# Third Raikage vs Madara Uchiha (read OP)



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 21, 2013)

Battlefield: Naruto vs Third Raikage
Starting Distance: 30 Meters
Restrictions: *Any Susano'o above V3, Rinnegan Techniques, and Mokuton*
Knowledge: The Raikage has full knowledge of Madara's known abilities from Onoki, Madara has rep about the Raikage

Who wins?


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## Bonly (Feb 21, 2013)

Madara has reacted to A at the last second after jumping into the air dodging Mei's Yoton. With the Sandaime Raikage and A being comparable in speed with the only notable difference being A having his "V2", so Madara can likely react to most of the Sandaime Raikage's attacks. The Sandaime was able to dodge a FRS when he had the sun in his eyes as well as it being only a few inches from his face. The Sandaime went on to dodge the redirected FRS when it was  a few inches from his body again. With said reactions the Sandaime should react to most of Madara's attacks as well.

With the things EMS Madara has shown, nothing in his arsenal is fast enough to land a hit on the Sandaime Raikage as he can dodge Madara's attacks. The only way Madara can get the Sandaime Raikage is if he used one of his huge AoE Katon.

So it comes down to whether or not the Sandaime Raikage can hit Madara with his Yonhon Nukite/Sanbon Nukite/Ippon Nukite before Madara lands a hit with a Katon. This is all under the assumption that you have Kurama being summoned as a restriction that you forgot to put instead of leaving him in.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 21, 2013)

I assume Kurama isn't an 'standard' summon for EMS Madara due to the fact it requires a mind-control genjutsu to follow Madara's orders.


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 21, 2013)

Madara forcefully forged a contract that allowed him to summon the Kyuubi whenever he wanted.

It's definitely his power, since its not something out of the ordinary that required prep. 

Madara did whatever he did to the Kyuubi, and then afterwards could put his hand down and summon the Kyuubi whenever and wherever he pleased. He tries to summon it for fun when he's summoned as an Edo without having done anything special beforehand.

On topic: Madara makes 25 clones and they hold down the Raikage and tear him apart.


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## Thunder (Feb 21, 2013)

The relationship between Kurama and Madara is very similar to relationship between Kabuto and his Edo Tensei. Those resurrected souls may not _want_ to fight for Kabuto, but we still consider them to be part of his power regardless. 

If manipulated the summon then becomes an extension of your body / will. Whether or not the summon likes you isn't relevant at that point. Of course, most characters would prefer to work along side their summons as a true team.


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## Ezekial (Feb 21, 2013)

Madara has already proven quick enough to react to an Onoki/Ei blitz and he easily caught Ei in a genjutsu, Madara wins no diff


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ezekial said:


> Madara has already proven quick enough to react to an Onoki/Ei blitz and he easily caught Ei in a genjutsu, Madara wins no diff


How did he 'react'? He was completely blitzed by that combo and was sent flying across the battlefield _twice_ by it. And how 'easily'? He had to use five Mokuton Susano'o bushins to get A into an genjutsu, and even then it was only because A was _distracted_ by Tsunade. 

And how does Madara win with these restrictions? What in his arsenal can scratch the Sandaime Raikage with his insane durability?


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 21, 2013)

Madara can pull him apart with Susanoo like he did Tsunade. It'd be gruesome but whatever works.


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## eyeknockout (Feb 21, 2013)

third raikage stands and tanks the meteors, susanoo slashes, kyuubi bijuudamas until madara faints from chakra overuse


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 21, 2013)

NothingMeansAnything said:


> Madara can pull him apart with Susanoo like he did Tsunade. It'd be gruesome but whatever works.


Since when is Tsunade in the same durability league as the Third Raikage? IE the person who no-selled the Rasenshuriken, faced the second strongest Biju one on one without any advantages like Madara or Hashirama did and tied?


