# Yamato vs Katakuri



## Pirao (Jun 7, 2021)

Who wins? PK potential Yamato or scrub Katakuri?

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## trance (Jun 7, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chronophage (Jun 7, 2021)

Sideboobs



Seriously though, she'll be dripping mochi afterwards.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Moldrew (Jun 7, 2021)

I’m not even sure Smoothie would lose to Yamato atm.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Optimistic 1 | Dislike 2


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## Nessos (Jun 7, 2021)

Poll will change as soon as Yamato reveals her DF powers.
Still think she has the Kirin fruit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nessos (Jun 7, 2021)

Moldrew said:


> I’m not even sure Smoothie would lose to Yamato atm.


I'm not even sure Smoothie would lose to Katakuri atm. Smoothie is the most promising member of the BMP.
She is lazy and selfish, but has the 2nd highest bounty among sweet commanders while being much younger then the other 2(3).

Reactions: Optimistic 2 | Tier Specialist 2 | Dislike 1


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## Pirao (Jun 7, 2021)

Nessos said:


> Poll will change as soon as Yamato reveals her DF powers.
> Still think she has the Kirin fruit.


Of course, she's also stronger than Zoro and Sanji and M3 will be no more, right?


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## LaniDani (Jun 7, 2021)

I don't think there's any other forum where even events in the manga are dismissed.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 7, 2021)

Gotta go with the Kat


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## Corax (Jun 7, 2021)

Should be Kata,but in the next chapters Yamato might tank or block a few Bagua. This would put her above Kata likely.


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## Lord Melkor (Jun 7, 2021)

Corax said:


> Should be Kata,but in the next chapters Yamato might tank or block a few Bagua. This would put her above Kata likely.




I think that Kaidou's feat against Luffy in act 1 should be treated as outlier. i do not think he can casually one shot Katakuri.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 4


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## Mylesime (Jun 7, 2021)

Corax said:


> Should be Kata,but in the next chapters Yamato might tank or block a few Bagua. This would put her above Kata likely.


  This would not put her above Katakuri......Unless she seriously hurts Kaido exceeding Luffy's offensive output despite his 3 advanced forms.
That's without taking into account the sweet commander almost guaranteed superiority when it comes to Coo, Speed, awakening,etc.....
The downplay needs to stop at some point, if Katakuri had Yamato's feats so far what would be the narrative:
-Failed to put down Ulti despite a free hit, and was trashed talk by the tobbi ropo who stated that it was not comparable to his father's version.
-Could not deal with Sasaki when he had to protect Momo.

With Kinemon's showing the last chapters, and overall the scabbards showing against Kaido.... or BS like Chopper staling Queen.
Who seriously still think that Katakuri can't stale Kaido with Awakening + Future Sight?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## LaniDani (Jun 7, 2021)

Kaido couldn't even one shot  Kinemon in the last chapter.Tanking the Kaido doesn't make one more powerful than the other, let alone more durable.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 3


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## Great Potato (Jun 7, 2021)

So far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that Yamato can defeat Katakuri

-Knocking out Ulti for a few seconds with a sneak attack and having a short skirmish with her in the plaza? Easily in Katakuri's wheelhouse, It basically took him all of one panel to casually fodderize Ichiji, who I'd see giving Ulti a fair fight in his own right.
-Brief sparring match with Gear 3rd Luffy when neither was looking to seriously harm the other? Easy game for Katakuri
-Having hands full with Armored Division who are scuffing you up? Yeah, I'd see Katakuri running through Sasaki squeaky clean.

Katakuri takes this unless Yamato comes through with a strong performance against Kaido, but even then it's questionable if Kaido won't be holding back against his own son.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Nessos (Jun 7, 2021)

Pirao said:


> Of course, she's also stronger than Zoro and Sanji and M3 will be no more, right?


She will be like Jinbei slightly below Zoro and Sanji.
Zoro and Sanji will take King and Queen with ease at the end of this Arc.


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## TheWiggian (Jun 7, 2021)

Don't think she can even tag Katakuri. What happened to the invincible future sight that users argued about in the past? What happened that the same users who said that are leaning towards Yamato now? Katakuri stomps until she gets decent feats that outclass weak trio and mid trio members.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 7, 2021)

This is pointless Yamato has almost 0 feats so Katakuri obviously wins. I think Yamato will be stronger but she hasn’t shown that yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eustathios (Jun 7, 2021)

Yamato has nothing that puts her above Katakuri for now.


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## Nessos (Jun 7, 2021)

Ezekjuninor said:


> This is pointless Yamato has almost 0 feats so Katakuri obviously wins. I think Yamato will be stronger but she hasn’t shown that yet.



Yamatos feats so far:
Knocking out a member of flying six with ease.
Another member of flying six afraid of Yamatos DF powers.

Now Yamato is facing Kaidou.



Yeah Yamato haven't shown an all out fight like Kata and thus can't has as many feats as him. But tbh Katas feats we're shown only against Luffy and tbh, Arc Endboss hype, but in context it also downgrades the feats extremly.

If Yamato does better against Kaidou then Luffy in the First Encounter it should be Yamato >> Katakuri

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Amol (Jun 7, 2021)

Katakuri wins because he has better feats.
For _now_.
It is may or may not change depending upon content of upcoming chapters.


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## LaniDani (Jun 7, 2021)

Ichiji is someone who can fight Peros and also prevail over Oven.He is easily f6 lvl.That's what Kata did to him.Kata did not use any of his high-level techniques,such as  awakening,mogura, square mochi,diced mochi for beat Ichiji this way

Reactions: Tier Specialist 1


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## oiety (Jun 7, 2021)

By feats Katakuri will win without a doubt and convincingly. 

But my headcanon says that 5 chapters from now the results will be reversed, though I obviously could be wrong.


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## Tenma (Jun 7, 2021)

Based on current feats Kata is handily stronger

That said, it really wouldn't take a whole lot against Kaido for Yamato to change that in the coming chapters

man kaido so thoroughly negging luffy at the start of wano fucked everything up


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## Mylesime (Jun 7, 2021)

Do you really see Yamato doing better than Luffy offensively against his father?
Adv CoA was too shallow, adv CoC not mastered wasn't enough.
I have serious doubts he could generate more output than Luffy, or Zoro currently.


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## Duhul10 (Jun 7, 2021)

LaniDani said:


> Kaido couldn't even one shot  Kinemon in the last chapter.Tanking the Kaido doesn't make one more powerful than the other, let alone more durable.


Kinemon was one shot troll, crawl back, he was with his ass up and with his last effort he stabbed Kaido in the leg with 0 efficiency.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Tier Specialist 2


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## Tenma (Jun 7, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Do you really see Yamato doing better than Luffy offensively against his father?
> Adv CoA was too shallow, adv CoC not mastered wasn't enough.
> I have serious doubts he could generate more output than Luffy, or Zoro currently.



I don't think Yamato will pull anything like ACoC Luffy or Asura

but really Yamato would just need to even slightly wound Kaido with any degree of consistency (without resort to hax like Kamasonic or Gamma Knife) and withstand a few attacks to exceed Luffy's pitiful display in Act 1.


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## Mylesime (Jun 7, 2021)

Tenma said:


> I don't think Yamato will pull anything like ACoC Luffy or Asura
> 
> but really Yamato would just need to even slightly wound Kaido with any degree of consistency (without resort to hax like Kamasonic or Gamma Knife) and withstand a few attacks to exceed Luffy's pitiful display in Act 1.



But can we really scale Luffy's performance in Kuri to Katakuri?
1) Katakuri threw the fight in the Mirror World.
2) Luffy did not use FS in Act 1.
Hand in hand, using both outliers, or miracles to then conclude that Yamato is stronger seems very unfair.

The way i see things, Kaido can barely be hurt against most opponents.
Zoro, who was diminished but also overcame at the same time his limits just scarred him with Ashura and the power he awakened.
He recovered quickly against Oden, and used the opportunity created by the old hag to finish him.
If Yamato pulls it off, respect, i would be pleasently surprised, but honestly i'm sceptic, don't see him badly hurting his father , specially based on previous feats from both characters.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## A Optimistic (Jun 7, 2021)

For now, I'll give it to Katakuri. But I feel confident that Yamato will show better feats than Katakuri before this arc is over.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Simon Magus (Jun 7, 2021)

Well, we know for certain that Yamato doesn’t have ACoA. ACoO seems out of the question too. Having one of those seems like a prerequisite for beating someone of Katakuri’s caliber. 

