# How far can a Bloodlusted Nagato push Hashirama?



## RedChidori (Mar 1, 2014)

The title says it all my friends .



VS



How far can a mobile, fully-powered, bloodlusted Uzumaki Nagato push The God of Shinobi, Senju Hashirama? Would he push Hashi to the limit if not defeat him? Let me know what you think. 

Please provide a legitimate response in your posts and please refrain from trolling.

READY? DISCUSS   !!! _-RedChidori_


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

It depends, how Hashi plays his cards. 

Nagato can use BT + soul rap, and that will kill hashi as he can't do anything to that. 
Full power CT will be dangerous as well. and so on and so forth. 

but I think Hashi will take this at the end of the day high difficult. U_U


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## disgracia (Mar 1, 2014)

making nagato immobile again


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## Grimmjowsensei (Mar 1, 2014)

Not far


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## Kai (Mar 1, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Not far


I see what you did there.


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## Bonly (Mar 1, 2014)

Depends on how the battle play out. Deva path+Asura path are good counters to Mokuton but the sheer size of certain Mokuton and the type used could be a bit hard to deal with. So he could push Hashi to use some of his bigger named jutsu after a certain amount of time but Nagato won't be pushing Hashi as much as Madara did.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

This Nagato could stomp generally anyone in the BD, there were some people who could challenge him such as EMS Madara. 

However Hashirama is the only non-Rikudou/Rinnegan user who actually stands a very good chance at beating Nagato.

It would be close, but I theorise that if Hashirama could merge his Mokuton Ryu with his Deep Forest Bloom, that would really improve his already decent chance at beating Nagato. 

Of course to truly comment on this you'll need to know the scope of Nagato's Ninjutsu mastery. In that if Nagato can actually fuse elements, then Nagato's chances skyrocket. If not then Hashirama still has a really good shot.


One important thing people need to remember, when talking about this match up, is that Nagato isn't Pain. I say this because a lot of pro-Hashirama arguments hinge on Nagato's showings as Pain, which Naruto told us is silly. For instance a Nagato CST is capped at a distanced God Realm CST... . We know a Nagato CST would be many times more powerful because:
- Nagato was chakra malnourished
- God Realm is stronger when he's closer to Nagato
- Nagato's jutsu power and speed canonically supercedes Pain Rikudou's. 
- Nagato/Pain could augment their jutsu with their Rinnegan; refer to when the Rinnegan dilates.


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## RedChidori (Mar 1, 2014)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Not far



 What I tell you about dat trollin' boy!?

Lol I see what you did there though .


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Of course how far Nagato can push Hashirama has implications for Madara vs Hashirama. Seeing as Nagato essentially represents the Rinnegan powers Madara can use. So if the Rinnegan alone could challenge and beat Hashirama...


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## ThunderCunt (Mar 1, 2014)

Blood lust wont help Nagato  more than him trying to be tactical. 
He has ability to make this high diff if he plays it smartly.


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## Destiny Monarch (Mar 1, 2014)

Base Hashirama>=Nagato. 
SM Hashirama>>>>>Nagato. 

Nagato can push a base Hashirama to High-Diff. If Hashirama goes SM right away Nagato gets stomped on by the Buddha.


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

CT should be plenty to deal with the Buddha. Or if he can use BT to push/move the Buddha away via
gravity. (Well, I know, I know, he's Hashi, so gravity does not effect him or his jutsus). lol


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## Fiiction (Mar 1, 2014)

Not farther than EMS Madara.


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## Veracity (Mar 1, 2014)

CT Isn't doing anything to the statue at all. 8 tailed Kyuubi Naruto was physically breaking out of it. The Buddha statue is literally like 100 times he size of full Kurama and can fire 1000 punches in 2 panels. CT gets instantly destroyed, and Nagato gets smeared off the planet.


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## RedChidori (Mar 1, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> CT Isn't doing anything to the statue at all. 8 tailed Kyuubi Naruto was physically breaking out of it. The Buddha statue is literally like 100 times he size of full Kurama and can fire 1000 punches in 2 panels. CT gets instantly destroyed, and Nagato gets smeared off the planet.



