# Who can beat Adult Sasuke in a taijutsu fight?



## Ersa (Sep 26, 2015)

I'm curious.

I mean the guy was kicking a Shinju-infused Rinnegan user around like a doll and tearing up the landscape with kicks and punches. The only other characters I can recall that did with purely taijutsu are RSM Naruto and Gai.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 27, 2015)

Only Kaguya, Naruto, and Eight Gated Guy. They're the only ones who can compete with his physical parameters now.


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## Jad (Sep 27, 2015)

Gai and Lee. I saw parts of the movie. Those villians are jobbers. You're telling me the anime team wouldn't have made Lee pull the same crap had he been included in the fight?  I think we overrated Adult Sasuke and Naruto rad bit. They weren't doing anything manga Shinji (the one Sakura blasted) seemed hard of keeping up with in pure Tai. That's just my assumption of how I'd see the anine team that did the movie make a Lee and Gai look like. Anine team makes everone look 100x better than in the manga


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 27, 2015)

Jad said:


> Gai and Lee. I saw parts of the movie. Those villians are jobbers. You're telling me the anime team wouldn't have made Lee pull the same crap had he been included in the fight?  I think we overrated Adult Sasuke and Naruto rad bit. They weren't doing anything manga Shinji (the one Sakura blasted) seemed hard of keeping up with in pure Tai. That's just my assumption of how I'd see the anine team that did the movie make a Lee and Gai look like. Anine team makes everone look 100x better than in the manga


...how are we overrating them? The impacts of their blows were uprooting the entire Shinju by accident, creating new mountain ranges and mountains and were causing DBZ level of destruction. Lee needs the Eighth Gate to do that and already put down Guy needing the Eighth Gate.

And Kishimoto wrote that.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 27, 2015)

Any Sage Mode user, V2 Jinchuuriki, or Gated Lee/Gai should beat Sasuke handily in Taijutsu. 3rd and 4th Raikage, too.


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## Ersa (Sep 27, 2015)

When did Gai or Lee show RSM Naruto level speed though?


Hurr durr movie feats is also kinda silly, if that was the case we'd have to label DB Super as non-canon even though the author is behind it.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 27, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> When did Gai or Lee show RSM Naruto level speed though?


Guy in the Eighth Gate is at RSM Level speed. Remember, with Yagai, his kicks were warping space and time.


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## Jackalinthebox (Sep 27, 2015)

I don't see how Gai or Lee would be able to stand a chance without opening at least the 6th Gate


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## Jad (Sep 27, 2015)

You're telling me the anime team didn't have a hand in putting their overexagerrated spin on the fight scenes? I believe everyone the anime team get to include in fights would look like dbz characters in their own way. I mean kishimoto hardly makes anyone do a back flip in the manga while running but in the anime they'd be doing triple summersolts and amazingly choreographed fights by professionals, like they did with Avatar air bender cartoon series. They hire Martial artists to actually play out their moves. This movie is no different to how the anime team approach the canon storyline with their added visuals. If you want to include anime feats from a canon medium you have to accept that everyone would look amazing. That's why its dodgy to compare manga and anime when it comes to the battledome, because of moving visuals. Anyway my post was an assumption of what I believe. Right or wrong.


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## Ersa (Sep 27, 2015)

If we're debating on Naruto we tend to use canon Naruto sources.

The movie's screenplay was written by the author and thus it's a canon source.

It's pretty simple really.

And no, I don't think the anime exaggerated when characters in the manga started casually leveling country sized meteors.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 27, 2015)

Jad said:


> You're telling me the anime team didn't have a hand in putting their overexagerrated spin on the fight scenes? I believe everyone the anime team get to include in fights would look like dbz characters in their own way. I mean kishimoto hardly makes anyone do a back flip in the manga while running but in the anime they'd be doing triple summersolts and amazingly choreographed fights by professionals, like they did with Avatar air bender cartoon series. They hire Martial artists to actually play out their moves. This movie is no different to how the anime team approach the canon storyline with their added visuals. If you want to include anime feats from a canon medium you have to accept that everyone would look amazing. That's why its dodgy to compare manga and anime when it comes to the battledome. Anyway my post was an assumption of what I believe. Right or wrong.


Kishimoto said he wrote the entire movie, Jad. He put in those scenes, the anime team just animated them.


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## ARGUS (Sep 27, 2015)

Kaguya absolutely shits on him in taijutsu, 
RSM naruto beats him rather easily through his RSM strength and faster shunshin, 

and 8th gate guy beats him to a pulp 
sasuke can react to him rather easily but amenos cooldown means that he gets kicked in the gut and shat on 

FP Momoshiki beats him in taijutsu as shown, he was able to react to his blind side ameno strike rather easily 

DR JJ madara can _Possibly_ beat him in a taijutsu skirmish as well, sasuke was mainly able to pressure him through ameno, take that away and increase the chakra potency of madara (which increases his speed) and he can take him down, though i can be wrong on this one 

any one below DR JJ madara in taijutsu skill gets clowned with no difficulty whatsoever


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## Jad (Sep 27, 2015)

There are more names placed at the end of the credits for this movie  than there is to a chapter of a manga. Unless you saw Kishimoto hand draw the fight scenes than I'm allowed to assume that the anine team could have exagerrated parts of the movie. That's the problem with Manga and anime in the battledome.


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## Ersa (Sep 27, 2015)

Let me give you a definition of screenplay.



> A screenplay or script is a written work by screenwriters for a film, video game, or television program. These screenplays can be original works or adaptations from existing pieces of writing. In them, the movement, actions, expression, and dialogues of the characters are also narrated.



It's a shame canon sources don't fit your biases unfortunately.

That's the problem with Manga and anime in the battledome. But I understand perfectly. It's why people can't accept Gaara is fodder or that Itachi is the king.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 27, 2015)

Desert Gaara still mid diffs Itachi, Ersatz


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## Amol (Sep 27, 2015)

Any God tier character.
I have not seen Boruto The Movie so I am rather sceptical about one handed taijustu of Sasuke.
But still he is buffed by RS chakra.
So it shouldn't be easy to take him down.


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## Icegaze (Sep 27, 2015)

Jad said:


> Gai and Lee. I saw parts of the movie. Those villians are jobbers. You're telling me the anime team wouldn't have made Lee pull the same crap had he been included in the fight?  I think we overrated Adult Sasuke and Naruto rad bit. They weren't doing anything manga Shinji (the one Sakura blasted) seemed hard of keeping up with in pure Tai. That's just my assumption of how I'd see the anine team that did the movie make a Lee and Gai look like. Anine team makes everone look 100x better than in the manga



Where can I watch the full movie ?
Please someone tell me 

At OP gaara would beat sasuke in taijutsu


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## Altair21 (Sep 27, 2015)

Jad said:


> You're telling me the anime team didn't have a hand in putting their overexagerrated spin on the fight scenes? I believe everyone the anime team get to include in fights would look like dbz characters in their own way. I mean kishimoto hardly makes anyone do a back flip in the manga while running but in the anime they'd be doing triple summersolts and amazingly choreographed fights by professionals, like they did with Avatar air bender cartoon series. They hire Martial artists to actually play out their moves. This movie is no different to how the anime team approach the canon storyline with their added visuals. If you want to include anime feats from a canon medium you have to accept that everyone would look amazing. That's why its dodgy to compare manga and anime when it comes to the battledome, because of moving visuals. Anyway my post was an assumption of what I believe. Right or wrong.



