# Warning:  Movie Spoilers! The Joker vs Bane



## Gone (Jul 20, 2012)

1) Which is a better villain?

2) Which fucked up Gotham more?

I havnt seen TDKR yet, going tonight, so apologese if this is a rape thread. Anyway not checking back here till I see the movie, in utter fear of spoilers...


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Jul 20, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> 1) Which is a better villain?
> 
> 2) Which fucked up Gotham more?
> 
> I havnt seen TDKR yet, going tonight, so apologese if this is a rape thread. Anyway not checking back here till I see the movie, in utter fear of spoilers...



1. Joker easily the better villain. It's not even a contest in this category.

2. Bane


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## tashtin (Jul 20, 2012)

1) joker rapes

2) debatable since the the joker fucked up Harvey dent which holds far greater implications for Gotham. Collateral/ structural damage goes to bane.


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## Barioth (Jul 20, 2012)

1)Joker.
2)Bane for the infamous breaking Batman back. Classy.


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## egressmadara (Jul 20, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> 1) Which is a better villain?
> 
> 2) Which fucked up Gotham more?
> 
> I havnt seen TDKR yet, going tonight, so apologese if this is a rape thread. Anyway not checking back here till I see the movie, in utter fear of spoilers...



1. Definitely, unquestionably The Joker.
2. Not sure.....


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## Comic Book Guy (Jul 20, 2012)

Better villain? Depends on what defines better villain.

In terms of motivation, I prefer Joker's over Bane's very human motivation.

In terms of taking down Gotham? Bane easily. Because he had the League of Shadows by his side the whole time.

Joker, to his credit, only needed a few bullets, a few barrels of gasoline, and strung people from the crazy up to the good part of Gotham's mob.

In terms of a fight over Gotham, assuming resources are equal both sides, it'd be Bane's mercenary efficiency vs. Joker's relative unpredictability and back-up planning.

I would give it to Joker, only assuming Bane tries to approach him the same way Batman learned under Ra's: "Criminals aren't complicated."

Also going to add that Bane was aiming to destroy Gotham.

Joker was on a more personal level, breaking people by pushing them past what's moral. Which, done enough, would have culminated to Gotham's collective soul being broken.


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## Bender (Jul 20, 2012)

Joker is a monster 

Bane is the epitome of a genius terrorist

Joker was some street dude who went from nobody to nightmare

Bane was apart of the league of shadows and had training


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## McNasty996 (Jul 20, 2012)

1.) Depends on what defines a villain. Joker wanted to prove that everyone was as bad as he was. Bane simply wanted to break Batman and destroy Gotham.

2.) I'm going with Bane, Joker was more personal while Bane was more wide scale and actually took over for a period of time.


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## puolakanaho (Jul 21, 2012)

1.joker.definedly joker.

2.that is debatable joker did alot of damage in psychological level and caused alot of destruction for gotham but since his motives arent about taking over gotham bane caused more "visible" damage....


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## Chuck (Jul 21, 2012)

Joker is definitely the better villain at least.


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## hammer (Jul 21, 2012)

why did bane lack drugs in the movie


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## McNasty996 (Jul 21, 2012)

hammer said:


> why did bane lack drugs in the movie



He could beat the hell out of Batman without them


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## HiroshiSenju (Jul 21, 2012)

1. Joker. Best DC villain ever written actually 

2. Joker caused a lot of havoc, but Bane fucked up Gotham so badly that he makes what Joker did seem like a milk spill.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Jul 21, 2012)

hammer said:


> why did bane lack drugs in the movie



he didn't pain drugs


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## Doge (Jul 21, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> 1) Which is a better villain?
> 
> 2) Which fucked up Gotham more?
> 
> I havnt seen TDKR yet, going tonight, so apologese if this is a rape thread. Anyway not checking back here till I see the movie, in utter fear of spoilers...



No fear of spoilers?  Very well then.


1.)  Joker, easily.  His motivation was to bring down Gotham and live in a world without rules, showing everyone how evil they are deep down.  Bane and the Ghul lady were just continuing her father's work and are trying to make a "better" world by ridding it of corruption.  His motives are to sane too be a psychopathic and an exceedingly individual villain.  

Basically, Joker is proving what Bane is trying to destroy.  

