# BSM Naruto vs Edo Madara



## KiNGPiN (Jun 2, 2016)

VS


*Spoiler*: __ 








_Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto_ vs _Edo Tensei Madara_

*Location* : Madara vs Gokage
*Distance* : 10 Metres
*Mindset* : IC
*Knowledge* : Manga
*Restrictions* : None
*Stipulations* : Assume Naruto has sealing tags.

Who wins?


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

Ma boy naruto loses 

half kyuubi with a time limit can't beat perfect susanoo 

if this was " _the last "_ BSM naruto tho  ...................

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ishmael (Jun 2, 2016)

Madara wins dude is insane with his Sharingan has complete mastery over them and Yesirr that perfect Susano'o of his is deadly


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> perfect Susano'o of his is deadly


post rikudou buffs narudo nukes it with a shuriken


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

Remove his Rinnegan and Mokuton and he still shitstomps.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Bonly (Jun 2, 2016)

Edo Madara would come out on top more times then not. Between Mokuton draining Naruto and forcing him out of his avatar, Susanoo+Preta path to protect him from the majority of Naruto's attacks, ect. and Naruto will simply get overwhelmed eventually


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

Naruto nukes him off his ass and destroys this fucker with BSM clones. Mokuton and Rinnegan dont mean shit when PS is the best he has and Naruto completely dominates that


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Naruto nukes him off his ass and destroys this fucker with BSM clones. Mokuton and Rinnegan dont mean shit when PS is the best he has and Naruto completely dominates that


 
 Mokuton doesn't matter yet Wood Dragon subdued BM Naruto?


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## Itachi san88 (Jun 2, 2016)

lol

Madara wins, mid diff at most.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Mokuton doesn't matter yet Wood Dragon subdued BM Naruto?


it subdued him for a good 3 seconds before he busted it and wood dragon is the best shit Madara has for mokuton. BSM Naruto would break out even easier. He can also just rapid fire bijuu dama lol


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> it subdued him for a good 3 seconds before he busted it and wood dragon is the best shit Madara has for mokuton. BSM Naruto would break out even easier. He can also just rapid fire bijuu dama lol



Actually, it was multiple seconds. It would still subdue him and prevent him from using Bijuudamas or clones before his PS slices him in half.

BSM Naruto is roughly around the same strength as BM Naruto, so he's not busting out of it and he's not spamming Bijuudamas when he's struggling to resist the strength and binding power of his Wood Dragon, not to mention that he's losing chakra which hinders chakra control. It's going to be difficult for him to mold chakra for a Bijuudama when he's losing chakra rapidly and is already struggling to maintain his Kurama Avatar as it is.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

Wood dragon isnt instant and Naruto can use clones right away, clones that can use bijuu dama. Lol at PS beating Kurama Avatar enhanced by senjutsu, the same Kurama Avatar that could swat away chakra arms from fucking Juubito


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

If youd care to actually try and refute my points go ahead. as it stands BM Naruto is > PS Madara, BSM kicks his ass harder

Reactions: Disagree 1 | Dislike 2


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Wood dragon isnt instant and Naruto can use clones right away, clones that can use bijuu dama. Lol at PS beating Kurama Avatar enhanced by senjutsu, the same Kurama Avatar that could swat away chakra arms from fucking Juubito



Really? Madara's Wood Dragon only requires one seal and Mokuton itself travels instantaneously as shown against the Hokage whereas Naruto not only has to manifest his BM Avatar, but also create clones and then begin to use Bijuudama. Yeah, Wood Dragon is reaching him before he can do whatever you're suggesting and if he does use Bijuudama, he'll get blown up along with the Wood Dragon.

His Kurama Avatar isn't enhanced by Senjutsu, only his own Base Chakras are which is insignificant compared to Kurama's own chakra, so BSM Naruto isn't all that much stronger than BM Naruto. PS is also much stronger than Full Kurama, so how is something comparable to 50% Kurama going to out-muscle something stronger than Full Kurama?


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> His Kurama Avatar isn't enhanced by Senjutsu, only his own Base Chakras are which is insignificant compared to Kurama's own chakra, so BSM Naruto isn't all that much stronger than BM Naruto


by this BS logic , RSM shouldn't be stronger than BM since , since his kurama avatar isn't enhanced by six paths senjutsu according to this nonsense logic only base naruto gets the buff 
even tho his avatar clearly grow 3 fucking times bigger when he got the six paths senjutsu


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> by this BS logic , RSM shouldn't be stronger than BM since , since his kurama avatar isn't enhanced by six paths senjutsu according to this nonsense logic only base naruto gets the buff
> even tho his avatar clearly grow 3 fucking times bigger when he got the six paths senjutsu



Let me clarify here:

Bijuu Mode is essentially the combination of both Naruto's and Kurama's Chakra. Kurama's Chakra is significantly greater than Naruto's, so it would look something like this:

Naruto: 1
Kurama: 10
BM Naruto: 11

Now, with Sage Mode, he's only amplifying his own Chakra which won't yield as big of a boost because his chakra is minimal compared to Kurama's, so it would look something like this:

SM Naruto: 2
Kurama: 10
BSM Naruto: 12

Now, with Rikudou Senjutsu, we have to take into consideration that Naruto's Rikudou Senjutsu is stated to surpass BM Naruto, so clearly, RSM Naruto's own chakra outstrips Kurama's. Because of that, Naruto's chakra plays a much bigger role in increasing the strength of Naruto's Kurama Avatar because it's much greater than SM Naruto's let alone Kurama's. It explains why RSM Naruto's Kurama Avatar grew significantly larger yet BSM Naruto's stayed the same size.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Let me clarify here:
> 
> Bijuu Mode is essentially the combination of both Naruto's and Kurama's Chakra. Kurama's Chakra is significantly greater than Naruto's, so it would look something like this:
> 
> ...


