# [SPOILER 696] Current Sasuke vs. Juubi Jin Madara



## Kai (Oct 16, 2014)

Which Indra transmigrant is King, once and for all? 

Location: VOTE
Distance: 50 meters
Mindset: Bloodlusted
Restrictions: None. Madara has both of his Rin'negan.


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## Klona (Oct 16, 2014)

Madara slays Sasuke like a bitch and plays with his body parts with Limbo. (PG version: Maddie plays tea party with Sauce's doll parts and his fellow Limbo friends)

If Sasuke was with Naruto, they might still stand a chance; they were already having a hard time with Kaguya, who had almost zero battle experience with somebody who can actually go against her.


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## Hachibi (Oct 16, 2014)

Like Sasuke stated, he is now basically a fusion between him and Naruto (albeit, he doesn't have the Bijuu's cooperation unlike Naruto) with more Bijuu Chakra.

Madara die, sadly.


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## Blu-ray (Oct 16, 2014)

Sasuke's at Rikudo's level. Mads is close but no cigar.

Naruto's seal is still required regardless of power though. Unless only the Bijuu and Rinnegan is necessary just like with releasing Mugen Tsukyomi, Sasuke won't have a means of putting Madz down.



Klona said:


> Madara slays Sasuke like a bitch and plays with his body parts with Limbo. (PG version: Maddie plays tea party with Sauce's doll parts and his fellow Limbo friends)
> 
> If Sasuke was with Naruto, they might still stand a chance; they were already having a hard time with Kaguya, who had almost zero battle experience with somebody who can actually go against her.





Who's gonna play with whose body parts?


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## Legendary Itachi (Oct 16, 2014)

Double Rinnegan > Single Rinnegan.


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## Lurko (Oct 16, 2014)

Madara is going to get raped big time without the lube.


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## Rai (Oct 16, 2014)

takL said:


> Hagoromo: The current Madara is exactly the case...
> He's just like my mother, Kaguya.
> Now having finished being a tenseisha (≒transmigration body) of Indra
> He's come close to me by obtaining 10b's power
> ...



1 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara was close to Rikudou in power
2 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara should be equal to Rikudou
3 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara should be > Rikudou

Madara wins.


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## Trojan (Oct 16, 2014)

Madara is stronger.

He had the same amount of the Bijuus, Sasuke has currently. In addition he has the 3 Rinnegans, and the Tree.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 16, 2014)

ℜai said:


> 1 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara was close to Rikudou in power
> 2 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara should be equal to Rikudou
> 3 Rinnegan Juubi jin Madara should be > Rikudou
> 
> Madara wins.


Except Juubi Jin Madara never did a feat equal to Hagoromo's, so your logic is flawed. Sasuke has shown now far greater power than what Madara displayed _and_ is immune to Mugen Tsukuyomi.


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## Lurko (Oct 16, 2014)

Hagoromo would tear Madara a new one.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 16, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Hagoromo would tear Madara a new one.


And both Naruto and Sasuke are at Hagoromo's level now. Madara really has been surpassed even in his strongest form.


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## SSMG (Oct 16, 2014)

Sasuke has already shown he can counter juubidaras best offensive attacks.. and he has shown he can inflict damage to madara. 

also we know juubidara can still die as his statement to guy states so sasuke should be able to edge out the win.


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## Lurko (Oct 16, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And both Naruto and Sasuke are at Hagoromo's level now. Madara really has been surpassed even in his strongest form.



I'm not too sure about that, Hagoromo was pretty hax and seems too have far more power and then you add his intelligence...


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## ueharakk (Oct 16, 2014)

If naruto can fight on Kaguya's level, so can sasuke.  

I don't see a clear winner.


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## Lurko (Oct 16, 2014)

Naruto didn't  though, if it weren't for Pis and Kakashi, Sasuke, Sakura and Obito then Kaguya would have raped him.

Reactions: Dislike 2


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## SSMG (Oct 16, 2014)

Naruto was able to hold his own by himself until they showed back up to the dimension they were fighting in. sure naruto couldnt beat kaguya by himself due to needing sasukes part of the seal.. but when it was 1v1 he was holding his own.


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## Lurko (Oct 16, 2014)

Poor excuse sorry, that was for a short time and mad Pis was involved.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SSMG (Oct 16, 2014)

You accuse me of using poor excuses then bring up PIS.... the irony.


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## Turrin (Oct 16, 2014)

Probably depends on whether the Bijuu combined into Juubi or the Bijuu combined into Susano'o are stronger. For now Juubidara still has the better feats, but I think we need to wait and see.


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## Bkprince33 (Oct 16, 2014)

Sasuke was blitzing mads before he even got use to this rinnengon



unless this is mads after he absorbed the tree sasuke wins mid difficulty

even if it is that mads sasuke wins


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 16, 2014)

The manga says Sasuke is stronger dammit


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## Lurko (Oct 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> You accuse me of using poor excuses then bring up PIS.... the irony.



Lol Pis is a real thing bro, go make a Naruto vs Kaguya thread if both are so equal.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Trojan (Oct 17, 2014)

ueharakk said:


> If naruto can fight on Kaguya's level, so can sasuke.
> 
> I don't see a clear winner.



wut? 
If Sasuke can do that, why he did not? 



Eliyua23 said:


> The manga says Sasuke is stronger dammit



where?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 17, 2014)

Hussain said:


> wut?
> If Sasuke can do that, why he did not?


Since he hadn't adjusted to his Rinnegan, Hussain. Still had the charge time with his teleportation and couldn't use its other abilities.


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## Trojan (Oct 17, 2014)

I don't see how his chakra Rinnegan is going to do much of a different against Kaguya honestly. All what he has shown so far are his teleportation jutsu, which Kaguya kept trolling it, and his CT, which are tiny, and no way in hell
are going to do anything to her. 



