# EMS (Asspull)madara Vs Kinshiki



## Trojan (Mar 20, 2016)

Location: Sasuke Vs Kinshiki
Knowledge: None
Mindsit: IC
Distance: 15m

Everything goes.


How does EMS Madara do against someone who fought adult ?

[YOUTUBE]2gKRXugQ3XQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## Rocky (Mar 20, 2016)

Madara activates Perfect Susanoo and chops Kinshiki in half. Perfect Susanoo taijutsu > Adult Sasuke taijutsu.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Kinshiki waves his chakra weapons and generates a shockwave that bisects Madara and his Susanoo in two as seen against the Shinju.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Mar 20, 2016)

the battle starts out with a cqc clash. 
kinshiki swings his axe, its gets dodged just like chojuro did except madara does it with ease due to superior stats+ choku tomoe precognition, then madara starts parrying him with his fan. 

the battle goes basically the same way that it did against sasuke, but instead of amenotejikara coming out like with sasuke to avoid his assault, madara activates susano instead, plays around with him a little, then activates PS.

after PS comes out, Kinshiki is reduced to a stain, along with kaguyas castle being reduced to rubble.

his shinju cutter is doing nothing when the shockwave only sent the kages back without hurting any of them.


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## Android (Mar 20, 2016)

kinshiki fucks up madara  

he was fbattling sasuke who is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hashirama >= madara 

anyone says otherwise should go , open up the highest window they can find , and jump to the ground head first


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## Trojan (Mar 20, 2016)

Rocky said:


> Madara activates Perfect Susanoo and chops Kinshiki in half. Perfect Susanoo taijutsu > Adult Sasuke taijutsu.



What makes you think he can react to him when he couldn't to Teen Sasuke? 



Vice said:


> I like how you always point out the asspulls with Madara but never say shit about Minato being a perfect jinchuuriki or having Sage Mode completely out of nowhere.



1- Minato was fighting Kurama for 17 years in the SF. 

2- Anyone with above avrage reading comprehension already knew that Minato has SM since 
Pain Arc when Fukasaku compared Narudo to him and Jiraiya.

I can't help it if people have terrible reading comprehension. I have debated the fact that Minato
has SM since 2009. However, people always have the  mentality "unless I see it, it does not exist" which I can't help. To me, personally, Minato having SM was a given fact since 430. 

That's why I don't bring it up.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 20, 2016)

> Knowledge: None
> Everything goes.


Madara zaps him with a genjutsu and stomp on him with PS


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## Trojan (Mar 20, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Madara zaps him with a genjutsu and stomp on him with PS



Why do you think Madara will have the time to react when he couldn't do it to the much slower Teen Sasuke? (Even tho that madara was much stronger than this one)?


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## Kyu (Mar 20, 2016)

Will an in-character Madara manifest and stabilize PS right off the bat before his opponent is up in his face? No idea, but Kinshiki will _rape_ Madara in close quarters.



> I like how you always point out the asspulls with Madara but never say shit about Minato being a perfect jinchuuriki or having Sage Mode completely out of nowhere.



Minato's Sage Mode makes sense given who taught him and his mt. myoboku affiliation. The part that throws people off is the fact he immediately thought "Jiraiya-sensei's senjutsu" as if he can't use senjutsu, but that can be attributed to an unwillingness to consider himself a true practitioner in the art since he never used it in a fight. It isn't an asspull.

Now having near-Naruto's level of mastery over Kyuubi's chakra is asinine unless Minato practiced for 16 years within the Death God's belly.


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## Android (Mar 20, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Madara zaps him with a genjutsu and stomp on him with PS



before or after getting his skull cracked open


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## Tarot (Mar 20, 2016)

Regular kage had the means to react to Kinshiki and knock him around. Madara actives PS and slices him to bits.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 20, 2016)

> I call fanfiction.





Hussain said:


> Adult Sasuke couldn't do it.


Talk about fanfiction. I went and watched the fight again and i didn't see "adult sasuke couldn't do it" stated anywhere. Not that it has anything to do with what madara can do here.

-snip-


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## Itachi san88 (Mar 20, 2016)

> cctr9 stop being hussain's echo and get lost


Finally, I thought I was the only one to have noticed that it seems his clone 

Madara wins. People can think what they want, but Kinshiki is the most "fodder Otsutsuki".

He does not win just because it's a Otsutsuki.


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## ARGUS (Mar 20, 2016)

Madara wins this mid diff at most 

PS one shots. Kinshiki has no durability to withstand its attacks and his strongest attack gets tanked with practically no damage. Since his best feat is cutting a mountain wide mini shinju


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Kinshiki, alongside Momoshiki, was deemed a threat greater than Kaguya. He fought on-par with adult Sasuke in CQC and quickly overwhelmed adult Chojuro before being taken by surprise by Kurotsuchi, to which he broke out of both Chojuro and Kurotsuchi's restraints, leaped across the area, and bisected the Shinju whilst blowing them all away before deciding to be absorbed. Him being able to fight Sasuke like that already puts his physical prowess at an entirely different level making him unable to be harmed by Madara at all. He definitely blitz Madara and wipes him out before he can do anything. Any and all Otsutsuki > VOTE Hashirama and Madara. Only Madara as the Juubi Jin can compete with these inter-dimensional extraterrestrial chakra-seeking monsters.


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## $Kakashi$ (Mar 20, 2016)

>people implying that Naruto's generation of Kages isn't the strongest ever.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 20, 2016)

Madara one-shots that pussy with Perfect Susano'o.


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## fyhb (Mar 20, 2016)

Madara wins with Mid Difficulty at most when he gets PS out.

He won't be playing around if he knows his Opponent is and Otsotsuki .


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## Shinobi no Kami (Mar 20, 2016)

not sure where people are getting the blitzing arguments from. literally every single kage reacted to him, so madara clowns him.
kinshiki isnt some 8th gate gai level speedster, he doesnt even approach V2 Ei in foot speed.

-chojuro and kurotsuchi dodged his rush and sword swings.

-all of the kages gave him the slip when he flew at all of them at top speed and attacked them simultaneously to save momoshiki before chopping the shinju.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Yeah, reading your thoughts on the match up is enough reason for me not to take a word you post seriously. FOH.



-Sigh- Kishimoto has clearly shown us time and time again how powerful the Otsutsuki are. To think that Kishimoto would introduce threats even weaker than goddamn Hashirama and EMS Madara years after the war when Naruto and Sasuke factually surpassed them by the end of the war is dumb as hell. I know that a lot of you probably hate Naruto and Sasuke but whatever that's how the series ended so you gotta deal with it. To think a regular EMS Madara stands a chance against Kinshiki is completely ridiculous. EMS Madara is complete fodder compared to this guy. The new generation of Gokage are just that good. Besides, it's not like Chojuro and Kurotsuchi even did that much damage to Kinshiki.


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## fyhb (Mar 20, 2016)

Well Choujirou was chosen from favoritism,so I can't see him as being strong Kage at all.


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## Brooks (Mar 20, 2016)

Adult Sasuke with Taijutsu is a monster, but his Taijutsu alone is nowhere near the level of destruction produced by Perfect Susanoo.

Madara unleashes Perfect Susanoo and destroys Kinshiki alongside half of the land.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Second Hokage Tobirama said:


> Well Choujirou was chosen from favoritism,so I can't see him as being strong Kage at all.



