# Itachi vs. current Kakashi (chapter 600-whatever spoilers)



## Nikushimi (Aug 7, 2014)

Kakashi's balls have gotten pretty damn big apparently since he got both of them back from Obito.

Let's see how well he handles the King.

*Location:* Kishimoto's House
*Distance:* 5m (Solo Radius)
*Knowledge:* Full
*Mindset:* Totsuka GG
*Conditions/Restrictions:*
-Summoning Galactus

If Kakashi is outclassed too badly, add Kaguya as backup.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 7, 2014)

With Kakashis featless PS and full intel for Itachi something can actually be debated here. Itachi's only way to win is to get Kakashi too Kamui one of his clones, with full intel and Itachi's intelligence this can actually be done. On the other hand, Kakashi has far better stamina so Kakashi still wins this more times then not.


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## Turrin (Aug 7, 2014)

Even at the lowest possible strength level Kakashi could be at he murders Itachi


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 7, 2014)

Despite Kakashi's stamina being featless, we can at least scale it to Madara's. Thus Itachi is absolutely destroyed.


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## Bonly (Aug 7, 2014)

I'd say Kakashi had a good shot at beating Itachi with everything he showed before Madara ripped out his Sharingan eye and would say it's a 50/50 shot. Add in a second Kamui eye and PS ready to be used and scales now tip in Kakashi's favor


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## Jagger (Aug 7, 2014)

Niku, you and I know perfectly well Kishi is going to make Kakashi's 10 seconds of glory the biggest ones because he's like that.

After all, it happened the same with Gai.

Edit: Oh wait, is this Pre-PS Kakashi? Then, it's a tough call. I'm leaning towards Kakashi, though. His Kamui is broken, but then again, he can't spam it since Itachi is the kind of shinobi that exploits a chance to win.

I might have to think about it.


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## Lurko (Aug 8, 2014)

Kakashi takes this,  snipes his head off.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOL is that a joke? Explain.


Power-scaling. Same attack, same size, until we get more feats its the best we can do Destiny Monarch. Never heard of the term?


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 8, 2014)

Kakashi fazes through whatever attack Itachi poses initially and then leaves his eye tangible to warp him while the rest of his body is intangible.

As far as his stamina is concerned, it should be evident Obito wrapped his spiritual essence around Kakashi, granting him the power he had in his lifetime- one of which which was extreme stamina.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

I already made this and they locked it. But everyone said Itachi lost.


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## Legendary Itachi (Aug 8, 2014)

Kishi won't allow Kakashi to take the King in his house. 

A kunai will end this 1 second. Add on Kaguya and maybe 2 seconds.


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## OG Appachai (Aug 8, 2014)

inb4 100+ posts because its a itachi thread.

Kakashi wins more times than not. kamui hax period point blank


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## StickaStick (Aug 8, 2014)

Even with these ridiculous stipulations Kakashi still takes it.


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## Trojan (Aug 8, 2014)

MS Kakashi was already stronger than itachi imo.

his current stage however is feat-less. It's very unlikely as well that kishi will make Kakashi look impressive against
Kaguya's seemingly strongest form, when Sasuke got his ass kicked against Kaguya effortlessly. 

In addition, unless Kishi went completely retarded mode, Kakashi shouldn't be able to use his PS & Kamui at the same time either because of his chakra. Because we know that it require such a massive amount of chakra to even just teleport the 8tails in and out, even though Naruto made Kakashi more than 3 times stronger than what he really is, yet he got drained completely after only 1 time, so it's not rational imo to assume otherwise.

Well, that's my opinion on him unless shown otherwise in the upcoming chapters...


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## Cognitios (Aug 8, 2014)

Is summoning Galactus a condition that Itachi or Kakashi can use?
Or a restriction that Itachi or Kakashi can't use?
But 5 meters allows for a totsuka blitz
Also is Kishi at his house?
Because portrayal wise Kishi would write it so Itachi would win.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 8, 2014)

Itachi vanishes.

You think it's a feint or a genjutsu, but he is in fact no longer of this dimension.


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## Thunder (Aug 8, 2014)

Itachi is the one at the mercy of Kakashi's Mangekyō Sharingan now. The tables have turned. 

While in the box dimension Itachi contemplates why he doesn't solo anymore.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2014)

Koto isn't restricted. Itachi oneshots


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 8, 2014)

> While in the box dimension Itachi contemplates why he doesn't solo anymore.


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## Garcher (Aug 8, 2014)

If Kakashi can do PS after having 2 MS for 2 seconds, Itachi can do it too. It's no big deal anymore.

Perfect Totsuka GG instablitzes and cuts through Kamui dimension


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> If Kakashi can do PS after having 2 MS for 2 seconds, Itachi can do it too. It's no big deal anymore.
> 
> Perfect Totsuka GG instablitzes and cuts through Kamui dimension



not to troll but i seriously think any skillful uchiha under the right conditions can erect ps if a non uchiha has done it.


the only other explanation i have is that kakashi copied it by looking at sasuke which is why they called him the copy ninja when he got both ms, thats the only other explanation i can think of


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## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> not to troll but i seriously think any skillful uchiha under the right conditions can erect ps if a non uchiha has done it.
> 
> 
> the only other explanation i have is that kakashi copied it by looking at sasuke which is why they called him the copy ninja when he got both ms, thats the only other explanation i can think of



Too bad that never happened. After EMS Sasuke still didn't get PS. There's no case for Itachi.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Too bad that never happened. After EMS Sasuke still didn't get PS. There's no case for Itachi.



what makes you think sasuke didn't have ps when he made a legged v3 susano?


and I'm curious to hear your explanation on what makes kakashi diff then the likes of sasuke, itachi and madara?


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## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> what makes you think sasuke didn't have ps when he made a legged v3 susano?



Never showed it. What makes you think Kakashi didn't have PS 2 chapters ago?




> and I'm curious to hear your explanation on what makes kakashi diff then the likes of sasuke, itachi and madara?



Son of the white fang, graduated the academy at age 5 (better than all of them), was a jounin by 13, mastered the sharingan despite not being an Uchiha, and ,most importantly, FEATS.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 8, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Despite Kakashi's stamina being featless, we can at least scale it to Madara's.



No we can't.

Madara has arguably the best stamina out of anyone the Uchiha clan ever produced, and recently he's had Hashirama DNA and Senjutsu to augment it (and, even more recently, the Juubi).

In no way are any observations of Madara's stamina transferable to Kakashi.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> not to troll but i seriously think any skillful uchiha under the right conditions can erect ps if a non uchiha has done it.
> 
> 
> the only other explanation i have is that kakashi copied it by looking at sasuke which is why they called him the copy ninja when he got both ms, thats the only other explanation i can think of



Did you think of Kishimoto just being a turd?


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## Bloo (Aug 8, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Kakashi has far better stamina so Kakashi still wins this more times then not.


His stamina without sharingan is far better. But, Sharingan drains him much more and makes his stamina smaller than Itachi's because Itachi's sharingan hardly takes any chakra from him. This is an established fact. But, with the war arc disregarding the issue of stamina, I can see where this is coming from.

