# Naruto: The Last, Canon Legitimacy? [SPOILERS]



## Raiken (Dec 13, 2014)

Are we to consider this, Post Chapter 699 Movie, 100% Canon?
Because the plot seems very Disney princess just like every other filler anime movie, plus with a few plot holes; again, just like every anime movie. (I've read all the spoilers. That's how I know.)
It seems as though Kishi gave them all these ideas and the like, and they just made something meh out of them.

For example, Naruto before the start of the series using Kage Bunshin to try and defend Hinata. He hadn't even learnt it yet. I know Kishi sometimes can slide into plot holes when working with multiple diverging story-lines, like with the timelines, but he'd never get something that simple wrong surely? And how Sasuke is barely in the movie at all, I mean, really?

Especially considering this finally is in the form of anime and not manga.
Can the level of "canon", be split into tiers per say?


100% Manga Canon: "Source Manga Material, undisputed Canon. Can deny anime Canon if choose to?"

Anime Canon: "All Canon Anime Footage and Naruto The Last."

Filler: "All Filler Material and Naruto Movies."

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Also please don't put this in the movie thread as I'm targeting this discussion at the Manga Readers.


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## Kait0 (Dec 13, 2014)

Kishimoto himself was involved in the script writing and character development of this movie, and has stated that it is indeed canon and represents what chapter 699.5 would have been had he drawn it.  So, this is about as canon as a movie is going to get, with SP of course adding some flair to it.


Cryorex said:


> For example, Naruto before the start of the series using Kage Bunshin to try and defend Hinata. He hadn't even learnt it yet.


Where did you get this part though?  All I heard about the first memory when they met was that he got his shit pushed in, they trampled the scarf he was wearing and Hinata kept it as a memento and that was used as fuel for her to start knitting him a new one.

As for the tiers of what makes something in Naruto "canon", it can be safe to assume there are only two tiers; those that Kishimoto has himself been involved in, which includes anything introduced in the manga, and Naruto: The Last (representing canon), and anything SP made as an outside influence not introduced in the manga (representing non-canon).

Manga/Naruto: The Last = canon
Filler Anime Content/Non-manga Content/RL SD = non-canon


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## Raiken (Dec 13, 2014)

Kait0 said:


> Kishimoto himself was involved in the script writing and character development of this movie, and has stated that it is indeed canon and represents what chapter 699.5 would have been had he drawn it.  So, this is about as canon as a movie is going to get, with SP of course adding some flair to it.
> 
> Where did you get this part though?  All I heard about the first memory when they met was that he got his shit pushed in, they trampled the scarf he was wearing and Hinata kept it as a memento and that was used as fuel for her to start knitting him a new one.


I heard it from some spoilers, or some guy who had watched the movie; not sure which, I'll see if I can find the source.


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## Altair21 (Dec 13, 2014)

Kishi flat out stated it was considered chapter 699.5 so yea it's pretty much canon.


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## metaXzero (Dec 13, 2014)

Kishi himself considers this canon to the manga and did so much red penciling of the script that he thinks the folks working on the movie took him as a tyrant. So yes, it is canon unlike every other Naruto movie. 

Also what spoilers say Naruto uses Kage Bunshin? Last I checked, Naruto defends Hinata and gets his butt kicked like usual


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## Kait0 (Dec 13, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> I heard it from some spoilers, or some guy who had watched the movie; not sure which, I'll see if I can find the source.


There has been a very detailed plot thrown around on tumblr and reddit, should take a look at that.  May also want to consider requesting anyone who has the novelization of the movie translate that specific passage, because that's the first time I've even heard a mention that Naruto used shadow clones in the memories.


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## Raiken (Dec 13, 2014)

George Lucas Approved many different Star Wars, Novels, Games and Comics, as part of the Star Wars Canon.
However It was still considered a lower level of Canon compared to the 6 Movies and the Clone Wars Movie/Animated Series; which were considered the highest Tier of Canon.
Can it not be a similar case with the Naruto Manga, and Naruto: The Last; both are canon, but at varying levels.


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## Altair21 (Dec 13, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> George Lucas Approved many different Star Wars, Novels, Games and Comics, as part of the Star Wars Canon.
> However It was still considered a lower level of Canon compared to the 6 Movies and the Clone Wars Movie/Animated Series; which were considered the highest Tier of Canon.
> Can it not be a similar case with the Naruto Manga, and Naruto: The Last; both are canon, but at varying levels.



No, not really. Not when Kishi pretty much says The Last is considered a chapter (chapter 699.5) in the original manga. He also said that it's critical to finish reading the manga before watching the movie. That's the sole reason the manga ended when it did.


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## Raiken (Dec 13, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> No, not really. Not when Kishi pretty much says The Last is considered a chapter (chapter 699.5) in the original manga. He also said that it's critical to read the manga before watching the movie. That's the sole reason the manga ended when it did.


I suppose that is true. Kind of lame, considering what I've heard about the movie.
I had pretty high hopes for it too.


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## Altair21 (Dec 13, 2014)

Cryorex said:


> I suppose that is true. Kind of lame, considering what I've heard about the movie.
> I had pretty high hopes for it too.



Yea the movie isn't exactly all that great if you're not a NaruHina fan seeing as most of the movie has to do with exactly that. Shame, but it is what it is I suppose. At least we've got the mini-series in Spring and the Bolt movie in August to look forward to.