How did you come to that deduction? Every single Kage in the series is deserving of their title. There is no way you can become a Kage if you're not an S-rank shinobi who is the strongest in their village. Kakashi is only an exception because he lost his Sharingan and Naruto existed, other than that he'd be the strongest in the village. It's been 15 years since the War, that is *plenty of time for significant improvement.* My source is  in which Kishi stated it was 15 years later.


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## Zef (Mar 20, 2016)

Damn. Hussain's hatred for Asspulldara is eternal  


Kyu said:


> Will an in-character Madara manifest and stabilize PS right off the bat before his opponent is up in his face?


In character Madara likes to toy with his opponents so PS definitely isn't coming out right away. Sasuke is the one known for bringing out Susano'o even if the opponent is fodder. He don't play games.

That being said, Madara stomps.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 20, 2016)

People really think the likes of kurotsuchi, chojuro, darui and gaara are stronger than VOTE hashirama and VOTE madara.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 20, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> People really think the likes of kurotsuchi, chojuro, darui and gaara are stronger than VOTE hashirama and VOTE madara.



Hashirama one-shots those four clowns with Kajukai Kourin. 
Madara can beat them with the lower stages of Susano'o.


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## fyhb (Mar 20, 2016)

Well Kirigakure didn't have any extraordinary or really impressive Ninja beside Mei and.Choujirou at that time so basically there was no one else to be Mizukage,and Mei had soft spot for him too...

Same kinda goes for Iwagakure ,they had only Kitsuchi and Kurotsuchi who is Ohnoki Granddaughter,and Akatsuchi ,so that's all of Iwa Elite at the time and obviously who will be the Tsuchikage.

Kumogakure had Bee and Darui and Darui was Hyped as A's Right Hand Man and Disciple of A 3 so obvious choice too and he is like Kumogakure Kakashi.

Gaara remained the Kazekage but I fail to see him being more impressive as Adult.

The only Truly Strong and absolutely stronger than Hashirama and Madara is Naruto,there is no way the rest are at even close to their Level let alone above it. I can't even see them being stronger or beating their Predecessors... But this is my opinion of course.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 20, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> Hashirama one-shots those four clowns with Kajukai Kourin.
> Madara can beat them with the lower stages of Susano'o.



<_snip_>

Besides naruto who is head and shoulders above VOTE madara and hashirama(i'm talking tiers above them) the kages of his generation don't even begin to compare. Where are their bijuu tier offense? Bijuu tier defense? Hax? _Have we seen anything top tier worthy from them_?

But hey apparently these four have physical stats above 8th gate guy which puts them in the god tier bracket. Yup...sounds about right.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

I never said that Gaara, Darui, Chojuro, and Kurotsuchi were above VOTE Hashirama and Madara and definitely not 8th Gate Guy. Just powerful enough to hold their own, only if for a little bit, against the likes of Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Also you're all forgetting something. They were all unable to use their top-tier ninjutsu because Momoshiki can absorb it all effortlessly and fire it back out, so them using super powerful jutsu when Momoshiki is around would have been foolish and would have only fueled them. But anyway, the majority of the new Gokage's abilities are unseen and they rely mostly on hype save for Gaara who has a bit more feats.

Kinshiki Otsutsuki compared Darui and Gaara's taijutsu to Naruto and Sasuke's in the novelization of the film, which unlike the film obviously doesn't have a time limit to cram shit in within 2 hours. Gaara is capable of using Futon to enhance the speed of his sand and Jiton now based on Gaara Hiden (and don't bring up the non-canon argument, that's already been proven wrong before) to increase his sand defense and offense even further, Kurotsuchi was stated to have mastered Yoton in Zai no Sho as well and was said to have the best genjutsu among all of the Gokage too. She also punched Kinshiki into the air if we have all forgotten (although he was taken by surprise). Finally, Chojuro was able to create a second Hiramekarei out of chakra and use it to restrain Kinshiki after temporarily holding his own against him.

So basically what I'm saying is the new Gokage generation is clearly intended to be pretty freaking strong and the only reason they're lacking in feats is because there wasn't enough time for them to do much and the majority of their moveset was rendered useless. Kishimoto would not have Sasuke state that Momoshiki and Kinshiki are the threat greater than Kaguya and have Kinshiki be weaker than fucking EMS Madara. That is beyond retarded, and instead of downplaying Naruto, Sasuke, and the rest of the Kage why not do the opposite and recognize how strong they're intended to be instead? Could it be bias? Denial? Hashirama and Madara wank? Or you just don't like it?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 20, 2016)

It's not bias or Hashirama/Madara wank. Nothing actually suggests that Kurotsuchi/Chojuro/Darui are even just as strong as Onoki/Mei/Ei, and Gaara couldn't have possibly gained a moderate amount of strength since War Arc. The visuals from these movies are also complete bonkers and basically meant to entertain children.

Some posters just overrate the shit out of Naruto and Sasuke. They're not Juubi Jin-level characters on their own, and neither is Kinshiki based on feats. 

EoS Naruto/EoS Sasuke wouldn't defeat VotE Madara/VotE Sasuke with less than high-diff.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 20, 2016)

Their performance against Kinshiki is what suggests it, and I'm not understanding what point you're trying to make. The vast majority of Naruto fans nowadays are all young adults and late teenagers anyway. Also yes they are, that was made clear in their fight against Juudara who was running away for his life against them. Naruto and Sasuke literally countered every single one of Juudara's techniques and attacks individually and that was before the two had even utilized all of their abilities and techniques. They came out of that fight completely unscathed, fought Kaguya, and then fought each other in which Sasuke was said to be on Hagoromo's level by Kurama himself in their final encounter before finally faltering. Individually they would have kicked Juubito's ass based solely on that. You have to use more than feats to determine a character's strength, statements, hype, portrayal, ect all go hand-in-hand for this kind of stuff.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 21, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Their performance against Kinshiki is what suggests it, and I'm not understanding what point you're trying to make. The vast majority of Naruto fans nowadays are all young adults and late teenagers anyway. Also yes they are, that was made clear in their fight against Juudara who was running away for his life against them. Naruto and Sasuke literally countered every single one of Juudara's techniques and attacks individually and that was before the two had even utilized all of their abilities and techniques. They came out of that fight completely unscathed, fought Kaguya, and then fought each other in which Sasuke was said to be on Hagoromo's level by Kurama himself in their final encounter before finally faltering. Individually they would have kicked Juubito's ass based solely on that. You have to use more than feats to determine a character's strength, statements, hype, portrayal, ect all go hand-in-hand for this kind of stuff.



The movie feats of Naruto/Sasuke are terrible compared to manga feats, with a few exceptions like Sasuke's Chidori feat in The Last. But that's when we see bullshit like Rock Lee's meteor feat, as well... so I honestly don't know what to say unless everyone got gifts from Hagoromo at some unknown time. For the most part, however, their feats are contradictory and not in line with manga feats. For the other Kage to even keep up on some level with Kinshiki would also indicate that all of them wouldn't get curbstomped by Naruto/Sasuke, which makes absolutely no sense and merely proves inconsistencies that many posters around here try to argue. Any individual that thinks Mokujin/Perfect Susano'o wouldn't smash those clowns (including Kinshiki) would be trolling or just completely delusional. And that goes for the same people who think Base Naruto/Base Sasuke can do anything to Shinsuusenju.

