# Godzilla (2014) vs. Pacific Rim



## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

"Let them fight." 

*Location:* Hong Kong, in the water, at night (a la Jaegers vs. Leatherback & Otachi)
*Distance:* 500m apart
*Knowledge:* None
*Mindset:* In-character
*Conditions/Restrictions:*
-Godzilla takes on all the listed opponents and is fully restored going into each fight.
-Assume the city has been totally evacuated, so the Jaeger pilots and the folks over at the Shatterdome won't have to worry about collateral damage and can fight with everything they have.

*The Opponents:*

1. Knifehead
2. Leatherback
3. Otachi
4. Crimson Typhoon & Cherno Alpha
5. Striker Eureka & Gipsy Danger (no sword, no self-destruct)
6. Slattern
7. Gipsy Danger
8. Leatherback & Otachi
9. Gipsy & Striker with the 1.2Mt nuke

It's finally time for this.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

Classic nukes were useless against Godzilla. Nothing in Pacific Rim has a chance at putting it down aside from the megaton nuke/Gipsy's detonation, and the chances of those happening before it rips all of them apart are slim. Even then, that's a double-edged sword.


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## trance (May 17, 2014)

Might clear Knifehead. Leatherback manhandles him. 

In all seriousness, best case scenario, he shouldn't be able to beat Gipsy. Raleigh and Mako should intelligent enough to recognize that his "atomic breath" will fuck them, plus, it seems to require a small charge time. Godzilla is probably physically stronger but being piloted by two elite pilots, they are without a doubt the more intelligent and resourceful fighter. That sword will also pick apart Godzilla.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> That sword will also pick apart Godzilla.



When Godzilla laughs off nukes? I don't think so.

The Kaiju have the speed advantage, but they can't do anything to Godzilla. Gipsy and Striker are capable of taking it out, but IC they will get ripped apart before they realize nuking themselves is the only option, and that's a tie anyway.


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## trance (May 17, 2014)

Cooly said:


> When Godzilla laughs off nukes? I don't think so.



Does this Godzilla get that Godzilla's feats or are they one in the same? 

Forgive my ignorance, I'm not that knowledgeable with Godzilla.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Godzilla only survived a kiloton nukes in the new movie, they were planning on using a megaton nuke to kill him, but it was unknown if he would survive. So his durability is a bit ambiguous, even the lowest level Kaiju like Tresspasser survived several nukes.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Yeah, Godzilla's not just shrugging off Gipsy's sword. Doesn't matter how many kiloton-level nukes he tanked; Gipsy itself withstood the 1.2Mt one. So did Slattern, and Gipsy was able to kill that fucker with a discharge of radioactive heat from its chest vent. Sorry but the Big G doesn't get a free pass here.

The biggest thing I see hurting him though is his speed (or lack thereof); the Muto seemed to be running circles around Godzilla when double-teaming him, so I have some doubts about Godzilla's ability to perform against multiple Jaegers/Kaiju at once--especially Leatherback and Otachi, given how brutally they wrecked Cherno and Crimson. I would expect atomic breath to even the playing field, but it depends if Godzilla can manage to use it inbetween beatings.

One-on-one, I don't think he'll have a problem; Godzilla vs. Gipsy seems like it could be a pretty interesting match.

EDIT: In terms of physical strength, the Big G is probably in a whole other weight class compared to any of these Jaegers or Kaiju, however.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Gipsy was waaaaaaaay to far away from that 1.2mt nuke to count, only Slatten gets the 1.2mt durability.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Godzilla only survived a kiloton nukes in the new movie, they were planning on using a megaton nuke to kill him, but it was unknown if he would survive. So his durability is a bit ambiguous, even the lowest level Kaiju like Tresspasser survived several nukes.



In the movie, it was stated that a combination of artillery and air strikes took down Trespasser over a period of like six days. I think it was a comic or something where they used three small tactical nukes.

In any case, it wasn't just one nuke that this Godzilla survived; it was said the U.S. military had been trying to kill it with their nuclear tests in the Pacific. That's a lot of nukes. The nuke they were going to kill him and the Mutos with in San Fran had a yield of an unspecified number of Megatons, but I do distinctly remember it being plural. The one Gipsy and Slattern survived was only 1.2Mt.

I actually think this new Godzilla is pretty well matched with the PR Jaegers and Kaiju.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

I don't remember the low-level kaiju taking nukes.

I did forget about Slattern taking the megaton nuke, though. Considering Gipsy and Striker are able to do anything at all to it, they should be able to harm Godzilla. That's my mistake.


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## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Godzilla is larger than every Jaeger and Kaju...combined.  He weighs 100,000 tons!  Slattern is a puny 7000!  They're like bugs next to him.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Gipsy was waaaaaaaay to far away from that 1.2mt nuke to count, only Slatten gets the 1.2mt durability.



After watching the movie a second time recently, I definitely have to disagree; Gipsy was within the blast radius and not only got hit by the shockwave, but the receding water that had been displaced by it as well (and that was a heck of a lot of water, considering how far down they were). And there's also the rather apparent observation that Gipsy managed to stab Slattern and was grappling with it in the end.

Gipsy may not have been as close to the bomb as Slattern when it detonated, but it still got hit by the explosion. It deserves some credit for that.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Godzilla is larger than every Jaeger and Kaju...combined.  He weighs 100,000 tons!  Slattern is a puny 7000!  They're like bugs next to him.



Incorrect. IIRC, this new Godzilla's volume *if filled with water* would weigh 90,000 tons, according to an official source.

Godzilla's actual weight is probably substantially less than that. Though it is certainly easy to see that he outweighs anything in Pacific Rim just by looking at him.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> In the movie, it was stated that a combination of artillery and air strikes took down Trespasser over a period of like six days. I think it was a comic or something where they used three small tactical nukes.



It was the offical novel, and nothing said of their size.





> The fight against Trespasser lasts for six days before the military would finally resort to using three nuclear missiles to kill it.





> In any case, it wasn't just one nuke that this Godzilla survived; it was said they had been trying to kill it with their nuclear tests in the Pacific. That's a lot of nukes. The nuke they were going to kill him and the Mutos with in San Fran had a yield of an unspecified number of Megatons, but I do distinctly remember it being plural.



I doubt they were launching multiple nukes at a time to Kill Godzilla, but the point was they only use kiloton nukes to try and kill it before, the new one would be the megatons and make the old ones look like firepower.



> The one Gipsy and Slattern survived was only 1.2Mt.



Only Slatten tanked it, Gipsy was far away from the blast.



> I actually think this new Godzilla is pretty well matched with the PR Jaegers and Kaiju.



Maybe against the Jaegers, he has a massive weight and size advantage and knock them on their ass easily, but the Kaiju would be a bit more difficult.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> After watching the movie a second time recently, I definitely have to disagree; Gipsy was within the blast radius and not only got hit by the shockwave, but the receding water that had been displaced by it as well (and that was a heck of a lot of water, considering how far down they were). And there's also the rather apparent observation that Gipsy managed to stab Slattern and was grappling with it in the end.
> 
> Gipsy may not have been as close to the bomb as Slattern when it detonated, but it still got hit by the explosion. It deserves some credit for that.



Inverse-square law. Being caught in the blast radius means next to nothing when it was so far away from the center.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

> Gipsy may not have been as close to the bomb as Slattern when it detonated, but it still got hit by the explosion. It deserves some credit for that.



Is it a durability feat? Yes, but its only a fraction of the original value, just being 10m away you are getting hit with substantially less energy. Normally we just ignore the inverse square law, but Gipsy was too far away to get the entire yield of the blast.


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## trance (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Maybe against the Jaegers, he has a massive weight and size advantage and knock them on their ass easily, but the Kaiju would be a bit more difficult.



Yea, considering how Leatherback chucked Gipsy all the way from the bay well into the city kinda proves that the Kaiju have a strength advantage over the Jaegers. 

Leatherback vs. Godzilla in a wrestling match would be interesting.


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## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Incorrect. IIRC, this new Godzilla's volume *if filled with water* would weigh 90,000 tons, according to an official source.
> 
> Godzilla's actual weight is probably substantially less than that. Though it is certainly easy to see that he outweighs anything in Pacific Rim just by looking at him.



Godzilla 14' is the largest of them all.  Prior to him, Heisei Godzilla held the record at 60,000 tons.  That's almost ten times the size of Slattern, the largest anything from Pacific Rim.  There isn't anything from Pacific Rim that Godzilla couldn't step on and break like a twig.

Even if every jaeger and kaju from Pacific Rim bum rushed Godzilla all at the same time, he'd flatten them all in under a minute.


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## Nighty the Mighty (May 17, 2014)

>believing monster movie weight figures
>ever


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## Tom Servo (May 17, 2014)

Godzilla is smarter, more durable and has high speed regeneration  nobody in Pacific Rim is beating him.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> It was the offical novel, and nothing said of their size.



Then we can assume they were small tactical nukes since it took three of them to down a single Kaiju of probably lower than Category 4 standing. Two Cat 4s were wiped out by the 1.2Mt nuke.



> I doubt they were launching multiple nukes at a time to Kill Godzilla, but the point was they only use kiloton nukes to try and kill it before, the new one would be the megatons and make the old ones look like firepower.



That's the general idea, yes.

But he took more than three nukes, that is for damn certain. And he didn't die.



> Only Slatten tanked it, Gipsy was far away from the blast.



Being far away from the blast doesn't mean Gipsy wasn't hit by the blast. Gipsy very clearly was hit by the blast--judging by that enormous volume of ocean all around it that simply vanished and then came crashing back.



> Maybe against the Jaegers, he has a massive weight and size advantage and knock them on their ass easily, but the Kaiju would be a bit more difficult.



I don't think that's disputed.



Cooly said:


> Inverse-square law. Being caught in the blast radius means next to nothing when it was so far away from the center.



Inverse-square law doesn't mean that being farther away from the source equals not getting hit at all.



