# Xi3 reveals Piston. SteamBox speculation thread.



## αshɘs (Jan 8, 2013)

*edit2: there's going to be 3 announcements next week*





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*edit: so it turned out the Piston is not a Steambox at all. Doug Lombardi denied any involvement currently with this company and its product.

*

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*Original OP*



Press Release



> Xi3Corporation today announced a development stage system optimized for computer gameplay on large high-definition television monitors.
> 
> Housed in the uniquely shaped, grapefruit-size Xi3? Modular? Computer chassis, this new development stage product is being showcased this week at the 2013 International CES trade show in Las Vegas, Nevada in booth #20425 in the Las Vegas Convention Center. Xi3's new development stage product is designed specifically to support both Steam? and its Big Picture? mode for residential and LAN party computer gaming on larger high-def screens.
> 
> ...



media coverage:

Link removed




possible specs for their existing models:






> The project that Xi3 is working on for Valve is code named Piston. Xi3's own higher-end 7 Series system will form the basis for Piston, but the company says that the specs and the final look of the product will be different than its existing product. For what it's worth, the Xi3 7 Series is based on AMD's R-Series APUs, which are quad core processing chips that go up to 3.2GHz, with AMD's 384 core Radeon HD 7660G graphics core built-in. The Series 7 supports up to 8GB of RAM, and can output video at resolutions as high as 4,096x2,160 from a system thatrequires only 40 watts of power and measures only 4.27x3.66x3.66-inches cubed.



Could this be THE "Steambox" or is this whole thing going to be like Nexus and this is just the first product of many?

Their engineer recently said in a conference that any announcement should be around GDC or E3.


More info to follow as Valve will have their showing on CES today.

Who is supposed to be the targeted audience? Console gamers who are interested in getting into the PC scene? Do Valve really want to compete with next gen consoles? Not sure with those specs and prices. 

Not to mention the OS will be Linux based. But if they can get developers and publishers on board, then fine.

We'll see.

edit:


*Spoiler*: _more pics_ 









[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfqiYG7wiI[/YOUTUBE]


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## αshɘs (Jan 8, 2013)

so this is just one of many prototypes





> Reached for comment this morning about the forthcoming piece of hardware, Valve marketing director Doug Lombardi told Polygon that Piston is just one of many hardware prototypes they brought to the show.
> 
> "Valve will be at CES to meet with hardware and content developers in our booth space," Lombardi said. "We are bringing multiple custom (hardware) prototypes as well as some off-the-shelf PCs to our CES meetings."
> 
> ...



edit: some pics of other prototypes


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## αshɘs (Jan 8, 2013)

A long, exclusive interview with Gabe


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## dream (Jan 8, 2013)

Here's to hoping that this move by Valve pays off.  I'm most curious about Valve's own Steam Box.


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

the verge made a follow-up article to that interview with possible pricings included





> Newell also tipped Valve's hand on target pricing for Steam Boxes built by partners, saying that the company sees three tiers of hardware specifications: "Good, Better," and "Best." He says the goal for a "Good" platform is a free device, but that one would probably start around $99 and eventually come down. Newell says a midrange device should cost around $300, and that the top-tier is only limited by how much someone is willing to spend.



also that enginner I mentioned in the OP now said they don't plan to announce anything this year 



seems a bit all over the place right now. Hopefully this gets clarified soon instead of them beating around the bush.


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

seriously I don't know who to believe anymore  This is ridiculous. Valve, please, hire some decent PR people.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2013)

*Xi3 Piston "Steam Box" Details CES 2013*

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py_3Zo4mqAA[/YOUTUBE]


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

already made a thread for in the pc section  includes some other articles and an interview with Gabe


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

btw I'm not sure where the Piston fits in. Gabe was talking about 3 potential tiers - good, better, best - with the lowest tier being ~99$, the mid-tier ~300$ and the highest depending on the user. Performance-wise I'd place it in the lowest one (it'd be good for streaming I guess. I mean can we put a discrete GPU in it? Doesn't seem like it.), but price-wise surely it's higher.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2013)

oops, I'll ask for this thread to be closed then. I searched for "Steam Box" but didn't get any results.


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

no prob. It's not like the thread got any activity in that section :/ but seeing this is still too vague, maybe it's for the better


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2013)

So here is how I see this: This is pretty much the end of Console gaming as we know it.

For years now we've been moving towards a converging point where game consoles become more and more like PCs. What Steam is doing to change the game is they are moving the PC into the console space.

The first major difference is: 

The Steam Network is basically not going to distinguish between playing on PC or playing a Steambox, whichever platform your playing on, you'll be able to play with other people who are also on the Steam Network. If you've been playing on Steam, you've got your friends list and a social network already set up.

