# Ino vs Jirōbō



## Shizune (Jan 29, 2013)

*Location:* Bamboo forest

*Distance:* 30 meters

*Knowledge:* Jirōbō knows about Shintenshin, and Ino knows he uses doton.

*State of mind:* In character with killing intent.

Ino is current, and Jirōbō is at the time of his death.


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## Triggenism (Jan 29, 2013)

Jirōbō isn't gonna let Ino trap him with the mind control technique, since she has to stand still to use it. Unless she can somehow stall him with bunshins (something I haven't seen her make,) she's pretty much screwed considering he will go after her with massive taijutsu power. Eventually Jirōbō traps Ino in that big chakra-draining rock, from which she has no means of escaping, or he goes CS1/CS2 and crushes her with pure power.

She gets stomped either way.


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## Seiji (Jan 29, 2013)

Also just a question, say indeed Ino is successful in casting mind transfer to her opponent, how does she defeat him with it exactly? So when she possesses her enemy's body, then what happens next?


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## SasoriMyMan (Jan 29, 2013)

Nate River said:


> Also just a question, say indeed Ino is successful in casting mind transfer to her opponent, how does she defeat him with it exactly? So when she possesses her enemy's body, then what happens next?



She can throw an explosive tag kunai at his feet and release at the last second, effectively blowing him up


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## Bonly (Jan 29, 2013)

Ino loses. 1V1 fights are not her thing and if she gets inside of him she can't hurt him without hurting herself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## wooly Eullerex (Jan 29, 2013)

jirobo chucks earth pillar at ino
ino evades
jiro closes in
cqc ensues...
...GG.
. . . .Jirobo wins.​




.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jan 29, 2013)

Ino destroys him in CQC.  

Seriously, she fought Asuma, a Jonin who specialized in taijutsu, in a slower body that's completely opposite of her build and frame and weight, and forced him to move back and use ninjutsu, while Jirobu had difficulties with 12 year old Choji.  

Jirobu will die in a clash to straight taijutsu.


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## katanalauncher (Jan 29, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Ino destroys him in CQC.
> 
> Seriously, she fought Asuma, a Jonin who specialized in taijutsu, in a slower body that's completely opposite of her build and frame and weight, and forced him to move back and use ninjutsu, while Jirobu had difficulties with 12 year old Choji.
> 
> Jirobu will die in a clash to straight taijutsu.


She could never fight on par with tai with Asuma by herself.
And what's with the implication that jirobu is weaker than Asuma in CqC?
Choji is a specialized taijutsu fighter, and he still couldn't fight on par with base Jirobu while in base.
We've already seen what butterfly choji can do, so using him as a benchmark for Ino is ridiculous.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## PDQ (Jan 29, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Seriously, she fought Asuma, a Jonin who specialized in taijutsu, in a slower body that's completely opposite of her build and frame and weight, and forced him to move back and use ninjutsu


1.  You can tell by context that Shikamaru said Chouji was moving slow *relative to his normal speed* because he said "get your head on straight".  It was a delay due to a lack of focus, not a lack of speed.
2.  Chouji may have a different build/frame/weight, but he's also stronger.  Ino's own body wouldn't be able to put out nearly that much strength.
3.  I'm not entirely sure she wouldn't be used to it by now.  They've been friends/teammates since before they were genin, their families have been friends since before they were born.  If anything, she's likely trained in his body relatively often just in case.  We've seen how another Yamanaka took over Kakashi's body to use his sensing ability to get close to Zabuza.  Similarly, it would be necessary if Chouji were knocked out.  As the muscle of InoShikaChou, it would make sense for the one with sensing ability practiced taking him over so he could get close to enemies he couldn't sense himself.  She's even taken over his body during the chuunin exam to give him the answers.
4.  As his student, she would know the intricacies of his style.  As Jiraiya said of Pain, "_Since he's my student_, it's to be expected he's going straight for my weak points"
Shikaku even said that's why he had them fight him. "They are Asuma's students, _they know him better than anyone else_ out there.  They have the best chance of winning"
Students fighting their teacher is different from students fighting a total stranger.  They should be able to predict his attack patterns.


> while Jirobu had difficulties with 12 year old Choji.


Who was in Butterfly Mode, something that boosts your strength 100fold.  12 year old Butterfly Mode Chouji would demolish 15 year old Chouji fighting Asuma like Bijuu Mode Naruto fighting Konohamaru.  The second time he used it, he ended a warfront almost singlehandedly.  Jiroubou's CS2 strength took his massive strength and multiplied it tenfold.  Ino's taijutsu skill against something that strong would be like a champion Mixed Martial Arts fighter taking on a bulldozer.
What's a bit of taijutsu skill against someone who can one arm lift this with ease.
Chouji was getting kicked around by Jiroubou in base so there's no comparison.


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## Olympian (Jan 30, 2013)

Let`s also not forget that Asuma kept telling them to get cornered and was fighting with just one Kunai. Choji`s body is heavier than Ino`s, but it`s also physically and durably much stronger. In close quarters I think it`s better suited. 

