# Kubo,Oda, or Kishimoto, which one is the better artist?



## Ryu19 (Nov 14, 2007)

Like the title says. For me the ranks are as follows:

1. Oda (His creativity and crazy designs are off the charts and I love his homage to Tim Burton during Thriller Bark.)

2. Kishimoto (From what I've seen of Naruto, the art is okay but the characters seem a bit bland to me.)

3. Kubo (I suppose fashion wise he is great but the art is hard to follow during fight scenes and the story is repeating itself at the moment.)

What are your thoughts?


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

artistry has nothing to do with plot

aka 

1.Oda's silly designs are great but a little generic as i've seen about 101 styles just like his (the silvery crow, rave,fairy tail, and 666 satan at some points)

2. Kishimoto's backround art is pretty good, and so are his character designs and closeup shots but he draws girls like men unless he's really trying.

3. Kubo has awsome character designs and the closeup shots are very detailed, however kubo's backround art isnt very good most of the time and is usually almost non existant.

All in all, they're all good artists and i can't choose who's better..now if hoshino katsura was in the running however..


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## Ryu19 (Nov 14, 2007)

What does he draw?


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

Ryu19 said:


> What does he draw?



She's a woman ._. she draws d.gray-man..


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## Ryu19 (Nov 14, 2007)

Ah, I knew that name was familiar. D Gray Man had some very unique drawings. The plot was okay but it didn't really grab my attention.


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## Aokiji (Nov 14, 2007)

I find it strange that most people deem Oda's drawings as genius, while the average, non-fanboy person would deem it a caricature. I find he is a good artist though.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

Ryu19 said:


> Ah, I knew that name was familiar. D Gray Man had some very unique drawings. The plot was okay but it didn't really grab my attention.



psh...you werent reffering to plot remember you were reffering to artistry..plus thats a matter of opinion..


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## Ryu19 (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry. When one person does both I like to comment on both. By the way I know this is off topic but has Obata written any manga or has he only drawn?


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## hazashi (Nov 14, 2007)

out of these three I like Kishimoto's character design the most, but at the moment I really like Yoshihiro Togashi of Hunter x hunter art


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## Lilykt7 (Nov 14, 2007)

Have you seen the recent artwork kishi did for naruto? Check it out in the cover discussion page.
I admit Kubo might have better character designs but I think Kishis the better artist


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## Taleran (Nov 14, 2007)

Oda > Kishimoto > Kubo


and this is like the 10th time this thread has been done


inb4war


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## Snakety69 (Nov 14, 2007)

Meh, to me it's impossible to compare, because all 3 are so different. They each have their own unique styles, and in my opinion, are very good at what they do.

Overall: Kishi = Kubo = Oda


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## KLoWn (Nov 14, 2007)

Tie.
They're all great, so im not gonna bother trying to decide who's the better one.


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## Sylar (Nov 14, 2007)

One look at Oda's backgrounds should end this.

Oda > Kubo > Kishi.


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## Megaharrison (Nov 14, 2007)

Tite is the king of the character, Bleach has the best character art but little to no background.







Kishimoto is great with backgrounds and scope. The backgrounds are pretty well detailed usually and in spread/double page images are usually pretty amazing. He's his best at wide scale images.








Oda, meh. He has his moments and the colored pages can be good a lot of the time, and sometimes he does well with backgrounds (such in the image posted above in this thread). However individual manga pages have a simplistic and cartoony/wacky style to them, though that is clearly purposeful (Oda takes the manga a lot less seriously then his fans do me thinks). Throw in his rather horrific character designs and he's the most inferior of the three. I think people praising his artwork as genius because it's "Creative" and "unique" is often an excuse by his rabid fanbase. I understand this will start a flame shitstorm but oh well.

None of the above are actually bad artists, and indeed no author in SJ is a bad artist, even Togashi can draw amazingly when he wants to (though he often doesn't give a damn and the result is chicken scratch and doodles). It's all a combination of effort and what they choose for the style of their manga.


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## Taleran (Nov 14, 2007)

which is exactally why I prefer Oda's art


every single part of it is constantly good and the page space is always put to the best use, yeah his characters are wacky, but so is the overall feel of his manga, his art doesn't fluctuate its always on the same level of detail, and the consistency is always kept.

I don't see why Kubo gets so much praise for drawing nothing but the same run of the mill Bishounens with a couple tweaks (OH he has an eyepatch), not to mention he just doesn't draw backgrounds nemore

and Kishimoto's was great when the manga started but now the magic seems to be gone


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## KLoWn (Nov 14, 2007)

Megaharrison said:


>


Pic 1 & 3 ain't working.


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## KazeYama (Nov 14, 2007)

Oda is the best artist. I think in terms of character design, color pages, and just the general angles/perspectives he uses to show action set him apart from the other ones. A good artist doesn't solely mean their work looks the best. In terms of creativity Oda is clearly above the others, and his unique style lends to his ability to portray action and characters in unique ways. 

Kishi is probably the worst artist because his character designs seem bland and when reading Naruto there are very few times where I just have to sit and look at a specific page or panel for a few seconds and be awed either by its presentation or beauty.


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## Haohmaru (Nov 14, 2007)

#1 Kishi & Kubo
#2 Oda 
Though I have to say that I've come to like Oda's style more and more. At first I didn't like it at all. Now I think it's good.


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## Dio Brando (Nov 14, 2007)

KazeYama said:


> Oda is the best artist. I think in terms of character design, color pages, and just the general angles/perspectives he uses to show action set him apart from the other ones. A good artist doesn't solely mean their work looks the best. In terms of creativity Oda is clearly above the others, and his unique style lends to his ability to portray action and characters in unique ways.
> 
> Kishi is probably the worst artist because his character designs seem bland and when reading Naruto there are very few times where I just have to sit and look at a specific page or panel for a few seconds and be awed either by its presentation or beauty.



I agree, except that I don't find anything Kubo does interesting or good to look at.


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## Palpatine (Nov 14, 2007)

I like Oda cause he is out of the norm, and I have a similar art style.


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## Lilykt7 (Nov 14, 2007)

Megaharrison said:


> Tite is the king of the character, Bleach has the best character art but little to no background.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



well said! You get a rep


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

Indeed, i agree harrison you get a rep from me as well....i think seishi can draw a bit better then masashi though, cause he draws women good...at times, TOO good.


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

> Tite is the king of the character, Bleach has the best character art but little to no background.



You have to be kidding.
The man has far too amny recolor characters with interchangable clothing, many of which are generic as hell.


Practically identical face structure, nice.


Again, nearly identical face structure with different hair. Ichigo's hair being entirely generic, Grimjows only slightly interesting.


What exactly am I supposed to be looking at here? 



> Kishimoto is great with backgrounds and scope. The backgrounds are pretty well detailed usually and in spread/double page images are usually pretty amazing. He's his best at wide scale images.



Kishimoto has the same damn background nearly ahlf the time, forests and identical architectural cities. Here and there we have rocky areas. But theres no reason a man with three background types who only every once and awhile has a great landscape (the only one I remember recently being any sort of good wa our first shot of Rain Village)



>



The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
Really...what are you lauding here?



> However individual manga pages have a simplistic and cartoony/wacky style to them, though that is clearly purposeful (Oda takes the manga a lot less seriously then his fans do me thinks).



One Piece is simultaneously goofy and serious, if you don't beleive that I doubt youv'e actually read it.
Theres nothing wrong with cartoony art, an the simplistic claim is true of every manga/comic. Defintly true of Naruto and Bleach.
Show me an example of this.



> Throw in his rather horrific character designs and he's the most inferior of the three.



Give an example of a horrific character design. 
I find it funny you offered examples of the other two but havn't done so here.



> I think people praising his artwork as genius because it's "Creative" and "unique" is often an excuse by his rabid fanbase. I understand this will start a flame shitstorm but oh well.



It will start nothing unless you actually show what it is your talking about.


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## AbnormallyNormal (Nov 14, 2007)

Megaharrison said:


> Tite is the king of the character, Bleach has the best character art but little to no background.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hmm wow, those pictures of backgrounds in naruto definitely make me give kishimoto the vote. those are some GORGEOUS images. kubo would be my second because of the fantastic personas the characters emit simply from their artworks alone. oda i think gets by on the strength of his creativity alone, and plot surprises, not so much quality of the art in and of itself. fans of one piece will simply infer the plot into the art somehow


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 14, 2007)

A thread done before but just to repeat; Oda is bad. His art I can't stand. One of the reasons I don't read One Piece the manga.


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

AbnormallyNormal said:


> hmm wow, those pictures of backgrounds in naruto definitely make me give kishimoto the vote. those are some GORGEOUS images. kubo would be my second because of the fantastic personas the characters emit simply from their artworks alone. oda i think gets by on the strength of his creativity alone, and plot surprises, not so much quality of the art in and of itself. fans of one piece will simply infer the plot into the art somehow



One Piece has high quality art given its a weekly series, he has well drawn everything. I honestly can't think of anything he does wrong (though theres some akward shit in the first 5 or so volumes).
"icky" characters designs isn't a matter of quality art, thats a style issue.

While I'm still baffled why anyone would like those two bottom Naruto images at all. I mean what am I missing? (the top one is very good though)


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## Parallax (Nov 14, 2007)

I have always preferred Oda's art.  It may seem stupid but his creativity and unique take on design is what will always set him apart.  He knows how to use his space and formation when drawing panels properly.  The man is simply a beast when he goes all out.

I use to be a fan of Kishimoto and Kubo, but Kishi stopped giving a damn and Kubo stopped drawing backgrounds(this really hurts the series).

And I hate the praising Kubo gets for his character design, only a few characters are really well done, while most are generic and look extremely similar.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

what i'm saying is, bleach has the best character designs(out of the 3 presented), i don't see your points as to how they looks similar to eachother zephos, yea kubo does cut corners by having the same angles in alot of his scenes, but that's just a minor thing, i don't really like kubo's art as a whole anyway, because he likes to do that weird shit wish his characters that make them look like freaking clowns (aka making rukia's head look like a freaking joke)


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

Inuhanyou said:


> zephos you just have to hand it to the guy for a point why dont ya, why dont you pull out some comparisons as to how the other 2 have better character designs then bleach, cause that's basiclly what we're saying



I never made a claim about One Piece's character designs (I think naruto is actually worse than Bleach here) Iv'e only made claims regarding Bleach, and I DID make an example about that through his examples.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 14, 2007)

Zephos said:


> You have to be kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Now that made me laugh. You do know that they are all from the same village right (as in they wear the same design)? You try drawing that many people and fitting them in the right proportions and perspective!


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

Inuhanyou said:


> i don't see your points as to how they looks similar to eachother zephos, yea kubo does cut corners by having the same angles in alot of his scenes, but that's just a minor thing)



....thats my point right there. He reuses alot of the same basic body type/proportions and adds a few little decals on the face or a new hair style and gives them a generic robe. Thats not minor at all, thats integral to character design.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 14, 2007)

Zephos said:


> He reuses alot of the same basic body type/proportions and adds a few little decals on the face or a new hair style and gives them a generic robe. Thats not minor at all, thats integral to character design.


 
And that is what is called style. How else would you be able to tell the difference between his art from anothers?


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 14, 2007)

Zephos said:


> ....thats my point right there. He reuses alot of the same basic body type/proportions and adds a few little decals on the face or a new hair style and gives them a generic robe. Thats not minor at all, thats integral to character design.



now that i agree with, i figured it was just a reusing of panels and he drew the character all over again, but if he just adds decals to make the differences then...i guess that's just being pretty lazy


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> Now that made me laugh. You do know that they are all from the same village right (as in they wear the same design)? You try drawing that many people and fitting them in the right proportions and perspective!



I know they wear the same design, I'm not saying thats an problem in of itself, but that it dosen't make the image impressive in any way. I'm saying its bland, not bad.
Also drawing alot of people in a crowd is not an impressive feat at all for an actual artist, especially a comics artist 30 something volumes in. Thats extremely basic. And your not comparing him to me, your comparing him to Oda and Kubo. I don't know why you even brought me up.


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## Castiel (Nov 14, 2007)

Oda > S. Kishi >> kubo > M. Kishi (don't get the kishis mixed up)

everyone's stated pretty much all the reasons why i like oda and kubo.  but with m. kishi his drawings were good and detailed at first but now recently he just seems to be making the bare minimum to make it coherent plus he has like 5 assistants what's up with that.  

Also his brother S. Kishi is much better in mnay respects though, S. Kishi writes for a monthly manga magazine so that may have something to do with it


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## Zephos (Nov 14, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> And that is what is called style. How else would you be able to tell the difference between his art from anothers?



Style is a unique aspect to a approach someone has, dressing up the same basic design isn't a style, even if you could construe it as such that would make it a bland style. Ergo its no arguement for it being a good thing.


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## Taleran (Nov 14, 2007)

Basically to sum up what I belive Zeph is trying to say 


if you take the bleach cast, shave them all and remove their eyepatchs you'd notice some striking similarities, and I agree with that, hell in better manga every single character is distinct and different. (*holy freaking cough* manga in sig)


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## King Bookah (Nov 14, 2007)

Already knew where this was goin before I clicked.  Oda by default since the other two half ass.


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## Zephos (Nov 15, 2007)

Taleran said:


> Basically to sum up what I belive Zeph is trying to say
> 
> 
> if you take the bleach cast, shave them all and remove their eyepatchs you'd notice some striking similarities, and I agree with that, hell in better manga every single character is distinct and different.



Akira (your sig) is a great example.
Otomo dosen't really have any fantastical characters designs whatsoever (a few weirdos in the second part at most) because of course aside from crazy psychic powers and some slightly future technology theres nothing at all fictional about Akira's world in art or plot.
But his character designs are more varied than Kubo's in subtle ways.
There's an entire platoon of guys with the same color hair and basic hair style and exact same clothing in the 3rd book (Nezu's private army) but each is distinct from eachother in suprisingly subtle ways. All of which are essentially cannon fodder around for a brief time.
Thats effort, thats skill.
Akira is also where Kishimoto got his ragtag clothing design style from, needless to say Otomo did it better.


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## Giorno Giovannax (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't see the point for such a thread. Art is subjective for the most part, meaning that the way I see it, another may not see it that way. Hence why people like Kubo, some like Kishi, and some like Oda. To me, I don't really have a problem with their art at all since I read mangas for plot, not art unless the art is is just so disgusting.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Zephos said:


> I know they wear the same design, I'm not saying thats an problem in of itself, but that it dosen't make the image impressive in any way. I'm saying its bland, not bad.
> Also drawing alot of people in a crowd is not an impressive feat at all for an actual artist, especially a comics artist 30 something volumes in. Thats extremely basic. And your not comparing him to me, your comparing him to Oda and Kubo. I don't know why you even brought me up.


 
Because apparently you don't seem to understand what the hardship of an artist is.


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## Zephos (Nov 15, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> Because apparently you don't seem to understand what the hardship of an artist is.



I'm an art student who just finished his finals, lol. Your talking about the wrong person at the wrong wrong time about hardship in art.

Not that this at all exscuses the fact that bringing me up is still entirely irrelevant to your arguement.
For one its an Ad Hominem.
For another, your comparing him to two of his fellow artists, who are equally subject to this "hardship" of drawing a bunch of small figures in a crowd on a generic plain.


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## Master Bait (Nov 15, 2007)

this thread has already been made gazillion of times already...

anyway, imo:

design character-artwise: bleach (though most of them look strikingly similar) > naruto = one piece
background-wise: One Piece >>>>>>> Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bleach (bleach has little to none background)
creativity: One Piece >>>>>>>> Naruto >>> Bleach
boobies: Bleach >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Piece >>>>> Naruto

all of them are pretty much generic imo. so those are my pics for now.


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## Parallax (Nov 15, 2007)

How is One Piece generic?  That doesn't make any sense?


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## Master Bait (Nov 15, 2007)

Parallax said:


> How is One Piece generic?  That doesn't make any sense?



well, it follows the shounen formula but it's just my opinion really... i could be wrong though. i don't know but all of them have similiarities, maybe it's just me.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Zephos said:


> I'm an art student who just finished his finals, lol. Your talking about the wrong person at the wrong wrong time about hardship in art.
> 
> Not that this at all exscuses the fact that bringing me up is still entirely irrelevant to your arguement.
> For one its an Ad Hominem.
> For another, your comparing him to two of his fellow artists, who are equally subject to this "hardship" of drawing a bunch of small figures in a crowd on a generic plain.


 
It wasn't an Ad Hominem. You basically put yourself out there stating how simple and "bland" Kishimoto's drawings and backgrounds are. So I didn't randomly pick you. You can't talk down on someone's skills unless you're better than them or know better. When I said Oda's art is bad, it's bad as in it's not attractive or appealing (design, manga panel format, etc), not that he can't draw or that I'm better than him. You on the other hand is going on about how Kishimoto lacks detail or sophistication (which looking at Kishimoto's art makes you seem as if you were saying you're an elitist).


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## Parallax (Nov 15, 2007)

Master Bait said:


> well, it follows the shounen formula but it's just my opinion really... i could be wrong though. i don't know but all of them have similiarities, maybe it's just me.



Have you read One Piece?  cause the art is anything but generic.


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## Zephos (Nov 15, 2007)

> It wasn't an Ad Hominem. You basically put yourself out there stating how simple and "bland" Kishimoto's drawings and backgrounds are. So I didn't randomly pick you.



You don't know what an Ad Hominem is do you.



> You can't talk down on someone's skills unless you're better than them or know better.



Absolute bullshit. Good judgement is good judgement, who the person is dosen't matter. Thats precisely an Ad Hominem. Your not attacking my arguements, your simply aying my arguements don't count because of who I am.
Ironically enough, if you believe this to be true your essentially saying you can't question anything I say because I'm a sophmore level art student and you are what exactly in regards to art?
Its self defeating.




> When I said Oda's art is bad, it's bad as in it's not attractive, not that he can't draw or that I'm better than him.



That isn't bad art, thats unattractive art. What makes you think Oda is out to make pretty character designs? He has clearly shown he knows how to make both amle and female eye candy, yet he still makes his Wanze's and his Kocoro's. Art isn't always made to be attractive. In fact alot of it isn't.



> You on the other hand is going on about how Kishimoto lacks detail or sophistication (which looking at Kishimoto's art makes you seem as if you were saying you're an elitist).



Your welcome to counter anything I say. Thats the point of debate. Going off on how I'm not able to say things because I'm not better or have more experience than Kishi is simply a way to sidestep actually argueing my points. If my points are bad, my points are bad and there are ways to reveal this.


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## Xell (Nov 15, 2007)

Oda - I've grown to love his character designs and his backgrounds. His backgrounds are so detailed with the shading and he really concentrates on small things as well as the big things. He also makes an effort to shade his characters.

Kubo - He's one of those artists which have kick ass character designs but really tries to hide the background. He thinks he can draw the viewers attention from the background by impressing them by an awesome character. When it comes to backgrounds, this guy isn't too amazing.

Kishimoto - Part 1, he actually seemed commited and like he enjoyed drawing Naruto. Shading on the characters and even some impressive works on the background. But as soon as he reached Part 2, the shading left and the backgrounds turned dull, or there wouldn't be any background at all in some panels. I'm dissapointed in this one.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Zephos said:


> You don't know what an Ad Hominem is do you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
If you put yourself out there then I have the rights to use you as an example in a debate. It was an indirect approach, I'll admit. But me saying that you couldn't do as well as Kishimoto in a situation as that is me saying that your opinions on Kishimoto's art is off due to your inability to be in his shoes or have his experience. Therefore my statement was relevant because it was a reply to your statement. I also noticed that as you were talking about the backgrounds that you didn't also quote the first pic with Pein ontop of the Rain Village building. You find that to be plain as well? As for attractiveness, I don't know about you but when I read a manga I'm looking to be inspired by the "awesome" drawings. To me Oda doesn't deliver that because his characters seem to lack "awesome" in their positions, action sequences, and etc. They seem ordinary and too "old-school" for my taste. I mean if a manga wasn't about how cool it's drawings were then there wouldn't be any images (I mean think of Dragonball and the things that Toriyama drew. Shit was freaking amazing and ahead of it's time! Now that was inspiration). One Piece fans know that the story is great but with Oda and his style it's no wonder why they're confused on why it's not up to par with Naruto's popularity in terms of international fame manga wise.


