# Which HST manga has the best fights.



## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

Like the Title says which HST manga has the best fights.


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

Rasengan tickles, and Getsuga Tenshou is unoriginal.

Going with One Piece here, cause the fights aren't in a cliche formula and actually respects the power levels that the series has spent a long time establishing.


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## Hakan Erkan (Nov 22, 2012)

I feel as though I need copious amounts of popcorn to fully enjoy this thread.


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

What about the Justsu filled fights in part 1.


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## Cheeky (Nov 22, 2012)

This was an awful idea for a thread Zirconis. Atrocious.


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> What about the Justsu filled fights in part 1.



Some of them are good, especially in Chunin Exam, but a few good apples don't make up for the rotting decadence of the rest of the basket.


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## Cheeky (Nov 22, 2012)

Naruto's first part had the best fights. But overall...




Luke Kent said:


> Some of them are good, especially in Chunin Exam, but a few good apples don't make up for the rotting* decadence *of the rest of the basket.





You're not using that word properly.


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## Araragi (Nov 22, 2012)

hentai


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

Or Ichigos fight with Grimmjow.


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

Youcheekylittle said:


> Naruto's first part had the best fights. But overall...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



fine, decay*


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## Hatifnatten (Nov 22, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Going with One Piece here





No fucking shit.














Also lold hard at this


> cause the fights aren't in a cliche formula and actually respects the power levels that the series has spent a long time establishing.


too funny even for an optard


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

Hatifnatten said:


> No fucking shit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are going to dispute that then give me your reasons why as it would be interesting to hear it from someone who watches a series where the power levels are beyond fucked up...Bleachtard :ho


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## Araragi (Nov 22, 2012)

@Hatif:


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## Stannis (Nov 22, 2012)




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## Cheeky (Nov 22, 2012)

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

Especially Stardust Crusaders. 

And the chariot race in Part II? _Fuck_ yeah.

JJBA wins, low diff


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## Impact (Nov 22, 2012)

Hakan Erkan said:


> I feel as though I need copious amounts of popcorn to fully enjoy this thread.



You got that right


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)




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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)




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## Starburst~ (Nov 22, 2012)

It's a tie, they all lose.



Luke Kent said:


> Rasengan tickles, and Getsuga Tenshou is unoriginal.
> 
> Going with One Piece here, cause the fights aren't in a cliche formula and actually respects the power levels that the series has spent a long time establishing.



 luffy and enel


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

Starburst~ said:


> It's a tie, they all lose.
> 
> 
> 
> luffy and enel



Did u you forget the whole rubber lightning dynamic already??

Also, Luffy has lost to the likes of Croc twice and only beat him once. He got fucked up by Aokiji, Magellan and Lucci the first time.


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

lol no one voted for the rasengan, poor jiraiya, after all his hard work


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## Bruce Wayne (Nov 22, 2012)

Not Bleach..


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

One Piece fights are the worst out of the 3, and if it's Luffy, it's Gomu Gomu spammage which hurts my eyes, and ears if watching anime. 

Bleach has ok fights, they're not special, but at least they're cool. And I like the reason of some characters' hiding their powers, doesn't make them feel like ass-pulls
Of course the exception is Ichigo's fights which always suck


Naruto has the best of them. They're pretty much my fav in every aspect


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

^ Yea cause Naruto spamming rasengan and Ichigo spamming Getsuga Tenshou rarely happens and doesn't hurt anyone else's ears right?


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## KLoWn (Nov 22, 2012)

They're all equal as far as I'm concerned, all three have had some really epic fights, and some boring drawn out shitty ones.



Luke Kent said:


> ^ Yea cause Naruto spamming rasengan and Ichigo spamming Getsuga Tenshou rarely happens and *doesn't hurt anyone else's ears* right?


Why would they?


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## Sablés (Nov 22, 2012)

Best fights in this order,IMO.

Luffy vs Lucci

Ichigo vs Byakuya

Rock Lee vs Gaara

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the order of HST battles.

Each of them has had exceptional fights as well as some dreadful ones.


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

KLoWn said:


> They're all equal as far as I'm concerned, all three have had some really epic fights, and some boring drawn out shitty ones.
> 
> 
> Why would they?



read the post above me


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Best fights in this order,IMO.
> 
> Luffy vs Lucci
> 
> ...



Yea i agree with this


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

A hawk chirping and a quietly spinning rasengan are actually ear-candy. And guess what?

1) Gomu Gomu occurs in one single major fight than almost all rasengans in the series..If that's exaggerating, then 3 fights is definitely it.

And no they don't spam it, Kage Bunshin is used in many different ways, along with transformation (early in the series) and even combos with other shinobi hardly make it spamming.

Jet, Pistol, Stamp are all his harder, faster, better, bigger (in size or number), stronger variations of the same thing. Which btw isn't even original as you claim it is. (f4)


And I already said Ichigo's fights are an exception and they are shit so wth is your point


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## Mihawk (Nov 22, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> A hawk chirping and a quietly spinning rasengan are actually ear-candy. And guess what?
> 
> 1) Gomu Gomu occurs in one single major fight than almost all rasengans in the series..If that's exaggerating, then 3 fights is definitely it.
> 
> ...



Rasengan IS spamming, it doesn't matter what context it's used in, it's still the same technique, and what is ear candy and what isn't is an opinion.


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## Greidy (Nov 22, 2012)

Bleach            .


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## Blunt (Nov 22, 2012)

Most the fights in all of them are not very exciting.

Having said that, Naruto's are the worst.


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## KLoWn (Nov 22, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> read the post above me


Makes more sense now.


Luke Kent said:


> Rasengan IS spamming, it doesn't matter what context it's used in, it's still the same technique, and what is ear candy and what isn't is an opinion.


Naruto spams different variations of rasengan, Luffy spams different variations of Gomu Gomu no whatever, and Ichigo does whatever he fuckin does with his sword.

They're all the same.


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## Bruce Wayne (Nov 22, 2012)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Best fights in this order,IMO.
> 
> Luffy vs Lucci
> 
> ...



Fixed..


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## Forces (Nov 22, 2012)

One Piece or Naruto, depends which character really

But certainly not Bleach with it's GETSUGA TENSHO GETSUGA TENSHO GETSUGA TENSHO ATTACK FROM BEHIND GETSUGA TENSHO GETSUGA TENSHO power up from the ass Ichigo is 100x stronger


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## Silver (Nov 22, 2012)

They all have decent fights, but One Piece pulls ahead comfortably.

*Spoiler*: __ 



On a different note I see lots of rustled jimmies in this thread


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## Casanova (Nov 22, 2012)

Ikorose said:


> Bleach            .



Second this


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Rasengan IS spamming, it doesn't matter what context it's used in, it's still the same technique, and what is ear candy and what isn't is an opinion.



Aaaand you skipped the other point; it is not nearly as much used as Gomu Gomu

Gomu gomu is
1) used in every arc, which is like what? 25 arcs?
2) used way too much during ONE arc...25 times (too much) = ?
3) if our luck is shit, we get some gatling retardation which is in-game  spammage  and there ya go 


While it is subjective i'm pretty sure a not so loud sound of water or something is not nearly as annoying as some idiot yelling GOMU GOMU 
besides the word rasengan has only 3 syllables, Gomu gomu no, 5 + whatever comes next...do the math with the above points and your head explodes


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## Black Mirror (Nov 22, 2012)

THe poll is irritating.

I like Zoro's fights the most. Luffy is awesome but Zoro 

Naruto part 1 had very good fights, especially Sasuke who only used his sharingan for observation and had some good tactics. But now Naruto is just very lame.

Bleach should use more kido. I also missed Bala and hand to hand combats. Kubo is lazy on this part. Mashiro and yoruichi are awesome but they don't get enough panel time.



x5exotic said:


> Aaaand you skipped the other point; it is not nearly as much used as Gomu Gomu
> 
> Gomu gomu is
> 1) used in every arc, which is like what? 25 arcs?
> ...



not like Luffy is a ninja or shinigami though. you have to consider the variety of skills and attack, the main characters are allowed to use. The thing that makes Bleach and Naruto annoying on this part is that the characters don't use this variety but focus on one skill. eg. Naruto could use some of millions of techniques there are except rasengan and show some interest in genjutsu or sealing techniques. Ichigo could use kido from time to time, fight without his sword for a while or use bala (yeah I love bala >.>)


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## Tempproxy (Nov 22, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> One Piece fights are the worst out of the 3, and if it's Luffy, it's Gomu Gomu spammage which hurts my eyes, and ears if watching anime.
> 
> Bleach has ok fights, they're not special, but at least they're cool. And I like the reason of some characters' hiding their powers, doesn't make them feel like ass-pulls
> Of course the exception is Ichigo's fights which always suck
> ...



I agree with this guy One piece fights are fucking atrocious, nothing exciting about them. I have always enjoyed Naruto fights especially Uchiha fights.


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## Nordstrom (Nov 22, 2012)

They are all spamming but lemme go through this carefully...

1. Bleach fights are great, but Ichigo is boring and his Getsuga spamming too.
2. Ditto Nardo, the fact other characters seem to fight like they are in a Street Fighter game only makes it worse.
3. OP is fine when it involves the top-tiers, otherwise, it's the shittiest.

Just find which has more shit and see what remains after you remove it.


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## VanzZz (Nov 22, 2012)

Casanova said:


> Second this



**


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

@Black Mirror, Rasengan is the most efficient and quite possibly the strongest ninjutsy (pre-element merging) in the series, it doesn't need much chakra at alland maintains its power. Even after contact. So it's actually a very perfect spamming choice, and yet they are generous enough to not spam it, so kudos to that. 


Genjutsu has gone down the shitter since...ever. First it was an actual ninja-esque mind fucker used by everyone and is actually explainable and we know how it works, with Uchihas having special privileges. Now it seems Kishi's run out of ideas, so it's now this rarely used, Uchiha-excusive, mengekyou-restricted, non-explainable because-i-told-you-so ability. 

Same with the overall character intelligence in Naruto, wanna show that someone's smart? Too lazy, Just make every one else dumb so he may seem smarter.

Genjutsu is now just a  "lol trapped all along I'm an aizen ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".)" 
Oh yea and Aizen's full of this shit, so Idk why people think he's brilliant. It's just trolling.


I honestly don't care about how few Ichigo's abilities are, I want him to be killed off. 


No, luffy is no shinigami, nor ninja, but he's a rubber-man, that's one of the potentially most versatile abilities. And up until the end of the Buggy arc that's what I was thinking. But now it's the same uninspired movements.

The only thing I liked of Gomu post-buggy is when he grabbed Lucci by the tail and spun himself and Lucci along with him. 
That was possibly the best OP fight move for me


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## Dellinger (Nov 22, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> @Black Mirror, Rasengan is the most efficient and quite possibly the strongest ninjutsy (pre-element merging) in the series, it doesn't need much chakra at alland maintains its power. Even after contact. So it's actually a very perfect spamming choice, and yet they are generous enough to not spam it, so kudos to that.
> 
> 
> Genjutsu has gone down the shitter since...ever. First it was an actual ninja-esque mind fucker used by everyone and is actually explainable and we know how it works, with Uchihas having special privileges. Now it seems Kishi's run out of ideas, so it's now this rarely used, Uchiha-excusive, mengekyou-restricted, non-explainable because-i-told-you-so ability.
> ...


Seriously dude,what's your problem with OP?
Wherever I see you,you always go against it and talk bullshit about it.
Just drop it already,OP doesn't need deepshits like you to read it.

Anyway..Luffy vs Lucci,Zoro vs Ryuma,Ace vs Blackbeard,even a glimpse of Kizaru vs Rayleigh was better than anything in Nardo and Bleach.

And I forgot Smoker vs Law.


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

You wot m8? Fite me irl.


Hmmm let me give you a reason.

1) I put OP at the bottom of the HST in terms of fights because I think the fights are shit in comparison
2) I put down almost every recent chapter because the recent arc is on a shit-streak - if that's what you're referring to by always
3) I also seem to praise OP at times (not for on-going content) but you seem to miss that.

I put down other series, especially Bleach in which I actually call it shit and am actually aggressive toward its bad chapters, but no one seems to ever be bitchy about other people's posts as optards -_- just let go brah.

So what do you want me to do? Lie and say I like Op fights more? Will it make you better?