Overall, I am not stealing Ino anything here, simply as others have, point out that she fought Asuma with Choji, not on her own. 

The only issue with her right now isn`t if she can take Jirobi if she suceeds to connect. It`s more like if she can do it on her own, period. She does somehow look faster, thought, so that may be a plus.


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## DaVizWiz (Jan 31, 2013)

At this point Ino can virtually blitz Jirobo and slice his throat open. She's been shown shunshining and reacting to Asuma's advances. Her kicking power sends Zetsu clones flying as a clear burst of power is shown on their flesh. 

No contest, Ino is in another class at this point as far as CQC goes. More importantly, Jirobo has generally no chance at avoiding mind transfer as his Jutsu is stationary and he can really only hurt Ino by moving in CQC. As far as what she can do to him while transfer is active, it's rather simple. She slits his wrists and transfers back before Jirobo bleeds to death.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Synn (Jan 31, 2013)

*Ino outclasses Jirōbō in every way.*

This is the same Ino that got serious against Asuma. She is faster, more analytical than her opponent, much more skilled in CQC.

Ino destroys him.



katanalauncher said:


> She could never fight on par with tai with Asuma by herself.
> And what's with the implication that jirobu is weaker than Asuma in CqC?



And yet she used two seemingly unconscious bodies, forcing Asuma to get back. Since when Zetsu are skilled in Taijutsu? It's her skills that made it happen, not theirs.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## -JT- (Jan 31, 2013)

Ino stomps.

She is faster and has better taijutsu and evasion. If she doesn't want to get her hands dirty then she snipes him with Shintenshin (which is now incredibly fast) and blows him up with a paper bomb.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Olympian (Jan 31, 2013)

Synn said:


> *Ino outclasses Jirōbō in every way.*.



Not on every stat.



Synn said:


> *And yet she used two seemingly unconscious bodies, forcing Asuma to get back. Since when Zetsu are skilled in Taijutsu? It's her skills that made it happen, not theirs.*


*

So we agree that it was Ino+Choji all along? Asuma was forced back thanks to teamwork and even so if not for Choja`s intervention, they would have gotten likely killed in the same scene.*


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## Synn (Jan 31, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Not on every stat.



I don't understand why people still use Databook stats to prove their point, when said stats are beyond outdated.



Olympian said:


> So we agree that it was Ino+Choji all along? Asuma was forced back thanks to teamwork and even so if not for Choja`s intervention, they would have gotten likely killed in the same scene.



Nobody's debating whether they would've lived or died without Chouza's intervention. None of his former students are in Asuma's league, but they still gave him a run for his money. Especially Ino!

The way I see it, Asuma could've easily pushed Chouji back (when Ino was inside him) since the latter is slow, yet he didn't... While I agree that Chouji is way above Ino's level in taijutsu, she was the one doing the fighting, not her teammate.

So I'd rather not go down the "Ino+Chouji" road... There is no solid evidence in the manga to prove that either of us is right.


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## -JT- (Jan 31, 2013)

My take on the Choji/Ino conundrum is that it's Choji's strength feat, seeing as she was using his body and muscles, but her reflexes and skills feat, seeing as it was her that was actually in control and applying her knowledge and experience to the situation.


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## Alita (Jan 31, 2013)

Synn said:


> *Ino outclasses Jirōbō in every way.*



She certainly doesn't have him beat in physical strength. And jirobo is probably the most durable member of the sound 4. I doubt a simple kunai slash would penetrate let alone kill him.


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## wooly Eullerex (Jan 31, 2013)

^ But Ino tanked the rebound of Juubis consciousness 

her durability must be off the charts


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## Godaime Tsunade (Jan 31, 2013)

Her Shintenshin is incredibly fast. Honestly, if she used it on Jirobo in close range, even without a distraction, its possible she could still blitz and take over his mind. Otherwise, she just has to look for an opening - whenever he charges at her in CQC, or lifts a giant boulder, for example.

And given her increase in taijutsu and reflexes, she's perfectly capable of defending herself in the event that Jirobo gets too close. She can take this comfortably.​​


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## Olympian (Feb 1, 2013)

Synn said:


> I don't understand why people still use Databook stats to prove their point, when said stats are beyond outdated.



We don`t really require to use Databook stats to read how Jirobo is obviously physically stronger and sturdier than Ino, you only need to read his fight with Choji for that.



Synn said:


> Nobody's debating whether they would've lived or died without Chouza's intervention. None of his former students are in Asuma's league, but they still gave him a run for his money. Especially Ino!
> 
> The way I see it, Asuma could've easily pushed Chouji back (when Ino was inside him) since the latter is slow, yet he didn't... While I agree that Chouji is way above Ino's level in taijutsu, she was the one doing the fighting, not her teammate.



Choji`s stats are part of the equation if she is using his body. In fact his much superior arm strenght was what stopped Asuma`s swing in the same scene. 



Synn said:


> So I'd rather not go down the "Ino+Chouji" road... There is no solid evidence in the manga to prove that either of us is right.


Well, the way I see, what do you think stopped Asuma`s swing on track? Her strenght or his strenght?

