# The French Mali Intervention Thread



## Megaharrison (Jan 11, 2013)

> French troops are reported to have arrived in Mali amid a rapid escalation of international efforts to intervene in the country, where Islamist groups are continuing to clash with the army for control of the desert north.
> 
> The French president, Fran?ois Hollande, and his foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, are expected to issue statements shortly on the situation in the country and France's role there.
> 
> ...





Go France go


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## Brotha Yasuji (Jan 11, 2013)

I haven't really kept up on the Mali situation, but when did the northern insurgents become Islamist? I thought they were Berbers fighting for independence?


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## Owl (Jan 11, 2013)

It's not like the French are after the oil reserves in Northern Mali, right?


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## Jin-E (Jan 11, 2013)

Isn't this abit embarassing for African states? They rail about European states supposedly butting into african affairs and yet they once again are forced to rely on them.

On the fight itself, i guess the islamists will probably realise that they are at a disadvantage here and will withdraw. Unless they want to try and finish Mali off quickly before even greater substansial foreign assistance arrive.


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## dummy plug (Jan 11, 2013)

the French intervention was inevitable, it was just a matter of time


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## makeoutparadise (Jan 11, 2013)

Go France librate Mali!!!!


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## Megaharrison (Jan 11, 2013)

Jin-E said:


> Isn't this abit embarassing for African states? They rail about European states supposedly butting into african affairs and yet they once again are forced to rely on them.
> 
> On the fight itself, i guess the islamists will probably realise that they are at a disadvantage here and will withdraw. Unless they want to try and finish Mali off quickly before even greater substansial foreign assistance arrive.



This more or less sums up AU foreign policy. Baaaw about imperialism and those mean Europeans 100 years ago to justify every failure/human rights abuse but when shit hits the fan, they go to them for help. France has done this in Libya, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, and Chad all in the last decade.

Also lol@Hollande supposedly pulling French troops back globally.


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## Kafuka de Vil (Jan 11, 2013)

I'm sure the rebels are shaking in their boots.


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## Ceria (Jan 11, 2013)

MbS said:


> I'm sure the rebels are shaking in their boots.



probably waiting for the swift retreat.


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## Jin-E (Jan 12, 2013)

First French casualty occured in Mali. A pilot died of his wounds due to enemy fire.

There were also a failed attempt to rescue a french hostage in Somalia.

Not been a very good week for the French military


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 12, 2013)

They are fighting in two different countries. The main fight is in Mali, the operation in Somalia was an attempt to rescue an hostage. 
The Jihadists thought they could use hostages as shield to prevent french operation against them.


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## oprisco (Jan 12, 2013)

What the fuck is going on

*A French helicopter was shot down in Mali, pilot killed*


> Responding to an urgent plea for help from the Malian government, French troops carried out airstrikes against Islamist fighters, blunting an advance by hundreds of heavily armed extremists, according to French officials and Gen. Carter F. Ham, the top American military commander in Africa. One French helicopter had apparently been downed in the fighting, he said.


*France confirms failed Somali hostage rescue*


> A French hostage kidnapped in Somalia has been killed during a failed rescue operation, the French defence ministry says.
> 
> Two French soldiers were also killed during the raid, a defence ministry statement released on Saturday, said. The hostage was reportedly a French special forces officer, who goes by the pseudonym "Denis".
> 
> Additionally 17 Somali fighters were also killed in the fighting between French forces and al-Shabab rebel fighters in southern Somalia.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 12, 2013)

You guys expect a war without casualties ??? Even in Iraq and Afghanistan there are casualties. 
Plus the report are less focused on the Jihadists casualties. In Mali, the Frenco African troops regained the city of Konna and hundreds of Jihadists were killed there.
It's a war and we accept the fact we'll have casualties in our side too.

Now I wonder if this Operation "Serval" was designed to stop the Jihadists or laos regain the North and reach Timbuktu.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm actually surprised at the casualties. The French usually bulldoze in these kind of Francafrique ops.


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## Coteaz (Jan 12, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]uqdxBh4ZUeM[/YOUTUBE]


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## Coteaz (Jan 12, 2013)

People are surprised that helicopters get shot down? A week didn't go by in Iraq or Afghanistan without a US helicopter getting taken out or crashing.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 12, 2013)

France should work it communication on it operation. We don't really know how many troop involved right now and if they'll send more people. They also must beat the Jihadists in the war of communication.

The Op?ration Serval's goal is to stop the Jihadists in their invasion and protect the South and especially Bamako. 
I hope they planning to an offensive the North. 
I'm surprised by the lack of involvement from other western nations. I only heard the US proposed to give a logistical support and informations.

[dailymotion]xwpi75_french-military-intervenes-to-stop-mali-militants_news?search_algo=2#.UPGMtEd0hJc[/dailymotion]

[dailymotion]xwpjlm_malians-welcome-french-military-intervention_news?search_algo=2#.UPGNPUd0hJc[/dailymotion]




Bill the Troll said:


> I'm actually surprised at the casualties. The French usually bulldoze in these kind of Francafrique ops.



It seems the battlefield there is more intense than in other part of francophone Africa..


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## Megaharrison (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the number of troops right now is ~300 based on what I've seen, mostly BFST, Commando Parachute Group, and Foreign Legion. The troops in Somalia were from GIGN.

Overnight battles around some place called Koundra saw French-led troops supported by aircraft kill ~100 Islamists.

Chopper lost was a Gazelle light attack helicopter:


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## Saishin (Jan 12, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> France should work it communication on it operation. We don't really know how many troop involved right now and if they'll send more people. They also must beat the Jihadists in the war of communication.
> 
> The Op?ration Serval's goal is to stop the Jihadists in their invasion and protect the South and especially Bamako.
> I hope they planning to an offensive the North.
> *I'm surprised by the lack of involvement from other western nations. I only heard the US proposed to give a logistical support and informations.*


Maybe because after all France got a powerful armed forces so no need that other western nations intervened in Mali unless they don't offer themselves to help the french or France ask their help


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 12, 2013)

Saishin said:


> Maybe because after all France got a powerful armed forces so no need that other western nations intervened in Mali unless they don't offer themselves to help the french or France ask their help



But an European involvement was request by the French in Mali long time before. At first, it was to train Malian army. I don't expect them to be there already but I'm surprised only the US consider to send something.


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## Saishin (Jan 12, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But an European involvement was request by the French in Mali long time before. At first, it was to train Malian army. I don't expect them to be there already but I'm surprised only the US consider to send something.


If so probably the others will wait that the combat operations will end and then maybe they could send troops for a peacekeeping mission


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## Megaharrison (Jan 12, 2013)

French airstrikes have killed about 100 people in Konna, which recently fell to French/Mali troops. Despite the initial incidents things are still going as planned and smoothly.

Also next stupid French surrender joke person gets banned. I appreciate racist humor as much as anyone else but it's annoying by this point.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 13, 2013)

*Air strikes keep pressure on Mali rebels*



> *Air strikes keep pressure on Mali rebels*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 13, 2013)

> *French planes strike Mali rebel stronghold of Gao*
> 
> 
> British Islamists protest outside the French Embassy in London January 12, 2013.
> ...


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## Chelydra (Jan 13, 2013)

And the French still need transport and logistical support from the big ole US 

http://news.yahoo.com/france-us-helping-support-mali-operation-181909624.html

Still attacking and killing extremists is always a good thing.


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## Hero of Shadows (Jan 13, 2013)

Shouldn't that sign be in French ?


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## Megaharrison (Jan 13, 2013)

Chelydra said:


> And the French still need transport and logistical support from the big ole US
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/france-us-helping-support-mali-operation-181909624.html
> 
> Still attacking and killing extremists is always a good thing.



The US is pretty much the only country in the world that can commit a large-scale military operation anywhere in the world, not very surprising.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 13, 2013)

Hero of Shadows said:


> Shouldn't that sign be in French ?



The sign coming from a group of British muslim in front of the French embassy in London.


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## Mider T (Jan 13, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> The US is pretty much the only country in the world that can commit a large-scale military operation anywhere in the world, not very surprising.



I was going to say this, any other country in the world would ask for AFRICOM support as well.  US also had a hand in Somalia yesterday.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 13, 2013)

Mider T said:


> I was going to say this, any other country in the world would ask for AFRICOM support as well.  US also had a hand in Somalia yesterday.



It provided intel for it yes. Obviously the intel was pretty bad though....


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## navy (Jan 13, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> French airstrikes have killed about 100 people in Konna, which recently fell to French/Mali troops. Despite the initial incidents things are still going as planned and smoothly.
> 
> Also next stupid French surrender joke person gets banned. I appreciate racist humor as much as anyone else but it's annoying by this point.



100? How many were civilians?


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## Hero of Shadows (Jan 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The sign coming from a group of British muslim in front of the French embassy in London.



Yep you're right it's right under the picture actually, no more posting while sleeping for me.


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## Mider T (Jan 14, 2013)




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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 14, 2013)

Mali army lost the town of Diabaly while French force keep bombing Northern Mali. Germany, the UK and the US will give logistic support to French and African troops. 

The strategy of France is to leave it to the African but with the current situation, we forced to do the job to give time for the African forces to be ready for a counter attack.

What is also surprising for me is that Rafale planes can do take off from France to attack Jihadists bases in Mali. the threat is so close that we can do it from our country.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> What is also surprising for me is that Rafale planes can do take off from France to attack Jihadists bases in Mali. the threat is so close that we can do it from our country.



They mid-air refuel on the way via some Airbus A330 MRTT's. It's not a particularly long flight. We bomb Sudan about once a year and do something similar.

