# Offense vs Defense: Yasaka Magatama vs Sanju Rashoman



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

First we'll use Itachi's version, then we'll use Madara's version. Orochimaru three Rashomon gates to block. What happens?


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## Bonly (Mar 7, 2013)

Hard to say for Itachi. He used it one time to help destroy CT but we don't know how much of a part it played in destroying CT. With nothing to go on really, can't say for sure whether or not Itachi's would break through a gate or not so its up to each persons own opinion own how strong it should be.

As for Madara's, he was able to get through Gaara's sand and hit the Golem while crack some parts of it. One of Orochi's gates was able to take a hit from Kiba's Garōga. So whether Madara's Yasaka can get through would depend on which has more piercing power, Garōga or Yasaka and by how much. Sadly again we hit the not even good solid feats mark which to properly tell which comes to a person's opinion on how good Yasaka will do, at least thats my take on this.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

Judging by the blast radius from Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, I am quite certain that either Yasaka no Magatama can *penetrate and destroy* its entirety.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 7, 2013)

I might mess up Sakon and Ukon's tiny gate, but there's no way either are piercing three Orochimaru gates.


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## Vice (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Judging by the blast radius from Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, I am quite certain that either Yasaka no Magatama can *penetrate and destroy* its entirety.



lol video game feats.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Judging by the blast radius from Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, I am quite certain that either Yasaka no Magatama can *penetrate and destroy* its entirety.


...wait, you're using a _non-canon video game as evidence?_


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

Vice said:


> lol video game feats.



Have you used Reanimated Itachi yet?

See for yourself, buddy!


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Have you used Reanimated Itachi yet?
> 
> See for yourself, buddy!


And its _non-canon_.


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## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2013)

Vid Game feats aren't acceptable lol.

At worst we have feats of Itachi's yagasaki billowing through cave stalagtites, and causing decent size explosions, and at best we have an attack portrayed to be on par with FRS and Bjuudama(more evidenced by Kishi's in depth side note). I think it could do serious damage to one possibly 2 in 3 tomoe single form, but it isn't getting past the second one.

Madara's might be able to breach the second considering that he got through Gaara's sand and almost made it through the golem(two stellar defenses) but I don't see it busting the third.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...wait, you're using a _non-canon video game as evidence?_



Well, Yasaka no Magatama *could have* destroyed Chibaku Tensei on its own; we aren't aware of how much damage either jutsu inflicted, however. 

Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 coincides with the anime and manga, giving us a thorough example of how much power such techniques boast.


The blast was fucking enormous!


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## Vice (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Well, Yasaka no Magatama *could have* destroyed Chibaku Tensei on its own



Proof           ?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

Vice said:


> Proof           ?



There isn't any indefinite proof that states otherwise. 

Either of the three techniques could have destroyed its core.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi, you have no proof that Yasaka Magatama can destroy Chibaku Tensei on its own. All evidence points to Futon: Rasenshuriken and Bijudama doing the heavy lifting there.



King Itachi said:


> There isn't any indefinite proof that states otherwise.
> 
> Either of the three techniques could have destroyed its core.


...Itachi's Yasaka Magatama's best destructive feat in the manga, where its compared to explosive tags.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> King Itachi, you have no proof that Yasaka Magatama can destroy Chibaku Tensei on its own. All evidence points to Futon: Rasenshuriken and Bijudama doing the heavy lifting there.



Where is the proof that its counterparts were doing the heavy lifting?

In my opinion, any three of them can destroy the core.


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## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> King Itachi, you have no proof that Yasaka Magatama can destroy Chibaku Tensei on its own. All evidence points to Futon: Rasenshuriken and Bijudama doing the heavy lifting there.



Concerning that scene only there is no evidence to suggest that any of the 3 techniques were signifigantly weaker than the other. Kishi pulled out their strongest long range moves, and debuted the jutsu with Itachi, only using the 3 tomoe form once. He even wrote a whole side thing for the jutsu which leads me to believe the jutsu is quite strong. 

The single magatama's are assumed to be weaker, albeit allowing a larger range of impact.

Also it is very dishonest to downplay Itachi's single magatama's. They were compared *situationally* to exploding tags(which themselves have been shown to be dangerous even to the immortal duo mind you) not power wise. In both situations ITachi used exploding jutsu's to block all exit points so that Sasuke could get a thorough shot. Those Magatama's are weaker than the *3 tomoe version*, and comparing their size to the blast in the cave sealing they pack quite a punch.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...Itachi's Yasaka Magatama's best destructive feat in the manga, where its compared to explosive tags.



Your sarcasm is unbelievable...


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Where is the proof that its counterparts were doing the heavy lifting?
> 
> In my opinion, any three of them can destroy the core.


Well, the manga shows that's wrong since Yasaka Magatama beads are compared to Explosive Tags directly in the manga.



Dr. White said:


> Concerning that scene only there is no evidence to suggest that any of the 3 techniques were signifigantly weaker than the other. Kishi pulled out their strongest long range moves, and debuted the jutsu with Itachi, only using the 3 tomoe form once. He even wrote a whole side thing for the jutsu which leads me to believe the jutsu is quite strong.
> 
> The single magatama's are assumed to be weaker, albeit allowing a larger range of impact.


This is the best offensive feat of Yasaka Magatama. Nothing points to it in being the level of Futon: Rasenshuriken or Bijudama. Only...Itachi fans such as yourself assume it. And even Futon: Rasenshuriken is significantly weaker than the Bijudama too.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Well, the manga shows that's wrong since Yasaka Magatama beads are compared to Explosive Tags directly in the manga.



Yasaka no Magatama is being portrayed with a flashback, and it was undeniably acceptable within this fight; it signifies how they had previously collaborated (Itachi and Sasuke).


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## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2013)

> This is the best offensive feat of Yasaka Magatama. Nothing points to it in being the level of Futon: Rasenshuriken or Bijudama. Only...Itachi fans such as yourself assume it. And even Futon: Rasenshuriken is significantly weaker than the Bijudama too.



Not at all read the rest of my post. You are committing an equivocation fallacy by trying to use the same feats for the single Magatama's in comparison to the 3 tomoe'd version. There is a big difference between this attack which is used for multiple strikes, and this attack which is concentrated, and spinning at the same speed as Bjuudama and FRS accomplishing the same task of destroying the core. Unless you had personal talks with Kishi you have no honest way to conclude which attack did more, and until then we go by portrayal.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Not at all read the rest of my post. You are committing an equivocation fallacy by trying to use the same feats for the single Magatama's in comparison to the 3 tomoe'd version. There is a big difference between this attack which is used for multiple strikes, and this attack which is concentrated, and spinning at the same speed as Bjuudama and FRS accomplishing the same task of destroying the core. Unless you had personal talks with Kishi you have no honest way to conclude which attack did more, and until then we go by portrayal.


If three-four together individually equal an explosive tag each. Three-four together equal three-four Explosive Tags together. Significantly weaker than a Futon: Rasenshuriken and a Bijudama. Sorry, the best feat supports that Yasaka Magatama is not anywhere near as powerful as either of the two attacks launched with it and you and King Itachi only assume it due to your love of Itachi.



King Itachi said:


> Yasaka no Magatama is being portrayed with a flashback, and it was undeniably acceptable within this fight; it signifies how they had previously collaborated (Itachi and Sasuke).


Four Yasaka Magatama beads are directly compared to four Explosive Tags. All together, that means Yasaka Magatama is as strong as three explosive tags together.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Four Yasaka Magatama beads are directly compared to four Explosive Tags. All together, that means Yasaka Magatama is as strong as three explosive tags together.



You can't read between the lines, SSM12. 

They were recollecting a past occurrence, which happened to be coincidentally akin to their situation with Kabuto.


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## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> If three-four together individually equal an explosive tag each. Three-four together equal three-four Explosive Tags together. Significantly weaker than a Futon: Rasenshuriken and a Bijudama. Sorry, the best feat supports that Yasaka Magatama is not anywhere near as powerful as either of the two attacks launched with it and you and King Itachi only assume it due to your love of Itachi.
> 
> 
> Four Yasaka Magatama beads are directly compared to four Explosive Tags. All together, that means Yasaka Magatama is as strong as three explosive tags together.


You clearly are fixated and creating false comparisons in your head. Once again the comparison was situational only, the strategy allowed Itachi and Sasuke to cooperate without openly exchanging their intent. If you think Kishi was honestly *directly* comparing the power of Susano's most powerful long range technique: a jutsu along side the spiritual weapons and Kusanagi, to a couple of exploding tags: then you have honeslt let you dislike for Uchiha's gain hold of your objective analysis feats.

It is not me, it is portrayal and logic vs SSM12's poor analysis. the fact that you constantly resort to genetic fallacies, and never actually refute my claims I'm content to stop here.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> You can't read between the lines, SSM12.
> 
> They were recollecting a past occurrence, which happened to be coincidentally akin to their situation with Kabuto.





Dr. White said:


> You clearly are fixated and creating false comparisons in your head. Once again the comparison was situational only, the strategy allowed Itachi and Sasuke to cooperate without openly exchanging their intent. If you think Kishi was honestly *directly* comparing the power of Susano's most powerful long range technique: a jutsu along side the spiritual weapons and Kusanagi, to a couple of exploding tags: then you have honeslt let you dislike for Uchiha's gain hold of your objective analysis feats.
> 
> It is not me, it is portrayal and logic vs SSM12's poor analysis. the fact that you constantly resort to genetic fallacies, and never actually refute my claims I'm content to stop here.


