# EoS Ichigo Kurosaki vs EoS Haru Glory



## Imagine (Oct 12, 2017)

Standard rules

No knowledge

Who wins?


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 12, 2017)

Hmm Ichigo should put Haru in trouble  with his increddible  abbilities.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 12, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> abbilities


Wait...that's not right

Seriously now, Haru should take this. Versatility and superior speed should give him the victory over Ichigo and his many Getsugas.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Wait...that's not right



You've seen the boy's abs, haven't you? 

Even considering the fact we don't actually see a fight out of Ichigo at full power (goddammit, Kubo ), we do see that Ichigo's "Intermediary" Tensa Zangetsu was indeed powerful enough to be a threat to Yhwach, even after getting his Hollow and Quincy power taken from him.  

As for EoS, Zangetsu scales to the "Proto-Tensa Zangetsu" that Yhwach broke (perhaps even stronger).


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## Kurou (Oct 12, 2017)

Dry wins


Flawless victory

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You've seen the boy's abs, haven't you?
> 
> Even considering the fact we don't actually see a fight out of Ichigo at full power (goddammit, Kubo ), we do see that Ichigo's "Intermediary" Tensa Zangetsu was indeed powerful enough to be a threat to Yhwach, even after getting his Hollow and Quincy power taken from him.
> 
> As for EoS, Zangetsu scales to the "Proto-Tensa Zangetsu" that Yhwach broke (perhaps even stronger).


Still it can fire only GTs . No variety man


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Still it can fire only GTs . No variety man



It is a pity, but its cutting power is probably like Zaraki's Bankai.  

But if we are using EoS Ichigo, that implies his Hollow and Quincy abilities are in the mix as well, so that means Blut Vene and Gran Rey Cero, at least, are still part of his repertoire.


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## Blade (Oct 12, 2017)

EoS Haru is likely country himself 

but Bitchigo is country level+ and wins with his ink Getsuga

sadly


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is a pity, but its cutting power is probably like Zaraki's Bankai.
> 
> But if we are using EoS Ichigo, that implies his Hollow and Quincy abilities are in the mix as well, so that means Blut Vene and Gran Rey Cero, at least, are still part of his repertoire.


I guess... doesen't help that he never really uses them outside of when they were first  introduced to be part of his skillset.


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## Kurou (Oct 12, 2017)

Blade said:


> EoS Haru is likely country himself
> 
> but Bitchigo is country level+ and wins with his ink Getsuga
> 
> sadly



Wouldnt Runesave and Ravelt fuck over most of the shit he has?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blade (Oct 12, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Wouldnt Runesave and Ravelt fuck over most of the shit he has?



i think Bitchigo has also a speed advantage (superior quad digits than Megido's speed feat even)

although, Haru could fuck his shit up with Runesave in an equal speed scenario


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## bitethedust (Oct 12, 2017)

Haru tries to Runesave seal Ichigo's mind: Turns out there's NOTHING to target and he gets hit by ink splash gg no re

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> I guess... doesen't help that he never really uses them outside of when they were first  introduced to be part of his skillset.



You can say that about the final fight as a whole.  We were shown hints of what Ichigo's new potential was, and then it was all taken away for the rest of the story (the novel implies Ichigo's power came back, but that's no comfort, since Ichigo is likely to have no presence in the novels).


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## Jag77 (Oct 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You can say that about the final fight as a whole.  We were shown hints of what Ichigo's new potential was, and then it was all taken away for the rest of the story (the novel implies Ichigo's power came back, but that's no comfort, since Ichigo is likely to have no presence in the novels).



His powers as in his Quincy and Hollow powers? 

How was this implied? never read them.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

Jag77 said:


> His powers as in his Quincy and Hollow powers?
> 
> How was this implied? never read them.



Something about Urahara voicing concerns that Aizen could manipulate Ichigo's Hollow, though I question whether Ichigo even told anyone he got his Hollow and Quincy powers stolen.  We know he hasn't done well with handling personal failures, especially after the Time-Skip (it is like Kubo changed his entire character).


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## Imagine (Oct 12, 2017)

The overdrive shit is hundreds of teratons, too. Haru is WELL into country level+ like Ichigo is


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## bitethedust (Oct 12, 2017)

If that's the case, Haru seals GT. Ichigo being a Pokemon with only one move proceeds to spam STRUGGLE before being KO'd

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

Imagine said:


> The overdrive shit is hundreds of teratons, too. Haru is WELL into country level+ like Ichigo is



We have confirmation that there was a world-wide earthquake in the Living World (and the other two worlds by relation) when the Soul King died, and it was stated that Ichigo would have been turned into the new Soul King if Yhwach hadn't absorbed the Soul King's power, so Ichigo's base power can equal the Soul King's.

So it may depend on what number we'd get from that.


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## Imagine (Oct 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> We have confirmation that there was a world-wide earthquake in the Living World (and the other two worlds by relation) when the Soul King died, and it was stated that Ichigo would have been turned into the new Soul King if Yhwach hadn't absorbed the Soul King's power, so Ichigo's base power can equal the Soul King's.
> 
> So it may depend on what number we'd get from that.


Yeah, gonna need some new thread discussion for SK/Juha stuff. I can't be fucked to do it myself.


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## egressmadara (Oct 12, 2017)

Was gale/King's planet shaking feat ever calced?


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## Imagine (Oct 12, 2017)

Nah its widely regarded as an outlier.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 12, 2017)

yea Haru said it and what the fuck did he know at that point. he was like 20 feet away from them


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 12, 2017)

Blade said:


> i think Bitchigo has also a speed advantage (superior quad digits than Megido's speed feat even)
> 
> although, Haru could fuck his shit up with Runesave in an equal speed scenario



EoS does not have Runesave, it was sealed away


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## Jag77 (Oct 12, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Something about Urahara voicing concerns that Aizen could manipulate Ichigo's Hollow, though I question whether Ichigo even told anyone he got his Hollow and Quincy powers stolen.  We know he hasn't done well with handling personal failures, especially after the Time-Skip (it is like Kubo changed his entire character).


 
Highly doubt they would write that into the novel while Ichigo has no powers. 

Guess they are back after all, thank god. 
The concept behind Zangetsu hollow being the real Zanpakuto was kinda cool since foreshadowed way back in SS arc.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 12, 2017)

Ichigo recovered his Quincy and Hollow powers in the manga, how else could his kid get them if not. His Hollow and Shinigami powers are one and the same ffs



Right now EoS Ichigo is ??? level aside from powerscalling.


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## Xhominid (Oct 12, 2017)

Jag77 said:


> Highly doubt they would write that into the novel while Ichigo has no powers.
> 
> Guess they are back after all, thank god.
> The concept behind Zangetsu hollow being the real Zanpakuto was kinda cool since foreshadowed way back in SS arc.



There is alot of things the novel finally clarified and it's still ongoing so it's a damn good thing that apparently Kubo is atleast alot better when he isn't drawing stuff to distract him from actually doing plot.

As Catalyst stated, there was a massive earthquake that was between all 3 worlds when Yhwach tried to combine them and there was a massively destroyed area in the World of the Living because of that. As well as the fact Ichigo was going to be the Soul King regardless if he killed Yhwach or not and he was only skipped because Yhwach absorbed the Soul King's power after that so Ichigo is definitely within the Soul King's tier among other things.


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## ho11ow (Oct 12, 2017)

Are Ichigo have any hax aside just raw power and plot armor? He's feel just like Natsu only win by plot


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 12, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Are Ichigo have any hax aside just raw power and plot armor? He's feel just like Natsu only win by plot



He has many different techniques:
-Getsuga Tensho
-Jump + Getsuga Tensho
-Two Getsuga Tenshos
-Getsuga Tensho in the blade of the sword
-Two Getsuga Tenshos in an X
-Faster Getsuga Tensho
-White energy Getsuga Tensho
-Black energy Getsuga Tensho
-One handed Getsuga Tensho
-Two handed Getsuga Tensho
-Wind pressure Getsuga Tensho
-Runing + Getsuga Tensho
-Runing faster + Getsuga Tensho
etc.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 11


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## ho11ow (Oct 12, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> He has many different techniques:
> -Getsuga Tensho
> -Jump + Getsuga Tensho
> -Two Getsuga Tenshos
> ...


You forget "Final Getsuga Tenso"

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 12, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> You forget "Final Getsuga Tenso"



FGT Ichigo can pimp-slap space-time distorting Kido! 

Speaking of which, how do we scale or calc that for Kurohitsugi?  When we saw it used successfully and at full power the third time, Aizen confirmed that Kurohitsugi's intense reiatsu created a gravity that cracked Yhwach's veil over the Soul Society, implying that what he said about "a gravity so intense that it distorts space-time" is factual, rather than hyperbole, even outside the interior of it.


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## Kurou (Oct 12, 2017)

Oh


My

God


You


Fucking


Nerds

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 2


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## Kurou (Oct 12, 2017)

And who tf still uses ""

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Xhominid (Oct 13, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Oh
> 
> 
> My
> ...



Says the fucker with the Ayame from Tenchu avatar...


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## Kurou (Oct 13, 2017)

Im not over here gushing about ink spills bad writing and oh muh gurd pwr lvls

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Xhominid (Oct 13, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Im not over here gushing about ink spills bad writing and oh muh gurd pwr lvls



Gushing over what now?


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

Jag77 said:


> His powers as in his Quincy and Hollow powers?
> 
> How was this implied? never read them.


Is stated any stolen power from Yhwach would return eventually aside from Vollstandig.


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Are Ichigo have any hax aside just raw power and plot armor? *He's feel just like Natsu *only win by plot


Don't.


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## Jikuu (Oct 13, 2017)

Haru by quality, & strengh


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## Keishin (Oct 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> FGT Ichigo can pimp-slap space-time distorting Kido!
> 
> Speaking of which, how do we scale or calc that for Kurohitsugi?  When we saw it used successfully and at full power the third time, Aizen confirmed that Kurohitsugi's intense reiatsu created a gravity that cracked Yhwach's veil over the Soul Society, implying that what he said about "a gravity so intense that it distorts space-time" is factual, rather than hyperbole, even outside the interior of it.


The only way to really calc kurohitsugi is to know the gravity it takes to vaporize the buildings and mini soul kings.


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## Jag77 (Oct 13, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> Are Ichigo have any hax aside just raw power and plot armor? He's feel just like Natsu only win by plot



I don't even like Bleach and can fully vouch that its hundreds of times less painful than Fairy Fail and Ichigo is far more tame than anything Natsu In Drag Neel ever pulled out of his ass. 

Anyways Ichigo and Kenpachi abuse reaitsu crush so damn much that you could consider that a hax defense. 
And Ichigo also possesses the Blut abilities, which is pretty much Bleach's version of Armament Haki.


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## Sablés (Oct 13, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Yeah, gonna need some new thread discussion for SK/Juha stuff. I can't be fucked to do it myself.


Catalyst means this, for whatever they're worth.


> The lengthy earthquake.
> 
> This had occurred because of the fact that during the course of the war between the Shinigami and the Quincies, the Soul King had perished and as a result the boundaries between Soul Society, the Human World and Hueco Mundo began to collapse.
> 
> ...





> He answered his companion’s query by checking to see if Kyōraku’s line of sight was not on himself but at the center of the space where the holy soldiers were working.
> 
> “You already understand. The soul King is neither new or old. It is significant that what we call Soul King can continue to exist here”
> 
> ...


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The only way to really calc kurohitsugi is to know the gravity it takes to vaporize the buildings and mini soul kings.


200 billion G give or take. I didn't really calc it I just read somewhere that the surface gravity of a neutron star is capable of crushing a supertanker full of oil into a cube millimeter and use that as reference. Aizen did erase a cityblock worth of material iirc. Another forum provided that info actually


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## Imagine (Oct 13, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Catalyst means this, for whatever they're worth.


Dafuq is this from a Novel?


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Dafuq is this from a Novel?



Yes, the novel in question being "Cannot Fear Your Own World".


