# Who is the strongest DBS character Gold Experience Requiem can beat?



## Dark Evangel (Dec 3, 2016)

How does this go?


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## Flashlight237 (Dec 3, 2016)

Anything you got going for Requiem?


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## lokoxDZz (Dec 3, 2016)

GER solos DBS noone in there have anything to do against it.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

If Giygas Zamasu became the entire future timeline/multiverse rather than just the universe (which I believe is what happened considering Zeno destroyed the entire timeline/multiverse to get rid of him) than GER shouldn't have the range to affect him.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> If Giygas Zamasu became the entire future timeline/multiverse rather than just the universe (which I believe is what happened considering Zeno destroyed the entire timeline/multiverse to get rid of him) than GER shouldn't have the range to affect him.



Nothing Zamasu can do is going to save it from GER.


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> Nothing Zamasu can do is going to save it from GER.



Can GER travel to different universes? And/or does it have the range to cover 12 universes?


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Can GER travel to different universes? And/or does it have the range to cover 12 universes?



Can Zamasu shrug off concept altering attacks? No, didn't think so. Can pure brute force beat GER? Nope. Can GER make all of Zamasu's actions null and void even after they happen? It can.

GER stomps.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

How is GER going to kill Zamazu exactly...

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> considering Zeno destroyed the entire timeline/multiverse to get rid of him


Not really as Zen'o and most of the other GoDs aren't known for their restraint. What he did was plain overkill.

Anyway, there seem to be varying interpretations on the scale GER operates nowadays but the longest standing belief is that anything above baseline universal should beat the stand. In that case, most of DBS' God-tiers  would be beyond it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Not really as Zen'o and most of the other GoDs aren't known for their restraint. What he did was plain overkill.



It's at least debatable Zamasu became the entire timeline. He was beginning to spread out into a different timeline before he was destroyed so it'd be weird for him to not be able to corrupt/become the other universes in the timeline he was already in IMO. 



Sablés said:


> Anyway, there seem to be varying interpretations on the scale GER operates nowadays but the longest standing belief is that anything above baseline universal should beat the stand. In that case, most of DBS' God-tiers  would be beyond it.



Alright.


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> How is GER going to kill Zamazu exactly...



Yeah. I don't think GERs ever used its ability on an non-corporeal being like what Fusion Zamasu became.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

No one in DBS is surviving reality warping.  And I already explained in the other thread that GER being multiversal is not beyond capacity of its showings. It doesn't matter how much energy your packing, if you have no resistance to concept altering attacks then is not going to save you from being lolnopped by GER.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> Can Zamasu shrug off concept altering attacks? No, didn't think so. Can pure brute force beat GER? Nope. Can GER make all of Zamasu's actions null and void even after they happen? It can.
> 
> GER stomps.



If GER doesn't have the range to effect 12 universes and can't travel to different universes even assuming GER can destroy a non corporeal being how would it destroy the entirety of a being that spans 12 universes? Wouldn't it only be able to destroy the universe it's in (which would only be a part of Fusion Zamasu in his Giygas form)?


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> It's at least debatable Zamasu became the entire timeline. He was beginning to spread out into a different timeline before he was destroyed so it'd be weird for him to not be able to corrupt/become the other universes in the timeline he was already in IMO.



Think GM brought up something about the time ring that made it easier for Zamasu to appear there as that was the same position where Black first appeared in the present. Still, that's obviously a very impressive feat and telling of Zamasu's range.



> Alright.


Eh, to be clear? That's simple the widest held belief, not necessarily the correct one since standards change quite a bit.

Rather than another unavoidable bitchfest, it'd be more productive to make a meta and get a consensus.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> If GER doesn't have the range to effect 12 universes and can't travel to different universes even assuming GER can destroy a non corporeal being how would it destroy the entirety of a being that spans 12 universes? Wouldn't it only be able to destroy the universe it's in (which would only be a part of Fusion Zamasu in his Giygas form)?



The same GER has the range to affect multiple universes, retroactively nullified universe spanning time erasure through multiple dimensions while not existing and can put anyone in DBS in an eternal death loop. What the fuck is Zamasu going to do about having his will or life turned to the value of zero? Go ahead, explain that.

If you have feats of anyone in DBS resisting a specialized form of reality warping and concept altering on GER's level, then be my guest and show it.

So once more: brute force doesn't accomplish jackshit against GER. Universe sized Zamasu? Cool, just makes him an easier target.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Think GM brought up something about the time ring that made it easier for Zamasu to appear there as that was the same position where Black first appeared in the present.



Eh.. that's iffy. Why would Fusion Zamasu suddenly gain the power of the time ring that was destroyed. Or did that inorganic object somehow fuse with Giygas Zamasu? I didn't really get that implication. It just seemed to me that Giygas Zamasu was spreading to the main timeline through sheer power.


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Worth noting that Zeno'o was still able to destroy a non-corporeal Zamasu through timelines.

Doubtfully because he wiped out the universe where Zamasu was stationed as even BoG Goku would be capable of that. Zamasu's lifeline being tied to the state of one universe would actually make him easier to kill.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> The same GER has the range to affect multiple universes, retroactively nullified universe spanning time erasure through multiple dimensions *while not existing* and can put anyone in DBS in an eternal death loop. What the fuck is Zamasu going to do about having his will or life turned to the value of zero? Go ahead, explain that.
> 
> If you have feats of anyone in DBS resisting a specialized form of reality warping and concept altering on GER's level, then be my guest and show it.
> 
> So once more: brute force doesn't accomplish jackshit against GER. Universe sized Zamasu? Cool, just makes him an easier target.



lol no. GER exist in a seperate dimension than the universe. Meaning King Crimson did not affect it with it's time deletion

Also it isn't turning Zamazu's life to zero. Because that will require overriding the Super Dragon Balls which made him into an abstract concept of "justice" after he lost his physical body.



Sablés said:


> Worth noting that Zeno'o was still able to destroy a non-corporeal Zamasu through timelines.
> 
> Doubtfully because he wiped out the universe where Zamasu was stationed as even BoG Goku would be capable of that. Zamasu's lifeline being tied to the state of one universe would actually make him easier to kill.



Now that part is actually confusing. Destroying the universe Zamasu resides in sounds good, but the fact that a combined attack from Goku, Vegeta & Trunks couldn't even phaze him implies otherwise. not to mention him exisiting in multiple timeline.

So i just assume that Zeno's ability is similar to Beerus's destruction, except much stronger obviously.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> The same GER has the range to affect multiple universes,



How many? If it's less than 12 he isn't affecting the entirety of Giygas Zamasu.



Fang said:


> retroactively nullified universe spanning time erasure through multiple dimensions while not existing and can put anyone in DBS in an eternal death loop.



Fusion Zamasu in his Giygas Form doesn't have a physical body for GER to punch. Looking it up... didn't the death loop that happened to Diavolo only occur after GER hit him with a punch flurry?



Fang said:


> What the fuck is Zamasu going to do about having his will or life turned to the value of zero? Go ahead, explain that.



Only a part/portion of him would be subject to that.



Fang said:


> If you have feats of anyone in DBS resisting a specialized form of reality warping and concept altering on GER's level, then be my guest and show it.



If GER only destroys one of the universes that are a part of Giygas Zamasu and can't travel to or reach the rest with his range what will he be able to do to him?



Fang said:


> So once more: *brute force doesn't accomplish jackshit against GER.* Universe sized Zamasu? Cool, just makes him an easier target.



That sounds kind of like NLF territory. Would GER solo Galactus as well going by that logic?


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

For the last fucking time

GER doesn't have to touch or physically hit you for you to be nullified to zero

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> How many?



At least two, but that's irrelevant because conventional DC doesn't mean jackshit to GER. Also multiple dimensions of time and space, while not existing.



> Fusion Zamasu in his Giygas Form doesn't have a physical body for GER to punch.



GER doesn't have to punch Zamasu to death. Are you going off dumb misinformation people have been spreading intentionally trying to alter how GER operates or works?



> Looking it up... didn't the death loop that happened to Diavolo only occur after GER hit him with a punch flurry?



