# Japan?s sexual apathy is endangering the global economy



## Sanity Check (Jan 12, 2015)

> People in Japan are so averse to romantic relationships that the country's media even has a name for it: sekkusu shinai shokogun, or "celibacy syndrome," according to a widely circulated Guardian story on the country's low rates of marriage, childbearing and even sex.
> 
> *But this is more than a story about Japan and its cultural quirks: It's a story about the global economy. Japan is the world's third-largest economy, a crucial link in global trade and a significant factor everyone else's economic well-being. It owns almost as much U.S. debt as does China. It's a top trading partner of the U.S., China and lots of other countries. The Japanese economy is in serious enough trouble that it could set the rest of us back. And the biggest source of that trouble is demographic: Japanese people aren't having enough kids to sustain a healthy economy. One big reason they're having fewer kids is that they're not as interested in dating or marrying one another, in part because they're less interested in sex.*
> 
> ...





"Celibacy syndrome."


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## Onomatopoeia (Jan 12, 2015)

Too much yaoi.


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## Suit (Jan 12, 2015)

Japanese girls aren't the most attractive imo, but I'd be willing to make a sacrifice for the pretty ones 

My IQ is only about 140 though, so the kids may not be quite as smart as they would be with an Asian father


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## dr_shadow (Jan 12, 2015)

They're gonna drop below 100 million people in ca. 2040. That can be the symbolic milestone when they stop being relevant to the global community.

Unless they import some people from China. ^^


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Jan 12, 2015)

mr_shadow said:


> They're gonna drop below 100 million people in ca. 2040. That can be the symbolic milestone when they stop being relevant to the global community.
> 
> *Unless they import some people from China.* ^^



I suspect they would prefer to be nuclear bombed again than do that.


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## dream (Jan 12, 2015)

> Japanese women, for their part, often avoid romantic relationships because Japanese laws and social norms can make it extremely difficult for women to have both a family and a career.



Something that really needs to change among other things in Japan.


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## Suit (Jan 12, 2015)

Dream said:


> Something that really needs to change among other things in Japan.



How is it particularly more difficult there? It seems that in general, if both parents work, no one's around to take care of children and stuff.


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## petrichor (Jan 12, 2015)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese became the first people to become robots.


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## petrichor (Jan 12, 2015)

My boss is looking for a worthwhile article to write, and I think this is the one. I've been aware of this phenomenon and I don't know why i've never delved deep into this issue before.


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## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't understand how one person is not sexually attracted, let alone a whole country, and one of the biggest ones in that .


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

Dream said:


> Something that really needs to change among other things in Japan.


*The general conservative attitudes are changing, slowly but surely.
*


Lucky Rue said:


> How is it particularly more difficult there? It seems that in general, if both parents work, no one's around to take care of children and stuff.


*To start, the disparity between women's wages and men's wages is extremely high.*


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 12, 2015)

Lets go over there and fuck them up.


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## Griever (Jan 12, 2015)

> sekkusu shinai shokogun



Sounds badass 

But it's not..... it's really not. i don't understand it.


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## Sanity Check (Jan 12, 2015)

Lucky Rue said:


> How is it particularly more difficult there? It seems that in general, if both parents work, no one's around to take care of children and stuff.



I think the average work day for career minded folk in japan could be 12-15 hours or more.  With 6-7 day weeks.  Hence the japanese term _Karōshi_, death from overwork.


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

*And the "not-having-sex syndrome" sounds hilarious.*


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

The Women usually had high standards and the Guys figured its too much to deal with and they risk losing everything from divorce and shit so they figured "why bother?"

Plus, there is technology and shit that the men has immersed themselves into. 
Japanese are going to die out in few centuries if this keeps up.


The people have lost touch of themselves and each other in this materialistic world.
Interactions such as cuddling are becoming a commodity to be leased to the average Japanese male.
America and the western world will be well on its way to reaching Japan's fate.


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## Zaru (Jan 12, 2015)

Lucky Rue said:


> How is it particularly more difficult there? It seems that in general, if both parents work, no one's around to take care of children and stuff.



Full-time working parents are never going to have an easy time raising children.
But in Japan, women are expected to not even try. Choose either, or feel the heat. And "full-time" in Japan, as Sanity Check posted, is quite absurd.

A lot of unlucky factors came together in Japan to destroy birth rates.
But it's actually curious: There are European countries, among them the economical giant Germany that clocks in just below Japan, with birth rates lower than Japan, but without the obvious signs. 

When you look at Japan, you see economical and social factors working together to discourage fertility and provide ample alternatives/replacements for the social aspects they miss out on. It's in fact so obvious that plenty of people write about it.

When I look at Germany, or my own country which is very similar and has a birthrate basically equivalent to Japan, I see... an economy that's doing quite alright, no massive escapism culture, no absurd social pressures towards men OR women, no strange signs of devalued social interaction like ubiquitious paying for shallow human company... yet our birthrates are just about the same. I can understand why the japanese are not having children, but why aren't WE? That's a much bigger mystery to me.


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## Jeff (Jan 12, 2015)

I think it sometimes has to do with the international mindset that prevails there.  Many friends I have who are single and "not looking" for marriage or a boyfriend at the moment are concerned with their own personal aspirations being stomped on if they have a child.  It's not like before when they had no social mobility.  Many are able to travel abroad and see the other societies of the world (which are not as gender-biased as Japan) and they desire the freedom and independence that comes with not being married.

Not to mention that many of my friends have issues finding Japanese men attractive.  It's probably the fact that Japanese men are the ones who are apathetic towards intimacy and fucking douchebags because they still live under the impression that they have the total say in relationships.  Even if that isn't true with all men, the stereotype remains and some of my friends believe entering a relationship will block them from doing what they want to do.

The fight for female empowerment in Japan is a losing one, which is why there is nothing being done to aid them in pursuing their dreams while having a husband and children.

I taught children at an international preschool and according to nearly all my students (which was around 100 or so, from varying ages) at least 95% of their mothers do not work.  Some took part time jobs when their children got to the age of 8 or so because at that age they can technically "take care of themselves" in regards to going to school and coming home from school, but for the most part many of them had no career and lived as the obedient housewife.  One told me she was once a performer for the famed Takarazuka Revue (the all female theatre group that is likely the most famous in Japan) but she gave it up.  She said she trained from a relatively young age, however she decided to have a child.  Now she just comes to the school everyday at 2 pm and although there is no doubt she loves her son...I can always sense a little bit of sadness when she gets into her minivan and drives away.


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Dream said:


> Something that really needs to change among other things in Japan.



Yes, for example things should return to natural order (not just in Japan but everywhere), and women should stop getting brainwashed by feminist bullshit about getting careers and competing with men (which is an idea a few elite men who wanted women to work started and promoted) but rather get men who can provide for them while they take care of the kids, as is the natural order of things.


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## Sasuke_Bateman (Jan 12, 2015)

Good good, the answer is simple.


Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

Forces said:


> Yes, for example things should return to natural order (not just in Japan but everywhere), and women should stop getting brainwashed by feminist bullshit about getting careers and competing with men (*which is an idea a few elite men who wanted women to work started and promoted)* but rather get men who can provide for them while they take care of the kids, as is the natural order of things.


*That's true at all....

...actually, nothing in your post makes any sense.*


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Good good, the answer is simple.
> 
> 
> Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime



Anime where goats are the new lolis?


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## Linkdarkside (Jan 12, 2015)

just ban contraceptives.


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *That's true at all....
> 
> ...actually, nothing in your post makes any sense.*




Go read some evolutionary psychology.


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## Vermin (Jan 12, 2015)

no offense to anyone here that is a parent/will be one but lets face it, children are deathtraps at the moment, why do you think the birthrates in the usa are dropping down too? people (or at least the teenagers) have realized that 

when you're trying to work and make a better life for yourself who the fuck wants to be stuck with a child? and the same thing can be said for having a romantic relationship

you have enough shit on your plate you don't want to deal with anyone else


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## Zaru (Jan 12, 2015)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Good good, the answer is simple.
> 
> 
> Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime



Considering the usual depiction of foreigners or even half-bloods in anime, that'd be absolutely hilarious.


