# Pre-Crisis Superman vs. Gemini Saints



## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

Kanon
Saga
Defteros
and Aspros

PC Superman gets his best feats.

Fight takes place in the .


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 6, 2013)

No Cain and Abel? 

...

No Paradox?


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 6, 2013)

3 Missing Gold Saints, Cain, Abel & Paradox <<< (Honestly I am ashamed to consider Paradox a Gemini Saint -_- but oh well) 

For those who don't know the Gemini Saints I & HMT referring to, please read >>> 







@Mike
Is there any extra posts/feats I need to read about PC Superman beside your blog post?


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

Only the 4 in the OP are in the fight.

And yes, he has lots of great feats, which I will post as the thread continues.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 6, 2013)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> No Paradox?



are we counting trash now?


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 6, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> And yes, he has lots of great feats, which I will post as the thread continues.



Why you are doing this? 

It's really hard to defeat someone who can destroy a solar system simply by sneezing!? Correct me if I am wrong, IIRC I did read in your post he didn't have a major issue getting hit by an attack having a force of 100 Galaxies? so probably if the four Gemini Saints used the Galaxian Explosion at the same time wouldn't be a problem I guess (That's why I wished if Cain was included) 

Well being Gemini Saints fan, why not participate and see how this will end. I guess the Gold Saints reaction speed at least on par with Superman, even if Superman was faster, dealing with 4 Gold Saints who are FTL+ at the same time might be problem. He probably will survive Galaxian Explosion, but can he survive his spirit getting hit by Galaxian Explosion!? (Saga & Defteros). What about Memory-erasing resistance? 

Here is an attempt, Gemini Saga spam with his 100,000,000 sense removing blows a second, while Superman is busy avoiding the blows, Defteros will use his Memory-Erasing technique, while Aspros & Kanon will use the GenRouMaouKen. No matter how much mind-attack Resistance he might have, this will probably have a slight effect to slow him down, once slowed, Aspros spam with Galaxian Explosion while the rest Athena Exclamation. Another attempt Kanon spam Superman with millions of blows while the remaining three unleash Athena Exclamation. I don't know if Superman can survive a Big Bang or not! Another attempt Saga & Aspros absorb Superman's energy attacks and repel them. while Kanon & Defteros spam with Galaxian Explosion! It's true their normal blows cant be compared to Planet Busters, but getting hit by 400,000,000+ blows a second is nasty.

I wonder, can Superman survive in the Paths of the Gods that could easily erase Gold Cloths since he is not a God as far as I remember or of a divine nature?


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## Runeblue360 (Mar 6, 2013)

Or superman could be smart and ,y'know, attack them.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 6, 2013)

Gemini saints also have powerful illusions and attacks that hit directly the soul, and dimensional BFR aswell.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> Why you are doing this?
> 
> It's really hard to defeat someone who can destroy a solar system simply by sneezing!? Correct me if I am wrong, IIRC I did read in your post he didn't have a major issue getting hit by an attack having a force of 100 Galaxies? so probably if the four Gemini Saints used the Galaxian Explosion at the same time wouldn't be a problem I guess (That's why I wished if Cain was included)
> 
> Well being Gemini Saints fan, why not participate and see how this will end. I guess the Gold Saints reaction speed at least on par with Superman, even if Superman was faster, dealing with 4 Gold Saints who are FTL+ at the same time might be problem.



I doubt it, he has speed feats that go beyond anything they could imagine, like bursting the bounds of the multiverse and infinity to almost reach Heaven.



> He probably will survive Galaxian Explosion, but can he survive his spirit getting hit by Galaxian Explosion!? (Saga & Defteros). What about Memory-erasing resistance?



They'd have to actually hit him first. Not to mention he resisted a power that telepathically enslaved the human race.



> Here is an attempt, Gemini Saga spam with his 100,000,000 sense removing blows a second, while Superman is busy avoiding the blows



More like he would do what Kenshiro did to Hyoh and KO him with one punch moving far faster than his many punches.



> Defteros will use his Memory-Erasing technique, while Aspros & Kanon will use the GenRouMaouKen. No matter how much mind-attack Resistance he might have, this will probably have a slight effect to slow him down



Before or after he traps them in between a moment in time or sends them back to the Cretaceous period?



> once slowed, Aspros spam with Galaxian Explosion while the rest Athena Exclamation. Another attempt Kanon spam Superman with millions of blows while the remaining three unleash Athena Exclamation. I don't know if Superman can survive a Big Bang or not!



Superman tanks the actual Big Bang:







> Another attempt Saga & Aspros absorb Superman's energy attacks and repel them.



Or he just punches them.



> while Kanon & Defteros spam with Galaxian Explosion! It's true their normal blows cant be compared to Planet Busters, but getting hit by 400,000,000+ blows a second is nasty.



You're assuming he would stand still and let them. More likely he does something like this:






> I wonder, can Superman survive in the Paths of the Gods that could easily erase Gold Cloths since he is not a God as far as I remember or of a divine nature?



Takes a magic bolt derived from Zeus himself and says it's like a mosquito bite:

they're also big as fuck



HeavyMetalThunder said:


> Gemini saints also have powerful illusions and attacks that hit directly the soul, and dimensional BFR aswell.



Superman travels through dimensions at will, and trapped a god who can travel through dimensions too in a dimension he couldn't escape from.

Also shakes off a spell by spinning (lol):

they're also big as fuck


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## TehChron (Mar 6, 2013)

Thats insane.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

That's the best way to describe PC Supes.


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## TehChron (Mar 6, 2013)

Suddenly destroying a solar system with a sneeze doesn't seem like such an outlier anymore...


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## shade0180 (Mar 6, 2013)

It never was an outlier as far as I know since he had so many feats almost equal or above it


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## Majinsaga (Mar 6, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Thats insane.



More like just crappy writing.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

Silver age writers were smoking some good shit.


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## shade0180 (Mar 6, 2013)

Yea It was crappy writing. anyone knows that PC sup is so hax he can pull  new powers out of nowhere when the plot demands it...


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## TehChron (Mar 6, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> Silver age writers were smoking some good shit.



Damn, I wonder if Araki got a hold of their stash?


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## MAPSK (Mar 6, 2013)

TehChron said:


> Thats insane.



It's the Boyscout.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 6, 2013)

That's quite a bit above gold saint level.


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## Atem (Mar 6, 2013)

Interesting. 

I didn't know pre-crisis Superman could counter-act magic. I thought that was one of his weaknesses. Cool.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 6, 2013)

pre crisis has an answer for and answer. I would how would pre crisis flash would do fighting a gold saint?



Gwyn said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I didn't know pre-crisis Superman could counter-act magic. I thought that was one of his weaknesses. Cool.



dude he is retarded lol


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## OtherGalaxy (Mar 6, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> are we counting trash now?



