# Bullied gay teen faces expulsion after firing stun gun at school



## Kira Yamato (May 4, 2012)

*Bullied gay teen faces expulsion after firing stun gun at school*



> A gay teenager who said bullying drove him to bring a stun gun to school -- and fire it in the air when he felt threatened -- may be expelled, a local media report says.
> 
> *Darnell ?Dynasty? Young, 17, was facing daily harassment from bullies at Arsenal Technical High School in Indianapolis who would taunt him, throw rocks and bottles at him and follow him home, according to the Indianapolis Star. A rumor also was spread that he performed sex acts in the bathroom. At one point, Young contemplated suicide.*
> 
> ...





I can understand the school being in a tough spot, especially when there's a zero tolerance policy against bringing weapons to school. What he did was illegal. There isn't any arguing that point. 

My question is why don't they treat Bullying in the same fashion (Zero-tolerance). Fostering an environment that allows such actions to take place does nothing to escalate the situation to the point where the victim feels they need to protect their very life.


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## Ghost (May 4, 2012)

Take those fucking pussy bullies to Africa to live normal daily life for few months. After that they might be able to respect people.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

The school is at fault here for having neglected the situation for so long that it caused it to escalate to that point. They ought to feel as responsible for what happened as the child who brought the weapon in. If they'd paid more attention to the matter, nothing like this would've happened in the first place. They're as much to blame as anyone for this. 

I think a good idea would be to warn the child never to bring a weapon in school again and be placed under supervision both to safeguard him from the bullying and to prevent him from lashing out the way he did as well as make sure he doesn't bring a weapon to school again. The same rule would apply to the bullies.


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## impersonal (May 4, 2012)

> "If you wear female apparel, then kids are kids and they're going to say whatever it is that they want to say," Yarrell told the newspaper. "Because you want to be different and because you choose to wear female apparel, it may happen. In the idealistic society, it shouldn't matter. People should be able to wear what they want to wear."


Seems reasonable to me. 

I also think the school had not much choice but to expel him, both in accordance with its policy regarding weapons, and for the kid's own protection. If he keeps coming to school in drag, this stuff is going to happen... Unless the school hires a bodyguard for that kid, but I doubt it can afford that.

We keep telling kids "be who you are, don't try to fit in". Bullshit. Fitting in is important. That doesn't mean bullying shouldn't be fought against,... but the kid needs to learn to make friends, and that means compromising. Regardless of how gay he is, if wearing blue jeans and a t-shirt makes his life a thousand times easier, why doesn't he do it?


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

wait, the kid was dressing up in female clothes, and expected to not be made fun of? seriously


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> wait, the kid was dressing up in female clothes, and expected to not be made fun of? seriously



That still wouldn't justify the bullying. That behavior just shouldn't take place.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That still wouldn't justify the bullying. That behavior just shouldn't take place.



what kind of world do you live in? if i dress in a piggy costume and go to school like that, am i to complain when im made fun of? theres making fun of someone for being gay and there's making fun of some dude who dresses up as a girl. Freedom to do as you want is all pretty and dandy but the same can be said for the ones making fun of you.


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## dummy plug (May 4, 2012)

ok punish him for carrying said weapon, now punish those ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) bullies as well...


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## impersonal (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> what kind of world do you live in? if i dress in a piggy costume and go to school like that, am i to complain when im made fun of? theres making fun of someone for being gay and there's making fun of some dude who dresses up as a girl. Freedom to do as you want is all pretty and dandy but the same can be said for the ones making fun of you.



That is not true. You're free to do as you want, you're not free to harass others.

The other kids were free to reject him and leave him alone, not to throw stuff at him or beat him up.

I still agree that the kid, for his own good, shouldn't go to school dressed as a woman. I just don't think that, even in these circumstances, bullying is justified or acceptable.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

the kid wasnt beat up. i doubt he suffered body harm at all. and you see some 17yr old dressed as a girl at a school, you are going to laugh at him, point at him and comment with all your friends. thats what people do. thats what kids do. thats what everyone knows is going to happen. you dont want to be made fun of, dont go to school dressed as a girl unless you are in fact a girl. 

the dude brought this on himself, and even went as far as overreacting and carrying a stun gun.

i dont see how you dont see this as normal behaviour in any school in the world.


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## Mael (May 4, 2012)

impersonal said:


> That is not true. You're free to do as you want, you're not free to harass others.
> 
> The other kids were free to reject him and leave him alone, not to throw stuff at him or beat him up.
> 
> I still agree that the kid, for his own good, shouldn't go to school dressed as a woman. I just don't think that, even in these circumstances, bullying is justified or acceptable.



Oh but you see, we coddle such psychological idiosyncrasies because for the darnedest reason, if we don't this will apparently traumatize the kid.  Horseshit.  I think people should realize lowering your chances of having rocks and bottles thrown at you from wearing heels as a man is a lot more logical than some inane quest to convince (or force) everyone to accept the oddity.  Rather it be temporary emotional trauma than long-lasting blunt force trauma.

This bullying crusade, while noble in intent, sometimes fails to realize that in some times the kid is just as accountable as the bullies.  By wearing drag in a school filled with hormonal and mentally immature individuals, you're being a target.  Sounds callous but there's a ring of truth to it.


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## baconbits (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That still wouldn't justify the bullying. That behavior just shouldn't take place.



Correct, he _shouldn't _be bullied but common sense will tell you that in any High School he will be mocked.

That's why the school gave the advice to tone it down, the same message I tell the kids I know who want to dress "hip-hop" when they go to almost all white schools - sure, you can wear what you want but don't push people's buttons for no reason.


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## Karsh (May 4, 2012)

So are news going by themes?


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## ImperatorMortis (May 4, 2012)

He should have hit the dude with it.


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## Sygurgh (May 4, 2012)

I never had trouble with bullies until I was in tenth grade when I became a target of the head of the bully pack for no reason whatsoever. The bullying (verbal and physical violence, humiliations) lasted for a few months (despite complains to the authorities of the school). I’m a bit shy so I simply ignored the problem until one day I simply snapped and threw the guy on the ground and strangled him with one of the electric cables that we used in class for a good ten seconds.

I was suspended and became disgusted with the system. The problem continued so I told my problem to my cousin who has always been very protective of me and we went with a few guys to the bully’s home with bats and the like (I live in France, no guns here). We destroyed a few things and left with a few words of warning. I still don’t regret my actions to this day; the schools are useless when it comes to deal with bullies, no matter the country.


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## ImperatorMortis (May 4, 2012)

Sygurgh said:


> I never had trouble with bullies until I was in tenth grade when I became a target of the head of the bully pack for no reason whatsoever. The bullying (verbal and physical violence, humiliations) lasted for a few months (despite complains to the authorities of the school). I?m a bit shy so I simply ignored the problem until one day *I simply snapped and threw the guy on the ground and strangled him with one of the electric cables that we used in class for a good ten seconds.
> *
> I was suspended and became disgusted with the system. The problem continued so *I told my problem to my cousin who has always been very protective of me and we went with a few guys to the bully?s home with bats and the like (I live in France, no guns here). We destroyed a few things and left with a few words of warning.* I still don?t regret my actions to this day; the schools are useless when it comes to deal with bullies, no matter the country.



Bloody awesome.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> the kid wasnt beat up. i doubt he suffered body harm at all. and you see some 17yr old dressed as a girl at a school, you are going to laugh at him, point at him and comment with all your friends. thats what people do. thats what kids do. thats what everyone knows is going to happen. you dont want to be made fun of, dont go to school dressed as a girl unless you are in fact a girl.
> 
> the dude brought this on himself, and even went as far as overreacting and carrying a stun gun.
> 
> i dont see how you dont see this as normal behaviour in any school in the world.





baconbits said:


> Correct, he _shouldn't _be bullied but common sense will tell you that in any High School he will be mocked.
> 
> That's why the school gave the advice to tone it down, the same message I tell the kids I know who want to dress "hip-hop" when they go to almost all white schools - sure, you can wear what you want but don't push people's buttons for no reason.



I agree that discretion should be pursued by anyone in relation to where they are. But seriously, what you two are saying is a kin to "that girl was dressed so skimpy that she brought it on herself when she go raped." That sort of mentality is even more disgusting imho. So the school told the kid to tone it down. What did they do to stop the bullying? Nothing as far as I can tell. Both sides should've made a compromise. 

And since you're considering how kids are, do you honestly think they bullying would've stopped if one day he came in dressed like a guy? They would remember how he was dressed and would make fun of him regardless. If he "toned it down," you have to consider how much that could've helped him. The staff should've taken more care to stop the bullying. You're making it out as if it's the boy's fault for being bullied and you're simply going to take it for granted that bullies exist at all.


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## Petes12 (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> what kind of world do you live in? if i dress in a piggy costume and go to school like that, am i to complain when im made fun of? theres making fun of someone for being gay and there's making fun of some dude who dresses up as a girl. Freedom to do as you want is all pretty and dandy but the same can be said for the ones making fun of you.



there's also a difference between making fun of someone and bullying them.

says they threw shit at him, surrounded him etc. obviously he wouldn't bring a stun gun to school just for namecalling.


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

Staff fails to protect the people they are responsible for, those people will seek protection elsewhere. I've been there and I've done that.  I hope the ACLU gets on this, because when it comes to bottles being thrown at you and followed home, fuck the laws and rules that keep you from protecting yourself. You do whatever you have to do to protect yourself, because everything else is insignificant and a political game.
And I'm shocked that one of these gay-news threads hasn't exploded yet.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> I agree that discretion should be pursued by anyone in relation to where they are. But seriously, what you two are saying is a kin to "that girl was dressed so skimpy that she brought it on herself when she go raped." That sort of mentality is even more disgusting imho. So the school told the kid to tone it down. What did they do to stop the bullying? Nothing as far as I can tell. Both sides should've made a compromise.
> 
> And since you're considering how kids are, do you honestly think they bullying would've stopped if one day he came in dressed like a guy? They would remember how he was dressed and would make fun of him regardless. If he "toned it down," you have to consider how much that could've helped him. The staff should've taken more care to stop the bullying. You're making it out as if it's the boy's fault for being bullied and you're simply going to take it for granted that bullies exist at all.



he only has himself to blame for that.

and lol comparing rape to making fun of a guy dressed as a girl at school.

for all i care, people who do these things should be made fun of. the rock throwing and such not really, but they should be pointed at and laughed at. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl


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## Petes12 (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> he only has himself to blame for that.
> 
> and lol comparing rape to making fun of a guy dressed as a girl at school.
> 
> for all i care, people who do these things should be made fun of. the rock throwing and such not really, but they should be pointed at and laughed at. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl



1) the issue was not that he was being made fun of, but that he was threatened

2) that's fucked up, you're a fucked up person


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> he only has himself to blame for that.
> 
> and lol comparing rape to making fun of a guy dressed as a girl at school.
> 
> for all i care, people who do these things should be made fun of. the rock throwing and such not really, but they should be pointed at and laughed at. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl


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## Narcissus (May 4, 2012)

There is never any justification when it comes to bullying. None at all.

Throwing rocks and bottles at someone is assault.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

eHav



eHav said:


> he only has himself to blame for that.
> 
> and lol comparing rape to making fun of a guy dressed as a girl at school.
> 
> for all i care, people who do these things should be made fun of. the rock throwing and such not really, but *they should be pointed at and laughed at*. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl



.....what?

WHAT?

What in the blue f**k did I just read?

As Petes12 said, there's a difference between "making fun of" and "bullying." The kid had things thrown at him, surrounded by other kids, and who knows what else. For starters, you're seriously underestimating the effect bullying has on someone. It wouldn't surprise me if you were never bullied before.

Secondly, they shouldn't be laughed at. What's wrong with you? That he was dressed differently doesn't justify the bullying. I didn't compare it to rape, I compared your thought process to when people think a girl who'se dressed skimpy deserves to get raped. So if someone is dressed differently from what society deems acceptable, they should be humiliated, made to be the laughing stock of the world and traumatized?

What kind of world do you live in? You're disgusting.


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## Mael (May 4, 2012)

Honestly, I do believe some kids bring it upon themselves and should learn to tone down eccentric behavior, but when you start throwing rocks and bottles at said individual you're crossing a line.

The kid's in drag, already asking for insults in an awful environment to do these sorts of things, high school.  But physical assault is not one of them unless this kid is directly fondling one of them in front of everyone...which he's not.


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## Blue (May 4, 2012)

Zero-tolerance for something subjective like bullying isn't reasonable. If they implemented that, any random jerkoff kid could report people he doesn't like for bullying.


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## baconbits (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> I agree that discretion should be pursued by anyone in relation to where they are. But seriously, what you two are saying is a kin to "that girl was dressed so skimpy that she brought it on herself when she go raped." That sort of mentality is even more disgusting imho. So the school told the kid to tone it down. What did they do to stop the bullying? Nothing as far as I can tell. Both sides should've made a compromise.



That's not what I've argued, Freedan.  A girl who dresses skimpily shouldn't complain about attention she receives but rape is a heinous crime that always deserves condemnation (and I believe execution but that's a debate in itself).  Also, bullying is clearly wrong, but if you can do something to protect yourself from it you'll be better off for it - that's all I'm arguing.

Also there are certain things that will draw bullying, which is why the rape comparison eventually falls apart.  If you act in completely unacceptable (to your social setting's) ways and behaviors people will criticize or insult you.

I do not defend the bullies in any way.  They should have been punished and if they aren't then the gay teen should defend himself/take matters into his own hands.



Freedan said:


> And since you're considering how kids are, do you honestly think they bullying would've stopped if one day he came in dressed like a guy? They would remember how he was dressed and would make fun of him regardless. If he "toned it down," you have to consider how much that could've helped him. The staff should've taken more care to stop the bullying. You're making it out as if it's the boy's fault for being bullied and you're simply going to take it for granted that bullies exist at all.



If that's what you got from my post I was unclear.  I do think that living as best you can within social norms is advisable.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

baconbits said:


> That's not what I've argued, Freedan.  A girl who dresses skimpily shouldn't complain about attention she receives but rape is a heinous crime that always deserves condemnation (and I believe execution but that's a debate in itself).  Also, bullying is clearly wrong, but if you can do something to protect yourself from it you'll be better off for it - that's all I'm arguing.
> 
> Also there are certain things that will draw bullying, which is why the rape comparison eventually falls apart.  If you act in completely unacceptable (to your social setting's) ways and behaviors people will criticize or insult you.
> 
> I do not defend the bullies in any way.  They should have been punished and if they aren't then the gay teen should defend himself/take matters into his own hands.



And how is dressing differently from the norm considered _completely_ unacceptable? There's no law where a boy has to dress like a boy. You're right that you can do something to protect yourself, like dressing more discreetly, but that line of thought can be applied to women in skimpy clothing (a woman can protect herself from rape if she doesn't wear skimpy dresses). Do you see why I made that comparison now?

Bullying may not have the same traumatizing effects as rape by any means, but it's still something that needs careful consideration. What you seem to be doing here is putting responsibility on the child for the bullying when the school is just as responsible if not more so for not keeping it in check to begin with, particularly after their speech that everyone should be allowed to be free to dress as they like.

The boy did take matters into his own hands and he's getting expelled for it. I don't mean to say that he should've taken a stun gun to school. Yes, he should've toned it down and perhaps he did but it still wasn't enough (because the bullies would still remember him as the one in girl's clothing) and was still made fun of.



baconbits said:


> If that's what you got from my post I was unclear.  I do think that living as best you can within social norms is advisable.



My point was that toning his clothing done after the first few instances wouldn't have helped him a great deal. The staff should've taken more responsibility for the boy even after telling him to tone it down instead of expecting everything to be fine after he did.


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## impersonal (May 4, 2012)

baconbits said:
			
		

> Also there are certain things that will draw bullying, which is why the rape comparison eventually falls apart. If you act in completely unacceptable (to your social setting's) ways and behaviors people will criticize or insult you.


