# Edo Itachi vs Obito Uchiha



## Ersa (Jun 26, 2013)

You knew it was coming 

*Scenario 1*
Base vs Base
*Location*: Alliance vs. Juubi
*Distance*: 20 meters
*Restrictions*: MS, Koto, Rinnegan, Izanagi, Izanami.
*Mindset*: IC
*Knowledge*: Manga

*Scenario 2*
*Location*: Alliance vs. Juubi
*Distance*: 20 meters
*Restrictions*: Koto, Neo Pein, Gedo Mazo.
*Mindset*: IC
*Knowledge*: Full for Itachi, Manga for Obito
- Obito can only use Human Path for Rinnegan (as per manga).
- Itachi starts with a Shadow Clone.

What happens if Obito warps a clone into his dimension?


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## butcher50 (Jun 26, 2013)

Obito is weak and worthless.


Itachi solos.


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## Baroxio (Jun 26, 2013)

You are late to the party bro. Munboy had a , and I gave him a similar answer.



Baroxio said:


> I'm not going to argue portrayal, by all means believe in that if you wish. I will however, argue feats.
> 
> We saw what happened when Obito attempted to go back into Kamui dimension while Kakashi was there. He got bitch-slapped in the face mid-materialization and Kakashi hopped back to the real world with no problem.
> 
> ...



 05-13-2013, 04:52 PM


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## Nikushimi (Jun 26, 2013)

Obito's Izanagi has been restricted?

Well...fuck.

Itachi gets Obito to warp a clone, then shanks or Amaterasus him from the other side.

Good fucking game, Obito.


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## Rocky (Jun 26, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Obito's Izanagi has been restricted?
> 
> Well...fuck.
> 
> ...




You wish Obito was that dumb.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 26, 2013)

Rocky said:


> You wish Obito was that dumb.



Obito IS that dumb. 

Although, given what we saw, it could just as easily end with a mutual stab.

Then Itachi disperses and the real one comes out of hiding unscathed like "."


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## Jagger (Jun 26, 2013)

After lastest chapters, Obito has shown to be that dumb thanks to the plot.


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## Rocky (Jun 26, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Obito's speed and reaction time are nothing special compared to Itachi's, Kamui is not that difficult to exploit for any Kage-level shinobi, and Itachi damn near rapes with Obito's Izanagi restricted.




It required someone faster and stronger than Itachi to utilize perfect timing to "exploit" Kamui, and that was against a teenage version of Tobi.

Not even BM Naruto could do it alone, and he's much faster than Itachi, with clones as well.




> Kakashi had no backup and just plain ran Obito down and shanked him through the torso.




Obito can pass through attacks when not in the dimension that he sends the actual parts to.

Did you stop and realize he wasn't using Kamui at all.


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## Turrin (Jun 26, 2013)

Itachi wins scenario 1 as with the restrictions Obito has no way to take down Itachi due to Edo buffs.

In scenario 2 do to full knowledge given to Itachi and Edo buffs it's really a toss up. Both are just going to be spamming their MS & in Itachi's case Bushin for a long ass time. Eventually it will come down to can Itachi clone feint Obito, getting him to warp a clone, and than quickly attack Obito again getting him to phase into Box realm where the clone will attack him and at least force Izanagi. From there Itachi will need to set up Izanami to counter Izanagi or wait out Izanagi. Ether way all of these actions are going to take quite a-lot of time for Itachi to pull off and that means a-lot of chances for Obito to warp the real Itachi, and if he pulls that of Obito wins. So yeah with full knowledge I favor Itachi a bit, but it's certainly anyone's game to win. So maybe 52/48 odds favoring Edo Itachi.


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## Nikushimi (Jun 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> It required someone faster and stronger than Itachi to utilize perfect timing to "exploit" Kamui, and that was against a teenage version of Tobi.
> 
> Not even BM Naruto could do it alone, and he's much faster than Itachi, with clones as well.



Naruto had the speed to do it; he just never caught Obito in a mutual strike because Obito played defensively with Kamui the entire time.



> Obito can pass through attacks when not in the dimension that he sends the actual parts to.
> 
> Did you stop and realize he wasn't using Kamui at all.



What's stopping Obito from transferring his body parts back to the real world the same way he does every time he goes back there?