One of the few characters in fiction to kill themselves before the match even starts.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 6, 2013)

OtherGalaxy said:


> One of the few characters in fiction to kill themselves before the match even starts.



nah, that was Scorpio Sonia, who had trouble with a Bronze Saint that hasn't even awakened his Seventh Sense yet  

she was a total noob and just wasn't Gold Saint material


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 6, 2013)

> nah, that was Scorpio Sonia, who had trouble with a Bronze Saint that hasn't even awakened his Seventh Sense yet



Omega gold saints were a bit crappy compared to classic/ND/G/LC. 'Cept for Genbu. He was a badass all along.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Mar 6, 2013)

dude, Sonia and Paradox were like the shit tier of the pile

they don't deserve to be associated with Gold Saints in general 

Amor, Genbu, Harbinger, Fudou, and Tokisada were impressive by most standards 

seriously, you can't expect me to believe that Harbinger can't beat Aldebaran, for example


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## OtherGalaxy (Mar 6, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> nah, that was Scorpio Sonia, who had trouble with a Bronze Saint that hasn't even awakened his Seventh Sense yet
> 
> she was a total noob and just wasn't Gold Saint material



Oh.
Well you knew who I had in mind 
Don't actually follow SS so when I hear trash and SS in the same sentence I just assume "That girl who got killed by her own Gold Cloth"


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## Heavenly King (Mar 6, 2013)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> dude, Sonia and Paradox were like the shit tier of the pile
> 
> they don't deserve to be associated with Gold Saints in general
> 
> ...



Did any of them have galaxy busting powers?


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 6, 2013)

> dude, Sonia and Paradox were like the shit tier of the pile
> 
> they don't deserve to be associated with Gold Saints in general
> 
> ...



Kind of forgot about Harbinger, he's seriously fucked up too, with his shadow logia thingy and dimensional BFR punches and whatnot. Tokisada was pretty generic IMO (talking about personality). Pretty much Haruto 2.0, but with cool powers. IMO he lost due to MASSIVE PIS. I mean, the guy who was supposed to cause a second big bang, has an unlimited supply of cosmo, and who can freely manipulate time, losing to a Naruto rip off who uses fucking shuriken and kunai? That was bullshit.

Sonia was meh. Paradox was just the worst thing I've ever seen in saint seiya. Fudou was fine I guess, gotta wait to say anything about Amor.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 6, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> I doubt it, he has speed feats that go beyond anything they could imagine, like bursting the bounds of the multiverse and infinity to almost reach Heaven.



Well, isn't that considered a traveling sleep, it's different than reflexes. We have those who can throw 100,000,000 blow a second and those who can see them, in a fight, have ever PC Superman showed such high speed exchange of blows? if yes and he is beyond anything they could imagine, I would like to ask why then you have created this thread without rules? e.g equal speed




> They'd have to actually hit him first. Not to mention he resisted a power that telepathically enslaved the human race.



enslaved the human race is different than slaving a high-tier Gold Saint. Aspros enslaved Defteros, it's true in the end with few words of Asmita he recovered but it took him long. 



> More like he would do what Kenshiro did to Hyoh and KO him with one punch moving far faster than his many punches.



Well, let's assume he punched one of the Gemini Saint, what if the 4 Gemini Saints just twisted time & Space + spammed him with their blows! 




> Before or after he traps them in between a moment in time or sends them back to the Cretaceous period?



As I said, Aspros could easily cancel the functions of time as I explained in different threads, he did so against Yoma who was controlling time at will. 



> Superman tanks the actual Big Bang:



Thanks for the scans, correct me, but it didn't seem to me he got it by the explosion. Remember, when the original Gold Saints unleashed their Athena Exclamation, they didn't turn to dust because they didn't receive the blast, the force, it wasn't connected, they were simply around a force of the Big Bang. 



> Or he just punches them.



Can Superman punches illusions? because Saga/Kanon can create Illusions and the illusions are capable of sending others to different dimension. Can he locate a hidden cosmo like how Saga located Kanon's cosmo while the later was hiding it. 



> You're assuming he would stand still and let them. More likely he does something like this:



How to zoom? I failed to find the zoom icon, I am old man  I can't read the text very well, can you explain what exactly happened?



> Takes a magic bolt derived from Zeus himself and says it's like a mosquito bite:
> 
> they're also big as fuck



We are not assuming Zeus from Marvel = Zeus from SS of course, right? plus if we are going to powerscale from Episode G, Aiolia defeated a Titan who created his own universe, Shura defeated another Titan on the same level, Saga probably is no weaker than the two mentioned Gold Saints. 



> Superman travels through dimensions at will, and trapped a god who can travel through dimensions too in a dimension he couldn't escape from.



Well Aspros sealed Kairos, traveling through dimension/time means nothing in this battle for both side I assume. I still don't know how he can survive in the Hyper Dimension if he doesn't have a divine nature? 

Again I am not saying the Gemini Saints can win this, but if the speed is equal I think they have a great chance. 



> IMO he lost due to MASSIVE PIS. I mean, the guy who was supposed to cause a second big bang, has an unlimited supply of cosmo, and who can freely manipulate time, losing to a Naruto rip off who uses fucking shuriken and kunai? That was bullshit.



I agree, but an interesting fact, most of the Gold Saints were defeated after getting hit by the 7th sense ultimate attack, However, Haruto had to use his ultimate attack to defeat Tokisada. I would really loved if Tokisada was the Gemini Saint instead of Paradox



> Omega gold saints were a bit crappy compared to classic/ND/G/LC. 'Cept for Genbu. He was a badass all along.



Personally I am satisfied with Kiki, Harbinger, Tokisada, Fudou, Genbu & Amor.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> Well, isn't that considered a traveling sleep, it's different than reflexes.



know

Besides, the same thing could be said about Saint Seiya, as their best speed feat comes from traveling across Hades' super dimension.



> We have those who can throw 100,000,000 blow a second and those who can see them, in a fight, have ever PC Superman showed such high speed exchange of blows?



It takes about 1.6 meters total to throw a punch and retract your arm, multiply by 100 million and then divide by 2 for 2 arms, you get 80,000,000 m/s, which is only equal to around 26.6% of c. Meanwhile you have Superman and vibrating his molecules as fast as the Flash while maintaining precise control:



Manuevers between light rays:

they're also big as fuck

Maneuvering at MFTL speed:




Searches the Earth for alien bombs, grabs them all, and throws them into another star system in split seconds:



With the Flash fighting these FTL creatures across the galaxy:

they're also big as fuck


 (note here how blasts that destroy a sun previously bounced off Supes harmlessly)




> if yes and he is beyond anything they could imagine, I would like to ask why then you have created this thread without rules? e.g equal speed



Well he's outnumbered and they have hax techniques. I can add more opponents if you like, such as the 3 other Gemini saints.



> enslaved the human race is different than slaving a high-tier Gold Saint. Aspros enslaved Defteros, it's true in the end with few words of Asmita he recovered but it took him long.



Point is he resisted telepathy that controlled 6 billion people.

He can also reverse a telepathic attack back on the user:

Link removed



> Well, let's assume he punched one of the Gemini Saint, what if the 4 Gemini Saints just twisted time & Space + spammed him with their blows!



Pulls people through dimensions:

they're also big as fuck

Warps an enemy to the end of the universe:

they're also big as fuck



> As I said, Aspros could easily cancel the functions of time as I explained in different threads, he did so against Yoma who was controlling time at will.



Not if their bodies are scattered throughout space and time:

they're also big as fuck



> Thanks for the scans, correct me, but it didn't seem to me he got it by the explosion. Remember, when the original Gold Saints unleashed their Athena Exclamation, they didn't turn to dust because they didn't receive the blast, the force, it wasn't connected, they were simply around a force of the Big Bang.



