# How do you view the Admirals vs Yonko



## Dead Precedence (May 25, 2021)

Redundant I know, but I'm curious what people generally think.


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 25, 2021)

Sakazuki~Yonko>Admiral.

Reactions: Agree 6 | Disagree 1


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## TheWiggian (May 25, 2021)

FA Sakazuki > Shanks = Admirals = BB > Kaido and Big Mom

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 5


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## Nikseng (May 25, 2021)

Simple :

Pirate King
Yonko/Fleet Admiral
Admiral

The manga gave us this hierarchy when WB/Roger (PKs) were put in a higher pedestal compared to other Yonkos and when Mother Caramel stated that Linlin (Yonko) had a potential probably higher than Navy Admiral : which was Fleet Admiral.

You effectively deduce PK > Yonkos/Fleet Admirals > Admirals.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 7 | Informative 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## ShadoLord (May 25, 2021)

Akainu > Shanks > Kaido > Aokiji/Kizaru/Big Mom

Blackbeard could be at the forefront or last depending on the story.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## oiety (May 25, 2021)

Sakazuki~Yonkou>Fujitora~Kizaru~Green Bull

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Van Basten (May 25, 2021)

Same general level but not all the same strength. I do think the weakest Yonkou (Big Mom) is stronger than the weakest Admiral (probably Issho.) Everyone is at least a firmly high diff battle for the other. 

I guess for a ranking: 

Shanks/BB/Akainu > Kaido > Aokiji > Big Mom >= Kizaru > Issho/Green Bull.

EOS BB >> any of these people though.

Reactions: Like 2 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 4


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## Blanco (May 25, 2021)

Goku>Vegeta

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | GODA 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 25, 2021)

About 60/40 for Yonko.


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## Grimsley (May 25, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Simple :
> 
> Pirate King
> Yonko/Fleet Admiral
> ...


This post sums up my feeling.

You will get the fanboys on here putting Shanks and Akainu over Kaido and Mom but this is the most objective way of looking at it. I’m not buying into any kind of EOS headcanon when most of these weirdos have Shanks shoved so far up their rectum they can’t see the wood for the trees.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Grinningfox (May 25, 2021)

I have Yonkou over Admirals but not to a ridiculous degree 

I just think that when you look at either BM or Kaido who have shown better Haki and physicals than the admirals  and have comparable DF hax  the obvious conclusion is that Yonkou are stronger . Now I have no problem if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like a bad position to have at the moment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Canute87 (May 26, 2021)

It depends on if the admirals have advanced COC.

If they do then they are on the same level as the yonkou.

If not then the yonkou are stronger.


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## LightningForce (May 26, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Simple :
> 
> Pirate King
> Yonko/Fleet Admiral
> ...



Basically this, but PK level can also mean having the strongest crew in the world compared to other pirates, as indicated by BM if she were to have Elbaf under her reign.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Simple :
> 
> Pirate King
> Yonko/Fleet Admiral
> ...


Aokiji was near dead even with Akainu and old Sengoku was probably weaker than the Admirals at Marineford.

Theyre probably about equal with the exception of Primebeard.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> I have Yonkou over Admirals but not to a ridiculous degree
> 
> I just think that when you look at either BM or Kaido who have shown better Haki and physicals than the admirals  and have comparable DF hax  the obvious conclusion is that Yonkou are stronger . Now I have no problem if I’m wrong but it doesn’t seem like a bad position to have at the moment.


Have they shown better Haki than the Admirals? We haven’t seen everything from them, but Sengoku does have Conquerors and Akainu probably does as well. They also showed advanced CoO and CoA at Marineford.


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## Eustathios (May 26, 2021)

They are on the same level. Every fight could go either way. No Yonko would win against an Admiral with less than extreme diff and vice versa.


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## trance (May 26, 2021)

seeing some of these responses, i think a good follow-up question would be how much stronger do you view the fleet admiral in his prime compared to the admirals?


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## Grinningfox (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Have they shown better Haki than the Admirals? We haven’t seen everything from them, but Sengoku does have Conquerors and Akainu probably does as well. They also showed advanced CoO and CoA at Marineford.


Adv. Conquerors

Who showed adv Coo?


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> Adv. Conquerors
> 
> Who showed adv Coo?


I said advanced CoO and CoA. We don’t know if they have conquerors yet, but that seems very likely at this point and they do seem to be more proficient with the other two types of Haki.


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

They're on the same level, when you get down to splitting hairs things get messy. But don't count out Oda contradicting his own powerscale.


Lee-Sensei said:


> I said advanced CoO and CoA. We don’t know if they have conquerors yet, *but that seems very likely at this point* and they do seem to be more proficient with the other two types of Haki.


Keep bullshitting.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## Grinningfox (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I said advanced CoO and CoA. We don’t know if they have conquerors yet, but that seems very likely at this point and they do seem to be more proficient with the other two types of Haki.


When I said Adv Conq that was in reference to what the Yonkou have shown and the admirals haven’t 

When did the admirals show Adv COO?


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## Blanco (May 26, 2021)

once admirals show that lightning opinions are gonna sway. but it has to be almost every exchange like luffy and the right sound effect or it doesnt count.


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> When I said Adv Conq that was in reference to what the Yonkou have shown and the admirals haven’t
> 
> When did the admirals show Adv COO?


Originally, you said that the Emperors have shown better Haki. That’s what I was responding to. They have shown better CoC, but chances are very high that they have Conquerors.


*EDIT*

The links aren’t working, but the chapters are there.


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> They're on the same level, when you get down to splitting hairs things get messy. But don't count out Oda contradicting his own powerscale.
> 
> Keep bullshitting.


Sengoku doesn’t have CoC?


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## Blanco (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Originally, you said that the Emperors have shown better Haki. That’s what I was responding to. They have shown better CoC, but chances are very high that they have Conquerors.
> 
> 
> *EDIT*
> ...


the "ugh. haki users irritating part." do you think akainu got hit but the haki was too weak to bypass his intangibility but he said ugh because he still got stung a bit? or was that full coo reshape?


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Sengoku doesn’t have CoC?


I just want you to know that everything you're saying about the Admirals haki is bullshit.


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## Duhul10 (May 26, 2021)

Yonko all the way. Not buying that sh*t with being an FA making you get to yonko level, because for all we know, the last FA was weaker than the C3 and the current FA needs extreme, extreme, extreme diff to beat an admiral.


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Yonko all the way. Not buying that sh*t with being an FA making you get to yonko level, because for all we know, the last FA was weaker than the C3 and the current FA needs extreme, extreme, extreme diff to beat an admiral.


I'm sure no one means that once you are asigned as Fleet Admiral you instantly get a boost of 10 power level points.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Grinningfox (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Originally, you said that the Emperors have shown better Haki. That’s what I was responding to. They have shown better CoC, but chances are very high that they have Conquerors.
> 
> 
> *EDIT*
> ...


But YOU said they showed adv COO and I asked you when 

I’m willing to bet they don’t have Conqueror Haki personally but it seems you would take those odds.

What would change for you and your ranking if they didn’t ?


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Blanco said:


> the "ugh. haki users irritating part." do you think akainu got hit but the haki was too weak to bypass his intangibility but he said ugh because he still got stung a bit? or was that full coo reshape?


No. I think Akain7 took the hit. I think Aokiji used CoO to morph around Whitebeards attack.



Shunsuiju said:


> I just want you to know that everything you're saying about the Admirals haki is bullshit.


Does Sengoku have CoC? Yes or no?


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## Grinningfox (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> I'm sure no one means that once you are asigned as Fleet Admiral you instantly get a boost of 10 power level points.


That would be hilarious


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## Blanco (May 26, 2021)

fleet admiral power is a big consideration for the role. but sengoku literally retired after the war he was wayyyy out of his prime. and garp who was probably stronger dont give a fk about the role anyway.


