# G4 Luffy vs Diamond Jozu



## Finalbeta (Apr 23, 2015)

Distance: 40 m 

Location: New World

Restrictions: None

Luffy is current, Jozu is from marine ford

Scenario 1: Jozu lost his arm
Scenario 2: Jozu has both his arms

Bonus Scenario: G4 Luffy has got Hody's steroids and 100 shadows , he fights Aokiji from Water Seven Arc, if he loses, add current Sabo to Luffy


----------



## Bohemian Knight (Apr 23, 2015)

I still give Jozu the edge, but giving Luffy all that shit in the bonus scenario is just too much, Sabo or not


----------



## Bernkastel (Apr 23, 2015)

Given the blunt weakness Jozu has Luffy should win with G4. 
Bonus scenario Luffy wins.


----------



## ShadoLord (Apr 23, 2015)

Luffy is not going to bypass Jozu's diamond+haki defenses. Jozu mid-diff although G4 Luffy is really, really impressive with his speed being able to nearly blitzed Doflamingo with a kick, and the strength to kick/punch Doflamingo about 1/4 the island total distance(?). Although Jozu might be even faster as he manage to blitzed Aokiji just before he notice and turn completely to his ice form. If not for the diamond defenses, then Luffy would have a chance of beating him.


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu mid-diffs. 
His level of Haki is still quite a bit superior, and he's still got the diamond fruit to support him defensively.
I still reckon Jozu has quite a bit more physical strength behind his attacks, too.


Nothing has really changed.


----------



## Harard (Apr 23, 2015)

So people are finally coming to terms that Jozu is probably stronger than Doflamingo?


----------



## Coruscation (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu wins, I don't see Luffy getting the portrayal he did against an Admiral or Mihawk, or being one of the elite top 3 on one side in the greatest battle of the entire bloody Great Pirate Age. Just nah. In terms of speed Luffy prolly wins although Jozu's reflexes and combat speed are enough to toe to toe w/ Aokiji. In terms of strength Jozu takes it by an absolutely massive amount. In striking force they might be kinda sorta even, it's Jozu's insane muscle, diamond reinforcement and no doubt superior COA vs. Gear 4th's retraction and release power. Jozu has way stronger defenses however. But Luffy is getting closer and closer. Jozu would most likely require at least mid diff I imagine and quite possibly high. We've yet to see how Luffy's fight with Mingo proceeds and we don't quite know how Mingo measures up to Jozu either though I am comfortable in sticking with my year old viewpoint that Jozu is superior to the stringman.


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Apr 23, 2015)

Extreme difficulty either way.


----------



## Nurito (Apr 23, 2015)

I'm feeling Jozu high diff for now.


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu tanked a slash from Mihawk, threw a mountain of ice, and fought Aokiji head on for quite a while, only losing his arm when he got distracted. He's outright stronger than Luffy is physically, and his Haki is probably the same or a little better. 

Going to say Jozu, mid-high difficulty , but if he fights without his diamond form, I can see Luffy pulling off an extreme difficulty victory.


----------



## savior2005 (Apr 23, 2015)

jozu high diff. i still put a healthy no pis/cis doflamingo over g4 luffy.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 23, 2015)

Harard said:


> So people are finally coming to terms that Jozu is probably stronger than Doflamingo?



How so? Dofla fodderized Jozu


----------



## Atlas (Apr 23, 2015)

Doffy was able to parasite Jozu but not Luffy, what does that tell you?


----------



## Luke (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu mid diff. 

People are seriously overhyping G4.


----------



## Tenma (Apr 23, 2015)

Depends on several things that have yet to come to fruition.

1. How much difficulty Luffy will have beating DD
2. How injured DD is compared to Luffy and the extent they will hinder him later in the fight.

Either way, DD is at least as strong as Jozu IMO so he's not winning this without high diff at least. On the other hand Luffy should need at least high diff to beat Jozu even in the best case. More than likely when the fight finishes the consensus should be somewhere in between.


----------



## Tenma (Apr 23, 2015)

Luffy is a bad matchup though.

Extremely hard blunt force blows (good against Jozu) + a higher level of Haki mastery than what Jozu has shown + Armor that can no sell mid level moves from DD means that there is no way Jozu wins this easily.

