# Strongest characters from the leaf village to date?



## dporter0127 (Oct 15, 2013)

My list goes 
1. First hokage 
2. Madara uchiha 
3a 2nd hokage
3b 3rd hokage
4. Naruto 
5 oro
6 itachi/minato
7 sauske 
8 jiriya
9 kakashi
10 tsunade 
What do you think?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 15, 2013)

1. Hashirama
2. Madara
3. Naruto
4. Sasuke
5. Itachi
6. Tobirama
7. Minato
8. Jiraiya/Orochimau
9. The Masters
10. Tsunade


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2013)

Hashirama/Naruto
Madara/Kyuubi Minato/PS? Sasuke
Tobirama/Minato
Kakashi/Itachi/Gai
The Sannin
Hiruzen


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## Mercurial (Oct 15, 2013)

today

1)  Obito
2) Hashirama / Madara
3) Naruto / Sasuke
4) Minato / Tobirama / Kakashi
5) Itachi / Gai
6) Sakumo / Izuna
7) Shisui / Orochimaru / Jiraiya
8) Hiruzen
9) Hiashi / Tsunade
10) Rock Lee / Neji / Asuma / Yamato / Shikamaru / Sakura

EoS probably

1) Naruto / Sasuke / Obito
2) Hashirama / Madara
3) Minato / Tobirama / Kakashi
4) Itachi / Gai 
5) Sakumo / Izuna
6) Shisui / Orochimaru / Jiraiya
7) Hiruzen
8) Rock Lee
9) Hiashi / Tsunade / Sakura
10) Neji / Asuma / Yamato / Shikamaru


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

1- Obito
2- BSM Naruto
3- Edo Madara/ BM Minato
4- the other one of them
5- Prime Hiruzen according to his hype
6- SM Hashirama
7- Sasuke
8- Kabuto
9- Jman
10- Sakumo (hype)
11- Tobirama
12- itachi/ kakashi/ Guy/ Oro/ Tsunade, Sakura. 

Oro & Kabuto without edo of course.


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## ueharakk (Oct 15, 2013)

0) Obito
1) Hashirama
2) Madara
3/4) Kabuto/Orochimaru
5/6) Naruto/Minato
7) Sasuke
8) Tobirama
9) Hiruzen (prime)
10) Jiraiya
11) Itachi
12) Danzou
13) Kakashi
14) Gai
15) Tsuande
16) Sakura
17) Chouji
18+) White Fang/Izuna  (cuz they are featless)


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2013)

Hiruzen above Jiraiya?  Kabuto & Orochimaru > Naruto & Minato?


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

ueharakk said:


> 0) Obito
> 1) Hashirama
> 2) Madara
> 3/4) Kabuto/Orochimaru)



just out of Curiosity

if you mean Kabuto and Oro with Edo shouldn't Kabuto be the 2nd and Oto the 3rd? 

because Madara belong to Kabuto. (Madara can't escape without itachi consoling the edo)
and Hashi belong to Oro. (he can control him with his Kunai at least.)

and even if we don't count them for some odd reasons, you think oro with 3 edo is on the same
level with Kabuto with around 36 edo? Not to mention if he controlled Minato and Tobirama they
can't use their FTG, which will make them a lot weaker. 

Also, there is no way for Hashi and Madara to defeat around 36 edos. Even if you believe so
neither of them has shown any sealing jutsu to deal with them. 

However, if you think they are up their with their own power, that's interesting.


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Hiruzen above Jiraiya?  Kabuto & Orochimaru > Naruto & Minato?



Old Hiruzen is at the same level as the Sannin. (Although a pit weaker according to the manga)
and according to the manga in his prime he's stronger than Tobirama, base Minato and Hashirama, so it's not strange to be stronger than Jman. *


* Note:- I know Hashi's wankers disagree with the manga, but I just stated what the manga said
and not his wankers. So, I hope no one open a door about this now.


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> and according to the manga in his prime he's stronger than Tobirama, base Minato and Hashirama, so it's not strange to be stronger than Jman.




You mean according to Iruka, who didn't know shit about any of the other Hokage?


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## Ersa (Oct 15, 2013)

lolPartIstatements 

1. Edo Madara, Hashirama, BSM Naruto
2. BM Minato
3. Tobirama / Itachi
4. Jiraiya, Kakashi, Gai


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> You mean according to Iruka, who didn't know shit about any of the other Hokage?



Iruke did not say "In my opinion Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage"

I would have agreed with you if that was the case, but no, it is not the case

he said PEOPLE say Hiruzen is the strongest + Hiruzen himself did NOT disagreed with that
when he heard him, he did not say

"Iruke, you are such a horrible* HISTORY TEACHER*, how can you teach HISTORY when you know nothing about it? Shame on you, how dare you make me stronger than Hashirama- Sama? you are DISQUALIFIED FROM YOUR JOB! GET THE F*CK OUT OF HERE NOW AND DON'T PUT YOUR
BULLSHIT INTO THE NEXT GENERATION'S HEADS EVER AGAIN! "

Nothing like that happened. But anyway, I don't want to go in a debate, I just stated what was in the manga
and it up to you to take it or not, it's your own belief after all.


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## dporter0127 (Oct 15, 2013)

The 3rd took on the first and second as edo and won. The 3rd is very underrated in the show since he was never shown in his prime. and I think  Oro is the only one of the Sanin to ever come close to his level.  Jiriya was good but oro beat him and tsunade without arms


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## Sadgoob (Oct 15, 2013)

Who's Hiruzen?

Anyway, Itachi is the greatest ninja out of Konoha.

Hashirama said so..