In addition there is also a massive library of game available on Steam, and if you have a game on your Steam Account you don't have to repurchase it for your Steam Box if you get one later.

The second major difference is that the Steam Box isn't a "Locked" system.

The Wii U's hardware specs are never going to change. They will be the same specs after they've sold 20 million Wii Us as they were when they made their first Wii U.

The same will be true for the PS4 or the Xbox 720 if they keep on their current business model.

The same will not be true for Steam Box.

The lines between "generations" would simply evaporate because manufacturer could upgrade the hardware specs of their "steam box", and in the the case of the Xi3 Piston, the hardware is already upgade-able by the end user as soon as they get it out of the box.

That means that Steam exclusive developers would never have to wait for the next 6 to 8 more years for better hardware to become available before pushing the envelope. Instead they can develop for high end PCs again, higher than the 720 and the PS4 can hope to reach if they're "locked", and eventually people can get Steam Boxes to where they can run the new hardware.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2013)

This thread is deffinately better researched than mine, but I think an argument could be made for this thread being moved to general "gaming" discussion rather than PC specific because of the impact this is likely to have on gaming as a hole.

A lot of lines between PC and Console gaming are likely to merge within the next year or so.


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## Furious George (Jan 9, 2013)

Half-Life.

I agree that this is probably better suited for the General Gaming section, given the Piston's ambition. 

I will buy this when is Half-Life 2: Episode III coming out?


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

Yeah, you're right. Gonna ask Boskov to move it and merge it with the other one.

George, the Piston is only one possible prototype.


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## Furious George (Jan 9, 2013)

I see.
Do you know when  Half Life 2: Episode III is coming out? :33


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

Never.

Ricochet 2 will come out though eventually :ho


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2013)

Until Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo all go third party or feel the market has dried up, consoles and dedicated gaming devices aren't going anywhere. Valve is a small-ish company, and so their outreach will be minimal.

Valve are not trying to make a console so much as they are trying to sell steam to more users(doing this by intruding on the console space), but they underestimate their uphill battle.

Steam just hit 6 million concurrent users just late last year, a record for them and it has not been hit since. Comparing that to 40million concurrent Live users or 30 million Plus users on any given day, people aren't going to give up their ecosystems for that.


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## Naruto (Jan 9, 2013)

I predicted this.



^Right here. I wrote this as soon as Big Picture came out.


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm wondering how this Linux-based Steam OS will turn out. Can they convince the bigger devs, publishers to port their titles over, or are they going to make some custom-made emulator or WINE upgrade that guarantees that everything runs without problems?

But yeah, for the people expecting this is going to make MS, Sony and Nintendo sweat, I don't think Valve have the size, the name and resources for that.Looks like a niche product that maybe slowly can grow to something bigger. We'll see.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 9, 2013)

The thing about Steam is that Valve has gotten a cut of every sale. There have been millions of steam games downloaded and on every one of those Valve makes some money.

One of the big differences though is that Valve doesn't ask for as much money as Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft do. They have been pushing $60 or more on their next console releases while new games on Steam come out for $50.

If Steam Box has any kind of success at all, they'll have come down on their game prices to remain competitive, and that would effectively price Microsoft and Sony out of the market.

MS and Sony loose money on new consoles when they come out with the intention being of making that money back on future game sales. If steam becomes a big enough player in the market that they have to cut back the price of their games $10 to stay in the market, that could be the end for them.

Nintendo less so because they sell their consoles at or bellow cost.


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## Naruto (Jan 9, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I'm wondering how this Linux-based Steam OS will turn out. Can they convince the bigger devs, publishers to port their titles over, or are they going to make some custom-made emulator or WINE upgrade that guarantees that everything runs without problems?
> 
> But yeah, for the people expecting this is going to make MS, Sony and Nintendo sweat, I don't think Valve have the size, the name and resources for that.Looks like a niche product that maybe slowly can grow to something bigger. We'll see.



I don't agree. Steam is offering a solution that is superior to consoles while having all the advantages of consoles.

This will bring the fantastic digital sales and prices of Steam into the world of consoles, which is dominated by ludicrous pricing at the moment.

If you look at  and you take into account the fact that Sony is already starting to implement competitive digital sale prices then you must see that the big three are taking it seriously.

If this takes off - and there's a lot of reasons why it should - it could mean wonders to PC consumers around the world. Linux has become so accessible over the years and it's such a superior operating system overall. I honestly would have transitioned over to Linux for good if my gaming options weren't so diminished there.


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## αshɘs (Jan 9, 2013)

I see what you guys mean and I'm actually pro-Valve on this whole issue I just try keep my expectations in check.

I mean what about the hardware? I'm no expert in this, but let's say their 'better' tier spec will cost indeed 300$. Will it be modular? Will it rival the new Xbox and PS on performance from the get go? I assume putting something like that together would cost more. Can they convince hardver vendors, manufacturers to go lower?

