# Kabuto vs Luffy



## Volt manta (May 12, 2014)

Curious what Kabuto can do.
They fight in the same place that Kabuto fought Itachi and Sasuke. IC for both. Distance is 30m


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 12, 2014)

He summons Manda 2, gg


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> He summons Manda 2, gg



This plus Kabuto is a regen freak with a lot of hax.


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## ShadowReaper (May 12, 2014)

Luffy stomps.


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## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Luffy punch's his head off before he can do anything. If he can summon Manda 2 however than Kabuto likely takes this.


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## ClandestineSchemer (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto gets killed before he can summon Manda.


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## MusubiKazesaru (May 12, 2014)

He can buy time with genjutsu


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

I fail to see how Kabuto can be killed by luffy,Kabuto the regen freak...


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## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I fail to see how Kabuto can be killed by luffy,Kabuto the regen freak...



Unless he's shown to be able to regen a missing head, it doesn't mean anything.


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## Chad (May 12, 2014)

Luffy gets cut in half with chakra scalpel and/or Shikotsumyaku... and Luffy is likely not even going to hit Kabuto with his insane reactions. Plus, the guy blitzed solo king Itachi.


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## Ryo Shiki (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto summons some edos.


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## Imagine (May 12, 2014)

You like being _that_ guy, don't you Astral?


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## Chad (May 12, 2014)

Dunno wut cher talkin' bout mate.


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## Blαck (May 12, 2014)

Astral said:


> Luffy gets cut in half with chakra scalpel and/or Shikotsumyaku... and Luffy is likely not even going to hit Kabuto with his insane reactions. Plus, the guy blitzed solo king Itachi.



Dammit Astral 

It's Flutter's job to be that guy


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## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Clearly Astral is flutters dupe. 



Astral said:


> Luffy gets cut in half with chakra scalpel and/or Shikotsumyaku... and Luffy is likely not even going to hit Kabuto with his insane reactions. *Plus, the guy blitzed solo king Itachi*.



Nope. Catching him off gaurd=/=blitzing.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Unless he's shown to be able to regen a missing head, it doesn't mean anything.



Kabuto turns hos body into water.


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## LazyWaka (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Kabuto turns hos body into water.



Haki.


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## egressmadara (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto plays the flute.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Kabuto turns hos body into water.


Heck,  he can melt himself into anything at the scenario iirc.
Also,  the speed difference is like mach 70+-140 vs current doflamingo speed
He has time to melt himself and summon curbstomp worthy edos.
Orochimaru already showed to be able to regenerate from being cut in half and having his head smashed.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto is way to versatile for luffy .

First of we know base kabuto durability can easily be scaled to town+ for being far superior to orochimaru (though luffy is town + as well)

Sage mode kabuto can easily be scaled to the Mach 300+ he also dodge a sussano Arrow (which is scaled to the Choa FRS in speed) 




(IB4 anybody tries to claim Enton increases speed)




Also has top tier regen that rivals Karin (who can regent pierced organs & lungs)

He also can turn into water similar to suigetsu( I might say even greater)




He should also be able to stitch body parts back together like orochimaru




He also has his sage binding dragon which can slow down luffy movements (if needed)



He can also spit out spider webs (which a basic sussano sword/arrow sword can't cut, also amaterasu can't damage it)



(Sauce had to infused his arrow sword with Enton to cleave it)

He also can cast a sound genjutsu (strong enough to bind itachi)




He can also pierce characters with town + durability & He can also summon manda V2.(if needed)

Also he has a arsenal of Edo's at his disposal. (Please nobody bring up the dumb argument of him needing to get DNA & a new body everytime to resummon the same edo he already made a sacrifice vessel for already)

Once he has already sacrifice a vessel with the DNA contract. He can freely de-summon & resummoned his Edo's from there casket at will. (Though it takes up a lot of chakra)

Kabuto will be most likely taking this.


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

Why are people just scaling everyone to Naruto's huge rasengan?


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Why are people just scaling everyone to Naruto's huge rasengan?


Actually nardo used huge Rasengan twice,  and sauce Arrow had the same speed of it in one of them. Kabuto is precognitive and had a good distance,  so this actually doesn't Scalle so linearly, though. He should be kcm calculated speed, though.


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

I only remember Nardo using that huge rasengan from atop of the tree :/


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Why are people just scaling everyone to Naruto's huge rasengan?



Why wouldn't they be scalable to that?

Any who, I was scaling his durability from V2 kinku casual tail whip.& also this.


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

Wait,the Mach 350 calc is for the giant FRS not for a rasengan.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Wait,the Mach 350 calc is for the giant FRS not for a rasengan.



It was never stated that size increases FRS speeds.

RM nardo FRS can easily scalable to the mach 300.


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

And?RM Nardo is easily faster than 80 % of the series.

Also,lol people were bitching about scaling Doflamingo's string speed to others,yet they easily scale the FRS to other Nardo characters.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> And?RM Nardo is easily faster than 80 % of the series.



Yes. But why are you mentioning this.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> And?RM Nardo is easily faster than 80 % of the series.


Itachi, Ay and Nagato keep up with him. Any speedsters can get such scalling. SM Kabuto could easily be scaled to the kyuubi bijuudama mach 140+ calc and possibly to the speedsters calc.


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Yes. But why are you mentioning this.



Because you are scaling kabuto to that attack.

Kabuto getting scaled to the Bijuu Dama calc


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Because you are scaling kabuto to that attack.
> 
> Kabuto getting scaled to the Bijuu Dama calc


Anyone which can keep up with casual minato get scaled to kyuubi bijjudama calc.
At the absolute worst he is getting mach 70 +which is more than enough to summon Edo Tensei at a 30 meters scenario


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Because you are scaling kabuto to that attack.
> 
> Kabuto getting scaled to the Bijuu Dama calc




A Bb>=FRS in speeds.

Edit:


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Also,lol people were bitching about scaling Doflamingo's string speed to others,yet they easily scale the FRS to other Nardo characters.


Didn't they scale luffy to doflamingo speed despite the bitching ?
Do you really think we didn't face many shitstorms before it got accepted. :imao


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

I keep hearing mention of Minato and Bijuu.

What does Kabuto whose decisively inferior to either  have to do with any of that?


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 12, 2014)

ONE

TWO 

THREE

RIDER KICK


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## Dellinger (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Didn't they scale luffy to doflamingo speed despite the bitching ?
> Do you really think we didn't face many shitstorms before it got accepted. :imao



Because Luffy managed to save Kyros when Doflamingo's feet was literally inches away from Kyros' head and then avoided a double attack from the 2 mingos.



Sabl?s said:


> I keep hearing mention of Minato and Bijuu.
> 
> What does Kabuto whose decisively inferior to either  have to do with any of that?



Idk,it's like saying that Caesar is as fast as Luffy because he managed to keep up with him even though when Luffy got serious he was blitzing him all the time.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> I keep hearing mention of Minato and Bijuu.
> 
> What does Kabuto whose decisively inferior to either  have to do with any of that?


I'm okay with mach 70+ due to he definitely being at least sm nardo at speed. 
Anyway, he foght 2 mhs characters at the same time(at least itachi definitely keep up with RM nardo and killer bee), I'm not sure if he changed blows any time at their fight,though,  but if he did, you can guess what we have.



White Hawk said:


> it's like saying that Caesar is as fast as Luffy because he managed to keep up with him even though when Luffy got serious he was blitzing him all the time.


It isn't,  they were fighting serious against Nagato(heck, killer bee even transformed and Itachi used sussano.) and nothing implies they weren't against Itachi.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> I keep hearing mention of Minato and Bijuu.
> 
> What does Kabuto whose decisively inferior to either  have to do with any of that?




Itachi who can keep up with RM nardo & killer bee at the same time (combat speed wise)




 But in 3 instances during itachi vs kabuto, he was stab/blitz during there fight. Heck he barely landed a hit on Sm kabuto.

Also, Sm kabuto durability can easily be scaled to kisame (who survived a afternoon tiger)

Or scale him to base fuu who tanked "Gyuki whirlwind" whiched razed 5-8 km of earth including pulverizing 5 km of forest trees as well. (Could potentially be in the megatons)


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Anyone which can keep up with casual minato get scaled to kyuubi bijjudama calc.
> At the absolute worst he is getting mach 70 +which is more than enough to summon Edo Tensei at a 30 meters scenario



Exactly Luffy can't due shit to someone who has regen like Kabuto,  once Edo tensei or Manda 2 is out game over.



LazyWaka said:


> Haki isn't dependent on DF's.



Pretty sure Haki lets them touch devil fruit users.


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## Byrd (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Pretty sure Haki lets them touch devil fruit users.



Do you read one piece? Haki is independent of Devil Fruits


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Pretty sure Haki lets them touch devil fruit users.



Logia is most likely dealing with elements. If luffy decided off the bat to used a haki infused punch.he would most likely hit liquidfy kabuto (equalization rule)

But like I mention earlier, it would be ridiculous if "Sm kabuto" isn't scalable to kisame in durability or scalable to base fuu.

Current Luffy isn't putting down somebody with megaton dura (including insane regen)


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Byrd said:


> Do you read one piece? Haki is independent of Devil Fruits



Yes I fucking do, but Haki lets Haki users touch devil fruit users, Kabuto's powers don't stem from the devil fruit.


