# Ace vs Zoro



## Quuon (Aug 13, 2015)

Location: Marineford
Distance: 50 meters
Mindset: Bloodlusted

Who wins?


----------



## Kai (Aug 13, 2015)

Ace wins.

Zoro has nothing that can stop Entei.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 13, 2015)

Zoro karate chops Ace in the neck like pre-skip BB did 

Pre-skip Ace is a fodder once you can negate his DF-immunity

If Ace lived to post skip and was as strong as DF Sabo, then it would be a toss up


----------



## ShadoLord (Aug 13, 2015)

Ace is probably stronger than Current Zoro; high-diff


----------



## NO (Aug 13, 2015)

Anybody who believes Ace wins this is delusional. Ace has inferior haki feats, inferior speed feats, inferior offensive feats, and inferior defensive feats. Ace is completely inferior to Zoro.

Going by only the feats Zoro has shown so far (a 50-60% serious Zoro), this is a high-diff match for him. But 100% post-TS Zoro should mid-diff.


----------



## Visa (Aug 13, 2015)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Zoro karate chops Ace in the neck like pre-skip BB did
> 
> Pre-skip Ace is a fodder once you can negate his DF-immunity
> 
> If Ace lived to post skip and was as strong as DF Sabo, then it would be a toss up



You make it sound as if post-timeskip Zoro could solo Yami-Blackbeard no-diff  

Ace still takes it. It was stated by Van Auger that even when Ace lost his DF-immunity he was a "beast" at fighting. Anything post-timeskip Sabo has shown using with the Mera Mera no Mi, Ace can do. He's higher than Vista and Jozu in rank for a fucking reason; probably even has Armament Haki.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 13, 2015)




----------



## Lord Stark (Aug 13, 2015)

Hmmm maybe Ace for now, but once Zoro learns to cut fire in Wano, Ace is...cooked


----------



## Visa (Aug 13, 2015)

Not sure if I should be amused or appalled that you just compared Ace to Monet...


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 13, 2015)

Overconfident Logias die quickly in the new world


----------



## NO (Aug 13, 2015)

Lord Stark said:


> Hmmm maybe Ace for now, but once Zoro learns to cut fire in Wano, Ace is...cooked



Exactly which moves in Zoro's arsenal aren't going to cut fire?


----------



## Venom (Aug 13, 2015)

Kai said:


> Ace wins.
> 
> Zoro has nothing that can stop Entei.



kek




zoro high diffs IMO


----------



## trance (Aug 13, 2015)

Zoro very high difficulty.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm of the opinion that Luffy finally surpassed Ace with G4. Granted, I also think Zoro is stronger than Luffy without G4, so Ace/Zoro should be on comparable levels. 

Ace is definitely not weak without his fruit. It was commented that he's still quite powerful without it and even faced Yami Teach for some unknown amount of time before losing.

I'd still give Ace the advantage, but that doesn't go without very high-extreme difficulty. 
Ace and Zoro are some of the strongest characters below top tier, in my opinion.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 14, 2015)

Zoro high-diffs. 

Take away Ace's fruit and you have somebody who is Zoro beats in most if not all categories and could potentially be taken down in one attack. I don't think Ace's fruit makes up for that.


----------



## Amol (Aug 14, 2015)

Ace currently has better feats .
He wins with very High diff.


----------



## Quipchaque (Aug 14, 2015)

Zoro high-diff.

Ace shouldn?t be much stronger than current Jimbei who has been compared to Sanji. So he?s roughly on Vergo/Pica level (prob a bit stronger) and since these guys can give Zoro an upper end of mid-diff fight, Ace could give him a high-diff one but nothing more.


----------



## Pirao (Aug 14, 2015)

Well, not so easy, but Zoro wins this IMO. Would be close though.


----------



## tanman (Aug 14, 2015)

Ace extreme diff or Zoro extreme diff.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

Zoro beat Pica. That's it. And now he's supposed to be stronger than Ace?


----------



## Extravlad (Aug 14, 2015)

> Zoro beat Pica. That's it. And now he's supposed to be stronger than Ace?


Zoro can stomps Pica, every opponent he has faced so far, and was praised by Fujitora for his strength.

Zoro > Ace > G2/G3 Luffy


----------



## Pirao (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> Zoro beat Pica. That's it. And now he's supposed to be stronger than Ace?



And Ace beat... who exactly?