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## Zephos (Nov 15, 2007)

> If you put yourself out there then I have the rights to use you as an example in a debate.



When did I "put myself out there?
Your acting like I said something like "IM WAY BETTER THAN KISHIMOTO HE SUCKS, I COULD DRAW CIRCLES AROUND HIM".
How is saying " Kishimoto's drawing here isn't impressive at all." putting myself out here?

None of this matters as its STILL an Ad Hominem.



> But me saying that you couldn't do as well as Kishimoto in a situation as that is me saying that your opinions on Kishimoto's art is off due to your inability to be in his shoes or have his experience.



Look, 
First, go to wikipedia or some such, and read up on Ad Hominems.
Second, stop making them.
Were judging 3 seperate artists works. Kishimotot's experience and my experience are not whatsoever relevant to the conversation.



> I also noticed that as you were talking about the backgrounds that you didn't also quote the first pic with Pein ontop of the building in the Rain Village.



Apparently you missed the two times I mentioned that picture being a good example. It is however a rare example.



> As for attractiveness, I don't know about you but when I read a manga I'm looking to be inspired by the  "awesome" drawings.
> To me Oda doesn't deliver that because his characters seem to lack "awesome" in their positions, action sequences, and etc.



And not all characters are meant to be awesome, in fact its not good to have all awesome characters. Mr.2 is a gay ballerina karate fighter, he is there for comedic and goofy purposes, not awesome purposes. 
Character design should first and foremost adhere to the character it fits, the type of person the creator is trying to make. Or do you think oda was trying to amke a bishonen badass with Mr.2?



> They seem ordinary and too "old-school" for my taste.



Old school...?
What exactly does Oda's art resemble?



> I mean if a manga wasn't about how cool it's drawings were then there wouldn't be any images



Are you kidding?
I mean seriously...dude...



> (I mean think of Dragonball and the things that Toriyama drew. Shit was freaking amazing and ahead of it's time! Now that was inspiration)



Girin, Pilaf, Oolong, Roshi, Puar, Yajerobe, Chaozu, Manwolf, Android 8, Karin, Shen, Mr.Popo, The Ginyu Force, Zarbon, Majin Boo, Mr.Satan, Babidi, Kaio-sama, Bubbles, Enma, Baba, Dracula-man, Devil-man, Old Kaioshin, Captain Chicken.



> One Piece fans know that the story is great but with Oda and his style it's no wonder why they're confused on why it's not up to par with Naruto's popularity in terms of international fame.



Because people are shallow and are quicker to like simple generic "cool" and "bishie" designs.
Yhea, its why Souljah Boy outsells MF Doom, your not really making a very good point here.
Though ironically your underestimating OP's popularity outside the US heavily, its actually MORE popular than Naruto in Japan.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Zephos said:


> When did I "put myself out there?
> 
> 
> Because people are shallow and are quicker to like simple generic "cool" and "bishie" designs.
> ...


 
Oh shit really? That just proved how you're not reading me carefully. I said international no? And this was putting yourself out there:
"The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
Really...what are you lauding here?". That wasn't only saying that you weren't impressed but as if it's something easy to pull off. And that's how you came into the picture. Now if you were to say in those same sentences that Oda or Kubo could've done it as well and probably better, then I could've understood. But leaving yourself open like that for an attack was bound to happen. And no I'm not talking about your whole post or the reasons why you're posting in this thread. Just those sentences alone made you seem like an elitist. Once again, not Ad Hominem. I know what the word means and in your situation it doesn't apply, especially when you worded your opinion like that. And no I wasn't kidding. If art wasn't made to be appealing then why the fuck is it in manga? You said it yourself. If you hold strong to the story that much than you might as well read text novel versions. The rest of your rebuttal seems to be off because you're not understanding my statement but rather being sarcastic.


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## blackness (Nov 15, 2007)

Kubo draws the most beautiful characters by far. In terms of facial and anatomical details he's *far* beyond Kishi or Oda. Of those three Kubo definitely has the most detailed and sophisticated character drawings and an incredible set of unique and finely drawn characters. There should have been about 200 (!) different characters in bleach up until now and even people who aren't fans should be able to remember most of them. Out of those three artists he is the most "stylish" one as well.

Kishi. Well, I don't like the story that much, at the moment, so I might be a little biased. Kishi doesn't really excel anywhere, except for maybe the backgrounds. He however manages to keep a fine balance between fore- and background with a strong overall consistency throughout the whole series. The world with all it's different people is extremely detailed and feels "alive" - much more than Bleach's dull Hueco Mundo or the overly repetitive backgrounds in Soul Society.

Oda's strengths are his extraordinary creativity, dynamics and the emotions. His drawing style is a lot more cartoonish than Kishi's and Kubo's and especially the characters are a lot less detailed. The reduced art-style however allows him to use perspectives a much more efficiently than Kubo or Kishi, so that his drawings usually turn out to be the most dynamic ones. Oda's greatest strength however is his ability to put life into his characters. They are so cute, weird and stupid that it is inevitable to sooner or later fall in love with them. And he is a master at creating *highly* emotional, if not even tear-jerking scenes. In certain chapters of One Piece I was close to crying - Something only few can achieve.


----------



## Sairou (Nov 15, 2007)

Akira Toriyama curbstomps all three. 'Nuff said.  On a side note, I agree with Inuhanyou in the fact that D.Gray-Man is better than all three of them in terms of character design, background and art in general. =P

*Spoiler*: _D.Gray-Man manga pics_


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## Sasuke_fanboy (Nov 15, 2007)

Oda pwns the other two. He's got better character designs and his backgrounds are just so much better.


----------



## Master Bait (Nov 15, 2007)

Parallax said:


> Have you read One Piece?  cause the art is anything but generic.



lawl. sorry to confuse you though, it's actually my fault but i really didn't mean the art was generic... 

and to answer your question, yes, i have read One Piece and the art is pretty unique. honestly, it was the first time i saw a manga with art like that and again, by the word generic, i didn't mean the art. by that, i meant that One Piece is a generic shounen anime. again, sorry for causing you confusion...

EDIT: well, i was formerly "Peace" and before that, i was "iluvOnePiece". and yes, i do love One Piece.


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## Byakuya (Nov 15, 2007)

Kubo > Kishimoto > Oda.


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## Taleran (Nov 15, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> Oh shit really? That just proved how you're not reading me carefully. I said international no? And this was putting yourself out there:
> "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
> Really...what are you lauding here?". That wasn't only saying that you weren't impressed but as if it's something easy to pull off. And that's how you came into the picture. Now if you were to say in those same sentences that Oda or Kubo could've done it as well and probably better, then I could've understood. But leaving yourself open like that for an attack was bound to happen. And no I'm not talking about your whole post or the reasons why you're posting in this thread. Just those sentences alone made you seem like an elitist. Once again, not Ad Hominem. I know what the word means and in your situation it doesn't apply, especially when you worded your opinion like that. And no I wasn't kidding. If art wasn't made to be appealing then why the fuck is it in manga? You said it yourself. If you hold strong to the story that much than you might as well read text novel versions. The rest of your rebuttal seems to be off because you're not understanding my statement but rather being sarcastic.





Okay your just jumping to conclusions then and assuming things, good job


----------



## Aldric (Nov 15, 2007)

blackness said:


> Oda's strengths are his extraordinary creativity, dynamics and the emotions. His drawing style is a lot more cartoonish than Kishi's and Kubo's and especially the characters are a lot less detailed.



You serious? I find Oda's character designs infinitely more complex and detailed than what Kubo and Kishimoto generally come up with.

This is particularly true for the outfits.


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## bijuu231 (Nov 15, 2007)

i like kishi's style and background
kubo on the other hand is hit or miss for me
but he is consistent


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## Yak (Nov 15, 2007)

> Kubo,Oda, or Kishimoto, which one is the better artist?



Kazushi Hagiwara.


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## Zephos (Nov 15, 2007)

> Oh shit really? That just proved how you're not reading me carefully. I said international no?



Yhea, international means more than the US and Japan.
Your underestimating Europe, South American, and Asian popularity of One Piece.


> And this was putting yourself out there:
> "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
> Really...what are you lauding here?".



How the hell is that anything of the sort?
Also this IS STILL AN AD HOMINEM.



> That wasn't only saying that you weren't impressed but as if it's something easy to pull off.



A basic crowd scene is absolutly nothing fucking special. Do you want me to show you Oda doing one of these a billion times better?



> And that's how you came into the picture. Now if you were to say in those same sentences that Oda or Kubo could've done it as well and probably better, then I could've understood. But leaving yourself open like that for an attack was bound to happen. And no I'm not talking about your whole post or the reasons why you're posting in this thread. Just those sentences alone made you seem like an elitist. Once again, not Ad Hominem. I know what the word means and in your situation it doesn't apply, especially when you worded your opinion like that.



Define Ad Hominem for me, your doing it exactly. In fact this is also a Red Herring. Your lucky I like going off tangent.
And AGAIN, and don't ignore this this time, by your own logic you can't questiona nything I say regarding this.



> And no I wasn't kidding. If art wasn't made to be appealing then why the fuck is it in manga?



That, that right, there *art is not made to always be appealing.*
Thats a n incredibly shallow viewpoint.



> You said it yourself. If you hold strong to the story that much than you might as well read text novel versions.



I may be overreacting here, but are you implying the comics medium is not about stories?



> The rest of your rebuttal seems to be off because you're not understanding my statement but rather being sarcastic.



Your making a huge Ad Hominem, refusing that you are, and your refusing to actaully attack my argeuments. You have already lost this. Had you done the latter than good game, but you had to go for the Ad Hom.


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## Sylar (Nov 15, 2007)

Hiromu Arakawa's art > Kishi and Kubo's.


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## Akatora (Nov 15, 2007)

The one i prefeer:
Kubo

Stands out:
Oda

general backgrounds:
Kishi



To each there own, Kubo's short storys are more of my cup of tea then OP or Naruto.


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## ~Mamoru~ (Nov 15, 2007)

I think I'll give this to Oda as well, but I like Kishi's art as well. Kishi drew a pretty good Luffy for the One Piece 10th anniversary and the sketch for the latest chapter was pretty nice. I do think that his women could be drawn better, but he has drawn some nice females for the sexy no jutsu, Tsunade, Mikoto and Konohamaru's jutsu. He's also shown in recent chapters that he can be a little creative with animals for Pain's and Jiraiya's summons. Also he does do a lot of clean panels that are popular amongst colorists, probably more so than the other two artists. In fact, I prefer some of Kishi's coloured double pages, like that those with Naruto and Sasuke as well the recent one. Though, he does seem a little lazy though.

Oda, though has a real skill when drawing and merging animals and humans consistently and his backgrounds are nice, though sometimes a little cluttered or busy. He does impact shots very well as well. I think Kishi is pretty good at those as well though.

Kubu, like many have said does nice character designs, but I think are a little too similar to each other, which doesn't make him look that versatile to me. I don't think his One Piece drawing for the anniversary was that special - Luffy looked more like Ichigo.


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Nov 15, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Yhea, international means more than the US and Japan.
> Your underestimating Europe, South American, and Asian popularity of One Piece.
> 
> 
> ...


 

Now this is about winning? Get over yourself. What exactly do you gain from winning an arguement over the internet? Anyways, I wasn't implying that the mangas were not about the story but with your statement it seems that they don't need the images. I was going by what you said. It's not a shallow point. If you fail to see from a business perspective why design needs to be attractive and "awesome", and the reasons why mangas are loved then that's sad. It's more of the art than the story. If the art is not appealing or look great then it won't get the customer's attention to buy the book to even read it. And I fail to see how Oda's art skills comes into question with what *I quoted you on*. Not the thread but what *I quoted you on*. Once again Oda wasn't in this statement when you said "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
Really...what are you lauding here?" therefore leading me to the conclusion that you yourself could do better.


----------



## Castiel (Nov 15, 2007)

~Mamoru~ said:


> I think I'll give this to Oda as well, but I like Kishi's art as well.* Kishi drew a pretty good Luffy for the One Piece 10th anniversary and *the sketch for the latest chapter was pretty nice. I do think that his women could be drawn better, but he has drawn some nice females for the sexy no jutsu, Tsunade, Mikoto and Konohamaru's jutsu. He's also shown in recent chapters that he can be a little creative with animals for Pain's and Jiraiya's summons. Also he does do a lot of clean panels that are popular amongst colorists, probably more so than the other two artists. In fact, I prefer some of Kishi's coloured double pages, like that those with Naruto and Sasuke as well the recent one. Though, he does seem a little lazy though.



pics. now.


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## Detonator_Fan (Nov 15, 2007)

1- Kishi
2- Oda
3- Kubo

I don't think they are very good at drawing (they are good at creating stories and fights) and they are more or less at the same level in my opinion.

That guy from Black Cat is way better than them at drawing.

From WSJ of the guys I know the one from ES21 is the best.


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## Kira U. Masaki (Nov 16, 2007)

i think its a preference thing, i think they are all about on the same level, but i guess i would go with kishi as one , than kubo, than oda


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## Agmaster (Nov 16, 2007)

Inuhanyou said:


> She's a woman ._. she draws d.gray-man..



Until the action scenes can be followed with a team of less than three people effectively Rinneganning it thru the internet, I disagree.  Her art isn't bad, but she's really bad at expressing energy.



Zephos said:


> The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
> Really...what are you lauding here?



Actually, after paying attention to the post saving Gaara scene, it in fact has details for each character, thus kind of kicking your argument for that in the shin.  As for Zaraki and Kenpachi being the same face wise, that's iffy.  Arguments could be made either way.  Most artists don't go out of their way (a la Oda) to differentiate their art style for all the main characters.

Ironically, I'm an OP fan storywise, but that post saving Gaara pic was awesome.  I notice you skipped out on showing the pic of Pein in the city in your quoting.  Any reason why?

Looking back at the saving Gaara pic, is that a giant cat that guy at the bottom right has, not to mention another pupper user, someone (two people actually) that looks like Neji or Orochimaru with extra fat, and dude with that big sword.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2007)

Agmaster said:


> Until the action scenes can be followed with a team of less than three people effectively Rinneganning it thru the internet, I disagree.  Her art isn't bad, but she's really bad at expressing energy.



Bad at expressing energy huh..wanna clarify that? And everything else you said i didn't get, please explain.


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## MdB (Nov 16, 2007)

Oda>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kishimoto>>>>>>>>>>Kubo

I stopped caring for Kishimoto's art after he became a lazy ass since part 2 started (But he still has his moments). As for Kubo, nothing can match his backgrounds and the bland cast of bishies.

Not to mention Oda's world actually breathes compared to the other 2.


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## Gene (Nov 16, 2007)

Agmaster said:


> Until the action scenes can be followed with a team of less than three people effectively Rinneganning it thru the internet, I disagree.  Her art isn't bad, but she's really bad at expressing energy.


Her fight scenes aren't bad. The only fight that I remember having a hard time following was Allen vs Tyki.


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## Inuhanyou (Nov 16, 2007)

and that depends on which tyki scene your talking about cause i could follow both of them clearly, if your talking about fighting scenes you should look to trigun maximum, now those are a bitch to decipher


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## Zephos (Nov 16, 2007)

> Actually, after paying attention to the post saving Gaara scene, it in fact has details for each character, thus kind of kicking your argument for that in the shin.



What are you talking about?
Again, the characters all mostly look the same, a few of them withstanding, your still clapping and shouting over a crowd of small figures.

Why??



> As for Zaraki and Kenpachi being the same face wise, that's iffy.  Arguments could be made either way.  Most artists don't go out of their way (a la Oda) to differentiate their art style for all the main characters.



Do we have to bald them?




> Ironically, I'm an OP fan storywise, but that post saving Gaara pic was awesome.  I notice you skipped out on showing the pic of Pein in the city in your quoting.  Any reason why?



Because AS I MENTIONED TWICE, that one was good.



> Looking back at the saving Gaara pic, is that a giant cat that guy at the bottom right has, not to mention another pupper user, someone (two people actually) that looks like Neji or Orochimaru with extra fat, and dude with that big sword.



And....
I still have a pic from Oda that blows this to high hell crowd and landscape wise.
Need I produce?


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## Zephos (Nov 16, 2007)

> Now this is about winning? Get over yourself.



I havn't won, its just that youv'e lost.
You built arguement on a logical fallacy. So you have nothing.
Your point collapses.
You can always renter with some logic and actual arguements.



> Anyways, I wasn't implying that the mangas were not about the story but with your statement it seems that they don't need the images. I was going by what you said. It's not a shallow point.



Wait......are you implying the only point of images is to be appealing?



> If you fail to see from a business perspective why design needs to be attractive and "awesome", and the reasons why mangas are loved then that's sad.



Are we argueing business?
When did this change from "which is a better artist" to "which makes a more traditionally marketable product"?
Its simply put, iditioc to assume all things must be awesome looking.



> It's more of the art than the story. If the art is not appealing or look great then it won't get the customer's attention to buy the book to even read it. And I fail to see how Oda's art skills comes into question with what *I quoted you on*. Not the thread but what *I quoted you on*.



He comes in simply by being one of the three subjects of the friggin topic. I was talking about one subject, inevitably comparing him to the other two. Oda being one of those.



> Once again Oda wasn't in this statement when you said "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of eachother in design.
> Really...what are you lauding here?" therefore leading me to the conclusion that you yourself could do better.



Because your being retarded about this, and approaching dangerously close to Phenomonyl levels, every time you keep weakly attempting to justify that I somehow personally have anything to do with this..
I am going to reply with this.


I'll know youv'e read and understood it when you fianlly stop bringing me up.


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## Antonio Vivaldi (Nov 16, 2007)

I actually stopped reading Gray-man because of how hard it was to follow the action scenes. That fight of the Samurai dude vs the thunder noah was great except for the fact that I didn't get half of it.

As to the OP, it really all depends. Taste in art is subjective. Like some people have said, Kubo doesn't draw backgrounds, but his character designs are generally appealing, although he does seem to repeat them all the time. Kishimoto is lazy as hell when it comes to drawing backgrounds, but we know he in fact can draw them when he wants to. I like the clearness of his drawings, and I generally enjoy his art-style, although not really a fan of his character designs. He sucks at drawing women, and again, most of his backgrounds, specially for part 2, are pretty awful.

Oda, I think is the best. His backgrounds are amazing, and his character designs are great as well imo. 

If you want to check out great art style, you should probably read up on Berserk, Vagabond, and Hajime no Ippo. 

Zephos: Maybe you should post pics of the filler background characters from WB's crew, or the background marines from the BC. Lol, that should end that particular aspect of you g argument.


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## Luckyday (Nov 16, 2007)

Haohmaru said:


> #1 Kishi & Kubo
> #2 Oda
> Though I have to say that I've come to like Oda's style more and more. At first I didn't like it at all. Now I think it's good.