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## KLoWn (Nov 22, 2012)

White Hawk said:


> Seriously dude,what's your problem with OP?
> Wherever I see you,you always go against it and talk bullshit about it.
> Just drop it already,OP doesn't need deepshits like you to read it.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that he can't have an opinion about the subject this thread is about while expressing your own like it's a fact set in stone?


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

Naruto D. Luffy said:


> Not Bleach..



Ichigo vs Grimmjow tend to disagree. 



> You wot m8? Fite me irl.


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

Zirconis Wot? Maybe this fite irl will be better than all HST fights


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

No...just no.


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## Bruce Wayne (Nov 22, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> Ichigo vs Grimmjow tend to disagree.



That fight was ass cheese..

Nami vs Khalifa shits all over anything in Bleach..


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## x5exotic (Nov 22, 2012)

Best bleach fight = Hisagi vs Findor


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## JoJo (Nov 22, 2012)

Naruto D. Luffy said:


> That fight was ass cheese..
> 
> Nami vs Khalifa shits all over anything in nardo..



Fixed. 

@exotic It was pretty good but Ikkaku Madarame vs. Edrad Liones was better IIRC.


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## Furious George (Nov 22, 2012)

One Piece. 

There was a time I used to consider Naruto about equal to OP in fights if not better. That was more when it was about real strategy and clever planning and less about eye tricks and attacks that break you down on "a cellular level".


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Nov 22, 2012)

I used to say Naruto...but I can't even remember the last time I actually enjoyed a fight in that series.  Every fight now is full of ridiculous ass pull techniques that barely even make sense.

Bleach's plot and fights have gone straight to hell since Byakuya vs Ichigo.  Funny someone mentioned the Grimmjow fight because I just dropped the series in disgust at the end of that.

One Piece is pretty consistently creative and entertaining with its fights besides Nami's opponents going braindead and a few other exceptions.  It's funny that the fights are not even one of the big reasons I like OP and it's still better than its competition.


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## Starburst~ (Nov 22, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Did u you forget the whole rubber lightning dynamic already??



He generated enough heat to melt gold, but not luffy. If you're going to talk about clich?s at least be consistent.


Beserk for write in.


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## Owl (Nov 22, 2012)

I'd say One Piece.


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## P-X 12 (Nov 22, 2012)

One Piece easily.


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## Bamboo (Nov 22, 2012)

Phx12 said:


> Bleach easily.



Fixed.


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## P-X 12 (Nov 22, 2012)

Man D. Rigma said:


> Fixed.



If it was the worst fights in the HST, you'd have a point.
Maaaaaaybe.


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## Nordstrom (Nov 22, 2012)

Sasaki Kojirō said:


> I used to say Naruto...but I can't even remember the last time I actually enjoyed a fight in that series.  Every fight now is full of ridiculous _ass shove_ techniques that barely even make sense.
> 
> Bleach's plot and fights have gone straight to hell since Byakuya vs Ichigo.  Funny someone mentioned the Grimmjow fight because I just dropped the series in disgust at the end of that.
> 
> One Piece is pretty consistently creative and entertaining with its fights besides Nami's opponents going braindead and a few other exceptions.  It's funny that the fights are not even one of the big reasons I like OP and it's still better than its competition.



Fix'd


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## Heretic (Nov 23, 2012)

Definitely not Bleach, given its awkward power levels and shikai/bankai/cero spammage. KB feints and Rasengan isn't much better, but its better at least.

I'd say probably OP, though I think their fights have much improvement needed.

Face it guys, HST fights suck. If you want gold, go for HxH, Toriko, or something better.


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## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

> If you want gold


DBZ FTW, they repeat scenes and the same moves, but still epic.


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## Mihawk (Nov 23, 2012)

Exactly there are OTHER fights other than Luffy's


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## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

Same for Bleach and Naruto.


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## Dellinger (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> You wot m8? Fite me irl.
> 
> 
> Hmmm let me give you a reason.
> ...


And why are they shit?
Tell what's entertaining in current Nardo's fight?Some big beasts throwing some balls?Is that a good fight?Was Kabuto vs the bros good?No.Was Madara vs the Kages good?No.
Was Bach vs Yama good?No,it could have been but Kubo decided to choose the troll way.
On the other hand Law vs Smoker was much more entertaining and much more lively.Same with Luffy vs CC part 1 and 2.Well drawn,some interesting powers and DECENT characters.

You were always against OP,you go anywhere just to say something bad about it.


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

White Hawk said:


> And why are they shit?
> Tell what's entertaining in current Nardo's fight?Some big beasts throwing some balls?Is that a good fight?Was Kabuto vs the bros good?No.Was Madara vs the Kages good?No.
> Was Bach vs Yama good?No,it could have been but Kubo decided to choose the troll way.
> On the other hand Law vs Smoker was much more entertaining and much more lively.Same with Luffy vs CC part 1 and 2.Well drawn,some interesting powers and DECENT characters.
> ...




I went to Mordor once, and told Sauron bad things about it. He agreed.

Since this is off-topic i'll tag it

*Spoiler*: __ 



Why are they shit? Nothing good about them. Story is shit. Other subplots are shit. Kids whining all the time. Everyone being as cliche as ever. Luffy still punching people in the same unoriginal way. Oda doesn't even try to be creative anymore ever since...ever. 

Hmmm Nardo, the art in the chapter where Obito rages, is pretty much more entertaining than FI and PH combined for me. The story trolled us all...but it is improving. The action is pretty good. So there was nKamui/Rasengan combo action that actually uses some brain power.. not some retard gomu gomu no herp derp or some uninspired asspulls from Zoro or Sanji (or nami/chopper). 

Law vs Smoker was good, but nothing special. All other fights were shit. 

Now you're just trolling, naming fights from Nardo and saying they're not going, then doing the opposite with One Piece, it's wanking.

Kabuto's fight was good, the kage fight was skipped but the aftermath is another thing that's better than FI+ PH combined. It's not even close lately. OP's recent chapters range from absolute shit to below average, Naruto's go from mediocre to actually pretty good - with the exception of 599 which was shit-


So, pretty much Nardo is being more entertaining in Action, Story and Art, so yeah..
Sadly even Bleach is sometimes outdoing One Piece lately.





Why did you ignore what KLown posted? It seems to have already put you in your place.

Anywhere = every place that is related :gioio


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## Quwrof Wrlccywrlir (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Sadly even Bleach is sometimes outdoing One Piece lately.



what's up with you 

i don't read all three btw


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Yama chapter and As Nodt chapter were awesome


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## Mihawk (Nov 23, 2012)

Usopp VS Luffy was FULL of strategy, and was a great fight.


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## Mihawk (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Yama chapter and As Nodt chapter were awesome



And yet its the same shit, sword slashes.


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Except that they were real, manly slashes unlike Zoro's 

And not really the sword slashes that intrerested me. Nodt's talk and Yama's...you know (not bankai)..the other (you know) did


Ussop vs Luffy, liked that one but no, it was all Ussop SAYING that he planned it all beforehand. "Omg he said he planned it this is sooo strategic <3" 
then there were some looney toons tricks. Yeah, that's how bad the situation is :/


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## Bruce Wayne (Nov 23, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> Fixed.
> 
> @exotic It was pretty good but Ikkaku Madarame vs. Edrad Liones was better IIRC.



Ino vs Sakura is better than anything in Bleach..That fight actually had a point..


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 23, 2012)

Toriko>one piece=Good Naruto>>>>Nardo.


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## Stilzkin (Nov 23, 2012)

> If you want gold, go for HxH, Toriko, or something better





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Toriko>one piece=Good Naruto>>>>Nardo.



In fights?

No, I'll accept the debate between OP and Toriko over which is better overall (despite my opinion being that OP is far superior in key elements) but Toriko does not have better fights.

Toriko has had one truly interesting fight, Tommyrod. Everything else has been quite short and simplistic. The last fights that had anything going on were the gourmet pyramid fights with the sphynx and the nitro.

Lets not even bring up how they have the story momentum of any of the OP end of arc fights as that is probably straying away from the purpose of this thread.


Early Naruto > OP > Naruto > Bleach

With Bleach being so far away from the rest that its not worth debating over.


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## MrCinos (Nov 23, 2012)

One Piece = Part 1 Naruto > Bleach > Part 2 Naruto.


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## KidTony (Nov 23, 2012)

One piece has got the best fights, but it's sort of inconsistent since they are not always great. I would have easily voted Naruto if this was pre-skip, Naruto fights then were awesome for the most aprt. Post Skip.....not so much, they just devolved to someone using one all-powerfull super secret jutsu, and then his opponent one uping him with a super secret all powerfull jutsu of his own...ad infinitum.

Bleach? lol, people voting for it are just showing how bias they are. Bleach fights are objectively awful.


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## Morglay (Nov 23, 2012)

Bleach solos. 
-Fantastic pacing. 
-Unpredictable and varied powers. 
-Incredible sneak attacks. 
-Fluent choreography. 
-Awesome tactics. 
-Just a cut above the rest really. 

*Spoiler*: __ 



Hur hur hur.


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## Nordstrom (Nov 23, 2012)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Toriko>one piece=Good Naruto>>>>Nardo.



Let's rename the thread to "How the HST compares to T-ko and how much of a stomp against them would comparison to Toriko be"

...because there's only one known truth...

That shit will always be above the HST...


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Bleach? Pacing?



and stop bringing up shit like Toriko  off-topic and sucky


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## Furious George (Nov 23, 2012)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> *Toriko>one piece*=Good Naruto>>>>Nardo.



A little premature, don't you think?  

I don't see how that's justified apart from Tommyrod vs. Toriko.


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## OmniOmega (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Bleach? Pacing?
> 
> 
> 
> and stop bringing up shit like Toriko  *off-topic and sucky*


You obviously have bad taste in manga


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Wait you're talking about the manga as a whole? and actually think it's a quality manga? Dafuq?


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## CandyCocaine (Nov 23, 2012)

I don't see how anyone consciously voted for Bleach... like no.


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## ammarz (Nov 23, 2012)

In my opinion, Naruto has the best fights among the three by far. I quite enjoy the fights in Naruto. Kishimoto has created a world which affords him to depict quite versatile fights with strategy, finesse and a quite non-linear power scale among other things. For example, compare Naruto vs Pain and Hanzo vs Mifune. Both were quite different fights and extremely enjoyable for me. 

Bleach comes in second. It had some great fights, but they were mostly restricted to the first arc. The quality of the fights has decreased with time, however, there were one or two shining moments in between.

I don't like the fights in One Piece in general. They don't captivate my interest. Even though I am a fan of the manga, I find the fights usually boring.


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## Mihawk (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> *Except that they were real, manly slashes unlike Zoro's *
> 
> And not really the sword slashes that intrerested me. Nodt's talk and Yama's...you know (not bankai)..the other (you know) did
> 
> ...



Aint nothing manly about a bunch of Bishonens from Bleach flapping their small ass swords and dicks around.


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## Yourself (Nov 23, 2012)

1. One Piece

2. Bleach

3. Naruto - I can't even remember the last time there was a good fight in Naruto


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

No but it's manly when they cut people in half. Unlike Zoro's triple-dildo style


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## Unknown (Nov 23, 2012)

People speaks as if part II Naruto didn't have great fights. 
Jiraiya vs Pain
Nidaime Mizukage vs Gaara
Hidan and Kakuzu vs Asuma, Shikamaru, Kotetzu and the other
...
...

I know that there are shit fights, but also great ones. 

I like the best fights of each manga as much, and all of them have bad battles aswell...


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## KLoWn (Nov 23, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Aint nothing manly about a bunch of Bishonens from Bleach flapping their small ass swords and dicks around.


A well executed and interesting fight has nothing to do with how the characters look.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Nov 23, 2012)

luffy vs enel, luffy vs rob lucci = rock lee vs gaara, kimi vs gaara, rock lee vs kimi > all


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## Hakan Erkan (Nov 23, 2012)

Furious George said:


> A little premature, don't you think?
> 
> I don't see how that's justified apart from Tommyrod vs. Toriko.



