# Itachi vs. Minato: Who would you want?



## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

_Who would you want?_

_*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.

*2.)* On an espionage mission.

*3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.

*4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.

*5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.




*Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

1) Minato(Gamabunta for crowd control)
2) Itachi(Genjutsu, spied on Akatsuki)
3) Itachi(Genjutsu, Ama-trap)
4) Minato(S/T Barrier, Bunta)
5) Would depend on enemies. 

Bonus: Itachi Kakashi


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> 5) Would depend on enemies.



In general. You know you have to duke it out with two Kage level dudes. 

No preference can be an option I guess.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

Well. Minato can warp me back home and/or suicide himself with Shiki Fujin if necessary. He looks like a safer option. Narutoverse version of me could totally take on two Kages though


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

They are both fodders. :/

I would go with the Kid. U_U


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Mar 7, 2015)

Minato soloes armies.
Minato is the best at sneaking in.  Itachi 
Tie.  Itachi has a better offensive arsenal for single target elimination, but Minato has better get in and out for non-freaks.
Itachi.  Ameterasu.
Minato is better for multiple opponents.  Itachi is worse because of mangekyo backlash.

I guess Minato if I wasn't an Uchiha.  But if I'm not a genius I can't take advantage of Minato's teachings.  Actually Minato would always protect me.  So Minato.


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## Kyu (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Who would you want?_
> 
> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.



Minato. He'd just call upon any member of the boss toad trio to clean house.



> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



Itachi. One of his specialties.



> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.



Itachi if we're sneaking in, stabbing the fucker, and leaving without a trace.

In a scenario where that isn't possible; it'd depend on the kage.



> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.



Toss up. Minato trolls Biju's moveset hard using S/T Barrier and can teleport the beast elsewhere.

Itachi can mindrape it - though I'm unsure how long it'll last.




> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.



Itachi if retreating isn't an option. Otherwise Minato.




> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



Both are extremely intelligent, pretty chill, and carry an aura of badassery in different ways. I'd go with Minato; he'd be more open to give pointers on how to score hot redheaded foreigners.


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

> Actually Minato would always protect me. So Minato.


No. He won't. He couldn't protect his own child, why would you think he would protect you? 



> Itachi. One of his specialties.


the irony. :/


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Who would you want?_
> 
> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.



 Likely Minato due lower chakra consumption and boss summons.



> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



 Itachi by far.



> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.



 Hard to say. Most Kage level ninja can react to Minato's striking speed and if one of them is a sensor, then he's probably fucked. I'll stick with Itachi due to Tsukyomi.



> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.



 Both work well due to Minato's S/T barrier or Itachi's Amaterasu which cripples every Bijuu except Kurama and Genjutsu which pretty much destroys any Tailed Beast



> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.



 Itachi more times than not, especially if they don't have knowledge. Makes it easier just to Tsukyomi GG them both.




> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



 Minato. Has experience as Sensei and multiple techniques that don't require dojutsu or elemental affinities which makes it a lot easier for the person.


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Most Kage level ninja can react to Minato's striking speed.



Minato's "striking speed" is usually only coming into play after he's appeared behind you with a Rasengan aimed at your skull.

Minato can take advantage of_ even the smallest_ of openings to deliver a fatal blow. There is no Kage that can react to him at rest & off guard except perhaps EoS Naruto.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Minato's "striking speed" is usually only coming into play after he's appeared behind you with a Rasengan aimed at your skull.
> 
> Minato can take advantage of_ even the smallest_ of openings to deliver a fatal blow. There is no Kage that can react to him at rest & off guard except perhaps EoS Naruto.



 V2 Ei, Gaara, Muu and Tsunade come to mind.


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> V2 Ei



He failed to do so.



> Gaara, Muu and Tsunade come to mind.



They are less reflexive than Max Power Raikage.


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

Why can't I sleep? 


> =Rocky;53039052]_Who would you want?_
> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.


Assuming there is no falling down for no reason, and all that crap, I would pick Minato. Why?
Because in the manga he did fight thousands of those fodders and actually defeated them. Not sure if Kishi would allow this if he were to rewrite those chapters. Also, I guess if he has this 

On the other hand, there is no way itachi can fight for long, and he does not have jutsu that can kill/defeat a lot all at once.

Of course, that assuming I can't defeat them by myself anyway....  



> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



We haven't seen Minato in such a mission. However, itachi obviously sucks. Dude was 10 years in the Akatsuki as supposedly a spy, and yet no single information was given to konoha.  
judging of his personality and thinking that he is superior to everyone, and can't trust anyone, with the possibility of lying to me. Whatever info he may have will not benefit me (or any other for that matter), and taking so many years will be too long. 

On the other hand, I think it's safer to take Minato for that because if it were a mission on other villages, then he can simply tag any fodder, and leave him without killing him. With that, he can go in and out of the village whenever he (or we) wants without any problem. Of course, itachi did not have a problem entering konoha because he already know the code for the barrier, but that is not the case with the other villages. 

Also, Minato can seal his chakra in said person as he did with Naruto, and thus know all the things he need to know like when he saw everything through Naruto's eyes. In addition for him thinking a teamwork as an important role, I guess would probably trust me, and won't leave me as if I were never there. 



> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.


Minato again because of the fact that the FTG seal never vanish. He can simply tag any fodder (or that kage himself) and teleport to kill him whenever he wants. Or for that matter, he anyone tagged in the village without him/her knowing can simply be as a bomb. 

For example, imagine if he were a dick, and redirected Kurama's TBB via the barrier to A or B. They will be killed without even knowing what happened. However, in itachi's case, it will probably take much harder ways to even get into the village to begin with. 



> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.


again, assuming I can't solo, I would take Minato as well. The guy fought against Kurama, the B, and even the Juubi when redirecting his attacks. His barriers, S/T jutsu, and sealing jutsu would do it.



> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.


Minato. He did actually fight 2 Kage level at the same time one of which being a perfect host. As far as I can tell, itachi never shown able to do such a thing. He lost all of his chakra against Sasuke, he was really tired after using his Genjutsu on Kakashi. He ran away from one jutsu of Jiraiya claiming he needs a rest...etc


So, yeah, the safe option is Minato, assuming I can't solo...




> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



Minato if that would give me the chance to kidnap Naruto.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> He failed to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> They are less reflexive than Max Power Raikage.



 Really?

 Muu managed to block V1 Raikage despite him showing up out of nowhere due to instant teleportation. Even Kabuto implied Muu had no problems tracking V2 Raikage's movements until Onoki sped him up.

 Tsunade can quite frankly react to and hit Susanoo clones that managed to tag Ei.

 And Gaara's can instant block Raikage's descending kick that was meant to kill Sasuke. Gaara's sand is pretty fast, so he should be able to react to Minato's striking speed with his sand considering it's slower than Enton and the Raikage's attacks.