He went back in time to the actual Big Bang, survived it, and destroyed a structure that was tanking it with no damage.



> Can Superman punches illusions? because Saga/Kanon can create Illusions and the illusions are capable of sending others to different dimension. Can he locate a hidden cosmo like how Saga located Kanon's cosmo while the later was hiding it.



His senses let him detect someone from the very edge of the universe even while spacetime is being warped:

they're also big as fuck
they're also big as fuck



> How to zoom? I failed to find the zoom icon, I am old man  I can't read the text very well, can you explain what exactly happened?



ctrl++

He dodged the magic blasts by phasing backwards and forwards through time so he appeared intangible to them



> We are not assuming Zeus from Marvel = Zeus from SS of course, right?



No, but he's at least Skyfather level.



> plus if we are going to powerscale from Episode G, Aiolia defeated a Titan who created his own universe, Shura defeated another Titan on the same level, Saga probably is no weaker than the two mentioned Gold Saints.



Those were the one with seals... and if you want to use powerscaling, Superman and Supergirl were hurting the Anti-Monitor, who was multiversal (and Superman was the one who finished him off).



> Well Aspros sealed Kairos, traveling through dimension/time means nothing in this battle for both side I assume. I still don't know how he can survive in the Hyper Dimension if he doesn't have a divine nature?



The same way he survived in the Big Bang, or in this nightmare dimension:

they're also big as fuck
they're also big as fuck


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## OtherGalaxy (Mar 6, 2013)

> The same way he survived in the Big Bang,


Isn't this pretty one-sided then?


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## Endless Mike (Mar 6, 2013)

Not really. Like I said, they outnumber him and have hax techniques. I currently can't find any soul resistance feats for him (although there probably are some).


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## Heavenly King (Mar 6, 2013)

well it would really matter, who get's who first then?


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## Bullbob (Mar 6, 2013)

From what I can see he's faster than them and can physically one shot them. So the question is can he speedblitz tall 4 before 1 of the 4 soulfuck him (since we haven' seen soul attack resistance)?? That travelling so fast he almost went to heaven is great but have we quantified it??  My guess is it probably makes him fast enough to speedblitz all of them. Might need to add more saints to make this more interesting.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> Not really. Like I said, they outnumber him and have hax techniques. I currently can't find any soul resistance feats for him (although there probably are some)



He doesn't need soul resistance if he can just speedblitz and punch their heads off.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

> Besides, the same thing could be said about Saint Seiya, as their best speed feat comes from traveling across Hades' super dimension.



Yeah you are absolutely right, I don’t think there is anyone around here saying their traveling speed is equal to their combat speed and reflexes. For example Ikki in his fight against Shaka IIRC travelled trillions light years/galaxies (I don’t remember well) but his combat speed wasn’t the same.



> Meanwhile you have Superman and vibrating his molecules as fast as the Flash while maintaining precise control:
> 
> know





> Manuevers between light rays:
> 
> they're also big as fuck



The scan you posted says light-speed. In early stage of the manga, Saga without his cloth had reaction faster than light without his cloth without burning his cosmo, just a casual blow. 



> Maneuvering at MFTL speed:
> 
> know
> know



Again the scans only show Superman while they were following each other’s not fighting, it’s quite different, also we can’t be sure, maybe the speed described is the limit the author can think of! I mean some characters say you will reach the absolute zero, the maximum state…etc however we see Thanatos for example saying that Hyoga needs hundred times colder than Absolute Zero (I know it doesn’t make sense) but If you ask me the scan you posted doesn’t till speed of battle in exchanging blows. 



> Searches the Earth for alien bombs, grabs them all, and throws them into another star system in split seconds:
> 
> know



Again this is a flying speed, how this can help him avoiding 400,000,000+ blows a second? 



> With the Flash fighting these FTL creatures across the galaxy:
> 
> they're also big as fuck
> know
> ...



Mike, I am not being rude, but where is the fight you are talking about? 



> Well he's outnumbered and they have hax techniques. I can add more opponents if you like, such as the 3 other Gemini saints.



You know Superman better than me, and you probably know what the Saints can do, adding thousands of Gemini Saints wouldn’t be enough if they can’t even touch him in the first place! 



> He can also reverse a telepathic attack back on the user:
> 
> know



Impressive, again I still can’t compare the two opponents of Superman to the Gemini Saints! If you see the scan, it seems Superman will have a weak point there, if he for example trying to reverse Kanon & Saga’s telepathic attack, Aspros and Defteros can attack from behind, you are not assuming the two remaining Gold Saints will be standing still. 



> Pulls people through dimensions:
> 
> they're also big as fuck



Well I would say Defteros did the same when he helped Libra Dohko. Aspros moved a whole place to different dimensions at the speed of light. I don’t think the Gemini Saints are any less than Superman in this field, field of reality warping, space-time twisting…etc



> Warps an enemy to the end of the universe:
> 
> they're also big as fuck



I don’t think that’s an issue, I mean lesser Saints were able to perform such feats (Ikki took Shaka to the end of the universe IIRC, Tokisada who can’t be compared to Gemini Saints sent other Saints to end of time. The scan says far reaches of the universe, not end of the universe, are they the same?





> His senses let him detect someone from the very edge of the universe even while spacetime is being warped:
> 
> they're also big as fuck
> they're also big as fuck



Genbu sensed the Saints fighting in the end of time, Shun sensed cosmo from future while he was in the past. Their cosmo is certainly not on the same tier as top-tier Gold Saints like Aspros




> Not if their bodies are scattered throughout space and time:
> 
> they're also big as fuck



Again this is useless against the Saints if Aspros and Saga are on their side. 



> He went back in time to the actual Big Bang, survived it, and destroyed a structure that was tanking it with no damage.



What I understood, Superman just wanted to break through the pressure, and then the explosion occurred, was he in the center of that explosion? I mean received the explosion/blast force? Also If you see the scans, Superman said the light could blind him, can’t Saga remove the sense of sight? I mean he was capable of removing senses like Shaka without using a technique like Tenbu Horin but simply by pointing. 



> He dodged the magic blasts by phasing backwards and forwards through time so he appeared intangible to them



Well this is insane and could be trouble, how long he can stay sustain fighting in that state? Because if he can forever, I really don’t know how the Saints can fight him? The only chance is Aspros cancel the function of time, so the space they are fighting there is no time, meaning Superman or any other Saint can’t go back in time or future.

Thanks for the zooming trick 



> No, but he's at least Skyfather level.



That’s Zeus, but correct me, the one who was fighting Superman wasn’t Zeus but a weapon derived some of it’s powers from Zeus’ lightning, it’s like Aiolia having the lightning of Zeus, but certainly they are not the same power. 




> and if you want to use powerscaling, Superman and Supergirl were hurting the Anti-Monitor, who was multiversal (and Superman was the one who finished him off).



Well then if that’s the case, I can’t figure a way the Gemini Saints defeating Superman!



> The same way he survived in the Big Bang, or in this nightmare dimension:



Hmmm… so anyone can survive in another space/dimension can survive the Hyper Dimension described in SS?