But what if Nagato does this:

And this:


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## Kai (Mar 1, 2014)

RedChidori said:


> But what if Nagato summons the Gedo Mazou and uses the technique he used against Hanzo and his army?


Hashirama was holding his own fine from the God Tree itself on the loose.
Hanzo avoided the attack with Shunshin.

Not going to be enough to cause Hashi panic


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## Destiny Monarch (Mar 1, 2014)

New Folder said:


> CT should be plenty to deal with the Buddha. Or if he can use BT to push/move the Buddha away via
> gravity. (Well, I know, I know, he's Hashi, so gravity does not effect him or his jutsus). lol



Is this a joke? Hashirama waits until CT becomes the size of a mountain, he then picks it up with his Budha and dribbles it on Nagato. And no, BT nor ST are even slightly budging the Buddha, that's plain out ridiculous, even CST won't do anything to the Buddha. Base Hashirama beast Nagato either way, so the Buddha does not even have to be factored in.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Kai said:


> Hashirama was holding his own fine from the God Tree itself on the loose.
> Hanzo avoided the attack with Shunshin.
> 
> Not going to be enough to cause Hashi panic



I doubt the Gedo Mazo will be put down with just Mokuton, given the jutsu (and the scale of them) which it displayed.


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## Joakim3 (Mar 1, 2014)

Nagato can push Hashi to mid-possibly hard fight depending on how he plays it.

The fight would end the second Hashirama feels the need to use SM & Shinsuusenju to end the match swiftly, something I can see Nagato encouraging through repeated usages of CT, CST and Gedo Mazo nuking


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## Pitbull00000 (Mar 1, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Base Hashirama>=Nagato.
> SM Hashirama>>>>>Nagato.
> 
> Nagato can push a base Hashirama to High-Diff. If Hashirama goes SM right away Nagato gets stomped on by the Buddha.



exactly this, base hashirama wins mid to high diff and sm would win mid diff.


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> CT Isn't doing anything to the statue at all. 8 tailed Kyuubi Naruto was physically breaking out of it. The Buddha statue is literally like 100 times he size of full Kurama and can fire 1000 punches in 2 panels. CT gets instantly destroyed, and Nagato gets smeared off the planet.


Pain's jutsus is weaker than Nagato's though. U_U



Destiny Monarch said:


> Is this a joke? Hashirama waits until CT becomes the size of a mountain, he then picks it up with his Budha and dribbles it on Nagato. And no, BT nor ST are even slightly budging the Buddha, that's plain out ridiculous, even CST won't do anything to the Buddha. Base Hashirama beast Nagato either way, so the Buddha does not even have to be factored in.



So, the Buddha won't get effected by the gravity? 
and neither will Hashi? 

Well, that's just what I said he's hashi therefore gravity does not effect him.  

how can base hashi defeats Nagato exactly?


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## Jagger (Mar 1, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Of course how far Nagato can push Hashirama has implications for Madara vs Hashirama. Seeing as Nagato essentially represents the Rinnegan powers Madara can use. So if the Rinnegan alone could challenge and beat Hashirama...


The Rinnegan can push Hashirama quite far, but, as we all know, Nagato isn't the original user of it and while he became quite skilled and powerful with it, he still didn't unlock its fullest potential unlike Madara, the original user.

It really depends on how Hashirama acts, tbh. If he decides to start with some generic Mokuton jutsu or Wooden Dragons, things will eventually get too rough and start with pulling out the bigger guns such as Mokujin or even Sage Mode.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 1, 2014)

Depends on distance, location and knowledge.

In some instances, Nagato can obviously kill Hashirama, along with anyone in the verse.


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## LostSelf (Mar 1, 2014)

Depends on the preparation as well. A Nagato creating an exact copy of Hashirama and fighting along with can beat almost anybody that doesn't have will of fire. I forgot the name of the jutsu, but is the one he used against Team Gai.

Of course, if he is not killed before.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Jagger said:


> The Rinnegan can push Hashirama quite far, but, as we all know, Nagato isn't the original user of it and while he became quite skilled and powerful with it, he still didn't unlock its fullest potential unlike Madara, the original user.



We don't know how much of the potential Nagato unlocked. We know he can't use Outer Path chains.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 1, 2014)

> A Nagato creating an exact copy of Hashirama and fighting along with can beat almost anybody that doesn't have will of fire. I forgot the name of the jutsu, but is the one he used against Team Gai.


