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## Zuhaitz (Oct 3, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Shanks is the rival of mihawk(confirmed multiple times). He is called a sword master in the Databook
> 
> And he comes from a ship which had Roger(a swordsmen), rayleigh and fucking oden on it. Shanks also called Rayleigh master once in a flashback implying Rayleigh taught him.
> 
> So regardless of what other skills you think Shanks has he is without a doubt a very high level Swordsmen.



Roger isn't an swordsman, at least not more than WB or Shanks.

The databook says that Shanks was a Yonkou when he fought Mihawk, but he didn't, Mihawk has never fought a Yonkou.



Conxc said:


> >Dueled Mihawk with sword



Show me the duel.


Conxc said:


> >Was *rival *to the WSS



And Moria was Kaidou's, I guess that Moria isn't human as It seems that you have to be exactly like your rival 


Conxc said:


> >Confronts Yonkou with sword



Like WB and Big mom does.


Conxc said:


> >Confronts Admiral with sword



Like WB


Conxc said:


> >Only known weapon is sword



Like WB


Conxc said:


> >Only known fighting style is swordsmanship



Show me that fighting style.



Conxc said:


> OL: Nah, this guy can’t be a swordsman. You just. Can’t. Make. This. Shit. Up.



Indeed you are making shit up.

Even Oda in a SBS admitted that he still doesn't know how Shanks will fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Oct 3, 2019)

shonks >>> mihowk >>> shanks ~ mihawk


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## Conxc (Oct 3, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> Show me the duel.


The moment you show me Shanks using any means of combat besides swordsmanship.




> And Moria was Kaidou's, I guess that Moria isn't human as It seems that you have to be exactly like your rival


Let’s see. Mihawk is obviously a swordsman (as is Shanks) and Shanks only uses a sword...hmm...




> Like WB and Big mom does.


The only time that WB favored his *bisento is when he was first introduced. A time where his DF powers were not meant to be revealed. During MF after his powers were revealed, he almost always favored using Quake punches.




> Like WB
> 
> 
> Like WB


WB’s weapon isn’t a sword.




> Show me that fighting style.


Just look for literally any panel of Shanks doing anything combat related. What’s the common factor? Again, the burden of proof here is on you, as you’re the one claiming that there’s some alternate fighting style going against everything that we’ve seen.





> Indeed you are making shit up.
> 
> Even Oda in a SBS admitted that he still doesn't know how Shanks will fight.


Which SBS?

@Rakuyo You could make an argument for Mihowk >= Shonks tbh.


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## Flame (Oct 4, 2019)

Why the fuck would Mihawk make someone who's not even a swordsman a rival, when it's known he's looking for the strongest of them?

Reactions: Like 1


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## trance (Oct 4, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> what was it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 4, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> Roger isn't an swordsman, at least not more than WB or Shanks.
> 
> The databook says that Shanks was a Yonkou when he fought Mihawk, but he didn't, Mihawk has never fought a Yonkou.
> 
> ...



Whitebeards not a Swordsmen. Roger and Shanks are though.

What does Shanks not fighting Mihawk as a yonkou have to do with Shanks being a Swordsmen or not


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## Tornado (Oct 5, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Mihawks title doesn't cover Shanks because he is more then a Swordsmen(which there is currently zero evidence for).


Here is some indirect evidence for you.

List of important One Piece characters who use swords/swordsmanship primarily.
1. Mihawk
2. Zoro
3. Rayleigh
4. Kaku
5. Daz Bones
6. Vista
TBD

List of important One Piece characters who are sword users but also have other skills/abilities.
1. Roger
2. Law
3. Fujitora
4. Kizaru
5. Shiki
6. Kuzan
8. Brook
9. Whitebeard (his bisento is apparently a "meito" grade sword)
TBD

Now we know that Shanks is a sword user, therefore belongs to one of the lists. Goes without saying that characters in the second list are allowed to be stronger than Mihawk. Note that the second list has more characters, thus, Shanks has > 50% chance of being in the second list............ QED.

Caveat: the lists aren't complete, but it was a lot easier to fill the second list than the first. I have no doubt that if someone took the effort to complete the lists, the second would end up bigger than the first.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Here is some indirect evidence for you.
> 
> List of important One Piece characters who use swords/swordsmanship primarily.
> 1. Mihawk
> ...



Yea that's not evidence my guy.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Here is some indirect evidence for you.
> 
> List of important One Piece characters who use swords/swordsmanship primarily.
> 1. Mihawk
> ...



What list did Cabaji belong in?

And why is Kaku in the first list? He also used martial arts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Here is some indirect evidence for you.
> 
> List of important One Piece characters who use swords/swordsmanship primarily.
> 1. Mihawk
> ...


 Oda has called law and Fujitora swordsmen. I still hate myself that I didn’t save the law source but Fujitora is shown every volume


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## Tornado (Oct 5, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea that's not evidence my guy.


It is, my friend. Uses a sword =/= can only use a sword. Less than 50% of named characters who use swords are "pure swordsmen", and thats all the evidence I need.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> It is, my friend. Uses a sword =/= can only use a sword. Less than 50% of named characters who use swords are "pure swordsmen", and thats all the evidence I need.



Still not evidence. 

Zoro and Mihawk could be the only pure swordsmen in the series that we know of. 

