# Five kage summit TSUNADE VS SASUKE



## nmwn93 (Oct 30, 2013)

location: the 5 kage meeting office
restrictions: None!! just no interference from Karin and tobi and no EmS
mood sasuke the mood he was in during the five kage summit, Tsunade: blood lusted and rational

lets put it to bed if Tsunade was present at the five kage summit when sasuke attacked I truly think she would have proceeded to beat him to a bloody pulp. first off for those of you fools that will assert that "sasuke would spam amaterasu" bite me if sasuke did use that on Tsunade it wouldn't do him any good considering she nd he would be in an inclosed space  and a full powered Tsunade punch to sasuke susanoo would break it easily and if she was already on fire then her firey hand would go through the susanoo and hit/burn sasuke with the black flames as well forcing him to release the jutsu. 

now in meetings like this it is likely Tsunade would have a katsuyu on the desk just if she is in character so if there is a small slug with her like it probably would be then that's already a plus incase Tsunade gets caught in genjutsu katsuyu could break it and she can get back to ass kicking. 

as far as speed Tsunade isn't slow. idk where that bullshit came from I think sasuke is at 4 in the ninja data book. sasuke is four so the difference here is chakra and Tsunade def has him beat in chakra reserves, look at what a weakened Tsunade cold do for oonoki's jinton with her chakra. if she decided to put that chakra in her feet for a burst of speed then what and since sasuke likes to use susanoo he will basically become a very big and breakable target. 

ninjutsu, he would need to rely on his fire jutsu because as far as we know Tsunade is also a lightning specialist too and to get cose enough for a chidori would be stupid and a sword or chidori stream attack would be met with the same thing madars sword was met with. and if she decides to fight with the chakra scalpel it only needs to be a small tap to his chest or hell maybe even his eyes. 

when it comes to summons we don't even need to have this talk Tsunade rape stomps because unlike other summons katsuyu dosent have eyes making her un effected by sasuke's sharingan and the slug is huge if it decides to divide and make clones of Tsunade and who knows we've seen katsuyu attach to ppl what if it could also attach and suffocate them as well? sasuke in my opion has no chance against the slug queen in this scenario

but what do you think if you can make a good case fr sasuke kun I will indeed acknowledge your thoughts


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## Rocky (Oct 30, 2013)

I didn't read that, because it appears you have not yet learned how punctuation works.

As for the match, Tsunade cannot avoid Amaterasu, which would most likely be present in a battle involving Mangekyou Sasuke.


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## Ersa (Oct 30, 2013)

Mangekyo Sauce is in another tier to Tsunade.

Unless she picked up V2 Ei reflexes, Amaterasu ends this as far as I'm concerned. It bypassed the regeneration of Cerberus which tanked FRS who regeneration seems pretty comparable to Tsunade if not greater (FRS to her back would be game over, Byakogo or not). A direct hit also means she can't rip off limbs and regenerate them. It doesn't help that Sasuke has much better reflexes and is faster.


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## kaminogan (Oct 30, 2013)

meh, maybe sasuke can pull of a genjutsu trick like he did against danzo ?>

like make tsunade think her byakugo is active and then attack her,

chidori spear maybe ?

thats seems like what would happen, if he doesn't  then he gets owned by aoe punches,


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## FlamingRain (Oct 30, 2013)

Sasuke's IC response to melee assaults is to activate _Susano'o_. Ay hit Sasuke through _Susano'o_, Tsunade's fist dug into Madara's when Ay's standalone strike didn't do anything. So she could probably knock out Sasuke through _Susano'o_.

There is also the possibility of Sasuke attempting to blitz like he did with the Raikage and his two bodyguards, leaving behind his own henchmen, which may end in him getting clocked when she survives his attack.

_Enton: Kagutsuchi_ circumvents _Sōzō Saisei/Byakugō no Jutsu_, though, and Sasuke is rather fond of using it. So I think it depends on Sasuke's opening move here.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 30, 2013)

Sasuke wins mid-difficulty. Tsunade could beat Hebi Sasuke, but once MS became a factor, nope.


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## Bonly (Oct 30, 2013)

Tsunade loses more times then not. MS Sasuke is on a higher level then her and has been portrayed as SM Naruto equal as well as having a good counter to Tsunade's limited move set. Unless Tsunade summons Katsuyu then I don't see her winning more times then not.


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## Mayweather (Oct 30, 2013)

Sasuke wins in Base. Mangekyo Sharingan is just rape.


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## Jagger (Oct 30, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Sasuke wins in Base. Mangekyo Sharingan is just rape.


I very much doubt that. But, MS Sasuke wins. Amaterasu is just going to be a pain to deal while fighting a skilled Uchiha such as Sasuke.


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Sasuke wins in Base. Mangekyo Sharingan is just rape.



No. Not even close, base Sasuke gets his shit wrecked hard. Even if he attempts to simply parry a strike from her, he gets his torso completely wrecked. Not even a close battle in any sense.


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## ueharakk (Oct 30, 2013)

Sasuke would need MS to win, but he'd win.  Amaterasu is not dodged by tsunade, his ribcage allows him to survive one of her punches, from that point on he'd have to up his game to V2.


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## Mercurial (Oct 31, 2013)

Sasuke blitzes and bisects with Chidori sword a pair of Tsunade thanks to Sharingan and high speed shunshin, then goes on with genjutsu and Enton. Tsunade can't hit him.


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## hunter101 (Oct 31, 2013)

sasuke should win this.


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## Enki (Oct 31, 2013)

Hebi Sasuke could possibly win. MS Sasuke is overkill.


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## The World (Oct 31, 2013)

Tsunade crushes Sasuke's inferior Susano-o and then she crushes his head

She eventually falls to Amaterasu's flames so it's a stalemate

unless she amputates the affected areas



GreenDBM90 said:


> Hebi Sasuke could possibly win. MS Sasuke is overkill.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

... This is weird. Where are all the "Amaterasu? Pfft, Tsunade tanks that shit, KO snuffs Sasuke and then turns on Byakugo for the week it takes to die out" responses?


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## hunter101 (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> ... This is weird. Where are all the "Amaterasu? Pfft, Tsunade tanks that shit, KO snuffs Sasuke and then turns on Byakugo for the week it takes to die out" responses?



sasuke should be able to kill her with his new PS.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> ... This is weird. Where are all the "Amaterasu? Pfft, Tsunade tanks that shit, KO snuffs Sasuke and then turns on Byakugo for the week it takes to die out" responses?



Tsunade tanking Amaterasu? oh, the stupidity in this post


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## tanman (Oct 31, 2013)

I think Hebi Sasuke v. Tsunade is a much more interesting match since this one just ends in Amaterasu.
So I'll opt to talk about that instead. Knowledge would be essential in a fight between Hebi Sasuke and Tsunade. If Sasuke is only vaguely aware that she is physically strong, he may attempt to tank a hit with CS2. This won't kill him, but it would certainly hurt like hell. On the other hand, if Tsunade sees her opponent as just another rookie, she won't bother putting up Byakugo and will end up cut in half. Sasuke's speed and chidori variants are incredibly lethal. If they both approach it smartly, it'll be a stalemate. Sasuke's goal will be to dismember her in any way (if that happens that fight is basically over). Tsunade's goal is to actually land a punch. If we force a conclusion, Byakugo Tsunade and CS2 Sasuke collide. This likely ends in a double K.O.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Brooks said:


> Tsunade tanking Amaterasu? oh, the stupidity in this post



Mother of Chri-... Allow me to rephrase my previous post for your belligerent dumbass: 


> ... This is weird. Where are all the "Tsunade wins by [insert wank here]" responses?


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## Aging Boner (Oct 31, 2013)

do people really rate Sasuke's intelligence so low that he isn't aware of Tsunade's strength? (he trained with Orochimaru, ofc he knows things about famous ninja like her)

she isn't hitting him, MS or not. AOE attacks? you mean when she punches the ground? gtfo.

he is so much faster than her he could just decapitate her with his sword.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Mother of Chri-... Allow me to rephrase my previous post for your belligerent dumbass:



That only applies if your stupidity allows you to know what "*dumbass" * can actually means.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Brooks said:


> That only applies if your stupidity allows you to know what "*dumbass" * can actually means.



*Adds to ignore list*

Maybe you'll learn to be more respectful over the internet by the time I ever get around to taking you off that list.


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## Brooks (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> *Adds to ignore list*
> 
> Maybe you'll learn to be more respectful over the internet by the time I ever get around to taking you off that list.



Okay, whatever.


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## LostSelf (Oct 31, 2013)

Sasuke reacted to V1 Ei's linear punch (Something Tsunade has, but slower) and counter attacked right after before he could even defend himself (something he has over her, reflexes), but stabbing her would be an stupid idea since he would be wrecked badly. However, if he counter attacks with a Chidori flowed Katana, she's done for. Not with one hit, but with the followings...

Against Ei, he used Susano'o because his speed was pressuring/was in a life or death situation. I don't think he'd need it much here, Amaterasu should take her down handily, as she won't even see it coming.


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## The World (Oct 31, 2013)

Brooks said:


> Tsunade tanking Amaterasu? oh, the stupidity in this post



She can tank it with Byakugo active

Depends on how long the Amaterasu would last and how much chakra reserve's she has in her forehead thing



Aging Boner said:


> do people really rate Sasuke's intelligence so low that he isn't aware of Tsunade's strength? (he trained with Orochimaru, ofc he knows things about famous ninja like her)
> 
> she isn't hitting him, MS or not. AOE attacks? you mean when she punches the ground? gtfo.
> 
> *he is so much faster than her he could just decapitate her with his sword.*


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## Mayweather (Oct 31, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I very much doubt that. But, MS Sasuke wins. Amaterasu is just going to be a pain to deal while fighting a skilled Uchiha such as Sasuke.



Chidori Katana or Chidori eiso disects her. She can't hit him at all.



Likes boss said:


> No. Not even close, base Sasuke gets his shit wrecked hard. Even if he attempts to simply parry a strike from her, he gets his torso completely wrecked. Not even a close battle in any sense.



Nope. Chidori variants wreck her shit. Get the fuck out.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Chidori Katana or Chidori eiso disects her. She can't hit him at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Chidori variants wreck her shit. Get the fuck out.



She dodged that tech and obliterates his body. Or she tanks his Chidori and then obliterates his body. Or she summons Katsuyu and has a giant wave of acid melt him. Or she strikes the ground and used the shockwave to disorient Sasuke and then OBLITERATES HIS body with literally her finger. Sasuke without Sussano and AMA Sasuke is not beating a Sannin.


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## Mayweather (Oct 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> She dodged that tech and obliterates his body. Or she tanks his Chidori and then obliterates his body. Or she summons Katsuyu and has a giant wave of acid melt him. Or she strikes the ground and used the shockwave to disorient Sasuke and then OBLITERATES HIS body with literally her finger. Sasuke without Sussano and AMA Sasuke is not beating a Sannin.



Yeah, just ignore that he's much faster, has the Sharingan to predict and counter her moves and can put her in a genjutsu and kill her long before she can summon anything. 

Tsunade wankers lol.


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## johnsuwey (Oct 31, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I didn't read that, because it appears you have not yet learned how punctuation works.
> 
> As for the match, Tsunade cannot avoid Amaterasu, which would most likely be present in a battle involving Mangekyou Sasuke.



I didn't read it either, so I agree with this.


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## Hero (Oct 31, 2013)

Tsunade can survive amaterasu depending on where it hits her.


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## johnsuwey (Oct 31, 2013)

Hero said:


> Tsunade can survive amaterasu depending on where it hits her.



Maybe, but she is still probably going to die.  The best she could hope to do is draw really.  Therefore, on average Sasuke wins more times than not, because it's near impossible for him to outright lose.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> *Adds to ignore list*



*Spoiler*: __ 








Don't know what you responded with, but just in case you thought it was an imaginary thing or I wasn't serious.


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Don't know what you responded with, but just in case you thought it was an imaginary thing or I wasn't serious.



He said, "Okay, whatever."

Anyway, you should probably spoiler that, since it's stretching the page.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

johnsuwey said:


> Grats, here is one internet cookie for not only being a DB, but to post this to make sure we all know it!



Thanks for the cookie.

Just so I'm not jumping to conclusions, dumb this down for me. What's a  DB and what about exercising my forum-given privilege to ignore people  makes me one?


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## johnsuwey (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> Thanks for the cookie.
> 
> Just so I'm not jumping to conclusions, dumb this down for me. What's a DB and what about exercising my forum-given privilege to ignore people makes me one?



You will figure it out if you think about it awhile.
Your previous post made you one.
And you can ignore whoever you want, but don't gloat about it.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> She dodged that tech and obliterates his body. Or she tanks his Chidori and then obliterates his body. Or she summons Katsuyu and has a giant wave of acid melt him. Or she strikes the ground and used the shockwave to disorient Sasuke and then OBLITERATES HIS body with literally her finger. Sasuke without Sussano and AMA Sasuke is not beating a Sannin.





Mayweather said:


> Yeah, just ignore that he's much faster, has the Sharingan to predict and counter her moves and can put her in a genjutsu and kill her long before she can summon anything.
> 
> Tsunade wankers lol.



Sasuke holds a slight speed advantage, but we have already seen slower people keeping up with faster people just based on sheer taijustu skill( Hidan vs Kakashi and Asuma) The problem is Tsuande is faster then Hidan and has better taijustu skill, where as Sasuke and Kakashi are roughly equal I'm both taijustu and speed. So the gap between Tsunade and Sasuke is even smaller then Hidan and Kakashi, meaning that Tsunade is going to comfortably fight in CQC with him.

