# Dante vs Saber and Lancer



## Dariustwinblade (Jun 17, 2010)

Dante has all his swords, he can only summon one weapon on hand at a time, he has all his powers from the 4 games and Desperate trigger.


Saber and Lancer is at their strongest.



Battle in New York city.


CSI and PSI off.


Senairo 1: battle1 Dante vs Saber alone
              battle2 Dante vs Lancer alone


Senairo 2: Both simultaniously.


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## Riverlia (Jun 17, 2010)

Which version of Saber? Which Lancer? How far do they start apart?


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## Rene (Jun 17, 2010)

He's not taking on both servants at the same time when he'd have trouble fighting off one.

Gae Bolg and Excaliblast takes this. Either of the two servants are capable of locking weapons with Dante on equal level anyways.

I'm not sure how his time stop would work on Saber/Lancer though, since they have no feats of faring up against time stop like Gilgamesh does. With time stop he could take this though, but in a straight up fight he's not doing anything against both of them.


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## Cypher0120 (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm inclined to say Dante due to Quicksilver or the Bangle of time. 

Avalon should be able to protect Saber from it, but she may not be able to do enough damage to get through Dante's regeneration.


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## Ulti (Jun 17, 2010)

shame CIS is off in character Dante would probably flirt with saber and get blasted for his advances.

In all seriousness:

Dante takes both 1 on 1 with difficulty and both together could take him unless he is allowed time hax.

I wonder how avalon and Yamato would compare though


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## Crimson King (Jul 10, 2010)

Just wondering Archer with his shitty C in Magic Resistance fought off a timestop in a few seconds. Would Saber's A in Magic Resist be able to fight off the timestop?

(I know it's a bump but I don't care)


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

if BOTH servants fought it off they would more than likely take Dante. Gae Bolg can prevent Dante from regenerating and Saber could finish him off. Though if he manages to take out Lancer before he can activate Gae Bolg. Mind you Lancer's MR is B IIRC. 

This is assuming they can fight time stop off though. Even then they would to work as a unit to take out Dante.


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## Juri (Jul 10, 2010)

You guys are forgetting about doppleganger the matches can be 2v1 and 2v2.


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

Damn yeah. Forgot about that

Not much they can do against a sentient shadow.Things are looking bleak for team servant.


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Avalon!

Or maybe Lancer's boom spear for long range.


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## Dariustwinblade (Jul 10, 2010)

Yamato for Avalon. 

It can slice through multiple dimensions, he should be able to bypass Avalon's. Defences


And I forgot. He can go to Majin Trigger(Desperation Devil Trigger) or Drednaught mode armor and turn himself invincible (taking absolutely no damage, no matter what the attack). To stop Gae Bolge.


Another question does Ger Bolge *completely* prevent regeneration, or just regeneration of the wound its target recieve, in which case it is always the heart. Cause Dante can live and fight properly with multiple things shoved inside him. Remember the opening scene of DMC 3.(that was the weakest Dante)

Another question is since Avalon magical output capability exceeded Gae Bolgs curse Shiro was able to survive the spear three fricking time. Dante's regeneration is much greater, And he can live with something large shoved into his chest. Dante's potency for magical resistance is very great.


Another thing, what happens if Hercules gets Gae Bolged, cause it never happened. Does god hands 13 labors allow ressurection OR does Hercules get one shotted. Dante has revived himself from death in* more *than one occation, often comming back stronger than before. 

Eg: Vergil vs Dante, Vergil stabbs dante in the heart and he came back stronger with a new devil trigger. 

Or Dante in the end of DMC anime. Abigale killed him after crucifying him in a shit tonne of spikes with one wedged through the heart and then sealed him up. Dante came back as though.


I want to know the limit of Gae Bolge, cause it has recieved unnatual amount of hype.
People saying, Gilgemesh and Lancer with it can one shot people like Dante, Father,Naraku, Hulk, Alucard etc

I want to know its limitation


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Yamato shouldn't even be able to slice through Avalon considering it's beyond the Five True Magics. One of them being that of multiple dimensions itself... I think.

As for Gae Bolg, it aims for the heart but as long as it remains in the wound, it's going to make sure it doesn't heal. Can't say much about it but you need a shield that can surpass Gae Bolg's prana to even stop it. Heck, a seven-layered Rho Aias wouldn't be able to stop it when used as a close attack and not thrown. 

