# Marco vs King



## Captain Altintop (Nov 7, 2021)

Since there are some "experts" like @Oda Report who claim that King would own Marco in 1v1, I really want to see the overall votings here.

This is a shit thread since 99,99% Marco is above King, but let's see.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Kamisori (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco straight up overpowered both King and Queen in the beginning of their fight and made them bleed. Big Mom also said that she doesn't have enough soul weapons to spare with him. Portrayal is clear. King beat Marco alone _after_ tag teaming on him. Only people saying King is stronger are some Zoro fans.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 13 | Optimistic 1


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## convict (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco extreme difficulty to put down King who is clearly an insane tank.

Can change depending on how Zoro vs. King plays out and he receives more hype or unexpected powers he was holding back then.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Neutral 1 | Optimistic 1


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## trance (Nov 7, 2021)

marco after a great fight

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco already showed he’s superior to King when he was overpowering him and Queen at the same time for a while. Marco also has better feats against Top tiers then King. Marco is the strongest Yonko commander. He beats King with high diff.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Disagree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Nov 7, 2021)

YonkoDrippy said:


> Marco already showed he’s superior to King when he was overpowering him and Queen at the same time for a while. Marco also has better feats against Top tiers then King. Marco is the strongest Yonko commander. He beats King with high diff.




Can't find a better explanation. Thanks bro! 

I would say high-ish diff. too. Definitely not extreme.

You think Marco ~ Zoro > King or Marco > Zoro > King ? I dunno.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco's more important so he wins and in a great fight

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Freechoice (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco wins

Ignore @Oda Report

He's not respected around here

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 7, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> Marco wins
> 
> Ignore @Oda Report
> 
> *He's not respected around here*


Prove it

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## YonkoDrippy (Nov 7, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Can't find a better explanation. Thanks bro!
> 
> I would say high-ish diff. too. Definitely not extreme.
> 
> You think Marco ~ Zoro > King or Marco > Zoro > King ? I dunno.


I think Marco > Zoro > King. Marco is the strongest YC1 Lvl character

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Captain Altintop (Nov 7, 2021)

Garou said:


> Marco straight up overpowered both King and Queen in the beginning of their fight and made them bleed. Big Mom also said that she doesn't have enoughsoul weapons to spare with him. Portrayal is clear. King beat Marco alone _after_ tag teaming on him. Only people saying King is stronger are some Zoro fans.


Agree !


This is like people saying that Base Fuhrer Ugly > Tatsumaki

Reactions: Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## LaniDani (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco extreme diff.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Freechoice (Nov 7, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Prove it


You prove it, I'm too lazy

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Eustathios (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco obviously, but it would a difficult fight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 7, 2021)

Freechoice said:


> You prove it, I'm too lazy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Incognitos (Nov 7, 2021)

Marco high diff, king is more tanky but I think Marcos attack power is better as his mobility and endurance. It's a solid high diff fight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 8, 2021)

Marco chokehold both King & Queen in a 2v1 fight . So, in a 1v1 , I can't imagine what will happen to king

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## OG sama (Nov 8, 2021)

Regardless of what King pulls out in his battle against Zoro the portrayal has been made pretty clear, Marco was overpowering both King and Queen in a 2v1 effort.

There’s no way this was drawn so people could get the impression that King would beat Marco in a 1v1 fight with no prior backup.

Marco wins high-extreme diff, Marcos got feats on King as well as Admirals and a Yonko, whereas all King can say is that he managed to beat Marco after Marco was already exhausted and even more exhausted after fighting two Top commanders in a 2v1 effort. Marcos also got a superior version of the exact same DF.

It’s obvious who wins this fight, it won’t be easy for Marco but he pulls out the win eventually, Kings race and fire abilities make this fight a lot harder though, but Marcos literally the superior bird. King can’t say that he’s going to have the flight or mobility advantage in this battle, the defensive advantage, nothing.

He won’t have Queen here either to share the bulk of the damage with either. He’s going to get ragdolled around at speeds he can’t react to and eventually he’s going to lose, he’s going to tank a lot but he’s going to be taking real damage whereas Marcos stamina is only effected and he can still just dodge hits.

The winner is clear.

Reactions: Agree 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Captain Altintop (Nov 8, 2021)

I only agree with King being the strongest YC1 overall if he's going to look like this:

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 2


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## ShadoLord (Nov 8, 2021)

It's most likely King. He has shown better shit than Marco anyways along with a higher bounty reveal and more plot relevant as the last God on the redline. 

Marco's offensive power really hinders him here and his best effort couldn't even break King's mask lmao.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Kroczilla (Nov 8, 2021)

Marco takes this with high diff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Nov 8, 2021)

Still Marco and King scaling to Zoro doesn't really change that. Marco was still dominating 1v2 till he got tired.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 8, 2021)

King wins.

Bigger bounty + hype from his race.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Nov 9, 2021)

Marco around very high or extreme. King has yet to show more vs Zoro,but I doubt anything would change the outcome. Unless King has something like awakening or aCoC which he was holding back vs Marco.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Amol (Nov 9, 2021)

Marco wins.
We have already seen the fight.
King didn't overpower Marco even a single time despite having Queen with him. Marco was also also healing thousands of fodders at the same time. King and Queen had to tire him out. They never managed to outright overpower him.

Portrayal is very very obvious. 
King should try fighting Marco and Jozu together. He won't be doing any attacking there.

King getting any votes is due to sheer bias of Zoro stans. Feats and portrayal doesn't support it.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## oiety (Nov 9, 2021)

Marco without a doubt.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 13, 2021)

I haven't forgotten about you King haters, I hear you stay here I need you I breath you like air. 

Run up the votes I need alot more hogs for this slaughter

Heart Over Blade
DeVision
Lord Stark
Captain Altintop
Velocity
Corax
Empathy
Serenity
Van Basten
Freechoice
Mihawk
Silver
Quipchaque
Conquistador
Mylesime
Mr. Good vibes
Kinjin
Beast
Daisuke Jigen
Amol
xenos5
Maruo
Lord Azrael
oiety
Ezekjuninor
Hoarse
Kroczilla
o0Shinthi0o
YonkoDrippy
Nikseng
deltaniner
Klarionan
GiantForehead
GreenEggsAHam
Eustathios
LaniDani
TheNirou
Garou
devil's bride
Incognitos
Here little piggy piggies.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Perrin (Nov 13, 2021)

Tricky to say.
I’ll see what Marco can do with his CoC and awakening before passing comment.


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## Van Basten (Nov 13, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> I haven't forgotten about you King haters, I hear you stay here I need you I breath you like air.
> 
> Run up the votes I need alot more hogs for this slaughter
> 
> ...


I have yet to see anyone hate on King on this forum.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Oda Report (Nov 13, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> I have yet to see anyone hate on King on this forum.



Then you ain't been outside.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Onyx Emperor (Nov 14, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> King would own Marco in 1v1


This because Marco looks completely outclassed on manga pages, blame Oda, not the community.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Perrin (Nov 14, 2021)

Marco is kind of the Jack of YC1.
Marco vs Ray (anime) - outclassed
Marco vs kizaru - stalled
Marco vs akainu - stalled 
Marco vs Teach - outclassed
Marco vs Pero (anime) - stalemate
Marco vs Big Mom - outclassed
Marco vs King & Queen - stalled

Give the man one solid win Oda!

