# Sokka vs. Pre-Skip Sakura



## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Battle takes place in the courtyard of Master Piandao's castle.  Sokka gets his sword, boomerang, and Water Tribe armor.  Sakura gets standard ninja gear.  Neither are bloodlusted.  Sokka has his sword _drawn_, for all those who would say that Sakura would blitz before Sokka could draw his sword.


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## Gunners (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka gets blitzed before he swings the sword.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

And how would pre-skip Sakura blitz him?  Sokka's combat skills have gone way up since training with Master Piandao.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 19, 2007)

Sakura for the epic win.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Just to let you know, I'm talking about this Sokka:

*Spoiler*: __ 




[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2AGCBpYUQY[/YOUTUBE]



Not the Sokka we came to know in Seasons 1 & 2.


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## Ulfgar (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka is made of win not fail as his opponent is and he is actually useful. Sakura loses her head, literally.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Scenario 1:  Sakura tries blitzing.  Sokka sidesteps her and slashs her ass.
Scenario 2:  Sakura throws a kunai.  Sokka deflects it and throws his boomerang.

Neither will work.  Anyone got a better strategy than blitzing?


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 19, 2007)

How about Sakura completely outmanuvers him and kills him.

Will that work?


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## MightGai (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka twice the smarts, Twice the win.

Sokka wins by being more GAR than she'll ever be.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> How about Sakura completely outmanuvers him and kills him.
> 
> Will that work?



Did you watch the video I posted?  Sokka has enough agility to contend with pre-skip Sakura.


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## Goom (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka got better i admit that.  Butttt.... he cannot beat sakura.  She was trained as a ninja for multiple years and was one of 9 in her class to be promoted to genin.

She has replication techniques and switching techniques that WILL confuse Sokka.  Sokka loses.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

Sakura uses genjutsu.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Ok, then they both get prep time to know what's in each other's arsenal.  Bye bye confusion.

EDIT: Uh, what genjutsu did Sakura display pre-skip?


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## The last Dalek (Oct 19, 2007)

pre Skip Sakura may pathetic by narutoverse standerds but she was still blatently superhuman while Sokka is peek human at best.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

How "Blatantly superhuman"?  I'm getting tired of "peak human at best" being looked upon as weak.


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## Fang (Oct 19, 2007)

The fact that she can cover at minimum dozens of meters in less then a second provides serious problems to someone like Sokka.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

When did pre-skip Sakura display speed like that?


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

lol, look at Sokka having to climb that wall.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka had just been knocked down- which Sakura won't get the chance to do.


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

...look at him trying climb that wall around same as his height while Sakura jumps up to tree branches no problem. Really funny here.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

That has nothing to do with combat.


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

Yet he was jumping around in combat. lol, look at him jump.


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## piccun? (Oct 19, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> That has nothing to do with combat.



It shows that Sakura's abilities are far above peak human.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Sure, a few abilities.  Fun fact:  Warriors with greater skill and brains can beat opponents with greater brute force.

Sokka's jumping is nothing to lol at.  It displays his agility, even though he lacks the coveted "sp33dbl1tz!!1!!".


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## Protect_The_Butter (Oct 19, 2007)

Honestly I don't see what giving Sokka a sword was supposed to do for him. He wanted to be able to help out but any mid tier bender would be able to take him out with ease. Should have just left him as the strategist.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Jet was able to contend with benders, even though he only had two swords.


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## Protect_The_Butter (Oct 19, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Jet was able to contend with benders, even though he only had two swords.




That was back in the begining of the series. Zuko, Azula, Aang, and a whole slew of others would wreck him sword or no sword.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

I also meant him helping the gAang battle the Dai Li in the Lake Laogai base.

Besides, that's irrelevant.  Pre-skip Sakura has no attacks similar to  common bending attacks.


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

She has yo know, Kunia throwing abilities as well as just flat out usage of Bushins. She will realize in the middle of combat though, oh crap I am faster than him by a lot. Suprising, might as well kill him.


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## Tash (Oct 19, 2007)

Hmm...this could go either way.


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

I dont see how he can even touch her.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 19, 2007)

Sokka has easily deflected projectiles thrown by Mai.  Not to mention pre-skip Sakura has no jutsu to speak of either than bunshins and replacements.

And I gave them prep time, so Sokka already knows about those and Sakura knows she's faster.

How can he touch her? She moves in, he slashes her.


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## Protect_The_Butter (Oct 19, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> I also meant him helping the gAang battle the Dai Li in the Lake Laogai base.
> 
> Besides, that's irrelevant.  Pre-skip Sakura has no attacks similar to  common bending attacks.



You just brought up a good point. Jet was doing pretty well against the fodder Dai Li, but even then he was still getting caught up by a couple. 

But when he went up against the leader Long Feng he got ripped apart in less than a second.

Sokka has many years less experience with a sword than Jet.


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## Chocochip (Oct 19, 2007)

He doesn't have the reaction time. His swing is too slow. The end?


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 19, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> He doesn't have the reaction time. His swing is too slow. The end?



Sakura is slow as well. I hate when people pretend everyone in Narutoverse is fast when that is a lie. 

I didn't wanna get involved in this thread. Sokka loses, but not because Sakura is too fast, which is bullshit


Sokka loses because he won't be able to tell bushins from the real deal.


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## Suzumebachi (Oct 19, 2007)

> Sokka loses, but not because Sakura is too fast



I don't get it.


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## Linkdarkside (Oct 20, 2007)

Sakura would win


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

Suzumebachi said:


> How about Sakura completely outmanuvers him and kills him.
> 
> Will that work?



See Suz, we don't always disagree, ey? ^^

Regular kid with a sword
vs
Super human with multiple weapons + Genjutsu

You do the math.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

No, on one side of the inequality is a strong, agile Water Tribe warrior with a sword and boomerang.  On the other side is a ninja with little combat skill, some kunai & shuriken, some speed, and a few jutsu.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

A strong water tribe TEEN warrior = regular kid.
Oh wait sorry, regular _*kid with*_ a *boomerang*.

A ninja (from Naruto) with little combat skill = _*Super Human with Super Human strength & Speed & Reflexes *_& Bunshin no jutsu 

Do the math.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

Regular kid with kickass sword skills.

What, Sakura has superstrength? lol.


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## Chocochip (Oct 20, 2007)

lol, funny thing is. She has super speed, strength, endurance, and overall reaction times. Her combat speed and reaction time>Sokkas. Her physical abilty>Sokka. Sokka's sword skills>Sakura. Sakura's kunia throwing>Sokkas boomerang.


Sokka dies? Yes pretty much.


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Regular kid with kickass sword skills.
> 
> What, Sakura has superstrength? lol.



She wouldn't be able to jump dozen of meters if she wasn't far stronger than peak human.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> A ninja (from Naruto) with little combat skill = _*Super Human with Super Human strength & Speed & Reflexes *_& Bunshin no jutsu


Superstrength my ass. When did pre-skip Sakura display anything even remotely close to peak human in the area of strength?


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> She wouldn't be able to jump dozen of meters if she wasn't far stronger than peak human.



Or it could be...you know, chakra in the feet.


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## Ulfgar (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> She wouldn't be able to jump dozen of meters if she wasn't far stronger than peak human.



You realize thats with Chakra right? its not brute strength.
edit dammit Swaijo beat me.


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## Chocochip (Oct 20, 2007)

Actually it isn't charkra in the feet. They use charkra to climb up trees and such, but she is normally super human.

@Kazuma:her abilty to withstand the pressure of jumping many meters and still not breaking her legs is a superstrength/endurance feat.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> Actually it isn't charkra in the feet. They use charkra to climb up trees and such, but she is normally super human.
> 
> @Kazuma:her abilty to withstand the pressure of jumping many meters and still not breaking her legs is a superstrength/endurance feat.



Sasuke used Chakra in his feet to jump higher in order to avoid Haku's thousand needles.


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## Ulfgar (Oct 20, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> Actually it isn't charkra in the feet. They use charkra to climb up trees and such, but she is normally super human.
> 
> @Kazuma:her abilty to withstand the pressure of jumping many meters and still not breaking her legs is a superstrength/endurance feat.



If chakra can decrease the time it takes for them to change their momentum it stands to reason that it can also _increase_ the time, so really its not all that superhuman.


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

Ulfgar said:


> If chakra can decrease the time it takes for them to change their momentum it stands to reason that it can also _increase_ the time, so really its not all that superhuman.



Doesn't change anything.
 If she can use chackra to make her legs jump dozens of metes, she can use chackra to give punches that can kill a normal human in one hit.(actually what she and Tsunade do is an extremely advanced version of what every ninja can do in a basic form).
 The result however is the same, Sakura wins, and easily too


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## Ulfgar (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> Doesn't change anything.
> If she can use chackra to make her legs jump dozens of metes, she can use chackra to give punches that can kill a normal human in one hit.(actually what she and Tsunade do is an extremely advanced version of what every ninja can do in a basic form).
> The result however is the same, Sakura wins, and easily too



Except that this is _Pre_ timeskip sakura who can't do that yet.

Wait, make her *legs* jump dozens of meters? What happened to the rest of her?


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 20, 2007)

So what if it's chakra that gives her the abilities?  That's like saying Goku isn't strong it's just he's using ki punches.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

The Faint Smile said:


> So what if it's chakra that gives her the abilities?  That's like saying Goku isn't strong it's just he's using ki punches.



Because people try to liken it to One Piece where the characters are naturally superhuman, when in reality they are augmenting strength and speed with chakra.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

When did pre-skip Sakura display super-strength in combat, not traveling?


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 20, 2007)

Show me her superspeed or stand down. Stop pulling this bullshit. I'm waiting for one scan of Sakura using superspeed.


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## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

Show where she has super speed. Show her super strength. Show her use of genjutsu.


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## Aokiji (Oct 20, 2007)

Lol, you can have super speed and still not be a speedster Rild. Do you seriously claim that naruto ninja's=only peak humans? I don't know bout you, but i can't jump from tree to tree. And against Ino, she used chakra to icrease her speed.

I don't know who the opponent is, so i can't comment. but Sakura defiitely has super speed. (but still fail)

EDIT: Sakura and Genjutsu? facepalm


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 20, 2007)

manyturk2 said:


> Lol, you can have super speed and still not be a speedster Rild. Do you seriously claim that naruto ninja's=only peak humans? I don't know bout you, but i can't jump from tree to tree. And against Ino, she used chakra to icrease her speed.
> 
> I don't know who the opponent is, so i can't comment. but Sakura defiitely has super speed. (but still fail)
> 
> EDIT: Sakura and Genjutsu? facepalm



Prove it or stand down. Your words aren't good enough. and her being a shinobi doesn't mean she is fast.

Prove it. If it's true, it should be easy to prove


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## Morpheus (Oct 20, 2007)

When did Sakura ever display super strength or use of genjutsu in part one?
And even if she is fast, she is nowhere near the level of speedblitzing someone.

As Rild said, stop pulling stuff out and actually prove that she had super strength, genjutsu and was at a speed level at which she could speedblitz someone.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

The extent of Sakura's genjutsu part one was clones, and thats it, her speed may indeed be above Sokka but not enough to blitz him at all. Out manuver? Eventually yes, but she is not blitzing anyone.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

Sakura is fast since everyone in narutovers is faster then normal human..Yes she can jump pretty high and all that... 

But honestly her real help against sok is the clone and replacement she is able to do...She doesnt have super punches to uses. She doesnt even know how to forum the chakra right in to her arm right to do it yet.

but with them having prep time with knowllege of each other before hand... Sok can figure out ways to snare her and slow her down..Yes he is not a ninja or anything..But it has been proven that sak is very smart.He is able to figure out traps or weapons to help him in the fights... 
Knowing him he would make something that is so freaking disgusting to be able to make sakura sick to her knees and allow him to come in and attack her..

Look how sad she use to be.. yes she has chakra control and all that crap..but in a real fight she is helpless.. The only reason why in the test she did as good as she did...look at who she was fighting..someone who was just as useless as she...well a little less useless... Also with prep time he would be able to use her unnatural love for sasuka against her...

Yes he will be out match but she will be out smarted..And a smart warrior will be able to take down almost any one.


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> Prove it or stand down. Your words aren't good enough. and her being a shinobi doesn't mean she is fast.
> 
> Prove it. If it's true, it should be easy to prove













does it suffice?


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

when people think of speed feats they are talking about lee speed feats not jumping from tree to tree type of speed feats..Yes she is fast but not fast enough....

also you have to keep in mind naruto wasnt ready to take that punch.. if they wa sreally fighting he wouldnt of flew like he did. yes that was a hard hit but not a super punch.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 20, 2007)

Fast enough to beat a normal warrior with sword skills.  Even if it's not enough for a blitz when you combine it with bunshins and replacements it's enough to get him with a kunai to the throat.


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> does it suffice?



Now tell me how fast was she going? Can you tell me that?


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> when people think of speed feats they are talking about lee speed feats not jumping from tree to tree type of speed feats..Yes she is fast but not fast enough....
> 
> also you have to keep in mind naruto wasnt ready to take that punch.. if they wa sreally fighting he wouldnt of flew like he did. yes that was a hard hit but not a super punch.



So you are saying that she is not faster and stronger than Sokka?



Giovanni Rild said:


> Now tell me how fast was she going? Can you tell me that?



In the first pic she moved fast enough that you can only see a vague shadow where her body was.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> So you are saying that she is not faster and stronger than Sokka?



Faster? Yes, but not to the point of speedblitzing.

Stronger? She had yet to learn how to enhance her strength with chakra, but Sokka has no strength feats. She is not strong enough to OHKO Sokka though.

And that "vague shadow" was only speedlines, you need a point of reference to gauge speed, the amount of speedlines used does not indicate the speed of the character.


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## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

Whats that supposed to show? speed? if so then you  should take how far apart they where into consideration



Sakura wins. But it's not the utter stomp that you guys want it to be.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

sakura will win with out prep time..with prep time sok will win.


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.Despair said:


> Sakura wins. But it's not the utter stomp that you guys want it to be.





It was supposed to show that Sakura knows how to enhance her physical feats with the use of chackra. What she can do   post time skip is the highest level of chackra control, but she could do it not as well, even before.
 Also, if you remember, the first lesson of Jirayia to the 3 orphans was on ow to draw out chackra. Basically, normal humans don't use chackra, ninja do. And we know that increasing your chackra increases your speed and strength as well. So the simple fact that she has trained for years, increasing her chackra capacity gives her physical feats above peak human, her control only enhances it.
 Her capacity are to far above her opponent, it would be a curbstomp, she would KO him with a single punch-or are you telling me he can resist a punch that can send him flying for 2 or 3 meters - like the punch she gave Ino(a ninja as strong as her, above Sokka), when Sakura was tired and Ino was in a defensive stance



 I'm tired and bored of this discussion, believe whatever you want.


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> It was supposed to show that Sakura knows how to enhance her physical feats with the use of chackra. What she can do   post time skip is the highest level of chackra control, but she could do it not as well, even before.
> Also, if you remember, the first lesson of Jirayia to the 3 orphans was on ow to draw out chackra. Basically, normal humans don't use chackra, ninja do. And we know that increasing your chackra increases your speed and strength as well. So the simple fact that she has trained for years, increasing her chackra capacity gives her physical feats above peak human, her control only enhances it.
> Her capacity are to far above her opponent, it would be a curbstomp, she would KO him with a single punch-or are you telling me he can resist a punch that can send him flying for 2 or 3 meters - like the punch she gave Ino(a ninja as strong as her, above Sokka), when Sakura was tired and Ino was in a defensive stance
> 
> ...



You getting all that from a scan of her punching someone. He wouldn't get hit by that slow punch.