Doesn't mean Shanks isn't one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Oct 5, 2019)

Just because all swordusers are classed as swordsmen, doesn’t mean Shanks is.


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## Tornado (Oct 5, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Still not evidence.
> 
> Zoro and Mihawk could be the only pure swordsmen in the series that we know of.
> 
> Doesn't mean Shanks isn't one.


Say character "X" is a sword user (and we don't know anything else about X). And the majority of sword users in the series aren't pure swordsmen. That means "X" is is probably not a "pure swordsman", no ?

See where i'm going with this ?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Say character "X" is a sword user (and we don't know anything else about X). And the majority of sword users in the series aren't pure swordsmen. That means "X" is is probably not a "pure swordsman", no ?
> 
> See where i'm going with this ?



I see where you going with it and like I said twice already it's not evidence.

Oda doesnt keep a mental log of which characters our which fighting style. Oda isn't going to be like oh 70 percent of swordusers have devil fruits I should give Shanks one to increase it to 75 percent.

Shit doesnt work like that. Oda will make Shanks a pure Swordsmen or not one because he wants to not because X amount of characters are Swordsmen.


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## Tornado (Oct 5, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I see where you going with it and like I said twice already it's not evidence.
> 
> Oda doesnt keep a mental log of which characters our which fighting style. Oda isn't going to be like oh 70 percent of swordusers have devil fruits I should give Shanks one to increase it to 75 percent.
> 
> Shit doesnt work like that. Oda will make Shanks a pure Swordsmen or not one because he wants to not because X amount of characters are Swordsmen.


But we are not Oda. Coming up with these lists and analysing the likelihood is the best we can do with the information available to us.

You're going to be disappointed when Oda reveals Shanks fighting style within the next 3-5 years. Come on, you really think he is  going to be another Mihawk with one arm ??


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 5, 2019)

Tornado said:


> But we are not Oda. Coming up with these lists and analysing the likelihood is the best we can do with the information available to us.
> 
> You're going to be disappointed when Oda reveals Shanks fighting style within the next 3-5 years. Come on, you really think he is  going to be another Mihawk with one arm ??



There is nothing to analyze. 

Shanks has nothing pointing to him being anything more then a Swordsmen. If oda starts dropping some hints. Then we can start analyzing shit. 

But think what you want man. Not like anything we say changes anything oda does with the manga


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## Sherlōck (Oct 6, 2019)

Shanks hype, portrayal and story relevance is above Mihawk. He is one of the Yonko & also the previous holder of Rogers SH.  

So while Mihawk has the title, that's all he has.

So, always going with Shanks in this match-up .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Oct 6, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Oda has called law and Fujitora swordsmen. I still hate myself that I didn’t save the law source but Fujitora is shown every volume


Usopp Gallery volume 70, bottom left image says "The Four Swordsman".

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zuhaitz (Oct 6, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yea that's not evidence my guy.


He doesn't need to prove that Shanks isn't an swordsman, you have to prove that he is, and you haven't.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 6, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> He doesn't need to prove that Shanks isn't an swordsman, you have to prove that he is, and you haven't.





*swordsman*

swords·man | \ ˈsȯrdz-mən  \
*Definition of swordsman*


1: one skilled in especially : a saber fencer
2archaic : a soldier armed with a 

Databook says Shanks is a sword master. 

Good luck proving that Shanks isn't skilled with a sword

Reactions: Like 3


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## Zuhaitz (Oct 6, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *swordsman*
> 
> swords·man | \ ˈsȯrdz-mən  \
> *Definition of swordsman*
> ...



Then WB is an swordsman 

Also the Databook is not a reliable source.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 6, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> Then WB is an swordsman
> 
> Also the Databook is not a reliable source.



Whitebeard is probably a Swordsmen yes given he is a pirate with decades of experience. Him not being skilled with a sword is very unlikely. I dont have strong evidence to prove that of course just speculation. 

Databook is more reliable then you or me. That's all that matters. Unless you got information from the manga that contradicts the Databook then tough luck


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## Dunno (Oct 6, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Say character "X" is a sword user (and we don't know anything else about X). And the majority of sword users in the series aren't pure swordsmen. That means "X" is is probably not a "pure swordsman", no ?
> 
> See where i'm going with this ?


Say character "X" is a sword user (and we know that character X used to duel a swordsman, has only every used his sword against top tiers, has swords in his Jolly Roger, has a named blade, and has been praised for his swordsmanship and called a rival to the strongest swordsman in the world in databooks). And the majority of sword users in the series aren't pure swordsmen. That means "X" is is probably  a "pure swordsman", no?

Reactions: Like 1


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## CaptainCommanderRenji (Oct 6, 2019)

Do you guys think Fujitora would get the title if he was clearly inferior to Mihawk in a sword fight, but then crushed him with his gravity abilities? I don't think he would. Technically he would be the strongest swordsman, but not because of his sword skills but because of his other abilities. 
This is the reason why most people, me included believe Yonko Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. We believe he has unseen abilities, maybe Devil Fruit or maybe something else. Something that has nothing to do with swordsmanship.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 6, 2019)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> Do you guys think Fujitora would get the title if he was clearly inferior to Mihawk in a sword fight, but then crushed him with his gravity abilities? I don't think he would. Technically he would be the strongest swordsman, but not because of his sword skills but because of his other abilities.
> This is the reason why most people, me included believe Yonko Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. We believe he has unseen abilities, maybe Devil Fruit or maybe something else. Something that has nothing to do with swordsmanship.



