# Manga that fail... to ... win? We retain hope



## Grandmaster Kane (Jul 17, 2009)

What are some manga that start good but then quickly fail... only to later have a resurgence of unprecedented win? 

For example

One piece- Everything from alabasta to water 7 was intense fail in my opinion. But it set the ground work for what is happening now, which is most decidedly awesome. That means that hundreds of chapters of fail is excused for the new era of win that being ushered in.

Reborn- Starts ok, then progress into the vr arc which is amazing! Then in the future arc it is dragged down into the gutter only to be lifted once again with the last 8 or so chapters

That means there is still hope for Naruto and bleach 

Any other manga you know of do this?


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## Mider T (Jul 17, 2009)

Inuyasha is all.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jul 17, 2009)

Inuyasha wins in the end?

I was not aware of this


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## Mider T (Jul 17, 2009)

Inuyasha is the only one that genuinely deserves this.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 17, 2009)

Gantz. Fail.....WIN......FAAAAAAAAAAAILLLLL!!!!


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Jul 17, 2009)

How can someone call Jaya, Skypiea and even the Davy back fight arcs intense fail? not so good i can accept but intense fail?


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## Midus (Jul 17, 2009)

Power of the afro excuses all. 

Anyway, is Reborn really getting better? Stopped reading about halfway through the future arc.


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## Inugami (Jul 17, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> For example
> 
> One piece- Everything from alabasta to water 7 was intense fail in my opinion.



WTF you are going too far  !


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## Stroev (Jul 17, 2009)

G Kane doesn't know what he's talking about.

There are no opinions in One Piece.


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## Mider T (Jul 17, 2009)

He's quite right about One Piece, except it never got itself back on track.

Well until this last chapter.


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## Ennoea (Jul 17, 2009)

Reborn is an absolute disgrace, and still is.

Claymore has been in a rut for a while, its gotten much better lately.



> Everything from alabasta to water 7 was intense fail



Blasphemy, someone call the church elders


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## The Doctor (Jul 17, 2009)

Skypie is better written than the entirity of of Naruto and Bleach.

And Mider T, you have the worst opinions.


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## Superstars (Jul 17, 2009)

Mider T said:


> He's quite right about One Piece, except it never got itself back on track.
> 
> Well until this last chapter.



Thank you!!!

Someone who is truthful and not afraid to say it..One Piece has been crap for a while now until last chapter.


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## Eldritch (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't see how this last chapter was SO MUCH BETTER than the ones in Shabondy


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## Trick2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Bleach....

after the SS arc it fails...then Kubo brings out the TBTP flashbacks which equals win, then fails with dragged out and nonsense fodder fights, then so far the last 4 chapters have been wins so far...you get the idea


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## armorknight (Jul 18, 2009)

East Blue was the worst saga in one piece to be honest. Also, while one piece does have its lows, they aren't nearly as bad as those of naruto and bleach.

Naruto did redeem itself in the Pein-invasion arc, until the end anyways.

As for Bleach, we can only hope the Vaizards will somehow fix everything lol.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Naruto didn't redeem itself with Pain it just proven that everything wrong with the manga wasn't a temporary lapse of writers block, but working as intended according to kishi. 

One Piece ranges from boring to fun but never from really bad to really great. For example the thriller park arc was boring, had some fun chapters when it came down to sanji or zoro throwing down, but really wasn't anything foam from eyes because it was so awesome or so incurably bad. One Piece is mediocre never rising or falling just transitional from boring, to mildly entertaining, to fun read, only to go back to boring and repeat the cycle in a rinse, repeat type way. The last 3 arcs feel like filler arcs, not because of lack of obvious plot relevance but because the entirety of all 3 arcs could have been drawn in 10 chapters...


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## Supa Swag (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Gantz. Fail.....WIN......FAAAAAAAAAAAILLLLL!!!!



Definitely Gantz. And it's sad too because all Gantz needs to be entertaining is gore and tits. Not psycho babble bullshit and 800 pound women.


I'll go with Naruto as well but it's a lot more constant. It's literally a roller coaster. Look at the Pain arc. We go from the awesomeness of Killer Bee to Pain's boring invasion to the awesomeness of him blowing up Konoha and the beginning Naruto's fight with Pain to the fight getting boring and Hinata coming out of nowhere for pairing crap to Kyuubi nearly being unleashed and seeing Minato to the discussion with Minato/Naruto being underwhelming, the boring conclusion to Naruto/Pain, Nagato's COMA INDUCING flashback and finally the horrific resurrection. Now were ascending again with Team Samui and the Kage Summit.


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## kumabear (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> ^I was about to call you out on the bandwagon but then you said TBTP was good...so okay.
> 
> 
> 
> A manga needs more than good fights to make it a good manga.  One Piece has trouble combining revalations, action, and inspiring words in a single chapter.  They usually consist of wall-o-text chapter followed by an enlightenment chapter followed by a joke chapter then a fighting chapter.  Rinse, wash, repeat.



You thought Naruto Post-Timeskip was good, so i'm not suprised at this opinion. 

to TC: gantz tangz gantz gantzy gantzu


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## Mr. Stud Muffin (Jul 18, 2009)

The Vizards, Aizen's plan, Urahara/Isshin/Ryuuken, and the Royal Guard are the only things keeping me interested in Bleach. 

--------

Naruto...man...chit gets awesome and then fails epicly. Rather frustrating. 

--------

Urasawa mangas have spoiled me.


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## Eldritch (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> A manga needs more than good fights to make it a good manga.



Hahahahhahaahahaha





Bleach.



Mider T said:


> One Piece has trouble combining revalations, action, and inspiring words in a single chapter. They usually consist of wall-o-text chapter followed by an enlightenment chapter followed by a joke chapter then a fighting chapter.  Rinse, wash, repeat.



It can be dragged out at times but it's a called a formula that works. And I thought a person who reads "bakuman" so closely would know this. Unless you're just reading it for the romance


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## blue berry (Jul 18, 2009)

yugioh.  

gintama (manga version)  it just got really boring for me.


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## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> What are some manga that start good but then quickly fail... only to later have a resurgence of unprecedented win?



_The Big Three
HSDK
Hitman reborn
Hunter X Hunter
Fairy Tail

Etc. . .
_




Superstars said:


> Thank you!!!
> 
> Someone who is truthful and not afraid to say it..One Piece has been crap for a while now until last chapter.


_
I'd say it still is crap, never really recovered for me after the disaster that was amazon lily. . .ugh._


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## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

kumabear said:


> You thought Naruto Post-Timeskip was good, so i'm not suprised at this opinion.
> 
> to TC: gantz tangz gantz gantzy gantzu



What's that supposed to mean?  It still is good, and getting better.


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## $Naruto19$ (Jul 18, 2009)

One Piece.


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## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> Hahahahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What?  Bleach has fantastic artwork and good poetry.





> It can be dragged out at times but it's a called a formula that works. And I thought a person who reads "bakuman" so closely would know this. Unless you're just reading it for the romance



Bakuman is nothing like One Piece when it comes to storytelling, you are a poor writer if you think it does.


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## abcd (Jul 18, 2009)

ironically I loved one piece for its skypie arc.... 

@OP 
I would say histories greatest diciple kenichi... initialy it was good, then it went to boring, now its good again


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## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> This is pathetic
> 
> Acting like you were trolling and playing dumb
> 
> Get the hell out of here



You don't think Bleach has good artwork and poetry?


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## Inugami (Jul 18, 2009)

what's  wrong with you people.. its okay if you don't like One Piece but saying its crap is going too far.


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## Tempproxy (Jul 18, 2009)

Oxvial said:


> what's  wrong with you people.. its okay if you don't like One Piece but saying its crap is going too far.



Alas it seems its cool to hate OP these days........................noobs.


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## berserking_fury (Jul 18, 2009)

One Piece: ever since the end of Skypia it's been either terrible mediocre to just plain boring, but the last chapter does show some interesting promise.




The Doctor said:


> Skypie is better written than the entirity of of Naruto and Bleach.
> 
> *And Mider T, you have the worst opinions.*



 how can he or anyone have the worst opinion it's *his/theirs*. 
What constitutes as a bad opinion a post showing you don't want to lick the nut sack of Oda?


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## God Movement (Jul 18, 2009)

> One Piece: ever since the end of Skypia it's been either terrible mediocre to just plain boring, but the last chapter does show some interesting promise.



What the hell are you talking about, One Piece has hardly any shit moments.

It's your opinion anyway, I don't really know what kind of world your living in.


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## Lucaniel (Jul 18, 2009)

Bleach is picking up, never going to get to a very high level at this point, but it's picking up.

I retain hope for KHR, but mostly a "get this shit over with" hope.


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## Zorokiller (Jul 18, 2009)

most of them have been called already, only One Piece doesn't count.

the bandwagon hate going around for One Piece is just best to ignore, it makes the forum readable


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## Jugger (Jul 18, 2009)

88 Movement said:


> What the hell are you talking about, One Piece has hardly any shit moments.
> 
> It's your opinion anyway, I don't really know what kind of world your living in.



I dont understand where world you live if you say one piece has no shit moments lates arc hit the bottom it was just luffy beating fodder


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## WILD CARD (Jul 18, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _The Big Three
> HSDK
> Hitman reborn
> Hunter X Hunter
> ...


Amazon lily was mediocre for a One Piece arc but did you even read Impel Down or atleast Chapter 550?

Shabondy, Impel Down are my favorite arcs in One Piece already and chapter 550 of One Piece is already starting to make shabondy look like Naruto part 2.


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## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> You don't think Bleach has good artwork and poetry?



So you're nothing but a troll.