I'm tired as well of talking to people that think every shinobi in Naruto is fast, even Chouji


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## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> It was supposed to show that Sakura knows how to enhance her physical feats with the use of chackra. What she can do   post time skip is the highest level of chackra control, but she could do it not as well, even before.
> Also, if you remember, the first lesson of Jirayia to the 3 orphans was on ow to draw out chackra. Basically, normal humans don't use chackra, ninja do. And we know that increasing your chackra increases your speed and strength as well. So the simple fact that she has trained for years, increasing her chackra capacity gives her physical feats above peak human, her control only enhances it.
> Her capacity are to far above her opponent, it would be a curbstomp, she would KO him with a single punch-or are you telling me he can resist a punch that can send him flying for 2 or 3 meters - like the punch she gave Ino(a ninja as strong as her, above Sokka), when Sakura was tired and Ino was in a defensive stance
> 
> ...



You still haven't shown a speed feat. She would KO him with a single punch,_ if she manages to land one hit. _

*hatey edit: keep it clean*


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

_No_, Sokka would _not_ get KO'd by a single punch from Sakura.


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## piccun? (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.Despair said:


> You still haven't shown a speed feat. She would KO him with a single punch,_ if she manages to land one hit. _





Bender Ninja said:


> _No_, Sokka would _not_ get KO'd by a single punch from Sakura.




whatever....

 you are right, Sakura is slow and weak, happy now?


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## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

piccun said:


> whatever....
> 
> you are right, Sakura is slow and weak, happy now?


 Show a speed feat


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

The problem with scan is that it doesnt really show you anything exp what you imagine it to be...So in this case lets go with video...

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYKMm_SXhU*

The scan that show her hitting ino is not a speed feat she is running at a normal speed..nothing great about it..Yes the punch was strong but not strong enough.

Face it beside the whole breaking ino's hold on her..Her biggest accomplisment in pre time skip was cutting her hair...
Also those hits she does to naruto shouldn't be counted in her real abblitys seeing that it all just sight gags..Like the once with nami in one piece beating up the guys.. In a real fight nether of them have shown that type of powers...

Think about it..Even with her super punches when have she ever hit someone this hard in a fight...
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYKMm_SXhU*

Sokka is a great fighter and a fast learner..Think about it.He was able to go head to head to a master swordmen and did pretty well  for a person who  at most only learned with in 2-3 days... 
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GYKMm_SXhU*

sokka is not a joke when it comes down to a fight.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.Despair said:


> Show where she has super speed. Show her super strength. Show her use of genjutsu.



*Super speed:*

- Jumping from tree to tree is an indirect speed feat seeing as they're not floaty and the trees are pretty far apart, she needs to be moving at a certain speed to make those jumps (and in theory should be able to use that same technique to run faster than any normal human)

- Traveling countries in a couple of days on foot.
Again, nothing specific, but it proves she's not a regular human in speed terms

- Kawarimi

*Strength:*

- Again the tree jumping & climbing.
Kakashi even said it.

*Climb this tree, if you use too much Chakra the tree cracks, if you use too little you won't even stick to it*

Now imagine her using abit too much chakra on your face. Yeah, thats what I thought. She's a super human.

And don't you dare say she can't do it with her hands before the time skip because Kakashi also stated that controlling the Chakra in your feet is the hardest.

- The Giant piece of wood during the chuunin exam (the trap) didn't set itself.

*Genjutsu:*

Bunshin no jutsu


Sokka's dead.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> *Super speed:*
> 
> - Jumping from tree to tree is an indirect speed feat seeing as they're not floaty and the trees are pretty far apart, she needs to be moving at a certain speed to make those jumps (and in theory should be able to use that same technique to run faster than any normal human)
> 
> ...


The thing about the tree is  all about chakra control.. Thats why the tree will break it has nothin to show that she is super strong because she doesnt know how to punch like that yet. SHE DOESNT HAVE SUPER PUNCHS IN THAT TIME.Yes she hits hard but not as hard as she did after time skip..Sokka is use to being hit by very hard crap.

Also with those leaps are not speed feats seeing that anyone in narutovers is able to do it..Hell give sokka nin classes he will be able to do it...


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## Chocochip (Oct 20, 2007)

She has kunias. That is plenty.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

If Sakura tries punching Sokka will either dodge or the hand will get sliced in two.

No, Sokka can block kunais.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

sokka has boomerang which keeps coming back.. Plus it looks like not only the boom is a long descents weapon it also it can double has a sword..He has used it to cut things down before..


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

He doesn't need his boomerang for melee if he has his sword.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

he can have both.  double wield ftw


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 20, 2007)

Except he uses his sword with two hands.


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## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> *Super speed:*
> 
> - Jumping from tree to tree is an indirect speed feat seeing as they're not floaty and the trees are pretty far apart, she needs to be moving at a certain speed to make those jumps (and in theory should be able to use that same technique to run faster than any normal human)


 Not a speed feat, all it proves is that they have stamina and use chakra to boost their strength. Jumping tree to tree is not a speed feat, it can be counted as a strength feat i.e leg muscles and a stamina feat i.e jumping from tree to tree is tiring.



> - Traveling countries in a couple of days on foot.
> Again, nothing specific, but it proves she's not a regular human in speed terms


 How big where did countries? How long did it take them to specifically get there?

During the sasuke retrieval arc it took a solid day to reach the outskirts of the konoha forest. 



> - Kawarimi


What?



> *Strength:*
> 
> - Again the tree jumping & climbing.
> Kakashi even said it.
> ...


 Assumption, nothing in the manga has ever indicated that she can control chakra in her hand, besides it was stated that the precises chkra control to increase your punches is so difficult that only a medical nin like tsunade can pull it off. As of pre-skip sakura did not have that chakra control



> - The Giant piece of wood during the chuunin exam (the trap) didn't set itself.


You don't know how she set it up so anything you say on the subject is an assumption. Thats a classifiable strength feat.



> *Genjutsu:*
> 
> Bunshin no jutsu
> 
> ...


Bushin is not a genjutsu it classified under ninjutsu

*Spoiler*: __ 





> *Bunshin no Jutsu (Clone Technique)*
> First Performed by: Uzumaki Naruto
> Type of Technique: NinJutsu
> Chapter: 1
> ...


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

At this point yes but with the sokka he is using we have yet to see how he fair in a fight..

Like i said with prep time sokka wins..without it be close.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 20, 2007)

You need to be faster then the eye can see to use Kawamari. There is a minimum lv of speed require for that depending on the distance. That's burst speed. 
Runnin speed is self-evident. 

strength
punching naruto meters and breaking a fence.
Knocking ino over 5 meters.
Moving the log in the forest of death. 

-Tree Climbing explanation shows chakra has impact on physical tangiable objects. It smashing the tree with the slightest of force is evident of the kind of power it gives. Directing chakra to body parts in combat is extremly basic. What Tsunade/Sakura do is the most advnaced form, but everyone does it to a degree. Sasuke commented on Rock Lee's stong chakra on his arms, etc. 

Bunshin's, faster then the eye burst speed, and a kunai to the head, mean Sokka has no chance whatsoever. This is really deserving of the joke battledom.


----------



## Red (Oct 20, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> You need to be faster then the eye can see to use Kawamari. There is a minimum lv of speed require for that depending on the distance. That's burst speed.
> Runnin speed is self-evident.


 Nothing in the description of kawamari 
states that speed is needed.
*Spoiler*: __ 



Body Replacement Technique
? Name: Kawarimi no Jutsu, 変わり身の術, literally "Body Replacement Technique", "Change of Body Technique", "Change of Stance Technique", or "Replacement Technique", English TV "Replacement Jutsu" or "Substitution Jutsu" 
?	Type: E-rank, Supplementary 
?	Users: All Ninja Academy graduates 
This jutsu lets the user quickly switch places with another nearby object, such as a plant (normally a section of a log), an animal, or even another person within reach, leaving the opponent open to a counter-attack. Explosive tags can be attached to the replacement for an added surprise. Fundamentally, all ninja know this technique.
The anime has a number of other objects being used for this jutsu, such as a boulder, mud, a scarecrow, and even a large rolled-up carpet. These items are usually nowhere in sight, suggesting that they are merely gags meant to lighten up the situation and not an actual part of the jutsu. Additionally, the normal practice of switching places with a section of log is done in several places that have no such thing anywhere nearby.
This technique is sometimes referred to as the Art of Projection ("Utsusemi no Jutsu") in other manga and anime series.






> strength
> punching naruto meters and breaking a fence.
> Knocking ino over 5 meters.
> Moving the log in the forest of death.


Unless you can provide where you actually see her moving the log with her physical strength then that point is a baseless assumption.



> -Tree Climbing explanation shows chakra has impact on physical tangiable objects. It smashing the tree with the slightest of force is evident of the kind of power it gives. Directing chakra to body parts in combat is extremly basic. What Tsunade/Sakura do is the most advnaced form, *but everyone does it to a degree*. Sasuke commented on Rock Lee's stong chakra on his arms, etc.


Generalization, apart from the tree climbing training nothing has shown that sakura can use chakra to augment her strength.

Because lee can do it or doesn't mean any tom dick and harry can also. You're assuming that if A can do something then B can do the same, when thats not the case.

Sakura has strength, but thats useless if you can't land a hit.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> strength
> *punching naruto meters and breaking a fence.*
> Knocking ino over 5 meters.
> *Moving the log in the forest of death. *



1. Please, do not tell me you are referring to what I think you are, thats as serious as Nami hurting Luffy.

2. She did it off-screen she could of used a make-shift pulley from ninja wire.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.Despair said:


> Nothing in the description of kawamari
> states that speed is needed.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


 

1. Giving a descriptions of the tech isn't needed. it is illustrated in the manga when Kakashi is testing them. In that scene it is made perfectly clear you need to move faster then the eye can see. It's literally explained. Besides, how do you suppose it fools the opponent if they cannot move out of the line of sight so the objects is hit; wherein their opponent is suprised by the tactic ? This is a serious question. What usefulness would Kawa be if you could not displace yourself fast enough for it to matter ? Also, Zaku Vs Sakura she moves faster then his eyes can see.

2. Ludicrous and non-sensical demand. Tell me how the log came to be positioned how it was without Sakura having moved it in any way shape or form. It could not have been. It's simple logic. Also, no where did I stated she picked it up like it was nothing or tossed it around like tissue paper. However, it is obvious she moved it. 
-Also, not adressing the other points doesn't make them less valid. The others show striking strength above what Sokka has shown able to take. 

3. the  generalizations have a clear and evident line that's established by tree climbing, previous explanations of chakra, and continous statements and information about chakra control. Also, I find it funny that you've dismissed the tree climbing. The Tree climbing doesn't just show she has strength, it shows that chakra diverting does effect physical objects when they are hit. I.E. if you gather your chakra on a part it does more damage to stuff. -Sakura gather chakra to her feet to move. If she does the same but instead kicks the result is increased blunt force damage.

4. Sokka running speed is normal. Hers is not. 
Sakura can move faster then the eye can see in burst, he cannot. . 
Sakura not landing a hit is rather stupid, I'd say. Bunshin's against two fighters of even the same speed is a gross advantage that will provide an opening.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

Mr.Despair said:


> Not a speed feat, all it proves is that they have stamina and use chakra to boost their strength. Jumping tree to tree is not a speed feat, it can be counted as a strength feat i.e leg muscles and a stamina feat i.e jumping from tree to tree is tiring.



Ah so they were floating from tree to tree?
Sure, its nothing too accurate, but it IS SUPERHUMAN.
You cannot deny that to jump from tree to tree you need a certain amount of speed, even though we don't know exactly how fast they need to go, just that regular humans can't possbily hope to go that fast. And sadly enough for Sokka he's just that.



> How big where did countries? How long did it take them to specifically get there?



Point taken, scrap that.



> What?



What do you mean "what".
With Kawarimi they quickly switch places with <insert random object> without their enemies being able to follow their movement.
Again, its not an accurate speed feat, just shows her movement is definitely super human. And that she's definitely too fast for Sokka.

@Mr.Despair
What else can it possibly be?



> Assumption, nothing in the manga has ever indicated that she can control chakra in her hand, besides it was stated that the precises chkra control to increase your punches is so difficult that only a medical nin like tsunade can pull it off. As of pre-skip sakura did not have that chakra control



Logical assumption. Kakashi stated that controlling Chakra in your feet is the hardest of all and that if you can do the whole tree climbing thing, that means you can pretty much learn any technique. Sakura mastered it pretty darn quickly, so naturally she's able to do "atleast" that with her hands (wich is cracking a tree, or Sokka's skull in this case).

Its like saying Kakashi can't perform a bunshin (the illusion) just because he never showed it even though he performed Kage Bunshin, wich is the more advanced and harder version.



> You don't know how she set it up so anything you say on the subject is an assumption. Thats a classifiable strength feat.



Nope, I don't know how she set it up. But I do know she set it up.
Looking at the trap she must have lifted it someway to set it up like that. So again, its nothing accurate but she did move that large tree chuck and I can't imagine that trap didn't require some form of supernatural strength.



> Bushin is not a genjutsu it classified under ninjutsu



Hmm, didn't know that.
Doesn't change the fact that he'll get raped by it.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 20, 2007)

This is ridiculous, you're arguing over semantics at this point.  It's obvious that a human swordsman can't win against the weakest of Naruto ninja(which is who we're talking about..)

Edit- Ok, well that's true it's the combination of her ninjitsu that gives her the edge.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Ah so they were floating from tree to tree?
> Sure, its nothing too accurate, but it IS SUPERHUMAN.
> You cannot deny that to jump from tree to tree you need a certain amount of speed, even though we don't know exactly how fast they need to go, just that regular humans can't possbily hope to go that fast. And sadly enough for Sokka he's just that.
> 
> ...



@Faint Smile: It's pretty much agreed Sakura wins, butpeople seem to think speedblitz is the reason which it is not.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

Swajio said:


> Actually it would not require speed, coordination to use enough strength to land on the targeted branch, yes. Strength to kick off with enough force? Yes the chakra gives her the kicking power neccessary.



Ah, so with enough coordination and strength to land on the targeted branch, you don't need any speed? So what, she just floats to the next branch at walking speed?



> certain amount of speed would be needed, but the smoke would provide an extra cover to give ninja's more time to set up an escape.



The smoke appears _after_ they switched.



> Naruto mastered tree climbing, how easy did he learn Rasengan?



Thats not just Chakra controlling, but manipulation as well.



> He did use bunshin actually, at the end of the fight with Zabuza to fool the thugs.



You're missing or trying to evade my point.
Replace Kakashi with Naruto.



> A pulley system would considerably decrease the strength needed.



But regardless of how you slice it its still Super Human seeing as she did that all by herself.

Also, will you please stop quoting me like that? Its annoying to reply to.

And people don't think she wins by speedblitz only, she simply outclasses him completely in every aspect.


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Ah, so with enough coordination and strength to land on the targeted branch, you don't need any speed? So what, she just floats to the next branch at walking speed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you didn't see it, it didn't happen. So stop saying Sakura pulled that branch up there with her strength


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## chequemaite (Oct 20, 2007)

Sakura will win


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Ah, so with enough coordination and strength to land on the targeted branch, you don't need any speed? So what, she just floats to the next branch at walking speed?
> 
> *No, but it's not the speedblitzing speed you're thinking of.*
> 
> ...



I'm sorry if you find my way of a replying an inconvenience, but doing this saves me time and allows me to address different aspects of your post efficiently.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 20, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> If you didn't see it, it didn't happen. So stop saying Sakura pulled that branch up there with her strength



If you can give me 1 scenario where moving such a big chunck of wood without help or machines doesn't require super human strength then I'll admit you're right.

Because its a fact she set that trap and its a fact she lifted it some how.
There's no point in denying that.


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## Tash (Oct 20, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> If you can give me 1 scenario where moving such a big chunck of wood without help or machines doesn't require super human strength then I'll admit you're right.
> 
> Because its a fact she set that trap and its a fact she lifted it some how.
> There's no point in denying that.



Who's denying it? But with basic ninja tools it's quite possible that she got the log up there with non-spectacular strength. Pulleys reduce the force needed to lift an object, and in order to make a pulley system she had everything she needed. String (which she clearly had to hang the wood from), and an axle (in this case a tree branch). As a matter a fact there must have been some form of an axle involved as the log would need something to swing on.


