# Orochi vs Killer B



## Bonly (Feb 3, 2015)

Location: This town
Distance: Each starts at opposite ends of the town, no LoS
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions: Bijuu Mode, Yamata, Edo Tensei


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## Hand Banana (Feb 3, 2015)

Disable bijuu mode but not Tailed Beast Mode? K. Good luck Orochimaru.



> Tailed Beast Mode is devastatingly powerful and poses an untold risk of collateral damage. It is for this reason that Killer B is forbidden to use the form under normal circumstances, as it could easily destroy an entire ninja village if left unchecked. The most dangerous ability available to this mode is the Tailed Beast Ball.


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## SSMG (Feb 3, 2015)

Hmm hydra vs v2 bee is what this comes down to IMO. Unfortunately I don't know if there's any way to compare them at all to make an accurate answer.


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## Altair21 (Feb 3, 2015)

Didn't Orochimaru admit that if he took a bijuudama from 4 tailed kyuubi he'd be fucked three ways from sunday? V2 Bee should easily decimate Orochimaru, so no need for bijuu mode really.


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## Bonly (Feb 3, 2015)

NaS said:


> Disable bijuu mode but not Tailed Beast Mode? K. Good luck Orochimaru.





Altair21 said:


> Didn't Orochimaru admit that if he took a bijuudama from 4 tailed kyuubi he'd be fucked three ways from sunday? V2 Bee should easily decimate Orochimaru, so no need for bijuu mode really.



Killer B can't use a Bijuudama in V2, Gyūki pretty much says that it can't be done unless one is in full Bijuu Mode and so far only Naruto(Kurama's Jin and we know how Kurama shits on the other Bijuu in most aspects) has been able to do such. We saw V2 Naruto cut Orochi in half and Orochi put himself back together with a smile in his face and with the damage output V2 B can do, it's not gonna be a rape of any kind.



SSMG said:


> Hmm hydra vs v2 bee is what this comes down to IMO. Unfortunately I don't know if there's any way to compare them at all to make an accurate answer.



If by Hydra you mean his giant multi head snake then that's restricted.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 3, 2015)

Bee should win more times than not. V2 shroud will not get penetrated seeing as a non perfect 4 tail naruto could no-sell it not to mention lesser beast V2 forms were casually taking war arc kakashi rakiris to the body. Oro could take bee out in base but honestly bee won't fight someone like oro without it long enough. Honestly Acrobat+chakra flow, kenjutsu+V1 tailed beast chakra would be enough for everything besides giant snakes but yeah V2 would decimate all of that and oro eventually despite his impressive regen. Rashomon at best buy oro a bit more time but it won't stop a thinking opponent that can easily maneuver around it.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 3, 2015)

Base Bee just Raitons his body and slashes him up into pieces until he can't regenerate anymore. Base Bee is literally around KCM Naruto's level, so I wouldn't be surprised if Base Bee alone could take it.

 Also, I'm fairly certain a V2 Bee can use a Bijuudama since KN4 Naruto could, but perhaps that might not have been a Bijuudama?

 I'd say mid difficulty at the very most.


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## Veracity (Feb 3, 2015)

Base bee is nowhere around Kcm Naruto's level ...


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 3, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> Base bee is nowhere around Kcm Naruto's level ...



 Compared to shunshin speed, no but in skill and CQC, I can see him around KCM Naruto's level. Why? Simply b/c Killer bee managed to almost keep up with Itachi who could clash with SM Kabuto in CQC and bushin feint him multiple times along with the fact that he managed to fight off the Base Jin that managed to give KCM Naruto trouble as well.

 KCM Naruto is honestly overrated. He was getting beat around like a rag doll against Obito yet Base Gai was having an easier time fending him off.


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## Bonly (Feb 3, 2015)

blackguyinpinksuit said:


> Honestly Acrobat+chakra flow, kenjutsu+V1 tailed beast chakra would be enough for everything besides giant snakes but yeah V2 would decimate all of that and oro eventually despite his impressive regen. Rashomon at best buy oro a bit more time but it won't stop a thinking opponent that can easily maneuver around it.



But how does B put down Orochi for good? Orochi was ripped in half and put him self back together, hell he had an arm ripped off and just made a new body, so what is cutting Orochi who now has a Zetsu body made from Hashi's DNA gonna do? Nothing much and what happens when Orochi uses his true form upon which his blood releases a numbing poison which B has no knowledge of? Does that not leave B open to an attack to be defeated if Orochi played dead? Does Killer B attacks do nothing but cause Orochi to bleed if hit(being cut with swords or being hit by a lariat)?

With Orochi having more knowledge on B then vice verse, them being in this town with no LoS while Orochi has snakes which can sense body heat meaning he'll likely find B first(clones also help in this), Orochi being able to use clones, Orochi's true form, blah blah blah, you get the point, I don't think it's a simple case of V2 GG.  



NarutoX28 said:


> Also, I'm fairly certain a V2 Bee can use a Bijuudama since KN4 Naruto could, but perhaps that might not have been a Bijuudama?



"You can't do it if you're not in full beast mode"

If Gyūki himself says it can't be done in V2 despite the fact that he's been with B for decades, I doubt Killer B can use such in V2. He shouldn't get that right just because Naruto could do such.



NarutoX28 said:


> Compared to shunshin speed, no but in skill and CQC, I can see him around KCM Naruto's level. Why? Simply b/c Killer bee managed to almost keep up with Itachi who could clash with SM Kabuto in CQC and bushin feint him multiple times



Naruto has the use of multiple chakra arms which gives him access to a shit load of jutsu as well as his chakra arms having some nice strength, he use and redirect the FRS he throws, his KCM boost his speed+durability, Naruto still has a healing factor going on, he now has negative emotion sensing along with clones to help in CQC. Base B's skills are nice and what not but what he did with Itachi isn't enough to suggest he's around KCM Naruto's level.



> along with the fact that he managed to fight off the Base Jin that managed to give KCM Naruto trouble as well.



What did B do to them in Base? All he managed to do was either A)Get hit by their attacks, B) Clash/defend himself from their attacks, C) Try to attack them but fail in doing anything or D) Save Naruto when he was distracted when dealing with another attack most of the time. 

This is the same Naruto who was training on his KCM, left out and constantly used KCM to run towards the war zone until he met up with A+Tsunade. He then used KCM during that bout with A, kept it up until he met with the white Zetsu clones in an army squad. He then used multiple jutsu fighting them off and then he split his chakra up 13 different ways between himself and 12 clone, hell at the end of the Itachi+Nagato fight when Naruto tried to make a clone he ended up losing his KCM. So in other words B saved a Naruto nowhere near his full power so B saving Naruto shouldn't be viewed as impressive as if Naruto was at 100 percent. 

So really what is impressive about what base B did against the Jins again that somehow puts him on the level of a fresh KCM Naruto?



> KCM Naruto is honestly overrated. He was getting beat around like a rag doll against Obito yet Base Gai was having an easier time fending him off.



Gai has been training damn near his entire life in Taijutsu, of course he'll have an easier time then Naruto would, you make it sound like getting beaten by Obito is something shameful when multiple characters would lose(including Base Gai had he been by himself and stuck in base). KCM Naruto isn't overrated in the least bit, with the sheer amount of chakra he has along with all the jutsu he can use along with clones and a healing factor, ect. He's rated finely.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 3, 2015)

Bonly said:


> "You can't do it if you're not in full beast mode"
> 
> If Gyūki himself says it can't be done in V2 despite the fact that he's been with B for decades, I doubt Killer B can use such in V2. He shouldn't get that right just because Naruto could do such.



 I know what he said, yet KN4 Naruto was able to do it which makes no sense since KCM Naruto suddenly isn't able to it. I guess Kishi fucked up, but I'll take your word for it.





> Naruto has the use of multiple chakra arms which gives him access to a shit load of jutsu as well as his chakra arms having some nice strength, he use and redirect the FRS he throws, his KCM boost his speed+durability, Naruto still has a healing factor going on, he now has negative emotion sensing along with clones to help in CQC. Base B's skills are nice and what not but what he did with Itachi isn't enough to suggest he's around KCM Naruto's level.



 That is true, but considering Killer Bee can match V1 Raikage's speed and match him if it wasn't for Raikage's Raiton Armor would suggest that Killer Bee can at least match KCM Naruto's normal speed before he uses shunshin. I still think that's something incredible to take into account and Killer Bee shouldn't be underrated because of it.

 And all you really just argued was that KCM Naruto is simply a bad match up for Killer Bee who has no ranged jutsu and has an elemental weakness which fucks him up as Killer Bee doesn't have the level of speed as shunshin (which I admitted is much faster than Base Bee) and being able to utilize chakra arms and get off an FRS where Killer Bee has nothing to counter it obviously fucks him up against high level opponents.





> What did B do to them in Base? All he managed to do was either A)Get hit by their attacks, B) Clash/defend himself from their attacks, C) Try to attack them but fail in doing anything or D) Save Naruto when he was distracted when dealing with another attack most of the time.



 KCM Naruto didn't do anything either?