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## Eldritch (Jul 18, 2009)

No he was serious

He's just acting like he was trolling all along, which is pretty sad since he can't think of ways to refute arguments


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## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Jugger said:


> I dont understand where world you live if you say one piece has no shit moments lates arc hit the bottom it was just luffy beating fodder



Jugger do you know that you're a moron who can't even grasp the plot outline of a story arc? Making shit on the spot and generalizing it is rediciously stupid. There were barely any fights in this recent arc, and the battles against cannon fodder were minimum at best. Impel Down's theme was all about adventuring and exploring the different levels while trying to rescue Ace from the clutches of the WG. And due to that we met an interesting set of characters and got more background info.


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## WILD CARD (Jul 18, 2009)

Jugger said:


> I dont understand what world you live in if you say one piece has shit moments. The latest arc hit the ceiling and broke it in terms of quality and has win moments with every character especially Luffy in every chapter.


fixed for truth and for better grammar


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## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> No he was serious
> 
> He's just acting like he was trolling all along, which is pretty sad since he can't think of ways to refute arguments



That's pathetic.

But then again..... good fucking authentic poetry.


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## Eldritch (Jul 18, 2009)

kubos art has heart like my fart

I should become a rapper


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## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Kubo's art is impressive. I love his backgrounds and how he draws everything in detail.


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## Trick2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Razzzz said:


> That's pathetic.
> 
> But then again..... good fucking authentic poetry.



hey!!! the plot in bleach might have been lost for sometime now but I like the monologues that Kira, Yumichika, and Hisagi gave...

those monologues, The SS arc, and the TBTP arc shows that Kubo has the talent to write but it is in a really really really deep sleep in there somewhere...too bad he doesn't know where he is going with his series


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## RivFader (Jul 18, 2009)

I admit that Amazon Lily and Impel Down weren't really that good, but calling everything after Alabasta utter crap...


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## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Trick2 said:


> hey!!! the plot in bleach might have been lost for sometime now but I like the monologues that Kira, Yumichika, and Hisagi gave...
> 
> those monologues, The SS arc, and the TBTP arc shows that Kubo has the talent to write but it is in a really really really deep sleep in there somewhere...too bad he doesn't know where he is going with his series



Yumichika's little speech was pathetic. 'I'd rather die than to release my Shikai in public''. The rest was cool, especially Kira's conviction of what it is to be a warrior. 

And Kubo has potential as a writter, but sadly he doesn't use it anymore.


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## Rokudaime (Jul 18, 2009)

One Piece as well to me.

I don't enjoy most of the OP arc , some of them are semi-OK but I sincerely did enjoy the Captain Kizaru arc (forgot the island name) , Amazon Lily arc and the latest arc.

Probably because I don't have to see those overused/hideous face expression from other Straw Hat crew....


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## berserking_fury (Jul 18, 2009)

88 Movement said:


> What the hell are you talking about, One Piece has hardly any *shit moments*.
> 
> It's your opinion anyway, I don't really know what kind of world your living in.



If you can't argue your point that's fine, but don't put words into my mouth.


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## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

WILD CARD said:


> Amazon lily was mediocre for a One Piece arc but did you even read Impel Down or atleast Chapter 550?



_I'm up to date on all the current chapters, it still blows._


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## Crocodile (Jul 18, 2009)

Yeah,I've seen alot of One Piece hate going around.
You can ignore Jugger atleast,he'll bash One Piece  whenever he gets the chance and $Naruto19$ isn't any better,thinking Fairy Tail is better 

And whats all this bull shit about One Piece being crap from Alabasta to Enies Lobby?
Sure the Davy back Fight felt like filler but it probably was filler for Oda while he was getting Water 7's and Enies Lobby's plots down,atleast he didn't go on hiatus.

What i've gotten from this forum is that you either love Skypiea or hate it but to call it crap is just bashing.I personally loved it and the Norland and Calgara flashback was epic,The ending was also great where you saw Luffy's sillouette through the clouds.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Oh yeah,about One Piece having no 'Great revelations',what the hell are you smoking?
In the previous chapter we found out Ace was Rogers sun.We've been introduced to Akainu,Kizaru,Hancock,Jinbei(Whos' been hyped since East Blue) and the 11 Supernova's,Silver's Rayleigh (The Pirate kings first mate).
Blackbeard has stormed Impel Down and is about to do something within the up-coming hours that will "Shake the world" and theres about to be a freakin' war at Marinford.All of this has happened within the past 50 chapters!




So yeah,stop hating One Piece because you think it's cool to do so.That's just petty
Just because it isn't full of your 'Generic loner' characters and people don't fire big shiny beams every chapter doesn't mean it's shit.

I know i'm probably ranting,but when your calling something shit because it's cool to do so is just pathetic 

EDIT:Rokudaime,what the hell are you on about "Over-used faces"?
All the people in your set look exactly the same


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## Lucaniel (Jul 18, 2009)

Dammit, Croc, use spoiler tags.


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## Ennoea (Jul 18, 2009)

> One Piece: ever since the end of Skypia it's been either terrible mediocre to just plain boring, but the last chapter does show some interesting promise.



Trolling at its worst. Fail.


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## Maximo (Jul 18, 2009)

Gantz was so great until the point Kurono dies - since then its just a great art without awesomeness so in other words it sucks now.


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## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

RivFader said:


> calling everything after Alabasta utter crap...



_Gonna have to second this: Sky Island and CP9 saga's are One Piece at it's best IMO. _


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Skypedia had a good villian, the last good villian one piece had. The Eneis Lobby stuff didn't really get interesting till we realized that luffy was evolving. The whole luffy vs fodder, fodder vs fodder shit stopped being interesting 200 chapters ago. Unfortunately impel down, amazon arc, and rookie arc can be skipped altogether with each arc borrowing from the worst one piece storytelling conventions instead of elevating the series, you can skip the majority of those chapters, fuck you can skip every single chapter post Enies Lobby and _still_ be able to enjoy and understand the lastest arc, _that's how much filler oda written into one piece_. Hopefully the Whitebeard vs Marines would be interesting even though the fun stuff will probably be at the very tail end of the arc like it was in Enies Lobby. 

Bleach may reach the point where it is cool again. But i doubt it will redeem itself with the vizards. For example i didn't need a vizards vs fodder chapter. 

Naruto....someone earlier stated that the hokage summit might redeem the manga. My hopes are below low, if this was part one kishi then this would be quite interesting, but part 2 kishi has no idea how to make credible side characters. The fucking sand/sound invasion was 300 times more interesting then the Pain invasion, I called bullshit out loud when the_* entirety*_ of konoha was starring in awe as Naurto fought Pain alone... i found that irredeemable buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllllllllllllshit. The only thing stopping me from considering naruto or bleach for that matter a tier 4 manga is part 1 and my patience is running thin.

Sadly the more I read veritas, the manga with 0 likeable characters, the more I get the feeling that it is better then naruto, bleach, and one piece.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> Trolling at its worst. Fail.



I didn't know telling the truth is trolling. Oh yeah the Ace is Gold Roggers son rev wasn't as interesting as it sounds, i mean honestly just being apart of white beards crew is enough for an public execution with some pride crushing humilition thrown in for good measure...which is already happening anyway... being gold roggers son after the fact that you already grown up to be a pirate anyway is quite weak. This would be much more interesting and hence more cruel if they done this to ace when he was 4...


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## Ennoea (Jul 18, 2009)

^Im not on the bandwagon thats claiming OP has turned epic all of a sudden with this revelation, honestly Im alittle hesitant about it. 



> I didn't know telling the truth is trolling.



If the guy wasn't a Narutard.


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## Crocodile (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Skypedia had a good villian, the last good villian one piece had. The Eneis Lobby stuff didn't really get interesting till we realized that luffy was evolving. The whole luffy vs fodder, fodder vs fodder shit stopped being interesting 200 chapters ago. Unfortunately impel down, amazon arc, and rookie arc can be skipped altogether with each arc borrowing from the worst one piece storytelling conventions instead of elevating the series, you can skip the majority of those chapters, fuck you can skip every single chapter post Enies Lobby and _still_ be able to enjoy and understand the lastest arc, _that's how much filler oda written into one piece_. Hopefully the Whitebeard vs Marines would be interesting even though the fun stuff will probably be at the very tail end of the arc like it was in Enies Lobby.



I'm sorry,but this just too retarded to ignore.
How the hell could you know what the hells happening in the current chapter without reading past arcs?


*Spoiler*: __ 



First of all,you'd have no idea why Ace is up on the execution platform and how the WG captured him.
You wouldn't know how Blackbeard became a Shichibukai and who the hell Jinbei and Hancock are.

About the missing "Rookie arc",wich is refered to as the 'Saboady Archipelago arc',is just beyond retardable.
*WE ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO SEE THE SUPERNOVAS AGAIN*.
Oda gave them all unique powers yet to be explored,he made Luffy,Law and Kidd promise to meet up in the New World and has introduced them as soon-to-be allies or antagonists.

Plus,by not reading the Saboady arc you'd have no idea why the Mugiwara's are seperated and who Rayleigh and Shakky are and how the Mugiwara's will get to Fishman Island.

With Amazon Lily,You wouldn't know why Hancock "loves" Luffy,wich is obviously going to play a part in the future.


There are a ton of more stuff you wouldn't understand if you skipped all arcs from Enies Lobby,it's just unbelievable you actually thought that


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## Trick2 (Jul 18, 2009)

I just want to add a few stuff:


*Spoiler*: __ 



*Shiryuu joining BB 
*Luffy's escape party that consists of people like Crocodile, Jimbei, and one of Dragon's officers who happens to be the ruler of the island that Sanji was sent off to. 
*Shanks confronting Kaidou 
*Zoro's current state and being stuck in the same island with Perona
*Brooke




I think the viable fillers would be: The Immortals arc in Naruto and the months of side character fights in bleach...


