# Tsunade lost to Part 1 Kabuto



## MaruUchiha (Sep 20, 2019)

Tsunade met her match against someone that fled from Part 1 Kakashi twice















And she didn't spam Katsuyu like Sanin wankers claim

Reactions: Like 2


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## wooly Eullerex (Sep 20, 2019)

yeah, neither he or she are good at combat.
but they are medics, so...


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## Charmed (Sep 20, 2019)

well they're medics, they have limits.
Tsunade is obviously stronger than Kabuto, it's jsut that she was afraid of blood, and Kabuto was eating those pills.

It still troubles me that Kabuto smells his hand after touching her breasts... gross...


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## Hina uzumaki (Sep 20, 2019)

Hmm... Advantages of big bewbs


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## Topace (Sep 20, 2019)

At least she is alive.... 


Tell me what did they do with the fertilizer I mean obito ashes?


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## Ayala (Sep 20, 2019)

That's like 2 chapters Maru... Why this? Everyone already read those too


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## Femme (Sep 20, 2019)

All I see if tsunade playing around with a kabuto on steroids ,then about to finish the job but kill her but her plot fear of blood save kabuto


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## Symmetry (Sep 20, 2019)

The lack of context needed to make an actual argument on this is absurd. I have explained this fight many times, and I am surprised that in 2019 this is still a thing.

Tsunade lost to part one kabuto, yes.

Under circumstances stacked against her. Firstly this is pre will of fire tsunade. This is also part one tsunade. Part one Tsuande got heavily fatigued by simply opening her seal. WA Tsuande kept that open for hours. 

When tsunade fought kabuto, she was panting heavily before even fighting due to going on a rampage, so this was fatigued part one tsunade. Then kabuto pops a food pill, and he uses a Jutsu that literally means tsunade can’t touch his hands at any point.

So rusty, part one pre will of fire fatigued base tsunade lost to a buffed kabuto with pills who had a jutsu that made it so tsunade couldn’t touch his hands. Of course she lost wtf.

This is like me taking WA kakashi, then reverting him to his part one self, restricting his chidori, Then make him super tired, and put him up against vote Sasuke but make sasuke hyped up on pills and if kakashi touches sasuke’s hands he gets heavily nerfed. Ofc kakashi loses, but that  wouldn’t be indicative of his WA normal self now would it?

Literally needing a character many times over and buffing their opponent just to make them have a match conveys clearly the skill and power disparity.


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## Charmed (Sep 20, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> The lack of context needed to make an actual argument on this is absurd. I have explained this fight many times, and I am surprised that in 2019 this is still a thing.
> 
> Tsunade lost to part one kabuto, yes.
> 
> ...


I agree, but why was she still praising him and comparing him to her Prime Version (?)
It's like Tsunade herself was admitting to be inferior to Kabuto (she's obviously not, but still...)


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## Symmetry (Sep 20, 2019)

Charmed said:


> I agree, but why was she still praising him and comparing him to her Prime Version (?)
> It's like Tsunade herself was admitting to be inferior to Kabuto (she's obviously not, but still...)




Because he’s a top tier jounin fighter? Part one kakashi got eons of praise too. Besides hyping up on drugs doesn’t count for power.


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## Charmed (Sep 20, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> Because he’s a top tier jounin fighter?


he's kinda lame x'D




Orochimaru op said:


> Part one kakashi got eons of praise too


hmm let's not add another character, please. Stick to Kabutops and Tsunade!



Orochimaru op said:


> Besides hyping up on drugs doesn’t count for power.


Yeah, but I dunno if those pills make him more skilled. Tsunade was talking about his skill, and abot him being smart in battle, and even better than her.


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## Symmetry (Sep 20, 2019)

Charmed said:


> he's kinda lame x'D
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When I mention kakashi, I’m saying someone of kabutos cairns has gained lots of praise, because they deserve it. 

Kabuto skill can be attributed to him using chakra skalpels to fight with, which is very hax


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## Shazam (Sep 20, 2019)

WA Tsunade would smoke a dozen P1 Kabuto's


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## Charmed (Sep 20, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> Kabuto skill can be attributed to him using chakra skalpels to fight with, which is very hax


but you know she didn't mean his skill with chakra skalpels only...


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## Symmetry (Sep 20, 2019)

Charmed said:


> but you know she didn't mean his skill with chakra skalpels only...




That’s combat skill. Plus his young age


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## Charmed (Sep 20, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> That’s combat skill. Plus his young age


he's younger but Tsunade is only 53 (?) or so...
she's still young too! 50 = 30


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## oiety (Sep 20, 2019)

new thread idea; just post the entirety of naruto in your thread to give posters crucial info.


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## SakuraLover16 (Sep 21, 2019)

Part 1 Tsunade is eons weaker than WA Tsunade so this shouldn't even be used as any type of evidence.


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## Serene Grace (Sep 21, 2019)

You’re bad at making threads


Stop


Please

Reactions: Like 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 21, 2019)

This is a neg rep worthy thread. Also, if you're gonna post like a whole damn chapter please use spoiler tags.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Architect (Sep 21, 2019)

Tsunade lost because of her fear of blood and her rustiness, but what's important in their fight is the CQC exchange, where she got trashed.
Kabuto isn't Kakashi's peer. He has worse stats, arsenal and doesn't have sharingan and he ran away from him twice. Whatever other characters think of Kakashi, it must be based on his hype, past deeds and what Kakashi lets others know about himself, which is not much, given that "Kakashi himself doesn't make a display of his true strength" (DB1).


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2019)

This Tsunade had multiple power downs, consider :
-she was rusty
-her will was broken (a serious power down in a Shonen manga)
-she had bloodphobia (thus she couldn't use Kuchyose no Jutsu which requires blood) 
-for some reason she didn't use Byakugou as well.

If you remove a single one of these power downs, then she detinitively owns Kabuto in a one sided battle, if you remove all of them, she stands on a whole another level.


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

You guys can list all the obvious matchup reasons she lost, but it doesn't change how bad of a look this is.. You can give Part 1 Kabuto all the matchup advantages in the world and nobody worth a shit is losing to him


Cherry said:


> Stop
> 
> 
> Please


Keep dreaming my irrelevant friend


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## Shazam (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> You guys can list all the obvious matchup reasons she lost, but it doesn't change how bad of a look this is.. You can give Part 1 Kabuto all the matchup advantages in the world and nobody worth a shit is losing to him
> 
> Keep dreaming my irrelevant friend



Stop being a loser.

Loose Rock > Obito.


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## Speedyamell (Sep 21, 2019)

Wow. You'd literally have to shut down your whole brain to arrive at this conclusion..

Ignoring the heavy buffers on tsunade, which included
- Her being rusty, which resulted in a decline in her skills, endurance and stamina.
- Her fear of blood which is why katsuyu wasn't an option
- The fact that she was toying with Kabuto and didn't even take him seriously, as she didn't even use byakugō, only using SS regeneration when Oro started attacking..

And even with all of these, Kabuto knowing he was still no match still had to take a soldier pill, which vitalizes the body and provides a chakra boost, in order to keep up. And he could still have lost. if tsunade thought he was worth shit, she had the chance to kill him while he was immobilised by rashinsho.. instead of punching him, she could have easily cut his head off with a chakra scapel, use shosen to fuck up his chakra and kill him like she was going to do with Oro, or hell stab him in the eye with a kunai. But she didn't see him as much and simply slapped him aside like a kid. and even after he surprised her and overcame that, his head was still going to be punched off had he not stabbed himself and took advantage of another of her weaknesses..
Once she got over her fear of blood kabuto quickly became insignificant and orochimaru stepped in..
In the end what was shown in that fight was
Rusty Base P1 tsunade(w/o fear of blood) > Rusty tsunade w/fear of blood > Kabuto on ninja steroids > Kabuto.
And P2 tsunade is even much stronger than tsunade was at the end of the whole sannin scuffle.. not even w/byakugō amp.


