# Tokyo Anime/Manga ban passed



## pikachuwei (Dec 13, 2010)

Fuck


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 13, 2010)

> ?
> 
> The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru, bishoujo titles such as Champion Red and most BL manga, as well as any seinen manga with especially mature themes, banned from general sales ? presumably most will then be cancelled due to a lack of suitable magazine or tankobon distribution channels, with a few perhaps being resurrected as 18+ ero-manga.



seinen manga? Like Berserk?

Anyway this is terrible news.


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## Mael (Dec 13, 2010)

You could always read books instead.


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## Legend (Dec 13, 2010)

That sucks on sooo many levels


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## Lupin (Dec 13, 2010)

> The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru,




OH MY FUCKING GOD


FUCK


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## Bender (Dec 13, 2010)

What's up doc?



Yeah... you should uh, do some searching before you post this stuff

On another note

Chill the fuck out

They won't be doing jack shit


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## hehey (Dec 13, 2010)

Will this spell the end of berserk and Gantz!!??


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## Spica (Dec 13, 2010)

Most BL-manga? What kind? Sankaku mentioned school-yaoi, but since my objects of desire are MEN like Aizen, I'm cool with it.

Bara probably doesn't count because it features mature men aimed at mature men.

Shotacon?


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## Bender (Dec 13, 2010)

The end of competent politicians.... 

just the end... of competence..


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## Gino (Dec 13, 2010)

Japan


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## LadyTenTen (Dec 13, 2010)

What?! So definitely, manga and anime will be only for kids? No more seinen?

These are bad news for sure. But seinens are not the one to blame for extremist otakus in Japan. They usually watch kawaii/moe series, not seinens.

What's next? Literature?


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## Kelsey (Dec 13, 2010)

BL MANGA?! BL?! I think I would die a little inside.


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## Blue (Dec 13, 2010)

>Sankaku Complex


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## Ƶero (Dec 13, 2010)

Those fuckers best not mess with my Berserk and Gantz


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## Disquiet (Dec 13, 2010)

> Tokyo’s ban on anime, manga and games featuring “virtual crimes” or which are “likely to interfere with the healthy development of youth” has passed after the DPJ agreed to support it.


Ah, so one of those "whatever we feel like pulling" bans then.

How progressive.


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## Netorie (Dec 13, 2010)

I...no! No fucking way.  Great, make my day worse. A small piece of my soul just broke off and vanished.


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## Keollyn (Dec 13, 2010)

They wanna expand on the loli market, that's all.


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## Fran (Dec 13, 2010)

Keollyn said:


> They wanna expand on the loli market, that's all.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2010)

That website is filtered here. What's the scoop?


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## soulnova (Dec 13, 2010)

Wait, wait.... what I understood was that they will be available but only as adult mangas now. 



> It is very difficult to objectively assess the scope of the law – along with vague and subjective terms like “interfere with the healthy development of youth,” the law also includes “etc.” on the end of most of its examples, leaving it quite unclear, for example, whether the “improper glorification of illegal sexual activity, etc.” applies to only virtual sex crimes, or all crimes in general – presumably the interpretation adopted will be whichever is convenient to censors.
> 
> Similarly, the ban’s mention of “rape and other sexual acts which violate societal norms” seems inevitably to point to a ban on depictions of homosexuality, considering who was behind the law.
> 
> ...



Berserk was already a Seinen and sold as one. I hope Miura doesn't get any problems from this. Just as when they started to publish every month....It would royally suck.


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## LadyTenTen (Dec 13, 2010)

My understanding was that it was approved by the general affairs committee to be voted on by the full assembly on Wednesday, so there's still some hope for right now.
Of course, it doesn't really matter what the result is this time anyway since if it doesn't pass they'll just change a word or two in order to make it even more vague and then try to push it through yet again... and again... and again... and again... hoping to exhaust any opponents into submission.


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## CrazyMoronX (Dec 13, 2010)

Oh, nothing to see here.


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## makeoutparadise (Dec 13, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ba7D52bjs[/YOUTUBE]


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## Ludwig The Holy Blade (Dec 13, 2010)

Ha, people earlier were saying that if a manga was deemed unsuitable that it would be banned outright, becuase only porn can be put in the adult only section. I'm glad that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, because it seemed pretty retarded.

I'm totally opposed to the bill of course, but at least nothing is going to be banned outright. Stuff like Berserk, which have a large older readership, should be fine. The big 3 are the ones who might run into trouble, but I really doubt they'd be retarded enough to ban those, considering their economic value.


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## PerveeSage (Dec 13, 2010)

blame feminists.


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## DremolitoX (Dec 13, 2010)

Meh. Who cares, I only read Naruto anyways.


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## Munak (Dec 13, 2010)

So dicks drawn in Doraemon?

Hallibel's underboobies?

Fairy Tail?

All gone or in the corner you go?


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## makeoutparadise (Dec 13, 2010)

Munak said:


> Fairy Tail?



whoa! whoa! Fairy Tail? lets not go crazy here, how is Fairy Tail in danger?


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## Munak (Dec 13, 2010)

makeoutparadise said:


> whoa! whoa! Fairy Tail? lets not go crazy here, how is Fairy Tail in danger?



I dunno, dem boobies? 

But seriously, I like Fairy Tail.


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## LadyTenTen (Dec 13, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> blame feminists.


May I ask the reason of that post? 

---------------
Guys, ur misunderestimating this bill.

As much as i oppose this, the effects of it won't kill the anime industry.

Shows like To-Love Ru will survive and be made. But they'll be less riskier and at the same time, they'll be +18 instead of +15.

And since this only affects Tokyo, i'll expect a rise in indie anime studios within a few years in Kyoto and Hokkaido, just like the French New Wave and New Hollywood scenes popping up after strict censorship laws in both France & USA in the 50s and 60s.

The industry would survive.


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## Eru Lawliet (Dec 13, 2010)

> Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed ?a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography? on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged ? that the bill is intended exclusively as an ?anti-otaku? law seems to be beyond doubt.



Wait, did I understand that right, they ban loli-hentai, but not animated child porn is allowed?
I mean, I approve of that loli stuff getting banned, but it's ridiculous to not ban the not animated child pornography.


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## Fran (Dec 13, 2010)

Ban Naruto


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## T.D.A (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't see how getting rid of graphic rape scenes so bad and child porn that children read. the response to this is too funny.


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## Eru Lawliet (Dec 13, 2010)

Thinking about this, the Japanese are alot more lenient in what they consider as harmful in comparison to the West, are they?


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 13, 2010)

>shitkaku complex


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## Orxon (Dec 13, 2010)

But I was just about to start reading Berserk and Gantz

at some point


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## hustler's ambition (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't read that shit anyway.


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## Shinigami Perv (Dec 13, 2010)

If Berserk is altered...


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 13, 2010)

Seriously though, so much for Japan being more progressive than the West.

Weaboos got told hard.


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## Hand Banana (Dec 13, 2010)

Doesn't affect me in anyway. Maybe this will filter out some of the weeboos.


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## Kira Yamato (Dec 13, 2010)

*Japanese Prime Minister Concerned About Tokyo International Anime Fair*



> According to 47 News, Japanese Prime Minister Kan Naoto mentioned the boycott of Tokyo International Anime Fair (TAF) by manga publishers in the official blog and said "It's important to promote Japanese anime to the world as well as to maintain the education of children. I want the people involved to work together to avoid cancellation of TAF."
> 
> *According to Jiji Tsushin, Torishima Kazuhiko, the senior managing director of Shueisha and the former editor of Dragon Ball, announced that Shueisha will not allow to exhibit anime related to their manga at TAF 2011.* At the ceremony of Newface Manga Author Award, Torishima encouraged the winners to "create manga which can knock down Ishihara Shintaro (the governor of Tokyo)." Ibaraki Masahiko, the chief manager of the third editorial department, said "Don't hesitate in creation. Jump magazine will publish anything fun."



With at least 10 different publishers pulling out in response to this ban, it wouldn't surprise me if even more decide to join them.


*Spoiler*: __


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## Eternal Pein (Dec 13, 2010)

Bulshit, total bullshit


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## dream (Dec 13, 2010)

I want to see all of them pull out.


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## Hand Banana (Dec 13, 2010)

Pac Man really? Way to sell us out bro.


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## LadyTenTen (Dec 13, 2010)

There's a TV series about Bambi being a Pirate or something?
Because I don't understand the pic of the deer below XDDD


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## emROARS (Dec 13, 2010)

Kelsey said:


> BL MANGA?! BL?! I think I would die a little inside.





I'm glad I'm not into anime/manga anymore. :<


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## Doc. Q (Dec 13, 2010)

so, If I read this right, it's a bunch of old politicians, think that maturely focused manga is for perverts and homosexuals. Try to pass a law as trying to reduce crime, when Japan has the lowest crime rate in the world.

And nobody who matters in Japan will care because they aren't otaku, and don't care about the filthy otaku.

Edit: Also, child porn good. Loli bad. that is totally not a call of personal preference on behalf of the lawmakers, because everybody agrees that drawn child porn is just gross, while legitimate pictures of 6 year olds spreading their legs is in line with cultural moors.


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## Frostman (Dec 13, 2010)

Japan has suddenly become less interesting.


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## seastone (Dec 13, 2010)

I am confused about this bill to be honest. Are they going to ban every manga that ?interfere with the healthy development of youth,? If they did that they would ban dozens of mangas, not to mention the authors would be out of work for a while. Or is just a censorship deal? 

Also does this apply for seinen manga as well, given that it has a more adult audience?


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 13, 2010)

Even the fucking Prime Minister knows it going to suck.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 13, 2010)

Glad I stopped reading manga


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

MaskedMenace said:


> I am confused about this bill to be honest. Are they going to ban every manga that “interfere with the healthy development of youth,” If they did that they would ban dozens of mangas, not to mention the authors would be out of work for a while. Or is just a censorship deal?
> 
> Also does this apply for seinen manga as well, given that it has a more adult audience?



It does not apply to adult materials such as seinen, as it is a "youth ordinance bill".

What is worrying about this bill is its 'kid friendly' label. The shounen publishers will be the ones hit the hardest, as they will be subject to broad penalty for any objectionable material that is found, such as any overt sexuality(IE schoolgirl uniforms), overglorification of violence(blood,gore) or any materials which would result in an individual committing criminal acts, which could mean anything 

Beyond that, if major players such as Shounen Jump do not subscribe to the law's wording either in protest or erroniously, they would be subject to penalties, and maybe even hit with an M-18 rating. Considering that SJ(And shounen Sunday which would be hit harder due to things like Kenichi) is specifically targeted at 14-17 year olds..well they're days could be numbered


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## Mider T (Dec 13, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Glad I stopped reading manga



This is going to apply to the EVA movies.


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## Mist Puppet (Dec 13, 2010)

6 months later, nothing happens. 

Forever Japan.


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## 王志鍵 (Dec 13, 2010)

Son of a bitch... 
Why do shitty over-protective parents(I assume they were the cause of this) have to use the government to get what they want and ruin it for everyone because they're too fucking lazy to regulate that shit for their own children? When their children grow up and become violent and perverted, who do they blame? Not themselves or their shitty parenting skills, but on anime, manga, violent video games, and Marilyn Manson.


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## Deathgun (Dec 13, 2010)

Am i the only one here that actually wants to hear Japans opinion of this?


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## Griever (Dec 13, 2010)

Bender said:


> What's up doc?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hope your right, that's so fucked up it's not even funny


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 13, 2010)

Mider T said:


> This is going to apply to the EVA movies.


Eh, even then. Pretty much anything I watched is over with except that. If Japan wants to be tools thats their issue.


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## Ito (Dec 13, 2010)

WHAT. THE. FUCK. 

This better not pass. I'm going to fuck someone up if it does.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

王志鍵 said:


> Son of a bitch...
> Why do shitty over-protective parents(I assume they were the cause of this) have to use the government to get what they want and ruin it for everyone because they're too fucking lazy to regulate that shit for their own children? When their children grow up and become violent and perverted, who do they blame? Not themselves or their shitty parenting skills, but on anime, manga, violent video games, and Marilyn Manson.



Ishihara dreamed up the bill on his own, of course the right wing parties of Japan will enjoy it, but it will be hell for everyone else, this is why there's such controversy over it.


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## Mider T (Dec 13, 2010)

@Ito: lol Okay.  Japanese gub'ment passes something, you threaten.  Go get em tiger.


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## Dash (Dec 13, 2010)

I couldn't understand like half the fucking article but it doesn't seem to affect me so whatever.


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## Momoka (Dec 13, 2010)

Can't they pass anything better?


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## Patchouli (Dec 13, 2010)

> But today in Tokyo, the second version of the bill went up for a vote and passed by the assembly with a final vote on Wednesday. As blogger Dan Kanemitsu points out, *the ordinance is not national legislation, and is not a ban per se, but penalizes companies that produce material that is harmful to those under 18 years-old.* Unlike in the U.S., companies that produce the material — and not retailers — come under fire.



Chill out guys, this won't dent the invincible shota market at all.


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## Sunuvmann (Dec 13, 2010)

Berserk and Gantz are the only things this has me giving any shit about.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

it won't effect seinen, but shounen...whoo boy


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Dec 13, 2010)

From what I've heard, the manga publishing companies (Shueisha, Shogakukan, etc.) are majorly pissed about this--the editor-in-chief of Shueisha actually publicly encouraged the mangaka in his company to create manga that would "blow away" the Tokyo governor who proposed this, and the Prime Minister himself has expressed concern over the announcement that 10 of the largest companies would be boycotting Tokyo's annual anime fair.  It seems a pretty stupid move on the Tokyo government's part to alienate companies that are such a vital part of their city's economy, especially in the current fragile economic climate.  I wouldn't be surprised to see some publishers threaten to move their headquarters to other cities unless the law is repealed.


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## pikachuwei (Dec 13, 2010)

Deathgun said:


> Am i the only one here that actually wants to hear Japans opinion of this?



1) go on 2chan
2) google translate
3) ???
4) Profit 

i dare you


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## Cinna (Dec 13, 2010)

Does anyone know what works exactly would fall into that criteria? This all seems so fishy for me. I am against graphic loli manga/anime, but it puzzles me that real child pornography is apparently allowed in Japan???  

Also the terms _"likely to interfere with the healthy development of youth"_ is so relative. I mean, doesn't that include a whole lot of other things too. Movies and literature and other stuff... 

What's worrying me, too, is the people who are pushing this law. All of them seem to be very conservative people who have no idea about what they're talking about. Apparently only men read manga. Also BL is the same as lol porn.  I don't even know...



> I get the impression that many manga lovers lead dead-end lives. Go talk to a living woman!
> 
> You don?t know what they?ll say from moment to moment, so they are far more interesting and lovely.



Also this:


> There are even homosexuals on TV now, as if there is nothing wrong with it. Japan is too unregulated. I come with a sense of duty.



WTF?? Ishihara and the people who support him seem to be living in a parallel universe. That or Japan is (in a weird way I must admit...) more backward than I thought.

Also:  (very interesing...)

I wonder how this will go on. *grabs popcorn Also, if shows are banned/cancelled, I don't really care. I rather feel sorry for the writers, animators and mangakas who'll have nothing to do.


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## Kei (Dec 13, 2010)

I WANT MY FUCKING BL!!!


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## emROARS (Dec 13, 2010)

lol at westerners.


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Dec 13, 2010)

95% of the people in this thread are retarded.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 13, 2010)

Look guys all the language in the bill says that any and all content in shounen Manga, Tv Series and Films that fall within the guidlines of This bill are going to be penalized heavily. People who watch Mature anime Tv Series, Films and read Seinen Manga have nothing to worry about since these titles are for adults anyway so quite having panick attacks series like Berserk, Gants, etc will continue on unaltered...

Nuff said'


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## Evil Ghost Ninja (Dec 13, 2010)

Which I translate into less fanservice in non adult manga. which will disapointing is ok to me.


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## Sky is Over (Dec 13, 2010)

Isn't that some shit?

One thing that makes Berserk great is the realism and no-holds barred to the content it displays.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

> Q: This is only sexual stuff, right?
> A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
> 
> Q: Elaborate?
> ...



to save time


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 13, 2010)

According to that interview not even manga like Naruto are really safe. Although I hope it is incorrect, it seems too unrealistic to be true.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

its real. ishihara is the boogieman of anime/manga fans  

Basically every anime/manga that you watch that is not designated as adults only or M-18 will be subject to penalty if not outright ban 

Better stock up on seinen's cause that's all one will be reading, unless your into shoujou (with no schoolgirls)


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## Sephiroth (Dec 13, 2010)

Anime is doomded.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

there's nothing else to do but laugh, its better than crying


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## Sephiroth (Dec 13, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> there's nothing else to do but laugh, its better than crying


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 13, 2010)

So it looks like if any shounen Series is to survive its gonna have to go seinen.

lol


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## Griever (Dec 13, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> its real. ishihara is the boogieman of anime/manga fans
> 
> Basically every anime/manga that you watch that is not designated as adults only or M-18 will be subject to penalty if not outright ban
> 
> Better stock up on seinen's cause that's all one will be reading, unless your into shoujou (with no schoolgirls)



Seinen jump?  sounds good to me, y'know so long as the series i'm reading don't get fucked up with censorship and keep the same release dates i'll be fine


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

^ that's if shounen jump doesn't die in the process.  I have to say that the shounen that you read and watch right now switching to seinen would be hard if not impossible at all, and it also might not be possible to recoup all the losses of not having the kid/teenage age group, which was the lionshare of profits. It would be a stretch to create a seinen mag and expect the same success, the same goes for shounen sunday.


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## Mider T (Dec 13, 2010)

I'll say it again, the entire wording of this bill is slippery slope.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 13, 2010)

^ the vague wording was intentional  The bill's pushers don't want to be caught having to rewrite it due to someone challenging its validity. So instead of just having sexual bans in there for all age groups like the last youth ordinance bill, its a ban on absolutely everything to minors 

That's why they rewrote it when it was challenged the first time, so it didn't happen again.


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## Bleach (Dec 13, 2010)

MY MANGA AND ANIME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Fuck  . This is gonna brew up a shit storm and it will be amended over time or overturned entirely.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

we'll see if the Japanese goverment actually cares, they passed it after all   Ishihara will make sure it never happens now that he's finally managed to do it.


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> ^ the vague wording was intentional  The bill's pushers don't want to be caught having to rewrite it due to someone challenging its validity. So instead of just having sexual bans in there for all age groups like the last youth ordinance bill, its a ban on absolutely everything to minors
> 
> That's why they rewrote it when it was challenged the first time, so it didn't happen again.



Someone challenging it seems inevitable though, especially if this thing is going all the way to the Trinity.


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## Bleach (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> we'll see if the Japanese goverment actually cares, they passed it after all   Ishihara will make sure it never happens now that he's finally managed to do it.



Well it's a Tokyo bill.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Like i said in another thread...its not even about the trinity Mider, SJ is just a magazine owned by Shueisha, and that company's anger is falling on deaf ears right now. Ishihara just does not care about this industry, he's always thought it promoted depravity and immorality among all else, and considering he's the one in charge and the democrats supporting him, it won't matter.


