# Greed Vs wolverine...



## Red (Nov 4, 2006)

Greed(full metal alchemist) vs wolverine my money is on greed....


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## Crimson King (Nov 4, 2006)

Adimantium>Carbon

'nuff said.


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## Orion (Nov 4, 2006)

my money is on wolverine his claws could cut through greeds armor im betting and hes no slouch in speed ect either he would keep killing greed till his stone wears out.


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## Darklyre (Nov 4, 2006)

There isn't a thing Greed can do to kill Wolverine, while Wolverine can cut right through Greed's armor like it wasn't even there.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

Ummm wtf? You guys are talking like Wolverine is suddenly has the muscle strength to stab his claws through Greed's armour

Wolverine couldn't even make a small cut in the Thing for goodness sake, how the hell does he cut something far tougher?

If Logan did try as hard as he could he _might_ make a small dint but he'll also jar his arm an incredible amount


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Ummm wtf? You guys are talking like Wolverine is suddenly has the muscle strength to stab his claws through Greed's armour
> 
> Wolverine couldn't even make a small cut in the Thing for goodness sake, how the hell does he cut something far tougher?
> 
> If Logan did try as hard as he could he _might_ make a small dint but he'll also jar his arm an incredible amount



........Um Adamantium is capable of peircing through the Hulk's skin. Im sure it can cut through carbon armor with relative ease. Wolverine takes this one.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

Your point?


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Your point?



well you said wolverine cant cut through greeds carbon armor. and i says it can. whats your point?


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

Did you read what I said? 

Until you do *and* understand it, stop being wrong


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Did you read what I said?
> 
> Until you do *and* understand it, stop being wrong



I still fail to see your point. Adamantium is capable of cutting through almost every known material. Arm strength makes no difference. If adamantium can cut through the hardest substances effortlessly then if wolverine put effort into his swing then he can cut through the carbon armor. It is the strongest alloy known to human science. that would include a carbon based substance. Adamantium has withstood assaults from Thor, the Hulk, Hercules, Namor the Sub-Mariner, and Thanos without sustaining damage. So adamantium > Carbon!


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## Gooba (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Wolverine couldn't even make a small cut in the Thing for goodness sake, how the hell does he cut something far tougher?


A) I think the Thing is far tougher.


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## Red (Nov 4, 2006)

actually nothing can cut through greads armour..and also he's healing powers pwns that of wolverines...he got his freaking head ripped off and it grew back..plus nobody said that greeds armour is carbon..it is an altrope of carbon i.e black diamond.......wolverine would be pwned..not easily..but pwned notheless...


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> actually nothing can cut through greads armour..and also he's healing powers pwns that of wolverines...he got his freaking head ripped off and it grew back..plus nobody said that greeds armour is carbon..it is an altrope of carbon i.e. black diamond...and nothing can break diamond except diamond....wolverine would be pwned..not easily..but pwned notheless...



Well black diamond is referred to as carbonado. And diamonds can be cut. Adamantium is harder than diamond. 

Wolverine's healing power > Greeds. Greed can not fight and regenerate at the same time. Wolverine has been ripped in half. His adamantium was ripped from his body. His been incinerated completely to his bones and still managed to regenerate himself. Not to mention, Sabretooth had his head removed and survived.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> I still fail to see your point. Adamantium is capable of cutting through almost every known material. Arm strength makes no difference. If adamantium can cut through the hardest substances effortlessly then if wolverine put effort into his swing then he can cut through the carbon armor. It is the strongest alloy known to human science. that would include a carbon based substance. Adamantium has withstood assaults from Thor, the Hulk, Hercules, Namor the Sub-Mariner, and Thanos without sustaining damage. So adamantium > Carbon!



Are you dim? Did you read my post? Are you saying that if a baby had adamantium claws then the baby could cut anything?

WOlverine doesn't have the physical strength to pierce diamond, someone with alot more body strength could probably do the job but not a peak human like Logan

Also how the hell does durability affect it's cutting ability? 



Gooba said:


> A) I think the Thing is far tougher.



Wait what? Are you saying the Thing is made out of something _tougher_ than diamond?



rocklee0036 said:


> Well black diamond is referred to as carbonado. And diamonds can be cut. Adamantium is harder than diamond.
> 
> Wolverine's healing power > Greeds. Greed can not fight and regenerate at the same time. Wolverine has been ripped in half. His adamantium was ripped from his body. His been incinerated completely to his bones and still managed to regenerate himself. Not to mention, Sabretooth had his head removed and survived.



Do you realize that what you've mentioned is what has happened to some homunculous and they've regend?

Envy has been cut in half and came back, Gluttony has had his head imploded a few times and he still came back


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## Red (Nov 4, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Well black diamond is referred to as carbonado. And diamonds can be cut. Adamantium is harder than diamond.
> 
> Wolverine's healing power > Greeds. Greed can not fight and regenerate at the same time. Wolverine has been ripped in half. His adamantium was ripped from his body. His been incinerated completely to his bones and still managed to regenerate himself. Not to mention, Sabretooth had his head removed and survived.


actually the only thing that can cut diamond is diamond it's self...and even at that the force applied has to be great greater than what a mutant like wolverine can supply...and logan doesnt have that kind of strenght and about healing powers..if wolverine gets his head cut off he's dead..if he gets he's head imploded he's dead...if he gets cut in half my dear friend he is dead as a door nail..very few things that you can do to a hormonculi(spelling?) to kill it without having it's original part and a very advanced alchmey circle...and for the sabertooth thing i wanna see proofO_o


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## Deleted member 45015 (Nov 4, 2006)

Wolverine needs the physical strength to force his blades through something of almost or equal strength to his blades. That takes a lot of power or a lot of momentum.

I hand it to Wolverine though as there's little Greed can do that will actually kill him.


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## Darklyre (Nov 4, 2006)

If Wolverine has been able to cut the Hulk before, Greed isn't gonna be nearly as bad. Adamantium >>>> diamond. Hell, diamond isn't even CLOSE to adamantium. There are non-cosmics that can break diamond easily. Those same people wouldn't even put a scratch on adamantium. Wolverine's regen >>>> Greed's, as well. Sure, Greed can eventually reheal himself from any injury. Wolverine wouldn't even fall down after a wound that would incapacitate Greed.

Also, about Wolverine's healing: You can't simply cut off his head. You have to remove it from his body otherwise it'll heal back. He has been ripped in half before, and survived. Also, Greed has nowhere near the amount of strength needed to bash Wolverine's head in.


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Are you dim? Did you read my post? Are you saying that if a baby had adamantium claws then the baby could cut anything?
> 
> WOlverine doesn't have the physical strength to pierce diamond, someone with alot more body strength could probably do the job but not a peak human like Logan
> 
> Also how the hell does durability affect it's cutting ability?



Are you mad? What is the point of bringing up the baby? Wolverine is obviously capable of applying enough force to peirce the armor. Wolverine is capable of lifting over 800lbs. He can peirce the Hulk's skin, in which the only kwown substance to ever do so is adamantium. 



Forte.EXE said:


> Do you realize that what you've mentioned is what has happened to some homunculous and they've regend?
> 
> Envy has been cut in half and came back, Gluttony has had his head imploded a few times and he still came back



How about you try reading my posts in its context. That was a reply to a claim that Greed's regen > Wolverine's. Therefore you are not bringing up any new points. If you dont have anything to mention that was not already said than you should not try and post acting like you have a totally original argument. 


			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> actually the only thing that can cut diamond is diamond it's self...and even at that the force applied has to be great greater than what a mutant like wolverine can supply...and logan doesnt have that kind of strenght and about healing powers..if wolverine gets his head cut off he's dead..if he gets he's head imploded he's dead...if he gets cut in half my dear friend he is dead as a door nail..very few things that you can do to a hormonculi(spelling?) to kill it without having it's original part and a very advanced alchmey circle...and for the sabertooth thing i wanna see proofO_o



Actually there are plenty of things in the comic world that can cut diamonds. The Hulk can crush them between his fingers. Wolverine can apply trendous force into his attacks. Actually wolverine has survived a complete separation of his body. And ultimate sabretooth was beheaded by wolverine only to return later with his head intact and a huge scar on his neck.


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## Red (Nov 4, 2006)

like I said before homoculi are invincible against anything unless the opponnent is skilled enough in alchemy to draw the complex sealing circle with the homuncli's(spelling?)original bits....unless wolverine has those he cant touch greed...and unless that I see proof that wolverine can break diamond then he cant.And please some one should show me proof of wolverine surviving having his head completely torn off from his body if you cant then greeds healing powers pwn that of wolverine...



EDIT:scientifically the classification of hardness is on a scale of 1-10..1 being the lowest and ten being the highest...guess where diamond is*cough*10...and another food for thought diamond's other name is adamant

EDIT2lus we know that wolverine finds it very difficult to cut something on the same level as adamantuim*cough*ladydeathstrike'sclaws*cough* so it is safe to assume he doesnt have the arm strenght to cut through diamond...


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> like I said before homoculi are invincible against anything unless the opponnent is skilled enough in alchemy to draw the complex sealing circle with the homuncli's(spelling?)original bits....unless wolverine has those he cant touch greed...and unless that I see proof that wolverine can break diamond then he cant.And please some one should show me proof of wolverine surviving having his head completely torn off from his body if you cant then greeds healing powers pwn that of wolverine...



Yes but that is not the argument at hand. It was if wolverine can cut through the armor. Besides he can still cut off his head. There is also dialogue in the manga that suggests the best way to kill a Homunculus is simply to kill them multiple times, or destroy the Philosopher's stone that is their 'heart'. Repeated beheadings is enough to kill him. And his regenerative powers slow each time he uses it.



> EDIT:scientifically the classification of hardness is on a scale of 1-10..1 being the lowest and ten being the highest...guess where diamond is*cough*10...and another food for thought diamond's other name is adamant



Why bring up the Moh's scale here. We are in the context of the comic world. In the Marvel Universe, Adamantium is the hardest substance known to human science, including diamond. Adamant does not = Adamantium *cough* 



> EDIT2lus we know that wolverine finds it very difficult to cut something on the same level as adamantuim*cough*ladydeathstrike'sclaws*cough* so it is safe to assume he doesnt have the arm strenght to cut through diamond...



......Um.......Adamantium can not cut Adamantium no matter how much force you put into it. And adamantium does not equal diamond so i dont see how the analogy here is even feasible.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Wait what? Are you saying the Thing is made out of something _tougher_ than diamond?


No, he's showing that you're incorrect in saying that Wolverine couldn't pierce the Thing's rock-like skin.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Are you mad? What is the point of bringing up the baby? Wolverine is obviously capable of applying enough force to peirce the armor. Wolverine is capable of lifting over 800lbs. He can peirce the Hulk's skin, in which the only kwown substance to ever do so is adamantium.



What Hulk comics have _you_ been reading? In Hulk: The End, each day he is eaten (intestines ripped out) but giant bugs. In Marvel Zombies, he's also a zombie and to turn into a zombie, you need to be beaten. That means teeth are able to pierce his skin

Hulk doesn't have the toughest hide, out of all the non cosmics, that probably goes to Juggs

Also do you know how diamond is normally cut? It isn't stabbed or slashed. It's *drilled* with a lots of power, now unless Wolverine can somehow turn his arm into a drill *AND* spin around for high periods of time, he's not going to pierce Greed



> How about you try reading my posts in its context. That was a reply to a claim that Greed's regen > Wolverine's. Therefore you are not bringing up any new points. If you dont have anything to mention that was not already said than you should not try and post acting like you have a totally original argument.



Greed's regen is better than Wolverines. Look at how long Logan takes to regen and how long Greed takes



> Actually there are plenty of things in the comic world that can cut diamonds. The Hulk can crush them between his fingers. Wolverine can apply trendous force into his attacks. Actually wolverine has survived a complete separation of his body. And ultimate sabretooth was beheaded by wolverine only to return later with his head intact and a huge scar on his neck.



God you're a frigging retard to think a metahuman like Logan can apply enough force to destroy diamond

Also I'll like to see a scan of Hulk breaking a diamond



> No, he's showing that you're incorrect in saying that Wolverine couldn't pierce the Thing's rock-like skin.



Then he posted a contradictory message as well. He wants to say Logan _can_ cut Thing by posting a picture of Logan stabbing Thing but Gooba says *I think Thing is tougher*

How does that make sense?


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## Gooba (Nov 4, 2006)

> Then he posted a contradictory message as well. He wants to say Logan can cut Thing by posting a picture of Logan stabbing Thing but Gooba says I think Thing is tougher


Umm, how doesn't that make sense.  If Wolverine can cut through the Thing, and the Thing is tougher than Greed, then Logan can cut Greed.  Pretty simple.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Nov 4, 2006)

While it would would last a while and Greed is as awsome as hell, Wolverine would still win


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

Gooba said:


> Umm, how doesn't that make sense.  If Wolverine can cut through the Thing, and the Thing is tougher than Greed, then Logan can cut Greed.  Pretty simple.



So you are saying the Thing is made out of a substance harder than diamond?


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

@ Forte.EXE

Actually it was colossus who was said is capable of crushing diamonds between his fingertips. Which means Hulk can pretty much do without effort. Colussus at his maximum can not even put the tiniest dent in adamantium which indicates that adamantium is harder than diamond by a tremendous margin. Hulk has one of the toughest hides known to the Marvel Universe, and adamantium can penetrate it. If any other substance could, im pretty sure it would have been used instead of adamantium. Again you are trying to compare real world standards (where adamantium does not exist) with the comic universe. Again it is stated fact that adamantium is the hardest substance known to human science, even more so than diamond. Far more stronger than diamond. 

Greed's regen gets slower after each usage, meaning several decapitations would do him in for good. Again i state; There is dialogue in the manga that suggests the best way to kill a Homunculus is simply to kill them multiple times, or destroy the Philosopher's stone that is their 'heart'.

The first volume of Ultimate X-men, Jean states Colossus can crush diamonds between his fingertips.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> @ Forte.EXE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Darklyre (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:
			
		

> So since when in comics does a>b + b>c = a>c? If you want to go by that logic then Squirrel Girl can *easily* beat Hulk since she easily beat Thanos and Thanos beat Hulk and Thing



She probably could.


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## Shidoshi (Nov 4, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> So since when in comics does a>b + b>c = a>c? If you want to go by that logic then Squirrel Girl can *easily* beat Hulk since she easily beat Thanos and Thanos beat Hulk and Thing


If she beat Thanos physically, then she probably could do the same to Hulk.



> _Where was it ever stated he had one of the toughest hides? Most other weaker heavy hitters probably have harder hides (like Colossus and Thing)_


Early incarnations of the Hulk states that his skin wouldn't burst under an artillery shell, while relatively recent comics state that his skin isn't invulnerable (or, cosmically so), but that his healing factor healing his injuries gives him the appearance of having such invulnerability.

However, Wolverine would have trouble stabbing through the Hulk's flesh and musculature with his claws if he uses them like daggers, but would have no trouble using the razor edge to slice into him like a butcher does to a side of meat.



> _Adamantium isn't the hardest material in the Marvel verse. Get your facts straight_


The only thing known more durable than True Adamantium is Cap's shield, which Adamantium is based off of, and it's because of a function of Vibranium's properties that it could take more damage than Adamntium, although, the degree of difference in durability between the two isn't really known.  For all intents and purposes though, Adamantium is _regarded_ as one of the three most indestructible materials in the Marvel Universe, next to Cap's sheild and Mjolnir (and Mjolnir used with Thor's full might can only *slightly* dent a cylinder of Adamantium).

For what it's worth, I believe that Wolverine possesses enough strength to slice off pieces of Greed (rather than perpendicularly stabbing him, because that would require surpassing the strength of carbon's lattice covalent bonds to stab rather than "shave") because not only are his claws made of such durable metal, but they're also razor sharp.


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## Kinjishi (Nov 4, 2006)

> So since when in comics does a>b + b>c = a>c? If you want to go by that logic then Squirrel Girl can easily beat Hulk since she easily beat Thanos and Thanos beat Hulk and Thing



WOW! I definitely have to sig that. Thats a fact of life. However, fighting ability is completely different from raw strength. If colossus can crush diamonds and the Hulk is stronger than Colossus, then the Hulk can crush diamonds. Raw strength does not determine the victor in a battle. 

Squirrel Girl is a widely accepted as a joke. She has beaten insanely super oponents that would otherwise decimate her. If marvel decides that she should beat the hulk one day then so be it. Such a ridiculous analogy holds absolutely no merit.



> Where was it ever stated he had one of the toughest hides? Most other weaker heavy hitters probably have harder hides (like Colossus and Thing)



Thats a part of his power. He is shown withstanding the impact of high-caliber artillery shells, falls from orbital heights, and powerful energy blasts without sustaining injury and resisting extreme temperatures. His durability is enough to withstand nuclear blasts at ground zero without sustaining an injury. In addition, the Hulk's body regenerates damaged or destroyed areas of tissue at an accelerated rate.

Colossus and thing both have tough hides and they have both been cut by adamantium.



> Adamantium isn't the hardest material in the Marvel verse. Get your facts straight



How bout you seriously get your eyes fixed. I said that adamantium is the hardest substance known to human science not the entire marvel universe. Adamantium has withstood assaults from Thor, the Hulk, Hercules, and Thanos without sustaining damage. All of the above possess 100+ ton strentgh. 


> Second 'multiple' times generally consists of at least 17 times because that's how many times Wrath killed Greed and Greed still regend



...........Um and wolverine can do the same plus some. 


> Ultimate Colossus could easily manhandle 3 616 Colosus. That guy is probably the second toughest guy in the whole Ultimate universe right behind Hulk.



And so your point is what? That Colossus is strong and that the Hulk is stronger. Well, thats what I've been saying for some time now.


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## Red (Nov 4, 2006)

1.greeds regen powers pwn that of wolverine and if we try to use your method of killing him each time to reduce the amount of philosopher in him is a waste of time it's like trying to transferr the ocean using a cup....keep in mind the countless lives involved in making the philosophers stone
 and they dont eat one they eat several so inside their bodeis are millions of lives and since logan has to expand a large amount of arm strenght just to cut off a piece of greed,killing greed several millions of times would be tedious.....
2.all homunculi have large amounts of strenght 
*Spoiler*: __ 



the scene where envy is pissed of about his father honiehiem going to the other world punches pride until there is a medium sized crater in the ground....

and in the conquerer of shambala where wrath fights with uber gluttony..notice he had immense strenght after a few *crumbs* of the philosophers stone.....



so there fore greed has some strenght and skill (he had a little tossle with envy to prove this) to stand upto wolverines low level of martial arts(to my knowledge he relies on his claws to fight)
3. as for his shield it is stated to be an altrope of carbon but never is it said to be diamond but we do know that it is the strongest element in their universe keep in mind that nobody has pierced through it in its natural form only when it is reduced to it's base form is it weak so there is no reason what so ever to believe logans adamantuim is stronger than his carbon related substance..

plus you still havent brought up proof that logan has survived having his head,lower abodmen cut off or imploded(I want pics dammit)..and it has been stated that even logans healing powers are limited so it is safe to say that his regen powers are beaten by greeds..


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## Orion (Nov 4, 2006)

the things ur talking about arent the canon manga its the anime and the movie.and i still believe adamantium can cut thru carbon.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 4, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> WOW! I definitely have to sig that. Thats a fact of life. However, fighting ability is completely different from raw strength. If colossus can crush diamonds and the Hulk is stronger than Colossus, then the Hulk can crush diamonds. Raw strength does not determine the victor in a battle.



Which I still find hard to believe since Colossus isn't even in the top 5 heavy hitters. Kinda like Capt beating Iron Spidey



> Squirrel Girl is a widely accepted as a joke. She has beaten insanely super oponents that would otherwise decimate her. If marvel decides that she should beat the hulk one day then so be it. Such a ridiculous analogy holds absolutely no merit.



Wait, you said *THE* Squirrel Girl is a joke?



> Thats a part of his power. He is shown withstanding the impact of high-caliber artillery shells, falls from orbital heights, and powerful energy blasts without sustaining injury and resisting extreme temperatures. His durability is enough to withstand nuclear blasts at ground zero without sustaining an injury. In addition, the Hulk's body regenerates damaged or destroyed areas of tissue at an accelerated rate.



Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke.

And don't mention Maestro being killed by a nuke, that was stupid



> Colossus and thing both have tough hides and they have both been cut by adamantium.



