# [Iranian Election Discussion] Shots fired at huge Iran protest.



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 13, 2009)

> State media declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner of Iran's election but challenger Mirhossein Mousavi alleged irregularities and claimed victory for himself.
> 
> The state election commission said early Saturday that Ahmadinejad, a hardline conservative, was ahead with 66 percent of the votes in Friday's election after 21 million ballots were counted.
> 
> ...





I could not find the obligatory Reuters "girls partying post-election". That type of behavior is frowned upon in Iran, apparently. 

Basically, Ahmadinejad completely blew away his opponent. The worst I'm seeing in the news/blogs is a confusing ballot. Conspiracy/fraud theories abound. Realistically, however, nothing short of miscounting 5 million votes could have done this (Ahmadinejad has like 20 mil votes to his opponent's 10 million). IMO more like a typical youth movement that fizzles on election night (a la John Kerry).


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## First Tsurugi (Jun 13, 2009)

Iran, I am disappoint.


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## Cirus (Jun 13, 2009)

Well the pres there did use his position to heavily influence the election.  Though going as far to alter the election outcomes is something that seems he would do.  Just to make sure he stayed in power.  Still I think people in that country are going to riot over this.


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## First Tsurugi (Jun 13, 2009)

Cirus said:


> Well the pres there did use his position to heavily influence the election.  Though going as far to alter the election outcomes is something that seems he would do.  Just to make sure he stayed in power.  *Still I think people in that country are going to riot over this*.



Doubt it, very much so.

It's impossible to fake that entire 66% percent, so a large part of the population did actually vote for him.


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## Jin-E (Jun 13, 2009)

SO "Yes we can!" too:

- International Pariah status

- More outlandish Zionist conspiracy theories

- More soiling of Iran's reputation everytime that buffoon opens his mouth.

Well done 



Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> I could not find the obligatory Reuters "girls partying post-election". That type of behavior is frowned upon in Iran, apparently.



The typical female Ahmadinejad voter DOES leave alot to the imagination


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## Rukia (Jun 13, 2009)

Congratulations Ahmadinejad.

sharingansasu


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 13, 2009)

Cue air strikes...

This is the most productive result in regards to stopping Iran getting nukes. No new face to hide behind and his history of rhetoric means a tougher response.


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## On and On (Jun 13, 2009)

Sucks for them 

What idiots.


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## Megaharrison (Jun 13, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Cue air strikes...
> 
> This is the most productive result in regards to stopping Iran getting nukes. No new face to hide behind and his history of rhetoric means a tougher response.



Pretty much this.

At least Ahmadinejad is a better symbol of what the Iranian Theocracy is actually like. Mousavi would have just gotten the sympathies's of European countries with his lack of Holocaust denial and only hanging gay people...Sometimes! The joke among Mossad apparently is that Ahmadinejad is one of their PR agents. 

Though regardless of who won that figurehead position, our policy regarding Iran would not have been any different.


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## ZeroBlack (Jun 13, 2009)

*President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Does a Dubya: Somehow Gets Re-elected.*



> TEHRAN ? Hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won re-election by a thumping margin, official figures showed Saturday, but his moderate challenger rejected the tally as a "dangerous charade" that could lead to tyranny.
> 
> The scale of Ahmadinejad's victory -- he took nearly twice as many votes as former Prime Minister Mirhossein Mousavi with counting almost complete after Friday's poll -- upset widespread expectations that the race would at least go to a second round.
> 
> ...



FUUUUUUCK.


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## Seto Kaiba (Jun 13, 2009)

The Iranian elections are a sham anyways...


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## FrostXian (Jun 13, 2009)

Wait, someone actually thought it was even remotely possible for someone else to be elected?
People love AND fear him.
He cheats and pulls strings.

_HOW_ was he supposed to lose?


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## ZeroBlack (Jun 13, 2009)

I was giving myself a SMALL slimmer of hope that it wouldn't be true, that this douchebag wouldn't get re-elected....


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## Darklyre (Jun 13, 2009)

ZeroBlack said:


> I was giving myself a SMALL slimmer of hope that it wouldn't be true, that this douchebag wouldn't get re-elected....



Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.


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## Sanity Check (Jun 13, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> Pretty much this.
> 
> At least Ahmadinejad is a better symbol of what the Iranian Theocracy is actually like. Mousavi would have just gotten the sympathies's of European countries with his lack of Holocaust denial and only hanging gay people...Sometimes! The joke among Mossad apparently is that Ahmadinejad is one of their PR agents.
> 
> Though regardless of who won that figurehead position, our policy regarding Iran would not have been any different.




Heey.

When its publicized Ahmadinejad "passed out" due to "overwork" or "exhaustion", you wouldn't happen to know _what it is_ he is "working" so "hard" on, would you?


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## Megaharrison (Jun 13, 2009)

1mmortal 1tachi said:


> Heey.
> 
> When its publicized Ahmadinejad "passed out" due to "overwork" or "exhaustion", you wouldn't happen to know _what it is_ he is "working" so "hard" on, would you?



Making sure that his Homosexual-Free country stays that way obviously


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## ZeroBlack (Jun 13, 2009)

Darklyre said:


> Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.



I now know that.


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## sadated_peon (Jun 13, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> The joke among Mossad apparently is that Ahmadinejad is one of their PR agents.


Comming from an Israeli, that is very hypocritical.


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## T4R0K (Jun 13, 2009)

So the trolling will continue ?


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## Sunuvmann (Jun 13, 2009)

Cool. Can we bomb them yet?


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## Munak (Jun 13, 2009)

I wish this time he'd something really trollific, like putting up a giant aquarium in the middle of the Iranian desert.

Nukes just don't cover it no more.


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## Sunuvmann (Jun 13, 2009)

I think we should have like an official Iranian elections thread since like thar be many threads on this and stuff.


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## Mael (Jun 13, 2009)

*waits for some sort of Israeli conspiracy by "someone"*

Sadly I saw this coming.  The theocracy still doesn't care about its people.

But think of it this way fellas.  Mahmoud got a second term when he should've lost just like Bush here in the States.  He might become soooooo hated by his own people, someone else and possibly better is almost assuredly going to get in.  Right?


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## Elim Rawne (Jun 13, 2009)

Fuck Yeah,Dinnerjacket?


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## ShangDOh (Jun 13, 2009)

Props to Iran, now late night comedy shows will have plenty of material to use.


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## Cellar Door (Jun 13, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> Doubt it, very much so.
> 
> It's impossible to fake that entire 66% percent, so a large part of the population did actually vote for him.


The people are rioting. I live in Iran, and watching the local news, I can tell that there's pretty much hell out there, at least in some areas. Police can't deal with 'em.


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## Andy Dufresne (Jun 13, 2009)

Propaganda... anyone can do it. 

I stand behind Ahmadinejad. The elections were fair.


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## Lord Yu (Jun 13, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> *waits for some sort of Israeli conspiracy by "someone"*
> 
> Sadly I saw this coming.  The theocracy still doesn't care about its people.
> 
> But think of it this way fellas.  Mahmoud got a second term when he should've lost just like Bush here in the States.  He might become soooooo hated by his own people, someone else and possibly better is almost assuredly going to get in.  Right?



That would only matter if his position were more than a figurehead.


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## Silvermateus (Jun 13, 2009)

its obviously a set up, we have to send Cal Lightman to investigate man!


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## Camille (Jun 13, 2009)

*Ahmadinejad re-election sparks Iran clashes *



> *Thousands of opposition supporters have clashed with police after President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner of Iran's presidential poll.
> *
> Secret police have been attacked, while riot police used batons and tear gas against backers of Mir Hossein Mousavi, who called the results a "charade".
> 
> ...



This is the starting distance of Sasuke and Gaara at the Chuunin exams

Someone here said there would be no riots over this?


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 13, 2009)

MU

Video of riots in Iran. If this doesn't cool down soon, the military might be sent in.


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## NanoHaxial (Jun 13, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised if the voting results were manipulated. Mousavi apparently lost the balloting in his own hometown, which one would think to be quite unlikely.


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## Impy-Chan (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm Iranian and I voted AGAINST that dictator. 90% of iranians at the embassy were voting for Mousavi. This is complete and utter bullshit! The riots in tehran are just going to get worse, this is just the start. The youth warned the government that if they were insincere about these elections, they would "see us on the streets". The iranians just wanted the freedom to be heard and this crappy islamic government couldn't even offer them that!


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## Cyrizian (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm also an Iranian. I guess this proves there is no democracy here. The Dark Lord Khamenei controls all. It was all for show...


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 13, 2009)

indeed...they probably manipulated the polls somehow...the results are extremely suspicious, there's absolutely no way he could lose in his own hometown


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 13, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> Doubt it, very much so.
> 
> It's impossible to fake that entire 66% percent, so a large part of the population did actually vote for him.



Jimenez: ''If it wasn?t for Madrid and Bar?a, we would have won this Liga. Well, we?ll win La Liga next season''


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## ninjaneko (Jun 13, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> *waits for some sort of Israeli conspiracy by "someone"*
> 
> Sadly I saw this coming.  The theocracy still doesn't care about its people.
> 
> But think of it this way fellas.  Mahmoud got a second term when he should've lost just like Bush here in the States.  He might become soooooo hated by his own people, someone else and possibly better is almost assuredly going to get in.  Right?


Aren't they already at that point, lol? With Bush, it was inevitable; history shows that U.S. presidents always get re-elected in wartime.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 13, 2009)

What about LBJ? His support was so weak he decided not to even stand again.


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jun 13, 2009)

I prefer Persia


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## First Tsurugi (Jun 13, 2009)

Well shit, looks like I guessed wrong about the rioting.

Though is this good or bad?


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## Vom Osten (Jun 13, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> I'm also an Iranian. I guess this proves there is no democracy here. The Dark Lord Khamenei controls all. It was all for show...



You guys didn't know that?


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## Bloody Rage (Jun 13, 2009)

AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT SEES AN IRANIAN CIVIL WAR BREWING? this could be terrible for that country and the entire middle east! there are already some semi-violent protests going on, how long will it be until the violence turns to murder and bombings? and then how long until the ruling party decides to counterattack and spark an all out civil war? then how long before we decide to intervene and help the rebels out? 

it wouldn't be the first time we helped iran during a civil war.


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## chaosakita (Jun 13, 2009)

This is really depressing. But I guess the elections were rigged anyways.


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## Bender (Jun 13, 2009)

I am NOT surprised in the least bit


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## Cyrizian (Jun 13, 2009)

Galizien said:


> You guys didn't know that?



Oh we knew. We just thought that if enough of us voted against Antar (our nickname for Mahmoud), Khamenei would be forced to concede a few freedoms. But it looks like violence is the only answer now. Its going to get bloody...


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## Impy-Chan (Jun 13, 2009)

In a way, this is a good thing. Yes, I hate him BUT I think this is the begining of the end of this government. People are going to get angrier as more blood is shed and they will lose support from iranians as well as internationaly. They are going to have to recognise that iran has to change. It's just such a shame that the youths are the ones suffering the most out there..


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## NanoHaxial (Jun 13, 2009)

> Report: Defeated Ahmadinejad rival arrested in Iran
> 
> Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi was reportedly arrested Saturday following the reformist's defeat at the polls by hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Supporters of Mousavi, the main challenger to Ahmadinejad, responded to the election with the most serious unrest in Tehran in a decade and charged that the result was the work of a dictatorship.
> 
> ...



Cannavaro injured!


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## Cyrizian (Jun 13, 2009)

Impy-Chan said:


> In a way, this is a good thing. Yes, I hate him BUT I think this is the begining of the end of this government. People are going to get angrier as more blood is shed and they will lose support from iranians as well as internationaly. They are going to have to recognise that iran has to change. It's just such a shame that the youths are the ones suffering the most out there..



Its sad but true freedom is only comes with bloodshed. I honestly can't believe we put up with this government for 30 years. We should have known these mullahs are only in it for themselves. I too feel sad for all the youths. But we need to end these mullahs so our children don't have to suffer under them. This is going to be a rough week...


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## Impy-Chan (Jun 13, 2009)

You're right, they're just tearing Iran more apart. I know the people are brave and persistent so my thoughts are with them. I'm so worried, a dozen of my cousins are rioting. I'm going to Tehran in a week!(I have end of year exams atm grrr)


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 13, 2009)

eh...so the one who lost was was arrested then....heh...this truly was a farce, they woulden't even let him talk to the one in charge about corruption


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## Cyrizian (Jun 13, 2009)

Impy-Chan said:


> You're right, they're just tearing Iran more apart. I know the people are brave and persistent so my thoughts are with them. I'm so worried, a dozen of my cousins are rioting. I'm going to Tehran in a week!(I have end of year exams atm grrr)



By the time you get there it might be a very different place, I'm afraid. I just told my parents in Tehran to stay indoors as much as possible. I'm still in Esfahan and theres not much rioting here. But the people here are not happy about the (so called) election. But I think its great that people are finally letting it all out. We are sick of these mullahs. My dad used to tell me how Iran was 30 years ago. It almost sounded like a foreign country! In the 70s we were the most poweful mid east nation. And now every country seems to hate us. Damn these mullahs. What a mess they have made of things.


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## The Pink Ninja (Jun 13, 2009)

Arresting the opposing candidate?

Wow, they're not even pretending.

And people think it's okay for this country to get nukes?


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## Camille (Jun 13, 2009)

The Pink Ninja said:


> Arresting the opposing candidate?
> 
> Wow, they're not even pretending.
> 
> And people think it's okay for this country to get nukes?



We humans are known for our distinct lack of common sense


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## Kagekatsu (Jun 13, 2009)

Cue the 1000 and 1 thoeries on how Israel is going to start a war now.

Really, this election just screamed rigged from the get-go. No doubt Khameni and the clerics did their share of shoe-stringing.


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## Kagekatsu (Jun 13, 2009)

Seems Admenijihad pulled a Dubya and then some. This whole election just screamed rigged from the start with Khameni pulling the ropes.

Meantime "cues Mega and Lezard arguing over how Israel is going to start a war now."


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## xenopyre (Jun 13, 2009)

The elections werent rigged , stop being delusional , just becouse Iranians didnt act the way you wanted them to act


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## mayumi (Jun 13, 2009)

its a sham. atleast maybe the iranian people have the guts to do something about it.


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## Sunuvmann (Jun 13, 2009)

*[Iranian Election] Mousavi Presumably Arrested. Riots May Have Hurt Many*



> The Daily Kos is still reporting that Mousavi, the presidential candidate that run against Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Iran may be under house arrest. According to the Daily Kos? site:
> 
> Pyknet: Mousavi has been place under house arrest. *He was arrested on his way to Khamenei?s house. All communication has been shut off. Khamenei has issued a statement claiming that HE that he is leading this coup to SAVE the Islamic Government*
> 
> ...


Kakome

Looks like things are starting to get interesting 

I bet you there'll be tanks involved before the end of the weekend.

God I love the smell of revolution in the morning.


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## fieryfalcon (Jun 13, 2009)

I really wish you rabid partisan types could quit comparing our elections to iran's in any way whatsoever.  Bush didn't rig an election; we don't have a board of clerics deciding who may and may not run, we're not a backwards third world dictatorship: Iran is.


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## Cirus (Jun 13, 2009)

When it was reported that Mousavi didn't win in the vote for his home town it leads me to believe that the mob has a point, and also with that it leads me to believe the elections were rigged in some way.


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## Kagekatsu (Jun 13, 2009)

A harken to the good ol days of 79.


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 13, 2009)

Cirus said:


> When it was reported that Mousavi didn't win in the vote for his home town it leads me to believe that the mob has a point, and also with that it leads me to believe the elections were rigged in some way.



It would really be quite hard (almost impossible) to rig a landslide like this without some hard evidence turning up somewhere. A few thousand votes? Sure. Perhaps 100,000, I suppose. But not 30% of the total ballots cast. 

The truth is that the western world saw their Obama in Mousavi, and expected that the inner-city youth would single-handedly defeat Ahmadinejad's immense rural and conservative support. That expectation fell as flat as John Kerry did in 2004. 

A fraud this massive would be nearly impossible to pull off without hard evidence turning up somewhere, and so far there has been none. It looks as if Ahmadinejad simply had a huge turnout from the rural areas, and that western reporters were basing their Mousavi hopes on a small and unrepresentative sample of urban youths. It also doesn't help that the most universally hated states throughout the ME (US and Israel) openly despised him.


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## iander (Jun 13, 2009)

I agree that the West has a motive to prop up the election as illegitimate but if you think such a fraud can't be done, you should check out elections in Mexico.


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## ZeroBlack (Jun 13, 2009)

Kagekatsu said:


> Seems *Admenijihad pulled a Dubya and then some.* This whole election just screamed rigged from the start with Khameni pulling the ropes.
> 
> Meantime "cues Mega and Lezard arguing over how Israel is going to start a war now."



Lmao
Coughstolemylinecough


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## Marmite. (Jun 13, 2009)




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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 13, 2009)

News channels reporting that Iranian officials say Mousavi was in fact NOT arrested. He actually released a letter to the Iranian people:



> Honorable people of Iran
> 
> The reported results of the 10th Iranians residential Election are appalling. The people who witnessed the mixture of votes in long lineups know who they have voted for and observe the wizardry of I.R.I.B (State run TV and Radio) and election officials. Now more than ever before they want to know how and by which officials this game plan has been designed. I object fully to the current procedures and obvious and abundant deviations from law on the day of election and alert people to not surrender to this dangerous plot. Dishonesty and corruption of officials as we have seen will only result in weakening the pillars of the Islamic Republic of Iran and empowers lies and dictatorships.
> 
> ...



e c l i p s e

People need to start using their brains: just because the election didn't elect the man you want, you cannot just make blanket accusations of fraud without evidence. Well, I suppose one can, but it looks rather reactionary and anti-intellectual.


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## Cirus (Jun 13, 2009)

When the guys main challenger didn't get a win from his hometown.  It screamed to me that the election was rigged.  Still this will be an interesting next several years to see what comes out of Iran.


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## Jeff (Jun 13, 2009)

Wait hold up they blocked facebook?!?!  How are people going to maintain their Metropolis cities?

But in all seriousness...this is very sad.  It goes to show that something had to have happened for Ahmadinejad to have won by a full 30%


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## TDM (Jun 13, 2009)

I like how one side is saying "there's no way a 30% margin of victory could have been fabricated" and the other is saying "it's impossible for that large of a margin of victory to have _not_ been fabricated."

Which one is it?