Do you remember these situations in the manga? Very few could actually stand a chance against Juubi Jins, especially on their own. Sakura was pissing herself in Madara's presence, while Minato got fodderized in one move. When Madara was fighting Gai, he did absolutely nothing except stand there with his staff and just tank Gai's attacks. Even then, he still regenerated after everything was said and done, but he never tried to use any of the ridiculous techniques he gained from that power. All of those sequences with Madara were ridden with PIS (because of Mugen Tsukuyomi) and to similarly preserve the main characters and make a happy ending. In bloodlust, everyone would have been wiped off that area of the planet except for Madara. You talk about Naruto and Sasuke not using all of their techniques, but Madara didn't even show anything spectacular beyond Limbo and Chibaku Tensei. At any given time, we could have seen Madara wipe all of them out with Juubidama or Chou Shinra Tensei, but he didn't do any of these things so that the ending wasn't anticlimatic and to also preserve that imbecile Kaguya as final villain. He didn't bring out his Juubi/Senjutsu-enhanced Perfect Susano'o, either. Basically things that would make him decimate Naruto/Sasuke and everyone else. And Kurama's statement can mean two things: Sasuke is on the level of Hagoromo with or without Juubi. But it definitely wasn't the former. Ultimately, Naruto/Sasuke are each one half of Hagoromo's power without Juubi. Even Hagoromo isn't a Juubi Jin-level character until he seals it within himself. And it's pointless to argue that Hagoromo is just as strong as Juubi Jin Hagoromo.


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## StarWanderer (Mar 21, 2016)

ARGUS said:


> Madara wins this mid diff at most
> 
> PS one shots. Kinshiki has no durability to withstand its attacks and his strongest attack gets tanked with practically no damage. Since his best feat is cutting a mountain wide mini shinju



Judging by his fight with Sasuke, he can simply speedblitz Madara.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 21, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> -Sigh- Kishimoto has clearly shown us time and time again how powerful the Otsutsuki are.



Not an argument. You giving using the feats of:

-The progenitor of chakra.
-Her sons.
-A guy who unlocked Hamura's Dojutsu.

To justify the fact that Kinshiki, who has nothing in common with any of these people besides the fact he's an Ootsutsuki, is some god level character is moronic. Do you see people holding every individual Uchiha to ridiculously high standards based on the accomplishments of Sasuke, Madara, Itachi and Shisui? 

HA

No.




> To think that Kishimoto would introduce threats even weaker than goddamn Hashirama and EMS Madara years after the war when Naruto and Sasuke factually surpassed them by the end of the war is dumb as hell.



Not an argument. In fact a 100% idiotic argument since I can use this horseshit reasoning to claim that Shin>Hashirama or Madara.  Do you people think before you press Submit Reply?   


-snip-


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## Rai (Mar 21, 2016)

Kinshiki speedblitz using his Shunshin which is much faster than A v2 since he was able to keep up with Sasuke's which is equal to RSM Naruto.

Madara get beheaded if he doesn't start with PS.

Madara win with PS if he uses it from the beginning.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> The movie feats of Naruto/Sasuke are terrible compared to manga feats, with a few exceptions like Sasuke's Chidori feat in The Last. But that's when we see bullshit like Rock Lee's meteor feat, as well... so I honestly don't know what to say unless everyone got gifts from Hagoromo at some unknown time. For the most part, however, their feats are contradictory and not in line with manga feats. For the other Kage to even keep up on some level with Kinshiki would also indicate that all of them wouldn't get curbstomped by Naruto/Sasuke, which makes absolutely no sense and merely proves inconsistencies that many posters around here try to argue. Any individual that thinks Mokujin/Perfect Susano'o wouldn't smash those clowns (including Kinshiki) would be trolling or just completely delusional. And that goes for the same people who think Base Naruto/Base Sasuke can do anything to Shinsuusenju.
> 
> Do you remember these situations in the manga? Very few could actually stand a chance against Juubi Jins, especially on their own. Sakura was pissing herself in Madara's presence, while Minato got fodderized in one move. When Madara was fighting Gai, he did absolutely nothing except stand there with his staff and just tank Gai's attacks. Even then, he still regenerated after everything was said and done, but he never tried to use any of the ridiculous techniques he gained from that power. All of those sequences with Madara were ridden with PIS (because of Mugen Tsukuyomi) and to similarly preserve the main characters and make a happy ending. In bloodlust, everyone would have been wiped off that area of the planet except for Madara. You talk about Naruto and Sasuke not using all of their techniques, but Madara didn't even show anything spectacular beyond Limbo and Chibaku Tensei. At any given time, we could have seen Madara wipe all of them out with Juubidama or Chou Shinra Tensei, but he didn't do any of these things so that the ending wasn't anticlimatic and to also preserve that imbecile Kaguya as final villain. He didn't bring out his Juubi/Senjutsu-enhanced Perfect Susano'o, either. Basically things that would make him decimate Naruto/Sasuke and everyone else. And Kurama's statement can mean two things: Sasuke is on the level of Hagoromo with or without Juubi. But it definitely wasn't the former. Ultimately, Naruto/Sasuke are each one half of Hagoromo's power without Juubi. Even Hagoromo isn't a Juubi Jin-level character until he seals it within himself. And it's pointless to argue that Hagoromo is just as strong as Juubi Jin Hagoromo.



Rock Lee's feat wasn't even bullshit. It was Rock Lee + a whole squadron of Six Gate users and even then they only managed to destroy half of the meteor. How is Naruto overpowering an attack that can bisect the Moon in half and then one-shotting Toneri prior to even using SPSM not an impressive feat? Or Sasuke one-shotting half of the meteor before it destroyed the village? Or what about their fight against Momokinshiki? 

Also, the majority of what you said doesn't really matter. Yes, I agree as well that if Madara utilized 100% of all of his abilities that he could have beaten them although with very high difficulty. But he did not, which is why they were trashing him. They're both at least above Juubito individually though. I also definitely was not trying to argue that Naruto and Sasuke were on par with Juubi Jin Hagoromo, but base Hagoromo is incredibly powerful because he and Hamura defeated the Juubi together and then sealed it's chakra into Hagoromo and it's body into the Moon they created. It can be argued that Hagoromo and Hamura themselves were beyond at least Juubito normally.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Not an argument. You giving using the feats of:
> 
> -The progenitor of chakra.
> -Her sons.
> ...



Momoshiki isn't the only one who was greater than Kaguya, it was both Momoshiki and Kinshiki combined as demonstrated. Didn't you see Kinshiki's performance against Sasuke? There is no reasoning you can make for Shin because Shin fought a suppressed Naruto and Sasuke who weren't taking him seriously and were busy protecting children the entire time. There was no limiter when Sasuke fought Kinshiki. If Madara takes out his PS and slashes at Kinshiki then Kinshiki dodges the slash, blitz Madara, and bisects him and his entire Susanoo in half. His physical prowess is insanely high as seen when he fought Sasuke and his chakra weapons were clashing with *Sasuke's katana*.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 21, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Momoshiki isn't the only one who was greater than Kaguya, it was both Momoshiki and Kinshiki combined as demonstrated. Didn't you see Kinshiki's performance against Sasuke? There is no reasoning you can make for Shin because Shin fought a suppressed Naruto and Sasuke who weren't taking him seriously and were busy protecting children the entire time. There was no limiter when Sasuke fought Kinshiki. If Madara takes out his PS and slashes at Kinshiki then Kinshiki dodges the slash, blitz Madara, and bisects him and his entire Susanoo in half. His physical prowess is insanely high as seen when he fought Sasuke and his chakra weapons were clashing with *Sasuke's katana*.