Xiammes said:


> Is it a durability feat? Yes, but its only a fraction of the original value, just being 10m away you are getting hit with substantially less energy. Normally we just ignore the inverse square law, but Gipsy was too far away to get the entire yield of the blast.



Even Slattern wasn't hit with all of it--that's not how it works. But yes, both were caught in the blast radius and both took the hit and withstood it--even if Gipsy wasn't hit as hard.


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## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> >believing monster movie weight figures
> >ever



Those are the specs.  What they seem to have done with Pacific Rim is take a navy ship, turn it up on it's end, and based on the height determined the relative weight of the Jaegers and Kaju.  Gypsy is about the size of a destroyer.  Slattern is about the size of a light cruiser.  And they're absolutely puny next to battleships and carriers.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Inverse-square law doesn't mean that being farther away from the source equals not getting hit at all.



>"next to nothing"

As far as Godzilla is concerned? Might as well equal such.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I doubt they were launching multiple nukes at a time to Kill Godzilla, but the point was they only use kiloton nukes to try and kill it before, the new one would be the megatons and make the old ones look like firepower.


The movie clearly said that all the Bikini Atol tests were to kill Godzilla, which didn't do anything to him. And it was in 1954 when it started, the nukes would be reaching megaton range. 




> Only Slatten tanked it, Gipsy was far away from the blast.


Didn't Slatten use the body of another Kaiju as a shield?




> Maybe against the Jaegers, he has a massive weight and size advantage and knock them on their ass easily, but the Kaiju would be a bit more difficult.


Why? Godzilla towers above both Jaegers and Kaiju. 106 Meters tall (and with enough mass to cause _tsunamis_ as a side effect) and 90,000 tons.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Godzilla 14' is the largest of them all.  Prior to him, Heisei Godzilla held the record at 60,000 tons.  That's almost ten times the size of Slattern, the largest anything from Pacific Rim.  There isn't anything from Pacific Rim that Godzilla couldn't step on and break like a twig.
> 
> Even if every jaeger and kaju from Pacific Rim bum rushed Godzilla all at the same time, he'd flatten them all in under a minute.



Weight doesn't dictate strength, broseph. Otherwise, Godzilla'd beat Superman, too. 



Tom Servo said:


> Godzilla is smarter, more durable and has high speed regeneration  nobody in Pacific Rim is beating him.



When did this Godzilla display high-speed regen? I don't remember seeing that.

Or smarts, for that matter. How is Godzilla smarter than a bunch of highly-trained pilots being commanded by international military forces?


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Hell the historical context makes it clear Godzilla would have to survive _six_ Nuclear Weapons in 1954, 17 in 1956 and _37_ in 1958. The biggest yield he'd have to survive in the 1954 tests is _15 megatons_.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Then we can assume they were small tactical nukes since it took three of them to down a single Kaiju of probably lower than Category 4 standing. Two Cat 4s were wiped out by the 1.2Mt nuke.



Considering there is a 1000kt in a megaton, there is a lot of leeway. Assuming each Kaiju rank was double the durability of the last rank, tresspasser could take more then 70kt. We don't know the progression of the ranks, so its stupid to say they are small nukes when we have alot of room to work with. 



> That's the general idea, yes.
> 
> But he took more than three nukes, that is for damn certain. And he didn't die.



Yeah but he would have time to heal with all the radiation.




> Being far away from the blast doesn't mean Gipsy wasn't hit by the blast. Gipsy very clearly was hit by the blast--judging by that enormous volume of ocean all around it that simply vanished and then came crashing back.



He was hit by the blast, but he would have taken alot less energy the Slatten did.




> Inverse-square law doesn't mean that being farther away from the source equals not getting hit at all.



No but it does mean he got hit with a lot less energy, you can't say he took all 1.2mt, honestly if we were to calc it, it might be low kt.



> Even Slattern wasn't hit with all of it--that's not how it works. But yes, both were caught in the blast radius and both took the hit and withstood it--even if Gipsy wasn't hit as hard.




We only give people the full durability of the energy if they are in epicenter of the blast or close enough. Slatten was literally about to grab Eureka Striker and took the nuke head first, he gets the full durability.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

SSM12: That's assuming they were all successful hits, however...or that all of them were attempts to kill Godzilla and some of them weren't, in fact, actually _nuclear tests_. We simply don't know.

But yeah. The military had been nuking this thing repeatedly in order to kill it, and all attempts failed. That much is known.


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## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Weight doesn't dictate strength, broseph. Otherwise, Godzilla'd beat Superman, too.



Indeed.  Godzilla has beaten opponents that were more than twice his size in the past.

However, the simple fact that Godzilla 14' is able to move at all under his own power is considerably more of an achievement than anything from Pacific Rim has demonstrated.  (Well the one Kaiju flying while carrying Gypsy was hax, but what are you going to do?)


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Look at the yields Godzilla would have to tank for Operation Castle alone guys.

Bravo-6 Megatons
Union-3 to 4 Megatons
Yankee-8 Megatons
Echo-65-275 Kilotons
Nectar-1.8 Megatons
Romeo-4 Megatons
Koon-1 Megaton


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Considering there is a 1000kt in a megaton, there is a lot of leeway. Assuming each Kaiju rank was double the durability of the last rank, tresspasser could take more then 70kt. We don't know the progression of the ranks, so its stupid to say they are small nukes when we have alot of room to work with.



Category is based on water displacement and toxicity of Kaiju Blue--however, there does seem to be a correlation between these factors and a Kaiju's general strength (Slattern being the strongest and only Category 5). If a single-megaton nuke wiped out two Cat 4s and badly damaged a Cat 5 all at once, then it's safe to say the nukes that killed Trespasser probably had yields in the kilotons. Speculation, but within reason.



> Yeah but he would have time to heal with all the radiation.



This Godzilla wasn't shown or suggested to have any kind of special healing factor.



> He was hit by the blast, but he would have taken alot less energy the Slatten did.



I'm not disputing that.



> No but it does mean he got hit with a lot less energy, you can't say he took all 1.2mt, honestly if we were to calc it, it might be low kt.



Slattern wasn't hit with the full yield, either.



> We only give people the full durability of the energy if they are in epicenter of the blast or close enough. Slatten was literally about to grab Eureka Striker and took the nuke head first, he gets the full durability.



The only way Slattern could've taken the ENTIRE yield would have been if it literally wrapped its body around the bomb prior to detonation. That didn't happen, and most of the energy was released away from Slattern in all directions, displacing sea water and wiping out the other two Kaiju (along with Striker).

If the question is who got hit with a greater percentage of that yield, the answer is undeniably Slattern. But Gipsy did take a hit as well and that shouldn't be dismissed.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> The movie clearly said that all the Bikini Atol tests were to kill Godzilla, which didn't do anything to him. And it was in 1954 when it started, the nukes would be reaching megaton range.



Which is a good feat, thanks for brining it up.





> Didn't Slatten use the body of another Kaiju as a shield?



No, he was making a B-line straight for Striker Eureka and was only a few meters away when the nuke went off.





> Why? Godzilla towers above both Jaegers and Kaiju. 106 Meters tall (and with enough mass to cause _tsunamis_ as a side effect) and 90,000 tons.



What are you talking about, Most Kaiju are Godzilla size or bigger.

Tresspasser was 92m, 
Knifehead is 96m
Mutavore is 90m
Leatherback is 81m
Otachi was 63m,
Scunner is 134m
Slatten is 181m

Godzilla weights more, thats for certain, but I don't be tossing them as easily as the Jeagers.


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## Tacocat (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Look at the yields Godzilla would have to tank for Operation Castle alone guys.
> 
> Bravo-6 Megatons
> Union-3 to 4 Megatons
> ...



Wait, they said _all_ of the tests were for the purpose of trying to kill Godzilla? They just kept dropping nukes on him and he wasn't even fazed enough to relocate his tanning grounds


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Category is based on water displacement and toxicity of Kaiju blue--however, there does seem to be a correlation between these factors and a Kaiju's general strength (Slattern being the strongest and only Category 5). If a single-megaton nuke wiped out two Cat 4s and badly damaged a Cat 5 all at once, then it's safe to say the nukes that killed Trespasser probably had yields in the kilotons. Speculation, but within reason.



Thats what I am arguing, they sacrifices entire cities, I doubt they would use lower level nukes to kill it, especially if the first one and the second one failed.




> This Godzilla wasn't shown or suggested to have any kind of special healing factor.



No but he gets his energy that way.






> The only way Slattern could've taken the ENTIRE yield would have been if it literally wrapped its body around the bomb prior to detonation. That didn't happen, and most of the energy was released away from Slattern in all directions, displacing sea water and wiping out the other two Kaiju (along with Striker).
> 
> If the question is who got hit with a greater percentage of that yield, the answer is undeniably Slattern. But Gipsy did take a hit as well and that shouldn't be dismissed.



I don't think you understand, we normally ignore the inverse square law if the person hit was close enough to the epicenter, Slatten was close enough, but Gipsy Danger wasn't a fair distance away.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Cooly said:


> Wait, they said _all_ of the tests were for the purpose of trying to kill Godzilla? They just kept dropping nukes on him and he wasn't even fazed enough to relocate his tanning grounds


Exactly. Each test was to kill Godzilla. Hell he apparently enjoyed it since he never moved off from the Atoll apparently _until_ the MUTO's awakened.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Look at the yields Godzilla would have to tank for Operation Castle alone guys.
> 
> Bravo-6 Megatons
> Union-3 to 4 Megatons
> ...



I'm a little leery of just taking word-of-mouth from the movie as a blanket assumption that *any* nuclear test conducted in the Pacific can automatically translate to a durability feat for this Godzilla. That seems...I don't know. Careless? Not entirely honest? It just doesn't sit right with me.

We know that some nuclear tests conducted were actually efforts to kill Godzilla. But were all of them? If not, which ones were and which ones weren't?

Would like to have some clarification on this subject from an official source.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> I'm a little leery of just taking word-of-mouth from the movie as a blanket assumption that *any* nuclear test conducted in the Pacific can automatically translate to a durability feat for this Godzilla. That seems...I don't know. Careless? Not entirely honest? It just doesn't sit right with me.
> 
> We know that some nuclear tests conducted were actually efforts to kill Godzilla. But were all of them? If not, which ones were and which ones weren't?
> 
> Would like to have some clarification on this subject from an official source.


