# Minato vs Orochimaru



## The_Conqueror (Oct 1, 2016)

Assume minato is in place of hiruzen during konoha crush. Orochimaru has already summoned tobirama and hashirama (both have pt1 Edo feats). 
Battleground: Hiruzen vs Orochimaru
Restrictions:  
-Any other summons for orochimaru
- Shiki fujin for minato
Knowledge : Manga


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## hbcaptain (Oct 1, 2016)

Minato wins,

He can easily blitz and seal Edo Hashirama&Tobirama using clones while the original fight Orochimaru.

Then it comes to Minato vs Orochimaru, and Minato wins here, if Orochimaru tries human form then Minato speedblitz him untile he runs ut of chara spamming Kawarimi, if he tries Yamata then FCD + Shishou/Hakke Fuin beats Orochimaru.

Not to mention Minato is portrayed beeing superior to the sannin.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 1, 2016)

Fushi Tensei neg-dif
_____________________
really though aside from the fact that Minato is somewhat portrayed to be on Orochimarus level I can't see Orochimaru pulling through this battle. His regen/durability can only take him so far in this battle and considering Minato is hyped to be experienced with sealing jutsu Edo Tensei shouldn't be a huge problem for him. I don't know.... this battle is complicated because you have Minato who lacks the firepower to put Orochimaru down completely then you have Orochimaru who isn't going to land anything on Minato. I suppose Minato could just tag Orochimaru and from there on he'd be able to just fuck Orochimaru with Rasengans until he goes down...

I'll give this to Minato Mid-High Difficulty.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Android (Oct 1, 2016)

- Contract seal = Bye bye Edo Tensei . Or any other summons .
- FTG , and FTG variants can protect Minato from anything else in Orochi's arsenal .
But then there's the problem which is Minato's lack of fire power or a Jutsu that can OHKO Oro . But i guess with redirecting some of Oro's attack at him with S/T barrier he could kill him .
Also Minato's Rasengan is on par with Naruto's SM Rasengan , if Minato kept on hitting him with that , it should eventually put him down .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jackalinthebox (Oct 1, 2016)

I always hear Minato doesn't have any firepower; which is kinda true, but ehh. We've seen him casually make Rasengans bigger than Naruto's Odama Rasengan, he could make a massive Rasengan and vaporize Oro with it


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## Gohara (Oct 1, 2016)

Minato wins without much of a problem IMO.  Minato should be significantly more powerful than Old Sarutobi, and Old Sarutobi put up a great match up against Orochimaru.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 1, 2016)

Gohara said:


> Minato wins without much of a problem IMO.  Minato should be significantly more powerful than Old Sarutobi, and Old Sarutobi put up a great match up against Orochimaru.


Well that fight was full of CIS / PIS. Sarutobi didn't want to fight his student and masters, he was almost crying the entire battle. Orochimaru also wanted to make Sarutobi suffer, while he did have killing intent he didn't even fight alongside his Edo Tensei, he just stood in the back laughing at Hiruzen. Assuming orochimaru has killing intent and doesn't care about emotionally torturing Minato then the fight should be fair at least Mid-High Difficulty for Minato.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LightningForce (Oct 1, 2016)

Really, if Orochimaru somehow manages to even capture Minato with his snakes which would be a miracle given Minato's superior reflexes and speed, Minato can simply just zip out with FTG like a rat. What's more, Minato can easily tag Orochimaru and bamflash him relentlessly until one of them gives in due to lack of stamina. 

But I see Orochimaru as a tough sucker who won't fall easily even after a few Rasengans. The only way Orochimaru can win is by unleashing his true form and allowing Minato to touch his blood, which is poisonous. I can actually see that happening.


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## Troyse22 (Oct 2, 2016)

Oro should pull this with high diff. He simply outlasts Minato, massive chakra reserves. And living Minato has no crazy firepower, it'd take more than a cheesy rasengan to take him down, Minato just runs out of chakra.

Constantly having to Hiraishin from Oros snakes and having to Teleport Oro would be insanely chakra taxing.

High diff win for Orochimaru

Reactions: Like 1


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## Butthurt McWowimacunt (Oct 2, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Well that fight was full of CIS / PIS. Sarutobi didn't want to fight his student and masters, he was almost crying the entire battle. Orochimaru also wanted to make Sarutobi suffer, while he did have killing intent he didn't even fight alongside his Edo Tensei, he just stood in the back laughing at Hiruzen. Assuming orochimaru has killing intent and doesn't care about emotionally torturing Minato then the fight should be fair at least Mid-High Difficulty for Minato.



I don't think this totally applies because hiruzens lack of killing intent is compensated for by his increase in knowledge. He knew hashirama and tobirama personally and Orochimaru was his student, so the CIS/PIS only counts for so much when excusing his incompetence in that fight in comparison to Minatos potential. Regardless of his emotions, he had enough knowledge not to get his ass kicked so bad whether he's trying hard or not.  I think he lost because he lost, not that I'm sure Minato would do significantly better but I'm leaning towards agreeing with that conclusion.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kyu (Oct 2, 2016)

Minato either calls forth Fukasaku & Shima, seals Oro into something, or sends him to another continent via the marking he placed  _Kumogakure's_ Jinchuuriki.

Oro's featless poison is a non-factor and attempting to outlast a Sage isn't wise. Yondaime wins.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gemmysaur (Oct 2, 2016)

On one hand, Oro has ok attacks, high regen and kage bodyguards.

On another, Minato pretty much blitzes everyone here (since Edo Tensei weakens the kage siblings), but has low damage.

Gonna have to go with Minato via Contract Seal which removes the control over the summon, which would either mean Edo kages die, or Edo kages side with Minato and lols at Oro.

That and Minato can make big Oodama Rasengans, and that he can go Senpo: Rasengan could probably be enough. Else, he trolls with Hiraishin: Dorai.


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## Icegaze (Oct 2, 2016)

Minato removes ET control via his summoning seal 
Once out of oro control they simply release themsleves 
Minato then cuts down oro continuously till he dies 
Mid diff only cuz of oro regen


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 2, 2016)

Like others pointed out, ET is a non factor here. They are too slow to tag minato and Minato can use contract seal to dispell the jutsu anyways. 

Whats problematic is Yamata no Orochi, Oro's poison and his resillience.
Can go eitherway honestly based on feats. Minato can use as many rasengans as he likes, he is not putting a dent on Yamata no Orochi. 
Other than ShikiFuuin he has no way of handling this. Oro is just a bad match up.

Although if they were to fight in the manga Minato would likely have a convenient method to deal with Yamata no Orochi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Second Hokage Tobirama (Oct 2, 2016)

Minato Mid Diffs.

He have the perfect Skill Set to deal with Oro! TG,Sealing Techs,Rasengans,Shunshin,Kage Bunshin,Intelligence....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 2, 2016)

Contract Seal GG 

Edos are either gone forever now, or they join team yondaime and oro gets murdered.

Either way oro gets murdered honestly, as Minato can also blitz outright and kill oro with a odama+ sized rasengan to the skull.
Theres also hype going for minato, hes portrayed at sannin+ level, has feats to back it up, and according to hiruzen and anko, minato could beat oro when they both believed the third himself couldnt.


Theres a reason oro got passed over to become the 4th, minato is simply gooder, all there is to it.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 2, 2016)

Kyu said:


> Minato either calls forth Fukasaku & Shima, seals Oro into something, or sends him to another continent via the marking he placed  _Kumogakure's_ Jinchuuriki.
> 
> Oro's featless poison is a non-factor and attempting to outlast a Sage isn't wise. Yondaime wins.



*Spoiler*: _Featless poison? How is it featless?_ 




Orochimaru's poisons:




			
				DB1 said:
			
		

> *Sōjasōsai no Jutsu/Twin Snake Sacrifice Technique*
> This forbidden technique is a murder-suicide attack, killing both the user and the target. The user makes a one-handed seal with both their hand and the intended victim's. Two snakes are then from the user's sleeve, biting both their wrists and killing them with deadly venom. When  used this technique against , he replaced himself with a clone to avoid harm, leaving Anko unable to finish the technique - which wouldn't even be suicide since Orochimaru himself would be immune to the poisons.



He has paralysis poisons ...


... Such as the neurotoxin a poison immunised ninja could not tank




 Anyway Minato takes this High Difficulty. Don't really need to explain why. He'd only need Extreme Diff for people like Nagato/Pain etc. Mid Diff for people like Sasori and Itachi.

PS: To be honest, Minato doesn't really have the tools to kill Orochimaru, but lets just say he wins anyway based on portrayal.


*Spoiler*: _Maybe we can raise this fight to an extreme difficulty one based on these scans_ 









Anyway, this is my one post for the day. Logging off now. See y'all later!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Turrin (Oct 2, 2016)

Minato is portrayed far enough above Orochimaru that even giving Orochimaru the advantage of Prep for Edo-Tensei is unlikely to change the ultimate outcome of the battle.


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## Gohara (Oct 2, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Well that fight was full of CIS / PIS. Sarutobi didn't want to fight his student and masters, he was almost crying the entire battle. Orochimaru also wanted to make Sarutobi suffer, while he did have killing intent he didn't even fight alongside his Edo Tensei, he just stood in the back laughing at Hiruzen. Assuming orochimaru has killing intent and doesn't care about emotionally torturing Minato then the fight should be fair at least Mid-High Difficulty for Minato.



I'm not a big fan of those terms, but it's true that mindsets should be taken into consideration, and both were hindered to some degree.  So I can see what you mean when you say that it's not an entirely fair representation of how powerful they are compared to each other.  Still, to me Orochimaru's portrayal wasn't anything similar to that of any of the most powerful Kages.  More powerful than the average Kage possibly, but I think that pretty much any of the top tier Kages can defeat him.  I consider Jiraiya to be more of a power house and I would say that Minato is more powerful than Jiraiya.  Minato is, IMO, one of the most powerful Normal Ninjas.


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## wooly Eullerex (Oct 2, 2016)

oro wins w/o zombies. minato sternum eventually runs straight into kusanagi


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## StarWanderer (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Fushi Tensei neg-dif
> _____________________
> really though aside from the fact that Minato is somewhat portrayed to be on Orochimarus level I can't see Orochimaru pulling through this battle. His regen/durability can only take him so far in this battle and considering Minato is hyped to be experienced with sealing jutsu Edo Tensei shouldn't be a huge problem for him. I don't know.... this battle is complicated because you have Minato who lacks the firepower to put Orochimaru down completely then you have Orochimaru who isn't going to land anything on Minato. I suppose Minato could just tag Orochimaru and from there on he'd be able to just fuck Orochimaru with Rasengans until he goes down...
> 
> I'll give this to Minato Mid-High Difficulty.



Durability?

Dude, Itachi cut Oro's arm off with a simple Kunai. Minato can cut Oro to peaces if he wants to.

Renegeration will help Orochimaru, of course, but he will run out of chakra eventually, or will get sealed.

Part 1 Edo Hokage shouldnt be a problem, obviously.

Minato mid-easy diffs.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

StarWanderer said:


> Durability?



*Spoiler*: _Yes, durability._ 



He's been punched by a one-hit-kill punch and survived.


He's been battered and bruised & abuses and bisected and blasted to oblivion by Naruto and just kept laughing and carrying on.







> Dude, Itachi cut Oro's arm off with a simple Kunai. Minato can cut Oro to peaces if he wants to.


So what? You mean when they weren't even having a proper fight? How do you know Orochimaru's body was modified back then? Considering Itachi was his first attempt at a Fushi Tensei body transfer (he fought Itachi five years before Wave Arc but he was on his second body when he faced Hiruzen months after that, and had used up 2 years of the body, plus the 3 years of his first, meaning his first transfer was in the year he left Akatsuki, obviously after his confrontation with Itachi since he'd need to wait 3 years for a second transfer, and so on), and he modifies his bodies _after_ he transfers into them. He may not even have had that durability back then, but the most recent Orochimaru we know was *bisected in half *yet just laughed about it so even if he gets "chopped up to peaces" (it's spelt 'pieces'), I think he's gonna be fine. This is the Orochimaru who told Kabuto, "one hit (from Tsunade) will kill you", yet tanked the same punch later (a stronger one in fact since Tsunade's rustiness was wearing away, she overcame her phobia and replenished her reserves with Sozo Saisei) and tanked the residue (after the Sanjuu Rashomon's blast reduction) of a KN4 Tailed Beast Bomb, so stop wanking Kunai and stop underrating Orochimaru, whilst overhyping Itachi's menial feats.


> Renegeration will help Orochimaru, of course, but he will run out of chakra eventually, or will get sealed.


Yes it f*cking will, he had an arm taken off by KN3 Naruto and regenerated it finely, did the same twice later in the fight, and as I keep having to say, did not run out of chakra, but his time limit on his host, Genyumaru, was slowly coming to an end. The one time it was said that technique was taxing was_ when Sasuke used it and Itachi said, _but thats because Sasuke cant use the jutsu like the original owner (note one use drained Sasuke but *Orochimaru showed no signs of exhaustion from using it up  to 3 times *[1st  Occasion] [2nd - Occasion] [3rd - Occasion - in fact, he even was able to use Oral Rebirth whilst his body was giving up on him, and didn't show signs of chakra exhaustion here either {whereas Sasuke was drained for doing exactly the same thing, and used it slowly and sloppily, whilst Orochimaru's was swift and efficient, as you saw in the Chapter 584 scan I just linked you to}] the same way Sharingan is taxing for Kakashi, but not at all for blood Uchihas.

There is no evidence to suggest Oral Rebirth is taxing_ *for Orochimaru. *Obviously every ones chakra has a limit, but nothing suggests Orochi can only use it say 3 times. 
_
And I don't see what a Kunai is meant to do to Orochimaru when he can survive death via Oral Rebirth (Kabuto's chakra scalpel 'killed' Orochimaru's human form - we see his eye fade here as if he'd died, and both Kabuto and Tsunade even said chakra scalpel to the neck can kill, plus he survived bisection, among a load of other things as I Illustrated in the spoiler tag at the start of this message, and Minato has no feats for "cutting someone to peaces" anyway)



> Part 1 Edo Hokage shouldnt be a problem, obviously.


