# Strongest Saint Seiya character God tier DBZ characters can defeat?



## Unlucky13 (Mar 21, 2016)

Like the title says. God tier characters like Goku, Vegeta,  Freeza, Beerus, Champa, Whiss, Vados and such. Strongest SS character they can take 

Scenario 1-independently
Scenario 2-as a team


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Beerus vs Pegasus God Cloth is a good fight


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

It isn't      .


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

God Movement said:


> It isn't      .



I'd you say so I trust you


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

Why not? 
Surely beerus is more casual on universe level 
But seiya can tap that and is quite faster  (albeit i dont think speed is relevant for haxless mftl+ universals)


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

Seiya isn't universe level, probably pretty high on the multi galaxy spectrum. But that isn't my point. The combination of superior speed + attacks that specifically focus on atomic destruction + power in the same general range = win.

I'm aware Beerus has more power, but that isn't going to win him this.


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## Kurou (Mar 22, 2016)

They stop at Ikki


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

There's Gold Saints like Camus who should get the MFTL scaling too who have haxes like Absolute Zero.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

Seiya indeed isnt universe level normally
But he did tap that against hades
I suppose you can argue that such miracles are quite situational,tho


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

> There's Gold Saints like Camus who should get the MFTL scaling too who have haxes like Absolute Zero


Camus version of AE isnt quite haxed outside of freezing coffin no? 
Hell AE wise camus kinda of just begun to reach it 
Reason why hyoga reaching AE meant his defeat 
Omega hyoga with below than AE temperatures and feats of freezing someone outside the time is a better example of hax with AE in the verse


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

That's true I suppose. The Gold Saints with sufficient hax and the MFTL scaling IMO win. Any of them without it pretty much lose due to not being able to damage the God Tiers (of DB).


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## cingetorix (Mar 22, 2016)

Isn't Beerus just very high multi galaxy level+? I mean, it wasn't exactly destroying all of the universe and it was them combined


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## Kurou (Mar 22, 2016)

Beerus was using the majority of his power to contain the destruction thats why


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## Kurou (Mar 22, 2016)

At least I think

Who tf still watches super


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## XImpossibruX (Mar 22, 2016)

God Movement said:


> There's Gold Saints like Camus who should get the MFTL scaling too who have haxes like Absolute Zero.



I thought Absolute Zero wasn't a hax anymore


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

There's genuine Absolute Zero and there's hax Absolute Zero. But I made an error, Camus' cold is conventional.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Pegasus can beat Vegito


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

Any gs tier can beat vegito


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## XImpossibruX (Mar 22, 2016)

Shouldn't Vegito be above Enraged Vegeta, who is just below 10% Beerus?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

SPC = Solar system buster

Where does Vegito rank? Small galaxy?


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

No
Pis vegeta is as strong as he wants
And 10% beerus has no above gs feats so moot point is moot


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## God Movement (Mar 22, 2016)

Vegetto is large star level since solar system level Cell isn't accepted. He's too slow to do anything of worth here.



XImpossibruX said:


> Shouldn't Vegito be above Enraged Vegeta, who is just below 10% Beerus?



Well, we don't know that for sure. But yeah he probably is above Enraged Vegeta. Beerus used 10% but he stomped Vegeta so we don't even know how close Vegeta is to that 10%.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Beerus only needed to go past 1% which means Enraged Vegeta is in between 1% and 2% Beerus


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## XImpossibruX (Mar 22, 2016)

Base Frieza is small star level with his finger, so Vegito not being past the Star level range is pretty ludicrous, tbh. 

Though, Frieza's death ball in Super is the best feat in all of DBZ. So no one really knows how strong Cell-Buu Saga characters are.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

Large star from what? 
Casual beerus is the only fucker who was confirmed to have properly destroyed stars in past 
I mean even if you buy cell statement as something like blow the sun up im not sure where large star comes from  
Or did super show something for buu?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2016)

Its really not that crazy for cell to be close to solar system level or at least large star from his statement when 1st form Frieza is casually small star level


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Frieza destroyed a planet not a star but the gap between 530.000 Frieza and SSJ Vegito is like the gap between me and Kaguya


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Frieza destroyed a planet not a star but the gap between 530.000 Frieza and SSJ Vegito is like the gap between me and Kaguya



it doesnt matter that he destroyed a planet and not a star. The explosion size and ejection speed is what matters and it was calc'd at small star level. IIRC vaporizing a human completely is far more energetic than blowing up a city


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Vegito can atomize a Mystic Gohan 

He is easily galaxy level by this reasonment

And Infact he is


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

All those casuals who know nothing about math bullshiting around


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## XImpossibruX (Mar 22, 2016)

The gap between Base Frieza and SSJ Vegito is unquantifiable. 