Gae Bolg shouldn't even be able to get past God Hand. It's B-ranked, and God Hand makes sure only attacks exceeding B would penetrate it. If it works though, I would assume it kills Berserker once, the spear disappears, and Berserker revives with immunity to it.

I can assume Dante should be able to win IF he can finish off Saber first before she uses Avalon. Having an Excalibur incinerate you with Gae Bolg lodged can't be a good thing.


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

Wait what match is being debated here

Dante vs Saber or the 2 on 1 scenario?

It's getting awfully confusing =/


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Wait what match is being debated here
> 
> Dante vs Saber or the 2 on 1 scenario?
> 
> It's getting awfully confusing =/



If it's Dante vs. Saber, it may likely be a tie through Avalon's use considering he can't get her while Saber is likely to miss with Excaliblasting.

If it's Dante vs. Lancer, Lancer can keep up for a while but as soon as he uses Gae Bolg, piercing Dante's heart. If Dante can still fight, Lancer's screwed since he has no other way to fight back with other than using suicide runes.

It's when it's two against one that's the big problem.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

> Yamato for Avalon.
> 
> It can slice through multiple dimensions, he should be able to bypass Avalon's. Defences



That can actually destroy Avalon's defenses.



> Another question does Ger Bolge completely prevent regeneration, or just regeneration of the wound its target recieve, in which case it is always the heart. Cause Dante can live and fight properly with multiple things shoved inside him. Remember the opening scene of DMC 3.(that was the weakest Dante)



Complete anti-regen to the body.



> Another question is since Avalon magical output capability exceeded Gae Bolgs curse Shiro was able to survive the spear three fricking time. Dante's regeneration is much greater, And he can live with something large shoved into his chest. Dante's potency for magical resistance is very great.



Dante's regen is not better than Avalon's. Avalon's protection goes up to the 6th dimension.



> Another thing, what happens if Hercules gets Gae Bolged, cause it never happened. Does god hands 12 labors allow ressurection OR does Hercules get one shotted. Dante has revived himself from death in more than one occation, often comming back stronger than before.



The real question is if Gae Bolg can penetrate God Hand? If so, Herc revives and grows resistant. And Dante has one life for the record.



> Eg: Vergil vs Dante, Vergil stabbs dante in the heart and he came back stronger with a new devil trigger.
> 
> Or Dante in the end of DMC anime. Abigale killed him after crucifying him in a shit tonne of spikes with one wedged through the heart and then sealed him up. Dante came back as though.



Those never killed him, Dante just has high resistance to damage plus regen. Mundus stabbed him with energy arrows in multiple places and he was fine. 



> I want to know the limit of Gae Bolge, cause it has recieved unnatual amount of hype.
> People saying, Gilgemesh and Lancer with it can one shot people like Dante, Father,Naraku, Hulk, Alucard etc
> 
> I want to know its limitation



Cuz Gae Bolg can. 


*Spoiler*: __ 





As the lance has pierced the heart even before it is thrust, it is impossible to dodge or block it once this result has been determined. To dodge Gae Bolg, one does not need high AGI (agility), but instead the ability to change this fate before Gae Bolg is executed, LCK (luck) is most important. It is the most efficient Noble Phantasm, as it requires little magical energy to activate, and each activation is a sure kill.

To fill in, shields/armors/etc. of high divinity or magical defense can block it. As for luck, since it can't be measured, something like probability or fate manipulation can defy the cause & effect of Gae Bolg.


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

I can agree with that.

Dante is kinda bad match up for Lancer
Saber can use avalon but with the heat Dante is packing it is reasonable to assume he can kill her before Avalon.

2 vs 1 is probably more balanced


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

basch71 said:


> That can actually destroy Avalon's defenses.



Not exactly.



> While bounded in this manner, an individual is shielded from all destructive interference in the physical realm, from parallel worlds, and dimensional planes. Avalon transcends even the most advanced sorceries, and not even the five "true" magics are able to overcome this absolute defense.



And it's going to take more than Gae Bolg to take down The Hulk, Alucard, Father, or Naraku. Lancer can't beat those, Gilgamesh can probably beat them except for The Hulk through Ea, not Gae Bolg.


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

Jedah could survive Gae Bolg 

/end jedah fanboyism


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

> Not exactly.



Yes exactly. A weapon that can slash through multiple dimensions can most likely bypass Avalon's multi-dimensional defense.