I'll give you that one.



> Minato mid-easy diffs.


Behave yourself please.
Minato high-extreme diffs.

Even if he could "cut him into peaces pieces" all that will happen is this, unfortunately, and if Minato continues cutting, this (***) or this could happen via the White Snake Form of Orochimaru.

Honestly, Minato might not even win this. I'm sure @HandfullofNaruto, @Isaiah13000 and maybe @UchihaX28 will also understand why Orochimaru might come out on top here.

So as @HandfullofNaruto said/implied. Fushi Tensei GG unless Minato can think of another way to kill Orochimaru, which he can't, so Orochimaru takes this Extreme (Higher End) Difficulty. So the highest difficulty possible basically. Minato is just too limited offensively. I heard someone say something about Oodama Rasengan but Orochimaru's body can tank part of this explosion and Manda's body can tank a portion of this explosion, plus Orochimaru can phase-underground and , and even use  to  Minato's movements., which makes speed a non-factor (which I proved with the manga whilst @Kyu went against the manga [evidence which I later provided] by saying Orochimaru's poison is featless, which overall is quite ironic really). And even if he landed Hiraishin-Rasengan, it could not detach an arm less durable than Orochimaru's, and he can regenerate his wounds/mortal injuries anyway.

Minato is slightly stronger than (as in a sub-tier above) Orochimaru, but sadly he's gonna fall into one trap or another. Even Sasuke Uchiha, who (as you saw in the scan in the post earlier where I talked about Orochimaru's poison's feats) was both immunised (to some degree) against poisons, was compared to the Sannin-scientist himself in terms of intelligence, and had the perceptive/precognitive abilities of the Sharingan, and furthermore even did research on Orochimaru and snakes in general before their final confronatation in Otogakure's Eastern Base, was able to easily and cluelessly fall into that trap, so Minato defintely will too.

Furthermore, Minato does not have a legitimate way of dealing with Orochimaru's signature summon, Manda. Manda > Gamabunta. People tend to use the sealing argument but forget that Manda is not a piece of chakra in animal form like Kurama and the Bijuu. He is just a snake. So Hakke Fuin can't be used to deal with him unless someone wants to prove to me that you can use Fuinjutsu to seal someone's body into any old object, be it a blunt pencil or a pair of old dirty underwear. And Manda is a troublesome summon that can be used to distract Minato, even if only for short amounts of time.

And to finally conclude, last of all, Contract Seal dealt with Obito's control over Kurama because he turned off Sharingan control. Kurama was not made to fight for the Uchiha, but Edo Tenseis are summoned to fight for the user. It is in the  in the data-book. Hiruzen, the student of the technique's creator knew that he would have to fight them no matter what, even before Orochimaru placed the Fuda Seals in (all they do is wipe out the personalities of the summoned deceased), and this was the same Hiruzen who knew every jutsu in Konoha so arguably could use Minato's Contract Seal he most likely learnt from Kushina. And even if Minato could take away Orochimaru's control over them, Orochimaru could just over-rewrite it by placing another Fuda Tag inside the summoned corpses, just as Kabuto was going to do, to overwrite Kotoamatsukami's control over Edo Itachi.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

*Orochimaru wins this.*

*Spoiler*: _Lol at Orochimaru going down to Kunai_ 








Is that the end of the discussion, or are there any rebuttals/questions/queries?

Just remember:

*Spoiler*: __ 











WorldsStrongest said:


> Theres a reason oro got passed over to become the 4th, minato is simply gooder, all there is to it.




*Spoiler*: _No, Orochimaru was passed over because he lacked the Will of Fire/was greedy and selfish, had other goals in life and wouldn't put the village first._ 



Orochimaru was not lacking in the strength/skill/experience department. If anything he was superior in that department. Minato even admitted it. 




Not only was Orochimaru the primary candidate for Yondaime Hokage, but Minato was believed to be the only one capable of defeating Prime Orochimaru.

*Spoiler*: _Anko and Hiruzen admitted it too, so it's funny how you tried to use this scan against Orochimaru and in Minato's favour, when in reality it only indicates Orochimaru is closer to Minato in strength than most are willing to accept/believe_ 



.




The counters to the rest of your post are in my previous of these two posts. Sorry about the double post by the way. I had too many images to post. Anyway that should be all.

*Any challengers to my debates?*

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> *Orochimaru wins this.*
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Lol at Orochimaru going down to Kunai_
> 
> ...



I have only one thing to say, your arguments, while they are well thought out and articulated, give me a headache to read...wayyy too much orange text lol


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> I have only one thing to say, your arguments, while they are well thought out and articulated, give me a headache to read...wayyy too much orange text lol




... Okay ...
Just like the same excuse Itachi fans used when the Orochimaru vs Itachi debates were a hot topic. Funny thing is I don't even have any orange text. I have red, blue and pink/purple. And not a lot of it. You tried in some way to criticise my post (not even the argument inside it lol) and even then, your claims were invalid. So please, my boy, have a seat in the darkest corner of the room.

Another person's excuse to not reply to my arguments. Are my posts on this forum that good?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 3


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> ... Okay ...
> Just like the same excuse Itachi fans used when the Orochimaru vs Itachi debates were a hot topic. Funny thing is I don't even have any orange text. I have red, blue and pink/purple. And not a lot of it. You tried in some way to criticise my post (not even the argument inside it lol) and even then, your claims were invalid. So please, my boy, have a seat in the darkest corner of the room.
> 
> Another person's excuse to not reply to my arguments. Are my posts on this forum that good?



Dude you really need to calm down, i was agreeing with your post, not saying it was stupid or anything. The orange text i was referring 2, were your links to the scans you provided, just a little levity is all.

No need to be condescending when i was agreeing with your claims.

I can somewhat understand the confusion as i meant to quote your previous post, not the one i actually quoted.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> *Spoiler*: _Yes, durability._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This one


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

Minato can get rid of the Edo so that won't be a problem. Otherwise Orochi doesn't have much fast enough to land a ht on Minato while Minato doesn't really have anything to put Orochi down for good so imo it'll come down to either Minato landing a sealing jutsu to take out Orochi or Orochi going into his true form and poisoning Minato once he get cut/beat up and then finished off. I'd say it could go either way depending on how the battle plays out


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

Gohara said:


> I'm not a big fan of those terms, but it's true that mindsets should be taken into consideration, and both were hindered to some degree.  So I can see what you mean when you say that it's not an entirely fair representation of how powerful they are compared to each other.


Im not a fan of those terms either but I can't deny its presence. Even you can see why I brought it up.





> Still, to me Orochimaru's portrayal wasn't anything similar to that of any of the most powerful Kages. More powerful than the average Kage possibly, but I think that pretty much any of the top tier Kages can defeat him.


Healthy Orochimarus initial portrayal was pretty significant bordering on "powerful kage". The only people ones who could take on Healthy Orochimaru were Yondaime Hokage (a powerful Kage) & Sandaime Hokage (a powerful. Kage). Aside from that Orochimaru was casually taking on other Kage level opponents: whatever though. 





> I consider Jiraiya to be more of a power house and I would say that Minato is more powerful than Jiraiya. Minato is, IMO, one of the most powerful Normal Ninjas.


Im not too sure what you mean by "Normal Ninja"


StarWanderer said:


> Durability?
> Dude, Itachi cut Oro's arm off with a simple Kunai. Minato can cut Oro to peaces if he wants to.


Im not going  to elaborate on how dumb that is.





> Renegeration will help Orochimaru, of course, but he will run out of chakra eventually, or will get sealed.


Eh





> Part 1 Edo Hokage shouldnt be a problem, obviously.


Okay.





> Minato mid-easy diffs.


Yea okay whatever.
@IzayaOrihara kind of took the fun out of responding to this lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Dude you really need to calm down, i was agreeing with your post, not saying it was stupid or anything.


I understand that and I am very calm. I know you agreed, but I feel like you're just trying to bring me down for nothing. But I apologise if you were offended, and also apologise if orange text hurts your eyes or something (not that I used any orange) because i know certain colours can hurt people. For example yellow text hurts my eyes.

As for you @UchihaX28 and @Bonly, feel free to cower behind others and dislike my post rather than speak up and stand on your own two legs. The forner of you two clearly has little relevance to this debate so why input. As for the latter, you've something to say so I'll take a look at that.


Bonly said:


> Minato can get rid of the Edo so that won't be a problem.


And Orochimaru can get them back so that won't be a problem.


> Otherwise Orochi doesn't have much fast enough to land a ht on Minato


Who says he needs to be fast enough? He can just paralyse him if he wants so that speed doesn't become a factor.


> while Minato doesn't really have anything to put Orochi down for good


Correct


> so imo it'll come down to either Minato landing a sealing jutsu to take out Orochi


Which can not happen as I explained earlier.


> or Orochi going into his true form and poisoning Minato once he get cut/beat up and then finished off.


That is likely to occur, based on Minato's fighting style. And one more thing I forgot is, Sasuke is immune to poison. He didn't die from inhaling the neurotoxin even though he couldn't overcome the paralysis agent weaved into the intricate chemical toxin, but Minato, who has no resistance to poison whatsoever will quickly die as a result of the neurotoxin inhalation into his bloodstream. So Fushi Tensei in that situation wouldn't even be required to make this a GG, though he could bite Minato's head off just as an extra precaution. And also, Minato won't be able to teleport to escape as poison shuts down the ability to use chakra (as we saw with Sasori in Part 2 and Orochimaru post-gaiden - I'm sure there are other examples I can't think of right now), not that it matters as Minato will still be downed, crawling away in the bushes as he dies slowly (or rather quickly actually) as a result of the poison.


> I'd say it could go either way depending on how the battle plays out


I agree, but come on, its like 51% Orochi's favour and 49% chance for Minato. Minato's lack of offence combined with Orochi's overkill defence capabilities tips this in his favours. Anything you do to him, be it take away control of his Edos or rip off his arm, he can just reverse the damage done, and thats what I love so much about my favourite character's fighting style. His diversity and defensive capabilities.



> The orange text i was referring 2, were your links to the scans you provided, just a little levity is all.


Well, call me out for the red and blue if you want, but the links on this site are always orange and I can't change/control that. Take this issue up with the administrators because I will always be using orange links when there is no space for scans (only 20 images per post remember) but sorry for the inconvenience anyway. I always want my posts to be an enjoyable read.



> No need to be condescending when i was agreeing with your claims.


I'm sorry.

Can you forgive me?



> I can somewhat understand the confusion as i meant to quote your previous post, not the one i actually quoted.


That makes sense.

At least we've cleared all that up. 

So can we all agree who wins this now?


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> As for you @UchihaX28 and @Bonly, feel free to cower behind others and dislike my post rather than speak up and stand on your own two legs.



There's not much to speak up on. I've asked you multiple times before in the past to use a spoiler tag if you're gonna post a large image since it stretches out the page and can make loading up a page take forever. You chose not to so you get a dislike, nothing more, nothing less.



> And Orochimaru can get them back so that won't be a problem.



Not once Minato seals them.



> Who says he needs to be fast enough? He can just paralyse him if he wants so that speed doesn't become a factor.



That requires him to poison Minato which I can only see happening if he uses his true form which I mentioned later in the post, otherwise he'd need speed to hit Minato, something he doesn't have.



> Which can not happen as I explained earlier.



I've yet to see a good reason why it can't happen


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## DaVizWiz (Oct 3, 2016)

@Icegaze had it right.

Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm off with a kunai, Minato's cutting power is even greater considering he cut right through Killer Bee's extension tentacle as it was speeding toward him.

He can continue to cut his body up until he can't regenerate anymore or no longer has the chakra to do so.

Senpo Odama Rasengan also has a chance of obliterating his head on contact, considering Naruto completely shattered Asura Path's body with a mere senpo palm rasengan and a normal palm rasengan is equal to Chidori, adding Senjutsu to it increaes it's power considerably, making it bigger (odama) also increases it's power considerably.

Other options are 4 symbols or 8 trigrams to seal him, or warping him off the battlefield via his safehouse being marked or he sends him to obito who warps him low diff as both the evil and good version, he just dispised him overall. This is presuming Orochimaru goes Hydra and the cuts and Rasengan obviously aren't doing it.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonly said:


> There's not much to speak up on. I've asked you multiple times before in the past to use a spoiler tag if you're gonna post a large image since it stretches out the page and can make loading up a page take forever.


Ok ... whatever. I guess you forgot about my first two messages where I had dozens of scans sealed in a spoiler tag. But yeah, whatever.



> You chose not to so you get a dislike, nothing more, nothing less.


A bit petty, but then again Itachi fanboys have always been that way even when the thread isn't about him. 
*Spoiler*: _And also:_ 






There! I used a spoiler tag (yet again ...). Are you happy now?



> Not once Minato seals them.


 Care to *Explain* how, where and why he will do this, because I explained why this would not be the case.



> That requires him to poison Minato which I can only see happening if he uses his true form which I mentioned later in the post, otherwise he'd need speed to hit Minato, something he doesn't have.


But ... isn't it Minato who hits Oro with a cut causing the poison to be released? And didn't I explain how Orochimaru's Paralysis Jutsu negates the speed advantage?



> I've yet to see a good reason why it can't happen


Why what can't happen?



DaVizWiz said:


> @Icegaze had it right.
> 
> Itachi cut Orochimaru's arm off with a kunai, Minato's cutting power is even greater considering he cut right through Killer Bee's extension tentacle as it was speeding toward him.
> 
> ...


No need to respond to this (you neither @HandfullofNaruto) seeing as it completely ignores everything from my previous post.



Turrin said:


> Minato is portrayed far enough above Orochimaru that even *giving Orochimaru the advantage of Prep *for Edo-Tensei is unlikely to change the ultimate outcome of the battle.