> Still had the charge time with his teleportation



He still has that, it's basically a requirement for his teleportation jutsu. 
as for his other Rinnegan abilities, assuming he use them, are still not going to accomplish anything against Kaguya. The kid was perfect against her because of that massive amount of clones, and his EXTREMELY powerful Taijutsu, and sensing abilities.

Sorry, but just because the kid can do something that does not mean Sasuke can do it. And it works the other way
as well. For example, Sasuke can save himself from the MT, but Naruto can't.


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## ARGUS (Oct 17, 2014)

Sasuke beats him mid diff at most 

 - He has canonically blitzed madara through his S/T jutsu, meaing that he is sufferring the same fate here 

 - the only thing that madara has that could even scratch sasukes bijuu amped PS is the TBB however to do that madara needs to form the tree, therefore allowing sasuke more than enough time to eradicate the tree and intercept all of madaras attacks 

 - Madaras Limbo is nonfactor, the attacks such as rinbo hengoku are evaded by sasuke through utmost ease, or his Susanoo just tanks them with no damage whatsoever, as its slashes proceed to eradicate the clones completely, 

 - God tree is also nonfactor, it gets one-shotted by a PS slash which has comparable if not higher cutting strengthh than YRS which canonically eradicated it 

 - Madaras TSB shield isnt withstanding the force of sasukes attacks either, especially when a TBB from BSM Naruto bypassed it,  nor are his onmyoudon negating shit, and his juubi body is also not tanking sasukes attacks when a normal rasengan busted a whole on juubitos body, meaning that sasukes attacks would eradicate madara,

 - Its clear as day that sasuke has now surpassed every juubi jin, bar hagoromo ofc


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## ueharakk (Oct 17, 2014)

Hussain said:


> wut?
> If Sasuke can do that, why he did not?



are you suggesting that the sasuke who fought kaguya = sasuke in chapter 696 after he combines all the bijuu's chakra into his susanoo?


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## SSMG (Oct 17, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Lol Pis is a real thing bro, go make a Naruto vs Kaguya thread if both are so equal.



I know pis is a real thing... but its a poor excuse in a debate.

also the only reason naruto cant beat kaguya in a 1v1 is because he needs sasuke to seal her.. that doesnt change the fact that he was holding his own against her when it was a 1v1.


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## Baroxio (Oct 17, 2014)

Current Sasuke? The Sasuke who BEFORE gaining the Bijuu's power was able to slice Madara in half without him reacting?

Hell, Pre-Juubi Sasuke was able to destroy those black balls that Madara uses for defence using his Susano Arrows. While Sasuke can always make more arrows, it doesn't seem like Madara can simply produce more of those black balls. 

The only other thing we've seen Madara do is spam Chibaku Tensei, but Sasuke already used Chibaku Tensei in base and now has the chakra of all 10 Bijuu to more than match Madara's feat.

Current Sasuke may not be exactly on Kaguya level, but he's definitely above Juubi Jin Madara.


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## Lurko (Oct 17, 2014)

SSMG said:


> I know pis is a real thing... but its a poor excuse in a debate.
> 
> also the only reason naruto cant beat kaguya in a 1v1 is because he needs sasuke to seal her.. that doesnt change the fact that he was holding his own against her when it was a 1v1.



Pis is huge! Kaguya was acting normal in the beginning of the fight and then ended up somehow acting like a retard for the rest of the fight, you can thank Obito the most for that fight btw. Kishi always makes the op villains act stupid so that the good guys can win because without it Kaguya would have tore Naruto's ass up.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SSMG (Oct 17, 2014)

I dunno man at the beginning it seemd she was getting hit with the dumb stick the most it seemed. she was crying to nardo n sauce fighting her n she was caught off guard by the sexy no jutsu. 

when it was the 1v1 with  her vs naruto she was popping his clones like flies using her dust jutsu and tried trapping what she thought was the orginial naruto in one of her dimensipns.. which was actually pretty smart given that its kaguya we are talking about.. who is the most stupid written villian in this manga imo.


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## Csdabest (Oct 17, 2014)

Sasuke Spanks. Sasuke had Madara against the Ropes before getting adjusted to his powers. Now that he has siphoned off chakra from the Bijuu to fuse into his Susano-o making him a Psuedo God Chakra Jin madara can't really compare. Madara may have more chakra but he wouldn't get a chance to use all that Chakra.


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 17, 2014)

Current Sasuke's PS disfigured several Rikudo BM Naruto Avatars, forcing Naruto to combine the avatars. 

Base Rikudo Mode Naruto blitzed Kaguya , a faster Jin than Madara by feats. Sasuke's PS just reacted to 3 BSM Rikudo Narutos, blocking their advance [1], destroying their bijuudamas [2] and fucking their avatars up [3]. He also apparently blitzed the shit out of Naruto [4].

Strictly speaking, before he inflated the power of 9 bijuu into his Susano, Yin-seal Rinnegan Sasuke was already on Rikudo Madara's level with his Susano, S/T Jutsu and gravity manipulation (moving CT meteorites). With them, he is blatantly superior to him.


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## Jagger (Oct 17, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Naruto didn't  though, if it weren't for Pis and Kakashi, Sasuke, Sakura and Obito then Kaguya would have raped him.


Same goes for Sasuke since both of them were needed to complete the sealing jutsu, therefore, trapping Kaguya once more within the Chibaku Tensei.

Despite Kaguya's massive power, he held his own for the longest in the entire group. Kakashi's Susano'O and Sasuke's (along with his teleportation jutsu) were destroyed, simply avoided or countered. Naruto actually tricked Kaguya in a couple of occasions and did the biggest amount of damage to her when comparing it to the other group.