The difference however, is Tsunade can tank more damage, and parrying becomes a death situation. He'd have to dodge every attack made(no parry ) and land many many hits to even injure her slightly. She also has the intelligence and stamina advantage.

Yeah, when Sasuke engages in taijustu he gets steam rolled.

Lol at Uchiha wankers.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Oct 31, 2013)

Does Sasuke have any knowledge on Tsunade in the manga? Because if he somehow decides to tank Tsunade coming at him with Ribcage Susano'o, she _*royally*_ fucks him over.



johnsuwey said:


> You will figure it out if you think about it awhile.
> Your previous post made you one.
> And you can ignore whoever you want, but don't gloat about it.





I'm pretty sure you saw this coming.


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## hokage5522 (Oct 31, 2013)

Gottta love the tsunade fans. They just forget about the fact that sasuke is about two tiers above her in base speed....base speed mind you and he has sharingan , just how the hell is tsunade ever gonna hit him.. how? To get up close to sasuke is  to risk amaterasu or genjutsu, and he has susanno which will hold her off long enough for other said jutsu to land.  When you have a pure tank style like tsunade, it is not a good match-up for her period.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2013)

hokage5522 said:


> Gottta love the tsunade fans. They just forget about the fact that sasuke is about two tiers above her in base speed....base speed mind you and he has sharingan , just how the hell is tsunade ever gonna hit him.. how? To get up close to sasuke is  to risk amaterasu or genjutsu, and he has susanno which will hold her off long enough for other said jutsu to land.  When you have a pure tank style like tsunade, it is not a good match-up for her period.



I explained this. Tsunade probabaly has a 4.5 I'm speed now(Shizune has a 4 lol) and Sasuke probably has a 5. Hidan was keeping up with Kakashi( 4.5 speed+MS) with a 3.5 in speed and less taijustu skill then Tsunade.  Tsunade isn't going to have trouble tangoeing with Sasuke.


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## MysteriousD (Oct 31, 2013)

Ummm NO? 

Tsunade breaks Susanno with her fists and kills Sasuke.

If she gets hit with Ama she can insta regenerate long enough to kill Sasuke.

Whether or not she keeps a scroll like Jiraya (seals Ama) on hand makes the difference.

But we have seen shinobi summon altars with candles (Minato) so it wouldnt suprise me if Tsunade could summon the assistance (scroll) she needs to rid herself of Ama.

Really now people were underestimating the world's greatest medical nin if we think Ama is just gonna put a stop to her, she hasnt shown it but she MUST have a way to deal with fire and maybe Amaterasu


It may be a stretch but whats to stop her from literally walking while burning with Amaterasu to find her method to deal with it?

Her insta healing and superb chakra level will carry her, and Sasuke will die fast since Susanno gets broken quick and easy.

I dont think MS Saus can handle any of the Sannin (at full power)


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## LostSelf (Oct 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Tsunade isn't going to have trouble tangoeing with Sasuke.



She might not lose in a taijutsu only fight with Sasuke. But yes she will have a lot of troubles tangoeing with him. This is the guy that was being blitzed by KN0 Naruto with a two tomoe. But when he got Sharingan precog he started to dominate him with no trouble at all. Now let's add that Sasuke is faster than her, and i'm sure he can dodge her punches with no trouble.


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## Veracity (Oct 31, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> She might not lose in a taijutsu only fight with Sasuke. But yes she will have a lot of troubles tangoeing with him. This is the guy that was being blitzed by KN0 Naruto with a two tomoe. But when he got Sharingan precog he started to dominate him with no trouble at all. Now let's add that Sasuke is faster than her, and i'm sure he can dodge her punches with no trouble.



That's not really the case. We have seen what Sasuke can do with his Sharingan. He's about Danzos speed with less taijustu skill then Tsunade.


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## LostSelf (Oct 31, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> That's not really the case. We have seen what Sasuke can do with his Sharingan. He's about Danzos speed with less taijustu skill then Tsunade.



Danzo had sharingan precog too, though. It might've allowed him to keep up (But Sasuke always outmaneuvered him when they fought).

But that ability really helps him by a lot.

I don't think they had the same speed, but i don't see a big difference. He has less taijutsu skills than her, but his sharingan precog will help him react, dodge and counter her attacks effectively, just like it helped him against Haku, KN0 Naruto and V1 Ei.

However i'm not saying he wins more times than not in a CqC fight. Unless he uses his Katana flowed with Raiton properly, he has no chance.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 31, 2013)

Kenpachi TZ said:


> I'm pretty sure you saw this coming.



I think we all have him on our ignore lists.

On topic: Tsunade might be able to regenerate from Amaterasu, but she would need to stop it altogether, something that depends entirely on where she gets hit. If it is already on her body, it'll only be a matter of time before her seal runs out, and even if she actually kills Sasuke, she dies, too.

Although I don't see her landing a solid hit on Sasuke due to his high levels of Sharingan precognition and a fair amount of speed to go along with it. Plus, he could slow her down by cutting off her limbs with Raiton.

I don't see Sasuke losing to her in the slightest.


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## Rocky (Oct 31, 2013)

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Sasuke's Kenjutsu is inferior to Tsunade's Taijutsu. Swordplay isn't included in the Taijutsu stat for the Databook, and being armed in general is already an advantage the Sauce has over her. The Sharingan (which is similarly not included in the Databook) gives him yet another advantage, and he can flow lighting through his weapons making them hot enough to cut through steel. 

She may be more skilled than him fist to fist, but he's got plenty of tricks in close quarters to even the playing field.


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## Baroxio (Oct 31, 2013)

Why are people talking about taijutsu skill when Sasuke can just use Chidori Eiso and bisect Tsunade from afar? 

Is she going to "parry" Chidori Eiso? 

No. Let's be serious for a second. Sasuke can decimate her outside of her effective range and possess superior speed and reflexes to her. If Sasuke were restricted to taijutsu then Tsunade could likely win, but when he can bifruicate her from over 15 feet away there really isn't much she can do to him.

This isn't a question about taijutsu skill. Not at this range.


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## LostSelf (Oct 31, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Sasuke's Kenjutsu is inferior to Tsunade's Taijutsu. Swordplay isn't included in the Taijutsu stat for the Databook, and being armed in general is already an advantage the Sauce has over her. The Sharingan (which is similarly not included in the Databook) gives him yet another advantage, and he can flow lighting through his weapons making them hot enough to cut through steel.
> 
> She may be more skilled than him fist to fist, but he's got plenty of tricks in close quarters to even the playing field.



Don't know if this was for me D:

But yeah, when i said taijutsu, i didn't mean Kenjutsu. If Sasuke knows about her regen or about her fight with Kabuto (How she stood up after being slashed and stabbed), he will be more dangerous. Because if he managed to land a hit on Ei, who is faster, he can cut her in half with no effort (talking about durability here) with his Katana.


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2013)

It depends what Gokage Tsunade replaces and who her two guards are. If she replaces Ei, and her two gaurds remain Shi and Darui; well Tsunade would beat Sasuke the moment Shi used his Genjutsu, as unlike Ei's blow Suigetsu wouldn't be able to stop Tsunade's and it would just go through pulverizing Sasuke to death. Now if her guards are different than Ei's, than we'd have to know which Konoha Shinobi she took and how they would effect the battle, however I tend to still think Sasuke would loose at the point where he hits Tsunade in the chest with Chidori. As he'd expect her to go down, but Byakugo would simple heal her giving her a chance to grab hold of Sasuke and unlike Ei her blow would go right through any Susano'o defense finishing Sasuke.

If we put Tsunade in Mei's situation or Onoki's she'd kill the exhausted Sasuke.

Putting Tsunade in Danzo's situation is really the only match I could see her losing, however even than it depends how she plays her cards. After Sasuke grabs and crushes her with Susano'o she'll have an opening to attack, since he'll believe she's dead, and she may be able to use that opening to blow through Susano'o and take the initiative to beat Sasuke's Susano'o into the ground. However if Sasuke survives that than his Susano'o + Amaterasu combo is going to be excessively dangers for Tsunade. She does have a counter to Amaterasu in the sense that she can meld with Katsuya and hide outside of Sasuke LOS that way, but I don't know how likely it is for Tsunade to pull of such a maneuver. Though in Tsunade's favor she might be aware that Sasuke has Amaterasu at this point, for ether intel discussed with the other Kages or sensors making them aware of Sasuke using the black flames, so potentially having that intel would make this more likely.

And really if Sasuke survives the initial Byakugo ambush than it really just come down to how effectively Tsunade can use Katsuya, if she's able to win or not.


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## Baroxio (Nov 1, 2013)

The only reason Saskue resorted to Chidori is because his raiton sword bounced off Raikage's pecs like nothing. Far as I know, Tsunade's boobs do not have the same abilities.

In Mei's situation there's no way Tsunade can reasonably stop him from leaving, which he will. There's also no reason for Sasuke to spam his Susano to the point of exhaustion since Tsunade has no ranged techniques of any consequence and he would just avoid CQC to go after Danzo.

If we are speaking situation wise, Onoki's situation is the only one she could win, but at that point, does it even count as a victory?


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## RedChidori (Nov 1, 2013)

Sasuke wins with his Chidori variants and Amaterasu. If Tsunade tries to punch thru his Susanoo rib cage he can just engulf it in Enton: Kagutsuchi. Then it's game over for the Sannin.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Nov 1, 2013)

Tsunade will struggle to land hits on Sasuke because of his sharingan precognition, not really because of his speed - there won't be any blitzing going on here. I should add, with every misplaced strike Tsunade may subsequently hit the ground en lieu of Sasuke, forceably casting him into the air as a result. [1] [2] [3] [4] Heck, intentionally tearing the earth apart to disrupt her foes' footing is something she has ICly done before. In the air Sasuke's precognition will hardly help him, and relying on Susano'o will be useless too. Even if he sets her ablaze with amaterasu she will still engage him up close and land a finishing blow. In an enclosed space such as this, smashy smashy tactics might work.

It is tempting to believe that Sasuke would escape to a range after witnissing Tsunade's strength (where he naturally has the advantage) though he did not do this against Ei, whose fighting style is not two worlds apart from Tsunade's. His arrogance could be his downfall. 

In my opinion kenjutsu is considered as a part of taijutsu in the DB, I don't see why it wouldn't be. However, the best Sasuke can do is land some deep slashes and cuts, though even if he did chop off her arm or somehow bisect her (an unlikely scenario to begin with) she has Katsuyu by her side to handily put her back together. The Godaime has had her spine severed and her guts spilled and mutilated without suffering any traumatic consequences . . I am skeptical as to what extent paralysis would affect her. 

If Sasuke sets her ablaze with amaterasu from the outset, and then spends the next 30 minutes running away from her, he might win. As I'm sure most would agree, that tactic is not very IC for Sasuke, and he has few other options. I think Tsunade should win this (though as Turrin pointed out, if this is Tsunade vs Sasuke under the same stipulations as Danzou vs Sasuke, then Sasuke would win.)​​


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## LostSelf (Nov 1, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> If Sasuke sets her ablaze with amaterasu from the outset, and then spends the next 30 minutes running away from her, he might win. As I'm sure most would agree, that tactic is not very IC for Sasuke, and he has few other options. I think Tsunade should win this (though as Turrin pointed out, if this is Tsunade vs Sasuke under the same stipulations as Danzou vs Sasuke, then Sasuke would win.)​​



So... Tsunade, burning, feeling pain and wasting chakra reserves, will be able to pursue Sasuke, while covered completely in fire? 

Sasuke doesn't need to run as she will not be even moving correctly. And if she tries to attack him, he just hits her with any ranged Chidori, and setting her ablaze with Amaterasu is the most probably thing he will do after he sees her smashing the place..


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## Garcher (Nov 1, 2013)

funny how all the people think Sasgay wins, but when it came to Tsunade vs Itachi sometime ago they were all like tsunade stompls blablabla

Sasuke wins, he's Itachi's manipulated tool


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## RedChidori (Nov 1, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> funny how all the people think Sasgay wins, but when it came to Tsunade vs Itachi sometime ago they were all like tsunade stompls blablabla
> 
> Sasuke wins, he's Itachi's manipulated tool



SASUKE FTW MOTHAFUCKA!!!


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> The only reason Saskue resorted to Chidori is because his raiton sword bounced off Raikage's pecs like nothing. Far as I know, Tsunade's boobs do not have the same abilities.
> 
> In Mei's situation there's no way Tsunade can reasonably stop him from leaving, which he will. There's also no reason for Sasuke to spam his Susano to the point of exhaustion since Tsunade has no ranged techniques of any consequence and he would just avoid CQC to go after Danzo.
> 
> If we are speaking situation wise, Onoki's situation is the only one she could win, but at that point, does it even count as a victory?


Sure, but Chidori Ksunagi isn't doing anything to Tsunade, and i'm pretty sure Tsunade can stop a Sasuke whose extremely exhausted, even Chojiro landed a blow on him in that condition.


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## LostSelf (Nov 1, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Sure, but Chidori Ksunagi isn't doing anything to Tsunade, and i'm pretty sure Tsunade can stop a Sasuke whose extremely exhausted, even Chojiro landed a blow on him in that condition.



Not saying if Tsunade could or not, but Chojiro managed to land a blow because Mei forced Sasuke on the defensive. And Sasuke was still protecting himself from the wall covered in lava (he also didn't see Chojiro coming, because he jumped to attack when Mei's lava was covering his vision).