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> I'm sorry,but this just too retarded to ignore.
> How the hell could you know what the hells happening in the current chapter without reading past arcs?
> 
> 
> ...



Actual your low reading comprehension is amazing. For one we already knew that Black Beard beat Ace and was viaing for position in the shikbakua _Ace losing to Black Beard would have ended badly for him anyway._ Hancock love for Luffy was a 1 page explanation at best, if you consider a one sided crush needing an entire arc to explain then you my friend are retarded. The rookies were nobody, i didn't need to see 20 different fruit users all spouting one liners if the only time i'm going to see them is a 100 chapters from now. Again i learned little, the only "real" thing that happened is the breaking up of the straw hats which oda took 3 chapters to do.


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## Ennoea (Jul 18, 2009)

I think the Shanbody arc was really there to see how WG is exerting its power and its affects on people. Also Shanbody was there to explain the relationship between Fishmen and people so its not completely irrelevant. Thriller Bark other than Kuma I found an annoyance, Amazon lilly wasn't too long so it was okay.


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## Crocodile (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm going to stop with long ass replies as I have a life to get back to.
First of all,I apologize for miss-reading your post.I read it as 'Pre-Enies Lobby' not 'Post-Enies Lobby'.So my reason for Ace being captured is void.

On the other hand,Your really grasping for straws.
First,we wouldn't know who Brook was and his history.We wouldn't know why Zoro was severly injured.Amazon Lily was more about just 'LOL HANCOCK LOVES LUFFY',Oda introduced another Island into his world,in which we got to explore.After all this is a *ADVENTURE* manga and you should probably stop reading it if all you want is epic fights every chapter.

My other reasons,as well as Trick2's reasons,stand strong.
And if i'm correct,the Strawhat seperation took *1* chapter.
If it was Kishi or Kubo,they would most likely speperate one character per chapter.


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## Jugger (Jul 18, 2009)

One piece just doing what dragon ball did its nothing new ace being roger son is like trunks being vegeta son.


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## Inugami (Jul 18, 2009)

meh the thread now is just a bunch of trolling about One Piece next time be careful with what you post G.Kane


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## Grandmaster Kane (Jul 18, 2009)

I love how the thread gets de-railed by people missing the entire point of the thread

then a 2009 member warns ME to watch what a post


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## Trick2 (Jul 18, 2009)

well we pretty much established that Naruto and Bleach are the best answers since they always go from fail to mediocre.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> I'm going to stop with long ass replies as I have a life to get back to.
> First of all,I apologize for miss-reading your post.I read it as 'Pre-Enies Lobby' not 'Post-Enies Lobby'.So my reason for Ace being captured is void.
> 
> On the other hand,Your really grasping for straws.
> ...



I'm sorry but Brook is fodder, the amazon island was fail, and Zoro being injured was simply there to tell us that "ZOMG ZORO CARES FOR LUFFY" yeah like I didn't know that 200 chapters ago...the separation counting the set up took 3 chapters. And besides when one piece version of epic fighting is god vs mangy kitten I'd rather have oda write a semi decent story which he hasn't for a long time now. Managing to write slightly better then 2 border line tier 4 manga doesn't make you tier 1.


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## Crocodile (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> I'm sorry but Brook is fodder


And that's where I stop replying to you.


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## Trick2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> I'm sorry but Brook is fodder



wow...just wow...


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Maybe if he managed to win back his own shadow, you may have a point, but he didn't so he fails. Usopp finally has someone he is better then.


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## Devil King Sanji (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Maybe if he managed to win back his own shadow, you may have a point, but he didn't so he fails. Usopp finally has someone he is better then.


 
Successful Troll is Successful.


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## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Managing to write slightly better then 2 border line tier 4 manga doesn't make you tier 1.



_Understatement of the year._



Wuzzman said:


> Maybe if he managed to win back his own shadow, you may have a point, but he didn't so he fails.



_Measuring a characters success by his power level are we or am I just mistaken? I feel Brooke is overrated, but I don't know about him being fail. _


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Veritas uses better plot devices then one piece.......


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## Devil King Sanji (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Veritas uses better plot devices then one piece.......


 
^ Troll is trying to exceed expectations...


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _Measuring a characters success by his power level are we or am I just mistaken? I feel Brooke is overrated, but I don't know about him being fail. _


I think a muscian as far as role in a pirate crew...i'm going to pretend one piece is still about pirates for a moment...is a bit meh. Maybe if he was some barb type character, but his role for this ship is small. Same with Usopp, the whole sharp shooter thing is barely significant and nami has him beat on strategy. There is franky who is extremely important for the ship so his subpar role in combat is ok since he is the mechanic. Or chopper who again doesn't need to be on sanji or zoro level but being the team medic is extremely important. though considering the cure for 99% of illness is one piece is bandages and will power I'm starting to rethink how useful my talking reindeer really is.


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## Quelsatron (Jul 18, 2009)

Always angry all the time


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## C-Moon (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:
			
		

> Usopp finally has someone he is better then.



Didn't Oda say he'd always be the weakest?


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## Abigail (Jul 18, 2009)

Quelsatron said:


> Always angry all the time



Yet you're right.

How does wasting four more years of your life on an internet forum make you better?

I would think it would be the opposite.


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## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Not when your waving your e-penis.


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## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> No he was serious
> 
> He's just acting like he was trolling all along, which is pretty sad since he can't think of ways to refute arguments



So I'm trolling if I say Bleach has excellent poetry and artwork?  You think Oda's art is better than Kubo's?





Jugger said:


> One piece just doing what dragon ball did its nothing new ace being roger son is like trunks being vegeta son.



This is nothing at all like that.


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## mystictrunks (Jul 18, 2009)

Naruto. It's only good when Naruto stops being a bitch and turns into Young Uzi.


Everything involving Skypiea in One Piece was ass cheeks to me.

That weird period in Dragon Ball when Gotenks gets introduced was pretty bad until Gohan showed up again then it became one of the best parts in the manga.


----------



## The Imp (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> So I'm trolling if I say Bleach has excellent poetry and artwork?  You think Oda's art is better than Kubo's?



Bleach doesn't have excellent poetry and artwork. Bleach has very little dialogue as it is and more than half of it is simply bad. The art is by no means excellent. It's decent. 

You may like Kubo's art more than Oda's but you can tell Oda puts a lot more work and a lot more detail into his artwork than Kubo.


----------



## The Doctor (Jul 18, 2009)

He's trolling, kurono.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

Eldritch Gall said:


> You suck at trolling
> 
> Go back to the plaza
> 
> Don't you have a little homo section dedicated to yourself



No retort?  I take that as a concession. 



kurono76767 said:


> Bleach doesn't have excellent poetry and artwork. Bleach has very little dialogue as it is and more than half of it is simply bad. The art is by no means excellent. It's decent.
> 
> You may like Kubo's art more than Oda's but you can tell Oda puts a lot more work and a lot more detail into his artwork than Kubo.



No it has plenty of dialouge, just not during fights, which is one thing I enjoy about it (No Yu-Gi-Oh explanation of moves, showing not telling).

You're right though, it's art is excellent for a Shounen Jump series where drafts are due once a week.  It's decent of all manga though.

Clusterfucks of people splattered all over the page?  I Oda his outrageous designs but that doesn't really take the talent that drawing realistic people does.


----------



## The Imp (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> No retort?  I take that as a concession.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More than half the manga is simply fighting and a lot of these fights fucking suck. You need some explanation for things or it doesn't make sense. 

There is nothing special about bleach's art. He has no backgrounds, wastes a lot of pages and panels. In the last 3 chapters Kubo's had 4 spreads of the Vizards posing. It isn't forwarding the plot at all and it isn't very dramatic anymore. It's simply a waste of space and time.

Doesn't Kubo have assistants? Well he sure isn't putting them to good use.

Oda has some originality to his work. He has a variety of designs. His designs are more memorable. Sure you may not like his style but at the very least you can say it is unique. 

You can sure as hell tell that it is more detailed and that Oda uses his pages a lot wiser than Kubo does. 

Bleach is half-assed and you know it. One Piece isn't my favourite manga by far but anybody can tell that it is miles ahead of mediocre garbage like Bleach.

You're doing a  piss poor job of trolling so you should stop or stfu.


----------



## Inugami (Jul 18, 2009)

kurono

don't waste time with Mider T and lets this thread die .


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

No one can resist the urge to wank defend one piece.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Clusterfucks of people splattered all over the page?  I Oda his outrageous designs but *that doesn't really take the talent that drawing realistic people does.*


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> You think Oda's art is better than Kubo's?

















Why yes, yes i do


----------



## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> More than half the manga is simply fighting and a lot of these fights fucking suck. You need some explanation for things or it doesn't make sense.
> 
> There is nothing special about bleach's art. He has no backgrounds, wastes a lot of pages and panels. In the last 3 chapters Kubo's had 4 spreads of the Vizards posing. It isn't forwarding the plot at all and it isn't very dramatic anymore. It's simply a waste of space and time.
> 
> ...



If the Vizard's arrival wasn't dramatic then the mood didn't come off to you the correct way.

I'm not gonna lie, Oda concentrates on backgrounds and does a good job with them, but is it better than Bleach characters?  No.

Oda works harder yes.

Bleach isn't half-assed, I've yet to come across a decent argument supporting this notion.


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

_I feel Oda is a by far better cartoonist than Kubo. Not even comparable if you ask me._


----------



## Ennoea (Jul 18, 2009)

> Veritas uses better plot devices then one piece..



Veritas has 40 chapters, when it reaches 500 chaps and still retains it quality then use it as a comparison.


