# Big Mom vs Rayleigh and Oden



## Sabco (Dec 29, 2019)

The two right hand men of Roger and Whitebeard take on Big Mom



vs




Prime Rayleigh and Oden
Sane Big mom

who wins ?​

Reactions: Like 1


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## Geralt-Singh (Dec 29, 2019)

Rayleigh solos

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 29, 2019)

Rayleigh wrecks Big Meme even worse than King did.


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## Light D Lamperouge (Dec 29, 2019)

Prime Ray solo's. 

Ray vastly outclasses her in the haki and speed department. Ray, whilst rusty and not picking up his sword in decades could match the man who possesses a light df in cqc. 


He was fast enough to divert Kizaru's attack here without Kizaru noticing him at all, Indicated by the !!? marks here


Fights Kizaru in cqc without anyone gaining a particular edge, but manages to cut him and inflict damage on Kizaru

*Spoiler*: __ 










And this happened when the two clashed blades. It's the only logical conclusion based on the direction of the cut, the timing it was shown and that you can extend the length by using 

You don't need haki to intercept or deflect the attacks. WB did the same thing to Kizaru and it didn't do anything to him.


The cut on his cheek started below the sunglasses, and the flow of the blood was quite below his sunglasses


We know that when logia become solid they bleed immediately

Look at how far down the blood is flowing on solid Aokiji, immediately after becoming tangible.
Ray intercepts Kizaru, Kizaru becomes solid, two panels of him being solid, no cut, no blood flow.

*Spoiler*: __ 







No indication of blood until after the clash. 

To keep up with Kizaru in cqc one must possess extremely good coo 

Linlin's coo feats are almost nonexistent, and she was the honourary clown at the wedding, needing Dogtooth's help to find out which is the real Ruffy. 

Ray not only possess the type of haki that Ruffy implied was enough to harm Kaido 

*Spoiler*: __ 








Someone whose dura feats and hype exceed Linlin's 
Kaido taking a free fall from 10k meters


Linlin falling from a castle


Kaido takes an onslaught of G4 attacks, without any protection, and ends up being disappointed


Linlin leans forward putting her body-weight in use, uses hardening, and it still makes her arm rattle after only one G4 attack


The authorial intent is quite clear regarding their durability. If it is enough to hurt Kaido it is more than enough to hurt BM.

However, Ray also possesses the next level of haki, the imploding from within haki 

*Spoiler*: __ 








So Linlin's biggest tool, her durability is obsolete against Ray. Moreover, all of these are old Ray's feats, in his prime his stats were higher and thus he wins. Oden is not needed.

Reactions: Like 9


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 29, 2019)

Ray solos

or at the least - BM needs extreme diff for Ray
so Oden tips the scales into the duo favor easily


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## Gledania (Dec 29, 2019)

Duo win obviously


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Dec 29, 2019)

Rayleigh and Oden kill the fat meme

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Dec 29, 2019)

BM upper high-diff

Reactions: Like 6


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## Gledania (Dec 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> BM upper high-diff



Yeah ...



but no


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## TheWiggian (Dec 29, 2019)

Ray solos, Oden solos. Close the thread.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Steven (Dec 29, 2019)

Gledania said:


> Yeah ...
> 
> 
> 
> but no


Loden is a oneshot


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## blueice12 (Dec 29, 2019)

They take out their pokeballs and Big Mom use fear they run away
The two attempt to use Chad mode but Big Mom brings out her 
Chad
Lord Mobile


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## Gledania (Dec 29, 2019)

Acno said:


> Loden is a oneshot


the one shot gave Kaido his scar. A pretty huge one.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 29, 2019)

Both are Admiral Level max. They win Middle end of High Difficulty. They both lose a part of their body before the fight is over though. Linlin isn't the type of person you fight or cross and not lose something if shes serious.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Dec 30, 2019)

Any of them solo. Oden was strong enough to leave a giant scar on Kaido's body,so for sure he can wound BM. Ray is the master of advanced haki,while novice Luffy will be able to damage Kaido (and BM) near the end of Wano arc. And we don't even know circumstances of Oden vs Kaido,Oden might have been posioned or weakened by Orochi.


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## convict (Dec 30, 2019)

Ray = Meme > Eiichero, Eiichero is strong enough to tango so the team wins comfortably


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

convict said:


> Ray = Meme > Eiichero, Eiichero is strong enough to tango so the team wins comfortably


She Mid diffs Ray.


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## Corax (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> She Mid diffs Ray.


She will be defeated by 3 SN soon. Very soon. Funny thing that Ray was introduced during SN beatdown arc.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> She will be defeated by 3 SN soon. Very soon. Funny thing that Ray was introduced during SN beatdown arc.


And Sakazuki is gonna get beat up by Sabo who already put a beating on Fuji and Greenbull. Additionally, Kizaru is gonna get beat up by Sanji

So Shes gonna go down to 3 future Yonko. So whats worse losing against 1 person vs losing against 3? 

Underlings will never be on the level of Great Pirates. Oda continues to show that by each chapter that passes in this flashback. He continues to shit on Rays portrayal to show how he is below the great pirates.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> And Sakazuki is gonna get beat up by Sabo who already put a beating on Fuji and Greenbull. Additionally, Kizaru is gonna get beat up by Sanji
> 
> So Shes gonna go down to 3 future Yonko. So whats worse losing against 1 person vs losing against 3?
> 
> Underlings will never be on the level of Great Pirates. Oda continues to show that by each chapter that passes in this flashback. He continues to shit on Rays portrayal to show how he is below the great pirates.


She will be defeated by their Wano versions. 200 or so chapters before EOS. EOS SH will be massively stronger than Wano SN.


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## Luke (Dec 30, 2019)

The Big One goes down.


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## Amol (Dec 30, 2019)

Prime Ray is stronger than Big Mom though by not much. He can win by himself. 
With Oden there it is quite easy win.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> She Mid diffs Ray.


 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Sakazuki is gonna get beat up by Sabo


 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Kizaru is gonna get beat up by Sanji


Personally doubt Sanji will fight an Admiral.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

Amol said:


> Prime Ray is stronger than Big Mom though by not much. He can win by himself.
> With Oden there it is quite easy win.


What portryal does Prime Ray have that puts him above Linlin? The same Ray put side by side by Scopper Gaban? His recent portryal by Oda is actually pretty shitty. No underling is above a great pirate. If Roger is fighting the stongest dudes, who the heck is Ray fighting to even get to Great Pirate Level? In Rocks flashback, guess who was mentioned? Roger,Xebec, Linlin,Newgate,Shiki,Kaido,John, and Garp. Ray is not mentioned meaning that he is of less importance and below all those people mentioned bar maybe captain John who we don't know his Prime level strength. 

Seriously though what feats or portryal does Ray have that puts him above a Yonko. If you're going to mention that Garp "Legends" statement, that statement can be taken with a grain of salt. If Any of the people I mentioned above were in that scence or showed themselves, Garp would say the same thing about them. Also, it's more than power level even though power level does have something to do with it. It's more about those who remember how the seas were back in the day. Just like what Whitebeard said to Shanks during their meeting. 

Ray has never been put on a pedestral or called a Great Pirate. The people who have been called Great Pirates are Roger, Newgate, and Linlin. Ray is for sure storng but nothing and I mean nothing even implies that his prime self is above a Yonko in any capacity. Those who serve or are underlings will never be as strong as those who lead if they are being compared to other leaders relative and comparable to that underlings Captain.

Reactions: Like 7


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## MO (Dec 30, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Prime Ray solo's.
> 
> Ray vastly outclasses her in the haki and speed department. Ray, whilst rusty and not picking up his sword in decades could match the man who possesses a light df in cqc.
> 
> ...


You didn't prove anything with this other than he can harm her. How does his fight with kizaru prove he vastly outclass her in speed and haki? Ray may have some advantage over CoO  but where do you get his outclasses her in overall haki? And speed for that matter?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Amol (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> What portryal does Prime Ray have that puts him above Linlin? The same Ray put side by side by Scopper Gaban? His recent portryal by Oda is actually pretty shitty. No underling is above a great pirate. If Roger is fighting the stongest dudes, who the heck is Ray fighting to even get to Great Pirate Level? In Rocks flashback, guess who was mentioned? Roger,Xebec, Linlin,Newgate,Shiki,Kaido,John, and Garp. Ray is not mentioned meaning that he is of less importance and below all those people mentioned bar maybe captain John who we don't know his Prime level strength.
> 
> Seriously though what feats or portryal does Ray have that puts him above a Yonko. If you're going to mention that Garp "Legends" statement, that statement can be taken with a grain of salt. If Any of the people I mentioned above were in that scence or showed themselves, Garp would say the same thing about them. Also, it's more than power level even though power level does have something to do with it. It's more about those who remember how the seas were back in the day. Just like what Whitebeard said to Shanks during their meeting.
> 
> Ray has never been put on a pedestral or called a Great Pirate. The people who have been called Great Pirates are Roger, Newgate, and Linlin. Ray is for sure storng but nothing and I mean nothing even implies that his prime self is above a Yonko in any capacity. Those who serve or are underlings will never be as strong as those who lead if they are being compared to other leaders relative and comparable to that underlings Captain.


Rayleigh is not underling of Roger. He is Roger's partner. Roger explicitly called him that in manga. He has same relationship with Roger that Zoro has with Luffy. 
Should I remind you how many times people in manga had confused Zoro as Captain? 
Same thing here.
Oda will never write fight between Luffy and Zoro where it is not at least a high diff one. Same goes for Roger and Rayleigh. If Roger needs high diff for Rayleigh then Big Mom mid diffing Rayleigh is preposterous. 
And 'Great Pirate' is not some title. You just made that up. It tells you nothing. 
Old out of shape Rayleigh matched with an Admiral which is much better feat than anything Big Mom has shown in entire manga. 
I know you don't believe it but Pirate King is different level. Big Mom is peer of Old sick WB not off Primebeard so whole underling argument falls apart too. You just have lot of headcanons.