> This is the same Naruto who was training on his KCM, left out and constantly used KCM to run towards the war zone until he met up with A+Tsunade. He then used KCM during that bout with A, kept it up until he met with the white Zetsu clones in an army squad. He then used multiple jutsu fighting them off and then he split his chakra up 13 different ways between himself and 12 clone, hell at the end of the Itachi+Nagato fight when Naruto tried to make a clone he ended up losing his KCM. So in other words B saved a Naruto nowhere near his full power so B saving Naruto shouldn't be viewed as impressive as if Naruto was at 100 percent.
> 
> So really what is impressive about what base B did against the Jins again that somehow puts him on the level of a fresh KCM Naruto?



 This is true and I guess KCM Naruto's clones do overwhelm him. That doesn't negate the fact that KCM Naruto is still having his chakra restores replenished by Kurama and the fact that multiple KCM Naruto level'd opponents can't utilize clones. Being a CQC fighter that can keep up with KCM Naruto level'd opponents, but gets rekt by KCM Naruto doesn't negate the fact that ranged fighters will always have the advantage over physical fighters and that many of them don't have the stamina/ chakra to be able to utilize shadow clones as efficiently as KCM Naruto. At least in CQC, he can certainly match KCM Naruto which puts him way above Orochimaru.

 There's also the fact that his chakra arm was effortlessly dodged by 3rd Raikage twice with the only reason KCM Naruto even landing the hit was supposedly b/c it was an attack where no one even expected Naruto to be able to do that. KCM Naruto also had trouble evading V1 Raikage and even Base Bee did just as well, if not a bit better by actually matching his level of strength w/ a Lariat as opposed to KCM Naruto who couldn't do it at all. 

 Even if he's not at KCM Naruto's level, his feats suggest he just obliterates Orochimaru. 




> Gai has been training damn near his entire life in Taijutsu, of course he'll have an easier time then Naruto would, you make it sound like getting beaten by Obito is something shameful when multiple characters would lose(including Base Gai had he been by himself and stuck in base). KCM Naruto isn't overrated in the least bit, with the sheer amount of chakra he has along with all the jutsu he can use along with clones and a healing factor, ect. He's rated finely.



 The same Gai who was blocked by a weakened Kisame where Kisame couldn't do the same to Bee? C'mon now.


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## Trojan (Feb 3, 2015)

B wins. I can't see how can Oro possibly win without the ET.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 3, 2015)

Looking back, I did overestimate Base Bee a little bit.

 I still think he's closing in on KCM Naruto's level, but isn't quite there yet.


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## Bonly (Feb 4, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> I know what he said, yet KN4 Naruto was able to do it which makes no sense since KCM Naruto suddenly isn't able to it. I guess Kishi fucked up, but I'll take your word for it.



Kurama is at higher level then the other Bijuu and it was Kurama who was in control of Naruto's body at the time 4tails+6tails Naruto used a Bijuudama, with how much Kishi wanks off Kurama compared to the other Bijuu it's not that much of a surprise, at least not to me.



> That is true, but considering Killer Bee can match V1 Raikage's speed and match him if it wasn't for Raikage's Raiton Armor would suggest that Killer Bee can at least match KCM Naruto's normal speed before he uses shunshin. I still think that's something incredible to take into account and Killer Bee shouldn't be underrated because of it.



B can't really match V1 A for the most part movement speed wise. Base B's Shunshin is great but normal speed isn't there yet with V1 A.



> And all you really just argued was that KCM Naruto is simply a bad match up for Killer Bee who has no ranged jutsu and has an elemental weakness which fucks him up as Killer Bee doesn't have the level of speed as shunshin (which I admitted is much faster than Base Bee) and being able to utilize chakra arms and get off an FRS where Killer Bee has nothing to counter it obviously fucks him up against high level opponents.



No I argued why Base B isn't the same level as KCM Naruto(didn't evel list all KCM Naruto has going for him), you have to take in all of the things a character can do along with their feats and what not if you're gonna compare one another to see their level and if B also happens to be a bad match up then so be it.  



> KCM Naruto didn't do anything either?



Did I claim he did do something?



> This is true and I guess KCM Naruto's clones do overwhelm him. That doesn't negate the fact that KCM Naruto is still having his chakra restores replenished by Kurama and the fact that multiple KCM Naruto level'd opponents can't utilize clones.



That sounds like bad news for people around his level to deal with.



> Being a CQC fighter that can keep up with KCM Naruto level'd opponents, but gets rekt by KCM Naruto doesn't negate the fact that ranged fighters will always have the advantage over physical fighters and that many of them don't have the stamina/ chakra to be able to utilize shadow clones as efficiently as KCM Naruto.



That sounds like it's not Naruto's problem. He can't help him if people who focus on CQC might not have his range and stamina and shit.



> At least in CQC, he can certainly match KCM Naruto which puts him way above Orochimaru.



Naruto still has all those things to use in CQC which means Base B still doesn't match him.



> There's also the fact that his chakra arm was effortlessly dodged by 3rd Raikage twice with the only reason KCM Naruto even landing the hit was supposedly b/c it was an attack where no one even expected Naruto to be able to do that.



I wasn't bringing up the chakra arms for speed but more so for the multiple uses they give Naruto although to correct you here the Sandaime only dodged a chakra arm once although Naruto wasn't aiming said arm at him, he was trying to hit with the FRS. As you can see here the chakra arm threw the FRS then Naruto came up from behind and hit the Sandaime. So the Sandaime dodged FRS twice, not the chakra arms twice.



> KCM Naruto also had trouble evading V1 Raikage and even Base Bee did just as well, if not a bit better by actually matching his level of strength w/ a Lariat as opposed to KCM Naruto who couldn't do it at all.



B got brushed off to the side and overpowered the majority of time he went against A and damn near all of those times he attacked A right after A dealt with Naruto. Hell the one time B didn't get overpowered and brushed off was when he finally managed to overpower A that one time and even then B got brushed off to the side seconds(or minutes) later when A went V2 to try and finish off Naruto. I don't think getting brushed off like he did would warrant him doing better then Naruto, barely can even suggest he did the same seeing as how he mostly attacked when A was focusing on Naruto instead. 



> Even if he's not at KCM Naruto's level, his feats suggest he just obliterates Orochimaru.



He obliterates Orochi just for Orochi to troll him and make a new body. Wow.




> The same Gai who was blocked by a weakened Kisame where Kisame couldn't do the same to Bee? C'mon now.



Kisame never tried to block B like he did Gai. B attacked with blades filled with Raiton, why the fuck would he try to block it with his body like how he used his body to block a kick? Pretty sure the answer isn't because he can't block B but more so that he's not fucking retarded and doesn't want anybody poking all these damn holes in him.


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

Oro has a limited amount of chakra. He can only make new bodies for so long...


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## Alex Payne (Feb 4, 2015)

Zetsu-body Orochimaru should be near-unkillable and with massive amount of chakra. His only problem here is V2 chakra cloak durability. Depending on how tough it is compared to KN4 Oro might need to resort to White Snake Mode and its poison. Outside that Oro can handle most of B's stuff imo - Mandara no Jin, KBs, Futon: Daitoppa, summons, his merging tech and regen all allow Oro to evade CQC confrontation and force ranged combat. In which B is hilariously outclassed. His only real option is to simply plow through various Oro's tech using brute force and I don't think V1 is good enough for that. Far weaker Oro was faring decently against KN4 which still looks stronger than B's V2. 

So unless B's V2 is around KN4 level, that V2 can be kept up for a prolonged period of time and White Snake poison for some reason wouldn't work I see B losing. Manda 2 should probably be restricted also.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

bee wins
orochimaru was a horrendous dissapointment 
he didnt show much of anything. 

bee restricted or not restricted beats orochimaru to the ground for sport


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## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2015)

Killer bee wins this mid diff at most

 -- orochimaru has no way whatsoever of putting down bee once he goes V2, which results in him getting pulverized just how he did against KN4 

 -- Bee is faster than him, and more reflexive than him, so engaging him in CQC results in orochimaru getting his neck blown off by lariats continuously and with bee having Samehada means that he can simply absorb his chakra to suck him dry 

 -- Orochimarus durability is not helping him from getting incapacitated by bees lariat so not seeing how he can't  get GGd there. And bee can still ragdoll him to enforce him into using oral rebirth. Which drains orochimaru and allowing to finish him for good.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

actually killer bee lariat will split oro in half thats about it
wont kill him. however orochimaru will run out of steam and loose


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

For the love of God, stop saying "mid difficult" for everything, ARGUS! 
seriously!!


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## ARGUS (Feb 4, 2015)

Hussain said:


> For the love of God, stop saying "mid difficult" for everything, ARGUS!
> seriously!!



I dont say it for everything though, only in threads where its actualy a mid diff fight,
not my fault that the majority of them are mid diff fights

how is it bad but? iits just a difficulty assosciated with a fight, i dont know why you get annoyed soo much,


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## Trojan (Feb 4, 2015)

Its irritating.


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## Deer Lord (Feb 4, 2015)

Orochi as he normally is will lose to bee more often than not under these conditions.
I can however see the situation reversed if this is Oro with zetsu body as mokuton fucks up bijuu in general.


