# Sage mode hashirama vs dangai ichigo



## ACE NITRO (Sep 23, 2016)

Location : vote

Distance : 20m

Knowledge : full

Scenario 2 : base hashirama vs fullbring bankai ichigo


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

@Nighty @MusubiKazesaru this needs to be moved to the battledome

On the topic of the thread though, if Hashirama lands his gates he wins.

I forgot that Pain has the country to maybe continent level CT so this is actually a stomp for Hashirama in both Scenarios


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## MusubiKazesaru (Sep 23, 2016)

Hashirama is country level regardless. I guess he might scale to CT since he's up there with even Prime Kyuubi while 50% 8 tailed Kyuubi broke that CT.

Doesn't Dango Ichigo cap at small country with his one shot move? Even without the CT scaling, SM Hashirama has the means to win.

As far as scenario 2 goes, Ichigo is town level and MHS right? I'm pretty sure Hashirama shits on characters with similar stats in his verse.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> Hashirama is country level regardless. I guess he might scale to CT since he's up there with even Prime Kyuubi while 50% 8 tailed Kyuubi broke that CT.
> 
> Doesn't Dango Ichigo cap at small country with his one shot move? Even without the CT scaling, SM Hashirama has the means to win.
> 
> As far as scenario 2 goes, Ichigo is town level and MHS right? I'm pretty sure Hashirama shits on characters with similar stats in his verse.


considering a CT from a stronger Nagato was busted by a casual BD from Gyuki and some help from Naruto and Itachi, SM Hashirama definitely scales to Pain's CT. 

Base Hashi has wood techs that can cover him from Prime Kurama's BD so yea its a stomp


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

Hashirama is quite explicitly > Prime Kyuubi, as he could fight both Kyuubi and Madara at the same time and win.


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 23, 2016)

What if it was the ichigo that faced yhwach


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

He'd have more of a chance, but I'd still lean towards Hashirama due to versatility

Reactions: Agree 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

John Wayne said:


> Hashirama is quite explicitly > Prime Kyuubi, as he could fight both Kyuubi and Madara at the same time and win.


he did need SM to even the playing field. before that he was mostly on the defensive and could barely land a hit on them together


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

True but he could most likely beat either of them 1v1 in base.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

John Wayne said:


> True but he could most likely beat either of them 1v1 in base.


oh yea he can beat them both in base


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 23, 2016)

Shouldn't Fullbring Bankai Ichigo be island level? He took multiple blows from base Yhwach and fucked up his arm. Not sure how strong Dangai Ichigo is though, island or country buster probably


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

Fullbring Bankai Ichigo had issues with most sternritters he ran into, had extreme trouble breaking out of the cage, got pretty handily beaten by Yhwach and Haschwalth broke his Bankai.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Shouldn't Fullbring Bankai Ichigo be island level? He took multiple blows from base Yhwach and fucked up his arm. Not sure how strong Dangai Ichigo is though, island or country buster probably


no. Yhwach only wanted to incapacitate him IIRC and was surprised when Ichigo blocked his hit with Blut Vene and Ichigo caught him off guard. Haschwalth snapped Ichigo's bankai casually

Edit: ninja'd


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 23, 2016)

Yhwach was trying to kill him at first, he attempted to stab through his throat. Haschwalth broke Ichigo's sword with his Schrift not brute strength. Besides, those are two casual island busters


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

They still dominated him though, so he shouldn't scale.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 23, 2016)

Jackalinthebox said:


> Yhwach was trying to kill him at first, he attempted to stab through his throat. Haschwalth broke Ichigo's sword with his Schrift not brute strength. Besides, those are two casual island busters


No Haschwalth broke it with his sword. Yhwach wanted to use Ichigo and wasnt trying to murder him


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 23, 2016)

I'm saying that Ichigo should scale from eyepatched Zaraki's Shikai feat. Hasch and Yhwach would trash Shikai Zaraki as well, Ichigo should at least be in the same ballpark as him. Haschwalth broke Ichigo's Bankai with his sword yes, but he used the Balance too. Could be wrong I guess, been a long ass time since I read the beginning of the Bleach war arc 

And I thought Yhwach didn't decide to try and take Ichigo until after he saw him use Blut?


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

Zaraki took out a bunch of random sternritter before his powerup, and it's pretty heavily implied he was in a different league after it. Ichigo on the other hand....


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## Jag77 (Sep 23, 2016)

Continent level Nagato???????? Holy shit


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## John Wayne (Sep 23, 2016)

Pre royal guard  Ichigo never fought 6 sternritter at the same time.


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## Sablés (Sep 23, 2016)

John Wayne said:


> Pre royal guard  Ichigo never fought 6 sternritter at the same time.


And who said he fought them? Read that post again


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## MusubiKazesaru (Sep 23, 2016)

Jag77 said:


> Continent level Nagato???????? Holy shit


Well it's actually country level but yeah, it was done by the less powerful Deva Pein.


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## Jag77 (Sep 23, 2016)

Country level Nagato???? 

Jesus christ.


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## Jag77 (Sep 23, 2016)

His profile needs updating then.


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## shade0180 (Sep 24, 2016)

Everything in the wiki needs some upgrading to be done..

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alita (Sep 24, 2016)

Hashi should be in the mid triple digit teratons range after the CT upgrade so he should win.


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 24, 2016)

I thought that dangai ichigo was scaled from yhwach which puts him at country level so this match won't be that much of a stomp given that ichigo is also faster


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## Nighty the Mighty (Sep 24, 2016)

I feel like we need to have a group discussion about how "upgrades" work


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## shade0180 (Sep 24, 2016)

The current scaling used from what I have seen is basically running in a circular logical manner..

which is questionable in a lot of cases.

An example seen right in this very thread here, which is also an apparent argument use by tanathon.

Just some stupid example.

Bleach had a feat done by Yourwack

Ichigo got punked by Yourwack and survived the encounter.

He must have the same stat as him.

right......


Superman survive an encounter with DS

DS has a multiversal feat

Supes must be Multiversal

right....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Wasn't the CT calc small-country level


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

Even base Hashirama should scale to Nagato, so Hashirama doesn't need Sage Mode to beat Ichigo here.

I'm more interested in if Hashirama can beat EoS Ichigo.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> The current scaling used from what I have seen is basically running in a circular logical manner..
> 
> which is questionable in a lot of cases.
> 
> ...


Impressed enough by Ichigo's hollowfied physical strength that Yhwach specifically opts to draw his sword rather than continue to throw goo at him.

Finds Ichigo enough of a threat after getting gran rey getsuga'd that he brings out the Almighty, explicitly noting he no longer has the luxury of holding back.