You also literally went to find the worst scans with the crappiest translations on the internet lmao
Tsunade's remarks about kabuto was never about strength, it couldn't be as he never did anything strength related there. What she actually said was that his "jutsu instincts and sharpness" exceeded hers in her *youth*" I can even see the same thing applying to kakashi and jiraiya in a way.. doesn't mean shit in the end, as older tsunade >> teen self

Reactions: Like 2


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## Isaiah13000 (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> You guys can list all the obvious matchup reasons she lost, but it doesn't change how bad of a look this is.. You can give Part 1 Kabuto all the matchup advantages in the world and nobody worth a shit is losing to him
> 
> Keep dreaming my irrelevant friend


Do you purposely choose to act ignorant and biased? Or can you not help it?

Reactions: Like 2


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## t0xeus (Sep 21, 2019)

The dialogue between the characters heavily suggests that Tsunade is simply inferior to P1 Kabuto.

There is no making of excuses on Tsunade's side about hemophobia, no mention of "he is smacking my ass because of the pills", no nothing.

On the contrary, there is a line that suggests otherwise - Tsunade's complimenting Kabuto's abilities and evaluating them to be at a level higher than her prime's.

So there is really no room for excuses here, it is certainly a hard pill to swallow for some, but P1 Kabuto > P1 Tsunade is a very clear conclusion from their fight.

Non-hemophobia fire will Tsunade might give Kabuto more difficulty, but the result is the same.


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## Quipchaque (Sep 21, 2019)

If that punch on the last page you posted is the final blow that we see then the fight actually ended in a stalemate or rather ended unconcluded. Neither of the characters was k.o. or defeated in any other way.


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## SakuraLover16 (Sep 21, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> The dialogue between the characters heavily suggests that Tsunade is simply inferior to P1 Kabuto.
> 
> There is no making of excuses on Tsunade's side about hemophobia, no mention of "he is smacking my ass because of the pills", no nothing.
> 
> ...


 

She is talking about her prime 20-30 years ago. She didn't even have her seal then. Also she clearly didn't mean combat.

Reactions: Like 4


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## t0xeus (Sep 21, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> She is talking about her prime 20-30 years ago. She didn't even have her seal then. Also she clearly didn't mean combat.


Yeah and Prime Tsunade > P1 Tsunade

Otherwise the compliment doesn't make sense


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## Quipchaque (Sep 21, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> The dialogue between the characters heavily suggests that Tsunade is simply inferior to P1 Kabuto.
> 
> There is no making of excuses on Tsunade's side about hemophobia, no mention of "he is smacking my ass because of the pills", no nothing.
> 
> ...



The Dialogue would be contradicted by portrayal anyway because Tsunade is scalable to the level of Orochimaru (probably a bit lower than him but still in the same tier) while Kabuto was stated to be closer to Kakashi who shakes in front of Orochimaru.


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## ShinAkuma (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Tsunade met her match against someone that fled from Part 1 Kakashi twice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## t0xeus (Sep 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> The Dialogue would be contradicted by portrayal anyway because Tsunade is scalable to the level of Orochimaru (probably a bit lower than him but still in the same tier) while Kabuto was stated to be closer to Kakashi who shakes in front of Orochimaru.


Nope, P1 Tsunade is waaaay below Orochimaru at that point of time

Actually she'd scale to a tier above Sick Orochimaru at best


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## Quipchaque (Sep 21, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Nope, P1 Tsunade is waaaay below Orochimaru at that point of time
> 
> Actually she'd scale to a tier above Sick Orochimaru at best



Well you said "Tsunade" as if you were saying any version of her. P1 Tsunade is a different story probably can agree with that.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

I pity you, Maru. This is almost as bad as when you said she'd lose to VOTE1 genin Naruto and Sasuke.

@t0xeus I'm happy to see you've moved on from the Minato hate, at least, my friend.

Reactions: Like 2


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## t0xeus (Sep 21, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Well you said "Tsunade" as if you were saying any version of her. P1 Tsunade is a different story probably can agree with that.


Thought it's obvious as the thread is about her P1 version



BlackHeartedImp said:


> I pity you, Maru. This is almost as bad as when you said she'd lose to VOTE1 genin Naruto and Sasuke.
> 
> @t0xeus I'm happy to see you've moved on from the Minato hate, at least, my friend.


Never hated Minato

I just love canon and honesty more


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## SakuraLover16 (Sep 21, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Yeah and Prime Tsunade > P1 Tsunade
> 
> Otherwise the compliment doesn't make sense


Yeah but prime Tsunade before part one doesn't prime Tsunade during part 2 is my point. Also she is talking about his jutsu sharpness and instincts as a medic ninja. We see that even in her fallen state she was still beating him.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> I just love canon and honesty more





t0xeus said:


> Low or mid kage depending on how strictly you make borders in kage-bracket in your tier list


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## Tri (Sep 21, 2019)

Wow great thread, Maru! You know you’ve really inspired me to make a thread now...I think I’ll upload the entirety of Itachi vs Sasuke (without spoiler tags of course because who doesn’t like scrolling through my low quality scans?) and name it “Itachi did not actually want to win!!” personally I think that is an EPIC thread idea and will really get debates going.

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## Mad Scientist (Sep 21, 2019)

Charmed said:


> Tsunade is obviously stronger than Kabuto, it's jsut that she was afraid of blood


Perhaps, but one would think that after doing over  and being in a shinobi war and being a medic specialist that blood would be one of the last of her fears.


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## Charmed (Sep 21, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Perhaps, but one would think that after doing over  and being in a shinobi war and being a medic specialist that blood would be one of the last of her fears.


Yeah... but it's different when you lose people you love in the process, that's what happened to her.

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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Perhaps, but one would think that after doing over  and being in a shinobi war and being a medic specialist that blood would be one of the last of her fears.


Blood itself wasn't really the catalyst. She lost both her little brother and lover to injuries she could not heal, the hemophobia was a subconscious and involuntary side effect of her more prominent fear of losing her loved ones with their blood on her hands. Once she got over that larger fear, the hemophobia vanished with it, as we know.

So she wasn't scared of blood per say, she just associated it with her most prevalent emotional trauma. People often fear rather harmless things if a link to something else frightening can be formed to said item. I used to be scared of the dark, but that's because I associated darkness with the things I saw on TV as a kid.

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## Charmed (Sep 21, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> She wasn't scared of blood per say, she just associated it with her most prevalent emotional trauma.


Exactly this is what happened to her!




BlackHeartedImp said:


> I used to be scared of the dark, but that's because I associated darkness with the things I saw on TV as a kid.


and you still are, huh?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

Charmed said:


> Exactly this is what happened to her!
> 
> 
> 
> and you still are, huh?


No, I'm not. I sleep in pitch black the best now, and don't mind when it's dark and stormy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Sep 21, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> Perhaps, but one would think that after doing over  and being in a shinobi war and being a medic specialist that blood would be one of the last of her fears.


It’s explained in the manga why the sight of blood is traumatic for her, this wasn’t something that she was innately born with but gained after witnessing the horrible deaths of her brother and lover dan

It’s also the same reason why she thought the Hokage were foolish, given both her brother and lover had the same goal


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

@SakuraLover16 @Speedyamell can one of you explain how War Tsunade > Part 1 Tsunade?


BlackHeartedImp said:


> I pity you, Maru. This is almost as bad as when you said she'd lose to VOTE1 genin Naruto and Sasuke.


When the fuck did i ever say that? Show me where i ever said that or you're as dishonest as Worlds


Tri said:


> Wow great thread, Maru! You know you’ve really inspired me to make a thread now...I think I’ll upload the entirety of Itachi vs Sasuke (without spoiler tags of course because who doesn’t like scrolling through my low quality scans?) and name it “Itachi did not actually want to win!!” personally I think that is an EPIC thread idea and will really get debates going.


God get off my dick already


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## ~Kakashi~ (Sep 21, 2019)

A path of pain lost to genin Konohamaru.