That's all fine in theory but that's just it a theory. 

He hasent shown a devil fruit or anything else. So speculating that he does is as pointless as me saying Mihawk has the Dracule Mythic Zoan fruit.


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## Sablés (Oct 6, 2019)

CaptainCommanderRenji said:


> Do you guys think Fujitora would get the title if he was clearly inferior to Mihawk in a sword fight, but then crushed him with his gravity abilities? I don't think he would. Technically he would be the strongest swordsman, but not because of his sword skills but because of his other abilities.
> This is the reason why most people, me included believe Yonko Shanks is stronger than Mihawk. We believe he has unseen abilities, maybe Devil Fruit or maybe something else. Something that has nothing to do with swordsmanship.


No beef either way, but Fujitora sucks for an analogy. A swordsman is just that, someone who fights dominantly with a sword. It doesn't matter how, but at the end of the day, the sword must be doing most of the work. Whitebeard uses a bisento as a conduit for his quakes. Fujitora is someone who uses his swordsmanship for his DF. That's why neither of them are swordsman. But those like Cabaji or whatever that use weird tricks are just creating a style centered on enhancing their blade.

Shanks uses a sword. Shanks is (presumably) a haki master. That's enhancing his swordsmanship, not the other way around.


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## Lee-Sensei (Oct 6, 2019)

It’s a toss up, but if I had to chose one... I’d give it to Mihawk with extreme diff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Vivo Diez (Oct 10, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Shanks is probably stronger or they are equal. Shanks has just had much better portrayal. I can never imagine Vista being able to stall Shanks.


To be fair, did Mihawk really have any motivation to off Vista? He was contractually obligated to attend a war he had no personal involvement in, but he didn't have an obligation to actually defeat or kill anyone. Why not just fight Vista and chill out?

I still think Shanks is stronger, but I also think Mihawk is significantly above the likes of yonko commanders or first mates. There's probably a solid reason why only him and WB have supreme grade swords so far, not even anyone in Wano has been shown to have one.


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## Bash24 (Oct 11, 2019)

I want to say Mihawk but i feel it's Shanks by a hair. Oda even made him 199cm and Mihawk 198 lol...


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## Red Admiral (Oct 11, 2019)

tbh ... didn't expect this poll form Naruto Forums ... 
but Shanks win every big (+100 vote) in one piece fandom simply cause fandom have more faith in him
an unstoppable force , capable of doing what ever he want and no power in verse wish to fight him back

Shanks > Mihawk
Yonko > Admiral
Zoro > Sanji

are most debatable in one piece fandom but all of them would (did) end up true 
*the capability of deny don't make the other side right 


any way ... 957 hit the Mihawk fandom hard 

by showing us a swordsman can be strongest and not having WSS title
by telling us Prime Shanks never fought Mihawk

*
again Mihawk fandom rather deny by saying things like
- Roger was WSS
- the WSS didn't exist before this era
- a 27 years Old Shanks is Prime Shanks and not a 39 yo Yonko Shanks
so the wall of deny is still big ... but .... *the capability of deny don't make the other side right 



do Mihawk still have a claim to be above Shanks ? yes cause of his title
is Mihawk title is enough to overshadow all Shanks achievement and hype ? no*


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## Tornado (Oct 12, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Say character "X" is a sword user (and we know that character X used to duel a swordsman, has only every used his sword against top tiers, has swords in his Jolly Roger, has a named blade, and has been praised for his swordsmanship and called a rival to the strongest swordsman in the world in databooks). And the majority of sword users in the series aren't pure swordsmen. That means "X" is is probably  a "pure swordsman", no?


Among these, only the Mihawk rivalry suggests he is a pure swordsman, however we will have to throw that out because Things Changed. In other words, losing the sword arm.

The fact that Mihawk refuses to fight him now doesn't help your argument at all.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 12, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Among these, only the Mihawk rivalry suggests he is a pure swordsman, however we will have to throw that out because Things Changed. In other words, losing the sword arm.
> 
> The fact that Mihawk refuses to fight him now doesn't help your argument at all.



Mihawk don't fight Shanks simply cause he can't win in this fight

if he lose .. it's a shame
if he win ... he would never know if he could do the same if Shanks had his 2 arm
he want a fair fight like the old time ... he can't find satisfaction so he refuse to fight Shanks 
while Shanks simply don't care .... 


if Shanks would consider himself weaker he would eat a DF to not only fill the gap but also make himself stronger than ever 

but the fact he show no interest in eating a DF (unlike every admiral and Yonko) prove Shanks is more than confidante with his power

and his rivals are not DF users but one of the kind monsters with super human powers

to feel confidante facing and rivaling this monsters while losing an arm and yet not eating a DF means ... Shanks still have his tramp card if fight left and he don't need more power than that



p.s

Shanks not eating a DF is stupid anyway ... Oda need to have a real answer for why not


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## Flame (Oct 12, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> if Shanks would consider himself weaker he would eat a DF to not only fill the gap but also make himself stronger than ever
> 
> but the fact he show no interest in eating a DF (unlike every admiral and Yonko) prove Shanks is more than confidante with his power
> 
> ...