Agreed,the problem is the small variety of villains. It's mostly Toriko and friends fighting random wild beasts or the Bishokukai. The Nitro and Livebearer were the only exception. It's probably just me, but I hate it when a shounen has like one faction of bad guys which is around all the time from start to finish. Shit gets boring pretty fast. That's what I love about One Piece, there's so much different organisations/factions that pursue their own goals. Thus I have high hopes for Joa, the evil King, and this rich fuck to run their own agenda and not end up on Midora's side. A Nitro civilization added to the mix, or some completely new faction somewhere deep in the Gourmet World would also be pretty awesome. A three or four way war would be so much more interesting imo.


----------



## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Feel like doing this,
Red = Naruto
Blue = Bleach
Green = OP

*Excellent fights: *

*Spoiler*: __ 



Sasuke vs Danzo, 
Kakashi vs Zabuza, 
Sasuke vs Killer Bee 
Sasuke vs Naruto pt.1
Hidan + Kakuzu vs Shikamaru and Kakashi
Orochimaru vs Sasuke (forest) 





*Great fights*: 


*Spoiler*: __ 





Lee vs Gaara (almost excellent)
Jiraiya vs Pain
Itachi vs Sasuke
Kimimaro vs Lee/Gaara
Neji vs Spiderman
Sannin Battle
Sasuke vs 5 Kage

Hidan vs Asuma 
Konan vs Tobi
Kiba vs Naruto
Hisagi vs Findorr
Ikkaku vs First arrancar
Byakuya vs As Nodt
Ichigo vs Grimmjow (11 seconds) 
Ace vs Blackbeard





*Cool fights*:

*Spoiler*: __ 



Nnoitra vs Ichigo
Byakuya vs Zommari
Starrk vs Shinsui
Yama vs Fake Juha
Ichigo vs Zaraki
Ichigo vs Ikkaku
Deidra vs Sasuke
Shikamaru vs Temari
Neji vs Naruto
Shino vs Orochimaru's ninja from the death forest
Sasuke vs Gaara
Sakura vs Sasori
Naruto vs Pain (NOT ANIME)
Bee vs Kisame
Obito and Kakashi vs Rock ninja
Kurenai, Gai, Kakashi, Asuma vs Itachi and Kisame
Aizen vs Gin (not really a fight)
Ulquiorra vs Ichigo
Grimmjow vs Ichigo (much better if the other side wasn't ichigo)
Grimmjow vs Ulquiorra
Soifon vs #2 (I really suck at bleach names)
Luffy vs Wiper
Law vs Smoker
Kizaru vs Supernova
Enel vs Luffy (save for the end)
Ussop vs Luffy
T-Bone vs Zoro (not really a fight)
Robin vs Fat skypiea priest




*OK fights*:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Madara vs Kage
Gin and Kintaku vs people
Gaara vs Deidara
Gai vs Kisame (Gaara arc)
Choji fights

Luffy vs Arlong
Zoro vs Baroque works @whiskey peak
Rob vs Luffy
Smoker vs Luffy (LT)
Luffy vs Mr.3 and ....merry christmas? Valentine? the painting girl
Most of the WB war

Ichigo vs Byakya
Szayel vs w/e
Aaroniero vs...fuck I forgot a main's name...(googling) rukia 
Hitsugaya vs Hallibel
Ichigo vs Renji
Aizen vs Ichigo


----------



## Mihawk (Nov 23, 2012)

KLoWn said:


> A well executed and interesting fight has nothing to do with how the characters look.



And yet you are fine with the guy above us saying that Bleach is manly and zoro isn't, the double standard


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

Juha isn't bishounen, neither is yama. And they cut people in half. 

Zoro...as I said, uses play swords.

Inb4 someone posts a thriller bark zoro AMV


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## Fujita (Nov 23, 2012)

There's more to liking a manga than your opinion on the fights themselves. So... while One Piece is the only member of the Big 3 I still consider to be "good" in any way, that's not exactly how this list is going to look 

Though I dropped the manga, I'd honestly say that I felt that Naruto had the best fights overall. There was a bit of strategy involved, and honestly the art was quite vivid in depicting the actual punches, kicks, etc. Negi vs Hinata or Gaara vs Lee was probably the best example in this regard. The fights vs the Sound Four (was that their name) were also very well executed technically, though I didn't care much for the characters themselves. 

One Piece comes next. You have some pretty epic fights here and there. Gear 2 is actually one of my favorite shounen powerups. One Piece has the advantage of really tugging at your heartstrings and making you care about the outcome of the fight. While that's more plot than how well the fight itself was executed, it's worth mentioning. One Piece also has some really interesting powers, which helps in making the fights pretty cool. 

Bleach is dead last. Because massive explosions, really wide and repetitive sword slashes and the like don't make for very interesting fights. You have a few gems here and there (anything with Mayuri in it) but apart from that... it's kinda dull.


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## KLoWn (Nov 23, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> And yet you are fine with the guy above us saying that Bleach is manly and zoro isn't, the double standard


Who said I was fine with it? He posted his comment while I was still making mine, and thus I didn't see it it.


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## P-X 12 (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Juha isn't bishounen, neither is yama. And they cut people in half.



Not counting the Zero Squad, there are only, what, handful, if that, of undeniably non-bishonen guys on the side of good for Bleach. So are most of the important villains/antagonists, save for Juha, and out of those who remain, most are kind of balanced by the fact that they suck. There are far more on the One Piece side (don't even try to deny it) on either side and are better characters in my opinion.



> Zoro...as I said, uses play swords.



Better than the simple crap Byakuya uses. Hell, most of the Shikai and Bankai are less impressive than one sword in One Piece; Yoru (hell the only reason people like them is because they're magic, and are therefore better than normal swords). The only ones I think is truly awesome are Zaraki and Yama's, although that's bias coming from a fire lover.

As for why I think Bleach has terrible main fights, or at least as of late; Damn near every important fight from Hueco Mundo onwards has had at least one asspull. 

List:

Ichigo vs. Grimmjow: Ichigo randomly gets stronger, eventually plowing through Grimmjow's strongest attacks, after hearing encouraging words from Inoue, despite having problems with dealing with Grimmjow not a moment ago.

Ichigo vs. Ulqi: One pulls out a second form, which was never previously hinted at, in the middle of a hopeless fight for Ichigo, who pretty much dies, somehow awakens his Full Hollow out of nowhere, and curbstomps Ulqi. Not only do we never get an explanation on why that happened then and not the other time they fought, but this power is never spoken of again.

Vasto Lorde fights: 

Harribel gets ganged up on by Shinigami and Vizards, then gets taken out by Aizen for no reason.

Barragan becomes hideously broken, so he get's killed via a Deus Ex Machina.

Starrk is too cool for this arc, so he gets taken out via a Shikai Shunsui (I could cover other things that I thought were stupid, but that'd take too much effort). 

None of them show any power even remotely comparable to Ulqi while supposedly more powerful. Granted, they'd kill their opponents, but still.

Aizen: The Hyogyoku is retconned to be a wish granting device as opposed to the whole breaking the boundries between Soul Reaper and Hollow, retconning a shit ton of other things as well. With it, he becomes so hideously broken in his own verse that several Captain class Shinigami can't do anything to him despite having massive prep and intel on him. He's somehow able to get out of moves that are made to counteract his BS by doing nothing, and in some cases, straight up ignoring abilities that may become a problem for him. It got so bad, they needed two back to back Deus Ex Machinas, which are asspulls within themselves, and he still isn't dead. Hell, if we take the whole entire Juha thing to mean something, he can still fuck with people's perceptions, which makes no sense seeing as his sword broke.

I could go into the latest fights (the captains being braindead and losing their Bankai off the bat, the mechanics of the Bankai stealing process being retconned within a few chapter, Juha casually oneshotting Yama with a random sword, but most of that is PIS and story related. 

I'll get to Naruto later, and might add more stuff down the line.


----------



## Badalight (Nov 23, 2012)

Bleach has horrible fights, just plain color splashes.

One Piece doesn't have that great of fights either. Sanji's and Zoro's are the worst, but Luffy and Usopp pick up the slack.

Naruto has relatively good fights over-all, but they were much much better in part 1 when things were more strategic and not dbz blast being shot everywhere.


----------



## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Bleach? Pacing?
> 
> 
> 
> and stop bringing up shit like Toriko  off-topic and sucky





x5exotic said:


> Wait you're talking about the manga as a whole? and actually think it's a quality manga? Dafuq?





x5exotic said:


> No but it's manly when they cut people in half. Unlike Zoro's triple-dildo style





x5exotic said:


> Feel like doing this,
> Red = Naruto
> Blue = Bleach
> Green = OP
> ...



So many stupid posts so little negs.  and I have to spread.


----------



## Unknown (Nov 23, 2012)

Badalight said:


> Bleach has horrible fights, just plain color splashes.
> 
> One Piece doesn't have that great of fights either. Sanji's and Zoro's are the worst, but Luffy and Usopp pick up the slack.
> 
> Naruto has relatively good fights over-all, but they were much much better in part 1 when things were more strategic and not dbz blast being shot everywhere.



One Piece does have other good fights aside from Luffy's and Ussop's, Sanji vs Kuroobi was good, the same can be said for Law vs Smoker for example.

As for Naruto part II, doesn't Jiraiya vs Pain have nice strategies on it, just like Danzou vs Sasuke or Gaara vs Nidaime Mizukage, or some others.

Bleach also has some fights that had almost everything on them, like Fisher vs Ichigo or Rukia vs Aporro.


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

We're talking about comparing Juha slashing Yama vs Zoro slashing stuff. Out of these Zoro is pretty much the bishounen-y one.




> Ichigo vs. Grimmjow: Ichigo randomly gets stronger, eventually plowing through Grimmjow's strongest attacks, after hearing encouraging words from Inoue, despite having problems with dealing with Grimmjow not a moment ago.



Same for Luffy vs Lucci



> Ichigo vs. Ulqi: One pulls out a second form, which was never previously hinted at, in the middle of a hopeless fight for Ichigo, who pretty much dies, somehow awakens his Full Hollow out of nowhere, and curbstomps Ulqi. Not only do we never get an explanation on why that happened then and not the other time they fought, but this power is never spoken of again.



Same for...G2, every zoro fight, many DF users...etc.
DFs are the epitome of ass-pulls.

Zoro and Byakuya's weapons are different. And no, if there's anything One Piece can not top Bleach in, it's the designs. As for Zoro's swords, they're a joker. Partly because of censorship and also because instead of pulling awesome combos since he has THREE swords, he decides to pull extra powers out of his ass


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## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

> he decides to pull extra powers out of his ass



*cough**cough* Mangeyakou Sharingan *cough**cough*


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

I just said 2 pages ago  Mangekyou Sharingan was full of asspulls


----------



## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm just reminding you, and there are more ass-pulls than just that.


----------



## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

But it doesn't make what I said not an ass-pull
 
Besides OP has womb-pulls (Ace's birth)


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## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

> womb-pulls


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## Fujita (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Same for...G2, every zoro fight, many DF users...etc.
> DFs are the epitome of ass-pulls.



G2, an asspull? Wait, wait, a character evolving their fighting style and figuring out a new way to use their abilities is automatically an asspull? 

Damn, I guess there are asspulls everywhere. Ichigo learning shikai? Asspull. Ichigo learning bankai? Asspull. Naruto learning Rasengan? Asspull.


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## x5exotic (Nov 23, 2012)

He said he figured it out beforehand, that must mean it's not an ass-pull.
Sure if G2 were just a way to expand the versatility and add new moves then you're right, but it was more power-oriented than it should have been, and then we got G3, which is kinda worse.

As for Rasengan, we saw them train for it, and while learning it in like a month or so, instead of 3 years is ridiculous, we can't really say he learned it fully. He figured out a way to control it in other ways i.e clones, it goes under the "work smart, not hard" category. So i'd say it's definitely not an ass-pull. Buuuut what's an asspull is Naruto's chakra. He literally runs out of chakra 3 times minimum during a fight.

As for Shikai, i don't even remember how he got it lol


@Zirconis


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## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

> we got G3, which is kinda worse.


G3 makes much more sense than G2.
2100 posts.
+1 reputation power.


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## Geralt of Rivia (Nov 23, 2012)

Getsuga............ TENNNNNNNNSHHHHHHHHHHHHOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOMU GOMU NO.................... PIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSTOOOOOORUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Stilzkin (Nov 23, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> He said he figured it out beforehand, that must mean it's not an ass-pull.
> Sure if G2 were just a way to expand the versatility and add new moves then you're right, but it was more power-oriented than it should have been, and then we got G3, which is kinda worse.