Konohamaru > Pain > Kabuto > Tsunade confirmed?


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

~Kakashi~ said:


> A path of pain lost to genin Konohamaru.


When Pain didn't have killing intent, he was interrogating Konohamaru. Not the same, but nice try


~Kakashi~ said:


> Konohamaru > Pain > Kabuto > Tsunade confirmed?


Too bad i never said Part 1 Kabuto > Tsunade because of this, i just didn't go down a list of matchup advantages Kabuto had like Sanin wankers apparently wanted because that doesn't matter. Losing to Part 1 Kabuto under any circumstances is a bad look

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## ~Kakashi~ (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> When Pain didn't have killing intent, he was interrogating Konohamaru. Not the same, but nice try
> 
> Too bad i never said Part 1 Kabuto > Tsunade because of this, i just didn't go down a list of matchup advantages Kabuto had like Sanin wankers apparently wanted because that doesn't matter. Losing to Part 1 Kabuto under any circumstances is a bad look



P1 Kakashi also didn't have killing intent vs team 7, but still won.

P1 Kakashi > Konohamaru > Pain > Kabuto > Tsunade confirmed?


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

~Kakashi~ said:


> P1 Kakashi also didn't have killing intent vs team 7, but still won.



Wtf does this have to do with anything? Team 7 didn't have killing intent either they wanted the bells and were way weaker than Pain Arc Konohamaru anyway.. Even aside from that the two situations aren't comparable. Continue struggling to be a smartass


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> When the fuck did i ever say that? Show me where i ever said that or you're as dishonest as Worlds


It was quite a long time ago, when you were on that hideous train of thought that the stronger K11 kids could take her. I didn't find the exact thread, but I found a remnant of when you thought so. 
Thankfully, you've wizened up since then

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## ~Kakashi~ (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Wtf does this have to do with anything? Team 7 didn't have killing intent either and were way weaker than Pain Arc Konohamaru.. Even aside from that the two situations aren't comparable. Continue struggling to be a smartass




*Spoiler*: __ 



*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*
*Link Removed*






And while Konohamaru might be better than team 7, Kakashi also didn't use his sharingan but still humiliated them.

So the superiority is definitely confirmed.


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> It was quite a long time ago, when you were on that hideous train of thought that the stronger K11 kids could take her. I didn't find the exact thread, but I found a remnant of when you thought so


No, it never happened.. That thread doesn't exist which is why you "can't find it". Not even when i was new to the NBD and an extreme Sakura and Tsunade downplayer did i ever say that shit


BlackHeartedImp said:


> Thankfully, you've wizened up since then


And like i said this was when i first started in the NBD and didn't know what i was talking about half the time, but i can actually see where i was coming from with this one.. Tsunade lacks any speed feats that suggest she's reacting to 5th gate Lee's speed


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## SakuraLover16 (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> @SakuraLover16 @Speedyamell can one of you explain how War Tsunade > Part 1 Tsunade?


There is an extremely long list as to why but I can list a few examples.

*Chakra*​The amount of chakra Tsunade has compared to part one is incredibly massive she went from saying that basic medical ninjutsu took way too much chakra to protecting and healing whole villages and armies. One Creation Rebirth drained her considerably and now she is able to fight for a long time with it activated on top of healing and providing chakra for 4 people with massive reserves and sharing chakra that was able to boost attacks to incredibly high levels.

*Durability and Resilience*​Tsunade has pretty incredible feats consisting of surviving Pain's village busting attack in base while protecting thousands of people as well as going through Mabui's heavenly transfer in base while only sustaining minor injuries when she was supposed to be ripped apart. She has survived injuries that would kill about 98% of the verse.
*Combat*​Even while rusty in part 1 Tsunade was able to blitz the fastest of the three summons Manda with a summon sized blade that she picked up and disappeared with. Her strength is enough to kill most people and her Byakugou enhanced strength was enough to crack and bust the ribcage Susanoo. She punched one Susanoo clone so hard that its head went completely backwards and whatnot.

There is more stuff but that requires a whole lot of time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> No, it never happened.. That thread doesn't exist which is why you "can't find it". Not even when i was new to the NBD and an extreme Sakura and Tsunade downplayer did i ever say that shit
> 
> And like i said this was when i first started in the NBD and didn't know what i was talking about half the time, but i can actually see where i was coming from with this one.. Tsunade lacks any speed feats that suggest she's reacting to 5th gate Lee's speed


I distinctly remember you saying CS2 kid Sasuke could beat her because of sharingan precog and black chidori shenanigans. Im not lying either, I have 0 reason to. If I wanted to make you look bad or anything petty like that, I could've just used something more recent.


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## MaruUchiha (Sep 21, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> I distinctly remember you saying CS2 kid Sasuke could beat her because of sharingan precog and black chidori shenanigans. Im not lying either, I have 0 reason to.


I probably don't remember because this was a long time ago when i was still new and a Sakura/Tsunade downplayer to the extreme. So it's pretty irrelevant to bring up, i'm sure we've all said some dumb shit when we were new


BlackHeartedImp said:


> If I wanted to make you look bad or anything petty like that, I could've just used something more recent.


Highly doubt that. Anything you bring up probably isn't even bad, it's just something you personally don't like and are free to debate me on anytime


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## Mad Scientist (Sep 21, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Blood itself wasn't really the catalyst. She lost both her little brother and lover to injuries she could not heal, the hemophobia was a subconscious and involuntary side effect of her more prominent fear of losing her loved ones with their blood on her hands. Once she got over that larger fear, the hemophobia vanished with it, as we know.
> 
> So she wasn't scared of blood per say, she just associated it with her most prevalent emotional trauma. People often fear rather harmless things if a link to something else frightening can be formed to said item. I used to be scared of the dark, but that's because I associated darkness with the things I saw on TV as a kid.


That's an acceptable reason, as long as their passing happened close to when she retired.


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## Symmetry (Sep 21, 2019)

Architect said:


> but what's important in their fight is the CQC exchange, where she got trashed.



Because kabuto was hyped on drugs and he had a Jutsu that made it so Tsuande literally couldn’t make contact with his hands. That’s a super hax cqc move. 


Seriously a battle of taijutsu where if the enemies hands touches you means you lose actual body functions is hax af, but ppl ignore this because reasons

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> I probably don't remember because this was a long time ago when i was still new and a Sakura/Tsunade downplayer to the extreme. So it's pretty irrelevant to bring up, i'm sure we've all said some dumb shit when we were new


It was the first thing that popped up in my head with the Tsunade/Kabuto fiasco you've recently started. It's relevant to the discussion between you and I, nothing more. 


MaruUchiha said:


> Highly doubt that. Anything you bring up probably isn't even bad, it's just something you personally don't like and are free to debate me on anytime


Not bad in _your _eyes, anyway. Like I said, though, I have no interest in flinging mud at you nonsensically. I just can't ignore when people leave out literally all context in an attempt to downgrade a character. I don't subscribe to the sannin cult, but I also am not partial to simply saying "he won/she lost" while disregarding circumstances.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Sep 21, 2019)

Mad Scientist said:


> That's an acceptable reason, as long as their passing happened close to when she retired.


She retired immediately after Dan (her lover) died and took his niece (Shizune) with her.


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## Mad Scientist (Sep 21, 2019)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> She retired immediately after Dan (her lover) died and took his niece (Shizune) with her.


Crap, you figured it out, I didn't even read the manga!


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## Clowe (Sep 21, 2019)

Context much? Things don't just happen in a vacuum,

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Sep 21, 2019)

Its almost like Maru genuinely cant help making his every opinion so garbage it lowers the IQ of anyone who reads it


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## Onyx Emperor (Sep 21, 2019)

You forgot the most important scan:
But you also forgot that Tsunade had trauma and was afraid of blood, so it doesn't count at all.