You're using a lot of headcanon my dude

You literally have no idea why he never ate a DF. There could be tons of possibilities. I could argue he trusts his crew's strength more than his alone. Maybe he feels like the drawbacks are too great. You can't use this kind of logic to support your argument.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Oct 12, 2019)

Tornado said:


> Among these, only the Mihawk rivalry suggests he is a pure swordsman, however we will have to throw that out because Things Changed. In other words, losing the sword arm.
> 
> The fact that Mihawk refuses to fight him now doesn't help your argument at all.


I don't care at all about whether or not Shanks is a "pure" swordsman. Mihawk isn't the world's strongest pure swordsman, he's the world's strongest swordsman. All of these facts imply that Shanks is a swordsman, which is what I care about.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tornado (Oct 12, 2019)

Dunno said:


> I don't care at all about whether or not Shanks is a "pure" swordsman. Mihawk isn't the world's strongest pure swordsman, he's the world's strongest swordsman. All of these facts imply that Shanks is a swordsman, which is what I care about.


But Whitebeard had a supreme grade sword and was stronger than Mihawk. So Mihawk's title must only apply to pure swordsmen.



			
				SBS 93 said:
			
		

> *D: Please tell me the name of 's huge "sword". Is that a Great sword?*
> O: Whitebeard's Naginata is called " (Cloud Cutter)", it's a .



Oda surprised me too, tbh. Never thought of WB as a swordsman. But since his weapon is a "sword".....


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## Red Admiral (Oct 12, 2019)

SupaHotFyre said:


> You're using a lot of headcanon my dude
> 
> You literally have no idea why he never ate a DF. There could be tons of possibilities. I could argue he trusts his crew's strength more than his alone. Maybe he feels like the drawbacks are too great. You can't use this kind of logic to support your argument.



Shanks is a man who want to protract  the people he love

just like Roger
just like Luffy

having a strong crew for this type of people don't mean you should hold back

Roger crew was most likely stronger than Shanks's crew and yet in time of danger Roger would stand alone and protract his crew like a one man army ... as Garp said

and Shanks is the one who look up to Roger


why Shanks didn't eat a DF when as a Yonko he FOR SURE can use the power
and NO ONE hate extra power when they are a Yonko

needs to be answered

and in any case ...

if Shanks didn't eat a DF ... it means he is confidant with his power
if Shanks did eat a fruit ... knowing he most likely is a master of all 3 Haki ... then simply Shanks > Roger


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## Dunno (Oct 12, 2019)

Tornado said:


> But Whitebeard had a supreme grade sword and was stronger than Mihawk. So Mihawk's title must only apply to pure swordsmen.
> 
> 
> 
> Oda surprised me too, tbh. Never thought of WB as a swordsman. But since his weapon is a "sword".....


Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman. Owning a sword doesn't make you a swordsman, and WB didn't even own a sword. You do realise that the one calling it a "sword" was a fan, right? Oda called it a Naginata.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Oct 12, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Owning a sword doesn't make you a swordsman.



no one is less of a swordsman than Fujitora and yet he is a swordsman for having a sword


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## Dunno (Oct 12, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> no one is less of a swordsman than Fujitora and yet he is a swordsman for having a sword


What?


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

so the argument that mihawk is world's strongest swords man and because Shanks is a swords man then mihawk > Shanks is still being used in late 2019?


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## Steven (Oct 12, 2019)

WSS>Shanks,until proven otherwise

Mihawk has better feats as well

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

Mihawk WSS >= Shanks W2ndSS

now you can go play in the sandbox again


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## Xebec (Oct 12, 2019)

Mihawk never fought prime Shanks, never fought Yonko level Shanks

So eat shit @TheWiggian


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk never fought prime Shanks, never fought Yonko level Shanks
> 
> So eat shit @TheWiggian



Iam still waiting for the day when a Shanks fan proves Shanks is not a swordsman. You seem to be someone who can't do it so take a seat with the others.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 12, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk never fought prime Shanks, never fought Yonko level Shanks
> 
> So eat shit @TheWiggian



did shanks ever fight prime Mihawk


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Iam still waiting for the day when a Shanks fan proves Shanks is not a swordsman. You seem to be someone who can't do it so take a seat with the others.



irrelevant

it's an unclear title

being WSS means having the best skills using a sword, doesn't necessarily mean the strongest overall


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## Steven (Oct 12, 2019)

Malos said:


> Mihawk never fought prime Shanks, never fought Yonko level Shanks
> 
> So eat shit @TheWiggian


What are you talking?

Vivecard told us that Mihawk fought Yonkou Shanks


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

time will tell but i definitely lean towards shanks for now


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> irrelevant
> 
> it's an unclear title
> 
> being WSS means having the best skills using a sword, doesn't necessarily mean the strongest overall



not unclear

world means the planet

Strongest means number 1 

swordsmen means dude that swings a sword.

again its WSS not Worlds Best Swordsmen or Greatest Swordsmen


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> not unclear
> 
> world means the planet
> 
> ...



so number 1 in swinging a sword?


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> irrelevant
> 
> it's an unclear title
> 
> being WSS means having the best skills using a sword, doesn't necessarily mean the strongest overall



It seems pretty clear in the manga, people don't want to accept is the only point which apparently makes it unclear.