Why does GER need to use punches? It was just a symbolic finish on Diavolo that Giorno has used in the same way in the past with Gold Experience against previous opponents with a muda muda muda barrage. This is akin to people arguing Dio or Diavolo need to shout of their Stands names to manipulate time.



> If GER only destroys one of the universes that are a part of Giygas Zamasu and can't travel to or reach the rest with his range what will he be able to do to him?



GER doesn't destroy universes. GER's power encompasses all ranges. That's why its acasual, that's why its not limited to time or space, that's why it goes through multiple dimensions and that's why it has the ability to affect on a conceptual level like turning a person's will and life to zero while their stuck in an never ending death loop. There is nothing Zamasu can do to prevent that at all.



> That sounds kind of like NLF territory.



Its not. Any multiversal who has sufficient exotic abilities and feats would be outside GER's ability to defeat.



> Would GER solo Galactus as well going by that logic?



That comparison doesn't work. Galactus is above anyone in DBS, Fusion Zamasu doesn't compare to Galactus who has incarnations existing in parallel concert across the entire Marvel multiverse. It'll work against Zamasu, it won't work against Galactus.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> That sounds kind of like NLF territory. Would GER solo Galactus as well going by that logic?




Except that GER does solo Galactus.


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## Keollyn (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> That sounds kind of like NLF territory. Would GER solo Galactus as well going by that logic?



Really bad example given Galactus doesn't fight exclusively with brute force.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SSBMonado (Dec 3, 2016)

FFS Toriyama just needs to write a villain with high level reality warping already, and then have the high tiers resist it by way of Ki (i.e. what Goku did against Hit's time stop)


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## Toaa (Dec 3, 2016)

...just wondering but what can ger actually do to zamasu?its doubtful he is even a thing much less having a mind or death associated with him.Thats why zeno destroyed everything zamasu was a virus he would keep spreading across all universes and timelines


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Just thought of something. GER can undo Giorno's death with its powers but would it be able to undo Giorno's death if his soul was erased by Beerus?


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Just thought of something. GER can undo Giorno's death with its powers but would it be able to undo Giorno's death if his soul was erased by Beerus?



>GIorno doesn't exist during the time erasure
>GER still doesn't give a darn

Beerus isn't doing anything and GER is fully sentient and independent of Giorno himself. So no, that won't make a difference. Giorno ceasing to exist didn't stop GER, erasing his soul won't make a difference on top of the fact that GER can just nullify that regardless.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

Like

literally

the first thing it did was nullify was Giorno's death

and I'm still seeing posts like this

Reactions: Agree 2


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## xenos5 (Dec 3, 2016)

Qinglong said:


> Like
> 
> literally
> 
> ...



I know that 

I was just thinking it might be harder to nullify the death of someone who has had their soul erased rather than them having just been killed.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't think dying from a soul fuck compares to dying from being erased from existence


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

>People overrating GER's nullifiy death ability again

Oh jesus fucking christ not this shit again 

Look, the shit GER did to Diavolo was not some almightly hax that defeats absolutely everything regardless of their resistances. It was more similar to BFR if anything. After GER protected Giorno from King Crimson, time resumed and Giorno used his Stand to *physically* pummel Diavolo to death. However Giorno was unaware that anything killed by GER experience an endless cycle of death due to the nature of the Stand.

Giorno had no knowledge or intention of the ability, and it only activated after Diavolo's death which is why they couldn't find his body afterwards even through they all saw him die. It does no bypass durability, or works instantly. It has never actually shown that. Anybody who argue otherwise won't even be able to post a single page to prove their point because there is none. It's all baseless assumption.

And i still see people claiming GER was erased from existance. Once again, it wasn't. GER exist outside of time and space by default, King Crimson could never touch it. To argue otherwise will be to stay that GER only exist in one dimension, which contradicts the manga.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2016)

1/10 thread


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

GER DOES NOT NEED TO PHYSICALLY HIT YOU TO WORK

THE ONLY REQUIREMENT IS BEING NULLIFIED

JFC

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Qinglong said:


> GER DOES NOT NEED TO PHYSICALLY HIT YOU TO WORK
> 
> THE ONLY REQUIREMENT IS BEING NULLIFIED
> 
> JFC



Your whole argument about GER not needing to hit you in order to work is the fact that it nullified KC, at a point in time mind you that Giorno, Mista and Trisha were frozen.

Now tell me, why did the infinite death loop only take place after time returned to normal and Diavolo was killed? Don't say "he was already dead" because we saw his body was still there and we know GER bfr's you from reality once killed by it.

I'm not arguing against GER's ability to protect Giorno, i'm calling out the bullshit about it being able to kill anything using the same method.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

Araki flat out describing how it works > this bullshit argument

the end

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Referring to the stat page because you have no on-panel feat? I knew you would.

Let's just ignore that we saw it take effect after Diavolo was killed, and not before. You should know we use hard feats around here Qing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

"I don't like it because it shows how full of shit my argument is"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

"it's a vague statement at best and completely contradicts the manga at worst but if it helps me wank my favorite verse i'll accept it  <3"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Your whole argument about GER not needing to hit you in order to work is the fact that it nullified KC, at a point in time mind you that Giorno, Mista and Trisha were frozen.
> 
> Now tell me, why did the infinite death loop only take place after time returned to normal and Diavolo was killed? Don't say "he was already dead" because we saw his body was still there and we know GER bfr's you from reality once killed by it.
> 
> I'm not arguing against GER's ability to protect Giorno, i'm calling out the bullshit about it being able to kill anything using the same method.


because GER nullified other shit without touching someone so why would he need to for 1 specific ability? that would be fucking stupid

His profile says he can turn pretty much anything to 0 so hes also not limited to just "will, actions, death" for nullification


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## Agent9149 (Dec 3, 2016)

Wrong post. Sorry.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

Stand name: Gold Experience Requiem
Stand user: Giorno Giovanna
*Destructive Power: None* *Speed: None Range: None
Durability:None Precision: None Developmental Potential: None*
Ability: After stabbed by the arrow, the Stand manifested a new ability: to revert the actions and willpower of the opponent to zero. Those who are struck by this ability will have their death also reverted to zero, making them experience death indefinitely (while not being able to die).

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> because GER nullified other shit without touching someone so why would he need to for 1 specific ability? that would be fucking stupid
> 
> *His profile says he can turn pretty much anything to 0 *so hes also not limited to just "will, actions, death" for nullification



It actually doesn't, you're claiming BS and i can post the page to prove it.


Emphasis on *opponent*. It makes it quite clear that GER is mainly a defensive Stand that can turn any attack against it's master to zero. That's what it says and that is what we saw in the manga.

However people are trying to twist that and claim that while doing so it also nullifies their death in synchrony. That is the assumption, it was never shown. It says if hit by GER that the death loop activate? And what did we see in the manga? it activating after Diavolo got punched to death.

It is an assumption that contradicts the manga.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Also shout out to Qing's broken link.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

This will be a bit rough because I did it in a hurry but using the panel posted at the top of this page:

Stand Name – “Gold Experience Requiem”
User – Giorno Giovanna

Destructive power – None

Speed – None

Range – None

Endurance – None

Precision – None

Development Potential – None

Ability: A stand power manifested due to the stand being pierced by the “arrow”. Things such as the actions and will of an opponent are completely reduced to zero.
As being struck by this power causes even death to be reduced to zero, they will continue to repeatedly die without end.

Note the "such as" (や is used, indicating an incomplete list).

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Qinglong said:


> This will be a bit rough because I did it in a hurry but using the panel posted at the top of this page:
> 
> Stand Name – “Gold Experience Requiem”
> User – Giorno Giovanna
> ...



Thanks for proving my point.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Qing, we know how the death loop operates. So answer my question. Why did Diavolo's body still exist in reality after his Stand was nullfied by GER?


That is literally all i am asking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

No I didn't

the kanji used actually says nothing about an attacking opponent

just an "enemy"

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Attacking isn't an action?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

thanks for having nothing to add since GER didnt punch Giorno out of nonexistence


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> thanks for having nothing to add since GER didnt punch Giorno out of nonexistence



Missing the point buddy.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

what point? you said he has to physically hit people for nullification to work, despite the first thing he did didnt require him to do so


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

They never found Diavolo's corpse after GER defeated KC.

lmao


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## Montanz (Dec 3, 2016)

Downplay by  technicality:

Even if GER could negate time erasure you can't argue he didn't require contact with it to achieve because dimensions are everywhere.