Rafale's are largely unnecessary though. The Islamist have no air force or SAM defenses to speak of, and the Mirage 2000D is probably a better strike fighter.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 14, 2013)

Canada give an logistic support. After the UK, the US and Germany, Canada give logistical assistance.

Italy, Spain, where are you ??? You are close to the battlefield, even Canada do something.


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## Saishin (Jan 14, 2013)

News :33

*British plane bound for Mali delayed by technical fault*


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 14, 2013)

> *France fights almost solo in Mali*
> 
> By Claire Rosemberg (AFP) – 1 hour ago
> 
> ...





Denmark also said they'll give logistical help. I really hope for more European involvement because Europe's reluctance, send a very bad feeling to France.

Edit:


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## Saishin (Jan 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Canada give an logistic support. After the UK, the US and Germany, Canada give logistical assistance.
> 
> Italy, Spain, where are you ??? You are close to the battlefield, even Canada do something.


Italy is busy in Afghanistan  

At the moment you have to be content with this 



> *Italy expresses support for French operation in Mali*
> 
> 'We had prior notice' foreign ministry sources tell ANSA
> 
> ...


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## Chelydra (Jan 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> *Denmark also said they'll give logistical help. I really hope for more European involvement because Europe's reluctance, send a very bad feeling to France.*



Welcome to our world, enjoying it?


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## Mider T (Jan 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Denmark also said they'll give logistical help. I really hope for more European involvement because Europe's reluctance, send a very bad feeling to France.
> 
> Edit:



Wat.  Germany, Britain, Italy, and US have already pledged support, if France's doesn't need them badly why are they complaining?


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## Blue (Jan 14, 2013)

European nations do these little training wars once every decade or so. Keeps NATO staffed with a cadre of veterans, so I suppose it's harmless.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 14, 2013)

Mider T said:


> Wat.  Germany, Britain, Italy, and US have already pledged support, if France's doesn't need them badly why are they complaining?



I didn't heard about Italy. But between the time of French intervention and now, there were a long silence from the rest of Europe. We didn't expected that the first to side with us would be a non European country. Especially when the situation in Mali have an impact on European safety. 
There is also the fact we try to build a European defense policy. The lack of involvement from the European when we enter in a conflict for our common safety, is surprising.

But it's changed slowly. Maybe we're too strict. Other nations doesn't can't deploys army without pass via parliament or other institutions etc....


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## Shinigami Perv (Jan 14, 2013)

> *
> Mali conflict: France has opened gates of hell, say rebels
> 
> Islamist militant leader warns French government as fighter jets continue assault on rebel camps and convoys in central Mali*
> ...



Sounds like shit's getting real


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## Blue (Jan 14, 2013)

Buncha dudes with AK-47s and technicals against an air force. It's only a matter of time.


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## Ben Tennyson (Jan 14, 2013)

*U.S. pledges help to France against al-Qaida rebels in Mali*



> The U.S. today pledged to aid France's widening aerial assault on al Qaeda-linked rebels in Northern Mali, as Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the U.S. would provide the French with intelligence and airlift support and the State Department said it would send civilian contractors to the region as early as this week to train an African-led military force.
> 
> "I commend France for taking the steps it has," Panetta told reporters. "We have promised that we'll work with them and cooperate with them."
> 
> ...



http://news.yahoo.com/us-pledges-he...da-rebels-190613758--abc-news-topstories.html

hopefully more terrorist get killed.


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## First Tsurugi (Jan 14, 2013)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> Buncha dudes with AK-47s and technicals against an air force. It's only a matter of time.



You can't control the ground from the air.


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## Mider T (Jan 14, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> You can't control the ground from the air.



Is this a joke?


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## Yami Munesanzun (Jan 15, 2013)

Now to wait for the people who will condemn the US for getting involved in this.

Which, ironically, are likely also the same people who would condemn the US for _not_ getting involved.


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## Saishin (Jan 15, 2013)

> *France sends more troops to Mali as UN backs intervention*
> 
> A contingent of 750 French troops has joined the offensive against Islamist rebels in Mali, French president Francois Hollande said in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday after France secured fresh UN backing for its military action.
> 
> ...


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## The Pink Ninja (Jan 15, 2013)

US pledges to help Al-Qaeda against France.


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## Blue (Jan 15, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> You can't control the ground from the air.



Ooooooooh yes you can.

The barest essential of military ground control is the ability to shoot people who refuse your control, right?

So what difference a missile? A bomb? There is none.

Until recently, it wasn't possible, because there weren't enough aircraft to cover large areas solidly, and their weapons weren't accurate enough to target individuals on foot or in vehicles. But we're in the era of laser-guided bombs and drones now. A modern air force with air supremacy will simply kill enemy combatants in the field until the enemy is forced into hiding to preserve his remaining personnel, which is de facto ground control.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

Anyways, the Islamists have the Tuareg as enemy, the Tuareg have the local population as support.


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## Mider T (Jan 15, 2013)

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  It's the Islamists who are now the foreign invaders.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

The Tuareg wanted an Independent state in Norther Mali so they team up with these islamist militants. But When they Northern invasion was over, the Tuareg saw they were fooled by these Islamist that rules Northern Mali. Now the Tuareg renounced an independent state and want to negotiate with the Mali government for special rules in Northern Mali.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jan 15, 2013)

First Tsurugi said:


> You can't control the ground from the air.



You can't but you overlook two things

1) These strikes will cripple these AQ cells ability to operate inside or outside Mali for years

2) It will leave them so weakened that their domestic enemies on the ground can easily finish them off

Few armies in history have ever been 100% killed to the last man or even lost 50%, but heavy crippling blows like the sort Western air forces can generate can still completely shut down an enemy force.


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## Saishin (Jan 15, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> *I didn't heard about Italy. *But between the time of French intervention and now, there were a long silence from the rest of Europe. We didn't expected that the first to side with us would be a non European country. Especially when the situation in Mali have an impact on European safety.
> There is also the fact we try to build a European defense policy. The lack of involvement from the European when we enter in a conflict for our common safety, is surprising.
> 
> But it's changed slowly. Maybe we're too strict. Other nations doesn't can't deploys army without pass via parliament or other institutions etc....


We sent you a message of support  

As I said before much probably the others will wait the end of the war then they could send troop


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

Saishin said:


> We sent you a message of support
> 
> As I said before much probably the others will wait the end of the war then they could send troop



A message of support ??? Come on, you can do better than that. Even China "almost" send us a message of support.
What Italy and Spain could do is logistic like Belgium and Denmark.
Maybe open their bases for French planes, I don't know.

There is no more job for European when the war is over. We'll leave the rest to the Africans.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

I really want to know the feeling of British when they see these people protesting in their country, in their capital.

[dailymotion]xwpogr_londres-manifestation-de-musulmans-contre-la-france-au-mali_news#.UPWMr0d0hJc[/dailymotion]


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## Oldy (Jan 15, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I really want to know the feeling of British when they see these people protesting in their country, in their capital.


Why should they feel something about a few handful of nobodies protesting peacefully? If anything it shows proof that those guys are integrating well in their society: they're already cross about the french!


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## masamune1 (Jan 15, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I really want to know the feeling of British when they see these people protesting in their country, in their capital.
> 
> [dailymotion]xwpogr_londres-manifestation-de-musulmans-contre-la-france-au-mali_news#.UPWMr0d0hJc[/dailymotion]



I don't even think the Mali situation is being covered at all over here, so this will get even less than that. 

There are thousands of protests in Britain every year. They generally get ignored, regardless of the message.


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## Saishin (Jan 15, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> A message of support ??? Come on, you can do better than that. Even China "almost" send us a message of support.
> What Italy and Spain could do is logistic like Belgium and Denmark.
> Maybe open their bases for French planes, I don't know.
> 
> There is no more job for European when the war is over. We'll leave the rest to the Africans.


I told you that we're busy 

Anyway I read a news that they're waiting an official order from the UN to intervene in Mali but this was on Nov-Dec 2012 I don't know if in these 3 months things has changed especially now that France has started the military oparations.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 15, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I really want to know the feeling of British when they see these people protesting in their country, in their capital.
> 
> [dailymotion]xwpogr_londres-manifestation-de-musulmans-contre-la-france-au-mali_news#.UPWMr0d0hJc[/dailymotion]



If I got a nickel everytime some Europeans mindlessly protested against my country I'd be a very rich man. It's best not to care.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> If I got a nickel everytime some Europeans mindlessly protested against my country I'd be a very rich man. It's best not to care.



It's not the protest against France and it intervention that attract my attention but all the support for the Jihad and the fact they support those people who cut hands and legs as punishment in Mali. This, in the heart of a Capital of Europe.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 15, 2013)

Lots of fun pics of Frenchies in Mali:















~1,000 French troops in the country right now, mostly from the Foreign Legion, Marines, and Special Forces Brigade.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 15, 2013)

Comment by people from the city of Gao



> *"The armed groups still patrol the streets, but we feel like something has changed"*
> Am?dine is a teacher who lives in Gao.
> 
> 
> ...





> *"On red?couvre notre libert? perdue"*
> Cheick Yayaha (not his real name) is a member of a citizens? resistance group in Gao called ?Nous, pas bouger? (?We?re not moving?).
> 
> When the air strikes ended on Sunday, people spontaneously went out into the streets to celebrate. Lots of them were on the edges of the roads, discussing, laughing and mocking the Islamists who were packing up to leave.
> ...


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## navy (Jan 15, 2013)

So should the world help Syria the same way? Plenty of terrorist are now in the opposition...

Then again who wants to help Assad.


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## Alwaysmind (Jan 15, 2013)

navy said:


> So should the world help Syria the same way? Plenty of terrorist are now in the opposition...
> 
> Then again who wants to help Assad.