Reactions: GODA 2 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Beast (Nov 14, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> I haven't forgotten about you King haters, I hear you stay here I need you I breath you like air.
> 
> Run up the votes I need alot more hogs for this slaughter
> 
> ...


Put my name on it too.

Marco slaps King 10/10x

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mercurial (Nov 14, 2021)

King >= Marco >= Katakuri

- Oda had King have a greater bounty than Marco (in spite of Kaido having a lower bounty than Whitebeard).

- Oda had both King and Marco having the same feat, stomping back the Big Mom Pirates' ship; but while Marco needed far more effort (used Hybrid Form and a serious named move of his best ones) and attacked a ship where there wasn't Big Mom, King was definitely more impressive as he did the same on a ship with Big Mom on it and merely used Animal Form and a no named attack.

- Oda is making King a serious and challenging opponent for a Zoro who already proved to be much stronger than how Luffy was when Katakuri stated that he was his equal. And Marco is not that stronger than Katakuri.

- Oda had serious Marco fight very well against holding back King + Queen.
That's very good, but when Marco and King remained alone by themselves, in 1 vs 1 (as from chapter 1015 Queen went fighting with Sanji), King stomped Marco. Sure, Marco was already tired from before; but King ended completely unscathed, he basically low diffed him. So, ok, if Marco wasn't tired he would do much better; but it seems hard to think that things would change from a low diff loss to a win.

So it seems logical to think that both are in the same tier, but King is stronger than Marco.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 4 | Optimistic 3


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## Perrin (Nov 14, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> King >= Marco >= Katakuri
> 
> - Oda had King have a greater bounty than Marco (in spite of Kaido having a lower bounty than Whitebeard).
> 
> ...


Disagree or disrespect this post but she makes a clear well structured argument so think twice.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mercurial (Nov 14, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Disagree or disrespect this post but she makes a clear well structured argument so think twice.


No, people just can't even argue because they are biased against King as a result of their bias against Zoro.
I'd like to see what I addressed in my post that is false or different compared to reality.

Then again, if people think that a tired stronger character would be LOW DIFFED by a weaker character with the latter coming UNSCATHED, it's ok.
Yet looking at the manga it's hard to believe to something like this.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Beast (Nov 14, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> King >= Marco >= Katakuri
> 
> - Oda had King have a greater bounty than Marco (in spite of Kaido having a lower bounty than Whitebeard).
> 
> ...


And we know how much more ruthless King and the beast pirates are. Marco is the opposite of King in terms of danger to the people. So yeah, not running around here, not that bounty actually means much.

Stop lying. They used the same attack… literally a flaming kick, go see the anime if you have troubles looking at pictures. Marco did not use a ‘serous’ attack. You got to half stupid if you think a wooden boat is taking hits from YC1. I think people should stop this named attack business… Marco did pretty much the same thing he did in MF but Oda decided to add a name, even him blocking attacks got a name now. So stop this Bud. They both wanted to kick the boat. Down the water fall… literally both accomplished the same thing, you got to be extra stupid to think there is a difference between the two and you can keep saying Hybrid Marco… I’m still waiting for hybrid Marco since you want to make things up.

Where is it that Marco is nigh equal to Kata? Where did you get that?

holding back? As they got smacked around and could stop anyone while facing Marco? Yeah, I think not. If king by himself is stronger… why was him AND Queen getting smacked around by marco alone? They wanted to stop Zoro… why couldn’t they? They wanted to control the live floor, why couldn’t they?

Reactions: Funny 5 | Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 14, 2021)

Funny how the people who voted for king are also hardcore zoro fans

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Perrin (Nov 14, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Funny how the people who voted for king are also hardcore zoro fans


Its the LZ Paradox.
Assumption: Luffy and Zoro are similar strength.
Portrayal: Luffy is struggling against a Yonkou, Zoro is struggling against a YC1.
History: Luffy surpassed YC1 >100 chapters ago.
Conclusion: King must be above YC1 level.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Kroczilla (Nov 14, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> Oda had King have a greater bounty than Marco (in spite of Kaido having a lower bounty than Whitebeard).


So you think Queen >= Marco as well?


Mercurial said:


> Oda had both King and Marco having the same feat, stomping back the Big Mom Pirates' ship; but while Marco needed far more effort (used Hybrid Form and a serious named move of his best ones) and attacked a ship where there wasn't Big Mom, King was definitely more impressive as he did the same on a ship with Big Mom on it and merely used Animal Form and a no named attack.


Kicking a wooden ship off a waterfall is not a feat worth bragging about. It hasn't been one since Pretimeskip.


Mercurial said:


> Oda is making King a serious and challenging opponent for a Zoro who already proved to be much stronger than how Luffy was when Katakuri stated that he was his equal. And Marco is not that stronger than Katakuri.


How exactly did Zoro prove to be far stronger than WCI Luffy? Also what makes you think Marco is "not that stronger than Katakuri"?


Mercurial said:


> That's very good, but when Marco and King remained alone by themselves, in 1 vs 1 (as from chapter 1015 Queen went fighting with Sanji), King stomped Marco. Sure, Marco was already tired from before; but King ended completely unscathed, he basically low diffed him. So, ok, if Marco wasn't tired he would do much better; but it seems hard to think that things would change from a low diff loss to a win.


Luffy also got low diffed by the enraged army when he got exhausted. But no one in their right minds would try to argue that Enraged army > Luffy. Not to mention Marco was also healing the entire floor.


Mercurial said:


> So it seems logical to think that both are in the same tier, but King is stronger than Marco


Head canon nonsense.

Reactions: Agree 6 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Canute87 (Nov 15, 2021)

Marco was fighting both king and queen while simultaneously using his powers to heal the alliance. So he's clearly capable of fighting king alone.

I'd say Marco wins.  The difficult comes from keeping king down.  So a good chunk of marco's stamina will deplete from trying to hit him as hard as possible.


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## Oda Report (Nov 15, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Marco is kind of the Jack of YC1.
> Marco vs Ray (anime) - outclassed
> Marco vs kizaru - stalled
> Marco vs akainu - stalled
> ...



This man gets it.

Marco is a Pokemon stall wall due to his DF insane regen, Marco also had HELP vs King and Queen. it got to the point Queen wasn't even focused on Marco plus Queen's opponents kept switching up all while attacking his own crewmen, being a goofball with Sanji tagging Queen on occasion, and all the fodder who switched sides on King and Queen. Not to mention Sanji was there as help as well results ended up bloody and on the ground.

Marcos play from the get go was to hold King and Queen back aka stall, Marco knew himself he couldn't win. all while King sandbagged and Queen walked away unbothered.

This all happened before King got serious vs a stronger opponent in Zoro. Marco doesn't even have the AP to seriously hurt base King. All this has happened and King hasn't even gotten serious focus against Zoro who is stronger then Marco.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 15, 2021)

Mercurial said:


> No, people just can't even argue because they are biased against King as a result of their bias against Zoro.