None of them were stated to be stronger than Kaguya first of all. Second of all that's not relevant. Third of all Momoshiki+Kinshiki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kinshiki alone. End of story. So why are you even bothering with this nonsense comparison?  

And no, what you are saying is irrelevant. Naruto and Sasuke weren't gimped the entirety of the Gaiden yet someone who wasn't on their or Hashirama and Madara's level was introduced as a villain. That simple. The rest is the same bullshit you can't actually substantiate with Manga/Movie fact. Kinshiki's best feat is cutting a Shinju trunk as wide as a Mountain. Susanoo tanks it and turns him into a smear.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 21, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> None of them were stated to be stronger than Kaguya first of all. Second of all that's not relevant. Third of all Momoshiki+Kinshiki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kinshiki alone. End of story. So why are you even bothering with this nonsense comparison?
> 
> And no, what you are saying is irrelevant. Naruto and Sasuke weren't gimped the entirety of the Gaiden yet someone who wasn't on their or Hashirama and Madara's level was introduced as a villain. That simple. The rest is the same bullshit you can't actually substantiate with Manga/Movie fact. Kinshiki's best feat is cutting a Shinju trunk as wide as a Mountain. Susanoo tanks it and turns him into a smear.



Momoshiki and Kinshiki were stated to be a threat greater than Kaguya by Sasuke, she made her White Zetsu Army to counteract them. Of course they're stronger than she is when they work as a team. Momoshiki renders all ninjutsu and genjutsu useless and Kinshiki covers the taijutsu department.

They kind of were. Naruto and Sasuke were with the children during every fight they had and they wanted to get information out of Shin. Later on, when they're no longer protecting Sarada and ChoCho, and have no reason to hold back, Sasuke easily wrecks Shin and Naruto uses base Shadow Clones to force a whole army of Shins into submission without breaking a sweat. Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi has literally cut through everything it has faced in the series (correct me if I'm wrong here) and even pierced Juudara and later SPSM Naruto. Kinshiki was clashing with that sword using his chakra weapons.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 22, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Momoshiki and Kinshiki were stated to be a threat greater than Kaguya by Sasuke, she made her White Zetsu Army to counteract them. Of course they're stronger than she is when they work as a team. Momoshiki renders all ninjutsu and genjutsu useless and Kinshiki covers the taijutsu department.
> 
> They kind of were. Naruto and Sasuke were with the children during every fight they had and they wanted to get information out of Shin. Later on, when they're no longer protecting Sarada and ChoCho, and have no reason to hold back, Sasuke easily wrecks Shin and Naruto uses base Shadow Clones to force a whole army of Shins into submission without breaking a sweat. Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi has literally cut through everything it has faced in the series (correct me if I'm wrong here) and even pierced Juudara and later SPSM Naruto. Kinshiki was clashing with that sword using his chakra weapons.



Greater threat=/=Greater Power. Momoshiki has unique abilities. Momoshiki was outright stated to be gathering scattered chakra to obtain the same power Kaguya had so don't tell me that they were stronger than her.  Makes no sense. And no, he doesn't automatically render all Ninjutsu and Genjutsu useless when PS and Kurama canonically obliterated him with a single strike. Naruto and Sasuke demolished him when they powered up. They can't/couldn't do that to Kaguya.

Lol can you stop? All you are doing is showing me your logic is crap. By your nonsense logic Shin should be stronger than Hashirama and Madara based on the fact he was a villain that Naruto and Sasuke had to fight. They weren't gimped the second time around. Yet Shin was still the villain. Yet Shin is not on Hashirama or Madara's level. I don't care what Sasuke's sword cut through, but if you are implying Sasuke's sword can cut through Perfect Susanoo let me know now so I can put you on my ignore list.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 22, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Greater threat=/=Greater Power. Momoshiki has unique abilities. Momoshiki was outright stated to be gathering scattered chakra to obtain the same power Kaguya had so don't tell me that they were stronger than her.  Makes no sense. And no, he doesn't automatically render all Ninjutsu and Genjutsu useless when PS and Kurama canonically obliterated him with a single strike. Naruto and Sasuke demolished him when they powered up. They can't/couldn't do that to Kaguya.
> 
> Lol can you stop? All you are doing is showing me your logic is crap. By your nonsense logic Shin should be stronger than Hashirama and Madara based on the fact he was a villain that Naruto and Sasuke had to fight. They weren't gimped the second time around. Yet Shin was still the villain. Yet Shin is not on Hashirama or Madara's level. I don't care what Sasuke's sword cut through, but if you are implying Sasuke's sword can cut through Perfect Susanoo let me know now so I can put you on my ignore list.



Kaguya was more powerful in terms of raw power and chakra, but Momoshiki is still stronger and more dangerous than her in other regards as he can completely counter her. PS and Kurama took down Momoshiki when he was using ninjutsu as well. Did you see him absorbing their attacks? No, he was fighting against them with his own. An adult Naruto and Sasuke could do that to Kaguya, she'd just come back though because she's immortal but they could technically "kill" her. 

Shin is kind of irrelevant though, Kinshiki on the other hand isn't, and yes I am implying that Rinnegan Sasuke's sword can cut through Madara's overrated PS. It pierced through Juudara himself and later through SPSM Naruto. Unless you're saying Madara's PS > Juudara's cloak and SPSM Naruto's cloak? Madara's PS is one of the most overrated Jutsu in the Manga. Madara himself stated that the Perfect Susanoo is on the same level of power as the Bijuu, and then he tore apart the area and cut off the tops of two mountains. The tailed beasts can casually one-shot entire mountains with one TBB and they have the power to use TBBs multiple times yet for some reason there is always that one person who says "PS GG" in a discussion against opponents on the same level.


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 22, 2016)

Shiki was keeping up with the speed of Sasuke. 

Since Unlike Sasuke, Madara never starts off with PS, he gets blitzed and one-shotted.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 22, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> *Kaguya was more powerful in terms of raw power and chakra, but Momoshiki is still stronger and more dangerous than her in other regards as he can completely counter her. *PS and Kurama took down Momoshiki when he was using ninjutsu as well. Did you see him absorbing their attacks? No, he was fighting against them with his own. An adult Naruto and Sasuke could do that to Kaguya, she'd just come back though because she's immortal but they could technically "kill" her.



No, Momoshiki isn't stronger in any way, shape or form. Being able to counter someone perfectly doesn't make you stronger than them. Someone who got obliterated by Naruto and Sasuke the moment they went full power isn't stronger than Kaguya. Doesn't get any simpler than that. An Adult Naruto and Sasuke could stupidly try that, but then she'd either obliterate their Avatars as she was casually obliterating Sasuke's even when running low on chakra, or she'd toss the Gudo Dama at them and call it a wrap.




> Shin is kind of irrelevant though, Kinshiki on the other hand isn't,



 Sorry bud. We don't make exceptions for bad logic. By your bad logic Shin should be >Hashirama and Madara, yet he isn't. Whether you think he's relevant or not doesn't matter. 




> and yes I am implying that Rinnegan Sasuke's sword can cut through Madara's overrated PS



-Says PS is overrated.
-Has the nerve to say Sasuke's sword can cut through it.

 What the fuck? How can people be this fucking stupid? 

-Says "Rinnegan Sasuke's sword"
-As if there is a difference between Sasuke's sword post and pre Rinnegan buff.

   Didn't know Dojutsu made the blade of Sasuke's sword sharper than before.




> It pierced through Juudara himself and later through SPSM Naruto. Unless you're saying Madara's PS > Juudara's cloak and SPSM Naruto's cloak?