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## Jeff (Jan 12, 2015)

Japan is much more open to immigration, however it's hard when your ideal foreigner is an American or some other Western country person and you expect them to work ridiculous work days while facing deeply ingrained racism and prejudice from the local populace.

Meanwhile, their most plentiful source of immigrant workers are from China, Korea, and Southeast Asia, but it's hard when a boatload of Japanese people outright hate Koreans and Chinese.

The atmosphere is basically:

"Hey come and work here, strong American.  You may have to work 70 hour weeks for a salary that is less than what you would make in your home country.  Also, on the way home, let's have all of our native Japanese people stare at you because you have become a commodity in Japanese society...because we all know foreigners are just people that provide us entertainment with their exotic ideas, fashion, and humor.  As you know, anything foreigners say are funny because they don't understand Japanese culture.  I know all this from the media, which shows us how shitty our lives are in compared to foreigners"


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

Forces said:


> Go read some evolutionary psychology.



*Neither here nor there. Your basic history facts are wrong.*


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## Linkdarkside (Jan 12, 2015)

Zaru said:


> Considering the usual depiction of foreigners or even half-bloods in anime, that'd be absolutely hilarious.



[YOUTUBE]EtzlKJ1dObU[/YOUTUBE]


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *Neither here nor there. Your basic history facts are wrong.*



Uhh no? Men created feminism, that's not a hidden fact.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jan 12, 2015)

Every developed nation has a dropping birthrate, yet Japan also has a problem with is its tragic social climate too. The stories on human interaction are quite sad, and the matters of sex even sadder. The countries of the west, people are having more and more sex, just less children and there's no crisis of social interaction either.



Zaru said:


> Considering the usual depiction of foreigners or even half-bloods in anime, that'd be absolutely hilarious.



Japan has a very weird image issue. They clearly idealize European features, but can still express that nationalistic xenophobia too. One gets the impression they attribute those aforementioned features to their own race at times.


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

*I love how the entire Cafe comes over every time we're about flaws in Japan.*


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

Forces said:


> Anime where goats are the new lolis?


Don't give anyone any ideas 


Linkdarkside said:


> just ban contraceptives.



Japan's government may impose a bachelor's tax on everyone that isn't married.


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## Zaru (Jan 12, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> Japan's government may impose a bachelor's tax on everyone that isn't married.



Then people would arrange (even more) hollow marriages just to evade it... and then keep doing what they've been doing before, which is not having enough children.


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## Jeff (Jan 12, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> Japan's government may impose a bachelor's tax on everyone that isn't married.



さすが Japan.

Make surface level changes without any sort of insight into the real issues facing their society.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Jan 12, 2015)

Zaru said:


> Full-time working parents are never going to have an easy time raising children.
> But in Japan, women are expected to not even try. Choose either, or feel the heat. And "full-time" in Japan, as Sanity Check posted, is quite absurd.
> 
> A lot of unlucky factors came together in Japan to destroy birth rates.
> ...



I see many people who have the capacity to have children but prefer not to because is too much work and the money and time spent on them can be used for travels and other luxuries.

Modern people are not very eager to sacrifice themselves with the difficulties of raising children, may be one of the side effects of education and wealth, you only live once, money and time are better spent on enjoying life.


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## Hand Banana (Jan 12, 2015)

Risyth said:


> *I love how the entire Cafe comes over every time we're about flaws in Japan.*



And then you show up to counterbalance it.


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## the_notorious_Z.É. (Jan 12, 2015)

Linkdarkside said:


> just ban contraceptives.



Wouldn't do any major difference considering they are not doing any sex to begin with.


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## kidgogeta (Jan 12, 2015)

Go on a little website that starts with t and ends with demon and this answers how Japanese males have taken females out of the equation. I mean seriously why even play the dating game when they've shit like that out for the price of a night out drinking.

If you don't think there's a correlation between this and how Japan is so far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to fapping technology you are out of your mind.


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## Zaru (Jan 12, 2015)

the_notorious_Z.?. said:


> I see many people who have the capacity to have children but prefer not to because is too much work and the money and time spent on them can be used for travels and other luxuries.
> 
> Modern people are not very eager to sacrifice themselves with the difficulties of raising children, may be one of the side effects of education and wealth, you only live once, money and time are better spent on enjoying life.



The joke is that this is a typical "It's fine as long I'm the only one doing it" behaviour which is simply not sustainable.

All this does is genetically select for high-risk, low-responsibility behaviour types and against intelligence in the long run. Because those who don't give a darn have the children that make up future generations. And that's without even considering immigrants.

I hope I'm dead before those generations get decisive power in countries with WMDs or well-funded militaries.


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## Karasu (Jan 12, 2015)

Hear about this every now and again - not good. You might be interested in *The Age of Parasite Singles * by Masahiro Yamada if you haven't read it already.


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

Hand Banana said:


> And then you show up to counterbalance it.



*I was here early. *


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

Zaru said:


> Then people would arrange (even more) hollow marriages just to evade it... and then keep doing what they've been doing before, which is not having enough children.



VR is going to be huge in 5 to 10 years, maybe even sooner than that.

The age of true escapism is among us, the men in society are growing more
risk averse. 

Conventional/traditional marriages and relationships will be phased out.
Or more Marriages will be arranged and the men will hop into their VR worlds and 
fuck their virtual Waifus 

Love plus is very popular in japan, just imagine the damage it would do if there was a VR version.
Both of the sexes are going to have to compromise or else Japan is going to die out.


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

This is Nature doing it's work. Japan is too overpopulated, they will stop mating for a while until they're "underpopulated" instead, then their desire comes back and such the cycle continues.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Go on a little website that starts with t and ends with demon and this answers how Japanese males have taken females out of the equation. I mean seriously why even play the dating game when they've shit like that out for the price of a night out drinking.
> 
> If you don't think there's a correlation between this and how Japan is so far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to fapping technology you are out of your mind.



The SJW s are going to gaslight you for such a bold statement. 
The dating game may be rigged but it was always like that.
Biological imperatives and sexual selection will conflict with technology
We live in a age where people are beginning to realize "why bother"
People are worrying about the chances of failing instead of succeeding. 
Now we have advanced technology thats growing and promises that it offer an alternative.
Men probably won't have to try anymore because everything will be there in the future albeit its just robots and VR. 
It would be a shame if the Japanese died out tho because of all of this.



Forces said:


> This is Nature doing it's work. Japan is too overpopulated, they will stop mating for a while until they're "underpopulated" instead, then their desire comes back and such the cycle continues.



More like Hypergamy and technology colliding and Men realizing that the former has always affected the dating game/love life.
Not to mention society's expectations of Men.
A Paradigm shift is going to occur.


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> The SJW s are going to gaslight you for such a bold statement.
> The dating game may be rigged but it was always like that.
> Biological imperatives and sexual selection will conflict with technology
> We live in a age where people are beginning to realize "why bother"
> ...



Fortunately enough, there are decadent-degenerative forces that stop a civilization from advancing too much whether in art, science or technology. This is why every ancient civilization fell.


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## Forces (Jan 12, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> More like Hypergamy and technology colliding and Men realizing that the former has always affected the dating game/love life.
> Not to mention society's expectations of Men.
> A Paradigm shift is going to occur.



Those are most likely just the methods in which Nature is making everything right, although they present a problem for us currently, mankind will eventually have to go back to a time of struggle, as struggle is fundamental. Easiness creates nihilism and all sorts of weird shit. (eg: pillow fucking people)


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## EJ (Jan 12, 2015)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Good good, the answer is simple.
> 
> 
> Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime



Haha, this made me smile.


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## Suit (Jan 12, 2015)

Zaru said:


> The joke is that this is a typical "It's fine as long I'm the only one doing it" behaviour which is simply not sustainable.
> 
> All this does is genetically select for high-risk, low-responsibility behaviour types and against intelligence in the long run. Because those who don't give a darn have the children that make up future generations. And that's without even considering immigrants.
> 
> I hope I'm dead before those generations get decisive power in countries with WMDs or well-funded militaries.



What I'm getting from this is that intelligent people need to swallow the responsibility pill and reproduce so as to give the next generation a chance at including quality people?

