# Asta (Black Clover) vs Fairy Tail verse



## Blade (Sep 19, 2017)

how far he can go?

discuss


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 19, 2017)

I am clueless about FT.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 19, 2017)

DarkSlayerZero said:


> I am clueless about FT.



Good.  It will preserve you from the pain and poison of pointless platitudes about "powers of pals".

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Iwandesu (Sep 20, 2017)

Fairy fail tops at island level and mhs iirc


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## Blαck (Sep 20, 2017)

What's asta's black meteorite top out at? Or that new move of his, forgot the name.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Sep 20, 2017)

DarkSlayerZero said:


> I am clueless about FT.


Clearly the Balefire from my thread is doing its job.


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## CrossTheHorizon (Sep 20, 2017)

BULL THRUST

And now they're all dead.


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

Reminds me that no one ever came to conclusion as to how we should accept FH Zerefs defeat in VS. Logically you can't beat him with a punch.


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## IdioticGamer (Sep 20, 2017)

I don't even know Asta well but I know he's already gonna stomp FT. It's like a common law of OBD :kappa


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## IdioticGamer (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Reminds me that no one ever came to conclusion as to how we should accept FH Zerefs defeat in VS. Logically you can't beat him with a punch.



Well great now I gotta double post.

But nah man, if you can weaponize your shittiniess and kill someone's any last chance to returning to a quality character I think it's a vital feat that can defeat anyone.


*Spoiler*: __ 





Legit though. Punching with your feelings doesn't solve everything. At least it was a bit better than Bleach ending at least.
Pretty sure that supermagicweapon what you call it is country level but htat's not important anyway.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Reminds me that no one ever came to conclusion as to how we should accept FH Zerefs defeat in VS. Logically you can't beat him with a punch.



Natsu's flames reached the temperature needed to effect time and space, and heat is the density of energy, and energy with enough mass can distort time and space.



IdioticGamer said:


> Well great now I gotta double post.
> 
> But nah man, if you can weaponize your shittiniess and kill someone's any last chance to returning to a quality character I think it's a vital feat that can defeat anyone.
> 
> ...



I don't think that is an issue with Power of Feelings being a legit power source in the FT verse, and it is not uncommon for verses powers to rely on emotions, like Asura's Wrath, Bleach, Hulk, etc.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Asta does not make it past Tartaros Arc


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

IdioticGamer said:


> I don't even know Asta well but I know he's already gonna stomp FT. It's like a common law of OBD :kappa


Asta's town level with MHS+ to Relativistic reactions and a magic-negation sword.

I dunno about clearing.


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu's flames reached the temperature needed to effect time and space, and heat is the density of energy, and energy with enough mass can distort time and space.

Reactions: Like 3 | Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> Asta's town level with MHS+ to Relativistic reactions and a magic-negation sword.
> 
> I dunno about clearing.


he gets to Tenrou island then i believe, unless he fights Makarov before then

Reactions: Like 1


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

IdioticGamer said:


> Well great now I gotta double post.
> 
> But nah man, if you can weaponize your shittiniess and kill someone's any last chance to returning to a quality character I think it's a vital feat that can defeat anyone.
> 
> ...


It was not better than Bleach's ending lmao. Any of the elites were more impressive than Aconologia and there was a sign of turning a new page of the SS especially with Kyoraku at Ukitake's grave thinking about Yamamoto.
The fact that Bleach was even rushed to hell shows how much more it had going for it when it comes to the ending since it didn't even mention half of the cast until the novels.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> It was not better than Bleach's ending lmao. Any of the elites were more impressive than Aconologia and there was a sign of turning a new page of the SS especially with Kyoraku at Ukitake's grave thinking about Yamamoto.
> The fact that Bleach was even rushed to hell shows how much more it had going for it when it comes to the ending since it didn't even mention half of the cast until the novels.



Well when it's rushed means there is a reason for it, either with lack of sales or moving on to something better.

Besides there was major inconsistencies with the battles later in the final bleach arc


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Besides there was major inconsistencies with the battles later in the final bleach arc


You shouldn't throw rocks from a glass house.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Well when it's rushed means there is a reason for it, either with lack of sales or moving on to something better.
> 
> Besides there was major inconsistencies with the battles later in the final bleach arc


The biggest complaint was always the pacing and long fights but atleast there was something...


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> The biggest complaint was always the pacing and long fights but atleast there was something...



Even something can be bad if written that way. But that is my thoughts, your opinions are your


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 20, 2017)

I thought the writing in general was what most people disliked about Bleach?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Jackalinthebox said:


> I thought the writing in general was what most people disliked about Bleach?



Guess what the problem was the pacing and writing in the end. Though Tite has a great concept but is not well in executing it. Like how Ichigo a newly made Soul Reaper managed to over power high level Soul Reapers and achieved Bankai in a short amount of time while Captains and lieutenants trained for centuries, perfecting their powers.


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## Blade (Sep 20, 2017)

DarkSlayerZero said:


> I am clueless about FT.



it's a shonen masterpiece of a series



































:universalskully

Reactions: Funny 1


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## LazyWaka (Sep 20, 2017)

iwandesu said:


> Fairy fail tops at island level and mhs iirc



Low sub relativistic actually, but close enough.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

DarkSlayerZero said:


> I am clueless about FT.


Your innocence is safe then.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu's flames reached the temperature needed to effect time and space, and heat is the density of energy, and energy with enough mass can distort time and space.



No.  

1. There is a threshold for how much damage Zeref could take before the Fairy Heart magic gave out.

2. It is just an existent property of Fire Dragon Slayer magic to "burn" other magic (it's happened before, and magic is made of particles).

Or it is just the usual "Power of First Magic/Love" tripe.


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Guess what the problem was the pacing and writing in the end. Though Tite has a great concept but is not well in executing it. Like how Ichigo a newly made Soul Reaper managed to over power high level Soul Reapers and achieved Bankai in a short amount of time while Captains and lieutenants trained for centuries, perfecting their powers.


Urahara got his bankai in 3 days also you know. It's not like he perfected it ever anyway, most soul reapers have more abilities in shikai alone than Ichigo has.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> No.
> 
> 1. There is a threshold for how much damage Zeref could take before the Fairy Heart magic gave out.
> 
> ...



1. It wasn't ever explained that it was limited considering that FH is limitless magic.

2. While FDS magic did burn some magic, that is not the significant property. It is the flames of emotion which becomes more intense the more emotional he gets.

P.S. Magic is part of nature and life. it is even alive to an extent. But that is besides the point


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Well when it's rushed means there is a reason for it, either with lack of sales or moving on to something better.
> 
> Besides there was major inconsistencies with the battles later in the final bleach arc


Is actually revealed due to an injury from Kubo.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Natsu's flames reached the temperature needed to effect time and space, and heat is the density of energy, and energy with enough mass can distort time and space.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that is an issue with Power of Feelings being a legit power source in the FT verse, and it is not uncommon for verses powers to rely on emotions, like Asura's Wrath, Bleach, Hulk, etc.


No. But those series have a legit explanation and believable feelings to increase one's power. FT get powers for having friends.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Urahara got his bankai in 3 days also you know. It's not like he perfected it ever anyway, most soul reapers have more abilities in shikai alone than Ichigo has.



I am aware of that, but he is not Ichigo, who did it recently and during a mission to save rukia, Urahara could have done it in a calm time


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I am aware of that, but he is not Ichigo, who did it recently and during a mission to save rukia, Urahara could have done it in a calm time


It was also stated and shown Ichigo's best attribute are his adaptability and improvement said by Urahara to be far better than his.


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Oh look, Bleach and it's "quality"and "problems" are shoe-horned into another thread that has nothing to do with it.
What the fuck is your problem people ? Fucking cancer man...Let that trainwreck die already.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

Is a Fairy Tail thread. You know Quality and comparison of series (far better) is gonna show up.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> No. But those series have a legit explanation and believable feelings to increase one's power. FT get powers for having friends.



While feelings does have an effect on the mage, It isn't the only deciding factor in the fight.

His flames was effecting time itself, that means he had to get so angry that the temperature reaches the point that it distorts space and time


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> While feelings does have an effect on the mage, It isn't the only deciding factor in the fight.
> 
> His flames was effecting time itself, that means he had to get so angry that the temperature reaches the point that it distorts space and time


Why is the planet still standing then?


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> Is a Fairy Tail thread. You know Quality and comparison of series (far better) is gonna show up.


Far better ? Omg.. you're dellusional. Look , a piece of shit is better than another piece of shit. What an accomplishment.


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Oh look, Bleach and it's "quality"and "problems" are shoe-horned into another thread that has nothing to do with it.
> What the fuck is your problem people ? Fucking cancer man...Let that trainwreck die already.


They're making a new mobile game for it after seeing the success of Brave Souls which is going to the final arc parts now, so it's not dying anytime soon.