Lol no shit. Anyone who isn't vigorously wanking the hell out of Naruto and Madara know that their cloak has ZERO FEATS THAT PUT IT ON PS'S LEVEL IN TERMS OF DURABILITY. But I fully expect you to cry more about how PS is overrated.



> Madara's PS is one of the most overrated Jutsu in the Manga. Madara himself stated that the Perfect Susanoo is on the same level of power as the Bijuu, and then he tore apart the area and cut off the tops of two mountains. The tailed beasts can casually one-shot entire mountains with one TBB and they have the power to use TBBs multiple times yet for some reason there is always that one person who says "PS GG" in a discussion against opponents on the same level.



Madara cut apart 6-7 Mountains at once in VoTE. That's beyond what any Bijuu bar Kurama can do. Not sure why the hell you decided to go on this little tangent since I could really care less about your opinion on PS's power when the feats and logic is on my side and not on the side of someone dumb enough to claim Sasuke cuts through PS with his fucking sword.   Gtfo. Please.

Reactions: Like 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Mar 22, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Lol no shit. Anyone who isn't vigorously wanking the hell out of Naruto and Madara know that their cloak has ZERO FEATS THAT PUT IT ON PS'S LEVEL IN TERMS OF DURABILITY. But I fully expect you to cry more about how PS is overrated.



>SPSM cloak has 0 feats to put it on PS level
>It took hits from Kaguya and is powered by 50% of Hagoromo's chakra
i dont even have to try with the shit you post anymore its hilarious how deluded you are about this wanking of yours




KeyofMiracles said:


> Madara cut apart 6-7 Mountains at once in VoTE. That's beyond what any Bijuu bar Kurama can do. Not sure why the hell you decided to go on this little tangent since I could really care less about your opinion on PS's power when the feats and logic is on my side and not on the side of someone dumb enough to claim Sasuke cuts through PS with his fucking sword.   Gtfo. Please.



Except the sword was swung by Kurama so its not a feat for regular PS. Get. Over. It.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 23, 2016)

KeyofMiracles said:


> No, Momoshiki isn't stronger in any way, shape or form. Being able to counter someone perfectly doesn't make you stronger than them. Someone who got obliterated by Naruto and Sasuke the moment they went full power isn't stronger than Kaguya. Doesn't get any simpler than that. An Adult Naruto and Sasuke could stupidly try that, but then she'd either obliterate their Avatars as she was casually obliterating Sasuke's even when running low on chakra, or she'd toss the Gudo Dama at them and call it a wrap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. Well, he's already superior to her in terms of physical prowess and CQC. He'd become stronger than her because he could absorb all of her shit and eventually surpass her and kill her. Her using her gigantic ETSB would spell suicide for her because Momoshiki would just absorb that shit, become God, and then one-shot her with it after draining all of her chakra. 

2. So what you're telling me is that you believe that Juudara and SPSM Naruto's chakra cloaks are weaker than EMS Madara's PS? Even though Madara's PS is only on par with the Bijuu in general, whilst Juudara and SPSM Naruto's cloaks are powered by the chakra of all of the Bijuu simultaneously and Six Paths Senjutsu. Seriously? Are you mentally challenged? 

3. No, Kurama did that when wielding Madara's PS.


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## The Undying (Mar 23, 2016)

sanninme rikudo said:


> Shiki was keeping up with the speed of Sasuke.




Stop pretending that this is remotely impressive. All of the Kages not named Naruto were keeping up with Kinshiki and Momoshiki individually and even intercepting them; they were literally reacting to the opposition's strikes at _every turn_ even when Sasuke wasn't actually doing anything. Shin was also reacting to every charge and every physical strike Sasuke threw at him. More importantly, when Sasuke was trapped in Kaguya's desert dimension he couldn't even manage to get to Obito's Kamui hole in time without using Ameno despite only being like a couple dozen meters away from it, even though Sakura had clearly managed to utter an entire sentence before it closed.

Literally the only "evidence" you people have to support Sasuke being a god tier speedster without Amenotejikara spam is that one panel where he bisects Juubi Madara, which is tenuous at best since Juubidara was more concerned with using Kamui than actually trying to outspeed anyone.

This subforum is a joke. EMS Madara rapes Kinshiki in every orfice of his body.


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 23, 2016)

Sometimes I wonder if we've actually seen the same movies and read the same manga...


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## sanninme rikudo (Mar 23, 2016)

The Undying said:


> Stop pretending that this is remotely impressive. All of the Kages not named Naruto were keeping up with Kinshiki and Momoshiki individually and even intercepting them; they were literally reacting to the opposition's strikes at _every turn_ even when Sasuke wasn't actually doing anything. Shin was also reacting to every charge and every physical strike Sasuke threw at him. More importantly, when Sasuke was trapped in Kaguya's desert dimension he couldn't even manage to get to Obito's Kamui hole in time without using Ameno despite only being like a couple dozen meters away from it, even though Sakura had clearly managed to utter an entire sentence before it closed.
> 
> Literally the only "evidence" you people have to support Sasuke being a god tier speedster without Amenotejikara spam is that one panel where he bisects Juubi Madara, which is tenuous at best since Juubidara was more concerned with using Kamui than actually trying to outspeed anyone.
> 
> This subforum is a joke. EMS Madara rapes Kinshiki in every orfice of his body.


Sasuke would blitz and one-shot Madara however you look at it. 

The fact that he couldn't do the same to Shiki and even had the latter beating him at times is saying something.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Mar 23, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> Sometimes I wonder if we've actually seen the same movies and read the same manga...


I wonder this as well. in the manga that you read, the same sword that bounced off Eis cloak can chop through PS. 

the post quality of the kinshiki supporters in this thread is piss poor. stop repeating that he was keeping up with sasuke like a broken record. thats not impressive.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 23, 2016)

People wanking the kusanagi when that sword was deflected by kabuto's chakra scapel for god's sake. The kusanagi has some impressive feats but it also got some are laughable. It is not a trump card/game changer or god tier weapon.

Not that it would really matter. Sasuke using his sword, enhanced shunshin and ameno is not god tier shit foh. The same people saying this are the same people who would swear that the sasuke from his first encounter with shin is not god tier(and all he did is use his katana and ameno+fireball) offensive wise. Claiming kinshiki is a guy who can match adult sasuke is a hoax.

If someone can defeat perfect susanoo(sasuke's), his amaterasu/enton and deva path usage then you can claim they are on sasuke's tier. Kinshinki apparently wasn't even worth a chidori.


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## Trojan (Mar 23, 2016)

The Undying;55396765[B said:
			
		

> ]Stop pretending that this is remotely impressive[/B]..



Madara couldn't keep up with Teen Sasuke and got cut in half, did he not?


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## Trojan (Mar 23, 2016)

JJ SM Asspulldara is really not all that durable anyway. Zetsu's hand slides through him like butter. 
And so did Lee's kick to ET Asspulldara. 

Hashirama killed him with a regular sword as well...


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## Zef (Mar 23, 2016)

Hussain said:


> JJ SM Asspulldara is really not all that durable anyway. Zetsu's hand slides through him like butter.



Damn, you're right. 

Hands > Madara's durability.


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## Zef (Mar 23, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Sasuke's sword is above other swords. That is a fact. But for every crazy feat it has(the two you put above) *it has underwhelming ones(raikage and kabuto's feats). Hell it even got stalemated by mifune's chakra covered katana in a clash. I don't think you'd agree raiton chakra cloak, chakra scapels and mifune's chakra blade are near god tiers in durability.*


This is true.


