# DMS Kakashi vs. Rin'negan Madara



## Ryuzaki (Jan 27, 2015)

Location: Madara vs. Gokage
Distance: 35 meters
Mindset: IC
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: None
Stipulations: Consider Madara with both Rin'negan, alive and well, but no Juubi powers at his disposal and he cannot use the statue either.

Who wins?

Edited for clarification.


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## Trojan (Jan 27, 2015)

1- People: Kakashi fodderstomps.
2- Hussain: Madara wins.
3- Raikiri: Neg me (As in Raikiri neg me(Hussain))"you are always a pathetic troll" 

Or at least those the opinions I commonly see.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm going to neg you for not taking my thread seriously and no other reason at the moment.


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## Trojan (Jan 27, 2015)

I am giving you a summery though. That's what will probably happen.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 27, 2015)

DMS Kakashi probably wins.


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## Prinz Porno (Jan 27, 2015)

DMS Kakashi can beat any version of Madara.


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## Sword of the Morning (Jan 27, 2015)

Madara spanks him.


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## Mercurial (Jan 27, 2015)

Hussain said:


> 1- People: Kakashi fodderstomps.
> 2- Hussain: Madara wins.
> 3- Raikiri: Neg me (As in Raikiri neg me(Hussain))"you are always a pathetic troll"
> 
> Or at least those the opinions I commonly see.


This.



StarWanderer said:


> DMS Kakashi probably wins.


This, he definitely wins and with ease too. Long range Kamui GG or Kamui phasing + Kamui teleporting + Kamui Raikiri blitz. Or Rikudo enhanced-Perfect Susanoo + Kamui Shuriken rapefest.



Prinz Porno said:


> DMS Kakashi can beat any version of Madara.



This, his feats are outstanding.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Jan 27, 2015)

if the madara in this thread has 2 rinnegan then he wins.

madaras PS is stronger than kakashis by feats. kamui shurikens are evaded, or madara can simply throw his PS blades to counter. madara has a stronger PS blade by feats and would win if both susano were to clash.


madara can keep him on the defensive with massive scale katons to exhaust intangibility and he has 4 limbo on guard for when kakashi tries to engage madara in cqc.


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 27, 2015)

I think the biggest problem I was looking for was going to be how Kakashi deals with those clone copies he can't see but he also has intangibility which he can use at his discretion, plus the sage-based stamina buffs are also ridiculous.


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## RedChidori (Jan 28, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> if the madara in this thread has 2 rinnegan then he wins.
> 
> madaras PS is stronger than kakashis by feats. kamui shurikens are evaded, or madara can simply throw his PS blades to counter. madara has a stronger PS blade by feats and would win if both susano were to clash.
> 
> ...



I agree with Shinobi No Kami.


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## Deer Lord (Jan 28, 2015)

We've been over this already a while back...

Kakashi beats madara pre-juubi
Juudara spanks him.


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## Ersa (Jan 28, 2015)

Kakashi should beat out any form of Madara bar Juubidara with the third eye. He's got Rikudo chakra already so that already elevates him to ridiculous levels, Kamui and PS together is probably the best defense in the entire manga. Juubidara can beat him either with Mugen Tsukiyomi or just plain outclassing him in all areas (bar some S/T hax).


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## Empathy (Jan 28, 2015)

There's _a lot_ of incarnations of Madara who have the Rinnegan; there's old man Madara, Edo Madara, _Rinne Tensei Sennin_ Madara, one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara, one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara with Shinju tree absorbed, Juubi jinchuriki Madara with Shinju tree and Kakashi's sharingan, and then Juubi jinchuuriki Madara with both Rinnegan. The last three I think would stomp Kakashi and Kakashi stomps most of the others. The only one really worth debating is one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara (the one who fought Gai), and maybe _Rinne Tensei_ Madara has a small chance due to _Rinbo_.

*Edit:* There's a thread currently active where chapter 699 Naruto is against Madara's last three incarnations and there's pretty even debate going on both sides, yet other people really think Kakashi would stomp any form of Madara?


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## sabre320 (Jan 28, 2015)

this is a mismatch plain and simple rikudo kakashi outperformed the duo against kaguya for godsakes..


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## Trojan (Jan 28, 2015)

How the hell did he outperform Naruto for 1 freaking attack and going through a bone?  

DMS Kakashi is honestly SEVERELY overrated. His level is obviously below JJ Obito nothing more.  
It's like saying the SA fodders are stronger than BM Naruto because of the little chakra they received from him. 

Is Sakura also stronger than Naruto and Sasuke because "Oh my God! She hit Kaguya!!!"