Isn't rape the same? Some behaviors make rape more likely. Same for assault, etc. That doesn't mean the victims deserve it, but it means they should be advised to abandon such behavior when possible. At least when avoiding the likely consequences is worth abandoning the behavior.



			
				Freedan said:
			
		

> What did they do to stop the bullying? Nothing as far as I can tell.


Well, I think it's pretty difficult to tell what they did.



> Principal Larry Yarrell said the school had tried to look into the bullying reports, but Young was not always able to identify all of those who had harassed him. He said they had interviewed staff and students.



The problem with bullying, when it comes from plenty of different people, is that it's nearly impossible to tell who is responsible for what. The bullied kid receives a plastic bottle on the back of his head, turns around and 5 kids are laughing. Who did it? Nobody can tell. Expelling all five students is a solution, but may increase the bullying, because perhaps they're all innocent of the bottle throw - a sixth kid just did it and ran away... and when the five others come back, you bet they'll hate the sissy too.


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## Hand Banana (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> That still wouldn't justify the bullying. That behavior just shouldn't take place.



Actually, it does. Kid deserved every ass whooping coming to him.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

impersonal said:


> The problem with bullying, when it comes from plenty of different people, is that it's nearly impossible to tell who is responsible for what. The bullied kid receives a plastic bottle on the back of his head, turns around and 5 kids are laughing. Who did it? Nobody can tell. Expelling all five students is a solution, but may increase the bullying, because perhaps they're all innocent of the bottle throw - a sixth kid just did it and ran away.



I'm pretty certain he came across instances where people picked on him directly as well. Bullies like to intimidate. One thing that should also be considered is that the boy may not have wanted to tell who it was out of fear of something happening to him if he did, such as being attacked by the one he reported on.


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## Unlosing Ranger (May 4, 2012)

Fucker should have shocked one of them at least it would be a good reason to be expelled.


Freedan said:


> There's no law where a boy has to dress like a boy.



Disturbing the peace.
On that note.


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

The part about gays is still true. 
Most gays aren't transsexual. 
Go figure that they're not interested in dressing in the opposite gender's clothing.


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## Huey Freeman (May 4, 2012)

In a gang infested city, you would not be wearing blue in a bloods neighbourhood. Reason being you will be a mark man. The same reason you dont want to wear a dress as a male teen in a highschool of immature kids you just be putting a bullseye on yourself for bullying.

While myself I am disgusted and sad  how the school didnt really step in to do anything about the situation. I also am disgusted by the fact that bullying/making fun has become to throwing bottles at people. Really , I would probably taze their asses too.


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## baconbits (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> And how is dressing differently from the norm considered _completely_ unacceptable? There's no law where a boy has to dress like a boy. You're right that you can do something to protect yourself, like dressing more discreetly, but that line of thought can be applied to women in skimpy clothing (a woman can protect herself from rape if she doesn't wear skimpy dresses). Do you see why I made that comparison now?



I see your comparison, but I don't think it breaks my argument.  First, we're not talking about any laws here when we discuss dress - I already stated that this is advice, not anything else.

Second, wearing skimpy clothing will draw the wrong attention.  It does not mean that the victim deserves to get raped, just as wearing the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood does not mean you deserve to be murdered.  But if you know people will try to murder you if you wear green in X neighborhood you should take precautions.

The same with this kid.  It isn't hard to predict bullying in these types of situations.  But it can be toned down by following most social norms and gaining a social standing.



Freedan said:


> Bullying may not have the same traumatizing effects as rape by any means, but it's still something that needs careful consideration. What you seem to be doing here is putting responsibility on the child for the bullying when the school is just as responsible if not more so for not keeping it in check to begin with, particularly after their speech that everyone should be allowed to be free to dress as they like.



Well I've stated repeatedly that I'm not blaming the kid for the bullying, so I don't know what else I can do to convince you that this is not what I'm saying.



Freedan said:


> The boy did take matters into his own hands and he's getting expelled for it. I don't mean to say that he should've taken a stun gun to school. Yes, he should've toned it down and perhaps he did but it still wasn't enough (because the bullies would still remember him as the one in girl's clothing) and was still made fun of.



I'm pretty sure the kid did not "tone it down" because the article never states that he did so.



Freedan said:


> My point was that toning his clothing done after the first few instances wouldn't have helped him a great deal. The staff should've taken more responsibility for the boy even after telling him to tone it down instead of expecting everything to be fine after he did.



You're presuming that toning down his clothing wouldn't have helped - those who know the situation best, the staff members, seem to disagree with you.  I remember a kid in my own highschool who used to wear extremely tight pants.  When he actually bought a new pair of pants the mocking did slow down a bit.

I would suspect that some people are just idiots and will always be bullies.  But when you can make the target on your back smaller you should.



impersonal said:


> Isn't rape the same? Some behaviors make rape more likely. Same for assault, etc. That doesn't mean the victims deserve it, but it means they should be advised to abandon such behavior when possible. At least when avoiding the likely consequences is worth abandoning the behavior.



You have a point.  My only objection to the comparison is that I think some violations of social norm - for example acting like a jerk during someone's funeral - actually deserve an assault wheras no one ever deserves to get raped.


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## Isamaru (May 4, 2012)

The worst thing about bullying is the fact that nor the people who are the bullies or the person being bullied are mature enough to handle the situation their creating. Bullying is even hard to stand or tolerate even for one who is more mature or even older. For a kid in highschool to be bullied by what makes him feel comfortable has got to be something really horrible.

In this situation i do agree the kid could have dressed more "regular" to avoid conflict that way, because no one is telling him to change who he is just the way he looks. I do agree with the fact that everyone should feel free to dress however he or she likes but if its something thats causing you problems the smart thing would be to find a solution to that since its not a situation of pride but of your own safety in a way. 

The solution to just have a zero tolerance policy for bullying isnt something to be decided in such an easy manner because that would create a huge problem for the school with a lot of parents... kids are kids bullying should not be accepted but its not like your going to tell kids to stop bullying and they just accept whatever you say. I believe the school could have taken a more schoolwide approach immediatly and report to all parents in the school is possible that such situation is going on and each parent individually explain to their child why its not accepted to bully anyone. I believe everything starts at home so whatever happens parent are equally responsible for their children.

The mom should not have given the kid a stun gun specially if it illegal in the first place to have that at school that irresponsible from her part there always pepper spray in that case (dont know if law makes exceptions for this) or try to find a way to protect her son.

On the kids defence he has all the right to shoot the gun if he felt threatened self defence is a priority to anything imo and I am sure that anybody who feels like their in danger the natural thing to do is look for protection he had a stun gun and he used it, I am personally proud for him, he should have even shot a kid (great thing he didnt though ). But yeah he should not be excempted by the fact he had a stun gun and used on school grounds but he shouldnt be arrested for it either.

P.S. didnt re-read post for typos or erros  sorry


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## Sygurgh (May 4, 2012)

I’m sure she must have been desperate to even consider handing her son a stun gun. If she was worried for his safety and the school still refused to act, should she be the one to shoulder the responsibility?


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

Pepper Spray, Stun Guns, Knives, Brass Knuckles, or any other kind of tool that you can use to defend yourself is illegal in a school.


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

baconbits said:


> I see your comparison, but I don't think it breaks my argument.  First, we're not talking about any laws here when we discuss dress - I already stated that this is advice, not anything else.



You did imply it was completely unacceptable through your comparison when that's far from reality. It seems you understand that so I'm not going to continue this any further.



baconbits said:


> Second, wearing skimpy clothing will draw the wrong attention.  It does not mean that the victim deserves to get raped, just as wearing the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood does not mean you deserve to be murdered.  But if you know people will try to murder you if you wear green in X neighborhood you should take precautions.
> 
> The same with this kid.  It isn't hard to predict bullying in these types of situations.  But it can be toned down by following most social norms and gaining a social standing.



The difference is that he was going to school, which isn't quite as open as anywhere else. Sure, he should've been more discreet about his choice of fashion, but in a school that would encourage kids to be who they want to be and dress as they wish, tolerance should've been more widely encouraged among the kids, particularly the bullies.

Well I've stated repeatedly that I'm not blaming the kid for the bullying, so I don't know what else I can do to convince you that this is not what I'm saying.



baconbits said:


> I'm pretty sure the kid did not "tone it down" because the article never states that he did so.



That it didn't specify if the child did tone it down doesn't mean anything. What I'm saying is that whether or not he did, the damage to his own personal reputation was done, so while the school told him to tone it down, how much that would've avoided any further bullying is debatable.



baconbits said:


> You're presuming that toning down his clothing wouldn't have helped - *those who know the situation best, the staff members, seem to disagree with you*.  I remember a kid in my own highschool who used to wear extremely tight pants.  When he actually bought a new pair of pants the mocking did slow down a bit.



Yes, the same staff members who did little to nothing to quell the bullying even tho they knew it was happening. I question how much they did know about what was going on with the kids for them to be able to know toning down would with absolute certainty stop the bullying.


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## WT (May 4, 2012)

A gay getting stunned:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkw67GHlGgY[/YOUTUBE]


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## Sygurgh (May 4, 2012)

If the school refuses to defend him, he can only rely on himself. If he is weak and up against superior numbers, only tools can tip the scales. If the child lives in constant fear behind the walls of the school, it’s the system should that should be held responsible. It might not be conform to the laws, but they aren’t always right.


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## Soul (May 4, 2012)

The school sucks, and the fucker was using a dress.



Freedan said:


> That still wouldn't justify the bullying. That behavior just shouldn't take place.



I don't give a shit of what justifies it or not, nor the bullies.
If you get a dress and you are a man, you will be made fun of.

He could just have dropped the feminist bullshit.


This fuckers are kids, they don't give a shit of what you should and shouldn't do... not yet.
You either drop the dress, or show them that you can fucking kill them, even wearing girly clothes.


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## Isamaru (May 4, 2012)

Yeah the mom was desperate any parent would be, but I don't blame the police for seeing this as going against the established law. Like I said though kid had all his right to shoot the thing he was in "danger".

Although the point of focus should be the school who should be held accountable since its their fault the situation got that far.


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## baconbits (May 4, 2012)

Freedan said:


> You did imply it was completely unacceptable through your comparison when that's far from reality. It seems you understand that so I'm not going to continue this any further.



Fair enough.



Freedan said:


> The difference is that he was going to school, which isn't quite as open as anywhere else.



What do you mean by this?



Freedan said:


> Sure, he should've been more discreet about his choice of fashion, but in a school that would encourage kids to be who they want to be and dress as they wish, tolerance should've been more widely encouraged among the kids, particularly the bullies.



I'm sure it was encouraged.  In most schools in the US tolerance and acceptance are practically shoved down student's throats.  The problem isn't the encouraging of tolerance; the problem is that you won't get people to be more tolerant merely by lecturing them to do so.



Freedan said:


> That it didn't specify if the child did tone it down doesn't mean anything. What I'm saying is that whether or not he did, the damage to his own personal reputation was done, so while the school told him to tone it down, how much that would've avoided any further bullying is debatable.



Which is why we're debating it.  I argue that it would have cut into the bullying immediately and the school staffers agree with me.



Freedan said:


> Yes, the same staff members who did little to nothing to quell the bullying even tho they knew it was happening. I question how much they did know about what was going on with the kids for them to be able to know toning down would with absolute certainty stop the bullying.



It seems like you're presuming that something can completely stop bullying - nothing can stop people from being jerks.  We can only respond to their activity in the right ways.  There are times when the school's hands are tied.  I'll have to find out more about this case but rest assured: there is no golden bullet to slay bullying (other than smacking the bully right back, but some kids can't do that).


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## Patchouli (May 4, 2012)

Well, at least it was only a stun gun. And at least he didn't fire it at anyone.

School should have done more to prevent this though.


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## Brotha Yasuji (May 4, 2012)

I'm reminded of the case of that gay bully who got killed not too long ago after the school refused to put a stop to him bullying and humiliating his victim. We saw how that ended up and luckily no one died in this instance (If he had brought a real gun in that is).

It's amazing that the school didn't give a darn but now is reprimanding him for trying to defend himself. If I were that kid, I would just sue the fuck out of the school for failing to do it's job.


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## sadated_peon (May 4, 2012)

I wounder if people would be blaming the victim here if it was a Muslim girl getting harassment by other Muslims students because she was wearing pants at a public school. 

I wonder then if you would be having state paid for administers at the public school advising her to put on a burka so that she wouldn't be picked on, I wonder if you would have people blaming the girl for wearing pants.


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## Gunners (May 4, 2012)

If some woman was dressed in skimpy clothing around a pack of animals and ended up getting raped outside of sympathy and disgust I would think ''Are you fucking stupid. In today's society people are afraid to admit ugly truths, at the end of the day crime and cruelty exist in the world and if people want to get by they should take preventive measures to avoid becoming a victim. 

It is why people buy locks for their doors as opposed to thinking ''You know what stealing is wrong and it shouldn't happen because of that I will leave my doors wide open with neon lights telling people what I have on offer'.


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## Darth inVaders (May 4, 2012)

> bullies at Arsenal Technical High School in Indianapolis who would taunt him, *throw rocks and bottles at him* and follow him home


Getting hit in the head with rocks or bottles can be deadly, the context of this situation must be looked at - the zero tolerance is wrong in this situation as there is no justification to expel him - in fact there are 10 documented times that the kid went to the school for help as he was supposed to

There is also no justification for blaming the victim for his dress or excusing the bullies... they did more than just taunt and tease - once it gets physical like with rocks and bottles, there is no "kids will be kids" excuse


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> 1) the issue was not that he was being made fun of, but that he was threatened
> 
> 2) that's fucked up, you're a fucked up person



if you are impliying you wouldnt laugh or make fun of some guy dressed as a girl at school, then ur a hipocrite, or you dress as a girl yourself.

funny that i got all those negs, must be some butthurt crossdressing brigade.

keep living in that fantasy world you live in, where no one should be made fun of and we should accept all the weirdos out there. not gonna happen. 

and i already said im agaisnt the rock/bottle throwing. thats not legal. laughing at someone that brings it on himself im pretty much in favor of. this being one of the cases


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> if you are impliying you wouldnt laugh or make fun of some guy dressed as a girl at school, then ur a hipocrite, or you dress as a girl yourself.
> 
> funny that i got all those negs, must be some butthurt crossdressing brigade.
> 
> ...



And you're also in favor of doing it so much that they'll suicide and that you felt they deserve it. 



eHav said:


> oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl



That "fantasy world" can only be a fantasy when people like you exist.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

Toroxus said:


> And you're also in favor of doing it so much that they'll suicide and that you felt they deserve it.



if he suicides from getting made fun of dressing as a girl, and still keeps dressing as a girl then yeah. if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen. thats how it works.

its like saying i should be sorry about some guy that got killed dressed as the american flag in afghanistan or something. seriously what did he expect?

tell me now, wouldnt you laugh at some guy dressed as a girl in school? would you seriously find it acceptable and understand him?


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## Bioness (May 4, 2012)

I'm sure I don't need to express my opinion on this.

The teen did do something illegal and should have to deal with the consequences, however those who bullied him should also be punished for what they did to him. From the teen's perspective he likely brought the stun gun with him to protect himself which I feel should at least lessen his punishment.


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> if he suicides from getting made fun of dressing as a girl, and still keeps dressing as a girl then yeah. if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen. thats how it works.



It's not the people driving others to suicide, it's those people's fault for being a victim! 



> its like saying i should be sorry about some guy that got killed dressed as the american flag in afghanistan or something. seriously what did he expect?


1. This boy expected to be surrounded by human beings.
2. This boy expected to be a in a place of safety.
3. This boy expected to be protected from physical harm from responsible adults.

Shame that none of these three came together. Fortunately, the mother was there to avert tragedy. 