Nope, before W7 even begins we know the M3 have a reason to be trying to create new techniques. What we see in EL is the result of that.

If the author already gave us foreshadowing for something beforehand then it not an asspull, unless it something that makes no sense even in that verse.

Asspulls are like deus ex machina moments in that they are ways for the writer to get out of a situation that he forgot to figure a way out of.

Look at the tvtrope definition:




> ..without Foreshadowing or dropping a Chekhov's Gun earlier on.





> In cases where a character suddenly gets a new skill without explanation, it's usually explained away as a Chekhov's Classroom or Chekhov's Skill, except the audience never saw the character attending the lecture in question, or any examples of him or her using, or even training that skill.



...which isn't the case here as we do have foreshadowing to explain why they would have been working on new techniques off screen, and we know they do train off screen.


G2 is too power oriented? If you make your punches a lot faster they are going to hit harder. This makes sense. What doesn't make as much sense is why G3 punches hit so much harder (but the idea of Luffy blowing himself up does).


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## ZeroWolf123 (Nov 23, 2012)

Both One piece and Bleach have their share of awesome fights but I like OP's more, 

Naruto has fallen off and most o them aren't even that great anymore the last good one was sasuke vs itachi the fights in Naruto were probably better than shippuden


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## Treerone (Nov 23, 2012)

P.1 Naruto = OP >> P.2 Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleach


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## Nordstrom (Nov 23, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> And yet you are fine with the guy above us saying that Bleach is manly and zoro isn't, the double standard



Zoro IS manly, not Luffy.


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## ~Howling~ (Nov 23, 2012)

Voted for this a day ago,i think..
Anyway i like Bleach fights the most,especially in the anime,the awesome choreography + OST's make them absolutely amazing.I also enjoy the different types of fights,whether they are strategic(Byakuya vs Tsukishima),a mindfuck(Any fight with Aizen in it ,As Nodt vs Byakuya) or an all out brawl(Ichigo vs Grimmjow,Hisagi vs Findor)
Fights in OP are good too,however they add too much humour,for my tastes.Add to that how short most of them are,the fact that i sometimes need to stare at the pages for a full minute just to figure out what's going on and the sometimes ridiculous ways characters win,and it's sort of off-putting.Nevertheless i still enjoy them.Loved Luffy vs Lucci .
Naruto fights have gotten too Pokemon-esc recently.I enjoy the overpowered jutsu's like Madara's meteor,PS and what not,but the fights still feel weak,for some reason..


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## Yourself (Nov 23, 2012)

One Piece = Naruto P 1 > Bleach >>>>>>>>>>>> Naruto P 2


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## Cromer (Nov 23, 2012)

BLEACH shouldn't even get in on this thread, the 'fights' are just consecutive splashes of black ink.

And good fights are quite possibly the one thing Naruto and One Piece could possibly be compared on without Naruto getting utterly stomped.


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## Canute87 (Nov 23, 2012)

I was going to jump and say one piece but after thinking about it carefully it's pretty damn hard to say it's better than Bleach from the technical stand point.

But still here was the big problem with bleach. Every fight was won because the opponent got this crazy power during the fight. There was never really a continuous flow between the fights and the victor never came out on top because of skill but simply because he gained more power than the opponent.

people cannot compare this to gear 2 from luffy because you saw Luffy literally struggling to keep his body intact to defeat Lucci, Moria and the pacfistas.

The Choreography of the fights from Bleach are currently superior to one piece. This of course has much to do with the fact that Bleach has been pushing out more of their top fighters from early on.One Piece has just started.

What's really left now is the entertainment factor and this is where one piece has the edge over bleach. Luffy Sanji and Zoro are guys that pretty much keep the fights entertaining
Can people remember seeing luffy screaming during the final moments of the jet pistol on lucci? or when Zoro pretty much found himself at piece before he did the impossible and cut steel for the first time?

In one piece fights always go through the phases of a storm, the build up, the crashing winds rain lightning and thunder and finally the grand finally and everything comes to a close with the curtains falling.

This is not something i can explain in words too well but there's always this rush when the fights start and when it ends and al in all It's just way more entertaining to see. 

So I'd give it to one piece for it being simply more entertaining.


Naruto used to have a nice mix of all the combats of fighting, taijutsu, ninjutsu and genjutsu. But Kishi for the most part has decided to put taijutsu in the back of the bus. Taijutsu was always supposed to be the entertainment factor of the fight but more of a focus has been placed on ninjutsu and Ughhh Genjutsu.


----------



## ZE (Nov 23, 2012)

The only aspect I consider Naruto superior to OP is the fights. When it comes to that, Naruto offers the most variety of these three mangas, be it in fighting styles or strategies. Kakuzu, Kimimaro, even Hidan, drunk Rock Lee, Kakashi etc. they all brought something unique to the table. Not that op doesn?t have memorable fights, namely: Luffy vs Lucci, Sanji vs Jyabura, Luffy vs Croc, Luffy vs Enel, Zoro vs Mihawk, Blackbeard vs Ace, Kizaru vs Supernovas?  but I feel most of these fights got too many interruptions while they were happening (Oda rarely draws a non-stop fight without having other events in the middle of it), which took a lot of fun from reading them. 



x5exotic said:


> Feel like doing this,
> Red = Naruto
> Blue = Bleach
> Green = OP
> ...



Sasuke vs Killer bee an excellent fight?
Same with Oro vs Sasuke?
And Sasuke vs Naruto? I never liked it 

Naruto has way better fights than those.
Naruto vs Gaara, 
Drunk Lee vs Kimimaro
Gaara vs Kimimaro
Orochimaru vs Third Hokage
Naruto vs Pain

Oro vs sASUKE was only good in the anime. In the manga it sucked.


----------



## JoJo (Nov 23, 2012)

Treerone said:


> P.1 Naruto = OP >> P.2 Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleach


----------



## Nordstrom (Nov 23, 2012)




----------



## Stilzkin (Nov 23, 2012)

Canute87 said:


> The Choreography of the fights from Bleach are currently superior to one piece. This of course has much to do with the fact that Bleach has been pushing out more of their top fighters from early on.One Piece has just started.



Choreography?

Are you mistaken on what this word means?

There was very little choreography in Yama's and Buckbeard's fight, none I would say. You mention "top fighters" so I imagine that must be at least one of the fights you are refering to.

Smoker vs Vergo's 3 page fight had more choreography than we have seen in any Bleach fight this arc.


----------



## steveht93 (Nov 24, 2012)

White Hawk said:


> And why are they shit?
> Tell what's entertaining in current Nardo's fight?Some big beasts throwing some balls?Is that a good fight?Was Kabuto vs the bros good?No.Was Madara vs the Kages good?No.
> Was Bach vs Yama good?No,it could have been but Kubo decided to choose the troll way.
> On the other hand Law vs Smoker was much more entertaining and much more lively.Same with Luffy vs CC part 1 and 2.Well drawn,some interesting powers and DECENT characters.
> ...




This guy is so stupid to understand the word "opinion". 



I can't pick a series so easily,they all had good fights and bad fights during their long serialization. I will base my opinion on the series that had the most creative and frequent good fights that I really enjoyed in my opinion. Which is naruto,because since part 1 and early half of part 2 the fights where really goood and amazing with abilities that are more varied and new. 

Fights like sasori vs Sakura,Zabuza vs team Kakashi,gaara vs lee,gaara vs naruto,and naruto vs sasuke where shonen royalty level fights in my opinion.


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## x5exotic (Nov 24, 2012)

Stilzkin said:


> Nope, before W7 even begins we know the M3 have a reason to be trying to create new techniques. What we see in EL is the result of that.
> 
> If the author already gave us foreshadowing for something beforehand then it not an asspull, unless it something that makes no sense even in that verse.



Again, just because it's mentioned before doesn't mean it doesn't make it an asspull. Bankai existed long before but they were still an ass-pull.



> Asspulls are like deus ex machina moments in that they are ways for the writer to get out of a situation that he forgot to figure a way out of.


Which exist heavily in OP, I mean even after G2, which proved to be not that much against Lucci and Luffy got the crap beaten out of him several times, he pulled the power of friendship out of his ass and won






> ...which isn't the case here as we do have foreshadowing to explain why they would have been working on new techniques off screen, and we know they do train off screen.



Except that, from the moment they lost the battle in the burning mansion I don't think they actually had any time to train.


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## JoJo (Nov 24, 2012)

Why do I feel like your hating on one piece and being biased?


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## x5exotic (Nov 24, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> Why do I feel like your hating on one piece and being biased?


Why do I always feel guilty when you look at me like that 


How am I being biased :/


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## JoJo (Nov 24, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Why do I always feel guilty when you look at me like that
> 
> 
> How am I being biased :/



Seems like you just hate one piece for little to no reason, and you just saying the shittiest fights from naruto are the best.


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## x5exotic (Nov 24, 2012)

Which ones are shittiest 

I think most of them are awesome, either for choreography, or tricky-ness or just character face-off value or story-wise or character-wise.

OP, on the other hands, has pretty shitty fights. Large quantity and no quality


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## Murdoc (Nov 24, 2012)

One Piece>>>Bleach>Naruto


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## ItEndsHere (Nov 24, 2012)

B-L-E-A-C-H

No bias here


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## Stilzkin (Nov 24, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Again, just because it's mentioned before doesn't mean it doesn't make it an asspull. Bankai existed long before but they were still an ass-pull.



I don't know what you are talking about, this comment is obviously towards the wrong person.



> Which exist heavily in OP, I mean even after G2, which proved to be not that much against Lucci and Luffy got the crap beaten out of him several times, he pulled the power of friendship out of his ass and won



No.... please reread that fight. Lucci was overwhelmed by both G3 and G2. The difficulty in that fight came from the fact that the gears were destroying Luffy's body and he was weakening through out the fight. Lucci was being blitzed all over the place when Luffy first pulls it out.





> Except that, from the moment they lost the battle in the burning mansion I don't think they actually had any time to train.



Their conviction to get stronger started back during the Long islands meaning they had the trip from there to W7 to begin planning something new out. All of them seemed unsure of the new techniques when try them out in EL and the ride on the train may have given them last mintue ideas (G2 is implied to have been inspired by the trains and soru).


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## JoJo (Nov 24, 2012)

ItEndsHere said:


> B-L-E-A-C-H
> 
> No bias here



Sure, I beleive you.


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## ItEndsHere (Nov 24, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> Sure, I beleive you.


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## tanman (Nov 24, 2012)

This is tough.
In One Piece, fights can be emotional as hell, but it's usually not because of the fighting. The body language and lines during fights are always incredible. See Arlong vs. Zoro.

In Bleach, we get those beautiful full page spreads. These background-less shots look great, but when it's coupled with the focus on swordplay they seem somewhat repetitive. The mystery behind the characters involved are far more interesting than the actual fights. See Hollow Ichigo vs. Vaizards.

In Naruto, the movements are fluid (in both parts) and clever (especially in Part 1), but they oftentimes lack the intensity of emotion that the other two have.




So I'm going to go with Toriko. See Match and His Crew vs. Barrygamon.


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## JoJo (Nov 24, 2012)

Or Ichiryu and his implication of soloing the Bishikukai.


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## Stilzkin (Nov 24, 2012)

> In Naruto, the movements are fluid (in both parts) and clever (especially in Part 1), but they oftentimes lack the intensity of emotion that the other two have.



Are you kidding? Part of what was so great about part 1 Naruto was the fact that Kishi could build up the emotions behind a fight within the very fight. While Oda's strategy is to let the tension in an arc build up until we finally get to the fights Kishi used to build up tension in the very fights. This created very good weekly reads, even if this may part of the reason why Naruto's plot ended up collapsing, as the author was to stuck on the present to let things breathe.

Emotionally Kubo can't compare to OP or Naruto.



> So I'm going to go with Toriko. See Match and His Crew vs. Barrygamon.




Hope you aren't serious. I'm starting to think people side with Toriko as some sort of anti-HST stance, as if that made any sense.


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## JoJo (Nov 24, 2012)

> Hope you aren't serious. I'm starting to think people side with Toriko as some sort of anti-HST stance, as if that made any sense.