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> No. I think Akain7 took the hit. I think Aokiji used CoO to morph around Whitebeards attack.
> 
> 
> Does Sengoku have CoC? Yes or no?


Yes.

Does any Admiral have future sight? We don't know.

Does any Admiral besides Sengoku have conquerors and is it "very likely" they do? We don't know and No.


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> But YOU said they showed adv COO and I asked you when


I did.




Advanced CoA.




Grinningfox said:


> I’m willing to bet they don’t have Conqueror Haki personally but it seems you would take those odds.
> 
> What would change for you and your ranking if they didn’t ?


They’d probably be lower, but I’m pretty sure they have it. I remember people used to say that Marines can’t have CoC. Then we found out Sengoku has it. They used to say that Zoro doesn’t have CoC. Then it was confirmed that he had it. I was on the right side twice before. I don’t think I’m wrong here.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Yes.
> 
> Does any Admiral have future sight? We don't know.
> 
> Does any Admiral besides Sengoku have conquerors and is it "very likely" they do? We don't know and No.


Cool. So why do you think Fleet Admiral Sengoku has CoC, but not Fleet Admiral Akainu?


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Cool. So why do you think Fleet Admiral Sengoku has CoC, but not Fleet Admiral Akainu?


Why do you think the rank of Fleet Admiral necessitates conquerors haki?


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Why do you think the rank of Fleet Admiral necessitates conquerors haki?








You might as well ask me why I thought the Emperors and Roger had CoC before it was revealed. So why do you think that the commander of the strongest organization in One Piece doesn’t have CoC even though we know that his predecessor did? Has the Fleet Admiral not made a name for himself?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

So nothing more than speculation? My point exactly.

I'm done here.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Optimistic 3


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> So nothing more than speculation? My point exactly.
> 
> I'm done here.


That’s pretty pathetic. I never said that I wasn’t speculating. We both are. I was speculating when I said Sengoku and Zoro hade CoC too.

So why do you think Fleet Admiral Sengoku had CoC, but not Fleet Admirals Akainu? Are you going to answer that question or just keep dodging?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> That’s pretty pathetic. I never said that I wasn’t speculating. We both are. I was speculating when I said Sengoku and Zoro hade CoC too.
> 
> So why do you think Fleet Admiral Sengoku had CoC, but not Fleet Admirals Akainu? Are you going to answer that question or just keep dodging?


From what I saw, you were acting like the Admirals definitely had future sight and conquerors. If not stating for a fact they did, trying really hard to convince others they did to win an argument. If you weren't doing this, then fine, I'm sorry.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> From what I saw, you were acting like the Admirals definitely had future sight and conquerors. If not stating for a fact they did, trying really hard to convince others they did to win an argument. If you weren't doing this, then fine, I'm sorry.


I think Kizaru and Aokiji have future sight, because they were morphing around Whitebeards Haki attacks. It’s possible that they don’t have CoC. I just think that’s very unlikely. I said the same thing about the Emperors 10+ years ago. CoC is going to be a lot more common then some people think. Especially among the stronger characters in the series. It’s something that people are born with. It doesn’t make sense to me that they’d lose it if they decide to join the Navy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nikseng (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Aokiji was near dead even with Akainu and old Sengoku was probably weaker than the Admirals at Marineford.
> 
> Theyre probably about equal with the exception of Primebeard.


Yes but Sengoku was promoted during his prime, so we should take that version as a benchmark for FA, not his MF one that resigned just after the war.

Also Akainu has probably gotten stronger since then and Aokiji is probably in the upper echelon of Admiral level himself.


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## Klarionan (May 26, 2021)

Endgame Blackbeard > Kaido >= Big Mom > Shanks = Akainu >=  Aokiji > Kizaru > Green Bull/Fujitora

Reactions: Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 1


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## Turrin (May 26, 2021)

Kizaru to me is a wild card and potentially hiding something. So I tend to not rank him, but overall baring power ups it seems like 

Teach (EoS) >= Akainu (Eos) >= Shanks > Kaidou >= Aokiji >= Green Bull / Fujitora / BM

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Yes but Sengoku was promoted during his prime, so we should take that version as a benchmark for FA, not his MF one that resigned just after the war.
> 
> Also Akainu has probably gotten stronger since then and Aokiji is probably in the upper echelon of Admiral level himself.


Akainu is 55. I doubt that he’s making big jumps in power at this point. I have no reason to believe that Aokiji is significantly sytonger than the other Admirals. At least not Kizaru. They all got similar portrayal with Akainu being slightly stronger.


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## Nikseng (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Akainu is 55. I doubt that he’s making big jumps in power at this point. I have no reason to believe that Aokiji is significantly sytonger than the other Admirals. At least not Kizaru. They all got similar portrayal with Akainu being slightly stronger.


Akainu improved by having an all out battle with Aokiji where he surpassed his limits and likely got a haki bloom. Besides, him having a bigger plot relevance and leveling the Marines' threat single-handedly would drive the narration to make him stronger; whether it makes sense or
not.

Upper level Admiral doesn't mean " significantly stronger " than the others. Kuzan being candidate for FA and being pre-skip Akainu's near equal on top of having a bigger relevance story-wise would certainly make him closer to the top if you had to rank the admirals. Hence upper level Admiral.


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## Duhul10 (May 26, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> Akainu improved by having an all out battle with Aokiji where he surpassed his limits and likely got a haki bloom. Besides, him having a bigger plot relevance and leveling the Marines' threat single-handedly would drive the narration to make him stronger; whether it makes sense or
> not.
> 
> Upper level Admiral doesn't mean " significantly stronger " than the others. Kuzan being candidate for FA and being pre-skip Akainu's near equal on top of having a bigger relevance story-wise would certainly make him closer to the top if you had to rank the admirals. Hence upper level Admiral.


Haki definitely reaches a top at a certain age. Otherwise any old age fighter would rip anyone else around. Akainu getting any stronger is a BIG maybe.


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## Nikseng (May 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Haki definitely reaches a top at a certain age. Otherwise any old age fighter would rip anyone else around. Akainu getting any stronger is a BIG maybe.


That's pure specualtion but keep in mind that :
-Akainu wasn't that old.
-Chances are, he never had a fight of this intensity where he came out on top.

He certainly came out stronger of that encounter, just like the Marines as a whole and just like his rank is now higher. He's the only reason Marines are remotely threatening at this point.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Duhul10 (May 26, 2021)

Nikseng said:


> That's pure specualtion but keep in mind that :
> -Akainu wasn't that old
> -Chances are he never had a fight of this intensity where he came out on top.
> 
> He certainly came out stronger of that encounter, just like the Marines as a whole and just like his rank is now higher. He's the only reason Marines are remotely threatening at this point.


Well, maybe, we can't really know. 55 is quite old. I still consider him to only be maybe a cut above the other 2 of the C3 but that's about it.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Pirao (May 26, 2021)

EoS BB>Akainu >=Shanks>Kaido>Aokiji>=Big Mom>=Kizaru>Issho/Green Bull

The weakest in the list still gives the strongest at least high difficulty.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Red Admiral (May 26, 2021)

I mean ... Akainu is not an Admiral ... why people keep mentioning him as Admirals?


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## YonkoDrippy (May 26, 2021)

All Yonko are stronger than all Admirals. Yonko have been portrayed above Admirals multiple times in the series.