The 30% clone?

Doubtful that helps at all, especially considering the clone takes on the attributes of the user (Hashirama would have to be doing the technique).


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## Destiny Monarch (Mar 1, 2014)

New Folder said:


> So, the Buddha won't get effected by the gravity?
> and neither will Hashi?
> 
> Well, that's just what I said he's hashi therefore gravity does not effect him.
> ...



Do you even comprehend how big the Buddha is? *CT* gets easily decoyed. 

How can Hashirama defeat Nagato exactly.........What counters does Nagato have to the Buddha exactly? What counters does Nagato have against Kajukai Korin exactly? What counters does Nagato have to Mokujin exactly? Nagato gets beaten, wether you like it or not.


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> The 30% clone?
> 
> Doubtful that helps at all, especially considering the clone takes on the attributes of the user (Hashirama would have to be doing the technique).



No, the 30% clones were the one he used with kisame and itachi. 
the clones he used against team Guy were at exactly the same power as the real ones.


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Do you even comprehend how big the Buddha is? *CT* gets easily decoyed.
> 
> How can Hashirama defeat Nagato exactly.........What counters does Nagato have to the Buddha exactly? What counters does Nagato have against Kajukai Korin exactly? What counters does Nagato have to Mokujin exactly? Nagato gets beaten, wether you like it or not.



CT is huge as well, and to destroyed several mountains, so what's your point?
4

Also, Deva said he could do a bigger one than that, not to mention Nagato himself has 
a stronger power than his paths, so if he did the CT it will be even stronger. 

1- I'm sure you said base Hashirama. 
as for the Buddha, there is CT. 

2- I'm not sure what jutsu is that, but assuming it's the trees, then Nagato can blow them with
Asura's cannon, or ST, or use his bird to fly. 

3- Preta path to absorbed the wood. And before you say "it can't be absorbed" that just the wooden dragon. 

Hashi gets soul rape whether you like it or not <<< see how does that work? 
or Hashi gets defeated by the black rods, whether you like it or not <<< which is canon by the way.


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## LostSelf (Mar 1, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> The 30% clone?
> 
> Doubtful that helps at all, especially considering the clone takes on the attributes of the user (Hashirama would have to be doing the technique).



It's not the one he used with Itachi and Kisame. It's the trap jutsu he used that forced Gai to fight himself. It said the jutsu created an exact copy of the enemy.

This one,


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## ARGUS (Mar 1, 2014)

Nagato pushes Hashirama to a mid diff fight,,, 

Hashiramas mokuton techniques are likely to negate the preta path absorption abilities,,, meaning that nagato would have to use ST to deflect and destroy most of the mokuton,,,, 
smaller scale mokutons can be destroyed by asura missiles,,, 
if nagato manages to come in CQC then hashirama would have to be cautious due to human path,,, 

however once hashi goes SM,, his mokuton techniques,, enhances reflexes that can react to even FTG,, and sheer strength of his jutsu would be too much for him,,,
once he brings out SS then Hashirama would overwhelm nagato quite easily,, as CK can destroy the CT orb,, no matter how big it is,,, 
seeing as how,, it tanked 11 PS infused TBB and still managed to destroy PS



> What counters does Nagato have against Kajukai Korin exactly?



Nagato is a sensor,,,, he can also use summons to fly,,, 
the pollen isnt very strong,, and on top of that nagato can locate it,, and use even asura missiles to destroy it,,,
or if that isnt enough,, then a forest destroying ST will eradicate the pollen,,, 
so while nagato cant counter SS,,, he can still counter flower tree world


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

> [=Kifflom!!;49982497]Nagato pushes Hashirama to a mid diff fight,,,
> 
> Hashiramas mokuton techniques are likely to negate the preta path absorption abilities,,, meaning that nagato would have to use ST to deflect and destroy most of the mokuton,,,,
> smaller scale mokutons can be destroyed by asura missiles,,,
> if nagato manages to come in CQC then hashirama would have to be cautious due to human path,,,



only the wooden dragon that can make preta useless. 


