# Can Gaara block C4?



## Kazekage94 (Nov 25, 2014)

Just the explosion not the bombs

I am Saying if C4 was like C3 (so no nano bombs) could he do it?

C4 vs Gaara's defense(INCLUDING ANY DEFENSE)

Meaning he could use any shield, wall, ball, etc


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## Nikushimi (Nov 25, 2014)

I don't understand. You mean if C4 was a big explosion like C3? That just defeats the point of the Jutsu.

Gaara could block the nanobombs, yes. But he would need prior intel on the Jutsu in order to do that.

C4 is supposedly a higher grade of chakra than C3 (going by the nomenclature), but we have no idea what that would translate to in the detonation of a single payload like the C3 models; it could be that the chakra concentration is too high and Deidara simply isn't capable of that. Whatever the case, he's never done it before, and C4 is certainly much deadlier the way he _actually_ uses it.


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## jorge2060 88 (Nov 25, 2014)

The whole point of c4 is the bombs and explosions being nano sized. If you remove that it's not c4 anymore and the explosion just happens inside animals that inhale the bombs so i don't see the point of your question 

Edit: But no gara cannot block c4 those nano bombs are smaller than cells which are smaller the a grain of sand. So the bombs would just slip inside gara's sand defense, he would breathe them and then die from the explosion.


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## iJutsu (Nov 26, 2014)

jorge2060 88 said:


> The whole point of c4 is the bombs and explosions being nano sized. If you remove that it's not c4 anymore and the explosion just happens inside animals that inhale the bombs so i don't see the point of your question
> 
> Edit: But no gara cannot block c4 those nano bombs are smaller than cells which are smaller the a grain of sand. So the bombs would just slip inside gara's sand defense, he would breathe them and then die from the explosion.



According to wikipedia the smallest sand particle is .4 micrometers, while human red blood cells are 6-8. There's no way those bombs are getting through a thick wall of sand.


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## Zynn (Nov 26, 2014)

iJutsu said:


> According to wikipedia the smallest sand particle is .4 micrometers, while human red blood cells are 6-8. There's no way those bombs are getting through a thick wall of sand.



But isn't there already evidence that the clay can get through the sand if it was infused in it? It was how Gaara got owned in their battle, after all. It would be even easier to infuse em if they're nanosized.


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## Icegaze (Nov 26, 2014)

No he cannot


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## Nikushimi (Nov 26, 2014)

The C4 nanobombs were visible at a level of magnification that Sasuke's blood cells were not.


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 26, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I don't understand. You mean if C4 was a big explosion like C3? That just defeats the point of the Jutsu.
> 
> Gaara could block the nanobombs, yes. But he would need prior intel on the Jutsu in order to do that.
> 
> C4 is supposedly a higher grade of chakra than C3 (going by the nomenclature), but we have no idea what that would translate to in the detonation of a single payload like the C3 models; it could be that the chakra concentration is too high and Deidara simply isn't capable of that. Whatever the case, he's never done it before, and C4 is certainly much deadlier the way he _actually_ uses it.



I mean you can answer the question could he defend from C4 but I was trying to say, if C3 was the size of C4, could he do it?


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## Nikushimi (Nov 26, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> I mean you can answer the question could he defend from C4 but I was trying to say, if C3 was the size of C4, could he do it?



You mean billions of microscopic bombs each with a C3-grade payload?

Lol. Gaara and everything within a hundred miles of the blast zone would be charred glass.


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

No. 

If C3 WAS THE SIZE OF C4. Fuck the microscopic bombs.
im talking about C3 just being as big ad C4 dude


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## JuicyG (Nov 27, 2014)

*Gaara needs intel to stop C4 sized bombs...he literally inhales it and dies*


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

The knowledge was implied


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## Мoon (Nov 27, 2014)

If we are not considering the nano bombs, Gaara could use 
Ultimately Hard Absolute Defence - Shield of Shukaku

Along with his automatic sand shield to negate any other blind spots of the explosions.


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## JuicyG (Nov 27, 2014)

*Stopping the bombs means stopping your breathing as well though*


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## Trojan (Nov 27, 2014)

Well, Gaara does have lightning element, no?


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## Мoon (Nov 27, 2014)

OP said minus the cloud of microscopic bombs. The microscopic bombs is what causes the person that inhales them to disintegrate. Without those, Gaara's defense would surely win.



Hussain said:


> Well, Gaara does have lightning element, no?



Yes, which counters Earth. He even has Wind release if all fails. 

Also, Gaara has the Third Eye technique, which allows him to create a floating eyeball of sand in any location, which he can see through as a means of spying or guide his attacks while his sight is obstructed. His sand can also be used as a sensing device: Gaara can detect when others come into contact with it, even from far away.


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

Gaara dies with or without the nano bombs
A bomb that size bullies him


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 27, 2014)

Gaara cant see C4 the a sharingan or Byakugan sees it. Technically and logically, Gaara will die. He wont evevr no what hit him.


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## ChatraOrChakra (Nov 27, 2014)

if he knew of it. he can. otherwise no.


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## ShadowReaper (Nov 27, 2014)

No. C4 acts on atomic level and only lightning can save you(and only if you struck yourself with it and deactivate it, before you are erased from existence).


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

Can people read what I said. No mocroscopic bombs. Just a larger version of C3.


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Gaara dies with or without the nano bombs
> A bomb that size bullies him



Well you wouldn't think he can turn the Skysand Defensive Wall vertically, then use his sand ball?


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

Bomb that size bullies him 
Whatever you just described isn't something he has shown the ability to do 
He needed a huge amount of desert sand to tank c3

C4 clay in size >>>C3

Enough said


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Bomb that size bullies him
> Whatever you just described isn't something he has shown the ability to do
> He needed a huge amount of desert sand to tank c3
> 
> ...



Well not by feats.
It's one move dude he can use as much chakra and sand as he needs


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 27, 2014)

C4 dilutes the air. As Long as you breath, your dead.


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Well not by feats.
> It's one move dude he can use as much chakra and sand as he needs



That's just dumb and you know it. The bigger the clay structure the more power it packs 
If that wasn't obvious I don't know what is . Especially if we have to take into account that he is going to use the same quality of chakra as he does with c3
So it's essentially a bigger c3 how is it going to not be stronger ?

Gaara dies take it or leave it


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Nov 27, 2014)

Lol yeah?

A C3 the size of a C4 giant would probably erase 3 sand villages fuck just 1.

Gaara's defense gets erased and he should go along with it.


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## Icegaze (Nov 27, 2014)

I await kazekage perfectly well thought out come back 
Which explains how a bigger c3 won't have a bigger explosion and by proxy do more damage 
Gaara was sweating moving that much sand lol


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 27, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> I await kazekage perfectly well thought out come back
> Which explains how a bigger c3 won't have a bigger explosion and by proxy do more damage
> Gaara was sweating moving that much sand lol



What don't you get about 1 move? Gaara isn't battling Deidara he's just blocking one move.
So he can use as much chakra as he needs

And I know the explosion will be bigger.

C3 didn't even put a scratch on the Skysand Defensive Wall. 
C4 isn't that much bigger than C3, it's mainly double the size and Gaara can use as much chakra he needs to block it us in whatever defense. He could use the wall, his mom's shield another wall, and his sand ball. 