> tell me now, wouldnt you laugh at some guy dressed as a girl in school? would you seriously find it acceptable and understand him?



No, I wouldn't laugh, and you can go shove your ad hominem up your ass because I'm not a cross-dresser. And while your at it, maybe you could realize your driving someone to suicide over the fabric they wear. Why? Because you need to feel better about yourself? You need to fuel your superiority complex?

Seriously, you wish death upon another human being via suicide just for laughs to feel better about your own insecurities? How about we all laugh and point at the freak you are? Not many people find driving someone to suicide to be "acceptable and understandable," so enjoy your lonely miserable life because the world outside of your high-school isn't a world where you can hide behind adults and throw punches. In the real world, you throw a bottle at someone's head for what they wear, they'll put a bullet in your face. In the real world, you gather around someone and call them a freak, they'll stab you.

Because that's what the real world is about. It's not relying on others, it's relying on yourself. And when you're attacking someone, they'll defend themselves. And you won't know what to do with yourself when they don't run. You'll be like a deer in the headlights when they break your nose, or fire-bomb your house. You'll be crying to adults about how you're a victim and he's the bully. But no one will give a shit what you say because you've been a heartless inhumane predator that thinks it's fine when other people die.
When you mug that little cross-dresser in the back alley, no one is going to run to your aid when they pull out a gun.

And it'd be the best thing that ever happened to you. It'd wake you up, because you're the one in a fantasy world.

And no-one deserves death, but you would deserve it a lot more than some boy who wears a girl's sweatshirt to school.


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## Kahvehane (May 4, 2012)

Well, he went way too far with the stun gun... that was rather extreme no matter which way you slice it. However, I will say those assholes kind of had it coming.

I don't think what he did was necessarily right, but he _was_ somewhat justified in his response.

Somewhat.


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## On and On (May 4, 2012)

Mael said:


> Oh but you see, we coddle such psychological idiosyncrasies because for the darnedest reason, if we don't this will apparently traumatize the kid.  Horseshit.  I think people should realize lowering your chances of having rocks and bottles thrown at you from wearing heels as a man is a lot more logical than some inane quest to convince (or force) everyone to accept the oddity.  Rather it be temporary emotional trauma than long-lasting blunt force trauma.
> 
> This bullying crusade, while noble in intent, sometimes fails to realize that in some times the kid is just as accountable as the bullies.  By wearing drag in a school filled with hormonal and mentally immature individuals, you're being a target.  Sounds callous but there's a ring of truth to it.



Everything you said was true, too bad the bullies are still moreso in the wrong then the gay kid, and the bigger people in the wrong is STILL the school for allowing this shit. No one should just "have to put up with it" 

So, yea


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## Gunners (May 4, 2012)

Toroxus said:
			
		

> 1. This boy expected to be surrounded by human beings.
> 2. This boy expected to be a in a place of safety.
> 3. This boy expected to be protected from physical harm from responsible adults.


If those were his expectations he is a moron, this is the problem with idealistic individuals they cannot distinguish between _how things should work_ and _how things actually work_. 

Throughout the world children behaving like a bunch of savage pricks is consistent, it is not like the adult world where they will give you a pat on the shoulder and tell you someone more qualified came along. They will express their judgmental views because amongst their peers it is acceptable. 

Also what do you expect the teachers to do. I see people claiming that the students should have been suspended but there is the issue of proof, it is all good him saying ''I am being bullied by a group of people'' but when the accused say ''We have done no such thing'' (and there is no evidence to the contradict those statements) all they can do is keep a watchful eye and issue warnings.


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## Ausorrin (May 4, 2012)

His ass needs to be expelled. Although kids shouldn't be bullying ,he brought this one upon himself


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## kazuri (May 4, 2012)

If he should be expelled for using a non-deadly weapon, the other kids should be in jail for assault with deadly ones(rocks + bottles)


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## Gunners (May 4, 2012)

You wouldn't go to prison for throwing rocks or bottles at someone, not unless you actually hurt them.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

Toroxus said:


> It's not the people driving others to suicide, it's those people's fault for being a victim!
> 
> 
> 1. This boy expected to be surrounded by human beings.
> ...



not caring about some idiot suiciding =\= wishing someone death. 

the rest is just more mumbo jumbo about your perfect fantasy world. im not the one living in it, you are. i can laugh about whatever the fuck i want, and there's nothing wrong about that. but apparently those people that put themselves out there to be made fun of are entitled to react with violence is that it? that will wake me up? thats the "real world"? you are just giving me more and more reasons to keep saying that those morons are in the wrong. They do stupid shit, they get made fun of, they over react/suicide. it just shows they are the ones that arent normal. they are the ones that are messed up in the head. not us who laugh at them. do you think i pitty them? do i think i care a single bit about those people? do you think i care about some dude that suicides becuase he cant handle being made fun when he crossdresses? i dont. most people dont. most people will laugh at the guy wearing women's clothes.

why are you so butthurt about others getting made fun of? does it happen to you often? wanna talk about it? are you going to suicide? or are you the kind that goes around on a rampage shooting people because you got made fun of at school? since thats "real world" for you


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## Drums (May 4, 2012)

It's the school's fault. Why on earth didnt they feel compelled to do something at all to restrain the bullying? Since the bullied subject was underage, the responsibility fell on the school staff and authority.
If they had done something about it, the kid wouldnt have had to resort to the stun gun. And to be honest, I might have used it too if I had been in his place.


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## Hand Banana (May 4, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> It's the school's fault. Why on earth didnt they feel compelled to do something at all to restrain the bullying? Since the bullied subject was underage, the responsibility fell on the school staff and authority.
> If they had done something about it, the kid wouldnt have had to resort to the stun gun. And to be honest, I might have used it too if I had been in his place.



School needs proof before they can act. it needed to be on tape.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> It's the school's fault. Why on earth didnt they feel compelled to do something at all to restrain the bullying? Since the bullied subject was underage, the responsibility fell on the school staff and authority.
> If they had done something about it, the kid wouldnt have had to resort to the stun gun. And to be honest, I might have used it too if I had been in his place.



well, would you dress as a girl and go to school like that?


 at getting negs from the forum gay brigade

seriously get the pole out of your asses, ur not special and this aint about gays. this is about an idiot not wanting to be made fun of when he dresses as a girl at school


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## Mathias124 (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> seriously get the pole out of your asses, ur not special and this aint about gays. *this is about an idiot not wanting to be made fun of when he dresses as a girl at school*



Truth 10char


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## Drums (May 4, 2012)

@Hand Banana

Well, in the article it says that the teen was getting costantly bullied and part of that happened during school times. So, how come didnt a single teacher ever catch a glimpse of that? Sounds more like they could care less, to me. It aint like it's the first time this happens.

@ehav So what? I didnt post about what the teen did. He's a teen, he may be confused or misguided or neither. He might be screwed in the head for all we know. Or he might not be. What matters here is that the adults responsible for guarding over the students at school didn't do shit to help.


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## Gunners (May 4, 2012)

> Well, in the article it says that the teen was getting costantly bullied and part of that happened during school times. So, how come didnt a single teacher ever catch a glimpse of that? Sounds more like they could care less, to me. It aint like it's the first time this happens.


Because kids make a conscious effort of bullying students when authority figures are not around.


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## Casyle (May 4, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Because kids make a conscious effort of bullying students when authority figures are not around.



Not to mention some authority figures just don't give a damn, I ran into that a lot in Middle School here.


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## eHav (May 4, 2012)

StrawHeart said:


> @Hand Banana
> 
> Well, in the article it says that the teen was getting costantly bullied and part of that happened during school times. So, how come didnt a single teacher ever catch a glimpse of that? Sounds more like they could care less, to me. It aint like it's the first time this happens.
> 
> @ehav So what? I didnt post about what the teen did. He's a teen, he may be confused or misguided or neither. He might be screwed in the head for all we know. Or he might not be. What matters here is that the adults responsible for guarding over the students at school didn't do shit to help.



if you notice i made no remarks about the adults and the school staff. i just pointed out that unlike some people here seem to think, making fun of a 17yr old guy dressed as a girl at school is the most normal thing in the world, and he should know that and avoid it. or is he so socially inept that he doesnt understand that?

and apparently that comes off as me wishing people's deaths, living in a fantasy world, deserving a beating or worse, having been bullied at school, being a troll etc etc.


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## Hand Banana (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> and apparently that comes off as me wishing people's deaths, living in a fantasy world, deserving a beating or worse, having been bullied at school, being a troll etc etc.



Is this your first day in the cafe? You been around long enough to see the judgmental bullshit that goes around here.


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## Aion Hysteria (May 4, 2012)

Well extreme things to happen when you fail to fix problems.
The school is at fault.​


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## Hand Banana (May 4, 2012)

DivineHalo said:


> Well extreme things to happen when you fail to fix problems.
> The school is at fault.​



Over-exaggerate much?​


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## EJ (May 4, 2012)

Well it would make sense. He fired a stun gun and could of killed/hurt someone.


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## WT (May 4, 2012)

On a serious note, I side with the kid. Anyone who throws rocks and bottles at someone else deserves to be stunned. Expulsion will most likely ruin the kids life which would be a shame considering he was only defending himself.


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## EJ (May 4, 2012)

He should of fought back.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (May 4, 2012)

Its the society's fault... our world is turning into shit...
That guy probably is inspired by Justin Bieber and the others think they are wrestlers...


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## Roman (May 4, 2012)

eHav said:


> if you notice i made no remarks about the adults and the school staff. i just pointed out that unlike some people here seem to think, making fun of a 17yr old guy dressed as a girl at school is the most normal thing in the world, and he should know that and avoid it. or is he so socially inept that he doesnt understand that?
> 
> and apparently that comes off as me wishing people's deaths, living in a fantasy world, deserving a beating or worse, having been bullied at school, being a troll etc etc.



Maybe you don't wish someone's death, but you wouldn't you feel the least bit guilty or remorseful that someone you "made fun" of every minute of every day that a teacher wasn't around ended up killing himself because he couldn't take it anymore, neither from you or from anyone else who was doing what you actually would do to someone?

Maybe you don't wish for someone like the boy in the article to die, but you certainly wouldn't have a problem driving such a person to suicide because hey, it's not your fault for being inconsiderate, selfish and uncaring for others, it's his fault for being weak but still tried to be who he wanted to be. That's what Toroxus was pointing out.

Seriously, you've said how people like that boy in the article SHOULD be laughed at and continue saying that it's normal for that to happen. Are you trying to say that you'd constantly humiliate someone because that's what everyone does? Do you have a single shred of individual judgement?


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## Archangel Michael (May 4, 2012)

1) He shouldn't be bullied because he's gay. No one deserved to be bullied.

2) He should have never used the stun gun because he could have kill someone, though he was trying to protect himself.

3) The school should have paid more attention to the bullying.


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## Mintaka (May 4, 2012)

Mael said:


> Oh but you see, we coddle such psychological idiosyncrasies because for the darnedest reason, if we don't this will apparently traumatize the kid.  Horseshit.  I think people should realize lowering your chances of having rocks and bottles thrown at you from wearing heels as a man is a lot more logical than some inane quest to convince (or force) everyone to accept the oddity.  Rather it be temporary emotional trauma than long-lasting blunt force trauma.
> 
> This bullying crusade, while noble in intent, sometimes fails to realize that in some times the kid is just as accountable as the bullies.  By wearing drag in a school filled with hormonal and mentally immature individuals, you're being a target.  Sounds callous but there's a ring of truth to it.


Sigh....

As true as it is that he is making himself a target these asswads need to also learn that they can't do this kind of shit.  This is what helps to reinforce the belief that this kind of hatred is acceptable to these kids, and afterwords they become adults.

They need to be punished as well, and severly for letting such a thing escalate.  If you're going to tell this kid to conform ((You could ask him to be more subtle about it, there is a difference between wanting people to know you are gay and being so extravagant about it that you put yourself into danger because of a bigoted society of kids.))then you need to tell the bullies to quit it as well.

Letting one side go free and damning the other only fuels the fucking problem.


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## kazuri (May 4, 2012)

> You wouldn't go to prison for throwing rocks or bottles at someone, not unless you actually hurt them.



First I said should. Just because you wouldn't normally* doesnt mean you shouldnt.

*Second, you would, depending on who you threw the rocks and bottles at, even if you didnt hit them. Try it with a cop or politician and lets see what happens.


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## Kahvehane (May 4, 2012)

Gunners said:


> You wouldn't go to prison for throwing rocks or bottles at someone, not unless you actually hurt them.



Tell that to a guy I know who threw a rock at a cop.


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## hyakku (May 4, 2012)

This...might be the first time I'm on the "troll" side of an argument (not that I think eHav is trolling). I completely agree with E, this kid's a fucking idiot. You dress in drag going to school and DON'T expect to be ostracized?

As for the bottle throwing, that sounds like American media talk for someone throw a plastic bottle at his head once. Being followed from home as well. I'm not saying this is right, or that things wouldn't escalate, but if he had been beat up, hurt, or harmed in anyway I'm sure that would've been the FIRST thing he said to administrators, not "Some guy followed me home throwing coke bottles at me and making fun of me."

Then he brings a fucking taser into school!? Honestly I think I'd be more shocked if I was the bully and he pulled out a taser, only because his behavior so clearly suggests he wants the attention.

And as callous as this sound, I also agree that if this kid kills himself, I don't really think his high school classmates should feel bad. Yes, ostracizing someone is bad, but this isn't even unwarranted man. 

I really wanna know how kids get "bullied" though. I feel like in HS I knew a lot of the would be "bulliers" and yea I guess we fucked with some kids some, but I never heard or saw anyone shouting, "HEY, Let's go fuck Andrew up because we hate his character and want him to suicide!" It was more like, "damn that guy stays picking his nose and won't shut the fuck up talking. Let's go fuck with him."


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## Hand Banana (May 4, 2012)

hyakku said:


> This...might be the first time I'm on the "troll" side of an argument (not that I think eHav is trolling)



Welcome to the troll side. On the left are cookies and punch. Bootleg screening of Avengers starts at eight. And 10 bucks gets you a take home copy. Enjoy your stay and let me know if you have any concerns.


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## Revolution (May 4, 2012)

This may be a blessing in disguise.  I hope that boy gets "kicked out" so he can pursue a normal life elsewhere.  (then again, I live in a highly populated area, don't know if he has other school options).


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## Toroxus (May 4, 2012)

"You must be suicidal or really bullied if you think suicide and bully are bad."

[sp][/sp]


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## EJ (May 4, 2012)

For the people who are saying "He should of known he would get made fun of"

I sort of laughed with my friends when they teased this one kid who started dressing like a girl (their jokes were so stupid) in my high schoo. 

but I never went up to him, picked on him, or bullied him. I never went out of my way to make his life a living hell. So saying "He should know better" is a poor excuse, kids shouldn't go out of their way to harass/bully someone for who they are.


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## Skywalker (May 4, 2012)

Another one of these cases? You think kids would stop after all the suicides and whatnot bullying has caused lately, but I suppose that's not the case.

Then there's always the useless school staff that just sits by and watches.


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## Mary212 (May 4, 2012)

wait, the kid was dressing up in female clothes, and expected to not be made fun of? seriously


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## Mael (May 4, 2012)

Skywalker said:


> Another one of these cases? You think kids would stop after all the suicides and whatnot bullying has caused lately, but I suppose that's not the case.
> 
> Then there's always the useless school staff that just sits by and watches.



So basically we're expecting kids to stop their rather predatory behavior?  Sorry but this is part of nature and we're a part of nature.  The best we can do is start to monitor smartly.


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## fiercefire (May 4, 2012)

Wow, I'm not sure how many will believe this but I'm currently a junior at the school they're talking about, I can probably find out more.
I don't actually know Darnell Young but I can tell you that did not know anything about this until our principal came on the announcements and started ranting about how anyone being caught bullying would be expelled. I personally never saw any bullying, but our school has a large campus so I was probably never around and I Know there are a openly gay students at our schools but I've again I've never seen anyone parading around in any outlandish outfit,the gays i Know might wear skinny jeans and some bracelets but nothing gaudy
Overall I'm pretty ashamed this is happening at my school, i hope the guy is not expelled.