Read between the lines: You mean the pro-Itachi side that wanks to him over and over and over again. Kishimoto himself showd that the power of each bead is as strong as Explosive Tag. Direct. Fucking. Comparison. That means, together, they are as strong as three of them.

You want Itachi to be able to go toe to toe in firepower with Naruto and Bee since you love him.


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## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Read between the lines: You mean the pro-Itachi side that wanks to him over and over and over again. Kishimoto himself showd that the power of each bead is as strong as Explosive Tag. Direct. Fucking. Comparison. That means, together, they are as strong as three of them.
> 
> You want Itachi to be able to go toe to toe in firepower with Naruto and Bee since you love him.



I'm not wasting anymore time explaining to you how to read past surface literature. Your correlation between the visual effects of said attacks(Magatama, and Exploding attacks) is completely irrelevant as the only thing being compared was the strategy they had used long ago. Going by your logic Sasuke's wooden arrow also = susano arrow, and the boar is a direct comparison to Kabuto's and his regen abilities and natural sensing. The logic behind your opinion on the matter is inherently flawed.

And you just don't want Itachi's feats to be comparable to Naruto's because that will allow them to objectively compare them in battle and argue their points, because you hate him and love Naruto and Uzumaki's. See how genetic fallacy logic works? We can run circles all day.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Read between the lines: You mean the pro-Itachi side that wanks to him over and over and over again. Kishimoto himself showd that the power of each bead is as strong as Explosive Tag. Direct. Fucking. Comparison. That means, together, they are as strong as three of them.
> 
> You want Itachi to be able to go toe to toe in firepower with Naruto and Bee since you love him.



Pot calling the kettle black...

Your contempt for Itachi is simply unparalleled, which compels you to contrive farcical information that isn't reasonable.

That is fucking mental, dude!


Sounds about right, SSM12?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Pot calling the kettle black...
> 
> Your contempt for Itachi is simply unparalleled, which compels you to contrive farcical information that isn't reasonable.
> 
> ...


I'm using feats in the manga. You're using blind Itachism.


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## Seon (Mar 7, 2013)

We've only seen Itachi's version with all three rings attached once. It was on the same level as a FRS and a bijuudama. 

I still think people gave chibaku tensei's core too much credit. I feel like it's the "heart" piece of any RPG boss fight. You just hit it and it dies. Lol. 

Anywho, Itachi also gave it some hype, madara chose to use it considering other abilities. It's fair to say its a decently powerful long range move. Probably goes through two gates not three though.


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## Ersa (Mar 7, 2013)

SSM12, why do you never cease to disappoint me.

You firmly believe Yasaka Magatama is explosive-tag level so you make this thread out of spite to dehype a character you hate.

As for your thread the casual Yasaka Itachi fired at SM Kabuto will indeed be stopped by the 3 Gates with ease. The charged up one he fired at FRS speeds at CT could possibly get through one or two perhaps. The gates actually have anti-ninjutsu properties so yeah.


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## Seon (Mar 7, 2013)

Rasant said:


> SSM12, why do you never cease to disappoint me.
> 
> You firmly believe Yasaka Magatama is explosive-tag level so you make this thread out of spite to dehype a character you hate.
> 
> As for your thread the casual Yasaka Itachi fired at SM Kabuto will indeed be stopped by the 3 Gates with ease. The charged up one he fired at FRS speeds at CT could possibly get through one or two perhaps. The gates actually have anti-ninjutsu properties so yeah.



It gets through 2 not three. Agreed. Still, if its comparable to FRS and a biju ball then that's something


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 7, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I'm using feats in the manga. You're using blind Itachism.



Comparing Yasaka no Magatama, a powerful weapon of Susano'o, to a mere explosive tag? That's pathetic. 

You need to learn how to interpret context, as there is a reason why they were being portrayed together.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 7, 2013)

Rasant said:


> SSM12, why do you never cease to disappoint me.
> 
> You firmly believe Yasaka Magatama is explosive-tag level so you make this thread out of spite to dehype a character you hate.
> 
> As for your thread the casual Yasaka Itachi fired at SM Kabuto will indeed be stopped by the 3 Gates with ease. The charged up one he fired at FRS speeds at CT could possibly get through one or two perhaps. The gates actually have anti-ninjutsu properties so yeah.


There is no such thing as a 'Charged' Yasaka Magatama. And fired at FRS speeds? They were all moving at the same fucking rate due to the gravity.



King Itachi said:


> Comparing Yasaka no Magatama, a powerful weapon of Susano'o, to a mere explosive tag? That's pathetic.
> 
> You need to learn how to interpret context, as there is a reason why they were being portrayed together.


Sorry, that's the best the manga showed. You just want it better since you love Itachi.


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## Seon (Mar 7, 2013)

Lol King Itachi if we go by the video games, Karin is god tier.


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## Johnny Kage (Mar 8, 2013)

Magatama is a spread attack.

Bijuudama is a pinpointed blast with compressed energy

Magatama wouldn't be able to break all Rashoumon IMO


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## Nikushimi (Mar 8, 2013)

We don't really have good feats for either side here.

Sanju Rashoumon was completely eradicted by Bijuudama. That's all we saw of it; all we really have to go by is sheer scale and our own imagination.

Yasaka no Magatama has been shown penetrating solid rock, but was stopped by the combined defenses of Gaara and Oonoki. Granted, those were _individual_ Magatama hitting in different places.

I'm willing to say that if the Magatama could be thrown with enough accuracy to strike roughly the same spot simultaneously, then I could see Madara's being able to penetrate through all three Rashoumon.

I'm doubtful Itachi would be able to manage it with only three or four Magatama, but I'll say it's at least _possible_. I just really don't think so.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And fired at FRS speeds? They were all moving at the same fucking rate due to the gravity.



I don't mean to be rude, but *how the hell* are you still throwing this idiotic nonsense around? Haven't I beaten you over the head with it enough times?

Gravity doesn't equalize speed. If you aim downward and throw a baseball and fire a cannon simultaneously from an airplane, they aren't going to be "equalized" to the same velocity. Gravity is going to accelerate them at the same rate, but they are still moving with the velocities imparted to them initially; that difference is not reconciled by gravity.

Now I'm not sure if a miracle will happen and you will actually understand what I just said to you, but the short version is "You're spouting misinformed ignorance that I've called you on in the past." The shorter version is "You're wrong and I'm negging you."

The Magatama are as fast as FRS. I don't see why you would still deny that at this point, save for being...well, you.


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## Seon (Mar 8, 2013)

Lol... Actually if you wanna go there...

You could argue that yasaka is faster because he launched it after naruto threw his. They arrived together LOL.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 8, 2013)

The panel in which Itachi threw the Magatama came before the others. However, it seems that they were all cast simultaneously, as they travelled alongside one another and converged at exactly the same time.

It's a clear indication that they all travel at the same velocity. SSM12's point is ludicrous, ignorant, and completely indefensible, as usual.


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## Seon (Mar 8, 2013)

Was it? I forgot. 

Anyways, to answer the opening statement. From what little we know about YM. It's safe to assume its as powerful as a bijuudama, in which case I see it capping off at a possible three.

Regardless, until we see anything more from it, I find it odd to have Whole topic based upon its strength... 

How can you compare something you don't know for sure? It's like having the sage of he six paths in a battledome thread. Mind you I'm not saying he isn't strong but we don't know shit about him.


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## ueharakk (Mar 8, 2013)

Yasaka magatama is definitely not on par with FRS or TBB.  We already know that FRS is not on par with TBB, so why would we say Magatama is on par with those attacks because it was used alongside them?

Case 1: Tsunade vs Mini YM 
*Spoiler*: __ 




Tsunade was able to take the miniture version at point blank, and she came out without any damage, yet at the same time she still hadn't healed from the sword wound in her stomach so she would have almost no time to heal offpanel.  If madara had decided to fire a mini rasenshuriken instead, it would have sliced right through tsunade or exploded on her and vaporized her torsoe.




Case 2: 4 Magatamas vs cave ceiling
*Spoiler*: __ 




We see when itachi fires the individual magatamas, they don't create big explosions, and they don't even blow a hole in the ceiling of the cave while juugo is able to punch through the ceiling.
Compare the collective damage/size of explosions of what the magatama's did to the cave to this, and there is no way Yasaka Magatama is in the same tier as FRS.




Case 3: FRS vs SM COR barrage
*Spoiler*: __ 




In the fight against kurama, we see that FRS both does more damage to kurama and has more concussive force than that of 25+ SM COR.  Just one SM COR can hollow out a mountain, and would have completely blown the roof of the cave away had it exploded.

Its questionable if gaara and oonoki's combined defense would be able to stand up against  let alone this.




Case 4: Chaingun Magatama vs Mother Golem
*Spoiler*: __ 




Then there is madara's far stronger version which is unable to get through gaara's and oonoki's combined sand defense while people like sandaime raikage are strong enough to explode gaara's mother defense, and a basic rasengan is strong enough to easily destroy pain's chakra rods which are far more durable than steel (based on the fact it took several ninja swords in order to shave the receiver a little).