oh boy  
BSM naruto's senjutsu chakra is clearly effecting his avatar 
otherwise his avatar would've been crumbled when obito touched it with his TSB  
which means kurama's chakra is also mixed with senjutsu 
since the avatar is kurama's chakra 
a boost is a boost , be it a senjutsu or six paths senjutsu , small , or very big , it doesn't matter 
remember when naruto was about to make a senpo : bijuudama against juubito ?
kishi didn't ask you to be smart , he literally spoon fed you with everything


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Really? Madara's Wood Dragon only requires one seal and Mokuton itself travels instantaneously as shown against the Hokage whereas Naruto not only has to manifest his BM Avatar, but also create clones and then begin to use Bijuudama. Yeah, Wood Dragon is reaching him before he can do whatever you're suggesting and if he does use Bijuudama, he'll get blown up along with the Wood Dragon.


instant wood dragon lol. BM Naruto could slap away bijuu dama with his shunshin and is insanely fast since KCM Naruto was already > A in speed, the same A that is comparable to Minato. Shadow clones are 1 seal and are made "instantly" just like wood dragon. a bijuu dama wont do shit to Kurama Avatar or BM Naruto, Hachibi could take his own bijuu dama and Naruto could swat away 5 of them.



UchihaX28 said:


> His Kurama Avatar isn't enhanced by Senjutsu, only his own Base Chakras are which is insignificant compared to Kurama's own chakra, so BSM Naruto isn't all that much stronger than BM Naruto. PS is also much stronger than Full Kurama, so how is something comparable to 50% Kurama going to out-muscle something stronger than Full Kurama?


PS isnt stronger than full Kurama. show or name me some feats that it has on the same level as Kurama. Madara claimed that PS was as destructive as a biju, but even 50% BM Naruto can shit on 5 bijuu at once so that doenst mean crap here. His Avatar clearly is enhanced by SM since Juubito could grab it with Gudodama arms without it getting negated. Naruto also states that gathering nature energy is faster and his Avatar gets the eye markings.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> oh boy
> BSM naruto's senjutsu chakra is clearly effecting his avatar
> otherwise his avatar would've been crumbled when obito touched it with his TSB
> which means kurama's chakra is also mixed with senjutsu
> ...



I didn't say it didn't? I said that his chakra was so insignificant that even with a Senjutsu Enhancement, it wouldn't boost the power of his Avatar. How'd you interpret my post as his Senjutsu Chakra having no impact on his Avatar at all? Saying that his Senjutsu Chakra had minimal impact in the power of his Kurama Avatar is different than claiming that it had no effect at all.


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> I didn't say it didn't? I said that his chakra was so insignificant that even with a Senjutsu Enhancement, it wouldn't boost the power of his Avatar. How'd you interpret my post as his Senjutsu Chakra having no impact on his Avatar at all? Saying that his Senjutsu Chakra had minimal impact in the power of his Kurama Avatar is different than claiming that it had no effect at all.


wrong , since his avatar is mixed with senjutsu , it gets the same boost as base naruto 
BSM >> BM >> KCM


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> instant wood dragon lol. BM Naruto could slap away bijuu dama with his shunshin and is insanely fast since KCM Naruto was already > A in speed, the same A that is comparable to Minato. Shadow clones are 1 seal and are made "instantly" just like wood dragon. a bijuu dama wont do shit to Kurama Avatar or BM Naruto, Hachibi could take his own bijuu dama and Naruto could swat away 5 of them.



 Instant Kurama Avatar + Clones + Instant Bijuudama spam is even worse quite frankly and something that never happened at all in the manga. 

 Right, KCM Naruto faster than Raikage in Shunshin yet he couldn't even create clones in the moment where Raikage was going to punch the daylights out of him. It obviously takes him some time to create clones. 

 So multiple Bijuudama isn't going to cripple Naruto's Kurama Avatar? Where'd you come up with that conclusion? 2 Bijuudama alone are enough to do moderate damage to Naruto's Kurama Avatar as shown at the VoTE2 Battle.



> PS isnt stronger than full Kurama. show or name me some feats that it has on the same level as Kurama. Madara claimed that PS was as destructive as a biju, but even 50% BM Naruto can shit on 5 bijuu at once so that doenst mean crap here. His Avatar clearly is enhanced by SM since Juubito could grab it with Gudodama arms without it getting negated. Naruto also states that gathering nature energy is faster and his Avatar gets the eye markings.



 Base Mokujin is outright stated to have equal strength as Kurama in the Databook.

 PS stalemated a much stronger Construct which was SM Hashirama's Mokujin. It's clearly stronger.

 I know his Avatar is enhanced by SM. Reread my post to cctr9 because I don't feel like explaining it again.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> wrong , since his avatar is mixed with senjutsu , it gets the same boost as base naruto
> BSM >> BM >> KCM



 No it doesn't. His own Chakra is molded with Natural Energy. The only reason is affects his Avatar is because his own Chakra is a part of the Avatar as well, but his chakra is so insignificant compared to Kurama's that it's not equivalent to the boost Naruto receives when he uses a Normal Sage Mode because only his Charka is a factor whereas this case, it's not. It's a minimal factor which is why the boost BSM Naruto obtains is minimal.

 That's why he didn't use BSM against Madara because other than Senjutsu, it doesn't provide much else.

 BSM >= BM >> KCM


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Instant Kurama Avatar + Clones + Instant Bijuudama spam is even worse quite frankly and something that never happened at all in the manga.
> 
> Right, KCM Naruto faster than Raikage in Shunshin yet he couldn't even create clones in the moment where Raikage was going to punch the daylights out of him. It obviously takes him some time to create clones.
> 
> So multiple Bijuudama isn't going to cripple Naruto's Kurama Avatar? Where'd you come up with that conclusion? 2 Bijuudama alone are enough to do moderate damage to Naruto's Kurama Avatar as shown at the VoTE2 Battle.


