# Pain vs Los Angeles



## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

Pain from Naruto fights against Los Angeles forces..

Meaning LAPD, Gangs, Criminals stuff like that.
To start things off slow... This is only DEVA pain rampaging through the city and what not. This is only Los Angeles therefore the military, or any outside party is not allow. 

If he is being too outpower then he gets all the paths.

Scenario 1: They are not expecting Pain and Pain is going to use stealth to kill.

Scenario 2: They are not going to expect Pain but Pain is not going to use stealth.
Basically both of these Scenario gives Pain the element of surprise but different tactics will be use to kill. Yes there are civilians involve and he is going to try to kill them.

Pain also can use buildings and maneuver around and to take cover if necessary.


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

as long as he doesnt start out with or use CST, he ends up full of lead


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> as long as he doesnt start out with or use CST, he ends up full of lead



What was Pain's speed and durability in the OBD?


TOo lazy to go find up the wiki.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

Pain get's sniped


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> Pain get's sniped



You know how hard it is to snipe someone...


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## Eternal Pein (Sep 25, 2010)

If he uses CST to start off he wins but sadly he doesn't seem to use that unless he gets annoyed or later after tearing apart the place thus i see the bodies getting pumped full of lead


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hollowed Shinigami said:


> If he uses CST to start off he wins but sadly he doesn't seem to use that unless he gets annoyed or later after tearing apart the place thus i see the bodies getting pumped full of lead



Well if Pain is not getting rape than the bodies are not included and is only DEVA pain who is playing the game.

Can't deva Pain repel bullets?


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

only 1 time per 5 seconds, which is more than enough time to give him lead filled organs


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Sep 25, 2010)

LAPD go Rodney King on his ass.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> only 1 time per 5 seconds, which is more than enough time to give him lead filled organs



He also can use buildings to manevuer and take cover..  he can atleast do shit like how Jet li did when he took on Gangs.


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> He also can use buildings to manevuer and take cover..  he can atleast do shit like how Jet li did when he took on Gangs.



after the mass killings they will have swat patrolling the streets, and pain is not withstanding an assult rifle


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## willyvereb (Sep 25, 2010)

This is ridiculous. It's one thing that Naruto characters aren't obvious bullet timers but seriously...think about it a little more.
I don't know how, but Pain is rated supersonic in speed. That alone makes any classic handgun useless against him. Plus with ST he has the option to blow up the area. Snipers aren't working either since if anything it leaves Pain with more time to react. The best option would be an Ak-47 from close but do the mooks even have enough time to aim? I doubt.
Pain has multitude of a normal human's speed and reflexes. He doesn't need to outspeed the bullet, simply just avoiding the aim of the gun. Try to shoot down something twice as fast as you in an FPS. Now imagine a situation ten or more times harder.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> as long as he doesnt start out with or use CST, he ends up full of lead



why" he can't nuke all of LA...every major village in naruto combined likely equals the population/size of Compton..man

he nukes a few thousand people and LA's near by military bases blow his ass to kingdom come

he does jack and shit to a modern major city...


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## Ky Hakubi (Sep 25, 2010)

Whether Pain is supersonic or not is a moot point. Supersonic>>>sound, therefore thereis absolutely NO WAY he is going to dodge a sniper round, as there isn't a chance in fucking hell he's gonna know he's being sniped, let alone know what the fuck a sniper rifle even is!

Maybe he can avoid a lot of small arms fire, but the big guns are going to fuck his shit up.

Pain goes down hard.


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## willyvereb (Sep 25, 2010)

Sniper rifles are shooting from a long distance. As long as he doesn't stand in one place he has a rather high chance to avoid being hit. Plus somehow Naruto ninjas can spot nearly soundless kunais thrown behind them. I guess they can feel the changes of wind or something like that. Perhaps it's just a theory.


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## Platinum (Sep 25, 2010)

This ends with a missile to Pain's face.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

Platinum said:


> This ends with a missile to Pain's face.



He can repel the missles.

Plus you guys are forgetting the scenarios.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why" he can't nuke all of LA...every major village in naruto combined likely equals the population/size of Compton..man
> 
> he nukes a few thousand people and LA's near by military bases blow his ass to kingdom come
> 
> he does jack and shit to a modern major city...



Is the military base directly in the L.A area?
No outside force is able to enter the battle.


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## kyrax12 (Sep 25, 2010)

Ky Hakubi said:


> Whether Pain is supersonic or not is a moot point. Supersonic>>>sound, therefore thereis absolutely NO WAY he is going to dodge a sniper round, as there isn't a chance in fucking hell he's gonna know he's being sniped, let alone know what the fuck a sniper rifle even is!
> 
> *Maybe he can avoid a lot of small arms fire, but the big guns are going to fuck his shit up.*
> 
> Pain goes down hard.



Well it depends.

Is the LAPD going to use big guns if Pain enter a Civilian heavy area?


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Sep 25, 2010)

If it's just the City if LA he has a possible chance

If it's the greater LA area, he loses.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> He can repel the missles.



he's not repelling modern weaponry at all

and yes iirc i think there is a military base in LA...hell the idiots supposedly shot at a flying saucer back in the forties from it


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> Sniper rifles are shooting from a long distance. As long as he doesn't stand in one place he has a rather high chance to avoid being hit. Plus somehow Naruto ninjas can spot nearly soundless kunais thrown behind them. I guess they can feel the changes of wind or something like that. Perhaps it's just a theory.



lol kunai>gun
even though gun>>>>>>any ninja with kunai


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## Eldritch Sukima (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> lol kunai>gun
> even though gun>>>>>>any ninja with kunai



That shop owner in the Land of Waves arc could solo the rest of the Narutoverse with his gun?


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## willyvereb (Sep 25, 2010)

Well, Kunais are like slingshots compared to sniper rifles but they do not have a definite obvious sound, only the hissing in the air. If Pain really has supersonic reactions(which is a bit dubious for me at least but I have never studied his speed feats to begin with) then he can react to the sniper round from the distance the same way other ninjas react to kunais behind them. The sniper bullet needs to travel hundreds of meters while all Pain has to just to side-step to avoid being shot. If he can spot the bullet coming then he can dodge it with ease, assuming he has supersonic reactions and speed.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> Well, Kunais are like slingshots compared to sniper rifles but they do not have a definite obvious sound, only the hissing in the air. If Pain really has supersonic reactions(which is a bit dubious for me at least but I have never studied his speed feats to begin with) then he can react to the sniper round from the distance the same way other ninjas react to kunais behind them. The sniper bullet needs to travel hundreds of meters while all Pain has to just to side-step to avoid being shot. If he can spot the bullet coming then he can dodge it with ease, assuming he has supersonic reactions and speed.



Pain is not dodging multiple sniper bullets coming at him from all direction


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## willyvereb (Sep 25, 2010)

Shinra Tensei solves that problem. Also unless Pain is in a wide open area and LA suddenly has a military commander at the level of Bright Noah, I can't see him ending up in such situation.


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

pain does 1 shinra tensei, and then in the 5 seconds it takes to recharge, he gets filled with lead


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

whats stopping the LA pd from sniping his ass from choppers?

seriously shinra tenseing away bullets? thats faster then anything he never repelled before..so why is he being allowed to do it?


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## rockonyx (Sep 25, 2010)

All he needs, is 5 seconds.

Seriously, though, he doesn't get out of Compton. If the gangs don't snuff his pasty white, pin cushion pierced, goth wannabe ass, the cops will just start shooting everything for choppers.


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## Banhammer (Sep 25, 2010)

Simon Cowel solos


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## Whimsy (Sep 25, 2010)

He womps the gangs with the quickness. He takes down heli's with that move he used to drop a rock on KN6 Naruto. And wtf are they going to do against chibaku tensei? Nothing, they're going to die. If the military doesn't get involved, things are going to get messy for LA.


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## Kael Hyun (Sep 25, 2010)

Is this Pain as in all 7 paths? If so Pain rapes. HARD.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Sep 25, 2010)

Pain loses....


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## Estrecca (Sep 25, 2010)

Considering that the Naraka path took Konohamaru's rasengan to the chest and wasn't incapacitated and that it wasn't possible to do an autopsy of the first Animal path because scalpel's couldn't penetrate his skin... Well, you aren't putting down any of the paths with absolutely anything less than a major airstrike or artillery barrage. And since the OP explicitly disallows military, LAPD and associated 'forces' are shit out of luck. Snipers won't be able to get a bead on something as superhumanly fast as Deva and neither will the police be able to corral him.

Even scenario 1 is a worse rape than the Darth Maul vs Da Bloods nonsense.


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## Masa (Sep 25, 2010)

I've never seen all these strategically positioned snipers in LA and I was born and raised there...


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

Masa said:


> I've never seen all these strategically positioned snipers in LA and I was born and raised there...



Because they haven't faced a threat like pein


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## nadinkrah (Sep 25, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> Because they haven't faced a threat like pein



so? they are going to get that good out of nowhere? not.


If Pain realizes the bullets are too much for him, he goes up in the air and uses AP. GG


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## Kael Hyun (Sep 25, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> Because they haven't faced a threat like pein



 and they *wouldn't* know have the prep TO face Pain read the stats of the battle



kyrax12 said:


> Pain from Naruto fights against Los Angeles forces..
> 
> Meaning LAPD, Gangs, Criminals stuff like that.
> To start things off slow... This is only DEVA pain rampaging through the city and what not. This is only Los Angeles therefore the military, or any outside party is not allow.
> ...



Pain can use abandoned Buildings to store his Paths. meaning he's technically invincible even if the snipers had the balls to take him out hell one of the first things he would do if he's smart would be to take out the biggest threats first in the stealth run. hell even if they do they wouldn't know who did it because 1 Pain doesn't have a record and 2 because Pain can make it look like something else did it


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

nadinkrah said:


> so? they are going to get that good out of nowhere? not.
> 
> 
> If Pain realizes the bullets are too much for him, he goes up in the air and uses AP. GG



And almighty push destroyed what? a small town? And on top of that he can't use it again for like 10 minutes.


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## nadinkrah (Sep 25, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> And almighty push destroyed what? a small town? And on top of that he can't use it again for like 10 minutes.



yeah, tell me who will live after that?


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> and they *wouldn't* know have the prep TO face Pain read the stats of the battle
> 
> 
> 
> Pain can use abandoned Buildings to store his Paths. meaning he's technically invincible even if the snipers had the balls to take him out hell one of the first things he would do if he's smart would be to take out the biggest threats first in the stealth run. hell even if they do they wouldn't know who did it because 1 Pain doesn't have a record and 2 because Pain can make it look like something else did it


LAPD Air Support Division will finish of pein.



nadinkrah said:


> yeah, tell me who will live after that?



A large part of LA.


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## 8-Peacock-8 (Sep 25, 2010)

LAPD stomps?


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

Normal human aim dodges bullets, yet Pain can't.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> Normal human aim dodges bullets, yet Pain can't.



He can't aimdodge em all. Best bet spam ST.


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## Pintsize (Sep 25, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> Considering that the Naraka path took Konohamaru's rasengan to the chest and wasn't incapacitated and that it wasn't possible to do an autopsy of the first Animal path because scalpel's couldn't penetrate his skin... Well, you aren't putting down any of the paths with absolutely anything less than a major airstrike or artillery barrage. And since the OP explicitly disallows military, LAPD and associated 'forces' are shit out of luck. Snipers won't be able to get a bead on something as superhumanly fast as Deva and neither will the police be able to corral him.
> 
> Even scenario 1 is a worse rape than the Darth Maul vs Da Bloods nonsense.



Thread should have been over. 

You guys are dumb if you think the average human could get sights on Pain. Guns wouldn't do shit.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

Pain's could just teleport, he could run them apart in taijutsu while stabbing them with he's blades.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

Pintsize said:


> Thread should have been over.
> 
> You guys are dumb if you think the average human could get sights on Pain. Guns wouldn't do shit.



I can't see Deva Pain running around and not standing in one place using ST


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## enzymeii (Sep 25, 2010)

Sniper rounds, even armor piercing ones, wouldn't necessarily do anything to Deva realm since it's already a corpse.  The body has to be totally disabled- remember how Asura realm kept getting up after having his body torn apart?


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## Pintsize (Sep 25, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> I can't see Deva Pain running around and not standing in one place using ST


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)




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## Pintsize (Sep 25, 2010)

Well, they're pretty much the same, right? I mean, I haven't read the chapters in a while and I wasn't using that to illustrate feats.

Just that yes, Pain does move unlike an idiot. Like he would with PIS off


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## Basilikos (Sep 25, 2010)

Scenario 1: Deva Pain takes this easily since he'll be stealthfully killing off people one by one or in small groups at a time.

Scenario 2: More difficult. Deva can still take this by himself provided that he keeps moving and makes good use of his supersonic speed to prevent them from being able to react and get him in their sight to shoot him.

So Deva can take both scenarios by himself.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 25, 2010)

Pintsize said:


> Well, they're pretty much the same, right? I mean, I haven't read the chapters in a while and I wasn't using that to illustrate feats.
> 
> Just that yes, Pain does move unlike an idiot. Like he would with PIS off



Ignoring the roadrunner speedfeat, getting hammered down to the ground, punching the ground and summoning water from nowhere and ignoring the 5 second ST interval AND THE HORRENDOUS FACIAL EXPRESSIONS, YEAH IT IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME


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## Pintsize (Sep 25, 2010)

Like I said, wasn't using it to illustrate feats.


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 25, 2010)

The military is banned and Pein is given some element of surprise though they'll think he's some idiot in a Pein costume and probably underestimate him. Unless he runs into Darth Maul accidently whose hunting down the Da Bloods he'd win.

EDIT Shit someone mentioned Darth Maul vs Da Bloods before me. 

But really gangs and LAPD giving a superhuman like Pein trouble is now just stupid.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

The whole Pain is supersonic is coming from the FRS crossing of the chibaku tensei crater in 1 second.


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

swat handles his, pein isnt ST'ing a whole bunch of bullets from an assult rifle


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> The whole Pain is supersonic is coming from the FRS crossing of the chibaku tensei crater in 1 second.



Shouldn't that put him at supersonic+.


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## The Bite of the She-Wolf (Sep 25, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The military is banned and Pein is given some element of surprise though they'll think he's some idiot in a Pein costume and probably underestimate him. Unless he runs into Darth Maul accidently whose hunting down the Da Bloods he'd win.





10char


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## Crimson Dragoon (Sep 25, 2010)

this thread is just


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## ShiggyDiggyDoo (Sep 25, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> The military is banned and Pein is given some element of surprise though they'll think he's some idiot in a Pein costume and probably underestimate him. Unless he runs into Darth Maul accidently whose hunting down the Da Bloods he'd win.
> 
> EDIT Shit someone mentioned Darth Maul vs Da Bloods before me.
> 
> *But really gangs and LAPD giving a superhuman like Pein trouble is now just stupid.*



I seriously thought I was the only one thinking this.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> swat handles his, pein isnt ST'ing a whole bunch of bullets from an assult rifle



This relies that Swat manages to locate him. Which is possible although being a "ninja" in a sense it will be much harder if Deva Path decides to take advantage of his surroundings or what not. 

Not to mention the LOS Angles Force probably don't want to damage their infrastructure. Unless of course they don't care which wouldn't matter. 

If so many enemies, it will encourage Deva to use CST and CT. 

Mind you I am talking in terms of multiple scenarios that can occur once Deva enters here. 

As Whimsey and Tranquil Fury although did explain Deva Path is a superhuman, this fact must be taken in consideration. 



Devil Kings said:


> Shouldn't that put him at supersonic+.



At best yes.



Crimson Dragoon said:


> this thread is just



Yes


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

SYSC said:


> ^this.....



read the OP then you will know that this post is worthless


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he's not repelling modern weaponry at all
> 
> and yes iirc i think there is a military base in LA...hell the idiots supposedly shot at a flying saucer back in the forties from it


, why not?


Whimsy said:


> He womps the gangs with the quickness. He takes down heli's with that move he used to drop a rock on KN6 Naruto. And wtf are they going to do against chibaku tensei? Nothing, they're going to die. If the military doesn't get involved, things are going to get messy for LA.