That's why I mentioned the Piston earlier. Performance-wise it doesn't seem too competitive for next-gen, but price-wise it should be expensive.

Anyway, their controller solution combined with biometrics and this streaming, server idea sound exciting.


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## Ae (Jan 9, 2013)

This makes me tingle like I never tingle before


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 9, 2013)

I always wondered where those steam sale profits went. Obviously at those ridiculously low prices the devs and pubs aren't getting a cut. Why would they be interested in developing for a strict steam box if Valve is trying to push it as a dedicated piece of hardware?

When 90% of the game industry's profits goes toward consoles, its going to have a tough time. What's good for you is definitely not good for me


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## strongarm85 (Jan 10, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I see what you guys mean and I'm actually pro-Valve on this whole issue I just try keep my expectations in check.
> 
> I mean what about the hardware?



Standard PC Hardware. For people with High End Gaming PCs there is actually $100 Nvidia videocard being put out designed specifically to stream your Steam Client to your TV and play it there. So if you already have a high end gaming PC for $100 you can make it so that your Gaming PC gives you all the same advantages that new home console would give you.

That fact important because it means that the "Steambox" when it comes out is not going to be a locked system.



> I'm no expert in this, but let's say their 'better' tier spec will cost indeed 300$. Will it be modular?



It is highly probable the system will probably not be jailed. If that is the case, then upgrading the console would pretty easy.

Modular?

I don't know yet.



> Will it rival the new Xbox and PS on performance from the get go?



Unless Sony is and Microsoft plan on loosing $400 or $500 on each console they sell, more than likely not. However I suspect that Microsoft is taking similar approach to Steam.

I don't know if you've messed around with Windows 8 yet, but when you change Windows 8 over to Gaming Mode it pulls up X-Box Live Dashboard. Honestly I suspect that the next X-box is going to be running on Windows 8, or possibly even a better version of Windows 8 then the one that is out now.



> I assume putting something like that together would cost more. Can they convince hardver vendors, manufacturers to go lower?



I can't answer it, but I'll try to tackle this in three parts so you might get it.

1. Hard specs are part of the equation. Every time you start up a gaming console it boots a low resource operating system that is basically optimized for playing game.

The neat thing about Linux is that the Kernal has always been much more highly optimized then any other operating system. The Linux Kernal loads faster and uses fewer resource. If you set a Linux computer and Windows computer side by side with identical specs the Linux computer is more powerful because it can make better use of it's resources.

So the first step to answering that question is to wait for the Steam version of Linux to come out. People will get into it, and see how well it's optimized. Chances are it's going to be well optimized.

2. MS and Sony can always throw more money at their platforms to beat out the hardware specs of their competitors, but that's not fiscally sound strategy since both of them are loosing money.

3. The Steambox isn't locked system, so that means that over time they can just continue to come out with new versions with better hardware specs and they would never have to wait for a console generation to end to put out their Steambox. In the mean time if MS and Sony stick to their guns, they'll come into the market with rocking machines, that after a few years will start to show their age, and eventually the steambox will end up with better specs.



> That's why I mentioned the Piston earlier. Performance-wise it doesn't seem too competitive for next-gen, but price-wise it should be expensive.



The Piston is more powerful than a Wii U, and it's probably at a lower price point over the "delux" model.

Honestly you could probably break even on the Piston at around $100 if you could made a few million of them.

As your repeat manufacturing runs the parts and costs of components decreases continuously because you can get better deals components and make products more efficiently if you make the same product enough times. 

Just me, on my own, shopping online for components, I could build you a Better PC than the Piston for about $300, and you might spend as much as $1,000 buying the same PC from a retailer like Bestbuy. But you know what else. The one I'd make for you it wouldn't as streamlined as the Piston, it wouldn't have the small form factor, and you wouldn't want to put it in your living room and hook it directly up to your TV.

If you made a few million "Pistons", you could probably get to cost on that down to a about $100 manufacture. And then if you had Gabe Newell subsidizing you $50 on each Piston just to get them on the shelves, you can sell the Piston's at $100, and just keep Gabe's $50 as your profit. And now you have $100 PC for sale, which is basically a dedicated gaming console, that is on par in hardware Specs with the Wii U.

In business, the "winner" is the most competitive. Whatever provides you the best value for your dollar is what your going to spend your money on.



> Anyway, their controller solution combined with biometrics and this streaming, server idea sound exciting.



Yep.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 10, 2013)

Inuhanyou said:


> I always wondered where those steam sale profits went. Obviously at those ridiculously low prices the devs and pubs aren't getting a cut.