Kakashi wins more often than not. The only arguments you could make for Itachi involve Totsuka Sword and Yata Mirror, which don't have good enough feats to support an argument with, or Izanami. The latter is Itachi's only logical way of winning this, and with full intel for Itachi, it's possible. The only issue with Izanami is I don't know if it would work on Kakashi. He still has internal issues with Obito which may make him trapped in the loop, but he doesn't seem insecure like Kabuto. I don't know. If Izanami were possible, Itachi could take this, granted he may die while setting it up. If not, Itachi loses.

But, the location is Kishimoto's House, Itachi may have a huge advantage here that we don't know about.


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## Complete_Ownage (Aug 8, 2014)

In before lock

War arc Kakashi was not far off from Itachi to begin with. His new power puts him leaps and bounds stronger then him


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## lathia (Aug 8, 2014)

Wow this fandom has been reduced to. 

"If Kakashi can, so can Itachi."
"Kishi wouldn't let that happen."



Any battle where power inflation has taken a dump on Itachi isn't fair. We need Kishi to update Itachi.


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## Elite Uchiha (Aug 8, 2014)

War Arc Kakashi > Itachi

Minato >>>>> PS Kakashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Itachi


Kakashi has way to much hax for Itachi to handle.


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## Trojan (Aug 8, 2014)

lathia said:


> Wow this fandom has been reduced to.
> 
> "If Kakashi can, so can Itachi."
> "Kishi wouldn't let that happen."
> ...



it's pretty sad how this war took a dumb on itachi, i guess.


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> it's pretty sad how this war took a *dumb* on itachi, i guess.



Do you mean dupe?


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## Dr. White (Aug 8, 2014)

With full Kakashi wips out PS, and proceeds to solo. Even without PS Kakashi becomes so much more deadlier with double Kamui that outside, of bushin/Amaterasu and Surprise Tsukuyomi, I don't see how he can win. Then there is Kakashi having Izanagi possibly...like it's just crazy

No knowledge results in this fight ending up like Pt. 1 Kakashi vs Itachi, but with Kakashi dead this time.


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## Trojan (Aug 8, 2014)

@Hachibi94
^ I did not mean it like that, but whatever makes sense to you is good with me.  

poor itachi.


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## Hachibi (Aug 8, 2014)

Hussain said:


> @Hachibi94
> ^ I did not mean that, but whatever makes sense to you is good with me.
> 
> poor itachi.



I wanted to say poop but that would be too harsh


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## Hero (Aug 8, 2014)

Itachi is absolutely fodderized


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## Sadgoob (Aug 8, 2014)

lathia said:


> Wow this fandom has been reduced to.
> 
> "If Kakashi can, so can Itachi."
> "Kishi wouldn't let that happen."
> ...



If Kishi did "update" Itachi in this arc, it's likely Itachi'd be doing it too though. Kishi's pretty much just clapped his hands, said "fuck it" and started handing out crazy power-ups like candy. 

I don't really understand how Kishi is going to explain this though. Did Kakashi's stamina increase ten thousand fold? Three years ago he could only use the base Sharingan for a few minutes.​


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## Dr. White (Aug 8, 2014)

*The Itachi Fandom at people's attempt to rustle them*



Hero said:


> Itachi is absolutely fodderized


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## lathia (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> If Kishi did "update" Itachi in this arc, it's likely Itachi'd be doing it too though. Or do you disagree?
> 
> I don't really understand how Kishi is going to justify this though.​



No doubt in my mind Strategoob. He's a "good" guy and the power of love is some serious shit lol. I wouldn't be surprised if Kishi allows Sasuke to pull something off related to Itachi's eyes soon.


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> If Kishi did "update" Itachi in this arc, it's likely Itachi'd be doing it too though. Kishi's pretty much just clapped his hands, said "fuck it" and started handing out crazy power-ups like candy.
> 
> I don't really understand how Kishi is going to explain this though. Did Kakashi's stamina increase ten thousand fold? Three years ago he could only use the base Sharingan for a few minutes.​



It should be noted that obito still retained certain traits from the juubi even after it was removed from his body. It suspect those traits are what allowed him access to PS even w/o the EMS, he probably transferred not only his MS but also a piece of the juubi's chakra.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 8, 2014)

Yeah, that might explain it. But then again, I thought Obito said he was about out of chakra before kicking the bucket. Still. It's definitely better than nothing when explaining Kakashi's new stamina.​


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## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> If Kishi did "update" Itachi in this arc, it's likely Itachi'd be doing it too though. Kishi's pretty much just clapped his hands, said "fuck it" and *started handing out crazy power-ups* like candy.
> ​





I know u Itachi fans are very hurt by this new Kakashi power

_" Omg, no it can't be, Itachi moved even further down the 'who gives a fuck teir' " lol ( In their minds) ​_

Kakashi beats the living or edo shit out of Itachi ---- low to mid diff


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Power-scaling. Same attack, same size, until we get more feats its the best we can do Destiny Monarch. Never heard of the term?



That's the equivalent of saying Hachibi has the same amount of chakra as Kurama, Bijudamas, same technique, same size. Or Itachi has the same amount of chakra as Sasuke, Ametarasu, same technique, same size. That's possibly the most flawed logic I have ever seen. 

And BTW, Kakashi's Susano'O is significantly shorter then Madara's.


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## Dr. White (Aug 8, 2014)

I already negged him Goob don't waste your time.


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## Sadgoob (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> I know u Itachi fans are very hurt by this new Kakashi power.



We're just waiting for it to make sense.  Kakashi beats Itachi _and all of Akatsuki_ now. Intangibility, head-warping, and perfect Susano'o? Those are all the supreme eye powers in one guy.

I tease about the legendary items being flawless and perfect defenses and offenses, but those kamui powers are the real deal, and Perfect Susano'o is the best destructive power to date.​


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## JuicyG (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> We're just waiting for it to make sense.  Kakashi beats Itachi _and all of Akatsuki_ now. Intangibility, head-warping, and perfect Susano'o? Those are all the supreme eye powers in one guy.​





Cool Cool..

Well at least your humble about it all. Itachi should have been given more in the series then what he was left with though. I always thought he would have been the new generation Madara ( but good)


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> If Kishi did "update" Itachi in this arc, it's likely Itachi'd be doing it too though. Kishi's pretty much just clapped his hands, said "fuck it" and started handing out crazy power-ups like candy.
> 
> I don't really understand how Kishi is going to explain this though. Did Kakashi's stamina increase ten thousand fold? Three years ago he could only use the base Sharingan for a few minutes.​



He will most likely present an explanation. But it will be complete and utter horseshit that involves Obito's will, chakra and Kakashi's hidden potential. We won't buy it. We'll just have to go with it.


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## Bloo (Aug 8, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> I know u Itachi fans are very hurt by this new Kakashi power
> 
> _" Omg, no it can't be, Itachi moved even further down the 'who gives a fuck teir' " lol ( In their minds) ​_


I couldn't care less about it. And most of the entire forum is annoyed with this power-up because of its lack of rationality. To me, Itachi remains the better character and that's all I care about.


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## Lurko (Aug 8, 2014)

Poor poor Itachi,  he had so much potential.


