# is there a verse that exists where jiren would be considered fodder tier?



## nyugimon (Jan 27, 2018)

or is he strong enough to at least be low-mid tier in every verse in existence?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 27, 2018)

SMT probably

Reactions: Agree 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Jan 27, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> SMT probably


For the layman?


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## Kurou (Jan 27, 2018)

Shin Megami Tensei

Reactions: Informative 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 28, 2018)

Lmao that bitch Cain negged me for that post 

How fucking salty can you be that someone in DBS isnt hot shit everywhere he goes?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 28, 2018)

Demonbane. Considering the level its at where multiple multiverses explode in one of the characters faces without denting them...

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Nep Heart (Jan 28, 2018)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Lmao that bitch Cain negged me for that post
> 
> How fucking salty can you be that someone in DBS isnt hot shit everywhere he goes?



 He gave me a death threat just now.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Juub (Jan 28, 2018)

Wouldn't he be still fairly strong by SMT standards? He wouldn't be shit to the top-tiers but wouldn't he still be mid to high-tier?


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## Nep Heart (Jan 28, 2018)

Universe level+ is pretty fodder by SMT standards. Low mid tier sounds about right for him to be pegged in the setting.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Friendly 1


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## Nep Heart (Jan 28, 2018)

For the record, SMT might get yet ANOTHER upgrade if my tier revision proposal ever goes through this year.

Reactions: Informative 2 | Optimistic 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 28, 2018)

Ampchu said:


> He gave me a death threat just now.


How much salt can one body contain 


Ampchu said:


> Universe level+ is pretty fodder by SMT standards. Low mid tier sounds about right for him to be pegged in the setting.


pmuch this, theres so many universal to multiversal things that hes almost fodder


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## shade0180 (Jan 28, 2018)

what about digimon?


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 28, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> what about digimon?



Doesn't he beat like 99% of the Digimon?


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 28, 2018)

SMT
Demonbane
So far


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## Demon Eyes Mido (Jan 28, 2018)

Shinza Bansho aka dies irae


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jan 28, 2018)

"fodder" in SMT are demons that can pick up trains

If you're universal you're at the level of late-game world-enders

Sure there are people more powerful than that but that doesn't make people in that tier fodder

Reactions: Agree 1


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## John Wayne (Jan 28, 2018)

He'd be fodder in Umineko too.


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## oiety (Jan 28, 2018)

Suggsverse 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Do yourself a favor and don't look it up if you don't already know of it, seriously

Reactions: Funny 1 | Neutral 1


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## Nep Heart (Jan 28, 2018)

Jiren would be less than lower mid tier in Lovecraft/Cthulhu Mythos for sure.


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## nyugimon (Jan 28, 2018)

oiety said:


> Suggsverse
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



that was on my mind the whole time. above omniversal characters i hear.


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## SSBMonado (Jan 28, 2018)

For Jiren to be fodder tier, your series' power floor would have to be multiverse level, which I can't imagine being a thing. Even fore series like SMT, Pokemon, Digimon, etc which have characters that can beat him, he'd still bitch-make the vast majority of those verses before hitting the tiers that are beyond him


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## Bernkastel (Jan 28, 2018)

Yeah fodder would mean that the lowest ranking/weakest character in a certain verse is above universe+..I doubt there exists such a verse..


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## John Wayne (Jan 28, 2018)

That's only if you classify fodder as the absolute weakest and not just someone who gets stomped by a low mid tier.


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## Nep Heart (Jan 28, 2018)

Yeah, "fodder" is pretty relative, thus, I do commend the OP for at least putting in the effort in defining a general range to classify what level would "fodder" be considered. You got fodder in higher tiers within the same setting at times too.


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## Regicide (Jan 28, 2018)

Bernkastel said:


> Yeah fodder would mean that the lowest ranking/weakest character in a certain verse is above universe+..I doubt there exists such a verse..


Perhaps some kind of gag series where such extreme escalation wouldn't be as impactful, though evaluating such a work in terms of tiers and the like would probably be rather silly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Solar (Jan 28, 2018)

nyugimon said:


> or is he strong enough to at least be low-mid tier in every verse in existence?



Are you saying "low to mid tier" or "a mid tier who is on the lower end"?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blade (Jan 28, 2018)

in TTGL


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## Blade (Jan 28, 2018)

in the whole SRW verse too


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 28, 2018)

My lil bro is into vs debates so I asked him what he thought about this thread. The first response out of his mouth was Saint Seiya

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Juub (Jan 28, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> My lil bro is into vs debates so I asked him what he thought about this thread. The first response out of his mouth was Saint Seiya


Wouldn’t he still be fairly strong by Saint Seiya standards though?


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 28, 2018)

Juub said:


> Wouldn’t he still be fairly strong by Saint Seiya standards though?


No idea, my lil bro just really likes saint seiya


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## shade0180 (Jan 28, 2018)

It really depends on what we mean as a fodder.

 

if we meant generic troop then even universals can be considered as a fodder. 

if we meant the weakest of the verse then it would be harder to find one that would qualify for the thread.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 28, 2018)

What about Dark Tower?


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## nyugimon (Jan 28, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> if we meant generic troop then even universals can be considered as a fodder.



this one.

most verses have some street level human anyway so it'd be impossible for him to be absolute weakest :>.



Haruhi Suzumiya said:


> Are you saying "low to mid tier" or "a mid tier who is on the lower end"?



low to mid tier


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## shade0180 (Jan 28, 2018)

well tenchi muyo should more or less qualify, considering they do have an army of Zinv class production robot (basically low multiversal)

or I could be remembering shit wrong.


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## HouseScarlet (Jan 28, 2018)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> "fodder" in SMT are demons that can pick up trains
> 
> If you're universal you're at the level of late-game world-enders
> 
> Sure there are people more powerful than that but that doesn't make people in that tier fodder



I've played and/or watched most every SMT game, yet I can't recall where that train feat comes from. Care for the details?


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## Iwandesu (Jan 28, 2018)

HouseScarlet said:


> I've played and/or watched most every SMT game, yet I can't recall where that train feat comes from. Care for the details?


On devil survivors some nameless fooders were raving stations iirc.
Doubt this is what Chaos os talking about,tho


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jan 28, 2018)

HouseScarlet said:


> I've played and/or watched most every SMT game, yet I can't recall where that train feat comes from. Care for the details?


Devil Survivor 2, the first fight,  an Obariyon catches a train to save your life


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## Catalyst75 (Jan 28, 2018)

Elric of Melnibone (unless I've only seen the stuff about the high-tier characters in that series).


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## trexalfa (Jan 28, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Elric of Melnibone (unless I've only seen the stuff about the high-tier characters in that series).



This and Lovecraft actually work. For now, I haven't seen anything weaker than Jiren which actually matters in the Elric Saga.


SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Demonbane. Considering the level its at where multiple multiverses explode in one of the characters faces without denting them...





Demon Eyes Mido said:


> Shinza Bansho aka dies irae





John Wayne said:


> He'd be fodder in Umineko too.



Considering these series have characters that go from normal humans, to city level up to planet level, I wouldn't consider Jiren to be fodder _at all. _Same goes for the Dark Tower, not every single character is part of those high ends we so hear about. Hell, Jiren could curbstomp people like Flagg with ease.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 28, 2018)

trexalfa said:


> Considering these series have characters that go from normal humans, to city level up to planet level, I wouldn't consider Jiren to be fodder _at all. _Same goes for the Dark Tower, not every single character is part of those high ends we so hear about. Hell, Jiren could curbstomp people like Flagg with ease.


Though in Demonbane, we have a vast cosmology of beings that can tank multiverses exploding in their faces.


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## trexalfa (Jan 28, 2018)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Though in Demonbane, we have a vast cosmology of beings that can tank multiverses exploding in their faces.