DAH SNIPERS . But in all seriusness yeah once he does CT or CST is all over  



Kirihara said:


> Because they haven't faced a threat like pein


and because they haven't face a threat like pain, they are not going to know how to proceed and in the end it will result in their doom


Kirihara said:


> And almighty push destroyed what? a small town? And on top of that he can't use it again for like 10 minutes.


of about 4 kilometers wide, and I want to see a human suriving that 



nadinkrah said:


> yeah, tell me who will live after that?


nobody


Devil Kings said:


> Normal human aim dodges bullets, yet Pain can't.


somehow


enzymeii said:


> Sniper rounds, even armor piercing ones, wouldn't necessarily do anything to Deva realm since it's already a corpse.  The body has to be totally disabled- remember how Asura realm kept getting up after having his body torn apart?


exactly and eve if they butcher the body (which they can't do), naraka path can just spam them back


Masa said:


> I've never seen all these strategically positioned snipers in LA and I was born and raised there...


welcome to the OBD, where random snipers able to take out superhumans naruto characters come out nowhere 


Tranquil Fury said:


> The military is banned and Pein is given some element of surprise though they'll think he's some idiot in a Pein costume and probably underestimate him. Unless he runs into Darth Maul accidently whose hunting down the Da Bloods he'd win.
> 
> EDIT Shit someone mentioned Darth Maul vs Da Bloods before me.
> 
> But really gangs and LAPD giving a superhuman like Pein trouble is now just stupid.


this



Devil Kings said:


> Shouldn't that put him at supersonic+.


yes


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## RikodouGai (Sep 25, 2010)

With all his paths, he could always just summon his Chameleon and go invisible, get a few miles away from the center of the city and take cover in an abandoned home, and use CT.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

Don't you think Ladies and Gentlemen, that Deva not being a retard could possibly use Henge in theory at least in probability wise? 

I mean I highly doubt in terms of probability of the occuring situation Deva will always stroll in like this and like that. 


Anyway what if he makes rain. How helpful would that be?


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

um CST didnt even bust the entire village, like 20 konohas can fit into LA, so 1 cst is just gonna end him up full of lead by snipers or assult rifles


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

Naruto's once more been underrated, if people actually beleved Pain can't kill normal human beings, no matter what weapon they use.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> Don't you think Ladies and Gentlemen, that Deva not being a retard could possibly use Henge in theory at least in probability wise?
> 
> I mean I highly doubt in terms of probability of the occuring situation Deva will always stroll in like this and like that.
> 
> ...


I really don't see that helping at all


cnorwood said:


> um CST didnt even bust the entire village, like 20 konohas can fit into LA, so 1 cst is just gonna end him up full of lead by snipers or assult rifles



and where are you getting this numbers from, calc.s much


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## cnorwood (Sep 25, 2010)

people are overating naruto if they think naruto characters can tank bullets


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> um *CST didnt even bust the entire village*, like 20 konohas can fit into LA, so 1 cst is just gonna end him up full of lead by snipers or assult rifles



Yes it did. 

20 Konohas in 1 LA is really pushing it beyond.


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## Level7N00b (Sep 25, 2010)

I see him getting a bullet sooner or later.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> people are overating naruto if they think naruto characters can tank bullets



Instead of simply trying to dismis everything try to compare feats. Very few in Naruto may be able too.



Level7N00b said:


> I see him getting a bullet sooner or later.



Probability wise speaks yes most likely from a sniper though if Deva Path stand still for example but I am not sure what one bullet is going to do. He is already corpse.


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## Big Bοss (Sep 25, 2010)

Crimson Dragoon said:


> *Some people* in this thread are just



Fixed


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> people are overating naruto if they think naruto characters can tank bullets


 you see there is this problem with pain, and it is that he is already dead, I don't know if you knew that, so you will have to completely incapacitate him


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## Stermor (Sep 25, 2010)

simple cloaking genjutsu (like jiriaya his sensei uses all the time) would allow him invisibility untill heat detectors are used... he can destroy a huge part of la before they will find out his patern or how he is escaping.... 

(it is realy hard to find something if every 10 minuts couple square miles get wiped of the map without any sign..)

pain can easily take out la...

there only option is airfuel bomb or a nuke to take him out... since while large ordance would hurt him it is way to easy to avoid with shinra tensei....


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## Tranquil Fury (Sep 25, 2010)

I am now going to ask a question, how much force does it take for a regular bullet to penetrate a human and why assume this will work on a superhuman who comes from a verse of superhumans and is like upper mid tier in it? People keep saying bullets will work on Pein but never explain why and this also depends on the bullet. This is offcourse ignoring Pein's durability like what Estrecca mentioned. Steel cutting has been done by people lower than Pein, Pein himself took a Rasengan and hits from SM Naruto.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

Tranquil Fury said:


> I am now going to ask a question, how much force does it take for a regular bullet to penetrate a human and why assume this will work on a superhuman who comes from a verse of superhumans and is like upper mid tier in it? People keep saying bullets will work on Pein but never explain why and this also depends on the bullet. This is offcourse ignoring Pein's durability like what Estrecca mentioned. Steel cutting has been done by people lower than Pein, Pein himself took a Rasengan and hits from SM Naruto.



Its simple.

Ever since some reader, falsefly interpreted Kishimoto's Ancient Interview to say Guns > Ninja, people still today although not as much before are eager to jump on its bandwagon. 

Although Kishimoto never even said that I believe. He just said guns take away his concept and view of ninjas.


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## Orochibuto (Sep 25, 2010)

If it was Nagato with all his paths I see him winning easily, but only Deva I dont know.....

This is the only way I can see him winning:

The only way I see him winning is via Chibaku rather than CST. The only way I can see him winning is if he gets in the area where LA governor house is located and all administrative buildings (he doesnt even have to come near the houses only enter the radius of said sector of LA) once he is there he can use CST to nuke that part of the city which believe me will cause a lot of confusion in the goverment forces and nobody will now what to do.

Then while the city is in panic and searching for some terrorists or some shit, he goes away from the nukes part and cast a Chibaku Tensei on the other end of the city, then while the city, if the Chibaku Tensei is high enough he can then drop it like a ball in another sector of the city to smash it.

Until now we have then 3 sections of the city destroyed, one by CST other by Chibaku and another one from Chibaku drop. In this situation police wont know what to do they will now have to deal with 3 large areas of the city totally destroyed and they will be focused on the destroyed parts.

Pain then goes and start killing himself shitloads of people and police in the remains of the city, when things start to go nasty and the whole police force starts to focus on him he flees that part of the city that will be now heavily guarded and go to another sector and again casts a bigger Chibaku Tensei (Pain stated he could do a bigger CT to capture Kyuubi so I think is safe to assume he can create at least 2, one of then bigger than the one we saw) and again destroys a large part of the city with his Chibaku and then drops the chibaku in an unharmed area of the city.

I think that by now the entire city will be destroyed if not most of it and will be easy for Pain to take care of the remaining forces if there are any.

Nagato would absolutely win with all 7 paths they couldnt beat him, summon spam would lay waste to any city.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> Its simple.
> 
> Ever since some reader, falsefly interpreted Kishimoto's Ancient Interview to say Guns > Ninja, people still today although not as much before are eager to jump on its bandwagon.
> 
> Although Kishimoto never even said that I believe. He just said guns take away his concept and view of ninjas.



I remember reading that. All he said was guns has no use in the Naruto verse, because guns are not somethings a ninja would ever use.

So people automatically says guns>>>Naruto verse, and that's pure bull.


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## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

Considering that 6 Gated Gai is confirmed supersonic+. Which logically means that at the very least top tier Naruto have supersonic+ reactions. Otherwise 6 Gated Gai would blitz everyone. 

Even Chiyo a high tier ninja was able to react Iron Sand Drizzle which is supposedly supersonic because it sonic booms but that is up for you to decide.


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> Considering that 6 Gated Gai is confirmed supersonic+. Which logically means that at the very least top tier Naruto have supersonic+ reactions. Otherwise 6 Gated Gai would blitz everyone.
> 
> Even Chiyo a high tier ninja was able to react Iron Sand Drizzle which is supposedly supersonic because it sonic booms but that is up for you to decide.



That's the thing most people here always says powers calling aren't allowed in the Naruto verse, yet they uses for One Piece.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> Its simple.
> 
> Ever since some reader, falsefly interpreted Kishimoto's Ancient Interview to say Guns > Ninja, people still today although not as much before are eager to jump on its bandwagon.
> 
> Although Kishimoto never even said that I believe. He just said guns take away his concept and view of ninjas.



Kishi didnt said guns > ninjas. But he IMPLIED projectiles > ninja, of course it is to take in count not all ninjas are the same, you arent going to compare Neji with RS.

but 99.99% of Narutoverse is made of fodder nins like Neji and the rookies, hell they are the strongest one among fodders, so yes Projectiles > Narutoverse if you take the general population of Narutoverse.

But if you take the minority like EMS Sasuke, RM Naruto, Current Madara, high gated ninjas and RS, no.


----------



## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

Orochibuto said:


> Kishi didnt said guns > ninjas. But he IMPLIED projectiles > ninja, of course it is to take in count not all ninjas are the same, you arent going to compare Neji with RS.
> 
> but 99.99% of Narutoverse is made of fodder nins like Neji and the rookies, hell they are the strongest one among fodders, so yes Projectiles > Narutoverse if you take the general population of Narutoverse.
> 
> But if you take the minority like EMS Sasuke, RM Naruto, Current Madara, high gated ninjas and RS, no.



You must be talking about the missiles. Well obviously because most of Narutoverse have bottom tier superhuman durability. 

Then again that interview is old. And Asura used missiles later, low level ones.


----------



## Orochibuto (Sep 25, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> You must be talking about the missiles. Well obviously because most of Narutoverse have bottom tier superhuman durability.
> 
> Then again that interview is old. And Asura used missiles later, low level ones.



The interview still apply but not the way most OBDers do

1) The > nins, apply to MISSLES not guns, Kishi never said guns > Narutoverse, he said missiles > Narutoverse and he didnt even said it directly but implied it, but ok lets take the implication for good, but lets not put guns in when they were never there.

2) 99.99% of Narutoverse is made of fodder, obviously if missiles > 99.99% of your verse you cay say missiles > nins, because you are taking the general population. The number of people that are free fom this rule are the top tiers, they are like 10 at most out of thousands of course missiles > nins becuase you cant take 10 people as the general nin population, you take the majority into account and the majority sucks and would be soloes by missiles.


----------



## SYSC (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> read the OP then you will know that this post is worthless



Oh ....


----------



## 321zigzag (Sep 25, 2010)

Kishimoto meant missiles in terms of its destructiv capacity obviously. Modern missiles he was refering to. 

I never was disagreeing in what you said that most of Narutoverse sucks anyway in durability anyway. 

Although I was bit underestimating.


----------



## David (Sep 25, 2010)

Isn't Pain faster than the eye can see, at the very least?

I mean, assuming that's the case, putting aside stray bullets, how can normal humans even land hits on him?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 25, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> Pain from Naruto fights against Los Angeles forces..
> 
> Meaning LAPD, Gangs, Criminals stuff like that.
> To start things off slow... This is only DEVA pain rampaging through the city and what not. This is only Los Angeles *therefore the military, or any outside party is not allow. *
> ...



bolded=/Pain wins with minor effortby forcing himself to keep moving and going into buildings or even the sewer on occasion... 
Underlined would equate to obliteration with extreme ease as Asura would dispatch of law enforcement without worry via continous spread of missile.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Sep 25, 2010)

cnorwood said:


> read the OP then you will know that this post is worthless



Not completely, he gets to use them if he gets in trouble and THATS when he rapes I really just said it to give this thread a shot of Sanaty


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

nadinkrah said:


> If Pain realizes the bullets are too much for him, he goes up in the air and uses AP. GG



oh my god pain can with maximum life threatening effort

nuke something the size of a few city blocks

oh..goodness LA's fucked..he can maybe take out compton before using that kills him

what ever shall we do!! I mean besides letting himself nuke himself to death or just blowing his brains out



nadinkrah said:


> yeah, tell me who will live after that?



the other fourteen million or so  people that make up LA a quarter of a million of which should be armed


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Sep 25, 2010)

Pein could only win scenario one by constantly hiding, using CST, recover in hiding, and repeat.


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 25, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh my god pain can with maximum life threatening effort
> 
> nuke something the size of a few city blocks



If you can bring to the table something even mildly specific about the proportions of Konoha, feel free to do so. Because until you do, your assertion of it being "the size of a few city blocks" is laughable in the face of this...



Take the Hokage mountain as the reference point. If the Hokage memorials are the size of the Mt Rushmore heads, then the section of Konoha that can be seen in the image (which is not all the village, since the walls are nowhere to be seen) is well over a kilometer wide. 

tl,dr version: Los Angeles is still much bigger than Konoha. But the big Shinra Tensei, which is perhaps as powerful as the Hiroshima nuke, is no mere 'city-block buster'.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2010)

*LOL Immortal Watchdog and his "it's just a few city blocks" bullshit.*


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 25, 2010)

^Even that picture doesn't encompass the entire village.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> If you can bring to the table something even mildly specific about the proportions of Konoha, feel free to do so. Because until you do, your assertion of it being "the size of a few city blocks" is laughable in the face of this...
> 
> ]



there are more people living in LA then there are ninjas in the entire naruto universe
there is literally no single thing justifying some of the claims people have made saying in a village like that a few million or even hundred thousand live

that thing is not larger then LA..he is not one shotting the city...by any means



Estrecca said:


> Take the Hokage mountain as the reference point. If the Hokage memorials are the size of the Mt Rushmore heads, then the section of Konoha that can be seen in the image (which is not all the village, since the walls are nowhere to be seen) is well over a kilometer wide.



kishi the hack that he is is inconsistent with his villages size..I'm under no obligation to seriously entertain that scan


Estrecca said:


> tl,dr version: Los Angeles is still much bigger than Konoha. But the big Shinra Tensei, which is perhaps as powerful *as the Hiroshima nuke,* is no mere 'city-block buster'.



bullshit...complete and absolute bullshit


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## Devil Kings (Sep 25, 2010)

All manga's has their inconstancy, so the village not being big everytime it's shown is one of them.


----------



## ChINaMaN1472 (Sep 25, 2010)

The city of LA according to Wiki is 1290.6 km^2.
As a circle, that puts it at a RADIUS of 20.2 km.
As a square, it's 35.9 km long per side.

Yea, Konoha is nowhere near that big.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> All manga's has their inconstancy, so the village not being big everytime it's shown is one of them.



I would have no problem rolling with that...except for it being so god damned constant..with him

which is weird because he can be totally consistent with kumo and the ,land of iron...but..not the main home town

although granted it seems to be one of bigger villages..since gaara's seems rather puny


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 25, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> there are more people living in LA then there are ninjas in the entire naruto universe



Well, duh.

We know from way back in the Wave arc that the number of ninjas aligned with the major villages is measured in the thousands. Los Angeles has a population of millions. The math is simple.

Which is besides the point, since as far as I can see no one in this thread has claimed otherwise.



> there is literally no single thing justifying some of the claims people have made saying in a village like that a few million or even hundred thousand live



Its size alone pretty much proves a population measured in the high tens of thousands or low hundreds of thousands. A million sounds difficult, but it'd be potentially doable. After all, Ancient Rome concentrated roughly a million fellows in the area of six or seven square kilometers enclosed by the Aurelian Walls.



And the numerical difference between shinobi population and total population can be easily explained by the presence of civilians (the people most of the ninja were busy evacuating when Pain showed up, as you might or might not remember).



> that thing is not larger then LA..he is not one shotting the city...by any means



And I have never claimed any such thing. Just saying that your description is blatantly inaccurate.



> kishi the hack that he is is inconsistent with his villages size..I'm under no obligation to seriously entertain that scan



_The hell you aren't._

You don't get to cherry-pick evidence in order to make the Narutoverse fit your preconceptions anymore than I get to choose feats like Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in a stranglehold when debating against Norrin.

You don't like it? Too bad.

But you don't get to ignore it.