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## shintebukuro (Dec 13, 2014)

The *ideas* presented in the movie are canon. NaruHina/Tenseigan/Ootsutsuki/etc.

But the whole movie was not moment for moment written by Kishimoto. I highly doubt he had much of ANY involvement in the fights, for instance. I wouldn't worry about whether or not Naruto lost his RSM or when he first learned Kage Bunshin and all that stuff -- the anime team doesn't know their asshole from a hole in the ground. 

So, I accept the ideas of Toneri using puppets on the moon/Hinata knitting a scarf/Ootsutsuki sealing their eyes away for 1000 years/etc/etc...but I wouldn't stress about any of the specific details from the fight scenes or anything like that.

EDIT: Yes, Cyrorex, I am essentially agreeing with your notion of "lesser canon." It's a shame everyone else is so gung ho on declaring their position that they can't think for a second about what you're suggesting.


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## Hexa (Dec 13, 2014)

The script itself should be canon since Kishimoto had a direct role and wanted the story to connect with the manga.

Animation details and stuff not mentioned in the script  shouldn't be taken as canon, I think.  Things Kishimoto had no authority over, basically.


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## Blu-ray (Dec 14, 2014)

It's part of the manga canon, and as far as the character designs and script goes, both are canon since the characters were designed by Kishi and he had complete control over the script, and was meticulous about it too. So yes it's canon. 

Sure it wasn't just an ordinary clones jutsu instead of Shadow Clones? Well. Not the first time Kishi retconed the shit out of the story even in the manga so wouldn't put it past him. It is indeed canon though.


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## Arya Stark (Dec 14, 2014)

Unless Kishi comes out and says there are parts not canon or it's not canon, it's Chapter 699.5.

He created the time skip mess himself for example (so Naruto would be legit, wtf) and he fussed about a lot of plot points and changed them accordingly. In the end it turned out something he imagined; at least _so far_ this is what his interviews say.

Any word from him can change it of course but for now, it's canon.


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 14, 2014)

I remember in the fight against Pain Hinata had a flash back where Naruto attempts to make a clone of himself but it's a dud


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## Tangle (Dec 14, 2014)

Seems too SP influenced and fillerish for me to consider it 100% canon.



Hexa said:


> The script itself should be canon since Kishimoto had a direct role and wanted the story to connect with the manga.
> 
> Animation details and stuff not mentioned in the script  shouldn't be taken as canon, I think.  Things Kishimoto had no authority over, basically.



SP wrote the script tho, not Kishi.


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 14, 2014)

maybe we can disregard the dumb shit and just focus on the cool shit


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## tkpirate (Dec 14, 2014)

Tangle said:


> Seems to SP influenced and fillerish for me to consider it 100% canon.
> 
> 
> 
> SP wrote the script tho, not Kishi.



the original story was from Kishi,and he was the chief story supervisor and changed the script many times.it's all that's needed for it to be canon.


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 14, 2014)

People really need to post sources when they say shit like this, it's very annoying having to take people's word for things when they haven't even seen the movie


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 14, 2014)

Kishimoto is credited at 3 jobs for the movie :
Character designer
original story
Chief story supervisor

Source : official movie site


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## tkpirate (Dec 14, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> People really need to post sources when they say shit like this, it's very annoying having to take people's word for things when they haven't even seen the movie


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 14, 2014)

No I meant the shadow clones as a little kid.  But I read something saying he attempts to make clones to defend Hinata but they're just 2 tiny versions of himself and he gets beat up.  He also tried to make clones and fail at it before in anime filler flashbacks, so wtvr.


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## Tangle (Dec 14, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> the original story was from Kishi,and he was the chief story supervisor and changed the script many times.it's all that's needed for it to be canon.



No, some of the ideas were from Kishi and some from other staff, he also clearly said that he was too embarrassed to write romance himself. He might have tried his best to improve an OOC fillerish script by Studio Pierrot as much as he could but according to the spoilers it seems like it didn't help much.


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## tkpirate (Dec 14, 2014)

Tangle said:


> No, some of the ideas were from Kishi and some from other staff, he also clearly said that he was too embarrassed to write romance himself. He might have tried his best to improve an OOC fillerish script by Studio Pierrot as much as he could but according to the spoilers it seems like it didn't help much.



not all ideas in the manga is from Kishi either.his editors have a big part in the manga.
Kishi made the story for the movie,didn't wrote in down on paper,made someone else write it.and then changed the script many times so that it connects well with the manga.
that's as canon as it can be.


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## Punished Pathos (Dec 14, 2014)

People are trying to say that the movie isn't canon because its anime? 

What do ya need?
Ya need Kishimoto to shit out the entire movie on manga panels for it to be canon?


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## babaGAReeb (Dec 14, 2014)

its not canon cause it clearly hasnt been written by kishi

the only romance kishi can write is gay romance


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 14, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> No I meant the shadow clones as a little kid.  But I read something saying he attempts to make clones to defend Hinata but they're just 2 tiny versions of himself and he gets beat up.  He also tried to make clones and fail at it before in anime filler flashbacks, so wtvr.



Bunshin no Jutsu, yes.

Kage Bunshin no Jutsu, no


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## samishige (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm really old-fashioned so I still prefer manga to any movie or anime. And I don't think this movie is canon from beginning to the end but most important parts are. And by most important pats I mean NH love story, wedding and children not random battles with random fodders.