1


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## Ersa (Nov 1, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Tsunade will struggle to land hits on Sasuke because of his sharingan precognition, not really because of his speed - there won't be any blitzing going on here. I should add, with every misplaced strike Tsunade may subsequently hit the ground en lieu of Sasuke, forceably casting him into the air as a result. [1] [2] [3] [4] Heck, intentionally tearing the earth apart to disrupt her foes' footing is something she has ICly done before. In the air Sasuke's precognition will hardly help him, and relying on Susano'o will be useless too. Even if he sets her ablaze with amaterasu she will still engage him up close and land a finishing blow. In an enclosed space such as this, smashy smashy tactics might work.
> 
> It is tempting to believe that Sasuke would escape to a range after witnissing Tsunade's strength (where he naturally has the advantage) though he did not do this against Ei, whose fighting style is not two worlds apart from Tsunade's. His arrogance could be his downfall.
> 
> ...


Cerberus regeneration is more or less on par with Tsuande's (it tanked a FRS which I may add is something Tsunade would not regenerate from) and died very quickly from Amaterasu. To suggest Tsunade can tank Amaterasu for 30 minutes is ludicrous if Sasuke manages a direct hit with Amaterasu. Not to mention, it probably hurts a lot.

And you act like Sasuke is extremely stupid, he's arrogant but he's still one of the most tactical fighters in the series. Other than that the rest of your points I agree with although you downplay the speed advantage a lot.


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> Not saying if Tsunade could or not, but Chojiro managed to land a blow because Mei forced Sasuke on the defensive. And Sasuke was still protecting himself from the wall covered in lava (he also didn't see Chojiro coming, because he jumped to attack when Mei's lava was covering his vision).
> 
> [4]


Mei's attack was already over, he could have dodge just fine.


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## LostSelf (Nov 1, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Mei's attack was already over, he could have dodge just fine.



Yes, it was. But Chojiro began to move when Sasuke's vision was clouded, here [1], if you look in the next page, he couldn't see Chojiro until he was close (look at the "!" in Sasuke).

Aside from that. he was against the wall covered in lava, he needed Susano'o to avoid being burned from behind.


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## Turrin (Nov 1, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> Yes, it was. But Chojiro began to move when Sasuke's vision was clouded, here [1], if you look in the next page, he couldn't see Chojiro until he was close (look at the "!" in Sasuke).
> 
> Aside from that. he was against the wall covered in lava, he needed Susano'o to avoid being burned from behind.



So chojiro got a slight head start, even still it's Chojiro. 

He can move with Susano'o activated. 

I don't see why it's hard to accept that a weakened Sasuke confined in a room would have difficult evading Tsunade, whose excellent in CQC.


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## santorai (Nov 1, 2013)

sasuke wins


----------



## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Sure, but Chidori Ksunagi isn't doing anything to Tsunade, and i'm pretty sure Tsunade can stop a Sasuke whose extremely exhausted, even Chojiro landed a blow on him in that condition.




Chidori Eisō would certainly cause damage. It's a beam of extended lighting basically; it would slice her right in two, and you can't parry something like that.

What is she supposed to do? She can't dodge, as Sasuke's Sharingan can predict when and where her body will move to before it actually moves. He'll simply adjust accordingly and connect with his superior speed, and since the length of Eisō is far longer her striking range, Sauce isn't open to counter-attack.


----------



## Veracity (Nov 2, 2013)

I don't see why Tsunade cannot simply punch the ground or even use Katsuyu as a meat shield? But then again most posters on these forums think Tsunade is a dumbass. That no tactic can ever be made up for her fighting style.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> I don't see why Tsunade cannot simply punch the ground or even use Katsuyu as a meat shield? But then again most posters on these forums think Tsunade is a dumbass. That no tactic can ever be made up for her fighting style.




I don't see what "punching the ground" accomplishes against Sasuke fighting from range, and Katsuyu isn't shielding anything from Chidori Eisō.


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## Ersa (Nov 2, 2013)

Also I don't think Tsunade's punches will unbalance Sasuke much at all, Sakura perhaps (slim chance) but I'm reluctant to scale her feat to Tsunade given that it's implied she's close or already has surpassed her master. Pre-cognition and a good Shunshin is all he needs to escape her AOE and he's quite a bit faster in movement speed too.


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## Coppur (Nov 2, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> I don't see why Tsunade cannot simply punch the ground or even use Katsuyu as a meat shield? But then again most posters on these forums think Tsunade is a dumbass. That no tactic can ever be made up for her fighting style.



The meat shield portion is a tactic is I find to be validated, but punching the ground is pretty ridiculous, someone on the level of Sasuke is just going to go "Whoops I tripped and fell, I guess that's the end for me."


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## Veracity (Nov 2, 2013)

Why is punching the ground ridiculous? She literally can replicate Sakuras by slamming the ground if she sees Sasuke charging with a Chidori Katana. She can severely limit his CQC action(even though Tsunade excels in that category) and limit him to Range. By simply dodging his Katons(or tanking) and using Katsuyu as a shield and acid gun; can exhaust Sasuke pretty easily. His chakra isn't comparable to hers.


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## Coppur (Nov 2, 2013)

Sharingan Pre-cog, Sauce would most likely see it coming and act accordingly.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

If we assume that Tsunade is at the level she was when she fought 5 Madaras, she probably kills Sasuke.

She and Sasuke would go for melee (duh) and Sasuke would block with incomplete ribcage Susano.  And die.  

Sasuke could win by setting her on fire with Ameterasu, but Summit Sasuke was the most retarded of all the Sasuke and probably won't do that right away.  He waited forever against Ei, and took and traded too many shots, and Tsunade is just as if not more capable of the tank and counter than Ei is.  If he does that here, he dies.  

Current Sasuke probably just blows up the summit with an Amaterasu arrow.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Chidori Eisō would certainly cause damage. It's a beam of extended lighting basically; it would slice her right in two, and you can't parry something like that.
> 
> What is she supposed to do? She can't dodge, as Sasuke's Sharingan can predict when and where her body will move to before it actually moves. He'll simply adjust accordingly and connect with his superior speed, and since the length of Eisō is far longer her striking range, Sauce isn't open to counter-attack.



Without knowledge, I generally see him stabbing her in the chest with it, and calling it a day when she plays dead.  Then she counters him when he turns his back, like she did against Madara, and Kabuto.  It got Kabuto and almost got Madara, so I think it would work.


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## Veracity (Nov 2, 2013)

Coppur said:


> Sharingan Pre-cog, Sauce would most likely see it coming and act accordingly.



Most likely. It's not hurt him. Merely keep him away and exhaust his chakra.


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## Ersa (Nov 2, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Most likely. It's not hurt him. Merely keep him away and exhaust his chakra.


Backing off and Shunshining away will not sap much chakra at all, Tsunade will be more tired charging up massive punches than Sasuke will be dodging them.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

Tsunade has way more stamina than Sasuke does at this point.

Even old rusty Tsunade could smash down castles and run change locations while smashing.  Kabuto had to eat a food pill to keep on fighting, and all he did was run away up until then.


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## Ersa (Nov 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> Tsunade has way more stamina than Sasuke does at this point.
> 
> Even old rusty Tsunade could smash down castles and run change locations while smashing.  Kabuto had to eat a food pill to keep on fighting, and all he did was run away up until then.


And I agree but she'll still burn out faster launching massive punches that break the ground up than Sasuke who'll be running away most likely. In a battle of pure attrition Tsunade beats out MS Sasuke, although EMS Sasuke likely has a tonne more chakra at this point.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Nov 2, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> So... Tsunade, burning, feeling pain and wasting chakra reserves, will be able to pursue Sasuke, while covered completely in fire?
> 
> Sasuke doesn't need to run as she will not be even moving correctly. And if she tries to attack him, he just hits her with any ranged Chidori, and setting her ablaze with Amaterasu is the most probably thing he will do after he sees her smashing the place..





Kyokan said:


> Cerberus regeneration is more or less on par with Tsuande's (it tanked a FRS which I may add is something Tsunade would not regenerate from) and died very quickly from Amaterasu. To suggest Tsunade can tank Amaterasu for 30 minutes is ludicrous if Sasuke manages a direct hit with Amaterasu. Not to mention, it probably hurts a lot.
> 
> And you act like Sasuke is extremely stupid, he's arrogant but he's still one of the most tactical fighters in the series. Other than that the rest of your points I agree with although you downplay the speed advantage a lot.



Even if the Cerberus does have Tsunade-level regeneration (I'm unsure if it does) it does not have Tsunade level _resilience_. With no legs or organs in lower abdomen, Tsunade summoned Katsuyu and healed her allies for about an hour. Tsunade, with two giant swords bisecting her abdomen, ran around punching Susano'o clones and casually ripped the swords out of her body. Tsunade, with a plethora of deep cuts and internal injuries from being transferred at lightning speed, landed a kick on Madara Uchiha in unison with Ei (a notably fast individual). Tsunade batted away, using her arms, five large katon balls without so much as flinching. Tsunade had her spine severed and didn't show any kind of physical detriment. 

So no, amaterasu is not going to immobilise her, or stop her from throwing strikes. Being set ablaze for prolonged periods of time is bound to slow her down a bit, and she will have moments of weakness, but for the most part she will still able to perform physically so long as she has chakra remaining in her seal. 

And Kyokan, Sasuke is not stupid, but my point was that it would have made more sense for him to try and attack the Raikage from a range given his brute strength and CQC prowess. However Sasuke believed stubbornly that his Susano'o, chidori and amaterasu techniques could allow him to tango with the Raikage at close range. There is no reason why this would not be the case if it was Tsunade he was fighting instead.​​


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## Ersa (Nov 2, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Even if the Cerberus does have Tsunade-level regeneration (I'm unsure if it does) it does not have Tsunade level _resilience_. With no legs or organs in lower abdomen, Tsunade summoned Katsuyu and healed her allies for about an hour. Tsunade, with two giant swords bisecting her abdomen, ran around punching Susano'o clones and casually ripped the swords out of her body. Tsunade, with a plethora of deep cuts and internal injuries from being transferred at lightning speed, landed a kick on Madara Uchiha in unison with Ei (a notably fast individual). Tsunade batted away, using her arms, five large katon balls without so much as flinching. Tsunade had her spine severed and didn't show any kind of physical detriment.
> 
> So no, amaterasu is not going to immobilise her, or stop her from throwing strikes. Being set ablaze for prolonged periods of time is bound to slow her down a bit, and she will have moments of weakness, but for the most part she will still able to perform physically so long as she has chakra remaining in her seal.
> 
> And Kyokan, Sasuke is not stupid, but my point was that it would have made more sense for him to try and attack the Raikage from a range given his brute strength and CQC prowess. However Sasuke believed stubbornly that his Susano'o, chidori and amaterasu techniques could allow him to tango with the Raikage at close range. There is no reason why this would not be the case if it was Tsunade he was fighting instead.​​


Can you honestly see Tsunade taking a FRS to her back? She implied it was damage even she couldn't heal back in the Immortals Arc and that was a base FRS not a Kyuubi powered version. FRS is greater than anything Tsunade has tanked (being split in half is bad but Byakugo could actually heal that but not damage at the cellular level).

Tanking Amaterasu isn't about resilience, I think Tsunade can do that (since Ei could). The initial blast of flames does a lot of damage, it destroyed a summon that had similar regeneration to Tsunade. I honestly can't see her tanking it for long, it'll outdamage her regeneration and drain a lot of chakra. It's actually one of the worst possible attacks for Tsunade to tank due to it's feats against a regenerating opponent and she'll have to because she doesn't have V2 Ei speed to dodge it with. 

Honestly Sasuke could've tangoed in CQC with a higher form of Susanoo (if he did it). I'll agree Sasuke is arrogant but if he catches a glimpse of her brute strength (via seeing it himself/Sharingan noticing chakra build-up), he'll retreat and use Amaterasu.


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## Kenpachi TZ (Nov 2, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> I'll agree Sasuke is arrogant but if he catches a glimpse of her brute strength (via seeing it himself/Sharingan noticing chakra build-up), he'll retreat and use Amaterasu.



No, he'll jump in. Brute strength never intimidated him into backing off and using MS, until it was almost too late.

Whether or not he winds up paying for it and Tsunade breaks him, I'll leave it to you guys to decide.


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## hokage5522 (Nov 2, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> I explained this. Tsunade probabaly has a 4.5 I'm speed now(Shizune has a 4 lol) and Sasuke probably has a 5. Hidan was keeping up with Kakashi( 4.5 speed+MS) with a 3.5 in speed and less taijustu skill then Tsunade.  Tsunade isn't going to have trouble tangoeing with Sasuke.



You know i never understood those of you out there that think that tsunade has gotton faster. Tsunade is in her 50s, she isnt going to get any faster at this point, she has long ago hit her ceiling in speed.. hell for all we know her databook stats in speed has went down since her younger days. (which seems likely) Unless you train in sage jutsu you arent gettin a upgrade in speed by this point. Let me put it like this, would it make sense for you to talk about her getting a upgrade in speed at her age now and not when she was in her 20s and 30s especially when she would have needed that upgrade when she was fighting in the third ninja war.... To get that now at her age makes absolutely no sense.You are forced to ask "why didnt she have greater speed back then?