The theory of stands overlaying their dimensions to achieve this effect doesn't help the cause for him to not require contact to work, even if time is erased the dimension diavolo created would be everywhere and also within GER's reach.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> what point? you said he has to physically hit people for nullification to work, despite the first thing he did didnt require him to do so



No do not misquote me. I said he has to hit an opponent in order to nullifiy their death. Hell it's own stat page mentions it requiring to strike something and that is what we saw in the manga itself.

It doesn't have to physically touch somebody when it is protecting Giorno, again something that we saw in the manga and was not stated to be a requirement in GER's stat page.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> They never found Diavolo's corpse after GER defeated KC.
> 
> lmao



Correction, Giorno used GER to defeat Diavolo. That was a conscious action on his behalf and we even saw Mista & Trisha react to it. Diavolo body was still there before the fact and didn't vanish until after his death.


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

IIRC, There is a stat description that paints Star Platinum: TW as the most powerful and invincible stand in SO (assuming it was legit) and Araki has supposedly claimed it before.

In which case, they aren't infallible.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> IIRC, There is a stat description that paints Star Platinum: TW as the most powerful and invincible stand in SO (assuming it was legit) and Araki has supposedly claimed it before.
> 
> In which case, they aren't infallible.



And so? That's the only time its claimed and we all have the common sense to know The World or Star Patinum: The World (restored after they get Jotaro's Stand disc back from gay priest) that it clearly isn't true given GER is above anything in JoJo. In fact Pintsize made this nonsense argument years and years ago to claim GER was inferior to Star Platinum with the very same belief.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 3, 2016)

Montanz said:


> Downplay by  technicality:
> 
> Even if GER could negate time erasure you can't argue he didn't require contact with it to achieve because dimensions are everywhere.
> 
> The theory of stands overlaying their dimensions to achieve this effect doesn't help the cause for him to not require contact to work, even if time is erased the dimension diavolo created would be everywhere and also within GER's reach.


That's a good point. 
Also, if GER doesn't need to touch his target to erase it, then exactly what was the point of the mudamudamdua against Divaolo?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

That's the point

The stat description and the author CAN (*hint hint*) be liable to errors so they aren't the end to a debate if there's on-panel feats or context within the manga disputing whatever claims they've made. This isn't new.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> That's a good point.
> Also, if GER doesn't need to touch his target to erase it, then exactly what was the point of the mudamudamdua against Divaolo?



I already explained it was a symbolic beatdown. Also GER doesn't "erase" its targets.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

"Symbolic Beatdown"

Ok Fang

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

because Giorno was in control of it then and didnt know its abilities, so he used his classic mudamuda to finish him off.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> because Giorno was in control of it then and didnt know its abilities, so he used his classic mudamuda to finish him off.



Then why didn't GER just kill Diavolo while it was negating KC? What was the point of waiting for Giorno to strike him? And no you can't say it wanted Giorno to have the final blow because it still trapped Diavolo in the loop regardless.

There is nothing that suggest that GER can just simply dump people into the loop as easily as it is to negate actions towards Giorno. The two abilities are similar yes but the mechanics behind them work differently. Even the stat page emphasize on being hit or struck when it comes to the death cycle, which it does not do while explaining how it can turn actions and will into zero.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

They are the same damn ability 

This is third grade reading comprehension

Reactions: Like 2


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

>One ability makes it so something never happened
>One ability makes something cease to exist
>The same thing

Still waiting on that scan Qing

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

literally

first page

they are the same thing


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

No, they are different effects from the same ability. Like how Iihiko's ID nullifies damage but his attacks cause permanent damage for example.

But this whole argument can be settled if you simply posted a single panel of GER preforming the death loop without making contact.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> >One ability makes it so something never happened
> >One ability makes something cease to exist
> >The same thing
> 
> Still waiting on that scan Qing


Something never happening is the same as something not existing.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Something never happening is the same as something not existing.



Not really. One is an reaction to an action that takes place before, the other is an effect of an action is took place after.

If they were the same thing then GER would have been nullifying KC for eternity.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

This is the exact same argument Crezyj was trying to use on spergbattles against GER

and even they saw through it

even


spergbattles


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Shouldn't the fact that SB agree with you be a warning flag instead...


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

More like crezyj's arguments are so bad even SB can call them out for the bullshit they are

and he used this exact same argument not even 3 days ago here

do you really want to agree with crezyj Freddie

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> And no you can't say it wanted Giorno to have the final blow because it still trapped Diavolo in the loop regardless.


I suggest you read it again, it trapped Diavolo in a loop the instant he made an offensive action outside of time itself. Which makes your eternity comment funny as fuck.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

crazy has nothing to do with it. I'm simply saying that the statement implies that the loop only works once GER strikes it's target and the manga helps my argument.

Your argument is based on the assumption that because they derive from the same ability that the mechanics are the same all around. Which you can not prove

Qing, i'm simply asking for a single panel of GER working the you say. Not a stat page that can be open for interpretation like my opinion, or even Sables. Quit stone walling me.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I suggest you read it again, it trapped Diavolo in a loop the instant he made an offensive action outside of time itself. Which makes your eternity comment funny as fuck.



Yes, after Diavolo was killed, not before. Do try to follow up.

We know for a fact that Diavolo was not trapped before KC ability was removed because otherwise the main party wouldn't have been ability to react to anything.


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Yes, after Diavolo was killed, not before. Do try to follow up.
> We know for a fact that* Diavolo was not trapped before KC ability was removed because otherwise the main party wouldn't have been ability to react to anything.*


I think this is you not understanding how king crimson works let alone GER.


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## Keollyn (Dec 3, 2016)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> Something never happening is the same as something not existing.



The way Freddie described it in the reply you quoted, no, they would not be the same thing.

Just responding to that, have no opinion or comment on anything else here, so don't take this as me commenting on the actual ability.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

Keollyn said:


> The way Freddie described it in the reply you quoted, no, they would not be the same thing.
> 
> Just responding to that, have no opinion or comment on anything else here, so don't take this as me commenting on the actual ability.



They are in the post I made showing the original scans in both chinese and the japanese one by Thanato

Original Japanese



"Ability: A stand power manifested due to the stand being pierced by the “arrow”. Things *such as* the actions and will of an opponent are completely reduced to zero.
As being struck by this power causes even death to be reduced to zero, they will continue to repeatedly die without end.

*Note the "such as" (や) is used, indicating an incomplete list).


Chinese



"Ability: After stabbed by the arrow, the Stand manifested a new ability: to revert the actions and willpower of the opponent to zero. Those who are struck by this ability will have their death also reverted to zero, making them experience death indefinitely (while not being able to die)."

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Freddie those are clearly the same lol.

I'd understand if they used the ability in different context but that description makes no distinction. It doesn't differentiate the ability that negates will and action from the death loop.

I don't know about the on-panel feat but going by the text alone...


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## SSBMonado (Dec 3, 2016)

Qinglong said:


> "Ability: A stand power manifested due to the stand being pierced by the “arrow”. Things *such as* the actions and will of an opponent are completely reduced to zero.
> As being struck by this power causes even death to be reduced to zero, they will continue to repeatedly die without end.


So essentially what this means is that what GER negated wasn't Gio's death, but rather Diavolo's actions that led to him dying. That sound about right?


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## Keollyn (Dec 3, 2016)

I wasn't commenting towards the actual ability, as I'm not following the debate well enough to respond. I just found that specific comment to be incorrect based _solely_ on what Freddie said.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

which is totally why his hands are uninjured because those lead to his death


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> So essentially what this means is that what GER negated wasn't Gio's death, but rather Diavolo's actions that led to him dying. That sound about right?



GIorno and everyone else didn't exist when KC did the time erasure. What it means is regardless of an opponent taking action even before GER, it can always make so it never happened, which is why it nullifies and reduces events to 0.


