# Why Naruto ending sucks



## Naruto Fighto (Nov 7, 2014)

I will list all the reasons on why Kishimoto dropped the ball big time in his finale of "Naruto". This manga could have been somebody, it could have been a contender. Instead of a fucking bum, which it is, lets face it. 

1) Disappointing final villain(s) and the bad fights and resolutions that came out of it:

First of all, the main villain needs to be connected with somebody from the main cast to make it personal and secondly the final fight should be satisfying. No one from the main cast gave two shits about Madara, Kaguya or Zetsu. 
The only villain that was connected to the main cast was Tobi and he got shafted and shitted on.  The final fights lasted for 200 chapters where nothing but big explosions and asspulls was happening. Then came the sage of the 6 paths out of nowhere and gave away upgrades.

No tension, no satisfaction. No personal fighting with feelings involved, no emotion and 0 resolution or the feeling of main character overcoming the final villain.

2) Nobody got a good treatment. 

At the end, with so many characters, Kishimoto couldn't even give one character a normal character path where he develops, fights, wins and learns a lesson and changes for the better. 

Sasuke doesn't count because he changed after getting his ass kicked. He didn't learn anything by himself or achieved a personal victory. Not only that, he was doing 360 turns every two chapters near the end of shipuden. 
Naruto went into super Jesus mode and stayed that way through the shipuden. 
Kakashi, still wears the mask after 15 years? Still by himself? The only thing he got was shit. 

If at least ONE of them, managed to give a satisfying personal fight against the main villain I would have been happy. Instead, I don't know what we got. Obito got redeemed half way through, then everyone was group failing and slapping each other till the end. 

3) Do you really give a shit about the characters at the end? I don't. Who cares about the rock village kage or Mei or former raikage? They were introduced in the last 10 percent of the entire manga. So I read panels with them like they are some important characters, I don't give a shit what happened with them. Meanwhile Neji and Lee get one panel. Kakashi got one panel that demonstrated what a fucking loser he still was. Lesson not learned. 

4) Lessons learned from Naruto manga?

It's ok to be a mass murderer, you can get away with it (Orochimaru for example) because justice is something baaaad in "Naruto".
It's ok to kill an entire clan of people (Uchihas), including children, because they were baaaad people. It's not ok to question this because the people that did the massacre were "heroes". It's also not something important apparently because it doesn't even get mentioned in the final resolution.
You should always forgive the villain, instead of having a badass fight and killing him. I mean, its a manga about ninjas.
If you are an introverted character (Shino, Kakashi, Neji), prepare to get that shit on your face. You either end up alone, working as a fucking teacher in an elementary school or dead from a fodder attack that Sakura would dodge. It doesn't matter how badass you were or actually are. 

I am pretty serious, that I would write a better part two with my eyes closed and while on heavy medications.


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## m1cojakle (Nov 7, 2014)

I agree with you and I also think you could write a better script than Kishi. Fuck, a monkey probably could.


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## Jeαnne (Nov 7, 2014)

"360 turns"


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## tkpirate (Nov 7, 2014)

yeah,mostly agree.but



> It's ok to kill an entire clan of people (Uchihas), including children, because they were baaaad people. It's not ok to question this because the people that did the massacre were "heroes".



well,Itachi was a hero to Konoha,because he saved Konoha.



> You should always forgive the villain, instead of having a badass fight and killing him. I mean, its a manga about ninjas.



well,thats what you wanted to see not what Kishi wanted to show.
this manga was never about killing,it was about understanding each other.Kishi always wanted to show that noone is born evil/villain.the entire pain arc was basically about this.


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## Stan Lee (Nov 7, 2014)

-People released from IT show no disappointment after waking up from over 24 hour dream where their decreased loved ones were alive. This is just weak writing.
-Spiral Zetsu dies for no reason. 
-Tsunade makes Kakashi Hokage for no reason. I mean that there is no reason given for Tsunade to resign right away.
-No closure to Orochimaru, Kabuto, and many other characters.
-Sasuke didn't revive people who's deaths he partly caused by helping revive the Juubi. So he isn't truly redeemed in my eyes.
-SasuSaku is the easily the worst thing in this.

This was a lame and rushed ending, IMO. 

Epilogue was alright though. Minus SasuSaku of course.


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## Naruto Fighto (Nov 7, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> well,thats what you wanted to see not what Kishi wanted to show.
> this manga was never about killing,it was about understanding each other.Kishi always wanted to show that noone is born evil/villain.the entire pain arc was basically about this.



You can have Sasuke for the redemption part. Or Gara, Zabuza, Nagato..... we get the point.

There should had been at least one final villain that mattered that was unredeemable. So I can have some proper closure with this story. 

And Kaguya, Zetsu, Madara don't count. They were nobodies to the main cast. Tobi should had been the unredeemable villain with personal ties to the main cast that gets killed at the end. 

Also like I said, some normal character growth for any of the characters would have been welcomed.
Like Sasuke seems to forget about the Uchiha massacre completely at the end, he doesn't care that Tobi was behind it at all. 
Naruto also doesn't care that much about the fact he lost his parents and a lot of friends because of Tobi. 