This is why no one knows how strong Cell-Buu Saga characters are, so it's pointless to use them in VS debates.

Only Frieza Saga and below, and God tiers should be used in DBZ vs battle.


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## Deer Lord (Mar 22, 2016)

But can't we at least figure how strong are the other forms of frieza because he works with % of his power?


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## XImpossibruX (Mar 22, 2016)

Then there's an entire debate on percentages correlating to power levels, Dazenshuu numbers, how well they scale, past power level battles, ect. 

It's a shit storm that no one wants to tackle.


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## Deer Lord (Mar 22, 2016)

As far as I remember Frieza's power level and stated "precentage" do correlate
at least in his case.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

only final form frieza
i mean im sure namek explosion was calced as star level so common sense dictates someone should be able to do that much without chain reaction effects (actually frieza himself implied he held back)


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## Montanz (Mar 22, 2016)

They're pretty much stuck to fighting purely physical saints  without noteworthy hax such as Leo, Radamanthys, Taurus, Shiryu, Seiya, etc.
Saints with hax are way too fast and can pull their moves before any of the Gods.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

I guess dbs can at least be happy that not every haxed Goldie can solo them anymore like in bog time ?
Or any Goldie in general like in pre bog time


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 22, 2016)

I really doubt that any GS can solo DBZ as it stands right now


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## Iwandesu (Mar 22, 2016)

>shaka
>saga
>mu
>shion
All guys with easily universal range that have things like mindfuck/soulfuck/dimensional fuckery on levels dbs can only hopes that will make up for any dc disadvantage
And they have speed advantage
The list gets awfully bigger with lost canvas btw


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## Sablés (Mar 22, 2016)

Strongest they can beat Drugamanthys or Regulus.  Basically any high-tier reliant on raw power and no hax whatsoever.


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 22, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> >shaka
> >saga
> >mu
> >shion
> ...



You forgot Deathmask. He might not have universal range but he has the speed and hax to kill off every Dragon Ball character as well.


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## Sablés (Mar 23, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> You forgot Deathmask. He might not have universal range but he has the speed and hax to kill off every Dragon Ball character as well.



Whis and Vados can turn back time right? Sounds like a game of eternal tag until someone runs out or Deathmask misses a beat and gets caught up in a universal explosion


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

iwandesu said:


> >shaka
> >saga
> >mu
> >shion
> ...



Lost canvas is not canon so no one cares for it tbh

you mean only their range right?, not their DC


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## Atem (Mar 23, 2016)

Lost Canvas got Cancer Manigoldo though.


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## Sablés (Mar 23, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Lost canvas is not canon so no one cares for it tbh


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

Savan said:


> Lost Canvas got Cancer Manigoldo though.



Yes and as a Cancer sign I loved the idea of him and the pope as past Cancer knights

but I'm talking in this situation, I mean when we talk about Marvel like 99% of the times we talk about 616 not ultimates or other non-canon versions


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

>Lost canvas
>No one cares for it

Low tier b8 m8


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> >Lost canvas
> >No one cares for it
> 
> Low tier b8 m8



I mean it in a way that is not canon, so it's irrellevant here

In the same way Toei DBZ anime, most fans love it but irrellevant in VS


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## Qinglong (Mar 23, 2016)

You know TOEI DBZ does get its own threads so...?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> I mean it in a way that is not canon, so it's irrellevant here
> 
> In the same way Toei DBZ anime, most fans love it but irrellevant in VS



You do realize it says Strongest Saint-Seiya God tier right?