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## Maverick04 (Sep 21, 2019)

Kabuto surely outninja'd her in that exchange and got her praise, rusty or otherwise. He made use of his ninja tools efficiently (food pill) and took advantage of her haemophobia. Whereas Tsunade was being wreckless. Also Kabuto stated that he wasn't good at close quarter combat so this feat is even more impressive. But would this Kabuto pull something like that off against a Tsunade who has regained her will of fire and using Byakugou? Hell no. He would get bodied.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jesusus (Oct 29, 2019)

Shazam said:


> WA Tsunade would smoke a dozen P1 Kabuto's


Oh yeah i forget she got stronger from all that sitting at a desk training she did as hokage for 3 years


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## Symmetry (Oct 29, 2019)

jesusus said:


> Oh yeah i forget she got stronger from all that sitting at a desk training she did as hokage for 3 years




No, she got the same plot buff kakashi did 


Both did fuck all to get the boost, they just got handed it


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> No, she got the same plot buff kakashi did
> 
> 
> Both did fuck all to get the boost, they just got handed it


She clearly had time to train if she had time to train Sakura and Ino. Her base reserves as well as her seal increased and she regained her will of fire. I mean no one in their right mind would think she only sat at the desk for three years.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

jesusus said:


> Oh yeah i forget she got stronger from all that sitting at a desk training she did as hokage for 3 years


Incoming Sanin wankers and their asspull excuses for how Tsunade somehow got stronger sitting at a desk when even Hokage Naruto got rusty

Reactions: Like 1


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> No, she got the same plot buff kakashi did
> 
> 
> Both did fuck all to get the boost, they just got handed it





SakuraLover16 said:


> She clearly had time to train if she had time to train Sakura and Ino. Her base reserves as well as her seal increased and she regained her will of fire. I mean no one in their right mind would think she only sat at the desk for three years.


Right on time


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## Symmetry (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Right on time




Two people disagreeing.........what an unfathomable prospect.


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## Symmetry (Oct 29, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> She clearly had time to train if she had time to train Sakura and Ino. Her base reserves as well as her seal increased and she regained her will of fire. I mean no one in their right mind would think she only sat at the desk for three years.




Will of fire yes, train idk about that.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Incoming Sanin wankers and their asspull excuses for how Tsunade somehow got stronger sitting at a desk when even Hokage Naruto got rusty


I don’t know how to make inferences which is a second grade skill 


Orochimaru op said:


> Will of fire yes, train idk about that.


Well isn’t it more logical that she made time to train considering she had enough time to train two disciples, polish her medical ninjutsu, and introduce automatic healing without the use of seals?

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (Oct 29, 2019)

Tsunade being able to train is implicit via the fact she developed byakugou. It didn't happen on its own. 

How long or how much training is unknown but she must have trained.


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## Kisaitaparadise (Oct 29, 2019)

Orochimaru op said:


> Two people disagreeing.........what an unfathomable prospect.


Make that 22,000 plus Kishimoto


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

*Literally posted the fight where she loses against Part 1 Kabuto*

*Still getting Disagree and Funny ratings*


Just shows how delusional Sanin wankers are.. There's no reasoning with them man

Reactions: Like 1


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## Azula (Oct 29, 2019)

Tsunade was sending Susanoo flying so I am pretty sure Kabuto would be just straight killed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

Azula said:


> Tsunade was sending Susanoo flying so I am pretty sure Kabuto would be just straight killed.


The fight is right there in the OP dude, I can't make this shit up. She didn't send him flying. Now lemme guess "she was rusty", "she was tired", "soldier pill", etc


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

Maru and his lack of acknowledging context everyone.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Maru and his lack of acknowledging context everyone.


"acknowledging context" = asspulling excuses for why she lost

You claimed she's High Kage Tier. No amount of rust in the world would make her lose to a fodder like Part 1 Kabuto if she was that strong, can't remember your other bad excuses but I'm sure none of those add up either

Reactions: Like 1


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## Symmetry (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> *Literally posted the fight where she loses against Part 1 Kabuto*
> 
> *Still getting Disagree and Funny ratings*
> 
> ...




Literally no one says she didn’t lose to kabuto. 

but reasonable consider why she lost.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> "acknowledging context" = asspulling excuses for why she lost


Acknowledging Context= Basic Reading Comprehension


MaruUchiha said:


> You claimed she's High Kage Tier. No amount of rust in the world would make her lose to a fodder like Part 1 Kabuto if she was that strong, can't remember your other bad excuses but I'm sure none of those add up either


Maru....Maru...Maru. Let me ask you a question in what world did I say that she was always high Kage level? I didn’t even really say that I ranked her as high mid to low high which is my ranking of CURRENT Tsunade not part 1 and not young but WA.

You keep squealing that she lost to Part 1 Kabuto while avoiding acknowledging everything else like the fact that you are talking about part 1 Tsunade along with the other info regarding the fight and matchup.

I can make a similar claim about how Obito lost to a rock while ignoring that he is basically an entire different character. I can also say “l don’t understand why people are making every excuse for why Obito lost to a rock” and hold on to that dumb statement because that’s exactly who he lost to.


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## Shazam (Oct 29, 2019)

jesusus said:


> Oh yeah i forget she got stronger from all that sitting at a desk training she did as hokage for 3 years



Nobody said she did. But we didnt see her use Byakugo in Part 1. And you simple minded fools act like having blood phobia wasnt apart of any context, so..


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## Azula (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> The fight is right there in the OP dude, I can't make this shit up. She didn't send him flying. Now lemme guess "she was rusty", "she was tired", "soldier pill", etc


Diifferent hits have diiferent power behind them, she wasn't aiming to kill Kabuto, unlesss both Kabuto and Susanoo got hit with the same power in which case Kabuto is stronger than Susanoo.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I can make a similar claim about how Obito lost to a rock while ignoring that he is basically an entire different character. I can also say “l don’t understand why people are making every excuse for why Obito lost to a rock” and hold on to that dumb statement because that’s exactly who he lost to.


This is getting pathetic now.... You're equating Obito sacrificing himself to save Kakashi to Tsunade losing to a fodder.... I think we're done here


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## Shazam (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> This is getting pathetic now.... You're equating Obito sacrificing himself to save Kakashi to Tsunade losing to a fodder.... I think we're done here



You have Part 1 Kabuto > WA Tsunade?


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

Shazam said:


> You have Part 1 Kabuto > WA Tsunade?


Where did I ever say Part 1 Kabuto > Tsunade? How many times do I need to acknowledge the matchup for you Sanin wankers to be satisfied? But that doesn't change the fact she still lost to Part 1 Kabuto which is pathetic. And even before the blood phobia came into play she was having trouble against him. Again that's pathetic especially for someone you guys claim is upper Mid Kage Tier and even High Kage Tier


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> This is getting pathetic now.... You're equating Obito sacrificing himself to save Kakashi to Tsunade losing to a fodder.... I think we're done here


What!!!? Is that....Context!!! No it must be mindless wank because he lost to a rock. A hypocrite I see

Reactions: Like 1


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## jesusus (Oct 29, 2019)

HAHA of course we validate Tsunade's desperate Susanoo feats but Susanoo busting Hirudora is a no go and can only beat Part 1 Konohamaru if he's lucky.


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## Francyst (Oct 29, 2019)

What is will of fire? Is this an undocumented kekkai genkai?


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## jesusus (Oct 29, 2019)

Francyst said:


> What is will of fire? Is this an undocumented kekkai genkai?


Exclusive to Tsunade, it boosts her Kuchiyose to S rank lethal, A4 level speeds and equal to Kakashi in IQ.


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## Draco Bolton (Oct 29, 2019)

Tsunade vs Kabulol is really a clown fight.


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## t0xeus (Oct 29, 2019)

Yes he did defeat her

But I don't remember the context of what led up to this fight, since Femme usually says something about Tsunade not sleeping for 6 days before this fight or whatever the nerf implication was

Is it true or is she making it up?