Basically, Luffy is basically Jozu now, except Jozu is weak to blunt force while Luffy is nearly immune, in a fight where both fighters will be dishing out nothing else.


----------



## tanman (Apr 23, 2015)

Until I see how this fight goes, I'm going to say Jozu with extreme difficulty.
Also, I hate that I have to say this, but: there's a good chance Luffy will be forced to go back to base and, even before that, Doflamingo is obviously going to turn the tables in the upcoming chapters.

There's a lot more to this fight. A fresh Luffy is almost certainly not beating a fresh Doflamingo in a fair fight, even with G4 in play. 

I believe Doflamingo and Jozu are roughly equivalent fighters. However, they have opposite skillsets. Dofla is a balanced physical fighter with a style concentrated on a special ability, and Jozu is pure muscle. Luffy is a mix. In a fight, Dofla has the brains and an ability that gives him an advantage over Jozu.


----------



## Dr. White (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu gets pushed to solid mid diff from what we've seen of G4 so far, I see the fight going to the lower end of High Diff and Luffy either being to damaged/tired to maintain the form, or Jozu going Diamond Modo and just winning out with his ace.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 23, 2015)

Luke said:


> Jozu mid diff.
> 
> People are seriously overhyping G4.



This

G4 is actually less powerful than G3, just faster and more flexible

That doesnt help him against a diamond man


----------



## Yuki (Apr 23, 2015)

Inb4 Luffy breaks out of Parasite next chapter with pure strength.


----------



## ShadoLord (Apr 23, 2015)

How is G4 weaker than G3 in strength? It's literally G3 but compressed it smaller into his hand, it should have much more power than G3. One hit from it sent Doflamingo about 1/4~1/5 the distance of Dressrosa in matters of seconds. It literally sent Doflamingo silly.


----------



## HisMajestyMihawk (Apr 23, 2015)

Juvia. said:


> Inb4 Luffy breaks out of Parasite next chapter with pure strength.



i will openly admit im wrong if this ever came to happen


----------



## Deleted member 211714 (Apr 23, 2015)

If anything, CoC is going to break through Parasite.


----------



## Grimsley (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu still wins.


----------



## Empathy (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu mid or high difficulty (lower end at best). Doflamingo I don't think is as strong as Jozu, but I think he's pretty close (I think he's in between Vista and Jozu in strength). Doflamingo's been nearly killed by Law's hax and took a combination of attacks from them, and yet he's still putting up a fight against Luffy. Luffy's attacks aren't doing anything to Jozu's level of defense when he can chuck top tier attacks in the air. Jozu's attacks are much stronger than Luffy's (imagine the reaction Luffy punched an admiral and drew blood). Luffy's also outclassed in terms of _Haki_ mastery. At the moment, it's still doubtful that Luffy could win against Doflamingo without Law's help, even with his new mode. And when Doflamingo is confronted by the prospect of an admiral or Yonkou, he bends to their will (rightfully so, and that's not a demerit to his character). Jozu at least warrants more effort from an admiral, and was the left-hand man on the world's strongest crew of an entire era. Right now, Luffy's lucky if he'd beat Vista (which would still be quite an upgrade from Ace-level, where he previously was).


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu is the most overhyped character in the manga. He blocked a casual mihawk's slash, the same mihawk who failed to defeat a weakened g2 Luffy despite telling him he wouldn't hold back. He punched crocodile and didn't do significant damage, and got outmanuevered by Dofla. 

What in the fucking world could Jozu do to even put a dent into g4 Luffy? He punched Ao Kiji in the face from the blindside and barely made his lip bleed.

Wait...person above me...you think if Luffy attacked an admiral in g4 while the admiral wasn't looking he wouldn't draw blood?...lord help me. Pre-skip Luffy drew blood from Garp when Garp didn't have his defenses up...

g4 Luffy punch sends Dofla across island (while defending against it fully)

g4 Luffy punch doesn't even make admiral bleed (while looking other way and not paying attention)

You think Admirals are way stronger than they actually are if that logic makes any sense to you.