Safe bet is to go with Katakuri.


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## Shunsuiju (Jun 7, 2021)

We'll see what happens with Kaido. She's either stronger now, or will end up stronger at the end of this arc is the way I see it.

I don't think Katakuri can mess with any of the future M4 after Wano.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## Nessos (Jun 11, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> M4


Who are M4? Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei and Yamato?

If Yamato really able to use advanced CoC like Luffy, Kaidou and BM then it should be clear that she is stronger then Katakuri?


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## charles101 (Jun 11, 2021)

LaniDani said:


> I don't think there's any other forum where even events in the manga are dismissed.


"The strongest MAN in the 3 Sweet Generals"

Smoothie secret FM confirmed

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | GODA 1


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## Trueno (Jun 11, 2021)

Katakuri has outstanding feats... while Yamato really just seems like Diet Kaido for now.


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## Shunsuiju (Jun 11, 2021)

Nessos said:


> Who are M4? Zoro, Sanji, Jinbei and Yamato?
> 
> If Yamato really able to use advanced CoC like Luffy, Kaidou and BM then it should be clear that she is stronger then Katakuri?


Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Yamato.

I think Jimbei will be closer to Franky, Robin and Brook EOS and definitely not top tier because he's the closest thing to a static character in the crew.


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## ShadoLord (Jun 11, 2021)

If Yamato can stall Kaido in a physical fight as she claim she will do until Luffy's return, she will wreck Katakuri.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 11, 2021)

Lord Melkor said:


> I think that Kaidou's feat against Luffy in act 1 should be treated as outlier. i do not think he can casually one shot Katakuri.



This. It’s been a few years since then, and people are still applying apples to oranges.

Katakuri is underrated mainly because of the Luffy effect. People need to read that fight again.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Shanks (Jun 11, 2021)

Let's go


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## MO (Jun 12, 2021)

Katakuri, just like his mother is stronger.


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## xmysticgohanx (Jun 12, 2021)

yamato one shots

Reactions: GODA 4


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## Canute87 (Jun 12, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> yamato one shots


Katakuri avoids

Reactions: Funny 5 | Friendly 1


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## Tenma (Jun 12, 2021)

Katabros...he was supposed to be the child of Big Mom and Kaido

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Canute87 (Jun 12, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> This. It’s been a few years since then, and people are still applying apples to oranges.
> 
> Katakuri is underrated mainly because of the Luffy effect. People need to read that fight again.


THANK YOU.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Garcher (Jun 12, 2021)

Yamato babyshakes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jun 12, 2021)

Katakuri jelly beans

Reactions: Funny 3


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## convict (Jun 12, 2021)

I can see them being of similar level


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## Mihawk (Jun 12, 2021)

convict said:


> I can see them being of similar level


Interesting. 

What do you think her ceiling is, by the end of series? Assuming she joins I mean.


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## Louis-954 (Jun 12, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Interesting.
> 
> What do you think her ceiling is, by the end of series? Assuming she joins I mean.


For now I'll stick with Katakuri. Lets see how this fight plays out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Eustathios (Jun 12, 2021)

If Yamato stalls Kaido for a substantial amount of time, she wins.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 1


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## Dunno (Jun 12, 2021)

Unless Kaido just one-shot Yamato without any trouble at all, she wins. I think that's far away from what happened, so I'd say she takes this with low diff or so.

Reactions: Tier Specialist 2


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## convict (Jun 12, 2021)

Mihawk said:


> Interesting.
> 
> What do you think her ceiling is, by the end of series? Assuming she joins I mean.



I think about as strong as Marco maybe? Maybe as strong as Fujitora in her prime but that is stretch - since their aren't as many arcs left I think she isn't too far away from her End of Story power.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Jun 12, 2021)

Yamato decisively.


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## Mariko (Jun 12, 2021)

Based on Yamato's feats...

Wait...

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Brian (Jun 12, 2021)

so whos making the official Ulti vs Katakuri thread?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Heart Over Blade (Jun 12, 2021)

Stalling Hybrid Kaidou for a significant amount of time without getting KOed > Katakuri who would get stomped by Kaidou in a few hits, assuming none of them land clean to one shot him. Nameless aCoC attack Clashing with Hybrid Kaidou's own aCoC >>> Katakuri's attacks.

Was funny when some people thought Yamato was Ulti level, when a barely trying handcuffed base Yamato fodderized Hybrid Ulti.


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## Chronophage (Jun 12, 2021)

Katakuri wins, not sure on difficulties tho.


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## Yonatan (Jun 12, 2021)

>>>> Sideboobmato

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

To early to say. Lets see how she does againt kaidou.


Assuming odas dumb ass doesnt skip the whole dame thing

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chronophage (Jun 12, 2021)

On a second thought.... what is Kata supposed to do against that sideboob distraction?


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## trance (Jun 12, 2021)

might as well make it a bet thread at this point  

we (most likely) should have the answer next chapter


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Jun 12, 2021)

Katakuri baby, all day. He'd have to hit her literally a thousand times over the course of many many many many hours though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Turrin (Jun 12, 2021)

Have to see more from Yamato, we don’t even know how she did against Kaidou’s attack. She could be laid out and done already


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Have to see more from Yamato, we don’t even know how she did against Kaidou’s attack. *She could be laid out and done already*



I get your point about waiting and see but lets not go to extremes here. 

Yamato said shes gonna hold off kaidou. 

So thats what shes gonna do. The question is how long will she hold out and how much damage she can do to kaidou that will determine if we should rate her above katakuri or not.


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## Turrin (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> I get your point about waiting and see but lets not go to extremes here.
> 
> Yamato said shes gonna hold off kaidou.
> 
> So thats what shes gonna do. The question is how long will she hold out and how much damage she can do to kaidou that will determine if we should rate her above katakuri or not.


Luffy also said he would beat Kaidou, it’s fairly consistent with One Piece where characters say they will do something and get laid out


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## Karma (Jun 12, 2021)

Kata


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## Crow (Jun 12, 2021)

Yamato. She knocked out Ulti in one shot, and she felt confident that she could hold off Kaido of all people. We haven't seen too many feats from her, but the ones we have were impressive, and she hasn't even used her fruit yet, (I'm banking on the Neko Neko no MI: Model Byakko).


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 12, 2021)

She's practically featless


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## Cursemark (Jun 12, 2021)

Katakuri is so overrated by this fandom and I'm not sure why.

Sure, the guy who was blown away by a kong gun & couldn't beat base Luffy would beat someone who clashed with a CoC attack from hybrid Kaido and will hold their own against him for a significant period of time

Reactions: Winner 1


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## charles101 (Jun 12, 2021)

Eustathios said:


> If Yamato stalls Kaido for a substantial amount of time, she wins.



So you think Kaido really won't hold back? Even if it meant killing Yamato?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> She's practically featless



Fought Ace Equally

Fucked up Ulti with One hit.

Fought Gear 2/3 Luffy equally 

Casually One shot a Number with a Ranged Attack.

All without using her transformation(presumably a devil fruit of some kind). 

Of Course none of this is enough to give us enough to say exactly how strong she is but shes not featless. She has enough feats to put her at minimum Doflamingo level i would say.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fought Ace Equally



Who hasn't?



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fucked up Ulti with One hit.



Who hasn't?  



Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fought Gear 2/3 Luffy equally



Seriously... Who the fuck hasn't?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Who hasn't?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ace, and Luffy are trash i agree. 

But if you insult Ulti again i will find you and it won't be pretty

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Ace, and Luffy are trash i agree.
> 
> But if you insult Ulti again i will find you and it won't be pretty



Go find Oda instead.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> Go find Oda instead.


If he off panels one more dame fight i might just go end all our suffering and have him retire early.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> If he off panels one more dame fight i might just go end all our suffering and have him retire early.



That is if your fight with him doesn't get off-paneled itself.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Jun 12, 2021)

Charlotte D. Kurisu said:


> That is if your fight with him doesn't get off-paneled itself.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


>



Oda used Off-Panel No Jutsu. It's Super Effective!