In general the atrocities are easily overlooked in this manga, there is no sense of justice that can only come about when the villain is punished. That is what makes the story cathartic, instead villains get overlooked instead of punished.

All I wanted was at least one villain and one good fight. And I didn't get that. 

And don't bring up star wars, in star wars Darth Vader turning good was original and unique. In this manga, every villain with a backstory does it. I just feel bad for reading this story, that doesn't have a proper closure, normal character growth or normal moral values.


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## chauronity (Nov 7, 2014)

I don't agree. The ending was nice and it was wrapped quite nicely. Granted, it was a bit rushed but the story couldn't have gone on forever.

Reread this arc and you'll see how it works.


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## Arles Celes (Nov 7, 2014)

Naruto Fighto said:


> 4) Lessons learned from Naruto manga?
> 
> .



Guess for a start....that even if one has a really good figure it is important to always watch out with the sweets or you may end up Anko'd. 


I though she was pregnant at first. Seriously. Damn.


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## ovanz (Nov 7, 2014)

While i don't hate the direction Kishi took with his story, i dislike how everything happened offpanel and rushed. 

Kakashi entire run as Hokage = offpanel. Even Danzo the Pimp had way more panel time as hokage than kakashi. 

Naruto ceremony to becoming a Hokage (you know the main goal of the main character) = offpanel.

Weird couples getting married and having kids at random (chouji and whatshername) = offpanel. 

Orochimaru, Kabuto, Taka fate = ignored /offpanel.

Did Teuchi the ramen guy, finally kill the sun with ramen? we can only guess because it was offpanel.


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## Stan Lee (Nov 7, 2014)

ovanz said:


> Orochimaru, Kabuto, Taka fate = ignored /offpanel.
> .



And the seven other tailed beast.


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## Overhaul (Nov 13, 2014)

> *Why  ending sucks*



*Spoiler*: __ 



No Orochimaru,bitch.


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## Jυstin (Nov 13, 2014)

Naruto's ending doesn't suck.

It's just... meh.

It's in that realm where it could be better, could be worse. More so that it could be better.

At least it didn't end like the School Days anime.

Holy fuck that ending was terrible. I can't in good conscience call any ending terrible after seeing that.

Kishi's ending just left much to be desired, and lots of "What the fuck?"s.


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## TheOmega (Nov 13, 2014)

All ya haters can quit now and leave part 3 for the real fans to enjoy in peace


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## Jυstin (Nov 13, 2014)

I was once called not a true fan of Sonic the Hedgehog.

Sonic the Hedgehog, one of my favorite franchises _of all time_.

I'd put a few of their games in my top 10 list.

Why was I accused of not being a fan?

Because I said the Sonic 2006 game was awful.

Apparently I'm only a fan of something if I blindly pretend that its shit never stinks.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

Jeαnne said:


> "360 turns"



It means to go back where you started.


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## Grendel (Nov 13, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> It means to go back where you started.



Yes but the way it was used it the op clearly indicates he meant 180 and not 360....not that this really matters....i am just bored at work


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## SharkBomb 4 (Nov 13, 2014)

Kishi's handling of the main villains sucked, but not because Obito got "shafted". In fact it feels like he was the only one that got the respect and focus he deserved. Kishi however, seriously fucked up in terms of how he handled Madara/Black Zetsu and by introducing Kaguya.

Madara did have ties to the main cast when you really think about it.

He was the complete antithesis to Naruto (not a parallel, but the exact opposite).
He was a reflection of what Sasuke could become one day.
He was the man behind one of the biggest tragedies of Kakashi's life.
And to Obito... do I even need to explain it?

Kaguya was the character that the cast _really_ didn't give a shit about. Nothing she did had any emotional weight or resonance, she was pretty much a mindless puppet pulled along by Black Zetsu's whims. 

For example, Kaguya killing Obito would not have the same weight Madara doing the same would have. Obito sacrificing himself to rescue Kakashi again, something Madara used as an argument for why the world was shitty, and something that actually , would be like it coming full circle. Obito would be directly refuting Madara's premise that the world was hell because of these sacrifices. He would be arguing that he chose to make that sacrifice so the world could be more bearable for others.

You know what I felt for Kaguya when she killed Obito? Absolutely nothing. My feelings were as hollow as she was. With Madara, I would have gotten emotional. I would have been angry, sad, shocked; all things a good manga should do. Obito's emotional speech and death was a powerful moment, but Madara being part of that really would have made it so much more.

I don't know, it's just the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get with this Kaguya business. It's only gotten worse and worse.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

-snip-

Yes, the biggest waste in this story were the antagonists. Each one of them had potential (except Kaguya), and Kishi to his credit sure knows how to build them up. What leaves much to be desired is the delivery. Akatsuki most notably being the biggest waste in the entire series. Having them be killed too fast too soon created a void in antagonistic presence that was never really filled after most of them had gone. What is even worse is Kishi, along with TNJ overused the 'man behind the man' trope to levels that almost seemed like parody. 