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## zan (Oct 20, 2007)

like i said.... If sokka has prep time and fully understand her powers..He can set up some way to trap her or make her sick enough to weakin her. And he can come in with a kill.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 21, 2007)

Pre-skip Sakura never displayed combat skill to match Sokka, enough speed to blitz him, or enough strength to knock him out with one hit.

By use of clones, yeah, she could trick him.  But I gave him prep time, so he knows about clones.

What it really comes down to is if Sakura has enough combat speed to slip past Sokka's sword and stab him with a kunai.  If not, she gets impaled.  I doubt she can get around the sword.  Sword forged from a meteorite >>> little ninja kunai.


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## Jackal (Oct 21, 2007)

sokka curbstomps her horribly.


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## zan (Oct 21, 2007)

There will be no speed blizts in this fight.Both sides will have to give them there all and have one hell of a fight in head of them..


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## Ippy (Oct 21, 2007)

Kawarimi is _hardly_ a speed feat.

All a user has to do is see an attack coming to be able to use the technique.  You don't necessarily have to be significantly faster than your opponent to use it without them knowing.

The only logical explanation(IMO) is that it's a technique that uses teleportation to switch the ninja and whatever their replacing their body with.  Unless someone wants to explain to me how the ninja using the technique is able to find a tree, cut out a log, place it where they used to be, cast a genjutsu on it, and move out the way all before the attack(which was heading towards their former position the whole time) even hits the replacement?


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 21, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Kawarimi is _hardly_ a speed feat.
> 
> All a user has to do is see an attack coming to be able to use the technique.  You don't necessarily have to be significantly faster than your opponent to use it without them knowing.
> 
> The only logical explanation(IMO) is that it's a technique that uses teleportation to switch the ninja and whatever their replacing their body with.  Unless someone wants to explain to me how the ninja using the technique is able to find a tree, cut out a log, place it where they used to be, cast a genjutsu on it, and move out the way all before the attack(which was heading towards their former position the whole time) even hits the replacement?



Made of win.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 21, 2007)

Is there other footage besides him fighting the swordmaster guy that I'm missing?  I haven't seen any real argument for him besides correcting some falsehoods regarding Sakura's skill set which does nothing at all to change the fact that she can outmaneuver him.


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## Tash (Oct 21, 2007)

I agree with Hate, if Sakura can use Kawarami on someone of her speed level (Zaku) clearly speed is not involved, if it was a feat based on speed then why not use that type of speed to blitz your opponent?


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 21, 2007)

The Faint Smile said:


> Is there other footage besides him fighting the swordmaster guy that I'm missing?  I haven't seen any real argument for him besides correcting some falsehoods regarding Sakura's skill set which does nothing at all to change the fact that she can outmaneuver him.



I said Sakura wins by bushins. But I wanted to make sure that people understanded that she couldn't speedblitz him.


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## piccun? (Oct 21, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> I said Sakura wins by bushins. But I wanted to make sure that people understanded that she couldn't speedblitz him.






this is clearly a speed feat, she can move so fast that you see just a vague blur. She can speedblitz him.


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## Random Nobody (Oct 21, 2007)

That could have something to do with the fact that most of the posts in this thread aren't arguing that Sokka wins, there arguing that saying Sakura wins via speedblitz is retarded.  

Oh and Sakura wins.

EDIT:
@piccun:  So your saying that she can speedblitz him because of speed lines?


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## Ulfgar (Oct 21, 2007)

piccun said:


> this is clearly a speed feat, she can move so fast that you see just a vague blur. She can speedblitz him.



No its really not considering we don't know how far she has traveled. All I see are speed lines.


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## Ippy (Oct 21, 2007)

A Sokka reaction feat, which I sadly can't post scans(nor screenshots ><) of, starts halfway through 21:01 and ends in the same second of episode 4, season 3.

While running and looking backwards, his master was actually _ahead_ of him, and attempts to cut off Sokka's head.

As soon as Sokka turns his head back around, he sees the sword and ducks it in the same motion.

Sakura is NOT speedblitzing Sokka.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 21, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Kawarimi is _hardly_ a speed feat.
> 
> All a user has to do is see an attack coming to be able to use the technique.  You don't necessarily have to be significantly faster than your opponent to use it without them knowing.
> 
> The only logical explanation(IMO) is that it's a technique that uses teleportation to switch the ninja and whatever their replacing their body with.  Unless someone wants to explain to me how the ninja using the technique is able to find a tree, cut out a log, place it where they used to be, cast a genjutsu on it, and move out the way all before the attack(which was heading towards their former position the whole time) even hits the replacement?



So all ninja's down to academy graduates can use teleportation ?
So should I argue that as long as a ninja can see an attack coming, without pis they can teleport away ?


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 21, 2007)

Yeah pretty much that's why KnJ is the most plot affected jutsu.  People like Deidara who use it well go from one trick ponies to ultra elusive kage level ninjas.

What if Hidan and Kakuzu actually used KnJ? We'd have a whole lot of dead leaf ninja on our hands..


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## Tash (Oct 21, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> So all ninja's down to academy graduates can use teleportation ?
> So should I argue that as long as a ninja can see an attack coming, without pis they can teleport away ?



Are you suggesting that Sakura had such a speed advantage over Zaku that she could cut out a section of wood from a tree, switch places with it, cast genjutsu on it, and hide before Zaku's attack hit? If she has that much speed over him why not simply blitz him with a kunai to the neck? If Kawarami relies on speed then in each instance it is used as Sakura used it the person using it would have to have such a speed advantage over the attacker that the incoming attack would seem as if it's barely moving.


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## Random Nobody (Oct 21, 2007)

If Kawarimi was based on speed then Sakura would have killed Dosu, Kin, and Zaku before any of them realized she'd moved.

Is it that hard to believe that Kawarimi is a form of short range teleportation?


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## Ippy (Oct 21, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> So all ninja's down to academy graduates can use teleportation ?
> So should I argue that as long as a ninja can see an attack coming, without pis they can teleport away ?


Teleportation in the form of a Kawarimi? Yes.

It can't possibly be speed, or else why go through all of that trouble to find a tree, cut out a log, place it where they used to be, cast a genjutsu on it, and move out the way all before the attack hits the replacement instead of just... dodging?


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## reddogs52 (Oct 21, 2007)

umm okay watch the sakura vs ino fight thats superhumen since she transfered her chakra to her individual body parts to make her punch stronger

the word superhuman means to have abilitys over most REGULAR humans that little display of a super punch is by far past peak human it sent ino flying a good yard or 2 which if I punched you in the face youd only fall down and I punch with more then 150 newtons I guarentee you that so that means sakura is stronger then me with that punch and physicaly I am the higher 10% of 13 year olds 

so sakura is super human and shes smarter hint first chuning exam and shes got bushins but no genjutsu that I know of,but hell she can walk up trees and on water lol she can just throw kunais at soka from trees ect...and use replacement jutsu ect...(the basic ninjutsu everyone learns) ummm...she knew the hand seals for a katon im asuming she can do one but isnt very good


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 21, 2007)

Maybe it seemed like I was making fun of Hate's post, but I was actually asking him if he thinks its better to give everyone down to Academy graduates teleportation abilties. I mean, I don't mind assuming that... it kind of makes narutoverse stronger. It's always a bit more sensical of an explanation...... although it kind of goes against the whole space-time jutsu deal being rare. Whatever.

I don't really see how the either  teleportation or high speed changes the fight though.


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## Ippy (Oct 21, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> Maybe it seemed like I was making fun of Hate's post, but I was actually asking him if he thinks its better to give everyone down to Academy graduates teleportation abilties. I mean, I don't mind assuming that... it kind of makes narutoverse stronger. It's always a bit more sensical of an explanation...... although it kind of goes against the whole space-time jutsu deal being rare. Whatever.


Thing is, Kawarimi is a PIS move used only to increase suspense.

"Oh shit they got him!" to "WTF!?"

I don't think it would be arguable that they could spam it all they wanted to in order to teleport Yondaime-style.



Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> I don't really see how the either  teleportation or high speed changes the fight though.


We all believe that Sakura would win, from my understanding, we're just arguing _how_.


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## reddogs52 (Oct 21, 2007)

im seeing alot of ppl say sakura isnt superhuman and then they get proved wrong but there ignorance says" well thats not fast enough to blits" you guys are freaking stupid!"machine gun blits!" thats one of our football calls where we BLITS them


so this thread is over sakura wins because she is faster stronger and more indurable because of her chakra controll and also she has bushins kunai ect...

thread over sakura has won


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 21, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Thing is, Kawarimi is a PIS move used only to increase suspense.
> 
> "Oh shit they got him!" to "WTF!?"
> 
> ...



Pre-timeskip Sakura used it I think it was 3 or 4 times against Zaku. 
Alot of ninja's have shown to use it whenever they are being bound, cornered, or just feel like it. So if we are operating without pis/cis in battledom they should be able to spam it quite readily.  

Honestly, arguing they wouldn't use something as advantageous as teleportation is like arguing Luffy wouldn't use Gear 2 or 3 to attack.

edit: I also want to make it clear I am not conceeding she doesn't have Superhuman speed. However, I simply don't see the point in arguing about it if she can teleport 3-4 times in sucession and with speed enough to do so mid kunai throw.... < She has to do the seal I mean...


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## Ippy (Oct 21, 2007)

I meant using the teleportation as an offensive technique to supplement their own attacks... ala Yondaime.

I know that they use it wholesale whenever trapped or in a situation where they know they can't dodge.  That I wasn't arguing at all.


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## Cthulhu-versailles (Oct 21, 2007)

Haterade said:


> I meant using the teleportation as an offensive technique to supplement their own attacks... ala Yondaime.
> 
> I know that they use it wholesale whenever trapped or in a situation where they know they can't dodge.  That I wasn't arguing at all.



I Would have responded right away but I needed to focus on something in RL. 

Anyway, I disagree, they should be able to use it offensively but not to the degree Yondaime can. That being said, without pis/cis why would they not teleport behind someone to stab them in the head and keep spamming the tactic ? ---- Characters like Itachi and Sasuke would especially spam the living hell out of teleportation offensively.


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## zan (Oct 21, 2007)

piccun said:


> this is clearly a speed feat, she can move so fast that you see just a vague blur. She can speedblitz him.


like i said before you cant use manga scan for speed feats it doesnt show crap..

So rewatcg the eps.


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## Chocochip (Oct 22, 2007)

How does punch in the face before Sokka can do anything but flinch not work?


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 22, 2007)

Fine, fine, Sakura wins by clones and trickery.  He would focus on a clone, and a Kunai would come out of seemingly nowhere and nail him.  BUT NOT BY SP33DBL1TZ!!11!!!!.  Sakura is not that fast, and Sokka has a sword he can use if her real body gets close to him.


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## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

Mocktrust-Ignis said:


> I Would have responded right away but I needed to focus on something in RL.
> 
> Anyway, I disagree, they should be able to use it offensively but not to the degree Yondaime can. That being said, without pis/cis why would they not teleport behind someone to stab them in the head and keep spamming the tactic ? ---- Characters like Itachi and Sasuke would especially spam the living hell out of teleportation offensively.



The best proof of Hate's theory would be Anko's encounter with Orochimaru, she stabbed him to the tree, and later found out it was Kawarami, but when Oro appeared he had a stab wound in his hand, indicating that he himself was stabbed in the hand but somehow managed to un-stick himself from the tree w/o Anko noticing, that sounds like limited teleportation to me.


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## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Haterade said:


> Teleportation in the form of a Kawarimi? Yes.
> 
> It can't possibly be speed, or else why go through all of that trouble to find a tree, cut out a log, place it where they used to be, cast a genjutsu on it, and move out the way all before the attack hits the replacement instead of just... dodging?





Because it isn't teleportation...is just a sudden burst of speed just like shunshin. 

Sasuke clearly use the word quickly (therefore there is a frame of time or he would just say instanteous) here and explain how the ninja takes someone near him to replace it with himself. In this case Naruto's clone. Kakashi took Naruto's clone...put it there and then he went to hide in the tree. 

You can't change the fact ninjas are fast enough to grab something near like a tree or a clone faster than the eye can register....grabbing an object isn't instantaneous

-----------------------------------------------
On the topic: 

Even if that's speed It wouldn't count as fighting speed because just like shunshin (except Sasuke) it never has been show in context of direct contact. 

But she still speedblitz him. Just look the speed of her jumping between the trees or showing the speedlines when they went to hiding. It doesn't matter if there isn't a measure of speed....it's the fact she can move at last a few meters faster than other people can even react (like she did using chakra control against Ino). 

Sokka pretty much sucks as fighter. Only in the last chapter he learned to use a sword and he still is a newbie...he couldn't even defeat that master who isn't even close to Sakura's speed, strength or superhuman accuracy (look when she uses a kunai with pinpoint accuracy to hook Naruto's clothes to a tree). 

It's Sokka's head a more difficult target than this?. lol



This is Sakura's strength



Sorry but I haven't meet anyone in this world  who can lift a log like this even with system of pulleys. That's pretty much bullshit and grasping straws. Hell...."a system of pulleys"...lol...Occam's Razor please.

How Sokka could even touch her when she can do kawamiri or use bunshin whenever she wants?



Moving faster than another ninja can react. Can someone give me a proof about Sokka being faster than Ino?. Because in other case the same will happen with him. 

Sakura has so many ways to kill Sokka that isn't even funny. She can jump higher than him, she moves faster than him, she has more strength than him, she has way better accuracy than him. She can use kawamiris and bunshin whenever she wants to fool Sokka and attack him from another point. Etc..

Even a bender wouldn't have a chance against Pre-Timeskip Sakura (even people like Ty Lee and Mai can pwn benders)....much less a regular kid like Sokka.


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## Morpheus (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> This is Sakura's strength
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I haven't meet anyone in this world  who can lift a log like this even with system of pulleys. That's pretty much bullshit and grasping straws. Hell...."a system of pulleys"...lol...Occam's Razor please.



Check closer that scan you posted as a strength feat, it was only a trap, she didn't lift it.


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## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Sieglein said:


> Check closer that scan you posted as a strength feat, it was only a trap, she didn't lift it.



Lol. She made the trap. She need to put it there in first place.


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## Perfect Moron (Oct 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> The best proof of Hate's theory would be Anko's encounter with Orochimaru, she stabbed him to the tree, and later found out it was Kawarami, but when Oro appeared he had a stab wound in his hand, indicating that he himself was stabbed in the hand but somehow managed to un-stick himself from the tree w/o Anko noticing, that sounds like limited teleportation to me.



That was filler, it was a kage bunshin in the manga.


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## Morpheus (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Lol. She made the trap. She need to put it there in first place.



Doesn't she have any more direct strength feats? If she had that kind of strength why didn't she use it against Ino?


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## Chocochip (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes, there were certainly  traps to be made at that stage.


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## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

Perfect Moron said:


> That was filler, it was a kage bunshin in the manga.



What's your point? He still had the cut on his hand, meaning somehow he escaped from Anko without her noticing, after she dug the kunai into her hand locking them together.


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## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Sieglein said:


> Doesn't she have any more direct strength feats? If she had that kind of strength why didn't she use it against Ino?



Who said she didn't use it against Ino?. You are asuming ninjas have the same durability as regular humans when guys like Jiroubo can lift hundred of tons and yet an attack of him didn't even K.O Sasuke.


----------



## zan (Oct 22, 2007)

The log isnt a feat. I can lift logs using pulley system its not that hard.All you have to do is set up a counter weight  and lift it up...A person can easly lift a few hundred LB with out any problems..Trust me iv been working with pulleys since i was 6.


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## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> The log isnt a feat. I can lift logs using pulley system its not that hard.All you have to do is set up a counter weight  and lift it up...A person can easly lift a few hundred LB with out any problems..Trust me iv been working with pulleys since i was 6.



Lol. You can't lift a log like that even with pulleys. Nobody can. Did you see the size of that log?. It's like several elephants put together. 