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## Zenith (Aug 8, 2014)

i think this incarnation of kakashi actually forces Itachi to unzip his pants


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## StickaStick (Aug 8, 2014)

If anyone cared to check out some of the theories going around in the telegrams concerning how Kakashi was able to invoke P-Susanoo and how he'll maintain it, there are a couple that actually make quite a bit of sense that are centered around herp-derp explanations.


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2014)

Kakashi with one Sharingan/Mangekyo Sharingan had already slightly better/better feats than Itachi in pretty much everything, speed/taijutsu/chakra/stamina/ninjutsu/smartness etc bar genjutsu that wouldn't have really made a difference with full knowledge, and the one shot skill in the Kamui GG.

Now you add to this all Obito's Kamui powers and a Perfect Susanoo? There is really a new Solo King in the city. Ops, it's the Solo Emperor here.

Also a bad troll thread, a similar Itachi vs Kakashi and an Itachi and Kabuto vs Kakashi have been already closed because too much unbalanced.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kakashi with one Sharingan/Mangekyo Sharingan had already slightly better/better feats than Itachi in pretty much everything, speed/taijutsu/chakra/stamina/ninjutsu/smartness




Troll harder.


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 8, 2014)

Raikiri19 said:


> *Kakashi with one Sharingan/Mangekyo Sharingan had already slightly better/better feats than Itachi in pretty much everything, speed/taijutsu/chakra/stamina/ninjutsu/smartness etc bar genjutsu that wouldn't have really made a difference with full knowledge, and the one shot skill in the Kamui GG.*
> 
> Now you add to this all Obito's Kamui powers and a Perfect Susanoo? There is really a new Solo King in the city. Ops, it's the Solo Emperor here.
> 
> Also a bad troll thread, a similar Itachi vs Kakashi and an Itachi and Kabuto vs Kakashi have been already closed because too much unbalanced.



Sorry to tell you, but Madara has not been dethroned yet. 

Also, though Kakashi wins this more times then not, the bolded could not be further from the truth. Itachi is faster then Kakashi. Itachi is better in Taijutsu then Kakashi and Itachi is smarter then Kakashi. And Kamui isn't one shoting anyone here. PS is the only reason Kakashi wins here.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Never showed it. What makes you think Kakashi didn't have PS 2 chapters ago?



Because he had no sharingon  

if you don't have a answer to refute my claim why respond?


IchLiebe said:


> Son of the white fang, graduated the academy at age 5 (better than all of them), was a jounin by 13, mastered the sharingan despite not being an Uchiha, and ,most importantly, FEATS.



Ok itachi was captain of the anbu black ops by age 13 and was canonically stronger then kakashi, as he was able to solo sanin level opponents by the age of 13 something kakashi wasn't able to do until part 2 of the series.


Madara has been superior to kakashi threw out the entire manga, and is  a descendent of one of the sons I'm sure i don't need to go into much detail with this.

Sasuke is a decedent as well 






Nikushimi said:


> Did you think of Kishimoto just being a turd?



Not really it did seem a little forced the way obito gave it to him but in terms of him summoning PS i will say this.



Susano has never had clear guidelines on it's abilities, it was never stated you need Ems to use it, to me it looks like susano reacts to its users emotions.

Sasuke tho he is a uchiha, literally just unlocked his MS, where as kakashi had it for majority of part 2, so i guess a case could be made for him not being able to erect even a stage 4 susano right away this is assuming ms mastery and susano are linked together which i believe should be the case.


who has itachi fought where he ever really needed to erect ps?

Heibi sasuke ? he was actively trying to lose

Kabuto, he wasn't allowed to kill

and nagato he has assistance.

madara already had the gokage outclassed and wouldn't need his susano to sprout wings to kill them, also interesting to note madara didn't seem surprised when sasuke's susano erected wings.



Kakashi has had a good deal of time to master his ms, threw out the manga, sakura was about to die, and he just witness his best friend die, imo kakashi emotions fueled susano and he was able to erect ps because of this.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Because he had no sharingon
> 
> if you don't have a answer to refute my claim why respond?



Madara had no eyes and still had susanoo.

And I did answer it. He never showed it.



> Ok itachi was captain of the anbu black ops by age 13 and was canonically stronger then kakashi, as he was able to solo sanin level opponents by the age of 13 something kakashi wasn't able to do until part 2 of the series.



Stronger because it was handed to him through MS. Jounin is the highest rank a ninja can have besides Hokage. And Kakashi had raikiri, rasengan, sensing, and was as fast as part 1 Lee. That puts him above featless Itachi.



> Madara has been superior to kakashi threw out the entire manga, and is  a descendent of one of the sons I'm sure i don't need to go into much detail with this.
> 
> Sasuke is a decedent as well



Madara is the absolute best Uchiha to ever exist. Even then, his genius isn't as good as Kakashi's (IMO). He's smart and clever but had it handed to him with sharingan.

Sasuke was hardly a genius. It wasn't until he got sharingan that he actually did something, the same as every Uchiha.

Kakashi is just a genius who was good before sharingan. Then took sharingan and became famous for him using it properly, then mastered MS something no one thought a non Uchiha could even awaken. 

Take sharingan from all of them and you have useless Itachi, a great Taijutsu fighter in Madara who would be weakened, and Sasuke who got's damn near nothing. While Kakashi still has sensing, genjutsu and 1000 jutsu.


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Aug 8, 2014)

Strategoob said:


> Yeah, that might explain it. But then again, I thought Obito said he was about out of chakra before kicking the bucket. Still. It's definitely better than nothing when explaining Kakashi's new stamina.​



Shizune has been giving him Senju cell infusions to treat his chakra exhaustion every time he was hospitalized.  One more stay and he'll be able to break out the Bhudda.


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## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Madara had no eyes and still had susanoo.


Madara had 2 sharingon prior and already unlocked susano

before the last chapter kakashi never had 2 sharingon eyes thus could not unlock susano



IchLiebe said:


> And I did answer it. He never showed it.



see above


IchLiebe said:


> Stronger because it was handed to him through MS. Jounin is the highest rank a ninja can have besides Hokage. And Kakashi had raikiri, rasengan, sensing, and was as fast as part 1 Lee. That puts him above featless Itachi.



itachi was captain of the anbu before he had ms and he also beat a sanin level opponent with 3 tomoe sharingon, something kakashi could not do but ok

This makes no sense, so is kakshi's current power up somehow not relevant because it was handed to him from ms and his best friend? Kakashi doesn't have sensing but ok and itachi is faster then both him and part 1 rock lee 



IchLiebe said:


> Madara is the absolute best Uchiha to ever exist. Even then, his genius isn't as good as Kakashi's (IMO). He's smart and clever but had it handed to him with sharing an.



this is pure wank at its finest, as kakashi's best accomplishments come from him having the sharingon 

his 1000 jutsu are attributed to his sharingon, his lightning blade is incomplete without sharingon, he doesn't have access to kamui without sharingon, like i really don't see your point.

so we are to now all of a sudden double standard it to madara when kakashi is also among the ppl who needed the sharingon threw out the entire manga?


IchLiebe said:


> Sasuke was hardly a genius. It wasn't until he got sharingan that he actually did something, the same as every Uchiha.



same as for kakash 


IchLiebe said:


> Kakashi is just a genius who was good before sharingan. Then took sharingan and became famous for him using it properly, then mastered MS something no one thought a non Uchiha could even awaken.



without the sharingon kakashi was getting his assed saved by 2 tomoe sharingon obito but ok bro.