> While bounded in this manner, an individual is shielded from all destructive interference in the physical realm, from parallel worlds, and dimensional planes. Avalon transcends even the most advanced sorceries, and not even the five "true" magics are able to overcome this absolute defense.



Avalon is strong on the dimensional level. A weapon that can pass through multiple dimensions can bypass that.


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Considering 'Multi-Dimensional refraction phenomenon' is one of the abilities of the Second Magic, with Avalon beyond that it still shouldn't even be able to be cut.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Considering 'Multi-Dimensional refraction phenomenon' is one of the abilities of the Second Magic, with Avalon beyond that it still shouldn't even be able to be cut.



A weapon that can get past the 6th dimension will destroy Avalon's defenses. LHW Tenchi (not Kami) will get passed it no prob.


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

10char


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Oh Tenchi would be able to beat it, no problem. But Yamato?

I mean, it is a spacial dimensional-attack by nature but how many does it go through?


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## Ulti (Jul 10, 2010)

It isn't elaborated on.


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## God (Jul 10, 2010)

Dante solos with timestop.


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Dante could win with timestop assuming it takes a while for Lancer or Saber's magic resistance to take care of it. Saber does have better resistance than Archer who broke out of Caster's timestop after all. 

But it's not like they're immune like Gilgamesh was.


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## Juri (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Dante could win with timestop assuming it takes a while for Lancer or Saber's magic resistance to take care of it. Saber does have better resistance than *Archer who broke out of Caster's timestop after all. *
> 
> But it's not like they're immune like Gilgamesh was.



Wasn't that a spacial freeze rather than a timestop?


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## God (Jul 10, 2010)

Proof of either of these characters ever breaking out of timestop and not just assuming they can because Archer did?


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Well their magic resistance is quite higher. And Cycloid was right, Caster wasn't really using timestop, she was using a variation of the Fifth... I think in terms of stopping every single movement in an enclosed space.

Anyways, in terms of 'Resistance'...



> However, what is being canceled out is Prana itself, not the spell. Comparison-wise, Prana is the equivalent of water and the spell is a solid object. Unless the target has as much Prana as Caster, a finished spell cannot be canceled. Modern spells are "structurally" inferior to ones from ones from the time of Caster and hence can be washed away easily by Caster, using the above example.
> 
> Not the Prana Invulnerability of Servants. The equivalent of a save vs.
> 
> The general result is that these kinds of control spells have low success rates, which is why many tend to go for spells that cause a physical result.



Does Dante's timestop count as a spell or no?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Well their magic resistance is quite higher. And Cycloid was right, Caster wasn't really using timestop, she was using a variation of the Fifth... I think in terms of stopping every single movement in an enclosed space.
> 
> Anyways, in terms of 'Resistance'...
> 
> ...



Quicksilver isn't a spell. It's more like Dio's The World, anyone caught in it's AoE experiences a timestop.


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## Big Bοss (Jul 10, 2010)

I will give this to Dante.


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## Knight (Jul 10, 2010)

So what Caster casted was actually something compared to stasis and FF/KH stop?


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

Knight said:


> So what Caster casted was actually something compared to stasis and FF/KH stop?


 Something along those lines.


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Got it.



> Atlas
> 圧迫 - Appaku
> 
> Freezes the target in place by altering the pressure of the atmosphere. Anchoring a region of space to prevent movement. One of Caster's spells. High thaumaturgy. Pretty much useless against Saber... Breaking free of it is possible through sheer power (Prana), ala Archer.



Not timestop.


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## God (Jul 10, 2010)

Dante's Quicksilver/Bangle of Time/Chrono Heart isn't a spell or magic, it's just time manipulation.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Got it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not timestop.


 More like spacial freeze.


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## Cypher0120 (Jul 10, 2010)

Of course, Quicksilver and the Bangle of Time does use up his Devil Trigger gauge. Not a spell per se, but it does require Dante's magic to use.


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## Knight (Jul 10, 2010)

For the sake of simplifying it. Its just a fancy version of Mass Effect stasis. So let's leave it at there and continue. I say Dante wins by true time stop.


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## God (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Of course, Quicksilver and the Bangle of Time does use up his Devil Trigger gauge. Not a spell per se, but it does require Dante's magic to use.



It isn't magic, it's demonic energy. Besides, its method doesn't matter. The point is it is time manipulation, straight-up. Doesn't have anything to do with magic/mana/prana, etc etc.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 10, 2010)

Cypher0120 said:


> Of course, Quicksilver and the Bangle of Time does use up his Devil Trigger gauge. Not a spell per se, but it does require Dante's magic to use.