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## Xhominid (Dec 3, 2016)

Okay, okay, I honestly gotta ask this question because it's non-canon, but then people still use it as a measuring stick:

If GER doesn't need to touch someone to use it's ability, then:

1. Why the fuck in the newest JoJo game, didn't GER just fuck up Ascension Dio at any point in time with it's ability?

2. World Over Heaven seems to specifically work if either Dio or The World(I'm seriously not saying the whole thing twice over lol) touches what they want to affect with their hands...so looking past that it KINDA makes sense that the World Over Heaven can overwrite GER's ability because "Fuck your reality, it's mine" kinda says fuck you to Reducing something back to Zero...but why didn't GER didn't just say fuck you and did the ability after the beatdown?

And that still doesn't explain Time shenanigans can fuck up GER despite the fact(Bites The Dust seems to work just fine according to All Star Battle considering it does show off GER working within Stairway to Heaven).

Either GER is not as powerful as everyone makes it out to be or the author regretted it as badly as he did with Fugo's(that Part 5 guy...) and weakened it a bit...that or simple because the plot demands it?


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Because the game is non-canon.


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## Xhominid (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> Because the game is non-canon.



So basically the answer is plot? Then why do people still say The World Over Heaven > Golden Experience Requiem?

By the very nature of GER, NOTHING should work it ever because it's very ability might as well be the equivalent of a CONCEPT, not even an "attack" because there is no attack.

Even Overwriting Reality, changing the script or anything else would do jack of shit against an ability that was specifically made like Golden Experience Requiem's. I'm not even joking anymore, if it can effect dimensions, universes, etc. all at once, then it's no longer an ability, it's basically a concept, an abstract. And nothing past beings that can affect concepts and abstracts can do anything to GER in the slightest by the very definition of it's ability.

I may be stretching it massively, but that's what I'm getting here.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Because its a non-canon game that doesn't obey or follow the rules of the canon material but some people think it somehow also supersedes the source material? That's my take on it.


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## Xhominid (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> Because its a non-canon game that doesn't obey or follow the rules of the canon material but some people think it somehow also supersedes the source material? That's my take on it.



Except people on ODB did use Heaven Ascension Dio seriously when the game came out for atleast 2-3 months.


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

People have used GT chars for years

doesn't stop them from not being canon

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Xhominid (Dec 3, 2016)

Alright, just wanting to toss that out there because it was bugging me.


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## Montanz (Dec 3, 2016)

I'd say he stops at beerus, he is half of multiversal since he + champa can threaten 2 universes which in turn have 1 afterlife and a kaioshin realm.

If not he definitly stops at Zamasu.

Not buying multi universal GER even if the speculation of KC creating a new universe just for erasing 10 seconds of time is legit, GER was only shown to negate the linking factor which was the time erase and whatever future universe that would come after that would be negated by extension without need of GER's intervention


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Don't really care what you buy into or not, the fact is nothing in DBS can withstand what GER can do and Beerus and other top tiers are no exception. You lost your arguments earlier, when I rebuked them several times over.


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## lokoxDZz (Dec 3, 2016)

Beerus can destroy a infinite number of universes that he would still loses this, its not about raw power its about hax.


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

lokoxDZz said:


> Beerus can destroy a infinite number of universes that he would still loses this, its not about raw power its about hax.



Zamasu's essence was infecting timelines years in the past and was imposing his will on a universe at least twice larger than the norm.. As I recall, that's beyond GER on both aspects of its abilities.

Zen'O was capable of defying the Super DB's reality warping and killed Zamasu in spite of the immortality granted to him yet the man himself tanked the same blast at ground zero.

Far weaker Gods like Beerus can destroy non-corporeal beings and he wouldn't be able to affect said immortals.

DB has stopped playing the "let's kick the door and see if it breaks open" game.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

That makes no difference against GER.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Perpetrator Rex (Dec 3, 2016)

Why is GER even allowed in debates. There isn't even a consensus on the limits of his power? Unless there is and there are just 3 or 4 people who refuse to accept it?

Every debate is just going to boil down to arguing about how his powers work.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

>no limits
> Me and Fang have given people who would beat it in other threads

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

whatever u say m8

zamasu counters its specifications on every level.

scale? Zamasu > GER
will and action? zamasu > GER
everything else? zamasu >>> GER


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Unlosing Ranger said:


> I think this is you not understanding how king crimson works let alone GER.



UR just stop, please. You do realize nobody keep memories of the time in between when KC activates right?

Fact is time was unaffected when Diavolo died, which is *after* GER negated KC. That means GER did not nullifily KC and Diavolo's death simultaneously which means there is no proof that GER can preform the latter without contact.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> whatever u say m8
> 
> zamasu counters its specifications on every level.
> 
> ...



>Scale
GER
>Will
GER
>Everything else
GER

Wrong again Sables.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

how the fuck do you even scale will and actions between characters Sables 

anyway he cant resist GERs hax since dragonball is shit when it comes to stuff like that


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Stone-walling with no evidence to back up GER ever being shown to affect a conceptual being whose influence spans to a larger scale than anything in JJBA.

>everything else

GER's  DC and durability arguably not even reaching town-level
Speed, a relatively pitiful 100s Cs (if that?) compared to Zamasu's trillions-quadrillions.

What a joke.



OneSimpleAnime said:


> how the fuck do you even scale will and actions between characters Sables



It works quite nicely here because Zamasu was *literally *imposing his will/justice on the universe by becoming one with it therefore its something we can actually quantify here to a marked extent.

>Said universe is far larger than JJBAs
>Said influence was also infecting the past years before.

GER has nothing on him but wank.

Reactions: Informative 2 | Dislike 2


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## Oomura Yoshitsugu (Dec 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> how the fuck do you even scale will and actions between characters Sables
> 
> anyway he cant resist GERs hax since dragonball is shit when it comes to stuff like that



Well, his mind/will had expanded/merged with the universe. It's why it was agreed he would have insane mental resistance.

Also, isn't that appeal to tradition?


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> GER's  DC and durability arguably not even reaching town-level



Not even that. It has no dc or durability

It's only method of defending itself is an ability that while is one of the greatest defenses you can have, it's offense leaves much to be desired in comparison.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Stone-walling with no evidence to back up GER ever being shown to affect a conceptual being whose influence spans to a larger scale than anything in JJBA.



You are stonewalling as bad as Freddie is, which is ironic.

>Zamasu
>conceptual being

Hilarious.



> >everything else
> 
> GER's  DC and durability arguably not even reaching town-level



GER's powers don't focus on conventional DC. Try again.



> Speed, a relatively pitiful 100s Cs (if that?) compared to Zamasu's trillions-quadrillions.
> 
> What a joke.



>stand that has infinite reactions because its outside of time and space
>bringing up speed

Are you done shitposting?



> It works quite nicely here because Zamasu was *literally *imposing his will/justice on the universe by becoming one with it therefore its something we can actually quantify here to a marked extent.



You can't equate willpower or quantify reality warping of abstract concepts with one guy simply becoming one with the universe, are you on crack? Hell GER affected more then one universe with its powers. 1+1 > 1.



> >Said universe is far larger than JJBAs



D4C says you're wrong.



> >Said influence was also infecting the past years later.



>affecting different timelines
>in the same universe
>equivalent to being above time itself
>while not even existing

Uh uh.



> GER has nothing on him but wank.



Gr8 b8 m8.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 3, 2016)

>Claims GER is outside time & space
>Proceeds to claim it was affected by an ability that only works on time and space

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Imagine (Dec 3, 2016)

GER threads


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

>bringing up speed
>on something that activates after an action happens and lolnopes it

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

He's bringing up speed as if its relevant to a stand that has no issue operating when time literally doesn't exist.

I'm convinced he's just pretending to be nonsensical.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 2


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> >Zamasu
> >conceptual being
> 
> Hilarious.



Nah, _this _is stone-walling

Not positing an argument for why you believe something cannot be, just that it can't. A usual tactic I've seen for you when you can't back up your claims worth a damn.



> GER's powers don't focus on conventional DC. Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. Fucking. Shit.

Thanks Tips

That's why I said everything *else*. Indicating everything asides from the core abilities  I had already listed

Supreme comprehension as usual.

Zeno Goku and Trunks were also able to function outside the erased time and space. Infinite speed DB get. Seriously, we don't even use this for Dialga Palkia GIratina and Arceus that literally embody and create these concepts. Why does GER all of a sudden become the exception?