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## The World (Nov 2, 2013)

This is a Shounen

She gets stronger every arc just like every other character


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## The World (Nov 2, 2013)

at people thinking chidori will slow down Tsunade


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## kaminogan (Nov 2, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Even if the Cerberus does have Tsunade-level regeneration (I'm unsure if it does) it does not have Tsunade level _resilience_. With no legs or organs in lower abdomen, Tsunade summoned Katsuyu and healed her allies for about an hour. Tsunade, with two giant swords bisecting her abdomen, ran around punching Susano'o clones and casually ripped the swords out of her body. Tsunade, with a plethora of deep cuts and internal injuries from being transferred at lightning speed, landed a kick on Madara Uchiha in unison with Ei (a notably fast individual). Tsunade batted away, using her arms, five large katon balls without so much as flinching. Tsunade had her spine severed and didn't show any kind of physical detriment.
> 
> So no, amaterasu is not going to immobilise her, or stop her from throwing strikes. Being set ablaze for prolonged periods of time is bound to slow her down a bit, and she will have moments of weakness, but for the most part she will still able to perform physically so long as she has chakra remaining in her seal.
> 
> And Kyokan, Sasuke is not stupid, but my point was that it would have made more sense for him to try and attack the Raikage from a range given his brute strength and CQC prowess. However Sasuke believed stubbornly that his Susano'o, chidori and amaterasu techniques could allow him to tango with the Raikage at close range. There is no reason why this would not be the case if it was Tsunade he was fighting instead.​​




do you mean HP ?

it makes sense since she is a senju,

and they have ridiculous amounts of HP,


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> So no, amaterasu is not going to immobilise her, or stop her from throwing strikes. Being set ablaze for prolonged periods of time is bound to slow her down a bit, and she will have moments of weakness, but for the most part she will still able to perform physically so long as she has chakra remaining in her seal.​​




She runs into the problem of not being able to see once the flames spread to her eyes. She also faces the problem on not being able to breathe when the flames consume her oxygen.


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## Kai (Nov 2, 2013)

This is the most unstable version of Sasuke - his mindset at the Kage Summit doesn't reflect his tactics in battle whatsoever.

Sasuke will charge at Tsunade and enter CQC with Raiton-infused Kusanagi or Chidori in hand, even despite Juugo's warnings. Sasuke will not use Amaterasu nor Enton until the close quarters bout is over, except it won't get past that stage in the fight. Tsunade heals with Sozo Saisei/Byakugo, grabs Sasuke just like A, Sasuke defends with Susano'o and Tsunade blows open the ribcage and one-shots Sasuke.

Chidori users are absolutely vulnerable after thrusting the jutsu into the opponent; we've witnessed this phenomenon countless times in the manga.

Sasuke's style of choice at this point in time will be the worst possible resort against Tsunade, and he'll pay dearly for it.  You can't have Sasuke be as reckless as he was against the Raikage and expect him to get away with it against someone far more dangerous in close quarters power.


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## FlamingRain (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> She also faces the problem on not being able to breathe when the flames consume her oxygen.



Tsunade didn't seem to have too much of a problem being unable to breathe when Kabuto screwed up her respiratory system. He interrupted her before she could finish healing it when he figured out _Ranshinshō_ more quickly than anticipated, so she went from mid-Kabuto fight all the way up to _Sōzō Saisei_'s usage with the problem of not being able to breathe.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2013)

I think people tend to underrate Tsunade's CQC based on her scuffle with Kabuto, but she was very out of shape at the time. Sure she only has a 3.5 in speed, but Hidan w/ the same speed and Taijutsu rating kept up with Kakashi fairly well. I'm sure Sasuke can dodge a-lot of Tsunade's hits, but as illustrate from Hidan vs Kakashi, eventually there will be a hit that needs to be blocked and Ei battle Sasuke does not have anything that can block Tsunade's hit, and she only needs one to end this. Likewise Sasuke will probably land more hits before Tsunade, but she can tank these with regeneration, so they aren't damming for her. Tsunade went up against 5 Susano'o where they were stabbing swords through her and land more hits than her, but with Byakugo she muscled her way though and eventually landed her blow. It will be the same against Sasuke.

Amaterasu is dangerous, but Ei fight Sasuke does not opt to use Amaterasu as freely as we've seen other iterations of Sasuke and instead goes for CQC first, which is where he'd loose the match.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 2, 2013)

Taka Sasuke>Hebi Sasuke>Tsunade>base Sasuke.

Enton is seriously gonna wreck the 5th's shit. Regeneration isn't going to stop the agonizing pain of burning continuously for days or push aside the black flames obscuring her vision when they spread over her entire body. It isn't going to stop her from suffocating amid the heat and fumes and lack of oxygen, either. Once Tsunade is hit, she will need Byakugou just to stay alive, and it will be a painful existence unlike anything we can imagine; it might actually be better if she simply doesn't fight it and allows herself to die as quickly as possible, because I can't imagine that being burned and rebuilt and burned over and over for days would be bearable for anyone.

Susano'o protects Sasuke; Tsunade can't breach it by herself. While she's stumbling and rolling around on fire, Sauce can just use her for target practice with his chakra arrows to compensate for that shitty job he did with the boar on Itachi's mission when they were younger.


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## Ghost (Nov 2, 2013)

The World said:


> at people thinking chidori will slow down Tsunade



After stabbing Yamato's shoulder with Chidori, Yamato's whole body started going numb.

Chidori Eiso to the gut would stop Tsunade. Especially if Sasuke blossoms it.


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## The World (Nov 2, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Taka Sasuke>Hebi Sasuke>Tsunade>base Sasuke.





saikyou said:


> After stabbing Yamato's shoulder with Chidori, Yamato's whole body started going numb.
> 
> Chidori Eiso to the gut would stop Tsunade. Especially if Sasuke blossoms it.



Keep the delusion alive

Then blow it's brains out and bury it 6 feet under


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Tsunade didn't seem to have too much of a problem being unable to breathe when Kabuto screwed up her respiratory system. He interrupted her before she could finish healing it when he figured out _Ranshinshō_ more quickly than anticipated, so she went from mid-Kabuto fight all the way up to _Sōzō Saisei_'s usage with the problem of not being able to breathe.




The scalpel didn't penetrate deep enough because of Tsunade's huge boobs; the wound wasn't that bad. She obviously healed off any damage before Kabuto figured out Ranshinshō. I mean, you can't really do the whole talking thing without air. 

Also, she won't be able to see. The fire will obstruct her vision when it spreads to her eyes.



Kai said:


> This is the most unstable version of Sasuke - his mindset at the Kage Summit doesn't reflect his tactics in battle whatsoever.
> 
> Sasuke will charge at Tsunade and enter CQC with Raiton-infused Kusanagi or Chidori in hand, even despite Juugo's warnings. Sasuke will not use Amaterasu nor Enton until the close quarters bout is over, except it won't get past that stage in the fight. Tsunade heals with Sozo Saisei/Byakugo, grabs Sasuke just like A, Sasuke defends with Susano'o and Tsunade blows open the ribcage and one-shots Sasuke.




His Raiton sword won't bounce off Tsunade, it would cut her to ribbons. If she's in two peices, she isn't counter striking him right away. Also, she wouldn't blow through Susano'o and still manage to hit Sasuke. Even if she shattered it upon impact, he would go flying just as Madara did when his Susano'o was broken, leaving no time for immediate follow up.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 2, 2013)

The World said:


> Keep the delusion alive
> 
> Then blow it's brains out and bury it 6 feet under



Saikyou and I provided evidence for our positions.

You did not provide any for yours.


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## FlamingRain (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> The scalpel didn't penetrate deep enough because of Tsunade's huge boobs; the wound wasn't that bad. She obviously healed off any damage before Kabuto figured out Ranshinshō. I mean, you can't really do the whole talking thing without air.



Kabuto, being unaware of Tsunade's inhumane resilience that goes beyond mere pain tolerance but aware of the fact that a normal ninja would have been sidelined immediately, simply put forth a theory that he didn't hit reach her respiratory system because of her boobs, but given Tsunade's reaction to the hit both verbally and mentally (where she has no incentive to mislead), he seems to have been incorrect in that theory.

Special ninjas have already shown the ability to temporarily override the need for body structures that would otherwise be mandatory for certain functions, and I think Senju/Uzumaki qualifies as one of those special ones. Considering that Tsunade complained and explained _Ranshinshō_ before she attempted to heal herself, her speech can't be attributed to her having healed off all of the damage. Hidan talked _*as a head*_, and even if Tsunade isn't that kind of immortal her head wasn't outright severed from her body.



> Also, she won't be able to see. The fire will obstruct her vision when it spreads to her eyes.



I didn't contest this.



Rocky said:


> His Raiton sword won't bounce off Tsunade, it would cut her to ribbons. If she's in two peices, she isn't counter striking him right away. Also, she wouldn't blow through Susano'o and still manage to hit Sasuke. Even if she shattered it upon impact, he would go flying just as Madara did when his Susano'o was broken, leaving no time for immediate follow up.



If Sasuke pulls that maneuver Tsunade will outright crush his neck where Danzō merely choked him. Sharingan precognition isn't helping anything if he's in the air.

Ay hit Sasuke through _Susano'o_ with the same move that didn't do jack to Madara's, while Tsunade put a hole in it _(1)_. Her arms goes through Sasuke's _Susano'o_ just like someone punching a hole in the wall and Sasuke dies.


----------



## LostSelf (Nov 2, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> So no, amaterasu is not going to immobilise her, or stop her from throwing strikes. Being set ablaze for prolonged periods of time is bound to slow her down a bit, and she will have moments of weakness, but for the most part she will still able to perform physically so long as she has chakra remaining in her seal. ​​



I was quoted here so i assume this part was to answer me. I'm not saying Tsunade will be inmobilised. But she won't be as healthy either. Amaterasu will hinder her more and more as time passes. And if Sasuke has the speed and precognition to effectively keep distance against a healthy Tsunade, his chances of dodging and keeping away from her while being burned alive, obscuring her vision and making her waste huge chakra reservers are much better.

There's a diference of a healthy Tsunade with no horrible pain to a Tsunade being burned down to death. Therefore i don't see her getting Sasuke with Amaterasu all over her body. And the jutsu covered a big part of Hachibi very fast, imagine Tsunade.

Also, Tsunade had a good load of chakra left after she removed the two big Susano'o blades and she collapsed. It's clear that she's not inmune to pain, having Byakugo or not, it will hinder her. Especially when Amaterasu will create more damage than those stabs, and nonstop.



Turrin said:


> So chojiro got a slight head start, even still it's Chojiro.
> 
> He can move with Susano'o activated.
> 
> I don't see why it's hard to accept that a weakened Sasuke confined in a room would have difficult evading Tsunade, whose excellent in CQC.



Why didn't you counter my arguments, Turrin? Sasuke didn't see Chojiro until he was close, and his back was pushed against a wall of lava. Sasuke wasn't exactly confined in a room, and the mess Tsunade can create will only help Sasuke more to get away.


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## The World (Nov 2, 2013)

Nikushimi said:


> Saikyou and I provided evidence for our positions.
> 
> You did not provide any for yours.



Your fanfic is evidence?

That Hebi Sauce is above Tsunade? 



He never even used arrows from Susano-o during the actual summit only after Tobi had to rescue him and Karin cured him did he use it on Danzou

typical saiyan shounen powerup 

Not like it matters anyway 

Tsunade broke through EMS Mads Susano-o and tanked his Swords multiple times sooooooooo

Sasuke's pathetic inferior Sus would get obliterated 

He never even fully stabilized it until after the summit


----------



## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

FlamingRain said:


> Kabuto, being unaware of Tsunade's inhumane resilience that goes beyond mere pain tolerance but aware of the fact that a normal ninja would have been sidelined immediately, simply put forth a theory that he didn't hit reach her respiratory system because of her boobs, but given Tsunade's reaction to the hit both verbally and mentally (where she has no incentive to mislead), he seems to have been incorrect in that theory.




Kabuto _saw_ both Tsunade's physical and mental reaction to his technique, yet still concluded her breast reduces the effectiveness of the technique. The theory also went uncontested after being proposed. 



> Considering that Tsunade complained and explained _Ranshinshō_ before she attempted to heal herself, her speech can't be attributed to her having healed off all of the damage. Hidan talked _as a head_, and even if Tsunade isn't that kind of immortal her head wasn't outright severed from her body.




As I reread it, it actually appears that she wasn't damaged the bad in the first place. She stopped wheezing after the first few pages, and there were no indications of breathing problems throughout the rest of the fight. The possibility of her milking it a little is possible, as her reaction caused Kabtuo to drop his guard. 

Hidan is a bad example, because he isn't human. He can do plenty of things humans can't, such as stabbing himself in the heart and suffering no consequences even without medical attention. His body also functions with his head attached my mere stitches.



> If Sasuke pulls that maneuver Tsunade will outright crush his neck where Danzō merely choked him. Sharingan precognition isn't helping anything if he's in the air.
> 
> Ay hit Sasuke through Susano'o with the same move that didn't do jack to Madara's, while Tsunade put a hole in it (1). Her arms goes through Sasuke's Susano'o just like someone punching a hole in the wall and Sasuke dies.




I didn't say he would pull the same maneuver he did against Danzou. I was discussing the effects of Sasuke Raiton sword versus Tsunade's body as opposed to the Raikage's.

If Tsunade shattered Susano'o, I'm guessing it would go flying as that's what we saw happen in the Manga. Even if it stayed stationary for some reason, most of the force behind Tsunade's blow would've been dedicated to smashing through Susano'o. This includes the Chakra enhancement she uses upon impact, so the blow would be considerately lessened.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> Why didn't you counter my arguments, Turrin? Sasuke didn't see Chojiro until he was close, and his back was pushed against a wall of lava. Sasuke wasn't exactly confined in a room, and the mess Tsunade can create will only help Sasuke more to get away.