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## emROARS (May 5, 2012)

Lol we have a guy in out college who acts similar. He wear heels, the female uniform (he does hairdressing and beauty) and carries a giant handbag around. He also tans and wears a lot of makeup.

Do people bully him? Of course not, actually he's quite popular.

Then again, I know we're a minority when it comes to this but the bullying he went through still doesn't make it right. It's only clothes JFC.

But the stun gun? Yeah that was stupid.


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## hyakku (May 5, 2012)

fiercefire said:


> Wow, I'm not sure how many will believe this but I'm currently a junior at the school they're talking about, I can probably find out more.
> I don't actually know Darnell Young but I can tell you that did not know anything about this until our principal came on the announcements and started ranting about how anyone being caught bullying would be expelled. I personally never saw any bullying, but our school has a large campus so I was probably never around and I Know there are a openly gay students at our schools but I've again I've never seen anyone parading around in any outlandish outfit,the gays i Know might wear skinny jeans and some bracelets but nothing gaudy
> Overall I'm pretty ashamed this is happening at my school, i hope the guy is not expelled.



Please do, I'd be interested in getting the full story.

I also should say that I should've said if he did kill himself (which hopefully he won't), his classmates shouldn't feel responsible for that. 



> "You must be suicidal or really bullied if you think suicide and bully are bad."


.

Grammar.


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## kidgogeta (May 5, 2012)

You can't be idealistic when it comes to your own well being in school. The problem isn't that the kid is gay. It's that he failed to adapt and fit in and so he became a target.He wouldn't be allowed to dress that way in a professional environment so if you coddle him now how will he survive? Fitting in is a also a tool you need to do well in society unless you are a genius of some sort. He can be himself when hes an adult who's in full control of what goes on his life.


You are there to get your education and if you really feel entitled to being able to express yourself at school you better think about if it will cause a disturbance and the consequences that go along with that


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## Petes12 (May 5, 2012)

eHav said:


> if you are impliying you wouldnt laugh or make fun of some guy dressed as a girl at school, then ur a hipocrite, or you dress as a girl yourself.
> 
> funny that i got all those negs, must be some butthurt crossdressing brigade.
> 
> ...



no matter what i think of how someone dresses or, whatever, I wouldn't go out of my way to make fun of him... or follow him or throw bottles. Everyone saying 'oh this is his own fault' is an idiot. Yes, of course, he should expect people to be asses, but that doesn't mean that the people being jerks are no longer responsible for their actions or that their bullying, which obviously got extreme since he brought a stungun to school, is ok.


----------



## God (May 5, 2012)

- Dude definitely should not have come to school dressing as a girl. We all want to have our idealistic "I can express/myself do as I want" whims, but this was not one of the appropriate times. He's free to walk on the sidewalk in drag, or go to a drag bar, however, in a school environment this transparent attempt at "LOOK HOW UNIQUE I AM" is incitative at best. The boy shares his role in attracting unwarranted and unnecessary attention.

- Throwing rocks and bottles at anyone's head is unacceptable in this situation, or really any bullying situation, period. Although he played his part in being a complete fucking idiot, the boy also had every right to defend himself from violence, and he did. He shouldn't be expelled for using the stun gun, he should be prohibited from provoking hormonal teens by dragging it up at school.

- School is retarded. "He shouldn't be dressing like a chick, so fuck it." Gimme a break. Should've done their fucking jobs when he brought them the complaints the first 10 times. Expel yourselves, you morons.


----------



## Mintaka (May 5, 2012)

Flow said:


> For the people who are saying "He should of known he would get made fun of"
> 
> I sort of laughed with my friends when they teased this one kid who started dressing like a girl (their jokes were so stupid) in my high schoo.
> 
> but I never went up to him, picked on him, or bullied him. I never went out of my way to make his life a living hell. So saying "He should know better" is a poor excuse, kids shouldn't go out of their way to harass/bully someone for who they are.


Unfortunately you do not represent all of kids.

I agree they shouldn't.  However many people are bastards.


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## EvilMoogle (May 5, 2012)

I can understand that he'd be made fun of for going to school dressed in drag.  There's tons of room to argue about what amount of harassment is acceptable between kids.

Throwing rocks and bottles isn't acceptable at any level though.  That's assault and the kids that did it should be jailed.

Legally the kid shouldn't have brought the stun gun to school, I understand he should be punished for that.  Whether that punishment should be expulsion for a first-offense?  I don't know.  Considering he only used it in self defense (and even then didn't even hurt anyone) I'd probably argue for leniency.


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## Kue (May 5, 2012)

Meanwhile, back in the 1950s:

"Well, of course the white man was going to be made fun of for marrying a black woman, what was he expecting? He should have known it was coming, and he should deal with it."


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## God (May 5, 2012)

Cold Dish said:


> Meanwhile, back in the 1950s:
> 
> "Well, of course the white man was going to be made fun of for marrying a black woman, what was he expecting? He should have known it was coming, and he should deal with it."



Lol at comparing the intolerance of natural skin color to making some attention-seeking statement at school.

Women have a limit to how much skin they can show at school, guys can't walk around with their pants on the floor, this should be against rules as well.


----------



## Stunna (May 5, 2012)

Making fun of someone is one thing, but to threaten their well being? The boy's punishment is too severe for the situation. When no one else will defend you, you've no choice but to do so yourself.

His cross-dressing is an irrelevant factor. He was threatened. They had no right to do such a thing.


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## EvilMoogle (May 5, 2012)

Yeah, "made fun of" is one thing.  Attacked is a whole different story.

An example:
A kid being made fun of because they wore one blue-striped sock and one green-striped sock to school?  Okay depending on the level of "made fun of."

The same kid attacked by gang members in school because his miss-matched socks are rival gang colors?  Utterly not acceptable on any level.


----------



## Kue (May 5, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Lol at comparing the intolerance of natural skin color to making some attention-seeking statement at school.



How was it attention seeking? The bullies were the ones that decided to give it attention.



> Women have a limit to how much skin they can show at school, guys can't walk around with their pants on the floor, this should be against rules as well.



You are mistaking fashion sense with identity here.  I wouldn't be suprised if the gay male was actually a transgendered person thinking about transitioning.


----------



## God (May 5, 2012)

Cold Dish said:


> How was it attention seeking? The bullies were the ones that decided to give it attention.



Because he went to school dressed in drag, a place where immature hormonal teens understand how each gender is supposed to dress and look for people to pick on.

He put on a dress with neon lights reading "Look at me guys, I'm gay and different."

Attention-seeking.



> You are mistaking fashion sense with identity here.  I wouldn't be suprised if the gay male was actually a transgendered person thinking about transitioning.



...? Identity is irrelevant as far as school goes. It's why some places have uniforms. It's also why there is a dress code. You don't fucking dress in drag at school. Let me repeat, you don't fucking dress in drag at school when you are aware what you will provoke people.

It's not like you can simply walk past some guy at the office in make-up, hoop earrings, a corset and a purse, and go "Oh he's just being himself." Maybe one day we will get to the point where everyone understands that a man can't necessarily be a man, but not right now.

He is free to have his own identity on his own time, but not in a place of formal conduct. What if a girl walked into school one day in a bikini and was like "Please respect my identity as a beach-goer," or a guy came in nude and was like "Please respect my identity as a nudist who is unashamed of his natural body?"

There is a limit to everything, and this crosses that limit.


----------



## Stunna (May 5, 2012)

Does attention-seeking warrant physical assault?


----------



## God (May 5, 2012)

Cubey said:


> - Dude definitely should not have come to school dressing as a girl. We all want to have our idealistic "I can express/myself do as I want" whims, but this was not one of the appropriate times. *He's free to walk on the sidewalk in drag, or go to a drag bar, however, in a school environment this transparent attempt at "LOOK HOW UNIQUE I AM" is incitative at best.* The boy shares his role in attracting unwarranted and unnecessary attention.
> 
> - *Throwing rocks and bottles at anyone's head is unacceptable in this situation, or really any bullying situation, period.* Although he played his part in being a complete fucking idiot, the boy also had every right to defend himself from violence, and he did. *He shouldn't be expelled for using the stun gun, he should be prohibited from provoking hormonal teens by dragging it up at school.*
> 
> - School is retarded. "He shouldn't be dressing like a chick, so fuck it." Gimme a break. Should've done their fucking jobs when he brought them the complaints the first 10 times. Expel yourselves, you morons.



No it does not.


----------



## Stunna (May 5, 2012)

Ah. Forgive me, didn't feel like re-reading atm


----------



## Kue (May 5, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Because he went to school dressed in drag, a place where immature hormonal teens understand how each gender is supposed to dress and look for people to pick on.



If it's not for people like him, things wouldn't change however.  Believe it or not, look back at any time a minority (whether it be racial, gender, or economic minorities) this was the only way things change, by someone saying "fuck you" to the system.



> He put on a dress with neon lights reading "Look at me guys, I'm gay and different."
> 
> Attention-seeking.



This wasn't what happened in the Roman Empire or in Shakespearean times where women weren't allowed to act in plays, and the female roles were played by men.  It is only attention-seeking in our society.



> ...? Identity is irrelevant as far as school goes. It's why some places have uniforms. It's also why there is a dress code. You don't fucking dress in drag at school. Let me repeat, you don't fucking dress in drag at school when you are aware what you will provoke people.



What I've said in my first reply also applies here.



> It's not like you can simply walk past some guy at the office in make-up, hoop earrings, a corset and a purse, and go "Oh he's just being himself." Maybe one day we will get to the point where everyone understands that a man can't necessarily be a man, but not right now.



That process will stagnate if people just decide to accomodate society's prejudice.  Look at history again.



> He is free to have his own identity on his own time, but not in a place of formal conduct. What if a girl walked into school one day in a bikini and was like "Please respect my identity as a beach-goer," or a guy came in nude and was like "Please respect my identity as a nudist who is unashamed of his natural body?"



I wouldn't care for public nudity, I'm not an egotistical person that dictates how other people should live their lives.  Besides, the boy could have crossdressed outside of the school and the effect would have been the same.  The bullies would have found out what he does in his own time.



> There is a limit to everything, and this crosses that limit.



I'm glad we have people that don't care for limits, or else we would still be in the Dark Ages.


----------



## EJ (May 5, 2012)

Stunna said:


> Making fun of someone is one thing, but to threaten their well being? The boy's punishment is too severe for the situation. When no one else will defend you, you've no choice but to do so yourself.
> 
> His cross-dressing is an irrelevant factor. He was threatened. They had no right to do such a thing.



The system is flawed. It's a shame he was bullied for expressing who he was, but when it's all said and done, he should of known better not to bring/shoot a stun gun in school.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

Cold Dish said:


> If it's not for people like him, things wouldn't change however.  Believe it or not, look back at any time a minority (whether it be racial, gender, or economic minorities) this was the only way things change, by someone saying "fuck you" to the system.



Nope. Blacks got equal right via civil disobedience. That is to take intolerance, and make people realize how wrong they are. In this case, he shot a gun.

And also you can't change the way people think when they have been conditioned to think men should dress as men, and women should dress as women. I have to say that it isn't the most illogical notion to simply put on some fucking pants if you have a penis, btw.



> This wasn't what happened in the Roman Empire or in Shakespearean times where women weren't allowed to act in plays, and the female roles were played by men.  It is only attention-seeking in our society.



Faulty analogy. I said that drag should not be allowed in a place of formal conduct. Well, if an actor is dressing as a women where he plays a women at a theater, then he is in fact dressing appropriately for his job or what have you. This is not the same as walking around in heels and a bra while at school (exaggeration obv).



> What I've said in my first reply also applies here.



It actually doesn't and you've failed to address the point. I can dress as the statue of liberty if i want to on MY time, or if my place of conduct allows it. I've seen people dressed as hotdogs on the street handing out fliers. This isn't disturbing the peace or misconduct because they're actual employed for that purpose. But you can't go into work or school as a hotdog.

It isn't appropriate for a guy to dress as a woman, and no amount of "Aw he's just confused, etc etc" will change that shit.



> That process will stagnate if people just decide to accomodate society's prejudice.  Look at history again.



Yeah, you know what, no. Don't use the word prejudice for this. Prejudice implies the intolerance of a person for natural things given to them, such as ethnicity, or nationality, or what have you. Making fun of crossdressers isn't in the same context, otherwise, the word could be abused for anyone. You're prejudiced against Naruto fans. You're prejudiced against masturbators. Disliking someone for something they like or do is not the same kind of prejudice that "history" has fought for.

Equality for drag queens? I feel ridiculous just for typing that. People can go to drag bars for their own activities, don't disrupt everyday life for some half-assed public statement.



> I wouldn't care for public nudity, I'm not an egotistical person that dictates how other people should live their lives.  Besides, the boy could have crossdressed outside of the school and the effect would have been the same.  The bullies would have found out what he does in his own time.



And then he would have had no share of the blame for what happened. If _that_ were the case, then I wouldn't believe the kid had a part in this entire situation, but as it stands, he kind of brought the attention of idiots on himself, and made people side less with him by coming to school "expressing himself."



> I'm glad we have people that don't care for limits, or else we would still be in the Dark Ages.



? No we wouldn't. Evolution keeps us progressing throughout time. Nature could have kept us as brainless bacteria if it wanted. But no, we will continue to progress because it has already been written.


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

In order to avoid bullying, the kid should of stopped wearing girl outfits. That in itself would of made things easier for him. 

It's a shame though, those fucking idiots should know better than to exploit one person for who they are. People can't honestly say "They are kids, so it's understandable." Like I said, I've known people like this in my school and I never teased/bullied them.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

Maybe I'm biased cuz I've seen this from personal experience, but fuck let me tell you guys a story.

There was once this Chinese or some asian kid at my high school. I think his name was Mikey or some dumb shit. But anyways, you could tell from a glance the kid was gay which I could really give less of a shit about. Everyone knew he was gay. He had his hair died blonde or some shit, and oh my God just what. He carried around a purse and walked exactly like a girl, and I'm pretty sure I saw some limp-wristed action going on too. Still wasn't a problem. But then I found out that he would actually have catfights... with girls... because they talked gossip about him.

I really don't know how to fucking describe it. He came to boys' gym once and jesus christ it could not have been more awkward. Entire floor was dead as a mouse, and I cannot believe no one called out any jeers.

Right, now take that, and put him in a dress, and see if you don't get a fucking recipe for disaster.

I can understand the kid may not have been like the kid I knew, but it is just not acceptable by some people for a a man to cross dress.


----------



## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Nope. Blacks got equal right via civil disobedience. That is to take intolerance, and make people realize how wrong they are. In this case, he shot a gun.



We were talking about him dressing in a feminine manner, not about him shooting a gun.  I think the way he dressed was civil disobedience, the gun was taking it too far.



> And also you can't change the way people think when they have been conditioned to think men should dress as men, and women should dress as women.



You can't?



> I have to say that it isn't the most illogical notion to simply put on some fucking pants if you have a penis, btw.



It would be amusing to see you defend this notion.



> Faulty analogy. I said that drag should not be allowed in a place of  conduct. Well, if an actor is dressing as a women where he plays a women at a theater, then he is in fact dressing appropriately for his job or what have you. This is not the same as walking around in heels and a bra while at school (exaggeration obv).



You didn't understand the point of my statement.  I simply was showing you that it didn't always garner attention, not that they had any similarities.



> It actually doesn't and you've failed to address the point. I can dress as the statue of liberty if i want to on MY time, or if my place of conduct allows it. I've seen people dressed as hotdogs on the street handing out fliers. This isn't disturbing the peace or misconduct because they're actual employed for that purpose. But you can't go into work or school as a hotdog.
> 
> It isn't appropriate for a guy to dress as a woman, and no amount of "Aw he's just confused, etc etc" will change that shit.