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## Keishin (Oct 13, 2017)

Wasn't Madaras meteor petatons for couple of quakes


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## Imagine (Oct 13, 2017)

It was downgraded to teratons


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## Imagine (Oct 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Yes, the novel in question being "Cannot Fear Your Own World".


Is it canon? I remember there being a novel where Kenpachi casually wrecked both Barraggan and Starrk


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## Sablés (Oct 13, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Dafuq is this from a Novel?


Yeah, takes place right after Juicebox got axed

Kubo's supervising it


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> 200 billion G give or take. I didn't really calc it I just read somewhere that the surface gravity of a neutron star is capable of crushing a supertanker full of oil into a cube millimeter and use that as reference. Aizen did erase a cityblock worth of material iirc. Another forum provided that info actually



Hm, I was just about to share a video that talks about a Neutron Star.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

And to think that neither Aizen nor his chair suffered any damage. AND he was mostly sealed


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## Xhominid (Oct 13, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Is it canon? I remember there being a novel where Kenpachi casually wrecked both Barraggan and Starrk



Yes as Sables said, it's canon unlike Narita's other work because Kubo is supervising it very thoroughly unlike the last one.



Catalyst75 said:


> Hm, I was just about to share a video that talks about a Neutron Star.



I would honestly believe it because even at Kurohitsugi's weakest, it still seemed like something that crushed things considering how it did it's damage against Komomura. Even taking away Aizen's purple prose about how strong it's crushing power is...
When he used at the final arc, it definitely seemed to do exactly as he described which means it's crushing power is immense as hell regardless.


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

That shit is not for real right?


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Yes as Sables said, it's canon unlike Narita's other work because Kubo is supervising it very thoroughly unlike the last one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are making references though.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> And to think that neither Aizen nor his chair suffered any damage. AND he was mostly sealed



While Yhwach was able to obliterate said chair, take off Aizen's arm, and blow a hole through his body when they fought.



Xhominid said:


> Yes as Sables said, it's canon unlike Narita's other work because Kubo is supervising it very thoroughly unlike the last one.



Roca pops up in "Cannot Fear Your Own World", and she's from "Spirits Are Forever With You".



Xhominid said:


> I would honestly believe it because even at Kurohitsugi's weakest, it still seemed like something that crushed things considering how it did it's damage against Komomura. Even taking away Aizen's purple prose about how strong it's crushing power is...
> When he used at the final arc, it definitely seemed to do exactly as he described which means it's crushing power is immense as hell regardless.



And keep in mind Kurohitsugi is #90 among the Hado, which potentially scales up the power of the nine spells above it (I don't know about equivalent level Bakudo spells, since we only ever saw the one above #90, and that was the strongest Bakudo spell.

On the other hand, Danku can block any Kido-type attack up to #89.


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> While Yhwach was able to obliterate said chair, take off Aizen's arm, and blow a hole through his body when they fought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well. Seireitei had 200+ ri in radios in Fade to Black.


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## Xhominid (Oct 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> While Yhwach was able to obliterate said chair, take off Aizen's arm, and blow a hole through his body when they fought.



Which really shows just how stupid strong Yhwach has become...and also just how ridiculously powerful Ichigo has become to even be able to stand up to Yhwach.



Catalyst75 said:


> Roca pops up in "Cannot Fear Your Own World", and she's from "Spirits Are Forever With You".



I should have meant Kenpachi's novel rather than all novels(Harribel's as well as the Tres Bestia's fate was mentioned in another novel and such).



Catalyst75 said:


> And keep in mind Kurohitsugi is #90 among the Hado, which potentially scales up the power of the nine spells above it (I don't know about equivalent level Bakudo spells, since we only ever saw the one above #90, and that was the strongest Bakudo spell.
> 
> On the other hand, Danku can block any Kido-type attack up to #89.



Yeah, which in the end shows just how insanely powerful the Top Tier Hadou spells can become.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

Divell said:


> Well. Seireitei had 200+ ri in radios in Fade to Black.


Surely taken from Yoruichi's quoted 10-day walk from gate to gate


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## Blade (Oct 13, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Catalyst means this, for whatever they're worth.



> Clorox novel

sounds like ink+ levels

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> I should have meant Kenpachi's novel rather than all novels(Harribel's as well as the Tres Bestia's fate was mentioned in another novel and such).



_Spirits Are Forever With You_ is the "Kenpachi novel".


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## Alita (Oct 13, 2017)

Haru has at least comparable speed and is country+ level to a bit of a higher degree than ichigo so he should win imo.


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## Keishin (Oct 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Surely taken from Yoruichi's quoted 10-day walk from gate to gate


The anime overplays everything about Bleach, if the final arc was animated Gremmy's meteor would shake hueco mundo. In the 4th movie H2 Ichigo blew up multiple dimensions. Kubo only creates some sketches for them from what I know, he actually did the dimensions to hell too.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Keishin said:


> n the 4th movie H2 Ichigo blew up multiple dimensions. Kubo only creates some sketches for them from what I know, he actually did the dimensions to hell too.



Those are just levels to the one dimension.

That said, Hollow Ichigo's Cero caused a massive enough explosion to course up from the Fourth Level, through all the others, and then blast a hole through the Hell Gate.  Given its anime-exclusive depiction, I never took this Hell to be its canonical appearance, especially with the Kushanda not lining up with the silhouette of an entity of Hell that we *did *see.


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## Keishin (Oct 13, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Those are just levels to the one dimension.
> 
> That said, Hollow Ichigo's Cero caused a massive enough explosion to course up from the Fourth Level, through all the others, and then blast a hole through the Hell Gate.  Given its anime-exclusive depiction, I never took this Hell to be its canonical appearance, especially with the Kushanda not lining up with the silhouette of an entity of Hell that we *did *see.


I'm not sure why you think they're just one dimension it's not like Las Noches, it's like going from RR to Seireitei to Muken...
Also didn't we see Hell in the special chapter for the movie with Szayelaporro?


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The anime overplays everything about Bleach,


Yoruichi's statement is from the manga though. It would mean that Seireitei's radius is just over 750 km. A lot higher than the movie's supposedly overplayed size.



> if the final arc was animated Gremmy's meteor would shake hueco mundo.


That wouldn't even make any sense.



> In the 4th movie H2 Ichigo blew up multiple dimensions.


It only went through the different layers of Hell, which as far as we can see is not half as big as Las Noches' stated size. Post skip Ichigo destroyed an actual dimension at least the size of Karakura just by going Bankai



> Kubo only creates some sketches for them from what I know, he actually did the dimensions to hell too.


Yeah but he personally wrote Yoruichi's statement in the canon-most plot.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

Keishin said:


> I'm not sure why you think they're just one dimension it's not like Las Noches, it's like going from RR to Seireitei to Muken...
> Also didn't we see Hell in the special chapter for the movie with Szayelaporro?



Yes, and it was confirmed that Szayel is indeed in Hell, but most of the movies do not line up with the manga.  The only one I know of which potentially fits into the manga timeline is "Memories of Nobody", because Ichigo recollected going to the Valley of Screams, out of the blue, in the Final Arc.


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## ho11ow (Oct 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> *200 billion G* give or take. I didn't really calc it I just read somewhere that the surface gravity of a neutron star is capable of crushing a supertanker full of oil into a cube millimeter and use that as reference. Aizen did erase a cityblock worth of material iirc. Another forum provided that info actually




And to think Komamura survive "that" in early series is just..


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> And to think Komamura survive "that" in early series is just..


Not only does Aizen say that it did not reach even a third of it's full potential, but he did it without the chant, only as a Shinigami.

The latest one iirc is > the one against Dangai Ichigo, which was performed by Aizen in the 2nd form of the Hogyoku with the full chant. The differences are "loldimensions" apart


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## ho11ow (Oct 13, 2017)

"third of it's full potential"
Still, if we assume the gravity increase is linier that mean Komamura survive more than 66,000,000,000 G


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## BackwoodSlav (Oct 13, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> EoS does not have Runesave, it was sealed away


Are you talking about that time when Lucia sealed it when Endless made his first appearance? Because I'm pretty sure that seal was broken when Haru destroyed the (first) Dark Decaforce. At the very least it was stated that Haru can still use all 10 forms when he received Ravelt, and no new seal was added afterwards.



bitethedust said:


> If that's the case, Haru seals GT. Ichigo being a Pokemon with only one move proceeds to spam STRUGGLE before being KO'd





Catalyst75 said:


> We have confirmation that there was a world-wide earthquake in the Living World (and the other two worlds by relation) when the Soul King died, and it was stated that Ichigo would have been turned into the new Soul King if Yhwach hadn't absorbed the Soul King's power, so Ichigo's base power can equal the Soul King's.





Xhominid said:


> As Catalyst stated, there was a massive earthquake that was between all 3 worlds when Yhwach tried to combine them and there was a massively destroyed area in the World of the Living because of that. As well as the fact Ichigo was going to be the Soul King regardless if he killed Yhwach or not and he was only skipped because Yhwach absorbed the Soul King's power after that so Ichigo is definitely within the Soul King's tier among other things.


Even if Haru were to be at lower country-level range than Ichigo or the latter got scaled to that global quake, Runesave should still be able to deal with Zangetsu. A random anti-magic bracelet made of inferior materials compared to Ravelt (it was casually broken by Musica's claimer abilities, and that very same Musica literally almost died trying to forge Haru's new sword) that had no real hype or anything else special attached to it was able to seal away EoS Elie's Etherion, which means that Runesave should be able to do the same. And Etherion is easily a magic of planetary threat range that can mess up the entire timeline.

The only real problem here is speed. If Ichigo is indeed significantly faster than Haru, then he should be able to blitz and mess his opponent up. That said, I don't really follow Bleach calcs, so I wouldn't know what he gets scaled to....


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## Keishin (Oct 13, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> "third of it's full potential"
> Still, if we assume the gravity increase is linier that mean Komamura survive more than 66,000,000,000 G


 That first one is similar to Cero Oscuras, it one-shots the opponent but you don't expect them to just get vaporized because it's shounen...


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> "third of it's full potential"
> Still, if we assume the gravity increase is linier that mean Komamura survive more than 66,000,000,000 G


"*Not even* a third" of the full potential that Aizen would have achieved under normal circumstances as a Shinigami. Not a third of what Aizen achieved after a million unorthodox power ups


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## Source of Hate (Oct 13, 2017)

Keishin said:


> That first one is similar to Cero Oscuras, it one-shots the opponent but you don't expect them to just get vaporized because it's shounen...


I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I mean, just like any other Shonen, it depends on the durability of the target


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## Divell (Oct 13, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Surely taken from Yoruichi's quoted 10-day walk from gate to gate


Nope. Direct number.


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## LazyWaka (Oct 13, 2017)

Why do people keep talking about fade to black? I thought it was a concept from memories of a nobody that was referenced.

Or did something else eventually reference fade to black as well?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 13, 2017)

Blackwoodslav, no, it has not appeared since then, that would imply that it remained sealed then


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Why do people keep talking about fade to black? I thought it was a concept from memories of a nobody that was referenced.Or did something else eventually reference fade to black as well?



Valley of Screams came from "Memories of Nobody".  

"Fade to Black" was mentioned because of the 200 _ri_ statement for the expanse of Seireitei which Mayuri's out-of-control experiment covered, which in part corresponds to the 10 day walk from gate to gate made by Yoruichi in the Soul Society arc (Divell is the one who brought it up).

I recall blogs I made that scaled the Seireitei's size (and later Gremmy's meteor) by the 10-day statement.


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## LazyWaka (Oct 13, 2017)

I get that, but whether it matches up with Yuroichui's statement or not why does the movie keep getting mentioned if its not canon?


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 13, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> I get that, but whether it matches up with Yuroichui's statement or not why does the movie keep getting mentioned if its not canon?



The idea of consistency on the size of a canoncial location, I presume.


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## Regicide (Oct 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> "Fade to Black" was mentioned because of the 200 _ri_ statement for the expanse of Seireitei which Mayuri's out-of-control experiment covered


From what I recall of the film, I'm like, 95% sure that the line in question doesn't actually mention ri's as a unit of measurement

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Nope. Direct number.