Even in terms of speed, the only time they were compared was against the initial attack of Asuma against the three, and in that scene the only remark Shikamaru gave Choji was that he was being the slowest of the three because his mind wasn`t focused.

What she does have is clearly faster reaction when pulling her own jutsu, at least.



-JT- said:


> My take on the Choji/Ino conundrum is that it's Choji's strength feat, seeing as she was using his body and muscles, but her reflexes and skills feat, seeing as it was her that was actually in control and applying her knowledge and experience to the situation.



It`s what I read as well.


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## Naiad (Feb 1, 2013)

Ino takes it low diff! She blitzes with shintenshin+ suicide attack yamanaka style! GG! She should be able to take it in taijutsu either! Her body strength isnt weak and strong! In her old stats she is exactly at the middle! But she has great speed and reflexes in taijutsu seen against asuma via chouji and the zetsus!

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## 2Broken (Feb 1, 2013)

I think the thing that screws Ino is Jirobo knows about her tech in this scenario. I don't think Jirobo was a genius, but I also don't think he was brain dead and he certainly has the abilities to make that jutsu useless in a 1 on 1 fight if he knows about it.

On the other hand Ino is no match for his strength in CQC and Jirobo can still attack her outside of CQC. In other words Ino is screwed either by earth jutsu or a fist.


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## Shinryu (Feb 1, 2013)

Base Ino's Shintenshin is too fast for Obito to react to so Ino makes him swallow poison/explosive tags then leaves his body to die

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Bonly (Feb 1, 2013)

ChaosX7 said:


> *Base Ino's Shintenshin is too fast for Obito to react to* so Ino makes him swallow poison/explosive tags then leaves his body to die



You do realize that he had no idea that anyone besides Naruto,B,Kakashi,Gai,the Juubi,and Madara was on the battlefield right? So how would he be able to react to something invisible when he's not paining attention to react to it? Don't over wank the feat.


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## wooly Eullerex (Feb 1, 2013)

''Base'' Ino


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## Olympian (Feb 2, 2013)

Bonly said:


> You do realize that he had no idea that anyone besides Naruto,B,Kakashi,Gai,the Juubi,and Madara was on the battlefield right? So how would he be able to react to something invisible when he's not paining attention to react to it? Don't over wank the feat.



That was the first time. He already knew about it the second time.


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## Bonly (Feb 2, 2013)

Olympian said:


> That was the first time. He already knew about it the second time.



And? Do you disagree with what I said happened or something?


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## Synn (Feb 2, 2013)

Bonly said:


> You do realize that he had no idea that anyone besides Naruto,B,Kakashi,Gai,the Juubi,and Madara was on the battlefield right? So how would he be able to react to something invisible when he's not paining attention to react to it? Don't over wank the feat.



You're right. He didn't realize a bunch of people were falling from the sky, despite having the two top doujutsu in history implanted in both orbits... That alone makes it one of the greatest feats a side character could get!

Also, his sharingan grants him the ability to track fast-moving objects and chakra. He should've been able to see them, considering they weren't even attacking from behind (iirc)... Plus, she managed to redirect a Bijuudama in just 2 seconds.

If you don't want to acknowledge this as being one of her greatest feats so far, then just deal with the fact that Obito failed horribly and said failure on his part slightly borderlines fodder material.

There is no excuse, my friend!


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## -JT- (Feb 2, 2013)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Synn again."


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## Bonly (Feb 2, 2013)

Synn said:


> You're right. He didn't realize a bunch of people were falling from the sky, despite having the two top doujutsu in history implanted in both orbits... *That alone makes it one of the greatest feats a side character could get!*





No it doesn't,well that is unless you chose to not use your brain and look at the situation. 



> Also, his sharingan grants him the ability to track fast-moving objects and chakra. He should've been able to see them, considering they weren't even attacking from behind (iirc)... Plus, she managed to redirect a Bijuudama in just 2 seconds.



Naruto+company were in the north facing south where Obito was at. Obito+company were in the south facing North were Naruto was at. Ino+company came from the east outside of Obito's line of sight. How was he should to see them,he doesn't have a Byakugan which would allow him to see them.



> If you don't want to acknowledge this as being one of her greatest feats so far, then just deal with the fact that Obito failed horribly and said failure on his part slightly borderlines fodder material.
> 
> There is no excuse, my friend!



That feat isn't great,all she did is what she always do and thats blindside someone. To say that getting inside of Obito is a great feat is quite sad. Try harder.


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## Rocky (Feb 2, 2013)

Synn, it wasn't Ino's feat alone. Hinata supported her.


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## Synn (Feb 2, 2013)

Bonly said:


> No it doesn't,well that is unless you chose to not use your brain and look at the situation.



Getting personal now, are we? It's right there, you just don't want to admit it.



Bonly said:


> Naruto+company were in the north facing south where Obito was at. Obito+company were in the south facing North were Naruto was at. Ino+company came from the east outside of Obito's line of sight. How was he should to see them,he doesn't have a Byakugan which would allow him to see them.



See, that's where you're wrong. Ino's team landed right next to Naruto, Kakashi and Gai, as seen here. Like you already stated, Naruto and company are facing their opponents right on, so he should've been able to see them especially considering the distance wasn't that great.