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## Byrd (May 12, 2014)

equalization doesn't work like that I think... otherwise you will be saying Luffy can actually hit Sandman from spiderman.



> Yes I fucking do, but Haki lets Haki users touch devil fruit users, Kabuto's powers don't stem from the devil fruit.



> still has no idea how haki works

Thats only a part of Haki, actually CoA boosts up the attacks and defenses of whatever it is connect with rather it be a object or person... 

Haki will still work on him (if he gets hit) regardless if he has a DF or not


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Logia is most likely dealing with elements. If luffy decided off the bat to used a haki infused punch.he would most likely hit liquidfy kabuto (equalization rule)
> 
> But like I mention earlier, it would be ridiculous if "Sm kabuto" isn't scalable to kisame in durability or scalable to base fuu.
> 
> Current Luffy isn't putting down somebody with megaton dura (including insane regen)



Why should we equalize when they don't equalize any of their shit? Fuck that.


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## Byrd (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Why should we equalize when they don't equalize any of their shit? Fuck that.



A straight narutard comment.... Haki first of all cannot be equalize cause it behaves *very* differently than the other two... its the manifestation of willpower


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Byrd said:


> equalization doesn't work like that I think... otherwise you will be saying Luffy can actually hit Sandman from spiderman




Wouldn't a expert haki user damage crocodile while he's in his sand logia element state ?



 Although, I might be getting things mixed up


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Byrd said:


> A straight narutard comment.... Haki first of all cannot be equalize cause it behaves *very* differently than the other two... its the manifestation of willpower



Willpower so strong! Whatever bro any one who roots against you're op is a Naruto tard.


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## Byrd (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Willpower so strong! Whatever bro any one who roots against you're op is a Naruto tard.





> Why should we equalize when they don't equalize any of their shit? Fuck that.




Thats not the case, your comment is fucking stupid and full of whining, thats why you are a narutard...


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## Tapion (May 12, 2014)

how does haki that allows you to hit intangibles specifically works?


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

Christ almighty.

Haki allows the user to grab "Logia" like intangibles across fiction. With equalization, they are allowed to hit intangible beings with similar properties to a logia, Chaos from Sonic is one such example.

Equalization only exists for the benefit of verses to be able to use their abilities without being deterred by "stronger/weaker" energy limitations; aside from abilities that grant extraneous advantages/disadvantages in combat. I.e convenience. Take for example, a verse where every character is invisible to normal people yet can be seen with others that possess a universal energy system (mana reiryoku, chakra ki, etc). That shit's going to be equalized so they can be seen with other verses having a similar energy system.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Starraver said:


> how does haki that allows you to hit intangibles specifically works?



Logia's aren't actually what you may call "intangible" but more element based from my assumption.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Hozuki user's bodies come from their bloodline limit and devil fruit users from their devil fruit,.



Byrd said:


> Thats not the case, your comment is fucking stupid and full of whining, thats why you are a narutard...



Go read you're quality mangas....


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

luffy destroys the battlefield and eventually bfr's kabuto by sending him flying

then he eats manda


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Hozuki user's bodies come from their bloodline limit and devil fruit users from their devil fruit,.



Who the hell cares where it comes from? The properties are identical to logias, Hozuki intangibility even suffers from elemental disadvantages with lightning like Croc's does with water or Ace's with a DF that envelops fire.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Byrd said:


> equalization doesn't work like that I think... otherwise you will be saying Luffy can actually hit Sandman from spiderman.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is why, boy Sables I'm sure flutter would disagree with you aswell.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

compare haki to naruto's sm punches that do damage without making contact

it has nothing to do with fruits, just uses non-physical means to do physical damage to dudes who are in a state that would normally prevent them being physically damaged


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> luffy destroys the battlefield and eventually bfr's kabuto by sending him flying
> 
> then he eats manda


> luffy
> bfring an actually easy city level durability by sm scalling
> while being town+
> and eating a 10 km snake
doubtful


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> compare haki to naruto's sm punches that do damage without making contact
> 
> it has nothing to do with fruits, just uses non-physical means to do physical damage to dudes who are in a state that would normally prevent them being physically damaged



No stop don't compare the two.


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

Why the hell would Kabuto be City-level?

Are you guys coming up with new scalings every thread?


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## Tapion (May 12, 2014)

explanation sounds reasonable enough though..I can't help but think something is off about it usage in this situation, of course I barley have an argument so i'l leave it be.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> > luffy
> > bfring an actually easy city level durability by sm scalling
> > while being town+
> > and eating a 10 km snake
> doubtful



don't know where this scaling is being asspulled from but durability doesn't stop anyone getting punched a mile away

>10km snake

so there will be leftovers to take back to the ship


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Why the hell would Kabuto be City-level?
> 
> Are you guys coming up with new scalings every thread?



I never agreed with that town level plus with crazy good regen yes.


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

_Homestuck _is actually correct. Anybody with Haki can hit Kabuto. Just the way it works. 

People can call out unfairness or whatever but Equivalence rule is there for convenience, not fairness.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> don't know where this scaling is being asspulled from but durability doesn't stop anyone getting punched a mile away
> 
> >10km snake
> 
> so there will be leftovers to take back to the ship



Luffy isn't going to eat Manda two jeez.


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## B Rabbit (May 12, 2014)

Its why genjutsu can hurt other people despite not having chakra


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> _Homestuck _is actually correct. Anybody with Haki can hit Kabuto. Just the way it works.
> 
> People can call out unfairness or whatever but Equivalence rule is there for convenience, not fairness.



People differ on that opinion so it's not that easy.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Why the hell would Kabuto be City-level?
> 
> Are you guys coming up with new scalings every thread?


SM scalling. 
SM Minato got city level low end and tanked a kick from juudara. 
SM madara got the same and take a beatdown from bijju.
SM nardo has this cuz he took a beatdown from kyuubi
SM hashi the same thing.
Why can't we Scalle a high tier like kabuto to the dura of base kisame when sm clearly boost your durability from city block + to megaton degree in all the casis above?


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> People differ on that opinion so it's not that easy.



Well then put this another way. Genjutsu only affects people with chakra networks.

By this logic, it won't work on any other verse.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> don't know where this scaling is being asspulled from but durability doesn't stop anyone getting punched a mile away
> 
> >10km snake
> 
> so there will be leftovers to take back to the ship


Luffy isn't bfring hulk.
Pretty sure willy had a blog/meta about it.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Well then put this another way. Genjutsu only affects people with chakra networks.
> 
> By this logic, it won't work on any other verse.



I understand what you're saying but there has been a lot of controversy of that,  it's not just me.


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## Tapion (May 12, 2014)

If we knew why haki allowes you to hit intangibles it would really be helpful then and again Haki is vague and terrible...CoA being the only one making sense...just roll with it 

or did I miss that explanation or something?


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## B Rabbit (May 12, 2014)

You don't know much.


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## Sablés (May 12, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> SM scalling.
> SM Minato got city level low end and tanked a kick from juudara.
> SM madara got the same and take a beatdown from bijju.
> SM nardo has this cuz he took a beatdown from kyuubi
> ...



I don't recall Nardo taking a physical beating from Kyuubi or demonstrating durability feats remotely approaching city-level. The others could simply have been physically more capable than Kabuto to begin with.  You don't compare a powerup to an individual. Especially when the SM in question is of a completely different variety.

Don't see the point of scaling like tiers when Naruto doesn't work that way as  a verse. Pain getting one-shotted by rasengan anyone?


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## Tapion (May 12, 2014)

Then educate me...CoO is basically a PIS radar that goes on and off my friend


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

I'm kinda iffy on sage modes being scaled, kinda confusing just like Haki.


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## Iwandesu (May 12, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> I don't recall Nardo taking a physical beating from Kyuubi or demonstrating durability feats remotely approaching city-level. The others could simply have been physically more capable than Kabuto to begin with.  You don't compare a powerup to an individual. Especially when the SM in question is of a completely different variety.
> 
> Don't see the point of scaling like tiers when Naruto doesn't work that way as  a verse. Pain getting one-shotted by rasengan anyone?


Nardo versus kyuubi. 
Kyuubi punches are in megatons. 
He tank a kyuubi slap.

I agree that kabuto's one wasn't too focused on durability though.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

another example is the shit the hyuuga's do

or the shit the sound ninjas did

it hits becauseit's an energy attack, not just a physical object moving at high speed



Sabl?s said:


> _Homestuck _is actually correct. Anybody with Haki can hit Kabuto. Just the way it works.
> 
> People can call out unfairness or whatever but Equivalence rule is there for convenience, not fairness.



yeah, really, i could see their point if haki was something specifically designed for countering df users and nothing else

but it isn't

people might as well try to say chakra won't be useful against luffy cause he's not a ninja.. it's complete nonsense



iwandesu said:


> Luffy isn't bfring hulk.
> Pretty sure willy had a blog/meta about it.



kabuto isn't hulk

and i dunno how people think physics work but unless hulk has something attaching him to the ground or he weighs a billion tons then there'd be nothing to stop a sufficient force from sending him flying just like anyone else


Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Luffy isn't going to eat Manda two jeez.



of course he is

it's a giant piece of meat

i would honestly be surprised if he didn't get distracted by trying to eat manda before he even got rid of kabuto



iwandesu said:


> Nardo versus kyuubi.
> Kyuubi punches are in megatons.
> He tank a kyuubi slap.
> 
> I agree that kabuto's one wasn't too focused on durability though.



kwl stry

except naruto v kyuubi wasn't real


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

If you guys really think Kisame or base fu is more durable than "Sm kabuto" be my guess.