This.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Nov 15, 2021)

Oda would have never shown King under the rubble with his buddy if he wanted to portray King as superior. Or both getting restrained at the same time. Or Marco actively protecting the samurai while fighting the two. Or King and his flying fodder squad ganging on Marco while the Scabbards were getting healed. Cmon now, it's not that hard

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 10


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## Oda Report (Nov 15, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Oda would have never shown King under the rubble with his buddy if he wanted to portray King as superior. Or both getting restrained at the same time. Or Marco actively protecting the samurai while fighting the two. Or King and his flying fodder squad ganging on Marco while the Scabbards were getting healed. Cmon now, it's not that hard



Yes all that so Marco can look superior to a pair of fighters who didn't take Marco serious nor any of the help he had (Sanji). What about Marco bloodied on the ground while King is still in a fresh pair of clothes. If Oda wanted Marco to be superior....Marco would have just won, of at least force King into hybrid . . .Anything other then King playing in the sand. 

King pretty much tossed a sandbag at Marco and told him to lift, with that AP you can't even hurt King.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Eustathios (Nov 15, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Yes all that so Marco can look superior to a pair of fighters who didn't take Marco serious


How did they not take him seriously? When was this even remotely implied? They were obviously going easy, that's why King had to make an island wide broadcast for someone to take care of the Scabbards lol. They were just busy playing with Marco.


Oda Report said:


> What about Marco bloodied on the ground while King is still in a fresh pair of clothes. If Oda wanted Marco to be superior....Marco would have just won, of at least force King into hybrid . . .Anything other then King playing in the sand.


Great point. Let's see how this moment is portrayed in the manga.


*Spoiler*: __ 









Just like how they're shown for the _entirety_ of the fight, King and Queen as a _duo_ standing over an-at-his-limits-Marco. At no point does Oda imply individual superiority for King. Furthermore, this chapter highlights how it was Marco the one defending the samurai all along, hence why we get their comments to reinforce this. As I've said many more times, look at the bigger picture, don't get too caught up on insignificant details.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 3


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## Oda Report (Nov 15, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> How did they not take him seriously? When was this even remotely implied?



Sandbagging......Lack of hybrid, King ONLY getting serious against Zoro the hero Marco was stalling for. Marco failing to not only seriously hurt Base King but Marco also didn't hurt the much weaker Queen. Queen being a goofball majority of the time and attacking his own crewmen for the Lulz. etc etc



Eustathios said:


> They were obviously going easy, that's why King had to make an island wide broadcast for someone to take care of the Scabbards lol. They were just busy playing with Marco.



Well Marco is still Marco with a very troublesome DF not just combat wise but the overall healing power. I mean Marco is know for stalling. . .



Eustathios said:


> Great point. Let's see how this moment is portrayed in the manga.


I see Marco on the floor bloodied, and a Sanji taking 5, after seeing a King and Queen going in on the entire floor. 



Eustathios said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How did Marco GET to his limits? King and Queen drove him, not to mention in the scan, That is King and Queen attacking the floor because you know it wasn't just Marco who is in war against them Sanji even got Rolled. . . . .Oda show cased superiority by King sandbagging, it was showcased by Marco failing to seriously hurt either of Queen or King, because at the end of the day his game plan was to stall them. That was Marcos roll. 

 King didn't get serious about anything until a more powerful foe in Zoro broke his mask and forced out that hybrid.



Eustathios said:


> Furthermore, this chapter highlights how it was Marco the one defending the samurai all along, hence why we get their comments to reinforce this. As I've said many more times, look at the bigger picture, don't get too caught up on insignificant details.



You are missing the large picture, my friend. 

King and Queen where fighting the entire floor plus Sanji and Marco, that's the large picture, you are too focused on the cherry picked details, like Marco stalling King and Queen or healing the samurai. Two things Marco can do just as well as Luffy tanks powerful physical blows with his Rubber DF powers. Marco doesn't get cool points for doing whats natural to him. Marco doesn't get a cookie for stalling against 2 foes when those 2 foes had the entire floor go against them and Sanji. 

King vs Zoro hasn't even really got underway and we can clearly see King was SANDBAGGING.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## AmitDS (Nov 15, 2021)

Forget everything, the fact that Marco is WB's YC1 would be more than enough for us to gauge that he would never be inferior to Katakuri & King.

Then add in him holding off both King and Queen in their human and zoan forms while he himself was in both forms, him being called the strongest FM in the DBs, him holding off admirals (stated to be fighting them evenly) & Big Mom wanking him as too good for the alliance, and it's really clear.

It also doesn't help that Marco seemingly can cancel out fire, which is King's main ability, with his phoenix fire and he can also regenerate which would come in handy against anyone, especially someone on or below his level/someone as brutal as Kaido's top commander (known for torture).

If he were to fight King 1 vs 1 I'd say Marco wins high-extreme diff 100% of the time.

Reactions: Agree 7 | Optimistic 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 16, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> Forget everything, the fact that Marco is WB's YC1 would be more than enough for us to gauge that he would never be inferior to Katakuri & King.



no.

anyone wanna switch sides before we begins?


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## AmitDS (Nov 16, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> no.


Yes. 


Oda Report said:


> anyone wanna switch sides before we begins?

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Yumi Zoro (Nov 17, 2021)

King is stronger, he won their fight.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 17, 2021)

King is overpowering Zoro who is strong enough to fight and wound Yonkos and block Yonko team attacks. That says it all.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Mercurial (Nov 17, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> King is overpowering Zoro who is strong enough to fight and wound Yonkos and block Yonko team attacks. That says it all.


Noooo don't say that! King is shit you are ruining my headcanon yaoi equality with Queen nooo

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Perrin (Nov 17, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> King is overpowering Zoro who is strong enough to fight and wound Yonkos and block Yonko team attacks. That says it all.


When Zoro attacks king with ashura this will become relevant.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 17, 2021)

Perrin said:


> When Zoro attacks king with ashura this will become relevant.



What about when Zoro uses an attack thats stronger then Asura?


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## Perrin (Nov 17, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> What about when Zoro uses an attack thats stronger then Asura?


Then if King endures it similarly to kaido it becomes relevant

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 17, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Then if King endures it similarly to kaido it becomes relevant



But what Kaidou endured wasn't from a Zoro as healthy as the one King is battling?

I mean the guy had broken bones when ashura was preformed, Law is a doctor he knows his stuff, Not to mention Zoro dragon blaze is portrayed as an attack that could of been very devastating if it had landed on kaidou implied by Big Sis reaction to Zoro and his famed enma.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Corax (Nov 18, 2021)

Perrin said:


> Then if King endures it similarly to kaido it becomes relevant


Depends. If King endures even black blade Asura...oh well. But the chance of this is like almost 0. Zoro might finish this fight with black blade Asura (stronger than Asura vs Kaido),but I can't see this happening. Very likely he will use a lesser black blade attack.


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## o0Shinthi0o (Nov 18, 2021)

We all saw Marco 2v1 king & Queen on panel .
So, any omg feat by either Queen / King in next few remaining chapter for King/Queen only farther hype Marco .

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Perrin (Nov 18, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> But what Kaidou endured wasn't from a Zoro as healthy as the one King is battling?
> 
> I mean the guy had broken bones when ashura was preformed, Law is a doctor he knows his stuff, Not to mention Zoro dragon blaze is portrayed as an attack that could of been very devastating if it had landed on kaidou implied by Big Sis reaction to Zoro and his famed enma.


Injuries never seem to have much relevance to named attack potency in shounen.
It’s kind of like a hadouken from ryu at full health does 25 damage and a hadouken from ryu at 1hp does 25 damage


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 18, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> King is overpowering Zoro who is strong enough to fight and wound Yonkos and block Yonko team attacks. That says it all.