From its current feats, I doubt it would even get through 2 of the gates as the varient used on tsunade, madara's chaingun version, and itachi's later use of it showed the technique exploding on contact with things that are less durable than a rashoumon gate.



King Itachi said:


> Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 coincides with the anime and manga, giving us a thorough example of how much power such techniques boast.
> 
> 
> The blast was fucking enormous!



According to Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, base Naruto has tsunade-level strength and can beat Tobi in base.

Video game feats should only apply if the OP allows them.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 8, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Concerning that scene only there is no evidence to suggest that any of the 3 techniques were signifigantly weaker than the other. Kishi pulled out their strongest long range moves, and debuted the jutsu with Itachi, only using the 3 tomoe form once. He even wrote a whole side thing for the jutsu which leads me to believe the jutsu is quite strong.
> 
> The single magatama's are assumed to be weaker, albeit allowing a larger range of impact.
> 
> Also it is very dishonest to downplay Itachi's single magatama's. They were compared *situationally* to exploding tags(which themselves have been shown to be dangerous even to the immortal duo mind you) not power wise. In both situations ITachi used exploding jutsu's to block all exit points so that Sasuke could get a thorough shot. Those Magatama's are weaker than the *3 tomoe version*, and comparing their size to the blast in the cave sealing they pack quite a punch.



I do believe that was a translator's note.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 8, 2013)

A bit hard to judge but imo - Itachi's 3-tomoe version would go through the 1st gate and mess up the 2nd gate badly(either stops at 2nd or barely gets through and scratches the 3rd one). Individual magatamas as used by Madara are going to dent the first Gate if not used in a rapid succession with precision. A barrage of those should be able to get through all 3 gates but not instantly - giving Orochimaru enough time to escape. Dunno why would Oro use Rashomon against it anyways. 1 Oral Rebirth should take less chakra than 3 gates.


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (Mar 8, 2013)

This a joke? Madara's Magatama coudlnt even penetrate some sand and rock. And Itachi's version is probably weaker. They are lucky if it destroys the first gate.


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## HiroshiSenju (Mar 8, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> Well, Yasaka no Magatama *could have* destroyed Chibaku Tensei on its own; we aren't aware of how much damage either jutsu inflicted, however.
> 
> *Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 coincides with the anime and manga, giving us a thorough example of how much power such techniques boast.*
> 
> ...



:sanji

You clearly haven't played any game in the Accel series, which was developed by CC2 as well, under Namco Bandai Games, and supposedly coincided with the anime and manga. Go watch Itachi's ougi and tell me that his Grand Fireball jutsu is truly an island buster...


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## Jagger (Mar 8, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> There isn't any indefinite proof that states otherwise.


Going by that logic, Hanzo was as strong as the Sannin at their prime and there's no indefinite proof that states otherwise.


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## Vergil642 (Mar 8, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And its _non-canon_.



I hate to agree with this guy but he's right, vidya is non-canon as anime. Even if that Ougi is fucking sweet.

Anyway, based on the feats we have I don't think Yasaka's Magatama is getting through two gates unless it's strung together as Itachi's was when he used it on CT. Individual tomoe don't seem to have the destructive force, but we don't really have good enough feats to judge properly.


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## colt6920 (Mar 8, 2013)

Why did you make the thread if you think their so weak?  Obviously explosive tags aren't going through rashoman gates.  This seems like an Uchiha hate thread.  Kid Sasuke's arrow was compared to his susanoo arrow as well.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 8, 2013)

HiroshiSenju said:


> :sanji
> 
> You clearly haven't played any game in the Accel series, which was developed by CC2 as well, under Namco Bandai Games, and supposedly coincided with the anime and manga. Go watch Itachi's ougi and tell me that his Grand Fireball jutsu is truly an island buster...



You clearly haven't played Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, considering the blast from Yasaka no Magatama is ridiculously large.

The Accel series is a piece of shit; it's archaic.



ueharakk said:


> According to Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, base Naruto has tsunade-level strength and can beat Tobi in base.
> 
> Video game feats should only apply if the OP allows them.



False.

Base Naruto can't replicate the feat of cracking Susano'o - let alone break through it - so there is still a large gap between the two of them.



Jagger said:


> Going by that logic, Hanzo was as strong as the Sannin at their prime and there's no indefinite proof that states otherwise.



It is also likely that neither of them had their respective powers: Creation Rebirth, Edo Tensei and Sage Mode.

That would have made a difference.


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## ueharakk (Mar 8, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> False.
> 
> Base Naruto can't replicate the feat of cracking Susano'o - let alone break through it - so there is still a large gap between the two of them.



I know its false, but that's what he can do with his feats in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3.  Against Tobi he punches the guy so hard he breaks the entire battlefield.

It's just an example to show you how uncannon the video game feats are.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 8, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> I know its false, but that's what he can do with his feats in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3.  Against Tobi he punches the guy so hard he breaks the entire battlefield.
> 
> It's just an example to show you how uncannon the video game feats are.



I don't think he has Tsunade-level strength (even with UNS3 feats).

SM Naruto is more likely...


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## ueharakk (Mar 8, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> I don't think he has Tsunade-level strength (even with UNS3 feats).
> 
> SM Naruto is more likely...



@ 3:41


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 8, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> @ 3:41



His fists have many names and thoughts backing them up.

Doesn't count!


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## Fear (Mar 8, 2013)

Honestly? Neither can surpass Rashōmon (the full three gates anyway). And I am being dead serious. Once again, people seem have misconceived how Jutsu's actually work, which is quite a common mistake in the Battle Dome. First things first, Yasaka no Magatama does not explode within impact, and nobody give me that rubbish by saying ''But it was used to support Naruto's Fūton Rasenshuriken and B's Bijūdama!'' Yes, yes it was indeed - but that does not necessarily mean they were all on equal terms, especially on how each respective Jutsu's function. And don't even get me started on Chibaku's Tensei's level of development, had that been the same one Deva used on Naruto back in the invasion, Yasaka no Magatama would of been rendered pathetic like throwing a coin at a brick wall.

Technically (as much as I hate to admit, and yes, I do like Itachi, Uchiha's in general in fact)  Yasaka no Magatama are large chakra-made shurikens. Undeniable, now I would post several scans proving this, but that isn't required since most of you will probably agree with me anyway.


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## Dr. White (Mar 8, 2013)

inFAMOUS said:


> Honestly? Neither can surpass Rashōmon (the full three gates anyway). And I am being dead serious. Once again, people seem have misconceived how Jutsu's actually work, which is quite a common mistake in the Battle Dome. First things first, Yasaka no Magatama does not explode within impact, and nobody give me that rubbish by saying ''But it was used to support Naruto's Fūton Rasenshuriken and B's Bijūdama!'' Yes, yes it was indeed - but that does not necessarily mean they were all on equal terms, especially on how each respective Jutsu's function.
> 
> Technically (as much as I hate to admit, and yes, I do like Itachi, Uchiha's in general in fact)  Yasaka no Magatama are large chakra-made shurikens. Undeniable, now I would post several scans proving this, but that is't required since most of you will probably agree with me anyway.



Not at all...The Magatama's are individual beads that each pack explosive power as seen with one being enough to traverse Tsunade flying backwards into debris of rocks, note the speed at which she is shot back(only surviving because of Byakugo), Itachi's individual magatama's each billowed easily through the stalagtites, and caused explosions around Kabuto nullfying any escaping from Sasuke's arrow. The other time Madara used it, it traversed not only through Gaara's ultimate mother defense, but even went far enough to crack through the golems.

The three tomoe version has only been shown once, and considering Kishi decided to portray it on par with FRS, and Bjuudama we can assume it is powerful(not to mention it is a freaking Susano weapon lol) or else Kishi would not have debuted it there, and easily could have shown it in the Kabuto fight and with Madara. Hopefully we see another 3-tomoe version with good enough feats to shut people up about its potential.


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## Blu-ray (Mar 8, 2013)

I can't say yes or no, but I doubt it can. Kiba however, would plow right through and kill its summoner


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## ueharakk (Mar 8, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> His fists have many names and thoughts backing them up.
> 
> Doesn't count!



AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Dr. White (Mar 8, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!



lol relax man, he obviously isn't going to except that Video game feats aren't canon. He is one of an extremely small minority who actually do believe that.


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## ueharakk (Mar 8, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> lol relax man, he obviously isn't going to except that Video game feats aren't canon. He is one of an extremely small minority who actually do believe that.



lol bro, it was a joke.

And i'm pretty sure he's joking as well.

thanks for the concern though.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 8, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> lol relax man, he obviously isn't going to except that Video game feats aren't canon. He is one of an extremely small minority who actually do believe that.



Did you think I was truly serious? 

The notion of Yasaka no Magatama being superior to FRS is astounding, but that feat is restricted to Ultimate Ninja Storm 3.


The followers of Itachi should be able to see through deception.


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## Fear (Mar 8, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Not at all...The Magatama's are individual beads that each pack explosive power as seen with one being enough to traverse Tsunade flying backwards into debris of rocks, note the speed at which she is shot back(only surviving because of Byakugo), Itachi's individual magatama's each billowed easily through the stalagtites, and caused explosions around Kabuto nullfying any escaping from Sasuke's arrow. The other time Madara used it, it traversed not only through Gaara's ultimate mother defense, but even went far enough to crack through the golems.