That thing is weigths easily several tons. You can't even dream to lift that even with Stephen Hawkings as back up for your "pulleys"

And you are just assuming she used pulleys when none in the manga even suggested something like that while superhuman strength is something very common in the manga. Occam's Razor please.


----------



## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Lol. *You can't lift a log like that even with pulleys*. Nobody can. Did you see the size of that log?. It's like several elephants put together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With the rope stretched over a long enough pulley system it would be quite possible. And you are assuming that she picked up the log climbed up a tree defying natural laws by holding an object far larger than herself, yet having enough handle over it to keep from dropping it. While the instance of the trap being deployed shows enough evidence to support it being raised by a pulley.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> With the rope stretched over a long enough pulley system it would be quite possible. And you are assuming that she picked up the log climbed up a tree defying natural laws by holding an object far larger than herself, yet having enough handle over it to keep from dropping it. While the instance of the trap being deployed shows enough evidence to support it being raised by a pulley.



No. It isn't possible. There is no human of our world who could lift a log like that with pulleys. That thing has more than 10 meters of diameter easily and don't even mention the large. Show me a video or a photo o someone of our world LIFTING something even close to that log with pulleys or it didn't happened. 

I just taking the logical route. Super strength is a common factor in Narutoverse....there isn't even a suggestion of pulleys in that scene or even in the whole manga. It take superstrength any time of the day. 

You realize that the heavy hitters of Narutoverse can lift hundreds of tons like Jiroubo, Butterfly Chouji or Tsunade?. And their punches still doesn't break the skull of "regular" ninjas. Lol. Kyuubi Naruto could stop a massive snake in an instant using his body as shield....and then a way more powerful version was being punched around by base Sasuke. 

Don't you realize there is something called comparative strength?. Do you need to every single character of DBZ lift a rock of several tons as proof of superstrength?. 

No. Just the fact people is hurting and taking hits of guys who already proven capable of that is enough. 

It's the same here plus you have a proof. Saying she used pulleys is just grasping straws.

-----
The funny thing here is nobody has given even a single decent reason about why should Sokka win instead they are trying to say why Sakura isn't so great...lol. 

Sokka isn't even peak human. There are many regular humans of our world who could take down him. If people think Sakura isn't even above a peak human I feel sorry for them.


----------



## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> No. It isn't possible. There is no human of our world who could lift a log like that with pulleys. That thing has more than 10 meters of diameter easily and don't even mention the large. Show me a video or a photo o someone of our world LIFTING something even close to that log with pulleys or it didn't happened.
> *Pulleys operate by spreading weight over a larger distance, making less force necessary to raise said object. Is there a reason why a log like that would not be able to be raised by a pulley? And do you really need a video teaching you how a basic machine like a pulley works? *
> I just taking the logical route. Super strength is a common factor in Narutoverse....there isn't even a suggestion of pulleys in that scene or even in the whole manga. It take superstrength any time of the day.
> *A. There was clearly an axle involved as the log must have been swinging on something.
> ...



ten character


----------



## master bruce (Oct 22, 2007)

I agree with what you asid, except for one thing.


take spiderman for instance, would you say the fodder street thug has super durability and superstrength just because he can take a spiderman punch, because they do take spiderman's punches.
there's comparitive strength,but then there's also, something called holding back.


spiderman holds back alot.

many narutoverse nin hold back too, not wanting to use all chakra or tire out quickly even when upset, like sasuke usually is, you'll see him doing this often.

kakashi does it too, maito does it too.

many of the top-tier NV nin hold back alot itachi and oro are other examples,
the only person in all of NV who doens't hold back on the regular is tsunade and thats because she is crazy physco.



Before you try to flame me, dude.

I'm not totally disaggreeing with you, but I'm not totally aggreeing with you either.


to each his own opinion dude, thats why its called a debate.


I do completely aggree with you on one thing......Sakura will stomp.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Oct 22, 2007)

Just the thought of pre-skip Sakura setting that trap without mechanical help is ridiculous... hell even post-skip Sakura would have a hard time setting up a trap like that.  I'm not sure any Narutoverse ninja has displayed strength and coordination on that level.  Your argument that it's too big to be set up with pulleys is self-defeating.

Good point about no one posting support of Sokka, just criticizing Sakura.  I do admit that Sakura is above peak human in speed and reflexes... but just barely.


----------



## Nihonjin (Oct 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> Pulleys operate by spreading weight over a larger distance, making less force necessary to raise said object. Is there a reason why a log like that would not be able to be raised by a pulley? And do you really need a video teaching you how a basic machine like a pulley works?



Yes, we do.

If you can show me a vid of someone lifting a small car or something similar using a pully system I'll accept it wasn't strength.



> It's Sokka's head a more difficult target than this?. lol



Forget accuracy, tell me it doesn't require superhuman strength to throw a kunai and intercept a falling 12 year old and pin him to a tree.


----------



## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Yes, we do.
> 
> If you can show me a vid of someone lifting a small car or something similar using a pully system I'll accept it wasn't strength.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry then, as most people don't hoist up random heavy shit and stick it on youtube.

If you want examples however, most ancient Egyptian, and Roman structures were built with the aid of pulleys.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Oct 22, 2007)

Show me Sakura actually lifting the log, and I'll accept that it is strength

Well, once the kunai has penetrated the cloth and stuck to a surface, it's up to the kunai and surface to keep the person up, not the thrower.


----------



## Nihonjin (Oct 22, 2007)

Show me an alternative way of setting up that trap other than strength and I'll accept it.

Saying it doesn't require any stength with a pulley system might be true, but if you can't provide an example of how a pulley system works then you can't possibly expect me to believe it. Because seriously, a pulley system might make it easier to lift things, but I refuse to believe (without proof) it allowes a normal 12 year old girl to lift such a ridiculously huge log.


----------



## Ulfgar (Oct 22, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Show me an alternative way of setting up that trap other than strength and I'll accept it.
> 
> Saying it doesn't require any stength with a pully system might be true, but if you can't provide an example of how a pully system works then you can't possibly expect me to believe it. Because seriously, a pully system might make it easier to lift things, but I refuse to believe (without proof) it allowes a normal 12 year old girl to lift such a ridiculously huge log.



In the Science museum in boston there is an exibit where 1/2 a ton is attached to a pulley system and I have seen kids younger than 12 pull up the weight. I have actually done it myself.

oh yeah 

you didn't learn this in school?

edit fixed.


----------



## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

Look at the right side of the log. My interpretation of it is that the log is pretty hollow, further proof of this would be Dosu busting through it so easily when a root pulled up by Rock Lee took considerably less damage, not even breaking in half and being considerably smaller. That being said, the feat is really not that far out there, it probably took more strength than your average twelve year old would posses but a pulley really should have made that no big deal in the big picture of things.


----------



## Nihonjin (Oct 22, 2007)

Ulfgar said:


> In the Science museum in boston there is an exibit where 1/2 a ton is attached to a pulley system and I have seen kids younger than 12 pull up the weight. I have actually done it myself.
> 
> oh yeah here
> 
> you didn't learn this in school?



Page not found.
I know how it works, but it has its limits and I'm asking you to show me they lie further than I think they do.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Swajio said:


> ten character



First. Can you quote properly?. It's a pain in the ass answering you like this. 



Swajio said:


> Pulleys operate by spreading weight over a larger distance, making less force necessary to raise said object. Is there a reason why a log like that would not be able to be raised by a pulley? And do you really need a video teaching you how a basic machine like a pulley works?



Lol...we know how a pulley works. But we know it has limits to according to the strength of the user. Or do you think you could lift a meteorite with a pulley system using you as the primal force?. Please...show me a video or concede. You aren't convincing anyone that you can pull a log of several tons just with a pulley system. It doesn't turn you into Superman. It doesn't work like that.



Swajio said:


> A. There was clearly an axle involved as the log must have been swinging on something.



That was set like that for the trap if you didn't realized. The purpose was the log fell in the enemies. Don't you understand?. 



Swajio said:


> B. The log was clearly swinging on rope strong enough to support it, that same rope could have been used to raise the log along a system of pulleys.



Speculation. There is no hint about that in the manga. And that doesn't change that if Sakura has the strength of a regular human she still couldn't lift that log only with a pulley system. Don't you realize we aren't talking about a log of 800 lbs? Don't you?. It's physically impossible for a human lift several tons using him as the motor. You are talking about like you didn't apply a force at all in the pulley system. It reduce the force you use...yes....but it doesn't turn it into zero.....and certainly can't make you lift something absolutely out of human range like a log bigger than a elephant. If you have proof about that show us. 



Swajio said:


> Sakura is not a heavy-hitter in Naruto by any means pre-skip.



Can you even read?. If the other ninjas had the strength and durability of regular human they couldn't survive against guys like that. Sasuke could survive a direct impact from Jiroubo. Did he showed superstrength feats before the timeskip?....not.... but the facts guys like that can exist and doesn't turn anyone into a pulp is a proof of superior average ninja strength and durability. 

Don't you realize there is something called comparative strength?. Do you need to every single character of DBZ lift a rock of several tons as proof of superstrength?.



Swajio said:


> Sakura pre-skip only had a single fist fight with Ino, you can make no real link suggesting that she can compare with Narutoverse heavy hitters, she never even entered combat with one.



She could take hits from Zaku, who could take hits from Sasuke who could take hits from Jiroubo and Kyuubi Naruto. Don't you realize all the main characters have a sort of connection?. 



Swajio said:


> It's the same here plus you have a proof. Saying she used pulleys is just grasping straws.



Lol no. The burden of the proof is on you. You bring a concept that has never used or even suggested in the whole series....while the concept of superstrength...specially when there is nothing to deny it and she has a connection with super heavy hitters is pretty obvious.



Ulfgar said:


> In the Science museum in boston there is an exibit where 1/2 a ton is attached to a pulley system and I have seen kids younger than 12 pull up the weight. I have actually done it myself.
> 
> oh yeah here
> 
> you didn't learn this in school?



So 500 kilos can even compare with a log that is several times bigger than elephants? Lol. So Sakura made a pulley system around the whole Earth?...lol....please get real.  Do you know there is even a limit?
In practice, the more pulleys there are, the less efficient a system is. This is due to friction in the system where cable meets pulley and in the rotational mechanism of each pulley. So you can't just add infinite pulleys hoping you will reduce the needed force to a normal human strength. 



Swajio said:


> Look at the right side of the log. My interpretation of it is that the log is pretty hollow, further proof of this would be Dosu busting through it so easily when a root pulled up by Rock Lee took considerably less damage, not even breaking in half and being considerably smaller. That being said, the feat is really not that far out there, it probably took more strength than your average twelve year old would posses but a pulley really should have made that no big deal in the big picture of things.



In other words you lack of arguments and now you dare to question the quality of the log?. Amazing. 

The log pulled by Rock Lee was a surprise attack he couldn't see in time. The force there wasn't created to destroy the log but harm Lee. 

In the first case Dosu saw the log way before it hit him...so he could apply enough force to his blast.


----------



## Ippy (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Because it isn't teleportation...is just a sudden burst of speed just like shunshin.
> 
> Sasuke clearly use the word quickly (therefore there is a frame of time or he would just say instanteous) here and explain how the ninja takes someone near him to replace it with himself. In this case Naruto's clone. Kakashi took Naruto's clone...put it there and then he went to hide in the tree.
> 
> You can't change the fact ninjas are fast enough to grab something near like a tree or a clone faster than the eye can register....grabbing an object isn't instantaneous


...instead of just dodging?  

Why not use that same type of speed to *not* waste time by finding a tree, cutting out a log, putting it where their body was, casting a genjutsu on it, moving out of the way again... and instead dodge and speedblitz whoever it was that attacked them?



vagnard said:


> The funny thing here is nobody has given even a single decent reason about why should Sokka win instead they are trying to say why Sakura isn't so great...lol.


Because few, if any, of us actually feel Sokka would win. 

Like I stated before, most of us believe that Sakura has this... just not by speedblitz.


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## vagnard (Oct 22, 2007)

Haterade said:


> ...instead of just dodging?
> 
> Why not use that same type of speed to *not* waste time by finding a tree, cutting out a log, putting it where their body was, casting a genjutsu on it, moving out of the way again... and instead dodge and speedblitz whoever it was that attacked them?



I never said it was regular speed. It's speed...but it's a jutsu and requires seals most of the time like Sakura showed against Zaku. Within the jutsu you gain that burst of speed...it's the same with shunshin....why everyone isn't using shunshin if it's a basic jutsu?. Because they can't control well their movements during that bursts of speed unlike Sasuke. 



Haterade said:


> Because few, if any, of us actually feel Sokka would win.
> 
> Like I stated before, most of us believe that Sakura has this... just not by speedblitz.



So why don't change the title into "Could Sakura speedblitz Sokka if the answer is so obvious for all"?. 

Sakura has showed speed and agility well beyond Sokka jumping along the trees at enough speed she looks just like a blur. Sokka never showed speed above regular human. Hell...he doesn't even show speed of a peak human while Sakura can jump along the trees like she was running on the ground. 

It depends what do you understand by "speedblitz".... In my dictionary it's enough superior speed that doesn't let the opponent even to react. Not necesseraly that she will dissapear from Sokka's angle of sight. 

Like Lee vs Sasuke first fight. That's the amount of speed difference I see between them. Sakura could concentrate chakra in her feets and attack Ino faster than she could react. Sokka never showed the speed to attack a human from a few meters away before they can react.


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## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> First. Can you quote properly?. It's a pain in the ass answering you like this.
> 
> *This is my style of debating, it's easier and quicker for me this way, sorry for any inconvenience.*
> 
> ...


ten chracter limit


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> I never said it was regular speed. It's speed...but it's a jutsu and requires seals most of the time like Sakura showed against Zaku. Within the jutsu you gain that burst of speed...it's the same with shunshin....why everyone isn't using shunshin if it's a basic jutsu?. Because they can't control well their movements during that bursts of speed unlike Sasuke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How fast was that blur?


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## Tash (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard said:


> I never said it was regular speed. It's speed...but it's a jutsu and requires seals most of the time like Sakura showed against Zaku. Within the jutsu you gain that burst of speed...it's the same with shunshin....why everyone isn't using shunshin if it's a basic jutsu?. Because they can't control well their movements during that bursts of speed unlike Sasuke.
> *Already said why it's not speed.*
> 
> 
> ...



ten character



vagnard said:


> In other words you lack of arguments and now you dare to question the quality of the log?. Amazing.
> *I can see the inside of the log in the scan you posted.*
> The log pulled by Rock Lee was a surprise attack he couldn't see in time. The force there wasn't created to destroy the log but harm Lee.
> *Him smashing the root with his fist should have created enough vibration to shatter the root if it could shatter a whole section of tree trunk. Especially considering that to smash the log he only placed his hand on it and flicked the machine on his arm. He full on punched the root Lee lifted and I don't see why he would do less than his average attack on Lee.*
> In the first case Dosu saw the log way before it hit him...so he could apply enough force to his blast.



ten character


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## Ippy (Oct 22, 2007)

vagnard, for the love of god, _please_ stop double posting.  I've mentioned it in at least one or two other threads.

edit: You too, Swajio.





vagnard said:


> I never said it was regular speed. It's speed...but it's a jutsu and requires seals most of the time like Sakura showed against Zaku. Within the jutsu you gain that burst of speed...it's the same with shunshin....why everyone isn't using shunshin if it's a basic jutsu?. Because they can't control well their movements during that bursts of speed unlike Sasuke.


...which means that Kawarimi no jutsu shouldn't be used as 'evidence' as a viable speed feat, which was our point all along.



vagnard said:


> So why don't change the title into "Could Sakura speedblitz Sokka if the answer is so obvious for all"?.


