# Sage Mode Naruto vs. Avatar State Aang



## Commander Shepard (Feb 9, 2009)

Who wins?  Battle is in the Wulong Forest, the place where Ozai and Aang fought.  Naruto does not have prep time and cannot do summons.

As far as I know this hasn't been done yet.


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## Onomatopoeia (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang because I like him better.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 9, 2009)

If Aang lost to Kazekage Gaara, how is he going to be SM Naruto?


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## Azure Flame Fright (Feb 9, 2009)

By flying and spamming rocky railgun death.

SM Naruto is too physical a fighter to do anything to Aang.


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## Narcissus (Feb 9, 2009)

The thing is, Gaara has an eviromental advantage.  Bender did not give Naruto prep, so his Sage Mode will only last 5 minutes, unless Bender says otherwise.

However, I can see Sage Naruto tanking nearly anything Aang throws at him, except energybending.


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## masamune1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> By flying and spamming rocky railgun death.
> 
> SM Naruto is too physical a fighter to do anything to Aang.



FRS?

**


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## Azure Flame Fright (Feb 9, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> However, I can see Sage Naruto tanking nearly anything Aang throws at him, except energybending.



His durability is enough to tank the Rocky Railgun of death since when?


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## Narcissus (Feb 9, 2009)

Didn't he fall on top of a bunch of pointy mountains without a scratch, and before completing Sage Mode?

I'll try and find the scan.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Feb 9, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> Didn't he fall on top of a bunch of pointy mountains without a scratch, and before completing Sage Mode?
> 
> I'll try and find the scan.



Well, that may have happened, but even so, pointy mountains don't really compare to large AoE cliff destroying rock railguns.


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## The Bloody Nine (Feb 9, 2009)

Yeah they do when he destroyed said rock structures by landing on them. That and the fact that Peins sword things broke when they hit him. 

Silly thread is silly.


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## Narcissus (Feb 9, 2009)

Link removed



> Well, that may have happened, but even so, pointy mountains don't really compare to large AoE cliff destroying rock railguns.



This is true, and Aang has the advantage of flight.  However, with this feat, and the Rhino, I can see Naruto tanking at least the majority of Aang's attacks.  Naruto's best chance will be a frog song genjutsu from Ma and Pa.

Sill waiting on Bender to say if Naruto is staying in Sage Mode, or if it'll only last 5 mins.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 9, 2009)

Naruto fell on some spikes while in Sage Mode. That's what we've seen from his durability so far. As for Gaara, he would more than likely have an environmental advantage in an area such as his village, as we've seen from him fighting Deidara. If anything, Naruto can take it, but it'll take some difficulty since he'll have to get past Aang's bending skills, not to mention his Avatar State and Energy Bending.


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## Banhammer (Feb 9, 2009)

Naruto's durability will serve him well when he's drowning in lava or hurled to the atmosphere.
And I'm not even bringing the obvious easy win through energybending.


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## FrostXian (Feb 9, 2009)

Meh. They would probably forgive each other and skip trough the forest.

Also, you're all forgetting how fast Naruto is. Aang couldn't even hit Mr.Jetfirefrommyfeet, SageNaruto can easily dodge most, if not all, of Aang's attacks.


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## Stan Lee (Feb 9, 2009)

Naruto,if he uses summons.



Miyamoto Musashi said:


> Naruto fell on some spikes while in Sage Mode. That's what we've seen from his durability so far.



You forgot that he was durable enough to stop a thousand ton Rhino.


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## Banhammer (Feb 9, 2009)

Jet has been pulling those gay "jumping through trees" feats for a few years now.
Avatar Aang can travel much faster than that, and more important, can travel upwards.
Then again, speed is meaningless when you can do something as nefity as sink the whole place in lava.


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## Federer (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang can fly, create eartquakes, shoot wind, fire, use all the water nearby to drop on Naruto, is a monk, so his fighting level is over 9000!!!!! 

And Naruto can only use Hermit mode for 5 minutes, after that Aang can take his chance and win this fight.


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## SmashSk8er (Feb 9, 2009)

Yea I can see Aang just burying him underground or just spamming fireballs. Naruto still need ground to walk on and if he jumps in the air, well that's what airbending is for. Aang can also accelerate himself with airbending. Of course there's always the chance that Naruto will put a kunai in his head before he can do anything, I dont know if he has hightend sense in the Avatar state. ^_^


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## Banhammer (Feb 9, 2009)

SmashSk8er said:


> Yea I can see Aang just burying him underground or just spamming fireballs. Naruto still need ground to walk on and if he jumps in the air, well that's what airbending is for. Aang can also accelerate himself with airbending. Of course there's always the chance that Naruto will put a kunai in his head before he can do anything, I dont know if he has hightend sense in the Avatar state. ^_^



earthbending pre-cog. The wind just makes him stab himself in the eye.


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## Fang (Feb 9, 2009)

Or you know, considering how Naruto is several fold faster than Aang and far stronger and more durable, he punches Aang's head off.

Not that it matter but his Wind bending isn't affecting the Fuuton Rasengan Shuriken. Not unless there are evidence of Aang bending magic energy + nature energy + elemental energy in his show.

Senjutsu Naruto takes this easily.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 9, 2009)

For those wondering, Naruto has no prep time, so he's limited to five minutes.


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## ipakmann (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang beats naruto with ease and since when is naruto fast at all?


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## Xaosin (Feb 9, 2009)

ipakmann said:


> Aang beats naruto with ease and since when is naruto fast at all?



Link removed

.5 seconds later:

Link removed.

This is similar to a Bleach vs Kyuubi Naruto fight, you have someone with insane power (Sage Naruto) vs an opponent with insane speed and with insane durability (Spirit Aang). 

Tho if this is without prep time and in Naruto's current sage mode with what we've seen so far, Aang takes this simply because he can outlast Naruto.

If Naruto jumps 20 feet, Aang flys higher.
If Naruto summons a 50 foot toad, Aang jumps on his buffalo and flys off.

For Aang this really is only a matter of him staying away from Naruto for 5 minutes, than demolishing him. And spirit Mode Aang last a lot longer than 5 min. (I think,can anyone confirm this?)


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## Fang (Feb 9, 2009)

Mini-Kyuubi Naruto was never impaled by Orochimaru's sword. Orochimaru even commented that the infamous Kunasangi couldn't pierce the chakra shroud of the Kyuubi. What he did do was send Naruto flying several hundred feet with the force of his attack, into a boulder.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 9, 2009)

herewegodudes said:


> For Aang this really is only a matter of him staying away from Naruto for 5 minutes, than demolishing him. And spirit Mode Aang last a lot longer than 5 min. (I think,can anyone confirm this?)



The Avatar State kept Aang cryogenically frozen in an iceberg for 100 years, so yeah, it lasts a loooooooooong time.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang flys high into the sky and unleashes a masive firestorm

naruto tanks it but with all the surrounding air gone he dies a horrible suffocating death


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 9, 2009)

Grandmaster Kane said:


> Aang flys high into the sky and unleashes a masive firestorm
> 
> naruto tanks it but with all the surrounding air gone he dies a horrible suffocating death



Before or After Naruto Blitzengan the shit out of him ?


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## Banhammer (Feb 9, 2009)

TWF said:


> Or you know, considering how Naruto is several fold faster than Aang and far stronger and more durable, he punches Aang's head off.
> 
> Not that it matter but his Wind bending isn't affecting the Fuuton Rasengan Shuriken. Not unless there are evidence of Aang bending magic energy + nature energy + elemental energy in his show.
> 
> Senjutsu Naruto takes this easily.



energy bending and Chi flow FTW?


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## CrazyMoronX (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang is in avatar state and begins to fly up into the sky.

Before he gets 10 feet off the ground he eats a giant Senjutsu Oodama Rasengan and dies.


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## Fang (Feb 9, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> energy bending and Chi flow FTW?



He's going to bend three different forms of energy at once? He's going to ignore the several fold clones Naruto can make which are all now infinitely more durable? He's going to avoid several Fuuton Rasengan Shurikens tossed at him?

Or Naruto leaping after him with his clones tossing him higher to tag him?


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## Shock Therapy (Feb 9, 2009)

Aang can fly pretty fast, and naruto can only make a max of 3 clones with prep. Without prep he can't make any clones with sage chakra. yeah naruto gets raped.


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## Narcissus (Feb 9, 2009)

SM will only last for 5 minutes, and there is nothing to stop Aang from freezing Naruto with the water safely from the sky.

This match is in no way one sided at all for either, meaning Aang will definitely last longer than five minutes, and after Naruto loses his SM chakra, he'll be dead in only 5 seconds. 

Now, no time restriction on Naruto might be another story.


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## Grandmaster Kane (Feb 9, 2009)

Yagami1211 said:


> Before or After Naruto Blitzengan the shit out of him ?



Before silly goose. 

But seriously avatar verse is all about sick reaction speed


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## RWB (Feb 10, 2009)

Yeah, Aang avoiding the explosion of combustion man's beam, Iroh redirecting natural lightning and stuff.

3:41.
gameplay footage


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## Banhammer (Feb 10, 2009)

Well, now that I think about it, to became one with nature and infuse himself with it's properties is probably not a good idea against the spirit of Earth.
I say SM makes him even more vunerable to Avatar State, and he just bends his head away.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 10, 2009)

TWF said:


> He's going to bend three different forms of energy at once? He's going to ignore the several fold clones Naruto can make which are all now infinitely more durable? He's going to avoid several Fuuton Rasengan Shurikens tossed at him?
> 
> Or Naruto leaping after him with his clones tossing him higher to tag him?



Stop with bending?  No.  But due to the wind chakra in the rasenshurikens, he could weaken them.  And then block them with couple thick rock pillars.  Or just avoid the rasenshuriken.

And don't exaggerate Naruto's power.  He can only do two rasenshurikens (well, two per clone).

God Realm

And make only three clones in battle.

God Realm

Wow... I think that's the first time I've actually linked to scans.


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## Tendou Souji (Feb 10, 2009)

Aang takes this handily. He's in the Avatar State so that sorta screws with Naruto's chances there.

It would be more interesting if Naruto had prep though.


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## Superrazien (Feb 10, 2009)

Naruto distracts Aang with some Frog Summons, then kills him with one punch.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 10, 2009)

No summons.  That's kind of the way I always prefer battles.  Summons is like bringing a whole other character into the battle.  This is Aang vs. Naruto, not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads.

Besides, Myobokuzan isn't even in the same dimension.  Naruto and Aang are fighting in the Avatarverse.  Summons won't work.


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## Shock Therapy (Feb 10, 2009)

Then naruto gets killed. He's not tanking a constant barrage of rail gun rocks, giant fire whips and hurricane level winds.


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## Stan Lee (Feb 11, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> No summons.  That's kind of the way I always prefer battles.  Summons is like bringing a whole other character into the battle.  This is Aang vs. Naruto, not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads.
> 
> Besides, Myobokuzan isn't even in the same dimension.  Naruto and Aang are fighting in the Avatarverse.  Summons won't work.



Summonings are just a ninja tool.


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## Seijun Togiretogire (Feb 11, 2009)

Xenomorph said:


> Summonings are just a ninja tool.



Puppets are just a ninja tool.

Summons have minds of their owns and do w/e they feel like doing whenever they feel like doing it. Not so with puppets, shuriken, kunai, smoke, and tags.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

Exactly.  If Naruto summoned Gamabunta, he could just sit it out and not fight.


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 11, 2009)

Seijun Togiretogire said:


> Puppets are just a ninja tool.
> 
> Summons have minds of their owns and do w/e they feel like doing whenever they feel like doing it. Not so with puppets, shuriken, kunai, smoke, and tags.



Kishimoto disagree : Link removed


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## Narcissus (Feb 11, 2009)

Animals were stated as being ninja tools, and many other charactes from different series use summons/creatures to fight.

You're free to ban them, but they are tools used for fighting.


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## White Knight (Feb 11, 2009)

summons do have a mind of there own but some just take orders from those who summoned them animals are considerd ninja tools when they are apart of there masters like shino and his insects


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

Kiba always has Akamaru, they've been lifelong friends, Akamaru obeys his every word, and Akamaru is not a summon.

On the other hand, Naruto has not known toads all his life.  They don't have to obey him.

Link removed


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## White Knight (Feb 11, 2009)

right which means the toads can't be considerd tools right


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## Gunners (Feb 11, 2009)

> Kiba always has Akamaru, they've been lifelong friends, Akamaru obeys his every word, and Akamaru is not a summon.
> 
> On the other hand, Naruto has not known toads all his life. They don't have to obey him.
> 
> Link removed


Gamabunta accepted him right there and then. It's foolish to think that if he summoned them they wouldn't offer him any help.

The guy specifically referred to them as a tool anyway, which they are. They are essentially something used to accomplish a goal. If they choose not to cooperate they are an ineffective tool, but a tool none the less.

Also if someone hasn't had a sword all his life, is it suddenly not a tool in a fight?


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

What?  He didn't help Naruto because he was summoned.  He helped because his son had been "bullied around" by Shukaku.

Viewing sentient creatures as "tools" is a very heartless view.   Sure, they can help you, but only of their own volition.  They're separate  beings entirely.  Thus, this thread remains Aang vs. Naruto, not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads.  Unless Appa gets to be in the fight.  jk.


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## Narcissus (Feb 11, 2009)

This thread is Naruto vs Aang because you made it that way as the OP, and not because of the summons not being tools, which they are.  It's the reason you had to actually ban them in the first place.

The relationship between another living being and the fighter doesn't matter (Kiba and Akamaru, Shino and his bugs, Oro and the 1st and 2nd) because they are still tools.


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## Gunners (Feb 11, 2009)

> What? He didn't help Naruto because he was summoned. He helped because his son had been "bullied around" by Shukaku.


And a couple pages futher.
Link removed
We have Gamabunta acknowledging Naruto. If summoned he would now help Naruto in a fight, I don't see why he wouldn't.


> Viewing sentient creatures as "tools" is a very heartless view. Sure, they can help you, but only of their own volition. They're separate beings entirely. Thus, this thread remains Aang vs. Naruto, not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads. Unless Appa gets to be in the fight.  jk.


It would remain that way, till Naruto summons them to battle.


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## Banhammer (Feb 11, 2009)

Naruto can do competent sumoning now?


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

Hanabishi Recca said:


> And a couple pages futher.
> Link removed
> We have Gamabunta acknowledging Naruto. If summoned he would now help Naruto in a fight, I don't see why he wouldn't.
> 
> It would remain that way, till Naruto summons them to battle.



But... he did that of his own volition.  If he ever wanted to, he could still ignore Naruto.

Ok, reason for no summoning:

I'm the OP and I say so.
The toads don't exist in the dimension Naruto and Aang are fighting in.