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## Lurko (Oct 18, 2014)

Kakashi did the best when he got His power up, if Kishi had not made Kaguya a moron and the fight was one on one she would make Naruto her bitch. There were some events where Naruto did the best but keep on mind he had help and Kishi made Kaguya a retard as the fight continued intstead of her using her powers right.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Kakashi did the best when he got His power up, if Kishi had not made Kaguya a moron and the fight was one on one she would make Naruto her bitch. There were some events where Naruto did the best but keep on mind he had help and Kishi made Kaguya a retard as the fight continued intstead of her using her powers right.


...Naruto did fight Kaguya one on one. He continually made a fool out of her, overpowered her a few times, and ripped off her arm when he was bloodlusted. Lurker why are you downplaying?


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## Nikushimi (Oct 18, 2014)

A guy with most of the Juubi's power vs. a guy with the same power as a guy with a fraction of the power of the 9 Bijuu.

Hmm. Tough one.



































Madara stomps.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Is this Madara with two Rinnegan, or three.

That makes a huge difference here.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Is this Madara with two Rinnegan, or three.
> 
> That makes a huge difference here.


Why? If Sasuke's power is equal to that of Hagoromo's now, Madara's two or three eyes don't make a difference.


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## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

Huh?

With the Tomoe-Rinnegan Mads surpassed Hagoromo, and was closer to Kaguya's level. In fact, I'd say > Kaguya if you included battle smarts.

As to this thread, it's a bit tough to say. IMO if you go by the reasonable assumption that Mads could use the full platter of what the Rinnegan has shown (Six Path's abilities), and could use with his Tomoe-Rinnegan what Sasuke's shown with his own, then Mads stomps.


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## Kai (Oct 18, 2014)

Not taking either side but:



StickaStick said:


> Huh?
> 
> With the Tomoe-Rinnegan Mads surpassed Hagoromo, and was closer to Kaguya's level. In fact, I'd say > Kaguya if you included battle smarts.


Nothing in the manga has suggested Madara surpassed Hagoromo.

Hagoromo would defeat Madara under any neutral circumstance.



Nikushimi said:


> A guy with most of the Juubi's power vs. a guy with the same power as a guy with a fraction of the power of the 9 Bijuu.
> 
> Hmm. Tough one.
> 
> Madara stomps.


Yeah no, I doubt Obito is above either end game Naruto or Sasuke based on that reasoning.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 18, 2014)

Hmm sasuke has

- Immunity to MT
- Can see madara's limbo clones perfectly
- Already dealt with his chibaku tensei without breaking a sweat with PS
- Has a space shifting tech that already trolled some of madara's senjutsu techs and allowed him to blitz madara
- Said S/T tech would work on truth seeker balls without a hitch(they were shown to be susceptible to FTG and Kamui warping).
- His pre bijuu powered PS laughs act V2-V3 juubi level offense(only like half of sasuke PS was affected by that explosion).

So really by feats what does madara have to trump sasuke...i have not even brought up bijuu chakra amplified sasuke yet. Madara was said to be approaching hagoromo level before he gained the god tree but after his battle cut short.

Madara is not like kaguya who can absorb chakra from the MT victims to do uber techs like that giant truth seeker ball. Madara's feats are really holding him back here.


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## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

Kai said:


> Nothing in the manga has suggested Madara has surpassed Hagoromo.
> 
> Hagoromo would defeat Madara under any neutral circumstance.


We don't need a direct statement when we know that Triple-Rinnegan Mads possessed _both _of the powers that Hagaromo gave to Naruto and Sasuke _and _Kaguya's Rinnegan. IIRC Hagoromo made the statement that Mads was trying to attain his power and then his mother's (Kaguya's). What do you think the Tomoe-Rinnegan represents? It honestly couldn't be more clear to me.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Why? If Sasuke's power is equal to that of Hagoromo's now, Madara's two or three eyes don't make a difference.



Madara with one eye and no Shinju was close to Hagoromo's level. When absorbed the Shinju he grew more powerful... when he got his other Rinnegan he grew even more powerful. 

When he got the third Rinnegan he got Kayuga's eye power (albeit watered down). 

A three eyed Madara would have all Nagato's jutsu, Limbo, Kayuga's space-time _and_ all 10 Gudou Dama. He'd stomp Sasuke.


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## Kai (Oct 18, 2014)

StickaStick said:


> We don't need a direct statement when we know that Triple-Rinnegan Mads possessed _both _of the powers that Hagaromo gave to Naruto and Sasuke _and _Kaguya's Rinnegan. IIRC Hagoromo made the statement that Mads was trying to attain his power and then his mother's (Kaguya's). What do you think the Tomoe-Rinnegan represents? It honestly couldn't be more clear to me.


Hagoromo possessed the same third eye as Kaguya and Madara.



Hagoromo also would never throw away his treasures as blindly as Madara did and he furthermore possessed half of a Kyuubi more than Madara. His knowledge and wisdom about the shinobi world is also greater than Madara's by generations.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Kai said:


> Hagoromo possessed the same third eye as Kaguya and Madara.
> 
> 
> 
> Hagoromo also would never throw away his treasures as blindly as Madara did and he furthermore possessed half of a Kyuubi more than Madara. His knowledge and wisdom about the shinobi world is also greater than Madara's by generations.



We can speculate about Hagoromo having the third eye. Personally I would say he does and that marking on his forehead is a seal to keep it hidden. However we have no actual facts to say that Hagoromo did have Kayuga's eye; in fact it was "sealed" even when fighting Kayuga. You'd think he'd use it against the Juubi, right?

However Hagoromo always had the potential to awaken the third Rinnegan. Whereas Madara actually awakened the third Rinnegan. That much we know.


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## StickaStick (Oct 18, 2014)

Kai said:


> Hagoromo possessed the same third eye as Kaguya and Madara.
> 
> 
> 
> Hagoromo also would never throw away his treasures as blindly as Madara did and he furthermore possessed half of a Kyuubi more than Madara. His knowledge and wisdom about the shinobi world is also greater than Madara's by generations.