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## Icegaze (Feb 4, 2015)

by zetsu orochimaru didnt show he can use mokuton
i really hate what kishi did to orochimaru. he had so much potential 
yet ended up at best mid kage level to most when he should be well in the high end


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 5, 2015)

Lol. KN4 was tearing Orochimaru's body apart. V2 B's Lariat would turn Orochimaru to paste, or at least a significant portion of his body. B stomps him.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Lol. KN4 was tearing Orochimaru's body apart. V2 B's Lariat would turn Orochimaru to paste, or at least a significant portion of his body. B stomps him.



 Don't kid yourself. V2 isn't even needed. Base Bee easily takes this.


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## Veracity (Feb 5, 2015)

Base bee isn't beating a Sannin member lmao.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 5, 2015)

Likes boss said:


> Base bee isn't beating a Sannin member lmao.



 Yet no evidence to support such claims.

 Edit: I don't disrespect your opinion, but actually provide evidence before calling my evidence shit. In the mean time, I will just say Oro lost to a paralyzed Sasuke, so thus Base Been wins easily.


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## blackguyinpinksuit (Feb 5, 2015)

Bonly said:


> But how does B put down Orochi for good? Orochi was ripped in half and put him self back together, hell he had an arm ripped off and just made a new body, so what is cutting Orochi who now has a Zetsu body made from Hashi's DNA gonna do? Nothing much and what happens when Orochi uses his true form upon which his blood releases a numbing poison which B has no knowledge of? Does that not leave B open to an attack to be defeated if Orochi played dead? Does Killer B attacks do nothing but cause Orochi to bleed if hit(being cut with swords or being hit by a lariat)?


Yes oro's regen is top tier shit that is a fact but it'll only prolong his defeat if he can't harm his opponent(while said opponent can make him die from chakra exhaustion). Besides the blood stopping bee's movement oro can't stop him with his level of attacks not to mention hachibi could likely protect bee by making chakra appendages to tear oro apart some more. Oro's zetsu suit chakra reserves never really been tested to the max. We know he can make tobirama his bitch as a edo casually while tapping into the cells but that does not really contend with the chakra reserves bee got especially if he is making oro waste his rapidly to survive.

About oro playing dead bee got that is a tactic that could be utilized if bee stays in base but i doubt against this caliber of opponent(he canonically brought out his tailed beast chakra for akatsuki level opponents and even while "playing" with taka). I did acknowledge that bee could be taken out in base and "wins more times than not" in my other post though.



> With Orochi having more knowledge on B then vice verse, them being in this town with no LoS while Orochi has snakes which can sense body heat meaning he'll likely find B first(clones also help in this), Orochi being able to use clones, Orochi's true form, blah blah blah, you get the point, I don't think it's a simple case of V2 GG.


Oro would have more knowledge but that will only help him at assassinating bee in base. The same thing goes for his snakes and clones finding bee first. If bee knows he is fighting oro i see him destroying the town in cloaked mode to expose him rather than strolling around looking in hiding places for orochimaru. Oro can beat base bee but certainly not V2(which should happen here most of the time).


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 6, 2015)

> V2 B has never turned anyone to paste with a lariat, all he managed to do is blow open a chest and Orochi laughs when he gets cut in half which is worst. But yeah stomps cuz "lol lariat" which is weaker then an attacked he came back laughing from.



Yeah, he ripped off Sasuke's chest in *V1*. *V2 * w/ the skeleton is *much* more powerful. Don't know about "turn to paste" but Oro gets wrecked by it, badly, and he will need to recover, and a simple reattachment isn't going to work.

Lol, I really hope you aren't implying that any of KN4's attacks are stronger than Lariat....I pray to God you aren't....though you've shown that you have a bad understanding of how different attacks work.

Lol, nope. A normal sword can cut Oro in half, but Lariat is much stronger than a normal sword. Orochimaru can easily recover from getting cut in half because of his snakes can reattach him. Lariat is going to mess up his body, and that's when he'll have to start using up his chakra recovering with Oral Rebirth. 

Orochimaru is also not known to be super durable, so he's not taking something that blew Sasuke's chest out without using Oral Rebirth let alone taking and shrugging off something MUCH stronger than what blew Sasuke's chest off. He wastes his chakra, B keeps pounding him, assuming V2 Lariat doesn't wreck him beyond repair, and I'm seeing zero reason as to why it can't, considering a far weaker one tore off Sasuke's chest, a stronger one would tear off and blow apart more than just Oro's chest.



> Orochi has access to all five basic elements, Mokuton, a Zetsu body, possibility that he can use all of white Zetsu's jutsu,snakes which can poison on a single bite and each can spit out a sword to use, great ass regen, high stamina, his true form which allowed him to live after his head got cut off from the rest of his body which his body lets out a poison which damn near no one knows about, the curse seal which if he bits B he can throw B off his game,Shadow clones, a suicide jutsu(the one he taught Anko), ect. and yet he's "certainly not" beating B in V2?



Most of the stuff you mentioned is literally irrelevant. 

-Elements? Lol, who cares? He doesn't even have jutsu from all 5, and out of the ones he does have, they are all fodder.

-Mokuton? Trash level Mokuton that is.

-Zetsu Body? Zetsu's Jutsu are fodder. The only thing that could even be a remote factor is Hoshi no Jutsu, but then B would obliterate the spore clones and still have a buttload of chakra left. Oro isn't outlasting, so get that idea out of your head.

-Snakes? Swords? Cant pierce the V2 cloak.

-Regen? Assuming he can survive a V2 Lariat, he'd pretty much have to spam his regen, and it takes a lot of chakra, so his stamina doesn't mean much when B can make him spam chakra intensive moves, and has a Bijuu on his side.

-Poison? Sure, his poison is nice and all....but immobilizing B doesn't matter when he can't hurt him.

-Curse Seal? Has to bite him first, and he can't pierce the V2 cloak.

-Suicide Jutsu? I'm appalled you even brought that jutsu into a debate against a high tiered Ninja like B. Not even sure if serious.

-Shadow Clones? To do what exactly? Splitting his chakra isn't wise when he'll be spamming Oral Rebirth clinging onto life while B pounds him.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 6, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> -Poison? Sure, his poison is nice and all....but immobilizing B doesn't matter when he can't hurt him.



Orochimaru can just suffocate him or something when he's immobilized.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

bee wins. but for anyone to assume base bee wins is laughable 
base bee cant even beat tsunade

y'all should stop it please. 

Unrestricted bee wins. multiple TBB is the only way bee is putting orochimaru down. Bee sealing techs is countered by oral rebirth and lariat for all the hype it has been given isnt going to do much. orochimaru spits out a new body. Based on the fact that he has the reserves to use senjutsu, i gotta say he can spit himself out a shit load of times before running out of steam 

What ororchimaru however cant survive is multiple TBB

lariat is laughed off btw. orochimaru took a giant sword to the chest and questioned itachi reason as if to say such would be useless if it coudlnt seal him. 
Bee can lariat all he wants, orochimaru wont risk ever dying from such


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## FlamingRain (Feb 6, 2015)

If multiple Tailed Beast Bombs is the only way that Bee wins then he isn't going to win in this thread, because Tailed Beast Mode is restricted.


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## Bonly (Feb 6, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> A bunch of shit.



Prove that V2 B's lariat is gonna do more damage then this which Orochi was smiling about. Prove that the lariat is gonna mess up his body that it's questionable that Orochi can survive and Orochi can't either A)Put his body back together or B)Make a new body and smile about it. 



> -Elements? Lol, who cares? He doesn't even have jutsu from all 5, and out of the ones he does have, they are all fodder.



Can you prove that he doesn't have a jutsu from all five of them?



> -Mokuton? Trash level Mokuton that is.



Trash level Mokuton is still gonna fuck him up unless he's in V2, oh wait you think B is gonna be in V2 the entire match 24/7 so it's useless amiright?



> -Zetsu Body? Zetsu's Jutsu are fodder. The only thing that could even be a remote factor is Hoshi no Jutsu, but then B would obliterate the spore clones and still have a buttload of chakra left.



You do realize that Orochi can use the jutsu multiple times through the fight right? You do realize that the spore clones can also give chakra to a person as well as absorb chakra which means the chakra they do manage to drain, Orochi can take for himself right?



> Oro isn't outlasting, so get that idea out of your head.



Prove it then.



> -Snakes? Swords? Cant pierce the V2 cloak.



Sure but they can get to him in base and V1.



> -Regen? Assuming he can survive a V2 Lariat, he'd pretty much have to spam his regen, and it takes a lot of chakra, so his stamina doesn't mean much when B can make him spam chakra intensive moves, and has a Bijuu on his side.



If only he had a chakra draining jutsu to go along with his need body made straight from Hashi's crack DNA that he can use throughout the course of the fight, oh wait he does.



> -Poison? Sure, his poison is nice and all....but immobilizing B doesn't matter when he can't hurt him.