Is in Full agreement:
It's like this, you first hate the style of the manga because it's looks too simple or childish but if you actually read the One Piece (or a few chapters in my case) you'll soon learn this style actually goes well with the tone of the story. Would this manga be just as funny with an art-stlye like say Deathnote? I guessing no.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 17, 2007)

One Piece:
_ 
_


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## Graham Aker (Nov 17, 2007)

Kubo - best at drawing human figures
Oda - best at drawing backgrounds, objects(like ships etc.)
Masashi - doesnt care, wanks to Sasuke


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## Castiel (Nov 17, 2007)

one piece:
publishers: 
(taiwan) Tong Li
 (france)Glénat
(brazil) Conrad
 (singapore)Chuang Yi (Chinese)
(south korea) Daiwon C.I.
 (uk) Gollancz Manga
 (us and canada) Viz Media
(norway) Schibsted Forlagene
(sweden) Bonnier Carlsen
(germany and denmark)  Carlsen Comics
 (finland) Sangatsu Manga
(italy) Star Comics
(hong kong) Jonesky
(indonesia) Elex Media Komputindo
(mexico) Editorial Toukan
(spain) Planeta DeAgostini Comics
 (malaysia)Comics House
 (thailand) Siam Inter Comics

18 publishing companies, 20 flags

full list for naruto is:
 (us/canada) Viz Media
(taiwan) Tongli
(hong kong) Rightman
(south korea) Daiwon C.I.
(poland) JPF
  (france/netherlands,quebec) Kana
 (germany/denmark) Carlsen Comics
(hungary) Mangafan
(italy) Panini Comics (Planet Manga)
 (malaysia)Comics House, Komik Remaja
 (singapore) Chuang Yi (Chinese)
(catalonia/spain)  Glénat
(indonesia) Elex Media Komputindo
 (normay/sweden) Schibsted Forlagene
(brazil) Panini Comics (2007)
 (mexico)Mundo Vid

16 publishing companies, 21 flags

understandable since they're both popular shonen jump titles that cmae out withing 4 years of each other.  but meh it's not like all these names and flags really beef up either argument


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## Master Bait (Nov 17, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> Oda>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kishimoto>>>>>>>>>>Kubo
> 
> I stopped caring for Kishimoto's art after he became a lazy ass since part 2 started (But he still has his moments). *As for Kubo, nothing can match his backgrounds and the bland cast of bishies.*
> 
> Not to mention Oda's world actually breathes compared to the other 2.



 .....


----------



## Dimezanime88 (Nov 17, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Oh it is? How is that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, talk about not being calm. So attacking my opinions as retarded is not an ad hominem? That's like me saying that coming after you because you don't know how to spell certain words correctly is not an ad hominem either. The way I see it our long ass replies are essays. If you want your responses understood then talk in complete sentences that make total sense. That way I wouldn't lead to assumptions as you put it. Anyways are you not the one that typed this:  "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of each other in design. Really...what are you lauding here?" Therefore automatically your perspective and opinion right? "I" wasn't mentioned but like I said the lack of Oda's name or any other artist's name concluded to you. Also Kishimoto's not a sell out if he actually knows how to draw. Keeping on-topic of manga, art-skills and art-style, how you could say that business has nothing to do with your statement "art isn't always made to be attractive. In fact a lot of it isn't" amazes me. I'm not going to go into an explanation again.


----------



## Agmaster (Nov 17, 2007)

Inuhanyou said:


> Bad at expressing energy huh..wanna clarify that? And everything else you said i didn't get, please explain.



Her action scenes are generally hard to follow as they get more intense.  I'm tempted to cite Tyki vs. Allen in the latest incarnation.  There were atleast two pages of people trying to figure out the fight scene.



Inuhanyou said:


> and that depends on which tyki scene your talking about cause i could follow both of them clearly, if your talking about fighting scenes you should look to trigun maximum, now those are a bitch to decipher



I followed all of TriMax pretty easily.  Even the final Legato vs. Vash which was the best thing ever.  



Zephos said:


> What are you talking about?
> Again, the characters all mostly look the same, a few of them withstanding, your still clapping and shouting over a crowd of small figures.



No, they don't look mostly the same.  Granted they all have the same uniform, but they are a SECRET ARMY THAT JUST CAME OUT TO SAVE THEIR LEADER.  Thus, battle duds.  And don't give me that Akira BS, this angle is way harder to make exacting details off of.  Yet Kishi does a good job of working in what that scene was ssupposed to say.  A lot of different people from his home care about Gaara.  Different.  As in, if Kishi actually focused on any side characters, I could discern them. in that image.  I see Kank, Tem, etc and so forth.  So long as they existed before the panel (ooh ahhh pandaman is such a genius brushstroke, ok that was petty)  I would be able to differentiate them.  Thus, kick in the shin.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 17, 2007)

> Wow, talk about not being calm. So attacking my opinions as retarded is not an ad hominem?



Insults are not Ad Hominems. Ad Hominems are personal attacks (they don't even need to be insults) the arguement is *hinged on*.
Like saying I can't critiscize Kishi's art because of who I am.



> that That's like me saying that coming after you because you don't know how to spell certain words correctly is not an ad hominem either.



It wasn't.



> The way I see it our long ass replies are essays.



And you dictate what is and what isn't around here?
If were talking formal essays here than we shouldn't be making any self references either. Why would we care about formal essay format when making chat posts?



> If you want your responses understood then talk in complete sentences that make total sense.



And when havn't I done this? Just because a sentence isn't dead specific dosen't make it incomplete.



> That way I wouldn't lead to assumptions as you put it. Anyways are you not the one that typed this:  "The backgrounds here are dull as all hell, and the people dotting them are pretty much clones of each other in design. Really...what are you lauding here?" Therefore automatically your perspective and opinion right?



Of course its my opinion. Just like every single person here is having theirs.
By that logic NOBODY who isn't a mangaka should be saying anything bad or good about any of these three mangas. Ergo this entire thread is pointless?



> "I" wasn't mentioned but like I said the lack of Oda's name or any other artist's name concluded to you.



No it didn't. Again, this is complete and total assumption. Nothing leads to me there. The absence of Oda dosen't make it me I'm comparing it too.
In fact I'm not even comparing. I'm stating the image is fairly simple, and that I don't see why other people think its a really great example of Kishi's art. Tell me how any of that is me saying I'm better than Kishi.
You are making an Ad Hominem attack, admit it and move on.
If you can't defend Kishi's art from me than let someone else try it, like Agmaster is doing. 



> Also Kishimoto's not a sell out if he actually knows how to draw.



Since when was skill seperate from selling out? To be able to sell-out suggests you had something before.



> Keeping on-topic of manga, art-skills and art-style, how you could say that business has nothing to do with your statement "art isn't always made to be attractive. In fact a lot of it isn't" amazes me. I'm not going to go into an explanation again.



Buisness has nothing to do with the topic, or my statement. Were doing art critique here. I'm saying character designs like Mr.2 aren't MEANT to be awesome or whatever, they are meant to be goofy and apsurd. As art Mr.2's design is not meant to be appealing, thats not his purpose.
Art can be meant to scare, sadden, disgust, amuse, etc etc. Appeal is only one possible aspect.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 17, 2007)

> No, they don't look mostly the same.  Granted they all have the same uniform, but they are a SECRET ARMY THAT JUST CAME OUT TO SAVE THEIR LEADER.



One thing in your first sentence, and something different in the second.
And again, I KNOW why they all look very similar, Im not saying its bad that they do, in fact it makes sense. But that dosen't make it an impressive showing of skills. 



> And don't give me that Akira BS, this angle is way harder to make exacting details off of.



You have no idea what I was using Akira to say do you. And don't say anything in naruto is "way harder" when comparing it to Akira. Seriously.
Have you read Akira?
Also the character designs remain the same no matter what angle its at, the challenge of drawing them at the angle would be getting the proportions to look accurate, not drawing in the little details.



> Yet Kishi does a good job of working in what that scene was ssupposed to say.



Which was what? Showing that Gaara was cared for by showing a bunch of his pals and soldiers around him?
Yhea, he succeeded. Its a working image.
But that dosen't make it an impressive show of art.
Like the cityscape with Pein.



> A lot of different people from his home care about Gaara.  Different.  As in, if Kishi actually focused on any side characters, I could discern them. in that image.  I see Kank, Tem, etc and so forth.  So long as they existed before the panel I would be able to differentiate them.  Thus, kick in the shin



And whats so great about this spread ART WISE. Your talking about plot here, and how the image works.
Nothing your saying is about how its an incredible piece of art. 



> (ooh ahhh pandaman is such a genius brushstroke, ok that was petty)



Also stupid and a total strawman.


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 17, 2007)

Zephos said:


> No it didn't. Again, this is complete and total assumption. Nothing leads to me there. The absence of Oda dosen't make it me I'm comparing it too.
> In fact I'm not even comparing. I'm stating the image is fairly simple, and that I don't see why other people think its a really great example of Kishi's art. Tell me how any of that is me saying I'm better than Kishi.
> You are making an Ad Hominem attack, admit it and move on.
> If you can't defend Kishi's art from me than let someone else try it, like Agmaster is doing.



Insults not equaling to personal attacks is lol. Where do you go to school? Anyways, I'm already done with my defending. Since you're not able to comprehend how things are relevant I'm not going to bother coming in here and repeating myself. At the end of the day if you can possibly criticize that Kishimoto's art is nothing special then that's good for you. Ridiculous but good for you. Oda on the other hand has boring drawings and fails to have any excitement to his action scenes or poses. Mostly every panel seems busy and too jammed packed and not in a good way.

Kishimoto with a few examples of his dynamic poses/action:
Your Local Guardian (UK)
Your Local Guardian (UK)
DDL




Creativity:
Your Local Guardian (UK)
Your Local Guardian (UK)
Your Local Guardian (UK)

Backgrounds:
I don't think I can take these Uchitards much longer...
I don't think I can take these Uchitards much longer...

There's a lot more but my computer is slow at the moment and it's really late over here.


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## Slips (Nov 17, 2007)

Oda for took some getting use too but great style.

Not going into too much detail as the thread is full of whining turds. No opinion is wrong end of.



hazashi said:


> out of these three I like Kishimoto's character design the most, but at the moment I really like Yoshihiro Togashi of Hunter x hunter art



Aye I'm a big fan of Togashi pity a lot were put off while is was ill. He's slowly getting back to his best though


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## Zephos (Nov 17, 2007)

> Insults not equaling to personal attacks is lol.



Misreading what I said is lol.



> At the end of the day if you can possibly criticize that Kishimoto's art is nothing special then that's good for you. Ridiculous but good for you. Oda on the other hand has boring drawings and fails to have any excitement to his action scenes or poses. Mostly every panel seems busy and too jammed packed and not in a good way.



What? Are you kidding me? You spend 3 pages bitching and defending yourself saying I can't talk about Kishi's art because I'm not coming from his experience and the first thing you do when your done is turn around and do the same for Oda?
Damn man. You better make comics because otherwise thats more than a years worth of hypocracy right there.



> Kishimoto with a few examples of his dynamic poses/action:
> Your Local Guardian (UK)
> Your Local Guardian (UK)
> DDL
> ...



Yes yes, now what are you imposing on me here.
Are you making more assumptions? Did I say Kishi couldn't draw? Couldn't make a festive color spread? That he NEVER had good backgrounds? That he had static movement for his figures?

Now lets get to the meat.



> Oda on the other hand has boring drawings and fails to have any excitement to his action scenes or poses.



Examples plz.



> Mostly every panel seems busy and too jammed packed and not in a good way



Examples plz.
And I must say, whats with saying his drawings are dull then saying they're too busy. You have two opposite extremes for critiscisms.

And don't turn this around and ask me to give examples. I need to see what you consider "dull" or "too busy" or whatnot.


----------



## Spica (Nov 17, 2007)

1. Kishimoto.
He is the better artist. He follows the 'realistic' art-style. He's the king of background, but a fool in character design. However, his characters have the right portions and doesn't have the big annoying eyes like most characters in manga like Tanemura's, which makes it ok.  

2. Kubou.
Is an amazing designer. His characters are very original and the costymes are just amazing. The only one I know of who's better than him in character design is Hoshino. 
The thing about his characters are those incredibly big eyes and mouths sometimes.  Kubou's good with getting the feeling of the moment when he does the background, but could've tried to be more original with his plot. 

3. Oda.
His style is very confusing. People have dificulties with reading in black and white, but most mangakas has a style which solves the problem, which Oda don't.  I know originality makes the best artist, but remember, Oda did say that his style was inspired by Tom&Jerry. I don't like the body-style, it's too thin and long.

If Hoshino was in this, she would've wiped Kishi, Kubou and Oda off their asses. 
I'm not a fan of DGM, but I love her art. She's a goddess in character design. Even though she's a female, she doesn't draw big, emotional eyes like Tanemura, Watase, Takeuchi, Hino or any other female mangaka. The only thing I don't like is the nose, sometimes.


----------



## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

I love it how you claim Kishimoto to be the king of backgrounds when Oda basically shits on him in terms of drawing breathtaking backgrounds. The generic landforms that consist of rocky terrains or a forest are tiresome and dont hold a candle to the shit Oda does with his backgrounds. Kubo is a non-factor though.


----------



## Spica (Nov 17, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> I love it how you claim Kishimoto to be the king of backgrounds when Oda basically shits on him in terms of drawing breathtaking backgrounds. The generic landforms that consist of rocky terrains or a forest are tiresome and dont hold a candle to the shit Oda does with his backgrounds. Kubo is a non-factor though.



Kishi draws a more realistic background than Oda. Compare their ways of drawing water: Oda's water look like an old Disney-cartoon water


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Nov 17, 2007)

Oda produces the most original looking characters, be they conforming to a standardize form of artistic beauty or not. Specifcially, Oda's character design are often grotesque in how they should be appreciated and or taken. Admitedly though, some characters just look terrible.  Still, it's not all about characters. 

I would say Oda has a varying level of background design that changes throughout the manga and depends on what is being drawn. Essentially, I would say Oda is a less consitent in the background designs, but that he simply has better ones then Kishimoto.... along the way they look also has a certain funkyness you need to appreicate them. In any case, one other thing to note is that oda seems to draw the best looking inanimate object and or natural things.   

As for Bleach, Kubo is essentially utilizing what is the standardized form for beauty and appropriating it without shame. As a result, many are prone to his character designs, and this is to be expected. By the same token, Kubo's approach garnishes the opposite reaction precisely because he doesn't deviate from the norm. Regardless, objectivly speaking it can't be denied, despite the bishi stuff, that the characters do have definition and are well designed. That being said, wherther the relative high of typical art is better then the relative high of funky stuff is alot of asshole opinions. Whatever. Kubo can' compete with the other too in backgrounds and only focuses on his characters looking nice. 

Kishimoto has the most deemably atypical style for characters, though I think there are exceptions. Either way, I'd say he has great background design at times. Further still, his illustration of seemingly natural phenomenon is the best of the three. Meh. Kishi can easily be viewed as a 'neutral' by many though. Whereas I would say the opinions for Oda and Kubo are simply either one extreme or the other.


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## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

Setsunateki said:


> Kishi draws a more realistic background than Oda. Compare their ways of drawing water: Oda's water look like an old Disney-cartoon water



And since when are Kishi's illustrations of water better than Oda when he's basically a lazy ass that doesn't even bother to shade his shit. Realistically doesn't mean it looks better. Not to mention drawing water is basically a non-factor if you look at the backgrounds as a whole. There's no emotion in Kishi's work.

Though whatever it is, both shit on Kubo's backgrounds that consist of the most bland and boring designs I've witnessed.


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## Akatora (Nov 17, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> Though whatever it is, both shit on Kubo's backgrounds that consist of the most bland and boring designs I've witnessed.



Well Kubo's style is to focus on the character design and expression over backgrounds and at times i appreciate that.
I suppose in a way you can call Kubo's backgrounds bland, though in a diffrent way when he do draw em:
Since Kubo makes his backgrounds what should i call it... "to perfect"/ Machine like / Focus on clear cuts.
He ain't trying to make the Backgrounds as living as the others might i guess.




Still Kubo have done something that Oda havn't and seemingly Kishi have only managed RARELY.
Make a character design look "Scary"/ Cool/ Badass in it's rightfull league.
Im Talking about the Vaizard mask mainly here.
By far they look more cool then anything from the 2 others(imo atleast)


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## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

Akatora if you quote me again I'm going to wreck your shit once again. Dont....


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## Akatora (Nov 17, 2007)

Well I might already have done it.

Seriously, if you'll prefeer that direction I suppose I could just ignore your posts.
I'll still have a hard time doing that when you keep Pushing down bleach and only praise OP to no end, excuse me for saying this: It's laughable


----------



## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Well I might already have done it.
> 
> Seriously, if you'll prefeer that direction I suppose I could just ignore your posts.
> I'll still have a hard time doing that when you keep Pushing down bleach and only praise OP to no end, excuse me for saying this: It's laughable



So now you're resorting to use Ad Hominem attacks. First learn how to use fucking punctuation and grammar after that make arguments that dont consist of false logic.

Idiot.


----------



## Ryu19 (Nov 17, 2007)

Calm down. There's no need to get so angry.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 17, 2007)

1st place: Easily Oda.  A lot of his backgrounds and such are just stunning, not to mention the use of shading.  The characters look amazingly done as well.

From there, I can't decide between Kubo's good characters and lack of backgrounds or Kishi's good backgrounds and making Sakura look like a man.


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## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Well Kubo's style is to focus on the character design and expression over backgrounds and at times i appreciate that.
> I suppose in a way you can call Kubo's backgrounds bland, though in a diffrent way when he do draw em:
> Since Kubo makes his backgrounds what should i call it... "to perfect"/ Machine like / Focus on clear cuts.
> He ain't trying to make the Backgrounds as living as the others might i guess.



That is just an excuse on your part for Bleach having shitty backgrounds. Red Herring isn't going to work dumbass.



Akatora said:


> Still Kubo have done something that Oda havn't and seemingly Kishi have only managed RARELY.
> Make a character design look "Scary"/ Cool/ Badass in it's rightfull league.
> Im Talking about the Vaizard mask mainly here.
> By far they look more cool then anything from the 2 others(imo atleast)



First of all explain why the Hollow masks from the Vaizards have a cooler, scarier and a more badass look and design than everything from Naruto or Bleach. Explain why Oda or Kishi lack the capabilities to draw something cool, badass or whatever on a daily basis. Oz for example looks more intimitating than every Hollow shown so far in Bleach.


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## blacklusterseph004 (Nov 17, 2007)

LK said:
			
		

> That is just an excuse on your part for Bleach having shitty backgrounds. Red Herring isn't going to work dumbass.


If you read interviews with Kubo, then you'll realise that what Akatora says is correct. Kubo doesn't feel backgrounds are important to how he wants to  tell his story, so he doesn't spend as much time on them as he does on his characters. You'll find his interviews on BA.


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## Akatora (Nov 17, 2007)

Kamina im sry i don't care enough about gramma, also im sry your getting something else from the text then whats intended.

To be honest your last post made me In a mood i rarely get into at forums, you managed to make me "thrilled"/"excited"/"Curious" and dangerously close at starting a minor flame war just for fun.
I havn't done that in years, so i'll try to keep from it.


About what you mentioned about, how i can say Vaizard masks are cooler looking then anything from Naruto or One Piece:

Excuse me, but are you trying to force your oppinion onto me
Or did you not see, get or understand what IMO means


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## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

blacklusterseph004 said:


> If you read interviews with Kubo, then you'll realise that what Akatora says is correct. Kubo doesn't feel backgrounds are important to how he wants to  tell his story, so he doesn't spend as much time on them as he does on his characters. You'll find his interviews on BA.



Then I'll concede on that point. But I still find the reason from Kubo retarded.