- WB beat Akainu despite being heavily nerfed and handicapped

- Shanks stopped MF war singlehandedly

- Marines we’re scared shitless at the thought of 2 Yonko teaming up

- Yonko have hype and titles of being the strongest such as “WSM” “WSC”

- Gorosei said only WB remnants and the other Yonko have a chance at beating Blackbeard

Yonko also have better feats than Admirals. Like 1 shotting G4 Luffy, 2 shotting Queen, tanking R5 attacks, The list goes on. The Yonko/Admiral powerscale goes like this: Primebeard > Old WB > MF WB/Kaido > Big Mom > Shanks > Current BB > Akainu > Aokiji/Kizaru > Fujitora/Greenbull

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 2 | Lewd 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Nikseng (May 26, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Well, maybe, we can't really know. 55 is quite old. I still consider him to only be maybe a cut above the other 2 of the C3 but that's about it.


Imo.

Pre-TS :
Akainu : 100
Aokiji : 99
Kizaru : 98

Post-TS :
FA/EOS Akainu : 104
Aokiji : 101
Kizaru : 98

I think both Sakazuki/Kuzan benefited from a marginal boost after such a high-intensity fight and they both transcended regular Admiral status by rank (FA/FA candidate) and plot relevance (Endgame material/Double agent).

What are you numbers ? Also what numbers would you give to Emperors ?


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## Mihawk (May 26, 2021)

Whitebeard>=Kaido~Akainu~Shanks>=Blackbeard~Big Mom~Aokiji~Kizaru>=Fujitora~Green Bull

Very negligible differences in between

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Ruse (May 26, 2021)

I used to view them as equal but Yonko have more going for them post time skip. I rank them like this: 

Kaido/Shanks >= Big Mom/Blackbeard >= Akainu > Aokiji >= Kizaru/Fujitora/Green Bull

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## LaniDani (May 26, 2021)

Shanks>Kaido>=Linlin>=Teach>Akainu>=Kuzan>Fuji,Kizaru,GB.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 2


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Have they shown better Haki than the Admirals? We haven’t seen everything from them, but Sengoku does have Conquerors and Akainu probably does as well. They also showed advanced CoO and CoA at Marineford.


Hey genuinely asking, what made you a Marine fan? Aren't the Marines lame ?


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Hey genuinely asking, what made you a Marine fan? Aren't the Marines lame ?


They’re the strongest group in the series. How are they lame?

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> They’re the strongest group in the series. How are they lame?


They are pretty much glorified guard dogs of the Gorosei/WG tbh and that's why I find them lame.

Though what makes you a fan of them? I am legit genuine about this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> They are pretty much glorified guard dogs of the Gorosei/WG tbh and that's why I find them lame.
> 
> Though what makes you a fan of them? I am legit genuine about this.


Most Marines aren‘t involved with the Gorosei. The Marines are generally the good guys and protect regular people. Most pirates aren’t like the Straw Hats. The last few minutes of this video explains it.


Aside from that, I think a lot of Marines are really nuanced and well developed (Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Aokiji, Fujitora, Smoker, Koby, Tashigi and evening Helmeppo).


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## Empathy (May 26, 2021)

Nobody thinks that all Yonkou are about equal in strength, so it’s weird that people think all Admirals are basically equal. Prime Garp was considered to be, “_admiral-level_,” at one point, too. The average Admiral-level is probably about as strong as Kizaru or Fujitora. Somebody like Akainu already proved that he’s above, “_admiral-level_,” when he defeated Aokiji (who I also consider to be an above average admiral).

I think to be a Yonkou, the threshold is that you have to be stronger than an average Admiral, such as Fujitora. Blackbeard was only considered to be Yonkou-level when he defeated Marco, somebody who most consider to be almost admiral-level. Despite being an admiral himself, Akainu already proved to be above an average admiral-level, so that means the door’s still open for him to be stronger than other Yonkou such as Big Mom or current Blackbeard, as he’s Yonkou-level in his own right. I think there’s a chance that Aokiji and MF Garp are also above-average, whereas guys like Kizaru, Fujitora, and Sengoku are all probably standard admiral-level.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## Captain Altintop (May 26, 2021)

Yonko have still the slight edge but overall there are no real differences. 

Option #1 seems to be most logical.

I try to rank them albeit the gaps being minuscle.


*1 - Shanks*
*2 - Akainu *
*3 - Kaido*
*4 - Current Teach*
*5 - Kizaru*
*6 - Big Mom*
*7 - Fuji/Ryo
8 - Ryo/Fuji*

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Nobody thinks that all Yonkou are about equal in strength, so it’s weird that people think all Admirals are basically equal. Prime Garp was considered to be, “_admiral-level_,” at one point, too.


Yeah. Garp was Admiral level. And?



Empathy said:


> The average Admiral-level is probably about as strong as Kizaru or Fujitora. Somebody like Akainu already proved that he’s above, “_admiral-level_,” when he defeated Aokiji (who I also consider to be an above average admiral).


It took him 10 days to beat Aokiji. Akainu was slightly stronger. He wasn’t on another level.



Empathy said:


> I think to be a Yonkou, the threshold is that you have to be stronger than an average Admiral, such as Fujitora. Blackbeard was only considered to be Yonkou-level when he defeated Marco, somebody who most consider to be almost admiral-level. Despite being an admiral himself, Akainu already proved to be above an average admiral-level, so that means the door’s still open for him to be stronger than other Yonkou such as Big Mom or current Blackbeard, as he’s Yonkou-level in his own right. I think there’s a chance that Aokiji and MF Garp are also above-average, whereas guys like Kizaru, Fujitora, and Sengoku are all probably standard admiral-level.


Sengoku has been grouped with Garp many times. Whitebeard did it. Roger did it. Kong did it. He has a mythical Zoan, he became the a Fleet Admiral and he’s the only Marine with confirmed CoC. He’s also supposed to be a master strategist. If Garp is stronger than Sengoku, it’s probably only slightly.


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## Empathy (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Yeah. Garp was Admiral level. And?



All marine admirals aren’t nigh equal. 



Lee-Sensei said:


> It took him 10 days to beat Aokiji. Akainu was slightly stronger. He wasn’t on another level.



Yonkou aren’t on another level than Aokiji either. 



Lee-Sensei said:


> Sengoku has been grouped with Garp many times. Whitebeard did it. Roger did it. Kong did it. He has a mythical Zoan, he became the a Fleet Admiral and he’s the only Marine with confirmed CoC. He’s also supposed to be a master strategist. If Garp is stronger than Sengoku, it’s probably only slightly.



Okay.


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## xmysticgohanx (May 26, 2021)

Kaidou > Shanks > Akainu > Big Mom > admirals 

extreme diffs

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lee-Sensei (May 26, 2021)

Empathy said:


> All marine admirals aren’t nigh equal.


I’m Saying that we don’t know how strong Garp was when he was Admiral level. For all we know he was around the level of the current Admirals or only slightly above. I don’t think Roger or Primebeard would stomp current Top Tiers. They’d probably win with high diff.


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## Bill1001 (May 26, 2021)

In my op I think 

Two Admiral vs Yonko = Yonko loss after killing an Admiral while almost killing the othere

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Empathy (May 26, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> I’m Saying that we don’t know how strong Garp was when he was Admiral level. For all we know he was around the level of the current Admirals or only slightly above. I don’t think Roger or Primebeard would stomp current Top Tiers. They’d probably win with high diff.



Alright.


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## nmwn93 (May 27, 2021)

ive always thought any admiral is stronger than any yonko . esp if its the first 3

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3 | Dislike 1


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## Kylo Ren (May 27, 2021)

Yonko > Admirals.


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## Perrin (May 27, 2021)

Blackbeard

Akainu
Shanks
Kaido/Big Mom

Fuji / Kizaru / GreenBull

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Ruthless Tsuchikage (May 27, 2021)

I assume that if not otherwise stated a Yonko is a tier above an admiral. 

Otherwise the worldbuilding wouldn't work and the Yonko's would all have been put in Impel Down years ago. 