Deidaras explosions didn't even pierce his sand.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Seriously slap yourself kazekage
C4 is easily 3 times bigger are you bloody serious
What's the point of your thread btw?
Pretty much everyone has already told you gaara will still loose to it 
Whether it's 1 move or 10 moves


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Pretty much everyone has already told you gaara will still loose to it



Nah, I still think Gaara can pull through it if he used the previous defences I mentioned plus his Sand Lighting Needles with the mixture of his Third eye. Plus, he also has gold dust which can have magnetic aftereffects against the explosion of the C3.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

How on earth would his 3rd eye help him block a giant clay doll exploding that has the same properties as c3
Read the OP

As for the actual c4 his 3 eye won't help him do anything


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> How on earth would his 3rd eye help him block a giant clay doll exploding that has the same properties as c3
> Read the OP
> 
> As for the actual c4 his 3 eye won't help him do anything



You do realize that defence isn't just about blocking, right? Have you finished the manga yet? because I can care less if I'm spoiling you here, but with his Desert Suspension, Gaara can ride his sand faster the Ooniki can fly to any location.

Put the Third eye's sensing and *spying* abilities to see Deidara pulling out any of his clay explosions together with all I mentioned, and you have Gaara's win.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Paradise said:


> You do realize that defence isn't just about blocking, right? Have you finished the manga yet? because I can care less if I'm spoiling you here, but with his Desert Suspension, Gaara can ride his sand faster the Ooniki can fly to any location.
> 
> Put the Third eye's sensing and *spying* abilities to see Deidara pulling out any of his clay explosions together with all I mentioned, and you have Gaara's win.




We have a winner here people 
Someone who doesn't read the OP
The idea of this thread is if gaara can block it !! Can he tank it is the question 

As for spying which is what the third eye can do it canopy sense that wouldn't help gaara achieved anything . It isn't like deidara goes to hide somewhere whine making his bombs 

Gaara can see those coming at him with his eyes . The issue is 

1) he would have no reason to attempt sensor  sand to sense deidara as he can see him 
2) sensing c4 chakra doesn't mean he will be able to avoid it 

I think jiraiya already very obviously stated that even sensors need to see the attack they are trying to avoid


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Then yes, he can block it. This is a give or take situation , honestly. The only reason he was unable to do so when Deidara actually fought Gaara last time and ended up getting captured, was because Deidara used his C3 on the Sand Village as a decoy to throw Gaara off. Otherwise, its not like C3 isn't unavoidable/unblockable. As I mentioned before, Gaara has adapted Gold Dust from the Warring arc and fight against his own father, so you don't know what that element's effects have against Deidara's basic C3 attacks.

The only way this ends up a stalemate is if Deidara uses C0, which we obviously know is his "kamikaze 9/11 im going to murder you" style of suicide. OP gave Gaara any means of defence, and has yet to mention Deidaras C0 explosive. Only C3, and C4, which can both be negated.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Paradise said:


> Then yes, he can block it. This is a give or take situation , honestly. The only reason he was unable to do so when Deidara actually fought Gaara last time and ended up getting captured, was because Deidara used his C3 on the Sand Village as a decoy to throw Gaara off. Otherwise, its not like C3 isn't unavoidable/unblockable. As I mentioned before, Gaara has adapted Gold Dust from the Warring arc and fight against his own father, so you don't know what that element's effects have against Deidara's basic C3 attacks.
> 
> The only way this ends up a stalemate is if Deidara uses C0, which we obviously know is his "kamikaze 9/11 im going to murder you" style of suicide. OP gave Gaara any means of defence, and has yet to mention Deidaras C0 explosive. Only C3, and C4, which can both be negated.



Gold dust was a one time thing 
He failed to use gold dust against madara despite the fact that  it would have
Helped you know being heavier than sand and all 

You have yet to introduce the slightest reasonable argument for how c4 is negated 

As for c3 if deodar a dropped it on gaara it would have had the same effect . Gaara hardly moves in battle and is so much more likely to attempt blocking than evading 

As for the thread a bigger c3 kills him


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> You have yet to introduce the slightest reasonable argument for how c4 is negated



I mentioned his Sand Lighting Needles with the mixture of his Third eye sensing where the nano bombs are, as that would be the only way for him to cancel out the nano bombs left from C4. 
*Spoiler*: __ 




As you can see, this starts off as a sand technique, but ends with a Lighting release, if he were to multiply the amount of needles to how many nano bombs the third eye can detect, the C4 could be negated.




The reason the gold dust failed was because he couldn't mold it to perfection to entrap Madara, that was entirely for offence btw,  you haven't seen Gaara use his gold dust fused with his sand for defensive formations. And if we did, we would see that , as you mentioned , gold being heavier, will have a more durable protection towards the explosion of a C3 then Gaara's regular sand.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Paradise said:


> I mentioned his Sand Lighting Needles with the mixture of his Third eye sensing where the nano bombs are, as that would be the only way for him to cancel out the nano bombs left from C4.
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> ...



The first one is a filler so I have no idea why u would bring that up 
He didn't have gold dust against madara that was never said 
Stop making stuff up 

In Bd we use canon material please stick to that 

Also those filler needles won't help him do anything against c4

We use canon here please !! 

Or naruto can start throwing rasengan 
Filler= bull shit


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> He failed to use gold dust against madara despite the fact that  it would have
> Helped you know being heavier than sand and all





Icegaze said:


> He didn't have gold dust against madara that was never said
> Stop making stuff up


You brought up Madara on your own accord, I simply reiterated your misconceptions of a fantasy fight. 




Icegaze said:


> You have yet to introduce the slightest reasonable argument for how c4 is negated


I was countering this statement you made towards the abilities I mentioned 



Icegaze said:


> In Bd we use canon material please stick to that


Filler or not, abilities are abilities none the less. The possibility is there. Plus, OP didn't specify on filler abilities.

I don't see where it says I can't use filler abilities in the BD rules? maybe you're confusing that with the Konoha Colosseum? In any case, you, sir, are the one who has failed to bring a reasonable argument towards Deidara countering these abilities, I shall now take my leave, and allow you to draw your own conclusion from here on out. Continue.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Paradise said:


> You brought up Madara on your own accord, I simply reiterated your misconceptions of a fantasy fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Weak argument 
No one with a brain uses filler abilities 
If ur resorting to those then you I ur own can't argue with someone like u 
Lol your funny trying to take the high ground despite throwing in BS FILLER


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Weak argument
> No one with a brain uses filler abilities
> If ur resorting to those then you I ur own can't argue with someone like u
> Lol your funny trying to take the high ground despite throwing in BS FILLER



What high ground?I only threw the filler in because you failed to ignore what OP clearly said about no nano bombs being included in the C4. It's only fair.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

Lol shut up 
Your the one who ignored OP 
I had to point it out that he was referring to a bigger c3 
I guess you got that short term memory going on
Perhaps too much fillers did your brain in


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Seriously slap yourself kazekage
> C4 is easily 3 times bigger are you bloody serious
> What's the point of your thread btw?
> Pretty much everyone has already told you gaara will still loose to it
> Whether it's 1 move or 10 moves



You still failed to counter my arguement. 
What's the point of any thread dude? Come on


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

To make sense
Yours falls awfully short


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> To make sense
> Yours falls awfully short



They all make sense. Can he block it or not? Pretty straight forward. 
Atleast have feats to back it up which he has.


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## Icegaze (Nov 28, 2014)

He has no feats to back up he could tank a clay doll c4 size considering c4 is at least 3 times bigger than c3
Gaara had to muster up all the sand in the surrounding to pull that off 
C4 size explosion would laugh him off 

Who knows next you might say he could tank c0


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> He has no feats to back up he could tank a clay doll c4 size considering c4 is at least 3 times bigger than c3
> Gaara had to muster up all the sand in the surrounding to pull that off
> C4 size explosion would laugh him off
> 
> Who knows next you might say he could tank c0



Yes he does have feats.