 V2 Ei never failed to do so. That was a Young Ei, who's chakra levels and output pales in comparison to his Adult self which means his shunshin is much slower and thus, he's less reflexive. Adult Ei is a lot stronger, so logically, V2 Ei should be able to react to Minato's striking speed. Even then, Minato had to resort to blindsiding Young Bee instead of attacking Young Ei as that was entirely useless and that same Bee managed to react by raising his Kunai back to kill Minato (even though it was implied they'd both die).


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

Hussain said:


> For example, imagine if he were a dick, and redirected Kurama's TBB via the barrier to A or B.



No lie this had me rolling. B is just there sleeping in his room and a wild Bijudama appears out of his tail..



> Minato if that would give me the chance to kidnap Naruto.



Um


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## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

about the whole trusting thing
 possibility of lying to me

I wouldn't trust any uchiha either, so I guess yeah, it wouldn't work for me....


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## Ersa (Mar 7, 2015)

*1)* Minato(Boss summon and greater stamina reserves, no MS backlash)
*2) *Itachi(Genjutsu, ANBU experience)
*3)* Itachi(Genjutsu, crow clones, Amaterasu shooting crow)
*4)* Itachi (MS fucks Bijuu)
*5)* Either would work here(Minato can protect with S/T, Itachi with Susanoo)

Bonus: Itachi (look how Obito turned out )


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## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

Oh man.



NarutoX28 said:


> Really?
> 
> Muu managed to block V1 Raikage despite him showing up out of nowhere due to instant teleportation. Even Kabuto implied Muu had no problems tracking V2 Raikage's movements until Onoki sped him up.



There was a _flashing light_ that gave Madara & Mu forewarning that something was about to happen. Furthermore, there was presumably enough time for Tsunade & Base A to register their surroundings and deduct that Madara & Mu were actually in the process of an attack, meaning that the two zombies should have had an ample opportunity to put up a guard....which Mu still failed to do.



> Tsunade can quite frankly react to and hit Susanoo clones that managed to tag Ei.



The only time Susano'o managed to get a hold A was when he was standing still yelling at Tsunade.



> And Gaara's can instant block Raikage's descending kick that was meant to kill Sasuke. Gaara's sand is pretty fast, so he should be able to react to Minato's striking speed with his sand considering it's slower than Enton and the Raikage's attacks.



Gaara can intercept A in free fall, but that isn't a good feat. 



> V2 Ei never failed to do so. That was a Young Ei, who's chakra levels and output pales in comparison to his Adult self which means his shunshin is much slower and thus, he's less reflexive. Adult Ei is a lot stronger, so logically, V2 Ei should be able to react to Minato's striking speed.





This argument is unsubstantiated. A never mentioned this. Minato never mentioned this. The story never mentioned this. There is _no_ evidence of Flashback A's stamina or chakra capacity "paling in comparison" to his older self's. Zero. Zilch. Zizerroni. Hell, the entire Naruto vs. A fight even implies the opposite.

And before you claim natural progression, A was 47 in Part II. If we're going to say that A's speed fluctuates depending on age, then I claim that A was _quicker_ during the flashback as he would have been in or closer to his physical prime.



> Even then, Minato had to resort to blindsiding Young Bee instead of attacking Young Ei as that was entirely useless and that same Bee managed to react by raising his Kunai back to kill Minato (even though it was implied they'd both die).



That was because neither B nor A gave Minato any openings to exploit the second time around. Minato was smart enough to figure that out and didn't swing into B's sword.


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## Bonly (Mar 7, 2015)

1) Minato. having bigger chakra reserves and what not

2) Itachi. Apparently no one bar Obito+Zetsu knew about Itachi being a spy(at least I think those two knew) and genjutsu is a good way to try and get info out of someone.

3) Itachi. This would depend on the Kage but I'm an Itachi fanboy so I'd go with Itachi anyway.

4) Itachi. Genjutsu or Ama is gonna screw over most of the Bijuu.

5) Itachi. Pretty much the same reason as number three.

Bonus: Itachi. Same as #3+5 really


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## StarWanderer (Mar 7, 2015)

> Minato soloes armies.



Yet has never solo'ed an army.


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## StarWanderer (Mar 7, 2015)

Bonly said:


> 1) Minato. having bigger chakra reserves and what not
> 
> 2) Itachi. Apparently no one bar Obito+Zetsu knew about Itachi being a spy(at least I think those two knew) and genjutsu is a good way to try and get info out of someone.
> 
> ...



This, except the first one.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

> 1.) In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.


Minato, boss summons rape majority of the army and his FTG allows him to target large groups in a flash. Itachi's stamina would result in his premature death before wiping half of them out. 



> 2.) On an espionage mission.


Itachi, his Genjutsu would prove useful for influencing enemy shinobi to regurgitate information and he was an Anbu Black Opts captain, which means he was an expert in leading teams in and out of these types of missions. 



> 3.) On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.


Either is appropriate depending on the target and the subsequent match up. No clear advantage for either here. 



> 4.) In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.


Minato, he's proven the capacity to stalemate and seal the strongest bijuu, though Amaterasu is a great option for Itachi- the tailed beast would simply respawn weeks later- while Minato would have sealed his target indefinitely regardless of whether he sacrificed his life or not. 

I have my doubts about Sick Itachi's ability to seal a bijuu with Totsuka before exhausting himself, considering it took the Akatsuki days to do it (though Totsuka is perhaps better than Pain's Tiger seal technique). 

On top of that, Minato has defended against the Tailed Beasts' greatest weapon in the Tailed Beast Ball multiple times against Kurama on-panel. Itachi has no real defensive measures against that technique, his Susano would be obliterated and he'd be forced to fire Amaterasu before the attack landed- and that would obviously only result in the above conclusion. 



> 5.) In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.


Minato, he fought A & B with utmost ease and his chakra pool and physical stamina would prove useful when fighting through (perhaps) an extended battle. He'd also blitz most S-ranks at start battle.  

Of course, this again has to do with the match up scenario. Minato has limited damage capacity, he would struggle putting down ninja that Itachi could essentially one-shot with multiple techniques in his arsenal (Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Totsuka Blade). (3rd Raikage, V2+ Killer Bee, Orochimaru, SM Kabuto, etc.). His strongest technique (damage-wise) is SM Rasengan, which wouldn't put down of the ninja previously suggested. Though I firmly believe Minato is more equip to deal with the pool of S-ranks than Itachi is (overall, he is more powerful).



> Bonus: As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).


Minato. Itachi's true power stems from a bloodline limit, he is no where near as naturally talented as Minato who acquired his power through genius and practice.