If there was going to be a war, it would have been a really good idea to save some of their final confrontations for that time. Pain's initial plan provided numerous opportunity to establish Akatsuki as a true mercenary force with their own acolytes, and with Sasori this was going in a good direction...I have to wonder what happened that Kishi did not exploit this more. To me this is why the Moon's Eye Plan was so underwhelming, its consequence was that it simplified all the complex matters Pain had introduced into the story, which could have created for interesting conflict, into a simple monster/zombie apocalypse where all the problems can go away by shoving a Rasengan at it. It removed all the difficult concepts of war, the complex ethical decisions, collateral damage, etc. It is really strange that what was supposed to be the largest deciding war in their history with the largest unified coalition and they somehow found a deserted area to fight in it where they could not have before as well. Most importantly it still seems like everything we saw from Obito and/or Madara could have been easily filled by Pain...

What I find most absurd is that Naruto took out far less antagonists than Sasuke had and despite many of them supposed to be going after him, somehow fell victim to Sasuke. This in regards to not only use of antagonists, but potential for Naruto's development as a hero character was one of the biggest wastes in Kishi's writing. Particularly with Danzo.


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## Zynn (Nov 13, 2014)

I am pretty amused by how, from all seven hundred chapters, OP can only take lessons from the *ending*, and all of them are *bad* lessons. The negativity, man, it's like you don't even know how to make a good critic. 

Frak this, I'm just gonna quote my explanation from before. 



Zynn said:


> Dude. If they have no evidence to back up their claim on how they can create something better, then they are troll.
> 
> On another note, people in this forum seems to not completely understand what criticism really is. Here, I'll provide you guys with the definition.
> 
> ...


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

The bad lessons are due to warping of what are generally good themes. Furthermore your post does not, nor has it ever, addressed the general criticism people have made. You talk about what makes a good critic, without even knowing what the criticism is and clearly enough without knowing the nature of criticism in general. The fact that for example you think dislike or hate of a character is the same as being so against the author itself shows how little you understand on the matter. Your parameters on 'balanced' criticism is completely vague too.


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## Zynn (Nov 13, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> The bad lessons are due to warping of what are generally good themes. Furthermore your post does not, nor has it ever, addressed the general criticism people have made. You talk about what makes a good critic, without even knowing what the criticism is and clearly enough without knowing the nature of criticism in general. The fact that for example you think dislike or hate of a character is the same as being so against the author itself shows how little you understand on the matter. Your parameters on 'balanced' criticism is completely vague too.



Ah, I see. So, what is your definition of criticism? Bad points, more bad points... and more bad points? 

I don't even know why I'm taking asinine guys like seriously anymore... :rofl


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Ah, I see. So, what is your definition of criticism? Bad points, more bad points... and more bad points?
> 
> I don't even know why I'm taking asinine guys like seriously anymore... :rofl



Criticism is simply that. The degree of it is dependent on the quality of writing and how the story is received by the general audience. Your demands and parameters on what counts as valid criticism considering that are completely asinine (this is how you use the word), as there are times in a story and there are many stories of which little merit can be pulled from. In contrast there are those stories that have more merit to them than flaws, so not as much to be stated on a critical viewpoint. "Balanced" criticism is ultimately a ridiculous and arbitrary demand, the degree of it again varying depending on the story being discussed or at points within it. Yet again, as I stated you're not really addressing anything.


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## Zef (Nov 13, 2014)

@Zynn... Criticism is criticism whether it's full of bad points or good ones. However I am annoyed how some people here feel the obligation to do it nonstop and ruin the ending for the people who actually enjoyed the it. Some pairing fans have had to avoid the KL all week due to constant bashing


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 13, 2014)

it was just boring and really bad


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## Zynn (Nov 13, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Criticism is simply that. The degree of it is dependent on the quality of writing and how the story is received by the general audience. Your demands and parameters on what counts as valid criticism considering that are completely asinine (this is how you use the word), as there are times in a story and there are many stories of which little merit can be pulled from. In contrast there are those stories that have more merit to them than flaws, so not as much to be stated on a critical viewpoint. "Balanced" criticism is ultimately a ridiculous and arbitrary demand, the degree of it again varying depending on the story being discussed or at points within it. Yet again, as I stated you're not really addressing anything.



Nahh, I'm addressing your attitude while doing it. You rarely even try to be constructive or helpful, and you only said 'Balanced' criticism is ridiculous because you are incapable of doing it.

Here, why don't I direct you to an article. Although considering how you act most of the time, I suspect you won't even read this. 



And it is 'arbitrary' because the *majority *of people agree that it is the *right* way of doing it. Of course, feel free to be the 'odd one out'. I'm sure you're quite used to that.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

Zynn said:


> Nahh, I'm addressing your attitude while doing it. You rarely even try to be constructive or helpful, and you only said 'Balanced' criticism is ridiculous because you are incapable of doing it.
> 
> Here, why don't I direct you to an article. Although considering how you act most of the time, I suspect you won't even read this.
> 
> ...



No, you're trying to make it about me or any other critic because you can't actually address the actual criticism. Truthfully it doesn't matter who the person is, it's all about scrambling for a reason to gloss over what people are stating if it is something you don't like. 

Like what you stated was dumb. 'helpful' criticism? I'm not one of his editors, and criticism expressed on the forum isn't done so with the expectation or intention of, reaching Kishimoto. Criticism on a forum is...surprise, there to facilitate discussion of the story. I notice there are many types like you  that don't discuss the story at all or address the criticisms. All you do is complain about the people making them.