Play Zanma Taisei Pedobane. If you see that in like 99% of the game, call me.


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## Proje (Jan 28, 2018)

I'd wager Pagumki. The end literally pushed creator and creator level into the realm of fodder (honestly, that trend started much early, but the end sealed the deal with it)

Creator gods are low end multiversal


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Jan 29, 2018)

Every verse that I know of has an absolute fodder tier on the level of (ants, camotose humans, wingless penguins etc)...

So, essentially no matter what verse Jiren is put into there is probably a tier below him. Unless there is some verse out there where even the microbes are universal.

However, for a relative fodder tier, I would wager Jiren would only need to be fodder compared to The weakest of the main cast.

Many of the series mentioned in this discussion qualify.


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## Gordo solos (Jan 29, 2018)

Whatever series considers universal “fodder.” Kinda hard to think of one besides retarded series like Suggsverse


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## Atem (Jan 29, 2018)

Catalyst75 said:


> Elric of Melnibone (unless I've only seen the stuff about the high-tier characters in that series).



Bog standard Melniboneans, and mortals are able to go on dream quests. Which means making their dreams, and desires reality to the point they potentially threaten to destroy the entire multiverse. Which in this context consists of an infinite number of megaverses.

Also, Baron Kalan is garbage compared to both Agak and Gagak but nothing in the multiverse can hurt him except the EC. As well as people like the EC, or as powerful as it.


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## Atem (Jan 29, 2018)

However, there are characters he would be more powerful than. Such as people with power rings. They're only capable of messing around with suns, and planets.

Well, unless those people recognize how powerful their souls can be. Since mortals all have the capability to be ludicrously powerful, and they are the ones who create the Grey Fees. It's just a matter of tapping into that which not everyone can do. The ones who can are usually sorcerers like Baron Kalan, or Agak and Gagak who could crush Jiren like a bug.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## John Wayne (Jan 29, 2018)

trexalfa said:


> This and Lovecraft actually work. For now, I haven't seen anything weaker than Jiren which actually matters in the Elric Saga.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More than half the cast of Umineko is above Universe level and the ones that aren't are narrative speaking absolute folders and literally just there to die repeatedly forever to amuse those cast members that are above them.


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## Bad Wolf (Jan 29, 2018)

John Wayne said:


> More than half the cast of Umineko is above Universe level and the ones that aren't are narrative speaking absolute folders and literally just there to die repeatedly forever to amuse those cast members that are above them.


It really depends on how we define "fodder". Generic mass of unnamed monster/people or the weakest of the show? Because goats and cats are in the first group and humans/some demon are in the second


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## Orochibuto (Jan 29, 2018)

I think only Suggs fits the bill, the point is fodder is, well..... fodder.

I cant think of a verse where the average joes are universe+

Even in Umineko witches are like the .01%

Im not sure even Suggs clear it, even in its wankery Im not sure the average joe is universe+


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## Solar (Jan 29, 2018)

nyugimon said:


> low to mid tier



So a verse where he is bottom tier? Then none. Even Suggsverse has ordinary people in it.


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## Galo de Lion (Jan 29, 2018)

Dr Who has races like Swimmers, Lampreys, Chronovores, Eternals and Charons where individual members could solo DBS, in the Swimmers case without even noticing. Chronovores have definately been fodderized by TARDIS's, and are basically tadpoles next to the whales that are Swimmers (and Swimmers also dwarf memovores in power, the latter being universal concept eaters).

Also in TES there are a bunch of cosmic entities that are far beyond DBS. Each star in the sky is a link to a realm in Aetherius created by a being as powerful as Meridia, who is multiversal+, and each star puts out infinite energy into the Mundus. Then there are countless Daedra Lords, ascended mortals and Demi-Princes who can create, sustain and destroy their own pocket-realms (some of which like Maelstrom consist of multiple universes, each of which was made by an aspect of Fa-Nuit-Hen). Fa-Nuit-Hen (a demi-prince) even refers to transcended mortals as pests. All of these beings pale utterly before even the weakest of Princes.


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 29, 2018)

Saint Seiya


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## Proje (Jan 29, 2018)

I think you guys are defining fodder (tier? There is no fodder tier) in a really stringent way.

Being fodder is simply a collection of beings or so incapable of being noticeable to the main characters. You don't have to be below low-tier to be fodder. Even god tier (really hate that tiering) has potential to be fodder.

Counting civilians and non-fighters is a bit silly and I'm appalled they're even being mentioned.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> No idea, my lil bro just really likes saint seiya


A lot of people overhype seiya.
Saying he is fodder tier there is an extrapolation.

He could probably take down Hades and Chronos combined if debated properly

Reactions: Neutral 1 | Disagree 1 | Dislike 3


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people overhype seiya.
> Saying he is fodder tier there is an extrapolation.
> 
> He could probably take down Hades and Chronos combined if debated properly


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## Solar (Jan 29, 2018)

Proje said:


> Being fodder is simply a collection of beings or so incapable of being noticeable to the main characters. You don't have to be below low-tier to be fodder. Even god tier (really hate that tiering) has potential to be fodder.



He's not asking for fodder. OP wanted a series where a casual universal is bottom tier.


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## Arles Celes (Jan 29, 2018)

Jiren yet needs to get truly serious.

Since he is above GoD level then he should be able to destroy more than one universe via one-shoot. His Ki can shake a realm of infinite size and he can resist time itself.

I guess anyone capable of destroying 3 or more universes in an instant should be above him though.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

A lot of people share this opinion. 

The only problem is that the more rabid Seiya fans are dicks who gangs up on somebody for exposing their downplay.

The DBS side are just being very silent. But we share a lot of PMs concerning Seiya wank. Not just in here, but in other forumzls as well.


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## TYPE-Rey (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> But we share a lot of PMs


Really ? So the salt somehow makes all of your periods syncronize ? And then you also share them ? 
God damn, you're into some kinky stuff, you little animals,you...


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## Unlucky13 (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people share this opinion.
> 
> The only problem is that the more rabid Seiya fans are dicks who gangs up on somebody for exposing their downplay.
> 
> The DBS side are just being very silent. But we share a lot of PMs concerning Seiya wank. Not just in here, but in other forumzls as well.


You act like this is a special case, literally every fan group does this. Wankers and downplayers exist in the perception of what counts as wank or downplay. It's called opinions and bias, something everyone has.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people share this opinion.
> 
> The only problem is that the more rabid Seiya fans are dicks who gangs up on somebody for exposing their downplay.
> 
> The DBS side are just being very silent. But we share a lot of PMs concerning Seiya wank. Not just in here, but in other forumzls as well.


That doesnt make it any more or less of "like your opinion man" It all comes down to what the evidence shows and if the evidence shows one thing to be true then what your opinion is becomes nonsensical


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> That doesnt make it any more or less of "like your opinion man" It all comes down to what the evidence shows and if the evidence shows one thing to be true then what your opinion is becomes nonsensical


The problem is thaT dbz evidence isn't really considered actual evidence. Stucc such as logic and physics then comes into account to explain as to why it's just hyperbole.
Take the Jiren transcends time for example. Everybody is downplaying the feat to be just resistance to time hax.
Transcending time = resistance to time hax. I mean how did they come up with the connectiob? There is acruality lesser connexn to it than transcending time and being 4dimensional.

But nobody wants a 4d Jiren coz they are salty. So they throw around physics, logic and bullshit..when by actuality if we go by their logic then by physics their evidence doesn't count as evidence as well.

Faster than time is stupid. Jiren and Goku are not faster than time coz There's no such thing as faster than time....but Flash does it. And Flash is faster than time (even though there's nobsuch thing as)

The bias just keeps on piling.

Transcending time is now "just" time resistance? That's downplaying right there.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Take the Jiren transcends time for example. Everybody is downplaying the feat to be just resistance to time hax.