It's not the same eye. Compre this [1] to this [2]. Also, Sasuke's is purple. I believe there's an official coloring and it shows Mads' Tomoe-Rinnegan is red, like Kaguya's.

Edit: Nvm. I thought that was the actual eye. If it's a seal then we don't really know for sure if he had it. However, if Sasuke's Rinnegan is supposed to be Hagoromo's sealed one then it wouldn't be the same as Kaguya's.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Oct 18, 2014)

I don't think that's a real eye kai it's look more like some mark/tattoo up close.


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## Hachibi (Oct 18, 2014)

How did this turn about a "Third Rinnegan" discussion is to be known.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> How did this turn about a "Third Rinnegan" discussion is to be known.



Because Juubidara having it has major implications for which Uchiha will win ITT.


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## Hachibi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Because Juubidara having it has major implications for which Uchiha will win ITT.



Juudara only showed MT with it, which got canonically countered by Sasuke's Rinnegan.

Saying that he has Kaguya's Dimensional Power is speculation.


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## Lord Aizen (Oct 18, 2014)

Madara stomps 
Naruto and sasuke combined can't beat madara
You people overhype everything that gets revealed like 8 gates guy


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Juudara only showed MT with it, which got canonically countered by Sasuke's Rinnegan.
> 
> Saying that he has Kaguya's Dimensional Power is speculation.



Same eye, same powers. 

That's like saying Sasuke cannot use Shinra Tensei.


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## Hachibi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Same eye, same powers.
> 
> That's like saying Sasuke cannot use Shinra Tensei.



Not really.

Shisui and Obito has the same eyes yet they don't have the same ability.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Not really.
> 
> Shisui and Obito has the same eyes yet they don't have the same ability.



Except we know Obito got his powers due to having Hashirama's cells prior awakening the Rinnegan. We also know Shisui isn't a normal Uchiha going by Ao. Their different circumstances were made clear to us.

So yes, what you're saying is that Madara cannot use the third Rinnegan's space-time, even though it is exactly the same eye that Kayuga has. For obvious reasons Madara's would be scaled down but it is the same jutsu, nonetheless.


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## Hachibi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Except we know Obito got his powers due to having Hashirama's cells prior *awakening the Rinnegan*. We also know Shisui isn't a normal Uchiha going by Ao. Their different circumstances were made clear to us.



Itachi was stated to not been a normal Uchiha as well.
Also, when did the bloded happened?



> So yes, what you're saying is that Madara cannot use the third Rinnegan's space-time, even though it is exactly the same eye that Kayuga has. For obvious reasons Madara's would be scaled down but it is the same jutsu, nonetheless.



Because he can have another ability instead. Just like Sasuke has S/T Shifting but not Madara and Madara has Limbo but not Sasuke.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> Itachi was stated to not been a normal Uchiha as well.
> Also, when did the bloded happened?



Itachi had pure Uchiha genetics which is why he had the standard MS jutsu.

I meant Mangekyou Sharingan.



> Because he can have another ability instead. Just like Sasuke has S/T Shifting but not Madara and Madara has Limbo but not Sasuke.



Sasuke's ability is due to having a tomoe Rinnegan, not the third *red* Rinnegan.

Sasuke has all the Rinnegan powers, minus the third eye (which he can awaken), including Limbo. He doesn't use them for the same reason he isn't using ST or his space-time now.


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## Hachibi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Itachi had pure Uchiha genetics which is why he had the standard MS jutsu.



Special is too vague of a term anyways.




> Sasuke's ability is due to having a tomoe Rinnegan, not the third *red* Rinnegan.



There is no stated difference between a Tomoe Rinnegan and a Normal Rinnegan bar the design.



> Sasuke has all the Rinnegan powers, minus the third eye (which he can awaken), including Limbo. He doesn't use them for the same reason he isn't using ST or his space-time now.



Because of plot?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

Hachibi said:


> There is no stated difference between a Tomoe Rinnegan and a Normal Rinnegan bar the design.



Bar the fact that Sasuke showed a space-time jutsu while possessing all the Rinnegan's powers.

Then there is the third *red* Rinnegan that Madara and Kayuga had.



> Because of plot?



Precisely.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Bar the fact that Sasuke showed a space-time jutsu while possessing all the Rinnegan's powers.
> 
> Then there is the third *red* Rinnegan that Madara and Kayuga had.
> 
> ...



Sasuk used ST earlier

And design of a eye technique has no correlation to the strength


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Madara with one eye and no Shinju was close to Hagoromo's level. When absorbed the Shinju he grew more powerful... when he got his other Rinnegan he grew even more powerful.


Really now, when did he make a Moon with zero effort then? Why was his power so potent enough to make Naruto and Sasuke overpower Madara so easily?


> When he got the third Rinnegan he got Kayuga's eye power (albeit watered down).


No. All the Third Rinnegan does is Mugen Tsukuyomi. That's it.


> A three eyed Madara would have all Nagato's jutsu, Limbo, Kayuga's space-time _and_ all 10 Gudou Dama. He'd stomp Sasuke.


Sasuke has all of Nagato's jutsus as well, Limbo is useless, Madara never has displayed Kaguya's Space-Time at all, and Gudodama aren't as useful against Sasuke's power now.



Lord Aizen said:


> Madara stomps
> Naruto and sasuke combined can't beat madara
> You people overhype everything that gets revealed like 8 gates guy


Kurama. Himself. Put, Sasuke. And Naruto on Hagoromo's level now. Madara's ass was beaten while they were still NEW to their fucking powers.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Really now, when did he make a Moon with zero effort then? Why was his power so potent enough to make Naruto and Sasuke overpower Madara so easily?
> 
> No. All the Third Rinnegan does is Mugen Tsukuyomi. That's it.
> 
> ...