Except Iran and Russia are not close allies with Mali, so the French can just go ahead. And with the increased taxation in France, she can afford a long war.


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## Sunuvmann (Jan 15, 2013)

I for one fully support this and other such European involvement in world affairs.

One less fire for America to have to put out.


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## Sunuvmann (Jan 15, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Lots of fun pics of Frenchies in Mali:


Jeez. They call that a tank? o___0

Its like the love child of an APC and a tank.

What is the model on that anyway (wants to wikipedia it lol)


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## Blue (Jan 15, 2013)

An AMX-10 probably? 

If so, it's a 80s French piece of crap, but it's not like a bunch of Islamist guerrillas have anything to bust even the shit armor on that thing. The gun is the important part.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 16, 2013)

Sunuvmann said:


> Jeez. They call that a tank? o___0
> 
> Its like the love child of an APC and a tank.
> 
> What is the model on that anyway (wants to wikipedia it lol)



It's an ERC-90, light armored recon vehicle.



It's capable of being transported on a C-130. Hence why the Frenchies rushed them in with their Marine and Airborne units. Effective enough for the role intended for it, the Islamists certainly don't have much to counter it.

France has largely phased out MBT's along with most of Europe, the only "Western" armies with large amount of tanks are US/South Korea/Israel. So don't expect to see any Leclercs rampaging about (which they could fly in on a C-17). Heaviest vehicle we'll probably see is an AMX-10RC, which granted has a nasty gun on it.


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## Saishin (Jan 16, 2013)

Kunoichi no Kiri said:


> An AMX-10 probably?
> 
> *If so, it's a 80s French piece of crap,*but it's not like a bunch of Islamist guerrillas have anything to bust even the shit armor on that thing. The gun is the important part.


I don't know in America but as far as I know usually military vehicles have to last for years then when it needs they are updated with new technical features 

They could use the main tank of the French army a AMX 56 Leclerc


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

But I think we won't continue our vehicles industry. I'm not so aware about this industry but the lack of Leclercs sold abroad jeopardize this industry. I suppose France will work with the rest of Europe for new vehicles. We could maybe buy German leopard tanks, who know.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

*Islamists seize Japanese, French nationals in Algeria - sources*



> *Islamists seize Japanese, French nationals in Algeria - sources
> *
> 
> ALGIERS | Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:33am GMT
> ...


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## Saishin (Jan 16, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But I think we won't continue our vehicles industry. I'm not so aware about this industry but the lack of Leclercs sold abroad jeopardize this industry. I suppose France will work with the rest of Europe for new vehicles. We could maybe buy German leopard tanks, who know.


From wiki it seem that the only foreign country to have bought the Leclerc are the United Arab Emirates.Well this is already happening,many countries cooperate to build military veihicles,for example France and Italy have developed and built together the new FREMM multipurpose frigate for their navies.
Spain and Portugal have as their main tank the Leopard 

The FREMM


This is the FREMM of the Italian Navy


EDIT:

This is the FREMM of the French Navy


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

They fighting on the ground in Diabali. It's an violent Urban guerrilla between the French special forces and the toughest group of Jihadists in the region.


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## hadou (Jan 16, 2013)

*Dozens held after Islamists attack Algerian gas field*



> ALGIERS (Reuters) - Islamist militants attacked a gas field in Algeria on Wednesday, claiming to have kidnapped up to 41 foreigners including seven Americans in a dawn raid in retaliation for France's intervention in Mali, according to regional media reports.
> The raiders were also reported to have killed three people, including a Briton and a French national.
> An al Qaeda affiliated group said the raid had been carried out because of Algeria's decision to allow France to use its air space for attacks against Islamists in Mali, where French forces have been in action against al Qaeda-linked militants since last week.
> The attack in southern Algeria also raised fears that the French action in Mali could prompt further Islamist revenge attacks on Western targets in Africa, where al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) operates across borders in the Sahara desert, and in Europe.
> ...



http://news.yahoo.com/islamists-seize-japanese-french-nationals-algeria-sources-093252520.html

Obama, it's time to release the Navy Seals


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

I posted a thread about it.



please merge


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## hadou (Jan 16, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I posted a thread about it.
> 
> 
> 
> please merge



J'accord


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## Saishin (Jan 16, 2013)

Are you happy Le Male? 



> *Mali: Italy to offer France logistical support*
> 
> Italy is prepared to offer French forces logistical support for air operations against Islamic extremists in Mali.
> 
> ...


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## Mider T (Jan 16, 2013)

> A militant group claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was in revenge for Algeria's support of France's operation against al Qaeda-linked Malian rebels groups far to the southeast. It said it was holding dozens of foreigners hostage.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

> *18h24 : *
> 
> Les groupes arm?s islamistes, contre lesquels le Mali m?ne la guerre avec l'appui de la France, utilisent des enfants soldats et "les populations comme boucliers" dans les zones qu'ils investissent, a affirm? mercredi ? l'AFP un responsable de l'arm?e malienne.
> 
> Les islamistes arm?s "ont deux strat?gies: les populations comme boucliers et des enfants soldats comme combattants", a d?clar? ce responsable militaire, sous couvert d'anonymat. Selon lui, c'est actuellement le cas ? Diabali (400 km au nord de Bamako) o?, d'apr?s des sources de s?curit?, des combats rapproch?s opposaient mercredi soldats fran?ais des forces sp?ciales et combattants islamistes.





I try a translation...

The armed Islamic Group, which Mali conduct a war with the support of France, use children soldiers and "local people as shield" in the area they control, say Wednesday to AFP a Malian army representative.  

The armed Islamists have two strategies: the locals population as shield and the children soldiers as fighters", declared a Malian army representative, anonymously. According to him, it's the case in Diabali (400 km in the North of Bamako) where, according to security sources, closes combats opposed on Wednesday, French special forces and Islamic fighters.


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## Mider T (Jan 16, 2013)

> A militant group claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was in revenge for Algeria's support of France's operation against al Qaeda-linked Malian rebels groups far to the southeast. It said it was holding dozens of foreigners hostage.



How is that vengeance?  Seems like just blind lashing out at the West in general.  Nothing to do with the French here.


----------



## Saishin (Jan 16, 2013)

Mider T said:


> How is that vengeance?  Seems like just blind lashing out at the West in general.  Nothing to do with the French here.


Now the danger is that with this war involving France and the countries that support the military intervention is to see an increasing of the risk of terrorist attacks in Europe and in other african states like exactly the kidnapping of foreign nationals.

Well Le Male are you happy or not that Italy will give its support to France?


----------



## Megaharrison (Jan 16, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> But I think we won't continue our vehicles industry. I'm not so aware about this industry but the lack of Leclercs sold abroad jeopardize this industry. I suppose France will work with the rest of Europe for new vehicles. We could maybe buy German leopard tanks, who know.



The French Army after the White Papers of 2008 made a decision to gradually eliminate the Leclercs in service (which is a big mistake imo). Of the 409 Leclercs in France's inventory, only about 270 are in service right now vs. the ~1,300 AMX-30's that were in service in the French army in 1989. Which is a shame, because the Leclerc is a great tank. 

I expect none of them will see service in Mali either, even though they'd be great for the role. Mali is wide, open, flat, and against a dug-in enemy with no heavy firepower.

As for this mass-abduction thing, you can't hold that many people in a very hidden location. French special forces and Navy SEAL's need to get on rescuing them ASAP. The ineptitudes of the Algerians are coming back to bite the West in the ass once more.


----------



## hadou (Jan 16, 2013)

Obama to the Navy Seals: "Sic 'em boys"


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## Megaharrison (Jan 16, 2013)

Reading around, it seems the location of the hostages is known. The terrorists are still outside the general BP complex and have released Algerian workers, holding only Americans, French, Norwegians, British, and Japanese citizens. They're demanding that the Algerian gov. gives them heavy vehicles sothey can transport the hostages to northern Mali.

Pray that the Algerians don't try to free the hostages with their "special forces",  This is a job for GIGN/SEAL's and not ragtags whose primary job is massacring farmers and student protestors. Also pray they don't give in to the terrorists request either. If they move into Mali this will become quite a bit more complicated.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 16, 2013)

^Those were pretty much my fears.  It sounded odd when the news reported the Algerians were attempting to negotiate with the terrorists, they can "help" by getting the hell out of the way.


----------



## Ennoea (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh man I really hope they can get Special forces in there as quick as possible. Transporting the hostages to North Mali will turn this in to an incredibly problematic situation.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

Saishin said:


> Now the danger is that with this war involving France and the countries that support the military intervention is to see an increasing of the risk of terrorist attacks in Europe and in other african states like exactly the kidnapping of foreign nationals.
> 
> Well Le Male are you happy or not that Italy will give its support to France?



I accuse Italy to follow Germany's move. lol

But seriously, the general mood here is that Europe left France alone in the front line. 

Cohn Bendit in EU Parliament



> “Madam Ashton, you said ‘We, we are concerned.’ Everyone says ‘We’ but there are only French soldiers over there. The French were told ‘We’ll give you nurses, now go and get killed in Mali.’”



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUM1pukZ2I[/YOUTUBE]

Well Cohn Bendit is not famous for his calm but it's a little bit the feeling here.



Now in my opinion, the rest of Europe doesn't want to send soldiers for combat because they have no trust in French. They approve what the French doing but that's all.
But logistic support is better than nothing.


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## Mider T (Jan 16, 2013)

The fact that the French are virtually the only ones fighting make the Islamists in Algeria holding the BP complex hostage seem even more ridiculous.  There are no Japanese, Norwegian, or American troops in Mali nor are their any French hostages in Algeria, the two are completely separate.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 16, 2013)

Al Arabiya is reporting the terrorists are domestic and did not come from Mali, though they're intended to make it to Mali now.

