# Jiren runs a gauntlet



## Lordragoon (Oct 8, 2017)

Jiren runs a Marvel and DC gauntlet.

1. World Breaker Hulk
2. Post Crisis Superman 
3. Thor
4. Death Seed Sentry 
4. 8th Day Juggernaut
5. Post Crisis Darkseid
6. Odin 
7. Abraxas 

Blood lusted, k.o/death or BFR wins

How far can he go?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Oct 8, 2017)

Knew this was coming.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Cain1234 (Oct 8, 2017)

Seriously we are not even into serious Jiren, and people make threads about him.


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## Freddy Mercury (Oct 8, 2017)

Expecting the Jiren vs Saint Seiya thread within the next week

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Perpetrator Rex (Oct 8, 2017)

Jiren stares at this gauntlet, very hard...

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 9


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## Kaaant (Oct 8, 2017)

Whoever makes the saint seiya thread is a huge ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) and he has to be made aware of this

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 2


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## Atem (Oct 8, 2017)

Makes it all the way to four, and four. 

Maybe five, and six too.


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2017)

Lordragoon said:


> Jiren runs a Marvel and DC gauntlet.
> *
> 1. World Breaker Hulk
> 2. Post Crisis Superman
> ...


Aint nobody in the bolded is doing shit jiren

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Blocky (Oct 8, 2017)

I'll say he makes it to 5.


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## whatsausername (Oct 8, 2017)

The jiren hype is real. The goku hype also...DBS doing amazing things.


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## Imagine (Oct 8, 2017)

This isn't even hype. You can swap Jiren with any DBS character that gets the universal scaling and the results would be the same.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kurou (Oct 8, 2017)

HOLY FUCK BALLS JIREN IS EVEN MORE UNIVERSAL+ THAN GOKUS UNIVERSAL+

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Aint nobody in the bolded is doing shit jiren



Omega Beams, lobotomize, sentry molecular manipulation????  whaat how is he getting through that

Jiren is obviously superior to all of them besides Darkseid but again power doesn't always beat hax

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> Omega Beams, *lobotomize, sentry molecular manipulation??*??  whaat how is he getting through that
> 
> Jiren is obviously superior to all of them besides Darkseid but again power doesn't always beat hax


When lobotomy bypass durability let alone universal level durability you have to prove it can work on characters on jiren tier 
Omega beam debatable considering goku and freeza resisted an attack that would've erased there existence and both aren't shit to jiren then again don't know where post crisis darkseid sit at 
Besides jiren could blitz the shit outta them before they could try


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> When lobotomy bypass durability let alone universal level durability you have to prove it can work on characters on jiren tier
> Omega beam debatable considering goku and freeza resisted an attack that would've erased there existence and both aren't shit to jiren then again don't know where post crisis darkseid sit at
> Besides jiren could blitz the shit outta them before they could try



it's targetitng your organs, your biological structure your brain


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> it's targetitng your organs, your biological structure your brain


No shit? Jiren's internal organs are as durable as the rest of his body so unless Darkseid's Omega Beams are universal+, it won't work.

Which Darkseid isn't unless we're using True Darkseid who's multiverse level.


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> No shit? Jiren's internal organs are as durable as the rest of his body so unless Darkseid's Omega Beams are universal+, it won't work.
> 
> Which Darkseid isn't unless we're using True Darkseid who's multiverse level.



What? 

Where did you get his internal organs are as durable as rest of his body? even poison seems to work against goku


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> What?
> 
> Where did you get his internal organs are as durable as rest of his body? even poison seems to work against goku


The fact Jiren can tank universe level punches and not die from shit like internal bleeding?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 5


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## KaiserWombat (Oct 8, 2017)

Imagine said:


> This isn't even hype. You can swap Jiren with any DBS character that gets the universal scaling and the results would be the same.



This is what Dragon Ball mostly struggles with in major cross-fictional vs debates, that a surprising number of posters can seemingly forget: internal battle power gulfs =/= universally recognisable gulfs/boosts in cross-fictional attribute(s), ala energy output, speed, etc.

Jiren is a full Super Saiyan transformation, *bare minimum*, ahead of SSjin Blue Goku in terms of powerlevel, but from the perspective of any setting outside of DB, both are barely more relevant than SSjin Red Goku as he was against Beerus in the very first arc of Super.

Even if you follow up on the virtual confirmation of full power Jiren >/= a God of Destruction, the universally recognisable difference between a GoD's displayed feats and BoS SSjin Red Goku's is borderline negligable.

In all honesty, current feat(s) Jiren is most probably winning and losing to the exact same character(s) in this gauntlet as Goku would've in his "serious" fight against Beerus.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Imagine (Oct 8, 2017)

They just need more unique abilities tbh. It's an accomplishment when Beerus gets basic soul destroying abilities.


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> The fact Jiren can tank universe level punches and not die from shit like internal bleeding?



Superman's Torquism ro and vo is similiar to what jiren did like moving his body on his own and stuff. 
plus i don't think he would know that type of kryptonian fighting style


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> Superman's Torquism ro and vo is similiar to what jiren did like moving his body on his own and stuff.
> plus i don't think he would know that type of kryptonian fighting style



Mastery of Self Movement isn't a "fighting style" in Dragon Ball Super; it is a state of being where one can instantly react to anything without needing to think.  

It closely resembles real life .


