# Does this chapter add a new dimension to the Shanks vs Mihawk discussion?



## cry77 (Sep 15, 2019)

... Or more precisely, does it support the whole "Mihawk might be WSS but Shanks is the overall fighter" mantra that I personally support. 


Specificly I refer to the differentiation of swords and their powers. Previously all we knew about the Meito swords was that they were physically more durable and cut better, but beyond this little difference (especially with the introduction of haki), the grade of the sword you were wielding seemed little more than a symbolic status with 99.99% of the power/skill coming from the swordsman and not the sword.

Sure, we had "cursed" swords but we still have no idea what that means. 


Enma adds a new dimension to this, as it comes with what appears to be its own unique ability. Zanpakotu style - sucking out (and likely enhancing otherwise what's the point) a persons life-force/haki. (It is clearly not JUST ones spirit as Zoro's arm looked like Crocodile had his way with it).


Which leads to the final point: Mihawks Koktouru Yoru. 

Not saying Mihawk owes his title to the sword (in fact maybe he made it himself and made it powerful), but if it indeed comes with its own ability, it could explain why the WSS is portrayed as a weaker force than another swordsman if he has an inferior sword? 

Not trying to take sides in the debate here, I have kept out of that shit for years, but this was a very interesting chapter.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Mihawk is WSS, Shanks isnt
Mihawk made a black blade, Shanks hasnt (or at the very least Mihawk owns a black blade, which would be stronger than the non-black Gryphon)

even more support of Mihawk > Shanks 


the black blade probably points to Mihawks CoA being better too

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## January (Sep 15, 2019)



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## cry77 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk is WSS, Shanks isnt
> Mihawk made a black blade, Shanks hasnt (or at the very least Mihawk owns a black blade, which would be stronger than the non-black Gryphon)
> 
> even more support of Mihawk > Shanks
> ...


To be honest, I dont see how merely owning a black blade is a point in Mihawk's favor. 

In a fair test of swordsmanship, would it not also be fair to equalize combatants weapons? I mean, you dont give one Racecar Driver a top tuned car and one a buggy, do you? 

Put it differnetly. If you gave Shanks Mihawk's weapon, and Mihawk got Shanks' weapon, who do you think would win?

All else equal, whatever extra power comes from the sword and not the user cannot possible be attributed to Mihawks own power. 


Keep in mind here that im not even thinking Shanks > Mihawk myself, so no reason to turn it into one of those discussions.

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## GrizzlyClaws (Sep 15, 2019)

It'd be interesting to know when exactly Shanks and Mihawk got their current swords, respectively. And when Mihawk made his black, if he did it himself (he probably did).

If they had their legendary duels with their current swords, with Mihawks Yoru being black and Shanks's Gryphon not, it would support Shanks as the "overall fighter", as you put it, as Shanks would have fought with a weaker sword, and would have needed to make up for that disadvantage with something else. Their duels always ended with a draw, despite possible discrepancies in sword qualities.


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## Mariko (Sep 15, 2019)

Shanks could fight on par with Mihawk with a wood stick, or a straw.

Dude's just toying with his BF.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

all I see are new feeble excuses 

and Yoru is part of the Mihawk package either way






Marie said:


> Shanks could fight on par with Mihawk with a wood stick, or a straw.
> 
> Dude's just toying with his BF.


:letgo

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Shanks , Roger , Dark King , Shiki , Whitebeard , Big Mom ... don't have a black blade

Mihawk have ...

so ...

either Mihawk > Roger ... for every same reason

or

the argument is baseless


we already knew Mihawk have the strongest blade ... what? some Mihawk fans learned that this chapter?

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Roger is featless
WB fight with quake punches, bisento is supplementary .. he doesnt saturate it with haki 24/7 like swordsmen do

Mihawk > Shanks, BM ofc (and BM uses her fists & DF a lot + isnt her "sword" a homie)
Prime Ray uncertain, Mihawks CoA _may_ have been better
lol @ Shiki, dude was a regular top-tier from what we know, I dont know why ppl even wank him  .. either way seemed he was a DF user first

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Roger is featless
> WB fight with quake punches, bisento is supplementary .. he doesnt saturate it with haki 24/7 like swordsmen do
> 
> Mihawk > Shanks, BM ofc (and BM uses her fists & DF a lot + isnt her "sword" a homie)
> ...



lol ... dude you do understand the story is keep going on ... 

it's a shame if you hide yourself when Shanks's arc begin 

to imply Mihawk have a CoA in a tier above Roger , Shanks , Dark King ... 

now either you have iron balls or empty brain


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Mihawk has been above Shanks since chapter 49-50





Red Admiral said:


> Shanks's arc


getting off-paneled by Teach

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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 15, 2019)

Roger - Shanks - Luffy : only 3 people to achieve advanced CoC 

Ryuma - Mihawk - Zoro : only 3 people to achieve Black Blades

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk has been above Shanks since chapter 49-50
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I feel good when I see nothing more than bullshit claims and crappy fan fictions ....

good to have you here


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> good to have you here


I know, you take my bait *every* time

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Roger - Shanks - Luffy : only 3 people to achieve advanced CoC
> 
> Ryuma - Mihawk - Zoro : only 3 people to achieve Black Blades



now this is some thing beautiful 

but if Zoro get his power up by end of Wano ... it's just sad ... for everyone ... it means Oda is getting bored form writing one piece



Shiba D. Inu said:


> I know, you take my bait *every* time


lol ... I'm here to entertain myself ... and one of my favorite way is to get other people say some thing stupid just to prove themselves right

make me feel better ... so ... not sure what the F is "your baits" ... cause if I be sure some one is really believe their bullshit I merely ignore that person like did to few brainless people before ... you are still FAR from going there


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

I have a theory for Roger btw IF he was indeed a swordsman like Shanks and Ray ..
he simply died too early and didnt have time to permanently make his sword black

also IIRC it was stated he started his journey at an older age .. some of that time was spent as a rookie too

he probably didnt become a top-tier until later on and only spent some years as a top-tier before dying

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> I have a theory for Roger btw IF he was indeed a swordsman like Shanks and Ray ..
> he simply died too early and didnt have time to permanently make his sword black
> 
> also IIRC it was stated he started his journey at an older age .. some of that time was spent as a rookie too
> ...



you do know Mihawk is younger than Roger right?

I guess by a 10 years gap...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

so ?

he already had titanic duels with *yonkou* Shanks 13-15+ years ago

and it was stated his name was already renowned & legendary during Rogers era (at the end of it) which was 22+ years ago



and he doesnt have any disease (or a missing limb )

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## Red Admiral (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> so ?
> 
> he already had titanic duels with *yonkou* Shanks 13-15+ years ago
> 
> ...



Shanks Vs Mihawk happend before Shanks become a Yonko base on Shanks data book ... so 15~20 years ...

and about so what part

Mihawk being more talented than Roger in anything is a head canon
Mihawk being better than Roger by a big gap is just bullshit


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks Vs Mihawk happend before Shanks become a Yonko


wrong




Red Admiral said:


> Mihawk being more talented than Roger in anything is a head canon
> Mihawk being better than Roger by a big gap is just bullshit


reading comprehension = 0

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## Lawliet (Sep 15, 2019)

cry77 said:


> Put it differnetly. If you gave Shanks Mihawk's weapon, and Mihawk got Shank


Wano Zoro with shuusui vs wano Zoro with enma is Zoro with enma wins. 

What's your point? Swords are like any DF. You can't say WB only wins cause he has the Gura Gura vs a guy with the... Insert DF name.

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## Yuji (Sep 15, 2019)

This all comes down to your point of view on what Shanks is... If you believe Shanks' power is comparable to Big Mom and Kaido's as a yonko, then with Mihawk's current feats and portrayal he has to be beneath them all because he has nowhere near the monster hype Big Mom and Kaido have. 

However, if you believe Shanks is 'just a swordsman' then Mihawk is stronger by default until proven otherwise.

The world's strongest swordsman title is about who would win in a fight, Oda made it clear right at the beginning when he had Kuina crying about not being a man therefore no matter how skilled she was Zoro would eventually beat her.

Therefore *IF* you believe that Shanks is 'just a swordsman', then at this point in the story you have to accept his inferiority. There can't be any other dimensions to this because we don't know anything about Shanks' abilities, we don't know anything about his sword other than it's name, we don't know anything about how he fights. *IF* Shanks is just a swordsman, he has to be weaker than Mihawk until proven otherwise.

I stopped caring about the debate a while ago, but as far as I can see those are your 2 options.


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## cry77 (Sep 15, 2019)

Edward Teach said:


> Wano Zoro with shuusui vs wano Zoro with enma is Zoro with enma wins.
> 
> What's your point? Swords are like any DF. You can't say WB only wins cause he has the Gura Gura vs a guy with the... Insert DF name.


I can though, at least to an extent. 

A sword is an accessory by default. Meaning it can get stolen or otherwise be made inaccesable to the swordsman. If you are counting Yoru as part of Mihawk's strenght, then you must also take the risks of losing it as a weakness.

The risks - and as such the weakness - of losing a DF or a generic part of yourself is lower than that of a weapon. 

So no, swords are not like any DF. They dont fuse and become one with the user. Theoretically, any fuckstick with enough brute power should be capable of physically wielding even a sword like Yoru. 

In fact, a sword is probably better compared to a mode like Nightmare Luffy. A situational powerup based on a third party power (and unlike the DF, this power REMAINS a third party power). Main practical difference is that swordsmen GENERALLY have access to their third party object, so people just start adding it to their naked base power. 

In Zoros own introduction arc, his swords were stolen, and since DR he has lost his swords practially every arc. That is incomparable to the naturalised power-up from a DF or high base stats. 

And if - VERY BIG IF - Mihawk CANNOT defend his title as WSS with a generic sword, but require the specific bonus power of a specific sword, I do not think it unreasonable to make it part of the discussion. 


Fact remains, as of the latest chapter, the odds of Yoru being special even among special swords went up. Not proven of course, but still. 


Current Mihawk (with Gryphon) vs Current Shanks (with Yoru). Who do you think wins? 
Current Mihawk (WIth a generic sword) vs Current Shanks (WIth a generic sword). Who do you think wins?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Shanks is just a swordsman with godlike CoC that is stronger than the "monstrous" BM and can go toe to toe with Kaido


his CoA isnt as good as Mihawks tho 





you cant give Shanks Yoru and Mihawk - Gryphon

they never used them before and cant be expected to instantly master them for serious top lvl fight

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## cry77 (Sep 15, 2019)

Yuji said:


> This all comes down to your point of view on what Shanks is... If you believe Shanks' power is comparable to Big Mom and Kaido's as a yonko, then with Mihawk's current feats and portrayal he has to be beneath them all because he has nowhere near the monster hype Big Mom and Kaido have.
> 
> However, if you believe Shanks is 'just a swordsman' then Mihawk is stronger by default until proven otherwise.
> 
> ...


No those WERE the options. 

This chapter brings a third option: Mihawk and Shanks are practially equal in swordsmanship but Yoru gives Mihawk the edge. 
I dont necessarily subscribe to this myself, but it is an option.



Shiba D. Inu said:


> Shanks is just a swordsman with godlike CoC that is stronger than the "monstrous" BM and can go toe to toe with Kaido
> 
> 
> his CoA isnt as good as Mihawks tho
> ...


Then give them a 2 week training period  

The principle point still stands, and even if your point is legit, logically both parties would be equally handicapped so it's representative. 

In fact, you could just give them generic swords that look and feel the same, just without special properties.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

I personally dont care, WSS Mihawk comes with Yoru, Yoru comes with WSS Mihawk .. inseparable
end of story


but it would be cool af to see their duels when Shanks had 2 arms

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

A fighter's equipment is apart of his strength.

That's all I got to say on the matter

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## Yuji (Sep 15, 2019)

cry77 said:


> No those WERE the options.
> 
> This chapter brings a third option: Mihawk and Shanks are practially equal in swordsmanship but Yoru gives Mihawk the edge.
> I dont necessarily subscribe to this myself, but it is an option



What I mean by only options are the things we can put a logical argument towards not just theorise.

I accept _the possibility_ that Yoru could be stronger than Gryphon, but given that we know nothing about the quality of Gryphon or indeed if Yoru even has any extra qualities we can't put a logical argument on it so there is no extra dimension, just the potential of one.

So I think those still remain your only options until more information is given.


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## cry77 (Sep 15, 2019)

Yuji said:


> What I mean by only options are the things we can put a logical argument towards not just theorise.
> 
> I accept _the possibility_ that Yoru could be stronger than Gryphon, but given that we know nothing about the quality of Gryphon or indeed if Yoru even has any extra qualities we can't put a logical argument on it so there is no extra dimension, just the potential of one.
> 
> So I think those still remain your only options until more information is given.


I get your point, but I think at this point it is logical to assume that Mihawk, as WSS, also has the best sword. At least the best sword he would feasibly have access to. 

We KNOW that Yoru is a 12-grade sword and is ALSO black.  
We dont know anything about Gryphon.

Based on the information we have on OP swords, it is not illogical to start assuming that at least SOME (SOME!!) of Mihawk's WSS credibility comes from his sword.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

cry77 said:


> I get your point, but I think at this point it is logical to assume that Mihawk, as WSS, also has the best sword. At least the best sword he would feasibly have access to.
> 
> We KNOW that Yoru is a 12-grade sword and is ALSO black.
> We dont know anything about Gryphon.
> ...



In the past until recently people just assumed Shanks had some random grade sword nothing special. 

While Mihawk from the start always had the best sword.  Mihawk has always had the sword advantage since the start of one piece. 

Thing we dont know is if Mihawk had his sword when he became the WSS.

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## OVER 9000 (Sep 15, 2019)

Theory you must get the strongest sword aka yoru to be WSS from the past WSS with a fight.


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## Stars (Sep 15, 2019)

You make a great point, OP. I’ll go ahead and take a swing at the other areas of this topic as well though. It’s true that Mihawk’s swordsmanship may be the best in the world. After all, he is specifically known for his swordsmanship, his sword, his eye sight and, presumably, his ability to pair his exceptional vision with Observation for maximum effect. It’s also true that his swordsmanship may not be the best in the world since he _indirectly_ concluded that Shanks’ swordsmanship suffered as a result of losing his arm.

Shanks, on the other hand, is known for being Shanks. His role in Roger’s crew is secondary to who he is. His epithet is “Red Hair,” not “One-Armed” or “Saber” or any other ability-related attribute. I interpret this as evidence that he, like Luffy and Roger, excels at every area of direct-Haki-influenced combat. Shanks is one of Luffy’s ultimate goals and Luffy has not yet exceeded or matched him so it’s safe to assume that Shanks can see the future with Observation, project his Armaments, and perform any other Haki-related techniques introduced between now and the point in the story where we see him in an extended fight.

We’ve seen Mihawk in an extended fight and we’ve seen him use the abilities he’s known for in that fight. We know that he declared his intent to fight at his best and use his skills to determine the difference in strength between himself and Whitebeard before launching an attack. Furthermore, Oda has gone to great lengths to convey that Zoro, the man that’s aiming to exceed Mihawk’s swordsmanship with his own, has not yet achieved the level Mihawk displayed during that fight at Marineford.

The biggest indication of Shanks superiority is his Color of the Conqueror. Oda implied that Shanks has maximized the potential of his Conqueror’s Haki’s power when he said that either he or Rayleigh could’ve taken out all 100,000 fishmen antagonists on Fishman Island (while not putting a limit on it) when, at the time, Luffy maxed out at 50,000. In contrast, as of now, Mihawk doesn’t have Conqueror’s Haki and likely never will. After all, he’s a loner and, instead of blasting the nameless opponents that came at him at Marineford with Conqueror’s, he actually fought them. Since he doesn’t have the Color of the Conqueror, he doesn’t have the potential to be stronger than Shanks (who has likely brought his to it’s limit) even if his swordsmanship does end up being better.

Shanks isn’t interested in titles either. And even if you conclude that Mihawk’s title best translates to World’s Strongest Swordsman, Shanks has never been referred to as purely a swordsman. Shanks has only been referred to as Shanks or “Red Hair” similar to Luffy and Roger; and even Dragon and Rayleigh. And we _know_ that Rayleigh isn’t purely a swordsman since he kicked Kizaru, one of the strongest and most capable fighters in the story, rather than challenge him with his sword upon arrival.

Swords like Shusui and Enma having unique abilities is a factor worth considering as well. Have at it.


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## Lawliet (Sep 15, 2019)

cry77 said:


> A sword is an accessory by default. Meaning it can get stolen or otherwise be made inaccesable to the swordsman. If you are counting Yoru as part of Mihawk's strenght, then you must also take the risks of losing it as a weakness.


The same can be said about devil fruits and sea stones or water. Their power can be taken away from them easily as we've seen multiple times


cry77 said:


> The risks - and as such the weakness - of losing a DF or a generic part of yourself is lower than that of a weapon.


What? How many times have we seen Zoro lose his swords (people losing their weapon in general). Now how many times have we seen a devil fruit user lose their power? 30 times in the last 3 arcs only lol

I'm not gonna sit and argue this since Oda himself doesn't agree with what you all suggest swords are.