Actually the other way around most of the time. Valve gives up their cut to do the Steam Sales most of the time, and sometimes the developer givers up some too, and sometimes it's a mix. The developers still make money on every sale. From Valves prespective there is a value in gamers being logged on Steam, playing games on steam, because that makes them more likely customers for other services Steam Provides, which enables them to make more money.

Personally my Steam Account has been worth about $200 for Valve so far in sales, but I know people who've spent over $1,000 on the Steam Library.



> Why would they be interested in developing for a strict steam box if Valve is trying to push it as a dedicated piece of hardware?



That is a falsely framed question.

Actually all of the games that you'll play on the "Steam Box" are actually PC games. In fact you can get all the advantages of the "Steam Box" by Steam's new "Big Picture Mode" Which basically streams a video feed from your PC with Steam Installed your Television.

What the "Steam Box" actually is, is a "turn key" solution for people who do not already own a PC capable of running games and streaming to our TV. The "Steam Box" for that reason really can't be properly thought of as a "console". 

It is a PC that is optimized for running games that you can connect to your TV.

Because the "Steam Box" it is a PC it doesn't not require any additional resourced to be dedicated to making "Steam Box" version of of the game that is proprietary to "Steam Box". It will run the exact same version of the game. It requires no extra work on part of developers.



> When 90% of the game industry's profits goes toward consoles, its going to have a tough time. What's good for you is definitely not good for me



1. That is only true with Microsoft and Sony. Nintendo breaks even or makes a profit on every console sold

2. Microsoft and Sony have been making a profit on their consoles for years now when they sell them because the specs haven't changed much and the hardware is outdated.

3. Your way of thinking about this market has changed. X-Box live Gold Membership rakes in lots of cash for Microsoft because people are too dumb to realize you can rightfully get all of that stuff for free anywhere else.

Sony's Playstation+ gives subscribers an instant game library with a rotating catalog of 18 full games for $15 and Sony has been making money on it by getting people to subscribe.

They make a lot of money on subscribers.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 10, 2013)

Now this is some old news, but in June 2012 European Court of Justice ruled that resale of digital items was "legal". In Europe selling your steam account and all of your games is perfectly legal.

In the US this is not the case, but if it were challenged in court it might not stand.

But this actually incentive for developers to make games for PC and distribute through steam. The service locks games to your personal steam account and would make resale impossible. If I were Gamestop I would not want "Steam Box" to succeed.

But, this would also put pressure on Sony and Microsoft to set up their consoles in such a way that games would not bind to your account or your local machine. If reselling your games is only possible on Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony consoles that actually gives them a sort of advantage.

We already know that Steam is going to be more competitive on the price of games though, and they will have a much bigger game library than those consoles can offer.


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## Bungee Gum (Jan 10, 2013)

End of console gaming? No, not for as long as japan has huge gaming companies.

People also like having 1 single console that doesn't need to be upgraded or changed for 6+ years, thats why the console market exists in the first place. There is a reason people don't want to go into pc gaming besides it being expensive, they don't want to deal witht he hassle of upgrading every 2 or 3 years if they want to play that brand new graphical game on anything but the lowest settings. 

This makes it easier, but it still wouldn't destroy console gaming, especially when it's steam vs xbox ps4 and nintendo


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## Naruto (Jan 10, 2013)

Whoever loses, we win. Competition is good for the customer.


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## αshɘs (Jan 10, 2013)

strongarm85 said:


> If you made a few million "Pistons", you could probably get to cost on that down to a about $100 manufacture. And then if you had Gabe Newell subsidizing you $50 on each Piston just to get them on the shelves, you can sell the Piston's at $100, and just keep Gabe's $50 as your profit. And now you have $100 PC for sale, which is basically a dedicated gaming console, that is on par in hardware Specs with the Wii U.



Well, the Piston is supposed to be based on the X7A which is around 1000$. If they can afford to bring the price down to what you say, then wow.



Goova said:


> End of console gaming? No, not for as long as japan has huge gaming companies.
> 
> People also like having 1 single console that doesn't need to be upgraded or changed for *6+ years*, thats why the console market exists in the first place. There is a reason people don't want to go into pc gaming besides it being expensive, they don't want to deal witht he hassle of upgrading every 2 or 3 years if they want to play that brand new graphical game on anything but the lowest settings.
> 
> This makes it easier, but it still wouldn't destroy console gaming, especially when it's steam vs xbox ps4 and nintendo



Not sure that many people want to put up with that again  I know a lot of people already wanted this gen to end years ago and the constant complains about poor performances don't help either.


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## Inuhanyou (Jan 10, 2013)

Microsoft warns  Valve of the dangers of the console business.

Can't say he's wrong though, if they want to make a console esque PC to target console gamers, they are going to have to market it to console gamers, if they don't do that, its not going to be successful.