The marines are already the military force of the world government and unlike the Yonko they are a unified force. If the Yonko are all disunited and as hostile to each other then the marines and if the three top positions in the marines are equal to a Yonko or even stronger....then why do the Yonko exist? Why hasn't Big mom been captured by Kizaru ages ago? Why haven't Fujitora and Ryogugyu teamed up to arrest Shanks? They could just have send the admirals to arrest the Yonko's one at a time while the other Yonko's sit back and watch.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## nmwn93 (May 27, 2021)

Kylo Ren said:


> Yonko > Admirals.


based off WHAT?


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## Kylo Ren (May 27, 2021)

nmwn93 said:


> based off WHAT?


World strongest title.

The previous and the currently rumored as one.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kinjin (May 27, 2021)

Admirals ~ Yonko. So simple.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Ezekjuninor (May 28, 2021)

If I was to say admirals = yonkou I'd have to ignore the feat comparisons between the 2. They both include top tiers which can give each other hard battles but the yonkou would come out on top. 

I put Kaidou at the top followed by BM, Shanks, and Sakazuki who are more or less on the same level, while the admirals could give everyone above high-very high diff.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 2


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## Red Admiral (May 28, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Nobody thinks that all Yonkou are about equal in strength, so it’s weird that people think all Admirals are basically equal. Prime Garp was considered to be, “_admiral-level_,” at one point, too. The average Admiral-level is probably about as strong as Kizaru or Fujitora. Somebody like Akainu already proved that he’s above, “_admiral-level_,” when he defeated Aokiji (who I also consider to be an above average admiral).
> 
> I think to be a Yonkou, the threshold is that you have to be stronger than an average Admiral, such as Fujitora. Blackbeard was only considered to be Yonkou-level when he defeated Marco, somebody who most consider to be almost admiral-level. Despite being an admiral himself, Akainu already proved to be above an average admiral-level, so that means the door’s still open for him to be stronger than other Yonkou such as Big Mom or current Blackbeard, as he’s Yonkou-level in his own right. I think there’s a chance that Aokiji and MF Garp are also above-average, whereas guys like Kizaru, Fujitora, and Sengoku are all probably standard admiral-level.



I think vast majority of fandom would consider Yonko to be a Level therefore close to each other

but THERE IS NO REASON to consider a gap among Logia Admirals

- they all are top Logia user
- with same CoA
- with same exp
- with same teacher
- they even fought neck and neck for 10 days 

there is no reason to assume one is above another by a considerable gap unless Akainu unlocked Ad.CoC


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## Perrin (May 28, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> I think vast majority of fandom would consider Yonko to be a Level therefore close to each other
> 
> but THERE IS NO REASON to consider a gap among Logia Admirals
> 
> ...


Agreed. Even their designs seem similar, same height, all lean, with gaudy colorful suits and marine cloak.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Empathy (May 28, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> I think vast majority of fandom would consider Yonko to be a Level therefore close to each other
> 
> but THERE IS NO REASON to consider a gap among Logia Admirals
> 
> ...



Akainu defeated Aokiji after ten days, it wasn’t a draw—he proved he was superior. There’s no reason to believe Kizaru could give Akainu just as, if not more difficulty than Aokiji did either. Aokiji was who Garp and Sengoku wanted to lead the marines once they retired; his battle with Akainu represented an ideological clash for the future of the marines.

Kizaru at the end of the day is just a strong, evil villain without much relevance to the main cast or plot, who just happens to be a troll. He was consistently pit up against other silver-medalists like Old Rayleigh, Marco, and Benn Beckman, and he never got the better of or proved to be a cut above any of them. There’s a reason why Beckman is who stopped Kizaru and Shanks is who stopped Akainu. Akainu is the one who primarily fought Whitebeard, not anybody else.

He has more relevancy to the main character as Ace’s killer as well. Akainu’s feats and portrayal are much better than Kizaru’s. People lump MF Garp, Sengoku, and Fujitora in with them as well. It’s weird that people think that all the strong marines are virtually all identical in strength. I don’t remember ever hearing that all Admirals have the same teacher either, so I don’t know what you’re talking about there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 28, 2021)

Oda called WB the strongest pirate at MF , so admirals>Yonkos

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 28, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Akainu defeated Aokiji after ten days, it wasn’t a draw—he proved he was superior.


So you gonna ignore jinbei saying they were equal?


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 28, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Kizaru at the end of the day is just a strong, evil villain without much relevance to the main cast or plot, who just happens to be a troll. He was consistently pit up against other silver-medalists like Old Rayleigh, Marco, and Benn Beckman,


stop reading two piece, rayleigh was on the defensive everytime against kizaru, benn beckman told kizaru to not shoot and kizaru still shot while shanks equal stood there and did nothing despite the DB saying hes a elite sniper, marco? well you read marineford right? Oda called MF the strongest pirate therefore it doesn't matter Admirals>Yonkos who are comparable with their commanders

Reactions: Like 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Red Admiral (May 28, 2021)

Empathy said:


> Akainu defeated Aokiji after ten days, it wasn’t a draw—he proved he was superior. There’s no reason to believe Kizaru could give Akainu just as, if not more difficulty than Aokiji did either. Aokiji was who Garp and Sengoku wanted to lead the marines once they retired; his battle with Akainu represented an ideological clash for the future of the marines.
> Kizaru at the end of the day is just a strong, evil villain without much relevance to the main cast or plot, who just happens to be a troll. He was consistently pit up against other silver-medalists like Old Rayleigh, Marco, and Benn Beckman, and he never got the better of or proved to be a cut above any of them. There’s a reason why Beckman is who stopped Kizaru and Shanks is who stopped Akainu. Akainu is the one who primarily fought Whitebeard, not anybody else.
> He has more relevancy to the main character as Ace’s killer as well. Akainu’s feats and portrayal are much better than Kizaru’s. People lump MF Garp, Sengoku, and Fujitora in with them as well. It’s weird that people think that all the strong marines are virtually all identical in strength. I don’t remember ever hearing that all Admirals have the same teacher either, so I don’t know what you’re talking about there.


it wasn't a draw but it was an extreme extreme close fight


*
they were a perfect match for each other in terms of strength *​

even look at after match 




EVERYTHING about Akainu Vs Kuzan imply equality ... 

Akainu was stronger but they were in exact same level​

Reactions: Like 3


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## Perrin (May 28, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> it wasn't a draw but it was an extreme extreme close fight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its a big setup so aokiji may eventually lead the marines and in know way do they look weaker for it.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 28, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> I think vast majority of fandom would consider Yonko to be a Level therefore close to each other
> 
> but THERE IS NO REASON to consider a gap among Logia Admirals
> 
> ...


Right, because Kizaru is going to be Luffy's greatest Marine rival.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


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## Perrin (May 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Right, because Kizaru is going to be Luffy's greatest Marine rival.
> 
> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Do not deprive Usopp of his prey.

Liar vs Troll
Both long range attackers
Oda foreshadowing the need for decent CoO to combat Kizaru

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 28, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Do not deprive Usopp of his prey.
> 
> Liar vs Troll
> Both long range attackers
> Oda foreshadowing the need for decent CoO to combat Kizaru


Usopp = Luffy ?


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## Perrin (May 28, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Usopp = Luffy ?


Nah, no DF for my boy


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## Red Admiral (May 29, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Right, because Kizaru is going to be Luffy's greatest Marine rival.
> 
> Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.



the argument that Akainu gonna be_ Luffy's rival_ is debatable on it's nature

since Luffy have 1 Boss fight per arc and Imu is the main Boss without a doubt


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## Mihawk (May 29, 2021)

^Akainu isn’t a rival. He’s a nemesis/arch-enemy.

Coby, Kidd, Law, Smoker, those are rivals to varying degrees.