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## KawaiiKyuubi (Feb 21, 2013)

This all depends on whether or not you think Madara has Amaterasu and/or Tsukuyomi. Both of these will probably be able to put him down, maybe not straight away, but combined with Susano'o/Kyuubi then most likely. 

If he doesn't have them, or if he doesn't have the Kyuubi, I don't think Susano'o is enough to damage him enough to defeat him before he ULTIMATE SP33RZ Madara through his Susano'o armour.


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## ueharakk (Feb 22, 2013)

Madara has no offensive technique strong enough to do serious harm to sandaime raikage when the later has his RnY up.  And with sandaime's FRS dodging speed feats, Madara is not going to be landing a whole lot of hits on him.

Unless he has amaterasu, he is going to eventually lose whether it be from getting outlasted via chakra or getting his susanoo pierced through by 1 finger nukite.  Unless of course, he can genjutsu sandaime into releasing his shroud like he did to Ei, but just look at what was required to get Ei with that: 5 lvl2.9 susanoos and a distraction.


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## Ersa (Feb 22, 2013)

> And how does Madara win with these restrictions? What in his arsenal can scratch the Sandaime Raikage with his insane durability?


SuperSaiyaman 

Why make a thread when you think one side clearly wins? Spite thread much

Madara punches Nukite back into the Raikage with Susanoo, I refuse to believe a full power punch from an EMS Susanoo would not have similar force to a simple Rasengan. With EMS and his feat of reacting to A/Tsunade coming out of nowhere I think he has the reactions and speed to do this. 

If we allow hype he should have Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu as well


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## Mr Vain (Feb 22, 2013)

3rd Raikage, with full knowledge, has the option of outlasting a mortal Madara. 

Not seeing a logical way he's defeated. He already took down and outlasted Gyuki, who is clearly superior to a mortal Madara. 

The only real damaging attack here is Amy, which Madara doesn't have canonically. And with full knowledge, I don't think it's out of mind to think a man who dodges FRS twice in close doesn't have the capacity to avoid Amy. Should he get hit, he simply strikes Madara's Susano, spreading the fires around him. And we all know who's lasting longer against amy.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 22, 2013)

Madara grabs Sandaime with Susano'o eventually, mindfucks him, and then finishes him off.

The Raikage can only attack physically, discounting the Black Lightning hype which we still haven't seen any feats for (from him). That's gonna put him well within the reach of Susano'o, and someone with the Sharingan is going to be able to pick up on how to read his attack pattern pretty quickly. Although it won't strictly be easy, Madara should be able to get a hold of him and end the match.


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## PDQ (Feb 22, 2013)

PS Sword might hurt him, although 1 Finger Nukite might break the sword as well.  Without PS, there's nothing in Madara's arsenal that can really win.  With PS, it'd be about a tie between the two Bijuu powered Shinobi.

Madara doesn't have Gyuuki's knowledge about his scar nor shown the personality to use someone's attack against themself.


NothingMeansAnything said:


> Madara forcefully forged a contract that allowed him to summon the Kyuubi whenever he wanted.
> 
> It's definitely his power, since its not something out of the ordinary that required prep.



He'd have to break it free to use it.  Since the time he lost, it went to Mito, then to Kushina, then to Naruto, with a few hours gap when Obito released it to use it, which only happened due to Kushina's pregnancy.  We've already seen he can't summon it while it's inside someone.  So it's not really his power.
If we're including Madara's prep by forcing Kyuubi into a contract as historical circumstance to be assumed, then you have to include the historical circumstance of the Kyuubi being sealed away such that nobody could summon/control it except in one other instance(Obito's) since Madara last used it.  If this fight doesn't take place during that exact point in time, he can't use it without prep.


> Madara makes 25 clones and they hold down the Raikage and tear him apart.


That's Mokuton.


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## Magician (Feb 22, 2013)

I don't know, Madara could potentially redirect his Nukite like Naruto did, but otherwise he has nothing that can hurt the raikage.