I don't see how I didn't address your argument. Yes Chojiro got a head start, but it's still Chojiro. Sasuke also had plenty of room to dodge to ether side.

Also Kakashi has the same speed as Sasuke, and yet when going up against Hidan who has the same speed and taijutsu stat as Tsunade, Kakashi could not easily evade all of his hits, many times he had to deflect them or narrowly dodged them:
what we saw happen
what we saw happen

And that was a perfectly healthy Kakashi. So when talking about an extremely exhausted Sasuke, there is little chance he's consistently evading Tsunade's attacks.


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## FlamingRain (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Kabuto _saw_ both Tsunade's physical and mental reaction to his technique, yet still concluded her breast reduces the effectiveness of the technique. The theory also went uncontested after being proposed.



He concluded that he just didn't reach it in the first place, not that the effectiveness was merely reduced. And how did Kabuto _see_ Tsunade's mental reaction to his technique?  Kabuto deducing that Tsunade's outward reaction was all part of her plan is certainly possible, but Tsunade wouldn't have complained about Kabuto's Jutsu sharpness in her head if he didn't reach her respiratory system, nor would she have continued wheezing _after_ she hit him.

The theory went uncontested because it was never actually said, it was a mere thought and Tsunade isn't a mind reader but had other concerns.



> As I reread it, it actually appears that she wasn't damaged the bad in the first place. She stopped wheezing after the first few pages, and there were no indications of breathing problems throughout the rest of the fight. The possibility of her milking it a little is possible, as her reaction caused Kabtuo to drop his guard.
> 
> Hidan is a bad example, because he isn't human. He can do plenty of things humans can't, such as stabbing himself in the heart and suffering no consequences even without medical attention. His body also functions with his head attached my mere stitches.



Tsunade's weezing didn't stop until Kabuto shocked her by learning how to move again.

Hidan is human, he is just immortal, and his neck seemingly healed up somehow once it was reattached.

Senjus and Uzumakis can also do plenty of things humans normally can't.

Kushina survived the should-have-been-instant-death extraction of Kurama, and immediately post-childbirth at that. Tobirama survived his side being blown off, including half of his head despite the fact that _Edo Tensei_ zombies have shown the ability to "die" as they normally would until they regenerate (Haku, Zabuza, Hanzo, "Madara", to name a few). Tsunade shifted and maneuvered her arms to perform a boss summoning despite the fact that she should have been killed instantly by such an injury and her body should have been in a state of complete paralysis after her split.

Adding "talked through respiratory injury" to the list is not by any means out of the question.



> If Tsunade shattered Susano'o, I'm guessing it would go flying as that's what we saw happen in the Manga. Even if it stayed stationary for some reason, most of the force behind Tsunade's blow would've been dedicated to smashing through Susano'o. This includes the Chakra enhancement she uses upon impact, so the blow would be considerately lessened.



Not really. The disparity in durability is large enough that Tsunade's arm will simply go through it as opposed to sending it flying backwards.

Ay's chop merely succeeded in pushing Madara's _Susano'o_ further into Mei's lava, but he still hit Sasuke through his (and it only went flying because Sasuke himself went flying). Tsunade sent Orochimaru flying backwards, too. That doesn't mean everyone she hits will go flying back in the same manner- she punched "Madara" so hard that _she_ flew in one side of him and out the other.

The same thing will happen here, since Tsunade's fist already dug into Madara's where Ay's did not, her fist will penetrate this _comparatively_ weak _Susano'o_ and smash Sasuke worse than Ay did. If her Chakra-charge disperses after the initial impact with the ribcage her natural strength is still enough to knock Sasuke out.


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## Nikushimi (Nov 2, 2013)

The World said:


> Your fanfic is evidence?
> 
> That Hebi Sauce is above Tsunade?



I said MS Sasuke would beat Tsunade because that's what this thread is for.

Saikyou was explaining why Chidori would definitely stop Tsunade, which he even provided a link for.

Although if you want me to explain why Hebi Sasuke beats Tsunade, saikyou's post is probably the first thing I'd point out- that, and Sasuke's insane durability in his second Juin form, his enhanced healing factor with the white snake powers, his superior speed, and his Genjutsu.



> He never even used arrows from Susano-o during the actual summit only after Tobi had to rescue him and Karin cured him did he use it on Danzou
> 
> typical saiyan shounen powerup



I was assuming that Sasuke at his fight with Danzou was just the peak of his ability from the Kage Summit. Even without the arrows, Sasuke can just stab her with a chakra sword. Same thing.



> Not like it matters anyway
> 
> Tsunade broke through EMS Mads Susano-o and tanked his Swords multiple times sooooooooo
> 
> ...



Tsunade only broke open Susano'o with the Raikage's help, and she still failed to do any damage to Madara's body. That was only the ribcage of Susano'o, as well; Sasuke could manifest a more complete version than that, even at the Kage Summit.


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## The World (Nov 2, 2013)

You'd be wrong, but that's okay


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## LostSelf (Nov 2, 2013)

Turrin said:


> I don't see how I didn't address your argument. Yes Chojiro got a head start, but it's still Chojiro. Sasuke also had plenty of room to dodge to ether side.



He reacted late because he didn't see him (The smoke of the lava was obscuring his vision). But yeah, you answered this part. But Sasuke's back was against a lava room. And Mei was there to attack him again if he stopped Susano'o, not his best choice. There's the probability that Sasuke didn't take Chojiro's attack as threatening, since he didn't even know the blade's effect.



> Also Kakashi has the same speed as Sasuke, and yet when going up against Hidan who has the same speed and taijutsu stat as Tsunade, Kakashi could not easily evade all of his hits, many times he had to deflect them or narrowly dodged them:
> what we saw happen
> what we saw happen
> 
> And that was a perfectly healthy Kakashi. So when talking about an extremely exhausted Sasuke, there is little chance he's consistently evading Tsunade's attacks.



Hidan had a large weapon, an acrobatic style, more speed than Tsunade if we follow DB, and Kakashi was not perfectly healthy [1] and he had the speed to dodge not only Hidan, but a surprise attack from one of Kakuzu's masks.

We know how weak Kakashi used to get while using Sharingan, to the point of hardly moving.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> He reacted late because he didn't see him (The smoke of the lava was obscuring his vision). But yeah, you answered this part. But Sasuke's back was against a lava room. And Mei was there to attack him again if he stopped Susano'o, not his best choice. There's the probability that Sasuke didn't take Chojiro's attack as threatening, since he didn't even know the blade's effect.


So Chojiro got the initiative, Sasuke not dodging still reflects the fact that he was not in great condition as otherwise he would have still dodged. 

You keep repeating his back was against the room, but he still had room to dodge to ether side. You keep repeating he had to keep Susano'o activated, but Susano'o in no way impedes his ability to dodge. So to me these two points are irrelevant.



> Hidan had a large weapon,


The shock waves from Tsunade's punches cover more AOE than that weapon, and all Tsunade needs to do is knock Sasuke off his feet or into the air, ether way it would open him up to attack. I also do not think that Hidan's scythe would matter that much.



> an acrobatic style


If anything Tsunade as a legendary sannin with vastly more exp than Hidan would have a more refined Taijutsu style. And her style in the sense that it's all about creating shock-waves, messing with the person's foot-hold, and forcing them into the air is much more adept at slowing the enemy down than Hidan's.



> more speed than Tsunade if we follow DB


No he doesn't. They both have a 3.5. If anything Tsunade should be much faster with Shunshin though. Since she has vastly superior chakra control and a massive amount of chakra in her Yin-seal to power her Shunshins.



> and Kakashi was not perfectly healthy [1]


Really a scuff mark slowed him down, this is really reaching.



> and he had the speed to dodge not only Hidan, but a surprise attack from one of Kakuzu's masks.


He had the speed to handle Hidan's attacks for sure, the problem is many times he resorted to deflecting Hidan's blows, instead of evading them outright, if that had been Tsunade he'd have been killed since her blows would go right through his attempts to deflect them.



> We know how weak Kakashi used to get while using Sharingan, to the point of hardly moving.


Your talking about Wave-Arc  Kakashi, completely inapplicable to Part II Kakashi.

Also let's not forget that Tsunade managed to land a blow on Madara three times:
[1]
Link removed
Link removed

Madara wasn't weakened ether, as Sasuke is here.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

@ FlamingRain

I suppose Tsunade did defy science my moving with a bisected spine, so there isn't any need to contest the smaller points.

Nevertheless, fighting without access to air is going to affect her combat ability, fighting with severely limited vision is going to affect her combat ability, and fighting in constant pain from Amaterasu is going to really affect her combat ability.

Even if she should get up from Amaterasu, Sasuke is free to repeatedly blast her with Fire Style or maul her with Eisou outside her range, while she blindly swings at him and misses every time thanks to the Sharingan. He can even use Enton to shape the flames on her face into spikes, subsequently skewering her brain.  

She doesn't stand a chance If Amaterasu lands.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> @ FlamingRain
> 
> I suppose Tsunade did defy science my moving with a bisected spine, so there isn't any need to contest the smaller points.
> 
> ...



The best I see her doing on black fire is rushing a very baffled and freaked out Sasuke for an Ameterasu hug.

Sasuke's face when a burning woman rushes him. ->


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

saikyou said:


> After stabbing Yamato's shoulder with Chidori, Yamato's whole body started going numb.
> 
> Chidori Eiso to the gut would stop Tsunade. Especially if Sasuke blossoms it.



Check a few pages later.  He will powered out of it.  If Yamato can will power out of paralyses, Tsuande should be able to.

You also have to be actively flowing your raiton into the person for that to work, just like Sasuke had to change chidori into a taster palm to stun Bee.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Nov 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Kabuto _saw_ both Tsunade's physical and mental reaction to his technique, yet still concluded her breast reduces the effectiveness of the technique. The theory also went uncontested after being proposed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Madara's ribcage is way better than Sasuke's.

Raikage was busting up Sasuke's crappy cage, but he needed an Onoki boost to do any damage at all to Madara's ribs.  

Not to mention, Sasuke was very badly hurt from Raikage's suplex and karate chop, even though his Susano took the brunt of the damage and "went flying" like you said after the chop, all he could do was lay there and let Raikage kick him looking really sad.

Since Tsunade can shatter Madara's superior Susano without aid, that puts her far above Ei.  So she needs very little force left over to break Sasuke's 115 pounds of crazy face, even if her fist doesn't go straight through and explode him.  He'd just lay there, and not get back up.  And then I guess she'd heel drop him.  And for once, everyone not a Sasuke fan would have been happy with Kishimoto.  LB would have gone into spasms.




> The theory went uncontested because it was never actually said, it was a mere thought and Tsunade isn't a mind reader but had other concerns.



She also punched Kabuto in the face right after that, so he probably stopped caring.  He was either thinking about how to move in raishinsho, or more probably, "Not the face! Not the face! Not the face! AH IT WAS THE FACE!"


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## LostSelf (Nov 2, 2013)

Turrin said:


> So Chojiro got the initiative, Sasuke not dodging still reflects the fact that he was not in great condition as otherwise he would have still dodged.



Not dodging could also mean he didn't took Chojiro's attack as threatening.



> You keep repeating his back was against the room, but he still had room to dodge to ether side. You keep repeating he had to keep Susano'o activated, but Susano'o in no way impedes his ability to dodge. So to me these two points are irrelevant.



Yeah, with Mei there ready to assault him with another shoot of lava. Therefore he needed Susano'o activated. Susano'o doesn't impede Sasuke's movement , but that's not the point. The point is that we are not so sure he couldn't dodge Chojiro.



> The shock waves from Tsunade's punches cover more AOE than that weapon, and all Tsunade needs to do is knock Sasuke off his feet or into the air, ether way it would open him up to attack. I also do not think that Hidan's scythe would matter that much.



When has sending someone into the air worked? This tactic for genins doesn't always work with Kage level opponents, and in a building, destryoing it will only help Sasuke, because Tsunade might not be affected by the blast, but will be affected as well by the building falling apart.



> If anything Tsunade as a legendary sannin with vastly more exp than Hidan would have a more refined Taijutsu style. And her style in the sense that it's all about creating shock-waves, messing with the person's foot-hold, and forcing them into the air is much more adept at slowing the enemy down than Hidan's.



It might be. But this comparison doesn't involve Sasuke.

Disrupting kage level shinobis balance is not something you would count for victory. As they can effectively jump and maneuver in the air, or trick her.



> No he doesn't. They both have a 3.5. If anything Tsunade should be much faster with Shunshin though. Since she has vastly superior chakra control and a massive amount of chakra in her Yin-seal to power her Shunshins.



My bad with the speed, thought he had a 4 don't know why.



> Really a scuff mark slowed him down, this is really reaching.



Turrin, he clearly commented how 4 Raikiris and having Sharingan activated were forcing him to end this quick. This is not there for decoration.



> He had the speed to handle Hidan's attacks for sure, the problem is many times he resorted to deflecting Hidan's blows, instead of evading them outright, if that had been Tsunade he'd have been killed since her blows would go right through his attempts to deflect them.



Sure, Hidan managed that with a huge ass explosion and he clearly has more reach than Tsunade with his weapon, if we go by just throwing hits in the air.



> Your talking about Wave-Arc  Kakashi, completely inapplicable to Part II Kakashi.



