# "We speak English...Learn it" says Alaska candidate



## Goobhunter (Apr 28, 2010)

Tim James, candidate for Alaskan governor had this to say concerning all immigrants in the US.

"We speak English...Learn it.

So do you think immigrants are obligated to speak English?


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## Chee (Apr 28, 2010)

No, but as courtesy they should. I'm not gonna go out of my way to learn another language for them.

I'd do the same if I went to another country that spoke a different language.


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## Degelle (Apr 28, 2010)

Yes.

Just like we have in Sweden: all immigrants are obligated to learn Swedish.


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## Deleted member 174958 (Apr 28, 2010)

If they wanna live here, they HAVE to learn English. How can they comunicate with us if they can't speak our language?

Yes, they should speak English, most definitely.


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## Adagio (Apr 28, 2010)

You have to learn the main language of the country you're immigrating to.. why is it that seemingly only Hispanic immigrants in the US pose this problem? I haven't heard of this in other countries.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Apr 28, 2010)

Americans don't even speak English well themselves


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## Detonator_Fan (Apr 28, 2010)

I think that more immigration is a good thing and less control of immigration would be great for everyone.

But I think that immigrants MUST learn the language of the country they are in.


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## Momoka (Apr 28, 2010)

Well they should learn to speak English since they live in an English speaking country now. That's the way to communicate. 

Though, I mean, if people already know how to drive, it would be fair to give them a license (when they took it in their own language here). But then again, that would cause a lot more problem.... 

Yeah, people should learn to speak English (it is tough, but at least the basics would do to help you get through).

You know, why does that announcer guy in that vid have his head turned sideways?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

Degelle said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just like we have in Sweden: all immigrants are obligated to learn Swedish.


Yeah I agree, don't want to speak the language, then get the fuck out. 

England, Canada and France all do this too. Hell most people I know on here speak it and many of them don't even live near a country where they need to know it.


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## perman07 (Apr 28, 2010)

I think not knowing the language is often a bigger problem in non-English countries since so many people know English. And English-speakers are often the worst sinners Lousy, entitled people too used to surfing by on your English


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## vivEnergy (Apr 28, 2010)

who doesn't speak english anyway ?


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## darkangelcel (Apr 28, 2010)

Well yes, immigrants should speak English, in Rome do as the Romans.

I just would like English speaking people to not expect everyone to speak English in foreign countries! LEARN THE LANGUAGE!


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

perman07 said:


> I think not knowing the language is often a bigger problem in non-English countries since so many people know English. And English-speakers are often the worst sinners Lousy, entitled people too used to surfing by on your English


People typically know the language of the country they live in. Europeans get ridiculous with it. One member on here knows like five languages fluently and I see others that know two or three, that's rare here.


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## Razgriez (Apr 28, 2010)

No Mexican is going to live in Alaska.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

I doubt we should kick them out if they do not understand English, but I do not understand why we waste millions of dollars translating all these signs and public papers into Spanish because they are too damn lazy to learn the native language.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 28, 2010)

Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap. 

It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap.
> 
> It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.



Whine!  No one is forcing them by the arm to immigrate to our country.  If they could not put in the effort to communicate with the rest of us, then I could understand why some of us would want to expel them out.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Telling immigrants to learn English is a bit redundant considering that everyone needs to know at least some English to get by.

If we want to abolish Spanish, then we should make it a law to prohibit companies from hiring immigrants under minimum wage for cheap labor. If everyone was on the same pay-scale, there would be no incentive to hire an immigrant who can only speak Spanish.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap.
> 
> It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.


Scare tactics? It's something most other countries do. Your post reads more like more tactics to defend people too lazy to integrate themselves into the mainstream population.



bobomb said:


> Telling immigrants to learn English is a bit  proverbial considering that everyone needs to know at least some English  to get by.




Canada, England, France and Sweden all make you learn one of their native languages.


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## perman07 (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap.
> 
> It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.


That's not necessarily true. Plenty of people who live in a country for several decades without learning the language. Mandatory language learning is actually partly considered a woman issue here in Norway. It's common for the immigrant Muslim wives to not work and never leave the home, thus never coming into an environment that makes them learn Norwegian.


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## Degelle (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap.
> 
> It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.



Learning the language is a part of implanting yourself into the society. I probably required that you're able to understand what's being said to you under any job or job application, I'd imagine.

In Sweden we have free courses for adults and children that come here has immigrants.


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## Tsukiyomi (Apr 28, 2010)

If they aren't willing to learn English to be able to live in this country then obviously they don't want in _that_ badly and I see nothing wrong with kicking them out.


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## FLUFFY G (Apr 28, 2010)

Things will go lot smoother for everyone if immigrants just learned English.

I'm just saying, I'm sick of going to McDonalds and having to repeat my order to someone who barely speaks English.


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## Jagon Fox (Apr 28, 2010)

yeah, why not. whether they are gonna live here or just visit it'd make things easier for like everybody, them most of all. i mean if i'm gonna run off and live in another country it makes perfect sense for me to learn the language.


i'm sure it'll be hard for some people to learn a new language but it can be done with enough practice and there are plenty of programs, both at home and in schools that can people do that.


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 28, 2010)

At first I was thinking, wtf how many problems could Alaska possibly have with immigration? But it turns out it's Alabama.

It would be unconstitutional to force people to speak english because it doesn't specify english as the official language. Legally, they can speak whatever they want.

It's basically a non-issue, people are shooting themselves in the foot if they go to the US and don't speak english. If they are willing to do that, it's up to them. It's really stupid of them, but forcing people to speak a certain language sounds to me to be against everything the US stands for.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 28, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> Whine!  No one is forcing them by the arm to immigrate to our country.  If they could not put in the effort to communicate with the rest of us, then I could understand why some of us would want to expel them out.



Only whining I see is people *complaining* that immigrants aren't learning the native language. 

What do you expect them to do, instantly know the language once they cross the border? Like all other immigrant populations who ever came to America, they will eventually learn English. But many of us will also learn Spanish, eat Mexican food, and adopt some of their customs as well. We always benefit from immigrant cultures becoming our own.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Canada, England, France and Sweden all make you learn one of their native languages.



Exactly, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only reason why we haven't is because America is the land of opportunity. No one, other than the Native Americans (and Mexicans) before us, can say that America was an English-only nation. 

There needs to be a tolerance to give immigrants time to learn English, but that should be fine, considering that it usually takes many years to become a citizen anyways. You kind of need English to get by. ^_^



FLUFFY G said:


> Things will go lot smoother for everyone if immigrants just learned English.
> 
> I'm just saying, I'm sick of going to McDonalds and having to repeat my order to someone who barely speaks English.



You can:

complain to the manager.
write to your local representative that companies should not be obligated to hire illegals for cheap labor.
learn Spanish.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> Exactly, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The only reason why we haven't is because America is the land of opportunity. No one, other than the Native Americans (and Mexicans) before us, can say that America was an English-only  nation.
> 
> There needs to be a tolerance to give immigrants time to learn English, but that should be fine, considering that it usually takes many years to become a citizen anyways.



Time my ass, I see plenty of people here learning English within two years. Point being it should be part of becoming a citizen. 



Shinigami Perv said:


> Only whining I see is people *complaining* that immigrants aren't learning the native language.
> 
> What do you expect them to do, instantly know the language once they cross the border? Like all other immigrant populations who ever came to America, they will eventually learn English. But many of us will also learn Spanish, eat Mexican food, and adopt some of their customs as well. We always benefit from immigrant cultures becoming our own.


Don't you live in Canada? A place that enforces this same law. 

And I don't have to learn Spanish or any other language because I don't plan on living somewhere they don't speak English.


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## Inuhanyou (Apr 28, 2010)

o_O Lol...anti immigration is conservative agenda's point.


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## emROARS (Apr 28, 2010)

Adagio said:


> You have to learn the main language of the country you're immigrating to.. why is it that seemingly only Hispanic immigrants in the US pose this problem? I haven't heard of this in other countries.



Happens with the Polish and Middle-Eastern here in the UK too. :/
Some can't even speak a simple sentence. (at least the parents can't in my brothers primary.)


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## xDeathxDiexDayx (Apr 28, 2010)

It's their choice whether or not they want to, nobody's really forcing them to. But, if their going to be legal citizens, they should at least try to learn and do things the right thing to help themselves and their family who needs it.


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## Stalin (Apr 28, 2010)

Yes or else you can't communicate in this country.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> What do you expect them to do, instantly know the language once they cross the border? Like all other immigrant populations who ever came to America, they will eventually learn English.



A great number of them do not put in the effort to learn the language, at least not enough to communicate with the rest of society.  It goes back to the fact that many Hispanic immigrants aim to return to their homelands one day, and thus only stay here temporary to exploit our labor laws.  They have no desire to assimilate into the mainstream culture, and by not even learning the native language, they only alienate the rest of society.  



> But many of us will also learn Spanish, eat Mexican food, and adopt some of their customs as well. We always benefit from immigrant cultures becoming our own.



Completely besides the issue.


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## Altron (Apr 28, 2010)

No they should speak English otherwise they will never get jobs higher than working in the fields. It is a no brainer that when emigrating to another country or even going on a vacation to at least bother to learn the basics of the language in the country you will be in. Seriously they have free english learning classes in my city. Just as I expect that if I live in Europe someday, I will need to know the language of whatever country I choose to live in. 

My mom became a US citizen in January after being an legal green card immigrant for 20 years. Seriously letting illegals get to be US citizens easily is a slap to the face to all those immigrants who spent time and years trying to be legal the right way.

*Tell me has anyone here ever seen an immigrant in a high paying office job just speaking spanish and not learning english?


*


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Time my ass, I see plenty of people here learning English within two years. Point being it should be part of becoming a citizen.



You sound intolerant and impatient. Most who have been here as long as 2 years will have had the time to have learnt English, and be able to at least speak conversationally. There isn't anyone in the world who wants to come to a foreign country and not be able to speak to anyone.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 28, 2010)

perman07 said:


> That's not necessarily true. *Plenty of people who live in a country for several decades without learning the language.* Mandatory language learning is actually partly considered a woman issue here in Norway. It's common for the immigrant Muslim wives to not work and never leave the home, thus never coming into an environment that makes them learn Norwegian.



That's not what I said, you know it, and I know it. I'll reiterate for you, and challenge it if you dare:

Not a single immigrant community who came to our shores failed to learn English. Not the Dutch, not the Germans, not the Irish (dropping their accents), not the Jews, not the Chinese, not even the Africans who were brought here against their will. My great great grandfather was a Dane and couldn't speak a lick for decades. 

And that will not change here. It's a non-issue. If your country is having issues, it's  nothing to me and mine.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Don't you live in Canada? A place that enforces this same law.



I live in the USA.


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## Razgriez (Apr 28, 2010)

> Tell me has anyone here ever seen an immigrant in a high paying office job just speaking spanish and not learning english?



DISCRIMINATION!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone else that is already here should be forced to conform to outsiders!


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## Ceria (Apr 28, 2010)

Starhunter said:


> Tim James, candidate for Alaskan governor had this to say concerning all immigrants in the US.
> 
> "We speak English...Learn it.
> 
> So do you think immigrants are obligated to speak English?



Yes, because you don't go to germany and demand that they alter their culture to suit your needs. Its like the growing spanish community in florida, seeing billboards in my state with not a lick of english on them is offensive. 

assimilate or get the fuck out.


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## Mexican God Lvl 3 (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Canada, England, France and Sweden all make you learn one of their native languages.


Following the example of lame countries isnt the american way 


Degelle said:


> Learning the language is a part of implanting yourself into the society. I probably required that you're able to understand what's being said to you under any job or job application, I'd imagine.
> 
> In Sweden we have free courses for adults and children that come here has immigrants.


Sweden sucks :ho


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## @lk3mizt (Apr 28, 2010)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Americans don't even speak English well themselves



  

I know right!?!?

I must imagine how much in pain you are being English and all hahahahahahaha

fuck i wish i hadn't repped you earlier. this is worth 10 more reps!