All that means is that Adamantium is tougher than their skin



> How bout you seriously get your eyes fixed. I said that adamantium is the hardest substance known to human science not the entire marvel universe. Adamantium has withstood assaults from Thor, the Hulk, Hercules, and Thanos without sustaining damage. All of the above possess 100+ ton strentgh.



How about you learn more about the Marvel universe. Do you know what Captain America's shield is made out of?

I'll give you a hint; adamantium was an attempt to replicate Capt's shield. It failed



> ...........Um and wolverine can do the same plus some.



In a matter of seconds.

No he can't



> And so your point is what? That Colossus is strong and that the Hulk is stronger. Well, thats what I've been saying for some time now.



Which has no affect on this match up whatsoever, you did bring up the Colossus crushing diamond thing first



vlaaad12345 said:


> the things ur talking about arent the canon manga its the anime and the movie.and i still believe adamantium can cut thru carbon.



The manga has greater regen feats than the anime


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## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> the things ur talking about arent the canon manga its the anime and the movie.and i still believe adamantium can cut thru carbon.


I said greed as in both anime and manga no specifications dont hide behind canon


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## Orion (Nov 5, 2006)

was talking about what u said about envy and shambala.


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## Kisame. (Nov 5, 2006)

I agree with blue relik. 


IT would take a stupid amount of force to have wolverine pentrate Greed. AND EVEN IF HE DID. Greed would just heal himself. 

I dont think Greed has Anything to take Logan out tho so it would be a literal draw as they both live longer than normal as well.


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## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:
			
		

> Which I still find hard to believe since Colossus isn't even in the top 5 heavy hitters. Kinda like Capt beating Iron Spidey



I dont see your point here. You find it hard to believe what? That the Hulk is stronger than Colossus. 



> Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke.



Oh yes, anyone could tank a nuke. Thats just a common feat for any superhero. The fact that he gained his powers from gamma radiation has nothing to do with him withsatnding a nuclear explosion. Do you have any idea how much pressure and force is created in such an explosion. Energy produced by a nuclear explosive is millions of times more per gram than a conventional explosion and the temperatures reached are in the tens of millions of degrees. Yeah so tanking nukes is pretty special for anyone.



> All that means is that Adamantium is tougher than their skin



Well you yourself said that you thought Colossus and thing had tougher hides than the hulk and I pointed out that they got cut too. 



> How about you learn more about the Marvel universe. Do you know what Captain America's shield is made out of?
> 
> I'll give you a hint; adamantium was an attempt to replicate Capt's shield. It failed



Get your eyes checked, *SERIOUSLY!* Again I repeat, adamantium is the hardest substance known to *HUMAN *science! Vibranium is an *alien* metal found only in Wakanda, Africa. Asides from American steel, the other substance was an *unknown* catalyst. Therefore the exact makeup of Cap's sheild is unknown to human science. I know what the hell i'm talking about. 



			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> to stand upto wolverines low level of martial arts(to my knowledge he relies on his claws to fight)



Just so you know: During his time in Japan and other countries, Wolverine became a master of virtually all forms of martial arts and fighting, both armed and unarmed; as a samurai, he is especially skilled in the use of the katana. Wolverine is regarded as one of the finest hand to hand fighters in the Marvel Universe, able to defeat the likes of Shang-Chi and Captain America in single combat. He has a wide knowledge of the body and pressure points. Not to mention his training in Weapon X and the Danger Room.
Don't be fooled by his X-man movie interpretation. 



> plus you still havent brought up proof that logan has survived having his head,lower abodmen cut off or imploded(I want pics dammit)..and it has been stated that even logans healing powers are limited so it is safe to say that his regen powers are beaten by greeds..



Calm down. Just some of his regenerative feats:


We all know he survived this. And as a result his healing factor to was boosted "incredible levels" for a while.


His lower torso was tossed 4 miles from the rest of his body and he was able retrieve and regenerate it. 


Oh, yeah he survived that.

I cant find the Sabretooth one but he did survive a beheading.


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## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Nov 5, 2006)

Wolverine would have a hard time working the force to pierce Greed, and Greed cant do anything to Logan so whoever dies of boredom first loses


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> I dont see your point here. You find it hard to believe what? That the Hulk is stronger than Colossus.



Doesn't matter what I think because it doesn't pertain to the topic



> Oh yes, anyone could tank a nuke. Thats just a common feat for any superhero. The fact that he gained his powers from gamma radiation has nothing to do with him withsatnding a nuclear explosion. Do you have any idea how much pressure and force is created in such an explosion. Energy produced by a nuclear explosive is millions of times more per gram than a conventional explosion and the temperatures reached are in the tens of millions of degrees. Yeah so tanking nukes is pretty special for anyone.



You miss my point, I'm saying that Hulk in general is less affect by the affects of radiation because of his power



> Well you yourself said that you thought Colossus and thing had tougher hides than the hulk and I pointed out that they got cut too.



Which was an inane point since I don't actually doubt that if Wolverine can cut them now



> Get your eyes checked, *SERIOUSLY!* Again I repeat, adamantium is the hardest substance known to *HUMAN *science! Vibranium is an *alien* metal found only in Wakanda, Africa. Asides from American steel, the other substance was an *unknown* catalyst. Therefore the exact makeup of Cap's sheild is unknown to human science. I know what the hell i'm talking about.



Then how does this relate to the topic? I never denied that adamantium is far more durable than diamond. I do however debate Wolverine having the muscle needed to make a cut in it



> ust so you know: During his time in Japan and other countries, Wolverine became a master of virtually all forms of martial arts and fighting, both armed and unarmed; as a samurai, he is especially skilled in the use of the katana. Wolverine is regarded as one of the finest hand to hand fighters in the Marvel Universe, able to defeat the likes of Shang-Chi and Captain America in single combat. He has a wide knowledge of the body and pressure points. Not to mention his training in Weapon X and the Danger Room.
> Don't be fooled by his X-man movie interpretation.



I know just as much about Wolverine as you do. I know that he is in the top 5 (possibly 3) h2h fighters in the whole Marvel verse, he has defeated Shang Chi easily without adamantium as well as beating Captain AMerica. 

While I do not deny that Wolverine outclasses Greed in h2h, Greed himself is no slouch. Izumi Curtis went into the mountains when she was 18 and stayed there for a month with nothing but a knife and some simple clothes. At the end of that ordeal, she was able to chase down snow rabbits (something no human can do in snow) as well as effortlesly flipping over a grizzly bear

She's arguably one of the greatest FMA h2h fighters (one of the fastest and strongest). When she meets Greed, she pretty much sucker punches him when they're talking (she's easily faster than any normal human) but in the split second, Greed was able to react and get his shield up. He ain't weak himself



> Calm down. Just some of his regenerative feats:
> 
> 
> We all know he survived this. And as a result his healing factor to was boosted "incredible levels" for a while.



Didnn't kill him. Greed was killed (brain was skewed, neck was cut up) 16 times and he still regened in a matter of seconds. Logan took a long time to regen after what Magneto did to him and even then



> His lower torso was tossed 4 miles from the rest of his body and he was able retrieve and regenerate it.



Happened to Envy. He regend far quicker than Logan did as well



> Oh, yeah he survived that.



Something similar happened to Lust (though a weaker one blast), she regened within one page



> I cant find the Sabretooth one but he did survive a beheading.



Scar consistently implodes Gluttony's brain but he still comes back. That is undeniable proof that a homunculous can survive with their brain destroyed. There is no proof whatsoever that Logan can survive without a brain

If this was a battle to the death then Greed wins. He's lived for over 200 years and still had plenty of lives left in his stone. Logan had another 100 years tops


----------



## King Bookah (Nov 5, 2006)

Is there any known way to kill Wolverine?


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:
			
		

> Doesn't matter what I think because it doesn't pertain to the topic



Well obviously it does. If you believe that Colossus is stronger than the Hulk then you deserve no merit whatsoever. This to me indicates that much of what comes out your mouth is pure fiction.



> You miss my point, I'm saying that Hulk in general is less affect by the affects of radiation because of his power



No actually you just proved my point. Im saying that he was not affected because of the durability of his skin. I believe you said: "Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke." Obviously false. Again the gamma radiation has nothing to do with a nuclear explosion.



> Which was an inane point since I don't actually doubt that if Wolverine can cut them now



Concession accepted



> Then how does this relate to the topic? I never denied that adamantium is far more durable than diamond. I do however debate Wolverine having the muscle needed to make a cut in it



Do you have amnesia or something? What I said was a direct response to your statement:

"How about you learn more about the Marvel universe. Do you know what Captain America's shield is made out of? 

I'll give you a hint; adamantium was an attempt to replicate Capt's shield. It failed"

Stop trying to take my arguments out of context to make what you say seem correct. The adamantium claws can cut any known solid material except adamantium itself. It is this durability along with the claws razor sharpness that will allow wolverine to sufficiently cut through the armor.



> I know just as much about Wolverine as you do. I know that he is in the top 5 (possibly 3) h2h fighters in the whole Marvel verse, he has defeated Shang Chi easily without adamantium as well as beating Captain AMerica.
> 
> While I do not deny that Wolverine outclasses Greed in h2h, Greed himself is no slouch. Izumi Curtis went into the mountains when she was 18 and stayed there for a month with nothing but a knife and some simple clothes. At the end of that ordeal, she was able to chase down snow rabbits (something no human can do in snow) as well as effortlesly flipping over a grizzly bear
> 
> She's arguably one of the greatest FMA h2h fighters (one of the fastest and strongest). When she meets Greed, she pretty much sucker punches him when they're talking (she's easily faster than any normal human) but in the split second, Greed was able to react and get his shield up. He ain't weak himself



How about you *read* the name of the person that I was adressing. Again you prove to me that you have the reading skills of a 4 year old or that you are just not intelligent enough to recognize the context of my statements. I was clearly addressing _Blindpipe_ so I have no idea how you took offense to that statement. 

Well you yourself admitted Wolverine is a better h2h combatant than anyone from FMA so whats the point of bringing up Izumi Curtis and Greed's h2h fighting capabilities if he is clearly outmatched.


----------



## Renegade (Nov 5, 2006)

Greed has no chance of killing Wolverine, and Wolverine can just kill Greed enough times for him to die.

Wolverine ftw.


----------



## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

the magnito incident is nothing compared to when greed's head was cut off completely....the hulk picture shows that while homunculi heal any wound almost in an instant logan had to pitifully crawl four miles to pick up his other half before healing up....

 about the hand to hand combat while wolverine has been alive since the 1800 he has learned many skills and has traveled the land but on the side of greed who has been alive since the 1500's and traveled many lands before being trapped in an alchmey circle mastered way more techniques than logan in his short life of 206 years.....fort knows what he is talking about dont negelct the point 

about the pic with hulk tearing wolverines body in two that means with enough force you can break adamantium(if not how the hall did he tear the spinal cord) bbut no one has been known to physically break greeds skin
leme see you nod with me    
c'mon nod your head wit me  

NOTE:the conquerer of shambala is believed to be a canon part of the full metal alchemist series and also the true ending to the anime


----------



## Orion (Nov 5, 2006)

yea the hulk can break adamantium..hes the freaking hulk lol...not like greed is nearly as strong as him,and liquid adamantium is poisonous,getting that amount ripped out and regening is preety damm impressive.the point though is wolverines claws are so sharp and made out of adamantium that he would be able to cut greeds armor.


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> the magnito incident is nothing compared to when greed's head was cut off completely....the hulk picture shows that while homunculi heal any wound almost in an instant logan had to pitifully crawl four miles to pick up his other half before healing up....
> 
> about the hand to hand combat while wolverine has been alive since the 1800 he has learned many skills and has traveled the land but on the side of greed who has been alive since the 1500's and traveled many lands before being trapped in an alchmey circle mastered way more techniques than logan in his short life of 206 years.....fort knows what he is talking about dont negelct the point
> 
> ...



I think it is a safe assumption that wolverine outclasses Greed in hand to hand. I dont see how that is debatable. Greed has never demonstrated fighting prowess that measure up to that of Wolverine.

The hulk ripping wolverine is only testament to his immense strength. Although I dont see how the Hulk breaking adamantium has anything to do with this situation. (although this has gone unexplained by marvel)

If wolverine can continuously kill Greed then I dont see why greed wouldnt just die indefinitely as continuous killing is a known way to kill a homuculi. let me see you nod with me


----------



## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> I think it is a safe assumption that wolverine outclasses Greed in hand to hand. I dont see how that is debatable. Greed has never demonstrated fighting prowess that measure up to that of Wolverine.
> 
> The hulk ripping wolverine is only testament to his immense strength. Although I dont see how the Hulk breaking adamantium has anything to do with this situation. (although this has gone unexplained by marvel)
> 
> If wolverine can continuously kill Greed then I dont see why greed wouldnt just die indefinitely as continuous killing is a known way to kill a homuculi. let me see you nod with me


show me basis for the assumption that greed can't beat wolberine hand to hand and i will nod...wolverine cant kill greed by continous killing because the amount of lives in each phlosophers stone =the amount you have to kill greed and if one philosophers stone=1000 lives and if greed has eaten 100000 philosophers stone to keep him alive plus the fact that wolverine would have to put a hefty amount of power before slicing greed let alone decapitating him equals to wolverine getting tired after the 23rd kill where as he would need 1000x100000 to kill greed...
now whos doing the noding


----------



## Quoll (Nov 5, 2006)

^ That's ridiculous. Wrath didn't even have to kill greed 100 times to stop him. 
--------------------------------------------------
Hulk was able to rip Wolvie in 2 b/c the gaps between the vertabrae of the spine aren't protected. If they had an adamantium coating then it would be impossible for Wolvie to bend his back among other things.

According to marvel's site Wolvie has superhuman strength, but the range isn't listed. So, its possible that he has the strength to cut through Greed.

It has been shown that adamantium is the only thing that can pierce Hulk's skin.

I forget who posted the scan, but Wolvie has regenerated from a single drop of blood...i'll hope Gooba or someone else can post that one.

As far as I know Wrath's actual h2h training was never brought up so there's no guarantee that he's a better fighter. Recently Envy was shown getting killed multiple times by a single human ninja, so we have canon proof that being ancient doesn't equal being a master of h2h.


----------



## Orion (Nov 5, 2006)

wolverine wouldnt get tired very fast he fought omega red for over 18 hours and the guy can kill u just by standing by you with the death spores,wolverine has shown considerable super human stamina,and if u had to kill greed 100's of times then why did gluttony have to get revived  after dying like 10-15 times to scar.


----------



## Kisame. (Nov 5, 2006)

> According to marvel's site Wolvie has superhuman strength, but the range isn't listed. So, its possible that he has the strength to cut through Greed.


 
Wolvierine lifts 800-1ton

 Its super strength. But its not enough to pierce diamond.


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 5, 2006)

He doesn't have to pierce it, just slice it, which takes a lot less effort.


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Get your eyes checked, *SERIOUSLY!* Again I repeat, adamantium is the hardest substance known to *HUMAN *science! Vibranium is an *alien* metal found only in Wakanda, Africa. Asides from American steel, the other substance was an *unknown* catalyst. Therefore the exact makeup of Cap's sheild is unknown to human science. I know what the hell i'm talking about.


Technically, the exact makeup of his shield is known...it's just that they've been unable to directly duplicate it.  The "catalyst" is what allowed the vibranium and steel to combine into the resin that formed the alloy.  Catalysts, by definition, are substances or processes that allow a reaction to take place, but aren't used up in the reaction.

The closest they came to duplicating it was Adamantium.  And, for all intents and purposes, it's pretty much as durable as Cap's shield (rather, the degree to which the shield's durability surpasses Adamantium is unknown).  Since the only thing Adamantium can't cut is Adamantium itself (and anything less compressible), there is no verifiable way to determine how much more durable Cap's shield is.



rocklee0036 said:


> Oh, yeah he survived that.


What that scan doesn't show is the next page and saying how long it took Logan to heal from that:  2-3 minutes.



> _I cant find the Sabretooth one but he did survive a beheading._


It was an Ultimate X-Men...I don't remember the issue number either...


----------



## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

Quoll said:


> ^ That's ridiculous. Wrath didn't even have to kill greed 100 times to stop him.
> --------------------------------------------------
> Hulk was able to rip Wolvie in 2 b/c the gaps between the vertabrae of the spine aren't protected. If they had an adamantium coating then it would be impossible for Wolvie to bend his back among other things.
> 
> ...


I dont remember wrath and greed fighting nonthless inflicting a fatal injury..uhhh nobody is talking about hulk vs greed but greed vs wolverine and it has been stated above that hulks skin isnt that tough....dude we're talking about greeds h2h not wrath's...and if you have watched the anime series you should know that greed is h2h capable to a very high extent ancient doesnt equal master but equals experience and skill


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> show me basis for the assumption that greed can't beat wolberine hand to hand and i will nod...wolverine cant kill greed by continous killing because the amount of lives in each phlosophers stone =the amount you have to kill greed and if one philosophers stone=1000 lives and if greed has eaten 100000 philosophers stone to keep him alive plus the fact that wolverine would have to put a hefty amount of power before slicing greed let alone decapitating him equals to wolverine getting tired after the 23rd kill where as he would need 1000x100000 to kill greed...
> now whos doing the noding



Thats total fanfiction and you know that. It will not take that many kills in order to put down greed. Wolverine's mutant healing factor heightens his physical stamina to superhuman levels. In X-Men vol. 2 #5 Wolverine displays his physical stamina during a fight with Omega Red that lasts more than 18 hours, despite regular exposure to Omega Red's death spores. Not to mention, that he can go into "Berserker Rage". He is well capable of a long dragged out battle.



> I dont remember wrath and greed fighting nonthless inflicting a fatal injury..uhhh nobody is talking about hulk vs greed but greed vs wolverine and it has been stated above that hulks skin isnt that tough....dude we're talking about greeds h2h not wrath's...and if you have watched the anime series you should know that greed is h2h capable to a very high extent ancient doesnt equal master but equals experience and skill



Wrath and Greed did fight. It has been stated above that Hulk's skin is extremely tough. Regardless of Greed's experience, Wolverine is a master in every form of martial arts and thus a superior h2h fighter. Nowhere has Greed ever demonstrated fighting prowess on the same level as wolverine. 

Additionally, the exact composition of Greed's sheild is unknown. All that is known is that it is carbon based. It can be either black diamond or carbon steel, the latter being easily cut with no effort whatsoever by wolverine. 

Now lets see it:


----------



## Kazuma the Shell Bullet (Nov 5, 2006)

gaara d. lucci said:


> Is there any known way to kill Wolverine?



Cut his head off and move it far from his body


----------



## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Thats total fanfiction and you know that. It will not take that many kills in order to put down greed. Wolverine's mutant healing factor heightens his physical stamina to superhuman levels. In X-Men vol. 2 #5 Wolverine displays his physical stamina during a fight with Omega Red that lasts more than 18 hours, despite regular exposure to Omega Red's death spores. Not to mention, that he can go into "Berserker Rage". He is well capable of a long dragged out battle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(@rock leelisten to this song while reading this)
OKay so I may have exxagerated somethings but you cant kill a homunculus with mere stab wounds and to take one of the many lives a homunculi needs a lot of strenght and stamina it is safe to assume that greed has more than a thousand lives if you include how many lives goes into making a philosophers stone and how many philosophers stone greed has eaten..wolverine has been bested in h2h combat by lady deathstrike and mystique and frankly those two's h2h are either very close to greeds or the samething in most of the situations involving h2h combat wolverine relys heavily on his healing factor which ofcourse now we know greeds is better and faster...even though we know that greeds armour is carbon based it cant be black diamond because it's radioactive and if it were black diamond ed would have fallen sick beacuse of the radioactivity and we know that carbon steel is strong but it cant attest to the strenght and durability(it took a lot of damage with out scratching or bending or denting which normal carbon steal couldnt have done in that circumstance)
you know you want to:


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> (@rock leelisten to this song while reading this)
> OKay so I may have exxagerated somethings but you cant kill a homunculus with mere stab wounds and to take one of the many lives a homunculi needs a lot of strenght and stamina it is safe to assume that greed has more than a thousand lives if you include how many lives goes into making a philosophers stone and how many philosophers stone greed has eaten..wolverine has been bested in h2h combat by lady deathstrike and mystique and frankly those two's h2h are either very close to greeds or the samething in most of the situations involving h2h combat wolverine relys heavily on his healing factor which ofcourse now we know greeds is better and faster...even though we know that greeds armour is carbon based it cant be black diamond because it's radioactive and if it were black diamond ed would have fallen sick beacuse of the radioactivity and we know that carbon steel is strong but it cant attest to the strenght and durability(it took a lot of damage with out scratching or bending or denting which normal carbon steal couldnt have done in that circumstance)



You didnt have to take it that far. Will Smith's rapping career is not something I want to remember. That kinda took away from your argument.............but anyway.........