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## Mariko (Jun 12, 2021)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> Fought *Ace* Equally
> 
> Fucked up *Ulti* with One hit.
> 
> ...



Good.

Give us actual feats now.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Eustathios (Jun 12, 2021)

charles101 said:


> So you think Kaido really won't hold back? Even if it meant killing Yamato?


He said that he won't and went Hybrid right away. He may refrain from giving her the finishing blow in the end, but nothing suggests he'll go easy on Yamato for now.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Jun 13, 2021)

Base Yamato without using a named attack clashed with aCoC Hybrid Kaidou and was still talking like she could hold him off for a while. Yes,  you can tell that from just the last panel and no I don't need to see Yamato drawn standing to know the CoC black thunder being amplified means they clashed. It's been drawn nearly a dozen times. Unlike against the Scabbards and when Kaidou first fought RT5, Kaidou knows his daughter well enough to not underestimate or overestimate her.  He went straight to his strongest form and imbued his attack with his strongest Haki. Just like Yamato knows Kaidou well enough to admit the most she can do is hold him off.

Katakuri, who has worse durability and endurance than Pre-Udon G4 Luffy, would get outright stomped by Hybrid Kaidou after one clean hit or several partial hits.

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Amol (Jun 13, 2021)

Depends upon how Yamato looks in next chapter.
If she takes that Hybrid Kaido's AdCoC attack with minimal injuries, she is outright stronger than Katakuri. No debate necessary.
Even now she has enough feats to be comfortably be considered in YC1 to YC3 range.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 13, 2021)

If Yamato has multiple clashes with a serious hybrid Kaidou she wins. Katakuri isn’t close to that level. If Yamato gets stomped Katakuri wins.

I’m expecting Yamato to win and I don’t think it’ll be close either.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Angrel-San (Jun 13, 2021)

Yamato had lots of trouble with Sasaki's armored corps.  

They were blasting her to oblivion and she decided to escape an inminet defeat.

Katakuri would whoop these same armored troops easily so Katakuri wins.

He is a First Mate.  Put some respect in Katakuri's name.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ezekjuninor (Jun 13, 2021)

Angrel-San said:


> Yamato had lots of trouble with Sasaki's armored corps.
> 
> They were blasting her to oblivion and she decided to escape an inminet defeat.
> 
> ...


She had trouble because she was trying to protect Momonosuke and Shinobu and she didn’t even use her DF. Once she was about to use it Sasaki looked shook. Also Sasaki commented that he was losing his men in that battle. What is Katakuri going to do so different in that situation without his devil fruit.


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## oiety (Jun 14, 2021)

Yamato will almost certainly come out next chapter looking better. High diff.


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## KBD (Jun 14, 2021)

AdCoO requires high levels of concentration, yes?

Well my good sir, I think you spilled the beans on this one in the poll options.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Friendly 1 | Lewd 3


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## Claudio Swiss (Jun 14, 2021)

Cursemark said:


> I'm not sure why.


you know why


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## Captain Altintop (Jun 14, 2021)

Depending on how Yamato will fare against her father.

Currently I put her around YC2 before their fight.
If she can hold off Kaido long enough with actually injuring him, things could change for sure. She might progress somewhat and reach YC1 mid-fight

Finally EoW, she will be lower YC1 when Joining Luffy, below Sanji (mid-high YC1, between Marco and Katakuri) but above Jimbei (higher YC2)


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## Brian (Jun 14, 2021)

KBD said:


> AdCoO requires high levels of concentration, yes?



No?   

after all luffy was doing it easily.


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## Brian (Jun 14, 2021)

Oh wait I thought you meant advanced conquerors.

Sideboobs were too powerful

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Location comfort (Sep 3, 2021)

Yamatos Feats put them above Katakuri clashing with a hybrid Kaido that isn't holding back is above anything he's done


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## Draghensalk (Sep 3, 2021)

Katakuri>Big Meme

Katakuri wins

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 4, 2021)

I have some problems how to rate Yamato ... Kaido is more serious now but how much % in terms of mindset?
Yamato can give at least a mid-ish diff. fight to this version of Kaido.
If it's 100% Kaido, then Yamato should be slightly above King/Katakuri, rather on Marco's level.

Best case =====> Yamato wins *high *(_mid-high_) diff.
Average case ==>  Yamato wins *extreme *(_mid_) diff.
Worst case ====> Katakuri wins *extreme *(_low_) diff.


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## Shunsuiju (Sep 4, 2021)

Can we move this to telegrams @convict ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## KBD (Sep 4, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> Can we move this to telegrams @convict ?


Then we would potentionally be tagging people to join a discussion with spoilers. Just make a new one if you want in telegrams and have it merged later.

Reactions: Like 2


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## convict (Sep 4, 2021)

Yeah folks just another friendly and generic reminder I do regularly and randomly to remind us to keep potential spoilers to a minimum outside telegrams

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shunsuiju (Sep 4, 2021)

KBD said:


> Then we would potentionally be tagging people to join a discussion with spoilers. Just make a new one if you want in telegrams and have it merged later.


Right. I though moving threads into telegrams was done before. Guess not.


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## TheWiggian (Sep 4, 2021)

Still looks like Katakuri no?

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 4, 2021)

TheWiggian said:


> Still looks like Katakuri no?


What are you so scared of?

Reactions: Like 2


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## convict (Sep 5, 2021)

Katakuribros time for some serious re-evaluation  

OP was an oracle and always it is the truth-tellers who get ridiculed

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Winner 1


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## Brian (Sep 5, 2021)

convict said:


> Katakuribros time for some serious re-evaluation



damn...Katakuri can beat ACOC users


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## Shunsuiju (Sep 5, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> I have some problems how to rate Yamato ... Kaido is more serious now but how much % in terms of mindset?
> Yamato can give at least a mid-ish diff. fight to this version of Kaido.
> If it's 100% Kaido, then Yamato should be slightly above King/Katakuri, rather on Marco's level.
> 
> ...


She can match his attack.

Katakuri is getting Bellamy'd


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato all day every day.


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## convict (Sep 5, 2021)

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say Yamato mid-diff as opposed to squashing him like a bug

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Dunno (Sep 5, 2021)

Dunno said:


> Unless Kaido just one-shot Yamato without any trouble at all, she wins. I think that's far away from what happened, so I'd say she takes this with low diff or so.


Now we know. Low diff it is.


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## JayK (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato clearly wins

she is easily stronger than Gear 4 Loofy and about to solo a totally 100% serious Bloodlusted Kaido coming for that ass

she should just become the new captain of the Strawhats and the future Pirate King at this point

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Great Potato (Sep 5, 2021)

I had initially voted for Katakuri because Yamato had yet to show enough, but the current feats on the Rooftop have gotten rather ridiculous.  Matching hybrid Kaido's Thunder Bagua with her own should frankly put her offense at a level to one-shot if it connects, and she's endured blocking many attacks from him by now, so I don't see what Katakuri can throw out that she won't be able to handle.


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## KBD (Sep 5, 2021)

Kata should be able to partially dodge the thundertits' super bonk like Luffy dodged the bagua on rooftop. 

But even that was a heavy hit to take and with adCoC I don't think he can entirely evade Yamatos attacks..

Mid or at best high(low) is the difficulty Kata can take this to. 

Luffy beat him three training montages ago so it's not all that surprising.

No wait.. that bagua Luffy evaded was from base Kaido..  katabros...


He will only see a glimpse of Sideboobs before hybrid Yamato thunder bonks him back to tea time..

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

KBD said:


> Luffy beat him three training montages ago so it's not all that surprising.




I guess when Luffy "beats" Kaido next he'll be top 3 in OP current rankings.....

Yamato is powering up and is clearly showcasing feats that put her up there with the strongest commanders, so no need to argue with anyone giving her the W.

But Katakuri is criminally underestimated.
Plot>Feats, the same way Kaido's AP is overall nerfed currently , Oda nerfed the sweet commander so much that it actually became offensive.
All the Mfckers that got tagged by the Yonkou should be out of commission: Izo, Denjiro,  Raizo, Inu, Neko.....none of them should be able to stand up at the minute, yet here they are all fighting high level opponents....).