You certainly weren't singing these songs when Lee was busting Konoha size meteors in The Last. 



Amol said:


> Any God tier character.
> I have not seen Boruto The Movie so I am rather sceptical about one handed taijustu of Sasuke.
> But still he is buffed by RS chakra.
> So it shouldn't be easy to take him down.




Well then you should watch some of the leaked scenes because Sasuke's best taijutsu feats come from that movie.


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## Arles Celes (Sep 27, 2015)

RSM Naruto and Momoshiki.

I'm not fully sure about Kaguya as she is mostly ninjutsu dependent though she blocked some hits from Naruto's RSM clones and shown nice durability.

8th Gate Guy maybe too but I think that his time limit might be his undoing against Sasuke as the last gate gradually destroys his body and his life expires.

Still, we have seen more of Sasuke's amazing sword skills rather than taijutsu tbh. His speed and strength are quite noteworthy though...

When it comes to swordsmanship he might truly be second to none.


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## Ghost (Sep 27, 2015)

Kimimaro low diffs.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

this thread is fucking hilarious

the *Fourth raikage* being able to stand a chance against somebody who kept pace with RSM Naruto



Jesus, I've read some stupid shit in my time here, but that one just takes the cake

And now apparently canon movie feats don't count because Jad thinks they're over exaggerated

Hey bud. If the movie's canon, that means everything that happened in it, destruction included, counts. This is a fucking manga where giant purple warrior can cleave mountains with the shockwave of its swing. How do you go about calling feats over exaggerated by comparison?


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 27, 2015)

who could match or possibly beat sasuke taijutsu wise? 

naruto, madara, hashirama, kinshiki, momoshiki(pre kinshiki absorption).

their taijutsu feats in the movie, while looking cool, arent out of line with whats shown in the manga. its just generic "top tier strength".
hashirama and madaras cqc produced destruction almost comparable to the surrounding mountains.

madaras_(and by extension, hashirama) _physical strength is capable of knocking back biju.


dont know why people are saying that sasuke would keep up with lee or even gai in taijutsu especially in the 8th gate.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

when has Hashirama or Madara 'produced cqc destroying surrounding mountains' ever

Like, ever

Knocking back a Bijū is still not even remotely comparable to the destruction wrought by Naruto/Sasuke just by _running_ or kicking Momoshiki


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 27, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> when has Hashirama or Madara 'produced cqc destroying surrounding mountains' ever
> 
> Like, ever





> Knocking back a Bijū is still not even remotely comparable to the destruction wrought by Naruto/Sasuke just by _running_ or kicking Momoshiki


sasuke chipped the shinju and naruto punched momoshiki through the rock formation. 

affected area of shinju.


momoshiki compared to shinju.


of course knocking back a biju with physical strength would put madara and hashirama within that strength range.


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## Ryuzaki (Sep 27, 2015)

Ersatz said:


> When did Gai or Lee show RSM Naruto level speed though?
> 
> Hurr durr movie feats is also kinda silly, if that was the case we'd have to label DB Super as non-canon even though the author is behind it.



6th Gated Gai was able to move fast enough to move Kakashi out of the way from a truthseeker when it was less than an arm's length away from Kakashi's face. 

I'd say that qualifies him.


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

We don't see Madara or Hashirama in that panel; for all we know they could have accomplished that destruction with their giant constructs, i.e., Perfect Susanoo or 
Mokūjin. 


sasuke chipped the shinju and naruto punched momoshiki through the rock formation.





> affected area of shinju.
> 
> 
> momoshiki compared to shinju.
> ...



Naruto and Sasuke were tearing up the landscape by running. Them clashing into Momoshiki headfirst kicked up more rock than the entirety of the God Tree.

If you think simply knocking back a Bijū qualifies Madara or Hashirama for those insane physical feats, I have nothing more to say to you. As it stands, nothing qualifies either for being physically stronger than regular ol'  Bijū Mode Naruto, let alone an adult Rikūdo Sage Mode Naruto.


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## Crow (Sep 27, 2015)

7th and 8th gated Guy
Lee gated
Naruto


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## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 27, 2015)

Why do people keep mentioning Gai ? Op says "who can beat Sasuke in a taijutsu *fight.*"
8 gated Gai plays with Sasuke like a football before he kicks him to the orbit.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 27, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> We don't see Madara or Hashirama in that panel; for all we know they could have accomplished that destruction with their giant constructs, i.e., Perfect Susanoo or Mokūjin.


and yet, simply based on the panel and what they used prior, nothing of that sort could have been used.
-both of those constructs were long ago destroyed by quad bijudama.
-if hashirama was using any sort of large scale wood release, where is the debris and remains?
-madara was stated to be using preta path to absorb hashiramas chakra, which he cant use in susano.
-there isnt even any indication that katon was used due to the lack of flames in the clash.
-the rods in hashiramas back indicate nothing more than a cqc skirmish unless you think that hashirama was on the mokujin and madara still somehow flanked him.

madara and hashirama were clashing in this fashion


which then escalated into this.






> sasuke chipped the shinju and naruto punched momoshiki through the rock formation.
> 
> Naruto and Sasuke were tearing up the landscape by running. Them clashing into Momoshiki headfirst *kicked up more rock than the entirety of the God Tree.*


the bold is blatant lie and irrelevant since it was formed by naruto, sasuke *and* momoshiki running at each other.

the rock that was formed wasnt anywhere near the size of a full god tree.



> If you think simply knocking back a Bijū qualifies Madara or Hashirama for those insane physical feats, I have nothing more to say to you. As it stands, nothing qualifies either for being physically stronger than regular ol'  Bijū Mode Naruto, let alone an adult Rikūdo Sage Mode Naruto.


all you have to do is compare the area of the shinju that sasukes kick chipped to how big momoshiki is to the shinju when he is standing on the stump. 

how big is the effected area of the shinju compared to the biju that madara and hashirama can send flying with their strength?
the rest is common sense, but apparently common sense isnt so common .


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## ATastyMuffin (Sep 27, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> and yet, simply based on the panel and what they used prior, nothing of that sort could have been used.
> -both of those constructs were long ago destroyed by quad bijudama.



Why can't they? Is it not possible for Madara or Hashirama to simply reform those constructs?

Which, you know, isn't exactly impossible given they're reanimated corpses with *infinite chakra*? 



> -if hashirama was using any sort of large scale wood release, where is the debris and remains?



There are plenty of possibilities. Absorbed by Madara's Rinnegan? Simply desummoned by Hashirama? Destroyed by Perfect Susanoo?

I mean, this is like asking where as Shinsūsenju after Hashirama put the Kyūbi out of commission in their Valley of the End fight. 