Wolverine could kill him 1000+ times no problem. Lady Deathstrike has never "defeated" Wolverine. The only time she came close was when his adamantium was stripped from his body and thus it was her adamantium versus his bare hands. She is an expertly trained assassin and is highly skilled in a variety of oriental martial arts. Lady Deathstrike is especially skilled with swords. And can you direct me to where exactly Mystique bested Wolverine in hand to hand combat, even though she herself is a potent fighter and master strategist. Still doesnt say Greed is a better h2h than wolverine, which is not even debatable at this point.

Well the only presumed explanations at this point are black diamond and carbon steel. What we do know is that it is carbon based.

I do have a question however: Can the sheild be spliced on a molecular level?

Oh and I forgot:


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> I do have a question however: Can the sheild be spliced on a molecular level?


Which shield?  Greed's "Ultimate" or Cap's?


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> Which shield?  Greed's "Ultimate" or Cap's?



Greed's ultimate


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Greed's ultimate


Well, transmutation is sorta like cleaving the bonds between the atoms and rearranging them.

I'm sure if you had a blade with an edge sharpened to a thickness of a proton, then it would probably slice through his shield like butter...along with damn near anything else.


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> Well, transmutation is sorta like cleaving the bonds between the atoms and rearranging them.
> 
> I'm sure if you had a blade with an edge sharpened to a thickness of a proton, then it would probably slice through his shield like butter...along with damn near anything else.



So would wolverine's marumasa blade be able to cut Greeds shield?


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 5, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> So would wolverine's marumasa blade be able to cut Greeds shield?


I'm not sure...

...I'm still a bit sketchy on the details of the blade.  I just know that the cuts it makes can even override Wolverine's healing factor...or, it slows it down at the area of the incision.


----------



## Red (Nov 5, 2006)

the area of hand to hand is greeds specialty it's his preferred way of fighting..he has centuries worth of experiance...the only reason he isnt renowned for it is because of the fact that homunculi have been manipulating things from the shadows so you can understand why he isnt famous for his kickassness...not even once in he anime has his shield been broken...his healing factor pwns that of wolverines and wolverine wont be able to cut through his shield even with the marumasa blade because of a little thing called bonding.....

*Spoiler*: _chemistry lesson_ 



now the reason for that is beacuse of the fundamental components of wolverine's  claws..wolverine's claws are metal and metal in it's subatomic particles are pretty weak and maeliable and are bonded together by a phenomenon called metal bonding now we look at greed's shield... it infact when it comes to it being an alltrope of carbon we can safely assume that it is crystalline in structure because if it wasnt then it wouldnt be so durable...crystalline shapes are bonded with a kind of bond called electrovalent(or ionic) bonding this type of bond is the strongest bond and it is ussually found in crystalline structures(i.e salt and other crap)but what makes diamond(assuming it is greeds shield) so hard is actually it's structure(it is structured in the famous octohedral shape)thus making it the strongest substance found both in the macro world and the subatomic world) the force needed would be more than 300 newtons and i cant see wolverine supplying that in one punch 



so you can see that wolverine wont be able to break the shield
 even with his marumasa blade
*cough*


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> I'm not sure...
> 
> ...I'm still a bit sketchy on the details of the blade.  I just know that the cuts it makes can even override Wolverine's healing factor...or, it slows it down at the area of the incision.



Well what I know is that it is an extraordinarily sharp demonic blade and that it does not cut, but rather splices at the molecular level. And it is sufficient enough that not even wolverine would survive an killing blow from it.

According to legend, a Muramasa sword could cut a leaf flowing down a stream when held in the stream in the leaf's path. The halves of the leaves were then said to float around the blade as if with a demonic aura. It has also been told that once drawn, a Muramasa blade has to draw blood before it can be returned to its scabbard.  

Muramasa boasts that he will make a sword in honor of Wolverine, one that can defeat even him. Through unknown means, Muramasa begins the process that makes Wolverine into a living weapon.

After remembering this, Wolverine goes back to Muramasa's mountain and reclaims the Muramasa Blade which belongs to him. Muramasa willingly gives the sword to Wolverine and tells him to "wield it like an angry god".


----------



## Gooba (Nov 5, 2006)

Also, Wolverine's claws are not weak and maeliable , even at the atomic level, it is harder than any crystals, even diamonds.


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 5, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> the area of hand to hand is greeds specialty it's his preferred way of fighting..he has centuries worth of experiance...the only reason he isnt renowned for it is because of the fact that homunculi have been manipulating things from the shadows so you can understand why he isnt famous for his kickassness...not even once in he anime has his shield been broken...his healing factor pwns that of wolverines and wolverine wont be able to cut through his shield even with the marumasa blade because of a little thing called bonding.....
> 
> *Spoiler*: _chemistry lesson_
> 
> ...



A Physics lesson:

300 Newtons x (0.225 lbs/1 Newton) = 67.5 lbs of force

Wolverine lifting strength = 800 lbs - 1000 lbs.

The muramasa blade can break any form of molecular bond. That's in its description. 

Can you please tell me where and when Greed has ever demonstrated fighting prowess equal to that of wolverine?



			
				Gooba said:
			
		

> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> Also, Wolverine's claws are not weak and maeliable , even at the atomic level, it is harder than any crystals, even diamonds.



Thx. I am looking at that comic right now in my hands. It was a good one. I didnt want to scan it, cause i keep my comics in mint condition. But yeah that pretty much sums it up right there.


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 5, 2006)

blindpipe said:


> the area of hand to hand is greeds specialty it's his preferred way of fighting..he has centuries worth of experiance...the only reason he isnt renowned for it is because of the fact that homunculi have been manipulating things from the shadows so you can understand why he isnt famous for his kickassness...not even once in he anime has his shield been broken...his healing factor pwns that of wolverines and wolverine wont be able to cut through his shield even with the marumasa blade because of a little thing called bonding.....
> 
> *Spoiler*: _chemistry lesson_
> 
> ...


The only way adamantium can exist the way it does is if it's molecules are covalently bonded together, rather than ionically bonded like other metals and alloys.

And that explains why even Silver Samurai's swords can't pierce adamantium.

Also, as far as who's healing factor is stronger, they're both comparable to each other, since Greed regenerated his head in seconds and Wolverine regenerated his entire body from just his skeleton, in around 2-3 minutes.


----------



## Red (Nov 6, 2006)

Marvel is a good comic brand but it is seriously losing credibilty....covalent bonding is not found in metals but with reactive gases and some liguids on certain conditions >_<... but because at all levels even atomic greeds shield (presumably)diamond pwns all including metals..there is no way that wolverines admantium would cut through greeds shield all the proofs you have been giving me is of wolverine cutting other guy's metallic shields or bodies...till now greed shield hasnt been pierced even at the atomic because of the eight sided atomic arrangment of his shield (presumably diamond) infact as far as wolverine still uses metal he wont be able to cut greed(the reason being metallic attoms are either arrenged in the fashion of a cloud{electron cloud shaing} or layers hence the reason of conductivity and maeliability[spelling] which in no way can cut it's way through a crystalline structure) the reason I am saying this is too prove that wolverines marmusa claws (logically scientifically) cant cut through greeds Uber diamond..maybe other metals..but not greeds skin....

greed has never really shown his true potential in a fight because

1.he's not serious(as in the kidnapping of al where he had the chance to bash ed's head in)
2.kickass like that
3.he wants to be defeated(as in the case with ed)
4.he doesnt have the time or doesnt really care(envy)
you have to agree with me since h2h combant is his preferred fighting style wouldnt you think someone like him who has fought for more than 500 years would be good at what he does?
in the anime he never ever fought seriously with anybody the only thing lacking in his skills in comparison to logan is fame nothing more...
damn i'm good


----------



## Quoll (Nov 6, 2006)

^ All of us are basing our arguements relating to the homunculi on the manga where they aren't made out to be invincible to non-alchemists. In the manga he was owned by Wrath while he was serious. Wrath killed him around 20 times w/o taking a scratch and he has had a normal human lifespan. Wrath uses a normal sword, and he wasn't slowed down the least bit by Greed's abilities and skills. If a regular guy w/ good sight can own him that badly its ridiculous to assume he's a great fighter b/c he's an old guy that specializes in hand to hand.


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 6, 2006)

@ blinpipe: Oh yeah your real good. So good that you are able to make things up and pass them off as genuine fact......

Lets cut the chemistry lesson cause you have no idea what you are talking about.  



			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> but because at all levels even atomic greeds shield (presumably)diamond pwns all including metals..there is no way that wolverines admantium would cut through greeds shield all the proofs you have been giving me is of wolverine cutting other guy's metallic shields or bodies...



diamond pwns all since when my friend? Have you not learned that Adamantium is the hardest and strongest substance known to human SCIENCE. Yes I said science, so you could eat those little chemistry facts you have there. 



			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> till now greed shield hasnt been pierced even at the atomic because of the eight sided atomic arrangment of his shield (presumably diamond) infact as far as wolverine still uses metal he wont be able to cut greed(the reason being metallic attoms are either arrenged in the fashion of a cloud{electron cloud shaing} or layers hence the reason of conductivity and maeliability[spelling] which in no way can cut it's way through a crystalline structure)



How do u think real diamonds are cut. With metal buddy. SURPRISE! I doubt you even know what your talking about here.



			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> the reason I am saying this is too prove that wolverines marmusa claws (logically scientifically) cant cut through greeds Uber diamond..maybe other metals..but not greeds skin...



LOL. This just shows you have no idea whats going on. Wolverine doesnt possess Muramasa claws, its a demonic blade. Its even greater than adamantium and can cut right through wolverine. 



			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> greed has never really shown his true potential in a fight because
> 
> 1.he's not serious(as in the kidnapping of al where he had the chance to bash ed's head in)
> 2.kickass like that
> ...



BULL BULL BULL. I asked you to show me one instance where Greed matches Wolverine in h2h, and this is what you come up with. Oh, Greed didnt feel like fighting. Greed wanted to get his ass whipped. No theories buddy, you gotta come wit straight facts. Greed has never shown it therefore its non canon to argue that he can do it. 

And wolverine is famous cause he actually gets the job done. Hes famous cause hes actually one the the greatest characters in comic history and a staple for the comic universe.

Now lets see just how good you really:


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Well obviously it does. If you believe that Colossus is stronger than the Hulk then you deserve no merit whatsoever. This to me indicates that much of what comes out your mouth is pure fiction.



What does Colossus and Hulk have to do with this topic?



> No actually you just proved my point. Im saying that he was not affected because of the durability of his skin. I believe you said: "Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke." Obviously false. Again the gamma radiation has nothing to do with a nuclear explosion.



Well the radiation or whatever doesn't affect him as much anyone else. I'm not perfect with Hulk



> Concession accepted



God don't be a retard. Only morons and idiots use 'Concession Accepted'. The last dickwad that was saying that didn't have a greed rep bar



> Do you have amnesia or something? What I said was a direct response to your statement:
> 
> "How about you learn more about the Marvel universe. Do you know what Captain America's shield is made out of?
> 
> ...



Did I deny that adamantium is weaker than diamond?

Don't think so. I was debating Wolverine being able to cut anything. If he was able to slice diamond up then why the hell doesn't he turn weaker enemies into mince meat when they fight?



> How about you *read* the name of the person that I was adressing. Again you prove to me that you have the reading skills of a 4 year old or that you are just not intelligent enough to recognize the context of my statements. I was clearly addressing _Blindpipe_ so I have no idea how you took offense to that statement.



Does it matter? It was part of the debate and I was proving that Greed's regen is greater than Logans



> Well you yourself admitted Wolverine is a better h2h combatant than anyone from FMA so whats the point of bringing up Izumi Curtis and Greed's h2h fighting capabilities if he is clearly outmatched.



Does being a better h2h always win fights? Hulk has some of the worst and he beats more skill fighters like Wolverine and Thing

I was just pointing it out. Also my point was to show that Wolverine won't have an easy time with Greed even if he could cut him up


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> What does Colossus and Hulk have to do with this topic?



 This isnt even worth adressing anymore. I'll lay it down for you so you could see it for yourself in plain english: The Hulk is stronger than Colossus



> Well the radiation or whatever doesn't affect him as much anyone else. I'm not perfect with Hulk



Im not talking about the radiation. Im talking about the explosion. The radiation has nothing to do with his skin. The radiation comes after the explosion. The Hulk survives the explosion buddy. 



> God don't be a retard. Only morons and idiots use 'Concession Accepted'. The last dickwad that was saying that didn't have a greed rep bar



Well then i take it that you have nothing good to say so you have thus conceded



> Did I deny that adamantium is weaker than diamond?
> 
> Don't think so. I was debating Wolverine being able to cut anything. If he was able to slice diamond up then why the hell doesn't he turn weaker enemies into mince meat when they fight?



..........Um I think we've already gotten to the point where Wolverine can cut through any known substance. You have to keep up with the times man.




> Does it matter? It was part of the debate and I was proving that Greed's regen is greater than Logans



Yes it does. If you are not adressed then I dont see how you are offended by my statement. And if you can remember correctly, it was about wolverines fighting ability not his regen. LOL. Get some glasses.



> Does being a better h2h always win fights? Hulk has some of the worst and he beats more skill fighters like Wolverine and Thing
> 
> I was just pointing it out. Also my point was to show that Wolverine won't have an easy time with Greed even if he could cut him up



Does being better at h2h give you an advantage in a fight. Most certainly I would think. Wouldnt you? The hulk doesnt need to be a good h2h combatant when you could lift a 150 billion mountain range. 

Wolverine can cut through the armor and will have a field day with this one.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> This isnt even worth adressing anymore. I'll lay it down for you so you could see it for yourself in plain english: The Hulk is stronger than Colossus



Salmon Soup!



> Im not talking about the radiation. Im talking about the explosion. The radiation has nothing to do with his skin. The radiation comes after the explosion. The Hulk survives the explosion buddy.



Well I never really addressed that nor did I ever deny it



> Well then i take it that you have nothing good to say so you have thus conceded



Please drop it. Because of one poster, I've come to hate the word 'concession' and 'concede'. If fact after seeing you Gai/Kakashi/Itachi VS Vegeta thread, you're turning into him



> ..........Um I think we've already gotten to the point where Wolverine can cut through any known substance. You have to keep up with the times man.



Ummmmm no we haven't.



> Yes it does. If you are not adressed then I dont see how you are offended by my statement. And if you can remember correctly, it was about wolverines fighting ability not his regen. LOL. Get some glasses.



Which is why you posted scans of Logan's regen feats?



> Does being better at h2h give you an advantage in a fight. Most certainly I would think. Wouldnt you? The hulk doesnt need to be a good h2h combatant when you could lift a 150 billion mountain range.



Hulk did not lift the mountain range. *Post me every single scan showing me Hulk can lift it*

Also Wolverine doesn't have brute strength, he relies on his agility. That's some Greed can compete against him with 

Wolverine can cut through the armor and will have a field day with this one.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Gooba (Nov 6, 2006)

> Marvel is a good comic brand but it is seriously losing credibilty....covalent bonding is not found in metals but with reactive gases and some liguids on certain conditions >_<... but because at all levels even atomic greeds shield (presumably)diamond pwns all including metals..there is no way that wolverines admantium would cut through greeds shield all the proofs you have been giving me is of wolverine cutting other guy's metallic shields or bodies...till now greed shield hasnt been pierced even at the atomic because of the eight sided atomic arrangment of his shield (presumably diamond) infact as far as wolverine still uses metal he wont be able to cut greed(the reason being metallic attoms are either arrenged in the fashion of a cloud{electron cloud shaing} or layers hence the reason of conductivity and maeliability[spelling] which in no way can cut it's way through a crystalline structure) the reason I am saying this is too prove that wolverines marmusa claws (logically scientifically) cant cut through greeds Uber diamond..maybe other metals..but not greeds skin....


I don't give a damn about all the chemistry you have.  Adamantium is the hardest material in the Marvel universe besides Uru, and some mixes of adamanitum/vibranium.  It is harder than diamond, it is a marvel scientific fact that you can't debate.  Say adamantium isn't following the laws of science for all I care, there is a guy who shoots lasers out of his eyes and men who can fly without wings or any propulsion.

Also, diamonds are hard, but brittle due to their rigidity.  If I was to make a sword out of diamond it would crack in half if I collided with a regular iron blade.


----------



## Red (Nov 6, 2006)

The only mistake i'm making is trying to apply logic and sense to an animated world you cant friggn sue....( and all the scientific spewage i've been spewing for your enjoyment is fact assuming that one is diamond and the other is metal)

well it now boils down to the ultimate shield in the FMA vs ultimate blade in marvel

the hardest substance vs the hardest substance

non of us here can prove beyond a doubt that wolverine's blade can cut greeds shield the only thing that you have been doing is comparing greeds shield with other people's shield lesser shield that wolverine has cut...
uptill now you havent proved that wolverines blade can even cut through
 greeds shield I've proven that there is now way adamantium bieng a metal can't cut through greeds uber shield at a molecular level...or any for that matter....greeds h2h is top notch..he has more experience...he has strenght...and those are reasons I give you aren't bull if you've watched the anime all of those points are proved there wasnt even 1 fight greed had any intention of finishing you can call them bull but you yourself know because i know you've watched the anime that  nobody in the FMA world can stand greeds h2h and even so his shield..there was not even one occasion that he showed his skills because of the reasons listed above you are making a very unsafe assumption based on the little you've seen of greed...
you will nod with me dis time 





> Also, diamonds are hard, but brittle due to their rigidity. If I was to make a sword out of diamond it would crack in half if I collided with a regular iron blade.


this statment is very very bad for your argument because it shows that you dont even know anything about diamond...just edit this out of your post before someone sees it and thinks your not bright....


> It is harder than diamond, it is a marvel scientific


greeds shield cannot be broken it is FMA a scientific fact that you cant dispute


> Adamantium is the hardest material in the Marvel universe


Greeds shield is the hardest in the FMA universe....nothing can break it also


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 6, 2006)

Okay first of Logan has his agility, since of smell, healing factor, Martial Arts, and bones working for him. Also about the whole Thing comment.... Logan and the Hulk fights ALL the time!!!! I mean I have read at least 12 comics where they fight. Hulk won round one but latter on wolverine did get his revenge! And guess what.... They still fight almost everytime they see each other. Now If you recall Hulk made the THING his bitch when they fought! So if logan is NOW able to stand even ground with the HULK then The Thing would no longer be a problem. Also Logan's healing factor has improved as well after getting his bones pulled out my Magnito, his healing factor was jacked up for a while but later it becomes 10 times faster.  Greed gets his ass kicked in this one.


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 6, 2006)

Greed is a gonner


----------



## Gooba (Nov 6, 2006)

The shield is defined as the hardest because it is diamond, which also exists in the Marvel Universe, where that isn't the case.  In the real world we cut diamonds to make them pretty.  In Marvel, they can't cut adamantium, even with the same tools used to cut diamonds, and cutting tools much more powerful than those.  Explain that.



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Unlike hardness, which only denotes resistance to scratching, diamond's toughness or tenacity is only fair to good. Toughness relates to the ability to resist breakage from falls or impacts: due to diamond's perfect and easy cleavage, it is vulnerable to breakage. A diamond will shatter if hit with an ordinary hammer.





			
				http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/kh_jewelry_diamond_chemistry.html said:
			
		

> In the field materials science and metallurgy, toughness is the resistance to fracture of a material when stressed or impacted. Toughness is measured in units of "joules" per cubic meter (J/m3) in the SI system and "pound-force" per square inch in US units. Unlike hardness, which only denotes resistance to scratching, diamond's toughness is only fair to good. Particular cuts of diamonds are more prone to breakage, and thus may be uninsurable by reputable insurance companies.





			
				http://www.jcrs.com/JCRS_for_consumers/jewelry_information/diamonds/diamonds_introduction.htm said:
			
		

> Toughness refers to the ability of the gem to resist breakage, as from a blow or fall. Diamond's toughness rating is only fair to good.