You've made an assumption that the male was a drag queen, he could have been considering a transitioning for all we know.  Dressing up as a hot dog is much different than wearing a dress Cubey.  I don't see any signifigance of a piece of flesh between your legs deciding whether you put on a skirt or not.  All human beings should be allowed to wear a dress, a piece of flesh shouldn't take that away.

Why is it not appropiate for a man to dress as a woman? Who made you the fashion police?



> Yeah, you know what, no. Don't use the word prejudice for this. Prejudice implies the intolerance of a person for natural things given to them, such as ethnicity, or nationality, or what have you. Making fun of crossdressers isn't in the same context, otherwise, the word could be abused for anyone. You're prejudiced against Naruto fans. You're prejudiced against masturbators. Disliking someone for something they like or do is not the same kind of prejudice that "history" has fought for.
> 
> Equality for drag queens? I feel ridiculous just for typing that. People can go to drag bars for their own activities, don't disrupt everyday life for some half-assed public statement.



What I've said about transitioning applies here.  I have a feeling you are avoiding this, because you know the science will be quick to shut you down if you said gender identity has absolutely no natural influence.  You are also playing a semantics game here, which is not a real argument.



> No we wouldn't. Evolution keeps us progressing throughout time. Nature could have kept us as brainless bacteria if it wanted. But no, we will continue to progress because it has already been written.



Yes you are right, and you know what keeps it progressing? Kids like the ones we are talking about.


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Maybe I'm biased cuz I've seen this from personal experience, but fuck let me tell you guys a story.
> 
> There was once this Chinese or some asian kid at my high school. I think his name was Mikey or some dumb shit. But anyways, you could tell from a glance the kid was gay which I could really give less of a shit about. Everyone knew he was gay. He had his hair died blonde or some shit, and oh my God just what. He carried around a purse and walked exactly like a girl, and I'm pretty sure I saw some limp-wristed action going on too. Still wasn't a problem. But then I found out that he would actually have catfights... with girls... because they talked gossip about him.
> 
> ...




It's a lot to do with social stigma. It's good no one made fun of him (due to the fact he was feminine)

In my school, I'm pretty sure he would of been (rightfully imo)jumped eventually if he had fought girls because they gossiped about him.


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## Taco (May 6, 2012)

At least the mom's cool about it lol


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## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Maybe I'm biased cuz I've seen this from personal experience, but fuck let me tell you guys a story.
> 
> There was once this Chinese or some asian kid at my high school. I think his name was Mikey or some dumb shit. But anyways, you could tell from a glance the kid was gay which I could really give less of a shit about. Everyone knew he was gay. He had his hair died blonde or some shit, and oh my God just what. He carried around a purse and walked exactly like a girl, and I'm pretty sure I saw some limp-wristed action going on too. Still wasn't a problem. But then I found out that he would actually have catfights... with girls... because they talked gossip about him.



It seems you were uncomfortable about him before the catfights began.  What is wrong with his mannerisms? If you dislike him for fighting with women, then say that, but the other things you have said were unneccesary.



> I really don't know how to fucking describe it. He came to boys' gym once and jesus christ it could not have been more awkward. Entire floor was dead as a mouse, and I cannot believe no one called out any jeers.



Why was it awkward? Did he start hitting on you guys or something?



> Right, now take that, and put him in a dress, and see if you don't get a fucking recipe for disaster.
> 
> I can understand the kid may not have been like the kid I knew, but it is just not acceptable by some people for a a man to cross dress.



I fail to see why he was so bad, other than the fact he fought physically with women.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

Cold Dish said:


> We were talking about him dressing in a feminine manner, not about him shooting a gun.  I think the way he dressed was civil disobedience, the gun was taking it too far.



That is a fair point. However, when Gandi used civil disobedience, when MLK used civil disobedience, they both faced punishment for their actions. So you either believe he should endure this "intolerance" so later generations can prosper from it, or you believe he shouldn't be punished and we should put off whatever "this" is for longer.



> You can't?



A person themselves will change the way they think. Others' arguments usually serve very little by way of changing an opinion. Don't you ever think debates kind of go like this:

"Here's what I think and why. I think you should agree."
"I know that's how you feel, but listen to what I think. You should change you mind."
"Yeah I know, but here's some more reasons why I think what I think."
"So anyways, this other evidence I have for my belief is"

When it should go.

"Here's what I think."
"Hmm, ok. Here's what I think."
"Interesting, but I actually think mine makes a little more sense and here's why."
"Well, fuck, that actually makes more sense than my shit. Color me convinced."




> It would be amusing to see you defend this notion.



Doubt it.



> You didn't understand the point of my statement.  I simply was showing you that it didn't always garner attention, not that they had any similarities.



The analogy in your statement was inaccurate. It would ofc not garner attention when the men are acting as women, not actually being women. In fact, all your analogy does is point out that even the most "intellectual" of times and places, like classic Greece had their own prejudices and drawbacks. You mentioned women not being allowed to act. So that would mean women were still inferior to men at that point, unlike today's society. So in that case, all your talk about "we may as well be living in the Dark Ages/1950's" is for naught because EVERY episteme has their share of stupidity. If you can even classify this as stupidity that is.



> You've made an assumption that the male was a drag queen, he could have been considering a transitioning for all we know.  Dressing up as a hot dog is much different than wearing a dress Cubey.  I don't see any signifigance of a piece of flesh between your legs deciding whether you put on a skirt or not.  All human beings should be allowed to wear a dress, a piece of flesh shouldn't take that away.



There is a dividing line between genders. Those dividing lines are our sexual organs. I don't actually think clothes need to have some revolution over them. Not a political weapon, so don't use it as ammo for an idiotic movement. It's simple, if you're a man, dress as one. If you aren't, don't. If you feel like a woman but aren't, get a change, and put on a skirt. Isn't really that hard.



> Why is it not appropiate for a man to dress as a woman? Who made you the fashion police?



You're the one who said this is about identity, not fashion 



> What I've said about transitioning applies here.  I have a feeling you are avoiding this, because you know the science will be quick to shut you down if you said gender identity has absolutely no natural influence.



He can get a sex change if he wants. Article said he was gay though.

Anyways, if he really feels like a woman, he could think of it as a uniform. He needs to wear pants in school, similar to how you'd need to wear a uniform in private school or work.



> You are also playing a semantics game here, which is not a real argument.



I'm not playing a semantics game. I'm not going about things on a technicality, in fact you are. Everything I said applies and you chose not to address it. You can still address my paragraph on it though. I'll just take it as a personal concession otherwise.

This is not prejudice.



> Yes you are right, and you know what keeps it progressing? Kids like the ones we are talking about.



Nah. With the way the world is today, it definitely has to be evolution itself.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

Cold Dish said:


> It seems you were uncomfortable about him before the catfights began.  What is wrong with his mannerisms? If you dislike him for fighting with women, then say that, but the other things you have said were unneccesary.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not homophobic. I know a gay chick and she's one of the coolest people I know.

But anyways, that's the thing. His mannerisms were so strange that he may have actually been a girl. Seriously. At that point it was like everyone was wondering if he should even be taking Boys' PE. And I hate to be a bigot, but I won't deny that I don't think I will ever reach that point of liberality where I can understand a guy acting like a girl.



> Why was it awkward? Did he start hitting on you guys or something?



Yeah, hit on a friend of mine. He called him cute and I'm pretty sure he asked him out.



> I fail to see why he was so bad, other than the fact he fought physically with women.



What I mean is he made things awkward for those around him, and I can't imagine dressing like a girl making things easier on him. In fact, the extremes to which he did this (talking exactly like a girl, walking exactly like a girl, carrying a purse) only made me think he was SEEKING attention, he WANTED to have everyone shut up and stare at him as he walked by, which is exactly what happened that day in gym.


----------



## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> That is a fair point. However, when Gandi used civil disobedience, when MLK used civil disobedience, they both faced punishment for their actions. So you either believe he should endure this "intolerance" so later generations can prosper from it, or you believe he shouldn't be punished and we should put off whatever "this" is for longer.



Later generations will prosper if this becomes more acceptable.  I'm sure you want to see a world where people in third world countries would stop killing people for mundane bullshit like women wearing pants.



> A person themselves will change the way they think. Others' arguments usually serve very little by way of changing an opinion. Don't you ever think debates kind of go like this:
> 
> "Here's what I think and why. I think you should agree."
> "I know that's how you feel, but listen to what I think. You should change you mind."
> ...



People don't often change their minds right on the spot, it is usually a gradual process.  I don't expect you to see things differently after we speak, but perhaps I can give you a little push in that direction.

I can't speak for other debaters, but I also think about the people that are reading this thread.  They are more likely the people that are on the fence (people with a formed opinion are more likely to post), and those are the people I tailor towards the most, because my arguments then don't entirely go to waste.



> Doubt it.







> The analogy in your statement was inaccurate. It would ofc not garner attention when the men are acting as women, not actually being women. In fact, all your analogy does is even the most "intellectual" of times and places, like classic Greece had their own prejudices and drawbacks. You mentioned women not being allowed to act. So that would mean women were still inferior to men at that point, unlike today's society. So in that case, all your talk about "we may as well be living in the Dark Ages/1950's" is for naught because EVERY episteme has their share of stupidity. If you can even classify this as stupidity that is.



Read this, and read this carefully.  If you trace back this particular part of the discussion, we were solely talking about crossdressing.  What I'm trying to show you (which you acknowledged in the above quote without probably realizing it) is that context is important.  The only difference in the situation was that the bullies were close minded about crossdressing.  If they had the same mentaility about that issue alone like those in the societies I mentioned, then the kid wouldn't have garnered attention.  It would have just been another day in high school.



> There is a dividing line between genders. Those dividing lines are our sexual organs. I don't actually think clothes need to have some revolution over them. Not a political weapon, so don't use it as ammo for an idiotic movement. It's simple, if you're a man, dress as one. If you aren't, don't. If you feel like a woman but aren't, get a change, and put on a skirt. Isn't really that hard.



Cubey, what you don't realize here, is now that you have taken an anti-freedom argument.  You do believe freedom is an important value in society right? It's been the way things are for the most part, but simply put, if you are arguing that only men can wear certain things, and women another, then you are limiting people's freedoms.  I'm pro-freedom, so I would not defend your position.



> You're the one who said this is about identity, not fashion



It was obviously a joke. 



> He can get a sex change if he wants. Article said he was gay though.



So he has to get a sex change to wear certain things? Don't you feel this is in the slightest ridiculous? The fact you have to make a life changing decision to wear an insignifigant piece of cloth?

I know what the article said, but of course, I'm going to skeptical and include possibilities here rather than take a conclusive answer.



> Anyways, if he really feels like a woman, he could think of it as a uniform. He needs to wear pants in school, similar to how you'd need to wear a uniform in private school or work.



Well some schools would have skirts for the women to wear, which is part of the uniform.  What I want to ask Cubey, is why would the skirt only be limited to the girls that go to the school? It only seems to be due to social discomfort, which I hope you would acknowledge as a poor argument.



> I'm not playing a semantics game. I'm not going about things on a technicality, in fact you are. Everything I said applies and you chose not to address it. You can still address my paragraph on it though. I'll just take it as a personal concession otherwise.
> 
> This is not prejudice.



So the kid that had been drove to the extreme of bringing a stun gun to school didn't suffer any kind of prejudice? You want to defend that there was absolutely no homophobic statements made by the bullies, which by definition would be prejudice?



> Nah. With the way the world is today, it definitely has to be evolution itself.



Heh, I would much rather be in this era than any time in the past.  Well, I would have chosen to be a teenager in the 90s instead.


----------



## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not homophobic. I know a gay chick and she's one of the coolest people I know.
> 
> But anyways, that's the thing. His mannerisms were so strange that he may have actually been a girl. Seriously. At that point it was like everyone was wondering if he should even be taking Boys' PE. And I hate to be a bigot, but I won't deny that I don't think I will ever reach that point of liberality where I can understand a guy acting like a girl.



As individuals, we are not exclusively male and female when we talk solely about our personalities.  After all, we do have both testerone and estrogen in our bodies.  Some just are more feminine.



> Yeah, hit on a friend of mine. He called him cute and I'm pretty sure he asked him out.



I don't think there's anything wrong with that unless your friend specifically told him to stop it.  Once it gets there, it needs to stop, no matter what genders are involved in the party.

Call me vain, but I like being complimented, regardless of which gender it comes from. 



> What I mean is he made things awkward for those around him, and I can't imagine dressing like a girl making things easier on him. In fact, the extremes to which he did this (talking exactly like a girl, walking exactly like a girl, carrying a purse) only made me think he was SEEKING attention, he WANTED to have everyone shut up and stare at him as he walked by, which is exactly what happened that day in gym.



What was it that exactly made it obvious that he wanted attention? Could it be that him being an attention whore had nothing to do with personal attire? I'm sure that if an actual female in his shoes would still be considered an attention whore, but no one would think that it was her femininity that caused it, rather it was just her personality.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

I just realized I actually don't care about this enough to continue a war of attrition 

Anyways, I will remark on two things before I exit this thread:

- One you are absolutely right that I was ridiculous to suggest sex change in order to wear a piece of fabric. That was idiotic.

- You say you are pro-freedom, but what you don't seem to realize is freedom is not idealistic. We have to limit our freedom in certain ways. Our boss can limit our freedom in the workplace, The police and government can limit our freedoms anywhere they want. There is no such as full freedom, it caters to the majority. In this case, the freedom to wear women's clothes.


----------



## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> I just realized I actually don't care about this enough to continue a war of attrition



I didn't find it an attrition, I enjoyed this discussion.



> Anyways, I will remark on two things before I exit this thread:
> 
> - One you are absolutely right that I was ridiculous to suggest sex change in order to wear a piece of fabric. That was idiotic.



I'm glad you realized that.  I don't think you are an idiot (other people would disagree with me on this forum probably  ), just sometimes we think ridiculous things.  We all have done it or will do it eventually.



> - You say you are pro-freedom, but what you don't seem to realize is freedom is not idealistic. We have to limit our freedom in certain ways. Our boss can limit our freedom in the workplace, The police and government can limit our freedoms anywhere they want. There is no such as full freedom, it caters to the majority. In this case, the freedom to wear women's clothes.



I'm not speaking of pure freedom where there are no rules to restrain us, but rather just the kind of freedom where it doesn't come into conflict with eachother.  Pretty much the cliche "your freedom ends when mine begins".  We can debate whether that is true freedom, but it would be a semantical debate and not really what is important here.

I don't think wearing women's clothes will limit anyone's freedom, it would actually enhance it for everyone, therefore I support it.


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

Enjoyed it as well


----------



## Charu (May 6, 2012)

Here's to exercising my un-tapped debate skills. *ahem*



Cubey said:


> ...? Identity is irrelevant as far as school goes. It's why some places have uniforms. It's also why there is a dress code. You don't fucking dress in drag at school. Let me repeat, you don't fucking dress in drag at school when you are aware what you will provoke people.


School is actually a rich-in-identity-matters environment...so I don't know what you mean by "school" here; also, part of our identity is our sexual orientation. If identity doesn't matter in schools, they shouldn't have to separate the girls and boys into skirts and shorts.

Perhaps it was more important for this kid to be appreciated for what he truly is than go about the school being uncomfortable with his sexual orientation.



> It's not like you can simply walk past some guy at the office in make-up, hoop earrings, a corset and a purse, and go "Oh he's just being himself." Maybe one day we will get to the point where everyone understands that a man can't necessarily be a man, but not right now.
> 
> He is free to have his own identity on his own time, but not in a place of formal conduct.


No, you're right, it's not that simple...