The statement Yoruichi gave is pretty much a direct number. Average walking speed times 40 days gives you nearly the exact same distance Fade to Black gave again. The only thing that contradicts Yoruichi's statement is the ever dynamic representation of Seireitei's aerial view that ranges from cityblock to city size in the manga. But anyone with a working eye knows that Seireitei is not the size it has been shallowly drawn as, even without the statement.


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## Xhominid (Oct 14, 2017)

ho11ow said:


> "third of it's full potential"
> Still, if we assume the gravity increase is linier that mean Komamura survive more than 66,000,000,000 G



Considering Komamura has shaken off far worse...I honestly believe that since he's one of the tankiest Captains next to Kenpachi.


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 14, 2017)

Regicide said:


> From what I recall of the film, I'm like, 95% sure that the line in question doesn't actually mention ri's as a unit of measurement
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though



The subs did, dub has spirit miles.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Why do people keep talking about fade to black? I thought it was a concept from memories of a nobody that was referenced.
> 
> Or did something else eventually reference fade to black as well?


No. But it was also supervised by Kubo very deeply.


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## shade0180 (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Kubo very deeply.



How do you guys know this?

are you watching Kubo as he was supervising the author?

 I could agree if you are just stating he was supervising the current writer, and I'm pretty sure it is still entirely on the new writers digression to follow up on Kubo's ideas or to add his own.

But to tell us that Kubo was going beyond that then you need to provide proof.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 14, 2017)

Regicide said:


> From what I recall of the film, I'm like, 95% sure that the line in question doesn't actually mention ri's as a unit of measurement



_Ri_ is a Japanese measurement of distance.  1 _ri _radius was also mentioned as the size of the Jureichi (IIRC), which Karakura Town sits on top of, making the town's size at least 2 _ri _in diameter.

The modern definition is fixed at 3.93 kilometers, so Karakura Town is at least 7.96 km in diameter.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Regicide said:


> From what I recall of the film, I'm like, 95% sure that the line in question doesn't actually mention ri's as a unit of measurement
> 
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though


In Netflix it sayd 200 miles, east to west direction and that covers over one third of the Seireitei. It would give us over 400 miles in Diameter at least.



Source of Hate said:


> The statement Yoruichi gave is pretty much a direct number. Average walking speed times 40 days gives you nearly the exact same distance Fade to Black gave again. The only thing that contradicts Yoruichi's statement is the ever dynamic representation of Seireitei's aerial view that ranges from cityblock to city size in the manga. But anyone with a working eye knows that Seireitei is not the size it has been shallowly drawn as, even without the statement.


No. Average walking speed of human is 3.1 miles/h, give that times 24 and you get 74.4. Multiply by 40 and you get 947.3 miles in diameter. And if using only half a day is 473.65, neither actually give you the "exact measure" from the movie.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

How do you even convert G force in to Joules?


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> How do you even convert G force in to Joules?



For the acceleration per second squared you'd get from 200,000,000,000 G, that's acceleration of 2,000 km/s^2

But I don't think you can convert G-Force directly to Joules.


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> For the acceleration per second squared you'd get from 200,000,000,000 G, that's acceleration of 2,000 km/s^2
> 
> But I don't think you can convert G-Force directly to Joules.


So is that how fast the oil tanker would collapse? 
If so the energy to do that is about Town level


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 14, 2017)

Esano said:


> So is that how fast the oil tanker would collapse?
> If so the energy to do that is about Town level



Well, there is also gram-force and kilogram-force as potential methods of calculation to consider.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 14, 2017)

That said, gravity is a product of the curvature in space-time caused by mass and energy, and a strong enough electromagnetic force can produce gravity.

So calcing Kurohitsugi may depend on how we interpret its effects, and how it achieves them.


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Well, there is also gram-force and kilogram-force as potential methods of calculation to consider.


Yeah I was just doing the simplest thing, converting it in other ways can be done.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. Average walking speed of human is 3.1 miles/h, give that times 24 and you get 74.4. Multiply by 40 and you get 947.3 miles in diameter.


Yeah man and Fade to Black says the diameter is 400 Reiri. A Reiri being 2.4 miles, it translates to 960 miles total. Pretty damn close



> And if using only half a day is 473.65, neither actually give you the "exact measure" from the movie.


I said *nearly*. And no half day


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## Sablés (Oct 14, 2017)

Why is a non-canon movie being brought up again?


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Why is a non-canon movie being brought up again?


Because it has canon info


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Because it has canon info


Yeah, no it doesen't work like that. You can't cherry pick shit from the movie as being cannon just because you want to upgrade your verse. The movie is either cannon or it isn't. Fade to Crap isn't. If it doesen't appear in the manga in doesen't count no matter "how close" Kubo supervised it.A lot of anime movies are supervised by mangakas.
Hell, let's take an example. Rumiko Takahashi superviesd and actually drew  characters for movie 3 of Inuyasha. Now, are you seeing me trying to push planet lvl Inuyasha because there was something in there that could have fucked the planet ? No, because shit is still not cannon. It's secondary cannon at most but we still don't take it into account.


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## Keishin (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I mean, just like any other Shonen, it depends on the durability of the target


And their durability was bypassed...


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Yeah man and Fade to Black says the diameter is 400 Reiri. A Reiri being 2.4 miles, it translates to 960 miles total. Pretty damn close
> 
> I said *nearly*. And no half day


Well at least is consistent.



reyatsuguy said:


> Yeah, no it doesen't work like that. You can't cherry pick shit from the movie as being cannon just because you want to upgrade your verse. The movie is either cannon or it isn't. Fade to Crap isn't. If it doesen't appear in the manga in doesen't count no matter "how close" Kubo supervised it.A lot of anime movies are supervised by mangakas.
> Hell, let's take an example. Rumiko Takahashi superviesd and actually drew  characters for movie 3 of Inuyasha. Now, are you seeing me trying to push planet lvl Inuyasha because there was something in there that could have fucked the planet ? No, because shit is still not cannon. It's secondary cannon at most but we still don't take it into account.


We are not using a feat. We are using the given dimensions consistent with a canon location, from a movie supervised by Kubo. Is nowhere near the same.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Well at least is consistent.
> 
> 
> We are not using a feat. We are using the given dimensions consistent with a canon location, from a movie supervised by Kubo. Is nowhere near the same.


Again, that's cherry picking. A movie and everything in it has to be cannon so that we can extract information from it. There's no difference between a feat or  a information as long as its source isn't cannon. If that number or whatever the fuck never appeared in the manga than it's not cannon. It may be secondary cannon , but we don't care for it so....
It's just a forum rule.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> For the acceleration per second squared you'd get from 200,000,000,000 G, that's acceleration of 2,000 km/s^2
> 
> But I don't think you can convert G-Force directly to Joules.


So on Ichigo and Aizen? There is no way we can really quantify that?


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Again, that's cherry picking. A movie and everything in it has to be cannon so that we can extract information from it. There's no difference between a feat or  a information as long as its source isn't cannon. If that number or whatever the fuck never appeared in the manga than it's not cannon. It may be secondary cannon , but we don't care for it so....
> It's just a forum rule.


I get that. But this is a secondary canon providing a real number consistent with the primary canon. Not simply given to us out of the blue.


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## shade0180 (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> secondary canon providing a real number consistent with the primary canon


how is it consistent if one of them don't exist in canon.

seriously size of the place =/= that place.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> how is it consistent if one of them don't exist in canon.
> 
> seriously size of the place =/= that place.





Divell said:


> In Netflix it sayd 200 miles, east to west direction and that covers over one third of the Seireitei. It would give us over 400 miles in Diameter at least.
> 
> 
> Average walking speed of human is 3.1 miles/h, give that times 24 and you get 74.4. Multiply by 40 and you get 947.3 miles in diameter. And if using only half a day is 473.65.



Is pretty much a method to back up the 10 days walk between door.


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Always so much contention over the size of las noches and seretei.
Texas sized Lanza will live forever


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> That said, gravity is a product of the curvature in space-time caused by mass and energy, and a strong enough electromagnetic force can produce gravity.
> 
> So calcing Kurohitsugi may depend on how we interpret its effects, and how it achieves them.


Well. The normal power is a black box with multiple swords and spears. After Aizen power ups it is so powerful it creates the stated gravity. 

That's pretty much what Aizen said.


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## shade0180 (Oct 14, 2017)

> Average walking speed of human is 3.1 miles/h, give that times 24 and you get 74.4. Multiply by 40 and you get 947.3 miles in diameter. And if using only half a day is 473.65.



Where did 40 came from?


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## Juan (Oct 14, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Where did 40 came from?


10 days to a gate, four gates.


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## Keishin (Oct 14, 2017)

Esano said:


> Always so much contention over the size of las noches and seretei.
> Texas sized Lanza will live forever


Well I'm pretty sure it is a bit bigger than what the worm calc gives it. Atleast a couple of miles to the top with the pillars and maybe with desgarron.
Then again I'm not even sure what calc is being used for it.


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Where did 40 came from?


40 days around


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Well I'm pretty sure it is a bit bigger than what the worm calc gives it. Atleast a couple of miles to the top with the pillars and maybe with desgarron.
> Then again I'm not even sure what calc is being used for it.


The 3 days is taken out of context, though.


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## Keishin (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> The 3 days is taken out of context, though.


Doesn't change what I said... 
1. Grimmjow is far in the air, raises Desgarron towards the sky and it doesn't reach...
2. He attacks Ichigo with one arm Desgarron and it doesn't even reach the top of the building Orihime is on until it's thrown...

*Spoiler*: __ 








That happened in the middle of nowhere in LN and after this fight it took Ichigo ages to rush to the center of Las Noches.


And when Ichigo reached the center he fought Ulquoirra in a room in one of the five pillars that are in the center of Las Noches.

*Spoiler*: __ 









Las Noches is large building sized to you still? Time to wake up lol


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## LazyWaka (Oct 14, 2017)

Pretty sure even the lowest calcs for Los noches are well above "large building size". Unless Several kilometer buildings are a thing now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Haru with his new upgrade, just goes Ravelt + Runesave combo up his ink ass

Bitchigo's country+ inktsuga gets useless, again

discussing for a hopeless upgrade from a clorox novel is so cringe


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

He wouldn't even need those for the ink spills


Million suns does just fine


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> He wouldn't even need those for the ink spills
> 
> 
> Million suns does just fine



 Silfarion + Blue Crimson is another option


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Well at least is consistent.


Exactly




Divell said:


> The 3 days is taken out of context, though.


Whatta ya mean?



shade0180 said:


> how is it consistent if one of them don't exist in canon.
> 
> 
> seriously size of the place =/= that place.


Both provide a number that comes very close. Yoruichi's statement is canon. We're only showing that even the movie is supporting said canon info of a canon location. A location that is subject to ravenous debate here lol.


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> Silfarion + Blue Crimson is another option


Melforce+ Explosion

Death Ballad Bombs for days


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Melforce+ Explosion
> 
> Death Ballad Bombs for days



this thread should had Lucia instead

Bitchigo getting a hint why the Raregroove's are the Hanma's of the RAVE verse

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> this thread should had Lucia instead
> 
> Bitchigo getting a hint why the Raregroove's are the Hanma's of the RAVE verse




He'd turn ichigo into a tree and then piss on him

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> He'd turn ichigo into a tree and then piss on him



so

Lucia would turn Bitchigo into Jegan and then piss on his sorry ink ass

got it

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> so
> 
> Lucia would turn Bitchigo into Jegan and then piss on his sorry ink ass
> 
> got it




Piss is good for removing stains I hear


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Piss is good for removing stains I hear



it removes the unnecessary Stains of Time


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

also

if it's just an One Piss, not big deal


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> The 3 days is taken out of context, though.


Can you explain?