Do...you know what 'arbitrary' even means...?

Also, your use of the article is flawed. Again this isn't reaching Kishimoto, so there's really no need for this.  Because the point of it is to not put the person that you are offering critique to be put on the defensive. Yet this isn't reaching Kishi, once again so no need for such considerations.

This isn't matters of the workplace either, this is _literary_ critique, and so the only policy is honesty. If a story is bad it is bad, if a story is good it is good, and if a story has good and bad points the idea is to each point them out as the critic(s) feel they exist.

Furthermore a flaw in this method you linked:



> seriously, i think this comes up short. people have a natural defensiveness to hearing feedback. one of the biggest issues of providing feedback is provide a CLEAR description of the issue…AND…and way to improve it.
> 
> in this method things are sugar coated and it sounds like a boss in the movie “office space” that is too unassertive to be clear with negative feedback. lots of employees will bounce the negative off and ignore it using this method.
> 
> ...



What's even more ironic is that you yourself don't even follow the article's demands.

What this all goes back to is a general point is that people like you offer far less constructive discussion than anyone. Because whatever it may be and however it is presented, critics *are actually discussing the story*, those like you in turn however choose to complain about them doing so, which has _nothing_ to do with the story.


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## Zynn (Nov 13, 2014)

Seto Kaiba said:


> No, you're trying to make it about me or any other critic because you can't actually address the actual criticism. Truthfully it doesn't matter who the person is, it's all about scrambling for a reason to gloss over what people are stating if it is something you don't like.
> 
> Like what you stated was dumb. 'helpful' criticism? I'm not one of his editors, and criticism expressed on the forum isn't done so with the expectation or intention of, reaching Kishimoto. Criticism on a forum is...surprise, there to facilitate discussion of the story. I notice there are many types like you  that don't discuss the story at all or address the criticisms. All you do is complain about the people making them.
> 
> Do...you know what 'arbitrary' even means...?



Ah, yes. I'm using the definition of arbitrary by what it means in linguistic. You were using the literal meaning. My bad.



> Also, your use of the article is flawed. Again this isn't reaching Kishimoto, so there's really no need for this.  Because the point of it is to not put the person that you are offering critique to be put on the defensive. Yet this isn't reaching Kishi, once again so no need for such considerations.
> 
> This isn't matters of the workplace either, this is _literary_ critique, and so the only policy is honesty. If a story is bad it is bad, if a story is good it is good, and if a story has good and bad points the idea is to each point them out as the critic(s) feel they exist.



I see, so you're telling me that you feel only the bad points need to be addressed when you're making a honest critic. Hmm, not really my cup of tea, but it's your choice. 

Ahh, so you agree that this will never reach Kishimoto anyway. 





> What's even more ironic is that you yourself don't even follow the article's demands.
> 
> What this all goes back to is a general point is that people like you offer far less constructive discussion than anyone. Because whatever it may be and however it is presented, critics *are actually discussing the story*, those like you in turn however choose to complain about them doing so, which has _nothing_ to do with the story.



What didn't I follow? I addressed the issue (the critical attitude), described what the issue is (the attitude being oh so negative and pretty much doing no justice to the series as a whole because it only focused on the ending), and even provide a way to fix the issue (by providing a few pointers on how to make a constructive and balanced criticism). 

Mind you, I originally directed all that to the OP of the thread, and somehow you're the one answering. Similar people really do flock together, don't they?


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## babaGAReeb (Nov 13, 2014)

-snip-

you do know that criticism does not need to be constructive to be valid right?


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## Zynn (Nov 13, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> -snip-
> 
> you do know that criticism does not need to be constructive to be valid right?



Of course I do. I was merely offering advice, whether they follow it or not is their choice. I'm not forcing anyone. If they're comfortable being so negative and have no plan of stopping, then I'll just back off. 

Although several times now some people I had an argument with tend to just not answer anymore before anything is settled and/or concession is reached. One even said that she want others to see her way, yet also stated that she didn't want me to agree with her. I guess I'm just that shitty in their eyes that they didn't even want finish their arguments with me.

EDIT: Huh, once again the argument stopped before any concession was made. Well, I guess the other guy's just too afraid to continue.


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## Seto Kaiba (Nov 13, 2014)

babaGAReeb said:


> -snip-
> 
> you do know that criticism does not need to be constructive to be valid right?



They never attempt to actually address anything criticized...

Well, I'll just continue where I left off. I was leading up to Naruto's development as a hero character. Basically, too many antagonists were squandered to Sasuke whom didn't need such development through those fights. One of the largest wastes being Danzo, once again. Primarily because Danzo represented something that he couldn't just power his way through, Danzo presents in himself ethical dilemmas and the dark side to maintaining peace and stability in one's environment. The things he has done, and how that relates to Konoha and its prosperity for example, could have presented a challenging set of questions for Naruto and his newly adopted ideologies he gained in encountering Pain. It is not simply matters of love or understanding that can drive war, it can be simple greed and lust for power, and even more complicated such pursuits can result in the gains of others as well, or with that in mind. Danzo was one that characterized those aspects.


