# Hinata vs Sasuke and Naruto



## Risyth (Jul 9, 2013)

My brother and I had a disagreement on the levels of taijutsu in the Exams, so I'm just going to ask for the consensus here. 


So, it's:


CE Hinata vs CE Naruto/Sasuke

Area: Preliminary Room
States: All are bloodlusted
Restrictions: Taijutsu only; ninja tools; Sharingan if it nullifies *all* of Hinata's attacks, otherwise ok


Scenario 1: 1-3 Bunshin use is okay at any time. 

Scenario 2: No Bunshin. 


Any takers?


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## The Prodigy (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm willing to bet Hinata here. 

Naruto's and Sasuke's taijutsu ability were clearly under Lee's here, and Neji was flooring Lee with a certain level of ease at this point (Obviously excluding gates). However, Hinata was actually able to give Neji a good fight and hold her own for a while. Also Neji was flooring Naruto pretty easily as well.

Hinata takes this mid difficulty.


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## Naiad (Jul 9, 2013)

i say she could win against naruto and loses to sasuke! he was pretty good skilled with weapons as far i remember!


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## Shizune (Jul 9, 2013)

Hinata and Neji were established as having a stylistic advantage over their peers, and the difference in their skill tends to be greatly exaggerated; she was "in control" in the early stages of their fight. As we saw from their exchange, the gap wasn't in speed or hand to hand skill (Naruto says she's been landing every hit)? it was in mastery over their clan's bloodline jutsu. Despite being physically on par with Neji, the fight went downhill rapidly for Hinata when she discovered his hits meant a lot more than hers because of his superior application of their kekkei genkai.

Being as quick and skilled in raw taijutsu as Neji makes Hinata hands down one of the best brawlers present in the chuunin exams. Issues with her resolve aside, Hinata is absolutely capable of making both these guys look like chumps. As fast and skilled as she is, she doesn't need ninjutsu to have this in the bag.


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## Illusive Frame (Jul 9, 2013)

She could win against Naruto since he's not able to use his clones to the maximum but she loses to Sasuke. Her Taijutsu and speed is nowhere close to Lee's level. Databook stats and feats agree with this. 

People seem to forget that Neji wasn't even close to being serious during his fight with Hinata. He was toying with her the entire time. He knew her hits wouldn't do crap to him since he shut down her chakra. She was never in control, he was playing with her. The only time he was serious was at the end and the Jounin had to stop him so he wouldn't kill her. Plus in the databook.

Her Taijutsu stat was a 2.5
Neji's was a 3.5

Her speed was a 2
His speed was a 3. 

Plus he had the ability to shut down chakra points, something she did not have. Neji outclassed her and still does.


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## Risyth (Jul 9, 2013)

Naiad said:


> i say she could win against naruto and loses to sasuke! he was pretty good skilled with weapons as far i remember!



All tools are restricted. It's just pure taijutsu here.



Illusive Frame said:


> She could winagainst Naruto since he's not able to use his clones to the maximum but she loses to Sasuke. Her Taijutsu and speed is nowhere close to Lee's level. Databook stats and feats agree with this.
> 
> People seem to forget that Neji wasn't even close to being serious during his fight with Hinata. He was toying with her the entire time. He knew her hits wouldn't do crap to him since he shut down her chakra. She was never in control, he was playing with her. The only time he was serious was at the end and the Jounin had to stop him so he wouldn't kill her. Plus in the databook.
> 
> ...



I say that it's simply because of her skill in her superior style that she could win Scenario 2 with ease if there's no Sharingan. Naruto is almost always a nonfactor, imo. 

Speed is pretty irrelevant, too. It refers to movement speed, which isn't  much up close. Sasuke's taijutsu style has less margin for error and is much less damaging than Hinata's. Are his reactions greater with the 2T Sharingan? Idk, but I think so.


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## Illusive Frame (Jul 9, 2013)

Risyth said:


> All tools are restricted. It's just pure taijutsu here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Even with 3 clones, Naruto will still lose in a Taijutsu match against Hinata. 

Sasuke has the Sharingan and had a better Taijutsu stat than Hinata during this time period. He was able to see Lee's moves coming, just couldn't react to it. This won't be the case with Hinata. Lee was both faster and much better in Taijutsu than Hinata. Sasuke has the superior speed and taijutsu here plus the Sharingan. He wins in a Taijutsu match. Lions Barrage(I think it's called that) ends Hinata.