Orochimaru (the only member in akatsuki) time through time throughout the manga who was noted for his durability & resilience. Kisame was always hyped for his insane chakra levels, not for being a tank (although he sorta is)

We know that base kabuto durability =>orochimaru by a margin.

"Sm kabuto" durability should be Equal to kisame (if not unqualifiably higher) 

Also, you have people like base "Fuu" strugging off megaton(if not Triple kiloton) attacks casually.

Sage mode gives the user an insane boost in all stats, ninjutsu down to durability. (Base nardo FRS was barely pushing 1 kiloton, but in Sage mode he's playing with over 40 megaton+ worth of Dc)


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestruck Manda 2 would make Luffy his appetizer.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Homestruck Manda 2 would make Luffy his appetizer.



somebody asked before but do you actually read one piece


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> somebody asked before but do you actually read one piece



Yup weekly but do you read Naruto or at least keep up with the calcs?


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## TwentyFifthNight (May 12, 2014)

I give it a month, base naruto's rasengan would be city level via "dubious" scaling.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

what do the calcs say about luffy one-shotting manda 2 with a fist to the head and then eating him like he does to every other giant monster ever?

his nostril is about the size of a car, meaning his head is well within the size of object luffy can destroy


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

No that would never happen unless we have a part three called Naruto Ball Z.



Homestuck said:


> what do the calcs say about luffy one-shotting manda 2 with a fist to the head and then eating him like he does to every other giant monster ever?
> 
> his nostril is about the size of a car, meaning his head is well within the size of object luffy can destroy



You really don't know what your talking about.


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## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> what do the calcs say about luffy one-shotting manda 2 with a fist to the head and then eating him like he does to every other giant monster ever?
> 
> his nostril is about the size of a car, meaning his head is well within the size of object luffy can destroy



Err. Luffy couldn't even one shot The original Manda. Let alone V2.



*Spoiler*: __ 



 but by the look of things, I can see ur trolling


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

nostril isn't much bigger than a human.. still easily visible




by the scale of the ship.. people are too small to be visible

there is no way on god's green earth that luffy is not eating that snake


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## Crimson Dragoon (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Homestruck Manda 2 would make Luffy his appetizer.



there is no "r" in Homestuck, goddamnit


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> there is no "r" in Homestuck, goddamnit



I fucked up sorry.


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> nostril isn't much bigger than a human.. still easily visible
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are so bad, seriously are you for real?


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

nice counter argument

so i guess we decided luffy wins


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

No it wasn't, boy it's hard to be nice Manda two eats Luffy gg.


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## Tir (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> nostril isn't much bigger than a human.. still easily visible
> 
> [sp]
> [/sp]
> ...



that's perspective. 
not tomention Manda 2 is more durable than what Luffy can dish out. Much stronger too. 
Luffy would win if Kabuto doesn't manage to Summon Manda


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## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto uses edo tensei or that sound genjustu gg as well.


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## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

where's he getting the time to use genjutsu? is he just going to use it straight away at the start?

then i guess there's no reason luffy won't use the conqueror's haki straight away 

sleep well kabutokun



Tir said:


> that's perspective.
> not tomention Manda 2 is more durable than what Luffy can dish out. Much stronger too.
> Luffy would win if Kabuto doesn't manage to Summon Manda



baseless claim


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Omg Homeboy you are hurting me with your posts.


----------



## Tir (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> where's he getting the time to use genjutsu? is he just going to use it straight away at the start?
> 
> then i guess there's no reason luffy won't use the conqueror's haki straight away
> 
> sleep well kabutokun


Why would Conqueror Haki work on Kabuto? Feat that his haki can get on someone as strong as Kabuto?




> baseless claim


Which one?


----------



## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

> If you guys really think base Kisame or base fu is more durable than "Sm kabuto" be my guess.
> 
> Orochimaru (the only member in akatsuki) time through time throughout the manga who was noted for his durability & resilience. Kisame was always hyped for his insane chakra levels, not for being a tank (although he sorta is)
> 
> ...





Tir said:


> that's perspective.
> not tomention Manda 2 is more durable than what Luffy can dish out. Much stronger too.
> *Luffy would win* if Kabuto doesn't manage to Summon Manda



This would be implying that luffy can one shot/damage Sm kabuto.

Kabuto has Edo's in his arsenal as well as a chakra blade which can pierce town+ characters, Genjutsu etc.

Or he can just summon manda V2.



*Spoiler*: __ 



Luffy at his current state has poor showings.(compared to the other top dogs in the verse)


Obviously later down the line luffy would be scaled to prime chinjao HB (or even Teraton Web)


----------



## Chad (May 12, 2014)

His thor punch can overpower Chinjao's ougi.


----------



## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

Tir said:


> Why would Conqueror Haki work on Kabuto? Feat that his haki can get on someone as strong as Kabuto?


it overpowers the will of others

kabuto spent most of his life as a subordinate with no will of his own and doesn't even know who he is

being strong is irrelevant, his will is dogshit

in fact conqueror's haki would probably be perfect for breaking out of an illusion like that, nevermind preventing him using it from the start



Tir said:


> Which one?


manda being more durable than anything luffy can take


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Astral said:


> His thor punch can overpower Chinjao's ougi.



Luffy already at teratons.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 12, 2014)

Prime Monkey's got those Petatons from meteor scaling


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck where Luffy at? Megatons or Gigatons?


----------



## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

sorry but i don't deal in made up numbers


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Well that's what the obd goes on mostly, explains a lot about you.


----------



## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

I hate to spam this exquisite thread.

You also have kakazu who Tanked/survived Nabi Paw slam (which is in the single digit megaton)


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Kabuto can use that sound genjutsu.luffy can't get out of that.also he can summon single digit gigaton or atleast triple digit megaton V2 Manda.i think Kabuto can win this.


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> I hate to spam this exquisite thread.
> 
> You also have kakazu who Tanked/survived Nabi Paw slam (which is in the single digit megaton)



True that true that but Kabuto might not be that durable although he has better regen.


----------



## brolmes (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Well that's what the obd goes on mostly, explains a lot about you.



actually most of your posts in here have just been "omg no" and "you're bad", "no pls stop"

you haven't countered anything or provided any real argument

so i mean.. it doesn't really matter what goes on in the rest of the obd if you're not personally taking any part in it

but yeah all those made up numbers about megaton durability are bullshit and it doesn't really matter how many people like to pretend they're not.. the number of people who believe shit isn't what makes it true



LineageCold said:


> I hate to spam this exquisite thread.
> 
> You also have kakazu who Tanked/survived Nabi Paw slam (which is in the single digit megaton)



dunno what this is supposed to be proving 



tkpirate said:


> Kabuto can use that sound genjutsu.luffy can't get out of that.also he can summon single digit gigaton or atleast triple digit megaton V2 Manda.i think Kabuto can win this.



conqueror's haki easily breaks that illusion

+ all these numbers about gigatons and shit have been pulled out of someone's ass


----------



## LineageCold (May 12, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> True that true that but Kabuto might not be that durable although he has better regen.




Why would "Sage mode kabuto" be less durable than kakazu? ( he wasn't even wearing his iron skin at that time & he still outright tanked it).


----------



## tkpirate (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> conqueror's haki easily breaks that illusion
> 
> + all these numbers about gigatons and shit have been pulled out of someone's ass



first part is just fanfiction.we have a feat and a accepted calc for that.


----------



## Lurko (May 12, 2014)

Homestuck you gotta believe in calcs to even be taken serious here, until then I'm not goona take you serious but I'm sure you don't give a darn 

By the way I've been giving you posts saying Kabuto could win using genjustu,  Manda two or Edo tensei.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> first part is just fanfiction.we have a feat and a accepted calc for that.



nope

nothing about that genjutsu would stop the use of haki and kabuto is a weak willed little stray puppy who has no chance of resisting it



Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Homestuck you gotta believe in calcs to even be taken serious here, until then I'm not goona take you serious but I'm sure you don't give a darn



i'd believe in realistic calcs no problem

but anyone who thinks there's ever been a gigaton attack in the narutoverse is fucking dreaming


----------



## Lurko (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> nope
> 
> nothing about that genjutsu would stop the use of haki and kabuto is a weak willed little stray puppy who has no chance of resisting it
> 
> ...