If so they're probably these fellows:


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Reading around, it seems the location of the hostages is known. The terrorists are still outside the general BP complex and have released Algerian workers, holding only Americans, French, Norwegians, British, and Japanese citizens. They're demanding that the Algerian gov. gives them heavy vehicles sothey can transport the hostages to northern Mali.
> 
> Pray that the Algerians don't try to free the hostages with their "special forces",  This is a job for *GIGN/SEAL's* and not ragtags whose primary job is massacring farmers and student protestors. Also pray they don't give in to the terrorists request either. If they move into Mali this will become quite a bit more complicated.



The SEAL maybe but certainly not the GIGN. Algeria would never ever allow a French unit to enter in their territory in my opinion.


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## Mider T (Jan 16, 2013)

CBS described them as an "al-Qaeda offshoot" but their intention was stated to be as revenge for the French troops in Mali.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 16, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The SEAL maybe but certainly not the GIGN. Algeria would never ever allow a French unit to enter in their territory in my opinion.



Too fucking bad it's their ineptitudes that led to this mess in the first place. Algerians need to stop being butthurt over something 60 years ago and get their damn act together. Especially since they so generously accept French weapons.

EU/US need to put up the pressure on the Algerians to handle this correctly.


----------



## hadou (Jan 16, 2013)

According to CNN the military is collecting information so that when Obama gives the go ahead, they are ready.


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## Saishin (Jan 16, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I accuse Italy to follow Germany's move. lol
> 
> But seriously, the general mood here is that Europe left France alone in the front line.


What do you mean? 

You decided to go alone if France wanted support why it didn't ask it before to start?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

Saishin said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> You decided to go alone if France wanted support why it didn't ask it before to start?



Lol, I wasn't serious, with my accusation lol. But if you want a serious answer about why France go there alone, it was because the situation there was too critical and needed a quick intervention to stop the Jihadists. Without the French intervention, Bamako would be under the control of the Jihadists and if Bamako fall, it's the end of Mali and the beginning of an terrorist state near Europe. 

Long time before the intervention, the strategy of France was to organize with the African, an pan African force to counter the Jihadists, the role of France and the EU was to train this pan African force. But with the quick advance of the Jihadists, France was forced to act alone, no time to ask before.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 16, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Too fucking bad it's their ineptitudes that led to this mess in the first place. Algerians need to stop being butthurt over something 60 years ago and get their damn act together. Especially since they so generously accept French weapons.
> 
> EU/US need to put up the pressure on the Algerians to handle this correctly.



I saw on BFMTV, according to journalists specialist of Algeria, that Algeria is very proud of it sovereignty and would not allow a foreign unity to do the job on it ground. Maybe the US pressure Algeria.

Edit: 
The News channel France24 said the had a contact with one of the hostage. He said he is with British, Japaneses, Filipinos and Malaysians. They are forced to wear explosive belts. The News channel don't know if the hostage talk under the threat.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

Algerian forced launched the assault. 37 hostages dead, 7 hostages still alive.


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## Mider T (Jan 17, 2013)

Fucking incompetence.  We all called it.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 17, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Algerian forced launched the assault. 37 hostages dead, 7 hostages still alive.



This is why I asked that we pray they wouldn't do that. Fucking shame. Their arrogance blinded their reason.


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## Yachiru (Jan 17, 2013)

I think it's time for Europe to stop pussying around and develop drones. Islamists should be targets of assassination.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

We already work on home made drones. I'm not sure but we already own Israeli drones.


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## Yachiru (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the Algerian military has done the right thing. The terrorists need to know that ANY taking of hostages will end in a bloodbath for them.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> This is why I asked that we pray they wouldn't do that. Fucking shame. Their arrogance blinded their reason.



In fact, I think they didn't care about the hostages. They were more butthurt by the fact, a gang took hostages IN THEIR GAS PLANT. 
They felt humiliated and decide to make pay these gangsters rather than try to find a solution for the hostages. The lives of the hostages wasn't the first priorities. The first priority was to destroy those who humiliate the country by seizing their gas plant.

This is what I think.


Edit: I was busy. I just seeing that the siege is not over......


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## Nemesis (Jan 17, 2013)

Yachiru said:


> I think the Algerian military has done the right thing. The terrorists need to know that ANY taking of hostages will end in a bloodbath for them.



That is how they want it though.  When hostages are taken it shouldn't be lets rush in guns blazing and hope that 1 hostage survives.

It has to be take things carefully and make sure all hostages survive.  1 death is a failure.  Over 30 = someone fucked up.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 17, 2013)

Le male more or less summed up what went wrong. They didn't even try to rescue the hostages, they just bOmbed the sight. Algeria has a lot to answer for. Western military support for this country needs to be reexamined.


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## hadou (Jan 17, 2013)

I know this is out of topic, but which is better, the Navy Seals or England's SAS?


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## Nemesis (Jan 17, 2013)

^ In b4 nationalistic dick waving.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 17, 2013)

hadou said:


> I know this is out of topic, but which is better, the Navy Seals or England's SAS?



They're the same and it all depends on situation/context. These things are too complicated to be measured in power levels


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## hadou (Jan 17, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> They're the same and it all depends on situation/context. These things are too complicated to be measured in power levels



So they're on equal grounds? This is a topic that has been on my mind for a while.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

I watching Algerian news on a Algerian channel. I'm surprised what happening in their country is not the main information.....


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## Megaharrison (Jan 17, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I watching Algerian news on a Algerian channel. I'm surprised what happening in their country is not the main information.....



Algeria is a human rights abusing junta that has murdered 100,000 of its own people not so long ago. Their state media is not the most reliable source of information on this.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

What happened in Algeria will have a huge impact on Algeria's image and impact it economy. Companies already based there could consider to leave the region, and those who considered to invest in the country could reconsider their plan.
It's also a diplomatic mistake because the UK, the US and Japan are the countries among the other, the most furious.

I don't know in your country but here, the media already prepare us by telling us we'll see other seize hostages and terrorists attacks like that.


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## hadou (Jan 17, 2013)

The US will now provide airlifts for French troops.


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## makeoutparadise (Jan 17, 2013)

I hope there will be a silver lining


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## Kind of a big deal (Jan 17, 2013)

Seems like the Netherlands amongst others will also supply air-lifts. I guess it's something, and it's more than most, but to be honest I'd want more European countries to have troops involved directly rather than fairly weaksauce transport stuff.

If only to send a stronger message of European solidarity amongst member states, but also towards the opponents that France's actions are supported and shared by an international community, rather than just aided or tolerated.

Well regardless, seems like support is slowly but surely growing, and that's a good thing, generally speaking.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

Kind of a big deal said:


> Seems like the Netherlands amongst others will also supply air-lifts. I guess it's something, and it's more than most, but to be honest I'd want more European countries to have troops involved directly rather than fairly weaksauce transport stuff.
> 
> If only to send a stronger message of European solidarity amongst member states, but also towards the opponents that France's actions are supported and shared by an international community, rather than just aided or tolerated.
> 
> Well regardless, seems like support is slowly but surely growing, and that's a good thing, generally speaking.



Thank you. Seriously, I was wondering how was the mood in the rest of Europe. When I read comments on francophone Belgium news, people are pissed to see their country involved in this conflict, even if it's just to bring logistic. France also feel Europe support him.......but not too close....
The hope to create a European defense is seriously threaten in the mind of French because of the lack of reaction from Europe. Now we see more debate about how France can increase it military budget and still be able to act on his own.


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## Oldy (Jan 17, 2013)

The french already gave up on the idea of an European defense a few years ago Le male. The UK and France are the only countries in Europe with the will and (somewhat) capacity to react to military threat in their backyards. The rest of Europe is nonexistent as far as military operation is concerned.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 17, 2013)

We changed government and this new government try via a Franco Germano Polish axes to establish an European military HQ as a base for a European military.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 18, 2013)

*Islamists attack Algerian oil field*



> slamist militants attacked a gas field in Algeria yesterday, claiming to have kidnapped up to 41 foreigners including seven Americans in a dawn raid in retaliation for France?s intervention in Mali, according to regional media reports.
> 
> The raiders were also reported to have killed three people, including a Briton and a French national.
> 
> ...



Come on Cafe, you're slipping. How did no one post this?


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## navy (Jan 18, 2013)

Islamist are no longer newsworthy....


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 18, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Come on Cafe, you're slipping. How did no one post this?



It was posted twice and no one cared. It was mostly debated in the thrad about the French intervention in Mali.


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## Megaharrison (Jan 18, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> It was posted twice and no one cared. It was mostly debated in the thrad about the French intervention in Mali.



Cafe generally doesn't give a shit if isn't about Palestinians or rape.


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## Alwaysmind (Jan 18, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Thank you. Seriously, I was wondering how was the mood in the rest of Europe. When I read comments on francophone Belgium news, people are pissed to see their country involved in this conflict, even if it's just to bring logistic. France also feel Europe support him.......but not too close....
> The hope to create a European defense is seriously threaten in the mind of French because of the lack of reaction from Europe. Now we see more debate about how France can increase it military budget and still be able to act on his own.



David Pujadas showed a clip of some opposition party saying that this was a modern form of "reconqu?te". 
I was wondering what is Male Dominant's thought on the matter.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jan 18, 2013)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Come on Cafe, you're slipping. How did no one post this?