Akatora said:


> Kamina im sry i don't care enough about gramma, also im sry your getting something else from the text then whats intended.
> 
> To be honest your last post made me In a mood i rarely get into at forums, you managed to make me "thrilled"/"excited"/"Curious" and dangerously close at starting a minor flame war just for fun.
> I havn't done that in years, so i'll try to keep from it.
> ...



''Imo'' isn't going to save you from arguing especially when you didn't say it in the post that I quoted.


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## Parallax (Nov 17, 2007)

I seriously don't see why people are saying Hoshino would beat all 3.  She's good at drawing pretty boys and confusing scenes.  How is this good art?


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## Akatora (Nov 17, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> ''Imo'' isn't going to save you from arguing especially when you didn't say it in the post that I quoted.





I don't get it, now you claim im telling a lie when you even quoted the word


Look at your own post or simply look at this :


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## Dimezanime88 (Nov 17, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Misreading what I said is lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is coming from the guy who has been bitching about ad hominems? Right. And yes for your information I am a comic artist. 



> Yes yes, now what are you imposing on me here.
> Are you making more assumptions? Did I say Kishi couldn't draw? Couldn't make a festive color spread? That he NEVER had good backgrounds? That he had static movement for his figures?
> 
> Now lets get to the meat.


The images weren't towards you or your statement. See how easily I can lead you to assumptions now? It was examples against Oda's style in terms of my view and memory. Oda either can't do those or he can't make his characters or fights interesting as that (as far as I can remember). *I'm not the one defending Oda* therefore not my job to give examples *from him* to counter-attack my examples in terms of dynamic poses, action sequences, or background depth. The point of this is for you to prove me how Oda does better with his images. If you want to prove that Oda can do better then *it's your job*. Seriously, what justice would I do in bringing up examples and explaining them if I'm defending against Oda? That's just basically asking me to seek out the worst that I can find since I'm not an average reader of One Piece. Now that I look back, for you to actually consider that Oda can draw females is interesting. Not saying that you said it was better than the other artist, but you said he could draw females. If you consider thin stomachs that make the girls look like they're anorexic but yet at the same time have these huge ass boobs then ok. Not realistic in the sense of proper human anatomy, but ok. And to be clear I know not all of the females of One Piece are like that (but it seems to be every female that actually has a story to do with the One Piece crew, whether friends or enemies). Anyways, I mean for a guy who seems to know big words you sure don't understand how things can be interpreted in many ways. Let me dumb it down for you on what I meant. "Busy" in the sense that his panels are so freaking crowded with unnecessary details that it's hard to understand what's going on in that panel (chaos). "Dull" in the sense that even with those "busy" scenes they're boring because they lack any excitement since one can't understand what's going on. *One leads to the other*. Which was how I got into the whole business situation to begin with. 

Actually, you're right.* I'll show you my examples of "dull and "busy"*:

Busy. It's obvious but since it seems that Oda doesn't want to do transition (opacity) and his inks look the same width, there looks like two Luffys in the splash panel fighting two giants. It would be less chaotic while being obvious if he was to show the transitions.


What the hell is Luffy punching in the 4th panel to the left? Not a lot of details but the object is not obvious enough to make out.


Oda knows that he's confusing and busy with his panels that he even had to make a small drawing of Luffy in order to identify that he's the one that's talking in the 4th middle panel.


What the hell is happening in the first panel? Somethings going on between the two guys but since I can't seem to understand what it is, it doesn't excite me. Busy and dull.


Forget it.


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## Aiee! (Nov 17, 2007)

No poll   ?


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## Parallax (Nov 17, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> Actually, you're right.* I'll show you my examples of "dull and "busy"*:
> 
> *You Cannot Have Dull and Busy at the same time, it's a contradiction, pure and simple*
> 
> ...




You really chose poor examples for showing your definition of busy and dull.  Then again you're not gonna have any good examples, because such a phrase is not feasible


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## MdB (Nov 17, 2007)

Parallax said:


> I seriously don't see why people are saying Hoshino would beat all 3.  She's good at drawing pretty boys and confusing scenes.  How is this good art?



Her art can be breathtaking, too bad it's way to abstract which is the source of confusing scenes and the flood of bishounens disgust me.


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## Zephos (Nov 18, 2007)

Dimezanime18 said:


> That is coming from the guy who has been bitching about ad hominems? Right. And yes for your information I am a comic artist.
> 
> The images weren't towards you or your statement. See how easily I can lead you to assumptions now? It was examples against Oda's style in terms of my view and memory. Oda either can't do those or he can't make his characters or fights interesting as that (as far as I can remember). *I'm not the one defending Oda* therefore not my job to give examples *from him* to counter-attack my examples in terms of dynamic poses, action sequences, or background depth. The point of this is for you to prove me how Oda does better with his images. If you want to prove that Oda can do better then *it's your job*. Seriously, what justice would I do in bringing up examples and explaining them if I'm defending against Oda? That's just basically asking me to seek out the worst that I can find since I'm not an average reader of One Piece. Now that I look back, for you to actually consider that Oda can draw females is interesting. Not saying that you said it was better than the other artist, but you said he could draw females. If you consider thin stomachs that make the girls look like they're anorexic but yet at the same time have these huge ass boobs then ok. Not realistic in the sense of proper human anatomy, but ok. And to be clear I know not all of the females of One Piece are like that (but it seems to be every female that actually has a story to do with the One Piece crew, whether friends or enemies). Anyways, I mean for a guy who seems to know big words you sure don't understand how things can be interpreted in many ways. Let me dumb it down for you on what I meant. "Busy" in the sense that his panels are so freaking crowded with unnecessary details that it's hard to understand what's going on in that panel (chaos). "Dull" in the sense that even with those "busy" scenes they're boring because they lack any excitement since one can't understand what's going on. *One leads to the other*. Which was how I got into the whole business situation to begin with.
> 
> ...



I uh....so are you throwing this post out or ...what?


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## neostar8710 (Nov 18, 2007)

i think oda has the best art, but i dont like how he has to fade around all the characters to distinguish them from the backgrounds cause it makes the panels look really ugly sometimes, but w/e.

i think kishimoto's art kinda sucks now because they seem so blocky. i remember reading that he uses computers to come up with poses and w/e., so i find that cheap, (probably everyone else does too..idk).  and sakura does look like a man in some panels and the hair has gotten so thick and blocky. i think volume 18 in naruto had the best art.

i think kubo tite's art is awesome as well, wwell lately it's been meh.  the style he had for the soul society arc was the best.  

so all in all, i believe kubo and odas art is the best. i wish kishi's art would have stayed the same from volume 18. oh wellz. = /


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## tictactoc (Nov 19, 2007)

I actually have to agree with Dimezanime18 on that, Oda's fighting scene can be really confusing. Kishi used to have the same problem, but by "stretching" the most complex actions on multiple panels, it's way more clear now. Moreover he begun to use some nice and unexpected angles in his fightscenes.


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## Zephos (Nov 19, 2007)

tictactoc said:


> I actually have to agree with Dimezanime18 on that, Oda's fighting scene can be really confusing. Kishi used to have the same problem, but by "stretching" the most complex actions on multiple panels, it's way more clear now. Moreover he begun to use some nice and unexpected angles in his fightscenes.



Again, are any of you reading actual manga pages or grainy scans online?
If the latter do not start talking about confusing panels at all.


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## Mullet_Power (Nov 20, 2007)

I love how he pointed out pictures from 478-479 of One Piece, which blow any recent chapter of naruto or bleach out of the water as far as detail goes.


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## Jicksy (Nov 20, 2007)

Mullet_Power said:


> I love how he pointed out pictures from 478-479 of One Piece, which blow any recent chapter of naruto or bleach out of the water as far as detail goes.



they're good especially the 2-page art, in my opinion oda is the better artist in some areas of drawing while the other two have their own unique areas too.


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## Oda's Boss (Nov 21, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> So now you're resorting to use Ad Hominem attacks. First learn how to use fucking punctuation and grammar after that make arguments that dont consist of false logic.
> 
> Idiot.



Wow, I can't believe your actually so upset over comic book characters. So upset to the point of degrading another member for expressing his/her opinion. 

Even I, Oda's Boss, see the bizarre One Piece character designs have turned alot of folks off. Oda gives off a more cartoonist design for his characters. 

There all good artisits, I like all of them because I read/watch their manga/anime.


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## tictactoc (Nov 22, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Again, are any of you reading actual manga pages or grainy scans online?
> If the latter do not start talking about confusing panels at all.



Duh of course I'm talking about the actual manga pages -_-


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## ryne11 (Nov 23, 2007)

If I say all three suck, do I win? 




Yak said:


> Kazushi Hagiwara.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 23, 2007)

Yoshiki Takaya nuff said.


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## Oda's Boss (Nov 23, 2007)

EVERYONE.....DO THE MARIO!!


----------



## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Nov 23, 2007)

ryne11 said:


> If I say all three suck, do I win?



Well, in fact you do win this .... 
open the spoiler to see what you win 

*Spoiler*: __ 



*YOU WIN A* *BITCHSLAP*




just kidding .... who is  		 		Yoshiki Takaya btw ?


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 23, 2007)

Feanor - The spirit of fire said:


> ]
> Yoshiki Takaya btw ?



The guy who made Guyver.


----------



## Sigbin-Puti (Nov 23, 2007)

out of the 3 i prefer oda i like how he depicts one piece as an adventure u are kinda like taken on a wild ride, seemingly uninteresting little things in the beginning becomes something important. as far as details are concerned oda is the bomb intricate designs of the characters. and its refreshing to see a shonen not over run by bishie every other panel of t3h manga.


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## Byxa (Nov 23, 2007)

i really like Oda's character designs


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## Mat?icha (Nov 23, 2007)

the way i estimate this is how humanoid are charaters.


clearly Oda sucks in this. no offence, to me his art is shit.

Kubo is good, obviously much better than Oda, i think. character design is great.

Kishi is teh best. characters are like real humans - they are real, nothing stupid. i like his art best.


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## Saga-Sama (Nov 23, 2007)

Oda has a more "free" art style. He draws whatever he wants, and it often ends up with ass-ugly people, but well that's up to everyone's taste.

Kubo takes this. Kishimoto would be a great artist actually, but it doesn't work well with a weekly manga like naruto.


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## Yamato-takeru (Nov 23, 2007)

Well, Bleach and One Piece are weekly manga, too, you know?


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## 'REDHAIRED' SHANKS (Nov 24, 2007)

When you are comparing the artworks, character designs are not the only criteria for judgement. Kubo might draw better characters, but he seriously needs lessons in his pacing. Nothing ever happens in Bleach. 
Oda draws really intricate backgrounds. There is so much going on in each chapter ... and OP has the best story of all. And it is not that he cannot draw great character designs ....... Look at Mihawk and Zoro. These are up there when it comes to character designs. And those who say that Oda's artwork is shit, read the whole manga .... you will revise your opinion.
I agree that kishi is good. But not as good as Oda.


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## Amatsu (Nov 24, 2007)

Saga-Sama said:


> Oda has a more "free" art style. He draws whatever he wants, *and it often ends up with ass-ugly people*, but well that's up to everyone's taste.
> 
> Kubo takes this. Kishimoto would be a great artist actually, but it doesn't work well with a weekly manga like naruto.





Mat®icha said:


> the way i estimate this is how humanoid are charaters.
> 
> 
> clearly Oda sucks in this. no offence, *to me his art is shit.*
> ...



So if all One Piece characters were more bishounen than unique would it be considered good art?


----------



## Mat?icha (Nov 24, 2007)

Aethos said:


> So if all One Piece characters were more bishounen than unique would it be considered good art?


 
you?  again?


----------



## Amatsu (Nov 24, 2007)

Mat?icha said:


> you?  again?



Hey I just asked a question. No need to get snippy about it.


----------



## Adachi (Nov 24, 2007)

KLoWn said:


> Tie.
> They're all great, so im not gonna bother trying to decide who's the better one.


QFT

But the best for shonen, I 'll have to say the author of DGM, the artist of ES21, and the artist of Death Note.


----------



## HyperKnuckles22 (Nov 24, 2007)

hell yes Obata beats all three!


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## Ork (Nov 24, 2007)

Yes, If they were all Bishounen, OP would win. Bishies win any and all contests because Hotness>Originality.

But speaking Seriously, I dislike Oda's art style But I like the overall theme of his story, but hey, thats just my opinion, and even if I know my opinion is all that matters, I should make some room for other people too.


----------



## Amatsu (Nov 24, 2007)

Absence said:


> Yes, If they were all Bishounen, OP would win. Bishies win any and all contests because Hotness>Originality.
> 
> But speaking Seriously, I dislike Oda's art style But I like the overall theme of his story, but hey, thats just my opinion, and even if I know my opinion is all that matters, I should make some room for other people too.



Meh I think that even if you hate Oda's art style. You'll eventually get used to it if you try not to dwell too much on the art, and more on the story. That's how it worked for me at least.

Now I'm used to the art style and love it. Whereas before I hated it and thought it was just too weird and bizarre.


----------



## Chee (Nov 24, 2007)

I prefer Kishimoto's art style.


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## kaz (Nov 24, 2007)

Hmm... overall, out of these three, I prefer Kubo, then Kishi, then that guy... Oda.


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## Zephos (Nov 24, 2007)

> the way i estimate this is how humanoid are charaters.


 
Yes Cubists and Impressionists are talentless hacks.
Give me a working defenition of art that places "humanoid looking people" as the ideal and you can get away with this shallow garbage.


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## Inferied (Nov 25, 2007)

Oh!Great > all shounen jumpers.


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## Parallax (Nov 25, 2007)

Inferied said:


> Oh!Great > all shounen jumpers.



Hirohiko Araki proves you wrong on this one...


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## Mat?icha (Nov 25, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Yes Cubists and Impressionists are talentless hacks.
> Give me a working defenition of art that places "humanoid looking people" as the ideal and you can get away with this shallow garbage.


whatever

this is my approach.


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## Zephos (Nov 25, 2007)

Mat?icha said:


> whatever
> 
> this is my approach.



Your approach at what? Bullshit?
Next time keep your opinions out of defenitions of age old controversially defined subjects like art quality and within the realm of "I don't like how that shit looks".
I.O.W, don't go in over your head son, thats how you drown.


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## MdB (Nov 25, 2007)

Inferied said:


> Oh!Great > all shounen jumpers.



This is partially true, however it's the opposite when it comes to writing.


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## Zephos (Nov 25, 2007)

Yes, that is Ghostface Killer, he is a real life badass as compared to your fictional old guy with tubes in his nose.
Probably your worst attempt at flaming yet WHITEs, and thats the top of a long list of fuck-ups.


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## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 25, 2007)

I know who is is son.

Its just that your avatar was a perfect dscription of how my face looked, reading your post.


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## Zephos (Nov 25, 2007)

WHITEBEARD said:


> I know who is is son.
> 
> & I was not trying to flame you.
> 
> Its just that your avatar was a perfect dscription of how my face looked, reading your post.



Fucking up at something one way or another is still fucking up.
You have something to say about my post?


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## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 25, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Fucking up at something one way or another is still fucking up.



You take this too serious.



> You have something to say about my post?



There very nut-gobblingly.


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## Zephos (Nov 25, 2007)

> You take this too serious.



I'm an art student, I can't take the topic seriously enough.



> There very nut-gobblingly.



You have something to say to my posts? Or are you just going to avoid addressing them?


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## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 25, 2007)

Zephos said:


> I'm an art student, I can't take the topic seriously enough.



LOL, your posts on Oda's Nuts tell a diff tale.



> *You have something to say to my posts?* Or are you just going to avoid addressing them?



You really need to work on your understanding.....



			
				WHITEBEARD said:
			
		

> There very nut-gobblingly.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 25, 2007)

Zephos said:


> I'm an art student, I can't take the topic seriously enough.
> 
> 
> 
> You have something to say to my posts? Or are you just going to avoid addressing them?



If you showed the all three shounens to your Professor, would he come to the same conclusion as you?


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Nov 25, 2007)

This thread has gotten awfully heated for such a subjective question.

I think Oda generally has the most detailed and varied backgrounds.  Kubo is a bit too bland for my taste but he does make some very nice looking characters sometimes.  Kishi is very on and off but he usually has about one page/spread per chapter that looks really good.  Kishi can have very bland character designs but he can have some really great ones like Zabuza, Kisame, Zetsu, voodoo Hidan, etc.  I think I prefer Kishi in his good moments to any of them but overall I'd go with Oda.


----------



## Haruko (Nov 25, 2007)

Probably Kubo. I like the style, and some of the characters are really good (Kenpachi)


----------



## Taleran (Nov 25, 2007)

you know what I think may be a factor, after seeing Ninjas and Samurai done better in older manga, Oda's Pirate Epic feels fresh and stays fresh with its artsyle that kicks it out infront of the curve


----------



## Zephos (Nov 25, 2007)

Alright, WHITEBEARD is just going to keep being a puss and not take on my posts so I'll respond when he finds the courage.



Aokiji said:


> If you showed the all three shounens to your Professor, would he come to the same conclusion as you?



Which professor?
On what? Art skill of manga-author? 
Yes.
A good art teacher would look directly at art skills and ignore style. They have to do that with every individual student they have. So you wouldn't see so much as a "OH MAN THIS ONE HAS COOLER IDENTICAL BADASSES THAN THAT ONE", they would home in on things like line-weight, tone, healthy variety, perspective, etc.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 25, 2007)

????? said:


> Alright, WHITEBEARD is just going to keep being a puss and not take on my posts so I'll respond when he finds the courag.



Really, you need to work on your understanding.....



			
				You said:
			
		

> You have something to say to my posts?





			
				Me said:
			
		

> There very nut-gobblingly.



Lets not try to talk about courage, Im not the one who can't handle more then one poster at a time. Or needs back up on the E net, for just one poster.


----------



## Mat?icha (Nov 26, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Your approach at what? Bullshit?
> Next time keep your opinions out of defenitions of age old controversially defined subjects like art quality and within the realm of "I don't like how that shit looks".
> I.O.W, don't go in over your head son, thats how you drown.


 
heyy, shut up bitch. u got problems with my approach? who cares?


----------



## $Naruto19$ (Nov 26, 2007)

Kishimoto fwt!


----------



## Supa Swag (Nov 26, 2007)

^^^Kishimoto 'fucks with tentacles'?


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Nov 26, 2007)

Kakuzu fwt ftw? all joking aside tentacle rape is a menace to society


----------



## Oda's Boss (Nov 26, 2007)

*Searching*



			
				Zephos said:
			
		

> Which professor?
> On what? Art skill of manga-author?
> Yes.
> A good art teacher would look directly at art skills and ignore style. They have to do that with every individual student they have. So you wouldn't see so much as a "OH MAN THIS ONE HAS COOLER IDENTICAL BADASSES THAN THAT ONE", they would home in on things like line-weight, tone, healthy variety, perspective, etc.





Zephos said:


> Yes Cubists and Impressionists are talentless hacks.
> Give me a working defenition of art that places "humanoid looking people" as the ideal and you can get away with this shallow garbage.





			
				Zephos said:
			
		

> Your approach at what? Bullshit?
> Next time keep your opinions out of defenitions of age old controversially defined subjects like art quality and within the realm of "I don't like how that shit looks".
> I.O.W, don't go in over your head son, thats how you drown.



*Found it*



			
				Mat?icha said:
			
		

> hey, shut up bitch.



Really, you should be more relaxed over a debate about members opinions. At the end of the day no one is right or wrong in this thread it all comes down to taste. I like all three of the authors drawings. Hell, I am quite sure all of them have higher wisdom on art then you do.

Oh BTW, can I see one of your drawings, Oda may be in the need for another assistant?