No they do not pack 'explosive power', the scan you showed me actually didn't prove your point, in fact it goes against point. What you see is actually general matter around the air that is caused by blunt force. Want proof? Look below (this is shown actually one page before the scan you posted, and take a look at the red ring I used to highlight the SAME effect used that you tried to justify as an explosion):



I don't see anything capable of causing an explosion here, do you? Because there isn't nothing explosive, just general force from Tsunade's strike. And here's the scan you posted:



They look similar, don't they? That's because they are. Just that Madara used much more force, hence a bigger 'shockwave.' This same shockwave has also been seen previously in past chapters, though I am not so bovered to find them here. 

And finally, look at the last panel of the scan you posted (where Tsunade made impact on the rocks). Notice how the collosion looks *exactly* the same as my examples? And how it nowhere near resembles a Fūton Rasenshuriken or Bijūdama? Because my friend, like I said, doesn't have *any *end result explosions like the two other Jutu's do.



Dr. White said:


> The three tomoe version has only been shown once, and considering Kishi decided to portray it on par with FRS, and Bjuudama we can assume it is powerful(not to mention it is a freaking Susano weapon lol) or else Kishi would not have debuted it there, and easily could have shown it in the Kabuto fight and with Madara. Hopefully we see another 3-tomoe version with good enough feats to shut people up about its potential.



Three Tamoe, four Tamoe, five Tamoe, one hundred thousand Tamoe, it doesn't matter, full stop. The Jutsu isn't designed liked Rasenshuriken or Bijūdama. And like I said, because it was partnered by the over two Jutsu's it doesn't mean they're the same in strength, or construct for that matter. In fact, the only reason why Itachi used that was because that is his only long ranged attack, unless you care to prove me wrong (please don't post a scan where he uses a Katon).


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## Dr. White (Mar 8, 2013)

inFAMOUS said:


> No they do not pack 'explosive power', the scan you showed me actually didn't prove your point, in fact it goes against point. What you see is actually general matter around the air that is caused by blunt force. Want proof? Look below (this is shown actually one page before the scan you posted, and take a look at the red ring I used to highlight the SAME effect used that you tried to justify as an explosion):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



-The two scenes you used are hardly comparable, one shows a bit of force whilst a massive sword is shoved through her abdomen, and the other is a small Grapefruit sized projectile that upon impact causes huge amounts of force to be released. When I compared them to FRS and Bjuudama I meant overall power, not jutsu mechanics because by that token FRS and Bjuudama only share similar characteristics in the explosive force category. 

-What you feel to realize is that she was hit from point blank and was jolted so far back at such speeds as she was.  Madara didn't even hurl it he let it go out of his palm and it struck Tsunade immediately. Also the marks of force are signfigantly bigger than the one you posted. Even here on Itachi's weaker feat we can see a good amount of force coming from the grapefruit sized projectile, if it were as you claim that they pack no explosive force then they would simply cast a hole a portion bigger than their respective surface areas, but no we see big blast, and rocks crumbling from the roof.


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## Fear (Mar 8, 2013)

*Realizes Itachi Set*

No wonder.

No but all jokes aside, it's no where near the strength of  Rasenshuriken or Bijūdama. You're just being denial here now, there's not *one* scan, not one, that shows Yasaka Matagama being near the raw power of the aforementioned. We only see a few futile collisions, and for that to be compared to landscape-changing attacks? Humorous to say the least.

And I'm afraid there will be no more feats of this Jutsu, because Itachi is dead, Madara forgot about it, and Sasuke's probably not even going to use it again. And that is that.


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## Doge (Mar 8, 2013)

inFAMOUS said:


> *Realizes Itachi Set*
> 
> No wonder.
> 
> ...



*But there is:*

Clearly, since Itachi used it against CT, we can accurately calculate that he did all of the heavy lifting and carried the three, completely destroying Chibaku Tensei and thus making a devastating attack.

Anyone saying otherwise is CLEARLY lying and does not have proof to back up my FACTUAL evidence.  

No srsly, my objective reasoninz>>>your lies.


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## Doge (Mar 8, 2013)

This thread is literally garbage.  We have the typical Itachi wanking and a person who insists video game feats are legitimate to use in the BD.

I miss Tsunade wankfests.


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 9, 2013)

At best, it might dent a single gate, but there's no way either versions will be able to destroy three gates which managed to (mostly) block and sustain a much stronger and explosive attack. Feat-wise, Yasaka no Magatama isn't really all that impressive.

Though, in the case of Itachi's, we haven't really seen much. We can either go off and assume that the technique was of a similar level of power as Naruto's Fūton: Rasenshuriken, or Bee's Bijū Dama because it was used alongside those two attacks to destroy the orb in Chibaku Tensei, or we can scale down from Madara's version, since we can probably assume Madara's is superior.

It all depends on your perspective, really, but personally I'd go for the latter. Itachi has never been one to have really powerful, explosive attacks, so I assume even his 'strongest' attack would be quite weak in comparison to the truly destructive jutsu of the manga. It wouldn't be right for Itachi to have a jutsu that was too flashy, given that he's always relied on subtlety and skill.


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## Vergil642 (Mar 9, 2013)

Atlantic Storm said:


> At best, it might dent a single gate, but there's no way either versions will be able to destroy three gates which managed to (mostly) block and sustain a much stronger and explosive attack. Feat-wise, Yasaka no Magatama isn't really all that impressive.
> 
> Though, in the case of Itachi's, we haven't really seen much. We can either go off and assume that the technique was of a similar level of power as Naruto's Fūton: Rasenshuriken, or Bee's Bijū Dama because it was used alongside those two attacks to destroy the orb in Chibaku Tensei, or we can scale down from Madara's version, since we can probably assume Madara's is superior.
> 
> It all depends on your perspective, really, but personally I'd go for the latter. Itachi has never been one to have really powerful, explosive attacks, so I assume even his 'strongest' attack would be quite weak in comparison to the truly destructive jutsu of the manga. It wouldn't be right for Itachi to have a jutsu that was too flashy, given that he's always relied on subtlety and skill.



Just to point out, it seems very likely that the Magatama has a great variation in power output depending on the intent of the user. Madara's been able to use tiny, individual ones with a ribcage and hand of Susanoo (though as an MKB that was no doubt weaker anyway) as well as a larger scattergun effect with his full Susanoo that required two large, powerful defensive Jutsu to stop.

The only one we've seen that was intended to do a large amount of burst damage in a single strike was Itachi's against CT, but we can't use that effectively as a feat because it hit alongside a goddamn Bijuudama and FRS.

Yasaka's Magatama is weak featwise because it lacks good feats, not because it's been used with serious intent and been found lacking. Shit sucks because it's presented as badass but Kishi's failed to actually show it doing much. It's suffering worse than Amaterasu as a badass ranged attack.


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## Atlantic Storm (Mar 9, 2013)

That's true. Yasaka no Magatama is probably a fairly powerful jutsu, given that it's a Mangekyō jutsu derived off of Susano'o. But until we see proper feats, I don't think it'd be able to destroy a defense as strong as Sanjū Rashōmon.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 9, 2013)

The games are not indicators of how powerful jutsu are. Ergo it is a horrible argument to base Yasaka Magatama's destructive power based on the game *when* we have seen its power in the manga.

Madara's I reckon would get through one and Itachi's would maybe open it, and _might_ make it to the second one but it stops there.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 9, 2013)

Brown Dick said:


> Lol I agree, if we go by video game feats, then regular non powered up Naruto is one of the fastest, strongest and most badass ninja. I saw a damn video where Naruto caught Sasukes chidori blade with his bare hands.



Lets not forget that Amaterasu travels to you, visibly, through the ground.


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## eyeknockout (Mar 9, 2013)

well a single piece of yasaka from madara's imperfect susanoo was able to penetrate gaara's strongest defense backed up by onoki's giant golem. so itachi's attack with 3 yasaka's connected together should be much stronger (like 3 times stronger). and gaara's strongest defense is greater than a rashoumon gate


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## Vergil642 (Mar 9, 2013)

eyeknockout said:


> well a single piece of yasaka from madara's imperfect susanoo was able to penetrate gaara's strongest defense backed up by onoki's giant golem. so itachi's attack with 3 yasaka's connected together should be much stronger (like 3 times stronger). and gaara's strongest defense is greater than a rashoumon gate



The issue is that each tomoe is not equal. It's entirely possible for one of Madara's tomoe in Magatama to be more powerful than 6 of Itachi's at once, or vice versa.

We just don't have the feats or indeed, any real evidence to get a good indication of how destructive a high level Yasaka's Magatama would be.


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## GKY (Mar 10, 2013)

Depends what feats you wanna go by. Part one Kiba made a dent in the gates, so Yasaka would easily pierce that. But if you go by the ones that blocked KN4 bijuu bomb, then only 1 or 2 gates might be penetrated.


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## Mibu Clan (Mar 10, 2013)

Even if you want to compare the Susano's (V2) Yasaka Magatamas to the Kunai's explosive power being equal; 

1) It is not the same as the Susano's (V3) Yasaka Magatama which are connected.