IchLiebe said:


> Take sharingan from all of them and you have useless Itachi, a great Taijutsu fighter in Madara who would be weakened, and Sasuke who got's damn near nothing. While Kakashi still has sensing, genjutsu and 1000 jutsu.



Kakashi wouldn't have 1000 jutsu, use of raikiri, kamui, or even his damn alias "copy ninja" without sharingon but ok bro keep kidding yourself.


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## richard lewis (Aug 8, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Troll harder.



Eh they where just about on par with each other really, the only real advantage itachi had over him was susanoo in my opinion. And now that's an advantage that kakashi has over itachi. Kakashi obviously wins this.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Madara had 2 sharingon prior and already unlocked susano
> 
> before the last chapter kakashi never had 2 sharingon eyes thus could not unlock susano



And Susanoo is still an MS jutsu. Does that mean Kakashi can use Kamui without sharingan because he already unlocked it. 



> itachi was captain of the anbu before he had ms and he also beat a sanin level opponent with 3 tomoe sharingon, something kakashi could not do but ok



A captain, there's not just one. He didn't beat Orochimaru with just 3 tomoe. The fight was offpanel from that point on and it's clear it progressed as Itachi knew of Orochimaru's trump card. 



> This makes no sense, so is kakshi's current power up somehow not relevant because it was handed to him from ms and his best friend? Kakashi doesn't have sensing but ok and itachi is faster then both him and part 1 rock lee



We're talking 13 year old version. Itachi had no speed feats so you can say he was faster at that age than Kakashi at that age. And even then, Kakashi and Rock Lee is pure physical movement, not shunshin. Itachi has never shown that. And Kakashi has smell sensing. Read beginning part 2, or kakashi gaiden.



> this is pure wank at its finest, as kakashi's best accomplishments come from him having the sharingon



It comes from his intelligence.



> his 1000 jutsu are attributed to his sharingon, his lightning blade is incomplete without sharingon, he doesn't have access to kamui without sharingon, like i really don't see your point.



Raikiri is easily replaced with rasengan which he already knew then. Without Sharigan Itachi doesn't have genjutsu(finger genjutsu, but not sure if that had anything to do with sharingan), no power jutsu. He's basically down to katon, suiton, and taijutus. Kakashi has lightning, doton, suiton, sensing, rasengan, sensing, AND genjutsu.




> so we are to now all of a sudden double standard it to madara when kakashi is also among the ppl who needed the sharingon threw out the entire manga?



No. The thing is Kakashi has shown more than Sharingan. He's not restricted to it. When he was 5 he graduated the academy, at 6 became chunnin, and at age 13 became a jounin and learned rasengan and created chidori. He had sensing at that age. He was a beast. Sharingan kinda hindered him with him nearly passing out after minutes of use. Without it, he would've become just as famous.



> same as for kakash



Kakashi's accomplishments are above. Sasuke didn't graduate the academy till he was 12. That shows how much of a genius he is compared to Kakashi.



> without the sharingon kakashi was getting his assed saved by 2 tomoe sharingon obito but ok bro.



Obito saved him by pushing him out of the way of rocks. SO BOSS .



> Kakashi wouldn't have 1000 jutsu, use of raikiri, kamui, or even his damn alias "copy ninja" without sharingon but ok bro keep kidding yourself.



Itachi wouldn't be alive without his sharingan...oh wait :lol.

Madara would have been fucking stomped by Hashi without his. He even went and got the 9 tails and still lost.

Sasuke...Yeah that failure would be fucking done. 

Kakashi would still have 3 affinites, genjutsu, sensing, raikiri replaced by Rasengan, and his clones. All that and he would still give and Kage a good fight. Itachi without sharingan wouldn't, Sasuke wouldn't, and Madara might because of his taijutsu but that takes a hit because of his prediction lost. His Katon would still fuck shit up too, but Itachi and Sasuke become useless.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> And Susanoo is still an MS jutsu. Does that mean Kakashi can use Kamui without sharingan because he already unlocked it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aside from 95% percent of your post being false, I'm not gonna continue this discussion because its becoming off topic, arguing who is better without sharingon doesn't answer the question why kakashi was able to use ps on first obtaining both ms and the other 3 susano users was not.

You haven't brought up any feats of kakashi having better sharingon mastery then the above 3

your only defense is literally they did not, which isn't a good answer.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 8, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> Aside from 95% percent of your post being false,



Tell me where and I'll provide scans.



> I'm not gonna continue this discussion because its becoming off topic, arguing who is better without sharingon doesn't answer the question why kakashi was able to use ps on first obtaining both ms and the other 3 susano users was not.



Go to the telegrams. Several theory's have been made and all of them use logic and common sense instead,"He's not an Uchiha, he doesnt' have EMS, so no matter what it doesn't make sense." People aren't even trying to understand it no matter what. Everyone who tried to rationalize has just had people call them Kishi dick riders among other insults.



> You haven't brought up any feats of kakashi having better sharingon mastery then the above 3
> 
> your only defense is literally they did not, which isn't a good answer.



Kakashi is the only one who used copying, one of the sharingan's main things and turned it to him being famous for it. He had genjutsu with it. He had MS and has PS with just MS. That alone puts him above the others in mastery. Sure Madara has EMS and Rinnegan but that's not mastery. A master chef can cook more with small amount of ingredients than a novice with a surplus of ingredients. And that's what Kakashi does. He utilizes every aspect. Itachi only did genjutsu, Sasuke again used genjutsu and didn't do anything with copying till Kakashi showed him and then never did it again and then became MS spammer. Madara just did his own thing.


----------



## Bkprince33 (Aug 8, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Tell me where and I'll provide scans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you took the time to read my post you would see I'm actually giving kakashi credit for erecting ps, I'm just simply stating its possible that other skillful sharingon wielders could do the same and actual provide a basis for this, somehow i get the feeling you missed that part


----------



## Ersa (Aug 8, 2014)

The question isn't whether or not Kakashi beats Itachi but whether Kishimoto would ever have that happen.

The answer is no.


----------



## Trojan (Aug 8, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> The question isn't whether or not Kakashi beats Itachi but whether Kishimoto would ever have that happen.
> 
> The answer is no.



why wouldn't he?
Kakashi is way more important than itachi. U_U


----------



## Kazekage94 (Aug 8, 2014)

The battledome isn't Kishimoto's book. Kakashi wins no difficulty.


----------



## StickaStick (Aug 8, 2014)

Why do we think Kishi wouldn't write Kakashi to beat Itachi anyway. He did write him needing assistance against a mind-controlled Nagato and Kabuto, both of whom Current Kakashi stomps.


----------



## Thunder (Aug 8, 2014)

To be fair Itachi receives a field power bonus because the location is Kishi's house. Kakashi still wins though.


----------



## Ersa (Aug 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> why wouldn't he?
> Kakashi is way more important than itachi. U_U


Kishimoto doesn't have a raging boner for Kakashi.


----------



## Lurko (Aug 9, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Kishimoto doesn't have a raging boner for Kakashi.



You sure about that?