Why is a gigaton calc so hard to believe?  Fucking Rs on his deathbed could make the moon and put it into orbit so I don't see why it's so unbelievable.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Why is a gigaton calc so hard to believe?  Fucking Rs on his deathbed could make the moon and put it into orbit so I don't see why it's so unbelievable.



it has nothing to do with being believable

it has everything to do with whether it's actually happened or not

and it hasn't 

a 50 megaton explosion breaks windows 500 miles away.. no such thing ever happened in naruto.. so i think we would notice a 1000 megaton explosion without the need for some halfassed blog post with retarded calcs


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> nope
> 
> nothing about that genjutsu would stop the use of haki and kabuto is a weak willed little stray puppy who has no chance of resisting it



nope,Haki can't break you out of genjutsu.Kabuto's will is enough to resist a power that works only on fodders.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> nope,Haki can't break you out of genjutsu.Kabuto's will is enough to resist a power that works only on fodders.



maybe your fanfiction version of kabuto who didn't spend his entire life serving someone else and desperately trying to figure out his identity

fodder has nothing to do with it



tkpirate said:


> yeah,you should go back to MVC.



that's an amazing counter argument to scientific facts set in stone by real scientists in the real world

i'm sorry that you want kabuto to win so badly that you've deluded yourself into thinking he can tank explosions that are 20 times more powerful than the strongest nuke ever tested by man

but he's not going to


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it has nothing to do with being believable
> 
> it has everything to do with whether it's actually happened or not
> 
> ...



When has such a thing happened in 90% or more of the stuff calced at that level or higher?


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Sabl?s said:


> Christ almighty.
> 
> Haki allows the user to grab "Logia" like intangibles across fiction. With equalization, they are allowed to hit intangible beings with similar properties to a logia, Chaos from Sonic is one such example.



Isn't Chaos Naturally water though?



Sabl?s said:


> Don't see the point of scaling like tiers when Naruto doesn't work that way as  a verse. Pain getting one-shotted by rasengan anyone?



Pein was on his last leg during that. Unless you're going to suggest that Rasengan > Shinra Tensei.



Homestuck said:


> what do the calcs say about luffy one-shotting manda 2 with a fist to the head and then eating him like he does to every other giant monster ever?



Association fallacy.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> When has such a thing happened in 90% or more of the stuff calced at that level or higher?



that should be a big hint that 90% of those calcs are utter bullshit

not a hint that the real world numbers recorded from actual explosions are wrong

gee i wonder who's more reliable.. some pony fan who blogs about naruto or actual nuclear scientists who blew shit up and measured what happened

it's a mystery 



LazyWaka said:


> Association fallacy.



don't use terms you don't understand pls


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> that should be a big hint that 90% of those calcs are utter bullshit
> 
> not a hint that the real world numbers recorded from actual explosions are wrong
> 
> ...



Clearly those blasts must not even be building level. Even building level blasts creates shock waves. 



Homestuck said:


> don't use terms you don't understand pls



Clearly you're the one who doesn't understand it. Your basis for him beating Manda 2 is because he beats up giant monsters while completely ignoring that none of those monsters have done anything even remotely close to flipping an island sized object.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> maybe your fanfiction version of kabuto who didn't spend his entire life serving someone else and desperately trying to figure out his identity
> 
> fodder has nothing to do with it



it dosen't mean he has weak will,he is a high tier in Naruto.so CoQ isn't working on him,which only works on fodders.again luffy wouldn't be able to break out of genjutsu.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> it dosen't mean he has weak will,he is a high tier in Naruto.so CoQ isn't working on him,which only works on fodders.again luffy wouldn't be able to break out of genjutsu.



it's nice that you keep repeating this nonsense but yeah.. being high tier has nothing to do with resistance to conqueror haki

it's all about will and kabuto has been characterized as one of the weakest willed characters in the series

i mean you can keep ignoring that and pretend he wasn't orochimaru's lost little bitchboy for his entire life.. you can have some fantasy about how kabuto is a leader type and not a subordinate type.. but then we're straying into your fanfics and i haven't read those.. i've only read naruto



LazyWaka said:


> Clearly you're the one who doesn't understand it. Your basis for him beating Manda 2 is because he beats up giant monsters while completely ignoring that none of those monsters have done anything even remotely close to flipping an island sized object.



remind me what the size of his head has to do with the strength of his body and his ability to turn floating corpses over, which is actually extremely easy


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> remind me what the size of his head has to do with the strength of his body and his ability to turn floating corpses over, which is actually extremely easy



Floating corpse?


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> i'm sorry that you want kabuto to win so badly that you've deluded yourself into thinking he can tank explosions that are 20 times more powerful than the strongest nuke ever tested by man
> 
> but he's not going to



what the fuck are you talking?when did i say anything about Kabuto tanking anything?



Homestuck said:


> it's nice that you keep repeating this nonsense but yeah.. being high tier has nothing to do with resistance to conqueror haki
> it's all about will and kabuto has been characterized as one of the weakest willed characters in the series
> i mean you can keep ignoring that and pretend he wasn't orochimaru's lost little bitchboy for his entire life.. you can have some fantasy about how kabuto is a leader type and not a subordinate type.. but then we're straying into your fanfics and i haven't read those.. i've only read naruto



nope,it's you who is making fanfics here,show me scans where Kabuto is characterized as the weakest willed character in the series.only working under someone dosen't make anyone weak willed.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

It's like saying ace was weak willed because of his daddy issues.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> It's like saying ace was weak willed because of his daddy issues.



lol right.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

In any case. CoC so far has shown to be nothing more than generic fodder killer. Might as well say that Kabuto can solo the WB pirates because he put a stadium of fodder to sleep with Genjutsu.


----------



## Vicotex (May 13, 2014)

Can luffy punch Tobi?


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Vicotex said:


> Can luffy punche Tobi?



No. CoA only works on elemental dispersion. It wont work on true intangibility (well, unless it shows otherwise in the future.)


----------



## Vicotex (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> No. CoA only works on elemental dispersion. It wont work on true intangibility (well, unless it shows otherwise in the future.)



what about suijutsu?


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Luffy will be able to hit Suigetsu.Kabuto's and his ability is same.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

unless Suigetsu is made of sea water


----------



## Piecesis (May 13, 2014)

MusubiKazesaru said:


> unless Suigetsu is made of sea water



You're joking right?


----------



## Vicotex (May 13, 2014)

Its kinda hard to imagine


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> I hate to spam this exquisite thread.
> 
> You also have kakazu who Tanked/survived Nabi Paw slam (which is in the single digit megaton)


[sp][/sp]

Kakashi's raikiri pierced kakuzu's body like butter, and i'm sure as hell it's not megaton level.
Heck, nardo's incomplete frs fucked kakuzu'd body and it was calced to be multi block+ iirc.


Wow, So much wrong in this dome.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it has nothing to do with being believable
> 
> it has everything to do with whether it's actually happened or not
> 
> ...




  

also can anyone explain to me how haki ended up being effective against elemental dispersion across fictions?


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

Let's just scale everyone to Mach 300


----------



## shade0180 (May 13, 2014)

wow more noobs are getting butthurt and coming out because of this nardo calcs.


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

What mach 300?
You mean that debunked frs2.0 shit?


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> What mach 300?
> You mean that debunked frs2.0 shit?



The giant FRS calc isn't legit?


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

Yes, it is not.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

did homestuck just now discovered obd or something?

stick to the webcomics section man


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Yes, it is not.



I see.

Now lets just scale Kabuto to the Kurama's BB speed


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Yes, it is not.



nah,it's alright.and why aren't you using your original account?


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Look, instead of throwing mud at each other, why don't you just link the calculations so Homestuck can critique them. If he hasn't even seen the calc, can you blame him for not believing you?


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> nah,it's alright.and why aren't you using your original account?



No it is not.
It is about as legit as naruto being considered a good manga.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (May 13, 2014)

Kabuto wins in ways already explained in the thread.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> No it is not.



lol ok debunked.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> he believes in _real scientists in the real world_ and not on half assed blog posts with retarded calcs
> 
> and that automatically makes all his "critiques " valid



Shut up and link the calcs. You can mock him _after_ you've shown the numbers have basis. You can't blame someone for not listening to hearsay.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> ITS NOT REAL ITS NOT BREAKING WINDOW 10000 MILES AWAY
> 
> DEBUNKED
> 
> ...



>stand up to a cat who can destroy 6 cities with one slap
>get injured by a human hand

kakashi confirmed multiversal dc


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Shut up and link the calcs. You can mock him _after_ you've shown the numbers have basis. You can't blame someone for not listening to hearsay.


if you've actually read the thread and not go in cheerleading like an  idiot you would know that he already dismissed the calcs on the basis  that it was made by some pony fan without actually putting up a  substantial argument.



Homestuck said:


> >stand up to a cat who can destroy 6 cities with one slap
> >get injured by a human hand
> 
> kakashi confirmed multiversal dc


what human hand?


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> >stand up to a cat who can destroy 6 cities with one slap
> >get injured by a human hand



that Kakuzu stuff is probably wrong anyway.but from where are you getting 6 cities from?also link the scan where Kakashi injured him with his hand.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> still waiting for you to post arguments why it's utterly retarded other than just dismissing it entirely just because.
> 
> 
> if you've actually read the thread and not go in cheerleading like an  idiot you would know that he already dismissed the calcs on the basis  that it was made by some pony fan without actually putting up a  substantial argument.
> ...