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

dporter0127 said:


> The 3rd took on the first and second as edo and won. The 3rd is very underrated in the show since he was never shown in his prime. and I think  Oro is the only one of the Sanin to ever come close to his level. * Jiriya was good but oro beat him and tsunade without arms*



Actually they are the ones who defeated him. 
and Hiruzen was looking for Jman to defeat Oro because he believes that he (Hiruzen) is weaker
than Oro at that time.


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## Ersa (Oct 15, 2013)

Do people even understand the word retcon? 

Hashirama kills Hiruzen with a fart.


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

Strategoob said:


> Who's Hiruzen?



itachi's lord
FEAT


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## dporter0127 (Oct 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> Actually they are the one who defeated him.
> and Hiruzen was looking for Jman to defeat Oro because he believes that he (Hiruzen) is weaker
> than Oro at that time.



The 3rd beat them with the reaper death seal. And the only reason he didn't beat oro was because he was old and out of chakra. So he took on and beat two former edo hokage and then took away oros arms and he was over the age of 60


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

dporter0127 said:


> The 3rd beat them with the reaper death seal. And the only reason he didn't beat oro was because he was old and out of chakra. So he took on and beat two former edo hokage and then took away oros arms and he was over the age of 60



i was talking about the sannin.


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

Kyokan said:


> Do people even understand the word retcon?
> 
> Hashirama kills Hiruzen with a fart.



interestingly Kishi has never called Hashirama the strongest Hokage up until now.


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## ueharakk (Oct 15, 2013)

Elia said:


> just out of Curiosity
> 
> if you mean Kabuto and Oro with Edo shouldn't Kabuto be the 2nd and Oto the 3rd?
> 
> ...


Hashi broke oro's edo tenseis, I'd assume Madara could break kabuto's as well (especially since kabuto didn't know his edo zombies could break the tech).



Elia said:


> and even if we don't count them for some odd reasons, you think oro with 3 edo is on the same
> level with Kabuto with around 36 edo? Not to mention if he controlled Minato and Tobirama they
> can't use their FTG, which will make them a lot weaker.


Why can't they use their FTG if they are being controlled by Oro?  Plus, oro is going to be fighting alongside those guys and Hashirama, Minato, Tobirama and Hiruzen were described as the most powerful zombies.



Elia said:


> Also, there is no way for Hashi and Madara to defeat around 36 edos. Even if you believe so
> neither of them has shown any sealing jutsu to deal with them.


This is a general power levels ranking thread, not a 1 vs 1 matchup as that's almost impossible to do for 15+ different characters.

Not only that, but madara does have human path and the black chakra rods which can impale and allow him to control other edos.

And yes hashi and madara can defeat around 36 edos.



Elia said:


> However, if you think they are up their with their own power, that's interesting.


my tier list should shed some light on my thoughts.


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2013)

> =ueharakk;48714317]Hashi broke oro's edo tenseis, I'd assume Madara could break kabuto's as well (especially since kabuto didn't know his edo zombies could break the tech).


I thought Oro said Hashi can break it IF he let his guard down. 
but never mind. 



> Why can't they use their FTG if they are being controlled by Oro?  Plus, oro is going to be fighting alongside those guys and Hashirama, Minato, Tobirama and Hiruzen were described as the most powerful zombies.


Did not Tobirama say that here? 
my man Itachi already explained everything.





> This is a general power levels ranking thread, not a 1 vs 1 matchup as that's almost impossible to do for 15+ different characters.
> *
> Not only that, but madara does have human path and the black chakra rods which can impale and allow him to control other edos*.


O.K, and what does Hashirama have? 


> And yes hashi and madara can defeat around 36 edos.



O.K if you believe so. 


> my tier list should shed some light on my thoughts.


I will take a look.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 15, 2013)

1 - Obito (Juubito form)
2 - Hashirama
3 - Madara
4 - Naruto(current)
5 - Sasuke(Current)
6 - Minato(current)
7 - Itachi (healthy)
8 - Orochimaru
9 - Jiraiya
10 - Tobirama


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## Jagger (Oct 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Hashirama/Naruto
> Madara/Kyuubi Minato/PS? Sasuke
> Tobirama/Minato
> Kakashi/Itachi/Gai
> ...


Aren't you the one that debated once that Madara should be dominating Hashiram already and yet, you're ranking him higher than his rival?

Or are you talking about EMS Madara?


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## Bonly (Oct 15, 2013)

Itachi
Madara
Sasuke
Obito
Orochi
Kakashi
Gai
Jiraiya
Hashi
Tobi
Hiruzen
Minato
Tsunade
Sakumo 
Naruto
Sakura


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## RBL (Oct 15, 2013)

Bonly said:


> Itachi
> Madara
> Sasuke
> Obito
> ...



oh no, sakura is not above neji or rock lee

NO EDOS
1 - Hashirama
2 - Madara
3 - Naruto
4 - Itachi/Minato/Obito
5 - Gai/Kakashi
6 - Sasuke
7 - Kabuto/Orochimaru
8 - Tobirama
9 - Jiraiya
10 - Hiruzen
11 - Danzo
12 - Tsunade
13 - Rock Lee/Neji
14 - Choji/Sakura


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 15, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> oh no, sakura is not above neji or rock lee
> 
> NO EDOS
> 1 - Hashirama
> ...



Looking at his list, it's obvious he didn't rank them in specific order. As for your list, there's no way Gai and Kakashi are above current Sasuke and Tobirama.