> bullshit...complete and absolute bullshit



If it is 'complete and utter bullshit', it shouldn't be difficult for you to prove the difference in power between Little Boy and the big Shinra Tensei. Since I am a helpful fellow, you might find this to be useful. 



It is the damage map of the city of Hiroshima drawn by the USAF after they dropped the bomb. Red marks the part of the city that got wrecked by the bomb and then devastated by an ensuing mass fire. There is even a handy scale and everything.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> Well, duh.
> 
> We know from way back in the Wave arc that the number of ninjas aligned with the major villages is measured in the thousands. Los Angeles has a population of millions. The math is simple.
> 
> Which is besides the point, since as far as I can see no one in this thread has claimed otherwise.]



and no village has ever shown to be larger then say..a district in a major city shitty art aside

[





Estrecca said:


> Its size alone pretty much proves a population measured in the high tens of thousands or low hundreds of thousands. A million sounds difficult, but it'd be potentially doable. After all, Ancient Rome concentrated roughly a million fellows in the area of six or seven square kilometers enclosed by the Aurelian Walls.



I have seen nothing to suggest that konoha or any hidden village for that matter..could feed or sustain...a population larger then say forty thousand

no evidence presented has suggested a population on such levels I'm not even sure there has ever been more then....ten thousand ninjas on a single cover 




Estrecca said:


> And the numerical difference between shinobi population and total population can be easily explained by the presence of civilians (the people most of the ninja were busy evacuating when Pain showed up, as you might or might not remember).



Rome had everything from aqueducts to thousands of miles of fertile farmland supplying it and it was one most advanced cities ever in the classical age 

konoha while obviously more advanced...does not seem to possess any of the same traits..and seem to be entirely dependent..on the nobility and the resources they control and the narutoverse seems kinda craptastically worked out for the type of population levels your suggesting 

theres also an astronomical cost of maintaining a city of living superhuman weapons in peace time....

and yeah I am aware of the civies...I just can't see more then forty thou living in the same city



Estrecca said:


> And I have never claimed any such thing. Just saying that your description is blatantly inaccurate.



so its the size of major "borough" of LA theres probably a larger population in compton..or manhattan..or downtown Miami..or peurto Madero(iffy on this one)..if you wanna run analogies...to other major cities  then there is in the entire villages



Estrecca said:


> ]_The hell you aren't._
> 
> You don't get to cherry-pick evidence in order to make the Narutoverse fit your preconceptions anymore than I get to choose feats like Black Panther putting Silver Surfer in a stranglehold when debating against Norrin.
> 
> ...



I'm fully within my right to dismiss inconsistent evidence
[





Estrecca said:


> If it is 'complete and utter bullshit', it shouldn't be difficult for you to prove the difference in power between Little Boy and the big Shinra Tensei. Since I am a helpful fellow, you might find this to be useful.



the A bomb dropped on hiroshima annihlated a hundred and sixty some thousand people instantaneously and killed many more over a period of time

a greater tally then any hidden villages population


pictured above larger then Konoha 



Estrecca said:


> It is the damage map of the city of Hiroshima drawn by the USAF after they dropped the bomb. Red marks the part of the city that got wrecked by the bomb and then devastated by an ensuing mass fire. There is even a handy scale and everything.



its good to know the USAF can exterminate the entire metahuman population of the naruto universe with one bomb..for future threads but I don't see how it has any basis here..buddy

god..it feels weird debating against you about something other then star wars


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 25, 2010)

Bottom line: 

If you want to prove that Konoha isn't as big as shown in the best canon image that has been drawn of the place, it is your burden of proof. Present something more solid than 'I don't think that is right'.

And if you are going to actually go and give a figure of fourty thousand feel free to provide your reasoned rationale behind the figure.

Now, regarding the Rome thing, Konoha does have running water and sanitation up to semi-acceptable modern standards so it has nothing to envy Rome in there. It has also a working healthcare system with the functional equivalent of healing magic that while geared to satisfy the needs of the shinobi, probably also removes the chances of a pandemic showing up among the civilians of Konoha. They have electricity (electrical wiring is everywhere in Konoha proper) which helps with food storage and the village is the military center of a major nation, which would allow the kages to concentrate there more population than the local foodstuffs would ordinarily allow. Same deal Rome had with the imports of Egyptian grain.

In short, everything Rome had, Konoha has it better. There is no logistical ceiling that makes it impossible for Konoha to hold a million persons.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> Bottom line:
> 
> If you want to prove that Konoha isn't as big as shown in the best canon image that has been drawn of the place, it is your burden of proof. Present something more solid than 'I don't think that is right']



no you have to justify my accepting of a completely inconsistent scan done by a writer known for retconning things on a whim...who's consistency depends entirely on his personal biased and mood when writing for that week


Estrecca said:


> And if you are going to actually go and give a figure of fourty thousand feel free to provide your reasoned rationale behind the figure.



back up the numbers your suggesting with something other then a typical kishi fuck up


Estrecca said:


> Now, regarding the Rome thing, Konoha does have running water and sanitation up to semi-acceptable modern standards so it has nothing to envy Rome in there. It has also a working healthcare system with the functional equivalent of healing magic that while geared to satisfy the needs of the shinobi, probably also removes the chances of a pandemic showing up among the civilians of Konoha. They have electricity (electrical wiring is everywhere in Konoha proper) which helps with food storage and the village is the military center of a major nation, which would allow the kages to concentrate there more population than the local foodstuffs would ordinarily allow. Same deal Rome had with the imports of Egyptian grain.



and the ten highschools in my area likely had the equivalent to the entire villages population...so 



Estrecca said:


> In short, everything Rome had, Konoha has it better. There is no logistical ceiling that makes it impossible for Konoha to hold a million persons.



err yes it does....theres nothing to support it in canon...and the size of the city itself being contradictory as fuck....certainly casts doubt into it


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 25, 2010)

What the hell are you talking about Immortal Watchdog? The burden of proof is on you. He doens't have to justify a goddamn thing. He showed you a scan. Now it's your turn. Evidence isn't "lol Kishi inconsistent herp derp."


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## hammer (Sep 25, 2010)

you guys made the claim its as big as hiroshima/nagasaki so its on you


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## ChINaMaN1472 (Sep 25, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> In short, everything Rome had, Konoha has it better. There is no logistical ceiling that makes it impossible for Konoha to hold a million persons.



Size?  The densest city in the world currently holds ~43,079 per sq km.  So, to get to a million, you'd need about 23.2 sq km.  That makes a circular size of roughly 2.7km radius, 5.4 km diameter.

According to Wiki, the blast from little boy at Hiroshima was 3.2 km diameter.

So if we're on the fact that the ST that blew up Konoha was equal to the blast, I'm afraid that claim won't work 

Either way, Pein isn't one shotting LA so it's a moot point.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 25, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> What the hell are you talking about Immortal Watchdog? The burden of proof is on you. He doens't have to justify a goddamn thing. He showed you a scan. Now it's your turn. Evidence isn't "lol Kishi inconsistent herp derp."



umm no..thats not how it works yall wanna prove pein has the power of an atomic bomb when nothing..in the entire NU does...yall better prove it


----------



## Han Solo (Sep 26, 2010)

Lol, this is so easy. Just henge alot and move at a reasonably fast speed(300mph+) and use normal ST every five seconds.

They'll never know who to shoot. The end.

Henge is by far the best thing in the entire Narutoverse, I swear.


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no you have to justify my accepting of a completely inconsistent scan done by a writer known for retconning things on a whim...who's consistency depends entirely on his personal biased and mood when writing for that week



Let's see... we have shifting of the burden of proof, ad hominem attacks against the author and generally poor debating form. No actual argument and generally nothing of any substance whatsoever.



> and the ten highschools in my area likely had the equivalent to the entire villages population...so



Then those high schools must have many thousands students each.



> err yes it does....theres nothing to support it in canon...and the size of the city itself being contradictory as fuck....certainly casts doubt into it



Nothing other than Pain saying that his bijuu bomb could have killed hundreds of millions, which seeing how the territory we are dealing with is rather small demands extremely high population densities.

Now, since I felt like putting my money where my mouth is, I decided to do some scaling.



The part of the wall we can see is over eleven times Kakashi's height. With Kakashi being 1.81 meters tall, this part of the wall (not all of it) has to be over twenty meters tall. 



Now, this shows that the Konoha crater is at least 9.4 times deeper than the full height of the wall and at least 32.5 times as wide. Since we see neither the full depth or diameter, this is a low end.

Going with an height of 20 meters for the wall (which we know to be less than the actual figure), we get that the Konoha crater is at least 188 meters deep and at least has a diameter of 650 meters. Again, these are low ends.

Yet clumsy and utterly low end as the calculation is, it gives us something of a benchmark to work with.

How does this low end compare with nuclear scale events?

Well, nukes actually do most of their damage via thermal effects, rather than the overpressure wave. Since Shinra Tensei does damage through kinetic means, pushing stuff away, a purely kinetic impactor like a meteor strike fits the bill somewhat better.

Let's pick the most famous meteor crater in the world, the Barringer Crater in Arizona.





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Meteor Crater lies at an elevation of about 1,740 m (5,709 ft) above sea level. It is about *1,200 m (4,000 ft) in diameter, some 170 m deep (570 ft)*, and is surrounded by a rim that rises 45 m (150 ft) above the surrounding plains. The center of the crater is filled with 210?240 m (700?800 ft) of rubble lying above crater bedrock.[1] One of the interesting features of the crater is its squared-off outline, believed to be caused by pre-existing regional jointing (cracks) in the strata at the impact site.[6]



So... somewhat less deep than the low end crater for the Konoha event and perhaps twice as wide. How powerful was the impact that left that big hole in the ground in Arizona? 

From 



> Scientists now believe that the crater was created approximately 50,000 years ago. The meteorite which made it was composed almost entirely of nickel-iron, suggesting that it may have originated in the interior of a small planet. It was 150 feet across, weighed roughly 300,000 tons, and was traveling at a speed of 28,600 miles per hour (12 kilometers per second) according to the most recent research.* The explosion created by its impact was equal to 2.5 megatons of TNT, or about 150 times the force of the atomic bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.*



So... the crater that Pain punched in the ground is relatively close in size to the real life result of a nuclear scale event two full orders of magnitude more violent than the Hiroshima device.

Good luck with trying to disprove that Pain cannot cause nuclear scale damage with Shinra Tensei. You are going to need it.



> umm no..thats not how it works yall wanna prove pein has the power of an atomic bomb when nothing..in the entire NU does...yall better prove it



Fail, fail and double fail.

We have the moon creation by the Sennin. We have the mountain busting by the Eight Tails. And, of course, we have Deidara.


----------



## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 26, 2010)

pain is supersonic, isn't he? anyway if he can take down all the guys with guns with strategy he could take this with some trouble. if he just starts to attack everyone he dies in a blink of an eye, because he would be shooted by a lot of people. and naruto char. aren't durable enough to be hitted by bullets and take no damage, right?


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 26, 2010)

HeavyMetalThunder said:


> pain is supersonic, isn't he? anyway if he can take down all the guys with guns with strategy he could take this with some trouble. if he just starts to attack everyone he dies in a blink of an eye, because he would be shooted by a lot of people. and naruto char. aren't durable enough to be hitted by bullets and take no damage, right?



So you're saying normal average people would start shooting at a guy that displays super powers. 

Animal Path was durable enough that autopsy didn't work on him.


----------



## HeavyMetalThunder (Sep 26, 2010)

> So you're saying normal average people would start shooting at a guy that displays super powers.
> 
> Animal Path was durable enough that autopsy didn't work on him.



I don't know, I think that there would be hundreds of people shooting, it must affect him after a while!


----------



## lambda (Sep 26, 2010)

Da Bloods can take him. He's just some nerd in a shower curtain.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

Estrecca said:


> Let's see... we have shifting of the burden of proof, ad hominem attacks against the author and generally poor debating form. No actual argument and generally nothing of any substance whatsoever.



why are you running from the debate using dishonest means? you know very well that an authors work can be invalidated or subject to intense scrutiny..if he is in fact really shitty

it happens to jeff leob all the time

masashi kishimoto is a leob caliber author and I'm invoking that as a means to challenge that images validity on the basis of..it being a leob-esque work of fiction

it certainly has all the traits PIS in an overwhelming degree author wank character bias....constantly retconning their own history...characters jobbing to the "author pet" and the general inconsistency that is rampant in leobs work that makes them almost unusable as evidence

same applies to kishi..he's just as bad and makes just as many mistakes..his work is entirely suspect and open to challenge




Estrecca said:


> Then those high schools must have many thousands students each.



4,200 is the average in my area...with the largest housing six thousand

between forty and fifty thousand folks same tally as a hidden village

[





Estrecca said:


> Nothing other than Pain saying that his bijuu bomb could have killed hundreds of millions, which seeing how the territory we are dealing with is rather small demands extremely high population densities.



since when are statements taken as valid evidence specially mentally unstable retards...who where emotionally manipulated and fed constant lies?




Estrecca said:


> Now, since I felt like putting my money where my mouth is, I decided to do some scaling.



fan calcs being not canon I'm under no obligation to bother.....provide me with canon proof not your own questionable math





Estrecca said:


> Going with an height of 20 meters for the wall (which we know to be less than the actual figure), we get that the Konoha crater is at least 188 meters deep and at least has a diameter of 650 meters. Again, these are low ends.



I could care less your estimates aren't canon



Estrecca said:


> a hunk of bullshit



again....pein is no way comparable to something that kills more people then there are in every major hidden village combined




Estrecca said:


> Fail, fail and double fail.



wait..woah..you just provided non canon evidence...and totally glossed over the fact that when faced with a bad writer...we do...call into question his stuff as soon as it sounds fishy..and at times entirely dismiss it...

now your...ignoring the fact that you have not using canon...means not fan based interpretations  open to personal bias...and then you go and you use..the below  examples?!



Estrecca said:


> We have the moon creation by the Sennin.



alleged creation of the moon..not backed up by him doing it on panel by an unreliable narrator...but that aside

the single most powerful entity in the entire universe pein being nothing but an insect to him...makes me wonder why your bringing this up



Estrecca said:


> We have the mountain busting by the Eight Tails.



a small mountain not LA leveling power here



Estrecca said:


> And, of course, we have Deidara.



who's first attack....was done to a small town likely no larger then...my fucking neighborhood....

who's suicide run...was well all of his energy and well a suicide run....and I'm not actually sure if peins lil gravitic nuke even compares to that in scope and scale whats your fucking point?

aside from the RS who until we actually gets some non uchiha confirmation on...there is nothing in NU that has that kind of power...nothing you posted proves it


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why are you running from the debate using dishonest means? you know very well that an authors work can be invalidated or subject to intense scrutiny..if he is in fact really shitty
> 
> it happens to jeff leob all the time
> 
> ...



Immortal Watchdog, stop embarassing yourself. He's destroying you and the only thing you can bitch about is Kishi's inconsistencies. Why even come to a debate thread when your going to dismiss any type of evidence that doesn't prove your point? It's ridicolous.

@the bold,     Every thread you go into has these... everybody can take the route your taking in this debate and it's childish. Fact of the matter is, in no manga, can you provide "canon" proof because it's fiction. Unless you got some evidence other than your sloppy opinions, stop being a sore loser and take this ass whooping like a man.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Immortal Watchdog, stop embarassing yourself. He's destroying you and the only thing you can bitch about is Kishi's inconsistencies. Why even come to a debate thread when your going to dismiss any type of evidence that doesn't prove your point? It's ridicolous.



so aside from smoking the big one on the forum..do you smoke it rl too..because...wow



The Chakra Fro said:


> @the bold,     Every thread you go into has these... everybody can take the route your taking in this debate and it's childish. Fact of the matter is, in no manga, can you provide "canon" proof because it's fiction. Unless you got some evidence other than your sloppy opinions, stop being a sore loser and take this ass whooping like a man.



people Reject fancalcs all the time when they come from biased sources...and I am totally within my right to completely disregard his numbers because they do not come from a canon source

...no manga can provide canon proof  let me get this straight..no manga can provide canon proof..because its.fiction.....did I just hear that right?   did you light up some crack before posting that? my god..

are you even aware of what your saying? are you retarded? manga panels..don't exist then? seeing as consistent on panel showings are how we decide who wins what and where...are we fucking serious?

the rest of your post is just you posturing like an E thug


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

I find it hard to believe, Immortal Watch Dog that Chibaku Tensei is a small mountain.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> I find it hard to believe, Immortal Watch Dog that Chibaku Tensei is a small mountain.