> What if a girl walked into school one day in a bikini and was like "Please respect my identity as a beach-goer," or a guy came in nude and was like "Please respect my identity as a nudist who is unashamed of his natural body?"
> 
> There is a limit to everything, and this crosses that limit.


What about "please respect my identity as a very feminine human being that just so happened to have been born with a penis" ? 



Cubey said:


> And also you can't change the way people think when they have been conditioned to think men should dress as men, and women should dress as women. I have to say that it isn't the most illogical notion to simply put on some fucking pants if you have a penis, btw.



They can be reconditioned, just as how people who were raised to believe people of African descent were uncivilized degenerates overcame that nonsense and believe otherwise.

And you're right, it's completely logical to wear pants - penis or no penis actually. But that's completely by choice.

Also, though he did not dress immodestly, schools would deem his choice of fashion as a male to be a disruption of the "education process," which is what schools would use as a reason to disallow a certain extent of cross-dressing.



> It actually doesn't and you've failed to address the point. I can dress as the statue of liberty if i want to on MY time, or if my place of conduct allows it. I've seen people dressed as hotdogs on the street handing out fliers. This isn't disturbing the peace or misconduct because they're actual employed for that purpose. *But you can't go into work or school as a hotdog.*



...unless the occasion allows it. A guy can wear a hotdog suit and ask a girl out to prom. A guy can go to work as a hotdog if he wanted to if their department allows it during a department party.

If the boy is wearing school-appropriate fashion that the norm deems is meant for girls, why is it suddenly inappropriate for the guy to wear it?

This guy doesn't want to be a guy, and it is this nation's promotion of the idea that "people can be whatever they choose to be so long as it doesn't infringe upon other people's freedoms nor does it cause self-harm" that makes this boy's choice to dress like a girl justifiable. And because of said idea, these "attention-seeking problems" will always come up. Also, protests were meant to seek attention.



> It isn't appropriate for a guy to dress as a woman, and no amount of "Aw he's just confused, etc etc" will change that shit.


Since this is an opinionated statement, I'll respond with my own...

For centuries, men have dressed like women, as the fashion back then was much simpler. They've only branded genders upon fashion because of societal change. Yes, society can also function as a keeper of order, but fashion - a well-respected form of artistic expression - should be kept as just that, not as something limited to what genitals you have because of societal pressure. This boy did nothing to show anything resembling obscenity, either, so there is really nothing inappropriate going on here.



> Yeah, you know what, no. Don't use the word prejudice for this. Prejudice implies the intolerance of a person for natural things given to them, such as ethnicity, or nationality, or what have you. Making fun of crossdressers isn't in the same context, otherwise, the word could be abused for anyone. You're prejudiced against Naruto fans. You're prejudiced against masturbators. Disliking someone for something they like or do is not the same kind of prejudice that "history" has fought for.



You forgot that prejudice also applies for religion and sexuality. It has been scientifically accepted that sexual orientation is not always voluntary and can be hereditary. So in many cases, it is not only a nurtured thing, but also a "natural thing."



> Equality for drag queens? I feel ridiculous just for typing that. People can go to drag bars for their own activities, don't disrupt everyday life for some half-assed public statement.



Note that that "half-assed" public statement was actually civil disobedience. Changes have to start somewhere. School may not be the smartest idea, but you can't deny that attention there is very rich, so why not start with a civil disobedience at a place where cross-dressing matters to a certain populace?



> ? No we wouldn't. Evolution keeps us progressing throughout time. Nature could have kept us as brainless bacteria if it wanted. But no, we will continue to progress because it has already been written.



And not only will we be progressing, but our culture will also continue to change, as it is ever-changing.



P.S. Cubey, as I kept reading my arguments and non-argumentative comments toward your posts, I found myself being less convinced that my original arguments were strong. That's why I ended up agreeing with you at some parts. Point is, you're a great debater.


----------



## hammer (May 6, 2012)

ChowMein said:


> P.S. Cubey, as I kept reading my arguments and non-argumentative comments toward your posts, I found myself being less convinced that my original arguments were strong. That's why I ended up agreeing with you at some parts. Point is, you're a great debater.



avoid any OBD poster at all cost your rep will be in danger


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

You have fairly strong arguments as well ChowMein. I kinda feel like a prick now


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (May 6, 2012)

What exactly does this kid being gay have to do with wanting to dress like a women? The gay part seems like it's only in here to inflame people into a blind foaming rage about discrimination. Sorry, it's not going too work. 

Schools have a right to set their dress code. In this respect, they should have intervened before the problem even started under some cheesy "non disruption clause". Furthermore, before anyone whines about "freedom", schools have more power to limit rights than most any other institution in our society. 

Anyway, you do something vastly different that isn't viewed as the norm in high school, and you draw attention to yourself. You keep doing this same thing and you get people even more cheesed to screw with you. It's the high school way! It ain't never gonna change. Play the game, or break the rules until you get tossed out on your ass. This kid choose the later. 

Regardless, I approve of the kid stunning the "people who circled him". He should have fucked their shit up even more. Schools don't know how to deal with bullies. You gotta take matters into your own hands. If/when I have kids in high school, I will tell them straight: if some kind of bully shit starts, you go find the Barracuda of the school and fuck his shit up. If they're afraid of H2H combat, I will instruct them on how to strap well concealed steel under their wrist. That's the only solution! Violence gotta meant violence head on!!!!!!!!!!! Stop the pussy shit. Man or woman, go fuck their shit up.


----------



## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> What exactly does this kid being gay have to do with wanting to dress like a women? The gay part seems like it's only in here to inflame people into a blind foaming rage about discrimination. Sorry, it's not going too work.
> 
> Schools have a right to set their dress code. In this respect, they should have intervened before the problem even started under some cheesy "non disruption clause". Furthermore, before anyone whines about "freedom", schools have more power to limit rights than most any other institution in our society.
> 
> ...



no? i didnt make a single comment about him being gay and got gang negged by the gays around here. Making it known hes gay serves the only purpose of having all the other gays stand up for him, when if it wasnt known i bet most of them wouldn't start come idealistic crusade to allow their fellow gay to dress as a girl because its how he feels and equality etc.

was this refering to just some guy dressed as a girl, i bet most wouldnt do it. unless they already assume any guy dressing as a girl is gay. was it a straight guy doing it and i bet their whole speech would be different.

and i didnt even say anything wrong or out of the ordinary. i just told things how they are and how they work in realworld. but they are blinded by their idealistic bullshit. whatever


----------



## Pilaf (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> You have fairly strong arguments as well ChowMein. I kinda feel like a prick now



Mah Boi... admitting you have a problem is the first step to either recovery or avoiding anal rape by Pilaf.


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> no? i didnt make a single comment about him being gay and got gang negged by the gays around here. Making it known hes gay serves the only purpose of having all the other gays stand up for him, when if it wasnt known i bet most of them wouldn't start come idealistic crusade to allow their fellow gay to dress as a girl because its how he feels and equality etc.
> 
> was this refering to just some guy dressed as a girl, i bet most wouldnt do it. unless they already assume any guy dressing as a girl is gay. was it a straight guy doing it and i bet their whole speech would be different.
> 
> and i didnt even say anything wrong or out of the ordinary. i just told things how they are and how they work in realworld. but they are blinded by their idealistic bullshit. whatever



i'm sure you were negged because when you hear a story about a guy who was so harrassed he felt threatened and brought a stungun to school, and also considered suicide, you said "yeah, i'm on the bully's side"

idiot.


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

hammer said:


> avoid any OBD poster at all cost your rep will be in danger



Are you basically saying "fear us or your rep will gone?"

Ok.....if you're bringing that to a debate just wow.


----------



## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> i'm sure you were negged because when you hear a story about a guy who was so harrassed he felt threatened and brought a stungun to school, and also considered suicide, you said "yeah, i'm on the bully's side"
> 
> idiot.



i said i didnt care for the guy because he brought that on himself. wich is true. and anyone that is not deluded knows it. he could have avoided it, but instead he provoked the situation by keep dressing as a girl. anyone with a brain knows how that would turn out.

like i said its the same as going to afghanistan dressed like capt america and geting shot. is it right? no. is it his fault? yes it is


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## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> i said i didnt care for the guy because he brought that on himself. wich is true. and anyone that is not deluded knows it. he could have avoided it, but instead he provoked the situation by keep dressing as a girl. anyone with a brain knows how that would turn out.
> 
> like i said its the same as going to afghanistan dressed like capt america and geting shot. is it right? no. is it his fault? yes it is



"Those blacks should of known not to march on the street. And not to do those sit ins. Or to acknowledge that white person, or look them in the eye. They brought it on themselves"


----------



## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Flow said:


> "Those blacks should of known not to march on the street. And not to do those sit ins. Or to acknowledge that white person, or look them in the eye. They brought it on themselves"



except blacks cant stop being black now, can they?

actually, thats like saying some black guy that goes to some KKK rally and has something bad happen to him aint his fault.

why do you think there's bad neighborhoods? yeah people can go there. are they advised to do it? nope, on the contrary. only in that ideal world some live in where they seem to think they arent bound by some social rules that would happen. and we know thats fiction.


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> except blacks cant stop being black now, can they?
> 
> actually, thats like saying some black guy that goes to some KKK rally and has something bad happen to him aint his fault.



You missed what I was trying to get across to you.

"Confirm to what the norm is, or what we deem as acceptable. Even if it doesn't affect us in anyway whatsoever." Is what you are in support of.


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

Another thing...

What does them having to be "black" have to do with anything? Out of everyone in this thread, even if I was in support of what you stand for, you bring poor representations/arguments to the table.

Someone could just as easily have said "Hey, that's their problem. Why would they do those sit ins? Why would they try to fight for equal rights, when they know how society views them? That's their fault, no one else"


----------



## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Flow said:


> You missed what I was trying to get across to you.
> 
> "Confirm to what the norm is, or what we deem as acceptable. Even if it doesn't affect us in anyway whatsoever." Is what you are in support of.



i support people having a brain and knowing what to do and what not to do in certain situations. Walking around naked doesnt affect others either, and its not legal. if some guy goes streaking and gets arrested, would you be on his side?


actually, if we go by your logic, everyone can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they dont really affect others. which will never happen, because people arent affected by the same things in the same ways.


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## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> i support people having a brain and knowing what to do and what not to do in certain situations.



How about just be in support of people walking around and just being who they are, rather than "You're being stupid! Why don't you just be "NORMAL". Why don't you just do what society tells you to do? Who CARES if that's what you are. It may be YOUR life and you want to express who you are but COME OOOON!"




> Walking around naked doesnt affect others either, and its not *legal*. if some guy goes streaking and gets arrested, would you be on his side?



 Since when was a guy dressing like a woman illegal? Seeing as how a lot of people who go streaking are either drunk and do it for the sole purpose of _*aggravating *_/mentally fucking with others, I don't think this is comparable.


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## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> actually, if we go by your logic, everyone can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they dont really affect others. which will never happen, because people arent affected by the same things in the same ways.



You're being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

You don't think a course of action should be taken towards the bullies, and that everyone in that school should just confirm to "what is acceptable"?

Like I said, there was a kid in my school who dressed like a woman. People gossiped about them and teased them, but _I _never went out of my way to mess with them.


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## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Flow said:


> You're being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
> 
> You don't think a course of action should be taken towards the bullies, and that everyone in that school should just confirm to "what is acceptable"?
> 
> Like I said, there was a kid in my school who dressed like a woman. People gossiped about them and teased them, but _I _never went out of my way to mess with them.



i never said nothing should be done. kids throwing rocks should be punished. if they follow the guy around and severely harrass him they should be punished. the school should have a degree of responsability.
it still doesnt change the fack that the kid could have avoided this whole situation and didnt. thats my only point.
and it is a million times easier on everyone to have one kid stop dressing as a girl in an environmente where thats not propriate, than to stop an entire school from laughing at some guy dressing as a girl.


and about the other post, not everyone walks around naked to provoke others. thats why there's nudist colonies and beaches etc. its something that some people actually want to do. and its illegal. it doesnt affect anyone, it doesnt do any harm either. if you say some people are offended by it, then i can say some people are offended by men dressing as women, and we would be equally right. your freedon of being who we want to be doesnt exist. and for it to exist, you either allow everything or you dont


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> it still doesnt change the fack that the kid could have avoided this whole situation and didnt. thats my only point.



Which is a poor one. Even if he had stopped, they probably would of continued to bring it up/find something else to bully him about.



> and it is a million times easier on everyone to have one kid stop dressing as a girl in an environmente where thats not propriate, than to stop an entire school from laughing at some guy dressing as a girl.



"It's a million times easier just to ship the blacks back to Africa, cause you know, they are the minority and the whites are the majority and they don't want them there"


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## eHav (May 6, 2012)

Flow said:


> Which is a poor one. Even if he had stopped, they probably would of continued to bring it up/find something else to bully him about.
> 
> 
> 
> "It's a million times easier just to ship the blacks back to Africa, cause you know, they are the minority and the whites are the majority and they don't want them there"



fine, keep living in ur fantasy world, that'll work out really well when you have kids

and great selective quoting btw


----------



## Gunners (May 6, 2012)

Except it isn't a million times easier to ship blacks back off to Africa. Stop with the racial comparisons, they fail and it is beyond a joke now.


----------



## Petes12 (May 6, 2012)

His basic point is the kid should have the right to dress weird if he wants to

That just because it'd be easier to do the wrong thing doesn't mean it's ok


----------



## EJ (May 6, 2012)

eHav said:


> fine, keep living in ur fantasy world, that'll work out really well when you have kids



"Keep living in your fantasy world, blacks will never be able to coexist with whites."



> and great selective quoting btw



good points presented in your argument btw.


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## EJ (May 6, 2012)

Hey guys, I think it would definitely be a lot easier for everyone to confirm to what society deems as normal and acceptable. You know, so no one gets their feelings hurt. 



Gunners said:


> Except it isn't a million times easier to ship blacks back off to Africa. Stop with the racial comparisons, they fail and it is beyond a joke now.



You're obviously missing the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (May 6, 2012)

Cubey said:


> And also you can't change the way people think when they have been conditioned to think men should dress as men, and women should dress as women. I have to say that it isn't the most illogical notion to simply put on some fucking pants if you have a penis, btw.


Women can wear pants now. 


Flow said:


> Are you basically saying "fear us or your rep will gone?"
> 
> Ok.....if you're bringing that to a debate just wow.



He's just saying.


----------



## Kue (May 6, 2012)

Gunners said:


> Except it isn't a million times easier to ship blacks back off to Africa. Stop with the racial comparisons, they fail and it is beyond a joke now.



So there's absolutely no similarities?

You are also missing the point if you are using the "they suffered more" as an argument.  Do human rights become circumstancial depending on how much a minority has suffered? If Jews were given strawberry shortcakes and massages at concentration camps instead of being killed by the masses, does that mean that they lose rights because they didn't suffer enough? Of course not! This is ridiculous.  A person's rights is not predetermined by how much their group has suffered, it goes to everyone.

I know the argument comes from the ignorance of gay history, but really it isn't relevant to the issue of how much rights the kid gets.


----------



## Miss Fortune (May 6, 2012)

I say self defense. Who else says self defense?

Oh, and pussy bullies. Go fuck yourselves.


----------



## Tobis6PathsOfpain (May 6, 2012)

Ok the guy was being homophobic 99.9% of people who hate homosexuals are surpressing there own homosexual tendonceys


----------



## God (May 6, 2012)

^ Nice stats


----------



## zenieth (May 6, 2012)

With stats like that, some islamic states must be ultra gay.


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## EJ (May 6, 2012)

Tobis6PathsOfpain said:


> Ok the guy was being homophobic 99.9% of people who hate homosexuals are surpressing there own homosexual tendonceys



Uhm, how about no.


----------



## Enclave (May 7, 2012)

The school should have a zero tolerance policy to bullying.  What's that?  You bullied somebody?  Well now you're expelled.