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## Juice (Apr 28, 2010)

They should learn English. 
It makes sense because I sure as hell know that if Americans started pouring into Mexico for any reason they would have to learn Spanish before the Spanish speaking people learn English.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 28, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> A great number of them do not put in the effort to learn the language, at least not enough to communicate with the rest of society.  I*t goes back to the fact that many Hispanic immigrants aim to return to their homelands one day, *and thus only stay here temporary to exploit our labor laws.  They have no desire to assimilate into the mainstream culture, and by not even learning the native language, they only alienate the rest of society.



What? 

Never heard of this. Very few intend to return, especially if they have citizenship. Most have risked life and limb to get here in the first place and want to stay.


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## perman07 (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> That's not what I said, you know it, and I know it. I'll reiterate for you, and challenge it if you dare:
> 
> Not a single immigrant community who came to our shores failed to learn English. Not the Dutch, not the Germans, not the Irish (dropping their accents), not the Jews, not even the Africans who were brought here against their will. My great great grandfather was a Dane and couldn't speak a lick for decades.
> 
> ...


Of course no community outright fails, I'm talking about deviants here (statistically speaking). And I am sure the same thing happens in America, you have immigrants who keep their wives in the kitchen too, if they never go out, the incentive is way less to lean the language.

I get where you're coming from, but the problems are probably less apparent in an English-speaking country since you get less people that doesn't know the language.

Unemployment is typically associated with this for instance. If you give free mandatory lessons, that will help quicken the transition for many people into employment.


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## CrazyMoronX (Apr 28, 2010)

We should let everyone speak their own languages and print signs in every single language on earth.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> What?
> 
> Never heard of this. Very few intend to return, especially if they have citizenship. Most have risked life and limb to get here in the first place and want to stay.



Google is not being very cooperative.  According to wikipedia, 15% of immigrants return back to their countries of origin after saving up enough funds from working in the U.S.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> What?
> 
> Never heard of this. Very few intend to return, especially if they have citizenship. Most have risked life and limb to get here in the first place and want to stay.



That depends.   But it's true that crossing the border illegally is life-endangering. 



dreams lie said:


> Google is not being very cooperative.  According to wikipedia, 15% of immigrants return back to their countries of origin after saving up enough funds from working in the U.S.



I don't know how accurate Wikipedia will be on this particular issue, considering that illegal immigrants are undocumented.


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## Kira Yamato (Apr 28, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> If they wanna live here, they HAVE to learn English. *How can they comunicate with us if they can't speak our language?*
> 
> Yes, they should speak English, most definitely.



Stay in certain areas of S.Florida and you'll never have to speak a word of English. In fact you're looked as weird if you can't speak Spanish.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

@Kira: Miami! Uh!! South Beach bringing the heat! Uh!

Bienvenido a Miami.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 28, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> *Google is not being very cooperative.*  According to wikipedia, 15% of immigrants return back to their countries of origin after saving up enough funds from working in the U.S.



Probably because it's not a major phenomenon. Even if the stuff on Wikipedia is true, that's 85% of all immigrants coming here and staying, and that isn't a reflection of non-English speaking immigrants since Indians come here frequently knowing English.


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## Juice (Apr 28, 2010)

Kira Yamato said:


> Stay in certain areas of S.Florida and you'll never have to speak a word of English. In fact you're looked as weird if you can't speak Spanish.



A lot of the U.S. is like this. lol


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## Taco (Apr 28, 2010)

FLUFFY G said:


> Things will go lot smoother for everyone if immigrants just learned English.
> 
> I'm just saying, I'm sick of going to McDonalds and having to repeat my order to someone who barely speaks English.



YDI for going to Micky D's.

But seriously, learn English.



Kira Yamato said:


> Stay in certain areas of S.Florida and you'll never have to speak a word of English. In fact you're looked as weird if you can't speak Spanish.



Ever been to Los Angeles? XD


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## ScreenXSurfer (Apr 28, 2010)

It's the most annoying thing when you're obligated to help somebody and they don't speak english.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Probably because it's not a major phenomenon. Even if the stuff on Wikipedia is true, that's 85% of all immigrants coming here and staying, and that isn't a reflection of non-English speaking immigrants since Indians come here frequently knowing English.



Sounds like it is a pretty big one.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Probably because it's not a major phenomenon. Even if the stuff on Wikipedia is true, that's 85% of all immigrants coming here and staying, and that isn't a reflection of non-English speaking immigrants since Indians come here frequently knowing English.



A conservative nonprofit organization is arguing your point, but uses the same numbers.  



> Today?s Immigrants are Permanent and Create Net Costs
> 
> Before 1900, there may have been some marginal fiscal gain from immigration. Today, the estimated annual net cost of each immigrant, on average, is $2700. Then, immigrants? stay in the U.S. was often temporary; today?s immigrants are here to stay. The Immigration and Naturalization Service estimates that the rate of return from 1900 to 1904 was over 37 percent3;* in the 1990s, the rate of immigrants? return to their homelands was a much lower 15 percent.*4





Anyways, I do not see 15% as a small number.  That is more than one out of seven of the 38 million first generation immigrants in America.


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## Reborn (Apr 28, 2010)

I think they should learn enough to understand the gist of what someone is saying, like how I can with Spanish by understanding most words and putting in context clues, but honestly, you can't _force_ someone to learn a language.


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## Shibo Hebihime Uirusu (Apr 28, 2010)

They should learn English if they wish to come to America, even if a little. That should go for every single immigrant. It can be crappy English, but it's still English.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

Jeagerjacques said:


> I think they should learn enough to understand the gist of what someone is saying, like how I can with Spanish by understanding most words and putting in context clues, but honestly, you can't _force_ someone to learn a language.


Several other countries do it and we'd be better off for it.


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## kazuri (Apr 28, 2010)

It's not my business what language anyone else speaks.

If they want employment, and the employer wants them to speak a certain language, that is different. But, they have no right to force them to learn it, they can simply tell them they wont get the job until they learn, etc.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

kazuri said:


> It's not my business what language anyone else speaks.
> 
> If they want employment, and the employer wants them to speak a certain language, that is different. But, they have no right to force them to learn it, they can simply tell them they wont get the job until they learn, etc.


Except if they can't speak the language, then your taxes have to be wasted trying to teach several languages in schools and going toward signs in several languages because people refuse to adapt to the country they live in.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Eh, this problem has existed forever. The first generation will always have problems with English, assuming they came here as adults, while the second generation and on will be fluent.

It just seems like a major issue because of the influx of Spanish speaking immigrants but it's really a problem that fixes itself.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Eh, this problem has existed forever. The first generation will always have problems with English, assuming they came here as adults, while the second generation and on will be fluent.
> 
> It just seems like a major issue because of the influx of Spanish speaking immigrants but it's really a problem that fixes itself.


Odd thing is that you see Asians who come here as adults and have the language locked down pretty fast and their languages aren't even related to ours.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Odd thing is that you see Asians who come here as adults and have the language locked down pretty fast and their languages aren't even related to ours.



Many of them have experience with English beforehand, in the ones I've encountered anyway, and are here for more knowledge related reasons anyway forcing them to study the language.


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## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Odd thing is that you see Asians who come here as adults and have the language locked down pretty fast and their languages aren't even related to ours.



As a second generation immigrant, I have to testify that this is not true.  It seems to me that they give more of an effort to learn, but the accent is strong, the grammar is weak, and the overall diction remains poor.



> Many of them have experience with English beforehand



Also true.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Odd thing is that you see Asians who come here as adults and have the language locked down pretty fast and their languages aren't even related to ours.



Source please. 

The Asians that you speak of, usually have the resources ahead of time to learn English, whereas the ones who cross the river don't typically have those resources until they come here.


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## Nick Soapdish (Apr 28, 2010)

Degelle said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just like we have in Sweden: all immigrants are obligated to learn Swedish.



Prior to gaining citizenship or when they move in?



Adagio said:


> You have to learn the main language of the country you're immigrating to.. why is it that seemingly only Hispanic immigrants in the US pose this problem? I haven't heard of this in other countries.



It's simply because we have more Hispanic immigrants. All of our immigrant communities face this issue. The older generation usually doesn't learn English or only learns to speak it badly. But their kids speak English and are bilingual. The next generation usually only speaks English. In the case of Hispanics, we've had a steady stream of them so it seems like they never learn the language.



♥~Momolicious~♥ said:


> Well they should learn to speak English since they live in an English speaking country now. That's the way to communicate.
> 
> Though, I mean, if people already know how to drive, it would be fair to give them a license (when they took it in their own language here). But then again, that would cause a lot more problem....
> 
> ...



Are we talking about an international driver's license? The laws for driving are different in different nations.



FLUFFY G said:


> Things will go lot smoother for everyone if immigrants just learned English.
> 
> I'm just saying, I'm sick of going to McDonalds and having to repeat my order to someone who barely speaks English.



That's the problem with hiring American high school students. They don't speak the language here. 



Shinigami Perv said:


> That's not what I said, you know it, and I know it. I'll reiterate for you, and challenge it if you dare:
> 
> Not a single immigrant community who came to our shores failed to learn English. Not the Dutch, not the Germans, not the Irish (dropping their accents), not the Jews, not the Chinese, not even the Africans who were brought here against their will. My great great grandfather was a Dane and couldn't speak a lick for decades.
> 
> And that will not change here. It's a non-issue. If your country is having issues, it's  nothing to me and mine.



Exactly!

This isn't a new issue. It's been ongoing in the United States since we won our independence. It's why immigrant groups clustered back then and it's why they're clustering now. But the increased mobility in the nation makes those clusters more obvious. 

The United States isn't a melting pot; it's a stew. The different parts of it are pretty chunky and take a really long time to completely blend - if ever. For example, Minnesotans still tend to be blond-haired with blue eyes and have distinctive accents. But even their grandparents were born here.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

dreams lie said:


> As a second generation immigrant, I have to testify that this is not true.  It seems to me that they give more of an effort to learn, but the accent is strong, the grammar is weak, and the overall diction remains poor.
> 
> 
> 
> Also true.



Accents aren't a problem, you need to be able to read, understand and speak it. 



bobomb said:


> Source please.
> 
> The Asians that you speak of, usually have the resources ahead of time to learn English, whereas the ones who cross the river don't typically have those resources until they come here.



Doesn't matter, the thing is they still do it. And the source is the fact that I have yet to run into a single Asian who doesn't speak at least some English and enough to get by.

You're all making excuses where there are none, if you don't want to learn English and can't try then don't come to the US, simple as that.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Accents aren't a problem, you need to be able to read, understand and speak it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But you don't need to be able to speak a language to work or pay what you have to. Reading while important isn't necessary to life.

You can get by and be completely illiterate while not understanding anything people are saying.


Also accents are important to understanding and speaking a language.


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## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You're all making excuses where there are none, if you don't want to learn English and can't try then don't come to the US, simple as that.



If you are going to hold that same standard to immigrants, then you should also hold that same standard for yourself: *Don't go to any non-English speaking country*. 

To everyone else: isn't this an obvious example of racism?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> But you don't need to be able to speak a language to work or pay what you have to. Reading while important isn't necessary to life.



Wrong: 



bobomb said:


> If you are going to hold that same standard to immigrants, then you should also hold that same standard for yourself: *Don't go to any non-English speaking country*.
> 
> To everyone else: isn't this an obvious example of racism?



It's not racism, because it doesn't apply to any one race and as I said its a part of the naturalization in many countries.


----------



## zabuza666 (Apr 28, 2010)

Adagio said:


> You have to learn the main language of the country you're immigrating to.. why is it that seemingly only Hispanic immigrants in the US pose this problem? I haven't heard of this in other countries.



Asians in Australia.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

zabuza666 said:


> Asians in Australia.


I suspect its a problem in any country where the country itself caters to them and doesn't require they learn it.


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

Yes. 

You live in our country, speak the native tongue instead of _expecting us_ to allow you to get into our country _illegally_ and then have to learn *your* language.


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Wrong:



Yea. You don't need to observe laws to get by.


----------



## Tsukiyomi (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> If you are going to hold that same standard to immigrants, then you should also hold that same standard for yourself: *Don't go to any non-English speaking country*.
> 
> To everyone else: isn't this an obvious example of racism?



If I was planning on living or working in a non-english speaking country I would learn the language.

Like I said, if they can't be bothered to learn English then obviously they won't want into the county _that_ badly.


----------



## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

It's racism because you are assuming they don't want to learn English.  And if you aren't talking about Asians, Europeans, or Africans, then who are you talking about?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Yea. You don't need to observe laws to get by.