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

Pirao said:


> And Ace beat... who exactly?



Tied with jinbe even before he joined the WB pirates?


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Zoro can stomps Pica, every opponent he has faced so far, and was praised by Fujitora for his strength.
> 
> Zoro > Ace > G2/G3 Luffy



It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that's the most impressive thing he's done and it's less impressive than what Law did to Trebol.

What has Zoro done that puts him above Ace?



Pirao said:


> And Ace beat... who exactly?



Look at the post below yours. Not only that but he's fought against someone we know to be a bonified near top tier (who really shouldn't have been inferior to Doflamingo pre-skip) in Teach. His h2h fighting skills were complimented by one of Teach's men so there was absolutely no bias, and fighting on that level alone is better portrayal than Zoro has ever got.

Zoro went from being roughly 2x weaker than Luffy pre-skip (G2) to stronger than Ace post-skip? You'll need to convince me.


----------



## Pirao (Aug 14, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Tied with jinbe even before he joined the WB pirates?



Yes, I was aware of that when I made my post, thank you.



God Movement said:


> Look at the post below yours. Not only that but he's fought against someone we know to be a bonified near top tier (who really shouldn't have been inferior to Doflamingo pre-skip) in Teach. His h2h fighting skills were complimented by one of Teach's men so there was absolutely no bias, and fighting on that level alone is better portrayal than Zoro has ever got.



Yami Teach a top tier  Getting complimented by some scrubs (which is what BB crew pre TS were) is impressive? I guess you're easily impressed... depending on the character of course.



> *Zoro went from being roughly 2x weaker than Luffy pre-skip* (G2) to stronger than Ace post-skip? You'll need to convince me.



Damn, one gem after the other. First Yami BB was a top tier and now Zoro was 2x weaker than Luffy pre-skip  I don't need to convince you of anything, I could care less what someone with such whack opinions thinks. Just making sure BS doesn't go unchecked.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

Pirao said:


> Yes, I was aware of that when I made my post, thank you.



Then why did you mention me saying who has ace beaten

when you know that equalling Jinbe before joining WB crew is more impressive than beating Pica


----------



## Pirao (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> Then why did you mention me saying who has ace beaten
> 
> *when you know that equalling Jinbe before joining WB crew is more impressive than beating Pica*



Obviously because Ace must have some impressive victories under his belt when you're pretending he's above Zoro using the "who has he beaten" card as an excuse.

And not really.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> Zoro went from being roughly 2x weaker than Luffy pre-skip (G2) to stronger than Ace post-skip? You'll need to convince me.



I would disagree with the 2 times weaker thing. Luffy extreme diffed Lucci, and Zoro high diffed Kaku and was still able to move around. Zoro was maybe 70% ish?

Also, while i wouldn't call Yami teach a top tier, he was hyped up by Shanks himself as giving him his iconic scar (before the devil fruit) and told whitebeard to be careful. 

In many ways Teach is similar to Luffy and this extends to their fighing style in that he can get punked by weaker opponents because of his careless nature in fighting, which can make him appear weaker and have people give him less credit.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

"roughly 2x"

we can't peg exact numbers. all we know is lucci's base douriki is 2x higher than kaku's and he has a carnivorous zoan which is > kaku's.

either way g2 luffy would have shat on zoro and no-one has provided evidence that zoro has closed the gap. literally all they can say is "asura" and pre-skip it wasn't even well rounded from what we saw


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> I would disagree with the 2 times weaker thing. Luffy extreme diffed Lucci, and Zoro high diffed Kaku and was still able to move around. Zoro was maybe 70% ish?
> 
> Also, while i wouldn't call Yami teach a top tier, he was hyped up by Shanks himself as giving him his iconic scar (before the devil fruit) and told whitebeard to be careful.
> 
> In many ways Teach is similar to Luffy and this extends to their fighing style in that he can get punked by weaker opponents because of his careless nature in fighting, which can make him appear weaker and have people give him less credit.



Oh and BB also took over whitebeard's territories without using the gura devil fruit according to jinbei


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

wrong translation.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> "roughly 2x"
> 
> we can't peg exact numbers. all we know is lucci's base douriki is 2x higher than kaku's and he has a carnivorous zoan which is > kaku's.
> 
> either way g2 luffy would have shat on zoro and no-one has provided evidence that zoro has closed the gap. literally all they can say is "asura" and pre-skip it wasn't even well rounded from what we saw



Personal opinion? Recent portrayal of Luffy and zoro in the timeskip and their performance against comparable or even the same enemies shows that the gap has been reduced a lot (not counting G4 or Ashura)


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> wrong translation.



welp.