I didnt say it was all instant, but him using clones at the same speed Madara uses wood dragon, clones that are faster than wood dragon has ever shown to be. 

Naruto didnt use clones against the Raikage because he wasnt trying to fight the dude wtf are you even talking about. 

Kurama Avatar could take Juubi beam that shit on 9 bijuu dama, and even a weakened Hachibi could take his own bijuu dama directly. Kurama Avatar shits on Hachibi.




UchihaX28 said:


> Base Mokujin is outright stated to have equal strength as Kurama in the Databook.
> 
> PS stalemated a much stronger Construct which was SM Hashirama's Mokujin. It's clearly stronger.
> 
> I know his Avatar is enhanced by SM. Reread my post to cctr9 because I don't feel like explaining it again.


BSM Naruto is > Prime Kurama. Madara matching a mokujin of a weakened Hashirama doesnt prove a lot, Hashirama still had clones running around helping the alliance too. 

Kurama's chakra is enhanced because Naruto's is melded with it, it's enhancing the mixture of both their chakras in BSM.


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## Android (Jun 2, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> No it doesn't. His own Chakra is molded with Natural Energy. The only reason is affects his Avatar is because his own Chakra is a part of the Avatar as well, but his chakra is so insignificant compared to Kurama's that it's not equivalent to the boost Naruto receives when he uses a Normal Sage Mode because only his Charka is a factor whereas this case, it's not. It's a minimal factor which is why the boost BSM Naruto obtains is minimal.
> 
> *That's why he didn't use BSM against Madara because other than Senjutsu, it doesn't provide much else.*
> 
> BSM >= BM >> KCM


wrong again , if his senjutsu chakra was so tiny and insignificant , then his sage mode would've finish after just one TBB 
yet he used like 5 TBB , powered his father's giant rasengan , was going to use a huge ass TBB , and then gave his chakra to konoha 11 fodders to use a cho odama rasengan powered with senjutsu  
and that's not all , his senjutsu was powering sauce's susanoo blade , when it clashed with juubito's nonobuko sword 
> yet he still say his senjutsu boost wasn't relevant 
bold is not , in any way , shape , or form , an argument , in fact a 100 % bad argument 
i'm outta here

Reactions: Like 1


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## ARGUS (Jun 2, 2016)

Madara wins this Mid/high diff 

 -- PS slashes, mokuryu or ST stop any TBB formation, 

 -- PS mauls the avatar in close quarters and cuts its Tail whenever naruto tries to block. One Naruto loses his Tails all Madara needs is a few more and he's butchered 

 - regular TBB gets tanked no diff. Barrages get sent away by Jukai Kotan and if Madara is without a construct and Naruto tries to blitz then preta would just absorb his shroud and Madara would clown base Naruto once that happens


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 2, 2016)

cctr9 said:


> wrong again , if his senjutsu chakra was so tiny and insignificant , then his sage mode would've finish after just one TBB
> yet he used like 5 TBB , powered his father's giant rasengan , was going to use a huge ass TBB , and then gave his chakra to konoha 11 fodders to use a cho odama rasengan powered with senjutsu
> and that's not all , his senjutsu was powering sauce's susanoo blade , when it clashed with juubito's nonobuko sword
> > yet he still say his senjutsu boost wasn't relevant
> ...



Naruto doesn't pour all of his Chakra into his Kurama Avatar and can control how much Natural Energy he uses, so that's a moot point.

Senjutsu boost only acted as a means to damage Juubito and penetrate his defenses, but that's literally it. Why do you think it wasn't used against Madara when it could've been?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 3, 2016)

Cause he had no reason to use it against Madara? He wasnt nearly as big of a threat to Naruto as Juubito, and once Naruto figured out he was it was too late.

Naruto clones and clowns this bitch. Hashirama compared the amount of chakra he was using to himself


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Cause he had no reason to use it against Madara? He wasnt nearly as big of a threat to Naruto as Juubito, and once Naruto figured out he was it was too late.
> 
> Naruto clones and clowns this bitch. Hashirama compared the amount of chakra he was using to himself



 That doesn't make sense. He was the mastermind of the whole thing and was the man who was the only one who could compete with the God of Shinobi. Wouldn't make sense for him not to use Bijuu Sage Mode as a precaution as they were attempting to subdue him. Subduing him would be a lot easier with more power.


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## StarWanderer (Jun 3, 2016)

Madara mid-diffs.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 3, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> That doesn't make sense. He was the mastermind of the whole thing and was the man who was the only one who could compete with the God of Shinobi. Wouldn't make sense for him not to use Bijuu Sage Mode as a precaution as they were attempting to subdue him. Subduing him would be a lot easier with more power.


Naruto had 8 bijuu, the entire shinobi alliance and 4 edo hokages to fight against the dude who they knew was weaker than Juubito. Naruto thought they fucked him and it was about over and then he pulled out the Gedo, launched a surprise attack with Limbo and absorbed the bijuu.


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## Icegaze (Jun 3, 2016)

madara trolls
forget wood dragon
the guy got preta path. Naruto entire skill set bar frog fu is useless against preta path

madara stands there and forces Naruto into taijutsu where he will end up winning


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## Kai (Jun 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> If youd care to actually try and refute my points go ahead. as it stands BM Naruto is > PS Madara, BSM kicks his ass harder


Let's see what happened out of their confrontation.
>Wood Dragon engaged the avatar and sucked the chakra dry
>Madara distinguished Naruto from his clone
>Madara obliterated Naruto's clone using handheld BD with Uchiha Gaeshi

Yet you think Naruto kicks Madara's ass 

Eight minutes to end Edo Madara is not feasible for B/SM either.