Just so you know, I have seen every FMA anime, and Greed is by far my favorite character.  Just like I won't say Wolvie can beat Sentry (whom I hate), I won't say Greed's diamonds are harder than adamantium.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

Owned[/QUOTE]


God how many times must I own *you* before you quit

READ WHAT I SAID. I SAID POST ME EVERY PAGE OF HULK *LIFTING* THE MOUNTAIN

WHAT YOU SHOWED WAS HIM HOLDING IT

Now stupid, if you know anything about that comic, HULK DID NOT LIFT IT UP, Molecule Man dropped it on him

Owned


----------



## Crimson King (Nov 6, 2006)

Hulk's still lifting the mountain.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

Are you stupid? He's holding it, lifting is the action to take an object and  raise it above it's former level

Do you have a scan of Hulk taking it off the ground?

Don't think so

Owned


----------



## EvilMoogle (Nov 6, 2006)

The problem is, FMA defines Greed's shield by real-world terms.  It's some structure made of Carbon that is insanely durable.  That's it.

Adamantium in Marvel is a "magic" material that doesn't conform to normal standards.  It's a metal, yes, but it has zero malleability.  If you heat it, it doesn't melt no matter how hot it gets (or rather I've heard it melts, but keeps its form despite this, but then it's not really a liquid is it?).

An infinitely sharp adamantium blade would cut through anything effortlessly.  Obviously Wolverine's claws are not infinately sharp so the question becomes how much force can he exert vs. how much can Greed's shield take?

I'm personally inclined to say Wolverine cuts through easily, but I've only seen the Anime which had very few Greed feats to work with.


----------



## earthshine (Nov 6, 2006)

> So lifting = holding now?
> 
> To lift something, it requires something to be raised to a higher level
> 
> ...



it would amaze me more if you could show me the ability to stay on topic and not argue about soemthnig completly irrelevant to the thread you are in.



and yes, wolverine can cut greed. greed is daimond hard at best, and adamantium is basically impossibly strong, and add to that the fact that his claws have an extremly sharp edge to them, and it is not hard to imagine him cutting greed.


wolverine has more than enough strength to do it,even a nromal human could, but wolverine is actually has low level superstrength due to his healing factor(maybe not super, but beyond what even a peak human could do).


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

earthshine said:


> it would amaze me more if you could show me the ability to stay on topic and not argue about soemthnig completly irrelevant to the thread you are in.



So what would I do then. If _you_ looked through the thread. _You'll_ see who bought up this whole Hulk deal

And the person's name doesn't start with a 'F'



> and yes, wolverine can cut greed. greed is daimond hard at best, and adamantium is basically impossibly strong, and add to that the fact that his claws have an extremly sharp edge to them, and it is not hard to imagine him cutting greed.



What kind of retarded logic is that?

So you're saying that if I had a adamantium knife, I could easily slice through a tank?



> wolverine has more than enough strength to do it,even a nromal human could, but wolverine is actually has low level superstrength due to his healing factor(maybe not super, but beyond what even a peak human could do).



He's not even superhuman, he's barely pushing metahuman


----------



## earthshine (Nov 6, 2006)

> So what would I do then. If you looked through the thread. You'll see who bought up this whole Hulk deal
> 
> And the person's name doesn't start with a 'F'




I looked. next tiem just act like a responible, sensible person and ignore it instead of arguing about it.






> What kind of retarded logic is that?
> 
> So you're saying that if I had a adamantium knife, I could easily slice through a tank?



wolverine cuts ungodly hard things all the time, also, greeds armor is not very thick, like say a tanks.






> He's not even superhuman, he's barely pushing metahuman



both he and deadpool can perform better than even the best human in any area.


----------



## Gooba (Nov 6, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> Adamantium in Marvel is a "magic" material that doesn't conform to normal standards.  It's a metal, yes, but it has zero malleability.  If you heat it, it doesn't melt no matter how hot it gets (or rather I've heard it melts, but keeps its form despite this, but then it's not really a liquid is it?).


That isn't quite right, and I guess, neither was I when I said adamantium was less malleable than diamonds.  Diamonds are not malleable at all, they just break if they get too much force.  Adamantium can be bent with enough force, and can be melted with enough heat, but those amounts are insanely high.  You need someone like Thor, swinging with all his might to _dent _adamantium, and I haven't seen anyone able to melt it yet.  It still satisfies all the properties of metal, it is just that before you could bend it at all whatever you were pushing against it would break/bend first (unless it is Uru, or the body of someone like a very enraged Hulk).  These limits are many orders of magnitude above anything you would see in a Wolverine vs Greed fight, so it is essentially invincible for the purposes of this discussion. 

You have to remember, Wolvie is also a judo master, as well as so many other styles, so he would be able to get Greed to use his own strength to help Wolverine cut/pierce his skin if it is too much for him (which I doubt).

Also, Wolverine has cut open tanks.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

earthshine said:


> I looked. next tiem just act like a responible, sensible person and ignore it instead of arguing about it.



Sure thing boss



> wolverine cuts ungodly hard things all the time, also, greeds armor is not very thick, like say a tanks.



Ummm like?



> both he and deadpool can perform better than even the best human in any area.



I think the fact that they have a insanely high tolerance to pain helps


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Salmon Soup!



Philly cheese steak! 

Hulk > Colossus. In the words of Toonami Naruto: Believe It!



> Well I never really addressed that nor did I ever deny it



Lets recap shall we. I = Red. You = Blue


*Spoiler*: __ 



Hulk has one of the toughest hides known to the Marvel Universe, and adamantium can penetrate it. If any other substance could, im pretty sure it would have been used instead of adamantium.

Where was it ever stated he had one of the toughest hides? Most other weaker heavy hitters probably have harder hides (like Colossus and Thing)

Thats a part of his power. He is shown withstanding the impact of high-caliber artillery shells, falls from orbital heights, and powerful energy blasts without sustaining injury and resisting extreme temperatures. His durability is enough to withstand nuclear blasts at ground zero without sustaining an injury. In addition, the Hulk's body regenerates damaged or destroyed areas of tissue at an accelerated rate.

Colossus and thing both have tough hides and they have both been cut by adamantium.

Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke.

And don't mention Maestro being killed by a nuke, that was stupid

Oh yes, anyone could tank a nuke. Thats just a common feat for any superhero. The fact that he gained his powers from gamma radiation has nothing to do with him withsatnding a nuclear explosion. Do you have any idea how much pressure and force is created in such an explosion. Energy produced by a nuclear explosive is millions of times more per gram than a conventional explosion and the temperatures reached are in the tens of millions of degrees. Yeah so tanking nukes is pretty special for anyone.


You miss my point, I'm saying that Hulk in general is less affect by the affects of radiation because of his power

No actually you just proved my point. Im saying that he was not affected because of the durability of his skin. I believe you said: "Tanking nukes isn't special for Hulk, considering that he gained his powers from a ground zero nuke." Obviously false. Again the gamma radiation has nothing to do with a nuclear explosion.

Well the radiation or whatever doesn't affect him as much anyone else. I'm not perfect with Hulk

Im not talking about the radiation. Im talking about the explosion. The radiation has nothing to do with his skin. The radiation comes after the explosion. The Hulk survives the explosion buddy.

Well I never really addressed that nor did I ever deny it




Conclusion: How much more of your own words must I make you swallow? 



> Please drop it. Because of one poster, I've come to hate the word 'concession' and 'concede'. If fact after seeing you Gai/Kakashi/Itachi VS Vegeta thread, you're turning into him



Well whos fault is it that you are always forced into concession? Dont blame me!



> Ummmmm no we haven't.



Ummmmmmmmmm...Oh Yeah we have.



> Which is why you posted scans of Logan's regen feats?



This is really getting SAD. Lets recap again.


*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				blindpipe said:
			
		

> to stand upto wolverines low level of martial arts(to my knowledge he relies on his claws to fight)



Just so you know: During his time in Japan and other countries, Wolverine became a master of virtually all forms of martial arts and fighting, both armed and unarmed; as a samurai, he is especially skilled in the use of the katana. Wolverine is regarded as one of the finest hand to hand fighters in the Marvel Universe, able to defeat the likes of Shang-Chi and Captain America in single combat. He has a wide knowledge of the body and pressure points. Not to mention his training in Weapon X and the Danger Room.
Don't be fooled by his X-man movie interpretation. 



			
				blinpipe said:
			
		

> plus you still havent brought up proof that logan has survived having his head,lower abodmen cut off or imploded(I want pics dammit)..and it has been stated that even logans healing powers are limited so it is safe to say that his regen powers are beaten by greeds..



Calm down. Just some of his regenerative feats:


We all know he survived this. And as a result his healing factor to was boosted "incredible levels" for a while.


His lower torso was tossed 4 miles from the rest of his body and he was able retrieve and regenerate it. 


Oh, yeah he survived that.

Two separate points. Neither having anything to do with YOU!!!






> Hulk did not lift the mountain range. *Post me every single scan showing me Hulk can lift it*



I believe you got that scan so its time to close that mouth!



> Also Wolverine doesn't have brute strength, he relies on his agility. That's some Greed can compete against him with



Wolverine still possess' superhuman strength. Whats your point. He doesnt rely on his agility alone. He is an expert martial artist and the world's most dangerous killing machine.

If this isnt pwnage I have no idea what is.


----------



## earthshine (Nov 6, 2006)

> Ummm like?



basically anythnig. pretty much all metals, woods and stones. greed's body just has alot of carbon, but I doubt it is impervious. the metals used against it where simply steel, wolverines slices through thick steel and the like with his clws, I think he can penetrate less than half an inch of greed.





> I think the fact that they have a insanely high tolerance to pain helps




how? they can actually perform on a superhuman level due to their healing powers, it means they can exert a cosntant 100% muscle capacuty at all times, since it heals almost instantly. a normal human does not do anythnig near this.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Philly cheese steak!
> 
> Hulk > Colossus. In the words of Toonami Naruto: Believe It!



Tuna Sandwhich!



> Lets recap shall we. I = Red. You = Blue
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



As my last statement is, I did not deny it



> Well whos fault is it that you are always forced into concession? Dont blame me!



Can you frigging drop it. If you want to keep shoving that word in my face I can piss you off with your rep bar



> Ummmmmmmmmm...Oh Yeah we have.



Any known substance? Got a scan of him cutting diamond?



> This is really getting SAD. Lets recap again.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Did I say it has to do with me? Your scans were attempting to establish that Wolverine has greater than Greeds. I was debating that



> I believe you got that scan so its time to close that mouth!



God you're stupid. Did you read what I said 

Show me a scan of Hulk *LIFTING* a mountain. Not *holding*, *lifting* a mountain. Holding a mountain is significantly easier than lifting it in the first place

FYI Hulk didn't lift that mountain, Molecule Man dropped it on him



> Wolverine still possess' superhuman strength. Whats your point. He doesnt rely on his agility alone. He is an expert martial artist and the world's most dangerous killing machine.



He does not poesses superhuman strength. He's peak human - metahuman range

Show me scan of him doing Hulk.....wait not Hulk doing Spidey level strength feats


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

earthshine said:


> basically anythnig. pretty much all metals, woods and stones. greed's body just has alot of carbon, but I doubt it is impervious. the metals used against it where simply steel, wolverines slices through thick steel and the like with his clws, I think he can penetrate less than half an inch of greed.



I never denied that adamantium could cut diamond

I do debate *Wolverine* has the strength to cut Greed, or at least enough to incompacitate him



> how? they can actually perform on a superhuman level due to their healing powers, it means they can exert a cosntant 100% muscle capacuty at all times, since it heals almost instantly. a normal human does not do anythnig near this.



_META_human, not superhuman. _meta_


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## EvilMoogle (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> _META_human, not superhuman. _meta_



Metahuman is a DC comics term.  Anything beyond the limits of human norm is superhuman.

A normal human of Wolverine's size and build could not lift the 800-1000lbs Wolverine can lift, thus Wolverine's strength is superhuman.  Granted not by very much but *shrugs*.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

Also which Greed is this? Is this the original or new one? If it's the original then Wolverine is the better h2h if it's the new one then Wolverine is outmatched

Here's some scans to give you an idea of new Greed

*Spoiler*: _This ninja chick ridicules Ed_ 




[Shinsen-Subs]​_S-Strain​_02​_[71FB2D1B].avi
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*Spoiler*: _Wrath effortlessly owns the ninja girl_ 




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*Spoiler*: _That other guy is the body Greed currently has_ 




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He was able to fight Wrath even with only one sword and holding his friend. That's two major handicaps


*Spoiler*: _Wrath's feats_ 




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*Spoiler*: _Wrath beating Greed (I didn't want to post this, I hate seeing Greed not win :( )_ 




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See the last page? Wrath is fast enough to pull out all four swords and impale Greed before he even hits the ground

You so much as declare Wolverine on Wrath's level or bring up his regen again and I will drop this because I know you are a biased fanboy


----------



## Gooba (Nov 6, 2006)

Stop arguing semantics.  He can lift 800 pounds, whatever you want to call it, that is what he does.  Now we can get back to talking about him vs Greed.


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Tuna Sandwhich!



Apple Sauce



> As my last statement is, I did not deny it



You did initially therefore that constitutes a CoNcEsSiOn


> Can you frigging drop it. If you want to keep shoving that word in my face I can piss you off with your rep bar



Go ahead and play wit my rep bar, thats called rep abuse kiddo, especially with smods watching this, so good luck. I dont want you to off yourself so i'll only do it one last time: Concession accepted! Believe It!



> Any known substance? Got a scan of him cutting diamond?



ANY KNOWN SUBSTANCE! YES! That is what adamantium does by DEFINITION! And of course you dont have to bring up caps sheild again. Then I'd just have to put you down again like a sick dog.



> Did I say it has to do with me? Your scans were attempting to establish that Wolverine has greater than Greeds. I was debating that



Regardless he shown regenerative abilities that far surpass any damage Greed could inflict on him.



> God you're stupid. Did you read what I said
> 
> Show me a scan of Hulk *LIFTING* a mountain. Not *holding*, *lifting* a mountain. Holding a mountain is significantly easier than lifting it in the first place
> 
> FYI Hulk didn't lift that mountain, Molecule Man dropped it on him



If you know so much about then why wont u shut up about it already. And oh yes, just any superhero in existence can support a 150 billion ton mountain range. You got a scan. The scan shows him holding the mountain range  so shut up already. Dont try and obfuscate the argument at hand, just because you are getting completely outclassed on every aspect. 



> He does not poesses superhuman strength. He's peak human - metahuman range



Already answered^^



> Show me scan of him doing Hulk.....wait not Hulk doing Spidey level strength feats



What are you asking for? Wolverine cutting through Hulk with his claws?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 6, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> Apple Sauce



Margarita Pizza



> You did initially therefore that constitutes a CoNcEsSiOn
> 
> Go ahead and play wit my rep bar, thats called rep abuse kiddo, especially with smods watching this, so good luck. I dont want you to off yourself so i'll only do it one last time: Concession accepted! Believe It!



Well actually I don't neg rep. Haven't neg repped anyone ever, even people who has peeved me off far more than you

Unlike you, I don't care that much about my rep. Nor do I whine in my sig whenever someone negs me 



> ANY KNOWN SUBSTANCE! YES! That is what adamantium does by DEFINITION! And of course you dont have to bring up caps sheild again. Then I'd just have to put you down again like a sick dog.



And do you know how often the definitions are right? Very rare



> Regardless he shown regenerative abilities that far surpass any damage Greed could inflict on him.



Never said Greed would win in a direct fight, nor do I believe so



> If you know so much about then why wont u shut up about it already. And oh yes, just any superhero in existence can support a 150 billion ton mountain range. You got a scan. The scan shows him holding the mountain range  so shut up already. Dont try and obfuscate the argument at hand, just because you are getting completely outclassed on every aspect.



Nice dodge 



> Already answered^^



I'm going to drop this at Goob's request



> What are you asking for? Wolverine cutting through Hulk with his claws?



Well it doesn't matter because Gooba wants us to drop this Wolverine strength thing


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Margarita Pizza
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is some proof of wolverine's strenght. (link is also bellow)

Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs. 


That is from a Marvel site itself.....So im sure he can cut thru greed's armor.


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## Kinjishi (Nov 6, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Margarita Pizza



Scrambled Eggs!



> Well actually I don't neg rep. Haven't neg repped anyone ever, even people who has peeved me off far more than you
> 
> Unlike you, I don't care that much about my rep. Nor do I whine in my sig whenever someone negs me



Well your the one whos crying that your gonna neg rep. Oh noooooo! Its negative rep! Everyone look out! Fact is you are getting dismantled and revert to a threat in order to prove some point, which I have no idea what that point is, and neither do I care.



> And do you know how often the definitions are right? Very rare



That has to be the single stupidest thing I have ever heard in my ENTIRE life. Somehow definition = false. Good job kid. 



> Never said Greed would win in a direct fight, nor do I believe so



Ok, now I have to go back on my word. That is officially a concession. Why the hell are you wasting anyones time? 



> Nice dodge



Not nearly as nice a how you tried to argue that definition = fallacy. Or the fact that you just admitted you lost. 



> I'm going to drop this at Goob's request



No actually your gonna drop cause your wrong. Goob and I are arguing the same position so that was a VERY VERY NICE DODGE! 



> Well it doesn't matter because Gooba wants us to drop this Wolverine strength thing



LOL. Accuse me of dodging eh. You ask for proof and when its presented to you, you say it doesnt matter cause Goob says its besides the point. But you seem to forget Gooba and I are on the same side here so you just got owned. Dont try to cop out now. Why ask for proof if your just gonna deny it for no logical reason just cause you wont admit that you are WRONG. Come on just stop wasting everyones time. This is over.:toliet


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> Here is some proof of wolverine's strenght. (link is also bellow)
> 
> Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.
> 
> ...



Marvel definitions are rarely correct. Look at Captain America and then look at his feats



rocklee0036 said:


> Scrambled Eggs!



Toamato sauce!

[qute]Well your the one whos crying that your gonna neg rep. Oh noooooo! Its negative rep! Everyone look out! Fact is you are getting dismantled and revert to a threat in order to prove some point, which I have no idea what that point is, and neither do I care.[/quote]

No, I'm wasn't trying to prove a point. I was asking you to stop saying 'concession', instead you did the real mature thing to continously do it. I threatened to neg rep because *I know* you care about your rep



> That has to be the single stupidest thing I have ever heard in my ENTIRE life. Somehow definition = false. Good job kid.



I meant the Marvel Directory is most of the time wrong. Captain America is listed as _peak human_ but he consistently pulls feats no normal human can do



> Ok, now I have to go back on my word. That is officially a concession. Why the hell are you wasting anyones time?



I'm _wasting_ your time because alot of idiots here use the stupid reason that simply because adamantium is harder than diamond, Wolverine wins

Well those idiots don't know much. They're the same people that probably thought Wolverine could beat Zoro



> Not nearly as nice a how you tried to argue that definition = fallacy. Or the fact that you just admitted you lost.



*Find my post where I said Greed will win in a direct confrontation*

I'll wait



> No actually your gonna drop cause your wrong. Goob and I are arguing the same position so that was a VERY VERY NICE DODGE!
> 
> LOL. Accuse me of dodging eh. You ask for proof and when its presented to you, you say it doesnt matter cause Goob says its besides the point. But you seem to forget Gooba and I are on the same side here so you just got owned. Dont try to cop out now. Why ask for proof if your just gonna deny it for no logical reason just cause you wont admit that you are WRONG. Come on just stop wasting everyones time. This is over.:toliet



Why do I get the feeling I'm arguing with a major delinquient? I asked for proof that Hulk could *lift* a 150 billion ton mountain. I was not given any proof of Hulk *lifting* a 150 billion ton, I was instead given a cover of Hulk *bracing* a 150 billion ton mountain. If _you_ know anything about physics then you would know that _bracing_ and _lifting_ are different

Did I ever deny that Wolverine was above a normal human? Did I deny that he wasn't a good martial artist? Did I ever deny that adamantium could cut diamond?

If I did then find those posts for me


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

In Wolverine, vol3. #43, Wolverine is shown regenerating all of his bodily tissue after being incinerated down to his skeleton. In Excalibur vol. 1 #100, the Xavier Protocols reveal that the removal of adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton increased his healing factor to "incredible levels" and that the only way to kill him is to remove his head from the vicinity of his body.

In addition to advanced healing, the regenerative qualities of his healing powers cause Wolverine to age much more slowly than an ordinary human. The Origin limited series, set in the 19th century, depicts Wolverine as a youth. However, Wolverine is depicted in modern stories, set well over 100 years later, with the appearance and vitality of a man in his prime.