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> They're making a new mobile game for it after seeing the success of Brave Souls which is going to the final arc parts now, so it's not dying anytime soon.


Yea , cause all anime fans want their series continued by mobile games.Naruto and DBZ get sequels and new mangas and Bleach gets 2 mobile games
Even Ft is gonna get an animated conclusion.
Fucking dellusional man


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Far better ? Omg.. you're dellusional. Look , a piece of shit is better than another piece of shit. What an accomplishment.


FT is SAO lv of piece of garbage. Bleach is far better even in his worst time.


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> FT is SAO lv of piece of garbage. Bleach is far better even in his worst time.


Just better, not far better and again that's not a thing to be proud about. I can count on one hand worse shounens i read than FT


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yea , cause all anime fans want their series continued by mobile games.Naruto and DBZ get sequels and new mangas and Bleach gets 2 mobile games
> Even Ft is gonna get an animated conclusion.
> Fucking dellusional man


Boruto has Bleach's director for now. Kudo said they are waiting for him to finish there. Also FT animated? Hopefully they do a real job.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Just better, not far better and again that's not a thing to be proud about. I can count on one hand worse shounens i read than FT


There are worse?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> Why is the planet still standing then?



Same question I ask when Yamamoto didn't burn down SS with temperatures equal to the sun.

It's a manga, there will always be plot points like that


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> There are worse?


Ehhh.. same shit-tier at least and only because FT was actually decen for a while at the begining. But yea, shit like Freezing(Manhwa, but whatever) and Strike the Blood i consider worse. There were also several series that got canned after like 50 chapters but i don't remember shit about them


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Yea , cause all anime fans want their series continued by mobile games.Naruto and DBZ get sequels and new mangas and Bleach gets 2 mobile games
> Even Ft is gonna get an animated conclusion.
> Fucking dellusional man


FT's anime looks like SHIT lmao no one wants to see that. Have you see videos of the second FT movie? Looks worse than Bleach's anime.


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 20, 2017)

While I'm not knowledgeable on FT at all, I did read the last like 55 chapters to see how it would end(did the same with bleach cept it was like the last 100) and it was a mess in every form.


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 20, 2017)

Keishin said:


> FT's anime looks like SHIT lmao no one wants to see that. Have you see videos of the second FT movie? Looks worse than Bleach's anime.


Well, obviously people want to see that enough that it's gonna be profitable, otherwise it woulnd't have been made. FT is still popular for some reason. Quality has nothing to do with it. Ft gets its animated ending and Bleach doesen't. That's all there is to it.This speaks a lot about how "alive" Bleach is as a series. Current Bleach  is basically an after-thought for SJ. Well you have Narita at least for damage control,so that's something.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Same question I ask when Yamamoto didn't burn down SS with temperatures equal to the sun.
> 
> It's a manga, there will always be plot points like that


SS is made of spiritual particles and Yamamoto was containing the power.what Nat's's excuse?



reyatsuguy said:


> Ehhh.. same shit-tier at least and only because FT was actually decen for a while at the begining. But yea, shit like Freezing(Manhwa, but whatever) and Strike the Blood i consider worse. There were also several series that got canned after like 50 chapters but i don't remember shit about them


I don't consider a manga less than 100 chapter a real story. Not enough to develop a character.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Same question I ask when Yamamoto didn't burn down SS with temperatures equal to the sun.
> 
> It's a manga, there will always be plot points like that



Takes time to heat up the entire atmosphere.

As of 2011, the amount of energy in the atmosphere was 5x10^21 Joules.

The atmosphere has a mass of about 5×10^18 kg, and the heat capacity is 1005 J/kg/K

So if you want to scorch the entire planet, Yamamoto is going to have to up that energy in the atmosphere by a few magnitudes. 



Divell said:


> I don't consider a manga less than 100 chapter a real story. Not enough to develop a character.



Must say a lot about your idea of quality, because many authors can develop characters in far less than that number of chapters.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 20, 2017)

I can think of multiple great manga that were under a hundred chapters. A good writer doesn't need dozens upon dozens of chapters to create a well written character or story 

Pluto & Mushishi come to mind. Both were under a hundred chapters long


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## Solar (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> I don't consider a manga less than 100 chapter a real story. Not enough to develop a character.



This is what happens when one consumes anime, manga, and badly written fiction.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> SS is made of spiritual particles and Yamamoto was containing the power.what Nat's's excuse?
> 
> 
> I don't consider a manga less than 100 chapter a real story. Not enough to develop a character.



He only contained the flames, not the heat which still is felt across ss. And what spirit particles are weaker than normal particles? That makes no sense


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Takes time to heat up the entire atmosphere.
> 
> As of 2011, the amount of energy in the atmosphere was 5x10^21 Joules.
> 
> ...



Then the same can be said for Natsu


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Then the same can be said for Natsu



Nope.  You have no idea how much BS Fairy Tail runs, and all because the universal cheat-code is "the power of Love".

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

Haruhi Suzumiya said:


> This is what happens when one consumes anime, manga, and badly written fiction.


I mean when is not enough time to develop a good amount of cast into actually believable likable characters. look at Berserk, AoT and HxH, you need to have a good amount of skill and capability to make a cast of good characters in just 50 chapters while introducing lore, powers, and antagonist capable of keeping the story interesting.



OMGMAN said:


> He only contained the flames, not the heat which still is felt across ss. And what spirit particles are weaker than normal particles? That makes no sense


is the other way around.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Takes time to heat up the entire atmosphere.
> 
> As of 2011, the amount of energy in the atmosphere was 5x10^21 Joules.
> 
> ...


you need to have a good amount of skill and capability to make a cast of good characters in just 50 chapters while introducing lore, powers, and antagonist capable of keeping the story interesting.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Nope.  You have no idea how much BS Fairy Tail runs, and all because the universal cheat-code is "the power of Love".



It is canon that power of Feelings effects magic and one magic is born from love.

And magic has some real world effects and scientific effects too. This would be no different


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> It is canon that power of Feelings effects magic and one magic is born from love.
> 
> And magic has real world effects and scientific effects too. This would be no different


except is not enough to affect infinite time and pace in seconds.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> except is not enough to affect infinite time and pace in seconds.



It can with enough heat which can distort time and space.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> It can with enough *heat which can distort time* and space.


Heat can't do that in the first place, much less an infinite amount.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> Heat can't do that in the first place, much less an infinite amount.



Energy like heat with enough mass can distort the fabric of the space time continuum, it's general relativity


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Energy like heat with enough mass can distort the fabric of the space time continuum, it's general relativistic


Heat doesn't have mass in the first place. What has mass is the flame, and it only occupies space, not distorts it to the point of affecting one's perception of it. And no you would need a huge amount of it to even affect it to the point of having more mass than the planet itself. Something it obviously doesn't. If you were saying that Natsu somehow was immune to Seref's magic, and he was able to affect his physical form then is believable. But he only beat him because of "Nakama Punch". That, my friend, is what Fairy Tail does.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> Heat doesn't have mass in the first place. What has mass is the flame, and it only occupies space, not distorts it to the point of affecting one's perception of it. And no you would need a huge amount of it to even affect it to the point of having more mass than the planet itself. Something it obviously doesn't. If you were saying that Natsu somehow was immune to Seref's magic, and he was able to affect his physical form then is believable. But he only beat him because of "Nakama Punch". That, my friend, is what Fairy Tail does.



Heat does have energy which still effects the spacetime fabric. Mass and energy are two of three things that can warp it. Besides his flames has a blunt effect to them

No, his flames increase in heat the more he gets angry, that is the nature of his magic. The only limit is the amount of magic power he has, not how much flames or heat he can produce which is dependent on his emotional state.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

I see you possess zip knowledge in physics and science so I'm stopping here and let others, with far more patience than me, work with you.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

It's relative physics, that's what it says

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> It can with enough heat which can distort time and space.




I'm Vegeta, you're Nappa.



OMGMAN said:


> Energy like heat with enough mass can distort the fabric of the space time continuum, it's general relativistic





OMGMAN said:


> Heat does have energy and stress which still effects the spacetime fabric. Mass and energy _are two of three things_ that can warp spacetime





Matter and Energy: A False Dichotomy

Mass and energy are not "things"! 

"Energy" and "mass" are *properties* _that all matter has_!  To "distort the fabric of space time" in a small, local area to such an extent for it to have a visible effect (superseding the gravity of the planet itself) would require either:

A. An astronomical amount of energy _within a certain amount of matter.
_
B. A massive amount of matter (approaching that of the Earth or Moon's mass) compressed within a very small space.

C. Hax that can directly warp or manipulate the fabric of space-time.

We don't generally apply the first to fictional calcs, because that can result in vastly inflated speeds for physical strikes.  In fact, it is only ever done when the theory of relativity is actually brought up (e.g. Infinite-Mass Punch).  Otherwise, many of the more powerful characters in fiction would all end up with relativistic striking speeds upward to 99.[insert number up to infinity]. 