Because that's not the name of the thread and also because just because few, if any, people are arguing that Sokka would win, it doesn't mean that someone else along the line won't come and bring up good points for Sokka's side.



vagnard said:


> Sakura has showed speed and agility well beyond Sokka jumping along the trees at enough speed she looks just like a blur. Sokka never showed speed above regular human. Hell...he doesn't even show speed of a peak human while Sakura can jump along the trees like she was running on the ground.
> 
> It depends what do you understand by "speedblitz".... In my dictionary it's enough superior speed that doesn't let the opponent even to react. Not necesseraly that she will dissapear from Sokka's angle of sight.
> 
> Like Lee vs Sasuke first fight. That's the amount of speed difference I see between them. Sakura could concentrate chakra in her feets and attack Ino faster than she could react. Sokka never showed the speed to attack a human from a few meters away before they can react.


Foot  speed =/= reaction speed.


----------



## Nihonjin (Oct 22, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Well, once the kunai has penetrated the cloth and stuck to a surface, it's up to the kunai and surface to keep the person up, not the thrower.



Look at the scan, he's not falling near any trees and if you look at how he's hanging from the tree, Sakura threw the kunai from the side, right?
Well, Orochimaru threw him away, but the kunai actual changed the direction he was flying in and carried him until it hit a tree. And even though carrying Narutos should've seriously reduced the speed it was traveling at, it still penetrated the tree deep enough to be able to support Naruto's weight. No regular human could possibly throw a knife _that_ hard.


----------



## zan (Oct 22, 2007)

Do you knwo how much a pulley can carry when it made right? I work in steal mills we had tons of tons of metal moving around with one or two people moving it because of the pulley system we made.  Moving a few hundered pound pulley system isn't a problem. A friend of mines is a logger and he does the same thing every day.


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## Chocochip (Oct 22, 2007)

All we know is Sakura makes blurs because of her speed while Sokka doesn't.


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## Dark Ascendant (Oct 22, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Show me Sakura actually lifting the log, and I'll accept that it is strength
> 
> Well, once the kunai has penetrated the cloth and stuck to a surface, it's up to the kunai and surface to keep the person up, not the thrower.



You're missing the point. She threw an ordinary kunai hard enough that it embedded itself into a tree with enough force to support the weight of a 12 year old.


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## Random Nobody (Oct 22, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> All we know is Sakura makes blurs because of her speed while Sokka doesn't.



Not true, we also know that speedlines are useless to base a characters speed off of, considering at one point Sakura will be a "blur" when she moves, but later when she goes faster then that she doesn't.


----------



## Ulfgar (Oct 22, 2007)

Dark Ascendant said:


> You're missing the point. She threw an ordinary kunai hard enough that it embedded itself into a tree with enough force to support the weight of a 12 year old.



But thats not all that quantifiable considering there are too many variables.


----------



## zan (Oct 22, 2007)

Show some real proof.. I already posted stuff from the anime which is a better canon then  manga cause you able to see what going on...In the anime she has shown normal speed and phy power... Beside those gags of naruto being sent off in to the sky.


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 22, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> All we know is Sakura makes blurs because of her speed while Sokka doesn't.



How fast are her "blurs"? The blurs mean nothing unless you know how fast she's going.



helpmenow316 said:


> Show some real proof.. I already posted stuff from the anime which is a better canon then  manga cause you able to see what going on...In the anime she has shown normal speed and phy power... Beside those gags of naruto being sent off in to the sky.




Anime = Not canon. Manga = Canon


----------



## Dark Ascendant (Oct 22, 2007)

Ulfgar said:


> But thats not all that quantifiable considering there are too many variables.



You've got to be kidding me. 

The big variables I see are: 

a.) Naruto's mass 
b.) the force with which Sakura's arm could throw a knife 
c.) the mass of the kunai
d.) distance from Sakura to Naruto

And all these variables add up to the conclusion that I really _don't_ want to play baseball if this girl's the pitcher for the other team.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Oct 23, 2007)

Or I really don't want to get hit with a sharp kunai.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 23, 2007)

Bender Ninja said:


> Or I really don't want to get hit with a sharp kunai.



Out of arguments ey?
The whole kunai thing kind of proves she's superhuman.


----------



## dahamire987 (Oct 23, 2007)

sokka will kill the hell otu of sakura


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 23, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> Out of arguments ey?
> The whole kunai thing kind of proves she's superhuman.



Uh, no it doesn't.  She may be above what a normal 12 year-old girl is, but that doesn't make her superhuman.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 23, 2007)

So you think a regular human could throw a kunai with that much strength?


----------



## Dark Ascendant (Oct 23, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> So you think a regular human could throw a kunai with that much strength?



Didn't you hear? Medical breakthrough. Bionic arms are extra cheap nowadays.


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> How fast are her "blurs"? The blurs mean nothing unless you know how fast she's going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


who the hell did you pull that out of? The anime and the manga are the same shit. It shows the same type of powers and limits..To each other...The only thing that isn't canon is the fillers of the anime because it didnt happen in manga. So yes the anime are canon.Which shows her moving in a avrage rate of speed. 

Also leaping from tree to tree isn't a speed feat there are people in this world is able to leap from building to building.

SPeed feats are what gai sasaka and gai has done.

She throw a knife and it got stuck to something..Its not a feat of super powers people are able to do it....Or did i miss something?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Oct 23, 2007)

Nihonjin said:


> So you think a regular human could throw a kunai with that much strength?



Trained, and with an extra-sharp kunai?  Yes, yes I do.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> who the hell did you pull that out of? The anime and the manga are the same shit. It shows the same type of powers and limits..To each other...The only thing that isn't canon is the fillers of the anime because it didnt happen in manga. So yes the anime are canon.Which shows her moving in a avrage rate of speed.
> 
> Also leaping from tree to tree isn't a speed feat there are people in this world is able to leap from building to building.
> 
> ...


Anime isn't canon. Ask anyone. Manga is the strongest canon.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> How fast was that blur?



Fast enough to be a blur instead of regular movement you can see. Can Sokka move like a blur?....no. Thank you. 



swajio said:


> This is my style of debating, it's easier and quicker for me this way, sorry for any inconvenience.



It only takes just one button in the reply window. It's not that hard and answer like a post like this is annoying. 



swajio said:


> An average human with one set pulley? No. But that log was far from a meteorite, and in a dense forest like that she could of set up a system that would make lifting the log nothing at all.



Prove it. Don't talk out of your ass please. That log is bigger than several elephants put together. You haven't even show a human lifting more than 1 ton with a pulley system. 



swajio said:


> The log was swinging, in order to swing you need something sturdy to swing from.



And how that proves it was a pulley system? 



swajio said:


> And it's not speculation that she climbed up the tree holding the log in one hand? If not please show me the scan where she does this.



A more accurate one...considering super strength is pretty much normal in this manga. Only using a bit of chakra post timeskip she could break giant boulders....and Kakashi stated already pre-timeskip she had perfect chakra control. We have seen ser her using chakra control to became faster (pre-timeskip)...so using it to became stronger isn't farfetched...certainly less farfetched that a pulley system we have never seen something similar like that in the whole manga. 



swajio said:


> You're applying that across the board, association fallacy.



No. Because there is association. Jiroubo attacked Sasuke who attacked Zaku who attacked Sakura. So they have connection. 




swajio said:


> There is a difference between durability and strength.



Therefore you admit Sokka would break his hand if she punched Sakura?. Pre-timeskip Sakura punched Naruto many times and she was capable to hurt him when he is able to tank Giant snakes attacks with his body. 



swajio said:


> Already said why it's not speed.



No. You haven't. There is time between the two points. There is displacement therefore it's speed. 



swajio said:


> I can see the inside of the log in the scan you posted.



So first you couldn't prove a theory about pulleys and now you try to grasp straw discreting the quality of the log. Nice. I see a perfect log there. Lol...Sakura using a hollow log as trap...so now she is totally stupid too? XD



swajio said:


> Her looking like "a blur" is going on speedlines



Mangakas use blur to show a high level of speed. If blur was exactly the same as regular speed he would make them just running. The fact Sokka never was showed with speed above average and no one has made a statement about his speed (unlike Ino saying "Fast!" before Sakura punched her) it's a solid evidence there is a difference between their speeds. 



swajio said:


> Depend on how much space is between them, I can't see her blitzing him before reaction from 20 paces away.



Sokka is a close range fighter...so there isn't much chance at all to fight to not be speedblitzed. If Sokka tries to makes this in a long range battle Sakura has the advantage too thanks to her ninja accuracy with kunais that's better than anything Sokka has showed until now with his boomerang (and kunais can kill). If she can hook the clothes of a falling Naruto in the middle of a desesperate situation I don't see any problem putting a kunai in the middle of Sokka's head.  



swajio said:


> Ino was at extremely close range as someone already suggested.



No. Look the page before that. There was at last 3 meters of difference between them. Sokka needs to be right next the opponent to do something. And he never attacked someone at that distance before the other guy could even react.



Haterade said:


> vagnard, for the love of god, _please_ stop double posting.  I've mentioned it in at least one or two other threads.



Stop double post?. It was a mistake, relax. It's not like it happened in every single post. 



Haterade said:


> which means that Kawarimi no jutsu shouldn't be used as 'evidence' as a viable speed feat, which was our point all along.



No. My point was it wasn't teleportation. I never said you could use kawamiri as proof of her regular speed. But certainly IS SPEED...a speed inside a jutsu. 



Haterade said:


> Because that's not the name of the thread and also because just because few, if any, people are arguing that Sokka would win, it doesn't mean that someone else along the line won't come and bring up good points for Sokka's side.



There is a point for Sokka's side when he is outclassed in every single category?  Because I have seen Avatar until the Beach and I still haven't seen something Sokka can do better than Sakura...maybe except war strategy. But Sakura is very intelligent too so it wouldn't make too much difference. 



Haterade said:


> Foot  speed =/= reaction speed.



Sakura outclasses him in reaction speed too. She could see the movements of Sasuke after he gained Lee's speed. She could react to move away from Oro's giant snakes and to evade Oro's fuuton.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

Someone asked me to post this.



			
				TheFourthNin said:
			
		

> Hey can you post me a favor?
> I'm getting major headaches from the sokka/sakura thread
> Facepalm is not good for your health
> Anywho, there is only one thing I owuld like you to post about that
> ...


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> Someone asked me to post this.



Your friend knows you can regulate force?. I doubt Sasuke would stab himself to pass through his whole leg. And certainly Sakura would be careful enough to not kill Naruto. 

Iruka didn't died becuase the fathal kunais hit his ninja chunnin vest. If they use it then it must be because it's more resistant than normal. At last to endure regular attacks from other ninjas.


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> Anime isn't canon. Ask anyone. Manga is the strongest canon.


how so?  The only differn between the manga and the anime is that you can SEE how fast they move.  Also alittle speed lines show you nothing to the speed they are going. 

Give me proof that the anime isn't canon and not what people think give me someone in the animation tell me that its not canon. It is a canon because what happens in the book happen in the show they have the same powerlevel and its the same fucking people the same fucking storyline.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> how so?  The only differn between the manga and the anime is that you can SEE how fast they move.  Also alittle speed lines show you nothing to the speed they are going.
> 
> Give me proof that the anime isn't canon and not what people think give me someone in the animation tell me that its not canon. It is a canon because what happens in the book happen in the show they have the same powerlevel and its the same fucking people the same fucking storyline.



The same thing doesn't always happen in the manga as the anime. This is why we use the manga only.

That simple


----------



## Nihonjin (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> how so?  The only differn between the manga and the anime is that you can SEE how fast they move.  Also alittle speed lines show you nothing to the speed they are going.
> 
> Give me proof that the anime isn't canon and not what people think give me someone in the animation tell me that its not canon. It is a canon because what happens in the book happen in the show they have the same powerlevel and its the same fucking people the same fucking storyline.



The original creator (Kishi) doesn't have anything to do with the anime.
Because of that the way the anime handles things might be completely different from how Kishi had visioned it, so its not canon.


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

It doesnt matter. They have been any proof that sakura has super speed in the manga if there was they would show it in the anime. Am pretty sure they would go talk to kishi about the powers levels they dealing with speed ...etc. The anime and manga are to close not to.


----------



## Chocochip (Oct 23, 2007)

If 1st Hokage did the darkness jutsu in the manga, they would show in the anime...OH WAIT...they gave it to 2nd hokage. What is your point?


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

That doesnt really have to do with anything.They have been no proof in the manga for a super fast sakura.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> That doesnt really have to do with anything.They have been no proof in the manga for a super fast sakura.



Manga = Main source of canon. Whatever happened in the anime has no bearing on the manga


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

lol ok in the manga where did it show that she is super fast. Where did anyone say OMFG SHE FAST or anything. There is no proof to show that she can speed blizts anyone.  They show speed lines after they jumped away or they show speed line on the side... Hell my fat ass would run and someone draw it they will show speed line. It doesnt show how fast or slow you going. It just to show that something is moving faster then walking speed.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol ok in the manga where did it show that she is super fast. Where did anyone say OMFG SHE FAST or anything. There is no proof to show that she can speed blizts anyone.  They show speed lines after they jumped away or they show speed line on the side... Hell my fat ass would run and someone draw it they will show speed line. It doesnt show how fast or slow you going. It just to show that something is moving faster then walking speed.



In the moment she moved like a blur when no regular human can do that. You don't need a measure of speed. You only need to know she moves so fast that she can look like a blur. If she wasn't faster than her regular speed there then Kishimoto would make her running like she normally does. It's not rocket science...really. People should stop trying to grasp straws. 

She was doing something that Sokka or any avatar character can't even dream to do.

By the way. You asked when someone in the manga stated she was moving fast. 

Please...see this.


----------



## potential (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol ok in the manga where did it show that she is super fast. Where did anyone say OMFG SHE FAST or anything. There is no proof to show that she can speed blizts anyone.  They show speed lines after they jumped away or they show speed line on the side... Hell my fat ass would run and someone draw it they will show speed line. It doesnt show how fast or slow you going. It just to show that something is moving faster then walking speed.



You are just talking outta your ass now.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> In the moment she moved like a blur when no regular human can do that. You don't need a measure of speed. You only need to know she moves so fast that she can look like a blur. If she wasn't faster than her regular speed there then Kishimoto would make her running like she normally does. It's not rocket science...really. People should stop trying to grasp straws.
> 
> She was doing something that Sokka or any avatar character can't even dream to do.
> 
> ...



How fast is she moving?


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> How fast is she moving?



Fast enough to make Ino comment about it and she couldn't even react against it. Has someone commented something about Sokka's speed ever....in a universe of regular level people in terms of physical atributes?

So...Sokka never received a praise for his speed in a universe of regular people. Therefore he isn't even peak human because he hasn't even showed it. 

Here Ino who is a ninja and has seen regular ninja speed comment Sakura's speed was fast and she couldn't even react against it.

According to your logic Sasuke, Lee or Gai couldn't speedblitz Sokka too because we haven't heard a real measure of their respective speed.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Fast enough to make Ino comment about it and she couldn't even react against it. Has someone commented something about Sokka's speed ever....in a universe of regular level people in terms of physical atributes?
> 
> So...Sokka never received a praise for his speed in a universe of regular people. Therefore he isn't even peak human because he hasn't even showed it.
> 
> ...



Because the speed could be any number and any speed you give me would be one you pulled out of your ass.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> Because the speed could be any number and any speed you give me would be one you pulled out of your ass.



Lol. Answer me....according to you: Sasuke, Lee or Gai can't speedblitz Sokka?


----------



## Chocochip (Oct 23, 2007)

Considering the fact Ino tree jumps well too...we have a winner.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Lol. Answer me....according to you: Sasuke, Lee or Gai can't speedblitz Sokka?



I already answered you


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> I already answered you



No. You haven't. You just stated there was no way to figure a character was faster than other unless we are given a number. Do you realize how stupid that statement is?. 

Please...I ask you again. Can Gai, Sasuke or Lee speedblitz Sokka?.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> No. You haven't. You just stated there was no way to figure a character was faster than other unless we are given a number. Do you realize how stupid that statement is?.
> 
> Please...I ask you again. Can Gai, Sasuke or Lee speedblitz Sokka?.



