# Strongest DBZ character Kaguya can defeat?



## LordPerucho (Jun 4, 2014)

Strongest character Kaguya can defeat?

If Juudara was equal to Raditz(according to some people here), then how is strong is Kaguya comparing to the DBZ character?
Can she defeat the likes of Saiyan Saga Vegeta


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> Can she defeat the likes of Saiyan Saga Vegeta



short answer: no

long answer: hell no


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## Neruc (Jun 4, 2014)

> If Juudara was equal to Raditz


Casual exatons vs casual zettatons?

Nope.

Kaguya's mindfuck should allow her to go past Raditz though. How far depends on the Kaioken Multipliers and what speed they give Nappa/Vegeta/Goku.

She isn't doing anything to them with DC alone though.


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## MusubiKazesaru (Jun 4, 2014)

Raditz busts the moon before MT activates


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

perucho1990 said:


> Strongest character Kaguya can defeat?
> 
> If* Juudara was equal to Raditz*(according to some people here), then how is strong is Kaguya comparing to the DBZ character?
> Can she defeat the likes of Saiyan Saga Vegeta


Not quite the thing (and some things changed since then)
Anyway, nappa and raditz should get the HE of piccolo small planet level (7 zetatons ) Kaguya gets that 2 digit zetatons from Hagoromo
Sadly they are way faster than Kaguya on reactions. (<Mach 24k against mach 126k) 
 If
 she uses genjutsu she easily take them out. (And they can't one shot nor insta-speedblitz her)
We have no idea about her hax yet so at best the 2 of them. 
Saiyan Saga Vegeta speedblitz and curbstomp, though.


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## Zaus (Jun 4, 2014)

Why is it that the Naruto threads get the most attention on average? However, on topic Saiyan Saga Vegeta and anyone around that level could do it casually. 

How fast were characters in the Saiyan Saga here? It says Mach 270, but on Vegeta's profile it says much higher reaction speed, and attack speed.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Zaus said:


> Why is it that the Naruto threads get the most attention on average? However, on topic Saiyan Saga Vegeta and anyone around that level could do it casually.
> 
> How fast were characters in the Saiyan Saga here? It says Mach 270, but on Vegeta's profile it says much higher reaction speed, and attack speed.


Cuz people still can't believe it went from weakest to strongest verse on hst. 
Mach 125 k on reactions for anyone above post timeskip piccolo beam speed (anyone at saiyan saga)
Mach 375 k on reactions for scouter vegeta until Freeza(3x kaioken)
2,8c-8,4c on reactions for anyone above 50% Freeza. (20x kaioken)


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## Nevermind (Jun 4, 2014)

Zaus said:


> Why is it that the Naruto threads get the most attention on average? However, on topic Saiyan Saga Vegeta and anyone around that level could do it casually.



Because people suck.


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## Zaus (Jun 4, 2014)

So, the whole faster than light thing for anyone above 50% Frieza. Was it accepted?


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## Lurko (Jun 4, 2014)

Kaguya has nothing but genjustu atm, and Vegeta speedblitzes.


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## Nevermind (Jun 4, 2014)

Zaus said:


> So, the whole faster than light thing for anyone above 50% Frieza. Was it accepted?



Heavily disputed. Best not to bring it up lest every thread go to shit.


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## Zaus (Jun 4, 2014)

Ah. So the best is Revalistic Kaio-ken x3?


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Zaus said:


> Ah. So the best is Revalistic Kaio-ken x3?


The best? No. 
What we could really achieve until now? Yeah. 
It is really a matter of wonbat not closing unfinished threads, though.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 4, 2014)

I think Kaguya will get zettatons in due time; but not at the moment.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Orochibuto said:


> I think Kaguya will get zettatons in due time; but not at the moment.


Why exactly she can't output a dying Hagoromo power when she is stronger than his prime ?
She is pretty much the absolute god tier of the verse. (the rower and his crew doesn't count cuz they are the ones which controls current jump multiverse behind the tables)


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## Orochibuto (Jun 4, 2014)

When I said not atm I meant this chapter. I think we will get a lot of haxx before Kaguya resorts to DC. She comes accross more like a with Wuya-Maleficent style than a jutsu user.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Orochibuto said:


> When I said not atm I meant this chapter. I think we will get a lot of haxx before Kaguya resorts to DC. She comes accross more like a with Wuya-Maleficent style than a jutsu user.