2.) Probably Bane.  He had access to a nuke, an army of skilled henchmen, plenty of assets, Wayne Enterprises's armory, and many, many more bombs than the Joker did.  Overall, Bane could do more damage than the Joker because he had his powerful organization, a direct link to a board member/overly rich woman, and more firepower.

The Joker practically ran his stunts with a handful of henchmen, gasoline, a trailer with the most powerful weapon being an RPG, and explosives to destroy one hospital.  The Joker was able to come up with all of those resources without a member of Wayne Enterprises, a centuries old organization of assassins, and with lots of insanity.  To be honest, the Joker was out making a fool of the mob/batman and was causing upheaval of the city's mindset.  

If you gave the Joker Bane's resources, Gotham would've destroyed before Batman even returned.  The Joker's attacks where always inventive, low budget, and quite effective.  No telling how far he could go with Bane's kind of firepower/money.


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## Doge (Jul 21, 2012)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> he didn't pain drugs



He's probably talking about the Venom.  You know, the stuff that makes him absurdly strong.


In the movie he's just a pretty ripped dude.  No signs of any super powered upgrades, his biggest strength feat was lifting batman and punching that pillar in his insane rage.


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## masamune1 (Jul 21, 2012)

Al Capone said:


> I would give it to Joker, only assuming Bane tries to approach him the same way Batman learned under Ra's: "Criminals aren't complicated."



Batman tried to deal with him by not resorting to lethal violence. And everyone in the movie, including the Joker and Batman himself, thought that lethal violence would have stopped him. Bane would kill him, and would probably have no problem killing thousands of people to do it as well.

The "criminals aren't complicated" thing led him to underestimate the Joker....initially. He realized very quickly that the Joker was not an ordinary criminal, and still failed to stop him. Its irrelevant as far as this goes- Bane doesn't give a shit one way or the other. And Ra's Al Ghul didn't necessarily think criminals were uncomplicated in the same way Batman did- that is, he didn't necessarily think that they were driven by power and greed. Rather, it was more like he thought their motivations were irrelevant, certainly as far as defeating them goes.


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## Gunners (Jul 21, 2012)

Bane broke Batman's back. 
The Joker killed Robin. 

Even if it was only Jason Todd that's enough for Mr J to collect the win.


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## masamune1 (Jul 21, 2012)

Also anyone have a pic of that scene in No Man's Land where Joker thinks Batman is behind, turns to see its actually Bane, and says "Oh, this is gonna suck".


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## McNasty996 (Jul 21, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> No fear of spoilers?  Very well then.
> 
> 2.) Probably Bane.  He had access to a nuke, an army of skilled henchmen, plenty of assets, Wayne Enterprises's armory, and many, many more bombs than the Joker did.  Overall, Bane could do more damage than the Joker because he had his powerful organization, a direct link to a board member/overly rich woman, and more firepower.
> 
> ...



The thing about that is that the same could be said if he had Joker's mindset. Bane could have just nuked Gotham, his goal was to break Batman. And Joker did have backing, he was backed by the mob until they pulled out once they realized that he wouldn't stop.


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## Majinvergil (Jul 22, 2012)

I'll go with joker for the better villian,


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## shikaigash (Jul 22, 2012)

For me the better villain is the Joker more appealing its not that Bane was bad, not at all, its just Joker is better.

As to who wrecked Gotham up more, I'd go with Bane. Joker was more personal and psychological.

EDIT: Thread needs more Ras Al Gul


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## Gone (Jul 22, 2012)

So finally saw the movie, fucking awesome. Ill throw in my 2 cents now.

1) Joker is so easily the better villain, the only way Bane is superior is that he was actually capable of physically dominating Batman, which the Joker could never do.

2) Bane did more damage, but that may be simply because Batman was MIA or not at his prime when he was doing most of it. If the Joker had free rein on Gotham for 4-5 months with no Batman to stop him, then he might have done a lot worse than Bane.


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## OS (Jul 22, 2012)

These are the movie versions right OP?

Joker was a true definition of villain. He is the ultimate evil of the world. What helped was Heath Ledgers acting which is what made the move joker so cool.

Bane fucked up gotham the most. No contest.


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## Doge (Jul 22, 2012)

McNasty996 said:


> The thing about that is that the same could be said if he had Joker's mindset. Bane could have just nuked Gotham, his goal was to break Batman. *And Joker did have backing, he was backed by the mob until they pulled out once they realized that he wouldn't stop.*



Obviously, Bane had some seriously insane resources.  He had a small army, Wayne's arsenal, and a nuke.