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## Risyth (Jul 10, 2013)

That's true. Heh, but I didn't want to say it because there'd be no other way to say it outright as the tc without sounding fanboyish. 


Sasuke with the Sharingan would have reaction speeds that are about the same as Hinata provided by her own dōjutsu, since he would see Hinata's attacks and chakra before they hit him and she would see him and his chakra and movements from all directions. He would also have faster movement speed. His taijutsu would be much less effective, though. Hinata wouldn't have to hit Sasuke to simply mess him up; and (other than falling back with his superior speed) I'm not sure what he could do in a pure, close-up taijutsu match that would allow him to evade her strikes or fool her. Even with the 2T Sharingan, his frontal reactions wouldn't be much greater than Hinata's who would have pretty much the same advantages in these circumstances. 


Sasuke's taijutsu is much worse than Hinata's?and so is Lee's. It's Hinata>Lee>Sasuke, purely because of Hinata's dōjutsu that enables her to use the Gentle Fist. Her clan's style is easily the best style of taijutsu in Konoha. As a matter of fact, I don't know how you can even compare Sasuke's taijustu to Hinata's. By the CE Prelims, all he had copied from Lee was Lee's kick into the Dancing Leaf Shadow that set up the Primary Lotus. His normal taijutsu is just the normal taijutsu.

And about Lee: It's Lee's speed when unweighted that makes his overall taijutsu noticeably superior to Hinata's, combined with the fact that Lee vs Sasuke was laughable compared to Hinata vs Neji, in terms of their opponents. CE Lee, however, couldn't win a fight against CE Hinata on his style alone (that is, if he had his weights and couldn't use his gates). His databook stats count his speed when his weights are removed, only; but, Lee without his weights on is just faster than them in general, not just in movement speed: so, including reaction speed, which is what really matters in close-up taijutsu fights. That being said, databooks aren't reliable for comparisons, anyway, and that's one of the many reasons I'd never use them, opting for feats and logical conclusions instead. They're more as a guide for how shinobi are personally progressing in their respective categories. 

If Sasuke could somehow land the Lions Barrage, he would win, but because of Hinata's dōjutsu, she would probably see its startup well in advance, along with any other move he does, just like vice-versa: the main difference being she would see those attacks of his from behind. The kick for the Dancing Leaf Shadows setup would also leave him in a very vulnerable position afterwards. 

He's not opening the first gate to perform the kick that leads into the Dancing Leaf Shadow, meaning he's not getting any faster or stronger. When a weighted and base Lee used that technique to begin Sasuke's humiliation, the latter was just a cocky newb with an undeveloped Sharingan that was nowhere near as powerful as Hinata's fully developed Byakugan. He wasn't even able to see said handicapped Lee's simple, unenhanced kick that set up the Dancing Leaf Shadow, despite having the 2T Sharingan. Hinata would've seen the attack automatically even if she wouldn't have been able to dodge it, which is debatable in itself. 

Actually, even Dosu saw it before he got hit. 


And Yoroi was just some mook, of course. There was no one of note that the kick was really tested on.


I'm not saying CE Prelims Sasuke couldn't win with the Sharingan, but considering that, no matter the state he's in, he pretty much always starts his fights by rushing in, I doubt he would have as easy a time as you say.


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## Illusive Frame (Jul 10, 2013)

I think you have to remember that CE Hinata is not exactly skilled like Neji was...

You're basing this on who's style is better but CE Hinata isn't skilled in her style like Neji was. We saw that in their fight. Like I said before, she was never keeping up with Neji. Neji was toying with her because he already shut down her chakra network so her attacks wouldn't do anything to him. 

Also just because she can see the attack coming does not mean she can react to it. With her piss poor speed and piss poor Taijutsu skills, she's not beating a Sharingan Sasuke in a Taijutsu match. Sharingan>Byakugan in these type on conditions. Especially since Hinata cannot shut down chakra points like Neji can. 

In the end, it doesn't matter if she has the superior style if she's not good at it. She has a superior style than Tsunade but we all know who would win in a Taijutsu match. 

The only reason she beats Naruto is because he's nerfed to only using 3 clones. His Taijutsu is worse than hers but if he had his full power, he would wreck Hinata in a Taijutsu match by overwhelming her with 100's of clones and superior stamina. s


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## trance (Jul 10, 2013)

Didn't Sasuke beat Yoroi with just taijutsu and without his Sharingan?