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## MO (Dec 30, 2019)

Amol said:


> Old out of shape Rayleigh matched with an Admiral which is much better feat than anything Big Mom has shown in entire manga.


Big Mom matched kaido who is the strongest character alive and fought for like a whole day. How does clashing with an admiral and painting after minutes better?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bash24 (Dec 30, 2019)

Only Roger can solo but not meme lol


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## Amol (Dec 30, 2019)

MO said:


> Big Mom matched kaido who is the strongest character alive and fought for like a whole day. How does clashing with an admiral and painting after minutes better?


Difference being Big Mom is in her Prime and being active while Rayleigh was a Swordsman who hadn't even touched his sword for decades. 
Think of retired older boxer matching performance of active and comparatively younger boxer. 
Big Mom and Kaido fight wasn't exactly a death match either. They probably were flirting. Their lack of injuries makes it clear. 
Both Garp and Kizaru thought taking on Rayleigh before WB was a mistake as there was a chance of Admiral dying or at least getting maimed in process. That is lot of hype for a guy who is retired and spent decades on drinking and fucking instead of fighting. 
Much better than anything Big Mom had. 
P. S. : Panting means nothing. Zoro panted heavily against Pica and we know how that fight went. 
Kizaru is the fastest character in verse. Rayleigh was retired. It takes time to get used to move on such speeds. Kizaru would have killed Rayleigh after 'panting'(that lasted for a single panel) if Rayleigh wasn't capable of putting fight anymore. Only reason he let go fight was because Kizaru clearly understood threat level of Rayleigh and knew that he can't defeat(if that) without losing a limb in process.

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## Daisuke Jigen (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> His recent portryal by Oda is actually pretty shitty.


Standing next to Scopper is shitty portrayal? What about Big Meme getting humiliated by the likes of the Sunny Team, King, and Queen?

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## GreenBull956 (Dec 30, 2019)

Oden could already put the biggest scar in Manga on someone with better Durability , and overall just stronger , and Kaido already had his Dragon DF too

Rayleigh can solo this , adding Oden will just screw Big Mom , Enma will predate her 


RossellaFiamingo said:


> Sabo who already put a beating on Fuji and Greenbull.


Greenbull


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## MO (Dec 30, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Kizaru moves at light speed, matching up to him in cqc thus means one has ls reactions, and incredible speed. Linlin couldn't catch the SH in a footrace, was blitzed by Brook, failed to hit an old man and exhausted df-less Ruffy, couldn't react to King etc etc
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


I have already stated he has an advantage over CoO. Where do you get he is better overall? We haven't seen enough to conclude his haki is much better.

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## GreenBull956 (Dec 30, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Kizaru moves at light speed, matching up to him in cqc thus means one has ls reactions, and incredible speed. Linlin couldn't catch the SH in a footrace, was blitzed by Brook, failed to hit an old man and exhausted df-less Ruffy, couldn't react to King etc etc
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...


The last panel , is that from a chapter with Hyogoro ? i thought Oda didn't blacken Armament pre skip

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## Tenma (Dec 30, 2019)

We know Oden can probably damage Big Mom based on him maiming Kaido. And it is implied Ray's mastered CoA is the key to damaging those tanks

With the kind of portrayal of Rocks' legacy have received I'm starting to question whether Ray can solo BM but together the swordsmen win without a doubt.


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## Yuji (Dec 30, 2019)

3 days and nights... Rayleigh couldn't even solo teenage Marco let alone prime Charlotte Linlin

I want to believe this is an extreme diff fight but the recent chapters have dehyped Rayleigh/Oden somewhat. Oden particularly is not in Big Mom's league, he's liable to get the queen treatment given the way he was overpowered by Roger and stood in awe. He wasn't down, but the portrayal was there, especially when we see the real alphas clash just moments later.

Big Mom is from this cloth, not the type to stalemate one of the weakest versions of Whitebeard's crew.

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## Light D Lamperouge (Dec 30, 2019)

MO said:


> Where do you get he is better overall?


From the manga. 




GreenBull956 said:


> The last panel , is that from a chapter with Hyogoro ? i thought Oda didn't blacken Armament pre skip


Yeah, chapter 947, flashback to the Ray thing, Oda added hardening then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## MO (Dec 30, 2019)

Amol said:


> Difference being Big Mom is in her Prime and being active while Rayleigh was a Swordsman who hadn't even touched his sword for decades.
> Think of retired older boxer matching performance of active and comparatively younger boxer.
> Big Mom and Kaido fight wasn't exactly a death match either. They probably were flirting. Their lack of injuries makes it clear.
> Both Garp and Kizaru thought taking on Rayleigh before WB was a mistake as there was a chance of Admiral dying or at least getting maimed in process. That is lot of hype for a guy who is retired and spent decades on drinking and fucking instead of fighting.


That doesn't mean it's a better feat. Big Mom is 68 herself and has been stated in to be from the old gen. Yeah she is active but she's old. The analogy doesn't work either cause Rayleigh wasn't matching the performance of big mom or kizaru or who ever the younger boxer is, cause he got tired after a minutes.



Light D Lamperouge said:


> From the manga.


There is nothing in the manga that shows Rayleigh CoC and CoA is better than linlins. We don't even know the full capabilities of big mom's haki so you can conclude Rayleigh is vastly superior.

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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

Sabco said:


> The two right hand men of Roger and Whitebeard take on Big Mom
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BM high diffs Ray but Ray and Oden high Diff BM!

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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

Light D Lamperouge said:


> Ray has on panel feats of two versions of advanced coa, Linlin has zero. Based on what we know, Ray's coa>>>Linlin's.
> 
> 
> Ray's coc was hyped by Oda, comparing it to Shanks'. And that was old Ray.


You have all the flashbacks and none put Ray at PK level, will you stop the equal partner nonsense!

Yet it puts Scoper on the general level of Ray!

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## MO (Dec 30, 2019)

MO said:


> We don't even know the full capabilities of big mom's haki so you can conclude Rayleigh is vastly superior





Light D Lamperouge said:


> Ray has on panel feats of two versions of advanced coa, Linlin has zero. Based on what we know, Ray's coa>>>Linlin's.
> 
> 
> Ray's coc was hyped by Oda, comparing it to Shanks'. And that was old Ray.


Also Big Mom CoC(along with her scream) cause ceaser rockets to explode.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

MO said:


> Also Big Mom CoC(along with her scream) cause ceaser rockets to explode.


I don't think you can win this, even if BM fights kaido to extreme diff some will still wank Zoro, this is what it is, this has nothing to do with Ray!

BM fought Kaido the 1vs1 champion, Ray has yet to be put next to Roger  but we saw Scoper.

Pro tip as much as I like Ray, he is like current Zoro nowhere near Roger/ Luffy!


I digress @MO good luck

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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

Amol said:


> Rayleigh is not underling of Roger. He is Roger's partner. Roger explicitly called him that in manga. He has same relationship with Roger that Zoro has with Luffy.
> Should I remind you how many times people in manga had confused Zoro as Captain?
> Same thing here.
> Oda will never write fight between Luffy and Zoro where it is not at least a high diff one. Same goes for Roger and Rayleigh. If Roger needs high diff for Rayleigh then Big Mom mid diffing Rayleigh is preposterous.
> ...



Great Pirate is a Title. Roger, Newgate and Linlin have been introduced as Great Pirates.










Roger invented the title of Pirate King. Pirate King is about accomplishments not about strength. Oda has shown Ray many times and has yet to give him this type of portrayal. He is Roger's Partner yet he is still and underling. Being someones friend and being trusted does not mean he isn't an underling. Roger is the Captain. What Roger says, goes. Roger fights the strongest people. Roger is the one portrayed alongside other "great pirates" not Ray. Ray is portryaed alongside the likes of Oden and Scopper Gabban. 

You accuse me of headcanon yet you're the one with headcanon. Old Out of Shape Ray was huffing and puffing after a 30 second clash with Kizaru. BM clashed with Kaido for 3 days. Baby shook Queen. She Spilts the heavens when she clashes with other "Great Pirates". None of Rays feats or portrayal even implies that he is on Yonko level. Like I said, logic and basic comprehension dictates that Underlings will always be below the people the underlings leader is portrayed next to.

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## Steven (Dec 30, 2019)

BM: Can fight against the WSC without a problem,has with Kaido the best Dura and can do this

And have Homies,which cannot be harmed.

Yeah,Ray,let alone Loden can win this

Reactions: Like 5


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## Kinjin (Dec 30, 2019)

Acno said:


> And have Homies,which cannot be harmed.


Brook hurt Promotheus, one of BM's main homies who had never been injured before.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> Brook hurt Promotheus, one of BM's main homies who had never been injured before.


Because he has soul powers. No one else's abilities deals with the soul or is in that frequency.

Conquerors Haki on an advanced level might do so but she said that they had never been hurt until then. She's had both since she was 5. She fought in the Rocks Pirates and must have fought formidable people yet, nothing hurt the homies. Until shown otherwise, Only soul related abilities can hurt her homies.


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## Corax (Dec 30, 2019)

RossellaFiamingo said:


> Because he has soul powers. No one else's abilities deals with the soul or is in that frequency.
> 
> Conquerors Haki on an advanced level might do so but she said that they had never been hurt until then. She's had both since she was 5. She fought in the Rocks Pirates and must have fought formidable people yet, nothing hurt the homies. Until shown otherwise, Only soul related abilities can hurt her homies.


Not only. Jinbei extinguished Prometheus.


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## RossellaFiamingo (Dec 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> Not only. Jinbei extinguished Prometheus.