----------



## Jad (Aug 9, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> Kishimoto doesn't have a raging boner for Kakashi.



Yeah, I'd question that now bro. Kakashi is the one that has cheated death about 500 times, Itachi cheated death zero times, hence his dead. Unless you count his escape from Gai one


----------



## Lurko (Aug 9, 2014)

Jad said:


> Yeah, I'd question that now bro. Kakashi is the one that has cheated death about 500 times, Itachi cheated death zero times, hence his dead. Unless you count his escape from Gai one



Yeah and he's missing his OP power ups.


----------



## Vice (Aug 9, 2014)

Bkprince33 said:


> You haven't brought up any feats of kakashi having better sharingon mastery then the above 3.



I would say mastering PS in like 30 seconds is a pretty impressive enough feat.


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 9, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> Eh they where just about on par with each other really,



No.
10 char



Vice said:


> I would say mastering PS in like 30 seconds is a pretty impressive enough feat.



Implying it isn't the most retarded "lol plot" moment in the entire manga.



Jad said:


> Yeah, I'd question that now bro. Kakashi is the one that has cheated death about 500 times, Itachi cheated death zero times, hence his dead. Unless you count his escape from Gai one



Sakura did too.


----------



## trance (Aug 9, 2014)

Kishi is the biggest Itachi wanker fan of all time and you made this matchup at his crib? Itachi solos like he always does.


----------



## Nikushimi (Aug 9, 2014)

Kakashi still doesn't have a counter for Tsukuyomi, does he?


----------



## trance (Aug 9, 2014)

As a scrub, Sasuke overcame Tsukuyomi but it took awhile and in that time, Itachi could've oneshotted him like a fodder, not to mention, Itachi was throwing the fight, so I'd say no.


----------



## Nikushimi (Aug 9, 2014)

Vice said:


> I would say mastering PS in like 30 seconds is a pretty impressive enough feat.



How fast he awakened that Jutsu doesn't necessarily reflect better mastery overall.

Especially when he only awakened it due to some BS plot magic where Obito's ghost literally rose up from his disintegrated body and turned a pair of normal non-Uchiha eyeballs into Sharingan.


----------



## Santoryu (Aug 9, 2014)

​


----------



## Nikushimi (Aug 9, 2014)

If that fan art is accurate then I totally just realized Kakashi's PS looks like Star Platinum.


----------



## Santoryu (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Sorry to tell you, but Madara has not been dethroned yet.



Dude was dethroned a while back.



> Itachi is faster then Kakashi.


Prove it. You could say they are comparable in speed but that's about it.



> Itachi is better in Taijutsu


Is that why they clashed equally during their brief scuffle in part 2? And Kakashi also has access to at *least the first gate*, which is a taijutsu technique.




> Itachi is smarter then Kakashi.


I implore you to prove this. Kakashi's intelligence has been compared to that of Shikimaru's on more than one occasion-there's also the fact that Kakashi has actually outwitted Itachi in battle before.



> And Kamui isn't one shoting anyone here. PS is the only reason Kakashi wins here.




Kakashi with or without PS can beat Itachi; even logical Itachi supporters acknowledge this. This is the man that outdid Obito at his own game, this is the man that tangos with Version two Jinjuriki in an exhausted state. This is the man who's ocular powers (with one Sharingan eye alone) were enough to impress Madara before even receiving these upgrades.


----------



## richard lewis (Aug 9, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> No.
> 10 char



Yea actually they where bro.... As I said b4 the only advantage itachi had was susanoo. Kakashi's base abilities where superior and kamui and Amaterasu are about equal with kamui being slightly better. Although TS would also pose a threat to kakashi. But now with double kamui and PS all itachi can do is prepare himself for the rape by lubing up and bending over.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Are we really still having this debate Itachi beating Kakashi thread ?

Seriously Kakashi is now a full tier above Itachi...sorry to say


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

Hasn't Kakashi been above Itachi since the middle of the Juubi arc?

Now that Kakashi has gained an albeit featless yet still Madara scalable upgrade

Why the heck are we having another argument??


----------



## Destiny Monarch (Aug 9, 2014)

Santoryu said:


> Dude was dethroned a while back.



The only person who is stronger then him is Kaguya, and she is not used in Vs threads often, so Madara is still the Solo King. 




> Prove it. You could say they are comparable in speed but that's about it.



Itachi  Bee. And saved Sasuke from a attack Sasuke not able to react to and defend himself in time against Here. Then there is the fact that Kakashi was baffled at how fast he was back in their fight in Part 1. 



> Is that why they clashed equally during their brief scuffle in part 2? And Kakashi also has access to at *least the first gate*, which is a taijutsu technique.



You mean the clash agasint someone disguised as Itachi? Itachi was able to clash with the likes of KCM Naruto [1]. That is superior to anything Kakashi has done in both Taijutsu skill AND Speed. 



> I implore you to prove this. Kakashi's intelligence has been compared to that of Shikimaru's on more than one occasion-there's also the fact that Kakashi has actually outwitted Itachi in battle before.



Itachi has Hokage worthy intelligence at the age 7. That alone trumps anything Kakashi can do. Then there is the fact that he basically planned out Sasuke's life up until his death (And even after against Tobi) without getting caught by anyone. 





> Kakashi with or without PS can beat Itachi; even logical Itachi supporters acknowledge this. This is the man that outdid Obito at his own game, this is the man that tangos with Version two Jinjuriki in an exhausted state. This is the man who's ocular powers (with one Sharingan eye alone) were enough to impress Madara before even receiving these upgrades.



I am not even an Itachi fanboy and I can say that with Full Intel, Itachi can beat Kakashi without PS. You mean outdid Obito because he had the perfect counter to him and Full Intel? It was basically Base Kakashi Vs Base Obito and Kakashi won High-Diff, that's not that impressive. Kakashi was not exhausted agaisnt when he was fighting the Jinchurikis. Furthermore, they where Edos (Much weaker forms of the original) and on top of that they where being controlled by Obito (As we have seen before, taking away their intelligence severally handicaps Edos). And its not like he won or even was winning, all he was able to do was cut off their chakra arms. Many people have impressed Madara before, almost every Kage individually impressed Madara (Tsunade, Ay and Oonoki). Then there is also the fact that Madara indirectly also praised Itachi when he said there where capable Ninja on their side (Reffering to Itachi stopping Kabuto),


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> The only person who is stronger then him is *Kaguya,* and she is not used in Vs threads often, so Madara is still the Solo King.



Well Kaguya is basically Female Madara thank to BZ so he turned form the Solo King to the Solo Queen


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> The only person who is stronger then him is Kaguya, and she is not used in Vs threads often, so Madara is still the Solo King.



Naruto would destroy him.



> Itachi  Bee. And saved Sasuke from a attack Sasuke not able to react to and defend himself in time against Here. Then there is the fact that Kakashi was baffled at how fast he was back in their fight in Part 1.



He didn't blitz him. He got behind him. Bee was also so it wasn't a speed feat really. Itachi had only time to protect Sasuke so that kinda shows his speed in bad light. He couldn't erect susanoo that fast. And Kakashi was surpised by his handseal speed, and matched him evenly. 