And scanning through the thread you still haven't linked the calcs. For all he knows fluttershy just made those values up. I'm sure the blog will have latent heat and all that stuff from "real scientists" that Homestuck can look into. Mock him all you like after you've linked the calcs, but if you do it before it just looks like you don't like criticism.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> And scanning through the thread you still haven't linked the calcs. For all he knows fluttershy just made those values up. I'm sure the blog will have latent heat and all that stuff from "real scientists" that Homestuck can look into. Mock him all you like after you've linked the calcs, but if you do it before it just looks like you don't like criticism.


read between the lines. he is referring to the calcs as blog posts so most likely he's already seen the calcs. I don't know what calc he was referring to anyway. even then, it's not about a specific calc but his attitude to calcs in obd in general.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> still waiting for you to post arguments why it's utterly retarded other than just dismissing it entirely just because.



you know exactly why i said it's bullshit and you're pretending you don't because you know it shows how retarded the shit you believe is

"LOL GIGATON EXPLOSIONS DON'T HAVE TO DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS 50 MEGATON EXPLOSIONS DO IRL LOL NOOB LOL NOOB LOL NOOB"

awesome argument ugotthar



Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> what human hand?



i'm sorry i can't hear you playing dumb over the sound of kakashi busting continents


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you know exactly why i said it's bullshit and you're pretending you don't because you know it shows how retarded the shit you believe is
> 
> "LOL GIGATON EXPLOSIONS DON'T HAVE TO DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS 50 MEGATON EXPLOSIONS DO IRL LOL NOOB LOL NOOB LOL NOOB"
> 
> awesome argument ugotthar


what gigaton explosion didn't do as much damage as 50 megaton explosion are you referring to? you can't dismiss it just because it didn't have shockwaves, what about crater size and and fireball?





> i'm sorry i can't hear you playing dumb over the sound of kakashi busting continents


it was a legitimate question btw but sure if you want to sidestep it to avoid formulating an actual argument then be my guest.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

you're just shit-talking at this point, have fun with that



TwentyFifthNight said:


> Actually, it's about 56 time stronger than that at a minimum.



you're right

haha oh wow this shit just gets even more hilarious

so going by these 100% legit calcs, kakashi could destroy hiroshima more than 56 times over with one raikiri

math is truly amazing


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

@jetwaterluffy1, he thinks there are no gigaton feats in Naruto.sometimes it's hard to find Naruto calcs,because 2 or 3 guys make these calcs.here is one:-http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19982#


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

numbers pulled directly out of an ass


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> numbers pulled directly out of an ass



Did you read it? I can see a few potential problems but you can't just dismiss it off-hand for no reason.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you're just shit-talking at this point, have fun with that



uhh no. 



> you're right
> 
> haha oh wow this shit just gets even more hilarious
> 
> ...


it's kinda like with luffy being less effective in dealing with piercing attacks than blunt attacks. it's not that kakashi is doing more damage but because his attack is concentrated on one point as opposed to an attack being divided on the whole body.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> uhh no.
> 
> 
> it's kinda like with luffy being less effective in dealing with piercing attacks than blunt attacks. it's not that kakashi is doing more damage but because his attack is concentrated on one point as opposed to an attack being divided on the whole body.



ah so 56 hiroshimas in the palm of a cat's hand isn't a concentrated attack

i see

such wisdom

teach me how to calc pls


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> did you ever get around to calculating the speed of red miles in cascade yet?
> 
> apparently we're going to need it for kakashi
> 
> ...



Which particular number in that calc would you say is asspulled?


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

talk about a non sequitur. what does that have to do with a piercing attack doing being more efficient than a blunt force attack?


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Which particular number in that calc would you say is asspulled?



the explosion diameter is a great place to start

nothing outside those spheres is ever affected, they're not just the fireballs at the center of the explosion, they're the entire explosion, shockwave and all

a real gigaton explosion would be fucking things up for hundreds of miles around the ball

any argument that "well maybe most of the energy is just heat" is just as weak, if that was the case shit would be getting burned for over a hundred miles even more badly than by a nuke

and where is the tsunami from a supposedly 7 gigaton explosion beside the water?

"oh well there just isn't one because it's a manga"

no, there just isn't one because those explosions have nowhere NEAR the power that people like fluttershy like to attribute to them

tell me how much of that math you actually understand without having to take fluttershy's highly dubious word for it while completely abandoning any sense of rational thought and knowledge of the kind of shit that actually happens when explosions of that supposed scale take place in reality

"oh but it's not reality"

yeah and those aren't gigaton explosions



Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> talk about a non sequitur. what does that have to do with a piercing attack doing being more efficient than a blunt force attack?



you're right, 56 cities focused on an area a few feet wide isn't a pinpoint attack



Nightbringer said:


> unoutrunnable+



finally a realistic calc


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> the explosion diameter is a great place to start
> 
> nothing outside those spheres is ever affected, they're not just the fireballs at the center of the explosion, they're the entire explosion, shockwave and all
> 
> ...


Well a simple solution to that would be that these things simply haven't happened yet. We don't know then this picture was taken, and we don't see what happens to the explosion after that frame, it may well cause a massive shockwave and tsunami and all that jazz afterwards. Or maybe the energy disappears after that point due to special Bjiuu magic. But your claim was not that other effects were inconsistent with that kind of energy, your claim was that the results were pulled out of nowhere. Those are two different things. But it's good to see you giving reasons for not accepting it rather than dismissing it off-hand.



> tell me how much of that math you actually understand without having to take fluttershy's highly dubious word for it while completely abandoning any sense of rational thought and knowledge of the kind of shit that actually happens when explosions of that supposed scale take place in reality



How much it do I understand? All of it.
How could I see potential problems if I didn't understand what I was reading? I'll go through for you if you like.


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you're right, 56 cities focused on an area a few feet wide isn't a pinpoint attack


I don't a have a clue what the fuck you're saying anymore. yes it wouldn't be a concentrated attack since the paw is bigger than kakuzu's body.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 13, 2014)

tbh I haven't actually read any of those old bijuu calcs in awhile.

which one was it?


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Well a simple solution to that would be that these things simply haven't happened yet. We don't know then this picture was taken, and we don't see what happens to the explosion after that frame, it may well cause a massive shockwave and tsunami and all that jazz afterwards. Or maybe the energy disappears after that point due to special Bjiuu magic. But your claim was not that other effects were inconsistent with that kind of energy, your claim was that the results were pulled out of nowhere. Those are two different things. But it's good to see you giving reasons for not accepting it rather than dismissing it off-hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



maybe you do as you can see problems with it but it's blatantly obvious the rest of these guys don't

and no, the fact that the nature of the explosions is far too vague in the first place is a valid reason why any numbers being attached to them are pulled out of nowhere

also in the juubi arc we have seen the surrounding area after some of these explosions went off, with a huge crowd of people standing well within 100 miles

if they were actual gigaton fireballs then everybody around them would be incinerated

they weren't.. making it blatantly obvious these explosions just don't have anywhere near that kind of power

and if some of the energy is disappearing by bijuu magic as you suggest then that still takes away from the total energy actually being released.. but it's a kind of convoluted way of coming to the same conclusion.. that that amount of energy just isn't being released in the first place





Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> I don't a have a clue



no.. really??


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

correct me if I'm wrong but that calc didn't account for any of those, only how much volume is destroyed and the debris being flung up.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> tbh I haven't actually read any of those old bijuu calcs in awhile.
> 
> which one was it?



it was that Kyuubi's BB from flashback.thats the only bijuu's BB calc i could find.who made those 4 Gt BB calc?


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> correct me if I'm wrong but that calc didn't account for any of those, only how much volume is destroyed and the debris being flung up.



the speculative diameter of the ball is the first thing mentioned...

and the fact none of this other shit is accounted for is the reason why they can't possibly be accurate


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> also in the juubi arc we have seen the surrounding area after some of these explosions went off, with a huge crowd of people standing well within 100 miles
> if they were actual gigaton fireballs then everybody around them would be incinerated
> they weren't.. making it blatantly obvious these explosions just don't have anywhere near that kind of power



what are you talking about?scans?those people didn't got hit by bombs right?you know that they aren't normal humans and have far more durability than normal humans right?


----------



## Wolfgang Grimmer (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> the speculative diameter of the ball is the first thing mentioned...
> 
> and the fact none of this other shit is accounted for is the reason why they can't possibly be accurate


how so? never in mainstream shonen do explosions work as you should expect it to in real life. you can't really invalidate the fact that it requires that much energy to destroy that much of rock in volume or to throw the debris that high just because there were no shockwave or tsunami peresent.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> what are you talking about?scans?those people didn't got hit by bombs right?you know that they aren't normal humans and have far more durability than normal humans right?



i'm not wasting my time looking for scans of everybody standing round watching the juubi spraying balls everywhere.. when anybody current with naruto already knows it happened.. stop playing dumb just because you can't support your ridiculous side of the argument



Wolfgang Grimmer said:


> how so? never in mainstream shonen do explosions work as you should expect it to in real life. you can't really invalidate the fact that it requires that much energy to destroy that much of rock in volume or to throw the debris that high just because there were no shockwave or tsunami peresent.



that calculation had nothing to do with destroying rock

it was a ball flying across the water and ending up in a vaguely proportioned explosion that people have no way to measure


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it has nothing to do with being believable
> 
> it has everything to do with whether it's actually happened or not
> 
> ...