> -madara was stated to be using preta path to absorb hashiramas chakra, which he cant use in susano.
> -there isnt even any indication that katon was used due to the lack of flames in the clash.
> -the rods in hashiramas back indicate nothing more than a cqc skirmish unless you think that hashirama was on the mokujin and madara still somehow flanked him.



We have *zero idea* when exactly those rods were placed in Hashirama's back; you do realize that there was an entire gap of unaccounted events in which Madara and Hashirama were fighting that we didn't see, while Naruto/Sasuke vs. Obito was shown to us instead?

That is the crux of the issue. We don't know anything that was happening between them after their little talk under the God Tree. So how on earth can you claim they did _anything_ with CQC when we're not shown any of it?

Are you being purposefully dense?

Those explosions that Naruto saw have *zero* evidence of having been done by close-quarters combat.

There is also a gap of time where Naruto sees said explosions, starts forming his giant Rasenshuriken and throws it. For all we know, during said period of time Madara and Hashirama could have been fighting with their giant constructs, Madara starts absorbing once his Susanoo is overpowered, and the Wooden Dragon comes out.

Like how I'm making up scenarios? That's the point. We're never shown them fighting. So literally anything could have happened.

Ergo, you claiming those explosions were done by them fighting with nothing but hands and feet is baseless.

The end.



> the bold is blatant lie and irrelevant since it was formed by naruto, sasuke *and* momoshiki running at each other.
> 
> the rock that was formed wasnt anywhere near the size of a full god tree.



We literally see the rock that's kicked up is larger than the stump itself.

That's from them running at each other.

We've seen Madara running at full speed, against Naruto and Sai. Didn't even come close to what adult Naruto/Sasuke performed casually.

We also saw Madara dashing at the Bijū. Didn't even come close to what adult Naruto/Sasuke performed, *casually[/B[.

Is any of this getting through, or are you just sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring it like you usually do?*


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 27, 2015)

ATastyMuffin said:


> Why can't they? Is it not possible for Madara or Hashirama to simply reform those constructs?
> 
> Which, you know, isn't exactly impossible given they're reanimated corpses with *infinite chakra*?


nope it wasnt possible, given how hashiramas tenketsu were pierced limiting the amount of chakra he had to the amount he molded prior to getting pierced by rods. in laymans terms, the moment madara pierced hashiramas tenketsu, his reserves became finite.

after susano is destroyed in its entirety, the user cannot simply reform it.




> There are plenty of possibilities. Absorbed by Madara's Rinnegan? Simply desummoned by Hashirama? Destroyed by Perfect Susanoo?
> 
> I mean, this is like asking where as Shinsūsenju after Hashirama put the Kyūbi out of commission in their Valley of the End fight.


now im going to ask for the evidence that mokuton can be absorbed by preta path when madara had to resort to susano to combat wood release.
hashirama stated that madara was specifically absorbing chakra, not his ninjutsu.

the only instance where that phrase can be applied to is this.


now i will ask again, where are the remains of this wood release that hashirama was supposedly using?



> We have *zero idea* when exactly those rods were placed in Hashirama's back; you do realize that there was an entire gap of unaccounted events in which Madara and Hashirama were fighting that we didn't see, while Naruto/Sasuke vs. Obito was shown to us instead?
> 
> That is the crux of the issue. We don't know anything that was happening between them after their little talk under the God Tree. So how on earth can you claim they did _anything_ with CQC when we're not shown any of it?
> 
> ...


thats nice and all, but you still havent shown any remains for this mokuton that was supposedly used, therefore any claims that mokuton was used prior to the wood dragon is complete fanfiction.



> We literally see the rock that's kicked up is larger than the stump itself.
> 
> That's from them running at each other.
> 
> ...


*
yes i know. the rock was taller than the stump, not the full god tree.

you're telling me that madara alone didnt do something that took naruto, sasuke and momoshiki to do? 
based on madaras feat of sending the biju flying with physical strength both him and hashirama can replicate narutos feat of punching momoshiki through the rock formation and sasukes feat of chipping the shinju.
how do we know that hashirama and madara can replicate naruto and sasukes feats based on knocking back the biju? 
-measure the area of the shinju that sasukes kick chipped off.
-measure how big momoshiki is compared to the shinju when he stands on the stump.

Is any of this getting through, or are you just sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring it like you usually do?*


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## Zef (Sep 27, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Any Sage Mode user, V2 Jinchuuriki, or Gated Lee/Gai should beat Sasuke handily in Taijutsu. 3rd and 4th Raikage, too.



Lol, no.


Anyone who isn't as fast/strong as RSM Naruto gets stomped in a Taijutsu bout with Sasuke.


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## Zef (Sep 27, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> who could match or possibly beat sasuke taijutsu wise?
> 
> naruto, *madara, hashirama,* kinshiki, momoshiki(pre kinshiki absorption).
> 
> their taijutsu feats in the movie, *while looking cool, arent out of line with whats shown in the manga. its just generic "top tier strength".*



Stop.......just stop 

When Hashirama, and Madara move at speeds that:

-Singe the ground
-Uproot the ground
-Cause miniature hills, and mountains from the ground


like shown in these gifs



then you can compare them. *"Generic top tier strength"* my ass. These are two god tiers facing off against an Ootsusuki.  Hashirama got blitzed by JJ Obito who's the weakest of the god tier.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 27, 2015)

Zef said:


> Stop.......just stop
> 
> When Hashirama, and Madara move at speeds that:
> 
> ...


naruto, sasuke and momoshiki uprooted the ground moving together, not any of them individually.


> then you can compare them. *"Generic top tier strength"* my ass. These are two god tiers facing off against an Ootsusuki.  Hashirama got blitzed by JJ Obito who's the weakest of the god tier.


hashiramas clone got blitzed, one without sage mode. the same clones easily dispatched by madara using ribcage susano while sitting down.
i guess kurotsuchi and chojuro are "god tier" since they faced an otsutsuki as well, am i right?

try to make an argument that makes sense next time, ok?


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## Nikushimi (Sep 27, 2015)

Movie feats are ass crackers.


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## Nikushimi (Sep 27, 2015)

Zef said:


> Lol, no.
> 
> 
> Anyone who isn't as fast/strong as RSM Naruto gets stomped in a Taijutsu bout with Sasuke.



3rd Raikage isn't much if any faster than the likes of Kakashi, yet he would tank Sasuke's best punch and then liver shot him so hard his torso would explode.



ATastyMuffin said:


> this thread is fucking hilarious
> 
> the *Fourth raikage* being able to stand a chance against somebody who kept pace with RSM Naruto
> 
> ...



4th Raikage would do the same.

Sasuke's speed increase doesn't mean shit. He is still an Uchiha ladyboy that is gonna get rekt if he tries to fight a human Bijuu.


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## Gibbs (Sep 27, 2015)

Where can I watch that movie/OVA that Zef linked?


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## Arles Celes (Sep 27, 2015)

Wasn't this movie though having Kishi more involved than ever and overseeing over everything?