Immediately shatters Ichigo's bankai while acknowledging its power, which is later corroborated when an exhausted Ichigo with no hollow/quincy powers liquidizes Yhwach with a single getsuga.

Never actually triumphs in his final bouts with Ichigo in a direct contest of power, but through the Almighty's future manipulation.

Please keep your retarded "circular logic" strawmans to yourself, thanks.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> Impressed enough by Ichigo's hollowfied physical strength that Yhwach specifically opts to draw his sword rather than continue to throw goo at him.
> 
> Finds Ichigo enough of a threat after getting gran rey getsuga'd that he brings out the Almighty, explicitly noting he no longer has the luxury of holding back.
> 
> ...



Don't bother man, I've explained this like 5 different times.

Does the shikai version scale to Dangai though


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## Jag77 (Sep 24, 2016)

Yhwach specifically stated Royal Shikai Ichigo is equal in strength to Bankai Dangai Ichigo via the translations I had.

"And then you once again attained that same strength to defeat Aizen, by cutting down the Soul King right before me!!!"


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## Jag77 (Sep 24, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Even base Hashirama should scale to Nagato, so Hashirama doesn't need Sage Mode to beat Ichigo here.
> 
> I'm more interested in if Hashirama can beat EoS Ichigo.



I highly doubt it. Ichigo is Country+ and also has super casual country striking + Cutting abuse, flight and a hefty speed advantage.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Does the shikai version scale to Dangai though


That one's kinda hazy, honestly. EoS bankai is demonstrably far above both of them, but the relative standings of shikai and dangai? Harder to pin down since there's not many concrete points of comparison.


Jag77 said:


> Yhwach specifically stated Royal Shikai Ichigo is equal in strength to Bankai Dangai Ichigo via the translations I had.
> 
> "And then you once again attained that same strength to defeat Aizen, by cutting down the Soul King right before me!!!"


Say what?

Which translation was this, and when? Viz?


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> That one's kinda hazy, honestly. EoS bankai is demonstrably far above both of them, but the relative standings of shikai and dangai? Harder to pin down since there's not many concrete points of comparison.



I would think he'd scale because the shikai enhancements was basically him using the full power of his hollow side. Not referring to the one who fought Ulq btw since Ichigo himself made improvements. 




> Which translation was this, and when? Viz?



In any case its wrong. At best Yhwach was referring to an estimate of Ichigo's full power after he finally learned what they were. Common sense would suggest he's above Dangai on that principle alone.


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## Jag77 (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> That one's kinda hazy, honestly. EoS bankai is demonstrably far above both of them, but the relative standings of shikai and dangai? Harder to pin down since there's not many concrete points of comparison.
> Say what?
> 
> Which translation was this, and when? Viz?



Uhhhhh not sure if it was Viz but this is what I meant.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

That font isn't Viz, so we can't verify that.

And based on the juxtaposition of the panels, it would seem Yhwach was just generally referring to 'power' when he stated Ichigo had reclaimed it; after all, the panel next to that text is that of Ginjō. No way is Fullbring Bankai Ichigo on Dangai Ichigo's level.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jag77 (Sep 24, 2016)

Damn. 

But we can all agree that Royal Ichigo is superior to Dangai Ichigo right?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 24, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Even base Hashirama should scale to Nagato, so Hashirama doesn't need Sage Mode to beat Ichigo here.
> 
> I'm more interested in if Hashirama can beat EoS Ichigo.


if its SM Hashi who has continent level wood gates, then Ichigo is fucked no matter what version you use


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

Here's the Viz translation, for those interested:



Yeah, this translation's a lot more clear. 'From defeating Sosuke Aizen' is just a reference to how Ichigo lost his abilities. Yhwach isn't specifying which stage in Ichigo's power that he regained, he's just talking about 'power' as a generic term. 

That said, I would still say post-Royal-Realm-training Ichigo should be around the same level as or stronger than Dangai Ichigo. Yhwach implied that Ichigo had only just truly acquired his true power when Ichigo *re*-visited the Royal Realm for his final duel with Yhwach.


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## youresafenow (Sep 24, 2016)

Dangai Ichigo no sweat

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

My rough interpretation of the hierarchy would be something like this, probably: EoS Bankai (Hollowfied) > EoS Bankai > EoS Shikai (Hollowfied) >= (?) Dangai > EoS Shikai

Purely in absolute terms, so not accounting for actual scale of differences in strength.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

People like to poke fun at post-Royal-Realm Ichigo's feats against the non-Elite Sternritter as hard evidence of him not being anywhere Dangai Ichigo's level. And admittedly, they were very underwhelming. But I'd like to point out that, even following his first encounter with Yhwach (with Yoruichi and co.), Ichigo was still getting stronger and stronger.


With this scan, I think you can at least make the argument that Royal Realm Shikai Ichigo is > Dangai Ichigo. Maybe not Mugetsu Ichigo, though.

And Byakuya reassured Rukia about Ichigo taking on Yhwach alone by noting his reiatsu.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 24, 2016)

Yeah Yourwhack sure likes to hear himself speak, but how reliable is he, really? He's haxed to hell, but his quantifiable stats don't seem that great. As far as I recall, the most impressive thing he ever did was slice Yamamoto in two. And before he did that, he still felt the need to steal Yama's bankai. 

@muffin
Well therein lies the rub, doesn't it? Byakuya could feel Ichigo's reiatsu. Doesn't the fact that other people could still sense him confirm that he isn't on the same level as his Dengai version? 
... and yeah, there's the Askin thing. Dengai Ichigo most certainly could have cut him into confetti in an instant.


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## Imagine (Sep 24, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> Yeah Yourwhack sure likes to hear himself speak, but how reliable is he, really? He's haxed to hell, but his quantifiable stats don't seem that great. As far as I recall, the most impressive thing he ever did was slice Yamamoto in two. And before he did that, he still felt the need to steal Yama's bankai.


He has the best DC feat in the series which is country+, m8


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## SSBMonado (Sep 24, 2016)

Imagine said:


> He has the best DC feat in the series which is country+, m8


Which was that again?


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## Imagine (Sep 24, 2016)

Lifting some city with TK


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

I would complain about having to continually cite my blog for but I at least acknowledge that the current blog system is complete garbage.

On the other hand, we still seem to have most people still posting relevant feats in the blogs, despite the fact that we now have a calc section specifically because the blogs are shit. So what do I know?


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> @muffin
> Well therein lies the rub, doesn't it? Byakuya could feel Ichigo's reiatsu. Doesn't the fact that other people could still sense him confirm that he isn't on the same level as his Dengai version?
> ... and yeah, there's the Askin thing. Dengai Ichigo most certainly could have cut him into confetti in an instant.