The thing you arent getting is that Gaara can use all of his chakra if need be.
IT'S ONE MOVE.

The reason he struggled in gathering all of that sand is because he had done Justus that caused much of his chakra during his fight with Deidara. 
 If he only has to defend from one move he can use whatever defense or defences he needs. 
If 1 C3 didnt even put a dent in his Skysand Defensive Wall, you don't think he could block a larger sized one with as much chakra and defences as he needs? Seriously?


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## ueharakk (Nov 28, 2014)

if C4 was basically just a boss-sized C3, there's no way gaara would block that.  C3 is the biggest explosion gaara has ever blocked, it required so much stamina from gaara that he was out of breath afterwards, and the bomb was maybe twice as tall as deidara.  Now you're talking about a bomb that's over 50x the size of that?  No, gaara's sand gets destroyed along with him.

Thankfully though, I doubt C4 is just C3 except as big as a boss summon, since if that were the case, it would produce an explosion even larger than C0 which wouldn't make sense to me.  A lot of the giant clay deidara's volume seems to comprise of air, so that probably explains it.


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> ifcan't was basically just a boss-sized C3, there's no way gaara would block that.  C3 is the biggest explosion gaara has ever blocked, it required so much stamina from gaara that he was out of breath afterwards, and the bomb was maybe twice as tall as deidara.  Now you're talking about a bomb that's over 50x the size of that?  No, gaara's sand gets destroyed along with him.
> 
> Thankfully though, I doubt C4 is just C3 except as big as a boss summon, since if that were the case, it would produce an explosion even larger than C0 which wouldn't make sense to me.  A lot of the giant clay deidara's volume seems to comprise of air, so that probably explains it.



C4 is def not 50x bigger than C3
Gaara was out of breath because he used so much of his chakra before and it was getting down to the wire.

What feats suggest that he cant block that and survive? He can use as many defences as he wants.
Deidaras bombs failed to get through his sand. The sand was literally unscathed.


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## Jagger (Nov 28, 2014)

Hussain said:


> Well, Gaara does have lightning element, no?


He has never used it before in his life.

Or, at least, during his performance during the War. 

-----------

I don't quite understand OP's question. C4's deadly trick are the nanobombs capable of introducing themselves through an organism's breathing passages. Is you remove that, what is he supposed to counter?


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## Мoon (Nov 28, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Lol shut up
> Your the one who ignored OP
> I had to point it out that he was referring to a bigger c3
> I guess you got that short term memory going on
> Perhaps too much fillers did your brain in



No matter how big Deidara's explosion is, Gaara's sand, whether fused with gold dust or not, can negate his explosion.


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## ueharakk (Nov 28, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> C4 is def not 50x bigger than C3


If you're saying that, then you really need to reread the manga:

size of C3

size of C4



Kazekage94 said:


> Gaara was out of breath because he used so much of his chakra before and it was getting down to the wire.


Gaara showed zero signs of exhaustion before, he instantly shows exhaustion after.  He's out of breath because of C3.



Kazekage94 said:


> What feats suggest that he cant block that and survive? He can use as many defences as he wants.


What feats suggests he CAN block that and survive?  IF jinchuriki gaara gets out of breath from blocking C3 despite showing zero signs of exhaustion any time prior, and that's his best defensive feat with his sand, how in the world does that suggest he can survive something 50x larger?

If Gaara in a desert can't even stop one of madara's meteors without oonoki making them super light, and one of madara's meteors doesn't even have the power to obliterate the other, how is he going to survive a blast that would easily vaporize both of them?

If gaara in a desert can't do jack squat about PS's slashes, and can't even restrain 5 legged susanoos that were getting ragdolled by tsunade and arm wrestled by Ei, how is he going to defend against something that's C0 level?

Simply manipulating a lot of sand at once means jack, what makes gaara's defenses powerful is his ability to compact the sand.  If he's just manipulating a bunch of sand, but not compacting or reinforcing it with his chakra, it's just a mass of sand that gets easily cleared out by the explosion. 



Kazekage94 said:


> Deidaras bombs failed to get through his sand. The sand was literally unscathed.


which required jinchuriki gaara to use so much chakra that he became immediately exhausted.  Now why does that mean gaara can protect himself against something that's even more powerful than C0?

Also, his sand was very much 'scathed', you can see* it was damaged* just like the* back portion of gaara's mother defense was damaged by jouki boy.*


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

Jagger said:


> He has never used it before in his life.
> 
> Or, at least, during his performance during the War.
> 
> ...



If C3 was the size of C4 could he block amd survive it?


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## Kazekage94 (Nov 28, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> If you're saying that, then you really need to reread the manga:
> 
> size of C3
> 
> size of C4


50x bigger? Still no. 2-3 yes. And I don't have to read the entire manga to figure that out.



> Gaara showed zero signs of exhaustion before, he instantly shows exhaustion after.  He's out of breath because of C3.


Wtf don't you people understand about using up chakra? Gaara used chakra prior to the defense, pf course using up more especially on that attack would exhaust him. But it wasn't like he didn't use any chakra before that dude. Get real



> What feats suggests he CAN block that and survive?  IF jinchuriki gaara gets out of breath from blocking C3 despite showing zero signs of exhaustion any time prior, and that's his best defensive feat with his sand, how in the world does that suggest he can survive something 50x larger?


Once again not 50x larger



> If Gaara in a desert can't even stop one of madara's meteors without oonoki making them super light, and one of madara's meteors doesn't even have the power to obliterate the other, how is he going to survive a blast that would easily vaporize both of them?


Irrelevant not comparable



> If gaara in a desert can't do jack squat about PS's slashes, and can't even restrain 5 legged susanoos that were getting ragdolled by tsunade and arm wrestled by Ei, how is he going to defend against something that's C0 level?


Not C0 level and that's irrelevant



> Simply manipulating a lot of sand at once means jack, what makes gaara's defenses powerful is his ability to compact the sand.  If he's just manipulating a bunch of sand, but not compacting or reinforcing it with his chakra, it's just a mass of sand that gets easily cleared out by the explosion.


That's the entire FUCKING POINT. He can use as much chakra as he needs.



> which required jinchuriki gaara to use so much chakra that he became immediately exhausted.  Now why does that mean gaara can protect himself against something that's even more powerful than C0?


Read above. How tf is an explosion from C4 larger than C0?
Honestly read the manga. Everyone knows C3 >> C4 >>>>>>> C0 (which spreads over 4 kilometers)



> Also, his sand was very much 'scathed', you can see* it was damaged* just like the* back portion of gaara's mother defense was damaged by jouki boy.*


You can't prove that as we don't know if the shield was already like that.
GG


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## ueharakk (Nov 29, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> 50x bigger? Still no. 2-3 yes. And I don't have to read the entire manga to figure that out.


If you literally believe that something that towers above forests almost like a boss summon does:


is only 2-3 times bigger than something that's not even 3 times taller than deidara:


then you've just nulled any reason for your stance on this discussion to be taken seriously.

it's AT LEAST 50x bigger. BIG is volume.  Volume is lengthxwidthxheight.  If a human is 2x taller than another human, then they are going to be roughly 2x2x2 = 8 times bigger than the shorter guy.  If deidara is even 3x taller than the bomb (which he's obviously way taller than) that puts him at 27 times the size of the bomb.