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## Antitard (Feb 11, 2009)

Lol.. Naruto blitzes Aang. He simply punches his head off before Aang lifts his arms to bend. 

When did Aang's lightning feat get taken literally? The naruto-hate ruins double standards since he is viewed as a statue against OP characters, but when Naruto can throw giant rhinos and given the speed feat where he stopped Demon Pain from raping tsunade, this shouldn't even be a question.

Avatar state Aang only gives him more power. This will be over in less than a minute


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## Stan Lee (Feb 11, 2009)

Yagami1211 said:


> Kishimoto disagree : here



Beat me to it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

Again, Akamaru =/= toad summons.


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## Stan Lee (Feb 11, 2009)

Wasn't Avatar Kyoshi's wind strong enough to move an island?


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 11, 2009)

It may have been a combination of wind, earth, and waterbending.  But yes, she could move a whole island.


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## Banhammer (Feb 11, 2009)

roku was strong enough to sink one too.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 11, 2009)

Link removed

Summons in general should count in a battle


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## Banhammer (Feb 11, 2009)

depending on wether or not the fight is in Narutoverse.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 12, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Del Nido believes in Jimenez, who´ll be Sevilla coach at least until end of season.
> 
> Summons in general should count in a battle



Let me ask you something:  Is it possible to make a Gamabunta vs. thread here?  Where he is the sole combatant on one side? 

He's a separate being entirely, not a tool.  This is not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads.


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## Xirk (Feb 12, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:
			
		

> He's a separate being entirely, not a tool.



Whether or not you consider summons tools, summoning's just a combat ability Naruto possess', I don't see how it's relevant if their technicly tools or not.

I don't see why Naruto should have abilitys removed unles specified otherwise buy the OP, I'm sure you wouldn't assume he can't use shadow clones or rasengans and such.



			
				Bender Alchemist said:
			
		

> This is not Aang vs. Naruto and a bunch of toads.



If this match was like what your saying then Naruto would start off with the toads on his side, he dosn't, he has to summon them.


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## Banhammer (Feb 12, 2009)

But Naruto can't sumon across dimensions. Batle is in the Wulong forest.


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## Banhammer (Feb 12, 2009)

Also, frogs can't fly, so Aang opens up a lava river and serves baked legs for dinner.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 12, 2009)

Xirk said:


> Whether or not you consider summons tools, summoning's just a combat ability Naruto possess', I don't see how it's relevant if their technicly tools or not.
> 
> I don't see why Naruto should have abilitys removed unles specified otherwise buy the OP, I'm sure you wouldn't assume he can't use shadow clones or rasengans and such.
> 
> If this match was like what your saying then Naruto would start off with the toads on his side, he dosn't, he has to summon them.



Clones are beings that come straight from Naruto's energy and cease to exist when he wills.  Rasengans are just weapons.  Not the same.

And the other reason besides OP authority (which I have) is that they are battling in the Avatarverse, and Naruto can't summon across dimensions.


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## Marth6789 (Feb 12, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> But Naruto can't sumon across dimensions. Batle is in the Wulong forest.



Proof? You do know summoning is time-space jutsu.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 12, 2009)

Summoning traverses great distances, from the toad's land.  The burden of proof is on you to prove it can traverse dimensions.


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## Jinibea (Feb 12, 2009)

I see a new Luffy vs Avatar State aang. Naruto is the winner obviouse.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 12, 2009)

How is it obvious?


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## Jinibea (Feb 12, 2009)

Naruto is faster. Has the power to one shot him and has a massive duribillity difference.

Just Like Luffy. But the the match with luffy was just rape in Luffy's favor. I can't wait to Ichigo and Goku come to play.


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## ChidoriCurrent (Feb 12, 2009)

This isn't even fair. Naruto hasn't even shown what he's fully capable of in Sage Mode yet. Aang's series is already over and we have seen what he's fully capable of. Plus i can't see that video you're talking about.


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## RealaMoreno (Feb 12, 2009)

The thing about summoning is lol.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Feb 12, 2009)

It's also true.

You can't summon across dimmensions.


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## Xirk (Feb 12, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:
			
		

> First of all, you can't blitz an omnidirectional air shield.



Blitz Ang before he casts it.



			
				Bender Alchemist said:
			
		

> Second of all, you can't blitz someone who is hundreds of feet in the air.



Blitz Ange before he takes off the ground.



			
				Bender Alchemist said:
			
		

> Combustion Man's blasts qualify as high explosives.



Prove it.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Feb 12, 2009)

Xirk said:


> Blitz Ang before he casts it.



You realize Avatar Aang starts out with that on right?



> Blitz Ange before he takes off the ground.



Please, Naruto worries about only having 5 second to attack 



> Prove it.



There were shockwaves as a result of the blast.


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## Xirk (Feb 12, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:
			
		

> You realize Avatar Aang starts out with that on right?



I don't see as much in the OP.



			
				Azure Flame Kite said:
			
		

> Please, Naruto worries about only having 5 second to attack



Worries about *beating* Pain in the 5 secound gap you mean, he can move at faster then the eye can see speed at least surley, lower tier Naruto's do as much.



			
				Azure Flame Kite said:
			
		

> There were shockwaves as a result of the blast.



Don't shockwaves come out of fictional energy blasts all the time?  

Couldn't Combustion Man's attacks actualy be some direct energy thing, not some high explosive?

Was it ever actualy specified what Combustion Man's powers where?

Man I can't believe I'm defending Naruto.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 13, 2009)

Xirk said:


> I don't see as much in the OP.



He automatically has it on whenever he's in the Avatar State.



> Don't shockwaves come out of fictional energy blasts all the time?
> 
> Couldn't Combustion Man's attacks actualy be some direct energy thing, not some high explosive?
> 
> ...



They look like explosions.  Combustion Man's power is a kind of firebending, not direct energy.


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## The777Man (Feb 14, 2009)

Sage Naruto owns. He's a lot faster than Aang, and he has Sage Super Strength, Frog Katas, Sage Enhanced Rasengans, and throwable Rasenshuriken. Also, if Aang trys to Energybend him, Naruto can just backfire his Sage Chakra into Aang, turn him into a toad and kill him, just like he did with Ghost Realm Pain.


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## Bael (Feb 14, 2009)

Naruto throws a 100 ton Rhino at Aang GG


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## Banhammer (Feb 14, 2009)

Aang siinks him in lava, GG.

In the words of the Great Magneto

"When are these people going to learn how to fly?"


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 14, 2009)

THE ULTIMATE said:


> Sage Naruto owns. He's a lot faster than Aang, and he has Sage Super Strength, Frog Katas, Sage Enhanced Rasengans, and throwable Rasenshuriken. Also, if Aang trys to Energybend him, Naruto can just backfire his Sage Chakra into Aang, turn him into a toad and kill him, just like he did with Ghost Realm Pain.



That last point is good, but ultimately invalid.  Ghost Realm Pain was absorbing Naruto's power.

O rly

Energybending is removing power, not absorbing it.  So no, if Aang tried to energybend Naruto he would not turn into a frog statue.



			
				Bael said:
			
		

> Naruto throws a 100 ton Rhino at Aang GG



Aang tosses a 100 ton rock pillar back at Naruto.  Game still going.


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## potential (Feb 14, 2009)

How far do they start aart. This ultimatley determines whether Aang gets his head punched at the beginning of the fight are not. Aang has never dealt with a beast like sage mode naruto in the avatar verse.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 14, 2009)

Hmm... 100 yards.


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## Banhammer (Feb 14, 2009)

So you have a landscape fucker and you give him one hundred yards?


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 14, 2009)

Pretty much.


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## Karma Monster (Feb 15, 2009)

Easy. Aang stomps. The end.

And to the person who said Naruto could distrack Aang with frogs-what? Is Aang really that easily distracted? Would he really care wether or not an ugly frog is next to him?


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## Endless Mike (Feb 15, 2009)

Karma Monster said:


> Easy. Aang stomps. The end.
> 
> And to the person who said Naruto could distrack Aang with frogs-what? Is Aang really that easily distracted? Would he really care wether or not an ugly frog is next to him?



He would if it was hitting him with a bunch of jutsus and crap


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## SmashSk8er (Feb 15, 2009)

Would the wind not repel them?


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## Endless Mike (Feb 15, 2009)

Repelling genjutsu?


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 16, 2009)

Er... when has Naruto been shown to use _genjutsu_ in battle?


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## Yagami1211 (Feb 16, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Er... when has Naruto been shown to use _genjutsu_ in battle?



Never, but he can repel Low/Mid level genjutsu.


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## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 19, 2009)

Is this a joke?  Naruto speedblitzes Aang and shoves a Rasengan in his face.  I don't think he even needs Sage Mode.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

Speedblitz Aang across 100 yards before he can get the air shield up?  Not happening.


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## kokodeshide (Feb 19, 2009)

how long do you think it would take the air sheild to get up cause if its more than a second or 2 aang is dead


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

It's automatic.


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## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

SM Naruto farts and the avatar cycle starts again.


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## Banhammer (Feb 19, 2009)

He must have, because sudenly it started to smell like crap


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 19, 2009)

vagnard said:


> SM Naruto farts and the avatar cycle starts again.



And you utterly prove your inability to debate or think sanely.


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## vagnard (Feb 19, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> And you utterly prove your inability to debate or think sanely.



Why I should debate in a joke thread?


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## Abigail (Feb 19, 2009)

vagnard said:


> SM Naruto farts and the avatar cycle starts again.



Tats a gd theroii.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 20, 2009)

vagnard said:


> Why I should debate in a joke thread?



Why should I debate with a joke poster?


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## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 20, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Speedblitz Aang across 100 yards before he can get the air shield up?  Not happening.



Yes it is.  See when Naruto rushed to save Tsunade from Pain.


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## Narcissus (Feb 20, 2009)

Slim Debater Chen said:


> Yes it is.  See when Naruto rushed to save Tsunade from Pain.



Lol no.  Naruto has not used that typr of speed in combat yet.  What he did to Pain was a sneak attack.  This is not the case with Aang, who will simply fly into the air.

Aang only needs to last for only five minutes, and Naruto gets take out in ONLY FIVE SECONDS. :ho


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## Banhammer (Feb 20, 2009)

That was about as pwnsome as falcon kick to the balls


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## Vynjira (Feb 22, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> And make only three clones in battle.
> 
> Link removed


Except if you read the manga, Naruto already had 2 clones gathering energy for Senjutsu in Myobokuzan while Naruto was fighting Pain with 3 additional clones.

If your gonna say that Senjutsu Naruto does not have prep then you better be prepared for mass shadow clones.

Further Aang would not know to simply evade Naruto for 5 minutes nor would he be prepared for Naruto's attacks.

Avatar State Aang doesn't try to evade attacks like Aang normally would. So your gonna find Aang trying to tank a Rasenshuriken..


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Naruto can't sustain more than a few clones because they take up too much Senjutsu.  Either he's limited in clones or he can't use Sage Mode.  It's that simple.

As for the Rasenshuriken, like I said before:  Part of it is wind chakra.  Aang could airbend the rasenshuriken to either redirect it or weaken it.  He probably couldn't completely block it with airbending, but it would be weak enough for a huge earth pillar to block it.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

And Sage Mode Naruto has nothing that could conveivably penetrate Aang's tertelemental shield. His most destructive attack that isn't paunch is a chakra based wind strike wich kinda defeats itself dosen't it?


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

He was keeping five clones in tandem for ten minutes and doing fine against Pain for the most part.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

He still can't have as many clones as normal during Sage Mode.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

even if he does multiply his amount, that'll only divide his power. And since his total power is two. (RShurikens that is) does it really matter where he's pulling clones from, since aang's defense is strong enough for Katas, and omnidirectional?


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Yeah, I'm going to laugh my ass off if you think Aang has showcased anything to take even 1/10th Senjutsu Naruto's Rasenshuriken's.

He won't stop them, bend them or strip them. He losses in speed, durability and strength massively.

Why is this thread on page 6.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

When it comes to their bodies, yes Naruto is stronger.  When it comes to their powers and defenses, no Aang is stronger.

And yes,  Aang will be able to affect the Rasenshuriken.  It has wind energy in it, and Aang's a master of controlling wind.  Either he can redirect or weaken it with airbending and then block it with a rock pillar, or just remove the air energy so the rasenshuriken loses all cohesion and just dissipates.

A few fireballs that take down airships should damage Naruto sufficiently, if he gets hit.  And I admit, that's a big if.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

It has elemental chakra, it has spatial chakra, it has senjutsu energy.

Yeah Aang isn't affecting that. Not too mention he has fallen hundreds of meters for no damage, tanked punches from Pain and lifted massive stone/concrete statues with ill affects.

Aang isn't doing shit.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

He is effecting the "elemental chakra" part.  Which is enough to redirect it or weaken it.

There's no fire resistance feats among those.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Yeah okay, its not like your citing a no limits fallacy or anything, since you clearly don't read Naruto:

- All of those elements and energies are interwined, fused and combined to perform the ninjutsu

- Hence the A/S rank on difficulty mastering, forming and creating the technique

- Hence Aang not doing shit to Naruto's Fuutons.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

But it still has wind energy.  Which is not extremely more powerful than Aang has controlled before.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Its three different energies that Aang has no expierence with, its three different energied merged and weilded as one in union.

Yeah colour me red if I don't think he isn't doing jack shit.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

But all those three energies do in this atack is enhance wind movement wich is Aang's bread and butter.. Energies wich can be treated just like any other energy, as prooven by Fat Pein absorbing just as readily as he would regular fire wind or chakra.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Hungry Ghost Realm Pain can absorb any form of energy because he has showcased it.

- Multiple Elemental/Spatial Energies (Doton, Katon, Suiton, Fuuton, Raiton, Pure Chakra, Senjutsu)

Aang hasn't. Elemental ninjutsu is formed by spatial and elemental energy. Stop associating him with Pain.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

It's wind power.  Aang controls wind.  Simple.  He won't have full control over it, but still.  It's wind.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

Well, I can hardly recall anyone being under any frog turning petrifying effects from Sage Rasenshuriken, or normal Rasenshurkien causing any other effects other than using wind blades to cut.
The former seems trully just a stronger one than the previous one.
Fat Pein absorbs the energy that's powering the wind movement, then the wind stops. But since Aang controlls the wind itself..


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## Vynjira (Feb 22, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Naruto can't sustain more than a few clones because they take up too much Senjutsu.


Using more than three clones in battle would interfere with the ones focusing Sage Chakra. This limits his ability to use Hermit Mode to a maximum of three times in the battle. It also limits his use of the Multi Shadow Clone Technique to a maximum total of five clones (while there are two clones focusing Sage Chakra) or four (while there is one clone focusing Sage Chakra) untill the last focusing clone is dispelled.





> Either he's limited in clones or he can't use Sage Mode.


He cannot use clones to gather Sage Chakra and summon mass clones, its that simple.