Itachi's training exercises would essentially begin with "Activate your Sharingan", which I would not have. There's no doubt in my mind that Minato would be more effective in training a subordinate having studied under Jiraiya (who was the subordinate of The Professor and trained generations of S-ranks) and having gained power through his own training techniques, not by staring through the wheel of an advanced Dojutsu that predicts movement and copies Ninjutsu. Most of what made Itachi formidable probably came from the simple evolving of his Sharingan, he likely does not have great training habits, techniques or ideas. Minato, on the other hand, does, and was trained by a ninja (Jiraiya) who was trained by a ninja (Hiruzen) who also gained power through genius and practice. Itachi created nothing, Minato created the Rasengan, The Death Reaper Seal, trained in Senjutsu, perfected Flying Thunder God and number of the most advanced sealing techniques in the world (Uzumaki) and trained to become the fastest perceptual, mental reaction and hand-speed ninja of his time, has great skill and power with basic weapons and is an innate genius with chakra (as showcased during the war). 

Now, if I had a Sharingan, I would choose Itachi as my teacher.


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## Bkprince33 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Who would you want?_
> 
> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.




Minato, better stamina, and already has a track record for soloing large crowds.



Rocky said:


> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



itachi, pretty sure this needs no elaboration 




Rocky said:


> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.



itachi, amatarasu traps, genjutsu, more powerful offensive move set, then minato.




Rocky said:


> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.


itachi, base minato doesn't have the offensive move set to go toe to toe with a tail beast in a death match, if it was more to protect a village i would favor minato, he could warp bijudama, and can warp the beast itself, but itachi has a much better shot at killing the beast via, genjutsu, amatarasu (look what would of happened to the hachibi had it not been for bee's quick thinking) and totsuka.




Rocky said:


> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.



depends, it's very close, itachi can potentially mind rape one and use one of the shinobi against each other, minato on the other hand will have a much easier time, testing the duos abilities without putting himself at risk. If the the two shinobois have knowledge, ill go with minato, if they have no knowledge i will go with itachi.





Rocky said:


> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



minato easy, while itachi is very talented and skilled, minato has a proven track record as a sensei.


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## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Who would you want?_
> 
> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.
> 
> ...



1. Minato can come and go as he pleases, so he's much better here.

2. Itachi's genjutsu and spy experience makes him better here.

3. Both could get the job done, but I like Amaterasu traps.

4. The Totsuka would put a beast down fast and easy.

5. Itachi if they have no knowledge, Minato if they have knowledge.

6. N00b Genin are so low level it doesn't matter.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

That was an interesting edit.


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## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

Aren't they all?


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

> 4. The Totsuka would put a beast down fast and easy.


You think Sick Itachi can seal a Tailed Beast? 

That's a lot of chakra and mass to suck into a bottle "fast and easy"

He's definitely not sealing Kurama before croaking.


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## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> You think Sick Itachi can seal a Tailed Beast?
> 
> That's a lot of chakra and mass to suck into a bottle "fast and easy"
> 
> He's definitely not sealing Kurama before croaking.



The Totsuka abosrbed Nagato without much apparent effort after Nagato absorbed most of the Hachibi's chakra, and Nagato easily has as much chakra as a tailed beast himself.

So yeah, the Totsuka can seal any tailed beast in my opinion, and even if Kurama is the exception, he can control him with the MS anyway. In either case, Itachi's going to have an easier time.

Plus he doesn't need to seal them anyway, just kill them. Genjutsu pacification + cleave off their heads with the legendary Totsuka, and they won't be back for another few years.​


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> The Totsuka Nagato without much apparent effort after Nagato absorbed most of the Hachibi's chakra, and Nagato easily has as much chakra as a tailed beast by himself.
> 
> So yeah, he can seal any tailed beast with the possible exception of Kurama, who he can control with the MS anyway. In either case, Itachi's going to have a easier time.​


Nagato has no where near the chakra pool or mass of a tailed beast. During the war they were tireless, multiple people used them as chakra devices over hours of extended battle (Edo Jins, Jubito, Judara, Naruto). Their very flesh is a manifestation of chakra. 

Nagato did not absorb anywhere close to most of the Hachibi's chakra, he absorbed a V2 Cloak which could not even manifest a mini-Bijuudama.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

As for teaching... Look at stuff they both can pass down on average non-fodder student. Using only shown stuff.

Itachi: Suiton jutsu, Katon jutsu, Bunshin Primer(KB, explosive KB, Karasu Bunshin, feints), genjutsu basics, advanced shuriken/kunai techs, Crow contract

Minato: Rasengan, Toad contract, KB.

Itachi is more about basic stuff refined up to extremes. Minato is more about one high-end signature jutsu that only two people in the world were able to use. Toad Contract is OP but the student would need extremely high chakra levels to fully benefit from it. So random genin would be better with Itachi imo - he'd at least would be able to pick up basic Suiton/Katon, a trick or two about basic tools usage, budget summon and advanced genjutsu theory. 

That being said most of genin don't seem to directly learn abilities from their teacher. It's more about passing down work-ethics and general experience. In which Itachi and Minato are fairly equal.


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## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

If A was stated to have tailed beast chakra levels by Karin, then Nagato definitely does. I remember ZE frequently linking where Nagato's chakra was hyped extravagantly in the Pain Arc.

And after absorbing the v2 cloak, I think the Hachibi told Bee that he was sucked dry and out of chakra. So Nagato would have been tailed beast level at that point for certain.​


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

Stated is irrelevant, he does not have tailed beast chakra levels. The war-arc showcased how ridiculous the tailed beast's chakra pools are. 

Hashirama has tailed beast chakra levels, Ei does not even come close.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

Karin was around Hachibi going wild. After that she sensed A's chakra and called it "biju level". Hashirama's chakra dwarfs said "biju level".


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## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

I think your opinion of tailed beasts is too high, Wiz. 50% of Kurama was stalemating multiple other tailed beasts, right?

So I'd say Hashirama had much more than a standard tailed beast, A had about as much as a tailed beast, and Nagato is in between those two. That's within reason to me.​


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Karin was around Hachibi going wild. After that she sensed A's chakra and called it "biju level". Hashirama's chakra dwarfs said "biju level".


No, she sensed A's shunshin which required a large amount of chakra to produce. "Bijuu level" is a term that is used when Kishimoto has nothing else to compare it to, because it's so much larger than the average ninja's pool of chakra.

If you actually think his chakra pool is on the level of something that can manifest a mountain-busting nuke you are on something.  



Strategoob said:


> I think your opinion of tailed beasts is too high, Wiz. 50% of Kurama was basically matching the first seven tailed beasts, if memory serves. Hashirama had much more than a standard tailed beast, A has about as much as them, and Nagato is in between the two. That's within reason to me.​


I disagree, the War-arc showcased the bijuu going from one vessel to another, performing at near peak level for extended days of battle. The combination of their powers created something with literally, according to Kurama, infinite chakra that could not be intelligently gauged by Naruto or himself.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Oh man.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a _flashing light_ that gave Madara & Mu forewarning that something was about to happen. Furthermore, there was presumably enough time for Tsunade & Base A to register their surroundings and deduct that Madara & Mu were actually in the process of an attack, meaning that the two zombies should have had an ample opportunity to put up a guard....which Mu still failed to do.