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Mastery of Self Movement isn't a "fighting style" in Dragon Ball Super; it is a state of being where one can instantly react to anything without needing to think.
> 
> It closely resembles real life .



they CLEARLY told us that its a technique that not even the hakaishin havent even mastered yet


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Mastery of Self Movement isn't a "fighting style" in Dragon Ball Super; it is a state of being where one can instantly react to anything without needing to think.
> 
> It closely resembles real life .



and are you saying if he does master it later on he'll have instant combat speed? sometimes i wonder, you're literally implying anyone that's MFTL you would be able to dodge if you have total mastery over the mastery of self movement smh


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> and are you saying if he does master it later on he'll have instant combat speed? sometimes i wonder, you're literally implying anyone that's MFTL you would be able to dodge if you have total mastery over the mastery of self movement smh



You are making a lot of assumptions, but I am not surprised you do so when someone is debating against western comics.

It means that characters _do not need to think about _reacting to enemy attacks, or think about attacking; their bodies react on their own without input from the mind.

-------------------------------------------------

To get back on topic, Jiren goes all the way up to #6 on the list, and then loses to Abraxas.


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You are making a lot of assumptions, but I am not surprised you do so when someone is debating against western comics.
> 
> It means that characters _do not need to think about _reacting to enemy attacks, or think about attacking; their bodies react on their own without input from the mind.
> 
> ...



that means absolutely nothing, these characters on the list would still be able to blitz jiren regardless if he has mastery over that technique since they have faster speed feats


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 8, 2017)

Well if it's true that Jiren is above the GoDs, he could possibly scale to the quadrillions of c's feats that both Beerus and Whis have.

So he's going to be a pain in the ass to fight because he might have better speed than most of the gauntlet he's facing.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 8, 2017)

What's the point of this? This isn't like Zeno where he has a feat so far above everybody else. He rivals the GoDs and maybe exceeds them by a small margin. That's not going to make him multiversal or some shit. He's still universal+. As Imagine said, swap Jiren out with any relevant DBS character and the result is the same.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Well if it's true that Jiren is above the GoDs, he could possibly scale to the quadrillions of c's feats that both Beerus and Whis have.
> 
> So he's going to be a pain in the ass to fight because he might have better speed than most of the gauntlet he's facing.



>whis

>quadrillion

either you trolling or im seeing stuff. Whis was always in the trillions ballpark, putting him at quadrillions is insane and regardless that'll just be his travel speed not combat speed


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> >whis
> 
> >quadrillion
> 
> either you trolling or im seeing stuff. Whis was always in the trillions ballpark, putting him at quadrillions is insane and regardless that'll just be his travel speed not combat speed


I didn't calc that feat. You wanna take it up with someone, take it up with God Movement that did.

Also, travel speed and combat speed is irrelevant. Do I have to post that Taekwondo video again showing that his kicking speed is >>>>> running speed?


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> I didn't calc that feat. You wanna take it up with someone, take it up with God Movement that did.
> 
> Also, travel speed and combat speed is irrelevant. Do I have to post that Taekwondo video again showing that his kicking speed is >>>>> running speed?



because applying rl to a fiction like dbz is logical. sure sure


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> because applying rl to a fiction like dbz is logical. sure sure


It's an analogy you dip. There's no reason to assume fighting speed is less than travelling. 

If anything, fighting speed should be marginally faster than traveling in most cases.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SSBMonado (Oct 8, 2017)

DBS is no different than Z when it comes to how stuck the characters are in their tiers.
SSJ Vegito is thousands upon thousands of times stronger than first form Freeza, but they are both still in the same tier. Likewise, Jiren would crush BoG Goku between his finger tips, but he's still universe level, only really really really REALLY casually so.


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 8, 2017)

SSBMonado said:


> DBS is no different than Z when it comes to how stuck the characters are in their tiers.
> SSJ Vegito is thousands upon thousands of times stronger than first form Freeza, but they are both still in the same tier. Likewise, Jiren would crush BoG Goku between his finger tips, but he's still universe level, only really really really REALLY casually so.



exactly, and for vegito to be solar system level he'd have to be billion times more powerful than freeza but he isnt. he's thousands


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## Gordo solos (Oct 8, 2017)

Comic fan 101 said:


> exactly, and for vegito to be solar system level he'd have to be billion times more powerful than freeza but he isnt. he's thousands


Stfu


Also Big J is a beast

Reactions: Funny 8 | Winner 1


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Oct 8, 2017)

So, i'm going to say that we'll see those 2 people from universe 4 who we cant see a day after we see them do something in a thread here.


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## Gordo solos (Oct 9, 2017)

17 should rush Jiren. And get his bitch ass eliminated instantly


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

I dont get why everyone is so hype for Jiren.
Just because he is strong?


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## jkujbkjhffd (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> I dont get why everyone is so hype for Jiren.
> Just because he is strong?



Yes


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Pandamonium said:


> Yes


Well that is just silly.
Maybe they should read Suggs work

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Gordo solos (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> I dont get why everyone is so hype for Jiren.
> Just because he is strong?


Cuz he is awesome

Reactions: Winner 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 9, 2017)

Lordragoon said:


> 1. World Breaker Hulk
> 2. Post Crisis Superman
> 3. Thor
> 4. Death Seed Sentry
> ...


He makes it to 5 bare minimum


Lordragoon said:


> 6. Odin


Pretty sure he gets the shit haxxed out of him

Also pretty sure Odin holds a very solid stat advantage...BAre minimum they are peers but odin has hax so hed win for sure


The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> swap Jiren out with any relevant DBS character and the result is the same.


This


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Cuz he is awesome


And he is awesome because....


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## THEALMIGHTYGUY (Oct 9, 2017)

Jiren hits em with his menacing stare then flexes; gg no re.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> And he is awesome because....


He takes his protein supplements

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Blαck (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> And he is awesome because....



When you got guys scared to run up with their universe on the line it says alot about your level of badassery


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> I dont get why everyone is so hype for Jiren.
> Just because he is strong?