Also, if we attribute to movie and anime stuff going overboard then do we have some stuff from some fillers or added stuff in canon anime episodes where Ei, Bee or Guy show such crazy speed/strength feats? Apart from 8th Gate Guy of course who is a god tier like Naruto and Sasuke.

Even in manga the clash between a tired Naruto and a tired Sasuke at VoTE caused the statue on which they stood to crack. And Sasuke wasn't yet on the same level as RSM Naruto when it comes to physical stats given how they were evenly matched in base using taijutsu...


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## KeyofMiracles (Sep 27, 2015)

He ties with Naruto in CQC prowess, but would get outlasted. He dominates Madara in CQC prowess, but would get outlasted since he can regen. Gai beats him w/ 8th Gate. Kaguya and FP Momoshiki kill him. The rest of the people in the verse get raped.


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## Blu-ray (Sep 27, 2015)

Kaguya, Red Gai, and Transformed Momoshiki flat out beat him while JJ Mads, Juubito, and Naruto outlast. 

Rest of the world dies the most atrocious death.



Gibbs said:


> Where can I watch that movie/OVA that Zef linked?



There ya go.




Arles Celes said:


> RSM Naruto and Momoshiki.
> 
> I'm not fully sure about Kaguya as she is mostly ninjutsu dependent though she blocked some hits from Naruto's RSM clones and shown nice durability.
> 
> ...



Her chakra fists are Taijutsu though, so he still gets his ass beat unfortunately. Plus he can't actually hurt her with raw taijutsu anyway.


Nikushimi said:


> 3rd Raikage isn't much if any faster than the likes of Kakashi, yet he would tank Sasuke's best punch and then liver shot him so hard his torso would explode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How is Kakashi even remotely close to the 3rd Raikage in speed.

Sauce took zero damage from from the likes of Momoshiki's and Kinshiki's physical blows, guys who are above Bijuu in any sense of the word, so no. Ay senior and Ay junior won't so much as tickle him.

Also iirc, you haven't even seen anything of this movie.


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## Zef (Sep 28, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> naruto, sasuke and momoshiki uprooted the ground moving together, not any of them individually.


Momoshiki did nothing, He ran towards Naruto & Sasuke and got pushed back by their sheer strength/speed. If you paid attention to the images I posted you would see what happened. 

This is when Naruto, and Sasuke connect with him.


The ground being elevated happened prior. 

In any case this is a dodge, I thought you said these were generic top tier feats? Now all of a sudden it requires three people to replicate?





> hashiramas clone got blitzed,


Irrelevant since Hashirama placed JJ Obito above him regardless. The feat is valid. 


> one without sage mode.


Also irrelevant, Sage Mode won't make Hashirama move at such speeds.
This is about "generic top tiers" being able to do the aforementioned speed feat.



> the same clones easily dispatched by madara using ribcage susano while sitting down.


Real Hashirama got incapacitated via chakra rods, your point?



> i guess kurotsuchi and chojuro are "god tier" since they faced an otsutsuki as well, am i right?


1)They faced the lesser of the two.
2)Naruto & Sasuke fought the greater of the two powered by the lesser.
3)The Gokage used ninjutsu; not taijutsu.



> try to make an argument that makes sense next time, ok?


Try supporting your stance with facts, and canon material instead of fanfic, and baseless hypotheticals. You are unable to provide feats of Hashirama or the likes being able to equal Naruto, and/or Sasuke. There's nothing to argue. 




Nikushimi said:


> 3rd Raikage isn't much if any faster than the likes of Kakashi,


Stopped right here.
Lel



Gibbs said:


> Where can I watch that movie/OVA that Zef linked?


[YOUTUBE]jKhRVAclCjU[/YOUTUBE]



Arles Celes said:


> Even in manga the clash between a tired Naruto and a tired Sasuke at VoTE caused the statue on which they stood to crack. And Sasuke wasn't yet on the same level as RSM Naruto when it comes to physical stats given how they were evenly matched in base using taijutsu...


Exactly. 


>Shits on anything Madara, and Hashirama displayed taijutsu wise.

------------------
People can say "hurr durr movie" all they want. The same insane feats happened in the manga. Do I have to post scans of JJ Madara getting thrashed by base RSM Naruto's speed? Or the same JJ Madara praising Sasuke's speed before getting bisected? Yet Hashirama and others without Rikudou power of any kind can supposedly keep up with Naruto, and Sasuke?


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## Hachibi (Sep 28, 2015)

Zef said:


> You are unable to provide* fears* of Hashirama or the likes being able to equal Naruto, and/or Sasuke. There's nothing to argue.



Interesting 

OT: He get outlasted by Bijuu-powered God tier (aka JJ Obito/JJ Madara/RSM Naruto) and lose against 8th Gate Gai/Momokinshiki/Kaguya


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## Jad (Sep 28, 2015)

You guys can't tell me I'm wrong for assuming Kishimoto didn't have a part for every single scene of that fight , while the anime team and the director as well, who wasn't Kishimoto, sat on their hands. That anime fight, Naruto and Sasuke vs Monomishki (Shinji?), the video that was posted, is so far beyond what Kishimoto ever drew in his manga. That fight scene shows Taijutsu probably better than anyone drawn in the manga. Hence the reason I believe, if the anime team that did the movie, had included Lee, he would be going pop rocketing like Sasuke and Naruto. Since again, I reckon the anime team would make Konohamaru look top tier in Taijutsu, just like anyone else.

 That's the whole point of what I was saying. I'm saying the anime team would make Lee and Gai look probably better (being Taijutsu masters), instead of the crap Kishimoto draws in his manga. I mean Naruto was flipping, somersaulting, using interlocking grabbling moves, while Sasuke was flipping his sword, throwing kicks while barrell rolling. That's why I think it's sought of unfair to use those anime feats, because while a canon storyline, comes from a different medium that's hard to compare with something like Kishimoto's sole manga chapters he draws alone.


----------



## Garcher (Sep 28, 2015)

Prime Itachi murders him


----------



## Kyu (Sep 28, 2015)

> Who can beat Adult Sasuke in a taijutsu fight?



More often than not?

-Kaguya

-Momoshiki

-Naruto

-Red Gai

-Juubi hosts


----------



## Amol (Sep 28, 2015)

Jad said:


> You guys can't tell me I'm wrong for assuming Kishimoto didn't have a part for every single scene of that fight , while the anime team and the director as well, who wasn't Kishimoto, sat on their hands. That anime fight, Naruto and Sasuke vs Monomishki (Shinji?), the video that was posted, is so far beyond what Kishimoto ever drew in his manga. That fight scene shows Taijutsu probably better than anyone drawn in the manga. Hence the reason I believe, if the anime team that did the movie, had included Lee, he would be going pop rocketing like Sasuke and Naruto. Since again, I reckon the anime team would make Konohamaru look top tier in Taijutsu, just like anyone else.
> 
> That's the whole point of what I was saying. I'm saying the anime team would make Lee and Gai look probably better (being Taijutsu masters), instead of the crap Kishimoto draws in his manga. I mean Naruto was flipping, somersaulting, using interlocking grabbling moves, while Sasuke was flipping his sword, throwing kicks while barrell rolling. That's why I think it's sought of unfair to use those anime feats, because while a canon storyline, comes from a different medium that's hard to compare with something like Kishimoto's sole manga chapters he draws alone.