No, because Yhwach's reiatsu was detectable by SS' sensors and we all know Aizen at his peak, ergo stronger than his Monster form, wasn't shit to him.

Transcendence and 'can't feel his reiatsu!' is complete horseshit and doesn't mean anything.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

My exact understanding of Detergent's soul physics is admittedly rusty, but I'd.. not use that as a counterexample, given transcendence can be tuned up or down, in addition to the fact we don't know if the research institute's specialized devices are necessarily subject to the same limitations of perception as physical beings.

Given Mayuri eventually built restraints for Aizen that confined his reiatsu according to a range (probably hard to design and utilize if you can't measure what it's made to limit) and that, if I recall, these are the same guys in charge of monitoring the overall flow of souls?

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

Hell, the fact that most of the squads got time off, as opposed to Seireitei shutting everything down and declaring a possible class X apocalypse?

Kinda lends credit to the idea that what they were detecting wasn't of the insanely immense magnitude as say, ten years prior.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> My exact understanding of Detergent's soul physics is admittedly rusty, but I'd.. not use that as a counterexample, *given transcendence can be tuned up or down*



Don't see how this is relevant in my counterexample being faulty.



> in addition to the fact we don't know if the research institute's specialized devices are necessarily subject to the same limitations of perception as physical beings.



This is fair.

I swear Yhwach's reiatsu post-Reiō absorption has been sensed at one point, but I gotta scrounge for it.


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Don't see how this is relevant in my counterexample being faulty.


Just because they can sense Yhwach's reiatsu doesn't mean he isn't a transcendent or whatever, they can let others sense them as they please just like Aizen can.

Not that I even recall anyone making note of Yhwach's spirit energy in the first place.


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Also pretty sure the whole concept still holds up considering the first thing Aizen (a.k.a the 2nd/3rd strongest in the series) did was a throwback to how he could eviscerate others just by contact with his reiatsu. Something that no shinigami besides possibly Bankai Yama can achieve.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 24, 2016)

Remind me again, please: How do we know that EoS Aizen is stronger than his monster form? 'cause the only piece of "evidence" I recall is Shunsui feeling that chair-Aizen hadn't gotten weaker, but stronger. If that's the only evidence then I call bullshit, considering nobody other than Ichigo ever had the ability to sense Monster Aizen's reiatsu in the first place.
Then again I missed the series' biggest DC feat just a couple of posts ago, so fuck if I know.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

Literally the first or second smartest person in the verse suggested Aizen's power had increased.


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## SSBMonado (Sep 24, 2016)

It doesn't matter how smart he is when he could never have sensed Monster Aizen's reiatsu to get a basis for the comparison. Intellect be damned, if anyone other than Ichigo made that claim, then the most it could possibly mean is that Aizen had gotten stronger compared to when he first got strapped to that chair.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

That's cool, too bad the assertion was made directly after everyone in the vicinity had just gotten a close up demonstration of Aizen's strength.

Bonus points, his kurohitsugi even resembled his butterfly form's, except the former's was unchanted.


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Pretty sure Urahara's basis was from analyzing the scope of the Kido. Something Aizen needed to chant to accomplish the same pre-skip.

I mean, this being asides from how fucking retarded it is to think the smartest character in the series would make a statement without any basis whatsoever and throw clear context right out the window

edit:


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 24, 2016)

Just look at the difference between Butterfly and chair Aizen's Kurohitsugo. Butterfly Aizen's was a good deal smaller and yet he had to use the full incantation to even make it that big. Aizen was definitely stronger EoS than he was before the timeskip


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


>


If you were going to say everything I was going to, you should have either posted after me or saved me the time by posting much earlier. Your fault tbh


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

It's my fault that you're slow?


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## Kenpachi TZ (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> we don't know if the research institute's specialized devices are necessarily subject to the same limitations of perception as physical beings.



The SRDI had existed for a century prior to the start of Bleach. The only spirit detection tool we've seen in action is the Hollow alert system with the Spirit Cellphones.

With over 100 years of tech development, you'd expect that it would outperform physical beings given that is this device's primary function, wouldn't you?

... It's slower than 's or 's senses. Uryuu implies it's a crutch for shitty sensors.  and Byakuya imply that *someone* did pick up Yhwach's reiatsu. That's not entirely unreasonable when you consider other sensing feats in Bleach.



Regicide said:


> Given Mayuri eventually built restraints for Aizen that confined his reiatsu according to a range (probably hard to design and utilize if you can't measure what it's made to limit) and that, if I recall, these are the same guys in charge of monitoring the overall flow of souls?
> 
> I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here.



There is a natural stone that blocks reiatsu. All that means is Mayuri could craft restraints out of it.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> The SRDI had existed for a century prior to the start of Bleach. The only spirit detection tool we've seen in action is the Hollow alert system with the Spirit Cellphones.
> 
> With over 100 years of tech development, you'd expect that it would outperform physical beings given that is this device's primary function, wouldn't you?
> 
> ... It's slower than 's or 's senses. Uryuu implies it's a crutch for shitty sensors.  and Byakuya imply that *someone* did pick up Yhwach's reiatsu. That's not entirely unreasonable when you consider other sensing feats in Bleach.


..I haven't the slightest idea why you're comparing handheld devices to dedicated machines they have in the lab, or why you think the cellphones make up both the entirety and the pinnacle of their technology.

Just off the top of my head, both the penultimate chapter and the initial Wandenreich invasion have them making use of such things, so your assertion is lost on me.


Kenpachi TZ said:


> There is a natural stone that blocks reiatsu. All that means is Mayuri could craft restraints out of it.


Except we see outright that the effect is freely and remotely adjustable, it's not merely the innate properties of shackles with arbitrary composition restricting Aizen.

..Nor would it be a notable accomplishment on Mayuri's part if it came down to handcuffing the prick with sekkiseki.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 24, 2016)

I think is clear that post royal guard Shikai Ichigo isn't Dangai level while Bankai should be.

Also,im pretty sure that Ichigo regained his Quincy and Hollow powers when his past got retcon'd and the damages undone with reality warping.

Since he had powers at all,and later when on to pass them to his kid wich has a sword with a handle with the form of the first Bankai,that was aparently materialized out of nowhere.

And i doubt you can scale the CT for DC and durability given how it works.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

No, he definitely lost the quincy and hollow powers.

The only thing that was rejected was the sword being broken.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 24, 2016)

Without them he woulnd't have Bankai,nor GT,since his Shinigami powers=Hollow power.

Ywach himself implied that the blade that cut him was OMZ.

And his son has Quincy power and a similar sword,the same way Zangetsu is similar to Engetsu.

Bankai is bringing the Zan spirit to the real world trough the Asauchi,no Hollow no Zanpakuto spirits,no Bankai.