To make it easier actually, do you think Dofla's attack that Luffy shrugged off last chapter wouldn't make an admirals lip bleed if it hit them full on while they weren't paying attention or using haki defenses?


----------



## Empathy (Apr 23, 2015)

Green Monkey said:


> Jozu is the most overhyped character in the manga. He blocked a casual mihawk's slash, the same mihawk who failed to defeat a weakened g2 Luffy despite telling him he wouldn't hold back. He punched crocodile and didn't do significant damage, and got outmanuevered by Dofla.
> 
> What in the fucking world could Jozu do to even put a dent into g4 Luffy? He punched Ao Kiji in the face from the blindside and barely made his lip bleed.
> 
> ...



I'm sure that Luffy could draw blood if they were completely defenseless and just stood there. I don't think that was the case with Aokiji and Jozu, though. Aokiji was probably using _Haki_ to defend against Whitebeard. He saw Jozu's attack before it hit him and he wouldn't have retained his logia form if he didn't mount any sort of _Haki_ defense. He also would've gotten a lot worse than a busted lip and been sent flying a lot further if he was hit completely clean, given all the physical strength Jozu has. It'd be unfitting of an admiral if Aokiji was completely unable to react and defend against an attack he clearly noticed; it'd also be just as unbecoming of one of the best on the world's strongest pirate crew if he could only manage a bloody lip on a defenseless opponent. Mihawk was trying to gauge the strength disparity between himself and the strongest man on the planet; instead his attack was stopped by the third-strongest guy on the crew. 

There isn't any reason at all to assume Mihawk purposefully threw a weak slash directed at Whitebeard to measure his own strength. Would Luffy also be able to chuck Mihawk's slash in the air, since we're arbitrarily equating all his feats to Jozu's? I bet pre-skip Luffy could do it too, since Luffy even bested Jozu's feat of making an admiral bleed by making Garp bleed way more, instead of Garp just taking a dive. The strongest Yonkou sure has a shoddy crew, when his second-best crew-mate is outdone by pre-skip Luffy. Luffy really should've given Jozu pointers in attacking admirals. But you can't fault Jozu for having weaker attacks than pre-skip Luffy, when even Mihawk was completely powerless to defeat Luffy, just as you said. You know, you and I really shouldn't spare Mihawk from this chastising either. Even though Jozu can't do significant damage to Crocodile, not only can Mihawk not beat pre-skip Luffy, but Crocodile clashed with Mihawk and Mihawk accomplished far less than even piss-weak Jozu did against Crocodile. 

You would think Mihawk should be stronger than Jozu, but he did worse against Crocodile and even worse than that—he had his slash blocked by Jozu, who can't even make an admiral bleed as much as pre-skip Luffy can. Mihawk and Jozu are even furthered embarrassed by pre-skip Luffy when you remember how Alabasta Luffy defeated Crocodile. I also find it funny how when Jozu injures an admiral, it's only because he completely blindsided him and he was caught off-guard, so it wasn't fair; but yet it's a detriment to Jozu when Doflamingo does nearly the same thing with him. It's not like I said Jozu would give Luffy a wedgie and take his lunch money. I said that Luffy had the potential to give Jozu even high difficulty—and this is a guy who can give even an admiral a fight. Luffy's just exceeded in nearly all of his areas of expertise by Jozu, though.

*Edit:* Seriously, it's not like an admirals skin is made of titanium even when they're not using _Haki_. If Garp took a knife and tried to stab himself without using any defense, the knife wouldn't just bounce off his skin and fold like an accordion. We saw one of the weakest characters in the series, fucking axe-hand Morgan cut him when he fell asleep and wasn't guarding himself with anything. The same would happen with Isshou or any other admiral if they were tangible. If Jozu really hit Aokiji while he was completely unguarded with _Haki_ and only busted his lip, then he might as well have threw a pillow at him, because it makes his punch weaker than pre-skip Luffy's and even axe-hand Morgan. So of course Luffy would draw a lot of blood from Garp when he doesn't use any _Haki_ to defend himself and just lets Luffy hit him clean.


----------



## Gohara (Apr 23, 2015)

Luffy wins with high to extremely high difficulty, IMO.  Luffy is fighting on par with Doflamingo, who has better portrayal than Jozu.