I'm not saying it is

I'm saying comparing it..to a device that killed nearly two hundred thousand people and destroyed an area larger then konoha....is..well naruto fanwank


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## David (Sep 26, 2010)

I will repeat myself:

How will humans like the people in Los Angelos hit someone they can't even see?

It's like that comic mgnt made about Gai soloing Akatsuki - how are you going to kill something _you can't even see?_

And Immortal Watchdog... LOL.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

Outer Path said:


> *I will repeat myself:
> 
> How will humans like the people in Los Angelos hit someone they can't even see?
> 
> ...



I don't think any ones denying he;s murdering the fuck out of many people he's not dodging or BTing multiple sniper rounds

and you guys are lucky the OP'er is intentionally gimping the city to prevent an easy win by banning the military



Outer Path said:


> And Immortal Watchdog... LOL.



Best response evar!!


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I'm not saying it is
> 
> I'm saying comparing it..to a device that killed nearly two hundred thousand people and destroyed an area larger then konoha....is..well naruto fanwank



Perhaps, but we know how Kishimoto tried to make Chibaku Tensei, multi mountain buster in the manga.


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## David (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I don't think any ones denying he;s murdering the fuck out of many people he's not dodging or BTing multiple sniper rounds



I don't think you understood my comment:

Why are you factoring in sniper rounds _when he's faster than the eye can see_, _*meaning snipers can't even see him?*_

*You can't aim at something you can't see, Watchdog.*


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

Outer Path said:


> I don't think you understood my comment:
> 
> Why are you factoring in sniper rounds _when he's faster than the eye can see_, _*meaning snipers can't even see him?*_
> 
> *You can't aim at something you can't see, Watchdog.*



...how the fuck is pein gonna be moving faster then people positioned far outside his range? guys got magical omniscience now?

the can be chillen on the top of a skyscraper what a mile or so off from the guy? or in the sky?

he can't keep himself alive for ever and he's got a thing for floating around arrogantly proclaiming his god hood..and saying how every one should "know pain" and share his unstable emoness with every one

he's also a perfect target when he's grav nuken



321zigzag said:


> Perhaps, but we know how Kishimoto tried to make Chibaku Tensei, multi mountain buster in the manga.



the ball he rolled the fox up into? I was under the impression that was an entirely separate attack from the "lol smash"

it did seem to break up a few mountains..or pieces of them but not terribly big ones..irrc the hokage monument and what you I think survived


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The best time for snipers to get Deva Pain when he is still or walking usually in the open.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> The best time for snipers to get Deva Pain when he is still or walking usually in the open.



he kinda did spend like half...the fight floating above konoha right? then preaching to tsunade...then...getting into a contest of speeches with naruto?

post gravitic holocaust any ways


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## Stermor (Sep 26, 2010)

it is fairly clear here pain can solo la..  he is to fast for people to aim at. + he got various genjutsu;s other random ninja shit to stop people from seeing him... 
(also he only needs a moment to lvl everything within shooting distance.. 

then just run away and henge into somebody else go nuke next part and go... there is just no way la will find a effectif means of tracking pain.. no tracking means no large ordance(air strike) ... 

the only option la has is nuking la and hoping for the best... which ofcource wouldn't really be productive.. but it is the only think i can see that pain can't dogde or st away...


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he can't keep himself alive for ever and he's got a thing for floating around arrogantly proclaiming his god hood..and saying how every one should "know pain" and share his unstable emoness with every one
> 
> he's also a perfect target when he's grav nuken



Going by broad probability of how Deva Path approaches this scenario himself.
Assuming he isn't a retard; Chinaman, Han Solo, and myself for example stated it would be wiser if Deva just uses the urban environment for his advantage. Since his goal is to take out the city he may approach different from how he did with the kyuubi. In konoha he was purposely creating a storm to attract Naruto. 

As Han Solo and I said, Henge is your best friend. Chakra Rain may help. 
Now I am going by probability on the chance that decent intelligent Nagato won't stroll in with a ruckus. 




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the ball he rolled the fox up into? I was under the impression that was an entirely separate attack from the "lol smash"
> 
> it did seem to break up a few mountains..or pieces of them but not terribly big ones..irrc the hokage monument and what you I think survived



Chibaku Tensei took place way outside Konoha. Those "mountain looking things" were bigger than the Hokage Mountain. But to be fair it may be multiple small mountain/hill things into a one huge one. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he kinda did spend like half...the fight floating above konoha right? then preaching to tsunade...then...getting into a contest of speeches with naruto?
> 
> post gravitic holocaust any ways



Deva Path spent his time interrogating, fighting KAkashi then talking to Tsunade then floating very high and then going CST. 

He may do that or use Chibaku Tensei. Considering CT doesn't seem to have that delay drawback that might be better.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

he can't henge..effectively when he speaks not the language nor knows nothing of the culture

he's also a sitting duck when he nukes



321zigzag said:


> Going by broad probability of how Deva Path approaches this scenario himself.
> Assuming he isn't a retard; Chinaman, Han Solo, and myself for example stated it would be wiser if Deva just uses the urban environment for his advantage. Since his goal is to take out the city he may approach different from how he did with the kyuubi. In konoha he was purposely creating a storm to attract Naruto.



if CIS was left on by the OP'er the odds of this man using the level of intelligence...you ascribed likely isn't a factor...



321zigzag said:


> As Han Solo and I said, Henge is your best friend. Chakra Rain may help.
> Now I am going by probability on the chance that decent intelligent Nagato won't stroll in with a ruckus.



he better henge into an average looking person as possible and keep his mouth shut..other wise he aint blending fershit


321zigzag said:


> Chibaku Tensei took place way outside Konoha. Those "mountain looking things" were bigger than the Hokage Mountain. But to be fair it may be multiple small mountain/hill things into a one huge one.



so..still no nuke then right


321zigzag said:


> Deva Path spent his time interrogating, fighting KAkashi then talking to Tsunade then floating very high and then going CST.



I'm curious how many times...he can nuke..since it seemed to shorten his life according to konan 


321zigzag said:


> He may do that or use Chibaku Tensei. Considering CT doesn't seem to have that delay drawback that might be better.



the one where he just knocks people around or..starts grabbing up massive chunks of shit?


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he can't henge..effectively when he speaks not the language nor knows nothing of the culture
> 
> he's also a sitting duck when he nukes



At the very least henge will make things easier. Too bad he doesn't have Human Path in the first scenario. 

When he is using Chou Shinra Tensei, he is a immobile for a little while.




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> if CIS was left on by the OP'er the odds of this man using the level of intelligence...you ascribed likely isn't a factor...



Actually it might. Because first, Nagato knows nothing of Los Angeles. Therefore it is necessary and practical for him to attempt some sort of reconnaissance. Whether he is good at it or not, he will be more likely cautious.

Mind you it will guarantee that Deva Path will last much longer in odds. But how much farther it goes is totally up to you. 

Konoha is a different situation. 




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he better henge into an average looking person as possible and keep his mouth shut..other wise he aint blending fershit



Considering that he is a "ninja" per sense taught with some "ninja" like behavior. I mean they all do actually its just mainly top tiers are more towards being flashy in moves. 

But you are right. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> so..still no nuke then right



Nuke helps but if Pain decides to go more of the cautious approach he will be wise to choose to where to nuke. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I'm curious how many times...he can nuke..since it seemed to shorten his life according to konan



Don't know but one CST didn't really weaken Nagato. And Pain fought for a long time in Konoha. 

Also you don't have to stand and float in the air for CST, its not a requirement although he is more prone to do that if he wants to invoke God like complex to LA.




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the one where he just knocks people around or..starts grabbing up massive chunks of shit?



CT is your latter option. Then Pain can just drop it.


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## Thor (Sep 26, 2010)

The Crips stomp.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> At the very least henge will make things easier. Too bad he doesn't have Human Path in the first scenario.
> 
> When he is using Chou Shinra Tensei, he is a immobile for a little while.



any time spent immobile is time LAPD can use to snipe


321zigzag said:


> Actually it might. Because first, Nagato knows nothing of Los Angeles. Therefore it is necessary and practical for him to attempt some sort of reconnaissance. Whether he is good at it or not, he will be more likely cautious.
> 
> Mind you it will guarantee that Deva Path will last much longer in odds. But how much farther it goes is totally up to you.
> 
> Konoha is a different situation.



with CIS on..i expect pein to need help tying his sandals and dressing himself...he has to be the...single most easily manipulated stooge...in comics/manga of the last two or so decades


321zigzag said:


> Considering that he is a "ninja" per sense taught with some "ninja" like behavior. I mean they all do actually its just mainly top tiers are more towards being flashy in moves.
> 
> But you are right.



true he;d be stealthy...if cis where off and be a holly terror



321zigzag said:


> Nuke helps but if Pain decides to go more of the cautious approach he will be wise to choose to where to nuke.



pein wont have a choice but to nuke evetually



321zigzag said:


> Don't know but one CST didn't really weaken Nagato. And Pain fought for a long time in Konoha.



it disrupted his chakra enough that it disabled his other bodies yes?



321zigzag said:


> Also you don't have to stand and float in the air for CST, its not a requirement although he is more prone to do that if he wants to invoke God like complex to LA.




if he's gonna compton..but the man kinda needs to be away from said impact no?


321zigzag said:


> CT is your latter option. Then Pain can just drop it.



seems like my initial assessment stands then he pancakes some neighborhoods then gets taken


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> any time spent immobile is time LAPD can use to snipe



That depends how well LAPD tracks him considering that they aren't expecting him at all. It also depends where Deva Path is and which and where he prefers to go around LA by. Also it depends how much LAPD is taking him seriously and etc. But, mind you. it doesn't take anything away from what you said but there are factors involved. 

But sniper bullets are the biggest threat. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> with CIS on..i expect pein to need help tying his sandals and dressing himself...he has to be the...single most easily manipulated stooge...in comics/manga of the last two or so decades



The only reason why he was so easily manipulated was because of his obsession with peace and how to accomplish it. He was a realist in rejecting Jiraiya's yet he may have had still wanting to believe the idealist route. 

Other than that he is fine, other than his mostly bland character. 




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> true he;d be stealthy...if cis where off and be a holly terror








The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pein wont have a choice but to nuke evetually



Key word eventually. It depends when he wants to do it and how far after Pain chooses to go stealthily and etc and what not. 




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it disrupted his chakra enough that it disabled his other bodies yes?



Nagato shuts down chakra to other 5 bodies temporarily for Deva to use CST. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> if he's gonna compton..but the man kinda needs to be away from said impact no?



Recall even when Deva was high up in the sky yet how deep the crater was. Shinra Tensei is an omnidirectional force if he chooses. It won't matter much to Deva if he chooses to be on the ground or near it I suppose. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> my initial assessment stands then he pancakes some neighborhoods then gets taken



Take it as you will. My only role for this thread was to attempt to provide different possible scenarios in terms of probability and how it might happen.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 26, 2010)

321zigzag said:


> That depends how well LAPD tracks him considering that they aren't expecting him at all. It also depends where Deva Path is and which and where he prefers to go around LA by. Also it depends how much LAPD is taking him seriously and etc. But, mind you. it doesn't take anything away from what you said but there are factors involved.
> 
> But sniper bullets are the biggest threat. ]



well if he nukes off the bat I'd imagine between the mass panic and scrambling to evac ans safeguard...he'd be low on the priority list

if he's just doing what he did with konoha then he should be in line of fire soon enough



321zigzag said:


> The only reason why he was so easily manipulated was because of his obsession with peace and how to accomplish it. He was a realist in rejecting Jiraiya's yet he may have had still wanting to believe the idealist route.
> 
> Other than that he is fine, other than his mostly bland character.



the recent chapter retcon by kishi not only made...half of the info we got on him his eyes and the senju and other shit..totally not sensicle any more

but made pein come off like a complete and absolute retard


321zigzag said:


> Key word eventually. It depends when he wants to do it and how far after Pain chooses to go stealthily and etc and what not.



his only chance of surviving is doing it




321zigzag said:


> Nagato shuts down chakra to other 5 bodies temporarily for Deva to use CST.



because of the amount of energy it takes



321zigzag said:


> Recall even when Deva was high up in the sky yet how deep the crater was. Shinra Tensei is an omnidirectional force if he chooses. It won't matter much to Deva if he chooses to be on the ground or near it I suppose.



well doing it to the sky has very little relevance besides maybe ganking choppers


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## 321zigzag (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> well if he nukes off the bat I'd imagine between the mass panic and scrambling to evac ans safeguard...he'd be low on the priority list



Quite so. But its all up to him when he does it. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> if he's just doing what he did with konoha then he should be in line of fire soon enough



Obviously although he really has no reason in the odds of him doing so with reasons obvious. Not to mention he is one body.




The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the recent chapter retcon by kishi not only made...half of the info we got on him his eyes and the senju and other shit..totally not sensible any more
> 
> but made pein come off like a complete and absolute retard



Other than the new revelations I don't see how it made him look like a retard. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> his only chance of surviving is doing it



Never denied that. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because of the amount of energy it takes


Of course. 



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> well doing it to the sky has very little relevance besides maybe ganking choppers



Considering he has no reason really to display god complex. Quite so.


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 26, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh my god pain can with maximum life threatening effort
> 
> nuke something the size of a few city blocks


you are heavily understimating konoha



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> I would have no problem rolling with that...except for it being so god damned constant..with him
> 
> which is weird because he can be totally consistent with kumo and the ,land of iron...but..not the main home town


mostly because he barely show them



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> people Reject fancalcs all the time when they come from biased sources...and I am totally within my right to completely disregard his numbers because they do not come from a canon source


, sir fan cal. are the thing in which the obd runs you see, you can't come here and reject a fan cal. because it is a fan cal. and expect us to debate


The Immortal WatchDog said:


> with CIS on..i expect pein to need help tying his sandals and dressing himself...he has to be the...single most easily manipulated stooge...in comics/manga of the last two or so decades


the sentry sir, the sentry, anyways conidering that he alone planned an assult into a main village I doubt he needs help tying his sandals, and considering half the fight was he being using surprise and stealth plus distraction I imagine he is familiar with the term 



> pein wont have a choice but to nuke evetually


a point


> it disrupted his chakra enough that it disabled his other bodies yes?


no he simply stopped usin them because he was going to use a large amount of chakra to make a point 




> if he's gonna compton..but the man kinda needs to be away from said impact no?


no he needs to be at the center


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## Crimson King (Sep 26, 2010)

What Pain?


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## reddogs52 (Sep 26, 2010)

*lol*

so, scenario 1 is stealth? What's stopping Pain from bringing the big gunz out? Almighty push, boom! Everyone is like "wtf? the russians?" 10 minutes later, boom! "shit no, the china peeps want their 7 billion daollars back!" 10 minutes later "it's global warming" and then a small pause where pain powers up CBT and OWNS the whole city wtf pwn style. Drops the mountain sized ball back and causes an earthquake the shit storms everyone left.