Reactions: Like 2


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 3, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> madara trolls
> forget wood dragon
> the guy got preta path. Naruto entire skill set bar frog fu is useless against preta path
> 
> madara stands there and forces Naruto into taijutsu where he will end up winning


Preta path cant absorb Kurama Avatar or bijuu dama so no.



Kai said:


> Let's see what happened out of their confrontation.
> >Wood Dragon engaged the avatar and sucked the chakra dry
> >Madara distinguished Naruto from his clone
> >Madara obliterated Naruto's clone using handheld BD with Uchiha Gaeshi
> ...


BSM Naruto could keep up with Juubito and could physically knock away his chakra arms using the Kurama Avatar. 

Wood dragon didnt suck it dry, Naruto disengaged the Avatar and escaped. again please tell me how Madara would actaully defeat him


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## Negrito (Jun 3, 2016)

When Naruto enters BSM he is using Kurama's chakra (which is melded with his own) as the ingredient in order to make senjutsu chakra. Or else all the attajcks he used wouldn't be effective against Obito. Or when Kurama gathered the world's NE, what did you think an exhausted Naruto has enough Chakra to balance all that NE?


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Preta path cant absorb Kurama Avatar or bijuu dama so no.
> 
> 
> BSM Naruto could keep up with Juubito and could physically knock away his chakra arms using the Kurama Avatar.
> ...



Madara was toying him with only Wood Dragon. What would happen if while his chakras were being sucked dry, that he just chose to cleave Naruto in half with PS?

He was aiming to capture. If he were serious, Naruto and Bee would've both been dead.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 3, 2016)

Negrito said:


> When Naruto enters BSM he is using Kurama's chakra (which is melded with his own) as the ingredient in order to make senjutsu chakra. Or else all the attajcks he used wouldn't be effective against Obito. Or when Kurama gathered the world's NE, what did you think an exhausted Naruto has enough Chakra to balance all that NE?



 When Juubito drop slammed him, Naruto reverted back to Sage Mode and then entered Bijuu Sage Mode instantaneously. BSM is essentially SM + BM, nothing more. He doesn't knead Natural Energy with Kurama's Chakra. That's a feat shown only at VoTE 2.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 3, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Madara was toying him with only Wood Dragon. What would happen if while his chakras were being sucked dry, that he just chose to cleave Naruto in half with PS?
> 
> He was aiming to capture. If he were serious, Naruto and Bee would've both been dead.


Naruto could slap away 5 bijuu dama without Kurama Avatar in just BM, PS slashes are also not faster than BSM Naruto


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 3, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Naruto could slap away 5 bijuu dama without Kurama Avatar in just BM, PS slashes are also not faster than BSM Naruto



 Yes they are. 

 They cover a larger area and are generally faster as shown when BSM Naruto and Sasuke could tag Juubito, but they wouldn't even hope to do so without their Constructs.


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## Empathy (Jun 3, 2016)

_Mokuryuu _probably won't be very effective against Naruto unless it's _Senpou: Mokuryuu._


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Yes they are.
> 
> They cover a larger area and are generally faster as shown when BSM Naruto and Sasuke could tag Juubito, but they wouldn't even hope to do so without their Constructs.


????? Naruto was faster than bijuu dama from a very close range, intercepting them from hitting Guy and Kakashi and hitting them literally miles away. Even Naruto without the Kurama Avatar in BSM is stronger than anything PS has shown from Madara.


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## Isaiah13000 (Jun 4, 2016)

Edo Madara wins with high difficulty, he'd take him down but it'd only be after a hell of a fight. His Perfect Susanoo is easily countered by BSM Naruto and quickly destroyed but his Mokuton combined with Rinnegan will be too much for him to deal with.


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Preta path cant absorb Kurama Avatar or bijuu dama so no.
> 
> 
> BSM Naruto could keep up with Juubito and could physically knock away his chakra arms using the Kurama Avatar.
> ...



since when cant preta absorb BM mode? any proof


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> since when cant preta absorb BM mode? any proof


do you have any proof it can? The strongest thing it was shown to absorb was V2 B and BM Naruto is >>> that


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> do you have any proof it can? The strongest thing it was shown to absorb was V2 B and BM Naruto is >>> that




Because it has absorbed everything is it has come in contact with 
Burden of proof on you not the other way around 

Why is a cloak immune to preta path ?


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Because it has absorbed everything is it has come in contact with
> Burden of proof on you not the other way around
> 
> Why is a cloak immune to preta path ?


Except it takes him time to absorb shit. He cant absorb the cloak before Naruto bashes his face in in BSM and he cant use preta path with Susanoo so he will be defenseless if he tries to use it, ergo its useless here.

It cant absorb a bijuu dama and Naruto could fucking palm those in BM.


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Except it takes him time to absorb shit. He cant absorb the cloak before Naruto bashes his face in in BSM and he cant use preta path with Susanoo so he will be defenseless if he tries to use it, ergo its useless here.
> 
> It cant absorb a bijuu dama and Naruto could fucking palm those in BM.




On contact Naruto cloak will leave him 
Same way V2 left killer bee on contact

Again on what basis can't it absorb BD?

Why won't it be able to 

Effortlessly shitting on FRS would imply it can absorb a BD


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> On contact Naruto cloak will leave him
> Same way V2 left killer bee on contact
> 
> Again on what basis can't it absorb BD?
> ...


LMAO

BM cloak shits on V2, he isnt absorbing that shit instantly, preta couldnt even absorb FRS instantly. BD>>>>>>FRS in basically every single way, Naruto can throw FRS like candy in KCM but he noted that BD were dense and heavy as fuck and actually hurt his own hands trying to make just a small version.


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> LMAO
> 
> BM cloak shits on V2, he isnt absorbing that shit instantly, preta couldnt even absorb FRS instantly. BD>>>>>>FRS in basically every single way, Naruto can throw FRS like candy in KCM but he noted that BD were dense and heavy as fuck and actually hurt his own hands trying to make just a small version.