----------



## Mat?icha (Nov 26, 2007)

Oda's Boss said:


> Oh BTW, can I see one of your drawings, Oda may be in the need for another assistant?


 
if u mean my drawing, it's shit too. i cant draw.


----------



## ryne11 (Nov 26, 2007)

I personally prefer Naruto's art, but Enjoy One Piece just as much

Bleach.....meh
Kubo should just design characters for video games or something

I am surethe art in Masashi's next manga will be made of inconceivable win. That is, if he still plans to do "Mario" or whatever that Mafia manga was, or do a Seinen Title.


----------



## Ork (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm not a Manga Author, Nor am I an Artist, The same goes for many of the people in this thread saying "blah blah is better than Blah Blah". Generally the only way we can make opinions on this thread is from Personal Choice, which is hardly an informed opinion worthy of praise from the masses. If you arent an Artist, don't think you know about art, its a rather complicated subject.

And stop the drama, its giving me a Headache, because it isnt even GOOD drama.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 26, 2007)

The problem people seem to have that it is possible for one artist to be truly better than the other...


----------



## Zephos (Nov 26, 2007)

Why hello dupe account.



			
				Oda's Boss said:
			
		

> Really, you should be more relaxed over a debate about members opinions. At the end of the day no one is right or wrong in this thread it all comes down to taste



Well hey, thanks for being a clueless fuckwit.
If youv'e been paying attention instead of saving your buddy like a blind lovestruck white knight than you'd tell I'm going after posts that cross the line of subjective to objective.
People critiscizing art skills rather than talking about styles. Matricha is the most retarded of them being as he's willfully ignoring all logic and defenitions to say what is or isn't art. Of all the people to save you picked the absolute worst.



> I like all three of the authors drawings. Hell, I am quite sure all of them have higher wisdom on art then you do.



That dosen't even make sense as an insult.



> Oh BTW, can I see one of your drawings, Oda may be in the need for another assistant?



So did you also miss the point of the Ad Hominem arguement I had for three pages?
Go back to your normal account and stop making petty Ad Hominems like WHITE and Matricha is you can't actually respond to my points.


----------



## The Sentry (Nov 26, 2007)

Toriyama is the best


----------



## Taleran (Nov 26, 2007)

ITT Zephos is not understood by many.



> I'm not a Manga Author, Nor am I an Artist, The same goes for many of the people in this thread saying "blah blah is better than Blah Blah". Generally the only way we can make opinions on this thread is from Personal Choice, which is hardly an informed opinion worthy of praise from the masses. If you arent an Artist, don't think you know about art, its a rather complicated subject.
> 
> And stop the drama, its giving me a Headache, because it isnt even GOOD drama.




thank you for pointing out the obvious? and noone is forcing you to read through the bad drama, which is a bad term its not even drama its people not comprehending where they are missing the point.


----------



## Oda's Boss (Nov 26, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Why hello dupe account.



Is that what you always say when you get called on your bull? 



> Well hey, thanks for being a clueless fuckwit.
> If youv'e been paying attention instead of saving your buddy like a blind lovestruck white knight than you'd tell *I'm going after posts that cross the line of subjective to objective.**People critiscizing art skills rather than talking about styles*.



And Again,Matricha was totally subjective. Who the hell are you to attack people's opinions? In this entire thread your basically attacking anyone who praises Kubo and Kishimoto and you attack those who don't like Oda's art. If you don't like their approach who cares, you will never sway it.



> Matricha is the most retarded of them being as he's willfully ignoring all logic and defenitions to say what is or isn't art. Of all the people to save you picked the absolute worst.



I ain't trying to save anyone, I just find it funny how you are trying to bash and argue so hard over opinions. 



> That dosen't even make sense as an insult.



It's not an insult, it's a fact.



> So did you also miss the point of the Ad Hominem arguement I had for three pages?
> Go back to your normal account and stop making petty Ad Hominems like WHITE and Matricha is you can't actually respond to my points.



Another cop-out. I didn't attack you, It was a simple joke,  I am Oda's boss! Next time I will put smiley's and write the word JOKE for you so you can understand what's going on.:amazed


----------



## Zephos (Nov 26, 2007)

> ]Is that what you always say when you get called on your bull?



Thats what I say when an account with 22 posts and joined in this month does something dramatic and out of the blue. Don't deny it. Also don't call it bullshit if all your whining.



> And Again,Matricha was totally subjective.



He said One Piece was lesser quality art because it wasn't realistic. I told him to give me a working defenition of art that makes "less realism = bad". He just spammed at me for it.
If he can't back up his claim he shouldn't be making it.
Unless your telling me that the ability to change the defenition of a concept without defining it is A-Ok.



> Who the hell are you to attack people's opinions?



Who the hell are you to tell me I can't? Opinions aren't infalliable.



> In this entire thread your basically attacking anyone who praises Kubo and Kishimoto and you attack those who don't like Oda's art



Bullshit. Again, go back and read it, there are loads of posts I havn't even responded to. Are you going to ignore the fact that the ones I attacked all crossed a line into bullshit? Redefining art? Giving impressions of certain skills they thought Oda lacked or that the other two had? Hell I didn't attack half of them. Some were normal responses.



> If you don't like their approach who cares, you will never sway it.



What the fuck are you doing on a forum if you don't like people disagreeing things and discussing it.



> I ain't trying to save anyone, I just find it funny how you are trying to bash and argue so hard over opinions.



If you found it funny you wouldn't even post. Your clearly playing the knight in shining armor over poor little opinions. Again, opinions aren't infalliable.



> It's not an insult, it's a fact.



Oh rly? Prove it.
Not that it made sense being as artistic wisdom isn't the fucking discussion. Would you even know what artistic wisdom was if you saw it?



> Another cop-out. I didn't attack you, It was a simple joke, I am Oda's boss! Next time I will put smiley's and write the word JOKE for you so you can understand what's going on.:amazed



I need a smily for when people make massive backpedals like this.
It could be on a trike than get all scared, than it could go backwards.
Whoever you are your from Arlong Park and you love beating dead single forum memes to death.


----------



## Oda's Boss (Nov 26, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Thats what I say when an account with 22 posts and joined in this month does something dramatic and out of the blue. Don't deny it. Also don't call it bullshit if all your whining.



It is bull because you think being dramatic is me quoting a member in a forum? I am suppose to do that.



> He said One Piece was lesser quality art because it wasn't realistic. I told him to give me a working defenition of art that makes "less realism = bad". He just spammed at me for it. If he can't back up his claim he shouldn't be making it. Unless your telling me that the ability to change the defenition of a concept without defining it is A-Ok.



Again he also told you that was HIS taste, that's how he feels and see's it. He doesn't have to give you a reason for his opinions.



> Who the hell are you to tell me I can't? Opinions aren't infalliable.



I am Oda boss dammit (Hey a joke)! I am telling you who gives a damn about what people think. That's how they feel and see it they don't need to explain anything to you. Quit acting as if they owe you something because they don't.



> Bullshit. Again, go back and read it, there are loads of posts I havn't even responded to. Are you going to ignore the fact that the ones I attacked all crossed a line into bullshit? Redefining art? *Giving impressions of certain skills they thought Oda lacked or that the other two had? *Hell I didn't attack half of them. Some were normal responses.



No, you merely attacked the one's who expressed an opinion on how the other authors art is better than Oda's. I noticed you aren't attacking anyone's opinions praising Oda art. 



> What the fuck are you doing on a forum if you don't like people disagreeing things and discussing it.



This is nothing but an opinionated thread yet you bash members over that. Their is no right or wrong answer here.This thread is subjective calm your ass down please.



> If you found it funny you wouldn't even post. Your clearly playing the knight in shining armor over poor little opinions. Again, opinions aren't infalliable.



No, I just seen a guy who was bashing a member over what he likes. I didn't save anyone I merely quoted a fellow member in a thread, nothing more.



> Oh rly? Prove it.
> Not that it made sense being as artistic wisdom isn't the fucking discussion. Would you even know what artistic wisdom was if you saw it?



Oda, Kubo, and Kishimoto are getting paid for their drawings. YOU ARE NOT! I can see artistic brilliance, I did hire Oda Eiichiro (ANOTHER JOKE:amazed!)



> I need a smily for when people make massive backpedals like this.
> It could be on a trike than get all scared, than it could go backwards.
> Whoever you are your from Arlong Park and you love beating dead single forum memes to death.



What the hell is Arlong Park?
I Sign the Checks! I am am Oda's Boss(Joke)!!


----------



## The Sentry (Nov 26, 2007)

Toriyama is the best close the thread modz


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 26, 2007)

Fire Fist Ace said:
			
		

> Toriyama is the best



He shits on Oda, even Oda will tell you that.

Its just the guys who have a Man Crush on Oda, who will disagree.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 26, 2007)

Oda's Boss said:


> Again he also told you that was HIS taste, that's how he feels and see's it. He doesn't have to give you a reason for his opinions.
> 
> I am Oda boss dammit (Hey a joke)! I am telling you who gives a damn about what people think. That's how they feel and see it they don't need to explain anything to you. Quit acting as if they owe you something because they don't.




Opinions aren't some Magical bulwark against Reason and Logic, they aren't Great Shields in which to prop up whenever your argument falls through and you need an escape card, opinions everyone can have, proof however is a different matter. Too me it seems like he got asked a simple question and he pulled out his opinions as a defense when he couldn't think of a real answer.


----------



## Ari (Nov 26, 2007)

I like Kishimotos art.


----------



## Senzairu (Nov 26, 2007)

I say Kishi ftw.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> It is bull because you think being dramatic is me quoting a member in a forum? I am suppose to do that.



Starting a fight unprovoked is dramatic.
Your a dupe from Arlong Park. You shouldn't have used the Oda Boss meme.



> Again he also told you that was HIS taste, that's how he feels and see's it. He doesn't have to give you a reason for his opinions.



He wasn't talking about his taste. Read the fucking posts.



> I am Oda boss dammit (Hey a joke)! I am telling you who gives a damn about what people think. That's how they feel and see it they don't need to explain anything to you. Quit acting as if they owe you something because they don't.



If nobody needs to explain anything to me than they don't have to. But nothing is making me not question thier stances.



> No, you merely attacked the one's who expressed an opinion on how the other authors art is better than Oda's. I noticed you aren't attacking anyone's opinions praising Oda art.



I havn't seen any shitty Oda art posts yet. And no. I attacked ones that specified wrong things or things I disagreed with. If I were attacking for what you said then I would have attacked virtually all the posts. Go on, count the people I attacked.



> This is nothing but an opinionated thread yet you bash members over that. Their is no right or wrong answer here.This thread is subjective calm your ass down please.



Opinions aren't infalliable. What fucking part of that don't you get.



> No, I just seen a guy who was bashing a member over what he likes. I didn't save anyone I merely quoted a fellow member in a thread, nothing more.



Will you actually keep track of what your talking about? Or are you that clueless that you don't have an idea what the difference between taste and "REALISM IS HIGHER ART"



> Oda, Kubo, and Kishimoto are getting paid for their drawings. YOU ARE NOT! I can see artistic brilliance, I did hire Oda Eiichiro (ANOTHER JOKE:amazed!)



I said prove to me that they have greater artistic wisdom. You cant. You don't have the means. Drop it before you embarass yourself further.



> What the hell is Arlong Park?
> I Sign the Checks! I am am Oda's Boss(Joke)!!



It would be funny if your actually so lame as to be using a dead meme without knowing where it came from. But who are you really.
Onemoment? Firefist Ace? Ab#z? Phenomnyl? Psolras? WHITEBEARD?


----------



## Mat?icha (Nov 27, 2007)

:rofl
hi Zephos. how u doin? i see u've had very productive day. keep it up


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

Mat?icha said:


> :rofl
> hi Zephos. how u doin? i see u've had very productive day. keep it up



Its amazing how much work and annoyance people who are saying nothing at all and clearly showing they CAN'T say anything can be.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> Starting a fight unprovoked is dramatic.



LMAO! starting a fight? how can you start a fight on the E Net?



> But who are you really.
> Onemoment? Firefist Ace? Ab#z? Phenomnyl? Psolras? WHITEBEARD?



Why would I make a dupe, when I been saying your on Oda's nuts, in this thread the whole time?

Your Paranoid on the E Net.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm sick and tired of this bullshit. It's his opinion......

So in my opinion, I'm the best artist in the world. (I can't draw for shit) You disagree? STFU, it's my opinion.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

Aokiji said:


> I'm sick and tired of this bullshit. It's his opinion......
> 
> So in my opinion, I'm the best artist in the world. (I can't draw for shit) You disagree? STFU, it's my opinion.



Haha, wow, you don't really believe saying "this is my opinion" really makes you suddenly completely rightfully safe from all commentary/critiscism do you? Especially with a comment like that.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> LMAO! starting a fight? how can you start a fight on the E Net?



Yes, nothing this thread needs more than somebody playing stupid to start a semantics arguement based off being an autistic moron who only uses words to describe events in real life.



> Why would I make a dupe, when I been saying your on Oda's nuts, in this thread the whole time?
> 
> Your Paranoid on the E Net.



1. Well you already smashed your "honorable" anti-rep stance by negging me yesterday so really I don't see why a dupe would be so low for your standards.

2. If I'm on Oda's nuts than prove it by showing my posts are bull. You made it clear on the last page that you thought Kishi was better. But you still won't actually confront my posts. If you don't have anything to say than why are you still posting? 
(And no saying "lol on nutz" isn't saying anything)


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> Yes.



LMAO! a "fight" on the E NET,  "I attack" its just a guy who disagree with your bull shit.

Only a Paranoid Emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), who thinks a member quoting him is doing "something dramatic and out of the blue."





> 1. Well you already smashed your "honorable" anti-rep stance by negging me yesterday so really I don't see why a dupe would be so low for your standards.



Oh, is your feelings hurt? here let me go +Rep a few other members so that I can +Rep you. Really now you wanna talk about low? Im not the one that needs help from AP ever time I get my ass kicked in a debate.

Again stop we already had this chat.



> 2. If I'm on Oda's nuts than prove it by showing my posts are bull.



Ok, look here.



> *You made it clear on the last page that you thought Kishi was better. But you still won't actually confront my posts.*



Your on Oda's Nuts so hard that you think, I think Kishi art or Kubo art is better, when I have posted no such thing nor have implyed it.


----------



## Aokiji (Nov 27, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Haha, wow, you don't really believe saying "this is my opinion" really makes you suddenly completely rightfully safe from all commentary/critiscism do you? Especially with a comment like that.



You need to use your sarcasm detector.......I was showing what his interpretation of opinion would amount to, if we followed his train of thought.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

Apolgoies Aokiji.



> LMAO! a "fight" on the E NET,  "I attack" its just a guy who disagree with your bull shit.
> 
> Only a Paranoid Emo ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".), who thinks a member quoting him is doing "something dramatic and out of the blue."



So tell me oh autistic-interpretations-of-words-man what part of the defenitions of those two words did I misuse?
Oda Boss used the word "attack" first so you should take it up on him.



> Oh, is your feelings hurt? here let me go +Rep a few other members so that I can +Rep you. Really now you wanna talk about low?



That really does nothing toward fixing the fact that you completely threw your "i don care about no rep" creedo in the trash does it.



> Im not the one that needs help from AP ever time I get my ass kicked in a debate.



I'm not the one who gangs up with my retard friends on single people than bitches whenever the single guy gets his pals to spam away the friends so its one on one focus again.



> Again stop we already had this chat.



You just started it lol.





> Ok, look here.
> 
> Your on Oda's Nuts so hard that you think, I think Kishi art or Kubo art is better, when I have posted no such thing nor have implyed it.



Must have mixed you up with Phenomonyl, my easy mistake.
Still your just making Ad Hominems without confronting anything I say.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> So tell me oh autistic-interpretations-of-words-man what part of the defenitions of those two words did I misuse?
> Oda Boss used the word "attack" first so you should take it up on him.



But you used "Fight" & "something dramatic and out of the blue." 



> That really does nothing toward fixing the fact that you completely threw your "i don care about no rep" creedo in the trash does it.



I don't care about Rep......but you do, thats the reason why I negged you.



> I'm not the one who gangs up with my retard friends on single people than bitches whenever the single guy gets his pals to spam away the friends so its one on one focus again.



LMAO, Once again you lie. We have already had this Chat son.



> Must have mixed you up with Phenomonyl, my easy mistake.
> Still your just making Ad Hominems without confronting anything I say.



I said your on Oda's Nuts......you asked me to prove it, I did. Argument over, or "fight" as you like to call it.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> But you used "Fight" & "something dramatic and out of the blue."



Did I say I didn't?



> I don't care about Rep......but you do, thats the reason why I negged you.



You don't care about rep, but you used it to get revenge on somebody you didn't like after they negged you.
Explain that one to me again.



> LMAO, Once again you lie. We have already had this Chat son.



Your the one that brought gang-tatics into this. Don't deny it.



> I said your on Oda's Nuts......you asked me to prove it, I did. Argument over, or "fight" as you like to call it.



IWhen and where did you prove that everything I say is just nut grubbing. If you can't prove my points are non-legit than its just an Ad Hominem.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> Did I say I didn't?



It still prove my point.



> You don't care about rep, but you used it to get revenge on somebody you didn't like after they negged you.Explain that one to me again.



Work on your understanding.



			
				WHITEBEARD said:
			
		

> I don't care about Rep......but you do, thats the reason why I negged you.





> Your the one that brought gang-tatics into this. Don't deny it.



LMAO! you lie yet again.



> IWhen and where did you prove that everything I say is just nut grubbing.



Work on your understanding again.



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Ok, look here.





			
				You said:
			
		

> *You made it clear on the last page that you thought Kishi was better. But you still won't actually confront my posts.*





			
				Me said:
			
		

> Your on Oda's Nuts so hard that you think, I think Kishi art or Kubo art is better, when I have posted no such thing nor have implyed it.


----------



## $Naruto19$ (Nov 27, 2007)

Oda- 20 votes
Kubo- 35 votes
Kishimoto -it's over nine thousand 

Kishimoto wins


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> It still prove my point.



When did you do that?



> Work on your understanding.



Oh I understand perfectly. The bullshit your spewing to cover yourself here is just what's baffling. 



> LMAO! you lie yet again.



Nope. Go back. You were the first to mention that whole gang issue here.
I assure you. If I did find me the quote.



> Work on your understanding again.



That proves I misread your post, and it certainly makes me suspicious of really disliking Kishi, which is true to an extent. But Oda isn't so much as mentioned there. In fact most of what Iv'e posted has been against Kishi and   Kubo rather than for Oda.
In fact I do think Oda is a better artist than Toriyama.
What of that?
Wanna actually engage in a debate for once?
I'm tired of this semantics crap, Toriyama Vs. Oda is at least slightly on topic.

Though niether hold a candle to artists like Miura, Inoue, Otomo, and such.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> When did you do that?



LMAO, are you that slow? really now, do you need me to explain son?



> Oh I understand perfectly. The bullshit your spewing to cover yourself here is just what's baffling.



"Cover myself?" WTF? If I knew negging your azz would piss you off this much I would have done it sooner.



> Nope. Go back. You were the first to mention that whole gang issue here.
> I assure you. If I did find me the quote.



Wrong son, don't try act dumb. I was letting you know that you have no right to say Im low when you use "gang-tatics" on the E Net. 



> *That proves I misread your post*, and it certainly makes me suspicious of really disliking Kishi, which is true to an extent. But Oda isn't so much as mentioned there. In fact most of what Iv'e posted has been against Kishi and Kubo rather than for Oda.
> *In fact I do think Oda is a better artist than Toriyama.
> What of that?*



You didn't misread anything, stop trying to cover your azz.

Oda doesn't.




> Wanna actually engage in a debate for once?