And yet you yourself conveniently resorts to Lee's movie feats while arguing here 
Bias much ?


----------



## Rai (Sep 28, 2015)

Kaguya

Red Gai

RSM Naruto with Multiple shadow clones.

Momoshiki (with Kinshiki absorbed)

2-3rd eyed Rinnegan JJ Madara


----------



## Panther (Sep 28, 2015)

Kaguya

JJ Madara

Momoshiki

Red Guy

As for Naruto i believe that Base Naruto and above modes would be more than enough to take care of a one armed Sasuke, otherwise Base Sasuke would have wrecked Base Naruto during their final fight instead of Base Naruto reacting to Sasuke's charge and evenly blocking his elbow trust with his own, in the end Base Naruto displayed more physical strength and stamina than Sasuke while being tired from the whole war like Kurama stated. 

How i see it the whole fight against Momo was a big Parallel fetish for kishi by having Naruto and Sasuke take the same pose against Momo like they did against JJ Madara and having Naruto enter a mode, on top of that the whole fight had a similar style of animation like KN6 vs Pain with Momoshiki showing inconsistenties in his speed and reactions during the whole fight.
Sasuke kept up with BSM Naruto's foot/running speed just like Itachi against RM Naruto and Base Bee running the same speed as RM Naruto.

A serious BSM/RSM would wreck Sasuke in taijutsu in mere seconds if he isn't inside his PS.


----------



## blackguyinpinksuit (Sep 28, 2015)

Kaguya(outlast)
RSM naruto(outlast)
Momoshiki with kinshiki absorbed(outlast)
JJ madara(outlast)
Red gai(skywalking and that sheer speed and power of EE and yagai)

Everyone else can just go home.


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## DaVizWiz (Sep 28, 2015)

Kaguya, Juubi, Red Guy, Hagoromo, JJ Hagoromo, TS Hamura, JJ Madara, RSM/RSBM Naruto, 100% Kurama


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Sep 28, 2015)

Zef said:


> [YOUTUBE]jKhRVAclCjU[/YOUTUBE]



I love how Sasuke is faster than BSM NAruto 

What a load of horseshit.

I am glad I never watch the movies.


----------



## Icegaze (Sep 28, 2015)

Erm that level of strength is easily below what war arc Sakura or Tsunade are capable of therefore by proxy 
A and his dad, Sm naruto etc 

That's hardly exaggerated, .

Speed wise well perhaps they would be outclassed . Strength wise hell no . Ability to tank Yh easily all of them would


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 28, 2015)

Zef said:


> Momoshiki did nothing, He ran towards Naruto & Sasuke and got pushed back by their sheer strength/speed. If you paid attention to the images I posted you would see what happened.
> 
> This is when Naruto, and Sasuke connect with him.


and this wasnt what i was talking about. naruto and sasuke pushed momoshiki back with their strength.
in other words, its a coordination feat, which means that neither can do that individually. 


> The ground being elevated happened prior.
> 
> In any case this is a dodge, I thought you said these were generic top tier feats? Now all of a sudden it requires three people to replicate?


naruto, sasuke and momoshiki elevated the ground from their movements, not any of them individually. whats so hard to understand? 






> Irrelevant since Hashirama placed JJ Obito above him regardless. The feat is valid.
> 
> Also irrelevant, Sage Mode won't make Hashirama move at such speeds.
> This is about "generic top tiers" being able to do the aforementioned speed feat.


obitos feat of destroying hashiramas clone is a valid as madaras. in other words, it holds no bearing on how they compare to the original.
hashiramas clone making an admission that obito is stronger than it doesnt help your point either.



> Real Hashirama got incapacitated via chakra rods, your point?


real hashirama defeated madara. im not quite sure what manga you read, because it definitely wasnt masashi kishimotos.



> 1)They faced the lesser of the two.
> 2)Naruto & Sasuke fought the greater of the two powered by the lesser.
> 3)The Gokage used ninjutsu; not taijutsu.


kinshiki being weaker is irrelevant. you said that naruto and sasuke are "god tier" simply because they faced an otsutsuki, so the gokage would be as well. its that simple.

the gokage couldnt use ninjutsu against momoshiki, so im not sure why you even said this. must be your immaculate comprehension skills 

as far as kinshiki goes, they only used ninjutsu in order to bind him. kurotsuchi punched him through the shinjus roots.




> Try supporting your stance with facts, and canon material instead of fanfic, and baseless hypotheticals. You are unable to provide feats of Hashirama or the likes being able to equal Naruto, and/or Sasuke. There's nothing to argue.


i am supporting my arguments with facts however, you lack the mental ability to interpret anything correctly. 

-treats coordination feats as solo feats for sasuke.
-says i use fanfiction.


----------



## Zef (Sep 28, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> and this wasnt what i was talking about. *naruto and sasuke pushed momoshiki back with their strength.*


Thank you for repeating what I just said

And the sequence of events I laid out flatly to you went right over your head.If you're going to quote someone at least read what they typed to avoid reiteration. 
I clearly said the ground got elevated *prior* to them connecting with Momoshiki.



> in other words, its a coordination feat, which means that neither can do that individually.


They individually replicated the same speed, and strength in the video I provided.
Here's Naruto, and Sasuke producing the same speed and force:


As indicative of the fire under Sasuke's feet, and Naruto sending Momoshiki through the very hill they created prior.


> naruto, sasuke and momoshiki elevated the ground from their movements, not any of them individually. whats so hard to understand?


The better question is what's difficult for you to see?
The second is why do I have to repeat myself? Are you paying attention to what I'm posting? 

Ground rises here.



Naruto, and Sasuke punch Momoshiki here

The two lines moving in tandem during the second gif are Naruto, and Sasuke going to Momoshiki's location. 



> obitos feat of destroying hashiramas clone is a valid as madaras.


Yup, because it perfectly illustrates why Hashirama doesn't deserve the "generic top tier feats" you're giving him.



> real hashirama defeated madara. im not quite sure what manga you read, because it definitely wasnt masashi kishimotos.



Don't act obtuse. 
There's only one instance in the manga where Hashirama is stuck full of black rods.

It happened during the War Arc. Either re-read the manga or stop acting ignorant. 
No one said anything about Madara beating Hashirama so don't put words in my mouth.



> kinshiki being weaker is irrelevant.


It very well is relevant. 
The God tiers are Momoshiki, Naruto, and Sasuke. Not Kinshiki. 
The entire purpose of Kinshiki's existence was to be absorbed by the stronger Ootsusuki. 