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## RBL (Oct 15, 2013)

The Saiyan Prince Vegeta said:


> Looking at his list, it's obvious he didn't rank them in specific order. As for your list, there's no way Gai and Kakashi are above current Sasuke and Tobirama.



but right now tobirama is kind of featless, he needs to show us what he is capable of, he is practically just strong by hype.

as for sasuke, he is also kind of featless with his new EMS.

probably they are stronger than the masters, but i just want to wait for more feats, and then i might edit my list


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 15, 2013)

Obito(Current)

BMSMNaruto/BM Minato/Hashirama


Minato/BM Naruto/Madara


Kabuto Edo Tensei/Rinnegan Obito


EMS Sasuke/SM Kabuto


Hiruzen/Tobirama/Danzo


SM Naruto/MS Sasuke


Itachi/Jiriyia/Orochimaru


Sakura


Tsunade


Kakashi


Gai


Shikamaru


Chouji/Ino


Asuma/Neji/Yammato


Ino/Cho/Shika(Parents)


Konomaharu (Hype)


Hinata/Rock Lee/Shino/Kiba


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## Bansai (Oct 15, 2013)

1) Jubito
2) Hashirama
3) Madara
4) Tobirama
5) Naruto
6) Sasuke 
7) Minato
8) Itachi
9) Orochimaru
10) Hiruzen


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## Rocky (Oct 15, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Aren't you the one that debated once that Madara should be dominating Hashiram already and yet, you're ranking him higher than his rival?
> 
> Or are you talking about EMS Madara?




Talking about EMS Madara.


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## Bonly (Oct 15, 2013)

Brandon Lee said:


> oh no, sakura is not above neji or rock lee



Yes, yes she is imo. Neji and Rock Lee are Jounin level, Sakura is low Kage level.


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## Zenith (Oct 15, 2013)

1.Obito
2.Mansali
3.Madara
4.Hashirama/Hiruzen
5.Teuchi
6.Itachi
7.Tiger Mizuki
8.Tobirama 
9.Naruto
10.Itachi's disciple NIkushimi


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## Samehadaman (Oct 15, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> *Sakura*
> 
> Tsunade
> 
> ...



There's a special place in hell for people that put Sakura above the Masters.


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## Jagger (Oct 15, 2013)

Sakura > Kakashi? Lolwut.


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## Veracity (Oct 15, 2013)

Obito
Hashirama 
Madara 
Naruto
Minato
Sasuke
Oro(Edo)
Kabuto(Edo)
Tobirama 
Itachi
Hiruzen(hype)
Kakashi(Kamui)
Gai(Gates)
Sannin
Sakura 
Choji.


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 15, 2013)

Jagger said:


> Sakura > Kakashi? Lolwut.



Sakura surpassed Tsunade, Tsunade> Kakashi, I'm not talking battledome one on one but overall as a shinobi she's above Kakashi due to her support abilities.


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## Veracity (Oct 15, 2013)

Eliyua23 said:


> Sakura surpassed Tsunade, Tsunade> Kakashi, I'm not talking battledome one on one but overall as a shinobi she's above Kakashi due to her support abilities.



Sakura isn't >Tsunade.


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## Tarot (Oct 15, 2013)

No Edo Tensei:

1. Obito
2. Hashirama
3. Madara
4. Naruto
5. Sasuke 
6. Minato
7. Itachi
8. Tobirama
9. Jiraiya
10.Orochimaru
11.Tsunade
12.Hiruzen
13. Danzo
14.Kakashi
15. Guy


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## tanman (Oct 15, 2013)

BM Minato? What even is that?


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## Bonly (Oct 15, 2013)

tanman said:


> BM Minato? What even is that?


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## Kai (Oct 15, 2013)

Obito
Hashirama
Madara
Naruto
Minato
Sasuke
Tobirama
Itachi
Orochimaru
Kakashi
Jiraiya
Danzo
Tsunade
Gai


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## Doctor Lamperouge (Oct 15, 2013)

Tsunade. Maybe Kushina but she doesn't have very many combat feats besides holding the Kyuubi down. By hype though I think she's up there.

Tsunade's really a old hag though, so not sure if I'd date her.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 15, 2013)

It should go like:

1. Obito
2. Edo Madara
3. Hashirama/Naruto
4. Living Madara(Kyūbi included)
5. Edo Minato
6. Sasuke
7. Edo Itachi
8. Living Minato
9. Tobirama
10. Living Itachi
11. Kakashi
12. Orochimaru
13. Jiraiya
14. Danzō
15. Gai
16. Tsunade


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## Ƶero (Oct 15, 2013)

Minato
The rest


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## Nikushimi (Oct 15, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> 1.Obito
> 2.Mansali
> 3.Madara
> 4.Hashirama/Hiruzen
> ...





Well, even if it's not Kumogakure, I guess Konoha is the next-best village to be from.

I'm totally stronger than Naruto when I enter Wank Sage Mode, btw.


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## trance (Oct 17, 2013)

Hashirama, Minato and Naruto are probably the strongest.


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## ImSerious (Oct 17, 2013)

my sig.
check it.


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## ? (Oct 17, 2013)

1. Obito

2. Hashirama

3. Madara

4. Naruto/Sasuke

5. Minato (Edo)

6. Minato/Itachi

7. Tobirama

8. Kakashi

9. Orochimaru/Jiraiya

10. Tsunade

11. Hiruzen (old)

12. The rest


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 17, 2013)

Madara Uchiha (Rinnegan)
Hashirama Senju
Naruto Uzumaki
Sasuke Uchiha
Minato Namikaze (base)
Itachi Uchiha
Obito Uchiha (base)
Tsunade/Jiraiya/Orochimaru
Kakashi Hatake
Hiruzen Sarutobi (young)
Tobirama Senju
Sakura Haruno 
Maito Gai

I ignored Minato's bijuu cloak since he only had it very temporarily. Likewise I believe Obito is only temporarily fused with the Juubi, I felt it was more sensible to use his base form. 

Sakura is prone to going higher, but she'll need more combat feats first. Hiruzen has shown nothing to suggest he's anything close to being Hashirama's level when he was in his prime, so thats why he is where he is. I think Tobirama is a little underwhelming offensively when compared to other shinobi on the list, though I know many people will disagree with this placement. The Sannin are above Kakashi because Orochimaru has the potential to summon Hashirama into battle, Tsunade has the potential to summon an absolutely colossal Katsuyu, and Jiraiya has Sage Mode and some fuck you ninjutsu.