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## Blade (Oct 14, 2017)

Esano said:


> Can you explain?



how pissing on someone works?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Doesn't change what I said...
> 1. Grimmjow is far in the air, raises Desgarron towards the sky and it doesn't reach...
> 2. He attacks Ichigo with one arm Desgarron and it doesn't even reach the top of the building Orihime is on until it's thrown...
> 
> ...


No. I'm talking that Nel. People saying her 3 days using it for diameter and shit.


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Blade said:


> how pissing on someone works?


No I already know that.


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## Esano (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. I'm talking that Nel. People saying her 3 days using it for diameter and shit.


How is that taken out of context?


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. I'm talking that Nel. People saying her 3 days using it for diameter and shit.


Nel says the gate is 3 days to the direction she points at on the wall. When she says that they are standing close to the corner, and the gate is in the middle. And Las Noches is a square, so if it takes 40 days to walk a lap around Seireitei, then it takes 24 days to walk one around Las Noches as far as statements go


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## BackwoodSlav (Oct 14, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Blackwoodslav, no, it has not appeared since then, that would imply that it remained sealed then


While I admit that I'm not sure whether Haru actually used it after that incident or not (should probably re-read the manga again), Haru got an entirely new sword to replace TCM before the final battle, at which point older Musica states that he can still use all 10 forms even with the new sword. A statement which Haru doesn't deny. Even if the author seemingly forgot about the Runesave, it doesn't get much clearer than this. TLDR, EoS Haru has access to all the swords.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

What's the deal Runesave, that it seals Getsugas? It ain't really a big game changer to Haru's favor. Actually if Ichigo decides to infuse a GT in his swing and Haru attempts to seal it, he's going to get split


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Esano said:


> How is that taken out of context?





Source of Hate said:


> Nel says the gate is 3 days to the direction she points at on the wall. When she says that they are standing close to the corner, and the gate is in the middle. And Las Noches is a square, so if it takes 40 days to walk a lap around Seireitei, then it takes 24 days to walk one around Las Noches as far as statements go


 
Nel is pointing out to the dessert, s she most likely means the doors where Ichigo and his group emerged from. Which is what i mean by being taken out of context. You can't use it for diameter.


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> What's the deal Runesave, that it seals Getsugas? It ain't really a big game changer to Haru's favor. Actually if Ichigo decides to infuse a GT in his swing and Haru attempts to seal it, he's going to get split




No

Runesave cuts what can't be cut. Magic, elements and even peoples minds/memories ect


It also has the capacity to seal, like it did with Etherion which is far stronger than anything in bleach


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Also as omgman seems to forget

even if Lucia sealed it during their fight Haru broke the decalogue right afterward so it wouldn't still be sealed. Not that it matters Ravelts even more powerful


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Nel is pointing out to the dessert, s she most likely means the doors where Ichigo and his group emerged from. Which is what i mean by being taken out of context. You can't use it for diameter.


Look she is pointing to Ichigo's left. If it were the gate where Ichigo's group emerged from then that would mean that the distance they traveled was a 3 day walk, so Ichigo Chad and Uryu were stricken at the size by watching it from 360 km away which would make it ridiculously large since even at that distance they still had to look slightly up to see the roof. There's even a panel drawn from the perspective of their eyesight. At the very least, the height would be easily over 100km based on that. But at the time Hollow Ichigo shot the Cero downwards on Ulquiorra, a panel can be seen where the shockwave is rushing out of the gate, which is at the center of the wall.

You have to see past the damn text blocking the view.
 Btw diameters are for circles


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> No
> 
> Runesave cuts what can't be cut. Magic, elements and *even peoples minds/memories ect*


Is that something that happened or are you assuming that it can?




> It also has the capacity to seal, like it did with Etherion which is far stronger than anything in bleach


That is up for debate


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## Kurou (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Is that something that happened or are you assuming that it can?


Haru sealed his own mind from a mind reader



> That is up for debate




Not really


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## Sablés (Oct 14, 2017)

It happened in Haru's fight against Kings' boys where he sealed his mind to prevent some fucker from reading it. Not sure why you think people would assume Runesave could do that.


Blade said:


> discussing for a hopeless upgrade from a clorox novel is so cringe


We were already shown the quake happening in the manga, the novel just elaborates on the aftermath.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 14, 2017)

Haru used Runesave against Shakuma, which was right before he got Ravelt. So yea he used it after Lucia sealed it


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## Divell (Oct 14, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Look she is pointing to Ichigo's left. If it were the gate where Ichigo's group emerged from then that would mean that the distance they traveled was a 3 day walk, so Ichigo Chad and Uryu were stricken at the size by watching it from 360 km away which would make it ridiculously large since even at that distance they still had to look slightly up to see the roof. There's even a panel drawn from the perspective of their eyesight. At the very least, the height would be easily over 100km based on that. But at the time Hollow Ichigo shot the Cero downwards on Ulquiorra, a panel can be seen where the shockwave is rushing out of the gate, which is at the center of the wall.
> 
> You have to see past the damn text blocking the view.
> Btw diameters are for circles


Follow the finger, and Ichigo and Renji;s possitions. She is pointing at the desert. 

Yeah, forgot thsi one wasn't a circle.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Divell said:


> Follow the finger, and Ichigo and Renji;s possitions. She is pointing at the desert.
> 
> Yeah, forgot thsi one wasn't a circle.


I'm just saying the further away from the fortress she is pointing at, the bigger Las Noches ends up being.
But like the scan I posted shows, there _is_ a gate in the center of the wall, so that throws out any other misinterpretation.
Again, the gate being on the wall makes Las Noches country size. It being away from the fortress makes Las Noches even bigger.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 14, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Haru sealed his own mind from a mind reader


Can I get the chapter? It's been years since I read it



> Not really


Sure if we took the wikis at face value then it wouldn't be. But I mean, the wiki considers Seireitei city sized so why should I?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 15, 2017)

Las Noches is a surrealistic place where entire buildings disappear from one page to the next, but not as bad as the ghost mountains from the Soul Society 


Anyway Ichigo wins do to speed.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Las Noches is a surrealistic place where entire buildings disappear from one page to the next, but not as bad as the ghost mountains from the Soul Society


This one gets it. Those aerial depictions are reasonably imprecise


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## Keishin (Oct 15, 2017)

Las noches is also interesting because the roof part which is like 1/3 of the entire thing is not part of what's inside (Cero Oscuras leaving no holes)


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## Divell (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I'm just saying the further away from the fortress she is pointing at, the bigger Las Noches ends up being.
> But like the scan I posted shows, there _is_ a gate in the center of the wall, so that throws out any other misinterpretation.
> Again, the gate being on the wall makes Las Noches country size. It being away from the fortress makes Las Noches even bigger.


There is no gate in no picture.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 15, 2017)

Shoudn't you guys make like a meta thread or something like that because this became "Fishing for Bleach Uprades" instead  of being Ichigo vs Haru...?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Shoudn't you guys make like a meta thread or something like that because this became "Fishing for Bleach Uprades" instead  of being Ichigo vs Haru...?


Point me out to the section because this building level Menos Grande is outright hilarious


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Point me out to the section because this building level Menos Grande is outright hilarious


What do you mean point you out ? Just go to the meta battledome section and post a thread there.


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## Divell (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Point me out to the section because this building level Menos Grande is outright hilarious


Is a subsection of battledome.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

Isn't there a feat discussion thread for Bleach anywhere?


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Isn't there a feat discussion thread for Bleach anywhere?


Nobody cares about Bleach in the OBD anymore , so yeah...there is a Bleach section somewhere on the forum..you can find it if you search for it.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Nobody cares about Bleach in the OBD anymore , so yeah...there is a Bleach section somewhere on the forum..you can find it if you search for it.


Yeah I was having second thoughts about that. Not worth clarifying power of the verse cuz Bleach is dead. City sized Seireitei ftw


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Yeah I was having second thoughts about that. Not worth clarifying power of the verse cuz Bleach is dead. City sized Seireitei ftw


Hey, if you have something concrete then go for it. The series is still gonna be used in battles here and there, it's just that looking over stuff to find some upgrades isn't interesting to a lot of members since it's Bleach is over and it's quality is... yeah..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Xhominid (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Yeah I was having second thoughts about that. Not worth clarifying power of the verse cuz Bleach is dead. City sized Seireitei ftw



Yeah it doesn't work like that smartass, try again...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Hey, if you have something concrete then go for it. The series is still gonna be used in battles here and there, it's just that looking over stuff to find some upgrades isn't interesting to a lot of members since it's Bleach is over and it's quality is... yeah..


I might do it some time


Xhominid said:


> Yeah it doesn't work like that smartass, try again...


Sorry? What doesn't work like what? I don't-


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## Kurou (Oct 15, 2017)

Xhominid said:


> Yeah it doesn't work like that smartass, try again...




Relax dude

he wants to discuss the series power/feats ect but he realizes if no ones interested there's no point. He was even asking for sections where he could discuss it


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## Kurou (Oct 15, 2017)

Hint


it aint here

Reactions: Like 1


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## Xhominid (Oct 15, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Relax dude
> 
> he wants to discuss the series power/feats ect but he realizes if no ones interested there's no point. He was even asking for sections where he could discuss it



Then he could have made the topic at Meta-Battledom like Reyatsu told him.
Hell, there's a discussion about how strong the Soul King is that's on the first page right now. And to be frank with the novels, we are hitting a breakthrough for once for Bleach.


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## Kurou (Oct 15, 2017)

He's new give him a break instead of calling him a smart ass

Smart ass


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## Source of Hate (Oct 15, 2017)

It's fine. The SK thing is only one thing. There are old things going as far back as Substitue Shinigami arc that I would like to have revised. What has me at a loss is "smartass." Literally all I did was back off and left things as they were because I didn't think it was worth the trouble. I don't see what is so smartass-y about that


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Oct 15, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> What's the deal Runesave, that it seals Getsugas? It ain't really a big game changer to Haru's favor. Actually if Ichigo decides to infuse a GT in his swing and Haru attempts to seal it, he's going to get split



Runesave would still effect it since it sealed powers from physical matter too like human bodies. but it does have limits like if the power is too strong for it.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Runesave would still effect it since it sealed powers from physical matter too like human bodies. but it does have limits like if the power is too strong for it.


 That's something I'd have to see for myself because the primordial restriction Runesave had since the beginning is that it can't do anything to things with shape


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

...........


It fucking sealed etherion in Elie


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> ...........
> 
> 
> It fucking sealed etherion in Elie


What does one have to do with the other?


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> What does one have to do with the other?



etherion's energy and effect is stronger than anything in bleach.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> etherion's energy and effect is stronger than anything in bleach.


Even supposing that's true, Haru would still get split in the process. As they clash swords, the Getsuga may get sealed but the blade will still keep going considering Runesave would phase through it and Ichigo


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Even supposing that's true, Haru would still get split in the process. As they clash swords, the Getsuga may get sealed but the blade will still keep going considering Runesave would phase through it and Ichigo



 without energy, He can't really tore through a skin specially one from a superhuman. that's like a knife meeting a stone, without any real force behind the knife. It isn't going to split that stone, a knife can't even split a normal human finger without any force/energy exerted into it why would Ichigo's sword cut something harder than that without any energy behind it....

Ichigo needed his strongest attack to damage someone like Haru who had tanked an attack multiple times from Lucia that had already combined with endless..

Without that energy/force that is powering Ichigo's strike he isn't going to even tickle the shit out of haru...


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> without energy, He can't really tore through a skin specially one from a superhuman. that's like a knife meeting a stone, without any real force behind the knife. It isn't going to split that stone, *a knife can't even split a normal human finger without any force/energy exerted into it* why would Ichigo sword cut something harder than that without any energy behind it....
> 
> Ichigo needed his strongest attack to damage someone like Haru who had tanks attack from Lucia that had already combined with endless multiple times..
> 
> Without that energy/force that is powering Ichigo's strike he isn't going to even tickle the shit out of haru...


I need proof of this. I want you to make the experiment.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Divell said:


> I need proof of this. I want you to make the experiment.



test it with a knife in your household leave it on a table however you likw, then place your finger any off it next to the sharp end close enough to touch the skin but not close enough that you would force your skin to be cut...

let see if it can cut you without anything touching the knife or you plunging your finger into it.

 you can wait for a whole year if you like, tell us the result... that test should tell you No force/energy exerted to it = No cut.