Wolverine possesses superhumanly acute vision, hearing, and smell, allowing him to track and identify individuals by scent alone and see clearly in near total darkness. Wolverine possesses some degree of superhuman strength: in Uncanny X-Men vol. 1 #111, Wolverine proves that he is physically strong enough to break steel chains, and in Wolverine vol. 2 #1, Wolverine was seen lifting perhaps a dozen men who piled on top of him, throwing them through a wooden wall. Wolverine's mutant healing factor heightens his physical stamina to superhuman levels. In X-Men vol. 2 #5 Wolverine displays his physical stamina during a fight with Omega Red that lasts more than 18 hours, despite regular exposure to Omega Red's death spores. Wolverine has also demonstrated that his agility and reflexes are also enhanced to levels that are beyond the human body's natural limits, displayed by dodging Cyclops' optic energy beams at point blank range in Wolverine: Origins #5.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Wikpiedia FTW


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Wikpiedia FTW


LOL, I did not want to use that but I could not find my pics


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

What's the point with it anyway? I know perfectly well that Wolverine could manhandle just about anyone that isn't 'abnormal'


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

The marvel site states that he was able to lift 800lbs, and in the comic he lifts more then that and throws them thrue a wall.... I was just trying to show that he does have the strenght to cut thru greed's armor.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

So you know the strength needed to cut diamond?


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> So you know the strength needed to cut diamond?



Indeed I do lol, j/p  Greed does not seem to be made out of Diamond to me


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

He's made out of carbon diamond, that's even tougher


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## Kinjishi (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Toamato sauce!



Potato Salad



> No, I'm wasn't trying to prove a point. I was asking you to stop saying 'concession', instead you did the real mature thing to continously do it. I threatened to neg rep because *I know* you care about your rep



LOL. U threatened to neg me cause you had no good answer to my post, dont try and blame it on a little word. Whos getting mad, huh? Dont be afaid of the word concede. It something you should be used to be now.   



> I meant the Marvel Directory is most of the time wrong. Captain America is listed as _peak human_ but he consistently pulls feats no normal human can do



So then I guess wikipedia is wrong as well huh? 

"Captain America is as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be without being considered superhuman."

Hence the word _PEAK_ human condition. He has reached the limit of the human being. The only one wrong here is you! 



> I'm _wasting_ your time because alot of idiots here use the stupid reason that simply because adamantium is harder than diamond, Wolverine wins
> 
> Well those idiots don't know much. They're the same people that probably thought Wolverine could beat Zoro



But I've constantly proven to you that Wolverine wins regardless of whether his Adamantium cuts or not. And you seem to be the only one who would think otherwise. 

You're definitely a OPtard. Wolverine own Zoro hands down. Its an even easier fight than this one. 




> *Find my post where I said Greed will win in a direct confrontation*
> 
> I'll wait



Find your post where you prove Greed would beat wolverine at all in a fight. Im sure its either nonexistent, completely irrational, or already been proven wrong.

Dont worry I'll wait. 



> Why do I get the feeling I'm arguing with a major delinquient? I asked for proof that Hulk could *lift* a 150 billion ton mountain. I was not given any proof of Hulk *lifting* a 150 billion ton, I was instead given a cover of Hulk *bracing* a 150 billion ton mountain. If _you_ know anything about physics then you would know that _bracing_ and _lifting_ are different



First off, you have to see this. LOL. From wiki:


*Spoiler*: __ 



The Hulk possesses immense levels of physical strength. The most well-known incarnation, the Savage Hulk, possesses the greatest potential for immeasurable superhuman strength and *stupendous waste elimination abilities* , often depending on his emotional state. His strength level is commensurate with his anger, spawning the famous quote: "the madder Hulk gets, *the stronger he shits.*" During the Secret Wars limited series, he is shown supporting a 150 billion ton mountain range, although at the time he was using his *"fart power"* to help support it. At his peak during the fight against Onslaught, Jean Grey *farted* on Bruce Banner, bringing out the true Savage Hulk. In Onslaught: Marvel #1, after trading farts with the Hulk, Onslaught angers him to a point where he was able to then *crap heap*s on Onslaught's armor. In Marvel Comics Presents #52, the Hulk shatters an asteroid twice the size of the Earth with a single* fart.* The Hulk possesses highly developed leg muscles and is able to leap several *toilets *at a time. In Incredible Hulk vol.2 #33, he is shown covering a distance of 1,000 *toilet lids* in a single leap. In Incredible Hulk vol.2 #254, he is shown leaping into a low-Earth orbit and into a space shuttle's *toilet* with a single leap. In Tales to Astonish #73, the the Leader, unsuccessfully, attempts to discover the limits of the Hulk's screaming shits using his advanced technology. Doc Samson makes a similar attempt in Incredible Hulk vol.1 #228, also without success."



I did not at all alter that quote. I'm sure you wouldnt have anything to do with it. Its a real shame that wiki can be altered like that. Now they are gonna lock that page.

Anyway, back to business. You saw him support it right. I believe this all originated when you said that Hulk is a shitty hand to han combatant. I said that despite your claims he has immense strength to take the place of his fighting prowess. If some some reason this does not satisfy as to the strength of the Hulk then you must have a serious brain problem. Additionally that would probaly be considered a mid level feat compared to some of his other shows of strength. So how about you drop the stupid act. I dont see why for some reason, you are trying to prove the Hulk is weak. Hes not so get over it. Additionally he is stronger than Colossus, just so u know

So after all thats out the way, lets get back to the point of this thread. Wolverine will defeat Greed because:

Superior fighting ability

Regeneration well capable of healing anything Greed can do to wolverine from mere seconds to minutes

Adamantium claws capable of cutting diamond. 

A muramasa blade capable of splicing at the molecular level

Superhuman stamina, agility, and reflexes

Strength capable of lifting 800lbs clear over his head

Berserker rage


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## Red (Nov 7, 2006)

the mistake gooba is making is thinking that greeds shield is diamond...it's not diamond!!!! we know that it has hardness like diamond thats why we compare it using diamonds when i reffer to it's molecular intregrity and crap like that but we know that it is waaaay more durable than diamond

*Spoiler*: __ 



the first time greed fights ed ed's automail shatters 



so it is safe to assume that diamond's hardness along with the durability of some unknown factor are the characteristics of greeds armour.....which we know is damn resistant so a simple hammer wont dent it neither would a slash from wolverine

Greed would defeat wolverine cause

wolverine cant cut through greeds armour even with the mm blade

greeds healing pwns wolverine's


greed is an experienced and skilled h2h fighter

greed's strenght is unspecified but he can put a crater in the ground with a few punches..

greed cant die without two essential things(alchmey circle,he's bit from his original body)which I doubt wolverine will have onhim

greed is smexy


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## Orion (Nov 7, 2006)

thats anime^ in manga u just have to keep killing them till their stone messes up.


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## konflikti (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't know about you but to me homunculus regeneration as you say it always seemed more like limited reincarnation and not actual regeneration.

I don't see how Greed is going to defeat Wolvie besides knock-out.


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

Red said:


> the mistake gooba is making is thinking that greeds shield is diamond...it's not diamond!!!! we know that it has hardness like diamond thats why we compare it using diamonds when i reffer to it's molecular intregrity and crap like that but we know that it is waaaay more durable than diamond
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> ...



First of all, you cant say that wolverine can't cut thrue Greeds armor.... Greed is yet to fight anyone Like Wolverine...EVER....Shatering Ed's auto mail is not a big deal, I happens all the time lol. 

Greeds Healing PWNS???? Dont think so. I dont think that a man who can come back from just his bones can be pwned in the healing area...

Now then about the hand to hand  Wolverine is over 100 years old, He was in the army with Captian America, he knows martial arts, used to be  samurai, is called the ULTIMATE KILLING MICHINE, and was also an assasain  I think that wolverine has the hand to hand advantage. Not only that I dont even think Greed would be able to stand up to his speed. 

Last but not least, So what if greed can make a "creater" in the ground with a FEW punches  Wolverine Is used to taking hard hits from THE HULK, and juggernaut both whom posses more raw power then Greed.


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## Red (Nov 7, 2006)

^if youve read some of my posts with rock lee you would realise that greeds healing power is faster than wolverines own and much more potent...

the shield thing we wont know untill they fight but thats what I believe

greed is close too 600 years old has more experience than wolverine has fought in more wars and it is implied that he was also an assasin used by dante with the other homunculi to start wars....

greed can come back to life after dying while it is very hard to kill wolverine but after he's dead.. he's dead

greed can take hits from those people even with out his shield and survive

sorry for not going into detail but i've already typed most of my points...it would be a pain to retype them..the only thing left is for you to decide who should win...but my money is on greed..


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## Hamaru (Nov 7, 2006)

Red said:


> ^if youve read some of my posts with rock lee you would realise that greeds healing power is faster than wolverines own and much more potent...
> 
> the shield thing we wont know untill they fight but thats what I believe
> 
> ...



Greed helps START wars Wolverine FIGHTS in them. Also Taking a hit from Ed does not mean he would be able to take one from the HULK with out armor


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## earthshine (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Also which Greed is this? Is this the original or new one? If it's the original then Wolverine is the better h2h if it's the new one then Wolverine is outmatched
> 
> Here's some scans to give you an idea of new Greed
> 
> ...





the great wrath was getting matched by a human who was only using one hand. clearly, he is not as far above wolverine as you say. greed had nothnig to block wrath's attacks, and was used to being able to use his sheild. wolverine could slice through wrats swoprds like butter, add to that that wrath can't cut off any paprt of wolverines body(which is the only way to kill him) and you see that wolverine would easily take wrath.









> Greed would defeat wolverine cause
> 
> wolverine cant cut through greeds armour even with the mm blade
> 
> ...





greed dies each tim,e he takes a hit that would kill a human, it's just that the stone he has revives him. however, it is not limitless. while wolverine heals, greed dies an comes back, and while wolverine can heal from damage an unlimited number of times, and greed only has a fixed amount of times, wolverine outclasses him in endurance.

I give you the smexy thing though.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> LOL. U threatened to neg me cause you had no good answer to my post, dont try and blame it on a little word. Whos getting mad, huh? Dont be afaid of the word concede. It something you should be used to be now.



No. I was being the bigger man and dropping it because I admitted I was wrong. I also requested that you stop being a prick

YOu didn't



> So then I guess wikipedia is wrong as well huh?
> 
> "Captain America is as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be without being considered superhuman."
> 
> Hence the word _PEAK_ human condition. He has reached the limit of the human being. The only one wrong here is you!



Do you want me to bring Endless Mike in here? He has posted vast amounts of scans doing things no human can and Endless Mike > You in comic knowledge



> But I've constantly proven to you that Wolverine wins regardless of whether his Adamantium cuts or not. And you seem to be the only one who would think otherwise.



Wait, how does he hurt Greed if his adamantium can't work?



> You're definitely a OPtard. Wolverine own Zoro hands down. Its an even easier fight than this one.



Wait......what?



> Find your post where you prove Greed would beat wolverine at all in a fight. Im sure its either nonexistent, completely irrational, or already been proven wrong.



Because I never said it. Find where I stated it



> First off, you have to see this. LOL. From wiki:
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



The fact is that Wikipedia =/= comics. Comics are the most canon things, do you want to keep your Hulk > all thing despite everyone proving you wrong in the Marvel VS DC thread?



> Anyway, back to business. You saw him support it right. I believe this all originated when you said that Hulk is a shitty hand to han combatant. I said that despite your claims he has immense strength to take the place of his fighting prowess. If some some reason this does not satisfy as to the strength of the Hulk then you must have a serious brain problem. Additionally that would probaly be considered a mid level feat compared to some of his other shows of strength. So how about you drop the stupid act. I dont see why for some reason, you are trying to prove the Hulk is weak. Hes not so get over it. Additionally he is stronger than Colossus, just so u know



And Hulk does suck at h2h combat, I haven't seen him ever do anything that requires much skill expect punch



> So after all thats out the way, lets get back to the point of this thread. Wolverine will defeat Greed because:
> 
> Superior fighting ability



Did you look at my scans?

Greedling will make a mockery of Wolverine



> Regeneration well capable of healing anything Greed can do to wolverine from mere seconds to minutes



Wrong. Wolverine consistently takes minutes (even days) if he lost a hand or arm. Gluttony had the top part of his body blown off and he regenerated in seconds



> Adamantium claws capable of cutting diamond.



But Wolverine isn't



> A muramasa blade capable of splicing at the molecular level



And how often does he use that weapon?



> Superhuman stamina, agility, and reflexesp



Greedling also is superhuman



> Strength capable of lifting 800lbs clear over his head



Useless against the shield



> Berserker rage



I'm wondering, do you actually read the comics or do you just get it all from Wikipedia. I haven't seen you post one scan or refer to a single page. The pages you did bring where either already on Wikipedia or already posted here


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

earthshine said:


> the great wrath was getting matched by a human who was only using one hand. clearly, he is not as far above wolverine as you say. greed had nothnig to block wrath's attacks, and was used to being able to use his sheild. wolverine could slice through wrats swoprds like butter, add to that that wrath can't cut off any paprt of wolverines body(which is the only way to kill him) and you see that wolverine would easily take wrath.



Wait are you dumb? I'm sorry to say this but just because Wrath was matched by a human then he's human level?

Did you ignore the fact he can dodge bullets? Did you ignore the fact that he's fast enough to impale Greed *FOUR* times with *FOUR DIFFERENT SWORDS BEFORE HE HITS THE GROUND*? Did you ignore the fact he has the body strength to cut a human being straight in two?

I could say that Naruto guys suck because they're _only human_. Has the thought ever gone through your head that _maybe_ that person Wrath is fighting is also superhuman?

I mean did you look at the scans I posted or just the select few. What that ninja girl was doing was stuff *no normal* human could do. Wrath and Ling are leagues above her

God are people stupid?

*A HOMUNCULUS REGENERATION IS LEAGUES ABOVE WOLVERINE'S EVEN WITH THE BIGGEST JOBBING*

Wolverine needed to find his legs to get his legs back. Envy regend them back. 

Wolverine took minutes to get back from being burnt to a crisp. Lust took seconds

Wolverine can't regen limbs without the bone. Any homunculous regens them back in seconds

Wolverine cannot survive without a brain. Greed and Gluttony have had their brain destroyed and they have regened it back


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 7, 2006)

Actually, he CAN survive with brain damage, though it will take a while to heal it back to normal. Wolverine once gave Sabretooth an adamantium lobotomy, and Sabretooth eventually healed it up. Took him a few weeks, though, IIRC.


----------



## Renegade (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Wolverine cannot survive without a brain. Greed and Gluttony have had their brain destroyed and they have regened it back


Wolverine's regened back from a single cell after having his entire body destroyed, *including* his brain...


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Darklyre said:


> Actually, he CAN survive with brain damage, though it will take a while to heal it back to normal. Wolverine once gave Sabretooth an adamantium lobotomy, and Sabretooth eventually healed it up. Took him a few weeks, though, IIRC.



Was that in Wolverine #90? I believe that was Wolverine with his bone claws and required Psylockes help



Renegade said:


> Wolverine's regened back from a single cell after having his entire body destroyed, *including* his brain...



Umm when was this? That's bullcrap anyway since he couldn't regen his hand in AoA and was killed by a Sentinel Blast in 'Days of Future Past'


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## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> He's made out of carbon diamond, that's even tougher


As opposed to...what *other* kind of diamond, exactly?

Diamonds *are* carbon.  There aren't "silicon diamonds" or "titanium diamonds".

The strength required to slice off a piece of diamond is significantly less than what's required to stab through it or shatter it with a hammer.



Forte.EXE said:


> Wolverine took minutes to get back from being burnt to a crisp. Lust took seconds


Lust wasn't burned down to only a skeleton, she just had skin burns and called it "a death".  Logan regenerated from *only* his skeleton, much like the Hulk did when Vector flash-fried him.



> _Wolverine cannot survive without a brain. Greed and Gluttony have had their brain destroyed and they have regened it back_


I think it's at least safe to assume that most of his brain was at least singed away in the heat of Nitro's blast.

I mean...everything *else* was burned away.


----------



## Renegade (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Umm when was this? That's bullcrap anyway since he couldn't regen his hand in AoA and was killed by a Sentinel Blast in 'Days of Future Past'


During Civil War Saga:
X
X
X
X
X

Bullcrap, eh?


----------



## Shizor (Nov 7, 2006)

Renegade said:


> During Civil War Saga:
> X
> X
> Link removed
> ...



umm, you realize bone cells are cells, right?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> As opposed to...what *other* kind of diamond, exactly?
> 
> Diamonds *are* carbon.  There aren't "silicon diamonds" or "titanium diamonds".



Well the natural ones. Those made from compressing coal or whatever



> The strength required to slice off a piece of diamond is significantly less than what's required to stab through it or shatter it with a hammer.



Except that Greed isn't exactly diamond, it was heavily implied that he's as hard as diamond



> Lust wasn't burned down to only a skeleton, she just had skin burns and called it "a death".  Logan regenerated from *only* his skeleton, much like the Hulk did when Vector flash-fried him.



Prove that Logan's brain was destroyed. Prove that Hulk was only a skeleton. If I remember correctly, he still had some skin



> I think it's at least safe to assume that most of his brain was at least singed away in the heat of Nitro's blast.



But not destroyed



Renegade said:


> During Civil War Saga:
> Link removed
> Link removed
> Link removed
> ...



*Prove that his brain was completely destroyed*

You can't right? I think it's time for you to read your own scans like Crimson King


----------



## Gooba (Nov 7, 2006)

> Did you ignore the fact he can dodge bullets? Did you ignore the fact that he's fast enough to impale Greed FOUR times with FOUR DIFFERENT SWORDS BEFORE HE HITS THE GROUND? Did you ignore the fact he has the body strength to cut a human being straight in two?


Wolverine dodges bullets all the time, cuts metal robots in half (sometimes insanely durable ones too), and has demonstrated the speed needed to impale someone 4 times before they hit the ground.


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Well the natural ones. Those made from compressing coal or whatever


What the hell do you think coal is?

"Natural" diamonds are made from carbon.  Coal is a form of carbon.

Are you not in highschool or something?



> _Except that Greed isn't exactly diamond, it was heavily implied that he's as hard as diamond_


"Implied"...not stated.  We just know it's a form of carbon.  We *know* that Wolverine has razors made of stronger stuff than diamond.



> _Prove that Logan's brain was destroyed. Prove that Hulk was only a skeleton. If I remember correctly, he still had some skin_


Prove it *wasn't*, especially given the fact that every *other* gelatinous-like organ *was* burned away.

Hulk had skin hanging off of him, and some hair and scalp still left from, but still had more flesh on his frame than Logan does when Nitro uses his amped up power on him.


Right column, second panel, where Nitro is on the phone and says "the way of all flesh".  Do you see a brain in his skull?



> _But not destroyed_


I repeat, do you see a brain in that skull in the above picture?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Gooba said:


> Wolverine dodges bullets all the time, cuts metal robots in half (sometimes insanely durable ones too), and has demonstrated the speed needed to impale someone 4 times before they hit the ground.



Scans

Also was it dodging or was it reacting to the gun?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> What the hell do you think coal is?
> 
> "Natural" diamonds are made from carbon.  Coal is a form of carbon.
> 
> Are you not in highschool or something?



Science was never my forte



> "Implied"...not stated.  We just know it's a form of carbon.  We *know* that Wolverine has razors made of stronger stuff than diamond.



Did I deny adamantium is harder?



> Prove it *wasn't*, especially given the fact that every *other* gelatinous-like organ *was* burned away.



So even if it was destroyed then are we meant to only use Wolverine's high end feats and ignore his greater amount of lower end regen? Tell me, is it possible that Wolverine could regen from only a skeleton? If this really was the case then why did his healing factor nearly give in when he had his adamantium removed (which is a far lesser wound)? If he could regen from that in minutes (and his regen was consistently at that level) then really punches from people like Namor or Wonderman shouldn't even phase him



> Hulk had skin hanging off of him, and some hair and scalp still left from, but still had more flesh on his frame than Logan does when Nitro uses his amped up power on him.



Which was my point, Hulk wasn't reduced to mere bone



> Right column, second panel, where Nitro is on the phone and says "the way of all flesh".  Do you see a brain in his skull?
> 
> I repeat, do you see a brain in that skull in the above picture?



If you want to go exactly by the art then why not explain the varying length and width of Wolverine's claws?