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## Sablés (Sep 24, 2016)

Regicide said:


> No, he definitely lost the quincy and hollow powers.
> 
> The only thing that was rejected was the sword being broken.


Sword = Hollow/Shinigami powers

Facebook created a pocket timeline in the past where Ichigo still kept his powers.


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## Regicide (Sep 24, 2016)

Last I checked, the hollow powers are just part of the whole that comprises up his shinigami powers, like how Chad's face isn't literally the ground despite the two being so deeply connected

Regardless, I see no reason why Facebook creating a past where the future of Ichigo's sword was never fucked with is connected with him keeping his powers

He doesn't lose them because the sword's broken, and conversely, doesn't have them because it's not; the two are separate events, and all Facebook ever talks about is the sword's history


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 24, 2016)

Ichigo keeps his Bankai wich can't be done without a Zanpakuto Spirit that in his case is the Hollow,then later on pass Quincy powers to his kid (since it made a sword out of nowhere)  that also has a design similar to his first Bankai.

Tsukishima changed Ichigo's past since it was his body what he cut,not specifying the amount of changes isn't a problem since we know he had to rewrite the Ywach fight from a point that preceded the powers beig stolen and that if needed he can alter the entire life of the target,then they used Orihime's power to negate events wich can restore objects to their state during any point of its existance,in this case reverting the sword to this past.

And the spirits are also supossed to live in the sword anyway when they aren't interacting with the owner in their inner world,at least i remember Hitsugaya talking to the blade when his Bankai was stolen.


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## Jag77 (Sep 25, 2016)

Ichigo didn't lose his Hollow and Quincy powers via pure logic. 

Not only is whether or not Tsukishima's book of the end changing that absorption part of his past up to debate (Lol) 

But Ichigo's Zanpakuto spirits are literally Hichigo and the Old man. 

So without his Hollow and Quincy powers Ichigo wouldn't have a Zanpakuto due to no Zanpakuto spirit. It would just be some normal blade he swings around. 

So Bleach was rushed to all hell so much that Kubo pretty much unintentionally made that absorbing scene moot.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Sep 25, 2016)

Regicide said:


> ..I haven't the slightest idea why you're comparing handheld devices to dedicated machines they have in the lab, or why you think the cellphones make up both the entirety and the pinnacle of their technology.
> 
> Just off the top of my head, both the penultimate chapter and the initial Wandenreich invasion have them making use of such things, so your assertion is lost on me.



Those handheld devices communicate with Soul Society. The only known location with reiatsu detection technology is Soul Society.

Therefore, if Urahara and Uryuu are sensing reiatsu disturbances faster than the handheld device hooked to the dedicated machines, why would we assume they could perform better than people?

Not to mention, you _*entirely*_ ignore that Soi-Fon and Byakuya found Yhwach's reiatsu just as quickly as Mayuri's technology through *manpower*.

The only explicit advantage the machines have is the ability to monitor a wider area without distractions. There's nothing suggesting they could detect transcendence where physical beings could not.



Regicide said:


> Except we see outright that the effect is freely and remotely adjustable, it's not merely the innate properties of shackles with arbitrary composition restricting Aizen.
> 
> ..Nor would it be a notable accomplishment on Mayuri's part if it came down to handcuffing the prick with sekkiseki.



I stand corrected.


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## Regicide (Sep 25, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Those handheld devices communicate with Soul Society. The only known location with reiatsu detection technology is Soul Society.
> 
> Therefore, if Urahara and Uryuu are sensing reiatsu disturbances faster than the handheld device hooked to the dedicated machines, why would we assume they could perform better than people?


Please listen to what you're saying and realize, not only is your comparison retarded, that you're shooting yourself in the foot.


Kenpachi TZ said:


> Not to mention, you _*entirely*_ ignore that Soi-Fon and Byakuya found Yhwach's reiatsu just as quickly as Mayuri's technology through *manpower*.


Or, the more sensible scenario, they picked up on Mayuri's findings.

At any rate, this is all not entirely relevant because the technology suggestion is just one explanation anyways (albeit one I can back up). Given the choice, I'm gonna roll with shit that doesn't require me to contradict previously established plot points (i.e, that transcendence is a thing and so is being imperceptible).

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Sablés (Sep 25, 2016)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Those handheld devices communicate with Soul Society. The only known location with reiatsu detection technology is Soul Society.
> 
> Therefore, if Urahara and Uryuu are sensing reiatsu disturbances faster than the handheld device hooked to the dedicated machines, why would we assume they could perform better than people?
> 
> ...



Flawed comparison

Byakuya's the GOAT so its perfectly natural he'd be capable of sensing Yhwach's reiatsu far better than anything Mayuri can conceive.

SoFail just tagged along to do fuck all as usual.


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 25, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Byakuya's the GOAT



the only thing Byakuya is great at

is being a blood stain

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Sep 25, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> the only thing Byakuya is great at
> 
> is being a blood stain



he even pulls that off magnificently tbh. nothing he can't do


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 25, 2016)

Sablés said:


> nothing he can't do



except be a decent character


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## Sablés (Sep 25, 2016)

DarkTorrent said:


> except be a decent character


since chapter 1


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## Regicide (Sep 25, 2016)

Sablés said:


> he even pulls that off magnificently tbh. nothing he can't do


Except bring his waifu back to life


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## Sablés (Sep 25, 2016)

Regicide said:


> Except bring his waifu back to life


He's better off single anyway

Deserves a better bish than some Rukia clone too


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 25, 2016)

Sablés said:


> since chapter 1



he was in chapter 1? 

oh, the blood stain

no wonder it looked so familiar


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## Kaaant (Sep 25, 2016)

Gonna mention for the Nth time that a mere clone of Hashirama was gonna redirect Obito's Juubi Dama whilst the original was busy fighting Madara. Plus was pretty much the biggest contributor to the Hokage barrier that contained the Juubi Dama going off. 

Also worth noting Hashirama had several Bijuu under his control before giving them away.


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## drew8324 (Sep 26, 2016)

How tf is Hashi country level? He took a day to destroy a valley with Nadara he is like island level MOST. And he can't even do that with one attack and them wood pieces is slow compared to ichigo dangi. Ichigo has better CqC but can you guys HONESTLY see a nsruto character going against a bleach character CQC its proven that high tier Bleach characters are WAY faster in agility like hashi isn't even fast he has wood same with Naruto.


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## John Wayne (Sep 26, 2016)

He scales to Deva Pain who's < 8 tailed kyuubi, While Hashirama is > Prime 9 tailed Kyuubi.

Also "way faster in agility"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MusubiKazesaru (Sep 26, 2016)

Even without that he's up there with BM Naruto who has a few small country feats.