It took decades of today's players to reach where they are marketshare wise. Its gonna take some serious investment and more than putting a box out on shelves(if retailers even take it)


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## Bungee Gum (Jan 10, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Well, the Piston is supposed to be based on the X7A which is around 1000$. If they can afford to bring the price down to what you say, then wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure that many people want to put up with that again  I know a lot of people already wanted this gen to end years ago and the constant complains about poor performances don't help either.



Yet most of those people complain without doing much at all


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## αshɘs (Jan 10, 2013)

Well, it's not like they can do lot. If they want to play their exclusives then their hands are tied to consoles. With multiplat titles there's a chance with PC, but yeah it's not convenient for everyone. Maybe Valve's solution will be tempting for some. Anyway, my response was aimed at the long console cycle part. 


^^ Yeah, Harrison's right, but it's not like Valve will be all bells and whistles and will target the same scale as them. I can't see them doing that. Like with everything Valve, it's going to start out slowly and we'll see from there on out.



> "They can be successful at small scale."



I think Valve would be satisfied with this, as long as they can expand their Steam userbase imo. 

I wonder, how are the Alienwares doing in terms of sales? Is it something Valve can target, for a start?


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## Death-kun (Jan 10, 2013)

I wonder, do you think this will have a disc drive, or will it be purely digital? I know I would want a disk drive for the sole purpose of being able to buy physical limited editions. I know that for most PC games once you insert the disk you're able to add and download the game to Steam so you don't have to use the disk anymore iirc, but yeah.


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## strongarm85 (Jan 11, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> Well, the Piston is supposed to be based on the X7A which is around 1000$. If they can afford to bring the price down to what you say, then wow.



Yeah, but X7A is Retail. Retail Markup is significant. The X7A also has disk drives the piston doesn't have. The smaller form factor means the materials will actually cost less in large production runs too.



Goova said:


> End of console gaming? No, not for as long as japan has huge gaming companies.
> 
> People also like having 1 single console that doesn't need to be upgraded or changed for 6+ years, thats why the console market exists in the first place. There is a reason people don't want to go into pc gaming besides it being expensive, they don't want to deal witht he hassle of upgrading every 2 or 3 years if they want to play that brand new graphical game on anything but the lowest settings.
> 
> This makes it easier, but it still wouldn't destroy console gaming, especially when it's steam vs xbox ps4 and nintendo



I would make two points:

1. There are millions of people who will spend $300 every year on the latest iPhone, and they've done it 6 times in a row, with each new phone only being marginally better than the last.

For people who don't own PCs, the Steambox is a relatively inexpensive turn-key solution.

2. Most games that come out today still don't have minimum hardware specs that are that crazy. We've reached a point in game design where you can develop a high graphical quality game and still not use that many resources. There really aren't any games out there that even max out the hardware limitations of the PS3, which is 8 years old hardware at this point.

Cyrsis 3 looks like it'll be the game to do it.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qFLtnSqS6Y#![/YOUTUBE]

Again, that's 8 years old hardware.

It'll be years before a game comes out that maxes out my Gaming PC. I'm likely to replace the hardware in it in the mean time upgrade it further anyways from simple wear and tear for being in use for that many years.


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## αshɘs (Mar 5, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21677119



> Gabe Newell: "The main thing that's holding us up... we have a couple of different controllers prototypes we're using"
> 
> Valve expects to offer prototypes of its upcoming video games console for testing within four months time.





> "We're working with partners trying to nail down how fast we can make it," Mr Newell told the BBC.
> 
> "We'll be giving out some prototypes to customers to gauge their reactions, I guess, in the next three to four months.
> 
> ...


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## Gunners (Mar 5, 2013)

People are treating this seriously/ I see failure written all over it.


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## dream (Mar 5, 2013)

There is a good chance that it will end up as a failure.


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## strongarm85 (Mar 5, 2013)

New ideas should never be overlooked. A lot of times people don't realize how great the new shiny thing is until they get it in their hands. Besides Gabe Newell has a history of making big waves and making big bets that pay off. When he moves it's a good idea to watch and listen.


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## αshɘs (Mar 5, 2013)

I liked the part where the reporter asks him about the 20% decline in sales in the gaming industry and Gabe's like "well we had an 50% growth actually"

lol


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## αshɘs (Mar 9, 2013)

lol, good luck with that price

But I think the journos got it wrong and Piston is not a Steambox, but just a collab. Doesn't fit in the 3 tiers Gabe listed. For this kind of price it should be "best", but the performance is "good" at most.

I think Valve's "better" tier, codenamed Bigfoot is going to be the first Steambox and others will probably follow.