Come at me bros.​​


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## HashiramaUchiha (Oct 17, 2013)

1. Juubi Obito
2. Hashirama / Edo Madara
3. Naruto
4. BM Minato
5. Sasuke / Tobirama
6. SM Jiraiya / Living Itachi
7. Orochimaru
8. Kakashi
9. Gai / Tsunade
10. Hiruzen


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## Dominus (Oct 17, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Hiruzen has shown nothing to suggest he's anything close to being Hashirama's level when he was in his prime, so thats why he is where he is.​​



But he has shown something to suggest that he's above Tobirama?



> I think Tobirama is a little underwhelming offensively when compared to other shinobi on the list, though I know many people will disagree with this placement.​​



Gojō Kibaku Fuda is bigger than any bijū excluding the Jūbi and it can be much bigger depending on how many people he can reincarnate with Edo Tensei.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 17, 2013)

Dark Prince of Awesome said:


> But he has shown something to suggest that he's above Tobirama?



Hiruzen and Tobirama's positions are probably interchangeable, I gave Hiruzen the benefit of the doubt because of his hype, and because I imagine his Kage Bunshin tactics could stand up to Tobirama's attempts at trying to blitz him. 




> Gojō Kibaku Fuda is bigger than any bijū excluding the Jūbi and it can be much bigger depending on how many people he can reincarnate with Edo Tensei.



Yeah, but when used directly the technique requires the target to be immobilised first. Its quite easy to avoid or destroy the tags before they make contact. Additionally Tobirama has to be far out of the technique's range before he uses it, meaning it takes prep time. Edo Tensei requires preparation too, preparation that Tobirama doesn't always have, and even when he does have it there's no guarantee that his weak reincarnations could immobilise and target their foes with the Gojo Kibaku Fuda before detonating the tags.​​


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## Rocky (Oct 17, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Sakura Haruno
> Maito Gai




No.



> The Sannin are above Kakashi because Orochimaru has the potential to summon Hashirama into battle, Tsunade has the potential to summon an absolutely colossal Katsuyu, and Jiraiya has Sage Mode and some fuck you ninjutsu.




Kakashi has the ability to "Kamui GG" any of the Sannin before they do any of that. Come at _ME_.


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## FlamingRain (Oct 17, 2013)

I think it'd go:

*1.)* Obito Uchiha
*2.)* Naruto Uzumaki ~ Hashirama Senju
*3.)* Madara Uchiha
*4.)* Sasuke Uchiha
*5.)* Tobirama Senju
*6.)* Itachi Uchiha ~ Minato Namikaze
*7.)* Jiraiya ~ Orochimaru ~ Tsunade
*8.)* Danzō Shimura
*9.)* Kakashi Hatake ~ Maito Gai
*10.)* Elderly Hiruzen Sarutobi


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## Dominus (Oct 17, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Hiruzen and Tobirama's positions are probably interchangeable, I gave Hiruzen the benefit of the doubt because of his hype, and because I imagine his Kage Bunshin tactics could stand up to Tobirama's attempts at trying to blitz him.​​



By feats, Tobirama is much stronger than him, he can avoid all of his attacks with Hiraishin, Hiruzen doesn't stand a chance. He can mark his clones or ninja(s) he reincarnates, move them close to Hiruzen, teleport there and defeat him with Hiraishingiri or Suiton: Suidanha or simply use Gojō Kibaku Fuda.



Godaime Tsunade said:


> Yeah, but when used directly the technique requires the target to be immobilised first. Its quite easy to avoid or destroy the tags before they make contact. Additionally Tobirama has to be far out of the technique's range before he uses it, meaning it takes prep time. Edo Tensei requires preparation too, preparation that Tobirama doesn't always have, and even when he does have it there's no guarantee that his weak reincarnations could immobilise and target their foes with the Gojo Kibaku Fuda before detonating the tags.​​



He needed to restrain Obito because he's the fastest shinobi (that doesn't have Hiraishin). If he can reincarnate at least 2 ninjas it will be much harder for his enemy to avoid their attack when both of them are using Gojō Kibaku Fuda at the same time. It's not easy to avoid it because the explosion is huge, he can distract his opponent with clones or water techniques while the shinobi he reincarnates uses the technique. Tobirama can avoid the explosion with Hiraishin. Why wouldn't he be able to prepare Edo Tensei before a battle as Minato prepares kunai for Hiraishin.


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## Godaime Tsunade (Oct 17, 2013)

Rocky said:


> No.



Mega Katsuyu drops by for a visit. Gai is done. Though I guess if he went 8 gates he could make it a tie, but that isn't a very efficient way of dealing with foes who he can't defeat otherwise.



> Kakashi has the ability to "Kamui GG" any of the Sannin before they do any of that. Come at _ME_.



_I will_.  

Kakashi may have the GG Kamui but I don't see that as a good enough reason to view him as overall stronger. I mean in theory Kakashi could Kamui Hashirama before he has a chance to move or think of using a mokuton clone, but would that ever actually happen? In the face of shinobi who can reincarnate ex-Hokage to do their bidding or summon juubi sized slugs I feel like Kakashi is a just bit outclassed. I guess it comes down to where we see power levels to be at, but I think at the moment he is below the Sannin.



Dark Prince of Awesome said:


> By feats, Tobirama is much stronger than him, he can avoid all of his attacks with Hiraishin, Hiruzen doesn't stand a chance. He can mark his clones or ninja(s) he reincarnates, move them close to Hiruzen, teleport there and defeat him with Hiraishingiri or Suiton: Suidanha or simply use Gojō Kibaku Fuda.