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## Divell (Sep 27, 2016)

Just got one problem with all the comments. Hashirama has a hugely, spotable weak point. While he controls his biggest statue he himself is very much vulnerable to direct attacks. Nothing stops Ichigo (any version from SS in front) to blitz Hashirama. Nothing implies Dangai Ichigo to not being able to kill him with a shockwave alone. As for Hachirama's strongest statue's lv. I very much doubt he is scalable to CT, just because 8 tailed Kyuubi broke from it doesn't mean Kyuubi himself is scalable to it, when 

He broke from a small part of it and the only thing he gets from that feat is what he broke, nothing more, nothing else. 
That statue does is country because scaling from Madara's Majestic Attire Susano'o. That's all. And while this Ichigo by feats is just island lv at most, bia scaling he should be more than scalable to Yhwach's casual dc and Yamamoto's Bankai.
All that, superior speed advantage in every way and Mugetsu and Dangai Ichigo/Transcendental Ichigo is more than capable of winning this with little problem.


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## Divell (Sep 27, 2016)

Regicide said:


> My exact understanding of Detergent's soul physics is admittedly rusty, but I'd.. not use that as a counterexample, given transcendence can be tuned up or down, in addition to the fact we don't know if the research institute's specialized devices are necessarily subject to the same limitations of perception as physical beings.
> 
> Given Mayuri eventually built restraints for Aizen that confined his reiatsu according to a range (probably hard to design and utilize if you can't measure what it's made to limit) and that, if I recall, these are the same guys in charge of monitoring the overall flow of souls?
> 
> I'd give them the benefit of the doubt here.


Trascendental is technically a boost, making Aizen another race when he obtained that power. The essence of that power up is technically the same as the Vizard with Hollow mask but on steroids. We have seen people in Bleach obtaining those lvs of power with no problem using other methods
ex: Kenpachi's Bankai and probably Jugram though his shockwave isn't that impressive with others we have seen by now, but considering it was very casual is hard to say.
As for Reiatsu shit, only Ichigo could feel it because he was the same as Aizen, someone who had broke the boundaries between Hollow and Shinigami naturally (Hogyoku only gives a push, anything it has done is something people could have obtained on their own using other methods). The difference between Ichigo and Aizen is the second was 2 races and the first one everything else.


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 27, 2016)

Ichigo is not fast enough to blitz. Also Hashirama is country level with or without CT scaling


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 27, 2016)

Given the fact that hashirama can stop madara's susanoo swords and can perform justu without using handseal and can create wooden barriers that can tank kurama bijjudama i dont see ichigo killing him with a shockwave or any getsuga tenshou except mugestu


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## Revan Reborn (Sep 27, 2016)

ACE NITRO said:


> Given the fact that hashirama can stop madara's susanoo swords and can perform justu without using handseal and can create wooden barriers that can tank kurama bijjudama i dont see ichigo killing him with a shockwave or any getsuga tenshou except mugestu



How many teratons has it tanked.


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## Divell (Sep 27, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> Ichigo is not fast enough to blitz. Also Hashirama is country level with or without CT scaling


Dangai is. Mach 4 or 5 digits with really low end calcs and Hashirama is 3 digits with high end calcs. Dangai can blitz before Hashirama summons the statue.



ACE NITRO said:


> Given the fact that hashirama can stop madara's susanoo swords and can perform justu without using hand seal and can create wooden barriers that can tank kurama bijjudama i dont see ichigo killing him with a shockwave or any getsuga tenshou except mugestu


Is from madara and Kyuubi's Bijuu dama that I'm saying he scales to. But no, Hashirama himself directly doesn't tank shit. And if you have follow the endurance feats for Naruto characters, anybody that isn't Kaguya can't even be stabbed without pretty much dying. And no, I'm not saying just because Naruto and Sasuke.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## John Wayne (Sep 27, 2016)

Where is this 5 digit mach Dangai Ichigo calc?


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 27, 2016)

[/QUOTE]
Is from madara and Kyuubi's Bijuu dama that I'm saying he scales to. But no, Hashirama himself directly doesn't tank shit. And if you have follow the endurance feats for Naruto characters, anybody that isn't Kaguya can't even be stabbed without pretty much dying. And no, I'm not saying just because Naruto and Sasuke.[/QUOTE] 
It will take more than stabbing hashirama with a sword to kill him because he has regen on par with that of tsunade madara said so himself


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 27, 2016)

slayedigneel said:


> How many teratons has it tanked.


The smallest bijjudama created by hachibi was moutain level prime kurama's bijjudama should be alot stronger than that


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 27, 2016)

Dangai Ichigo does not scale to Soul King Yhwach


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## LazyWaka (Sep 27, 2016)

100% Kurama's casual bijuudama was calced at just over a teraton iirc and hashirama's statue took a barrage of them. So it "leaving him open to attacks" is BS.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Revan Reborn (Sep 27, 2016)

ACE NITRO said:


> The smallest bijjudama created by hachibi was moutain level prime kurama's bijjudama should be alot stronger than that



Needs to be close to 440 teratons.


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## Shining Force (Sep 27, 2016)

Only Final-Battle Ichigo is potentially scalable to 440Tt though, unless you are suggesting DI is stronger than YH.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 27, 2016)

Dangai and EoS are more or less the same,with Dangai having the FGT option.


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## Revan Reborn (Sep 27, 2016)

FGT is probably>EOS Ichigo due to it's all in one attack.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 27, 2016)

Yeah but is completely unquantifiable.

Ink stain level+

Which may be the reason Kubo didn't use it against Ywach ink spill powers,the whole fucking page would be black with some eyes drawn here and there

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

ACE NITRO said:


> It will take more than stabbing hashirama with a sword to kill him because he has regen on par with that of tsunade madara said so himself


Can he regenerate without a head, without a heart, when cutted in half. He can literally vaporize him in a movement. That's just how fucking stronger than he is.



ayyfisk said:


> Dangai Ichigo does not scale to Soul King Yhwach


He is stronger than EoS Aizen, who was slightly damage by his own Kurohitsugi, which Ichigo bitchslapped.



LazyWaka said:


> 100% Kurama's casual bijuudama was calced at just over a teraton iirc and hashirama's statue took a barrage of them. So it "leaving him open to attacks" is BS.


No, Hashiraka himself is open to attacks, just as Madara was when riding the Juubi, and when he was to Kyuubi, etc, etc, etc. We see this in the fight with Kyuubi and Madara, where to tank the Bijuu dama he needed to hide himself insdie the statue, but to keep fighting he needs to be outside. Yes, they can be stronger, yes, they can have more dc, but only in their stronger form that they manipulate, they are not Megazords, Perfect Susano'o or direct increase on strength, they themself are still vulnerable to attacks. And Ichigo is more than scalable to Yhwach's casual teratons.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Yeah but is completely unquantifiable.
> 
> Ink stain level+
> 
> Which may be the reason Kubo didn't use it against Ywach ink spill powers,the whole fucking page would be black with some eyes drawn here and there


That would be Kubo's wet dream.