I hate this so much. The whole prep time/advantage nonsense. Its either that or its that ET is a cheat. Its Orochi's technique. He came to Konoha prepared to use it. Its not any more of an advantage than Jiraiya having Gamabunta on call or Tenten having her ninja tools sharpened before battle. I don't get why its always seen as some special condition we have to grant Orochimaru. All his other fights in the manga he had no arms so obviously thats why he didnt use Edo Tensei then, but anyway whatever.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> . Aside from that Orochimaru was casually taking on other Kage level opponents:


And he took out Hiruzen easily too. Lets not forget Oro held back, seeing as his arsenal is not limited to:

Part 1 level Edo Tensei
Senei Jashu x 1
Kusanagi (+ Ku no Tachi)
Orochimaru legit only used 3 jutsu the whole fight. Orochimaru easily handled other Kage level opponents (even while heavily nerfed), such as Jiraiya, Tsunade and Pre-Hebi Sasuke (is he Kage Level?) to name a few.



> @IzayaOrihara kind of took the fun out of responding to this lol.



*Spoiler*: __ 




I'm sorry.



Lol though! I solo any Orochimaru thread with hardcore precision. I just feel like it's my duty (as his biggest fan) to do so.

Reactions: Like 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> And he took out Hiruzen easily too. Lets not forget Oro held back, seeing as his arsenal is not limited to:
> 
> Part 1 level Edo Tensei
> Senei Jashu x 1
> ...


Hahahahaha I know, he was literally acting ridiculous that can hardly be considered a battle lol.

Oh yes, the Nerfed Sannin Fight. Nobody knows how to gauge that fight since everybody was significantly disadvantaged (though Orochimaru being more disadvantaged than the rest.) It's definitely some solid portrayal though. Orochimaru > Jiraiya > Tsunade > Orochimaru
I don't think Hebi Sauce is Kage Level...... maybe if we're counting Orochimaru busting out of his shoulder to use Yamata.... I guess maybe he could be Kage level.


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Ok ... whatever. I guess you forgot about my first two messages where I had dozens of scans sealed in a spoiler tag. But yeah, whatever.



No I saw them which makes me wonder why you sudden forgot what a spoiler tag is.



> A bit petty, but then again Itachi fanboys have always been that way even when the thread isn't about him.
> *Spoiler*: _And also:_
> 
> 
> ...



No it's not a bit petty, it's actually  very petty and no I'm not happy, I'm very very happy now, thank you



> Care to *Explain* how, where and why he will do this, because I explained why this would not be the case.



The jutsu he used to put Kurama into Naruto, I forgot it's name but I believe it starts with a H, I'll look it up in a bit



> But ... isn't it Minato who hits Oro with a cut causing the poison to be released? And didn't I explain how Orochimaru's Paralysis Jutsu negates the speed advantage?



When Orochi is in his true form? Yes. You didn't mention any paralysis jutsu to me.



> Why what can't happen?



Minato being unable to seal Orochi


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Oh yes, the Nerfed Sannin Fight. Nobody knows how to gauge that fight since everybody was significantly disadvantaged (though Orochimaru being more disadvantaged than the rest.) It's definitely some solid portrayal though. Orochimaru > Jiraiya > Tsunade > Orochimaru


Even so, Nerfed Sannin, are still Kage-Level Shinobi (Low Kage, as in Chiyo/Hidan level or even higher whilst Sannin at full power are High-Tier Kage with the likes of Itachi, Sasori, Minato etc) and Orochimaru was handling them both at the same time (K.Oed Jiraiya and went straight to raping Tsunade, even before he had Manda called out for assistance, in which case he still held equal ground despite eventually being outnumbered, leading to his downfall).

Reactions: Like 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonly said:


> No I saw them which makes me wonder why you sudden forgot what a spoiler tag is.


I did not forget. I just saw no need to enclose one little image, which is different from posting like 16 manga pages in succession.


> No it's not a bit petty, it's actually  very petty and no I'm not happy, I'm very very happy now, thank you


I'm warning you now.


> The jutsu he used to put Kurama into Naruto, I forgot it's name but I believe it starts with a H, I'll look it up in a bit


Hakke Fuin is the name. Fuinjutsu is used to seal chakra ie Gogyo Fuin sealing away Naruto's access to Kyuubi reserves. Thats why Bijuu can be sealed (they are giant masses of chakra that just look like animals because thats the form they got when Rikudo breathed life (Yang) into the chakra (Yin) he ended up with when he split the Juubi. That does not mean purely physical things such as people can be sealed in the same way, unless it were a scroll (ie you can seal objects like ninja tools or even corpses and even amaterasu flames inside them) which has a seal formula prepared on it. But, Minato would not be able to e.g. seal a human inside a pencil or seal a human into Naruto's belly like he did with a Bijuu. That is not how it works. Unless you want to bring scans to prove otherwise. The knly time physical objects such as rock and humans were at risk of being sealed was when Danzo used what is interestingly called Reverse Hakke/Ura Shisho Fuin (suggesting the original which Minato uses can not do the same) on Tobi and Sasuke, and the seals appeared on his chest to absorb the content. In this fight Minato hasn't anything prepared for which he could seal Orochimaru in, nor a means by which he can shut a human away in an object like a genie into a lamp (this has never happened in the Naruto series, ever), unless my friend, you'd like to bring proof for your argument.


> When Orochi is in his true form? Yes. You didn't mention any paralysis jutsu to me.


Yes I did.
Go and read my second reply to this thread. Or better yet, I'll cut and paste (not that I should have to - I dont type these messages just so that people can ignore them).

Here you go:


IzayaOrihara said:


> So as @HandfullofNaruto said/implied. Fushi Tensei GG unless Minato can think of another way to kill Orochimaru, which he can't, so Orochimaru takes this Extreme (Higher End) Difficulty. So the highest difficulty possible basically. Minato is just too limited offensively. I heard someone say something about Oodama Rasengan but Orochimaru's body can tank part of this explosion and Manda's body can tank a portion of this explosion, plus Orochimaru can phase-underground and , and even use  to  Minato's movements., which makes speed a non-factor (which I proved with the manga whilst @Kyu went against the manga [evidence which I later provided] by saying Orochimaru's poison is featless, which overall is quite ironic really). And even if he landed Hiraishin-Rasengan, it could not detach an arm less durable than Orochimaru's, and he can regenerate his wounds/mortal injuries anyway.


That was the paragraph directly after the part where I talked about the poisons. In that section is everything relevant to the main issue (how Minato can kill Orochi/the paralysis jutsu and all that) we are discussing right now.

And you asked "when is Orochi in his true form" - when Minato cuts him up/Rasengans his body to the point that human body 'dies' (which will take a huge while thanks to durability and regeneration) and he chooses to revert to his true form - his white snake body. When Minato attacks this, it will bleed, the poisonous fluid will evaporate, and Minato will die after a painful period of paralysis. It's inevitable that this happens really since Minato's offensive arsenal is limited to Kunai and Rasengan. Gamabunta is the only alternative/back up artillery he has, which becomes an instant non factor thanks to Manda. Neither becomes a factor anyway if this battle is taking place in the same location as Orochimaru vs Hiruzen.



> Minato being unable to seal Orochi


Well now I've explained in full why that can not happen (in the way you think it would). Hakke Fuin is not Gogyo Fuin so has no use on humans. Hakke Fuin only stores masses of chakra in suitable/prepared objects.


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Hakke Fuin is the name. Fuinjutsu is used to seal chakra ie Gogyo Fuin sealing away Naruto's access to Kyuubi reserves. Thats why Bijuu can be sealed (they are giant masses of chakra that just look like animals because thats the form they got when Rikudo breathed life (Yang) into the chakra (Yin) he ended up with when he split the Juubi. That does not mean purely physical things such as people can be sealed in the same way, unless it were a scroll (ie you can seal objects like ninja tools or even corpses and even amaterasu flames inside them) which has a seal formula prepared on it. But, Minato would not be able to e.g. seal a human inside a pencil or seal a human into Naruto's belly like he did with a Bijuu. That is not how it works. Unless you want to bring scans to prove otherwise. The knly time physical objects such as rock and humans were at risk of being sealed was when Danzo used what is interestingly called Reverse Hakke/Ura Shisho Fuin (suggesting the original which Minato uses can not do the same) on Tobi and Sasuke, and the seals appeared on his chest to absorb the content. In this fight Minato hasn't anything prepared for which he could seal Orochimaru in, nor a means by which he can shut a human away in an object like a genie into a lamp (this has never happened in the Naruto series, ever), unless my friend, you'd like to bring proof for your argument.



Sorry I meant _Shishou Fuuin




			Four Images Seal (四象封印, Shishou Fuuin)
Fuuinjutsu, No rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
User: Yondaime Hokage

A sealing formula that seals evil using a circle four images!!

As the result of a fuuinjutsu, a sealing formula is carved into, for instance, a human body or an object. The "Four Images Seal" is one of these. This sealing formula is mainly used when a giant enemy or evil spirit needs to be sealed. To use it, it is necessary for the user to have great ability. In Naruto, two of these "Four Images Seals" have been carved. This is called an "Eight Trigrams Sealing-style"*.

[picture of an infant Naruto with the freshly carved Kyuubi seal on his stomach]
→On Naruto's abdomen is the "Sealing Formula of the Kyuubi." The Yondaime Hokage performed it on the infant Naruto.

*Eight Trigrams Sealing-style (八卦の封印式, Hakke no Fuuin-shiki)
		
Click to expand...

_
Nowhere in the DB nor the manga has it been stated or implied that it can only be used on things made of chakra. 



> Yes I did.
> Go and read my second reply to this thread.



Your reply to the thread is not a reply to me so no you didn't. As for that jutsu, it's not gonna stop Minato's use of Hiraishin which allows him to avoid Orochi's attacks if Anko could still talk and give orders.


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> I understand that and I am very calm. I know you agreed, but I feel like you're just trying to bring me down for nothing. But I apologise if you were offended, and also apologise if orange text hurts your eyes or something (not that I used any orange) because i know certain colours can hurt people. For example yellow text hurts my eyes.
> 
> As for you @UchihaX28 and @Bonly, feel free to cower behind others and dislike my post rather than speak up and stand on your own two legs. The forner of you two clearly has little relevance to this debate so why input. As for the latter, you've something to say so I'll take a look at that.
> 
> ...





IzayaOrihara said:


> I understand that and I am very calm. I know you agreed, but I feel like you're just trying to bring me down for nothing. But I apologise if you were offended, and also apologise if orange text hurts your eyes or something (not that I used any orange) because i know certain colours can hurt people. For example yellow text hurts my eyes.
> 
> As for you @UchihaX28 and @Bonly, feel free to cower behind others and dislike my post rather than speak up and stand on your own two legs. The forner of you two clearly has little relevance to this debate so why input. As for the latter, you've something to say so I'll take a look at that.
> 
> ...



Its all good lol as i said it was a post that i agreed with and it was very well laid out, only pointed out the color of the text for a joke as i said when i referenced levity. The orange doesnt actually hurt my eyes, as i said it was just a joke.

Reactions: Like 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

@Bonly 
If that Jutsu could seal humans (the most relevent enemy in this manga) why would the manga & databook fail to mention this fact? It's not something that's just implicit, its a complicated sealing Jutsu that was used to seal Kyubi, if it could seal humans into Minatos jacket or whatever the fuck I'm sure that it would be mentioned.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Transcendent Shinobi (Oct 3, 2016)

Minato has nothing to finish Orochimaru. Unless he wants to stalemate and use the death god technique. Call me  crazy but I can see oro tanking Rasanegan all day.

Also Minato can't enhance his techniques with SM because per cannon he admitted to not being able to use it for battle.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> @Bonly
> If that Jutsu could seal humans (the most relevent enemy in this manga) why would the manga & databook fail to mention this fact? It's not something that's just implicit, its a complicated sealing Jutsu that was used to seal Kyubi, if it could seal humans into Minatos jacket or whatever the fuck I'm sure that it would be mentioned.



Why would it need to specifically mentions humans? If the DB doesn't put a limitation on what can be sealed on it, why would you assume that humans aren't included?


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## hbcaptain (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> @Bonly
> If that Jutsu could seal humans (the most relevent enemy in this manga) why would the manga & databook fail to mention this fact? It's not something that's just implicit, its a complicated sealing Jutsu that was used to seal Kyubi, if it could seal humans into Minatos jacket or whatever the fuck I'm sure that it would be mentioned.


Minato sealed both his chakra and Kushina's inside Naruto, end of thread.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonly said:


> Why would it need to specifically mentions humans?


because it's only used on........ not humans





> If the DB doesn't put a limitation on what can be sealed on it, why would you assume that humans aren't included?


Lack of evidence isn't evidence. Just because they don't say "It will not work on Humans" doesn't mean it will work on humans. Considering humans are the most relevant enemy, I don't see why the Manga & Databook would just skip that information. 

I don't know..... it's whatever.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Minato sealed both his chakra and Kushina's inside Naruto, end of thread.


Chakra. He didn't seal a human.


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> because it's only used on........ not humans



Where is that stated?



> Lack of evidence isn't evidence. Just because they don't say "It will not work on Humans" doesn't mean it will work on humans. Considering humans are the most relevant enemy, I don't see why the Manga & Databook would just skip that information.
> 
> I don't know..... it's whatever.



Nothing states that it won't work on humans. You base your doubt purely on the fact that humans aren't mention in the DB specifically and yet multiple DB description fail to mention humans in them. Now if we was to only take the DB, would you say that  Chidori,Raikiri,_and Suiton: Daibakufu_ for example can't be used on humans simply because humans weren't specifically listed in the DB?


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 3, 2016)

Bonly said:


> As for that jutsu, it's not gonna stop Minato's use of Hiraishin which allows him to avoid Orochi's attacks if Anko could still talk and give orders.


He used it on Sasuke, not Anko, and he was frozen still. Did you even read the text I sent you/open the links? Ugh, this is hopeless. @HandfullofNaruto, please take over (thanks for already doing so with the arguments revolving around Fuinjutsu). I'm off to bed. Have a good night y'all.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> He used it on Sasuke, not Anko, and he was frozen still. Did you even read the text I sent you/open the links? Ugh, this is hopeless. @HandfullofNaruto, please take over (thanks for already doing so with the arguments revolving around Fuinjutsu). I'm off to bed. Have a good night y'all.