By feats Tobirama _stomps_ on Hiruzen, but the only feats Hiruzen has displayed are in his old age. Hiruzen had a bigger chakra pool in his youth, and was known to use shadow clones a lot in combat. His Enma staff can divide into a shield strong and quick enough to block Hashirama's mokuton, so I imagine blocking suiton would be a simple task. Furthermore we should take account of the fact that his reaction and movement speed would arguably be higher in his youth, so escaping blitz tactics with clones should be possible. Whether or not Hiruzen was actually the strongest Hokage is unknown, but he was revered as a god of shinobi and the strongest of the five kage of his time. He was legendary in his own right, not to mention trained by the Nidaime, so he should in theory be able to hold his ground against him.





> He needed to restrain Obito because he's the fastest shinobi (that doesn't have Hiraishin).



And also because his technique isn't notably fast. An average joe speedster could dodge or destroy it, never mind God-level Juubito



> If he can reincarnate at least 2 ninjas it will be much harder for his enemy to avoid their attack when both of them are using Gojō Kibaku Fuda at the same time.



Not really, the tags move no faster than kunai do. 



> It's not easy to avoid it because the explosion is huge, he can distract his opponent with clones or water techniques while the shinobi he reincarnates uses the technique.



Avoiding the explosion isn't feasible, but you can ensure the explosion never ensues by destroying or evading the tags before they latch onto you.



> And Tobirama can avoid the explosion with Hiraishin. Why wouldn't he be able to prepare Edo Tensei before a battle as Minato prepares kunai for Hiraishin.



Thats more difficult than you think. He would need to first anticipate the size of the explosion, and then escape to very far range where he would have to plant hiraishin on an obstacle. He may have shadow clones to aid him, but whenever the foe can use clones too, or when they follow him and close the distance gap, it is still a very difficult task to achieve against any high level opponent​​


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## Garcher (Oct 17, 2013)

1.Itachi
2.Rest


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## RBL (Oct 17, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> 1.Itachi
> 2.Rest



1.- gai/lee/neji/tenten
2.-itachi
3.- others
4.- minato


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## Ninja Art (Oct 17, 2013)

Itachi the Best said:


> 1.Itachi
> 2.Rest



Phrase the Solo King


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## kaminogan (Oct 17, 2013)

so those produced by konoha?

i have to say hashirama, 

but i think that the next powerup naruto gets will make him stronger than him,


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## Rocky (Oct 17, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> Mega Katsuyu drops by for a visit. Gai is done. Though I guess if he went 8 gates he could make it a tie, but that isn't a very efficient way of dealing with foes who he can't defeat otherwise.




When did Sakura gain the speed feats to fight effectively against upper gated Gai. She's like Gaara to Gai's Lee when it comes to quickness. Byakugo doesn't start active, Katusyu doesn't start summoned, and she can't even bring out the large one without a second Byakugo user. Gai can activate _Asa Kujaku_ or _Hirodura _on a _whim_. She stands no chance. 





> Kakashi may have the GG Kamui but I don't see that as a good enough reason to view him as overall stronger. I mean in theory Kakashi could Kamui Hashirama before he has a chance to move or think of using a mokuton clone, but would that ever actually happen? In the face of shinobi who can reincarnate ex-Hokage to do their bidding or summon juubi sized slugs I feel like Kakashi is a just bit outclassed. I guess it comes down to where we see power levels to be at, but I think at the moment he is below the Sannin.




Hashirama can clap his hands and block Kakashi's line of sight with an entire forest, and Madara and Sasuke can do it with Susano'o. Minato and Naruto can dodge, and Obito is a Kamui user himself. Kakashi cannot solo top-tiers with Kamui.

The Sannin aren't as quick to the draw as those mentioned above, and they don't have fast LOS blocking techniques. Imo, summoning takes too long to be an effective defense against the Mangekyou (if Kakashi is serious about using it, of course).


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## Dominus (Oct 17, 2013)

Godaime Tsunade said:


> By feats Tobirama _stomps_ on Hiruzen, but the only feats Hiruzen has displayed are in his old age. Hiruzen had a bigger chakra pool in his youth, and was known to use shadow clones a lot in combat. His Enma staff can divide into a shield strong and quick enough to block Hashirama's mokuton, so I imagine blocking suiton would be a simple task. Furthermore we should take account of the fact that his reaction and movement speed would arguably be higher in his youth, so escaping blitz tactics with clones should be possible. Whether or not Hiruzen was actually the strongest Hokage is unknown, but he was revered as a god of shinobi and the strongest of the five kage of his time. He was legendary in his own right, not to mention trained by the Nidaime, so he should in theory be able to hold his ground against him.​​



It's hard to determine Hiruzen's strength when we don't have an idea about his power when he was younger. We don't know how much better were his stamina, reflexes and speed back then. That's why I wondered why you put him above Tobirama when "Prime" Hiruzen is featless, if you use the hype of him being the strongest Hokage, then you should put him above all of them not just Tobirama. 



> And also because his technique isn't notably fast. An average joe speedster could dodge or destroy it, never mind God-level Juubito
> 
> Not really, the tags move no faster than kunai do.
> 
> Avoiding the explosion isn't feasible, but you can ensure the explosion never ensues by destroying or evading the tags before they latch onto you.​​



But they won't get the chance to destroy the tags if they are fighting Tobirama's clones and being distracted by water techniques. He can use the technique when the enemy isn't looking and it _will_ be harder if he reincarnates two or more shinobi, then his enemy would have to destroy more tags while being distracted. The reincarnated shinobi don't even have to throw the tags, they can just attach them to themselves.