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## Za Fuuru (Nov 13, 2014)

Zero Requiem said:


> -People released from IT show no disappointment after waking up from over 24 hour dream where their decreased loved ones were alive. This is just weak writing.


people released from IT didn't talk at all. How can this be "weak writing" if you dont even know what they were thinking



> Spiral Zetsu dies for no reason.


Spiral had his reason for die. No one dies for no reason. There must be an explanation. He was part of the Tree, he was born from the previous IT so maybe he was "overwritten" by the new IT and turned into wood. When the new IT got dispelled he turned into ashes



> Tsunade makes Kakashi Hokage for no reason.


Tsunade was OLD AS FUCK, and not very strong being mainly a medic. Kakashi's generation never had a Hokage and Kakashi was BY FAR the strongest of his gen.



> No closure to Orochimaru, Kabuto, and many other characters.


manga is far from ending. It just started. #700 is actually the first chapter of the sequel



> Sasuke didn't revive people who's deaths he partly caused by helping revive the Juubi. So he isn't truly redeemed in my eyes.


he never used Rinne Tensei, it's a very risky jutsu and I'm not even sure he can do it. He learnt Chibaku only AFTER his fight with Kaguya



> SasuSaku is the easily the worst thing in this.


SasuSaku don't live together and there is no physical evidence that Sakura is Salada's BIOLOGICAL mother.


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## Kusa (Nov 13, 2014)

Why, i personally did not like the ending.

Naruto begun as the typical shonen manga. The main character is a loser who doesn't have anything. He doesn't have any talents, friends, and family, but has a huge dream which seems to be  inaccessible, but every reader knows that in the end he will make his dream true. He will go through very hard times but endure it. His big heart, patience and hard work will help him to reach out his dream. How those kind of stories end are already given since the first chapter/episode. Those kind of stories have a very unrealistic outlook on life, but exactly this makes them so appealing. They give the kind of ending that everyone wishes for themselves. In those stories not the ending but the journey that leads to that ending is that what matters. In this journey, the main character has to overcome many obstacles.

This is also exaclty how Naruto went. He had to fight villains, his best friend left e.t.c. The story developed like in any kind of shonen, well until Pain made his appearence. Unlike the villains before, he was not interested in power but in peace. Unlike the other times, Naruto didn't only need to beat him, but to convince him and show him that he can bring true peace. From that point, the story was not merely about the journey of this little boy who wanted to become Hokage and had to beat the bad guys. The story became about something much greater. The love/hatred/ peace theme was added into the story and Naruto became the destined who who would end the chain of hatred in the ninja world. Kishimoto made Naruto the destined child, thus by the end of the manga Naruto was supposed to end the chain of hatred. This is without a question an impossible task, no one can have a control over that, but the way Naruto was potrayed and the villains who did want *eternal *peace or the kind of peace that would consist very long got redeemed by him, meaning they were convinced that Naruto would *fullfil *this task for them. Sasuke was also not talking simply about achieving peace, because peace was already achieved. He was talking about how the chain of hatred could be controled to not cause any chaos in the ninja world *ever  again*. Naruto did not mention any different possibilities that could lead to the same results Sasuke was hoping to get with his plan. He only made clear, that he would never leave his friend alone. To him not Sasukes plan was the problem, but Sasuke suffering again. This made the story about the little boy who would never give up on his friend again. There was not a bigger picture about it. It was fight between the main character who wants to get his best friend back, not about two people who fight because they have a different conception about how the chain of hatred that used  to harm the harmony in the shinobi could be stopped.

It is understandable, why Kishi would make this fight more personal instead political. A personal fight seems more appealing than a fight that is based on different people fighting because they share different views. After the fight however, the only result that came out to end the chain of hatred was that there isn't any result to that at all. Enduring/hoping is apparently the key for peace, which is the same as saying there isn't any, because nothing is going to stop someone in the future for doing the things Obito/ Madara did. What is going to stop them ? Someone telling  them to hope  for a better future or to endure their pain ? This won't acheive or change anything or stop those people from doing of what they are doing. In the end, all of this child of prophecy was proven to be for nothing. The villains never wanted to create peace, they wanted to create one that would last forever. Naruto should have never have been able to convince them , when he did not find a way for that himself, but came to the conculusion that a Shinobi has to endure. After Naruto dies, something might happen that will result a choas in the shinobi world, and the chain of hatred will be unavoidable again. It will be like how it used to be before peace was created in the shinobi world.

Kishi should  have atleast made Naruto think about avoiding such a situation in the future, but he didn't. He probably did not, because this is a shonen manga and there isn't a way to stop any chain of hatred, or do anything against it, but then he should have not put Naruto in such a situation. Naruto should have never been succesful with convincing his enemies. Kishi completly tried to avoid making Naruto think at all about this matter in the of the manga. All we got by the end was a typical shonen ending, with the protoganist getting all he wanted like it was expected from the beginning. Kishimotos mistake was not keeping it simple from the beginning till the ending, but trying to add more depth in the problems in the shinobi world that can't be solved in a shonen manga like Naruto. It was an attempt of him trying to portray the villains more reasonable, which was a huge mistake, because in the end they looked like idiots, who changed for the guy who doesn't have any answer himself and believes enduring is the key.

So, that leaves me completely unsatisfied.