Oh, sure
 she likely will show her hax off before starting to create and destroying moons.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Anyway, nappa and raditz should get the HE of piccolo small planet level (7 zetatons)



I hate to drag this thing out, but:



did anything change with that while I wasn't looking?


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## TheForgottenPen (Jun 4, 2014)

Didn't nardo get a massive speed downgrade?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2014)

Lesbogear still flattens them, not like it matters


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> I hate to drag this thing out, but:
> 
> 
> 
> did anything change with that while I wasn't looking?


Not sure.
I found one with is 3 digit exaton +-7 zetatons.

If yours is the correct,  she barely make it past raditz, though.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> Didn't nardo get a massive speed downgrade?


Still not accepted until Darth upgrade that bay.


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## TheForgottenPen (Jun 4, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> Lesbogear still flattens them, not like it matters






*sigh Memories... ::33


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> *sigh Memories... ::33


Can't believe you really waited until the 10th page.


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## TheForgottenPen (Jun 4, 2014)

Hey, it was my first and hopefully my only HST thread.

I wanted to see how the cancerdome debates. Sadly, nothing but calc talk, and no feats. Dissapointed in that regard.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> Hey, it was my first and hopefully my only HST thread.
> 
> I wanted to see how the cancerdome debates. Sadly, nothing but calc talk, and no feats. Dissapointed in that regard.


Well that is the cancer for you (after all,  bigattons calcs are >>>>> showing feats)


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## TheForgottenPen (Jun 4, 2014)

Thats dumb


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> *sigh Memories... ::33



Hahahahahaha

Memories indeed.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Jun 4, 2014)

so to sum it all up, Lesbians win and Vegeta also wins 

this thread's done


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> Thats dumb


cancer is dumb.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Iwandesu (Jun 4, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> so to sum it all up, Lesbians win and Vegeta also wins
> 
> this thread's done


Yep, seems pretty fair.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Jun 4, 2014)

You can either accept direct scaling or anglesizing to get a speed for the Juubidama.

2 direct scalings that show basically the same thing are>one panel imo

either way it's obvious that the speed cannot be close to that high for obvious reasons


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## Ashi (Jun 4, 2014)

I'd say Nappa


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## Byrd (Jun 4, 2014)

She gets blasted by Radz


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## Tacocat (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> Didn't nardo get a massive speed downgrade?


No, but it should.



TheForgottenPen said:


> I wanted to see how the cancerdome debates. Sadly, nothing but calc talk, and no feats. Dissapointed in that regard.



I...don't know if you realize, but it's a small few HST characters who garner the most attention in the Battledome. Debate of anything other than whatever newfangled calcs has been thoroughly exhausted, and it's not as if Dragon Ball is notorious for the eclecticism of it's combat techniques.


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## Nevermind (Jun 4, 2014)

Nightbringer said:


> You can either accept direct scaling or anglesizing to get a speed for the Juubidama.
> 
> 2 direct scalings that show basically the same thing are>one panel imo
> 
> either way it's obvious that the speed cannot be close to that high for obvious reasons



Direct scalings trump angular scalings.


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## Regicide (Jun 4, 2014)

TheForgottenPen said:


> Didn't nardo get a massive speed downgrade?


That's still getting contested.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 5, 2014)

After doing a bit of searching. I can comfortably say that their will be a decent downgrade for the speed.

It just has nothing to do with the Bay.

Scaling the Tenpaichii crater directly to the country gives me results of roughly 3,138.46km width for the country they are in. That's a little less than half the necessary value needed for the mach 24,000 calc to be legit (granted the view is at an angle which makes this a bit of a low end.)

I'll do a blog on this tomorrow.


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## Orochibuto (Jun 5, 2014)

In all honesty I can see Kaguya being full planet level.