Like someone else said, you have to think like a tabloid writer in Cafe


Compare 

"Islamists attack Algerian oil field" :sleepy to
"25 die in Algerian hostage debacle, France embarrassed" <-something like this 



> *Algeria launches hostage rescue, reportedly frees 650 *
> 
> CNN) -- Militants strapping plastic explosives around the necks of foreign workers seized in the remote Algerian desert. Hostages secretly inventing disguises to escape their captors.
> 
> ...




Seems most hostages were freed.


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## Saishin (Jan 18, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Lol, I wasn't serious, with my accusation lol. But if you want a serious answer about why France go there alone, it was because the situation there was too critical and needed a quick intervention to stop the Jihadists. Without the French intervention, Bamako would be under the control of the Jihadists and if Bamako fall, it's the end of Mali and the beginning of an terrorist state near Europe.
> 
> Long time before the intervention, the strategy of France was to organize with the African, an pan African force to counter the Jihadists, the role of France and the EU was to train this pan African force. But with the quick advance of the Jihadists, France was forced to act alone, no time to ask before.


Well it's true that it was a quick action,no one expected that these terrorists would been such a huge threat for the Mali government.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 18, 2013)

Alwaysmind said:


> David Pujadas showed a clip of some opposition party saying that this was a modern form of "reconqu?te".
> I was wondering what is Male Dominant's thought on the matter.



Opposition party ?? The right wing ??? At the beggining of the op, all the major political parties support the op. But even if they support it, they feel free to critic the way it's done and the most aggressive in my opinion is not the right wing but the far left and the greens (the green party is a far left party for me)...the same that side with Hollande during the election and critic everything to still exist in front of media.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 18, 2013)

France deny that Diabali was also liberated.


Also,  and will send a .


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## Alwaysmind (Jan 18, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Opposition party ?? The right wing ??? At the beggining of the op, all the major political parties support the op. But even if they support it, they feel free to critic the way it's done and the most aggressive in my opinion is not the right wing but the far left and the greens (the green party is a far left party for me)...the same that side with Hollande during the election and critic everything to still exist in front of media.



Je m'en souviens plus. C'etait sur le Journal de 20 Heures. I have to say that I am still a bit in shock, well perhaps that is not the best word....I am still surprised about the situation in Mali. I did not see that one coming.


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## Alwaysmind (Jan 18, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> France deny that Diabali was also liberated.
> 
> 
> Also,  and will send a .



Merci mon cher, 
cette carte est tr?s utile.


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## Mider T (Jan 18, 2013)

Stop it


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## Megaharrison (Jan 18, 2013)

If anyone's curious I was digging through my collected military archives the other day (basically I've slowly been amassing info on every military in the world over the last 5 years) and this is what I got on Mali's military, it's from ~2010 though:


*Spoiler*: __ 




-Yearly Budget: $88 Million (3% of GDP)
-Conscription: Yes
Size:
-Total: 7,750 Active, 3,000 Reserve, 4,800 Paramilitary
	-Army: 7,350
	-Air Force: 400
	-National Police: 4,800 (Paramilitary)
	-National Guard: 3,000 (Reserve)
-Major Formations:
	-Ground Forces:
		-2 Tank Battalions, 4 Infantry Battalions, 2 Artillery Battalions, 1 Engineer Battalion, 1 Air Defense Battalion
	-Air Force: 3 Squadrons, 1 Regiment
	-Special Forces: 1 Battalion
Foreign Relations
Alliances:
	-France, Chad, Senegal, Nigeria, Niger, Burkina-Faso, Togo, Benin, Ghana
-Enemies:
	-Rebels (MNLA Rebels and Islamists)
-Tense/Hostile Relations:
	-Israel (no Relations)
-Major Deployments & Wars:
	-Civil War (vs. MNLA Rebels and Islamists)
        -DR Congo: 38 personnel
        -Liberia: 232 personnel
        -Sierre Leone: 13 personnel
Arms Trade
-Arms Imports:
1.	France
2.	Russia
3.	South Africa
4.     United States
-Arms Exports:
	-None

Equipment:
Small Arms:
-Browning-HP Pistol
-MAT-49 Submachine Gun
-AKM Assault Rifle
-AK-47 Assault Rifle
-RPK Light Machine Gun
-AA-52 General Purpose Machine Gun
-PKM General Purpose Machine Gun
-DShK Heavy Machine Gun
-KPV Heavy Machine Gun
-Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle
-RPG-7 Rocket Launcher
-B-10 Recoilless Rifle
-B-11 Recoilless Rifle
-M40 Recoilless Rifle
-Type 86 Anti-Personnel Grenade
-Type 59 Anti-Personnel Grenade (RGD-5)
-Mk.2 Anti-Personnel Grenade
-F-1 Anti-Personnel Grenade
-Type 72 Anti-Tank Grenade (RKG-3)
-Type 59 Anti-Personnel Mine (POMZ)
-Type 66 Anti-Personnel Mine (Claymore)
-Type 69 Anti-Personnel Mine
-PMD-6 Anti-Personnel Mine 
-MON-50 Anti-Personnel Mine (Claymore)
-MON-100 Anti-Personnel Mine
-MON-200 Anti-Personnel Mine
-OZM Anti-Personnel Mine
-POMZ Anti-Personnel Mine
-Type 72 Anti-Tank Mine
-Type 84 Anti-Tank Mine
-TM-46 Anti-Tank Mine
-TM-57 Anti-Tank Mine
-TM-62 Anti-Tank Mine
-TM-73 Anti-Tank Mine
-M19 Anti-Tank Mine
-M15 Anti-Tank Mine
-Valmara 59 Anti-Tank Mine
-Valmara 69 Anti-Tank Mine
-Type 63 60mm Mortar
-PM-41 82mm Mortar
-PM-43 120mm Mortar
-Brandt F1 120mm Mortar

Missiles & Bombs:
-AT-3 Anti-Tank
-SA-3 Goa Anti-Aircraft (3) (S-125)
-Mistral MANPAD Anti-Aircraft
-SA-7 MANPAD Anti-Aircraft (Strela-2)

Vehicles (12 Tanks):
-T-54/55 (12)
-Type 62 Light Tank (18)
-BTR-60 APC (24)
-BTR-152 APC (10)
-BRDM-2 AFV (55)
-Panhard AML AFV (20)
-RG-31 Nyala MRAP (8)
-ZSU-23 Gun SPAAV (15)
-VBL AFV
-UAZ-469 Jeep
-Toyota Tacoma Jeep
-Mercedes Benz NG Truck

Artillery (14 Towed, 0 SPG, 12 MLR, AAA, Total):
-D-30 Howitzer (8)
-M-46 Howitzer (6)
-BM-21 Grad Multiple Rocket Launcher (12)
-ZU-23-2 Anti-Aircraft (50)
-61-K Anti-Aircraft (6)
-S-60 Anti-Aircraft (6)

Helicopters (8):
-Mi-24 Attack Gunship (2)
-Eurocoter Ecureuil Scout (1)
-Mi-8 Transport (1)
-Z-9 Transport (4)

Aircraft (13 Combat):
-MiG-21ibs/UM Fighter (13)
-An-2 Light Transport (2)
-An-24 Light Transport (2)
-An-26 Light Transport (1)
-BT-67 Turbo Dakota Transport (3)
-L-29 Delfin Trainer/Light Attack (6)




You can see why they've been having some issues without the French....


----------



## Mider T (Jan 19, 2013)

Bad news guys...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21101092


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jan 19, 2013)

55 dead is the headline on HuffPo. Fuuuck. Hope the hostage takers burn in hell.  

RIP

Inb4 congress begins an inquiry into what Obama knew and when he knew it.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Jan 19, 2013)

Shinigami Perv said:


> 55 dead is the headline on HuffPo. Fuuuck. Hope the hostage takers burn in hell.
> 
> RIP
> 
> Inb4 congress begins an inquiry into what Obama knew and when he knew it.



About the embassy thing? 
funny, the newspaper had an editorial saying that second term tend to have a scandal attached to it. 
I guess the Embassy is Obama,s Achilles Heel.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 19, 2013)

The situation n Mali is very complicated. There are many different ethnics in this country. If I do a simplification, we have a black majority in the South and a Tuareg minority in the North (mixed of arabs and black people). 
The Tuaregs complained about the lack of involvement in the development of the North by the government so they become rebels and try to take the control by the force. The problem is one of the Tuareg leader team up with Al Qaeda for the conquest of the Mali. Al Qaeda took the control of Nothern Mali and leave aside the Tuaregs. 
And now the Tuaregs (except the one allied to AQ) try convince France to work with them to expel and want to negotiate with the Malian government.

The problem is that, even if AQ leave the country, the Malians are divided. The Southern Malian (the black majority) see the Tuareg as traitors. There are already violent actions against the Tuareg minority in the South. Amnesty International fear that the Malian army could be responsible of retaliation against the Tuareg minority. 
Is it possible for a national reconciliation ? The Tuareg want to form a country called Azawad in Northern Mali, but with a population of 800.000 persons in a land as large as Texas, can they even form a credible country ???


----------



## Alwaysmind (Jan 19, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Is it possible for a national reconciliation ? The Tuareg want to form a country called Azawad in Northern Mali, but with a population of 800.000 persons in a land as large as Texas, can they even form a credible country ???



Well there have been smaller sized countries. Also it depends who gives them the credibility status.  
So yes, anything is possible. 

On another note, if you look at the map of Mali, you can see how two countries can be formed.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 20, 2013)

In the city of Gao a Malian journalist was killed by Islamists because he was accused to work for the enemy. In revenge, the young Gao population lynched an Islamist leader to the death. 

The unity of the Malian population is threaten.


----------



## Alwaysmind (Jan 20, 2013)

This is going from bad to worst by the hour.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 20, 2013)

Look at them flee


----------



## Megaharrison (Jan 20, 2013)

As I've said, there's one inevitable result to this now that France is involved. The only question is how difficult the Islamists make it for themselves and the Mali people.