And to Bleach, Tokyo is the centre of all anime studio's of japan, as well as many manga studios, if its a law affecting Tokyo, it'll effect everywhere else


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## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

this is a prelude to the end of the world, in 2011 shit all gonna start
the maya predicted all from the begining 

well lets just chill and wait to see what will really happen... hmmm


> Update 2: The Yomiuri Shimbun paper reports that the Tokyo Metropolitan Government plans to make a handbook to specifically describe what content would be restricted, as well as a pamphlet for the general public. [Via Dan Kanemitsu] Bleach manga creator Tite Kubo expressed on his Twitter account his support for the publishers' decision to boycott



source


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## Kira U. Masaki (Dec 14, 2010)

Wait i really dont get if this bill is only Tokyo, whats stopping all these companies from moving to Osaka or other major cities in Japan.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

^ You can't just up and leave if your infrastructure has been laid in one place for decades, it would take years if they could even do it.


There was a Bleach thread about it being canceled too lol ironic


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## Mider T (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Like i said in another thread...its not even about the trinity Mider, SJ is just a magazine owned by Shueisha, and that company's anger is falling on deaf ears right now. Ishihara just does not care about this industry, he's always thought it promoted depravity and immorality among all else, and considering he's the one in charge and the democrats supporting him, it won't matter.
> 
> 
> And to Bleach, Tokyo is the centre of all anime studio's of japan, as well as many manga studios, if its a law affecting Tokyo, it'll effect everywhere else



Oh I know, I just brought up the Trinity because of the responses in the SL.


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 14, 2010)

The only things I follow on a regular basis are Naruto and Gundam, to be honest. And it looks like at least Naruto is screwed. Probably Gundam, too.

This honestly makes no sense. Considering how vague it is, just about anything can be deemed inappropriate. This bill can essentially wipe out the shounen industry entirely, which would severely cripple the anime/manga industry as a whole. And from what I understand, that's a decent bit of Japanese money going down the drain. I really can't see what any possible benefits of this could be. So 12-year-old boys see less cleavage and fighting in manga? But they can watch live-action films and it's okay? 

Kyoto Manga Museum might as well close its doors now, too. And did I just go to the last uncensored Comiket?  



Inuhanyou said:


> What is worrying about this bill is its 'kid friendly' label. *The shounen publishers will be the ones hit the hardest*, as they will be subject to broad penalty for any objectionable material that is found, such as any overt sexuality(IE schoolgirl uniforms), *overglorification of violence(blood,gore)* or any materials which would result in an individual committing criminal acts, which could mean anything
> 
> Beyond that, if major players such as Shounen Jump do not subscribe to the law's wording either in protest or erroniously, they would be subject to penalties, and maybe even hit with an M-18 rating. Considering that SJ(And shounen Sunday which would be hit harder due to things like Kenichi) is specifically targeted at 14-17 year olds..*well they're days could be numbered*



This is what has me most concerned, as the only manga I follow is shounen and the only anime I watch is war-oriented.

I guess at this point, all most of us can hope for is that SJ is safe at least until the Big 3 end in a couple of years. Or Japanese teenagers need to get used to the idea of buying 18+ mags for kids.


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## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

Is there any chance that this ban will not pass and will not happen?


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

well, wedsday is the final hurdle...if the general assembly vote nay on the bill, it'll go back for revision(ishihara will continue to bring it back until it passes)

but there's only a 1% chance it will not pass on wedsday and become official law, as all of the democrats are in full support, and they are the majority of the assembly.

If it becomes law, it'll go into effect in July..and...that will be it i suppose.


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## Nightwish (Dec 14, 2010)

I really wasn't taking this seriously yet, untill I saw this.



> Tokyo?s ban on sex in anime, manga and games is not even law yet, but already mangaka are reporting publishers refusing to publish works set in schools or featuring school uniforms, with previously published works even in danger of having their reprints cancelled.



Are they fucking serious


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

^ the parameters in the bill say that over glorification of sex or violence or means to commit a felony in any way is subject to penalty. This includes even the general allusion, even a school uniform, even a sword or a knife or a small patch of blood. Its not simply a matter of censoring, as you can't show ANYTHING that would appear in a shounen normally.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Cancel them Cancel Them all then burn them burn them all.... ahahahahahahahah

Then the state can put them perverts who read them dirty books and watch them trashy cartoons can be productiver digenerates of society at large...


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## Mintaka (Dec 14, 2010)

Well this is a completley stupid move.

Way to fuck things up for yourselves financially in a financial crisis.  Sounds like most of the things I watch are in trouble now....


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## Griever (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> well, wedsday is the final hurdle...if the general assembly vote nay on the bill, it'll go back for revision(ishihara will continue to bring it back until it passes)
> 
> but there's only a 1% chance it will not pass on wedsday and become official law, as all of the democrats are in full support, and they are the majority of the assembly.
> 
> If it becomes law, it'll go into effect in July..and...that will be it i suppose.



I guess all we can do is wait and hope it doesn't become law.... I'm gonna be seriously pissed if it does though .

P.S. either way Ishihara is officially on my shit-list


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Well guys look at the bright side now is the perfect time to go grab up volumes of your manga's you've been putting off getting for a while because you might not have a next time after this week.


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## Mintaka (Dec 14, 2010)

I dunno....I'd expect there to be quite a bitof outrage over this kind of a stunt.  Wouldn't there be enough of one to either stop this law or get it changed?


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## pikachuwei (Dec 14, 2010)

theres already been a petitio with 150,000 names, and basically all teh publishers are pissed off about it, but dem politicians be trolling


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Tokoyami things have spiralled out of control in Asia, Europe, and North America, admits the chaos' of unenployment Country wide reccesion/Depression all the crack pots amongst our elected officials are taking ampel advantage of the situation by having bills passes that carry reverse logic to them. I tell you its everyone for himself now..

So I'm 95% sure the nightmare will pass then true terror shall reign upon the community in 2011


----------



## Midaru (Dec 14, 2010)

I knew all this mess with new laws in Japan concerned only to Lolicon stuff, but now... 

I hope this isn't true (I don't care about Lolicon, but if they change everything else...)


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> theres already been a petitio with 150,000 names, and basically all teh publishers are pissed off about it, but dem politicians be trolling



apparently some publisher have something to do whit a boycutt (my english is not perfect i dont understand all the stuff...) and tite kubo expressed on his twiter that he support this



> Update 2: The Yomiuri Shimbun paper reports that the Tokyo Metropolitan Government plans to make a handbook to specifically describe what content would be restricted, as well as a pamphlet for the general public. [Via Dan Kanemitsu] Bleach manga creator Tite Kubo expressed on his Twitter account his support for the publishers' decision to boycott. [Via Kyō mo Yarareyaku]



source


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

back when it was called the 'nonexistant youth" bill, those were the days when people only had to be worried about blanket bans on loli pornography for all age groups  now its a ban on awesome manga  it seems like it got worse, i raised a stink then, but i would take gladly take that now that i see the alternative, but what i'd really like to do is 'get' Ishihara


----------



## solid-soul (Dec 14, 2010)

WERE one step closer to cathing all them pedos..........


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

Where is the link to bleach gonna get banned...


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

solid-soul said:


> WERE one step closer to cathing all them pedos..........well done japan



you dont understand
it will tuch almost all manga and anime, naruto,bleach,fairy tales,one piece, dragon ball... etc.....

even a girly romance show like kimini todoke is touched cause it have school uniform ? its ridiculous



Animeblue said:


> *
> 
> 
> Spoiler:
> ...


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

that thread got canned along with the yammi threads  probably cause this thread is here


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Kubo Tite announced that next week Bleach is it if the bill is passed.


----------



## solid-soul (Dec 14, 2010)

ichigeau said:


> you dont understand
> it will tuch almost all manga and anime, naruto,bleach,fairy tales,one piece, dragon ball... etc.....
> 
> even a girly romance show like kimini todoke is touched cause it have school uniform ? its ridiculous



 my bad them....i though it was just those loli stuff(whatever it called)


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Kubo Tite announced that next week Bleach is it if the bill is passed.



What do you mean? Can you edit your post?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Kubo just commented on the fact that he'd like his money train to continue as long as possible


----------



## Griever (Dec 14, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Kubo Tite announced that next week Bleach is it if the bill is passed.



could you give a link or something?


----------



## Kαrin (Dec 14, 2010)

Armpits said:


> Ban Naruto





Anyway, I don't care. I read/watch only Naruto anyway.


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Kubo just commented on the fact that he'd like his money train to continue as long as possible



Can you post the link here?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

^ I meant when he commented on "the wise decision" to boycott Tokyo Animation Festival  he's said nothing on the matter since then


----------



## kazuri (Dec 14, 2010)

> theres already been a petitio with 150,000 names



Petitions are basically useless.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

Kαrin said:


> Anyway, I don't care. I read/watch only Naruto anyway.



naruto is targeted too


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

The Japanese Prime Minister apparently disagrees. I dunno how much power he has but hopefully he can stop the ban from happening. 

“Another thing is the matter of Japan, the brand. Currently a great many people are raising concerns about the Tokyo International Anime Fair as it relates to the matter of youth welfare.
Raising children healthily is an important matter. But at the same time, transmitting Japanese anime to the world is also important.
I want to see the parties concerned endeavour to avoid causing the Tokyo International Anime Fair to be unable to be held in Tokyo.”


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Ishihara and the general assembly hold the power, the PM has no real power without the backing of his party, which are all solidly behind the bill and Ishihara


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

I am now googling this guy.  It's this guy, right? 

From what I am reading of the guy's views, he seems pretty crazy.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Bleach and Naruto never had any literary merit anyway I say ban them. Now series like The Twelve Kingdoms, & Berserk are literary and artistic books and should continue past this cluster fuck caused by that butt hurt prick Ishihara...


----------



## Griever (Dec 14, 2010)

Narutofann12 said:


> I am now googling this guy.  It's this guy, right?
> 
> From what I am reading of the guy's views, he seems pretty crazy.





			
				Wiki said:
			
		

> Ishihara said in a 2001 interview with women's magazine Shukan Josei that he believed "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," adding that he "couldn't say this as a politician." He was criticized in the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly for these comments, but responded that the criticism was driven by "tyrant" "old women."



This guy is a serious dick


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Narutofann12 said:


> I am now googling this guy.  It's this guy, right?
> 
> From what I am reading of the guy's views, he seems pretty crazy.



That's Ishihara alright  The guy's crazy for sure, it goes beyond taking down the anime industry in his mind  As a far righty in japan, what he's said in the past in his novels(which i have read) has been even more sickening.

Which is why i know he's serious about destroying what he finds unclean about the media industry


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

most hated guy in japan right now




Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Bleach and Naruto never had any literary merit anyway I say ban them. Now series like The Twelve Kingdoms, & Berserk are literary and artistic books and should continue past this cluster fuck caused by that butt hurt prick Ishihara...



i like berserk, im a fan but admit it, the scene when child guts get raped by the big old fart  f*88 this i wanted to puke after reading this... i dont want to see this its *&*** discusting...

and they want to ban naruto,bleach,one piece, dragonball etc...


----------



## Nightwish (Dec 14, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> That's Ishihara alright  The guy's crazy for sure, it goes beyond taking down the anime industry in his mind  As a far righty in japan, what he's said in the past in his novels(which i have read) has been even more sickening.
> 
> Which is why i know he's serious about destroying what he finds unclean about the media industry



He's racist on top of that as well. 

If you're not nationalistic enough, you're irreverent and shouldn't live.


----------



## Casyle (Dec 14, 2010)

solid-soul said:


> my bad them....i though it was just those loli stuff(whatever it called)



Holy cow, nevermind, he was serious... 

I've got to admit to being worried and sickened by this news, as I love Bleach and Naruto and I can't for the life of me see how either would warrant any kind of fine, let alone ban. I actually supported it when it was soley going after pedo and loli stuff, but this is beyond ridiculous. I doubt that bill could get any more vague or all-encompassing than it already is.


----------



## Mark Radaza (Dec 14, 2010)

Kαrin said:


> Anyway, I don't care. I read/watch only Naruto anyway.



Heck, if Doraemon is targeted, Naruto will be targeted too.


----------



## 王志鍵 (Dec 14, 2010)

Narutofann12 said:


> I am now googling this guy.  It's this guy, right?
> 
> From what I am reading of the guy's views, he seems pretty crazy.


This guy is a joke.


----------



## Spirit (Dec 14, 2010)

Kαrin said:


> Anyway, I don't care. I read/watch only Naruto anyway.



Do you know how vague the bill is? Do you know how big Tsunade's breasts are? Did you think ninjas spill milk when a kunai hit them? Do the math.

Anyways, when their economy plummet because of this, send a gift.

 
*Spoiler*: _For the last honorable thing you can do_ 





You bring great shame to Ishihara famiry. 




*Spoiler*: _AND TO MY ISHIHARA SATOMI!_


----------



## Kαrin (Dec 14, 2010)

Tokyo Jihen said:


> Do you know how vague the bill is? Do you know how big Tsunade's breasts are? Did you think ninjas spill milk when a kunai hit them? Do the math.



Christ, I didn't mean I would be upset if they banned Naruto, the manga has reached the bottom anyway. XD I meant it's not the end of the world to me, like to those who follow many shounen series. 

I'd really like to see them trying to ban all Shounen Jump mangas


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 14, 2010)

Ban Shounen Jump get a free meal at IHop


----------



## Adagio (Dec 14, 2010)

Nooooo  I've been reading Berserk for so long hoping that I would see the story end one day and now this shit happens? Not cool


----------



## Munak (Dec 14, 2010)

Tokyo Jihen said:


> Do you know how vague the bill is? Do you know how big Tsunade's breasts are? Did you think ninjas spill milk when a kunai hit them? Do the math.
> 
> Anyways, when their economy plummet because of this, send a gift.
> 
> ...



Wait, why a Naziswastika shuriken?


----------



## GodOfAzure (Dec 14, 2010)

Munak said:


> Wait, why a Naziswastika shuriken?



That's the sword hilt


----------



## decoy octopus (Dec 14, 2010)

whats gonna happen to berserk


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Seinen is fine  Its over 18


----------



## Shɑnɑ (Dec 14, 2010)

For real? 

And Japan is doing this? How could it possibly pass?


----------



## Sword Sage (Dec 14, 2010)

Shɑnɑ said:


> For real?
> 
> And Japan is doing this? How could it possibly pass?



Nah!

Its a bunch a bullshit.

U.S. Goverment once tried to ban the comic books but it didn't I don't see how Japan will ban anime/manga/games.

Its more like they are censoring and restricting Echii and H-Manga/anime/games for younger kids.


----------



## decoy octopus (Dec 14, 2010)

what about claymore?


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 14, 2010)

Matrix XZ said:


> Nah!
> 
> Its a bunch a bullshit.
> 
> ...



The US once succeeded in crippling comic books beyond recognition.

What they did was threaten the comic industry until a system called the Comics Code was instituted. It applied "moral" regulations to comic book content, preventing violence, drugs, crime, etc. etc.

Guess why mainstream japanese comics were more mature than american comics? Because japan had no such regulation... Now they do.


----------



## Sword Sage (Dec 14, 2010)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> The US once succeeded in crippling comic books beyond recognition.
> 
> What they did was threaten the comic industry until a system called the Comics Code was instituted. It applied "moral" regulations to comic book content, preventing violence, drugs, crime, etc. etc.
> 
> Guess why mainstream japanese comics were more mature than american comics? Because japan had no such regulation... Now they do.



Then why do we still have comic books now in Legal terms as well with some extreme violence such as Friday the 13th comic book series and Marvel Zombies?

Either way its all bullshit that Naruto,Bleach, One Piece is going to be banned and all the other action series from Shonen Jump is going to be banned. Its likely going to be restriction of Adult Manga's such as Berserk or Claymore under 18 or Hentai/Echii Manga's.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

^ claymore is a shonen
if naruto&all other stuff is targeted claymore is obviously in

they better not tuch my claymore


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

This is all considering of course that its possible to change a shounen series into a seinen so easily. Its not simply a matter of changing what section of the store the series is placed, the entire magazine shounen jump would have to change, as most of the series in the mag have 'objectionable content'


----------



## T.D.A (Dec 14, 2010)

it's really not a big deal.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 14, 2010)

Matrix XZ said:


> Then why do we still have comic books now in Legal terms as well with some extreme violence such as Friday the 13th comic book series and Marvel Zombies?
> 
> Either way its all bullshit that Naruto,Bleach, One Piece is going to be banned and all the other action series from Shonen Jump is going to be banned. Its likely going to be restriction of Adult Manga's such as Berserk or Claymore under 18 or Hentai/Echii Manga's.



Part of Marvel's origins lie in rebelling against the regulations that had crippled DC Comics for so long at the time.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 14, 2010)

Shɑnɑ said:


> For real?
> 
> And Japan is doing this? How could it possibly pass?



Tokyo is doing it, not Japan. The prefectures in Japan are run in a similar fassion to States in the US.

It's still pretty dumb though. This would be like Detroit banning the production of Cars whose target audience is speeders.


----------



## Sword Sage (Dec 14, 2010)

T.D.A said:


> it's really not a big deal.



Care to explain?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

if any other prefecture did it, it would be fine...but considering tokyo holds most of the animation industry as well as manga magazine offices, its effects would be felt everywhere

Its similar to Texas changing the schoolbooks to take out Thomas Jefferson..considering most school books are made in and shipped from texas, everywhere across the country would feel the effects


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 14, 2010)

> The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru, bishoujo titles such as Champion Red and most BL manga, *as well as any seinen manga with especially mature themes,* banned from general sales – presumably most will then be cancelled due to a lack of suitable magazine or tankobon distribution channels, with a few perhaps being resurrected as 18+ ero-manga.





To those saying they don't care because they only read mature manga for mature people such as themselves, your violent seinen mango are going to be among the first to be targeted.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

EEEHHHH!? i didn't hear about that!  well there goes that fucking alternative 

Or, y'know, the blog poster got his/her facts wrong  Last i heard it was to stop the sale and creation of objectionable materials to children such as shounen, but if its really for the ENTIRE industry..well..Ishihara went further than i thought he would


----------



## Miss Fortune (Dec 14, 2010)

What the fuck!!!!!


----------



## dream (Dec 14, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> To those saying they don't care because they only read mature manga for mature people such as themselves, your violent seinen mango are going to be among the first to be targeted.



Using a GameInformer blog.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 14, 2010)

Eternal Fail said:


> Using a GameInformer blog.



Would you prefer Shitkaku complex?


----------



## dream (Dec 14, 2010)

Not at all.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> > *The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru, bishoujo titles such as Champion Red and most BL manga, as well as any seinen manga with especially mature themes, banned from general sales – presumably most will then be cancelled due to a lack of suitable magazine or tankobon distribution channels, with a few perhaps being resurrected as 18+ ero-manga.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...






[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCiBpTWPjXQ&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
​


----------



## squilliam (Dec 14, 2010)

so pretty much..to avoid getting banned, you just change your rating to 18+?

Doesn't seem like it'll change too much...


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

squilliam said:


> so pretty much..to avoid getting banned, you just change your rating to 18+?
> 
> Doesn't seem like it'll change too much...



well... a guy posted this i dont remember his name...



> Q: This is only sexual stuff, right?
> A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
> 
> Q: Elaborate?
> ...




but wait..... jeez there is so much sh*&& i cant understand all....
will the shonen stuff will really get banned ?
can they just put a 18+ sticker on it and its ok ?
the quote from First Tsurugi  i posted up there said that seinen manga will also get targeted....

jeez i hate when its so vague like this


----------



## squilliam (Dec 14, 2010)

You don't even bother if you can't sell to minors?