I forgot to mention natural weaknesses but once Prometheus got big, he couldn't do anything about extinguishing him. The only way to beat homies is to take advantage of whatever personality quirk they picked up from Linlin.(PLOT)


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## Admiral Ryokugyu (Dec 30, 2019)

Idiotic thread.

Rayleigh and Oden wreck.

Add The Sweet Generals to Big Mom's side at least.


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## Sabco (Dec 30, 2019)

Admiral Ryokugyu said:


> Idiotic thread.
> 
> Rayleigh and Oden wreck.
> 
> Add The Sweet Generals to Big Mom's side at least.



Give Big Mom her commanders ?

Is Big Mom that weak against Oden and Rayleigh combo ?

hmm. i think i overestimated Meme. i thought her Homies are invincible


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2019)

Kinjin said:


> Brook hurt Promotheus, one of BM's main homies who had never been injured before.


Due to his DF


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## Sabco (Dec 30, 2019)

Acno said:


> And have Homies,which cannot be harmed.



only Prometheus showed intangibility ( against non advanced CoA )


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## Ruse (Dec 30, 2019)

Not sure Ray can beat Big Mom but I think he’s in the same ballpark, Oden can make up whatever difference we know he’s at least capable of harming someone with similar durability.


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## Beast (Dec 30, 2019)

So, either people believe Garp and Roger Double teamed Rox, WB, BM, Kaidou and Shiki, the key person being BM or Ray AND Scoppper helped take them down.. pick one side. 


BM gets raped in this match up for a change.


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## ho11ow (Dec 30, 2019)

BM get raped in bed

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> BM gets raped in this match up for a change.


No male has any chance, WB and Roger said no thank you, BM does the raping boy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draco Bolton (Dec 30, 2019)

Roger trashed Oden low diff and Roger>>>Rayleigh (Roger is worried Oden can hurt Rayleigh. And Roger destroy Oden).

Roger is a swordman confirmed.

WSS Mihawk>Roger (and we can conclude EOS Zoro>Roger).

Mihawk is stalled by bored Napoleon as the canon indicates



Napoleon solo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

Draco Bolton said:


> Roger trashed Oden low diff and Roger>>>Rayleigh (Roger is worried Oden can hurt Rayleigh. And Roger destroy Oden).
> 
> Roger is a swordman confirmed.
> 
> ...


That is my panel sorry I have the copyright on it!


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## Richard Lionheart (Dec 30, 2019)

Big Mom will not be able to defeat them. Rayleigh and Oden are on par with a marine admiral each.

Prime Ray and Oden may even be a bit stronger than that.


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## Beast (Dec 30, 2019)

Ray> BM 

How else would Roger and Garp beat Rox and WB, if they had to worrry about BM


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Ray> BM


No,just no

Reactions: Like 1


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## El Hermano (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Ray> BM
> 
> How else would Roger and Garp beat Rox and WB, if they had to worrry about BM


Well, that's a bold assumption, considering the fact we know near to nothing about the details of the battle and that there were several other prominent members in Rocks' crew. In addition to that, you could see the young Yonko alongside Rocks directly facing Roger and Garp. Yes, I am aware this might have been just a meaningless depiction, then again, it's the currently the only official depiction of the battle. And as stated, said Yonko were significantly weaker at the time, yet to reach their prime.

Meanwhile, current Big Mom survived fighting Kaido for at least an entire night and seemed to survive it unscathed. Let's not forgot he's currently the strongest creature in the world and most likely at his prime/at the very least significantly stronger than he used to be.

That being said, I don't think it'll be an easy fight for Big Mom, by any means.


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 30, 2019)

Corax said:


> Any of them solo. Oden was strong enough to leave a giant scar on Kaido's body,so for sure he can wound BM. Ray is the master of advanced haki,while novice Luffy will be able to damage Kaido (and BM) near the end of Wano arc. And we don't even know circumstances of Oden vs Kaido,Oden might have been posioned or weakened by Orochi.



LOL BM is way more durable than Kaidou.



Amol said:


> Difference being Big Mom is in her Prime



What?????


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## Sabco (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Ray> BM
> 
> How else would Roger and Garp beat Rox and WB, if they had to worrry about BM



Ray cant be above her, BM's homies are invincible according to some



Zuhaitz said:


> LOL BM is way more durable than Kaidou.



no she does not

- BM uses CoA to block a single Kong Gun
- Kaido eats a barrage of G4 attacks unprotected while half drunk

- Zeus goes to save BM from the fall of her castle
- Kaido falls from 10,000m unscathed and only got a headache

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## Ren. (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Ray> BM
> 
> How else would Roger and Garp beat Rox and WB, if they had to worrry about BM


Ray was not present!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 30, 2019)

Sabco said:


> no she does not
> 
> - BM uses CoA to block a single Kong Gun
> - Kaido eats a barrage of G4 attacks unprotected while half drunk
> ...




BM has never been injured, never, not by Kaidou, not by Roger, not by Rey, not by WB, never.

Kaidou on the other hand...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flame (Dec 30, 2019)

Screw OP for making the results hidden. I want to see who those 4 people who voted 4 BM are  



El Hermano said:


> Well, that's a bold assumption, considering the fact we know near to nothing about the details of the battle and that there were several other prominent members in Rocks' crew. In addition to that, you could see the young Yonko alongside Rocks directly facing Roger and Garp. Yes, I am aware this might have been just a meaningless depiction, then again, it's the currently the only official depiction of the battle. And as stated, said Yonko were significantly weaker at the time, yet to reach their prime.
> 
> Meanwhile, current Big Mom survived fighting Kaido for at least an entire night and seemed to survive it unscathed. Let's not forgot he's currently the strongest creature in the world and most likely at his prime/at the very least significantly stronger than he used to be.
> 
> That being said, I don't think it'll be an easy fight for Big Mom, by any means.


Shut up. Ray > BM and you know it


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## Gledania (Dec 30, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> BM has never been injured, never, not by Kaidou, not by Roger, not by Rey, not by WB, never.
> 
> Kaidou on the other hand...



she never met oden. Lucky for her


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 30, 2019)

Gledania said:


> she never met oden. Lucky for her


No, she just met Roger, who low diffed Oden.


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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Yo im telling you the bm disrespect is still paramount???


Big mom wins. Mid diff. HIGH DIFF AT MOST. Nobody here can a pierce big moms hide. And 2 i doubt ray or oden are lightning. And fire proof.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sabco (Dec 30, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> BM has never been injured, never, not by Kaidou, not by Roger, not by Rey, not by WB, never.
> 
> Kaidou on the other hand...



How do you know BM wasn't injured ?? because she has no scars ? WB beat Akainu so hard but and Akainu showed up one weak later with no scars chasing BB. you can still be damaged seriously without being scarred

You dumb or something ? Kaido doesn't even need Haki to tank G4 attacks while BM needs CoA against one KG... Kaido's durability is the best in entire series. BM is second to him


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## Gledania (Dec 30, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, she just met Roger,


And ?


Zuhaitz said:


> who low diffed Oden.



No he didn't...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 30, 2019)

Sabco said:


> How do you know BM wasn't injured ?? because she has no scars ? WB beat Akainu so hard but and Akainu showed up one weak later with no scars chasing BB.
> 
> You dumb or something ? Kaido doesn't even need Haki to tank G4 attacks while BM needs CoA against one KG... Kaido's durability is the best in entire series. BM is second to him


How do you know Kaidou didn't use Haki? Because his skin wasn't black? WB beat Akainu with invisible haki.

You dumb. BM is the only known top tier without a single scar. And the only with the hype of never being injured.



Gledania said:


> And ?
> 
> 
> No he didn't...


And Roger had to steal her poneglyph and run.
She has fought WB, Garp and Kaidou at very least, probably Rey, and still not a single scar and her hype of being injured by anyone.


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## Gledania (Dec 30, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> And Roger had to steal her poneglyph and run.



And ???



Zuhaitz said:


> She has fought WB, Garp and Kaidou at very least, probably Rey, and still not a single scar and her hype of being injured by anyone.



Said by who ? Her crew ?

Katakuri is known for never being on his back ... guess what we found in the end ?

Roger valley incident was mostly forgotten. She might have gotten injuries when defeated back then and hide the truth just like kata.

and Kaido was hyped as never getting a scar by anyone till he met oden ...

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## Sabco (Dec 30, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> How do you know Kaidou didn't use Haki? Because his skin wasn't black? WB beat Akainu with invisible haki.
> 
> You dumb. BM is the only known top tier without a single scar. And the only with the hype of never being injured.



cladding Haki wasn't a thing at all pre TS. Kaido was sleeping on the ground watching himself getting nuked by a barrage of G4 attacks without trying to even block with his hand like Big Mom, and when he tried to jump from sky island he was going for suicide.. why should he use CoA ????. Kaido and BM are on the same level, but you must be delusional and lack reading skills to think BM has way better durability.


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## Dunno (Dec 30, 2019)

What is this thread? Ray mid diffs alone.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Fujitora (Dec 30, 2019)

TheWiggian said:


> Ray solos, Oden solos. Close the thread.


Stay salty from chapter 952 bro, Ray isn’t soloing big mom and neither is oden but together they win sure.