> however once hashi goes SM,, his mokuton techniques,, enhances reflexes that can react to even FTG,, and sheer strength of his jutsu would be too much for him,,,


proof that he can react to FTG? 


> once he brings out SS then Hashirama would overwhelm nagato quite easily,, as CK can destroy the CT orb,, no matter how big it is,,,


it does not matter if he destroyed CT and lost the arms, since Nagato is not the CT.
Also, I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that the SS can destroy CT regardless 
of the size! 


> seeing as how,, it tanked 11 PS infused TBB and still managed to destroy PS



that's cool and all, but how the SS is going to be balanced to make all that punches? Also, in order for it to destroy the PS, it lost all of its arm, if CT managed to do the same, that will leave
the Buddha useless after that, which will be good enough, because Nagato won't be harmed if
the CT got destroyed or something. 

so after that it will be the same as his battle against madara more or less, and Hashi would have to fight Nagato by himself, no? @.@

but, anyway, since I agree that hashi will win at the end, I think I can stop here, it does not matter
how he will win, if he will win anyway, @.@


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## Dominus (Mar 1, 2014)

Chibaku Tensei will work if the one Nagato uses is 20 times bigger than the one Pain used and if Hashirama stands around doing nothing while the sphere is pulling everything.


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## Destiny Monarch (Mar 1, 2014)

New Folder said:


> CT is huge as well, and to destroyed several mountains, so what's your point?
> This



CT starts off as a small black ball, so no its not huge. And no, it never destroyed any mountains. 



> Also, Deva said he could do a bigger one than that, not to mention Nagato himself has
> a stronger power than his paths, so if he did the CT it will be even stronger.



You do realize that he would have to make one several times larger then the Buddha to capture it cover it right? He would not be able to do that, not to mention Hashirama won't be idly sitting and watching. 



> 1- I'm sure you said base Hashirama.
> as for the Buddha, there is CT.



Yes, base Hashirama beats Nagato as well. Just replace the Buddha with Mokujin. CT does not counter the Buddha. The Buddha EASILY destroys CT. 



> 2- I'm not sure what jutsu is that, but assuming it's the trees, then Nagato can blow them with
> Asura's cannon, or ST, or use his bird to fly.



Its the huge landscape changing Mokouton that knocks out anyone who inhales the pollen. If Nagato decides to fly, he gets knocked back down by Mokujin. 



> 3- Preta path to absorbed the wood. And before you say "it can't be absorbed" that just the wooden dragon.



Hashiramas Wood absorbs faster then Preta path. And no, all of Hashiramas Mokuton have shown to be abele to suppress. 



> Hashi gets soul rape whether you like it or not <<< see how does that work?
> or Hashi gets defeated by the black rods, whether you like it or not <<< which is canon by the way.



Except he doesn't. Nagato=/=Madara. 

Base Hashirama beats Nagato, SM Hashirama stomps him.


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## Veracity (Mar 1, 2014)

Elia, the strength difference between an 8 tailed Kyuubi Naruto and the Buddha statue is FAR larger then the gap between Nagato and Pain. Nagato may produce a CT double the strength of pain at most, but the Buddha statue is like 100 times stronger then even full powered Kurama.


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## Destiny Monarch (Mar 1, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Elia, the strength difference between an 8 tailed Kyuubi Naruto and the Buddha statue is FAR larger then the gap between Nagato and Pain. Nagato may produce a CT double the strength of pain at most, but the Buddha statue is like 100 times stronger then even full powered Kurama.



Oh that's Elia, I was wondering who can possibly think that Nagato can take down Hashirama


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## Veracity (Mar 1, 2014)

Destiny Monarch said:


> Oh that's Elia, I was wondering who can possibly think that Nagato can take down Hashirama



Lol yeah him and a few others think that. Why they do is completely beyond my comprehension. Kishi makes it tremendously obvious that both Hashirama and Madara are on completely different level/tiers then Nagato. EMS Madara and Base Hashirma could beat Prime/ Full powered/ Mobile / I don't give a darn Nagato mid - difficulty. They are simply just more powerful.