What you are suggesting, on the other hand, is infeasible for a number of other reasons, chief among them being Mashima's terrible writing and "power of emotions" over-reliance in his story.

Reactions: Like 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I'm Vegeta, you're Nappa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Temperature is a measure of energy density, and an energy density of any type will contribute to the stress-energy tensor, a quantity that determines the spacetime distortion. So all things being equal, a clock in a region of higher temperature, higher energy density, will run a little more slowly compared to a clock that is in a lower temperature region, and a little more slowly still compared to the minimum energy density or absolute zero.


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## Alita (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> Asta's town level with MHS+ to Relativistic reactions and a magic-negation sword.
> 
> I dunno about clearing.



How is he town level and massively hypersonic+? I'm on the recent chapter of BC and don't see how he is that strong.


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## Keishin (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> you need to have a good amount of skill and capability to make a cast of good characters in just 50 chapters while introducing lore, powers, and antagonist capable of keeping the story interesting.


100 chapters is 10 volumes which is basically 10 books of text and visual storytelling.. Any capable author should be able to tell a story in that amount of time. And Togashi hasn't spent that much time on most of his best characters like Hisoka, Ging, Chrollo, Pariston, Meruem, just the arcs in which they are are long.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

> Temperature is a measure of energy density, and an energy density of any type will contribute to the stress-energy tensor, a quantity that determines the spacetime distortion.



I am not sure how much you actually understand of what you are saying, especially since you are trying to use it to argue for Fairy Tail, of all things.  

Temperature is a measurement of the kinetic energy of molecules in a substance, _*which is subject to change depending on the heat capacity of the element or compound in question.*_ 



OMGMAN said:


> So all things being equal, a clock in a region of higher temperature, higher energy density, will run a little more slowly compared to a clock that is in a lower temperature region, and a little more slowly still compared to the minimum energy density or absolute zero.



You probably don't even know that you get the same results from things just _being at different points from a source of gravity_.  A clock in a GPS satellite in space _will _end up running at least 38 microseconds faster per day than the same clock on Earth, and it all has to do with the GPS satellite's distance from the Earth resulting in a weaker gravitational pull (adjustments are needed to keep the two in sync).

Moreover, just m_oving at any speed_ will cause time to slow, but the effect is so minimal that an atomic clock is needed to measure it.

All of the above is time dilation.

You "talk" about it, but it is clear that you do not understand what it is you are talking about.

So let me make it clear for you: do you have any inkling, or even a _rough estimation, _of how much energy you are implying would be in Natsu's flames to "distort space and time" in the way you are suggesting it does?

Which, by the way, completely contradicts what is stated about the actual clash: Natsu wasn't "distorting space and time", but he was "burning the Time Magic", _as I indicated to be a possibility early on in this discussion._


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> How is he town level and massively hypersonic+? I'm on the recent chapter of BC and don't see how he is that strong.


He could somewhat react to Light's attacks which are lightspeed, and as for town level I think there's a calc he scales to. 

I dunno, I dropped Black Clover when the other kingdom invaded them.


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## Alita (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> He could somewhat react to Light's attacks which are lightspeed, and as for town level I think there's a calc he scales to.
> 
> I dunno, I dropped Black Clover when the other kingdom invaded them.


 How do we know Licht's light is real light speed? It's magic based light and it didn't behave entirely like real light. Even bending at certain points and whatnot.


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> How do we know Licht's light is real light speed? It's magic based light and it didn't behave entirely like real light. Even bending at certain points and whatnot.


We got statements explicitly saying "The enemy is moving at lightspeed" and the like, iirc.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I am not sure how much you actually understand of what you are saying, especially since you are trying to use it to argue for Fairy Tail, of all things.
> 
> Temperature is a measurement of the kinetic energy of molecules in a substance, _*which is subject to change depending on the heat capacity of the element or compound in question.*_
> 
> ...



It still does not take away from it's contributions to the distortion of spacetime.

No, it is time not time magic.

Besides Magic is part of nature and life

Besides like you said you can't see time so how would you know?


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## Solar (Sep 20, 2017)

I didn't know insulting things people liked here would get me so many positice ratings lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> I don't consider a manga less than 100 chapter a real story. Not enough to develop a character.


Bruh ive seen oneshots with better characters than Blech. Soul Eater was better in its first 100 chapters than the entirety of Bleach and it barely had over 110 chapters.

Look at Ao No Exorcist, One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100. All massively better


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## Blakk Jakk (Sep 20, 2017)

Haruhi Suzumiya said:


> I didn't know insulting things people liked here would get me so many positice ratings lol


I do it all the time Kappa


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

There was Tonathan100 and his "multiversal Superman".  There was Emperorofliberty and his obsession with 'infinites'.  There was Doom TM and his raging fury at my arguing against "infinite Universes" for the DC Multiverse Pre-Crisis (and subsequent accounts spamming my Conversation board).  Then came Comic fan 101 and his obsession over "World's Funnest" (while subsequently downplaying everything else).

One of these days, I'm going to have to leave the work of setting these guys straight to someone else.



OMGMAN said:


> No, it is time not time magic.
> 
> Besides like you said you can't see time so how would you know?



Referencing back to the manga, that's how.



> It still does not take away from it's contributions to the distortion of spacetime.



You still do not get it, I see.  

What distorts the fabric of space-time is _matter and its mass,_ *with mass being determined by the amount of energy an object possesses.  *

To borrow from here:


Two factors influence how much space-time is distorted by matter's mass-energy - the amount of mass, _and the density of mass._ 

Since we aren't dealing with "Density" at the moment, we just need to look at mass and mass-energy.

If you apply hard physics, even if Natsu's flames were at a temperature of 85,714,285,714,286 _degrees Celsius_, and assuming that his _magic-based_ flames have the same heat capacity as his fist (since his flames act like a solid at times), that much energy would only amount to 9 x 10 ^16 Joules...

Or to *one kilogram.* 

You could add in all of that energy to a person's bare fist, and increase the temperature of a person's fist to such extreme temperatures, you'd only increase its mass by one kilogram.

So tell me: if you believe that Natsu's flames are hot enough to "distort space-time" enough to destroy the Magic of someone who's able to manipulate space and time freely, _how hot were you thinking?_


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Bruh ive seen oneshots with better characters than Blech. Soul Eater was better in its first 100 chapters than the entirety of Bleach and it barely had over 110 chapters.



Bleach did have potential, but Kubo was the wrong author to bring out that potential, even if he was the one who came up with it.  He's like the George Lucas of Manga - an interesting idea, but he executes it poorly.  But even then, Lucas at least addressed everything _that needed to be addressed, _and didn't leave you hanging at the end.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> There was Tonathan100 and his "multiversal Superman".  There was Emperorofliberty and his obsession with 'infinites'.  There was Doom TM and his raging fury at my arguing against "infinite Universes" for the DC Multiverse Pre-Crisis (and subsequent accounts spamming my Conversation board).  Then came Comic fan 101 and his obsession over "World's Funnest" (while subsequently downplaying everything else).
> 
> One of these days, I'm going to have to leave the work of setting these guys straight to someone else.
> 
> ...



Manga which says just time and not magic.

Fire is plasma and plasma is a state of matter. Besides pressure and energy can effect it as well, not just mass.

because in the context of relativity, mass and energy are the same thing because of Einstein's formula of special relativity, E=mc2.

Mass or energy may be put in different forms but they have the very same impact on the spacetime curvature. But considering fictional world sense, it is vague for any scientific feats (which does not change what happens).

I am working on that part, but got some thoughts and sources where to look at.


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## Alita (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> We got statements explicitly saying "The enemy is moving at lightspeed" and the like, iirc.


You remember what chapter possibly? Tho just cause attacks/characters are stated to be light speed doesn't mean we always except them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> You remember what chapter possibly? Tho just cause attacks/characters are stated to be light speed doesn't mean we always except them.


Licht's light acts like light, blitzed tons of people, reflects off mirrors, and Yami stated that Liar "also moves at Lightspeed". So thats a double claim for Licht and Liar


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> You remember what chapter possibly? Tho just cause attacks/characters are stated to be light speed doesn't mean we always except them.



Here ya go

Chapter 51


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> You remember what chapter possibly? Tho just cause attacks/characters are stated to be light speed doesn't mean we always except them.



Same here, light Kizaru moving at light speed and people somehow react to him even with precog should not be different because time would technically be stopped

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Same here, light Kizaru moving at light speed and people somehow react to him even with precog should not be different because time would technically be stopped


Did you really just claim moving at light speed stops time


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## Alita (Sep 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Licht's light acts like light, blitzed tons of people, reflects off mirrors, and Yami stated that Liar "also moves at Lightspeed". So thats a double claim for Licht and Liar



There is still the issue that his light bends tho which normal light doesn't do I believe.