He can get a large snake to eat B and poof elsewhere to get the win or perhaps that suicide jutsu with a clone can get the job done or he can use Hoshi jutsu to drain B's chakra while he's immobilized. Just some example of what he can do to win



> -Curse Seal? Has to bite him first, and he can't pierce the V2 cloak.



Sure but it can get to him in base and V1.



> -Suicide Jutsu? I'm appalled you even brought that jutsu into a debate against a high tiered Ninja like B. Not even sure if serious.



As if I care if your appalled or not, if B is immobilized then the Suicide jutsu with a clone has a good shot to end it whether you like it or not, unless you can prove otherwise that is.



> -Shadow Clones? To do what exactly?



To sit and have a tea party and rock out with their cocks out. The hell do you think they gonna do?



> Splitting his chakra isn't wise when he'll be spamming Oral Rebirth clinging onto life while B pounds him.



Damn welp it's too bad, only if he had a chakra draining jutsu to go along with his need body made straight from Hashi's crack DNA and is anyone else getting a case of Deja Vu here?


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> by zetsu orochimaru didnt show he can use mokuton
> i really hate what kishi did to orochimaru. he had so much potential
> yet ended up at best mid kage level to most when he should be well in the high end


With Zetsu's body his durability should increase along with his regenerative abilities. On top of this, he should have an earthly-sensory ability, should be able to use Mayfly (which doesn't really matter considering he can already use LaC), and the biggest part of the acquisition of the Zetsu body was to bridge the gap between Orochimaru and Sage Mode. 

His failures in the past in entering that mode were because of the weak bodies he was occupying which could not handle the strain of Sage Mode. With Zetsu's body, he should seemingly be able to enter it. 

Meaning, of course, he could be High Kage level, we just don't know.


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## Icegaze (Feb 6, 2015)

with TBB restricted even if orochi didnt have zetsu body he will still win 

do note its only till that showed up that orochimaru said oops now i could die. if you arent fighting someone who u cant kill however he can paralyze or kill you. you are going to loose

bee looses with these restrictions


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 6, 2015)

Bonly said:


> Prove that V2 B's lariat is gonna do more damage then this which Orochi was smiling about.



I literally already explained the difference between cutting attacks and attacks like Lariat, repeating this only shows that you've failed to read and/or comprehend my post, or it shows that you did both and decided to ignore it. An ignored point is a conceded one as they say. V1 Lariat took out a cliff, KN4's claws haven't shown that kind of power. "Cutting Oro in half" being a worse injury doesn't make said attack stronger, unless you'd like to admit that a sword slash>>Lariat, I suggest we actually learn how this shit works.



> Prove that the lariat is gonna mess up his body that it's questionable that Orochi can survive and Orochi can't either A)Put his body back together or B)Make a new body and smile about it.


Sasuke got his chest torn off by V1 Lariat. V2 Lariat is much stronger, so Oro takes much more damage than simply losing his chest. Kisame is physically superior to Orochimaru, and even with Samehada as a physical shield, and even when he absorbed some of B's chakra, the lariat was still powerful enough to blow off his chest, even while softened...let alone a direct hit to someone physically inferior.

Even if he lost his chest, he'd have to use Oral Rebirth, which is all B needs to do to force him to use up all his chakra. Hell, that isn't even necessary. Killer B can seal via Ink Clones. He slaps Oro around a bit, binds him, and then seals him away.




> Can you prove that he doesn't have a jutsu from all five of them?


-Looks through Manga.

-Sees no jutsu that meet this criteria.

When you can show me him using jutsu of the five elements, we can talk.




> Trash level Mokuton is still gonna fuck him up unless he's in V2, oh wait you think B is gonna be in V2 the entire match 24/7 so it's useless amiright?



Trash Level Mokuton is trash level Mokuton, so no, it's not going to do shit even if he's in V1 let alone V2. When you can get me some Mokuton feats from White Zetsu, that'd lead me or anyone with a good understanding of the manga to believe that it'd catch and overpower V1, let alone V2 Killer B, then we can talk.

Also, do you have a good reason as to why he won't be in V2 most of the match? If not, I suggest we don't even elaborate on this point.





> You do realize that Orochi can use the jutsu multiple times through the fight right? You do realize that the spore clones can also give chakra to a person as well as absorb chakra which means the chakra they do manage to drain, Orochi can take for himself right?


You do realize that  it'd fail each time right? You do realize that taking a tiny bit of chakra over and over again is useless when he'll be using that, and then some up on his own jutsu. Not to mention the more he uses it, the easier it gets to counter since he'll know what to expect.

Spamming Hoshi No Jutsu isn't giving him the win here. Not a chance in hell.



> Prove it then.


Bijuu>Orochimaru in chakra reserves.

Unless you are implying Orochimaru has more chakra than Gyuki, there's no debate on this topic. 




> Sure but they can get to him in base and V1.



They aren't piercing the V1 cloak either. Part 1 KN1 can tank Sasuke's Katon, let alone a stronger cloak from a stronger Jinchuuriki tanking a weaker attack. Base is irrelevant since he has no reason to fight Orochimaru in Base.



> If only he had a chakra draining jutsu to go along with his need body made straight from Hashi's crack DNA that he can use throughout the course of the fight, oh wait he does.


If only he could take anything more than an insignificant amount of chakra before the spores are ripped off......too bad he can't. Zetsu couldn't even take enough chakra to exhaust the Kage let alone a Perfect Jin w/ unrestricted access to his Bijuu.




> He can get a large snake to eat B and poof elsewhere to get the win



Because B is going to sit there and let a large snake eat him even though:

-Part 1 KN0 was outmaneuvering and overpowering giant snakes.

-Tsunade pinned Manda with a sword.

Two people who are nowhere near  B's speed or power. 



> or perhaps that suicide jutsu with a clone can get the job done


Wow...are we serious with this point? Orochimaru has to catch Killer B first, and make a handsign using BOTH their hands. Are you telling me that Orochimaru is not only physically powerful enough to restrain B, but to force him to make a handsign? All before B mollywhops him into next week? Lol. 

Not to mention he can't make clones or use any kind of Ninjutsu while he's in his true form.



> or he can use Hoshi jutsu to drain B's chakra while he's immobilized. Just some example of what he can do to win


Read above. No Ninjutsu in his true form, you can forget about Hoshi No Jutsu, especially since his True Form isn't in a Zetsu Body, thus no Zetsu powers.

Then there's the fact that Hoshi No Jutsu can't absorb all his chakra before the poison wears off.



> Sure but it can get to him in base and V1.


If only you had any shred of evidence that Oro can pierce through the V1 cloak.




> As if I care if your appalled or not, if B is immobilized then the Suicide jutsu with a clone has a good shot to end it whether you like it or not, unless you can prove otherwise that is.


Except you've failed to tell me how Orochimaru is going to use the suicide jutsu with his clone. If he summons clones before he uses his true form, B takes out the clones and then obliterates Orochimaru, thus no giant snakes and no Suicide Jutsu.



> To sit and have a tea party and rock out with their cocks out. The hell do you think they gonna do?


They might as well, because Oro's clones are fodder, even more so than him. They get obliterated and then the original gets his.



> Damn welp it's too bad, only if he had a chakra draining jutsu to go along with his need body made straight from Hashi's crack DNA and is anyone else getting a case of Deja Vu here?



Yup, Deja Vu. If only you could actually provide feats and logical reasoning for half the stuff you claimed here. If only you can provide feats that show Hoshi being able to absorb significant amounts of chakra before B tears them off, because the Kage sure didn't lose a lot of chakra to that jutsu.


Lol Killer B stomps, and based off these arguments, I can tell that my opinion isn't changing any time soon. Not even the manga's portrayal agrees with you. Orochimaru was getting pushed around by KN4, let alone V2 Killer B w/ all 8 tails and his skeleton, a Jinchuuriki with full control of his powers, unlike the Jin who was pooping on Orochimaru.


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## DaVizWiz (Feb 6, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> with TBB restricted even if orochi didnt have zetsu body he will still win
> 
> do note its only till that showed up that orochimaru said oops now i could die. if you arent fighting someone who u cant kill however he can paralyze or kill you. you are going to loose
> 
> bee looses with these restrictions


Now this I disagree with. Killer Bee's base speed was enough to pressure Sharingan Jins with shared vision, and he saved KCM Naruto multiple times from them, and from his brother Ei with his stellar reactions as well as anticipating FTG. On top of this, he destroyed Taka (CS1 Jugo, Suigetsu, MS Sasuke) with relative ease while holding back, without Samehada and beat two of them without using a weapon.

There were literally multiple times where Base Killer Bee was moving as fast, if not faster than KCM Naruto. He is faster than Orochimaru. 

But it's not just the speed, it's the durability, the tentacle extensions and the fact that he's armed with Samehada. Base Killer Bee can avoid, tank, block with tentacles or outright absorb all of Orochimaru's arsenal. What can Orochimaru conceivably beat him with? The fact that he can enter V1, let alone V2, seals the deal for me.