And the OP didn't specify mainline series, so Lost canvas is VERY valid in this thread, same with Soul of Gold.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 23, 2016)

I was like just answering someone who said no Goldie saint could solo 
Hence i just briefly commenting about LC 
And yeah i didnt mention deathmask because range would be more troublesome for him 
Albeit he does have interdimensional shit like attacking shunrei from yomotsu hirasaka 
I was unsure how that would stack up at the end of the day so i just went with the safe saints


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

Yeah ok, I just wanted to point out that when someone mentions a verse we don't take in account their non-canon versions even if not mentioned on the OP

On topic I still stand and believe my statement that no GS is going to solo DBZ you're going to need a god for that, except maybe for Poseidon that never really fully awakened


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

Any gold saint with Hax to their credit is going to murderstomp the shit out of DB.

DB has basically no resistance to esoteric effects, which Goldies have in spades.

Gods and Titans are just hilarious fucking overkill


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 23, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Yeah ok, I just wanted to point out that when someone mentions a verse we don't take in account their non-canon versions even if not mentioned on the OP
> 
> On topic I still stand and believe my statement that no GS is going to solo DBZ you're going to need a god for that, except maybe for Poseidon that never really fully awakened



Saga can. Another Dimension's a bitch like that. Or he can just use the Demon Emperor Fist on all of them before they can react.

Shaka can just take their senses away before they even register that something's happening as well.

Deathmask can soulfuck them from the safety of Yomotsu Hirasaka.

The advantages of being quintillions of times FTL and having hax to overcome the firepower disadvantage. Putting up Dragon Ball against any of the Olympians, Titans, or God Cloth Saints is just overkill.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Any gold saint with Hax to their credit is going to murderstomp the shit out of DB.
> 
> DB has basically no resistance to esoteric effects, which Goldies have in spades.
> 
> Gods and Titans are just hilarious fucking overkill



If you honestly belive someone like Deathmask is going to be beating Whiss, Vados, Bills and Champa, you really need to read SS again



NightmareCinema said:


> Saga can. Another Dimension's a bitch like that. Or he can just use the Demon Emperor Fist on all of them before they can react.
> 
> Shaka can just take their senses away before they even register that something's happening as well.
> 
> ...



There are characters that can travel across dimensions in DBZ so another Dimension is not going to cut it, Deathmask can't soul fuck you from the Yomutsu hill, Shaka taking their senses isn't as fast as you think it takes your senses 1 by 1

The only thing that may work are the mind tricks and the soul fuckery

And I'm going to be honest here I have always been exceptical in the whole crossing billions of gallaxies thing, IMO they only crossed a not specified distance of space in a unknown time frame


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 23, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> If you honestly belive someone like Deathmask is going to be beating Whiss, Vados, Bills and Champa, you really need to read SS again



they have no feats against soul rip



> And I'm going to be honest here I have always been exceptical in the whole crossing billions of gallaxies thing, IMO they only crossed a not specified distance of space in a unknown time frame



your opinion is pretty irrelevant considering the galaxies were shown on panel


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

> If you honestly belive someone like Deathmask is going to be beating Whiss, Vados, Bills and Champa, you really need to read SS again



The only Cancer Saint who can't wreck them is fucking Schiller from Omega

Manigoldo stomps them into the ground, and Deathmask can do the same thing since, as CD said, they have no feats against soul rip.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> they have no feats against soul rip
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion is pretty irrelevant considering the galaxies were shown on panel



I never said they have

That doesn't equal Billions of galaxies tho, like I said a not specified distance on a not specified time-frame, now I do believe they crossed galaxies but not billions of them lol


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 23, 2016)

Except the narration said that the Bronzies crossed billions of galaxies and the empty Gold Cloths were there along for the ride as well. This is backed up by the panel showing the galaxies. Qing or Rob can provide you with the scans since they have it.

So yes, they crossed billions of galaxies and your skepticism of the feat means nothing. Dragon Ball is getting destroyed by Saga, Shaka, and Deathmask.

Hell, Aspros, Deuteros, and Manigoldo as well. Especially Aspros since he can just open up the Path of the Gods and dump the Dragon Ball characters in there.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

The spanish translation even specifies "billions"





*"After crossing through billions of galaxies"* (First Panel)
"After passing through trillions of dark spots"
"One finally arrives at a different world"
"In a far-off place, upriver from the Acheron, in the confines of which extends an endless prairie"
"A utopic scenery that only those who arrive at elysium after facing Death can know"
"A paradise where neither war, hunger, pain, or sadness exists!"
"Where one can enjoy an endless release from suffering and worldly desires!"