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## Divell (Sep 20, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Bruh ive seen oneshots with better characters than Blech. Soul Eater was better in its first 100 chapters than the entirety of Bleach and it barely had over 110 chapters.
> 
> Look at Ao No Exorcist, One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100. All massively better


I imagine that same one-shot featured 5 characters with massively lacking in background, characteristics, and relationship to others outside world where we don't find anything alike, right?. Also, haven't read the manga, but if it ended anywhere near the anime I just don't wanna even get involved. Geesh, and I thought Naruto's Rikudou power-up was bullshit.

OPM is over 100 chapters and lacks a lot on strong personalities where we constantly see the same we are tired of seeing in other serious manga and anime but throwing it for laugh, A no Exorsist has near 100 chapters are far longer than a weekly series and you know it.




Keishin said:


> 100 chapters is 10 volumes which is basically 10 books of text and visual storytelling.. Any capable author should be able to tell a story in that amount of time. And Togashi hasn't spent that much time on most of his best characters like Hisoka, Ging, Chrollo, Pariston, Meruem, just the arcs in which they are are long.


Yeah, a small story and most of the time rushed, look at Bleach, Ichigo's arguably best moment when rescued Rukia and his best character development (along with a lot of other characters and fights) was ending in Vol 19 chapter 167 with him defeating Byakuya. Over 100 chapters where we then would end without the best Villain introduction in forever, plot points regarding everything, and a lot more of shit. I agree that Pist Time Skip (especially the second to the end of the Final Arc) was... bullshit, but you can't tell me most of the character development and progress on the story with several other characters wasn't anywhere near good. While I do can only name you like 3 characters introduced in the Post TIme SKip worth a damn (Askin, Tsukishima, and Ginjo) and proceed to numerically give you several character development and progress in their life that was excellently written when it came to already knowledgeable characters.


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## DarkSlayerZero (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> There is still the issue that his light bends tho which normal light doesn't do I believe.



He was using a whip 

Chapter 48


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

Alita54 said:


> There is still the issue that his light bends tho which normal light doesn't do I believe.



Light doesn't bend on its own, but gravity can bend light, if an object's mass is sufficiently massive and dense enough to cause the appropriate curvature of space-time.  It is responsible for the phenomenon of a gravitational lens.

So in the case of that Light Magic, it is best to describe it as a Magic that simulates the properties of Light, but is not "true light".

Reactions: Like 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Well, I'm juggling him (I'm assuming OMGMAN is the COV you are referring to) and Comic Fan 101 at the same time, so wish me luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which magic is part of nature and life, no difference there.

Also space and time magic is the manipulation of space and time, Nothing simulating or artificial there

Don't forget I said mass and pressure, not just energy, don't assume that I am just using the later

And like you said as flame can act as solid, but regardless, it is not hax unless stated as a new spell that says otherwise.


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## shade0180 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Guess what the problem was the pacing and writing in the end. *Though Tite has a great concept but is not well in executing it*. Like how Ichigo a newly made Soul Reaper managed to over power high level Soul Reapers and achieved Bankai in a short amount of time while Captains and lieutenants trained for centuries, perfecting their powers.



HST is literally the Bolded... Oda has just a better way of executing phasing well until timeskip happened.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Don't forget I said mass and pressure, not just energy, don't assume that I am just using the later



You said "pressure and energy, not just mass".

And you still don't get that energy and mass are just properties of matter.



OMGMAN said:


> Also space and time magic is the manipulation of space and time, Nothing simulating or artificial there


 
You still don't get it.  What Natsu 'burned' was the *magic* of Fairy Heart, _not actual space and time.  _


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 20, 2017)

is this RH's new dupe?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You said "pressure and energy, not just mass".
> 
> And you still don't get that energy and mass are just properties of matter.
> 
> ...



Which shouldn't mean that it doesn't effect spacetime, whether it be real world or verse standards

How would he do that with space and time bending around him?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> is this RH's new dupe?



Don't know.  He's been around here since January, but it seems he's only going full RH now.


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## shade0180 (Sep 20, 2017)

that's how dupes work..

Some poster have dupes that exist from maybe 5 years ago and it would be active until they start to go ham..


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Face palm


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Well, I'm juggling him (I'm assuming OMGMAN is the COV you are referring to) and Comic Fan 101 at the same time, so wish me luck


Luck? You'll need a miracle


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## Juan (Sep 20, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> is this RH's new dupe?


Nah, he's his own person, I know him from somewhere else.

RH looks like a genius next to him.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> I imagine that same one-shot featured 5 characters with massively lacking in background, characteristics, and relationship to others outside world where we don't find anything alike, right?. Also, haven't read the manga, but if it ended anywhere near the anime I just don't wanna even get involved. Geesh, and I thought Naruto's Rikudou power-up was bullshit.
> 
> OPM is over 100 chapters and lacks a lot on strong personalities where we constantly see the same we are tired of seeing in other serious manga and anime but throwing it for laugh, A no Exorsist has near 100 chapters are far longer than a weekly series and you know it.
> 
> ...


>OPM
>Lacking in strong personality

man which fucking manga are you reading


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> RH looks like a genius next to him.



impossibru


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Face palm

When did this dissolve into name throwing?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Face palm
> 
> When did this dissolve into name throwing?



You brought this on yourself when you started trying to argue that flames were enough to 'distort space-time' to the extent that it can beat the ability of someone who can actually manipulate space-time.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

Jjcb said:


> Luck? You'll need a miracle



I've dealt with both Tonathan100 and Emperorofliberty at the same time in the past.  I have the experience.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You brought this on yourself when you started trying to argue that flames were enough to 'distort space-time' to the extent that it can beat the ability of someone who can actually manipulate space-time.



Remember Barragan?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Remember Barragan?



The guy whose power _revolves around 'aging' and time?_

Not a good comparison at all.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The guy whose power _revolves around 'aging' and time?_
> 
> Not a good comparison at all.



Not the point, it's all about finding a way around their powers.

And Natsu basically fought fire with fire with that


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## NW (Sep 20, 2017)

Divell said:


> I imagine that same one-shot featured 5 characters with massively lacking in background, characteristics, and relationship to others outside world where we don't find anything alike, right?. Also, haven't read the manga, but if it ended anywhere near the anime I just don't wanna even get involved. Geesh, and I thought Naruto's Rikudou power-up was bullshit.
> 
> OPM is over 100 chapters and lacks a lot on strong personalities where we constantly see the same we are tired of seeing in other serious manga and anime but throwing it for laugh, A no Exorsist has near 100 chapters are far longer than a weekly series and you know it.
> 
> ...


Is 100 chapters just a general range or do you legit mean a 99 chapter manga would be less developed than a 100 chapter one

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 20, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Not the point, it's all about finding a way around their powers.
> 
> And Natsu basically fought fire with fire with that


 
You really don't get why I said it was not a good comparison.  

Barragan only died in the end _because his own power got turned against him.  _That didn't happen when Natsu one-shot Zeref out of his Fairy Heart form by burning away the magic itself.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 20, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You really don't get why I said it was not a good comparison.
> 
> Barragan only died in the end _because his own power got turned against him.  _That didn't happen when Natsu one-shot Zeref out of his Fairy Heart form by burning away the magic itself.



Again, not the point and wrong assumption Only because his protection was bypassed, like how Natsu bypassed the spacetime that proctects Zeref with his intense heat. If his flames were not hot enough then he couldn't burn his magic


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Again, not the point and wrong assumption Only because his protection was bypassed, like how Natsu bypassed the spacetime that proctects Zeref with his intense heat. If his flames were not hot enough then he couldn't burn his magic



Well, I prepared this, might as well use it:



No amount of flames, no matter how hot, would ever be able to distort space-time in the way you are trying to claim it would.  

It's complete nonsense, what you are suggesting, because that is not how the curving of space-time works.  _Especially_ since one of the direct effects of a significant curving of space-time _is the gravity caused by the mass-energy of the object in question.
_
Not to mention the fact that you are making up the so-called "space-time protection", since Natsu could still hit Fairy Heart Zeref with *regular punches.  *What was burned away was the _Space-Time Magic _of Fairy Heart, not actual space-time.


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## Juan (Sep 21, 2017)

DarkTorrent said:


> impossibru


I wish it was 

I've seen this dude argue against Beerus beating Goku, Igneel beating Garp/Dragon and Ban not being immortal


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## Juan (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I've dealt with both Tonathan100 and Emperorofliberty at the same time in the past.  I have the experience.


I come from G+, Tonathan is a damn fly in a pool of shit there. 

Believe me, COV (OMG) is unfixable

Reactions: Funny 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Well, I prepared this, might as well use it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well it happened, even physicists say that heat (energy) can distort the fabric of space time.