Looks like you've run out of arguments. 



bobomb said:


> It's racism because you are assuming they don't want to learn English.  And if you aren't talking about Asians, Europeans, or Africans, then who are you talking about?


What?


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Looks like you've run out of arguments.



I made a point and you responded with something that didn't address what I said. Observing the law is not necessary to get by or live in a country.


----------



## dreams lie (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> And if you aren't talking about Asians, Europeans, or Africans, then who are you talking about?



Legally, Mexico makes up over a fifth of our immigrants.  Most Asians and Europeans already have a background in English.  African immigrants are too little in number to be notable.  The truth sucks.  :/


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> It's racism because you are assuming they don't want to learn English.  And if you aren't talking about Asians, Europeans, or Africans, then who are you talking about?



That's not being racist. 

They don't want to learn our language because they know they won't have to. By law-- ('cause they don't seem to follow that anyway), they don't _have _to and that we'll be stressed by learning learn their language -- whoever "they" are at the moment.... 

EDIT:
Yea, you pretty much need to know our language, to read and write it, to survive and work here.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> I made a point and you responded with something that didn't address what I said. Observing the law is not necessary to get by or live in a country.


Yes it is, not only that but not reading and understanding warning signs is against the law here. If you get stopped and can't read the sign, you shouldn't be driving. If you can't read warning signs you can get hurt, killed, or endanger others and you're just pulling excuses up.


----------



## Nick Soapdish (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Accents aren't a problem, you need to be able to read, understand and speak it.



Being understand*able* is also useful. I've heard some pretty horrific accents from professors that have come from abroad. Kinda sucks when you can't understand your professor.

Heck, I've heard some terrible accents from Americans. I'm not even sure they were speaking English. Is Redneck a separate language or a dialect?



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Doesn't matter, the thing is they still do it. And the source is the fact that I have yet to run into a single Asian who doesn't speak at least some English and enough to get by.
> 
> You're all making excuses where there are none, if you don't want to learn English and can't try then don't come to the US, simple as that.



Where do you live? I've run into plenty of Asians that don't speak English and that was just on vacation in New York (when in Chinatown). Maybe they were all on vacation as well.

There are a lot of Asians that have immigrated here, highly educated and already knowing the language. But there are also lots that don't speak a lick of English just like the Hispanics that people love to complain about. And just like the Hispanics and every other immigrant group that's come in not knowing the language, they never do get all that good at it. They just tend to be more insular.


----------



## mystictrunks (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Yes it is, not only that but not reading and understanding warning signs is against the law here. If you get stopped and can't read the sign, you shouldn't be driving. If you can't read warning signs you can get hurt, killed, or endanger others and you're just pulling excuses up.



I'm not making excuses. You don't need to do any of those things to live or get by in a country. There are repercussions to taking the lane of not learning the prominent language of a country but in the U.S. it doesn't mean you can't have a life here.


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> I'm not making excuses. You don't need to do any of those things to live or get by in a country. There are repercussions to taking the lane of not learning the prominent language of a country but in the U.S. it doesn't mean you can't have a life here.



Much much, much harder if you can't speak, read or do anything in the Native tongue. People aren't going to understand you, or the other way around.


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 28, 2010)

If you are here with visas, you could be learning the language. So, its 100% necessary to have different languages for proper communication.


----------



## The Space Cowboy (Apr 28, 2010)

As English is the most widely spoken language in the US, I don't see why you wouldn't want to learn it if you were an immigrant--regardless of whether you've emigrated to the US legally or not.

It offers a competitive advantage.


----------



## Roy (Apr 28, 2010)

This is _new_ news? I'm Hispanic and I think they should learn fucking English.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Apr 28, 2010)

English?
Real Americans speak American


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

Diceman said:


> English?
> Real Americans speak American




American is English, since our language originally came from England...right?
I originally speak Na'vi, so yea, I'm alien.


----------



## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What?



My thoughts exactly.

*And no one here is saying that they shouldn't speak English*! Let's remember that before the United States took over, states like Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, etc., were already Spanish speaking regions before English was even introduced to these areas.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> *And no one here is saying that they shouldn't speak English*! Let's remember that before the United States took over, states like Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, etc., were already Spanish speaking regions before English was even introduced to these areas.



And before England took Wales, Ireland and Scotland they had languages too...so do you have a point or do you just think that makes those places special?


----------



## T7 Bateman (Apr 28, 2010)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Americans don't even speak English well themselves



So true but I think they should learn English because it will be better for them. If you can't speak English it hard for people to understand what you want and need.


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> *And no one here is saying that they shouldn't speak English*! Let's remember that before the United States took over, states like Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, etc.,* were already Spanish speaking regions before English was even introduced to these areas*.



Your kidding me, right?

If anything, we were a Native American speaking country first and then the Spanish people came in a butcher the Natives and took their lands. 

Its America, our language is English. Learn it or leave. We'd learn a language to be in there country.


----------



## bobomb (Apr 28, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> Your kidding me, right?
> 
> If anything, we were a Native American speaking country first and then the Spanish people came in a butcher the Natives and took their lands.
> 
> Its America, our language is English. Learn it or leave. We'd learn a language to be in there country.



You should learn our history my friend. Mexicans were native americans until they gained their independence. They had very little say in what happened to their land during the Mexican-American war. 

Florida was bought from Spain, and the natives who were already there, well, their descendants became Americans as a result of the purchase. 

Many of the native american languages still exist today, but they are dying out. If we occupy another nation's land and force them to speak our language, it's not very nice. 

We live in a complicated world and we can't just give all the land back. It should be a common courtesy to speak the native tongue, even though in America's history, we haven't always given the same courtesy. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And before England took Wales, Ireland and Scotland they had languages too...so do you have a point or do you just think that makes those places special?



Well in case you weren't made aware, to this day, they still speak Welsh, Irish, and Scottish. If you don't get my point, you aren't ever going to get it.  

Let's move on, next topic.


----------



## Psycho (Apr 28, 2010)

isn't knowing english a obligation to get a visa?

EDIT: or at least agreeing to learn english?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> Well in case you weren't made aware, to this day, they still speak Welsh and Scottish. If you don't get my point, you aren't ever going to get it.
> 
> Let's move on, next topic.



The point is you don't have one. 

Stop trying to be patronizing, no one is saying they have to give up their language, I know the Welsh can still speak their language but they still use English as their primary one.


----------



## Xion (Apr 28, 2010)

Degelle said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just like we have in Sweden: all immigrants are obligated to learn Swedish.



Well that would explain why there are no immigrants in Sweden.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 28, 2010)

Xion said:


> Well that would explain why there are no immigrants in Sweden.



Don't know why there wouldn't be, Swedish women are hot and they aren't have loads of kids...all the better right?


----------



## Mael (Apr 28, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> American is English, since our language originally came from England...right?
> I originally speak Na'vi, so yea, I'm alien.



Purge the alien.


----------



## Terra Branford (Apr 28, 2010)

bobomb said:


> You should learn our history my friend. Mexicans were native americans until they gained their independence. They had very little say in what happened to their land during the Mexican-American war.
> 
> Florida was bought from Spain, and the natives who were already there, well, their descendants became Americans as a result of the purchase.
> 
> ...



Um. Do you not know your history?

The Spanish invaded Mexico, where they slaughtered tribes their and took their lands. Fleeing to America, some of those surviving tribes tried to rebuild. The Spanish then moved north, where they took Tenochtitlan. Through 1539, they moved up the Coronado and Santa Fe, pass the rivers of Pecos River and Rio Grande.
(Encase you didn't know, those places were Native American Empires)

They then headed toward De Soto, a little south of Ohio River and east of Arkansas River, which is North West of Fort Caroline and St. Augustine. Where they did even more slaughter. They cut their stomachs open while they were alive, hung the children by their feet naked, stabbed the with spears, burned them over fires while hanging them, chopping their hands off, setting their tents on fire whilst they were in them, letting savage dogs rip them apart and finally, which is one of The Cruelties used by the Spaniards on the Indians, or so the history books say. From 1599 of the English version of the "Destruction of the Indies" by, one of my favorite people of that time, Bartolome De Las Casa.

Here are some images of what they've done.

*Spoiler*: __ 











I know more History than you seem to think, bobomb. 


> The truth is, Mexicans are of Spanish decent after being conquered by the Conquistadors who enslaved them until Maximillian fell!


Or, if that didn't get my point across:


> The Mexican is a half-breed, spanish and indian, as this was their way of conquering, and domesticating the natives, inter breed them until their identity was gone.





> They are made up of a mixture of Spanish or, Aztec, Inca or Mayan Indian.



Being mixed up Spanish and Aztec or Inca, changes things, my friend. Mexicans aren't Natives of America, at all. No doubt there are Natives living in Mexico, since that was their places first....

But, science has proved Mexicans no longer have strong ties to Native Indies. They have been mixed too much.



> We live in a complicated world and we can't just give all the land back. It should be a common courtesy to speak the native tongue, even though in America's history, we haven't always given the same courtesy.



That's true. We came in, lied to Native Americans, tricked them, signed treaties (forget the correct word for right now) back stabbed them, stole their land, killed them when something didn't go our way and killed them when they finally got some land in 1756-1763. I forget the exact date.

We have done a lot of wrong to the Natives and I wish we didn't, because Timucuas of Coastal Florida welcomed Jacques Le Moyne in 1564. The Timucaus hoped the French would help defend them against the Spanish, who plundered the coast in pursuit of Indian slaves. They gave gold, weapons,,food, blankets and other trading items! They were so kinda to the French. 



> isn't knowing english a obligation to get a visa?


Yes, but they avoid that being being illegal and staying away from US laws.

Anyway, on topic!

They should learn the language of the country at least, since they illegally came into the country and steal jobs and stuffez.



Mael said:


> Purge the alien.



Well, actually, I came off the older race, Da'vi'na, the one with two glottal stops.

Please don't purge me! I'm green, not a smurf. Doesn't that get some mercy?


----------



## biar (Apr 29, 2010)

Degelle said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just like we have in Sweden: all immigrants are obligated to learn Swedish.



Dude, Swedes speak perfect English anyway


----------



## Masaki (Apr 29, 2010)

They should learn English, yes.  But this doesn't mean we have to give those who don't speak it well a hard time.  Let me tell you, I'm in a foreign country now, learning their language (just for a semester), and I'm having a hard time improving.


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## Nic (Apr 29, 2010)

yes they should be obligated to learn it.  Not to mention it's really beneficial for immigrants to do so.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Masaki said:


> They should learn English, yes.  But this doesn't mean we have to give those who don't speak it well a hard time.  Let me tell you, I'm in a foreign country now, learning their language (just for a semester), and I'm having a hard time improving.


After one semester? And people come here for years sometimes and never learn ours correctly.


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## kizuna (Apr 29, 2010)

If someone is moving into the country, they should learn the language. It's common courtesy - and sense. I wouldn't move somewhere and not learn the language. It's kinda obnoxious, ya know. Obviously if it's for a holiday, I don't learn the whole language - just a few basics...


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## Bungee Gum (Apr 29, 2010)

I am not giving up english, the damn dirty mexicans want to make us all speak spanish, well, i say Begone!


----------



## Zhariel (Apr 29, 2010)

We get ragged on for wanting them to learn English. Hey, it will only help them.


----------



## Kuromaku (Apr 29, 2010)

Well, if you are intending to live for an extended period of time/permanently within a country, you are pretty much obliged to learn the native language.

Immigrants usually make an effort to do so, with the effects of this visible in the increased use of English found in descendants of immigrants (little use in the first, bilingualism in the second generation, and a focus on English by the third generation).

As seen, others have already given similar, if not better answers.


----------



## abcd (Apr 29, 2010)

Its the americans who should learn other languages when they go to other countries


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## bobomb (Apr 29, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> Um. Do you not know your history?
> 
> The Spanish invaded Mexico, where they slaughtered tribes their and took their lands. Fleeing to America, some of those surviving tribes tried to rebuild. The Spanish then moved north, where they took Tenochtitlan. Through 1539, they moved up the Coronado and Santa Fe, pass the rivers of Pecos River and Rio Grande.
> (Encase you didn't know, those places were Native American Empires)
> ...