What's the right one?


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> welp.
> 
> What's the right one?



Cnet is trustworthy yea?



> Jimbei: You must understand, the man was a member of the Whitebeard Pirates for many years. / He was intimately familiar with the old man's territories. // After the old man's death, he was able to conquer those regions almost immediately. /* A feat he accomplished using none other than the Gura Gura powers that he stole from the old man himself.*



lmao I was so hilariously wrong about that


----------



## NO (Aug 14, 2015)

Time to clean up this trash.


Amol said:


> Ace currently has better feats .
> He wins with very High diff.


Canonically incorrect. See his wiki page for Ace's feats or read the manga like everyone else.


God Movement said:


> Zoro beat Pica. That's it. And now he's supposed to be stronger than Ace?


Do you have selective reading comprehension? The fact that Zoro beat Pica without trying puts him on a much higher level by inference and portrayal.



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Tied with jinbe even before he joined the WB pirates?


What are some impressive things that Jinbe has done? Absolutely nothing.


God Movement said:


> It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that's the most impressive thing he's done and it's less impressive than what Law did to Trebol.
> 
> What has Zoro done that puts him above Ace?
> 
> ...


Zoro fought Fujitora and was able to push him back with an air slash using his 1-sword style - Zoro wasn't even serious. All of Zoro's feats are superior to Ace's. You're gonna need to convince us why he isn't stronger than Ace. 



God Movement said:


> Then why did you mention me saying who has ace beaten
> 
> when you know that equalling Jinbe before joining WB crew is more impressive than beating Pica


Congratulations, a tie with a version of Jinbe (whose strength at the time is completely unmeasurable) means nothing. Pick a different argument.


----------



## Extravlad (Aug 14, 2015)

I can't wait to see Amol and God Movement's reactions when Zoro shows us insane feats in the following arc 

He has a godly portrayal, Oda makes him looks invincible every time he fights and yet people still doubt his strength 

If there's one character you shouldn't underestimate it's Zoro, Oda has proven us over and over how he loves to make him looks strong.


----------



## Dunno (Aug 14, 2015)

tanman said:


> Hahaha
> G4 Luffy stomps.
> Pre-G4 Luffy extreme diffs.
> Pre-skip Luffy gets stomped.


 ^ From "Ace Vs. Luffy - to the god damn death"



tanman said:


> Ace extreme diff or Zoro extreme diff.



How does this even work? Does Luffy stomp Zoro as well? People say that Zoro is wanked, but this shit is extreme. Gohara's statements seem reasonable in comparison.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> Do you have selective reading comprehension? The fact that Zoro beat Pica without trying puts him on a much higher level by inference and portrayal.



No it doesn't. Because Law was able to do the same, to a similar level opponent whilst on his death bed. So clearly they aren't that impressive as foes. Can you picture Law doing the same to Jinbe? Especially when Jinbe has great portrayal in comparison to both Sanji and Luffy?



> Zoro fought Fujitora and was able to push him back with an air slash using his 1-sword style - Zoro wasn't even serious. All of Zoro's feats are superior to Ace's. You're gonna need to convince us why he isn't stronger than Ace.



Zoro now went from being 2x weaker than Luffy pre-skip to being on par with the Admirals. Right? It's unnecessary for you to continue.

It's clear Fuji would paste him. Why even mention it?



Extravlad said:


> I can't wait to see Amol and God Movement's reactions when Zoro shows us insane feats in the following arc
> 
> He has a godly portrayal, Oda makes him looks invincible every time he fights and yet people still doubt his strength
> 
> If there's one character you shouldn't underestimate it's Zoro, Oda has proven us over and over how he loves to make him looks strong.



Zoro is strong. He just isn't as strong as Ace. Or Luffy. Or Law.

I believe that will be made clear soon enough.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> What are some impressive things that Jinbe has done? Absolutely nothing.



He doesn't have many feats, however the few he does are quite impressive. Stopping a bloodlusted akainu's magma punch was one and he held him there for a while before Marco and VIsta intervened. And he managed to live after being magma fisted by Akainu. Blocked Luffy's jet stamp and called him weak. 