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## Addy (Nov 13, 2014)

so much hatred 


i can list a thousand reason why the ending is bad, but i dont think it sucks as much as people think it is.


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## Jυstin (Nov 13, 2014)

I had this typed somewhere else, so I'm just gonna be lazy and copy paste it.

One of my problems is how the fights turned out, which are MUCH different than how they were in Part 1, which relied heavily on trickery, skill, stealth, intelligence, quick movements and thinking, deception, and other similar elements. Power levels and nuclear blasts, and Megazords and Super Saiyans weren't even a thing. It worked for Dragon Ball Z, but Naruto isn't Dragon Ball Z. It was better. Its fights in Part 1 were far more enjoyable than DBZ fights, so there was no need to try to emulate them. Some liked the huge explosive fights, but I didn't because it made it hard to believe anyone in Part 2 was a ninja anymore. One of my favorite and most impressionable moments was when Naruto and Sasuke duped Zabuza with that double fuuma shuriken/clone transformation trick that allowed them to free Kakashi from the Suiton Prison. No big explosions or super powers. Just pure intelligence and cunning that allowed two genin to overtake a jounin. Pure badass.

Another thing is that Kishimoto had created a really solid story with a concrete theme and good direction. In Part 2, there really wasn't much direction and the story felt all over the place. It was hard to stay immersed in it like I was in Part 1. Plot points kept changing or jumping around, and the theme of hard work beating genius was kinda thrown out. Naruto gained most of his power through powerups, being either from Kurama, being an Uzumaki, from the Sage of 6 Paths, etc.. And the whole argument against destiny was shattered with Naruto being the subject of 2 prophecies, as well as being the reincarnation of Ashura, just like Hashirama, which made Hashirama and Madara destined to fight as well as Naruto and Sasuke being destined to fight. It's not bad in and of itself, but it really did contradict the theme that was established.

Kishimoto also wasted the potential of his villains. He did a great job at building them up... for the most part, but just never could finish it in execution. Orochimaru was probably the biggest letdown. He greatly overused the "No, I'm the true villain" plot point to a point where it became tiresome, and ended it on a villain who had almost no buildup, no character, and almost no connection to the story aside from maybe one quick mention almost right before her arrival that was the equivalent of "Oh yeah see that big tree there? Eve took a bite of its fruit a long time ago and then we were born.", and _that_ is supposed to pass as "foreshadowing".

A last major complaint is about the characters themselves. In Part 1, you knew that Naruto and Sasuke were gonna be the main characters, but all the other characters got decent attention and development too. They had their own struggles and stories, and Kishimoto focused on their feelings and inner conflicts and turmoils. They had personality and a pretty big influence on the story, more than a lot of other series allowed their side characters to have on their own stories. In Part 2, this was pretty much forgotten. They had discussions, but never really talked to each other much. They didn't really continue developing on a personal level, or develop their relationships with the other characters. We had a little bit of it, like with Asuma's death, but it was still in very small quantities and it pretty much altogether stopped at a certain point, and any time they were shown was pretty superficial most of the time. It didn't focus much on their character or their feelings, and didn't portray them well either. Neji's death, and the reactions to it that followed, are a prime example. His Part 1 "death" was handled much more emotionally and was much more fleshed out. Stuff like that example, and on quite a few occasions characters seemed to act very OoC, seemingly for the sake of rushing the plot along.

Basically side characters didn't feel like just side characters in Part 1. Kishi made them all seem like they could be main characters, to different degrees, which wasn't done by many anime/manga artists. However, in Part 2, they went from being kinda like main characters to being almost fodder in accomplishments, relevance, and development. Completely 180 turn.

Outside of those 3 complaints are also the occasional dues ex machina, hyperbole, and plot hole or inconsistency, but pretty much every series has that to some degree, so it's negligible. Although the lack of consistency with character feats made the feats themselves less impressive and impacting over time, because logic seemed to be applied much less. Amaterasu's inconsistency is a prime example. But it's not THAT big a deal, though it did make the dramatic fights less impressive to me personally, because I stopped taking feats and accomplishments seriously. I was, by that point, under the impression that any character could do anything, despite their established capabilities and past performances, so I stopped caring.

Pretty much, my main complaints only really apply to the latter half of Part 2, shortly after the Sasuke and Itachi fight.


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## slickcat (Nov 13, 2014)

ah well just be glad its done


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## King BOo (Nov 13, 2014)

I thought everything up until Kaguya was very entertaining.  Kaguya was handled terribly, idk how he so quickly went from entertaining interesting action and drama to boring soulless uninteresting shit, but I'm assuming it had to do with the obnoxious need to end it on chapter 700.  Naruto vs Sasuke was way to fucking short and basic, no finesse no tension on who was gonna win just way too bare minimum which is bullshit for an ending.  If the fights leading up to this didn't get the bare minimum why did these last 2 crucial finales get such a lack of elaboration?  It's just bullshit


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## Saturnine (Dec 22, 2014)

WTF OP? Of all things you could criticize you choose the fact that Kakashi wasn't shown to be in a relationship? SUCH SINGLISM


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## Patrick (Dec 22, 2014)

The weirdest thing about the ending was the IT release. Everyone was having the time of their life in their dreams and were finally relieved of all the hate and suffering from the actual world. Then Naruto and Sasuke release the IT and everyone is free again. Yay, right? Well, no. They wake from their perfect dream to see a destroyed field with casualties everywhere.