----------



## savior2005 (Apr 23, 2015)

the only way g4 beats jozu is if law weakens him first, like the current doflamingo fight. there is NO way in hell that luffy and flamingo were injured the same amount. flamingo clearly took much more damage in his previous fight compared to luffy.

also, doflamingo=jozu imo.


----------



## Tenma (Apr 23, 2015)

Jozu has that iceberg feat which Zoro has one-upped and Luffy can do much better logically.

Jozu made Aokiji bleed slightly which is only impressive if you place the Admirals on this super-untouchable 'can solo all 11 Supernovas and the Strawhats and DD's crew' pedestal. Luffy, Zoro and Sanji can all easily hurt an Admiral if they get a free hit on their face.

Jozu fought on par with Aokiji for a while which technically Luffy hasn't done but given Luffy is about to beat DD who is >=Jozu I think it is time to reconsider how Luffy stacks up against an Admiral.

He blocked a Mihawk slash from several miles away but he is a diamond man, tanking slashes is literally his DF ability. Rock hard piston punches on the other hand....


----------



## Zeus. (Apr 24, 2015)

We never really properly witnessed the fight with Jozu and Aokiji. He really just served to stall and fight him for a limited amount of time. Jozu was allowed _a free hit_ to significantly injure Aokiji, but he did not have the strength to do anything of the sort. While Aokiji sealed him in one fell swoop, an attack which Jozu could not escape from. 

Still, he displayed enough feats that still overshadow Luffy's, such as stopping an enormous slash from Mihawk, and being able to tango with an Admiral.


----------



## Dunno (Apr 24, 2015)

Could go either way.


----------



## Extravlad (Apr 24, 2015)

> How is G4 weaker than G3 in strength?


If G4 was stronger than G3 in strength, Luffy wouldn't even bother using it.
G3 has more destructive power really, I actually don't see Luffy finishing Doffy with G4, he'll probably use EGG.

As for the fight Jozu wins mid difficulty.


----------



## Donquixote Doflamingo (Apr 24, 2015)

Empathy said:


> I'm sure that Luffy could draw blood if they were completely defenseless and just stood there. I don't think that was the case with Aokiji and Jozu, though. Aokiji was probably using _Haki_ to defend against Whitebeard. He saw Jozu's attack before it hit him and he wouldn't have retained his logia form if he didn't mount any sort of _Haki_ defense. He also would've gotten a lot worse than a busted lip and been sent flying a lot further if he was hit completely clean, given all the physical strength Jozu has. It'd be unfitting of an admiral if Aokiji was completely unable to react and defend against an attack he clearly noticed; it'd also be just as unbecoming of one of the best on the world's strongest pirate crew if he could only manage a bloody lip on a defenseless opponent. Mihawk was trying to gauge the strength disparity between himself and the strongest man on the planet; instead his attack was stopped by the third-strongest guy on the crew.
> 
> There isn't any reason at all to assume Mihawk purposefully threw a weak slash directed at Whitebeard to measure his own strength. Would Luffy also be able to chuck Mihawk's slash in the air, since we're arbitrarily equating all his feats to Jozu's? I bet pre-skip Luffy could do it too, since Luffy even bested Jozu's feat of making an admiral bleed by making Garp bleed way more, instead of Garp just taking a dive. The strongest Yonkou sure has a shoddy crew, when his second-best crew-mate is outdone by pre-skip Luffy. Luffy really should've given Jozu pointers in attacking admirals. But you can't fault Jozu for having weaker attacks than pre-skip Luffy, when even Mihawk was completely powerless to defeat Luffy, just as you said. You know, you and I really shouldn't spare Mihawk from this chastising either. Even though Jozu can't do significant damage to Crocodile, not only can Mihawk not beat pre-skip Luffy, but Crocodile clashed with Mihawk and Mihawk accomplished far less than even piss-weak Jozu did against Crocodile.
> 
> ...



You took his post way to seriously.


----------



## Imagine (Apr 24, 2015)

That second paragraph. What the hell am I reading


----------



## Imagine (Apr 24, 2015)

And get real guys, Luffy isn't beating Jozu


----------



## Freechoice (Apr 24, 2015)

Listen to Imagini.