Kazekage94 said:


> Wtf don't you people understand about using up chakra? Gaara used chakra prior to the defense, pf course using up more especially on that attack would exhaust him. But it wasn't like he didn't use any chakra before that dude. Get real


I didn't say he didn't use any chakra before that.  Obviously though, if he's huffing and puffing after that despite never  even hinting at chakra exhaustion before, he's at least pulling out close to his maximum defenses.




Kazekage94 said:


> Irrelevant not comparable


I literally spelled out for you how they are comparable.  Gaara's sand couldn't even stop power that couldn't even completely pulverise one of madara's meteors.  C0 had enough power to vaporize both of madara's meteors, therefore gaara is incapable of stopping C0.  If you have any counterarguments for that, post them, if not, then you have no answer for this argument and therefore that would be a tacit concession on your part.





Kazekage94 said:


> That's the entire FUCKING POINT. He can use as much chakra as he needs.


...yet you've given literally no argument for him being able to use enough chakra to form a shield of sand powerful enough to stop something on a completely different level than C3, his greatest defensive feat in the manga, and while he was a jinchuriki.  Also, since when can ANYONE pour literally their entire reserves into a single jutsu?  SM Naruto's biggest rasengan is chou oodama rasengan, he might have enough chakra to make tons of them, but that doesn't mean he can make a single rasengan that's comprised of his entire chakra reserves.  Same with BM Naruto, he can make huge bijuudamas, doesn't mean he can put his entire chakra into one.  Same with madara, he can make giant susanoos, doesn't mean he can pour all of his chakra into one in order to make it even bigger than all the susanoos we've seen in canon.  

Characters can't use up their entire chakra reserves for a single jutsu, their's a limit to how much they are able to use at a given time for a given jutsu.  Gaara shown to be exhausted after using a massive amount of sand, and compacting it so that it could block C3 shows that he's approaching that limit. 





Kazekage94 said:


> Read above. How tf is an explosion from C4 larger than C0?
> Honestly read the manga. Everyone knows C3 >> C4 >>>>>>> C0 (which spreads over 4 kilometers)


If you're not going to bother reading my posts, don't even respond.  I explicitly stated that C0 is above C4, however, if you operate under the assumption that C4 is simply a bigger C3, then C4 would be > C0 since it's roughly 50x the size of C3.   




Kazekage94 said:


> You can't prove that as we don't know if the shield was already like that.
> GG


I don't have to prove a negative.  We see what gaara's sand defenses look like after they take damage from explosion from jouki boy.  Gaara's sand shield looks exaclty like that.  Therefore if you want to argue that the sand shield looked like that from before the explosion, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence for that assertion.  Else, you have no counterargument to my own and thus a concession on your part again.


----------



## Kazekage94 (Nov 29, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> If you literally believe that something that towers above forests almost like a boss summon does:
> 
> 
> is only 2-3 times bigger than something that's not even 3 times taller than deidara:
> ...


If you honestly think those are drawn to scale think again. I know for a fact that C4 isn't atleast 50x larger. It doesn't matter anyway because explosions don't do anything to his sand.



> I didn't say he didn't use any chakra before that.  Obviously though, if he's huffing and puffing after that despite never  even hinting at chakra exhaustion before, he's at least pulling out close to his maximum defenses.


More like close to his point of losing all of his chakra. The move itself costs a bit of chakra but are you not forgetting he had to rise all of that up and move it away from the village? If Gaara opened up with that move it wouldn't have exhausted him at all.




> I literally spelled out for you how they are comparable.  Gaara's sand couldn't even stop power that couldn't even completely pulverise one of madara's meteors.  C0 had enough power to vaporize both of madara's meteors, therefore gaara is incapable of stopping C0.  If you have any counterarguments for that, post them, if not, then you have no answer for this argument and therefore that would be a tacit concession on your part.


Thosw are 2 different Justus. Gaara's sand is better at stopping explosions. I never said he could stop C0 because that isn't the argument here.




> ...yet you've given literally no argument for him being able to use enough chakra to form a shield of sand powerful enough to stop something on a completely different level than C3, his greatest defensive feat in the manga, and while he was a jinchuriki.  Also, since when can ANYONE pour literally their entire reserves into a single jutsu?  SM Naruto's biggest rasengan is chou oodama rasengan, he might have enough chakra to make tons of them, but that doesn't mean he can make a single rasengan that's comprised of his entire chakra reserves.  Same with BM Naruto, he can make huge bijuudamas, doesn't mean he can put his entire chakra into one.  Same with madara, he can make giant susanoos, doesn't mean he can pour all of his chakra into one in order to make it even bigger than all the susanoos we've seen in canon.


Here we go again. Not reading what I said. Gaara can use all the defences he needs.KEY WORLD ALL. Gaara infuses his chakra into the sand to make it studier. So yea he can pour his chakra into the sand. That's how it's strong in the first place. What makes you think he can't do that to his desert sand? (Which was already shown to stop C3 without chakra already infused)
So I am talking Skysand Defensive Wall, 3 Mom shields a couple sand walls, etc. However you wanna look at it. It's not just one shield. He has to survive this and block it of course



> Characters can't use up their entire chakra reserves for a single jutsu, their's a limit to how much they are able to use at a given time for a given jutsu.  Gaara shown to be exhausted after using a massive amount of sand, and compacting it so that it could block C3 shows that he's approaching that limit.


Read a couple lines above. Due to his battle of using chakra before.



> If you're not going to bother reading my posts, don't even respond.  I explicitly stated that C0 is above C4, however, if you operate under the assumption that C4 is simply a bigger C3, then C4 would be > C0 since it's roughly 50x the size of C3.


You are the one that is talking about other things that don't matter like the meteor.As i said before C4 is still the same size it's just an explosion. Like C3 is. So how is that greater than C0 if it cant stretch over 4 kilometers? C0 is more like atleast 50 times greater than C3.



> I don't have to prove a negative.  We see what gaara's sand defenses look like after they take damage from explosion from jouki boy.  Gaara's sand shield looks exaclty like that.  Therefore if you want to argue that the sand shield looked like that from before the explosion, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence for that assertion.  Else, you have no counterargument to my own and thus a concession on your part again.


I wasn't talking about the Joking Boy explosion. Once again, you are going off topic. Gaara's sand will always conceal the attack.


----------



## Icegaze (Nov 29, 2014)

@ueh
Kazekage just wants you to say gaara can tank it 
Please make him happy 
Because as you can see he is still blindly arguing that c3 which isn't even 3 times taller than deidada is somehow still 1/2 the size of c4
You can't take someone like that seriously . Makes no sense 
Show him panels oooh no it's not scaled to size . whatever that means . We have a perfect comparison both objects against deidara kishi couldn't make it any simpler


----------



## Kazekage94 (Nov 29, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> @ueh
> Kazekage just wants you to say gaara can tank it
> Please make him happy
> Because as you can see he is still blindly arguing that c3 which isn't even 3 times taller than deidada is somehow still 1/2 the size of c4
> ...



I find it funny how at first you said it was 3x larger now you change it? Oh

What Kishi made clear is thay explosions are ineffective towards Gaara's sand

This C4 I made up isn't even real in the manga, I just wanted to see how many people would actually say he can't do it.


----------



## Icegaze (Nov 29, 2014)

I think everyone but you said he can't do it 
Hope you got what you wanted 
Nice thread


----------



## Kazekage94 (Nov 29, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> I think everyone but you said he can't do it
> Hope you got what you wanted
> Nice thread



Nope. Your eyes need checked.