----------



## Abigail (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> If the Vizard's arrival wasn't dramatic then the mood didn't come off to you the correct way.
> 
> I'm not gonna lie, Oda concentrates on backgrounds and does a good job with them, but is it better than Bleach characters?  No.
> 
> ...



He never said the Vaizard's arrival wasn't dramatic.

He said that four spreads of them just posing killed it.


----------



## The Imp (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> If the Vizard's arrival wasn't dramatic then the mood didn't come off to you the correct way.
> 
> I'm not gonna lie, Oda concentrates on backgrounds and does a good job with them, but is it better than Bleach characters?  No.
> 
> ...



The arrival of the vizards was dramatic at first but the numerous spreads are really killing it for me. 

*Spoiler*: __ 











Why are you comparing backgrounds to character designs?

Oda has better backgrounds than Kubo, and his character designs are more unique and fresh in comparison to Kubo's imo.

The HM arc is pretty much a copy of the SS arc.  He doesn't seem to plan that far ahead as seen with the yammy twist. He gives power ups on many occasions some of which are completely ridiculous ( i.e. Kenpachi vs Espada #5, Ichigo vs Grimmjow). His pacing is terrible, has very little content per chapter and he drags a lot of things out.

One Piece also has its fair share of power ups but atleast Oda gives a plausible explanation and many of Luffy's power ups are one timers. The only power up that really came out of no where and was Gears but even that had a decent explanation.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> Veritas has 40 chapters, when it reaches 500 chaps and still retains it quality then use it as a comparison.



You mean staying medicore?


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> He gives power ups on many occasions some of which are completely ridiculous ( i.e. Kenpachi vs Espada #5,
> 
> Gears but even that had a decent explanation.


_
I really don't see how Kenpaichi's Kendo was any worse than any of the power ups in One Pieces later chapters. Unless we are talking about Ichigo, but that's the staple of the character._


----------



## armorknight (Jul 18, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _
> I really don't see how Kenpaichi's Kendo was any worse than any of the power ups in One Pieces later chapters. Unless we are talking about Ichigo, but that's the staple of the character._



Oh come on. He beat noitra by using two fucking hands. It was almost as bad as how rukia beat no. 9. I'll admit the candle wax luffy in impel down was far-fetched, but it was just used to buy time and also had a comedic aspect. Nightmare luffy and gear 2+3 were awesome though.


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

armorknight said:


> Oh come on. He beat noitra by using two fucking hands.



_He beat Nnoitra by increasing the power behind his swings by using two hands and breaking Nnoitra's Hierro. How does that break someones suspension of disbelief, but Zoro growing extra body parts with no explanation to beat Kaku in EL gets leeway? _


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

Nightmare luffy was just random. However gear 2+3 was indeed seizure inducing awesome. Kenpachi not actually powering up was actually cool. It wasn't like he was getting dominated, all he really needed to do was try something new. Ichigo's powerup is blatant wankery. Oh and Kenpachi 2 handed "power up" vs Zoro "i ran out of barely believable techniques so I'm just going to grow extra body parts + swords"...yeah Kenpachi wins...


----------



## The Imp (Jul 18, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _
> I really don't see how Kenpaichi's Kendo was any worse than any of the power ups in One Pieces later chapters. Unless we are talking about Ichigo, but that's the staple of the character._



They get decent explanations and some only one time. When Luffy faced Crocodile, his power up made sense and it really only worked on Crocodile. Same with Enel, Luffy had the perfect counter. When Luffy fought Moria he got  a pretty big power up but it only worked once and Luffy had the help of many other people. 

Gears came out of no where like I said but it's explanation was passable. Actually now Haki comes to mind. That was a pretty big power up but it was foreshadowed a couple of times in past arcs.

When Ichigo fought Grimmjow his mask lasted a hell of a long time when it shouldn't have. The most famed power up being Orihime telling Ichigo to win or something like that and then Ichigo gets a massive power up. 

Kenpachi's power up was plain stupid. Sure using 2 hands should make you stronger but it shouldn't make you strong enough to do what Kenpachi did to that espada. 

There is also a big lack of consistency that makes the power levels all over the place. That's probably the biggest complaint with Hitsugaya vs Hallibel so far.

One Piece has it's fair share of power ups but they are better handled than Bleach power ups.


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 18, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> Sure using 2 hands should make you stronger but it shouldn't make you strong enough to do what Kenpachi did to that espada.



_
We know Kenpaichi unpatched is very strong. So, strong infact that he can cleave large structures in half one handed. Why would it be a jump for him to do more damage with Two hands?
_




kurono76767 said:


> Kenpachi's power up was plain stupid.


_
Versus Zoro's magic Asura?_


----------



## Razzzz (Jul 18, 2009)

Mider T said:


> No retort?  I take that as a concession.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The previous transition chapter where the Vizard's arrival became prominent didn't had much dialogue, in fact reading it in less than a minute doesn't sound ludicrous at all.

Furthermore, the content Oda puts into a chapter doesn't seem jumbled and confusing. Everything is very straight-forward and clear. You're just making shit up to refute an argument. 

And why the hell are you bitching about realistic drawings in a fucking comic book? That's very inane and hilarious. Not to mention Bleach art isn't that realistic when it also features anthromorphic creatures, deformed characters and characters lacking in any kind of distinctive ethnicity. Bleach's art doesn't deviate from the standardized anime and manga style.


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Actual your low reading comprehension is amazing. For one we already knew that Black Beard beat Ace and was viaing for position in the shikbakua _Ace losing to Black Beard would have ended badly for him anyway._ Hancock love for Luffy was a 1 page explanation at best, if you consider a one sided crush needing an entire arc to explain then you my friend are retarded. The rookies were nobody, i didn't need to see 20 different fruit users all spouting one liners if the only time i'm going to see them is a 100 chapters from now. Again i learned little, the only "real" thing that happened is the breaking up of the straw hats which oda took 3 chapters to do.



Because One Piece haters love to skip read the manga "cough" jugger "cough"

I'll put a veeeery detailed explanation as to why skipping the last 2 arcs are ridiculous


*Spoiler*: __ 



-Black Beard vs. Ace was post Enies Lobby and was right before Thriller Bark (so yes if you somehow stopped before the strawhats escaped from Garp then you would miss the most important part of this saga)
-Introduction of the slave trade(Doflamingo's underworld empire which will be very important in the new world)
-The new world
-Introduction to Vegapunk and the pacifista
-Franky reaching Vegapunk's birthplace
-Announcing Ace's execution
-Introduction to Kuma the tyrant
-Introduction of Rayleigh(lol if you can somehow prove that the first mate of the pirate king is not important later on)
-The Tenryuubito
-Introduction of another admiral(a near the end of the series character)
-Introduction to the son of the admiral
-Introduction of the supernovas(They will be important later on, I don't why you are so impatient that you want to know everybody's  backstory the next chapter, I can guarantee you all of them would reveal themselves fully soon and some would even be crucial to the plot)
-Impel Down (How would fans feel if the writer ignores one of the three major organizations of the world government like it never existed)
-The 2 revolutionaries in Impel Down
-The okama queen
-Dragon and Ivankov as revolutionaries
-The sunny pirates
-Fisher Tiger
-Merman Island
-Jimbei
-Why the mermen respect Whitebeard
-Why mermen are considered slaves
-mermen's relationship with humans
-Jimbei's relationship with Ace(why is Jimbei saving him)
-The symbol on Boa's back
-Blackbeard recruiting Shiryuu
-Background info on Shiryuu
-why Crocodile, 2 revolutionaries, Buggy, a bunch of okama, 1, 3, and a bunch of prisoners helping Luffy
-Introduction to haki
-where the strawhats are




I am pretty sure all that I have mentioned will be mentioned in the later arcs
Now tell me you can continue reading the later arcs without having good background knowledge of all of this.


----------



## The Doctor (Jul 18, 2009)

Skipping OP arcs is stupid at very least. Especially because Oda keeps bringing old characters back into the story.


----------



## Dick Dastardly (Jul 18, 2009)

How do people not like Skypiea?


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> I didn't know telling the truth is trolling. Oh yeah the Ace is Gold Roggers son rev wasn't as interesting as it sounds, i mean honestly just being apart of white beards crew is enough for an public execution with some pride crushing humilition thrown in for good measure...which is already happening anyway... being gold roggers son after the fact that you already grown up to be a pirate anyway is quite weak. *This would be much more interesting and hence more cruel if they done this to ace when he was 4...*



Because the manga would be so much cooler and interesting if the Whitebeard war saga never happened and will be instead about an innocent 4 year old boy going emo on the execution platform about why he is born to the wrong father with shitty emo music to complement the the sadness of the situation.

(Sengoku stated that they were already hunting down the son of Gol d. Roger once he died so we can assume that even if he was  a newly born baby that they would still execute him)


----------



## Ennoea (Jul 18, 2009)

> How do people not like Skypiea?



It was way longer than it should have been, the Enel fight lasted forever.


----------



## The Imp (Jul 18, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> It was way longer than it should have been, the Enel fight lasted forever.



and it didn't contribute much to the overall plot until the end with the gol d roger revelation. 

it felt like a filler arc even though it wasn't. i don't really hate it but it isn't really one of my favourite arcs.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 18, 2009)

WILD CARD said:


> Because One Piece haters love to skip read the manga "cough" jugger "cough"
> 
> I'll put a veeeery detailed explanation as to why skipping the last 2 arcs are ridiculous
> 
> ...



Your wall of "Here is Johnny" moments fail to impress me. You haven't mentioned one thing that I actually need to know to enjoy the next 10 chapters or even the next 100 chapters if One Piece is taking its usual direction. I'm sorry but back tracking is usually reserved for great manga, not saturday morning chuckle while your on the toilet manga. Even veritas in 40 chapters managed to convince me to back track it, something that One Piece has failed to do in 500. Your replying to me as if One Piece is as complicated as Lost... 