They were not all regular punches, you are the one making things up now, there was flame punches, you say he burned away the FH, stop jumping around with your assumptions. Natsu had no way of hurting Zeref while his SpaceTime powers were in effect, he had to bypass with a way to distort the space time. Space time is not artificial or magical, it is a real, natural thing, just like magic.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

> There was not regular punches, you are the one making things up now, there was flame punches, you say he burned away the FH, stop jumping around with your assumptions. Natsu had no way of hurting Zeref while his SpaceTime powers were in effect, he had to bypass with a way to distort the space time. Space time is not artificial or magical, it is a real, natural thing, just like magic.




*Spoiler*: __ 








I see no flames in this punch.  And you are also trying to over-generalize a punch _fueled by the magic of the entire Guild being shared with Natsu _by comparing one of Natsu's regular fire punches to it.  



OMGMAN said:


> Well it happened, even physicists say that heat (energy) can distort the fabric of space time.



Let me spell something out:

_ALL MATTER_, no matter how small an amount, creates curvature in the fabric of space-time; energy is _nothing more _than a property which matter possesses.  

No one is going to believe your very poor attempt at trying to claim that "heat" is some kind of miracle power that can "bypass space-time protection", especially since you have been doing nothing but fabricating a lie about what happened, just to try to make Fairy Tail seem 'more impressive'.


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## Jikaishin (Sep 21, 2017)

Hmm, I don't understand

Catalyst, are you saying he burn through Infinite Magic? pr the spell Fairy Heart? because moment before he attacked with his DF and Zeref just time reversed it, so why a base Natsu can do it while his DF can't?

Also sorry to tell you but you are against the manga itself

It's directly said, his magic burned time ...

My Head hurt, I will excuse myself now


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 21, 2017)

Asta can't clear the Spriggan, Bleach was cut 20 chapters early and FT is worst mango.

Is that it?


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## Blαck (Sep 21, 2017)

lol 4th dimension reiatsu said:


> Asta can't clear the Spriggan, Bleach was cut 20 chapters early and FT is worst mango.
> 
> Is that it?


Pretty much, at least until he cracks city or island level.


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## Keishin (Sep 21, 2017)

DarkSlayerZero said:


> He was using a whip
> 
> Chapter 48


Sting and Future rogue also have light speed statements like this.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> >OPM
> >Lacking in strong personality
> 
> man which fucking manga are you reading


The same as you. And OPM's only believable character is Saitama. Which is hilarious instead of serious.



NW said:


> Is 100 chapters just a general range or do you legit mean a 99 chapter manga would be less developed than a 100 chapter one


No, of course monthly series with over 40 pages is enough to create a story and develop a world. But weekly series that besides the first 5 chapter, only get 20 pages at most is not enough to create a real world and develop a cast into good characters.


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## LazyWaka (Sep 21, 2017)

Keishin said:


> Sting and Future rogue also have light speed statements like this.



they do?


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> they do?


They don't.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Go one page before and then one page after.

That is the point since matter and energy are the same thing according to general relativity.

There is no lie since it happened already, the biggest lie is claiming that power of feelings is some reality warping, causality manipulating power which is not.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> they do?


 
I believe it is not them but for Rogue with his ability to travel through shadows, which say can also travel at speed of light since it obscures light


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I believe it is not them but for Rogue with his ability to travel through shadows, which say can also travel at speed of light since it obscures light




How is obscuring light equate to having the stat equaling to speed of light? I mean my roof does the same shit and it is immobile as far as I can tell. or maybe it is moving at the speed of light when I sleep.

 Shit happens when people are sleeping anyway.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

The shadow appears because you're blocking the light from the Sun to hit the ground. Therefore you can calculate the time it takes to appear dividing the distance from your body to the ground by the speed of light (300,000 km/s). This also means that the shadow of your legs appears faster than the shadow of your head, since it's nearer to the ground.


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> he shadow appears because you're blocking the light from the Sun to hit the ground.



pretty sure we are talking about magical shadow that is solid enough that it can obscure light not some natural shadow that appears when an object blocks light.

see the difference there??


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## Keishin (Sep 21, 2017)

LazyWaka said:


> they do?


Yes, "Sting and rogue blah blah, now I have the properties of both light and darkness" and then he blitzes Natsu as a flash of light.


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

can you provide the chapter number for that?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> pretty sure we are talking about magical shadow that is solid enough that it can obscure light not some natural shadow that appears when an object blocks light.
> 
> see the difference there??



Magic is part of nature and life in Fairy Tail, it is every bit as natural as breathing. Rogue's shadows are part of natural shadows too since they are created from natural light being obscured by natural objects. Like Gajeel's body or even his own


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

magic is part of their daily life true.. but it being part of their daily life and it being a natural part of shit when it isn't is another matter entirely.

Lets put it this way.

a shadow acting as a shadow is a natural shit even in fairy tail, a shadow will function as a shadow without any outside forces.. we agree with this. and Fairy tail does have this still even with magic included in their daily life.

a shadow acting nothing like shadow is not natural even in fairy tail even if magic is a natural shit in their daily life because that shit is not a natural shadow.

Now you telling me Rogue shadow being natural is bullshit because we all know it isn't.

the fairy tail verse know it isn't and nothing suggest that it is. even if magic is naturally part of their eco system.

A magic not being utilize/manufactured by human or animal or whatever sentient being they have is natural, hands down this shit is unquestionably true.

But the moment they are manufacturing it to do shit that it isn't naturally suppose to do then that shit is not natural...

and a shadow moving beyond what is suppose to naturally do with the use of magic is obviously not natural.

got it that shadow is not natural end of story.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Magic is formed when the spirit and nature merge together to form magic, this was from chapter 2, and Makarov stated again at the end of the Hades fight that magic is alive.

Ethernanos that allows for magic resides in all living beings, atmosphere and the earth itself, even in other dimensions.


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Magic is formed when the spirit and nature merge together to form magic, this was from chapter 2, and Makarov stated again at the end of the Hades fight that magic is alive.



 and that still doesn't make the shit that happens after using it as something as natural.

I'll make an example

Water is Natural... It exist in almost every living thing, and water containing a lot of shit and merging to create something tasteful is a natural occurrence.

But Would you say a soup is Natural or a Manufactured product.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> and that still doesn't make the shit that happens after using it as something as natural.
> 
> I'll make an example
> 
> ...



Let me ask you, do you think celestial spirits are a manufactured product or natural?


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## Juan (Sep 21, 2017)

I told ya 

I hoped I was wrong tho.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

For the shadow part, that would make all other shadow powers not natural if that is the case


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Let me ask you, do you think celestial spirits are a manufactured product or natural?



That's not related to what we are talking about.

nice deflection. Celestial spirit have their own form.

- example -

lets start with water.

You have a steady flow of water - it is natural.

That water is a river that is flowing - it is Natural

You have Aquarius - enter the water in anyway she wants - the water is still natural.

You have Aquarius turning that steady water into an ocean. - You still think that shit is natural?  there's your answer.

 See how this works.. There's a separation between something that is Natural even if there is magic in it, and the moment that someone introduce foreign shit in it that would make it do shit that it isn't suppose to do even if there is no magic in it.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

shade0180 said:


> That's not related to what we are talking about.
> 
> nice deflection. Celestial spirit have their own form.
> 
> ...



It is definitely related to what we are talking about since Celestial spirits are magic and they are alive, just like magic is alive in general and they even tend to select their user.

Aquarius is natural because she is magical in essence and nature, just like the magic she uses.

Spirits can also die from depleting their own magic power if in the human world.


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

........ I think you miss the target by a whole other state...

Did you even read the whole shit I typed?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

I did, did you even read mine?


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## shade0180 (Sep 21, 2017)

how did you miss the point?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

How didn't I miss it, that's the question


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## John Wayne (Sep 21, 2017)

Save yourself Shade before it's too late.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Shit. You motherfuckers still on this shit?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Catalyst, are you saying he burn through Infinite Magic? pr the spell Fairy Heart? because moment before he attacked with his DF and Zeref just time reversed it, so why a base Natsu can do it while his DF can't?



First, it wasn't "base Natsu"; Natsu was super-amped by an up-to-that-point-never-mentioned (i.e. asspull) power-up he somehow got from activating a Magic in the Fairy Tail mark, that gave him Magic from all the other Fairy Tail Mages.

Second, the concept of "infinite" is overrated.  All it really means is that a system is being added to continuously.  Once you stop adding to a system, the system becomes "finite".  So he burned the spell "Fairy Heart", which was "adding to the system".


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## Jikaishin (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> First, it wasn't "base Natsu"; Natsu was super-amped by an up-to-that-point-never-mentioned (i.e. asspull) power-up he somehow got from activating a Magic in the Fairy Tail mark, *that gave him Magic from all the other Fairy Tail Mages.*
> 
> Second, the concept of "infinite" is overrated.  All it really means is that a system is being added to continuously.  Once you stop adding to a system, the system becomes "finite".  So he burned the spell "Fairy Heart", which was "adding to the system".