2) The Velocity at which they traveled was the same as Naruto's Fuuton Rasen Shuriken and Hachibi's Bijuu Dama.

3) Do you mean to compare the speed of the boar with the speed of Kabuto, whom was keeping up with Itachi; whom casually fought, dodged and sparred with  Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto and Killer Bee?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 10, 2013)

Each individual Magatama jewel though, Mibu Clan, was compared directly in power to that of a single explosive tag. All three-or four together would mean they're as powerful as four explosive tags put together. So around building level. The velocity traveled shouldn't be compared to Futon: Rasenshuriken (which tops out at _mach 20_ from its mountain range crossing feat-less than a single second) or Bijudama (which ranges from mach 32-60).


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## Phenom II (Mar 10, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> You clearly haven't played Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, considering the blast from Yasaka no Magatama is ridiculously large.
> 
> The Accel series is a piece of shit; it's archaic.
> 
> ...



On the Accel series, its gameplay is 10x better than Storm ever will be, all it has is shiny graphics.

He is trying to prove the un-canon-ness of video games. Base Naruto barely dents rock, lol.

Either will be lucky to get though one gate.

SSM12, the FRS is barely hypersonic, where are you getting Mach 20?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 10, 2013)

Phenom II said:


> SSM12, the FRS is barely hypersonic, where are you getting Mach 20?


Fluttershy's calcs and corresponding calculations put the Futon: Rasenshuriken at Mach 19.92 or Mach 20 after several reevaluations of the size of the crater and the size of Konoha. All of which are agreed to fit the value we got for 'cross an entire mountain range in less than a second' figure.

The barely Mach 5 calc is outdated. Especially when we now have Mach 14 Sand Shuriken in Part I.


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## Neelix (Mar 10, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Each individual Magatama jewel though, Mibu Clan, was compared directly in power to that of a single explosive tag. All three-or four together would mean they're as powerful as four explosive tags put together.



This is beyond retarded logic, so by that, we can compare Sasukes arrow as a 6 years old kid to his Susanoo arrow in the Kabuto fight.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 10, 2013)

Honestly i believe itachi's version of yasaka magatama will dent the first gate but not break it because it does not strike me as a "power crush" type move but more of a projectile to cause piercing wound by penetrating. I cannot see it breaking the first rashomon gate. I give it the benefit of a doubt seeing as it is itachi's strongest long range tech and since madara's have good piercing power even in singles then three tied together should have some powerful results.

I also see madara's version pushing the first gate and making a dent in it just off the fact the projectiles are coming in rapid succession.  Each one can drive through gaara and onoki defense to a good degree so that should be a good feat to speculate it denting it a bit.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 10, 2013)

SSM12 was right in all of his observations. Itachi's variant created craters similar to the explosive capacity of paper tag bombs. Madara's variant didn't even manage to pierce Gaara's sand- as Onoki's golem remained untouched. an FRS or Bijuudama would have obliterated not only the sand and golem, but anyone standing behind it. 

This thread actually should have been closed once King Itachi started talking. Majority of what I read here has been Itachi wank on astronomical levels- it made me sick to my stomach. 

High-speed Susano yin chakra constructed in the form of shurikens bust concrete at best- it's highly doubtful they even manage to dent a massive legendary steel gate. IMO Sasuke's arrow is better- and that barely managed to pierce concrete pillars. A single Mokuton tree caught and changed it's trajectory. 

It's a weak technique- it cannot be compared to Bijuudama or FRS in any form- that goes for speed, destructive capacity and chakra output.


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## Neelix (Mar 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> SSM12 was right in all of his observations. Itachi's variant created craters similar to the explosive capacity of paper tag bombs.



Itachi's strongest long range attack has the power of 3 paper bombs...?

I'm gonna puke my eyes out and feed them to my dogs.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 11, 2013)

Couple of points.

It is unknown whether Madara's magatama is a common one or the specific Item from the imperial regalia.
Sorta like how Totsuka is a unique item and not the same as other swords.

There is also no way to know how magatama would fare against Rashomon. Because there is no ground to compare Magatama to Bijuu bomb, or Rashomon to Golem & Gaara's sand defense.

Gaara's sand defenses best feat is blocking jokei boi. Onoki's golem is pretty much featless, but a smaller version created by the fat dude(onoki's body guard) could block a C1 from Deidara.


edit : Also Magata's power seems to be its penetration power rather than explosive force. They are different type of attacks, which can create different type of results.



DaVizWiz said:


> that goes for speed,



Itachi's Magatama travels with the same speed as FRS.


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## Mibu Clan (Mar 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> SSM12 was right in all of his observations. Itachi's variant created craters similar to the explosive capacity of paper tag bombs. Madara's variant didn't even manage to pierce Gaara's sand- as Onoki's golem remained untouched. an FRS or Bijuudama would have obliterated not only the sand and golem, but anyone standing behind it.
> 
> This thread actually should have been closed once King Itachi started talking. Majority of what I read here has been Itachi wank on astronomical levels- it made me sick to my stomach.
> 
> ...



Actually no, it's velocity is the same as a KCM Naruto FRS and Gyuki's Bijuudama since they arrived at the same time. You could suggest that in an inferior Susano (V2) they would be slightly slower.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Mar 11, 2013)

Mibu Clan said:


> Actually no, it's velocity is the same as a KCM Naruto FRS and Gyuki's Bijuudama since they arrived at the same time. You could suggest that in an inferior Susano (V2) they would be slightly slower.


Inferior level of Susano'o created from a far stronger Dojutsu though, it should be a stronger variant. And no, its not at the same velocity as FRS and Bijudama, what happens when you drop three objects at the same time? They fall at the same rate. Same thing about the attack on Chibaku Tensei.

Mibu Clan, if the Yasaka Magatama really is as fast as at least the FRS: show me a feat of it crossing an entire mountain range in less than a second please.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 11, 2013)

The only Yasaka's Magatama I see getting through all the Roushoumon gates is Sasuke's Enton: Yasaka's Magatama. That's with the assumption that Sasuke focuses on the Enton (which gives it the incineration affect) while using Kagutsuchi to improve its effectiveness.

Another point to show that a linked Magatama won't get the job done is to look at how much damage it did when Madara used it on Tsunade.


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## Mibu Clan (Mar 11, 2013)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Inferior level of Susano'o created from a far stronger Dojutsu though, it should be a stronger variant. And no, its not at the same velocity as FRS and Bijudama, what happens when you drop three objects at the same time? They fall at the same rate. Same thing about the attack on Chibaku Tensei.
> 
> Mibu Clan, if the Yasaka Magatama really is as fast as at least the FRS: show me a feat of it crossing an entire mountain range in less than a second please.



They all fall at the same rate but they have different velocities based on a number of variables. 

If what you say were true they couldnt have thrown their attacks but rather created and waited for them to attract at the same speed as the Rock is=t was also lifting under the same gravity.

The moment they fired their Jutsu they had an increase in VELOCITY in relation to other attracted objects such as their own bodies and the rock.

If they landed at the same time it is because the *Velocity* not gravity.

The Yasaka Kagatama (V2) would dent the gates. ImO Susano V3 Magatama can pierce a single Gate... not blow up, it's not an AoE Jutsu.


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## KakuzuForever (Mar 11, 2013)

Been an interesting debate.  Lots of transitive relations since we can't really compare them directly.

I'd say it can easily go through 1 rasho, with +/- on the 2nd, but as with everyone else's input, it's pure guess due to lack of comparable feats (for both it, and rasho).

To put in my 2 cents on power inferences....

It is canon that magatama is Itachi's strongest long range jutsu.

It is also canon that kishi wrote it, such that it should be compared to FRS/TBB.

It should, however, be noted that magatama lacks feats comparable to FRS and TBB.

As others have pointed out, while it may be the strongest long range tech itachi has, it doesn't equate it to being on FRS/TBB level.

On that same token but on its other side, it is *completely missing the point * to believe that magatama is on the level of simple explosive tags, since the flashback was stressing itachi/sasuke's teamwork (such flashbacks is not a novel concept, as it has been done many times in other literary works).

As others have pointed out, based on this line of reasoning, a susano'o arrow is as weak as young sasuke's arrow, or that Kabuto's fighting level is like that of the large boar (1, 2).



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...And no, its not at the same velocity as FRS and Bijudama, what happens when you drop three objects at the same time? They fall at the same rate. Same thing about the attack on Chibaku Tensei.



You are still incalcitrant regarding physics apparently, as someone has already talked about how gravity and kinematics works.

I'll repost a section of it...



Nikushimi said:


> Gravity doesn't equalize speed. If you aim downward and throw a baseball and fire a cannon simultaneously from an airplane, they aren't going to be "equalized" to the same velocity. Gravity is going to accelerate them at the same rate, but they are still moving with the velocities imparted to them initially; that difference is not reconciled by gravity.



This is 100% correct (and well explained to boot).

If even this example isn't extreme enough, then imagine being in that airplane and simply releasing the baseball, and shooting a bullet from a high powered rifle towards the earth.

Do you honestly think the baseball has even the slightest chance of hitting the earth at the same time the bullet would?


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 11, 2013)

> Itachi's strongest long range attack has the power of 3 paper bombs...?