Because that could excuse her being this bad in CQC


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Yes he did defeat her
> 
> But I don't remember the context of what led up to this fight, since Femme usually says something about Tsunade not sleeping for 6 days before this fight or whatever the nerf implication was
> 
> ...


I wouldn't listen to a single Sanin wanker or their excuses about this fight.. Have you read some of the great lengths SakuraLover and Orochimaru op are going to justify this pathetic antifeat? I wouldn't doubt flatout lying is too low for them at this point


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## Marvel (Oct 29, 2019)

Charmed said:


> well they're medics, they have limits.
> Tsunade is obviously stronger than Kabuto, it's jsut that she was afraid of blood, and Kabuto was eating those pills.
> 
> It still troubles me that Kabuto smells his hand after touching her breasts... gross...


He does??

Reactions: Like 1


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## riousrain (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Incoming Sanin wankers and their asspull excuses for how Tsunade somehow got stronger sitting at a desk when even Hokage Naruto got rusty


Part 1 Tsunade:
Gets tired chasing and fighting Kabuto and Orochimaru.
Gets weakened after using 1 creation rebirth.

Part 2 Tsunade:
Heals the whole village (thousands of people) from CST.
Develops Byakugo to allow continuous creation rebirth with no hand seals.
Fights for a whole day against Susano'o clad Madara.'
Breaks Susanoó armor and Susanoó swords.
Continues fighting despite getting hit with 2 Susanoó swords.
Aside from healing herself, healed the other kages as well during the Madara fight

Part 2 Tsunade looks a hell lot stronger to me dude. Obviously you don't. I wonder who has a problem.



MaruUchiha said:


> But that doesn't change the fact she still lost to Part 1 Kabuto which is pathetic. And even before the blood phobia came into play she was having trouble against him. Again that's pathetic especially for someone you guys claim is upper Mid Kage Tier and even High Kage Tier


You seem to have problems comprehending that Tsunade's rustiness is legit and a big factor why her part 1 fight went the way it did. Tsunade's rustiness in part 1 are facts. Jiraiya commented on it. Tsunade commented on it. For some reason you just can't accept that. Or maybe you're choosing not to. Her rustiness becomes even more obvious if you compare Part 1 and Part 2 Tsunade like I did above.


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## t0xeus (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> I wouldn't listen to a single Sanin wanker or their excuses about this fight.. Have you read some of the great lengths SakuraLover and Orochimaru op are going to justify this pathetic antifeat? I wouldn't doubt flatout lying is too low for them at this point


They're my friends, they wouldn't lie to me


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> They're my friends, they wouldn't lie to me


Just pay no mind to Maru...


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

riousrain said:


> Part 1 Tsunade:
> Gets tired chasing and fighting Kabuto and Orochimaru.
> Gets weakened after using 1 creation rebirth.
> 
> ...


Cool, she got more stamina. Doesn't change her combat abilities, just means she can be overrated longer


riousrain said:


> You seem to have problems comprehending that Tsunade's rustiness is legit and a big factor why her part 1 fight went the way it did. Tsunade's rustiness in part 1 are facts dude. Jiraiya commented on it. Tsunade commented on it. For some reason you just can't accept that. Or maybe you're choosing not to. Her rustiness becomes even more obvious if you compare Part 1 and Part 2 Tsunade like I did above.


And once again how much less rusty can she get rotting in the Hokage office? This is something that even effected a God Tier like Hokage Naruto, but you guys think Tsunade is exempt from this?


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## riousrain (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Cool, she got more stamina. Doesn't change her combat abilities, just means she can be overrated longer


Lol. Way to equate all of the above as simply getting "more stamina". Obvious downplay.



MaruUchiha said:


> And once again how much less rusty can she get rotting in the Hokage office? This is something that even effected a God Tier like Hokage Naruto, but you guys think Tsunade is exempt from this?


I don't know what happened to Naruto but you have people like Gaara who have continuously gotten stronger despite rotting in the Kazekage office  There goes your kage = rusty argument.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

riousrain said:


> Lol. Way to equate all of the above as simply getting "more stamina". Obvious downplay.


Huh?? That's completely all that adds up to



riousrain said:


> I don't know what happened to Naruto but you have people like Gaara who have continuously gotten stronger despite rotting in the Kazekage office  There goes your kage = rusty argument.


Gaara was a fucking teenager that hadn't reached his full potential yet unlike Tsunade or Hokage Naruto dude


Btw what I'm talking about is Naruto and Kurama both stating he's rusty in the Boruto era from rotting in the Hokage office

Reactions: Like 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Gaara was a fucking teenager that hadn't reached his full potential yet unlike Tsunade or Hokage Naruto dude


But he was also behind his desk the whole time which is the crux of your argument.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 29, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> But he was also behind his desk the whole time which is the crux of your argument.


The crux of my argument for someone that is already a grown up and reached the roof of their potential


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> The crux of my argument for someone that is already a grown up and reached the roof of their potential


Except she wasn’t at the roof of her potential if she was twenty years out of practice.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

And older people can still show growth.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Francyst (Oct 29, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Yes he did defeat her
> 
> But I don't remember the context of what led up to this fight, since Femme usually says something about Tsunade not sleeping for 6 days before this fight or whatever the nerf implication was
> 
> ...


>Femme
>True

...also is that another debuff I see? When did Kishimoto add Sleep Deprivation to the game


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## t0xeus (Oct 29, 2019)

Francyst said:


> >Femme
> >True
> 
> ...also is that another debuff I see? When did Kishimoto add Sleep Deprivation to the game


Well but how would she make up a random 6 days sleep deprivation debuff

Has to be based on something

She said that Tsunade was hangover and did not sleep for a week or something


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## MShadows (Oct 29, 2019)

Kabuto beat a nerfed Tsunade. 

Pit him against the true Tsunade that we saw during the war and he'd lose his head in an instant


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 29, 2019)

MShadows said:


> Kabuto beat a nerfed Tsunade.
> 
> Pit him against the true Tsunade that we saw during the war and he'd lose his head in an instant


Not even his head he would just be space dust.


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## Kisaitaparadise (Oct 29, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Well but how would she make up a random 6 days sleep deprivation debuff
> 
> Has to be based on something
> 
> She said that Tsunade was hangover and did not sleep for a week or something


Why would she lie about Tsunade being god teir and Gai being below kage? She should've took that L off her bucket list.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Well but how would she make up a random 6 days sleep deprivation debuff
> 
> Has to be based on something
> 
> She said that Tsunade was hangover and did not sleep for a week or something


Again, I think you should see some of the desperate lengths these Sanin wankers are going to for any excuse possible to justify this.. I wouldn't be surprised if "she stubbed her left toe" is next up. Femme is probably full of shit


MShadows said:


> Kabuto beat a nerfed Tsunade.
> 
> Pit him against the true Tsunade that we saw during the war and he'd lose his head in an instant


And just how much stronger is this "True Tsunade"? I don't remember seeing her at all in Shippuden


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Not even his head he would just be space dust.


Man, this "True Tsunade" sure would've been useful against Edo Madara.. She probably wouldn't have been the least  valuable player


This is almost as bad as "Prime Hiruzen"


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> The crux of my argument for someone that is already a grown up and reached the roof of their potential


So to downplay Tsunade, you limited her potential for improvement based on her age? You have Adult Gaara who is arguably stronger than WA Gaara, older ninjas like WA A4 who has maintained his physicality and power despite "rotting" in the kage office, and Orochimaru who is possibly stronger than ever.

Flawed logic, especially when you apply that in a world of ninjas.



MaruUchiha said:


> Again, I think you should see some of the desperate lengths these Sanin wankers are going to for any excuse possible to justify this.. I wouldn't be surprised if "she stubbed her left toe" is next up. Femme is probably full of shit
> 
> And just how much stronger is this "True Tsunade"? I don't remember seeing her at all in Shippuden




Differences between Part 1 Tsunade and Part 2 Tsunade have literally been listed for you yet you go back to this reasoning. Refusing to acknowledge the factual improvements between the two.