Well fuck, now I feel like a douche for not wanting kids. Guess I'd better donate a lot of sperm then.


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## HolyHands (Jan 12, 2015)

Low birth rate is a universal problem that's affecting pretty much every first world country. In the age of advanced technology and a troubling economy, having children just isn't the ideal path to take for most people.

In Japan, the problem is exacerbated because they have a grueling work environment on top of it, as well as a hostile environment that looks down on women who want to get a career and a family. Men are frustrated with being expected to work themselves to the bone to be a provider. Women are frustrated with being expected to be baby factories when they grow up. It's just not worth the trouble, so both genders are responding by removing themselves from the married life.

People really shouldn't blame a single gender for this problem, as Japan's lack of sex is affecting both men and women.


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## Garfield (Jan 12, 2015)

I wonder if just like other things like the scare about "Holy shit Japan in recession", twenty years or thirty years down the line we'll end up thinking, "hm, it wasn't really as bad as we thought it was".

Then again that's a really bad question to ask for a shitload of reasons.

I'm pretty conflicted about my opinions about Japan for some reason  Need to talk about these things with some Japanese person. Luckily am building up such an acquaintance.


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## Risyth (Jan 12, 2015)

*But Japan's recession lasted from '94/'95 to...now.*


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## Nep Nep (Jan 12, 2015)

Lucky Rue said:


> Japanese girls aren't the most attractive imo, but I'd be willing to make a sacrifice for the pretty ones
> 
> My IQ is only about 140 though, so the kids may not be quite as smart as they would be with an Asian father



Hook me up too.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

Forces said:


> Those are most likely just the methods in which Nature is making everything right, although they present a problem for us currently, mankind will eventually have to go back to a time of struggle, as struggle is fundamental. Easiness creates nihilism and all sorts of weird shit. (eg: pillow fucking people)



You attribute the will to take the easy way as nihilistic? 
Some people don't want to struggle and would rather go about life without adhering to society's expectation. If they find an alternative, they will likely go for that alternative.
A shame that the alternative is leading to a possible depopulation crisis 
The men are figuring that out, thus they opt out. 
This may be the act of nature and people realizing "why the fuck do I gotta do this"
lol.
Struggle may foster some sort understanding between both sexes, probably...

The weird shit you see is there for people to compensate for the lack of not having a live sexual partner.
They already have message parlors, and even cuddle facilities where the average Japanese cuddles with a cute Woman for a fee.
The woman even does things such as clear the male's ears or even pluck their eyeballs.
All with no attachment whatsoever 
The Japanese would probably open up a pillow parlor with excellent pillows for Men to take advantage of


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## Sadgoob (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm moving to Japan.

To save the world.


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## GearsUp (Jan 12, 2015)

Yes please 

It desperately needs more virgins


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 12, 2015)

GearsUp said:


> Yes please
> 
> It desperately needs more virgins



You should go there, you'd be needed there


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## GearsUp (Jan 12, 2015)

we bout to have a conflict?


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## petrichor (Jan 12, 2015)

kidgogeta said:


> Go on a little website that starts with t and ends with demon and this answers how Japanese males have taken females out of the equation. *I mean seriously why even play the dating game when they've shit like that out for the price of a night out drinking.*
> 
> If you don't think there's a correlation between this and how Japan is so far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to fapping technology you are out of your mind.



Because the intimate and affectionate warm touch of another person is better than spending your money on inanimate, soulless things that can give you a brief and meaningless pleasure.

Men that spend fortune on freak toys are better off emasculated.


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## Gino (Jan 12, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> I'm moving to Japan.
> 
> To save the world.






Harem King.


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## HaxHax (Jan 12, 2015)

Forces said:


> This is Nature doing it's work. Japan is too overpopulated, they will stop mating for a while until they're "underpopulated" instead, then their desire comes back and such the cycle continues.



People used to have lots of children because lots used to die young until very recently. Children were (and still are in a lot of places) necessary to support the parents once they grow old. But in developed countries there's just no need any more.


The real solution is to kill all old people.


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## kidgogeta (Jan 12, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Because the intimate and affectionate warm touch of another person.


LOL. Yeah that's why most people get married all right. In the end what it comes down to is if there wasn't at least somewhat guaranteed steady sex marriage wouldn't even be a thing. Also, you likely just referenced the existence of souls with a straight face. Wake up.

Since when do you  need to commit to a relationship to be intimate with another human being?


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## scerpers (Jan 13, 2015)

most young men in japan figure that having a waifu is easier to maintain and be with than a real women

and they're completely correct.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 13, 2015)

Well this article got me curious so I looked up my country's rate of virginity loss.

According to the results from one study I found, 85% of people in the U.S. have had some form of sex by the age of 21.

So, now I'm fucking depressed... 

I feel your pain, Japan. Come over here so we can hold each other.

Take your clothes off first.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

I remember reading somewhere that the problem with Japan sexual apathy is the girls standards and the guys just say "Fuck it."

I don't know if that is true though.


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## Samehada (Jan 13, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Well this article got me curious so I looked up my country's rate of virginity loss.
> 
> According to the results from one study I found, 85% of people in the U.S. have had some form of sex by the age of 21.
> 
> ...



"Some form of sex" is incredibly vague and because of some "embarrassment" I wouldn't be surprised if people who took the survey stretched the truth a little.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> I remember reading somewhere that the problem with Japan sexual apathy is the girls standards and the guys just say "Fuck it."
> 
> I don't know if that is true though.



It is true 

The Japanese Women try and skew that shit the other way around.
Trust me, the Guys saw how high the Standards were that Women had and they decided to opt out.
When there isn't a lot of Men in the dating game, the Women have nothing really to choose from so they back out. 
Japanese society in a nutshell


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> It would be a shame if the Japanese died out tho because of all of this.



Just Japan? You just said that in the future there will be alternatives to having to play this rigged game designed to make you lose if you are a guy.

If it is as you say don't you think it has the danger of becoming WORLDWIDE?


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## Nikushimi (Jan 13, 2015)

Samehada said:


> "Some form of sex" is incredibly vague and because of some "embarrassment" I wouldn't be surprised if people who took the survey stretched the truth a little.



Supposedly the survey was taken anonymously:



No idea if this is legit or not, but either way...it sucks to feel like you're missing out on a critical life experience that the vast majority of other people have had by the time they're you're age.

Fuck that.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Opting out of the "You have to be handsome, smart, witty, etc. and prove you are better than the 3+ pretenders I already have" game just reminded me about the movie War Games.

Where no matter how much you played against the computer, you always lost. The only way to win the game was not to play.


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## Nikushimi (Jan 13, 2015)

Oh well. Back to drowning my insecurity in materialism and irreverence.


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## Linkofone (Jan 13, 2015)

I feel like we had this discussion.before.


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## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Agenda 21                                 .


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## HolyHands (Jan 13, 2015)

Women lowering their standards isn't going to fix the birth rate problem. Honestly it wouldn't even dent it. A huge obstacle for japanese women is being pressured to choose either a family or a career, along with the fact that the economy is dwindling, thus making either choice difficult and restricting. Those problems aren't gonna go away just because she's dating an average guy rather than a handsome guy.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

HolyHands said:


> Women lowering their standards isn't going to fix the birth rate problem. Honestly it wouldn't even dent it. A huge obstacle for japanese women is being pressured to choose either a family or a career, along with the fact that the economy is dwindling, thus making either choice difficult and restricting. Those problems aren't gonna go away just because she's *dating an average guy *rather than a handsome guy.



You don't grasp the situation, they would have to even settle for less than average to make even a dent.


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## Jeff (Jan 13, 2015)

Yeah image has a huge role in dating in Japan and the standards have been raised.

But not like all the child-bearing women in Japan are attractive themselves.  There are some fugly Japanese girls in the cities these days


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Didn't thought about that


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## Pliskin (Jan 13, 2015)

Most western countries mitigate these problems via immigration. Not sure how viable that is for an island country with a incredibly homogeneous population.


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## Jeff (Jan 13, 2015)

It's not only a race thing, but because Japan is fucking expensive to raise a family in.