> From what I can see he's faster than them and can physically one shot them



How can he one shot them? Does he have an attack the equals the force of Exploding Galaxies? Defteros survived Galaxian Explosion not once but more! Defteros is even weaker than Aspros. At least from the scans provided I didn’t see Superman attacking with a force of Exploding one galaxy? He certainly destroyed planets, moved planets easily, survived getting hit by attacks having force of Galaxies but does he have such attacks? I mean Shura survived Galaxian Explosion but he can’t unleash an attack that have the force of Exploding Galaxy. 



> He doesn't need soul resistance if he can just speedblitz and punch their heads off.



You are exactly saying the same thing some Bleach Fans told me, if Bleach characters given equal speed to Saga and the rest, they just chop their heads with their sword  



> Might need to add more saints to make this more interesting.



Well Mike said, they can’t imagine the speed of Superman, adding hundreds of Saints would be useless!


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> You are exactly saying the same thing some Bleach Fans told me, if Bleach characters given equal speed to Saga and the rest, they just chop their heads with their sword



That's what happens when you don't actually read saint seiya and you judge their powers just by how flashy their blasts look. Besides, speed equal means that their speed would be the same, so a saint could just dodge it, so that's bullshit no matter how you look at it. Even disregarding any single strength/power feat in the series (namely, Hyoga collapsing a massive iceberg at the beginning of the series, Misty collapsing part of mount fuji as a side effect of an earthquake done with just one finger, Moses splitting the sea with a punch, Kanon blowing up several planets with a suicide attack, Hades moving several planets around at the same time, which requires large planet level TK at least, and seiya & co being hit by his telekinesis without being torn apart etc), most gold saints could solo bleach with hax alone. Shaka, Camus, Saga, Shion, Mu and Aphrodite (just to name ones from classic manga) being the most obvious ones. Meh. But I've seen worse. There's this dude, who pops up here every now and then, called VectorPrime, who says that, without the speed advantage, One Piece characters would beat saint seiya characters, and that god tiers are, at best, life wipers, while gold saints are island level via chain reaction or some shit.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> That's what happens when you don't actually read saint seiya and you judge their powers just by how flashy their blasts look. Besides, speed equal means that their speed would be the same, so a saint could just dodge it, so that's bullshit no matter how you look at it. Even disregarding any single strength/power feat in the series (namely, Hyoga collapsing a massive iceberg at the beginning of the series, Misty collapsing part of mount fuji as a side effect of an earthquake done with just one finger, Moses splitting the sea with a punch, Kanon blowing up several planets with a suicide attack, Hades moving several planets around at the same time, which requires large planet level TK at least, and seiya & co being hit by his telekinesis without being torn apart etc), most gold saints could solo bleach with hax alone. Shaka, Camus, Saga, Shion, Mu and Aphrodite (just to name ones from classic manga) being the most obvious ones.



Well said man, I am aware of all the above, I quoted you because you reminded me of him, chopping the head of Gemini Saints wouldn't be easy even for Superman if the speed is equal, if we are not disregarding the protection and all the feats the Gemini Saints, specially Aspros, who literally was mocking someone who was toying with Divine Cloth Tenma + Shion, who created a Big Bang against Hades After Aiacos' fight (I am talking about Tenma even before he obtain the God Cloth), and Shion who (in Episode G) at least had the force of the Big Bang (and according to the same Manga, Saga is at least on the same level) No I am not yet going there, Saga creating a miracle like how Gold Saints are able to create miracles  



> Meh. But I've seen worse. There's this dude, who pops up here every now and then, called VectorPrime, who says that, without the speed advantage, One Piece characters would beat saint seiya characters, and that god tiers are, at best, life wipers, while gold saints are island level via chain reaction or some shit.



Buwahahahaha! Man I've been around movie lounge or whatever the name of that forums was, stating Saga's Galaxian Explosion can't even break a pillar!


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> Buwahahahaha! Man I've been around movie lounge or whatever the name of that forums was, stating Saga's Galaxian Explosion can't even break a pillar!



I bet that was El Matador. That guy keeps saying gold saints can move at mach 18 at best,  and that a bunch of man sized boulders falling on their head is enough to kill them. His reasoning is pretty much the same as VP. Speaking of which, they also disregard the hyperdimension crossing feat, because they say a wormhole teleported them to elysion, so they didn't have to move at all, while even in the manga Seiya says that the distorted space is dragging them away from elysion, and that they couldn't get there without flying. 




> Well said man, I am aware of all the above, I quoted you because you reminded me of him, chopping the head of Gemini Saints wouldn't be easy even for Superman if the speed is equal, if we are not disregarding the protection and all the feats the Gemini Saints, specially Aspros, who literally was mocking someone who was toying with Divine Cloth Tenma + Shion, who created a Big Bang against Hades After Aiacos' fight (I am talking about Tenma even before he obtain the God Cloth), and Shion who (in Episode G) at least had the force of the Big Bang (and according to the same Manga, Saga is at least on the same level) No I am not yet going there, Saga creating a miracle like how Gold Saints are able to create miracles



My point was that his speed is just massive, and he has enough raw power to win, not to mention he took the actual big bang head on, so it'd take a while for the 4 gemini saints to actually hurt him, unless they somehow manage to hit him with an athena exclamation or something.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

> I bet that was El Matador. That guy keeps saying gold saints can move at mach 18 at best, and that a bunch of man sized boulders falling on their head is enough to kill them. His reasoning is pretty much the same as VP. Speaking of which, they also disregard the hyperdimension crossing feat, because they say a wormhole teleported them to elysion, so they didn't have to move at all, while even in the manga Seiya says that the distorted space is dragging them away from elysion, and that they couldn't get there without flying.



Well I don't remember the guy, but for them DBZ >>> above anything else. About the HyperDimension it's not teleport, they had to reach the light, otherwise Athena and the others could have easily teleported to Elysion. Ikki during the Sanctuary battle could do similar feat, when he was trying to escape Shaka's cosmo, running away through galaxies, quadrillions degrees away, and he could have done more, but he thought going that far away was enough to escape Shaka's cosmo, however it wasn't enough. (Just for clarification, it was Ikki's soul traveling) in some crappy translations which some SS wankers uses as their base, says he reached the end of the universe which is contradicting with the official translation + raw that I own. I am sure you are aware how much Ikki & The Bronze Saints evolved since then. It's beyond imagination. It's just because some PIS those Bleachtards, DBZ Fanboys are downgrading the saints. 



> Not to mention he took the actual big bang head on



I am still not sure about that, read my two comments earlier for explanation. He wasn't actually get hit by the blast/explosion or as some says it wasn't connected. Also I am sure you are aware that Shaka turned to dust after getting hit by Athena Exclamation yet he was able to return for few moments. Aspros' soul is immortal, without Hades' time restriction, without seal I doubt he can be killed easily. Rhadamanthys survived attack stronger than Big Bang, and he got owned pretty easily by Alone and compare Alone's expression when Aspros was going to lunch his Galaxian Explosion  while I know they can never defeat Superman if they fought him alone, but here we are talking about 4 at high tier+ Gold Saints.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> Well I don't remember the guy, but for them DBZ >>> above anything else. About the HyperDimension it's not teleport, they had to reach the light, otherwise Athena and the others could have easily teleported to Elysion. Ikki during the Sanctuary battle could do similar feat, when he was trying to escape Shaka's cosmo, running away through galaxies, quadrillions degrees away, and he could have done more, but he thought going that far away was enough to escape Shaka's cosmo, however it wasn't enough. (Just for clarification, it was Ikki's soul traveling) in some crappy translations which some SS wankers uses as their base, says he reached the end of the universe which is contradicting with the official translation + raw that I own. I am sure you are aware how much Ikki & The Bronze Saints evolved since then. It's beyond imagination. It's just because some PIS those Bleachtards, DBZ Fanboys are downgrading the saints.