Because for the first time in decades, Jiren is the first true opponent that has ever put Goku on the ropes _*even worse*_ than Frieza back in the Namek Saga, all without needing to "absorb others for power", or lacking any special regenerative abilities.  Jiren is raw power, plain and simple.  His fighting style is also direct and to the point, as no one else has _ever_ forced Goku to go all out and use every ace-in-the-hole he has _in as short a time-span as Jiren has_.  

And keep in mind this: he has _mortal Ki._ *He does not have God Ki.*


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Because for the first time in decades, Jiren is the first true opponent that has ever put Goku on the ropes _*even worse*_ than Frieza back in the Namek Saga, all without needing to "absorb others for power", or lacking any special regenerative abilities.  Jiren is raw power, plain and simple.  His fighting style is also direct and to the point, as no one else has _ever_ forced Goku to go all out and use every ace-in-the-hole he has _in as short a time-span as Jiren has_.
> 
> And keep in mind this: he has _mortal Ki._ *He does not have God Ki.*


A reason at last, But honestly is it really something that new? I will admit I was drunk off my ass when I watched the last few episodes, but really it just seems like any time Goku has been fought back.
I dont think that God Ki vs Mortal Ki, or not absorbing people matters, it isnt like he has an epic story of how he had to work for those powers ala Lee.

To me I just see him as a strong guy, I dont see how he is any more threatening than Freeza, or any other non passable block for Goku, even going all the way back to Tao in Dragonball.



Blαck said:


> When you got guys scared to run up with their universe on the line it says alot about your level of badassery


I mean, anyone can be strong enough to scare people, if they wrote in a character 1000x stronger than Zeno it automatically make them a good character


WorldsStrongest said:


> He takes his protein supplements


So character design and strength?


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## Blαck (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> At least that is an answer, though I dont think that just being so strong is that impressive.
> I mean, characters like Tao have been stomping Goku into the dirt from the first chapter.
> 
> I dont see how it is worse than Frieza, or any of the others, though I will admit I was drunk when I watched the last 2 or 3 episodes.


Difference is when goku transformed against frieza is was gameover. Jiren couldn't locate a single fuck about goku changing here.


> So character design and strength?


Yes


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> So character design and strength?



Personality, too.  He's shown a no-nonsense attitude when fighting opponents, which is rarely seen in many manga.  If main villains behaved like him in other stories, the protagonists would never stand a chance.


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## Gordo solos (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> And he is awesome because....


Masculine AYY LMAO alien who has Gods of Destruction sweat over his power is not awesome enough?


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> Masculine AYY LMAO alien who has Gods of Destruction sweat over his power is not awesome enough?


Power doesnt make a character good to me


Blαck said:


> Difference is when goku transformed against frieza is was gameover. Jiren couldn't locate a single fuck about goku changing here.
> 
> Yes


You have a point here, the whole "Hero powers up and wins" trope is averted here, but that doesnt lend to the character for me, especially since he will prolly just power up again and wind up winning.


Catalyst75 said:


> Personality, too.  He's shown a no-nonsense attitude when fighting opponents, which is rarely seen in many manga.  If main villains behaved like him in other stories, the protagonists would never stand a chance.



Idk I wouldnt call it a rare attitude really.


Maybe I need to give the last few episodes a re-watch, but it didn't all click for me, but I guess it comes down to taste.
It isnt that I dont think he is cool, it is just that soo many people are soooo hyped about him it makes me think the whole " the only reason people watch DB is to see strong guys punch each other" sterotype is true.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> Maybe I need to give the last few episodes a re-watch, but it didn't all click for me, but I guess it comes down to taste.
> It isnt that I dont think he is cool, it is just that soo many people are soooo hyped about him it makes me think the whole " the only reason people watch DB is to see strong guys punch each other" sterotype is true.



Esano, after the last major arc had an immortal main villain(s) with a Potara Fusion in the form of Zamasu, ending with an Giygas form that required summoning Zen-Oh to one-shot the Multiverse down to its constituent particles to kill him, we were wondering who the next big power in Dragon Ball Super would be.  Goku wanted the Tournament of Power specifically to find someone like Jiren to fight against.  

We knew Jiren had to be strong, and we already had implications he was the rumored mortal stronger than a God of Destruction, the level of power Goku has been chasing since the very first arc of Super.  The build-up was with his nonchalance throughout the tournament, as well as his tendency to one-shot other powerful characters.

Episodes 109 and 110 were the pay-off, which included the Ultra Instinct form.


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## Gordo solos (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> Power doesnt make a character good to me


+ his stoic attitude + design? 

Stoic characters are usually hit and miss for me but I've stuck with Jiren since the beginning. He's definitely delivered


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Esano, after the last major arc had an immortal main villain(s) with a Potara Fusion in the form of Zamasu, ending with an Giygas form that required summoning Zen-Oh to one-shot the Multiverse down to its constituent particles to kill him, we were wondering who the next big power in Dragon Ball Super would be.  Goku wanted the Tournament of Power specifically to find someone like Jiren to fight against.
> 
> We knew Jiren had to be strong, and we already had implications he was the rumored mortal stronger than a God of Destruction, the level of power Goku has been chasing since the very first arc of Super.  The build-up was with his nonchalance throughout the tournament, as well as his tendency to one-shot other powerful characters.
> 
> Episodes 109 and 110 were the pay-off, which included the Ultra Instinct form.


Alright that is some good reasoning, it does makes sense, having him be the embodiment of the challenge that Goku has been looking for, he does have a bit of a grandness to him.