Itachi's best long range attack is Amy canonically. Then it's probably his massive GF, as it busts concrete and nearly hit base Naruto from 100+ meters. Yin Shurikens aren't as powerful as amy or fast, and at best equal the speed of his GF. 

Itachi isn't granted a special pass to have an astronomically powerful attack just because he's Itachi. He has what he has. Feats with this jutsu were sub-par, that's all there is to it. 



Mibu Clan said:


> Actually no, it's velocity is the same as a KCM Naruto FRS and Gyuki's Bijuudama since they arrived at the same time. You could suggest that in an inferior Susano (V2) they would be slightly slower.


It's velocity is undetermined- the gravity immediately stopped the initial velocity and pulled it toward the core at the force speed of the gravity. You don't add the speed of the technique to the force pull of the gravity- Itachi commented saying they didn't need to be accurate in using their Jutsu- suggesting they weren't exactly aiming for it. Thus, throwing even an inch off the linear path of the gravity suction would immediately cancel the speed of the technique and begin pulling it at the force velocity of the core. Since you have no proof they blasted the Jutsus completely accurate, you cannot prove their Jutsu's speed are equal. 

Itachi managed to force Kabuto into closing his eyes, in reality- he probably could have hit him with them as he wasn't trying to kill him- but that doesn't mean it's as fast as BD or FRS.


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## blk (Mar 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> It's velocity is undetermined- the gravity immediately stopped the initial velocity and pulled it toward the core at the force speed of the gravity. You don't add the speed of the technique to the force pull of the gravity- Itachi commented saying they didn't need to be accurate in using their Jutsu- suggesting they weren't exactly aiming for it. Thus, throwing even an inch off the linear path of the gravity suction would immediately cancel the speed of the technique and begin pulling it at the force velocity of the core. Since you have no proof they blasted the Jutsus completely accurate, you cannot prove their Jutsu's speed are equal.



An object doesn't need to have the exact direction and orientation of the gravitational attractor, in order to benefit from the gravitational acceleration starting by its own initial velocity.

The difference between the speed of the FRS, Bijuudama and Magatama, is minuscule and not significant.


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## Mibu Clan (Mar 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> Itachi's best long range attack is Amy canonically. Then it's probably his massive GF, as it busts concrete and nearly hit base Naruto from 100+ meters. Yin Shurikens aren't as powerful as amy or fast, and at best equal the speed of his GF.
> 
> Itachi isn't granted a special pass to have an astronomically powerful attack just because he's Itachi. He has what he has. Feats with this jutsu were sub-par, that's all there is to it.



I wouldn't say that, he has a wide range of powerful Suitons (Suijinheki, Suiryuudan, Suikodan, Suiton fired at Kakashi's legs) + Explosive Kage Bunshin (+ Genjutsu).



> It's velocity is undetermined- the gravity immediately stopped the initial velocity and pulled it toward the crater at the speed of the gravity.


The gravity provides a steady equally strong attraction on everything Trees, Rock, Stone... To arrive at the same time by being Fired at the same moment, under an equal force of attraction, does imply equal speed if they arrive at the same time. The Gravity did not stop the initial velocity, the attacks never moved at the same speed as their own bodies or the stone around them. 



> Itachi managed to force Kabuto into closing his eyes, in reality- he probably could have hit him with them as he wasn't trying to kill him- but that doesn't mean it's as fast as BD or FRS.


They arrived at the same time being fired in the same moment. Its as simple as that. The Gravitational Pull is equal on every object.


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## KakuzuForever (Mar 11, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> It's velocity is undetermined- the gravity immediately stopped the initial velocity and pulled it toward the core at the force speed of the gravity. You don't add the speed of the technique to the force pull of the gravity- Itachi commented saying they didn't need to be accurate in using their Jutsu- suggesting they weren't exactly aiming for it. Thus, throwing even an inch off the linear path of the gravity suction would immediately cancel the speed of the technique and begin pulling it at the force velocity of the core. Since you have no proof they blasted the Jutsus completely accurate, you cannot prove their Jutsu's speed are equal.



This unfortunately has Science Fiction physics written all over it.  It's the kind of stuff you see on TV for the sake of plot.

Gravity immediately stopping the initial velocity is not even something that I can imagine how you came up with.  It's straight up untrue.

Without diving into details of newton's laws, the force of gravity will always act on something when present, even while still in the person's hands.  There is no such thing as gravity nullifying the initial imparted velocity on an object.

My best guess of where you may be pulling this from is throwing an object up in the air, and being told how gravity slows it's velocity (b/c the force is acting opposite of the initial trajectory).  But in this case, they are in concert, so gravity only helps speed it up.  Meaning that the Kinetic energy (KE) immediately after releasing Magatama, FRS, and TBB, compared to that of the KE immediately before hitting the core, is less (disregarding assumptions that I won't go into details about).

The support you used for your argument from Itachi's statement was misinterpreted, due to your "gravity cancellation" idea.

Itachi meant that you didn't need to aim directly for the core b/c so long as the attack isn't way off, the minor deviation in trajectory will be corrected due to the radial pull towards the core.  This is because it will impart a "radial" component of velocity (a now angular velocity) to the projectile, and will now yield a radial acceleration to it, albeit of limited time before it finally hits.

Now here's a followup set of questions just for kicks (and some education to try and get rid of some misconceptions).  Skip if you hate science.
*Spoiler*: __ 




If naruto, bee, and itachi aimed their attacks exactly opposite to that of the Core's gravitational pull, would it hit the core still?
Yes (though you knew that answer already).  In order for the attacks to not hit the core, they will have to impart an infinite (yes, infinite) amount of velocity/energy to their attacks away from the core.​
Which would result in a greater amount of Kinetic energy upon reaching the core?
1. Throwing it directly at the core (less distance and time for core to accelerate them, but the gravity accelerates it directly since the forces are in the same direction).
2. Throwing it directly away from the core (gravity works against the attacks, but now the attacks will have more distance and time for the core to accerlate them).
The answer is neither (trick question).  The amount of potential energy that the attacks gain from being thrown away from the core will exactly equal that of the initial Kinetic energy that was imparted to them (basic conservation of energy of throwing a ball up in the air at velocity X, and determining it's velocity when it returns; it's an energy problem, not a kinematics one).  In other words, as far as energy goes, it won't make a difference which parallel pathway they choose to throw it.  The only thing that will change is the time it takes for the attacks to hit the core.​
If either of the 3 threw their attack too hard in a direction slightly off from the core, can it miss the core?
Yes and then no.  Since the initial velocity will be so great that the core's pull would be unable to accelerate it fast enough towards itself, the attack will indeed miss, but like with the very first question, it will eventually be pulled back and hit it.​
*If either of the 3 had an enormous sense of humor and wanted to give the core a satellite, could they do it?*Also a yes.  Just like how we have satellites in real life (called the moon, and literal man-made metal objects sending/receiving electromagnetic radiation orbiting our planet), they could theoretically do the same to the core using their attacks if they had the calculations.

*It would be pretty funny and powerful to imagine a chibaku tensei core with a few FRS's and TBB's and Magatama's spinning around it like an atom; with the capability of launching that combined attack at someone*.​


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## Seon (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm afraid KakuzuForever is correct. 

People who also claim that Amaterasu is Itachi's most powerful long range attack simply have begun to believe in their own things without using the manga. He said yasaka was his most powerful so we take that at face value. 

As for flashbacks and what not, do you purposefully begin to misunderstand the meanings behind it or what? When Kishimoto makes a panel he wants you to focus on the point of him showing it. When a character makes a claim it should be taken unless proven wrong in the manga later. Orochimaru claimed he couldn't beat Itachi then, we shouldn't take that as "he wasn't at full power"  or "he wasn't trying/holding back". We were shown that small fight as a means to show you what Itachi can do. 

Honestly, the whole point about the edo Nagato fighters simply this "you cannot do everything alone" and "every jutsu has a weakness" I don't understand how that can be misunderstood.


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## LostSelf (Mar 12, 2013)

King Itachi said:


> There isn't any indefinite proof that states otherwise.
> 
> Either of the three techniques could have destroyed its core.



There is not proof. A Bijudama failed to destroy Chibaku Tensei. By penetrating the rocks and exploding from the inside. Itachi's magatama is doing shit to CT.

OT: It can probably destroy one, since it's a featless jutsu in Itachi's part, i'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: I realized i quoted a banned user. Lol for me.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 12, 2013)

> An object doesn't need to have the exact direction and orientation of the gravitational attractor, in order to benefit from the gravitational acceleration starting by its own initial velocity.


It surely does. You can't resist the pull of gravity in anyway. If something isn't already moving directly toward the core, it's trajectory will be corrected by stopping the object and pulling it with the correct G-force. 



> The difference between the speed of the FRS, Bijuudama and Magatama, is minuscule and not significant.


You have no evidence suggesting this. 



> The gravity provides a steady equally strong attraction on everything Trees, Rock, Stone... To arrive at the same time by being Fired at the same moment, under an equal force of attraction, does imply equal speed if they arrive at the same time. The Gravity did not stop the initial velocity, the attacks never moved at the same speed as their own bodies or the stone around them.


It surely did stop the initial velocity- you're suggesting these techniques were blasted accurate enough to be on a direct linear path with the middle of the core- it's ridiculous to suggest such. 