----------



## ueharakk (Nov 29, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> If you honestly think those are drawn to scale think again. I know for a fact that C4 isn't atleast 50x larger. It doesn't matter anyway because explosions don't do anything to his sand.


So you've basically conceded that the manga shows C4 is roughly 50x the size of C3, yet you still assert that despite the manga showing us how big C4 is compared to C3, the manga is for some reason wrong. 

Well, what is that reason?  And what happened to your claim that C4 was only 2-3 times larger than C3?  



Kazekage94 said:


> More like close to his point of losing all of his chakra. The move itself costs a bit of chakra but are you not forgetting he had to rise all of that up and move it away from the village? If Gaara opened up with that move it wouldn't have exhausted him at all.


If Gaara opened up with that move, he would have been out of breath after using it, just like anyone who opens up with their most chakra consuming moves would be out of breath after using them.  




Kazekage94 said:


> Thosw are 2 different Justus. *Gaara's sand is better at stopping explosions.* I never said he could stop C0 because that isn't the argument here.


Why in the world is the bolded true?  The meteor is hitting gaara's sand with far less force than C4's explosion would.  Why in the world would gaara be able to stop a hit that contains incomparably less force when he can stop a hit that contains incomparably greater force?




Kazekage94 said:


> Here we go again. Not reading what I said. Gaara can use all the defences he needs.KEY WORLD ALL. Gaara infuses his chakra into the sand to make it studier. So yea he can pour his chakra into the sand. That's how it's strong in the first place. What makes you think he can't do that to his desert sand? (Which was already shown to stop C3 without chakra already infused)
> So I am talking Skysand Defensive Wall, 3 Mom shields a couple sand walls, etc. However you wanna look at it. It's not just one shield. He has to survive this and block it of course


Um, ALL sand that gaara controls has chakra infused in it, however if he wants to make a stronger defense with the sand he controls, he has to infuse MORE chakra into the sand he's controlling in order to do so.

His defense he used against C3 was chakra infused as: 1) gaara's controling it, which requires his sand to contain his chakra, and 2) a bomb the size of C3 would have easily gotten through a mass of sand as big as what gaara used to defend the city with.

If you're talking about gaara's gourd sand, gaara can't turn a desert or anything else into that kind of sand.

What leads me to think C3 is pushing his limits is:
1) it's his best feat in the manga
2) he was exhausted immediately after despite showing no signs of exhaustion and being a jinchuriki
3) he failed to block something far weaker than C0 while in a desert.



Kazekage94 said:


> Read a couple lines above. Due to his battle of using chakra before.


yet that's false as we've seen no sign of exhaustion from gaara, and as I've already explained characters can't pour their entire reserves into a single defense.  That's gaara's greatest defensive feat, and he's instantly exhausted after that.  If gaara had a significantly greater defensive feat and does it without exhaustion, then sure, he's exhausted mainly because of his fight with deidara, but that's not the case.  Unless you want to give gaara no limits while ignoring everything that screams to the reader his limits, then no, that's gaara approaching his limits.



Kazekage94 said:


> You are the one that is talking about other things that don't matter like the meteor.As i said before C4 is still the same size it's just an explosion. Like C3 is. So how is that greater than C0 if it cant stretch over 4 kilometers? C0 is more like atleast 50 times greater than C3.


The meteor is a significantly weaker attack than an attack that would easily and completely vaporize both of them, gaara being unable to block the impact of a single meteor is ENTIRELY relevant to him being able to block an incomparably more powerful attack.  

How in the world is C4 more than 50x greater than C3?  C3 was contained in gaara's dome defense, if the dome defense was really the entire AoE of C3, then it would barely be stronger than the C2s that deidara fired at sasuke, and absolutely wouldn't be such a threat to the sand village that deidara makes the hyperbole claim that the entire village would be wiped out.



Kazekage94 said:


> I wasn't talking about the Joking Boy explosion. Once again, you are going off topic. Gaara's sand will always conceal the attack.


If you weren't talking about jouki boy's explosion, then you've conceded that point as I've used jouki boy's explosion to show what gaara's and looks like when it gets damaged by an explosion, and that's exactly what we saw when it got hit by C3.  So you're either trying to make me prove a negative with 100% certainty while not even giving a positive argument for that stance yourself, or you're blatantly ignoring my argument.  Either way though, it's a tacit concession of this point on your part.


----------



## Invictus-Kun (Nov 29, 2014)

Gaara cant stand c4. he wont be able to know what happened.

Let's see his defense activated due to it's automation.

But, again, Deidara, manage to sneak up tiny insect bombs during Garaa abduction.


----------



## Kazekage94 (Nov 30, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> So you've basically conceded that the manga shows C4 is roughly 50x the size of C3, yet you still assert that despite the manga showing us how big C4 is compared to C3, the manga is for some reason wrong.


You cant even prove that just by looking at 2 pictures. Your estimation is wayy off.


> Well, what is that reason?  And what happened to your claim that C4 was only 2-3 times larger than C3?


It is. My analysis seems more plausible.


> If Gaara opened up with that move, he would have been out of breath after using it, just like anyone who opens up with their most chakra consuming moves would be out of breath after using them.


No, people show signs of exhaustion once they are getting close to their limit.



> Why in the world is the bolded true?  The meteor is hitting gaara's sand with far less force than C4's explosion would.  Why in the world would gaara be able to stop a hit that contains incomparably less force when he can stop a hit that contains incomparably greater force?


Why are you talking about meteors? Didnt Gaara block that? 
Drop force =/= Explosion
The bolded is true because it was shown in the manga.


> Um, ALL sand that gaara controls has chakra infused in it, however if he wants to make a stronger defense with the sand he controls, he has to infuse MORE chakra into the sand he's controlling in order to do so.


That's the point.


> His defense he used against C3 was chakra infused as: 1) gaara's controling it, which requires his sand to contain his chakra, and 2) a bomb the size of C3 would have easily gotten through a mass of sand as big as what gaara used to defend the city with.


Easily? No The sand would of made the impact less intesnse. Gaara can use as much as he needs for 1 attack


> If you're talking about gaara's gourd sand, gaara can't turn a desert or anything else into that kind of sand.


He did it with the Skysand Defensive Wall. 


> What leads me to think C3 is pushing his limits is:
> 1) it's his best feat in the manga
> 2) he was exhausted immediately after despite showing no signs of exhaustion and being a jinchuriki
> 3) he failed to block something far weaker than C0 while in a desert.


Exhausted due to losing chakra do i the fight
What did he fail to block?


> yet that's false as we've seen no sign of exhaustion from gaara, and as I've already explained characters can't pour their entire reserves into a single defense.  That's gaara's greatest defensive feat, and he's instantly exhausted after that.  If gaara had a significantly greater defensive feat and does it without exhaustion, then sure, he's exhausted mainly because of his fight with deidara, but that's not the case.  Unless you want to give gaara no limits while ignoring everything that screams to the reader his limits, then no, that's gaara approaching his limits.


He can use many defenses. Plus, Gaara can put quite a bit of chakra into defenses.


> The meteor is a significantly weaker attack than an attack that would easily and completely vaporize both of them, gaara being unable to block the impact of a single meteor is ENTIRELY relevant to him being able to block an incomparably more powerful attack.


No it isn't. 


> How in the world is C4 more than 50x greater than C3?  C3 was contained in gaara's dome defense, if the dome defense was really the entire AoE of C3, then it would barely be stronger than the C2s that deidara fired at sasuke, and absolutely wouldn't be such a threat to the sand village that deidara makes the hyperbole claim that the entire village would be wiped out.