Katakuri's speed is on par, if not above WCI Luffy snakeman..... except he's not restricted by a time limit like Luffy was.
His AP was perfectly fine, and should have allowed him to behead Luffy anytime with Mogura rather than punching a gum ball for dozens of hours (he connected once thanks to Flampe  with Mogura and destroyed part of his stomach, yet was only kicking and punching Luffy 99% of the fight).
That fight was a joke, how the fuck does a character able to follow snakeman+future sight and land clean hits fail  to tag Base Luffy without future sight for more than 10 hours?



Yamato is not low diffing shit, that's blasphemous.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MrPopo (Sep 5, 2021)

Kata bros we lost to side boobs

Reactions: Funny 1


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## trance (Sep 5, 2021)

yea katakuri loses pretty badly

his coo will help delay the inevitable but that's it


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


>





I said what i said.
Luffy's victory against Katakuri has as much worth as his victory against Kaido in terms of scaling.
He had no business winning in both instances.
Then using said defeat as a measuring tool to evaluate his opponent without putting things into perspective?



Kaido got carried away and forgot to slice his throat, letting him fall into the sea...... A foe that can fly mind you....
Katakuri had to take a break in order to eat some snack instead of finishing him off, lost his adv CoO because of the exposure, regained his composure, proceeded to beat the shit out of Luffy before seeing him escape the battlefield because he miraculously fell on the Key/Aka Brulee....

And now the conclusion reached by readers is that Luffy was stronger than the Kat who lacked AP , with the thickness of the MCs plot armor?
Come on now.


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## KBD (Sep 5, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I guess when Luffy "beats" Kaido next he'll be top 3 in OP current rankings.....


Well originally when Luffy went to 1v1 Kaido after Zoro and Law left the rooftop I said that my stance on Kaido being the WSC if he lost would be: 

Now I don't know, how long does Kaido need to run this gauntlet for before Luffy can KO him and go into a coma a few seconds later himself? 


Mylesime said:


> But Katakuri is criminally underestimated.
> Plot>Feats, the same way Kaido's AP is overall nerfed currently , Oda nerfed the sweet commander so much that it actually became offensive.
> All the Mfckers that got tagged by the Yonkou should be out of commission: Izo, Denjiro,  Raizo, Inu, Neko.....none of them should be able to stand up at the minute, yet here they are all fighting high level opponents....).


They got healed by Enel



Mylesime said:


> Katakuri's speed is on par, if not above WCI Luffy snakeman..... except he's not restricted by a time limit like Luffy was.
> His AP was perfectly fine, and should have allowed him to behead Luffy anytime with Mogura rather than punching a gum ball for dozens of hours (he connected once thanks to Flampe  with Mogura and destroyed part of his stomach, yet was only kicking and punching Luffy 99% of the fight).
> That fight was a joke, how the fuck does a character able to follow snakeman+future sight and land clean hits fail  to tag Base Luffy without future sight for more than 10 hours?


Well  that's the only fight Kata has so that's what we have to go by. Blame Oda.





Mylesime said:


> Yamato is not low diffing shit, that's blasphemous.


Blasphemous Sideboob action is the best kind of Sideboob action.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 5, 2021)

In op ambition is everything. One opposes a yonko the other serves one. Ofc she wins.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 5, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> I said what i said.
> Luffy's victory against Katakuri has as much worth as his victory against Kaido in terms of scaling.
> He had no business winning in both instances.
> Then using said defeat as a measuring tool to evaluate his opponent without putting things into perspective?
> ...


The Luffy that beat Kats is stronger than the Luffy than the Luffy from prior to the Brulee rest. Once Luffy started mastering future sight and integrated it with Snakeman it was a done deal.

The Luffy that will fight Kaido again will be stronger than Rooftop 5 Luffy. Guaranteed he's gonna be way better with CoC coating and mixing it with Gear 4 to great effect.


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> The Luffy that beat Kats is stronger than the Luffy than the Luffy from prior to the Brulee rest. Once Luffy started mastering future sight and integrated it with Snakeman it was a done deal.
> 
> The Luffy that will fight Kaido again will be stronger than Rooftop 5 Luffy. Guaranteed he's gonna be way better with CoC coating and mixing it with Gear 4 to great effect.



Agree with said improvements,  however you're neglecting the fact that Oda makes it so that the foes don't capitalize on their strengths and opportunities wasting it while Luffy is safely powering up in exchange of stamina/endurance (one of his strength)
Stamina/endurance/Durability being Katakuri's weaknesses he's then particularly screwed over.
For Kaido he's been busy non stop since then, while Luffy is eating and recovering.

Fresh Luffy  Vs Fresh Kaido or Katakuri, even after his various power ups during each of those fights, he doesn't finish Kaido nor Katakuri with one round of gear 4.
He would lose both fights with neutral circumstances,  1 vs 1, even after gaining those new abilities.
Heck he barely won against Katakuri despite his power up...


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## Eustathios (Sep 5, 2021)

I don't like Yamato, but she probably takes this. Not sure on the diff.


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## Oberyn Nymeros (Sep 5, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Agree with said improvements,  however you're neglecting the fact that Oda makes it so that the foes don't capitalize on their strengths and opportunities wasting it while Luffy is safely powering up in exchange of stamina/endurance (one of his strength)
> Stamina/endurance/Durability being Katakuri's weaknesses he's then particularly screwed over.
> 
> Fresh Luffy  Vs Fresh Kaido or Katakuri,  after his various power ups during each of those fights, he doesn't finish Kaido nor Katakuri with one round of gear 4.
> ...


Disagree with Kats. Luffy took such a stupid amount of damage. 

If he had his end of fight control of future sight he wouldn't have taken such a bad beating and would be able to see when his time limit will expire to exit early and focus on dodging until his haki fills back up.


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

Oberyn Nymeros said:


> Disagree with Kats. Luffy took such a stupid amount of damage.
> 
> If he had his end of fight control of future sight he wouldn't have taken such a bad beating and would be able to see when his time limit will expire to exit early and focus on dodging until his haki fills back up.



Yeah we disagree.
Katakuri was able to put his knee on Luffy's nose despite snakeman and future sight, there is no way to explain Luffy's survival for 12 hours outside of gear 4 and without adv CoO, other than plot imo.
He was nerfed, Mogura should have put down Luffy very soon after his entry in the Mirror world.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Simon Magus (Sep 5, 2021)

I initially voted for Katakuri, but now that Yamato is hanging with Kaido’s man-beast form I have no choice but to change my vote.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato is more powerful but Katakuri is still too hard to hit. Remember, Base Luffy dodged a Thunder Bagua, while Katakuri tangoed with Snakeman Luffy


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## Canute87 (Sep 5, 2021)

Katakuri's ridiculously high avoidance will cause her to lose.

She most definitely has the power  to stand up to all of his attacks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 5, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> yamato one shots


im the smartest guy on the forums

Reactions: Funny 7


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 5, 2021)

If this poll was created after this chapter it would've been very lopsided in Yamato's favor. Anyone still think Katakuri wins obviously has some bias or an agenda.

FS isn't enough to completely offset the speed of Thunder Bagua. Especially when even Pre FS Luffy was able to tag Katakuri on lucky hits, and TB's speed is comparable to that of Snakeman. That's after even lowballing it, because G4 Boundman is already much faster than base yet was still too slow for TB.  So even if Katakuri's dodges once or twice, he's not going to be dodging it consistently. Just remember that even FM level characters without a speedblitz move like TB or Luffy's speed can take Katakuri.

One clean aCoC infused TB pretty much knocks him out.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 5, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> FS isn't enough to completely offset the speed of Thunder Bagua


It kinda is. Base Luffy is slower than FS Snakeman who Katakuri was still able to dodge.




Heart Over Blade said:


> Especially when even Pre FS Luffy was able to tag Katakuri on lucky hits,


Yeah by breaking his concentration through seeing his face. Can Yamato do that to current Katakuri?




Heart Over Blade said:


> and TB's speed is comparable to that of Snakeman


No. Unless Base Luffy is asfast as Snakeman now.




Heart Over Blade said:


> because G4 Boundman is already much faster than base yet was still too slow for TB.


Because he lacked FS that time.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## B Rabbit (Sep 5, 2021)

I think Yamato should win this. 