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## Risyth (Jul 10, 2013)

Illusive Frame said:


> I think you have to remember that CE Hinata is not exactly skilled like Neji was...
> 
> You're basing this on who's style is better but CE Hinata isn't skilled in her style like Neji was. We saw that in their fight. Like I said before, she was never keeping up with Neji. Neji was toying with her because he already shut down her chakra network so her attacks wouldn't do anything to him.
> 
> ...



What was shown to be the difference between Hinata and Neji's mastery of Gentle Fist was the fact that the latter could target the tenketsu, while the former couldn't. That's not to say that Hinata couldn't still do a lot of damage with her style. She just wasn't able to control her opponent's chakra flow. In the manga, though Neji was stated to have been going easy on her, but what does this have to do with Sasuke or Lee? Neji was Chuunin level just by his hand-to-hand, and neither CS1 Sasuke nor unweighted Lee could've touched him throughout the entire manga until Sasuke got his 3T. I was never comparing her to Neji. I was comparing her to Sasuke and base Lee who simply have worse taijutsu.

If Hinata sees the motions from the kick from its very beginning, the chances are she'd going to be able to react to it. The difference between the Byakugan and the 2T Sharingan of Sasuke's is that Sasuke's doujutsu couldn't even see the drop or the kick at all. Hinata's doujutsu would allow her to see what Lee would do at all times, and even if she didn't know about the kick's purpose, it would still be just another attack to avoid or parry, to her. Even parrying the kick would allow her to harm Lee/Sasuke.

I don't get why you're saying she has piss poor movement speed. She doesn't have any speed feats to go by because she didn't need any against Neji. Are you going by Databook stats? Those are only for observing the personal progress of a character. They shouldn't be used for cross-character comparisons. If you don't believe me, I can provide you with a lot of inconsistencies in the manga that the Databooks back up.

And it's not as if movement speed is even Sasuke's style in these fights. Because it's taijutsu only and Sasuke's BL, he's going to rush in from five meters. Then, they'll be fighting close-up. And the superior style would win. If Sasuke resorts to copying the Dancing Leaf Shadows and its setup, Hinata would evade it (Sasuke can't even compare to base Lee in speed) and end him right then. If she somehow can't, he wouldn't be in good condition because of his having copied a better, more fit taijutsu user's moves. The Byakugan and 2T Sharingan really operate on the same principle in these circumstances, except the latter is weaker and only operates on frontal vision.


Yeah, comparing Sasuke to Neji is far-fetched, but comparing him to Tsunade? What for? Hinata vs Sasuke isn't a comparison. He has no taijutsu of note, so Hinata can just evade him if that's what it takes, until he loses his Sharingan. Having only two tomoe, he also has a less effective doujutsu, meaning all around worse reaction speed from any direction other than the front. From the front, he's only slightly worse. Almost unnoticeably so. She doesn't have to hit Sasuke to kill him, though, and so, he'll probably be using the split-seconds of time he has to evade or move away, and the first might not always work. He simply cannot hang with a Hyūga in taijutsu at this point.


Of course a BL Naruto with 100 clones would beat Hinata. He would beat anyone in those exams, barring Gaara (and maybe Neji, idk). That's why I gave him three at the max: it'd emphasize teamwork more to beat her, as opposed to a stomp.



Trance said:


> Didn't Sasuke beat Yoroi with just taijutsu and without his Sharingan?



Anyone could've beaten Yoroi, as far as I see. He had already copied Lee's kick and the Dancing Leaf Shadows. Naruto could've used any amount of clones and confused Yoroi, then owning him with taijutsu. If Yoroi knocked Hinata down like he did Sasuke, he'd be leaving himself wide open to a counter. A blow to the heart would've killed him.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Jul 11, 2013)

Yoiori sucks though.

Style wise, Hinata is much better.  Naruto and Sasukes breast taijutsu came from copying Lees kick and making up an ending, and either would have been one shotted by casual Neji at that time.  

Speed wasn't much of an issue there another.  Not even a whole tier of speed.  Into was an entire point faster than Sakura, and she wasn't blitzing or making Sakuras speed seem "piss poor".  Ino had a 3 and Sakura had a 2 I think, someone can check.  

A bloodlusted Sasuke with no knowledge of byakugan or Hyuuga style probably takes or trades a hit in the melee and suffers a crippling blow.  Even glancing blows are serious, and no one on their team know that.


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## Augustus Haugerud (Jul 11, 2013)

Might Guy and Lee both acknowledged Gentle Fist style as _*the ultimate taijutsu.*_ Without ninjutsu I actually do think they'd get taken down. I haven't seen any taijutsu feats from Naruto outside of sage mode/tailed beast mode that would convince me that he can take on Hinata.