Anyone who has the chakra of all nine tailed beast under their control is Six Paths Level

That Includes Obito and Madara


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Anyone who has the chakra of all nine tailed beast under their control is Six Paths Level
> 
> That Includes Obito and Madara


Neither Obito or Madara have Hagoromo's Moon feat. And Hagoromo had the complete Juubi inside him unlike Obito and Madara. Naruto and Sasuke are at Hagoromo's level now while Kurama never said Obito and Madara got close.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Neither Obito or Madara have Hagoromo's Moon feat. And Hagoromo had the complete Juubi inside him unlike Obito and Madara. Naruto and Sasuke are at Hagoromo's level now while Kurama never said Obito and Madara got close.



As long as most the Nine Tailed Beasts chakra are in their the Ten Tails is asgood as any other

It will simply take awhile for it's true form


Absorbing that energy will make just like the Sage of the Six Paths was

Tho I don't know How Hamura got that power unless they split it it 50/50


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> As long as most the Nine Tailed Beasts chakra are in their the Ten Tails is asgood as any other
> 
> It will simply take awhile for it's true form


Hagaromo had the complete, full powered version, both Madara and Obito didn't have that. And again, neither of them has gotten to Hagaromo's moon feat.


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## Wolfstein (Oct 18, 2014)

Madara still wins.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

Wolfstein said:


> Madara still wins.


Explain why? Sasuke being directly compared to Hagoromo, trashing Madara like he's nothing before, etc. doesn't help your argument.


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## Ersa (Oct 18, 2014)

Considering Madara already made a few country sized Chibaku Tensei meteors quite casually I wouldn't say it's impossible for him to replicate Hagaromo's feat. The dude did it without the Juubi and Madara has both his monstrous reserves and the full might of the Juubi.

Mere speculation, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume the Sage, Madara, Nardo and Sauce are more or less at the same level.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Hagaromo had the complete, full powered version, both Madara and Obito didn't have that. And again, neither of them has gotten to Hagaromo's moon feat.



That moon feat is a seperate jutsu all together


Plus I'm confident in saying NV's moon isn't the size of ours


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## ueharakk (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Anyone who has the chakra of all nine tailed beast under their control is Six Paths Level
> 
> That Includes Obito and Madara



*hagoromo implied that one-eyed rinnegan madara was not at his level yet.*


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> That moon feat is a seperate jutsu all together
> 
> 
> Plus I'm confident in saying NV's moon isn't the size of ours


No, its just a derivative jutsu. All the seals do is hold Kaguya/Juubi in place so she can't break out of the jutsu.

And the moon is the same size as ours. And even if it wasn't, its still larger than Madara's feat.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> No, its just a derivative jutsu.* All the seals do is hold Kaguya/Juubi in place so she can't break out of the jutsu.
> *
> And the moon is the same size as ours. And even if it wasn't, its still larger than Madara's feat.



The bold is made up

Unless you think Naruto can use CT on his his own


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> The bold is made up
> 
> Unless you think Naruto can use CT on his his own


Naruto lacks the Rinnegan so he can use Chibaku Tensei. See the process of what Rikudo Chibaku Tensei did. The seals held Kaguya in place and then blocked her third eye. Then Hagaromo did the seal and the moon began being built around her.


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## Punished Pathos (Oct 18, 2014)

Sasuke takes this.
Neg diff


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Naruto lacks the Rinnegan so he can use Chibaku Tensei. See the process of what Rikudo Chibaku Tensei did. The seals held Kaguya in place and then blocked her third eye. Then Hagaromo did the seal and the moon began being built around her.



Where was this stated?

It was heavily implied that the seal is a conjoined effort of the two seals and they only have to pat her so 'holding her in place' isn't needed for the seals

Infact Sasuke suggested a jutsu to stop Madara first before trying the jutsu on him


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Where was this stated?
> 
> It was heavily implied that the seal is a conjoined effort of the two seals and they only have to pat her so 'holding her in place' isn't needed for the seals
> 
> Infact Sasuke suggested a jutsu to stop Madara first before trying the jutsu on him


It didn't need to be stated since it was explicitly shown. The seals were needed to seal Kaguya's Third Eye then he activated Chibaku Tensei and it began building up around them.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It didn't need to be stated since it was explicitly shown. The seals were needed to seal Kaguya's Third Eye then he activated Chibaku Tensei and it began building up around them.



The seals are what cause the Chibaku Tensei to seal her not one person


Or else it would've been implied as Sasuke just using it not a conjoined effort


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> The seals are what cause the Chibaku Tensei to seal her not one person
> 
> 
> Or else it would've been implied as Sasuke just using it not a conjoined effort




First page we see Kaguya's eye being covered by the Sun and Moon symbol. That's what the seals were FOR.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Really now, when did he make a Moon with zero effort then? Why was his power so potent enough to make Naruto and Sasuke overpower Madara so easily?



Plot. 
Madara wasn't using his ocular powers (bar Limbo) _at all_. Also it was acknowledged that Naruto and Sasuke couldn't take him on alone. 

Now with the Rinnegan, both of them, be stomped them both. This is without Gudou Dama.



> No. All the Third Rinnegan does is Mugen Tsukuyomi. That's it.



Kayuga's battle shows otherwise.



> Sasuke has all of Nagato's jutsus as well, Limbo is useless, Madara never has displayed Kaguya's Space-Time at all, and Gudodama aren't as useful against Sasuke's power now.



Limbo is obviously not useless, otherwise Naruto wouldn't have gone through the trouble of countering it. Naruto and Sasuke got fucked over the first them they fought Madara because of Limbo. 

Madara has the eye which has Kayuga's space-time power. 