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## Trojan (Mar 23, 2016)

Zef said:


> This is true.



Does it matter? IS this a legendary sword as well?


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 23, 2016)

Perhaps Sasuke simply seals some of his chakra into his sword later on which is why it becomes so powerful?


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Mar 23, 2016)

Yes cause VOTE madara can tank daytime tiger with zero damage....hussain stop acting retarded.


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## The Undying (Mar 23, 2016)

Zef said:


> I don't know what fight you were watching.




I was watching the fight where Chojuro flat-out _dodged_ Kinshiki's first strike and _blocked_ the second one before getting slashed across the chest by an attack that didn't manage to kill him or even put him in a critical condition of any kind.

I was watching the fight where Kurotsuchi punched Kinshiki right through a giant goddamn tree branch.

I was watching the fight where Chojuro and Kurotsuchi's combination technique bound Kinshiki before he could react even though he'd just landed on the ground.

I was watching the fight where Darui was repeatedly closing the distance between himself and Momoshiki and clashing with him.

Should I keep going?



> Individually they would have got shat on. Together they would still have got beat if not for Sasuke.




Who implied otherwise and what's your point? I'm saying Kinshiki isn't fast enough to blitz them and that they're more than capable of holding their own against him for a limited period of time.



> This is the only physical attempt Sasuke made at Shin




You forgot to post the first page in which Sasuke and Shin rush at each other, followed by Shin throwing his blades at Sasuke before Sasuke can even close the distance between them. That's two physical attempts where Shin PLAINLY reacts to Sasuke.



> Sasuke repeatedly made it clear his intention was to interrogate Shin. Not kill him.




Which is actually completely irrelevant considering that Sasuke is more than capable of blitzing an opponent who doesn't have the sufficient reflexes to react _without_ killing him/her.

His weaker eye power was the ONLY explanation posited for his relatively weaker performance, but I don't see how that would affect his speed. If he has enough chakra to utilize Katon and Ameno, he certainly has enough chakra to utilize his Shunshin.



> The way you people talk is as if Sasuke was given a run for his money in taijutsu.




He wasn't, but that's honestly besides the point.



> Please enlighten us on how fast it takes to yell *"Sasuke-kun"* repeatedly?




I'd estimate around five seconds, but certainly more than two seconds at least. Do you believe god tiers aren't capable of closing a twenty to thirty-ish meter gap in three to five seconds?



> Better yet, please tell us how we should estimate the time it took to get through the portal by looking at an inanimate drawing..




I already did. Please quit inappropriately using the word "please" in a piss-poor attempt to sound condescending.


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## Trojan (Mar 23, 2016)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Yes cause VOTE madara can tank daytime tiger with zero damage....hussain stop acting retarded.



I don't get the connection. 

Especially that Asspulldara never tanked DT to begin with, so I am not sure what are you referring to either...


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## Zef (Mar 23, 2016)

The Undying said:


> I was watching the fight where Chojuro flat-out _dodged_ Kinshiki's first strike and _blocked_ the second one before getting slashed across the chest by an attack that didn't manage to kill him or even put him in a critical condition of any kind.


So Chojuro gets injured, and you equate that to *"keeping up with Momoshiki & Kinshiki"?* Lol, no.  

Him not dying is not justification for people to hype him to ridiculous levels. After Kinshiki slashed him he halted his assault, Chojuro made a quip, and then Kurotsuchi had to come in for the save. 

Without her he would have been dead.



> I was watching the fight where Kurotsuchi punched Kinshiki right through a giant goddamn tree branch.


-Which she did while he was preoccupied fighting Chojuro.
-Which didn't do any damage to him



> I was watching the fight where Chojuro and Kurotsuchi's combination technique bound Kinshiki before he could react even though he'd just landed on the ground.


He couldn't react because he was caught off guard by Sasuke shattering his weapon which he was going to use to end Chojuro & Kurotsuchi. 



> I was watching the fight where Darui was repeatedly closing the distance between himself and Momoshiki and clashing with him.


Darui performed worse then Chujoro, and Kurotsuchi's combined effort.
At least they managed to tag Kinshiki, and immobilize him. Momoshiki only felt cornered when Naruto & Sasuke joined the fray.



> Should I keep going?


Yes, you should. The Kage are in no way comparable to Naruto & Sasuke so I'd like to know what has people thinking otherwise. 
Your account of what happened is also completely wrong. 

>Says the Kage individually kept up with Momoshiki & Kinshiki. 

False. Unless you believe Chojuro + Kurotsuchi = Individual fighting. 

Chojuro went at it and bled. 
Kurotsuchi used Chojuro's distraction then landed a hit.

Sasuke  (who *"wasn't actually doing anything"*) broke Kinshiki's chakra weapon. 


After that he went on to Momoshiki who Darui didn't do anything to.

All this assistance from Sasuke, and with one another yet you talk about what the Kage accomplished individually and without Sasuke.  



> *Who implied otherwise* and what's your point?


Clearly you did. Saying what Sasuke did wasn't impressive, which is fine. But then taking it a step further portraying the Kage as individual matches against Momoshiki, and Kinshiki. 



> I'm saying Kinshiki isn't fast enough to blitz them


Kinshiki didn't even move at his top speed. 
We saw what it looks like when he does at the beginning of the film; when his body was emanating purple light.



> You forgot to post the first page in which Sasuke and Shin rush at each other, followed by Shin throwing his blades at Sasuke before Sasuke can even close the distance between them.


They were in the air 
They can't run on air. WTF!?

Sasuke jumped up. Shin jumped down. 

This is what rushing looks like.


You know, when your feet are moving and propelling you forward? Not when you're free falling through the sky. 



> Which is actually completely irrelevant considering that Sasuke is more than capable of blitzing an opponent who doesn't have the sufficient reflexes to react _without_ killing him/her.


Oh yes. Because knocking Shin out will give up answers. /sarcasm 

Already explained that he never "rushed" Shin.



> His weaker eye power was the ONLY explanation posited for his relatively weaker performance, but I don't see how that would affect his speed.


Chakra exhaustion has physical affects such as reaction time. This was shown in the manga. 

But besides that, his speed wasn't the issue. He wasn't expecting Shin to grab his sword as evident by the exclamation mark.



> If he has enough chakra to utilize Katon and Ameno, he certainly has enough chakra to utilize his Shunshin.


Of course. How do you think he leaped that high?



> I'd estimate around five seconds, but certainly more than two seconds at least. Do you believe god tiers aren't capable of closing a *twenty to thirty-ish meter gap in three to five seconds?*


And you guesstimated the distance in a two dimensional drawing how?



> I already did. Please quit inappropriately using the word "please" in a piss-poor attempt to sound condescending.


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## Trojan (Mar 23, 2016)

Even if the Kage did whatever the hell they did

Why the fuck does that prove Kinshiki's being weak rather than the Kages being strong?

This is so retarded. 

By this logic

"Madara is weak because he was defeated by Hashirama"

Or does that logic apply to everyone except for those 2 clowns?


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## The Undying (Mar 23, 2016)

Zef said:


> So Chojuro gets injured, and you equate that to *"keeping up with Momoshiki & Kinshiki"?*




How is Chojuro's injury relevant to whether he can keep up with Kinshiki's speed? Are you incapable of understanding basic words or are you just deliberately pretending to have a third-grade level of language comprehension?