Yeah, but even there most of the members agree that saint seiya>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DBZ. It's just a few downplayers, really. I guess SS is underrated due to the lack of flashy explosions and blurry motion lines.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

Anyone got scans of these guys in action Kanon,
Saga,Defteros and Aspros


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## Nardo6670 (Mar 7, 2013)

Finally, a Pre Crises Superman topic on the regular OBD that doesn't get locked.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

Heavenly King said:


> Anyone got scans of these guys in action Kanon,
> Saga,Defteros and Aspros



Kanon's suicide feat:



He did it without his cloth on, which means he wasn't using his full power, singe cloths can give massive power boosts.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

Bullbob said:


> From what I can see he's faster than them and can physically one shot them. So the question is can he speedblitz tall 4 before 1 of the 4 soulfuck him (since we haven' seen soul attack resistance)?? That travelling so fast he almost went to heaven is great but have we quantified it??  My guess is it probably makes him fast enough to speedblitz all of them. Might need to add more saints to make this more interesting.



He was passing beyond the multiverse, and crossing universes in infinitesimal instants.



DarkLordDragon said:


> The scan you posted says light-speed. In early stage of the manga, Saga without his cloth had reaction faster than light without his cloth without burning his cosmo, just a casual blow.



I'm just showing his reactions and maneuvering at high speeds. He was weakened then too. 



> Again the scans only show Superman while they were following each other’s not fighting, it’s quite different,



Wrong, he was able to perceive his opponent and maneuver around him at that speed, meaning he can react at that speed.



> also we can’t be sure, maybe the speed described is the limit the author can think of! I mean some characters say you will reach the absolute zero, the maximum state…etc however we see Thanatos for example saying that Hyoga needs hundred times colder than Absolute Zero (I know it doesn’t make sense) but If you ask me the scan you posted doesn’t till speed of battle in exchanging blows.



Bullshit fallacy, if he can move, perceive, and react at MFTL speeds (and he has move billions of light-years in nanoseconds before) than he can fight at those speeds.



> Again this is a flying speed, how this can help him avoiding 400,000,000+ blows a second?





The reactions to search everywhere on the planet, locate the bombs, and find them at that speed doesn't mean anything? Don't pull this Phenomenol "he wasn't punching so he wasn't reacting" bullshit.



> Mike, I am not being rude, but where is the fight you are talking about?



 Search "anachronids"



> You know Superman better than me, and you probably know what the Saints can do, adding thousands of Gemini Saints wouldn’t be enough if they can’t even touch him in the first place!



But you're arguing for them...



> Impressive, again I still can’t compare the two opponents of Superman to the Gemini Saints! If you see the scan, it seems Superman will have a weak point there, if he for example trying to reverse Kanon & Saga’s telepathic attack, Aspros and Defteros can attack from behind, you are not assuming the two remaining Gold Saints will be standing still.



You assume Superman would stand still too... no need to move in that scan if no one else was attacking him.



> Well I would say Defteros did the same when he helped Libra Dohko. Aspros moved a whole place to different dimensions at the speed of light. I don’t think the Gemini Saints are any less than Superman in this field, field of reality warping, space-time twisting…etc



Moves the entire population of Earth onto another dimensional plane while fighting the Galactic Golem:





> I don’t think that’s an issue, I mean lesser Saints were able to perform such feats (Ikki took Shaka to the end of the universe IIRC, Tokisada who can’t be compared to Gemini Saints sent other Saints to end of time. The scan says far reaches of the universe, not end of the universe, are they the same?



Yes...



> Genbu sensed the Saints fighting in the end of time, Shun sensed cosmo from future while he was in the past. Their cosmo is certainly not on the same tier as top-tier Gold Saints like Aspros



Supergirl (who has the same powers) did this just with vision.



> Again this is useless against the Saints if Aspros and Saga are on their side.



I don't see how. He can take them between moments in time and they will cease to exist.



> What I understood, Superman just wanted to break through the pressure, and then the explosion occurred, was he in the center of that explosion? I mean received the explosion/blast force?



The Big Bang is not an explosion, it's an expansion of timespace. Back at the moment of the Big Bang the entire universe was "in the center" of it, because there was no center, it was the entire universe. It even says he was subjected to it:



(yes, he survived, the only trouble was when he destroyed that pyramid it altered time and reality but he still came back).



> Also If you see the scans, Superman said the light could blind him, can’t Saga remove the sense of sight? I mean he was capable of removing senses like Shaka without using a technique like Tenbu Horin but simply by pointing.



That was the light of the Big Bang, kind of above any normal light...



> Well this is insane and could be trouble, how long he can stay sustain fighting in that state?



I don't know. Time travel is effortless for him, though.



> Because if he can forever, I really don’t know how the Saints can fight him? The only chance is Aspros cancel the function of time, so the space they are fighting there is no time, meaning Superman or any other Saint can’t go back in time or future.



If there was no time, everything would be frozen. Besides, he was able to alter the timelines of the universe just as a side effect of fighting, after the Time Trapper destroyed and altered every alternate timeline he fixed it:





> That’s Zeus, but correct me, the one who was fighting Superman wasn’t Zeus but a weapon derived some of it’s powers from Zeus’ lightning, it’s like Aiolia having the lightning of Zeus, but certainly they are not the same power.



Yes, basically. Although that guy (Zha-Vam) had the powers of many other gods as well.



> Well then if that’s the case, I can’t figure a way the Gemini Saints defeating Superman!



Genrou Mao Ken might stun him, Athena Exclamation might hurt him a bit, and attacking his soul would probably be effective.



> Hmmm… so anyone can survive in another space/dimension can survive the Hyper Dimension described in SS?



The Big Bang and the dimension full of cosmic horrors Blackstarr send them to are hardly just any random dimensions... besides, the Spectre had to stop him before he broke down the barrier to Heaven itself, where only pure souls of the afterlife, angels, and God (The Presence) can normally go.



> How can he one shot them? Does he have an attack the equals the force of Exploding Galaxies? Defteros survived Galaxian Explosion not once but more! Defteros is even weaker than Aspros. At least from the scans provided I didn’t see Superman attacking with a force of Exploding one galaxy?  He certainly destroyed planets, moved planets easily, survived getting hit by attacks having force of Galaxies but does he have such attacks? I mean Shura survived Galaxian Explosion but he can’t unleash an attack that have the force of Exploding Galaxy.



Like I said, he physically destroyed that pyramid that was surviving in the middle of the Big Bang with no damage. So his punches can do more damage than the Big Bang. He can also punch people through time:

 even "sideways" through time, aka to an alternate timeline).



Or to another universe:



Pretty sure the Saints can't come back if they suddenly find themselves a billion years in the past.



> You are exactly saying the same thing some Bleach Fans told me, if Bleach characters given equal speed to Saga and the rest, they just chop their heads with their sword



Except Superman actually has the power to do it.