I never said that. And his SSDW had a larger AoE.


> If you weren't talking about jouki boy's explosion, then you've conceded that point as I've used jouki boy's explosion to show what gaara's and looks like when it gets damaged by an explosion, and that's exactly what we saw when it got hit by C3.  So you're either trying to make me prove a negative with 100% certainty while not even giving a positive argument for that stance yourself, or you're blatantly ignoring my argument.  Either way though, it's a tacit concession of this point on your part.


Still irrelevant. But ok


----------



## Icegaze (Nov 30, 2014)

Kazekage "analysis " is more plausible . Makes sense 
So c4 is twice the size of c3 . Good for you
could you please point out someone who agrees with your point despite the manga showing how difficult it was for gaara to handle c3


----------



## Kazekage94 (Nov 30, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> Kazekage "analysis " is more plausible . Makes sense
> So c4 is twice the size of c3 . Good for you
> could you please point out someone who agrees with your point despite the manga showing how difficult it was for gaara to handle c3



It wasn't difficult at all to handle C3. It wasn't hard to decipher block the bomb.

Gaara had enough chakra to do so. So what made it difficult? 

The manga doesn't show 50x larger nor does it state that either.


----------



## ueharakk (Dec 4, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> You cant even prove that just by looking at 2 pictures. Your estimation is wayy off.


If we only have 2 pictures to go by then.... obviously we use the two pictures.  Else you're just throwing pure skepticism at my arguments which are worthless as it could be the case that the difference in size between C4 and C3 is even GREATER than what's shown in those two pictures.



Kazekage94 said:


> It is. My analysis seems more plausible.


I asked you what's the reason, and what happened to your claims about C4 being only 2-3 times bigger than C3 and your response is literally asserting that your response is more plausible and true with no evidence.  When you're forced to ignore all evidence and assert without any evidence that shows how IMPLAUSIBLE your stance is.  And therefore your stance is supported by nothing, forced to ignore everything and therefore is more implausible than my own.



Kazekage94 said:


> No, people show signs of exhaustion once they are getting close to their limit.


and people also show signs of exhaustion after being forced to use their big moves regardless of how close they are to their limit or not.  What's gaara's limit?  Where's your argument for him being able to use something like that without being out of breath, or something much larger than that?



Kazekage94 said:


> Why are you talking about meteors? Didnt Gaara block that?
> Drop force =/= Explosion
> The bolded is true because it was shown in the manga.


Gaara' didn't block that, the meteors went crashing to the ground, gaara could only defend himself from the resultant shockwave of the meteor's collision, and even then he was damaged.  

Next, unless you want to deny laws of physics, drop force =/= explosion is irrelevant to this argument.  Not only that, but as explained an explosion would be even more effective against gaara's defenses as it's an instant emision of energy, not something that gaara can catch, and finally attacks being mechanically different is in no way shape or form positive evidence that one is significantly more effective than another.  In order for you to show that's true, you'd have to produce an instance where gaara's sand failed to block something blunt vs something that explodes when both attacks were similar in power and all things were equal.  Else, the difference is simply irrelevant to the argument, it could be that the difference isn't a factor, or it could even be the case that gaara's sand is even worse against explosions than the drop force of the meteor.




Kazekage94 said:


> That's the point.


Yep, so where's your argument that gaara's limit isn't the defense he used against C3 when that's the greatest thing he's canonically defended against in the manga?



Kazekage94 said:


> Easily? No The sand would of made the impact less intesnse. Gaara can use as much as he needs for 1 attack


So gaara has literally an infinite amount of chakra?
So gaara can use literally all of his chakra reserves for a single defense?

Obviously the sand without being chakra infused and compacted would have made the impact 'less intense' since any defense would have made the impact less intense.  Would that mass of sand be able to make the blast less intense to the point where the city is protected?  Obviously not.



Kazekage94 said:


> He did it with the Skysand Defensive Wall.


In neither of those instances did he use his gourd sand.  



Kazekage94 said:


> *
> Exhausted due to losing chakra do i the fight*
> What did he fail to block?


He failed to block madara's meteors.  What evidence do you have for the bolded? Is there ever an instance in the manga where gaara defends against an attack that's stronger than C3, yet isn't shown huffing and puffing after?



Kazekage94 said:


> He can use many defenses. Plus, Gaara can put quite a bit of chakra into defenses.


That's basically a concession on your part, as gaara being able to use 'many defenses' and 'being able to put quite a bit of chakra into defenses' has nothing to do with the statement you quoted.  



Kazekage94 said:


> I never said that. And his SSDW had a larger AoE.


you literally said that C0 is 50x larger than C3 due to C3 being contained in Gaara's sand defense.  If your using gaaras sand defense as a measure for C3's AoE, then you're literally saying that C3 is smaller than gaara's sand defense, and that's completely false seeing as that would put it barely larger than C2.



Kazekage94 said:


> Still irrelevant. But ok


Since I've literally explained how it's relevant, yet you've given no explanation as how it's irrelevant while simply asserting 'still irrelevant' then that's you conceding this.  Therefore C3 did damage gaara's defense because we see the same signs of damage that gaara's mother defense sustains from jouki boy's explosion.

Don't be a fanboy.  I understand gaara is your favorite character, but if you have to go to such intellectually dishonest lengths in order to defend him, then you're basically admitting that the canonical gaara isn't who you're talking about, rather you're here to just make gaara as good as you can possibly make him and get away with as much as you can.


----------



## Kazekage94 (Dec 5, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> If we only have 2 pictures to go by then.... obviously we use the two pictures.  Else you're just throwing pure skepticism at my arguments which are worthless as it could be the case that the difference in size between C4 and C3 is even GREATER than what's shown in those two pictures.


Bottom line is that C4 is about 2-3 times larger than C4. 50x would be too big.


> I asked you what's the reason, and what happened to your claims about C4 being only 2-3 times bigger than C3 and your response is literally asserting that your response is more plausible and true with no evidence.  When you're forced to ignore all evidence and assert without any evidence that shows how IMPLAUSIBLE your stance is.  And therefore your stance is supported by nothing, forced to ignore everything and therefore is more implausible than my own.


I was just using the picture. We have no proof of 50x larger dude.




> and people also show signs of exhaustion after being forced to use their big moves regardless of how close they are to their limit or not.  What's gaara's limit?  Where's your argument for him being able to use something like that without being out of breath, or something much larger than that?


No they don't. It hasn't been shown but that doesn't mean a fresh Gaara couldn't replicate the same move without showing signs of exhaustion. 




> Gaara' didn't block that, the meteors went crashing to the ground, gaara could only defend himself from the resultant shockwave of the meteor's collision, and even then he was damaged.


I'm talking about the one that Ohnoki assisted him with. That's 2 fucking meteroes.



> Next, unless you want to deny laws of physics, drop force =/= explosion is irrelevant to this argument.  Not only that, but as explained an explosion would be even more effective against gaara's defenses as it's an instant emision of energy, not something that gaara can catch, and finally attacks being mechanically different is in no way shape or form positive evidence that one is significantly more effective than another.  In order for you to show that's true, you'd have to produce an instance where gaara's sand failed to block something blunt vs something that explodes when both attacks were similar in power and all things were equal.  Else, the difference is simply irrelevant to the argument, it could be that the difference isn't a factor, or it could even be the case that gaara's sand is even worse against explosions than the drop force of the meteor.