When didnt he block a yonkou team attack, i saw him needing to get teleported away and almost die and the attack kept going

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LadyVados (Nov 18, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> When didnt he block a yonkou team attack, i saw him needing to get teleported away and almost die and the attack kept going


So would any Yonko imo

Put Shanks or EOS Blackbeard or WB in there and they'll only be able to block it for a few seconds before dying unless they are teleported and would be in a similar state as Zoro.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## DarkRasengan (Nov 18, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> So would any Yonko imo
> 
> Put Shanks or EOS Blackbeard or WB in there and they'll only be able to block it for a few seconds before dying unless they are teleported and would be in a similar state as Zoro.


They would not be in a similar state to zoro


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## LadyVados (Nov 18, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> They would not be in a similar state to zoro


They definitely would. A combo attack from 2 people as strong as you ? Nobody is surviving that.


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## Ezekjuninor (Nov 18, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> I haven't forgotten about you King haters, I hear you stay here I need you I breath you like air.
> 
> Run up the votes I need alot more hogs for this slaughter
> 
> ...


I was actually one of the big supporters of King even back when Marco was fighting King and Queen 2v1. Just cause I don't think he beats Marco doesn't make me a hater


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## Oda Report (Nov 18, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> I was actually one of the big supporters of King even back when Marco was fighting King and Queen 2v1. Just cause I don't think he beats Marco doesn't make me a hater



Sorry Broski. 

Still hold this L for doubting the King.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 20, 2021)

AmitDS said:


> him being called the strongest FM in the DBs


Where


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## MYJC (Nov 20, 2021)

It could change depending on King's feats in the next few chapters, but for now I'll give Marco the benefit of the doubt high/extreme diff.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 20, 2021)

MYJC said:


> It could change depending on King's feats in the next few chapters, but for now I'll give Marco the benefit of the doubt high/extreme diff.


Unless King specifically states he hasn't been using any new ability he displays, it'll just be more hype for Marco

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Lord Melkor (Nov 20, 2021)

MYJC said:


> It could change depending on King's feats in the next few chapters, but for now I'll give Marco the benefit of the doubt high/extreme diff.



Indeed, King was understimated, but so is Marco. King being a beast makes Marco's feat of fighting both King and Queen at the same time even better.


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## Oda Report (Nov 21, 2021)

MYJC said:


> It could change depending on King's feats in the next few chapters, but for now I'll give Marco the benefit of the doubt high/extreme diff.



least ya honest.



Lord Melkor said:


> Indeed, King was understimated, but so is Marco. King being a beast makes Marco's feat of fighting both King and Queen at the same time even better.



Marco is loved, King was underrated and hated. 

King beats Marco 1v1.

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## OG sama (Nov 21, 2021)

I definitely think King gets lots of hate while Marco is a fan favorite and loved and that sucks for King but it’s also clear to me that Oda seems to put Marco on a level or bit above the other Yonko right hands. Beckman might be the strongest of them all but out of the ones shown Marco has better hype and feats and even feats against King. Marco dominating two commanders in a 2v1 would be extremely misleading if he wasn’t actually stronger than either individually, Oda is a simple man, he isn’t making things over complicated.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 5


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## TheRealSJ (Nov 21, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I definitely think King gets lots of hate while Marco is a fan favorite and loved and that sucks for King but it’s also clear to me that Oda seems to put Marco on a level or bit above the other Yonko right hands. Beckman might be the strongest of them all but out of the ones shown Marco has better hype and feats and even feats against King. Marco dominating two commanders in a 2v1 would be extremely misleading if he wasn’t actually stronger than either individually, Oda is a simple man, he isn’t making things over complicated.


Oda is the *furthest thing *from a simple man in any shounen series but i get your point.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord Melkor (Nov 21, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> least ya honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not know about Marco being so loved, some here ridicule him as being nothing else than meat shield.


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## Oda Report (Nov 21, 2021)

OG sama said:


> I definitely think King gets lots of hate while Marco is a fan favorite and loved and that sucks for King but it’s also clear to me that Oda seems to put Marco on a level or bit above the other Yonko right hands.



Not really, my take on right hands.

Shiryuu > Old Benny > King > Marco > Kata 



OG sama said:


> Beckman might be the strongest of them all but out of the ones shown Marco has better hype and feats and even feats against King. Marco dominating two commanders in a 2v1 would be extremely misleading if he wasn’t actually stronger than either individually, Oda is a simple man, he isn’t making things over complicated.



That's not an honest outlook.

Marco didn't dominating anything, you are trying to celebrate Marco as above king when King is the one who walked away unbothered by Marco and lets all not forget King never went hybrid you would have a point if King was forced to go hybrid. No one has pushed King, even Zoro who is stronger then marco is getting trolled and bodied.

Marco couldn't damage King in base or the weaker Queen. Marco loses to King in a 1v1.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 21, 2021)

Lord Melkor said:


> I do not know about Marco being so loved, some here ridicule him as being nothing else than meat shield.



I see it more as a pokemon stall wall type of thing.

Marco is a chill character with a powerful defensive type df power.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Baroxio (Nov 22, 2021)

King = Skarmory w/ Leftovers
Marco = Chansey w/ Eviolite

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Nov 22, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> Since there are some "experts" like @Oda Report who claim that King would own Marco in 1v1, I really want to see the overall votings here.





Captain Altintop said:


> This is a shit thread since 99,99% Marco is above King, but let's see.


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## Ren. (Nov 22, 2021)

DarkRasengan said:


> Funny how the people who voted for king are also hardcore zoro fans


No shit.



Eustathios said:


> Oda would have never shown King under the rubble with his buddy if he wanted to portray King as superior. Or both getting restrained at the same time. Or Marco actively protecting the samurai while fighting the two. Or King and his flying fodder squad ganging on Marco while the Scabbards were getting healed. Cmon now, it's not that hard


Are you a Zoro hater now?


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## Eustathios (Nov 22, 2021)

Ren. said:


> No shit.
> 
> 
> *Are you a Zoro hater now?*


You never know here. For some one day you're part of the legion, another day they say you're hating

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Klarionan (Nov 22, 2021)

Still Marco, King's newfound Zoro-powered wank didn't change that

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Draco Bolton (Nov 22, 2021)

Draw


Credit to Marco for protecting (at the same time) chickenbros from King

However he didn't defeated King despite the fact he dominated the fight (+the fact King was also a bit passive)

Reactions: Funny 3


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## LadyVados (Nov 22, 2021)

Ren. said:


>


All that for a drop of blood ?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 3


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## Oda Report (Nov 22, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> Oda is the *furthest thing *from a simple man in any shounen series but i get your point.



Nah this is pretty simple, its why King is setting fanmade terms like YC1 and bias list upside down and on fire as each chapter moves forward.

Free.


Ren. said:


>



This has been debunked countless times fanboys. 

Thats all Marco can muster he isn't putting down King, period.

Spam the same images and ignore the context of battle and
the story all yall want.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 22, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> All that for a drop of blood ?



Yeah bro Marco is POWERFUL bro ya see them drops of blood BRO????


DO Ya @Ren spamed it like 1000000 times a day to damage control because MAH ZOROR HATE> ACTUAL CANON BRO.