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## Shinigami Perv (Jun 13, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> I like how one side is saying "there's no way a 30% margin of victory could have been fabricated" and the other is saying "it's impossible for that large of a margin of victory to have _not_ been fabricated."
> 
> Which one is it?



It's very possible to fabricate a 30% margin, but not without some hard evidence turning up. There must have been thousands of vote-counters who had their hands on these ballots. Some video evidence, eyewitness testimony, or even a plausible description of how the fraud was perpetrated would be expected, but there has been none. 

I'll reserve saying that this result is 100% legit, but certainly it is a massive effort to perpetrate and conceal the defrauding of 30% of the country.


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## Vom Osten (Jun 13, 2009)

Who cares who won the election, no matter who loses Khamenei still rules the country.


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## Megaharrison (Jun 13, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> I bet you there'll be tanks involved before the end of the weekend.



At least then the Iranians would have finally found a purpose that their tanks are actually suitable for.

/Military humor.

Anyway, I still doubt the election was rigged. Not because I have any confidence in the Iranian "electoral process", but rather because how meaningless the election actually is in the greater scheme of things. The religious elite, Khameini, and the IRGC would just be making a mess for themselves by rigging it and it'd be a stupid move.

But if he is indeed arrested then this just makes it abundantly clear that this "election" was rigged. Which means the Mullah's couldn't even have a meaningless election where both the candidates were brutal thugs be honest. That would be pretty sad.

In any regard I lose no sleep over Mousavi's arrest. The man was a butcher and thug. He just usually knew when to keep his mouth shut, something Ahmadinejad seems to have issues with.


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## TDM (Jun 13, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> At least then the Iranians would have finally found a purpose that their tanks are actually suitable for.
> 
> /Military humor.
> 
> ...


...well, that pretty much wraps up this whole topic.


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## id_1948 (Jun 13, 2009)

Unfortunatley the results of the elections are correct (i was kinda hoping ahmadedajan wont be re-elected)

The main people who voted for Mousavi were the educated people living in big Urban cities who went to uni and were relatively well off. They were the ones hoping for a change 

Unfortunately that group (while being more educated and shows up alot on tv and media)- are not the majority

Ahmadidajan was able to depend on his support from the rural areas and the poor in Iran (the vast majority of the population)- They look up to him for alot of the social services he started in poor areas- mainly universities and schools he helped to built in the neglected cities. Another example is the 3 million or so poor iranian women who mainly relied on carpet making as a source of income. They lived deprived lives with not much income. Ahmadidajan made it compulsory for the state to provide them with insurance and look after them

In the end all these people came out to vote (a turnout of 85% is stunning)- Ahmadidajan just had the majority backing and he won... 

No foul play here


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## Danny Lilithborne (Jun 13, 2009)

Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> It's very possible to fabricate a 30% margin, but not without some hard evidence turning up.


If someone tells me "Report the election the way we tell you or I'll kill your family", you better believe I'll burn whatever they tell me to and say whatever they want me to say.

So I'm not getting this "evidence must be there" thing.


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## Vanity (Jun 14, 2009)

*sigh*

That guy is one of the most far out leaders....I wish he wouldn't have been elected again. I have heard fishy things about it though, like texting being down during the voting for some reason and texting is how a lot of young people remind their friends to go out and vote....and apparently the younger people liked the other candidate more.


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## Vanity (Jun 14, 2009)

That's bad that it's getting so violent. I'm glad I don't live there.

It really does feel like it was rigged though.

I really wish he didn't get back into power. He's one of the worst leaders in the world.


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## DemonAbyss10 (Jun 14, 2009)

let them degenerate into civil war, that way they reap what they sow, and maybe they can earn something out of it.


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## Vanity (Jun 14, 2009)

DemonAbyss10 said:


> let them degenerate into civil war, that way they reap what they sow, and maybe they can earn something out of it.



It would probably be bad for the country to descend into that....a more unstable country is always worse isn't it?


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## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> It would probably be bad for the country to descend into that....a more unstable country is always worse isn't it?


If they had nukes, then it'd be a problem, a la pakistan.

Since they don't yet, all the better.

Best case scenario: The theocracy is toppled
Worst case scenario: There is a major domestic crackdown a la Tienanmen square. However in that scenario, that'd probably only sew the seeds for a future revolution and would create a shit ton of domestic unrest and make Iran lose even more face in the region.

So that's still a pretty good scenario.

It actually calming down is the only real bad scenario actually. But then things wouldn't actually be any worse at this end.

So really, there are no bad scenarios. >_>


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## fieryfalcon (Jun 14, 2009)

It was rigged whether the actual voting was rigged or not.  The only candidates allowed to run were pre-picked cronies of the religious dictators and once elected those cronies rule as puppets with no real power of their own.  What part of, its a dictatorship, is so hard for people to understand?


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## DemonAbyss10 (Jun 14, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> It would probably be bad for the country to descend into that....a more unstable country is always worse isn't it?



it depends really, would making that country unstable help topple a regime? In my reasoning, yes it would, so it is a good thing. People die, sacrifices must be made somewhere, but as long as that regime is out of there, i can see things start to improve out in the middle east. That or it could just be all part of my plan to gradually conquer the world... which it isnt, since it is secret


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## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

This page is really good
Adrenaline 3 Results

I'm going to keep F5ing it myself tomorrow.


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## Simulacrum (Jun 14, 2009)

i wonder how crazy it would be if the office actually had purpose other than being the seat of the national figurehead.


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## Vanity (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> If they had nukes, then it'd be a problem, a la pakistan.
> 
> Since they don't yet, all the better.
> 
> ...



Yeah I was thinking about nukes. :S

I know they don't have them yet but they are pretty close right? At least I thought I heard that they were.

I do hope that the current government gets kicked out though in some way or another.


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 14, 2009)

> "NYT's Bill Keller in Iran. The New York Times' executive editor offers a lengthy dispatch from Tehran. Notably, he quotes an Interior Ministry official who claimed that plans for rigging the election had been in the works for weeks:
> 
> One man who worked in the Ministry of Interior, which carried out the vote count, said the government had been preparing its fraud for weeks, purging anyone of doubtful loyalty and importing pliable staff members from around the country.
> 
> ...



Hmm....it does seem that the number of protesters far outweighs the people who are happy about it that's for sure..


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> News channels reporting that Iranian officials say Mousavi was in fact NOT arrested. He actually released a letter to the Iranian people:
> 
> animeftw
> 
> People need to start using their brains: just because the election didn't elect the man you want, you cannot just make blanket accusations of fraud without evidence. Well, I suppose one can, but it looks rather reactionary and anti-intellectual.



The man still calls BS on Mahmoud and calls for action.

Seems like he ain't satisfied one bit and I don't blame him.


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 14, 2009)

What i wanna know is what "propaganda western media" has to do with anything..i keep hearing about that but i have no idea what people are talking about, wasn't it the people of iran who wanted someone new in office?


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## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> What i wanna know is what "propaganda western media" has to do with anything..i keep hearing about that but i have no idea what people are talking about, wasn't it the people of iran who wanted someone new in office?



I think some people thought the West was propping Mousavi up higher to what he actually was and thought this guy actually had a chance.


----------



## strongarm85 (Jun 14, 2009)

I for one think the best outcome would be for things to devolve into a civil war, if for no other reason than to fix Jimmy Carter's mistake of installing the Ayatollahs and turning Iran into the country that it is today. We wouldn't even have to fight the war directly. We'd just have to supply the faction that has a greatest chance of winning as well as the greatest chance of supporting our ideals.

The election is meaningless anyways the Ayatollah is the supreme ruler of Iran, not the president. The President's job is merely as a public figure head to represent the Ayatollahs. They have very little power of their own.


----------



## iander (Jun 14, 2009)

strongarm85 said:


> I for one think the best outcome would be for things to devolve into a civil war, if for no other reason than to fix Jimmy Carter's mistake of installing the Ayatollahs and turning Iran into the country that it is today. We wouldn't even have to fight the war directly. We'd just have to supply the faction that has a greatest chance of winning as well as the greatest chance of supporting our ideals.



First off, Carter's mistake was supporting the Shah until it was too late and then ignoring the new regime.  He initially refused to let the Shah come to the US for cancer treatments but eventually gave in for humanitarian reasons when it looked like he was dying.  Big mistake, it caused the hostage crisis and the further cooling of relations between the US and Iran.  Carter didnt install the Ayatollahs, they took power from an incredibly unpopular regime.  Carter made mistakes but he was handed an almost impossible situation from his predecessors that installed and then supported the Shah which forever lost US legitimacy in Iran.  

As to your idea of again getting involved in Iranian affairs, I would says its incredibly ignorant of Iranian history.  Apparently some people don't learn from past mistakes.  Iran is the way it is because the US previously tried to meddle in Iranian affairs for its own benefit.  The US can support or criticize what it wants about Iran but it should not get involved in promoting civil war.


----------



## maj1n (Jun 14, 2009)

iander said:


> First off, Carter's mistake was supporting the Shah until it was too late and then ignoring the new regime.  He initially refused to let the Shah come to the US for cancer treatments but eventually gave in for humanitarian reasons when it looked like he was dying.  Big mistake, it caused the hostage crisis and the further cooling of relations between the US and Iran.  Carter didnt install the Ayatollahs, they took power from an incredibly unpopular regime.  Carter made mistakes but he was handed an almost impossible situation from his predecessors that installed and then supported the Shah which forever lost US legitimacy in Iran.
> 
> As to your idea of again getting involved in Iranian affairs, I would says its incredibly ignorant of Iranian history.  Apparently some people don't learn from past mistakes.  Iran is the way it is because the US previously tried to meddle in Iranian affairs for its own benefit.  The US can support or criticize what it wants about Iran but it should not get involved in promoting civil war.


It seems to me it could hardly be called America's fault anymore, with America's involvement,the shah was unpopular, so the people elected an alternative which is the current one, and it seems even worse.

Although perhaps someone can compare the Shah to present Iran so i can see the faults of both.


----------



## Jin-E (Jun 14, 2009)

Unfortunately, these Senile douchebags wont relinquish their iron grasp on power voluntarilly.

Im not going to make dogmatic claims about any rigging, but Ahmadinejad winning by such a huge margine? Yes, he has the rural vote, but in such a huge landslide? Seems really unrealistic to me.

This will be a real litmus test for the clerical regime.

EDIT:

Found this piece by Juan Cole, a Middle East expert:




> *Top Pieces of Evidence that the Iranian Presidential Election Was Stolen*
> 
> 1. It is claimed that Ahmadinejad won the city of Tabriz with 57%. His main opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is an Azeri from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital. Mousavi, according to such polls as exist in Iran and widespread anecdotal evidence, did better in cities and is popular in Azerbaijan. Certainly, his rallies there were very well attended. So for an Azeri urban center to go so heavily for Ahmadinejad just makes no sense. In past elections, Azeris voted disproportionately for even minor presidential candidates who hailed from that province.
> 
> ...



Article found here

Whats important is the fact that Cole is known as a harsh critic of the USA&Israel and have even defended Ahmadinejad at times. That even him of all people say this was a phony election tells loads about the situation.

I guess theres no single smoking gun, but all the circumstancial evidence point to the obvious, namely that the clergy once again acted like the petty little dictators that they truly are.


----------



## Goodfellow (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> If they had nukes, then it'd be a problem, a la pakistan.
> 
> Since they don't yet, all the better.
> 
> ...



And thus the West leaned backwards and with a pleased sigh, certain that whatever the outcome, it would be beneficial for our evil capitalistic rule


----------



## iander (Jun 14, 2009)

maj1n said:


> It seems to me it could hardly be called America's fault anymore, with America's involvement,the shah was unpopular, so the people elected an alternative which is the current one, and it seems even worse.
> 
> Although perhaps someone can compare the Shah to present Iran so i can see the faults of both.



No one is saying that because the US helped to propel the Iranian regime to power, that it excuses everything they do.  The regime can be judged on its own merits.  My issue is with people who think that it would be a good idea to repeat the mistakes of the past by again getting directly involved with regime change in Iran.  I am not interested in a debate about which regime was worse since they both are awful.


----------



## maj1n (Jun 14, 2009)

iander said:


> No one is saying that because the US helped to propel the Iranian regime to power, that it excuses everything they do.  The regime can be judged on its own merits.  My issue is with people who think that it would be a good idea to repeat the mistakes of the past by again getting directly involved with regime change in Iran.  I am not interested in a debate about which regime was worse since they both are awful.


I agree that America should not get involved, it might be harsh but the country has to live and suffer for its own mistakes so they wake up and change.


----------



## Al-Yasa (Jun 14, 2009)

id_1948 said:


> Unfortunatley the results of the elections are correct (i was kinda hoping ahmadedajan wont be re-elected)
> 
> The main people who voted for Mousavi were the educated people living in big Urban cities who went to uni and were relatively well off. They were the ones hoping for a change
> 
> ...



agreed.....America just complaining because they see Ahmadidajan as a threat


----------



## N120 (Jun 14, 2009)

He's been in power for quite some time already, and other than his controversial speeches he's done for the cameras, he actually done very little to incite or directly harm anyone in general, so i dont get why people are so afraid of him continuing another term in office. some people are over-reacting.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

> Yes, the president of Iran's own election monitoring commission has declared the result invalid and called for a do-over. That is huge news: when a regime's own electoral monitors beak ranks, what chance does the regime have of persuading anyone in the world or Iran that it has democratic legitimacy? Second:
> Stratfor is reporting that Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani, head of the Expediency Council, has resigned. Though unconfirmed, the report is saying that Rafsanjani is resigning from his position as head of the Expediencey Council, NOT his position as the leader of the Assembly of Experts, which has oversight responsibility over the office of the Supreme Leader and would be responsible for naming Ayatollah Khamenei’s successor.


I fucking loled.

Election declared invalid



> [T]he scariest point he made to me that I had not heard anywhere else is that this "coup by the right wing" has created pressures that cannot be solved or patted down by the normal institutional arrangements Iran has constructed. The Guardian Council and other power nodes of government can't deal with the current crisis and can't deal with the fact that a civil war has now broken out among Iran's revolutionaries.
> 
> 
> My contact predicted serious violence at the highest levels. He said that Ahmadinejad is now genuinely scared of Iranian society and of Mousavi and Rafsanjani. The level of tension between them has gone beyond civil limits -- and my contact said that Ahmadinejad will try to have them imprisoned and killed.
> ...


And it appears they're trying to get rid of Khamenei as well.


----------



## Lezard Valeth (Jun 14, 2009)

I think the Israeli air stike threats helped Ahmadinejad more than anything else.

4 years ago that guy was a nobody, nowadays he is praised as the hero who fought American imperialism & Israel.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 14, 2009)

I predicted that this opposition canidate would be arrested, now he will die of a "heart attack"


----------



## Lezard Valeth (Jun 14, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> I predicted that this opposition canidate would be arrested, now he will die of a "heart attack"



I found no confirmation that he was arrested

on the contrary I can read everywhere that Moussavi is asking to invalidate this election


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Lezard_Valeth said:


> I found no confirmation that he was arrested
> 
> on the contrary I can read everywhere that Moussavi is asking to invalidate this election



Do you think they should?


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Lezard_Valeth said:


> I think the Israeli air stike threats helped Ahmadinejad more than anything else.
> 
> *4 years ago that guy was a nobody, nowadays he is praised as the hero who fought American imperialism & Israel.*



And absolutely failed to deliver on economic promises while increasing inflation and unemployment.  Oh and his women's rights track record is equally as shitty.


----------



## Lezard Valeth (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Do you think they should?



arrest mousavi or cancel the election of ahmadinedjad?

according to some papers there were massive fraud but I don't know if it's true and it is not my buisness anyway, but if I were Iranian and knew of evidence of fraud I'd certainly support invalidation of the results


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Lezard_Valeth said:


> arrest mousavi or cancel the election of ahmadinedjad?
> 
> according to some papers there were massive fraud but I don't know if it's true and it is not my buisness anyway, but if I were Iranian and knew of evidence of fraud I'd certainly support invalidation of the results



I meant the invalidation...and that's a good answer.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 14, 2009)

Lezard_Valeth said:


> I think the Israeli air stike threats helped Ahmadinejad more than anything else.
> 
> 4 years ago that guy was a nobody, nowadays he is praised as the hero who fought American imperialism & Israel.



Praised? Maybe by the Mullahs. But 90% of the population can't stand him. His communication skills alone are some of the most terrible in Iran. He sounds completely uneducated. The fact that he represents our country to the world and can't even speak English is also truely shameful. 

And he didn't "fight" anyone or anything. He just talks... (mind you, this is all he can do)


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 14, 2009)

Lol i guess linguistic skills do matter when compared to the skills of the leader, bush coulden't speak english worth a damn neither and it was his native language


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 14, 2009)

Kyasurin Yakuto said:


> Yeah I was thinking about nukes. :S
> 
> *I know they don't have them yet but they are pretty close right? At least I thought I heard that they were.
> *



You heard wrong. They stopped going for nukes back in 2003. At least if you listen to what the CIA has to say.

Or did you mean nukelar power plants? In that case you heard right.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

> "URGENT JUST IN, there are TANKS in front of the interior ministry of tehran in valiasr st. & fatemi cross CAREFUL"


CALLED IT!



> "My next door neighbor is an Iranian immigrant who came here in 1977. He just received a SAT phone call from his brother in Tehran who reports that the rooftops of nighttime Tehran are filled with people shouting 'Allah O Akbar' in protest of the government and election results. The last time he remembers this happening is in 1979 during the Revolution. Says the sound of tens of thousands on the rooftops is deafening right now."





> Journalist: Please don't use the word "fraud" because it is mitigation of what has happened in Iran. Fraud is what was happening in the past 30 years. This is not fraud. They haven't [counted ] people's votes. Using the word fraud is like calling a deep cut a small scratch. There was no fraud; it was a coup.
> 
> 
> RFE/RL: Please explain why you call it a coup. Based on what?
> ...


Shits starting to hit the fan, yo.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> CALLED IT!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Source por favor?


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

here

I'm F5ing it every hour. Shit's interesting as fuck lol.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> here
> 
> I'm F5ing it every hour. Shit's interesting as fuck lol.



Damn,all the fun shit is going down , but I have to study for a midterm


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

*[Iranian Election] The Revolution Will Be Twittered*



> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hso9PcLbXtE[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Mock not. As the regime shut down other forms of communication, Twitter survived. With some remarkable results. Those rooftop chants that were becoming deafening in Tehran? A few hours ago, this concept of resistance was spread by a twitter message. Here's the Twitter from a Moussavi supporter:
> 
> ...


here

Well I must say, whatever the outcome of all this Iran stuff, my respect for that site has gone up exponentially with how its actually being made incredibly useful by the Iranians. Bloody CNN and others had made it seem utterly ridiculous in my mind previously.