> It's wind power. Aang controls wind. Simple. He won't have full control over it, but still. It's wind.


Doesn't give him the inate ability to negate the attack or weaken it. In the show its very rare when they do redirect an attack of their own element. Further Aang has never displayed the ability to cut people at the cellular level with wind.. Even in his Avatar state.

Your gonna be hard pressed to find evidence that Aang has that level of control and that he can manipulate the wind element at that level.

I think its ridiculous for you to be claiming that he could when they don't do it in the show. All the fire attacks Ozai should have been able to deflect or cancel with his fire bending but instead he used other elements to block or deflect...


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

Because he can?
In the Avatar state he has equal experience on all four of them, and in avatarverse, there is no pokemon rock paper scisors logic. The most skilled fighter is the one with the upperhand.
And Avatar State Aang's wind shield could tank comet strikes easily.
Remember non powered firebenders like Zuko could allready bust through steel.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> Doesn't give him the inate ability to negate the attack or weaken it. In the show its very rare when they do redirect an attack of their own element. Further Aang has never displayed the ability to cut people at the cellular level with wind.. Even in his Avatar state.
> 
> Your gonna be hard pressed to find evidence that Aang has that level of control and that he can manipulate the wind element at that level.
> 
> I think its ridiculous for you to be claiming that he could when they don't do it in the show. All the fire attacks Ozai should have been able to deflect or cancel with his fire bending but instead he used other elements to block or deflect...



None of this changes the facts that Aang controls air and rasenshuriken use wind.  He should be able to affect the rasenshuriken to some extent.  Not completely stop it, but it would be enough to redirect it or weaken it so a large earth pillar can block it.

As for the rarity of bender redirecting an attack of his/her own element... hello?  That happens every time for firebenders and waterbenders (but not earthbenders).  And unfortunately Aang is the only airbender left so we've never seen airbender vs. airbender action.  So you can't use that to support your argument.

As for Aang blocking Ozai's fire with earth or water rather than firebending... it's simple.  Ozai still had firebending power on the level of Aang's.  So, rather than get into a shoving match over the fire, he simply blocked it with something Ozai couldn't control.  And, who knows?  Aang may have been combining earthbending with firebending for defense.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

the entire philosophy of Airbending is the redirection and evasion of incoming strikes.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

No, you're confusing waterbending with airbending.  Waterbending focuses on redirection; airbending focuses on evasion.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

waterbending focus on redirection and balance, The oposition of hard with soft.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

nonetheless. manipulating air currents is not unheard of. Early non avatar state aang was standing his ground against storms and hurricanes.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Yeah... somehow Aang was able to freeze a huge lava flow with his breath back in Season 1.  Before he learned firebending or earthbending.


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## Vynjira (Feb 22, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> And Avatar State Aang's wind shield could tank comet strikes easily.
> Remember non powered firebenders like Zuko could allready bust through steel.


Roku dies fighting a volcano(Roku admitted he could not stop the Volcano on his own), Aang tanks comets.. hmm.. some jumps in logic are being made..





> He should be able to affect the rasenshuriken to some extent.


He should be able to effect wind, not Chakra that has been molded into an attack.





> And unfortunately Aang is the only airbender left so we've never seen airbender vs. airbender.


Great I'm glad we agree *that you have no evidence that Aang could redirect or cancel wind chakra with his airbending.*


> *
> None of this changes the facts that Aang controls air and rasenshuriken use wind.
> *So you can't use that to support your argument.


QFT.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Hey hey we're all overlooking some common sense.

Senjutsu Naruto and clones punch the shit out of Aang.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> Great I'm glad we agree *that you have no evidence that Aang could redirect or cancel wind chakra with his airbending*


*

No no no I don't mean that wouldn't work.  What you were trying to say is basically "Yeah well airbending doesn't work that way".  I was just saying there is nothing for you point at and prove that statement with.  None of that changes the facts that Aang controls wind, rasenshuriken uses wind, therefore Aang should be able to affect Rasenshuriken.

Oh and TWF how are Naruto and his clones punching Aang through his windshield at 100+ feet in the air?*


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Naruto can leap hundreds of meters into the air since his training for Senjutsu mode. And on top of that he can chain his Kage Bunshins to throw him even further. Not like Aang starts off his fights a 100+ feet in the air anyway.

Also that wind-bended shield isn't doing jack shit to Naruto's punches. The concussive force of his punch would send Aang flying.


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## Banhammer (Feb 22, 2009)

Let's say A puch sends him flying (and very likely shred his hand off. but let's say it won't) but won't break the shield. Aang stays uphill and then sends naruto flying across a mountain.
Win by bfr.


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Yeah okay, except that Naruto fall hundreds of feet into jagged rocks with no damage or wear and tear down to him. He tanked a hit from a body of Pain that ripped off Senjutsu Jiraiya's arm and sent him flying through meters of solid steel and out of a building and destroyed that Pain with the force of his own punch.

Also the minute Aang tries to blast Naruto with his wind is the same moment he takes a Bunshin feint and gets punched through his Henge.


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## Vynjira (Feb 22, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> No no no I don't mean that wouldn't work.  What you were trying to say is basically "Yeah well airbending doesn't work that way".  I was just saying there is nothing for you point at and prove that statement with.  None of that changes the facts that Aang controls wind, rasenshuriken uses wind, therefore Aang should be able to affect Rasenshuriken.


We typically don't accept what people think a character should be able to do over what was actually shown.. Since there were no airbenders to prove what you think is possible.

Even if you had proof of your argument, you then need to prove he could bend the wind to a greater effect than Naruto's Chakra.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 22, 2009)

Naruto jumps.  Aang avoids him and waits for Naruto to reach his peak and slow down.  He then engulfs Naruto in a water whip, suspending him and laughing as he impales Naruto with rock bullets.

Ok the laughing bit would be way out of character but that's how it would go with bloodlust.

That shield smashed straight through several large rock pillars without slowing.  Naruto's punch + Aang's shield = sore knuckles.

Vynjira:  Are you somehow arguing that Aang can't control air?


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Or Naruto just uses the water to form a Malestrom Rasengan (like he did with Yamato's Water Release: Vortex against Kakuzu) and blasts Aang.

Not too mention he does use Henge, Bunshin swaps and Weapon summmons when it suits his fancy in Part I and the start of Part II. And there's still the whole spiel that Kyuubi Naruto (without Tails) was running through dozens of meters of solid rock and stone chasing after Deidara. And that form doesn't even fucking compare to Senjutsu Naruto.


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## Vynjira (Feb 22, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Vynjira:  Are you somehow arguing that Aang can't control air?


I'm telling you controlling Air does not allow him to control air thats under the control of someone else. IE: Naruto.

You have no proof he can bend an element that someone else controls. Your arguing that Aang can Hijack Naruto's attack because Aang can bend Air.. This argument has no proof to back it.

Furthermore, how does Aang know so much about this attack that he knows the attack is a wind element.. Is Naruto just telling him everything he needs to know? Is Aang just guessing?


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## Fang (Feb 22, 2009)

Basically a no limits fallacy is what she's saying.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok TWF I have no idea what the "maelstrom rasengan" is, can you post the scan?

And Vynjira can you prove that Naruto keeps constant control over the rasenshurikens once he throws them?


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## Optimus Andrew (Feb 23, 2009)

wasnt naruto able to stop the rasenshuriken and expand it?  That sounds like pretty good control to me..


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Can you provide a scan?


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## Optimus Andrew (Feb 23, 2009)

fodder can see him.

fodder can see him.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Doesn't say exactly how it expanded.  It could have expanded on impact, or Naruto could have timed it to expand then.


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## Optimus Andrew (Feb 23, 2009)

Well it didnt hit anything before it expanded so i doubt it was an impact thing.  It could have been timed to do that, but im more inclined to believe he did it.


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## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

It was explained in a later scan that he used more Chakra to expand it after its release. Also it was gonna miss until he expanded it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Well I'm more inclined to believe it was timed. 

EDIT:  Well, Naruto being able to affect it doesn't prove he has constant control over nor that the rasenshuriken is immune to airbending.  Aang's wind control > Naruto's, so Aang should be able to affect the rasenshuriken.


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## Optimus Andrew (Feb 23, 2009)

Well difference of opinion i suppose.. Its all good


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## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Well I'm more inclined to believe it was timed.


Except it is explained he did it when he realized he was gonna miss.. There is also no reason to spend Chakra to make it expand when your not sure if your opponents are gonna try to dodge it.

Naruto is trying his best to conserve his chakra because of Pain.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

I saw your post and edited mine.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 23, 2009)

Rasenshuriken works on the same principle as the normal Rasengan - many chaotic currents intermixing, I've never seen Aang manipulate something so complex and chaotic moving at such a high speed, especially in the little time he would have before it hit him


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## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> And Vynjira can you prove that Naruto keeps constant control over the rasenshurikens once he throws them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You still haven't proven Aang can airbend other airbenders attacks, not to mention its wind-chakra.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

The fact remains.  Rasenshuriken is partially composed of wind.  Aang controls wind.  Therefore, Aang should be able to affect the Rasenshuriken to some extent- not fully, but some.

EDIT: Vynjira, benders _always_ show some extent over control of their own element.  That's how they defend against fellow benders.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah, maybe reduce its speed and power by like 5% before he dies


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## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> The fact remains.  Rasenshuriken is partially composed of wind.  Aang controls wind.  Therefore, Aang should be able to affect the Rasenshuriken to some extent- not fully, but some.


That argument is invalid because Aang has never displayed the ability to support your claim. He controls wind that noone else is using.. great ability. I've never seen Katara take water that another Waterbender was currently bending. She uses water she's controlling to block/deflect the attack.





Endless Mike said:


> Rasenshuriken works on the same principle as the normal Rasengan - many chaotic currents intermixing, I've never seen Aang manipulate something so complex and chaotic moving at such a high speed, especially in the little time he would have before it hit him


and, he's never created tiny wind blades that cut at the Cellular level.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> That argument is invalid because Aang has never displayed the ability to support your claim. He controls wind that noone else is using.. great ability. I've never seen Katara take water that another Waterbender was currently bending. She uses water she's controlling to block/deflect the attack.and, he's never created tiny wind blades that cut at the Cellular level.



You can't prove Aang can only control wind no one else is using because we've never seen airbender vs. airbender action.  Past that, we have to judge based on who has more power over air.  Aang massively does, so his control trumps Naruto's.

As for waterbending another bender's water, just watch Pakku vs. Katara or Hama vs. Katara.  Plenty of controlling another's water.  Particularly, there is this one moment where Pakku surrounds himself and Katara with a large ring of water.  Katara redirects it and sends the water away (comically hitting Sokka).


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Your still using a no limits fallacy and an argument from belief. He isn't doing anything to Naruto's Fuuton Rasenshuriken.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 23, 2009)

It's pretty much a no limits fallacy to say this, otherwise we can say it would work in other universes as well. Such to the extent that Azula could control/redirect Captain Marvel's lighting, or Katara using Aquaman/Namor's abilities against them.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

No, I'm not acting as if Aang has no limit.  I wouldn't claim he could stop, say, a huge gust on the planet Jupiter!  You all have yet to show how the wind in the Rasenshuriken goes above Aang's limit.


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Endless Mike and Vynjira have explained it to you multiple times. It uses multiple forms of energy to form and function, its made up of thousands of thousands of currents and blades rotating and spinning and Aang has never dealt with or shown the ability to stop others attacks, much less one's that work on Senjutsu Naruto's level.

You are citing circular reasons as to why it should but have no a single iota of proof to back your claims. Arguments ad naseum aren't helping you here.

Its beyond Aang's limits. He doesn't bend other Fire-Benders attack, he doesn't bend other Water-Benders attacks, or Earth-Benders, ect...Nor has he ever encountered and stopped/blocked/bent an attack on the FRS level, at all, or even remotely near it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

And yet.  It still has air in it.  How does any of that other stuff mean Aang wouldn't be able to affect the air?


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

It doesn't have air in it. It has wind generated elemental energy specifically, alone with senjutsu energy and pure spatial energy of chakra itself.

You have no argument or case to prove anything your claiming here, at all.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

TWF said:


> It doesn't have air in it. It has *wind generated elemental energy* specifically, alone with senjutsu energy and pure spatial energy of chakra itself.
> 
> You have no argument or case to prove anything your claiming here, at all.



See bold.  You defeat yourself.


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Defeat myself in what? When has Aang taken others attacks, or more to the point one that has showcased the destructive power of the Fuuton Rasenshuriken?

Never.

Your grasping at a no limits argumen ad naseum still.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> No, I'm not acting as if Aang has no limit.  I wouldn't claim he could stop, say, a huge gust on the planet Jupiter!  You all have yet to show how the wind in the Rasenshuriken goes above Aang's limit.



And you've still yet to show that Aang control energy that is made from other users, or that it is implied that he can do so, other than redirect it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Miyamoto Musashi said:


> And you've still yet to show that Aang control energy that is made from other users, or that it is implied that he can do so, *other than redirect it*.



Why ask for something you already know?



> Defeat myself in what? When has Aang taken others attacks, or more to the point one that has showcased the destructive power of the Fuuton Rasenshuriken?
> 
> Never.



No, make that Aang has taken a point-blank blast from Ozai and smashed through huge rock pillars at high speed with his shield.  He could also move said rock pillars in front of him for defense.

As for attacks, a single (comet-powered) fireblast without the Avatar State took down Ozai's airship, and Aang could unleash five of those simultaneously in the Avatar State.   He also has a rock railgun, where he fire around 30 bullets from a small boulder destroying a multitude of said huge rock pillars.


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## Darth Nihilus (Feb 23, 2009)

Not asking for that, I'm asking for if he can actually manipulate one's energy other than deflecting it. Otherwise, I might as well say that it can work in all universe mediums that have to do with that.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Don't know what you mean by that last sentence, but why wouldn't redirection be enough?  He could just wave his arm and the Rasenshuriken would fly off into a rock pillar instead of hitting him.


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah that's just ignorning that the FRS isn't just made up of wind elemental energy but two others, which Aang has no ability to affect, which are combined and fused within the FRS.

Derp derp.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

But it's partially made of it.  1/3.  So, you could say Aang can reduce its strength by 1/3.  Or redirect it so it goes 1/3 off the path Naruto intended.


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Or not since he's never done anything like that before and you still are aruging no limits fallacy since he's never dealt with a technique like or ability and has no experience in countering it/stopping it/bending it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Are you denying that rasenshuriken is partially composed of wind?


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

Way too miss the point.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

I'll take that as a no.  So, what's the problem here?  Rasenshuriken is partially made of wind, Aang controls wind, so Aang should affect rasenshuriken.  No, Aang's bending is not unlimited, but rasenshuriken is in no a way on a scale greater than his airbending.