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> The spanish translation even specifies "billions"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am well aware of this, the portuguese also says the same but the original Japanesse one said they crossed light and darkness

Why do you guy take in consideration the Spanish>>>>>original jap?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

Because there's at least 2 translations, 3 if you count the official english translation of the manga, that mention the billions of galaxies feat.


It's not a one-off thing.


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## Iwandesu (Mar 23, 2016)

actually i think they use several/countless depending on translation even here (there are like 3 editions with somewhat different translations so meh)
but i do remember one that says "crossing countless of lights and darkenesses" in one of them
we can check with imperator but im sure light and darkness could just be a figurative way to refer to galaxies
given we have like...2 pages full of galaxies


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Because there's at least 2 translations, 3 if you count the official english translation of the manga, that mention the billions of galaxies feat.
> 
> 
> It's not a one-off thing.



There can be 1,000 translations that say different things yet the original must be the one that should be used


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 23, 2016)

"If more than two translations line up, then surely the original must be completely different"

This flawless as fuck logic


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 23, 2016)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> "If more than two translations line up, then surely the original must be completely different"
> 
> This flawless as fuck logic



But we already know what the original says...


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## Katsuargi (Mar 24, 2016)

Yeah. The original is the only version that matters. Translations are just that, translations.


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## Qinglong (Mar 24, 2016)

The fan english translation originally done was almost duwang tier and no one went back to fix it, The official Knights of the zodiac translation is closer to the original text than that

If someone has a better translation post it or the original


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## God Movement (Mar 24, 2016)

Pretty sure the Japanese straight up says 10 billion

 百億 (ten billion)


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## almanar (Mar 24, 2016)

Is this only me or everyone realized , the recent reply  was out of the box? 
Fulfledged Equelius Subaru from Saint Seiya Omega season 2 with power of Saturn can match with Wish in serious mode. Goku or Vegeta can takedown Shun andromeda because he hate fighting.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 24, 2016)

Saturn would body pretty much everyone in DB

They don't have the feats to resist his Time Manipulation.

Even Hyperion, who is comfortably below Subaru in Saturn Mode, could mollywhop them with his more broken techniques.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

Pegasus is DBS low god tier so yeah overall DBS > Saint Seiya

DBZ < Saint Seiya

GT is debatable


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## Claudio Swiss (Mar 24, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Pegasus is DBS low god tier so yeah overall DBS > Saint Seiya
> 
> DBZ < Saint Seiya
> 
> GT is debatable



Dbs is not above saint seiya right now maybe  later down the future ,gt aint doing shit.


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## Qinglong (Mar 24, 2016)

>pegasus who got mollywhopped by Hades
>god tier

uwotm8


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

Whis and Vados should be able to defeat anyone minus Saturn or Chronos, given how in SS time manipulation is the rarest hax and cant be imitated by other gods. Given how Whis is universal+ with time manipulation I dont see even Hades bringing him down.

Zarama though..... is the one character which might put DB above SS.


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## Extravlad (Mar 24, 2016)

How is Whis even beating Seiya when he needs 28 fucking minutes to go from Beerus' planet to Kaio's.

Bronze cloth Seiya had the insane speed feat with crossing billions of galaxies, God Cloth Seiya should be millions times faster at the very least.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> Pretty sure the Japanese straight up says 10 billion
> 
> 百億 (ten billion)



But they don't mention galaxies it only mentions light and darkness


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> Yes and the "lights" they are referring to are the galaxies.. as illustrated. What else could they be when we only see "dark spots" (black space) and "lights" (galaxies) on the panel?



Lights can refer to Stars and Dark spots to Black holes tho, it isn't like Saint Seiya never uses the term galaxy in the entire series


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## God Movement (Mar 24, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> I dont see even Hades bringing him down.



This is insanity. If Elysion is in fact, infinite in scope then Hades is pretty much at the upper echelons of universal whereas Whis is only observable universe+ (as the DB universe does not appear to be infinite in scope as it has a stated "edge").

Hades has superior power, speed and durability. Nothing Whis can really do to him. 



Worldbreaker said:


> Lights can refer to Stars and Dark spots to Black holes tho, it isn't like Saint Seiya never uses the term galaxy in the entire series



There are no defined stars on panel. The words match what we can see on the panel. Black SPACE and light GALAXIES.