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## αshɘs (Mar 12, 2013)

> It had been believed that Valve had backed the grapefruit-sized computer ahead of the release of its own Steam Box, but this appears to be false.
> 
> Valve's Doug Lombardi told Eurogamer that Valve had some dealings with Xi3 Corporation, the company behind the Piston, but not any more.
> 
> "Valve began some exploratory work with Xi3 last year, but currently has no involvement in any product of theirs," he said.



well, good thing they clarified this, though maybe should have done sooner. Some people were already getting the wrong idea...


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## Death-kun (Mar 12, 2013)

Alright, so the Piston is not Valve's own Steambox. Thank goodness.


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## Violent by Design (Mar 12, 2013)

So is Valve not making their own console anymore?



Also, I dont see why people would be so negative, why wouldn't someone welcome a new console into the market (especially when we only have 1 or 2 generations before home consoles are more or less gone).


If this was done by Valve, or heavily backed, then yes, it could become a major player quite easily. Valve isn't a huge company like Microsoft or Sony, but they do have a ton of resources, money and unlike other companies that jump into gaming - they have a huge core fan base (and a very loyal one). They're also a first party developer who make quality games, and easily expand their studio at will (something that Microsoft did not have yet it did not stop them from their success). 

Valve could make exclusives for the console if they so chose (def a ton of semi exclusives with PC/Piston attributes would be guaranteed, similar to Xbox/PC and PS3/Vita type of deals). They would have almost the entire indie market backing them, especially if the console was open sourced. They already have big name developers as allies since guys like EA, Ubisoft, Sega, 2k, Capcom all had to jump in Steam in order to compete (this would be no different realistically since the console will run Steam).

So it will probably have the best third party support, or at least the most multi platforms (at least on paper), with games that you could not play on the other homeconsoles (which essentially make them exclusives).

Graphically, these consoles would be next gen, and they would likely offer keyboard support as well (spec wise they would be around the Wii-U while likely being cheaper). There would then be constant upgrades, which will annoy gamers because many gamers are really ignorant when it comes to technology and not realize that it is a good thing. Like someone said, it is similar to a new iphone being released (mobile devices is likely what sparked these ideas), you choose to upgrade every 3 or 4 years just to get new graphics and stuff. Not like one would have to get every upgrade (for instance, I do not upgrade my Iphone 4 to a 5, since there is not that big of a difference between them, but someone who has an Iphone 2 or 3 might want to make that investment).

And no, people do not buy consoles so they can play the same system for 7 years. They play consoles because they are too intimidated (not that they do not know how, since it does not require any extensive knowledge) to use their PC or make one(obviously things like brand name, certain ips, tradition, controllers play a part in it as well). A Microconsole is still a console, it is premade as opposed too homemade, and they would be cheap (since they would likely be made with old parts), so you are combining the best of both worlds.

If this thing were to take off and be a success. You would essentially have a new console out do the PS4 spec wise in 4 or 5 years for a much cheaper price. Plus, like a computer, games would likely run on the older models regardless, so no one would get left out even if they had exclusive models.

Of course, this is just me analyzing, I know very little about the Piston and have not kept up with it, but it is common sense to see that it has a lot of potential, and could possibly make the 3 way console war into a 4 man.


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## Death-kun (Mar 12, 2013)

Valve is still making their own Steambox, I'm excited to see what it's going to be like. Making PC gaming more accessible is an interesting thing to watch.


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## Corruption (Mar 12, 2013)

Some people are negative because it's not really a console. It's a PC with a different form factor. I'm not sure about Valve's Steam Box, but I doubt this will be a success. A $1000 "console" isn't going to appeal to most console gamers.

As far as Valve goes, are they still planning on releasing the Steam Box with Linux? I don't see how that's currently a viable option with the lack of games supported. I know Gabe said there would be an option to install Windows, but if these are shipped with just Linux, I think a lot of people will be disappointed with what they get. Unless they somehow get a lot more games supported before this launches.


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## αshɘs (Mar 12, 2013)

VbD, read my previous posts, and you'll get an idea about Valve's intentions





as for the Piston. Lombardi has clarified it that it's not a Steambox. They invested in the company before (probably were looking at form factor-performance prototypes), but they're not associated anymore.

Also, its performance-price ratio is atrocious. Not only is it not high-end (they market it that way), it's basically a middle tier (or lower) AMD APU without a discrete GPU. You're going to be better off with consoles or better PCs. The size, form factor bumps its price up, nothing else.



			
				VdB said:
			
		

> Valve could make exclusives for the console if they so chose



I can't see them doing this. Steambox is going to be a (HT)PC with console form factor. Maybe if they make Half-Life 3 an SteamOS (still have no idea what Linux-based OS they'll come up with) exclusive it could work, but that would alienate their PC base.