V1 Killer Bee's physical strength is incredible [1] and his base strength is notable [2], knocking back a man that could hold a V3 Legged Susano in the air with one arm while tasting his strength (Ei's lariat) is an incredible feat for Base Bee. This is not something that Orochimaru is going to survive against for a very long time, not to mention Samehada can suck him dry right after each of Killer Bee's blows. Orochimaru was knocked out cold by PT.1 Tsunade after only two shots. 

ARGUS was correct when he said that Orochimaru would struggle to deal with Killer Bee's lariat, it can and will liquefy his body upon connecting, resulting in an explosion of his flesh. How Sasuke survived it is beyond me, clearly plot had a part in that.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 6, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> Orochimaru can just suffocate him or something when he's immobilized.



Suffocate him? With what? Then there's the fact that the poison doesn't last forever. Then there's the fact that Bijuu Chakra Arms don't need to be released by the physical movement of said Jinchuuriki, even if B is physically paralyzed, he can still sprout chakra arms.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 6, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Suffocate him? With what?



Extended tongue, a bundle of snakes maybe, beneath a giant summon, with a pillow he steals from a nearby house since they're in Tanzaku.

Plenty of things.



> Then there's the fact that the poison doesn't last forever.



Good thing suffocating somebody only takes a few moments, then.



> Then there's the fact that Bijuu Chakra Arms don't need to be released by the physical movement of said Jinchuuriki, even if B is physically paralyzed, he can still sprout chakra arms.



I don't think that shows that Bee will still be able to attack after being affected by the poison.

Sasuke didn't exactly need physical movement to utilize Chidori Nagashi, his Curse Mark, or genjutsu either...so where were they when he was about to get eaten? Nowhere to be seen, apparently.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 6, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> Extended tongue, a bundle of snakes maybe, beneath a giant summon, with a pillow he steals from a nearby house since they're in Tanzaku.



 Too bad Bee can avoid them and isn't as bloodlusted as KN4 Naruto who charges in recklessly whereas Bee doesn't (within reason).





> Good thing suffocating somebody only takes a few moments, then.



 Good thing Killer Bee has chakra arms.





> I don't think that shows that Bee will still be able to attack after being affected by the poison.
> 
> Sasuke didn't exactly need physical movement to utilize Chidori Nagashi, his Curse Mark, or genjutsu either...so where were they when he was about to get eaten? Nowhere to be seen, apparently.



 It's possible he couldn't as all of those techniques rely on Sasuke's chakra where as the Hachibi's chakra arms don't. The Hachibi's chakra was never disrupted by Tsukyomi, so I'd assume it wouldn't be disrupted by poison which only merely paralyzed Sasuke whereas Bee couldn't even move at all and the V1 chakra shroud still surrounded him.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 6, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> Extended tongue, a bundle of snakes maybe, beneath a giant summon, with a pillow he steals from a nearby house since they're in Tanzaku.
> 
> Plenty of things.
> 
> ...



Can't use any of that when he's in his true form. He only has access to himself, and his body parts. He can't use any Ninjutsu, nor does he even have hands to grab any kind of pillow.





> I don't think that shows that Bee will still be able to attack after being affected by the poison.
> 
> Sasuke didn't exactly need physical movement to utilize Chidori Nagashi, his Curse Mark, or genjutsu either...so where were they when he was about to get eaten? Nowhere to be seen, apparently.



1. He was already using his Curse Mark, not to mention it's useless if he himself can't move.

2. Genjutsu? You need eye contact. Hard to do that when you are paralyzed while the opposition can attack you from any angle, not to mention he even one shotted with it despite getting caught.

3. Chidori Nagashi? How? He'd have to be close to him, and by the time Oro is close enough to Sasuke to use it, the latter will practically be in his mouth. Not to mention Chidori Nagashi paralyzing a giant snake seems unlikely.


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## Icegaze (Feb 7, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Now this I disagree with. Killer Bee's base speed was enough to pressure Sharingan Jins with shared vision, and he saved KCM Naruto multiple times from them, and from his brother Ei with his stellar reactions as well as anticipating FTG. On top of this, he destroyed Taka (CS1 Jugo, Suigetsu, MS Sasuke) with relative ease while holding back, without Samehada and beat two of them without using a weapon.



What does that have to do with being able to put down orochimaru who can take every base hit bee can dish out with utter neg dificulty. bee never fought someone who could win by playing on counter attack 



> There were literally multiple times where Base Killer Bee was moving as fast, if not faster than KCM Naruto. He is faster than Orochimaru.



Good thing orochimaru doesnt need speed to hit bee. like i said mutual strike and bee gets worse off than orochimaru. people dont get that if i just have to focus on hitting you while ignoring your attacks am going to be getting more shots in than you who has to dodge and hit me 



> But it's not just the speed, it's the durability, the tentacle extensions and the fact that he's armed with Samehada. Base Killer Bee can avoid, tank, block with tentacles or outright absorb all of Orochimaru's arsenal. What can Orochimaru conceivably beat him with? The fact that he can enter V1, let alone V2, seals the deal for me.



Orochimaru is less durable however is much harder to kill. moot point. i did restrict samehada 



> V1 Killer Bee's physical strength is incredible [1] and his base strength is notable [2], knocking back a man that could hold a V3 Legged Susano in the air with one arm while tasting his strength (Ei's lariat) is an incredible feat for Base Bee. This is not something that Orochimaru is going to survive against for a very long time, not to mention Samehada can suck him dry right after each of Killer Bee's blows. Orochimaru was knocked out cold by PT.1 Tsunade after only two shots


. 

V1 bee strength<<<<<<<<<<<<<KN4 naruto. moot point then. 



> ARGUS was correct when he said that Orochimaru would struggle to deal with Killer Bee's lariat, it can and will liquefy his body upon connecting, resulting in an explosion of his flesh. How Sasuke survived it is beyond me, clearly plot had a part in that.



any feats of it liquifing anyones body

it blew sasuke chest. big woop. orochimaru can survive being split in half with utter ease. he doesnt even need oral rebirth for that. and that was in a body which was rejecting him. 

bee needs hachibi or looses.


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## Arles Celes (Feb 7, 2015)

Oro is hard to kill due to his regeneration but Bee is hard to damage especially in V2.

In fact in V2 even Oro's Kusanagi might not be able to damage Bee.

Unless Oro's poison works or he is allowed to use ET he stands no chance.


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## Icegaze (Feb 7, 2015)

thats true Arles however Bee simply cannot kill orochimaru without TBB 
so its them stalemating till orochimaru runs out of steam
which means he wins high difficulty


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 7, 2015)

> it blew sasuke chest. big woop. orochimaru can survive being split in half with utter ease. he doesnt even need oral rebirth for that. and that was in a body which was rejecting him.



You people need to actually start using common sense and learn that having your body along with a bunch of organs torn out=/=Being cut in half. Can Oro simply reattach his body after being blown to shit with Lariat? No, he can't. Thus he needs Oral Rebirth. Stop using him being cut in half as some kind of evidence.

By this logic, Orochimaru wouldn't need Oral Rebirth if someone clawed a giant hole into his body, even though he would. Kabuto cut his neck apart, and he needed Oral Rebirth.


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## Icegaze (Feb 7, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> You people need to actually start using common sense and learn that having your body along with a bunch of organs torn out=/=Being cut in half. Can Oro simply reattach his body after being blown to shit with Lariat? No, he can't. Thus he needs Oral Rebirth. Stop using him being cut in half as some kind of evidence.
> 
> By this logic, Orochimaru wouldn't need Oral Rebirth if someone clawed a giant hole into his body, even though he would. Kabuto cut his neck apart, and he needed Oral Rebirth.



Oro didn't need oral rebirth against kabuto he choose to use it 
When he lost an arm he used it as well 

However lariat would at the very best split him in half which he cans imply ignore 
Even if he used oral rebirth big woop he can keep using it 

With a body rejecting him he could use it 4 times 

How many times do you think bee can use v2 lariat ??

Bee is entirely incapable of defeating orochimaru without TBB


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## FlamingRain (Feb 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Too bad Bee can avoid them and isn't as bloodlusted as KN4 Naruto who charges in recklessly whereas Bee doesn't (within reason).



I might agree if we were talking about normal Bee, but I'm talking about post-neurotoxins taking effect Bee specifically here; he can't avoid anything while effectively immobilized.



> It's possible he couldn't as all of those techniques rely on Sasuke's chakra where as the Hachibi's chakra arms don't. The Hachibi's chakra was never disrupted by Tsukyomi, so I'd assume it wouldn't be disrupted by poison which only merely paralyzed Sasuke whereas Bee couldn't even move at all and the V1 chakra shroud still surrounded him.



*Chakra* arms don't realy on Chakra of all things? Seriously?

Chakra being present doesn't necessarily equate to Chakra being capable of being refocused toward a specific task. Sakura was able to build up Chakra even after Sasori poisoned her, but she had issues _controlling it_ once said poison started to kick in. Sasuke had the Sharingan active when he was affected but he never tried using a genjutsu on Orochimaru despite the snake looking right at him _(1)_, so we could still say that even if Bee's shroud stays active he likely won't be able to properly manipulate it in order to form Chakra arms and have them attack Orochimaru (because it's not exactly like he resorted to Chakra arms in the instance you referred to either).