But I cannot compare him to characters like Freeza, King Piccolo and others who had more of a looming threat throughout arcs, who took friends away,  who made goku feel completely low, etc.
The great buildup of those arcs are part of why I love Dragonball, and it isnt just Jiren, this whole arc seems to just be throwing strong people together to fight, it seems to lack the stuff many other DB and Shonen Tournament arcs have and that makes it hard for me to see Jiren as more than just another strong fighter thrown into a room to fight.


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Gordo solos said:


> + his stoic attitude + design?
> 
> Stoic characters are usually hit and miss for me but I've stuck with Jiren since the beginning. He's definitely delivered


Idk, I guess I usually just find stoic characters to well, lack character, and if they arent explained well and defined, they just feel empty.


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## Blαck (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> Alright that is some good reasoning, it does makes sense, having him be the embodiment of the challenge that Goku has been looking for, he does have a bit of a grandness to him.
> 
> *But I cannot compare him to characters like Freeza, King Piccolo and others who had more of a looming threat throughout arcs, who took friends away,  who made goku feel completely low, etc.*
> The great buildup of those arcs are part of why I love Dragonball, and it isnt just Jiren, this whole arc seems to just be throwing strong people together to fight, it seems to lack the character glue that other shonen tourney arcs had, and that makes it hard for me to see Jiren as more than just another strong fighter thrown into a room to fight.



Doesn't jiren represent that and more? If goku can't beat him then it won't just be him that loses but his entire universe.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Doesn't jiren represent that and more? If goku can't beat him then it won't just be him that loses but his entire universe.


That is the thing though, the threat of the universe going away just feels empty, and not only because we know it wont.
It doesnt have the personal weight from many of the past arcs.


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Anyway, we are getting off topic, maybe we can continue this another time.
Maybe I just need to give Jiren another chance, or maybe the arc just isnt doing it for me, it all just seems a bit..off.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

I mean Esano has a point. Jiren's defining trait is literally "I'm strong." That's all there is to him. He's your stereotypical stoic badass, which there's a dime a dozen of in fiction. There's no interesting backstory for him (at least not yet), no interesting character traits, nothing. Even his design is bleh because he has 9 other characters wearing the exact same shit as him. Now I like Jiren, but he's not a particularly deep or compelling character. That's not necessarily a bad thing considering it's DB, but it shouldn't be hard to see why some people, who don't think strength automatically equates to an awesome character, find Jiren to be shallow.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

Except it isnt even just his strength



The reason people like Jiren (me anyway) happens to be his finesse. He doesnt just boast his enormous strength nor is he some mindless bloodknight.


He doesnt make a move without a purpose and when he does make a move he leaves onlookers in shock and awe. The way he moves and the way he fights also show a level of skill way beyond the other fighters. Not just power. Even when faced with something new and unexpected he keeps his calm and adapts.He's what DB has been missing since its pt1 days.

An actual martial artist

Reactions: Like 8


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Except is even just his strength
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I mean that's nice and all, but none of that enhances a complete lack of character depth. It just goes back to what I said previously about his whole shtick being "I'm strong." That's all there is to him. He's no different than Hit or hundreds of other characters throughout fiction in that regard. He's the stereotypical stoic badass who's always calm because of his superior power.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I mean that's nice and all, but none of that enhances a complete lack of character depth. It just goes back to what I said previously about his whole shtick being "I'm strong." That's all there is to him. He's no different than Hit or hundreds of other characters throughout fiction in that regard. He's the stereotypical stoic badass who's always calm because of his superior power.




I mean I wasnt saying he was deep. That doesnt make him uninteresting

If youre only judging on base characteristics im afraid you wont many characters in Anime/manga that arent a trope

Its why we look for nuance


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> I mean I wasnt saying he was deep. That doesnt make him uninteresting
> 
> If youre only judging on base characteristics im afraid you wont many characters in Anime/manga that arent a trope
> 
> Its why we look for nuance



I didn't say he was uninteresting. Interesting suggests there's mysteries about him, which there are. How he managed to attain strength rivaling the GoDs is one of them. I just said it shouldn't be hard to see why some people don't automatically go "OMG Jiren-Sama is awesome!" Not everybody cares about strength in regards to how they view a character and seeing as that's Jiren's whole shtick so far, it's not surprising some view him as shallow. I've already said that I like Jiren (not nearly as much as a few other DB characters with much more character development and personality like Beerus and Vegeta), but he is pretty shallow, so I can see why Esano wouldn't really care for him.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> I didn't say he was uninteresting. Interesting suggests there's mysteries about him, which there are. How he managed to attain strength rivaling the GoDs is one of them. I just said it shouldn't be hard to see why some people don't automatically go "OMG Jiren-Sama is awesome!" Not everybody cares about strength in regards to how they view a character and seeing as that's Jiren's whole shtick so far, it's not surprising some view him as shallow. I've already said that I like Jiren (not nearly as much as a few other DB characters with much more character development and personality like Beerus and Vegeta), but he is pretty shallow, so I can see why Esano wouldn't really care for him.



Yeah I can see why




But knowing how he got strong wouldnt add depth to him anyway. You can literally look at how he's acted so far and draw the conclusion that this friend trains very hard. 

He's the embodiment of an ideal warrior and doesnt need some crazy/sobby backstory on how he got stronger


Legit if his backstory is anything other than him training hard it would ruin the entire image theyve been building for him

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Yeah I can see why
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It would. Training very hard doesn't grant you the strength that Jiren has. Whis even made it a point earlier in the series that normal training, regardless of how intense, would not allow Vegeta to reach Beerus' level. So there's got to be some reason for Jiren's monstrous strength considering it's implied that a mortal reaching such a level is inconceivable. I'm not saying it needs to be a sob backstory, but elaborating on how he got that strong would certainly add a layer of depth to him.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> It would. Training very hard doesn't grant you the strength that Jiren has. Whis even made it a point earlier in the series that normal training, regardless of how intense, would not allow Vegeta to reach Beerus' level. So there's got to be some reason for Jiren's monstrous strength considering it's implied that a mortal reaching such a level is inconceivable. I'm not saying it needs to be a sob backstory, but elaborating on how he got that strong would certainly add a layer of depth to him.