The desperate one here is you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Phenomenon (Oct 30, 2019)

I'm sure the outcome of their fight had obvious conditions throughout the whole scenario.

Tsunade had reasons and Kabuto was a lucky bastard, Tsunade not nerfed would neg him.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

riousrain said:


> So to downplay Tsunade, you limited her potential for improvement based on her age?


No, it's the fact she actually didn't improve much from there. Name me one significant powerup she got after she became Hokage, and no I don't mean improved stamina. That's downplay to acknowledge she clearly has reached the roof of her potential? Does she have Rinnegan in the Boruto era or some shit?


riousrain said:


> You have Adult Gaara who is arguably stronger than WA Gaara


Again, War Gaara was a 16 year old that clearly hadn't reached his full potential



riousrain said:


> WA A4 who has maintained his physicality and power despite "rotting" in the kage office


Where did I say they get weaker? I only said they get rusty, and this is something that effected even Hokage Naruto. Tsunade is not exempt from this no matter how much you wanna wank her


riousrain said:


> and Orochimaru who is possibly stronger than ever


Yea, after becoming young again



riousrain said:


> Differences between Part 1 Tsunade and Part 2 Tsunade have literally been listed for you yet you go back to this reasoning. Refusing to acknowledge the factual improvements between the two.
> 
> The desperate one here is you.


Again, she got more stamina. Nowhere near as much of an improvement as you guys try to make it


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

AJBeckyBlissRollins said:


> I'm sure the outcome of their fight had obvious conditions throughout the whole scenario.


And I never denied this


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## MShadows (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Again, I think you should see some of the desperate lengths these Sanin wankers are going to for any excuse possible to justify this.. I wouldn't be surprised if "she stubbed her left toe" is next up. Femme is probably full of shit
> 
> And just how much stronger is this "True Tsunade"? I don't remember seeing her at all in Shippuden


Do you believe P1 Kabuto could've held his own against the Susano'o clones or even do as good as Tsunade against Edo Madara?


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## PocketGod (Oct 30, 2019)

It's sad that this battle is used to make Tsunade seem weak instead of making Kabuto seem strong. Poor guy.


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## Phenomenon (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> And I never denied this


Your kind of rewriting it in your own image though.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Man, this "True Tsunade" sure would've been useful against Edo Madara.. She probably wouldn't have been the least valuable player


That true Tsunade sure was very useful.


MaruUchiha said:


> Again, War Gaara was a 16 year old that clearly hadn't reached his full potential





MaruUchiha said:


> Where did I say they get weaker? I only said they get rusty, and this is something that effected even Hokage Naruto. Tsunade is not exempt from this no matter how much you wanna wank her


Classic goalpost shifting your argument went from “How did she improve any from sitting behind a desk for three years” to “Well she had reached her full potential and Gaara hadn’t” they were both sitting at desks right? So why is he any different from her when it comes to being rusty? Tsunade behind her desk has also improved her stamina, taijutsu, speed, reactions, and chakra. She went from breathing hard after chasing Orochimaru and Kabuto to fighting full blown Susanoo clones for hours without being overwhelmed. The Raikage commented that she was _*getting *_sloppy which means that before that point her combat style was polished she even counters his new claim by saying that she is now fighting at the highest level because she could no longer afford to conserve strength she even says that there was no higher level than what she was currently doing. Even upon being teleported by Mabui’s jutsu she was able to react to Madara and kick beneath his guard. So yes obviously she improved from part 1 to part 2 at her desk.

Reactions: Like 1


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> No, it's the fact she actually didn't improve much from there. Name me one significant powerup she got after she became Hokage, and no I don't mean improved stamina. That's downplay to acknowledge she clearly has reached the roof of her potential? Does she have Rinnegan in the Boruto era or some shit?


You've seen her activate Byakugo, fight and survive the 5 Susanoó and heal thousands of villagers in Part 2 and you think "she didn't improve much from there" compared to Part 1 Tsunade where she got tired after 1 creation rebirth. You are out of hand.



MaruUchiha said:


> Again, War Gaara was a 16 year old that clearly hadn't reached his full potential





MaruUchiha said:


> Where did I say they get weaker? I only said they get rusty, and this is something that effected even Hokage Naruto. Tsunade is not exempt from this no matter how much you wanna wank her
> 
> Yea, after becoming young again


You say "War Gaara was a 16 year old that clearly hadn't reached his full potential" which brings us to Adult Gaara with no signs of slowing down, yet you keep on bringing up Hokage Naruto and how he got rusty when they are *around the same age.* Wow. You're reaching too much here, Maru.

Point is, whatever rustiness happened to Naruto in the kage seat does not apply to every other kage and definitely doesn't apply to Tsunade when her feats in Part 2 are several times better than her Part 1 feats.



MaruUchiha said:


> Again, she got more stamina. Nowhere near as much of an improvement as you guys try to make it


Lol @ "more stamina" when she has also blitzed Mei's kage-level casting time and has shown some of the best resilience feats in the manga in the Madara fight.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

MShadows said:


> Do you believe P1 Kabuto could've held his own against the Susano'o clones or even do as good as Tsunade against Edo Madara?


First of all where did I say Part 1 Kabuto is stronger or even as strong as Tsunade? I don't have to point out the matchup advantages Kabuto had just because it makes Tsunade wankers feel better about the fact she lost to a fodder. Second of all Edo Madara was not serious against the Gokage until Perfect Susanoo came out and this should be obvious.. You don't actually think Tsunade stands a chance against 5 different legged v4 Susanoos from a serious Edo Madara do you? He wasn't even using Fire Style, Wood Style, meteors, etc


AJBeckyBlissRollins said:


> Your kind of rewriting it in your own image though.


Not at all whatsoever. I said she lost to Part 1 Kabuto which she did and posted the fight. Simple as that. I didn't twist the narrative. You simply don't like she lost to fodder regardless of the circumstances and you should take that up with Kishi not me


SakuraLover16 said:


> Classic goalpost shifting your argument went from “How did she improve any from sitting behind a desk for three years” to “Well she had reached her full potential and Gaara hadn’t” they were both sitting at desks right?


Huh? I didn't goalpost shift at all.. Those are simply two different points I've made responding to two different arguments


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

riousrain said:


> You've seen her activate Byakugo, fight and survive the 5 Susanoó and heal thousands of villagers in Part 2 and you think "she didn't improve much from there" compared to Part 1 Tsunade where she got tired after 1 creation rebirth. You are out of hand


Again, all your proving is she improved in stamina which is not a very significant improvement when it comes to power level/battle. And another thing Edo Madara wasn't serious with those 25 Susanoo clones and that should be obvious but when is logic ever applied when it comes to Sanin wank so who am I kidding?


riousrain said:


> You say "War Gaara was a 16 year old that clearly hadn't reached his full potential" which brings us to Adult Gaara with no signs of slowing down, yet you keep on bringing up Hokage Naruto and how he got rusty when they are *around the same age.*


O..k..? I never said they can't improve, that was only my point for Tsunade since she already reached her full potential unlike Gaara or Naruto.. Getting rusty is something completely different


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Huh? I didn't goalpost shift at all.. Those are simply two different points I've made responding to two different arguments


But you did shift regardless your point went from she was sitting at her desk and since Naruto got rusty sitting behind it she should have as well. The other poster said then how did BOS Gaara get stronger when he was sitting at his desk until the War Arc. You then claimed that it was because his potential was different because he was younger but your argument was originally how could someone improve behind a desk.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Again, all your proving is she improved in stamina which is not a very significant improvement when it comes to power level/battle. And another thing Edo Madara wasn't serious with those 25 Susanoo clones and that should be obvious but when is logic ever applied when it comes to Sanin wank so who am I kidding?