Game mechanics.



> It isn't magic, it's demonic energy. Besides, its method doesn't matter.


 
This



> For the sake of simplifying it. Its just a fancy version of Mass Effect stasis. So let's leave it at there and continue. I say Dante wins by true time stop.


 
This. We can't say Saber and Lancer can breakthrough a timestop based on Gil's feats b/c those are his feats, not theirs.

However without timestop and Sparda, Dante is fucked to be honest.


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## God (Jul 10, 2010)

That's true though he can probably hold his own for a few minutes if he has Yamato because of its spatial manipulation powers.


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## Ulti (Jul 11, 2010)

Dante without timestop is still a monstrous foe.

He could possibly kill both with the heat he's packing, however Saber and Lancer have more of a chance like say 7/10 without timestop

Dante 10/10 with timestop


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## Crimson King (Jul 11, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Dante without timestop is still a monstrous foe.
> 
> He could possibly kill both with the heat he's packing, however Saber and Lancer have more of a chance like say 7/10 without timestop
> 
> Dante 10/10 with timestop



Unless Lancer manages to get Gae Bolg off first.


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## Ulti (Jul 11, 2010)

Before Dante stops time?

Because he can activate it mentally IIRC, I'd give Dante good odds in pulling off the activation of Quicksilver/Bangle of Time before Lancer activates Gae Bolg (no idea what would be better to use).

Without timestop Dante could hold his own but he can't take both at the same time.


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## Crimson King (Jul 11, 2010)

IIRC You can activate a NP just by saying it's name. Some don't even need that.


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## Ulti (Jul 11, 2010)

Of all the times Lancer used Gae Bolg IIRC he has had to call out the spears name.

Unless he does it without calling the name of the spear in HF because I haven't played through that route yet. 

But yeah if Gae Bolg hit Dante Lancer would have played his part and he can let Saber finish him off while maybe providing back up with runes. But that's without time stop . With Quicksilver/Bangle of Time, the window that Lancer needs to activate Gae Bolg is a great opportunity for Dante to capitalize and stop time.


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## Crimson King (Jul 11, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Of all the times Lancer used Gae Bolg IIRC he has had to call out the spears name.
> 
> Unless he does it without calling the name of the spear in HF because I haven't played through that route yet.
> 
> But yeah if Gae Bolg hit Dante Lancer would have played his part and he can let Saber finish him off while maybe providing back up with runes. But that's without time stop . With Quicksilver/Bangle of Time, the window that Lancer needs to activate Gae Bolg is a great opportunity for Dante to capitalize and stop time.


Lancer uses escape rune to jump out of time stop field


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## Ulti (Jul 11, 2010)

Then he gets blasted to pieces by Pandora's Box


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## Crimson King (Jul 11, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Then he gets blasted to pieces by Pandora's Box



Not if Gae Bolg hits first


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## Dariustwinblade (Jul 11, 2010)

Can't Dante just create, a barrier strong enough to block Gae Bolge, or use dreadnaught armor. Cause as someone said. Something with sufficient magical energy exceeding the Gae Bolg should be able to stop it. So what is Rhio Alas's greatest blocking feat.


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## Crimson King (Jul 11, 2010)

Dariustwinblade said:


> Can't Dante just create, a barrier strong enough to block Gae Bolge, or use dreadnaught armor. Cause as someone said. Something with sufficient magical energy exceeding the Gae Bolg should be able to stop it. So what is Rhio Alas's greatest blocking feat.



a BARRIER with more prana than Gae Bolg can stop it, though I don't know how seeing it was able to bypass Fragarach.

Armor will do jack shit.

Rho Aias only blocked the thrown version, and 6 layers were still destroyed.


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## Riverlia (Jul 11, 2010)

> Rho Aias only blocked the thrown version, and 6 layers were still destroyed.


All 7 layers were destroyed as far as I remember, the last layer barely stopped the spear the moment it was destroyed


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 11, 2010)

Ultimecia said:


> Of all the times Lancer used Gae Bolg IIRC he has had to call out the spears name.
> 
> Unless he does it without calling the name of the spear in HF because I haven't played through that route yet.
> 
> But yeah if Gae Bolg hit Dante Lancer would have played his part and he can let Saber finish him off while maybe providing back up with runes. But that's without time stop . With Quicksilver/Bangle of Time, the window that Lancer needs to activate Gae Bolg is a great opportunity for Dante to capitalize and stop time.