Are minors really that big of a chunk of the market?


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

DremolitoX said:


> Meh. Who cares, I only read Naruto anyways.



that could get banned too

with the drawings of dicks, 12 year olds killing people and stuff, holding a lot of weapons as if it was 2nd nature, having naked men make out, having naked blond women make out, having a "father figure" trying to peep at women in bath houses all the time

thats horrible for the growth of children!! it will most likely get banned, too!!!
[im being sarcastic, i don't think its wrong. but that old guy will probably think so.]



wow but seriously that guy is such a hypocrite
have u seen jap vending machines? there's this one child/kid toy, its like a little green seaweed thing, and it has a huge ass boner. and the character is all smiling as if it where horny/giddy/awesome face or something! with a big ass boner! now tell me, they should fix stuff like that, first. >~> worry about manga once the babies learn to read.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 14, 2010)

squilliam said:


> You don't even bother if you can't sell to minors?
> 
> Are minors really that big of a chunk of the market?



Yes. They are immensely important.

If a show is made to target a particular audience, and that audience suddenly is prevented from watching that show then the show will fail.

How popular do you think My Little Pony would be if little girls weren't allowed to watch it?

Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, Hitman Reborn, One Piece... They're all shounen. If they lost their target demographic... Well... They would still be popular, but they would likely lose a huge chunk of their fanbase, and toy merchandising, which makes a LOT of money, would be totally ruined as well. Toys target children.

What is likely to happen is that shows will gradually self censor to avoid this regulation and that means they will all move towards safer territory. This means less fanservice, less violence and generally safer subjects.


----------



## ChocoKitty ♥ (Dec 14, 2010)

.


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

i think kubo would continue bleach even if it had to be put in the "adults only" or 18+ or whatever, because he said he writes BLEACH for the characters. not for himself or for money or for a plot/story. its the characters world. 
so i guess kubo would continue


----------



## squilliam (Dec 14, 2010)

yeah, on the flipside if certain mangas/animes decide to go 18+, they have potential to be 100x better.


----------



## makeoutparadise (Dec 14, 2010)

Guess that means Kishi can't draw his mafia manga now


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

squilliam said:


> yeah, on the flipside if certain mangas/animes decide to go 18+, they have potential to be 100x better.



i think that would be awesome. 

that is, if the author doesn't care about money/takes the risk and stuff.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

squilliam said:


> You don't even bother if you can't sell to minors?
> 
> Are minors really that big of a chunk of the market?


 

The shounen age group is typically 13-17 years of age.  This bill would make it illegal to sell to those age groups


----------



## Hinako (Dec 14, 2010)

Ahh Japan is finally getting around to becoming more civilized with proper manners and rules. Who would have thunk it?  This is a good thing, for too long Japan has been a country that borders on dark and 'sick in the head' primal instincts. It's time for the nation of Japan to progress with the other top nations in the world and have more class and order.


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

Hinako said:


> Ahh Japan is finally getting around to becoming more civilized with proper manners and rules. Who would have thunk it?  This is a good thing, for too long Japan has been a country that borders on dark and 'sick in the head' primal instincts. It's time for the nation of Japan to progress with the other top nations in the world and have more class and order.



...excuse me?


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Hinako..can't you be a troll somewhere else  For once, this is SERIOUS BUSINESS, there are plenty of Cheney threads for you to defend


----------



## Arachnia (Dec 14, 2010)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjpeo3VAvdw [/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Hinako (Dec 14, 2010)

Hinako said:


> Ahh Japan is finally getting around to becoming more civilized with proper manners and rules. Who would have thunk it?  This is a good thing, for too long Japan has been a country that borders on dark and 'sick in the head' primal instincts. It's time for the nation of Japan to progress with the other top nations in the world and have more class and order.





AznKuchikiChick said:


> ...excuse me?


Read above post, my dear.



Inuhanyou said:


> Hinako..can't you be a troll somewhere else  For once, this is SERIOUS BUSINESS, there are plenty of Cheney threads for you to defend


Those were my true thoughts, I think it will benefit Japan in the long run, hopefully they will do something soon for women and their molesters on subways. God knows that problem needs to be fixed. The *only* time I defend Cheney is when people called for his death when it is irrational and truly uncalled for.


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Dec 14, 2010)

AznKuchikiChick said:


> i think kubo would continue bleach even if it had to be put in the "adults only" or 18+ or whatever, because he said he writes BLEACH for the characters. not for himself or for money or for a plot/story. its the characters world.
> so i guess kubo would continue



Also, one of Shueisha's senior editors (IIRC, they're the company that puts out Shonen Jump) has said that they will continue to publish whatever they think is "exciting to read", and called on new mangaka to create manga that would "blow away" the guy who came up with this idiocy.


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

Akatsuki210 said:


> Also, one of Shueisha's senior editors (IIRC, they're the company that puts out Shonen Jump) has said that they will continue to publish whatever they think is "exciting to read", and called on new mangaka to create manga that would "blow away" the guy who came up with this idiocy.



wow, that's amazing. i love how they're uniting to fight this and stuff. i hope all the mangaka against this step up their game, create literary manga epics.

i hope that with this bill[which i hope gets canceled or something or whatever veto], it helps manga become stronger. to be honest, i dislike a lot of manga. but some i know is really great. even if i don't like it personally, i know its good quality written from The Heart. so i hope that, with this shortcoming, it will only help manga grow and become great, and be worthy of recognition as an art/literature across the world.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

If they ignore the bill they'll get subject to legal action, its that simple  the opposition won't last


----------



## pikachuwei (Dec 14, 2010)

the only good thing that may come out of this is that we can get less moeblob/pure fanservice anime/manga


----------



## Milkshake (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm not sure I'm getting wtf this means


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Milkshake said:


> I'm not sure I'm getting wtf this means



Basically...if the bill passes tommorow, as of July first, it will be illegal to sell any kind of manga or anime with 'objectionable content' to children below 18 years in Tokyo. Moreover, if any manga author or anime company makes anime or manga with objectionable content within the parameters of the bill(any allusions to violence, sexual content, or means to commit a criminal act), they will be hit with legal action and the series henceforth banned from sale or publication 

This applies to current series as well as future projects.


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> the only good thing that may come out of this is that we can get less moeblob/pure fanservice anime/manga



omgod yes. i hate that shit. its the reason i hate manga/anime cuz for some reason most of it iv seen is always like that! T___T


----------



## 王志鍵 (Dec 14, 2010)

It's already 11:14 Wednesday in Japan, shit... I hope they dispose of this crap quickly and efficiently.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Whenever people bring up 'well atleast there'll be less moeblob lololol" i die a little bit inside, this is not what that means, what it means is that it'll be 4kids in japan, everyday. Oh, and wholesale banning across the spectrum 

Ironically, the doujin and porn will stay because they're 18+ already  only the good shit will be destroyed


----------



## scerpers (Dec 14, 2010)

and nothing of value was lost


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

This shit is like a nightmare you can't wake up from.......


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

this will ruin the manga culture..won't it?

why are they trying to ban stuff from teenagers, if they already know about this shit? >__> its not a big shock. maybe a little 7 year old.. but come on now. that's just messed up. stupid oldfag politician.

its taking away the right to express themselves.. to be censored and stuff.. i hate it!


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

Ishihara never thought straight in the first place


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

^^Sums up 95% of NF feelings....


----------



## Glued (Dec 14, 2010)

This sort of thing once happened in comics. The Golden Age Superman let criminals die slow and horribly at times. Horror and war themes were considered to be a cause for juvenile delinquency. Things got toned down, censorship went up.

What happened resulted in the Silver Age.

Lots and lots of crazy stupid shit happened during the Silver Age. Lots of bad writing. Some of it so bad, it makes you facepalm.

Japan is about to head into an era of stupid, THE SILVER AGE!


----------



## DemonDragonJ (Dec 14, 2010)

I am extremely disturbed by this turn of events; freedom of speech and expression is being restricted, which is a certain sign of tyranny and dictatorship developing. I support the idea of complete and unrestricted freedom of speech and the press, and wish that I could oppose this.

As I am not a citizen of Japan, I doubt that I can influence this law, but in the rare chance that I can, what does everyone else here know about it?



pikachuwei said:


> the only good thing that may come out of this is that we can get less moeblob/pure fanservice anime/manga



That actually is very bad, because freedom of speech is being restricted; the fact that you do not like _moe_ or fanservice anime and manga does not allow you to prevent other people from enjoying it. If you have ever read _1984_ by George Orwell, or even history books, you would know that restricting freedom of speech is one of the first steps that a government takes to achieve totalitarian rule over the people. I believe that every government in the entire world should have their own version of the first amendment of the Untied States' Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion, speech, the press, and the right to assemble peacefully.

I sincerely hope that this does not affect any  of the ongoing manga or anime series that I currently am following _(Bleach, Naruto, One Piece,_ and _Kiss X Sis),_ but if it does, I suppose that I shall simply need to tolerate it.

What a sad day for democracy and freedom of speech this is... 

*EDIT:* I found this image here, which I believe is extremely relevant to this subject.What Calvin is saying there can easily be applied to this situation: while the media can influence the attitudes and opinions of people, it cannot _cause_ behavior; it can only affect its likelihood of occurring.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 14, 2010)

I'm not a libertarian or 'constitution junkie' by any means, but there are lines that shouldn't be crossed for the good of society 

Ishihara's a radical though so it shouldn't be surprising that he introduced the bill, i'm not even surprised that the democrats supported him but it doesn't make me any less pissed, old people deciding things that they have no idea of really strikes a cord with me 

I didn't support this bill when it was the called the nonexistant youth bill, but i'd take that bill over this one


----------



## Chibason (Dec 14, 2010)

This is very disturbing. I'm in denial.....but yeah, I think the Manga industry will flip it and make it work.


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

DemonDragonJ said:


> I am extremely disturbed by this turn of events; freedom of speech and expression is being restricted, which is a certain sign of tyranny and dictatorship developing. I support the idea of complete and unrestricted freedom of speech and the press, and wish that I could oppose this.
> 
> As I am not a citizen of Japan, I doubt that I can influence this law, but in the rare chance that I can, what does everyone else here know about it?
> 
> ...



Holy shit for once I can actually agree with you good post..


----------



## Shasta McNasty (Dec 14, 2010)

First they came for anime.  Then they came for all cartoons. then they came to burn the books.  Then they silenced dissent.  Then they will come for you and your family.


----------



## Xion (Dec 14, 2010)

Given this law is aimed at protecting all the children, there is only one course of action...

...murder all the children!


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

^^..


----------



## vegitabo (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't see what Japan gains from this. This is like banning weed, people are still gonna smoke it, but there is no longer any tax revenue. People and their crazy moral. I hate when states run with this morality crap, it just screws things up and nothing gets done.


----------



## Xion (Dec 14, 2010)

Government's new role governing what people should read, watch, and smoke I am not liking. For most sensible and logical people, this is not the role of government; it is the role of fascists!


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

^^  I AGREE!


i trust japan to work it all out... but something like this.. damn why can't the world have the US's 1st amendment


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 14, 2010)

They are not doing it because they gain something, if you read about the person behind this, you will understand that he does it because he is crazy.


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

Only good thing that came out of this is making me read my first Korean manga called *The Breaker* and boy It IS FUCKING AWESOME!!


----------



## Shasta McNasty (Dec 14, 2010)

Xion said:


> Government's new role governing what people should read, watch, and smoke I am not liking. For most sensible and logical people, this is not the role of government; it is the role of fascists!



"social democrats" are the tyrants of the 21st century.


----------



## A. Waltz (Dec 14, 2010)

Gino said:


> Only good thing that came out of this is making me read my first Korean manga called *The Breaker* and boy It IS FUCKING AWESOME!!



korean           manga?


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

^^It's actually called manhwa I just call it k manga lol.........


----------



## Xion (Dec 14, 2010)

The sad fact of the matter concerning Japan is that I don't suspect this law will be overturned.

You think the U.S. is bad? We are. We suck. Without hyperbole we are pretty much chock full of moral fascists that hold the rest of free society back and seem to think that an Elizabethan sense of moral duty is apt not just here but elsewhere where we can spread our hegemonic tendrils as well.

But Japan is actually worse in terms of activism. Yes they seem to be crazy and more "free" to those in the West, but Japan is still an extremely traditional, xenophobic, homogeneous, and high power distance state. The people will accept this; the youth might not, but that won't likely take anything very far.



Shasta McNasty said:


> "social democrats" are the tyrants of the 21st century.



Ideological blinds only dampen your comprehension of the real world flowing around you.


----------



## Vanthebaron (Dec 14, 2010)

> Tokyo?s ban on anime, manga and games featuring ?virtual crimes? or which are ?likely to interfere with the healthy development of youth? has passed after the DPJ agreed to support it.


the Americn psychological association calls bullshit.


----------



## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 14, 2010)

Xion said:


> The sad fact of the matter concerning Japan is that I don't suspect this law will be overturned.
> 
> You think the U.S. is bad? We are. We suck. Without hyperbole we are pretty much chock full of moral fascists that hold the rest of free society back and seem to think that an Elizabethan sense of moral duty is apt not just here but elsewhere where we can spread our hegemonic tendrils as well.
> 
> But Japan is actually worse in terms of activism. Yes they seem to be crazy and more "free" to those in the West, but Japan is still an extremely traditional, xenophobic, homogeneous, and high power distance state. The people will accept this; the youth might not, but that won't likely take anything very far.



This is related to the non-fallacy element of the slippery slope argument.

Assume that we have something that is seen as a "problem" by a lot of people. These people will not actively do anything about the "problem" because they don't really care, but suddenly someone proposes to deal with it and they agree.

Once the "problem" has been dealt with, only those who had anything to do with that will now be affected, while everyone else can safely ignore what just happened. Now, however, the minority will have to gather majority support, which is going to be nearly impossible because no one cares enough about the issue to actually agree.

It's a way to sacrifice an impopular minority. The only way to undo what has happened is to change the attitude around the issue in the eyes of the majority, and we'll see how well that goes.


----------



## Gino (Dec 14, 2010)

Does anybody else fell like you're facing a final boss on a video game with a time limit that's ticking away It should already be wednesday in japan amirite...


----------



## Sennin of Hardwork (Dec 14, 2010)

That new bill stinks. 

A couple of years ago (2007 I think) there was the writers's strike. I wonder if the mangakas do the same thing maybe something good will come out of it to prevent this?



Arachnia said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjpeo3VAvdw [/YOUTUBE]



Summed up my thoughts very well.


----------



## Red (Dec 14, 2010)

Goddamn, sabotaging an entire industry when you're in a recession? Oh Japanese politicians, you never fail to amaze me at your incompetence.

What are they trying to accomplish here?


----------



## Stripes (Dec 14, 2010)

There will always be porn so what the hell do they think? Getting rid of ero manga is gonna kick the bad habit of fapping to fictional characters; they're probably making a black market as we speak.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 14, 2010)

MuseStripes said:


> There will always be porn so what the hell do they think? Getting rid of ero manga is gonna kick the bad habit of fapping to fictional characters; they're probably making a black market as we speak.



its not just about sexual relating stuff
its all manga and anime.


its absolutely ridiculous, the only good thing in this pic is that the redline movie is still there...

kimi ni todoke targeted ? a girly shojo ? for what ? it have school uniform ? 

sure, kids can see porn on tv at night or just go on the internet.
but then a girl want to read a shojo 


and then *hey kid its banned* sure... dont blame the parent that dosent watch what their kids buy and then make a generalised ban for everything and penalise all the people in the world that are fan of anime and manga... sure...


and me who hate politics, what do you think i think about polititcians now


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> It's a way to sacrifice an impopular minority. The only way to undo what has happened is to change the attitude around the issue in the eyes of the majority, and we'll see how well that goes.



The "majority" is hardly apt to make intelligent and sensible decisions, that's why we have republics. And even then, as can be seen here, it doesn't go so well.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> Yes. They are immensely important.
> 
> If a show is made to target a particular audience, and that audience suddenly is prevented from watching that show then the show will fail.
> 
> ...



So they'll eventually be basically taking the war and good-guy-vs-bad-guy concept out of shounen manga.

What would the point even be anymore?

Yes, they can take out the cleavage and panty-shots and suggestive jokes, and it won't ultimately have much of an effect on the reader base (as it doesn't affect plot and there is always doujinshi). But taking out the violence? That's moving into plot territory. You can't have a war without violence, and most of the major shounen series out there, such as the ones you listed and anything mecha, involve war.

Fuck that shit. If the ending of the series I follow is going to be altered to be 'safe', I'm going to rage.

I hope that, if the hammer falls and all of this does come to pass, and if the shounen authors are forced to censor their own work, they'll publish an 18+ appendix telling us what the original plans for the ending were.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> I hope that, if the hammer falls and all of this does come to pass



its already passed...
take place in july 2011....


im still waiting to know if shonen publisher can just put a 18+ sticker and there we go. i mean video game do that and they still sell tons of game.

but then i read seinen manga too.....


> The most immediate and direct effect of the law will almost certainly be to see ecchi manga such as To Love-Ru, bishoujo titles such as Champion Red and most BL manga, as well as any seinen manga with especially mature themes, banned from general sales – presumably most will then be cancelled due to a lack of suitable magazine or tankobon distribution channels, with a few perhaps being resurrected as 18+ ero-manga.


source


wtf is this bullsh1Y ?


----------



## PerveeSage (Dec 15, 2010)

Couple days ago, I Posted  in the "Tokyo Anime/Manga ban passed " thread. It is a well known and documented fact that feminists have laid siege to Japanese media of all kinds for female rape themes, and so stated simply that these documented feminist actions are logically to blame for the new ban that was passed.

I got negged by Jello Biafra with a message that said "CRY SOME MOAR!" Obviously she can't tell the difference between crying and a suggestion of who is at fault.

Anyway, I negged her back, with a message "Wah I can't take what I give." Implying that as soon as Jello saw my revenge neg, she was gonna go cry to her other mods and do something about it, the way any feminist will cry to get her way. And ya know what? I was right.


Got this message today;


			
				Jello Biafra said:
			
		

> Dear PerveeSage,
> 
> You have received an infraction at Naruto Forums.
> 
> ...



In form true to a feminist, she went and cried to mods to give me an infraction, which I guess is a permanent neg. 

Now the first count I will take, because I know it was against the rules. But it was also about proving a point. Jello can't take what she gives, and she is a biased feminist who goes and cries when she gets back what she gives. The proof is in the infraction, and seeing her reaction to her own sexism is satisfaction enough.

The second count is simply an obvious display of feminist bias, as I was not "flamebaiting". I have a well thought out explanation for my post with facts and documentation to back it all up, and if I was asked, I would have been happy to provide it all. 

Instead, I was ignorantly denounced as a "flamebaiter" so she would have a reason to give me another infraction.

The point of this post is, like the great Edward Murrow (and for those of you who approve of Julian Assange) to use the NF media to keep the NF "government" honest, by exposing the truth.

The truth that NF is run by sexist, biased totalitarian moderators who run this forum with their damaged egos and not the rulebook they so publicly solicit.