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## Fang (Feb 23, 2009)

No again. First of you have no evidence of Aang bending or affecting anything, even if its partially formed with an element he might have prior experience.

Your still grasping at straws that won't help your argument at all.


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## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Are you denying that rasenshuriken is partially composed of wind?


Wind Chakra is a type of chakra that has an affinity to controlling the wind element.. Further you've not proven Aang can bend something another user is molding. As you said you've never seen Airbender vs Airbender so you have no argument Aang can.

Further its much more complex than anything Aang has ever shown the ability to manipulate. So your argument is full of fail.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

You're all ignorant.  Literally; you've been holding on to an argument from ignorance.  Your argument basically is Aang has never bent someone else's air, when he actually has never had the chance to.  Just because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't.  He still controls air.


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## Emperor Joker (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> You're all ignorant.  Literally; you've been holding on to an argument from ignorance.  Your argument basically is Aang has never bent someone else's air, when he actually has never had the chance to.  Just because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't.  He still controls air.



It's not ignorance it's just that there's no evidence supporting your argument that he can control naruto's rasenshuriken, and I really if he could redirect someone else's air attack that doesn't mean he could do it to Naruto's, as it's a different type of energy than he's used to.


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## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

wind chakra is not pure wind.


derp


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## Tyler (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> *You're all ignorant.*  Literally; you've been holding on to an argument from ignorance.  *Your argument basically is Aang has never bent someone else's air, when he actually has never had the chance to.  Just because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't.  He still controls air.*





I'm confused, if he has yet to control someone else air, doesn't that mean he can't do it? Im sure if he knew how to, he would.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Rasenshuriken is partially wind.

Aang controls wind.

Aang has greater control over wind than Naruto.

Aang could affect the rasenshuriken.

Simple.


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## Banhammer (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh look, that argument has never been used.

Equivalence rule allows chakra wind to be bent like normal wind. It behaves like wind, burns like air and has wind properties, so it is bendable.



And, benders bend element who is under oposing forces, such aang vs storms, or katara fighting for the control of bloodbending.
But because their control is closer to the forces of nature than naruto's, who has to use third party manipulation, it's up to you to proove his rasenshuriken can offer any resistance at all to Aang's bending.
It will amuse me to see you try to offer an argument on almost a "Gaara can control Crocodile" level.


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## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

Fuuton Rasenshuriken aside, If Aang creates his elemental Orb of doom, naruto stands no chance whatsoever..

>.>


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## Dexion (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> You're all ignorant.  Literally; you've been holding on to an argument from ignorance.  Your argument basically is Aang has never bent someone else's air, when he actually has never had the chance to.  Just because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't.  He still controls air.



Once you get it in your head that Rasen-shruiken is *not* a wind nature'd attack. You'll understand Aang has no chance.

Wind Chakra is the manipulation of chakra to take on the similar element of wind. In this case it is used as a blade.

Rasen-Shuriken has hundreds if not thousands of *chakra* blades that attack on the cellular level. Those chakra blades were manipulated by wind chakra, it is no longer wind. It is pure chakra.

Its like saying if he were a waterbender he could control ice which is no longer water, water was used to make ice yes, but it is no longer water. When Hydrogen and Oxygen combine they make water, it is no longer hydrogen and oxygen, but the aftermath of the two elements.

Even if he flies into the sky there is nothing stopping Naruto from making clones to hurl himself in Aang's general direction and punch a hole through his shield and him. Aang can do absolutely nothing to harm naruto in Sage Mode.


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## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Rasenshuriken is partially wind.
> 
> Aang controls wind.
> 
> ...



it is wind NATURED chakra. not wind itself.

wind does not give off a bright light.

it is chakra with wind nature. the wind nature being cutting etc. 


you can use the natured chakra to create the element itself, but this takes more maniolation on the ninja's part. what naruto uses is pur wind natured chakra, there is no actual wind in it.







> Equivalence rule allows chakra wind to be bent like normal wind. It behaves like wind, burns like air and has wind properties, so it is bendable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's not chakra wind, it's wind natured chakra.

for it to become chakra wind, additional manipulations must be added. 

what do you think all the handseals are for when people use elemental jutsu? they are taking the raw, element NATURED chakra and turning it into the lement itself.


hpwever, naruto FRS is pure wind chakra, thus why he needs no seals and additional manipulation.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

So it's wind, but not wind?  Why call it wind chakra at all?

Anyway, I still think Aang could knock the Rasenshuriken off course, but even if not a couple huge rock pillars could probably stop it.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> So it's wind, but not wind? Why call it wind chakra at all?
> 
> Anyway, I still think Aang could knock the Rasenshuriken off course, but even if not a couple huge rock pillars could probably stop it.



no, it's not wind at all at that point.


it can become wind if he does some additional manipulation. at the time he uses it, it's pure energy.


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

Dexion said:


> Even if he flies into the sky there is nothing stopping Naruto from making clones to hurl himself in Aang's general direction and punch a hole through his shield and him. Aang can do absolutely nothing to harm naruto in Sage Mode.



except for mass rock pellets that had a stronger effect than most gattling guns, Massive tendrils of flame, water fast enough to slice through rock, and air moving at such insane speeds that it can break through pillars?


Naruto can't do shit..


----------



## Tyler (Feb 23, 2009)

Can Aang bend chakra? That's what Naruto's Rasenshuriken is made of. If not he has no chance of stopping Naruto from destroying him with it.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 23, 2009)

I like it how people are focusing on one thing when at any given moment Aang could just step on the floor and drop naruto in a river of lava or windhurl him to the atmo


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

^ LOGIC AT LAST


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> I like it how people are focusing on one thing when at any given moment Aang could just step on the floor and drop naruto in a river of lava or windhurl him to the atmo



I like how you totally dropped your last argument when it was shot down, after such a heartfelt post about how idiotic people would have to be to disagree with it.


----------



## potential (Feb 23, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> I like it how people are focusing on one thing when at any given moment Aang could just step on the floor and drop naruto in a river of lava or windhurl him to the atmo



Or Naruto could punch his face off before his mind has a single thought process of those movements


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

As I said before.  Aang's air shield + Naruto's punch = Sore knuckles for Naruto.


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

> Your argument basically is Aang has never bent someone else's air, when he actually has never had the chance to.


*Meanwhile your argument is that he can do something he's never done.*


> Just because he hasn't doesn't prove he can't.


Actually if you have no proof that he can, then your not allowed to claim he can. I can't say "I can fly just because you have no proof that I can't." It is assumed I can't until I provide some form of evidence that I can.

You need to prove that he has some ability to bend what someone else is controlling.. and you have no proof. So you have no argument.





> Equivalence rule allows chakra wind to be bent like normal wind.


No it doesn't, further Toph gives us evidence that there is a difference between Earth and Metal. Air exists in the Narutoverse, Aang can bend that Air all he wants. When it comes to wind-chakra.. it is a *type of chakra that has similar characteristics to wind.*


> it's up to you to proove his rasenshuriken can offer any resistance at all to Aang's bending.


We don't have to sit here and prove that he can't. Further, Aang doesn't gain the ability to bend the rasenshuriken if we don't prove Aang can't do it.

Example:

Invisible people don't exist simply because we cannot prove they don't exist. We assume they don't exist because you cannot prove the Invisible people do exist.

*Burden of proof goes to your claim that he can bend it.. Equivalence rule does not come into play because Chakra =/= Air. Aang can still use his abilities, which does not include blocking or canceling attacks with the wind element. Since he hasn't shown that ability in his own universe.*


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Burden of proof goes to your claim he can bend it.. Equivalence rule does not come into play because Chakra =/= Air. Aang can still use his abilities, which does not include blocking or canceling attacks with the wind element. Since he hasn't shown that ability in his own universe.
> 
> Your giving Aang abilities that were never displayed.



don't bother, I've already shot down this argument. notice how they switched to an entirely diffreint gear after I posted a reply to this very subject.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> *Meanwhile your argument is that he can do something he's never done.*



Again.  Are you denying he can control air?


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

don't flatter yourself herekic, there's a difference between dropping the subject and losing.

in this case, you did not win.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes.  Just because two walls stop talking to each other doesn't mean one fell down.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> don't flatter yourself herekic, there's a difference between dropping the subject and losing.
> 
> in this case, you did not win.



I proved that what naruto uses for FRS is indeed not wind, and therefore cannot be bended.

Wind nature chakra!=wind created from chakra.


same way aang could not bend away asuma's chakra charged knives.

again, thats what all those funny little hand seals are for.


----------



## Emperor Joker (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Again.  Are you denying he can control air?



No we are saying he can't control wind chakra,which as other people have said Is not wind


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Then why call it wind?


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

funny hand seals??

you mean the hand seals that Kakashi used for chidori during the zabuza arc? and yet he used no hand seals at all when he fought Deva Pain?

That's called inconsistency..


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Last time,  Aang can bend air all day, *Wind-chakra* is not *Air or wind.*


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> funny hand seals??
> 
> you mean the hand seals that Kakashi used for chidori during the zabuza arc? and yet he used no hand seals at all when he fought Deva Pain?
> 
> That's called inconsistency..



kishi stated he does not draw handseals, but said the characters ARE still doing them.

this is likely wher that whoel superhuman speed thing comes into play.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh and Herekic you have not proved anything without a scan.


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

so i'm gonna go on a limb and guess that lightning chakra has nothing to do with lightning either?


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Then why call it wind?


Wind-chakra is a TYPE of chakra that displays characteristics similar to wind and can be used to produce effects similar to real wind.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

So it's wind.  It acts like wind.


----------



## Darth (Feb 23, 2009)

oh.. so wind chakra is _*imitation*_ wind..

>.>

<.<

I don't think so.. Wind is wind, no matter which way you slice it..


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> h and Herekic you have not proved anything without a scan.



A scan of what? people explaining that chakra is not made of an element?


why do you think every elemental jutsu ever seen, including chidori, needs handeals, but resangan and it's variants (even FRS) do not? 


because it's stopping at the step before it's actually turned into the element itself.


"nature" chakra is created, then it has to be MOLDED inot the element itself if thats what you want.


what naruto was using was pure nature chakra. nature chakra is simply pure chakra with special attributes(in this case, th ability to cut).

unless it's molded into the element with handseals, it just stays pure chakra.


Nature chakra is it's own thing, with it's own special attributes.


in the 3rd databook kishi describes some, such as earth chakra being able to make things softer or harde,r lighting natured chakra increasing the cutting power of steel weapons, things liek that.


it's pure chakra with special attributes, that can be molded into the element. but untill you do so, it is pure chakra.






> so i'm gonna go on a limb and guess that lightning chakra has nothing to do with lightning either?




no, the raiton we have seen actually involve using the handseals to generate it.


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> So it's wind.  It acts like wind.


"A Computer is Human. It acts like a Human."

No.

Its a type of chakra, it is not made of wind.

Its the same difference between lightning and magical lightning. Lightning would not faze Superman, magical lightning can hurt Superman.. because Superman has no resistances to magic.

Aang has never bended any type of Chakra or Magic. Do you believe Aang could bend Magical Fire? Do you have any proof he could? Fire doesn't burn Superman but Magical Fire can..

As Herekic said, the hand seals help them mold their Chakra into its various effects.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Herekic:  Yes, exactly.

Vynjira:  By "act", I don't just mean look the same.  I mean _be_ the exact same thing.  A computer that talks like a human but is still obviously artificial is not the same thing as a human.  An artificial lifeform that is like a human right down to the DNA is for all intents and purposes human.

So, what about the wind chakra makes it different than wind?

The Superman analogy is weak... are you saying rasenshuriken would hurt Superman?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> A Computer is Human. It acts like a Human."
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



the point here is, it does not even act like wind, and is simply not wind.


this is not a wind jutsu like oro or temari use. those are wind chakra actually molded into the element. 


this i just the pure wind chakra.










> Herekic: Yes, exactly.
> 
> Vynjira: By "act", I don't just mean look the same. I mean be the exact same thing. A computer that talks like a human but is still obviously artificial is not the same thing as a human. An artificial lifeform that is like a human right down to the DNA is for all intents and purposes human.


So, what about the wind chakra makes it different than wind?
since when does wind slice things in half?

wind natured chakra, liek any other chakra nature, is just chakra with a special attribute. thats it.

wind cuts, earth can change the hardness of things, etc.


you have to MOLD the chakra into the elment using hand seals.


FRS=pure wind chakra. and by "wind chakra", I mean a type of energy that can BECOME wind if the right manioulation and modling is done by the ninja using it.
__________________


you might as well say kisame would gush water if he's cut, sicne he's full of water chakra.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Herekic said:


> the point here is, it does not even act like wind, and is simply not wind.



Then why call it wind chakra?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Then why call it wind chakra?



because it can BECOME wind, with the proper molding and manipulation.


same way earth chakra can become dirt and the like with the proper manioulation and molding. but you don't think earth chakra is made of dirt, do you?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Can you get a quote on that?

Chakra that isn't anything like wind is just chakra.  To be wind chakra, it has to share attributes with wind.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Can you get a quote on that?
> 
> Chakra that isn't anything like wind is just chakra. To be wind chakra, it has to share attributes with wind.



again, it's whats needed to make wind.


they found out that this chakra type can be molded into wind, while others can be molded into water, earth etc. thus why they named them such.


again, do you think earth chakra is dirt?


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

When it comes to dirt, the difference between the real thing and the chakra that controls it is clear.  With air, not so much.

If wind chakra is not wind at all, then why use it in an attack?  Wind chakra would be useless for an attack.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> When it comes to dirt, the difference between the real thing and the chakra that controls it is clear. With air, not so much.
> 
> If wind chakra is not wind at all, then why use it in an attack? Wind chakra would be useless for an attack.




so you are saying this rule should apply to one chakra element, but not all?

yea, that makes sense.

the wind chakra is useful because, for the 100th time, it has it's own special properties, like all chakra types.


in wind chakra's case, it cuts. adding this property to the resangan is very useful.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh, so it _does_ share properties with wind?  Then OBD equivalence rule kicks into play and allows Aang to control it.

Either wind chakra shares attributes with wind or it just controls wind and can't be used directly in an attack.  The wind chakra is used in the rasenshuriken attack, therefore it must share attributes with actual wind.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> h, so it does share properties with wind? Then OBD equivalence rule kicks into play and allows Aang to control it.
> 
> Either wind chakra shares attributes with wind or it just controls wind and can't be used directly in an attack. The wind chakra is used in the rasenshuriken attack, therefore it must share attributes with actual wind.



facepalm to the highest level.


again, it is just natured chakra. it has to be mlded into wind. ounce molded into wind, the equal rule coems into play. untill then, it does not.


this is not hard to grasp


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok.  I agree.

