# Pein vs 1st Hokage vs Konoha's White Fang



## Girl I don't care (May 15, 2008)

rank these three chracters based on the hype you've heard of them or which one you think logically should be the strongest. give some reasons.


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## hyuuga_neji14732 (May 15, 2008)

I'd have to go with the 1st hokage because he beat Madara in a fight whom Pain was shown taking orders from and they said the White Fang measured up to Sanin level but I don't think that would be enough


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## the_symbol_of_rebirth (May 15, 2008)

I think pein would win, but not easily. This battle would be so insane.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 15, 2008)

1. Pein
2. Hashirama Senju
3. Sakumo Hatake


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## Highgoober (May 15, 2008)

1. Shodaime
2. White Fang
3. Pein


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## Sasuke_Bateman (May 15, 2008)

Roka said:


> 1. Shodaime
> 2. White Fang
> 3. Pein



I think that's about right, I agree


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## PradaBrada (May 15, 2008)

Shodai
TWF
Pein


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## Girl I don't care (May 15, 2008)

also please give some reasons people.


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## Highgoober (May 15, 2008)

Shodaime - He beat Madara and is just generally a pretty cool guy
The White Fang - Could compete with the three sannin at once and is a pretty cool guy
Pein - Beat Jiraiya? Wow.


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## Girl I don't care (May 15, 2008)

Roka said:


> Shodaime - He beat Madara and is just generally a pretty cool guy
> The White Fang - *Could compete with the three sannin at once and is a pretty cool guy*
> Pein - Beat Jiraiya? Wow.



i thought it was stated that he was sannin level and not sannin owning level?


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## Highgoober (May 15, 2008)

Yeah, that makes him sannin level. I said compete, not beat. I don't think that he was epic enough to beat them all at once but certainly he could at least hold his own against them.


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## Louis-954 (May 15, 2008)

1. Dont know ANYTHING about Hatake Sakumo.

2. We dont know ANYTHING about Senju Hashirama. BUT lets give him the benefit of the doubt and give him Yamato's moves on a larger scale.

3. We know the abilities of 3 of Pein's 6 bodies. 

Going by this logic, Sakumo loses automatically. Id say it would be a damn good and long fight between Pein and Hashirama. especially with the track records they got, one being undefeated and the other defetaed the EMS + Kyuubi.


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## PradaBrada (May 15, 2008)

xheadPWNS said:


> also please give some reasons people.



Shodai is a pretty cool guy, eh makes epic and doesn't afraid of anything

TWF is like 10X Kakashi Prime, without a Sharingan to hold him back

Pein is the AL, lol



xheadPWNS said:


> i thought it was stated that he was sannin level and not sannin owning level?



As TWF always says: the Sannin's name were petty in front of The White Fang of Konoha


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 15, 2008)

Hashimara - he soloed the strongest uchiha + kyuubi and he seems badass beyond words.

TWF - He was said to be on par with the sannin and he is also Kakashi's dad. 




Pain - Just a random fodder.


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## Dman (May 15, 2008)

pein wins in the end.


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## Roland (May 15, 2008)

Shodai= The first hokage and founder of Konoha. Also, defeated the Madara, the man who gives orders to Pein.
Pein=Defeated a sannin and the Akatsuki "leader".
The White Fang= Sannin level.


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## copycat123 (May 15, 2008)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Hashimara - he soloed the strongest uchiha + kyuubi and he seems badass beyond words.
> 
> *TWF - He was said to be on par with the sannin and he is also Kakashi's dad*.
> 
> ...




Yeah, and Pein 

1. Singlehandedly knocked out the guy who made the sannins look like kindergarten kids (albeit when the sannins were young but still formidable)

2. Bossed around one of the sannins supposedly a genius once a decade

3. Defeated another one without much trouble


Who is TWF again? Fodder I guess...


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## DivineDart (May 15, 2008)

the two leaf would work together to rape stomp pain then spar with each other


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## Shodai (May 15, 2008)

We don't know enough about TWF to rank him


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## Snowy (May 15, 2008)

White fang has to be better then Kakashi so id put him maybe 2 with the botd


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 15, 2008)

copycat123 said:


> Yeah, and Pein
> 
> 1. Singlehandedly knocked out the guy who made the sannins look like kindergarten kids (albeit when the sannins were young but still formidable)
> 
> ...