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## tkpirate (Dec 14, 2014)

^ fights are most important part of a shounen series.


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## Tony Lou (Dec 14, 2014)

Does it matter? 

Toneri is a pretty forgettable villain, and NH already is canon regardless.


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## Gipsy Danger (Dec 14, 2014)

Luiz said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> Toneri is a pretty forgettable villain, and NH already is canon regardless.



I think it'll be relevant to the Part "3" miniseries, for sure. Events in the Last might just be referenced.

And then there's whatever the Bolt movie after/along-side that entails, too.


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## Punished Pathos (Dec 14, 2014)

ITT: People are socially engineered and conditioned into believing that Anime isn't canon to manga.

lol what the fuck does Kishimoto have to do?
Slap on "This movie is canon to my manga" in big red letters?


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## Maracunator (Dec 14, 2014)

Well, let's see what we know about the movie...

It's been promoted as chapter 699.5 and given a place in the continuity as 2 years after the last fight Naruto and Sasuke had, no other movie (both in part 1 and 2) has been given such story placement before. The 2-year-timeskip (which has raised eyebrows in my fandom, admittedly) was one of the things Kishimoto insisted on having.

2 days before the last 2 chapters got online (by extension, 6 days before the chapters were officially published in Japan), we saw the leaked concept arts of Himawari and Bolt for the movie, heck, even Evil was surprised such a reveal already happened before she could start doing her cryptic spoilers, such reveal (with the subsequent post-credits scene) shows they wanted the movie to fit as much as possible in the aforementioned gap between chapters 699 and 700.

And last but not least, for the first time in a Naruto movie, the villain gets a freaking TnJ, how much more of a giveaway sign of Kishimoto's hand influencing the script is needed?

Conclusion: It is canon, it might not have met the expectations of some people, it might have exceeded others', but it has the storyline elements needed to be a part of the manga's continuity, and Kishimoto's stamp on top of it.


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## Overhaul (Dec 14, 2014)

It's canon filler.


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## Kait0 (Dec 14, 2014)

Revy said:


> It's canon filler.


You mean like most of part 2?


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## Jυstin (Dec 14, 2014)

Can't be any less canon than Kaguya was.

I know that's not a very ensuring statement, but...

... where was I going with this again?


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## Kait0 (Dec 14, 2014)

I think you just admitted something, but I can't be sure.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 14, 2014)

There are still people who still don't think the Last is canon 

NaruHina really rustled your jimmies


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## Meat (Dec 15, 2014)

If I want to defend kishi as a good writer and storyteller, then i consider the movie as filler.

But too it is too late with all these shit happened. Kishi is one shitty writer and storyteller overall, so its canon.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2014)

Altair21 said:


> No, not really. Not when Kishi pretty much says The Last is considered a chapter (chapter 699.5) in the original manga.* He also said that it's critical to finish reading the manga before watching the movie. That's the sole reason the manga ended when it did.*



Is this real? Like, do you have a source for this?


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## Tangle (Dec 15, 2014)

Gilgamesh said:


> NaruHina really rustled your jimmies



the last pretty much takes a huge dump on manga NH


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## Raiden (Dec 15, 2014)

Its cannon, and I think the anime team may work on some episodes to explain the gaps. So you know what's coming next .


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## Kait0 (Dec 15, 2014)

Raiden said:


> Its cannon, and I think the anime team may work on some episodes to explain the gaps. So you know what's coming next .


More rustled jimmies?


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## HolyHands (Dec 15, 2014)

I consider the movie mostly canon. I think the main point of contention would be battle feats. Kishi oversaw the script and provided the story, but it was never made clear how much oversight Kishi provided in how the actual fight scenes play out. From the previews and spoilers shown so far, we have ninjas firing off DBZ beam attacks, Naruto throwing multiple rasenshurikens in base from without getting visibly tired, Hinata getting a possible Hamura powerup, Lee punching out a meteor, and whatever the tenseigan does. Did Kishi approve of these things, or does his vision of character strength differ from what we're seeing in the movie so far. I feel that is the main question.


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## LesExit (Dec 15, 2014)

Tangle said:


> the last pretty much takes a huge dump on manga NH


The plot seems to discredit a lot of their development in the manga(so ya...I understand the huge dump). 
I'm incredibly displeased overall 
The fluff is nice though.


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## minniehyunnie (Dec 16, 2014)

I heard the Naruto vs. Toneri fight was TnJ'ed... so it is canon.


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## Raniero (Dec 16, 2014)

LesExit said:


> The plot seems to discredit a lot of their development in the manga(so ya...I understand the huge dump).
> I'm incredibly displeased overall
> The fluff is nice though.


No, it doesn't 

You  guys are just being picky and self-entitled ("boo hoo their romance didn't go my way")


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

I'll watch it for a few minutes of Sasuke. 

Don't care about filler romance.


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## icemaster143 (Dec 16, 2014)

Think of it as a flashback told by an unreliable author.  While the store is true some of the details are a little off.


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> I'll watch it for a few minutes of Sasuke.
> 
> Don't care about filler romance.



Seconds.


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## Rindaman (Dec 16, 2014)

Raniero said:


> No, it doesn't
> 
> You  guys are just being picky and self-entitled ("boo hoo their romance didn't go my way")



This.