The whole Whitebeard vs Marines should have happened in the beginning of the manga. Makes no sense for Whitebeard to attack the Marine HQ because his subordinate was dumb enough to get captured even when explicitly warned not to take the course of action that got him into the situation in the first place. Its hot headed "my nakama going to DIE!!!!" type of decision making not fit for a leader of any significant statue let alone a leader of a group of pirates...but i'll continue to pretend one piece is about pirates. I don't know how the marines are credible fighting force with 500 chapters worth of fodder status being associated with 99.99% of its fighting force. I don't think I will care about this arc till the shikibaka or an admiral decides to fight. I expect good things from Garp, and starting to get quite annoyed that Smoker hasn't been spotted yet.


----------



## Mickey Mouse (Jul 18, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> More than half the manga is simply fighting and a lot of these fights fucking suck. You need some explanation for things or it doesn't make sense.
> 
> There is nothing special about bleach's art. He has no backgrounds, wastes a lot of pages and panels. *In the last 3 chapters Kubo's had 4 spreads of the Vizards posing*. It isn't forwarding the plot at all and it isn't very dramatic anymore. It's simply a waste of space and time.
> 
> ...



 No idea how much that frustrated me. Especially the latest one...the destruction of a bunch of Gillians and people like Hitsugaya actually thinking that is impressive...man I hope this up coming one has more substance. If shinji gets owned then please make it by multiple moves for multiple pages...not one move different reactions the whole chapter...please


----------



## KidTony (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> You mean staying medicore?



A matter of opinion.
------------------------------


I love OP. I'm heavily biased towards it, yet i don't mind people disliking it or having less than positive views towards it. What really bothers me though, as much as anything else, is a Naruto or Bleach fan bashing OP....I find that the epitome of bullshit.


----------



## Supa Swag (Jul 18, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> and starting to get quite annoyed that Smoker hasn't been spotted yet.


----------



## Inugami (Jul 18, 2009)

Thread that fail... to ... win? We retain hope


----------



## Mider T (Jul 18, 2009)

Razzzz said:


> The previous transition chapter where the Vizard's arrival became prominent didn't had much dialogue, in fact reading it in less than a minute doesn't sound ludicrous at all.



For Dramatic Effect - check.
Coolness - Check.
Get the job done? - check



> Furthermore, the content Oda puts into a chapter doesn't seem jumbled and confusing. Everything is very straight-forward and clear. You're just making shit up to refute an argument.



I disagree, humor on one page followed seriousness on the next.  This past Amazon Island was a perfect example of it.



> And why the hell are you bitching about realistic drawings in a fucking comic book? That's very inane and hilarious. Not to mention Bleach art isn't that realistic when it also features anthromorphic creatures, deformed characters and characters lacking in any kind of distinctive ethnicity. Bleach's art doesn't deviate from the standardized anime and manga style.



It's still a work of art.  I like to watch something with nice drawings, is that too much to ask?  Can I not criticize the arts?  These creatures have commendable detail, take Allon for example.  Or characters - Tousen's hair.

What deformed creature are you talking about?


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> What?  Bleach has fantastic artwork and good poetry.



Fantastic *character* artwork, yes. Background art, no. One Piece stomps Bleach in that department. I don't get where the good poetry comes, though. Bleach has minimal dialogues at best.  



88 Movement said:


> What the hell are you talking about, One Piece has hardly any shit moments.
> 
> It's your opinion anyway, I don't really know what kind of world your living in.



They're living in a world of fail, or complete denial.



> The whole Whitebeard vs Marines should have happened in the beginning of the manga. Makes no sense for Whitebeard to attack the Marine HQ because his subordinate was dumb enough to get captured even when explicitly warned not to take the course of action that got him into the situation in the first place. Its hot headed "my nakama going to DIE!!!!" type of decision making not fit for a leader of any significant statue let alone a leader of a group of pirates...but i'll continue to pretend one piece is about pirates. I don't know how the marines are credible fighting force with 500 chapters worth of fodder status being associated with 99.99% of its fighting force. I don't think I will care about this arc till the shikibaka or an admiral decides to fight. I expect good things from Garp, and starting to get quite annoyed that Smoker hasn't been spotted yet.



LOLWIN.


----------



## Hiruzen (Jul 19, 2009)

Fairy Tail was at its peak in the Phantom Lord Arc. Then along came Gerard


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

BadassTaisouIsBadass said:


> Fantastic *character* artwork, yes. Background art, no. One Piece stomps Bleach in that department. I don't get where the good poetry comes, though. Bleach has minimal dialogues at best.



It doesn't stomp it though there is more detail.  Probably because Bleach's are so far and in between (Sereitei and Karakura Town are the only locations)

Read the covers or the early chapters.


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> It doesn't stomp it though there is more *detail*.



That's what stomps Bleach's, even in the covers or early chapters. Details. Oda's artwork has a humongous amount of details that it makes it fun to read and find Easter eggs (specifically Pandaman).


----------



## Devil King Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _I really don't see how Kenpaichi's Kendo was any worse than any of the power ups in One Pieces later chapters. Unless we are talking about Ichigo, but that's the staple of the character._


 
This thread is starting to attract moar Trolls.


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Blood Dawn said:


> This thread is starting to attract moar Trolls.



Did you know that TROLLS are the missing link in the evolution theory? That's the main reason why they can't identify good from bad or vice versa since they're brains are underdeveloped (and doesn't really develop at all).


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

BadassTaisouIsBadass said:


> That's what stomps Bleach's, even in the covers or early chapters. Details. Oda's artwork has a humongous amount of details that it makes it fun to read and find Easter eggs (specifically Pandaman).



I don't think you understand the difference between mildly surpasses and stomps.  Bleach is no slacker either when it comes to background detail.


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 19, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Your wall of "Here is Johnny" moments fail to impress me. You haven't mentioned one thing that I actually need to know to enjoy the next 10 chapters or even the next 100 chapters if One Piece is taking its usual direction. I'm sorry but back tracking is usually reserved for great manga, not saturday morning chuckle while your on the toilet manga. Even veritas in 40 chapters managed to convince me to back track it, something that One Piece has failed to do in 500. Your replying to me as if One Piece is as complicated as Lost...
> 
> The whole Whitebeard vs Marines should have happened in the beginning of the manga. Makes no sense for Whitebeard to attack the Marine HQ because his subordinate was dumb enough to get captured even when explicitly warned not to take the course of action that got him into the situation in the first place. Its hot headed "my nakama going to DIE!!!!" type of decision making not fit for a leader of any significant statue let alone a leader of a group of pirates...but i'll continue to pretend one piece is about pirates. I don't know how the marines are credible fighting force with 500 chapters worth of fodder status being associated with 99.99% of its fighting force. I don't think I will care about this arc till the shikibaka or an admiral decides to fight. I expect good things from Garp, and starting to get quite annoyed that Smoker hasn't been spotted yet.



wat?
100 chapters is most we are most likely going to be in the mermen arc so you are saying the sunny pirates, Jinbei, Fisher Tiger, the slave trade, Hachi, and the Mermen and human conflict.

and I quote again from my last post *"Are you so impatient that you cannot wait for everything to be resolved? Everything in my last post that happened in sabaody and impel down will be elaborated, explained, and resolved later.*

Also this is pure opinion but you did not find
Rayleigh
11 supernovas(potentially good characters)
Kizaru
Sentomaru
Vegapunk
Fisher Tiger
Jimbei
Magellan
Hannybal
Shiryuu
Crocodile again
mr. 2 again
mr. 3 again
Buggy again
Tenryuubito
Gecko Moria
Kuma
Impel Down
sabaody archipelago


interesting 

I want to know what in early One Piece had you interested 



> One Piece is taking its usual direction. I'm sorry but back tracking is usually reserved for great manga, not saturday morning chuckle while your on the toilet manga.


And that is why you hate One Piece, you think its only a toilet comedy .
Excuse my rudeness but *LEARN TO READ*. What annoys me about One Piece haters is that *the very reason they hate One Piece is not what it lacks but what it actually has if you actually READ IT.*



> Whitebeard to attack the Marine HQ because his subordinate was dumb enough to get captured even when explicitly warned not to take the course of action that got him into the situation in the first place.


1) White Beard treats his men especially his division commanders as his sons
2) They *publicly announced* his execution, that is insulting his name and honor if they push through with the execution
3) Even if Ace is safe as Garp says "the government has angered the ruler of the seas", he will destroy the government just for the sake of it
4) How do you know he is a bad leader? He definitely has something in store for him to rescue Ace.



> I don't know how the marines are credible fighting force with 500 chapters worth of fodder status being associated with 99.99% of its fighting force.


Naruto has fodder, Bleach has fodder get used to it.


----------



## Devil King Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> I don't think you understand the difference between mildly surpasses and stomps. Bleach is no slacker either when it comes to background detail.


 
Your right, Bleach doesn't slack on backgrounds seeing it barely has any.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

Blood Dawn said:


> Your right, Bleach doesn't slack on backgrounds seeing it barely has any.



Read what I said about Soul Society and Karakura town.
You're just another example of bandwagon jumping Bleach hater.


----------



## Devil King Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> Read what I said about Soul Society and Karakura town.
> You're just another example of bandwagon jumping Bleach hater.


 

I really dont hate Bleach. Its just that the author neglects the background majority of the time.

Stop living in denial. When was the last notable background picture in Bleach?


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> I don't think you understand the difference between mildly surpasses and stomps.  Bleach is no slacker either when it comes to background detail.