> Zoro fought Fujitora and was able to push him back with an air slash using his 1-sword style - Zoro wasn't even serious. All of Zoro's feats are superior to Ace's. You're gonna need to convince us why he isn't stronger than Ace.



Fuji wasn't quite serious either, against Zoro and Sabo. And Zoro wasn't serious? Ha!

Ace stalemated a named solid ice attack (pheasant beak) from aokiji  with a smirk on his face. 
Inb4 DF weakness so it doesn't count. No, that's silly, flamethrowers can be countered by using an iceblower or throwing a solid ice sculpture because fire doesn't have the same weight.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 14, 2015)

Zoro did not fight Fuji. Fuji sent Zoro right through the ground without even trying. It was clear on Zoro's face that he did not want any of Fuji.

Sabo fought Fuji. They contended with each for an extended period of time and caused destruction all over Dressrosa.


----------



## NO (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> No it doesn't. Because Law was able to do the same, to a similar level opponent whilst on his death bed. So clearly they aren't that impressive as foes. Can you picture Law doing the same to Jinbe? Especially when Jinbe has great portrayal in comparison to both Sanji and Luffy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why even mention it? Because everyone who isn't a fan of Zoro keeps downplaying it. It was Zoro, using 1 sword, to send an air slash, that pushed Fujitora back. I've seen you bring up small insignificant Marineford feats in the past so let's not pretend this isn't significant when Zoro's portrayal is through the roof and hasn't taken any of his post-TS fights 100% seriously. That kind of portrayal shouldn't be overlooked. 



IchijiNijiSanji said:


> He doesn't have many feats, however the few he does are quite impressive. Stopping a bloodlusted akainu's magma punch was one and he held him there for a while before Marco and VIsta intervened. And he managed to live after being magma fisted by Akainu. Blocked Luffy's jet stamp and called him weak.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not gonna talk about whether Zoro could slice through Pheasant Beak or block a Magma Fist. I don't have the direct proof to say he could do it, but I sure as hell am not convinced he couldn't do it when he's slicing up giant stone golems and is a CoA specialist (as confirmed by Oda). I give the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## NO (Aug 14, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Zoro did not fight Fuji. Fuji sent Zoro right through the ground without even trying. It was clear on Zoro's face that he did not want any of Fuji.
> 
> Sabo fought Fuji. They contended with each for an extended period of time and caused destruction all over Dressrosa.



1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.


And they also clashed with each other later again, but let's pretend that didn't happen. ?\_(ツ)_/?


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that's the most impressive thing he's done and it's less impressive than what Law did to Trebol.
> 
> What has Zoro done that puts him above Ace?
> 
> ...


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

GUISE! GUISE LOOK!

LUFFY THREW AOKIJI INTO THE AIR PRESKIP PRE GEARS WITH A SIMPLE KICK


----------



## Imagine (Aug 14, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> 1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
> 1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
> 1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
> 1 sword air-slash pushed Fujitora back.
> ...



Saying Zoro fought Fujitora is like saying Doflamingo fought Aokiji. 

Yeah Zoro managed to stop falling and get some ground but is that a fight? Does that mean Zoro is admiral level or something? Zoro *clearly* didn't want a battle with this guy. Just read his dialogue. Don't lie to yourself. 

Also post scans of them clashing post their first encounter.


----------



## IchijiNijiSanji (Aug 14, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> I'm not gonna talk about whether Zoro could slice through Pheasant Beak or block a Magma Fist. I don't have the direct proof to say he could do it, but I sure as hell am not convinced he couldn't do it when he's slicing up giant stone golems and is a CoA specialist (as confirmed by Oda). I give the benefit of the doubt.



I'm pretty sure he could. Deduction perhaps.


----------



## NO (Aug 14, 2015)

Imagine said:


> Saying Zoro fought Fujitora is like saying Doflamingo fought Aokiji.
> 
> Yeah Zoro managed to stop falling and get some ground but is that a fight? Does that mean Zoro is admiral level or something? Zoro *clearly* didn't want a battle with this guy. Just read his dialogue. Don't lie to yourself.
> 
> Also post scans of them clashing post their first encounter.


You're right, they didn't fight. Zoro wasn't even trying.

Here is the second encounter. Two-sword style.



I'm not saying Zoro is admiral level, I'm telling you exactly what he's done. One-sword pushed Fujitora back and then Zoro is confident enough that he goes in for a second clash with two-swords. No named moves, nothing. Zoro used nothing of significance against Fujitora but was still fighting him. Granted, Fujitora didn't try either, but I'm not arguing that Fujitora is weaker than Zoro.