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## Steven (Sep 15, 2019)

Nah

The Databook told us crystal clear that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks

Nothing new here

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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 15, 2019)

Mihawk extreme diffs Shanks

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## Venom (Sep 15, 2019)

We have just seen Luffy lose his DF Power to seastone which has handicapped his strength immensely. But you won't see anyone saying that DF isn't part of their own prowess. The same with swords. Mihawk most likely made that blade black by himself. That sword is as much Mihawk now as anything else about him. 

Also, swordsmen tend to use swords that fit their own style of fighting. Zoro will never wield Yoru. Mihawk will never (primarily) wield a Katana. Some swords are one handed. Some are two. Others are bastards. Then there are rapiers. There are so many different and unique sword techniques. You can't just effortlessly use Sword Type A when you have only ever used Sword Type B. Shanks has a saber. And Yoru is a two handed sword. Guess what Shanks is missing.


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk is WSS, Shanks isnt
> Mihawk made a black blade, Shanks hasnt (or at the very least Mihawk owns a black blade, which would be stronger than the non-black Gryphon)
> 
> even more support of Mihawk > Shanks
> ...



So.......about Vista.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> So.......about Vista.


about lord of the coast ...


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> about lord of the coast ...



about concepts that did not exist in the first chapter ...


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> about concepts that did not exists in the first chapter ...

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>



Funny enough his sacifice made no sense since  strange had the time stone and could reverse the damage,  a pre-existing concept to justify the result.

But everything you want to claim about mihawk,  gets shut down by vista,

Until that is addressed, trying to justify superiority for Mihawk and Shanks  goes nowhere.

Unless you think Vista is superior to Shanks.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> gets shut down by vista,


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## Xebec (Sep 15, 2019)

No because Shanks is still stronger


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Funny enough his sacifice made no sense since  strange had the time stone and could reverse the damage,  a pre-existing concept to justify the result.
> 
> But everything you want to claim about mihawk,  gets shut down by vista,
> 
> ...

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Notice nobody can post any vista scenes with Mihawk.

Mihawk fans want to pretend the fight   didn't happen .

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

what is your obsession with vista

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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Notice nobody can post any vista scenes with Mihawk.
> 
> Mihawk fans want to pretend the fight   didn't happen .



So character motivations and personalities don't mean anything? He says he doesn't go all out on people weaker than him, he didn't go all out on Vista, there's no contradiction to his character or anything. 

Plus, Vista needed hype, just like Whitebeard's other commanders did.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 15, 2019)

Vista mid diffs Katakuri

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So character motivations and personalities don't mean anything? He says he doesn't go all out on people weaker than him, he didn't go all out on Vista, there's no contradiction to his character or anything.
> 
> Plus, Vista needed hype, just like Whitebeard's other commanders did.



Hahaha.

The delusion is remarkably strong.  As if the words to *east blue zoro* holds weight to a top yonkou commander.

Mihawk expressed utmost respect to Vista and MIHAWK ended the fight with no signs of superiority.

People are comparing mihawk to yonkou's while yonkou;s are utterly thrashing top commanders while Mihawk couldn't end vista.

It doesn't make sense.

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## Samehadaman (Sep 15, 2019)

I don't get the big deal with Vista clash. If you are WSS there has to be a second, third, fourth, fifth and so on. Mihawk isn't going to fodderize everyone with a sword, some swordsmen are his closest peers, the seconds and thirds and fourths.

Being the strongest boxer doesn't necessarily mean you wipe the floor with everyone else, there's gonna be a top group of boxers where the strongest has to put in serious effort to win.
Mihawk himself acknowledged Vista as a legitimate swordsman, and we know from Mihawk's personality and past encounters he loves to call out weaklings and posers (Don Krieg and baratie Zoro for example), so this was honest praise.

I'm sorry if it's inconvenient to power rankings but Vista is a legit swordfighter, and the fact Mihawk can't stomp him in a second is not that weird or unusual. They are facing in Vista's main style. It's not a hax DF or CoO competition, they are crossing swords and Vista is probably a top 10 in pure swordsmanship in the verse out of alive characters.
Katakuri was also not going to be fodderized in a prediction CoO contest, it's his specialty. Marco wasn't going to be fodderized in a regen competition.

Yonko are getting hype so they trash everyone. But Queen ended up carrying Big Mom in a cart .


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> what is your obsession with vista



It's not an obession.

Vista is the only measurably component because this is the only strong opponent Mihawk has actually fought.

And all this hype for mihawk is unwarranted because he simply did not make vista budge.

You cannot overhype mihawk to hell and not address his one measurably feat.

Big mom completely foddizered queen, yonkou to commander dynamic is remarkably obvious,  and WORSE Vista isn't even the strongest WB commander.

Yet Mihawk is being compared to Yonkou's.  If you can't see that problem i don't know.

The holding back excuse is fine if you want to try and argue it,  but there's NOTHING TO SHOW vista was struggling against him.


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Hahaha.
> 
> The delusion is remarkably strong.  As if the words to *east blue zoro* holds weight to a top yonkou commander.
> 
> ...



Mihawk was thinking about Luffy's ability to gather allies while he was fighting Vista. Vista was flattered that Mihawk even knew his name. And why wouldn't we compare Mihawk to Yonko? Oda himself has shown that Shanks is a swordsman throughout the series, and Mihawk is the strongest of them. They had duels that a guy like Whitebeard hyped up. Whitebeard even showed more respect to Mihawk than Akainu.

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> Mihawk was thinking about Luffy's ability to gather allies while he was fighting Vista. Vista was flattered that Mihawk even knew his name. And why wouldn't we compare Mihawk to Yonko? Oda himself has shown that Shanks is a swordsman throughout the series, and Mihawk is the strongest of them. They had duels that a guy like Whitebeard hyped up. Whitebeard even showed more respect to Mihawk than Akainu.



I fail to see how Mihawk having a thought about luffy gathering allies would matter as if Mihawk was thinking about something so irrelevant he would be distracted the entire fight.

Well Vista never ever had a run in Mihawk, and Vista lives whitebeard's shadow.  Mihawk is his own man. It's just pleasantries but that has no impact on the actual fight.

Akainu didn't have any respect for whitebeard either so that point is irrelevant.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Big mom completely foddizered queen


Queen actually ended up getting 0 visible damage from BM
and he was up on his feet right away when it was necessary

ofc BM > Queen, but she never actually put him down, not even close




Canute87 said:


> but there's NOTHING TO SHOW vista was struggling against him.


of course he didnt, since Mihawk didnt use enough strength for that happen

he literally *only* showed up to MF because they would have probably revoked his Warlord status if he didnt
did the bare minimum ("look guys, Im helping!")
bailed at the first opportunity


you know *Crocodile* also fought Mihawk, yes ?  he didnt do any worse than Vista



@Canute87 I was hoping you were just trolling/baiting

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Samehadaman said:


> I don't get the big deal with Vista clash. If you are WSS there has to be a second, third, fourth, fifth and so on. Mihawk isn't going to fodderize everyone with a sword, some swordsmen are his closest peers, the seconds and thirds and fourths.
> 
> Being the strongest boxer doesn't necessarily mean you wipe the floor with everyone else, there's gonna be a top group of boxers where the strongest has to put in serious effort to win.



Mike Tyson?




> Mihawk himself acknowledged Vista as a legitimate swordsman, and we know from Mihawk's personality and past encounters he loves to call out weaklings and posers (Don Krieg and baratie Zoro for example), so this was honest praise.
> 
> I'm sorry if it's inconvenient to power rankings but Vista is a legit swordfighter, and the fact Mihawk can't stomp him in a second is not that weird or unusual. They are facing in Vista's main style. It's not a hax DF or CoO competition, they are crossing swords and Vista is probably a top 10 in pure swordsmanship in the verse out of alive characters.
> Katakuri was also not going to be fodderized in a prediction CoO contest, it's his specialty. Marco wasn't going to be fodderized in a regen competition.
> ...



No?  then what's the point of all this black sword and powerful COA hype ?

Mihawk presumably has a better quality blade and has better COA yet he can't budge another swordsman in the fight?

That doesn't make sense expecially if it's been used against Shanks.


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## Venom (Sep 15, 2019)

@Canute87
I understand your point and I am not arguing that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but you have to agree that Marineford was a mess at times.

Mihawk was not even capable of taking out Luffy when, even if he is not Yonko Tier, should have been an extremely easy task for him back then. Mihawk was one of the few characters who had a clear shot on Luffy. Nonetheless he still survived that encounter when it should have been a one shot. You could argue that Mihawk held back for Luffy's sake. Even against Vista.

There is no denial that Mihawk was a rival to Shanks. Even in his Yonko years. I don't see how Vista can hold up to that hype even though the feats are not in favor kf that.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Funny enough his sacifice made no sense since  strange had the time stone and could reverse the damage,  a pre-existing concept to justify the result.
> 
> But everything you want to claim about mihawk,  gets shut down by vista,
> 
> ...



Nothing needs to be addressed. 

Mihawk:Sorry Red Hair I won't hold back. 

Luffy then precedes to dodge multiple attacks from Mihawk and take superficial damage from the one attack that he did hit Luffy with. 

The gap between preskip luffy and Mihawk is magnitudes bigger then Mihawk and Vista. 

Vista fighting mihawk off panel for 5 minutes isn't strange. The Databook even hypes up vistas swordskills he is obviously no joke.

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## Stars (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk is WSS, Shanks isnt
> Mihawk made a black blade, Shanks hasnt (or at the very least Mihawk owns a black blade, which would be stronger than the non-black Gryphon)
> 
> even more support of Mihawk > Shanks
> ...



The idea that characters can transform the color of their swords by permanently instilling them with Haki hasn’t been confirmed. And even if it eventually is confirmed, it amounts to nothing more than a choice made by wielders that have reached a certain level. It would seem like a choice that someone who strictly adheres to swordsmanship would make. At the same time, it does not mean that a character that has permanently instilled Haki into a weapon can automatically win a clash with someone that only uses Haki to reinforce weapons when performing direct attacks or defensive measures. Case in point: Vista clashed evenly with Mihawk without black swords. Whitebeard had incredible Armaments Haki, but his bisento wasn’t black. Rayleigh has incredible Armaments Haki, but his sword isn’t black.



Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So character motivations and personalities don't mean anything? He says he doesn't go all out on people weaker than him, *he didn't go all out on Vista*, there's no contradiction to his character or anything.



This is an assumption based on nothing. In fact, Mihawk is the one that wanted to continue the fight at a later date, suggesting that it was worth his time.


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Queen actually ended up getting 0 visible damage from BM
> and he was up on his feet right away when it was necessary



 visible damage?  You expect bones to be sticking out of Queen because he got slammed into the ground?

She man handled the fucker and slammed him into the ground where he reverted back to his normal form   Big mom took him out for a little while with what i can only describe as a basic move.  No power no weapons.

Just pure strength and she took him out,  while in her ditsy self to boot.

He was up on his feet when it was necessary?  I guess if my ass gets knocked out and i wake up minutes later i planned it too.




> of course he didnt, since Mihawk didnt use enough strength for that happen
> 
> he literally *only* showed up to MF because they would have probably revoked his Warlord status if he didnt
> did the bare minimum ("look guys, Im helping!")
> bailed at the first opportunity



Vista was holding back too then.  He had no motivations to fight mihawk on an serious grounds either.

Vista can be twisted just as easily.

Mihawk ended it and Vista agreed.  Neither showed superior.



> you know *Crocodile* also fought Mihawk, yes ?  he didnt do any worse than Vista



He did not fight Mihawk,  mihawk aimed at luffy and crocodile rushed to him and he offset the attack.

Crocodile clased with him once,  one single panel at an attack aimed at luffy.

They did not fight.





> @Canute87 I was hoping you were just trolling/baiting



Why do people always assume that i troll when i'm arguing points where actually feats doesn't justify an ever  inflated hype?

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## Yuji (Sep 15, 2019)

Cyrus the Cactus said:


> So character motivations and personalities don't mean anything? He says he doesn't go all out on people weaker than him, he didn't go all out on Vista



Mihawk stated he would be an ignoramus not to know who Vista was and the vivre cards state that Vista's swordsmanship rivals Mihawk. So it's clear that Mihawk doesn't view Vista as a 'rabbit' as your comment seems to imply. He also said that to Zoro in the context that he was a weak swordsman from the weakest ocean and he still dominated Zoro. There are no similarities here to his situation with Vista.

He glanced at Luffy for one panel, there are other panels of Vista directly fighting Mihawk where the same excuse can't be made


He isn't looking at Luffy here, how does this compare to no devil fruit/haki/memories Big Mom demolishing Queen?

You talk about character personalities but ignore that Mihawk easily crushed several other people during the war but he somehow remembered that he wasn't supposed to do that when it came to Vista... that makes no sense, it's much more logical to think that he didn't dominate Vista like he did to Luffy/Mr.1 because he couldn't defeat him in the same way no haki/memories/fruit Big Mom defeated Queen who should be of a similar power level by portrayal.

If Mihawk is in fact comparable to Shanks, then all it means is that neither of them are comparable to the other Yonko. Shanks being Mihawk level heavily downplays Shanks it does not elevate Mihawk.

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> I never thought dodging mihawk wasn't  impossible, luffy has the flexibility  and was always a nimble person to do it,
> 
> Two years later he managed to dodge a ^ (use bro) with future sight for hours much to his frustration.  So the dodging mihawk feat is legitimate.  The few moments he managed to do so he was doing it for a few minutes.



In the same arc Preskip Smoker casually pinned down Luffy. Mihawk not instantly killing Luffy if he wanted to(which by his own words he was trying) is not legitimate at all. Given the fact that Kaidou casually one shot G4 Luffy I really shouldn't need to go into detail why even if you think Mihawk is only half as strong as kaidou. 



> A fight where there's a clear established superiority ends pretty quickly ,as you saw with the exchange with big mom and queen when she was swinging him like a brassiere strap.



It can end easily if the author wants it To. If he doesn't then it won't. Katakuri had plenty of chances to kill Luffy but he didn't.



> A gap has to be shown if there is one significant, even in a small exchange there should be some,



If both fighters our going all out sure. 

Why should I believe Mihawk was going all out against vista though? I

Franky and Luffy had a extended fight with neither fighter looking inferior and yet low and behold Franky is a fuck ton weaker then base Luffy let alone g2 luffy at the time. 



> Fine, I have no issues that mihawk is superior we all here think that , but what is the point of the black sword, if according to people it signifies clear superiority.  Why would a swordsman with a better quality blade and COA not end a swordsman that is inferior in that regard?



Because Oda didn't want him to. Same reason why DD didn't fodderize Croc, and luffys still alive. 



> How can mihawk beat shanks but not dust vista ?  You can't not see the issue.  There's a clear established  gap between the yonkou and commander dynamic.



Its only a issue if I was to believe Mihawk was going all out which based on his hype and the type of character he is I have little reason to believe he was.


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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Venom said:


> @Canute87
> I understand your point and I am not arguing that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but you have to agree that Marineford was a mess at times.
> 
> Mihawk was not even capable of taking out Luffy when, even if he is not Yonko Tier, should have been an extremely easy task for him back then. Mihawk was one of the few characters who had a clear shot on Luffy. Nonetheless he still survived that encounter when it should have been a one shot. You could argue that Mihawk held back for Luffy's sake. Even against Vista.
> ...



Marineford was never a mess once strong opponents faced each other.

Every single argument for Mihawk can apply for vista.

Strength can't be argued because neither was shown superior, Motivation is what people try to argue with and it still fails.

Because for every  motivation argument people try to bring for Mihawk as justification for his performance the same can be applied for vista.

And the reasoning is so frustrating.

"Mihawk didn't want to be at marineford, so his performance was up to par"

News fucking flash, nobody WANTED to be at marineford.

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## Freechoice (Sep 15, 2019)

Wait

Zoro has a black blade

Shanks doesn't...

Does that mean Zoro>Shanks ?


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

Freechoice said:


> Wait
> 
> Zoro has a black blade
> 
> ...



Comparing the Grandmaster to a one arm ginger. 

What's to think about

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## Stars (Sep 15, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> In the same arc Preskip Smoker casually pinned down Luffy. Mihawk not instantly killing Luffy if he wanted to(which by his own words he was trying) is not legitimate at all. uri had plenty of chances to kill Luffy but he didn't.



False equivalency. Luffy was only trying to escape from Mihawk. He never attacked Mihawk so Mihawk wasn’t given an opportunity to exploit an opening the same way Smoker did in order to land his attack. And Luffy would’ve had his hands cut off if he _did_ end up attacking Mihawk.

The rest of your post is just more false equivalencies.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

Stars said:


> False equivalency. Luffy was only trying to escape from Mihawk. He never attacked Mihawk so Mihawk wasn’t given an opportunity to exploit an opening the same way Smoker did in order to land his attack. And Luffy would’ve had his hands cut off if he _did_ end up attacking Mihawk.
> 
> The rest of your post is just more false equivalencies.



So now Mihawk needs a opening to hit preskip Luffy  

Not sure if your trolling or not.

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> In the same arc Preskip Smoker casually pinned down Luffy. Mihawk not instantly killing Luffy if he wanted to(which by his own words he was trying) is not legitimate at all. Given the fact that Kaidou casually one shot G4 Luffy I really shouldn't need to go into detail why even if you think Mihawk is only half as strong as kaidou.


Smoker had seastone.