Raikage wins High diff, Madara's not going down without a fight


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## Lawrence777 (Feb 22, 2013)

> He'd have to break it free to use it. Since the time he lost, it went to Mito, then to Kushina, then to Naruto, with a few hours gap when Obito released it to use it, which only happened due to Kushina's pregnancy. We've already seen he can't summon it while it's inside someone. So it's not really his power.
> If we're including Madara's prep by forcing Kyuubi into a contract as historical circumstance to be assumed, then you have to include the historical circumstance of the Kyuubi being sealed away such that nobody could summon/control it except in one other instance(Obito's) since Madara last used it. If this fight doesn't take place during that exact point in time, he can't use it without prep.


I always figure we take the happen stance of the living character. Living Itachi was terminally ill, so he carriers that into each battle.

Likewise living Madara had Kyuubi in life as a summon. He could put his hand down and use Kuchiyose: Kyuubi like a summon. I don't really consider Edo Madara to have Kyuubi as a power, but living madara's power definitely entails him having Kuchiyose : Kyuubi imo.

I completely agree with the second point. Even with 1 susanoo though, Madara will be able to predict the linearity of V1 speed like sasuke did, and trade blows/capture the raikage. 

From there he maybe able to just twist the Raikage's head with Susanoo's strength feats.


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## KyuubiFan (Feb 22, 2013)

Madara should be able to put him in a genjutsu, then finish him off. They both have amazing reflexes, but Madara has huge AoE attacks as well.

I seriously don't know who has more stamina. Tankkage fought against 10000 men for three days, Madara had Kurama under control and Perfect Susano'o up simultaneously for who knows how long.


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## blk (Feb 22, 2013)

PDQ said:


> PS Sword might hurt him, although 1 Finger Nukite might break the sword as well.  Without PS, there's nothing in Madara's arsenal that can really win.  With PS, it'd be about a tie between the two Bijuu powered Shinobi.



Madara certainly loses this match, since the only methods that he has for win are not likely to succeed (the knowledge stipulations make this all more harder for Madara).

But to say that with Perfect Susano'o it would be "about a tie", is just craziness.


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## Language of Life (Feb 22, 2013)

Without the Kyuubi, and PS then madara is pretty much out of options when it comes to hurting Raikagenaut. 

With his Sharingan and Susano'o he wont make it easy but he has no knowledge on how to defeat the Raikage using his own 1 finger Nukite, so he either has to figure it out by himself or keep trying to outlast him with Susano'o which i think is a battle he would lose. 

His last option would be genjutsu but with how much it took to get Ei under a genjutsu i doubt Madara could pull it off on the better of the two Riakage's, at least not before Raikage finds out the best way to beat him considering he knows all of Madara's techniques and about the Sharingan.

Overall i give it to Sandaim high diff.


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## HiroshiSenju (Feb 23, 2013)

This is pretty much pre-prime Madara, then.

I'm sorry, but I have a really hard time believing that Madara Uchiha is going to lose to the 3rd Raikage. Feats or not. Madara probably just genjutsus the Raikage and ends it


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 23, 2013)

HiroshiSenju said:


> This is pretty much pre-prime Madara, then.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I have a really hard time believing that Madara Uchiha is going to lose to the 3rd Raikage. Feats or not. Madara probably just genjutsus the Raikage and ends it


_It took five Susano'o's and Tsunade distracting him to genjutsu the *weaker* of the two Raikage's_, how is Madara, without Mokuton Bushin Susano'o clones gonna do that?


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## Bonly (Feb 23, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> _*It took five Susano'o's and Tsunade distracting him to genjutsu the weaker of the two Raikage's*_*,* how is Madara, without Mokuton Bushin Susano'o clones gonna do that?



1,2,3.

4 out of the 5 Susanoo's did nothing but stand there until A was already caught in a genjutsu, upon which then they went to attack. It took one Susanoo and A being distracted for him to get put under a genjutsu.