Toriko is just that good.


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## Badalight (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm amazed at how badly naruto is losing. Even to Bleach. That manga doesn't even have fights, just ink splashes. Naruto actually has decent choreography and the fights even now can still be impressive at times, it's the one area where I could say it actually surpasses One Piece.

And for the record, I don't think One Piece has very good parts at all... that's not what makes OP good. Zoro and Sanji especially has terrible fights, Luffy and Ussop pick up the slack.


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## Shock Therapy (Nov 25, 2012)

They're all pretty shit. HST is pretty garbage now.


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## taydev (Nov 25, 2012)

White Hawk said:


> Seriously dude,what's your problem with OP?
> Wherever I see you,you always go against it and talk bullshit about it.
> Just drop it already,OP doesn't need deepshits like you to read it.



He also had equally negative opinions of the other two, yet you beefed only with his thoughts on OP.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Bleach fights are repetitive, Naruto fights are shitted on by the conclusion and the emotion is not well handled at all. We've seen the same shit a million times.


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## Patrick (Nov 25, 2012)

Naruto by far. Bleach can be good at times, but it gets kind of repetitive. One Piece has a few good moments in fights, but the best parts of One Piece happen outside of the fights. With Naruto it's the opposite of One Piece, not much outside of the fights, but the fights are good. 

Even while I'm not a big fan (you shouldn't base this on which manga you prefer, stay objective) Naruto has the best fights.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Bleach fights are repetitive, Naruto fights are shitted on by the conclusion and the emotion is not well handled at all. We've seen the same shit a million times.



Well isn't that a bit....hypocritical :/


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Well isn't that a bit....hypocritical :/



How is that hypocritical? 

Are you saying that OP fights are repetitive even when something new is pulled out every time? 

Emotional wise, Naruto is shit because it recycles the same back stories and freudian excuses for the characters.

One Piece doesn't.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

For me I had more fun watching Naruto fights. Excluding backstory.

For me it would be 

-Pein fight/Itachi fight
-Ulquiorra vs Ichigo
-not sure for One Piece.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> How is that hypocritical?
> 
> Are you saying that OP fights are repetitive even when something new is pulled out every time?
> 
> ...



Well, let's see, just in the latest arc, Luffy punches CC the same way twice, and does that for pretty much every other arc the same way.
The fight conclusions always in him punching the shit out of the villain, being the people's hero and savior, and having a feast. So if there's one thing that.

So in conclusion, every fight starts and ends in the same way every time..

And quite frankly I don't see how fights or fight conclusions  in naruto are repetitive. 


As for emotions, it's handled pretty well. Most of the time. They don't try too hard and exaggerate to try and make it somehow good. They don't make them drop tears at 1000 liters per second nor do they have wrinkles that make a super saiyan's constipation look like diarrhea.

Back stories are repetitive, same can be said for both of them. 

The one thing that's a big cliche is how bad guys turn into good guys soon enough


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Don't know how some people think Naruto doesnt ass pull either and think that its ok for him to keep sprouting tails.

For Naruto:

Naruto VS Pain (Sage Mode only, and not counting the ugly Nine Tails VS Pain part)
Gaara VS Rock Lee
Naruto VS Gaara
Naruto VS Sasuke
Gaara VS Deidara
Rock Lee VS Kimimaro
Sakura & Chiyo VS Sasori
Team 10 VS Hidan & Kakuzu (amazing)
Sasuke VS Itachi

For Bleach:
Ichigo VS Grimmjow
Ichigo VS Ulquiorra
Renji VS Byakuya
Shuhei VS Findor

For One Piece:

M3:
Luffy VS Lucci
Zoro VS Mr. 1
Sanji VS Bon Clay
Luffy VS Don Krieg
Zoro VS Mihawk 
Sanji VS Kurobi
Arlong VS Zoro
Luffy VS Arlong
Luffy VS Crocodile (all 3 rounds)


Straw Hats:
SH VS Oars
Robin VS Yama
Usopp & Chopper VS Mr. 4 & Miss Merry Christmas (Genius!!)
Franky VS Fukuro
Usopp VS Luffy 

Other Major Characters:

Kizaru VS 3 Supernovas
Kizaru VS Rayleigh
Jinbe, Crocodile, Luffy VS Demon Guards
Marco VS Kizaru
WB VS Akainu (Rounds 1 & 2)
Aokiji VS WB
Mihawk VS Vista


And many, many others....


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Well, let's see, just in the latest arc, Luffy punches CC the same way twice, and does that for pretty much every other arc the same way.
> The fight conclusions always in him punching the shit out of the villain, being the people's hero and savior, and having a feast. So if there's one thing that.
> 
> So in conclusion, every fight starts and ends in the same way every time..
> ...



There's a difference between formula and cliche. 

So you're excluding the fact that in their two previous fights which were interrupted, both of them have already whipped out an arsenal of different moves? Luffy punched him straight away because CC's defeat was long overdue.

Maybe you need to re-read or start reading the manga, because there are different transitional stages in the story. Of course there are parties & feasts, because it makes for a cool resolution and every time there is diversity and creativity, something I dont see in the other 2 series, but once again this is an opinion. 

The characters crying in OP is only to signify a heartwarming or wrenching moment that doesnt come until it absolutely needs to in order to bring a main character's development forward. In Naruto, on the other hand most of them simply use their pasts as excuses and most of them don't develop at all and just wallow over it again and again (except for Naruto & Gaara), and their is no real development through sadness, only characters trying to find justifications to make themselves feel better before they do something. This is why the Naruto villains are such a fail. 

How are One Piece's backstories repetitive compared to Naruto's?

I don't see Naruto being able to wrap up and create subplots while inviting relevant characters into that same space and allowing them to contribute to a certain plot point like a backstory in OP does, not to mention, with Naruto it's the same sob story over and over again to hammer the same theme into our heads, whereas in a backstory of OP, the themes vary a lot and there are wayyy more different thematic elements in the world building and structure of its setting.

Sometimes people need to recognize something's decline, and stop trying to equalize their quality and say that "well both of them are this, and both of them are that", when one of them is clearly inferior.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

I find Naruto fights have a more large DBZ style to them compared to OP(not counting Marine Ford). Bleach of course is kind of bland. Especially when the main attack going around is GT.


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## KLoWn (Nov 25, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> Sometimes people need to recognize something's decline, and stop trying to equalize their quality and say that "well both of them are this, and both of them are that", when one of them is clearly inferior.


This discussion was more interesting to read when you were actually trying to hide your bias.


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## VanzZz (Nov 25, 2012)

> shit about One Piece
>  x5exotic in it

> :allmyryoma


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## Adamant soul (Nov 25, 2012)

I like One Piece's fights the most of the three of them though I must admit Kenpachi fights and Kenpachi in general were always a reason to keep me reading Bleach though I ditched it after the Ichigo vs Aizen bulls**t. Naruto used to have brilliant fights before Part 2 started, Rock Lee vs Gaara is still my favourite Naruto fight to this day, I do admit Itachi vs Sasuke was great though.

One Piece is just loaded with really good fights especially when you hit the Grand Line stuff though I really enjoyed Luffy vs Arlong, that fight had great build up, use of the environment, great tactics on Luffy's part not to mention he was the first One Piece villain who could really challenge Luffy physically. The ending of the fight was great too. There are better fights like Luffy vs Lucci, Zoro vs Kaku, Luffy vs Usopp, Whitebeard vs Akainu and others. So yeah One Piece wins this.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

KLoWn said:


> This discussion was more interesting to read when you were actually trying to hide your bias.



This discussion was already below average, intelligence wise when you actually ever thought I made a effort to hide my opinion, or better yet, you're denial in comparing consistency to cat shit.


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## Zeno (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> *I find Naruto fights have a more large DBZ style* to them compared to OP(not counting Marine Ford). Bleach of course is kind of bland. Especially when the main attack going around is GT.



Nice try, but compared to DBZ style, Naruto is actually terrible.


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## CandyCocaine (Nov 25, 2012)

The argument Luffy's rubber powers are bland is so ironic. Like that's all he has at his disposal minus Haki and makes such good use out of it.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Adamant soul said:


> I like One Piece's fights the most of the three of them though *I must admit Kenpachi fights and Kenpachi in general were always a reason to keep me reading Bleach* though I ditched it after the Ichigo vs Aizen bulls**t. Naruto used to have brilliant fights before Part 2 started, Rock Lee vs Gaara is still my favourite Naruto fight to this day, I do admit Itachi vs Sasuke was great though.
> 
> One Piece is just loaded with really good fights especially when you hit the Grand Line stuff though I really enjoyed Luffy vs Arlong, that fight had great build up, use of the environment, great tactics on Luffy's part not to mention he was the first One Piece villain who could really challenge Luffy physically. The ending of the fight was great too. There are better fights like Luffy vs Lucci, Zoro vs Kaku, Luffy vs Usopp, Whitebeard vs Akainu and others. So yeah One Piece wins this.



Yea I felt the same way about his fights.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Zengetto said:


> Nice try, but compared to DBZ style, Naruto is actually terrible.


Explosions and shit wise. It was grand to me. Think I'm going to make a new thread now about manga fights in general.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> There's a difference between formula and cliche.


which doesn't matter because both exist.



> So you're excluding the fact that in their two previous fights which were interrupted, both of them have already whipped out an arsenal of different moves? Luffy punched him straight away because CC's defeat was long overdue.


Asspulls and the frequency thereof are repetitive



> Maybe you need to re-read or start reading the manga, because there are different transitional stages in the story. Of course there are parties & feasts, because it makes for a cool resolution and every time there is *diversity and creativity*, something I dont see in the other 2 series, but once again this is an opinion.



Hardly, not with all the repetition. That's one thing OP never had except for Skypiea.



> The characters crying in OP is only to signify a heartwarming or wrenching moment that doesnt come until it *absolutely needs* to in order to bring a main character's development forward. In Naruto, on the other hand most of them simply use their pasts as excuses and most of them don't develop at all and just wallow over it again and again (except for Naruto & Gaara), and their is no real development through sadness, only characters trying to find justifications to make themselves feel better before they do something. This is why the Naruto villains are such a fail.


Which is pretty much every single time.
Yea that's really absolutely needed. Not to mention Oda doesn't even bother to draw their expressions differently.
And it being exaggerated is what people need to know that this is a heart-wrenching moment? They're just making it funny. It's just badly executed.
Most of them don't develop at all? Since when does ANY character in OP have development? There is a huge difference between development and *screen time* And since when did this turn to a character discussion? Well no biggie






> How are One Piece's backstories repetitive compared to Naruto's?


How is Naruto's Backstories repetitive compared to OP's?



> I don't see Naruto being able to wrap up and create subplots while inviting relevant characters into that same space and allowing them to contribute to a certain plot point like a backstory in OP does, not to mention, with Naruto it's the same sob story over and over again to hammer the same theme into our heads, whereas in a backstory of OP, the themes vary a lot and there are wayyy more different thematic elements in the world building and structure of its setting.



Themes that are half-assed and shallow. And no. With generic villains as the ones in OP, there can hardly be any theme other than the typical shonen one. Try again.
Kabuto's story was redundant, but no, pain, itachi and zabuza all had different pasts, just because they all actually well-executed doesn't make them the same. Sure everyone's pissed off about the revival thing with pain but it doesn't mean his story was bad.



> Sometimes people need to recognize something's decline, and stop trying to equalize their quality and say that "well both of them are this, and both of them are that"


Something you need to realize. And why should I stop? You're pointing out something and labeling it as bad, then praising the same thing if it's in your manga, which is, as I said, hypocritical.



> when one of them is *clearly* inferior.


Then please, clarify.


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## KLoWn (Nov 25, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> This discussion was already below average, intelligence wise when you actually ever thought I made a effort to hide my opinion, or better yet, you're denial in comparing consistency to cat shit.


Well I guess the crusade of an overzealous OPtard might be amusing to watch too.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

CandyCocaine said:


> The argument Luffy's rubber powers are bland is so ironic. Like that's all he has at his disposal minus Haki and makes such good use out of it.



Isn't it? Rubber punch+haki= Cero+ Reiatsu crush


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> which doesn't matter because both exist.
> 
> Asspulls and the frequency thereof are repetitive
> 
> ...