You realize big explosions aren't the only things with high energy release, right?
Also, completely annihilating a human sized boulder would yield values much higher than Hiroshima.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

yeah we already established kakashi's hand is a lifewiper


----------



## shade0180 (May 13, 2014)

side effect of casualty affecting anything.... in fiction really... this is a stupid argument.  It's a fucking seriously this is just nitpicking on something that is not important at all... 


those excess destruction you are talking about, side effect of explosion, shockwaves and shit, they are almost always neglected and it isn't just special cases in a manga or anime even English comic does it  example is something the DC pulled off, like nuking a town/city and next day any normal human can walk the town without any problem. or superman getting near a mob of normal human without causing any side effect after getting exposed to nuclear explosion at point blank range and has nuclear radiation all over his body, then fuck buildings he destroyed in his anger since the next day when he is calm you could see the same building standing as if he didn't just try to throw it to someone.... Looking for this shit in fiction is stupid and just retarded.  since the author won't write/draw/emphasize those unless it has a direct need for the story..


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

shade0180 said:


> side effect of casualty affecting anything.... in fiction really... this is a stupid argument.  It's a fucking trope seriously this is just nitpicking on something that is not important at all...
> 
> 
> those excess destruction you are talking about, side effect of explosion, shockwaves and shit, they are almost always neglected and it isn't just special cases in a manga or anime even English comic does it  example is something the DC pulled off, like nuking a town/city and next day any normal human can walk the town without any problem. or superman getting near a mob of normal human without causing any side effect after getting exposed to nuclear explosion at point blank range and has nuclear radiation all over his body, then fuck buildings he destroyed in his anger since the next day when he is calm you could see the same building standing as if he didn't just tried to throw it to someone.... Looking for this shit in fiction is stupid and just retarded.  since the author won't write/draw/emphasize those unless it has a direct need for the story..



that's nice but i'm not the one pretending to have accurate calcs of ridiculous shit that is obviously nowhere near realistic

you can't use "it doesn't have to be realistic" as an excuse to defend the flaws in the calcs that you're the one trying to claim are realistic in the first place


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> the speculative diameter of the ball is the first thing mentioned...
> 
> and the fact none of this other shit is accounted for is the reason why they can't possibly be accurate


They link to a blog (which links to a blog) which explains the explosion diameter, it isn't purely speculative.. Here they are:


Of course, the 10m tree size assumption at the start _is_ a bit speculative, but the explosion size wasn't just pulled out of nowhere.


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> i'm not wasting my time looking for scans of everybody standing round watching the juubi spraying balls everywhere.. when anybody current with naruto already knows it happened.. stop playing dumb just because you can't support your ridiculous side of the argument



Answer this question, then.
The Bijuu Balls Naruto deflected when he was fighting the five bijuu, are they mountain level?


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> i'm not wasting my time looking for scans of everybody standing round watching the juubi spraying balls everywhere.. when anybody current with naruto already knows it happened.. stop playing dumb just because you can't support your ridiculous side of the argument



lol so i should just believe what you're saying?also the distance between Juubi's BB explosion and alliance was far morethan 100 miles.so again you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> They link to a blog (which links to a blog) which explains the explosion diameter, it isn't purely speculative.. Here they are:
> 
> 
> Of course, the 10m tree size assumption at the start _is_ a bit speculative, but the explosion size wasn't just pulled out of nowhere.



you missed the point

you can't measure those balls when what they are is so vague.. what's being measured? a fireball or the furthest reach of a main shockwave?

we know it's not a fireball or everything would be getting burnt around it, so any measurement treating it as such is wrong

and we know that if it's the furthest reach of a shockwave then the explosion itself has to be much smaller.. so again any measurement of it is wrong





tkpirate said:


> lol so i should just believe what you're saying?also the distance between Juubi's BB explosion and alliance was far morethan 100 miles.so again you don't know what you're talking about.



yeah when those balls fell down inbetween the juubi and the people fighting it they were hundreds of miles away

from the thing they were fighting

sure.. you bet


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you missed the point
> 
> you can't measure those balls when what they are is so vague.. what's being measured? a fireball or the furthest reach of a main shockwave?



What is being measured is the size of a rock being lifted by the explosion, the height it was lifted, and the distance it was from the epicentre at the time. The main function of using that big round thing is just to find the distance from the rock from the epicentre, whatever the thing is does not make any difference to the results.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> yeah when those balls fell down inbetween the juubi and the people fighting it they were hundreds of miles away
> 
> from the thing they were fighting
> 
> sure.. you bet



what the fuck are you talking about?there was no Juubi BB explosion inbetween Juubi and the alliance.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

of course not



jetwaterluffy1 said:


> What is being measured is the size of a rock being lifted by the explosion, the height it was lifted, and the distance it was from the epicentre at the time. The main function of using that big round thing is just to find the distance from the rock from the epicentre, whatever the thing is does not make any difference to the results.



i was getting sidetracked talking about calcs that are measuring the explosions but yeah.. with this one you have no idea what that debris is either

how can anybody seriously think they're calculating the force it takes to lift something that they don't even know the weight of?

these numbers are a joke in every way.. we could just keep going right down the list and find problems with pretty much everything

but mannn before i go to bed tonight i'm going to wank so hard over kakashi's planetbusting feats

i'm going to need a calc just to figure out how many paper towels i'll need to clean up all the jizz


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> of course not
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True, the density of 2700kgm^-3 was assumed. But if you look at various rock densities, they are all at the 3000ish mark in density.  (the table is in cgs units)


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 13, 2014)

You never answered my questions, Homestuck.
Don't worry, take your time, I'll wait.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> of course not



be clear about what you're saying,you're not making any sense.


----------



## Karashi (May 13, 2014)

Observation Haki > Sage Mode Prediction. 

Luffy fucks up Kabuto badly her.


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you're not looking hard enough



dude,stop trolling or lying and start giving some evidence about what you're saying.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> you're not looking hard enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Soil and foliage doesn't get to 500m thick.


> also nightbringer's measurement of the end of that wake was 1 pixel
> 
> it's actually between 4 and 8 depending on whether you count the black outline or not, possibly even more


Agreed, actually that was one of my potential problems. I don't know where that 1 pix come from. Also, the calc seems to assume the thing is the same width the whole way along, and it is possible the further bits of that water trough simply haven't expanded the same distance yet.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Soil and foliage doesn't get to 500m thick.


it could still be a mixture of rock with a lot of soil and trees and stuff on it, making it weigh significantly less than rock

it seems more likely than it being all rock anyway

it's also probably not 500m thick considering all this pixel stuff


jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Agreed, actually that was one of my potential problems. I don't know where that 1 pix come from. Also, the calc seems to assume the thing is the same width the whole way along, and it is possible the further bits of that water trough simply haven't expanded the same distance yet.



yeah it's actually impossible for it to be the same at both ends

even after it had time to expand, the closest part would've kept expanding too so they'd still be uneven


----------



## tkpirate (May 13, 2014)

the calc i linked is actually one of the irrelevant BB calc,because i couldn't find the other BB calcs.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 13, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> it could still be a mixture of rock with a lot of soil and trees and stuff on it, making it weigh significantly less than rock
> 
> it seems more likely than it being all rock anyway
> 
> it's also probably not 500m thick considering all this pixel stuff


If 10% of the thing is soil, it's hardly going to make a huge difference. Soil would be more likely to burn up than rock anyway (meaning you can't see it by then).


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Kakashi's raikiri pierced kakuzu's body like butter, and i'm sure as hell it's not megaton level.
> Heck, nardo's incomplete frs fucked kakuzu'd body and it was calced to be multi block+ iirc.



First off, piercing vs blunt.

Second, Kakuzu's Douton is weak to lightning.

Third, Kakuzu didn't have his douton armor when hit by Naruto's FRS.


----------



## LineageCold (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> [sp][/sp]
> 
> Kakashi's raikiri pierced kakuzu's body like butter, and i'm sure as hell it's not megaton level.
> Heck, nardo's incomplete frs fucked kakuzu'd body and it was calced to be multi block+ iirc.
> ...




At least act like you know something .


----------



## LineageCold (May 13, 2014)

I still honestly don't see how folks find it hard to believe "Sm kabuto" durability isn't being scaled to base kisame without his Samehada.

This is quite ridiculous if you ask me


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

SM Kabuto being comparable to Kisame in durability is actually quite likely when I think about it.


----------



## LineageCold (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> SM Kabuto being comparable to Kisame in durability is actually quite likely when I think about it.



Although power scaling in naruto verse isn't as straightforward as the others.


"Sm kabuto" durability not being scaled/equal to somebody of base kisame level is quite laughable.


----------



## MusubiKazesaru (May 13, 2014)

I'm find with him getting Kisame scaling in durability


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

And what's Kisame's durability?


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Single digit megatons I believe for surviving Gai's afternoon tiger.


----------



## LineageCold (May 13, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> And what's Kisame's durability?



Arguably in the megatons.


Or, 50 megaton+ for surviving a Afternoon tiger (scaled to FRS) to the face. (Although he was almost completely out of chakra when he got hit ) but I doubt he tanked it all


----------



## Chad (May 13, 2014)

Plus, Kabuto becomes even more difficult to kill with the 4 forms of regeneration he has.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> Arguably in the megatons.
> 
> 
> Or, 50 megaton+ for surviving a Afternoon tiger (scaled to FRS) to the face. (*Although he was almost completely out of chakra when he got hit* ) but I doubt he tanked it all



He was?