1- We weren't informed clearly about that incident, he might have ambushed him, like oro and his co did to 4th Kazekage. Also we don't know how powerful sannin were when they fought Hanzou. 

2- Oro ? I doubt he gave a shit about Pain

3- Without much trouble ? "Pain : If it wasn't for our secret, we would have never won" No trouble indeed.


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## Kokain (May 15, 2008)

Pain
Shodai
TWF

Pain is Naruto's opponent. Naruto is destined to be the strongest Hokage. No way his slotted opponent is anything other than absolutely godly, or weaker than one of the previous Hokages, all of whom Naruto is going to surpass. With only three bodies he completely dominated Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa; the guy had to run away into tunnels and use hax just to fail again and get owned.

Shodai beat a *young* EMS Madara, that's his big feat. Btw, "beating" Kyuubi as well means nothing because that's just an ability Shodai has; he's not stronger than the Kyuubi.

TWF had a reputation to rival the Sannins or something. Woot.


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## maximilyan (May 15, 2008)

Pein
Shodai
White Fang

Pein defeated jiraiya with essentially three bodies and without actually reveal all to much of what he's capable of. He has appearantly mastered all 6 elements, we've seen none of that. His nagato body, we've seen none of that. His rinnegan, we've seen a glimpse of that. And his 3 bodies that showed up at the end, we've seen little to nothing of them.


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## Kieuseru (May 15, 2008)

69tails said:


> Pain
> Shodai
> TWF
> 
> ...



This is pretty much what I was thinking.


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## copycat123 (May 15, 2008)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 1- We weren't informed clearly about that incident, he might have ambushed him, like oro and his co did to 4th Kazekage. Also we don't know how powerful sannin were when they fought Hanzou.
> 
> 2- Oro ? I doubt he gave a shit about Pain
> 
> 3- Without much trouble ? "Pain : If it wasn't for our secret, we would have never won" No trouble indeed.




1. The benefit of the doubt favors the opinion that Hanzou pretty much owned the young sannins. Yes sannins most likely weren't as powerful (as I implied in my last post) but they were still quite strong, mid jounin level at the very least. What we do know from the scans is that Hanzou was standing at a very commanding position with the sannins panting and all bruised up. 


2. Doesn't change the fact that he was still serving under the command of Pein. Kakuzu and Hidan seems to hate each other's ideals; yet they work together out of necessity (and more like Kakuzu cannot destroy Hidan and so he learned to just cope with him). Same deal with Oro unless manga says otherwise.


3. Exactly a parallel statement has been made by Madara as "Fortunately, I managed to keep few secrets even from him...if I hadn't I'd be dead right now". So are you ready to admit that Madara is a fodder because of that statement?


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## Grimmjowsensei (May 16, 2008)

copycat123 said:


> 1. The benefit of the doubt favors the opinion that Hanzou pretty much owned the young sannins. Yes sannins most likely weren't as powerful (as I implied in my last post) but they were still quite strong, mid jounin level at the very least. What we do know from the scans is that Hanzou was standing at a very commanding position with the sannins panting and all bruised up.
> 
> 
> 2. Doesn't change the fact that he was still serving under the command of Pein. Kakuzu and Hidan seems to hate each other's ideals; yet they work together out of necessity (and more like Kakuzu cannot destroy Hidan and so he learned to just cope with him). Same deal with Oro unless manga says otherwise.
> ...




3- Pain isn't fodder because of that statement, he is fodder because he has no relevance to the main plot or any main characters. Also, Madara haven't gone all out yet, actually he nearly hasn't shown anything. If he had used that statement after he had gone all out, you might have a point. 
However Pain used that statement after going all out vs Jiraiya.


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## Kokain (May 16, 2008)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 3- Pain isn't fodder because of that statement, he is fodder because he has no relevance to the main plot or any main characters. Also, Madara haven't gone all out yet, actually he nearly hasn't shown anything. If he had used that statement after he had gone all out, you might have a point.
> However Pain used that statement after going all out vs Jiraiya.