How the heck did the movie shit on their development in the manga when one of the most talked about scenes from the movie is ....
*Spoiler*: __ 



 Naruto caught in a genjutsu showing him his past and he remembers all of he and Hinata's moments in the manga, including abit of filler from when they were kids, and comes to the conclusion he always loved her.


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 16, 2014)

I wish it were more of a GokuxChiChi romance, except with chichi(hinata) obviously being less of a bitch.  Like Goku was never really that romantically conscious he just went along with it and loved his wife but didn't really get so obsessed with her like most lovers do because chichi kind of pulled him along for the ride.  Naruto appears really dumb in this movie, but he eventually gets overwhelmed with feelings for Hinata to the point he's out of commission temporarily.  I wish he wasn't so affected and had his priorities pretty much solid in his mind now that he's an adult, he seemed quite mature at the end of the manga.

Also I don't like how he said he only liked Sakura because of the rivalry, he clearly liked her for more than that.  If he just wanted to beat his rival how would disguising himself as Sasuke to get a kiss be looked at as a victory rather than a clever way to get some action, he's basically just using Sasuke's superiority to get what he wanted, how Is that beating your rival.  Doesn't make sense.


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> I wish it were more of a GokuxChiChi romance, except with chichi(hinata) obviously being less of a bitch.  Like Goku was never really that romantically conscious he just went along with it and loved his wife but didn't really get so obsessed with her like most lovers do because chichi kind of pulled him along for the ride.  Naruto appears really dumb in this movie, but he eventually gets overwhelmed with feelings for Hinata to the point he's out of commission temporarily.  I wish he wasn't so affected and had his priorities pretty much solid in his mind now that he's an adult, he seemed quite mature at the end of the manga.
> 
> Also I don't like how he said he only liked Sakura because of the rivalry, he clearly liked her for more than that.  If he just wanted to beat his rival how would disguising himself as Sasuke to get a kiss be looked at as a victory rather than a clever way to get some action, he's basically just using Sasuke's superiority to get what he wanted, how Is that beating your rival.  Doesn't make sense.



Becasue the very second thing he planned with his clever henge trick was.....making Sasuke look bad in front of Sakura."All I did was  make Sasuke look cool", he tought in the bathroom. He had only used the henge to "test her feelings" and lo and behold, "she called me annoying again"

It makes much more sense.than it seems.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> I wish it were more of a GokuxChiChi romance, except with chichi(hinata) obviously being less of a bitch.  Like Goku was never really that romantically conscious he just went along with it and loved his wife but didn't really get so obsessed with her like most lovers do because chichi kind of pulled him along for the ride.  Naruto appears really dumb in this movie, but he eventually gets overwhelmed with feelings for Hinata to the point he's out of commission temporarily.  I wish he wasn't so affected and had his priorities pretty much solid in his mind now that he's an adult, he seemed quite mature at the end of the manga.
> 
> Also I don't like how he said he only liked Sakura because of the rivalry, he clearly liked her for more than that.  If he just wanted to beat his rival how would disguising himself as Sasuke to get a kiss be looked at as a victory rather than a clever way to get some action, he's basically just using Sasuke's superiority to get what he wanted, how Is that beating your rival.  Doesn't make sense.



For the nth time, Naruto never said that in the movie. It's Sakura who says that to Naruto's face. ( And it's supposed to be the scene Kishimoto wanted the most to be in the movie, he mentioned it many times during the story meetings for the movie. The source is somewhere in the movie forum ).

「…ナルトとヒナタの関係性がどうやって、原作の最終回に至るかを描いてはいるんですが、僕が大切だと思って何度も何度も打ち合わせで言及したのが、サクラとナルトのあるシーン。]

How did Naruto and Hinata's relationship became what it is in the last chapter. But a certain scene with Sakura and Naruto was very important to me too and I kept talking about it again and again during meetings.


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 16, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> For the nth time, Naruto never said that in the movie. It's Sakura who says that to Naruto's face. ( And it's supposed to be the scene Kishimoto wanted the most to be in the movie, he mentioned it many times during the story meetings for the movie. The source is somewhere in the movie forum )



Well how come it's implied that Naruto "always" loved Hinata, how does that make sense, he's always been portrayed as being indifferent towards her and just seeing her as another friend, never has he shown even a hint of loving her specially, he didn't even ask about her after defeating Pain.  She was just another comrade he wanted to protect, otherwise he'd at least think about her once in a while.  I feel this whole destiny love thing was shoehorned in for this movie.  I like Naruto and HInata but I feel like saying it was always "meant to be" is pushing it, Hinata admired Naruto and she was a kind and respectable shinobi, and that should have been enough for Naruto to accept her, none of this corny stuff.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

Naruto always loved Hinata? 

So it really is a filler...


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Dec 16, 2014)

The author said it was canon so it is canon.

Can't get any more simple than that.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> Well how come it's implied that Naruto "always" loved Hinata, how does that make sense, he's always been portrayed as being indifferent towards her and just seeing her as another friend, never has he shown even a hint of loving her specially, he didn't even ask about her after defeating Pain.  She was just another comrade he wanted to protect, otherwise he'd at least think about her once in a while.  I feel this whole destiny love thing was shoehorned in for this movie.  I like Naruto and HInata but I feel like saying it was always "meant to be" is pushing it, Hinata admired Naruto and she was a kind and respectable shinobi, and that should have been enough for Naruto to accept her, none of this corny stuff.