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## crisler (Jun 27, 2013)

Once anyone can make this fight a 2:1 , one in kamui dimension and one in real dimension,

Obito is fucked by anyone that is kage level and who has sharingan.

So technically if Obito tries to warp Itachi and it turns out to be a shadow clone then Obito dies very quickly, as the moment he uses kamui the exposed body in the other dimension will be damaged.

Itachi isn't generous like Kakashi who merely punched him instead of using raikiri. Itachi would destroy him from both dimensions.

The thing is whether it's possible to avoid being warped as soon as possible, and seeing as how Itachi loves to use clones and genjutsu I doubt Obito will successfully warp real Itachi away.


However....I wonder why Obito doesn't use rinnegan. can he not fully use it?


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## Rocky (Jun 27, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Naruto had the speed to do it; he just never caught Obito in a mutual strike because Obito played defensively with Kamui the entire time.




Mhm and this is based off what, personal opinion? 




> What's stopping Obito from transferring his body parts back to the real world the same way he does every time he goes back there?




Probably the fucking apocalyptic war going on. 

The Jutsu might not even work that way. It was hinted at when Kakashi came up with an entire plan to get Naruto's clone & Obito alone in box-world, where he _couldn't avoid_.

Or another possibility, Kishi didn't want him to use it. It was obvious that Obito was not utilizing Kamui and you would have to be a fool to miss the fact. With Kamui Obito phases through the efforts of guys like KCM Naruto. 

__________


There's an argument for Edo Itachi as long as all of Obito's Rinnegan shit stays out of the match. Itachi genuinely has the match-up advantage, and he'll never tire. However, all this run down and shank shit, nah nig. Give the man some form of respect, no matter how disappointing he truly is.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Rocky, the reason Obito couldn't phase back to the real world when faced with Naruto's Bunshin was because had he phased back, he would have been inside the Bijuudama and would die.


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## Dr. White (Jun 27, 2013)

So I guess people forgot about Itachi clone feinting Kakashi, and Hebi Sasuke with Sharingan active, and SM Kabuto with enhanced Sage/Uzumaki/Snake sensing. He has proved time and time again that his speed, efficiency, intelligence, genjutsu, and hax is to much for most opponents, and he can easily make openings.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 27, 2013)

butcher50 said:


> Obito is weak and worthless.
> 
> 
> Itachi solos.



Pretty much this.

Obito'd definitely need Izanagi to turn this into an actual battle, which would still end in Itachi's favor due to Izanami.

Obito is a complete joke. 

And with full knowledge, he can't evade Itachi forever given it'll be childs play for Itachi to snuck a bunshin into Obito's Kamui realm.

Itachi wins both scenarios.


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## tanman (Jun 27, 2013)

Obito in base can't really take out an Edo. Mismatch.
If Itachi were alive, I would give Obito the first scenario, though. His katon and genjutsu can keep up with Itachi's. I think his mokuton is also effective enough to tip the scales in such a match. Effective clone use means it'll go to Itachi some of the time.

Itachi and Obito can match each other in most categories when Pain is restricted. Itachi simply faces severe stamina problems when compared to Obito.In the second scenario Itachi is more or less facing the Obito he knew, except this time he has the advantage of being an Edo. Itachi beats Obito by outlasting him. And that's a sentence that I never thought I would say.


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## Baroxio (Jun 27, 2013)

Obito's non Kamui Katon isn't even as big as Itachi's, and Itachi can spit Water Dragons faster than Sage Kabuto can react to. 

Direct comparison, Itachi's Water Dragon > Sage Kabuto's senses > Sasuke's Arrow > Kakashi's senses > Obito's non-Kamui Katon. 

Then we have Obito's Mokuton projectile spikes against Itachi's Kunai and Shuriken rape, and it's pretty obvious that Itachi wins the war of the ninjutsu, and that's not even counting clones. 

Even when Kamui is allowed, Itachi can counter his Kamui Katon with Amaterasu, as he did against Sasuke. Susano also works in that case.

If Tobi tries to warp him, he'll only catch a clone, which surprised Sage Kabuto not once but twice in succession. From there, he can't effectively deal with the Real Itachi outside of Kamui land or the Itachi clone within Kamui land.

His only hope is Izanagi...which Itachi has the one and only counter for in existence, Izanami.

At this point, there really isn't any argument; Itachi > Obito.












...at least, when Obito doesn't use his fucking Rinnengan.