> you said that naruto and sasuke are "god tier" simply because they faced an otsutsuki,


Yeah, an Ootsusuki that:

-Is related to Kaguya
-Is the main threat of the movie
-Has Rinnegan

-Kinshiki doesn't have Rinnegan. 
-Kinshiki is a lacky
-Kinshiki was told to retreat at the beginning of the film by Momoshiki

Again, stop acting obtuse.



> so the gokage would be as well. its that simple.


The only simple thing here is your thought process.

Kinshiki is a Byakugan user with superior speed, and strength. 
That's it. The Gokage beating him is not an achievement. 



> the gokage couldnt use ninjutsu against momoshiki,


Ok, that's Momoshiki. We're talking about the Gokage fighting Kinshiki. Don't try to dodge.

Momoshiki's Rinnegan ability makes ninjutsu null, and void. Kinshiki has no such power because he lacks Rinnegan. 
Another reason among many for why he's weaker.




> so im not sure why you even said this. must be your immaculate comprehension skills


I never mentioned the Gokage doing anything to Momoshiki so you're either:
-Delusional (understandable with the ridiculous Hashirama wank)
-Projecting your own incomprehension
-Are desperate so are bringing forth shit I never talked about



> i am supporting my arguments with facts however, you lack the mental ability to interpret anything correctly.



Still awaiting the facts that makes Hashirama, and "generic top tiers" capable of using taijutsu at the aforementioned level.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Sep 28, 2015)

Sasuke should comfortably be able to defeat Juubi Jin Madara, if not severely hurt him, with taijutsu alone from his feats in the movie. The only characters capable of defeating Sasuke now, taijutsu or no, are Naruto, Kaguya, and maybe Eight Gated Guy.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 28, 2015)

Zef said:


> Thank you for repeating what I just said
> 
> And the sequence of events I laid out flatly to you went right over your head.If you're going to quote someone at least read what they typed to avoid reiteration.
> I clearly said the ground got elevated *prior* to them connecting with Momoshiki.


momoshiki is clearly shown running towards naruto and sasuke.



naruto, sasuke *and* momoshiki ran towards each other, elevating the ground in the process.



> They individually replicated the same speed, and strength in the video I provided.
> Here's Naruto, and Sasuke producing the same speed and force:
> 
> 
> As indicative of the fire under Sasuke's feet, and Naruto sending Momoshiki through the very hill they created prior.


it took both of them together to push back momoshiki with strength, so that means that neither can do that individually.
i dont know what to say if you cant comprehend something this simple.
naruto breaking rock doesnt do anything to support your point.


> The better question is what's difficult for you to see?
> The second is why do I have to repeat myself? Are you paying attention to what I'm posting?
> 
> Ground rises here.


created by naruto, sasuke and momoshiki are clarified earlier.



> Naruto, and Sasuke punch Momoshiki here
> 
> The two lines moving in tandem during the second gif are Naruto, and Sasuke going to Momoshiki's location.


how does posting coordination feats support your point? 



> Yup, because it perfectly illustrates why Hashirama doesn't deserve the "generic top tier feats" you're giving him.


that doesnt make sense. madara blatantly stated that the clones were weak because hashirama was keeping the majority of his power to himself. 

your claim implies that anyone who can defeat hashiramas clone can defeat hashirama.

top tier strength feats is madara sending biju flying with physical strength, which hashirama can also pull off due to his stats being on par with madara.




> Don't act obtuse.
> There's only one instance in the manga where Hashirama is stuck full of black rods.
> 
> It happened during the War Arc. Either re-read the manga or stop acting ignorant.
> No one said anything about Madara beating Hashirama so don't put words in my mouth.


and if black zetsu didnt revive madara with rinne tensei, that never wouldve happened.
how is this even relevant? madara defeated hashiramas clone while sitting down using ribcage susano. he cant do the same to the real hashirama.



> It very well is relevant.
> The God tiers are Momoshiki, Naruto, and Sasuke. Not Kinshiki.
> The entire purpose of Kinshiki's existence was to be absorbed by the stronger Ootsusuki.
> 
> ...


i reiterated what you said verbatim, yet im being obtuse? 



> The only simple thing here is your thought process.
> 
> Kinshiki is a Byakugan user with superior speed, and strength.
> That's it. The Gokage beating him is not an achievement. [
> ...


-says that naruto and sasuke are god tier for fighting an otsutsuki.
-says that the gokage beating kinshiki isnt impressive.


i can very well understand that momoshiki is stronger than kinshiki. i am merely reiterating what you said. it gives me insight to how your bias mind works.



> Still awaiting the facts that makes Hashirama, and "generic top tiers" capable of using taijutsu at the aforementioned level.


madaras strikes have been shown to make biju fly.

the amount of rock that naruto chipped from punching momoshiki and the amount of the shinju that sasuke chipped from kicking momoshiki, are smaller than the biju that madara and hashirama can send flying with their strength.


----------



## Kyu (Sep 28, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> I love how Sasuke is faster than BSM NAruto
> 
> What a load of horseshit.
> 
> I am glad I never watch the movies.



Similar occurrences aren't exclusive to movies.

Sasuke was no slower than RSM Naruto when they saved Sakura(_both_ actually had _more_ of a reason to use their top speed). Before that, he was fast enough on foot to get Juubi Madara within range and successfully activate amenotejikara. 

Later on? No faster than base Naruto.

Same likely applies to their adult incarnations given the requirements of a godly shunshin is an immense amount of control & vast quantities of chakra - the latter being something Naruto is unrivaled in. Sasuke is naturally quicker on his feet and will _always_ be faster without taking body flickers/stat amplifiers into account; the gap however, isn't large enough to allow him to outright blitz his rival under neutral circumstances.


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## Zensuki (Sep 28, 2015)

ℜai said:


> Kaguya
> 
> Red Gai
> 
> ...



This.

RSM Naruto when he has multiple clones, Gai when he has 8 gates, and the goddess and her wannabe gods.

Not sure how 3 eyed Madara would deal with Ameno.
Basically by himself, Sasuke is the greatest taijutsu user in the shinobi world.


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## DeK3iDE (Sep 28, 2015)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> *Sasuke should comfortably be able to defeat Juubi Jin Madara, if not severely hurt him, with taijutsu alone from his feats in the movie. *The only characters capable of defeating Sasuke now, taijutsu or no, are Naruto, Kaguya, and maybe Eight Gated Guy.


the only version of Madara Sasuke can defeat with taijutsu that easily is that old Madara. Last  i remember, Sasuke's striking power is still laughable compared to Tsunade's  or even Gai's. JJ Madara would laugh at Sasuke's taijutsu, as it took Gai going all the way to the 8th Gate for anybody to even inflict that kind of damage to him with taijutsu.


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## Zef (Sep 28, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> momoshiki is clearly shown running towards naruto and sasuke.


Yes, as I also said in my very first post.
I specifically illustrated (several times via gif) that Naruto & Sasuke got to him first.



> i dont know what to say if you cant comprehend something this simple.