Of course I do. Sure, back in the day Bleach has awesome backgrounds but they still don't hold a candle to One Piece's IMO. Nowadays, what we get mostly are black and white backgrounds - hopefully you don't consider those "mildly surpassed" by One Piece.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

^What are you talking about?  Bleach is always in Black and white?  They're fighting in the fucking air right now, what do you expect to see?



Blood Dawn said:


> I really dont hate Bleach. Its just that the author neglects the background majority of the time.
> 
> Stop living in denial. When was the last notable background picture in Bleach?



Not really.  Depends on the location.

Yumichika fight impressed me.  And the Koumoumura one.


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> So I'm trolling if I say Bleach has excellent poetry and artwork?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm still waiting for you to post that excellent poetry Bleach has.


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> ^What are you talking about?  Bleach is always in Black and white?  They're fighting in the fucking air right now, what do you expect to see?



LOLWUT?! Now I'm really compelled to agree with Blood Dawn that you're indeed living in denial. Even ground fights have black and white backgrounds.


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

^Not while fighting in air?  What do you expect to see other than the sky?



WILD CARD said:


> I'm still waiting for you to post that excellent poetry Bleach has.





> We stand in awe of that which cannot be seen, and we respect with every fiber that which cannot be explained.
> 
> People are able to hold on to hope,
> since death is that which cannot be seen
> ...


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> ^Not while fighting in air?  What do you expect to see other than the sky?





> We stand in awe of that which cannot be seen, and we respect with every fiber that which cannot be explained.
> 
> People are able to hold on to hope,
> since death is that which cannot be seen
> ...


Chapter, Page?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

WILD CARD said:


> Chapter, Page?



For peK's sake, their manga taglines, if you want to know the chapter numbers look em up.


----------



## Superstars (Jul 19, 2009)

Razzzz said:


> Jugger do you know that you're a moron who can't even grasp the plot outline of a story arc? Making shit on the spot and generalizing it is rediciously stupid. There were barely any fights in this recent arc, and the battles against cannon fodder were minimum at best. Impel Down's theme was all about adventuring and exploring the different levels while trying to rescue Ace from the clutches of the WG. And due to that we met an interesting set of characters and got more background info.



And? you act as if this justifies Impel down from not being garbage. It was crap, and yes Luffy and co fought nothing but fodder [besides Magellan] while running through levels [like a video game] of a so called "most dangerous prison in the world." It was lame, It was like Team Sonic from *SEGA* GUEST WROTE this boring arc. Who has tranny's [Which are garbage characters, Ivankov and co] able to shoot pool inside the worst prison in the world? That's not humor, that's plan dumb.

One Piece hasn't been nothing since alabasta arc, save a few batles down the road and One Piece is just crap through and through and never picked itself back up. This war can only save it...



Trick2 said:


> Bleach....
> 
> after the SS arc it fails...then Kubo brings out the TBTP flashbacks which equals win, then fails with dragged out and nonsense fodder fights, then so far the last 4 chapters have been wins so far...you get the idea



So, How does Kenpachi vs Noitara suck? It doesn't that's how, that was one great battle and the kendo is a logical power-up cause it does exactly that, doubles the swordsman strength when using two hands. Go read/watch Rurouni Kenshin they state/do the same thing. 

Grimmjaw vs Ichigo was a good battle, Mayuri vs Apollo was the business, not too mention the speech on perfection from Mayuri was deep and much more insightful than anything one piece has done. Hell, Mayuri alone takes dumps on any one piece character for personality and design! Kubo draws out the characters personalities while in battle as well.

And I just lol'd at you sating nonsense fodder fights, no fight was fodder they all have a purpose and it is simply to stop Aizen!

And again I love when people try to compare ART they wanna bring up Oda's backgrounds..Wow, lol, so what? the CHARACTERS always overshadow the backgrounds and Kubo has the better character designs over oda, period.


----------



## Trick2 (Jul 19, 2009)

Superstars said:


> So, How does Kenpachi vs Noitara suck? It doesn't that's how, that was one great battle and the kendo is a logical power-up cause it does exactly that, doubles the swordsman strength when using two hands. Go read/watch Rurouni Kenshin they state/do the same thing.
> 
> Grimmjaw vs Ichigo was a good battle, Mayuri vs Apollo was the business, not too mention the speech on perfection from Mayuri was deep and much more insightful than anything one piece has done. Hell, Mayuri alone takes dumps on any one piece character for personality and design! Kubo draws out the characters personalities while in battle as well.
> 
> ...



you know what...I'll give you Noitara vs, Kenpachi(even though a lot of people here hate it)...and sorry but the Mayuri vs. Apollo fight was mediocre at best. I'm not gonna argue with you about Mayuri's speech because I kinda agree that Kubo can write "poetry" as Mider T puts it but my only beef about it is that it could have been more...I guess I just wanted Mayuri to do more than just showcase his abilities then get stuck in HM indefinitely. But overall??? Hueco Mundo arc=fail

Yes...Kira, Yumichika, Hisagi, and Matsumoto's fight could have been done off-panel and left as a filler for the anime...it just made the manga looked dragged out. Because in the end it didn't really affect anything aside from one tower falling...

characters always overshadow the backgrounds??? no...to me that just screams lazy if you can't even bother to think of the setting for your story so you just opt to go with walls and empty spaces.


----------



## armorknight (Jul 19, 2009)

I really think that the problem with Bleach lies in the fact that people take it too seriously. Bleach becomes much more enjoyable when you turn your brain off and accept that it's a dbz-style fight manga that's good for an excitement boost.


----------



## Inugami (Jul 19, 2009)

LOL superstars is back! I still remember your rage-quit moment on the ''If the big 3 mangaka's switched their mangas'' thread .


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 19, 2009)

The Doctor said:


> Skipping OP arcs is stupid at very least. Especially because Oda keeps bringing old characters back into the story.



Not it isn't, especially in the age of the internet where you can just read what happened during 100 chapters in two paragraphs. Skipping OP arcs is fine, I suggest to everyone who says the first arcs are boring to just skip to Alabasta. You aren't going to be lost if you skip an arc or two in One Piece.


----------



## Trick2 (Jul 19, 2009)

mystictrunks said:


> Not it isn't, especially in the age of the internet where you can just read what happened during 100 chapters in two paragraphs. Skipping OP arcs is fine, I suggest to everyone who says the first arcs are boring to just skip to Alabasta. You aren't going to be lost if you skip an arc or two in One Piece.



and skip arlong arc???


----------



## RivFader (Jul 19, 2009)

Superstars said:


> And? you act as if this justifies Impel down from not being garbage. It was crap, and yes Luffy and co fought nothing but fodder [besides Magellan] while running through levels [like a video game] of a so called "most dangerous prison in the world." It was lame, It was like Team Sonic from *SEGA* GUEST WROTE this boring arc. Who has tranny's [Which are garbage characters, Ivankov and co] able to shoot pool inside the worst prison in the world? That's not humor, that's plan dumb.



Wow, I have to agree with Superstars to a certain degree (for the first time ever, lol).

Impel Down felt simply empty to me, there were some good moments but it was missing a great deal of the usual atmosphere in OP. It was a more or less mediocre arc within the OP story and not nearly as exciting as the Shabondy Archipelago, Alabasta or Skypeia. Also the Amazon Lily arc was kind of  and is along with the Davy Back Fight one of the worst arcs in OP. yet, unlike a certain manga with Shinigami's or Shinobi's it wasn't plain and hab a lot of interesting infos and some nice plot twists, something Bleach and Naruto fail to deliver for the alst 100 chapters (No, Sharingan for everyone isn't a plot twist, it's ridiculous). 
And about the random power-ups Op character seem to pull out for some guys here: It's Oda's style. Except for the gears and maybe Nightmare Luffy no power-up were explained as much as tehy were in every Shounen manga. However, Bleach and Naruto started to explain nearly every attack and every upgrade for every single character in the past but dropped that to just show random power-ups without explanation. You can say that oda, on the contrary to Kubo or Kishi, is consistent.

Also, skipping content in _every_ manga is just plain stupid. You've got to read the whole story to judge it correctly.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 19, 2009)

Trick2 said:


> and skip arlong arc???



Yea Alabasta makes an excellent jump on point since you get to see one of the better villains in the story along with the main characters in some of their best moments. You may not know who most of the crew members are or what their personalities are like if you start this way but once you get to the end of Alabasta you'll be pretty familiar with them and might even want to backtrack. The Arlong Arc isn't that good if you aren't interested in the early story.


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## Inugami (Jul 19, 2009)

holy shit people now think that Impel Down was garbage....it was one of the best arcs! you have Buggy here!


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 19, 2009)

_Impel down was over-hyped crap, Superstar summed it up right:_




> And? you act as if this justifies Impel down from not being garbage. It was crap, and yes Luffy and co fought nothing but fodder [besides Magellan] while running through levels [like a video game] of a so called "most dangerous prison in the world." It was lame, It was like Team Sonic from SEGA GUEST WROTE this boring arc. Who has tranny's [Which are garbage characters, Ivankov and co] able to shoot pool inside the worst prison in the world? That's not humor, that's plan dumb.


----------



## Champagne Supernova (Jul 19, 2009)

Superstars should learn to think before he types.


----------



## newbieFans (Jul 19, 2009)

Atleast i'm not a hypocrite who hate the manga but still reading it.
I don't like Bleach, I am just reading it to 10 chapters. I fed up by samurai theme, so I don't know how it's going on.
I like Fairy Tail until Meteor Guy, after that I don't know how the story is going on either....don't bash me cuz it's just taste preference...


----------



## Inugami (Jul 19, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _Impel down was over-hyped crap, Superstar summed it up right:_



That opinion don't really count he's a OP hater .