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> test it with a knife in your household leave it on a table however you like place you finger next to the sharp end..
> 
> let see if it can cut you without anything touching the knife or you plunging your finger into it.
> 
> you can wait for a whole year if you like, tell us the result... that test should tell you No force =/= No cut.


I'm asking *you* to prove it. Make a video and send the link.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Divell said:


> I'm asking *you* to prove it. Make a video and send the link.



DIY is a thing now for your generation, from what I can see with youtube, so DIY the experiment if you like.

I just told you the process.


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> DIY is a thing now for your generation, from what I can see with youtube, so DIY the experiment if you like.
> 
> I just told you the process.


Nah Man, I'm good.  Your claiming something as true so it falls under your category to prove it.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Divell said:


> Your claiming something as true so it falls under your category to prove it.



This is common sense. No force/energy = no work

a knife with no force or energy exerted to it = it has no way to cut.

Now unless you are one of the morons that can't understand basic physics/science then you should start thinking about going back to school.. because I'm pretty sure even a second grade student can understand this concept.



Divell said:


> Nah Man, I'm good.  Your claiming something as true so it falls under your category to prove it.



experiment are a good thing, but there's no reason to experiment on basic shit that has already been proven by hundreds or even thousands of people to understand how this concept works, it is just a waste of time for you and me or anyone else.


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> This is common sense. No force/energy = no work
> 
> a knife with no force or energy exerted to it = it has no way to cut.
> 
> ...


Man. Chill. I'm just divelling your jimmies.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Divell said:


> Man. Chill. I'm just divelling your jimmies.



 I'm okay, mostly bored.


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> I'm okay, mostly bored.


Me too.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> without energy, He can't really tore through a skin specially one from a superhuman. that's like a knife meeting a stone, without any real force behind the knife. It isn't going to split that stone, a knife can't even split a normal human finger without any force/energy exerted into it why would Ichigo's sword cut something harder than that without any energy behind it....
> 
> Ichigo needed his strongest attack to damage someone like Haru who had tanked an attack multiple times from Lucia that had already combined with endless..
> 
> Without that energy/force that is powering Ichigo's strike he isn't going to even tickle the shit out of haru...


You can't seal Reiatsu for it will exist for as long as the heart beats. You can only contain it to an extent. See Aizen. The best you can say is that it will seal that one GT. But now you're arguing that it can even seal kinetic energy which is just amazing


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> You can't seal Reiatsu for it will exist for as long as the heart beats.


That's a massive NLF. If it is strong enough, an item or a power can seal a power weaker than itself. Reyatsu existing as long as a heart bets is a Bleach mechanic that's iirelevant in the OBD.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> . But now you're arguing that it can even seal kinetic energy which is just amazing



No shit that's not what I said..

I said that he wouldn't harm Haru without the use of his GT, (his strongest attack). and even if he does hit Haru after his energy has been sealed he wouldn't harm Haru.. Because his normal strike is not strong enough to harm someone as tough as Haru. Hence the knife and stone analogy. Where there is no real force exerted to the knife.


shade0180 said:


> chigo needed his strongest attack to damage someone like Haru who had tanked an attack multiple times from Lucia that had already combined with endless..
> 
> *Without that energy/force that is powering Ichigo's strike* he isn't going to even tickle the shit out of haru...



 Kinetic energy alone isn't going to help Ichigo or his sword.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 16, 2017)

He can just seal all of Ichigo's energy and make him useless, no energy means his stats will be low as fuck


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## Keishin (Oct 16, 2017)

Yhwach stole both the hollow and quincy powers from him and he was still a god tier so not really.. Haru would have to be able to seal both the bankai and Ichigo which almost seems to me like a waste of turns.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

> That's a massive NLF. If it is strong enough, an item or a power can seal a power weaker than itself. Reyatsu existing as long as a heart bets is a Bleach mechanic that's iirelevant in the OBD.


Nah it's a mechanic that is different than whatever else works in Rave. You can't stop a Shinigami from producing Reiatsu as long as he is alive just like a human's heart pumps blood as long as it beats. Throwing around "NLF" accusations whenever convenient is just a nonsensical move one uses when one doesn't know how to answer in this type of circumstance. I can even throw it back at you for saying that Haru can seal everything in fiction no matter how it works even though it is never even stated in its own verse that it can seal everything.
You're basically saying that Runesave is capable of making Ichigo a normal human that can't see ghosts in a Final Getsuga Tensho style. And in the case of Naruto for example, it would be a one hit kill lol


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Right, fuck the equivalence rule , fuck every rule, just let Ichigo win.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> No shit that's not what I said..
> 
> I said that he wouldn't harm Haru without the use of his GT, (his strongest attack). and even if he does hit Haru after his energy has been sealed he wouldn't harm Haru.. Because his normal strike is not strong enough to harm someone as tough as Haru. Hence the knife and stone analogy. Where there is no real force exerted to the knife.
> 
> Kinetic energy alone isn't going to help Ichigo or his sword.


Unless Rave's durability scaling works like that of Bleach, where Reiatsu levels determine if an attack can be tanked pretty much regardless of the physical method that is used- punch, blade, beams, etc- you're gonna have a tough time proving that Haru can take the full force of Ichigo's strike concentrated in the blade without being harmed. Ie, prove that Haru basically has enough durability to tank- wtf would Ichigo's strength be, island level in this forum?- per square inch of his body or something like that.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Right, fuck the equivalence rule , fuck every rule, just let Ichigo win.


See, this type of freak argument this young (wo)man right here^ is presenting is the equivalent of saying that if a character has the ability to render someone blind like for ex Haru's Million Sun, then a thing like Bleach's Reikaku, u kno that spiritual sense that allows them to locate a target by seeing their energy/soul without actual eyesight, would also be disabled. Cuz Bleach suks dawgs so it loooses


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> See, this type of freak argument this young (wo)man right here^ is presenting is the equivalent of saying that if a character has the ability to render someone blind like for ex Haru's Million Sun, then a thing like Bleach's Reikaku, u kno that spiritual sense that allows them to locate a target by seeing their energy/soul without actual eyesight, would also be disabled. Cuz Bleach suks dawgs so it loooses


Is this  what you understood from it ? Oh, you poor insecure little guy.
And yes Bleach sucks and it looses in this scenario at least.


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

Reiatsu is just another form of generic shounen energy. Runesave allows Haru to cut magic energy. That's is all that needs to be known.

It doesn't matter if it's Ki, Reiatsu, Yoki, Nen, Innocence, Spirit Power or whatever else nonsensical similarly named energy the characters use to fling energy blasts at one another.

Ichigo can output more than what Haru can seal, though.

Go play victim somewhere else.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Is this  what you understood from it ? Oh, you poor insecure little guy.
> And yes Bleach sucks and it looses.


Get a cup of coffee and chill out, clear your head. I'm here trying to reason while using the wiki's stats I disagree with. You're trying to make it seem like Haru can win using a sword that just wouldn't work. Meanwhile if Haru is country+ level, then I agree that he can beat _country_ level Ichigo. Sure, easy. Just not with Runesave Lmao


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Get a cup of coffee and chill out, clear your head. I'm here trying to reason while using the wiki's stats I disagree with. You're trying to make it seem like Haru can win using a sword that just wouldn't work. Meanwhile if Haru is country+ level, then I agree that he can beat _country_ level Ichigo. Sure, easy. Just not with Runesave Lmao


No, you're tryin to blatantly ignore the rules that we have to give your boy the win while also victimizing yourself and your precious Clorox.
Lmao.
So, fuck off.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No, you're tryin to blatantly ignore the rules that we have to give your boy the win while also victimizing yourself and your precious Clorox.
> Lmao.
> So, fuck off.


That's the exact opposite of what I just said lol. Put on your glasses because I said *Haru wins*. Should I use a bigger font?


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> That's the exact opposite of what I just said lol. Put on your glasses because I said *Haru wins*. Should I use a bigger font?


You should use a bigger brain and learn about some rules. That's what you should do.


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## LazyWaka (Oct 16, 2017)

Play nice children.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Reiatsu is just another form of generic shounen energy. Runesave allows Haru to cut magic energy. That's is all that needs to be known.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's Ki, Reiatsu, Yoki, Nen, Innocence, Spirit Power or whatever else nonsensical similarly named energy the characters use to fling energy blasts at one another.
> 
> ...


Everything is a case by case. Reiatsu and Shinigami go hand in hand. No Reiatsu = regular human. You can't have one and not the other. And it's passive just like how a person produces CO2 by breathing. Magical energy in Rave is completely different.

The only similarity is that both are used as an energy source. But this "rule" that you people are erroneously applying is quite _literally_ an association fallacy. The textbook example of it


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## Sablés (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Magical energy in Rave is completely different.


Runesave isn't limited to magic energy anyway soooo


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Reiatsu is just another form of generic shounen energy. Runesave allows Haru to cut magic energy. That's is all that needs to be known.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's Ki, Reiatsu, Yoki, Nen, Innocence, Spirit Power or whatever else nonsensical similarly named energy the characters use to fling energy blasts at one another.
> 
> ...




I'm sorry since when could Ichigo output enough power to pop the planet like a zit?


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Everything is a case by case


No.


Source of Hate said:


> Reiatsu and Shinigami go hand in hand


And ninjas and chakra go hand in hand, what's your point ?


Source of Hate said:


> Magical energy in Rave is completely different


By what basis? 


Source of Hate said:


> The only similarity is that both are used as an energy source


That's the only thing we need.


Source of Hate said:


> But this "rule" that you people are erroneously applying is quite _literally_ an association fallacy


No, it's just a tool we employ to make everything as fair as possible. Otherwise we would have Akumas form D.Gray-man soloing most of fiction since they can be only harmed by Innocence which by your logic is "speciaall". Don't be retarded.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> You should use a bigger brain and learn about some rules. That's what you should do.


Not a good shot: elephants have bigger brains.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Not a good shot: elephants have bigger brains.


Even with something that big it still wouldn't help you.


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

pretty sure a mod just said stfu guys

you should probably listen


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> No.
> 
> And ninjas and chakra go hand in hand, what's your point ?
> 
> ...


Let me actively ignore everything since it's not a rebuttal and just confirm that it is your belief that a touch of Runesave strips Ichigo of 100% of his powers even seeing ghosts and OHK Naruto


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> pretty sure a mod just said stfu guys
> 
> you should probably listen


Mod said play nice


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Let me actively ignore everything since it's not a rebuttal and just confirm that it is your belief that a touch of Runesave strips Ichigo of 100% of his powers even seeing ghosts and OHK Naruto


Suit yourself man. Good luck with that "logic" of yours. Let me  just give you a piece of advice. Whaterer you're trying to push with "special reyatsu" has been tried before and didn't fly. Those kind of discussions happened like 8 years ago. You're a little late.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Suit yourself man. Good luck with that "logic" of yours. Let me  just give you a piece of advice. Whaterer you're trying to push with "special reyatsu" has been tried before and didn't fly. Those kind of discussions happened like 8 years ago. You're a little late.


I didn't catch that. Is it or is it not your belief that a touch of Runesave would strip Ichigo of 100% of his powers including his ability to see ghosts and OHK Naruto? Yes or no question


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Everything is a case by case. Reiatsu and Shinigami go hand in hand. No Reiatsu = regular human. You can't have one and not the other. And it's passive just like how a person produces CO2 by breathing. Magical energy in Rave is completely different.
> 
> The only similarity is that both are used as an energy source. But this "rule" that you people are erroneously applying is quite _literally_ an association fallacy. The textbook example of it



Quick lesson to learn: we use _*energy equivalence *_in vs. debates.  We apply this in every battle where there are different systems of fighting used, whether someone is using magic, soul powers, or some other fictional energy. 

In this case, "magic" bears equivalence to "reiatsu" for the purpose of the fight, and vice versa.