> Thats more difficult than you think. He would need to first anticipate the size of the explosion, and then escape to very far range where he would have to plant hiraishin on an obstacle. He may have shadow clones to aid him, but whenever the foe can use clones too, or when they follow him and close the distance gap, it is still a very difficult task to achieve against any high level opponent​​



Well it is his jutsu, he should know the approximate size of the explosion, he can send a clone to go as far away as possible and teleport to the clone or mark the ground and somehow force the enemy to move from that location and when they are far enough from the mark, he can then use the jutsu. Tobirama is extremely intelligent, I'm sure can find a way to use it effectively, besides he had already used that technique, he surely has some tactics.


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## Kai (Oct 17, 2013)

Hiruzen is the one character that has me completely stumped; I'd much rather exclude him from tiering/ranking.

Kishi retconned him, alright. But where does he belong now? And even if he was retconned his hype in Part 2 still exists as one of the four Edo Hokage, yet he doesn't receive any highlights.

It's just a total mystery.


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## Santoryu (Oct 17, 2013)

Oh my god, is GT seriously STILL suggesting that the likes of Tsunade  or any of the Sannin are above Kakashi? 

You know what, forget about the Mangekyo-Sharingan for a second completely, Kakashi *doesn't need* to utilise the power of the gods for such opponents' like Tsunade. We're talking about a character who's Sharingan-genjutsu was potent enough to match Obito's, he's physically superior to a version two Jinjuriki, he danced around a Sharingan-Rinnegan equipped Obito, his tactics are second to none.


There is a reason Kishimoto made Kakashi defeat Obito in a one vs one battle, while Tsunade was humiliated against Madara despite being aided by four Kages. Heck, even if we ignore the battle with Obito, Kakashi's feats prior to that are good enough to take out any of the Sannin.


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## Santoryu (Oct 17, 2013)

As for my list:

Obito 
Hashirama
Madara
Naruto (may be higher)
Minato
Sasuke (????)
Kakashi


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## Kyu (Oct 17, 2013)

Not including Edo incarnations:

*1.* Obito
*2.* Hashirama
*3.* Naruto/Madara
*4.* Sasuke
*5.* Minato/Itachi
*6. * Tobirama (interchangeable with 7)
*7.* Kakashi (interchangeable with 6)
*8.* Gai
*9.* Oro/Jman
*10.* Tsunade


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## Complete_Ownage (Oct 17, 2013)

FV Orochimaru 
Obito(Juubito)
Hashirama/Madara
Naruto/Sasuke
Kabuto - SM/Edo Tensei
Minato/Tobirama
Itachi
Jiraiya/Orochimaru/Tsunade
Kakashi - hell I guess kakashi could be ahead of the sannin by now :shrug
Danzo


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## Santoryu (Oct 17, 2013)

I forgot Kabuto was from the leaf village


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## Complete_Ownage (Oct 17, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> I forgot Kabuto was from the leaf village



Well he was adopted into konoha as a young child/infant

Guess that counts lol


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## johnsuwey (Oct 17, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> 1 - Obito (Juubito form)
> 2 - Hashirama
> 3 - Madara
> 4 - Naruto(current)
> ...




Lol, massive itachi wank


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## Jad (Oct 17, 2013)

Rocky said:


> No.



Told you Gai is underrated as fuck


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## johnsuwey (Oct 17, 2013)

Jad said:


> Told you Gai is underrated as fuck



No you overrate him by 10 miles.
Gai is in fact highly overrated.


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## SoLoLord Mizuki (Oct 17, 2013)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> 1.Obito
> 2.Mansali
> 3.Madara
> 4.Hashirama/Hiruzen
> ...


Mizuki should be higher on that list, like #1


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## Van Konzen (Oct 17, 2013)

Hiashi..


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## IchLiebe (Oct 18, 2013)

My List:

1. Hashirama- Due to immense abilities.
2. Tobirama- Due to intelligence and jutsu capabilities. ET is a big factor here.
3. Madara
4. Naruto
5. Minato
6. Obito, Kakashi, Gai
7. Sasuke, Itachi


Obito is pre jyuubi or else he would be number 2.


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## Seon (Oct 19, 2013)

1. Naruto/Sasuke
2. Hashirama/madara
3. Obito 
4. Minato/Itachi/Tobirama
5. The sannin/Kakashi /gai


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## Jagger (Oct 19, 2013)

IchLiebe said:


> My List:
> 
> *1. Hashirama- Due to immense abilities.
> 2. Tobirama- Due to intelligence and jutsu capabilities. ET is a big factor here.*
> ...


Huh???????

Madara > Tobirama and most likely he is currently stronger than Hashirama at this point as well.


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 19, 2013)

Lord Kurama clearly ever since Uzumaki Naruto made him officially a member of the village.


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## Rain (Oct 19, 2013)

1. Itachi
2. Hashirama/Madara/Tobi (Juubi Jin)
4. Naruto/White Fang/Minato/Shisui
5. Sasuke/Tobirama/Prime Sarutobi
6. Orochimaru/Kabuto/Izuna
7. Jiraiya/Kakashi/Gai/


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## Luftwaffles (Oct 19, 2013)

1. Obito
2. Hashirama
3. Madara
4. Naruto
5. 100% Orochimaru
6. Sasuke, Tobirama and Minato
7. Itachi, Kakashi and Gai
8. Jiraiya
9. Hiruzen and Danzo
10. Sakumo(based on hype)
11. Tsunade
12. Shisui
13. Choji, Sakura and Yamato

That being said, I don't consider Kabuto being_ from_ Konoha, he wasn't born there.
________________________________


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## GKY (Oct 19, 2013)

I'll take a stab. I'm not counting edo incarnations. 