KeyofMiracles said:


> Can't use any of that when he's in his true form. He only has access to himself, and his body parts. He can't use any Ninjutsu, nor does he even have hands to grab any kind of pillow.



You cannot be serious right now.

His *tongue* _*is*_ a body part, as are plenty many snakes when he is in his true form- did you completely miss that panel where he turned Sasuke into a freaking Silcoon made out of snakes?

And even though I was joking with the pillow I'm just going to point out to you anyway that he doesn't need hands to pick it up; he can have one or two snakes lift it with their mouths (or just constrict it) and then hold it on Bee's face that way.



> 1. He was already using his Curse Mark.



He turned the Curse Mark off just before collapsing, so you're wrong here. Activating it without even moving busted him out of that body-encompassing wrap of snakes earlier, so it would've been much better than just sitting there doing nothing.



> 2. Genjutsu? You need eye contact.



Sasuke was looking Orochimaru right in the face while the latter was talking, so...



> 3. Chidori Nagashi? How? He'd have to be close to him, and by the time Oro is close enough to Sasuke to use it, the latter will practically be in his mouth.



Chidori Nagashi sent Naruto and Sai flying while ripping into Yamato's Mokuton extension. Regardless of whether or not it would succeed in paralyzing Orochimaru, I think it has enough knock-back force to at least deter a biting attempt when used on someone who has their mouth wide open, which is a good enough reason for Sasuke to use it if he's able to.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 7, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> I might agree if we were talking about normal Bee, but I'm talking about post-neurotoxins taking effect Bee specifically here; he can't avoid anything while effectively immobilized.



 If he gets caught in it.





> *Chakra* arms don't realy on Chakra of all things? Seriously?



 Doesn't rely on his chakra.



> Chakra being present doesn't necessarily equate to Chakra being capable of being refocused toward a specific task. Sakura was able to build up Chakra even after Sasori poisoned her, but she had issues _controlling it_ once said poison started to kick in. Sasuke had the Sharingan active when he was affected but he never tried using a genjutsu on Orochimaru despite the snake looking right at him _(1)_, so we could still say that even if Bee's shroud stays active he likely won't be able to properly manipulate it in order to form Chakra arms and have them attack Orochimaru (because it's not exactly like he resorted to Chakra arms in the instance you referred to either).



 Doesn't refute the fact that the Hachibi's chakra isn't his own and doesn't rely on his to be able to attack. Hachibi chakra was still active despite being Tsukyomi'd.

 Chakra arms won't kill Sasuke anyways. With having the speed and power to fuck up Sasuke clutching his right eye, it's completely logical to go for a killing blow with Lariat instead of chakra arms which may not get the job done.

 You seem to ignore the fact that all those things rely on Sasuke's chakra, esp. the Cursed Seal which consumes the user's chakra, but never provides him with his own. Hachibi actually provides the user chakra and is actually a separate entity, so it will not effected by the poison unless you can prove Genjutsu suddenly affects a Bijuu inside a Jinchuuriki host.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> If he gets caught in it.



He's going to. Bee has no method to detect the vapors and no knowledge of them.



> Doesn't refute the fact that the Hachibi's chakra isn't his own and doesn't rely on his to be able to attack.



You obviously don't understand the relationship between a Jinchūriki and a Tailed Beast.

Pay close attention to Bee and Kisame's words here _(1)_ _(2)_, as well as Gyūki's clarification here _(3)_.

The Tailed Beast *doesn't* manipulate Chakra for the Jinchūriki, all it does is gather it and supply it to the Jinchūriki; the host is the one who actually has to _control it_ in order to use specific techniques, not the Tailed Beast. Therefore if Bee loses his ability to properly control that Chakra, it will not matter if the Eight Tails keeps supplying him with more, he will still not be able to conjure up Chakra arms and have them attack Orochimaru.



> Hachibi chakra was still active despite being Tsukyomi'd.



Which doesn't mean he could focus it into additional arms, and as such this is irrelevant.



> Chakra arms won't kill Sasuke anyways.



Chakra arms ripped Orochimaru in half. They would have killed Sasuke if they could be used.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 7, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> He's going to. Bee has no method to detect the vapors and no knowledge of them.



 That depends if Oro gets it off before Base Lariats tears Oro into pieces which is unlikely. 





> You obviously don't understand the relationship between a Jinchūriki and a Tailed Beast.
> 
> Pay close attention to Bee and Kisame's words here _(1)_ _(2)_, as well as Gyūki's clarification here _(3)_.



 Those don't even imply that the Hachibi relies on or even uses Bee's chakra.



> The Tailed Beast *doesn't* manipulate Chakra for the Jinchūriki, all it does is gather it and supply it to the Jinchūriki; the host is the one who actually has to _control it_ in order to use specific techniques, not the Tailed Beast. Therefore if Bee loses his ability to properly control that Chakra, it will not matter if the Eight Tails keeps supplying him with more, he will still not be able to conjure up Chakra arms and have them attack Orochimaru.



 Really? KN1 Naruto begs to differ. It's obvious that it's more effective for a Bijuu and it's host to cooperate to become stronger. This is pretty much stated, but it does not mean that the Bijuu cannot act on it's own. Shukaku Gaara vs. Gamabunta is a clear example as Gaara was asleep for the whole match yet the Bijuu was acting entirely on its own. Even BM Naruto swapped places with Kurama to provide chakra to Kakashi, so a Bijuu can act enitrely on its own.





> Which doesn't mean he could focus it into additional arms, and as such this is irrelevant.



 Doesn't refute what I said.





> Chakra arms ripped Orochimaru in half. They would have killed Sasuke if they could be used.



 Correction: V2 chakra arms cut Oro in half.

 This is probably true, but considering he was much faster and Sasuke was clutching his right eye, Lariat was likely the best choice as it is his strongest attack which is pretty much implied. Why he didn't use Chakra arms? No idea, but using your strongest attack that you can actually land is better than using a weaker attack anyways.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 7, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> That depends if Oro gets it off before Base Lariats tears Oro into pieces which is unlikely.



How exactly is that unlikely?

Bee's _Lariat_ isn't going to kill Orochimaru, especially not in base. Orochimaru's just going to use his version of the Kawarimi to pop out new bodies if he gets hit, and he's smart enough to revert to his white snake powers in order to resort to the neurotoxin tactic before he runs out of Chakra to regenerate with.



> Those don't even imply that the Hachibi relies on or even uses Bee's chakra.



They're not supposed to.

What they do is demonstrate that Bee uses the Eight Tails's Chakra himself, as opposed to Gyūki acting on his own.



> Really? KN1 Naruto begs to differ.



Kn1 Naruto never did anything independently of...well, Naruto.

Naruto has just been using Kurama's Chakra.



> It's obvious that it's more effective for a Bijuu and it's host to cooperate to become stronger. This is pretty much stated, but it does not mean that the Bijuu cannot act on it's own. Shukaku Gaara vs. Gamabunta is a clear example as Gaara was asleep for the whole match yet the Bijuu was acting entirely on its own. Even BM Naruto swapped places with Kurama to provide chakra to Kakashi, so a Bijuu can act enitrely on its own.



Now you're skipping details on purpose.

1.) Shukaku:

He could only ever start acting once _Gaara himself_ casted the _Tanuki Neiri no Jutsu_; that is the only point at which Shukaku himself can do anything.

2.) Gyūki:

He wanted to finish off Kisame right away but he couldn't just do it on his own, he had to _ask Killer Bee to *let* him out_, which requires Bee to use his own power to do _(1)_.

3.) Kurama:

Had to tell _Naruto_ to change _(2)_.

So I'll reiterate that if Bee loses his ability to control his Chakra Gyūki can't do it for him. Even if it was possible for Bee to swap psyches with Gyūki, it wouldn't matter, because the poison isn't targeting that- it's targeting the body itself- if the body doesn't work right it doesn't matter which one of them is in control of it, it just isn't going to work.



> Doesn't refute what I said.



What you said doesn't need refuting. It's _irrelevant_ to what I said.



> This is probably true.
> 
> Why he didn't use Chakra arms? No idea.



Concession accepted.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 7, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> *You cannot be serious right now.*
> 
> His *tongue* _*is*_ a body part, as are plenty many snakes when he is in his true form- did you completely miss that panel where he turned Sasuke into a freaking Silcoon made out of snakes?



Wasn't referring to the tongue part, and I was talking about giant snake summons. Forgot to specify, though that assumes that he has the physical strength to suffocate B through his V2 cloak. (If we are talking about strangling) If we are just talking about covering his nose and mouth, then you'd have to prove that he can do this before the poison wears out, considering B was capable of fighting Kisame underwater for a good amount of time, where he has no access to air.

But, the bold is ironic coming from you, since we are talking about suffocating B of all things.  That only begins to show how bad a position Oro is in for this fight.



> And even though I was joking with the pillow I'm just going to point out to you anyway that he doesn't need hands to pick it up; he can have one or two snakes lift it with their mouths (or just constrict it) and then hold it on Bee's face that way.


Uh-huh.