Wow, this is too long to read. 

You shouldn't need to take your time to look things up in Wikipedia to convince me, but it's cool too see that you are taking the time to do some of your own research.


----------



## Darklyre (Apr 29, 2010)

Honestly, as the son of first-generation immigrants, I don't find this to be much of a problem.

My parents were boat people from Vietnam, and even today they can barely speak understandable English and need me to translate legal documents and talk on the phone with customer service reps for them.

That said, I was born in the US. When I was in Kindergarten, I went in speaking only Vietnamese, and my teacher told my parents that I needed to learn English. Apparently it worked too well, because now I can barely speak Vietnamese. 

tl;dr, the point is that if cultural norms force English as a requirement for living in the US, then you don't really need laws to promote the language. All of those insular immigrant communities will still have people who are fully bilingual, and after a generation or two they'll eventually convert to primarily English-speaking communities.


----------



## Sephiroth (Apr 29, 2010)

English or GTFO, best thing that can be said.

But really, it should only be required if you plan on having a job.


----------



## Valtieri (Apr 29, 2010)

Of course. 
It's common courtesy that if you are going to migrate to another country that you are able to speak their language.
I wouldn't even visit another country for a holiday without learning the basics of their language.
It just makes things easier for everyone.


----------



## zuul (Apr 29, 2010)

Starhunter said:


> Tim James, candidate for Alaskan governor had this to say concerning all immigrants in the US.
> 
> "We speak English...Learn it.
> 
> So do you think immigrants are obligated to speak English?



Yes. That seems reasonable.
Plus English is not German , it's actually easy to learn how to speak a not perfect but understandable English... But the government needs to make an effort to help them people by giving them free or at least low-cost teachings.

If not everyone speak the same language, it just shut people out of one another and promote xenophobia.

Should I bring the Belgian case ??


----------



## Mael (Apr 29, 2010)

Caelus said:


> We get ragged on for wanting them to learn English. Hey, it will only help them.



Because we're raaaaaaaaaaaaaciiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiist. 

No seriously, it's one thing to struggle with English and that's completely understandable, but some people I've seen simply refuse to attempt to learn it.  Have fun being lower-class all your life unless you want to get with the program.  Having completely one-sided ethnic neighborhoods doesn't help much either.  Things like this however will fade with the younger generations seeing how English is still a dominant language in many media outlets.



			
				abcd said:
			
		

> Its the americans who should learn other languages when they go to other countries



Ah yes...but are we going to live in said countries?


----------



## perman07 (Apr 29, 2010)

Darklyre said:


> Honestly, as the son of first-generation immigrants, I don't find this to be much of a problem.
> 
> My parents were boat people from Vietnam, and even today they can barely speak understandable English and need me to translate legal documents and talk on the phone with customer service reps for them.
> 
> ...


Well, I don't think actually _knowing_ the language is the main issue. The main issue is mandatory language _learning_. Many immigrants coming into other countries don't know the language. You can make them join mandatory courses, which helps speed up integration, but you can't guarantee immigrants learning the language from just a few courses. 

And once immigrants have been in a country for too long without becoming good at the language, the question then becomes whether you throw them out or not.

Personally, I am opposed to throwing immigrants out if they don't become good at the language, but I do think mandatory language learning is a policy with positive effects.


----------



## DisgustingIdiot (Apr 29, 2010)

Is this really an issue? Even if you can't speak english upon arriving in an english speaking country I'm willing to bet that after a few months your english will be pretty good.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Rob` said:


> Is this really an issue? Even if you can't speak english upon arriving in an english speaking country I'm willing to bet that after a few months your english will be pretty good.


There are people here years that can't. Not just that, we don't make it a part of citizenship its possible to become a citizen and still not know how to speak it well.


----------



## perman07 (Apr 29, 2010)

Rob` said:


> Is this really an issue? Even if you can't speak english upon arriving in an english speaking country I'm willing to bet that after a few months your english will be pretty good.


For most people yeah, on the other hand, some people can spend their entire lives in another country without properly learning the language. I think mandatory language learning can help somewhat, not that it's a wonder solution.


----------



## Goobhunter (Apr 29, 2010)

Rob said:
			
		

> Is this really an issue?



I didn't think so either when I made this thread but...now it has 6 pages.


----------



## TorQuoise (Apr 29, 2010)

Immigrants should be required to learn english when they come here, but to not give drivers test in another language isnt a solution. what he is basically suggesting is that people who cant speak the language well enough to pass a test be denied drivers licenses. thats the only thing it will accomplish.


----------



## |)/-\\/\/|\| (Apr 29, 2010)

Well at least they should agree to have English classes.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

|)/-\\/\/|\| said:


> Well at least they should agree to have English classes.


But then you're stealing their cultural identity.


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

Starhunter said:


> Tim James, candidate for Alaskan governor had this to say concerning all immigrants in the US.
> 
> "We speak English...Learn it.
> 
> So do you think immigrants are obligated to speak English?



I was an immigrant to America before I became a legal citizen. I had to learn English so I see no harm in this.


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

I want to put what the Alaska governor candidate in perspective though. I definitely think people need to learn some English to function properly, but he wants to get rid of any different languages on driving tests and most likely everywhere else. He only wants english, which is a very different story. People can't just magically learn in a day, and certainly if they need to drive they need to be able to take the test.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> I want to put what the Alaska governor candidate in perspective though. I definitely think people need to learn some English to function properly, but he wants to get rid of any different languages on driving tests and most likely everywhere else. He only wants english, which is a very different story. People can't just magically learn in a day, and certainly if they need to drive they need to be able to take the test.


Then they don't need to be driving? There's not many signs in other languages and it costs too much to add them all.


----------



## dummy plug (Apr 29, 2010)

in Rome, do what the Romans do


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then they don't need to be driving? There's not many signs in other languages and it costs too much to add them all.



Thats my point, then you are making the process to actually integrate much harder. They won't be able to work if they can't drive, which probably means the visa programs won't accept many of them and they wouldn't be able to stay because they can't make money. Plus, would everything trying to teach them english also be in english? Its perfect examples of anti-immigration and imperialism. People need to learn english, but that doesn't mean we just ignore every other culture.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Thats my point, then you are making the process to actually integrate much harder. They won't be able to work if they can't drive, which probably means the visa programs won't accept many of them and they wouldn't be able to stay because they can't make money. Plus, would everything trying to teach them english also be in english? Its perfect examples of anti-immigration and imperialism. People need to learn english, but that doesn't mean we just ignore every other culture.


Bullshit, that's what the bus is for. I don't care what their excuse is, if they can't read English they can ride a bus to work. A license is not a right and don't start that "its imperialism". It's nothing to do with that that, if it is then sign France, Sweden, Canada and the UK up as being imperialist.


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Bullshit, that's what the bus is for. I don't care what their excuse is, if they can't read English they can ride a bus to work.



No one would immigrate here with those types of policies, and our economy and culture would stagnate. Canada has signs in French and English because they know a lot of people their speak both or just one. Big surprise, a huge majority here speaks spanish.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No one would immigrate here with those types of policies, and our economy and culture would stagnate.


People still migrate to England and if they stop migrating that's not my problem. 

It won't stagnate the culture, where is the proof of that?


----------



## perman07 (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> People still migrate to England and if they stop migrating that's not my problem.
> 
> It won't stagnate the culture, where is the proof of that?


There are probably different policies in these other countries though, they've just sorted which countries demands more in one group and who demands less in the other group. Petenshi is right, just because you make demands doesn't mean you can't somewhat facilitate certain things like tests if they are tests one might oneself doing before having mastered the language. It wouldn't surprise me if for instance Sweden has some arrangements for people before they know the language, even if they make demands later.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

perman07 said:


> There are probably different policies in these other countries though, they've just sorted which countries demands more in one group and who demands less in the other group. Petenshi is right, just because you make demands doesn't mean you can't somewhat facilitate certain things like tests if they are tests one might oneself doing before having mastered the language.



He's not right because its nothing to do with imperialism or any of the other shit he said. And guess what? If you can't read the test, you can't read the road signs and you're a road hazard. We don't need to facilitate people being on the road who can't read English. Hell if you're illiterate are they going to give you a picture test?


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> People still migrate to England and if they stop migrating that's not my problem.
> 
> It won't stagnate the culture, where is the proof of that?



If you can't understand the impact of immigration on culture, then I suggest you look at history. We would have almost nothing we have today without immigration, so it would be logical for me to assume that our culture would not change anymore as it is now if immigration stagnated. Food, clothing, Television. I mean, its all pretty simple. I can provide examples if you wish though, Secondly, learning more than one language is proven to increase verbal intelligence and many cognitive abilities. The policies you are promoting would also promote kids not to immerse themselves in other culture. People are already ignorant to the world outside of the US. Many can't look at a map and say where iraq is, nor do they know much about foreign policy. Third, it increases tolerance of different cultures. The more we learn about them, the less chances there are that there will be any tension. If we start closing ourselves off, basically like what your suggesting then I assure you our country will have many more conflicts than we need. In conclusion, our country has always and should always be a melting pot. Our country wasn't founded on the belief that american is just one thing, but many things. Our country has thrived off new culture and immigration. The US is like a grand market where people come to live their lives in a melding of so many things. I would hate to see my kids grow up in a place that fosters hate and dismay for other cultures.

And yes, it is imperialistic to say here everything you know is wrong and only western ideas are true. Forget your spanish history, you live in america now and thus need a new life and identity. I agree learning english promotes living in our society but that doesn't mean we shut their culture down.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> If you can't understand the impact of immigration on culture, then I suggest you look at history. We would have almost nothing we have today without immigration, so it would be logical for me to assume that our culture would not change anymore as it is now if immigration stagnated. .


If you can't understand that your slippery slope argument "this will put a halt to immigration" is first and foremost wrong, and that you basing all of this on that assumption makes you even more wrong, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one rickety, hole ridden basket? 

Maybe that its not 1890 and we can get things without people coming here to give them to us? 

Maybe that if someone really wants to move here they can learn the damn language and not inconvenience those of us that already know it and those who bothered to learn?


----------



## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> No one would immigrate here with those types of policies, and our economy and culture would stagnate. Canada has signs in French and English because they know a lot of people their speak both or just one. Big surprise, a huge majority here speaks spanish.



Thats a lie. I came here knowing those policies.


----------



## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> If you can't understand that your slippery slope argument "this will put a halt to immigration" is first and foremost wrong, and that you basing all of this on that assumption makes you even more wrong, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one rickety, hole ridden basket?
> 
> Maybe that its not 1890 and we can get things without people coming here to give them to us?
> 
> Maybe that if someone really wants to move here they can learn the damn language and not inconvenience those of us that already know it and those who bothered to learn?



So you expect everyone that immigrates to spend years and years becoming fluent before coming here? Its not a slippery slope argument, if you force everyone to know English and things are only printed in English, why would we expect anyone who doesn't speak english very well to come here. It is a catch-22. Not to mention, think how many jobs cater to other cultures. Now since we don't need those now that everyone knows english a lot of people are out of jobs. I mean, really what is this? Do you just hate everything that is different? And no, america will always put its own spin onto whatever information it gets. This happens with every country, but what happens is there are no first hand accounts. Everything would be a second hand account. I see this is going nowhere fast though, point is there is no way that america will only have english and if we do, I assure you it will be changed soon after once they see the effects.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Thats a lie. I came here knowing those policies.



More proof. 



Petenshi said:


> So you expect everyone that immigrates to spend years and years becoming fluent before coming here? Its not a slippery slope argument,


It's the definition of a slippery slope argument.


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## Petenshi (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> More proof.
> 
> 
> It's the definition of a slippery slope argument.



Look, if you want to foster hate against other cultures thats fine. Don't bring america the country that was founded on its diversity and freedoms into it though. Its these types of ideas that get us into wars, and stagnate our country. I agree people should learn english, I disagree that we should cut ourselves off from every other language. In fact the ENGLISH we speak now has been influenced by the countless languages that have passed our shores. We steal there words, and we change some others. English itself is proof of how intertwined other cultures and languages are to us.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> *Look, if you want to foster hate against other cultures thats fine. *Don't bring america the country that was founded on its diversity and freedoms into it though. Its these types of ideas that get us into wars, and stagnate our country. I agree people should learn english, I disagree that we should cut ourselves off from every other language.