1. Current Obito
2. Kabuto w edo army. 
3. Hashirama 
4. Madara (although Edo Madara>Hashirama) 
5. BSM Naruto
6.Current Sasuke 
7. Oro with edo kages (he'd be higher if he could control them better). 
8/9/10. Tobirama/Minato/Hiruzen (prime) 
11/12/13/14. Itachi/Jiraiya/Shisui/White Fang
15/16/17. Kakashi/Gai/Tsunade


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## Jagger (Oct 19, 2013)

Rain said:


> 1. Itachi
> 2. Hashirama/Madara/Tobi (Juubi Jin)
> 4. Naruto/White Fang/Minato/
> 5. Sasuke/Tobirama
> ...


Sakumo is pretty one of the most featless person in this series. At least we saw Hanzo fighting for a while, but Sakumo's only feat is the use of his blade that earned him such nickname.

He is just a character void of feats and full of hype.


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## Rain (Oct 19, 2013)

Prime Sakumo was more famous than the 3 Legendary (<--keyword) Sannin combined.


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## Panther (Oct 19, 2013)

Based on feats only.
1. Juubito
2. BSM Naruto
3. SM Hashirama ~ BM Naruto ~ Edo Madara
4. EMS Madara w/o Kyuubi >/= Base Hashirama
5. BM Minato >/= EMS Sasuke
6. Tobirama


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## Jagger (Oct 19, 2013)

Rain said:


> Prime Sakumo was more famous than the 3 Legendary (<--keyword) Sannin combined.


That's just pure hype. It's like placing Hiruzen at the top of the list because he was said to be the strongest Hokage in his prime.


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## Santoryu (Oct 19, 2013)

Waffle said:


> 1. Obito
> 2. Hashirama
> 3. Madara
> 4. Naruto
> ...



One of the better lists
Kakashi>Tobirama IMO. I remember when people were having a hissy-fit when I stated this, but after seeing more of his abilities, I can safely say Kakashi has been more impressive. If we take portrayal/hype into account, there's no reason Tsunade should be above Sakura. Oh and, Orochimaru is canonically weaker than Itachi....


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## Elite Uchiha (Oct 19, 2013)

1. EOS Naruto/ Sasuke
2. Juubito
3. BM Minato/ SM Hirashima/ Edo Madara
4. Tobirama




10. Kakashi/Itachi/Gai/Jiraiya


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## Luftwaffles (Oct 19, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> One of the better lists
> Kakashi>Tobirama IMO. I remember when people were having a hissy-fit when I stated this, but after seeing more of his abilities, I can safely say Kakashi has been more impressive. If we take portrayal/hype into account, there's no reason Tsunade should be above Sakura. Oh and, Orochimaru is canonically weaker than Itachi....


I try to add hype, feats and portrayal equally; so by hype, feats and portrayal I made this list 

When I say 100% CURRENT Oro; I mean current Oro with Hashi DNA body, possible Sennin Mode, possible Mokuton, full knowledge on everyone due to Kabuto absorption, Yamata no Orochi and 4(possibly 3 because Hashi can break out of it) of the most powerful Edos to exist


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## Tahj Sarutobi (Oct 22, 2013)

1) Obito
2) BSM Naruto
3)Hashirama
4)Madara
5)Minato
6)Sasuke
7)SM Jiraiya
8)Itachi
9)Tobirama
10)MS Kakashi
11)Sakumo
12)Kabuto
13)Orochimaru
14)MS Shisui
15)Tsunade
16) Maito Gai
17)Danzo
18)Izuna

These lists are hampered by the fact that being higher on the list does not mean that you can beat everybody lower than you.

Technically Danzo, Shisui, Kakashi, Itachi all have one shotters.
BSM Naruto would lose in a fight to SM Hashirama but that is about matchup, and Naruto's powers are far more awe inspiring than a giant wooden statue, as he can heal and power up thousands, making fodders be able to tank Juubi-level attacks.


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## Miyamoto Musashi (Oct 22, 2013)

Are people seriously putting Tobirama above EMS Madara?


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## johnsuwey (Oct 22, 2013)

dporter0127 said:


> The 3rd beat them with the reaper death seal. And the only reason he didn't beat oro was because he was old and out of chakra. So he took on and beat two former edo hokage and then took away oros arms and he was over the age of 60



Not much of a feat given the reaper death seal is an Iwin button really.
So is edo tensei I guess.

It just wasn't a good fight imo.


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## wooly Eullerex (Oct 22, 2013)

Naruko/Sasuke/Madara/Hashirama**

Sarutobi/Jiraiya/Oro/Kabuto/Tsunade/Tobirama/Minato/Itachi
**

Shimura/Choji/Gai/Kakashi/Asuma/Hiashi/Sai/ _Kiba_


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## Psp123789 (Oct 22, 2013)

1. Itachi 
2. Itachi's crow clone


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## Mercurial (Oct 23, 2013)

as today

1)  Obito
2) Hashirama / Madara
3) Naruto / Sasuke
4) Minato / Tobirama / Kakashi
5) Itachi / Gai
6) Sakumo / Izuna
7) Shisui / Orochimaru / Jiraiya
8) Hiruzen
9) Hiashi / Tsunade
10) Rock Lee / Neji / Asuma / Yamato / Shikamaru / Sakura

EoS probably

1) Naruto / Sasuke / Obito
2) Hashirama / Madara
3) Kakashi
4) Minato / Tobirama
5) Itachi / Gai 
6) Sakumo / Izuna
7) Shisui / Orochimaru / Jiraiya
8) Hiruzen
9) Rock Lee
10) Hiashi / Tsunade / Sakura / Shikamaru


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## Master Sephiroth (Oct 23, 2013)

If using Edo Tensei with cooperation, Kabuto is 1 and Orochimaru is 2. But I'll leave Edo Tensei out for the time being.