I've tossed around living in Japan forever if I can find a nice woman, but just the thought of my children's future being shit in the current Japanese society has pretty much stopped me from that plan.

Sure you get a "high quality of life" and it is a safe country, but the only place foreigners can consistently get jobs are in the big cities where living costs will destroy you.

Why immigrate to a country where your children will be discriminated against, where you have literally no say and no political power system looking out for you, and where the economy will go under when your children are looking for jobs?


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## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Talking about immigration I say about the standards shit from what I have read from in-Japan men perspective.

But truth to be told, a lot of stories I have been told about foreign men in Japan, including a guy I personally know (and had evidence to back up at least one of his claims) say that it is very easy to date in Japan (if you are westerner) as long as you dare to approach a girl.

I always thought Japan was super uber duper hard for foreign men to date, great was my surprise to find this is not the case.


----------



## Jeff (Jan 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Talking about immigration I say about the standards shit from what I have read from in-Japan men perspective.
> 
> But truth to be told, a lot of stories I have been told about foreign men in Japan, including a guy I personally know (and had evidence to back up at least one of his claims) say that it is very easy to date in Japan (if you are westerner) as long as you dare to approach a girl.
> 
> I always thought Japan was super uber duper hard for foreign men to date, great was my surprise to find this is not the case.



It is not.  The ideal man thanks to the media is the Western man.  I've had girls fall head over heels for an average American douchebag guy who was balding and had a belly, simply because he was white.  I see white men with Japanese women everywhere and anywhere throughout the country.  But that won't really solve anything, because not all women are like that.  Some find a Western guy "ideal" but aren't looking for marriage.  And those that get married often escape Japan for greener pastures in their husband's home country.


----------



## zenieth (Jan 13, 2015)

Getting a date in japan isn't hard. The issue in japan is cost of living, social norms and meat.

Sweet jesus meat is expensive.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Talking about immigration I say about the standards shit from what I have read from in-Japan men perspective.
> 
> But truth to be told, a lot of stories I have been told about foreign men in Japan, including a guy I personally know (and had evidence to back up at least one of his claims) say that it is very easy to date in Japan (if you are westerner) as long as you dare to approach a girl.
> 
> I always thought Japan was super uber duper hard for foreign men to date, great was my surprise to find this is not the case.


Western guys are more chivarlous than asians from what I heard. Asian guys don't seem to mind going dutch and don't believe in stuff like Women are Children first. Thats mainly because of different cultures, Chivarly was a thing that started in Europe, Ofcourse Women will prefer a guy that puts them on pedestal than a one that doesn't.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Jeff said:


> It is not.  The ideal man thanks to the media is the Western man.  I've had girls fall head over heels for an average American douchebag guy who was balding and had a belly, simply because he was white.  I see white men with Japanese women everywhere and anywhere throughout the country.  But that won't really solve anything, because not all women are like that.  Some find a Western guy "ideal" but aren't looking for marriage.  And those that get married often escape Japan for greener pastures in their husband's home country.



Seems the same situation we have in Mexico's Capital, here is basically Ninja Gaiden hard in dating, unless you are foreign guy. It doesn't help if you look exactly the same as a foreign US man would, if you are a native at least here is fucking hard, seems the situation is different in the provinces.


----------



## Jeff (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> Western guys are more chivarlous than asians from what I heard. Asian guys don't seem to mind going dutch and don't believe in stuff like Women are Children first. Thats mainly because of different cultures, Chivarly was a thing that started in Europe, Ofcourse Women will prefer a guy that puts them on pedestal than a one that doesn't.



This is true.  And Japanese women have more exposure to this with the popularity of Western dramas in Japan.  I don't think it consumes their search for a man, but for some it plays a part in it.

However it doesn't help them distinguish a desirable partner from an undesirable one.


----------



## kluang (Jan 13, 2015)

Onomatopoeia said:


> Too much yaoi.



Kill off the netorare genre.

Its not helping, at all.


Netorare is killing the world economy.




we need real life catgirls


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Jeff said:


> This is true.  And Japanese women have more exposure to this with the popularity of Western dramas in Japan.  I don't think it consumes their search for a man, but for some it plays a part in it.
> 
> However it doesn't help them distinguish a desirable partner from an undesirable one.


I knew it. 
Women want it both ways, People deny this but its true. They want men to respect that Women don't have to be housewives and get angry at stuff like "Get back in the ketchin" , "Make me a sandwhich" . Yet they expect men to open doors for them, Protect them, Be willing to go to the army to fight for oil for them, And to be both a "Gentleman" and a "Bad boy" at the same time. . 

This is what happens when you give women too much freedom. They tried to warn us, They tried to tell us that Women are the cause Of the disasters in the world, yet The western world didn't listen and now look what happened. 

If Society Wanted Gender roles to be abolished and for genders to be equal then they shouldn't have given the power to women to deciede what gender role gets abolished and what gender role stays, Women abolished the ones that harms them but kept the ones that harms men but helps women. 




 , People will call me a woman hater for this but I am only telling the truth.


----------



## Arinna (Jan 13, 2015)

To make matters worse, every aspects of the intimate relationship are commercialised.
 You want to converse with your boyfriend ? go to the host club
You want to lay on your girlfriend's lap and have your ears cleaned out ? There's a cafe for that
You want to just cuddle your girlfriend ? there's the cuddle-only hotel (no sex) 
And of course, if you want sex - it is also readily available if you pay

The mindset is : why bother dating anymore when you can get all the benefits of a relationship without attachments ? It's pretty sad.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

I remember it was raining, fucking hard raining and my sister had to pick up a work item from a guy, she actually had to get off the car and pick it while the guy stayed in his car which was crossing the street because the guy said so.

Considering the guy was the one that accidentally took the work item from her then I absolutely agreed that it was his role to be the one that got rain on his ass and walked the distance, also from what I remember the way the cars were parked it was easier for him to walk than for her. So there were actual valid points to say the guy was a dick and my sister brought them up.

Then when my sister brought those valid points for why the guy should had been the one to get off from his car or at least meet her halfway my mother replied "Let alone those reasons, HE IS A MAN!" (basically that because he is a man he had the obligation to do so and that weighed as much if not more than the legitimate reasons). And I was like "Sigh...... why do I even bother replying to this? "


----------



## rajin (Jan 13, 2015)

I Read This Article 2 weeks ago maybe 

Marriage demands commitment . Child demands much more the commitment .
it is 21st century . technological advanced human world . 
now men and women measure the pros and cons of relationships before moving forward
In this climate thinking about having a child means losing almost all your earnings with negligible Savings . 

We also have virtual world and commercialisation of feelings of love and affection 

No one mentioned this point that A Child mostly spend time with 1 parent because Working Partner mostly have job allotments in different cities to different prefectures .

Women Standards : Mostly women are more educated than men and more capable than men hence have higher expectations from their SOUL MATER LIFE PARTNER 
when you meet an average guy than these thoughts becomes apparent that they can find a better partner . 

Academically or Other capabilities Men and Women check each others qualities to Social+Financial Value and marriage puts both of them into reasonable disadvantage
so it is better to be SINGLE than going through the hardships of a MARRIAGE LIFE

This is Materialistic world at its strongest Best


----------



## Jeff (Jan 13, 2015)

Arinna said:


> To make matters worse, every aspects of the intimate relationship are commercialised.
> You want to converse with your boyfriend ? go to the host club
> You want to lay on your girlfriend's lap and have your ears cleaned out ? There's a cafe for that
> You want to just cuddle your girlfriend ? there's the cuddle-only hotel (no sex)
> ...



Yes that is true, but there is also the opposite end of the spectrum in regards to how certain holidays and packages are advertised as well.

For example, Christmas (actually, Christmas Eve) is primarily a couples' day rather than the typical family-friends one in the West.  Valentine's Day and White Day (March 14) are also similarly hyped.  Although there will be the lonely souls that hang out with lonely friends on those days, it definitely puts the matter of dating and finding someone to spend time with on your mind when you see the countless numbers of couples out on the streets or pretty much wherever you go.  Same goes for any event in Japan: Ohanami, light-ups, etc.  Most of my friends have been to a goukon, which is basically a social outing meant to meet a potential dating partner.  So there is no extreme disdain for dating in Japan.  You can go to any of the big cities and see couples around shopping, eating, talking about stupid shit, etc.  It just probably occurs at a lower frequency than in other countries.  And anything that is out of the ordinary is something that America or the outside world instantly views as "flawed" and is hyped the shit out of.