Its not fostering hate you keep on pulling these arguments out of nowhere making assumptions that just aren't right and it just makes your argument look weaker and weaker. You're arguing from a strictly emotional, sensational stand point. 

I've brought actual facts to the table, such as the fact that there are road signs you need to know to obey and possibly instructions from police officers. In response you jump to another sensationalist conclusion just before someone of foreign origin comes in and calls you wrong. 

Tell me how are you even making this argument anymore?


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## amazingfunksta (Apr 29, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Time my ass, I see plenty of people here learning English within two years. Point being it should be part of becoming a citizen.



私が二年間の中で日本語を習ったそうして日本語を話せるけどたぶん悪いですよ！

No kidding, I learned how to get around in Japanese within two years, and I'm pretty sure that if I practiced all the time, I would be speaking it pretty fluently by now... It's not that hard to learn a language people, just takes effort.


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## LoboFTW (Apr 29, 2010)

English mother fucker, do you speak it?


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## perman07 (Apr 29, 2010)

LoboFTW said:


> English mother fucker, do you speak it?


The Wire?

10 chars.


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## Tleilaxu (Apr 29, 2010)

abcd said:


> Its the americans who should learn other languages when they go to other countries



Agreed here but that also means thet people who come here need to speak English


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

perman07 said:


> The Wire?
> 
> 10 chars.



*Fail*

Pulp Fiction.


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## ameterasu_41 (Apr 29, 2010)

Unless you expect the American people to learn the language of every person who wants to live here, yes, immigrants need to learn the primary language of the country moving to.


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## Altron (Apr 29, 2010)

ameterasu_41 said:


> Unless you expect the American people to learn the language of every person who wants to live here, yes, immigrants need to learn the primary language of the country moving to.


Why should Americans learn the language of immigrants from different countries who choose to settle in the US? Anyone with a brain knows that English is the language that you need to to know to survive in the U.S. English is the de facto language used in the US. Illegals and legal immigrants who *CHOOSE* to come to the US should know that English is a necessity to be able to get a decent job in the US above fast food and working in the fields picking fruits and vegetables. I doubt people who come to the US for the American Dream, want to end up  working hard day and night in the fields and barely make enough to scrape by.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

Altron said:


> Why should Americans learn the language of immigrants from different countries who choose to settle in the US? Anyone with a brain knows that English is the language that you need to to know to survive in the U.S. English is the de facto language used in the US. Illegals and legal immigrants who *CHOOSE* to come to the US should know that English is a necessity to be able to get a decent job in the US above fast food and working in the fields picking fruits and vegetables. I doubt people who come to the US for the American Dream, want to end up  working hard day and night in the fields and barely make enough to scrape by.



Thats the point he was making.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 29, 2010)

So, I'm assuming that all US servicemen who live on Okinawa speak Japanese.

After all, don't come to live in a country and fail to learn its language.


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## Altron (Apr 29, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> So, I'm assuming that all US servicemen who live on Okinawa speak Japanese.
> 
> After all, don't come to live in a country and fail to learn its language.


Obviously the fact that US Servicemen live on military bases rather than with the general Okinawan population never occurred to you did it? I mean it makes total sense to be on a US Military base and speak only Japanese 24/7.  I am sure wherever US personnel are stationed there are language courses to teach US Servicemen the basics wherever they are stationed in.


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## Proxy05 (Apr 29, 2010)

I think it is important to know the main language of a country one is going to live in. And nowadays English is essential.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> So, I'm *assuming* that all US servicemen who live on Okinawa speak Japanese.
> 
> After all, don't come to live in a country and fail to learn its language.



Either that or they work in an area that Speaks English. EIther way they know enough to live in a Japanese speaking COuntry.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 29, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Either that or they work in an area that Speaks English. EIther way they know enough to live in a Japanese speaking COuntry.



My friend grew up there. You don't need to speak a lick of English to work on Okinawa, since it's a base with tens of thousands of Americans. 

Of course, you don't really need to speak English to live in the US. None of the women who cleaned my room in Vegas could communicate in English, forcing me to use Spanish.


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## r0ckman (Apr 29, 2010)

I don't see why it's a necessity for immigrants in America to learn English. What for? I've worked in a neighborhood where majority of the people speak Spanish and they get along just fine. What good will enforcing a language do?


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

r0ckman said:


> I don't see why it's a necessity for immigrants in America to learn English. What for? I've worked in a neighborhood where majority of the people speak Spanish and they get along just fine. What good will enforcing a language do?



People tend to stick to one area that speaks their language. Did you not like know that? When I moved to America i lived in a area that spoke French. Does that make sense? Yes. But ask one of them to live in an area where no one speaks Spanish and I bet you they couldn't make it without knowing how to speak the Common's man English. (Basic English btw)



Shinigami Perv said:


> My friend grew up there. You don't need to speak a lick of English to work on Okinawa, since it's a *base with tens of thousands of Americans. *
> 
> Of course, you don't really need to speak English to live in the US. None of the women who cleaned my room in Vegas could communicate in English, forcing me to use Spanish.




Did you even read your post? Like really.


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## Razgriez (Apr 29, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> So, I'm assuming that all US servicemen who live on Okinawa speak Japanese.
> 
> After all, don't come to live in a country and fail to learn its language.



Let me tell you. They dont. They may try to learn a little Japanese when they go off base and fuck around but thats it. Its important for us to learn a little bit of it so we arent completely retarded but they wont know most of the language and the workers that work on the base usually learn English since its usually a requirement.

This usually happens at all US military bases too. In the middle east a lot of third country nationals(actual citizens of the country dont do hard labor, so people out of country come to live in these countries for work) knew English.

A lot of them still may not of knew English but they understood some of it.


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## KuKu (Apr 29, 2010)

It's common sense to learn the language of the place you're going to live.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 29, 2010)

I can't learn english it's too difficult, it's better if the locals learn my language when i go in their country......


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> So, I'm assuming that all US servicemen who live on Okinawa speak Japanese.
> 
> After all, don't come to live in a country and fail to learn its language.


You can't seem to get a good argument together. Let me tell you why this one is stupid, because American bases are considered American soil, just like Embassies. And the people in them are ciitzens of the other country. 

If you're going to just throw out random arguments, at least make them make sense. The truth of the matter is there's no reason for this not to be happening and you're just doing your usual anti-anything-American ranting.


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## r0ckman (Apr 29, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> People tend to stick to one area that speaks their language. Did you not like know that? When I moved to America i lived in a area that spoke French. Does that make sense? Yes. But ask one of them to live in an area where no one speaks Spanish and I bet you they couldn't make it without knowing how to speak the Common's man English. (Basic English btw)




I understand this, but what I am trying to say is that I don't see the point in enforcing a particular language when it's not necessary. It would be beneficial for anyone to learn English in the US because it's the language that is spoken the most, but people live reasonably without learning it, so what's the point?


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

r0ckman said:


> I understand this, but what I am trying to say is that I don't see the point in enforcing a particular language when it's not necessary. It would be beneficial for anyone to learn English in the US because it's the language that is spoken the most, but people live reasonably without learning it, so what's the point?



So what happens when they try to communicate with someone of not of their native language for help?


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## amazingfunksta (Apr 29, 2010)

r0ckman said:


> I understand this, but what I am trying to say is that I don't see the point in enforcing a particular language when it's not necessary. It would be beneficial for anyone to learn English in the US because it's the language that is spoken the most, but people live reasonably without learning it, so what's the point?



Okay, we don't have to "enforce" English, we just have to make sure we're not breaking our backs trying to cater to every single individual who comes to this country and speaks something other than English.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 29, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqU3EMPJFo[/YOUTUBE]


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## taeko (Apr 29, 2010)

it is realy usefull to speak english or the languages of the country you live in. if you don't it's fine but you cannot blame anyone for that choice.


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## r0ckman (Apr 29, 2010)

It's really the immigrants who are suffering if they don't learn English, but a lot of them live fine without learning any English at all. I just don't see how it crosses anyone's mind to have to tell someone "learn English or don't bother living here!"


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## Minorin (Apr 29, 2010)

Quote aside, note that the candidate is actually asking the tests for driving to be in English, not for everyone to learn English in general.


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## Psallo a Cappella (Apr 29, 2010)

Yes, they should, and almost every state and area I have been to does provide language instruction services for free, or for a small fee. There are also dozens of free tutors near college campuses (this includes community colleges, which are actually great for this considering there are more adults and non-traditional students, so the programs for language instruction are quite strong). I don't believe people are refusing to learn it. The only issue I have, to be frank, is wasting money to upkeep signs with more than one (usually, three or more) languages. But then, I think the ridiculous amount of signs we have is a pet peeve of mine. To me, that's catering to them instead of oh, I don't know, recruiting people to assist in language instruction and generate some jobs. Being bilingual will not only help the incoming immigrants - it would help us, too. And those that come here and successfully learn English would be immensely beneficial to the /others/ coming in - providing newcomers with tips and strategies on how to grasp the language. As someone who's taken Italian and Japanese lessons, taking about three years of Spanish and getting around Puerto Rico (in which some areas did not have English - even certain areas of the airport), I will not point my finger at someone and just say "Learn it" without assisting. It's damn difficult to learn another language, especially those far removed from your own (Japanese, for instance), and I've never met someone unwilling to assist me. But printing things in multiple languages just to whitewash the real issue - a lack of education and willingness to teach - just pisses me off. Interaction is the best way to learn - not running off a million pamphlets and telling them to GTFO.

If you know English and it gets you around, you aren't required to learn anything else because it's permeated so far into macro/micro - level society. That's fine. Knowing English is useful for any broad travelling, I would guess, not just the US. Still, I think it is useful for bridging the language gap - we don't need any more justifications for the "Us" and "Them".


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## Bender (Apr 29, 2010)

They don't have to 

But they should if they expect to communicate with anyone.


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## jugni (Apr 29, 2010)

I think it is helpful to learn the main language of the country because it allows one to communicate with more people, but if the attitude is "one must learn because you came here" is not very helpful to the immigrant and personally, I find it very silly. When a immigrant group comes to a country, they do not only take some cultural aspects of the host country, they also bring and share their culture from their native country. It is not a one way relationship, it goes both ways.  

If one is talking about U.S. or countries similar to U.S. with their large immigrant population, one needs to truly look at the various dynamics of the immigrant population and different circumstances faced by them. It is not always as easy as "learn it." There are many people I know personally and in general who attend day or night classes to learn the language while they work and take care of their families. Yes, it is free, and many individuals take opportunity of this to learn the language, and I am sure it is helpful to them. Many work many jobs and other commitments and cannot directly take classes, but try their best in learning it through meeting people. For many adult immigrant population, it can be challenging to learn a whole new language unlike that of younger group or their children who attend school regularly and are able to become fluent.

Many cannot express themselves the same in English as they might express themselves in their native language. Before one can go into "learning" the new language, there  are steps that are needed in the middle to successfully transition from their arrival to a new country, stabilizing the financial and family situation, being part of the community, and learning the language. Before one can truly put their effort into learning the new language, there is crucial need of assistance which is provided by language assistance programs in different areas of their lives. It can be as simple as having important messages written in Spanish or Vietnamese at public transportation services or proving assistance in finding a job. The need to learn English and the many opportunities it offers by learning it of course cannot be replaced with language assistance, but it is needed as bridge between the arrival of immigrants to being a part of the community and contributing member of the society in their new country.

(Also,personally, I like seeing the display of different languages all over the place, and people speaking different languages near me....it is strangely soothing)


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## Kind of a big deal (Apr 29, 2010)

Let's be hypotheticall: what if, at some point in the future, the majority of the US speaks Spanish? Will people be willing to convert to that? The only reason people want immigrants to speak english is because that's what the majority speaks. But the more immigrants that speak Spanish come into the country,the less this argument becomes relevant.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 29, 2010)

IF YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH.....


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## Minorin (Apr 29, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Let's be hypotheticall: what if, at some point in the future, the majority of the US speaks Spanish? Will people be willing to convert to that? The only reason people want immigrants to speak english is because that's what the majority speaks. But the more immigrants that speak Spanish come into the country,the less this argument becomes relevant.