 Except the shock that they both had suggests some extra difficulty trying to block the attack. It doesn't matter in this case if they had a forewarning of the attack or not considering in just a split second, both V1 Raikage and Tsunade would appear and having to react to their striking speed when they can hardly see them due to the flash is impressive, no matter how you slice it.

_flashing light_

 He did not fail to do so. He reacted perfectly, but got sent flying due to his lack of physical strength. 




> The only time Susano'o managed to get a hold A was when he was standing still yelling at Tsunade.




_flashing light_

 I meant here when there was no sign of shock like there was when the clone grabbed him




> Gaara can intercept A in free fall, but that isn't a good feat.



 It doesn't matter. Gaara's sand can still react to Enton and Susanoo clones, the same ones that are fast enough to gat Ei and that was when Gaara was worrying about both Mei and himself.





> This argument is unsubstantiated. A never mentioned this. Minato never mentioned this. The story never mentioned this. There is _no_ evidence of Flashback A's stamina or chakra capacity "paling in comparison" to his older self's. Zero. Zilch. Zizerroni. Hell, the entire Naruto vs. A fight even implies the opposite.



 Adult Ei's chakra levels were suggested to Bijuu Level (Output of Chakra), Young Ei's Chakra didn't even phase Minato. The only thing that phased him was his speed, but we all know the output of chakra has an impact on your Shunshin speed. There's also the fact that Raikage mentions never being able to outspeed Minato no matter how hard he tried meaning he had to have been getting faster for that statement to be valid.



> And before you claim natural progression, A was 47 in Part II. If we're going to say that A's speed fluctuates depending on age, then I claim that A was _quicker_ during the flashback as he would have been in or closer to his physical prime.



 Young Bee didn't get any stronger from his fight with Minato until Shippuuden despite Natural Progession. You agree with this I'm assuming?





> That was because neither B nor A gave Minato any openings to exploit the second time around. Minato was smart enough to figure that out and didn't swing into B's sword.



 True, but how does that refute that attacking Ei would be meaningless even though Ei himself has to put in effort just to anticipate where he's going to teleport? It still doesn't refute that Bee managed to react to Minato's Hiraishin somewhat even though it wasn't the most effective counter.


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## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

A's father fought second strongest biju up to mutual exhaustion. A himself was never tired except in the last stage of the war - when he was facing chakra sucking Buddha. After fighting Uchiha Madara and nearly dying. Kishimoto isn't a great/consistent writer but it doesn't meant you can make up a random bullshit system in your mind and disregard every canon statement you don't like.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> A's father fought second strongest biju up to mutual exhaustion. A himself was never tired except in the last stage of the war - when he was facing chakra sucking Buddha. After fighting Uchiha Madara and nearly dying. Kishimoto isn't a great/consistent writer but it doesn't meant you can make up a random bullshit system in your mind and disregard every canon statement you don't like.


Fighting to exhaustion =/= equal chakra pool. He cut his tails, which resulted in Gyuki losing consciousness. 

Mathematically, there is absolutely no way the 3rd Raikage had a larger chakra pool than Gyuki unless you think he was trading mountain-busting Black Lightning with Gyuki's mountain-busting Tailed Beast Bombs before they exhausted each other. 

It's about as canon as Kabuto stating nobody could defeat Kimimaro and that he was completely indestructible, or Itachi bullshitting up the story of the Uchiha Brothers. 

Canon is feat-based, and feats completely contradict your flimsy statement from Karin observing a shunshin and making a ridiculous claim. The bijuu in the war displayed nearly inextinguishable chakra pools.


----------



## StarWanderer (Mar 7, 2015)

> Hashirama has tailed beast chakra levels, Ei does not even come close.



It is stated in the manga that Ei has tailed beast level chakra.


----------



## Alex Payne (Mar 7, 2015)

Oh boy



DaVizWiz said:


> Fighting to exhaustion =/= equal chakra pool. He cut his tails, which resulted in Gyuki losing consciousness.


 Show where he cut his tails. Show me when it was stated that Hachibi passed out because of that.



DaVizWiz said:


> Mathematically, there is absolutely no way the 3rd Raikage had a larger chakra pool than Gyuki unless you think he was busting mountains with Black Lightning.


 Mathematics... In Kishi's manga. You bash his work because it is inconsistent and then use _mathematics_ based on Kishi's inconsistent work to prove your point. Let me ask you this - what takes more chakra - Tsukuyomi or Deidara's C2?



DaVizWiz said:


> It's about as canon as Kabuto stating nobody could defeat Kimimaro, or Itachi bullshitting up the story of the Uchiha Brothers.


 Except it is not. Karin simply compared what she sensed from Hachibi to what she sensed from Raikage. What was the word... Oh, yeah. Mathematics. 



DaVizWiz said:


> Canon is feat-based, and feats completely contradict your flimsy statement from Karin observing a shunshin.


 I see you also have your own unique definition of canon. Must be nice. Choose parts of canon work you don't like and then ignore them. And then change the definition of canon itself to make your views look "official".

Biju level chakra is a broad term. You have Kisame, A and lower Tails. Then you have Kyubi which was needed to be sealed last to counterbalance the rest of the Biju. And who at half power wrecked a group of lower Tails. Nagato's feats place him comfortably in that broad tier.  

Why am I even debating this in Itachi vs Minato thread. I hate you, Strat. It is your fault.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Mar 7, 2015)

This is Kakashi's words:
_flashing light_

Is it canon that Kakashi knows 1,000 Jutsu?

No, it's not. And no one would consider such a ridiculous claim by the author to be truth. 

Not only do feats disprove the claim above, end chapter exaggerations, which are largely designed to excite the reader for the next issue, are common throughout this manga.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> As for teaching... Look at stuff they both can pass down on average non-fodder student. Using only shown stuff.
> 
> Itachi: Suiton jutsu, Katon jutsu, Bunshin Primer(KB, explosive KB, Karasu Bunshin, feints), genjutsu basics, advanced shuriken/kunai techs, Crow contract
> 
> ...



Other than Minato, was there any sensai who made his student chunin/jonin level in a fairly young age? 
(Keep in mind he was training them in a war-zone as well)

Also, Minato has the fire, wind, and lightning element. 
also, he is very good with the Kunais as well even Tobirama praised him in that regard...





He could teach the FTG as well like he did with the 3 fodders.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 7, 2015)

Minato can't notice the power of Rin, how pity. 

No wonder why he'd rather teach fodders Hiraishin but not his precious students.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

He had to teach everyone tho. 

Also, teaching someone is better than teaching no-one. Your beloved itachi is a student of Minato's student. 
the same is true for his brother I may add 

Rin learned how to resist the Genjutsu orders tho, and Kakashi to break it.


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 7, 2015)

He must have some serious issues on Kakashi if he'd rather teach fodders his signature jutsu but not the genius.  

Under Minato's teaching Obito is nothing but fodder. He didn't even help Obito open his Sharingan. 