Where is this stated?

I didn't know that Infinity could be cut like that
The first time you were added infinity in yourself, you can divide all or take all you want, that's still infinity or my math lesson were wrong?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Go one page before and then one page after.
> 
> That is the point since matter and energy are the same thing according to general relativity.
> 
> There is no lie since it happened already, the biggest lie is claiming that power of feelings is some reality warping, causality manipulating power which is not.



It is bad writing that facilitates ass-pull feats in the context of Fairy Tail.  I don't recall arguing even once that it causes 'reality warping' or 'causality manipulation', _because I'm not that stupid.
_
I was very specific about what I said: it burned the Time Magic of Fairy Heart.  That's it.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Where is this stated?
> 
> I didn't know that Infinity could be cut like that
> The first time you were added infinity in yourself, you can divide all or take all you want, that's still infinity or my math lesson were wrong?


There is no infinite. Is a concept created to identify something with no known end.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> It is bad writing that facilitates ass-pull feats in the context of Fairy Tail.  I don't recall arguing even once that it causes 'reality warping' or 'causality manipulation', _because I'm not that stupid.
> _
> I was very specific about what I said: it burned the Time Magic of Fairy Heart.  That's it.



I don't see Andy bad writing here, this clearly makes sense, I don't know why you can't, because there was no known ass-pulls if I recall correctly, name a few and I will see what they are.

There is no evidence that it burned time magic because it only said time and his magic just manipulates natural time and space


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Where is this stated?
> 
> I didn't know that Infinity could be cut like that
> The first time you were added infinity in yourself, you can divide all or take all you want, that's still infinity or my math lesson were wrong?



Don't think to hard on it, and ignore him


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## Mabel Gleeful (Sep 21, 2017)

Natsu can eat Heralds for breakfast. He can even give Galactus himself a run for his money with his space bending flames.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Natsu can eat Heralds for breakfast. He can even give Galactus himself a run for his money with his space bending flames.



Galactus blows Natsu away just by blinking


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> Where is this stated?



Rather self-explanatory, since we see the Guild mark light up right before Natsu's final punch at Zeref (which I am assuming is what you are asking):


*Spoiler*: __ 











> I didn't know that Infinity could be cut like that
> The first time you were added infinity in yourself, you can divide all or take all you want, that's still infinity or my math lesson were wrong?



Infinity is an abstract concept of something "without any bound"; the only way for that to be reasonably possible is if it is continuously being added to.  Once you stop adding to the system, it becomes "bound" to a set number of things that presently exist within the system.

In the case of Zeref, the Fairy Heart magic is the 'source' that continually creates magical power.  It produces "infinite magic", but Fairy Heart itself isn't 'infinite', and is able to be destroyed.


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## Jikaishin (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Rather self-explanatory, since we see the Guild mark light up right before Natsu's final punch at Zeref (which I am assuming is what you are asking):
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



I know what infinity is, what I ask is Fairy Heart was already activated, it's not Hades' Demon's Heart, it's just a spell and that can't be destroyed

Also, you still doesn't explain why he was able to time reverse the first time but not the second time, you would think that complete body desintegration would be more effective that being thrown


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> I know what infinity is, what I ask is Fairy Heart was already activated, it's not Hades' Demon's Heart, it's just a spell and that can't be destroyed
> 
> Also, you still doesn't explain why he was able to time reverse the first time but not the second time, you would think that complete body desintegration would be more effective that being thrown



Actually it can, it just produces infinite magic power, doesn't give you infinite magic power. 

And Natsu in the past has proven to burn away magic.

He wasn't able to the second time is because of his heat rising to ludicrous levels to distort space and time.


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## FrozenFeathers (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> His flames was effecting time itself, that means he had to get so angry that the temperature reaches the point that it distorts space and time





OMGMAN said:


> Energy like heat with enough mass can distort the fabric of the space time continuum, it's general relativity


*Link Removed*


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## Jikaishin (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Actually it can, it just produces infinite magic power, doesn't give you infinite magic power.
> 
> And Natsu in the past has proven to burn away magic.
> 
> *He wasn't able to the second time is because of his heat rising to ludicrous levels to distort space and time.*



You know that will not make sense, no matter how many time you say it


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## Blade (Sep 21, 2017)

you ningens

9 pages

really now?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

FrozenFeathers said:


> *Link Removed*



Stress is also a factor which is stated in general relativity.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> I know what infinity is, what I ask is Fairy Heart was already activated, it's not Hades' Demon's Heart, it's just a spell and that can't be destroyed



Fairy Heart was 'active' by default; it was the reason for Zeref's shiny form.

But as a spell, it can be (and was) destroyed, just as it could be taken from Mavis by Zeref, in the first place.



Jikaishin said:


> Also, you still doesn't explain why he was able to time reverse the first time but not the second time, you would think that complete body desintegration would be more effective that being thrown



Since the Fairy Heart magic was being burned away, that is more than enough reason for it not to be able to work the second time around.  If you lose the magic, you lose the ability to manipulate time.



OMGMAN said:


> Actually it can, it just produces infinite magic power, doesn't give you infinite magic power.
> 
> And Natsu in the past has proven to burn away magic.
> 
> He wasn't able to the second time is because of his heat rising to ludicrous levels to distort space and time.



It is amazing that you can acknowledge that Natsu has burned away Magic in the past, but at the same time try to claim that what happened with Zeref was some "incredible exception", one driven by a painfully lacking understanding of how matter causes curvature in space-time.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> You know that will not make sense, no matter how many time you say it



I mean look up stress-energy tensor or "Fabric of the Cosmos" by Brian Greene



Catalyst75 said:


> Fairy Heart was 'active' by default; it was the reason for Zeref's shiny form.
> 
> But as a spell, it can be (and was) destroyed, just as it could be taken from Mavis by Zeref, in the first place.
> 
> ...



Plasma is matter so it still qualifies. It is not that hard to understand.

Plus his magic did not disappear until the final clash. His still had space time manipulation


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> You know that will not make sense, no matter how many time you say it



And we both know he will never get why people find his suggestion so ridiculous.  

The amount of energy in one spot required to visibly cause curvature in space-time on a macroscopic scale would be astronomical, especially relative to the curvature of space-time already caused _by the planet one is standing on_.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Mabel Gleeful said:


> Bleach


Thank you. You just agree that Bleach has more memorable characters than One Punch Man.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Still no reason how Natsu could bypass his space time manipulation powers other than that.

If it is astronomical then it is still applicable either way

And Yamamoto would have burned the entire ss with sun temperature as well.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2017)

Divell said:


> Thank you. You just agree that Bleach has more memorable characters than One Punch Man.



Having more memorable characters than a parody series that makes every character a cliche isn't much to brag about.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Adamant soul said:


> Having more memorable characters than a parody series that makes every character a cliche isn't much to brag about.


Is still something.


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## Adamant soul (Sep 21, 2017)

Divell said:


> Is still something.



It's really not.


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## Jikaishin (Sep 21, 2017)

I will stand by what I believe happened to White Zeref

It was Bullshit and typical Mashima bad writing

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> By all the logic you are using, I could beat Zeref by throwing a _bowling ball at him_ because - GASP - a bowling ball's mass causes curvature in space-time.
> 
> I already laid out how Natsu beat Zeref - _he burned away the Fairy Heart magic.  _He didn't "distort space-time", which I suspect you are only going for because you want to give Natsu an absurd fire temperature.
> 
> ...


You could just spit on him. That still has mass.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> By all the logic you are using, I could beat Zeref by throwing a _bowling ball at him_ because - GASP - a bowling ball's mass causes curvature in space-time.
> 
> I already laid out how Natsu beat Zeref - _he burned away the Fairy Heart magic.  _He didn't "distort space-time", which I suspect you are only going for because you want to give Natsu an absurd fire temperature.
> 
> ...



You forget, you are not in FT verse for the laws of physics to apply such a thing.

He can't because he would just reverse time and space to reform again.

No, because such a temperature is possible, it is logical.

I don't care if Kurohisogi or Gran Rey Cero does distort space, if they do they do, so does Natsu's flames even you said so.

It does when there it effects the planet/realm, guess what they are both mangas and are not considered with the full physics as long as they stated it.

There is, husband flames are stated to effect time itself, Nothing about his magic.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Jikaishin said:


> I will stand by what I believe happened to White Zeref
> 
> It was Bullshit and typical Mashima bad writing


That explains all of FT


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> You forget, you are not in FT verse for the laws of physics to apply such a thing.
> 
> He can't because he would just reverse time and space to reform again.
> 
> No, because such a temperature is possible, it is logical.