The statement is based in fact. 

Tell me how fast Gai is?

Tell me how fast Sasuke is? 

Tell me how fast Lee is?

You can't


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

The scan isnt a speed feat.Its a clone feat. Ino didnt get confuse because of her speed she got confused because she didnt know which one was sakura. That was it Its not a speed feat.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> The scan isnt a speed feat.Its a clone feat. Ino didnt get confuse because of her speed she got confused because she didnt know which one was sakura. That was it Its not a speed feat.



No. She claimed Sakura was fast. Not that she was confused. It was a straigth attack. She wasn't attacked from behind. Even with 3 clones she  still should be able to jump backwards and retreat.


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> No. You haven't. You just stated there was no way to figure a character was faster than other unless we are given a number. Do you realize how stupid that statement is?.
> 
> Please...I ask you again. Can Gai, Sasuke or Lee speedblitz Sokka?.


Yes they can because they shown in the manga and in the ANIME  how fast they are.Also they point it out that each of them are pretty fast.

Sakura has no point in the preskip or after that have ever said she is fast. If she was fast she could of take out those puppets a hell of allot easyer then she did.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> The statement is based in fact.
> 
> Tell me how fast Gai is?
> 
> ...



I asked you first. Tell me if you believe any of them can speedblitz Sokka. Then I will answer you. Don't evade the question.



helpmenow316 said:


> Yes they can because they shown in the manga and in the ANIME  how fast they are.Also they point it out that each of them are pretty fast.



And please tell me. How you know how fast they are if we aren't given a number about their speed? How you can say they can speedblitz Sokka?



helpmenow316 said:


> Sakura has no point in the preskip or after that have ever said she is fast. If she was fast she could of take out those puppets a hell of allot easyer then she did.



Ino said she was fast in that instance and she couldn't react against her attack.


----------



## Chocochip (Oct 23, 2007)

I like Ino's tree jumping feat better than Sokka's 5 feet wall climbing feat. I like Ino's reaction to being able to avoid branches more than Sokka fighting an old man. That being said, Ino still got pwned right there.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> I asked you first. Tell me if you believe any of them can speedblitz Sokka. Then I will answer you. Don't evade the question.



I refuse. Now anwser my question.

Tell me how fast Gai is?

Tell me how fast Sasuke is?

Tell me how fast Lee is?


----------



## Chocochip (Oct 23, 2007)

You say anime should show if Sakura is fast or not. In the anime, she used Bushins, and in the manga she didnt. The anime is non canon and irrelevent if the manga is the original source.


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> I refuse. Now anwser my question.
> 
> Tell me how fast Gai is?
> 
> ...


Its easy all 3 of them move faster then a normal person can see. They attack the same person fast enough that they coudnt be seen. Also for lee he moves fast enough to hit gaara something no one was able to do before. Which means he is faster then a normal person or a normal ninja..


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> Its easy all 3 of them move faster then a normal person can see. They attack the same person fast enough that they coudnt be seen. Also for lee he moves fast enough to hit gaara something no one was able to do before. Which means he is faster then a normal person or a normal ninja..



But there isn't a number attached to any of those speed feats, so we don't know exactly how fast they were going.

Just that they were going fast.


vagnard said:


> What are you talking about?. I claimed Ino said Sakura was fast. It's right there in the left superior panel. You are the one who claimed she was confused when you have no proof about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't concede.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> But there isn't a number attached to any of those speed feats, so we don't know exactly how fast they were going.
> 
> Just that they were going fast.
> 
> ...



Yeah. You did. You couldn't answer me because you know it would destroy your whole argument. Nice way to evade the question and hide your shame.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Yeah. You did. You couldn't answer me because you know it would destroy your whole argument. Nice way to evade the question and hide your shame.



I didn't concede and I have no shame. You don't decide for me when I concede. 

You should concede.

Tell me how fast Gai is?

Tell me how fast Sasuke is?

Tell me how fast Lee is?


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

thegoodjae said:


> You say anime should show if Sakura is fast or not. In the anime, she used Bushins, and in the manga she didnt. The anime is non canon and irrelevent if the manga is the original source.



Ummm she didnt use clone in the fight with ino???? In the manga????? What do you call this???





Also that shows that ino was trying to find out which one was the real one. But wasnt able to... 

I find it funny how people post only half scan and call it a speedfeat.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> I didn't concede and I have no shame. You don't decide for me when I concede.
> 
> You should concede.
> 
> ...



You did. I asked first and you didn't answer because you know you are wrong. I glad you can realize that and admit it in an indirect way. That's not too brave but you did it...the intention is important too. Thanks.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> You did. I asked first and you didn't answer because you know you are wrong. I glad you can realize that and admit it in an indirect way. That's not too brave but you did it...the intention is important too. Thanks.


I didn't concede. You are afraid of answering the question and being wrong.

I didn't anwser yours because it was a trap.

It's normal to fear Rild, concede already


Tell me how fast Gai is?

Tell me how fast Sasuke is?

Tell me how fast Lee is?


----------



## zan (Oct 23, 2007)

sakura speed and there has nothing to do with each other. They have stated in the manga how fast they are.They never even gave any hint that she is fast in the manga. If they did it would be shown in the anime.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> I didn't concede. You are afraid of answering the question and being wrong.
> 
> I didn't anwser yours because it was a trap.
> 
> ...



It's nice to know you are admiting it with every new post you make it. Thank you son. It's nice from your part. I'll gladly will take your fear to answer as "you are right". Thank you. 

But I'm worried about you.....if it's that hard to you grasp the concept of speed I wonder what you do when you walk on the street and a car come close to you. How you know when it's dangerous is the only references are "blurs", "speedlines" and the comments of other people?. I guess you wouldn't even jump if someone shout you it's going fast.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> It's nice to know you are admiting it with every new post you make it. Thank you son. It's nice from your part. I'll gladly will take your fear to answer as "you are right". Thank you.



You are delusional,kid. You think you've won but you well on your way to defeat.

You've yet to prove Sakura's speed or strength. The insanity of defeat is that powerful eh?


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> sakura speed and there has nothing to do with each other. They have stated in the manga how fast they are.They never even gave any hint that she is fast in the manga. If they did it would be shown in the anime.



The manga showed Ino claiming Sakura was fast and she couldn't react against the attack. Just like Lee, Gai and Sasuke has been called "fast" by their opponents and they moved before they can react. 

There is no difference except for stubborn people who can accept Sokka has no chance in terms of speed.


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 23, 2007)

vagnard said:


> The manga showed Ino claiming Sakura was fast and she couldn't react against the attack. Just like Lee, Gai and Sasuke has been called "fast" by their opponents and they moved before they can react.
> 
> There is no difference except for stubborn people who can accept Sokka has no chance in terms of speed.



If they are so fast, then tell me their exact speed. It should be easy if it's true


----------



## vagnard (Oct 23, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> You are delusional,kid. You think you've won but you well on your way to defeat.
> 
> You've yet to prove Sakura's speed or strength. The insanity of defeat is that powerful eh?



Oh...I already proven Sakura is fast. It's the same reason because people like Sasuke, Lee and Gai are considered fast but because it's a feat of Sakura you dismiss it. Nice double standard. 

Nice way to trying to evade the point. People bring proof about Sakura's speed but you only dismiss it and you still don't explain why Sokka could keep with Sakura's speed.



Giovanni Rild said:


> If they are so fast, then tell me their exact speed.



Because people with supernatural physical atributes like dissapearing and apprearing behind other people or jumping between trees and several meters like nothing state they are fast and they have been showed moving faster than people can react just like Sakura did it. Has Sokka moved faster than a guy can react?. Thank you.

It's funny how every time you deny the answer to my question about these guys speedblitzing Sokka you make more evident how stupid your statement is. According to that logic Luffy or any character of One Piece shouldn't be considered faster than Sokka because their speeds aren't given too. Lol

There is something called logic my friend.

You can't judge nothing with your eyes?. Are you a robot? Lol


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 24, 2007)

vagnard said:


> Oh...I already proven Sakura is fast. It's the same reason because people like Sasuke, Lee and Gai are considered fast but because it's a feat of Sakura you dismiss it. Nice double standard.
> 
> Nice way to trying to evade the point. People bring proof about Sakura's speed but you only dismiss it and you still don't explain why Sokka could keep with Sakura's speed.



No you don't know how fast she's going. If you know how fast she's going then tell me and be done with it.



vagnard said:


> Because people say they are fast and they have been showed faster than people can react just like Sakura did it. Has Sokka moved faster than a guy can react?. Thank you.



Doesn't matter. Sokka's speed isn't in question, Sakura's is. Tell me her speed or concede


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

vagnard said:


> What are you talking about?. I claimed Ino said Sakura was fast. It's right there in the left superior panel. You are the one who claimed she was confused when you have no proof about it.
> 
> .


No that was ino. see there isn't a word bubble forum or a thought. It is just ther to help explain the action of what is going on..There is nothing that says she is super fast or fast or anything.... Also when people say exploded off the ground it means she did a quick leap in to the air or a jump with allot of force. Not a speed feat.



vagnard said:


> Oh...I already proven Sakura is fast. It's the same reason because people like Sasuke, Lee and Gai are considered fast but because it's a feat of Sakura you dismiss it. Nice double standard.
> 
> Nice way to trying to evade the point. People bring proof about Sakura's speed but you only dismiss it and you still don't explain why Sokka could keep with Sakura's speed.


You havent explained anything you posted a scan which i just disproved..


Also the reasons why we know that lee is fast..


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> No you don't know how fast she's going. If you know how fast she's going then tell me and be done with it.




So according to you there is no way to say someone is faster than other unless a number is given?. Lol. You know that isn't true. Don't be silly. 



Giovanni Rild said:


> Doesn't matter. Sokka's speed isn't in question, Sakura's is. Tell me her speed or concede



Lol. Of course Sokka's speed is in question. We aren't saying Sakura is fast compared to Gai or Sasuke. We are stating she is fast in relation with Sokka. So of course his speed matters here. That's the point of his thread. 



helpmenow316 said:


> No that was ino. see there isn't a word bubble forum or a thought. It is just ther to help explain the action of what is going on..There is nothing that says she is super fast or fast or anything.... Also when people say exploded off the ground it means she did a quick leap in to the air or a jump with allot of force. Not a speed feat.



Lol. What are you talking about. 

_Sakura: All chakra to my feet and explode off the ground (so Sakura is charging chakra in her feets for decoration? She isn't jumping there...she is charging straight to Ino. lol). 

Ino: Fast!. 
_
There is nothing to deny here. It was an obvious speed feat. 



helpmenow316 said:


> You havent explained anything you posted a scan which i just disproved..



You haven't disproven anything. In fact you just admitted you were wrong when stated you considered Lee, Gai and Sasuke fast exactly for the same reasons I'm claiming Sakura was moving fast there.

What Sakura did there is exactly what Sasuke did here...charging chakra into his feets to gain more speed.


*Spoiler*: __ 









After doing that Sasuke says "you are pretty slow...from now on you won't be able to evade my attacks". Clearly saying it was his speed the stat he increased. 

It's funny...even that chapter is named "Speed"


----------



## Giovanni Rild (Oct 24, 2007)

vagnard said:


> So according to you there is no way to say someone is faster than other unless a number is given?. Lol. You know that isn't true. Don't be silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you saying you can't prove Sakura's speed? None of the Naruto characters's speed can be proven because no one was watching them with a speedometer at the time of the feat.

 I do want to play WoW before the night's over and not waste anymore time here.


----------



## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 24, 2007)

WOW I am gonna wait for about 5 more avatar episodes for when sokka becomes "equal" to everyone


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

vagnard said:


> So according to you there is no way to say someone is faster than other unless a number is given?. Lol. You know that isn't true. Don't be silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol ok then it wa sa leap whatever its not a speed feat.  If it was they would of had people say holy shit you fast like they did with lee .Which they didn't...Yes she leaped off the floor..but they never showed her or said anytihng about storing anything in to her feet. They just show her starting to leap or run ...doesnt matter not a speed feat

Even if it was it wasnt a good enough since no one said anything about it. So like  said its not a speed feat no one said anything about speed.

Also compared to him he was slow. Also that was before he learned how to be fast from lee and teach...


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> Are you saying you can't prove Sakura's speed? None of the Naruto characters's speed can be proven because no one was watching them with a speedometer at the time of the feat.



We don't know the exact speed of nearly anyone in the manga or anime. According to your logic we shouldn't be able to compare the speed of nobody. That's why exist visual measures, feats and statements. So you can infere who is faster than other. 

Can Sokka jump between trees like nothing?. No
Can Sokka increase his regular normal human speed with chakra or some boost?. No.
Can Sokka attack a person with supernatural physical abilities and make her claim he is fast?.No
Can Sokka attack faster than someone can  react? No. 

You are missing the whole point of this discussion. Nobody here is saying Sakura is moving at sound speed or light speed. We are saying she could move faster than Sokka can react because she already did against a person with enhanced physical atributes while Sokka never showed any speed feat or speed even amazing for a regular human.

That's all. 



Giovanni Rild said:


> I do want to play WoW before the night's over and not waste anymore time here.
> 
> 
> Good Night. I hope you play better than you argue.


----------



## Vicious (Oct 24, 2007)

vagnard, he wants calculations i think.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol ok then it wa sa leap whatever its not a speed feat.  If it was they would of had people say holy shit you fast like they did with lee .Which they didn't...Yes she leaped off the floor..but they never showed her or said anytihng about storing anything in to her feet. They just show her starting to leap or run ...doesnt matter not a speed feat



Lol no. She just charged straigth to her after she charged chakra on her feets and Ino claimed she was fast and she couldn't react at all. Please...don't grasp to straws....seriously.  

Sakura moved from point A to point B before Ino could react....and fast enough to be called fast by Ino. Therefore it's a speed feat. 



helpmenow316 said:


> lEven if it was it wasnt a good enough since no one said anything about it. So like  said its not a speed feat no one said anything about speed.



That's irrelevant. We aren't talking if she if as fast or faster than other fast characters. We are talking how fast she is compared to Sokka who never showed the speed to move faster than someone can react....and has never been called fast in the whole series. So it's doesn't matter at all if Gai or Kakashi doesn't aren't impressed by that speed. All it matters is the fact she is fast enough to move faster than a trained ninja like Ino can react to the point make her claim she was fast. If Sokka doesn't have a speed feat and nobody has commented his speed at all you have no basis to claim he could react to Sakura who could react faster than a trained ninja girl who considered her fast and she see people with speed above average humans all the time. 



helpmenow316 said:


> lAlso compared to him he was slow. Also that was before he learned how to be fast from lee and teach...



Zabuza...a jounin expert in silent killing with speed to rival Kakashi claimed Haku was fast. Then Sasuke surpass that speed using exactly the same feat as Sakura did (and Sakura has better chakra control than Sasuke). 

Seriously it isn't rocket science.



Eiris said:


> vagnard, he wants calculations i think.



I can't give calculations. Because there aren't numbers. My point is exactly that  sometimes you must think logically and take in account other factors like visual feats, comparisson with other characters and statement. 

Otherwise we couldn't compare nearly most of the manga or anime characters at all because they never give exact speed.  

But of course if I see a ninja moving faster than someone can react or someone dissapearing from other guy sight I will assume they are moving at speed beyond human because no human can do that.

Did we have the speed of Bleach or One Piece in terms of numbers?. No. But it's pretty much accepted these universes are faster than Naruto. Because their feats show it. 

Byakuya was on the top of a building and he moved so fast that he suddenly appeared next to Renji in the next panel who was on the ground. We don't know the time frame between the 2 events...but we know that's insane speed. And I wouldn't question they aren't faster than Naruto's characters. The reason is because we never have seen them be able to perfom a feat like that.


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

where did she say that sakura is fast show me and ill will agree. you said that where it said exploding off the ground was ino but it wasnt it just a caption.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 24, 2007)

All of you have been arguing on this thread to long time to move onto the Peter vs Ichigo thread 

Sokka has no feats good enough to even be peak human yet so wait an episode or 2 before continuing this argument


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> where did she say that sakura is fast show me and ill will agree. you said that where it said explioding off the ground was ino but it wasnt it just a caption.