There are very little exceptions to that rule.  It is not an "association fallacy".


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Runesave isn't limited to magic energy anyway soooo


Yeah I know. You may seal an expended amount of Reiatsu but- uh oh- heart is still beating. There's more coming up. Unless you'd argue that Runesave would stop the heart?


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Quick lesson to learn: we use _*energy equivalence *_in vs. debates.  We apply this in every battle where there are different systems of fighting used, whether someone is using magic, soul powers, or some other fictional energy.
> 
> In this case, "magic" bears equivalence to "reiatsu" for the purpose of the fight, and vice versa.
> 
> There are very little exceptions to that rule.  It is not an "association fallacy".


I'm presenting a scenario where the rule is not enough. So it is a case by case scenario. And the thing is I'm not getting a clear response


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I'm presenting a scenario where the rule is not enough. So it is a case by case scenario. And the thing is I'm not getting a clear response



Is it a "clear response" you want, or just a response that conforms to your perception of things?

If a sealing ability exists in a vs. battle, energy equivalence means that sealing ability can affect the abilities of someone from another Universe, with the limit to its effectiveness being determined by the most powerful entity said ability was able to affect in the user's home Universe, or via power-scaling.  

That's all you need to know.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Here are the options with Runesave:

1) It seals the Reiatsu that is being exerted but the target will passively produce more.

2) It stops the heart(wtf) thus sealing Reiatsu permanently

3) It seals Reryoku, and by extension Reiatsu, basically transforming the character into a real life human

So everyone vote on it. I really don't care what the result ends up being. I'm just poking holes into this rule so that you're aware of what you're agreeing on.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

"If a Shinigami's Saketsu (鎖結, Chain Binding; Viz "Chain") and Hakusui (魄睡, Soul Sleep) are pierced, their spiritual powers are sealed up and they most likely can never regain their lost powers again."

No rule is having holes poked into it; you just don't know enough about Shinigami anatomy.

So no, no need to vote on what you are trying to force into the thread.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

I vote #1. If not, #3 makes more sense than #2


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

You're not poking holes in anything

you're just being dumb. I know you're new but when you have most of the section telling you how things work and you're covering your eyes and shouting ur wrong ur probably wrong


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Everything is a case by case. Reiatsu and Shinigami go hand in hand. No Reiatsu = regular human. You can't have one and not the other. And it's passive just like how a person produces CO2 by breathing. Magical energy in Rave is completely different.
> 
> The only similarity is that both are used as an energy source. But this "rule" that you people are erroneously applying is quite _literally_ an association fallacy. The textbook example of it


No, it's not. The in depth mechanics Bleach uses to try to make their energy source different from another series is irrelevant. All we need to know is that its magic energy that allows the characters to perform specialized attacks. 



Kurou said:


> I'm sorry since when could Ichigo output enough power to pop the planet like a zit?


Are you talking about the overdrive stuff?


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

The lore doesn't matter, Source of Hate. Save that for the Bleach section.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> "If a Shinigami's Saketsu (鎖結, Chain Binding; Viz "Chain") and Hakusui (魄睡, Soul Sleep) are pierced, their spiritual powers are sealed up and they most likely can never regain their lost powers again."
> 
> No rule is having holes poked into it; you just don't know enough about Shinigami anatomy.
> 
> So no, no need to vote on what you are trying to force into the thread.


Okay, you voted #3


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Okay, you voted #3



I voted on nothing.  

You're just one of those guys who thinks that the only way debates should be done is _their way_.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Imagine said:


> The lore doesn't matter, Source of Hate. Save that for the Bleach section.


What's your vote? If you think there's another possibility, add it.

I don't mean to be hostile btw. I'm genuinely curious


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> I'm sorry since when could Ichigo output enough power to pop the planet like a zit?



Given the info from "Cannot Fear Your Own World", since he was a viable candidate for being made into the Soul King, since it was stated that global earthquakes took place in HM, SS, and the Living World, after the Soul King died.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I voted on nothing.
> 
> You're just one of those guys who thinks that the only way debates should be done is _their way_.


So you don't think that Runesave seals all his Reryoku? I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about my intentions


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> No you idiot Etherion


We only ever applied Runesave to what Haru and the other characters could output. Overdrive being the strongest shit which was country level

Otherwise, Haru is planet level.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> So you don't think that Runesave seals all his Reryoku? I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about my intentions



Oh, you are making your intentions very apparent.


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

Imagine said:


> We only ever applied Runesave to what Haru and the other characters could output. Overdrive being the strongest shit which was country level
> 
> Otherwise, Haru is planet level.




No we havent


Runesave didnt make Haru planet level he could just seal energies of that level. Runesave never translated to DC


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

He wasn't very consistent with Runesave, either. Sometimes it gave us raw energy yields other times it was just used to just cut intangible stuff.

Maybe the raw energy yields are just the residual energy leftover


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## Imagine (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> No we havent
> 
> 
> Runesave didnt make Haru planet level he could just seal energies of that level. Runesave never translated to DC


Except it literally gave us a raw DC feat of Haru splitting a tsunami 

Its the only reason why Sieg is city+ and not multi city block level


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> You're not poking holes in anything
> 
> you're just being dumb. I know you're new but when you have most of the section telling you how things work and you're covering your eyes and shouting ur wrong ur probably wrong


Ur wrong is not an answer. I am not getting a clear response. Would you do me the honor of telling me how Runesave would interact with Ichigo? I am not new at this btw. I'm just new in knowing my way around this forum


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

Imagine said:


> Except it literally gave us a raw DC feat of Haru splitting a tsunami
> 
> Its the only reason why Sieg is city+ and not multi city block level




No that was a calc chaos did at which point Keo corrected him about how the nature of runesave works.


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## Sablés (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Outlier implies its a one time thing.
> 
> Considering its even a plot point multiple times its not really an "outlier"


Its happened more than once?

Mashima had a random trinket pulled out of his ass to seal Etherion when its supposedly the strongest thing in the series by miles. Then had it be broken by Musica. Worse, is that you'd expect something like the TCM or Decalogue that should be superior to it yet Lucia never thinks of sealing Etherion with Runesave and saving himself the trouble. A foresight which inevitably fucks him over.



Source of Hate said:


> I am not getting a clear response.



Yes, you are. You're just refusing to adapt to how cross versus battles operate.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Yes, you are. You're just refusing to adapt to how cross versus battles operate.


No man and you know it. You all are just reciting the rule but you're not telling me how it applies in a way that makes sense. And snipping the rest of the post leads me to believe that you yourself don't know how it applies. It's beginning to get frustrating


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Its happened more than once?



He sealed it and at multiple times throughout the story they had to confirm whether the seal still worked



> Mashima had a random trinket pulled out of his ass to seal Etherion when its supposedly the strongest thing in the series by miles. Then had it be broken by Musica.



Yeah deus ex machina is dumb. Also why do you bring up musica

The guys power is the manipulation of metals



> Worse, is that you'd expect something like the TCM or Decalogue that should be superior to it yet Lucia never thinks of sealing Etherion with Runesave and saving himself the trouble. A foresight which inevitably fucks him over



Aint PIS grand?

Its the same reason why Shuda wasnt juat making all of his enemies brains explode (before he lost the DB)


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

See, this is what happens when you are not allowed to deal with shitheads. @Source of Hate  you need to get back to Spergbattles or from wherever the hell you came from. A large  numbers of regulars are calling you out and you still sporting an attitude.

Just fuck off, please. Or go make friends with Divell and then you can suck Kubo off at your own leissure.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Sablés (Oct 16, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Right there in the comments after Keo corrects him he says theres no reason why it wouldnt apply to Haru's normal strikes without it......


Is this for Imagine?

Cuz I just posted the link, never said anything about the tsunami or energy yields.


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

Sablés said:


> Is this for Imagine?
> 
> Cuz I just posted the link, never said anything about the tsunami or energy yields.




...........


I thought you were imagine

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> See, this is what happens when you are not allowed to deal with shitheads. @Source of Hate  you need to get back to Spergbattles or from wherever the hell you came from. A large  numbers of regulars is calling you out and you still sporting an attitude.


What attitude is that? Extremely patient? I'm the one playing nice. 



> Just fuck off, please.


Yeah maybe if you actually reply. I'm not even looking for a "right" answer. Just _an_ answer



> Or go make friends with Divell and then you can suck Kubo off at your own leissure.


smh


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## Kurou (Oct 16, 2017)

You were already given answers


Youre just being obstinate now


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Ur wrong is not an answer. I am not getting a clear response. Would you do me the honor of telling me how Runesave would interact with Ichigo? I am not new at this btw. I'm just new in knowing my way around this forum



We have been giving you answers.

Energy equivalence = Ability to seal reiatsu (if the ability is strong enough to do so).


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> We have been giving you answers.
> 
> Energy equivalence = Ability to seal reiatsu (if the ability is strong enough to do so).


Okay but HOW would it seal it? In what manner? That is literally all I'm asking


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Okay but HOW would it seal it? In what manner? That is literally all I'm asking





In the way that is defined by how Runesave works.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> In the way that is defined by how Runesave works.


See that is not a clear answer. Does it take away Ichigo's Reryoku? It feels like I'm asking too much. Like nobody wants to risk saying the wrong thing Goddamn

Maybe y'all might feel less pressured if we made different scenarios in which Runesave would affect Ichigo and determine the battle's result in each?


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## Blakk Jakk (Oct 16, 2017)

Well this has turned into muh heart magic is better than yer seal.

This is some OMGMAN tier debating here.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Blakk Jakk said:


> Well this has turned into muh heart magic is better than yer seal.
> 
> This is some OMGMAN tier debating here.


So...we are debating Fairy Tail basically .
Thanks Hate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 16, 2017)

Fart magic > Heart magic anyway

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BackwoodSlav (Oct 16, 2017)

This thread seems to be mostly resolved anyway, but I might as well help clarify few things that were brought up in here for the sake of future reference.



Source of Hate said:


> Unless Rave's durability scaling works like that of Bleach, where Reiatsu levels determine if an attack can be tanked pretty much regardless of the physical method that is used- punch, blade, beams, etc- you're gonna have a tough time proving that Haru can take the full force of Ichigo's strike concentrated in the blade without being harmed. Ie, prove that Haru basically has enough durability to tank- wtf would Ichigo's strength be, island level in this forum?- per square inch of his body or something like that.


Haru gets scaled to country level+ Overdrive even in terms of durability, as he took several attacks from EoS Lucia, who also scales to that. And EoS Lucia also uses a sword as well, so the whole "concentrated damage" bit is pretty much pointless.



Imagine said:


> We only ever applied Runesave to what Haru and the other characters could output. Overdrive being the strongest shit which was country level


I'd argue that it's sealing ability can be powerscaled to Etherion, since that thing gets sealed a bunch of times in the series by several different things, like with a random magic bracelet _twice_ and by Runesave itself early on during the first encounter with Sieg. And there's no reason why it should scale to DC, as the sword's whole purpose is to pretty much be the anti-magic weapon.


Imagine said:


> Except it literally gave us a raw DC feat of Haru splitting a tsunami
> 
> Its the only reason why Sieg is city+ and not multi city block level





Imagine said:


> It's STILL producing an energy yield. It has to for the calc to even be a thing


An important thing to note is that Runesave's ability to "seal" magical energies is actually distinct from it's ability to "cut things that can't be cut". In the case of the tsunami, the sword merely helped Haru to "cut" a mass that didn't have a solid shape but was otherwise physical in nature, so you can derive a calc from it. In other words, the energy from the things it merely "cuts" doesn't actually disappear, it just "scatters" to different directions. What that thing did to Elie's Etherion is entirely different, as it completely "locked away" her magic inside her body.



Sablés said:


> Its happened more than once?


Actually, I did some digging up on old Rave chapters (because my last thread on this subject was pretty much left unresolved), and even outside of the examples from the Sieg Hart encounter (where it got sealed for the first time) and the thing that happened at EoS with the anti-magic trinket, Elie was also shown using some random magic blocker during the Makai world arc to hide and block her magic (chapter 214, pages 17 - 20). When you combine this with the fact that the sealing of Etherion was actually an important plot point that was referenced several times during the course of the series, I would argue it can't really be called an "outlier". Sealing abilities in Rave are simply OP in general, and quite consistently so.