Mihawk has a far more deadlier weapon so him one shotting luffy with a high quality blade is just obvious.

Also  Gear 4 luffy is a big fucking target, his mobility is severly limited to the point where he can't even walk.

He was dodging katakuri in base when he had his full mobility.



> It can end easily if the author wants it To. If he doesn't then it won't. Katakuri had plenty of chances to kill Luffy but he didn't.


Whatever the author wants doesn't disprove what actually happened. Kaktakuri chances to kill luffy would naturally increase as luffy gets more and more fatigued from dodging for so long.  But he frustrated katakuri so he wanted to take him out and he didn't.
So luffy dodging katakuri isn't a plot device.

At no point did katakuri regret not trying to take him out suggesting any dicking around, there was none,  well apart from the meriana incident.




> Why should I believe Mihawk was going all out against vista though?



I don't believe Mihawk was going all out.

Once again let me highlight my entire issue.

Why should i believe Vista was going all out? 



> Franky and Luffy had a extended fight with neither fighter looking inferior and yet low and behold *Franky is a fuck ton weaker then base Luffy* let alone g2 luffy at the time.


I don't share the same sentiment , not  the time he fought franky. Nobody fuck tonne weaker than luffy is going to hold up against base luffy as franky did.  Also there was no emotion like there was with ussop where luffy truly held back.  Neither strength nor motivation held back luffy.

Luffy would have to fight smart to beat franky *comfortably * i.e hitting him in his back as that's where his weakness was.  But attacking a weakness is simply smart fighting, not superiority.

Off course that has changed dramatically but it's naturally progression.  Buggy used to give luffy issues and .......that was only 2 + years ago. 



> Because Oda didn't want him to. Same reason why DD didn't fodderize Croc, and luffys still alive.



The motivation argument works here because we have clear intentions why flamingo didn't just fuck croc then and there.
Also at no point did flamingo's demeanor changed, so he was never in any danger.




> Its only a issue if I was to believe Mihawk was going all out which based on his hype and the type of character he is I have little reason to believe he was.


No strong character went all out in marineford, but you don't need to go all out to show differences.  Especially if they are significant.


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## Stars (Sep 15, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> So now Mihawk needs a opening to hit preskip Luffy
> 
> Not sure if your trolling or not.



The proof is on the pages. Interpret it how you wish, but a response with no substance isn’t a valid counterargument.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 15, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Smoker had seastone.



Irrelevant.

The point is Smoker was quick enough to easily slam his jutte on luffys throat?

So what outside of plot or mihawks own weakness stops Mihawks from doing the same with his sword?



> Also  Gear 4 luffy is a big fucking target, his mobility is severly limited to the point where he can't even walk.



G4 luffy is less mobile but he is also a fuck ton faster which more then makes up for him being less flexible and smaller.



> He was dodging katakuri in base when he had his full mobility.



Which was plot BS.




> Whatever the author wants doesn't disprove what actually happened. Kaktakuri chances to kill luffy would naturally increase as luffy gets more and more fatigued from dodging for so long.  But he frustrated katakuri so he wanted to take him out and he didn't.
> So luffy dodging katakuri isn't a plot device.



It is a plot device when Katakuri casually dodges though snakeman luffys black mamba(his fastest attack) and kicks Luffy in the face but fails for 8 hours to effectively grab non-g4 luffy and finish him off.



> At no point did katakuri regret not trying to take him out suggesting any dicking around, there was none,  well apart from the meriana incident.



Katakuri is a prideful man of course he wouldn't admit to it.



> I don't believe Mihawk was going all out.



Going all out was a bad choice of words. So let me rephrase.

We don't know what percentage of power Mihawk was using as he hasent gone all out yet. We have no reference for a max output Mihawk so using his performance against vista or Luffy or anyone for that matter is only relevant if you believe Mihawk was using the majority of his power in those encounters.



> Why should i believe Vista was going all out?



I dont think he was.

Here is the very simple thing though.

Mihawks hype>>>>>>>>>vistas. That's all there is to it. Mihawks ceiling is a lot higher then vistas based on hype. So the fact that Mihawk wasn't using a majority of his strength is more relevant. Or to put it in another terms Mihawk is capable of holding back a lot more strength then vista is. Based on hype anyway.





> i don't share the same sentiment , not  the time he fought franky. Nobody fuck tonne weaker than luffy is going to hold up against base luffy as franky did.  Also there was no emotion like there was with ussop where luffy truly held back.  Neither strength nor motivation held back luffy.
> 
> Luffy would have to fight smart to beat franky *comfortably * i.e hitting him in his back as that's where his weakness was.  But attacking a weakness is simply smart fighting, not superiority.



Base Lucci rocked frankys shit with a casual jab to the chest. Base Luffy(albeit losing) was capable of fighting the same lucci.

Base Lucci>Base Luffy>>>>>Franky.





> The motivation argument works here because we have clear intentions why flamingo didn't just fuck croc then and there.
> Also at no point did flamingo's demeanor changed, so he was never in any danger.



Demeanors not really that important although I do believe it is noteworthy. If Mihawk cared about vista he would of made a attempt to fight him later in the war but he made no attempt to do so. Mihawk uses the neccessary strength needed to deal with his opponent. Which is why Luffy didn't instantly get cut in half, why mr.1 was able to block his attack, why croc didn't get insta one shot for getting in his way, and why vista wasn't even heavy breathing let alone hurt after fighting with the WSS.





> No strong character went all out in marineford, but you don't need to go all out to show differences.  Especially if they are significant.



True but you do if you want to quickly. Vista vs Mihawk was off panel. Aokiji vs jozu was also off panel and up until aokiji got a free shot to hit him with his strongest attack that we know of jozu was perfectly fine. Does that mean Jozu is aokiji level. That aokiji isn't yonkou level. Nah it just means aokiji and jozu fought for a little bit and nothing significant came of it.

Cant use vista vs Mihawk as a negative to Mihawk unless you can prove he was using a certain level of power and that X or Y charcter under the same circumstances would do better at the same level of power. With the limited feats from most top tiers specifically Mihawk that's just not possible to do



Stars said:


> The proof is on the pages. Interpret it how you wish, but a response with no substance isn’t a valid counterargument.



Proof of what exactly? 

My response was not a counterargument just ridicule of the notion your post put forth

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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 15, 2019)

_LMAO,

People calling Shanks > Mihawk...

I dunno...

Shanks lost his arm to an East Blue Sea King... and according to Mihawk, the East Blue is the weakest of the 4 seas, meaning Shanks got his arm yanked by the weakest of all sea kings in the 4 seas. 


_

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## Canute87 (Sep 15, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Irrelevant.
> 
> The point is Smoker was quick enough to easily slam his jutte on luffys throat?



Logia intangibility can't be irrelevant if luffy can't hurt him. 

Luffy was right in his g2 onslaught and smoker launched after him.

Against mihawk luffy was always on the defensive, the one time luffy tried to attack, we all  remember than scene.



> G4 luffy is less mobile but he is also a fuck ton faster which more then makes up for him* being less flexible and smaller.*


Not if you're actively  focused on dodging, Gear 4 cannot even stay still.  



> It is a plot device when Katakuri casually dodges though snakeman luffys black mamba(his fastest attack) and kicks Luffy in the face but fails for 8 hours to effectively grab non-g4 luffy and finish him off.



He maneuvered through the snakeman and got in a hit PROVING, WITHOUT A DOUBT, the difference between active engagement and actively dodging. Active engagement provides openings for counter attacks.

Gear 4 is fast but it doesn't have limited plane or movement. When a person can only move left or right it's completely different than being able to bend your neck and any party of your body in 3 dimensional space.

Your torso cannot twist to the side while still maintaining your upperbody. 



> Katakuri is a prideful man of course he wouldn't admit to it.


He shot himself in the gut to even it out the fight, he's not going to admit to not fucking around? I don't believe that.  And he can just say this in his mind.




> Going all out was a bad choice of words. So let me rephrase.
> 
> We don't know what percentage of power Mihawk was using as he hasent gone all out yet. We have no reference for a max output Mihawk so using his performance against vista or Luffy or anyone for that matter is only relevant if you believe Mihawk was using the majority of his power in those encounters.



And we don't know what percentage vista was using either.  Had vista showed signs of small fatigue or a little huff,  even a serious demeanor i would have concluded years ago to mihawk's superiority, and mihawk holding back....which he was would be even more powerful proof.





> I dont think he was.
> 
> Here is the very simple thing though.
> 
> Mihawks hype>>>>>>>>>vistas. That's all there is to it. Mihawks ceiling is a lot higher then vistas based on hype. So the fact that Mihawk wasn't using a majority of his strength is more relevant. Or to put it in another terms Mihawk is capable of holding back a lot more strength then vista is. Based on hype anyway.




His hype is *increasing *without feats to back it up.  So something is very wrong.  The yonkou via feats have showed where they stand against commanders yet mihawk is being propelled into their class yet unable to budge vista. That will always be my problem until mihawk fights someone else worth a shit.




> Base Lucci rocked frankys shit with a casual jab to the chest. Base Luffy(albeit losing) was capable of fighting the same lucci.
> 
> Base Lucci>Base Luffy>>>>>Franky.


.

Blunt force immunity helps luffy's case a lot. Lucci was without a doubt  significantly superior to base luffy.  

Also remember this isn't the same luffy that fought franky.




> Demeanors not really that important although I do believe it is noteworthy. If Mihawk cared about vista he would of made a attempt to fight him later in the war but he made no attempt to do so. Mihawk uses the neccessary strength needed to deal with his opponent. Which is why Luffy didn't instantly get cut in half, why mr.1 was able to block his attack, why croc didn't get insta one shot for getting in his way, and why vista wasn't even heavy breathing let alone hurt after fighting with the WSS.



Mr 1.  one only blocked the flying slash, he got instantly taken out once mihawk got close on croc only hit away his sword aimed for luffy. One thing all those incidents had in common it NEVER occured for longer than a single panel.

Vista from start to finish not only held his own, but came out unscathed, still smiling. 

To believe that mihawk only used enough strength to fight vista long enough for him to cal it quits is a long stretch. 

ESPECIALLY is black bladed weapons are the be all to end all over haki infused. If it doesn't then the hype isn't justified.




> True but you do if you want to quickly. Vista vs Mihawk was off panel. Aokiji vs jozu was also off panel and up until aokiji got a free shot to hit him with his strongest attack that we know of jozu was perfectly fine. Does that mean Jozu is aokiji level. That aokiji isn't yonkou level. Nah it just means aokiji and jozu fought for a little bit and nothing significant came of it.



Well josu did lose. 



> Cant use vista vs Mihawk as a negative to Mihawk unless you can prove he was using a certain level of power and that X or Y charcter under the same circumstances would do better at the same level of power. With the limited feats from most top tiers specifically Mihawk that's just not possible to do



Yet Mihawk's hype is increasing without good merit. People think he can actually beat kaidou now i mean it's getting out of hand.

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## Stars (Sep 15, 2019)

Big Baller Brand said:


> _LMAO,
> 
> People calling Shanks > Mihawk...
> 
> ...



From the author’s perspective and reflecting on the type of story he intended to write along with the need to establish the story with a strong foundation to spark interest, accrue a solid fan base, and secure the opportunity to continue writing weekly in Jump, it’s clear why Oda chose to do this. It turned out to be a great move on his part.

From the reader’s in-story perspective, Shanks may have only had a split-second or less to make a decision and was only focused on rescuing Luffy and making sure he was unharmed, neglecting any other thoughts or goals. It could’ve been due to adrenaline and tunnel vision. _That’s_ just how much Luffy means to him. Either way, we know now that he’s far better than that scene _and_ it was 12 years ago in-story.


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## Stars (Sep 16, 2019)

Yuji said:


> If Mihawk is in fact comparable to Shanks, then all it means is that neither of them are comparable to the other Yonko. Shanks being Mihawk level heavily downplays Shanks it does not elevate Mihawk.



Slipped through the cracks. Well said.

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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

Mihawk > every swordsmen
Shanks > every swordsmen not named Mihawk


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Mihawk > every swordsmen
> Shanks > every swordsmen not named Mihawk and Zoro



Fixed that for you


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 16, 2019)

Stars said:


> From the author’s perspective and reflecting on the type of story he intended to write along with the need to establish the story with a strong foundation to spark interest, accrue a solid fan base, and secure the opportunity to continue writing weekly in Jump, it’s clear why Oda chose to do this. It turned out to be a great move on his part.
> 
> From the reader’s in-story perspective, Shanks may have only had a split-second or less to make a decision and was only focused on rescuing Luffy and making sure he was unharmed, neglecting any other thoughts or goals. It could’ve been due to adrenaline and tunnel vision. _That’s_ just how much Luffy means to him. Either way, we know now that he’s far better than that scene _and_ it was 12 years ago in-story.



_1st part of your post is irrelavant...

Now onto your second paragraph...
We know Shanks is a Haki master. He was on Roger's ship with 3 guys that have King's Haki (Roger, Ray, and Oden) and obviously knows the other two because he blocked Akainu's attack on Coby...

Does that mean Shank's is an idiot? Well, since he is a Haki master, he should have had that forsight with his CoO to know that the Bandit was going to use a smokebomb and kidnap Luffy, AND since he visited Fuusha village all the time, he sould know that there lurks a seaking. If that wasn't enough he should have known with CoO that the sea monster would be around the vacinity.

(And to answer my question, he kinda is an idiot, he has 3 permanent scars on his left eye due to a *LOW TIER Blackbeard*, and he got his arm cut off by a *LOW TIER SEAKING*  And you stated that he's better now than he was before. No not really, he was on an Island partying and Mihawk commented on why he was on this Island being carefree, which means he doesn't really have any regard....) 

Of course, one could say, "Well the author didn't flesh all this out and we only know about Haki years later..." Well, he did use King's Haki to scare off the Sea King, and Oda is notorious for introducing things really early in the story to have it revealed hundreds of chapters later... so I wouldn't put any stock into that because he already planned this all out in the first place.

There is one reason I put Mihawk a hair above Shanks...

And it's this. Mihawk throughout the story up until now is very cautious. He analyzes things carefully and doesn't waste his moves, or energy. He is very compact and conservative on what he does and isn't brash. (This is why he put off the fight with Vista and didn't fight Shanks when he came to Marineford) Shanks on the other hand is like the red headed Luffy. He'll jump into pretty much anything and doesn't give a flying fuck on what he does. This is how he got the scar from Blackbeard, and this is how he lost his arm. (Mihawk in some sense displays some Itachi-ish characteristics)

These two had duels that Whitebeard mentioned, but it was never stated that they were to the death (Unless they were....) and both of them had no visible scars from each other unlike Akainu vs Aokiji, which means they were more "friendly" types of duels...

In a battle to the death I pick Mihawk because in a long drawn out 10 day battle, he would seem to have more energy in the tank as mentioned above. 
_


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## Sayonara (Sep 16, 2019)

Their legendary duels took place when Shanks was already a yonkou and we know they were serious when Oda even had WB comment on them.

But since these duels we have had Mihawk entertaining Vista and Shanks losing an arm to a seaking.

Oda really doesnt help make it clear. On paper you would think after losing an arm he became weaker. But clearly there's more going on , Shanks is our main characters benchmark.

The black blade thing doesn't really change too much for me. It could just be case where Mihawk ( eventually Zoro) and Ryuuma reached pinnacle of CoA , while Shanks made use of beastly CoC.


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Even if Mihawk loses Yoru and uses some trash tier sword I doubt that he will become trash tier. Weaker yes,but not seriously weaker. Zoro one shotted that corrupted Wano official and sliced his house without his swords,he just used harakiri knife.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 16, 2019)

Sayonara said:


> Their legendary duels took place when Shanks was already a yonkou and we know they were serious when Oda even had WB comment on them.
> 
> But since these duels we have had Mihawk entertaining Vista and Shanks losing an arm to a seaking.
> 
> ...


Please indicate where it was confirmed that their duels took place when Shanks was a Yonkou?


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## Richard Lionheart (Sep 16, 2019)

Mihawk being stronger than Kaido or BM is quite laughable for now. If he cant one shot G4 Luffy or Vista/Jozu, he is either weaker than the average Yonko or not trying, which we cant prove.
If Shanks is weaker than Mihawk, then he is weaker than the other Yonko as well. Once Mihawk gets his EOS fight we will know for sure how strong he is.


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## Kamina. (Sep 16, 2019)

I can't wait till next chapter and we see Mr Mihawk facing off against 2 admirals and the new weapon

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dunno (Sep 16, 2019)

cry77 said:


> I can though, at least to an extent.
> 
> A sword is an accessory by default. Meaning it can get stolen or otherwise be made inaccesable to the swordsman. If you are counting Yoru as part of Mihawk's strenght, then you must also take the risks of losing it as a weakness.
> 
> ...


A sword isn't just an accessory. It's an accessory that the swordsman himself has given it's power. It's very likely that Mihawk has blackened his blade himself, which means that it's his own power. If Mihawk has mastered CoA to the degree that he can blacken swords permanently (making it the strongest sword in the world to boot) and Shanks hasn't, then that speaks about Mihawk himself, and not about an external power.



Canute87 said:


> It's not an obession.
> 
> Vista is the only measurably component because this is the only strong opponent Mihawk has actually fought.
> 
> ...