I can't believe i have to do this....

Now you will say you need a bubble?. You know that's the way manga's authors show when people are thinking right?. Just like Sakura thought in the first panel "i have to gather chakra to my feet"


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

lol speed line only show motion not super speed. It shows that she is running nothing of it shows that she is moving super fast or anything..Trust me i know these things.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol speed line only show motion not super speed. It shows that she is running nothing of it shows that she is moving super fast or anything..Trust me i know these things.



Lol. What speed lines?. Look the damn red rectangle. 

Ino is thinking: Fast.


----------



## mystictrunks (Oct 24, 2007)

Ino isn't the best character to judge speed by. She's never been fast.


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

or mybe it just a editor caption...  

Ok am going to tell you what i think a speed feat should be. A person moving to fast to be able to see with your eyes or atless fast enough to be able to have some problem keeping up with them with your eyes... Thats what a speed feat is. It doesnt show how fast she really going..Seeing that ino can see her running to her shows her she not even that fast. 

Show me her moving at speeds of lee or one of them then she can do speed feats... 

Also it says fast not super fast or anything like that.


----------



## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

mystictrunks said:


> Ino isn't the best character to judge speed by. She's never been fast.



She is fast enough to move jumping between trees like nothing. That's far beyond regular human speed like Sokka has. And a character like that consider that attack was fast.

People should stop using Gai as measure stick here. 

We are comparing here Sakura with a clumsy fighter who isn't even considered fast in his universe of people with regular physical atributes. Therefore he isn't even peak human. While a peak human can't jump between trees like nothing or looking like a blur when them move fast or increase their speed with supernatural ways like chakra moving faster than other person with speed faster than regular human can react.


----------



## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

oh i dont care about the fight...Cause i knopw sakura would prob kill him... If he doesnt have prep time... 

I already said that before .. I just want to see all this speed feat you talking about..

Also the ability to jump far is impressive but not enough to give her speed feats seeing that everyone in naruto world is able to do that..  Plus there are people in this reality that is able to jump roof tops to roof tops.

Also am not using gai speed as a refernces..Its just what i would think of when it comes to real speed in comic books..You have to have your speed pretty freaking high to have any idea what real speed is.


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## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> or mybe it just a editor caption...



Lol no. It isn't. It's a thought. 

This is a caption showing a noise effect. 



When words are showed without bubbles it means a thought. 



Jeez...this look like Kindergarden here. 



helpmenow316 said:


> Ok am going to tell you what i think a speed feat should be. A person moving to fast to be able to see with your eyes or atless fast enough to be able to have some problem keeping up with them with your eyes... Thats what a speed feat is. It doesnt show how fast she really going..Seeing that ino can see her running to her shows her she not even that fast.
> 
> Show me her moving at speeds of lee or one of them then she can do speed feats...



Lol. Who is claiming here she can move superfast compared to fastest guys in Narutoverse?. Of course Lee or any fast ninja can beat her ass in terms of speed. We aren't saying Sakura is a fast ninja. We are saying that any ninja is above the speed showed by avatar characters based on their feats. Sakura is fast compared *TO SOKKA* who has never showed even amazing speed for a regular human. 

Here we are talking about people who jump between trees like nothing, move so fast that they look like a blur and can increase their speed with chakra. 

So can you stop saying "lol...Sakura isn't as fast as Lee" because nobody is arguing that here. Did you read the title?. It's Sakura vs *SOKKA*

Sakura is a ninja who moves way faster than regular humans. Lee is a ninja who moves way faster than regular ninjas. That's the difference. 



helpmenow316 said:


> Also it says fast not super fast or anything like that.



That's enough. It's considered fast by a fellow ninja who has physical atributes beyond Sokka...the guy who is the center of this discussion. 

There is a thing called relativism. 

Just because Mike Tyson can't beat Superman it doesn't mean he can't beat our asses.


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 24, 2007)

You still don't know how fast she is


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

it not about her beoing fast.. it for the fact that the condition  narutovers  is allot more then what they showed in avatuni .. also the training is a hell allot more intence..Plus the clones would cause some problems too..but it will not be a speed blits because she doesnt move that fast...

Now if sokka had prep time  to figure out ways to get around those..And to be able to site up some way to get her off guard or sick or something...Something that has to do with stink...he like stink.



vagnard said:


> Lol no. It isn't. It's a thought.
> 
> This is a caption showing a noise effect.
> 
> ...



the fact is she not going to be speed blits anyone one. Ok so even if ino said she running fast that doesnt prove anything that a normal person who had the right training cant do. When am talking about speed feats am talking about shit thats more impressive then that.. 

Also coming from a world where people can use currents to fly around the power to breath fire and bend fire earth ..etc.. Sokka isnt a noob about fighting people who should be able to over power him. 

Yes be realistic in narutovers she isnt fast. She is about normal speed for a girl her age.


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## Basilikos (Oct 24, 2007)

LOL what a great thread. Sakura clearly takes this with ease. Sokka is a normal human. Sakura is a trained ninja that can become a blur.

Speedblitz delivered by Sakura and Sokka dies.

[/thread]


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## Giovanni Rild (Oct 24, 2007)

Basilikos said:


> LOL what a great thread. Sakura clearly takes this with ease. Sokka is a normal human. Sakura is a trained ninja that can become a blur.
> 
> Speedblitz delivered by Sakura and Sokka dies.
> 
> [/thread]



How fast is that blur? Do you even know?


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## Vicious (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> the fact is she not going to be speed blits anyone one. Ok so even if ino said she running fast that doesnt prove anything that a normal person who had the right training cant do. When am talking about speed feats am talking about shit thats more impressive then that..
> 
> Also coming from a world where people can use currents to fly around the power to breath fire and bend fire earth ..etc.. Sokka isnt a noob about fighting people who should be able to over power him.
> 
> Yes be realistic in narutovers she isnt fast. *She is about normal speed for a girl her age.*


You must be joking.


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## piccun? (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> How fast is that blur? Do you even know?



Fact is, when Sakura attacks Sokka, he will only see a blur and get speedblitzed


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## vagnard (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> You still don't know how fast she is



Fast enough to be a blur for Sokka who will be speedblitzed if she charges chakra in her feet and attack him before he can react.  As simple as that. Stop trolling. 



helpmenow316 said:


> it not about her beoing fast.. it for the fact that the condition narutovers is allot more then what they showed in avatuni .. also the training is a hell allot more intence..Plus the clones would cause some problems too..but it will not be a speed blits because she doesnt move that fast...



Lol. You make no sense. What has to do how hard is the training with this battle?. She is faster enough to move faster than another ninja who has showed better speed feats than Sokka.  



helpmenow316 said:


> Now if sokka had prep time to figure out ways to get around those..And to be able to site up some way to get her off guard or sick or something...Something that has to do with stink...he like stink.



Lol...What?. What has to do prep time with speed?. Shikamaru becames faster with prep time?. 



helpmenow316 said:


> the fact is she not going to be speed blits anyone one. Ok so even if ino said she running fast that doesnt prove anything that a normal person who had the right training cant do. When am talking about speed feats am talking about shit thats more impressive then that..



Yes. She is gonna speedblitz Sokka who is the guy in discussion here. Just like she would speedblitz you and me. Are you capable to jump between trees like nothing? Are you able to boost your speed with chakra?. Are you able to lift a giant log? Are you able to move like a blur?. Are you able to throw a kunai with perfect accuracy to catch the clothes of a guy who is falling?. 




helpmenow316 said:


> Also coming from a world where people can use currents to fly around the power to breath fire and bend fire earth ..etc.. Sokka isnt a noob about fighting people who should be able to over power him.



Lol. Sokka IS a noob. That's what the whole point of the episode "Sokka's master". He said he is the regular guy of the group. You realize that unlike Sakura he doesn't have any special ability?. Sakura is a weak supernatural ninja. Sokka is a regular guy. A strong guy of our world could take down Sokka easily. 



helpmenow316 said:


> Yes be realistic in narutovers she isnt fast.



Lol. She isn't fast in Narutoverse because these guys *ARE SUPERHUMAN IN TERMS OF PHYSICAL ATRIBUTES. *. Beside bending Avatar characters are peak human at best. They never moved faster than the eye can see or a guy could react or enhance their speed with a supernatural energy. The only guy who can move faster is Aang using Air Bending. (but that isn't a physical ability). 



helpmenow316 said:


> She is about normal speed for a girl her age.



Lol. Don't be silly. Do you know a girl who can jump between several trees like nothing?. Jump several meters in the air?. Move like a blur?. A girl able to boost her speed magically with chakra?. Even the best athetle of our world couldn't do things like that. So your statement about "a normal speed for a girl of her age" makes no sense. 

Please show me a 12 year old girl from real world capable to move like this. In fact...show any real person moving like this.


*Spoiler*: __ 











Lol. Just look the last page. They look like a blur and they move so fast that produce shockwaves of wind that move the grass.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> The statement is based in fact.
> 
> Tell me how fast Gai is?
> 
> ...



So you're saying Sokka can't be speed blitzed by those people because we don't know their exact speed?



helpmenow316 said:


> Yes be realistic in narutovers she isnt fast. *She is about normal speed for a girl her age*.



You've got to be kidding me.
Do you think regular humans can outrun Sakura?
Again, the tree jumping feat alone should be enough to prove she's above regular human speed.

Before you all go "Its not a speed feat, its a strength feat" you should realise that the only reason people say that is because it requires a certain amount of leg muscle to be able to propel yourself at high enough speeds to be able to make a jump like that.


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## Wuzzman (Oct 24, 2007)

The only reason Sakura beats Sokka is because of speedblitz. That is annoying. The next time you make an avatar vs naruto thread make the speeds equal so we might have a SKILL battle and not a "ZOMG THEY SPEEDBLITZ EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE INFERIOR COMBAT ABILITIES!!!"


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## Nihonjin (Oct 24, 2007)

Even if she couldn't speedblitz Sokka he'd still be screwed.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

Eiris said:


> You must be joking.



in her world she is. 

Plus like i said before sakura has no speed feats in her past at all.  Yes compare to a normal human she is fast but compared to ninja's she not. 


Also with prep time it give him a way to trap her trip her up or give him a fighting chances. He is a very smart guy when it comes to traps and fighting strategies.


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## Sasaki Kojirō (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> in her world she is.
> 
> Plus like i said before sakura has no speed feats in her past at all.  Yes compare to a normal human she is fast but compared to ninja's she not.
> 
> ...



What a terrible argument.  So what if she's the norm for Naruto characters? She's still above a peak human easily.  Don Krieg is weak compared to many One Piece characters..I guess that makes him weak compared to a regular human.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

lol...Yes she is normal in naruto vers ..She doesnt show any true speed feats she not fast.She has normal feats of a normal ninja in her age.

Am not saying that he will beat her..Am just saying that she has no real speed feats so she will not speed blizts him. Because in order to speed blists someone you have to be fast.


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## Hale (Oct 24, 2007)

> You still don't know how fast she is


It doesn't matter how fast she is If you drive by me while i'm pedaling my bicycle I won't know how fast your going but i know damn well I can't catch you.


> lol...Yes she is normal in naruto verse ..She doesnt show any true speed feats she not fast.She has normal feats of a normal ninja in her age.


Normal Speed for ninja blitz Sokka That's what your not getting here


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

who says it will???  sokka is able to doge rocks fire water....etc..  Which prob moves a hell allot faster then sakura,


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## Wuzzman (Oct 24, 2007)

Without "ZOMG SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDBLITZ" Sakura gets her head lopped off by sokka period.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

which sakura doenst have.


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## Basilikos (Oct 24, 2007)

Giovanni Rild said:


> How fast is that blur? Do you even know?


Does it matter? No, it doesn't. If Sakura can become nothing more than a blur to a regular human which Sokka is then it's pretty straight forward that she could speedblitz him. She's faster, stronger, and far better trained. Sokka dies within seconds.

This is not hard to grasp.

It would seem people here are so used to Narutoverse characters losing in so many matchups that when the Narutoverse chars do face opponents they can beat easily, people refuse to acknowledge it.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

she never became a blurr..thats kinda of the problem.


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## Wuzzman (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> which sakura doenst have.



she does...you be a dumbass if you think base naruto verse isn't faster then avatar............take away sakura speed and you get a head being lopped off my sokka.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

just because someone is faster doesnt mean they going to use it in a fight or have away to use the speed in thee fight.  Sakura pre time skip have barrly any fighting exp. She only fought like two time in the manga's if i remember right..And in both time it ether ended up fighting some one just as sad as she was or someone who just kicked her ass pretty badly.

All her speed adv shows is that she able to run away.


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## Basilikos (Oct 24, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> she never became a blurr..thats kinda of the problem.


Last panel.




As I already said, this is not hard to grasp. Sakura speedblitzes.


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## Ippy (Oct 24, 2007)

Although I believe that Sakura isn't speedblitzing Sokka... saying she's normal human in anything is inaccurate at best.

Pretty much every Narutoverse ninja is > peak humans in every category. 

And the reason that I don't believe Sakura would be able to blitz Sokka despite having the obvious advantage in foot speed, is because foot speed =/= reaction speed.



			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> Stop double post?. It was a mistake, relax. It's not like it happened in every single post.


You just did it again... and again... and again.

After back reading, I can see at least four more instances of you double posting.

Make good use of the edit function.



			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> No. My point was it wasn't teleportation. I never said you could use kawamiri as proof of her regular speed. But certainly IS SPEED...a speed inside a jutsu.


Illogical speed which isn't congruent with basically every other feat Sakura, and other slower ninja, have shown.

As long as you agree that Kawarimi no jutsu is not a usable speed feat, then we have nothing to argue about.



			
				vagnard said:
			
		

> Sakura outclasses him in reaction speed too. She could see the movements of Sasuke after he gained Lee's speed. She could react to move away from Oro's giant snakes and to evade Oro's fuuton.


But her reaction time has little to do with her blitzing him.


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## zan (Oct 24, 2007)

Basilikos said:


> Last panel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A blur is what lee did when he fought gaara. when lee disappeared from one spot and attacked him from muiltable spots at one time ..Thats a blur or a speed feat.


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## Kai (Oct 25, 2007)

Haterade said:
			
		

> And the reason that I don't believe Sakura would be able to blitz Sokka despite having the obvious advantage in foot speed, is because foot speed =/= reaction speed.


Most shinobi somehow, biologically, have the supernatural ability at the ages of 10-12 to react and evade multiple knives being thrown at them.

, Sakura threw a kunai at such speed and force that it stuck to a tree and supported Naruto's weight[a falling Naruto].

The scan also supports her state of accuracy, if there were any comments challenging her for that.


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## potential (Oct 25, 2007)

Sakura at the begining of the fight sakura dosent need to speedblitz. Based of the scan above she can just throw a kunai straight threw his throat.


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## zan (Oct 25, 2007)

♦Kiroi Senko♦ said:


> Most shinobi somehow, biologically, have the supernatural ability at the ages of 10-12 to react and evade multiple knives being thrown at them.
> 
> , Sakura threw a kunai at such speed and force that it stuck to a tree and supported Naruto's weight[a falling Naruto].
> 
> The scan also supports her state of accuracy, if there were any comments challenging her for that.


I wouldnt say its a biologically super powers..Well exp the people with those type of birth rights..etc you know what i mean...

Its more about  condition think about it..At a young age 5 or 6 they start training working out...etc They start building there body to be something that would be like of a Olympic gold medalist..They start working on throwing weapons sword fighting hand to hand combate..etc..So by the time they are   10 or 11.They body is made be as prefect as they can be..They can run faster then normal people they can jump further..etc..They body is able to do feats normal people who just played and hang out in those age woudnt be able to do..so they work out every day adding to there skill..It would get to the point where they can do outstanding things people would think it would be impossible..