Luffy and Akainu aren’t competing with each other. They hate each other and In Akainu’s case, he just wants to exterminate him.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Oda called WB the strongest pirate at MF , so admirals>Yonkos


*D:* *Pleased to meet you, Oda-chi! Heso!! I'll try to make this quick, but... I noticed a certain one of Oda-chi's policies? Or is it poliswees?!! Oda-chi... you don't seem to write lines in your own handwriting on the side as supplements to character's speech bubbles!? Other manga-ka do it a lot, but... please explain this for me!! Penname- Myaari*

O: Ohh. Yes. Lines written in speech bubbles vs. lines written outside them- good job noticing. I did the latter back when I was a newbie and even during the early days of serialization. But I made the conscious decision to stop doing that relatively early on, so you could call it a policy. Of course I don't mind it if other authors do it, but I thought that if I did that, *the reader might see my handwritten characters while reading and suddenly become aware that there is an "author", so I stopped. While reading my manga, I want you to forget about my existence.*

Oda wants you to forget his existence, so those statements are pure hype and carries no meaning. Word of God doesn't exist in One Piece.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Pirao (May 29, 2021)

Bill1001 said:


> In my op I think
> 
> *Two Admiral vs Yonko = Yonko loss after killing an Admiral while almost killing the othere*


Lol.

Too bad Whitebeard didn't get the memo or they might have saved Ace.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> *D:* *Pleased to meet you, Oda-chi! Heso!! I'll try to make this quick, but... I noticed a certain one of Oda-chi's policies? Or is it poliswees?!! Oda-chi... you don't seem to write lines in your own handwriting on the side as supplements to character's speech bubbles!? Other manga-ka do it a lot, but... please explain this for me!! Penname- Myaari*
> 
> O: Ohh. Yes. Lines written in speech bubbles vs. lines written outside them- good job noticing. I did the latter back when I was a newbie and even during the early days of serialization. But I made the conscious decision to stop doing that relatively early on, so you could call it a policy. Of course I don't mind it if other authors do it, but I thought that if I did that, *the reader might see my handwritten characters while reading and suddenly become aware that there is an "author", so I stopped. While reading my manga, I want you to forget about my existence.*
> 
> Oda wants you to forget his existence, so those statements are pure hype and carries no meaning. Word of God doesn't exist in One Piece.


so Mihawk isn't world strongest swordsmen? kaido 1v1 hype doesn't come from Oda? Also lol, (Big mom, sengoku, buggy, Kong,crocodile) All put WB on the higher pedestal then the yonkos

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (May 29, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> ^Akainu isn’t a rival. He’s a nemesis/arch-enemy.
> 
> Coby, Kidd, Law, Smoker, those are rivals to varying degrees.
> 
> Luffy and Akainu aren’t competing with each other. They hate each other and In Akainu’s case, he just wants to exterminate him.


Of course he's a rival in power. Just like Garp was the closest thing to rival to Roger's power in the Marines. 

What you're saying makes no sense.


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## Shunsuiju (May 29, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> *the reader might see my handwritten characters while reading and suddenly become aware that there is an "author", so I stopped. While reading my manga, I want you to forget about my existence.*
> 
> Oda wants you to forget his existence, so those statements are pure hype and carries no meaning. Word of God doesn't exist in One Piece.


Holy. That's dumb. That's really dumb.

Reactions: Like 2


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## El Hit (May 29, 2021)

lool keep fighting about this while Mihawk, the one above all,  watches them from the top as not worthy of a Duel.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Red Admiral (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> so Mihawk isn't world strongest swordsmen? kaido 1v1 hype doesn't come from Oda? Also lol, (Big mom, sengoku, buggy, Kong,crocodile) All put WB on the higher pedestal then the yonkos



that is a very DUMB way of seeing that ... he just proved to you "oda" never said anything .... this are "in-world" data ...

they might be true or false but they are not Oda's words 

you took one more L Green ... give up on this failed argument ... or don't ... it's your life ...


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> that is a very DUMB way of seeing that ... he just proved to you "oda" never said anything .... this are "in-world" data ...





Red Admiral said:


> they might be true or false but they are not Oda's words


Thanks but we got direct confirmation from Top tiers and the opverse that WB stood ontop of all, this is like saying oda didn't call fujitora a swordsmen


Red Admiral said:


> you took one more L Green ... give up on this failed argument ... or don't ... it's your life ...


What L? this is why I don't waste time with you anymore

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Red Admiral (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Thanks but we got direct confirmation from Top tiers and the opverse that WB stood ontop of all, this is like saying oda didn't call fujitora a swordsmen


no character in one piece world knowing about WB condition called him Strongest
in fact they called him a *"weakling" *

but WB himself admit he is no longer strongest 


GreenEggsAHam said:


> What L? this is why I don't waste time with you anymore



sure ... I wouldn't like being slapped with reality as well ... oh no ... I wouldn't mind ... but I guess that's cause I'm better than "this"


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Red Admiral said:


> in fact they called him a *"weakling" *


and then a top tier sengoku calls him the strongest man    hes a weakling of his former self


Red Admiral said:


> no character in one piece world knowing about WB condition called him Strongest


Already debunked this, check chapter 550 please
everyone knew he was old


Red Admiral said:


> but WB himself admit he is no longer strongest


Correct, I never said WB was the strongest man, but Oda did call him the strongest pirate in MF Volume, admirals>shanks


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> and then a top tier sengoku calls him the strongest man    hes a weakling of his former self
> 
> Already debunked this, check chapter 550 please
> everyone knew he was old
> ...




Case closed but keep using copium so you can continue living in denial.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> Case closed but keep using copium so you can continue living in denial.


Already debunked this mess, is kaido greater at piracy then every other pirate currently?


Oda called Kaido and WB the same thing, 世界最強の海賊
but try harder.

also kaido is physically stronger then WB, what a feat? Ace novel called newgate the strongest man 
and guess who's a man?


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Already debunked this mess, is kaido greater at piracy then every other pirate currently?
> 
> 
> Oda called Kaido and WB the same thing, 世界最強の海賊
> but try harder.


*Revealed In The Ace Novel It was Stated That Kaido Does In Fact Possess Greater Physical Strength Than Newgate.*

Case closed.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> *Revealed In The Ace Novel It was Stated That Kaido Does In Fact Possess Greater Physical Strength Than Newgate.*


Revealed in blue deep, that WB was in fact stronger then the yonkos, case closed physically stronger=/=Overall strength

Oda>>Ace novel

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Revealed in blue deep, that WB was in fact stronger then the yonkos, case closed physically stronger=/=Overall strength
> 
> Oda>>Ace novel


He was prepared for *death* at this point . He had ripped off all of the *medical tools* that were helping him stablize his condition despite his illness.

WB in Marineford could not use Haki and was wounded by Squard and Fodders.

*Revealed In The Ace Novel It was Stated That Kaido Does In Fact Possess Greater Physical Strength Than Newgate.*


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> He was prepared for *death* at this point . He had ripped off all of the *medical tools* that were helping him stablize his condition despite his illness.


yes what? this sbs is explaining WB was indeed prepared for death at MarineFord


Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> WB in Marineford could not use Haki and was wounded by Squard and Fodders.


Debunked all your trash points and this is all you got? kaido got stabbed by o-kiku. Squard>O-kiku
Wb Tagged Kizaru the fastest man in verse
Rayleigh vivre boast its CoA is strong enough to fight kizaru, whilst WB immoblizes akainu
CoC wasn't fleshed out yet, but you realize you can't lose ACoC? lol



Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> *Revealed In The Ace Novel It was Stated That Kaido Does In Fact Possess Greater Physical Strength Than Newgate.*


Revealed in ace novel, that shanks is the weakest yonko

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> yes what? this sbs is explaining WB was indeed prepared for death at MarineFord
> 
> Debunked all your trash points and this is all you got? kaido got stabbed by o-kiku. Squard>O-kiku
> Wb Tagged Kizaru the fastest man in verse
> ...