He already accepted her strenght  as a ninja during the war, you know.
He mention it early in the movie.

Anyway, never in the movie it's told that Naruto always loved her.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

Kishimoto is a moron who made Naruto's dad out of a dog. 

This isn't even retcon, it's practically alternate reality.  

He barely had any relationship with Hinata in 15 years, wtf?


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## TRN (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> Kishimoto is a moron who made Naruto's dad out of a dog.
> 
> This isn't even retcon, it's practically alternate reality.
> 
> He barely had any relationship with Hinata in 15 years, wtf?



Your post and post history


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

TRN said:


> Your post and post history



Yeah, don't feed the troll.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

No, just all that Naruto x Hinata since way forever; when it was one-sided stalking from Hinata's side.

What is all this business about Naruto having some childhood romance history with her?


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> No, just all that Naruto x Hinata since way forever; when it was one-sided stalking from Hinata's side.
> 
> What is all this business about Naruto having some childhood romance history with her?



I don't know, you tell me where you read this. First time I hear that.
You keep telling that and you don't even give a source


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## tkpirate (Dec 16, 2014)

these butthurt pairing fans.


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> No, just all that Naruto x Hinata since way forever; when it was one-sided stalking from Hinata's side.
> 
> What is all this business about Naruto having some childhood romance history with her?



Misinterpreting the movie plot, probably.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

I didn't watch movie myself, but rather read few previous posts here about it.

Now, if those were lies, that is another thing.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> I didn't watch movie myself, but rather read few previous posts here about it.
> 
> Now, if those were lies, that is another thing.



Well, there are two people here who saw the movie. takL and I don't remember who else.
None of them talked about what you saud.


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## Corvida (Dec 16, 2014)

SusanooKakashiCanon said:


> I didn't watch movie myself, but rather read few previous posts here about it.
> 
> Now, if those were lies, that is another thing.



Nah, people simply watched pretty stills with child Naruto and chibi Hiina  and didnt  even asked  for the scene contexts.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> Well how come it's implied that Naruto "always" loved Hinata, how does that make sense, he's always been portrayed as being indifferent towards her and just seeing her as another friend, never has he shown even a hint of loving her specially, he didn't even ask about her after defeating Pain.  She was just another comrade he wanted to protect, otherwise he'd at least think about her once in a while.  I feel this whole destiny love thing was shoehorned in for this movie.  I like Naruto and HInata but I feel like saying it was always "meant to be" is pushing it, Hinata admired Naruto and she was a kind and respectable shinobi, and that should have been enough for Naruto to accept her, none of this corny stuff.



This post here.


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## HolyHands (Dec 16, 2014)

As silly as it is, it actually kinda makes sense for Naruto to say something like "I always loved you". Just look at his relationship with Sasuke. Naruto spends a few months with the guy as bitter rivals, then suddenly Naruto sees themselves as brotherly soul mates. So it's somewhat fitting that he takes a similar attitude with Hinata. Dunno, Kishi just has a weird way of writing bonds.


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## Punished Pathos (Dec 16, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> these butthurt pairing fans.



They are good for trolling


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 16, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> This.
> 
> How the heck did the movie shit on their development in the manga when one of the most talked about scenes from the movie is ....
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



So...in short, it shit on their development?  The whole point of NH is that there was no real development, and they had no real relationship throughout the series outside of Hinata admiring him and Naruto slowly acknowledging her strength and acknowledging her as a comrade through very small conversations and interaction once every 200 chapters or so.

So how did them interacting for all of 3 chapters worth of dialogue for 15 years turn into "he always loved her"? Of course, throw in a retcon filler scene that was never alluded to, referenced or hinted at, that's certain to convince people  Like Sakura suddenly gaining all of Tsunade's abilities in one panel just because it was necessary to have her there for some reason.

Its an asspull plain and simple, and really does trample over the actual manga interpretation of NH, regardless of how you feel about that interpretation. They should have gone with atleast what we knew about NH, having him legit get into her instead of simply going with the asspull version.



Yagami1211 said:


> For the nth time, Naruto never said that in the movie. It's Sakura who says that to Naruto's face. ( And it's supposed to be the scene Kishimoto wanted the most to be in the movie, he mentioned it many times during the story meetings for the movie. The source is somewhere in the movie forum ).
> 
> 「?ナルトとヒナタの関係性がどうやって、原作の最終回に至るかを描いてはいるんですが、僕が大切だと思って何度も何度も打ち合わせで言及したのが、サクラとナルトのあるシーン。]
> 
> How did Naruto and Hinata's relationship became what it is in the last chapter. But a certain scene with Sakura and Naruto was very important to me too and I kept talking about it again and again during meetings.