Even with the Mob's money, Joker never showed that kind of resources.  He was able to get away with using gasoline and other explosives that were definitely not on the same level as those Bane used.


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## Gone (Jul 23, 2012)

TDKR ending spoiler


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## McNasty996 (Jul 23, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> Obviously, Bane had some seriously insane resources.  He had a small army, Wayne's arsenal, and a nuke.
> 
> Even with the Mob's money, Joker never showed that kind of resources.  He was able to get away with using gasoline and other explosives that were definitely not on the same level as those Bane used.





So it's Bane's fault that he used his prep to acquire bigger and better things? Joker could have hired an entire army to what he wanted with the piles of cash he received, he simply didn't want to. They both had different plans that led to them needing different resources.


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## Gone (Jul 23, 2012)

McNasty996 said:


> So it's Bane's fault that he used his prep to acquire bigger and better things? Joker could have hired an entire army to what he wanted with the piles of cash he received, he simply didn't want to. They both had different plans that led to them needing different resources.



Except the Joker only used what he needed to accomplish his goals. Remember he had a different end game in mind than Bane.


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## Doge (Jul 23, 2012)

McNasty996 said:


> So it's Bane's fault that he used his prep to acquire bigger and better things? Joker could have hired an entire army to what he wanted with the piles of cash he received, he simply didn't want to. They both had different plans that led to them needing different resources.



I just don't the Joker would've let Gotham survive if he had his own nuclear bomb...

I'm just saying if Joker both used his resources in a more highly destructive goal and had the connections like Bane did, Gotham would be gone.


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## Gone (Jul 23, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> I just don't the Joker would've let Gotham survive if he had his own nuclear bomb...
> 
> I'm just saying if Joker both used his resources in a more highly destructive goal and had the connections like Bane did, Gotham would be gone.



To be fair bane could have destroyed Gotham in the first minut if he wanted to, he could have just detonated the bomb.


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## Id (Jul 23, 2012)

lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> If you gave the Joker Bane's resources, Gotham would've destroyed before Batman even returned.  The Joker's attacks where always inventive, low budget, and quite effective.  No telling how far he could go with Bane's kind of firepower/money.



Not saying your wrong or anything.

But this is the same Joker that lit up a stock pile of cash. He does not need much to get his point across. Frankly he would not know how to use the resources properly. 

But I agree 100% that Jokers ideals are the antithesis to Banes.



Ryjacork said:


> 1) Which is a better villain?



Thats subjective. As both came close to accomplish their goals, despite being completely different from one another. 



Ryjacork said:


> 1) Which is a better villain?
> 
> 2) Which fucked up Gotham more?


Bane wrecked the city. Yet the Joker was able to corrupt Gothan's white knight in Harvey Dent.


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## McNasty996 (Jul 23, 2012)

Ryjacork said:


> Except the Joker only used what he needed to accomplish his goals. Remember he had a different end game in mind than Bane.



Thats what I meant, different goals required different approaches and means



lvl80elitetaurenchieftain said:


> I just don't the Joker would've let Gotham survive if he had his own nuclear bomb...
> 
> I'm just saying if Joker both used his resources in a more highly destructive goal and had the connections like Bane did, Gotham would be gone.



Bane was never going to let Gotham survive. Once again different plans and all that.


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## Gone (Jul 23, 2012)

Am I the only one wondering btw, wtf would have happened if Heath Ledger hadnt died? I mean I know this whole movie probably would have been different since Nolan was planning a different direction before.

But like, how would that have gone down with the Joker still locked up in Arkham when Bane took over?


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## Bluebeard (Jul 23, 2012)

Greater villain was definitely Heath's Joker, but mostly because of the personal threat he offered. However...

In terms of who did the most damage, Bane wins without a contest like the general consenus is in this thread so far. Bane managed to truly break Batman, upheaved Gotham's society, revealed Dent's crimes to the world, and outsmarted Dagget so that he could get greater weapons for his own goals. You have to give the man respect for all of that.


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## Bender (Jul 30, 2012)

masamune1 said:


> Also anyone have a pic of that scene in No Man's Land where Joker thinks Batman is behind, turns to see its actually Bane, and says "Oh, this is gonna suck".



Ask and you shall receive


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