Bonly said:


> That feat isn't great,all she did is what she always do and thats blindside someone. To say that getting inside of Obito is a great feat is quite sad. Try harder.



If Obito was an ordinary character, sure. However, he is one of the strongest characters in the manga and that's why people (you included) don't want to admit that he was caught in such a "weak" technique. Like I said, get over it! 



Rocky said:


> Synn, it wasn't Ino's feat alone. Hinata supported her.



Yes, to hold her body and pinpoint the exact location of the enemy. I fail to see how this is any relevant to the topic at hand, though.


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## Rocky (Feb 2, 2013)

Synn said:


> Yes, to hold her body and pinpoint the exact location of the enemy. I fail to see how this is any relevant to the topic at hand, though.



I fail to see how Ino's feat of hitting a stationary opponent, with his focus diverted multiple ways, no knowledge, _and_ with a Hyuuga helping her "pinpoint his exact location", can somehow be applied here, where her opponent is actually battling her.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 2, 2013)

Jirobo is slower than ino but with knowledge he could keep the pressure on her by throwing giant boulders or making sure to have his earth barrier ready to go up if she stops to do the seal. Though this techniques are not quicker than ino's mind transfer so it looks bad for him.

But seeing as ino's mind can curve and move quick enough to allow for her to let choji block asuma's tech right before it hit i can see her catching jirobo and fucking up his technique or whatever he is doing.

Seeing as she held kinkaku in V2without much hassle jirobo being "too strong" is not an issue.

I am leaning towards ino catching him being more likely than jirobo's slow attacks defeating her. From there she will do a paper bomb killing maneuver...jirobo tanking a paper bomb going off in his mouth is not happening.


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## Bonly (Feb 2, 2013)

Synn said:


> Getting personal now, are we? It's right there, you just don't want to admit it.



Yup,since you always take everything personally.





> See, that's where you're wrong. Ino's team landed right next to Naruto, Kakashi and Gai, as seen here. Like you already stated, Naruto and company are facing their opponents right on, so he should've been able to see them especially considering the distance wasn't that great.



Can't see a single scan.



> If Obito was an ordinary character, sure. However, he is one of the strongest characters in the manga and that's why people (you included) don't want to admit that he was caught in such a "weak" technique. Like I said, get over it!



And thats the sad part about your view. You think that just because she did it on Obito who is strong,the feat is awesomely good. Im not sure how you got that I don't want to admit he got caught when all im saying is that the feat itself isn't all that great due to him not paying attention but due continue to make things up.


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## Synn (Feb 3, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I fail to see how Ino's feat of hitting a stationary opponent, with his focus diverted multiple ways, no knowledge, _and_ with a Hyuuga helping her "pinpoint his exact location", can somehow be applied here, where her opponent is actually battling her.



He knows about _Shintenshin_, but not about _Shinten Bunshin_. Ino can easily use it to catch him, should it come down to that.

Jirobo is nowhere near as clever as Part 1 Sakura, so I doubt Ino would have trouble hitting him in the first place.



Bonly said:


> Yup,since you always take everything personally.



Or maybe you are the one that likes to get personal when he has actually no arguments and resorts to flaming instead. Keep it up!



Bonly said:


> Can't see a single scan.



Scan 1 and 2.



Bonly said:


> And thats the sad part about your view. You think that just because she did it on Obito who is strong,the feat is awesomely good. Im not sure how you got that I don't want to admit he got caught when all im saying is that the feat itself isn't all that great due to him not paying attention but due continue to make things up.



That's the problem, exactly. Obito _was_ paying attention, but he didn't notice a bunch of ninjas in mid-air. I know that when said character has both the rinnegan and sharingan, it's a hard thing to swallow.

But yeah, I figured you had absolutely no arguments so I really won't waste any more time with you.


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## PDQ (Feb 3, 2013)

Synn said:


> *Ino outclasses Jirōbō in every way.*
> 
> She is faster, more analytical than her opponent, much more skilled in CQC.



Except strength.  By a *large* margin, especially in CS2.  That's the defining factor.

Basically when strength gaps are this big, taijutsu ends up like this

Kunai won't do anything even if they hit directly

And avoiding a shoulder tackle at close range is incredibly hard.

So being faster or good in CQC is rather pointless.  It's like trying to fight a steel wall.  That can ram you.


I'm curious how Shintenshin works when there's a doton thrown in the way.  Would the chakra in the doton stop/absorb it?  Or would it pass through?  Either way, if she leaves her body while that's coming at her, her spirit will have nothing to come back to but a crushed corpse.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Synn (Feb 3, 2013)

PDQ said:


> Except strength.  By a *large* margin, especially in CS2.  That's the defining factor.
> 
> Basically when strength gaps are this big, taijutsu ends up like this.



She was able to keep up with Asuma, and you think Jirobo is superior? Strength isn't a defining factor, using your head is.



PDQ said:


> Kunai won't do anything even if they hit directly.



Kunai may not be the end of him, but they can certainly be used as a distraction. That's all she needs to take this, really.