----------



## Stroev (Jul 19, 2009)

Amōr said:


> _He beat Nnoitra by increasing the power behind his swings by using two hands and breaking Nnoitra's Hierro. How does that break someones suspension of disbelief, but Zoro growing extra body parts with no explanation to beat Kaku in EL gets leeway? _


Kenpachi did have a little background with the two handed thing, or at least simply called upon the reader's common knowledge to know something like this. 

Both Zoro and Kenpachi were okay with me.



Amōr said:


> _
> I really don't see how Kenpaichi's Kendo was any worse than any of the power ups in One Pieces later chapters. Unless we are talking about Ichigo, but that's the staple of the character._


This.



kurono76767 said:


> They get decent explanations and some only one time. When Luffy faced Crocodile, his power up made sense and it really only worked on Crocodile. Same with Enel, Luffy had the perfect counter. When Luffy fought Moria he got  a pretty big power up but it only worked once and Luffy had the help of many other people.
> 
> Gears came out of no where like I said but it's explanation was passable. Actually now Haki comes to mind. That was a pretty big power up but it was foreshadowed a couple of times in past arcs.


.

This.



Wuzzman said:


> stuff


O hai ther Wuzzman



VastoLorDae said:


> No idea how much that frustrated me. Especially the latest one...the destruction of a bunch of Gillians and people like Hitsugaya actually thinking that is impressive...man I hope this up coming one has more substance. If shinji gets owned then please make it by multiple moves for multiple pages...not one move different reactions the whole chapter...please


Again, I was also annoyed by this.

However, when it came to the double panel of the vizards, they were spread out enough throughout the chapter so it wasn't that annoying.


Oxvial said:


> Thread that fail... to ... win? We retain hope






Hiruzen said:


> Fairy Tail was at its peak in the Phantom Lord Arc. Then along came Gerard


.



Amōr said:


> _Impel down was over-hyped crap, Superstar summed it up right:_


Okay.



Mider T said:


> Read what I said about Soul Society and Karakura town.
> You're just another example of bandwagon jumping Bleach hater.


SS & before that actually defined the title of the series. After that, things got silly. SILLY.



Superstars said:


> Impel down rage; Bleach support


Oh you.

By the way you make it sound, you just plain hate Impel Down. I can only see where you're coming from aonly a bit.

Mayuri was not deep. Ichigo vs. Grimmjaw sucked. Kenpachi did make sense, though. I forgot what else you typed. :3



Oxvial said:


> LOL superstars is back! I still remember your rage-quit moment on the ''If the big 3 mangaka's switched their mangas'' thread .


:ho


----------



## Jugger (Jul 19, 2009)

can you really like arc that all about luffy? Impel down was supposed to be best prison but it was so easily destroyed by luffy. It was pure fodder fest and it had no meaning after all.


----------



## The Imp (Jul 19, 2009)

Jugger said:


> can you really like arc that all about luffy? Impel down was supposed to be best prison but it was so easily destroyed by luffy. It was pure fodder fest and it had no meaning after all.



I know it should have been zoro saving ace. then it would be really cool, right?


----------



## RivFader (Jul 19, 2009)

kurono76767 said:


> I know it should have been zoro saving ace. then it would be really cool, right?



:ho


*Spoiler*: _Quoting myself..I feel so dirty, but I'm to lazy to type this shit again_ 





RivFader said:


> Wow, I have to agree with Superstars to a certain degree (for the first time ever, lol).
> 
> Impel Down felt simply empty to me, there were some good moments but it was missing a great deal of the usual atmosphere in OP. It was a more or less mediocre arc within the OP story and not nearly as exciting as the Shabondy Archipelago, Alabasta or Skypeia. Also the Amazon Lily arc was kind of  and is along with the Davy Back Fight one of the worst arcs in OP. yet, unlike a certain manga with Shinigami's or Shinobi's it wasn't plain and hab a lot of interesting infos and some nice plot twists, something Bleach and Naruto fail to deliver for the alst 100 chapters (No, Sharingan for everyone isn't a plot twist, it's ridiculous).
> And about the random power-ups Op character seem to pull out for some guys here: It's Oda's style. Except for the gears and maybe Nightmare Luffy no power-up were explained as much as tehy were in every Shounen manga. However, Bleach and Naruto started to explain nearly every attack and every upgrade for every single character in the past but dropped that to just show random power-ups without explanation. You can say that oda, on the contrary to Kubo or Kishi, is consistent.
> ...







Oh well, in the end it's all based on opinions.


----------



## Devil King Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

This is thread is now infested with trolls. @_@


----------



## firefist (Jul 19, 2009)

Impel Down was awesome. It may have been different the Arabasta and CP9 but an Arc doesnt need pure fighting to be epic.


----------



## RivFader (Jul 19, 2009)

Blood Dawn said:


> This is thread is now infested with trolls. @_@



_Every_ thread regarding the comparision of manga's is infested with trolls after 15+X posts.

We should be used to it by now.


----------



## Rokudaime (Jul 19, 2009)

Firefist said:


> Impel Down was awesome. It may have been different the Arabasta and CP9 but an Arc doesnt need pure fighting to be epic.



Impel Down was awesome until Oda introduce the Level 5.5

It completely killed the hype of the most fortitude prison in the world.


----------



## KLoWn (Jul 19, 2009)

*One Piece.*
It's a real rollercoaster, it frequently goes from epic to boring as shit and back to epic again.


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 19, 2009)

_How much you wanna bet if this was a Bleach and Naruto bashfest. It wouldn't count as trolling, fanboyism bias ftw._


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

I still dont get why Skypiea is hated on, sure it was a little dragged out at times but

It had the perhaps best flashback in the series not to mention Enel by himself was one of the better villains so far



KLoWn said:


> *One Piece.*
> It's a real rollercoaster, it frequently goes from epic to boring as shit and back to epic again.



Except for the Duval and Amazon Lily chapters, when has it been below par lately exactly?


----------



## SogeQueen (Jul 19, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> I still dont get why Skypiea gets so much hate, sure, *it was a little dragged out at times* but
> 
> It had the perhaps best flashback in the series not to mention Enel by himself was one of the better villains so far


Bit of an understatement in my opinion. Skypiea had an interesting story, but it just went on and on and on. It is one of my least favourite arcs for that reason.


----------



## KLoWn (Jul 19, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Except for the Duval and Amazon Lily chapters, when has it been below par lately?


EL (before it turned into a fuckin zoo) > TB/Duval/Shabondy (the beginning) > Shabondy (supernovas/Kizaru etc) > Amazon island > Impel Down


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jul 19, 2009)

Wow. What a shitstorm this has become.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

KLoWn said:


> EL > TB/Duval/Shabondy (the beginning) > Shabondy (supernovas/Kizaru etc) > Amazon island > Impel Down



Agreed on EL not being great

It was quite a letdown compared to W7, was still fairly good overall though

TB i liked alot

One of my favourite arcs with the likes of Moria, Ryuuma, Brooke, NM Luffy etc.


----------



## Cerō2 (Jul 19, 2009)

_Sky Island started up really slowly, but once it got going it ended being one of the best saga's. It's a complete 180 of from barioque works which started of good and began to decline by the time they got to drum. SkyPiea > Alabasta_


----------



## RivFader (Jul 19, 2009)

Oh wow, this is turning into a "Rate all OP arcs" thread. Should we start to go back on-topic and create another thread for this purpose?


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

RivFader said:


> Oh wow, this is turning into a "Rate all OP arcs" thread. Should we start to go back on-topic and create another thread for this purpose?



Why bother when its going to turn into another OP vs Narubleh thread just like this one


----------



## RivFader (Jul 19, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> Why bother when its going to turn into another OP vs Narubleh thread just like this one



We could do it in the OP section where I already made a "Rate the Impel Down arc" thread. But I'm afraid that we won't find a palce within this whole forum where it won't turn out to be biased troll fest.

And about these threads:
Kyon-kun, denwa!


----------



## Sengoku (Jul 19, 2009)

All I gotta say is that there are thousands and thousands of banners saying "Kubo Tite Trolled My Fandom" and Bleach supporters actually support that.


----------



## Ennoea (Jul 19, 2009)

Other than some of the resolutions to the CP9 fights EL was freaking epic.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 19, 2009)

Ennoea said:


> *Other than some of the resolutions to the CP9 fights *EL was freaking epic.



This is what i thought dragged it down from what it could have been


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

Sengoku said:


> All I gotta say is that there are thousands and thousands of banners saying "Kubo Tite Trolled My Fandom" and Bleach supporters actually support that.



It started as a joke thread from a Bleach fan within the Bleach section, it evolved from there.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 19, 2009)

WILD CARD said:


> Also this is pure opinion but you did not find
> Rayleigh
> 11 supernovas(potentially good characters)
> Kizaru
> ...



No. I much prefer the same time spent making Usopp, Franky, and Chopper better characters. Hell Crocodile was a great character for me, but seeing him as a proganist'? huge meh. The whole meremen vs world government doesn't need much of a set up, i mean even in the arc in which it was all set up, the mermaid girl being sold as a slave was hardly heart wrenching or even sad. I had a much more satisfying picture of merman/human relations with the Arlong arc. 

Gold Rogers missing badasses don't need much of an introduction, i didn't need to see the second in command, his only purpose was to fight the what the marines consider their "greatest fighting force". The kuma clones were interesting but i doubt oda will do anything with it before i stop caring. 

As considering your crew your family doesn't necessarily give you the allowance to act like a retard. I'm sorry but if white beard was so concerned that his band of _pirates_ will be killed by_ marines_ then he should have had this war in the beginning of the manga. I'm sorry but Whitebeards decision making makes it really hard to pretend one piece is about pirates. Whats even sadder is that oda is making it all to obvious that black beard vs luffy is going to happen down the line. The fact that Whitebeard isn't expanding the same amount of energy toward hunting Blackbeard is fucking sad.