Even if someone shoots pain, who cares right? He wont die, he is dead. he's just a corpse. unless you put him through a meat grinder or something, he'll keep fucking your shit up.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> you are heavily understimating konoha



oh you again



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> mostly because he barely show them



that's not helping things



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> ], sir fan cal. are the thing in which the obd runs you see, you can't come here and reject a fan cal. because it is a fan cal. and expect us to debate



yes I totally can..people reject yours and unknowns all the time on the basis of you guys being massively biased...trolls

mind you estrecca is easily a thousand times the poster you are I am in no way comparing him to you..and it's totally within my right to do so

[





Blackfeather Dragon said:


> the sentry sir, the sentry, anyways conidering that he alone planned an assult into a main village I doubt he needs help tying his sandals, and considering half the fight was he being using surprise and stealth plus distraction I imagine he is familiar with the term



what makes you think any tactical genius involved showing up..and lolstomping making as loud and obvious a show as possible

a mile tall two year old could of done the same thing 



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> a point
> no he simply stopped usin them because he was going to use a large amount of chakra to make a point



that does not explain konan's warning him


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## Uncle Phantom (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh you again
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Your not even making sense anymore Watchdog. lol you don't even live in LA. I do and the LAPD has a hard enough time catching and killing ordinary drug dealers and the like. They have absolutly no chance of killing Pain. You act like the LAPD is some revered academy of peak humans who are all ; excellent snipers when in fact they are so far from it, policeman around the world constantly make fun of how much they actually troll the city of LA.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 27, 2010)

The argument is that Pain is just going to kill LA via moving fast since he needs to stay still when using ST or CST. Pain will eventually die from multiple bullets through the head.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Your not even making sense anymore Watchdog. lol you don't even live in LA. I do and the LAPD has a hard enough time catching and killing ordinary drug dealers and the like. They have absolutly no chance of killing Pain. You act like the LAPD is some revered academy of peak humans who are *all ; excellent snipers when in fact they are so far from it, policeman around the world constantly make fun of how much they actually troll the city of LA.*



everything else you said..was stupid....but that last bit is patently wrong..or at least it used to be...Germany England..France and Brazil used to send their police SWAT units to LA to train under the LAPD;s SWAT unit

in fact I'm not sure thats changed..that sort of speaks volumes for that particular unit

your also entirely missing my point..in regards to why e'll get his head blown off


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## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> The argument is that Pain is just going to kill LA via moving fast since he needs to stay still when using ST or CST. Pain will eventually die from multiple bullets through the head.



the argument is that LAPD and gangs will somehow get superhuman reactions and shoot something they cannot see....

do you guys have any fucking idea how hard it is to hit a STATIONARY target from a few hundreds away let alone a transonic human-sized moving target?

Unless the LAPD corner pain in a box and get a few hundred miniguns to fill the ENTIRE air with lead there is no fucking chance pein is going to be hit by a bullet

and LOL watchdog, by your logic 90% of all HST calculations are invalid since they are mostly made by people wishing to make the verse the calc is from "stronger"

well at the very least we know that pein will last longer in LA than whitebeard since whitebeard stays even MORE stationary that pein. He gonna die from a few dozen sniper rounds to the head by godly LAPD snipers shooting from kilometers away on skyscrapers as soon as the match starts


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> *the argument is that LAPD and gangs will somehow get superhuman reactions and shoot something they cannot see*....
> 
> do you guys have any fucking idea how hard it is to hit a STATIONARY target from a few hundreds away let alone a transonic human-sized moving target?
> 
> ...



ASSUMING pain will move NONSTOP.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> ASSUMING pain will move NONSTOP.



dude if u were in a fight would you stop?

unless u are behind cover u run like a madman for as long as you can

and im pretty sure after the first few rounds are fired at him (most likely missing, it will probably be automatic rifle/pistol rounds going at him first, and unless they are only a few dozens metres away it is highly likely the gangsters/LAPD will miss, since pein would be going for them anyway. Even if he does get hit, people usually aim for the torso first and since pein's a dead body, not much effect) pein will start to realize the type of attack the LA people use are a form of high-speed projectile and move accordingly to reduce the chance of being hit.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

1, going by by what logic are HST calcs...equal to canon? under what obligation are any of forced to accept those cals we do because it makes it easier...we have every right to reject them and do when it comes from biased posters

2, peins only chance at tkaing the city is his big guns..while he;s doing this he is stationary and a target


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## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 1, going by by what logic are HST calcs...equal to canon? under what obligation are any of forced to accept those cals we do because it makes it easier...we have every right to reject them and do when it comes from biased posters
> 
> 2, peins only chance at tkaing the city is his big guns..while he;s doing this he is stationary and a target



pein doesnt have to go all out and bust his biggest moves.

a normal shinra tensei should be able to knock out a few dozen houses, maybe a block if he knocks out the supports and collapses the buildings.

from what we have seen, pein only stops minimally for a normal shinra tensei, and most of the time he is stopping is during its duration anyways. 

would be just pein running around stabbing people, shinra tensei, run and stab for 5 more seconds and shinra again, rinse and repeat.

its gonna take him a very long time, but with nagato's chakra reserves i can see pein even tually clearing out the LA city itself before running out (probably not the metropolis.)

and besides, if pein takes cover he can still use CT and CST, its just CST would be less effective (a ground burst is weaker than an airburst). If he hides in the rubble and regains his chakra he can then move on to the next section and clear that out.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 1, going by by what logic are HST calcs...equal to canon? under what obligation are any of forced to accept those cals we do because it makes it easier...we have every right to reject them and do when it comes from biased posters



OBD accepts fancalcs, thats wat makes us different from other battleforums.

plus, deciding whether a calcer is biased is itself a biased/opinionated decision. I've seen people make logical, sensible, decent comments/calcs but get laughed out becuase they have a reputation for bias. people see that its them who post and automatically assume its full of shit (contrary to what you might expect, there has been times when unknown has made sense before.)


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## 321zigzag (Sep 27, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> The argument is that Pain is just going to kill LA via moving fast since he needs to stay still when using ST or CST. Pain will eventually die from multiple bullets through the head.



I will repost this. 

That depends how well LAPD tracks him considering that they aren't expecting him at all. It also depends where Deva Path is and which and where he prefers to go around LA by. Also it depends how much LAPD is taking him seriously and etc. But, mind you. it doesn't take anything away from what you said but there are factors involved. 

But sniper bullets are the biggest threat



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 1, going by by what logic are HST calcs...equal to canon?



Well the Pain is supersonic is coming from the more FRS 1 second crossing of the crater. 
Mind you the whole scenario of 5 seconds is retarded yet it has given one of the very few plausible quantifiable feats. In fact many panels were dedicated to that 1 second crossing. 

Then again also with the "Mach 7" attack speed and Gated Gai. It just confirms more towards of how OBD treated Naruto with a handful of supersonic movement speed, who are all top tier in movement. 

So it doesn't change much for me. 

Although if you want reactions and reflexes only then that will increase to a larger number of course. 


Although yes Immortal Watchdog, most fan calculations are null and void because of heavy subjectivity of what not. You know what I mean. After all you convinced me of more towards that belief.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> OBD accepts fancalcs, thats wat makes us different from other battleforums.]



as far as I know only one forum online bans the use of fan calcs as analysis for evidence...every where else its..okay.

there is how ever no mod enforced..policy regarding this..as posters we have the right to choose...in this case I choose not too and within my right to entirely dismiss estreccas presentation as it is an edited third party non canon source



pikachuwei said:


> plus, deciding whether a calcer is biased is itself a biased/opinionated decision. I've seen people make logical, sensible, decent comments/calcs but get laughed out becuase they have a reputation for bias. people see that its them who post and automatically assume its full of shit (contrary to what you might expect, there has been times when unknown has made sense before.)



there is no defending..some of the most ardent trolls on this board nor...using them as a justification for why I should accept some ones math over on panel evidence



pikachuwei said:


> pein doesnt have to go all out and bust his biggest moves.
> 
> a normal shinra tensei should be able to knock out a few dozen houses, maybe a block if he knocks out the supports and collapses the buildings.
> 
> ...




nagato..would likely need to use the big crush tech..a half a dozen times to do hiroshima level damage to...the city...chakra reserves..expended on a level far less then that to revive at most...thirty or forty thousand people killed him



321zigzag said:


> Well the Pain is supersonic is coming from the more FRS 1 second crossing of the crater.
> Mind you the whole scenario of 5 seconds is retarded yet it has given one of the very few plausible quantifiable feats. In fact many panels were dedicated to that 1 second crossing.



right how ever I'm talking about the emoments where the man has to pause...and it being disastrous to him

or LA just simply herding him into "high crime rate neighborhoods" if gates was still in charge and letting him deplete himself blasting the fuck out of there

when he's on the move...its obvious hititng him will be night impossible
[


321zigzag said:


> Then again also with the "Mach 7" attack speed and Gated Gai. It just confirms more towards of how OBD treated Naruto with a handful of supersonic movement speed, who are all top tier in movement.



Gai being the greatest hand to hand and physical strength specialist around..sure is mighty fast

I think he has one of the top three best speed feats in naruto



321zigzag said:


> Although if you want reactions and reflexes only then that will increase to a larger number of course.



aint disputing peins speed



321zigzag said:


> Although yes Immortal Watchdog, most fan calculations are null and void because of heavy subjectivity of what not. You know what I mean. After all you convinced me of more towards that belief.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> there is no defending..some of the most ardent trolls on this board nor...using them as a justification for why I should accept some ones math over on panel evidence
> 
> 
> 
> ...



troll is the wrong word, yes there are some trolls on this forum but most of teh peopl you define as "trolls" simply have a very different point of view from yours. 

and calcs are generally made USING on panel evidence (scaling, etc) so i dont know what u are trying to get at

and lol at high crime rate neighbourhoods doing shit to pein. if the citizens of LA are in character one shinra tensei and the fact that pein is clearly superhuman would make most of the gangsters shit their pants and stay the fuck away. Heck,even all but the most dedicated LAPD would ditch after its apparent they are facing something far beyond human.


----------



## lambda (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> well at the very least we know that pein will last longer in LA than whitebeard since whitebeard stays even MORE stationary that pein. He gonna die from a few dozen sniper rounds to the head by godly LAPD snipers shooting from kilometers away on skyscrapers as soon as the match starts


Actually the first thing that would happen would be WB sinking L.A.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> troll is the wrong word, yes there are some trolls on this forum but most of teh peopl you define as "trolls" simply have a very different point of view from yours.]



uhh no..unknown is a clown and a troll


pikachuwei said:


> and calcs are generally made USING on panel evidence (scaling, etc) so i dont know what u are trying to get at



a fans interpretation on whats occurring using numbers to make it official attempting too quantify something that is fiction..and doing so with a work of fiction known to be low on quality..widely inconsistent colored with author biased and generally unreliable  



pikachuwei said:


> and lol at high crime rate neighbourhoods doing shit to pein. if the citizens of LA are in character one shinra tensei and the fact that pein is clearly superhuman would make most of the gangsters shit their pants and stay the fuck away. Heck,even all but the most dedicated LAPD would ditch after its apparent they are facing something far beyond human.



you dont understand what I meant...there I meant the city fathers being dickish enough to literally use that place as a meat shield to cause pein to deplete chakra busting..them down...then either waiting until he dies..or taking his head off when he pauses

not "zomg gangstas gonna rush da ninja" more "its good we have all these thugs to toss at pein as a sacrifice/distraction while we wait him out"

this is a scenario match think a little...its no da bloods vs pein its the city of LA doing everything they possibly can to ensure victory...including if needed offering up entire neighborhoods as meat shields


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> uhh no..unknown is a clown and a troll
> 
> 
> a fans interpretation on whats occurring using numbers to make it official attempting too quantify something that is fiction..and doing so with a work of fiction known to be low on quality..widely inconsistent colored with author biased and generally unreliable
> ...



just because someone has different views doesnt mean they are a troll. Trolls purposely go around pissing others off.

lol city fathers... badly worded example aside, does LA have knowledge? do they know the concept of chakra adn that pein will run out of chakra?


----------



## Masa (Sep 27, 2010)

Honestly, LA is spread out enough that Pain could probably solo the city by stabbing everyone with a kunai individually.  If he encounters a group he can throw an exploding tag.  No need to waste chakra on one of his bigger attacks.  

There is no way a sniper or anybody with a gun can target him.  He is too fast.  Imagine a car going at say 100mph on a city street.  By the time you realize that you have to shoot at it, that car is already a block away.  By the time you raise your gun to aim, the car is several blocks away and probably out of sight.  Pain is much faster than 100mph and much smaller than a car, not to mention his reactions are far greater than any human so even if a human could possibly target him, he could always change direction before the shot is fired.  If he keeps moving and hides when he needs rest, there is not much anybody in LA can do.


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

lambda said:


> Actually the first thing that would happen would be WB sinking L.A.



WB just stands there and doesnt run! sniper bullets by godly LAPD snipers kill him from kilometres away duh. what shit are u smoking


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> WB just stands there and doesnt run! sniper bullets by godly LAPD snipers kill him from kilometres away duh. what shit are u smoking



white beard being superior to pein in every conceivable way....quakes the san andreas fault and breaks the US in half

seriously..WB can level LA new york..hong kong or what ever

pein can't pein is also shit to OP top tiers


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> white beard being superior to pein in every conceivable way....quakes the san andreas fault and breaks the US in half
> 
> seriously..WB can level LA new york..hong kong or what ever
> 
> pein can't pein is also shit to OP top tiers



Pfft. like he can make it. Whitebeard gets multiple sniper bullets through the skull do to him being stationary. He's a bigger target than Pain and even less immobile.

Stop the wank 

Fucking lol at Pain's CST x6 being = to the Hiroshima bomb. Honestly where the fuck do you get that shit from? That's makes absolutely no sense if you looked at the damage CST did.

lol city fathers. You honestly haven't been to LA have you? Those guys aren't sticking around while Pain blows shit up. Thier the most cowardly of them all. Thier on the next plane outta thier, there not sticking around for some strategy.


----------



## Es (Sep 27, 2010)

The Chakra Fro smokes the big one


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Pfft. like he can make it. Whitebeard gets multiple sniper bullets through the skull do to him being stationary. He's a bigger target than Pain and even less immobile.
> 
> Stop the wank ]



whitebeard is a dozen or so more times durable then pein...whitebeard could one shot...pein...while tanking amaterestu...and likely be fine 


The Chakra Fro said:


> Fucking lol at Pain's CST x6 being = to the Hiroshima bomb. Honestly where the fuck do you get that shit from? That's makes absolutely no sense if you looked at the damage CST did.






The Chakra Fro said:


> lol city fathers. You honestly haven't been to LA have you? Those guys aren't sticking around while Pain blows shit up. Thier the most cowardly of them all. Thier on the next plane outta thier, there not sticking around for some strategy.



...you completely fucking missed the point you can't read properly...I'm starting to wonder if your not sasuona dupe


----------



## CrazyMoronX (Sep 27, 2010)

Deva can fly around, nuke a chunk of the city, go underground and recharge.

Rinse and repeat.

To help him hide out he can just henge.

Deva solos.


----------



## C-Moon (Sep 27, 2010)

> Pain vs Los Angeles



It'll be like Independence Day without the giant ships.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh you again


never left really, anyways lets move on


> yes I totally can..people reject yours and unknowns all the time on the basis of you guys being massively biased...trolls


sorry what, I really don't need to take lectures from the likes you, the word troll is meaningless since you will call troll to anyone who disagree with you, I really don't care what you say on bias and trolling, the guy who thinks humans are going to hit a super human moving at supersonic + speeds, lol IWD 




> mind you estrecca is easily a thousand times the poster you are I am in no way comparing him to you..and it's totally within my right to do so


your right to troll and flame, of course it is, now lets keep this to an adult level conversation, lets see if you can keep up with that 



> what makes you think any tactical genius involved showing up..and lolstomping making as loud and obvious a show as possible


signal where I said he is a tactical genius, anyways pain is good at tactics, because if you had read my post I wouldn't have to explain this to you


he creates a distraction
he send the weakers, and more one on one type bodies to do the dirty job



> a mile tall two year old could of done the same thing


so this the best way you can downplay the feat, mind you I don't think the OBD downplays, just you



pikachuwei said:


> the argument is that LAPD and gangs will somehow get superhuman reactions and shoot something they cannot see....
> 
> do you guys have any fucking idea how hard it is to hit a STATIONARY target from a few hundreds away let alone a transonic human-sized moving target?
> 
> ...


hey is only IWD, it is something you can expect from him



lambda said:


> Actually the first thing that would happen would be WB sinking L.A.


superhumans snipers are  



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> white beard being superior to pein in every conceivable way....quakes the san andreas fault and breaks the US in half


hey of course he can, he knows where the san andreas fault is for starters 



Gamma Akutabi said:


> It'll be like Independence Day without the giant ships.


oh lol at the idea


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> whitebeard is a dozen or so more times durable then pein...whitebeard could one shot...pein...while tanking amaterestu...and likely be fine
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Prove it. Whitebeard's strength is irrefutable. However Strength nor Stamina=/= Durability. Whitebeard has no durabilty feats worth any merit. Disagree ? Provide scans.Whitebeard has gotten hurt or injured by everything in that war.Powerscaling isn't accepted. These are your own words amirite?