> He turned the Curse Mark off just before collapsing, so you're wrong here. Activating it without even moving busted him out of that body-encompassing wrap of snakes earlier, *so it would've been much better than just sitting there doing nothing.*


But does it change the fact that it would do nothing? No. It's *paralyzing *poison, not sure why you are trying to argue it prevents jutsu from being used when not a thing even close to that was implied. Jutsu don't require physical movement unless they need hand signs, or are things like Rasengan and Chidori, and even then physical movement is only needed to deal damage.

Also, do you even know why it busted him out of the snakes binding? Because his wings pushed out his body. How does that help him get out of a paralyzing poison?



> Sasuke was looking Orochimaru right in the face while the latter was talking, so...


Sasuke looking at Oro=/=Sasuke making eye contact with Oro. So....you have no point here.




> ]Chidori Nagashi sent Naruto and Sai flying while ripping into Yamato's Mokuton extension. Regardless of whether or not it would succeed in paralyzing Orochimaru, I think it has enough knock-back force to at least deter a biting attempt when used on someone who has their mouth wide open, which is a good enough reason for Sasuke to use it if he's able to.



This post defeats itself. Sasuke tossing Naruto and Sai back and destroying a tiny branch doesn't mean he'll be able to toss a giant snake away with the same jutsu. Makes zero sense.


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## KeyofMiracles (Feb 7, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Oro didn't need oral rebirth against kabuto he choose to use it
> When he lost an arm he used it as well


Empty assumptions are empty. He used it cause he needed it.



> However lariat would at the very best split him in half which he cans imply ignore
> Even if he used oral rebirth big woop he can keep using it



Except Lariat isn't going to split him in half, it's going to tear his body apart considering a far weaker one tore Sasuke's chest off. That's something he can't ignore.



> With a body rejecting him he could use it 4 times
> 
> How many times do you think bee can use v2 lariat ??



Lol. B has a shitload of chakra, and Lariat costs no chakra, only stamina as it's NinTaijusu. The only chakra cost is the cost of holding up his cloak. He can use it way way more than 4x. Lol.



> Bee is entirely incapable of defeating orochimaru without TBB



B would shit on Orochimaru w/o Bijuu Dama and Bijuu Mode. The only B Oro can beat is probably V1, and even then that's debatable. This isn't.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 7, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> How exactly is that unlikely?
> 
> Bee's _Lariat_ isn't going to kill Orochimaru, especially not in base. Orochimaru's just going to use his version of the Kawarimi to pop out new bodies if he gets hit, and he's smart enough to revert to his white snake powers in order to resort to the neurotoxin tactic before he runs out of Chakra to regenerate with.
> 
> ...



 Looking back, you're correct.

 The only reason KN1 Naruto did anything was because of Naruto's lack of will and motivation to get Sasuke back. 

 So you can accept my concession.


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## FlamingRain (Feb 8, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Wasn't referring to the tongue part, and I was talking about giant snake summons.



Well it wasn't just that you didn't specify, you actually said "any of that", but okay.



> Forgot to specify, though that assumes that he has the physical strength to suffocate B through his V2 cloak. (If we are talking about strangling)



The cloak is tough, but it seems to be pretty flexible. Orochimaru's fist and the Kusanagi didn't just bounce off of Kn4's cloak; even though they failed to break through it, they did at least press into it, and Orochimaru just has to constrict Bee's airway, not break his neck.



> If we are just talking about covering his nose and mouth, then you'd have to prove that he can do this before the poison wears out, considering B was capable of fighting Kisame underwater for a good amount of time, where he has no access to air.



The actions that transpired inside the water dome shouldn't have amounted to anything more than a couple minutes at the very most. We may not really know how long Orochimaru's neurotoxins last since we don't know how long after the onset it was before Kabuto showed up (in addition to things like Sasuke's built up poison resistance and acquirement of Orochimaru's own abilities upon absorption), but I seriously doubt that any poison effect somehow lasts less than a few minutes.



> But, the bold is ironic coming from you, since we are talking about suffocating B of all things.



Why can't I be serious while saying Orochimaru suffocates somebody? He _has_ tried to cut off Tsunade's air, and he _did_ cover Sasuke up from head to toe.

I don't see the irony.



> It's *paralyzing* poison, not sure why you are trying to argue it prevents jutsu from being used when not a thing even close to that was implied.



You claimed that Bee would still defend himself after being poisoned because Chakra arms don't require physical movement. I pointed out that Sasuke has multiple skills which don't require physical movement and yet he never used any of them. Any sort of resistance is better than _no_ resistance, so there has to be an explanation as to why he didn't resort to a single one of those options in that situation (like they didn't remain accessible just because they don't require physical movement).

I pointed to Orochimaru's poison having that effect because it makes more sense than any alternative I can think of. The fact that Orochimaru called it paralytic does nothing to detract from that suggestion, especially not when Orochimaru's former partner, Sasori, also uses a paralyzing poison and yet it apparently disrupts Chakra control (which as you should know is required to cast any Jutsu, meaning it basically disrupts attempts to utilize Jutsu).

You can try to come up with a better explanation, but you haven't done it so far.



> Also, do you even know why it busted him out of the snakes binding? Because his wings pushed out his body. How does that help him get out of a paralyzing poison?



It doesn't need to help him get out of the poison, only out of Orochimaru's bite. Sasuke suddenly getting bigger due to two giant wings sprouting would suffice for that, because they're wider than Orochimaru's mouth had been opened. Even better if he used it to amp up a Chidori Nagashi.



> Sasuke looking at Oro=/=Sasuke making eye contact with Oro. So....you have no point here.



It's not like Orochimaru's eyes were outside of Sasuke's field of vision or vice versa. You can draw a line from Orochimaru's eyes straight to Sasuke's face. If Sasuke could get an airborne Killer Bee and a C that wasn't even looking at him in genjutsu he should have been able to snag Orochimaru with something there, and yet he didn't, which asks for an explanation.



> Sasuke tossing Naruto and Sai back and destroying a tiny branch doesn't mean he'll be able to toss a giant snake away with the same jutsu.



I never said "toss away". Don't get it twisted. I said deter a biting attempt, it doesn't need to do anything more than make Orochimaru recoil.

Orochimaru is not _that_ big, and having the inside of your mouth exposed is going to leave you significantly more vulnerable than you would be if only your external hide was accessible. It should also be possible to use the Curse Mark to amplify it much further, since activating that, like activating Chidori Nagashi, requires no physical movement on Sasuke's part. So I think it should be able to do what I actually said it could, which is better than just sitting there, and yet...all Sasuke did was sit there.


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## Icegaze (Feb 12, 2015)

KeyofMiracles said:


> Empty assumptions are empty. He used it cause he needed it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awwww poor kid 
You don't know much of everything do u

So oro can survive being split and reattach himself yet needs oral rebirth to get his arm back ?
Or wait can survive a giant chakra sword through his torso without so much as needing to regen but it's oddly enough fodder kabuto chakra scalpel he needs to spit himself out to survive ?

I guess you can say sasuke or any other character used their jutsu in those situations always because they needed to and not wanted to . Guess bee couldn't go hachibi and could only use V2 against kisame since u know he didn't go hachibi 

Wanting to I something isn't the same as needing to do it 

Prove lariat tears his body appart 
When all it did was blow a hole in kisame chest 
Which as far as damage is concerned isn't remotely as bad as being split in half 

Bee needs TBB to put him down all his other jutsu are stall tactics 

Bee can keep knocking orochimatu down however orochimaru eill keep getting back up

Either reattaching or oral rebirth . 

However bee it's immune to being  paralyzed


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 12, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Awwww poor kid
> 
> 
> Prove lariat tears his body appart
> ...



 Yet you conveniently ignore that his sharp Samehada parried the attack and absorbed his V2 chakra which made it much weaker. It's still impressive that it blew a hole in Kisame's chest. Base Lariat from Bee can already match V1 Raikage's Lariat. It doesn't even matter if Oro can regenerate from it. The question is is if he can keep fighting and tank all that damage being done.



> Bee needs TBB to put him down all his other jutsu are stall tactics



 Stronger chakra arms will cut him into pieces, the same way Sasuke did against Oro.



> Bee can keep knocking orochimatu down however orochimaru eill keep getting back up
> 
> Either reattaching or oral rebirth .



 You do realize that it takes quite a bit of chakra to regen and Oro Rebirth constantly while Bee has the feats that suggests he can just continuously chop him in half in base.



> However bee it's immune to being  paralyzed



 True and like FlamingRain addressed, that's the only way Killer B loses.

 If you mean he is immune, then he probably isn't considering FlamingRain provided a great argument for why that is.