You could say he has relevance cause he killed Naruto's sensei, wants to extract the Kyuubi from Naruto, and wants to destroy the world (which will have to affect everyone).

But Madara has that tie too (indirectly responsible for the death of Naruto's father, connections all the way back to the founding of Konoha).

So I don't think you can say for sure if Pain is fodder, he does have some ties to Naruto.

And Pain didn't go all out. He brought out all 6 bodies, but we still don't know the full extent of their abilities. He ended up killing Jiraiya by stabbing him, it's not one of his major jutsu. We still don't know who Pain is, we don't know what happened to Nagato, and we don't know all the abilities of the Rinnegan.

There's still a lot of potential for his character.


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## Girl I don't care (May 16, 2008)

with all this current attention on madara and sasuke i really hope Pain isnt just some strong fodder that he currently seems to be.


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## Shunji (May 16, 2008)

69tails said:


> You could say he has relevance cause he killed Naruto's sensei, wants to extract the Kyuubi from Naruto, and wants to destroy the world (which will have to affect everyone).
> 
> But Madara has that tie too (indirectly responsible for the death of Naruto's father, connections all the way back to the founding of Konoha).




I thought that kyuubi attack was a random accident not performed by Madara, so he's not indirectly responsible for Minatos death.


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## Kokain (May 16, 2008)

^Madara said it was random, but Itachi said it was Madara. 

It's possible that Madara is lying to Sasuke, trying to make himself look better. But we don't know for sure yet.


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## Girl I don't care (May 16, 2008)

itachi didn't know that madaras bro willingly gave up his sharingan either. but then this could also just be some bullshit made by madara.


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## IMMORTALx1 (May 16, 2008)

Pain has masterd all 6 elements at 10 and perform any jutsu he wants he wins with some diffuculty.


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## IMMORTALx1 (May 16, 2008)

xheadPWNS said:


> with all this current attention on madara and sasuke i really hope Pain isnt just some strong fodder that he currently seems to be.



No the guy who kills the legendary J-Man is def not fodder. Dont worry youll see. Im Kishi lol no i am.


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## Empirejoao (May 16, 2008)

Probably Pain.

It seems the reason Shodai was able to defeat Madara was due to his Biju controlling Powers.

Pain's regeneration has seemingly no limits, and judging from the enormous hype his Rinnegan has, I simply don't see Shodai beating him.


We have almost no knowledge on TWF..but as he is Kakashi's dad I'm going to assume he is fail.


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## Girl I don't care (May 16, 2008)

Empirejoao said:


> We have almost no knowledge on TWF..but as he is Kakashi's dad I'm going to assume he is fail.



so kakashi=fail?


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## Chidoriblade (May 16, 2008)

1. Shodaime, if he could defeat Madara he could wipe the floor with Pein.
2. Pein
3. Sakumo Hatake. Sakumo was once said to be as great as the Sannin, but as we know Pein can wipe the floor with Orochimaru and defeat Jiraiya, though that fight was slightly costly to Pein.


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## Bandit (May 16, 2008)

Shodai. Duh.


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## Gary (May 16, 2008)

shodai wood ftw


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## Girl I don't care (May 17, 2008)

madara might not necessarily>pain, he might just be more manipulaitve and pain more gullable.


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

PradaBrada said:


> Shodai
> TWF
> Pein



I love you man.

Anyway, people, White Fang is not " Sannin Level " he is well above all three of them.

That was a blatant mistranslation.

Volume 27 Chapter 240 Page 103:
"その親父さんの前で"伝説の三忍"の名すらかすむほどだった..."

Yondaime - "Even the name of the "Legendary Sannin" *was petty before that one's father..."*

2nd Databook Page 128:
その実力の前には, あの"三忍"の名前もかすむほどであったという．

Before his *capabilities/power/skill/force*, it was said that even the name of the "Sannin" was petty/insignificant/overshadowed/etc.*

*It can be translated jitsuryoku (実力) as capabilities, but it can also mean "force" or "power".

White Fang > Sannin.


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## Cyphon (May 17, 2008)

1. Pein - has the eyes to learn all ninjutsu, has the eyes of the creator of ninjutsu...beat Jiraiya in HM who is IMO top 5 strongest in the manga, and slapped around the guy who beat all 3 sannin
2. Shodai - beat madara and smacked the kyuubis ass
3. White fang - on par with the sannin


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

cyphon25 said:


> 3. White fang - on par with the sannin



Blatantly wrong and that was a mistranslation.