----------



## Imagine (Aug 14, 2015)

I don't understand why you even brought that up then. You used that encounter as if they were dead even when that wasn't the case at all. 

You obviously don't need to be admiral level or such to move an admiral level character. And it hardly makes Zoro look any better when you've seen what Fuji and Sabo did.


----------



## Kai (Aug 14, 2015)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Zoro high-diff.
> 
> Ace shouldn?t be much stronger than current Jimbei who has been compared to Sanji. So he?s roughly on Vergo/Pica level (prob a bit stronger) and since these guys can give Zoro an upper end of mid-diff fight, Ace could give him a high-diff one but nothing more.


Jimbei compared to Sanji? Is that in the manga?

Because that is severe underestimation for Jimbei if I've ever seen it.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

for some reason whenever you ask zolowankers to prove that zolo closed the gap between himself and luffy they resort to trolling

i wonder why


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> for some reason whenever you ask zolowankers to prove that zolo closed the gap between himself and luffy they resort to trolling
> 
> i wonder why



Did you miss the last 4 years of Luffy looking mediocre, and Zoro beast moding with his left nut sack. 

Or did you delude yourself into thinking Luffys performance since the time-skip has been anything but mediocre bar G4.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 14, 2015)

more of a character thing. oda has to make zoro look badass at all points and have luffy fool around.

the only way you can prove that zoro has closed the gap is by proving that zoro can go head to head with near-top tiers like doflamingo just like luffy can. even more, proving that zoro can absolutely waste doflamingo like luffy can.

which you can't do.

so you must concede by default.


----------



## Finalbeta (Aug 14, 2015)

Ace was as strong as Jinbei just before joining WB pirates

I feel Zoro to be stronger than him at these days, and as I don't think that Ace is at DD level (I may be wrong but Ace has no clear feats ), I would say it's a tie


----------



## Grimm6Jack (Aug 14, 2015)

Am I reading it right? Am I seeing people posting that Zoro is stronger than G2/G3 Luffy?



Pre-skip G2 Luffy was an entire tier above Zoro. In fact, since the start of the series Luffy in his base form has always been portrayed as slightly above Zoro or on his level, never not below.

During the time-skip Luffy has been training on the same level, if not above, Zoro's... Luffy has been facing and trying to master all his 3 forms of Haki the entire 2 years against 500 animals that before the time-skip were all stronger than him.

So can anyone explain to me how is current Zoro above current G2/G3 Luffy?

Being overused =/= being weaker.


----------



## Finalbeta (Aug 14, 2015)

Ace was as strong as Jinbei just before joining WB pirates

I feel Zoro to be stronger than him at these days, and as I don't think that Ace is at DD level (I may be wrong but Ace has no clear feats ), I would say it's a tie


----------



## Kaiser (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that's the most impressive thing he's done and it's less impressive than what Law did to Trebol.


It's Trebol's stupidity that led to his defeat. Not saying Law wouldn't have won in a fair fight, but he could have defeated Law in that situation if he didn't let his emotions take control of his act. The top executives were also not all comparable in strength. Vergo would give a much harder fight to Law than Trebol. Pica in Dressrosa will be a nightmare to Law. Pica not only was more powerful than Trebol, but he was fighting in the best location suitable to him. Unlike other executives, his power was situational and he was a top executive regardless of the location. With sufficient amount of rock, he was closer to Vergo in strength than Trebol, both of whom were also the only top executives capable of full body haki and whose defeat have been mirrored. The comparative portrayal around the fight between Law/Vergo and Zoro/Pica was rather clear


----------



## NO (Aug 14, 2015)

God Movement said:


> the only way you can prove that zoro has closed the gap is by proving that zoro can go head to head with near-top tiers like doflamingo just like luffy can. even more, proving that zoro can absolutely waste doflamingo like luffy can.
> 
> which you can't do.


Except we did by:
- 2 clashes with Fujitora
- on-par portrayal with Luffy
- the fact that Zoro still hasn't gone 100% despite fighting multiple New World veteran foes​
But whatever, keep downplaying Zoro, subordinate to one of the strongest men in the world for 2 years. We'll see what happens in Wano.


----------



## Etherborn (Aug 14, 2015)

Any thread with Zoro involved. 