 The minute Lancer calls Gae Bolg's name, it's immediately in your heart. Lancer only does the thrusting as a formality. And you can't out run it through shear speed.


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## Ulti (Jul 11, 2010)

Dante doesn't need to say anything to activate bangle of time/Quicksilver.

That's an advantage. Also when did Lancer activate the ability of Gae Bolg without thrusting the spear =/ hell if I recall offical description says once the spear is THRUST yadda yadda yadda.


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## Riverlia (Jul 11, 2010)

'the spear is thrust' is the 'effect' of 'the heart is pierce', as in, it's only a formality, 'courtesy to reality', if you will, and doesn't need an owner to perform such action.
In effect, even though Lancer was 'killed' by Fragarach via time reversal before he can use Gaebolg, the spear still pierced Bazette's heart without him actually thrusting.


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## Dariustwinblade (Jul 12, 2010)

basch71 said:


> Complete anti-regen to the body.




So it can one shot alucard, father, naraku and the hulk. Cause none of them have are resistance to the same full body curse.

And nothing was actually stated about this. infact I remember when Lance struck Shiro's heart he said to saber.


A *wound* from this cursed lance will never heal. Nothing stated by other wound inflicted by other weapons after wards.



> Dante's regen is not better than Avalon's. Avalon's protection goes up to the 6th dimension.



Dude what is the 6th dimension! what the hell does it do? Merely saying sixth dimension without showning any special fleats means nothing.

Dude even Shiro would have died from a wound pierce through the heart. Dante gets pierced, stabbed, skewered regularly. And regen soo fast that even his clothes can't get cut. He was slice in half multiple times by vergil came back fine. One clear cut though the mid section and he didn't even split in half he regenerated as the sword was in his body.




> The real question is if Gae Bolg can penetrate God Hand? If so, Herc revives and grows resistant. And Dante has one life for the record.
> 
> Those never killed him, Dante just has high resistance to damage plus regen. Mundus stabbed him with energy arrows in multiple places and he was fine.




Vergil did kill him in the end after stabbing him in the stomach, then stabbing him with rebellion through the heart after he was exhausted.

His hand fell and vergil thought he had killed him. Dantes demon blood revived him back. You even have that sound effect of a heart stopping beating as Vergil stabs Dante

Similarly when (sid)Abigale fought Dante in a demon dimension, Dante died his heart stopped beating came back after when Patty was in danger and crying for him



> Cuz Gae Bolg can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Ulti (Jul 12, 2010)

IIRC he pretty unlucky at least in the anime

He is just *INSANELY* skilled and puts most fighters to shame.


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 12, 2010)

> So it can one shot alucard, father, naraku and the hulk. Cause none of them have are resistance to the same full body curse.
> 
> And nothing was actually stated about this. infact I remember when Lance struck Shiro's heart he said to saber.
> 
> ...


 
A lot of the feats are explained through support info like in game data and shit.



> *Gae Bolg - The Spear of Impaling Barbed Death/The Spear of Striking Death Flight *
> 
> A cursed spear that will always go through the heart of the opponent when struck. Reverses causality in which the spear is launched after the truth that the heart had already been hit had been constructed. Since the spear had already hit the target, no matter what he might do, he can't avoid it. Surviving through Gae Bolg will require an auto-resurrect Noble Phantasm or high LCK. Damage taken by Gae Bolg will not be able to be recovered from as long as Gae Bolg continues to exist (not exactly true, but well, close enough). Prana consumption is relatively low compared to its destiny interference ability and it can be used 7 times without needing to be refilled. Gae Bolg's true ability is as a thrown weapon, however, in which the full power of the curse of Gae Bolg is unleashed. Emphasis in this case is on destructive power rather than targetting accuracy. Damage and shape are approaching that of Lugh's Brionac, but the power of "striking the enemy no matter how many times he may dodge" comes from Odin's Gungnir.


 


> Dude what is the 6th dimension! what the hell does it do? Merely saying sixth dimension without showning any special fleats means nothing.


 


> *Avalon - The Ever Distant Utopia *
> 
> The normal ability is healing injuries and preventing aging. Activation as a Noble Phantasm causes it to come apart in hundreds of pieces and completely protect its user from all forms of interference, a mobile fortress. Shuts out all physical interference, transliners from parallel worlds, and multidimensional (multiplanar; as far as the 6th) contact. A Noble Phantasm on the level of magic. It *can't* reflect energy bolts like in the anime. Hell it didn't even do that in the game when Ea was used against Avalon in the real last battle. Rank: EX
> Type: Bounded Barrier


 
Which blocked Gilgamesh's Ea, which can do this.