Resistance to time hax on a universal+ scale. That's what it shows, sorry 


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Transcending time = resistance to time hax. I mean how did they come up with the connectiob? There is acruality lesser connexn to it than transcending time and being 4dimensional.


>using dimensional tiering




creyzi4zb12 said:


> But nobody wants a 4d Jiren coz they are salty. *So they throw around physics, logic and bullshit*..when by actuality if we go by their logic then by physics their evidence doesn't count as evidence as well.





creyzi4zb12 said:


> Faster than time is stupid. Jiren and Goku are not faster than time coz There's no such thing as faster than time....but Flash does it. And Flash is faster than time (even though there's nobsuch thing as)


Flash isn't faster than time. Not Post-Crisis anyway. Pre-Crisis Flash's speed is just immeasurable since he travels infinite speeds in no time and has time traveled casually under his own speed. PC Barry has broken the time barrier countless times so his speed can't be calculated.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Proje (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> The problem is thaT dbz evidence isn't really considered actual evidence. Stucc such as logic and physics then comes into account to explain as to why it's just hyperbole.
> Take the Jiren transcends time for example. Everybody is downplaying the feat to be just resistance to time hax.
> Transcending time = resistance to time hax. I mean how did they come up with the connectiob? There is acruality lesser connexn to it than transcending time and being 4dimensional.
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 








So everyone in Silent Hill is now faster than time?

Hey, I'm fine with that. My girl Cheryl can now steamroll HST.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Resistance to time hax on a universal+ scale. That's what it shows, sorry
> 
> >using dimensional tiering
> 
> ...


Yeah..I'm pretty sure if the statement was done in a Seiya panel then that character would be 4d already.

Remember kids: in saint seiya, there is no such thing as hyperbole.
Infinite universes is legit even thougn logically it doesn't work as shown like that irl.


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## Proje (Jan 29, 2018)

And weaksauce near death Alessa did that whole transcend time shit.

GG best girl. Better than Jiren confirmed.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jan 29, 2018)

Heather kills God and the HST

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Yeah..I'm pretty sure if the statement was done in a Seiya panel then that character would be 4d already.


No we wouldn't because dimensional tiering is bullshit. Unless those dimensions are revealed to be higher levels of infinity then no, it wouldn't matter whatsoever. Try again.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Remember kids: in saint seiya, there is no such thing as hyperbole.
> Infinite universes is legit even thougn logically it doesn't work as shown like that irl.




Saint Seiya is not the only series that has infinite universes. DC, Marvel, Xenogears, SMT, Dark Tower, Cthulhu Mythos, the list goes.


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## Proje (Jan 29, 2018)

That's a good one. I'm gonna save this


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

Proje said:


> That's a good one. I'm gonna save this


Darkness has the best laugh, that sexy bastard


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Saint Seiya is not the only series that has infinite universes. DC, Marvel, Xenogears, SMT, Dark Tower, Cthulhu Mythos, the list goes.


At least I'm gonna admit thag dragonball has hyperbole.
For example: faster than time isn't really true.
There are fans out there more rabid than me who wank the verse to extreme proportions.

The best thing about this is that the salt from the haters are clearly showing from such downplay.

 The high standards of evidence, the sudden splitting of canonicities, the ignoring of statements as bragging, the sudden extrapolation of opposing verses feats when paired up against DBS?

Dragonball fanz brings out the salt in everybody. And it's fun to see you guys trying so hard to make Dragonball the weakest most downplayed verse ever.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> At least I'm gonna admit thag dragonball has hyperbole.
> For example: faster than time isn't really true.
> There are fans out there more rabid than me who wank the verse to extreme proportions.


Yet you regularly agree with the likes of someone like Cain. Yeah, you have no leg to stand on here.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> The best thing about this is that the salt from the haters are clearly showing from such downplay.


You do know most of the OBD does love Dragon Ball. Right? Just because they don't wank Dragon Ball doesn't mean they don't.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> The high standards of evidence, the sudden splitting of canonicities, the ignoring of statements as bragging, the sudden extrapolation of opposing verses feats when paired up against DBS?


That's not new for DBS. DC, Marvel, even Saint Seiya, has that. My favorite all time anime series, Captain Harlock, has that too. Stop pretending like Dragon Ball is so victimized.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Dragonball fanz brings out the salt in everybody. And it's fun to see you guys trying so hard to make Dragonball the weakest most downplayed verse ever.


You know if we all really wanted to, we could throw out those statements about busting universes and downplay Dragon Ball even further but we don't due to how consistent those statements are and that we have precedence of the universe being threatened.

So no, stop pretending like Dragon Ball is all so persecuted because we love Saint Seiya more. Fuck off.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Yet you regularly agree with the likes of someone like Cain. Yeah, you have no leg to stand on here.
> 
> You do know most of the OBD does love Dragon Ball. Right? Just because they don't wank Dragon Ball doesn't mean they don't.
> 
> ...


Dude, you can't disagree with the hate boner part.
There's even one thing I forgot to mention that's very important. Which is the sudden willingness of the fans from opposing side for a debate.

Make a thread about anybody from DBS vs characters like GER, Kami Tenchi, Franklin Richards or a Gold Saint and you'll suddenly have from the side against DBS piling up post after post.

Meanwhile, if you make a thread like GER vs Virgo Shaka then nobody's willing to debate anymore. You get a one to two page (of ur lucky) debate only.

There's just that much hate boner to the DB feats.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Dude, you can't disagree with the hate boner part.
> There's even one thing I forgot to mention that's very important. Which is the sudden willingness of the fans from opposing side for a debate.


Only when fans like you ruin it for everyone. That gives the appearance of us hating DBS. Come join my discord sometime. Lots of OBD members get excited when a new DBS episode drops. I can even post quotes from there about how DBS keeps burying RWBY over and over again. Or you can go ask people that are in it. Drop the persecution complex.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Make a thread about anybody from DBS vs characters like GER, Kami Tenchi, Franklin Richards or a Gold Saint and you'll suddenly have from the side against DBS piling up post after post.


Are you implying that DBS is stronger than all of those verses 


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Meanwhile, if you make a thread like GER vs Virgo Shaka then nobody's willing to debate anymore. You get a one to two page (of ur lucky) debate only.


Because it's obvious. Saint Seiya fans know that GER can give Saint Seiya trouble for a lot of its characters. DBS fanboys on the other hand do not. That's fucking why.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> There's just that much hate boner to the DB feats.


Then explain why there's a DBS Feats Thread in the Meta Battledome? One that went on for over 600 pages. Aside from like Mafia posts, no other Meta post gets that long.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 29, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Only when fans like you ruin it for everyone. That gives the appearance of us hating DBS. Come join my discord sometime. Lots of OBD members get excited when a new DBS episode drops. I can even post quotes from there about how DBS keeps burying RWBY over and over again. Or you can go ask people that are in it. Drop the persecution complex.
> 
> Are you implying that DBS is stronger than all of those verses
> 
> ...


A lot of people probably love dbs more than hate it. There's just not that much of them willing to debate.

Seriously, Dragonball is probably the most downplayed verse there is...even befire Super came out.
Just go to youtube and type in dragonball debunked or explained (to downplay) then you'll see tons of stuff there dedicated to feat downplay. You don't see that much vindication against Saint Seiya or other verses.

Also: half of what you said doesn't even address my concerns properly.


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## Solar (Jan 29, 2018)

OBD using higher levels of infinity.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people probably love dbs more than hate it. There's just not that much of them willing to debate.


96% of the OBD in general loves DBS but hates the wankers. This is not a hard concept to wrap your mind around.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> Seriously, Dragonball is probably the most downplayed verse there is...even befire Super came out.
> Just go to youtube and type in dragonball debunked or explained (to downplay) then you'll see tons of stuff there dedicated to feat downplay. You don't see that much vindication against Saint Seiya or other verses.