Has there been any limit implied by kishi as to what preta can absorb 
Nope I rest my case 
It's a chakra cloak preta shits on it for sport


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## Ishmael (Jun 4, 2016)

Preta path has the ability to absorb any form of chakra, it's able to absorb ninjutsu based techniques the effect allows it to Form a barrier around the paths body so it can Absorb attacks from all directions but it can't absorb to much senjustu chakra


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Has there been any limit implied by kishi as to what preta can absorb
> Nope I rest my case
> It's a chakra cloak preta shits on it for sport


okay. cool. thats a NLF dumbass and you cant just say "it has no limit" when it was shown to take time to absorb shit like FRS and V2 cloak. It might be able to absorb endlessly but its not fast enough to stop Naruto from beating his face in. I rest my case.


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> okay. cool. thats a NLF dumbass and you cant just say "it has no limit" when it was shown to take time to absorb shit like FRS and V2 cloak. It might be able to absorb endlessly but its not fast enough to stop Naruto from beating his face in. I rest my case.



 it took time to absorb FRS? where???

it trolled jinton, trolled FRS. you are the one implying a no limit on BD, saying it cant be absorbed. when we have seen BD get blocked and dealt with the way any other jutsu would have been

your case is rested. don't worry..

so far no cloaked user has been able to do any damage against preta path while its cloak is stripped. whats BM Naruto gonna bash his face in with, an arm made of chakra. am sure even one such as urself can see why that's an issue


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> it took time to absorb FRS? where???
> 
> it trolled jinton, trolled FRS. you are the one implying a no limit on BD, saying it cant be absorbed. when we have seen BD get blocked and dealt with the way any other jutsu would have been


Im too lazy to find the panels but Nagato's paths couldnt even absorb Jiraya's Cho Oodama Rasengan in 1 panel IIRC.

BD have been blocked by: other bijuu dama, BM Naruto, Madara using V4 swords to stop an unexploded one, and the hokage barrier. What else is there?


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Im too lazy to find the panels but Nagato's paths couldnt even absorb Jiraya's Cho Oodama Rasengan in 1 panel IIRC.
> 
> BD have been blocked by: other bijuu dama, BM Naruto, Madara using V4 swords to stop an unexploded one, and the hokage barrier. What else is there?



and madara>>>>>>>>nagato who is>>>>>>>>>>>fodder using preta path abilities

rashomon , BT'in a massive boulder that allowed deva to survive a point blank BD.

my point is its foolish to assume BD cant be absorbed when it was never stated to be impossible to absorb. I mean even super sized FRS was trolled by preta.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> and madara>>>>>>>>nagato who is>>>>>>>>>>>fodder using preta path abilities
> 
> rashomon , BT'in a massive boulder that allowed deva to survive a point blank BD.


a BD from 6 tailed Naruto? incomparable to BM Naruto using one. More like Madara >>Nagato and who hasnt showcased how much better his preta path abilities are than Nagato. So its at the same level. Naruto nukes him and Mokuryuu



Icegaze said:


> I mean even super sized FRS was trolled by preta.


its more foolish to assume it can be absorbed when it was never shown to be able to, especially something so heavy and dense with chakra. Preta path only ever encountered a regular sized FRS what are you talking about.


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

Lol ok 
U can keep thinking that


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

Icegaze said:


> Lol ok
> U can keep thinking that


okay you just keep on being wrong then


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## Icegaze (Jun 4, 2016)

lol cute.
feel free to poll it lets see what other people think
we have all read the manga, if more agree with you

you are right, though I doubt that.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 4, 2016)

I mean if you want more proof. Hashirama compared the chakra BSM Naruto was handling was comparable to his own and BSM Naruto could keep up with Juubito, the same Juubito that could blitz and fuck SM Hashirama who is >Madara. He could bat away chakra arms from Juubito that could rip apart the 4 hokages barrier.

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1


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## Icegaze (Jun 5, 2016)

Not sure how any of that is proof that his cloak is immune to preta path


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## ARGUS (Jun 5, 2016)

Yeh,
Once a BM cloak comes in contact with preta.
It's gone


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 5, 2016)

So Madara can drain the whole cloak instantly? Or stop Naruto from summoning his Kurama Avatar and punching him to death? How is Madara even reacting to a full speed shunshin from BSM Naruto when he could barely react to V2 A


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 5, 2016)

Nagato drained an entire V2 Cloak from Bee instantly. No reason why Madara can't do the same to Naruto.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 5, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Nagato drained an entire V2 Cloak from Bee instantly. No reason why Madara can't do the same to Naruto.


Yea except the BM cloak shits on the V2 cloak. BSM cloak >>>>V2 And if Madara tries to absorb Naruto's senjutsu too much then he's screwed.

Nagato didnt even try to absorb Naruto's KCM cloak despite making direct contact


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 5, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Yea except the BM cloak shits on the V2 cloak. BSM cloak >>>>V2 And if Madara tries to absorb Naruto's senjutsu too much then he's screwed.
> 
> Nagato didnt even try to absorb Naruto's KCM cloak despite making direct contact



 How'd you come up with that logic?


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## Ishmael (Jun 5, 2016)

LAZLOLAZZING said:


> Preta path has the ability to absorb any form of chakra, it's able to absorb ninjutsu based techniques the effect allows it to Form a barrier around the paths body so it can Absorb attacks from all directions but it can't absorb to much senjustu chakra




For those who don't know what the preta path is capable of or don't know it's abilities


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> How'd you come up with that logic?


Because its true?? Its a fact that BM shits on V2, Naruto's KCM was stronger than V2 jins even.