----------



## Shozan (May 7, 2012)

Just read vol. 7 of Narutaru... so that stun gun shot seems 'nice' after that dragon rape for bullying!


----------



## Onomatopoeia (May 7, 2012)

97% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


----------



## Borel (May 7, 2012)

^ Actually, in 54% of cases that's false.


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## impersonal (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> no? i didnt make a single comment about him being gay and got gang negged by the gays around here.



I negged you. I'm heterosexual. And I even think that the school made the right decisions. But your posts were just so nonsensical and unjustifiable that I figured debating would yield no results and I resorted to negging. Check this post again:


			
				eHav said:
			
		

> for all i care, *people who do these things should be made fun of*. the rock throwing and such not really, but *they should be pointed at and laughed at*. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. *oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl*


Emphasis mine. We get it, you want to enforce social norms. The question is why. What exactly do you think you're achieving by pushing people to suicide, solely because they dress differently?


----------



## Canute87 (May 7, 2012)

What became of the other people he was committing sexual acts with?


----------



## baconbits (May 7, 2012)

Enclave said:


> The school should have a zero tolerance policy to bullying.  What's that?  You bullied somebody?  Well now you're expelled.



I think this story exposes the fact that zero tolerance policies actually don't work.  In every case there needs to be room for judgment and discernment - zero tolerance policies don't allow for that.


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## eHav (May 7, 2012)

impersonal said:


> I negged you. I'm heterosexual. And I even think that the school made the right decisions. But your posts were just so nonsensical and unjustifiable that I figured debating would yield no results and I resorted to negging. Check this post again:
> 
> Emphasis mine. We get it, you want to enforce social norms. The question is why. What exactly do you think you're achieving by pushing people to suicide, solely because they dress differently?



except it wouldnt be pushing someone to suicide, because 99% of the time, people dont suicide when they are made fun of. they learn they are making fools out of themselves and change.

if this guy plans on continuing on dressing as a girl, life will surely suck for him. and you want everyone to just tell him its ok to dress as a girl? bullshit. its not ok. and the kids at his school know its not ok. and by making fun of him maybe he will come to his senses. if he doesnt, its still his fault he keeps being made fun of.

also, i have no simpathy for people who suicide. its the most cowardly thing one can do.


----------



## Petes12 (May 7, 2012)

seriously, why is it not ok? 

i didn't realize he was hurting anyone


----------



## eHav (May 7, 2012)

Petes12 said:


> seriously, why is it not ok?
> 
> i didn't realize he was hurting anyone



does he go to work dressed as a girl? would he go to a funeral dressed as a girl? seriously its like you people never set foot outside of your houses. dressing as a girl is looked down upon by pretty much everyone. is that the life you want him to live? maybe he goes on to be a great drag queen, i guess that would make this ok

and enough with the "it doest hurt anyone" bullcrap. drugs only hurt yourself, walking around naked doesnt hurt anyone, drinking when ur under 21 is legal in most countries, sex with a 16 yr old doesnt hurt the 16 yr old either etc etc etc


----------



## CrazyMoronX (May 7, 2012)

BAN STUN GUNS SO LITTLE KIDS CAN'T BUY THEM!!!


----------



## EJ (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> except it wouldnt be pushing someone to suicide, because 99% of the time, people dont suicide when they are made fun of.



Source for this?

People commit suicide for a lot of reasons. Feeling like a freak/outcast/disconnected from the world  is a large reason.



> learn they are making fools out of themselves and change.



That's your opinion, and why does it bother you so much?



> if this guy plans on continuing on dressing as a girl, life will surely suck for him. and you want everyone to just tell him its ok to dress as a girl? bullshit. its not ok. and the kids at his school know its not ok. and by making fun of him maybe he will come to his senses. if he doesnt, its still his fault he keeps being made fun of.




Why isn't it ok?


----------



## Forces (May 7, 2012)

Kira Yamato said:


> *Bullied gay teen faces expulsion after firing stun gun at school*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what  ?


----------



## EJ (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> does he go to work dressed as a girl? would he go to a funeral dressed as a girl? seriously its like you people never set foot outside of your houses. dressing as a girl is looked down upon by pretty much everyone. is that the life you want him to live? maybe he goes on to be a great drag queen, i guess that would make this ok



Why does it bother you so much if someone dresses like a girl. You're just forcing your opinion and your beliefs down people's throats saying "It's not ok, it's not good. You shouldn't do it." The only reason why you feel this way is because "They can be bullied."

Why are you attacking people that want to live their lives the way they want to? Does a man dressing like a woman really bother you that much? How? This is actually pretty fucking funny when I actually look at how "disturbed" you are by it.

You're wasting all of this time debating that "They should not do it because it's not ok", but you are not even paying any attention to bullying or proposing outcomes in how to end bullying in schools, or how to improve the school system. 

That's the thing that gets me the most. You're spending all of time saying 
"He shouldn't of done it!" and you fail to actually look at the bigger picture, and see how flawed this school system is. 

Trust me, if things like segregation can end, I'm sure a boy dressing like a girl can be accepted in a school. 



> and enough with the "it doest hurt anyone" bullcrap. drugs only hurt yourself, walking around naked doesnt hurt anyone, drinking when ur under 21 is legal in most countries, sex with a 16 yr old doesnt hurt the 16 yr old either etc etc etc



Are you comparing walking around naked to a guy dressing like a woman?


----------



## impersonal (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> except it wouldnt be pushing someone to suicide, because 99% of the time, people dont suicide when they are made fun of. they learn they are making fools out of themselves and change.
> 
> if this guy plans on continuing on dressing as a girl, life will surely suck for him. and you want everyone to just tell him its ok to dress as a girl? bullshit. its not ok. and the kids at his school know its not ok. and by making fun of him maybe he will come to his senses. if he doesnt, its still his fault he keeps being made fun of.
> 
> also, i have no simpathy for people who suicide. its the most cowardly thing one can do.


You're just changing your story. Now you're saying you're doing it for the guy's own good, but previously, you didn't care if he killed himself. All in all, you're inconsistent. I pointed out that your behavior was unjustifiable, so you're trying to make up reasons after the fact -- but the reasons don't fit.

I hope you realize how stupid it is to harass people like that _"for their own good"_. What's the worst that can happen for dressing like that? Yes, getting harassed. And in order to save them from being harassed, what do you do? Yes, you harass them. Do you see what I'm getting at? This is like saying "I'm going to assault this guy, that'll teach him for not being strong enough to defend himself", or "I'm going to rape this girl, that'll teach her for being outside late". Yeah, if you do that these people will "learn their lessons", but if people like you were not around there would be no point in them learning it at all. Furthermore, since your way of dispensing the lesson is just as bad as what you're supposedly saving them from... How have you saved them at all?

And if you think I'm making ridiculous comparisons, think again. I've seen plenty of people use similar reasonings. Petty criminals do this all the time to justify their crimes. Pickpockets will tell you: _"if people don't watch their belongings, it's their own fault if I steal them"_. Rapists will tell you: _"If girls are not more cautious with how much they drink, they have it coming"_. It's a reasonning that can be used for absolutely ANYTHING: the general form being _"if I *can* do something to you, then it is *justified* to do it"._ This way, they can live with themselves. It's absolutely ridiculous, but people still use this sophism all the time. Stupid people. But not mentally handicapped people: just people who are not good at thinking seriously, or people for whom a lie is easier to live with than the truth.

The end of the story is that you're not doing it for the guy's own good. You just made this shit up as a line of defense. What you ARE doing is sticking to the social norm, for the sake of the social norm, and forcing everybody else to do the same. You don't have a reasoning or a justification behind that. All you have is just a gut, animal feeling: _"people who aren't normal should be ridiculed"_. That instinct makes you act like a horrible person, but rather than take responsibility and change your ways, you pretend you have a valid, moral reason.

That's the mentality I detected in your other post and that's why I negged you.

Now, giving advice to someone like that, telling them _"look, there are going to be idiots who will harass you, ?t's sad but it's a reality"_, that's fine and acceptable. If you're talking to a kid, it's even possible to forbid them to do this stuff: I would tell my kid _"you're not allowed into that area of town"_, or "you're not allowed to dress like a girl". But you're _going out of your way _to _mock_ and _harass_ such people. You're not going to give them advice. No: you're going to ridicule them, harass them, and try to make their life hell. If they ever stop their abnormal behavior, it's pretty clear from your posts that you'll keep on harassing them, because they were once abnormal. End of the story, you're just being a member of the bullying mob.


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## eHav (May 7, 2012)

impersonal said:


> You're just changing your story. Now you're saying you're doing it for the guy's own good, but previously, you didn't care if he killed himself. All in all, you're inconsistent. I pointed out that your behavior was unjustifiable, so you're trying to make up reasons after the fact -- but the reasons don't fit.
> 
> I hope you realize how stupid it is to harass people like that _"for their own good"_. What's the worst that can happen for dressing like that? Yes, getting harassed. And in order to save them from being harassed, what do you do? Yes, you harass them. Do you see what I'm getting at? This is like saying "I'm going to assault this guy, that'll teach him for not being strong enough to defend himself", or "I'm going to rape this girl, that'll teach her for being outside late". Yeah, if you do that these people will "learn their lessons", but if people like you were not around there would be no point in them learning it at all. Furthermore, since your way of dispensing the lesson is just as bad as what you're supposedly saving them from... How have you saved them at all?
> 
> ...



welcome to the real world where people make fun of socialy awkward people. my views didnt change.i would laugh when he passed and i would tell all my friends about that weirdo dressing as a girl at school. and the weirdo would notice people doing that all around him. and he would keep doing it. because fuck norms and being social. "whatever ill do what i want" mentality. and then complain when what is expected to happen, happens.and he would probably keep doing it till he felt like suicidng. and you are all in favor of this. lol

i bet ur the kind that goes around patting these people in hte back saying "yeah do as you want those bullies dont know anything". well you are wrong. i bet you laugh at people falling in internet videos. i bet you laugh at some fat guy falling down. i bet you laugh at some drunk guy that cant stand up. but laugh at the guy dressing as a girl? blasphemy, im a horrible person yadda yadda. bunch of hipocrites


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## God (May 7, 2012)

Flow said:


> Are you comparing walking around naked to a guy dressing like a woman?



Comparison has viable logic behind it.


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## Jin-E (May 7, 2012)

When someone dresses like that, you'd assume he would know that there would be consequences vis a vis his relations with his school mates and that he thus prepared mentally for it. Sorry, but if he believed many people wouldnt pounce hard, he's seriously naive.


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## EJ (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> welcome to the real world where people make fun of socialy awkward people. my views didnt change.i would laugh when he passed and i would tell all my friends about that weirdo dressing as a girl at school. and the weirdo would notice people doing that all around him. and he would keep doing it. because fuck norms and being social. "whatever ill do what i want" mentality. and then complain when what is expected to happen, happens.and he would probably keep doing it till he felt like suicidng. and you are all in favor of this. lol



So instead of actually TARGETING THE BULLYING. You would rather bully the kid, gossip about them, etc and force them to confirm to what you find appropriate. 

What about kids who are mentally deficient in some way? You know some of them are actually allowed into a "regular/normal" classroom. Would you tell them to get out of your classroom and let it known that they are not normal and they shouldn't be in your eyesight? 

Because you know, a lot of kids like that were (not bullied) but picked on/harassed in my school. They weren't even mentally disabled, they just had something mentally wrong with them. Would you suggest them not going to the school?

Oh, wait. That's something "They can't control", which isn't the issue. The issue is immature fucktwats concerning themselves over another person. 

The kid in my school who dressed like a women may had been gossiped about, but I never saw him get bullied.  



> i bet ur the kind that goes around patting these people in hte back saying "yeah do as you want those bullies dont know anything". well you are wrong. i bet you laugh at people falling in internet videos. i bet you laugh at some fat guy falling down. i bet you laugh at some drunk guy that cant stand up. but laugh at the guy dressing as a girl? blasphemy, im a horrible person yadda yadda. bunch of hipocrites



Is english your first language? Where are you from

 Yeah, you can laugh at those people (on the internet) but it is more respectable not to outright harass/bully them to their face. I don't even post commments in most of those videos.


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## EJ (May 7, 2012)

If this kid was acting like a pretentious asshole or something, yeah it would be no wonder why he was targeted. Him dressing like a woman would of been "easy ammo". 

But that's not what you are debating right now.


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## impersonal (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> welcome to the real world where people make fun of socialy awkward people. my views didnt change.i would laugh when he passed and i would tell all my friends about that weirdo dressing as a girl at school. and the weirdo would notice people doing that all around him. and he would keep doing it. because fuck norms and being social. "whatever ill do what i want" mentality. and then complain when what is expected to happen, happens.and he would probably keep doing it till he felt like suicidng. and you are all in favor of this. lol
> 
> i bet ur the kind that goes around patting these people in hte back saying "yeah do as you want those bullies dont know anything". well you are wrong. i bet you laugh at people falling in internet videos. i bet you laugh at some fat guy falling down. i bet you laugh at some drunk guy that cant stand up. but laugh at the guy dressing as a girl? blasphemy, im a horrible person yadda yadda. bunch of hipocrites



Have you read my post? You don't make any sense; you're not adressing anything I wrote, and you're making arguments (including about what kind of person I am) that I have already answered clearly and in depth.

All in all you sound like you're drunk, or like you have very serious reading comprehension issues =/


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## eHav (May 7, 2012)

impersonal said:


> Have you read my post? You don't make any sense; you're not adressing anything I wrote, and you're making arguments (including about what kind of person I am) that I have already answered clearly and in depth.
> 
> All in all you sound like you're drunk, or like you have very serious reading comprehension issues =/



i cant be bothered to reply to every long ass post people make about what i say in this topic in detail. i replied to whats important. i would do it, and if he didnt change and kept dressing up as a girl to the point when him being made fun of would end up with him suiciding, thats his problem. if he used his head to realise why hes being made fun of and just stopped it, then i would have no further reason to laugh at him other than remembering how he once was, and he wouldnt think about suiciding. he can dress as a girl at home for all i care. everyone wins. so yeah, if he used his head, he would help himself. and comparing me to a thieve is kinda strange since im not doing anything illegal or wrong by laughing at some weirdo that chose to be that way


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## EJ (May 7, 2012)

So ITT: eHav believes people should be bullied/harassed/driven to the point of bringing a stun gun to school in order to "Help that person out"


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## impersonal (May 7, 2012)

eHav said:


> i cant be bothered to reply to every long ass post people make about what i say in this topic in detail. i replied to whats important.


No, you wrote a stupid rant that had no relevance whatsoever to my post. Either you ignore the post, or you read it properly before you reply.


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## Hand Banana (May 7, 2012)

Kid deserved to get some sense knocked into him at an earlier age. not many drags make it big.


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## Ae (May 8, 2012)

You dress like that and expect to not be bullied? Not in this idealistic society. People say that those kids don't have the right to bully the kid but even though it's not cool, they should be able to. They should be able to express their opinion also, so what if it's mean. The real problem here is that people are thin-skinned.


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## Enclave (May 8, 2012)

Masterpiece said:


> You dress like that and expect to not be bullied? Not in this idealistic society. People say that those kids don't have the right to bully the kid but even though it's not cool, they should be able to. They should be able to express their opinion also, so what if it's mean. The real problem here is that people are thin-skinned.



When somebody gets pushed to the point where they feel the need to bring a stun gun to school then you know it's gone WAY beyond the other kids expressing their opinions.


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## Hand Banana (May 8, 2012)

Enclave said:


> When somebody gets pushed to the point where they feel the need to bring a stun gun to school then you know it's gone WAY beyond the other kids expressing their opinions.



Just means the kid's too pussy to fight them one on one.


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## Gecka (May 8, 2012)

My high school is totally different. We have no bullies and homosexuality is treated decently. I do live in Austin though, which is liberal as fuck.