PDQ said:


> And avoiding a shoulder tackle at close range is incredibly hard.



For Ino? It's ironic, because Asuma's Dust Storm technique seems just as hard to dodge at close range, yet Ino pulled it off [1].

Considering she still had to cover the distance between Chouji and her and intercept him in time [2], especially in such a short amount of time, I'd say Jirobo's shoulder tackle is nothing.



PDQ said:


> So being faster or good in CQC is rather pointless.  It's like trying to fight a steel wall.  That can ram you.



How is he going to hit, when she can easily dodge his attacks?



PDQ said:


> I'm curious how Shintenshin works when there's a doton thrown in the way.  Would the chakra in the doton stop/absorb it?  Or would it pass through?  Either way, if she leaves her body while that's coming at her, her spirit will have nothing to come back to but a crushed corpse.



Ino only needed Shikamaru to distract Kinkaku for like 1 or 2 seconds to mind rape him [3]. A kunai can replicate that distraction.

Considering the starting distance and Ino's latest feats with _Shintenshin_ [4] [5], I have no reasons to believe it wouldn't connect sooner or later. Also, Ino's speed is enough to stay out of range from his _Doton_. That's the only thing in his arsenal that could potentially defeat her...

Lastly, given Ino's ability to sense chakra [6], trying to launch a sneak attack on her is futile. And just for the record, her speed with _releasing_ the technique has also increased a lot [7], so it really doesn't take that long for her to return to her body.


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## Bansai (Feb 3, 2013)

I'm really not convinced that Ino is strong but this is certainly going too far. There is no way current Ino would lose to someone as Jirobo. Her strengh, speed and flexibility have increased so much in these past years, that no member of the Sound 4 team (and I'm saying Sound 4 and not Sound 5 because Kimimaro is a different story) can beat her. There's just no way.


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## Olympian (Feb 3, 2013)

Bonly said:


> And? Do you disagree with what I said happened or something?



Obviously. The first time is perfectly excusable due to shinobi showing up and dropping from the sky on the battlefield. But Ino shot her jutsu at Obito twice, not once, and in that second time she was clearly one of the members of the squad particularly targetting him and the 10 Tails`s control. 



Bonly said:


> *You do realize that he had no idea that anyone besides Naruto,B,Kakashi,Gai,the Juubi,and Madara was on the battlefield right? So how would he be able to react to something invisible when he's not paining attention to react to it?* Don't over wank the feat.



Perhaps you should address your answers more clearly and act less as if I just kicked your cat 10 feet away. 

I only punched him once.


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## Atlantic Storm (Feb 3, 2013)

I feel that in this match, one hit from either contestant is enough to end this. Jirōbō is very strong, and Ino doesn't have a great deal of stamina or endurance, while Ino's techniques have shown enough power to capture the likes of Obito, even if for a little while. I believe that the crux of this match is this: who can get the first hit in?

On the one hand, Jirōbō definitely has power, and with his insane throwing ability, could potentially be able to control the flow of the match. Furthermore, he has _knowledge_, meaning that he'll be on the look-out for Ino's techniques and will be wary to start with. Assuming Jirōbō is aware of Shintenshin's weakness (it's linear motion), it's quite obvious who has the advantage as far as knowledge goes here.

However, on the other hand, Ino has the edge in speed and skill. Though she was using Chōji's body to do it, she showed enough skill in martial arts to be able to keep up with the likes of Asuma, and should be able to handle herself and potentially out-maneuver Jirōbō in close combat. Though, that's not the wisest option here, since she can't really hurt him and it's not her style. But, the location is a forest, and Ino's fighting style is abundant with trickery and stealth. If she plays her cards correctly, she could very well escape, remove line of sight and somehow catch Jirōbō with Shintenshin.

As I believe that the location is more suitable for Ino, I think she'd win more times than Jirōbō would, though it's certainly contestable.


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## Olympian (Feb 3, 2013)

I agree that her skill edge in close combat compared to Jirobo shouldn`t make it an option for her to actually try such a tactic. If it wasn`t for Choji`s strenght she wouldn`t have done as well against Asuma (and it still took two of Choji`s arm to stop one of Asuma in the swing clash..) and she falls in a similar problem here, but only actually bigger. She`s more skilled, but Jirobo can daze her with a single punch if it connects, or hit the ground. Unlike against Asuma, she also doesn`t know how the opponent`s style is to the same extent and that may give her a nasty surprise if she comes too close. 

Her best options are using her finer skill in close combat for evasion and then pull her main gambit - in which it has been notely adressed that her speed in using Mind Switch has been stellar.


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## Bonly (Feb 3, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Obviously. The first time is perfectly excusable due to shinobi showing up and dropping from the sky on the battlefield. But Ino shot her jutsu at Obito twice, not once, and in that second time she was clearly one of the members of the squad particularly targetting him and the 10 Tails`s control.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And your point being? Do you happen to actually read the post or do you half ass read? He said "base Ino" so one would assume that Ino with Kurama's chakra isn't in base which would mean that the first time is the only time to pay attention to. So again do you disagree with what I said happened the first time or something or not?