Gudou Dama would be useful counters. Especially if Madara forms Hagoromo's sword and shield. With the third Rinnegan + Shinju within him, he may very well produce a sword and shield far more potent than Hagoromo and Obito's.

He certainly won't be inhibited by emotions.

Kurama. Himself. Put, Sasuke. And Naruto on Hagoromo's level now. Madara's ass was beaten while they were still NEW to their fucking powers.[/QUOTE]



TensaXZangetsu said:


> Sasuk used ST earlier
> 
> And design of a eye technique has no correlation to the strength



When did Sasuke use ST? 

If you mean space-time, then I don't believe I said Sasuke never used that.

The design does say a lot in this case, especially when (considering Sasuke) it came with a new jutsu.


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> When did Sasuke use ST?
> 
> If you mean space-time, then I don't believe I said Sasuke never used that.
> 
> The design does say a lot in this case, especially when (considering Sasuke) it came with a new jutsu.



Here


And Madara and Nagato have the same design yet Nagato can't use Limbo

This should be proof enough that same eye powers react differently with the user


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> First page we see Kaguya's eye being covered by the Sun and Moon symbol. That's what the seals were FOR.



Covering her eye?


Then why didn't Sasuke just use it on Madara earlier?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 18, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Covering her eye?
> 
> 
> Then why didn't Sasuke just use it on Madara earlier?


Since Madara wouldn't have been immobilized. Taking the third eye out of the equation permanently is what the seals do.


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## klutchii (Oct 18, 2014)

Hm honestly I don't know cause by feats sasuke stomps

Madara with one rinnegan pre shinju was stated to be approaching hagoromo level, but then he absorbed shinju which gave his clothing more markings similar to kaguya. 

After receiving his second rinnegan his full abilities seem to have released, so if that madara could also use a bijuu powered perfect susanoo then they're likely on the same level again. 

Madara also had the third eye so it's likely he could access kaguya's dimension jutsu, so I honestly think madara had the potential to be stronger, but unfortunately we never got to see it


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## Ashi (Oct 18, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since Madara wouldn't have been immobilized. Taking the third eye out of the equation permanently is what the seals do.



Then according to you it wouldn't work on Madara


Despite Sasuke suggesting it in the first place


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## Lurko (Oct 19, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> ...Naruto did fight Kaguya one on one. He continually made a fool out of her, overpowered her a few times, and ripped off her arm when he was bloodlusted. Lurker why are you downplaying?



Dude I'm not downplaying he caught her off guard, in chakra fist battles she won and the only time Naruto really got her was the rasengans and harem justu, everywhere else not so much. Make a thread of Naruto vs Kaguya with no Pis and bloodlusted from the start and see how it goes. If is teammates weren't there to help him then he would have been dead sorry.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 19, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Dude I'm not downplaying he caught her off guard, in chakra fist battles she won and the only time Naruto really got her was the rasengans and harem justu, everywhere else not so much. Make a thread of Naruto vs Kaguya with no Pis and bloodlusted from the start and see how it goes. If is teammates weren't there to help him then he would have been dead sorry.


Did I ever admit Naruto would beat Kaguya? No, I said he could hold his own. There is a difference. Even in his current strongest form, he can't win.


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## Kyu (Oct 19, 2014)

> the only time Naruto really got her was the rasengans and harem justu




*Spoiler*: __


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## Lurko (Oct 19, 2014)

Dude you realize he caught her off guard that last one and your not bringing the number of times she put him and Sasuke close to death.


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## Lurko (Oct 19, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Did I ever admit Naruto would beat Kaguya? No, I said he could hold his own. There is a difference. Even in his current strongest form, he can't win.



Alright just making sure, I thought you were one of those people claiming she would lose to Naruto or something, I have Naruto, Ashura, Indra and Sasuke on the same level with only Hagoromo, Hamura and Kaguya higher and possibly double ms Kakashi.. Dude was hax.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 19, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Dude you realize he caught her off guard that last one and your not bringing the number of times she put him and Sasuke close to death.


There was literally only one time that they were 'close to death'. Blitzing means the character is caught off guard. Naruto, when using Kokuo's power smashed through Kaguya's chakra arms like nothing and he turned her into a rag doll a few times. True he can't win, but he can hold his own.


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## Lurko (Oct 19, 2014)

I think that was just some bs when he blitzed her like the feat where Sakura somehow managed to break Kaguya's horn. If it weren't for Pis the fight would have been over at the time she held them in her hair but hey they had to win somehow.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 19, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I think that was just some bs when he blitzed her like the feat where Sakura somehow managed to break Kaguya's horn. If it weren't for Pis the fight would have been over at the time she held them in her hair but hey they had to win somehow.


Sakura managed to either attack Kaguya's blind spot, or hit her where she couldn't get out of the way while simultaneously being attacked by Naruto and Sasuke. The seal instantly depowered her, hence why she feared it.

An enraged, bloodlusted Naruto blitzing Kaguya is a feat. No one ,not even Kakashi managed to accomplish that.


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## Kyu (Oct 19, 2014)

> Dude you realize he caught her off guard that last one



She was staring dead at him. 

Legit blitz is legit.


> and your not bringing the number of times she put him and Sasuke close to death.


Has nothing to do with the inaccurate claim of yours that I quoted.

No one's denying she can defeat them anyway.



> I think that was just some bs when he blitzed her like the feat where Sakura somehow managed to break Kaguya's horn.



Naruto, while far from Kaguya's equal has shown he can get the drop on her ass numerous times prior to blitzing her. Furthermore, we've never seen what a bloodlusted RSM Naruto's Shunshin could do til said moment. Ripping off the bitch's arm wasn't entirely out of the realm of possibility.

Sakura who isn't even on Pain-Arc Naruto's level - can damage a Chakra God.

Guess who's feat reeks of an outlier?