A mortal reaching the level of GoDs was already inconceivable so how would him having attained his strength through training be even more farfetched? Again, he's meant to embody the ideal warrior



I dont mean all he did was push ups sit ups and 10km runs all his life. Maybe some meditating ect thrown in. But if isnt just him training and its through some kind of special powerup/transformation/alligningofthestarsintheuniverseduringhisbirth it just makes everything he's done seem cheap af.

Tho thats just my opinion so meh


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> A mortal reaching the level of GoDs was already inconceivable so how would him having attained his strength through training be even more farfetched? Again, he's meant to embody the ideal warrior
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because it completely goes against what Whis said earlier in the series. Normal training should not yield results that allow one to fight on par with a GoD. I don't see why it would make it cheap at all. It would be consistent with the series and it would actually make sense as to why he has that strength rather than an explanation like "I do a lot of push ups and sit ups and I drink plenty of juice." That would just make the character even more lackluster IMO.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

I completely disagree


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> I completely disagree



Fair enough. To each their own.


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## Roman (Oct 9, 2017)

Goku and Vegeta also went through some unreal training to get to where they are. I don't see why it would be abnormal for Jiren to have undergone some crazy shit himself

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

Roman said:


> Goku and Vegeta also went through some unreal training to get to where they are. I don't see why it would be abnormal for Jiren to have undergone some crazy shit himself



Yeah

A lot of it was intense physical training beyond what they normally did and learning things like super fine control of god ki learning to move without thinking ect


All things Jiren could have done on his own. (Minus the god ki) Without the help of the god or special transformations and quickie powerups. Thats the kind of training im saying he did.  Not some generic basic lvl training


If his back story is something like he's a genius mutant or his race had to hold hands in a magic ritual for him to get stronger ect itd ruin his image as being a perfect warrior. 


But again thats just me


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## Roman (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> (Minus the god ki) Without the help of the god or special transformations and quickie powerups.



Goku didn't get SSJG on his own. Granted Vegeta did, but only after he started training with Whis. Who's to say the other condition for getting SSJG was training with gods? Considering how chummy Vermound is with Jiren, I'm not doubting he trained with him and Marcarita to get to where he is.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

Eh maybe

But the way Vermouth looked when he was talking about Jiren implied (to me anyway) that Jiren was already stronger than him when they met

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Roman (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Eh maybe
> 
> But the way Vermouth looked when he was talking about Jiren implied (to me anyway) that Jiren was already stronger than him when they met



There's no evidence for thay tbh, and I didn't get those vibes at all, so it's rather subjective instead of factual, therefore not something you should use in an argument


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

Roman said:


> There's no evidence for thay tbh, and I didn't get those vibes at all, so it's rather subjective instead of factual, therefore not something you should use in an argument




Now


Show me where exactly we were arguing facts and not opinions


Ill wait


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## Roman (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Show me where exactly we were arguing facts and not opinions



The fact thay Whis stated Jiren didn't get his strength through normal training? The fact that Goku also didn't get his strength through normal training (SSJG)?


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

.........


Again you missed what I was saying


I saying he probably went through similar training Goku and Vegeta went through with Whis, but unlike them getting guidance Jiren did it on his own which is what I guess the other guy was missing when I said training


You then came in and said he probably trained with Vermouth and I said with how Vermouth looked speaking about him he was probably stronger than him when he met.

(Mind you the entire time we even expressed that these were just our opinions)

And you then come in and say I cant use that because its opinion and not fact


In an argument over opinions....


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## Divell (Oct 9, 2017)

Definitely stops at Death Seed Sentry. He casually walked over Thor as if Hulk was fighting a tank or Naruto in his Bijuu Mode fighting Sakura per Byakugou.


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## Atem (Oct 9, 2017)

Naw, Sentry gets body slammed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gordo solos (Oct 9, 2017)

Jiren should eliminate 17's bitch ass already

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## The Mathemagician (Oct 9, 2017)

Jiren tells the gauntlet to Get Lost.


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Yeah I can see why
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imagine Lee without the backstory. 
A backstory can definitely add to a character.


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Divell said:


> Definitely stops at Death Seed Sentry. He casually walked over Thor as if Hulk was fighting a tank or Naruto in his Bijuu Mode fighting Sakura per Byakugou.


Universe level >(imagine a thousand more >>>)  Regular Thor


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## Divell (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> Universe level >(imagine a thousand more >>>)  Regular Thor


Is Galactus are Odin below Universal as well? Is Surtur? Cause Thor as hell can harm them.


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## Esano (Oct 9, 2017)

Divell said:


> Is Galactus are Odin below Universal as well? Is Surtur? Cause Thor as hell can harm them.


Pretty much. They have some feats that could be seen as above that but they usually arent portrayed as universal.

And Thor hasn't really stood a chance versus any of those guys without buffs.


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## Kurou (Oct 9, 2017)

Esano said:


> Imagine Lee without the backstory.
> A backstory can definitely add to a character.




Depends on the type of character you're trying to portray


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## Esano (Oct 10, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Depends on the type of character you're trying to portray


True that,
but you did say


> But knowing how he got strong wouldnt add depth to him anyway



And that is just not true, it could add depth, it is not guaranteed, but learning a backstory can definitely add depth to a character.
And we also dont know what kind of character they are trying to portray, or if this is his full personality.