Because virtually nobody in English speaking countries knows about Saint Seiya or cares for it. Also? Superman gets shat on a lot on youtube and the web in general. Probably just as much as Dragon Ball because of Death Battle and the fact that Superman has always had people disliking him because of asinine reasons.

Plus @trexalfa and @MatthewSchroeder can attest that there's plenty of Saint Seiya downplay in Spanish and Portuguese speaking communities. You aren't looking hard enough.


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## MatthewSchroeder (Jan 29, 2018)

People in Brazil tend to think that Planet-level feats in Episode G are absurd.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## trexalfa (Jan 29, 2018)

MatthewSchroeder said:


> People in Brazil tend to think that Planet-level feats in Episode G are absurd.



People in Latin American countries think God Cloth Seiya is building level

Reactions: Funny 3


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## EGSage (Jan 29, 2018)

Roof level Gold Saints too

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 29, 2018)

EGSage said:


> Roof level Gold Saints too


A classic

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jasongtrturbo (Jan 30, 2018)

7


creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people share this opinion.
> 
> The only problem is that the more rabid Seiya fans are dicks who gangs up on somebody for exposing their downplay.
> 
> The DBS side are just being very silent. But we share a lot of PMs concerning Seiya wank. Not just in here, but in other forumzls as well.


I agree with u on this matter...when god toppo is out everyone still downplaying him and said even toriko can stomp him lol...might aswell say yhwach can solo dbs also then


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## Orochibuto (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people overhype seiya.
> Saying he is fodder tier there is an extrapolation.
> 
> He could probably take down Hades and Chronos combined if debated properly



Okay you went WAY over the top. Hades and Cronus combined? Get that shit out of here.

I do think however that SS IS overhyped here.

This is the only vs forum I have seen (as far as I remember) that have golds at universal.

Though not only SS, I think this forum gives a lot of leeway to series that are considered "quality", while series considered trash are inspected with an atomic microscope or even just refused to debate.

But honestly, it is claims like yours that gives this situation fuel.

When the opposition claims super ridiculous shit like "Jiren can beat Hades and Cronus combined", all that is needed is to parade this around to laugh off any opinion that puts DB at SS levels.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> This is the only vs forum I have seen (as far as I remember) that have golds at universal.


Cept they are


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## Orochibuto (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Cept they are



Maybe they are. I just find it odd that this is the only place where it is claimed. I couldnt argue it because I only know about the main story and not stuff like G.


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## Orochibuto (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> A lot of people share this opinion.
> 
> The only problem is that the more rabid Seiya fans are dicks who gangs up on somebody for exposing their downplay.
> 
> The DBS side are just being very silent. But we share a lot of PMs concerning Seiya wank. Not just in here, but in other forumzls as well.



Dont you think its your fault, then?

If you remain silent about an issue, you guys cant complain.

If you believe a series you like is being mistreated, it is your call to go and defend it. And if you dont and DB gets eventually turned into planet level (and believe me, such a downplay is possible going by what I have seen in other forums), then it is planet level in that forum and no one is to blame but you.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Other forums treat G and the classic as separate continuities.


That’s silly. G is a prequel to Classic, written by Kurumada and Okada. The official Saint Seiya website even puts it in the Classic timeline.

Reactions: Like 3 | Disagree 1


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> 96% of the OBD



it's 99% 

true facts

believe me

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> it's 99%
> 
> true facts
> 
> believe me


I was being generous


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Unfortunately it doesn’t extend to LC or Omega.



yeah

but they follow a lot of the classic formula battle wise and story wise

it's just it was retcon'd thanks to Next Dimension

90% of the LC strong characters are MFTL+ and range from solar system level+ up to at least multi galaxy level+/universal

same with Omega which follows the anime continuity though


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> yeah
> 
> but they follow a lot of the classic formula battle wise and story wise
> 
> ...


Manlygoldo


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Manlygoldo



Deuteros, Aspros, ManlyGoldo, El Cid and Kardia = the GOAT Gold LC Saints

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Rasgado is badass too

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> Rasgado is badass too


Albafica for coolest Pisces Saint


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Albafica for coolest Pisces Saint



actually, it's true 

also 

Fudo > Asmita > Shaka


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> actually, it's true
> 
> also
> 
> Fudo > Asmita > Shaka


All the Virgos were cool but not Gemini cool


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> All the Virgos were cool but not Gemini cool



Fudo should had been the Gemini Saga of Omega

he had all the fucking package 

not those twin dumb hoes

Reactions: Funny 1


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## shade0180 (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> A classic



people in the Philippines barely even know seiya.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> Fudo should had been the Gemini Saga of Omega
> 
> he had all the fucking package
> 
> not those twin dumb hoes


Fudo was carrying the weight of both Cloths.

Those two thots were just cosplaying

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Those two thots were just cosplaying



They were the Cauli and Kale of SS Omega

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> They were the Cauli and Kale of SS Omega


Fudo was the Hit of SS Omega


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## Qinglong (Jan 30, 2018)

Gemini Cosplay cloth

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Fudo was the Hit of SS Omega



Kouga was the Yamcha of SS Omega who was given the role of protagonist though

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> Kouga was the Yamcha of SS Omega who was given the role of protagonist though


Jiren and Harbinger would make for a good tagteam


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## HouseScarlet (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> A classic



Small Car level Jason Voorhees vs. a Roof level Gold Saint when?


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

HouseScarlet said:


> Small Car level Jason Voorhees vs. a Roof level Gold Saint when?


Jason will have to contend with rock level Kanon


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Dont you think its your fault, then?
> 
> If you remain silent about an issue, you guys cant complain.
> 
> If you believe a series you like is being mistreated, it is your call to go and defend it. And if you dont and DB gets eventually turned into planet level (and believe me, such a downplay is possible going by what I have seen in other forums), then it is planet level in that forum and no one is to blame but you.


Yeah it probably is our fault.

It doesn't really matter. It's just funny seing the Seiya fans sound so desperate.

 I mean, they do sound desperate to the point where they even pretend to be dragonball fans (even if they are not).


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Yeah it probably is our fault.


It is because you side with the likes of Cain.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> It doesn't really matter. It's just funny seing the Seiya fans sound so desperate.


And you aren’t? You always mention Saint Seiya and go into a huge persecution complex.


creyzi4zb12 said:


> I mean, they do sound desperate to the point where they even pretend to be dragonball fans (even if they are not).


You’re the same numbnuts that thought Ampchu was a fake fan because he didn’t wank Dragon Ball. I can turn that back on you, wanker.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Iwandesu (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> than transcending time and being 4dimensional.


there is no such thing as dimensional tiering lol.
We don't call Aspros 4dimensional despite he being able to transcende time and dimensions.
Do you know what aspros did ?
Literally managed to keep existincing on a dimension that was void of time and matter, where everything that entered got annihilated at quantum level.
And we just say he can "resist time hax".
Your despair at grasping at straws is beyond the concept of sad

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 30, 2018)

I again reiterate that I dont consider the OBD to be unbiased, at all.

But if anything, I am surprised at the level of restraint and cool head mantained by the OBD with DBS, to not use Frieza's latest "This can destroy a planet!", Dyspo's lightspeed or a few episodes ago where they made a huge deal out of a guy (I dont remember if Dyspo or the police) going supersonic to downplay THE SHIT out of DBS.

If this was the 2005-2010 OBD this would had likely caused a push to roll DBS back to multi galaxy or even multi solar system with the exception of Zeno.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> But if anything, I am surprised at the level of restraint and cool head mantained by the OBD with DBS, to not use Frieza's latest "This can destroy a planet!", Dyspo's lightspeed or a few episodes ago where they made a huge deal out of a guy (I dont remember if Dyspo or the police) going supersonic to downplay THE SHIT out of DBS.