I don't take you serious remember?:sleepy


----------



## Kuroro (Nov 27, 2007)

Megaharrison said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with what this guy has said.


----------



## MdB (Nov 27, 2007)

$Naruto19$ said:


> Oda- 20 votes
> Kubo- 35 votes
> Kishimoto -it's over nine thousand
> 
> Kishimoto wins



I'll guess this should be moment where everyone should laugh there fucking ass of. AMIRITE?


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> LMAO, are you that slow? really now, do you need me to explain son?



No, I know that you ruined your rep chastity and are trying to desperatly come up with a reason it didn't count. Your like a teenager who had oral sex trying to say they never had sex ebcause the act they did didn't count.



> "Cover myself?" WTF? If I knew negging your azz would piss you off this much I would have done it sooner.



Exactly you used the rep system. You were a vanguard of "hohoho I am above the rep system". And beleive me nothing was better than seeing the stalwart anti-rep guy being so pissed that he broke his vows.



> Wrong son, don't try act dumb. I was letting you know that you have no right to say Im low when you use "gang-tatics" on the E Net.



You just admitted to bringing it up lol. At least have the decency to admit your wrong, I did after saying you said you liked Kishi better than Oda.



> Oda doesn't.



Even if thats true I don't see why it would matter.



> I don't take you serious remember?:sleepy



Yet your going on page long arguements with me.
You say alot of things WHITEs, but you do precious few of them.


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

> No, I know that you ruined your *rep* chastity and are trying to desperatly come up with a reason it didn't count. Your like a teenager who had oral sex trying to say they never had sex ebcause the act they did didn't count.
> 
> Exactly you used the *rep system*. You were a vanguard of "hohoho I am above the *rep system*". And beleive me nothing was better than seeing the stalwart anti-rep guy being so pissed that he broke his vows.



LOL! how am I pissed? your the one *COMPLAINING* about your Rep. 



> *You just admitted to bringing it up lol. At least have the decency to admit your wrong* I did after saying you said you liked Kishi better than Oda.



Oh, my bad.



> Even if thats true I don't see why it would matter.



It does.



> *Yet your going on page long arguements with me*.
> You say alot of things WHITEs, but you do precious few of them.



LOL! The argument was over, its been over. your the one who keeps quoting me tryin to redeem himself.


----------



## Zephos (Nov 27, 2007)

> LOL! how am I pissed? your the one *COMPLAINING* about your Rep.



Where did I express sadness about it? I just brought it up because of your former stance on it.



> It does.



How? Are you saying if an artist states another guy is better or worse than them than its inarguably true? Haha, if only.
Also show me when he said it.



> LOL! The argument was over, its been over. your the one who keeps quoting me tryin to redeem himself.



Whatever way you see it your still spending your time and effort on someone you "don't take seriously".


----------



## WHITEBEARD inactive (Nov 27, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Where did I express sadness about it? I just brought it up because of your former stance on it.



Yet you knew nothing about my stance on Rep.
Looking back at your last post.



> How? Are you saying if an artist states another guy is better or worse than them than its inarguably true? Haha, if only. Also show me when he said it.



Its Canon. Go look for it.



> Whatever way you see it your still spending your time and effort on someone you "don't take seriously".



Yea, & as you can see & as many others can see, by my respones, I have yet to take you serious.


----------



## Stark_Darko (Nov 28, 2007)

Yeah,anywaay.... Right now Kubo is the better artist.


----------



## Darts (Nov 28, 2007)

Adding LOLS! and smileys to every post is like the worst way to cover your "carelessness". ;((


----------



## Vandal Savage (Nov 29, 2007)

Oda > KishI >Kubo in my opinion.


----------



## Master Bait (Nov 29, 2007)

i can't believe this thread is still alive~! this is like a cockroach.


----------



## MdB (Nov 29, 2007)

Stark_Darko said:


> Yeah,anywaay.... Right now Kubo is the better artist.



And without a doubt, draws the most breathtaking backgrounds from those 3 AMIRITE?


----------



## Sylar (Nov 29, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> And without a doubt, draws the most breathtaking backgrounds from those 3 AMIRITE?



Don't forget the huge differences in the characters.


----------



## KLoWn (Nov 29, 2007)

Oda's balls is teh tastiest ones! 
AMIRITE?!


----------



## Zephos (Nov 29, 2007)

KLoWn said:


> Oda's balls is teh tastiest ones!
> AMIRITE?!



Ad Hominems instead of rebuttals amirite?


----------



## KLoWn (Nov 29, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Ad Hominems instead of rebuttals amirite?


w00t? I was just stating my love for Oda's balls, can't help it if you felt hit by it


----------



## Taleran (Nov 29, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Don't forget the huge differences in the characters.




or the dynamic suspensful plot lines


----------



## Akatora (Nov 29, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Don't forget the huge differences in the characters.



Well what did you expect?
Most of Kubo's characters have looks that might be possible in reallity, and so The bodys are resembling real people more then in OP.
Granted there's to many People that could had been models compared to the amount of characters in the serie.


If your talking about Faces, well every mangaka got there trade mark expressions I could find pictures of Luffy & Nami with the same face.

Take a look at the hollows if you want variation.



AS for the supposely bad background look at the colorspreds like the one at the Lake.
Might not have to much on it but the bg looks real enough and stylish at the same time.


----------



## Blind Weasel (Nov 29, 2007)

kishimoto?...

Seishi or Masashi?...


oh wait... both are really similar ...


----------



## Parallax (Nov 29, 2007)

Blind Itachi said:


> kishimoto?...
> 
> Seishi or Masashi?...
> 
> ...



At least Seishi can draw his women...


----------



## Zephos (Nov 29, 2007)

Klown said:
			
		

> w00t? I was just stating my love for Oda's balls, can't help it if you felt hit by it



Babies first sarcasm amirite?



			
				Akatora said:
			
		

> Well what did you expect?
> Most of Kubo's characters have looks that might be possible in reallity, and so The bodys are resembling real people more then in OP.



Have you ever looked at....people?
People aren't readily similar unless you take an incredibly homogenous bunch. And again, this is still Kubo's problem. Much more realistic mangas have more creatively different looking people than Bleach. Akira for big instance. Nezu's men are the epitome of this. They have blander clothing and decals than any Bleach character but are all immediatly distinctive from eachother. This just isn't an exscuse.



> Take a look at the hollows if you want variation.



I will respect this. This is true, the hollow designs are pretty cool and creative.



> AS for the supposely bad background look at the colorspreds like the one at the Lake.



But if a guys best background work is in colorspreads he's helpless against people who reguraly ahve great ones in the actual comic (Oda) and people who can pull them off every once in awhile in the comic (Kishi).


----------



## Akatora (Nov 29, 2007)

Well how many characters are there in Akira?



Still if you look at em seperately: Ichigo, Kaien, Hisagi & Accido to name a couple are looking more similar then they should, I'll give you that.



Same stuff happens in reallity mainly between kids, I remember people asking me several times about if someone were my brother... 
And how much did i have in common with those guys? 
Same hair color and the same headgear... -_-
Yeah right we look alike


----------



## Zephos (Nov 29, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Well how many characters are there in Akira?



The guys I'm using as example are cannon fodder dudes of little importance of which there are about 30.


----------



## Akatora (Nov 29, 2007)

Not a bad amount, still every Auther leaves there mark one way or the other, just a matter of how easy it is to see.


----------



## Taleran (Nov 29, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Not a bad amount, still every Auther leaves there mark one way or the other, just a matter of how easy it is to see.





you could try, you know actually reading AKIRA and seeing for yourself


----------



## Parallax (Nov 29, 2007)

What Taleran said, read AKIRA before you make assumptions.  Hell you should read any series before you make assumptions about them.


----------



## Sylar (Nov 29, 2007)

LOL at Luffy and Nami having the same design.


----------



## Akatora (Nov 29, 2007)

Sylar said:


> LOL at Luffy and Nami having the same design.





Did you even read the whole post?
I said there faces looks strikingly similar at times because the auther/drawers all have there trade marks of how they draw an expression.


THen again they have somewhat the same arms, legs & feet the main diffrence beeing there body shape wherre The women are pearformed and the guys are box formed.


----------



## MdB (Nov 30, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Did you even read the whole post?
> I said there faces looks strikingly similar at times because the auther/drawers all have there trade marks of how they draw an expression.
> 
> 
> *THen again they have somewhat the same arms, legs & feet the main diffrence beeing there body shape wherre The women are pearformed and the guys are box formed*.



So body anatomy is a new fresh thing for you. 



Taleran said:


> or the dynamic suspensful plot lines



Or dynamic characters that actually change during the course of the (shitty) story. Instead of this static and flat borderline crap that are distinguished by there lack of personality, motives and every other feature that ''should'' make them interesting. HI THAR AIZEN!!!!!!!1111!!!!1


----------



## Master Bait (Nov 30, 2007)

Kamina sure knows how to piss people.


----------



## Sylar (Nov 30, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> So body anatomy is a new fresh thing for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Or dynamic characters that actually change during the course of the (shitty) story. Instead of this static and flat borderline crap that are distinguished by there lack of personality, motives and every other feature that ''should'' make them interesting. HI THAR AIZEN!!!!!!!1111!!!!1



Kubo Tite is teh greatest author EVAR!!11


----------



## Master Bait (Nov 30, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Kubo Tite is teh greatest author EVAR!!11



Rumiko Takahashi begs to disagree.


----------



## Parallax (Nov 30, 2007)

Master Bait said:


> Rumiko Takahashi begs to disagree.



I see wut u did thar


----------



## Master Bait (Nov 30, 2007)

Thugnificent said:


> I see wut u did thar



i did a time paradox.


----------



## MdB (Nov 30, 2007)

Master Bait said:


> Kamina sure knows how to piss people.



That's because I think a certain someone around here is a fucking idiot.



Sylar said:


> Kubo Tite is teh greatest author EVAR!!11



It's hard enough for me to comprehend that there are actual idiots who still believe in that delusional bullshit. So, yeah. I guess that it is still valid


----------



## Akatora (Nov 30, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> That's because I *think* a certain someone around here is a fucking idiot.





Well I take that your thinking about me, well it's an improvement that you placed a word such as think.

Im not sure how this came to look like i was looking down on Akira it was more i used it as a random comparison since someone else mentioned it. 
The more characters there are in a serie the more likely the same face is to show up again.
This stuff should be common logic yet im afraid some here gained another mening from what i wrote, again... -_-



Well... perhaps it's me that is bad at expressing myself and you whom is bad as reading those expressions, which leads to you jumping to wrong conclusions again and again.

There seem to be a good amount of people that got the same problem as you also i real life when trying to follow my thinking, though there's alot that can follow it aswell.


----------



## Sylar (Nov 30, 2007)

Neji

Show me a page spread that can compare to this one in Naruto or Bleach.


----------



## KLoWn (Nov 30, 2007)

Sylar said:


> RS
> 
> Show me a page spread that can compare to this one in Naruto or Bleach.


RS


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Nov 30, 2007)

I'd go for one of these:



*Spoiler*: __ 








Here are some nice single page pictures:




A different style than Oda but I think they're pretty impressive.


----------



## King Bookah (Dec 1, 2007)

Now Kishi and Kubo are definitely not top tier artists, but people need to get of Oda's dick as well.  Sorry, he's great and all, but the guys not a god, big shocker I know.  

And it doesn't help that people compare im to the alleged trash that is Kubo and Kishi.  It's like saying Mario Galaxy is better than Superman 64.  C'mon guys, make it interesting.


----------



## Snakety69 (Dec 1, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Dub Floyd Presents - The Official Boondocks Mixtape (Hosted by Asheru)
> 
> Show me a page spread that can compare to this one in Naruto or Bleach.







These 2 spreads are downright fuckin sexy if you ask me.


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Wow nice to see sarcasm is noticed on the boards. 

I WAS JOKING. Can't believe you guys actually got spreads.


----------



## spaZ (Dec 1, 2007)

Probably Kubo is one of the better artists I find.


----------



## Master Bait (Dec 1, 2007)

spaZ said:


> Probably Kubo is one of the better artists I find.



wait for Kamina to say something about this.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Dec 1, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Wow nice to see sarcasm is noticed on the boards.
> 
> I WAS JOKING. Can't believe you guys actually got spreads.



Wasn't really funny...Though I was wondering if you actually thought that was his greatest spread.

I just though Kishi needed a little love in this thread honestly.


----------



## Houkou Ookami (Dec 1, 2007)

Out of those three...I don't really know.  They're all different in a way that makes them hard to compare. All I know is, it's close between Kishimoto and Kubo for first...Or maybe not.. I really don't know Dx
I can say, however, that I'm pretty sure my favorite manga artist would be...Minekura?  Though definitely not heavy on backgrounds, the overall art style in Saiyuki is wonderful, I think.​


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Master Bait said:


> wait for Kamina to say something about this.



What can I say about overrated thrash like Bleach with a storyline that an 6 year old kid can fart out of his ass. Storytelling isn't even needed in Bleach.


----------



## Master Bait (Dec 1, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> What can I say about overrated thrash like Bleach with a storyline that an 6 year old kid can fart out of his ass. Storytelling isn't even needed in Bleach.



*BRAVOOOO~!!!!*​
as expected from Kamina... i'm sooo proud.


----------



## HyperKnuckles22 (Dec 1, 2007)

> What can I say about overrated thrash like Bleach with a storyline that an 6 year old kid can fart out of his ass. Storytelling isn't even needed in Bleach



the same could be said for dbz.


----------



## hgfdsahjkl (Dec 1, 2007)

all of them are amazing with amazing manga i cant choose


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

HyperKnuckles22 said:


> the same could be said for dbz.



I'm talking about the mangas here.....


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 1, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> What can I say about overrated thrash like Bleach with a storyline that an 6 year old kid can fart out of his ass. Storytelling isn't even needed in Bleach.



Please tell me what this has to do with art.


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Aokiji said:


> Please tell me what this has to do with art.



Nothing....


----------



## Prowler (Dec 1, 2007)

*In my opinion Kubo is the best...
I don't like bleach story but I love the Art.*


----------



## Aokiji (Dec 1, 2007)

OK, most here think that Oda>the other two. But who of the other two is better? I know that Kubo laxks backgroundz, but Kishimoto's characters tend to suck a little. Who is superior of these two. (and please, try to forget about your bias for a moment)


----------



## Akatora (Dec 1, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> What can I say about overrated thrash like Bleach with a storyline that an 6 year old kid can fart out of his ass. Storytelling isn't even needed in Bleach.




Actually that sound more like OP the first part and the 6 year old farting a story out of the ass would hardly be seen as something suppirsing in OP.


Bleach is Action centered not Plot, Look at Zombie Powder which likely had more of a plot then Bleach.

Quote from Kubo:

"Mainly, it's all battles. It's completly ok to just read through it without thinking about anything. But if you feel like it, go ahead and recall some of these details as you read"


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Actually that sound more like OP the first part and the 6 year old farting a story out of the ass would hardly be seen as something suppirsing in OP.



Explain it, Oda actually put thought into his world to let it breathe.



Akatora said:


> Bleach is Action centered not Plot, Look at Zombie Powder which likely had more of a plot then Bleach.
> 
> Quote from Kubo:
> 
> "Mainly, it's all battles. It's completly ok to just read through it without thinking about anything. But if you feel like it, go ahead and recall some of these details as you read"



Every medium of storytelling contains a plot, it's up to the author to make it good or not. If Bleach is only action driven, he could try harder to make the individual skillset and basic abilities more interesting than this generic energy blast festival. And considering the action is the only imporant part of Bleach.... I'll guess the idiotic melodramatic character development that for example Orohime had would be useless and pointless.



Aokiji said:


> OK, most here think that Oda>the other two. But who of the other two is better? I know that Kubo laxks backgroundz, but Kishimoto's characters tend to suck a little. Who is superior of these two. (and please, try to forget about your bias for a moment)



I would say Kishimoto, both can put out interesting and bland designs, but at least Kishimoto can still draw impressive backgrounds. When the guy actually tries, his originality and creativity far surpassess Kubo.


----------



## Canute87 (Dec 1, 2007)

Kubo Definatley.One piece art style doesn't really draw me in(Except for robin)


----------



## Luckyday (Dec 1, 2007)

Zephos said:


> Akira (your sig) is a great example.
> Otomo dosen't really have any fantastical characters designs whatsoever (a few weirdos in the second part at most) because of course aside from crazy psychic powers and some slightly future technology theres nothing at all fictional about Akira's world in art or plot.
> But his character designs are more varied than Kubo's in subtle ways.
> There's an entire platoon of guys with the same color hair and basic hair style and exact same clothing in the 3rd book (Nezu's private army) but each is distinct from eachother in suprisingly subtle ways. All of which are essentially cannon fodder around for a brief time.
> ...



I really like when artists focus more on body type/facial features when drawing anime chracters.


----------



## Ork (Dec 1, 2007)

Taleran said:


> ITT Zephos is not understood by many.
> 
> thank you for pointing out the obvious? and noone is forcing you to read through the bad drama, which is a bad term its not even drama its people not comprehending where they are missing the point.



Frankly, as for pointing out the obvious, after reading this thread from start to finish, I think some of the people here could USE it, thats not even considering the lack of common sense, worthless posts and general Dramamaking.  And you're right, Zephos isnt understood, there isnt anything to understand, he's a wannabe troll farming posts and defending his "epeen".

And lol at that not being drama.


----------



## Akatora (Dec 1, 2007)

Lord Kamina said:


> Explain it, Oda actually put thought into his world to let it breathe.




Really, so thats why you could actuially skip some arcs and not feel like you've really missed anything?
OP ain't bad it's just way, way WAY to overrated.


As for bleach yeah, Kubo pick the easy way many times, but atleast he makes it so that there's damn many possible ways it could had gone, though never will.

Personally i'd place OP around 10'th spot of the current Shounen jump series in how much it interests me perhaps alittle lower.
Bleach might be overrated at places aswell, so will anything with a big enough fandom in the area.


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Really, so thats why you could actuially skip some arcs and not feel like you've really missed anything?
> OP ain't bad it's just way, way WAY to overrated.
> 
> 
> ...



Please tell me what arc you could skip and not miss anything exactly?

And what 9 (?!) series in Shonen Jump would you put ahead of it?


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Really, so thats why you could actuially skip some arcs and not feel like you've really missed anything?
> OP ain't bad it's just way, way WAY to overrated.
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations you just showed how ignorant you are. You can't skip between arcs and still know what the hell is going on. The counter argument about Bleach having the possibilities to go many ways is irrrelevent because you know, it didn't.... And what the hell are you blabbering about with ''Bleach MIGHT be overrated, but One Piece is WAY to overrated''.  HELLO THAR MISTER HYPOCRITE WITH DOUBLE STANDARDS.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 1, 2007)

Wait you can skip One Piec arcs and not miss much?  You serious?


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Thugnificent said:


> Wait you can skip One Piec arcs and not miss much?  You serious?



Actually you can't. No way in Hell.


----------



## Parallax (Dec 1, 2007)

Yeah I didn't think so.


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

You can't.


----------



## Akatora (Dec 1, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Please tell me what arc you could skip and not miss anything exactly?
> 
> And what 9 (?!) series in Shonen Jump would you put ahead of it?




Series from current Jump i'd be more likely to read before if ever returning to OP:

No order:

-Psyren 
-Bleach
-Naruto
-Gintama
-Reborn
-ES21
-KochiKame
-Neuro
-D.Gray-man
-To-LOVE-Ru
-HxH
-Mx0


Well seem that it was more now that HxH has gained some of my curiousity and Psyren started.