Jiren to me just doesnt seem that different or interesting.
Freeza also barely did anything, and when he did left everyone in shock and awe, but there was more to freeza, choices that he made, a personality, a deep connection to the other characters, various emotions to go through and an active place in the story, as well as causing trauma to the heros.

To me Jiren right now just feels like an obstacle, the whole arc kinda just feels like throw strong people together and see what happens.
I am sure things will change later and he might even become much more interesting, but as of right now he is cool, but I could not see why so many people have latched onto him, there are some explanations. It does seem to be because he is strong, but I also think it is because he is a new character, and thus hasnt been brought down a peg like Piccolo, Freeza, Perfect Cell, Hit and other all powerful characters.

But you know what I can understand liking a character for small reasons, I have done it myself, just was wondering what people saw in Jiren in particular.


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## Divell (Oct 10, 2017)

Esano said:


> Pretty much. They have some feats that could be seen as above that but they usually arent portrayed as universal.
> 
> And Thor hasn't really stood a chance versus any of those guys without buffs.


Funny considering every single time they are fighting. Thor has not a single buff.


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## The World (Oct 10, 2017)

Esano said:


> True that,
> but you did say
> 
> 
> ...


people are trying to hype themselves up about this fanfic abortion of a show. finding any little thing to latch on to because muh nostalgia.

I have to admit I enjoyed the last 2 episodes because of Jiren vs Goku and the step up in animation.


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## Imagine (Oct 10, 2017)

Very rarely is Waurdo right about something. Wew lad.


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## Freddy Mercury (Oct 10, 2017)

That's nice and all, but when did this become an argument about character depth instead of an actual gauntlet?


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## Claudio Swiss (Oct 10, 2017)

Freddie Mercury said:


> That's nice and all, but when did this become an argument about character depth instead of an actual gauntlet?


Don't know why almost every recent thread has to be x character quality instead of the thread main purpose


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## Divell (Oct 10, 2017)

The World said:


> people are trying to hype themselves up about this fanfic abortion of a show. finding any little thing to latch on to because muh nostalgia.
> 
> I have to admit I enjoyed the last 2 episodes because of Jiren vs Goku and the step up in animation.


Kinda reminds me of trump suporters, no? But is kinda understandable. The show was pretty good in the original continuity.


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## Divell (Oct 10, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Don't know why almost every recent thread has to be x character quality instead of the thread main purpose


Welcome to OBD.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Esano (Oct 10, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Don't know why almost every recent thread has to be x character quality instead of the thread main purpose


Because every single character in DBS is basically at the same level and have no distint abilities.


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## Divell (Oct 10, 2017)

Esano said:


> Examples?


Just a few of modern Thor:

*Spoiler*: __ 




Puts Odin on his kness

Bulrushes through Galactus,

knocks Phoenix into a planet


Smacks God Hercules in the face

Knocks Glory who is in essence a Walking Pantheon



Thor has consistently smacked Odin lv being and hurt them pretty bad on almost every day comic o his. And none of them is Thor amp. This guys are at least Galaxy+.


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## The Mathemagician (Oct 10, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Except it isnt even just his strength
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pretty much. I love this about Jiren. I want to see more from him, but it isn't really his strength, but how he carries it. He's very prideful in his strength and enjoys being at the top, but he (unlike most DB antagonists) doesn't bother flaunting his moves, makes only the necessary actions and only really talks when necessary. You're also right, he keeps his cool. The biggest draw to the character for me is the fact that he's unlike any other DB antagonist. 

In a series filled with antagonists with colorful personalities and many of them being arrogant douchebags who can be quite sadistic, this one dude is so damn detached from the situation, his allies, and everything going on to the point he comes off alien in every sense of the word. Jiren is a rarity in DB. He's nothing complex, and had there been something like him in DB before, I probably wouldn't really like him as much as I do, but he really isn't what you'd usually get in DB.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Esano (Oct 10, 2017)

Divell said:


> Just a few of modern Thor:
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


Eh, Like I said in that doom thread, this is part of why I hate debating comics.
All of these people are obviously above Thor, but then again he did hurt them, so Thor should scale to anything they can completely Brush off, except they have completely brushed off attacks from each other and other characters we know for a fact are stronger than Thor.
But Thor has been able to do some ridiculous things with his Hammer before, it is almost like it varies in power, because if he can hurt these guys, he should be able to one shot some other villains, and any time he fights other heros he should one shot them. It would also imply he cannot tank his own hammer shots as other people have hurt him that shouldnt be able to if he can, but if they have, you could call it inconsistent, but then again you could say the same thing about him hurting the big guys.

I think I gave myself a headache.
But maybe we could argue he is on that level with his strongest attacks, and just stupidly holds back the rest of the time, When it comes to inconsistent stuff in fiction I just try to go with the most consistent or most logical conclusion, i'm not sure which one that is though.


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## Divell (Oct 10, 2017)

Esano said:


> Eh, Like I said in that doom thread, this is part of why I hate debating comics.
> All of these people are obviously above Thor, but then again he did hurt them, so Thor should scale to anything they can completely Brush off, except they have completely brushed off attacks from each other and other characters we know for a fact are stronger than Thor.
> But Thor has been able to do some ridiculous things with his Hammer before, it is almost like it varies in power, because if he can hurt these guys, he should be able to one shot some other villains, and any time he fights other heros he should one shot them. It would also imply he cannot tank his own hammer shots as other people have hurt him that shouldnt be able to if he can, but if they have, you could call it inconsistent, but then again you could say the same thing about him hurting the big guys.
> 
> ...