> You can't equate willpower or quantify reality warping of abstract concepts with one guy simply becoming one with the universe, are you on crack?



Please post reasons why not?

If Zamasu becomes one with the universe, his conscience and mental cognition go with it as well. It was even agreed that he gains mental resistance as a result of his form in the OBD.




> Hell GER affected more then one universe with its powers. 1+1 > 1.



Don't care for whatever assumption you're pushing here but even then it wouldn't fly.

DB's universe =/= regular universe

It includes the realm of the kais and the other world. All of which make up more than 2x the size of the observable universe IRL.

And _even then _Zamasu was spreading all the way into..what? Whatever year difference there is between Trunks' time and the present



> D4C says you're wrong.



>Says DB universe is larger than JJBA's universe
>He brings up alternate dimensions rather than the universe GER has shown to affect and is therefore relevant to the discussion

Its almost like you intentionally misread my posts.

Existing outside of time and space =/= Being above time and space. The point is that the two do not have to interact, not that one supersedes the other. Are you on crack?

Its  even relevant regardless.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

okay A) Zamasu isnt fucking conceptual and him becoming Giygas isnt him becoming "justice" or some bullshit. all he did was become omnipresent. in that universe.

B) it might guve him resistance to mindfuck but like that actually matters when GER just sets his ass to 0

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Nah, _this _is stone-walling



Nah, you're the quintessential classic example of this, kiddo.



> Not positing an argument for why you believe something cannot be, just that it can't. A usual tactic I've seen for you when you can't back up your claims worth a damn.



Typical lies. Go ahead and prove how Zamasu is a conceptual being. Does he represent an Abstract concept like the Cosmic in Marvel or DC do? Go ahead, quantify it. I'll keep waiting forever for your blustering nonsense with more with this crap.



> No. Fucking. Shit.
> 
> Thanks Tips



Learn to read, skippy.



> That's why I said everything *else*. Indicating everything asides from the core abilities  I had already listed
> 
> Supreme comprehension as usual.



Are you talking about reading comprehension? One has affected more then the other. Protip: its not Zamasu and conventional DC won't do jackshit against GER.

"Oh he merged with the universe!"

So what, it just makes him one gigantic stationary target. Get over it.



> Please post reasons why not?



Post the reasons why he would.



> If Zamasu becomes one with the universe, his conscience and mental cognition go with it as well. It was even agreed that he gains mental resistance as a result of his form in the OBD.



How the fuck does his mental cognition go up?

"It was agreed he gains mental resistance"

Bullshit. Mental resistance won't make a lick of difference against how GER powers operate or work. Do you think GER needs to mind-fuck people to death to use its death loop ability? It won't give him any protection against having his life or death reduced to zero or willpower completely fucked over.



> Don't care for whatever assumption you're pushing here but even then it wouldn't fly.



Protip: what you think is irrelevant to what is going to go down, so it doesn't matter.



> DB's universe =/= regular universe



JJBA universe > regular universe.



> t includes the realm of the kais and the other world. Both of which make up more than 2x the size of the observable universe IRL.



So what? Physical size is no defense against GER.



> And _even then _Zamasu was spreading all the way into..what? Whatever year difference there is between Trunks' time and the present



Irrelevant. GER isn't bound by time, space, casuality, or anything else. That makes zero difference. Merging in different timelines that make up the same fucking universe is no defense against it.



> >Says DB universe is larger than JJBA's universe
> >He brings up alternate dimensions rather than the universe GER has shown to affect



>Parallel worlds that are utilized by D4C
>"Alternate dimensions"

Now this is grasping at straws.



> Its almost like you intentionally misread my posts.



Nope.



> Existing outside of time and space =/= Being above time and space. The point is that the two do not interact, not that one supersedes the other. Are you on crack?



>One can affect more then one universe as well as not being bound and above time and space
>The other merges with it
"Just because your bullet can go through a metal vest doesn't mean it'll work against MY metal vest"

Are you high?



> Its  even relevant regardless.



Its not, but keep on trying.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Fang said:


> Nah, you're the quintessential classic example of this, kiddo.
> 
> 
> 
> Typical lies. Go ahead and prove how Zamasu is a conceptual being. Does he represent an Abstract concept like the Cosmic in Marvel or DC do? Go ahead, quantify it. I'll keep waiting forever for your blustering nonsense with more with this crap.



If I've used the term incorrectly then I concede

But then tell me, how else do you describe a conscience who became the universe?




> Are you talking about reading comprehension? One has affected more then the other. Protip: its not Zamasu and conventional DC won't do jackshit against GER.



Let's backtrack shall we?

My post



> *scale? Zamasu > GER
> will and action? zamasu > GER*
> everything else? zamasu >>> GER



Bolded are GER's core abilities to negate everything to zero. Latter refers to everything outside these abilities.

In other words: Stats, Skill  Experience etc

Your post.



> >Everything else
> GER



Prove GER has superior traditional DC.
Prove GER has superior traditional Durability
Prove GER has superior traditional speed

You can't because they're all affirmatively below Zamasu and as Freddie's quoted, practically non-existent even within JJBAverse. The point of that quote was to emphasize that should Zamasu resist GER's core effects, it has no chance in a comparison of stats.

Please don't strawman this as "irrelevant". Of course its irrelevant but you are the one who decided to push this nonsense rather than just letting it go.



> How the fuck does his mental cognition go up?



He is a living universe.



> Bullshit. Mental resistance won't make a lick of difference against how GER powers operate or work. Do you think GER needs to mind-fuck people to death to use its death loop ability? It won't give him any protection against having his life or death reduced to zero or willpower completely fucked over.



GER's ability to negate action and trap others into death loops is handled by the scale of the ability. Anything beyond universal in scope (not necessarily DC) isn't getting affected by it. Willpower on the other hand can be resisted by someone who is in the position to show sufficient resistance.



> JJBA universe > regular universe.





> >Parallel worlds that are utilized by D4C
> >"Alternate dimensions"



D4C affects dimensions.



Regardless, the issue is that its outside of GER's scope



> So what? Physical size is no defense against GER.



How can Zamasu's final form be considered a physical entity? The whole point of that episode was that his material body had been eviscerated and all that was left was his conscience.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Dislike 2


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## Sablés (Dec 3, 2016)

Imagine said:


> GER threads


Its honestly not worth the trouble getting into.

I'm out.

edit:



OneSimpleAnime said:


> okay A) Zamasu isnt fucking conceptual and him becoming Giygas isnt him becoming "justice" or some bullshit. all he did was become omnipresent. in that universe.



Just this. I'm parroting what was said in the anime as legitimate.


Which i interpreted as fucking over the universal order like a virus given time.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Its honestly not worth the trouble getting into.
> 
> I'm out.
> 
> ...


i think that was more vague because i dont think Zeno could destroy and abstract concept, even by destroying the multiverse. 

its more like he became the universe itself anyway, not just one concept


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

Sablés said:


> If I've used the term incorrectly then I concede
> 
> But then tell me, how else do you describe a conscience who became the universe?



Tell me how that makes him a conceptual being. I asked you earlier, how and what does he represent? Is he literally tied to some form of concept or abstraction? If not then he isn't a conceptual being. He's just physically omnipresent with space-time. That's it.



> Let's backtrack shall we?
> 
> My post



>Scale

Not above or beyond GER. King Crimson's universal time skipping and side effect ability of erasing the present universe and jumping into a temporal future version in another was stopped by GER.

>Will and action

Not above or even eqivalent to GER. When Zamasu fucks over concepts, he'll have parity, otherwise he's inferior.

>Everything else

GER sans size is superior. It warps reality, it removes willpower, it removes life and death, it is beyond time and space on a multiversal level if not minimum range. No amount of mental resistance is going to save Zamasu from its powers and their effects on his life.



> Bolded are GER's core abilities to negate everything to zero.



I covered this in the above post.



> Latter refers to everything outside these abilities.
> 
> In other words: Stats, Skill  Experience etc



Nonsense. Stats don't make a lick of difference when it can remove or nullify concepts like I already mentioned repeatedly: life, death, reality, time, space, non-existence, causality, and so on.



> Your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove GER has superior traditional DC.