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## shisuiuchiha5 (Sep 16, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Please indicate where it was confirmed that their duels took place when Shanks was a Yonkou?



Their battles were described as legendary by whiteboard himself,their battle would not have been described as legendary if they were not yonko leveled.

Also whitebeard stated that how everybody was surprised that a person like shanks came back from east blue without an arm,which already suggests that shanks was a yonko


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Malos said:


> No because Shanks is still stronger


Come back when shanks can do this

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (Sep 16, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Please indicate where it was confirmed that their duels took place when Shanks was a Yonkou?




I assume that the translation in the vivre card thread is correct, which means that Shanks was a Yonkou when he lost his arm. And we know that Mihawk stopped duelling Shanks when he lost his arm, which means that Shanks was a Yonkou when he stopped dueling Mihawk.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Asaya7 (Sep 16, 2019)

Mihawk >= Shanks.

/Thread


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## cry77 (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Come back when shanks can do this


To be fair, there is a decent chance Current Zoro with Enma can do that.... Dont see anyone yonkou level to not being capable of replicating that feat. 

Cutting ice - even a lot of it  - isnt really that impressive. Cutting Pica was on par with that feat

Kaido and WB might just explode it, but it gets the job done still..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

cry77 said:


> Cutting ice - even a lot of it  - isnt really that impressive. Cutting Pica was on par with that feat


Wrong,this ice was connected with Aokiji´s power

Meanwhile Zorro cutting just stones against pica

I dont see how BM or Kaido can cutting/destroying such a large amount of Aokiji´s ice with a no-name attack


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## Asaya7 (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Wrong,this ice was connected with Aokiji´s power
> 
> Meanwhile Zorro cutting just stones against pica
> 
> I dont see how BM or Kaido can cutting/destroying such a large amount of Aokiji´s ice with a no-name attack


exactly. the size difference is immense.


and big moms mighty nation was underwhelming compared to mihawks slash.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cyrus the Cactus (Sep 16, 2019)

Richard Lionheart said:


> Mihawk being stronger than Kaido or BM is quite laughable for now. If he cant one shot G4 Luffy or Vista/Jozu, he is either weaker than the average Yonko or not trying, which we cant prove.
> If Shanks is weaker than Mihawk, then he is weaker than the other Yonko as well. Once Mihawk gets his EOS fight we will know for sure how strong he is.



Why does Mihawk being stronger than Shanks lower Shanks' standing?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Sep 16, 2019)

Current Zoro might or might be able not to replicate Mihawks iceberg feat. But anyway current Zoro is at least ready to replicate Oden's feat and seriously wound Kaido so why not?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Sep 16, 2019)

Dunno said:


> A sword isn't just an accessory. It's an accessory that the swordsman himself has given it's power. It's very likely that Mihawk has blackened his blade himself, which means that it's his own power. If Mihawk has mastered CoA to the degree that he can blacken swords permanently (making it the strongest sword in the world to boot) and Shanks hasn't, then that speaks about Mihawk himself, and not about an external power.



That scene you showcased is no different than Luffy attacking dragon kaidou.

Queen did not knock out Big Mom.

And this does not discredit the scene that happened before when he got completely manhandled.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

big mom didnt knock out Queen

Reactions: Like 1


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## Canute87 (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> big mom didnt knock out Queen



Oh i guess you're right. 

I guess him getting knocked out from that would be too pathetic for him.

She gave queen something similar to the loki treatment. 

fact of the matter is that she completely overwhelmed queen on her pure physical abilities alone, no powers no weapons.


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## cry77 (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> Wrong,this ice was connected with Aokiji´s power
> 
> Meanwhile Zorro cutting just stones against pica
> 
> I dont see how BM or Kaido can cutting/destroying such a large amount of Aokiji´s ice with a no-name attack


WHile I do not doubt that Aokiji can increase the stats of his ice, there is no reason to think he put through more effort than what was needed to keep the tsunami in check. 

And the size of Pica is comparable if not larger than the Ice.

And even if it isnt, Zoro has grown since then and now he has a new sword, so I do not think it is impossible for Zoro to replicate that feat (keep in mind it was a casual attack from Mihawk), and Shanks could logically do it no problem. 

As for BM and Kaido, they might not cut it horizontally, but they could crush it just like WB did with his quakes.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Blood lusted Big Moms named attack  

Mihawks no named sword swing aimed at fodder.

Reactions: Like 3


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## TheOmega (Sep 16, 2019)

Shanks is strong enough to be a Yonko WITHOUT a black blade. Think about it. Had duels with the WSS and DOESN'T have a black blade. This can only serve to FURTHER SUPPORT that Shanks DOES NOT RELY SOLELY ON SWORDSMANSHIP for his overall performance.

I always seen it like the Jin and Mugen dynamic from Samurai Champloo. One has mastery of technique and fundamentals while the other has brute physical stats and a highly unorthodox ability to improvise.

If Mihawk and Shanks both fought without their swords, Mihawk will most likely be more disadvantaged than Shanks would.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Lawliet (Sep 16, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> Notice nobody can post any vista scenes with Mihawk.
> 
> Mihawk fans want to pretend the fight   didn't happen .


LOL. No. 

We know the fight happened. We don't really care. A going all out Mihawk would beat all the whitebeard commanders combined LOL


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Please indicate where it was confirmed that their duels took place when Shanks was a Yonkou?


 VC db


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## Canute87 (Sep 16, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Please indicate where it was confirmed that their duels took place when Shanks was a Yonkou?



Mihawk said he wasn't interested in challenging a one armed man.

Shanks was a yonkou for some strange reason back in chapter 1 and he lost his arm suggesting they were still active rivals.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Imagine comparing an attack that cuts to an attack that visibly pulverized anything it touched into nothing. Mighty Nation is more impressive than cutting some fucking ice in half. Jozu deflected Mihawks slash but it’s questionable if he would get in the way of Ikoku. The attacks do two different things.

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Imagine comparing an attack that cuts to an attack that visibly pulverized anything it touched into nothing. Mighty Nation is more impressive than cutting some fucking ice in half. Jozu deflected Mihawks slash but it’s questionable if he would get in the way of Ikoku. The attacks do two different things.


 Jozu tanks both. Unless they aimed it at him with the breath of diamond


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

> diamond Jozu cant take Napoleon hits that Jinbeis arm tanked

Reactions: Like 1


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## Neo Arcadia (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks , Roger , Dark King , Shiki , Whitebeard , Big Mom ... don't have a black blade
> 
> Mihawk have ...
> 
> ...


Most of the people on that list are multi-skill fighters, possessing either devil fruits or being seen with pistols too. Shanks has only ever used a sword.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Jozu tanks both. Unless they aimed it at him with the breath of diamond


Does that shit actually exist? Choosing to cut diamond but say not flesh. My understanding is that you can coat your blade with flow haki and the flow haki prevents it from cutting things. If you have a different interpretation please share.


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Imagine comparing an attack that cuts to an attack that visibly pulverized anything it touched into nothing. Mighty Nation is more impressive than cutting some fucking ice in half. Jozu deflected Mihawks slash but it’s questionable if he would get in the way of Ikoku. The attacks do two different things.


Yet BM was not able to kill King Baum

Also Brook blitzed her

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Does that shit actually exist? Choosing to cut diamond but say not flesh. My understanding is that you can coat your blade with flow haki and the flow haki prevents it from cutting things. If you have a different interpretation please share.


 Daz Bones implied it existed back in alabasta

It's is the same reason Daz Bones took no damage from Mihawk's air slash

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

in EoS Mihawk and Zoro will be cutting apart reality with _Breath of Spacetime_

Reactions: Like 5


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Neo Arcadia said:


> Most of the people on that list are multi-skill fighters, possessing either devil fruits or being seen with pistols too. Shanks has only ever used a sword.



and Shanks is not a multi-skill fighter? 

wow ... have you seen him fighting? I love to see the panels


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Blood lusted Big Moms named attack
> 
> Mihawks no named sword swing aimed at fodder.



wait I got some thing better

Big Mom with no memory , Haki , DF or weapon 




while Mihawk

Reactions: Like 1


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## maupp (Sep 16, 2019)

Canute87 said:


> So.......about Vista.


So about that sea king 



Red Admiral said:


> wait I got some thing better
> 
> Big Mom with no memory , Haki , DF or weapon
> 
> ...


Where are the panels of Shanks being done in by sea king-kun

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Jozu tanks both. Unless they aimed it at him with the breath of diamond



OK ... I'm gonna wash this "breath of diamond" bull crap one as for all

answer me one thing

when Mihawk attacked Whitebeard

*did he aimed for flash *
or
*did he aimed for Iron*


if he aimed for flash ... white beard just use his weapon and attack was meaningless
if he aimed for iron ... whitebeard could just do nothing and attack was meaningless


how in the FUCK NAME Mihawk can choose ??????

*and don't you fucking dare say " well Mihawk can use FS CoO"

well in that fucking case Mihawk saw Jozu coming and attack was aimed for him to begin with*

you people undersatnd if this was the case ... Mihawk chance for wining a fight was stupidly low ... since fighting while don't know what to aim for is just making at BEST CASE 50% of Mihawk's attack meaningless



breath attacks are for top class attacks ... not every swing of sword

unless




Luffy could just stay where he was and Mihawk attack won't effect him

cause with your logic he was aiming for breath of ice not flash


and how the fuck Mihawk did this??




cutting Iron and flash?!! at same time ??!! with your logic it can't happen cause you either aim for flash or or iron



this is a retarded argument ... but again ... so as anything else coming form an irreverent swordsman who have no value for plot

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

maupp said:


> So about that sea king
> 
> 
> Where are the panels of Shanks being done in by sea king-kun



I'm really hoping that Mihawk fans buldi a temple for that sea king

cause when ever they are pin down and have nothing to said and are shitless

they can only run away by help of you god sea king

don't worry in time Shanks's look is enough to make your false god go away and make him his bitch

Reactions: Like 1


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## Neo Arcadia (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> and Shanks is not a multi-skill fighter?
> 
> wow ... have you seen him fighting? I love to see the panels


Well he doesn't have a DF, we've never seen him wield anything other than a sword, and he had legendary duels against Mihawk.
Do you think Shanks going to go full Sanji or unleash Kamehakiha beams from his arm stump?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Neo Arcadia said:


> Well he doesn't have a DF, we've never seen him wield anything other than a sword, and he had legendary duels against Mihawk.
> Do you think Shanks going to go full Sanji or unleash Kamehakiha beams from his arm stump?



Shanks never had a single offensive move in one piece ... talk about his fight style when we saw shit

his CoC and his CoA are as good as any DF for him


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> his CoC and his CoA are as good as any DF for him


yeah 
and he is still not WSS or WSM despite that CoC
and his CoA hasnt made him a black blade

Reactions: Like 1


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## maupp (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> wait I got some thing better
> 
> Big Mom with no memory , Haki , DF or weapon
> 
> ...


Where are the panels of Shanks being done in by sea king-kun 


Red Admiral said:


> I'm really hoping that Mihawk fans buldi a temple for that sea king
> 
> cause when ever they are pin down and have nothing to said and are shitless
> 
> ...


I take it you don't like Sea king-chan by your reaction Kappa

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I'm really hoping that Mihawk fans buldi a temple for that sea king


we have

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> OK ... I'm gonna wash this "breath of diamond" bull crap one as for all
> 
> answer me one thing
> 
> ...


 lots of words. 

iron is not a breath, steel is. Daz Bones tells us diamond is. Easy asf


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Mihawk>Happy>Fish>Shanks

/Thread


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> lots of words.
> 
> iron is not a breath, steel is. Daz Bones tells us diamond is. Easy asf



wtf? do we have a breath police? 

so if I change the word "iron" to "steel"  

what then?

you people claim that attack was aimed for flash so that's why diamond blocked it

so how the fuck Mihawk cut Zoro body and his steel blade at the same time?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

maupp said:


> Where are the panels of Shanks being done in by sea king-kun
> 
> I take it you don't like Sea king-chan by your reaction Kappa


sea king is cool ... chickens? not much


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> wait I got some thing better
> 
> Big Mom with no memory , Haki , DF or weapon
> 
> ...



Yes Vista>Queen

We know this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lawliet (Sep 16, 2019)

Wtf is this shit I'm reading here. 

Mihawk = Shanks. End of discussion

Reactions: Like 3


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes Vista>Queen
> 
> We know this



this is not Vista > Queen 

this is Vista >>>> Queen 

but I assume Zoro base wank Vista to top tier if they have to


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Yes Vista>Queen


this is unironically true

WB top commanders take a steaming pile down SCs and Calamities throats  .. (except Ace)





Red Admiral said:


> Vista to top tier

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)



Reactions: Like 6


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## Lawliet (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> No


Yes. You're just too... dull? to see it.


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>



This duo >>> Kaido / BM 

Wano would only need 1 act if they were there

Reactions: Like 3


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## charles101 (Sep 16, 2019)

Without reading, let me guess:

Mihawk fans: "Mihawk could turn his sword into black one, Shanks couldn't. Mihawk is way better swordsman, so he's way stronger"

Shanks fans: "Shanks don't even need black blade to be at this level. If he had fancy weapon like Mihawk does, he'd literally cut him in half."


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

charles101 said:


> Without reading, let me guess:
> 
> Mihawk fans: "Mihawk could turn his sword into black one, Shanks couldn't. Mihawk is way better swordsman, so he's way stronger"
> 
> Shanks fans: "Shanks don't even need black blade to be at this level. If he had fancy weapon like Mihawk does, he'd literally cut him in half."


something something Vista something sea king

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

charles101 said:


> Without reading, let me guess:
> 
> Mihawk fans: "Mihawk could turn his sword into black one, Shanks couldn't. Mihawk is way better swordsman, so he's way stronger"
> 
> Shanks fans: "Shanks don't even need black blade to be at this level. If he had fancy weapon like Mihawk does, he'd literally cut him in half."


Iceberg-kun


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## Neo Arcadia (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> we have


All hail Lor D. of the Coast.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

Im-sama is Lor D. Coasts puppet 


he bit off the arm to set the events in motion


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## Kishido (Sep 16, 2019)

I love you OL. You never disappoint 

And to answer the topic

This chapter hasn't even given me a reason to talk about Shanks and Mihawk LOL

Reactions: Like 2


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## Jake CENA (Sep 16, 2019)

people wanking vista just because he touched swords with Mihawk 

jesus f. christ OL never changes


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

Vista
Lor D. Coast
stairs
Pell


are all part of the OP Cabal

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Mihawk downplayers

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

xmysticgohanx said:


> Daz Bones implied it existed back in alabasta
> 
> It's is the same reason Daz Bones took no damage from Mihawk's air slash


I mean like being able to selectively choose which material to cut? To my understanding, cutting Diamond is akin to having enough Willpower and Haki to cut through whats incredibly to cut. So like if A swordsman decides to cut Diamond, they're weaponizing their Haki to cut but that doesnt' mean that they also won't cut say Flesh with that exact same slash. Perhaps im wrong though because if you can selectively choose what material to cut with any particular slash, thats fucking huge in my opinion. I interpreted what Kyoshiro said as simply being able to pick when you blade cuts something and when it doesn't. 

Maybe im rambling and being in coherent but to me it's like a binary. 1 or 0. It's either this attack will cut or it won't.  Not like this attack won't cut x material but will cut y material.


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

>All these neggas thinking the MC main idol is gonna be weaker than his butt buddy main dream
Hot damn


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 16, 2019)

> MC main idol


lol Shanks will ultimately be a blip on Luffys radar (as far as power levels go) 

he will already be Shanks+ level *before* he is ready to face EoS Teach and Imu



Shanks is just a yonkou without any WS title, Luffy will end PK+ lvl

Reactions: Like 3


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> >All these neggas thinking the MC main idol is gonna be weaker than his butt buddy main dream
> Hot damn


I cant imaging that Mihawk can lose against a fish or getting outspeeded by Higuma and his gas grenade

But nice try

Reactions: Like 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> lol Shanks will ultimately be a blip on Luffys radar (as far as power levels go)
> 
> he will already be Shanks+ level *before* he is ready to face EoS Teach and Imu
> 
> ...


Kaido has the title of the WSC yet the negga took multiple Ls
A yonkou that has serious ties to the plot.
Luffy being >shanks EOS is redundant considering we know red hair will be surpassed by luffy but as of now we don’t even know how luffy gonna perform against either big mom Or Kaido
we haven’t even seen shanks gone all out in a fight so why are acting as if he aint  capable of giving hawkeye the work in a fight?

Y’all neggas assuming shit where we don’t even how either of the two will perform in the future.


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## Law (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> Kaido has the title of the WSS


Stopped reading here


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> I cant imaging that Mihawk can lose against a fish or getting outspeeded by Higuma and his gas grenade
> 
> But nice try


I can’t imagine shanks being incapable of stomping at best the third strongest YC in Whitebeards crew

But yeah okay



Law said:


> Stopped reading here


I meant creature m8 accidentally put the s there


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## T.D.A (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> I can’t imagine shanks being incapable of stomping at best the third strongest YC in Whitebeards crew
> 
> But yeah okay



Mihawk would beat Vista so you're point is futile.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Mihawk would beat Vista so you're point is futile.