Feats > statements afterall


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> I again reiterate that I dont consider the OBD to be unbiased, at all.
> 
> But if anything, I am surprised at the level of restraint and cool head mantained by the OBD with DBS, to not use Frieza's latest "This can destroy a planet!", Dyspo's lightspeed or a few episodes ago where they made a huge deal out of a guy (I dont remember if Dyspo or the police) *going supersonic* to downplay THE SHIT out of DBS.
> 
> If this was the 2005-2010 OBD this would had likely caused a push to roll DBS back to multi galaxy or even multi solar system with the exception of Zeno.


That never happened with dyspo nor katopelsa
Dyspo light speed  thing was a mistranlation stated by herms due to the kanji of high speed being close to light speed in Japanese
Plus freeza thing was freeza suffering brain damage and being severely weekend from toppo attack 
Connect the dots man

Reactions: Like 1


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## Orochibuto (Jan 30, 2018)

Claudio Swiss said:


> That never happened with dyspo nor katopelsa
> Dyspo light speed  thing was a mistranlation stated by herms due to the kanji of high speed being close to light speed in Japanese
> Plus freeza thing was freeza suffering brain damage and being severely weekend from toppo attack
> Connect the dots man



I didn't knew about the Kanji shit. Still what Frieza said still stands, he considered a planet attack to be enough to harm a God of Destruction. Yes, I know it makes no sense and I agree with you, I think it should not be considered at all.

I am just pointing out how if there was really an anti-DB bias, the OBD would abuse the shit out of stuff like what Frieza said.


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## Louis Cyphre (Jan 30, 2018)

Juub said:


> Wouldn't he be still fairly strong by SMT standards? He wouldn't be shit to the top-tiers but wouldn't he still be mid to high-tier?


There are quite literally an infinite number being as strong as Jiren (possibly stronger) across reality.
If this isn't fodder then nothing is.


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 30, 2018)

You bring up Saint Seiya one fucking time... All i did was basically reiterate what my lil bro had said. Jesus christ

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Claudio Swiss (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> I didn't knew about the Kanji shit. Still what Frieza said still stands, he considered a planet attack to be enough to harm a God of Destruction. Yes, I know it makes no sense and I agree with you, I think it should not be considered at all.
> 
> I am just pointing out how if there was really an anti-DB bias, the OBD would abuse the shit out of stuff like what Frieza said.


It's was his mode being called light speed never his speed


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

inb4 people actually believe that Dirty Dyspo is only light speed levels 

> taking into account literally the name of his mode as part of his speed?

ODC at it's finest

Reactions: Funny 2


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 30, 2018)

Masterblack06 said:


> You bring up Saint Seiya one fucking time... All i did was basically reiterate what my lil bro had said. Jesus christ


It's not ur lil bro that's the problem. It's the more intellectual fans that is...

Okay. I won't I'll give another verse that's highly extrapolated.
Jojo verse. I mean, the standards of evidence applied in them are ridiculously easy.
You have people from debates using wiki pages as proof.

Characters like GER have been extrapolated in the wiki, using statements that don't even appear in the manga.

And moving while time was erased equates to infinite speed now? Where is the logic in that?
Well Whis mas moving while time was erased (rewinded), so I guess that makes him in his bubble have infinite speed now as well?

GER's statsheet says it can turn actions or will to zero. So suddenly he can turn "anything" to zero?
Action, will, death =/= anything/cause and effect? (manga says action and will while wiki extrapolated it to anything)


And everybody is saying GER caps at universal+ before (no way he's touching somebody who transcends time/space)....except if he's paired against dragonball his feats suddenly becomes NLF.

So Jiren transcends time and is universal+, does this mean he doesn't affected by GER? No it doesn't...because reasons (hax is different, there's no relation to time resist to rewinding actions even though it includes time)

So Whis in his bubble protects anybody inside from time " rewind".....does that meN he doesn't get affected by GER's " rewind" as well? No...because reasons.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Blade (Jan 30, 2018)

shut up

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## Masterblack06 (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> It's not ur lil bro that's the problem. It's the more intellectual fans that is...
> 
> Okay. I won't I'll give another verse that's highly extrapolated.
> Jojo verse. I mean, the standards of evidence applied in them are ridiculously easy.
> ...

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 30, 2018)

Blade said:


> shut the fuck up



Have a like.


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## Unlucky13 (Jan 30, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Have a like.


Hey, if that’s your perception and opinion than it is what it is. Now getting people to agree with you, that’s another story. So if you stick around a forum or group who share your views than their you have it, you have found like minded people. Now if you try to shove your opinion and perception on others while trying to take some type of high ground by saying “DB is downplayed a lot” and act like some kind of victim, that’s the problem. And no shit popular series are downplayed and wanked by different people. DB ain’t special in that regards.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## NooksBrigade (Jan 30, 2018)

Higurashi/Umineko Universe (Multiverse+)

Jiren (Universal by scaling) should be mid-tier compared to the common witches and angels. But should be strong enough to conquer one of the weaker universes/kakera on the same scale of universe 7 in DBS.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Jan 30, 2018)

Also..Jiren batted away a mind fuck attack (light of love) like it was an annoyance. Other Super characters also were able to resist while getting hit by it.

Guess we can scale such resistance to universal mind fuckery now.

We've got plenty of dragonball characters showing displays of mind fuck resist.
Gohan and Krillin fighting on a mental plane. 

Vegeta resisting Babidi's mind control.

Then the light of love.

DB just doesn't get any love when it comes to resistance to hax.
I guess you just hate DB that much that such evidence is not enough tp resist for you huh?

You know I'm talking to you DB powerscaling hater.


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## Bad Wolf (Jan 30, 2018)

NooksBrigade said:


> Jiren (Universal by scaling) should be mid-tier compared to the common witches and angels. But should be strong enough to conquer one of the weaker universes/kakera on the same scale of universe 7 in DBS.


Common witches are multiversal level from what the story shows, Evatrice and Virgilia are at that level like beatrice, they are good witches but only Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and Featherine are way better than regular witches.
I think the only one which is just universal is Maria but she's more an apprentice with good potential than a true witch.
Anyway, we know that there're many witches but we don't know how many/how strong they really are, I won't really put them in the fodder level, goats fit way better


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## NooksBrigade (Jan 30, 2018)

Bad Wolf said:


> Common witches are multiversal level from what the story shows, Evatrice and Virgilia are at that level like beatrice, they are good witches but only Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and Featherine are way better than regular witches.
> I think the only one which is just universal is Maria but she's more an apprentice with good potential than a true witch.
> Anyway, we know that there're many witches but we don't know how many/how strong they really are, I won't really put them in the fodder level, goats fit way better



Right! Forgot a few things (had to look at the wiki...)

Beato alone is multiverse level, while Bern and Lambda are hyperversal (Tier-1A). 

So it should be something like this:

Jiren/Bernkastel's Goats/Battler (Universal)

Common Witches/Beatrice/ Angels (Metaversal)

Voyager Witches/ Bernkastel/ Lambdadelta (Hyperversal)

Featherine Aurora (Hyperversal+)


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Okay you went WAY over the top. Hades and Cronus combined? Get that shit out of here.
> 
> I do think however that SS IS overhyped here.
> 
> ...



There is alot of bias everywhere here isn't in any way the exception, nonethless it's perfectly normal, try to go to the Superman section of Comicvine and there will still be fanboys claiming Post-crisis Supes can still beat Goku regardless of his new Universal feats some of them go as far as claiming is Supes is universal also to a higher level than Goku, this was similar years ago when MVC was alive but the other way around.