I also suggest anyone else interested in this stuff, follow and keep tabs on this site: here

Its been much better with providing information then the network sites. BBC however has been pretty good but Huffington Post is providing frequent updates and of stuff on the ground that actually matters, not just what is being put out by the government which the others seem to be doing.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jun 14, 2009)

This has now firmly grasped my interest, standing by for more.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 14, 2009)

No NO NO!!! Don't do that you idiots! If you follow our damned lead, it'll be another Tiananmen Square  Look how that turned out


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jun 14, 2009)

Row Row?


----------



## BandGeekNinja (Jun 14, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> This has now firmly grasped my interest, standing by for more.



same here, there's a tingle of excitement in the air tonight (or morning I guess in Iran)


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> No NO NO!!! Don't do that you idiots! If you follow our damned lead, it'll be another Tiananmen Square  Look how that turned out


The only reason Tiananmen square fizzled out is China was able to bring economic growth that made people have an interest in stability, since their economy is in the gutter and that is the middle east for christs sake lol, one does not simply bring out tanks and expect the people to roll over, in fact, if they do, that'd just probably piss more people off and add fuel to the fire.


First Tsurugi said:


> Row Row?


FIGHT DA POWAH!


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> Row Row?



FIGHT DA POWAH!


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> FIGHT DA POWAH!



I wonder what the emperor would say


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> I wonder what the emperor would say



The Emperor hates Mahmoud...so it's all good. 

You would know about the Emperor anyway...he was born in "Anatolia."


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> The Emperor hates Mahmoud...so it's all good.
> 
> You would know about the Emperor anyway...he was born in "Anatolia."



Not so loud,Chaos worshippers are around


----------



## OniTasku (Jun 14, 2009)

BBC is a pretty good news circuit, they're fairly reliable and try not to generally mix up nonsensical politics in their reports. This is pretty interesting, as revolution definitely seems to be coming closer for the Iranian people.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Not so loud,Chaos worshippers are around




I just enjoy a little anarchy, that's all.


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Not so loud,Chaos worshippers are around



The psychic shield is up...LV shall not penetrate.


----------



## mayumi (Jun 14, 2009)

^ its been up and exciting since yesterday. to be a part of sort of revolution, i wonder how that feels.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

^ Feels like clubs and tear gas.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

So it doesn't worry anybody that _Allaho Akbar_ is being used as the rallying cry by the same people who "...want freedom... are sick of lies...[and] enjoy life and know hope"?


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> I just enjoy a little anarchy, that's all.


Heretic!



WalkingMaelstrom said:


> The psychic shield is up...LV shall not penetrate.


I lol'd


----------



## First Tsurugi (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> So it doesn't worry anybody that _Allaho Akbar_ is being used as the rallying cry by the same people who "...want freedom... are sick of lies...[and] enjoy life and know hope"?



That's just how they roll.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

First Tsurugi said:


> That's just how they roll.


You'd think they'd rather chant "Liberty is great!" (freedom as a buzzword is jaded) or something along those lines. It'd make plenty more sense.


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> I lol'd



He used to make me lol...now he just makes me:




organizedcrime said:


> You'd think they'd rather chant "Liberty is great!" (freedom as a buzzword is jaded) or something along those lines. It'd make plenty more sense.



This is Iran...come on now.


----------



## mayumi (Jun 14, 2009)

^ right, atleast they seem to have some courage to take some beatings for there cause.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> He used to make me lol...now he just makes me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He makes you turn traitor?


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> He makes you turn traitor?



Rage boy...makes one go fuckraeg...just like Kharn.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Rage boy...makes one go fuckraeg...just like Kharn.



Use the Blood Angels for that metaphor,don't use traitors


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Use the Blood Angels for that metaphor,don't use traitors



Read the Huffington Post Update website.'

Are we sure the Huffy is a decent source for this?


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> This is Iran...come on now.


It's a legitimate concern, because all this effort will be for nothing if the next government is _also_ a Theocracy. A simple hand-wave and generalization is not that fantastic of an idea.


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> It's a legitimate concern, because all this effort will be for nothing if the next government is _also_ a Theocracy. A simple hand-wave and generalization is not that fantastic of an idea.



I know what you mean, and I'd love to have the youth do the exact same thing that they did here, finally get up and act.

I just have a harder time believing they'll get away with it without any serious police repercussions.  The Ayatollah will clamp down hard if this shit gets out of hand.  Mousavi is no saint but apparently what has happened to him sparked quite a firestorm.  Some of the statements are also puzzling such as his own hometown voting for Mahmoud.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> It's a legitimate concern, because all this effort will be for nothing if the next government is _also_ a Theocracy. A simple hand-wave and generalization is not that fantastic of an idea.


If they are a true theocracy then it wouldn't be too bad if you think about it. Like if they actually adhere to that thing of Islam banning nuclear weapons. But many of the voters for Mousavi did it in part to ease the cultural restrictions of Ajmedinejad. They don't mind if the religious people control the upper government, just to give them more freedom in their lives.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> I know what you mean, and I'd love to have the youth do the exact same thing that they did here, finally get up and act.


Here, as in the United States? They kind of did that by electing Obama (we don't need riots to induce change - if we do, then our system is pretty fucked up).





WalkingMaelstrom said:


> I just have a harder time believing they'll get away with it without any serious police repercussions.  The Ayatollah will clamp down hard if this shit gets out of hand.  Mousavi is no saint but apparently what has happened to him sparked quite a firestorm.


Yeah, it was quite a ham-handed cover up that did little to change people's minds about vote-tampering.





WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Some of the statements are also puzzling such as his own hometown voting for Mahmoud.


Well, to be frank, the West was going to complain about election results as long as Ahmadinejad won at all. You know, the whole "no true Democracy will elect someone we hate."





Sunuvmann said:


> If they are a true theocracy then it wouldn't be too bad if you think about it. Like if they actually adhere to that thing of Islam banning nuclear weapons. But many of the voters for Mousavi did it in part to ease the cultural restrictions of Ajmedinejad. They don't mind if the religious people control the upper government, just to give them more freedom in their lives.


Are they not aware that the religious people who control the upper government are the _cause_ of the cultural restrictions in the first place? The prudishness predates Ahmadinejad.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

True enough, but they know things lightened up some before Ajmedinejad and that it became more strict under him. Hence the post hoc blame, be it true or not.


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> Are they not aware that the religious people who control the upper government are the _cause_ of the cultural restrictions in the first place? The prudishness predates Ahmadinejad.



It does...but Mahmoud was just the icing on the cake with his outspoken trollishness.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 14, 2009)

Its actually kinda scary for me. Alot of my family and friends live in Tehran and its very chaotic. I just hope they are safe. We dont have any weapons so if Khamenei decides to use lethal force, alot of us will get massacred. Exciting is not the word I would use to describe it.


----------



## Queen Vag (Jun 14, 2009)

...I was suppose to be in Iran this month.

several of my family members live in Tehran specifically, they told me they can't even get around in a lot of the streets


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> True enough, but they know things lightened up some before Ajmedinejad and that it became more strict under him. Hence the post hoc blame, be it true or not.





WalkingMaelstrom said:


> It does...but Mahmoud was just the icing on the cake with his outspoken trollishness.


It seems, ultimately though, that things can't _really_ change until the upper leaders are replaced with a more secular band.


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

Watch, watch!

Sooooomebody's hiding something.........


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> It seems, ultimately though, that things can't _really_ change until the upper leaders are replaced with a more secular band.



I recommend teh Spess Mehrens.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> It seems, ultimately though, that things can't _really_ change until the upper leaders are replaced with a more secular band.


That's actually looking more likely. Like there are signs of challenges to the Supreme Leader and its looking like he may be ousted to restore faith in the republic part of the islamic republic after his quick certification of the results.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> I recommend teh Spess Mehrens.


I said secular, not obnoxious (_zing_).





Sunuvmann said:


> That's actually looking more likely. Like there are signs of challenges to the Supreme Leader and its looking like he may be ousted to restore faith in the republic part of the islamic republic after his quick certification of the results.


Seriously: ham-handed. 

Uh...this is a pretty stupid question, but what is the aim of these rallies/riots? Is it an overturning of the government, or simply a recount/revote for the election?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> I said secular, not obnoxious (_zing_).Seriously: ham-handed.
> 
> Uh...this is a pretty stupid question, but what is the aim of these rallies/riots? Is it an overturning of the government, or simply a recount/revote for the election?



in a way its probably a mix of everything...the iranians who voted for the opposition just wanted a change from the current leader making them look bad from the international community and freedom from his own policies against them..and when they didn't get it...they decided to take the revolution into their own hands


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> Uh...this is a pretty stupid question, but what is the aim of these rallies/riots? Is it an overturning of the government, or simply a recount/revote for the election?



Honestly, we just wanted Dark Lord Khamenei to loosen the noose around our necks a little. We knew that Khamenei would get final say on who gets to be president (with no real power) no matter who got the most votes. We just wanted him to understand we are not happy with the way things have gone lately. But instead of letting Mousavi be president (even though he couldn't really do anything other than talk) and letting us know he understands how we feel...

He announced that Crazy Mahmoud was back and that our voices don't even matter to him. And now we are pissed. So we are going to let him hear our voices on the streets. Khamenei will probably start mass executions soon... He is one seriously sick fuck.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> He announced that Crazy Mahmoud was back and that our voices don't even matter to him. And now we are pissed. So we are going to let him hear our voices on the streets. Khamenei will probably start mass executions soon... He is one seriously sick fuck.


What a fool - mass executions will only rouse more international sympathy. I swear this is one of the worst run PR campaigns ever.


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> MMmmmm...can't wait for those IAF planes if the dickery continues.


Pre-emptive strikes (especially by the hawkish IDF) are generally frowned upon by the international community: typically you want to avoid making Iran look like a victim as much as possible. Then again, since when does Israel really care about what its neighbors think of it?


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> Pre-emptive strikes (especially by the hawkish IDF) are generally frowned upon by the international community: typically you want to avoid making Iran look like a victim as much as possible. Then again, since when does Israel really care about what its neighbors think of it?



That's just it...they really don't.

Oh and despite the fact that I normally don't rely on the Huffy as a source, Ms. Sadeghi had some interesting words about this.

this

As for Ms. Sadeghi herself...do want.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Jun 14, 2009)

damn iran imploding. 

saw someone reporting from the ny times interviewing a worker for the Interior Ministry and that guy said they didnt even count the votes at the interior ministry and just gave ahmadenjad those numbers

link


----------



## TDM (Jun 14, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Oh and despite the fact that I normally don't rely on the Huffy as a source, Ms. Sadeghi had some interesting words about this.
> 
> link


Haha, wasn't it already bleedingly obvious that American aggression in the region only aided the fear-mongering of Khamenei, Ahmadinejad, and their ilk?


----------



## Mael (Jun 14, 2009)

organizedcrime said:


> Haha, wasn't it already bleedingly obvious that American aggression in the region only aided the fear-mongering of Khamenei, Ahmadinejad, and their ilk?



Then would they actually be nervous of a nicer-guy approach like Obama's?


----------



## robotnik (Jun 14, 2009)

ayatollah assahola


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 15, 2009)

Let the blood flow in the streets! I am excited


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

> 11:54 PM ET -- Expecting more violence. From reader Arif: "I've got a few American cousins [in Iran] visiting family, and I just got off the phone with them and the rumor going around is that that the police/basij have been given orders to use live fire if necessary. The feeling is that today could get really violent, *especially if mossavi is not allowed to speak at the 4pm rally*, or if people do not like what he has to say."


So basically for us on the East coast of US, when we wake up, we'll find out how big a splatter the shit hitting the fan leaves.


----------



## maj1n (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Then would they actually be nervous of a nicer-guy approach like Obama's?


In some ways Obama has prevented from from distracting the public from internal Iranian issues with 'America is EEEVILLLLLL'.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 15, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> Let the blood flow in the streets! I am excited



the hell? are you a vampire?


----------



## Mintaka (Jun 15, 2009)

Ewwwww twitter.


Anyway sounds like shit is hitting le fan.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 15, 2009)

No but I LOVE civil unrest especially if it so happens that it might topple one of the biggest assholes in the middle east


----------



## saprobe (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm not a fan of Twitter but it is proving useful. Chinese twitterers are getting around the ban to discuss the Tiananmen anniversary, too.

here


----------



## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Jun 15, 2009)

They are losing grip on the people.


----------



## Cirus (Jun 15, 2009)

That is what happens when people are able to communicate with each other.  I am personally not a fan of twitter, but I am glad it is being used for that purpose.  Hopefully some things will change and get better over there, but I fear they will get worse before such happens.

Also I wonder how Ama(what ever the fuck his name is) is going to blame the west for this.


----------



## sharpie (Jun 15, 2009)

A guy at work was talking about this.  Even though he "_won_", Ahmadinejad's reign will only last so long.  The younger generation is tired of being shut out of the world, and wants a lot of what's going on in western countries.  Probably explains some of the riots going on in Iran as we speak.  A lot of people there don't agree with the numbers.  But sadly, Ahmadinejad is threatening to punish those that question the results of the election.


----------



## iander (Jun 15, 2009)

Twitter can actually be very useful in situations like this.  When a couple friends of mine were doing protest actions at the republican convention in 2008, they sent orders of where to go and streets to block and such over twitter to avoid the police.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

*[IRAN ELECTION] Background Info*

Here is some background information from good Mr. Escobar:

Pepe Escobar: Two camps locked in fierce struggle, as Revolutionary Guard stages a successful "coup"


Video: People who just can't get along with tech


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

Who needs democracy when you have Islam, right?


----------



## Outlandish (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Who needs democracy when you have Islam, right?



Very true.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Who needs democracy when you have Islam, right?



Which brings up the question: What country actually practices democracy?


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> Which brings up the question: What country actually practices democracy?


US, 
UK,
France, 
Germany,
Japan,
etc.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Apparently...it is on now.

Turn out the lights D:

Always a good idea for the Basij eh?


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> US,
> UK,
> France,
> Germany,
> ...




     (congrats! you're the first one who made me use that one...)


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> (congrats! you're the first one who made me use that one...)



Care to elaborate,though looking at your sig I know whats coming...Still,humor me.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Care to elaborate,though looking at your sig I know whats coming...Still,humor me.



Prepare for epic lulz.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Prepare for epic lulz.



I have a Introduction to Research methods test in 4 hours,I could use the lulz


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 15, 2009)

There's bound the be lulz with that explanation, arguing against such "lojik" and everything


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> There's bound the be lulz with that explanation, arguing against such "lojik" and everything



I wish Xion was here,it was his specialty


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Well it's now confirmed a protester was shot dead by the Basij.



A shitstorm about to happen?


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Well it's now confirmed a protester was shot dead by the Basij.
> 
> Sakura will help Naruto mature.Hinata's role is to install Naruto as official Hokage.
> 
> A shitstorm about to happen?



The Basij are a bunch of twats so it doesn't suprise me they'd do something that stupid. They're the same geniuses that used to clear Iraqi minefields by running over them.


----------



## Toby (Jun 15, 2009)

An awesome Twitter-contact, persiankiwi, is keeping a live-update you should all see. Apparently they have received help in "hacking" the government-websites and are trying to keep them down by overloading traffic. Like this one for instance, Ahmadinejahd's personal website, is currently down. At the same time a new picture has emerged of a demonstrator, allegedly killed, in Tehran. 

Currently around one hundred thousand people are in the capitol, the most since the last revolution against the Shah, and among the demonstrators are opposition-candidates Mousavi, Karroubi and former president Khatami, who have now filed a formal request to carry out an investigation. It has been confirmed that the council of guardians and that the supreme leader Khamenei himself have approved of the request. That would be unheard of usually, so he is either worried by the demonstrations, that there may be truth to the claim of cheating, or both. 

Interesting yet unconfirmed reports of army-officials siding with the demonstrators have also surfaced throughout the day but there seems to be no firm source on that.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Merlin said:


> An awesome Twitter-contact, persiankiwi, is keeping a live-update you should all see. Apparently they have received help in "hacking" the government-websites and are trying to keep them down by overloading traffic. Like this one for instance, Ahmadinejahd's personal website, is currently down. At the same time a new picture has emerged of a demonstrator, allegedly killed, in Tehran.
> 
> Currently around one hundred thousand people are in the capitol, the most since the last revolution against the Shah, and among the demonstrators are opposition-candidates Mousavi, Karroubi and former president Khatami, who have now filed a formal request to carry out an investigation. It has been confirmed that the council of guardians and that the supreme leader Khamenei himself have approved of the request. That would be unheard of usually, so he is either worried by the demonstrations, that there may be truth to the claim of cheating, or both.
> 
> Interesting yet unconfirmed reports of army-officials siding with the demonstrators have also surfaced throughout the day but there seems to be no firm source on that.



Jesus...this thing might be bigger than I had originally estimated...


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 15, 2009)

Merlin said:


> Interesting yet unconfirmed reports of army-officials siding with the demonstrators have also surfaced throughout the day but there seems to be no firm source on that.



I know it won't happen, but if this becomes as explosive as 1979 this would solve so many problems  . We'd have a new Middle East overnight. 

Though the army officials you speak of are almost certainly Artesh. The Revolutionary Guard won't go against the Theocracy in a million years.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Care to elaborate



Hm.. not really. But what the heck:

US: two party system which is essentially a one party system. Both Parties agree on important stuff, yet trying to keep the illusion to disagree, by disagreeing on minor stuff or just talking about disagreeing. Important stuff: Israel, Nafta (soon to be NAU), etc.

Same goes for most of the other countries, sometimes more (e.g. Japan), sometimes less (e.g. Germany). Parties like "Die Linke" in Germany who disagree with the general canon (such as Afghanistan or being in Nato for that matter) get bashed or ignored by all parties and the mass media. Now you may argue "tough luck". I call that quite undemocratic. Unless you think that people should be given only certain choices (which is what real-life democracy is).


----------



## NanoHaxial (Jun 15, 2009)

> Hours earlier, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei directed one of Iran's most influential bodies, the Guardian Council, to examine claims of election fraud.
> 
> But there was no guarantee that the move by Khamenei, who had earlier welcomed the election results, would satisfy those challenging Ahmadinejad's re-election or quell rioting.
> 
> On Saturday, however, Khamenei urged the nation to unite behind Ahmadinejad and called the result a "divine assessment."



a new picture


----------



## Toby (Jun 15, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> I know it won't happen, but if this becomes as explosive as 1979 this would solve so many problems  . We'd have a new Middle East overnight.
> 
> Though the army officials you speak of are almost certainly Artesh. The Revolutionary Guard won't go against the Theocracy in a million years.