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## Turrin (Mar 1, 2014)

First off all this Prime Nagato, being an Edo Nagato w/ mobility is not correct. Prime Nagato is the one Jiriaya and Naruto fought, because it's always going to be harder for someone to defeat Pain-Rikudo and than have to fight a Nagato who can summon GM [w/ 7 Bijuu] than facing just Nagato, no matter what condition Nagato is in. 

Anyway the only way Nagato can defeat Hashirama, is if the match happens under the same conditions as Jiraiya fought Pain. Basically a scenario where Hashirama has little to not knowledge of Rinnegan and engages the Pain Rikudo. The reason Nagato can win in that scenario is even if Hashirama defeats the Pain Rikudo w/ little difficulty, it wouldn't get him anywhere as they'd just keep being revived by Nagato using Naraka Realm, Naraka Realm itself, or Nagato simply recreating the corpses. Eventually even Hashirama would loose. 

However that scenario assumes Hashirama does not have much knowledge of the Rinnegan, something I really do not think is the case. 

Assuming Hashirama does have sufficient knowledge of Rinnegan, than Pain Rikudo might force Hashirama to get serious enough to use Tree World/Flower Tree World, but Flower Tree world is where it ends. From there Hashirama would fight Nagato, and Nagato with knowledge gained via the Rikudo, GM & 6-Paths Jutsu may be able to force Hashirama to use Mokuton-Dragon + Mokuton-Golem, but that's where it ends. So I say all said and done Nagato at his best forces Hashirama to get semi-serious, but not to the extent where SM or Senpo Shin Suusenju is needed.


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## Trojan (Mar 1, 2014)

Likes boss said:


> Lol yeah him and a few others think that. Why they do is completely beyond my comprehension. Kishi makes it tremendously obvious that both Hashirama and Madara are on completely different level/tiers then Nagato. EMS Madara and Base Hashirma could beat Prime/ Full powered/ Mobile / I don't give a darn Nagato mid - difficulty. They are simply just more powerful.



I actually did not say Nagato will defeat hashirama. 
what I'm arguing is about "how difficult" 

as for the earlier posts, I might or might not reply to them later. U_U
as for portrayal, it's really depends

kishi stated that Hiruzen is stronger than hashirama, but do you see Hashi's fans acknowledging that? No

Kishi made Jiraiya stronger than itachi but do you see itachi's fans acknowledging that? No 
Kishi did state that current Sakura is on the same level as KCM Naruto and EMS sasuke (at the level he was at), but do you see people acknowledging that? No.

kishi made Minato superior to Tobirama, but do some people acknowledging that? No.

and the lest go on and on.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Authoritah said:


> Chibaku Tensei will work if the one Nagato uses is 20 times bigger than the one Pain used and if Hashirama stands around doing nothing while the sphere is pulling everything.



Using a Mokuton dragon to try and absorb the CT chakra, or getting Mokuton Shinsuusenju to use its elements are the only things Hashirama can do.

However anything else is useless seeing as he'd probably just contribute to the CT.


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## Kai (Mar 1, 2014)

Shinsuusenju =/= land masses that can't attack.

Anything susceptible to gravitational pull contributes to Chibaku Tensei; that includes attacks and transformations that have broken Chibaku Tensei. Hashirama is pulled towards the orb with gravity and utterly obliterates it with Shinsuusenju.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Kai said:


> Shinsuusenju =/= land masses that can't attack.
> 
> Anything susceptible to gravitational pull contributes to Chibaku Tensei; that includes attacks and transformations that have broken Chibaku Tensei. Hashirama is pulled towards the orb with gravity and utterly obliterates it with Shinsuusenju.



With an elemental barrage, that is obvious. However I'd be sceptical with believing its physical attacks would do much.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 1, 2014)

Far enough to crush him in one move with Mokuton like he's nothing more than a disgruntled termite.


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## Lawrence777 (Mar 1, 2014)

Well it's conveniently easy to scale size since both Shinssugen and CT were used against the Kyuubi. Although CT was used against Kyuubi's 1/2 8/9tails incarnation.


SS could probably spike CT back at Nagato and recreate Madara's meteorite scene.

I don't think there's much Nagato can do for the actual battle. Madara attributed surviving bijuu pinball to having Hashirama's healing factor. By extension that means Hashi has that level durability. 