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## Olympian (Feb 5, 2013)

Bonly said:


> And your point being? Do you happen to actually read the post or do you half ass read? He said "base Ino" so one would assume that Ino with Kurama's chakra isn't in base which would mean that the first time is the only time to pay attention to. So again do you disagree with what I said happened the first time or something or not?



What happened the second time is the same thing that happened the first time. Except this time she was right in front of him, which only excludes the "he wasn`t paying attention" argument.

Nothing in the scene tells that she can`t acess Obito`s mind without Kuruma`s chakra.


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## Bonly (Feb 5, 2013)

Olympian said:


> What happened the second time is the same thing that happened the first time. Except this time she was right in front of him, which only excludes the "he wasn`t paying attention" argument.
> 
> Nothing in the scene tells that she can`t acess Obito`s mind without Kuruma`s chakra.



Right because its not like she didn't get a boast for her jutsu or anything and Obito was focusing right on her and her alone right? Not sure how this changes how he wasn't paying attention to her the first time but ok.

Thats pretty neat, I don't recall someone saying she couldn't access his mind but thanks for that tid bit.


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## Rosencrantz (Feb 6, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Ino destroys him in CQC.
> 
> Seriously, she fought Asuma, a Jonin who specialized in taijutsu, in a slower body that's completely opposite of her build and frame and weight, and forced him to move back and use ninjutsu, while Jirobu had difficulties with 12 year old Choji.
> 
> Jirobu will die in a clash to straight taijutsu.



Chouji was stronger. A lot stronger. Whether Ino could do that in her own body is not confirmed. Do not attach feats in Chouji's body to Ino. Sorry.



Synn said:


> She was able to keep up with Asuma, and you think Jirobo is superior? Strength isn't a defining factor, using your head is.
> 
> Kunai may not be the end of him, but they can certainly be used as a distraction. That's all she needs to take this, really.
> 
> ...


You aren't reading. If she goes at him with taijutsu, if she even lands a punch or kick it will not phase him. So she can punch or kick all day, but with his superior strength, it means nothing. Nevermind her feats come from using 2 Zetsu and Chouji. She does not have them here. Sorry?

Do not say MAY not. They will not. Don't be silly. Yeah kunai distraction? I'm sorry, but you are very poor when it comes to arguing this point. So basically she throws a kunai and this distracts Jirobou so much so that he forgets she has Shintenshin and is so ingrained in thought concerning the kunai that he is caught by Shintenshin? Do you know how hilarious that sounds or did it take me typing this out for you to realize it?

She actually had hundreds of kunai, then Chouji, then Shikamaru to bind his movements, no knowledge on her jutsu and the guy was focused on Shikamaru for his attack. You missed a few things.  And 1 Kunai will not be replicating all of that.

I believe you referenced one feat in which the target is distracted like crazy and has no knowledge. The other feat has shintenshin enhanced by Hinata. Oh and the target is blindsided. Ino does not have Hinata to help her this time. Ino does not have Naruto, Kakashi, etc to distract the target this time. She does not have luxury of her opponent having no knowledge of her ability this time. She does not have the luxury of Shikamaru, Chouji, and an entire division's worth of kunai showering her opponent. The differences are extremely apparent.

....Oh you're serious. The entire statement where she says she can sense chakra... let's be honest here. Ino was bluffing about killing her. She was very well bluffing the whole time. Wasn't the first time she had bluffed, right? You have no idea what limits there are to her sensing anyone if she can. It may take the utmost amount of concentration. It may be unreliable. Now you think her "sensory" ability means she is immune to sneak attacks? Do I need to really show you confirmed powerful sensors that have been sneak attacked? Or do you realize what you said was foolish and I don't need to show you real sensors getting surprise attacked?

It still takes time. Enough time for Jirobou to wreck her should she miss.


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## Olympian (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Right because its not like she didn't get a boast for her jutsu or anything and Obito was focusing right on her and her alone right? Not sure how this changes how he wasn't paying attention to her the first time but ok.



You mean boost and considering it`s exactly what she did before, no, I don`t think her boost was about that. I think it was more about her increasing speed as noted by Naruto. 



Bonly said:


> Thats pretty neat, I don't recall someone saying she couldn't access his mind but thanks for that tid bit.



You look more stranded than a lonely cat in a bathtub. This is "Ino vs Jirobo".


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

Olympian said:


> You mean boost and considering it`s exactly what she did before, no, I don`t think her boost was about that. I think it was more about her increasing speed as noted by Naruto.



And? Does this change the fact that when she hit Obito in base, he wasn't paying attention? No? So you pretty much aren't bringing anything good to the table to refute that he wasn't paying attention like I said since you only bring up things from her second try? Concession accepted.  



> You look more stranded than a lonely cat in a bathtub. This is "Ino vs Jirobo".



Concession accepted.


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## Olympian (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> And? Does this change the fact that when she hit Obito in base, he wasn't paying attention? No? So you pretty much aren't bringing anything good to the table to refute that he wasn't paying attention like I said since you only bring up things from her second try? Concession accepted.