Come on, even Part 1 Sakura knows how to resist Genjutsu. Rin's power is far beyond such level and Minato notices nothing.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

- Kakashi does not have enough chakra, and those fodders were all 3 at the same, and their work is different.
- The uchiha are fodders, and obito became chunin before even activating the sharingan. Sasuke couldn't become
one even with the sharingan. 



> Come on, even Part 1 Sakura knows how to resist Genjutsu. Rin's power is far beyond such level and Minato notices nothing.



The will fire, not her actual power. 
part 1 Sakura was not chunin, nor was she able to do any medical jutsu either. 
Even Rin's stats were better than her, and near to end of part 1 Sasuke.


----------



## Dr. White (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _Who would you want?_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 7, 2015)

Hussain said:


> - Kakashi does not have enough chakra, and those fodders were all 3 at the same, and their work is different.
> - The uchiha are fodders, and obito became chunin before even activating the sharingan. Sasuke couldn't become
> one even with the sharingan.
> 
> ...



Hiraishin isn't chakra-taxing, and fodders' Ninjutsu talent is so far below Kakashi yet Minato never tries. 

Will power is counted as power in this manga, look at poor Hiruzen and Obito. 

Are you seriously comparing Part 1 Sasuke to Rin the godslayer?  

That only proves Kakashi is a bad teacher, doesn't make Minato the best in the world.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> Hiraishin isn't chakra-taxing, and fodders' Ninjutsu talent is so far below Kakashi yet Minato never tries.
> 
> Will power is counted as power in this manga, look at poor Hiruzen and Obito.
> 
> ...



- pfff, yes it is. 
How do you know that their talent is below Kakashi? 

- Will power is not by giving up and all that crap. She did not. 
- Good, so Minato made her in that level a WOMAN in KISHI'S manga. What do you want more? 
- Did not say he is the best. He actually sucks. 
tho, still better than itachi nonetheless...


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 7, 2015)

Kakashi created Raikiri in 14 while those fodders invent nothing in their 30s still. 

Even Tenten shows more than Rin under their teachers, not a good point. 

Minato fails to explore the full potential of Rin. At least Itachi never has students go mad and destroy the world., teaching no-one is better than teaching someone for the Shinobi World now.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> This is Kakashi's words:
> _flashing light_
> 
> Is it canon that Kakashi knows 1,000 Jutsu?
> ...



 Karin outright stated that Ei's Chakra levels are Bijuu level and the only Bijuu Karin sensed was the Hachibi. We're not making shit up, this is what's exactly stated. I don't understand why we should ignore an author's claim considering he's the one writing the manga.

 And yes, Kakashi does know 1000 jutsu considering it's widely known by every elite ninja and it's never contradicted. Having Kakashi use 1000 jutsus in the manga would be too time-consuming for Kishimoto and not worth the effort.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

itachi himself went mad, and helped destroying the world. 
you forgot who was responsible for brining more members to the Akatsuki, and who fought
against Konoha, so the akatsuki can obtain Gaara's Bijuu? 

he had no students, but sure as hell he had a brother, and he made him a criminal as well. lol


----------



## Legendary Itachi (Mar 7, 2015)

And all this happens because of Minato's failure at start. :ignoramus


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

Legendary Itachi said:


> And all this happens because of Minato's failure at start. :ignoramus



I would say it's because of Hashirama's failure of killing madara.  
and then Tobirama's stupidity comes to play when he did not know it was a clone. lol



NarutoX28 said:


> Karin outright stated that Ei's Chakra levels are Bijuu level and the only Bijuu Karin sensed was the Hachibi. We're not making shit up, this is what's exactly stated. I don't understand why we should ignore an author's claim considering he's the one writing the manga.
> 
> And yes, Kakashi does know 1000 jutsu considering it's widely known by every elite ninja and it's never contradicted. Having Kakashi use 1000 jutsus in the manga would be too time-consuming for Kishimoto and not worth the effort.



I would say it's ironic you said that.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Hussain said:


> I would say it's because of Hashirama's failure of killing madara.
> and then Tobirama's stupidity comes to play when he did not know it was a clone. lol
> 
> 
> ...



 I would say it's ironic I said that too.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> E It doesn't matter in this case if they had a forewarning of the attack or not considering in just a split second, both V1 Raikage and Tsunade would appear and having to react to their striking speed when they can hardly see them due to the flash is impressive, no matter how you slice it.



The difference between _Base_ A & Tsunade's attack following Mabui's technique and Minato's Hiraishin is _Minato being aware of his target's position prior to teleporting._ That can be the difference between a blocked strike or a fatal blow. 



			
				NarutoX28 said:
			
		

> He did not fail to do so. He reacted perfectly, but got sent flying due to his lack of physical strength.



I see no indication that Mu actually got his arms up in time.



			
				NarutoX28 said:
			
		

> I meant here when there was no sign of shock like there was when the clone grabbed him.



If you're talking about A catching Susano'o's blade with his hand, then that isn't getting "tagged" in my book. It's blocking.

A can avoid Amaterasu and point blank laser cannons. He can avoid Susano'o without issue.



			
				NarutoX28 said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter. Gaara's sand can still react to Enton and Susanoo clones, the same ones that are fast enough to gat Ei and that was when Gaara was worrying about both Mei and himself.



If Minato can avoid Obito and strike from above _before the Uchiha can reactivate Kamui_, then there is no feasible way that Gaara possesses the reflexes to react to a Hiraishin speed blitz unless he in aware of the exact moment Minato will jump and begins moving his sand into position before Minato actually does so. The exact speed of Gaara's sand itself is irrelevant, 'cause we know it ain't faster than Kamui.



			
				NarutoX28 said:
			
		

> Adult Ei's chakra levels were suggested to Bijuu Level (Output of Chakra), Young Ei's Chakra didn't even phase Minato. The only thing that phased him was his speed, but we all know the output of chakra has an impact on your Shunshin speed. There's also the fact that Raikage mentions never being able to outspeed Minato no matter how hard he tried meaning he had to have been getting faster for that statement to be valid.



Flashback A's chakra levels were never touched upon, so I have no reason to believe they were not Biju-level back then as well. 

A never being able to out-speed Minato suggests he _didn't_ get faster, because they seemed rather close during the Flashback.



			
				NarutoX28 said:
			
		

> Young Bee didn't get any stronger from his fight with Minato until Shippuuden despite Natural Progession. You agree with this I'm assuming?



Generally stronger? Probably, due to having time to master his Jinchuriki abilities. Faster? Probably not



			
				NaruoX28 said:
			
		

> True, but how does that refute that attacking Ei would be meaningless even though Ei himself has to put in effort just to anticipate where he's going to teleport? It still doesn't refute that Bee managed to react to Minato's Hiraishin somewhat even though it wasn't the most effective counter.



Attacking an on-guard A would be meaningless, but the target of an assassination isn't going to be on guard. .

When you attack somebody, you leave yourself open to counter attacks. When A charged the first time, he was completely invested in landing that punch. So when Minato dodged, A was left vulnerable. When A charged Minato the second time, he was _faking_ the attack in order to force the use of Hiraishin, and was going to _actually attack_ whichever spot Minato jumped to. 