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## Rocky (Jun 27, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Direct comparison, Itachi's Water Dragon > Sage Kabuto's senses > Sasuke's Arrow > Kakashi's senses > Obito's non-Kamui Katon.



What is this. Itachi didn't shoot a water dragon faster than Kabuto could react...he preempted Kabuto's Jutsu with his own using the Sharingan. Re-read the Kakashi & Zabuza fight. 




> If Tobi tries to warp him, he'll only catch a clone, which surprised Sage Kabuto not once but twice in succession. From there, he can't effectively deal with the Real Itachi outside of Kamui land or the Itachi clone within Kamui land.




Yeah Obito isn't Kabuto. He also isn't stupid. He'll make sure that when he goes in for the warp, it's the real Itachi he's getting. Obito is careful with his Kamui usage, and because of this he barley get's hit. It's going to take more than clone Ninjutsu to bypass a defense on that level. Thus is why Naruto & Kakashi applied a risky and complex plan to hit him instead of Kakashi going "lol Ration clone".

Bijuu Mode Naruto is pretty much a better version of Itachi in every way except for perhaps Genjutsu application and certain fields of intelligence, and he couldn't take Tobi on his own.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Yeah Obito isn't Kabuto. He also isn't stupid. He'll make sure that when he goes in for the warp, it's the real Itachi he's getting. Obito is careful with his Kamui usage, and because of this he barley get's hit.



Sorry but these are all baseless claims.

Obito spams Kamui left and right to no avail. So far he was never careful about it. Maybe a little bit after he realized Kakashi & Co found out about its weakness, but even then he phased out immediately after warping Kakashi which resulted him getting his ass beat.
He isn't the "smart" type. He is kind of Narutoish, he is cunning from time to time, but never smart.




> It's going to take more than clone Ninjutsu to bypass a defense on that level. Thus is why Naruto & Kakashi applied a risky and complex plan to hit him instead of Kakashi going "lol Ration clone".
> 
> Bijuu Mode Naruto is pretty much a better version of Itachi in every way except for perhaps Genjutsu application and certain fields of intelligence, and he couldn't take Tobi on his own.



Thats a difference of style. Naruto doesn't have the jutsu execution speed of Itachi, and Kakashi invested on something they previously tried to trick Obito. 

Naruto also doesn't have any jutsu as subtle and as fast as Amaterasu. Itachi has a higher chance of landing a counter attack than Naruto because of that.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

"That's a baseless claim"

Proceeds to make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims on matters of _intelligence_.

As if perception of intelligence is an incredibly objective matter.






LOL.


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## Dr. White (Jun 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> > What is this. Itachi didn't shoot a water dragon faster than Kabuto could react...he preempted Kabuto's Jutsu with his own using the Sharingan. Re-read the Kakashi & Zabuza fight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rocky (Jun 27, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Sorry but these are all baseless claims.
> 
> Obito spams Kamui left and right to no avail. So far he was never careful about it. Maybe a little bit after he realized Kakashi & Co found out about its weakness, but even then he phased out immediately after warping Kakashi which resulted him getting his ass beat.
> He isn't the "smart" type. He is kind of Narutoish, he is cunning from time to time, but never smart.




Subtle.

But yeah, Obito was the grand mastermind of the most dangerous criminal organization in the verse. Comparing him to Naruto is lolzy.




> Thats a difference of style. Naruto doesn't have the jutsu execution speed of Itachi, and Kakashi invested on something they previously tried to trick Obito.




Bijuu Mode Naruto's reflexes are like a kagillion times greater than Itachi's, so it's safe to say his Jutsu execution speed is comfortably superior. 



> Naruto also doesn't have any jutsu as subtle and as fast as Amaterasu. Itachi has a higher chance of landing a counter attack than Naruto because of that.




Amaterasu isn't subtle at all. It required a building up of pressure, and the blood drop is a dead giveaway to the Jutsu's imminent activation. Hebi Sasuke was able to avoid it briefly taking advantage of these things. Obito can teleport, so it will be quite the task to actually maintain focus on him, especially when he has knowledge. 

The body flicker on the other hand is as subtle as it gets. There are no giveaways like the blood drop or the MS activation, nor was any pressure build-up ever noted. Naruto's flicker is faster than Amaterasu. The Raikage's Max-Power flicker was on Amaterasu's speed tier, and Naruto's is faster than that in even his KCM form.