She has literally all the chakra of the world minus Naruto and Sasuke.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 5, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Why exactly she can't output a dying Hagoromo power when she is stronger than his prime ?
> She is pretty much the absolute god tier of the verse. (the rower and his crew doesn't count cuz they are the ones which controls current jump multiverse behind the tables)



I'm pretty sure I've been over why the supposed zettaton value should be wrong.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 5, 2014)

Isn't Kaguya planet level by virtue of her having all the energy of a planet?


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## LazyWaka (Jun 5, 2014)

She doesn't have all the energy of a planet. She has all the energy of everyone on the planet.

Big difference.


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

ThanatoSeraph said:


> I'm pretty sure I've been over why the supposed zettaton value should be wrong.



I'm curious to this but why?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 5, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> She doesn't have all the energy of a planet. She has all the energy of everyone on the planet.
> 
> Big difference.



Juubi has all the natural energy of the planet. Hell, Juubi is the natural energy of the planet.
And Kaguya>>>Juubi.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 5, 2014)

LazyWaka said:


> While the Shinju was the source of the Natural energy around the planet, he didn't have it all. He was still separate from it after he was revived hence Naruto being able to, you know, use sage mode.



Doesn't it being the source just validate my claim?
Shinju>Fruit=source of planet's energy.


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## LazyWaka (Jun 5, 2014)

Except Madara didn't have access to the planets energy when he was the Juubi jin, Or at least not all of it at once.


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## ThanatoSeraph (Jun 5, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I'm curious to this but why?





From here intermittently to page 7.


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

But the best anwser is we don't know all the details to how Hagoromo did what he did so I would wait.


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 5, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> I don't know enough about calcs to say anything but I'm curious to what flutter the guy who made the calc would think,  flutter is the master of the Naruto calcs.



There are a number of faults with Flutter's calc.
1. The escape velocity he used.
2. No prove that the moon was blasted into orbit as opposed to being moved gradually or teleported there
3. The size of the moon.

We should just call it moon level.


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## Galo de Lion (Jun 5, 2014)

Is she shown or said to be moon level in the manga?


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## Darth Niggatron (Jun 5, 2014)

Hagoromo created the moon.


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## Galo de Lion (Jun 5, 2014)

How are the two connected?


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## Tacocat (Jun 5, 2014)

No one gives a dry fuck what Flutter thinks when he's not around. We're not all sheep to be herded by him; we can deliberate a calc without his input. Indeed, Lurker, you only treasure his opinion because he promotes suspicious Naruto calcs that yield the biggatons.

The creation of a moon being moon level? Nonsense, of course.


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

Cooly said:


> No one gives a dry fuck what Flutter thi. nks when he's not around. We're not all sheep to be herded by him; we can deliberate a calc without his input. Indeed, Lurker, you only treasure his opinion because he promotes suspicious Naruto calcs that yield the biggatons.



Wow relax man, he makes good calcs and that's all I care about


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## Galo de Lion (Jun 5, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Wow relax man, he makes good calcs and that's all I care about



Except that time when Naruto planet was bigger than the Sun based off a map...


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## NightmareCinema (Jun 5, 2014)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> so to sum it all up, Lesbians win and Vegeta also wins
> 
> this thread's done



Thread should've ended here.


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## Tacocat (Jun 5, 2014)

Former Obd Lurker. said:


> Wow relax man, he makes good calcs and that's all I care about



He makes calcs you like. "Good" is not an intrinsic quality of calcs of this sort.


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## tkpirate (Jun 5, 2014)

TTGL said:


> How are the two connected?



kaguya is stronger than RS.

also Naruto planet was never sun sized.


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

There's nothing to debate she stops at radditz, you know that.


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## Source (Jun 5, 2014)

Raditz one-shots


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## trance (Jun 5, 2014)

> Can she defeat the likes of Saiyan Saga Vegeta



Fuck no. Raditz is more than enough. Vegeta is just plain overkill.


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## The Saiyan Prince Vegeta (Jun 5, 2014)

Raditz maybe and that's a big maybe. She's definitely not beating him through sheer DC, but depending on what she shows in the hax department she may win. Even entertaining the idea that she can tussle with Nappa or Saiyan Saga Vegeta is a joke.