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> This is insanity. If Elysion is in fact, infinite in scope then Hades is pretty much at the upper echelons of universal whereas Whis is only observable universe+ (as the DB universe does not appear to be infinite in scope as it has a stated "edge").
> 
> Hades has superior power, speed and durability. Nothing Whis can really do to him.



Whis could also be there if you consider that Beerus is already universal and Whis can oneshot him, a fight between Champa and Beerus supposedly can destroy universes 6 AND 7 and honestly it doesnt seem even Beerus and Champa teamed up could defeat Whis or Vados.

About Elysion, he said, she said, pretty much we have no way of knowing if Elysion is infinite or not, all we know is Hades is universal+, which is also the calculated level of Whis. Even if it is again Whis is likely very above universal as well.

Unless you outright want to say Hades can oneshot Whis, he has a good chance via time manipulation.

Then as I said DB has Zarama which may really put DB above SS if its hype is true.


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## God Movement (Mar 24, 2016)

By virtue of being universe+ and like 1000 times faster than Whis on paper he'd likely get in all the shots he needs to end it before Whis can even move.

We know nothing about Zarama. All we know is he made the Super DBs.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> There are no defined stars on panel. The words match what we can see on the panel. Black SPACE and light GALAXIES.



nanbyaku oku to iu hikari wo koe
Hundred millions of light to cross

nanzen oku to iu yami wo nukete
Hundred millions of dark spots

I'm sorry but I find it weird that for you guys this means Galaxy and space

In my honest opinion the galaxies on the manga are there to show they are getting closer to the Elyseum, seeing as each panel that progresses we see less and less galaxies until we see the garden not for an interpretation that the lights we mention are actually galaxies


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Whis and Vados should be able to defeat anyone minus Saturn or Chronos, given how in SS time manipulation is the rarest hax and cant be imitated by other gods. Given how Whis is universal+ with time manipulation I dont see even Hades bringing him down.
> 
> Zarama though..... is the one character which might put DB above SS.



>Whis and Vados should be able  defeat anyone minus Saturn or Chronos 

No


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Lights can refer to Stars and Dark spots to Black holes tho, it isn't like Saint Seiya never uses the term galaxy in the entire series



Stars do not exist between galaxies or inside of quasars. 

Also post the raw you are basing this off of, because nothing correlates to this in the manga if you are claiming the notion isn't being compared to galaxies.


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

Fang said:


> >Whis and Vados should be able  defeat anyone minus Saturn or Chronos
> 
> No



Unless you think they can oneshot Whis. How do they get around his time manipulation? You beat him, he rewinds time and try again and again and again and again.....


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

There is literally nothing Whis can do against Hades who fought against his peers like Coeus, Hyperion, and Kreios during the Titomanchy.

Stop posting.


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## lokoxDZz (Mar 24, 2016)

Hades also does have  a bunch of hax on top of superior stats on pretty much everything


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

Fang said:


> There is literally nothing Whis can do against Hades who fought against his peers like Coeus, Hyperion, and Kreios during the Titomanchy.
> 
> Stop posting.



Except rewind time?


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

How is he going to rewind time when he's been pasted by Hades?

>far less power then Hades
>far less abilities then Hades
>FAR FAR slower then Hades

Its not happening.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> It's tens of billions not hundreds of millions.
> 
> Furthermore, it's clear what was being referred to. It's very much supposed to be considered a universal space. Plus, when numbers like "tens of billions" pops up and you know that we have tens of billions of galaxies in our very own universe it's clear what is being alluded to. Especially when you're being shown on panel.



I never said it wasn't a universal space, I did mentioned before that they may have crossed galaxies, I just don't believe billions of them 

I think you are assuming to much in all honesty, Saint Seiya is not a series that is afraid to use space terms, and light and darkness is a really ambiguous one, the galaxies are just shown so you can see they are getting closer and closer, in the first pannel we see like 20 then 6 then 3 then we are at the garden, I don't think it signifies them crossing billions of them


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

>the author doesn't draw billions of galaxies despite the omniscient narrator telling us they cross them
>we're shown them crossing a universe filled with quasars, dark spots, and billions of "lights" (poetic wording for galaxies) on panel
>therefore its not billions of galaxies
>"only a handful"

Wrong.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

Fang said:


> Stars do not exist between galaxies or inside of quasars.
> 
> Also post the raw you are basing this off of, because nothing correlates to this in the manga if you are claiming the notion isn't being compared to galaxies.