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 28, 2016)

Divell said:


> Can he regenerate without a head, without a heart, when cutted in half. He can literally vaporize him in a movement. That's just how fucking stronger than he is.
> 
> 
> He is stronger than EoS Aizen, who was slightly damage by his own Kurohitsugi, which Ichigo bitchslapped.
> ...


You mean thats how weak ichigo is compared to base hashirama who was casually treating country busting bijjudama like baseballs and ichigo is not even fast enough to attack hashirama once he brings out the thousand hands technique not to mention the deity gates which was able to hold down the ten tails and we both know in a fight between ichigo and the ten talis the ten tails recks ichigo. Not mention the city level wood dragon which is able drain ichigo's reaistu. Just face it hashirama is more versatile than ichigo, where ichigo is only capable of spamming one attack that hashirama is more than capable dodging or blocking or tanking more times than not


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

ACE NITRO said:


> You mean thats how weak ichigo is compared to base hashirama who was casually treating country busting bijjudama like baseballs and ichigo is not even fast enough to attack hashirama once he brings out the thousand hands technique not to mention the deity gates which was able to hold down the ten tails and we both know in a fight between ichigo and the ten talis the ten tails recks ichigo. Not mention the city level wood dragon which is able drain ichigo's reaistu. Just face it hashirama is more versatile than ichigo, where ichigo is only capable of spamming one attack that hashirama is more than capable dodging or blocking or tanking more times than not


Art thou mad? Base Hashirama, BASE, is below Sage Mode Naruto, Dangai Ichigo is strong enough to blow mountains away with just his air pressure, and easily scales to both Kenpachi and Yhwach, and deffinetely scales to Yamamoto's Bankai. And no, those are his constructs, not himself, and yes, Dangai Ichigo, and basically most middle to high tiers in Bleach can literally blitz Hashirama, Dangai Ichigo, wouldn't just blitz the crap out of Hashirama, he can dance, go home, make some coffee, ask Aizen for some tea, take a shit, fuck Orihime and be back to blitz Hashirama. The difference in speed is huge considering while Naruto characters have millisecond reaction timing, current Shikai Ichigo, who isn't that much more stronger than the likes of Shunsui can blitz at microseconds.


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 28, 2016)

We are talking about the same base hashirama right? The one capable of outrunning a bijjudama or fast enough to intetcept one in mid flight. With hashirama's sage mode sensing madara was able to not only dogde tobirama's ftg but counter it while laughing at him. When madara got hashirama's senjustu he was confident enough to take on nine bijuu and take a beating from them and not only did he laugh about it he praised hashirama's regen and we all know hashirama's body is more durable than madara's.


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 28, 2016)

Divell said:


> He is stronger than EoS Aizen, who was slightly damage by his own Kurohitsugi, which Ichigo bitchslapped.




How do you know that? EOS Aizen without chair> Chairzen > Monster Aizen. How do you know Dangai Ichigo is stronger than EOS Aizen, just because he was alot stronger than Monster Aizen?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> How do you know that? EOS Aizen without chair> Chairzen > Monster Aizen. How do you know Dangai Ichigo is stronger than EOS Aizen, just because he was alot stronger than Monster Aizen?


The chair doesn't lower his power lv. And Dangai Ichigo was a lot more powerful than monster Aizen as well.


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 28, 2016)

I know, he got stronger while on the chair


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

ayyfisk said:


> I know, he got stronger while on the chair


You are trolling right?


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 28, 2016)

Divell said:


> You are trolling right?


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## Divell (Sep 28, 2016)

Oh you meant that. Yes, he got stronger, but was still being damaged by his own Kurohitsugi, Ichigo no sells that thing while in Dangai.


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## Kaaant (Sep 29, 2016)

Hashirama is probably continent level due to a few factors.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 29, 2016)

Without his wood constructs he really isn't impressing,Jubito would have OHK him if not an edo.

The constructs aren't gonna work correctly against a smaller faster target.


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## LazyWaka (Sep 29, 2016)

Um, how? The only characters at that level are the Juubi and up.


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## Sablés (Sep 29, 2016)

@LazyWaka @DarkTorrent
What's going on here?


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## Kaaant (Sep 29, 2016)

LazyWaka said:


> Um, how? The only characters at that level are the Juubi and up.



Because his jukai koutan was going to deflect the Juubi Dama all the way towards the river, validated because he forced Obito to put up his own barrier to prevent it, plus was the largest contributor towards the barrier that withstood one going off. And this was even without him busting out SSJ. 

Important to note that content level Juubi was a few forms back, wasn't it?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 29, 2016)

Kaaant said:


> Because his jukai koutan was going to deflect the Juubi Dama all the way towards the river, validated because he forced Obito to put up his own barrier to prevent it, plus was the largest contributor towards the barrier that withstood one going off. And this was even without him busting out SSJ.
> 
> Important to note that content level Juubi was a few forms back, wasn't it?


wrong. He needed the help of the entire alliance to redirect the juubi dama. The only solo things he has that can withstand a juubi dama is the Sage Gates, he cant make the 4 flames barrier on his own. Any of his other techniques would be vaporized by a god tier like juubito, i mean fuck Mindless Juubito busted like 10 of his Sage Gates stacked on top of each other just by standing up, but you wanna say Jukai Koutan can redirect a juubi dama?


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## Kaaant (Sep 29, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> wrong. He needed the help of the entire alliance to redirect the juubi dama. The only solo things he has that can withstand a juubi dama is the Sage Gates, he cant make the 4 flames barrier on his own. Any of his other techniques would be vaporized by a god tier like juubito, i mean fuck Mindless Juubito busted like 10 of his Sage Gates stacked on top of each other just by standing up, but you wanna say Jukai Koutan can redirect a juubi dama?



Where did he need the alliance's help? He still contributed >1/4th the energy to a technique that contained the Juubi Dama, and could maintain it whilst him and two other Hokage could perform techniques at the same time. Hashirama gave Obito cause to take preventative measures despite him focusing the majority of his power holding off Madara whilst also being nerfed as an edo, where his own brother whilst maintaining the barrier was "in a sorry state" by cutting his power into thirds. 

And he didn't even employ SSJ, which was handling 100% Kyuubi like a fucking hotdog compared the eight tails who to my memory was holding back a gimped Juubi Dama. 