DarkLordDragon said:


> Well said man, I am aware of all the above, I quoted you because you reminded me of him, chopping the head of Gemini Saints wouldn't be easy even for Superman if the speed is equal, if we are not disregarding the protection and all the feats the Gemini Saints, specially Aspros, who literally was mocking someone who was toying with Divine Cloth Tenma + Shion, who created a Big Bang against Hades After Aiacos' fight (I am talking about Tenma even before he obtain the God Cloth), and Shion who (in Episode G) at least had the force of the Big Bang (and according to the same Manga, Saga is at least on the same level) No I am not yet going there, Saga creating a miracle like how Gold Saints are able to create miracles



Miracles? Superman comes back from being erased from time because people believe in him:



How's that for a miracle?



DarkLordDragon said:


> Well I don't remember the guy, but for them DBZ >>> above anything else. About the HyperDimension it's not teleport, they had to reach the light, otherwise Athena and the others could have easily teleported to Elysion. Ikki during the Sanctuary battle could do similar feat, when he was trying to escape Shaka's cosmo, running away through galaxies, quadrillions degrees away, and he could have done more, but he thought going that far away was enough to escape Shaka's cosmo, however it wasn't enough. (Just for clarification, it was Ikki's soul traveling) in some crappy translations which some SS wankers uses as their base, says he reached the end of the universe which is contradicting with the official translation + raw that I own. I am sure you are aware how much Ikki & The Bronze Saints evolved since then. It's beyond imagination. It's just because some PIS those Bleachtards, DBZ Fanboys are downgrading the saints.



They do tend to do that 



> I am still not sure about that, read my two comments earlier for explanation. He wasn't actually get hit by the blast/explosion or as some says it wasn't connected.



Superman? Yes, he was.



> Also I am sure you are aware that Shaka turned to dust after getting hit by Athena Exclamation yet he was able to return for few moments. Aspros' soul is immortal, without Hades' time restriction, without seal I doubt he can be killed easily. Rhadamanthys survived attack stronger than Big Bang, and he got owned pretty easily by Alone and compare Alone's expression when Aspros was going to lunch his Galaxian Explosion  while I know they can never defeat Superman if they fought him alone, but here we are talking about 4 at high tier+ Gold Saints.



That's what sending them through time can do.


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## Bullbob (Mar 7, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> Well, isn't that considered a traveling sleep, it's different than reflexes. We have those who can throw 100,000,000 blow a second and those who can see them, in a fight, have ever PC Superman showed such high speed exchange of blows? if yes and he is beyond anything they could imagine, I would like to ask why then you have created this thread without rules? e.g equal speed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now I don't want to accuse you of wanking Saint Seya or downplaying Supes (you seemed at least a bit reasonnable in your other thread about Defteros against Marvel even if you were very uninformed specially about guys like Mephisto or Atum) but you are really misinterpreting many things in that response. There is no doubt whatsoever that Supes tanked the Big Bang. You see him going in it to destroy the machinerie that was itself tanking the big bang (if you pushed the reasonning further you might even say Supes has Big Bang + physical dc since he destroyed something the Big bang couldn't but I won't go there).

Secondly you seem to have no clue about the difference between combat speed, travel speed and reactions. You somehow claim that going around the world many times faster than light speed finding bombs, taking them out of their location and then throwing them in outter space is only travel speed, or that maneuvering between light rays are only travel speed?? He's doing  complex actions and reacting in all of those scans while going far faster than light  so how can you even claim it is only travel speed?? If it was only travel speed he couldn't act/react during that movement.

Also Mike maybe you can post that scan of Clark moving in a Specter made time dilation field  and moving at normal speed and having a regular conversation with Specter and Hal Jordan (at least I think it was him).


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

That one was actually Post-Crisis, although Pre-Crisis Supes would also be able to do that easily.


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> The Big Bang and the dimension full of cosmic horrors Blackstarr send them to are hardly just any random dimensions... besides, the Spectre had to stop him before he broke down the barrier to Heaven itself, where only pure souls of the afterlife, angels, and God (The Presence) can normally go.



It's a bit different. The superdimension is made with the only purpose of annihilating anything that is not blessed by the gods, no matter how powerful or durable. That's why the bronze saints could go through it, because they had their cloths restored with Athena's blood, while Minos, one of the hell judges, who was no selling attacks from Hyoga and was clearly more powerful than the main cast, was literally turned to nothingness in seconds. Space and time are constantly distorted to paralyze and drag away anyone that goes in there, and in a short time they just disappear in a flash of light, and nothing of them is left.

Just to let you know how powerful that poor Minos dude was, right before being annihilated by the dimension, he smashed an ice wall with a generic punch. An ice wall is a variant of the ice coffin, which, as it was stated several times, by several characters, can withstand the combined power of several gold saints.


On topic: this thread is obviously one sided.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah, I know about the superdimension, but I think the things Superman has gone through would mean he could survive it.


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## ssjsuperman (Mar 7, 2013)

Looking at this thread it seems that superman is much faster and has greater striking power then anyone in SS, and his feat's  else suggest's he is above any GS who's only advantage being some hex or attack power all of which does not matter if there to slow to hit him.

At the moment i'm going with PCS beating this regardless of the saint and how many there are.


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## TehChron (Mar 7, 2013)

Space time twisting isnt much when you can tank the big bang.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

> Wrong, he was able to perceive his opponent and maneuver around him at that speed, meaning he can react at that speed.



Well I don’t know how to really explain it, it was almost one direction, if you saw Aiolia’s Lightning Plasma for example, he send blows from different directions like the Infinity Break, that’s why he need to react against them. 



> he has move billions of light-years in nanoseconds before) than he can fight at those speeds.



If that’s the case and the Saints can’t touch him, you are being mean by not having an equal speed rule! 



> But you're arguing for them...



I am doing that with the assumption that the gap between their speed isn’t that great, and from the scans I saw it was mentioned lightspeed, and then the argument of travel speed…etc if what I said about the scans was wrong and you are right, It’s pointless and it seems by the post, you are showing me more feats of Superman  that’s why my opinion will be changed the more I know 



> I don't see how. He can take them between moments in time and they will cease to exist.



I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but you know Youma he reversed Aspros to a time before he existed but thanks to Hades’ resurrected to him, it was useless against him. 



> It even says he was subjected to it:



You should have posted this scan first time I asked! So now Superman can survive Big Bang, can move faster than the saints can imagine! Seems fair fight!



> That was the light of the Big Bang, kind of above any normal light...



Question, will senses removal work against him? 



> Genrou Mao Ken might stun him, Athena Exclamation might hurt him a bit, and attacking his soul would probably be effective.



I agree but Mike, if they can’t even touch him (Invisible) or he is simply way faster, there is no way they can touch him in the first place! 



> Pretty sure the Saints can't come back if they suddenly find themselves a billion years in the past.



Yeah I agree, but not Aspros, however for the sake of argument if Aspros returned alone, he have no chance to give Superman a battle with what you showed us so far 



> Miracles? Superman comes back from being erased from time because people believe in him:
> 
> 
> 
> How's that for a miracle?



Amazing! 