BRO @Klarionan is spamming reactions BRO yYous gonna be reacted on ya. BRO

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Yeah bro Marco is POWERFUL bro ya see them drops of blood BRO????
> 
> 
> DO Ya @Ren spamed it like 1000000 times a day to damage control because MAH ZOROR HATE> ACTUAL CANON BRO.
> ...


BRO

Reactions: Funny 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

King extreme diffs Marco.

Higher bounty, and Marco using a named attack + unnamed attack and only managing a drop of blood is kinda sad. Marco does not have the AP needed to defeat King.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> King extreme diffs Marco.
> 
> Higher bounty, and Marco using a named attack + unnamed attack and only managing a drop of blood is kinda sad. Marco does not have the AP needed to defeat King.


you can say as many times as you want to, still won't make it true

Reactions: Agree 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> you can say as many times as you want to, still won't make it true



everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> King extreme diffs Marco.
> 
> Higher bounty, and Marco using a named attack + unnamed attack and only managing a drop of blood is kinda sad. Marco does not have the AP needed to defeat King.



No answer for Hybrid.

I remember back when WE all was hyped to see Kaidou's hybrid because we knew that once it was showcased stuff will hit
the fan, and it did. Yet they guys on Marco's side ignore the fact that king didn't use hybrid at all, unlike Queen whos hybrid Marco couldn't really do any lasting damage on. Hats off to Maco to push Queen to hybrid tho.  Respects.

In the same Light I think No EMo Sanji will make short work of Queen and also be stronger then marco.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> No answer for Hybrid.
> 
> I remember back when WE all was hyped to see Kaidou's hybrid because we knew that once it was showcased stuff will hit
> the fan, and it did. Yet they guys on Marco's side ignore the fact that king didn't use hybrid at all, unlike Queen whos hybrid Marco couldn't really do any lasting damage on. Hats off to Maco to push Queen to hybrid tho.  Respects.
> ...



i thought it was sanji that pushed queen to hybrid


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## Oda Report (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> i thought it was sanji that pushed queen to hybrid


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> everyone is entitled to their own opinion


Fair enough.

I just think you're points are really weak. The bounty argument is easy to tear apart when we know Kid's was higher than Luffy's in Sabaody. Shanks' is lower than the other Emperors'. I don't remember King getting the upperhand on Marco without Queen's help, where Marco was doing work on both in a 2v1.

But alas, I know, at the end of the day, your recent King wank is no more than Zoro wank in disguise.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I just think you're points are really weak. The bounty argument is easy to tear apart when we know Kid's was higher than Luffy's in Sabaody. Shanks' is lower than the other Emperors'. I don't remember King getting the upperhand on Marco without Queen's help, where Marco was doing work on both in a 2v1.
> 
> But alas, I know, at the end of the day, your recent King wank is no more than Zoro wank in disguise.



im glad you brought up kidd's bounty. notice how both kidd and killer have a higher bounty than luffy and zoro pre-timeskip? it makes sense that killer also has a higher bounty than zoro since kidd has a higher bounty than luffy

meawhile whitebeard has a bounty quite a bit higher than kaido's, one would logically expect that marco's bounty would be higher than king's bounty. but strangely it isn't

 


also you're the one who keeps ignoring that marco used a named attack and also used an unnammed attack and only made a droplet of blood. you don't think thats a bad showing?

 



what does zoro have to do with this? i would have said marco is stronger if his combo attack on king did more damage and his bounty was higher

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Lord Stark (Nov 22, 2021)

Marco fought King & Queen at the same time where as their matches this arc Sanji & Zoro were immediately overwhelmed by fighting both at once. 

Pretty clear Marco is superior to the four.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> im glad you brought up kidd's bounty. notice how both kidd and killer have a higher bounty than luffy and zoro pre-timeskip? it makes sense that killer also has a higher bounty than zoro since kidd has a higher bounty than luffy


Your point? The Kid pirates were more brutal than the Strawhats that's why they had higher bounties. The same goes for King and Marco.


A Optimistic said:


> meawhile whitebeard has a bounty quite a bit higher than kaido's, one would logically expect that marco's bounty would be higher than king's bounty. but strangely it isn't


Whitebeard is twice Marco's age and was around for decades before Marco was around.


A Optimistic said:


> also you're the one who keeps ignoring that marco used a named attack and also used an unnammed attack and only made a droplet of blood. you don't think thats a bad showing?


I don't see King making Marco spit out blood without Queen's help. Also, the attack that caused the bleeding was not named, it was a rocket kick to the face, but unnamed. Need I remind you that Zoro has yet to make King bleed.


A Optimistic said:


> what does zoro have to do with this? i would have said marco is stronger if his combo attack on king did more damage and his bounty was higher


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Your point? The Kid pirates were more brutal than the Strawhats that's why they had higher bounties. The same goes for King and Marco.



then why doesn't kaido have a higher bounty than whitebeard? you can't use the brutal argument when it doesn't apply to their captains




Shunsuiju said:


> Whitebeard is twice Marco's age and was around for decades before Marco was around.



and the same doesnt apply for kaido? 




Shunsuiju said:


> I don't see King making Marco spit out blood without Queen's help.



why not? you dont think if the air scythe landed on marco and he didn't regenerate from it, that he wouldn't bleed? or a cut from king's sword wouldn't make him bleed?





Shunsuiju said:


> Also, the attack that caused the bleeding was not named, it was a rocket kick to the face, but unnamed.



wasn't it two attacks? the named flame attack and the knee



Shunsuiju said:


> Need I remind you that Zoro has yet to make King bleed.



yes he did, blood is clearly shown. anyways i dont have a problem with you thinking marco is stronger than king. why do you care that i think king is stronger? i said it's extreme difficulty so whats the big deal


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> then why doesn't kaido have a higher bounty than whitebeard? you can't use the brutal argument when it doesn't apply to their captains


Why was Kid's higher than Luffy's?



A Optimistic said:


> why not? you dont think if the air scythe landed on marco and he didn't regenerate from it, that he wouldn't bleed? or a cut from king's sword wouldn't make him bleed?


That's not what I meant.

What I meant was that we didn't see what you're saying. Marco making King bleed in a 2v1 is impressive when King failed to do so on panel without Queen's help.


A Optimistic said:


> wasn't it two attacks? the named flame attack and the knee


Well we can see the result of the flame attack, which I believe King blocked, when he's on his back in the debris before the knee.


A Optimistic said:


> yes he did, blood is clearly shown. anyways i dont have a problem with you thinking marco is stronger than king. why do you care that i think king is stronger? i said it's extreme difficulty so whats the big deal


You can't back it up then?


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Why was Kid's higher than Luffy's?



because he was more brutal than luffy. my point is since whitebeard's bounty was higher than kaido's, then whitebeard's first mate should have a higher bounty than kaido's first mate



Shunsuiju said:


> That's not what I meant.
> 
> What I meant was that we didn't see what you're saying. Marco making King bleed in a 2v1 is impressive when King failed to do so on panel without Queen's help.



how do you make someone bleed if they can regenerate? we saw king slice off a wing and we've seen his lethal attacks against zoro so im confident in his attacks being able to make marco bleed if he gets past his regen



Shunsuiju said:


> Well we can see the result of the flame attack, which I believe King blocked, when he's on his back in the debris before the knee.



i dont think blocked anything? i think the droplet is from the named attack + unnamed attack



Shunsuiju said:


> You can't back it up then?



there isnt enough info to prove king > marco now

but there isn't enough info to prove marco > king either

so its just gut feelings and opinions at this point

hence why i dont mind if anyone thinks marco is stronger

its the marco supporters who have an issue with anyone thinking king is stronger

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ren. (Nov 22, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> fanboys.