I responded to someone who claimed that Kinshiki was able to keep up with the speed of Sasuke. The entire argument was solely about speed. My point from the beginning was that Kinshiki "keeping up with Sasuke's speed" isn't even slightly impressive considering that a much weaker Kage managed to react to AND evade Kinshiki's assault at points. That's what happened. You can't get around it, you can't attempt to justify it with shitty half-baked excuses, it directly happened on-screen and that's all there is to it.

It's honestly pretty simple. Kinshiki couldn't blitz Chojuro even when he was focusing his attacks solely on him and Chojuro blatantly dodged his first strike, just as Darui repeatedly caught up to base Momoshiki. They didn't use Sasuke's assistance for either of these specific feats.



> Him not dying is not justification for people to hype him to ridiculous levels. After Kinshiki slashed him he halted his assault, Chojuro made a quip, and then Kurotsuchi had to come in for the save.




Except I'm not hyping Chojuro at all, where are you getting this shit? Is it because I'm not wanking Kinshiki to overblown proportions because he's an Outsutsuki?

I could grant you that Kinshiki paused for a moment to let Chojuro have his quip and it STILL wouldn't have a modicum of relevance to the feats that occurred beforehand. I'm not even sure where you get the idea I'm implying Chojuro can fight on par with Kinshiki simply because I said he could physically _keep up_ with his speed. Same goes in regards to my point about Darui and Momoshiki. You're conflating two entirely different things and utterly missing the point.

I mean if your intention is to get me to concede that Kinshiki would easily destroy any of the Kages besides Naruto individually, I have absolutely no problem doing that. They'd struggle just to keep their defense up and he would plain overwhelm them before they get to attempt anything significant. That doesn't mean he's capable of _blitzing_ them though.



> Kinshiki didn't even move at his top speed.
> We saw what it looks like when he does at the beginning of the film; when his body was emanating purple light.




Both Kinshiki and Sasuke had lightning trails behind them whenever they clashed in that sequence. By that logic, Sasuke only moved at top speed at the beginning of the film and not at all when he fought Momoshiki. That's asinine reasoning. It's called a fancy visual effect that the lead animator for that sequence happened to prefer.




> They were in the air
> They can't run on air. WTF!?
> 
> Sasuke jumped up. Shin jumped down.
> ...




Holy shit, is English even your first language? Genuinely curious.

You understand that "rush" by definition constitutes everything from quick sprinting to dashing through the air, right? 

It's a word that refers more to the speed at which someone moves, not running specifically. "Dash" and "zip" are literally synonyms.

Are you still in high school or did you drop out?



> Oh yes. Because knocking Shin out will give up answers. /sarcasm




When did I mention anything about how Sasuke planned to interrogate Shin? Are you clinically retarded too?

My point is that Sasuke's method of incapacitating Shin shouldn't have any bearing on whether he was trying to blitz. He rushed/dashed at Shin and Shin reacted, end of story.




> Chakra exhaustion has physical affects such as reaction time.




You're reaching hard here. Sasuke not having enough chakra to maintain his higher-level Doujutsu doesn't mean he was literally _exhausted of chakra_. His skirmish doesn't give the slightest indication that his base reactions were stifled.

Literally the only official reason provided for his lackluster performance against Shin was that he simply couldn't access his Mangekyou and tomoe Rinnegan. Naruto even reinforces that notion with a simple "That explains things!". Anything beyond that is speculation and conjecture.

And just in case you're misinterpreting me again since you can't read a proper sentence, I'm not arguing that Sasuke wouldn't stomp the shit out of Shin if he had access to his full repertoire. I'm also not arguing that any of the other Gokage hold a candle to either Naruto or Sasuke.



> But besides that, his speed wasn't the issue.




You're right, Sasuke's speed wasn't an issue for Shin at all.



> And you guesstimated the distance in a two dimensional drawing how?




The same way anyone guesstimates distance in any manga? You observe the size of one character relative to the size of the other one on the panel and adjust for height.

I find it beyond hilarious that I'm even having to explain basic calcs to you.


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## Trojan (Mar 24, 2016)

> That Ootsusuki cut a Shinju in two; the resulting shockwave sent everyone flying. The Kage's ain't shit compared to him.



I got a good chuckle reading this (or rather what you were respnding to)

People are still fapping over how Madara's PS sent the Kages flying and cut the mountains top. They did not
leave anything to fap over it except mentioned it.

But when someone else does a greater feat or at the very least equal to it (sending the Kages flying and cut the Tree in half) it's all of a sudden not impressive because it's not Asspulldara or Hashirama who pulled it off!


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## StarWanderer (Mar 24, 2016)

Kinshiki speedblitz him.

I am laughing of those who puts EMS Madara on God level. He is the second strongest shinobi in history after Hashirama and that's if we do not include people with Rikudou's chakra. But if we include Kinshiki, Hamura, Toneri and other God tiers, then Madara gets f*cked.


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## Android (Mar 24, 2016)

Hussain said:


> Even if the Kage did whatever the hell they did
> 
> Why the fuck does that prove Kinshiki's being weak rather than the Kages being strong?
> 
> ...


i allready toled you hussain 

gaara and darui were fodders during the war 

so it's kinda hard to take that image from people's mind 

it's like that junky guy who was doing crimes and shit 

even after being rehabilitated and turning into a good guy , people will always see him as the junky scumbag he was


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## shade0180 (Mar 24, 2016)

> more than 10 years passed
> people think Chojuro and the rest are still chuunin level

what happened with gaining experience and getting stronger after an appropriate timeskip?


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## Android (Mar 24, 2016)

more than 14 years actually 

yes , but it seems that this logic doesn't count when it's against shodai and mads


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## Itachi san88 (Mar 24, 2016)

Oh boy, the duo Hussain/cctr9 are back 

Get ready to see the same posts about Hashirama/Madara in all threads


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## shade0180 (Mar 24, 2016)

Naruto went from zero to number 1 in like a month. this guys have 10+ years


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## Isaiah13000 (Mar 24, 2016)

Actually Kishimoto confirmed that it's been 15 years since the War Arc and Naruto Gaiden, and the Boruto film takes place a few months after Gaiden. So all of these characters have had 15+ years of being able to train and hone their skills yet that's completely thrown out the window for some odd reason. Source?


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## The Undying (Mar 24, 2016)

Zef said:


> If he could keep up with Kinshiki's speed he wouldn't have been bleeding now would he?




Did you actually watch the fight or are you also visually impaired on top of being illiterate and retarded? 

Chojuro dodged the first attack and guarded against the second one, but Kinshiki's subsequent strike knocked his blade away and sliced his chest.  Kinshiki didn't "blitz" or outspeed him at ANY point, he just overpowered him.




> This is the speed Sasuke competed with. This is in not the same speed Kinshiki went after the Kage using.




I'll ask you again: 

Did Sasuke have a lightning trail blazing behind him when he teamed up with Naruto and ran towards Super Momoshiki? No?

Then the lightning trails aren't indicative of top speed.

Are you just going by how fast Kinshiki _looked_ during his skirmish with Sasuke? Because he also looks like he's going full speed when he rushes over to Momoshiki after breaking away from Chojuro and Kurotsuchi's restraints (this is before he slices the shinju tree), yet his speedy-looking attack ends up getting dodged by - you guessed it - Gaara and Darui. Can't wait to read your excuse for that one.





> We saw how he easily dispatched of their restraints, and sent them flying when he got serious. Their physical stats aren't comparable to his whatsoever.