Ill think about it. While hopeless is my specialty I'm not really interested in this debate. Though since _you_ asked me to take over, I'll consider it.

@Bonly I'll respond to your last post because I owe you that much but I'm not sure if I'll continue this debate. We'll see.


Bonly said:


> Where is that stated?


Its feats. It has never been used to seal a human, if it has please bring the scan and I'll gladly concede. Aside from the fact it's never been used to seal a human, it's never implied that it can seal a human in the Manga or the databook.





> Nothing states that it won't work on humans. You base your doubt purely on the fact that humans aren't mention in the DB specifically and yet multiple DB description fail to mention humans in them.


Its only feat is sealing chakra and to support this the databook says it's mainly used for sealing... monsters not "anyone into anything" the way people think Minatos sealing works. The fact it fails to mention it can seal humans in addition to the fact its only feats are sealing chakra is enough for me to come to the conclusion that sealing human beings isn't how this Jutsu functions. 





> Now if we was to only take the DB, would you say that  Chidori,Raikiri,_and Suiton: Daibakufu_ for example can't be used on humans simply because humans weren't specifically listed in the DB?


That's stupid because we can look at the feats.

In the unlikely event that Minato can completely seal a human into his jacket he'd need full knowledge to come to such a colorful conclusion.
Also in the unlikely event that Minato can completely seal a Human into a strand of hair, Orochimaru can just break his seal as per usual: Again, in the unlikely event that Minato can seal a human into a piece of shit on the floor why hasn't he ever done it before? He's had opportunities to display the skill or at least imply that he had it. 
I don't know.... I just don't care that much.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Bonly (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Also in the unlikely event that Minato can completely seal a Human into a strand of hair, Orochimaru can just break his seal as per usual:



Orochi had to do research over two years on the reaper specifically in order to break so unless you have some proof that he would be able to break out of a this seal, I have no reason to buy it.



> Again, in the unlikely event that Minato can seal a human into a piece of shit on the floor why hasn't he ever done it before? He's had opportunities to display the skill or at least imply that he had it.
> I don't know.... I just don't care that much.



Minato had opportunities to show off his elemental jutsu and yet he has done it either. Can you explain why he hasn't used any or is it a case that the DB is wrong and he doesn't have because he didn't use them? It's simple, he hasn't need to in the very few fights he's been. What ninja has he gone up against *on panel* did he fight that he couldn't find a way to deal with them throughout the fight?

I accept your concession on the rest on your bias logic of human not specifically being mentioned when humans aren't specifically mentioned in over 90+ percent of the DB jutsu descriptions even though, as you would say "Considering humans are the most relevant enemy".

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gohara (Oct 3, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Orochimarus initial portrayal was pretty significant bordering on "powerful kage". The only people ones who could take on Healthy Orochimaru were Yondaime Hokage (a powerful Kage) & Sandaime Hokage (a powerful. Kage). Aside from that Orochimaru was casually taking on other Kage level opponents



The only characters out of who?  Do you mean out of all characters in the series or just those in The Leaf Village?  Are you including all Eras in that or just the Eras in the main storylines?  If you're referring to the Kages, I would also nominate A as a Kage from the Era of the main storylines as a candidate who can defeat Orochimaru.  Possibly Old Onoki as well, but that's debatable.  I do agree that Orochimaru is > Gaara for most of the series (Gaara might have surpassed Orochimaru at the end of the series or after the series' main storylines but it's unclear if that's the case) as well as that Orochimaru is > Rasa and arguably > Mei.  However, I consider Rasa to be one of the weakest Kages.  The Third Kazekage, like Rasa, was also defeated off screen except he was defeated by Sasori instead of Orochimaru.  Sasori is powerful but I wouldn't consider him to be in the same league of power as any of the most powerful Kages, and The Third Kazekage > Rasa.  I also consider Mei to be one of the less powerful Kages that we've seen so far.  She just lacks the feats and portrayal that a lot of other Kages have.  Out of all the Kages whose level of power that we know of, I think that we can name more Kages who are likely more powerful than Orochimaru than we can Kages that are likely weaker than Orochimaru.  The Kazekages and Mei are the only ones that I can think of that I would say are likely weaker than Orochimaru.  I would say that The Second Mizukage, Mu, Prime Onoki, The Third Raikage, A, Hashirama, Tobirama, Prime Sarutobi, and Minato are all likely more powerful than Orochimaru though.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Im not too sure what you mean by "Normal Ninja"



Basically any character outside of The God Characters (Rikudo Sennin and his Family, Judara, Jubito, Juubi, etc.), Naruto, and Sasuke.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 3, 2016)

Gohara said:


> The only characters out of who? Do you mean out of all characters in the series or just those in The Leaf Village? Are you including all Eras in that or just the Eras in the main storylines?


I meant direct comparisons. His pure portrayal. He was compared to Prime Hiruzen & Minato both of which are "powerful kage" "high-tier" Kage level shinobi. He was casually taking out other Kage level opponents like the Kazekage. He took out old Hiruzen using only three of his own Jutsu. It isn't a stretch to say Healthy Orochimaru is bordering High-Kage level. 





> If you're referring to the Kages, I would also nominate A as a Kage from the Era of the main storylines as a candidate who can defeat Orochimaru.  Possibly Old Onoki as well, but that's debatable.  I do agree that Orochimaru is > Gaara for most of the series (Gaara might have surpassed Orochimaru at the end of the series or after the series' main storylines but it's unclear if that's the case) as well as that Orochimaru is > Rasa and arguably > Mei.  However, I consider Rasa to be one of the weakest Kages.  The Third Kazekage, like Rasa, was also defeated off screen except he was defeated by Sasori instead of Orochimaru. Sasori is powerful but I wouldn't consider him to be in the same league of power as any of the most powerful Kages, and The Third Kazekage > Rasa.  I also consider Mei to be one of the less powerful Kages that we've seen so far.  She just lacks the feats and portrayal that a lot of other Kages have.  Out of all the Kages whose level of power that we know of, I think that we can name more Kages who are likely more powerful than Orochimaru than we can Kages that are likely weaker than Orochimaru. The Kazekages and Mei are the only ones that I can think of that I would say are likely weaker than Orochimaru. I would say that The Second Mizukage, Mu, Prime Onoki, The Third Raikage, A, Hashirama, Tobirama, Prime Sarutobi, and Minato are all likely more powerful than Orochimaru though.


Thats a discussion for a different day and different thread. 





> Basically any character outside of The God Characters (Rikudo Sennin and his Family, Judara, Jubito, Juubi, etc.), Naruto, and Sasuke.


Ah, I see.


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## Gohara (Oct 4, 2016)

Ah, my bad, I misunderstood.  When was he compared to Minato and Prime Sarutobi in terms of power again?  I personally don't remember that to be honest but to be fair it's been a while since I've read/watched Naruto.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 4, 2016)

Gohara said:


> Ah, my bad, I misunderstood. When was he compared to Minato and Prime Sarutobi in terms of power again? I personally don't remember that to be honest but to be fair it's been a while since I've read/watched Naruto.



Like I said the portrayal is strong but pulling feats from that fight is ridiculous there is too much CIS/PIS. There is a point where Orochimaru is literally begging to show him his Jutsu.  Orochimaru clearly could have killed Hiruzen had he been serious during that battle.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2016)

HandfulofNaruto said:
			
		

> Minato sealed both his chakra and Kushina's inside Naruto, end of thread.


Simply because he chose to, Databook clearly said he can seal anything, never heard about some restrictions.
And again if Orochimaru's chakra is sealed then he will simply die being literally out of chakra.
In fact, sealing isn't even needed since Minato > Oro (Senjutsu user vs non-Senjutsu user) in chakra and immortality techniques are far more taxing, the one who is outlasting is Minato nt Orochimaru.


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Simply because he chose to, Databook clearly said he can seal anything, never heard about some restrictions.
> And again if Orochimaru's chakra is sealed then he will simply die being literally out of chakra.


So he's going to seal all of Orochimarus Chakra into his fingernails and Orochimaru will die from chakra exhaustion? Alright whatever. 





> In fact, sealing isn't even needed since Minato > Oro (Senjutsu user vs non-Senjutsu user) in chakra and immortality techniques are far more taxing, the one who is outlasting is Minato nt Orochimaru.


Hey I'm on the fence about this fight as it is. You go ahead and support Minato I don't care. 
I'd generally lean towards Minato as well but it's not as if Orochimaru is lacking on methods for killing Minato. 

I don't care about this debate all that much.


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## Kyu (Oct 4, 2016)

Transcendent Shinobi said:


> Minato has nothing to finish Orochimaru. Unless he wants to stalemate and use the death god technique. Call me crazy but I can see oro tanking Rasanegan all day.



He's got moves other than Rasengan y'know...


Shishō Fūin - Sealing
Flying Thunder God: transportation - BFR
Magen: Gama Rinshō - Incapacitate


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 4, 2016)

Bonly said:


> Orochi had to do research over two years on the reaper specifically in order to break so unless you have some proof that he would be able to break out of a this seal, I have no reason to buy it.


Shiki Fuujin >>>>>>>>>>> Hakke/Shisho Fuin



Kyu said:


> He's got moves other than Rasengan y'know...
> 
> 
> Shishō Fūin - Sealing
> ...



As @HandfullofNaruto said, Fuinjutsu can't seal a human into a used condom on the floor or a piece of shit on the ground. No evidence/no logic. Now as I am saying - he tagged Obito during hat fight. Twice (FTG Marking + Rasengan later on). If he could just seal a body into his jacket or kunai then why didnt he? Theres a reason why only Orochimaru's soul (arms) was sealed by Shiki Fuujin (and not that the physical arm was stored inside the Shinigami/Death God/Reaper's stomach), or why Gogyo Fuin only blocked Naruto's access to chakra instead of shutting away his entire life force, and why Kyuubi was sealed - its just pieces of chakra, thats why.
BFR? Sorry what is that again? But anyhow, what can he do with teleportation? Take Manda away? He can just slither/burrow back to the battlefield anyway. Or Orochimaru can just summon him again. And Minato will also have Aoda and San Kyodaija (who beat Gamaken and Gamahiro, assuming Minato can even summon them). What else? Take the Edos away? They can run back to the location or Orochimaru can send Aoda/Manda to hurry over and ferry them back to the battlefield. *Orochimaru knows Minato's arsenal.* Tell me what would happen if Minato placed an FTG marking on him, and Orochimaru hid in Manda's mouth (_Minato teleports to Orochimaru and instantly gets swallowed and poisoned, even better if Manda hides underground_)? What if Orochimaru uses Leech All Creation to phase deep into the earth? (_When Minato teleports to him, he appears underground, where his body is completely pulverised_). Orochimaru has a very creative arsenal and a very unique/tactical battle style.
Has Minato ever used Magen: Gamarinsho? He never summoned toads to use Senjutsu in war arc. So no feats. And considering Orochimaru > Jiraiya and beats him like 9/10 times (and Gamarinsho is his strongest technique) I wouldn't bank on it being the jutsu to defeat Orochimaru. Orochimaru can have his Edos break him out of Genjutsu via Partner-Method or could leech deep beneath the ground where soundwaves can't reach him, whilst the Edos (who are Genjutsu immune, as they possess no spinal cord, brain or nervous system as they are dust made zombies, not humans; they even resisted Mugen: Tsukuyomi [the strongest genjutsu of all] in the war arc) can keep Minato busy and knock those toads off his head, with some help from Manda, who can also stay underground and stick his tail up to attack whilst Orochimaru can do the same with Kusanagi. If his attacks cannot hit, then he slyly paralyses Minato, even using Edos to distract then attack for the purpose of . And even if all fails, at some point in the fight, this will inevitably happen, since Minato's arsenal revolves around cutting. And if the poison doesn't kill him, then Shirohebi Orochi bites his head off - literally.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Hey I'm on the fence about this fight as it is. You go ahead and support Minato I don't care.
> I'd generally lean towards Minato as well but it's not as if Orochimaru is lacking on methods for killing Minato.


Exactly. At first I gave Minato the benefit of the doubt and said he wins high end of Extreme-Difficulty, but now I'm done making excuses for the offensively limited blondie, just because he's ..... Minato. Orochimaru instead wins this Extreme (Higher End) Difficulty unless anyone can prove that humans can be sealed into a f*cking strand of grass. He cuts Orochimaru and when true form comes out he gets poisoned. If he uses Contract Seal on the Edo, Orochi overwrites that with another Fuda Tag. Manda beats Gamabunta. Orochimaru (Reduced KN4 TBB) and Manda (a portion of Deidara's C0 ) can tank things stronger than a Rasengan. Manda can deal with Gamabunta's Sword and Orochimaru made a comeback from being bisected by KN4/taking four chakra scalpels to the neck (one to the neck can kill a standard human, as can a hit to the chest from Tsunade which Orochimaru also tanked to the head where his brain is) and also has the diamond-cutting Kusanagi Sword of legend; so Minato's Kunais won't do sh*t here. Orochimaru can phase underground to escape Minato's brittle offence and can stop any defence he tries (which would revolve around evasion as opposed to interception or blocking) as his movements can be halted with a paralysis technique. *Orochimaru-sama wins this.*
*Spoiler*: _And that's just the feats side of the argument. You want portrayal? Here you go_ 






Prime Orochimaru (more or less) = Base Minato (or maybe Minato is slightly stronger, but either way, I'm done making excuses for all his shortcomings. He can't win every match-up just because you want him to, which is what @HandfullofNaruto and myself have successfully illustrated, using logic, manga panels and data-book evidence). This fight should go either way based match-up, and in this particular match-up, Lord Orochimaru wins, and tough luck to Minato fans. Better luck next time. Minato Namikaze can't win every battle.

Reactions: Like 2


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## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> So he's going to seal all of Orochimarus Chakra into his fingernails and Orochimaru will die from chakra exhaustion? Alright whatever. Hey I'm on the fence about this fight as it is. You go ahead and support Minato I don't care.


Do you mean Orochimaru can leave without chakra ?