Zoro high difficulty I guess.


----------



## Bernkastel (Aug 14, 2015)

G2/G3 Luffy would high diff Ace and so would Zoro since they're close.


----------



## MYJC (Aug 14, 2015)

Bernkastel said:


> G2/G3 Luffy would high diff Ace and so would Zoro since they're close.




Agreed. 

G2/G3 Luffy>=Zoro>Ace


Though all of these would be high diff fights.


----------



## Visa (Aug 14, 2015)

Let me just ask this: can people testifying for Zoro confirm that Zoro could indeed take out Vista and/or Jozu?


----------



## Captain Altintop (Aug 14, 2015)

Luffy (G4) >>  DD >> Yami Teach > Ace > Law > Luffy (no G4) > Zoro

I see Ace beating Zoro with high ( mid ) diff.


----------



## Pirao (Aug 15, 2015)

SeaOfHope said:


> Let me just ask this: can people testifying for Zoro confirm that Zoro could indeed take out Vista and/or Jozu?



How is that relevant to whether he could take Ace or not?


----------



## Ruse (Aug 15, 2015)

Could go either way


----------



## Extravlad (Aug 15, 2015)

People who thinks G2/G3 Luffy > Zoro are out of their minds.

Zoro would beats non G4 Luffy 10 times out of 10


----------



## Captain Altintop (Aug 15, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> People who thinks G2/G3 Luffy > Zoro are out of their minds.
> 
> Zoro would beats non G4 Luffy 10 times out of 10



When both of them don't use their new power ups, then Luffy (limited) > Zoro (limited).

Zoro without his secret power up who fought against Pica without using his highest moves IS NOT stronger than G2/G3 Luffy


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 15, 2015)

Zoro >>> G3 Luffy

Zoro >= G4 Luffy

2 eyes Zoro > G5 Luffy

Ashura Zoro >= G6 Luffy

Unrevealed Powerup Zoro = G7 Luffy


----------



## Kaiser (Aug 15, 2015)

Captain Altintop said:


> When both of them don't use their new power ups, then Luffy (limited) > Zoro (limited).
> 
> Zoro without his secret power up who fought against Pica without using his highest moves IS NOT stronger than G2/G3 Luffy


Even with current feats, Luffy has better speed than Zoro and that's it. Zoro beats him in destructive capacity, range and endurance


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Aug 15, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Even with current feats, Luffy has better speed than Zoro and that's it. Zoro beats him in destructive capacity, range and endurance



Dont argue with captain altilop , he's a known Troll and Zoro-hater


----------



## Canute87 (Aug 15, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Even with current feats, Luffy has better speed than Zoro and that's it. Zoro beats him in destructive capacity, range and endurance



Long range is irrelevant.  Luffy can close the gap, zoro can't fly.

Destructive capacity.  Swords vs Fists,  the struggle continues.

Endurance?  Hell no.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 15, 2015)

How doesn't Luffy have range?His EGG range craps on any range Zoro has shown.


----------



## NO (Aug 15, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> How doesn't Luffy have range?His EGG range craps on any range Zoro has shown.





You should do some calcs on Pica's size.


----------



## Dellinger (Aug 15, 2015)

jayjay?? said:


> You should do some calcs on Pica's size.



You do know that Luffy's fists were traveling for kilometers when he was smashing Noah.Zoro himself said that his attacks could not reach Pica from the place he was standing.

It's not salt it's facts and you Zoro-tards don't like them.


----------



## Kaiser (Aug 15, 2015)

Zoro didn't say his slashes couldn't reach Pica; He said it couldn't reach him with enough power to defeat him: 2 things different. Though i don't know the distance between Luffy and Noah when he was attacking it with EGG to judge accurately but he didn't seem to be that far away unless i'm mistaken



Canute87 said:


> Long range is irrelevant.  Luffy can close the gap, zoro can't fly.


Range is never irrelevant. It depends on how you use it in combat especially when talking about Zoro's range attacks that are fast to cast and incorporate mid battle



> Destructive capacity.  Swords vs Fists,  the struggle continues.


It's not just a sword versus fist matter though. 1080PC was comparable to grizzly magnum(stronger than Elephant Gun) in power and a singlular cut from Daisen Sekai eclipsed it by far. The regular Elephant Gatling gun is at best 10Elephant Gun used in an instant, unless he prolongs it like against Noah. And Daisen Sekai is a spamable move.