One thing is better suited than the other. Explosions never made it through his sand. That's a fact. A dropping meteor is completely different.



> Yep, so where's your argument that gaara's limit isn't the defense he used against C3 when that's the greatest thing he's canonically defended against in the manga?


Just because more wasn't shown in the manga, that doesn't mean it was his limit. 
End of the day, he used a lot of chakra before hand and doing that move took up a lot more and he was reaching his limit.


> So gaara has literally an infinite amount of chakra?
> So gaara can use literally all of his chakra reserves for a single defense?


Don't twist my words. I'm just saying he can put chakra into how ever many defenses he can make. It's only for this one attack man. What aren't you getting?


> Obviously the sand without being chakra infused and compacted would have made the impact 'less intense' since any defense would have made the impact less intense.  Would that mass of sand be able to make the blast less intense to the point where the city is protected?  Obviously not.


I never said that. I said less intense meaning it would probably still be damaged just not as bad as not being protected at all.


> In neither of those instances did he use his gourd sand.


And? Funny how his gourd sand is faster and stronger than his desert sand yet his desert sand was able to block C3 with no problem. Meaning his gourd sand has more of his chakra in it correct?


> He failed to block madara's meteors.  What evidence do you have for the bolded? Is there ever an instance in the manga where gaara defends against an attack that's stronger than C3, yet isn't shown huffing and puffing after?


First it was meteor now it's meteors?  Make up your mind. 2 is better than 1 even if the first was lightened. 



> That's basically a concession on your part, as gaara being able to use 'many defenses' and 'being able to put quite a bit of chakra into defenses' has nothing to do with the statement you quoted.


Yet it pertains to this entire post.




> you literally said that C0 is 50x larger than C3 due to C3 being contained in Gaara's sand defense.  If your using gaaras sand defense as a measure for C3's AoE, then you're literally saying that C3 is smaller than gaara's sand defense, and that's completely false seeing as that would put it barely larger than C2.


I said if anything. Which I meant C0 is more plausible at being 50x larger. His SSDW blocked the entire explosion. The city was unharmed. It's larger. 


> Since I've literally explained how it's relevant, yet you've given no explanation as how it's irrelevant while simply asserting 'still irrelevant' then that's you conceding this.  Therefore C3 did damage gaara's defense because we see the same signs of damage that gaara's mother defense sustains from jouki boy's explosion.


Yet it still didn't get through. 


> Don't be a fanboy.  I understand gaara is your favorite character, but if you have to go to such intellectually dishonest lengths in order to defend him, then you're basically admitting that the canonical gaara isn't who you're talking about, rather you're here to just make gaara as good as you can possibly make him and get away with as much as you can.


Lol. Irrelevant.


----------



## ueharakk (Dec 5, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> Bottom line is that C4 is about 2-3 times larger than C4. 50x would be too big.


yet you base that assertion on...... nothing.  While I base my assertion that it's 50x larger.... on what we actually see in the manga.... which shows it's 50x larger.  Do you not see the problem with your reasoning?  

I'm asserting something is true, I'm showing you that it's true because the manga shows it's true.  You're not only saying that what the manga shows isn't true, but you're also saying that something else is true and giving no reasons for it. 



Kazekage94 said:


> I was just using the picture. We have no proof of 50x larger dude.


...if the picture shows the bomb is 50x larger..... then obviously that's proof that the bomb is 50x larger.  Or are you saying that if the manga shows something, then it's not proof that what the manga shows is true?  ARe you saying that if the manga shows gaara making a sandwave that's bigger than a mountain.... that that's not proof that gaara can make a sandwave bigger than a mountain? 

Don't waste my time.




Kazekage94 said:


> No they don't. It hasn't been shown but that doesn't mean a fresh Gaara couldn't replicate the same move without showing signs of exhaustion.


I don't have to prove a negative, if you want to assert a fresh gaara could replicate the same move without showing signs of exhaustion, give me the positive argument.




Kazekage94 said:


> I'm talking about the one that Ohnoki assisted him with. That's 2 fucking meteroes.


That's only one meteorite since gaara had already completely stopped the first one, and that's only after it was extremely lightened by oonoki.  He's not defending against a single one.



Kazekage94 said:


> One thing is better suited than the other. Explosions never made it through his sand. That's a fact. A dropping meteor is completely different.


That's irrelevant.  It doesn't matter if explosions never made it through his sand and meteors did, it could just be the case that the meteors are far stronger than any of the explosions that gaara's sand has blocked.  And that's true since the strongest explosion gaara has ever blocked is merely C3.  

So once again, show me gaara's sand getting hit with an explosion and blunt force attack like the meteor drop when both are equal in power and one doing more damage to his sand than the other.  Else, youre assertion that the mechanics are the reason why he couldn't block the meteor is completely baseless.  




Kazekage94 said:


> Just because more wasn't shown in the manga, that doesn't mean it was his limit.
> End of the day, he used a lot of chakra before hand and doing that move took up a lot more and he was reaching his limit.


That's a textbook example of a no limits fallacy.  Gaara never showed his absolute limits, let's extrapolate his limits to infinity, incomparably beyond his greatest feat or implied defensive ability in the manga.

Nope, gaara's greatest defensive feat is blocking C3, he gets instantly exhausted from doing so despite being a jinchuriki, he can't even block a meteor, he doesn't get the feats of blocking something incomparably more powerful than both.



Kazekage94 said:


> Don't twist my words. I'm just saying he can put chakra into how ever many defenses he can make. It's only for this one attack man. What aren't you getting?


And I completely agree that he can do that, but that's completely irrelevant to our discussion.  You have to show that the amount of defensese gaara can make can withstand a bomb that's 50x more powerful than C3.  Gaara being able to put chakra into however many defenses he can make tells us nothing about his ability to block it.



Kazekage94 said:


> I never said that. I said less intense meaning it would probably still be damaged just not as bad as not being protected at all.


well then you agree with my initial point: that his sand defense had to be chakra infused and compacted.



Kazekage94 said:


> And? Funny how his gourd sand is faster and stronger than his desert sand yet his desert sand was able to block C3 with no problem. Meaning his gourd sand has more of his chakra in it correct?


Pound for pound?  Sure, his gourd sand has more chakra in it than the sand he uses to block C3 with.  Total chakra?  Obviously not, gaara's gourd sand couldn't even block 4 susanoo slashes, couldn't even block madara's susanoo blades.  



Kazekage94 said:


> First it was meteor now it's meteors?  Make up your mind. 2 is better than 1 even if the first was lightened.


I said meteors since he failed to block either of them.  He failed to block the first one on his own since oonoki had to make it super light, he failed to block the second one despite completely stopping the first.  Even if you combine the power of both meteor drops it still pales in comparison to the C4 in this thread or C0.



Kazekage94 said:


> Yet it pertains to this entire post.


No it doesn't.  The post gave evidence to quantify gaara's limits.  You simply saying that gaara 'can use many defenses' or 'can put quite a lot of chakra into them' is irrelevant to post.  You have to go and show how many defenses gaara is capable of using, and how powerful each is in order to correctly address that post.  




Kazekage94 said:


> I said if anything. Which I meant C0 is more plausible at being 50x larger. His SSDW blocked the entire explosion. The city was unharmed. It's larger.


His SSDW didn't block the entire explosion, it only blocked half of it that would have hit the city, the rest of it went into the sky, and even if it did block the entire explosion, that in no way shape or form has anything to do with SSDW being as big as the explosion.  The Juubi took the entire explosion of its own bijuudama in its stomache, does that mean that the juubi is bigger than the explosion of a juubidama?  Obviously not.  