----------



## Mael (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm pretty pissed Algeria decided its pride was more important than international coordination and staged this clusterfuck of a raid.  God forbid SEALs and GIGN get involved where it matters most.

Oh and interestingly enough, apparently Canadian Muslims were in on the plot as well:


> *Algeria finds dead Canadian militants as siege toll rises*
> 
> (Reuters) - Algerian forces have found the bodies of two Canadian Islamist fighters after a bloody siege at a desert gas plant, a security source said on Monday, as the death toll reached at least 80 after troops stormed the complex to end the hostage crisis.
> 
> ...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/21/us-sahara-crisis-idUSBRE90F1JJ20130121

That being said, I fully support France's moves.  Radical Islam has to be stopped and it's clear a stark minority in Mali want austere Islam.  No Tuareg or sensible Malian supports these Islamist rebels.  But seriously, France NEEDS to stay coordinated with the local populace and Tuareg rebels and broker a deal.  Most effective part of a counterinsurgency is continuously maintaining a positive presence with the local population and not just stopping because the rebels retreat.  You have to eradicate them to the man.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 21, 2013)

> *Behaviour of death-masked French soldier 'unacceptable': army*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Megaharrison (Jan 21, 2013)

Holy crap how unreasonable. Let the soldier wear a fucking skull mask. He's risking his life in some foresaken shithole because his government told him to and they won't even give him that. Damn self-entitled hippies.


----------



## Mael (Jan 21, 2013)

Seems the douche that led the kidnapping was Canadian:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/21/us-sahara-crisis-raid-idUSBRE90H1DE20130121

Get Harper on the phone.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 21, 2013)

The French army worry about their image in Mali. I think they don't care about what he wear but don't like the fact the guy pose with this mask. 
The French army worry about it image but they should also worry about the image of the Malian army and what they doing to the Tuaregs as revenge.



> *Mali's army suspected of abuses and unlawful killings as war rages*
> 
> Amnesty International says it has evidence of civilian executions and indiscriminate shelling of nomadic Tuaregs' camp
> 
> ...


----------



## Megaharrison (Jan 21, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The French army worry about their image in Mali. I think they don't care about what he wear but don't like the fact the guy pose with this mask.
> The French army worry about it image but they should also worry about the image of the Malian army and what they doing to the Tuaregs as revenge.



Believe me with the kind of shit that people in Mali do to each other, a skull mask isn't going to mean very much. I've seen a bajillion US/British soldiers with that same mask on and twelve bajillion Israeli soldiers with that same mask on since CoD came out. The world didnt end.

Trying to micromanage wars over irrelevant bullshit like that is just unhelpful and hurts the soldiers morale.


----------



## vampiredude (Jan 21, 2013)

He looks like a videogame character.

Fucking badass.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 21, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Believe me with the kind of shit that people in Mali do to each other, a skull mask isn't going to mean very much. I've seen a bajillion US/British soldiers with that same mask on and twelve bajillion Israeli soldiers with that same mask on since CoD came out. The world didnt end.
> 
> Trying to micromanage wars over irrelevant bullshit like that is just unhelpful and hurts the soldiers morale.



I don't think, it hurt anybody. I just saying the army care very much about their image. We're in a former colony. Just being in a operation in a former colony is already controversial for most of people.

But like I said, what the French should worry is what the Malian army doing on arabs and tuaregs minorities.


----------



## Mider T (Jan 22, 2013)

^There's clearly a misunderstanding between you and Mega right now.

In other news, Algeria is passing blame and vowing revenge


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 23, 2013)




----------



## Mael (Jan 23, 2013)

*Russia says West to blame for arms used by Mali rebels*



> (Reuters) - Russia said on Wednesday the rebels fighting French and African troops in Mali are the same fighters the West armed in the revolt that ousted Muammar Gaddafi in Libya.
> 
> An Islamist alliance of al Qaeda's North African wing AQIM and home-grown Malian groups captured northern Mali last year, armed with weapons seized from Libya after the fall of Gaddafi.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/23/us-sahara-crisis-russia-idUSBRE90M12X20130123

Russians butthurt over another Western intervention.  He's right about the rebels, but really, so what?  Y'ain't got room to talk with Syria, homeboy.


This pleases me.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 23, 2013)

Russia critics to not look on the same side as the other. But this intervention also preserve their interests in the region.


----------



## Saishin (Jan 24, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Is it possible for a national reconciliation ? The Tuareg want to form a country called Azawad in Northern Mali, but with a population of 800.000 persons in a land as large as Texas, can they even form a credible country ???


I think they can't unfortunately these matters in Africa turns into bloodbath.
So at the end they'll use the Leclerc.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Jan 24, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Holy crap how unreasonable. Let the soldier wear a fucking skull mask. He's risking his life in some foresaken shithole because his government told him to and they won't even give him that. Damn self-entitled hippies.



besides that skull isn't for the mali people it's for the terrorists


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## Shinigami Perv (Jan 25, 2013)

Apparently the Islamists have been busy recruiting guys we trained to fight them. 



> *Mali Army, Riding U.S. Hopes, Is Proving No Match for Militants*
> 
> DIABALY, Mali ? At first, the battle went well.
> 
> ...




From my reading of this, the headaches will be political. The alternatives to Al Qaida are apparently unworthy of governing the country, ie they are just tribal human rights abusers (mass executions, anal sex, etc.) interested in furthering their own ethnic group's ambitions rather than governing the country.

Sounds like without the French there is no hope of this country fighting the Islamists, and the people are starting to like the humane treatment they are getting from the French, hence: 



> "Never leave", shell-shocked Mali residents tell France


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/24/mali-rebels-diabaly-idUSL6N0ATEZT20130124


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## Shinigami Perv (Jan 25, 2013)

> *
> French troops face complicated military landscape in Mali*
> 
> DIABALY, Mali ? When France entered the world?s newest war against terrorism, French officials boldly declared that the ragtag radical Islamists they planned to oust from northern Mali would scatter in the face of a modern fighting force.
> ...




Outlines some of the complications France is facing so far.


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## Mider T (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm glad French troops are on the ground.  The aftermath can provide a clear and cost-effective view of how the U.S. needs to govern a country after defeating terrorists.  We've had about 3 tries now to get this right and though we learn more effective ways to wage war each time, the result still boggles us.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 27, 2013)

Gao is liberated.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3I1jMBVA9Y[/YOUTUBE]

They are now in doors of Timbuktu.


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## Saishin (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm sorry Le Male  



> *Italian govt 'lacks backing' to support France in Mali*
> 
> Foreign minister says issue will be raised again after election
> 
> ...


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 28, 2013)

Lol at the french media saying that now we are in a "Guerre ?clair" (Blitzkrieg) because of the quick invasion of Gao and Timbuktu. There were so much bombing on these cities that there are basically not resistance on the ground.
So much evolutin in the goal of France in Mali. There were only supposed to stop the Jihadits and let the Africans do the job. In fact, the French with the Malian do the job and the African forces guard the cities liberated. It seems, the goal of France is to completely liberate Mali.
It's a failure for the African Union but also for the European project for common defense. The French were the most supportive of a European army but now, I think they'll try to be more independent toward the others. Maybe our military budget would rise.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 28, 2013)

Timbuktu is under control. The last "big" city to invade is Kidal.


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## Mael (Jan 28, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Timbuktu is under control. The last "big" city to invade is Kidal.



I hope French commanders read of the British success of Malaya back in the day or the American success in the Philippine War.


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## αce (Jan 28, 2013)

they torched a Timbuktu library
i say hang them all to be honest


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 28, 2013)

♠Ace♠ said:


> they torched a Timbuktu library
> i say hang them all to be honest



who did it?


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## Mael (Jan 28, 2013)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> who did it?



Islamist rebels.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Jan 28, 2013)

Mael said:


> Islamist rebels.



I say burn 'em then


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## Mael (Jan 29, 2013)

*330 UK military personnel sent to West Africa*



> The UK is to deploy about 330 military personnel to Mali and West Africa to support French forces, No 10 has said.
> 
> This includes as many as 40 military advisers who will train soldiers in Mali, and 200 British soldiers to be sent to neighbouring African countries, also to help train the Malian army.
> 
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21240676


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 29, 2013)

and from what I read in the comments on British newspapers websites, people there don't like the idea to see their soldiers involved in Mali, even if it's for training English speaking African soldiers in a safe area of Mali.


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## Mider T (Jan 30, 2013)

Training the Malians is a waste of time.   Place is a shithole and that strategy has been tried in shitholes before.  The thing to do is try new ways: I suggest liberating the country then leaving the Malians to their own devices, if this happens again just reliberate the exact same way and then aim for another post-war solution.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Jan 30, 2013)

90% of books from Timbuktu library was saved. The books were hidden before the Islamists invaded the city.

Kidal is under control however, in my opinion, the army made a mistake with the lack of control in Timbuktu. Arab shops were looted.

I like this picture. The guy trolling the Jihadists who banned smoking.


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## First Tsurugi (Jan 30, 2013)

Where are these Islamists fleeing to since most of the cities have been liberated now?

Are they hiding in the countryside or have they left the country entirely?


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## Mael (Feb 2, 2013)

*Malians say "Thank you, France!" as Hollande visits*



> (Reuters) - Cheering, grateful Malians mobbed French President Francois Hollande on Saturday as he visited French troops fighting Islamist jihadist rebels, and he pledged France would finish the job of restoring government control in the Sahel state.
> 
> In a one-day trip to Mali accompanied by his ministers for defense, foreign affairs and development, Hollande was hailed as a liberator in the ancient northern city of Timbuktu, which French and Malian forces retook from the rebels six days ago.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/02/us-mali-rebels-hollande-idUSBRE91104320130202

Well I guess there's some good news?