So like I asked, continent level Juubi was several forms back, was it or wasn't it?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 29, 2016)

Kaaant said:


> Where did he need the alliance's help? He still contributed >1/4th the energy to a technique that contained the Juubi Dama, and could maintain it whilst him and two other Hokage could perform techniques at the same time. Hashirama gave Obito cause to take preventative measures despite him focusing the majority of his power holding off Madara whilst also being nerfed as an edo, where his own brother whilst maintaining the barrier was "in a sorry state" by cutting his power into thirds.
> 
> And he didn't even employ SSJ, which was handling 100% Kyuubi like a fucking hotdog compared the eight tails who to my memory was holding back a gimped Juubi Dama.
> 
> So like I asked, continent level Juubi was several forms back, was it or wasn't it?


Hashirama said that they needed to work together to redirect the juubi dama. He didnt say he was gonna do it alone

SSJ isnt even stated to be his strongest technique, and by feats it isnt. Sage gates held down and tanked a juubi dama, which is his best feat _*by far. *_Hachibi only held back the giant juubi dama for a second or two and the superior Kurama Avatar got 6-7 of its tails blasted away by the far weaker laser shit from V1 Juubi.


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## Akira1993 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hashirama is overall more impressive than Ichigo in DC.
Dunno about their respective speed.


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## Divell (Sep 30, 2016)

ACE NITRO said:


> We are talking about the same base hashirama right? The one capable of outrunning a bijjudama or fast enough to intetcept one in mid flight. With hashirama's sage mode sensing madara was able to not only dogde tobirama's ftg but counter it while laughing at him. When madara got hashirama's senjustu he was confident enough to take on nine bijuu and take a beating from them and not only did he laugh about it he praised hashirama's regen and we all know hashirama's body is more durable than madara's.


Yes, we are talking about the same Hashirama, who is been calced at Mach 400, the same Hashirama that scales to this Madara, and the same Hashirama that has the power to subdue the Bijuu. And confidence in taking on someone isn't worth anything, specially when Bleach and Naruto characters are involved. Ulquiorra had confident he could take on Hollow Ichigo, Pain was confident he could take Ichigo down no problem, Sasuke was confident he could kill Itachi no problem, Aizen was confident in being stronger than Ichigo, etc, etc, etc. And Bijuu Bomb, 

Fragor,

both are equally shit to this two characters.



Ayy lmao said:


> link?


When Aizen used his Kurohitsugi, you can clearly see marks all over Aizen as he was damaged by his Kuroshitsugi,

while Ichigo pimpslap it,



Kaaant said:


> Hashirama is probably continent level due to a few factors.


I wanna hear that one. And Hashirama isn't, his constructs "would be".



Akira1993 said:


> Hashirama is overall more impressive than Ichigo in DC.
> Dunno about their respective speed.


Ichigo can pee, shit, kill him 10 times over, and skull fuck him, before Hashirama notices Ichigo moved.



SSBMonado said:


> Yeah Yourwhack sure likes to hear himself speak, but how reliable is he, really? *He's haxed to hell, but his quantifiable stats don't seem that great.* As far as I recall, the most impressive thing he ever did was slice Yamamoto in two. And before he did that, he still felt the need to steal Yama's bankai.
> 
> @muffin
> Well therein lies the rub, doesn't it? Byakuya could feel Ichigo's reiatsu. Doesn't the fact that other people could still sense him confirm that he isn't on the same level as his Dengai version?
> ... and yeah, there's the Askin thing. Dengai Ichigo most certainly could have cut him into confetti in an instant.


Forgive me, but are you speaking of the same Yhwach that cut Yamamoto in half?

the same Yhwach that no-sells Post Royal Palace Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou, which destroys a huge portion of the Soul Palace,

and of course, we can forget, the same Yhwach that destroyed the Soul Palace,

Are we talking about that Yhwach? Just so we're clear, We're not saying  Ichigo is equal in power to . We're saying that , who is superior to , is equal or superior to Dangai Ichigo. Just so we are clear, transcendentalism is simply another power up, is just like Hollowfication, but on steroids. Is the perfect combination between 2 or more races into one being, in Ichigo's case, when combining with his Zanpakutou he finally was able to realize his Bankai's true power and because of combining with it, he then became a transcendental stronger than Aizen, but he simply was using his Shinigami powers, nothing like  who combined his Hollow and Shinigami powers. Aizen who had two,  at the end of the Deicide miniarc is now , words by Urahara not mine, and . The same Yhwach, who got killed twice by current Bankai Ichigo while worn out. And he himself had claimed that Bankai Ichigo with the Hollow form was powerful enough that he needed to break it.


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 30, 2016)

Sablés said:


> What's going on here?



appearance of symptoms that indicate this thread will likely need to get closed soon

but really, the only thing that Hashirama has that can be pegged at continent level are his gates


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 30, 2016)

There's also the thing with the Jubidamas being bombs and not energy blast,so palming them away =/= its explosive force,Nardo when he first got mock super saiyan form smacked like 5 of them.


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## shade0180 (Sep 30, 2016)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Nardo when he first got mock super saiyan form smacked like 5 of them.


He also kind of tank a charged combined 8 of them just after...


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 30, 2016)

shade0180 said:


> combined



When?
He did matched five with his own tho,not that it changes that the streng they fly withisn't the same they explode with.


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 30, 2016)

pretty sure any form of Juubi is continent level,


Divell said:


> When Aizen used his Kurohitsugi, you can clearly see marks all over Aizen as he was damaged by his Kuroshitsugi,


1st, it doesn't really look like scratches and even if it was, it was just his clothes, not his face or any of his body parts

2nd, the kuroshitsugi he used on his chair is much stronger than the one he used on Ichigo, as chairzen is stronger than Monster Aizen, so Ichigo being unhurt doesn't prove anything.

Also it wasn't Monster Aizen that used the kuroshitsugi on Ichigo, it was just regular Butterflaizen. EOS Aizen without Chair>Chairzen>Monster Aizen> Butterflaizen. Monster Aizen managed to damage ichigo's arm to the point he couldn't use it, Butterflaizen couldn't do anything to hurt him.

You can't prove Dangai Ichigo> EOS Aizen.


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## Shining Force (Sep 30, 2016)

Scaling Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen to their EoS selves and Yhwach is still highly contested (mainly due to current Ichigo having better control over his powers). They could be scaled from Shikai Kenpachi and possibly Bankai Yama, but scaling directly from post-absorption Yhwach is controversial. 

So better lock this thread or OP should change to EoS Ichigo so that we don't need to argue about off-topic Dangai vs EoS case.