Sablés said:


> Worse, is that you'd expect something like the TCM or Decalogue that should be superior to it yet Lucia never thinks of sealing Etherion with Runesave and saving himself the trouble. A foresight which inevitably fucks him over.


Maybe Lucia wanted to save his Runesave for his fight with Haru? I don't really recall the sword being able to maintain multiple seals at once, and it would only make sense that maintaining a seal on something as powerful as Elie's Etherion *and* fighting a newly improved Haru would be more straining than just doing one of those things. And Musica showing up to remove that trinket from Elie was completely unexpected event anyway, due to the powerful four demon gods that were acting as vanguards.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

BackwoodSlav said:


> Haru gets scaled to country level+ Overdrive even in terms of durability, as he took several attacks from EoS Lucia, who also scales to that. And EoS Lucia also uses a sword as well, so the whole "concentrated damage" bit is pretty much pointless.


It doesn't matter that Lucia uses a sword. Did Haru ever stop a concentrated country level attack with his body?


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Oct 16, 2017)

Isn't Ichigo country level to a higer level and also faster anyway?


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> It doesn't matter that Lucia uses a sword. Did Haru ever stop a concentrated country level attack with his body?



By that context no one in bleach has tank an attack surpassing building level.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> By that context no one in bleach has tank an attack surpassing building level.


(sigh) let me rephrase that. Did Haru ever stop a concentrated piercing attack with country level potency with his body?

I'm not even sure how what you said is related in anyway


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> By that context no one in bleach has tank an attack surpassing building level.


Ichigo took a small town lv attack back in SS arc. Pretty sure that counts as an attack surpassing building lv.  

Wonder Wise was rammed into the floor, leaving a crater ending in a MCB lv back in Arrancar Saga. 

Ichigo also shrugged off 5 MCB+ (each) Garra de la Pantera to the back and kept fighting. 

#nevertankBuildinglvattacksmyass.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> let me rephrase that. Did Haru ever stop a concentrated piercing attack with country level potency with his body?
> 
> I'm not even sure how what you said is related in anyway



Because the "concentrated" argument is about the most ridiculous arguments you can make to justify BS, such as "kugelblitz temperature" flames, or 1,000,000 decibel White Sound.


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## Divell (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Because the "concentrated" argument is about the most ridiculous arguments you can make to justify BS, such as "kugelblitz temperature" flames, or 1,000,000 decibel White Sound.


What he meant is Ichigo's attacks are all that energy concentrated. And he is asking if the guy took it. He just doesn't know whether is concentrated or a nuke is pretty much the same.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Because the "concentrated" argument is about the most ridiculous arguments you can make to justify BS, such as "kugelblitz temperature" flames, or 1,000,000 decibel White Sound.


I assume you're a real person. And in real life, a knife is deadlier than a punch even when both have the same energy behind it. Same way a magnifier concentrates the heat of the sun to exponentially painful levels compared to when you receive it in its dispersed form. Haru may have blocked/tanked country level explosions or maybe scaled from someone who can. But being caught in a country level blast requires much less durability than stopping a country level lance with your skin. And it's kind of disappointing how little fans are aware of this basic concept. And it's not like it doesn't happen in manga. Happens all the time


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I assume you're a real person. And in real life, a knife is deadlier than a punch even when both have the same energy behind it. Same way a magnifier concentrates the heat of the sun to exponentially painful levels compared to when you receive it in its dispersed form. Haru may have blocked/tanked country level explosions or maybe scaled from someone who has. But being caught in a country level blast requires much less durability than stopping a country level lance with your skin. And it's kind of disappointing how little fans are aware of this basic concept.



 you do know Lucia is a sword user right?


we know you are bullshitting Divell didn't understand that.

that's why you handwave the shit where the sword was mentioned.

Seriously lucia is country+ level, it is obvious as a sword user his attack is concentrated country level..

you handwave that shit that's why I responded that by that context no one is bleach has tank anything higher than building level because shit are they are also using a sword which don't show building level DC when attacking each other.


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I assume you're a real person. And in real life, a knife is deadlier than a punch even when both have the same energy behind it. Same way a magnifier concentrates the heat of the sun to exponentially painful levels compared to when you receive it in its dispersed form. Haru may have blocked/tanked country level explosions or maybe scaled from someone who has. But being caught in a country level blast requires much less durability than stopping a country level lance with your skin. And it's kind of disappointing how little fans are aware of this basic concept.



We aren't SpaceBattles or Vs. Battles.  _That is what reality is.



_


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> you do know Lucia is a sword user right?
> 
> 
> we know you are bullshitting Divell didn't understand that.
> ...


I don't doubt that Lucia has a sword. The question is if Haru at any moment stopped Lucia's sword with his body


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> We aren't SpaceBattles or Vs. Battles.  _That is what reality is._


I don't get it


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I don't doubt that Lucia has a sword. The question is if Haru at any moment stopped Lucia's sword with his body



When you get up to a point as high as country-level, the difference between the body's ability to resist blunt force and cutting becomes irrelevant.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> When you get up to a point as high as country-level, the difference between the body's ability to resist blunt force and cutting becomes irrelevant.


I feel like you're pulling this out of nowhere. But Madara disagrees with you. A whole world of manga disagrees with you


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I don't doubt that Lucia has a sword. The question is if Haru at any moment stopped Lucia's sword with his body



 shit is it is common for Rave to tank shit from a sword with their body


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> shit is it is common for Rave to tank shit from a sword with their body


I can barely tell what's going on in there. I see something that looks like conjured ice sending Haru flying


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I can barely tell what's going on in there. I see something that looks like conjured ice sending Haru flying



Yea he got hit by blue crimson which is an Ice and flame elemental sword.

 still doesn't stop it from being a sword hit.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Yea he got hit by blue crimson which is an Ice and flame elemental sword.
> 
> still doesn't stop it from being a sword hit.


-___-

You know it doesn't have to be a sword or even Haru. Just someone somewhere stopping a concentrated attack with his/her body. Can be a laser or anything pointy or whatever. DBZ or Bleach or Superman style. If there ain't then there ain't. But that would mean that it couldn't be argued that Haru can block Ichigo's blade with his skin unless his durability were like a thousand times higher or something along those lines.


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> -___-
> 
> You know it doesn't have to be a sword or even Haru. Just someone somewhere stopping a concentrated attack with his/her body. Can be a laser or anything pointy or whatever. DBZ or Bleach or Superman style. If there ain't then there ain't. But that would mean that it couldn't be argued that Haru can block Ichigo's blade with his skin unless his durability were like a thousand times higher or something along those lines.


Plue did it.

 like literally did it on panel. and again Haru was tanking hits from Lucia that was combined with endless.. Literally everyone has said that early on. 

There's nothing to argue here in the first place we already know Haru's durability is physically Country level. Ichigo's blade attack in base without his GT isn't going to harm Haru and even then Haru can just seal his energy.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Oct 16, 2017)

Haru doesnt even need Runesave, he uses Sacrifar and goes blood knight on Ichigo's dumb ass


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> Plue did it.
> 
> like literally did it on panel.


Plue stopped with his body a concentrated attack smaller than his own body of equal power to his durability? I'd like to see a scan of that.



> and again Haru was tanking hits from Lucia that was combined with endless..


Tanking like this 



> Literally everyone has said that early on.


Not like that^



> There's nothing to argue here in the first place we already know Haru's durability is physically Country level.


Once again surviving a country level attack does not automatically guarantee surviving every type of country level attack. See Madara



> Ichigo's blade attack in base without his GT isn't going to harm Haru


So far I haven't been convinced that durability scales like that in Rave



> and even then Haru can just seal his energy.


Seal all his Reryoku, right?


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## LazyWaka (Oct 16, 2017)

Why do we give a shit about madara?


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Tanking like this *Spoiler*:



and that's not going to give building level damage.

 that's your point right.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> Why do we give a shit about madara?


There's this misconception that a durability feat(like country level) in fiction guarantees that a character can survive all country level attacks of every way, shape, or form, in any manner, etc... You know, contrary to real life. Madara is a counter-example of that(or literally a plethora of other character/series). Not that a counter-example is needed since it was never proven to hold true.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and that's not going to give building level damage.
> 
> that's your point right.


Again, I don't see the relevance. Can Haru stop Lucia's supposed country level sword swings like Kenpachi stopped Ichigo's whatever level sword swing in that panel?


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> There's this misconception that a durability feat(like country level) in fiction guarantees that a character can survive all country level attacks of every way, shape, or form, in any manner, etc....


There's no misconception here. Except for your claim that Ichigo can somehow still throw country level attack even with his energy sealed.

Again Haru isn't going to tank Ichigo's country level attack, he is going to tank Ichigo's attack  which is only supported by Gravity and his physical strength which could be town level for all we know. 

 Country level is shit that Ichigo can throw at his strongest and Haru can seal that with Runesave..


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> There's no misconception here. Except for your claim that Ichigo can somehow still throw country level attack even with his energy sealed.


With all of spiritual energy sealed Ichigo would be a normal human. So no, I never said that.



> Again Haru isn't going to tank Ichigo's country level attack, he is going to tank Ichigo's attack  which is only supported by Gravity and his physical strength which could be town level for all we know.


Depends on what you mean by "seal his energy."



> Country level is shit that Ichigo can throw at his strongest and Haru can seal that with Runesave..


Same as above


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Ichigo would be a normal human. So no, I never said that.



That's literally what you said...



Source of Hate said:


> Even supposing that's true, Haru would still get split in the process. As they clash swords, the Getsuga may get sealed but the blade will still keep going considering Runesave would phase through it and Ichigo








Source of Hate said:


> Depends on what you mean by "seal his energy."



there's no other meaning for it. It prevents him from using/utilizing that energy.

 it is sealed... do I even need to give you a dictionary definition of the word seal? Because I'm pretty sure you understand the concept we are talking about because of the

First quote.



> With all of spiritual energy sealed


 seriously... you're being obstinately retarded at this point.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> That's literally what you said...


The *Getsuga*, not all his spiritual energy =______=





> there's no other meaning for it. It prevents him from using/utilizing that energy.
> 
> it is sealed... do I even need to give you a dictionary definition of the word seal?


I voted for sealing what Ichigo produces at the time. You're saying that he seals Ichigo's entire spiritual energy, which, whether you're aware of it or not, renders him a normal human


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> seriously... you're being obstinately retarded at this point.


Tsk aww


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## shade0180 (Oct 16, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> The *Getsuga*, not all his spiritual energy =______=



He seals energy, and more.

Getsuga is a result of that energy.


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## Keishin (Oct 16, 2017)

Here's the thing though: Mayuri says that "the reiatsu of a shinigami (which Ichigo is part of) will continue to ceaselessly flow for as long as the heart is beating, which is why there was never a chance for the restraints to estinguish your reiatsu, so the technological skill was spent in restraining the reiatsu to their body."

Isn't this scenario pretty much the same as when Yhwach stole Ichibei's power? It will just continue to flow regardless.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> He seals energy, and more.
> 
> Getsuga is a result of that energy.


So Runesave would seal Ichigo's spiritual energy, rendering him a normal human. That's what you say would happen, right?


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## Source of Hate (Oct 16, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Here's the thing though: Mayuri says that "the reiatsu of a shinigami (which Ichigo is part of) will continue to ceaselessly flow for as long as the heart is beating, which is why there was never a chance for the restraints to estinguish your reiatsu, so the technological skill was spent in restraining the reiatsu to their body."


That's why I voted #1: Runesave seals each Getsuga it receives but doesn't permanently seal Ichigo's Reiatsu



> Isn't this scenario pretty much the same as when Yhwach stole Ichibei's power? It will just continue to flow regardless.