> *Enuma Elish - Ea - The Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth*
> 
> The sword of disintegration. A weapon that slices through space itself. While Excalibur releases air, the sword draws it in by cycling its triblades and compresses it. The highly compressesed wind pressure strata results in the creation of an artificial space-time fracture that is thought to be the basis of all legends of lands of the dead, the origin of the memory of all organisms. In other words, Ea can be said to be a key to hell itself or rather absolute "truth" according to Gilgamesh. Something that is not found in the imagination or in the spoken memory of people, but in the genetically inherent and repressed knowledge of a place and time when organic existence had been impossible on this planet. The activation name for the Noble Phantasm is Ea, however, the sword has no true name; Gilgamesh just calls it that. Enuma Elish is added to get the maximum output. Damage is STR x 20. At random, MGI will be added on to STR. Maximum damage is 4000, but vault items can and will increase this. Damage is so high that it is undefendable except through purge-resistant AC or nullification by striking the blast with an equally strong attack.
> Rank: EX
> Type: Anti-world


 


> Dude even Shiro would have died from a wound pierce through the heart. Dante gets pierced, stabbed, skewered regularly. And regen soo fast that even his clothes can't get cut. He was slice in half multiple times by vergil came back fine. One clear cut though the mid section and he didn't even split in half he regenerated as the sword was in his body.


 
Shiro has plot armor from the gods cuz he got stabbed in the heart with Gae Bolg, TWICE!



> I know how gae bolge works. It is not the undogable part that is dangerous it is the unhealable part that is toublesome.


 
It's part of it but also cuz it's a 1 hit kill with 100% accuracy.



> Well when you stop time, probality can alter. Seeing he can timestop he should be able to dodge as his heart will not exist is the space where the heart has pierced.
> 
> Heart is Pierces the spear is thrusted, but the moment of activation if the heart does not exist is the space time of it originally was what happens?


 
Time manipulation ain't fate manipulation. And Gae Bolg seeks in on the heart and will bend in all angles till it hits.



> Dante can do that he can charge Items with magical energy and amp it up. Like a normal bike can go hypersonic. So long as the Item Can contain it.


 
You can't dodge it with speed and we would need to see on screen feats of him doing that.



> He can also create barriers and has a demonic armor that makes him invincible for some time.


 
We talking about game mechanics wise or actually used in cutscenes and how much can it tank?



> Time stop is a kind of fate manipultion as stopping time alters probality.
> He himself has insane luck.


 
No it's not. Fate or probability manipulation is such that you can make yourself always hit your target or dodge something by increasing your chances to 100% on the spot.


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## Riverlia (Jul 12, 2010)

> Well when you stop time, probality can alter. Seeing he can timestop he should be able to dodge as his heart will not exist is the space where the heart has pierced.
> 
> Heart is Pierces the spear is thrusted, but the moment of activation if the heart does not exist is the space time of it originally was what happens?


Doesn't work that way
'pierce the heart' is a fixed cause
'spear is thrust' is only a result for formality's sake because your heart is already pierced.
where your heart is and the trajectory the spear has to follow doesn't matter. 
Even time reversal to before Gae Bolg was used at all didn't work, because the curse was still there.

Ex:
-Lancer thrust Gae Bolg to the ground when using it against Saber, the trajectory automatically altered itself to pierce her heart
-When used against Bazette it snaked around Fragarach's trajectory to reach her heart.




> Time stop is a kind of fate manipultion as stopping time alters probality.


Do you even believe your own words?






> Shiro has plot armor from the gods cuz he got stabbed in the heart with Gae Bolg, TWICE!


Gae Bolg was yanked out in both case though
first time Lancer thought he was dead
the second time, Lancer needed it to fight Gilgamesh, opting to let Saber and Shirou go


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Jul 12, 2010)

Riverlia said:


> Doesn't work that way
> 'pierce the heart' is a fixed cause
> 'spear is thrust' is only a result for formality's sake because your heart is already pierced.
> where your heart is and the trajectory the spear has to follow doesn't matter.
> ...


 The point being that he got stabbed in the heart, he should have logically died, especially the first time.


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