Asspulls? DF users train with their abilities and it's already been made clear it's part of their arsenal in their powers. CC didn't pull things from his ass, he pulled the techniques of his DF that he knew. The same goes for Luffy, and his 2 year training was for developing new techniques, and so these aren't ass pulls.

Hahahahahaha, so you're saying there's hardly any creativity when we have extensive world building, incredibly well designed and original islands, interesting races, well established locations, and settings which fit every theme that transpires throughout each arc?

You're just bitching about the artwork when you call the crying scenes "badly executed" cause you are used to emo and flat bishie character expressions of Naruto. No development??? Are you shitting me?? So the many defeats Luffy and his crew have suffered does not give them any character development at all? Especially when it makes Luffy just realize how small he is in the scope of things and in the grand scheme of the world? No development when Zoro realized that one's own ambition could possibly be more important than any other goal a person can have, and to dedicate one's own mind, soul and body to at least trying to move closer to that ambition, regardless of success of failure, as well as then having him cast that pride and ambition to the side when put in a situation where his loyalty to his captain is tested to the most is not development? Usopp realizing that he has been a drag not just because of his lack of power but his personality, which hinders the crew, and so it makes him want to hone himself so that he can actually back up the things he used to lie and claim about is not development? NO YOU TRY AGAIN

Generic Villains? And you are calling them generic when comparing them to the many tragic villains in Naruto where most of their motives are stupid at best? It is true that Itachi and Kisame were truly the only respectable "villains" of their series, but every other villain in Naruto is motivated by nothing more than sad pasts, and Nagato is the worse of the bunch because meeting a random 16 year old kid completely overrides everything he has believed for the last couple of decades, oh yea, GREAT character development.

Arlong: A racist Fishman whom is the epitome of what villainy should be, and is driven by a racial disdain of the humans whom he tries to trample on, and Arlong, who slowly and excruciatingly torment the villagers mentally as well through he and his crew's abuse of the village, and then letting a woman build up hope in her heart, so that she would think that once she had gathered enough money to buy the village from him and gain freedom, which she has been gathering for the majority of her life, he then takes it all away from her and extinguishes her hopes. Yea, generic huh?

Don Krieg: A pragmatic villain who plays dirty and is known by his epithet, "Foul Play", and someone who is genre savvy enough to use an act of kindness and obligation to his advantage which spins forth a set of events.

Crocodile: A chessmaster, whose level of preparation supersedes fathomable scenarios by miles in front of one that any normal person could come up with. Every precaution he came up with to foil the Straw Hats would have worked had he worked out the one dent to his plans: Mr. Prince (Sanji). 
Not to mention, he used the government's sanction on him as warlord to stay posted at Alabasta, and then raise his reputation as the city's guardian and hero whom slays the pirates there and does a more efficient job than the city guards themselves, so that he could raise his publicity and renown in the public eye to beyond that of the king, just so it would make his orchestrated civil war all the easier, before using even the lack of water supply to turn even the loyalists and rebels against each other, before placing his own assassins on both sides to complicate matters further and add fuel to the fire.

Enel: A thematic villain whose very ability is the cause of his self-appointed divinity. Showing Nero-esque levels of intolerance and someone whom has an utter disregard for those he deem below them due to their complete obsolete abilities against him as well as their helplessness before his power. Not only is he affably evil and wicked cultured, he also wants to destroy an entire island just because it defies physics, when it wouldnt even matter in the long shots of his plans anyways, not to mention that the way he used his abilities to move the Maxim just proves his mastery of his abilities.

Blackbeard: An even more well prepared villain whom reminds people just how potentially effective it is as a strategy to remain low profile. Having the patience to wait on WB's ship for over 20 years if not more so that he could obtain an ability he wished to have, and then causing a massive war and using it as a diversion as well in addition to the entry his warlord status grants, which was the only reason he wanted to be a warlord, just to get a few stronger crew mates, before going head on into the New World, and then using his prior knowledge of WB's territory and his own experience to control them. 

Doflamingo: A chaotically evil, sadistic, psychotic pirate whom uses the benefits of his rank to cover up a 200 year old human slave ring business to the nobles, which then indirectly puts him in the good books with the Celestial Dragons, and then in actuality, his slavery business itself was ALSO just a cover and a front business for an even larger facet of business activity he is involved in, which involves weapon trading, manufacture and production of DFs based on a mad scientist's formula, before selling them to prominent figures, so that it would support his network, the largest broker organization in the world. Someone who's ideals are an absense of ideals and morality, which borders on abandoning romanticism and focusing on reality itself. 

Akainu: A zealot and ruthless General Ripper whom values his own extreme ideal more than his very own life, which has gotten him hurt physically. Someone who does not display a second of hesitance and does not even stop to ponder for a second about ethics and instead is a well intentioned extremist taken overboard. A violent person whose ruthless tendencies extent to even defenseless obstacles whom stand in his way and path of genocidal hate.

Uh...yea, no one in the naruto verse are better designed as villains than  any of those guys ^^

Themes that are half assed and shallow?
Like a goverment which wipes out 800 years worth of historical record to cover up their heinous history? Like a man(Ace) whose father was the Pirate King, and thus considered the worst criminal in the world and constantly lived under his shadow as a child where that very heritage hammered in the notion in his head that even his hypothetical existence was a sin? That very same man whom never had a father but managed to find solace and acceptance in a crew's family dynamics which made him realize what it would be like if he indeed had one, and  showed him how his heritage didn't matter as they were all outcasts at some point but have all found common ground under a great man whom they admire? Like a theme where traditional customs and an awareness of science and progress collide in a land where progress rarely reaches?(Calgara & Noland), and that same collision is what led to the island's inhabitants having a new outlook on the theme of divinity and what a god is? A theme where a boy was saved by a pirate whom gave him food supply when they were stranded on an island but ate his own leg instead and hid the fact that he had no food to begin with from the same boy, whom when he grew up, was obliged to return that favor despite the fact that their completely opposite approaches causes argument on the surface, but when it comes down to it, that same boy and man breaks down in tears the moment he realizes he is about to bid farewell to the man whom gave up his own career and leg so that the weak and emaciated child all those years would live on? Like a theme where two men of technically enemy relations (WB & Shanks), were familiar with each other and had mutual respect, and that this same mutual respect was what led to Shanks intercepting Kaido and burying WB, so that he could PRESERVE WB's image as it was in his days of reverance, and to reaffirm that this same old man whom was sick, dying, and of ill health died proudly, keeping his honor intact and his life's pride, unhinged? 
You might be reading a different story.


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## Zeno (Nov 25, 2012)

I think that may be the biggest wall of text I've seen to date.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

It's disgusting to look at too.


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## Sablés (Nov 25, 2012)

Rustled status: infinity. :sanji


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## Gabe (Nov 25, 2012)

rasengan or Gt i really care about the other tech


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

I just read a bit of it and excuse you Luke, but you forgot to mention Naruto's Zabuza and Orochimaru(no matter how creepy he was and made irrelevant in pt.2)


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> I just read a bit of it and excuse you Luke, but you forgot to mention Naruto's Zabuza and Orochimaru(no matter how creepy he was and made irrelevant in pt.2)



Yea Zabuza for sure

Not Orochimaru, the guy had a freudian excuse.


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## Sablés (Nov 25, 2012)

Orochimaru was boss, same with Pre-identified Pain. .


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

~King of Heroes~ said:


> Orochimaru was boss, same with Pre-identified Pain. .



Yea Pain's 180 was the biggest troll in history. 

Orochimaru at least doesn't suggest that his parents' death were DIRECTLY the cause of what he is, but it was implied by Jirayia. 
It's one of those, "Poor Villain" moments.

Same thing happened with Aizen after he got beaten, when Ichigo thought he was lonely. It's the same concept, where an implication is suggested and brought forward to hint and attempt to justify some of their actions.

Good villains don't need to justify their actions if they are horrible. Some good villains are just smoother at doing it and precise.

Tragic pasts don't necessarily make a good villain at all. We all know this.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Still, Naruto fights>>Bleach fights.


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## Zeno (Nov 25, 2012)

Yes, a generic spiral attack will always be better than a generic wave/slash attack. That said, I did rather enjoy the H2 vs Ulquiorra fight.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

I like how the main villains in Naruto Pt.2 motivation is war ruined their lives and thus everyone must pay. It would usually work only the first time.


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## Zeno (Nov 25, 2012)

Pretty much everyone in Naruto has a sad history of some kind. One has to wonder how many times Kishi can recycle the same back-story.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> I like how the main villains in Naruto Pt.2 motivation is war ruined their lives and thus everyone must pay. It would usually work only the first time.



I felt for Sasori at first, and it was probably cause he wasn't ranting about his emptiness and the loss of his parents like so many others have. We know it happened, but he doesn't address it himself, so it does elevate my respect for him. Same goes for Itachi & Kisame whom actually had strong convictions.

Deidara has no sad past, and he's just a crazy friend, which makes him a great villain due to how terrorist-like he was, but what brought him down was PIS and his unnecessary inferiority complex. 

The rest are even bigger pussays


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Sad backstories can go to Rave Master villains.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Luke Kent said:


> Asspulls? DF users train with their abilities and it's already been made clear it's part of their arsenal in their powers. CC didn't pull things from his ass, he pulled the techniques of his DF that he knew. The same goes for Luffy, and his 2 year training was for developing new techniques, and so these aren't ass pulls.



It's also clear that Kyuubi is part of the arsenal and he's just using more of it. Same with Bankai. 
What about pre-time-skip luffy? And all the fairy tail power of friendship that makes him win fights?



> Hahahahahaha, so you're saying there's hardly any creativity when we have extensive world building, incredibly well designed and original islands, interesting races, well established locations, and settings which fit every theme that transpires throughout each arc?



Original? Please tell me all about how there's no such thing called Final Fantasy...or fiction at all.

As for races, no they aren't. Randomly mashed up =/= creative. 



> You're just bitching about the artwork when you call the crying scenes "badly executed" cause you are used to emo and flat bishie character expressions of Naruto. No development??? Are you shitting me?? So the many defeats Luffy and his crew have suffered does not give them any character development at all? Especially when it makes Luffy just how small he is in the scope of things and in the grand scheme of the world? No development when Zoro realized that one's own ambition could possibly be more important than any other goal a person can have, and to dedicate one's own mind, soul and body to at least trying to move closer to that ambition, regardless of success of failure, as well as then having him cast that pride and ambition to the side when put in a situation where his loyalty to his captain is tested to the most is not development? Usopp realizing that he has been a drag not just because of his lack of power but his personality, which hinders the crew, and so it makes him want to hone himself so that he can actually back up the things he used to lie and claim about is not development? NO YOU TRY AGAIN




No, I'm bitching about trying too hard. And still not making it.

Oooooh you think a character being defeated is development? By that logic, same goes for Naruto, Ichigo, Chad, Ishhin, and I could go on but I'll throw in TenTen. Luffy always "almost" loses and then asspulls his way out. Except during Shabody, but that's just the halfway point build-up...Naruto lost to Sasuke at the same point relatively. But we both know they'll win at the end. Same cliche shit in both series. Sasuke's part 1 dev. was pretty good actually. Unlike the 2nd half. But it's better than no dev. at all.
Look at any of the characters now, look at them 700 chapters before:
All the same just Nami and Robin are more slutty. Try again, last try.




> Generic Villains? And you are calling them generic when comparing them to the many tragic villains in Naruto where most of their motives are stupid at best? It is true that Itachi and Kisame were truly the only respectable "villains" of their series, but every other villain in Naruto is motivated by nothing more than sad pasts, and Nagato is the worse of the bunch because meeting a random 16 year old kid completely overrides everything he has believed for the last couple of decades, oh yea, GREAT character development.


 
Funny since every damn OP villain wants to either take over something, an island, a mansion, a restaurant. Real estate ftw. Designs and powers are the only thing that sets OP villains apart, and that's why they're generic.

Zabuza, Orochimaru (until he got fucked up, but he's back so that's hope for redemption) , Danzo...really OP has no chance in this department.

Robin meeting a 17 year-old overrides all the emo-ness in her. Also for almost 2 decades lol. And not only robin, pretty much at least one person suffers from this shit almost every arc.


Arlong: The bad guy who hurt nami, takes over her home, makes them suffer for it.