Since Hiraishin is instantaneous, reacting to an unpredicted attack from Minato requires either body speed (reflexes) that dwarf his own - like Jubi Madara - or a way of accurately predicting the precise moment that Minato will warp and preparing a guard right before he does so - like Killer B.

A, Tsunade, and Gaara have neither.


----------



## Sadgoob (Mar 7, 2015)

Alex Payne said:


> Why am I even debating this in Itachi vs Minato thread. I hate you, Strat. It is your fault.



You love me.


----------



## Trojan (Mar 7, 2015)

this natural progession is laughable.
especially that the world was at peace to some degree, and even Onoki pointed out that problem in term of training and those stuff
 Just because you get older does not mean you get better. Tsunade went through a lot of terrible against part 1 Kabuto, even though she became older.

Kakashi became weaker later on as he lost his sharingan. Naruto lost his RM, Hiruzen became weaker as he
got older, and so on and so fourth. lol

and then we have the rookies, throughout part 2, they barely become better save for team 10. 
at the age of 13/14 Lee was able to use 5 Gates. However, after those 6 years, he can only use 6 gates, that progession is not as fast as it used to be. 

The same with itachi, and the MS users in general who lose their sight at the time passes. Hanzu got weaker as well after losing his "faith" 

Needless to say the ninja world is not natural to begin with.


----------



## Otsutsuki Naruto (Mar 7, 2015)

1. Definitely minato his hiraishin is an army killer and can take down thousands of mid level opponents in an instant

2. Itachi is a stealth and genjutsu genius and has experience spying on the most powerful organization in the world (akatsuki) that had two of the best spymasters in history part of it (sasori and zetsu) while minato doesn't have any experience in spying nor had any great talent toward genjutsu and was generally more... well... flashy (pun not intended)

3. depends if you want no one to know that you did it or not , because while minato is perfectly able to kill a kage he will make alot of noise while itachi can probably do it without anyone knowing it was him, so I say itachi.

4. Only a jinchuriki can ever hope to defeat a biju without the use of fuinjutsu and while itachi can momentarily control a biju he wont have anything destructive enough to actually defeat it and controlling a biju without an eternal mangenkyou will put massive strain on a normal mangenkyou eye and he doesn't have much knowledge of fuinjutsu while minato has more destructive ninjutsu a more powerful summon and a is a genuine seal master, so for this I say minato.

5. It will most likely be a tie while itachi uses more precise attacks, minato uses more destructive moves so I think they will fair the same.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> The difference between _Base_ A & Tsunade's attack following Mabui's technique and Minato's Hiraishin is _Minato being aware of his target's position prior to teleporting._ That can be the difference between a blocked strike or a fatal blow.



 That's a fair point, but that doesn't refute the fact that Madara and Muu's vision was hampered due to the flash and the fact that judging by their reactions, it was a complete surprise attack.





> I see no indication that Mu actually got his arms up in time.



 His fist collided with Ei's. I see no reason why Muu can't react Minato's striking speed considering he's a skilled sensor, more reflexive than Young Bee, and can react to KCM Naruto's physical speed.





> If you're talking about A catching Susano'o's blade with his hand, then that isn't getting "tagged" in my book. It's blocking.
> 
> A can avoid Amaterasu and point blank laser cannons. He can avoid Susano'o without issue.



 Fair enough though Ei couldn't dodge the Susanoo swords no matter how you slice it.

 Sure, Ei can avoid Amaterasu and Point Blank Laser Cannons, the latter actually giving Ei some prep time to actually anticipate the jutsu considering Jugo's cannons sticking out of his back would certainly be suspicious.

 Fact of the matter is, Ei failed to dodge the Susanoo clones and had to resort to blocking one of them meaning they are fast.




> If Minato can avoid Obito and strike from above _before the Uchiha can reactivate Kamui_, then there is no feasible way that Gaara possesses the reflexes to react to a Hiraishin speed blitz unless he in aware of the exact moment Minato will jump and begins moving his sand into position before Minato actually does so. The exact speed of Gaara's sand itself is irrelevant, 'cause we know it ain't faster than Kamui.



 Minato only managed that Hiraishin speed blitz due to Obito leaving himself in a vulnerable position as he believed he could actually strike Minato in time. This actually helps me more considering Obito could and Minato had to rely on a surprise Hiraishin speed blitz to down Young Obito who's reflexes are not on the level of elite ninjas, so he was unable to Kamui as using it requires his reflexes.

 Furthermore, Minato's Hiraishin speed blitz on Obito is similar to Tobirama's speed blitz on Juubito where SM Naruto slammed his Rasengan into Juubito's weak-spot. Those two instances also are rather similar. Tobirama only managed it due to tagging his opponent. Minato only managed to "tag" his opponent because he used his intangibility against him. The reason I say "tag" is because the Kunai was within an inch away from Obito's skin meaning it was similar to a tag and allowed him to Hiraishin speed blitz Obito because of it, the same way Juubito got speed blitzed by Tobirama and Naruto to begin with.

 With an assassination, Minato will not have that luxury. Throwing a Kunai at a Kage level Ninja especially when that Ninja is a sensory ninja like Muu hurts Minato more as he then has to rely more on his striking speed attack his opponent considering a Kunai on the ground isn't necessarily similar to a tag or a Kunai placed directly within physical contact against his opponent meaning Minato is not speed blitzing.

 So considering Gaara can still react with his sand to block Susanoo clones despite also helping out Mei means he should react to Minato's striking speed with his sand considering Susanoo clones can actually touch Ei. Minato cannot.



> Flashback A's chakra levels were never touched upon, so I have no reason to believe they were not Biju-level back then as well.



 There's no reason why A's chakra levels should be Bijuu level considering the only person's that was was the 3rd Raikage's and also the fact that his chakra levels never phased Minato at all. The only thing that did was his sheer speed. There's no reason to believe why Young Ei suddenly has chakra levels on par with the 3rd Raikage's or why he has Bijuu level chakra to begin with unless you have a scan that supports he does.



> A never being able to out-speed Minato suggests he _didn't_ get faster, because they seemed rather close during the Flashback.



 A's statement within context means he did get faster as he admits no matter how hard he tried, there was no one out there, especially Ei who could keep up, so Minato w/ FTG was just that fast for him.




> Generally stronger? Probably, due to having time to master his Jinchuriki abilities. Faster? Probably not.



 What makes you believe that a very inexperienced Bee didn't get faster? You seriously think Base Bee was Akatsuki level here or has the physical feats required to challenge Team Taka?





> Attacking an on-guard A would be meaningless, but the target of an assassination isn't going to be on guard. .



 That's actually a fair point. 



> When you attack somebody, you leave yourself open to counter attacks. When A charged the first time, he was completely invested in landing that punch. So when Minato dodged, A was left vulnerable.



 So basically, if Minato attacks during the assassination and fails to do so, he leaves himself open for a counter attack?