> -Okay I agree BM Naruto is obviously better in the areas besides intelligence/genjutsu, but against someone like Tobi that is what is needed to win the day(besides S/T hax like Minato) as you need to devise a plan of defeating the jutsu Kamui, and have to remain as calm, composed, and analytical to really stand a chance at winning: like Minato. Itachi is more than qualified to outsmart, and clone feint Obito, or even devise a plan in which he can strike Obito down when he gets close. Especially after seeing his performance in categories like speed, and reactions without Kamui vs someone like Kakashi.(not saying Kakashi is weak)




The Kurama side of Naruto gives him sound tactical intelligence, and It still wasn't enough. Without Kamui it seems that yes, Itachi would dispatch him without much effort. But with Kamui, a super team with some very high tier tacticians had to go through hell just to get his mask off. If Obito hadn't danced around Kakashi & Naruto, I might be inclined to agree with you. 

Obito knows that absorbing targets leaves him vulnerable, and he is aware that Itachi is a potent clone user, so get the idea out of your head that it will be cake to get Tobi to suck in a clone. Is it possible? Yes. But in my opinion it isn't likely considering what we've witnesses when Obito actually fought equally good clone users. Minato won by straight up busting Tobi in the back in his tangible interval, which is impossible for anyone slower to replicate. You can't compare it to what Itachi would need to do.

I find Kakashi & Itachi very comparable, and Obito straight up kicked Kakash's ass with his intangibility. You can attribute some of that to fatigue, but still....


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 27, 2013)

Wait, Itachi's feats against Kabuto inside Izanami are fair game now?

Despite the fact that inside Izanami, Kabuto was thoroughly incapable of preventing the same obvious thing that he knew was coming from happening over and over and over again? And then suddenly a completely different thing happened because Itachi felt like it?

Oh, well that's cool.


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## Dr. White (Jun 27, 2013)

Rocky said:


> > The Kurama side of Naruto gives him sound tactical intelligence, and It still wasn't enough. Without Kamui it seems that yes, Itachi would dispatch him without much effort. But with Kamui, a super team with some very high tier tacticians had to go through hell just to get his mask off. If Obito hadn't danced around Kakashi & Naruto, I might be inclined to agree with you.
> 
> 
> Not comparable, Naruto may have a super smart bjuu inside of him but that isn't his thoughts and such require him to conversate, and take in what is being said subsequently taking more time, even if they can talk inside of his mind, at the end of the day it comes down to Naruto's intelligence, and choices on how to go about fighting Tobi. Naruto needed kakashi there for intel purposes which shows that having the best stats doesn't give one the true answer on how to win the fight. Gai was only really needed to fight the bjuu, and also just because Naruto utlized the help from Kakashi and Gai does not mean he needed them. That is flawed logic to use as an absolute.
> ...


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## Rocky (Jun 28, 2013)

Dr. White said:


> Not comparable, Naruto may have a super smart bjuu inside of him but that isn't his thoughts and such require him to conversate, and take in what is being said subsequently taking more time, even if they can talk inside of his mind, at the end of the day it comes down to Naruto's intelligence, and choices on how to go about fighting Tobi. Naruto needed kakashi there for intel purposes which shows that having the best stats doesn't give one the true answer on how to win the fight. Gai was only really needed to fight the bjuu, and also just because Naruto utlized the help from Kakashi and Gai does not mean he needed them. That is flawed logic to use as an absolute.




Reread the Bee vs. Kisame fight. Jinchuriki do not have to stand and brainstorm, if that's what you're even suggesting. Naruto did not need Kakashi for his tactics, he needed Kakashi for his Kamui. It isn't like Naruto even needs Kurama's help to come up with a plan to clone feint Tobi. He's just as good a "feinter" as Itachi is.

And the end part of this suggests you believe Naruto did not require help against Obito. That kind of goes against what we explicitly read during that fight.