Reactions: Like 1


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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Show me a panel where big mom was ever injured. In a battle. Pull it up. Show me big mom taking damage. Pull it TF UP. You cant. However i can show you oden being sent flying with one hit from roger. And him and ray are taking bm the only person in the manga were never seen take damage? Yeah no

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## Dunno (Dec 30, 2019)

Neko White said:


> Show me a panel where big mom was ever injured. In a battle. Pull it up. Show me big mom taking damage. Pull it TF UP. You cant. However i can show you oden being sent flying with one hit from roger. And him and ray are taking bm the only person in the manga were never seen take damage? Yeah no

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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

@Light D Lamperouge you can give me a tier specialists rating all you like but there has NEVER EVER been the case that yonko commanders are on par with the yonko or captain. Never. Bm fought kaido for 2 days. The same kaido that said he'd kill her on sight. We fail to mention that bm did this after being locked in seastone. But whatever. The fact that big mom has never taken battle damage per canon. The fact that neither oden or ray are fire and lightning proof. The fact that they have no way of dealing with Prometheus or zeus. The fact that big mom can indeed fly. The fact that big mom boasts more physical strength than both of them combined until we see something new on panel. Hell the roger pirates fought to stalemate with wb pirates.. Which constituted of whitebeard , teenagers, and oden.... And still not a single person has ever shown me bm being damaged in battle. Of course ray is a threat and garp n others leave him alone. In garps case its most likely out of respect. Nd ray would murk so many fodders that itll be a risk. But him soloing bm then why would roger the same man who killed squards crewmates ever  do a snatch and steal from big mom if they could have just taken it by force if Rayleigh is as powerful as big mom according to yall. You make no sense

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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


>


Hahahahahahahahahaha that's damage? Cmom son you know that's?bs as well as i. So a yonko commander in queen did his best and jumped on a non haki using. Non expextant big mom. The same who had no idea who she was or how to use her strength. And the result was big mom coming to her senses and taking a fucking nap cuz she knew that queen and the rest of them were EASY WORk. She didn't look hurt. Worried. Or scared. The best attack from yco 2nd commander at most gave her a slight headache when she was mist vulnerable and that's THE BEST HE COULD DO AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO SAY THAT ANOTHER ON THIS KIND OF LEVEL COULD THEN BEAT BM OR IN RAYS CASE SOLO HER?!? How


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## Steven (Dec 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> What is this thread? Ray mid diffs alone.


Topkek


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## Furinji Saiga (Dec 30, 2019)

This is a mismatch.

Im not sure where to place Oden, I would hazard a guess he close to a top tier, or at least much closer to it then a top Yonko commander.

Rayleigh in his prime is definitely one of the strongest known characters, a monster and a legend per Garp's own words. A fight between him and Big Mom would be close, though I give him a slight edge( just a guess)

Adding Oden on top( a dude known to have cut Kaido) free reign to attack her is just too much for her. 
The swordsman duo take it around medium  difficulty.

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## Dunno (Dec 30, 2019)

Neko White said:


> Hahahahahahahahahaha that's damage? Cmom son you know that's?bs as well as i. So a yonko commander in queen did his best and jumped on a non haki using. Non expextant big mom. The same who had no idea who she was or how to use her strength. And the result was big mom coming to her senses and taking a fucking nap cuz she knew that queen and the rest of them were EASY WORk. She didn't look hurt. Worried. Or scared. The best attack from yco 2nd commander at most gave her a slight headache when she was mist vulnerable and that's THE BEST HE COULD DO AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO SAY THAT ANOTHER ON THIS KIND OF LEVEL COULD THEN BEAT BM OR IN RAYS CASE SOLO HER?!? How


Seems like you need to pay more attention to the manga while reading it. She took damage, clear as day. Now how about you stop spouting lies?

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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Seems like you need to pay more attention to the manga while reading it. She took damage, clear as day. Now how about you stop spouting lies?


Where's the lie? I said at most all she got was a headache after an all out hit from a yonko commander. When she had no memory of who she was and how to use her powers. After the attack she said my head hurts. Noticed queen who immediately said "were dead her whole mood changed"  then she took a fucking nap. Only one lying is yall. 

You FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE that bm was nerfed bad here. No haki art all no df just ger base strength. Her BASE was enough to incapacitate queen in two blows. Two. At base with no memory. No battle strategy. Just pure base feats and she wrecked queen. Nd most he could do after coming around is give her a headache? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA and shes going to lose when she's at full power when nerfed. No memory or access to her powers she baby shaked a commander. YALL JUST NEED TO SAY YOU HATE BIG MOM then your downplay wouldn't need further explanation


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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Big moms first defeat after gods valley came from luffy and we all know that morgans souped that up. Kaido had taken how many L's? 18? Your beloved wb took how many l's? Oh right haha he's dead after his biggest L. Shanks... Probably got those scars after a win. Right? Yeah lets go with that. Bm. Undisputed record until the recent lie in the media. War monger kaido freaked out when bm shows up. Keep her out at all costs. Yet shes talking l's to who? Getting soloed by who? If zoro had big moms feats and record yall would say he could beat roger today.. You dont LIKE BIG MOM thats why you downplay her. Which us fine but say that


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## Dunno (Dec 30, 2019)

Neko White said:


> Where's the lie? I said at most all she got was a headache after an all out hit from a yonko commander. When she had no memory of who she was and how to use her powers. After the attack she said my head hurts. Noticed queen who immediately said "were dead her whole mood changed"  then she took a fucking nap. Only one lying is yall.
> 
> You FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE that bm was nerfed bad here. No haki art all no df just ger base strength. Her BASE was enough to incapacitate queen in two blows. Two. At base with no memory. No battle strategy. Just pure base feats and she wrecked queen. Nd most he could do after coming around is give her a headache? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA and shes going to lose when she's at full power when nerfed. No memory or access to her powers she baby shaked a commander. YALL JUST NEED TO SAY YOU HATE BIG MOM then your downplay wouldn't need further explanation


You claim that it's canon that BM has never been damaged in a fight. This is demonstrably false.


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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

manga: roger kills people. (Squards crew) 
Manga: that same roger himself snuck. I repeat snuck into bm territory to steal the etching. Avoiding direct battle w big mom

Y'all: raylegh. Who was there and on tje crew the whole time can solo big mom. 


Me: HOW SWAY

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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> You claim that it's canon that BM has never been damaged in a fight. This is demonstrably false.


SHE HASN'T BEEN.  Sorry if i don't count a "headache" as damage dog. Nd how do i know that headache didn't come from her having fallen into the sea ending up on shore and having all get memories coming back. Big mom never has been damaged in battle. O lin got a headache. Oooooh wow. Scathing. Also that was o lin if we're being semantic-al about it


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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Dunno said:


> You claim that it's canon that BM has never been damaged in a fight. This is demonstrably false.


Yall can just say you dont like bm. But the downplay kills me. Its rampant in narutoforums. Nd oda has done everything even told you yo shes a BEAST ND still not good enuff


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## Fel1x (Dec 30, 2019)

to people that say Ray solos:

ok, if Roger's FM>BM, why Roger decided to ninja steal BM's poneglyph? someone whose FM can beat BM, should low-mid diff her.

Why don't he just slay her long time ago?

my answer is : because fuck you, all Yonko are on the same level, Yonko can kill another one with only extreme diff, no lower, while Yonko's FM just sits still as a good boy.

You can fap over some Oden or Ray shit as long as you want, but the truth will always be the same : *FMs can't fight Yonko. *not even Beckman or Ray

But, whatever, guys you can hate her all the way till the end

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## nmwn93 (Dec 30, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> to people that say Ray solos:
> 
> ok, if Roger's FM>BM, why Roger decided to ninja steal BM's poneglyph? someone whose FM can beat BM, should low-mid diff her.
> 
> ...


Exactly

Like it makes no sense. His fm could kill her nd youre sneaking around..? Kaido back then was not on bm level (back in their rox days) he was an apprentice bm had already long been a captain her w/ strusen. Nd as sengoku said they both are vastly more than what they were and 2 guys in ray and oden whk werent on the level of beating her when she was weaker back in the day are beating her now that she's more Powerful. HOW???!


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## Fel1x (Dec 30, 2019)

Neko White said:


> Like it makes no sense. His fm could kill her nd youre sneaking around..? Kaido back then was not on bm level (back in their rox days) he was an apprentice bm had already long been a captain her w/ strusen. Nd as sengoku said they both are vastly more than what they were and 2 guys in ray and oden whk werent on the level of beating her when she was weaker back in the day are beating her now that she's more Powerful. HOW???!


noone wants to mess with BM. some people can fight her, but noone wants because it will be either their way to the grave or stalemate because of her durability.

Roger vs BM/Kaido vs BM/WB vs BM: I can see only a stalemate

Roger's choice was wise, why even fight her? he knows he can't defeat her. the only way to get her poneglyph is to steal it. by stealing I mean stealth steal, because when she knows you are here, you can't steal it (fuck SH's plotshield though)


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## Beast (Dec 30, 2019)

Oda is just bad with his consistency, Roger and his crew was pretty much veterans, while BM only had children/ teens in her crew, not a name in her crew has anything close to the hype/ Feats/ Potrayal Ray does and so, if Roger wished to attack and dismantle BMs crew, it would have been easy, not because BM could match Roger for a while but the rest of crew wouldnt be able to, so at least use your head a little... you would understand it’s not a portrayal of power on BMs part.

And this no limit fallacy everyone keeps throwing around needs to stop. ‘BM has never been scarred or damaged before’... is this how things are being done now? Mihawks doesn’t have any scars so he is unbeatable? How many characters DONT have scars? Are they also invincible like Bm?
It’s simple BM skin is as hard as we saw and what damage she was able to block, anything above that would automatically damage her till BM shows feats above what she has already shown, A quake punch, Magma fist and the like would not just bypass her skin but also do damage , same as Kaidou anything above G4 level attacks he has no feats of tanking and will take damage till we see differently, stop the BS reasons like they fought this and that person and was scarless. Maybe she heals pretty fast, a lot of characters take immense damage from an attack and walk out without any scars (aka Akainu), so please stop this BS reasoning and move on.

Someone doesn’t need to scar someone to beat them.