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## sabre320 (Jan 28, 2015)

Hussain said:


> How the hell did he outperform Naruto for 1 freaking attack and going through a bone?
> 
> DMS Kakashi is honestly SEVERELY overrated. His level is obviously below JJ Obito nothing more.
> It's like saying the SA fodders are stronger than BM Naruto because of the little chakra they received from him.
> ...



yeah sasuke has less chakra then juubito he is fodder comeon man chakra quantity dosent matter quality and hax trumps

how da hell u compare sakuras case with kakashis is beyond me lol

i agree naruto was extremely impressive against kaguya so ill digress but kakashi handily outperformed sasuke and he blitzed an upgraded kaguya neutralized her space time technique

dont downplay his feats man

hussain u present feats very well so give credit to kakashis feats


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## Trojan (Jan 28, 2015)

- I do not know from where you brought that info honestly, but regardless, Kakashi was using OBITO's power, or
part of it at least.  

- Kakashi hit Kaguya with a raikiri, and Sakura punched her and destroyed his horn. I hardly see the different. 

- Yeah, Sasuke sucked hard in that battle. 

I did not say Kakashi was not impressive. However, 1 hit does not make him stronger to the SOURCE of his power. Much less freaking Naruto who was handling Kaguya from the very start to the very end. So please, do not downplay the Kid. U_U


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## Bkprince33 (Jan 29, 2015)

kakashi being overrated as usual, in no way shape or form can kakashi beat jubi jin madara  




you guys cannot overate him for one successful hit he landed.



limbo would fuck his day up he isn't seeing anything, and madara has full knowledge and the speed to dodge his kamui.


he beats the other versions unless where giving rinnengon mads susano, then mads can just camp in ps and use limbo to still beat the piss out of him, he isn't going intangible against something he can't see.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Jan 29, 2015)

Like the last time(recently) this match was made madara wins it with limbo storming the battlefield and running over a kakashi who cannot detect them whatsoever or outlasting.


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## ARGUS (Jan 29, 2015)

If this madara with juubi and both rinnegan then kakashi gets raped


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## Mercurial (Jan 29, 2015)

Bkprince33 said:


> kakashi being overrated as usual, in no way shape or form can kakashi beat jubi jin madara
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I actually think that DMS Kakashi is definitely above Juubi jinchuriki Madara. From both a portrayal and feats argument; especially if we talk about their feats.

By portrayal, he directly outperformed a stronger being than Madara (countering and stopping her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, avoding her attacks thanks to Kamui phasing, hitting her 1 vs 1 thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and shitting on her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui) in Kaguya, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat (1). In a single chapter he could do better than Naruto and Sasuke together could in all the time before, he effectively changed the battle with his actions. Naruto and Sasuke together were implied to be at the very least on par with Madara (2), and effectively able to fight him more than on par, I'd say.

By feats. DMS Kakashi can avoid Mugen Tsukuyomi by teleporting in the other dimension with Kamui. He can shit on Linbo: he can camp in Perfect Susanoo (), therefore having a constant defence, and fight by long range spamming Kamui Shuriken, with either Kamui Shuriken being able to create a giant warp that closes instantly and covers an area as big as the Perfect Susanoo himself, and with them being spammable and at least four at once (), it's a big problem for Madara; as they are made by Kakashi adding Kamui's power to Susanoo, Kakashi can likely create a Kamui Sword too (5), so Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo >> Madara's Perfect Susanoo, definitely. We know that Rinnegan Sasuke could easily react to Linbo, more than once, and counter it/defend from it, more than once; the same Rinnegan Sasuke was blitzed by Kaguya's S/T (6)(7) (with Naruto being nearly blitzed too, and he also could dodge Linbo, even when he fought in his weaker form (8)). The same S/T that Kakashi easily reacted to, and outspeeded in execution with his long range version of Kamui (9)(10). So if Madara tries to one-shot with Linbo, Kakashi will always one-shot faster with Kamui, warping his head off before he can react.

Moreso: Linbo doesn't work after a certain distance, so Kakashi can camp away, then teleport behind Madara with Kamui at maximized speed (having both eyes (11) with perfect mastery and also Rikudo chakra enhancing their powers ()) and then blitz him with Kamui Raikiri; Kaguya has faster reflexes and physical speed than Madara and a S/T jutsu and couldn't dodge Kakashi's quick thrust (phasing means nothing, phasing or not she could have simply side-stepped if she could), she didn't react until he pierced her, Zetsu couldn't react too (13)(14); so Madara won't. Also Kaguya, while in a stronger form, couldn't dodge Kakashi, as shown, while she, in a weaker form, could dodge Sasuke (15)(16), the same Sasuke that could at very least trouble Madara. If it doesn't kill him (cutting his head off should suffice; but you know, Madara claims to be immortal), he warps his body in the other dimension in an istant, and he is damned to stay there forever, thus Kakashi wins. 

Kakashi also nullifies Gudodama with Rikudo chakra added to his ninjutsu, or simply warps them with Kamui or bypasses with phasing. Kakashi is also physically faster and can teleport everywhere he wants, in the real world or between the two dimensions (Kamui world and real world) as he wishes, gaining a giant advantage in mobility and tactics; something a genius fighter like him could definitely take advantage of. Kamui phasing and teleporting also let him survive Madara's multiple Chibaku Tensei, or Shin Jukai Kotan, with ease. Not to mention everything Madara does, Kakashi can basically outspeed with Kamui, in offense and in defense, this even while being in Perfect Susanoo and making a strategy with his superior intellect.