I'm assuming you're hoping this demonstration will bring an end to the council of guardians, because simply installing Mousavi will mean minor reform. I personally hope that the former would happen, but it seems unlikely unless these people really do get the army-element, since that is the only trump-card left that can put an end to this. 

From what I gathered from various Twitter-folk and a friend in Iran, these are elements in several branches, including the Revolutionary Guard. I'm betting those are the supporters of Khatami who are willing to have anything but Ahmadinejahd run a whole new term. He has soiled the country's reputation and economic condition after all.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> Hm.. not really. But what the heck:
> 
> US: two party system which is essentially a one party system. Both Parties agree on important stuff, yet trying to keep the illusion to disagree, by disagreeing on minor stuff or just talking about disagreeing. Important stuff: Israel, Nafta (soon to be NAU), etc.
> 
> Same goes for most of the other countries, sometimes more (e.g. Japan), sometimes less (e.g. Germany). Parties like "Die Linke" in Germany who disagree with the general canon (such as Afghanistan or being in Nato for that matter) get bashed or ignored by all parties and the mass media. Now you may argue "tough luck". *I call that quite undemocratic*. Unless you think that people should be given only certain choices (which is what real-life democracy is).


3rd parties not doing enough to boost their popularity and people not voting for them,but rather other parties is undemocratic?What?
Here's a kicker,maybe people don't want to want to vote for them.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

son of goku said:
			
		

> US: two party system which is essentially a one party system. Both Parties agree on important stuff, yet trying to keep the illusion to disagree, by disagreeing on minor stuff or just talking about disagreeing. Important stuff: Israel, Nafta (soon to be NAU), etc.
> 
> Same goes for most of the other countries, sometimes more (e.g. Japan), sometimes less (e.g. Germany). Parties like "Die Linke" in Germany who disagree with the general canon (such as Afghanistan or being in Nato for that matter) get bashed or ignored by all parties and the mass media. Now you may argue "tough luck". I call that quite undemocratic. Unless you think that people should be given only certain choices (which is what real-life democracy is).


So you think that the fact that because most of the electorate agree with each other, and therefore the major political parties agree with each other therefore makes a country no longer a democracy?!?!?

I don?t think you understand the concept of democracy.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

Diceman said:


> 3rd parties not doing enough to boost their popularity and people not voting for them,but rather other parties is undemocratic?What?
> Here's a kicker,maybe people don't want to want to vote for them.



Or maybe a lot of people would vote for them since the are unhappy with the established parties for years and that 3rd party offers a different answer. BUT they don't vote for them cause they get told everyday by the media and the other parties that voting for them would mean certain doom. Or they just don't get any attention. 

Just look what happened to Ron Paul. If you know who that is...


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> Or maybe a lot of people would vote for them since the are unhappy with the established parties for years and that 3rd party offers a different answer. BUT they don't vote for them cause they get told everyday by the media and the other parties that voting for them would mean certain doom. Or they just don't get any attention.
> 
> Just look what happened to Ron Paul. If you know who that is...



Or maybe,just maybe,more people actually agree with the two established parties.It's the third parties own fault for not trying to reach further into the public.And the fact is,people used their democratic rights to vote,you're just butthurt the party you support didn't gain enough votes.Now you go on about the eebil media and brainwashing the public.Get real,will ya?


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> So you think that the fact that because most of the electorate agree with each other, and therefore the major political parties agree with each other therefore makes a country no longer a democracy?!?!?



Eh no. It's about people being represented. Oh no wait, it's about INFORMED people being represented. If people knew what there is to know about those "important issues", they would wonder why none of this is being debated in the media and between those "parties".


----------



## Toby (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku, it is no surprise that an idealistic third party does not enter the fold. It is unpopular because older and more realistic voters and politicians know the third party has little or no power to impact the country in real policy. Smaller radical or sphere parties in the outer periphery are hardly accustomed to sitting in government where compromise is part of the daily life. If anything, the American system makes sense because if the parties do not cooperate, the interest-groups in Congress will divide and conquer them to get their own will. You should be glad that these large institutions keep inexperienced morons from dictating policy. It minimises the damage that could be done without consensus. And consensus in the legislature is imperative for any democracy to work.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

Diceman said:


> Or maybe,just maybe,more people actually agree with the two established parties.It's the third parties own fault for not trying to reach further into the public.And the fact is,people used their democratic rights to vote,you're just butthurt the party you support didn't gain enough votes.Now you go on about the eebil media and brainwashing the public.Get real,will ya?



Butthurt?! I know we're still on NF, but seriously come on! 

You obviously don't know what you talking about and that was to be expected. Never even heard of Ron Paul, huh?! Go do some research, then we can talk.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> Eh no. It's about people being represented. Oh no wait, it's about INFORMED people being represented. If people knew what there is to know about those "important issues", they would wonder why none of this is being debated in the media and between those "parties".



People being ignorant is not being undemocratic,get that through your head.If you want only the votes of the informed people instead of the general public,guess what?That's undemocratic.Nevermind the fact that some people actually agree with the party,hence why they vote for them.
But you are just gonna respond with "eebil media controliing teh sheeple".I'll just repeat it,you're just butthurt that your party didn't enough coverage and/or didn't win.Hence the reason you're buying into the whole Loose Change and Obama Deception CT BS.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Anything from Zeitgeist is typically for the retarded.

Hell even videos on North Korea or Iran (probably not on there) on Zeitgeist would be looked at with massive skepticism.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Anything from Zeitgeist is typically for the retarded.
> 
> Hell even videos on North Korea or Iran (probably not on there) on Zeitgeist would be looked at with massive skepticism.



The first part of Zeitgeist kinda makes sense(not much though),which is even less than Obama Deception,Loose Change and their ilk combined.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

Merlin said:


> Son of Goku, it is no surprise that an idealistic third party does not enter the fold. It is unpopular because older and more realistic voters and politicians know the third party has little or no power to impact the country in real policy. Smaller radical or sphere parties in the outer periphery are hardly accustomed to sitting in government where compromise is part of the daily life. If anything, the American system makes sense because if the parties do not cooperate, *the interest-groups in Congress will divide and conquer them to get their own will*. You should be glad that these large institutions keep inexperienced morons from dictating policy. It minimises the damage that could be done without consensus. And consensus in the legislature is imperative for any democracy to work.



That's what we have all around the world. Isn't it slightly naive to think that people with all the power and all the money in the world would leave any of the important matters for the average person to decide? I know it is hard to swallow, but if you start investigating just a little you'll find out that things aren't as rosy.


----------



## Impy-Chan (Jun 15, 2009)

My friends and family are in Tehran rioting, I fear their safety. One person has been shot but Iran wouldn't dare to kill hundreds in front of the world. Why do you think they were peaceful during the 4 hour "illegal" Mousavi riots? because the whole world was watching them beat the youth and everyone is being heard, as much as they try to keep the information in Iran. 

I'm an Iranian in dubai and went to a 700 people protest around the iranian embassy. There have been protests all over the world: Paris, Boston, London, New York, Sydney ect..
Mousavi's wife said that he won the elections 3:1!!!


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

son of goku said:
			
		

> Eh no. It's about people being represented. Oh no wait, it's about INFORMED people being represented. If people knew what there is to know about those "important issues", they would wonder why none of this is being debated in the media and between those "parties".


Eh yes. The current parties are HEAVILY reliant on opinion polls and other factor to establish the wants of electorate. 

The fact that YOU disagree with those parties doesn?t mean that other do. Your complaint that ?if people knew? is complete BS, and is nothing more than your belief that all people follow you belief, with a dash of conspiracy for seasoning. 

Let me break this to you, the world does not revolve around you.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Impy-Chan said:


> My friends and family are in Tehran rioting, I fear their safety. One person has been shot but Iran wouldn't dare to kill hundreds in front of the world. Why do you think they were peaceful during the 4 hour "illegal" Mousavi riots? because the whole world was watching them beat the youth and everyone is being heard, as much as they try to keep the information in Iran.
> 
> I'm an Iranian in dubai and went to a 700 people protest around the iranian embassy. There have been protests all over the world: Paris, Boston, London, New York, Sydney ect..
> Mousavi's wife said that he won the elections 3:1!!!



Yet some pollsters claim that Ahmadinejad was in fact preferred pre-election:



I call BS on the poll too...but the Basij already killed one person.  I wouldn't be surprised if I saw another death soon too.  However what strikes me as odd is how Ahmadinejad claims he'll be stronger than ever when his own country is rioting.  Even more legitimacy has been lost.

Hope your family is ok though.


----------



## Impy-Chan (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Yet some pollsters claim that Ahmadinejad was in fact preferred pre-election:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's true that he was popular at first but bear in mind that Mousavi only promoted himself for 4 weeks, while Ahmadinejad had 4 years!
There was a poll on CNN asking if the elections were fair: 110 000 took it and 93% said "No".
The country is dividing even more, he's losing more respect and supporters even! Compare the amount of Mousavi supporters today to the amount of Ahmahdi's supporters yesterday(which he brought on buses from other parts of iran). 

Thanks for your concern!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Jun 15, 2009)

A protester was killed.


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Seto Kaiba said:


> A protester was killed.



Yeah we got that already.

But we'd love your two cents though.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Eh yes. The current parties are HEAVILY reliant on opinion polls and other factor to establish the wants of electorate.
> 
> The fact that YOU disagree with those parties doesn?t mean that other do. Your complaint that ?if people knew? is complete BS, and is nothing more than your belief that all people follow you belief, with a dash of conspiracy for seasoning.
> 
> Let me break this to you, the world does not revolve around you.



*sigh* 

What you guys don't get is that cooperate media is not unbiased and never was. Noam Chomsky wrote books about it, but you're probably better served with the video: . 
They report what suits them and leave out what could harm their agenda. Since you're all using the internet on a regular basis, you should have learned that by now, but I guess years of conditioning are hard to overcome.


----------



## Impy-Chan (Jun 15, 2009)

Iranian Doctors confirm 7 people killed on Azadi Square. Updated on Twitter though not confirmed by BCC/CNN/ect.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 15, 2009)

Not confirmed by CNN?  Shocking.  

This is ...I am far too cynical to foresee a good end for this.  While I would love idealistic actual change, the remnants of this conflict I suspect are just going to be scooped up by a couple of clever MNCs opting to help 'rebuild' and having private militia as their strongarms while they work.

But I do hope.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

*Spoiler*: _as we are off topic I will put in spoiler_ 






Son of Goku said:


> *sigh*
> 
> What you guys don't get is that cooperate media is not unbiased and never was. Noam Chomsky wrote books about it, but you're probably better served with the video: this.
> They report what suits them and leave out what could harm their agenda. Since you're all using the internet on a regular basis, you should have learned that by now, but I guess years of conditioning are hard to overcome.


The media reports generally on what the people want to hear and is inline with what the electorate believes. 

Small minorities are represented in the media about as much as they are represented in the population. 
Though this argument means almost nothing now with the internet which is not in anyway regulated.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 15, 2009)

think back to china 1989 people..as much as i and almost everyone else want new base in iran...the goverment will suppress all dissent


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

Well I'm doing my part to help, DDoS of Iranian government websites. If they shut down the opposition's interwebs, its only fair to return the favor:

this

Spread the word to as many people as you can get to help.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> The media reports generally on what the people want to hear and is inline with what the electorate believes.
> 
> Small minorities are represented in the media about as much as they are represented in the population.
> Though this argument means almost nothing now with the internet which is not in anyway regulated.



You don't say?! Thanks for sharing your wisdom with me! 

Now go and listen what Noam (_"arguably the most important intellectual alive today" - New York Times_) has to say about this. I'm done here.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

^ Fitting your set is a hobo. You remind me of the crazy fuck conspiracy theorists shouting at the top of their lungs when I visited new york.


----------



## Agmaster (Jun 15, 2009)

Ok ok I 've got to say, this anti conspiracy wave needs to calm the fuck down.  There are TONS of shady practices done in politics, I can't believe you guys think there is no under the table play at hand. 

Shutup, SoG.  I'm not on your side.  Or I am, but you are fucking up in spreading the idea of conspiracism.  Tone it down, discuss actual concrete tricks that have been pulled off as opposed to what it looks like could happen in 2-5 years, and then once people see you aren't insane, let conjecture begin.  But do be wise enough to keep it calm.  

Still NFers as a whole.  'LOL conspiracy' at anything that says governments aren't working for us (developed nations as it were) is kind of a bad way to look at it.  If that's not willful ignorance, I'm not a hypocrite.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> You don't say?! Thanks for sharing your wisdom with me!
> 
> Now go and listen what Noam (_"arguably the most important intellectual alive today" - New York Times_) has to say about this. I'm done here.


As you have completely given up and are finishing on a appeal to authority fallacy I will leave you with this. 

You claim that the media does not show any dissenting opinions, yet AS YOU POINT OUT the media quotes your authority with your dissenting opinion as "arguably the most important intellectual alive today" - New York Times"

*You quoted a media outlet as your source to support an authority for the position that media outlets don't cover non-mainstream position. 
*
If you can't see the ultimate and complete irony of this I don't know what else I can do.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> As you have completely given up and are finishing on a appeal to authority fallacy I will leave you with this.
> 
> You claim that the media does not show any dissenting opinions, yet AS YOU POINT OUT the media quotes your authority with your dissenting opinion as "arguably the most important intellectual alive today" - New York Times"
> 
> ...





Impy-Chan said:


> Iranian Doctors confirm 7 people killed on Azadi Square. Updated on Twitter though not confirmed by BCC/CNN/ect.


On twitter they have pictures. One at least there was headshot.

But yeah, that's going to cause some serious violence. I wouldn't be the least surprised if we see reprisals on Ajmedi supporters or police tonight.


Agmaster said:


> Not confirmed by CNN?  Shocking.
> 
> This is ...I am far too cynical to foresee a good end for this.  While I would love idealistic actual change, the remnants of this conflict I suspect are just going to be scooped up by a couple of clever MNCs opting to help 'rebuild' and having private militia as their strongarms while they work.
> 
> But I do hope.


Old media = slowpoke.jpg


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 15, 2009)

Just like the good ol days of 1979.

Keep a close eye on this, situation has good potential to go FUBAR. Even if Mahmoud shoots all the rioters ala Shah Pahlavi, his legitimacy sinks more than it already has.


----------



## Son of Goku (Jun 15, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> As you have completely given up and are finishing on a appeal to authority fallacy I will leave you with this.
> 
> You claim that the media does not show any dissenting opinions, yet AS YOU POINT OUT the media quotes your authority with your dissenting opinion as "arguably the most important intellectual alive today" - New York Times"
> 
> ...



So you knew about Noam Chomsky? About his work? And so does the mass media consuming population? No?! So where is that irony you were talking about?


----------



## Mael (Jun 15, 2009)

Son of Goku said:


> So you knew about Noam Chomsky? About his work? And so does the mass media consuming population? No?! So where is that irony you were talking about?



Noam Chomsky is an elitist hack who has nothing but unrealistic situations.

Why do I know this?  I went to a fucking university that had this guy speak again and again and no it wasn't Harvard...it was BU.  He and Howard Zinn need to shut the fuck up.

Now fucking get on topic about Iran.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 15, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> *Noam Chomsky is an elitist hack who has nothing but unrealistic situations.*
> 
> Why do I know this?  I went to a fucking university that had this guy speak again and again and no it wasn't Harvard...it was BU.  He and Howard Zinn need to shut the fuck up.
> 
> Now fucking get on topic about Iran.



Actually,he was pretty great in Linguistics and Philosophy.Most of his success about politics was just riding on the coattails of the former subjects and regular ultraleftist approach to stuff.


----------



## Altron (Jun 15, 2009)

how ironic the forces that brought down the Shah's oppressive regime seems like the same force that will topple this regime soon.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 15, 2009)

Altron said:


> how ironic the forces that brought down the Shah's oppressive regime seems like the same force that will topple this regime soon.



That's probably a looong way off. 

Until the military rebels, you can be virtually assured that no revolution is possible.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 15, 2009)

I certainly hope the military joins us. But I wont hold my breath. More than likely Khamenei will give the order to kill a bunch of protestors. We will be too scared to come out of our homes again and that will be the end of it. I am surprised only one was shot. Usually they kill a few more than that. I'm so glad I'm here in Esfahan because its a lot safer than Tehran. And I'm so glad the world is watching. Finally the Iranian people are getting a chance to say something. Its too bad it had to come to this though.


----------



## Fruits Basket Fan (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh, Iran ......


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> I certainly hope the military joins us. But I wont hold my breath. More than likely Khamenei will give the order to kill a bunch of protestors. We will be too scared to come out of our homes again and that will be the end of it. I am surprised only one was shot. Usually they kill a few more than that. I'm so glad I'm here in Esfahan because its a lot safer than Tehran. And I'm so glad the world is watching. Finally the Iranian people are getting a chance to say something. Its too bad it had to come to this though.


How independent is the military establishment there? Like the Revolutionary Guard, obviously they'd be in lock step. But the military itself?


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 15, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> How independent is the military establishment there? Like the Revolutionary Guard, obviously they'd be in lock step. But the military itself?



Well its complicated. We have a mandatory military duty for all males once they turn 18. You have to go for 2 years i think but you can get exemptions for education and other things. What I'm saying is that alot of iranian soldiers are soldiers by force. They aren't going to give their lives for the mullahs.

But yes the revolutionary guard are definately with the mullahs on everything. Some of them are actually palestinian mercenaries paid by the mullahs. 

Truth is, nobody knows where most of the military's loyalties will lie when the shit goes down. I assume that there will be alot of desertions. Mousavi sure is popular right now. I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.


----------



## mayumi (Jun 15, 2009)

how about former presidents etc, do they have any influence in the military? ofcourse there are rumours that they are bringing in outside forces like hezbollah. perhaps the military is not completely willing to fight the people.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 15, 2009)

mayumi said:


> how about former presidents etc, do they have any influence in the military? ofcourse there are rumours that they are bringing in outside forces like hezbollah. perhaps the military is not completely willing to fight the people.



Well Khatami and Rafsanjani do have alot of pull. But they were and still are just puppets. But they own several industries. No president of Iran has any real power. The mullahs set it up that way so that they get to decide everything. All the "elections" are just staged productions of the mullahs. They just want to say that they have democracy when in reality its just a glorified dictatorship. 