But until it is "molded", it cannot be used for an attack.  Yet it is used for an attack with Rasenshuriken.  Either it acts as wind while in the rasenshuriken, or Naruto was stupid when he included it.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Ok. I agree.
> 
> But until it is "molded", it cannot be used for an attack. Yet it is used for an attack with Rasenshuriken. Either it acts as wind while in the rasenshuriken, or Naruto was stupid when he included it.



No.


naruto does not mold it into wind. that is done using said handseals. the oens naruto does not do.


things like oro's wind jutsu, kisame's water jutsu etc, things that would be bendable, go like this:

generate natured chakra.

mold natured chakra.

produce element.


naruto stops at step 1.


you can use pure natue chakra to attack, people do it quite often. again, you only need to mold it if you want it to actually become the element.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

I guess Naruto was stupid.  Big surprise.

How is the wind chakra wind chakra if it has no attributes of wind and is not controlling any wind?

Basically, your argument is full of contradictions.  You say wind chakra is nothing like real wind, but then says it cuts like wind.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> I guess Naruto was stupid. Big surprise.
> 
> How is the wind chakra wind chakra if it has no attributes of wind and is not controlling any wind?
> 
> Basically, your argument is full of contradictions. You say wind chakra is nothing like real wind, but then says it cuts like wind.



this exact post has been answered by me multiple times. 

go back and actually read whats being said.


----------



## Monna (Feb 23, 2009)

Naruto can win without using Rasen Shuriken.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

herekic:  Ok.  Let's get this straight about wind chakra.  There are only two options for it.

Either it shares attributes with wind, therefore Aang can bend it, or it has no actual attributes of wind and is simply used to control wind.  The second option could in no way be used for a direct attack.

Now, wind chakra is used for the rasenshuriken _attack_.  This can only mean that wind chakra is acting like wind in the rasenshuriken.  Therefore Aang will be able to affect it.

If you can't grasp this you're hopeless.

Paul the SK:  How?


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> k. Let's get this straight about wind chakra. There are only two options for it.
> 
> Either it shares attributes with wind, therefore Aang can bend it, or it has no actual attributes of wind and is simply used to control wind. The second option could in no way be used for a direct attack.
> 
> ...


__________________




it is not used to control wind, it is used to MAKE wind. and the cutting thing is in what way an attribute of wind?


I have never been sliced in half by a passing breeze.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Extremely focused winds can slice.

Control?  Make?  Same things when it comes to wind.

As for just how wind chakra acts like wind in a rasenshuriken, it could spin the rasenshuriken.  Or more likely move it, since normal wind-less rasengan cannot leave Naruto's hand.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> xtremely focused winds can slice.
> 
> Control? Make? Same things when it comes to wind.
> 
> As for just how wind chakra acts like wind in a rasenshuriken, it could spin the rasenshuriken. Or more likely move it, since normal wind-less rasengan cannot leave Naruto's hand.




water can cut too when highly focused. so can light. 


naruto uses wind chakra. aang bends wind. wind chakra is not wind, it has to be changed into it. 

in the same way earth chakra is not dirt and water chakra is not liquid, wind chakra is not air. 


it has the name "wind chakra" because it can be used to create wind. thats it.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Herekic said:


> water can cut too when highly focused. so can light.
> 
> 
> naruto uses wind chakra. aang bends wind. wind chakra is not wind, it has to be changed into it.
> ...



Except there's definitely no water chakra or light chakra in the rasenshuriken.

Wind chakra, the kind that simply controls wind, is not something Aang can bend, nor that he needs to, because it can't be used for a direct attack.  My point is that the wind chakra in a rasenshuriken must be the kind that imitates wind, because it's being used for a direct attack.  Therefore Aang should be able to affect the rasenshuriken.

The wind chakra in a rasenshuriken is not the kind that "can be used to create wind".  Otherwise it would not be in an attack.  Get that through your head.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 23, 2009)

Herekic said:


> water can cut too when highly focused. so can light.
> 
> 
> naruto uses wind *chakra*. aang bends wind. wind chakra is not wind, it has to be changed into it.
> ...



That is exactly why Aang can't bend it.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

Great way to not debate, Tyler.  Why don't you help Herekic out and actually try to argue?  Otherwise GTFO troll.


----------



## Tyler (Feb 23, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Great way to not debate, Tyler.  Why don't you help Herekic out and actually try to argue?  Otherwise GTFO troll.



Is that all you can do is spew flames?

Aang* CANNOT* control *Naruto's* wind because its *CHAKRA*. And Aang hasn't shown he could bends someones air anyways, so I don't see why this has lasted this long off of you assuming he could do something he has never done.

If he hasn't been shown doing it, don't bring it up.

Edit: Im done, he's trolling now. Naruto rapes.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 23, 2009)

When all you do is spew nonsense and idiocy, yes.

I'm not going to repeat the last few pages of my debating that logically proved the wind chakra in the rasenshuriken cannot simply be chakra that Aang can't affect.  Go read it yourself.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 23, 2009)

> Except there's definitely no water chakra or light chakra in the rasenshuriken.
> 
> Wind chakra, the kind that simply controls wind, is not something Aang can bend, nor that he needs to, because it can't be used for a direct attack. My point is that the wind chakra in a rasenshuriken must be the kind that imitates wind, because it's being used for a direct attack. Therefore Aang should be able to affect the rasenshuriken.
> 
> The wind chakra in a rasenshuriken is not the kind that "can be used to create wind". Otherwise it would not be in an attack. Get that through your head.



there is no "kind" if wind chakra. 


the same chakra that manipulates wind is the same one that creates it. get it through your head.


resangan is an attack that uses pure chakra.

but using natured chakra instead of normal, it gains an extra ability(cutting).

the FRS is is still NOT wind,it is merely a special type of energy. I'm sorry, but thats it. 

by your logic aang could bend the chakra right out of people because it is (in your mind) the exact same as the element it's named after, even though they have to go through loads of manipulation and modling to actually get it to become that element.


again, by your logic earth chakra is dirt. toph could bend it


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 24, 2009)

Straw man.  I am not in any way arguing that there is a difference between wind chakra that manipulates wind and wind chakra that controls wind.  They're the same thing.

What I am arguing is that chakra is _not_ what is in the rasenshuriken.  That kind of chakra could not be used for a direct attack- it needs to control wind in order to be used in an attack.  Yet the "wind chakra" in the rasenshuriken is used to attack.  It must in some way mimic actual wind, or it wouldn't be in the rasenshuriken at all.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 24, 2009)

> raw man. I am not in any way arguing that there is a difference between wind chakra that manipulates wind and wind chakra that controls wind. They're the same thing.
> 
> What I am arguing is that chakra is not what is in the rasenshuriken. That kind of chakra could not be used for a direct attack- it needs to control wind in order to be used in an attack. Yet the "wind chakra" in the rasenshuriken is used to attack. It must in some way mimic actual wind, or it wouldn't be in the rasenshuriken at all.




again.


NATURE CHAKRA HAS IT'S OWN ATTRIBUTES.


for wind chakra, that attribute is cutting. it adds th ability to cut to an existing attack(resangan).


there is no "kinds" of wind chakra.


the wind jutsu you see is that SAME chakra, molded into actual wind and used as an attack.


the wind chakra does not control wind, it BECOMES WIND. understand this. 



the FRS uses the attribute of wind CHAKRA(read: NOT FUCKING WIND) to give the resangan thr ability to cut. 


naruto made a resangan out of his wind nature chakra. wind nature chakra has the inate ability to cut shit.


do you understand now?


at no point is any actual wind, or anything mimicking it, invovled here. 

naruto is using an attribute from an ENERGY.

asuma's knives where not covered in slicing wind. they where infused with chakra, that had the ability to increase cutting power.



the special ability of this energy, that DOES NOT YET MIMICK WIND UNTILL MOLDING IS USED TO GET IT TO DO SO
it is not bendable wind.


christ in a fucking cartoon


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 24, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> herekic:  Ok.  Let's get this straight about wind chakra.  There are only two options for it.


No, those are not the only options. They just happen to be the only options you want to accept.

Wind-chakra is chakra.. chakra flows in different patterns, its called wind-chakra is because that particular pattern of chakra flow can be molded in different ways than the other chakra types.





> Either it shares attributes with wind, therefore Aang can bend it, or it has no actual attributes of wind and is simply used to control wind.


Wrong, even if it shared attribute, Plastic can be hard, and can be bent like metal.. does that mean Toph can now bend plastic? Wood can be hard and can be bent like metal can Toph bend wood?





> The second option could in no way be used for a direct attack.


The chakra energy flows like a sharp wind.. and can indeed be used to attack a target without any wind itself.





> Now, wind chakra is used for the rasenshuriken _attack_.


The element only determines what the attack will look like and whether or not the attack cuts or burns or bludgeons or w/e...

Lastly Aang has never shown the ability to bend the air that another airbender was bending. You cannot argue that he can simply because there is no proof he can't you must assume that he can't until you have proof he can.





> What I am arguing is that chakra is _not_ what is in the rasenshuriken.


Then your not only wrong but have no clue what your talking about.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 24, 2009)

This has long been decided in all the other naruto vs avatar threads. they sought out to emulate elements, to a level they behave just like bent elements, so they can be manipulated.
Wind chakra included. All it does is being a very sharp current of air, that get's burnt and consumed like air. It's air.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 24, 2009)

Herekic said:


> the FRS uses the attribute of wind CHAKRA(read: NOT FUCKING WIND) *to give the resangan thr ability to cut.*
> 
> 
> ...
> ...



I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who disagrees with himself.

Vynjira, the reason Aang would be able to bend wind chakra if it actually acts like wind is just what Banhammer said:  Equivalence rule.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 24, 2009)

This thread is painful to read.

Equivalence rule doesn't come into play just because something shares one attribute of another energy.

Aang's wind can cut, Rasenshuriken can cut - therefore Aang can bend it?

Can Aang bend swords, since they cut too? Can he bend needles, knives, can openers, saws, or anything else that cuts?


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 24, 2009)

Aang's air burns, flows, cuts, pushes, in it's natural state not solic, transparent etc..
Naruto's air burns, flows, cuts, pushes, has no solid bases, cuts like wind cuts if it were to have the same movement as the one naruto puts in it, and what's it called?
Oh yeah
Wind element.
It's wind that mooves like a rasengan.
Naruto's lightning shocks, powers, is ill conducted by air and well conducted by metal and water.
Naruto's fire burns and is put out by water.
Naruto's water flows, boils, freezes and washes just like water.
All of them behave and have the properties of the elements they manipulate, so therefore, they are all subject to the same actions. Even if they are made of imaginary phelobtonium, they also create the vulnerability. 
All of those dependent of the context of where their used, and not the energy signature that their being put on.
If this was not the case, then every single elemental user ninja in Naruto is a major retard, for not just making elemental attacks that aren't vunerable to their natural weaknesses.
If not, then there would be rigirously and absolutly no point to adding elemental property to rasengan.


----------



## Slim Debater Chen (Feb 24, 2009)

Whatever about the rasenshuriken; Naruto doesn't need it to win.  He could just punch Aang and kill him, no jutsu necessary.


----------



## Endless Mike (Feb 24, 2009)

The difference is that those are element chakra turned into elements, rasenshuriken is just element chakra untransformed


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 24, 2009)

Aang hasn't shown the ability to bend air another bender was bending.
The Rasenshuriken is chakra  molded into high speeds and tiny blades.


----------



## Commander Shepard (Feb 24, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> The difference is that those are element chakra turned into elements, rasenshuriken is just element chakra untransformed



If it's untransformed, then why is it in the Rasenshuriken?



			
				Vynjira said:
			
		

> 1.  Aang hasn't shown the ability to bend air another bender was bending.
> 2.  The Rasenshuriken is chakra molded into high speeds and tiny blades.



1.  Argument from ignorance.
2.  Correction:  The Rasenshuriken is partially wind chakra that acts like air and therefore under OBD equivalence law can be airbent.


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 24, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> If it's untransformed, then why is it in the Rasenshuriken?


"The Rasengan doesn't require any hand seals at all, it relies only on the chakra control of the user." - Jiraiya
"Naruto's wind-natured chakra condensed into a stable sphere with the style of wind chakra being mainly to slice and cut." - Jiraiya


> 1.  Argument from ignorance.


An important aspect of the ad ignorantiam argument is establishing the burden of proof.
The *burden of proof is on you* for your claim, meaning *your making the argument from ignorance*.

You have no proof he can, yet assert that since it cannot be dis-proven it must therefore be true. Which is the *argument from ignorance* that your making.





> 2. The Rasenshuriken is partially wind chakra that acts like air and therefore under OBD equivalence law can be airbent.


The OBD equivalence rule does not come into play, because wind-nature chakra is not air in the Narutoverse.

The Equivalence Rule comes into play when, something is called by two different names in two different universe. 
Ki is chakra. (Equivalence rule)
Air is chakra. (Association Fallacy)
Your falsely claiming the equivalence rule and the argument from ignorance.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 24, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> Aang hasn't shown the ability to bend air another bender was bending.
> The Rasenshuriken is chakra  molded into high speeds and tiny blades.



Benders have seen bending the element other benders were bending
Airbending is a bending form just like any other.
Airbender Vs Airbender was never seen not because of impossibility but because of plot
See where I'm going with this?

Also, rasenshuriken is chakra molded into air, modled into high speed blades.
Molded into air being the key word.
Chakra blade is what Sasuke has.


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## Gunners (Feb 24, 2009)

Naruto smacks him in the face with an Odame Rasengan.


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## Vynjira (Feb 24, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Benders have seen bending the element other benders were bending


Except they haven't, Earth benders haven't, and even fire and water benders haven't done it the way your claiming. They've only ever been shown using their water/fire/earth bending to block the other benders attack. Azula and Zuko have fought plenty of times, whats great about their fights is Azula will use blue fire in contrast to Zuko and you will see orange flames brought up infront of Zuko to block the blue flames.

I have seen Toph explode earth attacks from a distance, but only Toph is ever shown doing this and I don't remember another time she ever did it.





> Also, rasenshuriken is chakra *molded into air*, modled into high speed blades.
> Molded into air being the key word.


Only the chakra is never molded into air. So your talking out your ass.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 24, 2009)

Vynjira said:


> "The Rasengan doesn't require any hand seals at all, it relies only on the chakra control of the user." - Jiraiya
> "Naruto's wind-natured chakra condensed into a stable sphere with the style of wind chakra being mainly to slice and cut." - Jiraiya.



So, it's in the rasenshuriken because it mimics how wind cuts?  Good, Aang should be able to bend it.




> An important aspect of the ad ignorantiam argument is establishing the burden of proof.
> The *burden of proof is on you* for your claim, meaning *your making the argument from ignorance*.
> 
> You have no proof he can, yet assert that since it cannot be dis-proven it must therefore be true. Which is the *argument from ignorance* that your making.The OBD equivalence rule does not come into play, because wind-nature chakra is not air in the Narutoverse.