You don't even have an inkling about what kind of temperature that would require (temperature is based on the heat capacity of an object, meaning actual temperature differs between objects), so you can't even say whether it would be logical.



> I don't care if Kurohisogi or Gran Rey Cero does distort space, if they do they do, so does Natsu's flames even you said so.



I did not say that in regards to Natsu's flame.

As for Kurohitsugi and Gran Rey Cero, there is no "if they do", _because they do it in their respective scenes.
_
Gran Rey Cero:
*Spoiler*: __ 








Kurohitsugi:

Chapter 418 statement:


Chapter 622 translation: Aizen: The gravity of my Kurohitsugi has already created a crack in the canopy. // And it is quite the high-density spiritual structure. // A small impact from my reiatsu... // ...will be enough to cause it to collapse upon itself.

That is a far cry from you trying to fan-fic Natsu's flames into "distorting space and time".



> It does when there it effects the planet/realm, guess what they are both mangas and are not considered with the full physics as long as they stated it.



Except when you want your fan-fiction interpretation of things to be real, and try to force that perception onto others.



> There is, _*husband *_flames are stated to effect time itself, Nothing about his magic.



_*



			husband
		
Click to expand...

*_


> flames



_*



			husband
		
Click to expand...

*_
Are you calling Natsu _your "husband"? _

Reactions: Like 2


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You don't even have an inkling about what kind of temperature that would require (temperature is based on the heat capacity of an object, meaning actual temperature differs between objects), so you can't even say whether it would be logical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fuckin typo.

You said it your self that an astronomical about of heat can distort spacetime. Whether I can find it or not is still possible and likely

Natsu's heat:
fakeclaim one's way out of a Guilty result from a Cop

There is no mention of time magic or space magic, just that  time is being set ablaze.

He only burned the FH magic.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Sep 21, 2017)

he certainly wanks natsu enough


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

I don't wank, I simply use evidence

Reactions: Funny 2 | Creative 1 | Optimistic 2


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I don't wank, I simply use evidence


Evidence? Where? Serious I'm up for Universe lv Natsu.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Planet lv Kurohitsugi confirmed.
> 
> But in all seriousness, at least those two have actual evidence of affecting space-time to back it up (Gran Rey Cero warps space due to its intensity; Kurohitsugi is powerful enough to generate a gravitational field)


Don't temp me.


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## Kingdom Come (Sep 21, 2017)

Someone get Rax in this thread


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 21, 2017)

Divell said:


> Evidence? Where? Serious I'm up for Universe lv Natsu.



Now you are wanking, and I use general relativity.


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## Divell (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Now you are wanking, and I use general relativity.


No, no you don't. Do you even know the difference between expeculating and theorizing a actual science in a world that rules bend to give the main characters?

Is called wasting our time.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 21, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I use general relativity.





OMGMAN said:


> I don't wank, I simply use evidence



No, you are definitely wanking, and you definitely have no actual understanding of how general relativity functions, for the simple fact you are trying to claim Natsu's flames somehow burn hot enough to "distort space-time" to any significant amount.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> No, you are definitely wanking, and you definitely have no actual understanding of how general relativity functions, for the simple fact you are trying to claim Natsu's flames somehow burn hot enough to "distort space-time" to any significant amount.



You even said that even an astronomical amount is enough to do so, so don't I wank when even you understand as much from my point.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> No, no you don't. Do you even know the difference between expeculating and theorizing a actual science in a world that rules bend to give the main characters?
> 
> Is called wasting our time.



Much like Bleach?


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> You even said that even an astronomical amount is enough to do so, so don't I wank when even you understand as much from my point.



By astronomical, I mean unfeasible, ludicrously high, an any other descriptions that spell out "impossible" within the Fairy Tail series.

I say you wank, _because I actually know what numbers, and how much mass-energy is actually needed for what you are trying to imply._ 

So tell me, if you are not "wanking": _how hot do you think Natsu's flames were to "distort space-time" to "bypass Zeref's protection"?
_


OMGMAN said:


> Much like Bleach?



Even at its worst, Bleach was always far above Fairy Tail.


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## Blαck (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Even at its worst, Bleach was always far above Fairy Tail.


Tbf it's hard to argue which final villain got hit harder with the buullshit stick.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> By astronomical, I mean unfeasible, ludicrously high, an any other descriptions that spell out "impossible" within the Fairy Tail series.
> 
> I say you wank, _because I actually know what numbers, and how much mass-energy is actually needed for what you are trying to imply._
> 
> ...



Ludicrously high can still be taken into account regardless as it can distort SpaceTime.

Then tell me, what numbers is it for the heat needed as you claim.

You tell me since you say you have the answers.

Still prefer Fairy Tail over Bleach because of how ridiculous Ichigo's power ups can be.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

Blαck said:


> Tbf it's hard to argue which final villain got hit harder with the buullshit stick.



The one that was trashing everyone at full power, but then got taken out by one friendship-fueled punch after they ripped off the Broly movie.
-----------------------------------------------
With Yhwach, there was at least fore-shadowing to the nature of his demise twice over.

Why was Ryuuken shown in a flashback dissecting his wife's body?  To extract the Still Silver, a by-product of Yhwach's Auswahlen, and use it to turn Yhwach's own power against him.

What was the nature of the 'dream' that Yhwach had?  Three-fold: it showed that Yhwach would die when Zangetsu returned to its original form, that he would be in a de-powered state when it happened (not fully shrouded in the Soul King's power), and that Haschwalth deliberately hid that future to ensure Yhwach would not 'see it' in time.


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## Blαck (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> The one that was trashing everyone at full power, but then got taken out by one friendship-fueled punch after they ripped off the Broly movie.
> -----------------------------------------------
> *With Yhwach, there was at least fore-shadowing to the nature of his demise twice over.*
> 
> ...



Wait, this stuff happened? Well damn, I must've skimmed the hell outta those last few chapters


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Ludicrously high can still be taken into account regardless as it can distort SpaceTime.
> 
> Then tell me, what numbers is it for the heat needed as you claim.
> 
> ...



I take this means you _don't _have an answer, and are trying to deflect the question over to me. 

I have no obligation to answer you, since you are the one who is pushing for this in the first place, _which means you should be the one to provide the evidence for your case.
_


Blαck said:


> Wait, this stuff happened? Well damn, I must've skimmed the hell outta those last few chapters



All that stuff happened.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> I take this means you _don't _have an answer, and are trying to deflect the question over to me.
> 
> I have no obligation to answer you, since you are the one who is pushing for this in the first place, _which means you should be the one to provide the evidence for your case._



That means you don't have the answer too, very well, still a ludicrously high temperature it is by your words.

I am taking your answer as you are withholding the number value because you do not want an upgrade, it was just a simple question.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> That means you don't have the answer too, very well, still a ludicrously high temperature it is by your words.
> 
> I am taking your answer as you are withholding the number value because you do not want an upgrade, it was just a simple question.



So pretentiously arrogant, just like someone else who has been causing trouble. 

I do have an estimate of the numbers.  I am merely not inclined to share it, because I know with certainty that the number in question would be a definite outlier (no upgrades or downgrades have ever been given based on outliers), and because I know you never had enough understanding of relativity to realistically apply it in the first place.

In all honesty, I am certain you just want someone to "give you" the numbers, because you lack the ability to figure them out yourself.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> So pretentiously arrogant, just like someone else who has been causing trouble.
> 
> I do have an estimate of the numbers.  I am merely not inclined to share it, because I know with certainty that the number in question would be a definite outlier (no upgrades or downgrades have ever been given based on outliers), and because I know you never had enough understanding of relativity to realistically apply it in the first place.
> 
> In all honesty, I am certain you just want someone to "give you" the numbers, because you lack the ability to figure them out yourself.



Arrogant? I would prefer to be called humble, since you have seen my point and even have a number value alread. So thank you for that.

I understand relativity enough to know energy and matter can distort SpaceTime. Like how Natsu's Flames reached a heat needed to distort spacetime to burn FH.

I tried everywhere but no one would help me, you are the one being selfish at this moment because of your withholding of such information.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Arrogant? I would prefer to be called humble, since you have seen my point and even have a number value alread. So thank you for that.



You're passive-aggressively arrogant.

You have no point, because I see how ludicrous what you're pushing for is, yet you try to convince yourself that you "have a point".



OMGMAN said:


> I understand relativity enough to know energy and matter can distort SpaceTime. Like how Natsu's Flames reached a heat needed to distort spacetime to burn FH.



Yet you have no comprehension of the exact scales required to cause curvature in space-time to a noticeable or significant extent, especially when you're already on a planet that causes space-time to curve.

_And you're still treating matter and energy as two different things, _*WHEN ENERGY IS JUST A PROPERTY OF MATTER!* 



OMGMAN said:


> I tried everywhere but no one would help me, you are the one being selfish at this moment because of your withholding of such information.