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## Shinigami Perv (Feb 2, 2013)

This should really help Hollande at home. France is being smart about how they fought this war. They included the local troops, and PR exercises like this are helpful. They worked to peel off the support from the radical militants. France was very mindful of avoiding civilian casualties, which alienate local populaces. And most importantly they have an end game, an African military force so that they can leave in a timely manner. So far, you couldn't have drawn it up any better considering the weakness of the Malian military. 

Hopefully the Islamists leave and don't start an insurgency once the country is under control.

Well done, France.  Maybe people will stop making jokes about the French military when they see how France used brains over brawn to achieve a _strategic_ victory.


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## Sarry (Feb 2, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> *90% of books from Timbuktu library was saved. The books were hidden before the Islamists invaded the city.*
> 
> Kidal is under control however, in my opinion, the army made a mistake with the lack of control in Timbuktu. Arab shops were looted.
> 
> I like this picture. The guy trolling the Jihadists who banned smoking.


That's good to hear. Hopefully, they burn these backward jihadists...


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 2, 2013)

Shinigami Perv said:


> This should really help Hollande at home. France is being smart about how they fought this war. They included the local troops, and PR exercises like this are helpful. They worked to peel off the support from the radical militants. France was very mindful of avoiding civilian casualties, which alienate local populaces. And most importantly they have an end game, an African military force so that they can leave in a timely manner. So far, you couldn't have drawn it up any better considering the weakness of the Malian military.
> 
> Hopefully the Islamists leave and don't start an insurgency once the country is under control.
> 
> Well done, France.  Maybe people will stop making jokes about the French military when they see how France used brains over brawn to achieve a _strategic_ victory.



There were so many elements that helped compared to an intervention in a country like Afghanistan. 

-The were a really clash of cultures between the Malian majority that practice what they call a "liberal Islam" and the one of Al Qaeda. It was just incompatible.
-Mali is a former french colony, we share a common culture via languages and others things. 
-There are also this strange colonial nostalgia in few people of Mali. Rarity told me about this feeling during the Arab spring in Arab former French colonies. I didn't realized this feeling really existed. 
-We arrived at a time the situation was very critical for the Capital Bamako, we wouldn't that much supported if we came earlier.
-There is also the Malian countryside, easier to conquest compared to Afghanistan. The international support also helped.

But the main problem now is the division within the malian population. The Tuaregs are seen as the traitors. For the invasion of Kidal (North Mali) the French army went there without the Malian army to avoids massacres. The Malian army is humiliated by the defeats against the rebels and they want their revenge.


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## Mael (Feb 2, 2013)

I think it might be another good opportunity for Hollande to try to broker a deal with Mali and the Tuaregs.  Sure France might have to enforce for a short while but it could further unite Mali against extremist Islam.


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## Saufsoldat (Feb 3, 2013)

Soooo, are conspiracy nuts already putting a spin on this?


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## Megaharrison (Feb 3, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> Soooo, are conspiracy nuts already putting a spin on this?



Blah blah oil and jews is what I've been seeing from the typical far-leftist suspects mainly.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 3, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> Soooo, are conspiracy nuts already putting a spin on this?



According to them, we'll see a war each year. Libya in 2012, Mali in 2013 and the next countries are Niger and Algeria. The reasons are the resources of these countries. There is a desire of recolonization of Africa by the west to counter China (coming from a Belgian conspirationist).

I also read in an Middle east news website that the US plan was to let France in trouble in Africa to diminish french influence on the continent and improve US influence there.


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## Saishin (Feb 3, 2013)

Shinigami Perv said:


> This should really help Hollande at home. France is being smart about how they fought this war. They included the local troops, and PR exercises like this are helpful. They worked to peel off the support from the radical militants. France was very mindful of avoiding civilian casualties, which alienate local populaces. And most importantly they have an end game, an African military force so that they can leave in a timely manner. So far, you couldn't have drawn it up any better considering the weakness of the Malian military.
> 
> Hopefully the Islamists leave and don't start an insurgency once the country is under control.
> 
> Well done, France.  *Maybe people will stop making jokes about the French military* when they see how France used brains over brawn to achieve a _strategic_ victory.


Are there people making jokes? I think the french military is one of the best a and well equipped in the world


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## makeoutparadise (Feb 3, 2013)

Saishin said:


> Are there people making jokes? I think the french military is one of the best a and well equipped in the world



France has one of the best military records by country, and they have taken part in more wars than any other country in the world. Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, France has won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10.


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## Mael (Feb 3, 2013)

Saufsoldat said:


> Soooo, are conspiracy nuts already putting a spin on this?



I'm shocked Chavez and tumblr haven't joined forces to go anti-white male privilege on this.


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## Blue (Feb 3, 2013)

makeoutparadise said:


> France has one of the best military records by country, and they have taken part in more wars than any other country in the world. Out of 168 battles fought since 387 BC, France has won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10.



Paris has fallen 4 times to conquering armies. Berlin has fallen once. Washington, once. Anglo-Saxon London, never.

Clearly they weren't winning the correct battles.


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## Megaharrison (Feb 3, 2013)

Blue said:


> Paris has fallen 4 times to conquering armies. Berlin has fallen once. Washington, once. Anglo-Saxon London, never.
> 
> Clearly they weren't winning the correct battles.



Napoleon took Berlin as well, 21 days into his invasion of Prussia even. Which for 1800s standards is quite impressive. He'll for today's standards that's fucking impressive.


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## Blue (Feb 3, 2013)

Bill the Troll said:


> Napoleon took Berlin as well, 21 days into his invasion of Prussia even. Which for 1800s standards is quite impressive. He'll for today's standards that's fucking impressive.



Here's where I wikipedia some pedantic aspect of your statement to call into question and correct you over so I can look good and cover my butthurt at having been incorrect.

But I'm a busy man so use your imagination.


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## Oldy (Feb 3, 2013)

Anglo-Saxon London was also periodically sacked by the Viking, fell to the Dane a couple of times and then to the Norman and French troops led by William II. All of which have really nothing to do with Mali.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 3, 2013)

[dailymotion]xx8bic_france-s-hollande-visits-library-housing-torched-manuscripts-in-timbuktu_news?search_algo=2#.UQ73a0d0hJc[/dailymotion]

[dailymotion]xx8yi0_hollande-says-mali-war-is-not-over_news?search_algo=2#.UQ76Okd0hJc[/dailymotion]


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## Alwaysmind (Feb 4, 2013)

I totally missed a week and a half of Franco-Malian war news. I heard French captured the three biggest cities (or something like that). 
Are they still fighting the "rebels" or have they retreated far north?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 4, 2013)

Alwaysmind said:


> I totally missed a week and a half of Franco-Malian war news. I heard French captured the three biggest cities (or something like that).
> Are they still fighting the "rebels" or have they retreated far north?



The major malian cities are now free. The AQ rebels are hidden in the mountains in the North of Mali. The french army bomb the area. 
In 2010, 6 french workers were taken as hostage by AQ in Niger. These hostages could be right now in the Malian mountains.
A AFISMA general revealed to the media that an operation to rescue the hostages is prepared between the French and African forces (a revelation that annoys the French....).


----------



## makeoutparadise (Feb 4, 2013)

Blue said:


> Paris has fallen 4 times to conquering armies. Berlin has fallen once. Washington, once. Anglo-Saxon London, never.
> 
> Clearly they weren't winning the correct battles.



I disagree, if your capital falls four times  But at the end of the day you take it back and still have your culture and your sovereignty as a nation  each time, you're winning the right battles.

As you said the White House  was burned down  and yet here America stands


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 6, 2013)

There are now 4000 french soldier in Mali. They'll slowly start to leave the country in March.


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## makeoutparadise (Feb 6, 2013)

Is the situation getting better??


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 7, 2013)

No, the situation change. It seems the Mujao launch attacks in the region of Gao. I wonder if these attacks will change the plan for a withdraw.


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## Mael (Feb 7, 2013)

I personally think the French need to stay longer in order to establish a more secure presence in Mali.  Leaving in March is foolhardy.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 7, 2013)

I read a special edition magazine about the French empire. I can understand that people can see similarities with French colonialism. It's remind the first time French enter in Timbuktu in 1894. The way the french work with the African armies remind the "Senegalese Tirailleurs".
Now we are a key element in all this mess because the black Malian want us to protect them against the Jihadists and the Tuaregs want us to keep them safe from the black Malians. And with AQ/Mujao in the middle of this shit, we're like the American cavalry fighting against the native americans


----------



## Xion (Feb 7, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> *According to them, we'll see a war each year. Libya in 2012, Mali in 2013 and the next countries are Niger and Algeria. The reasons are the resources of these countries. There is a desire of recolonization of Africa by the west to counter China (coming from a Belgian conspirationist).*
> 
> I also read in an Middle east news website that the US plan was to let France in trouble in Africa to diminish french influence on the continent and improve US influence there.



Yeah, but nobody hears about every other damn war in Africa like the DRC, CAR, the fact that France intervened-esque in Cote d'Ivoire a year ago, Sudan/South Sudan conflicts over the Abyei region, etc.

The only things that daft conspiracy theorists use as evidence are the items that happen to make it to page 1 of the MSM outlets that they might catch a glimpse of before making their preposterous ideas public.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2013)

The french forces are in Tessalit near the Algerian borders.

I didn't realize how big Mali is. In fact it's twice the size of a state like Texas. Mali is under populated, especially in the Northern Mali. There are only 15 million for this large territory.