I think it now (or should be) more of an international issue. Most non-English speaking countries active in the international community teach English in their countries. From my point of view (and I'm Asian-American, just for some background), English in the United States is a decision to allow one language to become the medium between all the cultures coming in. 

I actually don't agree with signs that have multiple languages (as LaMaraiposa pointed out) because that's just catering to the "majority" minority in some point of time. Having English be the standard language in the United States actually makes it more equal amongst the minorities as opposed to trying to offer different languages for who most people are from. This doesn't give England any advantage anyway since we don't have _that_ many English people coming into the United States, right? .

As an Asian-American, I have to deal with a lot of Asians who don't speak English as their first language (scenario: new students coming in, call that exotic guy who's Asian but born in the United States to translate~!), and even though their English is more Engrish than English, they do fine in school and things such as driver's license tests. Why? They (...or at least the ones who do pass; I'm obviously not implying that all Asians work hard) study hard enough to pass.

//however, the way many Americans (especially those who don't have a recent immigration history in their family) who believe English should be more mandatory in the culture are going about it can be pretty rude. Just saying "learn it" doesn't really help promote good relations between the ideals of "American culture" and the American dream.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Apr 29, 2010)

Well it's different, for tourists of for student. When you're tourist, it's ok if you don't speak english....but well it's better to speak at least few words in english to respect the locals. When you're a student, you have to learn the local language, it's normal. If you want to live in the US....how can you live in the US and don't speak english. Even if it's possible, it show you don't give a f... about the country you live and its citizens.


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## Euraj (Apr 29, 2010)

I laughed my ass off when I saw that. Maybe it's cause I've long since been desensitized to anything connected to racism or cultural clashing, but I just found it funny. I'm going to learn Spanish eventually for when this mess works itself out.


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## Minorin (Apr 29, 2010)

Le Male said:


> Well it's different, for tourists of for student. When you're tourist, it's ok if you don't speak english....but well it's better to speak at least few words in english to respect the locals. When you're a student, you have to learn the local language, it's normal. If you want to live in the US....how can you live in the US and don't speak english. Even if it's possible, it show you don't give a f... about the country you live and its citizens.



Again, people need to RTFA (I feel like I'm on Slashdot). This is a platform that calls for the state driver's license test to be only in English, not Arabic, Chinese, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831).


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## Hibari Kyoya (Apr 29, 2010)

Le Male said:


> IF YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH.....



 well said


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## blakstealth (Apr 29, 2010)

It would be great of they did.


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## Wolfarus (Apr 29, 2010)

Of course they should learn -at least- basic english.

Why would you go to another country and expect them to learn YOUR language just so you can talk to them? Its their country, learn THEIR language or gtfo.

Wish the mexicans would get this point thru their thick skulls..


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## Toby (Apr 29, 2010)

You should learn to speak English. Final. It is not only necessary in the English-speaking countries, but it helps you a lot in getting a job. The argument is much stronger than ever because it is fully possible for large masses of immigrants to form small communities of their own in which the law can become supplementary, and that shit shouldn't have to stand. People have rights and the right of police to interfere in order to protect them is an important right, often neglected when a community isolates itself. I've seen cops drive around areas of the city to prevent angering the residents who aren't comfortable with their presence. That's not right.

Some communities shield themselves by refusing to learn the language, which affects the whole community and the country to boot if it drags down the economic efficiency of the area, since that breeds crime. It is the poor and unemployed who are most likely to turn to crime, so this simply has to be learned.



perman07 said:


> I think not knowing the language is often a bigger problem in non-English countries since so many people know English. And English-speakers are often the worst sinners Lousy, entitled people too used to surfing by on your English



On the other hand knowing English is absolutely fundamental wherever you go if you want to make sure that you have a skill that can be transferred across borders. All countries need English-speakers. It's a useful language too and we're only beginning to adjust to its power in business on a global scale.


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## jugni (Apr 29, 2010)

Minorin said:


> I think it now (or should be) more of an international issue. Most non-English speaking countries active in the international community teach English in their countries. From my point of view (and I'm Asian-American, just for some background), English in the United States is a decision to allow one language to become the medium between all the cultures coming in.
> 
> I actually don't agree with signs that have multiple languages (as LaMaraiposa pointed out) because that's just catering to the "majority" minority in some point of time. Having English be the standard language in the United States actually makes it more equal amongst the minorities as opposed to trying to offer different languages for who most people are from. This doesn't give England any advantage anyway since we don't have _that_ many English people coming into the United States, right? .
> 
> ...



English is definitely important these days, as it has become more of an international language between different countries of the world, but for me, I like the different opportunities I have where I can communicate with people through different languages. I do not deny the importance of the English language or the opportunities it offers, but there are many things one can learn through different languages as well.  Also, many people do put great effort in learning it. I do agree that learning it will offer them a lot more opportunities, but there are different backgrounds and experiences of different immigrants. 

With regard to having signs in different language, I appreciate them because it is so helpful to many people. Many immigrants, especially the elderly immigrants, appreciate that they can read the signs and travel around on their own and do not need to be dependent on others. Although the signs are not in any of my native languages or that of my grand parents, I still appreciate them because they are still helpful to many people. Recent immigrants, who do not have cars or cannot afford cars, can travel to their work more easily if they can understand the various signs.


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## kyochi (Apr 29, 2010)

Well, this is a no-brainer.. Of course someone has to learn a country's native language if they want to live/work/visit the place. 

Lucky I don't have to learn english. :v I'm living in Mexico. 


...Oh wait-


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## Velocity (Apr 29, 2010)

How can you live in a country and not speak the official language?


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## Wolfarus (Apr 29, 2010)

Lyra said:


> How can you live in a country and not speak the official language?



Ya dont live in the US, especially the southern states, do ya? 

And to give a non-smartass reply.. the 1st problem is that the US government has yet to make english our "offical" language on paper / law. So immigrants and their advocate groups can say that they dont 
-have- to learn english by law in order to work / live here.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 29, 2010)

Lyra said:


> How can you live in a country and not speak the official language?



Because America doesn't have an official language. English is the most spoken language in America, but it's not the official language. Hopes that answer your question.


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## Velocity (Apr 29, 2010)

Wolfarus said:


> Ya dont live in the US, especially the southern states, do ya?
> 
> And to give a non-smartass reply.. the 1st problem is that the US government has yet to make english our "offical" language on paper / law. So immigrants and their advocate groups can say that they dont
> -have- to learn english by law in order to work / live here.



No, I'm British. 

But even so, perhaps I should've said the national language or the most prominent language. Which is English for you guys (albeit English hacked to death with terrible spelling ) if I recall correctly. You can't go to a foreign country and expect to be able to live there comfortably if you can't speak a lick of the local lingo. I definitely think every country should have a law that requires you are at least moderately fluent in a predesignated language for that specific country.

If anything, it'd make those call centres less of a pain.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Let's be hypotheticall: what if, at some point in the future, the majority of the US speaks Spanish? Will people be willing to convert to that? The only reason people want immigrants to speak english is because that's what the majority speaks. But the more immigrants that speak Spanish come into the country,the less this argument becomes relevant.



I'd leave before I learned another language, lets put it that way.


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## Wolfarus (Apr 29, 2010)

@ Lyra

well yes you'd think so. But unfortunately, all the lobbyists for the industries that rely on cheap mexican labor for their profits keep such idea's out of the voter's hands.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 29, 2010)

Wolfarus said:


> @ Lyra
> 
> well yes you'd think so. But unfortunately, all the lobbyists for the industries that rely on cheap mexican labor for their profits keep such idea's out of the voter's hands.


This is pretty much the problem with most immigration reform right here.


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## Terra Branford (Apr 29, 2010)

bobomb said:


> Wow, this is too long to read.
> 
> You shouldn't need to take your time to look things up in Wikipedia to convince me, but it's cool too see that you are taking the time to do some of your own research.



I -- 
*Spoiler*: __ 



didn't go to Wiki, I freakin' hate that place. If I did, you would see similarites among my sentences. I know because I take History class and dwell in the subject, especially when its about Native Americans. 

I'm sorry I explain to you what exactly happened enough for you to be offend and accuse () me of looking at Wikipedia because I seemed to know what I was talking about. I've done reports on "The Destruction of Indies", Bartolome is, as I said, among my favorite people from that time.

I truly am sorry if it upset you. You said I needed to read my country's history, but I'm obviously the one who needed to say that to you. Because it seems I know more about the _Mexican/American_ history than you.

I was just explaining it as it was.




Sorry my post was too long for you to read. 

or , than you need some help. Because clearly, they don't mention anything from my posts 



Le Male said:


> IF YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH.....






Kind of a big deal said:


> Let's be hypotheticall: what if, at some point in the future, the majority of the US speaks Spanish? Will people be willing to convert to that? The only reason people want immigrants to speak english is because that's what the majority speaks. But the more immigrants that speak Spanish come into the country,the less this argument becomes relevant.



That would only happen if they continue to _illegally_ enter the US and not learn our language and overcrowd the place, forcing us to learn it.

You gonna illegally enter our country, have the decency to learn the language everyone speaks. Maybe with a accent, but they can still speak it.

I guess that's just my point of view, though. I'd like to walk through America where every citizen knows the official language of our country. Our laws weren't written in Spanish, Japanese, Chinese or Russian, they were written in _English_, the language we used since America became America.

They don't have to learn it, but how will they earn a living in a country they can't be understood in? What are the odds of their job having a fluent speaker in their language and not the American language? 

It would make it easier on immigrants....


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## Kage no Yume (Apr 29, 2010)

We have two official languages in Hawai'i:  English and Hawaiian.

So illegal immigrants have a choice if they decide to swim over here .


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## Altron (Apr 29, 2010)

Kage no Yume said:


> We have two official languages in Hawai'i:  English and Hawaiian.
> 
> So illegal immigrants have a choice if they decide to swim over here .


If illegals don't want to learn English what the hell would motivate them to learn Hawaiian?


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## Mello Yellow (Apr 30, 2010)

I do not give a rat's rootey-patootey if people can be bothered to learn any English in the 30 years that they've lived here or not. I live in Chicagoland and there are A LOT of people who don't speak a lick of English. I would think it would improve their quality of life, but whatever....I DO however care if someone waltzes into a store where I work copping attitude because there's no one around who can speak Spanish to them, which happened plenty of times when I worked at the bookstore. I'm npt saying they have to learn English, but I am NOT learning Spanish.



Now, if it were Tagalog....maybe....


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 30, 2010)

Big thread, but does anyone have a statistic proving that people are coming to the US and *refusing* to learn English?

I see a helluva lot of bitching that they "won't learn English", but no actual proof that Latino immigrants won't learn English. If they were offered proper tutoring, for which they probably don't have the time or money, would they refuse to learn English? I doubt it.




Hand Banana said:


> Did you even read your post? Like really.



What are you talking about?


----------



## Altron (Apr 30, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Big thread, but does anyone have a statistic proving that people are coming to the US and *refusing* to learn English?
> 
> I see a helluva lot of bitching that they "won't learn English", but no actual proof that Latino immigrants won't learn English. If they were offered proper tutoring, for which they probably don't have the time or money, would they refuse to learn English? I doubt it.


If you lived in California you wouldn't need statistics. I am pretty sure the fact that places like the DMV are printing pamphlets both Spanish and English is evident enough. Then again considering you probably don't live in California, so you probably don't see that many illegals whichever state you live in.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 30, 2010)

Altron said:


> *If you lived in California you wouldn't need statistics.* I am pretty sure the fact that places like the DMV are printing pamphlets both Spanish and English is evident enough. Then again considering you probably don't live in California, so you probably don't see that many illegals whichever state you live in.



I live in Washington, and we have a large Latino population in the Tri-Cities area. Granted, it's nothing like California, but living in Cali isn't statistical evidence. 

You can't say that we "don't need statistics." Printing those books in Spanish isn't proof that they won't learn English: it doesn't show that they have the opportunity to learn it. 

When I learned rudimentary Spanish in high school, we spent an hour every day with a trained Spanish teacher for two years, yet none of us could fully understand a Spanish driving manual filled with driving nouns we've never heard of before, never mind the unfamiliar verb conjugations. 