*Spoiler*: __ 



Sakura's


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## Bonly (Oct 19, 2014)

Could go either way imo, depends on how willing Madara is to use his entire arsenal and how soon he will go to use it and the smaller details.


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## ARGUS (Oct 19, 2014)

people are really fighting the hard battle of madara winning Lol, he stands no chance by feats, 
its clear that sasuke is on the same level as hagoromo through his Bijuu PS (BPS) which was manhandling multiple RSM kurama avatars, 
i will requote my post on why sasuke wins, and anyone who disagrees with sasuke winning should either read tthe chapter again, or llog out, 



> Sasuke beats him mid diff at most
> 
> - He has canonically blitzed madara through his S/T jutsu, meaing that he is sufferring the same fate here
> 
> ...


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## Bkprince33 (Oct 19, 2014)

ARGUS said:


> people are really fighting the hard battle of madara winning Lol, he stands no chance by feats,
> its clear that sasuke is on the same level as hagoromo through his Bijuu PS (BPS) which was manhandling multiple RSM kurama avatars,
> i will requote my post on why sasuke wins, and anyone who disagrees with sasuke winning should either read tthe chapter again, or llog out,



^^^ What he said, no one has made a decent argument for madara yet, all i see is excuses as to why he didn't use his full power and speculation.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 19, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Here
> 
> 
> And Madara and Nagato have the same design yet Nagato can't use Limbo
> ...



Nothing you said made sense.

Madara has all Nagato's powers. Nagato could not use Limbo because he didn't master the Rinnegan like Madara did; perhaps he couldn't access it because he wasn't the original owner.

Same powers don't react differently with users because the Rinnegan's powers are clearly defined. We know you get the Seven Paths, we know those with Obito's mastery can manifest the Gedo chains. We also know those with Madara mastery can go further and use Limbo.
Now we have Sasuke's Rinnegan which can do all that and use the space-time. 

Going by Sasuke's Rinnegan, a tomoe Rinnegan does all a Rinnegan does plus space-time.

Madara and Kayuga's third eye do the same thing, however.


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## Lurko (Oct 19, 2014)

Why is it that people fail to realize that the only blitzing feat was plot no justu, Kishi did it to make him look cool and that's all. It wouldn't happen again.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 20, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Why is it that people fail to realize that the only blitzing feat was plot no justu, Kishi did it to make him look cool and that's all. It wouldn't happen again.


Kaguya was looking DIRECTLY at Naruto. He still slashed off her arm without her even realizing he moved.


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## StickaStick (Oct 20, 2014)

Plot is honestly almost never a legitimate excuse. If you don't like it take it up with Kishi; he introduced it thus making it canon.


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## Lurko (Oct 20, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Kaguya was looking DIRECTLY at Naruto. He still slashed off her arm without her even realizing he moved.



It wouldn't happen again, it was plot no justu to make Naruto look badass, anyway if you have a problem hit me up on my profile I'm done ruining this thread on another matter.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Oct 20, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> It wouldn't happen again, it was plot no justu to make Naruto look badass, anyway if you have a problem hit me up on my profile I'm done ruining this thread on another matter.


It wasn't plot no jutsu. We've already seen how fast Naruto is when he ISN'T serious.


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## Edo Madara (Nov 1, 2014)

Madara have more experience than sasuke and Juubi > combined power of 9 biju. 

Madara wins.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Im very interested in what madara can do if sasuke decides to spam chibaku tensei.

Sasuke can use 9 at the same time.

Then theres indra's arrow which naruto could only stalemate despite having the elemental advantage and all of the worlds natrual energy.

Sasuke's ps was fast enough to bltiz 3 kurama avatars

It also had the ability to use chidori.

It's clear as day at this point sasuke would baby shake mads


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## RedChidori (Nov 1, 2014)

Sharinnegan Teleport + Enton Chidori GG .

Sharinnegan Teleport + Rikudo Chidori Eiso GG .

Perfect Susano'o GG .

Indra's Arrow GG .

Take your pick Madz .


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## Invictus-Kun (Nov 1, 2014)

Consider this:

Nardo and Sauce after Powerup is still behind Madara.  Thus,

juubidara >Nardo and Sauce
2 Rinnegan>1 Rinnegan
Limbo: Sasuke had nothing to counter this.
Sasuke S/T = Limbo
CT = CT
INDRA's arrow? = Madara will just absorb that imo

PS? CT.



Madara had to much chakra supply and Maddy can stand with half his body cut.

If they will go toe to toe. Sasuke loses more chakra and Maddy will replenish his own.

And dont forget, Ninjutsu dont work on him right?

So, Senjutsu and Taijusu only, where would Sauce pull those things?

Mid Diff for Madara.

Sasuke aint have enough.


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## Legendary Itachi (Nov 1, 2014)

This chapter just proves Sasuke isn't on Rikudo level. What a new Rinnegan. 

Besides, Madara is close to Kaguya level with his Sharinnegan. 



Bkprince33 said:


> Im very interested in what madara can do if sasuke decides to spam chibaku tensei.
> 
> Sasuke can use 9 at the same time.
> 
> ...





Madara throws 40+ Chibaku Tensei at once in far larger size and calls it as some raindrops. And Naruto has no Preta Path.


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## Hachibi (Nov 1, 2014)

Invictus-Kun said:


> Consider this:
> 
> Nardo and Sauce after Powerup is still behind Madara.  Thus,
> 
> ...



Sasuke has a counter for Limbo : his own Rinnegan.

Not to mention his new PS blitzed RSM Naruto, who blitzed Kaguya.


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## Alucardemi (Nov 1, 2014)

Well, to be honest, Rinnegan Sasuke was pretty-much tooling One-Eyed Shinju JJ Madara around, so after both their power-ups, I'd definitely still give the edge to Sasuke.