Why are you talking about yourself.

Look at the pool and this is vs Zoro practically in a Zoro zone called OL.

In this section we had Luffy vs Zoro and Zoro was close aka most said Zoro wins, think about that, and we have Marco above King in here  by a vast majority.

And he has feats to prove it, King has nothing against Marco.




A Optimistic said:


> its the marco supporters who have an issue with anyone thinking king is stronger


Yeah, this is like me having a problem with Zoro even being stronger or equal to Luffy.

Duh, I read the manga.


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## Ren. (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> everyone is entitled to their own opinion


And anyone can be wrong.

Zkk anyone 



A Optimistic said:


> how do you make someone bleed if they can regenerate? we saw king slice off a wing and we've seen his lethal attacks against zoro so im confident in his attacks being able to make marco bleed if he gets past his regen


You also saw Marco making King bleed while the Kaido scaring Zoro couldn't.


Just because you have the AP ... does not make you stronger ... see Zoro as a prime example.

Also you can damage Marco see Garp ... King is just that much weaker AP wise to even trigger damage if not tired.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Disagree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 22, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> because he was more brutal than luffy. my point is since whitebeard's bounty was higher than kaido's, then whitebeard's first mate should have a higher bounty than kaido's first mate


And I brought up the fact that Whitebeard has been on the seas way longer than his first mate.


A Optimistic said:


> how do you make someone bleed if they can regenerate? we saw king slice off a wing and we've seen his lethal attacks against zoro so im confident in his attacks being able to make marco bleed if he gets past his regen


That's not an argument. Marco's powers are apart of his arsenal.


A Optimistic said:


> i dont think blocked anything? i think the droplet is from the named attack + unnamed attack


Fine, whatever.


A Optimistic said:


> there isnt enough info to prove king > marco now
> 
> but there isn't enough info to prove marco > king either
> 
> ...


Using the "let's wait and see" against me. I've been on King's "let's wait and see" train for as long as I can remember. You're just jumping on the train now bcuz marimo is fighting him.


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## A Optimistic (Nov 22, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> And I brought up the fact that Whitebeard has been on the seas way longer than his first mate.



and so has kaido



Shunsuiju said:


> That's not an argument. Marco's powers are apart of his arsenal.



what do you mean? i assumed you were asking what happens if marco gets hit after his regen ends

of course if king hits marco before his regen ends, then nothing happens to marco. that seems obvious, so why ask that?




Shunsuiju said:


> Fine, whatever.
> 
> Using the "let's wait and see" against me. I've been on King's "let's wait and see" train for as long as I can remember.



im not using anything against you. for the 10th time, i do not care if you think marco is stronger than king. what are you not getting about that? its you who cares that i think king is stronger. you're the one who started this discussion, not me. if you posted that marco low diffs king, i wouldn't react to that






Shunsuiju said:


> You're just jumping on the train now bcuz marimo is fighting him.



that's not true

i knew zoro was fighting king since king was introduced alongside queen. remember king was shown with a sword? so i already knew zoro vs king was happening. i still thought marco = king at the time due to both of them doing the exact same feat at the waterfall.

then i saw marco only make a droplet of blood after a named + unnamed attack and i honestly found that disappointed. then his bounty got revealed to be lower than king's which was also disappointing.

zoro has nothing to do with this. if i wanted to wank zoro, i wouldn't say that king needs extreme diffs marco. i would say king mid diffs marco. not everything revolves around zoro.


maybe you're projecting. maybe you're the one inlove with marco and always feel the need to defend his tier list placement.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 22, 2021)

Ren. said:


> Why are you talking about yourself.



No U.



Ren. said:


> Look at the pool and this is vs Zoro practically in a Zoro zone called OL.



*Zoro zoro Zoro gibberish

Get some help Ren.
.


Ren. said:


> In this section we had Luffy vs Zoro and Zoro was close aka most said Zoro wins, think about that, and we have Marco above King in here  by a vast majority.



Thanks for useless info Ive never cared for.



Ren. said:


> And he has feats to prove it, King has nothing against Marco.



Marco didn't dish out any lasting damage on either king (base) or the weaker Hybrid Queen either, We don't even need to speak on king hybrid, Marco wasn't strong enough to get king to whip it out.   

Put me back on ignore @Ren. this is 2 easy.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Corax (Nov 23, 2021)

With new dura feats revealed only regen keeps Marco in this fight. All is decided by how much stamina each of them have. In my opinion this is super close. However if King also has regen due to Lunarian DNA or something the winner is clear.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> and so has kaido


You mean compared to King? I think he's 47 and Kaido is in his 50s.


A Optimistic said:


> what do you mean? i assumed you were asking what happens if marco gets hit after his regen ends
> 
> of course if king hits marco before his regen ends, then nothing happens to marco. that seems obvious, so why ask that?


I don't know why you're discrediting the damage Marco did to King when King never did anything to Marco without outside interference.


A Optimistic said:


> im not using anything against you. for the 10th time, i do not care if you think marco is stronger than king. what are you not getting about that? its you who cares that i think king is stronger. you're the one who started this discussion, not me. if you posted that marco low diffs king, i wouldn't react to that


Yeah, I get it. If someone says Aokiji is stronger than Kizaru or Fujitora is stronger than Big Mom. Frankly, I don't care. However, If their reasoning is stupid, I'm going to poke holes in it. What's the point if we can't do that? You've posted that King is stronger than Marco multiple times in this thread, yet when I start questioning your reasoning, you get defensive about having your own opinion.


A Optimistic said:


> that's not true
> 
> i knew zoro was fighting king since king was introduced alongside queen. remember king was shown with a sword? so i already knew zoro vs king was happening. i still thought marco = king at the time due to both of them doing the exact same feat at the waterfall.


I guess I'll just have to take your word for it. I wasn't posting here when King was revealed. I do know that a lot of people were hating on King before his fight was revealed against Zoro though.


A Optimistic said:


> then i saw marco only make a droplet of blood after a named + unnamed attack and i honestly found that disappointed. then his bounty got revealed to be lower than king's which was also disappointing.
> 
> zoro has nothing to do with this. if i wanted to wank zoro, i wouldn't say that king needs extreme diffs marco. i would say king mid diffs marco. not everything revolves around zoro.
> 
> ...


I'll drop the Zoro accusation out of respect, but I am talking to the biggest supporter of ZKK on this forum, so excuse me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 23, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> You mean compared to King? I think he's 47 and Kaido is in his 50s.



my point is that both kaido and whitebeard were part of rocks crew so there was a time where they were both without king/marco. we dont know when whitebeard met marco after rocks and we dont know when kaido met king after rocks.



Shunsuiju said:


> I don't know why you're discrediting the damage Marco did to King when King never did anything to Marco without outside interference.



i'm not discrediting it, he did damage, it was just lower then I expected. I just had higher expectations from Marco.