Volume 27 Chapter 240 Page 103:
"その親父さんの前で"伝説の三忍"の名すらかすむほどだった..."

Yondaime - "Even the name of the "Legendary Sannin" was petty before that one's father..."

2nd Databook Page 128:
その実力の前には, あの"三忍"の名前もかすむほどであったという．

Before his capabilities/power/force/skills*, it was said that even the name of the "Sannin" was petty/insignificant/overshadowed/etc.

*It can be translated jitsuryoku (実力) as capabilities, but it can also mean "force" or "power".

Raijin and Sho, the translators have already stated that " Having the reputation of the same level as the Sannin " was a bad mistranslation.


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## Cyphon (May 17, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Blatantly wrong and that was a mistranslation.
> 
> Volume 27 Chapter 240 Page 103:
> "その親父さんの前で"伝説の三忍"の名すらかすむほどだった..."
> ...



Not sure what this has to do with where i have him...the guy i have at number 1 beat a guy who proved the sannin were petty and insignificant...White fang was just more famous for being an ass kicker than the sannin were.


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## iander (May 17, 2008)

Pein is better than both.


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

cyphon25 said:


> Not sure what this has to do with where i have him...the guy i have at number 1 beat a guy who proved the sannin were petty and insignificant...White fang was just more famous for being an ass kicker than the sannin were.



He's more famous for being far more powerful then all of the Sannin. Not too mention you have absolutely no idea how Hanzou was killed by Pein as his age would've put him in his late sixties at minimum when Pein would've killed him in his early or mid 20's.

So your citing an unquantifable feat.

Because Hatake Sakumo's comparison to the Sannin is written in present ie the Sannin are their prime and are nothing to him where as Hanzou made the Young Sannin who were nothing and not at their peak look like nothing.

Big difference.


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## Cyphon (May 17, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> He's more famous for being far more powerful then all of the Sannin. Not too mention you have absolutely no idea how Hanzou was killed by Pein as his age would've put him in his late sixties at minimum when Pein would've killed him in his early or mid 20's.
> 
> So your citing an unquantifable feat.



How is unquantifiable? Jiraiya was in his fifties and clearly in his prime at that age. So if Hanzou was 60 he should have been even more of an ass kicker.

And i do not believe the translation said "White Fang was known for being far more powerful than the sannin".

It is like comparing Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is one of the best basketball players of all time, but when you compare him to Michael Jordans name, he seems not so amazing anymore. Just like in front of most the Sannin are absolutely incredible, but when compared to someone like White Fang, they are merely great ninja


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

cyphon25 said:


> - How so?
> 
> - I believe it said their names seemed petty, not their skills
> 
> try again



2nd Databook Page 128:
その実力の前には, あの"三忍"の名前もかすむほどであったという．

*Before his capabilities/skills/force/power*, it was said that even the name of the "Sannin" was petty/insignificant/overshadowed/etc.*

**It can translate jitsuryoku (実力) as capabilities, but it can also mean "force" or "power".*

Too bad it does. So thanks, Kishimoto clearly wrote that Sakumo's skills/power/force/capabilities as a ninja make the Sannin petty/insignifigant/overshadowed, ect...

Hmm I wonder why Kishimoto specifically states his skills, powers, force or capabilities and not his reputation?


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## Cyphon (May 17, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> 2nd Databook Page 128:
> その実力の前には, あの"三忍"の名前もかすむほどであったという．
> 
> *Before his capabilities/skills/force/power*, it was said that even the name of the "Sannin" was petty/insignificant/overshadowed/etc.*
> ...



Again...if you care to read the things you are typing...it says it made the name "sannin" seem petty. What does that have to do with their skills? 

I can do that too. Oro's skills and power make even the name genin seem petty...damn Oro is impressive


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

cyphon25 said:


> Again...if you care to read the things you are typing...it says it made the name "sannin" seem petty. What does that have to do with their skills?



Too bad it makes no mention of Sakumo's reputation, only his power to the Sannin's reputation, not his.. 