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 4, 2016)

hbcaptain said:


> Do you mean Orochimaru can leave without chakra ?


No I literally mean *alright whatever*.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 4, 2016)

Not that it matters, as Minato won't be sealing Orochimaru to begin with. Anyhow, whatever, I think that is the end of the debate. Orochimaru wins by feats/portrayal/logic/realisticness. Minato wins based on excuses/lack of logic & evidence/baseless arguments.

But just remember:
If Sasuke's [Raiton/Katon/Kenjutsu] attacks (or Kabuto's one-hit-kill chakra scalpel or Tsunade's one-hit-kill punch or Naruto's one-hit-kill KN4 laser beam reduced blast-crater forming explosion) can't kill him, then I don't see why Minato's dusty Kunai knives can, or his underdeveloped Rasengan (which Part 1 Naruto mastered in a week whilst it took Minato 3 years, the same Part 1 Naruto that Orochimaru defeated easily). So mods can lock this now as it is clear who has won this debate. I, @IzayaOrihara cluded dozens of links to manga panels/actual manga scannings/data-book evidence to support my arguments, whilst @HandfullofNaruto handled the logic side of the arguments (mainly where Fuinjutsu is concerned) and did the deeper research and thinking I couldn't be bothered to do during the A.M. hours of last night, whereas all the others either made basless claims (@Bonly/@hbcaptain and @Grimmjow) or argued against the manga (@Kyu) in the most uneducated way/the most ironic fashions (ironic because while he said Orochimaru's poison was featless, which I proved to be untrue, he went on to wank Minato's speed, which I illustrated a perfect counter for). So let's just end this on a positive note before this thread starts to deteriorate. Naruto Battledome Moderator @Saru please lock this thread now. I strongly advise that you do so immediately.

_EDIT:_
*My final comment to Minato supporters:*

Jiraiya was killed by Pain after having his arm injured, then ripped off by Asura, and then had his neck crushed after a huge struggle.
Tsunade as of yet has not been killed due to her regeneration which overcame some of Orochimaru (Kusanagi), Pain (f*cking Chou Shinra Tensei - in fact, she tanked that, Yin Seal ran out by then) and Madara's (V3 Susanoo Sword/Yasaka Magatama/Katon: Ryuen Houka no Jutsu) best offense.
Prime Orochimaru has only ever gone down to Shiki Fuujin whilst Deathbed Orochimaru has only been defeated by having his own Fushi Tensei turned against him, and Nerfed Orochimaru went down to Totsuka under rigged circumstances (whilst he bodied the residue of a KN4 Tailed Beast Bomb explosion, tanked KN3's attacks and regenerated from KN4's damage, tanked Tsunade's punch, made a comeback from a bisection at the waist and taking four chakra scalpels to the neck from a medical ninja whose prowess with that jutsu rivalled Tsunade's in her prime).
So how anyone thought Minato with a Kunai in one hand and a standard Part 1 level Rasengan in the other could kill a Sannin, I can never understand. Shiki Fuujin is Minato's best bet if this battle is supposedly the same as Hiruzen's Part 1 Scenario, but Minato has to suicide for that, so this either ends as a draw (40% chance), or Orochimaru wins (60% chance).


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## Ghost_of_Gashir (Oct 4, 2016)

Minato solos with a kunai. Next.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Oct 4, 2016)

Minato is overall stronger, but he cannot kill Orochimaru, so he'll get outlasted and lose eventually. Shiki Fujin and the Sword of Totsuka are the only things that have been portrayed to be able to "kill" Orochimaru, and that is by sealing him away since he is basically immortal. The only other thing that can defeat him is Jinton, because it erases the victim's existence on a molecular level. Other than that, even if you are stronger, you cannot beat Orochimaru.


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## Bonly (Oct 4, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Minato is overall stronger, but he cannot kill Orochimaru, so he'll get outlasted and lose eventually. *Shiki Fujin and the Sword of Totsuka are the only things* *that have been portrayed to be able to "kill" Orochimaru*, and that is by sealing him away since he is basically immortal. *The only other thing that can defeat him is Jinton*, because it erases the victim's existence on a molecular level. Other than that, even if you are stronger, you cannot beat Orochimaru.



Such disrespect to our Queen from you is shocking and I'm disappointed. You say the bold but you ignore what happened in canon! You better check yourself before you wreck yourself son!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Oct 4, 2016)

Feats only, you can say Minato can win with a few teleporting tactics, using the contract seal then eventually binding Orochimaru with whatever resources he has like perhaps something from the Ni Dai Sennin.

Using all evidence: Minato will probably seal Orochimaru away using one of the many Uzumaki seals he mastered.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Sapherosth (Oct 4, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Shiki Fuujin >>>>>>>>>>> Hakke/Shisho Fuin
> 
> 
> 
> As @HandfullofNaruto said,* Fuinjutsu can't seal a human into a used condom on the floor or a piece of shit on the ground.*


Epic comparison.






Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Feats only, you can say Minato can win with a few teleporting tactics, using the contract seal then eventually binding Orochimaru with whatever resources he has like perhaps something from the Ni Dai Sennin.
> 
> Using all evidence: Minato will probably seal Orochimaru away using *one of the many Uzumaki seals he mastered*.





Orochimaru can also defend himself using one of the many seals he's researched/mastered. 






Bonly said:


> Such disrespect to our Queen from you is shocking and I'm disappointed. You say the bold but you ignore what happened in canon! You better check yourself before you wreck yourself son!




I am pretty sure Orochimaru's point was that he will allow Katsuyu to kill him if she sees anything suspicious, not that she can actually kill him. 

We know that no matter how unkillable you are, if you want to be killed, you can be. Just look Hashirama's godlike healing abilities like Tsunade's Byakugo....he was about to die from a kunai.


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## Gohara (Oct 4, 2016)

@ Naruto.

I see.  However, he states that no one currently in Konoha could defeat Orochimaru possibly outside of himself.  At the time, that was likely true.  He only stated that Orochimaru might be able to defeat his Old self.  If anything, I would say that's more of a point in favor of Prime Sarutobi being > Orochimaru since he still believes that he might be able to defeat Orochimaru in his old age.

As for Minato, Anko doesn't necessarily indicate that Orochimaru is in the same league of power as Minato.  She just stated that if Minato were still around, he could defeat Orochimaru.

However, I agree that Orochimaru and Sarutobi were both likely hindered during their match up, so it's not the best example in which to judge their full power.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 4, 2016)

I doubt Orochimaru is going to be joking around here like he did with Hiruzen. He and Minato don't have a history akin to the one he's got with Hiruzen, so the context of the fight would be much different here. Realistically, Orochimaru should also have some of the most Ninjutsu options in the entire series. He spent decades researching several abilities and also has the benefit of Edo Hashirama/Edo Tobirama (presumably limited to Part 1 feats). I wouldn't really consider that a bad thing when Bringer of Darkness/Jukai Koutan are ridiculous techniques on their own, though. If we give Orochimaru the benefit of the doubt in being able to use several types of elemental Jutsu, however, this fight can be very interesting. Orochimaru's resilience and Yamata no Orochi are nothing to laugh at, either, especially when Minato's best sealing technique is restricted.

It should be a close match, but I'd probably give Orochimaru the victory in the end.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## StarWanderer (Oct 5, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> *Spoiler*: _Yes, durability._
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My answer will be short because i'm too lazy to address all of that.

Itachi cut off Orochimaru's hand effortlessly with a simple kunai, that's a fact.

Minato is so fats for Orochimaru he wont be able to react to him.

Orochimaru has never, ever, survived decapitation, or his head being cut in half. He never survived that kind of injury.

Oral Rebirth doesnt work after shinobi is dead.

Minato is a sensor with super-fast Shunshin, so all of Oro's attempts to poison him will get countered.

And Minato can simply seal him away.

What conclusion can we make from all of this?

Minato easy-diffs Oro.


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## StarWanderer (Oct 5, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> Im not going to elaborate on how dumb that is.



Well, it seems Oro's body cant take the kunai attacks, they are too... sharp. We've seen Hachibi's tentacles holding off Juubidama for some time (!), surviving his own Bijuudama (!!!) and being cut off by Shurikens, Sasuke's Raiton and Raikage's chop.





HandfullofNaruto said:


> Eh



Every ninjutsu requires chakra. In this battle, Minato doesnt have to use as much chakra as Orochimaru.

Minato easy-diffs.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Epic comparison.


 Lol thanks?


> Orochimaru can also defend himself using one of the many seals he's researched/mastered.


Exactly. Orochimaru was said to be a master of Fuinjutsu and has a 5 for Ninjutsu in the data-book. He was an expert with the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style (S Rank) and also knew Gogyo Fuin/Kain (A Rank), plus was the student of Hiruzen, who used Shikk Fujin (which Orochimaru later researched and broke through, knowing much about the hidden Uzumaki Temple and even experimented on Karin, an Uzumaki descendant, for her sealing and medical capabilities), and on top of that, was the teammate of Tsunade (a Senjuzumaki who he believed could counter Shiki Fuujin) and Jiraiya (who was good enough to seal f*cking Amaterasu), so Orochimaru isn't short of options here.


> I am pretty sure Orochimaru's point was that he will allow Katsuyu to kill him if she sees anything suspicious, not that she can actually kill him.


Nah, Katsuyu would have killed him. Slug > Snake > Frog > Slug. What do you think would have happened if Manda ate Katsuyu? Acid in his belly. One lick of that could eviscerate Orochimaru.


> We know that no matter how unkillable you are, if you want to be killed, you can be. Just look Hashirama's godlike healing abilities like Tsunade's Byakugo....he was about to die from a kunai.


Good logic. Its nice to see you outside of an Itachi thread. So polite, calm, collected and logical. Maybe Itachi is just a bad influence on you lol cos you get really rude and illogical when trying to defend him in the NBD.



StarWanderer said:


> My answer will be short because i'm too lazy to address all of that.


Well then why should I read your post? You do this all the time. After this message never again will I make replies for you. You're too lazy and ignorant.


> Itachi cut off Orochimaru's hand effortlessly with a simple kunai, that's a fact.


Whatever. I addressed that and evaluated Orochimaru's durability. Ignore it if you want but all it proves is that you have to restrict Orochimaru's arsenal in order for Minato to win. That's sad for him isn' it.


> Minato is so fats for Orochimaru he wont be able to react to him.


"fats"? I think the word you're looking for is 'fast'. Anyway I'm guessing you ignored that Orochimaru can use a Paralysis Jutsu to stop Minato from moving and can phase deep underground (where Minato has no AOE/digging abilities to get to Orochi) where Minato can't hit him. Still restricting him I see.


> Orochimaru has never, ever, survived decapitation, or his head being cut in half. He never survived that kind of injury.


He survived four internal decapitations via Kabuto's chakra scalpel so it still counts. He survived bisection in both human and white snake form. Why don't you f*cking read my post?



> Oral Rebirth doesnt work after shinobi is dead.


Yes it does. You would know if you bothered to read my post.


*Spoiler*: _Look At Orochimaru's Eyes_ 





Evidence that a single chakra-scalpel to the neck (Oro took 4 to the neck) can kill.
But he regenerated anyway.




Orochimaru's life is not limited to his human form as he has his true white snake body beyond that then his true mind (Fushi Tensei Dimension/Place where he watches events from e.g. Ankos Curse Mark after Totsuka sealing) even beyond that, so that logic doesn't even apply anyway.


> Minato is a sensor with super-fast Shunshin, so all of Oro's attempts to poison him will get countered.


Once again, you didnt read my post. Sasuke, who:

Has Immunity To Poisons
Has The Perceptive Abilities Of Sharingan
Did Research On Snakes And Orochimaru Before Their Fight
And Was Compared To The Sannin Himself In Intelligence
Managed to fall into the neurotoxin trap, so Minato is going to fall for it too. And bring me the scans for Minato's SM Feats. How long can he use it for? Did he ever summon Ma and Pa?


> And Minato can simply seal him away.


Once again, ignorance.



> What conclusion can we make from all of this?
> Minato easy-diffs Oro.



So this is what we have:

Restrict Orochimaru's ability to use Leech All Creation.
Grant Minato greater-than-Hanzo-level immunity to poisons.
Restrict Orochimaru's Regeneration (Oral Rebirth) and True Form (White Snake Body) and its resilience and extreme life force.
Restrict Orochimaru's durability.
Grant Minato the ability to use a buffed up fanfiction variant of Fuinjutsu.
Restrict Orochimaru's Paralysis Jutsu.
And under those conditions, Minato can win Mid Diff. Otherwise, Orochimaru High-Extreme Diffs.

And on top of all that you've no counter for Edo Tensei/Manda. Honestly @StarWanderer you're such an ignorant and incompeten pain-in-the-a$$ to deal with. You completely ignored everything I said in my earlier posts and completely went against the canon manga and data-books. What an epic failure you are. But no offence anyway, because as @HandfullofNaruto said too:

I don't even care about this debate. I won this debate ages ago anyway. So why I even bothered responding to you, I honestly cannot grasp why. It's just wishful thinking to assume Minato wins.


*Spoiler*: _Here's a challenge for you StarWanderer: why don't you bring panels to prove your arguments, because I've done so for my side_


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

Honestly I'm tired of people on this forum ignoring my posts, so I'm gonna post all of it again until a Minato fan counters every last fibre of it.
*Spoiler*: __ 





Part 1 (1st Post - I jumped into the thread half way through the debates lol)



Kyu said:


> Minato either calls forth Fukasaku & Shima, seals Oro into something, or sends him to another continent via the marking he placed  _Kumogakure's_ Jinchuuriki.
> 
> Oro's featless poison is a non-factor and attempting to outlast a Sage isn't wise. Yondaime wins.



*Spoiler*: _Featless poison? How is it featless?_ 




Orochimaru's poisons:


			
				DB1 said:
			
		

> *Sōjasōsai no Jutsu/Twin Snake Sacrifice Technique*
> This forbidden technique is a murder-suicide attack, killing both the user and the target. The user makes a one-handed seal with both their hand and the intended victim's. Two snakes are then from the user's sleeve, biting both their wrists and killing them with deadly venom. When  used this technique against , he replaced himself with a clone to avoid harm, leaving Anko unable to finish the technique - which wouldn't even be suicide since Orochimaru himself would be immune to the poisons.