Kinda of like this kid.... If i remember right in the pic he is about 7-8..i cant remember..      

But in all reality that is what they would prob look like if they was real live people... 
Also i wouldn't be surprised if a few thousand years ago kid would be able to do  some of the feats they did in naruto..With in reason.. 
Also the aim would be a part of they training they are people with great aim as they shown in naruto also..  


In all reality if people train there bodys like they did in naruto i wouldn't be suprised if people would be able to do things they have shown...
parkour(free running)
Numa Numa
Numa Numa
I bet you if they was in a jungle that they could jump from branch to branch as long as the tree themself was strong enough.... 
Numa Numa

Like i said it all about how the people train there bodies.  Honestly.Out side of the superhumans acts.. I think most of feats that have shown in the manga is possable for a humans with the right training can do.. I mean they had to take it out from somewhere..You know..Life imitate art and all...


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## Kai (Oct 25, 2007)

Nearly everything in Naruto is impossible for standard humans to reach. A headstrong example being no one on this planet can physically travel at a blur.

The elementary bunshin and kawarimi tactic coupled with shinobi materials would be widely effective against Avatar. Give any person the ability to create/manipulate small amounts of fire and you have yourself the average fire bender. Their lack of superhuman speed, wit, and durability just beg the ninjas  to walk all over them.

For any durability purpose, their armor doesn't signify anything special. Sokka's boomerang knocked off Zuko's helmet in the 1st episode.


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## Commander Shepard (Oct 25, 2007)

I already showed that Sokka can deflect kunai.


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## zan (Oct 25, 2007)

♦Kiroi Senko♦ said:


> Nearly everything in Naruto is impossible for standard humans to reach. A headstrong example being no one on this planet can physically travel at a blur.
> 
> The elementary bunshin and kawarimi tactic coupled with shinobi materials would be widely effective against Avatar. Give any person the ability to create/manipulate small amounts of fire and you have yourself the average fire bender. Their lack of superhuman speed, wit, and durability just beg the ninjas  to walk all over them.
> 
> For any durability purpose, their armor doesn't signify anything special. Sokka's boomerang knocked off Zuko's helmet in the 1st episode.


umm the only people who can travel in a blurr is the faster ninjas.. People like sakura cant travel that fast..The blurr lines was just a fast jump effect... 

But its not impossable for people can run pretty freaking fast there are tribes that out run deer to be able to kill and eat them. I already shown that humans can leap from roof tops to roof tops which means giving the right area they can area they can run tree to tree branch...

Am not saying that sokka can win..am just saying that giving him the right training that he can do basicly everything that sakura


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## Nihonjin (Oct 25, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> umm the only people who can travel in a blurr is the faster ninjas.. People like sakura cant travel that fast..The blurr lines was just a fast jump effect...



What about the grass getting blown away and sand clouds forming?
Also, if you can jump that fast, you can run faster.



> But its not impossable for people can run pretty freaking fast there are tribes that out run deer to be able to kill and eat them. I already shown that humans can leap from roof tops to roof tops which means giving the right area they can area they can run tree to tree branch...



Mark my lips, a human will never ever reach the same speed as any Naruto ninja regardless of how hard he/she may train.

For Gods sake tell me you're not comparing David Belle (Inventor of Le Parkour) to a Naruto ninja...
Belle is awesome and amazing and all, but he jumps off buildings, not up them. When you see him do something crazy like jump up a 3 story building then I'll agree with you.



> Am not saying that sokka can win..am just saying that giving him the right training that he can do basicly everything that sakura



No he cannot.


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## Basilikos (Oct 25, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> A blur is what lee did when he fought gaara. when lee disappeared from one spot and attacked him from muiltable spots at one time ..Thats a blur or a speed feat.


Is your eyesight poor? Sakura is clearly becoming a blur in the last panel of the scan I posted. Even at the start of Naruto she was already far above the strongest normal human.

Stop denying the facts when they're right in front of you. Sokka cannot react to an individual who can move so fast they appear as a blur.


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## zan (Oct 25, 2007)

Basilikos said:


> Is your eyesight poor? Sakura is clearly becoming a blur in the last panel of the scan I posted. Even at the start of Naruto she was already far above the strongest normal human.
> 
> Stop denying the facts when they're right in front of you. Sokka cannot react to an individual who can move so fast they appear as a blur.


lol That just shows they jumping off and thats it...They didnt turn in to a blur they just did a powerful jump....

Think about it..if she is fast enough to became a blur..why havent she ever done anything like that during a fight? Why hasnt she blur attack people?

but for the other thing..

I never said we would be able to match they speed they get since one we don't know how fast they can run...but we have people in this world that are pretty fucking fast..If one of those tribes was able to chase down a deer which they speed reach about 20-30 mph....You have to give credit to the powers of what a train human can do... 
Yes it impossable to reach what they have done in fiction..Because the phyisic behind comic books doesnt follow ours. But we can imate allot of what they have done.. like running on tree limbs and such if a person is trained to do it.


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## Ippy (Oct 25, 2007)

♦Kiroi Senko♦ said:


> Nearly everything in Naruto is impossible for standard humans to reach. A headstrong example being no one on this planet can physically travel at a blur.


Yes they can. 

Depending on the angle of observation and distance from the subject, any peak human sprinter(ala Olympic runner) can easily appear as a blur.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Oct 25, 2007)

Well if the fight takes anywhere near as long as this argument is going for sakura will become post-skip during the fight and there is your answer


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## Ulfgar (Oct 25, 2007)

Wait, this is still going on? I thought we established that Sakura wins through trickery?


----------



## mystictrunks (Oct 25, 2007)

SMH @ People Not Knowing Peole Can Be Blurs In Real Life. 

Watch a race.


Still not sure who wins.


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## Basilikos (Oct 25, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol That just shows they jumping off and thats it...They didnt turn in to a blur they just did a powerful jump....
> 
> Think about it..if she is fast enough to became a blur..why havent she ever done anything like that during a fight? Why hasnt she blur attack people?


----------



## zan (Oct 25, 2007)

lol she didnt blur speed.she used shadow clone..and ino tried to pick out which one was sakura but wasnt able to.


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## Kai (Oct 25, 2007)

mystictrunks said:
			
		

> SMH @ People Not Knowing Peole Can Be Blurs In Real Life.
> 
> Watch a race.


You must have a clouded cornea. Simple human reaction ranges between 150 to 300 milliseconds. There is no one on Earth that travels that quickly. Referring to a race is laughable.



helpmenow316 said:


> lol she didnt blur speed.she used shadow clone..and ino tried to pick out which one was sakura but wasnt able to.


Sakura doesn't know Kage Bunshin. You're now grasping at straws, and regardless the failure she presents in the first part of the series, she demonstrates the superhuman capabilities of a standard shinobi.

Sokka is [now] a close ranged fighter who is nowhere near as intelligent, physically powerful, or swift as Sakura. Those are all that's needed to close this book.


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## zan (Oct 26, 2007)

♦Kiroi Senko♦ said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She doesnt know shadow clone???




What do you call that.... Thats the first part of what you post.........So please STFU.


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## vagnard (Oct 26, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> She doesnt know shadow clone???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's regular bunshin....not kage bunshin. 

Bunshin = genjutsu

Kage Bunshin = Ninjutsu


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## zan (Oct 26, 2007)

vagnard said:


> That's regular bunshin....not kage bunshin.
> 
> Bunshin = genjutsu
> 
> Kage Bunshin = Ninjutsu


lol i said she made a clone never said a shadow clone,.The point is she made a clone of her self and ino tried to pick out which one it was and thats why she got socked..So no it wasnt a speed feat. No blurry lines. 

Plus sorry that i don't have all the right name memorized...My life doesnt goes around naurto and animes.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 26, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol That just shows they jumping off and thats it...They didnt turn in to a blur they just did a powerful jump....



If you can jump that fast, you can run faster. Plain logic.
Unless you're telling me you know someone who can bunny hop faster than he/she can sprint.



> Think about it..if she is fast enough to became a blur..why havent she ever done anything like that during a fight? Why hasnt she blur attack people?



She did, its just that the people she's fighting against are (unlike Sokka) super humans as well. Heck, most (if not all of them) are a hell of alot faster than Sakura, so they can defend against it.

We've explained it multiple times that Sakura's speed isn't anything special in the Narutoverse, but against a regular human, its complete overkill.
Because right now your argument seems to be "Because Superhumans can react to Sakura, Sokka, who's inferior to even regular humans, can as well." Smooth logic.



> I never said we would be able to match they speed they get since one we don't know how fast they can run...but we have people in this world that are pretty fucking fast..If one of those tribes was able to chase down a deer which they speed reach about 20-30 mph....You have to give credit to the powers of what a train human can do...



30 whole miles per hour, amazing.
I've said it before, and I'll say it until it gets through your thick skull, training will _*never*_ give a human the same speed as Naruto Ninja's.



> Yes it impossable to reach what they have done in fiction..Because the phyisic behind comic books doesnt follow ours. But we can imate allot of what they have done.. like running on tree limbs and such if a person is trained to do it.



Are you seriously suggesting that the Naruto tree traveling thing is doable by a human with proper training? Dude, stop with what ever it is you're smoking. 




helpmenow316 said:


> She doesnt know *shadow clone???
> *posts scan**





helpmenow316 said:


> *lol i said she made a clone never said a shadow clone*



Ehm...yeah.


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## vagnard (Oct 26, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> lol i said she made a clone never said a shadow clone,.The point is she made a clone of her self and ino tried to pick out which one it was and thats why she got socked..So no it wasnt a speed feat. No blurry lines.
> 
> In the last post you said "she never has done a shadow clone?" and you posted that image. I was correcting you. That wasn't a kage bunshin. It was a regular bunshin.
> 
> ...


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## zan (Oct 26, 2007)

Well it doesnt matter...What you call it she made a clone or whatever you calll it and ino tried to fighter her but wasnt able to hit the right one... 

Plus Yes if there is a right type of woods then yes its possible..If you don't believe me look at the links i posted before...If a person can runs roof top to roof top then going tree to tree with a thick enough branches shouldn't be a problem.

Yes i have time to get on naruto forums.But thats because i do other things while am on here.


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## Nihonjin (Oct 26, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> Plus Yes if there is a right type of woods then yes its possible..If you don't believe me look at the links i posted before...If a person can runs roof top to roof top then going tree to tree with a thick enough branches shouldn't be a problem.



Please, stop saying dumb things like that, you're making it hard for me to take you serious.

Le Parkour and jumping from tree to tree are two completely different things.
David Belle jumps DOWN buildings, not up them.
Jumping from tree to tree like in Naruto is physically impossible for humans.

Also, if Ino only got hit because of Bunshin no jutsu, give me one reason why Kishi made Sakura and Ino specifically comment on her speed.


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## Kai (Oct 26, 2007)

helpmenow316 said:


> *she used shadow clone*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prime example of someone who has no idea what they are talking about until someone has to quote it in their face.

It's unnecessary for you to lash out. Save it, no one's interested.


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## DramaPoette (Nov 11, 2007)

@ the OP. Please don't create a battledome thread if you're going to have a preconceived bias. And people keep forgetting that Sakura isn't an idiot either. She knows basic shinobi traps, which are probably on par with any used in the Avatar universe (I don't know for sure though, as I haven't watched a large amount of it). She has analysis skills as well, and with basic shinobi ninjustu and genjustu (it was said that she was originally a genjustu type, and was the only genin able to dispell Kabuto's genjustu) I think she would eventually beat Sokka, but he would probably put up a decent fight. Also, there's no need to get heated over this, so let's not be rude to one another.

That's all I have to say.


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## Ulfgar (Nov 11, 2007)

GAAH cease and desist with the thread necromancy!


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## Tash (Nov 11, 2007)

Old thread is old.


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## Commander Shepard (Nov 11, 2007)

DramaPoette said:


> @ the OP. Please don't create a battledome thread if you're going to have a preconceived bias. And people keep forgetting that Sakura isn't an idiot either. She knows basic shinobi traps, which are probably on par with any used in the Avatar universe (I don't know for sure though, as I haven't watched a large amount of it). She has analysis skills as well, and with basic shinobi ninjustu and genjustu (it was said that she was originally a genjustu type, and was the only genin able to dispell Kabuto's genjustu) I think she would eventually beat Sokka, but he would probably put up a decent fight. Also, there's no need to get heated over this, so let's not be rude to one another.
> 
> That's all I have to say.



And you resurrect my old thread _why_...


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## Sylar (Nov 11, 2007)

DramaPoette said:


> Useless blather.



@guy who stupidly bumbed two week old thread that everyone wanted to die.

Don't do what you just did.  Never again.


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## Giovanni Rild (Nov 11, 2007)

DramaPoette said:


> @ the OP. Please don't create a battledome thread if you're going to have a preconceived bias. And people keep forgetting that Sakura isn't an idiot either. She knows basic shinobi traps, which are probably on par with any used in the Avatar universe (I don't know for sure though, as I haven't watched a large amount of it). She has analysis skills as well, and with basic shinobi ninjustu and genjustu (it was said that she was originally a genjustu type, and was the only genin able to dispell Kabuto's genjustu) I think she would eventually beat Sokka, but he would probably put up a decent fight. Also, there's no need to get heated over this, so let's not be rude to one another.
> 
> That's all I have to say.



Sorry but I have to correct you. Shikimaru dispelled Kabuto's genjutsu also.


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## sasukebaka (Jul 4, 2010)

Sokka Would Win


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## Random Nobody (Jul 4, 2010)

Why the hell did you post in a thread that was almost three years old?


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## Level7N00b (Jul 4, 2010)




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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2010)

Sokka calls her fat and chops her head off while she's crying in a corner.


Also, lol, necroing a thread where the last poster was Rild. Now that's ancient.


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## Gunners (Jul 4, 2010)

Tash said:


> Old thread is old.



Posted in 2007.


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## Commander Shepard (Jul 4, 2010)

Mwhahaha, one of my first creations walks the Battledome once more!


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2010)

I think I was banned at time this thread was created because of me calling sentry a phenomonol in the making.

Oh irony.


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## Alita (Jul 4, 2010)

Sakura babyshakes sokka. Sokka's speed is peak human at best. Sakura is way faster than that and can blitz punch his head off.


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## Commander Shepard (Jul 4, 2010)

Not pre-skip she can.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2010)

If she doesn't stop two seconds before hitting him and deciding "wait no I can't after all!!!"


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## Alita (Jul 4, 2010)

Commander Shepard said:


> Not pre-skip she can.


Even pre skip sakura is still faster than sokka.

Zaku moves faster than the eye can see
See for yourself

Throws ninja weapons faster than the eye can see
See for yourself

Sakura moves fast enough to react to zaku's attack and perform a substitution before he hits her.
See for yourself

Is able to catch zaku off gaurd and nail him with her kunai.
See for yourself

Sokka isn't anywhere near as fast as zaku who sakura kept up with. Even pre skip sakura blitzes him and punches his head off.


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## ?cureuil fou (Jul 4, 2010)

I click on this thread, and for a second I'm trying to figure out how Suzembachi got a post in. Then I realize it was made in 2007.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2010)

Non lee Faster than eye can see is some major bullshit.


That tired old shoen trope can co-relate to faster than what other people can react, and honestly has loooong lost it's value in the obd.

Just drop it.


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## Banhammer (Jul 4, 2010)

?cureuil fou said:


> I click on this thread, and for a second I'm trying to figure out how Suzembachi got a post in. Then I realize it was made in 2007.



old farts are we?


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## Shinkirou (Jul 5, 2010)

I honestly don't recall her being that fast pre-skip.


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## Kage no Yume (Jul 5, 2010)

Shinkirou said:


> I honestly don't recall her being that fast pre-skip.



Her agility, reaction speed, strength, and skill are indeed superhuman though:

-Being able to leap 20+ feet to tree branches above.

-Easily knocking out an average man with a single kick.

-Managing to pin a falling Naruto to a tree with a kunai.




Still...Pre-skip Sakura vs. Blade of Grass...


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