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

I'm not seeing anything in the hiragana that contradicts the narrator or the assessment.


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## God Movement (Mar 24, 2016)

Also, he's using terms like "lights" and "hundreds of billions of darknesses" because he's clearly speaking poetically. It sounds a lot more refined than "galaxies" and "billions of light years".


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

Its also kind of nonsensical to assume the author would have to literally hand draw manually billions of galaxies.



We're told by the omniscient narrator the distance and size of the Super Dimension, the billions of galaxies and quasars (dark spots) that span the space between Makai and Elysion and shown them crossing all of that when entering the Path of Gods made in the Wailing Wall.


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## Kurou (Mar 24, 2016)

Wow

Talk about reaching


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> But it doesn't matter what you _believe_, it matters what was stated.
> 
> I'm not assuming anything. I'm looking at the panel. There is black space and there are lights (galaxies). What else could they be referring to? If this was not the case galaxies would not have been illustrated because they wouldn't be important as it relates to the statement, he would have instead, drawn STARS. The galaxies are there because they ARE the "lights". Agreed. The galaxies decrease in number as the panels go on because they are indeed the "lights" that they are crossing. For obvious reasons it is IMPOSSIBLE to illustrate tens of billions of galaxies. So drawing 30 or so on panel is used to illustrate the number. I mean really? Why do you think he's drawn an absurd number of galaxies and why do you think he then mentions that they crossed tens of billions of lights?
> 
> You have to infer here. Put two and two together and stop wasting your time and mine.



But what is stated is too ambiguous, I know perfectly well that Kuramada is never going to draw billions of galaxies but instead of light they could had used the actual word for galaxy, like I said before the description is weird I mean they also mention how the garden is infinite and we perfectly know that is not true 

If you think you are wasting your time you're more then welcome not to reply


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## God Movement (Mar 24, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> Lights can refer to Stars and Dark spots to Black holes tho, it isn't like Saint Seiya never uses the term galaxy in the entire series



Ok. So SHOW us these stars on the panel. I mean, surely if he was describing what you're saying (stars) he would illustrate them, that would be important...right? Show us these black holes too.



Worldbreaker said:


> But what is stated is too ambiguous, I know perfectly well that Kuramada is never going to draw billions of galaxies but instead of light they could had used the actual word for galaxy, like I said before the description is weird I mean they also mention how the garden is infinite and we perfectly know that is not true
> 
> If you think you are wasting your time you're more then welcome not to reply



It isn't ambiguous. Because to go along with the poetic illustration there is also a visual illustration. He is a WRITER. Writers are creative and have creative ways of saying things. It's interesting that you claimed I am assuming shit, but you are the only one here making shit up that isn't even on the panel.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

God Movement said:


> Ok. So SHOW us these stars on the panel. I mean, surely if he was describing what you're saying (stars) he would illustrate them, that would be important...right? Show us these black holes too.
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't ambiguous. Because to go along with the poetic illustration there is also a visual illustration. He is a WRITER. Writers are creative and have creative ways of saying things. It's interesting that you claimed I am assuming shit, but you are the only one here making shit up that isn't even on the panel.



I am really sure you know what a Galaxy is made of

I'm not making shit up, I just pointed out that what it's said is light and darkness which I am correct, I even posted the scan the raw one and the english one, and tried to translated from what I know and I was just wrong in the millions and billions things (Which is not the problem at hand)

You guys got mad because I have a different interpretation than you guys which I found it really weird, and even posted reasons why I think of this, and even pointed out how I do believe they crossed galaxies but I just don't believe billions of them


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## Qinglong (Mar 24, 2016)

What is even going on here

This is some next level of reaching


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

Fang said:


> How is he going to rewind time when he's been pasted by Hades?
> 
> >far less power then Hades
> >far less abilities then Hades
> ...



Far less speed I can agree.

But not power or abilities.

Both are universe+ level, neither of them so far are multiversal. How does Hades have "far more power"?

Far less abilities, honestly rewinding time is better than any combat ability Hades has shown.

Slower, I can agree with that.