You keep miscomprehending when I said GER does not focus on outright DC.



> Prove GER has superior traditional Durability



It doesn't need durability when it negated being non-existence in the first place.



> Prove GER has superior traditional speed



It doesn't need speed when when time is irrelevant to it and didn't exist even as a concept temporarily. It is completely outside of casuality so just like traditional DC or traditional durability, they are not factors in anything to GER. So GER has infinite reactions, and nothing Zamasu can do can bypass or circumvent this.



> You can't because they're all affirmatively below Zamasu and as Freddie's quoted, practically non-existent even within JJBAverse.



Utterly wrong. Freddie has proven repeatedly he has no idea what he's talking about or how GER operates as much as you don't know how it works either. GER showings are all superior and beyond Zamasu in any incarnation can do or achieve parity against.



> The point of that quote was to emphasize that should Zamasu resist GER's core effects, it has no chance in a comparison of stats.



Its a moot point because Zamasu *will not *resist GER's abilities or powers to begin with. Physical stats are irrelevant because GER does it thing on concepts and abstract abilities, not traditional power level nonsense.



> Please don't strawman this as "irrelevant". Of course its irrelevant but you are the one who decided to push this nonsense rather than just letting it go.



Don't pull my leg. You are in no position to talk about strawmans when your citing Freddie as your trump card, a poster who has exhaustively shown to have no idea what he's talking about and a history of disingenuous claims in this very thread as Qing and others have pointed out repeatedly when explaining GER powers, even with the correct translations from TS repeatedly attested here.



> He is a living universe.



And this means little and gives no defense against GER.



> GER's ability to negate action and trap others into death loops is handled by the scale of the ability. Anything beyond universal in scope (not necessarily DC) isn't getting affected by it.



GER is beyond universal as I have exhaustively explained to others repeatedly in this thread several times over. That's your repeated failing in comprehending this fact.



> Willpower on the other hand can be resisted by someone who is in the position to show sufficient resistance.



No to this for two very different reasons. GER is transforming its target willpower to zero. There is no resisting this by someone on Zamasu's level. It is not a telepathic attack, it something that directly bypasses conventional defenses and durability. Just like Rohan's Heaven's Door is an exotic form of both soul-manipulation, specialized reality warping, and mind-manipulation that traditional mental resistance can't defend against, being a living universe gives no defense against having your willpower *taken from you. *There is no defense against that traditionally.




> D4C affects dimensions.



Those "dimensions" are other parallel worlds that exist along side the main universe in SBR. As in other universes. That simple.



> Regardless, the issue is that its outside of GER's scope



It is not. GER is not limited in influencing only a single universe with its power as it showed in Part 5.



> How can Zamasu's final form be considered a physical entity? The whole point of that episode was that his material body had been eviscerated and all that was left was his conscience.



How does that make a difference? In-corporeality makes zero difference against GER. Zamasu is getting fucked side wise in any confrontation with GER. He has no defense against having his will or life or death being taken and turned to zero by Gold Experience Requiem.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

D4C lets him pull Valentines from alternate universes to his own, like seriously? Am I being trolled here?


Like, literally

並行世界から来たディエゴ_Heikō Sekai kara Kita Diego

Diego from Another World/Universe_

Reactions: Winner 1 | Dislike 1


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## Montanz (Dec 3, 2016)

Did GER actually display the ability to reach infinite alternate universes with his power and I mean the ones D4C pull his shit from, because I don't recall that ever happening.

I mean you speculated that GER is multiversal from negating KC's bullshit but extending that into infinitely multiversal range just comes across as wank.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Qinglong (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't even care about the multiversal argument (it is multi-dimensional in range at the minimum), these threads are showing a fundamental lack of understanding how stands work or deliberate trolling

and considering two of the members involved, I am going with the latter

Reactions: Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

No one is talking about GER being infinitely multiversal, what's with this projection of saying things that people never said in GER's defense in the first place? It doesn't even need that to curbstomp D4C in a direct match up.  So no, I never "extended that" from his showings against KC at any point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Montanz (Dec 3, 2016)

When you said jojoverse has infinite dimensions (unviverses whatever, these terms are interchangeable in fiction) higher than DBS you seemed to be implying GER would be able to fuck it all up, or maybe I misinterpreted it.


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## Fang (Dec 3, 2016)

I never implied any of that. And the comment was regarding D4C's abilities. Dude, you need to seriously stop this habit of shifting statements I make and putting words in my mouth.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

All this arguing about GER's power, what the Hell can he do to kill Botamo, let alone anyone above him?

And the liberties being taken with some descriptions of GER's power flies in the face of the same logic making Aizen and Ywhach unbeatable. Bias is clearly showing.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> All this argument about GER's power, what the Hell can he do to kill Botamo, let alone anyone above him?





GER's abilities are a bit difficult for me to understand but even I can tell you that Botamo being able to send attacks to a different dimension won't protect him against casuality manipulation.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> GER's abilities are a bit difficult for me to understand but even I can tell you that Botamo being able to send attacks to a different dimension won't protect him against casuality manipulation.


I wasn't even thinkning about Botamo's power's. He was just a random Super character I thought of. 

How is causality going to be manipulated to kill Botamo or anyone? Hell, replace Botamo with Krillin. How is he going to kill Krillin?


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> I wasn't even thinkning about Botamo's power's. He was just a random Super character I thought of.
> 
> How is causality going to be manipulated to kill Botamo or anyone? Hell, replace Botamo with Krillin. How is he going to kill Krillin?



Durability doesn't matter to casuality manipulation. It's pretty much reality warping that you need a specific resistance to.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Durability doesn't matter to casuality manipulation. It's pretty much reality warping that you need a specific resistance to.


I know that. What I'm asking is, what type of reality warping is he doing? Is he warping Krillin out of existence? Is he making Krillin drop dead? What is he doing? How does the Stand kill people?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

turning his everything to 0


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

What the Hell does that even mean?

Laughing at a Saiyan in a "Death Loop"? Zankais for days.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

he can turn things (like will or action, among other things) to 0, nullifying them completely


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

And that KILLS, how? And how in the Hell would a Stand nullify something like KI to 0?


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

You dont have to always kill to obtain victory. Being a nice looking vegetable has its visual perks.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

And how does he make Krillin a vegetable? Explain yourselves.


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

By the fact that he'd be as lifeless as a coma patient.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

HOW?!?! WTF?!!


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

Okay, I'm not holding your hand through this process.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

can you not read


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

"He makes Krillin a vegetable."

"How?"

"Because."

 "Because what?"

"I'm not explaining it to you."

Sounds to me like you just don't like Kriilin.


OneSimpleAnime said:


> can you not read


I thought I could. Now explain it to me, one more time. I promise I'll read it.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

read. the thread. its been explained idk how many times what GER does


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

Thread only explains how he MAY avoids losing. Doesn't even detail, at all, how he actually wins.


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## Montanz (Dec 4, 2016)

If it's really a matter of someone being multiversal or not to a higher degree I say he stops at zamasu.
He is most likely multiversal given:

- His Immortaility granted by shenron whose initial appearance could be seen affecting two universes
Beerus himself stated earlier it could be used to destroy the "world", whenever this word is used they are usually talking about the 12 universes and not just a single one.

if not, the context in which the  statement is made  at least  means it is beyond Beerus' capabilities whom in combination with champa can destroy two universes.

-Zamasu threatening to go back into the main timeline  is not just  proof of him affecting two universes, each alternate timeline in DBS contains a set of 12 universes at least, what he demonstrated here was an inter-multiversal range

- Zeno pretty much had to completely erase the whole future timeline to get rid of him for good, someone may argue this could've been overkill but given that combined attacks from three universals+ didn't even phase him before his essence even spread beyond the earth suggests that was not completely unwarranted.

with that established we also know his essence is spread through all of space time so even if GER can manage to nullify attacks from two universes he has no business doing anything to someone who could affect 12 universes or at minimum two which individually are much larger than our own and include an afterlife and an outisde realm 1/10th of its size.

Reactions: Like 2


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Thread only explains how he MAY avoids losing. Doesn't even detail, at all, how he actually wins.


FFS.

Fine. Casuality manipulation allows GER to place a character into a death loop. He doesn't have to kill the character to induce it. He just places them in it.