			
				VdB said:
			
		

> They already have big name developers as allies since guys like EA, Ubisoft,



EA is moving more and more towards Origin, while Ubisoft is doing the same with Uplay. Not only that, but Steambox is going to be Linux-based. And,well, there's not an awful lot of games on that atm. Especially not high-profile games. So Valve either come up with an emolution solution that doesn't take a lot of performance or they convince the publishers to natively port games to Linux. The option "you can install Windows on it" won't convince a lot of people. 



			
				VdB said:
			
		

> (spec wise they would be around the Wii-U while likely being cheaper)



They better not be WiiU level. It's performance is on par with 6 year old hardware if anything's to be believed Price-wise Gabe mentioned their solution is targeted at 300$, but if they want a betetr performance I doubt anyone would be bothered if it ends up at around 400-500$.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 12, 2013)

Xi3 Piston is not Steambox? Thank God, because the thing is retardedly weak. For 1k$ I get get much better performance if I custom build my own PC.

//HbS


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## αshɘs (Mar 12, 2013)

I looked up more about the Piston and this was actually a failed Kickstarter project from last year 



also, TB shares his thoughts about the Piston from 0:45 to 7:47 with some benchmark results. (It seems during the making if this vid he didn't know Valve distanced themselves from the project, so he still regards this as SB.)


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## αshɘs (Mar 13, 2013)

Xi3's CEO responded



> "We reaffirm the fact that we received an investment from Valve Corporation (as we previously disclosed during the 2013 International CES trade show), and we did so with Valve's written permission.
> 
> "Second, we were asked to build a product specifically for Valve, and both companies showcased this product - the Piston Console - in their respective booths at CES 2013.
> 
> ...


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## Jake CENA (Mar 13, 2013)

Piston?? Sounds just like sex. :ho


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## Death-kun (Mar 13, 2013)

What I wonder about is if the Steambox will have a disc drive or not or if it will be purely digital, since PC games these days usually have a Steam code inside the box or can simply be added to the Steam library after installing the game. The problem is that without a disc drive for the disc you can't exactly install anything lol.


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## Hunted by sister (Mar 13, 2013)

Probably no drive, but there is nothing stopping you from plugging one in with USB.

//HbS


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## Death-kun (Mar 13, 2013)

Hmmm that's true as well, I forgot about external disc drives. One can only hope they'll be supported, though I don't see why they wouldn't be.


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## Violent by Design (Mar 13, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> I can't see them doing this. Steambox is going to be a (HT)PC with console form factor. Maybe if they make Half-Life 3 an SteamOS (still have no idea what Linux-based OS they'll come up with) exclusive it could work, but that would alienate their PC base.


Well like I said, the option would be there. Even the Ouya is getting exclusives, so there's really no reason to think that the Steambox wouldn't.

They could make new IPs, or make spinoffs of existing ones, like when Valve made Half Life: Blue Shift. Obviously something like Half Life 3 is going to be a  PC game. 





> EA is moving more and more towards Origin, while Ubisoft is doing the same with Uplay.


Well, it is theirs, but they're still going to sell their products on STEAM. They would be fools not too. Hardly anyone uses Origin and less use Uplay.



> Not only that, but Steambox is going to be Linux-based. And,well, there's not an awful lot of games on that atm.


It's obviously going to be a heavily customized OS.



> The option "you can install Windows on it" won't convince a lot of people.


 They could try putting an actual windows installer on it, like an app of sorts, but I really doubt the Linux system is going to have little gaming support. Why would someone make a gaming console that can hardly run the games that Valve/steam has access too?





> They better not be WiiU level. It's performance is on par with 6 year old hardware if anything's to be believed Price-wise Gabe mentioned their solution is targeted at 300$, but if they want a betetr performance I doubt anyone would be bothered if it ends up at around 400-500$.



"It's performance" - who is it?


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## αshɘs (Mar 13, 2013)

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have a disc drive. 



Violent By Design said:


> Well like I said, the option would be there. Even the Ouya is getting exclusives, so there's really no reason to think that the Steambox wouldn't.
> 
> They could make new IPs, or make spinoffs of existing ones, like when Valve made Half Life: Blue Shift. Obviously something like Half Life 3 is going to be a  PC game.



now that I think about it, they can't separate Steambox from PC, since both will be running Steam. It's the same platform. Even if there are different OS versions of it, it's still Steam in the end. Anyone who owns a PC and plugs it on TV basically owns a Steambox. They'll want to expand their userbase, not divide it.



> Well, it is theirs, but they're still going to sell their products on STEAM. They would be fools not too. Hardly anyone uses Origin and less use Uplay.



You can only buy games like ME3, DS3, Crysis 3, BF3 on Origin. Battlefield alone is a pretty good incentive to use it. It's safe to say it's going to be the same for DA3, BF4, ME4 and other high-profile game of theirs.