Before you waste bandwich on a couple of rounds, chasing your own tail around the issue on how she has another example of using "Mind Switch" on Obito apart from the one example you stick your coils on - one where Obito was not distracted and one where the one major improvement noted was in terms of speed - allow me to say that I loved your strawman act in the first movie. 

Your sequels have all sucked equally, though.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Before you waste bandwich on a couple of rounds, chasing your own tail around the issue on how she has another example of using "Mind Switch" on Obito apart from the one example you stick your coils on - one where Obito was not distracted and one where the one major improvement noted was in terms of speed - allow me to say that I loved your strawman act in the first movie.
> 
> Your sequels have all sucked equally, though.



Lets do a recap here since you seem to not follow along quite well. Someone pointed out how because she hit Obito in base, its easy to hit Jirobo. I pointed out how Obito wasn't paying attention in said situation. You do nothing but point things out from the second time. You have not refuted anything I said regarding to said situation just bring up points from the second time. So unless you refuting that Obito wasn't paying attention I accept your concession.

Try harder brah, the talking out of your ass has been old and stale for a while.


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## Olympian (Feb 6, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Lets do a recap here since you seem to not follow along quite well. Someone pointed out how because she hit Obito in base, its easy to hit Jirobo. *I pointed out how Obito wasn't paying attention in said situation. You do nothing but point things out from the second time*. You have not refuted anything I said regarding to said situation just bring up points from the second time. So unless you refuting that Obito wasn't paying attention I accept your concession.



So, just to be clear, I shouldn`t bring up the second time - a scene in which Obito was indeed paying attention - because otherwise you what, go sensitive? Haven`t you realize by now that you are in a discussion forum?

Your routine of "Asuma was slow because he didn`t hit Hidan - but Kakashi somehow wasn`t when he failed to do the same" was better. Fresher. But the novelty wears out.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2013)

Olympian said:


> *So, just to be clear, I shouldn`t bring up the second tim*e - a scene in which Obito was indeed paying attention - because otherwise you what, go sensitive? Haven`t you realize by now that you are in a discussion forum?



You got it, I accept your concession.



> Your routine of "Asuma was slow because he didn`t hit Hidan - but Kakashi somehow wasn`t when he failed to do the same" was better. Fresher. But the novelty wears out.



Yup because Asuma's slow, couldn't hit Hidan even with Shika's shadow's helping him while Kakashi managed to at least clashed with him. Draw and bridge and get over it.


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## PDQ (Feb 7, 2013)

Synn said:


> She was able to keep up with Asuma, and you think Jirobo is superior? Strength isn't a defining factor, using your head is.


Using your head only becomes a factor when you can actually hurt your opponent.  Asuma doesn't have the strength lift Chouji when he's 100x his normal size.


> Kunai may not be the end of him, but they can certainly be used as a distraction. That's all she needs to take this, really.


Not really, swatting away kunai would be trivial.


> For Ino? It's ironic, because Asuma's Dust Storm technique seems just as hard to dodge at close range, yet Ino pulled it off


Not even a close comparison.
Dust storm he pulled off hand seals and even had time to tell them to get out of the way and they were like 10 feet away, far from CQC range.


> How is he going to hit, when she can easily dodge his attacks?


Not if she's right next to him trying to pull off CQC.  


> Ino only needed Shikamaru to distract Kinkaku for like 1 or 2 seconds to mind rape him [3]. A kunai can replicate that distraction.


A kunai won't even distract for half a second.  And Ino needed both Shikamaru to hold him for a second(and time for Kinkaku to realize it and try to break out), and Chouji to hit him.  That's a good 5 seconds of distraction time.


> I have no reasons to believe it wouldn't connect sooner or later.


Even assuming it connected, there's nothing she's been shown to do with it of any use.  Her use of it has always been contrived.  She's used it to help her teammate fight via controlling bodies, but when it comes down to controlling her opponent, she hasn't shown the ability to actually take any offensive action.  The first time she used it, it was an exam so she could make them say "I give up".  The second time, it was when they had a sealing pot that required her to answer a call.  The third and fourth time, it was to make the enemy divert their attack.  She never stays in to do damage to them.  In character, she's never used it as a general combat technique on an opponent.  It's almost like Kishi pulls a  whenever it comes to her fighting.

Even if she tried to use it like Fuu, who actually did use it to attack which she hasn't, he had the obvious flaws pointed out in trying to use it to hurt someone.


> Lastly, given Ino's ability to sense chakra [6], trying to launch a sneak attack on her is futile.


To what degree of precision?  She's never shown to sense the direction of an opponent.  All she's claimed is to be able to have a general sense of distance of chakra.  All she'd be able to tell is that he hasn't run away.


> And just for the record, her speed with _releasing_ the technique has also increased a lot [7], so it really doesn't take that long for her to return to her body.


Releasing the technique has to do with getting out of the mind, not necessarily getting back to her body.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Olympian (Feb 7, 2013)

Bonly said:


> You got it, I accept your concession.



I humbly accept your withdrawl about not wanting to discuss the other scene where Ino sucessfully Mind Switches Obito.  