He didn't one shot  vista so nah its sticks


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> I can’t imagine shanks being incapable of stomping at best the third strongest YC in Whitebeards crew
> 
> But yeah okay


BS,Mihawk didnt even pay atention to him

Neither he was serious

I cant believe you try to deny the Databook as well

Can you read?"He looks forward to the day a swordmaster will emerge to surpass even his rival,red-haired Shanks"

Reactions: Like 4


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> BS,Mihawk didnt even pay atention to him
> 
> Neither he was serious
> 
> ...


And said databooks stated vista rivals him in swordsmanship so do you really wanna play this game 
Also let’s ignore how he failed to one shot vista and if his ass had no problem giving those fodders the fuck off treatment then vista would’ve gotten the same business but yet he didn’t strange huh


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> And said databooks stated vista rivals him in swordsmanship so do you really wanna play this game
> Also let’s ignore how he failed to one shot vista and if his ass had no problem giving those fodders the fuck off treatment then vista would’ve gotten the same business but yet he didn’t strange huh


Swordmanship=Skill and not firepower,speed or haki

Nobody here says that Vista has not the same skill as Mihawk,but Mihawk is simple stronger.He is faster,has more firepower and way better Haki.

Oneshot Vista?Shanks was not able to oneshot Higuma and again,Mihawk had no reason to oneshot Vista.1 "Iceberg" slash and Vista would be dead.

Shanks best feat is cracking some wood.Impressive

If you downplay Mihawk,you automatically downplay Shanks.Pretty simple

Reactions: Like 2


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## T.D.A (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> He didn't one shot  vista so nah its sticks



Mihawk and Vista didn't even have a proper fight, nor was Mihawk going all out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Mihawk and Vista didn't even have a proper fight, nor was Mihawk going all out.


Neither was vista



Acnologia said:


> Swordmanship=Skill and not firepower,speed or haki
> 
> Nobody here says that Vista has not the same skill as Mihawk,but Mihawk is simple stronger.He is faster,has more firepower and way better Haki.
> 
> ...


If you down play shanks u also downplay mihawk pretty simple m8
Shanks who battle kaido and latter came onto the war with not a scratch on him blocked a blow from akainu who was still operating as if shit ain't stopping him
Same shanks who boxed with whitebeard before
Vista is weaker but not to some absurd degree no point of bringing up his skills if his ass ain't worth to a degree otherwise mihawk wouldn't gave a shit about him


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## Steven (Sep 16, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> If you down play shanks u also downplay mihawk pretty simple m8
> Shanks who battle kaido and latter came onto the war with not a scratch on him blocked a blow from akainu who was still operating as if shit ain't stopping him
> Same shanks who boxed with whitebeard before
> Vista is weaker but not to some absurd degree no point of bringing up his skills if his ass ain't worth to a degree otherwise mihawk wouldn't gave a shit about him


You have no prove that Shanks fought Kaido,let alone that he fought alone.

Aha,blocking a normal-casual magma punch makes you now>Mihawk?This punch should hit coby ergo Akainu didn't use his full power

Boxed with WB?Both clashed ONCE and WB didn't use his DF

Shanks is also~BM~Kaido.In which World is that a good/better portrayal compare to a legit WS titel?Only WB and Mihawk has legit WS titel´s,WSC is a rumor titel ergo not legit

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stars (Sep 16, 2019)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Their battles were described as legendary by whiteboard himself,their battle would not have been described as legendary if they were not yonko leveled.
> 
> Also whitebeard stated that how everybody was surprised that a person like shanks came back from east blue without an arm,which already suggests that shanks was a yonko



Whitebeard _never_ described Shanks’ duels with Mihawk as legendary. He only referred to Roger’s ascent to Pirate King as being thought of as a legend by many since it happened so long ago. He characterized Shanks’ duels with Mihawk (which happened at least 10 years before the meeting between Shanks and Whitebeard) as still feeling relatively recent by comparison to further emphasize how long it had been since Roger’s time had ended.

Whitebeard _never_ praised Mihawk, but he _did_ praise Shanks. After Shanks blasted his subordinates with Conqueror’s Haki, Whitebeard acknowledged how strong Shanks’ Haki was and how high Shanks had ascended since his days as Roger’s protege. Later, Whitebeard discussed how surprised he was to hear that someone of Shanks’ caliber lost an arm to an “enemy” in East Blue and asked who claimed it, indicating that he couldn’t think of anyone (Mihawk included) who could be capable of such a feat.

If Whitebeard ever thought of Mihawk as comparable to an emperor in strength then he _never_ would've casually instructed Vista to engage him without a second thought at Marineford. Hell, _someone_ noteworthy would’ve said _something_ about Mihawk being an incredible asset for the Marines or someone that could help them maintain supremacy during that arc if he was as strong as people here want to believe.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Shanks never had a single offensive move in one piece ... talk about his fight style when we saw shit
> 
> his CoC and his CoA are as good as any DF for him



_LMAO...

For someone that has a Shanks avatar that doesn't know that he actually fought...



And...



Let's see...

He faced two top tiers in Whitebeard and Akainu, and used a sword. 

AND 

Here is the temple:_

_ 



It should have been this...


_


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## T.D.A (Sep 16, 2019)

Stars said:


> If Whitebeard ever thought of Mihawk as comparable to an emperor in strength then *he never would've casually instructed Vista to engage him without a second thought at Marineford.* Hell, _someone_ noteworthy would’ve said _something_ about Mihawk being an incredible asset for the Marines or someone that could help them maintain supremacy during that arc if he was as strong as people here want to believe.



WB didn’t do this...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 16, 2019)

Stars said:


> *If Whitebeard ever thought of Mihawk as comparable to an emperor in strength then he never would've casually instructed Vista to engage him without a second thought at Marineford.* Hell, _someone_ noteworthy would’ve said _something_ about Mihawk being an incredible asset for the Marines or someone that could help them maintain supremacy during that arc if he was as strong as people here want to believe.



_LMAO, your ass just lost credibility

_


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 16, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> You have no prove that Shanks fought Kaido,let alone that he fought alone.
> 
> Aha,blocking a normal-casual magma punch makes you now>Mihawk?This punch should hit coby ergo Akainu didn't use his full power
> 
> ...


So by your logic mihawk>Kaido and big mom when he haven’t done a damn thing to suggest he’s either of those two?


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## Stars (Sep 16, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> WB didn’t do this...



Well, insert Marco and the point still stands.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Stars said:


> Well, insert Marco and the point still stands.



The same can be applied to Marco and jozu. 

Are the admirals not comparable to the yonkou cause whitebeard let his boys fight them?


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Big Baller Brand said:


> _LMAO...
> 
> For someone that has a Shanks avatar that doesn't know that he actually fought...
> 
> ...


lol .... what piece of crap argument , as expected from a Zoro wanker

it's like saying Whitebeard fight style is clear just after seeing him clash with Shanks

b ... but whitebeard had a DF ...

yea ... his defining power was his DF ... not his fucking weapon 

watch and you see Shanks defining power is his Haki not his sword too kid


p.s

that fucking Movement  of Shanks losing his arm would cause the fall of WG in the end

what the fucking that pertty boy Mihawk did so far for the plot?

oh right , nothing ... like a worthless piece of shit


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> lol .... what piece of crap argument , as expected from a Zoro wanker
> 
> it's like saying Whitebeard fight style is clear just after seeing him clash with Shanks
> 
> ...



Haki is a supplement so it doesn't matter how strong Shanks haki is. 

Hes weaker then Mihawk.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 16, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Haki is a supplement so it doesn't matter how strong Shanks haki is.
> 
> Hes weaker then Mihawk.



oh right ... I forgot that your work for Oda and saw full power advance CoC in action

Oda is not stupid to me a irreverent character stronger than some one like Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> oh right ... I forgot that your work for Oda and saw full power advance CoC in action
> 
> Oda is not stupid to me a irreverent character stronger than some one like Shanks



I said it doesn't matter how strong Shanks haki is that includes COC as its haki last time I checked. 

You thinking a character is irrelevant doesn't mean oda thinks they our irrelevant. So try again buddy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stars (Sep 16, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> The same can be applied to Marco and jozu.
> 
> Are the admirals not comparable to the yonkou cause whitebeard let his boys fight them?



False equivalency. Jozu actually lost. He only managed to produce a bloody lip after landing a cheap shot while Aokiji was in the midst of fighting Whitebeard. Aokiji, on the other hand, ended Jozu _instantly_ after exploiting a far less duplicitous opportunity. Marco and Kizaru never had an extended fight. They had 2 exchanges on panel and Kizaru was the victor after putting in minimal effort. Whitebeard had a similar opening against Kizaru when Kizaru was preparing to leave their fight to go after Luffy on Mr. 3’s bridge, but Whitebeard failed to do any damage. The difference in strength was made clear between the Admirals and Whitebeard’s top guys.

The same can’t be said for Mihawk. Mihawk and Vista had a legitimate, uninterrupted showdown and Mihawk demonstrated no superiority; absolutely none whatsoever against a challenger fighting on _his_ turf. Mihawk’s portrayal was _nowhere near_ an emperor’s or an Admiral’s that entire Arc, especially considering how much panel time he was given. If the author wanted us to interpret Mihawk as being comparable to (or greater than) an emperor, he would’ve made it abundantly clear. Instead, he seems to have taken great care in his portrayal of Mihawk to let readers know exactly where he stands among the elites.


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 16, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> I mean like being able to selectively choose which material to cut? To my understanding, cutting Diamond is akin to having enough Willpower and Haki to cut through whats incredibly to cut. So like if A swordsman decides to cut Diamond, they're weaponizing their Haki to cut but that doesnt' mean that they also won't cut say Flesh with that exact same slash. Perhaps im wrong though because if you can selectively choose what material to cut with any particular slash, thats fucking huge in my opinion. I interpreted what Kyoshiro said as simply being able to pick when you blade cuts something and when it doesn't.
> 
> Maybe im rambling and being in coherent but to me it's like a binary. 1 or 0. It's either this attack will cut or it won't.  Not like this attack won't cut x material but will cut y material.


 it seems to work like this:

Certain materials act as logias to swordsmen. We know of two: steel and diamond.

The breaths work as ”CoA” against only that material. It’s not an exact comparison though because the breaths don’t increase your attack power

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 16, 2019)

Stars said:


> False equivalency. Jozu actually lost.



He lost due to plot as you well know.

. 





> Marco and Kizaru never had an extended fight. They had 2 exchanges on panel and Kizaru was the victor after putting in minimal effort.



Wouldn't call vista vs Mihawk a extended fight but ok.

Marco losing to kizaru was also plot so again irrelevant.



> Whitebeard had a similar opening against Kizaru when Kizaru was preparing to leave their fight to go after Luffy on Mr. 3’s bridge, but Whitebeard failed to do any damage. The difference in strength was made clear between the Admirals and Whitebeard’s top guys.



Not really Marco and jozu were defeated due to plot so the gap between them and the admirals is unclear.



> The same can’t be said for Mihawk. Mihawk and Vista had a legitimate, uninterrupted showdown and Mihawk demonstrated no superiority;



Neither did jozu and marco outside of plot.



> absolutely none whatsoever against a challenger fighting on _his_ turf. Mihawk’s portrayal was _nowhere near_ an emperor’s or an Admiral’s that entire Arc, especially considering how much panel time he was given.



He has to this date one of the best destructive feats in the manga and he did it casually.

Also he barely did anything that arc and certainly didn't have a lot of screen time which you seem to be implying?



> If the author wanted us to interpret Mihawk as being comparable to (or greater than) an emperor, he would’ve made it abundantly clear. Instead, he seems to have taken great care in his portrayal of Mihawk to let readers know exactly where he stands among the elites.



Mihawk barely did anything in marineford. Besides attacking whitebeard at the start he made zero moves to fight anyone of note in whitebeard crew or WB himself. Oda was clearly holding him back his best feat in the manga is agasint luffy of all people that should be clear enough regardless of where you rate Mihawk.

Ah yes a off panel fight for 5 minutes is the perfect indication of a fighters strength

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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 16, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> lol .... what piece of crap argument , as expected from a Zoro wanker
> 
> it's like saying Whitebeard fight style is clear just after seeing him clash with Shanks
> 
> ...



_LMAO, this kid keeps saying, "Wait and see" "Wait and see.." 
I guess you didn't know Haki is a suppliment to the main fighting style. Actually, its more of an enhancement. Keep that in mind, enhancecment of the main fighting style. And since it was shown that Shanks is in the water, and uses a sword, what derp derp conclusion can you come up with?  _


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## Dunno (Sep 17, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> So by your logic mihawk>Kaido and big mom when he haven’t done a damn thing to suggest he’s either of those two?


Mihawk has clearly shown by feats that he's above Big Mom. Kaido is a bit more sketchy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Big Baller Brand (Sep 17, 2019)

_LOL people with the Mihawk vs Vista must be only looking at this and it tickles their lil wee wee's 

Even though 99% didn't happen_


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

shisuiuchiha5 said:


> Their battles were described as legendary by whiteboard himself,their battle would not have been described as legendary if they were not yonko leveled.
> 
> Also whitebeard stated that how everybody was surprised that a person like shanks came back from east blue without an arm,which already suggests that shanks was a yonko





Dunno said:


> I assume that the translation in the vivre card thread is correct, which means that Shanks was a Yonkou when he lost his arm. And we know that Mihawk stopped duelling Shanks when he lost his arm, which means that Shanks was a Yonkou when he stopped dueling Mihawk.





xmysticgohanx said:


> VC db





Canute87 said:


> Mihawk said he wasn't interested in challenging a one armed man.
> 
> Shanks was a yonkou for some strange reason back in chapter 1 and he lost his arm suggesting they were still active rivals.


I asked for confirmation not theory.

WB spoke about one duel. There is no indication that they continued duelling after the one WB spoke about. We also don't know what period this duel took place in besides that it occurred before he went to Luffy's village. Shanks and Mihawk could have been admiral level during that duel, after which Shanks became much stronger and came to be a Yonkou. Then he lost his arm. The fact that Shanks asks him if he wants to have a match some 10 years later and only then does Mihawk respond about the arm supports the idea that they didn't duel after the one WB spoke about.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Mihawks CoO is god-tier lvl


he realized that Luffy wields the power of the MC after fighting him once

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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> watch and you see Shanks defining power is his Haki not his sword too kid




Haki is not a defined fighting style.

You may say he have some unknown fighting style like Sanji , the Cp9 , don sai or whatever, or even a devil fruit.... but *HAKI *is *NOT *a fighting style.

Haki cover your weapon and/or your body, and can be thrown or send at an opponent. Nothing more.

He is used to *enhance *a fighting style.

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Shanks hairy leg kicks are stronger than his sword cuts


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Haki is not a defined fighting style.
> 
> You may say he have some unknown fighting style like Sanji , the Cp9 , don sai or whatever, or even a devil fruit.... but *HAKI *is *NOT *a fighting style.
> 
> ...



I'm talking about CoC not CoA

CoC is rarest and most likely strongest force in one piece world

who knows how Shanks control and willed that power ...


*Oda himself implied in SBS that Shanks fight style is some thing to wonder about*

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> CoC strongest force in one piece world

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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

Claudio Swiss said:


> So by your logic mihawk>Kaido and big mom when he haven’t done a damn thing to suggest he’s either of those two?


BM
Blitzed by Brook is a good feat...
And Kaido is overrated.Not even endgamematerial


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Big Baller Brand said:


> _LMAO, this kid keeps saying, "Wait and see" "Wait and see.."
> I guess you didn't know Haki is a suppliment to the main fighting style. Actually, its more of an enhancement. Keep that in mind, enhancecment of the main fighting style. And since it was shown that Shanks is in the water, and uses a sword, what derp derp conclusion can you come up with?  _



just add your name to the list of people I should kick their ass during Shanks story arc ... I can't remember all of you


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> CoC is rarest and most likely strongest force in one piece world





CoC was never , *EVER *, stated to be the strongest force in the one piece world.

None of the top tiers we're hyped for their CoC mastery , but rather their respective DF/ability.



Red Admiral said:


> who knows how Shanks control and willed that power ...



Not you.

So don't bring CoC on a whim...



Red Admiral said:


> Oda himself implied in SBS that Shanks fight style is some thing to wonder about



Thanks but it doesn't change the fact that "Haki technique mastery" and "CoC power" are baseless head canon.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Shanks has the biggest CoCk is what Red Admiral wants to believe

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> Shanks has the biggest CoCk is what Red Admiral wants to believe


It's time to stop typing and go to bed


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

ask Makino


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> CoC was never , *EVER *, stated to be the strongest force in the one piece world.
> 
> None of the top tiers we're hyped for their CoC mastery , but rather their respective DF/ability.
> 
> ...



the argument about "stated yet" is not a good argument is one piece


Advance CoA and CoO and black blades were not stated to be the case just 2 years ago ...
really you don't ? cause CoC is the real hype for both Roger and Shanks
we are talking about a man who never show his offensive attacks ... saying we don't know his fight style and possibility of is is MUCH more valid argument than we know
they are no head canon ... there are strong possibilities ...


if you think Oda give CoA and CoO advance from and say " nah , fuck CoC"

you are walking on ice


sure ... you can deny
sure ... you can say we don't know
sure ... you can say it's head canon


and I'm fine ...