Simple enough for you?


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

If you dont know that losing all will to do anything is the equivalent to being in a vegetable state, you need not be on this forum, but instead, in a classroom.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> FFS.
> 
> Fine. Casuality manipulation allows GER to place a character into a death loop. He doesn't have to kill the character to induce it. He just places them in it.
> 
> Simple enough for you?


What kind of a "death loop" is going to kill Krillin? The only death loop I have seen was Diavolo getting killed by a bunch of regular human shit. Shit that would not kill Krillin.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> What kind of a "death loop" is going to kill Krillin? The only death loop I have seen was Diavolo getting killed by a bunch of regular human shit. Shit that would not kill Krillin.



It doesn't matter if Krillin or whatever dragonball character wouldn't normally die to hobo shanking. GER manipulates casuality so that a character will die over and over again whatever the method. It doesn't matter what action you take you die after a certain amount of time in the death loop and are reset over and over each time you die.

You become pretty much DESTINED to die. A fixed point in time that repeats endlessly.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> It doesn't matter if Krillin or whatever dragonball character wouldn't normally die to hobo shanking. GER manipulates casuality so that a character will die over and over again whatever the method. It doesn't matter what action you take you die after a certain amount of time in the death loop and are reset over and over each time you die.
> 
> You become pretty much DESTINED to die. A fixed point in time that repeats endlessly.


Thank you Xenos, for actually explaining this shit, man. And what are the limits of this?


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Thank you Xenos for actually explaining this shit, man. And what are the limits of this?



The limit is you have to have a specific resistance to the type of casuality manipulation GER uses. Basically have a certain type of acausality.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> The limit is you have to have a specific resistance to the type of casuality manipulation GER uses. Basically have a certain type of acausality.



So Kumagawa > GER?


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> The limit is you have to have a specific resistance to the type of casuality manipulation GER uses. Basically have a certain type of acausality.


And how does his hax override someone's hax? If he makes you destined to die, but you are like Zamasu and are immortal, how does that work?


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> And how does his hax override someone's hax? If he makes you destined to die, but you are like Zamasu and are immortal, how does that work?



You're probably still stuck in the loop but you just get endlessly attacked rather than endlessly killed.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> So Kumagawa > GER?



All Fiction allows for Kumagawa to negate his own death right? So he still dies. He can still pretty much be placed in a death loop. And he's never really been shown negating reality warping on the level of GER's death loop has he? So he'd just be stuck in there like most characters would be.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> You're probably still stuck in the loop but you just get endlessly attacked rather than endlessly killed.


Isn't Zamasu's immortality acasual?


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## Unlosing Ranger (Dec 4, 2016)

Considering that fever's and heart viruses can kill still...


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Isn't Zamasu's immortality acasual?



Nope. He needs the time ring to be acasual and even then the type of acausality the time ring grants isn't the type that would let you resist causality manipulation.


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> Nope. He needs the time ring to be acasual and even then the type of acausality the time ring grants isn't the type that would let you resist causality manipulation.


That's Black. I'm talking about Zamasu. He was erased in the past by Beerus, but alive in the future anyway, due to the SDBs immortality.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 4, 2016)

Someone brought up a good point earlier: Why DON'T we give "infinite speed" or whatever to DBS top tiers based on Zeno, Goku and Trunks existing in the erased timeline?

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> That's Black. I'm talking about Zamasu. He was erased in the past by Beerus, but alive in the future anyway, due to the SDBs.



That was an entirely different Zamasu from a different timeline. Future Trunks timeline Zamasu never encountered Beerus. He maybe killed the Kai connected to Beerus with Black's help but never had direct contact.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> All Fiction allows for Kumagawa to negate his own death right? So he still dies. He can still pretty much be placed in a death loop. And he's never really been shown negating reality warping on the level of GER's death loop has he? So he'd just be stuck in there like most characters would be.



I was joking with my comment and didn't think you'll respond 

But to elaborate All Fiction is the mutation of a skill that warps cause & effect. Kumagawa doesn't just negate his death, he makes it as though the death never happened. He also negates actions, concepts, powers, memories, time and can even negate things that have been erased from reality and bring them back

It's the perfect counter for GER


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## Clutch (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> That was an entirely different Zamasu from a different timeline. Future Trunks timeline Zamasu never encountered Beerus. He maybe killed the Kai connected to Beerus with Black's help but never had direct contact.


Beerus said all Zamasu's in all timelines would be erased.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

SSBMonado said:


> Someone brought up a good point earlier: Why DON'T we give "infinite speed" or whatever to DBS top tiers based on Zeno, Goku and Trunks existing in the erased timeline?



Maybe Zeno could get it but it feels a bit too outlier-ish for Goku and Trunks to have that level of reaction speed (especially considering they were both in base when they went to the area where the future timeline used to exist).


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

ColumbianDrugLord said:


> Beerus said all Zamasu's in all timelines would be erased.



I don't remember him saying that really. And regardless the type of acausality that allows you to survive that is not the same as the type you'd need to resist GER's causality manipulation.


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## Freddy Mercury (Dec 4, 2016)

Xeno just say that Kumagawa in theory walls GER and i can sleep


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

Infinite speed Ronin Warriors sound fine to me.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Xeno just say that Kumagawa in theory walls GER and i can sleep



I'm certainly no Jojo expert and have just been trying to piece together how GER works from what's been said here. 

It's not really for me to say how it'd react against another esoteric ability like All Fiction. 

So sorry but I can't really give you that validation in good confidence.


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## Montanz (Dec 4, 2016)

Even if the feat is considered legit only Zeno benefits from that, Goku and Trunks were inside the timemachine which can remove itself from a temporal axis in the first place so it's not like you could argue the saiyans were moving in the non-existence themselves.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Xiammes (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> I don't remember him saying that really. And regardless the type of acausality that allows you to survive that is not the same as the type you'd need to resist GER's causality manipulation.




Beerus seemed pretty damn sure that it would wipe Goku Black from the future, Goku Black even said the time ring makes him immune to changes in to past like that. The time rings don't create alt timeliness, Goku Black is the Goku + Zamasu from the main timeline, so this was a actual timeloop until Beerus killed main timeline Zamasu, making another timeline.

So we can assume the Beerus attack should have killed Goku Black if he didn't have his time ring on.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

Xiammes said:


> Beerus seemed pretty damn sure that it would wipe Goku Black from the future, Goku Black even said the time ring makes him immune to changes in to past like that. The time rings don't create alt timeliness, Goku Black is the Goku + Zamasu from the main timeline, so this was a actual timeloop until Beerus killed main timeline Zamasu, making another timeline.
> 
> So we can assume the Beerus attack should have killed Goku Black if he didn't have his time ring on.



I meant I don't remember Beerus saying it would  kill ALL of the other Zamasus from different timelines. It only makes sense for Beerus to think it would kill the Zamasu who would eventually become Goku Black. But the Zamasu who originated from the Future Trunks timeline has no relation.


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## Xiammes (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> I meant I don't remember Beerus saying it would  kill ALL of the other Zamasus from different timelines. It only makes sense for Beerus to think it would kill the Zamasu who would eventually become Goku Black. But the Zamasu who originated from the Future Trunks timeline has no relation.



It probably won't work on future trunks timeline Zamasu since its technically a new multiverse version of Zamasu. So we can assume that Beerus should be able to destroy someone from all timelines in more traditional sense, like killing all past and future versions of him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Fang (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> You're probably still stuck in the loop but you just get endlessly attacked rather than endlessly killed.



Except Diavolo was dying over and over again. I swear to god 90% of the people arguing for DBS in this thread have never read Part 5.


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

Fang said:


> Except Diavolo was dying over and over again. I swear to god 90% of the people arguing for DBS in this thread have never read Part 5.



You're taking my post out of context. I'm talking about a scenario where GER places someone immortal in the death loop. Someone who can't die to begin with can only really be endlessly attacked instead of endlessly killed.


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## Fang (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> You're taking my post out of context. I'm talking about a scenario where GER places someone immortal in the death loop. Someone who can't die to begin with can only really be endlessly attacked instead of endlessly killed.



You're right that I mistook your intentions but its too late for me to get into a debate how silly immortality is when involving GER.