... He can use paralysis poisons ...

... Such as the neurotoxin a poison immunised ninja could not tank




 Anyway Minato takes this High Difficulty. Don't really need to explain why. He'd only need Extreme Diff for people like Nagato/Pain etc. Mid Diff for people like Sasori and Itachi.

PS: To be honest, Minato doesn't really have the tools to kill Orochimaru, but lets just say he wins anyway based on portrayal.


*Spoiler*: _Maybe we can raise this fight to an extreme difficulty one based on these scans_ 









Anyway, this is my one post for the day. Logging off now. See y'all later!

Part 2 (2nd Post)



StarWanderer said:


> Durability?



*Spoiler*: _Yes, durability._ 



He's been punched by a one-hit-kill punch and survived.


He's been battered and bruised & abuses and bisected and blasted to oblivion by Naruto and just kept laughing and carrying on.







> Dude, Itachi cut Oro's arm off with a simple Kunai. Minato can cut Oro to peaces if he wants to.


So what? You mean when they weren't even having a proper fight? How do you know Orochimaru's body was modified back then? Considering Itachi was his first attempt at a Fushi Tensei body transfer (he fought Itachi five years before Wave Arc but he was on his second body when he faced Hiruzen months after that, and had used up 2 years of the body, plus the 3 years of his first, meaning his first transfer was in the year he left Akatsuki, obviously after his confrontation with Itachi since he'd need to wait 3 years for a second transfer, and so on), and he modifies his bodies _after_ he transfers into them. He may not even have had that durability back then, but the most recent Orochimaru we know was *bisected in half *yet just laughed about it so even if he gets "chopped up to peaces" (it's spelt 'pieces'), I think he's gonna be fine. This is the Orochimaru who told Kabuto, "one hit (from Tsunade) will kill you", yet tanked the same punch later (a stronger one in fact since Tsunade's rustiness was wearing away, she overcame her phobia and replenished her reserves with Sozo Saisei) and tanked the residue (after the Sanjuu Rashomon's blast reduction) of a KN4 Tailed Beast Bomb, so stop wanking Kunai and stop underrating Orochimaru, whilst overhyping Itachi's menial feats.


> Renegeration will help Orochimaru, of course, but he will run out of chakra eventually, or will get sealed.


Yes it f*cking will, he had an arm taken off by KN3 Naruto and regenerated it finely, did the same twice later in the fight, and as I keep having to say, did not run out of chakra, but his time limit on his host, Genyumaru, was slowly coming to an end. The one time it was said that technique was taxing was_ when Sasuke used it and Itachi said, _but thats because Sasuke cant use the jutsu like the original owner (note one use drained Sasuke but *Orochimaru showed no signs of exhaustion from using it up  to 3 times *[1st  Occasion] [2nd - Occasion] [3rd - Occasion - in fact, he even was able to use Oral Rebirth whilst his body was giving up on him, and didn't show signs of chakra exhaustion here either {whereas Sasuke was drained for doing exactly the same thing, and used it slowly and sloppily, whilst Orochimaru's was swift and efficient, as you saw in the Chapter 584 scan I just linked you to}] the same way Sharingan is taxing for Kakashi, but not at all for blood Uchihas.

There is no evidence to suggest Oral Rebirth is taxing_ *for Orochimaru. *Obviously every ones chakra has a limit, but nothing suggests Orochi can only use it say 3 times.
_
And I don't see what a Kunai is meant to do to Orochimaru when he can survive death via Oral Rebirth (Kabuto's chakra scalpel 'killed' Orochimaru's human form - we see his eye fade here as if he'd died, and both Kabuto and Tsunade even said chakra scalpel to the neck can kill, plus he survived bisection, among a load of other things as I Illustrated in the spoiler tag at the start of this message, and Minato has no feats for "cutting someone to peaces" anyway)



> Part 1 Edo Hokage shouldnt be a problem, obviously.


I'll give you that one.



> Minato mid-easy diffs.


Behave yourself please.
Minato high-extreme diffs.

Even if he could "cut him into peaces pieces" all that will happen is this, unfortunately, and if Minato continues cutting, this (***) or this could happen via the White Snake Form of Orochimaru.

Honestly, Minato might not even win this. I'm sure @HandfullofNaruto, @Isaiah13000 and maybe @UchihaX28 will also understand why Orochimaru might come on top here.

So as @HandfullofNaruto said/implied. Fushi Tensei GG unless Minato can think of another way to kill Orochimaru, which he can't, so Orochimaru takes this Extreme (Higher End) Difficulty. So the highest difficulty possible basically. Minato is just too limited offensively. I heard someone say something about Oodama Rasengan but Orochimaru's body can tank part of this explosion and Manda's body can tank a portion of this explosion, plus Orochimaru can phase-underground and , and even use  to  Minato's movements., which makes speed a non-factor (which I proved with the manga whilst @Kyu went against the manga [evidence which I later provided] by saying Orochimaru's poison is featless, which overall is quite ironic really). And even if he landed Hiraishin-Rasengan, it could not detach an arm less durable than Orochimaru's, and he can regenerate his wounds/mortal injuries anyway.

Minato is slightly stronger than (as in a sub-tier above) Orochimaru, but sadly he's gonna fall into one trap or another. Even Sasuke Uchiha, who (as you saw in the scan in the post earlier where I talked about Orochimaru's poison's feats) was both immunised (to some degree) against poisons, was compared to the Sannin-scientist himself in terms of intelligence, and had the perceptive/precognitive abilities of the Sharingan, and furthermore even did research on Orochimaru and snakes in general before their final confronatation in Otogakure's Eastern Base, was able to easily and cluelessly fall into that trap, so Minato defintely will too.

Furthermore, Minato does not have a legitimate way of dealing with Orochimaru's signature summon, Manda. Manda > Gamabunta. People tend to use the sealing argument but forget that Manda is not a piece of chakra in animal form like Kurama and the Bijuu. He is just a snake. So Hakke Fuin can't be used to deal with him unless someone wants to prove to me that you can use Fuinjutsu to seal someone's body into any old object, be it a blunt pencil or a pair of old dirty underwear. And Manda is a troublesome summon that can be used to distract Minato, even if only for short amounts of time.

And to finally conclude, last of all, Contract Seal dealt with Obito's control over Kurama because he turned off Sharingan control. Kurama was not made to fight for the Uchiha, but Edo Tenseis are summoned to fight for the user. It is in the  in the data-book. Hiruzen, the student of the technique's creator knew that he would have to fight them no matter what, even before Orochimaru placed the Fuda Seals in (all they do is wipe out the personalities of the summoned deceased), and this was the same Hiruzen who knew every jutsu in Konoha so arguably could use Minato's Contract Seal he most likely learnt from Kushina. And even if Minato could take away Orochimaru's control over them, Orochimaru could just over-rewrite it by placing another Fuda Tag inside the summoned corpses, just as Kabuto was going to do, to overwrite Kotoamatsukami's control over Edo Itachi.

Part 3 (3rd Post) - SEE IN THE NEXT POST


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

The rest of it (double posted due to use of 20+ images).
*Spoiler*: __ 




*Orochimaru wins this.*

*Spoiler*: _Lol at Orochimaru going down to Kunai_ 








Is that the end of the discussion, or are there any rebuttals/questions/queries?

Just remember:

*Spoiler*: __ 











WorldsStrongest said:


> Theres a reason oro got passed over to become the 4th, minato is simply gooder, all there is to it.





Not only was Orochimaru the primary candidate for Yondaime Hokage, but Minato was believed to be the only one capable of defeating Prime Orochimaru.

*Spoiler*: __ 








The counters to the rest of your post are in my previous of these two posts. Sorry about the double post by the way. I had too many images to post. Anyway that should be all.

*Any challengers to my debates?*


Bonly said:


> Orochi had to do research over two years on the reaper specifically in order to break so unless you have some proof that he would be able to break out of a this seal, I have no reason to buy it.


Shiki Fuujin >>>>>>>>>>> Hakke/Shisho Fuin



Kyu said:


> He's got moves other than Rasengan y'know...
> 
> 
> Shishō Fūin - Sealing
> ...



As @HandfullofNaruto said, Fuinjutsu can't seal a human into a used condom on the floor or a piece of shit on the ground. No evidence/no logic. Now as I am saying - he tagged Obito during hat fight. Twice (FTG Marking + Rasengan later on). If he could just seal a body into his jacket or kunai then why didnt he? Theres a reason why only Orochimaru's soul (arms) was sealed by Shiki Fuujin (and not that the physical arm was stored inside the Shinigami/Death God/Reaper's stomach), or why Gogyo Fuin only blocked Naruto's access to chakra instead of shutting away his entire life force, and why Kyuubi was sealed - its just pieces of chakra, thats why.
BFR? Sorry what is that again? But anyhow, what can he do with teleportation? Take Manda away? He can just slither/burrow back to the battlefield anyway. Or Orochimaru can just summon him again. And Minato will also have Aoda and San Kyodaija (who beat Gamaken and Gamahiro, assuming Minato can even summon them). What else? Take the Edos away? They can run back to the location or Orochimaru can send Aoda/Manda to hurry over and ferry them back to the battlefield. *Orochimaru knows Minato's arsenal.* Tell me what would happen if Minato placed an FTG marking on him, and Orochimaru hid in Manda's mouth (_Minato teleports to Orochimaru and instantly gets swallowed and poisoned, even better if Manda hides underground_)? What if Orochimaru uses Leech All Creation to phase deep into the earth? (_When Minato teleports to him, he appears underground, where his body is completely pulverised_). Orochimaru has a very creative arsenal and a very unique/tactical battle style.
Has Minato ever used Magen: Gamarinsho? He never summoned toads to use Senjutsu in war arc. So no feats. And considering Orochimaru > Jiraiya and beats him like 9/10 times (and Gamarinsho is his strongest technique) I wouldn't bank on it being the jutsu to defeat Orochimaru. Orochimaru can have his Edos break him out of Genjutsu via Partner-Method or could leech deep beneath the ground where soundwaves can't reach him, whilst the Edos (who are Genjutsu immune, as they possess no spinal cord, brain or nervous system as they are dust made zombies, not humans; they even resisted Mugen: Tsukuyomi [the strongest genjutsu of all] in the war arc) can keep Minato busy and knock those toads off his head, with some help from Manda, who can also stay underground and stick his tail up to attack whilst Orochimaru can do the same with Kusanagi. If his attacks cannot hit, then he slyly paralyses Minato, even using Edos to distract then attack for the purpose of . And even if all fails, at some point in the fight, this will inevitably happen, since Minato's arsenal revolves around cutting. And if the poison doesn't kill him, then Shirohebi Orochi bites his head off - literally.



HandfullofNaruto said:


> Hey I'm on the fence about this fight as it is. You go ahead and support Minato I don't care.
> I'd generally lean towards Minato as well but it's not as if Orochimaru is lacking on methods for killing Minato.


Exactly. At first I gave Minato the benefit of the doubt and said he wins high end of Extreme-Difficulty, but now I'm done making excuses for the offensively limited blondie, just because he's ..... Minato. Orochimaru instead wins this Extreme (Higher End) Difficulty unless anyone can prove that humans can be sealed into a f*cking strand of grass. He cuts Orochimaru and when true form comes out he gets poisoned. If he uses Contract Seal on the Edo, Orochi overwrites that with another Fuda Tag. Manda beats Gamabunta. Orochimaru (Reduced KN4 TBB) and Manda (a portion of Deidara's C0 ) can tank things stronger than a Rasengan. Manda can deal with Gamabunta's Sword and Orochimaru made a comeback from being bisected by KN4/taking four chakra scalpels to the neck (one to the neck can kill a standard human, as can a hit to the chest from Tsunade which Orochimaru also tanked to the head where his brain is) and also has the diamond-cutting Kusanagi Sword of legend; so Minato's Kunais won't do sh*t here. Orochimaru can phase underground to escape Minato's brittle offence and can stop any defence he tries (which would revolve around evasion as opposed to interception or blocking) as his movements can be halted with a paralysis technique. *Orochimaru-sama wins this.*
*Spoiler*: _And that's just the feats side of the argument. You want portrayal? Here you go_ 






Prime Orochimaru (more or less) = Base Minato (or maybe Minato is slightly stronger, but either way, I'm done making excuses for all his shortcomings. He can't win every match-up just because you want him to, which is what @HandfullofNaruto and myself have successfully illustrated, using logic, manga panels and data-book evidence). This fight should go either way based match-up, and in this particular match-up, Lord Orochimaru wins, and tough luck to Minato fans. Better luck next time. Minato Namikaze can't win every battle.


> Can Orochimaru break out of a seal without chakra (I can't remember who posted this)


Not that it matters, as Minato won't be sealing Orochimaru to begin with. Anyhow, whatever, I think that is the end of the debate. Orochimaru wins by feats/portrayal/logic/realisticness. Minato wins based on excuses/lack of logic & evidence/baseless arguments.

But just remember:
If Sasuke's [Raiton/Katon/Kenjutsu] attacks (or Kabuto's one-hit-kill chakra scalpel or Tsunade's one-hit-kill punch or Naruto's one-hit-kill KN4 laser beam reduced blast-crater forming explosion) can't kill him, then I don't see why Minato's dusty Kunai knives can, or his underdeveloped Rasengan (which Part 1 Naruto mastered in a week whilst it took Minato 3 years, the same Part 1 Naruto that Orochimaru defeated easily). So mods can lock this now as it is clear who has won this debate. I, @IzayaOrihara cluded dozens of links to manga panels/actual manga scannings/data-book evidence to support my arguments, whilst @HandfullofNaruto handled the logic side of the arguments (mainly where Fuinjutsu is concerned) and did the deeper research and thinking I couldn't be bothered to do during the A.M. hours of last night, whereas all the others either made basless claims (@Bonly/@hbcaptain and @Grimmjow) or argued against the manga (@Kyu) in the most uneducated way/the most ironic fashions (ironic because while he said Orochimaru's poison was featless, which I proved to be untrue, he went on to wank Minato's speed, which I illustrated a perfect counter for). So let's just end this on a positive note before this thread starts to deteriorate. Naruto Battledome Moderator @Saru please lock this thread now. I strongly advise that you do so immediately.