Wait for two more years once I enter my graduate school and then I will come back with more answers for you all


----------



## Forces (Jan 13, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> You attribute the will to take the easy way as nihilistic?
> Some people don't want to struggle and would rather go about life without adhering to society's expectation. If they find an alternative, they will likely go for that alternative.
> A shame that the alternative is leading to a possible depopulation crisis
> The men are figuring that out, thus they opt out.
> ...




No, the will to take the easy is actually struggle itself, but when there is no actual struggle then the nihilism comes, so it's the other way around.


----------



## Aduro (Jan 13, 2015)

I don't get how this is a problems seeing as there are way more people than the planet can support in a hundred years (unless we start environmentally efficiently killing each other over resources).


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

Aduro said:


> I don't get how this is a problems seeing as there are way more people than the planet can support in a hundred years (unless we start environmentally efficiently killing each other over resources).



We are already fighting over resources.
That's what the wars were for.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Just Japan? You just said that in the future there will be alternatives to having to play this rigged game designed to make you lose if you are a guy.
> 
> If it is as you say don't you think it has the danger of becoming WORLDWIDE?



Yeah, it may become worldwide but Japan would likely go first.

At least the world won't die out during our lifetime


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 13, 2015)

This is happening in western nations too, but immigration and single motherhood mask the problem a bit. As some have mentioned people (mostly men) are finally waking up to the fact that the system is BS. Now, if we could legalize abortion all over and give men legal paternal surrender we could finally lift the cloud of BS off society completely.


----------



## Aduro (Jan 13, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> We are already fighting over resources.
> That's what the wars were for.



Yes but its impolite to do so and claim land afterwards these days which will be very important when the population gets at lest another two billion higher in 100 years. Besides rich countries aren't desperate enough to do it to other rich countries at the moment but that can change quickly.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

At least some of you guys realize how you were playing a rigged game since birth.
Its always been this way.
It's called evolution. 

Pretty funny that the economy is being affected now. 
Economy is dependent on the failures and on men that continue to waste their time
playing with Hypergamy.


----------



## Aeternus (Jan 13, 2015)

Well, this is a problem that has been plaguing a lot of, if not almost all, First World countries, for a number of reasons, with money being one of the obvious ones. It may not yet be so apparent yet in other countries but sooner or later it is something that will need to be dealt with somehow. 
Doubt my parents would have any kids the way things are now. Raising five kids today would be way too expensive. Hell, they would even considering having just one kid.


----------



## Blue (Jan 13, 2015)

Zaru said:


> I can understand why the japanese are not having children, but why aren't WE? That's a much bigger mystery to me.



Birthrate is inversely proportional to education. 

Smart people simply don't have kids.


----------



## The Void (Jan 13, 2015)

That's the results of feminism....the same thing is happening in Europe and Murikkka.


----------



## The Void (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> I knew it.
> Women want it both ways, People deny this but its true. They want men to respect that Women don't have to be housewives and get angry at stuff like "Get back in the ketchin" , "Make me a sandwhich" . Yet they expect men to open doors for them, Protect them, Be willing to go to the army to fight for oil for them, And to be both a "Gentleman" and a "Bad boy" at the same time. .
> 
> This is what happens when you give women too much freedom. They tried to warn us, They tried to tell us that Women are the cause Of the disasters in the world, yet The western world didn't listen and now look what happened.
> ...



Great post. I totally agree


----------



## Kind of a big deal (Jan 13, 2015)

Re-introduce arranged marriages in Japan. With a family contract that says there needs to be children from this marriage, or at least attempt to. I'm sure if you disguise it as 'duty' to your family and society, it will be succesfull in Japan. Kinda sucks for the masses of people who don't like the partner they end up with, but they had a shot at trying marriages and partners themselves, and the Japanese people male and female clearly blew it over the last decades.

Alongside this reform, the government needs to make it financially interesting to have children, so _force_ companies to offer part time jobs at decent salaries for women especially.


----------



## Aeternus (Jan 13, 2015)

While I agree that there are women out there that want it both ways, still that doesn't mean that men shouldn't act like gentlemen anyway.


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 13, 2015)

I read this article a few days ago but didn't know it was posted here. Japan is always fascinating to read about in how the younger generations are no longer willing to buy into the lies they were told growing up. They are probably light years ahead of everyone else in that regard. It is exacerbated by the insanely high standards and expectations in place so they just innovate in weird directions to compensate (lol Dakimakura). 

If they don't fix some of these societal issues to get their people breeding again or make immigration more viable for people this is going to be an epic collapse a few decades from now.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> While I agree that there are women out there that want it both ways, still that doesn't mean that men shouldn't act like gentlemen anyway.


Why should I subscribe to the western "Gentleman" Ideals when my culture doesn't demand it?


----------



## Aeternus (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> Why should I subscribe to the western "Gentleman" Ideals when my culture doesn't demand it?


It shouldn't really be an issue of whether culture demands it or not. It is just a nice thing to do.


----------



## Vermilion Kn (Jan 13, 2015)

> If they don't fix some of these societal issues to get their people breeding again or make immigration more viable for people this is going to be an epic collapse a few decades from now.



Maybe they'll copy the west and start subsidizing single mothers and a massive scale.


----------



## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> It shouldn't really be an issue of whether culture demands it or not. It is just a nice thing to do.


Why don't women make me sandwiches? Its just the nice thing to do :ignoramus


----------



## Vandal Savage (Jan 13, 2015)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Maybe they'll copy the west and start subsidizing single mothers and a massive scale.



Japan already has outrageous amounts of debt. If they instituted that concept with the way things currently are they might just have cut the wrong wire on this ticking time bomb.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 13, 2015)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> It shouldn't really be an issue of whether culture demands it or not. It is just a nice thing to do.



That's kind of the problem.


----------



## CyberianGinseng (Jan 13, 2015)

Zaru said:


> Full-time working parents are never going to have an easy time raising children.
> But in Japan, women are expected to not even try. Choose either, or feel the heat. And "full-time" in Japan, as Sanity Check posted, is quite absurd.
> 
> A lot of unlucky factors came together in Japan to destroy birth rates.
> ...


So waitaminute. Are you experiencing the same time bomb set to go off as the Japanese?





Vermilion Kn said:


> Maybe they'll copy the west and start subsidizing single mothers and a massive scale.


That would lead to subsidizing poverty on a massive scale.





Eternal Dreamer said:


> It shouldn't really be an issue of whether culture demands it or not. It is just a nice thing to do.


There's a whole mulitverse of nice things for people to do *for one another*, none of which require one gender to prostrate itself before the other.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

Eternal Dreamer said:


> While I agree that there are women out there that want it both ways, still that doesn't mean that men shouldn't act like gentlemen anyway.



[YOUTUBE]zu0rP2VWLWw[/YOUTUBE]​


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 13, 2015)

Lucky Rue said:


> Japanese girls aren't the most attractive imo, but I'd be willing to make a sacrifice for the pretty ones
> 
> My IQ is only about 140 though, so the kids may not be quite as smart as they would be with an Asian father



Yes, because they want your dirty baka gaijin sperm 


Mr. Black Leg said:


> I don't understand how one person is not sexually attracted, let alone a whole country, and one of the biggest ones in that .



When real sex doesn't live up to Tentacle Porn, news at 11.


Zaru said:


> When I look at Germany, or my own country which is very similar and has a birthrate basically equivalent to Japan, I see... an economy that's doing quite alright, no massive escapism culture, no absurd social pressures towards men OR women, no strange signs of devalued social interaction like ubiquitious paying for shallow human company... yet our birthrates are just about the same. I can understand why the japanese are not having children, but why aren't WE? That's a much bigger mystery to me.


Maybe these countries are just curbing world population naturally?



Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Good good, the answer is simple.
> 
> 
> Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime



Naturally purple haired people isn't diverse enough for you?!


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> Why don't women make me sandwiches? Its just the nice thing to do :ignoramus



[


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## Agmaster (Jan 13, 2015)

But yay, it's coming of age day so the young wild and free roses will solve this crisis.


----------



## reaperunique (Jan 13, 2015)

> It's a top trading partner of the U.S., China and lots of other countries. The Japanese economy is in serious enough trouble that it could set the rest of us back.



Wow now, let's not jump to conclusions here. Japan is indeed a large economy but this is false anxiety.
The link between the declining youthfulness of the country and the world economy is tending towards sensationalism to lure in readers.

Of course this does not negate the issues Japan is facing on both a economic and sociological level.


----------



## Subarashii (Jan 13, 2015)

Agmaster said:


> But yay, it's coming of age day so the young wild and free roses will solve this crisis.



They're Stone Roses


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## Zyrax (Jan 13, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> [


I was just pointing out his BS. If men should be "Gentlemen" because its "The nice thing to do" then women should do traditional housewive things because "Its the nice thing to do"
Oh wait I forgot that Expecting men to do stuff is OK but vice vesra is not


----------



## Zaru (Jan 13, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> Maybe these countries are just curbing world population naturally?


While they (technically we) also tend to be the largest consumers of the world's resources, this is just a futile endeavour in the long run.
Because there are countries that still reproduce like crazy and at some point will want to join in on the resource wasting party.

E.g. any attempts by the west to curb carbon emissions were screwed hard by the rise of China's emissions. Every new vegetarian in the West faces several new daily meat eaters in the East.

Even if "we" stop doing something unsustainable, there are five times as many people in the rest of the world who want to do what we did once they get a chance to do so.


----------



## Agmaster (Jan 13, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> They're Stone Roses



Perfect for admiring while they sit and do little more than gather dust.  Hang on ... that isn't very progressive.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> I was just pointing out his BS. If men should be "Gentlemen" because its "The nice thing to do" then women should do traditional housewive things because "Its the nice thing to do"
> Oh wait I forgot that Expecting men to do stuff is OK but vice vesra is not



Men shouldn't be Gentleman. imo


----------



## Venom (Jan 13, 2015)

Dream said:


> Something that really needs to change among other things in Japan.



On top of the list right after porn/genitalia censorship and pubic hair IMO.


----------



## soulnova (Jan 13, 2015)

I guess "mother=/=worker" is a mindset they need to change first.  
They need to give incentives to allow women/couples to have babies and accessible daycares for anything to improve at all.


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Jan 13, 2015)

Handsome Jack said:


> Birthrate is inversely proportional to education.
> 
> Smart people simply don't have kids.



In what way is that a good thing?
I feel like educated people are smart but lack the wisdom.

Also, only a matter of time before it hits everyone else.


----------



## Mr. Black Leg (Jan 13, 2015)

The Void said:


> That's the results of feminism....the same thing is happening in Europe and Murikkka.



The fuck ? Last I checked Japan is one hell of a patriarchy society and feminism basically didn't arrive there .

How you drew that conclusion is a wonder to me .


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

The Void said:


> That's the results of feminism....the same thing is happening in Europe and Murikkka.



You can't blame Feminism. This has something to do with actualization and the standards that the Sexes set for each other and Hypergamy. 

Remember, Hypergamy has existed since time immemorial


----------



## Vermin (Jan 13, 2015)

this thread was interesting until it turned into women blaming


----------



## petrichor (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> Why don't women make me sandwiches? Its just the nice thing to do :ignoramus





Zyrax said:


> I was just pointing out his BS. If men should be "Gentlemen" because its "The nice thing to do" then women should do traditional housewive things because "Its the nice thing to do"
> Oh wait I forgot that Expecting men to do stuff is OK but vice vesra is not



Check your privilege, misogynist fuccboi.


----------



## petrichor (Jan 13, 2015)

It's amazing how this thread turned into a misogynist fest.


----------



## Deleted member 23 (Jan 13, 2015)

zyken said:


> this thread was interesting until it turned into women blaming



Cafe in a nutshell now. I need to go and join a more active anime forum.


----------



## Yagura (Jan 13, 2015)

petrichor said:


> Check your privilege, misogynist fuccboi.



I think what he means to say is that if women are no longer expected to conform to traditional roles, then neither should men. Perhaps he was a rather crude about getting it across, but he has a point imo.


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

So, Men are misogynist when they don't want anything to do with a rigged game?

Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't is what it looks like :ignoramus


----------



## HolyHands (Jan 13, 2015)

Zyrax said:


> I was just pointing out his BS. If men should be "Gentlemen" because its "The nice thing to do" then women should do traditional housewive things because "Its the nice thing to do"
> Oh wait I forgot that Expecting men to do stuff is OK but vice vesra is not



There's a pretty huge difference between a man holding the door open for a lady and a woman being pressured to give up any hope of a career and being pushed into a lifestyle choice (housewife) that they may not want.



			
				zyken said:
			
		

> this thread was interesting until it turned into women blaming



I never understand how Japan threads always seem to end up blaming women for everything. It's weird as hell considering that feminism isn't even a huge presence in Japan, and women have less power in Japan than they do in America, yet somehow all the blame is dumped on them for not finding otakus attractive. It's weird.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 13, 2015)

HolyHands said:


> A woman being pressured to give up any hope of a career and being pushed into a lifestyle choice  that they may not want.



Hey that happens to men too.


----------



## HolyHands (Jan 13, 2015)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Hey that happens to men too.



Yes, and it's a problem, but not even close on the magnitude it happens to women.

Viable career paths for men: Pretty much any job under the sun with the exception of stay-at-home parent, and nurse.

Viable career paths for women: Nurse, stay-at-home parent. If you try anything else, expect to face discrimination.

Obviously this isn't that big of a problem in first world countries since we've eased up a lot since then, but the social pressure is still there, and that can manifest into discrimination. Nobody is saying that discrimination is a woman-only problem, but surely you can admit that some groups get hit harder with discrimination than others.


----------



## av (Jan 13, 2015)

I am surprised the middle class and below isn't killing themselves en masse, let alone reproducing. This is infinitely cliche, but it's also true - I don't know how most people get out of bed in the morning.

I really, genuinely think some sort of delusions are working in the US. Take a look at CMX - he was good guy, he had a job, etc. I heard someone on here ranting some bullshit about how he had a chemical imbalance.

Fuck that noise: "More than two-thirds of U.S. adults are overweight or obese (Ogden et al., 2014)." (I can't post links due to post count). 

Seriously, the average person is destined to fuck a fat bitch. Why even live.


----------



## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 13, 2015)

HolyHands said:


> Viable career paths for women: Nurse, stay-at-home parent. If you try anything else, expect to face discrimination.


WW 2 era shit for America and not even then was it the only option.
Elsewhere in shit holes of the world where there isn't enough jobs to go around and certain teachings are followed still. Most certainly Yes.


> Viable career paths for men: Pretty much any job under the sun with the exception of stay-at-home parent, and nurse.


I hate to tell you men get to do those things too.
Truly they are the most privileged thing under the sun.


> Nobody is saying that discrimination is a woman-only problem, but surely you can admit that *some groups get hit harder with discrimination than others. *


And you think it's women right now?


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

av said:


> I am surprised the middle class and below isn't killing themselves en masse, let alone reproducing. This is infinitely cliche, but it's also true - I don't know how most people get out of bed in the morning.
> 
> I really, genuinely think some sort of delusions are working in the US. Take a look at CMX - he was good guy, he had a job, etc. I heard someone on here ranting some bullshit about how he had a chemical imbalance.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jagger (Jan 13, 2015)

klad said:


> In what way is that a good thing?
> I feel like educated people are smart but lack the wisdom.
> 
> Also, only a matter of time before it hits everyone else.


Zaru did make a good point about this kind of behaviour somewhere in the earlier pages, but you have to understand smart people understand the the time-consuming task that raising a children is, taking time from their jobs, free time, etc. And, obviously, their own ambitions. 

They won't just throw that away for something that is not obligatory unless you're socially pressed to do so.