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Science was never my forte


Then don't talk about what is physically possible for someone to do with a mythical metallic alloy bonded to his skeleton with razor sharp claws laced with the same material.



> _Did I deny adamantium is harder?_


Did I say you denied it?



> _So even if it was destroyed then are we meant to only use Wolverine's high end feats and ignore his greater amount of lower end regen?_


You say show scans of Wolverine healing the same kinds of injuries that Greed does/can, and we do.  Don't renegotiate *now*.  It happened.  This wasn't even _Ultimate_ X-Men...this is 616 continuity. 





> _Tell me, is it possible that Wolverine could regen from only a skeleton?_


I just showed you he did.  Why ask a question to which you already know the answer to?  If you're asking about the realistic plausibility, then no...but then...Adamantium doesn't plausibly exist in the first place...

...but we're talking about the context of the comic book. 


> _If this really was the case then why did his healing factor nearly give in when he had his adamantium removed (which is a far lesser wound)?_


The shock of it happening shorted it out for a time (it taxed itself out trying to keep Logan's body together during when at its original factor of healing).  Then it recovered and increased leaps and bounds because the adamantium's toxicity was removed from his body.  When Genesis tried rebonding it to his bones, he rejected it, and his healing factor increased even *further*, turning him his most feral form yet.  Then, when Apocalypse succeeded in rebonding it, his healing factor was still at the amped-up levels it was when he rejected the second implantation, and you can presume that whatever means Apocalypse used to succeed (Celestial technology, his own, whatever) was a better bond than his first one with Weapon X. 


> _If he could regen from that in minutes (and his regen was consistently at that level) then really punches from people like Namor or Wonderman shouldn't even phase him_


He fought the Hulk and lived.  Fuck Namor and Wonderman.



> _Which was my point, Hulk wasn't reduced to mere bone_


No...your point is that Wolverine can't penetrate 1st Greed's "Ultimate Shield".



> _If you want to go exactly by the art then why not explain the varying length and width of Wolverine's claws?_


Perhaps because the artist interpreted Wolverine to have claws of different lengths?

What does that have to do with "Ultimate Shield" versus razor sharp adamantium claws?


----------



## Azure-kun (Nov 7, 2006)

Carbion is a very simple molocule to find in the human Body...Greed might just get out lucky if wolverine splices past however how his Greed supose to kill someone that eats Proton cannons and Nitro explosions for breakfest?


----------



## Gooba (Nov 7, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Scans
> 
> Also was it dodging or was it reacting to the gun?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> Then don't talk about what is physically possible for someone to do with a mythical metallic alloy bonded to his skeleton with razor sharp claws laced with the same material.



I never said adamantium cannot cut diamond. I'm saying that Wolverine doesn't have the strength to do that



> Did I say you denied it?





> "Implied"...not stated. We just know it's a form of carbon. We know that Wolverine has razors made of stronger stuff than diamond.



You at least implied it, if you didn't mean that then why did you have you keep telling me something I got the first fifteen thousand times in this thread



> You say show scans of Wolverine healing the same kinds of injuries that Greed does/can, and we do.  Don't renegotiate *now*.  It happened.  This wasn't even _Ultimate_ X-Men...this is 616 continuity. I just showed you he did.  Why ask a question to which you already know the answer to?  If you're asking about the realistic plausibility, then no...but then...Adamantium doesn't plausibly exist in the first place...
> 
> ...but we're talking about the context of the comic book.



I'm not debating whether it's canon or not. I'm debating whether it's valid to use, you are familar with the term 'jobbing' right?



> The shock of it happening shorted it out for a time (it taxed itself out trying to keep Logan's body together during when at its original factor of healing).  Then it recovered and increased leaps and bounds because the adamantium's toxicity was removed from his body.  When Genesis tried rebonding it to his bones, he rejected it, and his healing factor increased even *further*, turning him his most feral form yet.  Then, when Apocalypse succeeded in rebonding it, his healing factor was still at the amped-up levels it was when he rejected the second implantation, and you can presume that whatever means Apocalypse used to succeed (Celestial technology, his own, whatever) was a better bond than his first one with Weapon X.



Ummmm are these assumptions because I've never heard of something Logan's healing factor is somehow improved by Apoc



> He fought the Hulk and lived.  Fuck Namor and Wonderman.



Nearly everyone has fought Hulk and lived, there's nothing special about it



> No...your point is that Wolverine can't penetrate 1st Greed's "Ultimate Shield".



And given most (95% of the time) circumstances, I stand by that



> Perhaps because the artist interpreted Wolverine to have claws of different lengths?



Check Venom: Run 2

Wolverine's claws range from paper thin claws as long as a pencil to something three times the size of his head and twice as thick before.

All happened in the same issue as well



> What does that have to do with "Ultimate Shield" versus razor sharp adamantium claws?



Nothing. I'm was pointing out the fact you can't take completely drawing to prove a point, why don't I harp on about the fact that in this picture, Nitro see's Logan in the reflection and not his. I'm no science buff but I'm sure that's not possible


----------



## EvilMoogle (Nov 7, 2006)

Mohkay said:


> Carbion is a very simple molocule to find in the human Body...Greed might just get out lucky if wolverine splices past however how his Greed supose to kill someone that eats Proton cannons and Nitro explosions for breakfest?


That's one thing that's interesting.  Sure the human body's about 18% carbon, which should be sufficient to make a reasonable defense from (wiki says 16kg in a 70kg adult), but that carbon's got to come from somewhere.

There's only so much that can be claimed from fat and "unneeded" parts of the body, if he's taking carbon from anywhere else he's going to have problems because of that (muscles have a fair amount of carbon in them, but he kind of needs those to fight yes?).


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Gooba said:


>



Aren't some of those Golden Age or something?


----------



## Gooba (Nov 7, 2006)

I already showed a scan of a robot he cut in half.

There is no "Golden Age" Wolverine, there is just Wolverine.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 7, 2006)

Some different

Wolverine didn't have to pull four swords out of their sheaths, that counts for a big difference

Second that didn't look like a robot, maybe get the other pages to show it's context

Third they weren't exactly bullet dodging, the one with Nuke was bad aimming (I mean some of the bullets hit the ground) while the other guy missed by like a mile. He also didn't dodge a laser, those guys were terrible shots

Of course that would be hypocritical of me to deny Wolverine capable of dodging bullets for and Wrath can, I'll drop Wrath to 'reacting' to bullets if you'll do the same for WOlverine


----------



## Gooba (Nov 7, 2006)

Cyclops is an amazing shot, it is part of his powers, Wolverine is just amazing at reacting to them so that he misses, as well as bullets.  90% of the time someone is dodging a bullet that is what they are doing.

While he doesn't need to unsheath 4 swords, going over to the wall, cutting out a rectangle, then going back and getting it under him would take a lot longer if they were both the same speed.


----------



## Azure-kun (Nov 7, 2006)

EvilMoogle said:


> That's one thing that's interesting.  Sure the human body's about 18% carbon, which should be sufficient to make a reasonable defense from (wiki says 16kg in a 70kg adult), but that carbon's got to come from somewhere.
> 
> There's only so much that can be claimed from fat and &quot;unneeded&quot; parts of the body, if he's taking carbon from anywhere else he's going to have problems because of that (muscles have a fair amount of carbon in them, but he kind of needs those to fight yes?).



   Oush, although I never read FMA (I thought the anime was abit easier to understand, also the copy rights are from Action corp so I assumed there weren't fillers) I always assumed that Greed's Ultimate shield worked by sacraficing other cells in his body inorder to Get the Carbons he needs to defend himself.(which makes great sense for why he wanted al and his "Immortality")     if I'm right about this(Which I doubt since i don't read the manga) wolverine isn't gonna have a very fun time fighting Greed.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

How can I debate against that

With _that_ skill, Wolverine turns Greed into a sandwhich

I concede this arguement


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> No. I was being the bigger man and dropping it because I admitted I was wrong. I also requested that you stop being a prick
> 
> YOu didn't



 



> Do you want me to bring Endless Mike in here? He has posted vast amounts of scans doing things no human can and Endless Mike > You in comic knowledge



Go ahead and get Endless Mike to do your fighting for you. I assume you havent seen the Darkseid vs. Broly or Surtur vs Onslaught threads. He got his ass kicked. And so are you. Go and hide behind Endless Mike. LOL, i bet you believe everything that comes out his mouth. 




> Wait, how does he hurt Greed if his adamantium can't work?



It was established over and over and over already. READ the rest of the thread.



> Wait......what?



Um u heard it the first time. i wont repeat it



> Because I never said it. Find where I stated it



So you say Wolverine wins? Because from what I recall you said:



			
				Forte.EXE said:
			
		

> If this was a battle to the death then Greed wins.



Now either eat your words or support your claims!



> The fact is that Wikipedia =/= comics. Comics are the most canon things, do you want to keep your Hulk > all thing despite everyone proving you wrong in the Marvel VS DC thread?



Wikipedia does not equal false. And did you even read what I spoiler tagged? I think not. It was a joke. I doubt you even can read. 

But the reality is Hulk>Greed. Wolverine>Greed. Prove otherwise.



> And Hulk does suck at h2h combat, I haven't seen him ever do anything that requires much skill expect punch



I never said otherwise. I did say however that his strength well makes up for the fact that he is usually inferior to his opponent in terms of h2h.



> Did you look at my scans?
> 
> Greedling will make a mockery of Wolverine



Do you mean the scans of Greed getting owned by Wrath. Oh yeah good choice on your part. No Greed ever equaled Wolverine in h2h. 



> Wrong. Wolverine consistently takes minutes (even days) if he lost a hand or arm. Gluttony had the top part of his body blown off and he regenerated in seconds



I said Wolverine heals fast enough to heal anything Greed can do to him.



> But Wolverine isn't



Prove otherwise. An ordinary human can scratch diamond with diamond. Wolverine is no ordinary human and possess' razor sharp claws that are made from material harder and more durabable than diamond. 



> And how often does he use that weapon?



His latest reincarnation uses the Muramasa. 



> Greedling also is superhuman



So. Wolverine has better stamina, agility, and reflexes.



> Useless against the shield



I believe this has already been addressed above.



> I'm wondering, do you actually read the comics or do you just get it all from Wikipedia. I haven't seen you post one scan or refer to a single page. The pages you did bring where either already on Wikipedia or already posted here



Apparantly I own more comics than you own brain cells. Ive posted scans. I dont scan my own comics. They are in perfect condition. In fact I am miles from my comics, in college right now. But im guessing your still in Junior High School. Ive read more comics than months you have lived.


----------



## earthshine (Nov 8, 2006)

that's cosmic level.




seriosuly though, how will greed hurt wolverine?


he reguraly takes hits from some of the biggest guys in the game and it don't take him down. and from what I have seen greed does not hit all that hard.


the inly factor here is weather or not greed can be cut, but other than that it is all wolves. better healing(limitless), can't really be hurt by physical attacks, and has a skeleton made of indestructible metal.



also, as to wrath: he was able to dodge bullets thanks to his ultimate eye, skill had nothnig to do with it. same as his fighting ability, while he is very fast, the real factor is his eye. without it, greed would have pwned him, and he would be nowhere near as powerful a fighter.


wolverine does things just like that with just skill and instinct, he does not need a magic eye. wrath is not as fast or strong as other humonculi, including greed. the reason he pwned him so bad is two fold: one, greed was unarmed. he was not fast enough to dodge wrath, but he would most likely have been able to block and parry had he had a weapon, and two is the fact that wraths eye allowed him to predict grred's moves and actions, the damn thing makes the sharingan look like crap.


seriously, wrath is good, but he is not THAT good. wolverine would pwn the shit out of him((again, since wolves skeleton is laced with adamantium, wrat's steel swrod can't cut it), especially when you consider the fact that wraths swords can do no real damage at all, and can be sliced through easily.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


>



You're maturity shows



> Go ahead and get Endless Mike to do your fighting for you. I assume you havent seen the Darkseid vs. Broly or Surtur vs Onslaught threads. He got his ass kicked. And so are you. Go and hide behind Endless Mike. LOL, i bet you believe everything that comes out his mouth.



And who got their bottom handed to them in the Marvel vs DC thread?

Sure wasn't me nor Mike



> It was established over and over and over already. READ the rest of the thread.





			
				rocklee036 said:
			
		

> But I've constantly proven to you that *Wolverine wins regardless of whether his Adamantium cuts or not*. And you seem to be the only one who would think otherwise.



Prove Wolverine can win *if* adamantium can't cut it



> Um u heard it the first time. i wont repeat it



I bet you wikipedia-ed that as well right?



> So you say Wolverine wins? Because from what I recall you said:
> 
> Now either eat your words or support your claims!



*Battle of Death* is incredibly ambigous. I meant that under the impression that Wolverine can't kill Greed (16 times at least)

If they can't permenently kill each other then it's the first to see who dies of old age. And Wolverine will die of old age first (which is probably in around 100 years)

[quopte]Wikipedia does not equal false. And did you even read what I spoiler tagged? I think not. It was a joke. I doubt you even can read. [/quote]

I read it, it wasn't funny. It was a lame attempt at humour 

Here, we prefer to use scans, honestly you haven't given me any evidence that _you_ have read the comics. Just repeated Wikipedia use in both this thread and the Marvel vs DC thread



> But the reality is Hulk>Greed. Wolverine>Greed. Prove otherwise.



Wow, I love your logic and reasoning



> I never said otherwise. I did say however that his strength well makes up for the fact that he is usually inferior to his opponent in terms of h2h.



Which is moot because Wolverine is not Hulk



> Do you mean the scans of Greed getting owned by Wrath. Oh yeah good choice on your part. No Greed ever equaled Wolverine in h2h.



Nor did I say so. However I wouldlike to see *you* post scans (or at least refer to issues) that Wolverine has done anything I have posted

Not what Gooba or Shidoshi has used, your own evidence



> I said Wolverine heals fast enough to heal anything Greed can do to him.



And I didn't deny this



> Prove otherwise. An ordinary human can scratch diamond with diamond. Wolverine is no ordinary human and possess' razor sharp claws that are made from material harder and more durabable than diamond.[/qupte]
> 
> So just because it's harder, Wolverine instantly wins? Please, Greed isn't someone Wolverine will get a good cut at
> 
> ...


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

earthshine said:


> seriosuly though, how will greed hurt wolverine?



A common misconception this thread has is that I said Greed can kill Wolverine



> he reguraly takes hits from some of the biggest guys in the game and it don't take him down. and from what I have seen greed does not hit all that hard.



Very true, can't debate this



> the inly factor here is weather or not greed can be cut, but other than that it is all wolves. better healing(limitless), can't really be hurt by physical attacks, and has a skeleton made of indestructible metal.



Wow, never heard anyone say that before.



> also, as to wrath: he was able to dodge bullets thanks to his ultimate eye, skill had nothnig to do with it. same as his fighting ability, while he is very fast, the real factor is his eye. without it, greed would have pwned him, and he would be nowhere near as powerful a fighter.



What....? Wrath can run up walls. Greed can't do that (otherwise he would have owned Ed), Wrath was in complete control

Then again, Wrath is superhuman. I mean slicing a human with a normal sword clean in half ain't special right? I mean my grandma could do that. 

Also Wrath is overrated! He sucks without the Ultimate Eye! Just like Greed sucks without the Ultimat Shield and Wolverine sucks without his healing factor!



> wolverine does things just like that with just skill and instinct, he does not need a magic eye. wrath is not as fast or strong as other humonculi, including greed. the reason he pwned him so bad is two fold: one, greed was unarmed. he was not fast enough to dodge wrath, but he would most likely have been able to block and parry had he had a weapon, and two is the fact that wraths eye allowed him to predict grred's moves and actions, the damn thing makes the sharingan look like crap.



God, I can't believe this. 
You could say Wolverine sucks because he needs his healing factor too much. 
Naruto sucks because he needs Kyuubi to much. 
Spiderman sucks because he needs his precog too much. 
Itachi sucks because he has the Mangekyou Sharingan. 
Flash sucks because he can just steal anyone's speed and go back in time. Superman sucks because he's on average strong as the Hulk and can go light speed

Please, it's his weapon. He uses it



> seriously, wrath is good, but he is not THAT good. wolverine would pwn the shit out of him((again, since wolves skeleton is laced with adamantium, wrat's steel swrod can't cut it), especially when you consider the fact that wraths swords can do no real damage at all, and can be sliced through easily.



God, I post evidence and you downplay it like the whole thing was something anyone can do

What the hell? Seriously


----------



## earthshine (Nov 8, 2006)

> What....? Wrath can run up walls. Greed can't do that (otherwise he would have owned Ed), Wrath was in complete control
> 
> Then again, Wrath is superhuman. I mean slicing a human with a normal sword clean in half ain't special right? I mean my grandma could do that.
> 
> Also Wrath is overrated! He sucks without the Ultimate Eye! Just like Greed sucks without the Ultimat Shield and Wolverine sucks without his healing factor!




greed was an ageless humonculi, therfore he would have been fater and stronger than a heavily aged Wrath(who gets weaker with age). again, wrath is not physically as powerful as the others, due to his aging.






> God, I can't believe this.
> You could say Wolverine sucks because he needs his healing factor too much.
> Naruto sucks because he needs Kyuubi to much.
> Spiderman sucks because he needs his precog too much.
> ...



I was just pointing out that it was not just pure skill and power that allows wrath to do what he does, he knows every possible outocme of a given situation. you where maing it out like he was just using skill an speed.





> God, I post evidence and you downplay it like the whole thing was something anyone can do
> 
> What the hell? Seriously



tell me ONE way for wrath to beat wolverine. just one.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

earthshine said:


> greed was an ageless humonculi, therfore he would have been fater and stronger than a heavily aged Wrath(who gets weaker with age). again, wrath is not physically as powerful as the others, due to his aging.



Yes I kinda know that. I do read the manga as well. The fact remains that currently he's still 'superhuman'



> I was just pointing out that it was not just pure skill and power that allows wrath to do what he does, he knows every possible outocme of a given situation. you where maing it out like he was just using skill an speed.



Did you forget that knowing what will happen is useless if you can't react? Didn't Lee say that to Sasuke? Same applies here. It doesn't matter if you know someone's going to punch you, if you can't react or move fast enough then you're going to have a sore jaw



> tell me ONE way for wrath to beat wolverine. just one.



Just because someone can't beat someone, doesn't mean they're weaker. Spiderman doesn't have anyway of killing Wolverine, does that make him weaker. Zoro doesn't have anyway of killing Wolverine, does that make him weaker?


----------



## earthshine (Nov 8, 2006)

> Yes I kinda know that. I do read the manga as well. The fact remains that currently he's still 'superhuman'



who said he was not? I was just stating that greed was strogner and faster than him, demonstrationg kust how much the eye matters.






> Did you forget that knowing what will happen is useless if you can't react? Didn't Lee say that to Sasuke? Same applies here. It doesn't matter if you know someone's going to punch you, if you can't react or move fast enough then you're going to have a sore jaw




wrong. sharignan predicts opponents current move, UE predicts ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS THAT CAN HAPPEN. see the diffrience?





> Just because someone can't beat someone, doesn't mean they're weaker. Spiderman doesn't have anyway of killing Wolverine, does that make him weaker. Zoro doesn't have anyway of killing Wolverine, does that make him weaker?




wrath has done nothnig wolverine can't do so far. woverine has been shown to be equal or better.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

earthshine said:


> who said he was not? I was just stating that greed was strogner and faster than him, demonstrationg kust how much the eye matters.



Current Greed is probably equal in speed and strength. What proof is there that original Greed is stronger and faster?



> wrong. sharignan predicts opponents current move, UE predicts ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS THAT CAN HAPPEN. see the diffrience?



Was that ever stated?



> wrath has done nothnig wolverine can't do so far. woverine has been shown to be equal or better.



That's a _incrediby_ illogical arguement. Wolverine has done greater feats than Mihawk Dracule. Does that mean Wolverine > Mihawk Dracule?

Please say yes. I haven't laughed in a long time


----------



## earthshine (Nov 8, 2006)

> Current Greed is probably equal in speed and strength. What proof is there that original Greed is stronger and faster?




again, wrath has gotten weaker with age. your saying he is so uber that even with his weakining as he grows old he is still superiour? also, current greed would pwn him, he was able to keep up with him as a normal human, say nothnig of his new superhuman powers.






> Was that ever stated?




look up the explanation of his eye.