_EDIT:_
*My final comment to Minato supporters:*

Jiraiya was killed by Pain after having his arm injured, then ripped off by Asura, and then had his neck crushed after a huge struggle.
Tsunade as of yet has not been killed due to her regeneration which overcame some of Orochimaru (Kusanagi), Pain (f*cking Chou Shinra Tensei - in fact, she tanked that, Yin Seal ran out by then) and Madara's (V3 Susanoo Sword/Yasaka Magatama/Katon: Ryuen Houka no Jutsu) best offense.
Prime Orochimaru has only ever gone down to Shiki Fuujin whilst Deathbed Orochimaru has only been defeated by having his own Fushi Tensei turned against him, and Nerfed Orochimaru went down to Totsuka under rigged circumstances (whilst he bodied the residue of a KN4 Tailed Beast Bomb explosion, tanked KN3's attacks and regenerated from KN4's damage, tanked Tsunade's punch, made a comeback from a bisection at the waist and taking four chakra scalpels to the neck from a medical ninja whose prowess with that jutsu rivalled Tsunade's in her prime).
So how anyone thought Minato with a Kunai in one hand and a standard Part 1 level Rasengan in the other could kill a Sannin, I can never understand. Shiki Fuujin is Minato's best bet if this battle is supposedly the same as Hiruzen's Part 1 Scenario, but Minato has to suicide for that, so this either ends as a draw (40% chance), or Orochimaru wins (60% chance).


Until somebody actually reads my posts and counters it without completely ignoring what I said to begin with, this case is closed. Prime Orochimaru (barely/just about) = Base Minato and defeats him in an Extreme Difficulty fight.

If no one is going to counter my post, then we can not move forward in this debate (we'll go round in circles thanks to people like @StarWanderer back tracking by failing to respond to anyone's arguments), thus, @Saru should close this before I begin to lose my temper (due to complete ignorance of logic and my posts) and things start to get out of hand here. If you are too lazy to respond to someone's post then just say you concede. If not, then let's hear the arguments. There is no inbetween @StarWanderer. You can't basically say "I have counters to all of your arguments but I can't be bothered to say them, so I'll just ignore your post and regurgitate the same argument you countered, while assuming you can read my mind to find out what counters I would have written". Can we not agree on that?



Ghost_of_Gashir said:


> Minato solos with a kunai. Next.


Oh? Care to prove how?


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## Bonly (Oct 5, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> I am pretty sure Orochimaru's point was that he will allow Katsuyu to kill him if she sees anything suspicious, not that she can actually kill him.



He says that she can kill him with acid but she can't actually kill him. Well ok 



> We know that no matter how unkillable you are, if you want to be killed, you can be. Just look Hashirama's godlike healing abilities like Tsunade's Byakugo....he was about to die from a kunai.



I'm pretty sure that Juubi Jin Madara+Kaguya would disagree with you on the whole wanting to be killed thing since they are immortal


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

I'd like to summarise my earlier posts with this:

Minato's fighting style revolves around using physical cutting/striking attacks which spill blood from the opponent. This is the inevitable end of this battle. Minato will fall into this trap because Sasuke did. Sasuke had:

Researched Orochimaru and snakes in general before their fight.
Has the perceptive ability of the Sharingan, able to see the smallest of nano-particles (but couldn't see the poison).
Is immunised to poisons, to some degree.
And is a very intelligent ninja, compared to the Sannin himself in shinobi intelligence (even if Orochimaru is obviously much smarter, with his scientific expertise, decades of experience etc).
But despite that, he still fell into the neurotoxin trap. And luckily for Orochimaru, Minato's speed isn't a problem, as Orochimaru isn't going to him; with poison, it will always be Minato who is coming to Orochimaru. Even this could happen right under Minato's nose.

People keep talking about Kunai, but as I said, when Orochimaru had his hand cut off by Itachi, he did not have his body modifications. I mean, no one can argue Kunai > Chidori Eiso now, can we? Orochimaru's hands (and the rest of his body) are much more durable now. Anyway who cares, let Minato cut him. All he will do is find the white snake among the remains, which he also cuts, then gets poisoned by as he has no knowledge on the neurotoxic evaporating blood fluid. Even if he ran away, the blood remaining on his Kunai or the one that splashes onto his clothes after he lands Rasengan () on Orochimaru - it will evaporate around Minato and he will inhale it and b paralysed, and probably die. If it doesnt kill and only paralyses (I always figured Sasuke's immunity helped him escape the death even if he couldn't resist the paralysis agent weaved into the chemical blood fluid), then Orochimaru finishes it off himself.

To finally finish off, this is basically the message I'm trying to get across.


*Spoiler*: _Orochimaru's reaction to Minato's futile attempts to bring him down._ 




And Minato's response:

The End ...


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## Clowe (Oct 5, 2016)

Minato babyshakes, these two should't even be compared to each other.

Minato solos with a Kunai.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Dislike 2


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> I find @IzayaOrihara posts pretty informative and entertaining to read , not sure why people feel lazy reading them .


Honesty right. My posts are beautiful essays weaved with manga scans and laced with data-book statements to dictate a lecture of some old and some new undiscovered information, beautifully presented and laid out I think it's not that people are 'lazy' to read them, but they are 'scared' to read them, because they don't want to find out the truth, they just want to keep wanking whoever it is we pit Orochimaru against, be it Minato or Itachi. That's why I won the Orochimaru vs Itachi debates. No one read my posts because they were too scared to. The only ones that did were @Grimmjowsensei and @UchihaX28. They were scared of realising that their favourite character was beneath Orochimaru, who they deeply hate and detest. People in general around here just aren't educated on the canon. For example @Kyu said Orochimaru's poison was "featless", yet i can give you up to 6 (at least 3 that are very clear) different instances of where Orochimaru used (the 3 - vs Sasuke, vs Log and vs Anko)/may have (another possible 3 we didn't see, but was stated in DB, ie Senei Jashu has venom) used a poison in battle. It just shows that people are doing one of three things. Wanking Minato and trying to bolster his feats, hating on Orochimaru whilst trying to minimise his arsenal by using lies (something that happens to Tsunade in every thread she is debated about) or they just don't know sh*t about the manga. Anyway my rant is over and I hpe you thought my posts were funny. I do this for fun as well as for the sake of furthering my crusade to defend Orochimaru in the NBD.


Clowe said:


> Minato babyshakes, these two should't even be compared to each other.
> 
> Minato solos with a Kunai.


At least think of something new to say. At least 3 people have already said this, and I soloed all of their arguments. *You* _seem to think_ it's a problem to compare Minato and Orochimaru -

*Spoiler*: _Well, Kishimoto obviously doesn't think it's a problem._ 









Yeah ... I'm going with Kishimoto on this one, rather than your biased misguided idiocy. What a joke you are.


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## Sapherosth (Oct 5, 2016)

Bonly said:


> He says that she can kill him with acid but she can't actually kill him. Well ok
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Juubi Jin Madara+Kaguya would disagree with you on the whole wanting to be killed thing since they are immortal



Oro was the one who said it, but it was in the context of him trying to get katsuyu to trust him. 

Juubi Jin mads got fucked over by another god-tier who planned to screw him over via stealing the bijuu's. 


Kaguya got sealed, not killed.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> The only other thing that can defeat him is Jinton, because it erases the victim's existence on a molecular level.





			
				Evil Releasing Method/Kaija Hōin said:
			
		

> The *Evil Releasing Method* is a direct counterpart to the Evil Sealing Method. It is used to release technique-induced seals on a person rather than sealing it. Compared to the Evil Sealing Method, the Evil Releasing Method requires far less preparation. Sasuke Uchiha used this technique to revive , mixing a piece of's modified flesh to create a body for the consciousness of Orochimaru that was left in 's.


He has DNA in all his , plus many ninja of Otogakure bear some form of his .Curse Mark + White Snake's DNA = "I'm back, bitches!"

But yeah, you need things like Tailed Beast Bomb (Orochimaru tanked a weaker variant of it anyway), Jinton (which you can outrun or intercept, there is evidence for this) or Ura Shisho Fuin (which was easily outran by a wounded, exhausted Sasuke) to beat Orochimaru. People just need to realise Orochimaru is not weak. Its is not easy to defeat him.


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## Clowe (Oct 5, 2016)

You're still talking?

Also stop comparing Itachi with Snake shit.

There's a whole tier of difference between Itachi/Minato and Oroshitmaru.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

*-snip-*

My entire posts were laced with manga panels/data book scans, which is evidence to prove my point, and after all those essays all you can say is "stop comparing them" *when even the fucking author did it three whole fucking times.*​
*Spoiler*: __ 







So what makes you think you have the right to even be logged on to NF now?

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Clowe (Oct 5, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Snake shit (Minato) is actually stronger than Itachi.
> ?



Well well well Izaya, for once I agree with you on something, it's funny you say that, because Itachi, who's weaker than Minato, soloed Oroshitmaru twice, one of those times with a glance and, guess what? A kunai, just like Minato will.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

Clowe said:


> Well well well Izaya, for once I agree with you on something, it's funny you say that, because Itachi, who's weaker than Minato, soloed Oroshitmaru twice, one of those times with a glance and, guess what? A kunai, just like Minato will.


Orochimaru (Prime) > Itachi > Orochimaru (Nerfed). You know this, so stop it. You're just instigating now. *And yeah, when the Kunai soloes the snake, the immortal white snake head gets up and starts talking in riddles whilst Minato inhales some neurotoxin lol. There goes your argument down the drain already.*

As for the deterioration of this thread:

I knew this was gonna happen, but @Saru didn't listen to me. He'll wish he had now.


IzayaOrihara said:


> If Sasuke's [Raiton/Katon/Kenjutsu] attacks (or Kabuto's one-hit-kill chakra scalpel or Tsunade's one-hit-kill punch or Naruto's one-hit-kill KN4 laser beam reduced blast-crater forming explosion) can't kill him, then I don't see why Minato's dusty Kunai knives can, or his underdeveloped Rasengan (which Part 1 Naruto mastered in a week whilst it took Minato 3 years, the same Part 1 Naruto that Orochimaru defeated easily). So mods can lock this now as it is clear who has won this debate. I, @IzayaOrihara cluded dozens of links to manga panels/actual manga scannings/data-book evidence to support my arguments, whilst @HandfullofNaruto handled the logic side of the arguments (mainly where Fuinjutsu is concerned) and did the deeper research and thinking I couldn't be bothered to do during the A.M. hours of last night, whereas all the others either made basless claims (@Bonly/@hbcaptain and @Grimmjow/@Grimmjowsensei [can't remember which one of the two it was lol sorry about that if there is my confusion]) or argued against the manga (@Kyu) in the most uneducated way/the most ironic fashions (ironic because while he said Orochimaru's poison was featless, which I proved to be untrue, he went on to wank Minato's speed, which I illustrated a perfect counter for). *So let's just end this on a positive note before this thread starts to deteriorate*. Naruto Battledome Moderator @Saru please lock this thread now. I strongly advise that you do so immediately.


So no one can ban me/give me a warning for my rant here, because I warned you, but hey, @IzayaOrihara has always been more competent than the useless excuses for moderators that plague NF. Honestly I should be the sole moderator/administrator here lol.

Anyway @Clowe:
Either that or you concede to the fact that Prime Orochimaru beats Base Minato with Extreme (High End) Difficulty, and we can put this whole incident behind us and move forward as friends. @HandfulofNaruto, invite @Clowe to our open conversation board so we can become friends and recommend good anime to eachother or something, before this situation gets even further out of control because if you people think I'm mad now, you ain't seen nothing. I go from 0 to 100 real quick and right now I'm only at 10, so you mods/admins don't wanna see this get worse you hear me?

Anyway invite him @HandfullofNaruto. I apologise to @Clowe. I should never have popped off like that. Now you apologise for ignoring my arguments/baiting me, and then we can all move on like best friends.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Bonly (Oct 5, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Oro was the one who said it, but it was in the context of him trying to get katsuyu to trust him.



That doesn't mean he didn't mean that her acid can kill him though.



> Juubi Jin mads got fucked over by another god-tier who planned to screw him over via stealing the bijuu's.



Juubi Jin Madara got fucked but he didn't die 




> Kaguya got sealed, not killed.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 5, 2016)

Bonly said:


> That doesn't mean he didn't mean that her acid can kill him though


I'm pretty sure it can.


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## Sapherosth (Oct 5, 2016)

Bonly said:


> That doesn't mean he didn't mean that her acid can kill him though.
> 
> 
> 
> Juubi Jin Madara got fucked but he didn't die




Hmm, if it covers his entire body then it should be possible. If it's just a portion then it wouldn't kill him. Maybe that's a counter to his oral rebirth.



and lol at Izaya getting banned. Can't say I didn't see it coming.  
He's too emotional about Orochimaru.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 5, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Hmm, if it covers his entire body then it should be possible. If it's just a portion then it wouldn't kill him. Maybe that's a counter to his oral rebirth.


It would make sense considering the whole Toad > Slug > Serpent > Toad





> and lol at Izaya getting banned. Can't say I didn't see it coming.


He literally says "I'm probably going to be banned" anybody who read his post saw it coming.


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## Isaiah13000 (Oct 5, 2016)

Bonly said:


> Such disrespect to our Queen from you is shocking and I'm disappointed. You say the bold but you ignore what happened in canon! You better check yourself before you wreck yourself son!


 Shit! You caught me! My bad fam, I'll make sure to be more careful next time!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sapherosth (Oct 5, 2016)

HandfullofNaruto said:


> It would make sense considering the whole Toad > Slug > Serpent > ToadHe literally says "I'm probably going to be banned" anybody who read his post saw it coming.