> When has this stopped him from using Kamui? He got tagged slighlty by Torune and Fu, both which are fodder compared to Itachi. Itachi is not going down to an insta kamui, and he will have time fight his way through Kamui(hell the guy figured out most of Pains powers in 5 minutes).
> 
> Catching Tobi off guard is a sure fire way of hitting him, we already saw Amaterasu tag him from short when he wasn't expecting it. Through the use of genjutsu(we saw Kakashi was able to have a full on fight with him, and we know Itachi > Kakashi in genjutsu) or clones, Itachi can use an opening to hit him with his best Totsuka or Ama shot.
> 
> Portrayal wise Itachi is one of the few people I see outsmarting Tobi(without Paths or full Rinne access) and ultimately beating him, especially since Itachi is the only person holding the key to countering Izanagi.




Obito wasn't tagged by Torune. I suggest you re-read that fight as well. I know what you're referring to, and in no way can the instance be comparable to Itachi.

Catching anyone off guard is a pretty good way to land a hit. However, it's not that easy to do to a guy that can pass through all attacks. Pretty much all arguments for Itachi are just "clone feint clone feint clone feint!!." Well, the same could apply to Naruto or Kakashi, but neither of them can beat Obito alone either.

Portrayal on it's own has Obito above Itachi by a tier. Itachi is not a top-tier.



> They are pretty much only comparable in intelligence, speed, and use of clones. Other than that Itachi by feats, and portrayal has been samped as atleast a tier or two above. Pt. 1 Kakashi saw defeating Oro as a job only for Hokage and legit feared him: Kishi had Itachi spank Oro in a panel, and was the reason he fleed Akatsuki (and later had him admit inferiority). I don't see Kakashi being able to replace Itachi(edo or not) in his Nagato,or Kabuto fights to be honest. His intelligence pits him up there, but his skillset, jutsu efficiency, and battle insight isn't on Itachi's par IMO.




Kakashi has improved massively since Part 1. Currently, they're very comparable in Base, with Kakashi being more Ninjutsu oriented, and Itachi being more the Genjutsu type. When you factor in the MS, it's classic S/T vs. Standard MS hax. Both good in their own ways.

Kakashi would've done better against Nagato. Provided Kabuto forgets about him just as he did Itachi, Kakashi basically get's a free shot with Kamui on a distracted Nagato from a distance. Good game.

They're skilled in different areas, as I already went over. I don't see how Itachi is "more skilled." They're both efficient, and while Itachi does indeed have better insight, Kakashi has the superior tactical feats.


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## Rosencrantz (Jun 28, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> Wait, Itachi's feats against Kabuto inside Izanami are fair game now?
> 
> Despite the fact that inside Izanami, Kabuto was thoroughly incapable of preventing the same obvious thing that he knew was coming from happening over and over and over again? And then suddenly a completely different thing happened because Itachi felt like it?
> 
> Oh, well that's cool.



FINALLY, someone says this. Why is some suiton being talked about that Itachi used in Izanami? Should we talk about other genjutsu feats and attribute them to Itachi's feats? This is why I hate the double standard on NF. People here are still bitching about Naruto's feats against the Kyuubi and saying how they do not count. Yet these are the same people talking about Itachi's genjutsu feats as real now? Good lord.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Jun 28, 2013)

SubtleObscurantist said:


> "That's a baseless claim"
> 
> Proceeds to make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims on matters of _intelligence_.
> 
> ...





What is unsubstantiated ? 



SubtleObscurantist said:


> Wait, Itachi's feats against Kabuto inside Izanami are fair game now?
> 
> Despite the fact that inside Izanami, Kabuto was thoroughly incapable of preventing the same obvious thing that he knew was coming from happening over and over and over again? And then suddenly a completely different thing happened because Itachi felt like it?
> 
> Oh, well that's cool.



There are certain parts that repeat themselves. Not every bit of the experience.
In two of those repetitions Kabuto counters Sasuke's Katon with his suiton(and they don't happen in the same manner).
In one of them he gets countered by Itachi.







Rocky said:


> Subtle.
> 
> But yeah, Obito was the grand mastermind of the most dangerous criminal organization in the verse. Comparing him to Naruto is lolzy.


He was living on Madara's legacy. Followed his directions.
He had access to Madara's resources and knowledge.

I bet Naruto could have accomplished the same thing, if he could reach Obito's level of maturity.





> Bijuu Mode Naruto's reflexes are like a kagillion times greater than Itachi's, so it's safe to say his Jutsu execution speed is comfortably superior.


I'd like to see evidence for that.