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## Fel1x (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Oda is just bad with his consistency, Roger and his crew was pretty much veterans, while BM only had children/ teens in her crew, not a name in her crew has anything close to the hype/ Feats/ Potrayal Ray does and so, if Roger wished to attack and dismantle BMs crew, it would have been easy, not because BM could match Roger for a while but the rest of crew wouldnt be able to, so at least use your head a little... you would understand it’s not a portrayal of power on BMs part.
> 
> And this no limit fallacy everyone keeps throwing around needs to stop. ‘BM has never been scarred or damaged before’... is this how things are being done now? Mihawks doesn’t have any scars so he is unbeatable? How many characters DONT have scars? Are they also invincible like Bm?
> It’s simple BM skin is as hard as we saw and what damage she was able to block, anything above that would automatically damage her till BM shows feats above what she has already shown, A quake punch, Magma fist and the like would not just bypass her skin but also do damage , same as Kaidou anything above G4 level attacks he has no feats of tanking and will take damage till we see differently, stop the BS reasons like they fought this and that person and was scarless. Maybe she heals pretty fast, a lot of characters take immense damage from an attack and walk out without any scars (aka Akainu), so please stop this BS reasoning and move on.
> ...


Oda as always doesn't care about power levels. Roger's crew (excluding Roger) should be >> WB's (excluding WB). but they were even in flashback. WB's crew that were almost soloed by Akainu and soloed by Teach. and at Roger vs WB time they were kids

probably this was the last time we saw prime Ray. and this Prime Ray was portrayed as just another Yonko's FM there. 

as for BM and Mihawk: 1) BM is a Yonko and was Rox crew member. this means she absolutely fought more people than Mihawk
2) just look at Mihawl. he doesn't even care about battles. only battles with good swordsmen. But he is the best, so it is only natural he doesn't have scars
3) BM was hyped for her skin. he body being undamaged really means something because of that

Magma fist is like a lightsaber from SW, ofcourse it would bypass. but how fast? it took a while for lighsaber to cut some massive doors for example in Star Wars. Will Akainu have enough time for that? we can only guess

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## Beast (Dec 30, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Oda as always doesn't care about power levels. Roger's crew (excluding Roger) should be >> WB's (excluding WB). but they were even in flashback. WB's crew that were almost soloed by Akainu and soloed by Teach. and at Roger vs WB time they were kids
> 
> probably this was the last time we saw prime Ray. and this Prime Ray was portrayed as just another Yonko's FM there.
> 
> ...


Akainu would fist BM easily if she doesn’t block and that goes for anyone that’s solid top tier by scaling if they don’t already have the feats.


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## Fel1x (Dec 30, 2019)

MasterBeast said:


> Akainu would fist BM easily if she doesn’t block and that goes for anyone that’s solid top tier by scaling if they don’t already have the feats.


even by scaling it is wrong. fist easily=easy diffing her=mid diffing Kaido (mid only because Kaido's offence powers>BM)=wtf are you reading=Akainu new tier which is above Yonko?


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## Light D Lamperouge (Dec 30, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> Oda as always doesn't care about power levels. Roger's crew (excluding Roger) should be >> WB's (excluding WB). but they were even in flashback. WB's crew that were almost soloed by Akainu and soloed by Teach. and at Roger vs WB time they were kids


Firstly, it was a treasure hunt and not a full on battle between crews. 

I'll walk you through it. 

WB and Roger both state that the other should drop all of his valuables and leave 


The Roger Pirates say that they are gonna take everything the WBP got 


Ray himself says that the attempt to pillage each other become a gift exchange 


Buggy notes how BB didn't sleep during the cease-fire of the pillage 


Look at Ray carefully as well. While everyone is dirtied or in bandages, once again implying there was no serious fighting going on, as the island itself wouldn't survive a full on fight, Ray is 100 percent clean, no dirt no bandages, nothing. 



Fel1x said:


> probably this was the last time we saw prime Ray. and this Prime Ray was portrayed as just another Yonko's FM there.


Absolutely no. 

This is portrayal. 

While all the crew members, Gaban included, refer to Roger as captain Roger, Ray simply calls him Roger. 




*Spoiler*: _RAY_ 








In a full on shot, Roger and Rayleigh are standing next to each other 


Again, Roger and Rayleigh in the centre of the panel



Roger himself calling Rayleigh his partner 


There's a clear cut portrayal difference between Ray and all the other commanders. It's laughable to even compare him to them. His feats even in old age shit on all the commander feats. Prime Ray is definitely upper top tier level.

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## Sherlōck (Dec 30, 2019)

Rayleigh either wins or loses extreme difficulty. Adding Oden is just icing on the cake.

The duo wins with high difficulty.


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## Dunno (Dec 30, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> 3) BM was hyped for her skin. he body being undamaged really means something because of that


Her body has been damaged though. Both by the floor when her favourite painting was destroyed and by Queen's headbutt. The first was a special case, but the second one clearly shows us the limit of her body's supposed undamagability.


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 31, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Her body has been damaged though. Both by the floor when her favourite painting was destroyed and by Queen's headbutt. The first was a special case, but the second one clearly shows us the limit of her body's supposed undamagability.


No, just when the painting was broken. Queen couldn't injure BM, that's why Queen freaked out saying that they were dead.

And that was BM without even using Haki, she was able to tank a YC attack without any damage, just like Kaidou, but in this case her durability has also been hyped, Kaidou's never.


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## Corax (Dec 31, 2019)

If Kaido can be damaged by Oden's advanced haki,so can be BM. Both Ray and Oden won't have any troubles here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Dec 31, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> even by scaling it is wrong. fist easily=easy diffing her=mid diffing Kaido (mid only because Kaido's offence powers>BM)=wtf are you reading=Akainu new tier which is above Yonko?


I’m not sure what kinda maths you’re tryna do but it’s simple nple as BM can be and will be damaged in an all out fight against a top tier.


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## Seraphoenix (Dec 31, 2019)

No one besides Roger, Garp, Xebec and WB is soloing a Yonkou. It’s just not happening. If you think so it’s time to drop the manga because clearly you haven’t been paying attention or can’t read.


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## Zuhaitz (Dec 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> If Kaido can be damaged by Oden's advanced haki,so can be BM. Both Ray and Oden won't have any troubles here.


No, prove that Kaidou is more durable than BM, because as far as I know Kaidou has scars, BM doesn't.


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## Gledania (Dec 31, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, prove that Kaidou is more durable than BM, because as far as I know Kaidou has scars, BM doesn't.



Prove BM is more Durable than Kaido. Cause as far as I know one faced Oden and the other didn't.


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## Sabco (Dec 31, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, prove that Kaidou is more durable than BM, because as far as I know Kaidou has scars, BM doesn't.



Then why BM needs CoA cladding and blocking with her arm to stop a Kong Gun when Kaido can just lay on the ground and eat a Kong Gun Organ without protection ?

why is Kaido's introduction itself hyped the fuck out of his durability as if it's out of this world and nothing can do anything to him ?

why BM needs Zeus to carry her from the fall of her castle when Kaido willingly jumps off 10,000km island and doesn't even scratch himself ?

" prove that kaido is more durable"

go reread manga


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## Light D Lamperouge (Dec 31, 2019)

The sound effect of Queen smashing Linlin's head is the same as Zoro nearly breaking Miss Monday's skull in two.

メキメキ - cracking

Oda uses that sfx for cracking


Before anyone tries to bring up that there was no picture to show us that, Oda doesn't always show cracked bones 

*Spoiler*: __ 








Sanji is walking with broken bones, whilst Linlin is out. 



Linlin was later seen eating 

which helped her restore her health and bones, like Ruffy and Brooke did

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## Fel1x (Dec 31, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Her body has been damaged though. Both by the floor when her favourite painting was destroyed and by Queen's headbutt. The first was a special case, but the second one clearly shows us the limit of her body's supposed undamagability.


lol second one is a special case too. she wasn’t even herself


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## Dunno (Dec 31, 2019)

Fel1x said:


> lol second one is a special case too. she wasn’t even herself


Her body was itself. She was caught off-guard, that's true, but if we're talking about her body being invulnerable, that doesn't matter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Corax (Dec 31, 2019)

Zuhaitz said:


> No, prove that Kaidou is more durable than BM, because as far as I know Kaidou has scars, BM doesn't.


Well Kaido fell from sky island (10000 m) and only suffered a headache. Queen fell on BM and not only she suffered headache but enough brain damage and shock to restore her memories. Also her children were sure that she won't survive the fall from her castle,and they know her durability limit. Strudel had to save her.


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## Steven (Dec 31, 2019)

Corax said:


> Well Kaido fell from sky island (10000 m)


Thats a building level feat

Nothing special


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## Fel1x (Dec 31, 2019)

Dunno said:


> Her body was itself. She was caught off-guard, that's true, but if we're talking about her body being invulnerable, that doesn't matter.


normal BM is using Haki all the time, kid Linlin can't


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## El Hermano (Dec 31, 2019)

Dunno said:


>



You're taking this PIS and use it as a feat as if Big Mom never quite literally abused Queen(knocking him out 2 hits) and Luffy with nothing but sheer physical prowess, no Haki, no DF, mere physical strength.
Fuck, a slap from her broke through both Luffy's and Old Man Hyo's Haki defenses. You also ignore the fact that she tango'd with the strongest creature in the world for at least a night without receiving any actual injuries. Also, this feat happened while she literally had nothing but her physical available, and then again, not even a single drop of blood shed, she merely regained her memories, even talked to Queen and then fell asleep..

Pretty much more impressive than anything Rayleigh has shown so far. Of course, let's ignore all those impressive showings.

That being said, Rayleigh should still scale, but at best they're around even and it could go either way. I still believe she has the edge at least until we see more out of Rayleigh.