I have heard alot of dumb things here like Universal pre-crisis Plastic-Man or Universal post-crisis Wonder woman among other things, or my favorite one FTL Mr. Fantastic I remember this one because I was getting downvoted and people claiming I was a Luffy wanker even though I really don't care for One Piece.

Basically every VS site has their pet verses here is no exception.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> I have heard alot of dumb things here like Universal pre-crisis Plastic-Man


Cept he is


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Cept he is



Stop wanking


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> Stop wanking


How about you stop ignoring the powerscaling?

Besides, Plastic Man was able to keep up with Elastic Lad that took a punch from PC Superman to the face 

Oh and his speed is equal to Ralph Dibny who was able to keep up with Flash's speed


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> How about you stop ignoring the powerscaling?
> 
> Besides, Plastic Man was able to keep up with Elastic Lad that took a punch from PC Superman to the face
> 
> Oh and his speed is equal to Ralph Dibny who was able to keep up with Flash's speed



How about you use logic, you are using powerscalling in one if not the most inconsistent era in comics history, the fact that you are trying to pass PM as having strenght that rivals Superman and Speed that makes him hang with the Flash is outright stupid, if we use this kind of logic every PC character would have the same stats.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> How about you use logic, you are using powerscalling in one if not the most inconsistent era in comics history, the fact that you are trying to pass PM as having strenght that rivals Superman and Speed that makes him hang with the Flash is outright stupid, if we use this kind of logic every PC character would have the same stats.


Lots of superhumans back in that day were pretty ridiculous. You seem to forget just how stupidly insane the Pre-Crisis era.

OBD goes by feats and Plas has more than enough feats and accolades to let him hang with Supes and Flash. Your incredulity doesn't matter


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Lots of superhumans back in that day were pretty ridiculous. You seem to forget just how stupidly insane the Pre-Crisis era.
> 
> OBD goes by feats and Plas has more than enough feats and accolades to let him hang with Supes and Flash. Your incredulity doesn't matter



That's my point though...

PM doesn't have any universal feats, the claims that he is Universal comes from faulty powerscalling, like "he punched this guy, who punched this other guy, who could wobble Superman, so obviously he is universal"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> PM doesn't have any universal feats, the claims that he is Universal comes from faulty powerscalling, like "he punched this guy, who punched this other guy, who could wobble Superman, so obviously he is universal"


He doesn't need them. Just being able to not get mushed by characters that are universal show that he is let alone being comparable to them.

If you wanna go there, a lot of DBS wouldn't be universal


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> He doesn't need them. Just being able to not get mushed by characters that are universal show that he is let alone being comparable to them.
> 
> If you wanna go there, a lot of DBS wouldn't be universal



But that has to do mostly because he is basically indestructible but either way I don't want to derail the thread more than it should, I'm pretty sure I already had this conversation here before

FYI: There are many characters from DBS who I don't think they're universal, even though here they are seen as that, for the same reasons I give PM, hell my favorite character Hulk has legit universal feats and I ignore them or see them as outliers.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> But that has to do mostly because he is basically indestructible but either way I don't want to derail the thread more than it should, I'm pretty sure I already had this conversation here before


Yeah and everyone laughed at you. Just as everyone already is. It's unanimous among the OBD that PC Plas is universal+. Deal with it 


Worldbreaker said:


> FYI: There are many characters from DBS who I don't think they're universal, even though here they are seen as that, for the same reasons I give PM, hell my favorite character Hulk has legit universal feats and I ignore them or see them as outliers.


Here's the thing though. PC Plas fighting with universal characters and being compared to them is consistent. He has some stupid low ends but if you're going to tell me PC Plas is below bullet level or is weak to a burning newspaper, we'll laugh at you even harder


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Yeah and everyone laughed at you. Just as everyone already is. It's unanimous among the OBD that PC Plas is universal+. Deal with it
> 
> Here's the thing though. PC Plas fighting with universal characters and being compared to them is consistent. He has some stupid low ends but if you're going to tell me PC Plas is below bullet level or is weak to a burning newspaper, we'll laugh at you even harder



Not really, I was pretty sure it was only you and me discussing this, and when I asked you for proof of your claims you didn't provide them because "You didn't trust me" also not because the OBD accepted something it means it's legit, here it was accepted FTL Reed Richards and everyone was telling me I was a downplayer.

I don't think he is bullet level I do think he is strong just not universal or comparable with Supes or Flash (at least in DC capacity and speed) and I don't remember the newspaper thing but PM is weak to heat so him losing to that newspaper has some logic behind it and it goes back to what I said before, Hulk also has Universal feats and has fought guys who are universal but I don't put him at that level because it's just not logical.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> Not really, I was pretty sure it was only you and me discussing this, and when I asked you for proof of your claims you didn't provide them because "You didn't trust me" also not because the OBD accepted something it means it's legit, here it was accepted FTL Reed Richards and everyone was telling me I was a downplayer.


I had a good reason for doing that. Because you're going to go Xcano on me and pick out lowends and ignore all the times Plastic Man has been compared to JLA members or took them on. Yeah, trust you of all people that's a good one 


Worldbreaker said:


> I don't think he is bullet level I do think he is strong just not universal or comparable with Supes or Flash (at least in DC capacity and speed) and I don't remember the newspaper thing but PM is weak to heat so him losing to that newspaper has some logic behind it and it goes back to what I said before, Hulk also has Universal feats and has fought guys who are universal but I don't put him at that level because it's just not logical.


Except it doesn't. Him losing to that flaming newspaper is absolutely dumb when it took scientists thinking up superweapons just to put the guy down. You're telling me a superheated laser is comparable to a flaming newspaper? Get outta here.

Also Hulk's universal feats are bunk since his highest showing in his strongest form was solar system level. Any higher and that's an outlier. PC Plas doesn't have that going against him


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I had a good reason for doing that. Because you're going to go Xcano on me and pick out lowends and ignore all the times Plastic Man has been compared to JLA members or took them on. Yeah, trust you of all people that's a good one
> 
> Except it doesn't. Him losing to that flaming newspaper is absolutely dumb when it took scientists thinking up superweapons just to put the guy down. You're telling me a superheated laser is comparable to a flaming newspaper? Get outta here.
> 
> Also Hulk's universal feats are bunk since his highest showing in his strongest form was solar system level. Any higher and that's an outlier. PC Plas doesn't have that going against him



I never use low ends except to make jokes, if you think I have used a low end as a legit claim go ahead show me i'll wait.

Again this are comics from the pre-crisis era they just don't make sense lol, either way in comics the authors just exploit weaknesses and just go for it for the sake of the story you're not suppose to think to much into it, it's the same with the simbiotes that are weak to sound and heat, we see them tanking weapons created to beat them but they are afraid of newspapers on fire, even other villains make fun of venom and say that he's lame. Of course PM doesn't have that going for him, he has no space cheese feats lol.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> I never use low ends except to make jokes, if you think I have used a low end as a legit claim go ahead show me i'll wait.


You thought Plas losing to a fucking newspaper was legit. Sure you don't use low ends 


Worldbreaker said:


> Again this are comics from the pre-crisis era they just don't make sense lol, either way in comics the authors just exploit weaknesses and just go for it for the sake of the story you're not suppose to think to much into it,


Except it makes literally zero sense even in Pre-Crisis. Superweapons are used to take Plas down consistently and yet one time, he gets taken down by something astronomically lower than those superweapons and somehow that isn't PIS? Yeah, I call bullshit.


Worldbreaker said:


> it's the same with the simbiotes that are weak to sound and heat, we see them tanking weapons created to beat them


Symbiotes are different in that they regularly job to those things. Plas only ever jobbed once to something that dumb. Besides, I remember Symbiotes having better resistance feats anyways.


Worldbreaker said:


> but they are afraid of newspapers on fire, even other villains make fun of venom and say that he's lame. Of course PM doesn't have that going for him, he has no space cheese feats lol.