I wouldn't be surprised if those terrorists Hezbollah show up soon. They will kill for free most of the time. And they dont mind killing people that arent there own countrymen. I guess we'll see...


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 15, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> Well its complicated. We have a mandatory military duty for all males once they turn 18. You have to go for 2 years i think but you can get exemptions for education and other things. What I'm saying is that alot of iranian soldiers are soldiers by force. They aren't going to give their lives for the mullahs.
> 
> But yes the revolutionary guard are definately with the mullahs on everything. Some of them are actually palestinian mercenaries paid by the mullahs.
> 
> Truth is, nobody knows where most of the military's loyalties will lie when the shit goes down. I assume that there will be alot of desertions. Mousavi sure is popular right now. I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.


So military choosing to disobey and fight with the people = possibility

What I wonder though is the upper military. Like the generals and stuff. To the point, is a coup like in Pakistan plausible?


----------



## maj1n (Jun 15, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> Well Khatami and Rafsanjani do have alot of pull. But they were and still are just puppets. But they own several industries. No president of Iran has any real power. The mullahs set it up that way so that they get to decide everything. All the "elections" are just staged productions of the mullahs. They just want to say that they have democracy when in reality its just a glorified dictatorship.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if those terrorists Hezbollah show up soon. They will kill for free most of the time. And they dont mind killing people that arent there own countrymen. I guess we'll see...


From my impression there is great anger at ahmadinejad, however like you said, it seems the real culprit is the mullahs.

So my question is, are the common people who hate Ahmadinejad, also angry at the Mullahs? would they challenge the Ayatollah?


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 15, 2009)

maj1n said:


> From my impression there is great anger at ahmadinejad, however like you said, it seems the real culprit is the mullahs.
> 
> So my question is, are the common people who hate Ahmadinejad, also angry at the Mullahs? would they challenge the Ayatollah?



Well like I said, Ahmadinejad can only talk. People are mad at him because he managed to screw even that up. But of course people are mad at the Mullahs. But there is little we can do. Khomeini (the founder of the current government) once said that if every Iranian died but the Islamic Revolution succeeded, then it was a success. The mullahs would gun us all down before surrendering power. We have no guns or weapons really. Theres nothing we can do except protest in the streets and hope they dont shoot us.  



> So military choosing to disobey and fight with the people = possibility
> 
> What I wonder though is the upper military. Like the generals and stuff. To the point, is a coup like in Pakistan plausible?



Some of the military perhaps would. But the generals are very fiercly loyal to the mullahs regime. They are selected especially becuase the mullahs fear a coup. So not very likely. But you never know, maybe Mousavi knows a few generals that owe him a favor.


----------



## maj1n (Jun 16, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> Well like I said, Ahmadinejad can only talk. People are mad at him because he managed to screw even that up. But of course people are mad at the Mullahs. But there is little we can do. Khomeini (the founder of the current government) once said that if every Iranian died but the Islamic Revolution succeeded, then it was a success. The mullahs would gun us all down before surrendering power. We have no guns or weapons really. Theres nothing we can do except protest in the streets and hope they dont shoot us.



I hope your family is safe, i hear initial shootings has begun


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 16, 2009)

maj1n said:


> I hope your family is safe, i hear initial shootings has begun



I know. Already 7 are dead (that I know of) and its about to get alot worse. I hear those Hezbollah terrorists have been called in to "pacify" the streets of Tehran. My parents are staying indoors thankfully. As soon as I can, I'm leaving to go there.  

I really hate those Hezbollah assholes.


----------



## id_1948 (Jun 16, 2009)

Im really curious- but why does Iran with its huge military and efficient police and trained revolutionary gaurds need Lebanese militia (who dont know the language and dont know the city and are thousands of miles away) to come in and pacify and shoot down protestors???

I just dont see or understand how Hizbullah got thrown into this


----------



## hcheng02 (Jun 16, 2009)

id_1948 said:


> Im really curious- but why does Iran with its huge military and efficient police and trained revolutionary gaurds need Lebanese militia (who dont know the language and dont know the city and are thousands of miles away) to come in and pacify and shoot down protestors???
> 
> I just dont see or understand how Hizbullah got thrown into this



Apparently its an ongoing rumor that some of the motorists attacking the protesters were speaking Arabic. It was in the persiankiwi twitter feed.


----------



## id_1948 (Jun 16, 2009)

Hmmm... in that case ill keep an open mind- but ill have to wait for more info or confirmation

Personally it doesnt make sense or fit to me that the iranian police and military and revolutionary gaurds need to fly in hizbollah from lebanon to hassle protestors. Surely they can do it themselves???


----------



## Zabuzalives (Jun 16, 2009)

id_1948 said:


> Hmmm... in that case ill keep an open mind- but ill have to wait for more info or confirmation
> 
> Personally it doesnt make sense or fit to me that the iranian police and military and revolutionary gaurds need to fly in hizbollah from lebanon to hassle protestors. Surely they can do it themselves???



Maybe so that they are not directly involved, or could always blame it on Hezbollah overzealousness. 

Or maybe they just fuel what is a rumor so that the fear will keep people indoors.


----------



## maj1n (Jun 16, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> I know. Already 7 are dead (that I know of) and its about to get alot worse. I hear those Hezbollah terrorists have been called in to "pacify" the streets of Tehran. My parents are staying indoors thankfully. As soon as I can, I'm leaving to go there.
> 
> I really hate those Hezbollah assholes.


Going to try and convince your parents to leave Iran?


----------



## Jin-E (Jun 16, 2009)

BBC world and CNN is reporting that Mousavi is calling on his followers not to attend todays protests.

I can sorta understand this. If this borderline revolution attempt fails and he didnt rejected it outright from the start, then he would probably be charged for sedition and treason in the aftermath.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Daron

They're (the powers of Iran) are ready for a "partial" recount...whatever that means.


----------



## vivEnergy (Jun 16, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Check out Matt's
> 
> They're (the powers of Iran) are ready for a "partial" recount...whatever that means.



One finger, two fingers ,three fingers, four fingers, ..., ten fingers, oops no more fingers ! 

The secret police is having so much fun ! They even invited hizbollah !

That's when i like living in France.


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 16, 2009)

This is not going to end well. 
I doubt this will lead to revolution, there will be a crack down and everything will calm down.

The United States needs to shut its mouth and say nothing.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 16, 2009)

id_1948 said:


> Im really curious- but why does Iran with its huge military and efficient police and trained revolutionary gaurds need Lebanese militia (who dont know the language and dont know the city and are thousands of miles away) to come in and pacify and shoot down protestors???
> 
> I just dont see or understand how Hizbullah got thrown into this



Hezbollah is essentially a branch of the Iranian military (more specifically the IRGC's Quds Force Unit), but most of its members aren't Persian. Thus the Iranians would fly them in to attack protestors because they feel they wouldn't sympathsize with them and switch sides. 

And Hezbollah terrorists know the language. Almost every full member we've come across knows at least some Farci. They're trained in Iran to begin with.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> This is not going to end well.
> I doubt this will lead to revolution, there will be a crack down and everything will calm down.
> 
> The United States needs to shut its mouth and say nothing.



Well what do you do if your Russian and Chinese "buddies" essentially legitimize Mahmoud's election when people are calling for you to call BS?


----------



## Jin-E (Jun 16, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Well what do you do if your Russian and Chinese "buddies" essentially legitimize Mahmoud's election when people are calling for you to call BS?



I know people love to dig on USA for covering Israel at the UN, but Russia and China is surely in another league.

Ethics and Morality is the last thing that influence their foreign policies.


----------



## Euraj (Jun 16, 2009)

Trying to make himself into the George Bush of the Middle East, that Mahmoud is.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Jun 16, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Russia and China playing the troll enablers:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I'll play Devil's Advocate and say why wouldn't they because the man is in their presence and all.  Of course Mahmoud plays lip service with another anti-West shitpile speech.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Jun 16, 2009)

iran is gonna become unstable.

time to send in the cia ninjas


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Come again now?


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 16, 2009)

i just heard iran is putting the clamp down on domestic media coverage of the election. things must be worse than it looks.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> i just heard iran is putting the clamp down on domestic media coverage of the election. things must be worse than it looks.



So basically...they're pulling a China?

Wow, the SCO gives them legitimacy (even if it's just at face value) and Iran's theocracy looks worse yet again.

This might be a blessing in disguise.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> I know. Already 7 are dead (that I know of) and its about to get alot worse. I hear those Hezbollah terrorists have been called in to "pacify" the streets of Tehran. My parents are staying indoors thankfully. As soon as I can, I'm leaving to go there.
> 
> I really hate those Hezbollah assholes.


Keep safe mang and FIGHT DA POWAH!


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 16, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Well what do you do if your Russian and Chinese "buddies" essentially legitimize Mahmoud's election when people are calling for you to call BS?



Nothing you do absolutely nothing. You tell them that this is an Iranian matter and the Iranians will sort out the legitimacy of their own election and it is NOT the responsibility of the united states to dictate to the Iranians anything about their election. 

When this is over America will work with who is still standing.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Nothing you do absolutely nothing. You tell them that this is an Iranian matter and the Iranians will sort out the legitimacy of their own election and it is NOT the responsibility of the united states to dictate to the Iranians anything about their election.
> 
> When this is over America will work with who is still standing.



Agreed.  It's already been noted that if the US says anything, it'll be seen as nothing but Western interference.  I do think Obama knows it'd be best to stay mum and let the talking heads (Mahmoud e.g.) spout their nonsense.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 16, 2009)

That's why he's said nothing so far, we know what to do in this instance, a similar situation with bush occurred years ago, obama learned from that.

He's always said however that diplomacy is not a reward for good behavior, merely to advance interests, so...it should be expected for when we have to deal with however wins anyway, even if whoever won virtually had no power.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> That's why he's said nothing so far, we know what to do in this instance, a similar situation with bush occurred years ago, obama learned from that.
> 
> He's always said however that diplomacy is not a reward for good behavior, merely to advance interests, so...it should be expected for when we have to deal with however wins anyway, even if whoever won virtually had no power.



Craigslist, by Weird Al

He says that Iranians should have a voice, but that's about it.  He did the right thing noting he didn't want to meddle.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 16, 2009)

Considering the theocracy has barred foreign media into the country, whatever glimpses we have of the situation may be small parts of a big shitstorm to come.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

Craigslist, by Weird Al

Apparently Amadi didn't even come in second.


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 16, 2009)

For whatever people may say about American elections, at least our government doesn't shoot people in the streets over it and the government doesn't put a muzzle on the media when things go foul for the entrenched party. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if some other nation had the power that we do, and their elected offices had the influence that ours do.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 16, 2009)

> you will know them by looking at their past tweets - cont.... - #Iranelection
> 4 minutes ago from mobile web
> i cannot name the reliable sources because we are now the main attention of censors - but .. cont.... #Iranelection
> 18 minutes ago from mobile web
> ...


from twitter,looks like shit's getting even more realer


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 16, 2009)

Am I right, or am I right? Their's a huge shitstorm that Iran's coverin up.

Not much different than the Tibet riots last summer.


----------



## vivEnergy (Jun 16, 2009)

YO dawg ! I heard u like revolutions so i made a revolution into your revolution so you can be a rebel while you rebel.


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Diceman said:


> from twitter,looks like shit's getting even more realer



Ohhhhhh snap.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 16, 2009)

> our lives are in real danger now - we are the eyes - they need to stop us - #Iranelection cont....
> 5 minutes ago from mobile web
> pls everyone change your location on tweeter to IRAN inc timezone GMT+3.30 hrs - #Iranelection - cont....
> 27 minutes ago from mobile web
> ...


getting even more realer


----------



## Mael (Jun 16, 2009)

Diceman said:


> getting even more realer



Toshabi



> Republicans criticized Obama for not being tougher on Tehran. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said in an interview on NBC?s TODAY show that Obama should speak out about Iran?s ?corrupt, flawed sham of an election.?





Shut the fuck up Republicans.  You apparently have no concept on how to deal with Iran outside of bombing them.


----------



## Sanity Check (Jun 16, 2009)

I hope this doesn't escalate into civil war.  It won't be pretty if a country with a good number of suicide bombers goes to war against itself.


----------



## vivEnergy (Jun 16, 2009)

USA median age

total: 36.7 years
male: 35.4 years
female: 38 years (2009 est.)

Iran median age

total: 27 years
male: 26.8 years
female: 27.2 years (2009 est.)

Courtesy the CIA world factbook

You don't mess with kids that have nothing to lose


----------



## Utopia Realm (Jun 16, 2009)

This could be a really dangerous situation soon.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

This is my favorite pic yet from all of it



Bad ass old dude looks bad ass.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 16, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Link removed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And just how are we supposed to deal with them outside of bombing them, force seems to be the only thing they understand, and its time for another regime change. Talking seems to get us nowhere with these people.


----------



## dummy plug (Jun 16, 2009)

too bad, i was going for the guy with women rights to win


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 16, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> And just how are we supposed to deal with them outside of bombing them, force seems to be the only thing they understand, and its time for another regime change. Talking seems to get us nowhere with these people.



They have until the end of the year till we lay things on the table, that's already been established. Obama has already said that there will be no concessions. 

The point being that we have no hold on Iran, and claiming whatever nonsense we want because the regime didn't change only invalidates the dissenters own voices in iran, thus stifling their own want for change in the country and turning it into mere "western media propaganda infection"


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Jun 16, 2009)

Link

Iran's senior ayatollah slams election, confirming split

heres a snippet


> Mir Hossein Mousavi, massed in competing rallies Tuesday as the country's most senior Islamic cleric threw his weight behind opposition charges that Ahmadinejad's re-election was rigged.
> 
> "No one in their right mind can believe" the official results from Friday's contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi's charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers "in the worst way possible."


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> And just how are we supposed to deal with them outside of bombing them, force seems to be the only thing they understand, and its time for another regime change. Talking seems to get us nowhere with these people.





Inuhanyou said:


> They have until the end of the year till we lay things on the table, that's already been established. Obama has already said that there will be no concessions.
> 
> The point being that we have no hold on Iran, and claiming whatever nonsense we want because the regime didn't change only invalidates the dissenters own voices in iran, thus stifling their own want for change in the country and turning it into mere "western media propaganda infection"


Well your answer was a tad bit better than my standard " You're an idiot."

Point is with action, we put them on the defense from foreign influence and give the regime a flag to wrap around themselves stifling the dissenters. Do nothing and the opposition has a chance to actually bring about some change which may make it so OH YEAH WE DONT HAVE TO REGIME CHANGEM BECAUSE THEY MAY DO IT THEMSELVES 

So I'll repeat, , You're an idiot.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

> Mir Hossein Mousavi, massed in competing rallies Tuesday as the country's most senior Islamic cleric threw his weight behind opposition charges that Ahmadinejad's re-election was rigged.
> 
> "No one in their right mind can believe" the official results from Friday's contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi's charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers "in the worst way possible."


Sounds like the guy is hedging his bets. As an ayatollah, they really can't do shit to him, current regime with what he says. And if the shit hits the fan, if he's on record of supporting them...sorta, his ass is safe.


----------



## Dark Uchiha (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> Sounds like the guy is hedging his bets. As an ayatollah, they really can't do shit to him, current regime with what he says. And if the shit hits the fan, if he's on record of supporting them...sorta, his ass is safe.



they could assassinate him


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

One does not simply assassinate a Grand Ayatollah in Iran.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 16, 2009)

> "No one in their right mind can believe" the official results from Friday's contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi's charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers "in the worst way possible."
> 
> "A government not respecting people's vote has no religious or political legitimacy," he declared in comments on his official Web site. *"I ask the police and army personals (personnel) not to 'sell their religion,' and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God."*


If this gets out widely, the chances of Army defections has increased significantly.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 17, 2009)

Umm updates? Anymore death destruction and other goodstuff?  Or did it fizzle out?


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 17, 2009)

> 2:01 AM ET -- Aslan: Rafsanjani calls "emergency" meeting of Assembly of Experts. If true, this is a bombshell. Appearing on CNN last night (video below), Iran expert Reza Aslan reported this:
> 
> There are very interesting things that are taking place right now. Some of my sources in Iran have told me that Ayatollah Rafsanjani, who is the head of the Assembly of Experts -- the eighty-six member clerical body that decides who will be the next Supreme Leader, and is, by the way, the only group that is empowered to remove the Supreme Leader from power -- that they have issued an emergency meeting in Qom.
> 
> ...


Khamenei to possibly be ousted.



> 10:38 AM ET -- Mousavi calls for a day of mourning for Iran dead. Reuters reports:
> 
> "A number of our countrymen were wounded or martyred," Mousavi said, calling the day of mourning for Thursday.
> 
> ...


Thursday to be a day of mourning



> More than 500,000 Iranians are silently marching from from Haft-e-Tir Squre to Vali Asr Square, reports Saeed Kamali Dehghan in Tehran.
> 
> 
> Many are wearing black in mourning for those killed in earlier protests. Protesters want to go to Tehran University later to mourn the killing on Sunday of students in a dormitory.
> ...


Huge rally atm.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> Umm updates? Anymore death destruction and other goodstuff?  Or did it fizzle out?



Link removed

Possible death penalties ahoy!


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 17, 2009)

Hmmm it gets interesting, lets hope something really nice comes out of all this.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 17, 2009)

So..all that bawwwing about nothing really changing due to the supreme leader's influence may go away?


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 17, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> So..all that bawwwing about nothing really changing due to the supreme leader's influence may go away?


Well on the nuclear issue, probably not, in a way that's tied to Iranian nationalism as much as anything.

But getting a government that aren't complete cunts and actually negotiable, much more a possibility.


----------



## Felt (Jun 17, 2009)

​


----------



## Jin-E (Jun 17, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> Khamenei to possibly be ousted..



I'll believe it when i see it, quite frankly.

Its simply just too good to be true and extremely unlikely. Would give the protestors the taste of blood and would fuel them rather than appease them. Though politics doesnt always turn up rational, so i guess its not entirely impossible.

In any case, they would put another hardliner in charge. To change a room radically, its not enough to simply move a few chairs around.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2009)

Hollie said:


> ​



In the kitchen?


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Diceman said:


> In the kitchen?



There should be a man next to him with a sign of an arrow pointing to her saying "WHERE'S MAH SAMMICH?!?"