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## Red Admiral (Dec 31, 2019)

Big Mom (any Yonko) > Dark King > Oden

but no one can beat the two of them

unless we get new info about Yonko > > Oden in next few chapters

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dunno (Dec 31, 2019)

El Hermano said:


> You're taking this PIS and use it as a feat as if Big Mom never quite literally abused Queen(knocking him out 2 hits) and Luffy with nothing but sheer physical prowess, no Haki, no DF, mere physical strength.
> Fuck, a slap from her broke through both Luffy's and Old Man Hyo's Haki defenses. You also ignore the fact that she tango'd with the strongest creature in the world for at least a night without receiving any actual injuries. Also, this feat happened while she literally had nothing but her physical available, and then again, not even a single drop of blood shed, she merely regained her memories, even talked to Queen and then fell asleep..
> 
> Pretty much more impressive than anything Rayleigh has shown so far. Of course, let's ignore all those impressive showings.
> ...


What I'm talking about in the specific post you quoted is that Big Mom took damage, which some people claim she didn't. She didn't lose any blood, that's true, but she did suffer damage to her brain. More than anything, I dislike when people state things they know to be untrue. 

Regarding what is impressive or not, I would say that her failing to do anything to King was incredibly unimpressive, and limits how high you can place her. No other top tier has been knocked out in a similar manner by anyone, let alone a YC. Against Queen she was obviously weakened, not having access to her memories, but it's still a very weak showing. She knocked Queen down, but she didn't knock him out. She has great physical stats, but she's got many glaring weaknesses as welland you can't simply ignore all of them, like some people are prone to doing. 

Her fight against Kaido was off-panelled. We don't know what they were doing, but we know that that they were both unscathed afterwards. If you believe that they were fighting seriously, then you need to make the argument that they both have a much much higher defence than offense, to the point where they couldn't even injure each other, but that seems unlikely. Kaido most likely isn't the strongest creature in the world, since Oda specifically avoided stating that he was. If his title was true, then Oda would have most likely confirmed it, like he did with WB and Mihawk.

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## El Hermano (Dec 31, 2019)

Dunno said:


> What I'm talking about in the specific post you quoted is that Big Mom took damage, which some people claim she didn't. She didn't lose any blood, that's true, but she did suffer damage to her brain. More than anything, I dislike when people state things they know to be untrue.


I mean, we did see her take actual damage, she grazed her knees once. It's not like she cannot be damaged. That's asinine to assume.



> Regarding what is impressive or not, I would say that her failing to do anything to King was incredibly unimpressive, and limits how high you can place her. No other top tier has been knocked out in a similar manner by anyone, let alone a YC.



King literally showed up out of nowhere and knocked down the boat, again, pure PIS. I don't see how I'm supposed to take it seriously. It's not that she can't damage him, he had the element of surprise and was out of range.




> Against Queen she was obviously weakened, not having access to her memories, but it's still a very weak showing. She knocked Queen down, but she didn't knock him out. She has great physical stats, but she's got many glaring weaknesses as welland you can't simply ignore all of them, like some people are prone to doing.



She knocked Queen out, he went out of his Zoan form and was just laying there with no signs of consciousness after 2 hits, how is that not a knock out? It was literally said he was taken OUT in 2 hits.
He couldn't do anything to her in a fight. And again, she had no Haki or DF available, nor her combat experience. Yet, she completely crushed him. You're trying to twist it the other way.
She didn't suffer any significant damage, again, she got hit, her head hurt a little but she was conscious again and went snoring.
This is, again, pure PIS. It's kinda very easy to differentiate.



> Her fight against Kaido was off-panelled. We don't know what they were doing, but we know that that they were both unscathed afterwards. If you believe that they were fighting seriously, then you need to make the argument that they both have a much much higher defence than offense, to the point where they couldn't even injure each other, but that seems unlikely. Kaido most likely isn't the strongest creature in the world, since Oda specifically avoided stating that he was. If his title was true, then Oda would have most likely confirmed it, like he did with WB and Mihawk.


They weren't having a picnic .They were obviously fighting ALL NIGHT long at the very least, their first clash split the sky and turned the sea upside down, even more impressive than when Shanks clashed with Whitebeard. They were shaking the island and would have destroyed it according to Queen.
Both knocked out YC level opponents with no effort at all. Kaido proved to be fast and strong enough to put down Luffy, who's YC1, with a single blow. Yet, failed to do anything to Big Mom throughout the entire night. Their offensive abilities are obviously far superior to those of their first mates.

Do you not see where the flaw is? Again, those dumb instances were pure PIS. She's proven times and times again that in an actual battle, when she's not stripped out of all of the crucial abilities that make a warrior in OP truly strong, she's easily FAR superior. Furthermore, even without said abilities her physical prowess alone could put down a YC1 for good if they were to actually fight to the death.

You're nitpicking those PIS instances while completely discarding and downplaying the serious ones, where she was actually fighting. This is a lame downplay attempt, dude.


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## Zuhaitz (Jan 1, 2020)

Kadiou falls from 10000 meters, probably using haki to protect himself, and has a headache --> He totally tanked it
Queen (a giant and fat dyno) falls from great height right onto BM's head, who isn't using haki at all --> She didn't tank it, she has a headache


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## Sherlōck (Jan 1, 2020)

What great height did Queen fall from?


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## Sabco (Jan 1, 2020)

Zuhaitz said:


> Kadiou falls from 10000 meters, probably using haki to protect himself,



Why would he even use Haki when he jumped to suicide and kill himself in the first place ?


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## Steven (Jan 1, 2020)

this suicide plot is shit

He just need to jump into the ocean or eat a second devil fruit.

Result=Dead

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zuhaitz (Jan 1, 2020)

Sabco said:


> Why would he even use Haki when he jumped to suicide and kill himself in the first place ?





Acno said:


> this suicide plot is shit
> 
> He just need to jump into the ocean or eat a second devil fruit.
> 
> Result=Dead



This.
More than real suicide attempts, he likes to tests his limits. And for that he uses both his physical might and haki.


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## Sabco (Jan 1, 2020)

Acno said:


> this suicide plot is shit
> 
> He just need to jump into the ocean or eat a second devil fruit.
> 
> Result=Dead



Really don't get what this has to do with Kaido using Haki during his fall.

He didn't fly 1000km to the sky island to jump for fun. he wanted to test whether the fall would kill him, why would he use Haki when the whole purpose of that fall is that Oda shows his monstrous durability ? not only doesn't make sense but ruins the hype of that scene

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## Zuhaitz (Jan 1, 2020)

Sabco said:


> Really don't get what this has to do with Kaido using Haki during his fall.
> 
> He didn't fly 1000km to the sky island to jump for fun. he wanted to test whether the fall would kill him, why would he use Haki when the whole purpose of that fall is that Oda shows his monstrous durability ? not only doesn't make sense but ruins the hype of that scene


Did he want to test if the fall would kill him while using his usual powers including haki?


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## Sabco (Jan 1, 2020)

Zuhaitz said:


> Did he want to test if the fall would kill him while using his usual powers including haki?



tell me yourself. he can't be attempting suicide and protect himself on the same time



( i guess i really don't die ) Kaido again is bothered that he didn't die



Why would he protect himself if he want to die ? the burden of proof is on you to say whether he used CoA or not. because clearly context showed he didn't

Reactions: Like 2


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## Canute87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Rayleigh wins with Oden's sword.


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## Canute87 (Jan 1, 2020)

Corax said:


> Any of them solo. Oden was strong enough to leave a giant scar on Kaido's body,so for sure he can wound BM. Ray is the master of advanced haki,while novice Luffy will be able to damage Kaido (and BM) near the end of Wano arc. And we don't even know circumstances of Oden vs Kaido,Oden might have been posioned or weakened by Orochi.



The full details of that fight are yet to be determined.  Recall Luffy was able to hit Kaidou in his dragon form.

There's nothing at this moment to signify that kaidou got that wound while he was in his humanoid state i.e his most battle efficient.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jan 2, 2020)

We haven't seen shit from Rayleigh, but Big Mom Queens Oden back to Wano. So this is basically Rayleigh vs. Big Mom, which Big Mom should logically win.

Reading this thread I think Rayleigh might be overrated.


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## Zuhaitz (Jan 3, 2020)

Sabco said:


> tell me yourself. he can't be attempting suicide and protect himself on the same time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As stated if he really wanted to just kill himself he would have gone into the sea, he wouldn't be able to breath and would die.

And so as he didn't want just to kill himself but rather test his might, It's up to you to prove he deactivated his haki.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 3, 2020)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> We haven't seen shit from Rayleigh, but Big Mom Queens Oden back to Wano. So this is basically Rayleigh vs. Big Mom, which Big Mom should logically win.
> 
> Reading this thread I think Rayleigh might be overrated.



Suggesting Oden is a non-factor in a fight


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## killfox (Jan 15, 2020)

Are people taking BMs homies into account? It was shown that Haki doesn’t work on her homies so what are Ray and Oden going to do if A bloodlusted BM flies into the air and rains down a hell of fire and lightning? 

Also her homies can attack independent of her and are strong enough to clash with other top tiers (Napoleon in BM vs Kaido) . 

It’s not as simple as a 2 vs 1 due to her abilities.

Haki sword slashes won’t do anything. The fact that Haki can’t affect them makes them extremely dangerous as they are literally living elements.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 15, 2020)

killfox said:


> Are people taking BMs homies into account? It was shown that Haki doesn’t work on her homies so what are Ray and Oden going to do if A bloodlusted BM flies into the air and rains down a hell of fire and lightning?
> 
> Also her homies can attack independent of her and are strong enough to clash with other top tiers (Napoleon in BM vs Kaido) .
> 
> ...


You think the homies are top tier, how are they going to stall Oden or Ray? 

You’re tripping bruh. 
Oden tanked an attack from prime Roger, a homie is nothing to him or Ray, they can easily ignore them and double team BM and it’s not going to take much time do so. 