I'll continue to ride on the WSS lasagna until one of the *"not strongest overall debaters" *actually brings up anything worth discussing other than *"title only including sword skill"

*


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> It seems pretty clear in the manga, people don't want to accept is the only point which apparently makes it unclear.
> 
> I'll continue to ride on the WSS lasagna until one of the *"not strongest overall debaters" *actually brings up anything worth discussing other than *"title only including sword skill"
> 
> *




well enjoy while you can

it will be funny when people continue riding it when shanks shows his feats and argue that they should scale to mihawk because he is WSS

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> well enjoy while you can
> 
> it will be funny when people continue riding it when shanks shows his feats and argue that they should scale to mihawk because he is WSS



you still don't understand how a rivalry works in a manga? after sll the decades of reading them?


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> you still don't understand how a rivalry works in a manga? after sll the decades of reading them?



really?

explain how it works then

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> so number 1 in swinging a sword?



Indeed. Swinging a sword takes more then just Skill though.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> really?
> 
> explain how it works then





they scale to each other, why can children comprehend that and some adults cannot?


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> they scale to each other, why can children comprehend that and some adults cannot?



lol what are you talking about, no they don't

one is always ahead and the other is always desperately trying to catch up, that's why it's a rivalry

and how the hell you even know i'm an adult, and why do you care, kinda creepy


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## Hardcore (Oct 12, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Indeed. Swinging a sword takes more then just Skill though.



true, but it does not necessarily refer to the overall power

everything is possible, we will see


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 12, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> true, but it does not necessarily refer to the overall power
> 
> everything is possible, we will see



If so then you believe Zoro doesnt have to beat Mihawk then? 

if its a skill contest then beating mihawk doesnt prove your a better swordsmen just means your a better fighter.


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## Tornado (Oct 13, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Whitebeard wasn't a swordsman. Owning a sword doesn't make you a swordsman, and WB didn't even own a sword. You do realise that the one calling it a "sword" was a fan, right? Oda called it a Naginata.


But then Shanks is just a strong dude who owns a sword now. All evidence of him being a pure swordsman and Mihawk's rival is from the past, i.e before losing the sword arm.

So here is what we have - 
Most named characters with swords have other skills. Other skills that can conceivably allow them to beat Mihawk, eg Fujitora dropping a meteor on Mihawk's head. 

So prove that Shanks is all about swordsmanship and nothing else. Burden's on you guys since you are pitted against the fact that > 50% of named characters who use swords have other skillz.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sherlōck (Oct 13, 2019)

Acno said:


> What are you talking?
> 
> Vivecard told us that Mihawk fought Yonkou Shanks



That was wrong info.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

Dunno said:


> What?



Fujitora barely use his sword as his main fire power
and yet he is a swordsman



TheWiggian said:


> you still don't understand how a rivalry works in a manga? after sll the decades of reading them?



Roger had


Rox
Whitebeard
Garp
Shiki

as his rival

but only one of them were his equal

Teach is the equal Rival to Shanks now not Mihawk


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## Steven (Oct 13, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> That was wrong info.


Because you say so?

Or do you have a legit source for that


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 13, 2019)

Shanks / Blackbeard are totally rivals :

-same height
-same birthdate
-both use a sword
-both part of the same generation
-both had legendary duels hyped by the WSM
-stated to be rivals in DB/Vivre Cards

Right ?


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Shanks / Blackbeard are totally rivals :
> 
> -same height
> -same birthdate
> ...



Mihawk was a rivals to young Shanks ... sure
Mihawk is linked to Shanks ... sure

but you really want to deny Shanks and Teach are not rivals?! !!!!

do Roger and Whitebeard havesame height and birthday ?
being part of a generation means you are rivals?

only duels make you rivals and Shanks and Mihawk didn't had that in 12 years or more

when Shanks was rivaling Mihawk he was most liekly just a man like Mihawk but now he have a new main rivals



- one is the next Yonko from Roger crew and one is form Whitebeard
- one have iconic power of Roger (CoC) one have iconic power of
- both have same rank in pirate world and are rivals by rank
- both gold active guards against each other
- both had a duel back in a younger days
- both will have a dead war soon or later

all of this are enough for Making Shanks and Teach ultimate rivals

while Shanks and Mihawk are in good terms and much of a friend then enemy


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Roger had
> 
> 
> Rox
> ...



Rocks was not a rival  
Garp and WB were legit as powerful as Roger so thanks to proving my point and Shiki wasn't either unless you believe a rival with an army no one could rival at that time was fucking stomped.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Hardcore said:


> lol what are you talking about, no they don't
> 
> one is always ahead and the other is always desperately trying to catch up, that's why it's a rivalry
> 
> and how the hell you even know i'm an adult, and why do you care, kinda creepy



Your definition of rivalry is pretty bad my son. Rather gonna accept what it means in the world outside your bubble paradise:



> _*Rivalry*_ comes from the noun _*rival*,_ the person you compete against. Often a *rivalry* starts when people want the same reward — and their talents are just about equal. Your *rivalry* for the lead in the play at the local theater isn't between you and George Clooney — it's between you and the other guy who also had a great audition.



Go have a seat my son. Feel free to take some cookies and milk while you wait.