No, I just have to A.  Prove the wind chakra in the rasenshuriken imitates wind, which I have and B.  Prove that Aang has greater control over wind than Naruto, which is common sense.



> The Equivalence Rule comes into play when, something is called by two different names in two different universe.
> Ki is chakra. (Equivalence rule)
> Air is chakra. (Association Fallacy)
> Your falsely claiming the equivalence rule and the argument from ignorance.



It comes into play when two separate things operate the same in different verse.  Narutoverse chakra, DBZ ki, and Avatarverse chi are not exactly the same thing, but they operate closely enough that what affects one should affect the other.  Wind chakra operates like wind, so Aang should be able to bend it.


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## Banhammer (Feb 24, 2009)

only it's molded into something that is so much like air that it's vunerable to bending. So get your head out of yours.


Also, Combustion Man Vs Zuko, he bends an explosion, Prisioners and Sun warriors bend each other's fire, Iroh vs Azula, he bend's Azula's lightning, Katara Vs Pakkun, he deflects ice blades without any water, Katara Vs Hamma, do I need to explain that one? Toph Vs Dai Lee's, she pulverizes and strikes at their elements.

What was that? You being wrong? It's okay, I forgive you.



Now your turn. Proove Naruto can controll wind under someone else's control or concede.
And then proove he can do it on a second party basis, or lose.


----------



## Herekic (Feb 24, 2009)

> nly it's molded into something that is so much like air that it's vunerable to bending. So get your head out of yours.



it is shaped into a spinning ball. a spinning ball of chakra.


despite the arrogance all of your posts bleed, you don't yet seem to have realized how horrificly wrong you are, and I'm not sure why. even EM, after only looking over this thread for a bit, realized it.


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## whamslam3 (Feb 24, 2009)

sage mode naruto is not that special when u compare it to avatar state Aang. sorry naruto but AS Aang would own u sick. he has control over all elements, naruto only has 1.


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## Banhammer (Feb 24, 2009)

He spun an airball into a spining ball of airblades. Air first. Properties of air, shape of spining ball of blades.
Thing is, shape can be bent
As in Bending.




Edit: After reading Endless Mike I think I get it. You guys think there's a difrence between Fuuton:Rasenshuriken and Rasenshurken.



There's not! It's just a quick way to say it.


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## Herekic (Feb 24, 2009)

> He spun an airball into a spining ball of airblades. Air first. Properties of air, shape of spining ball of blades.
> Thing is, shape can be bent
> As in Bending.
> 
> ...




there is no airball. it is pure enrgy. 


it's wind natured chakra. pure chakra that has a specific trait, in this case cutting. but it is still PURE ENERGY.


natured chakra only becomes the true element(in this case air.wind) after a molding process, done with handseals. a process naruto does not do.


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## Vynjira (Feb 25, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> There's not! It's just a quick way to say it.


Very simple. Its not air, its just the pattern of the chakra flow. So Aang can't bend it, further he has to deal with a mass of clones.. Aang doesn't have any special knowledge or preparation its silly to think that he would just wait out the sage mode, since he has no idea how long it would last.


----------



## Banhammer (Feb 25, 2009)

Are back to the mass of clones thing? Naruto can't make more than two or something, and the clones by themselves cannot get past wind kaiten.


----------



## Vynjira (Feb 25, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> Are back to the mass of clones thing? Naruto can't make more than two or something, and the clones by themselves cannot get past wind kaiten.


7th Page 5th post down.


> Using more than three clones in battle would interfere with the ones focusing Sage Chakra. This limits his ability to use Hermit Mode to a maximum of three times in the battle. It also limits his use of the Multi Shadow Clone Technique to a maximum total of five clones (while there are two clones focusing Sage Chakra) *or until the last focusing clone is dispelled.*


If your gonna claim that during this fight he has no focusing clones then he can use Mass Shadow Clones. The special limitation occurs when he is using focusing clones for the Senjutsu.


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## Dexion (Feb 27, 2009)

Moral of the thread:

If Naruto made hand signs to create rasenshuriken then Aang would have some control over it. But since it has been concluded that this is just pure chakra that has taken on a character trait Aang has no hope of defending against it.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 27, 2009)

No, it has not been concluded that it's pure chakra.  Hence the name "wind chakra".


----------



## Fang (Feb 27, 2009)

You might want to start reading Naruto since you obviously don't understand how nature manipulation and chakra work.

here
here
here
here
here

Here Asuma explains it. A person has a natural affinity for an element with their own personal chakra.

here
here
here

Pretty clear cut. Pure nature chakra emulates the elements on behalf of its user when testing it with the paper: wind slices it, fire incinerates it, lightning crumples it, water wets it, earth turns it to dust.


----------



## HumanWine (Feb 27, 2009)

wind is energy though....


----------



## Fang (Feb 27, 2009)

Yeah but chakra isn't air.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 28, 2009)

Narcissus said:


> The thing is, Gaara has an eviromental advantage.  Bender did not give Naruto prep, so his Sage Mode will only last 5 minutes, unless Bender says otherwise.
> 
> However, I can see Sage Naruto tanking nearly anything Aang throws at him, except energybending.



You mean Spirit Bending.  Of course to Spirit Bend he needs to be close enough to touch Naruto's head.  Then not only would he need to bend Naruto's spirit (which would be rather hard to do as Naruto has a rather strong force of will) but he would also need to bend the Kyuubi's spirit which I really don't think Aang is capable of.

Anyways, this is a rapestomp.  Aang doesn't stand a chance.  He doesn't have feats on Sage Naruto's level.


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 28, 2009)

I'm just going to drop the rasenshuriken thing, it's been going nowhere for at least 5 pages.

Enclave:  Canonically, it's called energybending on the Nick.com Avatar flash site.

Doesn't have feats?  What does Naruto have that completely blows away smashing through several rock pillars at high speed?  Rock bullets that destroy the same rock pillars?  Fireblasts that take down an airship?


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## Fang (Feb 28, 2009)

Please take a look at hinata and post

He tosses giant rhinos hundreds of meters or more into the sky that weigh over a hundred tons like its nothing, he smashed apart Asura Pain who one-shotted Hermit Mode Jiraiya through meters of steel, a building and a huge steel pipe for hundreds of feet like it was nothing.

I'm pretty sure he can break pillars of rock and stone.

Please take a look at hinata and post
Link removed

Link removed

Chouji and Chouza's physical strength also wasn't enough to put down Asura Pain with combined attacks, Senjutsu Naruto oneshotted him.


----------



## Enclave (Feb 28, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> Enclave:  Canonically, it's called energybending on the Nick.com Avatar flash site.



Didn't the show itself call it Spirit Bending?



> Doesn't have feats?  What does Naruto have that completely blows away smashing through several rock pillars at high speed?



Aang didn't smash through rock pillars at high speed.  He likely used earth bending.  Something Sage Naruto could almost certainly do using pure strength at this point and rather easily.  It's also worth pointing out that I don't think we've ever seen Aang pull off a speed feat anywhere near what we've seen from Sage Naruto.



> Rock bullets that destroy the same rock pillars?



Umm, this is impressive how?  Naruto fell from rather insanely high up onto jagged sharp rocks and the rocks lost.  The rock bullets likely would hit Naruto and just break.



> Fireblasts that take down an airship?



Airships that are carried by balloons, balloons and fire don't mix


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## Commander Shepard (Feb 28, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Didn't the show itself call it Spirit Bending?



No, it wasn't really named in the show.  The Lion Turtle describing it as "In the era before the Avatar, we bent not the elements, but the _energy_ within ourselves.



> Aang didn't smash through rock pillars at high speed.  He likely used earth bending.  Something Sage Naruto could almost certainly do using pure strength at this point and rather easily.  It's also worth pointing out that I don't think we've ever seen Aang pull off a speed feat anywhere near what we've seen from Sage Naruto.



He was chasing a rocket-propelled Ozai when he smashed through 3 pillars without slowing.  And Aang made no earthbending motion while doing it; it wasn't earthbending.




> Umm, this is impressive how?  Naruto fell from rather insanely high up onto jagged sharp rocks and the rocks lost.  The rock bullets likely would hit Naruto and just break.



Oh, I'm sure Naruto could tank a couple of the bullets.  30 or 40, I'm not so sure about.



> Airships that are carried by balloons, balloons and fire don't mix


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## Herekic (Feb 28, 2009)

> He was chasing a rocket-propelled Ozai when he smashed through 3 pillars without slowing. And Aang made no earthbending motion while doing it; it wasn't earthbending.



he was also making earth bullets hover around him and encassing himself in an air bubble without bending motions. the avatr doesn't follow the same rules as normal benders.





> Oh, I'm sure Naruto could tank a couple of the bullets. 30 or 40, I'm not so sure about.




why not?

his endurance does not descrease the more aang hits him. I'm as impervious to 100 cotton balls as I am to the first one you threw at me.


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## Dexion (Feb 28, 2009)

Well I think this thread should be ended pretty soon cause Naruto apparently isn't done buffing himself.


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## Endless Mike (Feb 28, 2009)

Okay, let me try an explain this again:

In Naruto, you have chakra. Then you can turn it into various element chakra. Wind chakra is not wind, it can be used to make wind. But if also has the property of cutting when untransformed, just like earth chakra has the property of hardening/softening things, etc.

The Rasenshuriken is untransformed wind chakra (not wind) used as an offensive attack, because untransformed wind chakra has a cutting property that is effective for attacking. It is not wind because it was not transformed with elemental manipulation.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 1, 2009)

Herekic said:


> he was also making earth bullets hover around him and encassing himself in an air bubble without bending motions. the avatr doesn't follow the same rules as normal benders.



The pillars weren't part of Aang's element rings.



> why not?
> 
> his endurance does not descrease the more aang hits him. I'm as impervious to 100 cotton balls as I am to the first one you threw at me.



No-limits fallacy.  If someone throws a rock at you, it may bruise a bit but you'll shrug it off.  Now, throwing 100 rocks at people is how people died by stoning.



			
				Endless Mike said:
			
		

> Okay, let me try an explain this again:
> 
> In Naruto, you have chakra. Then you can turn it into various element chakra. Wind chakra is not wind, it can be used to make wind. But if also has the property of cutting when untransformed, just like earth chakra has the property of hardening/softening things, etc.
> 
> The Rasenshuriken is untransformed wind chakra (not wind) used as an offensive attack, because untransformed wind chakra has a cutting property that is effective for attacking. It is not wind because it was not transformed with elemental manipulation.



So... it acts like wind, but at the same time does not act like wind?

It's close enough.


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## Dexion (Mar 1, 2009)

^You just want to keep believing its wind but its not. It is 0% wind. If someone throws 100 pebbles or snowballs at me I will not die I can assure you that.


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## Antitard (Mar 1, 2009)

So how does Aang not get speed blitzed again?


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 1, 2009)

Only reason I can think of is that speedblitz isn't part of Naruto's standard MO. And that hardly holds any water at all.


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## Tyler (Mar 1, 2009)

Antitard said:


> So how does Aang not get speed blitzed again?



Because in the battledome Naruto characters are severely underrated. And their abilities are downplayed.  

In other words. They are hated in here, not by me though


----------



## Enclave (Mar 1, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> He was chasing a rocket-propelled Ozai when he smashed through 3 pillars without slowing.  And Aang made no earthbending motion while doing it; it wasn't earthbending.



Since when did an Avatar in the Avatar State have to follow the normal rules for bending?  We've seen Aang in the Avatar State do bending without doing motions.



> Oh, I'm sure Naruto could tank a couple of the bullets.  30 or 40, I'm not so sure about.



Why are you unsure about more?  Do they get progressively more and more compact so that they deal more and more damage each time Aang throws one at Naruto?  This is assuming Naruto even lets them hit him of course.



> That's only for hydrogen balloons, and Fire Nation airships are hot-air balloons.



You can take a hot air balloon out with a very little bit of fire.  See, hot air balloons heat up the air but you'll notice the actual flame is kept away from the balloon.  See, if you blast the casing with fire you risk the balloon catching on fire at which point it drops like a stone.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 1, 2009)

Enclave said:


> Since when did an Avatar in the Avatar State have to follow the normal rules for bending?  We've seen Aang in the Avatar State do bending without doing motions.



I'll use a similar moment as an example.

In his first encounter with Combustion Man, Aang was sent flying and hurled back down to earth through a rock pillar (similar pillars, but significantly smaller).  When doing it, he made a quick motion and formed a hole in the pillar before he passed through it.  In this case, it's indisputable that he used earthbending.

When chasing Ozai, no hole forms.  He just smashes through the pillars.  There is no reason to believe earthbending was involved.



> Why are you unsure about more?  Do they get progressively more and more compact so that they deal more and more damage each time Aang throws one at Naruto?  This is assuming Naruto even lets them hit him of course.



No, but they all get fired simultaneously, machine-gun style.  The damage piles up.



> You can take a hot air balloon out with a very little bit of fire.  See, hot air balloons heat up the air but you'll notice the actual flame is kept away from the balloon.  See, if you blast the casing with fire you risk the balloon catching on fire at which point it drops like a stone.



Last time I checked, metal airships aren't flammable.


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## Enclave (Mar 1, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> I'll use a similar moment as an example.
> 
> In his first encounter with Combustion Man, Aang was sent flying and hurled back down to earth through a rock pillar (similar pillars, but significantly smaller).  When doing it, he made a quick motion and formed a hole in the pillar before he passed through it.  In this case, it's indisputable that he used earthbending.
> 
> When chasing Ozai, no hole forms.  He just smashes through the pillars.  There is no reason to believe earthbending was involved.



As I recall vs Combustion Man Aang wasn't in Avatar State.  Remember, when he's in Avatar State he isn't subject to the normal rules for Bending.  Additionally, it's pretty clear that when he was fighting Ozai he was channeling the Avatar State to a far greater degree than he ever had previously.



> No, but they all get fired simultaneously, machine-gun style.  The damage piles up.



We're talking about a Naruto that sharp jagged rocks break on contact with him.  That's totally different from say throwing pebbles at somebody over and over.  It's more akin to throwing snowballs at somebody over and over again.



> Last time I checked, metal airships aren't flammable.





The balloon portion of the airships aren't metal, if they were they wouldn't be able to fly.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 1, 2009)

Enclave said:


> As I recall vs Combustion Man Aang wasn't in Avatar State.  Remember, when he's in Avatar State he isn't subject to the normal rules for Bending.  Additionally, it's pretty clear that when he was fighting Ozai he was channeling the Avatar State to a far greater degree than he ever had previously.



I know, I just used the closest example.  While the way Aang bends may change when in the AS, the way bending actually works does not.  If Aang used earthbending to pass through the pillar, a hole would have formed prior to passing through.  No hole formed.  Therefore, Aang did not use earthbending.  Simple.