> Now I don't want to accuse you of wanking Saint Seya or downplaying Supes (you seemed at least a bit reasonnable in your other thread about Defteros against Marvel even if you were very uninformed specially about guys like Mephisto or Atum) but you are really misinterpreting many things in that response. There is no doubt whatsoever that Supes tanked the Big Bang.



Hi Bullbob, well I am not wanking Saint Seiya nor downplaying Superman, but some of the scans are misleading, and needs explanation, after all not all of us share the same amount of understanding I guess. If you read our conversation, the more Mike show me feats the more I see there is no chance for the Saints, I am simply asking Mike about the scans he is posting and showing the counterpart of the feats he is showing for the Saints (e.g returning after being reversed to a time before one exists, Big Bang force…etc)



> You somehow claim that going around the world many times faster than light speed finding bombs, taking them out of their location and then throwing them in outter space is only travel speed, or that maneuvering between light rays are only travel speed??
> He's doing complex actions and reacting in all of those scans while going far faster than light so how can you even claim it is only travel speed??



Read my reply to Mike, I am not sure if you saw Saint Seiya or not, but when I see 100,000,000 blows a second, it’s not one direction, they attack from all kind direction (e.g Aiolia’s Lightning Plasma, Shura’s Excalibur in Episode G, Saga’s blows…etc) even though I think we all think Saga is faster than Shura yet he couldn’t dodge Shura’s attack? Why? Because there was no way to dodge someone who attack in all direction giving no place to run To, so for Superman to fight 4 High Tier Gold Saints, capable of throwing such blows would be nasty but this will also be useless since Mike just proved Superman can go invisible and Aspros canceling the function of time wouldn’t work so they don’t have chance.



> Space time twisting isnt much when you can tank the big bang.



Well I agree...


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> Kanon's suicide feat:
> 
> 
> 
> He did it without his cloth on, which means he wasn't using his full power, singe cloths can give massive power boosts.



Yea I seen this one before. No more attacks that are powerful then this from the guys who are battling here?



ssjsuperman said:


> Looking at this thread it seems that superman is much faster and has greater striking power then anyone in SS, and his feat's  else suggest's he is above any GS who's only advantage being some hex or attack power all of which does not matter if there to slow to hit him.
> 
> At the moment i'm going with PCS beating this regardless of the saint and how many there are.



Well said man


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> Yea I seen this one before. No more attacks that are powerful then this from the guys who are battling here?



Kanon is likely the weakest saint in this thread, but this is the best destructive feat you're going to see (at least from classic series/ND) because usually saints focus their cosmo so that they destroy single atoms, which means that even massive cosmo blasts will only destroy a wall or leave a small crater in the ground more often than not.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

Heavenly King said:


> Yea I seen this one before. No more attacks that are powerful then this from the guys who are battling here?



Well the scan you saw probably not as strong as Athena Exclamation which have a force of the Big Bang in small scale (Which means you will not see the destruction of the universe). Among the Gold Saints the strongest attacks are of Leo Regulus being one with the nature, who was able with a punch to create a whole in someone who tanked Zodiac Exclamation, a technique even stronger than Athena Exclamation. Comes next Zodiac Exclamation.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> Kanon is likely the weakest saint in this thread, but this is the best destructive feat you're going to see (at least from classic series/ND) because usually saints focus their cosmo so that they destroy single atoms, which means that even massive cosmo blasts will only destroy a wall or leave a small crater in the ground more often than not.




Hmm I see



DarkLordDragon said:


> Well the scan you saw probably not as strong as Athena Exclamation which have a force of the Big Bang in small scale (Which means you will not see the destruction of the universe). Among the Gold Saints the strongest attacks are of Leo Regulus being one with the nature, who was able with a punch to create a whole in someone who tanked Zodiac Exclamation, a technique even stronger than Athena Exclamation. Comes next Zodiac Exclamation.



Can i see scans of this attack?


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> Kanon is likely the weakest saint in this thread, but this is the best destructive feat you're going to see (at least from classic series/ND) because usually saints focus their cosmo so that they destroy single atoms, which means that even massive cosmo blasts will only destroy a wall or leave a small crater in the ground more often than not.



Well I am not sure if the giants created by Iapetus Dunamis are accepted here, remember when Iapetus created his universe, with the stars, shrink the planet...etc thanks to his Dunamis giants formed and it seemed each one of had galaxies on their bodies and eyes. If that considered real galaxies (at least in Iapetus universe) then we need to rank the attacks again but most likely it's not.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> Well I don’t know how to really explain it, it was almost one direction, if you saw Aiolia’s Lightning Plasma for example, he send blows from different directions like the Infinity Break, that’s why he need to react against them.



Do you know what reactions are? He can perceive, react, and move at those speeds, that means he can fight at those speeds. 



> If that’s the case and the Saints can’t touch him, you are being mean by not having an equal speed rule!



That can be scenario 2.



> I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but you know Youma he reversed Aspros to a time before he existed but thanks to Hades’ resurrected to him, it was useless against him.



That's completely different, I'm talking about being trapped between moments of time.



> You should have posted this scan first time I asked! So now Superman can survive Big Bang, can move faster than the saints can imagine! Seems fair fight!



They can have powers that rival the Big Bang though.



> Question, will senses removal work against him?



I don't know, considering he has senses far beyond any human and types of senses people can't even comprehend... considering that in Saint Seiya though the 6th sense includes the mind, his mental resistance feats could help him out in that department.



> I agree but Mike, if they can’t even touch him (Invisible) or he is simply way faster, there is no way they can touch him in the first place!



So I added a second scenario.



> Yeah I agree, but not Aspros, however for the sake of argument if Aspros returned alone, he have no chance to give Superman a battle with what you showed us so far



He was able to counter his enemy's time manipulation, but can he travel through time on his own accord? Also what if he is sent to another universe or an alternate timeline?



> Hi Bullbob, well I am not wanking Saint Seiya nor downplaying Superman, but some of the scans are misleading, and needs explanation, after all not all of us share the same amount of understanding I guess. If you read our conversation, the more Mike show me feats the more I see there is no chance for the Saints, I am simply asking Mike about the scans he is posting and showing the counterpart of the feats he is showing for the Saints (e.g returning after being reversed to a time before one exists, Big Bang force…etc)



It's not really that the scans were misleading, more like you were misinterpreting them.



> Read my reply to Mike, I am not sure if you saw Saint Seiya or not, but when I see 100,000,000 blows a second, it’s not one direction, they attack from all kind direction (e.g Aiolia’s Lightning Plasma, Shura’s Excalibur in Episode G, Saga’s blows…etc) even though I think we all think Saga is faster than Shura yet he couldn’t dodge Shura’s attack? Why? Because there was no way to dodge someone who attack in all direction giving no place to run To, so for Superman to fight 4 High Tier Gold Saints, capable of throwing such blows would be nasty but this will also be useless since Mike just proved Superman can go invisible and Aspros canceling the function of time wouldn’t work so they don’t have chance.



Even if he couldn't do that he would still be able to react to those attacks. The direction doesn't matter, after all they only have two arms, so at most he only has to block/evade two punches at a time. Or just move before an energy attack can surround him in the first place.


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## ssjsuperman (Mar 7, 2013)

Also typhoon destroying mountains just by him being so big is a fairy good feat.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

I don't mean to go off topic. Zeus and Odin can beat some of the Gold Saints right?


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## ssjsuperman (Mar 7, 2013)

Zeus odin from marvel or SS?