Her fire power and durability is just to much. 

Damage stacking just doesn't work in Katakuri's favor.


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 5, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Yeah by breaking his concentration through seeing his face. Can Yamato do that to current Katakuri?


Nope, she won't need to. He can be tagged even without breaking his concentration. Unless you want to tell me Katakuri can never be hit by characters who isn't as fast as he is, which was already proven wrong by the manga. And that's without TB


Kagutsutchi said:


> No. Unless Base Luffy is asfast as Snakeman now.





Kagutsutchi said:


> Because he lacked FS that time.


Katakuri was even tagged by base Luffy with half awakened FS. So that's not a good argument. TB is much faster than half awakened base Luffy. It was even faster than Post FS base Luffy.

It doesn't matter if he lacked FS that time. It means TB is much faster G4 Boundman when neither side has FS. And whether Snakeman can blitz Boundman like that given equal CoO is questionable. When Katakuri lost his FS he got blitzed multiple times by pre FS Boundman. Wasn't fast enough to tag him in return


Kagutsutchi said:


> kinda is. Base Luffy is slower than FS Snakeman who Katakuri was still able to dodge.


Still able to dodge, unreliably. Even base Luffy could tag him repeatedly, and TB is much faster than Luffy with half awakened FS

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sablés (Sep 5, 2021)

Katakuribros better get ready. By next arc, he'll be the new Doflamingo.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 7


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 5, 2021)

Shunsuiju said:


> She can match his attack.
> 
> Katakuri is getting Bellamy'd



It is really difficult to gauge the power levels and the gap between YC1 and solid top tiers with some inconsistencies.

The biggest problem was Kaido one-shotting Pre Udon Luffy who should be finally YC1 level at least when defeating Katakuri one Arc before with a bit of luck. Thus people believing that YC1 are low diff material for solid top tier. Luffy just didn't have the advanced Haki types albeit being much stronger than the Scabbards or any other weaker character who were able to hurt Kaido at least.

Yamato possesses the requiring Haki version and as Zoan her endurance is also crazy. And she's able to hold off Kaido for quite a while. But do you think that fight is making her automatically that much stronger than Katakuri? I wouldn't put her above Marco imo.

Katakuri is not a tank like her but he will find also a way to stall Kaido for a while. Yamato didn't do any damago to Kaido right? Katakuri won't do either but he has other advantages in exchange to survive at least.

I still can't believe that Oda let WCI Luffy beat Katakuri. Biggest mistake.


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 5, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Nope, she won't need to. He can be tagged even without breaking his concentration. Unless you want to tell me Katakuri can never be hit by characters who isn't as fast as he is, which was already proven wrong by the manga. And that's without TB


Alright. Show me something like this happening. Show me Katakuri getting hit by characters who weren't as fast as he was and who didn't break his concentration.





Heart Over Blade said:


> Katakuri was even tagged by base Luffy with half awakened FS.


When? And Katakuri later danced around FS Snakeman





Heart Over Blade said:


> It was even faster than Post FS base Luffy.


And again, Katakuri is as fast as Snakeman Luffy.




Heart Over Blade said:


> It doesn't matter if he lacked FS that time


It does matter because he himself said it mattered.




Heart Over Blade said:


> It means TB is much faster G4 Boundman when neither side has FS. When Katakuri lost his FS he got blitzed multiple times by pre FS Boundman. Wasn't fast enough to tag him in return


So what's even your point here? Yamato doesn't have FS and Katakuri won't lose his FS against her too.




Heart Over Blade said:


> Still able to dodge, unreliably. Even base Luffy could tag him, and TB is muc


When did base Luffy tag him without breaking his concentration?


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## Claudio Swiss (Sep 5, 2021)

Yamato wins high diff/low end Extreme

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

Captain Altintop said:


> The biggest problem was Kaido one-shotting Pre Udon Luffy who should be finally YC1 level



Luffy did not use Future Sight at Kuri and was basically in the same state of mind in which the sweet commander  was in when base Luffy beat him down after his face was exposed.
Luffy was nerfed and was certainly not fighting like a "YC1".... A level he could only match for a limited period of time with Gear 4




Captain Altintop said:


> when defeating Katakuri one Arc before with a bit of luck.





That wasn't a bit of luck. He fell on Brulee when Boundman ran out of steam, after benefitiating from a lunch break which erased the opponent main card, his adv CoO.
Luffy won the lottery.....

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 5, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Alright. Show me something like this happening. Show me Katakuri getting hit by characters who weren't as fast as he was and who didn't break his concentration.





Kagutsutchi said:


> When did base Luffy tag him without breaking his concentration


Seems most of your argument revolves around you not remembering what happened in the Manga. If you think base Luffy couldn't tag him at all you need to Reread that fight.


This was one of those hits. And Luffy even did this to Katakuri, with half awakened FS




Kagutsutchi said:


> It does matter because he himself said it mattered


Doesn't matter to the point I was making, which is TB being comparable to Snakeman given equalized CoO. And Snakeman without FS is still faster than base Luffy with half awakened FS.



Kagutsutchi said:


> So what's even your point here? Yamato doesn't have FS and Katakuri won't lose his FS against her too.


Point is having FS by itself isn't enough to completely dodge TB. You need to move fast enough, as rooftop Luffy demonstrated. As far as movement speed uses for dodgng goes, G4 Boundman >> Katakuri. And whether Katakuri's movement speed is faster than Rooftop base Luffy is debatable, when base Luffy could outmaneuver Katakuri when neither side could use FS back in WCI


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## Van Basten (Sep 5, 2021)

I may have voted the wrong way given the last chapter.


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## Captain Altintop (Sep 5, 2021)

Mylesime said:


> Luffy did not use Future Sight at Kuri and was basically in the same state of mind in which the sweet commander  was in when base Luffy beat him down after his face was exposed.
> Luffy was nerfed and was certainly not fighting like a "YC1"....


Yes, that's correct. Mental state is crucial and you can look much worse than usual. For example when Marco and Vista couldn't even hurt Akainu with a sneak combo attack. They were full of doubts and regrets about Ace's death.


Mylesime said:


> That wasn't a beat of luck. He fell on Brulee when Boundman ran out of steam, after benefitiating from a lunch break which erased the opponent main card, his adv CoO.
> Luffy won the lottery.....



Maybe not a _beat _of luck, this is Apoo's task.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 5, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Seems most of your argument revolves around you not remembering what happened in the Manga.


Same can be said for you. In fact, your argument is selectively picking which parts of the manga fit your bias.




Heart Over Blade said:


> If you think base Luffy couldn't tag him at all you need to Reread that fight.


So his concentration wasn't broken here?

And I'm suspecting that this incomplete page may hide more context



Heart Over Blade said:


> This was one of those hits. And Luffy even did this to Katakuri, with half awakened FS


I never said Katakuri was undodgable, my argument was on how hard it was to hit him.

Even with your top page, you're saying that one or few instances of base Luffy landing a hit on Katakuri cancels out all the other times when Luffy couldn't touch him anyway in much faster forms.




Heart Over Blade said:


> Doesn't matter to the point I was making


Your point is wrong and is based on outliers.




Heart Over Blade said:


> which is TB being comparable to Snakeman given equalized CoO.


But there is no equal CoO here 




Heart Over Blade said:


> And Snakeman without FS is still faster than base Luffy with half awakened FS.


Base Luffy with half awakened FS didn't dodge Thunder Bagua, it was full Future Sight Luffy who did so. The same FS that Snakeman used to only equal Katakuri.




Heart Over Blade said:


> As far as movement speed uses for dodgng goes, G4 Boundman >> Katakuri.