I will likely get banned for exposing this truth, alike Julian, but fear not free peoples of the NF, there will always be more lan cafes, IP adresses, and emails from which to make more NF accounts. Whatever happens, never be afraid to keep your government honest.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

^haha sucks to be you.  I'll miss you when you're banned

EDIT: I just realized how long it must've taken to type all of that out, it does sound like BAAAAWWWing at this point.


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## PerveeSage (Dec 15, 2010)

no you wont, ill just be some other guy you never really talked to.


----------



## psycheofthewoods (Dec 15, 2010)

This really sucks


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

you sound like how ishihara is to females pervee, not very flattering


----------



## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> no you wont, ill just be some other guy you never really talked to.



I've talked to you before, and your thread got trashed.  You're on the radar now.

Also it's been passed now guys.


----------



## scerpers (Dec 15, 2010)

dry until they hit the swimming pool.


----------



## Griever (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I've talked to you before, and your thread got trashed.  You're on the radar now.
> 
> Also it's been passed now guys.



Your fuckin' kidding me this moronic thing actually got passed  what the hell man?... good god  how in the hell?, why would any sane person vote for such a crippling bill to be passed?....

Dementia?...


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> Couple days ago, I Posted  in the "Tokyo Anime/Manga ban passed " thread. It is a well known and documented fact that feminists have laid siege to Japanese media of all kinds for female rape themes, and so stated simply that these documented feminist actions are logically to blame for the new ban that was passed.
> 
> I got negged by Jello Biafra with a message that said "CRY SOME MOAR!" Obviously she can't tell the difference between crying and a suggestion of who is at fault.
> 
> ...



In case you haven't figured it out yet, Jello is actually a forum troll who by some miracle was made a moderator at the Cafe some years ago. 

I wouldn't worry too much about it though. She can't do anything to you.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Blame feminists? Blame the sickos who made media with "female rape themes" in the first place.


----------



## Dokiz1 (Dec 15, 2010)




----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Blame feminists? Blame the sickos who make hentai with female rape themes in the first place.



This law actually dosn't touch Hentai at all.

It actually goes after every other kind of Manga or anime out there that it deems is not worthy for children to be viewing and deems it all Adult Only.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> Couple days ago, I Posted  in the "Tokyo Anime/Manga ban passed " thread. It is a well known and documented fact that feminists have laid siege to Japanese media of all kinds for female rape themes, and so stated simply that these documented feminist actions are logically to blame for the new ban that was passed.
> 
> I got negged by Jello Biafra with a message that said "CRY SOME MOAR!" Obviously she can't tell the difference between crying and a suggestion of who is at fault.
> 
> ...



You broke a rule genius. You're not allowed to revenge neg. Don't whine in here just because you didn't like that you broke a rule _at one of the staff_ and she reported you...that's what supposed to happen.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

PerveeSage said:


> It is a well known and documented fact that feminists have laid siege to Japanese media of all kinds for female rape themes, and so stated simply that these documented feminist actions are logically to blame for the new ban that was passed.



Funny how the guy behind the bill seems to be suspiciously chauvinistic. Isn't he the one who said that unless a woman could bear children, she was useless? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.


This article actually seems to imply that the bill is specifically targetting fanservice, with the violence being secondary. 

But oh goodie. They're taking artistic merit into account.  Does anyone else find that sickeningly comical?


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

It sounds like some people are butthurt.

Can't deal with feminists acting like your equal? Then man the fuck up and get over it.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> In case you haven't figured it out yet, Jello is actually a forum troll who by some miracle was made a moderator at the Cafe some years ago.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about it though. She can't do anything to you.



I still believe Jello is a gender troll like myself. 



PoisonIvy said:


> Blame feminists? Blame the sickos who made media with "female rape themes" in the first place.



Free speech in a free society!? Say it ain't so!?

Despicable theme? Yes it is. But banning freedom of expression leads to shit like this law being passed. How about we as a society just not buy stuff that bothers us and not try to ban everything that offends our sensibilities?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> Despicable theme? Yes it is. But banning freedom of expression leads to shit like this law being passed. How about we as a society just not buy stuff that bothers us and not try to ban everything that offends our sensibilities?


This law doesn't effect Hentai!


----------



## Bender (Dec 15, 2010)

Until they target Berserk I'll give a darn

Until then

ZZZZZZ


Also If I recall they pulled this bullshit a year ago and nothing has yet to come of it

Just more talking

On another note I can't help but think this law was made to get brownie points with the retard squad in our country. I.E. The Republican party


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This law doesn't effect Hentai!



Which is exactly a great point! It affects everything else that is much less "morally despicable" and makes it economically ineffective to pursue.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

Nothing is banned. It just keeps people under 18 from buying certain things. *yawn*


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You broke a rule genius. You're not allowed to revenge neg. Don't whine in here just because you didn't like that you broke a rule _at one of the staff_ and she reported you...that's what supposed to happen.





Jello Biafra said:


> It sounds like some people are butthurt.
> 
> Can't deal with feminists acting like your equal? Then man the fuck up and get over it.



Oh wait, who was the person who got either an S-mod or an Admin to rep-lock the guy?

Oh wait! you were.

Who was the person who decided to start this little childish exchange in the first place.

Oh wait, that you too!

Who was it who decided to involve the someone else to instill punishment rather than handle the situation like a responsible adult.

That was also you!

You may call yourself a feminist, but a true feminist doesn't hide behind the skirts of those higher then them and depend on their protection to "punish" people for being "mean to you". 

I know Feminist Jello. You are no feminist. You are a spoiled brat who likes to stir up trouble and get others to fix it for you.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> Nothing is banned. It just keeps people under 18 from buying certain things. *yawn*


Then I gave even less of a fuck than before, heh, who knew?



strongarm85 said:


> Oh wait, who was the person who got either an S-mod or an Admin to rep-lock the guy?
> 
> Oh wait! you were.
> 
> ...



So you're saying that she started it, but that other guy painted all Feminists with the same brush, that sounds like starting it to me. 

This place is really inhospitable to women and its kind of getting sad. Threads about women being raped meet all kinds of animosity for the thread being too common while ones about women lying about rape look like the proceedings from a fucking witch trial. 

You can fault the staff for a lot, but he deserved that neg for his stupid blanket statement.


----------



## Bender (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Oh wait, who was the person who got either an S-mod or an Admin to rep-lock the guy?
> 
> Oh wait! you were.
> 
> ...



...Please ban him 

please?

He won't be missed.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> This law doesn't effect Hentai!



Nope.

Just shit like bad guys getting killed and harmless cleavage.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> Nothing is banned. It just keeps people under 18 from buying certain things. *yawn*



And you're fine with the loss that could result? Cultural loss of manga/anime that we might actually like around here and of the future ability for such manga/anime to be economically viable in Japan?

Jello, I am disappoint...


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> Nothing is banned. It just keeps people under 18 from buying certain things. *yawn*



i dont mind if they just put a 18+ sticker on it
but ban anime and manga ? thats simply ridiculous

but its so vague you cant even tell...


----------



## scerpers (Dec 15, 2010)

Bender said:


> ...Please ban him
> 
> please?
> 
> He won't be missed.



No don't. 
I like him.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Keep in mind that just because something isn't explicitly banned doesn't make that much of a difference.

Making it not viable to produce hurts the industry and a lot of fans' interest just the same. In addition to the whole freedom of expression thing that everyone should support.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Oh wait, who was the person who got either an S-mod or an Admin to rep-lock the guy?
> 
> Oh wait! you were.
> 
> ...


First of all, I didn't do anything at all to him. I gave a person dumb enough to break the rules at a mod a warning. Had I wanted to repban him, I would have. I gave him a warning to stop his behavior, which is more fair than I should have been.

I negged a childish little kid who posts "blame feminists" in a thread and expects it count for rational discussion. He breaks the rules, I warn him. When he goes and whines about me daring to actually enforce the rules around here, I call him on his bullshit.

And now I'm calling you on yours too. You really are pathetic. Your little vendetta against me is almost comical. Your interpretation of this is more than proof of that. So either go back to kindergarden, or grow the fuck up.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> And you're fine with the loss that could result? Cultural loss of manga/anime that we might actually like around here and of the future ability for such manga/anime to be economically viable in Japan?
> 
> Jello, I am disappoint...



Eh, according to Hoshino Rika Japan's economy comes from business, fishing, and tourism not anime/manga, which barely makes a dent.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Then I gave even less of a fuck than before, heh, who knew?



What Jello just said is not true in the slightest. What the bill does it allows the Tokyo Governemnt to decide what it appropriate for children to read. Anything that it considers to not be appropriate to for children is then reclassified as an Adult Only Manga, essentially no different then Hentai. The publishers then, at their own expense, have to recall their product and then re-distribute them as adult only material.

The worst part of the law it allows the Tokyo Government too much freedom in determining what material is appropriate and what material is innappropriate. A month from now something as benign as Naruto could be classified as an Adult Only series which would lead to the Anime being immediately canceled and Shounen Jump reclassified as an Adult Manga.

Furthermore any series in Jump could have the whole book reclassified as Adult Only.

The reality is, what the Tokyo government has managed to do is given themselves the authority to reclassify any Manga or Anime that it wants as an Adult series, which effectively bans a lot of titles from the Mass Market, without actually calling it a "ban".


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> And you're fine with the loss that could result? Cultural loss of manga/anime that we might actually like around here and of the future ability for such manga/anime to be economically viable in Japan?
> 
> Jello, I am disappoint...



No, I really don't care. There are things far more important that are going wrong far closer to home than a law in Tokyo restricting the sale of adult themed anime and manga to minors. Forgive me if I choose to care about those things more.


----------



## Bender (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Eh, according to Hoshino Rika Japan's economy comes from business, fishing, and tourism not anime/manga, which barely makes a dent.



I find that highly unlikely 

Where's your source behind this claim?

Anime/manga is pretty much in the top 5  things Japan is notable for.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Eh, according to Hoshino Rika Japan's economy comes from business, fishing, and tourism not anime/manga, which barely makes a dent.



Mider, I have my doubts about you. 

It seems you are awfully on the anti-freedoms, pro-ignorance side of the equation recently which makes me sadface inside or something.

But I clearly said *the industry* as in the MANGA/ANIME INDUSTRY. So reading comprehension FTL. Not to mention the whole freedom of expression angle, which is actually fairly important in the concept of freedom of thought and mind and being human and all that stuff of minor importance to most of the world.

If you're going to disagree with me in the future, please make sure it's a valid point my yellow and mushy friend.



Jello Biafra said:


> No, I really don't care. There are things far more important that are going wrong far closer to home than a law in Tokyo restricting the sale of adult themed anime and manga to minors. Forgive me if I choose to care about those things more.



It has wider implications. That's a narrow analysis at best. Maybe you are right, maybe it won't have them, but if it does then it is something worth considering.

The "closer to home worries" argument is, dare I say, a rather naive and simplistic viewpoint on the matter.

I understand why you might approach this issue the way you do, but I don't think it's a logically valid way of approaching it.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> ... a law in Tokyo restricting the sale of adult themed anime and manga to minors. Forgive me if I choose to care about those things more.



It's got little to do with adult-themed anime and manga.

It's banning certain material that currently exists in under-18 manga and anime. Artists can now either tone down their work to something acceptable for a 5-year-old or they can slap an 18+ label on it, which will cripple both popularity and sales. 

The authors have to decide between destroying their work and (older) fanbase, or destroying their income and (younger) fanbase. 

If Shueisha makes SJ 18+, it's going to severely damage their sales and may eventually drive them out of business. They rebel now, but publishers may eventually be forced to turn down work that could get them in trouble, making it harder for artists, who in turn will tone down their work just to get published.

Everything from Nami's boobs to Minato's Rasengan can get axed now, from what I understand. This bill has the potential to completely destroy the industry both inside and outside of Japan. I know America sure as hell won't buy shit unless it has fanservice or violence, and I would think most other countries won't either.


----------



## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

Hey I'm just passing on from what heard from a so-called "bonafide authentic Japanese who's dad grew up watching anime"

Don't kill the messenger.  She's in the Society Library's version of this thread


----------



## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

So the law passed huh.....

It begins...


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> What Jello just said is not true in the slightest. What the bill does it allows the Tokyo Governemnt to decide what it appropriate for children to read. Anything that it considers to not be appropriate to for children is then reclassified as an Adult Only Manga, essentially no different then Hentai. The publishers then, at their own expense, have to recall their product and then re-distribute them as adult only material.
> 
> The worst part of the law it allows the Tokyo Government too much freedom in determining what material is appropriate and what material is innappropriate. A month from now something as benign as Naruto could be classified as an Adult Only series which would lead to the Anime being immediately canceled and Shounen Jump reclassified as an Adult Manga.
> 
> ...



No, it doesn't give the Tokyo city government any discretionary authority at all. 



> The Tokyo Metropolitan Government submitted a revised bill to amend the Youth Healthy Development Ordinance at the end of last month. The current ordinance already prevents the sale and renting of "harmful publications" ? materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" ? to people under the age of 18. The proposed Bill 156 would require the industry to also self-regulate the sale and renting of "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts. Another section of the revised bill would allow the government to directly restrict the sale and renting of the above images if the depicted acts are also "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order" such as rape.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> What Jello just said is not true in the slightest. What the bill does it allows the Tokyo Governemnt to decide what it appropriate for children to read. Anything that it considers to not be appropriate to for children is then reclassified as an Adult Only Manga, essentially no different then Hentai. The publishers then, at their own expense, have to recall their product and then re-distribute them as adult only material.
> 
> The worst part of the law it allows the Tokyo Government too much freedom in determining what material is appropriate and what material is innappropriate. A month from now something as benign as Naruto could be classified as an Adult Only series which would lead to the Anime being immediately canceled and Shounen Jump reclassified as an Adult Manga.
> 
> ...



As long as they keep printing it and selling it somewhere...this won't effect fan subs and manga scans...


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> As long as they keep printing it and selling it somewhere...this won't effect fan subs and manga scans...



After a while, when authors and publishers can't make a profit because the law forces all their works not catered to five year olds into obscurity, they just won't bother making them in the first place.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> After a while, when authors and publishers can't make a profit because the law forces all their works not catered to five year olds into obscurity, they just won't bother making them in the first place.



It's nice when someone actually understands something.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> First of all, I didn't do anything at all to him. I gave a person dumb enough to break the rules at a mod a warning. Had I wanted to repban him, I would have. I gave him a warning to stop his behavior, which is more fair than I should have been.
> 
> I negged a childish little kid who posts "blame feminists" in a thread and expects it count for rational discussion. He breaks the rules, I warn him. When he goes and whines about me daring to actually enforce the rules around here, I call him on his bullshit.
> 
> And now I'm calling you on yours too. You really are pathetic. Your little vendetta against me is almost comical. Your interpretation of this is more than proof of that. So either go back to kindergarden, or grow the fuck up.



Jello, the fact that you even felt a need to stir this up in the first place, and by your own admission you did. Speaks volumes to your immaturity. You neg rep people with snide comments who say something you object to with the intention of starting fights. Then when people do fight with you, you simply 'enforce' the rules and avoid having them enforced on yourself. Its part of a childish game of yours that frankly needs to come to an end.

Of course the easiest way to deal with it to simply accept the fact that your a forum troll who pretends to be interested in having an intellectual conversation.

Was the guy an idiot. You bet. But you didn't need to neg rep him with a few unkind words and goad him into neg repping you back for your rude comments. 

Think about what you actually accomplished with the neg rep.

What you actually accomplished was no different then poke the guy in the eye with an internet-stick, make an ugly face, and call him stupid.

When I look back at all the great philosophers in human history, I fail to come up with a single one who would stoop down to your level. That is outside of the Sophist. Which is who you most remind me of.


----------



## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

AHHHHHHh shut up so..... so go argue somewhere else.........

































 seriously let's stay on topic this shit is serious biznezz


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> After a while, when authors and publishers can't make a profit because the law forces all their works not catered to five year olds into obscurity, they just won't bother making them in the first place.



Eh, I don't care...I just want to see Evangelion. All anime could vanish at this point and it wouldn't effect me. 



strongarm85 said:


> Jello, the fact that you even felt a need to stir this up in the first place, and by your own admission you did. Speaks volumes to your immaturity. You neg rep people with snide comments who say something you object to with the intention of starting fights. Then when people do fight with you, you simply 'enforce' the rules and avoid having them enforced on yourself. Its part of a childish game of yours that frankly needs to come to an end.
> 
> Of course the easiest way to deal with it to simply accept the fact that your a forum troll who pretends to be interested in having an intellectual conversation.
> 
> ...


People neg rep over AVATARS sometimes, neg repping over a stupid comment like that is what the system's for.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

^ man.... you really get frustrated over the internet only because of a green bar in a forum ? jesus christ...... i will shut up cause i dont want to be rude but just leave this thread alone please...

i got some neg sometime, who care ? ignore them its just a fucking bar 




Gino said:


> seriously let's stay on topic this shit is serious biznezz



true, the smiley or your siggy really express the impression i have


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

It makes sense this is passing...a lot of anime/manga have questionable content that makes you think "This is suppose to be for kids ?"  It's why many get heavily edited when they come to America.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, I don't care...I just want to see Evangelion. All anime could vanish at this point and it wouldn't effect me.



Surely that's a selfish way to look at it though. 

And yeah, Evangelion would be struck down instantly if this were in place. It would not be spared the censors' wrath!


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> Nothing is banned. It just keeps people under 18 from buying certain things. *yawn*



Is this intentional ignorance? Nothing is banned, but you can't act like it doesn't open the door to some heavily detrimental regulation at least.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, I don't care...I just want to see Evangelion. All anime could vanish at this point and it wouldn't effect me.



That's like saying you don't care about warrant-less wiretapping because you have nothing to hide.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, I don't care...I just want to see Evangelion. All anime could vanish at this point and it wouldn't effect me.
> 
> 
> People neg rep over AVATARS sometimes, neg repping over a stupid comment like that is what the system's for.



Neg repping someone with a rude comments is also a punishable offense on this forum. A Punishment that Jello has avoided having enforced on her for sometime. 

If you had any sense of justice you wouldn't think that Jello is above the same forum rules she would impose of everyone else. Would you?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> Surely that's a selfish way to look at it though.
> 
> And yeah, Evangelion would be struck down instantly if this were in place. It would not be spared the censors' wrath!



Not really, because its a movie and its already rated for adults. 



First Tsurugi said:


> That's like saying you don't care about warrant-less wiretapping because you have nothing to hide.



Oh yeah, that's the same thing. You guys take anime far too seriously.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

^ Evangelion is a series and a manga, and it just happens to be sold to minors as it stands now 


And....it passed, as expected 

 And shounen goes down the drain 

Maybe seinen can hold on, but its a shame that that's not a certainty


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not really, because its a movie and its already rated for adults.



Well the movie's even worse.

But there was an anime series before it...


----------



## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> It makes sense this is passing...a lot of anime/manga have parts that make you think "This is suppose to be for kids ?"  It's why many get heavily edited when they come to America.



Indeed
Original
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGmlfwDzrpg[/YOUTUBE]

U.S version
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhb5NGwAPI[/YOUTUBE] 
My country sucks..


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, I don't care...I just want to see Evangelion. All anime could vanish at this point and it wouldn't effect me.



Is Evangelion rated 18+? I didn't think the anime series was...