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> white beard being superior to pein in every conceivable way....quakes the san andreas fault and breaks the US in half
> 
> seriously..WB can level LA new york..hong kong or what ever
> 
> pein can't pein is also shit to OP top tiers



he still gets shot in the head and dies

besides whitebeard isnt so superior in destructive power that he can level LA before he dies

iirc it took a few hundred pirate era pistol shots and cannon balls to kill whitebeard.

considering normal assault rifles shoot at like 500 rpm, a SWAT team can riddle him with enough bullets to kill him within the space of 30 seconds, less if they bring in a chopper with heavier guns. Sniper bullets in his head fuck whitebeard up good. 

Whitebeard's durability is shit (gets injured by normal bullets) its just his damage soak is huge (can take hundreds of bullets before dying). but then modern weapons will chew through his damage soak in at most minutes.

plus if we go by the on-panel evidence that IWD loves so much whitebeard doesnt have any movement speed feats at all (we only give him high speed due to powerscaling with other characters whos speed were given by the calcs that IWD hates) so any grandmother and their 2 year old grandson can shoot him with a gun.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> he still gets shot in the head and dies
> 
> besides whitebeard isnt so superior in destructive power that he can level LA before he dies
> 
> ...



That's funny.


----------



## kyrax12 (Sep 27, 2010)

whoa whoa how did whitebeard get into this?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> he still gets shot in the head and dies



considering he was able to function for a bit with a portion of his head taken off..and no one in the match can hurt him that bad

so what



pikachuwei said:


> besides whitebeard isnt so superior in destructive power that he can level LA before he dies



a fully blood lusted non holding back WB? yes he is



pikachuwei said:


> iirc it took a few hundred pirate era pistol shots and cannon balls to kill whitebeard.



...if you really think OP armaments compare to fourteenth-seventeenth century weaponry your nuts



pikachuwei said:


> ]considering normal assault rifles shoot at like 500 rpm, a SWAT team can riddle him with enough bullets to kill him within the space of 30 seconds, less if they bring in a chopper with heavier guns. Sniper bullets in his head fuck whitebeard up good.



super human class 50's backed up by at least a four guys who could solo akatsuki and almost every hidden villages..couldn't easily kill him why would the LAPD be so lucky


pikachuwei said:


> Whitebeard's durability is shit (gets injured by normal bullets) its just his damage soak is huge (can take hundreds of bullets before dying). but then modern weapons will chew through his damage soak in at most minutes.



your talking out of your ass



pikachuwei said:


> plus if we go by the on-panel evidence that IWD loves so much whitebeard doesnt have any movement speed feats at all (we only give him high speed due to powerscaling with other characters whos speed were given by the calcs that IWD hates) so any grandmother and their 2 year old grandson can shoot him with a gun.



considering I never have ever argued in favor of WB having superspeed and indeed opposed it in the Thing vs WB thread...why are you even bringing this up?



kyrax12 said:


> whoa whoa how did whitebeard get into this?



sasuonos dupe..is wanking again



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> never left really, anyways lets move on



then depart the thread...you contribute nothing positive 




Blackfeather Dragon said:


> Sorry what, I really don't need to take lectures from the likes you, the word troll is meaningless since you will call troll to anyone who disagree with you, I really don't care what you say on bias and trolling, the guy who thinks humans are going to hit a super human moving at supersonic + speeds, lol IWD



you have been caught multiple times by myself and many other posters red handed lying distorting evidence making up stories warping posts and making fradulant calcs

as has unknown..anything you two contribute is automatically invalid



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> your right to troll and flame, of course it is, now lets keep this to an adult level conversation, lets see if you can keep up with that



when your capable of functioning like something other then a chimp on crack...we'll do that
[





Blackfeather Dragon said:


> signal where I said he is a tactical genius, anyways pain is good at tactics, because if you had read my post I wouldn't have to explain this to you



and it completely goes over your head


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> so this the best way you can downplay the feat, mind you I don't think the OBD downplays, just you



more bullshit



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> hey of course he can, he knows where the san andreas fault is for starters
> a



the guys offensive power is several dozen times the amount pein can bring to bare....his quakes are omnidirectional meaning he does not need to know where it is..he can affect many many miles around him unlike pein..he can legitimately kill millions

and unlike pein he actually has durability feats that negate anything short of a full on air strike



The Chakra Fro said:


> Es thinks looking at a rep meter and spouting unoriginal jokes equal to being a quality debater



compared to you..it absolutely does


----------



## 321zigzag (Sep 27, 2010)

I can see this thread is still going on Ladies and Gentlemen. 

*sips Green Tea*


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 27, 2010)

Really how can norma peoplel even stands a chance against Pain.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> considering he was able to function for a bit with a portion of his head taken off..and no one in the match can hurt him that bad
> 
> so what
> 
> ...



Okay, let's wrap it up guy's. When IWD has to resort to flaming, name-calling, faulty, sloppy, immature opinions and claim them as "evidence", it's hilariously obvious, this is his way of conceding.

Sasuono's dupe, chimp on crack, fan calc is bullshit blub blub blub herp-derp, we heard it all. We provided evidence and the other side provided insults. It's obvious who wins, I don't even know how this reaches 9 pages. Pain roflstomps LAPD and anybody with a middle school level of intellect will easily understand this.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> :
> 
> Okay, wrap it up guy's. When IWD has to resort to flaming, name-calling, faulty, sloppy, immature opinions and claim them as "evidence", it's hilariously obvious, this is his way of conceding.



invoking the rules..is flamimg?  rejecting non canon bullshit and calling posters out in their Biased is...conceding? 



The Chakra Fro said:


> :Sasuono's dupe, chimp on crack, fan calc is bullshit blub blub blub herp-derp, we heard it all. We provided evidence and the other side provided insults. It's obvious who wins, I don't even know how this reaches 9 pages. Pain roflstomps LAPD and anybody with a middle school level of intellect will easily understand this.



1, your a dupe or some one similar to him you make the same mistakes have the same reading comprehension problems and distort as he did...

2, you provided no evidence..you submitted fan calcs... non official stuff from posters who have a questionable history...i am within my right to reject

3, none of you have adressed the leob factor..as for why your main piece of evidence is not canon



Devil Kings said:


> Really how can norma peoplel even stands a chance against Pain.



the same reason why RL almost always stomps hst factions..in threads

better brains weaponry..and sheer number


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

people seem to be under the impression that I'm suggesting an easy win for the LA

I'm pretty sure he'll kill the fuck out of at the very least half the city..but its going to taske him a long time....I'm disputing the outrageous power level people are ascribing his..techniques..and the totally inflated numbers for villages


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 27, 2010)

Tell me something IWD what would the average person do if you walked up to them and displays super powers like Pain.

1. They pick up some weapons, and attack Pain.
2. They form a mob, and attack Pain.
3. Retreat and coordinates there attacks using a full proof plan.
4. Or they run like the scared headless little chicken shit, the average human's really are.


----------



## Dead Precedence (Sep 27, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> Tell me something IWD what would the average person do if you walked up to them and displays super powers like Pain.
> 
> 1. They pick up some weapons, and attack Pain.
> 2. They form a mob, and attack Pain.
> ...



Pretty sure bloodlust is on by default so them fleeing in fear won't happen.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 27, 2010)

Dead Precedence said:


> Pretty sure bloodlust is on by default so them fleeing in fear won't happen.



The average person would still run, bloodlust or not.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> Tell me something IWD what would the average person do if you walked up to them and displays super powers like Pain.
> 
> 1. They pick up some weapons, and attack Pain.
> 2. They form a mob, and attack Pain.
> ...



good thing...the average citizens are nothing but meatshields..for the proper authorities in a blood lusted scenario

and underblood lust...each side is going to do every single thing they can possible do to acheive victory using any and all means

so I would assume..if they ran..it would be..under said setting..to mount an cordinated assault..with either equal or superior tactics..to peins own idiotic ass


----------



## Dead Precedence (Sep 27, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> The average person would still run, bloodlust or not.



Except that's not how bloodlust works.

Link removed


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 27, 2010)

Are yall also discussing  tactics not rooted in simple destruction and more subtle like henge and inflitration over the course of weeks with  executed hit and run strategies of CST aimed at focal law enforcement points or groups? I don't really want to shuffle through the pages to find out, though I read some page 9 and it doesn't look like it. 

Ps: What is the L.A. sewer system like?

Edit: The above would probably be more interesting than to debate than Pein running around randomly using ST/etc. 

Edit 2: I wonder if over the course of inflitration if Pein could learn about how our technology operates. lol. Imagine if Pein became an integrated member of LA that gave up looking for him after searching for ten years, only to cause what I'd presume is now some kind of quasi isolated economy cut off from the rest of the world (fr location purposes or something of the thread) to collapase. 

...

Than after that, Pein suddenly announced to the wolrd, having acquired internet and learning yo use youtube, that Ye will know true pein. Soon after having tipped his hand, and basking in his gloriously hubris, Pein would get shot and killed in his apartment because his neighbour heard him doing the video on youtube. :rofl


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Are yall also disccusing  tactics not rooted in simple destruction and more subtle like henge and inflitration over the course of weeks with rather easily executed hit and run strategies of CST aimed at focal law enforcement points? I don't really want to shuffle through the pages to find out, though I read some of the last page 9.



well OP;er forgot to turn off CIS...so peins really badly handicapped

he'd aslo have to speak english and know about LA culture to fully infiltrate



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Ps: What is the L.A. sewer system like?



well a great place to hide actually but considering nagatos poor health and the fact that he has zero immunity..to our worlds diseases

thats the the best and worse possible place for him to be


----------



## Chainwave (Sep 27, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> good thing...the average citizens are nothing but meatshields..for the proper authorities in a blood lusted scenario
> 
> and underblood lust...each side is going to do every single thing they can possible do to acheive victory using any and all means
> 
> so I would assume..if they ran..it would be..under said setting..to mount an cordinated assault..with either equal or superior tactics..to peins own idiotic ass



Average citizens being a factor? Henge and blend in, now what?

He doesn't need any to learn any language, not only can he stay silent, he can also transform into an object like Naruto did with a shuriken.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 27, 2010)

Chainwave said:


> Average citizens being a factor? Henge and blend in, now what?
> 
> He doesn't need any to learn any language, not only can he stay silent, he can also transform into an object like Naruto did with a shuriken.



which buys him more time but does not ensure his survival

fuck CV's got me a mental image of pein on 4chan


----------



## Chainwave (Sep 27, 2010)

He will make you know true pain.... through image spam.


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> considering he was able to function for a bit with a portion of his head taken off..and no one in the match can hurt him that bad
> 
> 
> 
> s



1) a sniper rifle will probably take a small chunk off whitebeard's head. Yes, he will probably survive one sniper bullet but about 5 or 10 through his head will kill him. since there will obviously be dozens of LAPD godly snipers aiming at his head, whitebeard dies after a few volleys at most

2)  





> ...if you really think OP armaments compare to fourteenth-seventeenth century weaponry your nuts



we assume that they are similar to 14th century weapons because of the way they function and what they look like. We are not gonna ascribe a fodder marine's gun the stats of a modern assault rifle just for your pleasure.

3)





> super human class 50's backed up by at least a four guys who could solo akatsuki and almost every hidden villages..couldn't easily kill him why would the LAPD be so lucky



the fact that the AUTHOR himself stated it took hundreds of bullets and cannon balls to kill him (along with a few sword stabs) means that whitebeard can be injured and KILLED by conventional weaponary the LAPD have. And as i addressed above, there is more reason to believe modern guns are > OP guns, LAPD will probably be able to kill WB quicker, thus less chance for WB to do damage.

4) 





> your talking out of your ass


i see you have absolutely no idea what "durability" and "endurance" means

Durability is measuring how powerful an attack one can take before getting injured. jozu has high durability, being made of diamond it is very hard to injure him. Whitebeard has shit low level superhuman human durability, his flesh and blood is not noticably tougher than normal humans, he can get injured by bullets from OP handguns and rifles which are probably not as strong as modern ones. the most impressive durability feat whitebeard has is taking cannonballs without getting his body annihilated. but he can still be injured by small-arms fire.

Endurance is how much damage you can take before you die. Whitebeard has very high endurance, he was able to take hundreds of bullets and cannonballs and sword stabs before he died.

Endurance and durability are two very different things. Think of durability like "defense" stat and endurance as "health" stat. if you have very high defense, weak attacks will do low, perhaps even "0" damage to you. If you have very high hp, say 10000, you may take "10" damage from the same attack but since ur HP is so high it takes very long for them to kill you

Whitebeard has low "defense" stats (his durability is low, can get hurt by small-arms fire) but very high "HP" stats (takes lots of bullets etc to kill him)

okay ive found teh original OP page



it says WB took 152 smallarms bullets, 267 stabs and 46 cannonballs before he died.

lets assume for your benefit OP bullets = modern pistol/submachinegun/rifle bullets. Stabs equal.... say 10 bullets each and cannon balls equal 50 bullets (rough estimates, but bear with me here)

that totals 5122 modern rounds (i assume to the chest) before WB dies. that may seem a lot, but modern assault rifles have firing rate of sumthing like 500 rounds per minute. 11 men shooting at whitebeard on full auto for one minute (assuming no reload) can kill him. obviously though they will get killed by whitebeard after maybe getting 10 shots in each, but obviously there are more than 11 men with assault rifles in LA. plus factor in sniper rounds goign in WB's head and he really isnt going to last very long.



> considering I never have ever argued in favor of WB having superspeed and indeed opposed it in the Thing vs WB thread...why are you even bringing this up?



im just trying to prove that your reasoning for arguing pein losing (no proof of superhuman speeds so people can shoot him, he has to stand still to use his stronger attacks so he gets shot more) is faulty so i am trying to prove that going by your standards Whitebeard who is superior in just about every aspect to pein will die just as easily.


----------



## Final Giku Tenshou (Sep 28, 2010)

Pain gets sodomized to hell and back again, he's got no way to compete at all unless he starts off with CT, and even then that's a big maybe.


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 28, 2010)

Final Giku Tenshou said:


> Pain gets sodomized to hell and back again, he's got no way to compete at all unless he starts off with CT, and even then that's a big maybe.


Any reason at all why you think this?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> 1) a sniper rifle will probably take a small chunk off whitebeard's head. Yes, he will probably survive one sniper bullet but about 5 or 10 through his head will kill him. since there will obviously be dozens of LAPD godly snipers aiming at his head, whitebeard dies after a few volleys at most]



or he just ya know reduces miles and miles of the city to rubbel causes a few tsunamis powerful enough to affect japan to a small extent...and goes and has a beer



pikachuwei said:


> 2)
> 
> *we assume that they are similar to 14th century weapons because of the way they function and what they look like.* We are not gonna ascribe a fodder marine's gun the stats of a modern assault rifle just for your pleasure.



some nuclear bombs look like dildos, some lighters look like guns...some people like absolute bad asses but end up being total chumps...whats your fucking point? that is absolutely stupid reasoning especially when you consider any one with basic understanding of weaponry from that era would know..there is absolutely no way an ancient flint lock pistol is capable of harming any of the major characters in OP...unless you think four hundred years ago we spontaneously developed the technology to injure.things capable of taking the force required to level a small island to the face with no damage what so ever..in hand gun form then..complerely forgot about it

because fuck...aside from those new fifty cal ubber sniper rifles...I'm pretty sure all hand held weaponry is completely incapable of replicating that now adays

man Da vinchi was a fucking Doom level genius!