Asura missiles and shinra tensei are unlikely to kill him if he was able to survive bijuu pinball IMO.
Offensively speaking, he could use tajuu mokuton bushin jutsu and have a clone squad mokuton meld under Nagato while another clone squad spams mokuton and another clone squad waits for ST openings. He could also use one of his perfect susanoo-size mokuton constructs while his clones are harassing Nagato.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

If Nagato can stab Hashirama with several Gedo stakes, he can potentially win. Even if he just stabs one.


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## Jagger (Mar 1, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> We don't know how much of the potential Nagato unlocked. We know he can't use Outer Path chains.


Then, the rest is just speculation.

I understand Nagato's potential was better than just ending as a crippled sending orders to a corpse, but, at the end of the day, it is just empty potential that was never reached due different circunstamces.

In other words, it's pretty much like Itachi's prime.


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 1, 2014)

Jagger said:


> Then, the rest is just speculation.
> 
> I understand Nagato's potential was better than just ending as a crippled sending orders to a corpse, but, at the end of the day, it is just empty potential that was never reached due different circunstamces.
> 
> In other words, it's pretty much like Itachi's prime.



The fact we are talking about a prime healthy Nagato invites that speculation. 
Seeing as we've not seen him go all out. 

Itachi's potential is different, the manga just said he's like the way he fought Sasuke. Except he doesn't cough blood, moves slightly faster; other things include the willingness to use Susanoo.


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## Ersa (Mar 2, 2014)

Might make Hashirama contemplate going Sage Mode before the former decides against it and buries him a few hundred feet below the ground. Nagato is bordering on top tier at full power but this is the guy who held off 100% Kurama and EMS Madara in base until the fusion, both whom would shit on Nagato.


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## Augustus Haugerud (Mar 2, 2014)

They are *not* in the same league. 

How I see it...

Nagato tier = "OP as hell"
Hashirama tier = "Are you effing kidding me?"

Do I think a blood lusted Nagato would grab Hashi's attention? Of course I do, Nagato is one of the only ones that can change the landscape like Hashi. However, what is Nagato going to do against some budha that bitch slaps susanoo's and tailed beasts? What is Nagato going to do against a sudden appearance of gigaton of lumber? 

1.) Nagato can't absorb most of his oppenent's jutsu in this case
2.) Nagato's summons will be brushed aside by Budha
3.) Nagato's shinra tensei will only have an effect if he makes it ridiculously large, quickly exhausting himself.
4.) Nagato is not going to touch Hashirama for a soul rip. Even if he did, it would take him too long most likely.
5.) Asura path will be drowned in forest


He's just simply too out tanked and out gunned here. Now I don't think it would be easy diff for Hashi as many would like to think (seriously how did so many get the idea Nagato is some low tier jonin?) but it wouldn't be a hard match either.


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2014)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm pretty sure Hashirama can just use the Mokujin to smash Nagato, and that's game. The thing could toss around Bijuudama; it would overpower any defense Nagato throws up.

If we (falsely) assume that large scale Shinra Tensei will destroy Hashirama's Mokuton beats, he'll just tap into his enormous reserves and make new ones. Then he'll attack in intervals with the Mokujin & Mokuryū to exploit ST''s cool down.

Hashirama wins with no difficulty. The only thing that could push him would be Chibaku Tensei, but Nagato would most likely die before resorting to his life-shortening trump card. Nagato is bordering on top-tier, but Hashirama decisively crushes every solo top-tier under fair conditions. They need to team up to fight him to the brink (i.e. Madara & Kurama, or - hypothetically - Naruto & Sasuke). Only Space & Time top-tiers like Obito and Edo Minato stand a chance as they can at least avoid being wood hammered to death, but they would need favorable circumstances & luck to win.


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## DaVizWiz (Mar 2, 2014)

It's never a matter of blending techs and counters together, Rocky.

Location, distance and knowledge factor in. 

If Hashirama starts 10m from Nagato without knowledge, he's casually pasted by a CST without difficulty. There is absolutely 0 counter to this logic.


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## Nikushimi (Mar 2, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> It's never a matter of blending techs and counters together, Rocky.
> 
> Location, distance and knowledge factor in.
> 
> If Hashirama starts 10m from Nagato without knowledge, he's casually pasted by a CST without difficulty. There is absolutely 0 counter to this logic.