> I can do that too. Oro's skills and power make even the name genin seem petty...damn Oro is impressive



Thanks for the strawman argument, too bad that Sakumo's power is still spoken of in present tense to the Sannin in the 2nd Databook.

But please, continue with the irrational analogies to try and rebuke my argument, it amuses me.


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## Euraj (May 17, 2008)

Pain. **


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## Cyphon (May 17, 2008)

Mirai Gohan said:


> Too bad it makes no mention of Sakumo's reputation, only his power to the Sannin's reputation, not his..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its not really a big deal to me, i just feel you are misreading what the statement is supposed to mean. I am taking it one way and you another, its not too significant in any case


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## Fang (May 17, 2008)

cyphon25 said:


> Its not really a big deal to me, i just feel you are misreading what the statement is supposed to mean. I am taking it one way and you another, its not too significant in any case



Your inventing contexts and completely taking them off-rail. There is specific example of Sakumo's reputation and the Sannin's in the Kakashi Gaiden and there is a specific line in the databook that states his power/skill/capabilities/force to the Sannin's own.

If you don't want to believe that, not my problem, Kishimoto specifically referenced Sakumo's power and skill, not his reputation when he said it his "power/skill/force/capabilities make the Sannin petty/insignifigant/overshadowed, not his reptuation.

Never once mentioned in the databook.


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## Hippie (May 17, 2008)

we know nearly nothing about the white fang and how he fights
let me rephrase that
we know *nothing at all* about the white fang and how he fights


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## Vangelis (May 17, 2008)

1.Pein
2.Shodai
3.White Fang


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## Girl I don't care (May 17, 2008)

thelazygenius said:


> we know nearly nothing about the white fang and how he fights
> let me rephrase that
> we know *nothing at all* about the white fang and how he fights



that's why we're speculating through hype.


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## Naruto Sensei (May 17, 2008)

*Pein* - Defeated Hanzou, someone Jiraiya at his strongest thought no one person could defeat. 

*Shodai* - Is very impressive and defeated Madara at VOTE

*Sakumo* - Read Mirai Gohan's post about TWF's rep


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## the box (May 17, 2008)

pain 

owned hanzo

never lost a fight

makes it rain

and makes ninja look like poo poo to his eyes


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## Highgoober (May 18, 2008)

*Shodai*
*The White Fang*
Pein.


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## Ryuk (May 18, 2008)

1. Shodai
2. Pein
3. TWF


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## Shoddragon (May 18, 2008)

1.Pein (took down hanzou who defeated the the sannin and gave them their name even when they were pretty close to their prime since they looked in their mid to late 20s)

2. Shodaime ( defeated madara although we still do not know exactly, and Madara seems to have faked his death, so its possible he lost the damage on purpose, and his mokuton apparently was holding the kyuubi back in the 1 page which showed madara and shodaime fighting)

3. White Fang ( Had a title which put the sanin's to shame, indicating not that he could defeat them all, but that he was extremely powerful, more than fit to be hokage, and perhaps even give all three of them a run for their money although not necessarily defeat all of them).

Pein has a greater feat because apparently he defeated the sannin quite easily and ALLOWED them to live. that says something.


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## Sesha (May 18, 2008)

1. Shodai
2. Pein
3. TWF

All of them are/were insanely strong. 
Shodai deserves to be at number one, since he was at one point the strongest shinobi in the world, and the only one that could rival Madara. But it's his epic bitchslapping of Madara at VotE, when Madara had even summoned Kyuubi in battle. 
Pein as we all know has the Rinnegan and the six bodies, has mastered all six forms of chakra manipulatio, and defeated Jiraiya. 
TWF, while last, was by no means a pushover. He was an epic badass that in his time was stronger than the Sannin.


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## copycat123 (May 18, 2008)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 3- Pain isn't fodder because of that statement, he is fodder because he has no relevance to the main plot or any main characters. Also, Madara haven't gone all out yet, actually he nearly hasn't shown anything. If he had used that statement after he had gone all out, you might have a point.
> However Pain used that statement after going all out vs Jiraiya.