Then counter my post. I have outlined some feats. Madara may not have been serious but he has always gone for the kill whenever he has had a chance and ultimately had everything he threw out countered by the Gokage. He even used PS twice after he told them everyone who ever saw it even once died (I think). Don’t fall back on the wank argument because ultimately it just makes your argument look worse not ours.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> But you did shift regardless your point went from she was sitting at her desk and since Naruto got rusty sitting behind it she should have as well. The other poster said then how did BOS Gaara get stronger when he was sitting at his desk until the War Arc. You then claimed that it was because his potential was different because he was younger but your argument was originally how could someone improve behind a desk.


Again, I never switched my stance because my first point still stands. However it only applies for kages that are grown and already reached their full potential not a fucking 16 year old that still hasn't reached his full potential


MaruUchiha said:


> I never said they can't improve, that was only my point for Tsunade since she already reached her full potential unlike Gaara or Naruto.. Getting rusty is something completely different


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Again, all your proving is she improved in stamina which is not a very significant improvement when it comes to power level/battle. And another thing Edo Madara wasn't serious with those 25 Susanoo clones and that should be obvious but when is logic ever applied when it comes to Sanin wank so who am I kidding?



Here is something you left out in your quote:


riousrain said:


> Lol @ "more stamina" when she has also *blitzed Mei's kage-level casting time *and has shown *some of the best resilience feats in the manga* in the Madara fight.





MaruUchiha said:


> O..k..? I never said they can't improve, that was only my point for Tsunade since she already reached her full potential unlike Gaara or Naruto.. Getting rusty is something completely different


Your point is that Tsunade can't improve since she already reached her full potential, when you have already been presented with Part 2, near end of story feats that factually shows Hokage Tsunade is several times better than her Part 1 self? You're going against what the manga told us Maru.


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> Again, I never switched my stance because my first point still stands. However it only applies for kages that are grown and already reached their full potential not a fucking 16 year old that still hasn't reached his full potential


Your first point doesn’t stand in fact it fell flat on its face when he brought up the point that all Gaara has done in part two is sit behind his desk which was your first point.


MaruUchiha said:


> And once again how much less rusty can she get rotting in the Hokage office? This is something that even effected a God Tier like Hokage Naruto, but you guys think Tsunade is exempt from this?


Was this not your original argument?


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## Phenomenon (Oct 30, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> First of all where did I say Part 1 Kabuto is stronger or even as strong as Tsunade? I don't have to point out the matchup advantages Kabuto had just because it makes Tsunade wankers feel better about the fact she lost to a fodder. Second of all Edo Madara was not serious against the Gokage until Perfect Susanoo came out and this should be obvious.. You don't actually think Tsunade stands a chance against 5 different legged v4 Susanoos from a serious Edo Madara do you? He wasn't even using Fire Style, Wood Style, meteors, etc
> 
> Not at all whatsoever. I said she lost to Part 1 Kabuto which she did and posted the fight. Simple as that. I didn't twist the narrative. You simply don't like she lost to fodder regardless of the circumstances and you should take that up with Kishi not me
> 
> Huh? I didn't goalpost shift at all.. Those are simply two different points I've made responding to two different arguments


I wouldn't say P1 Kabuto was fodder, He was compared to Kakashi at the very least.

When one character is losing to another because they are 20 yrs rusty from any shinobi contact and have their Phobia taken advantage of from another medical prodigy who needed to use a boost, Had enough knowledge, Yet still couldn't successfully kill her off, It's written that way for a reason and that's because under normal circumstances he'd be outmatched against her at that point.

See Itachi vs Sasuke for another loose example except it was made clear by Obito that Itachi would have outright killed Sasuke had he been remotely serious, One character gets hindered in scenarios like this for that reason there's literally no other argument to be made.


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## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2019)

Honestly not many convincing arguments so far by the Tsunade stan 

I have hard time believing Tsunade improved significantly in between P1-post firewill and P2, literally nothing indicates that

Unless you take power inflation in WA seriously at face value

She is "master at evasion" and is the only one who gets not one, but TWO Susanoo swords stuck in her torso during the 5 clones fight

Not even Mei who is in your opinion "slower" than Tsunade performed that badly against the Susanoo clones

And Tsunade is the one who should be exceling there as she likes CQC while Mei prefers some distance


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## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2019)

Also bear in mind this:

Rusty Tsunade got manhandled by an opponent who is equal to Rusty Kakashi


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Honestly not many convincing arguments so far by the Tsunade stan






t0xeus said:


> I have hard time believing Tsunade improved significantly in between P1-post firewill and P2, literally nothing indicates that
> 
> Unless you take power inflation in WA seriously at face value
> 
> ...


Okay. Tsunade's improvements in Part 2 are labeled as result of power inflation. Power inflation definitely played a factor to her showings in the war arc. But getting tired from healing yourself (Part 1) compared to healing thousands in Part 2 can't simply be linked to power inflation, imo.

Focusing on the 5 Susanoó fight to compare the Gokage, Tsunade, along with Gaara and Onoki are the only ones who *didn't need help* so they don't get killed.

Mei needed saving from Gaara so she doesn't get stabbed and killed by Susanoó.

A4 needed saving from Onoki so he doesn't get 5x stabbed by Susanoó after getting genjutsu-ed by Madara:


Without help from Gaara and Onoki, Mei and A4 would have been killed, worse than Tsunade's condition. Meanwhile, Tsunade, Gaara, and Onoki were fighting independently.

Reactions: Like 2


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## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2019)

riousrain said:


> Okay. Tsunade's improvements in Part 2 are labeled as result of power inflation. Power inflation definitely played a factor to her showings in the war arc. But getting tired from healing yourself (Part 1) compared to healing thousands in Part 2 can't simply be linked to power inflation, imo.
> 
> Focusing on the 5 Susanoó fight to compare the Gokage, Tsunade, along with Gaara and Onoki are the only ones who *didn't need help* so they don't get killed.
> 
> ...


1) Increase in stamina is precisely what happened to everyone in WA and what is generally attributed to power inflation, sweetie

2) Nothing indicates those were the only times Gokage helped each other, the large part of that fight was off-panel.


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> 1) Increase in stamina is precisely what happened to everyone in WA and what is generally attributed to power inflation, sweetie
> 
> 2) Nothing indicates those were the only times Gokage helped each other, the large part of that fight was off-panel.


Pretty good save. But then, those on-panel feats are near the end of the battle, when they are nearing their limits. Yet, the said three (Gaara, Tsunade, Onoki) are able to fight independently and are able to keep their game up during an extreme diff battle unlike Mei and A4 whose fatigue and declining battle instincts almost caused their deaths. 

Now that we're looking at this, Tsunade's injuries even leads me to believe as well that she never needed such kind of saving from other kages, as she has her healing factor to aid her in combat.


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## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2019)

riousrain said:


> Pretty good save. But then, those on-panel feats are near the end of the battle, when they are nearing their limits. Yet, the said three (Gaara, Tsunade, Onoki) are able to fight independently and are able to keep their game up during an extreme diff battle unlike Mei and A4 whose fatigue and declining battle instincts almost caused their deaths.
> 
> Now that we're looking at this, Tsunade's injuries even leads me to believe as well that she never needed such kind of saving from other kages, as she has her healing factor to aid her in combat.


1) Tsunade was refreshed by Dan gifting her chakra

2) Perhaps, but other Kages have a healing factor of Tsunade being in their team


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> 1) Tsunade was refreshed by Dan gifting her chakra
> 
> 2) Perhaps, but other Kages have a healing factor of Tsunade being in their team


1. The 1 Kage vs 5 Susanoó fight was before Dan gave her chakra. Dan gave her chakra after the 25 Susanoó were eliminated and Perfect Susanoó came out.