> We're talking about a Naruto that sharp jagged rocks break on contact with him.  That's totally different from say throwing pebbles at somebody over and over.  It's more akin to throwing snowballs at somebody over and over again.



Your point?



> The balloon portion of the airships aren't metal, if they were they wouldn't be able to fly.



I know, and I've tried to figure out how the airships can be metal and be lifted by hot air.  Maybe it's an extremely lightweight metal.  But they still are metal.  They're gunmetal grey.  When Zuko shot Azula on the airship and she dodged in the episode "The Southern Raiders", the fire did nothing to the airship.  When the airships were crashing into each other in Sozin's Comet, they broke apart like metal.  When Sokka dug his sword into the airship as he and Toph fell down the side, it sparked and screeched like metal.  The airships are metal.


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## Bluebeard (Mar 1, 2009)

Aang would win. Aang has a wide array of attacks thanks to being able to control all 4 elements, while Sage Naruto mainly fights close-range. Aang seems to be a long-range fighter, so Naruto would be at a little loss in my opinion.


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## Endless Mike (Mar 2, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> So... it acts like wind, but at the same time does not act like wind?
> 
> It's close enough.



*sigh* - NO

The only way it "acts like wind" is that it can cut things. RL wind rarely cuts things anyway, so that's a very tenuous connection. It is not wind because it has not gone through elemental manipulation to be transformed into wind. It is just energy.


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## Herekic (Mar 2, 2009)

> The pillars weren't part of Aang's element rings.



which means nothing at all.

it was proof that avatar state aang bends without needing to move.


> No-limits fallacy. If someone throws a rock at you, it may bruise a bit but you'll shrug it off. Now, throwing 100 rocks at people is how people died by stoning.




no, a no-limits fallacy would be me saying no matter how fast aang threw it, and how hard it was, it wouldn't hurt naruto.

saying that something that would not damage him the first time will not damage him the 40th time is not a no limits fallacy.

again, I can throw 100 cotton balls at you in a row, but they still won't hurt you.

people die by stoning becvause their body is softer then the rock. naruto has proven that his body is far stronger then stone.





> So... it acts like wind, but at the same time does not act like wind?
> 
> It's close enough.




it in no way acts like wind. wind to my knowledge does not cut things lke a blade. 

you might as well say it acts liek water or light, sicne both of those things can be used to cut as well.

stop grasping at straws.


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## Caedus (Mar 2, 2009)

Couldnt Naruto just Speed Blitz or use FRS


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## Nihonjin (Mar 2, 2009)

^Yes, but try explaining that to some of the people in this thread...


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 2, 2009)

Herekic said:


> which means nothing at all.
> 
> it was proof that avatar state aang bends without needing to move.



Try reading a little farther down.  I came up with a better argument.  To repeat myself:


I'll use a similar moment as an example.

In his first encounter with Combustion Man, Aang was sent flying and hurled back down to earth through a rock pillar (similar pillars, but significantly smaller). When doing it, he made a quick motion and formed a hole in the pillar before he passed through it. In this case, it's indisputable that he used earthbending.

When chasing Ozai, no hole forms. He just smashes through the pillars. There is no reason to believe earthbending was involved.




> no, a no-limits fallacy would be me saying no matter how fast aang threw it, and how hard it was, it wouldn't hurt naruto.
> 
> saying that something that would not damage him the first time will not damage him the 40th time is not a no limits fallacy.
> 
> ...



Well, you are assuming that a rock bullet will cause no damage at all.  Certainly, it wouldn't cause very much, but it still would.  And the damage piles up.


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## Nihonjin (Mar 2, 2009)

Bender Alchemist said:


> When chasing Ozai, no hole forms. He just smashes through the pillars. *But *there is no reason to believe earthbending was*n't* involved.



Fixed...


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## Herekic (Mar 2, 2009)

> Well, you are assuming that a rock bullet will cause no damage at all. Certainly, it wouldn't cause very much, but it still would. And the damage piles up.
> __________________



nothing it has shown would indicate it would hurt him.

he fell from very high up, with his full weight coming down on top of a sharp rock spike.


the rock spike was smashed and naruto did not have a scratch. this was also incomplete sage mode.

naruto's full weight dropping on to that spike from as high as he did>aang's rock bullets.


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## Banhammer (Mar 2, 2009)

Herekic said:


> nothing it has shown would indicate it would hurt him.
> 
> he fell from very high up, with his full weight coming down on top of a sharp rock spike.
> 
> ...



Uh, no, not really, Non cometed Iroh has that feat too :S


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## Banhammer (Mar 2, 2009)

Nihonjin said:


> Fixed...



unfix it. It's clearly the airbending, as proven by the explosions of energy, and not just passing through it as if it were water that happens with earthbending.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 3, 2009)

Herekic said:


> nothing it has shown would indicate it would hurt him.
> 
> he fell from very high up, with his full weight coming down on top of a sharp rock spike.
> 
> ...



Didn't have a scratch?  Can you show me the exact scan, please?


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## Fang (Mar 3, 2009)

Senjutsu Naruto stopped the charge of a massive giant rhino while holding and bracing against the force of its body.

Yeah Aang has nothing on that.

Seriously this a complete curbstomp for Naruto.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 3, 2009)

That's more of a strength feat than a durability feat...


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## Fang (Mar 3, 2009)

It's still Senjutsu Naruto tanking the charge of the Rhino Summon like it was nothing and the force of its own body as well.

Derp.


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 3, 2009)

But it doesn't mean Naruto could tank the rhino if it hit right in the chest, or head.


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## Fang (Mar 3, 2009)

He casually stopped its attack with his hands, while bracing its whole mass while it was charging. It's as much a durability feat as it is a strength feat.

And there's also the fact he can leap hundreds of meters into the sky before using his Kage Bunshins to bolster him further and be perfectly fine landing on the ground, including into sharp jagged rocks.


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## Onomatopoeia (Mar 3, 2009)

One would think that strength and durability go hand in hand. In order to punch someone into orbit wouldn't your body have to be strong enough to resist the force of it or something technical to that effect?

Something to the effect of if you can lift a mountain make sure your bones don't snap under the weight, even if you could conceivably lift it, non?


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## Commander Shepard (Mar 3, 2009)

Well, that makes sense.  I guess the rhino does count as a durability feat against blunt force.  But it says nothing about resisting piercing or burning.


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## Fang (Mar 3, 2009)

He fell hundreds of meters into the ground and hit jagged rocks.

They didn't do anything to him.


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## Herekic (Mar 3, 2009)

> Didn't have a scratch? Can you show me the exact scan, please?





fangs of steel

fangs of steel

fangs of steel


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

*Fire bending *: Fire Disks: A whirling disk of flame, used at long range. Only Azula has shown the ability to create these. In "The Earth Kingdom Chronicles: The Tale of Azula", she calls this her "pinwheel attack". 

Charged Attacks: Certain Firebenders have been shown charging their attacks before releasing them, allowing them to create enormous blasts of fire. Zuko and Iroh used a combined charged attack against Aang, in "The Avatar Returns". Zhao may have charged some of his attacks before releasing them when he fought Aang in "The Deserter". Azula used this skill in "The Drill" against Aang. Zuko was shown using this technique in "The Crossroads of Destiny" against both Aang and Katara. Iroh also used a charged fire blast against Dai Li agents in the same episode. In "Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into The Inferno", Fire Lord Ozai used a charged fire blast from his airship to begin his assault on the Earth Kingdom. Fire Lord Sozin may have used a charged blast against Avatar Roku when he unleashed a wave of fire against him in "The Avatar and the Fire Lord" 

Wall of Flames: One of Firebending's few defensive abilities, either a situated explosion or controlled inferno, this wall concentrated flames acts as a barrier to incoming attacks. It may be a more powerful version of a Fire Shield. It not only protects against attacks, but when used right, can be used to stealthily escape from foes. Azula once used it to deflect four simultaneous attacks from all four elements to provide herself a stealthy escape. Zuko used it to stop a combustion attack (although he was still being pushed back by the force). Master Jeong Jeong also used this method to stop a group of Fire Navy patrol boats; so precise was his control he could allow the flames to burn on water. He later created another wall/shield to deflect four Firebending attacks, and escaped from Zhao. Later in "Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into The Inferno", Jeong Jeong used the technique to push back several Fire Nation tanks, which shows that it can also be an offensive move. It should be noted that at that instance, Firebending was being powered by Sozin's Comet. 

Heat Redirection: Only seen performed by Fire Lord Sozin, maybe unique to him or simply an advanced technique. Heat absorption allows for the absorption of heat from one hand and passing through one's body and out the other hand. Used to cool down the lava during the eruption that destroyed Avatar Roku's town. It appears to operate on a similar principle to Iroh's redirection of lightning technique. 

Fire Augmentation: Firebenders can also control the size and intensity of any nearby flames and can draw them in and manipulate them at will. Avatar Roku used this method to protect himself and counter an attack by Zhao and his soldiers while his spirit was channeled by Aang. In "The Deserter", Jeong Jeong augments the fire in his candles while he is discouraging Aang. When Azula scared Chan in The Beach, it can be seen that the torch behind Azula also fell under her Firebending, as it burned bright blue. Zuko augmented a fire in the same episode, while he was confronting his anger issues. A simpler example is when Fire Lords are in the throne. As shown in "The Storm" and "Zuko Alone", when Ozai and Azulon got angry, the flames rose up higher and burned more rapidly. The prime example is shown in "Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into The Inferno" when Azula is on the throne, all the flames around her, and in the room are all burning bright blue. 

Jet Propulsion: Skilled Firebending masters are able to conjure huge amounts of flame to propel themselves at high speeds on the ground or through the air. It was first demonstrated by Azula during her battle with Aang in "The Crossroads of Destiny". During the fight, Azula releases the flames she used to propel herself horizontally, which blasted Aang backwards. In the "The Boiling Rock, Part 2" Azula uses this skill to propel herself through the air, as she is pursuing Zuko, Sokka, and Suki when they are escaping the prison. In "The Southern Raiders" when Azula is knocked off an airship, she uses a smaller burst of fire to propel herself on to a cliff, saving herself from falling to her death. In the series finale, Ozai and Jeong Jeong are shown to also be capable of utilizing this skill with much more proficiency than Azula has ever shown, though this is possibly due to the arrival of Sozin's Comet enhancing their abilities. Azula and Zuko both executed this technique while powered by the comet during their Agni Kai. 

Avatar Level Firebending  
An Avatar erupting volcanoesLava/Magma Bending: Avatar-level Firebenders are able to bend lava and magma, although not with the same ease with which Waterbenders bend water, and even cause dormant volcanoes to erupt at will. This ability contrasts sharply with other types of Firebending, as lava and magma are superheated physical substances, rather than a chemical reaction. So far, this ability has only been demonstrated by Avatar Roku, Avatar Kyoshi and an unnamed Fire Nation Avatar, suggesting that an ordinary Firebender would be incapable of performing the technique. 

Some suggest that this kind of bending can be done by Avatars because it involves mastery of Earthbending (since lava/magma is molten rock) and a good knowledge of Waterbending (as this art would require fluid movements), on top of Firebending. 

Long-Range Multiple Fire Whips: An Avatar-level Firebender can procure up to five simultaneous fire-whips (one from each limb, one from the mouth). They have very long ranges, as seen in "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang", when Aang used the technique from hundreds of feet above Ozai. This may have been a result of his firebending being augmented by Sozin's comet, and/or because he was in the Avatar State at the time. Each fire-whip is also very wide and they move in a similar fashion to squid or octopus tentacles. they have enough destructive power to demolish large rock formations. Lastly, this could be the technique Shyu was referring to when he said that "only a fully realized avatar can open the sanctuary doors alone."


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

*Earthbending*
Earth Tunneling: Earthbenders can move through the earth to out-maneuver their foes either by opening tunnels or by pulling the earth past them, literally swimming through the ground. 

Earth Armor: Earthbenders can bring rocks, dusts, pebbles or crystals around them and mold them to fit their body and create something similar to armor. They can also hide inside the earth by bending the rock around them as a shell. Later, it is demonstrated by Toph that metal can be used as armor as well. Aang used this technique with crystals against Azula in "The Crossroads of Destiny", and again with normal rocks against Ozai in "Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into The Inferno". 

Earth Wave: Earthbenders create a wave of earth that they ride on and use as a form of transportation, as Aang and Toph have both done in "The Crossroads of Destiny" as well as Roku and Sud in "The Avatar and the Fire Lord". They can also force a wave of earth outwards, and use it as an extremely powerful offensive attack, as Aang was seen doing in "The Avatar State". 

Earth Bomb: By sending a rock towards the ground, Earthbenders can cause massive damage as well as throw their opponents off their feet. Aang used it in "The Crossroads of Destiny" against Zuko, almost gaining the upper hand of the battle before the Dai Li intervened. 

Remote Earthbending: If an Earthbender is suspended from the ground, but is aware that there is earth somewhere near, the Earthbender can focus his energies and bend that earth out of his physical reach out of sheer concentration. This was shown in a flashback in "Sozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters", when Bumi tells Team Avatar (sans Aang) how he freed himself during the eclipse. Bumi managed to summon some roof tiles and pieces of walls to rip open the front of his metal coffin. In "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang", Aang uses this technique to summon rocks for his Elemental Sphere while in the Avatar State. 

Avatar Level Earthbending
Greater Earth & Stone Levitation: With their greater power and stronger connection to the earth (being the reincarnation of the planet's spirit itself), Avatars can move hill-sized statues at will. In "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang", Aang moves various earth pillars in his fight against Ozai, both for offense and defense. 

Tectonics: The Avatar can create crevasses so deep they even fracture landmasses as shown by Avatar Kyoshi in "Avatar Day" when she separated Kyoshi island from the mainland. 

Powered Compression: This much more powerful version of the Earth Compression technique, performed only by Aang while in the Avatar State in "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang". Instead of bending large chunks of earth into a single projectile, Aang gathered boulder-sized rocks and simultaneously compress each fragment into smaller, denser and harder rocks, essentially keeping the rocks under pressure for more volatile attacks if needed. Lastly, the rocks are directed to orbit around until they are put to use. 

Compressed Rock Bullets: Shown solely by Aang in his fight with Phoenix King Ozai. Aang took one of his compressed rocks from his Elemental Sphere and sent shrapnel like pieces of it with great speed, in a machine gun-like fashion. Due to the speed and density of these rocks, they made great damage to the landscape. It is similar to the Rock Gloves technique used by the Dai Li.

And finally, *Airbending*
Air Vortex: A spinning funnel of air of various sizes. This can be used to trap and disorient opponents or as a potent defense since it will deflect and repel any objects and can even throw them back at an opponent (as demonstrated by Aang in his duel with Bumi, the air column easily throwing aside a boulder the size of a bus). 