You really are so ridiculous, WB with medical tools use CoC to split the heavens but in marineford couldn't use CoC because he was without medical tools. 
And the other points are irrelevant, imagine comparing Squard who attacked alone and crossed WB's body with Kiku who attacked with the help of 8 others and just stabbed his hand,The swords of the other 8 did not pierce him in his body.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 29, 2021)

Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> You really are so ridiculous, WB with medical tools use CoC to split the heavens but in marineford couldn't use CoC because he was without medical tools.


Wym? CoC has to do with will he can still do it, and splitting the heavens is a 2 person thing not a 1 person, but you wouldn't understand.  Has nothing to do with ACoC btw 


Gensui Ryusei Kazan said:


> And the other points are irrelevant, imagine comparing Squard who attacked alone and crossed WB's body with Kiku who attacked with the help of 8 others and just stabbed his hand,The swords of the other 8 did not pierce him in his body.


The other points are irrevelant? but you're comparing WB getting stabbed by a trusted ally to kaido getting stabbed in the hand by a sworn enemy, case closed author called him the strongest not going to waste time with you clearly your headcanon reigns supreme


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (May 29, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Wym? CoC has to do with will he can still do it, and splitting the heavens is a 2 person thing not a 1 person, but you wouldn't understand.  Has nothing to do with ACoC btw
> 
> The other points are irrevelant? but you're comparing WB getting stabbed by a trusted ally to kaido getting stabbed in the hand by a sworn enemy, case closed author called him the strongest not going to waste time with you clearly your headcanon reigns supreme



Show me when WB did this to avoid getting hurt by fodders?



GreenEggsAHam said:


> WB getting stabbed by a trusted ally



Your denial schedule is ridiculous.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> so Mihawk isn't world strongest swordsmen? kaido 1v1 hype doesn't come from Oda? Also lol, (Big mom, sengoku, buggy, Kong,crocodile) All put WB on the higher pedestal then the yonkos


Those are all* in-verse statements made by in-verse characters* that are* within the One Piece verse* itself, they are "actual events" taking place within the series and *nothing to do with Word of God*. They do not contradict Oda's quote during his interview.

The scans you showed, however, doesn't take place within the main story itself aka the manga panels, and hence are hype tools made by the* people outside of the story, *where Oda doesn't want you to think it exists, which means it is purely a hype tool.

On the other hand, we have in verse statements from in verse characters that says that Kaido is strongest 1v1 while Whitebeard is strongest in piracy from Chapter 3 of Ace's novel that is canon because it was supervised by Oda himself:




So nothing contradicts the fact that Kaido has always been the strongest in 1v1 ever since WB became Old and Roger passed away.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 30, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Holy. That's dumb. That's really dumb.


Did you just..call Oda dumb? 0.0


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Those are all* in-verse statements made by in-verse characters* that are* within the One Piece verse* itself, they are "actual events" taking place within the series and *nothing to do with Word of God*. They do not contradict Oda's quote during his interview.
> 
> The scans you showed, however, doesn't take place within the main story itself aka the manga panels, and hence are hype tools made by the* people outside of the story, *where Oda doesn't want you to think it exists, which means it is purely a hype tool.
> 
> ...


Ace novel is about as canon as the databooks are. Both weren't written by Oda and are supplementary. The databooks state that WB was the strongest.

We have in verse statements from people in the manga (Buggy) saying WB is the strongest pirate and the ruler of the seas (Garp). Manga > secondary source. Simple as that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 30, 2021)

Lee-Sensei said:


> Most Marines aren‘t involved with the Gorosei. The Marines are generally the good guys and protect regular people. Most pirates aren’t like the Straw Hats. The last few minutes of this video explains it.
> 
> 
> Aside from that, I think a lot of Marines are really nuanced and well developed (Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Aokiji, Fujitora, Smoker, Koby, Tashigi and evening Helmeppo).


The highest ranking Marines are directly under the command of the Gorosei though, Akainu is literaly forced to bey whatever the Gorosei asks, if that isn't a guard dog Idk what is. I agree that most marines are doing their job out pf a sense of justice, but if the higher ups are being the Gorosei's guard dog, they can't escape such a fate even if they want to unless they quit the Marines.

Yeah most pirates are evil, but tbh at least the Pirates obey no one, and they would play the major role in overturning the corrupt WG. and it is probably because I value freedom a lot, and the pirates in my eyes are the truly free ones unlike the Marines.

I agree those Marines are well-developed as characters though, they make the story much more interesting.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Ace novel is about as canon as the databooks are. Both weren't written by Oda and are supplementary. The databooks state that WB was the strongest.
> 
> We have in verse statements from people in the manga (Buggy) saying WB is the strongest pirate and the ruler of the seas (Garp). Manga > secondary source. Simple as that.


We can both cancel out the databooks and Ace novel then in that case.

In the same manga, WB himself says that he is no longer the strongest, and it is backed up by his illness, lack-luster CoC, CoA and exclamations by his own right hand man. Meanwhile Buggy's claims hold far less water because :
1) He isn't WB himself
2) He understands WB nothing like Marco who was basically family to WB
3) Old WB has far more on panel anti-feats that suggest that he is no longer the World strongest Man than the opposite.


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> We can both cancel out the databooks and Ace novel then in that case.
> 
> In the same manga, WB himself says that he is no longer the strongest,


Source please?


Ebitan said:


> 1) He isn't WB himself


Okay.


Ebitan said:


> 2) He understands WB nothing like Marco who was basically family to WB


Marco never said he wasn't the strongest. 


Ebitan said:


> 3) Old WB has far more on panel feats that suggest that he is no longer the World strongest Man than the opposite.


I disagree.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ushiromiya Battler (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Source please?
> 
> Okay.
> 
> ...


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

Where is the part where says he isn't the strongest?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Those are all* in-verse statements made by in-verse characters* that are* within the One Piece verse* itself, they are "actual events" taking place within the series and *nothing to do with Word of God*. They do not contradict Oda's quote during his interview.


Already debunked this, your statement was oda talking bout speech bubble and lines, the source I posted was outside the manga called a volume cover made and written  by Oda


Ebitan said:


> The scans you showed, however, doesn't take place within the main story itself aka the manga panels, and hence are hype tools made by the* people outside of the story, *where Oda doesn't want you to think it exists, which means it is purely a hype tool.


Post above


Ebitan said:


> On the other hand, we have in verse statements from in verse characters that says that Kaido is strongest 1v1 while Whitebeard is strongest in piracy from Chapter 3 of Ace's novel that is canon because it was supervised by Oda himself:


This isn't even from Oda but nice try, already debunked this oda in the manga referred to kaido and WB as the same thing 世界最強の海賊
World's strongest pirate

Reactions: Like 2


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

In terms of piracy, yes, as the novel confirms.
Also Buggy didn't know shit about Deadbeard's disastrous condition

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Mihawk (May 30, 2021)

Seeing @GreenEggsAHam and @Gensui Ryusei Kazan debate each other is like watching a parallel universe split itself into two while fighting for supremacy and the right to become reality.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## Perrin (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Seeing @GreenEggsAHam and @Gensui Ryusei Kazan debate each other is like watching a parallel universe split itself into two while fighting for supremacy and the right to become reality.


Endgame was great

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## TheWiggian (May 30, 2021)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


>


Irrelevant 
Oda himself said the author is not to be seen in his works, so all titles are in verse knowledge alone, making all titles equally confirmed as what people know of certain characters.
On the other hand, Kaido is confirmed by Oda to be above Akainu and the novel elaborates on the difference between Kaido and wb.