No. The manga has shown how wrong this is. No even gonna bother with you anymore when you're this dishonest and arguing nonsense


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## Great Potato (Sep 5, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> So his concentration wasn't broken here?
> 
> And I'm suspecting that this incomplete page may hide more context



This is the context to that scene


*Spoiler*: __

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mylesime (Sep 5, 2021)

Heart Over Blade said:


> Point is having FS by itself isn't enough to completely dodge TB. You need to move fast enough, as rooftop Luffy demonstrated. As far as movement speed uses for dodgng goes, *G4 Boundman >> Katakuri*. And whether Katakuri's movement speed is faster than Rooftop base Luffy is debatable, when base Luffy could outmaneuver Katakuri when neither side could use FS back in WCI



This right here is a perfect example on how Katakuri is underestimated and why Oda did him dirty in his only fight against the MC.....
(Doflamingo, or Craker, and very Soon Kaido would be other examples of such development.....except the Charlotte brothers have it worst since Luffy was their only opponent).
We don't use the characters lower end feats to evaluate them, we don't do it with Yamato who could not permanently put down Ulti with one of her previous "Thunder Bagua", no we use her higher end feats, such as the last attack where she matched her father....
At full strength with Future Sight activated by both, the sweet commander was clearly portrayed as the fastest and more reactive of the two fighters.....
This right here is a double standard, and a wrong observation.
Boundman is not hugely faster than Katakuri, it's likely even slightly slower.





Boundman wasn't significantly faster than Katakuri if at all, which once again highlights that without Plot Luffy's survival was pure BS.
This W wasn't based on their skills.....

I'm not personally even debating Yamato's potential victory, since both characters operate in the same ballpark.
Just highlighting how downplayed Big Mom's right hand is.....
This wasn't a similar situation than the one with Doffy on Dressrosa, even after his power up, Luffy was not dominating skills wise.
Overall the MC was clearly inferior combat wise. He could not have won based solely on their skills..... He was not his equal overall.
He won when it comes to spirit, vision, willpower and ultimately won the sweet commander over.
That's why it was such a shock when Totland learned that he lost. It was near impossible.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## trance (Sep 5, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> im the smartest guy on the forums


but you also had krillin or master roshi > ssjg at some point, so clearly that godly intellect isn't always easily accessible it seems

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Heart Over Blade (Sep 6, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Same can be said for you. In fact, your argument is selectively picking which parts of the manga fit your bias.


The difference is, I proved you remember wrong. You didn't do the same for me.



Kagutsutchi said:


> So his concentration wasn't broken here?


Wasn't broken. Luffy hit him several times in base after starting to awaken FS.



> Even with your top page, you're saying that one or few instances of base Luffy landing a hit on Katakuri cancels out all the other times when Luffy couldn't touch him anyway in much faster forms.



Stop trying to shift the goal post. The point was Katakuri couldn't dodge reliably anymore, not even against Luffy's weakest form.  All it takes is one TB to connect from Hybrid Yamato to either finish him, or get close to it.  And even partial hits from TB are going to add up. Doesn't matter if Katakuri manages to dodge half of them.



> Base Luffy with half awakened FS didn't dodge Thunder Bagua, it was full Future Sight Luffy who did so. The same FS that Snakeman used to only equal Katakuri.



Shooting yourself in the foot here. It took fully awakened FS to partially dodge TB. Thanks for proving that TB is faster than half awakened FS Luffy, not that it wasn't obvious already. If Base Luffy with half awakened FS could tag Katakuri every 2-3 hits. Then Katakuri isn't dodging the even faster TB consistently.



Kagutsutchi said:


> Even with your top page, you're saying that one or few instances of base Luffy landing a hit on Katakuri cancels out all the other times when Luffy couldn't touch him anyway in much faster forms.


They aren't outliers if he kept tagging him every 2 or so tries. There was consistency there.


Kagutsutchi said:


> No. The manga has shown how wrong this is. No even gonna bother with you anymore when you're this dishonest and arguing nonsense


No, you're flat out wrong here. When neither had access FS, G4 Luffy blitzed him repeatedly. That's all the proof I need for my point. That means Boundman's raw speed was > Katakuri's. We're not talking about CoO or FS, that doesn't increase how fast you're actually moving. It just gives you precognition. There's a big difference. Reaction feats aided by precognition aren't raw speed feats.

I don't buy your word that you're done arguing. You'll come back to get the last word. But if not, concession accepted.



Mylesime said:


> At full strength with Future Sight activated by both, the sweet commander was clearly portrayed as the fastest and more reactive of the two fighters.....
> This right here is a double standard, and a wrong observation.
> Boundman is not hugely faster than Katakuri, it's likely even slightly slower.


See the paragraph I just wrote above this. You're confusing raw speed with combat speed aided by precognition. When he lost his precognition he was getting tagged at will by base Luffy, and too slow to tag G4 at all.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Corax (Sep 6, 2021)

If she can match hybrid bagua in speed and force I don't see how Katakuri wouldn't be KO here. Post Udon Luffy with greater stats barely dodged base bagua with FS. Hybrid logically is even faster. Katakuri with lesser stats shouldn't dodge even with FS. Through bagua speed and power scaling this should be a low diff -mid. diff at worst for Yamato (if we count hybrid as mid.)


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## Karma (Sep 6, 2021)

Sablés said:


> Katakuribros better get ready. By next arc, he'll be the new Doflamingo.


Next arc?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## xmysticgohanx (Sep 6, 2021)

trance said:


> but you also had krillin or master roshi > ssjg at some point, so clearly that godly intellect isn't always easily accessible it seems


i still have him >>> bog ssjg in the anime

feats clearly show that but whatever


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## trance (Sep 6, 2021)

xmysticgohanx said:


> feats clearly show that but whatever


 

what feats

(vm/pm me so we're not off topic)


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## featherine augustus (Sep 6, 2021)

Yamato ; she is mini kaido


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## killfox (Sep 6, 2021)

This is an interesting fight. Based on countering Kaidos Thunder bagua with her own Yamato could one shot Start of Wano Luffy with a single attack (considering she blocked a Hybrid bagua and Luffy got knocked out by a base Kaido)

This aside we don’t know if Kaido could one shot Katakuri because Katakuri had better Haki then start of Wano Luffy and he also only lost because he stabbed himself.

Even if Yamato could one shot Katakuri (hypothetical) she still looses this. She will never connect an attack. Also while it is impressive that she took some attacks from Kaido Kat has many more ways to deal with her like suffocation and awakening.

All in all I see Kat taking this fight Mid diff because he’s an extremely bad matchup for anyone who lacks CoO


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

*march 2024 a thread titled katakuri versus Blackbeard* katakuri stalemates bb. Bb may have gura, yami, and azure dragon df but he has no counter for fs

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 6, 2021)

I really wonder how people used to argue against Logias back when Haki hadn't been introduced.

If their character didn't have the tools to counter the Logia power, did they just accept defeat, or did they make salty posts about how people were asking them to provide a counter to Logia intangibility?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> I really wonder how people used to argue against Logias back when Haki hadn't been introduced.
> 
> If their character didn't have the tools to counter the Logia power, did they just accept defeat, or did they make salty posts about how people were asking them to provide a counter to Logia intangibility?


You don’t see the irony?


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> You don’t see the irony?


No


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> No


So just like it was unreasonable to think logia was an automatic win outside of extremely specific circumstances even though Oda had yet to show us the counter it’s unreasonable to think katakuri is unbeatable outside of specific circumstances. The strongest characters would inevitably be able to beat smoker even if we didn’t know exactly how.


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 6, 2021)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> So just like it was unreasonable to think logia was an automatic win outside of extremely specific circumstances even though Oda had yet to show us the counter it’s unreasonable to think katakuri is unbeatable outside of specific circumstances. The strongest characters would inevitably be able to beat smoker even if we didn’t know exactly how.


Yeah but until then the Logia win.

And unlike then as well, we are in the endgame of one piece. An ability could be introduced to overcome Future Sight but most current characters do not have it


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Sep 6, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> Yeah but until then the Logia win.
> 
> And unlike then as well, we are in the endgame of one piece. An ability could be introduced to overcome Future Sight but most current characters do not have it


No they didn’t win it was completely predictable that they would lose. If you said that smoker beats shanks way back when just because we didn’t know how you were wrong the story made it obvious and guess what that’s how it panned out. We have no way of explaining how bb or akainu hell even kaido would beat kata if we go with “fs makes you untouchable” but we know they would win.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Sep 6, 2021)

Yamato wins. 