You can stop talking at all  because all you've done is talk out your ass.
My third or fourth response to you, and there still remains no evidence of Hashirama producing such speed let alone strength. Naruto, and Sasuke as teenagers are capable of besting Hashirama in taijutsu let alone their Last, or Boruto counterparts. 
The entirety of your "argument" can be summed up with "Lol movie" yet you can't even reconcile feats like this:


that happened in the manga, and put Hashirama's non existent showing of taijutsu to shame.
A case can't be made for him on hype and heresay alone. 



> naruto breaking rock doesnt do anything to support your point.



Naruto, and Sasuke treated Momoshiki like a pinball in a pinball machine. He was sent flying back and forth through various layers of hill/mountain that Naruto, and Sasuke created while rushing at him.
Momoshiki had to release weapons to stop the onslaught. 

This is what happens to Hashirama when he faces Sasuke with pure taijutsu. 


Except his endurance is no where near Momoshiki's so his face will need reconstructing after a single kick.



> that doesnt make sense. madara blatantly stated that the clones were weak because hashirama was keeping the majority of his power to himself.


How does Hashirama (clone or not, because JJ Obito wrecks him regardless) admitting inferiority to JJ Obito not make sense? Are you seriously trying to argue that Hashirama's clone doesn't speak for him, and that the real Hashirama is not weaker then JJ Obito? 
Because if that's where this is going tell me right now so I can put you on ignore. 



> your claim implies that anyone who can defeat hashiramas clone can defeat hashirama.


Madara dealt with the clones then proceeded to stick the real Hashirama full of black rods that restricted his movement. 
You seem to be under the delusion that Hashirama magically had them appear in his back.



> top tier strength feats is madara sending biju flying with physical strength, which hashirama can also pull off due to his stats being on par with madara.


Good for Hashirama, and that version of Madara. 

JJ Madara is far superior, and as I showed via scans:



We're far past that point.
Naruto was blocking continental/moon level shit in The Last, and having clashes with Toneri that destroyed areas on the moon. 
Time to get with the times because smacking Bijuu was shit the 3rd Raikage could do. These feats are no longer relevant. 



> and if black zetsu didnt revive madara with rinne tensei, that never wouldve happened.


So?
How does this change the fact that Madara incapacitated him?
This is just sad. Is Hashirama getting owned somehow diminished because Madara had plot on his side?



> i reiterated what you said *verbatimet* yet im being obtuse?



You must be obtuse because I refuse to believe the alternative of you being serious, and in the right state of mind.



> -says that naruto and sasuke *are god tier for fighting an otsutsuki.*


"Verbatim" eh?
Quote me. Show where I said Naruto, and Sasuke are god tiers *for* fighting an Ootsusuki or I'm done with your clowning. 

Here's my post


QUOTE:
*"These are two god tiers facing off against an Ootsusuki"*

No where in that sentence did I say that crap you're making up in place of having no argument. You accuse me of not comprehending yet pulled something entirely different out a simple sentence.



> -says that the gokage beating kinshiki isnt impressive.


Yes, Byakugan by itself stopped being impressive long ago. Only Himawari can redeem it.

Then again, I don't recall Kinshiki ever activating Byakugan so his defeat becomes even more unimpressive.


----------



## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 29, 2015)

how about you stop erasing the parts of my post that you cant counter? 



Zef said:


> Yes, as I also said in my very first post.
> I specifically illustrated (several times via gif) that Naruto & Sasuke got to him first.


what are you talking about? neither got to the other first. they ran at each other, thus all 3 changed the landscape together. 
that means that this feat *cannot* be used for either naruto or sasuke individually.


> You can stop talking at all  because all you've done is talk out your ass.
> My third or fourth response to you, and there still remains no evidence of Hashirama producing such speed let alone strength. Naruto, and Sasuke as teenagers are capable of besting Hashirama in taijutsu let alone their Last, or Boruto counterparts.
> *The entirety of your "argument" can be summed up with "Lol movie"* yet you can't even reconcile feats like this:
> 
> ...


i want you to tell me when i ever implied the bold which would be that the feats dont count because they are movie feats. show me where i said this and dont simply erase this part of the post just like you have been doing prior. it seems like you're the one fabricating statements due to having no rebuttal 




> Naruto, and Sasuke treated Momoshiki like a pinball in a pinball machine. He was sent flying back and forth through various layers of hill/mountain that Naruto, and Sasuke created while rushing at him.
> Momoshiki had to release weapons to stop the onslaught.
> 
> This is what happens to Hashirama when he faces Sasuke with pure taijutsu.
> ...


sasuke *and naruto* pinballed momoshiki, not either individually. its an important distinction that you conveniently ignore.

and why would sasukes kick kill hashirama? do you plan on giving any sort of evidence or are you just talking out of your ass as usual? 



> How does Hashirama (clone or not, because JJ Obito wrecks him regardless) admitting inferiority to JJ Obito not make sense? Are you seriously trying to argue that Hashirama's clone doesn't speak for him, and that the real Hashirama is not weaker then JJ Obito?
> Because if that's where this is going tell me right now so I can put you on ignore.


i shouldve put you on ignore when you attempted to treat coordination feats as sasukes solo feat and erased whatever part of my post you werent capable of responding to. 

no, hashiramas clone does not speak for the original. 
even madara stated that he would take down obito in under 15 minutes if he got a hold of hashiramas sage chakra, the same madara that lost to hashirama.



> Madara dealt with the clones then proceeded to stick the real Hashirama full of black rods that restricted his movement.
> You seem to be under the delusion that Hashirama magically had them appear in his back.


madara defeated hashiramas clone, then was defeated by the real hashirama 

what does madara landing the rods have to do with anything? he never got the chance to activate them until black zetsu revived him, which makes your point moot.

your comparison is completely and utterly fallacious. madara pierced hashirama with rods while being defeated in the process. madara killed hashiramas clone without breaking a sweat.


> Good for Hashirama, and that version of Madara.
> 
> JJ Madara is far superior, and as I showed via scans:
> 
> ...


madara in a weakened state, blocked narutos punch with a single hand. what feat are you talking about? cracking the shinju?

both hashirama and madara can easily crack the shinju on account of having the physical strength to send biju flying.

i dont recall the 3rd raikage sending biju flying. he was capable of mutilating a biju, but thats irrelevant.



> So?
> How does this change the fact that Madara incapacitated him?
> This is just sad. Is Hashirama getting owned somehow diminished because Madara had plot on his side?


maybe because he wasnt owned? hashirama was weakened after defeating edo madara, and living madara had gotten a second wind from rinne tensei. madara then takes down a weakened hashirama.

this debate would be going smoother if you didnt blatantly ignore the mangas context.




> You must be obtuse because I refuse to believe the alternative of you being serious, and in the right state of mind.
> 
> 
> "Verbatim" eh?
> ...



woops, my bad. 
*"These are two god tiers facing off against an Ootsusuki"*
though theres nothing to counter here as its just your bias opinion. 

-naruto and sasuke being god tier when the only character with godly power being kaguya destroys either of them.


----------



## Arles Celes (Sep 29, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> no, hashiramas clone does not speak for the original.
> even madara stated that he would take down obito in under 15 minutes if he got a hold of hashiramas sage chakra, the same madara that lost to hashirama.
> 
> 
> ...