He doesn't need those crazy feats. He has accolades of being JLA level which is good enough. He's also in the same ballpark as Elastic Lad and Elongated Man who have some crazy feats. The three of them were equal and there's nothing to contradict that they weren't.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> You thought Plas losing to a fucking newspaper was legit. Sure you don't use low ends



I didn't though, I even claimed I don't remember reading that, I was just trying to find logic behind it, basically the author exploiting his weakness to heat.



> Except it makes literally zero sense even in Pre-Crisis. Superweapons are used to take Plas down consistently and yet one time, he gets taken down by something astronomically lower than those superweapons and somehow that isn't PIS? Yeah, I call bullshit.



Dude are you even reading? I am claiming that they don't make sense and that it's PIS, I am saying it's basically only happening because of the story.



> Symbiotes are different in that they regularly job to those things. Plas only ever jobbed once to something that dumb. Besides, *I remember Symbiotes having better resistance feats anyways.*



That's what I said...



> He doesn't need those crazy feats. He has accolades of being JLA level which is good enough. He's also in the same ballpark as Elastic Lad and Elongated Man who have some crazy feats. *The three of them were equal* and there's nothing to contradict that they weren't.


I never said they weren't equal though...


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> I didn't though, I even claimed I don't remember reading that, I was just trying to find logic behind it, basically the author exploiting his weakness to heat.


Except it's pretty clearly PIS because there's only ever been one jobbing instance there. Plas has needed way more than that to take him down.


Worldbreaker said:


> Dude are you even reading? I am claiming that they don't make sense and that it's PIS, I am saying it's basically only happening because of the story.


Which we throw out as PIS for a reason.


Worldbreaker said:


> That's what I said...


So you agree those instances are PIS and should never be mentioned? Good.


Worldbreaker said:


> I never said they weren't equal though...


And yet you want to say their feats, which are consistent, don't count because you don't want to believe they're close to the PC JLA? Yeah, your argument has no legs here. At all.

Especially not when the likes of Immortal Watchdog, Blade, Sir Jogga, Matthew Schroeder and more where that came from agree with me. The only people who agree with you are idiots on CharacterRant


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Except it's pretty clearly PIS because there's only ever been one jobbing instance there. Plas has needed way more than that to take him down.
> 
> Which we throw out as PIS for a reason.
> 
> So you agree those instances are PIS and should never be mentioned? Good.


I never brought out the low ends in the first place, that was you claiming I would use them lol



> And yet you want to say their feats, which are consistent, don't count because you don't want to believe they're close to the PC JLA? Yeah, your argument has no legs here. At all.


None of them have universal feats either, or even come close to Supes feats that just have the same faulty powerscalling I was mentioning in the first place.



> Especially not when the likes of Immortal Watchdog, Blade, Sir Jogga, Matthew Schroeder and more where that came from agree with me. The only people who agree with you are idiots on CharacterRant



I don't really care who agrees with you though, hell that was my point in the first place when I quoted the first guy that every site already has made up their mind for something and if you go against it, you are going to look badly. Hell if the guys you are mentioning are like Immortal watchdog, I wouldn't listen to them especially in a DBS debate, since he clearly has an insane bias against DB just because his past experiences.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> I never brought out the low ends in the first place, that was you claiming I would use them lol


Because you've wanked Hulk in the past and downplayed lots of comic characters repeatedly. Yeah you're completely trustworthy.


Worldbreaker said:


> None of them have universal feats either, or even come close to Supes feats that just have the same faulty powerscalling I was mentioning in the first place.


Except it isn't faulty when it's consistent. You don't need AoE to be higher than your range allows you to be. Guyver is continental but his range is pretty small. Like a km with his Mega Smasher. Nowhere close to continental but due to powerscaling with Neo ZX-Tole's feat, he is. It works just fine for Guyver, should work fine for the Stretchy Trio.


Worldbreaker said:


> I don't really care who agrees with you though, hell that was my point in the first place when I quoted the first guy that every site already has made up their mind for something and if you go against it, you are going to look badly. Hell if the guys you are mentioning are like Immortal watchdog, I wouldn't listen to them especially in a DBS debate, since he clearly has an insane bias against DB just because his past experiences.


Dude Immortal Watchdog has admitted that he does love DB although he's not fond of DBS. He just doesn't like idiot fans. More than that? The mere fact you still don't have an argument other than incredulity goes to show you've got literally nothing. What's more likely? That the Stretchy Trio or that having years worth of feats being on par with the JLA is bullshit? It must be the latter because you say so


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## Atem (Jan 30, 2018)

You can probably just end this by posting a lot of Plastic Man feats.

Since the main problem with this guy seems to be that he thinks there is nothing justifying the power scaling. Get a few that do, and I think that will convince him.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Elric of Melniboné said:


> You can probably just end this by posting a lot of Plastic Man feats.
> 
> Since the main problem with this guy seems to be that he thinks there is nothing justifying the power scaling. Get a few that do, and I think that will convince him.


I've been thinking of posting a Plastic Man respect thread but given how much time it took me to find those feats is gonna be just as grueling for me to catalog them.

And to catalog even more characters? Just no.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Because you've wanked Hulk in the past and downplayed lots of comic characters repeatedly. Yeah you're completely trustworthy.


I never wanked Hulk, hell in this site I had to argue he was above mountain level in his standard green form lol



> Except it isn't faulty when it's consistent. You don't need AoE to be higher than your range allows you to be. Guyver is continental but his range is pretty small. Like a km with his Mega Smasher. Nowhere close to continental but due to powerscaling with Neo ZX-Tole's feat, he is. It works just fine for Guyver, should work fine for the Stretchy Trio.


I am aware of AoE it's just that the idea of the elastic guys comparing in strenght with Supes is just plain dumb.



> Dude Immortal Watchdog has admitted that he does love DB although he's not fond of DBS. He just doesn't like idiot fans. More than that? The mere fact you still don't have an argument other than incredulity goes to show you've got literally nothing. What's more likely? That the Stretchy Trio or that having years worth of feats being on par with the JLA is bullshit? It must be the latter because you say so


He can admit all he wants it doesn't mean he doesn't downplay the series, again the idea that you think they are on par with the JLA top dogs in strenght power is just laughable.



Elric of Melniboné said:


> You can probably just end this by posting a lot of Plastic Man feats.
> 
> Since the main problem with this guy seems to be that he thinks there is nothing justifying the power scaling. Get a few that do, and I think that will convince him.



That's kinda what I want just a clear feat but he doesn't "trust me"


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> I never wanked Hulk, hell in this site I had to argue he was above mountain level in his standard green form lol


Uh huh sure you haven't.


Worldbreaker said:


> I am aware of AoE it's just that the idea of the elastic guys comparing in strenght with Supes is *just plain dumb.*


Argument from Incredulity.


Worldbreaker said:


> He can admit all he wants it doesn't mean he doesn't downplay the series, again the idea that you think they are on par with the JLA top dogs in strenght power is just laughable.


How about the fact that fucking Superman needed help from the Stretchy Trio to take down a menace he couldn't take solo? That's pretty clear fucking cut there.

Also? Watchdog was being cautious about DBS since it doesn't have a lot of universal feats but a fuckload of statements. Wonder what that reminds me of? 


Worldbreaker said:


> That's kinda what I want just a clear feat but he doesn't "trust me"





Worldbreaker said:


> I am aware of AoE it's just that the idea of the elastic guys comparing in strenght with Supes is *just plain dumb.*


And you wonder why I don't. Even if I did show you, you wouldn't accept it because the idea is just dumb. Get out.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> Uh huh sure you haven't.
> 
> Argument from Incredulity.
> 
> ...



ok dude if you don't trust me and don't want to show proof of your claims leave it at that

PS: the debate with watchdog was when DBS had feats so...