People saying low diff need to chill though

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Mylesime (Sep 6, 2021)

That's a false equivalence tough.
You know why against said Logias despite the fact that we didn't know anything regarding the other characters ability and skills (aka mainly Haki) we still could tell it could go either way: Hype and portrayal. 
So even if we could not give an accurate answer. We could not pronounce any credible judgement because of a lack of data we still had the knowledge that these pepole could stand up to each other.
*No Feats needed..... we knew they could compete thanks to.....common sense.*

So we relied solely on hype and  portrayal, and portrayal told us that an Emperor , Mihawk, etc could obviously win against admirals presented as their main counter parts, let alone smoker who could not capture the MC......

What's even funnier is that many ignore the most important tools we have to make a judgement, which is portrayal and plot and base their entire argument on "feats" without any context.
The main plot element that let us know that this can't seriously be anything other than an hard fight, is the system upon which the New world is built.
*There is one sacred rule at the core of the New world 
A Yonkou empire can not mess with another Yonkou territory without guaranteeing its own destruction, because it would be so weakened that it would not stand any chance against the remaining two.*

We're seeing on Onigashima how these wars are fought, how Oda embodies the military might and the phylosophy of those empire through commanders and emperors (akin to the Ennies Lobby arc, we see the match ups and their consequences , as well as their explanations, like how for example currently Sanji and Zoro are fighting Queen and King).
The way some describe the disparity between commanders (low diff, OS,etc) of different crews, or how they compare to Top Tiers, the OP worlds doesn't make any sense. Stomps right, left and center all over the maps.....
Yet the same readers are perfectly able to understand how Oden was fucked by the plot , then lost to Kaido, but they refuse to accept that plot fucked a character like Joz the same way an simply erase his existence, same shit with Ace , or Yami Teach (Joz  would have lost against Ao Kiji, i have no doubt about that, but everything leads us to understand that without distraction Joz was perfectly able to stall the admiral, a feat WB was certain he could handle......)
Some takes don't make sense, you've even got folks who truly believe that Ace's haki mastery was lacking, despite the portrayal against Jinbei, Teach or Yamato.....
Impressive stuff.

So, like this war should already be over without the treasured miracles (Kaido should have already sliced the throat of at least 9 of the main combatant on the good guys side, this is laughable logically speaking. Nothing new in OP tough Crocodile should have killed Luffy every single time they fought including the last one where he poisoned him....). Katakuri was nerfed to oblivion against Luffy, he did not operate efficiently , taking advantage of all his skills

There are ways to deal with Future Sight, despite being inferior to the sweet commander in terms of CoO.
*One of the easiest answer, attacks with huge AoE;*
The kind of techniques we know the admirals have, or Teach with two devil fruits that can wipe out an entire island, as well as Kaido or Big Mom described as Natural disaster with control over weather (Kaido summons Tornados at will, Big Mom electric attacks are telguided/ have seeker heads,etc,etc).

With Future Sight and Awakening, as well as Mogura, Katakuri is broken, that's why he could have beheaded Luffy after a few minutes without PIS/CIS.....
This match up is close.
Chopper has better feats than Who's Who , be it against Big Mom or for 20 minutes against Queen, yet common sense let us know that he would likely lose against the flying six , and without plot, feats be damned, Big Mom or Queen could have fisted the strawhat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Shanks (Sep 6, 2021)

Yamato for now, however, I feel Katakuri will come back with Advance CoC later and making him Admiral level on EoS

Reactions: Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## featherine augustus (Sep 7, 2021)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lmao (Sep 7, 2021)

Shanks said:


> I feel Katakuri will come back with Advance CoC later and making him Admiral level on EoS




Katakuri is the only hope for the Big Meme pirates, legit the only one bar Smoothie that hasn't been clowned so far

Reactions: Like 1


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## Van Basten (Sep 7, 2021)

People are really out here still wanking Future Sight.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 1


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## Eustathios (Sep 8, 2021)

Yamato low diffs. She held full-power Kaido back.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Ezekjuninor (Sep 8, 2021)

The idea that Katakuri will dodge all of Yamato’s attacks is ridiculous. Does he beat everyone who doesn’t have future sight? She far outclasses him in speed, reaction speed (when excluding FS), haki and strength. She’s able to keep up with Kaidou for at least 10 minutes, the same Kaidou that defeated pre adv CoC Luffy in a couple seconds and then defeated adv CoC Luffy in a couple minutes, and blitzed Law and Gear 4th Luffy with Thunder Bagua. She’s going to land eventually and each hit will do serious damage.

Reactions: Like 4


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## B Rabbit (Sep 8, 2021)

Future Sight is a massive advantage. However it's not and end all be all ability.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## walter18x (Sep 8, 2021)

katakuri has the upperhand (not much to, yamato is versatile, her casuales tb can give nightmares to him, ice power for his mochi, range attacks, aot attacks, if he grabs her like he did to boundman, she can use her beam to attack him... and has greats stats) until yamato unleash "the raimei hakke"
high high diff for yamato


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## Empathy (Sep 9, 2021)

Going with Yamato with high difficulty for now. Katakuri will land more hits, and so far Yamato hasn’t shown to be an impenetrable endurance/durability freak, so I’m sure he’ll take damage. Future sight will be a pain to get around, but Yamato probably only needs a few solid hits to win this, which I’m sure he’ll do eventually.

Reactions: Like 1


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## B Rabbit (Sep 9, 2021)

I say all Yamato threads should be banned or put on hold. Because until she's done fighting every week these threads will be spoiler zone.


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## Kylo Ren (Sep 9, 2021)

Currently, Yamato she has the speed to counter the effectiveness of FS and power to take down Katakuri.


Ill assume that her Ice power can negate the mochi awakening.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2021)

Yamato flattens him eventually 

Tough fight tho

Reactions: Like 1 | Tier Specialist 1


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## Yonko RedHair Shanks (Sep 9, 2021)

Yamata one shot.

Reactions: Like 1


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## oiety (Sep 10, 2021)

Update to my last post in this thread, Katakuri gets fucking spanked.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Van Basten (Sep 10, 2021)

oiety said:


> Update to my last post in this thread, Katakuri gets fucking spanked.


It’s not looking good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## oiety (Sep 10, 2021)

Van Basten said:


> It’s not looking good.



Indeed. Even discounting Yamato's physical toughness I have a hard time seeing suffocation working as a viable alternative. If Kaido's boro breath could blow through a mountain it could almost certainly break through a pile of mochi, and if Yamato's ice breath matched it then the result seems obvious-a pile of frozen mochi shards. This matchup to me looks like Katakuri dodging, and getting a few hits in, before getting Bagua'd.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Location comfort (Sep 11, 2021)

Yamato withstood a beating from enraged CoC coated hybrid Kaido then got back up right after and attacked him landing an attack at the same time snake man CoC coated Luffy did in BASE. 
Yamatos Mirror Mountain Ability fully tanked a Hybrid Kaidos Bagua taking all the damage allowing them to counter attack through Kaidos guard slamming his face into the ground. If Yamato can meet Kaidos bagua blitz speed while using a defensive ability Future sight won't do as much as people think it will. 
Hell Yamatos ice breath could match Kaidos Hydrid Boro breath what is Katakuri doing here if Yamato can counter and take Hybrid Kaido hits for an extended period of time? Causing Kaido of all people to bleed and fall to his knees should translate into massive damage vs someone with less durability than beginning of Wano Luffy

Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Sep 11, 2021)

Kagutsutchi said:


> I really wonder how people used to argue against Logias back when Haki hadn't been introduced.
> 
> If their character didn't have the tools to counter the Logia power, did they just accept defeat, or did they make salty posts about how people were asking them to provide a counter to Logia intangibility?


Either deadlock or  gave someone the tools to attack them
Examples

Reactions: Informative 1


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## LadyVados (Sep 17, 2021)

Who wins ?


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## convict (Sep 17, 2021)

LadyVados said:


> Who wins ?



Merged the threads.

Old News Katakuri still gets mollywhopped

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Sep 17, 2021)

Katakuri is mollywhopped yet He's faster than or equal to Snakeman which was faster than Yamato on panel.

Yamato was far closer to Kaido than Luffy and they both attacked at the same time yet she still landed her attack at the same time with Luffy.