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Apr 24, 2015)

Jeez, I never knew Jozu was this overrated here. There are actually people thinking that Jozu can beat Luffy mid difficulty? I must have missed something during MF battles


----------



## Lord Stark (Apr 24, 2015)

People are grossly underestimating Luffy at this point.  Let's compare feats for a second here.  

Brilliant Punk vs. Kong Gun 
Here we see Jozu blitz Crocodile, and send him flying a good deal with a single punch. Seems to send him at least from close to the Moby Dick to Doflamingo at the front of the battle lines.  




Speed: 3
Strength: 3

Crocodile was overwhelmed by his speed and the strength, but was able to recover.  Furthermore Doflamingo was able to react to his speed fairly easily as shown by his being right next to Crocodile and being able to parasite him.  

Kong Gun: 
Strength: 5
Speed: 3
Let's now look at Kong Gun. 

Doflamingo is, like Brilliant Punk, able to react to it, so they are likely of similar speeds.  However, look at its power, not only does it send Doflamingo farther than Brilliant Punk sent Crocodile, but its far faster.  Additionally, where as Crocodile didn't have time to put up a defense Doflamingo did  Not just a defense but a _armament haki defense_.  
Then, if you look, Crocodile is able to stand shortly after receiving a Brilliant Punk, where as Doflamingo, even after blocking is wheezing and coughing up blood.  

So we have a strong argument for Kong Gun to be>>Brilliant Punk in raw strength.  Now let's look at Gear 4th's speed.  While you can argue that regular G4 speed, like Jozu's speed is able to be reacted to by Doflamingo.  Its linear speed is way above it as we can see here


Doffy cannot even react to it.  

In conclusion,based on feats and portrayal, Jozu is inferior to G4 Luffy.  That being said there are likely immense drawbacks to G4 and in the long haul Jozu may hold the advantage.  But this thread is G4 vs. Jozu in the case there's no pressing time limitation for G4 there's no way in hell Jozu can win.  G4 Luffy's feats this chapter are more comparable to Marco sending Kizaru flying than anything Joz has done.


----------



## DoctorLaw (Apr 24, 2015)

It's weird to leave a thread where people are claiming Luffy would need high dif to beat Vergo, but that he could beat Jozu high dif or push Jozu to extreme. 

Jozu is definitely stronger than Luffy, I have no idea how anyone thinks Jozu's portrayal in the war can hurt his case. As a matter of fact, they showed him putting up an even fight with an admiral, only losing when he was distracted. Also, that casual slash from Mihawk was meant to gauge Whitebeard. His casual slash is probably enough to do what Zoro did to Pica. 

And lastly it's the matchup. Bad matchups have a huge hand in a lot of matters. Enel one shotted Zoro, but Luffy beat him decisively. No one in their right mind would say Zoro can get one shotted by someone Luffy can beat, but hey, matchups. Jozu was fighting on par with Aokiji, the same Aokiji that in a slightly weaker state punked Doflamingo. Doflamingo quite easily stopped Jozu. So matchups again. 

Luffy, a physical brawler, fighting a man who can become a diamond, who has Haki on a equal or superior level to Luffy, and has higher base damage? No way Luffy can win if Jozu goes diamond.

I also like Luffy, so it kills me to admit this, but he's wailing on the Doflamingo that just had his internal organs sliced up and has been figthting high tiers or higher for the past 50 chapters or so. Also, the plot is protecting Luffy, Doflamingo isn't using half his moves


----------



## Green Monkey (Apr 24, 2015)

Elite Uchiha said:


> Jeez, I never knew Jozu was this overrated here. There are actually people thinking that Jozu can beat Luffy mid difficulty? I must have missed something during MF battles



I think people imagine Jozu having some luffy vs Lucci level fight again Ao Kiji off panel when literally all we know is he wasn't stomped for x amount of time before Ao Kiji finished him off. IIRC Ao Kji didn't look very strained.