Because if it isn't, maybe you should care. It's got violence and boobies.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Not really, because its a movie and its already rated for adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that's the same thing. You guys take anime far too seriously.



Evangelion...is a shonen series...


----------



## Tkae (Dec 15, 2010)

This is the sound of Japan being overtaken by China.

EDIT: Any chances they had at resisting it before were completely undone by this destruction of their largest and most important export. 

I think I'm with a lot of people when I say, 

*Fuck you, Japan!*


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

lol Pretty selfish nature I'm seeing here "It doesn't affect me so I don't care".  Like I said before, the bill's wording is slippery slope so if it one day interferes with your interests, no whining.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

strongarm85 said:


> Neg repping someone with a rude comments is also a punishable offense on this forum. A Punishment that Jello has avoided having enforced on her for sometime.
> 
> If you had any sense of justice you wouldn't think that Jello is above the same forum rules she would impose of everyone else. Would you?



Cry moar is that rude? 



Inuhanyou said:


> ^ Evangelion is a series and a manga, and it just happens to be sold to minors as it stands now



I'm talking about the movies. And what do I care what minors can and can't do--I'm an adult. 



Xion said:


> Well the movie's even worse.



The movie won't be effected though, and I own all of the rest of Eva.



Mider T said:


> lol Pretty selfish nature I'm seeing here "It  doesn't affect me so I don't care".  Like I said before, the bill's  wording is slippery slope so if it one day interferes with your  interests, no whining.



Kids shouldn't really be getting a lot of the stuff they get over there honestly. It doesn't effect me mostly because I'm old enough to read anything I want. But marketing panty shots and lolicon to kids and then wondering why they grow up to rub their dick on a girl in the train is kind of silly.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Oh yeah, that's the same thing. You guys take anime far too seriously.



eh ????? how ???? sure you dont give a **** if you dont even like anime'n stuff
but i and alot of people here have been watchin and reading show for years and still unfinished and want to know how it end, and now whit this law they gonna disapear ?
remember your on a naruto forum, i've been watching this show for like 3 years all for nothing ?
they gonna stop berserk from publishing ? 20 years of unfinished work ? the author of this manga gived over 20 years of his life working on this manga and he still work on it and and its all gonna end ? just think about it.

imagine if in the us they ban all kind of violence and sexually related stuff even just such thing as a cleavage in anny movie and tv show and video game. only family stuff left, how would you react ? its the same exact stuff



yes its easy to say *just put a 18+ sticker* and stop to be angry, but damn f**** vague politicians just show me proof that its the case and nothing will be banned....


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Nevertheless the number of excuses, illogical bullshit, and selfish reasoning in this thread is rank and nauseating. It shows one of three things: a.) People just do not give a shit about what isn't in their own microcosm, b.) People have moral beliefs that supersede any sense of obligation to societal freedom, or c.) People are just sadly misinformed. Usually it's a combination of the three.

I used to be very moralistic too and would have likely made the same comments as CTK, but now I see the light...a very dark light.  Though seriously, now I support logic and freedom because forcing people to abide by my beliefs is fascist.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

ichigeau said:


> eh ????? how ???? sure you dont give a **** if you dont even like anime'n stuff
> but i and alot of people here have been watchin and reading show for years and still unfinished and want to know how it end, and now whit this law they gonna disapear ?
> remember your on a naruto forum, i've been watching this show for like 3 years all for nothing ?
> they gonna stop berserk from publishing ? 20 years of unfinished work ?
> ...



If your holding your breath for how Naruto ends I would stop worrying, it pretty much ended when they fucked up all of the writing in part II. 



Xion said:


> Nevertheless the number of excuses, illogical bullshit, and selfish reasoning in this thread is rank and nauseating. It shows one of three things: a.) People just do not give a shit about what isn't in their own microcosm, b.) People have moral beliefs that supersede any sense of obligation to societal freedom, or c.) People are just sadly misinformed. Usually it's a combination of the three.
> 
> I used to be very moralistic too and would have likely made the same comments as CTK, but now I see the light...a very dark light.  Though seriously, now I support logic and freedom because forcing people to abide by my beliefs is fascist.


How is this any different than the movie rating system? Kids can't go see rated R movies without a parent, they can't see NC-17 AT ALL. If a kids parents want them reading something, they can still buy it for them there.


----------



## Mintaka (Dec 15, 2010)

Oddly enough CTK the kids seem to be fine even though they are exposed to all this stuff you think they shouldn't be.


----------



## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

lol at some people in this thread just not getting it......


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I'm talking about the movies. And what do I care what minors can and can't do--I'm an adult.



Are you being intentionally ignorant about this? The bill specifically states that it has the power to self regulate any current or future production which violates its code. If the work is aimed at mass market consumption(ala EVA as a movie and as a series/anime) and that mass market includes the sale of minors (anyone below 18 years) the publisher of that series will be subject to penalty and banning of that series from store shelves.

Do you understand the implications now? Evangelion is not safe, if it violates the codes, it won't be sold.

And Gainax and and Tatsunoko will be the ones penalized.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 15, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> Oddly enough CTK the kids seem to be fine even though they are exposed to all this stuff you think they shouldn't be.



I wanna make a Catholic joke really badly right now.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Cry moar is that rude?



If your only response to a retort is throw out an inapplicable internet meme rather than engage in conversation that it is clear that continue a conversation with you further is a waste of my time. 

Feel free to come back once you've grown a pair and grow up a little.


----------



## Lightysnake (Dec 15, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Are you being intentionally ignorant about this? The bill specifically states that it has the power to self regulate any current or future production which violates its code. If the work is aimed at mass market consumption(ala EVA as a movie and as a series/anime) and that mass market includes the sale of minors (anyone below 18 years) the publisher of that series will be subject to penalty and banning of that series from store shelves.
> 
> Do you understand the implications now? Evangelion is not safe, if it violates the codes, it won't be sold.



You are aware this is done already?

This isn't as outright simple as Ishihara rushing in and personally censoring anything he dislikes.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Are you being intentionally ignorant about this? The bill specifically states that it has the power to self regulate any current or future production which violates its code. If the work is aimed at mass market consumption(ala EVA as a movie and as a series/anime) and that mass market includes the sale of minors (anyone below 18 years) the publisher of that series will be subject to penalty and banning of that series from store shelves.
> 
> Do you understand the implications now? Evangelion is not safe, if it violates the codes, it won't be sold.



It sounds like you're stretching the terms of the bill. They could just market it as "Adults Only" in theaters and its fine. 



Tokoyami said:


> Oddly enough CTK the kids seem to be fine even though they are exposed to all this stuff you think they shouldn't be.



They seem to be growing up with all kinds of weird fetishes, true fetishes are not good and they're considered disorders for a reason. 



Tkae said:


> This is the sound of Japan being overtaken by China.
> 
> EDIT: Any chances they had at resisting it before were completely undone by this destruction of their largest and most important export.
> 
> ...



Did you suddenly black out and forget that Japan makes electronics and video games and those things are way more useful and popular than anime?



strongarm85 said:


> If your only response to a retort is throw  out an inapplicable internet meme rather than engage in conversation  that it is clear that continue a conversation with you further is a  waste of my time.
> 
> Feel free to come back once you've grown a pair and grow up a little.



Um what the fuck? Her neg said cry moar...that's what I'm talking about. You need to slow down and read.


----------



## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> You are aware this is done already?
> 
> This isn't as outright simple as Ishihara rushing in and personally censoring anything he dislikes.



Considering Ishihara is spread-heading this entire operation, i wouldn't doubt that for a second  

The language in the bill itself leaves it completely possible.



And i hope you realize what that would do to the market, Cardboard. Your asking every series mangaka or publisher to cut out atleast 50 percent of their bottom line, if its not profitable anymore, then there's no point in it.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Tokoyami said:


> Oddly enough CTK the kids seem to be fine even though they are exposed to all this stuff you think they shouldn't be.



Then why does my 8 year old cousin and his friends at school talk about how they want to "Make that bitch in Mrs.Olson's class bend over and give it to her from behind like this *starts pelvic thrusting*"


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> How is this any different than the movie rating system? Kids can't go see rated R movies without a parent, they can't see NC-17 AT ALL. If a kids parents want them reading something, they can still buy it for them there.



Well the movie rating system is inefficacious bullshit as well for the same general line of reasoning. Why should there be restrictions on what can be shown in theaters? It does affect adults choices since many filmmakers must alter their work, sometimes significantly to get it to be screened or distributed widely.

But the primary difference is that under 18 means you can't see the movie, which I'm fine with. But this can be applied a lot more arbitrarily to shounen and seinen to effectively cut off any economically feasible distribution channel. So having a group of stodgy curmudgeons sitting around a table deciding what rather eclectically counts as "too violent" is pretty much a worst case scenario for a lot of shounen and seinen out there. 4Kids! at a government level, banishing anything they disapprove of to nonexistence due to economic infeasibility.


----------



## Mintaka (Dec 15, 2010)

> They seem to be growing up with all kinds of weird fetishes, true  fetishes are not good and they're considered disorders for a reason.


A disorder eh?

I don't see these fetishes they have impacting there lives to badly in all but the worst cases so I kind of doubt the disorder idea.



> Then why does my 8 year old cousin and his friends at school talk about  how they want to "Make that bitch in Mrs.Olson's class bend over and  give it to her from behind like this *starts pelvic thrusting* "


Are you from japan?


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Did you suddenly black out and forget that Japan makes electronics and video games and those things are way more useful and popular than anime?




video game is also targeted.
only novel and live action wont... (sure cause real people isin't real enough like drawing....)



> Q: This is only sexual stuff, right?
> A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
> 
> Q: Elaborate?
> ...



i got this on the other thread dont remember where....


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Then why does my 8 year old cousin and his friends at school talk about how they want to "Make that bitch in Mrs.Olson's class bend over and give it to her from behind like this *starts pelvic thrusting*"



Maybe because the parents are bad? Maybe because they have cousins who talk like that in front of them? Maybe because they grew up in a ghetto? Maybe because they are just dirty little kids who will amount to intellectual nothingness?

Blaming it on the society and the generation is one of the oldest and most fallacious archetypes known to mankind. Now the media is the culprit of course and we must absolve our peers and parents of responsibility!


----------



## Griever (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They seem to be growing up with all kinds of weird fetishes, true fetishes are not good and they're considered disorders for a reason.



Fetishes are fine so long as you know where to keep them.



> Did you suddenly black out and forget that Japan makes electronics and video games and those things are way more useful and popular than anime?



Video games are also effected  .


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Um what the fuck? Her neg said cry moar...that's what I'm talking about. You need to slow down and read.



Oh, I thought you were telling me to cry moar.

And Yeah, it kind of is rude.

Your basically telling someone to go pout in a corner like a little kid. Its not only rude, but its also obnoxious and self-gratifying. Its also a clear violation of forum rep rules which are going unenforced when applied to Jello. The standard punishment for that is rep-seal.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> How is this any different than the movie rating system? Kids can't go see rated R movies without a parent, they can't see NC-17 AT ALL. If a kids parents want them reading something, they can still buy it for them there.



The bill makes it as though there are only "G" and "NC-17" ratings. Nothing in between.

Surely you can see how ridiculous that is?


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> Well the movie rating system is inefficacious bullshit as well for the same general line of reasoning. Why should there be restrictions on what can be shown in theaters? It does affect adults choices since many filmmakers must alter their work, sometimes significantly to get it to be screened or distributed widely.
> 
> But the primary difference is that under 18 means you can't see the movie, which I'm fine with. But this can be applied a lot more arbitrarily to shounen and seinen to effectively cut off any economically feasible distribution channel. So having a group of stodgy curmudgeons sitting around a table deciding what rather eclectically counts as "too violent" is pretty much a worst case scenario for a lot of shounen and seinen out there. 4Kids! at a government level, banishing anything they disapprove of to nonexistence due to economic infeasibility.



There's a book at the bookstore called "CUNT" guess what, kids can't buy it yet the author's making enough money to distribute it. You're busy going down a slippery slope that hasn't happened yet and finding the conclusions necessary for your argument to make sense. 



Tokoyami said:


> A disorder eh?
> 
> I don't see these fetishes they have impacting there lives to badly in all but the worst cases so I kind of doubt the disorder idea.



Read what she said. 



PoisonIvy said:


> Then why does my 8 year old cousin and his  friends at school talk about how they want to "Make that bitch in  Mrs.Olson's class bend over and give it to her from behind like this  *starts pelvic thrusting*"



That's the case all around, kids are growing up exposed to more sexual stuff and its not appropriate or positive as they start seeing women as objects or things to be abused.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> Maybe because the parents are bad? Maybe because they have cousins who talk like that in front of them? Maybe because they grew up in a ghetto?
> 
> Blaming it on the society and the generation is one of the oldest and most fallacious archetypes known to mankind. Now the media is the culprit of course and we must absolve our peers and parents of responsibility!



Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.


----------



## Gecka (Dec 15, 2010)

With japan's economy already failing, was this really a good idea?


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.



Responsibility ultimately lies with the parents.


----------



## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> lol Pretty selfish nature I'm seeing here "It doesn't affect me so I don't care".  Like I said before, the bill's wording is slippery slope so if it one day interferes with your interests, no whining.



I think the people who are selfish are the people who claim this is a substantive violation of liberty. It's not. There are far worse things happening in our own back yard with regards to freedom of speech. Visible protest anymore is practically illegal. They'll cordon  you off away from anyone able to see you in "Free Speech Zones" and let you protest your hearts out. The government has been spying on anti-war groups since 2003, unconstitutionally wiretapping people without warrants. What gets everyone's attention?

A pathetic amendment to an ordnance that has been in place for years that requires publishers to take active steps to self-regulate and not sell anime or manga with overt sexuality to minors.

Yeah. I'm going to go keep on not caring in the grand scheme of things, and focus on the things that actually matter.


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Then why does my 8 year old cousin and his friends at school talk about how they want to "Make that bitch in Mrs.Olson's class bend over and give it to her from behind like this *starts pelvic thrusting*"



Sounds like your cousin and his friends are fucking psychopaths.

I've never seen anyone, let alone grade schoolers, behave that way.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> Responsibility ultimately lies with the parents.



Because kids _always_ listen to their parents.


----------



## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> They seem to be growing up with all kinds of weird fetishes, true fetishes are not good and they're considered disorders for a reason.



Bullshit. Disorder =/= fetish. Maybe eating people, but honestly even if people like that stuff, how many actually act on such fetishes?

You have an Elizabethan sense of morality that likely acts as a veil over the darker parts of your mind.


----------



## Lightysnake (Dec 15, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Considering Ishihara is spread-heading this entire operation, i wouldn't doubt that for a second
> 
> The language in the bill itself leaves it completely possible.


It's to be decided by committee. I have no doubt Ishihara would LIKE to do this, but in all actuality?



> And i hope you realize what that would do to the market, Cardboard. Your asking every series mangaka or publisher to cut out atleast 50 percent of their bottom line, if its not profitable anymore, then there's no point in it.



I see you're going to engage in rather ill informed fear mongering. 

an outright ban would, if I'm not mistaken, be against the Japanese constitution. The loophole is restriction to certain age group. And it's largely targeted at sexuality more than anything else. (Likely at the BL and i*c*st areas from the wording in the bill)

The bill explicitly adds the definition that 'restrictable' content includes: ?Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.? Basically, anything sexual in nature.

The confusion has arisen cause the way ANN quoted that particular definition from Kanemitsu's blog with simply "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order." And not making it clear its referring to sexual behavior. That has lead people to believe anything that could be consider disruptive (anarchy, rebellion, crime, etc) to be targeted, when its not.


----------



## squilliam (Dec 15, 2010)

*Spoiler*: _Ishihara has a message for you all_ 




*U MAD?*


----------



## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> I think the people who are selfish are the people who claim this is a substantive violation of liberty. It's not. There are far worse things happening in our own back yard with regards to freedom of speech. Visible protest anymore is practically illegal. They'll cordon  you off away from anyone able to see you in "Free Speech Zones" and let you protest your hearts out. The government has been spying on anti-war groups since 2003, unconstitutionally wiretapping people without warrants. What gets everyone's attention?
> 
> A pathetic amendment to an ordnance that has been in place for years that requires publishers to take active steps to self-regulate and not sell anime or manga with overt sexuality to minors.
> 
> Yeah. I'm going to go keep on not caring in the grand scheme of things, and focus on the things that actually matter.





> Only things that I think are important are actually important



This is you.

This is what you sound like.


----------



## Seto Kaiba (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> I think the people who are selfish are the people who claim this is a substantive violation of liberty. It's not. There are far worse things happening in our own back yard with regards to freedom of speech. Visible protest anymore is practically illegal. They'll cordon  you off away from anyone able to see you in "Free Speech Zones" and let you protest your hearts out. The government has been spying on anti-war groups since 2003, unconstitutionally wiretapping people without warrants. What gets everyone's attention?
> 
> A pathetic amendment to an ordnance that has been in place for years that requires publishers to take active steps to self-regulate and not sell anime or manga with overt sexuality to minors.
> 
> Yeah. I'm going to go keep on not caring in the grand scheme of things, and focus on the things that actually matter.



People actually are able to give their attention on more than one issue.


----------



## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.



violent video game are rated M for mature, that mean 18+
do the kid still play them ? yes they do

where is the problem ? the video game ? no its the parents
woud the parents allow that their child watch pornography ? no because its 18+ then why they buy violent game for adults to their kids or dont even watch what they are buying or playing ?

its the responsability of the parents.


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## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh shut the fuck up strongarm. You've left more than your fair share of negs far ruder than "Cry Some More", on both myself and others.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> Sounds like your cousin and his friends are fucking psychopaths.
> 
> I've never seen anyone, let alone grade schoolers, behave that way.



You've never been around kids? 



Xion said:


> Bullshit. Disorder =/= fetish. Maybe eating people, but honestly even if people like that stuff, how many actually act on such fetishes?
> 
> You have an Elizabethan sense of morality that likely acts as a veil over the darker parts of your mind.



Actually I have the fucking sense to look up things that I'm talking about. Sexual Fetishism is a treatable disorder. 



I know you guys like to believe that you can just say shit and make it truth, but all of the crap you guys like or think is cute isn't viewed by the world outside of the internet the same way. Fetishes don't mean you simply "like something sexually in a normal way" that's why its classified.

I love how you all act like they took your Burquas or some shit. You would think the Red Coats were taxing the tea again.


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.



Everything has an effect.

But let's look at it the big picture for a moment. 

What has greater influence in a young individual's life? What makes the sociopath? Is it more apt to be the television or is it more apt to be parents that are abusive, manipulative, or antipathetic? If they are bullied by mean-spirited kids at school or if they listen to metal?

It's mainly a problem with how people treat others. 

So what if a cousin acts like an ass? Should we suddenly ruin it for the 95% of the rest of society that can mentally handle media? 

Should we ban the sale of marijuana to everyone and create tons of other societal problems because kids might smoke it! Should we make it infeasible to publish violent manga because a child might read it!? Should we ban the F-word from regular cable at all times because a child might hear it!?

Government...get your hands the fuck off my life!


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.



If media had that much of an effect the majority of the people on this forum would have done some jailtime by now, seeing as most of us have spent inordinate amounts of time reading/watching/playing manga/anime/video games.