I didn't read it.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## HandfullofNaruto (Oct 5, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> I didn't read it.


Hahahahah alright then, good foresight.


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## UchihaX28 (Oct 5, 2016)

So @IzayaOrihara is banned again. So NF is still same old, same old.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 6, 2016)

A mod sacrified himself to seal Izaya's arms. It'll be long before he can post again. We are safe for now.
NF Kuzushi failed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7 | Winner 1


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## StarWanderer (Oct 7, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> Whatever. I addressed that and evaluated Orochimaru's durability. Ignore it if you want but all it proves is that you have to restrict Orochimaru's arsenal in order for Minato to win. That's sad for him isn' it.



That's right, dude - whatever. If Itachi can overcome his durability with a simple kunai, than Minato, a Hokage, will do the same. That's a manga fact, Orochimaru's durability has never been good against something sharp. At least i dont remember those instances.



IzayaOrihara said:


> "fats"? I think the word you're looking for is 'fast'. Anyway I'm guessing you ignored that Orochimaru can use a Paralysis Jutsu to stop Minato from moving and can phase deep underground (where Minato has no AOE/digging abilities to get to Orochi) where Minato can't hit him. Still restricting him I see.



I wanted to write "fast".

Anyway, Minato has shown himself to be a lot faster than any Sage except for SM Madara/Hashirama. And i mean, a lot. He teleported to Kushina, took her with his hands and shunshinned away from Kurama's hit on a 100-meters distance in a moment. SM Naruto, War Arc SM Naruto by the way, had problems with dodging half-Kurama hits and said Kurama is fast, yet Minato can embarrace full Kurama with his own speed. And that's only one instance, there are even more. His Shunshin, his overall speed is so great for Orochimaru that he wont be able to do anything. Minato simply speedblitz him without effort. The distance is too short, Orochimaru wont be able to react and Minato can easily escape from his counter-attacks thanks to his Shunshin speed (faster than Raikage Ei's) and sensing ability.

Orochimaru wont be able to blink before Minato decapitates him.



IzayaOrihara said:


> He survived four internal decapitations via Kabuto's chakra scalpel so it still counts. He survived bisection in both human and white snake form. Why don't you f*cking read my post?
> *Spoiler*:



As for snake form, it wasnt a decapitation.

As for human form - i dont care about his eye color beforeusing OR. You claimed he died and OR had been used after his death - i'd like to see a proof, not your fanfic opinion.

For now, Orochimaru in his human form has never, ever, survived a decapitation, or his head being cut in half. Minato can do both of those before Orochimaru can react.



IzayaOrihara said:


> Yes it does. You would know if you bothered to read my post.
> 
> *Spoiler*: _Look At Orochimaru's Eyes_
> 
> ...



So predictable, realy.

The color of his eyes in that panel does not prove he was dead at that moment. Who knows why Kishimoto has drawn his eyes in that way. Fanfic doesnt work in The Battledome.

Let me know when he used snake form after somebody killed him. I still dont see any proof that decapitating him before he can do anything, or cutting his head in half wont result in an instant death.

Yes, i know he has his own dimension. However, still no proof he would survive injuries like that thanks to that dimension.




IzayaOrihara said:


> Once again, you didnt read my post. Sasuke, who:
> 
> Has Immunity To Poisons
> Has The Perceptive Abilities Of Sharingan
> ...



Aaaaaand...

Didnt have any kind of sensory abilities. And we know that Minato is a good one.

Wasnt even remotely close to Minato in terms of speed.

Most of his poisons wont hit Minato and the one from his blood, well, it is from his blood, so the sensory ability is a good counter to it, with the speed of course.

Hell, even if Minato gets caught, he can Hiraishin away.

Minato doesnt require Sage Mode to speedblitz Oro.



IzayaOrihara said:


> Once again, ignorance.



Ignorance? Orochimaru cant be sealed?

Minato speedblitz him, summons the altar and even if Orochimaru stays alive, Minato seals him in his kunai, for example.

Flawless victory.



IzayaOrihara said:


> So this is what we have:
> 
> Restrict Orochimaru's ability to use Leech All Creation.
> Grant Minato greater-than-Hanzo-level immunity to poisons.
> ...



1. Minato speedblitz him before he can react, thus before he can use Hiru Bansho.
2. Minato doesnt have immunity, however, thanks to his sensing and speed, Orochimaru wont be able to poison him.
3. All of these are useless if Orochimaru dies.
4. Orochimaru cant withstand kunai hits and Minato has planty of them.
5. I think i'll add here the Databook statement about Minato's sealing jutsu. Later. He can seal Orochimaru.
6. WHich are useless because, again, Minato speedblitz him before he can react.

Both Manda and Edos can be countered by Minato's sealing jutsus. Manda is not a huge chakra monster so it will be sealed without much of an effort. Not to mention Orochimaru wont summon it before Minato speedblitz him.

You are not the debater great enough to give me a challenge. I can counter pretty much all of your arguements while not even trying much. 

But i'll try a lot, later, so i can solo this thread all by myself. Minato >>> any Sannin, period.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 20, 2016)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> A mod sacrified himself to seal Izaya's arms. It'll be long before he can post again. We are safe for now.
> NF Kuzushi failed.


Well I waited 2 weeks for my ban to be lifted just to respond to this and @StarWanderer, who I am going to ask for to be banned if he veer speaks to me in such a condescending manner again.



StarWanderer said:


> That's right, dude - whatever. If Itachi can overcome his durability with a simple kunai, than Minato, a Hokage, will do the same. That's a manga fact, Orochimaru's durability has never been good against something sharp. At least i dont remember those instances.


Orochimaru still survived chakra scalpel to the neck and bisection at the waist so what's your point exactly?



> Anyway, Minato has shown himself to be a lot faster than any Sage except for SM Madara/Hashirama. And i mean, a lot. He teleported to Kushina, took her with his hands and shunshinned away from Kurama's hit on a 100-meters distance in a moment. SM Naruto, War Arc SM Naruto by the way, had problems with dodging half-Kurama hits and said Kurama is fast, yet Minato can embarrace full Kurama with his own speed. And that's only one instance, there are even more. His Shunshin, his overall speed is so great for Orochimaru that he wont be able to do anything. Minato simply speedblitz him without effort. The distance is too short, Orochimaru wont be able to react and Minato can easily escape from his counter-attacks thanks to his Shunshin speed (faster than Raikage Ei's) and sensing ability.


.... How does any of this make Minato immune to poison?



> Orochimaru wont be able to blink before Minato decapitates him.


.... and when he does, snake form comes out and poisons him.



> As for snake form, it wasnt a decapitation.


So what (I never said so anyway)? His body was in pieces and then he said he cannot be destroyed.



> As for human form - i dont care about his eye color beforeusing OR. You claimed he died and OR had been used after his death - i'd like to see a proof, not your fanfic opinion.


That was the proof of his human body dying, but because you can't counter it, you 1) say you don't care and 2) ask me to provide the evidence again.



> For now, Orochimaru in his human form has never, ever, survived a decapitation,


Yes he has.


> or his head being cut in half. Minato can do both of those before Orochimaru can react.


I never said he did survive his head being cut in half.



> The color of his eyes in that panel does not prove he was dead at that moment. Who knows why Kishimoto has drawn his eyes in that way. Fanfic doesnt work in The Battledome.


So instead of accepting the evidence your excuse is "who knows why Kishi drew like that". Honestly these excuses for minato's inferiority get funnier and funnier each and every day.



> Let me know when he used snake form after somebody killed him. I still dont see any proof that decapitating him before he can do anything, or cutting his head in half wont result in an instant death


His life is not limited to human form. It is limited to his snake form.

You keep saying "let me know" and "show me proof" Why dont you show me when Minato sealed a human being away that is not just a mould of chakra. Let me know when Minato became immune to poison.



> Yes, i know he has his own dimension. However, still no proof he would survive injuries like that thanks to that dimension.


There is every proof. His human body has tanked Tsunade's punch (a one hit kill punch), and his mind could still activate chakra (showing the dimensional mind in use) after a decapitation (Kabuto's chakra scalpel) and even tanked the reduced blast of a KN4 TBB.



> Didnt have any kind of sensory abilities. And we know that Minato is a good one.


So? Sharingan saw the nano-molecules of C4 but not the poison. And when did living Minato ever use SM? Why don't you provide that proof.



> Wasnt even remotely close to Minato in terms of speed.


So? Mianto is not going to know the poison gas is coming so speed is useless.



> Most of his poisons wont hit Minato and the one from his blood, well, it is from his blood, so the sensory ability is a good counter to it, with the speed of course.


The poison will hit Minato after he cuts up/Rasengans the snake body.



> Hell, even if Minato gets caught, he can Hiraishin away.


And ....? The poison will still be in his body. He can run from France to Brazil if he wants to but the poison will still eat away at his body cells and he will die. It's inevitable.



> Minato doesnt require Sage Mode to speedblitz Oro.


He won't be moving anyway due to Kanashibari no Jutsu. And considering SM is the greatest power of Jiraiya (who is weaker than Orochimaru) I sdon't see that being the abilty to finish him off.



> Ignorance? Orochimaru cant be sealed?


Not by what was used to seal the Kyuubi. Orochimaru is a human, not a piece of chakra. If that can be used, then why didnt Minato seal Tobi inside his kunai? So no, Minato has no way of sealing him unless he uses Shiki Fuujin so at best Minato can force this battle into a draw. Otherwise, he loses terribly. He can't put down Manda or the Edos either,



> Minato speedblitz him, summons the altar and even if Orochimaru stays alive, Minato seals him in his kunai, for example.


Let me get this into your thick skull one last time kid - Orochimaru is not liquidated chakra.



> 1. Minato speedblitz him before he can react, thus before he can use Hiru Bansho.
> 2. Minato doesnt have immunity, however, thanks to his sensing and speed, Orochimaru wont be able to poison him.
> 3. All of these are useless if Orochimaru dies.
> 4. Orochimaru cant withstand kunai hits and Minato has planty of them.
> ...


All lies. And where is the DB statement? None? Lol. Because it's all lies.
You're just going against the points I stated earlier and provided evidence for.



> Both Manda and Edos can be countered by Minato's sealing jutsus. Manda is not a huge chakra monster so it will be sealed without much of an effort. Not to mention Orochimaru wont summon it before Minato speedblitz him.


There is no evidence that Edos are prone to Contract Seal (they are not controlled against their will like Kyuubi and Sharingan, they are summoned to fight for the jutsu caster). And even if they are, Orochimaru can overwrite the control by using another Fuda Tag (which has enough power to overwrite even the control of Kotoamatsukami).

"Manda is not a huge chakra monster"- that is exactly when he won't be sealed, but of course, people like you don't listen/don't read the manga so it's pointless debating with you. You're lazy and your arguments are so easy to counter It's almost not worth wasting the time for.



> You are not the debater great enough to give me a challenge. I can counter pretty much all of your arguements while not even trying much.


Lol how ironic. It's me who used scans to prove my points while you're entire trash can argument is just theory. It's all in your head mate.



> But i'll try a lot, later, so i can solo this thread all by myself. Minato >>> any Sannin, period.


People like you never try because you have no argument. You just say some nonsense and try to get away with it.

Orochimaru > Minato. Get over yourself mate.

I won this debate 15 days ago so I don't see why I bother wasting any more time on you.

I write essays on Naruto Forums and people ignore them and just get away with it. I guess i'll just start doing the same from now on. If people never give me a good enough response I'll just ignore them. That way everyone is kept happy.


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 20, 2016)

Just invited you to this private conversation @StarWanderer. Continue debating here if you want but I don't mind if you don't want to since I won already.

Honestly, despite all the drama and annoying-ness, I did rather enjoy this thread. It was fun coming back to NF after a while and having such a nicely ready made Orochimaru thread to solo.



Clowe said:


> Minato babyshakes, these two should't even be compared to each other.


I don't know why you or anyone else thought this was funny, considering the author of the manga compared these shinobi together opn 3 separate occasions. Honestly the intelligence of people on this forum has depreciated. Not talking about you directly @Clowe, but just in general. People just make excuses for their favourite characters and cut out the bits of the canon they don't like, such as where the people opposing their favourites in the NBD showed the feats to defeat your favourite character. It's pathetic really, but hey, I can't force you to accept the canon. You can use all the fanfic you like from now on.


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## Sapherosth (Oct 20, 2016)

IzayaOrihara said:


> I don't know why you or anyone else thought this was funny, considering the author of the manga compared these shinobi together opn 3 separate occasions. Honestly the intelligence of people on this forum has depreciated. Not talking about you directly @Clowe, but just in general. *People just make excuses for their favourite characters and cut out the bits of the canon they don't like, such as where the people opposing their favourites* in the NBD showed the feats to defeat your favourite character. It's pathetic really, but hey, I can't force you to accept the canon. You can use all the fanfic you like from now on.




Ohh the irony

Reactions: Funny 1 | Winner 1


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## Android (Oct 20, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Ohh the irony


Ohh the

Reactions: Winner 1


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 20, 2016)

Sapherosth said:


> Ohh the irony


So since you "disagree" with me in a way that means that you do think that Orochimaru and Minato were never compared - so I was right! You are dyslexic!


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## IzayaOrihara (Oct 20, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> Ohh the


I would just ignore this minor nuisance called Sapherosth. He thinks V4 Susanoo (which is smaller than Aoda's head) is bigger than Manda and the Bijuu. He clearly has internal issues he needs to deal with.


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## Baroxio (Oct 20, 2016)

Orochimaru enters White Snake mode and suddenly there's literally nothing Minato can do. Damaging Orochimaru in this state does nothing except release a nerve toxin, at which point Minato's only defense - his speed and reactions, is nullified.

Hell, even if Minato spreads seal tags everyone, Orochimaru can just throw up 1000 snakes with Mandara no Jin and have his snakes eat them all. Orochimaru is a walking counter to Minato, and he doesn't need Edo to win.

The only recourse is to give Minato some powerful ability that he never displayed in the manga, like a way to seal Orochimaru that DOESN'T require him to give up his soul or something.

Reactions: Winner 2


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