With Ubisoft you can actually buy their games on Steam, but you still have to launch Uplay to play the games.

EA's CEO said they could be interested in SB, but Valve haven't approached them about it yet.



> It's obviously going to be a heavily customized OS.
> 
> They could try putting an actual windows installer on it, like an app of sorts, but I really doubt the Linux system is going to have little gaming support. Why would someone make a gaming console that can hardly run the games that Valve/steam has access too?



maybe it will, but they still have to port or emulate games on that. Here's some speculation on the OS.

I can't see them putting a Win installer on it. They would have to pay license fees. Doubt they want to do that.

The thing is, when this thing launches, people will expect the full steam catalogue to run on it without problems. Carmack said, Valve should focus on emulation instead of convincing devs to port their games over. We'll see. I'm sure Valve have something figured out...I just can't see them starting this product with "well, devs will bring their games to this eventually, but till then enjoy the 80 games on it so far, lol"

In the end I think the biggest concern is regarding the bigger, heavy hitter games, since more and more indies are bringing their games to Linux.



> "It's performance" - who is it?



WiiU.


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## αshɘs (Sep 16, 2013)

maybe we get some announcement next week, though knowing Valve...



also here's a footage from his keynote


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 16, 2013)

Gabecube still happening?


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## αshɘs (Sep 20, 2013)

well, something's going to happen soon:


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 20, 2013)

It's happening, ^ (use bro).


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## αshɘs (Sep 20, 2013)

> Here we go: Valve just emailed me to say it will make three (3) announcements next week.


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 20, 2013)

It's triple happening. Gabecube, game sharing and Episode 3.


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## αshɘs (Sep 20, 2013)

so, it's probably going to be 1 announcement per day, starting with Monday


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## dream (Sep 20, 2013)

Half-Life 3 announcement?  I remove to believe it until I see it.


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## Death-kun (Sep 20, 2013)

Thank you based Gabe.


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## dream (Sep 20, 2013)

It is more than likely just going to be announcements regarding their plans to move into the living room.  Let's not start thanking/praising Gabe yet.


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## αshɘs (Sep 20, 2013)

Expecting OS, toolset, framework, box, stream, features, controller type stuff or something like that. And probably a public beta announcement? Gabe said back in march they'll have multiple prototypes lined up. Don't really expect any game. Though maybe if they want to show off some linux stuff and features, they might reveal Source 2.

I think when it comes to their own steambox, a streaming device + controller (+other peripherial like biometrics and apparently they're working on their own VR headset) would probably make more sense. I still can't imagine how they'd put together a competent gaming rig with good price/performance ratio.

But we'll see.

edit: family sharing beta should start soon too



Dream said:


> Half-Life 3 announcement?  I remove to believe it until I see it.



If they're going to reveal a game, I think L4D3 is more likely, given all the rumors and hints so far. Remember Valve want to experiment with biometrics and L4D AI Director was more then once brought up regarding that. Not to mention their focus on multiplayer and community contribution.


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 20, 2013)

Dream said:


> Half-Life 3 announcement?  I remove to believe it until I see it.



Dude, they started a 3 day countdown to make 3 separate announcements.

READ BETWEEN THE LINES, THE GOLDEN AGE IS UPON US.


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## Death-kun (Sep 20, 2013)

I can't help but feel that the number 3 has some sort of meaning...


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## Deathbringerpt (Sep 20, 2013)

The cat also has 3 whiskers and the controller has 3 buttons. It looks like Valve got really tired of the question and it's announcing it, full baitforce.


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## dream (Sep 20, 2013)

αshɘs said:


> If they're going to reveal a game, I think L4D3 is more likely, given all the rumors and hints so far. Remember Valve want to experiment with biometrics and L4D AI Director was more then once brought up regarding that. Not to mention their focus on multiplayer and community contribution.



It's certainly possible.  



Deathbringerpt said:


> Dude, they started a 3 day countdown to make 3 separate announcements.
> 
> READ BETWEEN THE LINES, THE GOLDEN AGE IS UPON US.



So much false hope.


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## Charlotte D. Kurisu (Sep 20, 2013)

With Xbone and PS4 losing a bit of steam lately(just my feel), the timing could not have been any better for this. 

I swear if this shit is open-sourced and we can emulate up to PS2 games or some shit within the first few months I will be happy.


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## αshɘs (Sep 21, 2013)

just to speculate a bit, if we look at the three buttons on the page:

o - I think this is probably Steam. What they plan with Steam Linux.
[o ] - Steam in a box? So, the hardware announcement goes here.
o+o - shared or duplicated steam? aka family sharing or streaming?


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## Jake CENA (Sep 21, 2013)

*Spoiler*: __ 





Apple bought Steam!


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