This bill is garbage. You can't deny that. Are your cousins behaving like that because they saw some cleavage in a shounen manga?


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 31 (21 members and 10 guests)
Mider T, First Tsurugi, Inuhanyou, PoisonIvy, Gino, Lightysnake, The Max, GunX2, NaruSaku4Life, ichigeau, Pringer Lagann, Seto Kaiba, 王志鍵



Jello Biafra said:


> I think the people who are selfish are the people who claim this is a substantive violation of liberty. It's not. There are far worse things happening in our own back yard with regards to freedom of speech. Visible protest anymore is practically illegal. They'll cordon  you off away from anyone able to see you in "Free Speech Zones" and let you protest your hearts out. The government has been spying on anti-war groups since 2003, unconstitutionally wiretapping people without warrants. What gets everyone's attention?
> 
> A pathetic amendment to an ordnance that has been in place for years that requires publishers to take active steps to self-regulate and not sell anime or manga with overt sexuality to minors.
> 
> Yeah. I'm going to go keep on not caring in the grand scheme of things, and focus on the things that actually matter.



I don't think anyone is seriously protesting the violation of liberty any moreso than they're complaining about human rights in Scandanavia.  If so, then why haven't more threads been brought up about crackdowns in Japan?  Because this affects them personally, so yeah that's selfish.  I'm not whining about that though

I'm talking about the "Call me when "_____" gets affected, then I'll care" comments.  Like, who even needs that?


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You've never been around kids?



I have three other siblings, all younger than me. I've constantly been around kids of all ages and at all levels of development.

I've never heard anyone ever say anything remotely as explicit as that, even in high school where rape jokes are commonplace.


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## Griever (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Seriously? You can't deny media has an effect.



My parents never gave a shit what i watched when i was 5 i watched "Full metal jacket" with my dad, when i was 7 i had the entire "nightmare on elm street" and "friday the 13th" collections. didn't make me any worse for the ware


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Actually I have the fucking sense to look up things that I'm talking about. Sexual Fetishism is a treatable disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you guys like to believe that you can just say shit and make it truth, but all of the crap you guys like or think is cute isn't viewed by the world outside of the internet the same way. Fetishes don't mean you simply "like something sexually in a normal way" that's why its classified.



Ah. Now you resort to clarifying fetishism after a sweeping generalization that was wrong.

And if you actually read what you posted you would see that "Psychologists and medical practitioners regard fetishism as normal variations of human sexuality" and that "The leading criterion is that a fetishist is ill only if he or she suffers from the addiction, not simply because of the addiction itself."

Twisting words to fit your beliefs is bad. Take a step back, breathe, and realize that we need to sculpt a better, more informed society. Who is to say what belief system is right and how we should influence others through law because of those beliefs?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> I don't think anyone is seriously protesting the violation of liberty any moreso than they're complaining about human rights in Scandanavia.  If so, then why haven't more threads been brought up about crackdowns in Japan?  Because this affects them personally, so yeah that's selfish.  I'm not whining about that though
> 
> I'm talking about the "Call me when "_____" gets affected, then I'll care" comments.  Like, who even needs that?



It's because people are acting like this is some great international travesty (when all that's happened is a small change to a law) and there's people out there right now that are actually evil doing evil shit, then a thread like this gets all the attention because it has to do with comics that may or may not be harder to find.


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## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

It seems allot of people like to blame their weak mindedness on the media so therefor they feel the need to fuck it up for the rest of society sad sad day indeed....


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> I have three other siblings, all younger than me. I've constantly been around kids of all ages and at all levels of development.
> 
> I've never heard anyone ever say anything remotely as explicit as that, even in high school where rape jokes are commonplace.



I have been around kids a fair bit too, and they do shit like that. They also start watching porn at like 7 or 8 sometimes which is way too early. 



Xion said:


> Ah. Now you resort to clarifying fetishism after a sweeping generalization that was wrong.
> 
> And if you actually read what you posted you would see that  "Psychologists and medical practitioners regard fetishism as normal  variations of human sexuality" and that "The leading criterion is that a  fetishist is ill only if he or she suffers from the addiction, not  simply because of the addiction itself."
> 
> Twisting words to fit your beliefs is bad. Take a step back, breathe,  and realize that we need to sculpt a better, more informed society. Who  is to say what belief system is right and how we should influence others  through law because of those beliefs?



Eh, you sound like Petenshi, that makes me not want to respond. Sorry, but what decides normal is what most people's brains work right. Rubbing your junk on people in trains will be okay when we all do it.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

Lightysnake said:


> It's to be decided by committee. I have no doubt Ishihara would LIKE to do this, but in all actuality?



A committe that he's put together?  Come on, there's only one reason to have the bill approved in the first place, and that is to clean up, things will be banned for sure.




> I see you're going to engage in rather ill informed fear mongering.
> 
> an outright ban would, if I'm not mistaken, be against the Japanese constitution. The loophole is restriction to certain age group. And it's largely targeted at sexuality more than anything else. (Likely at the BL and i*c*st areas from the wording in the bill)
> 
> ...



I'm not trying to scare anyone  I'm only going by what i've heard personally 

And it stands to reason, that if you block the basic fundamentals of any average shounen for example(sex, violence or 'means to commit a crime'), then that leaves nothing 

Of course there wouldn't be bans left and right if there was compliance, but with several publishers already voicing support for ignoring the law completely and putting in whatever it is regardless, your damn right we're going to see shit hit the fan.


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## Mider T (Dec 15, 2010)

This law only affects the Tokyo area (for now) so I can't see it TOO hard to be worked around.


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## Jello Biafra (Dec 15, 2010)

Seto Kaiba said:


> People actually are able to give their attention on more than one issue.


Some of us prioritize what we choose to care about, because if we don't, we'll burn out.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

It's too late for this thread, I should have gone to bed already. PoisonIvy can speak for me, s/he seems to have some sense.


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 31 (21 members and 10 guests)
> Mider T, First Tsurugi, Inuhanyou, PoisonIvy, Gino, Lightysnake, The Max, GunX2, NaruSaku4Life, ichigeau, Pringer Lagann, Seto Kaiba, 王志鍵



Am I invisible? I've been sitting in this thread for over half an hour. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I have been around kids a fair bit too, and they do shit like that. They also start watching porn at like 7 or 8 sometimes which is way too early.



The concept of kids watching porn at 7/8 is hardly the fault of the media.


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## GunX2 (Dec 15, 2010)

The sheer ignorance i have seen in this thread is unreal. 



I cant believe this shit passed.


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's because people are acting like this is some great international travesty (when all that's happened is a small change to a law) and there's people out there right now that are actually evil doing evil shit, then a thread like this gets all the attention because it has to do with comics that may or may not be harder to find.



Does this apply to the Wikileaks issue as well?

I mean, surely the horrors of the release of classified information doesn't hold a candle to genocides in Africa or the violence in Mexico, right?

Trying to decide what does and does not deserve attention is futile.



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I have been around kids a fair bit too, and they do shit like that. They also start watching porn at like 7 or 8 sometimes which is way too early.



So based on our personal experience, in spite of being exposed to the same media, the outcome is different.

I wonder why that could be?


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Eh, you sound like Petenshi, that makes me not want to respond. Sorry, but what decides normal is what most people's brains work right. Rubbing your junk on people in trains will be okay when we all do it.



Normality is a stereotype. A fallacious, iniquitous stereotype forged by people when they fail to grasp the inherent psychological complexities of the human condition.

Rubbing your junk on people is a big hyperbole to what I said. It directly, tangibly affects others and so of course should be illegal. Two people wanting to have sex for money though? That shouldn't be illegal...because it's consensual!

I am all about the freedom of the individual so long as it infringes on no one else right to not be involved in one's peculiarities and idiosyncrasies. 

And honestly, why should you care? If it doesn't affect you, why would you want to regulate it and harm someone it does affect?


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## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> I have been around kids a fair bit too, and they do shit like that. They also start watching porn at like 7 or 8 sometimes which is way too early.



who is responsible for this ? their parent
why they even let theirs kids doing wathever they like on the internet ? its their responsability


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

Mider T said:


> This law only affects the Tokyo area (for now) so I can't see it TOO hard to be worked around.



as has been said several times, the tokyo area just happens to be where most of the subjects being affected reside  Unless every publisher and animation studio gets up and moves to like, Hokkaido or some shit within the next 6 months ,there's no way they wouldn't be effected atleast in some way


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## Pringer Lagann (Dec 15, 2010)

You also have to love how some old, discriminatory, hypocritical politician happens to be the same ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who is spearheading this bill (He wrote an erotic novel that featured rape of all things). Don't you love humanity


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

Pringer Lagann said:


> You also have to love how some old, discriminatory, hypocritical politician happens to be the same ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who is spearheading this bill (He wrote an erotic novel that featured rape of all things). Don't you love humanity



Did they finally find dirt on Ishihara?

Haha, nice.


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## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Pringer Lagann said:


> You also have to love how some old, discriminatory, hypocritical politician happens to be the same ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who is spearheading this bill (He wrote an erotic novel that featured rape of all things). Don't you love humanity



ya only novel and live action is not touched so his book will not be ban 
this make me puke


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## Lightysnake (Dec 15, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> A committe that he's put together?  Come on, there's only one reason to have the bill approved in the first place, and that is to clean up, things will be banned for sure.


You make it sound like he's got pure and absolute executive power in this.
in essence, Lrn2Law




> I'm not trying to scare anyone  I'm only going by what i've heard personally


Well, I HEARD that Japan is reinstating the feudal system and I HEARD they're going to invade China again.

Saying what you 'heard' with no real basis with annoying smilies? Fear mongering



> And it stands to reason, that if you block the basic fundamentals of any average shounen for example(sex, violence or 'means to commit a crime'), then that leaves nothing


Yeah, except that's not what the damn bill does. It's not like they're going to start censoring everything with drops of blood in it



> Of course there wouldn't be bans left and right if there was compliance, but with several publishers already voicing support for ignoring the law completely and putting in whatever it is regardless, your damn right we're going to see shit hit the fan.



At the very worst, the industry will be a little more stringent, but this isn't the comics code, FFS.


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

Pringer Lagann said:


> You also have to love how some old, discriminatory, hypocritical politician happens to be the same ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who is spearheading this bill (He wrote an erotic novel that featured rape of all things). Don't you love humanity



Hear about those evangelicals and Republicans who turn out to be pedophiles and having affairs? 

Exactly the same bullshit. The less honest people are with themselves the more they harm both themselves and society.


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## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

Pringer Lagann said:


> You also have to love how some old, discriminatory, hypocritical politician happens to be the same ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) who is spearheading this bill (He wrote an erotic novel that featured rape of all things). Don't you love humanity



That son of a bitch looks like we got a real life Aizen level troll on our hands


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Like it or not, the media has some effect people. You don't have to get butthurt and blind yourself.

When children are growing up a lot don't look to their "uncool" parents on how to be, they take cues from the "cool" media. Plenty of little girls (who haven't even hit puberty yet) these days are only worried about being "hot" so boys will like them, thanks to the portray of women.


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Like it or not, the media has some effect people. You don't have to get butthurt and blind yourself.
> 
> When children are growing up a lot don't look to their "uncool" parents on how to be, they take cues from the "cool" media. *Plenty of little girls (who haven't even hit puberty yet) these days are only worried about being "hot" so boys will like them, thanks to the portray of women*.



And it's up to their parents to tell them not to give a shit in such a way the kids will care. And yes. It can be done. I've seen it.

This bill isn't banning 18+ hentai. It's banning shounen-level panty shots. If you want to argue that media promotes violence, maybe you need to prioritize what should be banned first.


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## ichigeau (Dec 15, 2010)

Gino said:


> That son of a bitch looks like we got a real life Aizen level troll on our hands



but this is worst than mullet



talking of this, tite kubo said on twiter he aprove some boycut stuff of  publisher i dont know all the story... and i heard the prime minister of japan dont really like this law..... hmmmm..... (i saw this on a thread...dont have source...)


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## Mintaka (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> It's because people are acting like this is some great international travesty (when all that's happened is a small change to a law) and there's people out there right now that are actually evil doing evil shit, then a thread like this gets all the attention because it has to do with comics that may or may not be harder to find.


This is a great international travesty!

When you mess with my schoolgirls with big tits you have overstepped your bounds and have assaulted my very being!


Also thanks for the "suggestion" for my new title.


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Like it or not, the media has some effect people. You don't have to get butthurt and blind yourself.
> 
> When children are growing up a lot don't look to their "uncool" parents on how to be, they take cues from the "cool" media. Plenty of little girls (who haven't even hit puberty yet) these days are only worried about being "hot" so boys will like them, thanks to the portray of women.



Pray tell, how well have these blocks worked at influencing kids to stop acting that way? Should we put them in boxes and tell adults they can only watch kids shows during the day except for late at night?

Or perhaps we could, I don't know, be better parents and keep our kids away from that stuff or at least instill "values" into them. Or people could just not have kids if the little bastards will cause that much trouble for everyone. 

Adorable kids now = ignorant people posting on NF 20 years later.


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## Inuhanyou (Dec 15, 2010)

Don't shoot the messenger Lighty  If one doesn't want to hear the more-than-possible implications of the bill, that's fine  Just wait till July.


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

PikaCheeka said:


> And it's up to their parents to tell them not to give a shit in such a way the kids will care.



It's that easy huh. How many times have you heard parents pleading "I didn't raise you that way, why are you acting like that? I've taught you better than this."


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Like it or not, the media has some effect people. You don't have to get butthurt and blind yourself.
> 
> When children are growing up a lot don't look to their "uncool" parents on how to be, they take cues from the "cool" media. Plenty of little girls (who haven't even hit puberty yet) these days are only worried about being "hot" so boys will like them, thanks to the portray of women.



If your kids turn out that way it's probably because you're letting the media do the parenting for you.

It's not the government's job to raise your children. If you can't give them a proper upbringing, then maybe you shouldn't have had kids in the first place.


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## Pringer Lagann (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Like it or not, the media has some effect people. You don't have to get butthurt and blind yourself.
> 
> When children are growing up a lot don't look to their "uncool" parents on how to be, they take cues from the "cool" media. Plenty of little girls (who haven't even hit puberty yet) these days are only worried about being "hot" so boys will like them, thanks to the portray of women.



Last I checked, no government of any form had any sort of obligation to babysit your offspring. There are these things called Parents/Guardians/Caretakers; helping the child distinguish the difference between reality and fiction happens to be one of their lifelong tasks


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## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

Inuhanyou said:


> Don't shoot the messenger Lighty  If one doesn't want to hear the more-than-possible implications of the bill, that's fine  Just wait till July.



*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHA*


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## Gecka (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> It's that easy huh. How many times have you heard parents pleading "I didn't raise you that way, why are you acting like that? I've taught you better than this."



Then it's up to the parents to minimize outside influences.


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> It's that easy huh. How many times have you heard parents pleading "I didn't raise you that way, why are you acting like that? I've taught you better than this."



Saying things like that is just a way to deny responsibility for failure.


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Gecka said:


> Then it's up to the parents to minimize outside influences.



Which is exactly what they have done. One thing that fueled this ban was parents complaining about the content in manga/anime.


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## First Tsurugi (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Which is exactly what they have done. One thing that fueled this ban was parents complaining about the content in manga/anime.



Minimizing outside influences is not buying them manga they shouldn't be reading, not letting them watch shows they shouldn't be watching, and not letting them make friends with bad influences.

Getting the government to do your job for you is laziness.


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> It's that easy huh. How many times have you heard parents pleading "I didn't raise you that way, why are you acting like that? I've taught you better than this."



Given the field I study, I've seen my fair share of delinquency. I've also seen my fair share of negligence.  

What I haven't seen is any implications that the shit that goes on in shounen manga is what makes kids kill and rape. Stuff in 18+ hentai? Doubtful, but you could make the argument. But how is that kid getting ahold of that stuff anyway? And why should non-adult manga be pulled from the shelves because of what adult manga COULD be causing?

Speaking of which, Japan has one of the lowest violent crime rates first-worldwide, doesn't it? Manga - The outlet for your kids' fantasies.


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Which is exactly what they have done. One thing that fueled this ban was parents complaining about the content in manga/anime.



Hey sounds like how a lot of bullshit laws that have no proven results, yet preclude freedoms for others, get put into effect!

Honestly if all parents thought the opposite of how you think, maybe we'd actually have a society that emphasized freedom of thought and individuality and that tackled actual problems like you know...mass starvation or the colossal gap in living standards even locally, all instead of trying to babysit society and failing miserably like they always do.

Too bad society isn't based on logic but rather emotions and people's dogmatic superstitions.


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## Mintaka (Dec 15, 2010)

I wonder how long it will take before this idiot gets death threats from weaboo and otaku?  ((if he doesn't get them already))


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## hehey (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Which is exactly what they have done. One thing that fueled this ban was parents complaining about the content in manga/anime.


what they have done is ruined everything for the fans of these things, and the fans of Seinen manga (thats not for kids anyway) and Yaoi, and all that other stuff that kids arent probably reading anyway.

These parents are just lazy, "oh, i dont feel like watching my kids or making sure they arent reading stuff i dont like.... let me get the government to screw everyone else over for teh sake of this".


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

First Tsurugi said:


> Minimizing outside influences is not buying them manga they shouldn't be reading, not letting them watch shows they shouldn't be watching, and not letting them make friends with bad influences.
> 
> *Getting the government to do your job for you is laziness.*



Okay, we should make cigarettes and alcohol legal to persons under 18/21 and make it up to the parents to stop them from buying it. Getting the government to do your job for you is laziness.


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## Griever (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> It's that easy huh. How many times have you heard parents pleading "I didn't raise you that way, why are you acting like that? I've taught you better than this."




Makeing mistakes is a part of growing up, no matter how a parent raises their kids or what thay are allowed and not allowed to watch thay are going to make mistakes and form their own views in life. Those views may or may not meet the expectations of their parents, and those views may actually have little to nothing to do with media but rather the life experiences thay have had thus far. 

every single person takes something different form their surrounding environment and many things play a role in their development as such children can even take something positive from controversial media.


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## hehey (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Okay, we should make cigarettes and alcohol legal to persons under 18/21 and make it up to the parents to stop them from buying it. Getting the government to do your job for you is laziness.


not the same, Cigarettes and alcohol being unavailiable to 18/21 year olds in no way prevents those older than that from enjoying them if they wish.

This on the other hand is not like that, many manga will end up canceled, publishers will force authors to not draw certain things (this is already happening as we speak, that one woman mangaka who was told she couldnt set a yaoi manga she was writing in high school). This does prevent others from enjoying it, and it prevents authors their creative freedom, it could break the industry.

Your comparison is ridiculous.


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

hehey said:


> not the same, Cigarettes and alcohol being unavailiable to 18/21 year olds in no way prevents those older than that from enjoying them if they wish.
> 
> This on the other hand is not like that, many manga will end up canceled, publishers will force authors to not draw certain things (this is already happening as we speak, that one woman mangaka who was told she couldnt set a yaoi manga she was writing in high school). This does prevent others from enjoying it, and it prevents authors their creative freedom, it could break the industry.
> 
> Your comparison is ridiculous.



You're over-reacting. None of that shiz will even happen. Worst case scenario: Oh no, no more armadillo penis in Naruto.