Homies don’t need to be damaged for them to put BM down, if the attacks pass through the homie, they’re only going to it BM. 

Homies by themselves don’t have the power to damage Top tiers, only if they’re used as weapon by BM aka infusing her haki and physical might behind it, same way Crackers inside his biscuit soldier and when he is outside them are totally different. 

Ray and Oden arent slow pukes, BM couldn’t tag the sunny for how many chapters and she herself isn’t all that fast, so she isn’t just going to fly above them and finish them with fire balls as if they would just sit there and let it rain.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jan 15, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> You think the homies are top tier, how are they going to stall Oden or Ray?
> 
> You’re tripping bruh.
> Oden tanked an attack from prime Roger, a homie is nothing to him or Ray, they can easily ignore them and double team BM and it’s not going to take much time do so.
> ...


Stop using PIS.

it is slowly becoming annoying

Reactions: Like 1


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## Edogawa (Jan 15, 2020)

Rayleight and Oden are virtually featless, and Big Mom's full power is yet to be seen. By portrayal-standing she wins, though. Roger shat his pants at the thought of fighting her, and stole the Polygraph in stealth manner. That says enough.

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Jan 15, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> You think the homies are top tier, how are they going to stall Oden or Ray?


Bm's 3 main homies are top tier in damage output. 1. Napolen clashes with Kaido without the homie breaking (which homie besides these 3 can clash with Kaido? The trees? lol ) 2. Zues gave Nami who is shit tier to anyone who matters  top tier fire power. 3. Prometheus the  fire homie was floating over the ocean causing everything to burn and Jinbei admits there was nothing he could do to stop it (a fish man who was on a ship in the ocean who can control water said it’s hopeless)



MasterBeast said:


> You’re tripping bruh.
> Oden tanked an attack from prime Roger, a homie is nothing to him or Ray,


As impressive as that sounds Id wager any current Yonkou or anyone close to that level can do the same. Also we dont know how strong that attack really was. Id wager that BM tanking one of the biggest if not the biggest lightning attack of the series was on the same level as impressive because of elemental damage also being a factor. Do you feel Oden could tank the same blast and continue walking though cement like it was Papier-mâché? 

Kaido and BM for instance wouldn't be taken out by that hit hell even current Blackbeard might survive. Also factor in that the Kaido that Oden lost too is way way weaker than current Kaido (BM and Kaido are both stated to have become much stronger than they were in the past. And currently have the strongest porate crew ever assembled. Even stronger than the pirate Kings. Again this is per cannon. 




MasterBeast said:


> they can easily ignore them and double team BM and it’s not going to take much time do so.


How can you easily ignore sentient elements with top tier damage output? Oden and Ray could run up and attck BM she blocks with haki, just then her hat hops off and attacks causing one of them to dodge, just then BM throws a punch that Ray/oden wants to block but gets intercepted by lightning bolts and fire blasts. These factors all become more difficult when you realise they can hurt you but you cant hurt them. Also we have no idea what Bms awakening is. 



MasterBeast said:


> Homies don’t need to be damaged for them to put BM down, if the attacks pass through the homie, they’re only going to it BM.


If you cant damage the homies but they can damage you your at a disadvantage sir. Also prove they can hurt her. She just fought a much stronger Kaido  than Oden fought for 3 days and didn't get hurt only using 1/3 of her full power. 



MasterBeast said:


> *Homies by themselves don’t have the power to damage Top tiers, *


Whitebeard getting damage by cannon balls and bullets (something that wouldnt happen to BM or Kaido) says otherwise. Wb could take damage from basic attacks and he was the strongest top tier at the time. Kaido and BM are the only 2 durabilty freaks, while WB had the insane power output. 



MasterBeast said:


> *only if they’re used as weapon by BM aka infusing her haki and physical might behind it, same way Crackers inside his biscuit soldier and when he is outside them are totally different*.


Homies were shown to attack others while BM is sleeping. If Shanks or Blackbeard walked up on BM when she was sleeping and got caught off guard by the homies fire blast or lightning (didnt block or avoid) are you telling me they wouldnt be hurt because BM herself wasn't weilding them? LOL!!!



MasterBeast said:


> Ray and Oden arent slow pukes, BM couldn’t tag the sunny for how many chapters and she herself isn’t all that fast, so she isn’t just going to fly above them and finish them with fire balls as if they would just sit there and let it rain.


This post is hilarious. Ask yourself in all the BM downplay feats what would happen if she caught up to the said characters/was in a sane mine/no pis? The manga would be over dont hit me with that BS. 

Also remember Roger ran from BM

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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jan 15, 2020)

Edogawa said:


> Rayleight and Oden are virtually featless, and Big Mom's full power is yet to be seen. By portrayal-standing she wins, though. *Roger shat his pants at the thought of fighting her, *and stole the Polygraph in stealth manner. That says enough.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Steven (Jan 15, 2020)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


>


He avoid her

I dont agree with "shat his pants" but still

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shiba D. Inu (Jan 15, 2020)

Edogawa said:


> Roger shat his pants at the thought of fighting her


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## Beast (Jan 16, 2020)

killfox said:


> Bm's 3 main homies are top tier in damage output. 1. Napolen clashes with Kaido without the homie breaking (which homie besides these 3 can clash with Kaido? The trees? lol ) 2. Zues gave Nami who is shit tier to anyone who matters  top tier fire power. 3. Prometheus the  fire homie was floating over the ocean causing everything to burn and Jinbei admits there was nothing he could do to stop it (a fish man who was on a ship in the ocean who can control water said it’s hopeless)
> 
> As impressive as that sounds Id wager any current Yonkou or anyone close to that level can do the same. Also we dont know how strong that attack really was. Id wager that BM tanking one of the biggest if not the biggest lightning attack of the series was on the same level as impressive because of elemental damage also being a factor. Do you feel Oden could tank the same blast and continue walking though cement like it was Papier-mâché?
> 
> ...


Kaidous club must be a top tier by itself and as I’ve already, if BM isn’t in full contact... they ain’t shit but minor inconveniences. 

That’s a lie... Roger is the greatest pirate there is, saying BM could walk off a direct hit is pure fanfic, she doesn’t have the feats to stop anything more then G4 attacks and that lightning attack, Roger is the top of the top, tanking a point blank range attack is as impressive as it gets, you can try to downplay it all you want. BM nor anyone currently alive has the feats to tank an attack from Prime Roger, the same Roger that matched attacks with WB that could do MF level earthquakes while just sitting, the same WB that BM put in a pedestal compared to Kaidou, Shanks or Herself. Oden isn’t a logia nor has any special defensive powers, if he can tank that named attack, I don’t see why he couldn’t tank a hit from anyone, WB, garp, Bm, Kaidou... any top tier you want to name, maybe not beat but no one in the existence of OP bar maybe IM is stronger then Roger, So if he can tank attacks from the worlds strongest and greatest pirate.. why would a homie who isn’t using any kind of haki,
Only elemental attacks be any problem. Couple Skypians took enels el Thor or whatever that attack fromthe heavens was... and loved, I don’t see Oden even struggling to tank that attack... at all. 


They can do a battle of endurance if they want... and before you start saying some silly stuff, if Ray blocks BM, Oden hits her with full force, tank the attack from the homie and double it up on Bm instead of dodging the homies, make sure Bm feels the pain, now a man that could cut and wound Kaidou who is easily >> BM in durability, and Ray on the same level... BM is not putting up a long fight against them. 


Current Kaidou being far far weaker then the one fighting Oden is pure headcanon... it’s that simple. Sengoku suggested that the most dangerous crew had been reborn, aka they are like the second coming of Rox pirates, this is two yonko crews... what do you think would have happened had, WB and Shanks joined arms instead? They are the largest pirate crews, just for the sheer number they have an advtage over almost any crew, but that’s because its TWO separate empires coming together of course they would be better then one, the more resources, more soldiers and more land then every pirate. That isn’t just to do with their individual strength, which I’m sure they’ve gained some strength but how much is up for Oda to decided, BM was already a Vet, when she joined Rox more then 40 years ago, I’m not sure how much stronger she could have possibly gotten but Kaidou definitely has as he was only a cabin boy around that time. 


We don’t BMs awakening but we have even seen Ray even try that hard, neither have we seen Oden fight all out, it’s about basic potrayal and BM isn’t topping two top tiers, that’s a fact. 

Bruh, BMs homies have betrayed her, let her get captured and you want to ask me what could Bb or Shanks do if they caught Bm sleeping? 
They would do what they want, Rape, Kill, piss on... it doesn’t matter, and a homie isn’t stopping shit, as I’ve said already, homie attacks and he either gets blocked or completely ignored because the real top tiers can always do more damage. 

She would have to catch up first... there is no what ifs, only what there was and BMs speed is very slow compared to other top tiers that could match Kizaru in their old age or damage the likes of Kaidou permantly, so don’t tell me about PIS, BM while on her homie couldn’t catch up to the ship, she hasn’t done anything to contradict this and blame it on Pis/ CIS. 

Look at all these lies. Go on show is the panel of Roger running from BM. I’ll wait however long you want me to wait. 