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## Rios (Dec 22, 2014)

Saturnine said:


> WTF OP? Of all things you could criticize you choose the fact that Kakashi wasn't shown to be in a relationship? SUCH SINGLISM



Kishimoto's stupid "new generation surpasses the only one" I guess. I didnt see many older folks getting into relationships, just young studs and sluts.


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## LesExit (Dec 22, 2014)

Patrick said:


> The weirdest thing about the ending was the IT release. Everyone was having the time of their life in their dreams and were finally relieved of all the hate and suffering from the actual world. Then Naruto and Sasuke release the IT and everyone is free again. Yay, right? Well, no. They wake from their perfect dream to see a destroyed field with casualties everywhere.


Ya I cannot at all understand why Kishi did nothing with that.....


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## Danshi (Mar 17, 2015)

My humble view Point. Naruto is a fail. I give it a F+++++++++++ If I was a English teacher or in this case a Japanese Teacher.  If I was one.

The only thing I'll admit is that Kishimoto is a good artist that's he is to me an artist but he's a bad at writing stories.


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## thebrightestshadow (Mar 18, 2015)

Needed more br00tal scenes like Obito's flashback.  I with the Zetsu fodders shot wood spikes that impaled shinobi, and we saw their corpses strewn across the battle field, which we did get to see with the Juubi..... but still, maybe half eaten corpses then from zombie zetsus.  For the end we should have seen some Shinobi's getting mutated into Zetsu, to raise tension around sealing Kaguya, especially after bad joke no jutsu (aka gay no jutsu) ruined all tension.  Minato wakes up, we see him go to try and cut people down, he sees that some people are already half way transformed, he has a really horrified expression on his face.  That would have been a good creepy scene a throw back to stuff like this.


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## HolyHands (Mar 18, 2015)

Kishi has made the act of randomly dropping plot points, themes, and characters into an art-form. From the contradiction of the hard work vs. genius theme to the dropping of the whole cycle of hatred, to Orochimaru's random disappearance to the lack of real resolution to the Uchiha clan to the lack of ANY real explanation as to who the fuck Kaguya is, and so on.

It could have been salvaged a lot better if the ending chapters were 10 chapters long instead of just two. It wouldn't be perfect by any means, but it would be better than what we got.


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## thebrightestshadow (Mar 18, 2015)

Naruto isn't a story where you're told things, you gotta search for meanings, like how the whole Orochimaru and Hiruzen story mirrors paradise lost and genesis with the serpent.  Orochimaru is caught doing demented experiments in order to obtain immortality and ultimate power, and thus banished by the ruler of Konoha aka "the God of Shinobi".  He then tempts Sasuke with forbidden power in the Forest of Death, very much like Satan tempted even with the fruit that promised forbidden power in Eden, which could be looked at as the opposite of Forest of Death.  Later, Hiruzen steals his arms, forcing him to crawl in the shadows, just like god stole the serpent's limbs forcing satan to crawl in the shadows.


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## Plague (Mar 18, 2015)

Did we really need another thread like this?


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## Alkaid (Mar 18, 2015)

Naruto Fighto said:


> If you are an introverted character (Shino, Kakashi, Neji), prepare to get that shit on your face. You either end up alone, working as a fucking teacher in an elementary school or dead from a fodder attack that Sakura would dodge. It doesn't matter how badass you were or actually are.



Shino's waifu died and Kakashi is a wizard. What do you want them to do?


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## thebrightestshadow (Mar 18, 2015)

yeah Kakashi really deserves at least 3 virgin hotties


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## Epyon (Mar 18, 2015)

Za Fuuru said:


> people released from IT didn't talk at all. How can this be "weak writing" if you dont even know what they were thinking



That them reflected on it was not depicted is bad writing, regardless of what you imagine is going on in their heads.



> Spiral had his reason for die. *No one dies for no reason. *There must be an explanation. He was part of the Tree, he was born from the previous IT so maybe he was "overwritten" by the new IT and turned into wood. When the new IT got dispelled he turned into ashes



That is exactly the kind of outlook you DON'T want when writing a war arc.



> Tsunade was OLD AS FUCK, and not very strong being mainly a medic. Kakashi's generation never had a Hokage and Kakashi was BY FAR the strongest of his gen.



Onoki is far older and then doing fine, Danzo was far older and far weaker when he was made Hokage. And Kakashi was quite young and didn't lose anymore powers then he already had before being made Hokage when he passed it off too Naruto. Because Tsunade never intended for him to be anything other then an placeholder between her and Naruto. That's bad. If Kishimoto thought Kakashi deserves to be Hokage, he should have been made Hokage after Tsunade went into her coma. He pussied out of having actually depict that however.



> manga is far from ending. It just started. #700 is actually the first chapter of the sequel



This is not true.


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## Punished Kiba (Mar 18, 2015)

Nothing is going to change how bad the series ended; No Bullsh*t fillers, No Fanservice Movies and no retcon novels.