If we're assuming they go all out from the very beginning, then Hashirama very casually overpowers Nagato's CST with Mokuton spam and pastes him instead.


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2014)

DaVizWiz said:


> It's never a matter of blending techs and counters together, Rocky.
> 
> Location, distance and knowledge factor in.
> 
> If Hashirama starts 10m from Nagato without knowledge, he's casually pasted by a CST without difficulty. There is absolutely 0 counter to this logic.




....no. Molding the Chakra for a village-scaled Shinra Tensei is going to take a bit longer than you think. Hashirama should have time to defend with the Hōbi, which he was able to throw up _mid explosion_ against Kurama. After that, Hashirama grabs Nagato (with the same technique that caught the quintuple-mountain-cutting Perfect Kyusano'o's sword) and fucking smashes him.

No knowledge is irrelevant as the legend of Nagato's Rinnegan alone will most likely prompt deadly force from Hashirama, much like it did for Jiraiya. Furthermore, would you explain to me why you're under the assumption that "no knowledge" stipulations turn legendary Shinobi into incompetent tards that stand there twiddling they're dicks while they're opponents kill them without difficulty...?


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## Ersa (Mar 2, 2014)

CST requires a little prep time, the attack is nigh-instant but the chakra gathering needed is not. Nagato isn't getting it off before Hashirama buries him.


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2014)

Ersatz said:


> CST requires a little prep time, the attack is nigh-instant but the chakra gathering needed is not.




...Chakra gathering is required for all Ninjutsu. Never forget the basics.


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## Ersa (Mar 2, 2014)

Well yeah but for most ninjutsu it's so fast no one cares. CST is different.


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2014)

Nevermind. Read that wrong, like:



> CST requires little prep time, the attack is nigh-instant. The chakra gathering is not needed.


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## ARGUS (Mar 2, 2014)

richard lewis said:


> *we've already seen healthy nagato's CT and it was destroyed by an FRS, a BD, and a susanoo blast,*



That was not healthy nagato,man,, 
it was immobile, crippled nagato with a fake edo tensei rinnegan,,,


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## Ersa (Mar 2, 2014)

The amount of firepower Hashirama can output when compared to Itachi, KCM Naruto and B is on a completely different level. More so then any minor difference between Edo Nagato and Prime Nagato. The former could actually be stronger due a much higher chakra pool and regeneration. Chibaku Tensei is useless here.

The Buddha can pull it out of the sky and drop it on Nagato.


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## fior fior (Mar 2, 2014)

Ersatz said:
			
		

> More so then any minor difference between Edo Nagato and Prime Nagato.



All evidence points to the contrary.

Edo Madara was not nearly fast enough to keep up with A and got off-paneled by Hashirama. The moment he got hold of his living body, however, he overpowered Edo Hashirama zero-diff and blitzed SM Naruto and Tobirama.

The difference was quite noticeable.


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## fior fior (Mar 2, 2014)

Nagato could push Hashirama to high-extreme difficulty, but I'm not under the illusion that Nagato would win..


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## Grimm6Jack (Mar 2, 2014)

Via hype Hashi should win with a whole lot of difficulty.

But let me note something here... The feats he was pulling with Pain Rikudou, are not only much weaker than himself using them but he at the time was not even in his prime condition.
Nagato is someone who we will never know the limits of his strength when he's not restricted by anything.


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## Jizznificent (Mar 2, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> If Nagato can stab Hashirama with several Gedo stakes, he can potentially win. Even if he just stabs one.


if this was anybody not named naruto, madara, or hashirama (not sure about sasuke or obito), i would probably agree with you. but hashirama's chakra is likely too potent for nagato to surpress with chakra rods the same way that madara did.


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## Dominus (Mar 2, 2014)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Using a Mokuton dragon to try and absorb the CT chakra, or getting Mokuton Shinsuusenju to use its elements are the only things Hashirama can do.
> 
> However anything else is useless seeing as he'd probably just contribute to the CT.



He could also potentially  and .


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Mar 2, 2014)

When you guys mention CST, why do I get the impression that you're referring to a distanced Tendo CST rather than a healthy prime Nagato CST?


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