I find that's a different case. Yhwach stole Ichibei's power, but it's Ichibei's innate ability to manipulate the power of everything that is/has black. And since Yhwach had black, Ichibei merely took it back(and more).


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I find that's a different case. Yhwach stole Ichibei's power, but it's Ichibei's innate ability to manipulate the power of everything that is/has black. And since Yhwach had black, Ichibei merely took it back(and more).



Yhwach "took it", but he could not make it his own because "black"_ belongs to Ichibei.  _Not because "Yhwach had black".



Source of Hate said:


> I voted for sealing what Ichigo produces at the time. You're saying that he seals Ichigo's entire spiritual energy, which, whether you're aware of it or not, renders him a normal human



No, it doesn't.  Rendering Ichigo a normal Human would mean taking away his spiritual power entirely.  _Sealing it just means Ichigo cannot use his spirit power actively.

_


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Yhwach "took it", but he could not make it his own because "black"_ belongs to Ichibei.  _Not because "Yhwach had black".


"You did steal it. But the power you stole doesn't belong to you. My power is Black. Once I unleash Ichimonji...Soul Reapers, Quincies, the Dead and the Living, all the black in this world becomes mine."
Let me add that even the black of night time from the future "becomes his."



> No, it doesn't.  Rendering Ichigo a normal Human would mean taking away his spiritual power entirely.  _Sealing it just means Ichigo cannot use his spirit power actively._


And what does it mean to use his spiritual power actively? Because everything that any Shinigami can ever do needs the slightest use of their spiritual power. To not be able to have access to it means not being able to do anything. Not even have stats.


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## bitethedust (Oct 17, 2017)

This discussion just reeks of retardedness. Guess Bleach characters can now endlessly spam attacks because lolreiatsu won't stop flowing out


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> This discussion just reeks of retardedness. Guess Bleach characters can now endlessly spam attacks because lolreiatsu won't stop flowing out


Tell me how Runesave interacts with Ichigo's power. It's so damn easy to call anyone a retard but apparently it takes massive balls to just say one's opinion about something.
At least Catalyst has made progress


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

It's like everyone suffers from a social anxiety disorder or you're just pussies scared for your rep. 10 damn pages


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 17, 2017)

Muh heart magic > reason and rules. Why does Bleach always attract such specimens i'l never know. 
Yo, OP, there's a much better place where you can spew your bullcrap. 

There you go.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> snip


Stfu u coward


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Stfu u coward


Oh, did it get pissed ? I'm sorry little buddy, better go read some Bleach and calm down. I'm sure Ichigo's heart magic will calm you right down. After all  , it's "special" just like you.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> snip


By dancing around the question I've been asking for like 8 pages, this has to be the most pathetic attempt at taking shots at me. You are not worth my time by forum standards


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## bitethedust (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Tell me how Runesave interacts with Ichigo's power. It's so damn easy to call anyone a retard but apparently it takes massive balls to just say one's opinion about something.
> At least Catalyst has made progress



It stops his reiatsu without stoppimg Ichigo's heart or anything. Jesus Christ you're almost as bad as the fuckers from /a/ arguing that if something hasn't happened in X or Y series then it can't happen yet only using that card when it suits them for stonewalling.


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> By dancing around the question I've been asking for like 8 pages, this has to be the most pathetic attempt at taking shots at me. You are not worth my time by forum standards


My attemtps at taking shots at you are pretty weak compared to what mother nature originally  did to you . That i admit. I can't top that. Other then that, i'm fine. Now, go back to your little safe space and never come back again.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> It stops his reiatsu without stoppimg Ichigo's heart or anything.


The only way that would be possible is if it sealed all of Ichigo's spiritual powers. Just confirm that this is what you think would happen if you really do and you'll be a million years more advanced than the monkey above me



> Jesus Christ you're almost as bad as the fuckers from /a/ arguing that if something hasn't happened in X or Y series then it can't happen yet only using that card when it suits them for stonewalling.


No you fucking idiot you just have to be precise. The verse has a system and you're like "HURRR wel den dey do dis and pbht doo bee"


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 17, 2017)

Monkey, huh ? I'm sorry, but i'm not the one who is two minutes away from throwing his fieces at us because we don't want to entertain his jumbled mess of a logic.
Eat a banana and behave.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Keishin (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Here are the options with Runesave:
> 
> 1) It seals the Reiatsu that is being exerted but the target will passively produce more.
> 
> ...


sealing reiatsu from Shinigami won't turn them to human because humans are made of kishi, anything in Soul Society is made of Reishi. You can't even go to SS without changing the matter you're made of.


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## bitethedust (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> The only way that would be possible is if it sealed all of Ichigo's spiritual powers. Just confirm that this is what you think would happen if you really do and you'll be a million years more advanced than the monkey above me
> 
> No you fucking idiot you just have to be precise. The verse has a system and you're like "HURRR wel den dey do dis and pbht doo bee"



So you want Runesave to, instantly stop his heart and kill Ichigo because BLECH DEEP LORES BRUH

Alright


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

Keishin said:


> sealing reiatsu from Shinigami won't turn them to human because humans are made of kishi, anything in Soul Society is made of Reishi. You can't even go to SS without changing the matter you're made of.


A regular spirit then


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> So you want Runesave to, instantly stop his heart and kill Ichigo because BLECH DEEP LORES BRUH
> 
> Alright


I want you to give me an answer that makes sense. Haru is not some reality warper and there are sealing mechanics in Bleach. So you tell me what you think would happen


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

I'll just recap so you don't have to reread so much material. For the purpose of this thread, Runesave seals energy, right?

There are two things being taken into consideration: sealing Reiatsu, or sealing spiritual energy.

So suppose Runesave seals one or the other(or both for that matter).

Sealing Reiatsu: Because it is a canon fact that a Shinigami will passively produce new Reiatsu as long as their heart beats, then using Runesave would logically seal the energy attacks produced by it, but not seal the Reiatsu itself permanently because the heart is still beating. Unless one would argue that Runesave would stop the heart, _thus_ ending Reiatsu permanently, which is just not Runesave's ability.

Sealing spiritual energy: it stops the Shinigami's access to spiritual energy, the source of all their abilities and power(Reiatsu too), rendering it a regular soul. Just like how it is when their Soul Chain and Soul Sleep is destroyed.


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## shade0180 (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Runesave seals energy, right?



It isn't limited to energy.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> It isn't limited to energy.


I know, it seals every physical thing that has no constant form too like water and fire. I was told it could seal memories and mind and emotions or whatever but I asked for the scan and it never arrived


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

What puzzles so much is that since you're all(or those of you who are) so intent on having Haru seal Ichigo's energy to lower his power to the point of not being a match, why is it so difficult to say that Runesave would just seal Ichigo's spiritual energy and turn him into a fodder soul? It's actually a realistic scenario all things considered so just fucking say it lol


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## Kurou (Oct 17, 2017)

Go read chapter 62 for the thought sealing

People arent allowed to link to sites anymore


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Go read chapter 62 for the thought sealing
> 
> People arent allowed to link to sites anymore


That explains so much. Thanks


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

I read the part. He says that he used Runesave to clear his head for a moment. But it's not like he lost his consciousness or became a dummy. Sooooo, is it really something that would be very effective in this match up?


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## shade0180 (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> I know, it seals every physical thing that has no constant form too like water and fire. I was told it could seal memories and mind and emotions or whatever but I asked for the scan and it never arrived


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## Kurou (Oct 17, 2017)

No one said that would be effective

You asked about what runesave could do

Reactions: Like 1


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## shade0180 (Oct 17, 2017)

the shit that would be effective is his ability to seal energy.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

Kurou said:


> No one said that would be effective
> 
> You asked about what runesave could do


Huh. I must have been under the wrong impression, my bad. But you also said that it can seal memories?



shade0180 said:


> the shit that would be effective is his ability to seal energy.


As long as you're referring to sealing Ichigo's spiritual energy, fuck yeah it would


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## Kurou (Oct 17, 2017)

Seal erase tomato tomato


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## Divell (Oct 17, 2017)




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## Divell (Oct 17, 2017)

Kurou said:


> Go read chapter 62 for the thought sealing
> 
> People arent allowed to link to sites anymore


wait what? Why?


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## Kurou (Oct 17, 2017)

Divell said:


> wait what? Why?




Iunno

the admins don't want people posting direct links to manga ect and when we do post them it makes more work for mods since they have to delete them

So either cite the chapter and page or save the image and host it yourself


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 17, 2017)

bitethedust said:


> It stops his reiatsu without stoppimg Ichigo's heart or anything. Jesus Christ you're almost as bad as the fuckers from /a/ arguing that if something hasn't happened in X or Y series then it can't happen yet only using that card when it suits them for stonewalling.



Pretty much.  He's like OMGMAN without the false courtesy or politeness.


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## Source of Hate (Oct 17, 2017)

Okay so let me entertain this fanfiction for a moment. Say Haru "seals his Reiatsu permanently without taking away his powers." Go on and rewrite canon and tell me: how strong does Ichigo end up being?

Now I'll wait another year until someone gathers his balls and gives me a direct answer


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## Kurou (Oct 17, 2017)

Vs battles in general are fanfiction

And we dont need you to entertain shit

I dont know why people are still replying to you its a waste of energy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TYPE-Rey (Oct 17, 2017)

In theory, waiting 1 year for us to grow balls is far better than us waiting forever for you to develop a working brain.
Fucking faggit.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## bitethedust (Oct 17, 2017)

Source of Hate said:


> Okay so let me entertain this fanfiction for a moment. Say Haru "seals his Reiatsu permanently without taking away his powers." Go on and rewrite canon and tell me: how strong does Ichigo end up being?
> 
> Now I'll wait another year until someone gathers his balls and gives me a direct answer



Do you need another eleven pages of people bashing your head in for being obtuse, ignorant of basic rules the section uses since years ago and ignoring the shit you're being told repeatedly by several people, even by those who really love the fuck out of Bleach like catalyst? Or would you rather stop bumping a dead thread with questions people have already answered while you pretend everyone else is not saying anything? Which one is it gonna be, Source of Comedy?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Catalyst75 (Oct 17, 2017)

Short answer: Ichigo loses the fight because he cannot use his spiritual abilities.

Long answer: It depends on whether or not Ichigo is found to be stronger than the limit of power which Runesave is able to seal.

Answer I already mentioned *and does not rewrite canon:* Hakusui and Saketsu are fundamentally important to a Shinigami's spiritual power.  Saketsu boosts spiritual power, while Hakusui is the source.  They are like pressure points, _and can be sealed if pierced_, causing a Shinigami's spiritual power to be sealed away permanently.  

Direct answer: Stop being self-conceited, actually listen to what people are telling you, and consider their answers, instead of just blatantly ignoring any answers that do not fit with your pre-conceived notion of things.  Runesave is a _*magic seal*_, meaning it does not need to target a specific point on Ichigo's body to seal his Zanpakuto or his spiritual power, nor does the method of sealing have to conform with methods known in Bleach.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Adamant soul (Oct 17, 2017)

This is exactly the type of idiot who would insist genjutsu doesn't work on non-Naruto characters because they don't have chakra.


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## Divell (Oct 17, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> This is exactly the type of idiot who would insist genjutsu doesn't work on non-Naruto characters because they don't have chakra.


You're right. They wouldn't work because they don't have a Chakra NETWORK.


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## Divell (Oct 17, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Short answer: Ichigo loses the fight because he cannot use his spiritual abilities.
> 
> Long answer: It depends on whether or not Ichigo is found to be stronger than the limit of power which Runesave is able to seal.
> 
> ...


But isn't he to slow? Haven't check his profile or anything but I read people claiming Ichigo was faster.


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## LazyWaka (Oct 17, 2017)

Locked because this has gone on long enough and because (most) people have already agreed on an answer.


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## Imagine (Oct 17, 2017)

JK lock this shitstorm


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## Nighty the Mighty (Oct 17, 2017)

Waka 

In regards to this dumb argument, we have examples from bleach thst show you can seal something without destroying it or halting hearts or anything of that nature. For example, urahara sealed aizen's power at the end of decide.


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