The inconsistency is made in Marvel by saying "Thor holds back against Mortals". Sometimes this gets to sertain shit like Hulk beating him with his own hammer (after getting seriously mad) and things like that. Heck I remember Iron Man once matching him in strength but in other comics he gets destroyed in battle.

And yes, comics get sometimes ridiculous. I remember Superman once shrugging off death itself (the DC personification), surviving the collision of planets, etc, etc, etc. Hell, Hyperion took the collision of two planets, resulting in the universes crumbling away, and survived in nothingness or the void or whatever you wanna call whatever space exist when there is no Universe. Hulk and Thor have been able to hurt him several times even though he should be above them. But hey, Thor moves a wheel is connected to Yggdrasil, which reaches throughout the 9 worlds, moving them all:

military vexilla
military vexilla
Art looks 90s or early 2000s.

Not sure about the issue here either, but art looks 80s:


Dude also teleported Surtur and Ymi together,
military vexilla

Also, dude give 25% of the energy required to save a multiverse,




Thor is well beyond the Solar System lv. I kinda dislike that of him. Writers are seriously inconsistent in his feats. Sometimes you see Thor jobbing as a street leveler, and then you get Thor saving the multiverse.

PD: which dumb thread?


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## Esano (Oct 11, 2017)

Divell said:


> The inconsistency is made in Marvel by saying "Thor holds back against Mortals". Sometimes this gets to sertain shit like Hulk beating him with his own hammer (after getting seriously mad) and things like that. Heck I remember Iron Man once matching him in strength but in other comics he gets destroyed in battle.
> 
> And yes, comics get sometimes ridiculous. I remember Superman once shrugging off death itself (the DC personification), surviving the collision of planets, etc, etc, etc. Hell, Hyperion took the collision of two planets, resulting in the universes crumbling away, and survived in nothingness or the void or whatever you wanna call whatever space exist when there is no Universe. Hulk and Thor have been able to hurt him several times even though he should be above them. But hey, Thor moves a wheel is connected to Yggdrasil, which reaches throughout the 9 worlds, moving them all:
> 
> ...



I mean holding back can only go so far, especially when many of the people would not count as mortal, heck what counts as mortal? Technically Galactus is mortal .

And holding back is holding back but if you are saying he can control his power he should still be able to hold back just enough to one or two shot them, instead of getting bloodied up.

And you could call the instances where he shouldnt be holding back yet still doesnt one shot them inconsistent, or you could call the times he fights Skyfathers inconsistent, its part of why this comic is a bitch.

It gets even worse when you take into consideration durability, for example if you say he can tank his own Mjolnir strikes, then that adds even more inconsistencies with all the times people have kicked the shit out of him.

I guess it comes down to what makes more sense.

Anyway, not Dumb thread, Doom thread, Doom runs Star wars, I was arguing that doom has enough magic, tech, and energy attacks to beat Revan, since he has hurt guys like Thor, Hulk etc multiple times, and has spells that even strange finds impressive, as well as a forcefield that has tanked planet busters multiple times, etc etc.
But I was basically told they werent consistent enough.
But what sucks is there is no way to prove something is consistent, nor is there a consensus on what is consistent, I, and usually most others, seem to go with the higher end feats, ignoring the utterly silly ones and ones that are contradicted many times, as well as ignoring those same type of feats on the low end.


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## Divell (Oct 11, 2017)

Esano said:


> I mean holding back can only go so far, especially when many of the people would not count as mortal, heck what counts as mortal? Technically Galactus is mortal .
> 
> And holding back is holding back but if you are saying he can control his power he should still be able to hold back just enough to one or two shot them, instead of getting bloodied up.
> 
> ...


"Star Wars fans" and Anime fans will always give out that kinda of answer. Even though is actually consistently and over his grasp. Dr Doom is known for stealing people's power under the hour and he can travel through time. 

That's why I kinda stopped reading his comics altogether. Dude got matched by Iron Man once, and was busting planets other time.


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## Reznor (Oct 11, 2017)

We've barely even seen Jiren fight nor got an explanation of any of his unique gimmicks. This thread is premature. No point in this.

I suppose "can't be beat by a God of Destruction" implies that Hakai wouldn't work on him and you can get some resistances with that.


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## Esano (Oct 11, 2017)

Reznor said:


> We've barely even seen Jiren fight nor got an explanation of any of his unique gimmicks. This thread is premature. No point in this.
> 
> I suppose "can't be beat by a God of Destruction" implies that Hakai wouldn't work on him and you can get some resistances with that.


Hmmm, I didnt think of that, you dont think that is stretching it? I guess not if we take it literally..


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## Reznor (Oct 11, 2017)

Esano said:


> Hmmm, I didnt think of that, you dont think that is stretching it? I guess not if we take it literally..


My main point is that new Jiren threads in OBD are premature since, from an OBD standpoint, this is all Jiren brings to the table over any other universe tier person.


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## Esano (Oct 11, 2017)

Reznor said:


> My main point is that new Jiren threads in OBD are premature since, from an OBD standpoint, this is all Jiren brings to the table over any other universe tier person.


Yeah I agree.


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## Weather (Oct 11, 2017)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Don't know why almost every recent thread has to be x character quality instead of the thread main purpose



Hence why the current OBD is a Joke Battedome itself.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Oct 11, 2017)

I dont know. I like Jiren with how he breaks down established god tiers.

Kale going Broly on everyone? Jiren tells her to take a fucking nap.

slime guy roided out one arm? 
Jiren doesnt need to even touch him.

Goku Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Times 20? Please. Make this easier on yourself.

Sure. ill stand here and wait for your spirit bomb.

Everyone else?

Jiren was an established monster from the beginning. 