----------



## Chad (May 13, 2014)

Can barely move =\= out of chakra

He was still able to make several water sharks shortly afterwards


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

Astral if you agree with all this scaling in Nardo then why don't you agree with the Admirals getting scaled to Chinjao?


----------



## LineageCold (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> He was?




Forget what I said. I assumed he was out of chakra at that time (his bones wasn't crushed, so I assumed he was out of chakra,hence why he couldn't move) especially not having his Samehada(his chakra tank pool with him)

But like I said. I was just assuming .


----------



## Chad (May 13, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Astral if you agree with all this scaling in Nardo then why don't you agree with the Admirals getting scaled to Chinjao?



I do 

Issho is questionable though  I just cant imagine the guy pulling down a gigaton meteor


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

The admirals don't get scaled to Chinjoa?


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

^He was bitching about them getting scaled to him 



> Issho is questionable though I just cant imagine the guy pulling down a gigaton meteor



He doesn't just drop meteors though.


----------



## Foxve (May 13, 2014)

Kabuto can win this if he plays his cards right. Regen, limited control of the environment, ability to drown luffy (water jutsu), can harden his body to a degree ( with kimmimaro's bone ability. May or may not really make a difference), flute genjustsu, etc. 

Luffy takes this though if he starts of with his haki based attacks.......


----------



## Chad (May 13, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> ^He was bitching about them getting scaled to him
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't just drop meteors though.



Are the admirals suggested to be _physically_ stronger than CJ as well?


----------



## Dellinger (May 13, 2014)

Astral said:


> Are the admirals suggested to be _physically_ stronger than CJ as well?



They should be really close to him.

One could take a smacking from a pissed off WB,stop a full swing from his bisento etc

As I've said in another thread,the strongest characters in OP are well balanced fighters,even those with DFs.Just take Doflamingo as an example.


----------



## Lurko (May 13, 2014)

White Hawk said:


> Astral if you agree with all this scaling in Nardo then why don't you agree with the Admirals getting scaled to Chinjao?



Pretty sure everyone was fine with it although prime garp was the one to overpower it.


----------



## Byrd (May 13, 2014)

They obviously do


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

LineageCold said:


> At least act like you know something .



That's cute and all, but that doesn't make your claim less hilarious. :33

Nibi's bb's are just town level btw, so it's pretty stupid to claim that its fucking paws pack city levels worth of energy.
And its fireballs are lolbuilding level. 

Also, iirc, the consensus at that time was that nobody did tank any of the fuckers heavy attacks.


Also, lolflutter.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Nibi's bb's are just town level btw, so it's pretty stupid to claim that its fucking paws pack city levels worth of energy.
> And its fireballs are lolbuilding level.



Um, since when were the Nibi's BB's only town level? 

Nibi is physically comparable to the other Bijuu. Other Bijuu have city level striking power.


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Um, since when were the Nibi's BB's only town level?
> 
> Nibi is physically comparable to the other Bijuu. Other Bijuu have city level striking power.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

That wasn't a BB, that was just a generic fireball.


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

Blog name = nibi bijuu bomb. 
Still Doesn't make her city level though(or close, like is claiming) since aside from the fact that the damage done in that fight doesn't indicate that much strength, she's not a perfect jin at the time.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

TwentyFifthNight said:


> Blog name = nibi bijuu bomb.



That was back when we thought that fireball was Nibi's version of the BB. We now know that is not the case.


----------



## Lurko (May 13, 2014)

It wasn't a Bijuubomb.


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> That was back when we thought that fireball was Nibi's version of the BB. We now know that is not the case.



Look at my edit.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 13, 2014)

Yugito is able to fully transform into her Bijuu. So I don't see why that matters. Other Bijuu have city level strength and Nibi is comparable to them.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

lol these people still believing nonsense





jetwaterluffy1 said:


> If 10% of the thing is soil, it's hardly going to make a huge difference. Soil would be more likely to burn up than rock anyway (meaning you can't see it by then).



and again that's why the fact they don't burn the things they should can affect the numbers

plus when we say soil would be more likely to burn up we also have to say rock would be less likely to be thrown up

if it really was rock instead of soil then the chances of everything around it being devastated by shockwaves is much more likely.. but it just doesn't happen

we can't just dismiss knowledge like that and make random guesses.. it's knowledge like that that should be behind the guesses in the first place


----------



## Darth Niggatron (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Yugito is able to fully transform into her Bijuu. So I don't see why that matters. Other Bijuu have city level strength and Nibi is comparable to them.


Full Bijuu transformation=/=BM, though.
Gaara's an example.


----------



## TwentyFifthNight (May 13, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> Yugito is able to fully transform into her Bijuu. So I don't see why that matters. Other Bijuu have city level strength and Nibi is comparable to them.


There's a difference, waka.
The defining line between is that they are incomplete, duh.
So they should be inferior to actual perfect jins. (It's not like we have enough data of imperfect jins to be able to scale them to perfect jins anyway)
And the notion of bijuu's having city level strength is deeply rooted from their size And thanks to frs speed.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 13, 2014)

No restriction on kabuto lmao.

After luffy gets taken care of he finds some random fodder brings him back as a edo uses a jutsu to go to one piece planet, and precedes to stomp the rest of one piece creating more edos along the way.


----------



## brolmes (May 13, 2014)

that feel when no one has a counter to kabuto and his edos getting knocked out by conqueror's haki because they're all weak willed pussy cats


----------



## Fujita (May 13, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Why should we equalize when they don't equalize any of their shit? Fuck that.



Yeah, much as I hate to ruin this "they didn't share their cake so we won't give them any of ours" train of thought

This doesn't really have much to do with equalization 

It's pretty much the opposite, actually 

Haki specifically doesn't work by countering the Devil Fruit mechanism itself. So? That means that it has some property that lets you "harm" Logia-like intangibles. It acts against the intangible person themselves, not whatever is making them intangible. If the mechanism was important (i.e. if it worked against the DFs themselves), then it would be a question of equalization, but it's not.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 13, 2014)

I vaguely recall something about haki bringing the true body to the forefront to hit or something.

is that right?


----------



## Fujita (May 13, 2014)

Oh god wasn't there some thing about how Logias have a true body somewhere in hyperspace which Haki lets you hit 

Or was that just something Mike argued about in a blog 

Anyway, that sounds familiar but I can't remember where it was exactly


----------



## shade0180 (May 13, 2014)

Not sure I haven't heard of it in the manga...


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 13, 2014)

I think robin said it

quick get someone like white hawk on it


----------



## Lurko (May 13, 2014)

I don't know Haki is the most confusing thing in op but yeah I think I read something about Haki allowing Haki users to hit the real body, I'm goona do some research.


----------



## Byrd (May 13, 2014)

Fujita said:


> Oh god wasn't there some thing about how Logias have a true body somewhere in hyperspace which Haki lets you hit
> 
> Or was that just something Mike argued about in a blog
> 
> Anyway, that sounds familiar but I can't remember where it was exactly



 that was Crimsonshade


----------



## Fujita (May 13, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> I think robin said it



Oh

oh wait

that is like the exact scene I'm thinking of 



I don't think that really means much of anything at all for "equalizing" Haki 

I mean, it doesn't transform the body back in order to hurt it, so the "real body" should only be some kind of hazy this-is-what-this-guy-should-be-if-he-wasn't-currently-sand sort of deal 

Which is a vague as fuck mechanic that we probably shouldn't overthink


----------



## Byrd (May 13, 2014)

It just allow you to grab them as if they were a real person... thats how I see it


----------



## Regicide (May 14, 2014)

What the fuck is even going on in the first ten pages of this thread?


----------



## shade0180 (May 14, 2014)

Basically some guy complaining and getting butthurt about accepted calc...


----------



## Volt manta (May 14, 2014)

How'd this develop into Manda2 vs Luffy?...
I see...an otherwise perfectly good thread derailed... by Homestuck. Seems like this is going to be a recurring theme.


----------



## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

So I just actually read the first 10 pages in their entirety 

I don't know how we get energies from most of these things where Naruto is concerned, but I figure that _if_ you're doing something reasonable (like getting potential energy from debris in a calc process that's not as... flawed as the one we're looking at here ) to get an energy value, asking why it doesn't do more collateral damage than what it's shown is like asking why it doesn't have more energy than it has. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Of course you have to handwave the magic balls of destruction a bit. 

Though do we use the nuke calculator on this stuff? Because then collateral might actually matter though I dunno how much energy actually goes into these things. 



jetwaterluffy1 said:


> Soil and foliage doesn't get to 500m thick.



That's being a bit generous in assuming that we're looking at the debris like a cross section from the side 

A large amount of soil and foilage could certainly get to 500 m (by whatever larger number of meters the length was) _wide_. Not like the explosion isn't covering a big enough area that a 500 m x something x something else square of ground couldn't get plowed up and sent flying

And there's no particular reason why we wouldn't be looking at it from some skewed angle given that it's been completely blasted up into the air, yes?

inb4 jet never actually reads this


----------



## Monna (May 15, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> that feel when no one has a counter to kabuto and his edos getting knocked out by conqueror's haki because they're all weak willed pussy cats


I don't think you understand how haki works. If what you claim were the case, then Luffy could have used the haki of kings to stop someone such as Caesar Clown and be done with with. Instead, Luffy still had to fight Caesar with his fists and his other haki abilities. Kabuto shouldn't be any different.