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 13, 2019)

Imagine believing that 2 people who only had 2 interactions in their entire lives are rivals  

Chapter 957 made it clear that Blackbeard's (Rocks) rival is Luffy (Roger)

Shanks is just a hype tool for Blackbeard, nothing more


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Rocks was not a rival
> Garp and WB were legit as powerful as Roger so thanks to proving my point and Shiki wasn't either unless you believe a rival with an army no one could rival at that time was fucking stomped.



Sengoku : Rocks was greatest rival of Roger
You : ...

sorry ... when I got the facts I don't care about !@!


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Imagine believing that 2 people who only had 2 interactions in their entire lives are rivals
> 
> Chapter 957 made it clear that Blackbeard's (Rocks) rival is Luffy (Roger)
> 
> Shanks is just a hype tool for Blackbeard, nothing more


and to think Oda would save Shanks and his story arc saved for over 22 years just to use him as a hype tool

by now he used Shanks as the most important force for over all plot ... we owe one piece plot to Shanks ... he was the one who start everything and Oda might even save him to be alive until the end ... (I rather to see him dead by end ... but anyway)

sure he would be killed that easy 


p.s

a Mihawk fan should never bring up plot importance ...
while Mihawk is a major factor in one of strew hats story arc
he never did and most likely won't matter for over all one piece plot

p.s 2

soon I need to talk to people about the deference of a personal story arc and over all plot
and explain why Mihawk can die in very next chapter and EVERYTHING IN WORLD (not Zoro life) would be alright

unlike Yonko , admiral and Dragon whom if they die the world would change HEAVILY


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Sengoku : Rocks was greatest rival of Roger
> You : ...
> 
> sorry ... when I got the facts I don't care about !@!



So where was Rocks when Roger did rise to PK? 

A rival doesn't give up midway he constantly hangs around in competition just like Garp and WB.

Looks like he got destroyed just like Shiki was. So much for rivalry.


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> So where was Rocks when Roger did rise to PK?
> 
> A rival doesn't give up midway he constantly hangs around in competition just like Garp and WB.
> 
> Looks like he got destroyed just like Shiki was. So much for rivalry.



dude ... I don't give a rat ass to asnwer anything ...

Sengoku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you


when Sengoku call him the greatest rival to Roger ... it means he was ... THE END

know your place as a fan and obey the story


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## Geralt-Singh (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and to think Oda would save Shanks and his story arc saved for over 22 years just to use him as a hype tool
> 
> by now he used Shanks as the most important force for over all plot ... we owe one piece plot to Shanks ... he was the one who start everything and Oda might even save him to be alive until the end ... (I rather to see him dead by end ... but anyway)
> 
> ...



Yeah Shanks will totally destroy Blackbeard, keep dreaming


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Yeah Shanks will totally destroy Blackbeard, keep dreaming



the problem is ... people assume their head canon is future plot ... as if Oda is some sort of retarded ass who every random guys can perdicit his story like this

we have no clear Idea of when Shanks and Teach would face

and since Luffy crew on it's only can never beat Teach crew (they MIGHT do it when ALL MEMBERS are in FULL PRIME)

it's very well possible Shanks and Luffy both face Teach ... Luffy will finish the job but Shanks would lead the war

much like whitebeard and Luffy where WB was leader and Luffy was hero ...


and MUCH MORE OPTION!!!!!! 


- Shanks will get a FULL story arc just like all Yonko
- Shanks will get a FULL all out war
- Shanks will get a FULL respect form story dead or alive 


any one who deny this simply have no idea what type of story one piece is ... and it's sad


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> dude ... I don't give a rat ass to asnwer anything ...
> 
> Sengoku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
> 
> ...



Ok so Old dying WB >>>>>>>> any Yonkou

Thanks for admitting that WB was the strongest even on his deathbed.

Dying WB >>> Shanks 

I bet dying WB can also 2 shot the Yonks


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Ok so Old dying WB >>>>>>>> any Yonkou
> 
> Thanks for admitting that WB was the strongest even on his deathbed.
> 
> ...



you know what ... I can waste time and explain you what is an "statement"

and explain more how a title would work and if it is a "statement" or not

when a story tell us a plot related statement ... you just have to agree ... if it don't make sense to you ... drop the story for being not logical ... this is all you can do and not more

but just since you are this hopeless to make an argument against plot 

sure ... whitebeard is that and Shanks is above Mihawk


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> you know what ... I can waste time and explain you what is an "statement"
> 
> and explain more how a title would work and if it is a "statement" or not
> 
> ...



Sengoku >>> you
Story >>> you: Mihawk > Shanks


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## Red Admiral (Oct 13, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Sengoku >>> you
> Story >>> you: Mihawk > Shanks



lol ... and yet Mihawk lose every major poll to Shanks ... I wonder why if his claim was a manga statement 

and don't you dare call : people vote cause they are fans

Zoro have officially the biggest fan base in one piece even above Luffy ... 
so if people were to vote for wank ... Mihawk would win


but hopefully the fan fiction base of deny and trolls can't outnumber logical and fair people 


back to topic


Main rivals : people who compete for your ultimate goal 

Roger : being pirate King (freest)
Rocks : being Pirate King (king of all)

WB : having a family 

sure Roger and WB seem like ultimate enemies/rivals 

just having a duel don't make you the main rival of some one .... this is so basic and easy to understand I feel insulted to explain it out loud



sometimes the wall of deny about everything is so big ... you just need to ignore it so it may die in silence


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## Sherlōck (Oct 13, 2019)

Acno said:


> Because you say so?
> 
> Or do you have a legit source for that



Yes, because I say so.