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## Xion (Dec 15, 2010)

PoisonIvy said:


> Okay, we should make cigarettes and alcohol legal to persons under 18/21 and make it up to the parents to stop them from buying it. Getting the government to do your job for you is laziness.



The 18/21 argument is fine by me. But in the case of drugs they're almost all illegal because of fucking morality and "children might get peripheral access to them" (they do without the laws anyway) arguments. Hence morality > science according to government and hence the inane policies on the books that harm so many. 

This can effectively economically screw over seinen which are meant for adults in the first place. So it's a different matter entirely to age restrictions.


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## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Xion said:


> The 18/21 argument is fine by me. But in the case of drugs they're almost all illegal because of fucking morality and "children might get peripheral access to them" (they do without the laws anyway) arguments. Hence morality > science according to government and hence the inane policies on the books that harm so many.
> 
> This can effectively economically screw over seinen which are meant for adults in the first place. So it's a different matter entirely to age restrictions.



If it's meant for adults in the first place how will it get screwed over?

BTW: I don't actually support the ban.


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## Munak (Dec 15, 2010)

Adult-themed mangas aren't exactly best-sellers.

Not to mention their chances of being exported are close to nothing, where the real manga money is right now.


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## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

Looks like everyone went night night...


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## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Gino said:


> Looks like everyone went night night...



Or manga spoilers started coming out.


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## Gino (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh shit thanks


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## strongarm85 (Dec 15, 2010)

Jello Biafra said:


> Oh shut the fuck up strongarm. You've left more than your fair share of negs far ruder than "Cry Some More", on both myself and others.



Oh really. Well by all means. Back up your assertion, if your even able to.

If you plan on holding anyone to standards so lofty the first person you should accountable is yourself.


----------



## Rabbit and Rose (Dec 15, 2010)

The black market will blow this up on their face.


----------



## PoisonIvy (Dec 15, 2010)

Red Queen said:


> The black market will blow this up on their face.



Lol at the thought of black market manga


----------



## pikachuwei (Dec 15, 2010)

"hey dude, wanna buy some crack?"

"crack, fuck no, who needs that shit. Do you sell copies of ToLoveRu here?"

"yeah, 1000 yen per volume"



the above shall obviously be in japanese


----------



## Adagio (Dec 15, 2010)

Lets hope they export a couple tons of that shit to other parts in the world then


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 15, 2010)

Well things that will be gone from will be such as no more of that Naked Female jutsu that Naruto uses to distract opponents...


----------



## Sword Sage (Dec 15, 2010)

Hellrasinbrasin said:


> Well things that will be gone from will be such as no more of that Naked Female jutsu that Naruto uses to distract opponents...



Thats rarely been used in the series.


----------



## Patchouli (Dec 15, 2010)

Wait, are you trying to tell me Kishi won't be allowed to draw armadillo penises?


----------



## Kαrin (Dec 15, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> "hey dude, wanna buy some crack?"
> 
> "crack, fuck no, who needs that shit. Do you sell copies of ToLoveRu here?"
> 
> "yeah, 1000 yen per volume"



lol.


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

What's going on here is a bunch of people who don't have kids to look after and worry about talking out of their asses about how easy it is to keep things from your kids. Unless you keep them locked away and home school them, there's a chance that they could be exposed to things you don't want them to be and there's an even better chance they won't ask questions to a reliable person about it. They could pick up unfavorable manga and just read it in the store...I know that they wrap them, but it comes right off and there's always one that's been uncovered. Even if you don't buy the stuff for them, friends could or friends could show them, they could see something on the internet at a friends home or something even...

We have young teens addicted to pornography already and getting very skewed bad ideas about what sex is supposed to be like and really is like, but none of that seems to matter to anyone here because they're worried more about getting their manga than what anyone else has to go through. 

A lot of the perversion and fan service just needs to be kind of dropped in all honestly because it gets to the point of absurdity in many animes I've seen. And often you do sit there and go "this is meant for kids?"


----------



## Stalin (Dec 15, 2010)

I am fine with that as long as it doesn't affect the industry in any negative way.


----------



## MrCinos (Dec 15, 2010)

I wonder how 2ch is reacting to this.

I hope they'll wage a war against such censorship


----------



## KyuubiFan (Dec 15, 2010)

Damn. I just found T-L-R: Darkness the other day.

I hope the mangakas will do something against this.


----------



## 王志鍵 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> What's going on here is a bunch of people who don't have kids to look after and worry about talking out of their asses about how easy it is to keep things from your kids. Unless you keep them locked away and home school them, there's a chance that they could be exposed to things you don't want them to be and there's an even better chance they won't ask questions to a reliable person about it. They could pick up unfavorable manga and just read it in the store...I know that they wrap them, but it comes right off and there's always one that's been uncovered. Even if you don't buy the stuff for them, friends could or friends could show them, they could see something on the internet at a friends home or something even...
> 
> We have young teens addicted to pornography already and getting very skewed bad ideas about what sex is supposed to be like and really is like, but none of that seems to matter to anyone here because they're worried more about getting their manga than what anyone else has to go through.
> 
> A lot of the perversion and fan service just needs to be kind of dropped in all honestly because it gets to the point of absurdity in many animes I've seen. And often you do sit there and go "this is meant for kids?"



I'm sorry to say this but censorship and regulation won't do jack shit. As you stated already before, kids will always find alternative ways to get pornography or violent material through internet or friends. Unless we censor those things too(like what China has done to the Internet), kids will always be exposed to those unfavorable things whether you like it or not. The main problem I have about this bill is that it isn't helping anyone at all. This bill is only going to hurt the already crippling anime/manga industry, the manga artists and producers, and most importantly, the fans. Why should everyone else have to suffer just because lazy parents don't bother to teach their kids the difference between fantasy and reality?


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

王志鍵 said:


> I'm sorry to say this but censorship and regulation won't do jack shit. As you stated already before, kids will always find alternative ways to get pornography or violent material through internet or friends. Unless we censor those things too(like what China has done to the Internet), kids will always be exposed to those unfavorable things whether you like it or not. The main problem I have about this bill is that it isn't helping anyone at all. This bill is only going to hurt the already crippling anime/manga industry, the manga artists and producers, and most importantly, the fans. Why should everyone else have to suffer just because lazy parents don't bother to teach their kids the difference between fantasy and reality?



Parents could use a little help, I don't know why they have to be solely responsible for the content put out where kids can get it when they can't control the stores and the like. The thing is that its censorship in the most lax way, saying that something has to be marked for adults is hardly like them going out burning big piles of manga. 

You guys are treating this shit like they're controlling the news or something when its a bunch of comics your all ready to riot over. It just seems like too much fight for a hardly important issue.


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## kazuri (Dec 15, 2010)

Everything is equally important to everyone.


----------



## pikachuwei (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> Parents could use a little help, I don't know why they have to be solely responsible for the content put out where kids can get it when they can't control the stores and the like. The thing is that its censorship in the most lax way, saying that something has to be marked for adults is hardly like them going out burning big piles of manga.
> 
> You guys are treating this shit like they're controlling the news or something when its a bunch of comics your all ready to riot over. It just seems like too much fight for a hardly important issue.



well you see for the vast majority of the posters here manga/anime is probably a bigger part of their lives than the "world news" posted in other threads. We all like to debate and talk about crisises around the world, but really, how many of us are affected by the sudanese crisis or the palestinian conflict or terrorist attacks in sweden? Whereas just about everyone here has dabbled in manga/anime at least once. Heck the fact that we are wasting our lives posting on a forum NAMED after a manga character means that for those of you who havent touched manga or anime before,  if you are a frequent poster on these boards, manga/anime has indirectly influenced your life.

Big shit that happens but doesnt influence your life < little shit that happens and influences your life


----------



## Daenerys Stormborn (Dec 15, 2010)

From what this says, it sounds like previously existing laws already allowed the government to designate overly violent/sexual media as 18+; the new ordinance just seems to make it clear that this includes drawn/animated imagery.  



PikaCheeka said:


> But oh goodie. They're taking artistic merit into account.  Does anyone else find that sickeningly comical?



That's actually a good thing.  The idea of "artistic merit" is why things like Michaelangelo's _David_ or that famous painting of Aphrodite being born from the ocean (I forget who painted it, I want to say it's also Michaelangelo?) aren't considered pornographic even though David's naked and Aphrodite's boobs are right out there for all to see.  Any kid can walk into the museum where those are displayed and look at them because they're considered to be works of art with important cultural value.  So there is some precedent for distinguishing between violence/nudity that has artistic value and that which is gratuitious.  



Lightysnake said:


> The bill explicitly adds the definition that 'restrictable' content includes: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” Basically, anything sexual in nature.
> 
> The confusion has arisen cause the way ANN quoted that particular definition from Kanemitsu's blog with simply "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order." And not making it clear its referring to sexual behavior. That has lead people to believe anything that could be consider disruptive (anarchy, rebellion, crime, etc) to be targeted, when its not.



My guess would be that the exception for "real life pictures or footage" is meant to keep news media from being restricted--videos or pictures of violence occurring during a war, for example.  Anyway, it sounds like this really isn't as bad as it initially looked.  It really seems to just be targeting depictions of rape, pedophilia, and i*c*st.  So Naruto throwing FRS's around and Tsunade having boobs the size of beach balls should be fine, but Kishi might be in trouble if he decides to draw Madara raping Tsunade or something.



Inuhanyou said:


> Of course there wouldn't be bans left and right if there was compliance, but with several publishers already voicing support for ignoring the law completely and putting in whatever it is regardless, your damn right we're going to see shit hit the fan.



TBH, in a contest between a city government and multiple large corporations, I'd put my money on the corporations.  Big companies tend to have armies of lawyers that they can throw at any laws they don't like.



Inuhanyou said:


> \nless every publisher and animation studio gets up and moves to like, Hokkaido or some shit within the next 6 months ,there's no way they wouldn't be effected atleast in some way



That's actually a pretty common response of corporations to laws that would affect their bottom line.  They tell the government, "Change the law or we leave and take all the jobs we're providing to your constituents with us."


----------



## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> well you see for the vast majority of the posters here manga/anime is probably a bigger part of their lives than the "world news" posted in other threads. We all like to debate and talk about crisises around the world, but really, how many of us are affected by the sudanese crisis or the palestinian conflict or terrorist attacks in sweden? Whereas just about everyone here has dabbled in manga/anime at least once. Heck the fact that we are wasting our lives posting on a forum NAMED after a manga character means that for those of you who havent touched manga or anime before,  if you are a frequent poster on these boards, manga/anime has indirectly influenced your life.
> 
> Big shit that happens but doesnt influence your life < little shit that happens and influences your life



And they called me selfish. Its more selfish to not worry about large crises that can't effect you than small ones that do.


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 15, 2010)

Akatsuki210 said:


> That's actually a good thing.  The idea of "artistic merit" is why things like Michaelangelo's _David_ or that famous painting of Aphrodite being born from the ocean (I forget who painted it, I want to say it's also Michaelangelo?) aren't considered pornographic even though David's naked and Aphrodite's boobs are right out there for all to see.  Any kid can walk into the museum where those are displayed and look at them because they're considered to be works of art with important cultural value.  So there is some precedent for distinguishing between violence/nudity that has artistic value and that which is gratuitious.



Artistic merit can mean whatever they want it to mean. Something we see as artistic merit can be thrown out the window by them. They're just saying that to cover their asses when it really doesn't mean anything. And just because something has no real merit doesn't mean it should be censored. Arguably, no mild fanservice has 'artistic merit', so should all of it be censored? Is blood covered under 'artistic merit' in a shounen?

What we think has artistic value isn't necessarily what they think. There have been issues with David's nudity in many countries over the centuries.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

I like how everyone assumes this will be the worst case scenario in every example.


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## emROARS (Dec 15, 2010)

I can see guys in dark street corners with the hoods up selling ecchi 
They then run when they hear the coppers. 
Or shoot someone when they don't give them their hentai. 



Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And they called me selfish. Its more selfish to not worry about large crises that can't effect you than small ones that do.



I think I love you for this. I've been trying to tell this guy in my class this for over a month.


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## Stalin (Dec 15, 2010)

We don't want our hobbies affected in a negative way. It'd like censoring books or movies.


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Dec 15, 2010)

The Cheat said:


> We don't want our hobbies affected in a negative way. It'd like censoring books or movies.


No its like adding a strict rating system to books and movies and movies are already censored. MPAA.



emROARS said:


> I think I love you for this. I've been trying to  tell this guy in my class this for over a month.



Awesome then. Totally worth it.


----------



## Stalin (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> No its like adding a strict rating system to books and movies and movies are already censored. MPAA.
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome then. Totally worth it.



Something akin to that is fine as long as it doesn't stifle the creativity of future manga that have the potential to be good.


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## pikachuwei (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And they called me selfish. Its more selfish to not worry about large crises that can't effect you than small ones that do.



you assume that i dislike being called selfish

its only human nature to be selfish, i can proudly say that i care more about my ecchi than x number of africans dying every day, or that y banks take bazillions of money off us every year.

oh and in case this hasnt been said, the ban has passed the final vote D=


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 15, 2010)

Akatsuki210 said:


> That's actually a good thing.  The idea of "artistic merit" is why things like Michaelangelo's _David_ or that famous painting of Aphrodite being born from the ocean (I forget who painted it, I want to say it's also Michaelangelo?) aren't considered pornographic even though David's naked and Aphrodite's boobs are right out there for all to see.  Any kid can walk into the museum where those are displayed and look at them because they're considered to be works of art with important cultural value.  So there is some precedent for distinguishing between violence/nudity that has artistic value and that which is gratuitious.



The core problem is that it is impossible to actually determine accurately what has artistic merit and what hasn't, because artistic merit is basically impossible to accurately define.


----------



## Alchemist73 (Dec 15, 2010)

Munak said:


> I dunno, dem boobies?
> 
> But seriously, I like Fairy Tail.



This made me laugh.


----------



## 王志鍵 (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> And they called me selfish. Its more selfish to not worry about large crises that can't effect you than small ones that do.


Many of us feel this bill is a restriction to free speech.


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## Pringer Lagann (Dec 15, 2010)

Cardboard Tube Knight said:


> You guys are treating this shit like they're controlling the news or something when its a bunch of comics *and vidya* your all ready to riot over. It just seems like too much fight for a hardly important issue.


Fixed for accuracy....


If the line isn't drawn here, then where.


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## Razgriez (Dec 15, 2010)

Eh I can live with it since its destroying so many NF member's lives it seems.


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## H a r u (Dec 16, 2010)

Wow.... :/

Oh well, dun really care tbh.


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## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 16, 2010)

Look most of the members here are adults we shouldn't have to be told where to go to buy our seinen manga's just because some 12 year olds parent in Tokyo can't tell the difference between a T-Rated Manga and an 18+ Rated Manga.


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## Bender (Dec 16, 2010)

Seriously, when will bitches like these realize that it's impossible to completely rid society of all traces of violence and sex completely? It's only going to make people more curiouser and want to explore it further. I mean this is Japan they allow you to buy panties in a vending machine. Ahem, attention Japanese feminist we all have a loony streak in us. Me and that includes YOU. Moral ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) I swear. Do your itty bitty minds realize how greatly you are wrecking your industry? No of course not because you're too busy bitching about perverse material which you should be able to prevent from being exposed to children. It's PATHETIC.

"Masahiko Ibaraki, the editor-in-chief of Shueisha's third editorial department, added to the new manga creators, "Don't let the chilling effect [of increased regulation] stop you from doing material you want to do. Jump will feature anything [we feel] that is exciting [to read]."

Well, at least some manga companies have some backbone, lets hope that it lasts.

This move is absolutely ridiculous. While I agree that their argument is valid and I wouldn't want 8 year olds watching Yosuga no Sora, this kind of vague, far-reaching ban will only serve to cripple the industry in a time when it and Japan's economy are being stretched to the limit. Its like deciding that you want to get rid of the bugs in your garden, so you burn the whole thing to the ground. Yes, it works, but what the heck are you left with?


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## Bender (Dec 16, 2010)

If the lawmakers were really concerned about the well-being of the youth, as the bill is titled so, they probably would have approached the publishers in working out some rating system, rather than trying to nuke the whole scene with the heavy hand of the law. Rating systems have worked well enough for video games and movies.
The law itself sounds innocuous at first glance, but forcing things the gray area into the 18-and-over category would be an indirect form of censorship. Though there is a market for 18-and-over hardcore porn comics, it’s naturally nowhere as big a market as the mainstream market, and so things published in that category would never sell as well. Publishers would naturally be reluctant to publish works falling into that category in the first place. This is very similar to the ESRB AO rating being an effective death sentence to games.

The way the law tends to be applied in Japan, is that there are vague overarching laws enacted that tend to cover most anything, and then is selectively applied at the discretion of the law enforcement agents. Not exactly a fool-proof method and it has its failings (as would be expected), but trying to write an elaborate fool-proof legal code has its faults too, and Japan’s way does work as long as people are sensible about things and exercise common sense.
For this bill, Governor Ishihara as well as many people pushing for this bill have long expressed prejudiced views, hostility towards anime/manga, and fairly explicit wishes to exterminate anything they deem unfit. No doubt their views would heavily affect the enforcement of the law if once passed, and this is why there is such an uproar.


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## Razgriez (Dec 16, 2010)

Haha... Curiouser... Would you look at that. I guess it is a legitimate word. It just sounds really silly especially in context.


----------



## Danchou (Dec 16, 2010)

There goes Negima.


----------



## pikachuwei (Dec 17, 2010)

for anyone still doubting Ishihara's intentions...



> Tokyo’s governor Shintaro Ishihara has accused manga fans of being “abnormal” and having “corrupt DNA,” whilst condemning sexually explicit manga as “causing harm without a single benefit.”
> 
> His comments were made at a recent press conference, in which he sought to justify his support of the ban by rambling about genetic defectives:
> 
> ...



nice to know that i have corrupt DNA


----------



## Adagio (Dec 17, 2010)

H a r u said:


> Wow.... :/
> 
> Oh well, dun really care tbh.



NO MORE POKEMANS FOR YOU!


----------



## Viciousness (Dec 17, 2010)

^^ sounds like he's the one with the defect if you read the plots of his demented works...



Zero™ said:


> Those fuckers best not mess with my Berserk and Gantz



Seriously and Baki. Seinen is the best. The big 3, FT, and HNI aint enough to hold me until HxH comes back.

this guy reminds me of this asshole: 
probably friends

Oddly enough both of them ranked in the top 25 of a poll on the top 100 most influential japanese. Meanwhile Miyazaki is 19th Oda is 50th and Toriyama 75th:


----------



## Qhorin Halfhand (Dec 17, 2010)

> When it was pointed out to him that when he was criticised during the 1972 publication of his own novel “Shinjitsu no Seikyouiku” (“True Sex Education”) he defended himself by saying “Literature of any kind does not lead children to commit crime or cause juvenile delinquency,” he merely responded that “I was wrong.”



Seems like a hypocrite to me. Maybe he doesn't believe in what he is preaching and he is doing it for the votes.



pikachuwei said:


> nice to know that i have corrupt DNA



I wonder what kind words he would have about this forum...


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## Kαrin (Dec 17, 2010)

That Ishihara sure is one big hypocrite...


----------



## Gino (Dec 17, 2010)

lol this shit is getting better and better at this rate he's going to destroy the bill with his own mouth


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 17, 2010)

News Alert - Studio Pierrot eruptes into an inferno 2 hours ago more as its released...