> You mean the clash agasint someone disguised as Itachi? Itachi was able to clash with the likes of KCM Naruto [1]. That is superior to anything Kakashi has done in both Taijutsu skill AND Speed.



Naruto was not trying then. He was talking and just going through motions. We've seen a serious KCM Naruto and he would smash Itachi.



> Itachi has Hokage worthy intelligence at the age 7. That alone trumps anything Kakashi can do. Then there is the fact that he basically planned out Sasuke's life up until his death (And even after against Tobi) without getting caught by anyone.



He THOUGHT like a hokage. As in village before clan. He was not as smart as them, only had priority's like them.And his plan for Sasuke's life failed at every turn.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Well* Kaguya is basically Female Madara* thank to BZ so he turned form the Solo King to the Solo Queen








ummm NO ?!?!? 

Not even close, Kaguya is much more powerful than Madara in any form. Your crazy to think otherwise


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> ummm NO ?!?!?
> 
> Not even close, Kaguya is much more powerful than Madara in any form. Your crazy to think otherwise



Kaguya has no answer to Meteors or The Truth Seeker Orb


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Kaguya has no answer to Meteors or The Truth Seeker Orb




We should assume she does...

If juubidara > Kaguya then..

sasuke+Naurto> Kaguya...which is not the case as we have seen.


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> We should assume she does...
> 
> If juubidara > Kaguya then..
> 
> sasuke+Naurto> Kaguya...which is not the case as we have seen.



Fanboy Wank!

Sasuke speedblitzed her while Naruto one shotted her with a few Rasenshuriken

The Same Attacks Madara would've tanked without a scratch


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 9, 2014)

Sasuke never speedblitzed her.

Kaguya switches to gravity dimension, and bones him literally.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> *Fanboy Wank!*
> 
> Sasuke speedblitzed her while Naruto one shotted her with a few Rasenshuriken
> 
> The Same Attacks Madara would've tanked without a scratch




Ur a funny guy...real funny. 

Listen here chump, show me proof that Madara would have tanked anything that Naruto+Sasuke Currently can dish them ?


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> ummm NO ?!?!?
> 
> Not even close, Kaguya is much more powerful than Madara in any form. Your crazy to think otherwise



And you didn't get the thing at all


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> And you didn't get the thing at all





 ????

Ur a very ignorant fella huh


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> ????
> 
> Ur a very ignorant fella huh



I was making a joke about since Kaguya is using Madara's body, she's his female version


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Kakashi's balls have gotten pretty damn big apparently since he got both of them back from Obito.
> 
> Let's see how well he handles the King.
> 
> ...



Itachi gets stomped hard.

Base Kakashi canonically beats base Itachi. I.E. the only thing Itachi ever had on Kakashi was the MS.

With the MS, Kakashi could handle Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi- but Susanoo was a problem.

Now with both Kamui he stomps Itachi. Obito could murderstomp Itachi without trying, and Kakashi has the power Obito could accomplish that with. 
Madara with just PS destroys Itachi; Kakashi has that power too.

Kakashi absolutely rapes Itachi.

With this distance: Itachi gets fodderised with Kakashi's Kamui.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Spoiler*: __ 





Amusing !


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

JuicyG said:


> Amusing !





IchLiebe said:


> He didn't use speed. He used his swap jutsu.
> Kaguya dodged it easily.



You guys are trying to buy yourselves time


Kakashi has been above Itachi since he tussled with Obito in Cube World 

Even before this chapter that was the consensus

Stop trying to stall to defend Itachi


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> You guys are trying to buy yourselves time
> 
> 
> Kakashi has been above Itachi since he tussled with Obito in Cube World
> ...



I thought you talked with them about Madara


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> I thought you talked with them about Madara



Why are you doing this to me?


What have I done to you!


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Why are you doing this to me?
> 
> 
> What have I done to you!



Not saying Getsuga Tensho


----------



## Garcher (Aug 9, 2014)

BZ knows best

/Thread


----------



## LostSelf (Aug 9, 2014)

Thunder said:


> While in the box dimension Itachi contemplates why he doesn't solo anymore.



I haven't laugh so much in a good while .

OT: Kamui is faster than Totsuka, while Itachi throws a stab at Kakashi, it phases through him and Kakashi sends him to boxland with all of the Rin's pictures that Obito probably had there.


----------



## JuicyG (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> You guys are trying to buy yourselves time
> 
> 
> Kakashi has been above Itachi since he tussled with Obito in Cube World
> ...





Lmao I know kakashi can beat Itachi ...? who said otherwise


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> You guys are trying to buy yourselves time
> 
> 
> Kakashi has been above Itachi since he tussled with Obito in Cube World
> ...



He says to IchLiebe


----------



## Destiny Monarch (Aug 9, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> Naruto would destroy him.



No he wouldn't. Juudara with Three-Eyes can beat Naruto and Sasuke Mid-Diff. Together they would only win High-Diff. 





> He didn't blitz him. He got behind him. Bee was also so it wasn't a speed feat really. Itachi had only time to protect Sasuke so that kinda shows his speed in bad light. He couldn't erect susanoo that fast. And Kakashi was surpised by his handseal speed, and matched him evenly.



He blitzed him, going behind him without him being able to react to it is actually much more impressive then straight forward blitzing him without Bee reacting since he covered more distance. That does not change the fact that Itachi reacted to it, and no, Sasuke's reaction speed was superior to Kakashis at that point. Kakashi got *outmatched * in hand seal speed. 



> Naruto was not trying then. He was talking and just going through motions. We've seen a serious KCM Naruto and he would smash Itachi.



Same could be said for Itachi. 



> He THOUGHT like a hokage. As in village before clan. He was not as smart as them, only had priority's like them.And his plan for Sasuke's life failed at every turn.



Yes, he *thought * like a Hokage, in other words, he was as intelligent as a Hokage. How else can you interpret *thought * like a Hokage? And actually it didnt, everything went according to plan until Tobi came along. And even then, Itachi implanted Ametarasu into Sasuke.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No he wouldn't. Juudara with Three-Eyes can beat Naruto and Sasuke Mid-Diff. Together they would only win High-Diff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You ignored my shitty joke, i'm sad


----------



## Destiny Monarch (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> You ignored my shitty joke, i'm sad


----------



## Rain (Aug 9, 2014)

Well, honestly they are pretty similar now that Kakashi's got Susano'o, the only difference is that Itachi's Susano'o is completely invincible which can't be said for that of the 6th Hokage.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

Aikuro said:


> BZ knows best
> 
> /Thread



Taking evidence out of context doesn't help. It only strengthens the Kakashi side if this is what the Itachi side resorts to.


----------



## StickaStick (Aug 9, 2014)

Even if you took BZ's statement literally (lol) it would still fall short because BZ's knowledge is not infallible. Try asking him at the start of this battle if he could fathom anyone challenging him mom, or if Kakashi obtaining P-Susanoo is possible


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

The Format said:


> Even if you took BZ's statement literally (lol) it would still fall short because BZ's knowledge is not infallible. Try asking him at the start of this battle if he could fathom anyone challenging him mom, or if Kakashi obtaining P-Susanoo is possible



Not to mention that he didn't know what Susanoo actually was till Itachi used it... despite having witnessed the VotE battle.