> When A charged Minato the second time, he was _faking_ the attack in order to force the use of Hiraishin, and was going to _actually attack_ whichever spot Minato jumped to.



 And so thus, most Kage Level Shinobi can actually anticipate where Minato will strike considering he will warp to where the Kunai is and take advantage of it. Unlike Ei, the other Shinobi will not give Minato an opportunity to throw his Kunai all over the battle-field making it a lot easier for the Kage Level Shinobi to counterattack Minato.



> Since Hiraishin is instantaneous, reacting to an unpredicted attack from Minato requires either body speed (reflexes) that dwarf his own - like Jubi Madara - or a way of accurately predicting the precise moment that Minato will warp and preparing a guard right before he does so - like Killer B.



 Well yeah, their reflexes must be able above Minato's striking speed which they are. Tsunade specializes in Taijutsu and Evasive Maneuvers, Gaara's reflexes are high enough to defend against Susanoo clones that were threatening both him and Mei, and Muu is a highly skilled sensor who can react to KCM Naruto's physical movement speed (excluding Chakra arms) and even track V2 Ei's level of speed meaning Minato's striking speed shouldn't be anything for Muu.



> A, Tsunade, and Gaara have neither.



But bruh.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 7, 2015)

How does Nagato not have Bijuu levels of chakra? Maybe not Kurama level but I suspect he's on par with the weaker Bijuu.

The guy is borderline top tier status, levels villages and forced the Kyuubi in KN8 without his full powered Chibaku Tensei. He's an Uzumaki as well who managed some control of Madara's Rinnegan. Everything points to him having crazy reserves. 

The he got tired argument is bullshit.  Bijuu have shown to tire as well and need time to recover which is exactly the same for shinobi.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> How does Nagato not have Bijuu levels of chakra? Maybe not Kurama level but I suspect he's on par with the weaker Bijuu.
> 
> The guy is borderline top tier status, levels villages and forced the Kyuubi in KN8 without his full powered Chibaku Tensei. He's an Uzumaki as well who managed some control of Madara's Rinnegan. Everything points to him having crazy reserves.
> 
> The he got tired argument is bullshit.  Bijuu have shown to tire as well and need time to recover which is exactly the same for shinobi.



 Chakra Output is different from Chakra Reserves.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 7, 2015)

What points to him not having Bijuu levels though?

I don't even get why the Bijuu was so vastly overhyped when it's clear Kurama is so head and far above the rest that someone utilizing 50% of his reserves can humiliate the rest of the Bijuu. Ordinary Kages have had attrition fights with Bijuu, Ei has been stated to have Bijuu levels of chakra and Nagato is miles ahead of the Raikages in chakra reserves.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 7, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> What points to him not having Bijuu levels though?
> 
> I don't even get why the Bijuu was so vastly overhyped when it's clear Kurama is so head and far above the rest that someone utilizing 50% of his reserves can humiliate the rest of the Bijuu. Ordinary Kages have had attrition fights with Bijuu, Ei has been stated to have Bijuu levels of chakra and Nagato is miles ahead of the Raikages in chakra reserves.



 It doesn't mean he can accumulate that much chakra. Nagato has never been shown to be able to do this. Raikage can. Unless Nagato's techniques rivals the Bijuu (except Kurama), I don't see Nagato having Bijuu level chakra.

 But I agree, 50% Kurama is so far above the other Bijuu that it's ridiculous.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 7, 2015)

So you honestly think Raikage has more chakra then Nagato who can use the Rinnegan and is an Uzumaki?

Um okay then.

Generally greater firepower requires more chakra reserves. Nagato levels entire cities while Raikage punches holes in the ground but Raikage clearly has more chakra.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 8, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> So you honestly think Raikage has more chakra then Nagato who can use the Rinnegan and is an Uzumaki?



Er the 3rd & 4th Raikage are kinda special, physically. You know, with the whole Tailed Beast-level chakra and the fighting for three days. The title of Uzumaki alone doesn't measure up.



> Generally greater firepower requires more chakra reserves. Nagato levels entire cities while Raikage punches holes in the ground but Raikage clearly has more chakra.



A doesn't have access to any techniques that can level villages.  

He uses that chakra to use sustain a cloak that allows him to move faster than a Mangekyou Shraingan can perceive, which is something Nagato cannot replicate.


----------



## Ersa (Mar 8, 2015)

Okay.

Would you suggest the chakra required for that cloak is comparable to the chakra needed to level a city? Because I don't personally.


----------



## Rocky (Mar 8, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> Would you suggest the chakra required for that cloak is comparable to the chakra needed to level a city? Because I don't personally.



Unless I'm missing something, that depends on how long A decides to sustain his shroud.


----------



## Itachі (Mar 8, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.



Minato.

Toads slaughter them.



> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



Not really sure how each one stacks up in this regard tbh. Itachi was in ANBU and can extract information easily but Minato has the advantage of being able to teleport and get out easily. 



> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.



Depends on the target.



> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.



Minato. He's able to seal it forever whereas Itachi can only kill it for it to spawn again sometime later.



> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi



Again, depends on the target.



> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



Like Alex Payne said, I think Itachi has more to offer to the average student. Minato could teach basic tactics but as far as Jutsu goes, he's very limited. He hasn't displayed many versatile Jutsu that could be taught to most. Itachi could teach Suiton, Katon, Bunshin, etc.


----------



## StarWanderer (Mar 8, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> This is Kakashi's words:
> bleeding
> 
> Is it canon that Kakashi knows 1,000 Jutsu?
> ...



Maybe he havent used them? He was at 3rd World War. He could copy 1000 jutsu's for different missions which could be ineffective in 4 World War?


----------



## pluuuuffff (Mar 8, 2015)

*1) In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.*

That's easy for minato. I'm going with Itachi.

*2.) On an espionage mission.*

Itachi already did. Going with Minato.

*3.) On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.*

Minato for the show.

*4.) In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.*

Itachi = easy win with MS.

Going with Minato.

*5.) In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.*

Minato. Itachi's single-target show, it's hard for him to deal with 2 shinobis.

*B?nus:*

Both good senseis, I guess.

Itachi for those who wants to use Illusions...
Minato for those who wants to finish fights quickly, with speed.


----------



## DaVizWiz (Mar 8, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Karin outright stated that Ei's Chakra levels are Bijuu level and the only Bijuu Karin sensed was the Hachibi. We're not making shit up, this is what's exactly stated. I don't understand why we should ignore an author's claim considering he's the one writing the manga.
> 
> And yes, Kakashi does know 1000 jutsu considering it's widely known by every elite ninja and it's never contradicted. Having Kakashi use 1000 jutsus in the manga would be too time-consuming for Kishimoto and not worth the effort.


No ninja in the manga knows 1,000 Jutsu.