> Amaterasu isn't subtle at all. It required a building up of pressure, and the blood drop is a dead giveaway to the Jutsu's imminent activation. Hebi Sasuke was able to avoid it briefly taking advantage of these things. Obito can teleport, so it will be quite the task to actually maintain focus on him, especially when he has knowledge.


Obito got hit by Amaterasu once, when he was caught off guard.

Obviously If Itachi uses openly Obito has a chance to avoid it, that is why I said "counter attack."

And despite all that, Amaterasu is not comparable to a punch, rasengan or a bijuudama which all scream "danger" from a mile away.



> The body flicker on the other hand is as subtle as it gets. There are no giveaways like the blood drop or the MS activation, nor was any pressure build-up ever noted. Naruto's flicker is faster than Amaterasu. The Raikage's Max-Power flicker was on Amaterasu's speed tier, and Naruto's is faster than that in even his KCM form.


Naruto's flicker isn't faster than Amaterasu.
Amaterasu appears on spot, and after that it moves with the users gaze which Naruto can be faster than. 

Naruto's flicker is overwanked as usual. So far it accomplished nothing offensively, except for the one time he surprise blitzed weakened Kisame.


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## Bkprince33 (Jun 28, 2013)

Rosencrantz said:


> FINALLY, someone says this. Why is some suiton being talked about that Itachi used in Izanami? Should we talk about other genjutsu feats and attribute them to Itachi's feats? This is why I hate the double standard on NF. People here are still bitching about Naruto's feats against the Kyuubi and saying how they do not count. Yet these are the same people talking about Itachi's genjutsu feats as real now? Good lord.



Actually majority of posters use this to hype sm naruto strenght feats.


Logically if he launched a boss summon into the stratosphere it isn't a stretch to say if he tried realy hard he could pick up kurama.


Also izanami is a loop that replicates actual events, so the first set of events that happened Inside the loop are real, it's not a typical genjutsu where you alternate anything, it's just a loop that constantly repeats itself.


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## SubtleObscurantist (Jun 28, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> What is unsubstantiated ?



Every last syllable you utter pertaining to the intelligence of the characters. This is merely you saying "Obito is trash". That is the extent of your proof that Obito isn't smart.


> There are certain parts that repeat themselves. Not every bit of the experience.
> In two of those repetitions Kabuto counters Sasuke's Katon with his suiton(and they don't happen in the same manner).
> In one of them he gets countered by Itachi.



And Kabuto has no control over what happens in any of the examples and becomes locked into doing the same thing over and over while Itachi's genjutsu image was not. 

There is nothing about that feat which follows into the real world. If that had been possible in the real world, it would have been a perfect way to beat Kabuto. So enough with using Izanami feats.


> He was living on Madara's legacy. Followed his directions.
> He had access to Madara's resources and knowledge.
> 
> I bet Naruto could have accomplished the same thing, if he could reach Obito's level of maturity.



Oh, stop standing on abstractions. Living on his legacy doesn't _mean anything _. All his resources, knowledge, and directions wouldn't mean a thing. _A single thing_ if Obito hadn't had the brains necessary to carry out a very precise, but very long term and demanding plan that required all sorts of subtlety. Madara wasn't there. Obito was. Obito was running things. If he hadn't been really damn smart, the plan wouldn't have worked and Madara wouldn't have entrusted it to him. It's _that_ simple. 

You simply are suffering from amnesia ever since we found out that Tobi was Obito. That doesn't change a thing in the world about what he did previously.


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## Rocky (Jun 28, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> He was living on Madara's legacy. Followed his directions.
> He had access to Madara's resources and knowledge.
> I bet Naruto could have accomplished the same thing, if he could reach Obito's level of maturity.




Gonna back this bullshit up?






> I'd like to see evidence for that.




_Sure_.

Though common sense should tell you that having the entirety of the Kyuubi's Chakra amplifying his body increases his reflexes to a point greater than those of any Normal human.




> And despite all that, Amaterasu is not comparable to a punch, rasengan or a bijuudama which all scream "danger" from a mile away.




Please enlighten me to how the body flicker screams danger. 



> Naruto's flicker isn't faster than Amaterasu.
> Amaterasu appears on spot, and after that it moves with the users gaze which Naruto can be faster than.




No it doesn't. We saw Amaterasu "appear" on The Raikage......but then he literally moved out of the way. That is proof enough that the flames did not materialize in his skin. The Raikage's flicker speed is faster than the travel time of Amaterasu, or very close. Naruto's flicker in turn is much faster than that.