That's even worse. Cause you have Sakura, who literally has no idea what actual love is telling other people, most of all Naruto(who's supposed to be the guy who cares about bonds and knows the true extent of those bonds and feelings) about feelings and what true bonds are  

"Yes the guy who tried to kill me multiple times, that i only really liked to begin with because of everyone else, that i never really was even remotely close to outside of him acting non hostile to me a few times in part 1 really shows me what true love is, so that i can tell you that your emotions are wrong and mine are not" 

Was her love 'true' when she threatened to abandon the entire village for him? That's Kishimoto's idea of 'true love'? Being a sycophant with no redeeming features? Oh boy. And yet he says she would be a horrible woman to get over Sasuke....yeah...Kishimoto.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Inuhanyou said:


> So...in short, it shit on their development?  The whole point of NH is that there was no real development, and they had no real relationship throughout the series outside of Hinata admiring him and Naruto slowly acknowledging her strength and acknowledging her as a comrade through very small conversations and interaction once every 200 chapters or so.
> 
> So how did them interacting for all of 3 chapters worth of dialogue for 15 years turn into "he always loved her"? Of course, throw in a retcon filler scene that was never alluded to, referenced or hinted at, that's certain to convince people  Like Sakura suddenly gaining all of Tsunade's abilities in one panel just because it was necessary to have her there for some reason.
> 
> ...






My point wasn't to make people think it's BS or not. You're free to think whatever suits you. I just want ppl to stop hating SP for Kishi's decisions.


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## tkpirate (Dec 16, 2014)

yeah,it was SP who made Naruto say that Obito was the coolest guy.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 16, 2014)

I don't blame Pierrot for Kishi's decisions. Rather SP is the one who enabled his horrible writing to infect their studio by going with such terrible motives for a movie.

That's what i blame them for, being an enabler.

When Kubo wanted ideas for Hell incorporated into the fourth Bleach movie, Pierrot told him to fuck off plain and simple. They should have done the exact same thing to Kishi and made a worthwhile scenario instead of this 13 year old fan-fiction.


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## SusanooKakashiCanon (Dec 16, 2014)

No dogs - no Naruto's dad - no Naruto.


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## Fay (Dec 16, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't blame Pierrot for Kishi's decisions. Rather SP is the one who enabled his horrible writing to infect their studio by going with such terrible motives for a movie.
> 
> That's what i blame them for, being an enabler.
> 
> When Kubo wanted ideas for Hell incorporated into the fourth Bleach movie, Pierrot told him to fuck off plain and simple. They should have done the exact same thing to Kishi and made a worthwhile scenario instead of this 13 year old fan-fiction.


I would agree with you but SP specifically told him they wanted a romance movie about naruto's love life and that's the reason why this was created basically. So it's not really Kishi's fault but SP's fault.


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## Haruka Katana (Dec 16, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> I don't blame Pierrot for Kishi's decisions. Rather SP is the one who enabled his horrible writing to infect their studio by going with such terrible motives for a movie.
> 
> That's what i blame them for, being an enabler.
> 
> When Kubo wanted ideas for Hell incorporated into the fourth Bleach movie, Pierrot told him to fuck off plain and simple. They should have done the exact same thing to Kishi and made a worthwhile scenario instead of this 13 year old fan-fiction.



SP isn't that great either though. Their past movies are bad. :/ 

I heard SP trolled Kubo for the Hell movie


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## PumpkinRoll (Dec 16, 2014)

Both SP and Kishi worked on The Last. As a result, I think both are responsible for how that movie turned out.


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## santanico (Dec 16, 2014)

Hell movie was crap


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 16, 2014)

PumpkinRoll said:


> Both SP and Kishi worked on The Last. As a result, I think both are responsible for how that movie turned out.



Not quite, SP hired writers that worked on shoujo shit to write a good romance story, they'd be mostly responsible Kishi just added little details here and there


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## Tangle (Dec 16, 2014)

Rindaman said:


> Naruto caught in a genjutsu showing him his past and he remembers all of he and Hinata's moments in the manga,



is that's why there are no NH war flashbacks or mentions of neji's sacrifice lmao



blackguyinpinksuit said:


> The author said it was canon so it is canon.
> 
> Can't get any more simple than that.



he said that it connects to the manga.

I thought the requirements for something in Naruto being 100% canon is that it's  suppose to be made by Kishi and his crew and not by SP who is notorious for making characters go OOC asf and whom also had limited information about future events of the manga . I will only consider this movie semi-canon.


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## Yagami1211 (Dec 16, 2014)

It's funny. Every person makes his own version of what happened without even taking into account what Kishi said.



> Not quite, SP hired writers that worked on shoujo shit to write a good romance story, they'd be mostly responsible Kishi just added little details here and there


<------ I have source of the complete opposite.

[youtube]3LMhbxe7Vmw[/youtube]

Kishimoto : I tried to imagine them as adults as I did the character design.
They probably thought I was annoying for making changes on the scenario so many time.
I think for sure it became an interesting work. Please, don't miss it.


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## LesExit (Dec 16, 2014)

Raniero said:


> No, it doesn't
> 
> You  guys are just being picky and self-entitled ("boo hoo their romance didn't go my way")


I expected better. It's really my own honest mistake ( 　ﾟ,_ゝﾟ)

No one's entitled to shit though :/ Kishi and SP can do whatever they want, it up to me if I'll like it.


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## Addy (Dec 16, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> It's funny. Every person makes his own version of what happened without even taking into account what Kishi said.



dont participate in this thread. it's a stupid thread :/


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## Tangle (Dec 16, 2014)

Yagami1211 said:


> It's funny. Every person makes his own version of what happened without even taking into account what Kishi said.
> 
> <------ I have source of the complete opposite.
> 
> ...



that doesn't state the complete opposite, he still didn't write that script.


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## Raniero (Dec 16, 2014)

Though I doubt it was in the movie, if Naruto said something about always loving Hinata, he was obviously being hyperbolic. 