Nice try


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## TheWiggian (May 30, 2021)



Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## TheKnightOfTheSea (May 30, 2021)

Sakazuki=Teach=Mihawk >= Other Yonko >= Other Admirals

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> In terms of piracy, yes, as the novel confirms.
> *Also Buggy didn't know shit about Deadbeard's disastrous condition*


Everyone knew WB was old and you can clearly see buggy imagine oldbeard not primebeard

Everyone knew WB was old

Reactions: Like 5


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Everyone knew WB was old and you can clearly see buggy imagine oldbeard not primebeard
> 
> Everyone knew WB was old


As if old age was the only factor. Did you skip MF? Wb was a complete wreck.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Did you skip MF? Wb was a complete wreck.


He still outclassed everyone there though..I mean what more were we expecting?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Neutral 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> As if old age was the only factor. Did you skip MF? Wb was a complete wreck.


What are you talking bout? he held his own against admirals, and one of them is the same admiral that wanted to solo kaido and big mom

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> He still outclassed everyone there though..I mean what more were we expecting?


He outclassed an admiral, but he did suffer great injuries in the process, in spite of two shotting him. That was the only top tier he outclassed there.
How is that related to Kaido or other yonko in any way?


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> What are you talking bout? he held his own against admirals, and one of them is the same admiral that *wanted to solo kaido and big mom*



* drops mic without feeling the need to even say anything else


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

He had the strongest kingdom, yet he became the weakest king


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He had the strongest kingdom, yet he became the weakest king


 How was he the weakest, when Kaido equal put a gap between the yonkos and Whitebeard?


Even Shanks seen old sickbeard and said he stood at the top

Reactions: Like 2


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> How was he the weakest, when Kaido equal put a gap between the yonkos and Whitebeard?
> 
> 
> Even Shanks seen old sickbeard and said he stood at the top


When you fight against WB, you don't only fight against him, you also fight his men, which have the best feats of all.

Shanks only clashed with WB once, that was no fight.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> When you fight against WB, you don't only fight against him, you also fight his men, which have the best feats of all.


Ridiculous headcanon, shes talking about each of the yonkos individually and she puts newgate at the top even above the current WSP


Duhul10 said:


> Shanks only clashed with WB once, that was no fight.


Has nothing to do what I said... Shanks said he was at the top, he has his own position.

Reactions: Like 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Ridiculous headcanon, shes talking about each of the yonkos individually and she puts newgate at the top even above the current WSP
> 
> Has nothing to do what I said... Shanks said he was at the top, he has his own position.


No headcannon, the WB pirates would be there for Wb, as all crews are when needed

Of course he was at the top, he had knowledge on Raftel, OP, he was the greatest in terms of piracy.


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Of course he was at the top, he had knowledge on Raftel, OP, he was the greatest in terms of piracy.


He didn't. 



_"...I'M NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT..."_

Reactions: Agree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Of course he was at the top, he had knowledge on Raftel, OP, he was the greatest in terms of piracy.


Why isn't big mom the WSP then? shes greater then kaido at piracy then kaido
also 世界最強 means  world's strongest not greater at piracy lol

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> He didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> _"...I'M NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN THAT..."_


That does not prove he did not tell him. He just stated that he was not interested, *which he was not *hence him being the closest to OP. You're the closest to op when you have the most knowledge.

if he didn't the guy was still at the top due to his vast empire, very strong subordinates and through his strength, which was an unknown for Shanks at that point


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Why isn't big mom the WSP then? shes greater then kaido at piracy then kaido
> also 世界最強 means  world's strongest not greater at piracy lol


She wasn't compared to WB.
Also, why is she better than Kaido? Kaido rules one of the mightiest countries in the world.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> She wasn't compared to WB.
> Also, why is she better than Kaido? Kaido rules one of the mightiest countries in the world.


Big mom has the "great pirate" title box in her introduction, only 2 confirmed people have that in the manga currently which is Roger,Newgate
so she is far superior to kaido in piracy yet doesn't have it

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He outclassed an admiral, but he did suffer great injuries in the process, in spite of two shotting him. *That was the only top tier he outclassed there.*
> How is that related to Kaido or other yonko in any way?



The bolded is being said like it isn't supposed to be impressive  Whitebeard took out the strongest top tier in the Navy, and quite possibly the strongest fighter on the other side. In reality, no other Yonko has accomplished such a feat. Not Big Mom, not Shanks, not Kaido.

As for suffering injuries in the process, he fought the Admirals evenly and was in far worst shape than they were, every single time. By the time he took Akainu out, he had already lost half his face and took on an ungodly amount of punishment. Let's be honest; Whitebeard would've been a different animal in a 1v1, under different circumstances and with more health.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mihawk (May 30, 2021)

Damn I just realised @Duhul10 is taking on like 5 posters at the same time   what a beast, truly a Yonko level feat

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Friendly 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Damn I just realised @Duhul10 is taking on like 5 posters at the same time   what a beast, truly a Yonko level feat


Duh 1 yonko=4 admirals

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Damn I just realised @Duhul10 is taking on like 5 posters at the same time   what a beast, truly a Yonko level feat


Doing my best to have some fun 
My exams period is getting closer, so I'll give you guys the opportunity to catch a breath for the next month

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> That does not prove he did not tell him. He just stated that he was not interested, *which he was not *hence him being the closest to OP. You're the closest to op when you have the most knowledge.


But we literally see them changing topic? WB never wanted One Piece. How can you be the closest man to it because you have knowledge when you have 0 interest in something? He didn't even have the knowledge to begin with. He only knows about the lost history most likely, but not how to get to Raftel. 


Duhul10 said:


> if he didn't the guy was still at the top due to his vast empire, very strong subordinates and through his strength, which was an unknown for Shanks at that point


So he was the weakest Yonko, but he's the strongest because of his crew? Too bad this is never mentioned anywhere in the manga. The WBP are mentioned as the strongest in another chapter (when we Neko meets Marco) and WB is singled out when mentioned by the other Yonko or Buggy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

WB was the strongest at some point, hence the title, his title did not change due to the world not knowing what his condition was. Not even his crew knew.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> WB was the strongest at some point, hence the title, his title did not change due to the world not knowing what his condition was. Not even his crew knew.


everyone knew his condition, sengoku seen it and still called him the WSM and one denied that Oda still called him the WSP
the war was broadcasted throughout the whole world, and post-ts everyone still thinks he's the strongest

To put it like this, kaido in 10 hits can't put down luffy, but WB in 2 hits put down akainu whos >Luffy and would low-diff kaido

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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## TheWiggian (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Damn I just realised @Duhul10 is taking on like 5 posters at the same time   what a beast, truly a Yonko level feat



More like responding for the sake of responding. I have yet to see a single argument

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> More like responding for the sake of responding. I have yet to see a single argument


I don't even need to argue with you. You are irrelevant


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

My man posting facts.

It's almost as if Oda is trying to convey something. I wonder what that is.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## TheWiggian (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> My man posting facts.
> 
> It's almost as if Oda is trying to convey something. I wonder what that is.





You just got to read what Oda writes in the manga. It's really that simple.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Eustathios (May 30, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> You just got to read what Oda writes in the manga. It's really that simple.


"B-...but Squardo blitzed him"

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2 | Friendly 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> "B-...but Squardo blitzed him"


And then he blitzes the fastest man in the verse til the point kizaru has a surprise mark from it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> And then he blitzes the fastest man in the verse til the point kizaru has a surprise mark from it


He blitzed him so hard he didn't touch him

Reactions: Funny 2


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> He blitzed him so hard he didn't touch him


Or kizaru observation haki is that good, but you don't try every reason to downplay WB so you don't acknowledge it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Pirao (May 30, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> "B-...but Squardo blitzed him"


Squardo is YC1 level and stronger than Zoro bruh

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Pirao said:


> Squardo is YC1 level and stronger than Zoro bruh


Squardo is yc1, how else did he survive a prime bloodlusted roger?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Mihawk (May 30, 2021)

Pirao said:


> Squardo is YC1 level and stronger than Zoro bruh



 

True, with Squardo's feats he's probably > Marco, since the latter has never hurt an Admiral or Yonko. 