> They arrived at the same time being fired in the same moment. Its as simple as that. The Gravitational Pull is equal on every object.


You just made my point. 



> This unfortunately has Science Fiction physics written all over it.  It's the kind of stuff you see on TV for the sake of plot.


No it's not, your explanation was general bullshit. 



> Gravity immediately stopping the initial velocity is not even something that I can imagine how you came up with.  It's straight up untrue.


No it's not, if you throw a rock away from the sun- it will immediately stop it.. then gravitate toward it. In reality, you probably wouldn't even be able to throw it. 

The initial velocity you're suggesting doesn't exist when CT is activated. Once it leaves the hands, Susano or mouth of Hachibi it likely was immediately sucked toward the core, regardless of where it was being aimed. 



> Without diving into details of newton's laws, the force of gravity will always act on something when present, even while still in the person's hands.  There is no such thing as gravity nullifying the initial imparted velocity on an object.


What the hell are you talking about? When a CT core is floating in the vicinity the speed of a ranged attack is immediately negated- once it leaves the control of the caster the gravitational pull immediately takes over. Do you honestly believe those three attacks are that close in speed with added G-Force?



> My best guess of where you may be pulling this from is throwing an object up in the air, and being told how gravity slows it's velocity (b/c the force is acting opposite of the initial trajectory).  But in this case, they are in concert, so gravity only helps speed it up.  Meaning that the Kinetic energy (KE) immediately after releasing Magatama, FRS, and TBB, compared to that of the KE immediately before hitting the core, is less (disregarding assumptions that I won't go into details about).


They are not in concert- the attacks aren't accurate enough from afar to suggest they were thrown directly toward the middle of the core. 



> The support you used for your argument from Itachi's statement was misinterpreted, due to your "gravity cancellation" idea.


No it wasn't, Naruto suggested he may not be able to hit it because it was so small- and Itachi said you don't have to worry about hitting it- it will pull the attack in. Why would Naruto ask that if he wasn't confident his attack would be accurate from afar? 



> Itachi meant that you didn't need to aim directly for the core b/c so long as the attack isn't way off, the minor deviation in trajectory will be corrected due to the radial pull towards the core.  This is because it will impart a "radial" component of velocity (a now angular velocity) to the projectile, and will now yield a radial acceleration to it, albeit of limited time before it finally hits.


Exactly. What you're suggesting is immediately defeated by the fact CT's pull is on an extreme level- once a Jutsu leaves the hands of the caster, CT immediately takes over. The ground was pulling itself up underneath the three ninja- several feet above them the G-force was likely on an insane level. 

You have no evidence suggesting they were even remotely accurate in their ranged-bursts, all they're depicted doing is throwing and launching Jutsu above- there is no back-side panel view of their attacks being shot accurately. In support, Itachi's dialogue suggests they didn't even have to aim- leading me to believe they carelessly shot their Jutsu in a frantic outburst. 



> People who also claim that Amaterasu is Itachi's most powerful long range attack simply have begun to believe in their own things without using the manga. He said yasaka was his most powerful so we take that at face value.


It's canon Amy is more powerful- since it burns for 7 days and cannot be put out. He said it because at the time- it was the most powerful in the instance of instantly busting the CT core.


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## SuperSaiyaWoman12 (Mar 12, 2013)

> Believes Yasaka Magatama is explosive-tag level.
> Puts it against a technique that allowed a Sannin to survive a Bijuudama.
> Obvious spite thread.

Reported for spite/troll thread.


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## blk (Mar 12, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> It surely does. You can't resist the pull of gravity in anyway. If something isn't already moving directly toward the core, it's trajectory will be corrected by stopping the object and pulling it with the correct G-force.



The trajectory can be changed without stopping the object.

Their attacks were throwed in the general direction and orientation of CT (you can see it from the scans that they don't throw them in the opposite), therefore the gravitional acceleration was added to their own.
This is further suggested by the fact that the attacks had greater speed than the rest of the attracted objects (and by a certain level of knowledge of physic).

Moreover, effects such the gravitational slingshot wouldn't be possible if what you said was true.


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## ueharakk (Mar 12, 2013)

I see wrongs (or at least in my opinion are wrong) on both ends of the spectrum.

1st)


Grimmjowsensei said:


> Couple of points.
> It is unknown whether Madara's magatama is a common one or the specific Item from the imperial regalia.
> Sorta like how Totsuka is a unique item and not the same as other swords.


totsuka was explicitly stated to be an individual spiritual item and it is visually different from other susanoo swords.

There is nothing that suggests itachi's individual magatamas are any more or less powerful than Madaras ones of the same size, material, and shape. 

 Madara even does a miniture version of yasaka magatama, he just doesn't explicitly call the attack "yasaka's magatama" when he uses it just like kakashi doesn't always say "raikiri" or naruto doesn't always say "rasengan" when they use their respective attacks.

2nd)


Grimmjowsensei said:


> edit : Also Magata's power seems to be its penetration power rather than explosive force. They are different type of attacks, which can create different type of results.


Based on Madara's mini yasaka magatama on tsunade, it would seem magatama is more explosive than penetrative, as she receives no wounds from the attack, yet gets sent through a cliff by the force of the explosion.


3rd)


DaVizWiz said:


> SSM12 was right in all of his observations. Itachi's variant created craters similar to the explosive capacity of paper tag bombs.


maybe the explosion that it created was the same SIZE as the paper bombs, however the power of the explosion is obviously much much greater.  Madara's chaingun magatama blew open Gaara's mother defense and almost got through oonoki's golem.  
Compare that to kindergarden gaara's last-minute sand defense being undamaged by many explosive tags going off at once or gaara's last minute sand defense being undamaged by C1 birds, it's obvious that the individual magatama's are tiers beyond tiers more powerful than individual paper bombs.

4th and finally)
Itachi's Yasaka magatama is as fast as FRS and Bijuudama.  Gravity does not momentum cancel or equalize momentum between objects that it affects.  Ever did the experiment where one drops a pencil and a bowling ball at the same time?  They both fall at the same rate.  Why is that? Because they both have the same initial velocity (zero) and are drawn to the earth at the same rate.  
The same is true for FRS and Magatama.  the only way they could have traveled as fast as the other is if they both were given the same initial velocity before they began to "fall".


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 12, 2013)

Really not sure but i doubt even madara's would pierce all three.


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## KakuzuForever (Mar 13, 2013)

This response is just science, and making sure misconceptions aren't propagated.  So you can skip it if you only cared about the thread.

*And worse than that, it has math as well as physics, so definitely skip if you didn't want to read anything school-like.*



DaVizWiz said:


> No it's not, your explanation was general bullshit.



"bullshit" in your terminology must equate to scientifically accurate.  I'll elaborate more in your other responses.



DaVizWiz said:


> No it's not, if you throw a rock away from the sun- it will immediately stop it.. then gravitate toward it. In reality, you probably wouldn't even be able to throw it.



Ask any physics professor, concerning your statement.  There is NO SUCH THING as gravity immediately nullifying initial velocity.

Seriously, go back to your local college or wherever, and seriously ask them the question of "what happens if you were to throw a rock away from the sun; would it immediately stop? Or would its velocity decrease at a rate as defined by the kinematics equation: V(f) = V(i) + a*t?"

Where V(f) is the final velocity at time = t, and V(i) is the initial velocity at time = 0.

My guess on your misconception probably stems from your idea that because the gravitational pull of the sun is so great, that it "immediately" nullifies the velocity, but that isn't the case.  

It's just very fast is all, in terms of a human powered throw of a rock.

Let's do actual physics to drive it home, and use a baseball in the example.


Mass of baseball (roughly) = 150 g
Mass of sun = 1.989x10^30 kg
G = the gravitational constant
r = distance between the 2 masses

r(1) = 92,960,000 miles 
r(2) = 100 miles​
For the sake of the example, let's use 2 different radiuses.  The first being as if you were on earth's surface, r(1) (but obviously discounting earth's gravity), and the 2nd being an arbitrarily close distance, r(2), to stress where the force is so great that the time is very short.

I'll let you determine the Force of the sun's pull for both of these cases (tip:  remember to convert to SI for all units before plugging them into the equation; for the sake of brevity I will not show those conversions).

Answers:

*Spoiler*: __ 




The equation is F = {G*m(1)*m(2) } / (r^2)

F(1) = { (6.674x10^-11)*(0.15)*(1.989x10^30) } / (1.496x10^11)^2
F(1) = 0.0008897 N

Now for the very close distance...

F(2) = { (6.674x10^-11)*(0.15)*(1.989x10^30) } / (1.609x10^6)^2
F(2) = 7691000 N (roughly)




Ok, so now you know that there is an enormous gap in the sun's force since the strength of gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them (I bet you've heard that statement a million times).

So now what?

Well, you have everything you need for the acceleration, so let's do some more boring math.

F(1) = 8.897x10^-4 N
F(2) = 7.691x10^6 N
M = 150 g (the baseball's mass).

Answer (as if anyone needed it):

*Spoiler*: __ 




Newton's 2nd law....F = m*a

Therefore the acceleration the ball will have will be a = F/m

a(1) = 8.897x10^4/0.15 = 0.005931 = 5.931x10^-3 m/s^2
a(2) = 7.691x10^6/0.15 = 51270000 (roughly) = 5.127x10^7 m/s^2




Now obviously we could  have just used the equation g = G*m/r^2 to directly calculate the acceleration due to gravity, but then I wouldn't have been able to impress upon you the great difference in force (which is wherein lies the root of the misconception).