I'm pretty sure fourteenth century flint lock pistols couldn't penetrate luffy's eye lid...

much less WB's massively more durable and powerful body



pikachuwei said:


> 3)
> 
> the fact that the AUTHOR himself stated it took hundreds of bullets and cannon balls to kill him (along with a few sword stabs) means that whitebeard can be injured and KILLED by conventional weaponary the LAPD have. And as i addressed above, there is more reason to believe modern guns are > OP guns, LAPD will probably be able to kill WB quicker, thus less chance for WB to do damage.



again bullet made to specifically kill superhumans



pikachuwei said:


> 4)
> i see you have absolutely no idea what "durability" and "endurance" means



oh thats a laugh



pikachuwei said:


> Durability is measuring how powerful an attack one can take before getting injured. jozu has high durability, being made of diamond it is very hard to injure him. Whitebeard has shit low level superhuman human durability, his flesh and blood is not noticably tougher than normal humans, he can get injured by bullets from OP handguns and rifles which are probably not as strong as modern ones. the most impressive durability feat whitebeard has is taking cannonballs without getting his body annihilated. but he can still be injured by small-arms fire.



durability is the consistent showings of a characters ability to tank various things of various degrees

an M1 abrahams tank is going to one shot WB...a few missiles will

a bunch of NYPD snipers wont



pikachuwei said:


> Endurance is how much damage you can take before you die. Whitebeard has very high endurance, he was able to take hundreds of bullets and cannonballs and sword stabs before he died.



err thats not endurance thats damage soak maybe you should stop lecturing now....since ya know..ya just fucked up



pikachuwei said:


> Endurance and durability are two very different things. Think of durability like "defense" stat and endurance as "health" stat. if you have very high defense, weak attacks will do low, perhaps even "0" damage to you. If you have very high hp, say 10000, you may take "10" damage from the same attack but since ur HP is so high it takes very long for them to kill you


thank you for the completely useless info I already knew and evidently more so then you



pikachuwei said:


> Whitebeard has low "defense" stats (his durability is low, can get hurt by small-arms fire) but very high "HP" stats (takes lots of bullets etc to kill him)



his durability is not low..that fucker did not soak ancient bullets barely able to penetrate plate armor...or thick wood...not when far weaker characters consider being blasted through bedrock....a minor annoyance

how in the fuck is slow ass weak flint lock caliber weaponry hurting that? _are you of your mind?!_



pikachuwei said:


> okay ive found teh original OP page
> 
> 
> 
> it says WB took 152 smallarms bullets, 267 stabs and 46 cannonballs before he died.



OP standard caliber weaponry yes..not fucking ancient flintlock pistols


pikachuwei said:


> lets assume for your benefit OP bullets = modern pistol/submachinegun/rifle bullets. Stabs equal.... say 10 bullets each and cannon balls equal 50 bullets (rough estimates, but bear with me here)



thank you..for showing me you know how to count



pikachuwei said:


> that totals 5122 modern rounds (i assume to the chest) before WB dies. that may seem a lot, but modern assault rifles have firing rate of sumthing like 500 rounds per minute. 11 men shooting at whitebeard on full auto for one minute (assuming no reload) can kill him. obviously though they will get killed by whitebeard after maybe getting 10 shots in each, but obviously there are more than 11 men with assault rifles in LA. plus factor in sniper rounds goign in WB's head and he really isnt going to last very long.



this is fucking retarded



pikachuwei said:


> im just trying to prove that your reasoning for arguing pein losing (no proof of superhuman speeds so people can shoot him, he has to stand still to use his stronger attacks so he gets shot more) is faulty so i am trying to prove that going by your standards Whitebeard who is superior in just about every aspect to pein will die just as easily.



what the fuck are you talking about? your sitting here talking out of your ass...is what your doing first of all pein does have speed feats...the problem isn't that genius the problem is our tech can hit far out of his visual range negating this advantage...CIS is on meaning he'll act his usual retarded self...and his reaction time was none to impressive

and that to do his nastiest moves he has to remain stationary and it seems to take a good deal out of him opening him up to attack

what your doing isn't even remotely the same thing its you not bothering to actually read and just joining a band wagon and rushing a poster with no fucking clue..what he's talking about...and a twisted distortion of said posters logic in a troll post..does not..a valid point make

mother of god..son


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *snip*



first of all, swearing gets you nowhere

Second WB has never shown the ability to reduce miles and miles of city to rubble instantly. It took WB most of the duration of the marineford battle to heavily damage the majority of buildings in marineford and marineford is only abotu 2 km in diameter

third, it has always been the assumption that OP guns were similar to probably 18th century weapons

in fact if i remember correctly, ALL the cannon balls and rifle bullets ever shown in OP were BALLS. If you know one iota about fireams you know ball rounds <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< rifle rounds.

made for killing superhumans my ass. I laugh at how OP can make giant HQs and lazer cannons and yet still have unrifled weapons for their soldiers.

instead of assuming that OMG THE BULLETS HURT SO AND SO WHO ARE VERY STRONG SO THEREFORE THE BULLETS MUST BE SUPER GODLY HAX!!! 

with occams razor we just assume that the people the bullet harm arent THAT tough?

and fyi bullets wont hurt luffy's eyelid because hes, y'know, made of rubber? luffy's invulnerability to projectiles like bullets has been around since the beginning of OP. Luffy is far more durable against bullets than whitebeard is.

damage soak = endurance, ive already been through this discussion with God Movement and waka, both of whom seem to exhibit more intelligence in discussions than you. Most OBDers are just too retarded to understand the difference between durability and endurance, 99% of durability feats are in fact endurance feats. (meruem tanking a nuke was mostly a endurance feat, he got very badly injured, but was able to soak up enough damage without dying. Jozu tanking mihawk's slash is a durability feat since jozu wasnt injured)

and i DID say that i was making very rough estimations for the bullet calcs, but i was only trying to make it easier for you to understand.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 28, 2010)

Final Giku Tenshou said:


> Pain gets sodomized to hell and back again, he's got no way to compete at all unless he starts off with CT, and even then that's a big maybe.



But i bet if we add Luffy, he'll not only sodomize L.A, but New York, and Texas too right.


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

Devil Kings said:


> But i bet if we add Luffy, he'll not only sodomize L.A, but New York, and Texas too right.



Luffy IS invulnerable to bullets so if its restricted to LAPD with no military support its not inconcievable...


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> first of all, swearing gets you nowhere



oh come now this isn't the formal battledome



pikachuwei said:


> Second WB has never shown the ability to reduce miles and miles of city to rubble instantly. It took WB most of the duration of the marineford battle to heavily damage the majority of buildings in marineford and marineford is only abotu 2 km in diameter



the guy was affecting miles of ocean and causing tremors on other always


pikachuwei said:


> third, it has always been the assumption that OP guns were similar to probably 18th century weapons



so you feel that despite being able to handle everything from building busters to island busters...eighteenth century weaponry is totally able to harm these guys?

are you aware of how stupid that is


pikachuwei said:


> in fact if i remember correctly, ALL the cannon balls and rifle bullets ever shown in OP were BALLS. If you know one iota about fireams you know ball rounds <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< rifle rounds.



normal balls..not flinlock pistols designed to harm people capable of eating an eighty ton punch to the face....no


pikachuwei said:


> made for killing superhumans my ass. I laugh at how OP can make giant HQs and lazer cannons and yet still have unrifled weapons for their soldiers.



that should tell you they are not joe blow bullets and saying they are is immensely stupid





pikachuwei said:


> instead of assuming that OMG THE BULLETS HURT SO AND SO WHO ARE VERY STRONG SO THEREFORE THE BULLETS MUST BE SUPER GODLY HAX!!!



the only other explanation is...IC level inconsistency 



pikachuwei said:


> with occams razor we just assume that the people the bullet harm arent THAT tough?



thats a pretty retarded aplication of occams razor...if you think eighteenth century bullets can harm a class 50 brick


pikachuwei said:


> and fyi bullets wont hurt luffy's eyelid because hes, y'know, made of rubber? luffy's invulnerability to projectiles like bullets has been around since the beginning of OP. Luffy is far more durable against bullets than whitebeard is.



or hey how about silvers..or sanji or any one else who has shown such high end durability feats that claiming primitive ass musket rounds can hurt them is ass backwards retarded

your not grasping how incredibly stupid this is..either that or your going to desperately stupid lengths to try and show me the error of my reasoning that your profoundly misapplying making it..an exorcise in idiocy 


pikachuwei said:


> damage soak = endurance, ive already been through this discussion with God Movement and waka, both of whom seem to exhibit more intelligence in discussions than you. Most OBDers are just too retarded to understand the difference between durability and endurance*, 99% of durability feats are in fact endurance feats*. (meruem tanking a nuke was mostly a endurance feat, he got very badly injured, but was able to soak up enough damage without dying. Jozu tanking mihawk's slash is a durability feat since jozu wasnt injured)



damage soak does not in any way equate to endurance..they are too entirely separate issues...and you claiming...what you just claimed..is in fact an act of absolute idiocy 



pikachuwei said:


> and i DID say that i was making very rough estimations for the bullet calcs, but i was only trying to make it easier for you to understand.



you are underestimating what I can understand seeing as I seem to have a better grasp on whats what more then you..do...I've been doing this for a very long fucking time..on many boards man.

your bullet theory..and the rest of the jive your spouting out is..weak and its trollish


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

Fucking lol at IWD applying powerscaling to One Piece, but negating it for other shounen mangas.

Your words were you cannot apply powerscaling to figure out a character's physical attributes. Assuming that Whitebeard can tank all this shit because characters below him have is hilarious considering you argued strongly against such a method in earlier threads.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Fucking lol at IWD applying powerscaling to One Piece, but negating it for other shounen mangas.
> 
> Your words were you cannot apply powerscaling to figure out a character's physical attributes. Assuming that Whitebeard can tank all this shit because characters below him have is hilarious considering you argued strongly against such a method in earlier threads.



so your lying about a posters....post then? where the fuck am i applying powerscaling you retard 

what I was saying if you had been paying attention was assuming OP guns work like...flintlock pistols when they have hurt extremely durable characters....who show that they could take every flintflock every made in the world firing at them point blank is asinine

and that WB's own limited feats show impressive durability and fantastic destructive capability..but virtually no speed

as far as people being vastly inferior to him tanking far greater damage then Bullets thats simply true...WB is far more powerful then them by feats and has one or two durability feats they do not have

seriously your at the point where you can't even read or comprehend other posters posts...and your seriously sitting here trying to claim you aren't _that persons_ dupe when your committing all his mistakes is hilarious


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh come now this isn't the formal battledome



first of all learn English. Your grammar skills are horrible.



> the guy was affecting miles of ocean and causing tremors on other always



yet he wasnt able to destroy Marineford in one shot. He wont be clearing LA in a few hits



> so you feel that despite being able to handle everything from building busters to island busters...eighteenth century weaponry is totally able to harm these guys?
> 
> are you aware of how stupid that is



your beloved on-panel evidence tells you that Whitebeard had bullet wounds in him. He gets hurt by bullets.



> normal balls..not flinlock pistols designed to harm people capable of eating an eighty ton punch to the face....no
> 
> 
> that should tell you they are not joe blow bullets and saying they are is immensely stupid



there has never been any hinting that the pistols were specially designed to harm superhumans, until then the most logical path is to regard them as normal pistols.



> thats a pretty retarded aplication of occams razor...if you think eighteenth century bullets can harm a class 50 brick



see above



> or hey how about silvers..or sanji or any one else who has shown such high end durability feats that claiming primitive ass musket rounds can hurt them is ass backwards retarded



Manda tanked a 10 km explosion. Pein > manda therefore Pein can tank anything in OP since nothing in OP can come close to a 10 km explosion. 

Your reasoning is retarded. Just because person A > person B doesnt mean person A automatically is superior in every stat to person B



> damage soak does not in any way equate to endurance..they are too entirely separate issues...and you claiming...what you just claimed..is in fact an act of absolute idiocy



for this...




God Movement said:


> pikachuwei said:
> 
> 
> > okay just to confirm wats the difference between durability and endurance
> ...





waka0793 said:


> pikachuwei said:
> 
> 
> > okay just to confirm wats the difference between durability and endurance
> ...



i have 2 members backing up my definition.



> you are underestimating what I can understand seeing as I seem to have a better grasp on whats what more then you..do...I've been doing this for a very long fucking time..on many boards man.



experience =/= quality.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> first of all learn English. Your grammar skills are horrible.



and this is where you begin to loose the  argument 



pikachuwei said:


> fyet he wasnt able to destroy Marineford in one shot. He wont be clearing LA in a few hits



it was rocking around on the waves like a bad balancing...act..he was affecting things mile away...all he has to do is plaster a bunch of...mundanes and level buildings well within his established range



pikachuwei said:


> f
> your beloved on-panel evidence tells you that Whitebeard had bullet wounds in him. He gets hurt by bullets.



so guys almost as durable as the fucking rhino...are suspectible to flintlock pistols?

get real fucking eighteenth century pistols would bounce right the fuck off Wilson Fisk let alone the superhumans in OP

[





pikachuwei said:


> fthere has never been any hinting that the pistols were specially designed to harm superhumans, until then the most logical path is to regard them as normal pistols.



the mere fact that they can cause damage to people who can soak building busters suggests this unless you feel eighteenth century flintlocks can..do the same

at which point I can give you the number to a few shrinks



pikachuwei said:


> f
> see above



what for more nonsense on your part?


pikachuwei said:


> f
> Manda tanked a 10 km explosion. Pein > manda therefore Pein can tank anything in OP since nothing in OP can come close to a 10 km explosion.


bullshit on the 10k 



pikachuwei said:


> f
> Your reasoning is retarded. Just because person A > person B doesnt mean person A automatically is superior in every stat to person B



are you retarded? the superior feats demonstrated by WB namely soaking lasers by fucking kizaru who previously casually blasted apart a gigantic effing building...and was overwhelming the strawhats...among the other hellatious abuse endured by the old man before he bit the dust..gives me the right to claim this

the only thing he lacks is speed feats


pikachuwei said:


> f
> 
> i have 2 members backing up my definition.



who gives a fuck? I',m supposed to bow out to two dudes who are better posters then you......and your half assed attempted to lie troll and distort shit?



pikachuwei said:


> f
> experience =/= quality.



considering you went into this thread with literally no idea what the fuck you where talking about and have done everything from lie...to try and claim flintlock pistols can hurt people who;d give the thing trouble...in this case..it certainly does

your fucking up


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

Buster call ship 'war-canons' aren't normal as we've seen from their demonstration on Ohara. Some of the people stabbing whitbeard probably had haki and most happenned off panel so it's hard to judge which superhumans were stabbing him. Most people in One-piece without some kind of body hardening technique or DF would have a bullet penetrate their skin however. Zoro was going to be executed from a firing squad, and he knew he would die from such a thing. This same Zoro's flesh didn't get any harder from the begging of the manga until now, though perhaps his muscle became thicker or more devloped or something. The point is, Zoro is Zoro and he survvied Mihawk's slash.

Normal bullets  should be able to penetrate WB skin, it's just they would not get very far in, pierce bone, or matter in any capacity. ANyway, it's fiction, blunt isn't always cutting damage even if it should be and there is not difference in reality. The author is gonna do what he wants. --- WB is on another level. Even if Wb somehow had his face blown off and his heart had exploded, he would rage on until all of LA was destroyed. All this to say Wb is a bad example because we didn't see what sort of stuff hit him so the rifles and shit is unknown. That said, lol at even the most generic gun in op being some kind of turbo-super gun. Some are like buster-call, skypedia, van auger, etc, but some aren't, as the manga has shown. 

Ps: Pein still wins this fight, Hit and run tactics + hiding henge + cst at focal points= even if it takes weeks...


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

like I said Regular bullets barely harm prime Wilson Fisk I am certainly convinced a guy who tanked a thirty eight between the eyes with only powder burns temporary blindness and minimal surgery..could bounce flintlocks off his hide

theres no way in hell Fisk is more durable then the straw hats seven warlords and the yonkou or any mid to low high tiers that seem to be perfectly able to tank anything from building busters to city block level...

they have to be higher quality rounds then fourtheenth to eighteenth century period weaponry like I said..a flintlock wouldn't even phase an A list street levler much less these monsters


----------



## Masa (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> well OP;er forgot to turn off CIS...so peins really badly handicapped
> 
> *he'd aslo have to speak english and know about LA culture* to fully infiltrate
> 
> ...



You don't know much about LA do you?