It doesn't help that kubo tite is still trolling his fandom.


----------



## kumabear (Jul 19, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> No. I much prefer the same time spent making Usopp, Franky, and Chopper better characters. Hell Crocodile was a great character for me, but seeing him as a proganist'? huge meh. The whole meremen vs world government doesn't need much of a set up, i mean even in the arc in which it was all set up, the mermaid girl being sold as a slave was hardly heart wrenching or even sad. I had a much more satisfying picture of merman/human relations with the Arlong arc.
> 
> Gold Rogers missing badasses don't need much of an introduction, i didn't need to see the second in command, his only purpose was to fight the what the marines consider their "greatest fighting force". The kuma clones were interesting but i doubt oda will do anything with it before i stop caring.
> 
> ...



lol. okay. I know you're trolling but i'll respond anyways since i'm bored.

First off, Usopp, Chopper, and Franky are all already developed characters. If you can't see this you have the reading capabilities of a rock.

Second , if you don't like Rayleigh you don't have a penis. Sorry but true. 

Third , if you can't understand why a man would sacrifice everything to go back and save a single comrade YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE A PENIS. because real men don't leave their comrades to die while they can do something about it. That's not even an opinion or an ideal, it's a fact.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm guessing the difference between the difference between the leader of basically a world power and a being a typical shounen hero is lost on you? Are you seriously going to prove to me why one piece isn't any better then naruto or bleach?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

^IRL, what first world country do you know tolerates citizens being captured and held hostage?


----------



## Platinum (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> ^IRL, what first world country do you know tolerates citizens being captured and held hostage?



...France ?


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

_Respectable_ first world countries


----------



## armorknight (Jul 19, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> No. I much prefer the same time spent making Usopp, Franky, and Chopper better characters. Hell Crocodile was a great character for me, but seeing him as a proganist'? huge meh. The whole meremen vs world government doesn't need much of a set up, i mean even in the arc in which it was all set up, the mermaid girl being sold as a slave was hardly heart wrenching or even sad. I had a much more satisfying picture of merman/human relations with the Arlong arc.
> 
> Gold Rogers missing badasses don't need much of an introduction, i didn't need to see the second in command, his only purpose was to fight the what the marines consider their "greatest fighting force". The kuma clones were interesting but i doubt oda will do anything with it before i stop caring.
> 
> ...



Like kumabear said, the strawhats are all pretty much fully developed. One piece was never about long drawn-out character development. Luffy himself hasn't realy changed all that much since the manga's beginning.

Kubo's trolling is just a part of Bleach. Accepting that fact is hard for most people including me. The reason that such a large percentage Bleach's reader base are haters is because of this.


----------



## mystictrunks (Jul 19, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> I still dont get why Skypiea is hated on, sure it was a little dragged out at times but



9/10 characters introduced in the arc where as boring as could be.



SMH @ This Turning into a homotional war between One Piece fans and people who don't like three arcs.


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 19, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> Wow. What a shitstorm this has become.



Y'know, when you don't want shitstorms to happen, you shouldn't have created such a thread in the first place coz it'd be obvious that all the fanboys will come here and bash each other's manga.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> ^IRL, what first world country do you know tolerates citizens being captured and held hostage?



We haven't started any wars over a captured citizen.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 19, 2009)

armorknight said:


> Kubo's trolling is just a part of Bleach. Accepting that fact is hard for most people including me. The reason that such a large percentage Bleach's reader base are haters is because of this.



Mentioning manga that troll their fanbase, there is always Gantz. Gantz trolls its fanbase so well that it's own fans don't realize their getting trolled....


----------



## Mider T (Jul 19, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> We haven't started any wars over a captured citizen.



When has that happened in the manga?


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 19, 2009)

Mider T said:


> When has that happened in the manga?



I was talking about real life Mider T...


----------



## Supa Swag (Jul 20, 2009)

the fuck is this thread even about now?


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 21, 2009)

Jugger said:


> can you really like arc that all about luffy? Impel down was supposed to be best prison but it was so easily destroyed by luffy. It was pure fodder fest and it had no meaning after all.






> What annoys me about One Piece haters is that the very reason they hate One Piece is not what it lacks but what it actually has if you actually READ IT.


I should put this in my sig 

-Luffy had the help of Boa(a Shichibukai) to break in
-The monsters in level 2 ALONE where enough to be a trouble for Luffy
-Luffy, Buggy, Mr. 3 and Mr. 2 could barely take down a demon guard
-Luffy was obliterated by Magellan
-Luffy needed the help of 2 revolutionaries, 2 shichibukai, baroque agents and whole of other prisoners to escape
-No one but the shichibukai and Luffy could take down the demon guards
-Blackbeard(ANOTHER SHICIBUKAI) arrived and decimated the entire front defenses
-Magellan one shotted a shicibukai and his entire crew
-Shiryuu also took care of all the guards in the upper levels
-Magellan defeated 2 revolutionaries and sent 2 shichibukai running scared from him
-Luffy with wax armor couldn't do shit to Magellan
-They needed Jinbei's help alot to actually escape the calm belt
-They needed Bonclay's help to escape the gates of justice(Bonchan )
-No one not even Jimbei or Luffy were able to beat Magellan this entire arc(he didn't even look tired or injured)

So yes Luffy destroyed Impel Down with no help or luck whatsoever and definitely did not live up to being the best prison in the world.


----------



## Black Leg Sanji (Jul 21, 2009)

mystictrunks said:


> 9/10 characters introduced in the arc where as boring as could be.



Enel, Calgara, Norland, Wiper, Ohm, Gan Fall etc disagrees


----------



## Grandmaster Kane (Jul 21, 2009)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> *Enel,* Calgara, Norland,* Wiper*, Ohm, Gan Fall etc disagrees



I agree on the bolded


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 21, 2009)

WILD CARD said:


> I should put this in my sig
> 
> -Luffy had the help of Boa(a Shichibukai) to break in
> -The monsters in level 2 ALONE where enough to be a trouble for Luffy
> ...



Luffy shouldn't have made it past level 1 if that was a credible prison. Luffy should have died when he fought Magellan on level 3. ..the fact that people were drinking tequila on level 4 made me facepalm.


----------



## Ennoea (Jul 21, 2009)

Wuzzman I do agree but its a shonen manga, if Luffy didn't make it past level 1 there would be no arc.


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 21, 2009)

True. But the fact that he did already made the events of this arc a forgone conclusion, removing 99% of the tension of the arc and tension is kinda needed to tell an arc about people in prison.


----------



## Yoburi (Jul 21, 2009)

I have to say Gantz for sure when i start reading that shit suck so much that i almost droped but then all the assholes in this manga DIE in a gore and ugly death save ONE and then this guy became a big time HERO he could even Top Gutts because he is a normal guy kicking mean aliens and getting laid but after he die for the second time the manga becames shit again but i do have hope after all he just fuck Reika.


----------



## Rokudaime (Jul 22, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Luffy shouldn't have made it past level 1 if that was a credible prison. Luffy should have died when he fought Magellan on level 3. ..the fact that people were drinking tequila on *level 4 made me facepalm*.



How about Level 5.5 ?


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 22, 2009)

Rokudaime said:


> How about Level 5.5 ?



Am I still supposed to care once the transsexual queen was introduced?


----------



## BadassTaisouIsBadass (Jul 22, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Am I still supposed to care once the transsexual queen was introduced?



Homo hater much?


----------



## Wuzzman (Jul 22, 2009)

BadassTaisouIsBadass said:


> Homo hater much?



Should i care? Army of gay men, oh yes sounds Oscar worthy....wait that would probably win an Oscar


----------



## RivFader (Jul 23, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Should i care? Army of gay men, oh yes sounds Oscar worthy....wait that would probably win an Oscar



Bashing Brokeback Mountain? 

lol @ Superstars


----------



## Inugami (Jul 23, 2009)

Lol Superstars rage-quit again.


----------



## Ennoea (Jul 23, 2009)

Won what exactly?


----------



## WILD CARD (Jul 24, 2009)

Wuzzman said:


> Luffy shouldn't have made it past level 1 if that was a credible prison. Luffy should have died when he fought Magellan on level 3. ..the fact that people were drinking tequila on level 4 made me facepalm.



1) Luffy has already beaten a shichibukai, took down the best of cipher pol and is capable of taking down thousands of marine privates even without gear 3, so him taking down loads of fodder guards is not surprising
2) Magellan was busy escorting Hancock to deal with Luffy(He would have owned him on level 2 easily)
3) Magellan knew that Luffy was going to die(no antidote for poison) if not for Ivankov 
Luffy needed a load of luck and help and I mean a shitload to actually get through those levels
-Without Hancock freezing the cameras Luffy would have been caught at the beginning
-Without Buggy Luffy would have stayed at level 1
-Without the sphinx Saldeath would have caught him
-Without Buggy, Mr. 2, and Mr. 3 Luffy would have lost to a demonguard
-If Magellan hadn't bitchslapped Luffy the 3 demonguards at level 4 would have
-Luffy only had a 10% chance of surviving the poison with Ivankov's cure(guess what happened?)
-If Ace wasn't transported by Magellan, Magellan would have stopped them at level 4 right then and there
-Without Inazuma they would be poisoned at level 6
-Without Crocodile they would be stuck at level 6
-Without Blackbeard those 1000+ soldiers and Magellan would have flanked them at level 3
-If the guards did not release Shiryuu he wouldn't have helped in taking down the security
-If mr. 3 did not help them Magellan would have owned them again
-Without Jimbei tehy would be stuck in the calm belt
-Without Bonclay they would be stuck at the gates of justice

The fact that a prison could exist that could take so much shit and so much bad luck and still hold their own against such high level prisoners shows why Impel Down was their best prison.


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