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## EJ (May 8, 2012)

Enclave said:


> When somebody gets pushed to the point where they feel the need to bring a stun gun to school then you know it's gone WAY beyond the other kids expressing their opinions.



I disagree. He should of fought back, but not by bringing a stun gun.


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## Enclave (May 8, 2012)

Flow said:


> I disagree. He should of fought back, but not by bringing a stun gun.



Again, by the time it gets to the point where you're going to bring a stun gun to school things have progressed beyond simply fighting back.  Odds are people have been ganging up on him for a while.

I suspect you've never been bullied.  It's not usually just 1 kid doing it.


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## The Zero Requiem (May 9, 2012)

Bringing a stun gun to school is understandable, but inexcusable. However, bullying is as well, even if his outwardly eccentricities seem to ask for it... even if he was being indiscreet.

If a woman wears slutty clothes, and gets sexually assaulted, does that mean that it is perfectly justifiable to rape her? Did she ask to get raped? Did this boy ask to get ridiculed, threatened, and hounded?


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## Kim Farm (Jun 3, 2012)

The mother and the victim should have gone to the police first, before they decided to take things into their own hands. A stun gun is a dangerous piece of equipment and people who bring it to school deserved to be expelled.  are usually the reasons by which a student may be expelled by the school.


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## Lebron Flocka James (Jun 3, 2012)

_*I LIKE THIS GAY GUY HE NOT A PUSSY WHO CRYS ABOUT IT HE WENT AND TRIED TO FIGHT BACK THAT THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO.....................*_


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Kids get bullied all the time...gay or not, you can't bring a stun gun to school, and you certainly can't use it. 

Either way....he surely taught the bullies of this school a valuable lesson; You never know what the other guy is capable of.


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## wibisana (Jun 3, 2012)

defend urself is a must.
bringing stun gun is wrong, but the school have no right if they gonna expel him. they did nothing to bullies.

in 1st place the kid should have take karate/kungfu instead bringin weapon


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## Whirlpool (Jun 3, 2012)

Rocks can kill if they hit his head 

Stun guns are made to stun 

I honestly don't see the problem, kid taught those guys not to fuck with him


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

You should stun the shit out of your bullies wether or not they're gay bashers

But saying a kid deserves to get attacked for wearing crazy shit is like saying a woman deserves to be raped for wearing mini-skirts

Asshole needs to get fired on the spot


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

People liked to fuck with me when I was smaller. Then puberty hit, and it was game on.

A few years later I saw a friend getting bullied.

I proceeded to teach that fella not to bully the friends of six foot two guys with fifty pounds on your ass.

He bawled something about going to make complaints with the school staff.

Now that was hilarious.

Mewl little kitten, mewl


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> You should stun the shit out of your bullies wether or not they're gay bashers



Maybe so...but not at school, and don't get caught...



Banhammer said:


> But saying a kid deserves to get attacked for wearing crazy shit is like saying a woman deserves to be raped for wearing mini-skirts



It shouldn't be deserved but expected. If you're a dude in girl's clothes you should expect to be made fun of. But getting beat up is uncalled for. 

A woman dressing slutty should expect to be flirted with, but not raped...

..although, in both cases, the potential for extreme actions, and possible reactions, should be considered.


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## Vladimir Lenin (Jun 3, 2012)

Holy fuck, the bigots in this thread.

*yes,* he should have known that he would be bullied for wearing a dress to school.

*Yes,* there's no way to stop _some_ kids acting the way they were during that age.

But does he have no rights because of these facts? Can he not argue for his right to do what he wants? Can he not enlist protection against thugs who would throw stones at him and treat him like an animal? *FUCK NO.*


Honestly, kids at that age can think for their fucking selves. It's not predatory instict, it's just plain apathy and an ingrained, social conformist doctrine probably nailed into them by people like eHav and other subjective piranhas.

I am absolutely repulsed by the lack of concern issued by the School and the Council. Surely a teacher would have picked this shit up. Talked to the all of the culprits parents, anything. Instead, they ignore a pleading child until he has a breakdown from lack of support.

I think it's quite obvious that the outlook on bullying at this school is fucked up if the mother of the son actually gave him the stun gun for protection. I'm wondering how others in the area are coping.


Also, a little off topic, why is it so horrifying for a man to wear a dress if women can wear pants? I'm personally quite impartial to the concept because I hate the idea of a breeze between my legs, but for others I really cannot relate to this rejective attitude.
It isn't like people these days judge a person on what they wear, and what they wear on thousand year old gender stereotypes, is it? We're intelligent enough to know better, aren't we?



eHav said:


> he only has himself to blame for that.
> 
> and lol comparing rape to making fun of a guy dressed as a girl at school.
> 
> for all i care, people who do these things should be made fun of. the rock throwing and such not really, but they should be pointed at and laughed at. i have no simpathy for them. i would laugh a some 17yr old dude dressed as a girl at school aswell. i'd point and i'd call all my friends to see the freak. maybe then he would learn not do repeat it. oh he went and suicided? should have thought about that when he dressed as a girl



Apparently not.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Chibason said:


> Maybe so...but not at school, and don't get caught...


Well, I can't see him going "wait wait wait, do you mind punching me in the face a hundred yards to the left?"

Damn sure they're gonna identify his bully's ass now. There you go sir, it's the one writhing in pain.


> It shouldn't be deserved but expected. If you're a dude in girl's clothes you should expect to be made fun of. But getting beat up is uncalled for.
> 
> A woman dressing slutty should expect to be flirted with, but not raped...
> 
> ..although, in both cases, the potential for extreme actions, and possible reactions, should be considered.



Shit, maybe it's just me, but my brain just cannot register how it is understandable to attack the victim.
He didn't decide what is violence worthy and what isn't, retarded people who decided to name themselves the manly fashion police did. Maybe if he got into a school full of Metrosexual bullies it would be his fault for going to chem in a flanel shirt and jeans
Then would he have had it coming?


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Maybe I should use my massive bulk to nonchalantly bitchslap any slut that comes to school with white shoes after labor day


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## Mael (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Maybe I should use my massive bulk to nonchalantly bitchslap any slut that comes to school with white shoes after labor day



Hulkhammer smash puny fashion violator!


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Well, I can't see him going "wait wait wait, do you mind punching me in the face a hundred yards to the left?"
> 
> Damn sure they're gonna identify his bully's ass now. There you go sir, it's the one writhing in pain.



You wait...you wait until you can fuck that friend up without getting caught. That's my point. 



Banhammer said:


> Shit, maybe it's just me, but my brain just cannot register how it is understandable to attack the victim.
> He didn't decide what is violence worthy and what isn't, retarded people who decided to name themselves the manly fashion police did. Maybe if he got into a school full of Metrosexual bullies it would be his fault for going to chem in a flanel shirt and jeans
> Then would he have had it coming?



Clearly you misunderstood my post. I, in no way, stated that it was 'ok' to attack anyone.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Chibason said:


> You wait...you wait until you can fuck that friend up without getting caught. That's my point.





I don't see how this is realistic advice



> Clearly you misunderstood my post. I, in no way, stated that it was 'ok' to attack anyone.


You shouldn't wear that dress with those shoes. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> I don't see how this is realistic advice



Revenge is a dish best served cold. You never heard that? 



Banhammer said:


> You shouldn't wear that dress with those shoes. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry



Dude in a dress will be ridiculed....especially when we're talking about high school kids. 

In a perfect world everyone would be accepted...but this world is far from that.


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## Draffut (Jun 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> wait, the kid was dressing up in female clothes, and expected to not be made fun of? seriously



Being 'picked on' is one thing.

Having bottles and rocks thrown at you is assault.

He was being assaulted by them regularly and the school did nothing, so he protected himself.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Chibason said:


> Revenge is a dish best served cold. You never heard that?


Pre-meditated assault is a felony best served  in jail.


> Dude in a dress will be ridiculed....especially when we're talking about high school kids.
> 
> In a perfect world everyone would be accepted...but this world is far from that.



Which is the difference between taking our world back, and bring it forward.
Gaga wears a meat skank suit to stage and sells a trillion tickets in Indonesia in twenty minutes.
I think a highschool can handle an allegedly effeminate guy.


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## eHav (Jun 3, 2012)

Goobananas said:


> Also, a little off topic, why is it so horrifying for a man to wear a dress if women can wear pants? I'm personally quite impartial to the concept because I hate the idea of a breeze between my legs, but for others I really cannot relate to this rejective attitude.
> It isn't like people these days judge a person on what they wear, and what they wear on thousand year old gender stereotypes, is it? We're intelligent enough to know better, aren't we?




so men should be able to dress as women, thats what ur saying? 

Maybe the president? Maybe your own father could dress as a women when he goes to work? and you would accept it right? 

some people seem to live in a fantasy world


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Hilarious considering Buraka Som Sistema is currently more popular as a gay music album than lady gaga is in portugal
And that includes the drag queen bars

Specially their signature dance Kuduro (Translation: Hard Anus)

So regale me further with your outrage


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## EJ (Jun 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> so men should be able to dress as women, thats what ur saying?



Men use to wear more make up than women, and wore heels. 


> Maybe the president? Maybe your own father could dress as a women when he goes to work? and you would accept it right?



If that's what made them happy. Why should it concern me.


----------



## eHav (Jun 3, 2012)

Flow said:


> Men use to wear more make up than women, and wore heels.
> 
> 
> If that's what made them happy. Why should it concern me.



and we used to walk around naked, maybe we should be allowed to aswell?

so you wouldnt be embarassed by your father going to pick you up somewhere wearing a dress?


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

I would be embarrassed to have a son who is afraid of drag queens


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## eHav (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Hilarious considering Buraka Som Sistema is currently more popular as a gay music album than lady gaga is in portugal
> And that includes the drag queen bars
> 
> Specially their signature dance Kuduro (Translation: Hard Anus)
> ...



you must visit a lot of drag queen bars then.

and my point has nothing to do with being gay, its has to do with dressing up as a women.
the only outrage i see here comes from the butthurt forum gay brigade negging me and calling me homofobic 



Banhammer said:


> I would be embarrassed to have a son who is afraid of drag queens



considering your taste in bars, i doubt you will have to worry about that anytime soon


----------



## EJ (Jun 3, 2012)

eHav said:


> and we used to walk around naked, maybe we should be allowed to aswell?



So what you're proposing is: 

"My way is the right way. Even though something like fashion has nothing to do with what the general public may find right/wrong, MY way is the right way. Who cares about the past. I DON'T want to see men dressed as women, even though men use to wear feminine clothing and WERE REGARDED TO AS MEN.



> so you wouldnt be embarassed by your father going to pick you up somewhere wearing a dress?



Uh, no. He's my father. It would be weird to me at first, but if I ever bring myself to be embarrassed by the man that raised me, fed me, put clothes on my back, taught me what was right from wrong, taught me what it was to BE a man, 

then I must of sunken pretty damn low.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

I'd be embarrassed to be older than fifteen and my dad still came to pick me up at school



> you must visit a lot of drag queen bars then.


Yes
And they all have the same taste in music as you.


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Pre-meditated assault is a felony best served  in jail.



Again, if you were caught. Besides, it's no less premeditated than what he did. 



Banhammer said:


> Which is the difference between taking our world back, and bring it forward.
> Gaga wears a meat skank suit to stage and sells a trillion tickets in Indonesia in twenty minutes.
> I think a highschool can handle an allegedly effeminate guy.



Of course they should be able to handle it...but they don't. That's a fact everyone knows. 

Are you under some false impression that I support what happened to this kid? That's ridiculous. I've done nothing more than state the obvious. Highschool is a hard place to be different. 

It's not fair, and I don't agree with it. but that's how it is.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

> Again, if you were caught.



Same thing could be said for tazing that bitch in school
It would have been fine if he hadn't been caught.



> Besides, it's no less premeditated than what he did.



I've yet to hear about pre-meditated self-defense.
Notice that they aren't booting him for attacking the kid, they are doing it for bringing a tazer into campus

One gives ya jail, the other one, does not.



> Of course they should be able to handle it...but they don't. That's a fact everyone knows.


Then they're the ones at fault and in need of corrective action, not the kid


> It's not fair, and I don't agree with it. but that's how it is.


You can't lay your arms down in a case of victimization. It opens precedent to do bad things with impunity.



> Are you under some false impression that I support what happened to this kid? That's ridiculous


I'm under the impression that not only you are placing some amount of guilt on the victim because of his sense of fashion, even if only relative to everyone elses, which I find it to be personally ridiculous


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## Mintaka (Jun 3, 2012)

Hello necropost.

I also meant to neg you Kim Farm.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, what a drag queen. I mean, just look at him, and then his twin brother whom he is high fiving.

Totally had it coming


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Same thing could be said for tazing that bitch in school
> It would have been fine if he hadn't been caught.



A lot harder to not get caught in school but yeah. 



Banhammer said:


> I've yet to hear about pre-meditated self-defense.
> Notice that they aren't booting him for attacking the kid, they are doing it for bringing a tazer into campus
> 
> One gives ya jail, the other one, does not.



Because their are specific rules against bringing weapons to schools...if he had hit someone he would have gone to jail. 



Banhammer said:


> Then they're the ones at fault and in need of corrective action, not the kid



Agreed. They should have been reprimanded for bullying well before this incident of course. But that doesn't excuse him from punishment now that he fired a weapon on School grounds.  



Banhammer said:


> You can't lay your arms down in a case of victimization. It opens precedent to do bad things with impunity.



You act like there is some way we could suddenly make all kids stop teasing other kids...or that we could miraculously make everyone believe that crossdressing in high School is acceptable. 



Banhammer said:


> I'm under the impression that not only you are placing some amount of guilt on the victim because of his sense of fashion, even if only relative to everyone elses, which I find it to be personally ridiculous



Your impression is wrong..and I thought we were cool before this, Banhammer...Mafia bros? 

The expectation for being teased is all I placed on him. Not because I think he should be teased, but because I was once in High School and I remember how it was. 

From my first post I stated that the violence against him is wrong, so I don't know why you keep harping on that aspect of it.


----------



## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Banhammer said:


> Yeah, what a drag queen. I mean, just look at him, and then his twin brother whom he is high fiving.



Why would you choose to use a picture where he's not in Drag? That's contradictory to the point you're trying to make. 



Banhammer said:


> Totally had it coming



Who said he had it coming? Lol twisting words like a Pro...Are you by chance a politician, bro?


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Chibason said:


> Why would you choose to use a picture where he's not in Drag? That's contradictory to the point you're trying to make.


Because that's the photo of his that is available on the article





> Your impression is wrong..and I thought we were cool before this, Banhammer...Mafia bros?


I'm not attacking _you_ per se, I'm criticizing a rethoric that is running rampart in this thread, independently of whom is throwing it

Even if the guy came in a white bleached wig, manolo heels and enough lipstick to nail jello into a wall it would still not be a remote excuse to attack him.


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## Chibason (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, I agree he shouldn't have been attacked.


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

going to school with a neo-nazi tatoo, and "female articles" are not equivalents


Specially considering as far as we know they could be anything between a full vera wang gown to just a pair of sensible leopard print sunglasses


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## kazuri (Jun 3, 2012)

Your clothes are shaped funny!


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## Banhammer (Jun 3, 2012)

Bitch, I'm fabulous


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## Avix (Jun 3, 2012)

I was in the same situation as this and it depressed me, it was a daily thing and I wasn't suicidal, no I don't have that in me but life wasn't enjoyable anymore just constant stress and hassle and low self-confidence, esteem etc

The school is at fault, this is the real world and if they can't be bothered to do something they need to be prosecuted because this is a person's life here and this all would have been avoided had they put effort into this case. IF a kid needs to take a stun gun to school to feel safe whose fault is that?


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## DoflaMihawk (Jun 4, 2012)

No sh*t. Did the schools expect the kid to just take the bullying for the rest of his school days?


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