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 24, 2016)

Worldbreaker said:


> I am really sure you know what a Galaxy is made of
> 
> I'm not making shit up, I just pointed out that what it's said is light and darkness which I am correct, I even posted the scan the raw one and the english one, and tried to translated from what I know and I was just wrong in the millions and billions things (Which is not the problem at hand)
> 
> You guys got mad because I have a different interpretation than you guys which I found it really weird, and even posted reasons why I think of this, and even pointed out how I do believe they crossed galaxies but I just don't believe billions of them


The narrator proves you wrong. If you can't connect the dots, that's your own problem. Not everything in fiction has to be spelled out for you in order for it to be obvious because sometimes, the writer trusts the readers to make that connection themselves.

You're just arguing semantics at this point. You believe they didn't cross billions of galaxies but you have nothing to back it up with. Arguing from belief is not evidence. Give it up already.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> The narrator proves you wrong. If you can't connect the dots, that's your own problem. Not everything in fiction has to be spelled out for you in order for it to be obvious because sometimes, the writer trusts the readers to make that connection themselves.
> 
> You're just arguing semantics at this point. You believe they didn't cross billions of galaxies but you have nothing to back it up with. Arguing from belief is not evidence. Give it up already.



But I'm arguing exactly on what the narrator is saying...

It isn't like I am making up things, I just pointed out my opinion said why and give scans of it, and you guys got ofended by no reason

I mean if you guys think I'm a downplayer and know nothing of the series you are in all your right to ignore me


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## Fang (Mar 24, 2016)

Orochibuto said:


> Far less speed I can agree.
> 
> But not power or abilities.
> 
> ...



You are wrong on everything. Whis hasn't showed anything that gives him direct parity with Hades, on top of that Hades can soul-fuck, use TK on at least a star system level range, and create or destroy universes.

Stop wanking Whis.


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## Blocky (Mar 24, 2016)

lol

the reaching is real


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Mar 24, 2016)

The portuguese, French, and Spanish Translations line up with the original, albeit more poetically worded representation of the feat.

This level of denial is flat out unreal.

Also top fucking kek at Whis not being overpowered by stuff like Hades and the Titans.


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## Worldbreaker (Mar 24, 2016)

You guys exagerate too much, and I'm not talking about the Billions of galaxy thing, just the way you guys debate


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## Claudio Swiss (Mar 24, 2016)

So back on topic who can dbs god tiers can beat speed equalized in saint seiya at least that doesn't have bs hax?


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## Orochibuto (Mar 24, 2016)

My bet is on Zarama if we are looking for ways DB can beat SS. But we dont know until it appears, if it has limits then likely not much will change but if it really can do shit like make Bulma strong enough to bitchslap KO Whis and Vados.... oh boy.


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## Veggie (Mar 24, 2016)

Never thought I'd see the day whre Dragon Ball could tango with Saint Seiya


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## NightmareCinema (Mar 25, 2016)

Vegetto said:


> Never thought I'd see the day whre Dragon Ball could tango with Saint Seiya



They still can't.

Saint Seiya still has more firepower, speed, and hax.

Dragon Ball still has a long way to go if they really want to tango with Saint Seiya.


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## TheSweetFleshofDeath (Mar 25, 2016)

Didn't Whis say his time rewind has a recharge feature?  Either that, or he meant that he was only going to give Goku one chance.


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## Veggie (Mar 25, 2016)

NightmareCinema said:


> They still can't.
> 
> Saint Seiya still has more firepower, speed, and hax.
> 
> Dragon Ball still has a long way to go if they really want to tango with Saint Seiya.



More fire power? I know speed and hax but isn't Dragon Ball also Universal.  And it's my impression that Whis can take on the lower saints.

Unfortunately I don't see DB getting as much hax in the future.


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## Fang (Mar 25, 2016)

Gaia
Chronos, Pontus, and the other Primordial Gods
Kairos
Titans
Olympians
God Bronze Saints
God Gold Saints
Omega Bronze Saints Saints
Abzu
Saturn
4 Heavenly Kings
Mars
Gold Saints

And most importantly Gemini Saga


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## Fang (Mar 25, 2016)

Are you the poster who was working with Nihilus and made GSS?


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## Fang (Mar 25, 2016)

I'd still say Episode G would be a better place then the original manga. The English speaking community here I know loves it for the most part and since the sequel is starting now I'd say its a good time, personally. 

But that's good to know you have another group to roll with to restart the project.


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