Squardo's offence= top tier.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> True, with Squardo's feats he's probably > Marco, since the latter has never hurt an Admiral or Yonko.


squard Blitz the WSM and hurt him, no yonko/admiral has done that up to that point

Reactions: Like 3


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Or kizaru observation haki is that good, but you don't try every reason to downplay WB so you don't acknowledge it


So good that he didn't see Rayleigh coming from god knows where


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> So good that he didn't see Rayleigh coming from god knows where


It's better then kaido observation who didn't even see O-kiku coming

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> It's better then kaido observation who didn't even see O-kiku coming


Or he did not care dodging  as we know he did not.


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Or he did not care dodging  as we know he did not.


same can be applied to kizaru


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> same can be applied to kizaru


Any proof? Beckman begs to differ


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## GreenEggsAHam (May 30, 2021)

Duhul10 said:


> Any proof? Beckman begs to differ


Beckman? the guy who is stated to be a elite sniper and couldn't move after feeling kizaru CoC?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Duhul10 (May 30, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Beckman? the guy who is stated to be a elite sniper and couldn't move after feeling kizaru CoC?


So Kizaru stopped when Beckman told him to and only acted later.
Is Kizaru a tank? Do you have proof of that? Why would he not care of Rayleigh's intervention?


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## Peppoko (May 30, 2021)

Current Teach >= Old Whitebeard > Kaidou >= Shanks >= Big Mom > Akainu >= Aokiji >= Kizaru > Fujitora >= Green Bull

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 3


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## Galyus (May 31, 2021)

If the pirate masters weren't too strong for the WG's forces to kill then they'd be all dead besides Shanks (if he really is aiding the WG). Easy as that.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Canute87 (May 31, 2021)

Yet Kaido felt the need to form an alliance with Big Mom after the Marines kicked the Shichibukai out of the mile high club.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Simon Magus (May 31, 2021)

They’re stronger than any individual Emperor crew by a long shot, my guy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Soca (May 31, 2021)

Changed thread title. 

Chucking into battledome.

Stop bringing this in here ffs.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Dunno (Jun 1, 2021)

If the Grandmaster wasn't too strong for the combined might of all four Yonkou to kill, he'd be dead. Easy as that.


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## AllAboveOne (Jun 1, 2021)

Akainu>your fav Yonko

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Red Admiral (Jun 1, 2021)

Marine can defeat any single Yonko in a war ... that's a big hype ... be happy about it and don't wish for more


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## ShadoLord (Jun 1, 2021)

Kaido became a lab rat at one point in time.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 2, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> Already debunked this, your statement was oda talking bout speech bubble and lines, the source I posted was outside the manga called a volume cover made and written  by Oda
> 
> Post above
> 
> ...


Doesn't matter, Oda literally wants you to pretend he doesn't exist, and those volume cover aren't part of the content, so they have no bearings to in-verse happenings and are pure hype.

World's strongest in terms of Piracy more like, but Kaido still is the best in 1v1. And it was supervised by Oda and is recognized by the One Piece Wiki as canon.

Now if we look past the WoG from Volume Covers that Oda himself doesn't want the readers to think it exists and hence irrelevant to actual showings in the manga, WB's pathetic condition proved that he was the weakest Yonko that still beat the strongest Admiral.


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## Ushiromiya Battler (Jun 2, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Kaido became a lab rat at one point in time.


So? Also he was never a lab rat.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jun 2, 2021)

Ebitan said:


> Doesn't matter, Oda literally wants you to pretend he doesn't exist, and those volume cover aren't part of the content, so they have no bearings to in-verse happenings and are pure hype.


Headcannon Speech lines vs bubble texts have nothing to do with volume covers


Ebitan said:


> Now if we look past the WoG from Volume Covers that Oda himself doesn't want the readers to think it exists and hence irrelevant to actual showings in the manga, WB's pathetic condition proved that he was the weakest Yonko that still beat the strongest Admiral.


once again headcannon, oda said he was the strongest pirate outside of the manga so deal with it.


Ebitan said:


> World's strongest in terms of Piracy more like, but Kaido still is the best in 1v1. And it was supervised by Oda and is recognized by the One Piece Wiki as canon.


headcannon but not going to argue, since there are databooks that say WB was the strongest and was also supervised by Oda


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## Sherlōck (Jun 5, 2021)

Some posters here are like, "if US can truly beat UK, Germany, France, Italy, Canada at the same time then why the hell those countries still exists?" 

Checkmate Muricans.

*Assuming these countries are against US of course*

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Quipchaque (Jun 5, 2021)

Grimsley said:


> This post sums up my feeling.
> 
> You will get the fanboys on here putting Shanks and Akainu over Kaido and Mom but this is the most objective way of looking at it. I’m not buying into any kind of EOS headcanon when most of these weirdos have Shanks shoved so far up their rectum they can’t see the wood for the trees.



#Rentfree lmaaao

Reactions: Funny 2


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## trance (Jun 5, 2021)

Sherlōck said:


> *Assuming these countries are against US of course*



every country is against murica

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## LightningForce (Jun 6, 2021)

Cats think WB really stood at the top just because he was the WSM? Cmon now we know better.




Individual strength is important, but not when you're at the level of an Emperor. An Emperor's true standing lie in their *crew*. Without their crew, they aren't Emperors.

Pirate King level lies not only in individual strength but also ability to garner a crew capable of crushing all other Pirate crews or at least beat them. The crew is more important than the captain. Has nothing to do with the captain being the strongest combatant or being able to defeat anyone. Roger and WB were dead equal, and he never outright defeated BM either.

Oh yeah, also note long ago. So an even *healthier* WB at the time, one who could counter Ace fodder and more.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## TheWiggian (Jun 6, 2021)

WB >= Admirals >= Yonkos on average

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 1 | Dislike 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 6, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> WB >= Admirals >= Yonkos on average


Votes not looking so good, the age of admirals is over.
Join us Sir Wiggian


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## TheWiggian (Jun 6, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> Votes not looking so good, the age of admirals is over.
> Join us Sir Wiggian



Most votes are that they're about equal and why should I board a sinking ship? 

That's like buying coins at all time high right before the crash

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## GreenEggsAHam (Jun 6, 2021)

LightningForce said:


> Cats *think WB really stood at the top just because he was the WSM*? Cmon now we know better.


 But let me guess WSC stands at the top

Reactions: Funny 5


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## LightningForce (Jun 6, 2021)

GreenEggsAHam said:


> But let me guess WSC stands at the top



No? I’m not a hypocrite unlike you & your little Admiral circlejerk.

Kaido is not an Emperor only because he is the WSC. He is an Emperor because he is the WSC *and the crew he has amassed is comparable to that of other Emperors.

A powerful crew is a prerequisite to becoming Pirate King, who stands at the top, and has the overall forces to defeat any Pirate crew. *Doesn’t sound like Kaido to me.

Try harder next time buddy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JayK (Jun 6, 2021)

I jumped the Yonko bandwagon when I saw Big Meme getting solo'd by Rocky

Reactions: Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## trance (Jun 6, 2021)

gotta agree with lightning boyo here

each Yonko may be one-man army who account for most of the crew's overall strength but that won't amount to much when you're up against another one-man army of similar power, 3-4 elite commanders, a half dozen or so lower ranked commanders and thousands of distractions grunt soldiers

look at Mihawk; the guy can rival a Yonko in power but because its just him, he could never compete against any of the actual Yonko

Reactions: Like 1


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