*but at least admit you were wrong when you are proven to be wrong

and I would the same if Oda didn't give a darn about rarest and most hyped power in one piece where top tiers were shocked and sweaty to see it *


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Advance CoA and CoO and black blades were not stated to be the case just 2 years ago ...




Still a way to enhance your fighting style. Not a way to fight itself. Hell a swordman like hyou who was known as a master sworddman know how to use Avanced CoA.


Red Admiral said:


> really you don't ? cause CoC is the real hype for both Roger and Shanks



No.
Never ever was it made clear that they master it better than anyone.


Red Admiral said:


> we are talking about a man who never show his offensive attacks ... saying we don't know his fight style and possibility of is is MUCH more valid argument than we know




I never claimed I know what is his fighting style.

*You are.
*
And you are linking it to CoC.



Red Admiral said:


> if you think Oda give CoA and CoO advance from and say " nah , fuck CoC"
> 
> you are walking on ice




I'm sure he can give him advanced CoC the same way he can give it to any other top tier using CoC. Even sengoku. (Who have CoC according to databook).


Just countrary to you : I need proofs.

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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Still a way to enhance your fighting style. Not a way to fight itself. Hell a swordman like hyou who was known as a master sword know how to use Avanced CoA.
> 
> 
> No.
> ...




dude the problem is you assume weakling like hyo anywhere NEAR the top of Haki ... Luffy surpassed him in a week , Katakuri and Hyo level of Haki is CHILD'S PLAY compere to Roger and Shanks ...
really? in manga Shanks was hyped for his overwhelming Haki ... never his swordsmanship and in SBS oda hyped him for his CoC and in old  data book he was hyped for his CoC ... so I don't know what fuck never ever means ... but ... ya
yes cause Shanks's Haki is the biggest hype around him ...

dude you do understand Roger didn't had any DF and was equal to Whitebeard (in age 50 for sure he didn't)

and in case you don't know ... old sick fucked whitebeard had

such strong CoO he could see Ace coming in sleep
strong CoA to damage Akainu
strong CoC to split the heavens

in him Prime ... all this 3 Haki should be much stronger and he of the strongest DF ever

and yet

Roger was equal to him with no DF

now it's MASSIVELY UNLIKELY Roger had better weapon to raw power than Whitebeard ... at most equal as well

so ... how they were equal


right ... the only possible logic is ... in Roger's tier ... the level of Haki is MASSIVELY above what we saw so far and his over all Haki is equal to Whitebeard over all Haki + Gura Gura

and this is a level of Haki we never saw so far

and this is a level of Haki Shanks should be


Haki is not a changing any body's fight style in story so far ... simply cause no body had the level of Haki that Roger and Shanks have


and you have be sure the shit people like Sengoku can never ever hold a candle to Shanks in terms of Haki let alone CoC


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

now this guy trying to low-key peddle that Shanks has Roger level haki


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> really? in manga Shanks was hyped for his overwhelming Haki



When ???

Just because he made few fodders faint in WB ship ?

By who was he hyped ? WB ? Roger ? Big Mom ?

Marco warning his fodder nakama from a top tier in comming means Shanks is a CoC god ?

C'mon now ....



Red Admiral said:


> dude you do understand Roger didn't had any DF and was equal to Whitebeard (in age 50 for sure he didn't)



It was never said that he don't have a devil fruit....
.


Red Admiral said:


> right ... the only possible logic is ... in Roger's tier ... the level of Haki is MASSIVELY above what we saw so far and his over all Haki is equal to Whitebeard over all Haki + Gura Gur



We know nothing about his fighting style.



Red Admiral said:


> and this is a level of Haki Shanks should be



Shanks world strongest man confirmed 


Red Admiral said:


> and you have be sure the shit people like Sengoku can never ever hold a candle to Shanks in terms of Haki let alone



Litteraly nothing to say more than  "I need for feats"....

Oda can make him a CoO , CoA , or CoC god , but everything you said is baseless head canon.

If guys like kata may have better CoO than big mom then sengoku may have a better CoC than Shanks.

And *CoC *was never *EVER :
*
1- Stated to be shanks or Roger main fighting style
2- Best power in the world
3- Or Shanks CoC being above the rest

And it was never stated roger doesn't have a devil fruit , or how he fight.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

dat overwhelming power


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## RossellaFiamingo (Sep 17, 2019)

Shanks lost his arm to the first D Lor D. Coast and the only remaining God tier in the verse yet Zolo and Mohawk fans think it's laughable. Imagine having your serious attacks be dodged by pre ts luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> When ???
> 
> Just because he made few fodders faint in WB ship ?
> 
> ...




no ... cause Jozu admit to his overwhelming Haki as always and so as Whitebeard

and btw
you are clearly didn't understand what happened in Whitebeard ship

he did K.O fodder ... he K.O any one at rage on his Haki

*Marco and rest of the crew were in safe place since Shanks was contorting his haki range *

*Marco ask weaker members to join him in behind fence cause he knew there were safe

he ask "weaker members" cause he was sure they stand no chance ... but we see many fodder there are safe ... simply cause there was no Haki force over there as Marco expected ... 

and later on Shanks too admit he just played safe and nothing real

so we just don't know if Shanks's Haki could or could not K.O Marco, Jozu and ... *

*they didn't took the chance and never stood in a place where Shanks CoC was active

*
read the chapter again if you don't remember clearly enough 

___________________________________________________________________


and when Luffy use his CoC on Marine ford people say : like Red-Hair and Old man ...

now it's logical to point out WB in this statement since they were WBP

but why Shanks?

WBP consider Shanks as world know CoC users ... while they should have seen MANY others with CoC

__________________________________________________________________________


sure Roger's pirate call DF a myth while their captain is a DF user ... make sense ... lol

_______________________________________________________________________________


wtf ... we know nothing about Roger and we do know about Shanks

for all we saw Roger used a sword in Ed war too ... so .... hmmm ....

_________________________________________________________________________________

yes ... glad you understand that finally

Shanks is the strongest and closest to Roger in name and power

well until Teach hit his Prime

__________________________________________________________________________________


good ... wait for feat

but if you need only feat to agree with me
logically
you need only feat to deny me


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> sure Roger's pirate call DF a myth while their captain is a DF user ... make sense ... lol


Buggy ate a DF right before their eyes 




Red Admiral said:


> Shanks is the strongest and closest to Roger in name and power


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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

Captain>underlings

Reactions: Like 5


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## Asaya7 (Sep 17, 2019)

This thread is still going?

damn, screw the shanks fanboys who are delusional and cant accept reality. they are like flatearthers...

Mihawk still >= Shanks. And i added the "=" only because im giving shanks some huge yonko benefit of the doubt.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> he did K.O fodder ... he K.O any one at rage on his Haki
> 
> *Marco and rest of the crew were in safe place since Shanks was contorting his haki range*




I hope you're not saying Shanks could make Marco or jozu faint if he was near him  because that's some next level of reaching.


Marco told the *new/youngs guys* of his crew to stay back ....not everyone, because they can't resist his CoC.



Red Admiral said:


> *so we just don't know if Shanks's Haki could or could not K.O Marco, Jozu and ... *
> 
> *they didn't took the chance and never stood in a place where Shanks CoC was active*



This is a level if wank I never seen before.

Dude ... Marco and Jozu were not affraid of him the slightiest or even nervous. The only thing this prove is that fodder can't resist him.

*People were already fainting around marco and he was fine. Means Shanks CoC did NOT affect him.*

Means Shanks haki didn't not affect him.
(Neither the dude who was asking people around him why are they all fainting one by one : chap 434 page 4 )

And if he thought Shanks could make him faint , half metters difference from his place is not gonna protect him from a yonko while guys like luffy make 50 000 dudes dispatched on hundreds of meters faint in one minute.

That just show what we already know : CoC user make fodder faint.



Red Admiral said:


> and when Luffy use his CoC on Marine ford people say : like Red-Hair and Old man ...



Fucking DD made people faint , Big mom too ..

Luffy feat is no different.

Some of them saw Shanks using it and WB too... so they said it. What are you trying to prove here ???



Red Admiral said:


> WBP consider Shanks as world know CoC users ... while they should have seen MANY others with CoC




Because few of them saw shanks do it ??? Do you have evidence all of them faced BM or Kaido ?

Boa sisters compared luffy CoC too hancock ... hancock is a CoC legende too ???




Red Admiral said:


> sure Roger's pirate call DF a myth while their captain is a DF user ... make sense ... lol




Or he ate a devil fruit during his travel ?
Or had other unkown fighting style we don't know about ?



Red Admiral said:


> *yes ... glad you understand that finally*
> 
> Shanks is the strongest and closest to Roger in name and power
> 
> well until Teach hit his Prime

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dunno (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> I asked for confirmation not theory.
> 
> WB spoke about one duel. There is no indication that they continued duelling after the one WB spoke about. We also don't know what period this duel took place in besides that it occurred before he went to Luffy's village. Shanks and Mihawk could have been admiral level during that duel, after which Shanks became much stronger and came to be a Yonkou. Then he lost his arm. The fact that Shanks asks him if he wants to have a match some 10 years later and only then does Mihawk respond about the arm supports the idea that they didn't duel after the one WB spoke about.


You will get no confirmation, only very strong evidence. Talking about theoretical possibilities is nonsensical. Kaido could also be Nezumi level, Shanks could be Smoker's son and Dragon could be a marine. We can't be sure that those things aren't true, but we have no reason whatsoever to believe they are.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Dunno said:


> You will get no confirmation, only very strong evidence. Talking about theoretical possibilities is nonsensical. Kaido could also be Nezumi level, Shanks could be Smoker's son and Dragon could be a marine. We can't be sure that those things aren't true, but we have no reason whatsoever to believe they are.


I asked for confirmation. You replied with what you presumably thought was confirmation. I indicated it wasn't confirmation. You agree here and say it isn't confirmation.

Next time I ask for confirmation, don't reply unless it is actually confirmation thanks. 

Also I like this statement: ''You will get no confirmation, only very strong evidence'' We have no confirmation then that Mihawk is WSS.


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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

I swear,CoC is the only argument you guys have and even here you fail because CoC is useless in a fight


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> I asked for confirmation not theory.
> 
> WB spoke about one duel. There is no indication that they continued duelling after the one WB spoke about.



True but why does it matter how many times they fought?




> We also don't know what period this duel took place in besides that it occurred before he went to Luffy's village. Shanks and Mihawk could have been admiral level during that duel, after which Shanks became much stronger and came to be a Yonkou. Then he lost his arm.



Like wise mihawk could of gotten much stronger and became the WSS during that same time period.

Admiral level is yonkou level by the way.




> The fact that Shanks asks him if he wants to have a match some 10 years later and only then does Mihawk respond about the arm supports the idea that they didn't duel after the one WB spoke about.



Lmao what not sure how you come to this conclusion.  That was the only interaction we have seen of mihawk and shanks. For all we know 3 years before that Mihawk and shanks met up and mihawk talked shit to him then as well. Perhaps mihawk and shanks haven't even talked to each other since shanks lost his arm who knows, I highly doubt it seeing as mihawk seemed to find shanks pretty easily so he must have a vivre card of shanks or a way to contact him easily. But fact of the matter is we don't know how much shanks and mihawk have interacted.

Regardless the amount of times mihawk and shanks fought is not really relevant. We know WB considers it worth mentioning and that he also considers it not that long ago. So it being like 15 years ago wouldent be that strange.





Seraphoenix said:


> I asked for confirmation. You replied with what you presumably thought was confirmation. I indicated it wasn't confirmation. You agree here and say it isn't confirmation.
> 
> Next time I ask for confirmation, don't reply unless it is actually confirmation thanks.
> 
> Also I like this statement: ''You will get no confirmation, only very strong evidence'' *We have no confirmation then that Mihawk is WSS.*



Is this a joke cause I don't get it?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> I hope you're not saying Shanks could make Marco or jozu faint if he was near him  because that's some next level of reaching.
> 
> 
> Marco told the *new/youngs guys* of his crew to stay back ....not everyone, because they can't resist his CoC.
> ...


Just to chime in here. Jozu himself says if you are not prepared you will lose consciousness in front of Shanks. This indicates if he wasn't prepared he would get knocked out. We even get ''brr brr'' sounds from him indicating he felt the effects.

I agree that Marco wasn't affected but Jozu was.


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> True but why does it matter how many times they fought?


Cause people are saying they were still fighting at the time he went to Shanks' village while WB seems to indicate that they had one big duel before stopping, not multiple.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Like wise mihawk could of gotten much stronger and became the WSS during that same time period.


Or the duel was to determine who was WSS. How do people get titles in-verse? Presumably by beating others.



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Admiral level is yonkou level by the way.


Na there is a huge gap. Wanna see some evidence besides the countless I've given? Take my point that when they duelled they were admiral level. Shanks then became much stronger and became a Yonkou while Mihawk was crowned WSS and settled at admiral level.

Him not wanting to fight Yonkou Shanks with one arm then makes sense given that he thought Admiral level was same as Yonkou level like you. Then MF happened and Mihawk got the shock of his life when he found out that Admiral level is closer to top Commander level as Vista nearly took his lunch money while Jozu punked his strongest slash. He could only watch WB from a distance like a rejected fan.




Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Lmao what not sure how you come to this conclusion.  That was the only interaction we have seen of mihawk and shanks. For all we know 3 years before that Mihawk and shanks met up and mihawk talked shit to him then as well. Perhaps mihawk and shanks haven't even talked to each other since shanks lost his arm who knows, I highly doubt it seeing as mihawk seemed to find shanks pretty easily so he must have a vivre card of shanks or a way to contact him easily. But fact of the matter is we don't know how much shanks and mihawk have interacted.
> 
> Regardless the amount of times mihawk and shanks fought is not really relevant. We know WB considers it worth mentioning and that he also considers it not that long ago. So it being like 15 years ago wouldent be that strange.


They interacted after Shanks lost his arm as he mentions that Shanks told him about Luffy. In that instance they didn't fight and it only came up 10 years later, again indicating that they stopped fighting a very long time ago.

breh WB also considered mentioning Buggy as a worthy comment. What's your point?



Acnologia said:


> I swear,CoC is the only argument you guys have and even here you fail because CoC is useless in a fight


The previous arc was about mastering a higher level of CoO, while this one is about CoA. Don't you think that Oda is saving CoC for last because it's kinda special?


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Just to chime in here. Jozu himself says if you are not prepared you will lose consciousness in front of Shanks.



And what is exactly being prepared ? This term could means litteraly anything.

It can mean being ready to face someone , and you can be ready by being strong enough to face him.

Otherwise guys like roger or WB would faint from him if not prepared... which is hard to imagine.

As for Jozu , I read the chapter and check the anime adaptation , but never seen any "br br" on him.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Asaya7 said:


> This thread is still going?
> 
> damn, screw the shanks fanboys who are delusional and cant accept reality. they are like flatearthers...
> 
> Mihawk still >= Shanks. And i added the "=" only because im giving shanks some huge yonko benefit of the doubt.



bull crap ... Yonko > all

an irreverent farmer who have no value for plot be above Yonko?

what a joke

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> The previous arc was about mastering a higher level of CoO, while this one is about CoA. Don't you think that Oda is saving CoC for last because it's kinda special?


CoC cant help you in a fight

CoA=Boost your dura and let allow you to hit logia´s real body
CoO=Pre-cog
CoC=Irrelevant

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> I hope you're not saying Shanks could make Marco or jozu faint if he was near him  because that's some next level of reaching.
> 
> 
> Marco told the *new/youngs guys* of his crew to stay back ....not everyone, because they can't resist his CoC.
> ...



go read the manga and you see every thing was just as I said

+

lol ... whitebeard pirates are fighting in new world for over 25 years and saw almost every fighter that matter

and the one who said that was one of 16 YC of WB not a fodder 

+

so Roger ate is DF on his last 3 or 4 years of his life?

now that's a weak claim 

possible ... yet weak

+

so you think Shanks is strongest and know the meaning the word Sarcasm

no wonder I like you


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> go read the manga and you see every thing was just as I said




Shanks use CoC
Marco and a guy realise a bunch of dudes around them are fainting while they are not.

Conclusion : Marco prevented the youngsters because fodder can't resist his CoC.

Nothing new.



Red Admiral said:


> lol ... whitebeard pirates are fighting in new world for over 25 years and saw almost every fighter that matter



Some of them may be new guys , just like ace.

And all if them didn't neccesary meat the yonko , just faced their crew members.

Chopper never faced smoker dispite meeting him 3 times.



Red Admiral said:


> so Roger ate is DF on his last 3 or 4 years of his life?
> 
> now that's a weak claim
> 
> ...



And he may have even more fighting styles we know not.

No one heard about gempo or roshukishi until it was shown.



Red Admiral said:


> so you think Shanks is strongest and know the meaning the word Sarcasm



You said Shanks is the strongest. I said :



Gledania said:


> Shanks world strongest man confirmed



Means I don't believe it. The guy rolling his eyes is a way to show you I don't take it seriously...

No reason to concidere shanks above the other yonko.
At best he die facing teach who will face luffy before the final war.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Shanks use CoC
> Marco and a guy realise a bunch of dudes around them are fainting while they are not.
> 
> Conclusion : Marco prevented the youngsters because fodder can't resist his CoC.
> ...



lol ... dude ... why you try not to see this?