Kazekage94 said:


> Yet it still didn't get through.


That's attacking a strawman on your part since I never argued that it did get through, only that it damaged his defenses.  Since you've been forced to ignore my argument and attack a strawman, I'm guessing you concede the point that it did in fact damage his defenses.



Kazekage94 said:


> Lol. Irrelevant.


It's completely relevant.  I don't understand why you continue to try to delude yourself.  You know you have no positive argument, you know that the only way what you're saying works is if you give gaara no limits and ignore all evidence of his limits, yet you continue to relentlessly argue a stance that's against all the evidence.  Why?  Even if everyone on this site agreed with your stance by doing the same thing you're doing: ignoring all arguments and extrapolating your own, that doesn't mean anything about what's really true.  Isn't that what you're trying to discuss: what's really true?  If not, then go to the fanfiction section, or just find a group of gaara supporters.


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## Icegaze (Dec 5, 2014)

Kazekage94 said:


> It wasn't difficult at all to handle C3. It wasn't hard to decipher block the bomb.
> 
> Gaara had enough chakra to do so. So what made it difficult?
> 
> The manga doesn't show 50x larger nor does it state that either.



the manga doesnt show its 3 times larger either. C4 deidara was easily the size of a boss summon
C3 was hardly 3 times bigger than deidara. seriously i dont understand why you arent seeing the panels the way every other human is telling you 

C4= much larger explosion, considering the amount of sand gaara needed for c3. a c4 explosion would kill him. 

same way no one woudl attempt arguing he can block C0.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 6, 2014)

Icegaze said:


> the manga doesnt show its 3 times larger either. C4 deidara was easily the size of a boss summon
> C3 was hardly 3 times bigger than deidara. seriously i dont understand why you arent seeing the panels the way every other human is telling you
> 
> C4= much larger explosion, considering the amount of sand gaara needed for c3. a c4 explosion would kill him.
> ...



You're completely missing the point.


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## Kazekage94 (Dec 6, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> yet you base that assertion on...... nothing.  While I base my assertion that it's 50x larger.... on what we actually see in the manga.... which shows it's 50x larger.  Do you not see the problem with your reasoning?


No it doesn't show 50x larger. Its vague dude.


> I'm asserting something is true, I'm showing you that it's true because the manga shows it's true.  You're not only saying that what the manga shows isn't true, but you're also saying that something else is true and giving no reasons for it.


Not it doesnt show it's true. No concrete evidence to suggest you are right.


> ...if the picture shows the bomb is 50x larger..... then obviously that's proof that the bomb is 50x larger.  Or are you saying that if the manga shows something, then it's not proof that what the manga shows is true?  ARe you saying that if the manga shows gaara making a sandwave that's bigger than a mountain.... that that's not proof that gaara can make a sandwave bigger than a mountain?


Where on the scan does it say 50x larger? I can say 3 times larger which it is. Stacked up. Does that mean it is? No. So you are wrong.


> Don't waste my time.


You're choosing to respond. You have the power to waste your time not me.


> I don't have to prove a negative, if you want to assert a fresh gaara could replicate the same move without showing signs of exhaustion, give me the positive argument.


I already told you why and how.



> That's only one meteorite since gaara had already completely stopped the first one, and that's only after it was extremely lightened by oonoki.  He's not defending against a single one.


So you agree that he blocked the first one? Ok thanks. 



> That's irrelevant.  It doesn't matter if explosions never made it through his sand and meteors did, it could just be the case that the meteors are far stronger than any of the explosions that gaara's sand has blocked.  And that's true since the strongest explosion gaara has ever blocked is merely C3.


The question pertained to explosions. Are you stupid? You're the one talking about this extra shit.



> So once again, show me gaara's sand getting hit with an explosion and blunt force attack like the meteor drop when both are equal in power and one doing more damage to his sand than the other.  Else, youre assertion that the mechanics are the reason why he couldn't block the meteor is completely baseless.


Meteor is irrelevant. I don't know why you brought it up.
They don't have the same effective properties. A dropping meteor crushes, and explosion does not.


> That's a textbook example of a no limits fallacy.  Gaara never showed his absolute limits, let's extrapolate his limits to infinity, incomparably beyond his greatest feat or implied defensive ability in the manga.


He showed his limit when he was knocked out after moving the sand away from the village.



> Nope, gaara's greatest defensive feat is blocking C3, he gets instantly exhausted from doing so despite being a jinchuriki, he can't even block a meteor, he doesn't get the feats of blocking something incomparably more powerful than both.


Exhausted after having a long battle with Deidara which costed him lots of chakra. TThat's what the manga shows. 



> And I completely agree that he can do that, but that's completely irrelevant to our discussion.  You have to show that the amount of defensese gaara can make can withstand a bomb that's 50x more powerful than C3.  Gaara being able to put chakra into however many defenses he can make tells us nothing about his ability to block it.


It's not irrelevant to the topic though. Here we go with this 50x shit again.


> well then you agree with my initial point: that his sand defense had to be chakra infused and compacted.


I never said it didnt. 



> Pound for pound?  Sure, his gourd sand has more chakra in it than the sand he uses to block C3 with.  Total chakra?  Obviously not, gaara's gourd sand couldn't even block 4 susanoo slashes, couldn't even block madara's susanoo blades.


Using all of his chakra would kill him.
Once again irrelevant. And he blocked all of those swords. 5 actually and sustained no damaged at all. This extra stuff is irrelevant. 




> I said meteors since he failed to block either of them.  He failed to block the first one on his own since oonoki had to make it super light, he failed to block the second one despite completely stopping the first.  Even if you combine the power of both meteor drops it still pales in comparison to the C4 in this thread or C0.


How did he fail to block the first one when he succeeded? He tried and he succeeded. If someone fails, that same person has to try first.


> No it doesn't.  The post gave evidence to quantify gaara's limits.  You simply saying that gaara 'can use many defenses' or 'can put quite a lot of chakra into them' is irrelevant to post.  You have to go and show how many defenses gaara is capable of using, and how powerful each is in order to correctly address that post.


No it isn't.



> His SSDW didn't block the entire explosion, it only blocked half of it that would have hit the city, the rest of it went into the sky, and even if it did block the entire explosion, that in no way shape or form has anything to do with SSDW being as big as the explosion.  The Juubi took the entire explosion of its own bijuudama in its stomache, does that mean that the juubi is bigger than the explosion of a juubidama?  Obviously not.


It still blocked the explosion regardless. Obviously it wasn't that powerful.


> That's attacking a strawman on your part since I never argued that it did get through, only that it damaged his defenses.  Since you've been forced to ignore my argument and attack a strawman, I'm guessing you concede the point that it did in fact damage his defenses.


Umm...if that's what you think when I gave you evidence then ok.



> It's completely relevant.  I don't understand why you continue to try to delude yourself.  You know you have no positive argument, you know that the only way what you're saying works is if you give gaara no limits and ignore all evidence of his limits, yet you continue to relentlessly argue a stance that's against all the evidence.  Why?  Even if everyone on this site agreed with your stance by doing the same thing you're doing: ignoring all arguments and extrapolating your own, that doesn't mean anything about what's really true.  Isn't that what you're trying to discuss: what's really true?  If not, then go to the fanfiction section, or just find a group of gaara supporters.


One could say the same about you. I didn't  ignored anything. You're the pne who can't even look at his full capabilities.


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