> That's a incrediby illogical arguement. Wolverine has done greater feats than Mihawk Dracule. Does that mean Wolverine > Mihawk Dracule?
> 
> Please say yes. I haven't laughed in a long time




you seem to like goin by feats, so I though I would put it that way. also, mihawk cuts entire ships in half with a single swing of his swordm, without even touching them. wolverine has shown nothnig like that.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

earthshine said:


> again, wrath has gotten weaker with age. your saying he is so uber that even with his weakining as he grows old he is still superiour? also, current greed would pwn him, he was able to keep up with him as a normal human, say nothnig of his new superhuman powers.



You do realize that becoming Greed only gives you the powers of the stone right? You do read FMA do you?

It was also not stated that growing old will make him 'weaker' in the sense he loses strength or speed. It means he just can't do superhuman feats for as long

And Ling isn't a normal human, he's superhuman as well. Or is cutting the top part of someone's head and hand off normal as well?



> look up the explanation of his eye.



Was it one of my posts?

Anyway it doesn't refute my point. *It doesn't matter if you know someone is going to hit you, if you can't REACT then you're screwed*



> you seem to like goin by feats, so I though I would put it that way. also, mihawk cuts entire ships in half with a single swing of his swordm, without even touching them. wolverine has shown nothnig like that.



I was going by feats to *prove that Greed is no slouch*. You happen to like downplay them

Anyway, Logan can cut Mihawk! He isn't made of anything stronger than adamantium!

Sounds familiar? That's just some of the retarded logic people have said in this thread


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> You're maturity shows



And your ignorance defies human capacity



> And who got their bottom handed to them in the Marvel vs DC thread?
> 
> Sure wasn't me nor Mike



My ass kicked. Ha. I barely argued seeing as I was the OP. All I argued was that Hulk should not be underestimated. He is physically the strongest one in the fight. And that Scarlet Witch + Dr Strange can pretty much end the fight in their own right. No one has even argued against that seeing as the continuously dodge it and get wrapped up in a Hulk vs Superman argument or Flash vs Quicksilver. Until someone can find an argument that would counter the Scarlet Witch, DC is actually at the mercy of Marvel. So you lose again just like you are now. 





> Prove Wolverine can win *if* adamantium can't cut it



Why when I proved he can cut it.



> I bet you wikipedia-ed that as well right?



Is that your only excuse when you cant prove me wrong. That I wikied something just cause you cant accept the fact that u are be slaughtered right now. 



> *Battle of Death* is incredibly ambigous. I meant that under the impression that Wolverine can't kill Greed (16 times at least)
> 
> If they can't permenently kill each other then it's the first to see who dies of old age. And Wolverine will die of old age first (which is probably in around 100 years)



No a *battle* to the death means they actually duke it out. Not who can live longer.  



> I read it, it wasn't funny. It was a lame attempt at humour



I didnt think it was very funny either considering I wasnt the one who wrote it. I actually incinuated that you were the one who did it but i guess i was wrong. So forget it. 



> Here, we prefer to use scans, honestly you haven't given me any evidence that _you_ have read the comics. Just repeated Wikipedia use in both this thread and the Marvel vs DC thread



So just because you cant see the actually comic means everthing is false. You are a retard. Shows you cant read and need pictures to help you understand anything. Fact is Fact whether its a scan or in words. 


> Wow, I love your logic and reasoning



What logic.
Hulk > Greed and Wolverine > Greed. Fact



> Which is moot because Wolverine is not Hulk



You are the one who was arguing whether Hulk was strong or not. You just got smashed in the process.



> Nor did I say so. However I wouldlike to see *you* post scans (or at least refer to issues) that Wolverine has done anything I have posted
> 
> Not what Gooba or Shidoshi has used, your own evidence



If we are all arguing the same position I dont think you need anymore evidence. If I had a comic in my vicinity right now I would post you a damn scan. Until November 21 I physically can not do so. But I expect the dozens of scans already posted will suffice anyway. 



> And I didn't deny this



Again and again and again I make you eat your own words.


*Spoiler*: __ 





			
				ME said:
			
		

> Regeneration well capable of healing anything Greed can do to wolverine from mere seconds to minutes





			
				YOU said:
			
		

> Wrong. Wolverine consistently takes minutes (even days) if he lost a hand or arm. Gluttony had the top part of his body blown off and he regenerated in seconds








> So just because it's harder, Wolverine instantly wins? Please, Greed isn't someone Wolverine will get a good cut scan of anything you want.



Again I will repeat it for you to understand.

A normal human can scratch diamond with diamond.

Wolverine is not a normal human and is using adamantium (which is harder than diamond) to go up against diamond.

Can you do the math?



> So we're using the latest incarnation? Prove that Wolverine is signicantly faster than Greedling



We are using any incarnation we want. But I expect the most recent would obviuously be the ideal candidate seeing as that is the current incarnation of the character. 



> I've posted scans of Wrath and Ling keeping up with Wrath. Your bias ignored it



?????TYPO??????
What does it prove. Wolverine is still faster.



> I bet you got that from Wikipedia as well right?



 



> Love the cop out
> 
> Do you know how lame the excuse of 'I don't have my scans on me right now' is? Or how old it is? Please, if you did have such a vast collection then you would know that Hulk is hardly the strongest Marvel guy
> 
> But you didn't, until you get a picture of your 'vast' comic collection, your lies won't work here



Yes because I carry my scans everywhere I go like every other person in the world. Im not still living with mommy like you. Hulk is the strongest marvel guy that isnt a cosmic being. But his strength still surpasses even some cosmics. 

Whos the one whos lying. You continuosly make claims and cant back up a single one. Then you bring a bunch of scans that still dont prove anything in terms of Greed beating wolverine. My "lies" are more factual then anything you have said thus far. Tell me one thing that I said that is false and prove that it is false? Hmmmmmm..................................


----------



## earthshine (Nov 8, 2006)

You do realize that becoming Greed only gives you the powers of the stone right? You do read FMA do you?


> It was also not stated that growing old will make him 'weaker' in the sense he loses strength or speed. It means he just can't do superhuman feats for as long
> 
> And Ling isn't a normal human, he's superhuman as well. Or is cutting the top part of someone's head and hand off normal as well?




in FMA, he is only human. MANY people in FMA do things that are impossible in the real world, it is a manga for gods sake.
 also, I belive he sadi ounce that his eye would sometimes show him an option that he would now be unable to take due to his aging.





> Was it one of my posts?
> 
> Anyway it doesn't refute my point. It doesn't matter if you know someone is going to hit you, if you can't REACT then you're screwed




as I sadi, YES, he is fast, I am just saying that he is not amazingly so, it is just that he always knows the PERFECT time, angle and way to attack. I am not arguing that he is a slouch, just that he is not all that uber as physical combat goes(at least in FMA. his eye is a gigantic factor.






> I was going by feats to prove that Greed is no slouch. You happen to like downplay them
> 
> Anyway, Logan can cut Mihawk! He isn't made of anything stronger than adamantium!
> 
> Sounds familiar? That's just some of the retarded logic people have said in this thread




you have done much of the same.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> And your ignorance defies human capacity



Sure thing

Mr. Gai/Itachi/Kakashi can beat Vegeta



> My ass kicked. Ha. I barely argued seeing as I was the OP. All I argued was that Hulk should not be underestimated. He is physically the strongest one in the fight. And that Scarlet Witch + Dr Strange can pretty much end the fight in their own right. No one has even argued against that seeing as the continuously dodge it and get wrapped up in a Hulk vs Superman argument or Flash vs Quicksilver. Until someone can find an argument that would counter the Scarlet Witch, DC is actually at the mercy of Marvel. So you lose again just like you are now.



Your ignorance also defies human capacity

Do you know how fast Flash is? Quicksilver couldn't even hope to reach him



> Why when I proved he can cut it.



Great logic! Wolverine can cut Spiderman, that means he can beat Spiderman!



> Is that your only excuse when you cant prove me wrong. That I wikied something just cause you cant accept the fact that u are be slaughtered right now.



I'm slaughtered right now? That's a awfully objective thing to say right?

You happen to read One Piece right?



> No a *battle* to the death means they actually duke it out. Not who can live longer.



Oh really? I've been here long and that's the first time I've heard that before. 



> I didnt think it was very funny either considering I wasnt the one who wrote it. I actually incinuated that you were the one who did it but i guess i was wrong. So forget it.



Wait what? Are you saying I wrote what you put in spoiler tags?



> So just because you cant see the actually comic means everthing is false. You are a retard. Shows you cant read and need pictures to help you understand anything. Fact is Fact whether its a scan or in words.



So according to that logic, I could simply make up some info, say I can't find the scans and say it's fact? Because really that's what your stating



> What logic.
> Hulk > Greed and Wolverine > Greed. Fact



I can see how you made it past junior high



> You are the one who was arguing whether Hulk was strong or not. You just got smashed in the process.



Oh rly? Do you want me to get the time Spiderman beat Hulk? Do you remember Thor beating both Thing and Hulk? My point was that Hulk *consistently* is not the strongest. You seemingly just like to bring up the same example over and over again, ignoring his low end feats



> If we are all arguing the same position I dont think you need anymore evidence. If I had a comic in my vicinity right now I would post you a damn scan. Until November 21 I physically can not do so. But I expect the dozens of scans already posted will suffice anyway.



They suffice. But all that means is that Logan and Greedling are at similar levels in speed, no where does the scan prove without a doubt that Wolverine *will* cut Greed



> Again and again and again I make you eat your own words.
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...



Post me a page of a *non-jobbered* Logan regening his arm in seconds-minutes

But then again, you could just refer to a issue from your 'vast' collection right?



> A normal human can scratch diamond with diamond.
> 
> Wolverine is not a normal human and is using adamantium (which is harder than diamond) to go up against diamond.



It was never specifically stated that Greed was diamond. It was heavily implied that he is as hard as diamond

Again how does scratching Greed hurt him? Greed could easily regen that?



> Can you do the math?



To Quote Barney on the Simpsons

"Two plus Two is Four"



> We are using any incarnation we want. But I expect the most recent would obviuously be the ideal candidate seeing as that is the current incarnation of the character.



*Any* incarnation? Do you want me to bring in the 'Days of Future Past' Wolverine who was killed by a Sentinel? What about Age of Apocalypse where a small blast to his right hand rendered it completely useless? 

Wait with your 'vast' comic collection, you should know about that right?



> ?????TYPO??????
> What does it prove. Wolverine is still faster.



Post a scan (or refer) to something that proves Wolverine is faster. There hasn't been a scan where is shows him significantly faster than Wrath (who is equal to Greedling)



> Yes because I carry my scans everywhere I go like every other person in the world. Im not still living with mommy like you. Hulk is the strongest marvel guy that isnt a cosmic being. But his strength still surpasses even some cosmics.



So even though Thor has beaten him and Thing at the same time, you still go by the whole Hulk > All stuff?



> Whos the one whos lying. You continuosly make claims and cant back up a single one. Then you bring a bunch of scans that still dont prove anything in terms of Greed beating wolverine. My "lies" are more factual then anything you have said thus far. Tell me one thing that I said that is false and prove that it is false? Hmmmmmm..................................



I never said Greed will kill Wolverine. *Refer to my post which states that*. I posted scans which shows that Greed will not be easily hit

Nothing more, nothing less


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

earthshine said:


> in FMA, he is only human. MANY people in FMA do things that are impossible in the real world, it is a manga for gods sake.
> also, I belive he sadi ounce that his eye would sometimes show him an option that he would now be unable to take due to his aging.



And your proof for this is?



> as I sadi, YES, he is fast, I am just saying that he is not amazingly so, it is just that he always knows the PERFECT time, angle and way to attack. I am not arguing that he is a slouch, just that he is not all that uber as physical combat goes(at least in FMA. his eye is a gigantic factor



Where's your proof that Greed is faster or stronger? 

And just because it's in FMA, doesn't mean he's weaker. Can you prove that he wouldn't _at least_ compete with Wolverine



> you have done much of the same.



Like? Have I said something like Greed can kill Wolverine? Have I said something that adamantium can never cut diamond?


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

@Forte.EXE

Since you somehow continuously keep on dodging the question at hand, I will lay it out for you nice and clear so that even someone of your limited inteligence can understand:

Greed vs Wolverine. Who wins the fight? Answer the question and stop dodging.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> @Forte.EXE
> 
> Since you somehow continuously keep on dodging the question at hand, I will lay it out for you nice and clear so that even someone of your limited inteligence can understand:



Post where I dodged (posts where I admitted my mistake don't count)



> Greed vs Wolverine. Who wins the fight? Answer the question and stop dodging.



If it's in a small room and Wolverine can cut Greed (I'm still not convinced that he can): *Wolverine* wins

If it's in a wide area: Hard to say since Greed can be a coward and run away if he knows he can't beat someone. In this case then if it's ring out then *Wolverine* wins
If it's to the death then *Greed* wins


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

@Forte.EXE

Ok so tell me if this is right.

In a fight between the two, presumably to the death, Wolverine wins.

No running, no interference. Just one vs the other and only one can survive.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

rocklee0036 said:


> @Forte.EXE
> 
> Ok so tell me if this is right.
> 
> ...



And Wolverine was more than capable of cutting diamond, then yes. He would win


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> And Wolverine was more than capable of cutting diamond, then yes. He would win



And thus I think we have come to an agreement. Shall we continue this debate or let it be for now?

And how are you still still convinced? Repeated slashes would certainly do the job, wouldnt you think? Whatever the composition of Greeds armor, it is as hard as diamond. It is carbon based, and the hardest you could get with carbon is diamond. If a diamond can scratch another diamond under normal circumstances then can wolverine not produce a more devastating affect with his claws.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Look, you don't want to argue anymore right? 

I'll drop it then as well


----------



## Kinjishi (Nov 8, 2006)

Agreed and I need SLEEP!............ :sleepy


----------



## Red (Nov 8, 2006)

uuhh this is going to be my last post it's getting waaaaaay to heated for me in terms of agression...
He fought pride not wrath and pride is like destiny he sees all the possible moves and counter attacks them he would be a hard opponent even for wolverine(and note pride didnt cut through his armour but normal skin) ....and even if he fought wrath..wrath is still a tough opponent he has super human strenght,speed and alchmey plus he's insane like wolverine.. even wolverine _*cant*_  defeat wrath..infact wrath would destroy wolverine in an hours gap...what those pics prove is that homounculi are worthy opponents even for the great wolverine...plus about killing him many time..how many times do you think you'd need to kill a homunculus? it's not a small amount though.......in fact it's a very large amount.....
and to the guys who brought the online manga..you have to agree with me greed is hella smexy right there...


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Red said:


> uuhh this is going to be my last post it's getting waaaaaay to heated for me in terms of agression...
> He fought pride not wrath and pride is like destiny he sees all the possible moves and counter attacks them he would be a hard opponent even for wolverine(and note pride didnt cut through his armour but normal skin) ....and even if he fought wrath..wrath is still a tough opponent he has super human strenght,speed and alchmey plus he's insane like wolverine.. even wolverine _*cant*_  defeat wrath..infact wrath would destroy wolverine in an hours gap...what those pics prove is that homounculi are worthy opponents even for the great wolverine...plus about killing him many time..how many times do you think you'd need to kill a homunculus? it's not a small amount though.......in fact it's a very large amount.....
> and to the guys who brought the online manga..you have to agree with me greed is hella smexy right there...



Read the manga

The characters are different


----------



## Renegade (Nov 8, 2006)

Shizor said:


> umm, you realize bone cells are cells, right?


Ummm, you realize the adimantium isn't his actual skeleton, it's raw metal, and is not made up of cells, right? 



Forte.EXE said:


> *Prove that his brain was completely destroyed*
> 
> You can't right? I think it's time for you to read your own scans like Crimson King


The rest of his flesh was completely insinerated, why would his brain be the only thing left in tact...?



Forte.EXE said:


> Except that Greed isn't exactly diamond, it was heavily implied that he's as hard as diamond


Which is nowhere near as strong as adimantium, so what's your point?


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 8, 2006)

This is still going on??? The guy was killed by Ed.... nuff said

And who is endless Mike????


----------



## Red (Nov 8, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> This is still going on??? The guy was killed by Ed.... nuff said
> 
> And who is endless Mike????


Greed allowed that...plus he was near his remains and the alchmey circle needed
Edit:last post


----------



## Orion (Nov 8, 2006)

yet again thats the anime.....were talking about the manga.


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> This is still going on??? The guy was killed by Ed.... nuff said
> 
> And who is endless Mike????



I am, but I don't know why you asked, since I don't even care about this thread....


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Renegade said:


> The rest of his flesh was completely insinerated, why would his brain be the only thing left in tact...?



Because the brain was encased in something called a 'skull'?



> Which is nowhere near as strong as adimantium, so what's your point?



It just means it isn't as brittle as everyone says


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 8, 2006)

A human skull does not completely encase the brain. With the amount of heat needed to completely incinerate all flesh from his body, it would've destroyed his brain either by boiling it to the consistency of soup or burned it through various openings like his nose or ears.


----------



## Renegade (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Because the brain was encased in something called a 'skull'?


It isn't *completely* incased. The human skull has orifices, the heat would have gone through them.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

So if it truly was completely vaporised then this regen can is 100% jobbing


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 8, 2006)

Or it's possible that Wolverine's powers have been enhanced since M - day.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> Or it's possible that Wolverine's powers have been enhanced since M - day.



Wait how is that possible?


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 8, 2006)

Scarlet Witch DID alter reality, and messed with pretty much all mutants.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Darklyre said:


> Scarlet Witch DID alter reality, and messed with pretty much all mutants.



Yes I know about 'No more mutants' but I didn't know that she might have buffed up some's powers


----------



## Gooba (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> Yes I know about 'No more mutants' but I didn't know that she might have buffed up some's powers


Well, she made vulcan pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Red (Nov 8, 2006)

vlaaad12345 said:


> yet again thats the anime.....were talking about the manga.


EDIT: last post I swear I said you can use any greed as long as it helps or contributes to the thread


----------



## Shidoshi (Nov 8, 2006)

Forte.EXE said:


> I never said adamantium cannot cut diamond. I'm saying that Wolverine doesn't have the strength to do that


I'm saying that since you admit that science (physics and chemistry) isn't your forte, then don't try arguing about what's scientifically possible for Wolverine to do with razor sharp claws laced with an indestrcutible metal.



> _You at least implied it, if you didn't mean that then why did you have you keep telling me something I got the first fifteen thousand times in this thread_


No, I didn't imply anything, I *said* that Wolverine was strong enough to slice off pieces of Greed (not stab him like a dagger though).  It requires significantly less force to slice (like ham) than it does to stab through something (like an icepick), as there's less surface area in contact (which reduces the friction).

I'm not arguing something that's already been proven (that Adamantium is harder and more durable than diamond)...that's already been proven.

Pay attention.



> _I'm not debating whether it's canon or not. I'm debating whether it's valid to use, you are familar with the term 'jobbing' right?_


Not really...no.

The only instance of what I guess you'd call "jobbing" is Onslaught physically knocking Classic Juggernaut across the continent, as that goes *completely* against Juggernaut's powers (unless Onslaught had access to greater magic than Cyttorak at that point), otherwise, I tend to view anything that happens canon, unless proven otherwise later (either by a retcon or a retraction).

Wolverine always had the ability to heal.  It's increase in that ability had been explained long before Nitro blew him up.



> _Ummmm are these assumptions because I've never heard of something Logan's healing factor is somehow improved by Apoc_


Pay attention.  I didn't say Apocalypse increased his healing factor, I said he might've had a better adamantium bonding process than what those at Weapon X had, so it would have impacted his increased healing factor less.



> _Nearly everyone has fought Hulk and lived, there's nothing special about it_


In that instance, you could say that there's nothing special about fighting Namor and Wonderman, then.  Since you use it as a benchmark for Wolverine's durability.



> _And given most (95% of the time) circumstances, I stand by that_


You stand by that despite not having an affinity for science.



> _Check Venom: Run 2
> 
> Wolverine's claws range from paper thin claws as long as a pencil to something three times the size of his head and twice as thick before._


There's a difference between deciding to change the length of Wolverine's claws, and deciding to *not* draw and paint a brain inside a skull, when all other organs have burned away.



> _Nothing. I'm was pointing out the fact you can't take completely drawing to prove a point, why don't I harp on about the fact that in this picture, Nitro see's Logan in the reflection and not his. I'm no science buff but I'm sure that's not possible_


Not if you're looking straight at a mirror, no...but if you look at something reflective at an angle, you won't usually see your reflection...or your entire one.