Shanks coming to the ship
Marco ask weaker member to join him
why?
cause he is standing somewhere that there is no Haki force , he know there is no Haki force there so he ask the weaker people go there
so Marco and people around him just wan't in Haki field ...

I'm not even saying for sure Shanks can K.O Marco ... that's ... too much I guess ... but at least you need agree with this cause this is manga

_____________________________

so ... they just said Shanks name cause Shanks is the only other CoC user they met?

you really belive that or just saying to make a case for yourself?

just asking

_________________________________

why you assume Roger can have hidden fight style and yet not for Shanks

really ... why?

Shanks just stopped WB and Akainu like a joke ... he didn't use a "fight style" in manga ...

__________________________________

oh ... I though some one is giving tony a BJ

_________________________________

I'm ok with 

Kaido > Shanks 
or even
Big Mom > Shanks

they do have a better claim ... Mihawk don't a better claim ... have a room for doubt 


in real manga Oda never even implied to me Mihawk > Shanks and a title with no clear meaning is not every thing


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Cause people are saying they were still fighting at the time he went to Shanks' village while WB seems to indicate that they had one big duel before stopping, not multiple.



Far as we know Shanks and Mihawk dueled right before Shanks left to the village.

Like we dont know. We can only guess based on what's given. So yea your scenario is certainly possible.

It's also possible that admiral level shanks was also made a yonkou and then got stronger as he has been a yonkou for over 13 years so it's possible.







> Or the duel was to determine who was WSS. How do people get titles in-verse? Presumably by beating others.



That would only work if one of them had the title. So did Mihawk beat Shanks and take his title?




> Na there is a huge gap. Wanna see some evidence besides the countless I've given



Evidence that Yonkou>Admirals which I'm sure you have is not the same as evidence that yonkou>>>admiral's.

So yea I would like to see it.



> Take my point that when they duelled they were admiral level. Shanks then became much stronger and became a Yonkou while Mihawk was crowned WSS and settled at admiral level.



Its odas manga he can do whatever he wants so this is possible.

But why should I assume that Shanks got stronger in the last 13+ years but not mihawk?



> Him not wanting to fight Yonkou Shanks with one arm then makes sense given that he thought Admiral level was same as Yonkou level like you.



I doubt Mihawk not wanting to fight Shanks has anything to do with power levels.

But assuming it is this line of thinking makes the assumption that Mihawk cant accurately gauge the strength of top tiers. Which is a ridiculous notion. The Databook makes it clear regardless of what Mihawk himself thinks that he stands at the top of Swordsmen regardless to the point that he is bored.



> Then MF happened and Mihawk got the shock of his life when he found out that Admiral level is closer to top Commander level as Vista nearly took his lunch money while Jozu punked his strongest slash. He could only watch WB from a distance like a rejected fan.



Again this pushes the notion that Mihawk is incapable of gauging the power of people which again is a ridiculous notion.




> They interacted after Shanks lost his arm as he mentions that Shanks told him about Luffy



That's right I forgot about that.

But we dont know what else was said in that convoy. Did shanks ask if he wanted to fight who knows.

. 





> In that instance they didn't fight and it only came up 10 years later, again indicating that they stopped fighting a very long time ago.



I agree they stopped fighting a long time ago but if it was like 20 years ago I doubt WB would say it's still fresh on his ears cause that's literally right after roger died so that should still be considered the good old days in whitebeard mind or close to it anyway.



> breh WB also considered mentioning Buggy as a worthy comment. What's your point?



Stop being silly.

Wb mentioned buggy because he was always around Shanks and he was thinking about his meetings with Shanks back in Roger's age.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Far as we know Shanks and Mihawk dueled right before Shanks left to the village.



reading Shanks data book


he was a rookie on Roger's ship
had many duels with Mihawk
stood equal to Whitebeard

their famous legendary duel was before Shanks become a Yonko cause this is a the order DB gave us


Mihawk most likely took the title of World Strongest Swordsman while Shanks had his 2 arms ...

but Shanks too never gave a real shit about title and title is about pure sword skill anyway

we are talking about closet man to one piece who can be pirate king when ever he want ... and yet don't give a shit


in one piece the one with most freedom is the strongest

like Roger was
like Shanks is
like Luffy will be

this is a the bound of strew hats form 900 years ago up to this point ... some thing clear since chapter 1 

the only person atm Shanks might be weaker than is Imu
the only people that will surpass Shanks are Luffy and Teach


deny and make fan fiction ... this is what Oda gonna do


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> reading Shanks data book
> 
> 
> he was a rookie on Roger's ship
> ...



No it's not 



If it was a test of pure skill then kuina could become the WSS but she says she cant because she's a women and will eventually lose out in physical strength to men.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> No it's not
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a test of pure skill then kuina could become the WSS but she says she cant because she's a women and will eventually lose out in physical strength to men.


Zoro would be a better *swordsman* than all of them and greatest in *swords skill *

Zoro might be even a better swordsman than Roger himself right now!!!

sure

but

Shanks > Zoro
Roger > Zoro



Shanks is an original character created base on Oda himself and have massive plot armor
Zoro was going to be a Buggy pirate


Oda know people like Zoro and for that give him story arcs and fights where people enjoy

but give Zoro more power than Shanks? he will not do it unless Plot MAKE HIM ...
and being greatest swordsman is Zoro dream and he don't need Zoro to be above Shanks to make that happen

so ... ya ... plot won't make him


*the biggest Shanks wanker in one piece fandom is Oda
and his wank is our canon

in the end of the day even I'm downplaying Shanks tbh*


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Zoro would be a better *swordsman* than all of them and greatest in *swords skill *
> 
> Zoro might be even a better swordsman than Roger himself right now!!!
> 
> ...



You just said a whole lot of nothing. 

Zoro will be as strong as oda wants him to be.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

God damn

@Kinjin everything was said,i think you can close this.practically everything just turns around in a circle


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## Asaya7 (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> bull crap ... Yonko > all
> 
> an irreverent farmer who have no value for plot be above Yonko?
> 
> what a joke


if you ever decide to add anything of stubstance to any of your claims/arguments, hit me up.

Until then, you are just a flatearther still..



Red Admiral said:


> the biggest Shanks wanker in one piece fandom is Oda
> and his wank is our canon
> 
> in the end of the day even I'm downplaying Shanks tbh


Boy please, shanks is your jesus.


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> so Marco and people around him just wan't in Haki field ...



People around him faint one after the other exept one ... and himself. So no.

Marco did not faint from shanks CoC despite facing it.



Red Admiral said:


> so ... they just said Shanks name cause Shanks is the only other CoC user they met?
> 
> you really belive that or just saying to make a case for yourself?
> 
> just asking



Only few people use CoC. It's possible that *some *of them saw coc for the third time of their life....

And luffy did litteraly nothing more than using CoC.

They litteraly said *he used conqueror haki.
*
Nothing different from any other.



Red Admiral said:


> why you assume Roger can have hidden fight style and yet not for Shanks
> 
> really ... why?


*
Never said he don't.
*
I said you putting his CoC over anyone is headcanon.

Not a fact. No reason to say his main fighting style is CoC or his CoC is the strongest power and other nonsens...

I can claim kaido is the strongest being of all time. It's based on nothing.



Red Admiral said:


> in real manga Oda never even implied to me Mihawk > Shanks and a title




Never really cared which one is above the other. Who ever Zoro fight in EoS will be a better swordman than any other. As for haki technique shit or wathever I don't know or care.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> You just said a whole lot of nothing.
> 
> Zoro will be as strong as oda wants him to be.



the things I said was in case people don't feel stupid when I'm proven right ...

cause what is Oda plan is beyond obvious ... and that's why I guessed most of them right 


*people are as strong as plot need them to be ... this is a rule *

there is no reason to make some one stronger than they should 


just ask how strong plot need this person to be and your answer would be hardly wrong


cause it may surprise people


*Writers don't give a darn about power level ... they care about plot armor and plot convenience and they created power level base on this 2 and every one are as strong as story need them to be 

not a bit more , not a bit less*


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Acnologia said:


> God damn
> 
> @Kinjin everything was said,i think you can close this.practically everything just turns around in a circle


This isn't your thread, sit down.

Reactions: Like 3


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## T.D.A (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> Zoro would be a better *swordsman* than all of them and greatest in *swords skill *
> 
> Zoro might be even a better swordsman than Roger himself right now!!!
> 
> ...



Prime Zoro > Shanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 17, 2019)

Most cancerous thread I've seen in a long time

And that's thanks to only one person


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Prime Zoro > Shanks


if that happen ... I'm fine ...

but to me is just make no sense ... at least right now

it's not that I want Shanks be stronger than every one and if you say no I fight you

you say

Roger
Whitebeard
Garp
Kaido
Big Mom
Imu
Prime Teach
Prime Luffy

are above Shanks and I agree or at worst don't disagree

cause this people make a case atm ...

Prime Zoro and Mihawk didn't so far


let's say next chapter Mihawk give me a *reason *... and I agree at that moment or be fine with it until Shanks story arc begin 

but he didn't so far!!!

and the fact people act as if this is a proven fact is just sad

Reactions: Like 1


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## Seraphoenix (Sep 17, 2019)

Doflamingo I will reply to you later. Should have expected us to get into a tldr. 


Gledania said:


> And what is exactly being prepared ? This term could means litteraly anything.
> 
> It can mean being ready to face someone , and you can be ready by being strong enough to face him.
> 
> ...


Viz translation:



Another Trans:



You can see the ''brr brr'' in both panels. Both translations imply that Jozu has to put in effort to stay conscious.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> Doflamingo I will reply to you later. Should have expected us to get into a tldr.
> 
> Viz translation:
> 
> ...



don't bother mate

Shanks can stop Kaido in a day ...
Shanks can stop the war
Shanks can have the respect of his enemies like Gorosei
Shanks can do what ever the fuck is beyond realm of power and logic

and people just make a fan fiction and believe that fan fiction just to don't give any credit to Shanks

this is getting sad


p.s

if that low level of Haki of Shanks make Jozu trouble
it's only logical if Shanks go all out with his CoC even some one like Jozu can't remain conscious

this make Kaido KO Luffy look like a joke

and I'm talking "base CoC" not "advance"

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Seraphoenix said:


> You can see the ''brr brr'' in both panels. Both translations imply that Jozu has to put in effort to stay conscious.




Ok then  the anime didn't show it and I read the french version which also didn't show that effect.

But I grant you this, jozu felt something passing.

But this doesn't mean shanks *can *make YC faint.

At least destabilise them.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Ok then  the anime didn't show it and I read the french version which also didn't show that effect.
> 
> But I grant you this, jozu felt something passing.
> 
> ...



power and will are not same thing ... 

*In exactly the same place and exact same situation as Luffy, Shanks or Rayleigh may have been capable of knocking out all 100,000. In a different setting, you can't really compare just by asking "how many people". Being able to knock an enemy out with haki depends entirely on having an overwhelming power gap between the two. In Luffy's case the point is the number of people that were so weak that they were not even worth him fighting*


in one piece the power of will come from "what is you try to protract" 

- Roger


not try to make any case but Shanks can or can't KO YC ... just saying ... 

p.s

no one can be sure if Shanks can or can't 

but seeing how far he is from showing us a all out Haki in that ship ... and knowing he didn't want to hurt people around Marco ... 

the claim of can is stronger than can't ...

but doesn't even matter for me tbh ... one shot a YC2 ?? .... this is a low bar for Shanks to hit anyway


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

All I know is that this chapter tell us that Shanks with no black sword can cope against was WITH a  black sword
Then you choose what it means lol

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Prime Zoro > Shanks


What Is prime Zoro? Eos?.. we can't tell that yet....but a real zorolander can believe that even now if now before time skip too lol...there is no need of feat for them to bait into it


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> All I know is that this chapter tell us that Shanks with no black sword *can cope *against was WITH a  black sword


he cant because he is not WSS-lvl
Mihawk > Shanks

Shank tries to compensate for his inferior CoA with CoC tricks

Reactions: Like 1


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> All I know is that this chapter tell us that Shanks with no black sword can cope against was WITH a  black sword
> Then you choose what it means lol



It means that Shanks has superior conqueror's haki while Mihawk has superior armament haki. And that was always going to be obvious in both cases.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It means that Shanks has superior conqueror's haki while Mihawk has superior armament haki. And that was always going to be obvious in both cases.



but Shanks CoA should be on top level ... fine ... let's say Mihawk have better over all better ...

but

saying Mihawk have a better CoA including advance Haki is a bold claim
and saying the gap is big is just playing fucking stupid

but

the gap of CoC between Shanks and Mihawk ... now this could be a big one

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Mihawk *doesnt have* CoC, so the CoC gap is infinite lol

Mihawk is still stronger overall, because CoC 1v1 uses are limited

Reactions: Like 1


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> It means that Shanks has superior conqueror's haki while Mihawk has superior armament haki. And that was always going to be obvious in both cases.


Yep..as it is obvious that having a superior conqueror is better then having a superior coa



Shiba D. Inu said:


> Mihawk *doesnt have* CoC, so the CoC gap is infinite lol
> 
> Mihawk is still stronger overall, because CoC 1v1 uses are limited


Lol Mihawk better have Coc otherwise it's pretty much assure not just shanks but also Oden was stronger then him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lawliet (Sep 17, 2019)

Let's do dis


Mihawk.. Worldz strongest swordsman. Apparently insane next level shit CoA. Zoro's ultimate PERSONAL goal to surpass. A guy that can literally cut anything from 50 ships to a mountain with stupid swings only.

Shanks.. Yonkou. Was on Roger's ship and apparently inherited Roger's hat somehow. Apparently he got some next level cotc shit. He's not really Luffy's goal like many claim, hes Just a step stone for him. A personal one.

I'm excluding their connections to the story as a whole cause we don't know much about either and we know a lot less about Mihawk who I suspect is going to have some deep plot to the main story. He's a Dracula come on. 

I think Mihawk and Shanks are more or less equal. And I think both Luffy and Zoro needs to surpass both. Luffy will succeed where other failed cause he will have the strongest people of his generation on his side (Zoro and Sanji) plus his stupid way of making everyone an ally.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Yep..as it is obvious that having a superior conqueror is better then having a superior coa



I have a bet with some dude that I don't remember form NF that if there be nothing more to CoC I get ban for a year

I wish some one gather all the people who want to deny CoC > CoO | CoA ... and I do the same bet with all of them


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Lol Mihawk better have Coc otherwise it's pretty much assure not just shanks but also Oden was stronger then him




CoC doesn't put you as stronger than someone....

When will people understand that ?


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## T.D.A (Sep 17, 2019)

@lion of lernia Garp doesn't have CoC and is stronger than Chinjao

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> but Shanks CoA should be on top level ... fine ... let's say Mihawk have better over all better ...
> 
> but
> 
> ...


No worries red..those last chapters revelations just confirm even more that shanks is superior to Mihawk anyhow
Sooner or later everyone will realize that too, thanks to oda,  that among top high tier having a stronger coc or not having it at all it makes a difference in term of who is superior....it should be already clear but still, some won't believe it till they will see it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Gledania said:


> CoC doesn't put you as stronger than someone....
> 
> When will people understand that ?



Shanks and Mihawk have close gap in almost every terms of power ... but CoC

if CoC be just as strong as we saw ... Mihawk > Shanks ... end of the story 

but if not and there be a power gap ... Shanks > Mihawk .... end of the story 


spoiler alert : there is a next level CoC ... there is a gap

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> @lion of lernia Garp doesn't have CoC and is stronger than Chinjao



base on?


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Lol Mihawk better have Coc otherwise it's pretty much assure not just shanks but also Oden was stronger then him

Reactions: Like 1


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> @lion of lernia Garp doesn't have CoC and is stronger than Chinjao


It is not confirmed.... I mean that he doesn't!.. imo he does, we just didn't have databook or Vivre card confirm that still!
Anyway it's a matter of top high tier...and chingao never was one even with coc so...



Red Admiral said:


> base on?


I suppose base on Vivre card info,
But I assume he does like father like son lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> No worries red..those last chapters revelations just confirm even more that shanks is superior to Mihawk anyhow
> Sooner or later everyone will realize thanks to oda that among top high tier having a stronger Vic or not having it at all it makes a difference in term of who is superior....it should be already clear but still, some won't believe it till they will see it



I'm not worry Lion ... I know where I'm standing is safest to be stand ... cause I'm not blind by Zoro will be pirate king level bullshit

all the hype of Mihawk coming from fan fiction and in real manga Oda gave him no real respect

while he could not give any more respect to Shanks and Shanks didn't fought yet ....

the game was over LONG ago ... but the wall of deny is too tall

I wonder what this people gonna do when Shanks > Mihawk was stated ??


you may think they would go logical ... but as we saw just like admiral fan base who got crushed by power of Yonko and their elite members become troll and said Admirals >> Yonko

many of Mihawk fan base would do the same

but never mind ... I want to have some hope in some of them


hopefully they are brave enough to admit there were wrong and waste our time when Oda crush their false god

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## T.D.A (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> It is not confirmed.... I mean that he doesn't!.. imo he does, we just didn't have databook or Vivre card confirm that still!
> Anyway it's a matter of top high tier...and chingao never was one even with coc so...