Why would Hashirama's claim concerning Juubito being stronger than his clone be regarded as something even remotely impressive by the characters? How would that exactly hype Juubito? After all given how easily Madara dealt with one of his clones there is hardly much doubt that any kage level fighter on the field could own a Hashi clone with ease. Those clones had trouble with mere Juublings which were casually owned by Naruto, Sasuke and even Sakura.

Juubito overpowered a barrier made by the effort of all hokages including the real Hashi who was using SM.

And how Madara claim to beat Juubito is any more legit that his claim to defeat Hashi -plus steal his SM- any more legit since according to you the battle ended with Madara's defeat? if such was the case then how about Madara overestimating himself in both cases including his attempt to take on Juubito?

Also Hashi clearly needed Naruto's assistance to immobilize Madara with the God Gate. He clearly stated that it was due to Naruto that at least they managed to immobilize him even though Naruto's attack did not beat him.


----------



## Hachibi (Sep 29, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> no, hashiramas clone does not speak for the original.



Signing this


----------



## Zef (Sep 29, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> how about you stop erasing the parts of my post that you cant counter?


I'm cutting out the parts I addressed several times prior. 



> what are you talking about? neither got to the other first.


Then I suppose Momoshiki is holding their hands because he likes how soft their skin feels.
If Naruto, and Sasuke did not get to him first he wouldn't be in a position where he needed to defend himself. 



> they ran at each other, thus all 3 changed the landscape together.


There is a clear shockwave going from Naruto, and Sasuke's direction to Momoshiki's. 

Naruto, and Sasuke are positioned on the left.
The momentum of the ground shifts from left to right. If Momoshiki has anything to do with it the momentum wouldn't be against him



> i want you to tell me when i ever implied the bold


Your very first post.


In which you discredit the movie feats by saying they aren't out of line with what we see in the manga with "generic top tier strength"
When asked to provide an example of said top tiers replicating the movie feats you're unable to do it. Where is your argument for Hashirama, and Madara? Downplaying Naruto, and Sasuke's feats doesn't in anyway boost Hashirama's or Madara's. You can't make a case for them and instead said the movie exaggerated things, therefore like others before you the argument is "Lol movie".



> which would be that the feats dont count because they are movie feats.


Even without movie feats the manga feats still leave Hashirama, and Madara way behind.
Is Hashirama as fast as RSM Naruto? 
No?
Then he loses in a taijutsu bout as Adult Sasuke = RSM Naruto in speed/strength. 



> show me where i said this and dont simply erase this part of the post just like you have been doing prior. it seems like you're the one fabricating statements due to having no rebuttal


Well unlike you I'm not idiot enough to toss  around words like "verbatim", but here you go:


Cutting words from your post is not fabrication. 
Putting words in my mouth, and then lying about saying what I did, VERBATIM is fabricated as well as dumb.

If you're going to accuse someone of saying something at least double check their post. Its not like it'll go anywhere. 



> sasuke *and naruto* pinballed momoshiki,


Is this not what I said? 
Pinball machines have two pins that hit the ball btw. Clearly my analogy was lost on you since you had to type this.
You repeating my statements like an idiot is one reason I'm about to ignore you, the next reason is coming up....



> and why would sasukes kick kill hashirama?


> I say Hashirama will need his face reconstructed
> He twists that into Hashirama dying
> Yet Accuses me of fabricating shit.



Fuck it, won't bother wasting anymore brain cells. I didn't even make it to the second reason:



> *no, hashiramas clone does not speak for the original.*



So I take it Hashirama > JJ Obito since the clone was for unknown reasons  bullshitting? Don't answer that question; I won't see it.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Sep 29, 2015)

Zef said:


> Then I suppose Momoshiki is holding their hands because he likes how soft their skin feels.
> If Naruto, and Sasuke did not get to him first he wouldn't be in a position where he needed to defend himself.


they ran at each other. neither got to the other first. he is defending himself because naruto and sasuke attacked him. again, you comprehension skills never fail to disappoint. 



> There is a clear shockwave going from Naruto, and Sasuke's direction to Momoshiki's.
> 
> Naruto, and Sasuke are positioned on the left.
> The momentum of the ground shifts from left to right. If Momoshiki has anything to do with it the momentum wouldn't be against him


yup, this is the first thing you said that makes sense. after reviewing the footage, momoshiki came down to them from the air, which means that he wasnt involved. 

this is still something that neither naruto or sasuke can do individually though.



> Your very first post.
> 
> 
> In which you discredit the movie feats by saying they aren't out of line with what we see in the manga with "generic top tier strength"
> When asked to provide an example of said top tiers replicating the movie feats you're unable to do it. Where is your argument for Hashirama, and Madara? Downplaying Naruto, and Sasuke's feats doesn't in anyway boost Hashirama's or Madara's. You can't make a case for them and instead said the movie exaggerated things, therefore like others before you the argument is "Lol movie".


my statement clearly means that the feats they showed in the movie(their taijutsu strength for example) arent above what we have seen in the manga.

i never said that the movie exaggerated things or didnt count. again, learn 2 read. 


> Even without movie feats the manga feats still leave Hashirama, and Madara way behind.
> Is Hashirama as fast as RSM Naruto?
> No?
> Then he loses in a taijutsu bout as Adult Sasuke = RSM Naruto in speed/strength.


neither naruto or sasuke have any sort of noticeable strength or speed difference to hashirama and madara.
sasuke couldnt blitz shin.



> Well unlike you I'm not idiot enough to toss  around words like "verbatim", but here you go again:
> 
> 
> Cutting words from your post is not fabrication.
> ...


and to show me how much of an idiot i am, you fail to properly comprehend my post even slightly. good job. 



> Is this not what I said?
> Pinball machines have two pins that hit the ball btw. Clearly my analogy was lost on you since you had to type this.
> You repeating my statements like an idiot is one reason I'm about to ignore you, the next reason is coming up....


so stop treating the momoshiki bout as sasukes solo feat.



> > I say Hashirama will need his face reconstructed
> > He twists that into Hashirama dying
> > Yet Accuses me of fabricating shit.


how else would anyone interpret this? if sasuke takes a direct hit from strength that can send biju flying, he would need his face reconstructed as well. 


> Fuck it, won't bother wasting anymore brain cells. I didn't even make it to the second reason:
> 
> 
> 
> So I take it Hashirama > JJ Obito since the clone was for unknown reasons  bullshitting? Don't answer that question; I won't see it.


what? the clones statement, applies to the clone. are you surprised?

*Spoiler*: __ 



_hashi: I will say this once for all… he is…\\
17
hashi: stronger than us!!\\
tobi: it is rude to say such a thing… but it is the truth…\\
tobi: even if we send against him the clones that disappeared, they will not be enough for such an opponent, brother!\\_



fits perfectly with madara saying that he would beat obito in under 15 minutes.

dont worry. im not losing any sleep over being on your ignore list.
your posts have already made me lose enough brain cells.


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