1: Obito
2: Madara
3: Hashirama
4: Naruto
5/6: Sasuke/Minato
7: Itachi (Tobirama would be here with Edo Tensei)
8: Tobirama
9/10: Kakashi/Jiraiya


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## Ghost (Oct 23, 2013)

1. Obito
2. Naruto
3. Hashirama
4. Madara
5. Sasuke
6. Itachi/Minato/Orochimaru
7. Tobirama
8. Kakashi/Guy/Jiraiya
9. Tsunade
10. Hiruzen


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Oct 23, 2013)

1. Obito
2. Hashirama
3. Madara
4. Naruto
5. Sasuke
6. Minato
7. Itachi
8. Tobirama
9. Orochimaru
10. Kakashi


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 23, 2013)

Raikiri19 said:


> as today
> 
> 1)  Obito
> 2) Hashirama / Madara
> ...




Kakashi stronger than Itachi ? Kakashi on the same tier with Minato ? Itachi on the same tier with Gai ? 

 
I mean ok, this is funny but please stahp.


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## Lawrence777 (Oct 23, 2013)

Hashirama / Madara
Naruto / Sasuke
Minato / Itachi
Tobirama
Jiraiya / Orochimaru / Tsunade 
Kakashi / Might Guy

Tobirama's placement is based on portrayal. He should be somewhere ^ the average mangekyou using Uchiha as he talks and acts as if he has fought his fair share e.g."that's the biggest enton i've seen" implying he's seen more and is not the least bit surprised/alarmed. He was pretty confident he could take sasuke although he probably didn't know sasuke had EMS. I bet he could handily take the run of the mill mangekyou user.
I'm reluctant to bet Tobirama'd beat prodigy MS users such as Itachi though whom are geniuses on top of it and have susanoo(as developing the susanoo technique is a "rarity"). The average amaterasu/enton using uchiha should be comfortably above the sannin as they don't have much in the way of countering the technique outside of pre-full knowledge extrapolated circumstances.

Kakashi is low purely raw strength wise. He doesn't have the raw speed or raw power of a lot of the people above him eg. tsunade healing thousands simultaneously / oro solo invading a village by himself. Despite that though I feel Kakashi has the capacity to beat people above his level of raw output using purely his brains and tactics. Factoring that in he can theoretically beat everyone up to and including tobirama and even beyond that if the circumstances favor him.


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## Tengu (Oct 23, 2013)

1. Obito
2. Madara
3. Hashirama
4. Naruto
5. Sasuke
6. Itachi/Tobirama/Minato
7. Kakashi/Jiraiya/Orochimaru
8. Hiruzen/Gai/Tsunade


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## Santoryu (Oct 23, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kakashi stronger than Itachi ?



Yes                                          .


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## jacobsmith (Oct 23, 2013)

How the hell is Itachi making it to the top of these lists?  Come on he was beaten by Hebi sasuke for crying out loud!  He has like 1 jounin level fight left in him before he just falls over dead!


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## Jagger (Oct 23, 2013)

jacobsmith said:


> How the hell is Itachi making it to the top of these lists?  Come on he was beaten by Hebi sasuke for crying out loud!  He has like 1 jounin level fight left in him before he just falls over dead!


I don't know what is worse. Itachi haters or his wankers, lol.

It was a draw at best and it's because Itachi held back like a crazy man when he could have ended the fight quite early. Even MS Sasuke would have problems against Itachi.


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## jacobsmith (Oct 23, 2013)

Jagger said:


> I don't know what is worse. Itachi haters or his wankers, lol.
> 
> It was a draw at best and it's because Itachi held back like a crazy man when he could have ended the fight quite early. Even MS Sasuke would have problems against Itachi.



Okay, at best it was a near draw, I admit.  But even that is merely a high jounin draw, afterwhich you are basically guaranteed to die.  I mean seriously, the hype is ridiculous for this character.  Hell, he will probably would have died on his own in a few more months.


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## Shizune (Oct 23, 2013)

Obito
Madara / Hashirama
Naruto / Minato / Sasuke (assuming he is intended to be Naruto's equal)
Itachi / Tobirama
Tsunade / Jiraiya / Orochimaru / Kakashi 
Danzo / Gai
Sakura / Hiruzen / Ino / Choji / Kurenai / Dan


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 24, 2013)

Santoryu said:


> Yes                                          .



Which incarnations are we talking about ? 

Is this sick and dying Itachi vs Edo Kyuubi shroud Kakashi ?

Otherwise Kakashi doesn't even come close.


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## jacobsmith (Oct 24, 2013)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Which incarnations are we talking about ?
> 
> Is this sick and dying Itachi vs Edo Kyuubi shroud Kakashi ?
> 
> Otherwise Kakashi doesn't even come close.



I could beat sick itachi.  
Fucker is so overhyped its not funny.

Face it the fucker can't beat ANYONE.
Because, anyone who fights ensures he dies too, so the best he could ever hope for is a draw, and he isn't even getting that on anyone remotely near kage level.


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## Jak N Blak (Oct 24, 2013)

How on Earth is Hashi & Madz being ranked about the Father of the Tailed Beasts Uzumaki Naruto.


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## Mangeykou Byakugan (Oct 24, 2013)

Hashirama
Madara
Naruto/Sasuke
Minato
Tobirama
Itachi
Danzo
Jiriaya/Orochimaru
Hiruzen
Tsunade
Kakashi


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## Nic (Oct 24, 2013)

Naruto
Hashirama
Madara
/Sasuke
Minato
Tobirama
Hiruzen
Itachi
Danzo
Jiriaya/Orochimaru
Tsunade
Kakashi


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## jacobsmith (Oct 24, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> How on Earth is Hashi & Madz being ranked about the Father of the Tailed Beasts Uzumaki Naruto.


People here are derp.

For instance,
How the fuck is sick Itachi getting higher than Jiraiya and current Orochimaru on almost every list?


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## Jagger (Oct 24, 2013)

Jak N Blak said:


> How on Earth is Hashi & Madz being ranked about the Father of the Tailed Beasts Uzumaki Naruto.


Because they are?


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