*So now let's get to the real meat of it in determining how long it will take to slow down a baseball*...

Let's calculate how long it will take for a ball thrown by a person away from the sun from both of these distances.

Our values to use are:

V = 90 mph  (a decent fastball)
a(1) = 5.931x10^-3 m/s^2
a(2) = 5.127x10^7 m/s^2

How long does it take for that baseball to reach a speed of 0 for both cases?

Answer:

*Spoiler*: __ 




If your spidey sense was tingling to use that velocity equation, then you are right!

V(f) = V(i) + a*t

So....

For a 1 astronomical unit distance...
0 = 40.234 m/s - (5.931x10^-3 m/s^2)*(t)
t = -40.234 / -5.931x10^-3 = 6.783x10^3 s =* roughly 1.9 hours*

For a 100 mile distance...
0 = 40.234 m/s - (5.127x10^7 m/s^2)*(t)
t = -40.234 / -5.127x10^7 = 7.847 x10^-7 s = *roughly 780 nanoseconds*



*As you can see, in our eyes, it would be as if the ball would immediately stop if thrown only 100 miles from the sun, but in fact there is a measurable time difference.  There is no violating the laws of physics....it's just really fast.*



DaVizWiz said:


> The initial velocity you're suggesting doesn't exist when CT is activated. Once it leaves the hands, Susano or mouth of Hachibi it likely was immediately sucked toward the core, regardless of where it was being aimed.



I mentioned this in passing in my previous post.

The force of gravity is always acting when present.

So what does this mean if we reference the baseball thrower in the tedious example above?

It means that before the guy throws it, the sun is still yielding its force.

There were many givens that had to be made for the example, but that's normal for physics concepts.

The main one which you alluded to already was, "In reality, you probably wouldn't even be able to throw it".  And if you were 100 miles from the sun you are right!

The sun's force of gravity is so great (see example above for the value) that no human has the physical strength to throw a ball against it.

But does this prove your point?  Of course not.  B/c we aren't talking reality, we are talking physics concepts.

Now here are some more physics questions to spur some critical thinking...

In the baseball thrower example above, what is the acceleration of the ball in  the guy's hand when he's just holding it (ie. not throwing it just yet)?
Answer: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



Zero.



In that same question, where he's just holding it in his hand doing nothing, what is the force of gravity on the ball from the sun?
Answer: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



7.691x10^6 N (from the above calculations)



But wait, you said the acceleration is Zero, how can the sun be pulling the ball with so much force and not accelerate it?
Answer: 
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Because the man is also placing a force on the ball to hold it, namely, it is exactly 7.691x10^6 N.  Obviously this isn't humanly possible, but remember it's a physics example.  In a closer to reality example, imagine holding out your hand with a baseball in it on earth....it's acceleration is zero b/c you are exerting the exact same amount of force on it that earth is, resulting in a net force = Zero!



When the baseball thrower decides to throw the ball, he winds up, and swings his arm forward....what is the net force on the baseball BEFORE he releases it?
Answer:  
*Spoiler*: __ 



NOT ZERO.  Qualitative values will be more than enough to explain this.  In order for acceleration to occur, you need to apply a non-zero net force on the object (thank you Newton).

*More detailed, the net force on the baseball is pushing it away from the sun (obviously), and accelerating the ball.  The acceleration is exactly equal to the net difference between his force applied and the sun's gravitational force, divided by the mass of the ball.*
So every second that goes by, the ball is gaining that same amount of speed.

*Once the ball leaves the thrower's hand, it no longer feels the man's force overpowering the sun.  The net force now on the ball is now the only force on the ball and is purely that of the sun, BUT it still has the speed imparted to it by the thrower.*



Edit:  If there are any miscalculations, I can correct them if pointed out (using text rather than paper makes it hard to read).


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## KakuzuForever (Mar 13, 2013)

DaVizWiz said:


> What the hell are you talking about? When a CT core is floating in the vicinity the speed of a ranged attack is immediately negated- once it leaves the control of the caster the gravitational pull immediately takes over. Do you honestly believe those three attacks are that close in speed with added G-Force?



I am not arguing the speed of any of the attacks, I am arguing that your physics is a little off.

As above (in both my statement, and your statement....at least something that is correct), the gravitational pull does take over once it leaves the hands (since they are no longer holding it to give the exact opposite force to prevent acceleration), but as with my example above, once it leaves the hand, it is a violation of physics for the initial velocity to magically become zero.

*This is something you can take to the bank.*  Or your local college to ask a professor to confirm it for you, if you either decided not to read the math in the example above, or need more explaining of the math/physics.



DaVizWiz said:


> They are not in concert- the attacks aren't accurate enough from afar to suggest they were thrown directly toward the middle of the core.



This isn't something that needs to be argued about.

Suffice it to say that the major axis has the same direction, so compared to throwing it away from the core, my energy explanation still applies.

*The physics is still accurate, and also something that you can either take to the bank or to a college physics professor to explain it.*

I can go into more details concerning vector addition to explain this point, but I'd rather not to if I don't have to.

There is 1 very special case where your statement (even though physics wise still inaccurate), would be closest to apply.

Which is an initial velocity orthogonal to the Core's pull.....and if done correctly, this will give the satellites as I have stated (when not done correctly, it will follow an elliptical/helical decay path towards the center, depending on the exact values of the speed at which the attacks were thrown, and the force of gravity generated by the core).



DaVizWiz said:


> No it wasn't, Naruto suggested he may not be able to hit it because it was so small- and Itachi said you don't have to worry about hitting it- it will pull the attack in. Why would Naruto ask that if he wasn't confident his attack would be accurate from afar?



Sigh....yes it was.  But I believe you are mistaking what I was responding to you about.

I was arguing about  your use of Itachi's statement for support of nullifying velocity.  This is NOT regarding naruto or itachi, but arguments and "false premise".

Here is your quote again...

> It's velocity is undetermined- the gravity immediately stopped the initial velocity and pulled it toward the core at the force speed of the gravity. You don't add the speed of the technique to the force pull of the gravity- Itachi commented saying they didn't need to be accurate in using their Jutsu- suggesting they weren't exactly aiming for it. Thus, throwing even an inch off the linear path of the gravity suction would immediately cancel the speed of the technique and begin pulling it at the force velocity of the core. Since you have no proof they blasted the Jutsus completely accurate, you cannot prove their Jutsu's speed are equal



Your argument is set up to use itachi's statement to support (as evidence) why the initial velocity/speed is cancelled by the gravity suction.

But, as per false premise, you are using Itachi's statement to support a physically incorrect concept.

ie.  You are misinterpreting itachi's statement because of your inaccurate understanding of gravitational physics.



DaVizWiz said:


> Exactly. What you're suggesting is immediately defeated by the fact CT's pull is on an extreme level- once a Jutsu leaves the hands of the caster, CT immediately takes over. The ground was pulling itself up underneath the three ninja- several feet above them the G-force was likely on an insane level.
> 
> You have no evidence suggesting they were even remotely accurate in their ranged-bursts, all they're depicted doing is throwing and launching Jutsu above- there is no back-side panel view of their attacks being shot accurately. In support, Itachi's dialogue suggests they didn't even have to aim- leading me to believe they carelessly shot their Jutsu in a frantic outburst.



I don't care about their accuracy (that isn't in debate), I care about the velocity-nullifying gravity physics that you purported and how itachi's statement was somehow in support of that.



DaVizWiz said:


> It's canon Amy is more powerful- since it burns for 7 days and cannot be put out. He said it because at the time- it was the most powerful in the instance of instantly busting the CT core.



I don't have much left in me to argue, nor the effort to care, since ama vs magatama doesn't have a straight factual answer compared to that of physics (it is a manga afterall).

I would agree (as I assume you do) that his most powerful long range jutsu is dependent on what his needs for it are.


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## Mithos (Mar 14, 2013)

I can't see either version breaching all 3 gates. 

Triple Rashoumon wins.


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## efmp1987 (Jul 28, 2013)

Itachis 3-tomoe magatama will break through 1 gate, trash the second and slightly scratch the third.
Most often in these projectile jutsus the explosion caused is proportional to the amount of chakra infused in them. So bijuudama would be stronger than magatama.

I know Bijudama is stronger than magatama because I am an itachi worshipper (Hail!). If you don't have statues or sculptures of itachi in your house and altar of worship, then you're not yet on par with my Itachism.


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## Jagger (Jul 28, 2013)

efmp1987 said:


> I know Bijudama is stronger than magatama because I am an itachi worshipper (Hail!). If you don't have statues or sculptures of itachi in your house and altar of worship, then you're not yet on par with my Itachism.


No, it means we're more rational than you.


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## IpHr0z3nI (Jul 28, 2013)

Lol, I don't see any Uchiha jutsu bar "Madara's perfect Susano" possessing enough destructive or penetrating power to breach all three gates.

Maybe if Totsuka, or any Susano armament, was longer. They'd be able to power their way through with enough force.


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## trance (Jul 29, 2013)

Necroed like a mofo.


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