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## SkylineGTR (Dec 4, 2016)

How is the zen'o floating around in a empty void feat interpreted? Does that mean he can exist without time/space or what?


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## SSBMonado (Dec 4, 2016)

Whatever it is, I'd argue it should apply to Goku, Trunks and the remainder of the top tiers as well. Yeah the two were in the time machine, but Bulma built it to travel through time and nothing more. I doubt she thought to include a contingency "exist outside time" mode that actives automatically without any indication. 
Plus, nothing happened even when they opened the canopy to let in Zeno.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 4, 2016)

Most (not all/some are even higher) time hax in DBS is 12 times more scale than Jojo.

Whis can reverse time in Multiverses as seen when he and company were spying on Zamasu killing his master from a different universe.

GokuBlue with KKx10 resisted one type of hax against Hit.
Whis can dictate who does not get affected by it.

As said before many times. Anybody above universal in DBS can take him


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## Toaa (Dec 4, 2016)

Sablés said:


> Nah, _this _is stone-walling
> 
> Not positing an argument for why you believe something cannot be, just that it can't. A usual tactic I've seen for you when you can't back up your claims worth a damn.
> 
> ...


I think diffrence is 16 years


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## Toaa (Dec 4, 2016)

Fang said:


> You're right that I mistook your intentions but its too late for me to get into a debate how silly immortality is when involving GER.


Yeah and why?what death will ger turn to zero?or will?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Masterblack06 (Dec 4, 2016)

Okay i probably shouldnt get involved in this but i gotta ask. Why would GER even let Zamasu get to the whole "spreading myself out across the universe or whatever" in the first place?


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## Toaa (Dec 4, 2016)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay i probably shouldnt get involved in this but i gotta ask. Why would GER even let Zamasu get to the whole "spreading myself out across the universe or whatever" in the first place?


What could it do?


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay i probably shouldnt get involved in this but i gotta ask. Why would GER even let Zamasu get to the whole "spreading myself out across the universe or whatever" in the first place?



Well I think the assumption was that the fight would begin with him already in his Giygasmasu form.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 4, 2016)

Masterblack06 said:


> Okay i probably shouldnt get involved in this but i gotta ask. Why would GER even let Zamasu get to the whole "spreading myself out across the universe or whatever" in the first place?


By that logic you could also ask "why would Zamasu even let GE get pierced by the arrow?"
We always assume the fight doesn't start until both sides are ready


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## Keollyn (Dec 4, 2016)

Those aren't the same thing. One is a new form, while the other doesn't exist otherwise.


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## XImpossibruX (Dec 4, 2016)

So what's the conclusion reached?


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 4, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> So what's the conclusion reached?


That GER stops at anybody beyond universal


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

XImpossibruX said:


> So what's the conclusion reached?



I don't really think a conclusion was reached. I and Montanz don't think GER has the range to fully affect Giygasmasu because we believe he spread across all 12 universes rather just one universe in the future trunks timeline. Fang and Qing disagree.


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## Perpetrator Rex (Dec 4, 2016)

Final Zamasu vs Vegeto?


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## Imagine (Dec 4, 2016)

Freddie Mercury said:


> Xeno just say that Kumagawa in theory walls GER and i can sleep >>


>MB
>Winning

We'll fight against it forever.


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## Imagine (Dec 4, 2016)

And lock this atrocious thread.

@Nighty the Mighty 

Fuck wrong with you


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> I don't really think a conclusion was reached. I and Montanz don't think GER has the range to fully affect Giygasmasu because I believe he spread across all 12 universes rather just one universe in the future trunks timeline. Fang and Qing disagree.


i dont see why turning one part to 0 wouldnt affect the rest, so as ling as Giygasmasu is within range he is screwed

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SSBMonado (Dec 4, 2016)

There's also that part where Ki confers some measure of hax resistance. Vegeta overpowering Babidi's mind control, the dragon balls being unable to kill people that are stronger than their creator, Goku becoming resistant to Hit's time stop, etc

So does this mean Goku and other high tiers could resist GER? Probably not, but I'd argue Zeno could.


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## creyzi4zb12 (Dec 4, 2016)

Anybody above Whis would be a safe bet to beat GER


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## Montanz (Dec 4, 2016)

Because that'd assume GER can reach outside his established range, why would affecting a part of Zamasu take him out completely?

Unless you also assume his negation is a chain reaction that allows him to negate things beyond his playgrade for originating within the same universe, but this assumption is mutually exclusive with the idea that GER could be multiversal for simultaneously negating two universes as it could be interpreted as chain reaction as well.

Even negating one DB universe buster would already require more effort from GER's part as they are larger than ours.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


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## Fang (Dec 4, 2016)

xenos5 said:


> I don't really think a conclusion was reached. I and Montanz don't think GER has the range to fully affect Giygasmasu because we believe he spread across all 12 universes rather just one universe in the future trunks timeline. Fang and Qing disagree.



He never spread to 12 universes and the point is GER can deal with concepts and abstractions with its power and Zamasu has no counter for that. Also there's more then me and Qing agreeing GER would beat anyone in DBS thus far. Anyway this thread is pretty much done.



Montanz said:


> Even negating one DB universe buster would already require more effort from GER's part as they are larger than ours.



It would not, stop making things up.


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## XImpossibruX (Dec 4, 2016)

I thought Zamasu spread to 12 universes in the Future Trunks timeline, which is why Zeno had to nuke the entire timeline, not just the universe. 

This isn't even taking into account that Zamasu spread to a different timeline, aka the present one in DB. Possible even more.


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## Fang (Dec 4, 2016)

Wasn't that just shown to be his "potential" spread of infecting other universes? Either way it makes no difference, he's not getting around GER.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

he never got to the present one and Zen'o has a history of overreacting. he got mad and blew up 6 universes for no good reason and they said he might destroy everything or at least U7 if Goku lied about having a friend for him.


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## XImpossibruX (Dec 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> *he never got to the present one*



So you didn't watch the episode?





He clearly appeared in the present one, even if he didn't do anything substantial in it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

all we see is his face in a hole that he didnt even create himself


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> all we see is his face in a hole *that he didnt even create himself*



Uh what? How else would it have been created?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Dec 4, 2016)

it was created by Trunks time machine and Black used the same portal with the time ring to travel there.


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## SSBMonado (Dec 4, 2016)

Zamasu's face appears in the same spot as Black's time portal did way earlier, so you could make an argument that Zamasu used a remnant of said portal to reach the present. I'm not seeing how that negates the feat, though, considering it was still Zamasu who forced the portal open again.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Montanz (Dec 4, 2016)

Why wouldn't it ? we know each indivudual DB universe is larger than the observable one, even if we ignore the map of it we know for a fact it is composed of a realm 1/10th of its size along with it. so it's 1.1x normal universes at minimum


He pretty much showed he was going to slip into the past timeline and his influence could even be felt all the way to beerus' planet.

Also bear in mind the cosmology of the verse
timelines (represented by timerings) contain a set of 12 universes each, if Zamasu was threatening to slip into a different timeline with its own set of multiverses what really stopped  him from taking over the rest of them in the future timeline when, relatively speaking, are far more easier to reach?

That aside we know his immortality was granted by shenron whose intial appearance could be seen affecting two universes and has hype of being able to destroy the "world/sekai", and any time the term is used they are talking about the multiverse and not just a single one, logically his magic scales to any wish he grants.

That along with the fact that zamasu wasn't even phased by combination attacks from the saiyans even before he got his final powerup and spread beyond earth shows that he surpasses universal+ power to an exponential degree.

Zeno is not a good example against that, for one we don't what exactly happened back there ony that his mood was  a bit spoiled, two in this instance he showed no restraint and anihilated the entire multiverse rather than the 6  he did in the past, and given how casual he is about everything it's not like we can use his current mood to dermine how much power he is putting behind his attacks.

edit: lol quotes fucked up

Reactions: Like 1


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## xenos5 (Dec 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> it was created by Trunks time machine and Black used the same portal with the time ring to travel there.



Giygasmasu didn't have the time ring. The rift wasn't made/opened when the time machine left so the only way for it to have been created/opened is for Giygasmasu to have done it through sheer power.


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