From the movie itself, the tests were used to cover up their attempts to kill Godzilla. Official Codename Operation Monster, press Codename is probably Operation Castle. And each attempt was explicitly said to be in Bikini Atoll, where we're showed in the movie where Godzilla is surfacing. All the attempts failed.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Actually the army general himself said the nukes intended to kill Godzilla were stated to be in the KT's, which is ambiguous and but the nuke they intended to use made all the ones used on Godzilla look like fire crackers.

So no, not all those tests were meant to kill Godzilla.


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Thats what I am arguing, they sacrifices entire cities, I doubt they would use lower level nukes to kill it, especially if the first one and the second one failed.



It would make sense of they wanted to minimize collateral damage and it would also explain why it took three of them to down what was presumably one of the weaker Kaiju. They didn't just decide "Well, a Kaiju landed in this city, time to wipe it off the map"; even in the novel and on Beacham's blog that the Wiki links to, it's stated that there were efforts to minimize the damage and civilian exposure to fallout of nuclear strikes.



> No but he gets his energy that way.



I get my energy from food, but hit me over the head with a big enough roast and I might need to go to the hospital. 

The Muto thrived on radiation, too. Didn't seem to help the female much when Godzilla force-fed her a dose of blue heat.

Even putting aside the radiation, there's the sheer force to consider.



> I don't think you understand, we normally ignore the inverse square law if the person hit was close enough to the epicenter, Slatten was close enough, but Gipsy Danger wasn't a fair distance away.



Gipsy was hit with a very substantial amount of force to be able to push away all the water surrounding it like that. It even took a few seconds before it all flooded back, too; wonder if anybody's calc'd that yet...


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## Nikushimi (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> From the movie itself, the tests were used to cover up their attempts to kill Godzilla. Official Codename Operation Monster, press Codename is probably Operation Castle. And each attempt was explicitly said to be in Bikini Atoll, where we're showed in the movie where Godzilla is surfacing. All the attempts failed.





Xiammes said:


> Actually the army general himself said the nukes intended to kill Godzilla were stated to be in the KT's, which is ambiguous and but the nuke they intended to use made all the ones used on Godzilla look like fire crackers.
> 
> So no, not all those tests were meant to kill Godzilla.



^That's my hang-up with this assumption as well.

I think it's best to stick with the general idea that kiloton-level nukes don't cut it and megaton-level nukes are a convincing "maybe."


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Actually the army general himself said the nukes intended to kill Godzilla were stated to be in the KT's, which is ambiguous and but the nuke they intended to use made all the ones used on Godzilla look like fire crackers.
> 
> So no, not all those tests were meant to kill Godzilla.


Maybe the general was mistaken. Still, Godzilla would have to be around Megaton+ nukes all that time. It matches up with the historical context we have in the real world after all.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

> It would make sense of they wanted to minimize collateral damage and it would also explain why it took three of them to down what was presumably one of the weaker Kaiju. They didn't just decide "Well, a Kaiju landed in this city, time to wipe it off the map"; even in the novel and on Beacham's blog that the Wiki links to, it's stated that there were efforts to minimize the damage and civilian exposure to fallout of nuclear strikes.



They waited nearly a week to nuke it, I honestly doubt they were going easy on it. Also assuming the Kaiju was still mobile after the first nuke, they would have to use a nuke on a different spot, thus increasing the spread of radiation. Its very likely they increased the yield with each nuke.




> Gipsy was hit with a very substantial amount of force to be able to push away all the water surrounding it like that. It even took a few seconds before it all flooded back, too; wonder if anybody's calc'd that yet...



It wouldn't be all that much, low kt at the most, which isn't worth calcing considering we know low level Kaiju have the same level of durability.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Maybe the general was mistaken. Still, Godzilla would have to be around Megaton+ nukes all that time. It matches up with the historical context we have in the real world after all.



I doubt he was mistaken, they were trying to contemplate how to get rid of Godzilla, a mistake like that wouldn't have happened. They wouldn't be convinced that they could kill Godzilla with a nuke if it wasn't significantly more powerful then the ones used before.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I doubt he was mistaken, they were trying to contemplate how to get rid of Godzilla, a mistake like that wouldn't have happened. They wouldn't be convinced that they could kill Godzilla with a nuke if it wasn't significantly more powerful then the ones used before.


I don't think they were 'convinced', it was their only shot. And even then, a passing glance at a Wiki Article shows the General is mistaken that only kiloton nukes were used on Bikini Atoll.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think they were 'convinced', it was their only shot. And even then, a passing glance at a Wiki Article shows the General is mistaken that only kiloton nukes were used on Bikini Atoll.



Considering he was a general and now in charge of killing the Muto's and Godzilla, he would have direct information on the nukes used against Godzilla.


Or are you going to assume they are a bunch of idiots and didn't do any fact checking and just said "lets nuke them".


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Considering he was a general and now in charge of killing the Muto's and Godzilla, he would have direct information on the nukes used against Godzilla.
> 
> 
> Or are you going to assume they are a bunch of idiots and didn't do any fact checking and just said "lets nuke them".


I don't think they had the opportunity to check. They were working on a timetable and were desperate. Both this and the real world match up. The only Kiloton nuke (between 65 and 275 kilotons) used on Bikini Atoll, btw, in 1954 is Echo.

Hell in 1956, they were testing Thermonuclear Bombs with the first Hydrogen Bomb, and in 1958 there were 8.9 Megaton explosions happening during the last tests on the Atoll.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> I don't think they had the opportunity to check. Both this and the real world match up. The only Kiloton nuke (between 65 and 275 kilotons) used on Bikini Atoll, btw, in 1954 is Echo.



Days had passed, they had plenty of time to check, just as you said a simple 5 minute search and you could find the yields. It wouldn't have taken him long to find out which nukes were specifically used on Godzilla.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Days had passed, they had plenty of time to check, just as you said a simple 5 minute search and you could find the yields. It wouldn't have taken him long to find out which nukes were specifically used on Godzilla.


With constant EMP's messing up searches? With constant battle readiness? I don't think he had enough opportunity to check. He was guessing, that's it. Again, both historical and the movie both show 1954 used, specifically which had multiple Megaton nukes being used.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Godzilla wasn't emitting EMP's and he spent a great deal of time tailing Godzilla and not the Muto's. Please its dumb to think he wouldn't be able to gain info on the nukes previously used on Godzilla, especially when he had to request using a nuke in the first place.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> Godzilla wasn't emitting EMP's and he spent a great deal of time tailing Godzilla and not the Muto's. Please its dumb to think he wouldn't be able to gain info on the nukes previously used on Godzilla, especially when he had to request using a nuke in the first place.


And anyone could tell him that a kiloton level nuke is wrong. Constant battle readiness kind of translates to lack of checking too. Godzilla was able to survive each test at Bikini Atoll, plain and simple.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And anyone could tell him that a kiloton level nuke is wrong. Constant battle readiness kind of translates to lack of checking too. Godzilla was able to survive each test at Bikini Atoll, plain and simple.



They had hours to days to plan on how they were going to kill all three of them, they knew nukes were used in the past, they knew they were only in the KT levels and they were using a nuke in the MT.

Please, there isn't enough evidence to say he survived each one.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> They had hours to days to plan on how they were going to kill all three of them, they knew nukes were used in the past, they knew they were only in the KT levels and they were using a nuke in the MT.
> 
> Please, their isn't enough evidence to say he survived each one.


Correction: They HOPED that the Megaton level nukes would be able to kill all three. Not a sure thing. And again, look up Bikini Atoll Atomic Tests, everything the movie said matches up what was said there.

And how isn't there? Godzilla was taken to Bikini Atoll for the sole purpose of being nuked.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

They hoped it would kill them due to it being significantly more powerful, other wise there wouldn't be any hope.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> They hoped it would kill them due to it being significantly more powerful, other wise there wouldn't be any hope.


Unless they were 25 megaton warheads, Godzilla was tanking 275 kt-8.9 megatons during his stay at Bikini Atoll.

Hell he could have been sent there during the Castle Bravo test, which was supposed to be a 6 megaton bomb...but turned out to be a 15 megaton bomb.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Unless they were 25 megaton warheads, Godzilla was tanking 275 kt-8.9 megatons during his stay at Bikini Atoll.



We are going around in circles, you argument entirely relies on the fact that the general wouldn't know what the hell is talking about. History has no relevance to a series with a obviously alternative time line. If the line about Godzilla only being hit with kt nukes weren't in the movie then it would confirm it.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> We are going around in circles, you argument entirely relies on the fact that the general wouldn't know what the hell is talking about. History has no relevance to a series with a obviously alternative time line. If the line about Godzilla only being hit with kt nukes weren't in the movie then it would confirm it.


But then we see in 1954 each test and one having a 15 megaton yield. Having the general be mistaken for the last ditch plan is highly likely, Xiammes.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

You are forgetting the fact he would have to request to use a nuke, he would have been notified it didn't work before, so he would have asked for one of significantly higher yield in hopes it would kill. This dumb notion you have that he was mistaken when made the plan isn't going to cut it.

We have a alternative universe and a guy who would clearly have access to inside information that we as the viewers wouldn't.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> You are forgetting the fact he would have to request to use a nuke, he would have been it didn't work before, so he would have asked for one of significantly higher yield. This dumb notion you have that he was mistaken when made the plan isn't going to cut it.


How is it a dumb notion when it matches up?


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> How is it a dumb notion when it matches up?



It doesn't match up, the only thing suggesting it does is the actual tests themselves, which we have no info of which nukes were actually used on Godzilla. The only information we have is that they were in the kt, which you seem to deny despite the fact kt were used in the testing areas. 