Katakuri is running circles around her. It's high diff to extreme diff for Yamato. And Katakuri can advance his own CoC to definitely beat her

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## walter18x (Sep 18, 2021)

For katakuri breaking yamato armor is as hard as she hitting him
This is something like lee without the weight vs gaara but with a less efort for the last


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## Bobybobster (Sep 18, 2021)

yamato low to mid diff, better in all stats except for CoO. Insane endurance and durability + more defence on top of that, and a thunder bagua that matched hybrid kaido's. Kata is getting mollywhopped.


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## Conxc (Feb 20, 2022)

Hmm… what’s her answer to FS? She can’t even touch him

Reactions: Funny 3


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## DarkRasengan (Feb 20, 2022)

Van Basten said:


> People are really out here still wanking Future Sight.


Well, its a top tier ability that admirals used to combat the worlds strongest man whitebeard. Its a wankable ability


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## MrPopo (Feb 20, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Hmm… what’s her answer to FS? She can’t even touch him


She matched a stronger Thunda bauga that was too quick for rooftop  Luffy and also matched snake with speed

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chip Skylark (Feb 20, 2022)

knew we've had this thread before.

Yamato actually has feats that show she can get around Kat's FS. She wins.


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## Conxc (Feb 20, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> She matched a stronger Thunda bauga that was too quick for rooftop  Luffy and also matched snake with speed


Hmm…just seems like reaction speeds + a coordinated attack. She can’t consistently match Snakeman in speed which is the bare minimum of speed needed to fight Katakuri and she doesn’t have FS. I think Kata defaults her tbh


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## Steven (Feb 20, 2022)



Reactions: Like 1


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## MrPopo (Feb 20, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Hmm…just seems like reaction speeds + a coordinated attack. She can’t consistently match Snakeman in speed which is the bare minimum of speed needed to fight Katakuri and she doesn’t have FS. I think Kata defaults her tbh


Take your salt to the Zoro vs Katakuri thread

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Conxc (Feb 20, 2022)

Chip Skylark said:


> knew we've had this thread before.
> 
> Yamato actually has feats that show she can get around Kat's FS. She wins.


Yeah? What feats? What feats show her being consistently Snakeman speed?


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## Conxc (Feb 20, 2022)

MrPopo said:


> Take your salt to the Zoro vs Katakuri thread


Show me the feet- uh, feats


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## MrPopo (Feb 20, 2022)

Conxc said:


> Show me the feet- uh, feats

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Conxc (Feb 20, 2022)

Yamato isn’t particularly a speedster. She also lacks FS. Not sure how she pulls this one off


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## Van Basten (Feb 20, 2022)

That was a cheap shot though.


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## Steven (Feb 21, 2022)

Van Basten said:


> That was a cheap shot though.


Um,Yamato matched Hybrid Kaidos TB and Base Kaido blitzes Ruffy like the biggest shit.Same Ruffy where was able to tag Kata

Do the math.FS aint unbeatable

Reactions: Like 3


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Feb 21, 2022)

Acoc is a game changer(except Yamato)!
FS isn’t the end all(except Yamato)!
You can flip the meaning of each line and put “except zoro” in the parentheses and it’d look very similar to what certain posters are saying in other threads. I’m a little surprised at the double standards!


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## Heart Over Blade (Feb 21, 2022)

If she can't tag Katakuri with the speed of her Bagua (she does), neither does Zoro.


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## bil02 (Jul 8, 2022)

Bump.


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## B Rabbit (Jul 8, 2022)

Nothing has changed since Yamato has won the last time.

Reactions: Like 2


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## The crazy hacker (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato mid diff.


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato high diff, she has superior stats and has the AoE to somewhat counter futuresight.


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## Conxc (Jul 8, 2022)

And suddenly FS isn’t so almighty  . Yama wins


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## Van Basten (Jul 8, 2022)

Katakuri extreme diff.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 8, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Don't think she can even tag Katakuri. What happened to the invincible future sight that users argued about in the past? What happened that the same users who said that are leaning towards Yamato now? Katakuri stomps until she gets decent feats that outclass weak trio and mid trio members.


She has AoE Attacks with her df.

No one says futuresight is invincible, you either have to have:

Superior speed
Superior stamina to outlast the futuresight
AoE attacks so they cant dodge or disperse.
Some kind of trick
Superior futuresight

Thats alot of ways to defeat it


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## Conxc (Jul 8, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> She has AoE Attacks with her df.


What’s the largest AoE move she’s used? Also, that doesn’t seal her the win. I think she wins, but I’m playing devil’s advocate because I want to see the difference in the arguments when it comes to another character other than Zoro _the snail_.


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 8, 2022)

Conxc said:


> What’s the largest AoE move she’s used? Also, that doesn’t seal her the win. I think she wins, but I’m playing devil’s advocate because I want to see the difference in the arguments when it comes to another character other than Zoro _the snail_.


It doesnt seal her win, and its the ice attack she used to counter kaidos fire attack.

Also, her portrayal has her engaging a yonkou in 1 on 1 for a significant amount of time, where as someone on katakuris level(start of wano luffy) couldn't come close to that. So she gets some benefit of the doubt.

I have zoro around start of wano luffy level with vastly superior AP and vastly inferior speed and CoO, so hes at a disadvantage against katakuri(and an advantage against king)

Also zoros not a snail, but his speed is low for his general level.


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## TheWiggian (Jul 8, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> She has AoE Attacks with her df.
> 
> No one says futuresight is invincible, you either have to have:
> 
> ...



Next time quote a post from 2015 and you might spark my interest.


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 8, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> Next time quote a post from 2015 and you might spark my interest.


I dont care about your interest im just telling you that its not invincible


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## TheWiggian (Jul 8, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> I dont care about your interest im just telling you that its not invincible



And iam telling you to quote an older post because this one was too recent.


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## Vinsmoke31 (Jul 8, 2022)

TheWiggian said:


> And iam telling you to quote an older post because this one was too recent.


Thats ok

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Jul 8, 2022)

Extreme diff. Especially now that we know Kaido had to use FS to deal with Snakeman. And Snakeman outsped Yamato as well.

So whoever takes this fight does so with the most extreme difficulty, since one can't hit the other reliably, and the other isn't strong enough to damage the former quick enough.


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## TheWiggian (Jul 8, 2022)

Vinsmoke31 said:


> Thats ok



Thank you


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## Ludi (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato wins


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## themightyvoosh (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato wins and it isn't difficult.

Not people in this thread arguing that Katakuri develops ACoC mid-fight...didn't Luffy, who took just about a hundred more attacks than Katakuri, have to get knocked out a good few times before he developed it? Tis a weak argument that relies on mid-fight power boosts in any case.

Reactions: Like 3


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## featherine augustus (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato mid diffs

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mihawk (Jul 8, 2022)

Mihawk said:


> Gotta go with the Kat


Yeah no.

Gotta update my take.

Barring any retcon/power creep/comeback gains by Katakuri, I think Yamato should take this match up.

She has more firepower, strength, and her speed can certainly match his with ease. I don’t think it’ll be as easy as some make it out to be though, as Katakuri’s range and defensive abilities along with FS make him an elusive fighter who is a decent foil for Yamato’s favoured style. He’s also got superior range and AoE, which makes flanking a decent option. I also just don’t see why Big Mom’s strongest son will be such a pushover for Kaido’s child. There is an argument that CoC devastated someone like King while Katakuri is on his level, but I do place Zoro on a different class than Yamato.

Yamato does outclass him in pretty much every physical attribute though, and that’s where he’s going to get beat. While he can bob and weave his way around her while dodging her devastating attacks, it’s going to be very hard for him to bypass her frozen defences and that tough Mythical Zoan durability. Conversely, a couple well placed blows by her that connect while imbued with CoC will have him reeling.

Yamato high diffs.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Ar1sE (Jul 8, 2022)

Yamato > Katakuri EZ

You guys still clinging with Katakuri
Lowest bounty YC1
Only YC1 that is not RHM
No name pirate

Reactions: Like 2


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## NotTommy (Jul 11, 2022)

Yamato, high difficulty. Katakuri is great at evading attacks and his speed will atleast allow him to land some attacks but Yamato has comparable speed, can take any of Kat's attacks and has the strength to finish him off. I have it as high difficulty due to Future Sight and awakening atleast extending the fight.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ShWanks (Jul 11, 2022)

Yamato High diffs

Reactions: Agree 1


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