Shunsuiju said:


> Yeah, I get it. If someone says Aokiji is stronger than Kizaru or Fujitora is stronger than Big Mom. Frankly, I don't care. However, If their reasoning is stupid, I'm going to poke holes in it. What's the point if we can't do that? You've posted that King is stronger than Marco multiple times in this thread, yet when I start questioning your reasoning, you get defensive about having your own opinion.



thats fine




Shunsuiju said:


> I guess I'll just have to take your word for it. I wasn't posting here when King was revealed. I do know that a lot of people were hating on King before his fight was revealed against Zoro though.



i feel like you think i have king extreme diffing marco firmly set in stone and i won't budge on that if we get new info. that isn't true. if king got an awful ending to his fight with zoro, then i'd probably put marco above him. if marco did some wild shit before the arc ends, id probably put him above king.

nothing is set in stone until the arc ends 

at this present moment, i just like what i see from king a bit more. but it's very possible it could change soon, oda has a track record of treating villains like shit, look at how jack was defeated after all.




Shunsuiju said:


> I'll drop the Zoro accusation out of respect, but I am talking to the biggest supporter of ZKK on this forum, so excuse me.



i love the zkk theory, that's true. but the thing is, zkk isn't power related at all. it doesn't matter much to me whether zoro is stronger than king or marco tbh. i believe in zkk because he's related to a samurai that decapitated a dragon over the capital, he now has oden's sword, and because kaido can't be stopped/imprisoned unless he's killed as stated in his intro box. zoro's powerlevel isn't relevant to any of that. jack could get up next chapter and beat up zoro and zoro could fall down below yc3 in the tier lists and I'd still beileve in zkk.

there's no agenda with king on my end, i just think he looks a tiny bit more impressive now. but there's a very large possibility that marco can look more impressive than king depending on how zoro's fight with king ends. nothing is set in stone in my books.


hope that explains my stance a little clearer


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## TheRealSJ (Nov 23, 2021)

The way I see it, the strength of yonko first mates compared to each other is reflective of the strength of the yonko compared to each other.

For example, If *Old Whitebeard>=Kaido>=Big Mom*
then 
*Marco>=King>=Katakuri*

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Nov 23, 2021)

A Optimistic said:


> my point is that both kaido and whitebeard were part of rocks crew so there was a time where they were both without king/marco. we dont know when whitebeard met marco after rocks and we dont know when kaido met king after rocks.


At the end of the day, there's like a 200m difference in bounty between Marco and King, which could be attributed to a million things other than power.


A Optimistic said:


> i'm not discrediting it, he did damage, it was just lower then I expected. I just had higher expectations from Marco.


Yeah I felt the same way when Fujitora got btfo'd by a pre-timeskip move like G3.




A Optimistic said:


> i feel like you think i have king extreme diffing marco firmly set in stone and i won't budge on that if we get new info. that isn't true. if king got an awful ending to his fight with zoro, then i'd probably put marco above him. if marco did some wild shit before the arc ends, id probably put him above king.
> 
> 
> nothing is set in stone until the arc ends
> ...


Yeah it's clearer now. 

I still believe there's more going for Marco. But we would agree that it's splitting hairs between the two. I would put Yamato below both.

thanks for the 50k coins

Reactions: Like 1


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## A Optimistic (Nov 23, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> At the end of the day, there's like a 200m difference in bounty between Marco and King, which could be attributed to a million things other than power.
> 
> Yeah I felt the same way when Fujitora got btfo'd by a pre-timeskip move like G3.
> 
> ...



Damn haha we definitely disagree over Yamato, got her above zoro, Marco, and king

but good chat either way

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## VileNotice (Nov 23, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> Oda would have never shown King under the rubble with his buddy if he wanted to portray King as superior. Or both getting restrained at the same time. Or Marco actively protecting the samurai while fighting the two. Or King and his flying fodder squad ganging on Marco while the Scabbards were getting healed. Cmon now, it's not that hard


This… I thought at first due to the ship feat (and Marco’s lackluster MF offensive feats) the two were equal but Oda went out of his way to make Marco clash with BM and take on King and Queen together. He’s stronger.


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## Klarionan (Nov 23, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Yeah bro Marco is POWERFUL bro ya see them drops of blood BRO????
> 
> 
> DO Ya @Ren spamed it like 1000000 times a day to damage control because MAH ZOROR HATE> ACTUAL CANON BRO.
> ...



BRO why are Zoro fanboys BRO just so delusional BRO?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> The way I see it, the strength of yonko first mates compared to each other is reflective of the strength of the yonko compared to each other.
> 
> For example, If *Old Whitebeard>=Kaido>=Big Mom*
> then
> *Marco>=King>=Katakuri*


It would make not much sense, but looking at how bad Oda is at writing the Yonkos properly, this is probably true.


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## Oda Report (Nov 23, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> BRO why are Zoro fanboys BRO just so delusional BRO?



This is a king vs Marco thread.

It's clear Marco loses and yet you are hey yelling Zoro fanboy gibberish.

Are you a @Ren. Dupe?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ShadoLord (Nov 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> The way I see it, the strength of yonko first mates compared to each other is reflective of the strength of the yonko compared to each other.
> 
> For example, If *Old Whitebeard>=Kaido>=Big Mom*
> then
> *Marco>=King>=Katakuri*


yet King has a higher bounty than Marco when Whitebeard's bounty > Kaido > Big Meme

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 23, 2021)

TheRealSJ said:


> The way I see it, the strength of yonko first mates compared to each other is reflective of the strength of the yonko compared to each other.
> 
> For example, If *Old Whitebeard>=Kaido>=Big Mom*
> then
> *Marco>=King>=Katakuri*



Nah, we can just judge the right hands by personal power.

kings got too many abilities that Marco can't answer, especially when Marco can't put up any lasting damage on King's base. 

King is still sandbagging as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 23, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> This is a king vs Marco thread.
> 
> It's clear Marco loses and yet you are hey yelling Zoro fanboy gibberish.
> 
> Are you a @Ren. Dupe?


- SNIP -

It's clear that Marco still wins, and that Zoro just struggles because was like almost always just overrated.

No.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Nov 23, 2021)

King wins. It is quite dishonest to use that particular encounter seeing as Marco was tired out in the end. Further, King and Queen did not even use their hybrid forms. Marco pretty much went full Zoan and hybrid. Queen went just full Zoan, kind just went full Zoan for a moment, then transformed back to his base.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 23, 2021)

@Zoro 

Your username is Zoro, not very convincing in a Zoro wank thread in disguise, but yeah Kaido gets at times very overrated too, but the same is true for Shanks who has still not much to justify even half of the hype he gets here.


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## ShadoLord (Nov 23, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> Your username is Zoro, not very convincing in a Zoro wank thread in disguise, but yeah Kaido gets at times very overrated too, but the same is true for Shanks who has still not much to justify even half of the hype he gets here.


he defeated Kaido and sent him packing before arriving in marineford unscathed. That's more than enough hype to justify his standing.


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## Klarionan (Nov 23, 2021)

Zoro said:


> he defeated Kaido and sent him packing before arriving in marineford unscathed. That's more than enough hype to justify his standing.


No, that would be the biggest bullshit Oda has ever written, and it makes no sense to assume something as retarded like that a Yonko could defeat another Yonko without even getting injured.


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## ShadoLord (Nov 23, 2021)

Klarionan said:


> No, that would be the biggest bullshit Oda has ever written, and it makes no sense to assume something as retarded like that a Yonko could defeat another Yonko without even getting injured.