> Naruto's flicker is overwanked as usual. So far it accomplished nothing offensively, except for the one time he surprise blitzed weakened Kisame.




You sound salty. We know it's faster than the Raikage's, which already is too much for the Sharingan to follow.


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## Kai (Jun 28, 2013)

Scenario 1: Itachi is probably superior overall in base skill, but Bunshin Daibakuha is his most destructive jutsu in base and it doesn't yield a force anywhere near Minato or KCM Naruto's Rasengans, which Tobi's body has shown to withstand.

The right side of Tobi's body with Hashirama's DNA has even shown healing properties which wouldn't surprise me if Kishimoto had completely forgotten about it, given how he has mishandled the character.



Scenario 2: Itachi hasn't shown the skill and precision to fight Tobi's reflexes with Kamui. Susano'o is completely bypassed and Itachi gets warped. Clones aren't much of an issue if Tobi was getting the better of KCM clones with Kamui.

Itachi has no counter if Tobi emerges from underground (beneath Susano'o) and makes physical contact.


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## Dr. White (Jun 29, 2013)

Rocky said:


> > Reread the Bee vs. Kisame fight. Jinchuriki do not have to stand and brainstorm, if that's what you're even suggesting. Naruto did not need Kakashi for his tactics, he needed Kakashi for his Kamui. It isn't like Naruto even needs Kurama's help to come up with a plan to clone feint Tobi. He's just as good a "feinter" as Itachi is.
> 
> 
> My point is they still have to communicate, when in comparison to Itachi, he just has to think. Kurama is smart, and that helps Naruto, but at the end of the day Itachi is much more intelligent, quicker to think, and efficient with his planning.
> ...


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## Rosencrantz (Jul 1, 2013)

Bkprince33 said:


> Actually majority of posters use this to hype sm naruto strenght feats.
> 
> 
> Logically if he launched a boss summon into the stratosphere it isn't a stretch to say if he tried realy hard he could pick up kurama.
> ...


Some do. There have been MANY that have not. Maybe this perception has changed over the past couple years. I hope so cause that crap was ridiculous. Discrediting feats of a battle lawl.

Of course not. Makes perfect sense.

Not true. The suiton was never part of the loop. While the loop is the overarching aspect, certain things can change as seen with the suiton that Itachi used in the genjutsu world.


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## Dragon Sage Ash (Jul 1, 2013)

]





Rasant said:


> You knew it was coming
> 
> *Scenario 1*
> Base vs Base
> ...



Why restrict their abilities? makes no sense!

Obito can move through susanoo to strike itachi so susanoo is ineffective, amaterasu has already been defeated and other physsical attacks will not work, but genjutsu is a perfect way to attack Obito with his defensive abilities making itachi the worst kind of opponent for Obito...
Meanwhile Itachi has such fast jutsu speed he can create a kage bushin and replace himself with it if obito catches itachi and tries to draw him into his Kamui dimension... Leaving a way for itachi to attack Obito on the other side..

Itachi's Illusion's of the SG coupled with his finger genjutsu will be too much judging by his feats against kakashi and Fuu plus torune,. Plus itach is known for using karasu bushins and kage bushins, who each cna use genjutsu as well and even MS jutsu.
So it comes down to Obito's ability to survive many genjutsu and even tsukuyomi from multiple Clones and itachi. WHich is too Much IMO...

I think Itachi can win by use of clones, genjutsu (SG and finger)/taijutsu combos plus tsukuyomi... If he can avoid being drawn into Kamui dimension.





> *Scenario 2*
> *Location*: Alliance vs. Juubi
> *Distance*: 20 meters
> *Restrictions*: Koto, Neo Pein, Gedo Mazo.
> ...



I think the same Outcome... Itachi will most likely win with Genjutsu/taijutsu combos from multiple clones and tsukuyomi as well if he cna avoid being drawn into the kamui dimension which can be done with his jutsu speed for replacing himself with a Kage bushin.


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## IchLiebe (Jul 1, 2013)

Would Tsukuyomi effect a phased Obito? I actually don't think it would as it would just send his eye into the dimension thus protecting it from the chakra from Itachi.


Also Uchiha Barrier GG Obito can just make multiple barriers in a small space and using that in conjunction with Kamui leads to a badass combo attack.


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