Oh and to anyone who thought we should've said something:

Championship fixtures are out now

Iran whining?  Perish the thought.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2009)

> sea of green to approach 7 Tir from 2 directions - Tehran Uni via Enghelab Ave AND 7 Tir via Vanak Sq - CONFIRMED MOUSAVI - #Iranelection
> about 5 hours ago from web
> we are now leaving for Meydan Haft Tir - 7 Tir Sq for sea of green - reports afterward - #Iranelection
> about 5 hours ago from web
> ...


interesting stuff.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

This was posted by D-Rush Ninja on the other Iran thread:



> Yes. Reported now 12 Protesters and 7 News Reporters dead.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: _ Warning... Graphic_
> ...


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 17, 2009)

Mossad says they expect all of this to fizzle out and for Ahmadinejad to stay the winner. And given the past experience of Jews covertly manipulating governments, clearly we're the best outside source for such assessments


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> Mossad says they expect all of this to fizzle out and for Ahmadinejad to stay the winner. And given the past experience of Jews covertly manipulating governments, clearly we're the best outside source for such assessments



But you're also devious liars out for gold.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 17, 2009)

Source

United States CIA agency and others also agree with megaharrison's and the Mossad's assesment. 

Mass arrests are in the works, along with this troublesome upstart LOL


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> Cure for cancer
> 
> United States CIA agency and others also agree with megaharrison's and the Mossad's assesment.
> 
> Mass arrests are in the works, along with this troublesome upstart LOL



Regardless of what happens, Ahmadinejad and the Iranian theocracy take a massive PR loss and lose legitimacy with their positions.

They won't achieve North Korea status, but with this it's not like they'll be viewed with empathy anymore.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 17, 2009)

Well its a step in the right direction I guess. LOL atleast its not like Saddams election results with 99.9 percent of the vote


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Tleilaxu said:


> Well its a step in the right direction I guess. LOL atleast its not like Saddams election results with 99.9 percent of the vote



I got this from Reuters:



> An alliance has emerged against Ahmadinejad. It includes Mousavi, former presidents Mohammad Khatami and Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani and Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf, the mayor of Tehran. Because Khamenei is fully backing Ahmadinejad, this alliance can be interpreted as an alliance against Khamenei.



Soon they shall form Tehran-Lagann to row row fight da powah.


----------



## Tleilaxu (Jun 17, 2009)

Hmmm I look forward to the semi purification of Iran's government LOL


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2009)

*Ahmadenijad won. Get over it. *



> W*ithout any evidence, many U.S. politicians and “Iran experts” have dismissed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s reelection Friday, with 62.6 percent of the vote, as fraud.
> 
> They ignore the fact that Ahmadinejad’s 62.6 percent of the vote in this year’s election is essentially the same as the 61.69 percent he received in the final count of the 2005 presidential election, when he trounced former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. The shock of the “Iran experts” over Friday’s results is entirely self-generated, based on their preferred assumptions and wishful thinking.*
> 
> ...






*The Iranian People Speak*



> The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, *but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.*
> 
> While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.
> 
> Independent and uncensored nationwide surveys of Iran are rare. Typically, preelection polls there are either conducted or monitored by the government and are notoriously untrustworthy. By contrast, the poll undertaken by our nonprofit organizations from May 11 to May 20 was the third in a series over the past two years. Conducted by telephone from a neighboring country, field work was carried out in Farsi by a polling company whose work in the region for ABC News and the BBC has received an Emmy award. Our polling was funded by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.







This may be much ado about nothing, in the end. It looks like one independent poll by a nonprofit organization had Ahmadinejad winning by his ultimate 2-1 victory margin. The media is creating smoke, and then inferring fire.


----------



## Sunuvmann (Jun 17, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> I got this from Reuters:
> 
> 
> 
> Soon they shall form Tehran-Lagann to row row fight da powah.


You must spread reputation. Sayud face. 


Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> *Ahmadenijad won. Get over it. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saw that article. Its complete bullshit. They really aren't giving much plausible evidence and their main point of him having virtually the same results IS one of the bigger evidences of it being fraud.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Sunuvmann said:


> You must spread reputation. Sayud face.



I'll hold you to that. 

Meanwhile I read the same reports about Mahmoud being favored before the election.  I call BS too.  If that was the case, these protests wouldn't have turned this active.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm loling at the extreme biasedness of those reports...

"arg evil western media promoting the values of free speech!"


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> I'll hold you to that.
> 
> Meanwhile I read the same reports about Mahmoud being favored before the election.  I call BS too.  If that was the case, these protests wouldn't have turned this active.



Polls arent infallible.Remember Truman vs Dewey?


----------



## NanoHaxial (Jun 17, 2009)

Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> *Ahmadenijad won. Get over it. *
> 
> Naruto Chapter 452 Predictions Thread
> 
> ...



The 2-1 victory margin is very misleading considering the poll showed 34% supporting Ahmadenijad and 14% supporting Mousavi with 27% undecided.



> More than one-third of Iranians said they would vote for Mr. Ahmadinejad, even though those who think the Iranian economy is headed in the right direction has dropped from 42 percent in our survey from a year ago to 33 percent in our latest survey.
> 
> Similar to the previous polls, about one-third of Iranians think their personal economic situation got better after Ahmadinejad took office in 2005, while nearly half think it has remained the same. Yet, overall only 27 percent of Iranians think that Ahmadinejad was able to keep his pledge to share Iran’s oil revenues more fairly.
> 
> ...



Given Ahmadinejad's continuing efforts to have Iran alienated by the rest of the world, the tanking economy in the face of record oil profits, and the crackdown and lack of improvement in terms of human and women rights, he's supposed to have gotten an even larger percentage of the vote than previously? I find that difficult to believe.

Not to mention things like the reporting of voting irregularities, Ahmadinejad winning several of the other candidates hometowns. The results were also announced and approved just hours after the election, when the process would normally take days. 



> “The results of the 10th presidential election are so ridiculous and so unbelievable that one cannot write or talk about it in a statement,” said Mehdi Karroubi, a reformist cleric and candidate.
> 
> Mr. Karroubi came in last with 300,000 votes — far fewer than analysts had predicted. “It is amazing that the people’s vote has turned into an instrument for the government to stabilize itself,” he said.
> 
> ...





> Yet Khamenei has now done something extraordinary to the regime's democratic apparatus. Even though Iran's Electoral Commission allows three days to hear challenges before presenting results to Khamenei for approval, the Supreme Leader rushed to put his seal of approval on the outcome, and warned all political factions to refrain from challenging it. His imposition of the result, just hours after the polls closed, stunned the country as doubts about the legitimacy of vote were voiced widely both inside and outside Iran.
> 
> Naruto Chapter 452 Predictions Thread





> On Friday, the polling day, there were reports that opposition observers were barred from entering some voting stations. Mousavi campaign officials also said that a number of stations in the northwest and south ran out of ballots.
> 
> The Interior Ministry announced the first results within an hour of the polls closing and the official result less than a day later. The ministry is supposed to wait three days after voting before it certifies the result, to allow time for disputes to be examined. Friday's announcement, which was based on a very small count, came just minutes after Mousavi declared himself to be "definitely the winner." According to a Mousavi official in Paris, the opposition leader was initially informed by the Interior Ministry that he had won. But ministry officials shortly thereafter publicly called it for Ahmadinejad.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Link removed

I knew it all along.


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2009)

NanoHaxial said:


> The 2-1 victory margin is very misleading considering the poll showed 34% supporting Ahmadenijad and 14% supporting Mousavi with 27% undecided.



All that proves is that the undecideds or people who do not want to be polled broke with the same proportionality as those who were decided and wanted to be polled. 

This is consistent with our own elections, where the undecided break with approximately with the same proportionality as the decided. 



> Given Ahmadinejad's continuing efforts to have Iran alienated by the rest of the world, the tanking economy in the face of record oil profits, and the crackdown and lack of improvement in terms of human and women rights, he's supposed to have gotten an even larger percentage of the vote than previously?



You made two mistakes here: first, by assuming a rational voter (we got GWB twice); second, by using your perspective to judge him. He apparently handed out quite a bit of oil money to the poor. Basically, he distributed largesse for votes, which usually makes a man popular with the poor. While this doesn't prove anything either way, it does give the reason for why so many of the rural poor broke his way.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 17, 2009)

@Mael:

That picture proves nothing. 

here

Two days after government militias open fire, and NOW were getting blamed for interfering?


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Kagekatsu said:


> @Mael:
> 
> That picture proves nothing.
> 
> ...



Of course Iran is going to try and blame us...that's what they do best.  The only problem is that most of the international community knows we're not doing anything and if anything many Mousavi supporters want the US to say something about this.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 17, 2009)

If anything were the most convieniet scapegoat for them to pin their problems at while avoiding the finger getting pointed at the government.

In addition to being a troll and a douche, Mahmoud's economic policies make Dubya smart by comparison.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 17, 2009)

They're blaming twitter, youtube and facebook as American conspiracy


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Of course Iran is going to try and blame us...that's what they do best.  The only problem is that most of the international community knows we're not doing anything and if anything many Mousavi supporters want the US to say something about this.



I do not think we are to blame for much of what has happened, but our media was responsible for misleading the voters as to Mousavi's popularity. 

We basically took the opinions of young, university-going, and affluent Iranians and extrapolated their opinions over the entire country. By incorrectly doing this, we gave all the tech-savvy Iranians who Twitter, read ABC News, etc. a false sense of his chances of winning. We projected an Obama on to Mousavi, and the votes simply weren't there. And we did this despite legitimate polling showing the contrary. It's simply another stake in the coffin of the "media's job is to inform" myth, and now they're trying to blame fraud for their own flawed analyses.

They had no solid proof that Mousavi ever had a chance in that election, but reported just the opposite. Now they have no solid proof that he was defrauded out of a victory, but again run with stories without statistical data or other proof.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 17, 2009)

In that case Shini, if Mahmoud's election was legit, why are paramilitary militias opening fire on protestors?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2009)

Kagekatsu said:


> In that case Shini, if Mahmoud's election was legit, why are paramilitary militias opening fire on protestors?



Because they're rioting? 

I am not an Iranian riot policeman, and neither are you. And frankly, riot police shooting at protestors has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the election. 

I'm sorry, but you've been punk'd by the media. Read and believe everything they write, and become a tool.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 17, 2009)

Actually shinigami, most sites gave the previous president a 2 to 1 lead before the elections..already stating that the contender had an uphill climb, and the goverment as well had said that they would deal with the result accordingly either way. The "western media" has nothing to do with preconceived notions about this voting, the iranians who are out there demonstrating their own want for change, are the ones who put down their own votes who didn't get what they elected for, and blaming their ire on "western media" devalues everything they're doing right now.


----------



## ninjaneko (Jun 17, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Lolly
> 
> Possible death penalties ahoy!





> We warn the few elements *controlled by foreigners* who try to disrupt domestic security by inciting individuals to destroy and to commit arson that the Islamic penal code for such individuals waging war against God is execution," Habibi said.


Of course. Undesirables always are, aren't they?  

(Not that they don't have reason for developing an attitude of suspicion of foreign meddling, but it's seems to have become just a political tactic.)


Hollie said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Can I just ask? Why are these signs in _English_?


----------



## Shinigami Perv (Jun 17, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> Actually shinigami, most sites gave the previous president a 2 to 1 lead before the elections..already stating that the contender had an uphill climb, and the goverment as well had said that they would deal with the result accordingly either way. The "western media" has nothing to do with preconceived notions about this voting, the iranians who are out there demonstrating their own want for change, are the ones who put down their own votes who didn't get what they elected for, and blaming their ire on "western media" devalues everything they're doing right now.



I believe that was addressed in those articles: the other polls were taken of mostly university students and affluent Iranians. They were flawed beyond all legitimacy.

The western media did have something to do with it. They also did the same thing to John Kerry: hype and then he gets blown away. They're terrible at predicting and analyzing elections. They always discount the conservative candidate in favor of the liberal, and especially those they view as revolutionary or reformers. Conservatives are hard to beat because old people tend to vote, and rural areas are usually overwhelmingly conservative.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Shinigami_Perv91 said:


> I believe that was addressed in those articles: the other polls were taken of mostly university students and affluent Iranians. They were flawed beyond all legitimacy.
> 
> The western media did have something to do with it. *They also did the same thing to John Kerry: hype and then he gets blown away.* They're terrible at predicting and analyzing elections. They always discount the conservative candidate in favor of the liberal, and especially those they view as revolutionary or reformers. Conservatives are hard to beat because old people tend to vote, and rural areas are usually overwhelmingly conservative.



John Kerry didn't get blown away.  It was 51% to 49% or something close like that.

I still don't buy the polls nor do I buy that he won so overwhelmingly.  It has nothing to do with the media, but just knowing how shady the theocracy there is.  I mean...blaming Western nations already?

Have they no shame?  Oh and if the Iranian soccer team players, Mousavi, Khatami, Rafsjhani (sp?), and Grand Ayatollah Montazeri are calling BS on the elections, then maybe something is actually up.



> Ahmadinejad, who has dismissed the unrest as little more than “passions after a soccer match,” returned to Tehran on Wednesday after attending a summit meeting in Russia that was delayed a day by the unrest. He held a cabinet meeting and went on state television to insist that the people had voted for his “policies of justice.”



Oh Mahmoud sure is concerned about his people all right.  I say...how about that unemployment rate or the skyrocketing inflation that was going down before the recession?

I'm not buying his crap.  The man is already a Holocaust denier.


----------



## Nemesis (Jun 17, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> arya-aiedail
> 
> I knew it all along.



Hey that kid does not represent us Yankee supporters.  You Red Sox fans planted that to make us look bad  .  I see Chaos is getting to you Maelstrom and it saddens me 

Anyway serious now.

It would seem that the unrest is spreading now.  Personally I thought the Supreme Leader and his ilk would have done their crackdown by now in a Tienanmen Square scenario.  Glad I am wrong about it for now even though there have been some deaths sadly.  

Don't get me wrong I am no fan of either candidate.  Both are complete assholes but if this is the start of something (even if it takes a long time) that brings down the Mullahs then I support it.

Though the Son of the Former Shah earlier came out in support of the protests.  Really I think the people in Iran would rather not have his help right now considering his families history in the country.


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 17, 2009)

Finally the Internet just came back on here. Don't know how much longer it will stay on. Its very sporadic. Anyway its getting alot worse here in Esfahan. I can only imagine how bad it is in Tehran. There is talk of high ranking mullahs turning on each other. More and more political figures are joining Mousavi. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing. I hear Khamenei is threatening to execute them for treason.



ninjaneko said:


> Can I just ask? Why are these signs in _English_?



Uhmmm... because we speak English too? Most young Iranians are trilingual. I also speak German btw. 

And also because the international media can better understand it. And right now we really need the international media on our side. Pray for us. This is by far the biggest revolt in my lifetime. I sincerly hope the mullahs are overthrown but tbh, I'll be satisfied if we just get rid of crazy Mahmoud.

I will update if anything else happens here but the real action is in Tehran. I'm so glad the world is finally hearing us.


----------



## Uli (Jun 17, 2009)

turns out the pro-Ahmadinejad rally  was Photoshopped to make it look larger. 

Election theft memo from Iran Interior Ministry




> Election theft memo from Iran Interior Ministry (Authenticity NOT VERIFIED) #iranelection by andisheh.
> I have no idea if this is an authentic document.
> 
> If it is, it is a June 13, 2009 (Persian calendar 23 Khordad 1388)
> ...



Source

More...



			
				http://www.guardian.co.uk said:
			
		

> The man who leaked the real election results from the Interior Ministry - the ones showing Ahmadinejad coming third - was killed in a suspicious car accident, according to unconfirmed reports, writes Saeed Kamali Dehghan in Tehran.
> 
> Mohammad Asgari, who was responsible for the security of the IT network in Iran's interior ministry, was killed yesterday in Tehran.
> 
> ...



Source


----------



## Vom Osten (Jun 17, 2009)

In order for the revolution to go anywhere, the army would need to turn against the ruling elite; but that won't happen as they have already attacked and killed protestors.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Galizien said:


> In order for the revolution to go anywhere, the army would need to turn against the ruling elite; but that won't happen as they have already attacked and killed protestors.



Actually just the Basij, the Revolutionary Guard.  They're not the military proper.


----------



## TDM (Jun 17, 2009)

Galizien said:


> In order for the revolution to go anywhere, the army would need to turn against the ruling elite; but that won't happen as they have already attacked and killed protestors.


Well, it's not like they're doing it for fun or because they're ideologically hard-wired to oppose Democracy. Just because they've attacked the protesters doesn't mean they won't (can't, rather) change sides at some point.

It's awfully optimistic, though.


----------



## Vom Osten (Jun 17, 2009)

> JUST after Iran’s rigged elections last week, with hundreds of thousands of protesters taking to the streets, it looked as if a new revolution was in the offing. Five days later, the uprising is little more than a symbolic protest, crushed by the elite Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. Meanwhile, the real revolution has gone unnoticed: the guard has effected a silent coup d’état.
> 
> The seeds of this coup were planted four years ago with the election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. And while he has since disappointed his public, failing to deliver on promised economic and political reforms, his allies now control the country. In the most dramatic turnabout since the 1979 revolution, Iran has evolved from theocratic state to military dictatorship.
> 
> ...



Interesting OP-ED piece from the New York Times


----------



## Nemesis (Jun 17, 2009)

Uli said:


> turns out the pro-Ahmadinejad rally  was Photoshopped to make it look larger.



HAhahaha oh man is there anything the Mullah's won't photoshop.


----------



## Elim Rawne (Jun 17, 2009)

Uli said:


> turns out the pro-Ahmadinejad rally  was Photoshopped to make it look larger.
> 
> Election theft memo from Iran Interior Ministry
> 
> ...



looks like they recently discovered photoshop


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 17, 2009)

Nemesis said:


> HAhahaha oh man is there anything the Mullah's won't photoshop.





Nope.


----------



## Kagekatsu (Jun 17, 2009)

Mega's here, which only means Lezard is bound to come.


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

Megaharrison said:


> Nope.



Even your assassin hornets?



Kagekatsu said:


> Mega's here, which only means Lezard is bound to come.



I can hardly wait.


----------



## sikvod00 (Jun 17, 2009)

Damn, these Iranian protesters are hardcore AND lazy. They chop off the hands of the Mythical Green People just so they can do the 'V' for victory sign (that's what the hand signal is, right?)


----------



## Mael (Jun 17, 2009)

sikvod00 said:


> Damn, these Iranian protesters are hardcore AND lazy. They chop off the hands of the Mythical Green People just so they can do the 'V' for victory sign (that's what the hand signal is, right?)



They need...