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

> That can be scenario 2.



If we go by this scenario, then I think my initial attempt would be highly effective against him



> That's completely different, I'm talking about being trapped between moments of time.



Hmmm! I don’t remember what you are describing ever used against Gemini Saints, so I don’t know. 



> They can have powers that rival the Big Bang though.



He survived it, I am sure after that he even got more powerful, let’s assume the Gemini Saints used Athena Exclamation three times, would it be enough?



> but can he travel through time on his own accord? Also what if he is sent to another universe or an alternate timeline?



I really have no idea, I need to read what Youma’s Marvelous room do, because I don’t actually remember very well. However traveling through time on his own accord, probably not, Athena herself needed the help of Chronos to do so, I can’t imagine one of her Saints capable of such feat. 



> It's not really that the scans were misleading, more like you were misinterpreting them.



Probably yes, because most of you agreed he tanked I guess I misinterpreted them. 



> Also typhoon destroying mountains just by him being so big is a fairy good feat.



Most impressive feats if you ask me, those who defeated the Titans, like Iapetus, Krieos…



> I don't mean to go off topic. Zeus and Odin can beat some of the Gold Saints right?



I don't know about Zeus of Marvel, but I heard about Odin (Marvel) and if I remember well he was considered universal I think one need a Top Tier Gold Saint to fight Odin then maybe they can win If one vs one otherwise I think he can defeat them from what I know.


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## Bullbob (Mar 7, 2013)

ssjsuperman said:


> Zeus odin from marvel or SS?



Or even from DC???


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

Bullbob said:


> Or even from DC???



I would love to know more about them, I might find new opponents for the saints to fight. I am struggling to find good opponent for the Saints, I either find someone who can really defeat them easily or others who don't stand chance....

@Mike:
I think you should add all the feats you mentioned in this thread about Superman, in your Most powerful superheroes blog.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> If we go by this scenario, then I think my initial attempt would be highly effective against him



Maybe...



> He survived it, I am sure after that he even got more powerful, let?s assume the Gemini Saints used Athena Exclamation three times, would it be enough?



Well that's subjecting him to the same amount of force three times, he was in the Big Bang itself for a longer time... to actually kill him they would probably need multiple simultaneous AEs.



> I really have no idea, I need to read what Youma?s Marvelous room do, because I don?t actually remember very well. However traveling through time on his own accord, probably not, Athena herself needed the help of Chronos to do so, I can?t imagine one of her Saints capable of such feat.



Then temporal BFR would work.



> I don't know about Zeus of Marvel, but I heard about Odin (Marvel) and if I remember well he was considered universal I think one need a Top Tier Gold Saint to fight Odin then maybe they can win If one vs one otherwise I think he can defeat them from what I know.



Marvel Zeus is considered to be either on par or slightly weaker than Odin, Odin has a lot of hax like soul manipulation/destruction, time stop, time travel, transmutation, teleportation throughout dimensions, able to create/destroy energy and matter, causality manipulation, is not bound by time and space, could create/destroy and seal off dimensions, change the laws of physics... he can destroy galaxies across the universe just as a side effect of fighting in another dimension. His best feat would be the recent one where he absorbed all the power Surtur gathered that would destroy the multiverse, but that might be an outlier.



DarkLordDragon said:


> I would love to know more about them, I might find new opponents for the saints to fight. I am struggling to find good opponent for the Saints, I either find someone who can really defeat them easily or others who don't stand chance....
> 
> @Mike:
> I think you should add all the feats you mentioned in this thread about Superman, in your Most powerful superheroes blog.



Eh, they're available in his respect thread.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

ssjsuperman said:


> Zeus odin from marvel or SS?



from marvel ssj


Marvel Zeus is considered to be either on par or slightly weaker than Odin, Odin has a lot of hax like soul manipulation/destruction, time stop, time travel, transmutation, teleportation throughout dimensions, able to create/destroy energy and matter, causality manipulation, is not bound by time and space, could create/destroy and seal off dimensions, change the laws of physics... he can destroy galaxies across the universe just as a side effect of fighting in another dimension. His best feat would be the recent one where he absorbed all the power Surtur gathered that would destroy the multiverse, but that might be an outlier.

Marvel Zeus is par with Odin and yes I seen that feat in your blog.


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 7, 2013)

Do we have Odin vs Pre-Crisis Superman Thread? from what you said, Odin is probably above any Gold Saints, one vs one he would defeat them all, maybe Leo Regulus could bother him. If you remember days back we were discussing Forsung vs Aspros, I am assuming Odin >>>>>>>>>> Forsung, am I correct?



> Eh, they're available in his respect thread.



I don't remember reading about the Big Bang feat there, sigh, I am really getting old...


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> I would love to know more about them, I might find new opponents for the saints to fight. I am struggling to find good opponent for the Saints, I either find someone who can really defeat them easily or others who don't stand chance....
> 
> @Mike:
> I think you should add all the feats you mentioned in this thread about Superman, in your Most powerful superheroes blog.




I have tons you can test your luck with



DarkLordDragon said:


> Do we have Odin vs Pre-Crisis Superman Thread? from what you said, Odin is probably above any Gold Saints, one vs one he would defeat them all, maybe Leo Regulus could bother him. If you remember days back we were discussing Forsung vs Aspros, I am assuming Odin >>>>>>>>>> Forsung, am I correct?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember reading about the Big Bang feat there, sigh, I am really getting old...




I don't know if that thread was ever made tell you the truth.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah, Odin killed Forsung. The Big Bang feat was just recently added to the thread on KMC.


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> Yeah, Odin killed Forsung. The Big Bang feat was just recently added to the thread on KMC.



That's the book when Thor killed Surtur with that sword


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## HeavyMetalThunder (Mar 7, 2013)

> I really have no idea, I need to read what Youma’s Marvelous room do, because I don’t actually remember very well. However traveling through time on his own accord, probably not, Athena herself needed the help of Chronos to do so, I can’t imagine one of her Saints capable of such feat.



Yeah, it was clearly stated that Chronos is the only being in existence that can manipulate time, so time fuckery is definitely going to work with them.



> That can be scenario 2.



Well, with speed equal they outnumber him and can hit directly his soul. That + sense removal, which includes shutting down the brain, might put him down. Though Shaka is better at this kind of shit.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 7, 2013)

Heavenly King said:


> That's the book when Thor killed Surtur with that sword



Everything Burns


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## Heavenly King (Mar 7, 2013)

Endless Mike said:


> Everything Burns



Loki stole the shadow of twilight and gave to Thor so he can use it to kill Surtur


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## DarkLordDragon (Mar 8, 2013)

Heavenly King said:


> I have tons you can test your luck with
> 
> I don't know if that thread was ever made tell you the truth.



Why dont you create a thread in Respect Section for some of them? Or write blog posts like Mike did for the Superheroes? I would prefer if you can find me some on the Gold Saints or High Tier Specters level?


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## Heavenly King (Mar 8, 2013)

DarkLordDragon said:


> Why dont you create a thread in Respect Section for some of them? Or write blog posts like Mike did for the Superheroes? I would prefer if you can find me some on the Gold Saints or High Tier Specters level?



That's going to have to wait. I have my Gods, Hell Lords and God killers thread I am doing


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