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> ok dude if you don't trust me and don't want to show proof of your claims leave it at that


I did and you didn't accept them then so why would you now? Especially when the idea of universal stretchy guys is "dumb."


Worldbreaker said:


> PS: the debate with watchdog was when DBS had feats so...


DBS to this day still has very few actual concrete feats. There's a lot of powerscaling and statements thrown around and that's fine but Watchdog was being more conservative than I was.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I did and you didn't accept them then so why would you now? Especially when the idea of universal stretchy guys is "dumb."
> 
> DBS to this day still has very few actual concrete feats. There's a lot of powerscaling and statements thrown around and that's fine but Watchdog was being more conservative than I was.



Like I said if you don't want to post them just leave it at that, it isn't like this is a PM debate in the first place.

But he was outright against DB, just because the past, people were calling out his bias.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> Like I said if you don't want to post them just leave it at that, it isn't like this is a PM debate in the first place.
> 
> But he was outright against DB, just because the past, people were calling out his bias.


I really don't want to at the moment. Maybe when I get off my lazy ass to do a Stretchy Trio Respect Thread I'll do it.

Actually read his posts. He was against the wankers. Just like anyone should be.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I really don't want to at the moment. Maybe when I get off my lazy ass to do a Stretchy Trio Respect Thread I'll do it.
> 
> Actually read his posts. He was against the wankers. Just like anyone should be.



Dude he was bringing non-canon statements to make his point on how ureliable the series is, come on...


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Worldbreaker said:


> Dude he was bringing non-canon statements to make his point on how ureliable the series is, come on...


Which it can be at times. What a shocker. I wouldn’t blame him for an error like that.


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## Atem (Jan 30, 2018)

Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> And you wonder why I don't. Even if I did show you, you wouldn't accept it because the idea is just dumb. Get out.



Eh, Blakk Jakk be fair. If someone asks for evidence you give it. If they argue against that even if it's clear then you can start chewing them out for it.


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## Blakk Jakk (Jan 30, 2018)

Elric of Melniboné said:


> Eh, Blakk Jakk be fair. If someone asks for evidence you give it. If they argue against that even if it's clear then you can start chewing them out for it.


I have to agree with Worldbreaker here, this isn’t the place for it. And I did post evidence in another thread and how do you think he reacted? Incredulous of course.


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## Worldbreaker (Jan 31, 2018)

Elric of Melniboné said:


> Eh, Blakk Jakk be fair. If someone asks for evidence you give it. If they argue against that even if it's clear then you can start chewing them out for it.





Imakarum Mirabilis said:


> I have to agree with Worldbreaker here, this isn’t the place for it. *And I did post evidence in another thread and how do you think he reacted? Incredulous of course.*



This is the thread where we had the conversation of Universal PM, you never show me any scans of PM and when I asked for them you started saying that you didn't trust me, the ONLY scan you posted of PM was of him deflecting acid and it was before I started asking for scans.

You also stated that I was agreeing with Tonahatan's wanking, something that was also a lie and when I asked you to show me where I agree with him you didn't do it either.


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## John Wayne (Jan 31, 2018)

NooksBrigade said:


> Right! Forgot a few things (had to look at the wiki...)
> 
> Beato alone is multiverse level, while Bern and Lambda are hyperversal (Tier-1A).
> 
> ...



Implying Battler is below Beatrice when he has better feats and gets the pass from powerscaling too, have you even read Umineko?


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## Bad Wolf (Jan 31, 2018)

NooksBrigade said:


> Jiren/Bernkastel's Goats/Battler (Universal)


Battler is at the same level of Beatrice and he can kill dozen of goats with one hit. And there's literally a sea of those goats, they are a mass of fodder, so we can say that, in Umineko, Jiren is basically at the same level of a fodder group but not in the bottom tier


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## B Rabbit (Jan 31, 2018)

Wait you had to argue that Hulk was above Mountain level? Thats should be common knowledge here.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Blacku (Feb 1, 2018)

Just came here to say 

Vegeta>Jiren


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## creyzi4zb12 (Feb 1, 2018)

Another example as to why a lot of people are salty bout dragonball is the nature of most threads and canonicity.

You'll usually get threads like canon only drgonball vs the non canon version of Dio being allowed.

They had to like, upgrade a verse, severely restricting evidence use in dragonball while being extremely lax on the other part.
If you're using novel versions of a character at least allow the game versions of the other side.

Which is why there is bias against dragonball.

Reactions: Optimistic 1 | Dislike 5


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 1, 2018)

>bias against dragon ball
>one of the most popular franchises in the OBD which has consistently been pushed for upgrades and lowered standards since 2006

really forces me to ponder

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Iwandesu (Feb 1, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Another example as to why a lot of people are salty bout dragonball is the nature of most threads and canonicity.
> 
> You'll usually get threads like canon only drgonball vs the non canon version of Dio being allowed.
> 
> ...


I know you cant follow through basic evidence shown against you but are you straight up mentally challenged?
Anyone can make a thread With game dragonball vs wathever verse they want.
Anyone can make a thread With non canon version of x character against any version of x character they want.
People are free to make the thread they feel like it.
This has no bearing on wether that person is biased or not lol.
Anywah Dragonball is one of the most popular franchises on the OBD and currently one of the easy top 20 anime/mangos Power wise (maybe higher).
You are Just whinning ing on your own irrelevance at this point


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## Unlucky13 (Feb 1, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Another example as to why a lot of people are salty bout dragonball is the nature of most threads and canonicity.
> 
> You'll usually get threads like canon only drgonball vs the non canon version of Dio being allowed.
> 
> ...


At this point, your bias for DB shows way too much.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Feb 1, 2018)

creyzi4zb12 said:


> Another example as to why a lot of people are salty bout dragonball is the nature of most threads and canonicity.
> 
> You'll usually get threads like canon only drgonball vs the non canon version of Dio being allowed.
> 
> ...


Wheres the ningen rating when you need it cause this deserves it a thousand times over

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Orochibuto (Feb 1, 2018)

Elric of Melniboné said:


> Which in this context consists of an infinite number of megaverses.



Wow, that's huge. If I recall, that used to be the size of the Marvel omniverse.


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## Atem (Feb 1, 2018)

Orochibuto said:


> Wow, that's huge. If I recall, that used to be the size of the Marvel omniverse.



Possibly even larger than that too.

Since one you include the limbos which exist between each parallel version of Earth. Which are infinite in size, and in some cases noted to have stars and constellations. That would make each branch of the Skrayling Tree an omniverse.

A branch would a version of earth, the twigs on that branch every version of that Earth, the Ghost Worlds of which there are an infinite number that pass through each Earth, and then the limbos between each version of Earth.

Which is not taking account Hell, and Heaven which exist. The former which is infinite in size, and the latter which is infinite in size and has infinite versions of itself.


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## shade0180 (Feb 1, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> >bias against dragon ball
> >one of the most popular franchises in the OBD which has consistently been pushed for upgrades and lowered standards since 2006
> 
> really forces me to ponder



Nighty you don't have mod powers now or still have access to some of them?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Feb 1, 2018)

shade0180 said:


> Nighty you don't have mod powers now or still have access to some of them?



the former


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## Blakk Jakk (Feb 1, 2018)

Nighty the Mighty said:


> the former


Mod or not you still got that Noriko avi 


























And those yaoi fics

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Galo de Lion (Feb 1, 2018)

Also he's fodder in Discworld compared with the high tiers. There are billions/countless Deaths, and each is the embodiment of Death for an infinitely cardinalled multiverse, as each of the APs anthromorphically personify their concepts (like Chaos/Kaos). Even the greatest gods have infinite worshippers across the multiverse and should be some degree of multiversal.


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