*HULK HANDS!!!*


----------



## ninjaneko (Jun 18, 2009)

Cyrizian said:


> Finally the Internet just came back on here. Don't know how much longer it will stay on. Its very sporadic. Anyway its getting alot worse here in Esfahan. I can only imagine how bad it is in Tehran. There is talk of high ranking mullahs turning on each other. More and more political figures are joining Mousavi. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing. I hear Khamenei is threatening to execute them for treason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just thought they'd use Farsi since it's in Iran. But that makes sense.  
(You live in Esfahan? I have family there.)


----------



## Mael (Jun 18, 2009)

Some updates:



> TEHRAN (Reuters) - Two children of former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a political opponent of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have been barred from leaving Iran, the semi-official Fars News Agency said Thursday.
> 
> Rafsanjani's daughter Faezeh addressed supporters of defeated presidential candidate Mirhossein Mousavi Tuesday when they gathered near the state television building in Tehran in defiance of a ban on opposition protests.
> 
> ...



Ruud Van Nistelrooy: Dutch Stars Should Leave Real Madrid

Ah the ol' barring of opponent's family from freedom of movement.  Classic.



> TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian opposition politician Ebrahim Yazdi has been arrested while in hospital, an ally said on Thursday, the latest in dozens of detentions of pro-reformers since last week's disputed presidential election.
> 
> The ally, a member of the Freedom Movement, said Yazdi was taken away by security agents on Wednesday while he was in a Tehran hospital undergoing medical checks for stomach problems.
> 
> ...



Ruud Van Nistelrooy: Dutch Stars Should Leave Real Madrid

And while we're at it...why not arrest opposition figures to truly show how legit your hold on Iran is a la Hugo Chavez? 



> TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Intelligence Ministry said on Thursday it had uncovered a foreign-linked terrorist plot to plant bombs in mosques and other crowded places in Tehran during the country's June 12 presidential election.
> 
> State broadcaster IRIB quoted a ministry statement as saying several terrorist groups had been discovered, adding they were linked to Iran's foreign enemies, including Israel.
> 
> ...


----------



## Z.:M:.Z (Jun 18, 2009)

Wow, not surprised.


----------



## Megaharrison (Jun 18, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> State broadcaster IRIB quoted a ministry statement as saying several terrorist groups had been discovered, adding they were linked to Iran's foreign enemies, including Israel.



I wondered how long until they did that. Me and a few of my army friends had a pool on it. 

Took longer then I thought, I'm out $5


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 18, 2009)

HAH! So we weren't reacting as planned to them so they had to set out their own self imposed evidence in order to sway the people..that's great...now to wait until they directly accuse us of doing such a thing.


----------



## ninjaneko (Jun 18, 2009)

Ah, finger pointing. Yes it's those other foreign evil peoples that are trying to hurt the country! Now don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain... Look that way over there. Yes that's it... Does anyone in Iran actually buy that?


----------



## Mael (Jun 18, 2009)

ninjaneko said:


> Ah, finger pointing. Yes it's those other foreign evil peoples that are trying to hurt the country! Now don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain... Look that way over there. Yes that's it... *Does anyone in Iran actually buy that?*



I can think of a few (and not just in Iran)...

Islamic Republic of Oz.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 18, 2009)

Many prosper from anti Americanism, or just anti western sentiments, its like a backup plan...


----------



## Cyrizian (Jun 18, 2009)

ninjaneko said:


> Ah, finger pointing. Yes it's those other foreign evil peoples that are trying to hurt the country! Now don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain... Look that way over there. Yes that's it... Does anyone in Iran actually buy that?



Unfortunately, distraction politics has worked extremely well on us. While Bush was President, Mahmoud and Co. would just point their finger at him and say "we are protecting you from him so stop complaining." And we bought it. But Bush never attacked us or our nuclear refineries and it doesn't look like President Obama will either. I think people are finally starting to see Khamenei and Mahmoud for the distractors they are. 

I don't hope for much out of these protests but I am starting to believe that Khamenei is in deep shit with the other mullahs. And this could possibly mean his days are numbered as "Supreme Guide". I can't tell you how much I have wanted to see his downfall.


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

couple videos. 

mob chases away police blockade. 
Seinfeld 

woman who is shot in the chest bleeds out and dies. pretty graphic. 
Seinfeld


----------



## fieryfalcon (Jun 22, 2009)

Everyone should watch those videos to see how totalitarianism operates.  Those monsters cannot be reasoned with, they can only be defeated.


----------



## dreams lie (Jun 22, 2009)

ninjaneko said:


> Ah, finger pointing. Yes it's those other foreign evil peoples that are trying to hurt the country! Now don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain... Look that way over there. Yes that's it... Does anyone in Iran actually buy that?



Nationalism has led to more foolish behavior before.


----------



## Mael (Jun 22, 2009)

fieryfalcon said:


> Everyone should watch those videos to see how totalitarianism operates.  *Those monsters cannot be reasoned with, they can only be defeated*.



Because another war is just what we need.

The Iranians are Terminators?


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Tehran is saying they're going to put an end to protests pretty soon, violently if necessary. More and more major planned protest sites are being occupied by armed police forces, and the protesters aren't showing up. 

Well, I guess this proves once again if you disarm the civilian public, and allow weapons only to suicidally blind supporters, then you really don't have to worry about being toppled.


----------



## dreams lie (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> Tehran is saying they're going to put an end to protests pretty soon, violently if necessary. More and more major planned protest sites are being occupied by armed police forces, and the protesters aren't showing up.
> 
> Well, I guess this proves once again if you disarm the civilian public, and allow weapons only to suicidally blind supporters, then you really don't have to worry about being toppled.



No, clearly, the right to bear arms is only for the militia!  The police will _always_ be there to save us from the criminals.  And what you ask will save us from the police?  Why, Obama, of course.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> Tehran is saying they're going to put an end to protests pretty soon, violently if necessary. More and more major planned protest sites are being occupied by armed police forces, and the protesters aren't showing up.
> 
> Well, I guess this proves once again if you disarm the civilian public, and allow weapons only to suicidally blind supporters, then you really don't have to worry about being toppled.



So if every Iranian had a gun, everyone would just live happily ever after in a democracy after the evil Ayatollah is overthrown? The army supports the Mullahs, and, impressive as they may be, those supporting Mousavi are a _minority_ in the country. If all Iranians were armed, then there'd simply be a larger bloodbath.

Shame on you for using this situation as a springboard to bring in the entirely different issue of gun control into the thread.


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> So if every Iranian had a gun, everyone would just live happily ever after in a democracy after the evil Ayatollah is overthrown? The army supports the Mullahs, and, impressive as they may be, those supporting Mousavi are a _minority_ in the country. If all Iranians were armed, then there'd simply be a larger bloodbath.
> 
> Shame on you for using this situation as a springboard to bring in the entirely different issue of gun control into the thread.


 We are not to be expected to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed. - Thomas Jefferson. 

I quote Jefferson because he was actually on the forefront of a very bloody, very costly, very uncertain war. This is a universal principle of actual change: it's violent and people die.  The real tragedy is when cowards exercise self-preservation, dooming all dying to vanity and and all living to entrenched subjugation.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> We are not to be expected to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed. - Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> I quote Jefferson because he was actually on the forefront of a very bloody, very costly, very uncertain war. This is a universal principle of actual change: it's violent and people die.  The real tragedy is when cowards exercise self-preservation, dooming all dying to vanity and and all living to entrenched subjugation.



Gandhi and MLK disagree with you - it is possible to enact change without resorting to violence. I agree that in some cases it is necessary, but in this particular situation, if the protesting public had access to guns, what do you think would have happened by now?

After Neda or another innocent was shot, a bereaved and grief-stricken member of the family would have fired at a member of the Basij, and BAM! instant justification to bring in the army and committ a wholesale slaughter of the opposition.

Widespread guns would have made things worse, Sim, surely you can see that?


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Gandhi and MLK disagree with you - it is possible to enact change without resorting to violence. I agree that in some cases it is necessary, but in this particular situation, if the protesting public had access to guns, what do you think would have happened by now?
> 
> After Neda or another innocent was shot, a bereaved and grief-stricken member of the family would have fired at a member of the Basij, and BAM! instant justification to bring in the army and committ a wholesale slaughter of the opposition.
> 
> Widespread guns would have made things worse, Sim, surely you can see that?


 Things need to get worse if they are to get better. You can't have surgery without getting cut open. Leaving despots in command under the pretense of keeping the peace is as stupid as refraining from having a tumor surgically removed because you want to maintain your health. There is no hope for a soft revolution when the opposition is protesting against the grand wizard or whoever it is that takes the unelected position of highest authority in Iran, who himself is almost certainly the source of the election scandal being protested. Don't try to drag this into a false debate about whether or not people _could_ get hurt when people _are already getting shot_ just for being at protests against this ridiculous "election."


----------



## sadated_peon (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> We are not to be expected to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed. - Thomas Jefferson.
> 
> I quote Jefferson because he was actually on the forefront of a very bloody, very costly, very uncertain war. This is a universal principle of actual change: it's violent and people die.  The real tragedy is when cowards exercise self-preservation, dooming all dying to vanity and and all living to entrenched subjugation.



Not to derail this too much, but you believe hand guns and automatic weapons in the hands of the people are going to be able to defeat the US military?

I mean if your saying that we need guns to protect us from the government, then you are going to need a lot more then guns to protect us from our government.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> Things need to get worse if they are to get better. You can't have surgery without getting cut open. Leaving despots in command under the pretense of keeping the peace is as stupid as refraining from having a tumor surgically removed because you want to maintain your health. There is no hope for a soft revolution when the opposition is protesting against the grand wizard or whoever it is that takes the unelected position of highest authority in Iran, who himself is almost certainly the source of the election scandal being protested. Don't try to drag this into a false debate about whether or not people _could_ get hurt when people _are already getting shot_ just for being at protests against this ridiculous "election.



I _know_ people are already being shot and killed, but what you've proposed would turn a relatively few minor incidents into a full-blown bloodbath and the effective destruction of _all_ opposition to the Ayatollah.

It's unlikely that a soft revolution will take place as a result of these protests. But if there were guns involved and in the hands of the family of Neda and the others who have died, you'd be looking at something far worse than a failed peaceful protest. The Ayatollah and his cronies are already looking for an excuse to slaughter the opposition, as we can see with his whole "it shall be your fault if this ends with blood and violence" rhetoric, and if Neda's father, for instance, had had a gun nearby when his daughter died, and had shot at the Basij, we would now be seeing Khameini call in the army and at the very least hundreds of deaths and arrests as he uses this as an opportunity to destroy _all_ the groups aiming for reform.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> I _know_ people are already being shot at, but what you've proposed would turn a relatively few minor incidents into a full-blown bloodbath and the effective destruction of _all_ opposition to the Ayatollah.
> 
> It's unlikely that a soft revolution will take place as a result of these protests. But if there were guns involved and in the hands of the family of Neda and the others who have died, you'd be looking at something far worse than a failed peaceful protest. The Ayatollah and his cronies are already looking for an excuse to slaughter the opposition, as we can see with his whole "it shall be your fault if this ends with blood and violence" rhetoric, and if Neda's father, for instance, had had a gun nearby when his daughter died, and had shot at the Basij, we would now be seeing Khameini call in the army and at the very least hundreds of deaths and arrests as he uses this as an opportunity to destroy _all_ the groups aiming for reform.



Still aint worse than Tiananmen square tho, at that time the goverment crackdown was almost immediate, and they didn't even try to hide the guns then.


----------



## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Not to derail this too much, but you believe hand guns and automatic weapons in the hands of the people are going to be able to defeat the US military?
> 
> I mean if your saying that we need guns to protect us from the government, then you are going to need a lot more then guns to protect us from our government.


 Our government isn't nearly as bad as the loony Iranian regime, and their military is nowhere near on a level comparable to ours, so you can back your stupidity up right now. Keep this up and I'll just go back to ignoring your on a permanent basis. 



Watchman said:


> I _know_ people are already being shot and killed, but what you've proposed would turn a relatively few minor incidents into a full-blown bloodbath and the effective destruction of _all_ opposition to the Ayatollah.
> 
> It's unlikely that a soft revolution will take place as a result of these protests. But if there were guns involved and in the hands of the family of Neda and the others who have died, you'd be looking at something far worse than a failed peaceful protest. The Ayatollah and his cronies are already looking for an excuse to slaughter the opposition, as we can see with his whole "it shall be your fault if this ends with blood and violence" rhetoric, and if Neda's father, for instance, had had a gun nearby when his daughter died, and had shot at the Basij, we would now be seeing Khameini call in the army and at the very least hundreds of deaths and arrests as he uses this as an opportunity to destroy _all_ the groups aiming for reform.


 What good is an opposing body if they don't do anything? You're being childish. You may be of the opinion that it's better to live on your knees, but not everyone is. The craziest thing about this is that the Iranian presidency has no real power, the only people capable of running in the general election are hand-picked by the great wizard, the "reformist" was actually the president at the time when Iran began its nuclear program, but even so the people can't be allowed to voice their opinion via an election which is symbolic at best. With the rampant unemployment, ridiculous inflation rates, and general incompetence of managing the revenue taken in by a government-controlled oil industry, this protest is not just about the election but the entire way that the national government is run. 

And in case you haven't been paying attention, these are not peaceful protests, police blockades have been overrun, property is being destroyed, protesters are using what weapons they can, mostly clubs and homemade firebombs. They tried to burn down a government building which is what caused seven deaths from a basiij reprisal a few days ago. People want a change, and not a change that's merely empty rhetoric turned advertising trademark, I mean they want actual change.


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## Watchman (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> What good is an opposing body if they don't do anything? You're being childish. You may be of the opinion that it's better to live on your knees, but not everyone is.



I'm not of that opinion at all. But there is a time and a place for attempting stunts like this. If Gandhi had come along a century earlier, he'd have most likely been shot by the British in India, the same with MLK if he'd been around in the 1860's rather than the 1960's. These protests are most likely going to fail to cause change, but the ham-fisted attempts of Khameini to keep control are going to inspire more disaffection with the regime, and in a few decades, then there will most likely be more success in democratising and reforming Iran. Compare that to, decades from now, an Iran that has crushed all efforts at reform and ended up as the North Korea of the Middle East. Surely you can see that "death before compromise" is _not_ always the best option, and sometimes, it just takes time for these things to work?



> And in case you haven't been paying attention, these are not peaceful protests, police blockades have been overrun, property is being destroyed, protesters are using what weapons they can, mostly clubs and homemade firebombs. They tried to burn down a government building which is what caused seven deaths from a basiij reprisal a few days ago.



You're right, I should have said a _mostly_-peaceful protest. Regardless, how would your scenario, which would inevitably end up in a civilian rebellion against a despot with control of the army, be any better? How likely do you think that your scenario would be to get Iran to change to a relatively free democracy, instead of regressing to an even more brutal totalitarian regime?



> People want a change, and not a change that's merely empty rhetoric turned advertising trademark, I mean they want actual change.



FFS, you couldn't resist bringing in a slur against Obama, could you?


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## sadated_peon (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:
			
		

> Our government isn't nearly as bad as the loony Iranian regime, and their military is nowhere near on a level comparable to ours, so you can back your stupidity up right now. Keep this up and I'll just go back to ignoring your on a permanent basis.


I didn't mean to imply that this is a reason why Iranians shouldn't be armed, or that it wouldn't help them. I think it would help them fight back. 

The comment was only that the generic nature of the statements seem to me that your implying that this was the reason for the US to be armed.


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## Cyrizian (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> I _know_ people are already being shot and killed, but what you've proposed would turn a relatively few minor incidents into a full-blown bloodbath and the effective destruction of _all_ opposition to the Ayatollah.
> 
> It's unlikely that a soft revolution will take place as a result of these protests. But if there were guns involved and in the hands of the family of Neda and the others who have died, you'd be looking at something far worse than a failed peaceful protest. The Ayatollah and his cronies are already looking for an excuse to slaughter the opposition, as we can see with his whole "it shall be your fault if this ends with blood and violence" rhetoric, and if Neda's father, for instance, had had a gun nearby when his daughter died, and had shot at the Basij, we would now be seeing Khameini call in the army and at the very least hundreds of deaths and arrests as he uses this as an opportunity to destroy _all_ the groups aiming for reform.



You and Simulacrum are having a very interesting debate. I actually agree with both of you but being in this violent situation myself, I have to say I would feel alot safer with a gun of some kind. Innocent bystanders are getting killed so its best to have some kind of defense. And if I'm going down, I want to take a few mullahs with me. I think Khamenei is going "all out" on us so I think we should go "all out" on him and his cronies. These mullahs only understand force unfortunately. There is no peaceful way for this to get resolved. There is already blood in the streets.


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## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> I'm not of that opinion at all. But there is a time and a place for attempting stunts like this. If Gandhi had come along a century earlier, he'd have most likely been shot by the British in India, the same with MLK if he'd been around in the 1860's rather than the 1960's. These protests are most likely going to fail to cause change, but the ham-fisted attempts of Khameini to keep control are going to inspire more disaffection with the regime, and in a few decades, then there will most likely be more success in democratising and reforming Iran. Compare that to, decades from now, an Iran that has crushed all efforts at reform and ended up as the North Korea of the Middle East. Surely you can see that "death before compromise" is _not_ always the best option, and sometimes, it just takes time for these things to work?


 When one group of the same population is used against another group, it tends to cause disaffection among the group that the establishment controls which would strike directly at the strength of the great wizard. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard are tied to the mullah out of political convenience, and have been gathering an increasing share of political power. It'll come down to a fight for control eventually since Iran is more than slightly rich in fossil fuels - fighting over oil is how a lot of dictators rise to power in the ME. What you propose, having the great wizard slowly peeled away while the people are in no position to empower themselves, would most likely lead to the Iranian theocracy eventually turning into a military dictatorship. The current Iranian regime has only been around since 1979, it's not like they have a lot of history and tradition to uphold, and change is going to come one way or another. You might think that you don't favor living on your knees, but your naivety would get you exactly that. I'm only too happy that our country was founded when people were willing to risk it all rather than try to calculate gradual shifts of a political landscape in which they had no control. 



> You're right, I should have said a _mostly_-peaceful protest. Regardless, how would your scenario, which would inevitably end up in a civilian rebellion against a despot with control of the army, be any better? How likely do you think that your scenario would be to get Iran to change to a relatively free democracy, instead of regressing to an even more brutal totalitarian regime?