People in this thread act like learning another language is some easy thing when you're working full-time, but it's not.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 30, 2010)

Altron said:


> If you lived in California you wouldn't need statistics. I am pretty sure the fact that places like the DMV are printing pamphlets both Spanish and English is evident enough. Then again considering you probably don't live in California, so you probably don't see that many illegals whichever state you live in.


Even if he lived there he would still act as if we should adapt to them. That's pretty much what he does.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 30, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Even if he lived there he would still act as if we should adapt to them. That's pretty much what he does.



I didn't say we should all "adapt to them", whatever that means. 

We should be sensitive and understanding to their situation, though.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 30, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I didn't say we should all "adapt to them", whatever that means.
> 
> We should be sensitive and understanding to their situation, though.


Why? We're being sensitive enough by allowing anyone a chance to come here at all.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Apr 30, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Why? We're being sensitive enough by allowing anyone a chance to come here at all.



And they're working crappy jobs for crappy wages, and not complaining. 

If you want to blame anyone for them being here, it's employers eager to save a buck by hiring illegals rather than paying a living wage. It still confounds me that anyone directs animosity toward the illegals themselves considering they are the effect, not the cause. And they are the exploited, not the exploiters.


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## Altron (Apr 30, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> I live in Washington, and we have a large Latino population in the Tri-Cities area. Granted, it's nothing like California, but living in Cali isn't statistical evidence.



Washington has only a 9.7% latino population versus California's 36.6%. So yeah I am pretty sure if I went up to Washington or a state like Montana, more than likely I wouldn't see that many latino's as I would in California considering they are now making up more than a quarter of California's population.





> You can't say that we "don't need statistics." Printing those books in Spanish isn't proof that they won't learn English: it doesn't show that they have the opportunity to learn it.


They have plenty of opportunity to learn English, hell they have a free class for that right across from where I live in big Black letters in English and Spanish to draw them to learn. Probably the reason you don't see that many opportunities to learn english classes for Latino's is the fact that there aren't that many illegals and latino's in Washington compared to California, Arizona, Texas,etc..? 



> When I learned rudimentary Spanish in high school, we spent an hour every day with a trained Spanish teacher for two years, yet none of us could fully understand a Spanish driving manual filled with driving nouns we've never heard of before, never mind the unfamiliar verb conjugations.


Well did you ever practice Spanish outside of class? Pretty much learning another language requires that you actually use it daily and keep on practicing and getting familiar with it. I learned French and even basic Russian with practice everyday and self-study. Spanish is a joke to learn when you are trying to learn Russian. It all comes down to the individual and whether they in question wants to take the time to learn the native language which will be very beneficial in the long run for them.



> People in this thread act like learning another language is some easy thing when you're working full-time, but it's not.


Come live in California, I can guarantee you will get daily practice of Spanish and you will be fluent within a month. Learning a language isn't impossible, at least learning the basic words will be more helpful in the long run than not speaking any of the native language. 



> We should be sensitive and understanding to their situation, though.


Yeah, but they should know that to get above working in the fields or McDonald's that learning at least Basic English is a necessity worldwide not just in the US.

If someone really wants to learn English, then they will find a way to do so one way or another. You just can't make a good life if you do not speak English that is the reality.


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## Shinigami Perv (Apr 30, 2010)

Altron said:


> Washington has only a 9.7% latino population versus California's 36.6%. So yeah I am pretty sure if I went up to Washington or a state like Montana, more than likely I wouldn't see that many latino's as I would in California considering they are now making up more than a quarter of California's population.
> 
> 
> 
> They have plenty of opportunity to learn English, hell they have a free class for that right across from where I live in big Black letters in English and Spanish to draw them to learn. Probably the reason you don't see that many opportunities to learn english classes for Latino's is the fact that there aren't that many illegals and latino's in Washington compared to California, Arizona, Texas,etc..?



These two paragraphs are a result of not reading what I said. First, I'm admitting that our 10% Hispanic rate is nowhere near yours, but regardless living in an Hispanic area and using anecdotal evidence =/= statistical evidence. And even then, you don't seem to have anecdotal evidence that they *won't*, just that many do not currently know English. 

And like I said, you need both the opportunity to get to a class *and need the time off of work to do it.* Have you ever gone into that English teaching session? I volunteered at an ESL training center here near Seattle, and this one was full (and not only Hispanics, but people of other nationalities.) How do you know they aren't full? 





> *Well did you ever practice Spanish outside of class?* Pretty much learning another language requires that you actually use it daily and keep on practicing and getting familiar with it. I learned French and even basic Russian with practice everyday and self-study. Spanish is a joke to learn when you are trying to learn Russian. It all comes down to the individual and whether they in question wants to take the time to learn the native language which will be very beneficial in the long run for them.



Homework.  They give that stuff: TV programs, exercise materials, etc. I did 2 hours a day with homework + classroom. 

Learning a language in the rudimentary sense does not at all qualify you to speak it in conversation fluently or understand a driving instruction manual. And if you did learn these other languages, you know this. 




> Come live in California, *I can guarantee you will get daily practice of Spanish and you will be fluent within a month.* Learning a language isn't impossible, at least learning the basic words will be more helpful in the long run than not speaking any of the native language.
> 
> Yeah, but they should know that to get above working in the fields or McDonald's that learning at least Basic English is a necessity worldwide not just in the US.
> 
> If someone really wants to learn English, then they will find a way to do so one way or another. You just can't make a good life if you do not speak English that is the reality.



I'm seriously starting to doubt you've attempted to learn another language if you think fluency can come after a month, or any short period of time, especially for older people who don't absorb learning like kids do.  How much Japanese can a person absorb just watching loads of anime? Because if this forum is anything to go by, it's jack shit. 

Do you know how long it takes an older person to learn something new compared to a young person? Chief Justice John Roberts (and my tax law professor, btw), who doesn't know email and can't type, writes everything longhand. He's the Chief Justice, certainly he can learn such a basic function that comes naturally to us, but he can't. It's not easy for older people to learn new systems.


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## Altron (Apr 30, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> These two paragraphs are a result of not reading what I said. First, I'm admitting that our 10% Hispanic rate is nowhere near yours, but regardless living in an Hispanic area and using anecdotal evidence =/= statistical evidence. And even then, you don't seem to have anecdotal evidence that they *won't*, just that many do not currently know English.


Which is all the reason why they should take every opportunity to learn it. Basically the people who disagree with this are implying that they have no opportunity or chance to learn English.



> And like I said, you need both the opportunity to get to a class *and need the time off of work to do it.* Have you ever gone into that English teaching session? I volunteered at an ESL training center here near Seattle, and this one was full (and not only Hispanics, but people of other nationalities.) How do you know they aren't full?


I've been to them and seen the classrooms considering you can pass by and take a look in the rooms where they have the classes and only a quarter of the seats are full, the doors are always open and anyone can come in.



> *Homework.  They give that stuff: TV programs, exercise materials, etc. I did 2 hours a day with homework + classroom. *
> 
> Learning a language in the rudimentary sense does not at all qualify you to speak it in conversation fluently or understand a driving instruction manual. And if you did learn these other languages, you know this.


You really think 2 hours a day is enough to learn a new language? :rofl :rofl :rofl No offense, did your teacher ever tell you that the only way to get better at a language is to actually *practice*? I'm assuming you probably didn't even bother to use Spanish on a daily basis, except when you were in Class or doing homework.

Haven't you been taught that: *"Practice makes perfect?"*



> *I'm seriously starting to doubt you've attempted to learn another language if you think fluency can come after a month, or any short period of time, especially for older people who don't absorb learning like kids do*.  How much Japanese can a person absorb just watching loads of anime? Because if this forum is anything to go by, it's jack shit.


Come down and get a job in California. Seriously you say you don't have the opportunity to learn another language because of a full time job. The point I am making is that since Spanish is so common in fast food jobs, if you worked at a burger king here I can say that you will get plenty of Spanish practice in considering most of the fast food employees only speak Spanish.

If someone really wants to learn a new language then they will find a way to learn it. That is what is amazing about the opportunities that are available but the fact that people are taking advantage of them. *I bet many Americans wouldn't give a rats ass about this bill or whatever if the people who come here illegally and legally at least bothered to learn the language on a basic level.*

You do know that Spanish, Italian, French, and other romance languages originate from Vulgar Latin? If you did you would realize that there are some very similar things between all of them which makes learning them a hell lot easier since you already are familiar with some of their terms.



> Do you know how long it takes an older person to learn something new compared to a young person? Chief Justice John Roberts (and my tax law professor, btw), who doesn't know email and can't type, writes everything longhand. He's the Chief Justice, certainly he can learn such a basic function that comes naturally to us, but he can't. It's not easy for older people to learn new systems.


Yeah of course learning comes differently and also easier to some than others, I agree with that absolutely. However it seems that people who disagree are saying that "Oh well the illegals don't have chances or opportunities to learn the native language, and they had such a rough time getting here."

FYI, I am half Mexican and my father's side of the family is Mexican so considering the fact that I grew with Spanish all my life, it really is easy for me to read and write Spanish, so I never had your problem. Though it really annoys me sometimes, when I am doing something at work and I get bothered to stop because I need to be up front taking care of someone who doesn't speak English and can't even say a damn "Hello or Thank You".


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## Kage no Yume (Apr 30, 2010)

Altron said:


> If illegals don't want to learn English what the hell would motivate them to learn Hawaiian?



Could do it out of spite .

Since Hawaiian is an official language, one could print all legal documents, and go to court, speaking nothing but that language.  Force them to hire a translator and go through procedures via a translator, which is kinda the reverse of the norm for non-English speakers.





Another interesting tidbit:  Alaska also has English as an official language at the state level .  So...they might actually have a point.  Or at least part of one.


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## Petenshi (Apr 30, 2010)

The point is not that people shouldn't learn english, I am all for that. It is that people are not going to be able to easily become fluent within a reasonable amount of time. During that time, there should be provisions. If not, we either will have a bunch of immigrants who are of no use to society because they can't function or very few if any immigrants at all.


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## Psallo a Cappella (Apr 30, 2010)

> They have plenty of opportunity to learn English, hell they have a free class for that right across from where I live in big Black letters in English and Spanish to draw them to learn. Probably the reason you don't see that many opportunities to learn english classes for Latino's is the fact that there aren't that many illegals and latino's in Washington compared to California, Arizona, Texas,etc..?


 Well, tri-state and city areas should and usually do . . . when volunteering in the low-end suburbs of Chicago, they have an amazing amount of programs and not only for Spanish. Community colleges, libraries, schools, volunteer teaching, they're /everywhere/. And the vast majority, I believe, do try (but I've had my bad encounters like everyone else), but I do believe more Hispanics and Latinos should offer their "language bridging" knowledge to others . . . it would likely be more effective. That's something I wish I saw more of amongst them.


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## Le Pirate (Apr 30, 2010)

Isn't basic English required on the citizenship test?


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## Bender (Apr 30, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Because America doesn't have an official language. English is the most spoken language in America, but it's not the official language. Hopes that answer your question.



BANG

That's pretty much an /Thread answer


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## Hand Banana (Apr 30, 2010)

Ninja Zone said:


> Isn't basic English required on the citizenship test?



That and having to know about every single fucking President and a bunch of other shit. The test is really hard as hell.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 30, 2010)

Blaze of Glory said:


> BANG
> 
> That's pretty much an /Thread answer


Don't you get tired of being wrong? Alaska and some other states do have an Official language.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 30, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Don't you get tired of being wrong? Alaska and some other states do have an Official language.



National recognition and state recognition are not the same thing sir.


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## Petenshi (Apr 30, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> That and having to know about every single fucking President and a bunch of other shit. The test is really hard as hell.



Seriously, I mean most of our own citizens don't even know that. We can at least show that we care about educating our own citizens in addition to our immigrants.


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## Razgriez (Apr 30, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Seriously, I mean most of our own citizens don't even know that. We can at least show that we care about educating our own citizens in addition to our immigrants.



You know all the presidents cause I sure as hell dont.


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## Petenshi (Apr 30, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> You know all the presidents cause I sure as hell dont.



Only because I made a song like the alphabet when I was smaller, I can't tell you the order without going through the song .


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## Razgriez (Apr 30, 2010)

Petenshi said:


> Only because I made a song like the alphabet when I was smaller, I can't tell you the order without going through the song .