Nothing but your desire says godzilla was hit with the mt nukes.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> It doesn't match up, the only thing suggesting it does is the actual tests themselves, which we have no info of which nukes were actually used on Godzilla. The only information we have is that they were in the kt, which you seem to deny despite the fact kt were used in the testing areas.
> 
> Nothing but your desire says godzilla was hit with the mt nukes.


A throwaway comment from a single general invalidates everything? The movie built up that this Godzillaverse was the same as OURS.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> A throwaway comment from a single general invalidates everything? The movie built up that this Godzillaverse was the same as OURS.



What part of it is throwaway? They were clearly trying to state why they hoped the nukes would work. If Godzilla was hit consistently with those mt nukes, why would they hope just 1 nuke would not only kill Godzilla but both Muto's?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 17, 2014)

this is one of the most retarded arguments I've ever read


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> What part of it is throwaway? They were clearly trying to state why they hoped the nukes would work. If Godzilla was hit consistently with those mt nukes, why would they hope just 1 nuke would not only kill Godzilla but both Muto's.


Since it was a last resort. Nuclear options are always a last resort, Xiammes. They had no other options, everything else they tried were failing. They were hoping beyond hope that megaton weapons would work.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Since it was a last resort. Nuclear options are always a last resort, Xiammes. They had no other options, everything else they tried were failing. They were hoping beyond hope that megaton weapons would work.



>hoping beyond hope

They would have used more, or just use ICBM's on them if it failed. This was a plan trying to minimize as much damage as possible, they weren't doing this as a last resort.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> >hoping beyond hope
> 
> They would have used more, or just use ICBM's on them if it failed. This was a plan trying to minimize as much damage as possible, they weren't doing this as a last resort.


How wasn't it their last result? Godzilla already showed immunity to nuclear weapons. Both MUTO's emitted EMP's that rendered the US Military useless and powerless against them. It was a last resort.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

If it was a last resort, more then one nuke would have been used, and they wouldn't have been worried about minimizing casualties, the entire plan was set up in the hopes they could end it with minimum casualties.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> If it was a last resort, more then one nuke would have been used, and they wouldn't have been worried about minimizing casualties, the entire plan was set up in the hopes they could end it with minimum casualties.


The were gonna use TWO nukes. Specifically chosen so they could be armed with manual, clockwork timers since the electronic ones would have been fried by the MUTO's EMP.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

I don't remember 2 nukes, but I could be mistaken, still this still doesn't classify as a last resort. We could still makes air drops, as seen in the movie.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> I don't remember 2 nukes, but I could be mistaken, still this still doesn't classify as a last resort. We could still makes air drops, as seen in the movie.


The first nuke was taken by the female MUTO and eaten on the spot after ambushing the train while the second one managed to get to San Francisco and was taken after being armed by the male MUTO for a gift for his mate.

And air drops...against creatures immune to gunfire. Yeah, they were used as guides but thats it.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

My memory's a bit fuzzy on that part, I assumed Muto just damaged it and it fell into the water.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Xiammes said:


> My memory's a bit fuzzy on that part, I assumed Muto just damaged it and it fell into the water.


Nope, the female MUTO swallowed it. I remember distinctly. It didn't touch the second one since it got pissed off and knocked the train containing the second one into the river which was washed away.


----------



## Rivers (May 17, 2014)

Can I read this thread without being too spoiled for the Godzilla movie?

Or should I wait till I see it...


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Someone might have to confirm that, I honestly can't remember. 

I think we could settle this debate by asking one of the writers on Twitter, we solved that GoW problem that way.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

Two nukes on the train.


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Then I am mistaken again, its still doesn't change our previous argument much.

It would be best to ask a writer or something, otherwise I don't feel like going in circles with you.


----------



## Rivers (May 17, 2014)

Who stands taller Godzilla or Slanttern? 

Are they about similar size?


----------



## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

Godzilla is about 105m tall, Slatten is 186m tall.


----------



## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Who stands taller Godzilla or Slanttern?
> 
> Are they about similar size?



Godzilla is about 10 times Slanttern's size.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (May 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Godzilla is about 10 times Slanttern's size.



is this thread not about the movie godzilla that just came out?

Pretty sure that godzilla is not ten timers bigger then slanttern.


----------



## KaiserWombat (May 17, 2014)

Fucking yikes

Dat awful statement vs statement argument

I actually need to rewatch the intro to Godzilla (2014) again some time: too busy being HYPED AS FUCK to take proper attention to the exact bomb test footage...

I did recognise  in there (even though that was in 1946, not 1954), and the payload of those thermonuclear bombs were "merely" 21 kilotons of TNT equivalent.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 17, 2014)

KaiserWombat said:


> Fucking yikes
> 
> Dat awful statement vs statement argument
> 
> ...


I went over things again, and Godzilla himself would have to survive a total of 42.8 Megatons in 1954. And that's not knowing what 'tests' the Russians subjected him to: for all we know they could have lured him to the area where the Tsar Bomba was set off in an attempt to kill him.

And most of the footage taken seems to be from the Castle Bravo test, which is a mythology shout out to the original Godzilla. Castle Bravo had a yield of 15 Megatons.


----------



## LazyWaka (May 17, 2014)

I thought this Godzilla was suppose to be 150m tall.


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## Xiammes (May 17, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> I thought this Godzilla was suppose to be 150m tall.



Nope, that's his lengths if you count his tail, but he is only 105m tall when standing up.


----------



## Qinglong (May 17, 2014)

[5:51:59 PM] Fang: Also the guy who thinks the nuke would kill him
[5:52:01 PM] Fang: is the Captain
[5:52:01 PM] Roman5ive5ive: iirc, didn't the PR people actually class Godzilla like one of their own Kaiju or somethin
[5:52:02 PM] Saint Saga: Good point.
[5:52:02 PM] Fang: not the Admiral
[5:52:15 PM] Benjamin Homer: If they wanted to kill Zilla, why did they use nukes? Hes a giant iguana
[5:52:26 PM] Fang: and he thinks becames its in the double digit megaton range
[5:52:28 PM] Fang: and he literally says that
[5:52:29 PM] Benjamin Homer: Just use a couple of tank trucks full of mustard gas
[5:52:30 PM] Saint Saga: Jap scientist knew it'd do shit.
[5:52:34 PM] Es: ban pls
[5:52:37 PM] Fang: Serizawa says it wouldn't do shit
[5:52:40 PM] Fang: and Mutos
[5:52:40 PM] Saint Saga: Yup.
[5:52:41 PM] Fang: eat fucking nukes
[5:52:53 PM] Saint Saga: Godzilla fought 2 of them.
[5:52:59 PM] Fang: yes
[5:53:02 PM] Saint Saga: So yeah.



[5:54:06 PM] Fang: can someone just post in that thread
[5:54:15 PM] Fang: and point out the guy claiming the megaton yield nuke would kill Godzilla
[5:54:20 PM] Fang: was the Admiral's aide, the Captain
[5:54: 33 PM] Fang: who clearly doesn't know what he was saying and the 50s testing of nukes at bikini
[5:54:40 PM] Fang: prove Godzilla doesn't give a shit about megaton yield weaponary


----------



## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> is this thread not about the movie godzilla that just came out?
> 
> Pretty sure that godzilla is not ten timers bigger then slanttern.



Size alludes to mass more than it does volume.  PR mecha and monsters are all pretty tall, but they're mostly hollow and light weight.  Even the heaviest of them are not even a tenth the size of Godzilla.  Why this is relevant is because even if the PR fighters appear to be moving faster than Godzilla and the Mutos, they aren't hauling around nearly as much ass.  Simply by moving around does Godzilla show a greater feat of strength then the competition.


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## Wesley (May 17, 2014)

Btw, to give an idea of how strong Mr. Muto was he dragged a Typhoon class submarine hundreds of miles, probably by air.  A typhoon class submarine displaces 20,000 tons when floating on the surface.  That's more than 10 times the weight of Gypsy.  A much greater load and distance than Otachi managed.


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## Tom Servo (May 17, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Btw, to give an idea of how strong Mr. Muto was he dragged a Typhoon class submarine hundreds of miles, probably by air.  A typhoon class submarine displaces 20,000 tons when floating on the surface.  That's more than 10 times the weight of Gypsy.  A much greater load and distance than Otachi managed.



I also believe he ruptured a dozen cranes holding him down with restraining wires casually with just one of his claws.


----------



## Matta Clatta (May 18, 2014)

Just watched the beginning of godzilla 2014 they said zilla went dorment in 1954 so I believe he would have been subjected to any number of nuclear tests up to that point. 
Still you never know if a high yield double digit nuke like the one that was propped up in the film couldn't have killed all 3 of the monsters


----------



## Inuhanyou (May 18, 2014)

Godzilla would have essentially made all the kaiju one on one his bitch


----------



## Joakim3 (May 18, 2014)

I'll be honest the only ones that have any hope of winning are Gipsy Danger and Crimson Typhoon as they have cutting weapons.... Godzilla is simply to massive for any of them to fight conventionally head on. One tail slap is snapping any joint and or bones of either Jeager or Kajiu 



Nikushimi said:


> 1. Knifehead



Gets thrown around like a toy and beaten to death



Nikushimi said:


> 2. Leatherback



Gets thrown around like a toy and beaten to death 



Nikushimi said:


> 3. Otachi



Unlike the male Muto which actively tried to escape Godzilla via flight, IC Otochi would stupidly attempt to engage in CqC..... She gets ripped in two peaces 



Nikushimi said:


> 4. Crimson Typhoon & Cherno Alpha



Really depends on Godzilla's mindset. If he's pissed... they get Atomic Rayed into oblivion. If he's IC he'll get a dose of buzz saw... get angry and then Atomic Ray there ass into oblivion. Neither Jeager is physically big enough to challenge him



Nikushimi said:


> 5. Striker Eureka & Gipsy Danger (no sword, no self-destruct



No sword or self destruction?......... they get bulldozed down and or Atomic Rayed



Nikushimi said:


> 6. Slattern



Gets thrown around like a toy and gets the female Muto treatment 



Nikushimi said:


> 7. Gipsy Danger



If the sword is allowed I could potentially see Gipsy Danger pulling a win due to human pilots being more intelligent than Godzilla.... granted it's either sword or death for team Jeager. They aren't tanking an Atomic Ray from a full fresh non exhausted Godzilla



Nikushimi said:


> 8. Leatherback & Otachi



Goes down just like the Muto fight. Death via Atomic fire 



Nikushimi said:


> 9. Gipsy & Striker with the 1.2Mt nuke



Godzilla was eating nukes back in 54' (some of which where multi-megaton), I'd say there best bet having Striker distract Godzilla long enough for Gipsy to get some debilitating sword hits in... but then again theres alway the Atomic Ray to even things out


----------



## Joakim3 (May 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Btw, to give an idea of how strong Mr. Muto was he dragged a Typhoon class submarine hundreds of miles, probably by air.  A typhoon class submarine displaces 20,000 tons when floating on the surface.  That's more than 10 times the weight of Gypsy.  A much greater load and distance than Otachi managed.