Inuhanyou said:


> The whole point of NH is that there was no real development, and they had no real relationship throughout the series outside of Hinata admiring him and Naruto slowly acknowledging her strength and acknowledging her as a comrade through very small conversations and interaction once every 200 chapters or so.


Somebody didn't read the manga 



			
				Tangle said:
			
		

> is that's why there are no NH war flashbacks or mentions of neji's sacrifice lmao


Pretty sure the movie was in development already before Neji's death. 



> I will only consider this movie semi-canon.


It's not about considering anything. It's canon. Get over it.


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## Arya Stark (Dec 16, 2014)

Anything _author approves_ is canon. If Kishi says it's 699.5, that's it.

If like Kubo or Alan Moore, denies it's existence, then it isn't canon.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 16, 2014)

Fay said:


> I would agree with you but SP specifically told him they wanted a romance movie about naruto's love life and that's the reason why this was created basically. So it's not really Kishi's fault but SP's fault.



Eh...your misunderstanding me. I don't care about whether or not the movie itself was an NH movie. By all means, make it so. It hardly got development to begin with so it deserves some development somewhere. 

But the scenario that was chosen(regardless of whether or not kishimoto or the SP writers wrote it) was shit and totally doesn't make up at all for what i saw as an assupull of the century in the manga itself. Infact, it makes it worse because it rectonned a bunch of junk from the little that was even in the series, turned it into a fanfiction where Naruto loved Hinata all along even though that is literally complete BS. That's my beef with it.

Atleast have the characters act like they normally do.



Haruka Katana said:


> SP isn't that great either though. Their past movies are bad. :/
> 
> I heard SP trolled Kubo for the Hell movie



In terms of romance, i would say that a few of the Nardo movies with a girl in it as the heroine had better 'romance' development than the series itself, so i can't really agree  That's why i expected something from SP although i dont know what i expected  The first movie with the actress, the first shippuuden movie with the Hinata look alike who could tell the future, the second shippuuden movie with the tomboy(that one was the best emotion wise i thought)

And yes they did, and he was very depressed about it, he even had them take his name off the credits of that movie because he felt frustrated that he was unable to be involved in development because they ignored him.



starr said:


> Hell movie was crap



Yeah it was  I'd say every bleach movie except 3 was bad actually  I don't care about some leaf OC out of a fanfiction, nor Hitsugaya, nor do i care about Hell really  But a rukia themed movieis the best thing ever.


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## Raniero (Dec 16, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Infact, it makes it worse because it rectonned a bunch of junk from the little that was even in the series


Referring to the scarf, that isn't a retcon. A retcon would be altering already existing material or facts. Just because the scarf was never mentioned in the manga doesn't mean it never existed. It was a plot device that expanded upon Naruto and Hinata's relationship and stayed consistent within the series' story. 

I wish people would stop throwing the word "retcon" around when they don't even know what the fuck it means. (Or act like retcons are always a bad thing when it's a common writing strategy) 



> *turned it into a fanfiction where Naruto loved Hinata all along even though that is literally complete BS*. That's my beef with it.


That wasn't actually in the movie though from what I've heard recently. 

That was in the novel, where the author has artistic license.


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## Kait0 (Dec 16, 2014)

Addy said:


> dont participate in this thread. it's a stupid thread :/


Stupid threads are even funner.  More challenge in shutting down the naysayers. 

I don't even understand why this is still being discussed.  Kishimoto stated that The Last should be considered chapter 699.5.  That's his way of saying "this is an important part of the story, get over it."


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## Titanosaurus (Dec 16, 2014)

The Last is Hinata's fan fiction, there was no romance, Naruto never "loved" Hinata.  Hinata showed up in Naruto's room in the middle of the night, stripped for him, he got excited, they fucked, Hinata got pregnant and in order to keep up the image of a responsible Hokage candidate Naruto became a father.


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## PumpkinRoll (Dec 16, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> The Last is Hinata's fan fiction, there was no romance, Naruto never "loved" Hinata.  Hinata showed up in Naruto's room in the middle of the night, stripped for him, he got excited, they fucked, Hinata got pregnant and in order to keep up the image of a responsible Hokage candidate Naruto became a father.




OMG I haven't laughed this hard in a while :rofl


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## Bender (Dec 16, 2014)

Addy said:


> dont participate in this thread. it's a stupid thread :/



No no, Yagami1211 I insist that you do pierce this thread's gaping lack of logic with your immense knowledge.


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## Bruce Wayne (Dec 16, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> Eh...your misunderstanding me. I don't care about whether or not the movie itself was an NH movie. By all means, make it so. It hardly got development to begin with so it deserves some development somewhere.
> 
> But the scenario that was chosen(regardless of whether or not kishimoto or the SP writers wrote it) was shit and totally doesn't make up at all for what i saw as an assupull of the century in the manga itself.* Infact, it makes it worse because it rectonned a bunch of junk from the little that was even in the series, turned it into a fanfiction where Naruto loved Hinata all along even though that is literally complete BS.* That's my beef with it.



Turns out that is a translation error. Naruto never said he always loved Hinata, in fact, he came to the conclusion that Hinata had always loved him.