Vivre card says Garp has CoA, CoO but no mention of CoC unlike Sengoku.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> Vivre card says Garp has CoA, CoO but no mention of CoC unlike Sengoku.


Yes indeed  I know that ..but still this doesn't confirm he doesn't lol
..also don't get surprise if he actually does have it since it is more surprising to know he doesn't , but nothing is confirmed anyway


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> I suppose base on Vivre card info,
> But I assume he does like father like son lol



most likely we never get to see Sengoku using his CoC in manga and that's why DB stated that

not the same case with Garp



T.D.A said:


> Vivre card says Garp has CoA, CoO but no mention of CoC unlike Sengoku.


read my last comment ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> but Shanks CoA should be on top level ... fine ... let's say Mihawk have better over all better ...
> 
> but
> 
> ...



If CoC is really the strongest power in the series greater than any DF, there's no need for Shanks to have comparable CoA to Mihawk. It's odd you would be so defensive towards claims of Mihawk having better CoA when you think CoC is the more worthwhile power anyway.  In fact, since Mihawk has neither CoC nor DF he would need to seriously compensate in CoA and CoO departments.

So far, the manga has chosen to place Shanks' CoC on an exceptional pedestal and Mihawk's CoA on an exceptional pedestal when representing their haki mastery. This is intentional, I feel.

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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> most likely we never get to see Sengoku using his CoC in manga and that's why DB stated that
> 
> not the same case with Garp


Precisely...even becouse I suppose we already seen him using it when he broke chincao drill back in the days...
I think it is also clear that Roger had a stronger will aka Coc then Garp in the first place, and that's why he convinced Garp to take care of ace too, as far as I am concerned, remember the prison scene... Garp take care of my son for me!
Garp ..no I won't..
Roger..yes you will! Lol
Roger Coc> Garp Coc right there lol



Tenma said:


> If CoC is really the strongest power in the series greater than any DF, there's no need for Shanks to have comparable CoA to Mihawk. It's odd you would be so defensive towards claims of Mihawk having better CoA when you think CoC is the more worthwhile power anyway.  In fact, since Mihawk has neither CoC nor DF he would need to seriously compensate in CoA and CoO departments.
> 
> So far, the manga has chosen to place Shanks' CoC on an exceptional pedestal and Mihawk's CoA on an exceptional pedestal when representing their haki mastery. This is intentional, I feel.


True..as he intentionally did place Coc Haki above any others available....among top tier...just saying to evade having diglsningo or chingao mentioned again for no reason...they are not top high tiers

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> True..as he intentionally did place Coc Haki above any others available....among top tier...just saying to evade having diglsningo or chingao mentioned again for no reason...they are not top high tiers



I don't see what this has to do with anything I wrote


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Tenma said:


> If CoC is really the strongest power in the series greater than any DF, there's no need for Shanks to have comparable CoA to Mihawk. *It's odd you would be so defensive towards claims of Mihawk having better CoA* when you think CoC is the more worthwhile power anyway  In fact, since Mihawk has neither CoC nor DF he would need to seriously compensate in CoA and CoO departments.
> 
> So far, the manga has chosen to place Shanks' CoC on an exceptional pedestal and Mihawk's CoA on an exceptional pedestal when representing their haki mastery. This is intentional, I feel.



when I was defensive towards claims of Mihawk having better CoA ... when I said fine he might have? 

and well

so far Manga gave a black sword to Mihawk and we don't even know he created that to just Yuru was black since long ago
so far Manga never gave us a panle where Mihawk use CoA and Data Book said it offically for first time 

so manga never implied Mihawk CoA > Shanks CoA 
we just assume that out of respect to Yuru 


but about your point 

in canon Ace novel even the fodders of Shanks's crew had island level CoO so Shanks CoO should be ... Shanksly 

and his CoA ... there is no real reason to assume he don't have great CoA since he is a haki master 


cause your argument for Shanks not having great CoA is : this would be too much
and my argument for Mihawk not having great CoC is : he need to have official CoC for having a claim to being with


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Shanks vs Mihawk will never ever end


thank you OL

Reactions: Like 2


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 17, 2019)

This is impossible to read through


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## maupp (Sep 17, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


>


He still hasn't realised that CoC is a mass fodders cleaning power. Utterly useless against any decent tier fighter


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 17, 2019)

Can't wait to see the strongest character in the entire Universe unleashing his GODLY COC against Teach


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Let me tell you my tier specialist list of top swordsman!  Get ready shiva..bare with me ..lol
Ryuma...sword god..and wss!
Oden....wss of his time
Mihawk...wss of this era
Zoro.. future wss of the next era, if he will get Coc he might surpass Oden and get second place over all, which it fits his character as he will always be number two lol

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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

CoC is a *leader *power
its what gathers strong people and makes captains/PKs (and their partners/FMs)/Fleet admirals/country leaders

as Mihawk the Clairvoyant himself said - THAT is indeed the most dangerous power on the seas if you look big-picture .. and the ultimate evolution of CoC is Luffys MC plot power


all of that is however irrelevant for 1v1 PLs (Advanced CoC may help in 1v1, but not that much)

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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

maupp said:


> He still hasn't realised that CoC is a mass fodders cleaning power. Utterly useless against any decent tier fighter


want a bet 

a year long ban form NF? 

since I'm so wrong there is no fear... right?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gledania (Sep 17, 2019)

Even if he was drunk and at the bottom of depression , losing all hope and familly , I don't see Oda drawing Shanks killing/defeating another top tier or even make him faint with CoC


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Tenma said:


> I don't see what this has to do with anything I wrote


Dunno I should re read what you wrote up there, but over all I agree with what you said... Mihawk may very well have a better coa then Shanks!
But we still dunno about how many level of coa there are if 3 or 4 and neither how's blade can turned black becouse of coa so it it's alm still up in the air...
Like I said anyway I hope Mihawk does have Coc otherwise the argument of who is stronger among shanks and and Hawkeye it's pretty much done and sorted...

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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

In before we will discover the true absolute coa master is none other then Dragon

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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Let me tell you my tier specialist list of top swordsman!  Get ready shiva..bare with me ..lol
> Ryuma...sword god..and wss!
> Oden....wss of his time
> Mihawk...wss of this era
> Zoro.. future wss of the next era, if he will get Coc he might surpass Oden and get second place over all, which it fits his character as he will always be number two lol



lol ...

one more fight sense form Roger and his beautiful sword
Oden having WSS title

this is even better than Shanks being proven above Mihawk

cause in that case game is over

but if we get Roger/Oden thing ... a LIKELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..... Mihawk fandom would lose their entire claim in this war

it would be so much fun to see them after words ... trying to create argument


and Zoro fans just need to get back to they green lord I assume since Mihawk is done


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

you Shank boys really love CoCks huh


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## Tenma (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> when I was defensive towards claims of Mihawk having better CoA ... when I said fine he might have?
> 
> and well
> 
> ...



Mihawk obviously blackened a blade before, and commonsense says it is Yoru, his own sword. This is pretty basic inference which one would only doubt if they were biased to start with. Having eternal CoA is a form of mastery only ever replicated by one other individual.

Of course, it hasn't been outright stated Mihawk blackened Yoru but based on the thread you made its an inference everyone made logically. At any rate, given your claima about how CoC is the strongest power in the manga and Shanks havimg Roger level haki, assumptions are the last thing you should be complaining about.

Shanks has great CoA, sure, but his area of specialty is CoC. Let's be fair here- if Shanks stands at the pinnacle of CoC, Mihawk stands at the pinmacle of CoA by his once-in-a-generation mastery.

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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 17, 2019)




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## T.D.A (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> read my last comment ...



How did CoC help Ace vs strong opponents?


lion of lernia said:


> Let me tell you my tier specialist list of top swordsman!  Get ready shiva..bare with me ..lol
> Ryuma...sword god..and wss!
> Oden....wss of his time
> Mihawk...wss of this era
> Zoro.. future wss of the next era, if he will get Coc he might surpass Oden and get second place over all, which it fits his character as he will always be number two lol



Zoro won’t just be WSS he will be the greatest swordsman ever, that is already set in stone like Luffy being Pirate King.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Shiba D. Inu said:


> you Shank boys really love CoCks huh


Lmaoo I don't like shanks that much ..red can confirm it , but who should like cocks more then us is you judging by you avatar it should cames out natural lol do you or not? Xd

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tenma (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> In before we will discover the true absolute coa master is none other then Dragon



Given his whole shtick is overhauling the entire world and overthrowing an empire that has ruled for 800 years, I would be _very _surprised if he were anything but a CoC specialist. He's a truer Conqueror than any other.

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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Tenma said:


> Mihawk obviously blackened a blade before, and commonsense says it is Yoru, his own sword. This is pretty basic inference which one would only doubt if they were biased to start with. Having eternal CoA is a form of mastery only ever replicated by one other individual.
> 
> Of course, it hasn't been outright stated Mihawk blackened Yoru but based on the thread you made its an inference everyone made logically. At any rate, given your claima about how CoC is the strongest power in the manga and Shanks havimg Roger level haki, assumptions are the last thing you should be complaining about.
> 
> Shanks has great CoA, sure, but his area of specialty is CoC. Let's be fair here- if Shanks stands at the pinnacle of CoC, Mihawk stands at the pinmacle of CoA by his once-in-a-generation mastery.



again ... even in my threads about Black sword ... I said 
*" I think Mihawk can turn a sword black but Yuru was black before he had it"
*
I don't think it was a unfair statement ... 

again ....

I'm fine with your statement?

Shanks having best CoC among alive
Mihawk having best CoA among alive 

sure ... I'm fine with that

but I'm saying 

the gap if CoC between the two seem MUCH BIGGER than gap of CoA

making Shanks having the lead in over all power

again 

if you think CoC is unless ... and if it be ... sure ... I say it ... Mihawk > Shanks is a fact

but this is just not a bet I want to make since I don't bet for losing my money

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

T.D.A said:


> How did CoC help Ace vs strong opponents?
> 
> 
> Zoro won’t just be WSS he will be the greatest swordsman ever, that is already set in stone like Luffy being Pirate King.



Ace ? man I don't even think Prime Dark King had the level of CoC I'm talking 

the only people I think had advance CoC are Roger and Shanks ... freest man in the seas 

and MAYBE Garp ... similar will to Luffy I assume


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 17, 2019)

Can't wait to see Luffy use THE GODLY COC POWER to defeat the strongest Yonko, Kaido 

Oh wait, he'll just need CoA


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Tenma said:


> Given his whole shtick is overhauling the entire world and overthrowing an empire that has ruled for 800 years, I would be _very _surprised if he were anything but a CoC specialist. He's a truer Conqueror than any other.


Yep..and a coa master...to say the least, considering Sabo knows advanced armament since he was a teen


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## Tenma (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> again ... even in my threads about Black sword ... I said
> *" I think Mihawk can turn a sword black but Yuru was black before he had it"
> *
> I don't think it was a unfair statement ...
> ...



If Mihawk blackened any sword it is obviously his own. Him being able to blacken a sword...but it wasn't Yoru even though he's a single wielder is clumsy and unwieldy writing by Oda standards

I don't think CoC is useless. I think advanced CoC will be very powerful, in fact. Do I think it is the _strongest power _in the manga? Nah, which haki is the most useful will be dependent on situation and where Devil Fruits fit in is even moreso.


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Can't wait to see Luffy use THE GODLY COC POWER to defeat the strongest Yonko, Kaido
> 
> Oh wait, he'll just need CoA



I wonder what ultimate power up he need to face Teach

you know the guy with the strongest Logia , strongest paramecia and soon strongest zoan ... 

the strongest thing who ever lived in any era 

oh right ... Luffy will get CoC it done


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Sakazuki-Singh said:


> Can't wait to see Luffy use THE GODLY COC POWER to defeat the strongest Yonko, Kaido
> 
> Oh wait, he'll just need CoA


Yeah and Coc to add on along with!
You guys really seems to miss the whole point here! I wonder why...
Luffy PK will be the one who amongst the Yonkou will posses the stronger coc!
That's pretty much set in stone from. Chapter one
That said Luffy Coc will eventually surpass shanks too, obviously



Tenma said:


> If Mihawk blackened any sword it is obviously his own. Him being able to blacken a sword...but it wasn't Yoru even though he's a single wielder is clumsy and unwieldy writing by Oda standards
> 
> I don't think CoC is useless. I think advanced CoC will be very powerful, in fact. Do I think it is the _strongest power _in the manga? Nah, which haki is the most useful will be dependent on situation and where Devil Fruits fit in is even moreso.


I always thought and see Coc as the thing that give you the edge over others conqueror, if yours is stronger


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

Tenma said:


> If Mihawk blackened any sword it is obviously his own. Him being able to blacken a sword...but it wasn't Yoru even though he's a single wielder is clumsy and unwieldy writing by Oda standards
> 
> I don't think CoC is useless. I think advanced CoC will be very powerful, in fact. Do I think it is the _strongest power _in the manga? Nah, which haki is the most useful will be dependent on situationn and where Devil Fruits fit in is even more situational.



I have my full argument in black blade threads ... I'm not try to downplay Mihawk ... but having a fair point of view
please don't make me say that all over again ere 


+

very powerful is enough

they are close in every thing

raw power
speed 
swordsmanship
CoO
CoA
weapon

... saying there is a real gap among any of the terms is just not logical ... sure they may have edge each other out but a real gap? na ...


but there is more than likely there is a real gap in CoC

and this is what make Shanks above Mihawk cause he have more over all power


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## Shiba D. Inu (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> I wonder what ultimate power up he need to face Teach
> 
> you know the guy with the strongest Logia , strongest paramecia and soon strongest zoan ...
> 
> ...


plot


G5, awakening
punch harder

Reactions: Like 4


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## Geralt-Singh (Sep 17, 2019)

No one refuted my claim, that's funny


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> but Shanks CoA should be on top level ... fine ... let's say Mihawk have better over all better ...
> 
> but
> 
> ...



Of course Shanks armament haki is on top level. He is still relying on a plain metal weapon after all and also lacks a fruit so it is a given that at least his armament and cotc haki forms are great.

Never said anything about their advanced haki forms nor did I say the gap is big. It could be but I dunno and don't care. If I would have to guess I will say it is something like this:

Shanks *cotc*=10/*CoA*=8/*CoO*=7
Mihawk *cotc*=7,5-8/*CoA*=10/*CoO*=6,5-7,5

Just to give you a rough idea how I imagine what the gaps look like.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> Yep..as it is obvious that having a superior conqueror is better then having a superior coa



Yep definitely is. Whether that means Shanks is superior or not remains to be seen cause Mihawk can be argued to have a non-handicapped body and greater talent in the art of the sword but the way cotc is portrayed you are for sure right anyway.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Superstars (Sep 17, 2019)

Too early to tell between Hawkeye and Shanks. Both are important to the plot, obviously top tiers. However, their strength relationship is still a mystery back then and now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

DiscoZoro20 said:


> Of course Shanks armament haki is on top level. He is still relying on a plain metal weapon after all and also lacks a fruit so it is a given that at least his armament and cotc haki forms are great.
> 
> Never said anything about their advanced haki forms nor did I say the gap is big. It could be but I dunno and don't care. If I would have to guess I will say it is something like this:
> 
> ...



hmmm ... I think 10 is not enough ... more like

Shanks CoC = 99
Shanks CoA =90~95
Shanks CoO = 90 ~ 95

Mihawk CoC = ??
Mihawk CoA = 99
Mihawk CoO = 90 ~ 99


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## Redline (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> hmmm ... I think 10 is not enough ... more like
> 
> Shanks CoC = 99
> Shanks CoA =90~95
> ...


nope..mihawk coo can't be that high otherwise he would have  cut luffy anyhow back at marin ford!
also if mihawk has  coc then it,s around 90 max, if he doesnt then shanks wins hand down



Seraphoenix said:


> This is how I feel when I see Admirals = Yonkou or Akainu = Kaido.
> 
> You're also the second person to ask  for the thread to be closed. Can the mods make a safe space for you guys?


lol they are a bit like flampe!...they can't stand strong coc blast opinoins lol



Sakazuki-Singh said:


> No one refuted my claim, that's funny


the two of them toghether doesnt make one full Oden lol


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## Red Admiral (Sep 17, 2019)

lion of lernia said:


> nope..mihawk coo can't be that high otherwise he would have  cut luffy anyhow back at marin ford!
> also if mihawk has coc then it's around 90 max, if he doesnt then shanks wins hand down



and he didn't knew Zoro beat those monkey  .... I give that to lack of knowledge for Oda and gave a 2nd chance to him

well ... will is a matter of what you want to protract ...

Mihawk is not really kingly ... my hopes are not high ... don't think that's unfair to say


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## Steven (Sep 17, 2019)

What?Shanks´ CoC can insta K.O. Marco?

Thats a new level of wank

Reactions: Like 2


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## Law (Sep 17, 2019)

They're equals or either is slightly stronger (extreme diff fight). Minimum top 5.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Quipchaque (Sep 17, 2019)

Red Admiral said:


> hmmm ... I think 10 is not enough ... more like
> 
> Shanks CoC = 99
> Shanks CoA =90~95
> ...



Yea as I said I don't care much about the numbers and the accuracy. Just wanted to give you my head canon what the skill ratio is for those two compared to each other and on their own.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kinjin (Sep 17, 2019)

Closing.

Reactions: Like 1


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