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Mr. Black Leg said:


> The fuck ? Last I checked Japan is one hell of a patriarchy society and feminism basically didn't arrive there .
> 
> How you drew that conclusion is a wonder to me .



Going from my lawyman's knowledgement is this:

- Japanese women attempted to set dating standards, similar to western women when you have to be a walking circus and/or win the genetic lottery.

- Men basically responded


----------



## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

It's not feminism's fault. It's social atmosphere and expectations.
Unwritten rules and shit.
Japanese culture was of traditional settings but hypergamy and the advancement of technology and somewhat further opportunity has created a rift between the sexes.

Japanese Women are successful and are getting better jobs than the men.
The Women will not usually date down unlike the Men would do.
They would want a more successful man because of societal pressure and hypergamy "Marrying up"
There are other higher standards set and then we got all of this technology that sexually appeals to Men so they would rather go to that than try their hand with Women. 

So, its not feminism.
You can't blame the "F word" on everything.
Don't be ignorant, people


----------



## Orochibuto (Jan 13, 2015)

Punished Pathos said:


> It's not feminism's fault. It's social atmosphere and expectations.
> Unwritten rules and shit.
> Japanese culture was of traditional settings but hypergamy and the advancement of technology and somewhat further opportunity has created a rift between the sexes.
> 
> ...



I am not blaming feminisn neither Pathos but I do at least in some way Hypergamy.

It seems in Japan thanks to technology, men rather than saying like in the majority of cases"Okay, I will play" just said "Doing all that shit so you find me acceptable?  I am not playing"

I wonder if when virtual reality becomes a reality, will that mean the death of Hypergamy?


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## Vermilion Kn (Jan 13, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> I am not blaming feminisn neither Pathos but I do at least in some way Hypergamy.
> 
> It seems in Japan thanks to technology, men rather than saying like in the majority of cases"Okay, I will play" just said "Doing all that shit so you find me acceptable?  I am not playing"
> 
> I wonder if when virtual reality becomes a reality, will that mean the death of Hypergamy?



Hit the nail on the head. 

I always have a good laugh when I see segments or articles on "news" sites or tv about how millennial women can't find good men to marry. Their standards are ridiculously high. They want Greek gods with bags full of cash and won't settle for less. The problem then becomes that those men can date women 10-20 years younger than they are while the products of our girl power generation are well into their 30s and losing their looks. That is why the percentage of unwed births have skyrocketed.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 13, 2015)

You gotta research the *grass-eater movement *
It started this stuff


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## Orochibuto (Jan 14, 2015)

Vermilion Kn said:


> Hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I always have a good laugh when I see segments or articles on "news" sites or tv about how millennial women can't find good men to marry. Their standards are ridiculously high. They want Greek gods with bags full of cash and won't settle for less. The problem then becomes that those men can date women 10-20 years younger than they are while the products of our girl power generation are well into their 30s and losing their looks. That is why the percentage of unwed births have skyrocketed.



But those 10-20 younger girls also want greek gods 

In fact way more than older women.

Only the super young like 18 (and not always) are more lenient as far as they get into a romance their standards (again not always) are lax. But of course if you date a 18 year old girl and you are older "You are a fucking pervert! "


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 14, 2015)

Vermilion Kn said:


> The problem then becomes that those men can date women 10-20 years younger than they are while the products of our girl power generation are well into their 30s and losing their looks. *That is why the percentage of unwed births have skyrocketed.*



I need to read into that sometime soon


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## Sanity Check (Jan 14, 2015)

Terms like "herbivore men" and "celibacy syndrome" sound like they were invented in an episode of southpark.  That's how you know real science is being done.

!@#% yeah!  Real science!


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jan 14, 2015)

#REHASH man


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## Vermilion Kn (Jan 14, 2015)

> But those 10-20 younger girls also want greek gods



That's the point. 

Wealthy/good looking men are at the top of the food chain. Why would they go for some cat lady in her 30s when they can date/marry hot women in their yearly-mid 20s ?

The women in their 30s won't consider older men either.


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## BashFace (Jan 14, 2015)

Fuck... We really are devolving...


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## Jouten (Jan 14, 2015)

Birth rates in Germany are even lower than in Japan.
And over here people blame it mostly on that people try to be successful in their job and focus too much on their career and that's why they view kids a secondary thougt or plan even beforehand to never have kids because they cost too much and throw them back in their career. I can imagine that it's similar in Japan because they are even more workaholic than germans.


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## ThunderCunt (Jan 14, 2015)

Can't Japanese just order their wives from Russia like everyone else?


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## Deleted member 23 (Jan 14, 2015)

av said:


> Seriously, the average person is destined to fuck a fat bitch. Why even live.


I'd honestly rather kill myself.


Jagger said:


> Zaru did make a good point about this kind of behaviour somewhere in the earlier pages, but you have to understand smart people understand the the time-consuming task that raising a children is, taking time from their jobs, free time, etc. And, obviously, their own ambitions.
> 
> They won't just throw that away for something that is not obligatory unless you're socially pressed to do so.


I saw, but from what I've seen most young adults seem to be more educated but less mature than their counterparts from years ago when their parents raised kids.

They literally compare kids to leeches and parasites, with that kind of mindset, I don't even know how society will move on. They seem to be stuck in a certain age and refuse to move on. Part of me tells me it's because of the child/youth worship.


Orochibuto said:


> It seems in Japan thanks to technology, men rather than saying like in the majority of cases"Okay, I will play" just said "Doing all that shit so you find me acceptable?  I am not playing"



It's quite simple actually, many of them saw the standards, realized that they were COMPLETE bullshit and moved on.

The women should of realized that their standards were high to but vainity and pride live on.


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## Subarashii (Jan 14, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> I am not blaming feminisn neither Pathos but I do at least in some way Hypergamy.
> 
> It seems in Japan thanks to technology, men rather than saying like in the majority of cases"Okay, I will play" just said "Doing all that shit so you find me acceptable?  I am not playing"
> 
> I wonder if when virtual reality becomes a reality, will that mean the death of Hypergamy?


Nope
You're still guna say Aoi-chan is giving into hypergamy when you can't seem to figure out the code to make her love you!

I can see it now...
-Uguuu~~~ Orochi-kuuuunnn baka!
-YOU FUCKING BITCH!



Sanity Check said:


> Terms like "herbivore men" and "celibacy syndrome" sound like they were invented in an episode of southpark.  That's how you know real science is being done.
> 
> !@#% yeah!  Real science!


South Park IS real science 
More real than the drivel being slopped around in here






This is all I can think when I read these responses
[YOUTUBE]QpnvTjtpyIg[/YOUTUBE]




			
				klad said:
			
		

> It's quite simple actually, many of them saw the standards, realized that they were COMPLETE bullshit and moved on.
> 
> The women should of realized that their standards were high to but vainity and pride live on.


Wouldn't there be a GREATER percentage of men who were uninterested in relationships/sex than women if your statement were true?
Why is there a larger number of women who are uninterested in men, romantically?
Could it be that the  system of the Japanese social structure puts the child rearing all
on the woman and the financial burden all on the man?
Maybe BOTH sexes don't want that kind of social weight and have given up.

OMG Both sexes 





Sexual selection works both ways.
Granted, women are generally the gate keepers because they have to bear the physical burden
of carrying a child and they generally want someone who's not a deadbeat and will leave at 
the first sign of trouble.  Ya know, someone who's reliable (for the nuclear family's sake), caring (for the children's sake), physically fit (healthy parents = healthy offspring).

Monetary success has taken the place of reliability and caring because if dad's not around at least they can hire a nanny and live in a safe neighborhood.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 14, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> Nope
> You're still guna say Aoi-chan is giving into hypergamy when you can't seem to figure out the code to make her love you!
> 
> I can see it now...
> ...


You're aren't suppose to figure out how to make someone love you, that's left to that "someone" free will 



Subarashii said:


> South Park IS real science
> More real than the drivel being slopped around in here



Why don't you understand? These things are true.








Subarashii said:


> This is all I can think when I read these responses
> [YOUTUBE]QpnvTjtpyIg[/YOUTUBE]


Some of these responses only show people using common sense in trying to figure out whats happening and why its happening and even coming up with a solution.