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## Black Leg Sanji (Jun 5, 2014)

Cooly said:


> No one gives a dry fuck what Flutter thinks when he's not around. We're not all sheep to be herded by him; we can deliberate a calc without his input. Indeed, Lurker, you only treasure his opinion because he promotes suspicious Naruto calcs that yield the biggatons.
> 
> The creation of a moon being moon level? Nonsense, of course.



So, what level are they REALLY at right now?


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Jun 5, 2014)

Below Raest's social skills level BLS. Same as always


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## LazyWaka (Jun 5, 2014)

TTGL said:


> Except that time when Naruto planet was bigger than the Sun based off a map...



Implying that wasn't just a joke calc. Or a calc made by flutter for that matter.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2014)

Black Leg Sanji said:


> So, what level are they REALLY at right now?


Nardo and sauce are small moon from v2 juubi scalling. 
Hagoromo and Kaguya are at least moon+ .


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## jetwaterluffy1 (Jun 5, 2014)

iwandesu said:


> Nardo and sauce are small moon from v2 juubi scalling.
> Hagoromo and Kaguya are at least moon+



You do realise, BLS was being ironic, right?


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

Source said:


> Raditz one-shots



Implying that I care


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Jun 5, 2014)

If she can react, cant she BFR? ( to space) 

can we power scale kaguya reactions from anything?


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## LazyWaka (Jun 5, 2014)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> If she can react, cant she BFR? ( to space)



We don't know the range of her BFR (if thats even BFR in the first place.)


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2014)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> If she can react, cant she BFR? ( to space)
> 
> can we power scale kaguya reactions from anything?


Yep, to juubi speed calc that is being heavily debated by now (it fluctuates from 5 to 3 digit mach)
Until waka finish his, you can use the one you like better (both were debunked anyway)


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## Alita (Jun 5, 2014)

Kaguya obviously doesn't have the firepower or durability to deal with part 2 DB characters but she does have the hax. How fast are DBZ characters from saiyan saga through to buu saga (For each individual saga.)? I've seen so many speed calcs done for DBZ I don't know what is right or wrong. If she out speeds her foe she likely will be able to get her hax off first.


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## trance (Jun 5, 2014)

Alita54 said:


> Kaguya obviously doesn't have the firepower or durability to deal with part 2 DB characters but she does have the hax. How fast are DBZ characters from saiyan saga through to buu saga (For each individual saga.)? I've seen so many speed calcs done for DBZ I don't know what is right or wrong. If she out speeds her foe she likely will be able to get her hax off first.



Well, apparently, Raditz is relativistic+ up to Freeza who is like so and so FTL.


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## Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha (Jun 5, 2014)

Stαrkiller said:


> Well, apparently, Raditz is relativistic+ up to Freeza who is like so and so FTL.



I believe that's just reaction speed though. They need combat speed in order to avoid Kaguya hax ( well see next week, but it seems like she can warp whole areas since obito was warped aswell)-

I thought Goku over snake way was massively hypersonic. 

Also, I believe their is a calc of Gotanks flying around the planet 12 times in half an hour or something.


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## Lurko (Jun 5, 2014)

Kaguya is borderline featless,  this should be closed.


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## Iwandesu (Jun 5, 2014)

Naruto Maelstrom Uchiha said:


> I believe that's just reaction speed though. They need combat speed in order to avoid Kaguya hax ( well see next week, but it seems like she can warp whole areas since obito was warped aswell)-
> 
> I thought Goku over snake way was massively hypersonic.
> 
> Also, I believe their is a calc of Gotanks flying around the planet 12 times in half an hour or something.


Movement speed is too boosted by kaioken. (They get like 4 digit )
Reactions are ftl and can be used on cqc and to throw ki blast.


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## Zeno (Jun 6, 2014)

Nevermind said:


> Heavily disputed. Best not to bring it up lest every thread go to shit.



Implying this thread wasn't already a stomp?


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## Xelloss (Jun 7, 2014)

Please wait for more feats, you can request this to be open on 2 weeks most likely.


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