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## RBL (Nov 1, 2014)

going by this logic, naruto survived this new 'sasuke', if sasuke were stronger than jj madara, some minutes ago (before kaguya was defeated) naruto would have defeated madara by his own.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Legendary Itachi said:


> This chapter just proves Sasuke isn't on Rikudo level. What a new Rinnegan.
> 
> Besides, Madara is close to Kaguya level with his Sharinnegan.
> 
> ...



This chapter simply solidified the fact that if sasuke had more time with his rinnengon he would clearly be the strongest character in the manga....


Which sasuke was handling just fine before he even got use to his rinnengon current ps would baby shake madaras chibaku tensei 

Space time ninjutsu already proved to be problamatic for madara dude got cut in half like a slice of salami, had he not stole kakashi's eye he would of lost right there.

Sasuke is clearly above mads at this point his ps had the speed to blitz 3 bm avatars and madara has no answer for indras arrow, naruto could only stalemate it with the elemental advantage and all the worlds natrual energy think about that for one sec.

Naruto held his own against kaguya who is alot stronger then mads and used even more impressive moves against sauce, imo either naruto or sauce could baby shake mads at this point.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Nov 1, 2014)

Can someone tell why Madara, with the Rinnesharingan, without plotshield, whose above Hagoromo can't replicate the feat Sasuke did with Perfect Susanoo?

What's more why can't he allow his Perfect Susanoo to hold Nunonoku and the Gudodama shield alongside its standard blades?


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Can someone tell why Madara, with the Rinnesharingan, without plotshield, whose above Hagoromo can't replicate the feat Sasuke did with Perfect Susanoo?
> 
> What's more why can't he allow his Perfect Susanoo to hold Nunonoku and the Gudodama shield alongside its standard blades?



When was it ever stated madara surpassed hagoromo 

And what valid reason do we have to even scales madaras susano to sasuke?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Nov 1, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> When was it ever stated madara surpassed hagoromo
> 
> And what valid reason do we have to even scales madaras susano to sasuke?



With 1 Rinnegan and Pre-Shinju, Madara was close to Hagoromo.

He got stronger with the Shinju... even more powerful with the other Rinnegan. The Rinnesharingan cemented it. 

Madara has all the Bijuu's chakra within him: why can't he release them within his own Susanoo? Granted he might not be capable of manipulating it as smoothly as Sasuke.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> With 1 Rinnegan and Pre-Shinju, Madara was close to Hagoromo.
> 
> He got stronger with the Shinju... even more powerful with the other Rinnegan. The Rinnesharingan cemented it.
> 
> Madara has all the Bijuu's chakra within him: why can't he release them within his own Susanoo? Granted he might not be capable of manipulating it as smoothly as Sasuke.



We don't  have a exact way to calculate the power gap between madara and the old geezer because obviously hagoromo is featless, but i will say threw both of there displays, only sasuke was mention in terms of being on the old mans level, we also have direct statements stating madara was under kaguya so i wouldn't be to quick to scale madara to the old man based off a estimation.

The rinnensharingon obviously does not cement anything as sasuke wasn't mention to be in hagoromo class when he first unlocked it.

You answered your own question sasuke has always been hinted to have more potential then madara, it's the end of the manga now i believe it's more then fair to say sasuke has reached that potential.

There's also the fact that madara didn't even use susano in his form, even when gated gai was beating the piss out of him, maybe madara doesn't have the ability to manifest all of his current chakra threw his susano, he's been near death to many times on panel to not even attempt to erect his susano, sasuke is also the only one who has been able to cast a jutsu with his ps so i believe this pretty much answers your questions.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Nov 1, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> We don't  have a exact way to calculate the power gap between madara and the old geezer because obviously hagoromo is featless, but i will say threw both of there displays, only sasuke was mention in terms of being on the old mans level, we also have direct statements stating madara was under kaguya so i wouldn't be to quick to scale madara to the old man based off a estimation.



Featless but he said the weakest Juubidara was close to him in power. 
Madara got significantly stronger after that; it isn't a stretch to assume he surpassed Hagoromo's power.



> The rinnensharingon obviously does not cement anything as sasuke wasn't mention to be in hagoromo class when he first unlocked it.



Sasuke could manipulate Bijuu chakra like Hagoromo; he wasn't Hagoromo level. 
Rinnesharingan is the strongest ocular power; it cements a lot of things. Just like Madara getting two Rinnegan cemented him being above Naruto and Sasuke.




> There's also the fact that madara didn't even use susano in his form, even when gated gai was beating the piss out of him, maybe madara doesn't have the ability to manifest all of his current chakra threw his susano, he's been near death to many times on panel to not even attempt to erect his susano, sasuke is also the only one who has been able to cast a jutsu with his ps so i believe this pretty much answers your questions.



Madara also didn't use Shinra Tensei, Demon Realm or even Hungry Ghost Realm while fighting Naruto and go. 
Plot is the reason Madara didn't do this.

Also your poor explanation didn't answer anything. It just hinges on the assumption that Madara was not plot hindered like all other Rinnegan/Rinnesharingan users.


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## Bkprince33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Featless but he said the weakest Juubidara was close to him in power.
> Madara got significantly stronger after that; it isn't a stretch to assume he surpassed Hagoromo's power.
> 
> 
> ...



It isn't a stretch but it isn't  a definitive answer, we have to assume for madara, we don't  have to with sasuke.


It was stated sasuke was old mans level i don't have to prove or argue this, refer to the chapter before the last one if you like.


I don't get your stance, you don't  have the manga backing you but your not even presenting feats for your arguement, if you believe madara to be above current sasuke and naruto that's kool, but portrayal tells a different story and even in the feats department they are much ahead of mads.

You don't want to accept my explanation that's not suprising, as you clearly don't  wanna accept the manga explanation either blaming plot for his performance.

Fact is sasuke almost killed madara with his newly found powers and sasuke has gotten much much stronger since then, we can use feats if you like.


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