It was an Akula submarine.... those are ~8500 tons out of water, and judging from the fact how hard it is get airborne from the water (while carrying something the size of a 320ft nuclear sub) I'd seriously doubt it was flown

Being "towed" underwater crocodile stile and then dragged up into the jungle seems honestly more likely (especially as there was a river near by)


----------



## Wesley (May 18, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> It was an Akula submarine.... those are ~8500 tons out of water, and judging from the fact how hard it is get airborne from the water (while carrying something the size of a 320ft nuclear sub) I'd seriously doubt it was flown
> 
> Being "towed" underwater crocodile stile and then dragged up into the jungle seems honestly more likely (especially as there was a river near by)



That was confusing, since Nato calls Akulas Typhoons and Shchukas Akulas.  Would have to watch the film again to really know for sure which sub it was and draw comparisons of size and such.


----------



## Joakim3 (May 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> That was confusing, since Nato calls Akulas Typhoons and Shchukas Akulas.  Would have to watch the film again to really know for sure which sub it was and draw comparisons of size and such.



If I recall it was one propellor.... they Tyhpoons have 2 sets, while the Akula attack subs have 1

If it was a Typhoon (the nuclear ballistic one) It would have TOWERED over Godzilla let alone the male M.U.T.O if it was propped up like it was in the movie. Those subs are 560+ ft long

Regardless physically dragging a 10,000+ ton sub several miles inland after hauling it god knows how far underwater is a utterly ridiculous feat (considering how small the male was compared to Godzilla and the Female)


----------



## Wesley (May 18, 2014)

Joakim3 said:


> If I recall it was one propellor.... they Tyhpoons have 2 sets, while the Akula attack subs have 1
> 
> If it was a Typhoon (the nuclear ballistic one) It would have TOWERED over Godzilla let alone the male M.U.T.O if it was propped up like it was in the movie. Those subs are 560+ ft long
> 
> Regardless physically dragging a 10,000+ ton sub several miles inland after hauling it god knows how far underwater is a utterly ridiculous feat (considering how small the male was compared to Godzilla and the Female)



Was the sub obviously dragged up to the hill or perched there?  They were in the middle of a forest right?  Would have left a trail.


----------



## Joakim3 (May 18, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Was the sub obviously dragged up to the hill or perched there?  They were in the middle of a forest right?  Would have left a trail.



There was river next to where the sub was rested if I recall

I'd imagine if the sub was flown there the second the M.U.T.O. Decided to land it wouldn't have gracefully placed the sub down but simply dropped that shit and the sub would have been bent and broken from impact

10,000+ tons is still a LOT of weight for something of the Male M.U.T.O. to be flying


----------



## Nikushimi (May 18, 2014)

Do we have anything resembling a consensus yet, regarding these actual match-ups?


----------



## Wesley (May 18, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Do we have anything resembling a consensus yet, regarding these actual match-ups?



PR tackle Godzilla to the ground.  He rolls over and squashes them.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 19, 2014)

there is no consensus because people are stupid.

1. Clears most likely, though haven't seen the movie yet so dunno, on the other hand we didn't get to see knifehead do much.

2. Not sure here, probably leaning towards Godzilla still.

3. Otachi got dem wings, so it could fly around and spit acid, but that's probably gonan be ineffective so Godzilla here as well.

4. neither of them were impressive at all but they both have hype and 2v1 is always nice.

5. This is where things get tough for zilla, Striker and Gypsy are both incredibly powerful jaegers, much more so than Cherno or Crimson proved themselves to be. Gonna go with PR here.

6. Slattern is bigger and essentially took a 1.2 megaton nuke straight to the face which is more than you can say for a) godzilla's durability and b) its DC, Slattern should take this decisively.

7. This would depend on how manoeuvrable Godzilla is now, basically if Godzilla is agile enough it should be fine, if not Gypsy cuts it to bits.

8. godzilla takes this again.

9. this is like scenario 5 only worse.


----------



## Rivers (May 19, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> *The Opponents:*
> 
> 1. Knifehead
> 2. Leatherback
> ...



Watching it tomorrow so cant discuss on the Godzilla side yet, though if this list is based on difficulty it would be:

5. Gipsy Danger
6. Leatherback & Otachi
7. Striker Eureka & Gipsy Danger (no sword, no self-destruct)
8. Slattern
9. Gipsy & Striker with the 1.2Mt nuke

Slanttern would be toughest single opponent Godzilla has to face only to be surpassed by the Jaeger duo going all out, and capable of blowing themselves up if need be.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Slanttern would be toughest single opponent Godzilla has to face only to be surpassed by the Jaeger duo going all out, and capable of blowing themselves up if need be.


Godzilla tanked multiple megaton nukes, is 90,000 tons (to Slattern's 6,750 tons) and is general presented as nearly indestructible and god-like.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 19, 2014)

and where was godzilla in relation to the nuclear detonation?


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 19, 2014)

This thread being made does not surprise me?Anyway it's been established that Kaiju can survive kilotons worth of nukes, we have no idea how the megaton nuke would have done like the ones they were going to use but a level 5 Kaiju can survive those albeit weakened IIRC so atleast the level 5 Kaiju may stop Godzilla.

Godzilla is 250+ million years old, he's the last of his kind(whatever species he is) and one of the few survivors of that time period.


----------



## RandomLurker (May 19, 2014)

The footage they used in the beginning of the movie with a nuclear test trying to kill Godzilla was from the  test, which was an H-bomb with 15 Mt yield, the largest nuclear detonation by the United States and one of the largest in the world. Other 10+ Mt H-bombs were also detonated as a part of the Castle experiment series. So yes, there were several multi-megaton nukes detonated by USA in the Pacific area, which were stated by the movie to be attempts at killing Godzilla. Assuming the Big G survived all that, he's pretty damn durable.


----------



## War With Words (May 19, 2014)

Godzilla stomps. He's far too heavy and strong to lose and has tanked far more than anything from PR. 15 Megaton nuke>>>1.2 Megaton nuke. 

I don't see most of them beating the MUTOs tbh.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 19, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> there is no consensus because people are stupid.
> 
> 1. Clears most likely, though haven't seen the movie yet so dunno,



If you haven't seen the new Godzilla movie, then how are you judging these matches? 



Rivers said:


> Watching it tomorrow so cant discuss on the Godzilla side yet, though if this list is based on difficulty it would be:
> 
> 5. Gipsy Danger
> 6. Leatherback & Otachi
> ...



I tried to organize the list according to a progression of difficulty for Godzilla. Obviously there's going to be some disagreement about that...but just go with the order I provided, regardless. It doesn't matter.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 19, 2014)

> Assuming the Big G survived all that, he's pretty damn durable



They said those were kiloton nukes hence why they were going to try megaton nukes on the Kaiju. They make the characters mention how a nuke killing the Kaiju won't work due to the previous failed attempts but the general points out they were kiloton nukes and their modern nukes shit over those hence why there was some possibilty of it working.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> and where was godzilla in relation to the nuclear detonation?


Ground zero. Directly in the lagoon where Castle Bravo was set off.



Tranquil Fury said:


> They said those were kiloton nukes hence why they were going to try megaton nukes on the Kaiju. They make the characters mention how a nuke killing the Kaiju won't work due to the previous failed attempts but the general points out they were kiloton nukes and their modern nukes shit over those hence why there was some possibilty of it working.


Then why show footage of Castle Bravo for the opening scroll? If it was 1946 with Operation Crossroads, that'd make sense. But they specified it Castle Bravo in 1954 with a multi-megaton range Hydrogen Bomb. Even though it was said to be 'kilotons' it was clearly shown Godzilla was at ground zero of Castle Bravo in the footage, which was 15 megatons.

And Dr. Serisawa thought 'all you're gonna do is destroy our own people. Only Godzilla can defeat the MUTO's'.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 19, 2014)

No, he very clearly brings up why dropping a nuke would work if it did'nt before and the Admiral and co say it's a megaton nuke that craps over the kiloton nukes they used, so unless you're implying they don't know the power of the nukes that were used on Godzilla despite having that classified info, it's what is stated in universe. 

You are right that later tests would get yields in Mt during 50s or so but they seem to be refering to the Trinity tests which were in kilotons that were in 40s. You are right but the military says they only used kilotons hence why they decided to use megatons, either an error by the director or that is basically the yield they used on Godzilla only.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> No, he very clearly brings up why dropping a nuke would work if it did'nt before and the Admiral and co say it's a megaton nuke that craps over the kiloton nukes they used, so unless you're implying they don't know the power of the nukes that were used on Godzilla despite having that classified info, it's what is stated in universe.
> 
> You are right that later tests would get yields in Mt during 50s or so but they seem to be refering to the Trinity tests which were in kilotons that were in 40s. You are right but the military says they only used kilotons hence why they decided to use megatons, either an error by the director or that is basically the yield they used on Godzilla only.


That could be an error the _writers made_. Godzilla was lured to Bikini Atoll in 1954: exactly the time of the tests there. All of which but _one_ (Echo) were in the Megaton range, and the opening scroll showed Castle Bravo, the 15 megaton hydrogen bomb: the most powerful weapon the US Military had in the 50's. 