Bonly said:


> Yup because Asuma's slow, couldn't hit Hidan even with Shika's shadow's helping him *while Kakashi managed to at least clashed with him*. Draw and bridge and get over it.



You want to draw the bridge and overlook the following:

*.* Kakashi had full knowledge and Sharingan. 

*.* Hidan`s weapon was _gimped_, i.e: no range whatsoever. No spikes either. 

*.* Kakashi wasn`t seen connecting him either other than the initial blade clash, just like Asuma. 

Your whole debate style revolves around ignoring what is there and beat yourself around the bush. You should only do that in your privacy. As long you do it here you won`t get anywhere.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## raizen28 (Feb 7, 2013)

Why do people use Hidan as a Line for Underestimation to hype otthers. Hidan was a Very Skilled Shinobi

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Olympian (Feb 7, 2013)

PDQ said:


> A kunai won't even distract for half a second.  And Ino needed both Shikamaru to hold him for a second(and time for Kinkaku to realize it and try to break out), and Chouji to hit him.  That's a good 5 seconds of distraction time.



This is Jirobo we are talking about here, thought. I always had the impression he was supposed to be the slowest of the Sound group and the strategic weakest. 

Given prior intel, I can see Jirobo being smart enough to punch the ground to not give Ino a stationary safeground to use her Jutsu, but as far as being distracted I can see it happening.  



PDQ said:


> Not even a close comparison.
> Dust storm he pulled off hand seals and even had time to tell them to get out of the way and they were like 10 feet away, far from CQC range.



Not to mention, she also had Shikamaru trying to capture Asuma before he shot the attack. 



PDQ said:


> In character, she's never used it as a general combat technique on an opponent.  It's almost like Kishi pulls a  whenever it comes to her fighting



Now that is just mean PDQ, Aquaman was punching Wonder Woman back and forth recently .

I know what you mean thought, she`s the support wonder, not someone who has been called to deal head on with someone. Thus why I personally think that going CQC with Jirobo is not the best tactic for her, but evasion/distraction and Mind Switch is.


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## Olympian (Feb 7, 2013)

raizen28 said:


> Why do people use Hidan as a Line for Underestimation to hype otthers. Hidan was a Very Skilled Shinobi


Comes with the territory together with saying Kisame was a slow CQC fighter.


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## Rosencrantz (Feb 12, 2013)

Olympian said:


> This is Jirobo we are talking about here, thought. I always had the impression he was supposed to be the slowest of the Sound group and the strategic weakest.
> 
> Given prior intel, I can see Jirobo being smart enough to punch the ground to not give Ino a stationary safeground to use her Jutsu, but as far as being distracted I can see it happening.
> 
> Thus why I personally think that going CQC with Jirobo is not the best tactic for her, but evasion/distraction and Mind Switch is.


Pretty sure that is correct. The other 3 were pretty smart. He kind of wasn't ha.

Distraction possible? Perhaps. But with just a kunai? Hell no. Synn's 1 kunai distraction bull was ridiculous. Still is. She is smart she may be able to do it.

It's the only tactic. Ino going up against Jirobou in close quarters is laughable. And I am thinking of Base. CS1/CS2 included? Ha. Running from him through the trees to land her jutsu is her only option. Problem is I have no idea what she could do assuming she could pull it off before he can kill her. Like make him jump off a cliff? Has to be timed perfectly.


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## PDQ (Feb 12, 2013)

Olympian said:


> Now that is just mean PDQ, Aquaman was punching Wonder Woman back and forth recently .
> 
> I know what you mean thought, she`s the support wonder, not someone who has been called to deal head on with someone. Thus why I personally think that going CQC with Jirobo is not the best tactic for her, but evasion/distraction and Mind Switch is.


Still goes back to the fact Mind Switch is useless in battle outside of contrived situations.  As Ao pointed out, the timing needs to be perfect to be used, and even Fu, who's actually shown using such a followup, didn't pull it off.

If the conditions of this match were that Ino just had to make Jirobo say "I give up" or Shikamaru had the sealing pot and she just had to respond in his body, she'd stand a good chance of winning.  But just a fight to the death?  Shintenshin is all but useless

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Olympian (Feb 12, 2013)

Areed, I don`t think Jirobi will just fall in terms of distraction with just one Kunai or anything. He`s not that dim-witted. 

I also agree (with PDQ) that Mind Switch needs to be perfectly timed. However, since she got better evasion examples and her speed in using the jutsu is, from Naruto`s own words, currently really fast, I think if she manages to indeed put a convincing distraction, she is fast enough to time it against Jirobo here. 

Someone faster? Not really. But I think it helps that he wasn`t particularly fast to begin with even in the context of part I. Then again, that`s really her main shot here.


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## Naiad (Feb 12, 2013)

PDQ said:


> As Ao pointed out, the timing needs to be perfect to be used, and even Fu, who's actually shown using such a followup, didn't pull it off.



he was interrupted by mei! thats why the suicide attack failed


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## Tobirama Uchiha (May 15, 2016)

Ino, seriously?
Jirobo is stronger than Ino in any section except Genjutsu
Easy win for Jirobo

Reactions: Dislike 1


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