----------



## Griever (Dec 17, 2010)

Ishihara is indeed a hypocrite as well as a parasite... he is by far the most harmful influence to the japanese youth. unlike manga and anime he is a real figure who is in a high place in the japanese government, he should learn to watch his tongue.


----------



## Morcombe (Dec 17, 2010)

some people on this forum really are ignorant.

from what i can tell sex, violence and crime will no longer be available to under 18s, that means that these categories include these sub genres.

Sex: Cleavage, boobs, nipples, panty shots, intercourse, the towel scene, the beach episode, the swimsuit scene, (the other stuff usually only found in hentai like fetish, rape, loli)

Crime: Robbery, Murder, spying, kidnapping, any other kind of crime u can think of.

Violence: a punch, a kick, a fight, weapons of any kind.

these are all now banned in anything under 18 and most of the sex category stuff is only in hentai.

all of the big 3 would now be banned.
so that means one piece which features crimes and fighting is now banned.
Naruto which features weapons like kunai and under age characters in wars is now banned.
Bleach features sword fighting and underage characters in battle so thats banned.

and this effects every manga.

lets take it out of japan now and apply this to america and the fact that it would effect every kind of american fiction.

imagine readings spider-man, superman or batman with no crime and the heroes cant punch the bad guy.

imagine watching sci-fi series like star trek and star wars and they cant have any lazer guns or light sabers.

imagine watching csi and you cant see any of the crimes they are trying to solve.

your telling me that if you are 16 or 17 years old u still cannot see all this stuff and the only anime and manga u can read or watch are only those suitable for small children around the age of 4 or 5.

it's like taking the movies system and having only two ratings of 'G' and '18+'

so anyone sitting there saying as long as it doesn't effect my series i don't care then too bad because it effects EVERY single series ever made.

from what i can gather the manags have 3 choices.
1. cancelled
2. Turn G rated, how exactly would u finish naruto without killing madara or hurting him in anyway.
3. Turn into 18+ and become a more matured themed story and be sold in the adult section but lose the majority of your japanese fan base costing the author and publishers money.

or am i just being delusional?


----------



## vjpowell (Dec 17, 2010)

Tokyo isn't banning Anime/Manga just restricting the more adult theme ones.


----------



## 王志鍵 (Dec 17, 2010)

vjpowell said:


> Tokyo isn't banning Anime/Manga just restricting the more adult theme ones.


The bill is so vague, the Tokyo government has the power to restrict anything they deem as "harmful" at this point.


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## Blue_Panter_Ninja (Dec 17, 2010)

Fuck,how do I get my Hentai mangas/doujins then?


----------



## Palpatine (Dec 17, 2010)

Japan


----------



## Butō Rengoob (Dec 17, 2010)

This is such bullshit. Can't believe it's gone through, might as well say good-bye to freedom of expression. So many Anime series and Manga are gonna turn to shit because of this bill.


----------



## Terra Branford (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't understand taking the crime out of the manga. What if someone comes up with a Cop manga and they want to show the crime? Or maybe a boxing manga/anime with lotsa blood and violence and death? 

....

Clicking the link and looking to the right probably shows why its being removed. That sight doesn't even have a warning up  I didn't want to see a woman having her nipples bitten by squirrels or a man holding a sword to a naked woman in a tub or Kinect being a pervert software. :/

The title of the thread is very misleading. Even if they were banning the adult themes, it doesn't ban anime or manga, just the adult ones.

It should be: "Tokyo Erotic/Adult Anime/Manga ban passed"


----------



## PikaCheeka (Dec 18, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> for anyone still doubting Ishihara's intentions...
> 
> LONG QUOTE ABOUT ISHIHARA.
> 
> nice to know that i have corrupt DNA



You could technically make the argument that word-only literature is more dangerous than lit with pics, as it forces the reader to use their imagination more in terms of visuals. 

Even just by reading those descriptions, the images in my mind were far more disturbing than most 18+ hentai pics I've seen. It's all just elitist bullshit is what it is. He writes novels, which he deems to be a 'high art', even though most novels are complete garbage (his sound like they fall under this category) and therefore all other forms of art, manga included, suck, even though there are plenty of manga series out there that are quite brilliant. 

Eh. I'd rather have 'corrupt DNA' than whatever the fuck he has if it means I'm reading Naruto and Gundam while he writes lurid rape fantasies.


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## Bender (Dec 18, 2010)

Ishihara= The japanese version of America's demented Rethugs

Dumbing down his country and going soccer mom and over controlling eccentric patronizing twit.


----------



## Mist Puppet (Dec 18, 2010)

The fact that he's written some crazy rape stuff makes this hilarious.


----------



## Jonghyun (Dec 18, 2010)

MAIII FAIRY TEIRUUU


----------



## Kankurette (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't think it affects Naruto, does it? Or most shounen.

Also, what a hypocritical bellend Ishihara is. So stuff like, say, Black Lagoon is evil and wrong but novels about graphic rape are totally cool? I could live with it a bit more if he didn't have such ridiculous double standards. As for his comments about manga and anime fans - yes, some anime fans are dirty old men or sad otaku, but a lot of us are actually, shockingly, normal people. With jobs and friends and other interests. Stop the press. And I agree with PikaCheeka - I'd rather stick with Bleach, Sailor Moon, One Piece etc. and have 'corrupt DNA' (lol, sciencefail) than read some sick rape fantasy crap.


----------



## Munak (Dec 18, 2010)

I have corrupt DNA. 

But at least on this particular subject I'm not a hypocrite.


----------



## Hellrasinbrasin (Dec 18, 2010)

I read the Book of Five Rings and The Art of War are you saying my genes are predestined to Tactical thinking...?

Yes... I love my Genes you can't have them never will never can...

But for everyone else:
YOU CAN'T FIGHT YOUR GENES its FATE!!


----------



## Nodonn (Dec 18, 2010)

> A group of youths kidnap a mentally retarded girl whom they brutally rape and keep as a sex slave. After failing to sell her to a brothel, they dispose of her by throwing her off a cliff.



Stay classy Ishihara.


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## Mist Puppet (Dec 18, 2010)

> A group of youths kidnap a mentally retarded girl whom they brutally rape and keep as a sex slave. After failing to sell her to a brothel, they dispose of her by throwing her off a cliff.



Much more suitable for children.


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## Soda (Dec 20, 2010)

The governor of Tokyo seems like a real dick. 

I don't get why they'd do this to Shounen, doesn't the HST (and other manga) make copious amounts of money for EVERYBODY?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Dec 20, 2010)

Maybe now Tokyo will produce something besides crustier versions of american comics. Yes, I did just take a shot at manga. Get mad at it.


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## Xion (Dec 20, 2010)

Nodonn said:


> Stay classy Ishihara.



Psychologically when you write something that extreme, there usually is a part of you that would like to engage in that activity, but might not in a civilized society.

So I could totally see him as a rapist or Ewe Boll as a mass shooter or something to that effect.


----------



## strongarm85 (Dec 20, 2010)

Terra Branford said:


> I don't understand taking the crime out of the manga. What if someone comes up with a Cop manga and they want to show the crime? Or maybe a boxing manga/anime with lotsa blood and violence and death?
> 
> ....
> 
> ...



It doesn't ban those either. Instead it allows them to reclassify Anime and Manga as adult material.


----------



## kazuri (Dec 20, 2010)

Xion said:


> Psychologically when you write something that extreme, there usually is a part of you that would like to engage in that activity, but might not in a civilized society.
> 
> So I could totally see him as a rapist or Ewe Boll as a mass shooter or something to that effect.



Psychologically you would be wrong. Anyone can write about anything without wanting to do it. There are MANY reasons to write about something you wouldn't want to really do.


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## Kira Yamato (Dec 26, 2010)

*Dōjinshi Created About Tokyo Youth Ordinance Amendment*
​


> Manga creator Takeshi Nogami (Sailor-fuku to Jūsensha, Panzer fr?ulein ALTESEISEN), anime writer and setting advisor Takaaki Suzuki (Strike Witches, Last Exile), and translator Dan Kanemitsu (new Evangelion films, Love Hina) are collaborating on a dōjinshi (self-published work) about the recently passed amendment to Tokyo's Youth Healthy Development Ordinance.
> 
> Saru Demo Wakaru To-Jōrei Taisaku ~Monkey Business~ (An Idiot's Guide to Tokyo's Harmful Books Regulation) will be available at Comic Market 78 on December 31 at the Tokyo Big Sight event complex. The Japanese/English book will also be available from Amazon Japan.
> 
> ...


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 26, 2010)

There isn't much to worry about. Nothing much will really change. Current mangas are safe. Seinen will get sheet wrapped. Current animes are safe.


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## God Movement (Dec 26, 2010)

.........


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## Mist Puppet (Dec 26, 2010)

Killer Yamato said:


> *Dōjinshi Created About Tokyo Youth Ordinance Amendment*
> ​



Looking forward to seeing this.


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## Coteaz (Dec 26, 2010)

Ahahahaha

Too bad pedos

Too bad


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 27, 2010)

Coteaz said:


> Ahahahaha
> 
> Too bad pedos
> 
> Too bad



Uhhh what?

Can you elaborate on that?

This law has NOTHING to do with adult oriented material. It affects material that targets minors. Porn is basically unaffected.


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## Sword Sage (Dec 27, 2010)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> Uhhh what?
> 
> Can you elaborate on that?
> 
> This law has NOTHING to do with adult oriented material. It affects material that targets minors. Porn is basically unaffected.



Thats not what I read.

Its effected on Porn and all adult material.


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## dummy plug (Dec 27, 2010)

im not into Loli anyway but the others...


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Dec 27, 2010)

The source is biased. When is see the BBC article about this. It's not so bad. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11998385


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## hehey (Dec 27, 2010)

Le Mâle Dominant said:


> The source is biased. When is see the BBC article about this. It's not so bad.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11998385


dude, that BBC article is a crappy summary of events that barely tells you anything at all.


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## Sword Sage (Dec 27, 2010)

Wall Street Journal will give you better info.



Its mainly about censoring adult manga.


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## hehey (Dec 27, 2010)

^^Yeah, unlike those BBC losers those Wall Street Journal guys actually know how to write an informative article.


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## Le Mâle-Pensant (Dec 27, 2010)

It's against Lolicon....i don't like lolicon so i don't care.


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## Raiden (Dec 27, 2010)

It's too strict. The loli I can understand.


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## KyuubiFan (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree with the ban of loli, but it's a bit too much.


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## Mist Puppet (Dec 27, 2010)

I remember reading something about a loli ban a while back (in the KL-2). Is this what they were talking about, or are they trying again?


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## Fruits Basket Fan (Dec 27, 2010)

Lolicon is gross....but it still bothers me how some countries try to put people in court over their loli collections and saying that it is the same as child pornography (like that Iowa man) .....


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Dec 28, 2010)

whats stopping Japanese manga and anime producers from simply producing the stuff in say the US or something...and marketing it to foreign audiences..to get around the ban they can still make a fuckton of money in the offshores fans


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## lovelycessa (Dec 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> Fuck


well, they do have a point.... if we don't want our kids to see homosexuality on either manga/anime, why make them watch the same thing showing killings and murder and all that stuff?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Dec 28, 2010)

lovelycessa said:


> well, they do have a point.... if we don't want our kids to see homosexuality on either manga/anime, why make them watch the same thing showing killings and murder and all that stuff?


Guys, again, sankukucomplex is exaggerating things, and we don't have anything to worry about.


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## Bender (Dec 28, 2010)

Killer Yamato said:


> *Dōjinshi Created About Tokyo Youth Ordinance Amendment*
> ​
> 
> 
> ...




Looking forward very

VERY much


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## Bleach (Dec 28, 2010)

Either way it's "Fuck" worthy.


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## Juice (Dec 28, 2010)

That sucks.


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## Citizen Bismarck (Dec 28, 2010)

> Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed ?a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography? on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged



So "harmful" manga/anime will be banned and owning child porn will be allowed?


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## Alexdhamp (Dec 28, 2010)

So..does this only affect anime/manga and games? What about other forms of literature? Hell, some manga series are even based on novels and light novels(Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, for example). Will this bill affect normal literature, too? If not, then why only affect the medium that brings in shitloads of money? Idiots..


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Dec 29, 2010)

Matrix XZ said:


> Wall Street Journal will give you better info.
> 
> 
> 
> Its mainly about censoring adult manga.





Le M?le Dominant said:


> It's against Lolicon....i don't like lolicon so i don't care.



Uhm no. It has NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. ADULT. MANGA.

The ordinance makes it illegal to sell certain material to minors. Adult material is already illegal to sell to minors, but these regulations widen the definition of what is considered "adult" material.


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## Sword Sage (Dec 29, 2010)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> Uhm no. It has NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. ADULT. MANGA.
> 
> The ordinance makes it illegal to sell certain material to minors. Adult material is already illegal to sell to minors, but these regulations widen the definition of what is considered "adult" material.



Yes it does had to do with the Adult Manga. You don't know what was in Japan, they didn't have any laws of restricting adult manga to minors. They didn't have any regulation of adult manga in Japan as we do in U.S.A. 

Are you not reading right?

Because the way I read its about something about Pornography Manga/anime and games.

Something like Rape, i*c*st and other hardcore sexual things.


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## Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (Jan 1, 2011)

Matrix XZ said:


> Yes it does had to do with the Adult Manga. You don't know what was in Japan, they didn't have any laws of restricting adult manga to minors. They didn't have any regulation of adult manga in Japan as we do in U.S.A.
> 
> Are you not reading right?
> 
> ...



You're not reading right, or your sources are wrong.

It's a law that regulates what is allowed to be sold to minors, but it does not restrict what adults can get their hands on. Hence it does not restrict material like for example pornography. Adults can still get it.


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## Sword Sage (Jan 1, 2011)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki said:


> You're not reading right, or your sources are wrong.
> 
> It's a law that regulates what is allowed to be sold to minors, but it does not restrict what adults can get their hands on. Hence it does not restrict material like for example pornography. Adults can still get it.



I am reading right and the sources were not wrong!

Its law is about restricting sexual eplicts such as Rape, Incests, and other extreme sex contents from Minors!


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## the hokage of lol (Jan 2, 2011)

does this enclude naruto will naruto be banned please answer me!


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## Sword Sage (Jan 2, 2011)

the hokage of lol said:


> does this enclude naruto will naruto be banned please answer me!



The Answer is *NO*!

There is no way for anime series like Naruto being banned for no good reason.


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## Coteaz (Jan 2, 2011)

the hokage of lol said:


> does this enclude naruto will naruto be banned please answer me!


I'm afraid so - you'll have to find another form of shitty entertainment.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 2, 2011)

Coteaz said:


> I'm afraid so - you'll have to find another form of shitty entertainment.


Can you please stop trolling. Seriously, all your posts are just insulting other posters. Why even bother to join a Naruto site when you're not even a Naruto fan?

None of the current Shonen will be affected, hell, the publishers can chose to ignore this ordinance and continue publishing since its SELF-REGULATED.


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## the hokage of lol (Jan 2, 2011)

Matrix XZ said:


> The Answer is *NO*!
> 
> There is no way for anime series like Naruto being banned for no good reason.


yay!



SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Can you please stop trolling. Seriously, all your posts are just insulting other posters. Why even bother to join a Naruto site when you're not even a Naruto fan?
> 
> None of the current Shonen will be affected, hell, the publishers can chose to ignore this ordinance and continue publishing since its SELF-REGULATED.


yay!



Coteaz said:


> I'm afraid so - you'll have to find another form of shitty entertainment.


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## Satsuki (Jan 2, 2011)

This is actually really shitty for economy, manga is a huge industry :/ It's only in Tokyo at least, right?


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## Ino Yamanaka (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow, that's just weird and sad...


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## GrimaH (Jan 2, 2011)

> The current ordinance already prevents the sale and renting of "harmful publications" ? materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" ? to people under the age of 18. Tokyo's Bill 156 will expand the definition of "harmful publications"; the industry will now regulate "manga, anime, and other images" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" certain sexual or pseudo sexual acts. The government can also directly regulate these images if the depicted acts are also "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order" such as rape.



They're banning fap material... in Japan. That alone is cause for a national revolt.


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## reaperunique (Jan 2, 2011)

read the fucking text



> The current ordinance already prevents the sale and renting of "harmful publications" — materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" — to people under the age of 18. Tokyo's Bill 156 *will expand* the definition of "harmful publications";



EXPAND the already excisting law.

And it's Tokyo government not all of Japan.

And it's not through yet:


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## GrimaH (Jan 2, 2011)

You might want to redirect that facepalm at yourself.

They were banning from under-18s explicit sexual media before. They're now banning all manga/anime that "unjustifiably glorify/exaggerate" any suggestive acts.
Which could be anything, when we consider the breadth of possible sexual fetishes this particular country has.
So yes, banning fap material. As opposed to only banning _*explicit*_ fap material before.


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## Daenerys Stormborn (Jan 2, 2011)

Even the term "banning" is a misnomer, since they're not actually banning anything--they're just saying it can't be sold to people under 18, similar to how you can't buy things like Playboy magazine if you're under 18 here.


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## Xion (Jan 2, 2011)

Anybody who says something to the effect of "I don't like X, so it has nothing to do with me and I don't care if it is wrong" needs to DIAF.


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## Talon. (Jan 2, 2011)

its a good thing that they wont be banning Tokusatsu


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## JellyButter (Jan 2, 2011)

This thread , somehow makes me wanna cry ?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 2, 2011)

GrimaH said:


> You might want to redirect that facepalm at yourself.
> 
> They were banning from under-18s explicit sexual media before. They're now banning all manga/anime that "unjustifiably glorify/exaggerate" any suggestive acts.
> Which could be anything, when we consider the breadth of possible sexual fetishes this particular country has.
> So yes, banning fap material. As opposed to only banning _*explicit*_ fap material before.


Nothing is being banned. 




> Bill 156
> 
> After the original bill's defeat, Tokyo governor Shintarō Ishihara announced his intent to submit a new revision later in the year.[5] This revision, informally referred to as Bill 156, was submitted by the government in November 2010.[6] It removed the controversial "non-existent youth" term but still proposed a number of significant changes to the law:[7]
> 
> ...


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## Arinna (Jan 3, 2011)

SO they're banning Loli, gay, sexually explicit and violence.....

Hmmm Naruto would fall into the gay and violence category would it ?


Seriously though, this bill is not going to work. Anime and manga is such a part of Japan's economy you know.


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## Amrun (Jan 3, 2011)

24 pages for a bill that means nothing and does nothing.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 3, 2011)

arinna2007 said:


> SO they're banning Loli, gay, sexually explicit and violence.....
> 
> Hmmm Naruto would fall into the gay and violence category would it ?
> 
> ...



Did you misread what I put down by the bill? It does NONE of that, maybe Loli, but NOTHING ELSE.


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## Gino (Jan 3, 2011)

This thread still exists....


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (Jan 3, 2011)

Gino said:


> This thread still exists....


Mostly because of the jerk pages earlier who was spreading fear mongering.


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## Mider T (Jan 3, 2011)

Western NF members making more of a ruckus than kids in Japan affected


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## Cardboard Tube Knight (Jan 3, 2011)




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## Amrun (Jan 3, 2011)




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