Applicable still, but not with the same consecuences. Kakashi commented on it. I posted the scan in my last response.



> Also let's not forget that Tsunade managed to land a blow on Madara three times:
> what we saw happen



Yeah. A Madara that doesn't even bothered to dodge.



> what we saw happen



With an combined effort of the kages, AND a clone.



> what we saw happen



She hit nobody here.




> Madara wasn't weakened ether, as Sasuke is here.



Madara was playing with them, Sasuke isn't. However. Still not claiming that she can't touch him in here.


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## kaminogan (Nov 2, 2013)

so this is basically a discussion of whether sasuke is serious or not...


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> Not dodging could also mean he didn't took Chojiro's attack as threatening.


His look of surprise says otherwise, and if he that stupid to take an attack simply because it doesn't look threatening he'll probably just take Tsunade's attack



> Yeah, with Mei there ready to assault him with another shoot of lava. Therefore he needed Susano'o activated. Susano'o doesn't impede Sasuke's movement , but that's not the point. The point is that we are not so sure he couldn't dodge Chojiro.


So like I said Susano'o is irrelevant to the discussion of his evasive ability.



> When has sending someone into the air worked? .


Why wouldn't it work? If your in the air, you can't dodge (unless you can fly), it's as simple as that. 



> This tactic for genins doesn't always work with Kage level opponents, and in a building, destryoing it will only help Sasuke, because Tsunade might not be affected by the blast, but will be affected as well by the building falling apart


Depends how Tsunade uses her blows.



> It might be. But this comparison doesn't involve Sasuke.
> 
> Disrupting kage level shinobis balance is not something you would count for victory. As they can effectively jump and maneuver in the air, or trick her.


How are they jumping when already in the air? Their maneuverability in the air, is limit, which is the whole point. They can't evade as well in the air and speed becomes rather meaningless.



> Turrin, he clearly commented how 4 Raikiris and having Sharingan activated were forcing him to end this quick. This is not there for decoration.


I though you were talking about the physical "injuries", and sure he commented that he used a fair amount of chakra, but that isn't going to slow down his speed. Just means he'll run out of chakra if he keeps up this pace.



> Sure, Hidan managed that with a huge ass explosion and he clearly has more reach than Tsunade with his weapon, if we go by just throwing hits in the air.


I linked you two scans, in the second one Hidan and Kakashi are just clashing. And I really think your overrating Hidan's reach.



> Applicable still, but not with the same consecuences. Kakashi commented on it. I posted the scan in my last response.


He commented on his chakra not his physical well being.



> Yeah. A Madara that doesn't even bothered to dodge.


Nothing indicates Madara wasn't bothering to dodge, that's a weak excuse.



> With an combined effort of the kages, AND a clone.


Huh, the kages did nothing there, tsunade simply hit him. 



> She hit nobody here.


Yes she did, her attack was just defended. 



> Madara was playing with them, Sasuke isn't. However. Still not claiming that she can't touch him in here.


This just an excuse to me, Madara may not have been going full force, but that doesn't suddenly alter his relfexes and speed. Sasuke is half dead at this point.


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## LostSelf (Nov 2, 2013)

Turrin said:


> His look of surprise says otherwise, and if he that stupid to take an attack simply because it doesn't look threatening he'll probably just take Tsunade's attack



It's not stupid. Uchihas does that all the time. It's a defense that tanked a liger bomb. And once Sasuke sees Tsunade's strenght (something he should know of), he won't block it with anything. His look of surprise could've been because he saw the blade extending as well.



> So like I said Susano'o is irrelevant to the discussion of his evasive ability.



It is, because it?s not the point i was trying to make



> Why wouldn't it work? If your in the air, you can't dodge (unless you can fly), it's as simple as that.



Kakashi cannot fly. And he maneuvered here. And this is something harder to avoid than punching the ground [1][2]



> Depends how Tsunade uses her blows.



Agreed. But she would need pretty strong hits to make Sasuke lose it's footing bad enough for her to get a clean hit. An attack like the one she used on Orochimaru and Kabuto would be easily dodged, and this would make the building collapse.



> How are they jumping when already in the air? Their maneuverability in the air, is limit, which is the whole point. They can't evade as well in the air and speed becomes rather meaningless.



I didn't mean jumping in the air. Jumping to dodge her punch, or maneuver in the air. I already provided a scan about it.



> I though you were talking about the physical "injuries", and sure he commented that he used a fair amount of chakra, but that isn't going to slow down his speed. Just means he'll run out of chakra if he keeps up this pace.



Kakashi passed away because of this. Sasuke was barely standing in his fight with Deidara because of chakra loss, Nagato died of chakra exhaustion, the aliance was dying when the Jubi stole all their chakra. It affects physical condition, and Sharingan has been affecting Kakashi since part 1. He just got more stamina as time passed.



> I linked you two scans, in the second one Hidan and Kakashi are just clashing. And I really think your overrating Hidan's reach.



Yeah, they clashed, one scan is after Kakuzu shoots a hige Katon, they are both forced to jump and Hidan surprises Kakashi. And it's not overrating, Hidan could only clash with Kakashi because of the scythe, because if you see his arm, is not even close to Kakashi, his Scythe is simply larger than Tsunade's arm, she would need to be closer for him. Just that.



> He commented on his chakra not his physical well being.



Already replied above.



> Nothing indicates Madara wasn't bothering to dodge, that's a weak excuse.



So, an average in speed girl moved a long distance, and the God of Uchihas, who reacts to V1 Ei was so overwhelmed that he needed Susano'o. That's what you are claiming?



> Huh, the kages did nothing there, tsunade simply hit him.



He was put in that position thanks to the effort of Tsunade, Mei, Onoki and Ei, (And because Madara didn't dodge the first blow).



> Yes she did, her attack was just defended.



But she didn't hit him. She just used Madara's own long blade to do it. Hitting Susano'o is not an amazing feat.



> This just an excuse to me, Madara may not have been going full force, but that doesn't suddenly alter his relfexes and speed. Sasuke is half dead at this point.



Sure, i know it doesn't affect his reflexes. But he took the Gokage lightly. Enough for being standing there as Tsunade ran towards him and do nothing but to use Susano'o, enough for letting himself be hit to show them Hashirama's face. And enough to test them. Almost all the hits they did was because Madara let them.


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## nmwn93 (Nov 2, 2013)

first off, Tsunade owns. by the time he arrived to the five kages room he wasn't 100 percent. and Tsunade being the spit fire she is she would have leapt asap like chojouiro did and unlike when chojuiro hit him he will go through more than one mere wall. and Tsunade will be on him like white on rice. I don't know if you take blunt force trauma from being inside a susanoo but judging from the hits sasuke took from ei I think you do take blunt force trauma. staying inside susano is probably the worse thing he can do. your all acting like sasuke has a lot of chakra, not at all. and its def no where near Tsunade . so spamming amatarusu isn't wise considering the amount of chakra it takes and also the strain on his eyes. lightning style attacks we can speculate that Tsunade has a lightning chakra nature so lightning may not effect her at all. so all he has is fire style but do you think his fire style is on the level of madara's at the five kage summit? and she wouldn't tank it because she isn't protecting anyone. also since sasuke wouldn't use kirin I don't think he stands much of  a chance


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## nmwn93 (Nov 2, 2013)

oh and if he tries to do to Tsunade what he did to ei (using amatarusu on his susanoo to make tsunades hand catch fire on impact) that could be the worse thing for him to do. why because Tsunade is breaking that susanoo and then her fiery fist touches him and he catches fire he will have to cancel the jutsu, well, if he doesn't get completely ripped in half like madara's wood clone that is. (wood is harder than skin too btw)


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## kaminogan (Nov 2, 2013)

that would be what would happen in a speed equal scen thou,

sasuke is fast enough to avoid CQC,

he also has katon as a smoke screen in case she gets close,


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

The Pirate on Wheels said:


> The best I see her doing on black fire is rushing a very baffled and freaked out Sasuke for an Ameterasu hug.
> 
> Sasuke's face when a burning woman rushes him. ->




And she eats a Fire Dragon to the face.


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## Rocky (Nov 2, 2013)

Turrin said:


> How are they jumping when already in the air? Their maneuverability in the air, is limit, which is the whole point. They can't evade as well in the air and speed becomes rather meaningless.



See:

Itachi dodging Hebi Sasuke's point blank Chidori while airborne.


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## Bonly Jr. (Nov 2, 2013)

Lol, I see people are thinking of ways in which Tsunade dies.

Amaterasu fries her.

Kirin fries her.

Susano'o hands crushes her to nothing, as it did with Danzo.

He hacks her to bits and bits.

Tsunade is not winning this.


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## kaminogan (Nov 2, 2013)

yea amaterasu is her weakness,

im sure shell get a speed upgrade in near future thou,


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> It's not stupid. Uchihas does that all the time.


It's really stupid to take an attack of unknown quality that someone could otherwise evade.



> It's a defense that tanked a liger bomb. And once Sasuke sees Tsunade's strenght (something he should know of), he won't block it with anything. His look of surprise could've been because he saw the blade extending as well.


I see no reason to think that if Sasuke intentionally took an attack of unknown quantity he wouldn't just try to tank Tsunade's attack. He wouldn't know how strong Tsunade is because he left Konoha soon after Tsunade returned to Konoha.



> Kakashi cannot fly. And he maneuvered here. And this is something harder to avoid than punching the ground [1][2]


He evaded it off panel we, don't know how he did it. It might be that he jumped using a tree as a foot-hold, or used his chain to pull himself out of the way from the air. Or maybe he didn't evade at all, and used a Jutsu to block enough of the blast to survive. We don't know, how he did it, but someone can't just magically evade if the are in the air and have nothing to jump off of.



> Agreed. But she would need pretty strong hits to make Sasuke lose it's footing bad enough for her to get a clean hit. An attack like the one she used on Orochimaru and Kabuto would be easily dodged, and this would make the building collapse.


I don't really see an issue with the building collapsing to be honest. Building Collapse isn't doing anything to Byakugo Tsunade. Sasuke would have to use Susano'o to escape and that would exhaust him even more. Tsunade would easily break free of debree with her strength.



> Kakashi passed away because of this. Sasuke was barely standing in his fight with Deidara because of chakra loss, Nagato died of chakra exhaustion, the aliance was dying when the Jubi stole all their chakra. It affects physical condition, and Sharingan has been affecting Kakashi since part 1. He just got more stamina as time passed.


Kakashi did not use up that much chakra at that point. He casually used another 2 Rarikiri later in the fight w/o issue.



> Yeah, they clashed, one scan is after Kakuzu shoots a hige Katon, they are both forced to jump and Hidan surprises Kakashi. And it's not overrating, Hidan could only clash with Kakashi because of the scythe, because if you see his arm, is not even close to Kakashi, his Scythe is simply larger than Tsunade's arm, she would need to be closer for him. Just that.


I don't know how you know Hidan's arm was not near Kakashi when they are clashing as a blur. 



> So, an average in speed girl moved a long distance, and the God of Uchihas, who reacts to V1 Ei was so overwhelmed that he needed Susano'o. That's what you are claiming?


Tsunade using her leg strength (great enough to shatter Susano'o like nothing) to propel her forward into a very fast jump managed to land a hit on Madara. Yeah that's exactly what i'm arguing.



> He was put in that position thanks to the effort of Tsunade, Mei, Onoki and Ei, (And because Madara didn't dodge the first blow).


What position? He was perfectly able to dodge, but he didn't and god hit.



> But she didn't hit him. She just used Madara's own long blade to do it. Hitting Susano'o is not an amazing feat.


That's landing a hit on him. Not with her own arm, but it still shows an attack Madara couldn't dodge.



> Sure, i know it doesn't affect his reflexes. But he took the Gokage lightly. Enough for being standing there as Tsunade ran towards him and do nothing but to use Susano'o, enough for letting himself be hit to show them Hashirama's face. And enough to test them. Almost all the hits they did was because Madara let them.


Nothing indicates Madara let Tsunade hit her, and that's a very convenient argument imo.


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## LostSelf (Nov 3, 2013)

Turrin said:


> It's really stupid to take an attack of unknown quality that someone could otherwise evade.



It's not stupid trying to block a normal blade. By the time the blade surprisingly extended, it was too late.



> I see no reason to think that if Sasuke intentionally took an attack of unknown quantity he wouldn't just try to tank Tsunade's attack. He wouldn't know how strong Tsunade is because he left Konoha soon after Tsunade returned to Konoha.



Because at this point he would know of her strenght if he fought her before (Don't know if OP is counting this). Or he might know about it from Oro and Kabuto.



> He evaded it off panel we, don't know how he did it. It might be that he jumped using a tree as a foot-hold, or used his chain to pull himself out of the way from the air. Or maybe he didn't evade at all, and used a Jutsu to block enough of the blast to survive. We don't know, how he did it, but someone can't just magically evade if the are in the air and have nothing to jump off of.



Nothing off panel. Kakashi jumped, clashed with Hidan, the mask appears charging the attack and then attacked. All this was drawn in a secuence. Kakashi avoided it in the air. None of Kakashi's jutsu can stop such a blast. There's no evidence of him doing anything. The safest thing to assume aside from him evading the blast, is him using a substitution jutsu. Something any other high level ninja can do.



> I don't really see an issue with the building collapsing to be honest. Building Collapse isn't doing anything to Byakugo Tsunade. Sasuke would have to use Susano'o to escape and that would exhaust him even more. Tsunade would easily break free of debree with her strength.