Subarashii said:


> Wouldn't there be a GREATER percentage of men who were uninterested in relationships/sex than women if your statement were true?
> Why is there a larger number of women who are uninterested in men, romantically?
> Could it be that the  system of the Japanese social structure puts the child rearing all
> on the woman and the financial burden all on the man?
> ...


 The Women are uninterested because no man can't catch their eye.
They are working so hard, societal expectations would suggest the hard working Woman finds and even harder working man because in Japan, thats expected. 
But, this all started from high expectations placed on Men, then Technology started to drift both sexes apart. Both Sexes don't want that social weight but also the Man has much more to lose anyways.






Subarashii said:


> Sexual selection works both ways.
> Granted, women are generally the gate keepers because they have to bear the physical burden
> of carrying a child and they generally want someone who's not a deadbeat and will leave at
> the first sign of trouble.  Ya know, someone who's reliable (for the nuclear family's sake), caring (for the children's sake), physically fit (healthy parents = healthy offspring).
> ...



Yes, thats another reason why Men aren't interested. They realize that the Women are gatekeepers and that they themselves, "Men" may not match up to the high standards of the Women. There is some self esteem issues here and there but many would rather give up than attempt to continue to try and be judged and discarded for whatever flaw they may have such as the physical aspects to barely making average salary. Japanese are traditional in a sense, maybe if people can have relationships and or get married without having the desire to have a kid, then maybe things can get better. But, everyone is pressured to marry and start a family because Society and government says so


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## Vermin (Jan 14, 2015)

> hey literally compare kids to leeches and parasites


they are though

they leach off your money, housing and love and are parasitic to your own life


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## Pliskin (Jan 14, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> This is all I can think when I read these responses
> [YOUTUBE]QpnvTjtpyIg[/YOUTUBE]
> .



Yes, this is the main impression I get. And some Elliot Rogers vibes mixed in, but hey, anime Forum, wouldn't be complete without the creepiness.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 14, 2015)

Subarashii said:


> Nope
> You're still guna say Aoi-chan is giving into hypergamy when you can't seem to figure out the code to make her love you!
> 
> I can see it now...
> ...



Aoi-chan meets Cheat Engine GG


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## Ippy (Jan 14, 2015)

Have you seen their media?

Nearly all of their stories (anime, manga, and live action tv and movies) center around unrequited love tropes.  They are literally bombarded by the notion that love and romance aren't things that are either desirable or attainable.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 14, 2015)

Laughing Man said:


> Have you seen their media?
> 
> Nearly all of their stories (anime, manga, and live action tv and movies) center around unrequited love tropes.  They are literally bombarded by the notion that love and romance aren't things that are either desirable *or attainable.*



Most likely to do with the bolded part than the non bolded part.


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 14, 2015)

Orochibuto said:


> Most likely to do with the bolded part than the non bolded part.



Agreed


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## walkerandarazu (Jan 15, 2015)

There was a BBC documentary about Japan's population going down:



Some parts are a bit silly due to the interviewer having no knowledge about anime, but there's a bunch of interesting stuff as well.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jan 15, 2015)

Japanese extinction when?


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## Punished Pathos (Jan 15, 2015)

walkerandarazu said:


> There was a BBC documentary about Japan's population going down:
> 
> 
> 
> Some parts are a bit silly due to the interviewer having no knowledge about anime, but there's a bunch of interesting stuff as well.



I've seen that documentary a year ago.
That Interviewer is fucking ignorant as hell.
She really doesn't understand anything.
She should have enough common sense to place herself in their shoes.


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## ImperatorMortis (Jan 15, 2015)

So when the Japanese die out/are unable to sustain their own country who's gonna take over their land mass? 'Murica?


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## Deleted member 23 (Jan 15, 2015)

zyken said:


> they are though
> 
> they leach off your money, housing and love and are parasitic to your own life



that means you were once a parasite to you're own parents.

and that kind of mindset is just unhealthy. I'd rather deal with Toro's pedophillia than that BS


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## ImperatorMortis (Jan 15, 2015)

zyken said:


> they are though
> 
> they leach off your money, housing and love and are parasitic to your own life



loling at your idiocy. Good thing I won't have to worry about you reproducing.


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## Vermin (Jan 15, 2015)

klad said:


> that means you were once a parasite to you're own parents.
> 
> and that kind of mindset is just unhealthy. I'd rather deal with Toro's pedophillia than that BS



she had me at age 21, of course i was a parasite to her

the only thing i was good for was income tax claim 


ImperatorMortis said:


> loling at your idiocy. Good thing I won't have to worry about you reproducing.



prove me wrong then 

what is so good about having children

"because it contributes towards the human race "


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## Zyrax (Jan 15, 2015)

zyken said:


> she had me at age 21, of course i was a parasite to her
> 
> the only thing i was good for was income tax claim
> 
> ...


Fuck the human race, Why should I contribute to a bunch Of morons.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jan 15, 2015)

Gosh, maybe if they stopped being such racial purists with such a shitty quality of living they'd be able to attract immigrants to fill the gaps?

This is actually a really good example of the limits of the "Economics is everything" view of the world.

Since the end of WW2 everyone has been so impressed with Japan's economic performance. They work harder, longer and for less right? But this chronic population drop and fucked up society is the end result of that, of being overworked and badly treated, for having such a strict set of social strictures over so much of your life, of living on such an incredible overpopulated island in such overcrowded and ugly cities. It just happens on a longer time cycle than the quarterly economic reports so all the economics is everything people didn't notice.

Good job guys.


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## Zyrax (Jan 15, 2015)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Gosh, maybe if they stopped being such racial purists with such a shitty quality of living they'd be able to attract immigrants to fill the gaps?
> 
> This is actually a really good example of the limits of the "Economics is everything" view of the world.
> 
> ...


Not everyone is like the western white men who like to have Big Black men Cuckolding them


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## The Pink Ninja (Jan 15, 2015)

While fun that is also not know for it's breeding capacity.


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## Punk Zebra (Jan 16, 2015)

If the Japanese are going to be extinct then how am I going to get my anime.:amazed


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## Jagger (Jan 16, 2015)

They're not completely dissapearing off the Earth's surface. They're smart enough to know some changes need to be made in order to stay relevant.


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## N120 (Jan 17, 2015)

Sasuke_Bateman said:


> Good good, the answer is simple.
> 
> 
> Immigration, can't wait to see more diverse anime



Is the correct answer.


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## PhlegmMaster (Jan 17, 2015)

Well, this isn't exactly new news. This problem has been known (or anticipated) for, what, at least 10 years, but it doesn't look like the Japanese government has tried anything to solve it. Do they think it will just magically solve itself? 

They could start with creating regulations to help women have both a career and a family. Also they could force corporations to not make their employees work more than 50 hours a week, with a norm of 40. They could finance media campaigns to push for a shift in mentality regarding gender and sexual norms. And yes, they could make it at least a little bit easier to become a Japanese citizen.

This (and more) should all have been at least attempted a decade ago. Why hasn't it? Do Japanese politicians WANT their country to go down the drain?


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## Zaru (Jan 17, 2015)

PhlegmMaster said:


> Well, this isn't exactly new news. This problem has been known (or anticipated) for, what, at least 10 years, but it doesn't look like the Japanese government has tried anything to solve it. Do they think it will just magically solve itself?
> 
> They could start with creating regulations to help women have both a career and a family. Also they could force corporations to not make their employees work more than 50 hours a week, with a norm of 40. They could finance media campaigns to push for a shift in mentality regarding gender and sexual norms. And yes, they could make it at least a little bit easier to become a Japanese citizen.
> 
> This (and more) should all have been at least attempted a decade ago. Why hasn't it? Do Japanese politicians WANT their country to go down the drain?



That would be a social engineering project on a massive scale, and few politicians (can afford to) care about solving problems decades after their term (because that's how long it would take to actually take effect)


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## DeathScream (Jan 17, 2015)

ImperatorMortis said:


> So when the Japanese die out/are unable to sustain their own country who's gonna take over their land mass? 'Murica?


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