2. The 1 Kage vs 5 Susanoó is where Tsunade was focused in combat. Actually, you can't ask for a better opportunity to compare them in terms of battlepower, when they equally have 5 Susano'o to worry about. And on that fight she's able to hold her own independently unlike some whose battle sense and willpower have evidently declined as the fight dragged on.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 30, 2019)

AJBeckyBlissRollins said:


> I wouldn't say P1 Kabuto was fodder, He was compared to Kakashi at the very least


And this is bullshit considering he fled from Kakashi on two different occasions


AJBeckyBlissRollins said:


> When one character is losing to another because they are 20 yrs rusty


Again, Hokage Naruto is God Tier and was still effected by the rust of rotting in the Hokage office. Tsunade is Mid Kage Tier at the very best, please don't tell me you're gonna claim Tsunade won't be effected by this in the name of Sanin wank. She didn't get any less rusty


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## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2019)

riousrain said:


> 1. The 1 Kage vs 5 Susanoó fight was before Dan gave her chakra. Dan gave her chakra after the 25 Susanoó were eliminated and Perfect Susanoó came out.
> 
> 2. The 1 Kage vs 5 Susanoó is where Tsunade was focused in combat. Actually, you can't ask for a better opportunity to compare them in terms of battlepower, when they equally have 5 Susano'o to worry about. And on that fight she's able to hold her own independently unlike some whose battle sense and willpower have evidently declined as the fight dragged on.


1) Tsunade came into the fight later along with Ei.
By the time Tsuna came in, Mei has been fighting off fodders for a day and Gaara and Onoki stopped meteor from falling down along with fighting Edo Kages.
Tsunade has a jutsu developed on top which boosts her stamina upon release, so it's no wonder how she stood up for that long. It's one of her abilitiee

2) We don't know if Tsunade was not helped in theb5 clones fight.
You can see that despite her being able to heal any damage, Ei is still worried about her and is about to possibly help her before Madara Genjutsus him


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## J★J♥ (Oct 30, 2019)

I don't understand implications of this thread. Does it imply that Kabuto is strong or that Tsunade sucks ?


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## riousrain (Oct 30, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> 1) Tsunade came into the fight later along with Ei.
> By the time Tsuna came in, Mei has been fighting off fodders for a day and Gaara and Onoki stopped meteor from falling down along with fighting Edo Kages.


Tsunade came into the fight injured though. Needing to use creation rebirth to heal injuries caused by teleportation jutsu. She then spent more of her chakra right away by healing/refuelling the kages from their previous fights. In a way this at least puts them around the same starting point. You might argue that her spent chakra before she went combat mode ain't enough to counterbalance Onoki, Mei, and Gaara's spent chakra during their earlier fights, and if that's the case, let's agree to disagree.



t0xeus said:


> Tsunade has a jutsu developed on top which boosts her stamina upon release, so it's no wonder how she stood up for that long. It's one of her abilitiee


True. And all 5 Kages are bringing out all of their trump cards during that fight. If anything, it showed Byakugo's benefits in combat, allowing her to attack and counterattack in spite of injuries. Meanwhile, there is Mei who needed to be rescued, also endangering Gaara in the process. Worst showing, easily.

All things considered, bottomline is that she outperformed Mei and A4 in that fight.



t0xeus said:


> 2) We don't know if Tsunade was not helped in theb5 clones fight.
> You can see that despite her being able to heal any damage, Ei is still worried about her and is about to possibly help her before Madara Genjutsus him


Yes. However when those panels came in she already has the injury, which means she did not get help for a good part of the fight that was off-paneled. We will never know what happened off-panel. But during the on-panel fight, the most important part, Mei and A4 needed to be saved. Mei isn't excusable tbh but A4, I don't know what went to his head letting his guard down when he's against 5 Madara clones. Must be a long time crush on Tsuna or something. Either way, it's a mistake on his part that almost cost him his life in the battlefield.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 31, 2019)

J★J♥ said:


> I don't understand implications of this thread. Does it imply that Kabuto is strong or that Tsunade sucks ?


Definitely Tsunade sucks


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## Soul (Oct 31, 2019)

Yup, she did lose.
What's your point?


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 31, 2019)

Soul said:


> Yup, she did lose.
> What's your point?


That that's a pathetic antifeat and she shouldn't be called High Kage Tier or the strongest of the Gokage because of it, and other reasons


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 31, 2019)

The problem is you are purposefully using a nerfed Tsunade to prove your point when everyone and their mom is telling you that’s incorrect and not even good debating.


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## MaruUchiha (Oct 31, 2019)

SakuraLover16 said:


> The problem is you are purposefully using a nerfed Tsunade to prove your point when everyone and their mom is telling you that’s incorrect and not even good debating.


The problem is even if we apply all the nerfs you're desperately reaching for like
1. She's rusty
2. She's tired
3. She hasn't slept in weeks
4. She's drunk
5. She stubbed her left toe
It's still not enough to make up for the massive gap between this Tsunade and SakuraLover's Tsunade. You're telling me she goes from being like Chunin Tier here to High Kage Tier? Just how much weaker does being rusty and drunk make you?


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 31, 2019)

MaruUchiha said:


> It's still not enough to make up for the massive gap between this Tsunade and SakuraLover's Tsunade. You're telling me she goes from being like Chunin Tier here to High Kage Tier? Just how much weaker does being rusty and drunk make you?


Rusty and hemophobic were her two problems along with Kabuto’s prep and full knowledge. She went from the level of high jonin to very low kage when weakened to high mid to low high Kage. Compared to part 2 we know that her taijutsu skill, speed, chakra levels, stamina, and ninjutsu were all significantly lower. Hell even after getting over her fear she became able to a boss summon sized blade and disappear with it before reappearing and stabbing Manda with it. She also nearly defeated Oro with a punch that nearly left him unconscious. You also keep saying high Kage like I haven’t quite gone over how I rank her (high mid low high). Not only is scaling different in part 2 but her feats are way more impressive as well which you conveniently choose to ignore as well.


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## t0xeus (Oct 31, 2019)

Honestly saying Rusty Tsunade is a topjonin is still overrating her

Kabuto is a topjonin and their fight was one-sided as hell

You can't stomp someone this badly while playing with them unless there's at least a full tier difference between you

Tsunade got manhandled the same way Shizune did

Rusty Tsunade is average jonin level at best

Below average jonin most likely tho

Put actual top jonins in her shoes like p1 Kakashi and Zabuza and they push Kabuto to high diff if not defeat him

Soldier pills boost your stamina, not your CQC skill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draco Bolton (Oct 31, 2019)

Losing to Kabuto that is at the same level than p1 Kakashi (with a garbage/very useless Sharingan. I don't lie, it's Kakashi own words) it's a shame. Sadly Tsunade (and women in general) are joke like always in japanese stories.


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## t0xeus (Oct 31, 2019)

Draco Bolton said:


> Losing to Kabuto that is at the same level than p1 Kakashi (with a garbage/very useless Sharingan. I don't lie, it's Kakashi own words) it's a shame. Sadly Tsunade (and women in general) are joke like always in japanese stories.


Not true, plenty of mangas and animes
where women are actually badass

Bleach or HxH from what I've seen for an example


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## SakuraLover16 (Oct 31, 2019)

t0xeus said:


> Honestly saying Rusty Tsunade is a topjonin is still overrating her


I honestly don’t think so.


t0xeus said:


> Kabuto is a topjonin and their fight was one-sided as hell


With full knowledge and while she was rusty and tired he didn’t overwhelm her. They each got an equal amount of hits on each other three a piece as well.


t0xeus said:


> Tsunade got manhandled the same way Shizune did


Shizune wasn’t even manhandled unless you are talking about when he came from underground and cut her tendons I think he also dodged her poison as well.


t0xeus said:


> Rusty Tsunade is average jonin level at best


I don’t think so again lol.


t0xeus said:


> Put actual top jonins in her shoes like p1 Kakashi and Zabuza and they push Kabuto to high diff if not defeat him


I think he was pushed pretty hard considering they only got an equal amounts of hits on each other when he had the overwhelming advantage.


t0xeus said:


> Soldier pills boost your stamina, not your CQC skill


Stamina effects performance though right? So she would perform poorly.


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