 By exposing themselves in a violent suppression, Iran would open the door to foreign intervention with a group of natives already actively trying to overthrow certain government figures. It would be like after we kicked Saddam out of Kuwait when we should have helped the people who were actively trying to overthrow his rule. The reason we had such a tough time in recent years is because we sat on our hands while Saddam killed them all. 



> FFS, you couldn't resist bringing in a slur against Obama, could you?


 Shoe fits, friend.


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## Watchman (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> When one group of the same population is used against another group, it tends to cause disaffection among the group that the establishment controls which would strike directly at the strength of the great wizard.



Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you call him the "great wizard"? Because I now have this image of Rincewind wearing a turban under his wizzard's hat stuck in my mind thanks to that. 



> The Iranian Revolutionary Guard are tied to the mullah out of political convenience, and have been gathering an increasing share of political power. It'll come down to a fight for control eventually since Iran is more than slightly rich in fossil fuels - fighting over oil is how a lot of dictators rise to power in the ME. What you propose, having the great wizard slowly peeled away while the people are in no position to empower themselves, would most likely lead to the Iranian theocracy eventually turning into a military dictatorship.



Wrong, because the people would be empowering themselves. It's a "boiling frog" thing - dump a frog in boiling water and it leaps out - place it in water and then boil it and it won't. Sudden change brings about fierce reactionism, just look at Russia throughout its history for examples of this. Gradual taking of power will strengthen the reformers, (most likely - obviously I can't predict that they _would_ do this, but if they had any sense they would).



> By exposing themselves in a violent suppression, Iran would open the door to foreign intervention with a group of natives already actively trying to overthrow certain government figures. It would be like after we kicked Saddam out of Kuwait when we should have helped the people who were actively trying to overthrow his rule.



At present, do you really think that the USA and NATO are likely to go into Iran to militarily support the reformists there?


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## dreams lie (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Gandhi and MLK disagree with you - it is possible to enact change without resorting to violence. I agree that in some cases it is necessary, but in this particular situation, if the protesting public had access to guns, what do you think would have happened by now?



Poor example.  Gandhi was dealing with the United Kingdom and MLK was dealing with the United States.  Both countries were actual democracies that (at least occasionally) gave half a damn what the people want.  Iran is more or less a dictatorship.  The protests right now is far more likely to end up another Tiananmen Square than anything.  The example that best portrays the situation right now is China 1989.  The West will boost the hopes of a nonviolent revolution right before the bloodbath.


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## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you call him the "great wizard"? Because I now have this image of Rincewind wearing a turban under his wizzard's hat stuck in my mind thanks to that.


 Originally because I couldn't remember what they call him, and now I think it's funny. 



> Wrong, because the people would be empowering themselves. It's a "boiling frog" thing - dump a frog in boiling water and it leaps out - place it in water and then boil it and it won't. Sudden change brings about fierce reactionism, just look at Russia throughout its history for examples of this. Gradual taking of power will strengthen the reformers, (most likely - obviously I can't predict that they _would_ do this, but if they had any sense they would).


 The people have no power. They do not elect the wizards, and apparently they can't even elect figureheads that the wizards allow to run for prominent offices. This is on the same level as Saddam winning 95% or whatever of the "vote" when he was still around - do you really think the people of Iraq were going to topple him if they only had a few more decades of his nonsense going unchallenged in any significant way? And mind you, before Saddam took over, the Iraqi Baathist party actually took control of the country in a bloodless coup and that didn't do anything to stop a charismatic egomaniac with strong ties to the military from becoming "president" for life. There needs to be a real movement from the people for them to gain power in their political system. 



> At present, do you really think that the USA and NATO are likely to go into Iran to militarily support the reformists there?


 Depends on how it's done. Advertise that this is a homegrown thing (2 million at a single protest can't be all foreign devil puppets), cut a deal with the military where they control most of the urban areas while we temporarily provide security in rural areas, and the basiij are disarmed in regions where our forces are stationed (most if not all the killing being done is linked to basiij not the core INRG. there's a reason the wizard decided to airdrop Pals from the West Bank to do police work rather than using the INRG in certain areas). With the current political climate in Iran, barring widespread voting fraud as what just happened to cause the protests, they could elect an _actual_ reformist as opposed to a relative reformist compared to dinnerjacket.


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## Zabuzalives (Jun 22, 2009)

there are more factions and things at work simulacrum. Image is important too. If you want to harness more support. 

If the protestors would use arms and attack, this will give the Iranian government the excuses and justifications they need to crack down or explain away the violent repercussions.  

It also shifts the image from innocent peaceful protestors to a armed faction vying for power. And the government from butchering tyrant to fighting rebels. 

this in turn has a huge impact on the level of support the initial group gets (and the government gets) and outrage caused by government action.  


whether an armed resistance or a unarmed resistance is more aapropiate depends on circumstances. 

I feel however that the iranian protesters starting armed attacks on the government is playing exactly into their hands. It gives them an excuse and they can put them aside as violent rebels trying to undermine Iran. 


Ofcourse you can switch to an armed conflict after a while. When you established your moral superiority. painted your image.


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## Simulacrum (Jun 22, 2009)

Zabuzalives said:


> there are more factions and things at work simulacrum. Image is important too. If you want to harness more support.
> 
> If the protestors would use arms and attack, this will give the Iranian government the excuses and justifications they need to crack down or explain away the violent repercussions.
> 
> ...


 Only other totalitarian regimes - NK, Venezuela, those crackpots in Gaza/West Bank - have any love for the Iranian government. Any native group that opposes the wizard would be favored by default, which is what makes a military takeover likely if foreign intervention is barred. They will be the power that rapidly suppresses an unarmed insurrection (without time to act there won't be anything anyone can do), they're on the rise while the wizard is on the way down, and they will be in place to kick the wizard out once his (un)popularity reaches the tipping point (which could be decades from now). The most likely way to avert this is a drawn out civil war that causes foreign interests to intervene and reconcile the military and the people while the wizard gets the short end of the stick and is blamed as the cause of everything (which he is). 

Of course, Iran will maintain an anti-West, particularly anti-US/Israel, position but gradual change for the better probably won't happen if the military is allowed a wholesale takeover. And of course this is impossible to begin with because the Iranian public is disarmed: keeping the public unable to fight is the first step to maintaining power.


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## Zabuzalives (Jun 22, 2009)

Simulacrum said:


> Only other totalitarian regimes - NK, Venezuela, those crackpots in Gaza/West Bank - have any love for the Iranian government. Any native group that opposes the wizard would be favored by default, which is what makes a military takeover likely if foreign intervention is barred. They will be the power that rapidly suppresses an unarmed insurrection (without time to act there won't be anything anyone can do), they're on the rise while the wizard is on the way down, and they will be in place to kick the wizard out once his (un)popularity reaches the tipping point (which could be decades from now). The most likely way to avert this is a drawn out civil war that causes foreign interests to intervene and reconcile the military and the people while the wizard gets the short end of the stick and is blamed as the cause of everything (which he is).
> 
> Of course, Iran will maintain an anti-West, particularly anti-US/Israel, position but gradual change for the better probably won't happen if the military is allowed a wholesale takeover. And of course this is impossible to begin with because the Iranian public is disarmed: keeping the public unable to fight is the first step to maintaining power.




Grabbing for weapons at an early time will mean they lose (or will not built up) a lot of public support and goodwill. They go from innocent martyrs to a rebel faction. 

That gives Iran an excuse to crack down hard. While the silent majority in Iran would not be inclined to help. 

Hell if the west doesnt even intervenes in straight out genocides it sure is not gonna help some rebel faction in iran after the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would also just be more fuel on the fire for those thinking theres a war on islam.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 23, 2009)

I frankly think we got lucky, Iran tearing itself apart works in our favor if they oust that asshole idiot they called a leader. Not only that, it seems to have quelled things in Pakistan some, or it at least seems that way when I look for what's happening there. Either that or the news is ignoring it.


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## sadated_peon (Jun 23, 2009)

So, I was watching daily show yesterday and they had Mir Hossein Mousavi (Iranian opposition leader)in an interview from before the election. 

At that point I realized that this was the first time I had seen an interview with guy, and felt bummed that I was so out of it before the election that I didn't catch cnn, msnbc, fox, bbc interviewing this guy. 

So I searched, and I couldn't find any videos of the major new outlets interviewing this guy. 

Please help me save what little respect I have for the western media and show(link, youtube, etc) me that the "fake news" doesn't have the only televised interview with this guy.


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## Mael (Jun 23, 2009)

The Iranians courts are ruling out another annulment.

I have the sad feeling they can protest all they want but they're still going to have Mahmoud Immadinnerjacket up on the podium no matter what.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 23, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> So, I was watching daily show yesterday and they had Mir Hossein Mousavi (Iranian opposition leader)in an interview from before the election.
> 
> At that point I realized that this was the first time I had seen an interview with guy, and felt bummed that I was so out of it before the election that I didn't catch cnn, msnbc, fox, bbc interviewing this guy.
> 
> ...



You do realize Western Media is banned from over there, right? 

How the fuck would we interview him?


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## sadated_peon (Jun 23, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You do realize Western Media is banned from over there, right?
> 
> How the fuck would we interview him?


Daily show, a fake news comedy show was able. 

Maybe the major news networks could as comedy central.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 23, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Daily show, a fake news comedy show was able.
> 
> Maybe the major news networks could as comedy central.



I think they got it before the ban.


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## Camille (Jun 23, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I think they got it before the ban.



Two weeks before. CNN could have interviewed these people easily way before that. News channels in the US have an incredibly low level of curiosity about things that don't involve the President eating a burger or killing a fly.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 23, 2009)

Camille said:


> Two weeks before. CNN could have interviewed these people easily way before that. News channels in the US have an incredibly low level of curiosity about things that don't involve the President eating a burger or killing a fly.



Here's the difference? We shouldn't care about Iran really. They're not even the threat people made them out to be.


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 23, 2009)

Camille said:


> Two weeks before. CNN could have interviewed these people easily way before that. News channels in the US have an incredibly low level of curiosity about things that don't involve the President eating a burger or killing a fly.



Wow really? I could have sworn Iran & Obama's healthcare reform plan was splattered all over the news day in day out 


@Knight - Wrong. They're instrumental with events in the entire region including Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and basically all the places we're involved in. Any overture by that goverment will inevitably have an effect on things there.


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## Camille (Jun 23, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> Wow really? I could have sworn Iran & Obama's healthcare reform plan was splattered all over the news day in day out



I apologize. My knowledge on what the US media reports on is limited to what I see occasionally on their websites and what I see the international media talk about which news make it big in the US 

I blame it on the fact that I don't live in the US


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 23, 2009)

Inuhanyou said:


> Wow really? I could have sworn Iran & Obama's healthcare reform plan was splattered all over the news day in day out
> 
> 
> @Knight - Wrong. They're instrumental with events in the entire region including Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, and basically all the places we're involved in. Any overture by that goverment will inevitably have an effect on things there.



They're not a thread doesn't mean they're not instrumental. 

Iran's a fucking joke.


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 23, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They're not a thread doesn't mean they're not instrumental.
> 
> Iran's a fucking joke.



They may be insignificant on they're own, but they're instrumental in promoting the destabilization of the entire region if they want based on the regimes contacts there, who they sell arms to, and what they want to influence. Its something we have to tread carefully on. Its the same as the NK threatening an arms race in the region, no matter how insignificant they may seem.


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## Andy Dufresne (Jun 23, 2009)

Camille said:


> Two weeks before. CNN could have interviewed these people easily way before that. News channels in the US have an incredibly low level of curiosity about things that don't involve the President eating a burger or killing a fly.



Been living under a rock have we? The elections in Iran have been broadcasted  almost constantly, well before the thing even happened. The media hype about Iran right now is massive. Go to the CNN main page. It's nothing BUT Iran. 
The american public is being bombarded with this propaganda.


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## Inuhanyou (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy Dufresne said:


> Been living under a rock have we? The elections in Iran have been broadcasted  almost constantly, well before the thing even happened. The media hype about Iran right now is massive. Go to the CNN main page. It's nothing BUT Iran.
> The american public is being bombarded with this propaganda.



News bombardment is relative to importance, same with the BBC, the daily telegraph, and almost every other European network as well..especially considering the rapidly chilling tensions between the UK and Iran.


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## Camille (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy Dufresne said:


> Been living under a rock have we? The elections in Iran have been broadcasted  almost constantly, well before the thing even happened. The media hype about Iran right now is massive. Go to the CNN main page. It's nothing BUT Iran.
> The american public is being bombarded with this propaganda.



Hype? Propaganda? Okay 

My point was that, why is it so hard for your media to do reports like that of the Daily Show (and just how sad is it that a _fake newscast_ is doing this type of thing), simply because it's interesting? Local field reports are nice and all, but unless a shitstorm or a scandal hits, most of the 24-hour news channels don't give a damn about things going on outside the US. 

I'm just saying that I get the feeling your media is very self-centred, that's all.


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## Andy Dufresne (Jun 23, 2009)

It's not THAT important. How much attention has been given to other so called rigged elections in the past. How about Bush's rigged election in 2000? Maybe a few protestors here and there... not for long of course. 
And as for the iranian elections, they are so obviously not rigged. Why? There's no purpose in it. There are no millions of protestors. There are thousands. This isn't a revolution of any sorts. 
The people of Iran voted their puppet president Ahmadinejad back into power. And the youth (for the most part in tehran) is just being used, nothing else. It's one big tragedy. And the media is loving every second of it.


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## sadated_peon (Jun 23, 2009)

Andy Dufresne said:


> Been living under a rock have we? The elections in Iran have been broadcasted  almost constantly, well before the thing even happened. The media hype about Iran right now is massive. Go to the CNN main page. It's nothing BUT Iran.
> The american public is being bombarded with this propaganda.


Great, find me a CNN interview with the oppostion leader. Before or After the election, it doesn't matter to me.


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## Camille (Jun 24, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Great, find me a CNN interview with the oppostion leader. Before or After the election, it doesn't matter to me.



You phrased it better than I did


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## Watchman (Jun 24, 2009)

Posting this here because there are too many god-damned Iran threads, so I'm considering this the main one.



			
				Iran and Britain expel each other's diplomats said:
			
		

> The UK has ordered the expulsion of two Iranian diplomats in a tit-for-tat action after Tehran also ordered two UK diplomats to leave the country.
> 
> Prime Minister Gordon Brown told MPs he had no choice but to respond after Iran had made allegations that were "absolutely without foundation".
> 
> ...



Source


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## Camille (Jun 24, 2009)

Watchman said:


> Source



*sigh* I knew this was coming


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## Cyrizian (Jun 24, 2009)

*Takes a step back*

Well its been almost 2 weeks now. My country is falling apart and a civil war is brewing. 

But I couldn't possibly be happier!

The world is finally beginning to see the mullahs for what they are. The winds are changing. Iran will be free again soon. And so I say to the internet (and its wonderful anonymity): 

DEATH TO THE DAMN MULLAHS! DEATH TO KHAMENEI! AND DEATH TO THE "ISLAMIC REPUBLIC"! 

(Damn that felt good)


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## Simulacrum (Jun 24, 2009)

dunno if these stories have been posted yet. 

witnesses report clashes around parliament. "death to the dictator" or something close is becoming a popular slogan.  
Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN 

son's death has iranian family asking why. preliminary info suggests the slain man wasn't protesting, but got caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. then the government charged the family of deceased with the cost of the bullet that killed him when they went to claim his body. that disturbs me more than the video of watching the girl bleed all over herself 
Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN

edit: this is going to be as good a time as any to step in and remove the great wizard. the protesters want it but they simply lack of ability to do it, and if the wizard remains in power he's going to clamp down on opposition voices regardless of all else. this reminds me of the time after we kicked saddam out of kuwait and there was a popular uprising. we didn't do anything to help so the opposition was killed off, and when we came in 2003 people still remembered how the US backed off when they thought we would help so they took a long time to be convinced that we would actually stick to it. i'm sure this thing in iran won't be quite as bad as what happened in iraq back then, but protesters aren't waving around signs written in english because they want the UK's attention, and we're not going to get another chance like this for a long time.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jun 25, 2009)

sadated_peon said:


> Great, find me a CNN interview with the oppostion leader. Before or After the election, it doesn't matter to me.



Neither side is anyone we would support, the people over there took the guy we liked out of office and put the Ayatollah in, let them suffer for it.


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## sadated_peon (Jun 25, 2009)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Neither side is anyone we would support, the people over there took the guy we liked out of office and put the Ayatollah in, let them suffer for it.


"We" don't like him so "we" aren't going to interview him?!?!?!?

Are you kidding me? Are you trying to help or hurt the credibility of western media.


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## Mael (Jun 25, 2009)

Mahmoud wants an apology from Obama...


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## Tleilaxu (Jun 25, 2009)

LOL wut? we did not do ANYTHING that warrents an apology 

Iran is well and truely alone there is no meddling this time


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## Camille (Jun 25, 2009)

WalkingMaelstrom said:


> Mahmoud wants an apology from Obama...



lololololol

Aah, Ahmadinejad


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## Razgriez (Jun 25, 2009)

Camille said:


> Hype? Propaganda? Okay
> 
> My point was that, why is it so hard for your media to do reports like that of the Daily Show (and just how sad is it that a _fake newscast_ is doing this type of thing), simply because it's interesting? Local field reports are nice and all, but unless a shitstorm or a scandal hits, most of the 24-hour news channels don't give a damn about things going on outside the US.
> 
> I'm just saying that I get the feeling your media is very self-centred, that's all.



Well duuuuh! The world usually revolves around us anyways!


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## Camille (Jun 25, 2009)

Razgriez said:


> Well duuuuh! The world usually revolves around us anyways!



Not only the world. The whole universe too 

Ahmadinejad lashes out at Obama


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## Mael (Jun 25, 2009)

Camille said:


> Not only the world. The whole universe too
> 
> Ahmadinejad lashes out at Obama



Great...well that is a nice spit in the eye of the gesture Obama gave them at first.  Now this nuclear bit is going to get even uglier.


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## Watchman (Jun 25, 2009)

I for one am disappointed he's moved on from blaming Britain. Shame on you, Ahmadinejad, and here I thought Iran was trying to troll a _new_ audience.


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## Mael (Jun 25, 2009)

Watchman said:


> I for one am disappointed he's moved on from blaming Britain. Shame on you, Ahmadinejad, and here I thought Iran was trying to troll a _new_ audience.



Like Mark Teixeira with the Red Sox before he went with his original intention for the Yankees, he done gone and duped you all.

There will be no apology either Mahmoud.  Go fuck yourself.


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