Nagato also didnt use preta against KCM Naruto despite stealing his cloak with preta being a better option just like he did to B.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Because its true?? Its a fact that BM shits on V2, Naruto's KCM was stronger than V2 jins even.



 We're not sure if BM Naruto's Cloak alone contains more chakra than a V2 Cloak. It shitting on V2 Jins is no indication that it possesses more chakra as it can be linked towards Chakra Potency. Quite frankly, BM Naruto's own Cloak was never indicated to have that much chakra whereas more hype was given to V2 Bee, so I'll stick with V2 Bee's Cloak containing more chakra.



> Nagato also didnt use preta against KCM Naruto despite stealing his cloak with preta being a better option just like he did to B.


 
 Nagato didn't need any extra chakra at that point. Besides, he already disarmed KCM Naruto, so absorbing his chakra would provide no extra result seeing as he was an Edo, so he didn't bother using Preta.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> We're not sure if BM Naruto's Cloak alone contains more chakra than a V2 Cloak. It shitting on V2 Jins is no indication that it possesses more chakra as it can be linked towards Chakra Potency. Quite frankly, BM Naruto's own Cloak was never indicated to have that much chakra whereas more hype was given to V2 Bee, so I'll stick with V2 Bee's Cloak containing more chakra.


either way it doesnt fucking matter dude. BM >>>>V2 in chakra quality/quantity/what the fuck ever. prove he can absorb it fast enough that Naruto doesnt punch his head off.




UchihaX28 said:


> Nagato didn't need any extra chakra at that point. Besides, he already disarmed KCM Naruto, so absorbing his chakra would provide no extra result seeing as he was an Edo, so he didn't bother using Preta.


It wasnt about extra chakra and it wouldve been a huge advantage because Naruto wouldnt have had KCM cloak anymore. You know, the thing that let him keep up with Itachi and Nagato in the first place?


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## ARGUS (Jun 6, 2016)

Nothing distinguishes a BM cloak to a KCM cloak or V2 cloak that will just make it immune to chakra absorption

Not when the cloak itself is chakra and only chakra

So preta would eat it up


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> either way it doesnt fucking matter dude. BM >>>>V2 in chakra quality/quantity/what the fuck ever. prove he can absorb it fast enough that Naruto doesnt punch his head off.



 You haven't proven to me that BM Naruto's Cloak possesses more chakra than a V2 Cloak.



> It wasnt about extra chakra and it wouldve been a huge advantage because Naruto wouldnt have had KCM cloak anymore. You know, the thing that let him keep up with Itachi and Nagato in the first place?



 No because KCM Naruto could literally do nothing at that point. It'd be a waste absorbing its chakra because it's entirely unnecessary. Nagato already vitalized himself through Bee's Hachibi Chakra, so anymore chakra would be pointless considering Edos have infinite stamina. Prove to me that KCM Naruto could've done something because from where I'm standing, all he could do was attempt to resist Nagato's Human Path.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> You haven't proven to me that BM Naruto's Cloak possesses more chakra than a V2 Cloak.


Occams Razor supports me here. Youre assuming a weaker form possesses less chakra than a form that is far superior to it. By your logic I cant "prove" that RSM cloak has more chakra than a V2 cloak.

Im not saying preta path isnt gonna work on BSM Naruto, just that its not going to work fast enough to stop BSM Naruto from punching Madara's head off.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Occams Razor supports me here. Youre assuming a weaker form possesses less chakra than a form that is far superior to it. *By your logic I cant "prove" that RSM cloak has more chakra than a V2 cloak.*
> 
> Im not saying preta path isnt gonna work on BSM Naruto, just that its not going to work fast enough to stop BSM Naruto from punching Madara's head off.



 Faulty comparison because yes, anyone can.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Faulty comparison because yes, anyone can.


BM is the full power of Kurama and Naruto's chakra melded together and massively outstrips KCM in every way, the same KCM that let Naruto that nearly let Naruto end the war on his own. 

KCM Naruto is clearly stronger than V2 jins anyway from feats like dodging A's fastest punch to chakra arms and physical strength that can stop him from being crushed by a bijuu. Kurama is also the strongest of the bijuu and KCM is Naruto using his chakra.


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## Raiken (Jun 6, 2016)

SM Hashirama = Rinnegan Edo Madara > BM+SM Naruto > BM Naruto = EMS Madara = Base Hashirama

Madara wins high - very high difficulty.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> SM Hashirama = Rinnegan Edo Madara > BM+SM Naruto > BM Naruto = EMS Madara = Base Hashirama
> 
> Madara wins high - very high difficulty.


SM Hashi and Rinnegan Mads arent equals lol. SM Mokujin was matching Madara's PS just fine while Hashi had clones out helping the alliance and wasnt even revived at his full strength. Do you really think Madara would do nearly as good against Juubito as BSM Naruto did?


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> BM is the full power of Kurama and Naruto's chakra melded together and massively outstrips KCM in every way, the same KCM that let Naruto that nearly let Naruto end the war on his own.



 Which doesn't tell me that his cloak alone possesses more chakra than V2 Bee's.



> KCM Naruto is clearly stronger than V2 jins anyway from feats like dodging A's fastest punch to chakra arms and physical strength that can stop him from being crushed by a bijuu. Kurama is also the strongest of the bijuu and KCM is Naruto using his chakra.



 He was getting trashed by Base Jin.

 Even then, KCM Naruto possessing superior speed doesn't tell me that it possesses more chakra than V2 Bee. I can easily claim how V2 Cloaks should have more chakra because they possess superior strength feats compared to BM Naruto's cloak.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> Which doesn't tell me that his cloak alone possesses more chakra than V2 Bee's.
> 
> He was getting trashed by Base Jin.
> 
> Even then, KCM Naruto possessing superior speed doesn't tell me that it possesses more chakra than V2 Bee. I can easily claim how V2 Cloaks should have more chakra because they possess superior strength feats compared to BM Naruto's cloak.