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## Divell (Sep 30, 2016)

Shining Force said:


> Scaling Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen to their EoS selves and Yhwach is still highly contested (mainly due to current Ichigo having better control over his powers). They could be scaled from Shikai Kenpachi and possibly Bankai Yama, but scaling directly from post-absorption Yhwach is controversial.
> 
> So better lock this thread or OP should change to EoS Ichigo so that we don't need to argue about off-topic Dangai vs EoS case.


Considering how casual Yhwach's feat was I doubt it, and the power is still right there being almost the same.

And is not off-topic if we are arguing how strong each of them is.


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## Divell (Sep 30, 2016)

Ayy lmao said:


> pretty sure any form of Juubi is continent level,
> 
> 1st, it doesn't really look like scratches and even if it was, it was just his clothes, not his face or any of his body parts
> 
> ...


Just so we are clear here, Dangai Ichigo could still move his arm, Aizen was once again wrong when talking about that Ichigo. Third, I'm not saying he necessarily need to be stronger, but if I need to, Dangai Ichigo isn't that much below from Aizen, and Aizen was a fly for the same Yhwach and EoS could turn into liquid.


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## Ayy lmao (Sep 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Just so we are clear here, Dangai Ichigo could still move his arm, Aizen was once again wrong when talking about that Ichigo. Third, I'm not saying he necessarily need to be stronger, but if I need to, Dangai Ichigo isn't that much below from Aizen, and Aizen was a fly for the same Yhwach and EoS could turn into liquid.



Sure , he might've been able to move his arm, but still it got burned badly proving Monster Aizen>>> Butterflaizen.

 we can't scale  Dangai Ichigo to EOS Aizen, because we don't know how Dangai Ichigo compares to EOS Aizen. He might be stronger, he might be equal or he might be weaker.


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## Kaaant (Sep 30, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Hashirama said that they needed to work together to redirect the juubi dama. He didnt say he was gonna do it alone
> 
> SSJ isnt even stated to be his strongest technique, and by feats it isnt. Sage gates held down and tanked a juubi dama, which is his best feat _*by far. *_Hachibi only held back the giant juubi dama for a second or two and the superior Kurama Avatar got 6-7 of its tails blasted away by the far weaker laser shit from V1 Juubi.



He said he was gonna use Jukai Koutan to deflect at least two of them, whilst tobirama and minato teleported the other two, and obito literally directly responds to Hashirama saying "I won't let you". Like I already said, Hashirama was focusing most of his power on madara, he wasn't at full power regardless of that, and wasn't using his more powerful techniques. Madara after being revived was able to blow out of the sage gates, they aren't stronger than SSJ.

Still provided the majority of the energy to a technique that contained one going off, that was several forms above the one that is continent level. 

I think Shikamaru even compares Obito's one in power to the one the hokage made or something stupid like that


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 30, 2016)

Kaaant said:


> He said he was gonna use Jukai Koutan to deflect at least two of them, whilst tobirama and minato teleported the other two, and obito literally directly responds to Hashirama saying "I won't let you". Like I already said, Hashirama was focusing most of his power on madara, he wasn't at full power regardless of that, and wasn't using his more powerful techniques. Madara after being revived was able to blow out of the sage gates, they aren't stronger than SSJ.
> 
> Still provided the majority of the energy to a technique that contained one going off, that was several forms above the one that is continent level.
> 
> I think Shikamaru even compares Obito's one in power to the one the hokage made or something stupid like that


So youre saying base Hashi clone with barely any of his power is > Sage Hashi using gates? Because Mindless Juubito turned the gates into dust by standing up and V2 Juubito specifically trying to kill everyone with 4 juubi dama means that he was fucking around with even less power than super casual shit from his mindless self? sure rationalize that bullshit if you want but its not gonna fly

Youre literally saying that a clone with a small amount of his power can do something that his SM self putting forth all his power cant.

V2 Juubito > Mindless Juubito >> SM Hashi > Base Hashi


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## ACE NITRO (Sep 30, 2016)

Divell said:


> Yes, we are talking about the same Hashirama, who is been calced at Mach 400, the same Hashirama that scales to this Madara, and the same Hashirama that has the power to subdue the Bijuu. And confidence in taking on someone isn't worth anything, specially when Bleach and Naruto characters are involved. Ulquiorra had confident he could take on Hollow Ichigo, Pain was confident he could take Ichigo down no problem, Sasuke was confident he could kill Itachi no problem, Aizen was confident in being stronger than Ichigo, etc, etc, etc. And Bijuu Bomb,
> 
> Fragor,
> 
> ...


I have never seen anybody wank bleach as much as you do except in mvc the fragor that burnt dangai ichigo arms was barely up to city level so don't try to compare the two explosions cause the kurama's bijjudama trumps fragor any given day. The major reason you think hashirama will lose to ichigo is because he fights with constructs and summon's but that actually what will make him win against ichigo because he doesn't have to fight ichigo directly rather he will have his summon's and constructs do it for him and if by any God forsaken reason you think ichigo can walk out of barrage of the thousand hands technique, the wood human that can match the perfect susanoo in strenght, the wood dragon that can drain ichigo's reaistu, the deity gates which can hold down the ten tails and tank a jubbidama, the jukai kotan, the wood explusion technique that can tank a bijjudama point blank then prove it to me rather than typing complete bs


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## Divell (Sep 30, 2016)

Ayy lmao said:


> Sure , he might've been able to move his arm, but still it got burned badly proving Monster Aizen>>> Butterflaizen.
> 
> we can't scale  Dangai Ichigo to EOS Aizen, because we don't know how Dangai Ichigo compares to EOS Aizen. He might be stronger, he might be equal or he might be weaker.


Let me try to explain, Dangai Ichigo is the same boost of power Ichigo's Bankai would to give him. Except that the difference is, EoS is boosting  Ichigo and Dangai was boosting  Ichigo. Fragor burn Dangai Ichigo's arm, while Ichigo no-sold all of butterfly's attacks, physical

and gravity attacks,

attacks that puts stress in the body, and require superior physical strength, that same Ichigo, who was burned by Aizen's attack was being attacked by a energy based attack, a heat strong enough to melt rocks and hills all around as shown in the anime,

it would be the same as what happened on Ichigo and Yhwach's first and second part, where Ichigo burn Yhwach with Getsuga 

and Yhwach burn Ichigo's arm with a unknown damage that may have been reiatsu,

yet , and . Ichigo was still completely in another league compared to any Pre Timeskip form of Aizen, for the simplest of fact that . Remember ? Add to that 15 more of those hills and that's what that Ichigo may be able to pack on his casual slash. Remember also the Ichigo that defeated Yhwach could barely stand on his own two feets. And was still above that Aizen.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 30, 2016)

I think what Drivell is trying to say is that Ichigo loses

Reactions: Funny 1


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