Sorry, this couldn't be any far from the truth (at least the way I see it). If Pein went all out against Jiraya, then there is no point for the writer to keep him around. The fact that his main fight is with Naruto (the main character) implies that he has not gone all out; heck, to me it seemed like he fought with < 50% of his total capacity. After all that Jiraya said (mastering 6 elements and the power of rinnegan), it's naive at best to think that Pein has shown everything in his arsenal against Jiraya. 


The only reason that argument comes up "that Pein went all out" is possibly because of the statement he made about the possibility of dying. However, Madara made the same statement. Whether Madara went all out or not is irrelevant, but the fact is that Madara's hype of invincibility took a hit the moment he admitted that amaterasu could have killed him. 


Besides, there is a possibility that Madara is simply Sasuke's enemy as Pein is Naruto's if it turns out to be true that second kyubi attack was just a coincidence (by Madara's own admission). I actually made a thread about this. Hence if Naruto is not connected with Madara's story, then Madara is simply another villain...in fact even less important than Pein if Pein becomes more connected to Naruto (as it already seems to be the case).


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## Itachi's Apprentice 3 (May 19, 2008)

Shodai>>>Pein>>>>>>>>>>>White Fang. I assume Pein is inferior to Madara who was defeated by Shodai, so Shodai is probably above Pein. The White Fang was said to be on the level of the Sannin but the Sannin are still inferior to Pein.


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## Empirejoao (May 19, 2008)

SSj2 Gaara sasuke Narutohan said:


> Shodai>>>Pein>>>>>>>>>>>White Fang. I assume Pein is inferior to Madara who was defeated by Shodai, so Shodai is probably above Pein. The White Fang was said to be on the level of the Sannin but the Sannin are still inferior to Pein.




Shodai had special tools that allowed him to beat Madara:

Kyuubi Control
Darkness Genjutsu


Those tools are completely useless against Pain; Pain is also hyped to be stronger than Madara.  

Pain>Shodai


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## Snowy (May 19, 2008)

1. Shodai
2. Pein
3. TWF


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## Girl I don't care (May 22, 2008)

from what madara said it did sound as if shodai beat him fairly.


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## S.A.S (Jun 3, 2008)

I think pain will win cause he has the rinnengan


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## mednin (Jun 3, 2008)

1. First Hokage
2. Konoha's White Fang
3. Pein


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## Pain (Jun 5, 2008)

1. Pein
2. shodai
3. white fang


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## The Truth (Jun 5, 2008)

I would hesitate to place Shodai at #1 because Sarutobi surpassed him, despite what recent revelations might _suggest_ to the contrary. Despite Shodai's accomplishments, it was his student who was proclaimed by objective and arguably subjective sources as the strongest.

TWF is a one arc wonder whose claim to fame is a reputation/abilities that surpass the Sannin. Thats the extent of his hype and he hasn't been mentioned since(unless you count the fact that he offed Chiyo's son).

Pain has the world destroying eyes that were even deemed to legendary, he has the lineage of Rikudu, killed a chuunin with no training, capable of using every element, beat Hanzo(another one arc wonder), etc.

Shodai and Pain have more substance than TWF, and however strong Shodai was he has since been surpassed:

1. Pain
2. Shodai
3. TWF


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## master bruce (Jun 5, 2008)

*Itachi doesn't know everything, and Madara could have lost that fight for a reason.

Also, Madara didn't have the jutsus he has now like time space he would have raped the 1st and then taken his woman.

Like Madara said" He let itachi think what he wanted him to think." 

Why do you think itachi believed that amaterasu would kill Madara?
Madara never revealed time space jutsu to him and I'm sure Madara has other jutsu that he didn't show itachi.


Just like how Madara knew everything about itachi and itachi didn't know that ??Madara knew his dirty little secrets.


MAdara is no slouch so don't think that.


If he had his current godly jutsu when he fought the 1st the 1st would be roadkill.


remember, they were said to be equally matched every...single...time.. they fought.

Then in one battle, for some reason unknown, shodai got the upper hand and wounded Madara.

how much money do you want to bet that Madara didn't have time space jutsu when he fought shodai at vote?!?!?!?!?!


yondaime was a god with his thunder god jutsu and Madara's time space jutsu is superior speed than that.this would've =madara kicking shodai's ass all over the vote.*


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## Shoddragon (Jun 5, 2008)

the fact that we do not know HOW shodai won is extremely important. remember that ABC logic is extremely fallible in Naruto. 

also, Madara FOUNDED Akatski. so technically he is the true akatski leader. Pain is not. Pain for some reason finds Madara to be useful, and has no reason to fight him, so if taking orders from madara increases the chances of succeeding with his plan, I doubt Pain would object.