Kabuto outright stated Kimimaro was indestructible and there was no one who could beat him, Hashirama outright stated Itachi was a better shinobi than him, Black Zetsu outright stated Itachi was invincible, Might Gai outright stated Rock Lee couldn't lose to anyone, Kankuro outright stated no physical attacks work against Gaara, Naruto outright stated Gaara's defense was the "strongest", Madara outright stated no one but Hashirama could stop him, Mu outright stated numbers don't matter against him and that only Onoki could beat him, Kisame outright stated he doesn't get tired and that he can't be defeated and the end of chapter 471 states his fused transformation "has no weaknesses", ALL general bullshit 

What is your point NarutoX28? People in the manga can be wrong, for a number of reasons. Whether it's meant for exaggeration or they're simply being idiotic, they can be wrong. Karin is not the author, and her statement is not immune to criticism just because YOU want it to be.

Ei does not have a bijuu level chakra pool, that is my stance. He does not have the feats to suggest it. Now, counter it with feats, or don't bother replying.


----------



## UchihaX28 (Mar 8, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> No ninja in the manga knows 1,000 Jutsu.
> 
> Kabuto outright stated Kimimaro was indestructible and there was no one who could beat him, Hashirama outright stated Itachi was a better shinobi than him, Black Zetsu outright stated Itachi was invincible, Might Gai outright stated Rock Lee couldn't lose to anyone, Kankuro outright stated no physical attacks work against Gaara, Naruto outright stated Gaara's defense was the "strongest", Madara outright stated no one but Hashirama could stop him, Mu outright stated numbers don't matter against him and that only Onoki could beat him, Kisame outright stated he doesn't get tired and that he can't be defeated and the end of chapter 471 states his fused transformation "has no weaknesses", ALL general bullshit
> 
> What is your point NarutoX28? People in the manga can be wrong, for a number of reasons. Whether it's meant for exaggeration or they're simply being idiotic, they can be wrong. Karin is not the author, and her statement is not immune to criticism just because YOU want it to be.



 Except all of those statements were contradicted. The many statements that implied Kakashi has copied 1000 jutsus is not contradicted, therefore, Kishimoto wants us to believe it's true. It'd be stupid for Kishimoto to make that clear from the very beginning of the manga and even state it during Part 2 if it wasn't true. All of those statements were contradicted fairly quickly. For Kakashi to be known for copying 1000 jutsus and be stated to do so even during Part 2 should suggest it's a fact as ridiculous as that may seem. 



> Ei does not have a bijuu level chakra pool, that is my stance. He does not have the feats to suggest it. Now, counter it with feats, or don't bother replying.



 I never claimed he did. I claimed he can use Chakra Levels on par with that of the Hachibi, but that doesn't imply his Chakra pool is comparable to a Bijuu.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 8, 2015)

> Except all of those statements were contradicted. The many statements that implied Kakashi has copied 1000 jutsus is not contradicted, therefore, Kishimoto wants us to believe it's true. It'd be stupid for Kishimoto to make that clear from the very beginning of the manga and even state it during Part 2 if it wasn't true. All of those statements were contradicted fairly quickly. For Kakashi to be known for copying 1000 jutsus and be stated to do so even during Part 2 should suggest it's a fact as ridiculous as that may seem.


So what you're saying is because the manga did not deliberately contradict a ridiculous statement made by Karin that her statement is indeed correct regardless of whether Ei hasn't shown anything remotely close to bijuu-level chakra pool feats and regardless of the fact that bijuu have shown to have the most emormous pools in the manga?

Incredible logic. Dude, I'm certain the burden is on you to PROVE he has it. 



> I never claimed he did. I claimed he can use Chakra Levels on par with that of the Hachibi, but that doesn't imply his Chakra pool is comparable to a Bijuu.


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## UchihaX28 (Mar 8, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> So what you're saying is because the manga did not deliberately contradict a ridiculous statement made by Karin that her statement is indeed correct regardless of whether Ei hasn't shown anything remotely close to bijuu-level chakra pool feats and regardless of the fact that bijuu have shown to have the most emormous pools in the manga?
> 
> Incredible logic. Dude, I'm certain the burden is on you to PROVE he has it.



 The burden is on you to prove that I stated Ei has Chakra Reserves on par with that of a Bijuu. I can't help you if you don't know the difference between Chakra Output and Chakra Reserves.

 Edit: I tried to word that the best I can, but if it wasn't clear, what I really meant is that his Chakra Output is Bijuu Level.

bleeding

 Here you go.


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## Sadgoob (Mar 8, 2015)

I feel like Nagato being able to maintain six powerful ninja by transmitting his chakra over a mile away, even without the whole city-leveling blast, indicates an exceptionally huge chakra.

And since this was originally brought up by me, after Nagato drained most of the Hachibi's chakra, I feel like it's all a moot point anyway. The Totsuka can absolutely seal bijuu amounts of chakra.

And in terms of purely size, we already saw it absorb Orochimaru essentially in his tailed beast form, along with some giant boulders.​


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## Ersa (Mar 8, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Unless I'm missing something, that depends on how long A decides to sustain his shroud.


True but I just don't see the chakra needed to amp his chakra shroud (to the point where Karin commented he was at Bijuu levels of chakra) just being comparable to the stuff Nagato did. Perhaps extended usage of the shroud requires comparable chakra to Nagato's highend techniques but we even saw Ei using his shroud on or off (whether to conserve chakra or not I have no idea).


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## Nikushimi (Mar 8, 2015)

Rocky said:


> _*1.)*_ In a war against 100,000 Zetsu.



Itachi, because he always solos.



> *2.)* On an espionage mission.



Itachi, because he has more field experience as a spy.



> *3.)* On an assassination (of a Kage) mission.



Itachi, because assassination is totally his thing.



> *4.)* In a death-match with a Tailed Beast.



Itachi, because Genjutsu GG, Amaterasu GG, or Totsuka Blade GG.



> *5.)* In a death-match with two S-Ranked Shinobi.



Itachi, because he always solos.



> *Bonus:* As your Sensei (presuming you were a n00b Genin).



Itachi, because bad shit always happens to Minato's students. :ignoramus

Plus he could teach me some of his Genjutsu hax and 1337 shuriken skillz.

Plus he would say deep shit all the time and that would be really cool.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 8, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> So what you're saying is because the manga did not deliberately contradict a ridiculous statement made by Karin that her statement is indeed correct regardless of whether Ei hasn't shown anything remotely close to bijuu-level chakra pool feats and regardless of the fact that bijuu have shown to have the most emormous pools in the manga?
> 
> Incredible logic. Dude, I'm certain the burden is on you to PROVE he has it.



Karin, someone who can accurately sense chakra and was specifically chosen by Orochimaru, Sasuke, and Kabuto for this ability, said that A has Bijuu-level chakra.

I don't know why you need more than that, but this is what's actually in the manga.

Worth also pointing out that A is the biological son of the guy who lasted for three days without rest or nourishment while fighting 10,000 ninjas. The same guy who fought the Hachibi--a Bijuu--until they both collapsed from damage and fatigue (at the same time).


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