If it was 1946 and Godzilla was lured to operation Crossroads, a 21 Kiloton bomb, yeah. But they used footage of Bikini Atoll tests in 1954. And not only that Godzilla was lured to multiple test sites too in the 1950's and we don't know what the Russians, who were also said to be trying to kill Godzilla, used on him.

Has anyone read _Godzilla: The Awakening_ yet? Its the prequel comic to the movie, it might end the debate.


----------



## Gallavant (May 19, 2014)

It was actually once stated, by one of the non-Japanese characters very early in the Heisei series (I believe it was the first Heisei movie in 1984 that rebooted the franchise), that they thought a nuke could kill Godzilla.
That same Godzilla eventually got strong enough to fight planetary threat monsters. Just saying..


----------



## Nikushimi (May 19, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> It was actually once stated, by one of the non-Japanese characters very early in the Heisei series (I believe it was the first Heisei movie in 1984 that rebooted the franchise), that they thought a nuke could kill Godzilla.
> 
> That same Godzilla eventually got strong enough to fight planetary threat monsters.. Just saying..



This isn't that Godzilla, though...


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> This isn't that Godzilla, though...


But this Godzilla has feats of surviving multiple nukes.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 19, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> But this Godzilla has feats of surviving multiple nukes.



Correction: This Godzilla has *one* feat of surviving *one* nuke, supposedly in the kiloton range, interspersed with stock footage of nuclear weapons suggestive of megaton-level yield, complemented later by the *hype/statement* that all (i.e., multiple) attempts to kill Godzilla with kiloton-yield nuclear weapons had failed--with the acknowledgement that a nuclear weapon of _unspecified megaton yield far exceeding anything used previously_ might work.

These are pretty much the relevant objective facts that can be gathered from the movie, in a nutshell.

While the possibility of Godzilla having survived megaton-level nukes is not excluded, we still don't know even the approximate yield of that nuke in the end of the movie. We got to see the mushroom cloud but I don't know if there's any way to calc it based on that alone...


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2014)

Godzilla tanked the meteor that caused the Permian Extinction in the canon prequel comic.
Megatons lol.


----------



## Gallavant (May 19, 2014)




----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 










"megatons"
top fucking lel


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Whelp, that settles that!


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2014)

Just eyeballing
Somewhere around continent level I think


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 19, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> If you haven't seen the new Godzilla movie, then how are you judging these matches?



based on what people have said or not said


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 19, 2014)

fucking legit 

proof the comic is canon though?


----------



## Nikushimi (May 19, 2014)

Louis Cyphre said:


> Just eyeballing
> Somewhere around continent level I think



"" is right.

Good God...



Nightbringer said:


> fucking legit
> 
> proof the comic is canon though?



It's an official comic and it's marketed as a prequel to the film. Not sure how much more "canon" you can get...


----------



## Gallavant (May 19, 2014)

petatons?


----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> fucking legit
> 
> proof the comic is canon though?



It was published by Legendary and also co-written by Max Borenstein (screenwriter of the movie)


----------



## Gallavant (May 19, 2014)




----------



## Louis Cyphre (May 19, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> maybe           .



Calc it, Darthg


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 19, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> petatons?



no that's an example of what he was talking about with orders of magnitude, not related to the energy released in any potential permian impact.



probably better to go with this for now.


----------



## Matta Clatta (May 19, 2014)

see its stuff like that, that makes the comic seem like an outlier in general. Neither of the mutos are that strong yet they are able to kick godzilla's ass easy enough together.
If we are going by the movie then godzilla got super weak in the years leading up to the movie for some reason.

double digit Megatons seem like a reasonable cap for current movie godzilla


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 19, 2014)

Matta Clatta said:


> double digit Megatons seem like a reasonable cap for current movie godzilla


Exactly what I was claiming.


----------



## Scratchy (May 19, 2014)

Matta Clatta said:


> If we are going by the movie then godzilla got super weak in the years leading up to the movie for some reason.



godzilla IS old as fuck. it's not unreasonable to think he's way out of his prime


----------



## Tom Servo (May 19, 2014)

So basically Legendary Godzilla is one huge tank. Now if only his AR was somehow above building+ level we could actually go somewhere.

Also look forward to Death Battle fucking up Godzilla's stats


----------



## Gallavant (May 19, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> probably better to go with this for now.



I see.. but

Permian extinction event > Cretaceous extinction event tho



"It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct. It is the only known mass extinction of insects. Some 57% of all families and 83% of all genera became extinct. Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of life on Earth took significantly longer than after any other extinction event,[5] possibly up to 10 million years."

There's a couple possible impact areas listed there if it was the direct result of a meteor impact (Like in the Godzilla comic), 250 km and up to 480 km for the other one


----------



## Wesley (May 19, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> So basically Legendary Godzilla is one huge tank. Now if only his AR was somehow above building+ level we could actually go somewhere.
> 
> Also look forward to Death Battle fucking up Godzilla's stats



He didn't use his atomic breath on any buildings.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 19, 2014)

Wesley said:


> He didn't use his atomic breath on any buildings.



You don't have to destroy a building to have building level DC...


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

So as per the graphic novel, Godzilla being 250 million years is theorised like in the movie. Here he hunts a monster called Shinomura aka swarm of death which is basically an entity made up of sentient cells, think ant colony merged into one organism but each ant is still an entity. These cells can reproduce and multiply via radiation. They wonder why such a creature has not conquered the world, the answer being Godzilla who usually chased off the creature and hunts it(they were natural enemies back in the day, the Godzilla species was the apex predator who hunted other MUTOs).

Godzilla survived the Premian impact(not explained how as all we get is theories followed by artistical visual aid that is'nt an actual flash back), as would most Kaiju who are still around past that. But the environment's radiation diminished so they either burrowed closer to the radioactive core of our planet or swam deep beneath the ocean near thermal vents. Nuclear energy by mankind is what awakened them, Shinomura left unchecked could bloat out the skies if it grew too big and even Godzilla himself would not be a match for it.

Anyway a sample in the lab they burnt survives despite that and replicates to a giant organism itself then merges with the current Shinomura to become even bigger(Godzilla size or bigger). 

Godzilla and the Shinomura fight, entity is damaged but splits into two separate ones.  Godzilla kills one with his atomic breath. Later on sometime in the 1950s, they decide to drop a A bomb on Bikini Atoll(this is consistent with the movie establishing that the nuclear tests in the 50s were an attempt to destroy him though the movie is wrong in that the tests did not awaken him as he was already awake but Hiroshima awoke a Shinomura), Serizawa states "nothing in our power ever could have destroyed him". The nuke is shown killing off the Shinomura that tried to outrun it, since Godzilla appears in the movie, we know he survived that being dropped right on top of him.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 20, 2014)

And said A Bomb is Castle Bravo, the 15 Megaton bomb like I said Tranquil Fury.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 20, 2014)

Matta Clatta said:


> see its stuff like that, that makes the comic seem like an outlier in general. Neither of the mutos are that strong yet they are able to kick godzilla's ass easy enough together.
> If we are going by the movie then godzilla got super weak in the years leading up to the movie for some reason.
> 
> double digit Megatons seem like a reasonable cap for current movie godzilla



I agree with this.

Canon or not, surviving the impact of an extraterrestrial body that caused the Permian Extinction is an absurd outlier that isn't corroborated by anything in the actual film.

It might've just been an artistic rendering without necessarily being an accurate depiction of what happened, but damn... That's like some Star Wars EU-level shit right there. 

The comic does seem to confirm, however, that Castle Bravo was an attempt to kill Godzilla...and it evidently failed.


----------



## Rivers (May 20, 2014)

So do we say in the Godzilla 2014 verse, that that they used Castle Bravo (as from comic) on Godzilla which it survived which used kiloton nukes (as from movie) or do we claim error from one of the sources...? And maintain Castle Bravo had megaton nukes because you know...it's what they used in real life?


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## Xiammes (May 20, 2014)

Didn't back then the Earth had much more radiation? It seems the monsters get their power from the radiation, so it wouldn't be far fetched to say Godzilla is much weaker due to the lack of radiation on the Earth surface.


----------



## KaiserWombat (May 20, 2014)

The assistant to Dr. Serizawa (can't recall her name off the top of my head) says that there was indeed a much greater quantity of radiation in the atmosphere in the prehistoric era of their Earth, yes.

It's the primary theory proposed in-verse as to why Godzilla and the MUTOs are the hideously powerful _daikaiju_ that they are in the first place.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 20, 2014)

That wouldn't make Godzilla's body less durable, though.



Rivers said:


> So do we say in the Godzilla 2014 verse, that that they used Castle Bravo (as from comic) on Godzilla which it survived which used kiloton nukes (as from movie) or do we claim error from one of the sources...? And maintain Castle Bravo had megaton nukes because you know...it's what they used in real life?



Castle Bravo is Castle Bravo (15Mt) and Godzilla survived it (along with all the other kiloton and presumably megaton-yield nukes). There.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 20, 2014)

When did Godzilla tank Castle Bravo?

Was this actually confirmed or are we just going off of what the stock footage of the film showed us?


----------



## Rivers (May 20, 2014)

Nikushimi said:


> Castle Bravo is Castle Bravo (15Mt) and Godzilla survived it (along with all the other kiloton and presumably megaton-yield nukes). There.



So then an error on the military personnel then? The one who explicitly stated that Godzilla survived kiloton blasts but that the megaton (or unknown yield) they plan using...would have a greater chance then before. Right?


----------



## Gallavant (May 20, 2014)

Rivers said:


> So do we say in the Godzilla 2014 verse, that that they used Castle Bravo (as from comic) on Godzilla which it survived which used kiloton nukes (as from movie) or do we claim error from one of the sources...? And maintain Castle Bravo had megaton nukes because you know...it's what they used in real life?




Castle Bravo is the name of a single specific 15 megaton hydrogen bomb test, not a series of nukes. 

The series of nuke tests that Bravo is apart of is Operation Castle.