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## PDQ (Feb 24, 2013)

blk said:


> But to say that with Perfect Susano'o it would be "about a tie", is just craziness.



Why?  Perfect Susanoo was described as having the power of a Bijuu.  Raikage was said to have the power to fight a Bijuu head to head and even stalemated one.  Therefore, it should be about a tie.


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## blk (Feb 24, 2013)

PDQ said:


> Why?  Perfect Susanoo was described as having the power of a Bijuu.  Raikage was said to have the power to fight a Bijuu head to head and even stalemated one.  Therefore, it should be about a tie.



Perfect Susano'o was said to _have_ the power of a Bijuu, while the Raikage have the power for _possibly compete_ against a Bijuu.

And by feats, the Raikage would be destroyed by Perfect Susano'o.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 24, 2013)

Third raikage takes this with these stipulations. I would have arguing a blinding by fire+suansoo attack feint and then nail the raikage with a eye genjutsu but madara has knowledge. 

Well after madara gives the third raikage a tough fight he evetually gets hit with a well planned 1 finger nukite from the third.


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## Senjuclan (Feb 25, 2013)

Is this a joke thread? Madara dominates what can the rakaige do again? Use nukite against a sharingan user? His speed is comparable to his son in level one and Madara has shown to be able to react to that level of speed. His gunbai takes care of the nukite. 

For Madara to win, he needs to use genjutsu. If the raikage gets in close range, Madara uses paralysis genjutsu on him. If he chooses not to and uses black lightning, Madara counters with gunbai or susano'o. If he won't get in range, Madara uses a slash of his susano'o to get him off balance and catches him with susano'o. From there he is done. It is quite clear that Madara has tsukuyomi


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## Deleted member 175252 (Apr 15, 2014)

Madara fodderizes him


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## Jagger (Apr 15, 2014)

This thread is old, though. Living Madara didn't even exist back then.

Though, with the new feats shown, he can easily evade most Raikage's attacks and put him under a genjutsu.


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## Nikushimi (Apr 15, 2014)

Madara still hasn't shown much in the way of his base and MS abilities.

I suppose that Katon ash cloud might come in handy as a way to break line of sight and ambush the Raikage with Susano'o for a Genjutsu takedown. And the war fan might be able to counter the Ippon Nukite...maybe.



Senjuclan said:


> Madara dominates what can the rakaige do again? Use nukite against a sharingan user? *His speed is comparable to his son in level one* and Madara has shown to be able to react to that level of speed.



Thank you. I wish more people understood this.

E.g., Vice.


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## Jagger (Apr 15, 2014)

Madara's reflexes should be good enough to deal with the Raikage's insane speed.


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## Bonly (Apr 15, 2014)

I saw the title thread and started thinking "when did this thread come up for me to post in it?" and turns out it's yet another year+ old thread lol. Seeing an old post where I used to put a crapload of links is always weird nowadays but anyways I favor Madara to win now.


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## αce (Apr 15, 2014)

Wasn't the key to beating sandaime raikage the fact that his "perfect offense" was stronger than his "perfect defense"? Naruto redirected his attack onto his body. Last I checked, Madara had a technique that puts the full force of your own technique back on you with his gunbai. And I'm fairly sure a mini bijuu dama is stronger than Raikage's abilities. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Veracity (Apr 15, 2014)

If this is alive Madara, he is quite a deal bit  faster then Sandaime and has far greater reactions. And considering Madara is a tactical genius he can eventually come to the conclusion that he isn't offensively strong enough to harm the Raikage. He basically just deactivates his Susanno and uses his superior movement speed to force Genjustu.  Or he can actually outlast surprisingly considering he lasted 24 hours against Hashirama using high levels of Sussano and Katon. Here he simply needs EMS or MS activated, and I'm pretty sure keeping RnY activated is more tiresome then using a blood line dojutsu. 

... this is all assuming Madara just doesn't force Nukite into the Sandaime's face.


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