Well The mini arc with the Battle of the 2 Giants for instance. Hmm... well they might have returne later though, atleast i recall The strawhats getting some giant help at the Government fortress/prison.


Kamina, 
You don't seem to understand my personallity, the more people praise one thing and shits on another the more against the praised thing i become.
Most of the times i've had these OP vs Bleach discussions with you are results of that if you just praised OP fine.
Praise OP without beeing able to come with much critict at it and then only focus on what you don't like about Bleach...
That is what makes me reply stuff hitting down at OP.






> WITH DOUBLE STANDARDS



Yes you got a problem with that


Just because i don't have a completly onesided point of view


Here's some exsamples of stuff you might be to fast to jump to conclusions about:


*Spoiler*: __ 



Someone asked me:

Do you even read One Piece:

I answered:

No i don't read One Piece


From that kind of reply thetre seem to be alot of people that already misunderstand me.


Since no i do not read One Piece i read One Piece.


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

> Well The mini arc with the Battle of the 2 Giants for instance. Hmm... well they might have returne later though, atleast i recall The strawhats getting some giant help at the Government fortress/prison.



Except that you miss the introduction of the giants (which plays a role in the Enies Lobby arc), Mr. 3 and Miss Goldenweek (which plays a role in the Alabasta arc), and the ultimate fates of Mr. 3, Miss Goldenweek, Ms. Valentines Day, and Mr. 5 (which plays into a cover story arc and possibly a an anime filler later on.

Not to mention that Nami catches that 100 year old disease from Little Garden which was the reason the SHs had to stop at Drum Island looking for a doctor.

I won't even get into you trying to say Naruto and Bleach are better than One Piece.


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Akatora said:


> Kamina, You don't seem to understand my personallity, the more people praise one thing and shits on other the more against the praised thing i become.
> Most of the times i've had these OP vs Bleach discussions with you are results of that if you just praised OP fine.
> Praise OP without beeing able to come with much critict at it and then only focus on what you don't like about Bleach...
> That is what makes me reply stuff hitting down at OP.




I never praised One Piece like it is some divine message from god. You on the other hand just made a Straw Man argument dumbass.




Akatora said:


> Yes you got a problem with that
> 
> 
> Just because i don't have a completly onesided point of view
> ...



Learn what double standards are....


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Actually you can't. No way in Hell.



shhhnobody tell Alfred Kahn


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Admiral Akainu said:


> shhhnobody tell Alfred Kahn



KHAAAAAAAAANNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2007)

yeah skipping the dragon filler arc wasn't that bad other dubs have skipped fillers too but skipping Little Garden and Laboon was just stupid.

Which is weird cause YuGiOh kept all it's fillers (but then again the YGO anime is 60% filler)


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Admiral Akainu said:


> yeah skipping the dragon filler arc wasn't that bad other dubs have skipped fillers too but skipping Little Garden and Laboon was just stupid.
> 
> Which is weird cause YuGiOh kept all it's fillers (but then again the YGO anime is 60% filler)



Apparently they wanted to get to Chopper faster. 

'Grand Line disease' my ass.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 1, 2007)

yeah and making Laboon an iceberg was just, gah.  It was only two episodes? 

also yeah and the fact that Little Garden was removed resulted in the stupidest monologue in the history of all anime ever


----------



## Sylar (Dec 1, 2007)

Admiral Akainu said:


> yeah and making Laboon an iceberg was just, gah.  It was only two episodes?
> 
> also yeah and the fact that Little Garden was removed resulted in the stupidest monologue in the history of all anime ever



It wasn't the Laboon iceberg that got me. It was the retarded way they got the Log Pose.


----------



## MdB (Dec 1, 2007)

Stop hating on 4kids.


----------



## Sasaki Kojirō (Dec 1, 2007)

I figured they cut out Little Garden because there was a lot of violence and some would be really hard to edit.

The dub was atrocious though...the whole feel of the series was somehow ruined.  Must have been all the terrible puns.


----------



## Giorno Giovannax (Dec 1, 2007)

The Faint Smile said:


> I figured they cut out Little Garden because there was a lot of violence and some would be really hard to edit.
> 
> The dub was atrocious though...the whole feel of the series was somehow ruined.  Must have been all the terrible puns.



Thank God for Funimation!


----------



## Akatora (Dec 1, 2007)

Sylar said:


> Except that you miss the introduction of the giants (which plays a role in the Enies Lobby arc), Mr. 3 and Miss Goldenweek (which plays a role in the Alabasta arc), and the ultimate fates of Mr. 3, Miss Goldenweek, Ms. Valentines Day, and Mr. 5 (which plays into a cover story arc and possibly a an anime filler later on.
> 
> Not to mention that Nami catches that 100 year old disease from Little Garden which was the reason the SHs had to stop at Drum Island looking for a doctor.
> 
> I won't even get into you trying to say Naruto and Bleach are better than One Piece.




I recall bits of those parts, but thats it, like you quoted i did recall something about Giants and that Enies area.
THe others are ever futher away in the memory, remembering a chapter that took a few min to read without catching much interested around a year ago... Well Im glad i had holes in the memory

I recall Nami getting sick, but nothing about how. Guess to make it simple I lost interested in OP, even though i never were a diehard fan as many here, i was normal into the serie... Till i got sick of it.



Well here's some reasons:


-Psyren (New serie looks interesting)
-Bleach(Style as some here at NF made me accept beeing the main reason)
-Naruto(Know many that follow it so can speak with)
-Gintama(Really fun)
-Reborn(Not a bad storyline, seem promising)
-ES21(Hiruma and the off field stuff)
-KochiKame(Classic)
-Neuro(Original and some thinking)
-D.Gray-man(Story & drama)
-To-LOVE-Ru(Humor & Fanservice)
-HxH(curiousity)
-Mx0(Humor and nice seeing simple solutions beeing used this effective)


----------



## King Bookah (Dec 1, 2007)

Haha, I knew this thread was gonna turn sour the minute you put Naruto together with One Piece.  Happens every time

And I'll say it, Early Naruto art>>>>>>One Piece art.  Once Sasuke Rescue, Part 2 hit, One Piece art>>>>>>>Naruto


----------



## Akatora (Dec 1, 2007)

Well i did not say I found Naruto better then OP to be honest i see em as about even, each having good and bad parts obviously.
I listed em after how likely i am to read em and in my latest post I add the diffrent reason to me placing em higher.


And yeah i'd rather talk with friends about Naruto then talk with friends about One Piece since most people i know that "Know" OP don't like it.


----------



## Zephos (Dec 2, 2007)

Absence said:


> Frankly, as for pointing out the obvious, after reading this thread from start to finish, I think some of the people here could USE it, thats not even considering the lack of common sense, worthless posts and general Dramamaking.  And you're right, Zephos isnt understood, there isnt anything to understand, he's a wannabe troll farming posts and defending his "epeen".
> 
> And lol at that not being drama.



Why is it always the butthurt whining about e-drama?
Stop vomiting irony on the thread.


----------



## YamiHikari (Dec 30, 2007)

Inuhanyou said:


> artistry has nothing to do with plot




Um, story telling is an art to.

I don't know if this thread is about "who is the best drawer" or "who is the best 2D medium artist" but I'm gonna go ahead and say art envelops story.

1. Oda.  (Easily.)
2. Kishimoto actually.  It's close to Kubo, but I think Kishimoto just has more experience with layout.  He's easier to read and his drawings are much better than when he started.
3. Kubo.


----------



## Yunho (Jan 1, 2008)

I don't read One Piece so I can't comment on it but Kishi>Kubo. Small margin though as both draw women in a somewhat manly fashion.


----------



## Sylar (Jan 1, 2008)

And what woman has Kubo ever drawn in a manly fashion?


----------



## Yunho (Jan 1, 2008)

Karen. 
In the first few volumes, there were some like Rukia that seemed somewhat manly but that has changed now with the addition of Yoruichi, Halibel, and Nel Tu.


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Jan 2, 2008)

Hirohiko Araki>>>>>>>>>all of them


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## atom (Mar 14, 2008)

This thread = fail. There is no actual way to prove that some art is better then other art. 

Fission Mailed.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Mar 15, 2008)

You fail harder for ressurecting it 

Oda >>>> kishimoto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kubo

I would have given more spaces to kubo but he just recently remembered he had a plot


----------



## Roy Mustang (Mar 15, 2008)

Oda     easily


----------



## atom (Mar 15, 2008)

Inuhanyou said:


> You fail harder for ressurecting it
> 
> Oda >>>> kishimoto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kubo
> 
> I would have given more spaces to kubo but he just recently remembered he had a plot


Oh wow, if I make a new thread people complain for me not using the search engine, when I do use it and bump the existing thread people *still* complain. Hypocrites.


----------



## Luciferxxxxx (Mar 15, 2008)

let this thread dieeeee


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (Mar 15, 2008)

Sonic said:


> Oh wow, *if I make a new thread people complain for me not using the search engine*, when I do use it and bump the existing thread people *still* complain. Hypocrites.


the problem is that u bump the thread to complain about the thread, not contributing to the topic

and its not like u will make a thread on the same topic considering how u stated
"*This thread = fail*. There is no actual way to prove that some art is better then other art. "


----------



## atom (Mar 15, 2008)

RamzaBeoulve said:


> the problem is that u bump the thread to complain about the thread, not contributing to the topic
> 
> and its not like u will make a thread on the same topic considering how u stated
> "*This thread = fail*. There is no actual way to prove that some art is better then other art. "


It doesn't matter why I bump the topic, I just wanted to share that rather then making a new thread, don't act like its not true. 

kthxbi.


----------



## Eldritch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sonic said:


> It doesn't matter why I bump the topic, I just wanted to share that rather then making a new thread, don't act like its not true.
> 
> kthxbi.



AKA you want more post count. I see what you did there 

But anyway, I'm just going to express my opinion. Kishimoto can't even compare. He doesn't even hand draw the manga at least that's what I've herd.  Kubo is excellent with anatomy, and gives his manga the style that suites it best(dark feeling). Props for that. Oda however does extraordinary backgrounds. He may suck at drawing girls, but perspective of backgrounds like buildings and ships are much harder than humans, although it may not seem that way.(as an artist I would know.) Props for that. Naruto's backgrounds take place in trees 80% of the time. Trees are the easiest. And the characters look the same with the same nose and eyes. If you would pitch in someone like Obata Takeshi though, he'd stomp all 3 combined


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Mar 15, 2008)

It is my personal opinion that Kubo is the best artist of the three, then Oda, and lastly, Kishi.


----------



## Hodor (Mar 15, 2008)

Hmm, well I dont know if Hiroya Oku's Gantz can be counted or not.  All the animation in gantz is just great, but much of it is done by computer.
Well, I dont know how much of it is actually hand done at all.  I'm sure the origonal character designs were done by hand, and just about all backrounds are done solely by computer.  Meh, its not important, I dont think it really counts.

Regardless, Gantz manga has always just looked great.


----------



## culbert (Mar 16, 2008)

Togashi sensei pawns all manga Artist period !!Zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Luciferxxxxx (Mar 16, 2008)

culbert said:


> Togashi sensei pawns all manga Artist period !!Zzzzzzzzzzz


 I was 17 my drawin is better than togashi's current HxH 

togashi is older than kubo, kishi & oda..indeed how sad


----------



## culbert (Mar 16, 2008)

ur drwin's better than togashi i guess not Zzzzzzz, Togashi's got a style that cant be compared to the others kid, almost all of his char is not the same,, thats a true artist to you,, making characters thats sticks in ur mind for life,,and u kid u cant do that lol.


----------



## Aruarian (Mar 16, 2008)

Harold Sakuishi, bitches.


----------



## KLoWn (Mar 16, 2008)

culbert said:


> ur drwin's better than togashi i guess not Zzzzzzz


Making sense is overrated


----------



## Freija (Mar 16, 2008)

Oda is a fucking great artist, if you have seen some of his portraits you'd fucking faint


----------



## Codde (Mar 16, 2008)

Lucifer said:


> I was 17 my drawin is better than togashi's current HxH
> 
> togashi is older than kubo, kishi & oda..indeed how sad


I'd place current HxH not all that far from Naruto at the very least.


----------



## Supa Swag (Mar 16, 2008)

culbert said:


> Togashi sensei pawns all manga Artist period !!*Zzzzzzzzzzz*





culbert said:


> ur drwin's better than togashi i guess not *Zzzzzzz, *




sup cuz? You getting electrocuted or something?

Narcolepsy?


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 18, 2008)

Well, you can't compare an artist to another. Since their draws is a reflection of their plot, comparing one to another is kinda impossible.
I think that " Which one is your favorite artist and why" would be a better  name for this thread. But anyway, the one I like the most is Oda.
Not only for the drawning itself but also for his outstanding criativity.
He is a master when it comes to match the visual with the personality of the character.


----------



## Parallax (Mar 18, 2008)

Actually yes you can compare, criticize, and analyze contemporary artists to one another.


----------



## Nuzzie (Mar 18, 2008)

I don't know if this has been brought up yet (reading through the thread now), but here is a shot from the latest OP chapter which I found really nice.


----------



## Hatifnatten (Mar 18, 2008)

I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo

Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.


----------



## The Doctor (Mar 18, 2008)

Parallax said:


> Actually yes you can compare, criticize, and analyze contemporary artists to one another.


You can criticize and analyze.
Comparing is another story. You can't compare greatness. Can you compare Renoir to Monet?


----------



## tipom (Mar 18, 2008)

Teresa Brasil said:


> You can criticize and analyze.
> Comparing is another story. You can't compare greatness. *Can you compare Renoir to Monet?*



yes I can, just as I can compare two different manga-ka


----------



## Unrivaled (Mar 18, 2008)

All three are good artists....The pretty boys are drawn by Kishimoto and Kubo though!


----------



## Maruta (Mar 22, 2008)

It doesn't matter. Everyone's styles are unique in their own way, that, together with the plotline is all that matters. In manga, the story is everything, the art is just an additive, and as long as it's not 'too creepy', you can enjoy the series.


----------



## ~L~ (Mar 22, 2008)

i don't read one piece so i can't comment. but in terms of art of style, kubo definately executes it better than kishi. 

however, kishi's art is actually pretty nice too, as long as it isn't female cause his art for females tend to vary from one end of the extreme to the other, and i'm talking about the same character here


----------



## Zephos (Mar 23, 2008)

Hatifnatten said:


> I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo
> 
> Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.



Like the adults dwarfing twelve year olds by at least 6 feet in Naruto amiright.

Give examples of Bleach and One Piece "screwing up" proportion.


----------



## Eldritch (Mar 23, 2008)

Hatifnatten said:


> I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo
> 
> Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.



Kishi topping them in anatomy. lolololol


----------



## Dance (Apr 29, 2008)

Hatifnatten said:


> I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo
> 
> Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.


----------



## Kiyoshi (Apr 29, 2008)

I don't know, I think Kishimoto does a better realistic art style than either Kubo or Oda, but the thing is Oda's style is far from realistic.  At times I think that if Oda wanted to aim for a realistic proportions and what not he could do a lot better, but that isn't quite Oda's style.  

The thing that I admite about Kishimoto is when you look at Madara and Tobi.  Ignore the speech bubbles.  You can tell which personality is being used just by posture alone.  

Kubo... good, but I keep thinking he is too new still.  Is good, but you can tell he is still learning as he goes along in plot and art.  As long as he doesn't have a major break down or develop a huge ego I can see him eventually becoming great.

So between original three listed, I feel it is a toss up between Kishimoto and Oda because of their different styles.  I wish I could say why I like Togashi's art better, when he is trying.


----------



## Fran (Apr 29, 2008)

What a beautiful bump Dance. In b4 banhammer.


----------



## Akatora (Apr 29, 2008)

Hatifnatten said:


> I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo
> 
> Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.




Well should be expected since he try to add the bones, which many mangakas don't.

So if the size get to tiny errors should be expected.


Personally i place Kubo as no 1.


Compare this with this:

this

this


Mucles and Bones seem more visible in bleach i'd say.


----------



## the_notorious_Z.É. (Apr 29, 2008)

They are all good artists but i especially like Kishimoto sense of style and design, i also like how he does the typical "shonen style" in a more realistic way!


----------



## Codde (Apr 30, 2008)

It'd be better to compare a manga's art on the volume releases either way considering it's the "finished" product.


----------



## Mori` (Apr 30, 2008)

Code said:


> It'd be better to compare a manga's art on the volume releases either way considering it's the "finished" product.



Code is a man of many truths

this is another of them.


----------



## Hellion (Apr 30, 2008)

I like kubo' s better he has an americanish stlye to his characters


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (Apr 30, 2008)

Hatifnatten said:


> I'd say Kishi>Oda>Kubo
> 
> Both Oda and Kubo can do great, but they do not sense the body, thus they can never do most of the angles Kishi can. Especially Kubo, if you look through giant faces and spreads, most of the time he's screwing up arms, fingers, etc.


angle

oda, kubo certainly cant do that lol


----------



## Zephos (May 1, 2008)

Code said:


> It'd be better to compare a manga's art on the volume releases either way considering it's the "finished" product.



The only artist that matters with is Togashi.
None of the three guys do touch upped volume artwork.
The only difference is the paper it's printed on.


----------



## theshad (May 1, 2008)

RamzaBeoulve said:


> angle
> 
> oda, kubo certainly cant do that lol



I've seen many better angles from both of them, that's hardly impressive.


----------



## Codde (May 1, 2008)

Zephos said:


> The only artist that matters with is Togashi.
> None of the three guys do touch upped volume artwork.
> The only difference is the paper it's printed on.


Kishimoto does some work I think, though most changes would merely be changing entire scenes occassionally rather than adding detail to work. There's also the matter of (as far as the raws of the volume releases are concerned) it being simply scanned as oppossed to scanned, cleaned, editting, etc... which was a point brought up before.


----------



## Suzuku (May 1, 2008)

Kishimoto's art lacks detail while Oda's is less than appealing to the eyes. So Kubo.


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 1, 2008)

theshad said:


> I've seen many better angles from both of them, that's hardly impressive.


u missed the point...
i was mocking his quote


----------



## Ennoea (May 1, 2008)

Kubo's art is pretty good by weekly standards but I'd have to go with Oda. The amount of detail he adds is uncomparable, the world in OP comes to life, Bleach and Naruto in comparison are mostly just dull.


----------



## OniTasku (May 1, 2008)

1. Oda
2. Kishimoto
3. Kubo

Oda takes first due to his unique style that works incredibly well for him and fans. The zany and stylistic take on his world and characters is very easy to spot, but is also quite memorable. He took lessons from those he admired and he managed very well for doing so. His character designs are as wide and dynamic as the world itself. While some characters may have similar attributes, the differences are made up by sheer personality. The backgrounds are fantastical (in all senses). He's the best of the trio, by far.

Kishimoto has raw potential, but his character can look pretty bland at times. It's a bit monotonous and he isn't exactly a master of making awesome poses and scenes in which characters interact. Still, he has some great designs, but not a lot. His latent ability pretty much lies within the detailed backgrounds he depicts on a weekly-basis. Simply amazing.

Kubo has the talent, but he doesn't use it very well. His forte is character design, shown impressively by the dynamic poses on the front of covers and chapter-titles. Unfortunately, he is distracted by the dozens (and _dozens_) and fodder characters that really play no part in the story. His backgrounds are bland and usually can't be seen.


----------



## Athrum (May 2, 2008)

I hate the art of Oda it's just....horrible. Tite and Kishimoto can do some pull good art out of their asses but lately they are both laking in storytelling 

This should be a Miura, Oku, Oh great and Inoue discussion xD


----------



## Ennoea (May 2, 2008)

> He makes it so obvious that he's stalling for time.



Well both Kishi and Kubo do that, except Kubo did that for a whole arc, Kishi has only really done this in the last few chapters.