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Not to mention that he didn't know what Susanoo actually was till Itachi used it... despite having witnessed the VotE battle.



Wasn't that White Zetsu that was surprised by Susano?


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Wasn't that White Zetsu that was surprised by Susano?



1

Doesn't sound like someone who knew of the jutsu before Itachi vs Sasuke.


----------



## KibaforHokage (Aug 9, 2014)

Hachibi94 said:


> Wasn't that White Zetsu that was surprised by Susano?



I think that was an error. First Black Zetsu asks what it was. and then he explains the weapons Itachi has. Or maybe Kishi didn't think that far ahead


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 9, 2014)

KibaforHokage said:


> I think that was an error. First Black Zetsu asks what it was. and then he explains the weapons Itachi has. *Or maybe Kishi didn't think that far ahead*



Hokage Kakashi made me realise he does think further ahead than we think.


----------



## Miyoshi (Aug 9, 2014)

*Unfortanately, Itachi never reached the level Kakashi has just achieved. I'm afraid he's a bit outclassed here.... 

*


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Aug 9, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> No he wouldn't. Juudara with Three-Eyes can beat Naruto and Sasuke Mid-Diff. Together they would only win High-Diff.


Other than giving him feats he didn't have as the Juubi Jinchuriki, how does Madara react to Naruto's speed, strength, and firepower? Naruto can hit him with Senpo: Cho Bijudama Rasenshuriken, Naruto can basically make the Tailed Beasts inside Madara go wild.


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

Can't we just leave madara out of this for one second?

It's not like he did much other than Meteors and IT


----------



## Trojan (Aug 9, 2014)

why the hell is this still going on. 
people seriously think itachi stands a chance?!


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 9, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Can't we just leave madara out of this for one second?
> 
> It's not like he did much other than Meteors and IT



Madara is Love, Madara is life


----------



## Ashi (Aug 9, 2014)

Hussain said:


> why the hell is still going on. sydcuk
> people seriously think itachi stands a chance?!



Itachi has a knack for leaving a legacy of skeet in anything he's involved in


----------



## Destiny Monarch (Aug 9, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Other than giving him feats he didn't have as the Juubi Jinchuriki, how does Madara react to Naruto's speed, strength, and firepower? Naruto can hit him with Senpo: Cho Bijudama Rasenshuriken, Naruto can basically make the Tailed Beasts inside Madara go wild.




We should not be going off topic. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Well its a fact that he can use them so........but if you wanna play that game then:

If you wanna take away that, he still has Mugen Tskoyomi. He has his Limbo clones take the attack for him and he can switch with his Limbo Clones at any time too basically cheat death. 

Madara can react to Naruto's speed, strength is not a problem and he can match Naruto with Firepower.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Aug 10, 2014)

Kakabito wins for obvious reasons.


----------



## Mercurial (Aug 10, 2014)

Why is this thread still open?


----------



## KibaforHokage (Aug 10, 2014)

Fools are still trying to argue that Kakashi wouldn't get slaughtered


----------



## Hachibi (Aug 10, 2014)

Itachi get solo'd and Kakashi get solo'd by Sasuke for revenge


----------



## Miyoshi (Aug 10, 2014)

*If there's one thing I know, it's that Itachi had the upper hand on Kakashi primarily because of his mangeyou sharingan abilities. Referring back to part 1.*


----------



## Dr. White (Aug 10, 2014)

Miyoshi said:


> *If there's one thing I know, it's that Itachi had the upper hand on Kakashi primarily because of his mangeyou sharingan abilities. Referring back to part 1.*



Itachi at 13 was portrayed skilled enough to beat people pt. 1 Kakashi shit himself over. I'm a fan of both Kakashi and Itachi, but saying shit like the above isn't necessarily true. Kakashi didn't even know about MS and was still hyping 13 year old Itachi in their encounter.


----------



## IchLiebe (Aug 10, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> *Itachi at 13 was portrayed skilled enough to beat people pt. 1 Kakashi shit himself over.* I'm a fan of both Kakashi and Itachi, but saying shit like the above isn't necessarily true. Kakashi didn't even know about MS and was still hyping 13 year old Itachi in their encounter.



When Itachi had MS. Kakashi knew about MS, just not that Itachi had it. And he still fought him on even ground. Kakashi only ever "shit" his pants on Orochimaru but was still going to fight him. And then at the beginning of part 2 Itachi shit his pants at Kakashi implying he had MS.


----------



## Miyoshi (Aug 10, 2014)

Dr. White said:


> Itachi at 13 was portrayed skilled enough to beat people pt. 1 Kakashi shit himself over. I'm a fan of both Kakashi and Itachi, but saying shit like the above isn't necessarily true. Kakashi didn't even know about MS and was still hyping 13 year old Itachi in their encounter.



*Kakashi also spoke highly of Zabuza. High level jounin and above needed an introduction.

He gave a great standing before falling victim to tsukiyomi. Mangekyou Sharingan is what really gave Itachi separation from Kakashi. Otherwise they're in the same ball park, Itachi still being the superior but only barely. That "barely"  that Itachi has over Kakashi could leave much room for match ups and strategy. 

(Ex. Sasuke vs Deidara / Orochimaru vs Hiruzen / Gai vs Kisame / Gaara vs his dad)

Base sharingan Kakashi vs base sharingan Itachi could go either way.

Hokage wisdom has nothing to do with power in battle... That's basically knowing how to resolve political and moral conflict. (Critical decision making). People always misinterpret that. 

It's the reason why Itachi was stated to have superior skill reading people. He know's how to read behavior and emotion better than almost anyone. Reason why his behavior and emotions were so controlled. *


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Aug 10, 2014)

Are we seriously saying Itachi can take Kakashi?

Kakashi who has Perfect Susanoo? Kakashi who has the power Obito had; the power Itachi didn't have the guts to challenge?


----------



## Nikushimi (Aug 10, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Other than giving him feats he didn't have as the Juubi Jinchuriki, how does Madara react to Naruto's speed, strength, and firepower? Naruto can hit him with Senpo: Cho Bijudama Rasenshuriken, Naruto can basically make the Tailed Beasts inside Madara go wild.



Or Madara just Limbo-spams Naruto to death like he was doing for a while there, which Sasuke's help was necessary to counter.

Nevermind Naruto isn't hitting shit with Madara's Onmyoton shield in the way.



Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Are we seriously saying Itachi can take Kakashi?
> 
> Kakashi who has Perfect Susanoo?



Yes.



> Kakashi who has the power Obito had; the power Itachi didn't have the guts to challenge?



Itachi had the guts to challenge guys much stronger than MS Obito.

Itachi is not someone who lacked the guts to do anything; he literally walked into a fight he knew was going to kill him and he was totally okay with it.

It's not exactly certain why he never challenged Obito but we can come up with a few pretty good reasons if we think about it--like the practical impossibility of cornering Obito in a fight and actually killing him so that he can't retreat and get backup from the rest of Akatsuki. The potential for retaliation against Sasuke for betraying the organization is also realistic, and knowing where Itachi's priorities lie he probably would have considered that.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 10, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Or Madara just Limbo-spams Naruto to death like he was doing for a while there, which Sasuke's help was necessary to counter.
> 
> Nevermind Naruto isn't hitting shit with Madara's Onmyoton shield in the way.