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 15, 2014)

Fujita said:


> So I just actually read the first 10 pages in their entirety
> 
> I don't know how we get energies from most of these things where Naruto is concerned, but I figure that _if_ you're doing something reasonable (like getting potential energy from debris in a calc process that's not as... flawed as the one we're looking at here ) to get an energy value, asking why it doesn't do more collateral damage than what it's shown is like asking why it doesn't have more energy than it has. Doesn't make much sense to me.
> 
> ...


500m is the smaller dimension. In the other direction it is 800m. It seems less likely that the debris piece is a flat thing than roughly the same size in all directions the fact nearby rocks are a similar size helps too. If it _is_ that thin, that would make more of a difference than its density, since it would mean the volume has been significantly overestimated. 


Homestuck said:


> lol these people still believing nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The main reason why it probably isn't soil is that soil generally doesn't go that deep, the burnup stuff is just an aside. As for the shockwave, would the shockwave be visible in this picture? I actually don't know. But we don't know when this picture was taken. The shockwave may not have expanded that far yet.


----------



## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

jetwaterluffy1 said:


> 500m is the smaller dimension. In the other direction it is 800m. It seems less likely that the debris piece is a flat thing than roughly the same size in all directions the fact nearby rocks are a similar size helps too. If it _is_ that thin, that would make more of a difference than its density, since it would mean the volume has been significantly overestimated.





This is what we're looking at 

There is absolutely zero certain depth here 

(Also, the 500/800 meters are the heights at either end

length is more like 1200 meters  

which may only help your argument _if_ you assume it's the same depth)

This is a mess of pixels and I actually feel kind of silly putting it here. It could be flat, it could be a solid thing, it could be a whole lot of surface soil getting blasted up into that shape (not necessarily flat, even)

Though to be fair it's not like it's an untenable assumption that 500/800 meters is actually a diameter, and it's not outlandish to say that it's rock (given burning, I suppose)


----------



## jetwaterluffy1 (May 15, 2014)

Actually thinking about it, the with the 10m treetops possibly being 5m, and the pixels at the end possibly being 6 pix, the length scale reduces by a factor of 12. As well as this reducing the energy by a factor of 21000, this would make the debris sufficiently small that it being made of soil could be plausible.


----------



## brolmes (May 15, 2014)

Jane Crocker said:


> I don't think you understand how haki works. If what you claim were the case, then Luffy could have used the haki of kings to stop someone such as Caesar Clown and be done with with. Instead, Luffy still had to fight Caesar with his fists and his other haki abilities. Kabuto shouldn't be any different.



got linked back here by rep so i have to argue with you jane 

it would be rude to just ignore this since it's you 

kabuto is specifically characterized as being orochimaru's loyal little servant and it goes into great detail about how he's a lost and confused little puppy who doesn't know who he is or what he wants in life

that is the specific reason kabuto himself in particular would get raped by conqueror's haki

caesar is way more like orochimaru though.. he doesn't have any of those problems.. caesar was the leader of a base full of hundreds of men and slaves that he experimented on.. he had big plans to be the big dog and kill everybody.. all kabuto ever wanted was orochimaru in his body cause he didn't know what to do without him

that kind of haki is 100% about a person's strength of character and ability to assert their will over other people/resist the will of others.. literally nothing else is a factor

even in naruto that's how he was beaten.. with izanami.. put in a situation where giving up his will was the only reason he got out

he's weak as fuck in this regard



jetwaterluffy1 said:


> 500m



except we both already agreed the scale was wrong

whatever that lump of shit is, it's much smaller than that

and there's no way to do an accurate calc of it because there's no way to tell how far away it actually is, considering it's in the air and not on land


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## Fujita (May 15, 2014)

Well... that's one calc down 

Wait why was this even relevant in this thread? something about Kakashi 

idk anymore


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## Dragonus Nesha (May 15, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> that kind of haki is 100% about a person's strength of character and ability to assert their will over other people/resist the will of others.. literally nothing else is a factor


Except Kabuto  and .


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## brolmes (May 15, 2014)

somebody was trying to say that kakuzu tanked a multi megaton attack when he got slapped by that little cat bijuu in the sewers

they were trying to scale this to kabuto and say he had gigaton durability or something

somebody brought up the fact kakashi hurt kakuzu with one raikiri

linking to that retarded calc with the giant bijuu bomb exploding was somehow supposed to prove the little cat bijuu's slap had the same power

and yeah that's too funny to keep typing.. getting giddy



Doctor Crane said:


> Except Kabuto  and .



that's not orochimaru.. it's a skin graft of infectious genetic material

and nowhere did it ever say there was any kind of struggle of wills.. you can't scale it as being the same thing as when orochimaru takes over a host because it was already shown that was a specific technique that he could only do every few years under specific conditions

also as for the edos.. he uses a technique and puts a kunai in their heads.. nothing to do with his willpower

you might as well say a computer running a program is operating on your willpower just because you plugged in the usb drive it was on

also it was said the jutsu would keep going eeven if kabuto was dead

dead people don't have wills = not will related


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## Iwandesu (May 15, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> that's not orochimaru.. it's a skin graft of infectious genetic material
> 
> and nowhere did it ever say there was any kind of struggle of wills.. you can't scale it as being the same thing as when orochimaru takes over a host because it was already shown that was a specific technique that he could only do every few years under specific conditions
> 
> ...


>"Dead people" broke free EdoTensei with will alone. 
> hashi and tobirama can solo luffy with utter easy and did this too.
>Now you're just wanking


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## brolmes (May 15, 2014)

yes i'm absolutely wanking, luffy is my favorite character in fiction, i have wet dreams about him wrapping his long rubber arms around me and tbh i think one piece is objectively the greatest story ever written

dead people not having wills is explaining that kabuto's will isn't what keeps edo tensei going.. so it's not a feat of will as crane is saying

your counter is about something else and makes no sense.. besides, nobody broke free "with will alone".. but let's just pretend they did so you can explain how kabuto is going to fight with edos who break free of his control and how they're going to help him beat luffy instead of beating the shit out of kabuto

this kind of retarded bullshit is why i unsubscribed last time.. there's no point arguing with irrational mongs

nic cage neg incoming


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## Louis Cyphre (May 15, 2014)

What the fuck is going on.


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## Iwandesu (May 15, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> yes i'm absolutely wanking, luffy is my favorite character in fiction, i have wet dreams about him wrapping his long rubber arms around me and tbh i think one piece is objectively the greatest story ever written
> 
> nobody broke free "with will alone" but let's just pretend they did so you can explain how kabuto is going to fight with edos who break free of his control
> 
> ...


Lol nic Cage.
Your argument about how kabuto will be beat is "lol he is unwilled"
Then you states Edo's doesn't have will despite they having and showing it many times during the story like when they break free of Edo Tensei. 
You also ignores the fact conquerors haki never beat a anyone as strong as kabuto and this way you may reach the nlf range. 
The fact his EdoTensei are stronger than luffy with some of them even being able to completely  solo op with hax apart. 
And that he has plenty of time to summon them.


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## Monna (May 15, 2014)

Homestuck said:


> got linked back here by rep so i have to argue with you jane
> 
> it would be rude to just ignore this since it's you
> 
> ...


Except you are entirely ignoring the fact that Ceasar is far more of a "pussy cat" than Kabuto has ever been portrayed being (outside of his childhood flashbacks, obviously). He's completely subservant to Joker and during the hostage situation on Green Bit he was literally crying and screaming out for Joker to save him. Caesar has always been cowardly and in the Dressrosa arc he is reduced to nothing more than bargaining chip. If you really think Kabuto is more of a wimp than Caesar Clown then I have nothing left to argue.


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## kaminogan (May 16, 2014)

physical attacks wont work on kabuto, meaning that luffys only way of defeating him is via haki, i dont really want to talk about indefinite willpower though,

kabuto also has bone blades, rock spikes and snake teeth to counter luffy's rubber, 

kabuto can also summon water


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## LightspeedLanza (May 16, 2014)

Luffy punches a hole in Kabuto's face 10000 times over before the latter can react. Current Luffy is far faster than anyone in narutoverse.


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## tkpirate (May 16, 2014)

LightspeedLanza said:


> Luffy punches a hole in Kabuto's face 10000 times over before the latter can react. Current Luffy is far faster than anyone in narutoverse.



nope,he isn't that fast at all.try to understand what you're talking about first.


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## LazyWaka (May 16, 2014)

Luffy does have a speed advantage, just not a particularly significant one.


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## LightspeedLanza (May 16, 2014)

tkpirate said:


> nope,he isn't that fast at all.try to understand what you're talking about first.



Yes he is. He already surpassed lightning speed back in Skypeia; this was further proven in Enies Lobby when Kalifa dodged lightning too. G2 Luffy was massively faster than all of the CP9. Quad digit Mach at least. 

However, only god tiers in naruto such as current Naruto and Sasuke have reached lightning speed.


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## Byrd (May 16, 2014)

Say what? lol quad digit mach luffy


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## KaiserWombat (May 16, 2014)

Good news: I'm nearly done with exams!

Bad news: I'll have to re-adjust myself to dealing with this shit again!

Other news: this thread is disappearing in a puff of smoke!


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