That was a jobbing Naruto who had already used up tons of chakra to fight in the war. Kurama shits on the other 8 bijuu even when hes at 50% and you wanna tell me his controlled V2 state is weaker than the other jins? Nice fucking logic. KCM chakra arms could stop 4 tails from crushing Naruto with his hand and any biju is > V2 cloaks.

>Superior strength feats to BM
>Naruto shunshin'd and knocked away 5 bijuu dama


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> That was a jobbing Naruto who had already used up tons of chakra to fight in the war. Kurama shits on the other 8 bijuu even when hes at 50% and you wanna tell me his controlled V2 state is weaker than the other jins? Nice fucking logic. KCM chakra arms could stop 4 tails from crushing Naruto with his hand and any biju is > V2 cloaks.
> 
> >Superior strength feats to BM
> >Naruto shunshin'd and knocked away 5 bijuu dama



Nope, seemed to have plenty of chakra left which is why Gai told Naruto to not use "big" jutsu against Obito which was far after their fight with the Jins.

Never stated that his controlled V2 State (which isn't even comparable to a V2 State to begin with), was weaker than what a boost from a normal V2 Cloak would give. When did I state that? I pointed out a flaw in your logic because you stated that KCM Naruto's cloak has more chakra than a V2 cloak because he was faster, but the same case could be made for a V2 Cloak, because V2 Jinchuuriki have shown better strength feats than KCM Naruto.

>Naruto's Shunshin knocked away 5 Bijuudama yet couldn't knock away Kakashi and Gai who were right next to him. Nice logic. I wonder why BM Naruto has amazing physical strength when he never has overwhelmed a single opponent with strength to begin with.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 6, 2016)

He wasnt trying to knock away Kakashi and Guy? So are you saying that him deflect 5 bijuu dama is somehow invalid because of artistic license despite the feat happening?

KCM clearly enhances Naruto more than V2 does for the jins because Naruto has shit speed and strength in base, yet could dodge A's fastest punch and stop a bijuu from crushing him twice.

Naruto wouldnt have had a lot of chakra left, as shown by when he pulled the stake out of the 4 tails he was exhausted. He sent out a bunch of clones to fight in the war, then he fought Nagato and Itachi and had no break in between that and fighting Obito.


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## Klue (Jun 6, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> His Kurama Avatar isn't enhanced by Senjutsu



I was really feelin' you until you said this bull shit. 


Nature power enhances everything by default, even if Kishi doesn't play it up (_bring attention to it_).


Alright, Imma continue reading this thread.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 6, 2016)

Klue said:


> I was really feelin' you until you said this bull shit.
> 
> 
> Nature power enhances everything but default, even if Kishi doesn't play it up (_bring attention to it_).
> ...



 I'm going to need the context of my post because I already stated his Avatar was enhanced by Senjutsu, but only because Naruto's minimal chakra is a part of the Avatar.


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## ARGUS (Jun 7, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> SM Hashirama = Rinnegan Edo Madara > BM+SM Naruto > BM Naruto = EMS Madara = Base Hashirama
> 
> Madara wins high - very high difficulty.


Hashirama matched Edo Madaras full power with just a SM mokujin 
If he used SS then Madara would have been mopped off the face of the earth 
So no they're not equals 

EMS Madara canonically matched Hashirama full power with PS and Kyuubi. Edo Madara on the other hand only has PS as his full power along with base mokuton and fake Rinnegan which are trash to PS. Yet Edo Madara canonically overwhelmed BM Naruto and bee at the same time without even using his full power 

So it's: 
SM Hashirama >= VOTE Madara >> Edo Madara > EMS Madara >= Base Hashirama > BSM Naruto > BM Naruto

Reactions: Like 2 | Dislike 1


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## Trojan (Jun 7, 2016)

Naruto wins.

Asspulldara's strongest jutsu "PS" can't scratch Naruto's avatar as we have seen in the manga (Sasuke's PS Vs Narudo's BM)
Asspulldara stated that his PS rivals the Bijuu, but we know that a host with a Bijuu is stronger than the Bijuus

Before @ARGUS comes with his rubbish that it's only apply to Juubi's host, no it does. And no, Deidara's statement about the 3tails
did NOT get retconned whether you like it or not. 

And because I am sure some retarded people will come and say
"hurr durr, that was RM Narudo, you can't compare him to BM Naruto as he has 50% of Hago's power"

If you are one of those people, then before typing that rubbish, I suggest going to a mental health institution ASAP 

And the answer will always remain Sasuke also has that same amount of Hago's power, take both out and the result will remain
the same. And this applies to Asspulldara as well.

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 7, 2016)

1 flash bijuu dama with senjutsu ends this for Madara.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 7, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> He wasnt trying to knock away Kakashi and Guy? So are you saying that him deflect 5 bijuu dama is somehow invalid because of artistic license despite the feat happening?



 And yet Obito tanks a hit from BM Naruto low-diff.

 I don't care about this feat. It's not an accurate representation of his strength at all and he's never displayed strength that can overwhelm his opponents, so why should such a feat matter? Quite frankly, his V2 Jinchuuriki have shown better strength feats.



> KCM clearly enhances Naruto more than V2 does for the jins because Naruto has shit speed and strength in base, yet could dodge A's fastest punch and stop a bijuu from crushing him twice.



 That is irrelevant. His stats in Base don't matter when the Bijuu's Chakra is a greater than his own Base Chakras which determines his own strength and speed. He displayed superior speed feats, but by applying your same logic, V2 Jin have displayed better strength feats and thus, should also have more chakra.

 As I stated before, the boost Naruto receives from KCM/BM Cloak doesn't have to be related to Chakra Quantity at all. It can be, but Kurama's Chakra is more potent, so that's also a possibility as well.