LOL. Naruto did just fine. He didn't know what it was, but knew something was there and was countering without Sasuke. And Naruto has Onmyouton.



> Yes.



So perfect susanoo isn't restricted?


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## Nikushimi (Aug 10, 2014)

IchLiebe said:


> LOL. Naruto did just fine. He didn't know what it was, but knew something was there and was countering without Sasuke.



IIRC there was a time when Sasuke threw his sword and stopped one of the Limbo Madara's from attacking Naruto. So it's not something Naruto could handle by himself, and this is reflected by the fact that both he and Sasuke had to split them off and each take half.



> And Naruto has Onmyouton.



Not on the level Madara and Obito had.



> So perfect susanoo isn't restricted?



Did I ever say it was?


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## Destiny Monarch (Aug 10, 2014)

Madara>Naruto, this is a widely accepted fact, but leave this fact to the Madara Vs Naruto threads guys.


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## IchLiebe (Aug 10, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> IIRC there was a time when Sasuke threw his sword and stopped one of the Limbo Madara's from attacking Naruto. So it's not something Naruto could handle by himself, and this is reflected by the fact that both he and Sasuke had to split them off and each take half.



Bullshit, he handled 6 without Sasuke's help at all.



> Not on the level Madara and Obito had.



Obito>Madara>Naruto. And it's not a big difference. Nothing shows Madara's as stronger. All he did was manipulate it better. What Naruto did to Kaguya did this chapter kills Madara.



> Did I ever say it was?



I made the same thread and it was locked because it was unbalanced. The only reason this thread wasn't was because AS though you restricted PS by restricting galactus. So if not, then this thread should be locked.


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## Chaos Hokage (Aug 16, 2014)

Kakashi (Infinite Tsukiyomi arc) would come out as the winner in a battle between him & Itachi. Kakashi was able to beat Obito (pre-Ten Tails host) who was stronger than Itachi.


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## Ashi (Aug 17, 2014)

Chaos Hokage said:


> Kakashi (Infinite Tsukiyomi arc) would come out as the winner in a battle between him & Itachi. Kakashi was able to beat Obito (pre-Ten Tails host) who was stronger than Itachi.



Ten Tails arc Kakashi would technically be stronger than prior susanoo Kakashi 

Seeing as he was exhausted from Kamui use


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## Hachibi (Aug 17, 2014)

TensaXZangetsu said:


> Ten Tails arc Kakashi would technically be stronger than prior susanoo Kakashi
> 
> Seeing as he was exhausted from Kamui use



Obviously, since when Sharingan-less Kakashi > Kamui Kakashi?


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 19, 2014)

Honestly, it's going to a coin toss so far because we don't know what Kakashi's Susano'o can do and both characters are essentially the same. It's always been a coin toss with these two and now that you have given Kakashi susano'o we don't have to restrict Itachi's Susano'o (in order to make it a fair fight).


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## Azula (Aug 19, 2014)

Kakashi can quite literally step on itachi and crush him


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 20, 2014)

War arc kakashi was already a bit stronger than itachi.

With this power up, it's a stomp on his side.


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## Alex Payne (Aug 20, 2014)

This thread became quite imbalanced


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## Trojan (Aug 20, 2014)

alex payne said:


> This thread became quite imbalanced



it was like this since the start.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 20, 2014)

alex payne said:


> This thread became quite imbalanced




*Spoiler*: __ 



Yeah, this most chapter really pushes it into Kakashi's favor by a huge margin. Before this you could make the argument that Kakashi's Susano'o was featless, but after what he did to Kaguya, no one short of Sasuke, Naruto, Madara and Kaguya are even worth mentioning.


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## Mercurial (Aug 20, 2014)

Please, close this insulting thread.


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## Azula (Aug 20, 2014)

O shit, RIP itachi


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## Lurko (Aug 20, 2014)

Itachi walks away knowing he can't win.


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## Sorin (Aug 20, 2014)

Kakashi's reaction when he sees Itachi


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## KibaforHokage (Aug 20, 2014)

But but... Itachi...solo's?


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## Crimson Flam3s (Aug 20, 2014)




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## joshhookway (Aug 21, 2014)

Itachi still wins with Tsukyomi. Kakashi has no counter.


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## Ashi (Aug 21, 2014)

Kamui Lightning Blade!!!!


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## JuicyG (Aug 21, 2014)

joshhookway said:


> Itachi still wins with Tsukyomi. Kakashi has no counter.





Fan Boy OP 


If thats the case Itachi solo's verse


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## Csdabest (Aug 21, 2014)

Itachi still spanks Kakashi outside of Perfect Susano-o. But totsuka GG could probably to the trick is Itachi can get around easy enough.

Itachi points a finger at Kakashi. Traps him in Genjutsu. Kakahsi breaks free only to find out he has been stabbed by Totsuka. Kakashi would kamui snipe a Bushin feint. And if Kakashi tries to phase. Im sure Genjutsu could put a hault to that. 

Like I said. If Kakashi only wins if he has Perfect Susano-o to overpower Itachi


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## Lurko (Aug 21, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Itachi still spanks Kakashi outside of Perfect Susano-o. But totsuka GG could probably to the trick is Itachi can get around easy enough.
> 
> Itachi points a finger at Kakashi. Traps him in Genjutsu. Kakahsi breaks free only to find out he has been stabbed by Totsuka. Kakashi would kamui snipe a Bushin feint. And if Kakashi tries to phase. Im sure Genjutsu could put a hault to that.
> 
> Like I said. If Kakashi only wins if he has Perfect Susano-o to overpower Itachi



Omg dude. ... Kakashi fought Obito to a standstill in a genjustu battle prior to getting both both Ms and Rs' s chakra, Itachi dies.


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## Prinz Porno (Aug 21, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Itachi still spanks Kakashi outside of Perfect Susano-o. But totsuka GG could probably to the trick is Itachi can get around easy enough.
> 
> Itachi points a finger at Kakashi. Traps him in Genjutsu. Kakahsi breaks free only to find out he has been stabbed by Totsuka. Kakashi would kamui snipe a Bushin feint. And if Kakashi tries to phase. Im sure Genjutsu could put a hault to that.
> 
> Like I said. If Kakashi only wins if he has Perfect Susano-o to overpower Itachi


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## StickaStick (Aug 21, 2014)

Csdabest said:


> Itachi still spanks Kakashi outside of Perfect Susano-o. But totsuka GG could probably to the trick is Itachi can get around easy enough.
> 
> Itachi points a finger at Kakashi. Traps him in Genjutsu. Kakahsi breaks free only to find out he has been stabbed by Totsuka. Kakashi would kamui snipe a Bushin feint. And if Kakashi tries to phase. Im sure Genjutsu could put a hault to that.
> 
> Like I said. If Kakashi only wins if he has Perfect Susano-o to overpower Itachi



Csdabest... like... what the fuck man. I never really took you as the trolling type but w/e.


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## lathia (Aug 21, 2014)

Leave poor Itachi-fans alone. You guys are cruel, and this should be closed.


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