----------



## Zephos (May 2, 2008)

X-T said:


> I hate the art of Oda it's just....horrible.



His style or his art?
If the former, whatever.
If the latter, hahahaha, no.


----------



## Tyrannos (May 2, 2008)

When it comes to the artwork between these three, my personal preference is Kishimoto's art.

To me, Kishimoto's artwork is more accurate in the *realism*, Oda's artwork is geared more to *creativity*, and Kubo's artwork is focused more on the *action*.

That's why people like One Piece, because Oda gives life to his characters and the story.  And people like Bleach for the Action.   With Naruto in the middle between the plot and the action.


----------



## Gary (May 2, 2008)

i like them all


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 2, 2008)

can someone show example of kishi's realism?

if by realism, u mean that he portrays human laziness in his artwork, then yes


----------



## Taleran (May 2, 2008)

X-T said:


> I hate the art of Oda it's just....horrible. Tite and Kishimoto can do some pull good art out of their asses but lately they are both laking in storytelling
> 
> This should be a Miura, Oku, Oh great and Inoue discussion xD




did you really just stick Oh Great in the same category as Miura?


but yeah as Zephos said, matter of style or matter of actual art


----------



## Taleran (May 2, 2008)

HUH?
GIANT WALL OF BLACKNESS


you make it sound like Oda can't draw forests


----------



## Aldric (May 2, 2008)

It doesn't really matter when it's the assistants job to draw backgrounds anyway


----------



## MdB (May 2, 2008)

Kishimoto:


Breathtaking....


----------



## Aldric (May 2, 2008)

The light is coming from all sides at the same time

So realistic


----------



## MdB (May 2, 2008)

X-T said:


> I hate the art of Oda it's just....horrible. Tite and Kishimoto can do some pull good art out of their asses but lately they are both laking in storytelling
> 
> This should be a Miura, Oku, Oh great and Inoue discussion xD





BATTAR TAN ODA???



Dont make me laugh.


----------



## Crowe (May 2, 2008)

I'm sure it's been said before but yeah, it's not about x being better artists then x. It all comes down to what style one prefer, they are all good artists but you can't base their artistic level, well you can but you'll probably get the wrong image, on the art/style in their mangas. Some of them have better assistant and have their assistants do more then others too: With that said; I prefer Kishimoto style.


----------



## RamzaBeoulve (May 2, 2008)

do u expect me to believe that when ur avatar hardly has any shading

dude...my avatar of musashi has more shading than that  team snake member...

and musashi is famous for the terrible art, animation


----------



## Crimson Dragoon (May 2, 2008)

MdB said:


> BATTAR TAN ODA???
> 
> 
> 
> Dont make me laugh.



You should have shown the Crazy Itachi pic instead.  It would have been a bit funnier that way.


----------



## Shiftle (May 2, 2008)

I actually like Kubo's drawings of characters. Especially with the captains, theres something about the long, overly-large flowing robe that I personally like. Of course, as its been stated before, Kubo totally drops the ball when it comes to backgrounds.

Oda's style is definitely original, and he is consistently good.  I especially like his humorous expressions. Not much else to say here except what's already been said.

Kishimoto, however, is... pretty average.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

I'm going to go with Oda, because lets face it his backgrounds and color pages are imaginative, and breathtaking. The amount of detail that goes into it is great

Kubo has good character design but no background.

Kishimoto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the other two, as Naruto is drawn digitally, and not by hand.


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> Kishimoto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the other two, as Naruto is drawn digitally, and not by hand.



You still have to draw by hand to make digital art.  It's not like he's rendering it 

And his color pictures are definitely done by hand.  The artbook shows his process step by step


----------



## Dance (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> Kishimoto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the other two, as Naruto is drawn digitally, and not by hand.





			
				Kishimoto said:
			
		

> The thing that won't change is thinking up a good story



Oh the irony.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Zoe said:


> You still have to draw by hand to make digital art.  It's not like he's rendering it
> 
> And his color pictures are definitely done by hand.  The artbook shows his process step by step



hope you know he started using digital art from volume 7 afterwords. The artbook could have been made before he made the complete switch. And you don't need to start drawing by hand to use digital art, as long as you have a tablet, but by doing so your art is less detailed.

this also means that oh so impressive scans used as proof that kishimoto is the better artist post volume 7 are trash, cause its basically computer graphics.


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> hope you know he started using digital art from volume 7 afterwords. The artbook could have been made before he made the complete switch. And you don't need to start drawing by hand to use digital art, as long as you have a tablet, but by doing so your art is less detailed.



Drawing on a tablet is still drawing by hand.

And the artbook came out 3 years after volume 7.  And you can clearly see the marker lines in his color pictures.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Zoe said:


> Drawing on a tablet is still drawing by hand.


with the computer as an aid, besides if you read the interview provided on the link he says its *completely* made on the computer, no paper or ink, the background and characters are made of polygons.



> And the artbook came out 3 years after volume 7.  And you can clearly see the marker lines in his color pictures.



An artbook is nothing more than an compilation of color pages, promotional material, interviews, etc. during a certain time period of a manga's history. Bottom line is the art in the artbook is not recent, and therefore does reflect on the current manga volumes.


----------



## Mori` (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> with the computer as an aid, besides if you read the interview provided on the link he says its *completely* made on the computer, no paper or ink, the background and characters are made of polygons..



you need to read the link *properly* yourself, clearly on the moments when he talks about how the characters and backgrounds *would* (yeah thats would, not are) be made from polygons he's speculating on what digital art means for manga, he then says how that'd make artists free to do all kinds of crazy designs and poses could be recorded with motion capture.

also, out of interest is there recent stuff from oda, kubo or other "big" jump mangaka saying they don't use digital tools at all? I mean if kishimoto switched that far back in time it wouldn't surprise me to learn the others work digitally too.


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

Ammanas already got the first part.



jazz189 said:


> An artbook is nothing more than an compilation of color pages, promotional material, interviews, etc. during a certain time period of a manga's history. Bottom line is the art in the artbook is not recent, and therefore does reflect on the current manga volumes.



The step-by-step process was shown for the cover of the artbook.  It was unique to the artbook's release.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Zoe said:


> The step-by-step process was shown for the cover of the artbook.  It was unique to the artbook's release.



You miss the point, *it doesn't have to be recent*. Do you know how long it takes to compile promotional material, color pages, interviews, etc. Then there's the excess art  and other misc. things that he did which may not have been included in any interviews or promotional material. Not including the process of actually getting the ok from the higher ups, the time it takes the books to be produced, and fyi even though a book is set to be released officially at a certain date, doesn't mean that it hasn't already finished production months before hand.



 Ammanas said:


> you need to read the link properly yourself, clearly on the moments when he talks about how the characters and backgrounds would (yeah thats would, not are) be made from polygons he's speculating on what digital art means for manga, he then says how that'd make artists free to do all kinds of crazy designs and poses could be recorded with motion capture.


No you need to learn to read.
Volume 7 was already made with digital editing or did you miss little tidbit. Meaning that by the time he volume 7 had been released he had already been dabbling in using digital editing, way back when. The real question should be how much of Naruto does Kishimoto actually draw now, with all his assistants, and computers. (yet it still manages to have some really badly drawn chapters, and characters, which just takes a large amount of laziness, made even worse by the fact he uses the computer.)


----------



## Mori` (May 4, 2008)

I didn't state that he doesn't use digital art at all, I just pointed out your innacuracy in assuming that he was stating the backgrounds and characters are made from polygons when that was clearly a reference to how things might be in the future.

as it is, even if he works digitally, drawing with a tablet still requires the ability to draw in the first place. It just makes making changes to something a lot easier if you make a mistake and want to re-do something, particularly when working with ink.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Ammanas said:


> as it is, even if he works digitally, drawing with a tablet still requires the ability to draw in the first place. It just makes making changes to something a lot easier if you make a mistake and want to re-do something, particularly when working with ink.



Even then you're still using the computer. I didn't say he couldn't draw, cause we all know he can. The fact he even uses digital editing, (which explains the drop in detail) just makes it 1,000x worse that he has a lot of really badly drawn chapters, and characters.

Though I also admit to being curious as to how many manga artists use digital editing.


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> You miss the point, *it doesn't have to be recent*. Do you know how long it takes to compile promotional material, color pages, interviews, etc. Then there's the excess art  and other misc. things that he did which may not have been included in any interviews or promotional material. Not including the process of actually getting the ok from the higher ups, the time it takes the books to be produced, and fyi even though a book is set to be released officially at a certain date, doesn't mean that it hasn't already finished production months before hand.



They took pictures AS HE WAS DRAWING including showing the alternate designs that he decided not to use specifically for the cover.  Do you really think they would do that more than *3 years* before the release was even determined?

Edit: The Paint Jump booklet also goes over how he colors by hand with markers.


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Zoe said:


> They took pictures AS HE WAS DRAWING including showing the alternate designs that he decided not to use specifically for the cover.  Do you really think they would do that more than *3 years* before the release was even determined?



what part of *it doesn't have to be recent* don't you understand, it can be something he did that was never included in any interviews, or what not. Not every interview actually makes the cut. When it comes to manga, especially long manga, where the artist has drawn a lot of pictures, artbooks are expected, they might not always know when but they are expected. Why else would a mangaka keep all the pictures he drew.


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> what part of *it doesn't have to be recent* don't you understand, it can be something he did that was never included in any interviews, or what not. Not every interview actually makes the cut. When it comes to manga, especially long manga, where the artist has drawn a lot of pictures, artbooks are expected, they might not always know when but they are expected. Why else would a mangaka keep all the pictures he drew.



What part of *drawn specifically for the cover* do you not understand?


----------



## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

again what part it *doesn't have to be recent* do you not get. Question do you know how long it takes to compile an artbook?


----------



## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> again what part it *doesn't have to be recent* do you not get. Question do you know how long it takes to compile an artbook?



And again, do you REALLY think he would have drawn that more than 3 years in advance, when he supposedly made the full switch to digital?

A CHALLENGER APPEARS

Rasengan didn't even exist back then.


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

and what part about planning do you not understand, there are plenty of color pages, which had spoilers, for new techniques, weapons and whatnot which just now appeared in the manga. Kishimoto made a color page of naruto with one of the frog summons, for one of the earlier chapters of the manga. He also drew a picture of Naruto with a frog summon, Sasuke with a snake summon, and Sakura with a slug summon again long before Naruto or Sasuke even made a contract with the Frogs and Snakes respectively. One of the pictures even had Sasuke striking a pose with Kusanagi, again long before Sasuke gained it in the manga. Heck even the picture with Rin, Obito, Kakashi and Minato Minikaze, which was made mirroring team seven, long before we even really knew who Rin, Obito, and the fourth hokage were.

If you want anymore proof look no further than One Piece, we met Laboon how many years back, and we didn't see the importance until just a few months ago when Brooke was introduced.


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## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

If you can't recognize that this is clearly hand-drawn, then arguing with you is completely worthless.

And I've seen amazing things done with digital art that has absolutely nothing to do with CGI.  It is in no way a lesser form of drawing.


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

not all digital art is cg nor is it all amazing, just so you now. That cover of that tankoban was drawn by hand but its content was not.


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## Doom85 (May 4, 2008)

I'd say:

Oda #1, Kishi a close second. Kubo a distant third.

But as some have previously said, it's a matter of personal preference. Some seem to think Kubo's strength in character drawings make up for his poor (or even lack of) backgrounds, but I can't accept that. Backgrounds are just as essential as character design in drawing me into the story. This is why I had to stop reading Bleach and stick to the anime because the manga wasn't pulling me in. Kishi and Oda achieve that sense of being there, whereas Kubo does not, IMHO.

Hiromu Arakawa pwns them all for me though.  Perfect in character design, backgrounds, fight choreography, everything.


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## mystictrunks (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> Kishimoto shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the other two, as Naruto is drawn digitally, and not by hand.



Digital art is just as good as "traditional" art. Hell aren't both Gantz and Bastard!  done digitally?


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

mystictrunks said:


> Digital art is just as good as "traditional" art. Hell aren't both Gantz and Bastard!  done digitally?



not all digital art is good nor is it all cg.


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## Zephos (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> not all digital art is good nor is it all cg.



Not all traditional art is good.
What's your point.


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## mystictrunks (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> not all digital art is good nor is it all cg.



When did I say it was all good or CG? I'm a bit of a digital artist myself and just use Adobe Illustrator and PhotoShop.


There's tons of horrible hand made art as well.


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

i never said there wasn't any bad traditional art, cause there is. Just that Kishimoto its kinda questionable that we're comparing the art of two people who use traditional art Oda, and Kubo, to someone who uses digital art Kishimoto.


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## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

For all you know, Oda's and Kubo's art could be just as digital as Kishi's.


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## Aldric (May 4, 2008)

If you can't draw digital tools aren't going to make your art miraculously stop sucking

Hagiwara would still be an excellent artist without cgi


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

Zoe said:


> For all you know, Oda's and Kubo's art could be just as digital as Kishi's.



and for all you know they might not be


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## Zoe (May 4, 2008)

It isn't even known to what extent he uses digital art.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's only the assistants doing touch-ups.


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## Enishi (May 4, 2008)

I have the artbook Zoe mentioned.

And it contains stuff from character polls that were done PAST volume 7 

As well as characters that were introduced PAST volume 7.

One thing is planning... but that is just ridiculous :3. Some illustrations there were clearly done after volume 7. End of story 



> and for all you know they might not be



And for all I know, drawing in Oekaki is digital, and it's still as hard as drawing manually (I would say even more).

Digital or traditional doesn't matter, both deserve the same merit :3. That's the point you aren't understanding at all o,o


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

If you can't see the digital editing in this then you're hopeless.


In your needless attempt to defend Zoe you missed out on the point. Traditional and digital are not the same. It wasn't an argument over which one was the better art style. If you can't see that fact then you aren't understanding at all.

You also missed out on the point of the argument, go reread the previous threads before responding.


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## Frosch (May 4, 2008)

Oda would be great if he didn't draw ugly swordsmen giraffes, zipper-mouth fatballs and ugly long nosed people.

Kishi's art is average and generic IMO. I'd say Kubo is more or less decent.

I can't decide which would be the better one, but yeah that picture of the hidden rain village is beautiful. I honestly don't think it matters if the art was hand-drawn on paper or by means of digital editing. It's the end product what we call art, regardless of what means and tools the artist uses to express it.

12345


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## Stan Lee (May 4, 2008)

IMO........... Kishi and Kubo >Oda.


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## RamzaBeoulve (May 4, 2008)

so how is the fact that kishi using digital makes him not qualified to be compared with the other two, he still has to draw the picture first...

im sure most of us thinks kishi sucks is not because he use digital, but the fact that his final product just sucks overall, no shading, lack of detail on character/background, poor sense in proportion etc.

who cares if he use digital art, if it can help him draw easier, let him do it, (however, most of his pages can be drawn so easily by drawing traditionally)


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## jazz189 (May 4, 2008)

RamzaBeoulve said:


> so how is the fact that kishi using digital makes him not qualified to be compared with the other two, he still has to draw the picture first...
> 
> im sure most of us thinks kishi sucks is not because he use digital, but the fact that his final product just sucks overall, no shading, lack of detail on character/background, poor sense in proportion etc.
> 
> who cares if he use digital art, if it can help him draw easier, let him do it, (however, most of his pages can be drawn so easily by drawing traditionally)


I'm not saying it makes him any less of an manga artist, I'm just saying that because he uses digital art, he shouldn't be compared to the the other two 
cause in my opinion comparing digital to traditional is like comparing apples to oranges.


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## Enishi (May 4, 2008)

> Traditional and digital are not the same. It wasn't an argument over which one was the better art style. If you can't see that fact then you aren't understanding at all.
> 
> You also missed out on the point of the argument, go reread the previous threads before responding.



Then, you are implying that this doesn't mean that you're basically saying that Digital Art and Traditional art can't be compared?  :



> i never said there wasn't any bad traditional art, cause there is. Just that Kishimoto its kinda questionable that we're comparing the art of two people who use traditional art Oda, and Kubo, to someone who uses digital art Kishimoto.



You still don't get it.... this thread is for comparing three *DRAWN* manga. Be it digitally or manually. This isn't like compraing CG art with drawn art... you don't understand this AT ALL ... 

I'll say it again, so read carefully: It doesn't matter if it is drawn at hand or digitally (wich, BTW, is initially drawn at hand anyways), *IT IS STILL DRAWN ART* and thus, *IT IS THE SAME*.

Keep arguing all you want that, they are the same, it's a fact... the only thing that changes is the technique used to do it... the result is still the same .



> In your needless attempt to defend Zoe you missed out on the point.



Defending wut? the only thing that I mentioned Zoe in was:



> I have the artbook Zoe mentioned.



LOL@defending . I just said that I have something that was mentioned in this post, so I could confirm or deny it, nothing else :3. Stop being on the defensive, kid, Because you aren't being attacked, you are just being argued. No need to be mad about it :3



> If you can't see the digital editing in this then you're hopeless.



And what if it is digitillaty edited????... it is still drawn art  . Hand drawn or not doesn't matter. It is in the same category as pure hand draw because the final product is the same: drawn... As long as the final product isn't another thing (CG, for example) it doesn't matter one bit :3.

Lastly, Geijutsu gave an even clearer explanation:



> I honestly don't think it matters if the art was hand-drawn on paper or by means of digital editing. It's the end product what we call art, regardless of what means and tools the artist uses to express it.



Do you understand now jazz?


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## mystictrunks (May 4, 2008)

jazz189 said:


> Traditional and digital are not the same.



Cop-Out.

Cartooning, painting, and sculpting are all traditional art but they aren't the same. The media is different but they both result in art

 Thoughts like this are what hurt art. If an artist feels they can express themselves better through a digital medium then a "traditional" who's to say they aren't the same as a "normal" artist.

To say you can't compare traditional and digital art is horrible.


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## Zephos (May 4, 2008)

I really hate that "THEY CANT EB COMPARED" arguement.
Were comparing art, not digital art, not traditional art, just art, its non-specific. 
It doesn't matter what medium is used.


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## Stan Lee (May 4, 2008)

Wow, I actually agree with Zephos on something.


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## Frosch (May 5, 2008)

Pretty much my point from earlier.


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## Dance (May 5, 2008)

Geijutsu said:


> Oda would be great if he didn't draw ugly swordsmen giraffes, zipper-mouth fatballs and ugly long nosed people.



yes

if only oda drew boring generic cunts

ONLY THEN WILL HE BE USING HIS FULL POTENTIAL


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## The Doctor (May 5, 2008)

All this discussion about digital and tradicional art made me curious. I really don't undestand how mangas are made but please, correct me if I'm wrong....
I always thougth that mangas were all originally drawn by hand. And then, to clean up some of the mistakes and to make it more "beautiful" in some sort of speaking, they would implement a digital editing to the previous hand-made draw. But in essence, all of them are originally draw by hand.
That's what I imagined


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## Zoe (May 5, 2008)

Yeah, there's obviously no CG in use here, so the art IS hand drawn.  There's a question though of whether it's drawn on paper and then scanned in or if it's drawn with a tablet from the get-go.

Going by the detail in Kishi's work (laugh all you want, but look at the Rain Village again), I would guess he starts with paper.


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## Zephos (May 5, 2008)

Zoe said:


> Yeah, there's obviously no CG in use here, so the art IS hand drawn.  There's a question though of whether it's drawn on paper and then scanned in or if it's drawn with a tablet from the get-go.
> 
> Going by the detail in Kishi's work (laugh all you want, but look at the Rain Village again), I would guess he starts with paper.



Personally I would surmise that it doesn't matter whatsoever.


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