Hell I cant even name all the states off the top of my head. I always forget 2-3 of them and its hard to retrace your steps cause there are so many. Its A LOT easier when you got a map and you can just put the location to the place.


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## Petenshi (Apr 30, 2010)

Razgriez said:


> Hell I cant even name all the states off the top of my head. I always forget 2-3 of them and its hard to retrace your steps cause there are so many. Its A LOT easier when you got a map and you can just put the location to the place.



Yeah, it also has a lot do with your verbal and Visual lean. Seems like you are more of a visual person when it comes to concepts if thats easier. Some people are good at both. The point is, obviously I think we should all know our American history. However, if we can't get natural born citizens to learn it, why should immigrants? I suppose though, that there really is only English and that to put on the test. Not to mention, it helps them be productive members of society.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 30, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> National recognition and state recognition are not the same thing sir.


Alaskan Governor Candidate said it though, so why should people nationally be butt hurt about it.


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## Hand Banana (Apr 30, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Alaskan Governor Candidate said it though, so why should people nationally be butt hurt about it.



WTF are you talking about? Look fuck him. The point is America doesn't not have an official language.


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## mystictrunks (Apr 30, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Alaskan Governor Candidate said it though, so why should people nationally be butt hurt about it.



Because he was, apparently, speaking to all potential people hoping to come to the U.S. not just Alaska.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Apr 30, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> WTF are you talking about? Look fuck him. The point is America doesn't not have an official language.



I was referring to what he said in the article, no we don't have one though but its definitely something we should do.


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## Hand Banana (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I was referring to what he said in the article, no we don't have one though but its definitely something we should do.



And lets add a set religion too.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> And lets add a set religion too.


What? Was that a slippery slope argument?

How is something that so many other countries have and consider totally fair all of a sudden considered on par with forcing religion on people?


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## Hand Banana (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What? Was that a slippery slope argument?
> 
> How is something that so many other countries have and consider totally fair all of a sudden considered on par with forcing religion on people?



Because I was being sarcastic. Guess it didn't work.  Also America is a Country based on immigration. And if you want to set a language it should be the language of the first Native Americans were using before the white European settlers raped them of their land and culture.


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## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

Countries don't need an official language(s) to be prosperous and ironically if we did settle on official languages they would probably be English and Spanish.


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## fantzipants (May 1, 2010)

Ishinoue said:


> If they wanna live here, they HAVE to learn English. How can they comunicate with us if they can't speak our language?
> 
> Yes, they should speak English, most definitely.



Last time i checked puerto rico is a part of united states and puerto ricans speak spanish all the time.


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## Akimichi Farley (May 1, 2010)

I didn't read through every page so this may have been mentioned already but the US doesn't have an officially recognised language. English is merely the de facto spoken language, it isn't embedded in law. 

It is possible to change this even at this late stage in the game, however consider that there are places in the US where Spanish is the de facto language (Miami for example is 90% Hispanophonic and it is practically impossible for someone who speaks only English to land most jobs there) and doing so wouldn't cause any considerable short term effects so at best it would be a policy with a long term goal. 

This thread should have a poll, I'm curious what most people would think.


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## Lovely (May 1, 2010)

Shinigami Perv said:


> Eh, more of this immigrant scare tactics crap.
> 
> It's hard to learn a new language when you just got here and work all the time. They will eventually learn English, or their children will. A non-issue.



I definitely agree with this.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2010)

LovelyComplex said:


> I definitely agree with this.


Good thing no one cares and that its not the case. If immigrants want to move somewhere and really be a part of that place they could bother to learn the language.


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## Lovely (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Good thing no one cares and that its not the case. If immigrants want to move somewhere and really be a part of that place they could bother to learn the language.




It seems pretty stupid to tell immigrants in America to learn English. Just looks more purposely offensive than genuinely trying to give productive advice. Of course, I'm sure that was intended.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2010)

LovelyComplex said:


> It seems pretty stupid to tell immigrants in America to learn English. Just looks more purposely offensive than genuinely trying to give productive advice. Of course, I'm sure that was intended.


Shows what you know, plenty of countries require you to learn their language for citizenship.


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## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Shows what you know, plenty of countries require you to learn their language for citizenship.



The U.S. isn't other countries though and if you want to got hat route plenty of other countries don't require it.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> The U.S. isn't other countries though and if you want to got hat route plenty of other countries don't require it.


Plenty of those countries also suck ass. 

Meanwhile the ones that do are some of the best places to live in the world. If you want to bring a stupid argument like that to the table, prepare for me to answer with something just as stupid. 

People act like no one makes people learn a language to live in their country or like people are being robbed of their culture. If you like your culture that much, stay where you came from. No one is saying what you can and can't do at home, but when you're at work or when you're out looking at road signs or signs in other places you need to be able to read and speak English and if you can't don't get a job and don't drive anywhere. Not my problem.


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## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Plenty of those countries also suck ass.
> 
> Meanwhile the ones that do are some of the best places to live in the world. If you want to bring a stupid argument like that to the table, prepare for me to answer with something just as stupid.


Your argument is essentially the same as mine. Many countries with a national/official language suck dick. Many without them are pretty prosperous.

However what other countries do isn't important to the U.S. since we aren't other countries. 



> People act like no one makes people learn a language to live in their country or like people are being robbed of their culture. If you like your culture that much, stay where you came from. No one is saying what you can and can't do at home, but when you're at work or when you're out looking at road signs or signs in other places you need to be able to read and speak English and if you can't don't get a job and don't drive anywhere. Not my problem.


The thing is you don't need to be able to read or speak English to do either of those things well.


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## Akkarin323 (May 1, 2010)

Lots of bad points here.

Learning the language of the country you're immigrating too should be up to that country to decide. It is, however, a very European idea. Enough that I would say it is fundamentally un-American. They need not be forced to learn our language. They need not be forced to adopt our pastimes. They need not have to like eating our food. They don't need "our religion" (as an Atheist, I hesitate to say "our" religion, since, as I am trying to say here, the entire concept is un-American).

This is America. Land of the free, home of the brave. The only thing you need to be an American should be goals. Goals for your life or the life of your kids or grandchildren. A reason to live, and a reason to work for it.

It should be economically, socially, and politically impossible to succeed in America (in a larger context, and not just the Spanish/Chinese/Indian/Whatever area of the city you live in) without speaking English. But if you wish to limit your possible future advancement and opportunities, that is your choice in a free society. If you wish to prevent your children learning English (lol? by not sending them to school? Pretty sure that's illegal here actually) well...see my parenthetical statement. Again, it's up to them if they wish to learn it or not. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (May 1, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Your argument is essentially the same as mine. Many countries with a national/official language suck dick. Many without them are pretty prosperous.
> 
> However what other countries do isn't important to the U.S. since we aren't other countries.



So funny all of the popple were using what other countries did to push Healthcare to push so many other things but all of a sudden the U.S. has to be different again. You sound like those Tea Partiers. 



mystictrunks said:


> The thing is you don't need to be able to read or speak English to do either of those things well.



Wrong, road signs are pretty fucking important as is speaking to people at various jobs.


----------



## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> So funny all of the popple were using what other countries did to push Healthcare to push so many other things but all of a sudden the U.S. has to be different again. You sound like those Tea Partiers.


I'm not saying the U.S. has to be different, especially since no matter what happens we will, in fact, be like other countries since there are really only two options.




> Wrong, road signs are pretty fucking important as is speaking to people at various jobs.



Road signs use mostly pictures and color coding. Talking on jobs isn't very important for most of the positions people who don't learn English get.


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## Razgriez (May 1, 2010)

Hand Banana said:


> Because I was being sarcastic. Guess it didn't work.  Also America is a Country based on immigration. And if you want to set a language it should be the language of the first Native Americans were using before the white European settlers raped them of their land and culture.



Brilliant idea! That so all over about a 100 people know the national language then!


----------



## Bender (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Plenty of those countries also suck ass.



Tread carefully CTK you're slowly advancing into the mindset of a fox news political commentator.


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## Terra Branford (May 1, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Wrong, road signs are pretty fucking important as is speaking to people at various jobs.


^ Agreed 

>





> Road signs use mostly pictures and color coding. Talking on jobs isn't very important for most of the positions people who don't learn English get.



They are actually very, very, very important. 

And yes, you need to learn the language to work. What if you boss says "Benny! Don't scan the red papers, just the blue. Fax them quickly too!" and the non-English speaker is like. 

In their Native tongue: "Eh, what did he say?" and then screws it up, gets fired and then moves onto the next job just to be fired again.

Of course my example wasn't all that good, but it was enough for you to understand...I hope.



Hand Banana said:


> Because I was being sarcastic. Guess it didn't work.  Also America is a Country based on immigration. *And if you want to set a language it should be the language of the first Native Americans were using before the white European settlers raped them of their land and culture.*



Why did you bring that up? T.T


----------



## mystictrunks (May 1, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> And yes, you need to learn the language to work. What if you boss says "Benny! Don't scan the red papers, just the blue. Fax them quickly too!" and the non-English speaker is like.
> 
> In their Native tongue: "Eh, what did he say?" and then screws it up, gets fired and then moves onto the next job just to be fired again.
> 
> Of course my example wasn't all that good, but it was enough for you to understand...I hope.


Immigrants who don't learn English usually end working in something like construction or agriculture. Your example doesn't work very well because very few people who have zero English skills will end up working in a job that requires them to know English.


----------



## Terra Branford (May 1, 2010)

mystictrunks said:


> Immigrants who don't learn English usually end working in something like construction or agriculture. Your example doesn't work very well because very few people who have zero English skills will end up working in a job that requires them to know English.



You still need to understand your boss no matter what freakin' job you take. My father's company was all about Construction and the immigrants did not understand nor follow, a simple order. So...yea, you still need to know what your boss is tellin' ya. 



> *few people who have zero English skills will end up working in a job that requires them to know English.*


Huh? Very few people who have zero English skills will end up working at a job that requires them to know English?

All I know, is that learning our language is very important. If you're gonna come in our country illegally and steal jobs, you should at least learn it.

P.S
And didn't I say my example wasn't all that good? Immigrants can't just have their boss point and shove, they need to learn our language.


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## Hand Banana (May 2, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> ^ Agreed
> 
> >
> 
> ...



Are you offended because I'm talking about white people?


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## mystictrunks (May 2, 2010)

Emma Bradley said:


> You still need to understand your boss no matter what freakin' job you take. My father's company was all about Construction and the immigrants did not understand nor follow, a simple order. So...yea, you still need to know what your boss is tellin' ya.


And yet there are thousands of immigrants who have lived inthis country for years who still can't speak English.



> Huh? Very few people who have zero English skills will end up working at a job that requires them to know English?


Yes




> P.S
> And didn't I say my example wasn't all that good? Immigrants can't just have their boss point and shove, they need to learn our language.



It works well for lots of them.


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## Zerst?ren (May 2, 2010)

vivEnergy said:


> who doesn't speak english anyway ?



This.


If you go to live to another country, that has a different langage than yours, then you have to learn it, not just because you're 'in Alaska', it's to be able to communicate, to get a job, to go and buy groceries, and everything else.

People may even treat you better if you take the time and learn that countrie's language, since they will take that as courtesy.

English is not even difficult, it's a really easy language. I'm currently learnign German and hell is more difficult than english.


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## Petenshi (May 2, 2010)

I work in a job where there is direct evidence that people actually learn english while at the job site, at least enough to do their job.


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## quizmasterG (May 2, 2010)

i had friends who went to alaska, they said everyone was crazy

they are right look at that palin thing


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## fantzipants (May 5, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Plenty of those countries also suck ass.
> 
> Meanwhile the ones that do are some of the best places to live in the world. If you want to bring a stupid argument like that to the table, prepare for me to answer with something just as stupid.
> 
> People act like no one makes people learn a language to live in their country or like people are being robbed of their culture. If you like your culture that much, stay where you came from. No one is saying what you can and can't do at home, but when you're at work or when you're out looking at road signs or signs in other places you need to be able to read and speak English and if you can't don't get a job and don't drive anywhere. Not my problem.



Puerto ricans don't need to go anywhere because that is where they came from.how does your argument fit in with that. also the gichi [ sp?] are descendants of runaway slaves who ahve their own language not to forget the franch speaking peoples and native americans.i'm sorry but your argument does not hold.


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