Don Krieg: Tries to take over a restaurant.

Crocodile: Tries to take over alabasta, wears a coat so he must be smart. Doesn't tolerate mistakes yet he failed to kill luffy twice when he had the chance and let Sanji make a retard out of him

Enel: The bad guy with a god complex

Blackbeard: I like him 



Doflamingo: I like him

Akainu: Typical "for the greater good" villain

Like how you try to make them different by giving them different adjectives which just show how shallow they are.


Themes that are half assed and shallow?


> Like a goverment which wipes out 800 years worth of historical record to cover up their heinous history?


OMG a conspiracy. Does it offer anything different? No. The idea is very cool. But Oda decides to write shitty subplots about crack babies than expand on it.
Verdict: HALF-ASSED



> Like a man(Ace) whose father was the Pirate King, and thus considered the worst criminal in the world and constantly lived under his shadow as a child where that very heritage hammered in the notion in his head that even his hypothetical existence was a sin?



Just like...Gaara? Except it was half-assed and not even bothered with...



> That very same man whom never had a father but managed to find solace and acceptance in a crew's family dynamics which made him realize what it would be like if he indeed had one, and  showed him how his heritage didn't matter as they were all outcasts at some point but have all found common ground under a great man whom they admire?



I'm pretty sure you're talking about Naruto Uzumaki now...



> Like a theme where traditional customs and an awareness of science and progress collide in a land where progress rarely reaches?



Like Avatar, except, HALF-ASSED



> and that same collision is what led to the island's inhabitants having a new outlook on the theme of divinity and what a god is


Changing from state A to B isn't development or at least not  a deep one, it's HOW it happens. 




> A theme where a boy was saved by a pirate whom gave him food supply when they were stranded on an island but ate his own leg instead and hid the fact that he had no food to begin with from the same boy


,

Reminds me of the bugs bunny ep where two half-wits are stranted and imagine each other as being food...
Yes, Zeff was badass. And that was a good theme. It kinda makes all of Toriko pointless, but still not that iconic.



> whom when he grew up, was obliged to return that favor despite the fact that their completely opposite approaches causes argument on the surface,



Okay now that's just BS....bickering is a recurring cliche and is repetitive, nothing more. 



> but when it comes down to it, that same boy and man breaks down in tears the moment he realizes he is about to bid farewell to the man whom gave up his own career and leg so that the weak and emaciated child all those years would live on?




Just. Like. Every. Other. Straw hat. Recruit.





> Like a theme where two men of technically enemy relations (WB & Shanks), were familiar with each other and had mutual respect, and that this same mutual respect was what led to Shanks intercepting Kaido and burying WB, so that he could PRESERVE WB's image as it was in his days of reverance, and to reaffirm that this same old man whom was sick, dying, and of ill health died proudly, keeping his honor intact and his life's pride, unhinged.


That's as deep as Hanzo x Nagato x Jiraiya x Konoha

I guess every alliance between big characters is a theme and is considered deep and good storytelling 

Honoring someone's death is automatically that as well  

You're just trying too hard to just make tl;dr posts like a Wikia page trying to make them deep...


Zabuza, the one who thinks he's just a killing tool and so is Haku and uses him that way...that has SOME depth to it.
Pain's outlook and vengeful nature. Why is it ok for Naruto to hate and want to kill him for what he did to Konoha, when Nagato's doing all of it for the same reason? And how Naruto actually saw his point and temporarily agreed with him. There was some development afterward which was ruined not too long after, but still....  for what it's worth..

Then you got other villains like Danzo, Orochimaru, Itachi. 





Just because most of them suffered doesn't make them the same.

And don't forget: All Strawhats have a sad past too.  I guess they're all recycled.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 25, 2012)

no large gap for me between any of them


maybe OP = Naruto >= Bleach


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This argument is gonna go forever, *sigh*

Nah the Straw hats' pasts actually have variety, while all the akatsuki's pasts are just products of war.

All of the things you called half ass have more depth than Naruto could ever hope to have in god help it, one chapter at least.

No i wasnt talking about Naruto Uzumaki, I was talking about the WB Pirates.


Pain's overriding and Robin's are totally different. Naruto talks Pain into change, while we see the whole process from Water 7 to Enies Lobby, so no you try again, or might as well stop, it's game over.

Luffy doesn't get fairy tail power ups. Most of the people he has defeated such as Lucci were on the same level as him EL. Enel's defeat was due to ability. Crocodile beat him twice, and lost once, so in all fairness, Croc still won. 

As for Zabuza's past, yea I agree, I liked his backstory.

Pain's? Nah it was BS, repetitive & cliche, nothing more.

The cycle of hatred has been done a hundred times already, nothing new.

Speaking of HOW something changes, the development of One Piece is superior imo. It just takes insight to understand. Shitty subplots? Yea, taking the LEAST impressive one which is the Crack Babies subplot and then using it as an example to highlight all the quality in subplots in the series just shows that you clearly are just as bias as you claim me to be.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Variety = shallow, they all caused harm to someone by letting them die, or lose a limb. That's the gist of it. Oranges, food, sword skills come second. That's why the differences are insignificant. 

Crack babies = impressive  the bias is strong in this one.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Luffy is more like Goku in power ups. Not Natsu or Ichigo.


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## Stilzkin (Nov 25, 2012)

> Funny since every damn OP villain wants to either take over something, an island, a mansion, a restaurant. Real estate ftw. Designs and powers are the only thing that sets OP villains apart, and that's why they're generic.



Villains whose actual goals involve taking over islands:

Hody
Wapol (retaking)



> Robin meeting a 17 year-old overrides all the emo-ness in her.



I don't understand why anyone takes you seriously when you are so stupidly biased.

Are you unable to understand Robin's story? 

You are a joke of a poster seriously.



> Arlong: The bad guy who hurt nami, takes over her home, makes them suffer for it.



Zabuza: The bad guy who tries to kill an old man multiple times, fails, and when his underage lover dies starts crying.


See you can skip over and oversimplify anything and if you remain adamant on doing so there is no point in a discussing the subject.


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## ZE (Nov 25, 2012)

Reducing the fights in the naruto manga to rasengan spam, are we? Let’s see how many rasengans we saw in the following fights: 

Gaara vs Lee (none), Naruto vs Neji (none), Third Hokage vs Oro (none), Naruto vs Gaara (none), Shikamaru vs Tayuya (none), Neji vs Kidomaro (none), Lee vs Kimimaro (none), Gaara vs Kimimaro (none), Naruto vs Sasuke (I think he only used it twice), Naruto vs Orochimaru (none), Kakashi and co vs Kakuzu and Hidan (Naruto used two FRS I think), Sasuke vs Deidara (none), Pain vs Jiraiya (one), Sasuke vs Itachi (none), Naruto and co vs Tobi (if you call that a fight, Naruto used rasengan once), Sasuke vs Bee (none).

Although from the Naruto vs Pain fight on, I’ve got to admit naruto spammed the rasengan way too many times. But most of them were variants of the tech. But it does suck to see Naruto use rasengan when he could just blow his opponent’s head off with a sage punch.




As for the cycle of hatred bullshit, which hurts the manga so badly, that’s more of a flaw of the plot. Here we’re discussing the fights. 




And since I didn’t mention bleach yet, my favorite bleach fight is Ichigo vs Kempachi. 
Bleach is one of those mangas where the weekly fighting chapters can make the fight itself look worse than what really is due to the pace. It’s like Hajime no Ippo. When you have all the chapters and read them in one go bleach has some of the best shounen fights.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> Variety = shallow, they all caused harm to someone by letting them die, or lose a limb. That's the gist of it. Oranges, food, sword skills come second. That's why the differences are insignificant.
> 
> Crack babies = impressive  the bias is strong in this one.



Did u just miss what I said?? I said the LEAST impressive. It was even in caps


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## Huntring (Nov 25, 2012)

Part 1 Naruto had some of the best fights.

So meh.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Stilzkin said:


> Villains whose actual goals involve taking over islands:
> 
> Hody
> Wapol (retaking)



And Arlong, Krieg, Croc, Kuro (not islands, give or take area size)





> I don't understand why anyone takes you seriously when you are so stupidly biased.
> 
> Are you unable to understand Robin's story?
> 
> You are a joke of a poster seriously.



And you don't understand Nagato's story 




> Zabuza: The bad guy who tries to kill an old man multiple times, fails, and when his underage lover dies starts crying.


I think there's more to it than that, but seeing how simple OP is, I get why this is all you got out of it.



> See you can skip over and oversimplify anything and if you remain adamant on doing so there is no point in a discussing the subject.




Except in OP it's actually THAT simple. The themes are childish. 
But again a poster who posts the same stuff about oversimplifying shit when they over-analyze shit themselves. Whatevs. 

The point is: OP is far more repetitive than Naruto and uses more recycled fights, issues, villains and storylines. But that Kent dude is so biased he sees the faults in naruto as strengths in OP. 

As for depth, don't kid yourself. Neither is deep. Naruto does have a few moments of that though.


As for why people take me seriously: You tell me, you're the one who's upset 




@luke oh, my bad. It's just that most of them are the same quality as Crack Babies. So yeah. Seems you didn't read my post either; conspiracy subplot (best one) is being neglected and is therefore half-assed in favor of a very bad one. So yea. That's exactly why I chose it. 
None impressive that are on my mind atm anyway


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Of course you're oversimplifying.

It's apparent when you just see Akainu as another "for the greater good villain" rather than looking at the many different factors in what makes up his principle, such as blind obedience, and things that border on ethnic cleansing, as well as even overlapping the fact that as a man of his high authority, he has an example to set as well.

You oversimply these things and call OP simple and childish, when it's depth and story telling will be more multi dimensional than naruto's will ever be. 


Characters in Naruto have good development?? Look at the Konoha 11, their development is superb, right?!!!!.....except, too bad Kishi decided to drop a bridge on them before part 2 even started.
You call me biased, when you are the one who constantly leans to an insubstantial backstory and call it well developed.


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## Huntring (Nov 25, 2012)

Do we have to do this guys? 

In the end it's based on subjective tastes and this is the internet. 

Getting into such a arguement isn't worth the time nor the effort.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

Huntring said:


> Do we have to do this guys?
> 
> In the end it's based on subjective tastes and this is the internet.
> 
> Getting into such a arguement isn't worth the time nor the effort.



Okay fair enough.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

And of course you're oversimplifying when you see Sasuke as an emo bishie.

But really, seriously, what is Akainu, and without trying to sound like some medieval herald...The bad guy who does bad things for the greater good. And so happens he does them against our heroes, so we hate him. So really, you're the ones trying to complicate it in order to sound deep and mature.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Huntring said:


> Do we have to do this guys?
> 
> In the end it's based on subjective tastes and this is the internet.
> 
> Getting into such a arguement isn't worth the time nor the effort.



New Dante is best Dante

Also, want deep? Play Halo 4.


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## Stilzkin (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> And Arlong, Krieg, Croc, Kuro (not islands, give or take area size)



Arlong - already had the island........ That arc involved them taking the island away from him, nice reading skills there. 

If you are going for their end goals you would still be wrong as Arlong had taken over multiple towns in order to raise money and wait until the right time to make his move against humans, by controlling trading routes.

Krieg- Taking Baratie was an immediate goal, one so short termed for the character that you might as well say the goal of all the villains in the series have been to defeat Luffy.

Krieg's ship was destroyed that very arc and he needed a new ship because of that, his goal was to return to GL after his previous defeat.

Croc- A bit more confusing. Was his actual goal to create his own nation or was it a rouse he created when forming BW? We know he wanted Pluton, and that was his eye objective, whether he actually wanted control of Alabasta or not. To obtain it he would have at least needed tempoary control of the nation, according to his belief of where Pluton was hidden. The coverstorys reveal his true goal has always been to be PK, this may have been what he wanted Pluton for or perhaps, like Moria, he was leading a life of self-deception after his defeat by WB.

Kuro - He wanted Kaya's money, where does actually try to take over the island?




> And you don't understand Nagato's story



Really now?

Please quote the portion of my post which shows my ignorance of Nagato's story.

Here's a quote of you failing to have a 5 year old's reading skills:



> Robin meeting a 17 year-old overrides all the emo-ness in her.



and here's one of you failing to read to the end of a post:



> I think there's more to it than that, but seeing how simple OP is, I get why this is all you got out of it.