> Naruto wouldnt have had a lot of chakra left, as shown by when he pulled the stake out of the 4 tails he was exhausted. He sent out a bunch of clones to fight in the war, then he fought Nagato and Itachi and had no break in between that and fighting Obito.



 Ah, so when Sasuke is shown being exhausted during the Kaguya Arc, he suddenly isn't exhausted against Naruto, but when Naruto is shown panting like Sasuke was during the Kaguya Arc, you decide to accept it? Yeah, doesn't work like that pal. Naruto is constantly feeding off of Kurama's Chakra which constantly replenishes itself overtime and it was even noted that Kurama stopped taking his chakra before-hand which is why Naruto could create as many clones as he could.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 7, 2016)

UchihaX28 said:


> And yet Obito tanks a hit from BM Naruto low-diff.
> 
> I don't care about this feat. It's not an accurate representation of his strength at all and he's never displayed strength that can overwhelm his opponents, so why should such a feat matter? Quite frankly, his V2 Jinchuuriki have shown better strength feats.


Too bad its a feat and you cant actually deny it because it was the first fucking thing he did in BM and he can do it again in this battle.




UchihaX28 said:


> That is irrelevant. His stats in Base don't matter when the Bijuu's Chakra is a greater than his own Base Chakras which determines his own strength and speed. He displayed superior speed feats, but by applying your same logic, V2 Jin have displayed better strength feats and thus, should also have more chakra.
> 
> As I stated before, the boost Naruto receives from KCM/BM Cloak doesn't have to be related to Chakra Quantity at all. It can be, but Kurama's Chakra is more potent, so that's also a possibility as well.


What strength feats does a V2 jin have that would allow them to stop from being crushed by a bijuu? The only one is the 6 tails acid and slug physiology because it burned Hachibi's skin and allowed him to escape.


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## UchihaX28 (Jun 7, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> Too bad its a feat and you cant actually deny it because it was the first fucking thing he did in BM and he can do it again in this battle.



 >Says he has incredible strength.
 >Yet Obito tanks BM Naruto's attack low-diff.
 >Yet BM Naruto has never overwhelmed an opponent in strength.

 The situation hyped up his speed, not his actual physical strength.



> What strength feats does a V2 jin have that would allow them to stop from being crushed by a bijuu? The only one is the 6 tails acid and slug physiology because it burned Hachibi's skin and allowed him to escape.



 First you have to explain to me why such a feat is impressive because I don't think being able to resist a Bijuu's bite strength is that impressive.


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## Raiken (Jun 7, 2016)

SM Hashirama could match EMS Madara w/ 100% Kurama, yet they think what essentially is SM Naruto w/ 50% Kurama can beat SM Hashirama, a bit silly in my opinion.

Sure Naruto has more techniques and more versatility to him because of the nature of his Bijuu Mode compared to what Madara does with the Kyuubi, however it doesn't change the fact that.

EMS Madara >>>> SM Naruto
100% Kurama >> 50% Kurama

People are saying that Edo Madara is weaker than SM Hashirama, no, obviously Hashirama didn't think Shinsuusenju was appropriate for the type of fight he was in, for similar reasons to why Naruto didn't use Bijuu Avatar against JJ Madara/Kaguya.

SM Hashirama is roughly equal to Rinnegan Madara w/o Limbo.
I have Base Hashirama around to BM Naruto, but I don't think Naruto's Senjutsu boost is as big as Hashiramas for reasons I won't bother to explain unless asked, so it would be a tough fight, but in my opinion, Madara wins High - Very High Diff.

If SM Hashirama was so far above Edo-Madara, they wouldn't have been stalemating by the time Naruto through his Senpou COFRS at Madara.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 7, 2016)

100% Kurama is > 50% but BM Naruto would knock the shit out of 100% Kurama. Naruto could fucking singe and knock down 50% Kurama while in SM. BSM is a big boost considering Naruto could knock away chakra arms from Juubito using his Avatar alone. It's mixing senjutsu/natural energy with Naruto and Kurama's melded chakra.

perfect jins were stated to be >>their bijuu w/ no jin


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## Raiken (Jun 7, 2016)

OneSimpleAnime said:


> 100% Kurama is > 50% but BM Naruto would knock the shit out of 100% Kurama. Naruto could fucking singe and knock down 50% Kurama while in SM. BSM is a big boost considering Naruto could knock away chakra arms from Juubito using his Avatar alone. It's mixing senjutsu/natural energy with Naruto and Kurama's melded chakra.
> 
> perfect jins were stated to be >>their bijuu w/ no jin


I agree that Perfect Jin's > Their respective Bijuu on it's own. However not to such a great margin. I disagree that 50% BM Naruto would stomp 100% Kurama, I'd say it would be a close fight.

The main thing you're forgetting that is 100% Kurama there was combined with EMS Madara, 100% Kurama+EMS Madara.
Sure it isn't as good of a union as with a Perfect Jinchuuriki, but it's a lot more powerful than either 100% Kurama or EMS Madara individually.


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## OneSimpleAnime (Jun 7, 2016)

Cryorex said:


> I agree that Perfect Jin's > Their respective Bijuu on it's own. However not to such a great margin. I disagree that 50% BM Naruto would stomp 100% Kurama, I'd say it would be a close fight.
> 
> The main thing you're forgetting that is 100% Kurama there was combined with EMS Madara, 100% Kurama+EMS Madara.
> Sure it isn't as good of a union as with a Perfect Jinchuuriki, but it's a lot more powerful than either 100% Kurama or EMS Madara individually.


Madara wasnt directly controlling and utilising Kurama's chakra during VotE so that doesnt matter. Just like Obito controlling the jins isnt a perfect jin directly controlling the beast.

BM Naruto can dodge anything that 100% Kurama throws at him because bijuu have shit speed lol


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