> Was this actually confirmed or are we just going off of what the stock footage of the film showed us?



Its confirmed in the prequel comic which should be canon since its by Legendary and Max Borenstein co-wrote it.


----------



## Wesley (May 20, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> You don't have to destroy a building to have building level DC...



Point is we don't know how powerful his atomic breath is.  He only used it on the Muto at point blank range.


----------



## Rivers (May 20, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Castle Bravo is the name of a single specific 15 megaton hydrogen bomb test, not a series of nukes.
> 
> The series of nuke tests that Bravo is apart of is Operation Castle.



Okay. But Movie Godzilla can be hurt by a lot less then? Since physical strikes from the MUTOs where exhausting him...


----------



## Gallavant (May 20, 2014)

Posting the scans again:



It's specifically stated that it's the 15 MT Castle Bravo nuke that they're testing out on him:




[YOUTUBE]_sCg7zgkuA4[/YOUTUBE]

“*Co-written by Max Borenstein (who penned the feature film reboot*), Godzilla: Awakening presents a prequel storyline, set nearly half a century before Edwards' film, when humanity had its first encounter with Godzilla."





Rivers said:


> Okay. But Movie Godzilla can be hurt by a lot less then? Since physical strikes from the MUTOs where exhausting him...



Is it possible for them to be glass cannon? He was fighting a MUTO in the prequel as well btw


----------



## Rivers (May 20, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> Is it possible for them to be glass cannon? He was fighting MUTOs in the prequel as well btw



So you're saying the MUTOs were hitting Godzilla much harder then they could actually receive themselves?


----------



## Es (May 20, 2014)

Wesley said:


> Point is we don't know how powerful his atomic breath is.  He only used it on the Muto at point blank range.



He used it twice you dipshit


It knocked one MUTO on it's ass on the first hit

The second blast killed the other one and ripped it's head off


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> When did Godzilla tank Castle Bravo?
> 
> Was this actually confirmed or are we just going off of what the stock footage of the film showed us?



It's shown in the prequel comic, the explosion kills off the Muto called Shinomura with Godzilla not shown after the detonation but since he's around in the movie and the movie confirms he's survived repeated attempts of nuking, he clearly did survive. In 1984 Serizawa(the father of the Serizawa in the film) explains to his son about his encounters with Mutos since Hiroshima(he's the protagonist of the novel and was there for those events), he when discussing the nuking in 1954 or so says "nothing in our power can kill him" or something like that and that his son should be ready for Godzilla and the Mutos(others that may exist) return.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

Incase anyone doubts the comic being canon




> ComicBook.com: What’s the challenge of filling in these gaps without giving a way too much of the movie’s premise?
> 
> Borenstein: The interesting challenge of doing this has been to tell a story that feels coherent and whole in and of itself and that dovetails with the film we’re telling but that is something stnad-alone that you don’t need the film to appreciate and that you don’t need to have read to appreciate the film.
> 
> ...



Someone can post scans of the Permian impact scene(plus the explaination of how the Kaiju adapted to their new environment) and Bikini Atoll nuke scene for others to judge


----------



## Gallavant (May 20, 2014)

Tranquil Fury said:


> Incase anyone doubts the comic being canon
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The impact scans were posted earlier in the thread (though they were really giant images)



Also here's some other scans from different parts of the comic about the Shinomura MUTO (I know this isn't what you asked me to post)


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

No not those scans explaining the Shinomura, the Bikini Atoll nuke scene.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

*Spoiler*: __ 










Those ones. Going to sleep soon, not sure if they'll still be there so someone could post a back up.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 20, 2014)

What I learned from this thread is that 

1. Godzilla's durability is in the petatons range, double digit megatons at the very least

2. Even the small Male Muto is much physically stronger than Slattern.


----------



## Gallavant (May 20, 2014)

This is like the third time I've posted these in this thread:



EDIT: Forgot to include this though:


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## Tranquil Fury (May 20, 2014)

Oh you posted them before.

Anyway for some odd reason the movie claimed those were in Kilotons so either an error/did not do research or that was what was used in that verse.

Durability: Kilotons to double digits Megatons range

His atomic breath depends on how strong the female Muto's armor was, they've never tanked a nuke(the movie was the first time they encountered that species of Muto) but atleast more durable than Shinomura who could die from his atomic breath(who in turn died from the nuke in Bikini Atoll).


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## Nikushimi (May 20, 2014)

Going by the prequel comic, I think it's safe to say Godzilla survived Castle Bravo (15Mt).

However, we have no idea what condition he was in afterward.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 20, 2014)

So is tanking the meteor feat legit?

continent level+ Godzilla? Anyone?


----------



## Nikushimi (May 20, 2014)

I don't think the impact feat is legit...

Godzilla would've laughed at those shitty MUTO if he had continent-level durability.


----------



## NightmareCinema (May 20, 2014)

Do take note that that impact occurred millions of years before the movie.

Godzilla, as has been said before, is old in the movie.

So Big G by the time of movie simply might not just be as powerful as he was in the past. Still powerful enough to outright tank a 15 megaton bomb, though.


----------



## Rivers (May 20, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> So Big G by the time of movie simply might not just be as powerful as he was in the past. Still powerful enough to outright tank a 15 megaton bomb, though.



Tank or survive 15 MT? Or is there a difference? 

As I said before I dont think those MUTOs are packing megatons worth of kinetic energy with each strike.


----------



## Nikushimi (May 20, 2014)

NightmareCinema said:


> Do take note that that impact occurred millions of years before the movie.
> 
> Godzilla, as has been said before, is old in the movie.
> 
> So Big G by the time of movie simply might not just be as powerful as he was in the past. Still powerful enough to outright tank a 15 megaton bomb, though.



Do you have any idea the difference between that impact and a 15Mt nuclear bomb? That's not the sort of difference that comes with just old age.

It's probably a better idea to just write off the asteroid feat as artistic rendering.



Rivers said:


> Tank or survive 15 MT? Or is there a difference?



"Tank" means there is little to no damage taken.

We didn't see Godzilla's condition after the fact, so it's impossible to say. All we know for sure is that he survived.


----------



## Tranquil Fury (May 21, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> So is tanking the meteor feat legit?
> 
> continent level+ Godzilla? Anyone?



This assumes he tanks it or the Godzilla in the panel is the one who survived. Same comic has the Shinomura who survived and burrowed closer to the Earth's core died from a possibly megaton nuke. It's like saying that because certain creatures survived the extinction of the dinosaurs means they are that durable, it's flawed logic.



> It's probably a better idea to just write off the asteroid feat as artistic rendering.



Yes, that scene was narrated by the father of the movie Seziwara, it's him giving his theory/speculation, it's not an actual flashback to begin with.



> That's not the sort of difference that comes with just old age.



It's not the first time such a huge difference was handwaved as "being past his prime" or some such but not saying I agree with the scene taken at face value.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 21, 2014)

What durability do we have for Muto and Mufo?


----------



## Qinglong (May 21, 2014)

Doesn't really looked like he tanked it but he did witness it


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 21, 2014)

well I mean witnessing its not really as good of a feat.


----------



## Qinglong (May 21, 2014)

Sticking to Operation Castle is safer


----------



## Tom Servo (May 21, 2014)

So basically Godzilla vs. Slattern is pretty much a stalemate

both are tanks that can eat a lot more damage than they can dish out. Slattern has the size advantage but Godzilla has the strength, weight and durability advantage.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 21, 2014)

Tom Servo said:


> So basically Godzilla vs. Slattern is pretty much a stalemate
> 
> both are tanks that can eat a lot more damage than they can dish out. Slattern has the size advantage but Godzilla has the strength, weight and durability advantage.


Slattern tanked a 1.2 megaton nuke, Godzilla a 15 Megaton nuke. Godzilla also _weighs_ far more than Slattern. Sorry, Godzilla is heads and shoulders over the only Class 5 Kaiju.


----------



## Tom Servo (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> *Slattern tanked a 1.2 megaton nuke, Godzilla a 15 Megaton nuke. Godzilla also weighs far more than Slattern.* Sorry, Godzilla is heads and shoulders over the only Class 5 Kaiju.



That is basically what I said. Problem is they are both tanks so the fight would definitely last a while assuming Godzilla keeps his guard up around his gills this time.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Slattern tanked a 1.2 megaton nuke, Godzilla a 15 Megaton nuke. Godzilla also _weighs_ far more than Slattern. Sorry, Godzilla is heads and shoulders over the only Class 5 Kaiju.



for like the fiftieth time in this thread.

stop believing monster movie weight figures.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> for like the fiftieth time in this thread.
> 
> stop believing monster movie weight figures.


...even though Godzilla's _causes fricking tsunami's_, Nightbringer?


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 22, 2014)

wait I fucked this up

nevermind


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 22, 2014)

okay attempt 2.0 to explain my point



Komodo dragons come up to around the knees of an average person so lets say half a metre tall and they weigh in at about 70kg

Slattern is 181.6m tall.

181.6/0.5 = Slattern is 363.2 times as tall as a Komodo dragon.

Now we can apply some logic and try to work out how much slattern might weigh. Given that Slattern is 363.2x bigger in one direction, it stands to reason that it's 363.2x bigger in every other direction, would you agree?

Therefore Slatterns volume is 363.2*363.2*363.2 or 363.2^3 times bigger than a komodo dragon. In other words you could fit around 47911252 komodo dragons in the space Slattern occupies.

Assuming a constant density we find that Slattern should weigh something in the ballpark of 47911251.968*70 = 3353787637.76kg or *3353787.6 metric tons*.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 22, 2014)

continuing our little thought experiment there

The given weight of Slattern is about 496.85 times less than what we just got (assuming its in metric tons, cbf to work out stupid american measurements right now), this implies that the density of Slattern would be 496.85 times less than that of a komodo dragon. Komodo dragons should have a density approximately that of water, that;s around where most flesh weighs in as far as density is concerned.

So again roughly:

1000kg/m^3 divided by 496.85 gives us accounting for error about 2kg per metre cubed of Slattern.