Air Wake: First shown by Aang in "The Crossroads of Destiny", by running in a circle and instantly building huge inertia, a master Airbender can shoot a blast of compressed air shaped like the user's body at a target. 

Air Blades: A more offensive move than is typical of Airbending principle, this involves a focus slicing air current that can cut through stone or timber with relative ease. This is frequently conjured with a staff rather than the body, using the narrow profile of the object to create a more focused and precise air movement. This move could prove fatal if used on an individual. 


Avatar Roku using Air Spout.Air Spout: Similar to the Water Spout, master Airbenders are able to rotate and control the direction of the Air Spout enough to levitate them off the ground and remain in the air for as long as they wish to or can maintain it. First shown by Aang in "The Avatar State", when Aang, enraged and in the Avatar State, rose into the air to destroy General Fong's base with a wave of earth. Avatar Roku also demonstrated it by using it to get to eye level with Fire Lord Sozin (who was suspended in the air with only an earth column to keep him from falling to his death) and deliver a final warning in "The Avatar and the Fire Lord". 

Air Concussor: The air concussor is a highly destructive move (atypical for Air Nomad principle) in which an airbender creates (with use of a staff) a thin wave of air that travels quickly along the ground, releasing a near-explosive power when coming into contact with anything in its path. Aang used this move several times in "The Desert" to utterly annihilate the Sand-sailors of a group of Sandbenders, sending pieces of shattered wood and torn sails in all directions. Prior to this event, Aang also used this move on a Buzzard-Wasp, greatly injuring or possibly killing it after it had flown off with Momo. The air concussor is even able to run along water before destroying its target as seen in "The Swamp" when Aang used it to destroy a Swampbender canoe. 

Mini-Tornado: This is a smaller scaled version of the air vortex which airbending masters can use as a means of both combat and transport. By encircling themselves in a spiralling air current, masters can travel at high speeds and even ascend near-verticle drops as shown by Aang during the battle of Wulong Forest where he narrowly avoids a lightening blast from Firelord Ozai by creating a mini-tornado and moving to the top of a rock column. Although not featured on the show, the mini-tornado could potentially be used as a weapon in a similar fashion to the air vortex. 

Avatar Level Airbending
Augmented Airbending Moves: While in the Avatar State, all of the previously discussed airbending moves are generally augmented making them far more powerful in an Avatar than even a bending master. This ability of the avatar state to increase the power of an avatar's bending technique is not restricted, of course, to airbending; in fact an avatar's power increases with all the bending styles once they have entered the avatar state. 

Aang creating a tornado.Tornadoes/Hurricanes: In addition to very large and powerful air movements, an Avatar level bender can create massive tornadoes and hurricanes at will. 

Air Sphere: Similar to the air shield, this powerful defense surrounds the bender in a sphere of spinning air that deflects anything coming in at them, levitate across varied distances and can even disintegrate the ground beneath them. Aang subconsciously uses this every time he enters the Avatar State when angered. 

Strong Wind: It is possible for the Avatar to unleash extremely powerful winds. In "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang", while extinguishing three enormous fire whips, Aang unleashed a straightforward wind attack at Ozai. Though the attack missed its target, it did great damage to a nearby rock pillar, breaking it in half. 

Independent Flight: Aang was initially able only to hover for extended periods of time while in the Avatar State, but in "Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang", Aang utilizes this technique for flight. The Avatar flies at high-speeds while inside the air sphere, which also acts as a barrier to protect the bender during impacts.


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

Strategy:
Whilst in Part I Naruto generally shows a lack of intelligence, he has the ability to instantly come up with useful and unpredictable strategies when needed. The first example of this was seen in the Land of Waves, where he deduced a three-part strategy, with some help from Sasuke, to free Kakashi from Zabuza's Water Prison Technique. 

The second example is when he was fighting Gaara during the invasion of Konoha, where he seemed to try to use a kunai to perform One Thousand Years of Death. However, the kunai was later revealed to have an exploding tag wrapped around the handle, which exploded in Gaara's armor at its weakest spot, damaging it greatly and disorientating Gaara. 

The third was that he allowed himself to be injured by Kabuto in order to trap him, bringing him in range for his first real use of Rasengan while he was immobilized due to his broken legs. 

In Part II Naruto shows he has learned how to exploit his opponents weaknesses as shown when he figured out how to pass Kakashi's second bell test by pretending to spoil the ending of Jiraiya's new book, which forced Kakashi to leave himself vulnerable while trying not to hear it. Another example of Naruto's improved sense of strategy mixed with his own brand of recklessness was during his fight with Kakuzu where he mixed his real self in with his shadow clones knowing that Kakuzu would naturally assume the real Naruto was the one holding the Rasenshuriken, Naruto used the time while Kakuzu was attacking the fake Naruto to make his own Rasenshuriken and attack Kakuzu from behind. The most recent example was his strategy to defeat the last of Nagato's Six Paths of Pain with an elaborate array of back-up plans. 

Shadow Clone Technique 
Naruto's shadow clones surrounding Mizuki.After learning the Shadow Clone Technique, it quickly becomes Naruto's signature jutsu. He often has more success when using it than he does simpler techniques, and is otherwise able to use it to great effect because of his large chakra reserves. The Shadow Clone Technique allows Naruto to create replicas of himself. Unlike the Clone Technique, the replicas are physical beings rather than illusions, making them capable of attacking and intercepting blows, and even adding intensity to one's training. He even uses his shadow clones to "add" to his first jutsu to create the Harem Technique,[3] though it is still a fairly useless technique. 

In the beginning, Naruto primarily creates shadow clones for the purpose of taijutsu, combining physical assaults or simply overwhelming the opponent. Naruto also often creates shadow clones to act as decoys or for other deceptive tactics, such as diverting attention away from himself so that he may use the Transformation Technique unnoticed. Naruto makes more intelligent and better control of his clones as the series progresses. In his fight with Neji, for instance, Naruto dispersed several of his shadow clones, creating the illusion that Neji had hit the real Naruto.[4] Later in the series, Naruto would hide away while several clones attacked, confusing the enemy when there was no Naruto remaining. During his fight with Gaara, Naruto even used his clones as shields and platforms to bound off of in the air. 

By Part II, Naruto's usage and timing of the technique has become more advanced. Various tactics he has shown include creating clones to push himself out of the way of an attack, transform into weapons, and fall for traps in his stead. He has also learned to use the clones to determine an opponent's abilities, and how many shadow clones he will really need without wasting any extra chakra. He loses none of his physical prowess when using this technique, as he managed to stop a sword with his bare hands without any injury to himself. 

Summoning Technique 
Naruto using the Summoning Technique.Naruto was taught how to use the Summoning Technique by Jiraiya in order to give him an ally in battle, and to help him take advantage of the Nine-Tails' chakra reserves. The type of toads he can summon is proportional to his chakra and skill, as when he first started out he could only summon tadpoles. At first, he seemed to have a hard time getting any specific toad, as he summoned either Gamakichi or Gamatatsu, but when he used the Nine-Tails' chakra, he was able to summon the toad boss, Gamabunta. As the animals have minds of their own, Naruto has difficulty controlling them, meaning that they typically have to become motivated to fight on their own. Naruto made only occasional use of the Summoning Technique during Part I, with almost no use of it in Part II outside of the anime. 

Rasengan
Naruto's most useful offensive technique is the Rasengan, a jutsu his father invented. Unlike Jiraiya or Kakashi, Naruto has to use two hands to create the Rasengan, due to his lack of chakra control. However, even with his two hands, he couldn't form a proper Rasengan sphere. Only by using the hands of shadow clones to make a "shell" was he able to master it. When he is in his tailed transformations, he has the ability to mold the chakra into a sphere with just one hand using the Nine-Tails' chakra alone. In Part II, Naruto showed off his own versions of the Rasengan, the Great Ball Rasengan, the Wind Release: Rasengan, and the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken. After his senjutsu training with Fukasaku, he is also able to create Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan and Rasenrengan. 

In each of the various Naruto movies, Naruto uses a new type of Rasengan, often facilitated by a character or form of energy unique to that movie. 

Addition of Wind Element Chakra
After failing to bring Sasuke back to Konoha, Naruto went through element training, and learned of his rare affinity towards wind chakra, allowing him to increase his attack and slicing power by channeling his wind chakra through his weapons and jutsu. He has since made his own version of the Rasengan, the Wind Release: Rasengan, by combining both shape and nature manipulation, something deemed impossible without some form of natural talent or instinct. This new technique, while stronger than the Rasengan, was only a prelude to its full potential. 

Naruto would later improve it to create the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken, a much more powerful technique, capable of causing cellular damage to the victim, though at the cost of the user being damaged similarly. After his senjutsu training, he managed to perfect the technique, and can throw the Rasenshuriken as one would initially believe, thus removing the hazard to the user. Furthermore, the Rasenshuriken now has the ability to expand soon after being thrown, thus greatly increasing the power and attack radius of the technique. 

Senjutsu and Sage Mode 
Naruto in Sage Mode.During his tutelage with Fukasaku in Myobokuzan, Naruto was taught how to enter Sage Mode, which boosts his power and endurance, and enables him to use senjutsu. In order to achieve this power, Naruto had to learn to sense and control the natural energy surrounding him. Once attaining this feat, he perfected the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken. Fukasaku then proceeded to teach him Frog Kata, which is a special type of taijutsu that uses the natural energy surrounding the user in order to enhance the range and the potency of each hit. In Sage Mode, Naruto has shown the ability to defeat all of the Six Paths of Pain, something no-one else has ever accomplished. 

During Naruto's battle with Pain, it was revealed that Naruto has used his experience from developing the Rasenshuriken to overcome the limitations of Sage Mode to not move. His plan was to leave a shadow clone somewhere in a safe place (Myobokuzan) and have the clones continuously gather natural energy, and infuse it with the clones' chakra. Thus, when the real Naruto's senjutsu chakra was depleted, he could have the clones disperse it in order to have the senjutsu chakra gathered by the clone transferred to him, thus allowing Naruto to return to Sage Mode while moving. Naruto also revealed that, while in Sage Mode, he can only create up to four shadow clones in total, as creating more clones would disrupt the ones trying to gather the senjutsu chakra.


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## Platinum (Jul 6, 2009)

Why the fuck did you resurrect this damn thread ?


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

Now time for feats and the conclusion.
Let's start with Naruto.

Physical Strength: Amazing to say the least. Has enough physical power to lift several tons, and if these weren't cartoon shows, would be an unstoppable beast. One of the strongest in the entire series.

Speed: Once again, amazing, one of the fastest in the entire series.

A Rashenshuriken would be a death blow in my opinion. Naruto's most amazing battle so far was with the mighty Pein. He showed plenty of power here, and he and Pain did lots of damage.

Special techniques: Alright I guess, Rasenshuriken is his best bet, anything else will be fail against Avatar Aang.

Now for Aang.
Physical Strength: meh, normal human at best.

Speed; pretty fast, though I don't think Avatar speeds compare to Naruto speeds at all.

Most beastly battle: With Ozai. Here you'll notice these two were fighting at an amazing level, they were smashing through stone faces with ease and anything not powerful enough to at least obliterate one of those cliffs, was probably usless in the fight.

Special abilities: BEASTLY! In the Avatar state he gains the knowledge and skill of all previous Avatars, which are rumored to be at least a thousand.

Winner: Aang.

Why: I can see Naruto giving a fight, but without Toads, there's really nothing he can give here to bypass all of Aang's special powers. Now if he's backed up, then maybe being covered on more than one flank will put Aang down, but for the now, he is the victor.

All information available at Narutopedia and Avatar Wiki.


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

Because I'm a noob, that's why. Seriously, this is my first day here.


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## Darth Nihilus (Jul 6, 2009)

A r g u m e n t u m A d V e r b o s i u m 

Thank you, and g'day


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## Platinum (Jul 6, 2009)

OutlawJohn said:


> Because I'm a noob, that's why. Seriously, this is my first day here.



Not an excuse.

Don't necro old threads when we have already agreed on the damn winner.


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## OutlawJohn (Jul 6, 2009)

Really, who?


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## Platinum (Jul 6, 2009)

OutlawJohn said:


> Really, who?



Naruto in a stomp.


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## kidgogeta (Jul 7, 2009)

This is in Narutos favor. Naruto has shown to be very strategic and of given any chance he or any of his clones will ruin Aang. I've watched all the episodes of Avatar and anyone who has saw how long it took for Aang to put up is all elements shield. IF Aang isn't instantly killed by a rasengan blitz his durability is amazing. He can slice through rocks with his water you say? Base Naruto breaks through those same rocks easily and this is SM. Aang doesn't have the raw power to put Naruto down fast enough for Naruto to come up with a plan to catch him off guard. Naruto has tons of options. He can bunshin into a rock and wait till Aang calms down and 1 shot him or he can wear down his shield.Aang doesn't leave this fight alive no matter what. Lets say Naruto had a heart attack ok then the Kyuubi is freed and destroys the entire Avatar World.


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## Commander Shepard (Jul 7, 2009)

Gah, thread necro  +1


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## Elite Ace (Jul 7, 2009)

Endless Mike said:


> Rasenshuriken works on the same principle as the normal Rasengan - many chaotic currents intermixing, I've never seen Aang manipulate something so complex and chaotic moving at such a high speed,* especially in the little time he would have before it hit him*


 
Yes, inb4 that Rasenshuriken is Hypersonic at Mach 11... or whatever it was

Seriously if this was Luffy vs Avatar Aang, everyone would have accepted Luffy wins. This time its the same but with Naruto with less speed and less power and also less durability but still enough to have the same result as the Luffy vs Avatar Aang match.

Edit: After reading most of the thread about elemental control crap, I would like to say something.

Manewe Sulimo (cant do the fancy "e" or "u"  ), I believe Aang can reduce Rasenshuriken's speed and power to 1/3 as you addmited before Aang can atleast manipulate the wind part of Rasenshuriken. So what ?

A not-perfected Rasenshuriken did this.

Link removed

I doubt Aang can even defend himself from a perfected Rasenshuriken at 2/3 of its power. Don't say a 100 ton rock pillar will block it or that Aang's wind shield will block it 

Aang has nothing that can stop that attack and speed reduction doesn't matter as it was calculated to be atleast supersonic and at high end calculations Rasenshuriken is suppose to be Mach 11 or something


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## Banhammer (Jul 7, 2009)

I will personally take it up to myself to shoot any further thread zombies in the head.

If you choose to be one of them, do me a favor and tell me how much I neg for these days


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## kidgogeta (Jul 7, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> I will personally take it up to myself to shoot any further thread zombies in the head.
> 
> If you choose to be one of them, do me a favor and tell me how much I neg for these days



Umm the thread wasn't even old was it? I posted a day after the last poster? How bitter of a human being can you be?

Edit: Doh a victim of a previous necro


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