----------



## Mael (Feb 8, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> The french forces are in Tessalit near the Algerian borders.
> 
> I didn't realize how big Mali is. In fact it's twice the size of a state like Texas. Mali is under populated, especially in the Northern Mali. There are only 15 million for this large territory.



And now they're bringing out the suicide bombers.  Warn France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21381379


> *Mali conflict: 'First suicide bombing' in Gao*
> 
> A suicide bomber has blown himself up in the northern Mali town of Gao - the country's first such case, sources say.
> 
> ...


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2013)

Yes, this is why we can't leave yet. Like Hollande said, these terrorists must be destroyed. We must accept the financial cost of this war. This opex is supported by the Malians and also by 3/4 of the French. 
Unfortunately we lack of drones. This operation Serval will have an impact of the next military budget. I believe we'll invest in new equipment. The lack of strong support from Europe strengthen the need to be able to go on war by ourselves.
Our army should be less designed to work with NATO and more independent.


----------



## Mael (Feb 8, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Yes, this is why we can't leave yet. Like Hollande said, these terrorists must be destroyed. We must accept the financial cost of this war. This opex is supported by the Malians and also by 3/4 of the French.
> Unfortunately we lack of drones. This operation Serval will have an impact of the next military budget. I believe we'll invest in new equipment. The lack of strong support from Europe strengthen the need to be able to go on war by ourselves.
> Our army should be less designed to work with NATO and more independent.



That's not a bad notion at all, the last part, however I think you'd benefit greatly from US drone assistance.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 8, 2013)

Mael said:


> That's not a bad notion at all, the last part, however I think you'd benefit greatly from US drone assistance.



I would be more severe and say we are very dependent from US drone assistance. 
Something must change, if Europe doesn't want to evolve, we mustn't be dragged with them. 
Let's see what we can do with Mali. I hope for a plan to develop the area.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 14, 2013)

I really start to wonder if Mali should be administrated by France. We're forced to stay if we don't want to see a bloodbath. By the Islamogangsters, or by the Malian army against the Touareg minorities. We're like a mediator between the Northern and Southern Malian. But there are so much to do there, even if the situation is stabilized, build roads, schools, hospitals etc will cost a lot just like it cost a lot to develop Algeria.


----------



## Mael (Feb 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> I really start to wonder if Mali should be administrated by France. We're forced to stay if we don't want to see a bloodbath. By the Islamogangsters, or by the Malian army against the Touareg minorities. We're like a mediator between the Northern and Southern Malian. But there are so much to do there, even if the situation is stabilized, build roads, schools, hospitals etc will cost a lot just like it cost a lot to develop Algeria.



I wouldn't say administrated, because then the "colonialism" whiners would come out of the woodwork.  What France should do is establish direct diplomatic and advisory committees and framework with the Malians, broker a truce/treaty with the Tuareg rebels to acknowledge their presence/rights, and oversee the general unity of Mali to push out the Islamist influence. 

This is a golden opportunity for France...and they can't let sentiments of early withdrawal cloud their judgments.


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 14, 2013)

Mael said:


> I wouldn't say administrated, because then the "colonialism" whiners would come out of the woodwork.  What France should do is establish direct diplomatic and advisory committees and framework with the Malians, broker a truce/treaty with the Tuareg rebels to acknowledge their presence/rights, and oversee the general unity of Mali to push out the Islamist influence.
> 
> This is a golden opportunity for France...and they can't let sentiments of early withdrawal cloud their judgments.



Well, I think nobody here really believe we will withdraw now. I said administrated because there is not a Malian state actually. There is no organization. The Malian army is not a professional army. They even fight each others and their own population don't trust them.
Now, I feel less affected by the French colonial past because I'm half African with half of my family coming from a former French colony (Cameroon).


----------



## baconbits (Feb 14, 2013)

Le M?le Dominant said:


> Well, I think nobody here really believe we will withdraw now. I said administrated because there is not a Malian state actually. There is no organization. The Malian army is not a professional army. They even fight each others and their own population don't trust them.
> 
> Now, I feel less affected by the French colonial past because I'm half African with half of my family coming from a former French colony (Cameroon).



Interesting.  Do you think that the French have a strong enough resolve to stay if there is a spike in the number of French deaths?


----------



## Blue (Feb 14, 2013)

baconbits said:


> Interesting.  Do you think that the French have a strong enough resolve to stay if there is a spike in the number of French deaths?





(the marine is an african)


----------



## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 14, 2013)

baconbits said:


> Interesting.  Do you think that the French have a strong enough resolve to stay if there is a spike in the number of French deaths?



I don't know. Mali is different compared to Afghanistan. We have a common past with Mali because it was a colony and the fact they are francophone help feel more affected to their fight against these Islamogangsters. Afghanistan is far from us, we had no link with this country and the war is under the command of the US. There is also the fact near the end of our presence in Afghanistan, nobody knew what was the goals of our presence there.
In Mali, we have the huge support from the population and they even help us against our common enemy.



Blue said:


> (the marine is an african)



I don't understand what do you mean.


----------



## Blue (Feb 14, 2013)

Well it means what he says, once you start a war, there's no going back, you have to be prepared to go all the way.

But you have to have played Starcraft to appreciate it, I suppose.


----------



## Mael (Feb 17, 2013)

*French, Malian troops secure rebel strongpoint near Gao*



> (Reuters) - French and Malian troops secured the north Mali town of Bourem on Sunday, tightening their control over areas where Islamist insurgents have been launching guerrilla attacks to harass the French-led military operation.
> 
> "Bourem is a bastion of Islamists," said a military official from an African military contingent called AFISMA.
> 
> ...



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/17/us-mali-rebels-bourem-idUSBRE91G0CO20130217

The possibility of the messy COIN exists, yes, but so far the Malians are vastly more pro-French than pro-Islamist, so it's gonna be one damn tough hill to climb for the Islamists being so unpopular.


----------



## neodragzero (Feb 17, 2013)

Blue said:


> Well it means what he says, once you start a war, there's no going back, you have to be prepared to go all the way.
> 
> But you have to have played Starcraft to appreciate it, I suppose.



...and forget that the words are spoken by someone who just basically abandoned how many marine forces and a losing colony?


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## Mael (Feb 17, 2013)

neodragzero said:


> ...and forget that the words are spoken by someone who just basically abandoned how many marine forces and a losing colony?



General Edmund Duke or is it Arcturus Mengsk this time?


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## Elim Rawne (Feb 17, 2013)

Mael said:


> General Edmund Duke or is it Arcturus Mengsk this time?



Gerard DuGalle. The guy who got swindled by Duran, murdered his best friend because of Duran and ended up losing his entire force.
Even in the world of Starcraft, that guy was a twat.


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## Mael (Feb 17, 2013)

Elim Rawne said:


> Gerard DuGalle. The guy who got swindled by Duran, murdered his best friend because of Duran and ended up losing his entire force.
> Even in the world of Starcraft, that guy was a twat.



Neo mentioned a colony...I thought Mar Sara.

But yeah fuck that French dude.


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## Mider T (Feb 17, 2013)

If France is truly willing to stay, they must get this right.  They've been thrust upon the world's stage of how to rebuild country while winning hearts and minds of it's citizens in a post-civil war land.  Luckily for them, Mali is no Iraq or Afghanistan.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 18, 2013)

The Malian army start to be an embarrassment for us. I suppose the French want to do the job with them to show to the Malian there are cooperation and not unilateralist actions but.....in the North, Malian do war crimes against the "white skins" (Touaregs). They are not professional, they were beaten by the Touaregs (trained by the US) and now that they are accompanied by the French army, they do dirty things. We must replace the Malian army by other Africans army like the Chadian army.


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## Mael (Feb 18, 2013)

> Malian do war crimes against the "white skins" (Touaregs).





Wat.


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## Sunuvmann (Feb 18, 2013)

I guess its all relative? I mean they aren't as dark as most subsaharan africans... Also like the Tutsis of Rwanada, they have facial structure more similar to North Africans and Europeans than SS-Africans so that may be the origin of the name?


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## Mael (Feb 18, 2013)

Yeah I figured as much...I guess yeah as a white American I sorta chuckled at the notion.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 18, 2013)

Mael said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are different kind of touaregs and from what I heard from the history of these people in Mali, those with dark skins linked with the tuaregs. They were a used by the Tuaregs to loot the population of the south. The tuaregs didn't want to go in the south by themselves, they feared an environment they don't know. 







The "white skins" called by the black malian are the tuaregs and the arabs.


BTW, it's interesting to se that the touaregs have their own writing.


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## Sunuvmann (Feb 18, 2013)

Makes sense.

Those are the lightest people they saw until what, the 17-1800s?


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Feb 28, 2013)

> *Abdelhamid Abu Zeid, Al Qaeda Commander, Reportedly Killed In Mali *
> 
> Reuters  |   Posted: 02/28/2013 10:20 am EST  |  Updated: 02/28/2013 11:53 am EST
> 
> ...


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## Sunuvmann (Feb 28, 2013)

I was hoping some french person made a youtube parody of AMERICA! FUCK YEAH! with FRANCE! FUCK YEAH!

So I could post that in reaction.

But alas, youtube disappoints. 

...though they could have done one in French so I'd have no idea what to search for with that...


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Mar 1, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAdmnLyjja8[/YOUTUBE]


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## Griever (Mar 1, 2013)

Good to see the French are kicking some ass over there.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Mar 3, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVqbgyocg7g[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMl-O_aP43s[/YOUTUBE]


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Mar 8, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w8X8VpGRoA[/YOUTUBE]

also....


good to see the Malian erase AQ's marks

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dobcN-PGUmk[/YOUTUBE]


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