The God of Destruction Beerus with his universal chopsticks was writing his will with his chances of u7 surviving going down the drain.

That last part was an exaggeration. yeah. sorry.

TLDR. Jiren purposely no sells and fodders what seem to be powerful foes.

the bystanders comments add to it.

How fast is sentry in comparison to DBS top speeds? If hes anything like supes, i wouldnt be surprised about 2fast2hax

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Oct 11, 2017)

yea you can tell he takes pleasure in crushing people at the peak of thier strength. 

his difference from the usual DB antagonist is what makes him interesting

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 11, 2017)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> yea you can tell he takes pleasure in crushing people at the peak of thier strength.
> 
> his difference from the usual DB antagonist is what makes him interesting



In a sense, he is not that different from _Goku.  _In the case of Frieza, Goku allowed him to reach 100% to fight him at his full strength, and was satisfied with crushing Frieza's pride, rather than killing him.  Even in the case with Cell, Goku had no problem with giving Cell a Senzu, because he knew Gohan's potential was great enough to make Cell's power insignificant.  

Jiren himself could be looking for someone who is more powerful than him to fight, and is why he lets his opponents use their full strength before he bests them with his power - once he decides a opponent's full strength is not satisfactory for him, he crushes them.  He is not like Goku, who will sometimes hold back for the sake of a good fight.


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## Esano (Oct 12, 2017)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> yea you can tell he takes pleasure in crushing people at the peak of thier strength.
> 
> his difference from the usual DB antagonist is what makes him interesting


Yeah no one in DB wants to fight people at their peak strength XD


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## Dreams of Tommorow (Oct 15, 2017)

does jirens current resistance to time hax change any of the outcomes here


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## Blαck (Oct 15, 2017)

Dreams of Tommorow said:


> does jirens current resistance to time hax change any of the outcomes here


Depends on the user


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## The Mathemagician (Oct 15, 2017)

I lol'd at how they said it. "Jiren possesses power that transcends time." "What in the world is he?!"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Reznor (Oct 15, 2017)

Goku broke out of Time Hax too, this is just much more clear cut resistance to time hax


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## Comic fan 101 (Oct 21, 2017)

Explain How Jiren is beating Current Juggs who stated he had power to kill even Cyttorak


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## B Rabbit (Oct 21, 2017)

Since when do all characters have to be this deep emotional, complex character in order to be a good character.

Jiren was created to be one goal. To be a walking talking wall for Goku to overcome. He's done a good job so far. 

He doesn't really need to have a personality. Because honestly....if the tournament never happened, Jiren never would have gave a rats ass about Goku.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Divell (Oct 21, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> Since when do all characters have to be this deep emotional, complex character in order to be a good character.
> 
> Jiren was created to be one goal. To be a walking talking wall for Goku to overcome. He's done a good job so far.
> 
> He doesn't really need to have a personality. Because honestly....if the tournament never happened, Jiren never would have gave a rats ass about Goku.


It adds realism.


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## B Rabbit (Oct 21, 2017)

To a bunch of aliens fighting in a universal tournament thrown together by a child like God who has the capacity to destroy a multiverse?

We all know this tournament is just fanservice for fights.


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## Divell (Oct 21, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> To a bunch of aliens fighting in a universal tournament thrown together by a child like God who has the capacity to destroy a multiverse?
> 
> We all know this tournament is just fanservice for fights.


No. To a character that the only thing that we know of, is really strong and believes in absolute justice. It doesn't make him any better than guys like Kenpachi and Madara, where their only purpose is to have cool fights. But at least these other guys are actually believable as characters. Sure, they may have more screen time, but both of their characters were pretty much set in just a couple of manga chapters in. Which usually is 2-3 Anime episodes. 

All Jiren has is cool ass fights and... that's it.


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## kluang (Oct 21, 2017)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Expecting the Jiren vs Saint Seiya thread within the next week



Expecting Jiren vs composite Ryu by the first week of November


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## Toaa (Oct 22, 2017)

Jiren believes in justice?Please


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 23, 2017)

B Rabbit said:


> Since when do all characters have to be this deep emotional, complex character in order to be a good character.
> 
> *Jiren was created to be one goal. To be a walking talking wall for Goku to overcome. He's done a good job so far. *
> 
> He doesn't really need to have a personality. Because honestly....if the tournament never happened, Jiren never would have gave a rats ass about Goku.



And Natsu from FT was created with the goal of being a friendship talking moron. He did a good job at that the whole series. Broly was created with the goal of being a psychotic and insanely strong Saiyan. He did a good job at that. That doesn't make them good characters.


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## Toaa (Oct 23, 2017)

He is also likable just not to you.


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## kluang (Oct 23, 2017)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> And Natsu from FT was created with the goal of being a friendship talking moron. He did a good job at that the whole series. Broly was created with the goal of being a psychotic and insanely strong Saiyan. He did a good job at that. That doesn't make them good characters.



And marrying princess trunks

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Esano (Oct 23, 2017)

kluang said:


> And marrying princess trunks


I think we can all agree Super Kami Guru and TFS Vegeta are much more quality than Jiren.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Divell (Oct 23, 2017)

kluang said:


> And marrying princess trunks


How could he forget the most important part of the character. 

Damn she hot.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Cain1234 (Oct 23, 2017)

Divell said:


> How could he forget the most important part of the character.
> 
> Damn she hot.


There are legit better hentai about Gender bent Trunks than this. But it ain't bad.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Divell (Oct 23, 2017)

Cain1234 said:


> There are legit better hentai about Gender bent Trunks than this. But it ain't bad.


It ain't mine. I would have drawn him with bigger tits.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kurou (Oct 23, 2017)

@Nighty the Mighty 


End this thread pls

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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