Shanks had his whole crew with him while Kaido had King. 

makes perfect sense for Shanks and his buddy to no-diff Kaido.


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## Turrin (Nov 23, 2021)

I don’t even know how this is a debate. The manga is making it obvious that YC2 is close to YC1; this means Marco essentially fought two King level people to a stand still while healing the live floor and also being attacked by other Gifters. Marco is clearly above King individually

Reactions: Winner 4 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 23, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I don’t even know how this is a debate. The manga is making it obvious that YC2 is close to YC1; this means Marco essentially fought two King level people to a stand still while healing the live floor and also being attacked by other Gifters. Marco is clearly above King individually



Brings up the story then proceeds to talk about fanon made terms to shoe horn King to queen.

King is clearly above Queen the fact that Queens hybrid has been on full display while King has been running a muck in base or full Zoan.

We only got to see Kings hybrid for a glimpse and it knocked zoro to the other side of onigashima no question.

As for Marco vs king....I wish Marco could put up some lasting damage vs King's base.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## Turrin (Nov 24, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> Brings up the story then proceeds to talk about fanon made terms to shoe horn King to queen.
> 
> King is clearly above Queen the fact that Queens hybrid has been on full display while King has been running a muck in base or full Zoan.
> 
> ...


All this shows is that Sanji and Zoro both can’t beat Hybrid Queen or King, at this point, and will need to leverage their power ups to do so. That puts Queen and King as close to equal again.

I wish Queen + King + Gifters, could have done lasting damage to Marco, who was also healing the live floor


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## Ren. (Nov 24, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> wasting brain cells isn't worth it,


At least you got that right ... you are exactly that for most.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Ren. (Nov 24, 2021)

I would want to say that those 15 are all Z boys and I am shocked ... but I would lie.

We are missing some of them.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Oda Report (Nov 24, 2021)

More L's incoming.

@Ren. stay quoting me, yet claims I'm on his ignore list and STILL adds nothing to the thread now he looking for the popular opinion vote as his argument.  The mental breakdown this week was too much for him to contend with seeing how King is putting on a clinic.



Turrin said:


> All this shows is that Sanji and Zoro both can’t beat Hybrid Queen or King, at this point, and will need to leverage their power ups to do so. That puts Queen and King as close to equal again.
> 
> I wish Queen + King + Gifters, could have done lasting damage to Marco, who was also healing the live floor



That's not the context of the battle, it was King and Queen who put Marco down no issues, it was Marco stalling for the next gen because he couldn't put any lasting damage on either of the Beast Pirates which was displayed for us as readers. King and Queen solo'ed the entire floor while trolling and sandbagging Sanji included. Marco loses to king in a 1v1, Marco lacks AP and the might to force King to even take him serious. Marco has no answer for Hybrid or to even damage Kings full Zoan.

Hell Marcos best can only draw a few drops of blood while King blocks with his face in base.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Turrin (Nov 24, 2021)

Oda Report said:


> More L's incoming.
> 
> @Ren. stay quoting me, yet claims I'm on his ignore list and STILL adds nothing to the thread now he looking for the popular opinion vote as his argument.  The mental breakdown this week was too much for him to contend with seeing how King is putting on a clinic.
> 
> ...


The context was Marco couldn’t beat Queen + King + Gifters, alone while healing the live floor, this in no way means he can’t beat King 1v1, and the fact that he was able to even hold out given those odds would suggest the opposite.

Come back to me when King is able to take on 2 Marcos + Gifters, while also supporting an army at the same time with his DF.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Baroxio (Nov 24, 2021)

I don't know why people are claiming that Marco's AP is low, when so far, he's the ONLY person to actually damage both King and Queen. Marco made both of them bleed, something both Zoro and Sanji were completely unable to do until recently. Would Zoro and Sanji also be classified as having low AP before their current/upcoming powerups? King and Queen have freakish durability - that's literally their MO. It doesn't mean that Marco's AP is bad, ESPECIALLY when he DOES in fact inflict damage.

More importantly, Marco handled both King and Queen simultaneously. And yet, the moment Zoro and Sanji start battling the two they're forced to block for one another (Zoro blocks King's attack at Sanji, says "You owe me one" before Queen attacks Zoro while he's blocking, only for Sanji to block Queen's attack, saying "Now we're even"). In other words, it's immediately shown to us that Zoro and Sanji would each be wrecked if they attempted to do what Marco did and solo both King and Queen simultaneously. This straight up puts Marco on a substantially greater tier than anyone in this conflict, since he's able to do what neither Zoro or Sanji could alone: take on both King and Queen at once.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Oda Report (Nov 24, 2021)

Turrin said:


> The context was Marco couldn’t beat Queen + King + Gifters, alone while healing the live floor, this in no way means he can’t beat King 1v1, and the fact that he was able to even hold out given those odds would suggest the opposite.
> 
> Come back to me when King is able to take on 2 Marcos + Gifters, while also supporting an army at the same time with his DF.



I can tell you missed the full context of the battle because I just told you the entire floor was turned against the beast duo and Marco had sanji's help while King stayed sandbagging, and queen was trolling attackin his own men. Marco even told the beast duo, they are up against the new generation.....Marco didn't land any lasting damage on king or queen because he couldn't truly damage either.

His plan was to stall until there respected foes appearded, sanji and zoro.

Marco loses, he lacks the AP, and can't damage King in other forms.



Baroxio said:


> I don't know why people are claiming that Marco's AP is low, when so far, he's the ONLY person to actually damage both King and Queen. Marco made both of them bleed,



All the damage king took up until this point wasn't anything, to slow him down.
That's the sad thing about all this.





Baroxio said:


> More importantly, Marco handled both King and Queen simultaneously. And yet, the moment Zoro and Sanji start battling the two they're forced to block for one another (Zoro blocks King's attack at Sanji, says "You owe me one" before Queen attacks Zoro while he's blocking, only for Sanji to block Queen's attack, saying "Now we're even"). In other words, it's immediately shown to us that Zoro and Sanji would each be wrecked if they attempted to do what Marco did and solo both King and Queen simultaneously. This straight up puts Marco on a substantially greater tier than anyone in this conflict, since he's able to do what neither Zoro or Sanji could alone: take on both King and Queen at once.



Stalling for Sanji and Zoro aka the new gen =/= King or the weaker Queen who Marco can't even leave lasting damage.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## Klarionan (Nov 24, 2021)

Zoro said:


> Shanks had his whole crew with him while Kaido had King.
> 
> makes perfect sense for Shanks and his buddy to no-diff Kaido.


In this case it would be not much hype for Shanks, but at best for his crew as a whole, and even that scenario wouldn't make much sense anyway.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Gorilla Cook (Nov 25, 2021)

I think Oda purposely made King a sort of evil version of Marco. They are probably near equals. There were too many outside factors in their fight to decide a winner. They are both just below admiral level. 

This is how I would rank the top commanders on the last several arcs. I'll throw whitebeard commanders in there.

1. Marco / King
2. Jozu / Katakuri
3. Queen / Vista
4. Jack / Cracker / Smoothie / Ace 
6. Doflamingo / Jinbei / Perospero (weakest of the bunch)
5. Snack / Whose Who

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Oda Report (Nov 25, 2021)

No more L's to had out until the next chapter but yall still get these laughs.

Still waiting for that explanation how Marco can put anylasting damage on King base or the weaker Queen hybrid


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