> As for depth, don't kid yourself. Neither is deep. Naruto does have a few moments of that though.
> 
> As for why people take me seriously: You tell me, you're the one who's upset



You are underplaying the writing in OP. If you really do this in real life I wonder what the point is in you reading anything. If this all one big show I have to wonder why you do it. I bullshit and post sarcastically every now and then but to have some sort of alternate persona on a forum in the belief that you are agitating people seems pathtic.

No, I am not upset. I am pointing out to the other posters why they should not bother having any sort of discussion with you.


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## Huntring (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> New Dante is best Dante





Tell me OS, on a scale of 10 to 10 how bad do you want to get negged.



> Also, want deep? Play Halo 4.



I was told by more reliable sources that it sucked.  

Also I like how this thread's starting to get of topic.


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## Mihawk (Nov 25, 2012)

x5exotic said:


> And of course you're oversimplifying when you see Sasuke as an emo bishie.
> 
> But really, seriously, what is Akainu, and without trying to sound like some medieval herald...The bad guy who does bad things for the greater good. And so happens he does them against our heroes, so we hate him. So really, you're the ones trying to complicate it in order to sound deep and mature.



And you are trying to overcomplicate people like Danzo, as if he isnt the same type of villain. 
Yes, Sasuke has development, but his development is reliant on mood swings, which makes it irritable. Whether you believe it or not, I did not have Sasuke in mind when i was making that comment. I was thinking along the lines of Nagato, Edo Madara, etc when refering to emo bishies, but i guess sasuke fits the bill pretty well. 

And LOL at you thinking that Ace's back story is even remotely similar to Gaara's. It's in totally different contexts.

I highly doubt you have read the manga at full but then again you would just say the same about me, and this argument would just turn into a game of pointing fingers. 

So fuck it. Stilzkin already stated what was important.

You truly overlooked Robin's entire back story.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Huntring said:


> Tell me OS, on a scale of 10 to 10 how bad do you want to get negged.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



4can? because I hear from everyone it was awesome and playing it myself I agree. Not sure if game of the year because of handsome jack.


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## Huntring (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> 4can? because I hear from everyone it was awesome and playing it myself I agree. Not sure if game of the year because of handsome jack.



Heard from OBD convo actually.

Not like I'll ever play it though.  To lazy to get into a new series.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Nov 25, 2012)

OS you like Donte ?


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## Huntring (Nov 25, 2012)

Fluttershy said:


> OS you like Donte ?



OS sees Donte in himself.  Or is it the other way around?


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

Huntring said:


> Heard from OBD convo actually.
> 
> Not like I'll ever play it though.  To lazy to get into a new series.



Lolconvo

Pretty sure Plat likes it


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

1) i failed to read nothing. I was using his logic against him. If nagato's story is so simple
Then by logic so is robin's. Again we're talking about how biased he is.
My whole previous post just to show how his logic is messed up in favor of op even if op does it the same or worse. Showing HIM that he's underplaying. You fail to understand and then complain about my reading comprehension (y) same for you kent.

2) so arlongs big plan is to take over more stuff... You are a genius debater.
Krieg: fair enough, still not that outstanding.
3) really? You sen to be upset. First of all i was only talking about the fights until that guy strayed away trying to avoid answering the actual questions. Blinded by his hate for naruto which is the cool thing now i guess. Again, both are really simple stories and no im not underplaying either. .

4) what's really pathetic is  trying to act like a shrink. Alternate persona? Seriously?Belief that im... What? Im sorry if my posts get to you that much but, try not to take it personal... Whatever it is you're actually taking
5) then why are you discussing stuff with me. 
And boo-hoo. 


Again you avoid my actual pointa that are related to topic: OP is more repetitive than Naruto and uses more recycled fights.


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## Adamant soul (Nov 25, 2012)

Stilzkin said:


> Arlong - already had the island........ That arc involved them taking the island away from him, nice reading skills there.
> 
> If you are going for their end goals you would still be wrong as Arlong had taken over multiple towns in order to raise money and wait until the right time to make his move against humans, by controlling trading routes.
> 
> ...



Just wanted to say Kuro wanted "inner peace", Kaya's money and manor were merely his means of getting it.

I like how this guy tries to say every OP villain is the same and generic yet if you actually compare the ideology, methodology and overall personalities you realise they are completely different and unique. Seriously, compare Buggy to Kuro, Crocodile to Lucci, Enel to Arlong, Kizaru to Akainu. There is almost nothing about any of these guys that is in anyway similar.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Slightly different approach that is not even explored. In the end it is all executed and dealt with in the same way, with his overall goal and even sometimes method being the same as the others. 

But I guess Aizen, Juha and Ginjou are all deep as well 



@adamant Let's review what I actually said non-sarcastically to avoid being confused like Stilzkin or Kent:

OP fight conclusions usually end in the same way (sometimes exactly) which makes fight conclusions repetitive.
Same for fight openings. And overall arc endings.
Whereas in Naruto, the fights, combat wise, end completely differently.

Of course story-wise it ends in the cliche bad-turn-good story which is only justified twice. 

As for emotions: Just as much as Naruto villains have the "same" sad past, same goes for SH pirates. Yes there are minor differences in *both*. 

Every fault in Naruto kent mentions exists in OP
and every praise in OP is in Naruto as well. Crying in an exaggerated way "signifies" that this is a sad scene....no shit sherlock -.-

I'll leave you 2 in peace now 


Also who the hell just said new Dante is better  
 
PS: when's new DMC coming out?


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Gear 3-enhanced facepalm with a rasengan to my face.


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## JoJo (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm not reading through all the Bullshit, I'd like to know exotic, so you're saying that OP is the same as Naruto ex: same villains, protags, ect. yet you voted for naruto?


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## ZE (Nov 25, 2012)

C'mon now. Can't believe we're comparing OP's villains to those in naruto. 
I mean, look at this list: Blackbeard, Donflamingo, Akainu. It doesn't get better than this. 

The best naruto has is Orochimaru, and Pain before Nagato was revealed. In Pain's case the whole hatred sub-story actually helped to establish a rivalry between Naruto and Pain. Too bad Kishi didn't expand on it.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

ZE said:


> C'mon now. Can't believe we're comparing OP's villains to those in naruto.
> I mean, look at this list: *Blackbeard, Donflamingo, Akainu. It doesn't get better than this. *
> 
> The best naruto has is Orochimaru, and Pain before Nagato was revealed. In Pain's case the whole hatred sub-story actually helped to establish a rivalry between Naruto and Pain. Too bad Kishi didn't expand on it.



Yes it can. Just not in OP terms.


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## ZE (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> Yes it can. Just not in OP terms.



Villains as good as those three I only remember Freeza and Griffith.  But then again, I haven?t read as many mangas as most people here. And I?m sure I?m forgetting some others.


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

ZE said:


> Villains as good as those three I only remember Freeza and Griffith.  But then again,* I haven?t read as many mangas as most people here.* And I?m sure I?m forgetting some others.



Explains it. Also, Cell=Cooler>Frieza.

Just saiyan.


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## ItEndsHere (Nov 25, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> Explains it. Also, Cell=Cooler>Frieza.
> 
> Just saiyan.



How dare you mention Lord Frieza's name in an opinionated statement that ends with 'Saiyan'


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## OS (Nov 25, 2012)

TFS Freiza>DB Freiza


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## Intus Legere (Nov 25, 2012)

Naruto. Especially in Part I, when tactics were a huge part of the battles. Then it became more and more about tiers, inconsistent power levels, landscape-altering moves, and whatnot. One Piece and Bleach's battles are more simple, one-dimensional, even their powers are so. 

I'm not a big fan of the concept of tiers, but just as an example: Kakuzu might be a bad match-up for Gaara from a close range, with his _Raiton: Gian_, even if Gaara is several tiers above Kakuzu; in Bleach or One Piece, if someone from a higher tier fights someone from a lower tier, rarely you will get an unexpected result.

This doesn't mean I like Naruto better than One Piece. One Piece is infinitely more enjoyable to me than Naruto, it's an objectively better manga. I enjoy even Bleach better than Naruto. However, as far as fights go, Naruto's more tactical approach to fights makes them much more enjoyable than One Piece's best fights, because even One Piece's best fights are mostly about one character overpowering another by using previsible methods.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

ZE said:


> C'mon now. Can't believe we're comparing OP's villains to those in naruto.
> I mean, look at this list: Blackbeard, Donflamingo, Akainu. It doesn't get better than this.
> 
> The best naruto has is Orochimaru, and Pain before Nagato was revealed. In Pain's case the whole hatred sub-story actually helped to establish a rivalry between Naruto and Pain. Too bad Kishi didn't expand on it.


Zabuza 

 As a first choice and the rest mains as second

Dofla is cool but that's it. Bb is good and akainu is nothing more than somee top tier who's now relevant to the story a bit.


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## x5exotic (Nov 25, 2012)

Zirconis said:


> I'm not reading through all the Bullshit, I'd like to know exotic, so you're saying that OP is the same as Naruto ex: same villains, protags, ect. yet you voted for naruto?



No im saying its MORE repetitive with recycled material
Whether in fights or in other stuff so i voted naru


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## Mihawk (Nov 27, 2012)

lol Naruto is shit. The manga is horrible.


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## Zeno (Nov 27, 2012)

Original Sin said:


> Explains it. Also, Cell>Cooler<=>Frieza.
> 
> Just saiyan.



Fixed       .


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## Alita (Nov 27, 2012)

Naruto D. Luffy said:


> Not Bleach..



This.

Also IMO,

Naruto>>OP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bleach


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## SAFFF (Nov 27, 2012)

Luke Kent said:


> And yet its the same shit, sword slashes.



Meh, better than Stall Piece Constantly running from gas and stalling fights does not a good manga make.


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## Golden Witch (Nov 27, 2012)

ZE said:


> C'mon now. Can't believe we're comparing OP's villains to those in naruto.
> I mean, look at this list: Blackbeard, Donflamingo, Akainu. It doesn't get better than this.
> 
> The best naruto has is Orochimaru, and Pain before Nagato was revealed. In Pain's case the whole hatred sub-story actually helped to establish a rivalry between Naruto and Pain. Too bad Kishi didn't expand on it.



I know he holds no candle to them but Caesar alone makes Naruto villains appear like disney villains.


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## Akatora (Nov 27, 2012)

At it's best I'd prefer bleach, on avg though I think Naruto for once could win it.
For the signature moves i guess Gomu since there's more variation.


If Bleach battles on avg had been like Ichigo vs Ganju or the captain tagteam against Aizen then it would leave the others in the dust, sadly it doesn't. (refering to how they froze Aizen, attacked him from the shadow, altered his directions only to finish with a stab(to bad it was Hinamori))


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## 8 (Nov 27, 2012)

i would say: 

naruto part 1 > one piece >>> naruto begin part 2 > bleach >>> current naruto


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## Zhen Chan (Nov 27, 2012)

8 said:


> i would say:
> 
> naruto part 1 > one piece >>> naruto begin part 2 > bleach >>> current naruto



I would agree with this


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## MegaultraHay (Nov 27, 2012)

It's funny because half of the posts are subjective


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## Black Mirror (Nov 27, 2012)

MegaultraHay said:


> It's funny because half of the posts are subjective



can you even be objective about it?


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## Razzzz (Nov 28, 2012)

A typical Bleach fight consist of ink splatters, white empty spaces characterized as energy beams, and generic sword slashes lacking in real choreographed dynamism and intensity that are always complemented by a tedious sequence of shocked or surprised faces. Any other action-oriented shounen series has better fighting scenes than that crap.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Nov 28, 2012)

8 said:


> i would say:
> 
> naruto part 1 > one piece >>> naruto begin part 2 > bleach >>> current naruto



This is the most accurate one.


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## Silver (Nov 28, 2012)

OP winning, all is right with the world  
*Spoiler*: __ 



 On a different note, I see some jimmies are still rustled


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## Impact (Nov 29, 2012)

I forgotten all about this thread 

Who won anyways?


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## Wuzzman (Nov 29, 2012)

naruto part 1 > one piece thriller park >= bleach ss arc

One piece beats bleach just because of the sheer number of great fights in one piece since luffy fought buggy the clown tlll zoro fought the zombie samuria.


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