Nothing bad for Tsunade. Aside from the fact that Sasuke won't be caged anymore and will have more probability to leave.



> Kakashi did not use up that much chakra at that point. He casually used another 2 Rarikiri later in the fight w/o issue.



I don't know man. It's Kakashi's words there. He's clearly worried about the jutsus he had been using and because of the sharingan. But yeah, he used one to save Naruto and one to kill Kakuzu. Either way, he was worried about extending the fight.



> I don't know how you know Hidan's arm was not near Kakashi when they are clashing as a blur.



We don't need to know. If you have a weapon that large, you won't strike in a distance where your arm is close enough to hit the enemy with it. Kakashi was blocking the scythe, and here you can see how far was Hidan's hand from Kakashi [1]



> Tsunade using her leg strength (great enough to shatter Susano'o like nothing) to propel her forward into a very fast jump managed to land a hit on Madara. Yeah that's exactly what i'm arguing.



Just that it was not very fast. Tsunade had time to have a conversation with Madara mid travel. And Madara called her slower than the Raikage. Someone he could react to effectively. She did nothing fast here.



> What position? He was perfectly able to dodge, but he didn't and god hit.



He wasn't. We don't know what really happened here since every other thing was off panel, the kages were in diferent position than when they were last time, counting that it was a clone. And Madara pretty much says this happened because they were 5 vs 1. Tsunade also said he was able to outwit the five of them. So the other kages had something to do here that forced Madara to use a clone. Not only Tsunade.



> That's landing a hit on him. Not with her own arm, but it still shows an attack Madara couldn't dodge.



That's landing a hit on Susano'o because Madara stabbed her, that has nothing to do with his speed. And it was no need for him to dodge or to do anything right there. Madara wasn't bothering dodging hits almost the entire fight, and it wasn't because he couldn't. Because if he reacted to Ei, he could react much better to the others.



> Nothing indicates Madara let Tsunade hit her, and that's a very convenient argument imo.



In your first scan and third scans, yes. Especially the first. In the second it was a teamwork, nothing she did by herself, and the only thing they managed was hitting a clone.


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## Lord Aizen (Nov 3, 2013)

Didn't even need to read OP sasuke wins


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2013)

LostSelf said:


> It's not stupid trying to block a normal blade. By the time the blade surprisingly extended, it was too late.


It's pretty stupid when plenty of blades have unknown qualities in the Naruto world.



> Because at this point he would know of her strenght if he fought her before (Don't know if OP is counting this). Or he might know about it from Oro and Kabuto.


When did he fight her before? I also kind of doubt Oro or Kabuto were having story time and telling Sasuke about Tsunade's exploits. 



> Nothing off panel. Kakashi jumped, clashed with Hidan, the mask appears charging the attack and then attacked. All this was drawn in a secuence. Kakashi avoided it in the air. None of Kakashi's jutsu can stop such a blast. There's no evidence of him doing anything. The safest thing to assume aside from him evading the blast, is him using a substitution jutsu. Something any other high level ninja can do.


-It was off panel, as we did not see how Kakashi handled the blast
-The safest assumption is not that he magically somehow evade in the middle of air, when he doesn't have flight
-Kakashi has command of over 1,000 Jutsu, to say there is no way he could have a jutsu that bails him out in that scenario is a pretty big assumption
-Kwarimi is plot-kai as far as i'm concerned as it's usages often make no-sense. So if were just going to throw Kwarimi plot Kai into this than, Tsunade can just magically Kwarimi through all of Sasuke attacks and use it to appear behind him landing her own attacks, to which Sasuke Kwarimi's, and this continues until their chakra runs out, which Sasuke runs out of first and he looses. Tho has Sasuke even shown he can use Kwarimi?



> Nothing bad for Tsunade. Aside from the fact that Sasuke won't be caged anymore and will have more probability to leave.


Which again relies on Sasuke leaving Tsunade in the dust, which I don't see happening.



> I don't know man. It's Kakashi's words there. He's clearly worried about the jutsus he had been using and because of the sharingan. But yeah, he used one to save Naruto and one to kill Kakuzu. Either way, he was worried about extending the fight.


He's worried about the future, he doesn't say it's slowing him down speed-wise.



> We don't need to know. If you have a weapon that large, you won't strike in a distance where your arm is close enough to hit the enemy with it. Kakashi was blocking the scythe, and here you can see how far was Hidan's hand from Kakashi [1]


Not that far, it's not like Kakashi was able to leave Hidan in the dust as Sasuke would have to, to flee from Tsunade. And Tsunade's jumping power is going to be far superior to Hidan's in that instance, so covering that little bit of extra distance is hardly an issue.



> Just that it was not very fast. Tsunade had time to have a conversation with Madara mid travel. .


I'm talking about the second jump in the middle left panel, not the first jump where Madara and her were talking. He could have moved there, but they were talking and she was out of range to do anything. Than she landed closer and launched her attack after the convo was over, it's that attack i'm referring to.



> And Madara called her slower than the Raikage. Someone he could react to effectively. She did nothing fast here


So wait you need to be Ei level to be fast? That makes no sense. 



> He wasn't. We don't know what really happened here since every other thing was off panel, the kages were in diferent position than when they were last time, counting that it was a clone. And Madara pretty much says this happened because they were 5 vs 1. Tsunade also said he was able to outwit the five of them. So the other kages had something to do here that forced Madara to use a clone. Not only Tsunade.


Of course they had something to do with it, as they helped deal with his Susano'o and counter his Katon, etc.. That has nothing to do with the fact that Madara couldn't outright evade Tsunade's attack.



> That's landing a hit on Susano'o because Madara stabbed her, that has nothing to do with his speed. And it was no need for him to dodge or to do anything right there. Madara wasn't bothering dodging hits almost the entire fight, and it wasn't because he couldn't. Because if he reacted to Ei, he could react much better to the others.


Madara used Susano'o to block because he couldn't evade, and he never evaded Ei's attack.



> In your first scan and third scans, yes. Especially the first. In the second it was a teamwork, nothing she did by herself, and the only thing they managed was hitting a clone.


The Madara let them hit him argument is like me saying Tsunade has just not shown her full speed, it's an argument of conveniece and excuses

Naruto also has a 3.5 in speed and kept up with Deva Realm, who was keeping up with Kakashi. 

There are tons of examples of this, and again against characters who are not exhausted like Sasuke. So again I find just reaching for excuses for everything is much more silly than just accepting that someone with a 3.5 in speed isn't being danced circles around by someone with Sasuke's speed.


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## Jagger (Nov 3, 2013)

I don't think landing a punch on a man that is not really trying to fight you isn't that impressive, but that's just me. In the first stance, Madara didn't even try to move and didn't expect Tsunade to be physically stronger than the Rikage. 

In the other one, Madara didn't even dodge Tsunade's punch because he was a Mokuton clone. He knew nothing would happen if Tsunade landed a blow on him and he was right. He stabbed her second laters. Now, in the hird one, I guess I can agree it's impressive, but Madara also though she was already dead.


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I don't think landing a punch on a man that is not really trying to fight you isn't that impressive, but that's just me. In the first stance, Madara didn't even try to move and didn't expect Tsunade to be physically stronger than the Rikage.
> 
> In the other one, Madara didn't even dodge Tsunade's punch because he was a Mokuton clone. He knew nothing would happen if Tsunade landed a blow on him and he was right. He stabbed her second laters. Now, in the hird one, I guess I can agree it's impressive, but Madara also though she was already dead.


Jagger why are we assuming that if Madara thought Rib-Cage Susano'o can defend Tsunade's blows than Sasuke wouldn't think the same thing? I mean you can argue he wasn't worried about taking the hit, but than the same applies to Sasuke.

He was not a Mokuton Clone when Tsunade hit him, you can see that by the fact that Madara is made up of the same material as the Tensei, not wood. Madara swapped with the clone later.

I agree with you that Madara thought she was dead, but there is no reason that Sasuke isn't going to think the same thing.


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## Jagger (Nov 3, 2013)

Turrin said:


> Jagger why are we assuming that if Madara thought Rib-Cage Susano'o can defend Tsunade's blows than Sasuke wouldn't think the same thing? I mean you can argue he wasn't worried about taking the hit, but than the same applies to Sasuke.


Except he didn't really need to. In order to break, Tsunade needed Mei's, Onoki/A's support. Besides, there is a difference between Sasuke and Madara. One is arrogant and other one is not that much. Madara is a zombie that can regenerate with an unlimites amount of chakra, Sasuke is a human being with limits, I think he is smart enough to know Tsunade might break her Susano'O.



> He was not a Mokuton Clone when Tsunade hit him, you can see that by the fact that Madara is made up of the same material as the Tensei, not wood. Madara swapped with the clone later.


Oh boy, not you too. So Madara could swap himself with a clone while being observed by everyone and after using half of his body is torn away like nothing. Are you serious? It requires a hand seal to produce a clone.



> I agree with you that Madara thought she was dead, but there is no reason that Sasuke isn't going to think the same thing.


Sasuke will just roast her and stab her skull.


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## Veracity (Nov 3, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Except he didn't really need to. In order to break, Tsunade needed Mei's, Onoki/A's support. Besides, there is a difference between Sasuke and Madara. One is arrogant and other one is not that much. Madara is a zombie that can regenerate with an unlimites amount of chakra, Sasuke is a human being with limits, I think he is smart enough to know Tsunade might break her Susano'O.
> 
> 
> Oh boy, not you too. So Madara could swap himself with a clone while being observed by everyone and after using half of his body is torn away like nothing. Are you serious? It requires a hand seal to produce a clone.
> ...



Roasting and Stabbing her skull isn't killing her. Only techs that completely destroy her like FRS and Jinton are ending Tsunade. 

Beheading is a LARGE assumption.


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## LostSelf (Nov 3, 2013)

Turrin said:


> It's pretty stupid when plenty of blades have unknown qualities in the Naruto world.



No knowledge of the blade still. Arrogant as Sasuke is, who thought he could take on Kabuto by himself.



> When did he fight her before? I also kind of doubt Oro or Kabuto were having story time and telling Sasuke about Tsunade's exploits.



If the other scenarios counts here i meant. And i doubt that the first thing Sasuke will do is block Tsunade with Susano'o, therefore he will eventually gain knowledge when she misses a hit.



> -It was off panel, as we did not see how Kakashi handled the blast
> -The safest assumption is not that he magically somehow evade in the middle of air, when he doesn't have flight
> -Kakashi has command of over 1,000 Jutsu, to say there is no way he could have a jutsu that bails him out in that scenario is a pretty big assumption
> -Kwarimi is plot-kai as far as i'm concerned as it's usages often make no-sense. So if were just going to throw Kwarimi plot Kai into this than, Tsunade can just magically Kwarimi through all of Sasuke attacks and use it to appear behind him landing her own attacks, to which Sasuke Kwarimi's, and this continues until their chakra runs out, which Sasuke runs out of first and he looses. Tho has Sasuke even shown he can use Kwarimi?



I don't care if Kawarimi is plot no jutsu or anything. The point is that Kakashi outmaneuvered a blast while being in the air. 1000 jutsus is featless and you are not sure if he did tomething that countered the huge ass attack, that was _not_ shown  be countered with anything.

You want another scan of people countering the super overrated punching the ground? Naruto and Obito are effortessly jumping from rock to rock [1].

Or, the scan that *Rocky* posted [...]

 I don't see punching the ground and throwing a kage level opponent out of balance as a good evidence, especially when it's just especulation.

Sasuke doesn't need to show Kawarimi, nor to use it. The point is that people can maneuver/attack/defend while being in the air. They don't become fish out of the water just because Tsunade punched the ground.



> Which again relies on Sasuke leaving Tsunade in the dust, which I don't see happening.



Wich was the point of that scenario. Sasuke going to look for Danzo. Therefore he wins managing to escape her.



> He's worried about the future, he doesn't say it's slowing him down speed-wise.



He doesn't need to comment he is getting slower. We know chakra loss or strain affects your physical condition, and he didn't mentioned this because of nothing.



> Not that far, it's not like Kakashi was able to leave Hidan in the dust as Sasuke would have to, to flee from Tsunade. And Tsunade's jumping power is going to be far superior to Hidan's in that instance, so covering that little bit of extra distance is hardly an issue.



It was far from Kakashi, without the scythe, Hidan would've never touched him. That, and without the aid of Kakuzu either. Covering that extra distance is something when the opponent is faster than you, and is going in the same direction as you. And once Tsunade jumps with her jumping power never shown (other shinobis have jumped higher than her easily), she's bound to gravity and law physics. Sasuke just needs to move to jump to the sides and keep jumping, while Tsunade crashes or forces herself to stop the momentum behind her.



> I'm talking about the second jump in the middle left panel, not the first jump where Madara and her were talking. He could have moved there, but they were talking and she was out of range to do anything. Than she landed closer and launched her attack after the convo was over, it's that attack i'm referring to.



It doesn't look like she moved so fast for him to be pressured. He still called her "slower than the Raikage"



> So wait you need to be Ei level to be fast? That makes no sense.



Don't twist my words, Turrin. You said she moved so fast that the only thing Madara could do was put up Susano'o. When Madara has shown to react to V1 Raikage with no problem at all, and not a normal attack, a surprise assault while Madara was forced to dodge Mei's lava [2][3]. Even Ei compliments his reaction [4].

If he could keep up with V1 Ei, he can keep up with anything Tsunade has.



> Of course they had something to do with it, as they helped deal with his Susano'o and counter his Katon, etc.. That has nothing to do with the fact that Madara couldn't outright evade Tsunade's attack.