----------



## Lord Stark (Apr 24, 2015)

DoctorLaw said:


> It's weird to leave a thread where people are claiming Luffy would need high dif to beat Vergo, but that he could beat Jozu high dif or push Jozu to extreme.
> 
> Jozu is definitely stronger than Luffy, I have no idea how anyone thinks Jozu's portrayal in the war can hurt his case. As a matter of fact, they showed him putting up an even fight with an admiral, only losing when he was distracted. Also, that casual slash from Mihawk was meant to gauge Whitebeard. His casual slash is probably enough to do what Zoro did to Pica.
> 
> ...



People are saying G2 Luffy would need high difficulty to defeat Vergo, which even that I disagree with.  Vergo would be a mid diff fight for Luffy imo.  Maybe mid-high diff if you restrict G4.  G4 Luffy would low diff Vergo.


----------



## Amol (Apr 24, 2015)

Jozu is stronger than Luffy in same way DD is still stronger than Luffy.
He will probably need Mid(high) diff to beat Luffy.  Atworst High diff .


----------



## Lord Stark (Apr 24, 2015)

Amol said:


> Jozu is stronger than Luffy in same way DD is still stronger than Luffy.
> He will probably need Mid(high) diff to beat Luffy.  Atworst High diff .



Jozu has more endurance than him and in an all out he may be able to outlast Luffy.  But in terms speed and raw strength Luffy is way faster and stronger in G4.  Brilliant Punk was shrugged off by Pre-skip Crocodile, Kong Gun left Doffy on his ass for some time.


----------



## trance (Apr 24, 2015)

Croc tanking "Brilliant Punk" is likely an outlier as the same move did about the same to Kuzan yet we all know Croc is infinitely weaker than Kuzan in all areas.


----------



## Tenma (Apr 24, 2015)

Amol said:


> Jozu is stronger than Luffy in same way DD is still stronger than Luffy.
> He will probably need Mid(high) diff to beat Luffy.  Atworst High diff .



At this point it shouldn't come as a surprise if Luffy flat-out exceeds DD.

Of course, there's also a decent chance DD is still stronger, but unless Oda pulls a Bleach-style 'I was holding back all along lololol' with DD he should require high diff to beat Luffy at least. Same for Jozu (though given Jozu is a blunt force user it should logically be abit harder for him).


----------



## trance (Apr 24, 2015)

One can't forget that Doffy isn't quite in peak condition himself. Law's "Gamma Knife" did quite a bit of damage to him and though he escaped death due to his powers and quick thinking, his wounds sustained could still play a factor in his defeat. 

Remember how Luffy briefly overwhelmed Lucci with G2 before the drawbacks began to affect him?


----------



## Tenma (Apr 24, 2015)

That's why I said there's a pretty good chance DD is still stronger than Luffy (albeit although DD is more damaged, Luffy himself has taken some weakening injuries). 

But at any rate it is clear that he's not going to mid diff Luffy even in peak condition. High diff at least.


----------



## Akiji (Apr 24, 2015)

Doflamingo isn't stronger than Luffy except if he was holding back the whole time.  We'll see next chapter
Doflamingo's injured but this is the case for Luffy too.
I don't care  what you retarded wankers think "muh doffy is too stronk" ,  Doflamingo outright said luffy has weakened.
If Luffy keep stomping Doflamingo then he's stronger
denial won't change anything


----------



## Elite Uchiha (Apr 24, 2015)

Jozu's feat against Aokiji is no better than Zoro's feat against Fujitora or Ace's feat against Aokiji. Stop overrating this guy who barely hurt Pre skip Croc and was toyed with by DD.


----------



## Lord Stark (Apr 24, 2015)

Trance said:


> Croc tanking "Brilliant Punk" is likely an outlier as the same move did about the same to Kuzan yet we all know Croc is infinitely weaker than Kuzan in all areas.




Is it though?



Here's Brilliant Punk with Aokiji.  Here, even when Kuzan didn't have his guard up, he only is flung a few feet.  

Here's what Marco's attack did to Aokiji.



Here we can see not only is his sword broken in half, but he's sent flying several hundred meters.  He sends Kizaru flying like a kilometer earlier as well.  These are comparable to sending Doffy over a kilometer with his busoushoku guard up imo.  Jozu's feats are not at that level imo.  His best feat is making Aokiji's lip bleed.  If you don't think Luffy blindsided Kuzan with a Kong Gun could do that, you're deluding yourself.


----------