Have you considered the possibility that no one is helping because they all recognized how innately flawed your assertion is, just as I do?

Even if I offered up the numbers, everyone else would correctly label them as an outlier attained from twisting around the context of the feat, and never accept it.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You're passive-aggressively arrogant.
> 
> You have no point, because I see how ludicrous what you're pushing for is, yet you try to convince yourself that you "have a point".
> 
> ...



I do have a point, it is surprising that you don't know it

That is what I have you for, you proven me right with what you said up till now.

I did not say they are separate since they are the same according to Einstein.

No, because I never stated it for FT or anime purpose, but for the sake of physics.

Do not know how people can interpret the feat any different than what it logically shows.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I do have a point, it is surprising that you don't know it
> 
> That is what I have you for, you proven me right with what you said up till now.
> 
> ...



There is no "logic" present here outside of what you are trying to force into it, especially when your sense of reason is supremely lacking to not understand how flawed your argument is.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> There is no "logic" present here outside of what you are trying to force into it, especially when your sense of reason is supremely lacking to not understand how flawed your argument is.



I have presented with as much logic there is to show how Natsu could have harmed Zeref while he had his Space Time protection. My reason is quite fine with how simple Mangas makes science seem to be.


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> I have presented with as much logic there is to show how Natsu could have harmed Zeref while he had his Space Time protection. My reason is quite fine with how simple Mangas makes science seem to be.



You do not get what "Artistic License" is, do you?  Most authors _set science to the side_ when writing their stories, _especially when magic is involved_, or when a science-fiction author needs to make things such as faster-than-light travel possible for the story to work.

Yet you're trying to apply hard physics to a manga where magic is central to the story.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You do not get what "Artistic License" is, do you?  Most authors _set science to the side_ when writing their stories, _especially when magic is involved_, or when a science-fiction author needs to make things such as faster-than-light travel possible for the story to work.
> 
> Yet you're trying to apply hard physics to a manga where magic is central to the story.



But even magic has a set of rules and even shows scientific even natural references too. It didn't have to be hard physics when you demand so much. Just like how sun temperature doesn't scorch the planet


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> But even magic has a set of rules and even shows scientific even natural references too. It didn't have to be hard physics when you demand so much. Just like how sun temperature doesn't scorch the planet



You're only confirming further that you don't get how temperature works at all.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> You're only confirming further that you don't get how temperature works at all.



And you are confirming that you don't know how Natsu managed to hurt Zeref


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> And you are confirming that you don't know how Natsu managed to hurt Zeref



Zeref's body is still physical.  He could still be punched a regular fire fist from Natsu, and a bare Human fist.  Fairy Heart is just another type of Magic.  That's all that is needed for Natsu to 'burn' the Fairy Heart magic away because 'power of friendship', and bad plot writing.

No "distorting space-time because of heat" need be involved.

Given you have shown only the minimal amount of understanding of general relativity or temperature to try to abuse and twist around both, you should expect no one to reasonably accept what you are pushing for.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Zeref's body is still physical.  He could still be punched a regular fire fist from Natsu, and a bare Human fist.  Fairy Heart is just another type of Magic.  That's all that is needed for Natsu to 'burn' the Fairy Heart magic away because 'power of friendship', and bad plot writing.
> 
> No "distorting space-time because of heat" need be involved.
> 
> Given you have shown only the minimal amount of understanding of general relativity or temperature to try to abuse and twist around both, you should expect no one to reasonably accept what you are pushing for.



How would he have burned FH when Space Time would restore it and Zeref to normal? Power of Feelings increases one's magic, nothing more, writing has nothing to do with it.

His flames effected the fabric of time.

You are the one making a big deal out of Mangas that have no need to explain the pseudoscience in their works.


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## DarkTorrent (Sep 22, 2017)

this is getting nowhere

@Nighty the Mighty , @MusubiKazesaru

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Catalyst75 (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> How would he have burned FH when Space Time would restore it and Zeref to normal? Power of Feelings increases one's magic, nothing more, writing has nothing to do with it.



Simple: Fairy Heart is the source of the power to manipulate space and time.  Burn that, and Zeref loses the ability to manipulate space-time.

And yes, terrible writing and 'power of feelings' have everything to do with it.  



OMGMAN said:


> His flames effected the fabric of time.



There is only the 'fabric of space-time'.  "Time" cannot exist without "space" _or "matter".
_


OMGMAN said:


> You are the one making a big deal out of Mangas that have no need to explain the pseudoscience in their works.



It is not 'pseudo-science' if the subject in question breaks the laws of physics altogether.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Much like Bleach?


Cute. Comparing either is retarded as even in Bleach is worst moment, it still rises far above FT. Is like comparing little red riding hood with Dracula.

Reactions: Optimistic 3


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Cute. Comparing either is retarded as even in Bleach is worst moment, it still rises far above FT. Is like comparing little red riding hood with Dracula.


> That moment where you're proud of your favorite series for being better than FT.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## MysticBlade (Sep 22, 2017)

That moment when OMGMAN pulls up to school with that Draco for catalysts
Everything cool


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> > That moment where you're proud of your favorite series for being better than FT.


I'm not proud. Even SAO looks like a masterpiece by comparison.


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## TYPE-Rey (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> I'm not proud. Even SAO looks like a masterpiece by comparison.


Obviously you are or otherwise you wouldn't have repeteated the fact that Bleach is > FT for at least three times when Bleach had 0 to do with this tread.
And no, FT is  not worse than SAO. FT was actually decent for some time, while the only alright ting about SAO was the setting, nothing more.


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

reyatsuguy said:


> Obviously you are or otherwise you wouldn't have repeteated the fact that Bleach is > FT for at least three times when Bleach had 0 to do with this tread.
> And no, FT is  not worse than SAO. FT was actually decent for some time, while the only alright ting about SAO was the setting, nothing more.


Bleach is being compared with Fairy Tail and he said FT was on equals ground. 

IDK, the current is promising. Haven't gotten around seeing it yet but Mother's Basement said it seems good.

Also SAO abridged is the main canon and you know it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Catalyst75 said:


> Simple: Fairy Heart is the source of the power to manipulate space and time.  Burn that, and Zeref loses the ability to manipulate space-time.
> 
> And yes, terrible writing and 'power of feelings' have everything to do with it.
> 
> ...



No, FH and space time are two separate things. That still does not explain how he can effect FH when Space Time will return him to normal

No they don't power of feelings only increase one's power, it is the flames of emotion that increased his heat.

Zeref's effects both time and space, he probably didn't say that.

Same with Yamamoto's heat which doesn't even burn SS.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Cute. Comparing either is retarded as even in Bleach is worst moment, it still rises far above FT. Is like comparing little red riding hood with Dracula.



Dracula (FT) would devour red riding hood (Bleach)


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> No, FH and space time magic are two separate things.
> 
> No they don't power of feelings only increase one's power, it is the flames of emotion that increased his heat.
> 
> ...


Except is shown is affecting it.


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Dracula (FT) would devour red riding hood (Bleach)


Yeah it's dick.


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

FT is at best Twilight lv and that's offensive enough to make even that series vomit. You saying FT is Dracula and Bleach being Red Ridding Hood just shows how little u know about the series.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Yeah it's dick.



Red Riding hood is a woman goof ball

And Bleach is at best Gods of Egypt level.

I know more about FT than you so I know how to value it


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Red Riding hood is a woman goof ball


Which is even more appropriate.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Except is shown is affecting it.



Effecting time and space yes but in order to burn Fh


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Which is even more appropriate.



Which he devours her blood and makes her into his vampire concubine


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## lol 4th dimension reiatsu (Sep 22, 2017)

What is this thread


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

I know it got out of hand with all of these people demanding hard science when the pseudoscience in other series is just fine for them.


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## Divell (Sep 22, 2017)

OMGMAN said:


> Effecting time and space yes but in order to burn Fh


Is not. I was talking about Yamamoto.



OMGMAN said:


> Which he devours her blood and makes her into his vampire concubine


Dracula as Fairy Tail would break his teeth just by being on Red Ridding Hood as Bleach.



OMGMAN said:


> I know it got out of hand with all of these people demanding hard science when the pseudoscience in other series is just fine for them.


Is not. You are trying to push a "science" made up out of your ass.


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Divell said:


> Is not. I was talking about Yamamoto.
> 
> 
> Dracula as Fairy Tail would break his teeth just by being on Red Ridding Hood as Bleach.
> ...



His flames never shown to effect time and space.

Red riding hood got eating by a wolf, no way Drac's tooth would break.

Then the science behind Yamamoto sun heat is nonsense too.


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## shade0180 (Sep 22, 2017)

did this two guys throwing tomatoes against each other over bleach and FT?


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## alsdkjasl;djalskdaj (Sep 22, 2017)

Just saying Dracula would eat Red Riding Hood based on feats and stats


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