How Tsunade hit him was off panel. Unless they stood looking at him while Dan was talking about how powerful Madara is, then the 5 of them did something to put Madara's clone in a corner, as said by both, Madara and Tsunade.



> Madara used Susano'o to block because he couldn't evade, and he never evaded Ei's attack.



No. Madara had Susano'o all the time he had Tsunade stabbed. He made it harder when he was about to be hit, that doesn't mean he couldn't dodge at all. Why move when he had Tsunade grabbed and she would move with him? He never evaded Ei's attack, but he reacted to a surprise punch from him, after Mei's lava distracted him and forced him to jump. He moved his guard when Ei's attack was inches from his face. If he did that, he is more than capable of dodging Tsunade.



> The Madara let them hit him argument is like me saying Tsunade has just not shown her full speed, it's an argument of conveniece and excuses



It's not. Because you are assuming Tsunade was too fast for him, when there is evidence of him reacting to a much faster Shinobi in a horrible position. Yet Tsunade pressures him? This makes no sense. He didn't bother to dodge or just chose to block, but he was _never_ pressured by her.



> Naruto also has a 3.5 in speed and kept up with Deva Realm, who was keeping up with Kakashi.



Naruto was on the defensive for a brief skirmish. It's not the same as standing there and fight. when base Naruto tried to match Deva in CqC, he was fodderized.



> There are tons of examples of this, and again against characters who are not exhausted like Sasuke. So again I find just reaching for excuses for everything is much more silly than just accepting that someone with a 3.5 in speed isn't being danced circles around by someone with Sasuke's speed.



You are putting words in my mouth. Where did i say that Sasuke can run circles around Tsunade?  Apparently, slower characters matching faster ones are only applicable to Tsunade. But i can say the same here. If a slower character can defend himself against a faster one, then Sasuke, who is not only faster than her, but exceeds her in reflexes and can predict her movements would have no trouble dodging and defending against her. And if Sasuke predicted Ei's much faster attack, he wouldn't have much troubles predicting and dodging Tsunade's.

You can see it with excuses, but i've been countering those with scans and examples occurred in the manga. 

And again, i never said Tsunade couldn't touch Sasuke, especially this weakened one.


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Except he didn't really need to. In order to break, Tsunade needed Mei's, Onoki/A's support. Besides, there is a difference between Sasuke and Madara. One is arrogant and other one is not that much. Madara is a zombie that can regenerate with an unlimites amount of chakra, Sasuke is a human being with limits, I think he is smart enough to know Tsunade might break her Susano'O.


Madara Susano'o was higher level than Sasuke's, that's why it tanked the attack better. If Sasuke tried to tank that with his rib-cage he'd be dead. Also wasn't Tsunade's strongest attack, that would be her kicks. 

Sasuke is extremely arrogant and I have no clue how he'd know that Tsunade's blows can bust through Susano'o, to our knowledge, he has no knowledge on Tsunade's strength.



> Oh boy, not you too. So Madara could swap himself with a clone while being observed by everyone and after using half of his body is torn away like nothing. Are you serious? It requires a hand seal to produce a clone.


Well that's what Kishi wants us to believe, it's no different than any of the other Plot-Kai Kwarimi feats, like Animal Realm swapping with a log right in-front of J-man. And he would have been swapping with a clone regardless of when he used it, right in-front of the Gokage.

And his arms could have been reformed at that point or he could have created the clone before and just swapped with it after Tsunade's attack. It's 100% proven he was an Edo in that instance. We've seen what a wood clone looks like when broken apart and it looks like wood; here Madara looked like he does every time he's hit.



> Sasuke will just roast her and stab her skull


This is irrelevant to what we were discussing, now your just trolling, so good day to you sir.


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## Ghost (Nov 4, 2013)

Likes boss said:


> Beheading is a LARGE assumption.



Sasuke with same mind set beheaded Zetsu.


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## The World (Nov 4, 2013)

Tsunade would just catch his sword with her teeth


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## Legendary Itachi (Nov 4, 2013)

Then her teeth got paralyzed with the sword. 

What's the argument when Enton Shield stops all Tsunade's CQC?


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## The World (Nov 4, 2013)

Doesn't matter she already broke it 

Who the hell do you think she is!?


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## nmwn93 (Dec 14, 2013)

The World said:


> Doesn't matter she already broke it
> 
> Who the hell do you think she is!?


Tsunade owns this, this is her kind of battle n this particular situation, up close and personal. and since sasuke is already beat up by the time he gets to the office... it would probably go something like this it would either go mei spitting the acid at him like she did followed by chokouro hammering him thru the wall and instead of going to head him off Tsunade would head him off while mei seals up the wall so sasuke is enclosed. also Tsunade can summon a version of katsuyu to block the way behind her (the way mei did with her lava style jutsu) that being said the room would be sealed off again. I think sasuke would know of tsunade's strength, that being said he like madara wouldn't dare think that her punch as stronger than the raikage's and when she goes to punch he susanoos and GAME OVER. yes I think a Tsunade punch close range would smash straight through his susanoo at the time . and please stop the rederick of Tsunade only broke madara's susanoo with support from ei.oonoki NO. SHE BROKE THE SUSANOO IN TWO HITS. her first hit managed to crack it Yes he does.

her SECOND hit was on that same spot. breaking it. notice the side that oonoki and ei hit did not break at all 
Yes he does.

Tsunade hits the the susanoo ribcage and breaks through but only on her side
Yes he does.

that should also be a speed feat considering she was only a few seconds behind a lightened ei (just saying) 

now if sasuke use the enton shield umm... if Tsunade needs 2 hits to break madaras susanoo ribcage then just for arguments sake lets say she needs 2 punches to break sasukes ribcage (Not likely but i'll cut him some slack) if he shields him self in blck flames Tsunade is the only person that can eat the flames and then when she comes in for the second punch and breaks through with burning hands what happens if sasuke os then set on fire, he extinguishes  the flames thus releasing the jutsu. but Tsunade will just heal all damage and while he is furthered injured she ends the battle. her chakra is way more than his.!!!! close quarters vs Tsunade is not a win for any living shinobi. especially since sasuke is coming off of battling a guy who cracked his susanoo with a chop Tsunade would tear through his susanoo like a sun-hot knife through butter. imo.


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## Mercurial (Dec 14, 2013)

Like it or not, Sasuke dodges, blitzes and decapitate with Chidori sword.


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## nmwn93 (Dec 15, 2013)

you obviously did not see my comment. if Tsunade summons katsuyu  which she probably would to block the way behind her to block sasuke from leaving. in the way that mei dd with her lava. katsuyu would be facing sasuke and would be able to spit streams of acid at him to cover her master. and HE WOULD NOT BEHEAD HER YOU IDIOTS HE WANTS INFORMATION on what happened with itachi SO STARTING THE BATTLE WITH DECAPITATION WOULD BE RETARDED


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## LyricalMessiah (Dec 15, 2013)

Fighting Style wise, Sasuke is a very cautious fight and thoughtful warrior and although he is bloodlusted, I doubt he will deviate from that. I believe that this what make him so deadly. Look at his fight against Deidara, he spent most of the battle analyzing Deidara's bombs just to figure out their movement's pattern. He got Deidara to reveal his entire hand without even having to place himself in danger. What an amazing warrior. I believe that this will occur in this hypothetical battle. Sasuke will rely upon his bunshin and use them to get Tsunade to show her capabilities and her flaws. Finally, with all his information gather, he creates a strategy that will spell the end for Tsunade. 

On the otherhand, Tsunade is a very direct fighter with very little long range capabilities. Given the fact that she is bloodlusted, I doubt that she will immediately summon Katsuyu but will instead proceed to smash and bash. Setting herself up quite nicely for a amaterasu bunshin or a enton trap technique. In the end, I feel that Sasuke has a better chance of winning this fight simply because of his very cautious, deceptive nature and his ability to adapt and create advantages and the fact that he has genjutsu's which is a physical brawler's worst opponent. Tsunade has more than enough strength to bust through Sasuke's susano'o which I believe it to be weaker than Madara's Susano'o that was broken by Tsunade. Theoretically, this denotes that Tsunade can also break Sasuke's Susano'o. She possesses immense durability and still kept on fighting despite having had a gigantic sword through her gut making every effort count and ignoring the pain in her gut. She is a warrior through and through. Only problem I see that can stop her off her tracks is the amaterasu. If sasuke's keeps his distances and avoids hand to hand combat, he can use his amaterasu to inflict damage on Tsunade and allow the flames of Amaterasu to drastically reduce her stamina and health. This may stem arguments about whether Tsunade can dodge his Amaterasu and to be frank, there is no evidence suggesting that Tsunade has the requisite speed to dodge Sasuke's Amaterasu either from the manga, or from the author's saying. Actually, we have evidence to support the statement that Tsunade is slow. Raikage had claimed in a chapter I can't for the love of evidence post because I forgot which chapter it was, that what Tsunade lacks in speed, she makes up for strength, claiming that her strength far exceeds his when he was juxtaposing her stats to his. Giving this to Tsunade if Amaterasu is restricted. She can't dodge it and if she gets hit by the Amaterasu, she'd still proceed to attack sasuke although the only difference is that Sasuke will try to distance himself from her.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2013)

Mayweather said:


> Sasuke wins in Base. Mangekyo Sharingan is just rape.



Tsunade caves his skull in in base


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## Jagger (Dec 15, 2013)

Why do people assume Sasuke will just stand there doing nothing as if he was a retard? He didn't with Danzo and he wouldn't with an easily recognizable taijutsu user such as Tsunade.

Sure, Tsunade can keep fighting while being burned by Amaterasu, but for how long? Are her chakra reserves big enough to constantly heal herself while fighting a Susano'O user? She's no Hulk or Juggernaut to shrug off everything it's thrown at her. 

Genjutsu is another factor to be taken into account, maybe she can break it? But how will she take her to do that? Less that it would take Sasuke to tear her apart with an arrow or a slash from his Susano'O? Whether you like it or not, MS Sasuke is a terrible match-up for Tsunade as most of her abilities will be countered.

Edit: Crap, I forgot Turrin replied to me...too lazy for that.


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## Baroxio (Dec 15, 2013)

Neko White said:


> you obviously did not see my comment. if Tsunade summons katsuyu  which she probably would to block the way behind her to block sasuke from leaving. in the way that mei dd with her lava. katsuyu would be facing sasuke and would be able to spit streams of acid at him to cover her master. and HE WOULD NOT BEHEAD HER YOU IDIOTS HE WANTS INFORMATION on what happened with itachi SO STARTING THE BATTLE WITH DECAPITATION WOULD BE RETARDED


Tobi specifically told him that Tsunade didn't know jack about the Uchiha Massacre.



Ergo, Sasuke has no problems going for the kill.


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## nmwn93 (Dec 15, 2013)

Baroxio said:


> Tobi specifically told him that Tsunade didn't know jack about the Uchiha Massacre.
> 
> 
> 
> Ergo, Sasuke has no problems going for the kill.


ugh! he would still need to ask her on danzos location, about the other eldes etc.


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## Jagger (Dec 15, 2013)

Lel. Sasuke bisects her whole body and puts her under a genjutsu in her last moments of life. Kind of similar of what Obito did with Konan.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Dec 15, 2013)

Sorry OP, MS Sauce>>Tsunade.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2013)

Tsunade > Kage summit MS Sauce


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## Master Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2013)

The World said:


> Tsunade > Kage summit MS Sauce



Tsunade is not above any form of MS Sasuke nor would she win. Above Hebi Sasuke, yes. Even the Sasuke that fought Bee would win. You know, the guy that had no problems avoiding V1 cloaked Bee and even caught him in MS Genjutsu while he was speeding towards him.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2013)

Sauce gets his ass beaten


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## Master Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2013)

The World said:


> Sauce gets his ass beaten



You justify Tsunade winning because she punched a non-serious Mokuton clone of Madara using a Susano'o that took minimal damage from the punch? 

Good for you.


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## The World (Dec 15, 2013)

lol 

>took minimal damage

She destroyed it 

What do you think she's going to do to a Sauce who could only form the ribcage of Sus?


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## Master Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2013)

The World said:


> lol
> 
> >took minimal damage
> 
> She destroyed it



>destroyed it

I still count 25 clones.

It's still blatantly there with no visible damage after she coughed blood.


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## Lord Aizen (Dec 15, 2013)

Hebi sasuke can take tsunade mid diff, sasukes improved combat abilities and precog could potential allow him to one shot tsunade. If tsunade came at sasuke , sasuke would get his chidori ready, dodge tsunade's kick or punch and slice off her head right there


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## Lord Aizen (Dec 15, 2013)

The World said:


> Tsunade > Kage summit MS Sauce



Tsunade is not touching sasuke who has way better reflexes, speed and agility not to mention using MS


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## Jagger (Dec 15, 2013)

Tsunade did keep those Susano'O clones at bay, however, they didn't recieve significant damage from her punches. It's Jinton that completely eradicated them all.


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## Nikushimi (Dec 15, 2013)

Yeah, Sasuke hits Tsunade with Amaterasu and she burns to death.

Using Byakugou to mitigate the damage only prolongs her suffering and doesn't really change the end result, since Amaterasu lasts a lot longer.

Meanwhile, Sauce can just camp in Susano'o if he needs to, or simply run away and leave Tsunade stumbling around and taking blind swings while her eyes burn up and regenerate along with the rest of her body over and over and over. Not a pretty way to go, I must say.


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