It's not overrating if his feats are outstanding. Kaguya was winning or at least stalemating with Naruto and Sasuke without really being troubled, and Kakashi came and basically settled the battle (Naruto and Sasuke only did the material sealing) against a stronger version of Kaguya. He made the plan and he fought her personally very well. After all he had maybe the most haxxed offense and maybe the most haxxed defense together with Perfect Susanoo and a general power up granted by Rikudo chakra. And his well known smartness. It's not something to be surprised of.


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## StarWanderer (Jan 29, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I actually think that DMS Kakashi is definitely above Juubi jinchuriki Madara. From both a portrayal and feats argument; especially if we talk about their feats.
> 
> By portrayal, he directly outperformed a stronger being than Madara (countering and stopping her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, avoding her attacks thanks to Kamui phasing, hitting her 1 vs 1 thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and shitting on her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui) in Kaguya, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat (1). In a single chapter he could do better than Naruto and Sasuke together could in all the time before, he effectively changed the battle with his actions. Naruto and Sasuke together were implied to be at the very least on par with Madara (2), and effectively able to fight him more than on par, I'd say.
> 
> ...



Limbo's work depends on a distance? Can you bring here a proof of that?


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## Ryuzaki (Jan 29, 2015)

Empathy said:


> There's _a lot_ of incarnations of Madara who have the Rinnegan; there's old man Madara, Edo Madara, _Rinne Tensei Sennin_ Madara, one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara, one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara with Shinju tree absorbed, Juubi jinchuriki Madara with Shinju tree and Kakashi's sharingan, and then Juubi jinchuuriki Madara with both Rinnegan. The last three I think would stomp Kakashi and Kakashi stomps most of the others. The only one really worth debating is one-eyed Juubi jinchuuriki Madara (the one who fought Gai), and maybe _Rinne Tensei_ Madara has a small chance due to _Rinbo_.
> 
> *Edit:* There's a thread currently active where chapter 699 Naruto is against Madara's last three incarnations and there's pretty even debate going on both sides, yet other people really think Kakashi would stomp any form of Madara?



Well, I had intended to be Rin'nengan Madara, alive but without the Juubi powers, essentially both eyes but no Juubi powers, then I realized that version never existed in the manga, unless we consider ET Madara, just a living version of him, without the Juubi's power to back him up. But it's really confusing since people consider so many different forms, I think the best one would be the one I mentioned earlier or the one that Naruto/Sasuke fought against but without Juubi powers, because continuous regeneration would work against Kakashi and honestly it wouldn't be fair.


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## MS81 (Jun 8, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I actually think that DMS Kakashi is definitely above Juubi jinchuriki Madara. From both a portrayal and feats argument; especially if we talk about their feats.
> 
> By portrayal, he directly outperformed a stronger being than Madara (countering and stopping her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, avoding her attacks thanks to Kamui phasing, hitting her 1 vs 1 thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and shitting on her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui) in Kaguya, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat (1). In a single chapter he could do better than Naruto and Sasuke together could in all the time before, he effectively changed the battle with his actions. Naruto and Sasuke together were implied to be at the very least on par with Madara (2), and effectively able to fight him more than on par, I'd say.
> 
> ...


This right here....


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## Amol (Jun 9, 2015)

Well Kakashi shouldn't be stronger than Obito as his powers came from him.
Juudara should beat him.
Otherwise it won't make any kind of sense .


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## Ashi (Jun 9, 2015)

Kakashi wins


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## Mercurial (Jun 9, 2015)

Amol said:


> Well Kakashi shouldn't be stronger than Obito as his powers came from him.
> Juudara should beat him.
> Otherwise it won't make any kind of sense .



By feats it clearly makes. People should remember this isn't a fucking Dragon Ball. Well even by Dragon Ball simple logic it makes, as there are Obito's Sharingan powers (part of those were already mastered by Kakashi, the rest he mastered them instantly) plus Kakashi's skills, smartness and jutsu (Kamui Raikiri combo, just think about it) and Rikudo chakra.


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## pluuuuffff (Jun 9, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I actually think that DMS Kakashi is definitely above Juubi jinchuriki Madara. From both a portrayal and feats argument; especially if we talk about their feats.
> 
> By portrayal, he directly outperformed a stronger being than Madara (countering and stopping her giant form thanks to Perfect Susanoo and Kamui Shuriken, avoding her attacks thanks to Kamui phasing, hitting her 1 vs 1 thanks to Kamui Raikiri hax + Rikudo enhanced speed and shitting on her S/T jutsu thanks to long range Kamui) in Kaguya, with Rikudo Sennin acknowledging him as the most important for Kaguya's defeat (1). In a single chapter he could do better than Naruto and Sasuke together could in all the time before, he effectively changed the battle with his actions. Naruto and Sasuke together were implied to be at the very least on par with Madara (2), and effectively able to fight him more than on par, I'd say.
> 
> ...



I agree with almost everything! 

Kakashi DMS wins indeed... If Obito MS was already broken, with Rikudo's up, god.


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