> Endurance?  Hell no.


Seriously?


----------



## NO (Aug 15, 2015)

White Hawk said:


> You do know that Luffy's fists were traveling for kilometers when he was smashing Noah.Zoro himself said that his attacks could not reach Pica from the place he was standing.
> 
> It's not salt it's facts and you Zoro-tards don't like them.


Firstly, Zoro's slash could reach Pica, it just wouldn't have had enough power to do much effect. (Source: )

Luffy's fists were not traveling for kilometers, only almost 1800 meters. (Source: )

We don't know how far Zoro was from Pica, but when he was up close, he slashed the range of almost every part of Pica's body. He slashed Pica from the waist to the top of his head, which is 1000 meters (Source: ).

However, consider the context. Zoro was trying to bait Pica out of his stone body. He first sliced the waist, then the height of his upperbody, then sliced up the entire width of his arm 7 times. This is Zoro baiting Pica to come out of the stone-body, this is not Zoro trying to impress us with his range. That being said, the only logical thing to do would be to give Zoro the benefit of the doubt that his range is much larger than what he's shown us, but not larger than the distance from Pica when he needed a launch. 

The math and logical deduction then tells us that Zoro and Luffy have similar attack range.


----------



## tanman (Aug 15, 2015)

lol at Zoro having better range than Luffy.
Noah was island sized, and his fists were wrecking it. Even if I'm wrong by calcs, I'm right by portrayal.


----------



## RileyD (Aug 15, 2015)

Captain Altintop said:


> Luffy (G4) >>  DD >> Yami Teach > Ace > Law > Luffy (no G4) > Zoro
> 
> I see Ace beating Zoro with high ( mid ) diff.



Law is clearly weaker than Luffy in G2 from feats against Doflamingo.
DD is not >> G2 luffy either, luffy avoided most of his attacks when not baby sitting Kyros or Law.


----------



## Coruscation (Aug 15, 2015)

tanman said:


> lol at Zoro having better range than Luffy.
> Noah was island sized, and his fists were wrecking it. Even if I'm wrong by calcs, I'm right by portrayal.



The entirety of Noah was half the size of FI.

Luffy's hands moved _across the deck._

I also wouldn't say that Zoro has better range, but what he does have is better ranged combat. Elephant Gatling is ridiculously clumsy in an actual fight and is basically just asking for some cut-off hands. Zoro's moves, on the other hand, are very quick, potent and risk-free up until a VERY long distance (seeing how the Daizen Sekai slash cut the entirety of the width of Pica's torso).


----------



## Canute87 (Aug 15, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> Range is never irrelevant. It depends on how you use it in combat especially when talking about Zoro's range attacks that are fast to cast and incorporate mid battle



It's irrelvant because if luffy's opponent is ever in long range whether ground or sky he has the means to close the gap.
Zoro cannot fly, luffy can at high speeds.  Luffy is also much faster on ground.

Luffy is a close to mid range fighter who has the ways and means to close distance .  Long range IS irrelevant if comparing these two.




> It's not just a sword versus fist matter though. 1080PC was comparable to grizzly magnum(stronger than Elephant Gun) in power and a singlular cut from Daisen Sekai eclipsed it by far. The regular Elephant Gatling gun is at best 10Elephant Gun used in an instant, unless he prolongs it like against Noah. And Daisen Sekai is a spamable move.



It always is.  The distribution  of power with swords and fists will always differ.  Swords only need to destroy the part it's aimed at.  Fists is absorbed by essentially a much larger area. So luffy is always going to need more force to destroy something completely that zoro can simply cut.



> Seriously?



Yup.


----------



## yantos (Aug 16, 2015)

range is irrlevent if someone has the speed to close the gap ? 

the whole point of range is to make up for speed to catch the oponenet , if he decided to to get close by his owen will  all he is doing is making things easier to zoro . flying slashes are basicly an after effect of swinging the sword fast  so a direct from that swing would be more damging


----------



## Ekkologix (Aug 17, 2015)

Ace is the 2nd commander cuz WB likes him lol.

I doubt he was stronger than Jozu or Vista, or at least that much stronger.

This is like Zoro VS Enel kinda. Where Zoro wins due to feats difference.

Post TS Zoro is not even pushed past 10% yet, while Pre TS was pushed to his limit; so I expect more hype from Zoro than Ace.

So Zoro wins feat-wise and hype-wise


----------