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## Haruka Katana (Dec 16, 2014)

Inuhanyou said:


> In terms of romance, i would say that a few of the Nardo movies with a girl in it as the heroine had better 'romance' development than the series itself, so i can't really agree  That's why i expected something from SP although i dont know what i expected  The first movie with the actress, the first shippuuden movie with the Hinata look alike who could tell the future, the second shippuuden movie with the tomboy(that one was the best emotion wise i thought)
> 
> And yes they did, and he was very depressed about it, he even had them take his name off the credits of that movie because he felt frustrated that he was unable to be involved in development because they ignored him.


If it's about romance I have no comment on it, since I don't care much bout those in their movies   My main problem with SP is their constant use of their same formulae for Nardo movies, maybe except for RtN and the Kakashi movie, which ironically has Kishi's involvement in it.

Man I don't like Kubo but I feel kinda bad for him.


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 16, 2014)

Maybe people would have an easier time believing it is "canon" if it didn't massively retcon character development and events (I don't think this even needs elaboration by this point) and actually seemed to take place in Narutoverse. The world getting smart phones and nuclear wave guns or whatever the fuck they used in the movie within 2 years is pretty questionable and while it's not impossible given the leaps that were made by chapter 700, it really just does not sit well with what has been established. Then again, it's about aliens, and evidently that's where Kishi decided to take this travesty of a story.


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## tkpirate (Dec 16, 2014)

Tangle said:


> that doesn't state the complete opposite, he still didn't write that script.



Kishi made the original story for the movie.script was written based on that original story by Kishi.even then he changed the script many times.he only didn't write the script most likely because of his lack of time.and he specifically said that the movie shows what happened between chapter 699 and 700.so Kishi is basically saying it's 100% canon.


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## metaXzero (Dec 16, 2014)

OK. What exactly are people saying that this movie retconned?


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## bearzerger (Dec 17, 2014)

The answer is simple. It's crap, but it's canon. Another shitty movie isn't going to ruin the twelve years I enjoyed the manga. Afterall, all the other movies were shitty as well. Yes, the plot of the movie is lame and the romance contrived, but so what? Kishi obviously didn't care enough about what happens between 699 and 700 or he would have written it himself in his manga so I see no reason why I should.


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## Tangle (Dec 17, 2014)

Raniero said:


> It's not about considering anything. It's canon. Get over it.



ya SP fillers r so canonz


it's still not by Kishi (ya know the actual requirement for it being 100% canon) nor did he say it was just as canon as the manga. we will probably never hear of toneri in part 3 nor did Hinata have short hair in 700.  I've always mocked another pairing for relaying on SP, I ain't gonna be a hypocrite.


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## ChickenPotPie (Dec 17, 2014)

metaXzero said:


> OK. What exactly are people saying that this movie retconned?



Naruto was supposed to marry Sakura not Hinata


hurr durr didn't watch the movie but i have my opinionz


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## Tangle (Dec 17, 2014)

ChickenPotPie said:


> hurr durr didn't watch the movie but i have my opinionz



i like how anyone who doesn't worship this movie ain't allowed to have any opinions because they haven't watched it but those who love it and haven't watched it are allowed to


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## ChickenPotPie (Dec 17, 2014)

Tangle said:


> i like how anyone who doesn't worship this movie ain't allowed to have any opinions because they haven't watched it but those who love it and haven't watched it are allowed to



who's worshiping this movie?  does this look like the naruto x hinata fanclub to you?


you just look like more of a jackass trying to stir up excuses.  keep arguing over translations errors and hearsay.


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## Raniero (Dec 17, 2014)

Tangle said:


> ya SP fillers r so canonz
> 
> 
> it's still not by Kishi (ya know the actual requirement for it being 100% canon) nor did he say it was just as canon as the manga. we will probably never hear of toneri in part 3 nor did Hinata have short hair in 700. .


Uh, no, that's not how it works. Anything stated by the author to be canon _is_ canon. It's called 699.5. He worked on it more than enough for it to be taken as his work, never mind that even if he _didn't _work on it, if he called it canon, it's fucking _canon_. 

There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. So shut up and stop with your bullshit.



> I've always mocked another pairing for relaying on SP, I ain't gonna be a hypocrite


Difference being those SP narusaku fillers aren't considered canon nor did Kishimoto have heavy involvement with them, so that's a moot point.


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## NW (Dec 17, 2014)

Kishi says it's canon, it's canon.

it's not something that can even be brought up for debate.


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## Rosi (Dec 17, 2014)

Titanosaurus said:


> The Last is Hinata's fan fiction, there was no romance, Naruto never "loved" Hinata.  Hinata showed up in Naruto's room in the middle of the night, stripped for him, he got excited, they fucked, Hinata got pregnant and in order to keep up the image of a responsible Hokage candidate Naruto became a father.


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## Anthony mosca (Oct 31, 2018)

Inuhanyou said:


> Is this real? Like, do you have a source for this?


Unfortunately the episode where Naruto fought against Gaara during the chunin exam I quote Naruto exactly I could have been just like him I hated everyone and everyone at turn hated me at what point time of him hating everyone did he have time to save Hinata second question he didn't develop his bond to his fellow Villages and to be learned from a Haku During ninja mission in the waves sometimes in order to become stronger you must have something precious worth protected and that is what Naruto's declared his ninja his nindo his ninja way something we also must not forget is now someone else appointed something fanfiction but you ever wonder why every hyuga Clan member looks like each other they might not up and say in any anime but they practice in Clan marriages


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## SoulFire (Oct 31, 2018)

Necro-philia just in time for Halloween!


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