@Acno 
I don’t know what happened to you man.. you’re talking about PIS but turning a blind eye to basic fallacies and blunt lies? 
Just because you like yonko? 
Bruh stay in your corner and forever hold your tongue if you have nothing useful to say on both sides of the argument and not nitpick posts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steven (Jan 16, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kaidous club must be a top tier by itself and as I’ve already, if BM isn’t in full contact... they ain’t shit but minor inconveniences.
> 
> That’s a lie... Roger is the greatest pirate there is, saying BM could walk off a direct hit is pure fanfic, she doesn’t have the feats to stop anything more then G4 attacks and that lightning attack, Roger is the top of the top, tanking a point blank range attack is as impressive as it gets, you can try to downplay it all you want. BM nor anyone currently alive has the feats to tank an attack from Prime Roger, the same Roger that matched attacks with WB that could do MF level earthquakes while just sitting, the same WB that BM put in a pedestal compared to Kaidou, Shanks or Herself. Oden isn’t a logia nor has any special defensive powers, if he can tank that named attack, I don’t see why he couldn’t tank a hit from anyone, WB, garp, Bm, Kaidou... any top tier you want to name, maybe not beat but no one in the existence of OP bar maybe IM is stronger then Roger, So if he can tank attacks from the worlds strongest and greatest pirate.. why would a homie who isn’t using any kind of haki,
> Only elemental attacks be any problem. Couple Skypians took enels el Thor or whatever that attack fromthe heavens was... and loved, I don’t see Oden even struggling to tank that attack... at all.
> ...


What for lies?


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## Beast (Jan 16, 2020)

Acno said:


> What for lies?


Roger ran from BM.


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## Steven (Jan 16, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Roger ran from BM.


I never said that

He avoided a fight with BM.That is canon

Reactions: Like 1


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## killfox (Jan 16, 2020)

MasterBeast said:


> Kaidous club must be a top tier by itself and as I’ve already, *if BM isn’t in full contact*... they ain’t shit but minor inconveniences.


This bolded is funy becasue people somehow assume ina fight BM wouldnt be in contact with her homies and use them to full power. But addressing the independent homies; People keep saying the homies are no problem or a minor inconvenience, but no one has defined what that means.Do you mean others on the same level won’t have to dodge and just walk through the attacks? Or d you feel they would easily block the attacks? If they have to block or dodge at all my point stands. If they didn't block or dodge 

Google says An *inconvenience* is an annoying occurrence that makes you go out of your way, like the *inconvenience* of a detour that takes you off your usual route, or the *inconvenience* of the door bell ringing just as you are about to take a dish out of the oven.

So yes by this definition they would be an inconvenience due to causing the opponent to constantly be on the move.

*As I said in this thread or another WB was hurt by bullets, Shanks lost his arm to a sea king, and black beard takes double damage so how are the homies useless when they have been hurt by much less?*



MasterBeast said:


> That’s a lie... Roger is the greatest pirate there is, saying BM could walk off a direct hit is pure fanfic, she doesn’t have the feats to stop anything more then G4 attacks and that lightning attack,


Your wank is incredible. BM isnt being one shotted by anyone in this Manga while in a sane mindset. Roger would not one shot BM with that attack. Look at their backstories. 5 year old BM was a monster and she was on the same level and crew as WB. 

Also this same Roger avoided confrontation with a weaker a BM what 20 years ago? There is no top tier that can one shot another top tier with a single hit. Even WB had to two shot someone he caught off guard. You dont avoid someone you can just haki crush and destroy easily. Your wank is incredible. 



MasterBeast said:


> Roger is the top of the top,* tanking a point blank range attack is as impressive as it gets,* you can try to downplay it all you want. BM nor anyone currently alive has the feats to tank an attack from Prime Roger,


Addressing the bolded. You think that was Rogers strongest attack? You think it was the strongest attack we've seen in the series this far?


Your wank is incredible. So because he tanked an attack from Prime roger he can tank a magma fist to the chest? Can he tank a primebeard quake? Kizarus lazers? Aokijis freezing? My point is your trying to equate two different attacks with different properties. Elemental properties. Your making it seem like Oden continued fighting Roger, he got attacked once,said "what was that?!" and had his Daddy WB take over. 

Remember tanking an attack from the strongest fighter doesnt mean you suddenly tank a bomb. 2 different types of damage. So ill still say i dont see Oden tanking the huge lightning bolt that BM took unguarded and continue fighting like nothing happened. 




MasterBeast said:


> the same Roger that matched attacks with WB that could do MF level earthquakes while just sitting, the same WB that BM put in a pedestal compared to Kaidou, Shanks or Herself.


Wanking WB is still wanking BM shes on the same tier as WB and the fact is Roger still didn't want to fight her. Also we haven't seen Roger match Wbs quakes on panel 



MasterBeast said:


> *Oden isn’t a logia nor has any special defensive powers, if he can tank that named attack, I don’t see why he couldn’t tank a hit from anyone, WB, garp, Bm, Kaidou*... any top tier you want to name, maybe not beat but no one in the existence of OP bar maybe IM is stronger then Roger, So if he can tank attacks from the worlds strongest and greatest pirate.. why would a homie who isn’t using any kind of haki,


I agree that he could take a hit from any of those you listed and survive but so what? Can he tank the Quake that dropped Akainu? No. Kaidos mountain buster? No Bm's lightning that she tanked? No. Do you not understand different properties affect you differently?


MasterBeast said:


> Only elemental attacks be any problem.


Umm the same reason you have to wear a coat outside when its cold. Humans have no defense against the elements. DUH  

Let me guess you probably think Oden can tank this from BM  too right? 





MasterBeast said:


> Couple Skypians took enels el Thor or whatever that attack fromthe heavens was... and loved, I don’t see Oden even struggling to tank that attack... at all.


Enel and Bm shouldn't be mentioned in the same thread as they are not comparable. 



MasterBeast said:


> They can do a battle of endurance if they want... and before you start saying some silly stuff, if Ray blocks BM, Oden hits her with full force, tank the attack from the homie and double it up on Bm instead of dodging the homies, make sure Bm feels the pain, now a man that could cut and wound Kaidou who is easily >> BM in durability, and Ray on the same level... BM is not putting up a long fight against them.


The homies are more versatile thank you think. I used examples of them being independant but theres no reason they cant do other stuff that they have been shown to do like combine withe her sword , flame/lightning punches etc, cause huge winds etc. Its not as easy as a 2 vs 1. Also I keep pointing out that BM was on the level of these 2s captain. 



MasterBeast said:


> Current Kaidou being far far weaker then the one fighting Oden is pure headcanon... it’s that simple.


It was stated that Kaido and BM both get much stronger than their past selves. Thats why i said the Kaido is far weaker. BM and Kaido were still on the rise 2- years ago. 


MasterBeast said:


> Sengoku suggested that the most dangerous crew had been reborn, aka they are like the second coming of Rox pirates, this is two yonko crews... what do you think would have happened had, WB and Shanks joined arms instead?


Yes he also said that they got stronger. If WB joined shanks it would still be different because the Warlords were still around. In this case the warlord system is gone and 2 yonkou teamed up so the whole world power system is currently fucked.



MasterBeast said:


> They are the largest pirate crews, just for the sheer number they have an advtage over almost any crew, but that’s because its TWO separate empires coming together of course they would be better then one, the more resources, more soldiers and more land then every pirate. That isn’t just to do with their individual strength, which I’m sure they’ve gained some strength but how much is up for Oda to decided, BM was already a Vet, when she joined Rox more then 40 years ago, I’m not sure how much stronger she could have possibly gotten but Kaidou definitely has as he was only a cabin boy around that time.


This is cool and all but doesnt change that they were stated to become much stronger than they were years ago. 



MasterBeast said:


> We don’t BMs awakening but we have even seen Ray even try that hard, neither have we seen Oden fight all out, it’s about basic potrayal and BM isn’t topping two top tiers, that’s a fact.


Oden got hit once and left it to Whitebeard. He lost to Whitebeard. Id wager he would loose to BM at that time in a 1 vs 1 also. Ray also. BM is on the level of their captain. Can they beat their captain 2 vs 1? I wonder. 


MasterBeast said:


> Bruh, BMs homies have betrayed her, let her get captured and you want to ask me what could Bb or Shanks do if they caught Bm sleeping?


Plot. In those situations she wasnt in her right mind. And no im asking if the homies attacked them and they didnt block would they take damage? *THIS IS WHAT NO ONE IS ADDRESSING! IF THEY WOULD TAKE DAMAGE OR HAVE TO DODGE THE HOMIES ARE NOT USELESS AT ALL

*


MasterBeast said:


> They would do what they want, Rape, Kill, piss on... it doesn’t matter, and a homie isn’t stopping shit, as I’ve said already, homie attacks and he either gets blocked or *completely ignored* because the real top tiers can always do more damage.


Ok now were getting to the juicyness. List the top tiers that could "completely Ignore" her elemental attacks besides herself and Kaido. And im taking completely ignore at face value because that's exactly what you mean. Also while your at it please also list the top ties who would have *to block it. *


MasterBeast said:


> She would have to catch up first... there is no what ifs, only what there was and BMs speed is very slow compared to other top tiers that could match Kizaru in their old age or damage the likes of Kaidou permantly, so don’t tell me about PIS, BM while on her homie couldn’t catch up to the ship, she hasn’t done anything to contradict this and blame it on Pis/ CIS.


Actually your wrong. Her mind set has set her back in every bad showing of her. Her best speed feat is her blitzing Queen before he knew what happened. And this was without knowing who she was. 


MasterBeast said:


> Look at all these lies. Go on show is the panel of Roger running from BM. I’ll wait however long you want me to wait.


I see what you did there. i cant show you the scan because it has not happened on panel yet. do you need the manga statement?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beast (Jan 16, 2020)

The fact this even a discussion is funny to me... go and provide the statement of Roger running From BM. 


@Acno 
No, you didn’t say it but your fellow Bm fan did and you didn’t correct him instead you thought it’s better to ask me about PiS regarding Bm not catching The SHs... which actually happened.


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## Zuhaitz (Jan 17, 2020)

Roger did avoid a direct battle with BM.


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## Gledania (Jan 18, 2020)

Ray and perhaps oden are top tiers in my book 


Big mom lose.

"We can't take on 2 legends on the same time" is a legit hype

Even if you think big mom is slightly  above ray , with oden help he win. She end up with 2 wounds like kaido

Reactions: Like 1


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