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## Death-kun (Jun 5, 2008)

1. Shodai
2. Pain
3. Hatake Sakumo (White Fang)


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## God (Jun 5, 2008)

Holy shit! this battle would be insane but Pein wins. Hashirama second and WF third. They would all still be epic win though.


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## Pain (Jun 5, 2008)

master bruce said:


> *Itachi doesn't know everything, and Madara could have lost that fight for a reason.
> 
> Also, Madara didn't have the jutsus he has now like time space he would have raped the 1st and then taken his woman.
> 
> ...



Just one question, how the hell did we get to the topic of madara?
In this topic, madara doesn't mean shit.  So lets get back on topic people.


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## Hatake Riku (Jun 5, 2008)

Bruce guy is talking purely out of his ass...
Prove to me madara wasn't a prime when he got his ass handed to by shodai? Madara himself said senju and uchiha were the strongest clans. Also...why would there be a reason for madara to lose the fight that was suposed to decide the fate of konoha...right ur talking out ur ass.
Shodai and white fang would gang up on pein. From there my guess white fang would bow in respect to the worlds greatest shinobi and give him the win.
Not every senju had darkness genjutsu(I'm guessing) nor did they have mokuton yet they were consider on par with the uchiha. I'm sure to konoha legends wouldn't fight each other first while some outsider picks at them. 
But then again I'm going off just simple facts...we can't really know.


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## akatsuki8 (Jun 30, 2008)

pein
madara
white fang


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## Girl I don't care (Jul 22, 2008)

Hatake Riku said:


> Bruce guy is talking purely out of his ass...
> Prove to me madara wasn't a prime when he got his ass handed to by shodai? Madara himself said senju and uchiha were the strongest clans. Also...why would there be a reason for madara to lose the fight that was suposed to decide the fate of konoha...right ur talking out ur ass.
> Shodai and white fang would gang up on pein. From there my guess white fang would bow in respect to the worlds greatest shinobi and give him the win.
> Not every senju had darkness genjutsu(I'm guessing) nor did they have mokuton yet they were consider on par with the uchiha. I'm sure to konoha legends wouldn't fight each other first while some outsider picks at them.
> But then again I'm going off just simple facts...we can't really know.



i pretty much agree with the fact that Madara should be at his prime during the fight. how he survived was a wonder though.


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## Euraj (Jul 22, 2008)

I think Pain will definately show himself to be as strong as the First, at a _minimum_, but since this is supposed to be going on hype alone, and not logic, I'll go with Hashirama.


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## ArAshI-sensei (Jul 22, 2008)

The first Hokage will probably be able to beat Pein, why else could he be the leader of the very first hidden village? He also had a collection of Bijuu under his command 

Konoha's white fang would not have lasted long in this fight, but then again we haven't seen anything about him


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## BIGASIA (Jul 22, 2008)

can someone tell me the chapter where it says that the white fang is sannin level? cuz that would be be pretty cool


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## Proxy (Jul 22, 2008)

TWF > Pein? 

If anything, for now I'll say:

Shodai
Pein
TWF

Once Pein's abilities are shown, maybe it might change or maybe not.


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## the box (Jul 22, 2008)

pain FTW
TWF 
shodia
 nuff said


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## Federer (Jul 22, 2008)

With bijuu the First would kick the ass of Pein. White Fang lacks to much feats, although we know he was a Sannin level, so probably the weakest here.

1. Shodai with Bijuu
2. Pein
3. White Fang.


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## DevilSense (Jul 22, 2008)

Shodai fought Madara and Kakuzu, none of them died.
Pein Fought Hanzou and Jiraiya, Both are dead.
KWF killed fodder nins
Pein>>>Shodai>>>>Konoha's White Fang


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## Distracted (Jul 22, 2008)

Stop necroing old threads, locking.

Moving to the Recycling Heap. —Serenity


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