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## Icegaze (Feb 13, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> Yet you conveniently ignore that his sharp Samehada parried the attack and absorbed his V2 chakra which made it much weaker. It's still impressive that it blew a hole in Kisame's chest. Base Lariat from Bee can already match V1 Raikage's Lariat. It doesn't even matter if Oro can regenerate from it. The question is is if he can keep fighting and tank all that damage being done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So long as oro has chakra he can keep tanking and fighting 
I didn't ignore it . The best lariat would have done is go through kisame completely which would be the equivalent of splitting him in half . Oro can tank that no issues 

Being cut to pieces is nothing to orochimaru

Bee has zero feats to suggest he can chop oro in half in base lol don't make shit up 

Oro doesn't need oral rebirth to reattach himself so it depends what damage bee is dealing

Bee isn't immune to any poison and can loose 

TBB is the only attack that forced a weak orochimaru fighting Kn4 who is actually capable of bijuudama to worry about his safety 

V2 l?rait can be blocked by rashomon

Orochimaru have to keep tanking the attacks he can block them 
Giant snakes as well to weak the blows


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## The Pirate on Wheels (Feb 13, 2015)

Bee chops him up until Oro goes WSM and gets more chopped up.  Then Bee succumbs to the toxin and Oro kills him via CS bite or a different poison or suffocation or whatever.


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## Icegaze (Feb 13, 2015)

How does bee chop him up and with what ?
His little swords 
Big whoop orochinaru reattaches himself


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 13, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> How does bee chop him up and with what ?
> His little swords
> Big whoop orochinaru reattaches himself



 That doesn't mean he can't feel any pain. I'm certain if Bee just Lariat'd his head off, he's going to feel pain.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Feb 14, 2015)

Without Bijudama nor full Biju Mode, Orochimaru wins. Killer Bee literally has nothing that can keep Orochimaru down and Orochimaru's versatility, regeneration, elemental advantage (and the fact he can use all five), and his possibility of fucking with Killer Bee's seal gives him the edge.


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## Icegaze (Feb 14, 2015)

NarutoX28 said:


> That doesn't mean he can't feel any pain. I'm certain if Bee just Lariat'd his head off, he's going to feel pain.



Say that to the smiley face he pulled when he got split in half
Or say that to itachi who saw Him laugh at a huge chakra blade through his torso

As I have said bar TBB bee would loose


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## sabre320 (Feb 14, 2015)

how does orochimaru beat v2 bee...he was helpless against 4tailed naruto....bee keeps ripping him apart with v2 chakra arms till he runs out of chakra or just sucks him dry with samaheda..


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## Icegaze (Feb 14, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> how does orochimaru beat v2 bee...he was helpless against 4tailed naruto....bee keeps ripping him apart with v2 chakra arms till he runs out of chakra or just sucks him dry with samaheda..



Helpless looool
He found kn4 amusing 
Read the bloody manga 
Also kn4 naruto can at least use bijuudama bee can't 

Bee can keep doing that . Won't help him at all 

Orochimaru tanks and poisons bee 

Also samehada is restricted .


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## sabre320 (Feb 14, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Helpless looool
> He found kn4 amusing
> Read the bloody manga
> Also kn4 naruto can at least use bijuudama bee can't
> ...



yes he was amused by kn4 yet he was getting pummled by kn4 was completely on the defensive couldn't land any damage would have died to bijudama his defense demolished and reached his limit and collapsed read the manga..

chakra tails and arms can be used from a very long distance.... bee needs to be within 5 meters for a sustained period for the toxin to work and not to mention bee has v2 cloak to protect hi and crazy regen in v2 to counteract the poison..orochimaru keeps tanking them but regenerating takes chakra and oral rebirth is very chakra taxing bee can outlast orochimaru easily


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## Kazekage94 (Feb 14, 2015)

You put a mid tier against a high tier? Stop making bad threads. Killer B clearly wins


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## Nikushimi (Feb 14, 2015)

Orochimaru can't penetrate a Bijuu chakra cloak with anything in his moveset.

B rips him in half with a V2 Lariat, then stuns him with Raiton and goes in for the ink clone submission.


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## Raiken (Feb 14, 2015)

I don't see how Orochimaru can win this.
An Orochimaru with no arms "in relation to soul and chakra" was loosing to V2 Naruto "4 Tails"
Pretty sure V2 B "8 Tails" is going to be stronger than that.

Difference is, B can't use Bijuu Dama in V2, or chooses not to "painful?", however, he only uses it if in Bijuu Mode.
But he has the bonus of control and the intelligent fighting that comes with it.

Killer B wins High Difficulty.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 15, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Say that to the smiley face he pulled when he got split in half
> Or say that to itachi who saw Him laugh at a huge chakra blade through his torso
> 
> As I have said bar TBB bee would loose



 Actually, that is a fair point and I did forget about Hydra.


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## Nikushimi (Feb 15, 2015)

V2 Lariat ripped open Kisame's chest _through_ Samehada, and that fucker was perfectly intact after Hirudora blew up in his face.

They'll need Orochimaru's dental records to identify the body, after he gets pulped.


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## Icegaze (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> yes he was amused by kn4 yet he was getting pummled by kn4 was completely on the defensive couldn't land any damage would have died to bijudama his defense demolished and reached his limit and collapsed read the manga..
> 
> chakra tails and arms can be used from a very long distance.... bee needs to be within 5 meters for a sustained period for the toxin to work and not to mention bee has v2 cloak to protect hi and crazy regen in v2 to counteract the poison..orochimaru keeps tanking them but regenerating takes chakra and oral rebirth is very chakra taxing bee can outlast orochimaru easily



And kn4 landed no permanent damage on orochimaru 
And last I checked Orochimaru took him out of the battle field 
Also note kn4 used TBB which is >>>>>>>lariat yet Orochimaru was still left standing 
Assuming killer bee lariat is going to be putting down Orochimaru is funny as hell 

For those assuming killer bee in v2 >>> kn4
No proof of that . Kn4 can TBB V2 and knock him out


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## sabre320 (Feb 15, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> And kn4 landed no permanent damage on orochimaru
> And last I checked Orochimaru took him out of the battle field
> Also note kn4 used TBB which is >>>>>>>lariat yet Orochimaru was still left standing
> Assuming killer bee lariat is going to be putting down Orochimaru is funny as hell
> ...



Last i checked orochimaru used kusanagi and it was useless and orochimaru collapsed because of the damage he sustained put him on his limit...

4tailed naruto above v2 bee.... he only has dps because of bijudama in all other areas bee is superior..

Lariat dosent need to put orochimaru down.. in a battle of attrition orochimaru loses no 2 ways about it


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## Icegaze (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> Last i checked orochimaru used kusanagi and it was useless and orochimaru collapsed because of the damage he sustained put him on his limit...
> 
> 4tailed naruto above v2 bee.... he only has dps because of bijudama in all other areas bee is superior..
> 
> Lariat dosent need to put orochimaru down.. in a battle of attrition orochimaru loses no 2 ways about it



Orochimaru was at his limit because his body was rejecting him
He said so on panel don't make shit up to make a case 

Bee isn't immune to poison . It won't be a battle of attrition


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## sabre320 (Feb 15, 2015)

Icegaze said:


> Orochimaru was at his limit because his body was rejecting him
> He said so on panel don't make shit up to make a case
> 
> Bee isn't immune to poison . It won't be a battle of attrition



bee has v2 chakra protecting him and ridiculous regen because of it to counteract the poisons effects..can use chakra tails and arms to rip orochimaru from distance and does not need to stay close for sustained periods for the poison


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## Bonly (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> bee has v2 chakra protecting him and ridiculous regen because of it to counteract the poisons effects..



Can you show me this regen B has going onto suggest it would counteract the effects of poison?



> can use chakra tails and arms to rip orochimaru from distance and does not need to stay close for sustained periods for the poison



Killer B is mainly a CQC and he has *Zero* knowledge of the poison, so why would he not stay close again?


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## FlamingRain (Feb 15, 2015)

sabre320 said:


> bee has v2 chakra protecting him and ridiculous regen because of it to counteract the poisons effects.



The V2 Chakra isn't protecting anything. Bee still has to breathe, meaning he can still inhale the neurotoxins.

I'm also pretty sure that regenerative abilities take a back seat in V2 _(1)_, and Gyūki's probably aren't as potent as Kurama's anyway.



> can use chakra tails and arms to rip orochimaru from distance and does not need to stay close for sustained periods for the poison



Orochimaru can just avoid them from a distance.

That's also way out of character. Bee is a close-combat specialist that isn't even aware of the fact that Orochimaru uses poisons, and he won't know he's being exposed to them until they take effect.


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## UchihaX28 (Feb 15, 2015)

FlamingRain said:


> The V2 Chakra isn't protecting anything. Bee still has to breathe, meaning he can still inhale the neurotoxins.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure that regenerative abilities take a back seat in V2 _(1)_, and Gyūki's probably aren't as potent as Kurama's anyway.



 Naruto was also affected by the poisonous Kunai Sakura attempted to use on Sakura, so Hachibi isn't helping Bee regenerate from the poison.





> Orochimaru can just avoid them from a distance.
> 
> That's also way out of character. Bee is a close-combat specialist that isn't even aware of the fact that Orochimaru uses poisons, and he won't know he's being exposed to them until they take effect.



 This quite frankly.

 I'm actually starting to think Orochimaru wins due to Poison and Hydra which V2 Bee can't do anything against unless he uses his Bijuu form + Bijuudama which is restricted here.


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