I've  99% lost all faith in the Naruto Franchise.

I could rant about this manga forever. That's how bad it is.
And it's not because I  invested alot of time into naruto, because I've also invested alot of time into One Piece too and I barely have any issues with that series.


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## shade0180 (Mar 18, 2015)

Naruto Fighto said:


> I will list all the reasons on why Kishimoto dropped the ball big time in his finale of "Naruto". This manga could have been somebody, it could have been a contender. Instead of a fucking bum, which it is, lets face it.



Yea, the series has a lot of potential.. 



> 1) Disappointing final villain(s) and the bad fights and resolutions that came out of it:
> 
> First of all, the main villain needs to be connected with somebody from the main cast to make it personal and secondly the final fight should be satisfying. No one from the main cast gave two shits about Madara, Kaguya or Zetsu.
> The only villain that was connected to the main cast was Tobi and he got shafted and shitted on.  The final fights lasted for 200 chapters where nothing but big explosions and asspulls was happening. Then came the sage of the 6 paths out of nowhere and gave away upgrades.
> ...



This isn't exclusive to Naruto. It's also pretty common in japan, Naruto is basically just following the trend with this...
This trend was pretty successful in fact in the 90's - 2000's even in current games... No, seriously ever played Final fantasy? Dragon quest? or Densetsu game.. 

Those game are on top of the charts and they used this...

Final villain no warning, or real connection to the story showing up just to fight as an end boss..

ff8 Ultimacia
ff9 Necron
DQ one of those demon lords because he is superior to the last one.
Densetsu - God tree suddenly being evil.. 




> 2) Nobody got a good treatment.
> 
> At the end, with so many characters, Kishimoto couldn't even give one character a normal character path where he develops, fights, wins and learns a lesson and changes for the better.
> 
> ...



Agreed. 

Yugao - had a potential but was forgotten
Anko - was also forgotten
Yamato - yea
K11 - Haven't really matured as shown in their dream nor in the ending
sauce - He really didn't grow up, he just became more selfish as the time passed, and Itachi had been helping him multiple time to get over it but nothing has change until naruto kicked his ass in the final match
Sakura - She wasn't even shown to surpass Tsunade.
Kakashi - Pretty much the same since part 1




> 3) Do you really give a shit about the characters at the end? I don't. Who cares about the rock village kage or Mei or former raikage? They were introduced in the last 10 percent of the entire manga. So I read panels with them like they are some important characters, I don't give a shit what happened with them. Meanwhile Neji and Lee get one panel. Kakashi got one panel that demonstrated what a fucking loser he still was. Lesson not learned.



Truthfully. I really don't, it would have been better if he concentrated with the establish character development instead of pulling new character out of his ass every arc to fill up the character base...



> 4) Lessons learned from Naruto manga?
> 
> It's ok to be a mass murderer, you can get away with it (Orochimaru for example) because justice is something baaaad in "Naruto".
> It's ok to kill an entire clan of people (Uchihas), including children, because they were baaaad people. It's not ok to question this because the people that did the massacre were "heroes". It's also not something important apparently because it doesn't even get mentioned in the final resolution.
> ...



Er I'm not commenting on this. Just going to say Killing is not always an option in shounen or some seinen. Also there are series that did great without really killing the villain or the bad guy. Sometimes there are bad guys that even turned good to support the hero and they have been successful.
I understand this reasoning, and I could see what kishi wanted to do.. the problem was Kishi's writing can't portray it properly. 

So it ended up as shit....


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## db84x (Mar 18, 2015)

I think Naruto isn't bad, it just wasted potential.  But I can't blame Kishi since long series manga in WSJ tend follow this pattern.


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## Revolution (Mar 20, 2015)

This is "heroic" and has been praised by Hashirama and Naruto.



Itachi the hero.  Danzo the brave.  *slow clap*


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## Punished Pathos (Mar 20, 2015)

Revolution said:


> This is "heroic" and has been praised by Hashirama and Naruto.
> 
> 
> 
> Itachi the hero.  Danzo the brave.  *slow clap*



The sheep would rather be coddled by their government.
Rebellion, revolution and liberation is seen as an evil thing. 
The fools will never realize that Uchiha Clan were in a corner.
They were robbed of dying with their pride.
Instead, Danzo issued Itachi to kill them before the clan even had a chance to visibly confront the Leaf's government with Insurrection.


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## Alkaid (Mar 20, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> The sheep would rather be coddled by their government.
> Rebellion, revolution and liberation is seen as an evil thing.
> The fools will never realize that Uchiha Clan were in a corner.
> They were robbed of dying with their pride.
> Instead, Danzo issued Itachi to kill them before the clan even had a chance to visibly confront the Leaf's government with Insurrection.



Did Itachi even like his clan?? It's been a long time since I've read the flashback panels, but for some reason I remember him actually having disdain for his clan as a whole because of their arrogance.


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## The Jeffrey (Mar 20, 2015)

Nice essay about why shit turned out to be shit.


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## Lucy75 (Mar 20, 2015)

I disagree entirely. The ending was great. I would have liked just abit more side character focus.


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## ADESpider24 (Mar 3, 2020)

I know it's late but everything you said is straight crazy. The ending is the worst ending in Anime history.


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