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## Steven (Oct 13, 2019)

Sherlōck said:


> Yes, because I say so.


Great

So it stays,WSS>Shanks

Better feats and Hype has Mihawk


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> lol ... and yet Mihawk lose every major poll to Shanks ... I wonder why if his claim was a manga statement
> 
> and don't you dare call : people vote cause they are fans
> 
> ...



Polls don't mean a thing. It only means he got a bigger fanbase. But good try to push that for an actual argument in a powerlevel debate.


How is that working? We all know that fanbases don't determine any strenght. Even if Zoro would have the biggest fanbase which he doesn't it still doesn't make him stronger than Roger or WB.

Your response regarding fanbase sizes determining the strenght of a character is simply put dumb.

Roger overcame Rocks and became PK just like Mihawk overcame Shanks and became WSS. And yet only WB and Garp were the ones who could compete with Roger one on one. If Rocks without his ultimate crew would face Roger 1 on 1 it's practically a given that Roger would come out on top as he has been portrayed as the most powerful and successful pirate of his age.

*Being called rival by multiple sources including manga, databooks, sbs et cetera >>> your headcanon. *

Guess it's hard to digest that your favourite _*Shanks acknowledges Mihawk as his rival* _while you can't. _In fact he still does as a Yonkou._

Doubt some Shanks fans will ever comprehend the writing that Oda is trying to pass on the young ones.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (Oct 13, 2019)

Tornado said:


> But then Shanks is just a strong dude who owns a sword now. All evidence of him being a pure swordsman and Mihawk's rival is from the past, i.e before losing the sword arm.
> 
> So here is what we have -
> Most named characters with swords have other skills. Other skills that can conceivably allow them to beat Mihawk, eg Fujitora dropping a meteor on Mihawk's head.
> ...


What are you talking about? There is plenty of evidence that Shanks is a swordsman, as I have laid out for you. The idea about "pure" swordsman is nonsensical. Kaku, Mr.1 and Ohm were swordsmen, and were canonically included in Mihawk's status as the WSS. Zoro isn't even a "pure" swordsman. He has used punches and kicks at times.

Let me give you another argument similar to your "> 50% of named characters who use swords have other skillz.". Burden's on you since you are pitted against the fact that > 50% of named characters are weaker than Mihawk.



Red Admiral said:


> Fujitora barely use his sword as his main fire power
> and yet he is a swordsman


 Has Oda called him a swordsman? If he has, then Fujitora is confirmed to be weaker than Mihawk, otherwise, it's still up in the air. Either way, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.


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## Seraphoenix (Oct 14, 2019)

Dunno said:


> *Has Oda called him a swordsman?* If he has, then Fujitora is confirmed to be weaker than Mihawk, otherwise, it's still up in the air. Either way, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.


 
Was in one of the Volumes I believe.


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## Corax (Oct 14, 2019)

The only thing that is clear at this moment is that Mihawk wasn't interested in fighting one armed Shanks,and I am sure that Mihawk is monitoring world for rivals and has the most accurate information possible. So in his eyes one armed yonko Shanks isn't a worthy rival. Before official manga feats for both (all out) this is the only confirmed thing we all have.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tornado (Oct 14, 2019)

Dunno said:


> What are you talking about? There is plenty of evidence that Shanks is a swordsman, as I have laid out for you. The idea about "pure" swordsman is nonsensical. Kaku, Mr.1 and Ohm were swordsmen, and were canonically included in Mihawk's status as the WSS. Zoro isn't even a "pure" swordsman. He has used punches and kicks at times.


"Strongest swordsmanship" titles only refer to pure swordsmanship. Proof: Hachi was called the second strongest swordsman of the fishman pirates despite being weaker than Arlong who is also a swordsman. (swordsfish ?). Hyozou was No.1, and Arlong > Hachi. So that only makes sense if the title means "better at swordsmanship" rather than overall strength.



> Let me give you another argument similar to your "> 50% of named characters who use swords have other skillz.". Burden's on you since you are pitted against the fact that > 50% of named characters are weaker than Mihawk.


Sure,
I can't claim """Shanks is stronger than  Mihawk because he is a named character""".
And you can't claim """Shanks is a pure swordsman because he has a sword""".
I'll take that.


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## GreenBull956 (Oct 14, 2019)

I think either one could win , but betting on Mihawk Extreme Diff

Shanks probably defeated nobodies on his way to become an Emperor . which is why it took so long for him to get called an Emperor lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Oct 14, 2019)

Tornado said:


> "Strongest swordsmanship" titles only refer to pure swordsmanship. Proof: Hachi was called the second strongest swordsman of the fishman pirates despite being weaker than Arlong who is also a swordsman. (swordsfish ?). Hyozou was No.1, and Arlong > Hachi. So that only makes sense if the title means "better at swordsmanship" rather than overall strength.
> 
> 
> Sure,
> ...