>easily

Look, I'm aware that you have problems with comprehension, sight, and reading, but you realize he struggled for several seconds and damn near destroyed his arm in the process of breaking out of those restraints, right?

Afterwards when he zips over to Momshiki, his next attack is evaded by the remaining Kage. Then when he slices the tree trunk, we just see him overpower them using brute force. This is nothing new, in fact it's the entire reason the Gokage are unable to compete with Kinshiki. His raw strength is too much for them to handle.




> Kinshiki never went for a blitz.
> 
> Now I understand why morons point towards Shin as an example of Naruto & Sasuke being *"slow"*.




Wait, so you're saying Kinshiki deliberately went _easy_ on them? 

Now I understand why morons say "B-but he wasn't going all out f-for some reason!" whenever we see a character getting dodged and not outspeeding the opponent to the point of just blitzing them. 

Can you stop? The suggestion that Kinshiki actively allowed himself to be dodged, bound, and on the receiving end of a battered arm despite clearly trying to kill the two Kages is laughable.



> Sasuke didn't try using genjutsu on Shin. Does that mean genjutsu doesn't work on Shin? Of course not. This type of logic is idiotic.




Nobody knows how effective Shin's Genjutsu defenses are, so that's a worthless analogy from the get-go.




> You're essentially saying Chojuro = Sasuke in speed which is complete bullshit.




I'm saying that Sasuke's base movement speed (excluding Ameno) isn't above top tier in itself when non-god tiers have reacted to it. Ergo, being able to "keep up" with Sasuke's footspeed isn't a super remarkable feat on par with Juubi Jins. This has nothing to do with "hyping Chojuro up" and everything to do with you being too mentally handicapped to understand what an example is.




> Sasuke moves at speeds which ignites the ground.




Funny how he didn't ignite the ground when he fought Kinshiki. Funny how Kinshiki wasn't igniting the ground in that fight either. What's your next excuse?

"Hurrrr he ignited the ground" isn't even a fucking argument, just like "durrrr lightning trails". Speed is judged in relation to other characters, not by stupid visual effects.



> That Ootsusuki cut a Shinju in two; the resulting shockwave sent everyone flying. The Kage's ain't shit compared to him.
> In correlation to Naruto & Sasuke he's weak.
> 
> In correlation to the Kage he's strong.
> ...




This part is even funnier because I agree that Sasuke is superior to Kinshiki who is in turn superior to the Gokage. You're so insanely fucking stupid that you repeatedly start deflecting my points to an overall strength/versus argument even after I keep mentioning over and over that I'm just talking about speed.




> If Sasuke is pressured to use his instantaneous space/time technique then you can bet your ass Kinshiki is capable of blitzing the Kage.




You mean like how Sasuke was pressured to use Ameno against Shin because his sword strike wasn't fast enough to prevent Shin from blocking and catching it? Shin can blitz the Kages now? 



> This is called baseless assumption, A.K.A horrible fanfic.




>believes that some random lightning trail represents Sasuke and Kinshiki's full speed despite neither character ever using them again after the fight
>believes that Kinshiki "easily" broke out of his restraints
>believes that Kinshiki wasn't REALLY trying to kill the Kages
>accuses me of baseless assumptions

A.K.A. horrible fanfiction.




> It is




Then I apologize for giving you too much credit by assuming it wasn't your first language, you're just too idiotic to understand really basic words and definitions. "Rush" refers to the speed at which someone moves, not the physical act of running. Its definitions include "moving with urgent haste", "dashing toward someone or something", "a sudden quick movement", etc.

A fighter jet can rush through the air, for example.

This is honestly too hilarious. Did they put you in the special ed classes whenever you took english/reading?



> Because your insistence in saying Sasuke rushed at him through the air, and as a result should have blitzed him is sounding increasingly ridiculous.




Your insistence that several blitz moments in the manga _don't_ portray a character leaping/dashing to the opponent in the air is already as ridiculous as it can possibly sound.

KCM Naruto used a Shunshin blitz in the air and said blitz is noted to be faster than his foot speed.



> Furthermore, Shin reacted by throwing blades




That's my point. He reacted and then threw blades at Sasuke before Sasuke could even close the gap between them.

What does Shin not thrusting his sword at the start of the skirmish have to do with my argument? If anything, it reinforces my argument since Shin didn't even take action until Sasuke already dashed at him.




> His eye powers weakened because he had expended so much chakra. He explains so himself.
> 
> This is evident by the lack of Susano'o before that scene.
> Susano'o is a chakra construct. He couldn't use Susano'o at the time which means he was low on chakra. It's really that simple.




I already said that Sasuke was too low on chakra to maintain his Mangekyou and tomoe Rinnegan (although he wasn't low enough to be Ninjutsu-disabled apparently). I also said he wasn't completely exhausted of it. I know that your likely inbred brain is having a tough time discerning between them, but there is in fact a difference.

There was nothing implied in Gaiden about Sasuke having stifled reactions or speed, so you're just making that part up.




> Yeah, the professionals in OBD that pixilate panels, and shit to form calcs. Not you with your naked eye.




Not even going to argue on this point anymore since you aren't even familiar with how basic distance calcs between two characters are measured. It's not rocket science.


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## KeyofMiracles (Mar 25, 2016)

Isaiah13000 said:


> 1. Well, he's already superior to her in terms of physical prowess and CQC. He'd become stronger than her because he could absorb all of her shit and eventually surpass her and kill her. Her using her gigantic ETSB would spell suicide for her because Momoshiki would just absorb that shit, become God, and then one-shot her with it after draining all of her chakra.
> 
> 2. So what you're telling me is that you believe that Juudara and SPSM Naruto's chakra cloaks are weaker than EMS Madara's PS? Even though Madara's PS is only on par with the Bijuu in general, whilst Juudara and SPSM Naruto's cloaks are powered by the chakra of all of the Bijuu simultaneously and Six Paths Senjutsu. Seriously? Are you mentally challenged?
> 
> 3. No, Kurama did that when wielding Madara's PS.



1. Not only can you not even prove part of this, it's irrelevant. If he has to absorb her power to become stronger than her then it goes back to him being a bad match up.  But I'm not here to debate Kaguya vs. Momoshiki so I couldn't care less.

2.  How fucking moronic is this stupid kid going to get? 

A. Naruto and  JJ Madara being stronger than EMS Madara means that their full power>his full power. Not that all their physical stats>>>>>Anything any weaker character can pull out. This isn't DBZ. If you want to debate like an idiot and debate like this is DBZ then you can go find a forum where they talk about DBZ. It'd be fitting since half of the posters here use garbage logic like this. 

B. Madara has been damaged by things weaker than what Susanoo has canonically survived. Same goes for Naruto. 

C. I can use the same idiotic logic and say that EMS Madara's weakest Susanoo>Sasuke's strongest Susanoo because Madara's chakra>Sasuke's even though the Manga shows that this is blatantly false. I can use the same shitty logic and say that Boruto Movie Sasuke's body is more durable than PS, or that his Ribcage is more durable even though it was raped by Momoshiki's poverty ass rock attack.


Where are the durability feats? Oh wait


They don't fucking exist. 

But oh wait 

This is the friend that thinks the sword that bounced off of Ay's neck will cut through PS.  K-I--L-L Y-O-U-R-S-E-L-F    

3. No moron, Kurama doesn't do shit w/ Madara's Iso Susanoo but fire Bijuu Dama. If you woukd open your eyes for once in your life you would see that the hands swinging the blades are the ones created by Susanoo.


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