See how science works?


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 8, 2006)

Wait didn't you at least read my post? I said I'm dropping this, Wolverine wins, Greed loses whatever you want

About your last point, are you saying if I stand next to a car (like Nitro did, exactly in front of the window) and look into it, I won't see my reflection. My science does suck but I at least know that's impossible


----------



## Renegade (Nov 8, 2006)

Shidoshi said:


> No, I didn't imply anything, I *said* that Wolverine was strong enough to slice off pieces of Greed (not stab him like a dagger though).  It requires significantly less force to slice (like ham) than it does to stab through something (like an icepick), as there's less surface area in contact (which reduces the friction).


Just for the record, stabbing through something takes less force than slicing through something... There is less surface area to deal with when you're stabbing as apposed to slicing.

Now scratching is a different story.

I agree Wolverine wins this, I just felt the need to refute that statement.


----------



## Red (Nov 9, 2006)

The whole wolverine regenerating from nothing is kinda of a strech..I mean a drop of blood?c'mon marvel is starting to try to be like DC...it is physically immpossible for wolverine to regenrate from his adamantuim not because his regen isnt strong enough but because he would have to gain more materials to regenerate( if any one is conversant with the law of conservation of matter then you would know what i'm trying to say) as far as i know wolverine isnt a god or even a demon...he is still tied to the rules of the universe so how could he magically regain his body in two-three minutes from nothing(dont say he had one cell left cause that explosion incinerated/vapourised all flesh, brain,and even cells..)If someon understands what i'm trying to say please reply...(with sense)


----------



## Endless Mike (Nov 9, 2006)

They usually explain that kind of thing away by saying that they get energy from another dimension or something.


----------



## Red (Nov 9, 2006)

Endless Mike said:


> They usually explain that kind of thing away by saying that they get energy from another dimension or something.


 that means that extra dimensions dont have anything better to do than to give away enregy....


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 19, 2006)

I just want to show what Wolverine did to superman


----------



## Masaki (Nov 19, 2006)

Superman's only steel.

Carbon, when bonded in the right way, becomes the hardest substance on Earth.


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 19, 2006)

^ so do you think Greed can beat Superman? Because I highly doubt that


----------



## Masaki (Nov 19, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> ^ so do you think Greed can beat Superman? Because I highly doubt that



Probably, unless he has some way to undo that bond.


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 19, 2006)

Superman's speed pluss strength cany be matched my Greed


----------



## Masaki (Nov 19, 2006)

Speed, sure.

Power/toughness?  Prove it.


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 19, 2006)

proove that he is not


----------



## Gooba (Nov 19, 2006)

> Superman's only steel.


I assume you are joking.


----------



## Orion (Nov 20, 2006)

^^i really hope so.


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Well caring a skeleton made of a substance harder then steel at all times, and moving fluidly most count for something.





Kick ass moment.



Here he is taking a nuclear missile


----------



## Orion (Nov 20, 2006)

to the dude who thinks greed can beat superman do us a favor and stop posting  greed stands no chance in hell of even hurting superman let alone beating  him he would  be ripped apart in the first second of the fight.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 20, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> I just want to show what Wolverine did to superman



That's the worst photoshopping I've ever seen


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 20, 2006)

I think everyone agrees that superman would break greeds neck lol



Last of the Retards said:


> That's the worst photoshopping I've ever seen



I didn't get it from photoshop


----------



## Gooba (Nov 20, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> I didn't get it from photoshop


The guy who made it did, that is from the Death of Superman, in which Doomsday did that damage to him.


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 20, 2006)

Gooba said:


> The guy who made it did, that is from the Death of Superman, in which Doomsday did that damage to him.



That basterd 
Man you know alot


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> That basterd
> Man you know alot




Um...that?s basic comic book knowledge 101.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 20, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> That basterd
> Man you know alot



Anyone that knows anything about Superman comics would know where that's from


----------



## Hamaru (Nov 20, 2006)

Last of the Retards said:


> Anyone that knows anything about Superman comics would know where that's from



Whelp That does it......I mad myself look like an ass


----------



## Gooba (Nov 20, 2006)

Actually, I lied.  It wasn't Doomsday, it was Squirrel Girl.


----------



## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 20, 2006)

Squirrel Girl is standing on top of Doomsday


----------



## Gooba (Nov 20, 2006)

Yea, she killed him first.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 20, 2006)

Hamaru said:


> proove that he is not



I already did via science.



Gooba said:


> I assume you are joking.



He's called the "Man of Steel".  Prove to me that his power is stronger than steel.


----------



## Gooba (Nov 20, 2006)

Masaki said:


> He's called the "Man of Steel".  Prove to me that his power is stronger than steel.


:rofl Read anything about him, or look in the Goku vs Superman thread for any feat of his.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 20, 2006)

Gooba said:


> :rofl Read anything about him, or look in the Goku vs Superman thread for any feat of his.



Too lazy.

Anyway, this is Greed vs Wolverine.  Since we've determined that the Wolverine vs Superman pic is photoshopped, Superman no longer matters.

Greed's skin is the hardest substance in the world.


----------



## Id (Nov 20, 2006)

Masaki said:


> I already did via science.
> 
> 
> 
> He's called the "Man of Steel".  Prove to me that his power is stronger than steel.



 ..aww.....I got this Goober. 
you really have to dig up some info on the character before you start posting.


Inform yourself fool! 
Flame of Recca


----------



## Renegade (Nov 20, 2006)

Masaki said:


> He's called the "Man of Steel".  Prove to me that his power is stronger than steel.


 

If you know nothing more about Superman other than he was played by Christopher Reeve in the movies, I suggest you not post about him.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 20, 2006)

Renegade said:


> If you know nothing more about Superman other than he was played by Christopher Reeve in the movies, I suggest you not post about him.



I actually mostly know of him from Superfriends-esque shows.  Besides, it's no better than the people who don't know crap about Sonic.

And anyway, he's irrelevant in this arguement, as the only evidence with him was fake.


----------



## Azure-kun (Nov 20, 2006)

Masaki said:


> Probably, unless he has some way to undo that bond.


I'm ready to assume that you've been doping on anime/manga and that you need serious critical treatment.


----------



## Darklyre (Nov 21, 2006)

Masaki said:


> Too lazy.
> 
> Anyway, this is Greed vs Wolverine.  Since we've determined that the Wolverine vs Superman pic is photoshopped, Superman no longer matters.
> 
> Greed's skin is the hardest substance in the world.



You are failing SO hard when it comes to comics.

Adamantium is stronger than diamonds by MULTIPLE FACTORS OF STRENGTH. An Hulk can barely bend it. Most other powerhouses can't even begin to scratch it. Wolverine has been roasted alive, shot at, stomped on by Sentinels, hit with lasers, and god knows what else. In each and every case his adamantium skeleton has been perfectly fine. There are two materials stronger than adamantium in Marvel: Captain America's iron/vibranium shield and whatever magical stuff Thor's Hammer is made from.

And Superman? Not stronger than steel?


----------



## Azure-kun (Nov 21, 2006)

Darklyre said:


> You are failing SO hard when it comes to comics. Superman Not stronger than steel?


  .........stay on the anime battledomes masaki.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 22, 2006)

wonderz said:


> .........stay on the anime battledomes masaki.



Like I said, show me that he is stronger than steel and I'll admit I'm wrong.  Don't link me to some giant post with crap that I don't care about.

And Greed's stronger than diamonds, too.  Aggregated diamond nanorods can be formed from carbon.


Unless you can prove to me that Wolverine can cut through this AND kill Greed with his weakness near him (unless we're talking manga Greed), I won't believe you.


----------



## Azure-kun (Nov 22, 2006)

Masaki said:


> Like I said, show me that he is stronger than steel and I'll admit I'm wrong.  Don't link me to some giant post with crap that I don't care about.
> 
> And Greed's stronger than diamonds, too.  Aggregated diamond nanorods can be formed from carbon.
> 
> ...


....I thought I deleted that post, as for superman being stronger then steel he's eaten bullet shots time and time again, stopped trains,lazer eyes (and to think I'm getting all this from watching the 30's cartoon version) adamnatium has withstood Cosmic blast (yes darkphoeinx does count as such a Being). that much tells me that aggregated diamonds in comparason don't amount to much if it was shot at by dark Phoenix...


this isn't my battle though so I'll leave this thread and leave the rest of the debate in your care.


----------



## Masaki (Nov 22, 2006)

wonderz said:


> ....I thought I deleted that post, as for superman being stronger then steel he's eaten bullet shots time and time again, stopped trains,lazer eyes (and to think I'm getting all this from watching the 30's cartoon version) adamnatium has withstood Cosmic blast (yes darkphoeinx does count as such a Being). that much tells me that aggregated diamonds in comparason don't amount to much if it was shot at by dark Phoenix...
> 
> 
> this isn't my battle though so I'll leave this thread and leave the rest of the debate in your care.



Eaten bullets = fine
Stopped trains = Alright, but according to Gooba, Superman > Goku, and I'm sure Goku can do this.
Lasers = Irrelevant

Either way, Superman doesn't matter.  The only information regarding Superman in this thread was photoshopped.

Care to explain Dark Phoenix now?


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## Orion (Nov 22, 2006)

i believe dark phoenix destroyed adamantium but since she was using cosmic energy its just as likely she just broke the atoms down rather then destroying it with pure force,nothing short of cosmics can  break true adamantium with pure force,true adamantium is leagues above diamonds in terms of durability ect.


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## Darklyre (Nov 22, 2006)

Thor once smacked a piece of adamantium with Mjolnir, with all his strength. He barely dented it. Thor is many, many times stronger than Colossus, and Colossus is able to CRUSH DIAMONDS WITH HIS FINGERTIPS.

And why is he able to cut diamond, not to mention a whole lot of other crap like a foot-thick omnium wall like it was paper? Simple. Adamantium is simply so durable, that you can make it into a blade with an edge only 1 molecule thick. When he cuts or stabs something, that edge is able to wedge it's way between whatever molecules the other object is made of very easily. It's why a katana can through things that are supposedly more durable than the katana itself. The edge is just so sharp that it shears right through.

Oh, and as for Superman? Here's him flying around the middle of a goddamned BLACK HOLE:


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## Masaki (Nov 22, 2006)

Ok, fine.  Now I admit Superman is stronger than life itself.

Wolverine sounds a tad bit overpowered.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 22, 2006)

Wolverine is far from overpowered. It's his healing factor which lets him live for so long

He consistently fights people way out of his league and his still lives because of it


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## Renegade (Nov 22, 2006)

A post I recently came across I thought would be of help:
THE PROPER THREAD


Wolverine is way too overpowered to lose this fight.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 22, 2006)

Just a note but it is confirmed in Wolverine #48 that his brain (and eyes) are intact from the explosion by Nitro


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## Gooba (Nov 22, 2006)

No, it just said that those grew back first.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 22, 2006)

Really? They grew back pretty quickly then


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## Gooba (Nov 22, 2006)

If you look at the pictures of him before he passes out you can see his eyes are gone, and the holes are just black.  Then he takes a while to regrow them and that is when he can see again.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 22, 2006)

Ummm yeah well that Atlantian chick is pretty hot


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## Chibi-Usa (Nov 22, 2006)

Wolverine


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## earthshine (Nov 22, 2006)

so, this fight is over then.


greed can die, wolverine can't. guess this ends it.


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## Gooba (Nov 22, 2006)

Last of the Retards said:


> Ummm yeah well that Atlantian chick is pretty hot


Wolverine is a freaking pimp.  Then again, Greed is too.  I should make a Wolverine vs Greed at pimping battle.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Nov 22, 2006)

Gooba said:


> Wolverine is a freaking pimp.  Then again, Greed is too.  I should make a Wolverine vs Greed at pimping battle.



Don't worry Goobie, I know

[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha expected that


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## Red (Dec 26, 2006)

now notice how it takes wolverine a day to heal up completely.
it would take greed 3-4 hours tops.

greed wins


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## Orion (Dec 26, 2006)

Red said:


> now notice how it takes wolverine a day to heal up completely.
> it would take greed 3-4 hours tops.
> 
> greed wins



current wolverine has healed from a skeleton in about 5 minutes now so might wanna rethink your argument lol,fact is wolverine cant die now unless he wants to,so he can keep cutting greed up until greed finnaly runs outta stone and dies himself.


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## Red (Apr 16, 2007)

feitan said:


> current wolverine has healed from a skeleton in about 5 minutes now so might wanna rethink your argument lol,fact is wolverine cant die now unless he wants to,so he can keep* cutting greed up until greed finnaly runs outta stone and dies himself.*


Flawed logic, it hasnt been proven that he can even cut through jack.


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## Darklyre (Apr 16, 2007)

Quit necroing.

And also, adamantium > diamond, which is the best Greed can do. Logan would fucking tear him to shreds.


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## Red (Apr 17, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> Quit necroing.
> 
> And also, adamantium > diamond, which is the best Greed can do. Logan would fucking tear him to shreds.


Who said he was made out of diamonds? Stop making assumptions.His skin is the hardest thing known to man.

I brought this thread back up cause it was never resolved correctly.


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## Darklyre (Apr 17, 2007)

Diamond is the hardest naturally-occuring substance that we know of. The only thing harder are various artificial forms of carbon nano-rods, which only beat diamond by a little bit.

Logan's skeleton is bloody adamantium, which has let him withstand NUCLEAR BLASTS. Thor, who is stronger than Colossus, once smashed a piece of adamantium with Mjolnir and barely dented it. Colossus is powerful enough to crush diamonds with his fingertips.

As for how sharp it is, his bone claws alone were sharp enough to cut through most metals. With the adamantium, he cut through Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.


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## Sylar (Apr 17, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> Diamond is the hardest naturally-occuring substance that we know of. The only thing harder are various artificial forms of carbon nano-rods, which only beat diamond by a little bit.
> 
> Logan's skeleton is bloody adamantium, which has let him withstand NUCLEAR BLASTS. Thor, who is stronger than Colossus, once smashed a piece of adamantium with Mjolnir and barely dented it. Colossus is powerful enough to crush diamonds with his fingertips.
> 
> As for how sharp it is, his bone claws alone were sharp enough to cut through most metals. *With the adamantium, he cut through Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.*



Thats ballgame, folks.


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## Red (Apr 17, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> *Diamond is the hardest naturally-occuring substance that we know of. The only thing harder are various artificial forms of carbon nano-rods, which only beat diamond by a little bit.*
> 
> Logan's skeleton is bloody adamantium, which has let him withstand NUCLEAR BLASTS. Thor, who is stronger than Colossus, once smashed a piece of adamantium with Mjolnir and barely dented it. Colossus is powerful enough to crush diamonds with his fingertips.
> 
> As for how sharp it is, his bone claws alone were sharp enough to cut through most metals. With the adamantium, he cut through Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.


Like I said your making assumptions. It's like me comparing adamantuim to Inconel 625, while the hardest metal IRL cant compete with adamantuim. And therefore the whole wolverine can cut diamonds therefore he can cut greeds shield is moot.

cutting through thanos? is he more durable than greed? if yes then how so?


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## Havoc (Apr 17, 2007)

Well then this fight is a tie.


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 17, 2007)

Red said:


> Like I said your making assumptions. It's like me comparing adamantuim to Inconel 625, while the hardest metal IRL cant compete with adamantuim. And therefore the whole wolverine can cut diamonds therefore he can cut greeds shield is moot.



Well, the burden of proof is on you in this case.  If you want to suggest that Greed's shield is stronger than diamonds, then you need to provide the evidence of this.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 17, 2007)

Darklyre said:


> With the adamantium, he cut through Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.



That's complete jobbing


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## Hamaru (Apr 17, 2007)

This thing is still going on???? @ Gai, What happend to all of your post?


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 18, 2007)

Hamaru said:


> This thing is still going on???? @ Gai, What happend to all of your post?



It's what happens when they went over 9000


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## Red (Apr 18, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Well, the burden of proof is on you in this case.  If you want to suggest that Greed's shield is stronger than diamonds, then you need to provide the evidence of this.


It's stated in the series that greeds shield is the strongest Hence the name ultimate shield. and the name holds true.


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 18, 2007)

Red said:


> It's stated in the series that greeds shield is the strongest Hence the name ultimate shield. and the name holds true.



Okay, and what's the second strongest thing shown in their universe?  Diamonds?

So all that really says is Greed's shield is at least as strong as diamonds.  If it's stronger we don't know if it's 0.01% stronger or 1000000% stronger.


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## Red (Apr 18, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> Okay, and what's the second strongest thing shown in their universe?  Diamonds?
> 
> So all that really says is Greed's shield is at least as strong as diamonds.  If it's stronger we don't know if it's 0.01% stronger or 1000000% stronger.


Why do you keep going back to diamonds? well as you say it's too vague to accurately gauge it. but it is the strongest and Nothing has pierced it. so for all intents and purposes it rivals wolverines adamantium.


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 18, 2007)

Red said:


> Why do you keep going back to diamonds? well as you say it's too vague to accurately gauge it. but it is the strongest and Nothing has pierced it. so for all intents and purposes it rivals wolverines adamantium.



That's a no-limits fallacy though.  We only know it's as strong as whatever the strongest attack it took was.

If Wolverine's claws are stronger than the strongest attack it's taken, then we have no reason to believe that it would withstand that.  It's the "ultimate defense" in FMA, not in the multiverse of fiction.


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## Giovanni Rild (Apr 18, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> That's a no-limits fallacy though.  We only know it's as strong as whatever the strongest attack it took was.
> 
> If Wolverine's claws are stronger than the strongest attack it's taken, then we have no reason to believe that it would withstand that.  It's the "ultimate defense" in FMA, not in the multiverse of fiction.



If He's diamond, it's as durable as diamond. Has Logan ever cut diamond before? Because that's your anwser.


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## Pintsize (Apr 18, 2007)

Greed is heavily implied to be made of a diamond like substance, yet it is obviously not diamond, for if it were, his skin would crack every time he moved. 

I think the easiest way to figure out exactly how hard or slice resistant his skin would be, would to take the known amounts for human skin, but substitute the hardness of skin with the hardness of diamond.

Organic, living diamond, maybe?

I still think Wolverine can cut it, but I think he might actually have to try, for once.


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## Red (Apr 19, 2007)

EvilMoogle said:


> That's a no-limits fallacy though.  We only know it's as strong as whatever the strongest attack it took was.
> 
> If Wolverine's claws are stronger than the strongest attack it's taken, then we have no reason to believe that it would withstand that.  It's the "ultimate defense" in FMA, not in the multiverse of fiction.


You cant make the assumption that wolverine can cut through it though. 

It seems this would be a draw.


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## EvilMoogle (Apr 19, 2007)

Red said:


> You cant make the assumption that wolverine can cut through it though.
> 
> It seems this would be a draw.



What the @#$@ kind of logic is that?

By your logic "Ichiraku Ramen Guy vs. Gozer the Destructor" would be a draw because we've never seen Ramen Guy hurt by anything.

We don't know that Greed's shield is any stronger than the strongest attack it's taken (well, we know it's slightly stronger than the strongest attack it's taken).  If Wolverine's attack is stronger than this there is no reason to assume that Greed would be protected without proof of some kind.

This thread was finished a long time ago, let it die.


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## Red (Apr 20, 2007)

Lol. no the thread hasnt ended yet since we do not know the clear winner.

To gauge greed's power lets have a comparison between sloth and greed.

Sloth and greed have almost equal toughnes



			
				wiki said:
			
		

> Sloth seems to have a resistance to damage that rivals Greed



using that as a yard stick, and keeping moogle's idea of attack=resistive power. It is fairly safe to assume that wolverine cant cut throught it.


Sloth took a couple of rounds and a full how many ton tank. If sloth can take this greed can too. And unless wolverines punches way more than several tons greed isnt gonna be effected


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## Hamaru (Apr 20, 2007)

Godspeed Redux said:


> If He's diamond, it's as durable as diamond. Has Logan ever cut diamond before? Because that's your anwser.



In the Marvel world the only thing he can't cut is adamantium itself, and Caps sheild.


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## omg laser pew pew! (Apr 20, 2007)

Just a note but Greed's shield was not stated to _be_ diamond but *hinted* to be as tough as diamond. That's why he's flexible like you and me, if he was diamond then he would be stiff like a scarecrow


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## Crimson King (Apr 21, 2007)

Who keeps bringing up the bullshit about wolverine not being able to cut diamond? wolverine can cut though anything except adamantium and Captain America's indestructible shield.


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