I could lift up a chunk of slattern the size of my backyard if this was true.


----------



## Montanz (May 22, 2014)

But aren't those 5,000-ish tons figures for kaiju backed by official side material?
Not like it makes sense but still, it wouldn't  be the first time giant monsters end up being less dense than air.


----------



## Rivers (May 22, 2014)

Godzilla in the movie looked like a skyscraper falling on him hurt him a lot.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Godzilla in the movie looked like a skyscraper falling on him hurt him a lot.


Not really. He was up and fine later. This is a creature which tanked a 15 megaton nuke, the skyscraper falling on him didn't do anything to him.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (May 22, 2014)

Montanz said:


> But aren't those 5,000-ish tons figures for kaiju backed by official side material?
> Not like it makes sense but still, it wouldn't  be the first time giant monsters end up being less dense than air.



that's the whole point, Godzilla's not as egregious actually, but at least for Pacific Rim, anyone touting those numbers needs to be told to fuck off.


----------



## Rivers (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Not really. He was up and fine later. This is a creature which tanked a 15 megaton nuke, the skyscraper falling on him didn't do anything to him.



Why did it look like it hurt him though? With all that distressed roaring.  

Also, after that...all he did was sneak up on the Female MUTO, bite her on the neck and then Atomic Breath her in the mouth, with very little resistance from her.

After that he collapsed unconscious...only to recover and wake up mid-late morning...when the rescue teams were well under way around him.


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Why did it look like it hurt him though? With all that distressed roaring.
> 
> Also, after that...all he did was sneak up on the Female MUTO, bite her on the neck and then Atomic Breath her in the mouth, with very little resistance from her.
> 
> After that he collapsed unconscious...only to recover and wake up mid-late morning...when the rescue teams were well under way around him.


It seemed more like a roar of surprise than distress. Godzilla literally forgot his own strength and a extremely tall skyscraper crashing on him. 

The reason of his collapse was exhaustion, not due to any injuries. He had been fighting non-stop for how many days, chasing the MUTO'S across entire oceans? 

And seriously, even if you accept he was hurt by the building collaspe, it a _low end feat._ Godzilla, in the opening scroll, _tanks. A. Nuke._ Which is clarified as a 15 megaton one. Do you honestly believe that cancels out the other?


----------



## Rivers (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> It seemed more like a roar of surprise than distress. Godzilla literally forgot his own strength and a extremely tall skyscraper crashing on him.
> 
> The reason of his collapse was exhaustion, not due to any injuries. He had been fighting non-stop for how many days, chasing the MUTO'S across entire oceans?
> 
> And seriously, even if you accept he was hurt by the building collaspe, it a _low end feat._ Godzilla, in the opening scroll, _tanks. A. Nuke._ Which is clarified as a 15 megaton one. Do you honestly believe that cancels out the other?



Tanks or survives the nuke? 

Also, that nuke feat was 60+ years out of date from active Godzilla in the movie. The skyscraper feat was 15 mins before the movie ends...

Which feat is more up to date? Which feat is more current?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Tanks or survives the nuke?
> 
> Also, that nuke feat was 60+ years out of date from active Godzilla in the movie. The skyscraper feat was 15 mins before the movie ends...
> 
> Which feat is more up to date? Which feat is more current?


Its one in the same Rivers. You want to use a low end feat and ignore Godzilla's high end. Not to mention Rivers, Godzilla is a creature that's survived _since the Permian Extinction_, in the millions of years of life Godzilla's lived, why would a measly 60 weaken him?


----------



## Rivers (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> Its one in the same Rivers.



Not really. 



Nikushimi said:


> "Tank" means there is little to no damage taken.
> 
> We didn't see Godzilla's condition after the fact, so it's impossible to say. All we know for sure is that he survived.





SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> You want to use a low end feat and ignore Godzilla's high end. Not to mention Rivers, Godzilla is a creature that's survived _since the Permian Extinction_, in the millions of years of life Godzilla's lived, why would a measly 60 weaken him?



You're telling me to use a flashback (movie opening) with subjective conclusions on his ability to get hurt, and to ignore all the _*present movie fighting feats*_ of Godzilla roaring in pain by getting stabbed by the MUTOs.

You want me to believe the MUTO's are packing 15 MTs of kinetic energy with each stab....which is why Godzilla is roaring in pain instead of shrugging it off?


----------



## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Rivers said:


> You're telling me to use a flashback (movie opening) with subjective conclusions on his ability to get hurt, and to ignore all the _*present movie fighting feats*_ of Godzilla roaring in pain by getting stabbed by the MUTOs.


Are you ignoring _where_ Godzilla was stabbed? Not to mention the fact that the MUTO's legs are _giant hooks?_ Godzilla got the equivalent of a meathook _in his gills_, and he shrugs it off after roaring it off.


> You want me to believe the MUTO's are packing 15 MTs of kinetic energy with each stab....which is why Godzilla is roaring in pain instead of shrugging it off?


Again, he was hit in his gills. That's the only area that is somewhat 'vulnerable'. The only reason why the MUTO's could take advantage of that is due to the way their _bodies are designed._ Their feet are giant, durable hooks which go into Godzilla's gills and practically try to choke him out. Notice that if they attacked other areas, they didn't do ANYTHING to him.

And before you bring it up, Pacific Rim Kaiju doing the same, they are mostly reptiles and amphibian forms, not able to capitalize on the advantage that the MUTO's had. And the Jaeger's can't really capitalize on it either, even if they stun Godzilla with a hit to the gills he'd just shrug off or tank everything they throw at him.


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## jetwaterluffy1 (May 22, 2014)

Gallavant said:


> I see.. but
> 
> Permian extinction event > Cretaceous extinction event tho
> 
> ...


But the amount of extinctions of an meteor event is not only related to the energy of the event. It is also related to the angle the meteor hit the earth and where it lands, as well as the biology of the planet at the time.


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## Tom Servo (May 22, 2014)

I would also like to point out that this Godzill was getting friggin prison shanked by these Mutos for like 30% of the fight. We don't know if this Godzilla has regeneration abilities like the others so I would say not only is he more durable than Slattern but....I mean....fuck he can take damage like a fucking champ.


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## Rivers (May 22, 2014)

SuperSaiyaMan12 said:


> And before you bring it up, Pacific Rim Kaiju doing the same, they are mostly reptiles and amphibian forms, not able to capitalize on the advantage that the MUTO's had. And the Jaeger's can't really capitalize on it either, even if they stun Godzilla with a hit to the gills he'd just shrug off or tank everything they throw at him.



Hold on, are you saying there are no pointy, clawing, shanky things from PR?

Knifehead
Otachi





Gipsy Danger

Striker Eureka

Slanttern


Also, those stabs Godzilla got obviously didnt just stun him, they took their toll, he didnt simply walk them off, since when all was said and done...he _couldnt_ walk off...and collapsed from the ordeal. 

If he was supposedly to walk carelessly away from a 15 MT explosion, there is no reason for him to collapse that night, instead of swimming away right then and there, when his business was done.

If it wasnt for the explosion at the MUTO's nest, Godzilla was done when they were attacking his gills...it would have been at least a TKO, since he clearly had not strategy to get back up or defend himself.


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Rivers said:


> Hold on, are you saying there are no pointy, clawing, shanky things from PR?


Since they aren't hooks like the MUTO's. 


> Also, those stabs Godzilla got obviously didnt just stun him, they took their toll, he didnt simply walk them off, since when all was said and done...he _couldnt_ walk off...and collapsed from the ordeal.


He never collapsed. He went to sleep after the fight. And yes, they were stunning him.


> If he was supposedly to walk carelessly away from a 15 MT explosion, there is no reason for him to collapse that night, instead of swimming away right then and there, when his business was done.




Low end feats do NOT trump high end. And you DO know how often it is in fiction for characters in fiction to be hurt from a lot less than a nuke despite having nuke durability, right? Stop trying to deny Godzilla's 15 megaton tanking with low end feats.


> If it wasnt for the explosion at the MUTO's nest, Godzilla was done when they were attacking his gills...it would have been at least a TKO, since he clearly had not strategy to get back up or defend himself.


No, Godzilla wasn't done. He was fighting hard then and the MUTO's were gaining up on him. Not to mention again, their weapons were designed to inflict injury on Godzilla's only weak area. 

According to you, it doesn't matter if Godzilla tanked a double digit Megaton nuke. You'll use his low end feats.


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## Frost01 (May 22, 2014)

@SSM12

Why do you keep saying Godzilla tanked the nuke. You know there is NO evidence he no-sold 15 MTs, objectively we can say he survived it.

Lol, he didn't just go to sleep...he roared in pain/fatigued before dropping. It looked liked he had no choice because at the moment his body was done.



Rivers said:


> Slanttern



Those are some nasty kaiju shanking tails!


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## Tom Servo (May 22, 2014)

Does it really matter whether he tanked it or just survived it?

Regardless his durability is still several times higher than the strongest Kaiju in pacific rim


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## SuperSaiyaMan12 (May 22, 2014)

Frost01 said:


> @SSM12
> 
> Why do you keep saying Godzilla tanked the nuke. You know there is NO evidence he no-sold 15 MTs, objectively we can say he survived it.
> 
> Lol, he didn't just go to sleep...he roared in pain/fatigued before dropping. It looked liked he had no choice because at the moment his body was done.


Look at the last page. Godzilla no-selled the 15 Megaton Castle Bravo, Frost01. And the movie itself extrapolates he survived every nuclear test used on him.

And yes, he did go to sleep. His roar was almost like 'yawn, I'm done', and then he collapsed since he was exhausted. 


> Those are some nasty kaiju shanking tails!


Not gonna do much against Godzilla though.


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## TheBlackDragonz (May 25, 2014)

A popular theory for why Godzilla collapsed is that he used so much radiation in those few uses of the atomic breath he passed out. The nuclear explosion then reenergized him. It's like asking someone who has sat on their couch for a year to run a triathlon. The same thing is basically happening to him. He expended a fuckton more energy than he's used to, so he toppled over from exhaustion.


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