"Strongest swordsmanship" refers to swordsmanship, that is true. This has nothing to do with Mihawk though. Oda has stated that he is the strongest swordsman in the world, not that he has the "strongest swordsmanship" in the world. Hyozou wasn't a member of the fishman pirates, he was a mercenary working with them. If you just read that title, it is clear what it means. The strongest swordsman is that strongest individual out of all swordsmen, nothing more nothing less.

I have never claimed that Shanks is a pure swordsman at all. In fact, I believe I've quite clearly expressed exactly how many fucks I give about Shanks' purity.



Seraphoenix said:


> Was in one of the Volumes I believe.


Thanks, that clears that up.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Oct 14, 2019)

Corax said:


> The only thing that is clear at this moment is that Mihawk wasn't interested in fighting one armed Shanks,and I am sure that Mihawk is monitoring world for rivals and has the most accurate information possible. So in his eyes one armed yonko Shanks isn't a worthy rival. Before official manga feats for both (all out) this is the only confirmed thing we all have.



saying a Yonko is not a worthy enemy is BS ... no one dead or alive can be *sure* he can beat Shanks and Shanks can give a death match to any one win or lose 

and it's funny how people don't care about Shanks point of view where he is perfectly fine with fighting Mihawk and don't even feel the need to eat a DF to make up for lack of his lost arm


and Yonko Shanks is clearly above a 27 years old Shanks ... no one can hit Prime in 27


the reason Mihawk don't want the fight is for lack of satisfaction ... win or lose ... he can't get what he had


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## Xebec (Oct 14, 2019)

Acno said:


> Great
> 
> So it stays,WSS>Shanks
> 
> Better feats and Hype has Mihawk


>better hype and feats 



Acno said:


> What are you talking?
> 
> Vivecard told us that Mihawk fought Yonkou Shanks


 


Was recognized as a Yonko 4 years before Luffy started his journey

Again never dueled Yonko level Shanks :gitgud

Reactions: Like 1


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## ImpalerDragon (Oct 14, 2019)

Shanks easy beat mihawk. Mihawk had duels with shanks before yonko. Yonko shanks is on another level.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Oct 15, 2019)

ImpalerDragon said:


> Shanks easy beat mihawk. Mihawk had duels with shanks before yonko. Yonko shanks is on another level.



Mihawk easy beat Shanks. Shanks had duels with Mihawk before WSS. WSS Mihawk is on another level

Reactions: Like 2


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## Vengeance (Oct 16, 2019)

If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, Zoro would target him. As simple as that.


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## Tornado (Oct 17, 2019)

Dunno said:


> I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. The strongest swordsman in the world is the man out of all swordsmen in the world who is the strongest. There is literally no other possible explanation as long as you are unwilling to thoroughly violate the English language.


You haven't explained why Hachi was the #2 strongest swordsman on fishman island (ref: chapter 84 page 17). Shouldn't it have been:
1. Hyozou
2. Arlong
3. Hachi
Means Arlong wasn't considered swordsman enough to be part of this list, which muddies the waters with regard to how Oda sees "strongest swordsman" titles, more likely than not it only applies to "pure swordsmen", people like Vista Zoro and Mihawk.

Also Zoro's little speech during the Cabaji duel suggests you need more than swordsmanship skill to be "worthy of calling yourself a swordmsan". Now clearly Shanks knows how to use a sword but Mihawk also refuses to fight him, the lack of an arm clearly just an excuse given that Shanks is much stronger than when they last fought. Suggests there is more to it than "Shanks is a swordsman therefore weaker than Mihawk!!".


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## Ren. (Oct 17, 2019)

Amol said:


> Hey don't look at me. Someone was going to do it and I at least didn't try to pretend topic was something different when it really was just Shanks Vs Mihawk.
> So Mihawk has never ever fought Yonkou Shanks. He only fought with Shanks who was not big enough of Pirate given WG gave no shit about his where about which they will now give. It means Mihawk really has no idea how strong Shanks is.
> So what do you all think about this development?
> Let the bloodbath begin.


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## Dunno (Oct 17, 2019)

Tornado said:


> You haven't explained why Hachi was the #2 strongest swordsman on fishman island (ref: chapter 84 page 17). Shouldn't it have been:
> 1. Hyozou
> 2. Arlong
> 3. Hachi
> ...


What Hachi says is Hachi's opinion. It's not Oda's words, it's Hachi's. They are also obviously wrong, since Hachi isn't even on Fishman Island when he makes the statement. It holds about as much weight as Pica's statement that he could handle everyone on Dressrosa by himself. It's possible that Arlong isn't a swordsman, but then again, Arlong hasn't dueled a swordsman rival on a regular basis, hasn't only ever used swordsmanship in fights, doesn't have swords on his Jolly Roger and hasn't been praised for his swordsmanship. We know that M1.1, Kaku and Ohm were considered swordsmen, which means that Oda doesn't care about "purity".

Reactions: Like 1


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## icyBankai (Oct 17, 2019)

They should be around each other's level enough to be considered rivals. Any argument stating that either one is stronger would most likely be biased and taken with a grain of salt. Lots of mental gymnastics and overreaching from fanboys of both sides...


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## Tenma (Oct 18, 2019)

Dunno said:


> They are also obviously wrong, since Hachi isn't even on Fishman Island when he makes the statement.



bruh


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