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## Illusive Frame (Jul 12, 2013)

Augustus Haugerud said:


> Might Guy and Lee both acknowledged Gentle Fist style as _*the ultimate taijutsu.*_ Without ninjutsu I actually do think they'd get taken down. I haven't seen any taijutsu feats from Naruto outside of sage mode/tailed beast mode that would convince me that he can take on Hinata.



So you're telling me that in a Taijutsu match, Hinata>Gai?

Lolok. 

#Hinatafans


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## Augustus Haugerud (Jul 12, 2013)

> So you're telling me that in a Taijutsu match, Hinata>Gai?
> 
> Lolok.
> 
> #Hinatafans



I said the style was better, I wasn't saying that automatically makes her above everyone who doesn't know gentlefist with taijutsu. Seriously when did I say Gai < Hinata with taijutsu? I simply said that both he and Lee acknowledged Gentle Fist as the ultimate style. She's actually pretty good with taijutsu do to her Hyuga lineage. 

Neither Sasuke nor Naruto are taijutsu beasts like Gai.


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## Risyth (Jul 12, 2013)

Illusive Frame said:


> So you're telling me that in a Taijutsu match, Hinata>Gai?
> 
> Lolok.
> 
> #Hinatafans



You must know how ludicrous an assumption that was.


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## The Prodigy (Jul 12, 2013)

Hashtags being used on NF


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## Illusive Frame (Jul 12, 2013)

Augustus Haugerud said:


> I said the style was better, I wasn't saying that automatically makes her above everyone who doesn't know gentlefist with taijutsu. Seriously when did I say Gai < Hinata with taijutsu? I simply said that both he and Lee acknowledged Gentle Fist as the ultimate style. She's actually pretty good with taijutsu do to her Hyuga lineage.
> 
> Neither Sasuke nor Naruto are taijutsu beasts like Gai.



That's why she has a 3.5 stat in Taijutsu during Part 2? Because she's really good? 

Lolok. 

They don't need to be Taijutsu beasts like Gai to beat a Part 1 Hinata who had a pathetic stat of 2.5 in Taijutsu for a person who comes from a clan that focuses on Taijutsu. Naruto would overwhelm her with his clones but they are restricted down to 3, hence why I said he loses. Sasuke on the other hand has the same Taijutsu stat than Hinata, better overall speed and has the Sharingan for help. In a close up Taijutsu fight, Sasuke's Sharingan>Hinatas Byakugan. Also to the people comparing her to Neji since Neji>Lee. They forget that Neji has Kaiten which is the main reason why he beats Lee. 

But I'm wrong. Part 1 Hinata kept up with Neji and is great at Taijutsu. :amazed


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## Kurama (Jul 12, 2013)

The main reason Neji beats Lee is that regardless is Lee's pre-gates speed, his taijutsu is predictable. This is not the case with jyuuken which relies on advanced footwork and kata that allows them to take their opponent [who isn't simply far above them physically like Gai or the jounin are to Prelims Neji] to taijutsu school. Hinata's taijutsu is only subpar in comparison to Neji. Sasuke's sharingan gives him a perception advantage, but without Lee's speed he'd have trouble properly evading the strikes and would eventually be worn down.


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## Risyth (Jul 12, 2013)

Illusive Frame said:


> That's why she has a 3.5 stat in Taijutsu during Part 2? Because she's really good?
> 
> Lolok.
> 
> ...



Why are you still talking about Databook stats, especially when she has readily readable and watchable feats? Oh, wait, we're talking about Shippuden now?

What?

It's as if you ignored everything I've said.





> The main reason Neji beats Lee is that regardless is Lee's pre-gates speed, his taijutsu is predictable. This is not the case with jyuuken which relies on advanced footwork and kata that allows them to take their opponent [who isn't simply far above them physically like Gai or the jounin are to Prelims Neji] to taijutsu school. Hinata's taijutsu is only subpar in comparison to Neji. Sasuke's sharingan gives him a perception advantage, but without Lee's speed he'd have trouble properly evading the strikes and would eventually be worn down.



Even with his Sharingan, since it isn't fully matured, I don't think he'll have much better perception than Hinata. She'll be able to see his motions and chakra flow and exertion better; he'll be able to see those trails that give him precognition. Chances are, he could see the chakra she'd expel as she fought, too, but if not, he's screwed. Either way, I doubt he could evade it without fleeing.


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