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> like I said Regular bullets barely harm prime Wilson Fisk I am certainly convinced a guy who tanked a thirty eight between the eyes with only powder burns temporary blindness and minimal surgery..could bounce flintlocks off his hide
> 
> theres no way in hell Fisk is more durable then the straw hats seven warlords and the yonkou or any mid to low high tiers that seem to be perfectly able to tank anything from building busters to city block level...
> 
> they have to be higher quality rounds then fourtheenth to eighteenth century period weaponry like I said..a flintlock wouldn't even phase an A list street levler much less these monsters



Why are you brining up a characters outside one piece when talking speciifcally about how durable characters are written to be in OP with regards to in-universe mecanics of OP? Oda does not write Marvel comics or Fisk. Characters stats to specific types of damage can vary if the author wants for one reason or another, or no reason whatsoever. For example, Spider-man cannot bounce bullets off his chest, and yet, he takes beatins from Venom. Incidentally, WB, Yonkon/Shichibukai=/ even if a bullet penetrates doesn't mean it matters, as I noted. Superficial penetration doesn't equate to a noticable stressors on them, nor does blood loss for anyone in Op worth their salt. Zoro's skin didn't get any harder from the begging of the manga (muscle probably did though or something). Though still, he  obviously jas superhumanly hard skin beyond are own or something. However, it doesn't mean a bullet to the head from a sniper-rifle isn't going to pierce his skin.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Why are you brining up a characters outside one piece when talking speciifcally about how durable characters are written to be in OP with regards to in-universe mecanics of OP? Oda does not write Marvel comics or Fisk. [



because he is a characters who's durability feats are several orders of magnitude beneath WB the rest is simply..superfluous filibustering on your part



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Incidentally, WB, Yonkon/Shichibukai=/ even if a bullet penetrates doesn't mean it matters, as I noted. Superficial penetration doesn't equate to a noticable stressors on them, nor does blood loss for anyone in Op worth their salt. Zoro's skin didn't get any harder from the begging of the manga (muscle probably did though or something). Though still, he  obviously jas superhumanly hard skin beyond are own or something. However, *it doesn't mean a bullet to the head from a sniper-rifle isn't going to pierce his skin*.



theres nothing to support modern snipers being able to harm..a class 70 some brick other then...a desire to argue...and an attempt to cling to "zomg teh flintlocks" to..well argue pointlessly



Masa said:


> You don't know much about LA do you?



err I'm well aware of its multcultural backround I live in a city with a similar backround..though more varied..

thats not changing that English is the default language..of the country and almost every one in LA speaks it thus a need to blend in with the majority


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

WB was stated to be penetrated by bullets. I stated how or what type of bullets hit WB are unknown as they were not shown. The burden of proof is on you to now prove said unknown rifles specificallly were super-powered guns.  Provide the proof, or you're not debating properly just assuming whatever you like. Incidentally, I already stated the buster-call canon were super powered, that the sword strikes came from unknown individuals, and the fact I was arguing WB cannot be argued properly, in regards to guns not being super-powered, because we didn't even see it. You're fillibuster non-sense is both irrelevant and tiresome, and pretty much indicates you can't respond to points. *Now meet the burden of proof, now. Prove Op guns, without acception down to every single one shown in the manga as that is what you're argument boils down to, are all super powered guns. *

Citing a character who is not Wb is an association fallacy, I don't care about Wilson fisk, at all. Stop talking about him. Additionally, fisk is not an Op character so he irrelevant to OP damage-soak and duability. 

Your argument is pretty much ignore any point you don't like, huh. Spiderman is more durable than fisk. Yet, SPider-man can be shot and gunned down. Yet, you see no flaw in arguing anyone who takes insert whatever class you feel like citing can tank insert whatever bullets you feel like claiming is flawed in any fiction all the time despite, you know, writer writing in their own rules isn't flawed ????


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> WB was stated to be penetrated by bullets. I stated how or what type of bullets hit WB are unknown as they were not shown. The burden of proof is on you to now prove said unknown rifles specificallly were super-powered guns.  Provide the proof, or you're not debating properly just assuming whatever you like. Incidentally, I already stated the buster-call canon were super powered, that the sword strikes came from unknown individuals, and the fact I was arguing WB cannot be argued properly, in regards to guns not being super-powered, because we didn't even see it. You're fillibuster non-sense is both irrelevant and tiresome, and pretty much indicates you can't respond to points. *Now meet the burden of proof, now. Prove Op guns, without acception down to every single one shown in the manga as that is what you're argument boils down to, are all super powered guns. *][]




you have it the other way around your facing an insurmountable amount of evidence..in the way of durability feats consistently portrayed over the ten plus years the series has existed...if you wanna claim they're ordinary flint lock muskets..go ahead and try..but you'd also have to explain how the fuck puny metal balls that can barely dent thick wood..would some how bypass said superhumanly durable block buster tanking guys[

do you have any idea how fucking pathetic flint lock pistols where compared to modern arms fire? how...little sense it makes for them to be able to do harm to characters...who possess  durability..thats well comparable to tanks and other modern armored vehicles?

theres a silliness in continuing to try and argue that



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Citing a character who is not Wb is an association fallacy, I don't care about Wilson fisk, at all. Stop talking about him. Additionally, fisk is not an Op character so he irrelevant to OP damage-soak and duability.



and yet in many threads all over this forum this is a valid tactic...a character who is several orders of magnitude beneath another...can deflect something or tank something....is entirely valid if that character is weaker

what your committing here...is essentially a distortion in an attempt to dodge an argument..quoting fallacies in and of itself many times comes off like an absolute cop out simply put..your dodging 



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Your argument is pretty much ignore any point you don't like, huh. Spiderman is more durable than fisk. Yet, SPider-man can be shot and gunned down. Yet, you see no flaw in arguing anyone who takes insert whatever class you feel like citing can tank insert whatever bullets you feel like claiming is flawed in any fiction all the time despite, you know, writer writing in their own rules isn't flawed ????



your invoking considerations that are entirely irrelevant...to a vs match

and in regards to peter parkers ability to handle gun fire...there are instances of him nearly dying from bullet wounds in the abdomen...and others of him recovering several hours later...using low showings to try and justify...an argument is disingenuous

your twisting filibustering and dodging arguments by hiding behind fallacy claims..I'm pretty sure that's considered trolling


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and this is where you begin to loose the  argument
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> and this is where you begin to loose the  argument



says the guy who began namecalling against others about 5 pages back
massive hypocrite is massive



> it was rocking around on the waves like a bad balancing...act..he was affecting things mile away...all he has to do is plaster a bunch of...mundanes and level buildings well within his established range



conceded that whitebeard could possibly oneshot Marineford, but he isnt one shotting LA.



> the mere fact that they can cause damage to people who can soak building busters suggests this unless you feel eighteenth century flintlocks can..do the same



naruto characters can take on building busters too and yet kunai are still viable weapons in a fight. Should i assume then that all kunai in naruto are magical superpowered kunai with teh power of an atomic bomb for them to be able to harm people who can tank building busters? no.




> bullshit on the 10k



sarcasm detecting fail



> are you retarded? the superior feats demonstrated by WB namely soaking lasers by fucking kizaru who previously casually blasted apart a gigantic effing building...and was overwhelming the strawhats...among the other hellatious abuse endured by the old man before he bit the dust..gives me the right to claim this
> 
> the only thing he lacks is speed feats



i dont recall whitebeard taking any lazers at all from kizaru.... the "hellatious abuse" endured by the old man mostly consists of him getting pwnt by small arms fire and getting stabbed by randoms. The only remotely impressive part is WB taking on Akainu's attacks and living.



> who gives a fuck? I',m supposed to bow out to two dudes who are better posters then you......and your half assed attempted to lie troll and distort shit?



those two dudes are better posters than you. And lol at me trolling, prove that i am making shit up.



> considering you went into this thread with literally no idea what the fuck you where talking about and have done everything from lie...to try and claim flintlock pistols can hurt people who;d give the thing trouble...in this case..it certainly does
> 
> *your fucking up*



IWD u are hilarious


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> WB was stated to be penetrated by bullets. I stated how or what type of bullets hit WB are unknown as they were not shown. The burden of proof is on you to now prove said unknown rifles specificallly were super-powered guns.  Provide the proof, or you're not debating properly just assuming whatever you like. Incidentally, I already stated the buster-call canon were super powered, that the sword strikes came from unknown individuals, and the fact I was arguing WB cannot be argued properly, in regards to guns not being super-powered, because we didn't even see it. You're fillibuster non-sense is both irrelevant and tiresome, and pretty much indicates you can't respond to points. *Now meet the burden of proof, now. Prove Op guns, without acception down to every single one shown in the manga as that is what you're argument boils down to, are all super powered guns. *
> 
> Citing a character who is not Wb is an association fallacy, I don't care about Wilson fisk, at all. Stop talking about him. Additionally, fisk is not an Op character so he irrelevant to OP damage-soak and duability.
> 
> Your argument is pretty much ignore any point you don't like, huh. Spiderman is more durable than fisk. Yet, SPider-man can be shot and gunned down. Yet, you see no flaw in arguing anyone who takes insert whatever class you feel like citing can tank insert whatever bullets you feel like claiming is flawed in any fiction all the time despite, you know, writer writing in their own rules isn't flawed ????



finally someone with intelligence enters the thread


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have it the other way around your facing an insurmountable amount of evidence..in the way of durability feats consistently portrayed over the ten plus years the series has existed...if you wanna claim they're ordinary flint lock muskets..go ahead and try..but you'd also have to explain how the fuck puny metal balls that can barely dent thick wood..would some how bypass said superhumanly durable block buster tanking guys[
> 
> do you have any idea how fucking pathetic flint lock pistols where compared to modern arms fire? how...little sense it makes for them to be able to do harm to characters...who possess  durability..thats well comparable to tanks and other modern armored vehicles?
> 
> theres a silliness in continuing to try and argue that



and yet there is no proof that fodder marines, heck just about all the guns (except that guy in BB's crew) are anything special

from what weve seen in the manga the bullets act like normal, they dont make huge explosions and stuff when they hit the ground, they dont demonstrate any superior piercing ability when they hit rocks or wood.

Unless you are claiming that the OP environment itself is magically more durable than normal environments, there really isnt any proof at all that OP bullets are anythign special. The very fact that they are ball bearings seems to point to them being WEAKER than conventional modern weapons


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> says the guy who began namecalling against others about 5 pages back
> massive hypocrite is massive]



oh right because..it wasn't like those trolls where ya know lying constantly for a bunch of pages or what not



pikachuwei said:


> conceded that whitebeard could possibly oneshot Marineford, but he isnt one shotting LA.



the guy can cause such damage that a good chunk of the city would be leveled...the rest severely damaged and the collateral damage of collapsing buildings..busted sewer lines annihilated power plants and the possibility of agitating that area already unstable geology leave the city in far far worse conditions..then pein would




pikachuwei said:


> naruto characters can take on building busters too and yet kunai are still viable weapons in a fight. Should i assume then that all kunai in naruto are magical superpowered kunai with teh power of an atomic bomb for them to be able to harm people who can tank building busters? no.



when was the last time these things where used by anything other then distractions by high tiers? they're also being flung by ya know massively super strong individuals...

gai tossing a kunai..is not going to be the same as a fucking black belt from a mcdojo here




pikachuwei said:


> sarcasm detecting fail



there are one two maybe three or so characters in the HST capable of that level of destruction..deidera aint one of them

and manda didn't tank shit he fucking died



pikachuwei said:


> i dont recall whitebeard taking any lazers at all from kizaru.... the "hellatious abuse" endured by the old man mostly consists of him getting pwnt by small arms fire and getting stabbed by randoms. The only remotely impressive part is WB taking on Akainu's attacks and living.



Kizaru liver shot him..and then got punched in the face or something

coupled with the massive swords and all that



pikachuwei said:


> those two dudes are better posters than you. And lol at me trolling, prove that i am making shit up.



your using another posters liking your theory...as evidence of what exactly merit? that's two dude out of the quarter of a million members of NF and the hundred or so active posters on the OBD

I'm supposed to humble myself and blindly accept your bullshit cause two dudes agree with you? the fuck...that's shitty debating right there..



pikachuwei said:


> IWD u are hilarious



oh I know right? I mean its not like I came into a thread just to antognize a poster and randomly lied distorted evidence..and twisted said guys words..and then totally derailed a thread with meaningless bullshit
gotta love it when a two bit hypocritical liar...fucks up and breaks a bunch of rules ands cant even keep his shit strait


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have it the other way around your facing an insurmountable amount of evidence..in the way of durability feats consistently portrayed over the ten plus years the series has existed...if you wanna claim they're ordinary flint lock muskets..go ahead and try..but you'd also have to explain how the fuck puny metal balls that can barely dent thick wood..would some how bypass said superhumanly durable block buster tanking guys[
> 
> do you have any idea how fucking pathetic flint lock pistols where compared to modern arms fire? how...little sense it makes for them to be able to do harm to characters...who possess  durability..thats well comparable to tanks and other modern armored vehicles?
> 
> theres a silliness in continuing to try and argue that



You do realize I never once noted the weapons to be of the flint lock or wtv calibur, and never made any distinction below modern weaponary comparisions? I simply called them normal guns. I wasn't making that distinction. I don't really know enough about guns to bother doign that or care too. -  Now please prove all weapons in Op, without acception as you claim, are beyond modern weaponary (normal guns). That is the claim you made, and have yet to prove or even try to prove with evidence beyond vague citation just now, which is not proper debating.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and yet in many threads all over this forum this is a valid tactic...a character who is several orders of magnitude beneath another...can deflect something or tank something....is entirely valid if that character is weaker
> 
> what your committing here...is essentially a distortion in an attempt to dodge an argument..quoting fallacies in and of itself many times comes off like an absolute cop out simply put..your dodging



In a word, you're using powersclaing here. That's relevant in the same universe as form of reference for the powerscaling but not across verses. Fisk is not an Op character. Fisk does not have the same powers as WB or come from the same universe. Stop trying to pass of his feats as relevant to One piece characters pretending this is proper debating tactics. Stop pretending you don't see the fallacious nature in this sort of argument of Fisk can do this so insert this other person can.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> your invoking considerations that are entirely irrelevant...to a vs match
> 
> and in regards to peter parkers ability to handle gun fire...there are instances of him nearly dying from bullet wounds in the abdomen...and others of him recovering several hours later...using low showings to try and justify...an argument is disingenuous
> 
> your twisting filibustering and dodging arguments by hiding behind fallacy claims..I'm pretty sure that's considered trolling



You're attitude to try and claim 'dodging' or disengenious becomes the more tiresome and telling of how much of it you're doing the more you keep talking about. You noted bullets wouldn't even penetrate Fisk skin or something very similar to this, didn't you? Spider-man is as durable or more durable than Fisk. My point is bullets don't bounce off Spider-man skins despite Spider-man's amazing durability feats... getting beaten on by the likes of venom. Said feats don't translate automatically and mean he is bullet-proof because Blunt doesn't=/ penetrating durability everytime even if it should in fiction, that's what feats are for otherwise spider-man would be bullet-proof because he takes beating froms Clas 40 Venom (I'm not sure if that's venom strength class exactly but I know its over 20). ----Whatever non-sense you're spotting about me using low-end spider-man feats is nonsense. I addressed your fisk point about bullet bouncing off/doing no damage, and yet, you don't list me a feat of a bullet not penetrating spider-man skin at all and being smashed on impact casually bouncing off? Really. You've dug your own grave and admitted right there durability varies even if with ur terrible "I am taking characters from another universe and scale them method. Now back up your claims about all guns in Op being superhuman. I will ask a final time for you to please  list the feats/evidence specifically in Op supporting all guns without exception are beyond the norm in Op-verse. Not just the buster-call or skypedia ones I myself said were, but every single dang gun every shown in the series. Prove it. You claimed. Prove it.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> *You do realize I never once noted the weapons to be of the flint lock or wtv calibur, and never made any distinction below modern weaponary comparisions, right?*  Now please prove all weapons in Op, without acception as you claim, are beyond modern weaponary. That is the claim you made, and have yet to prove or even try to prove with evidence beyond vague citation.



then you have either a grudge or ADD or are blind becuase the entire reason this debate happened is because pika decided to derail a thread and act like he had a bone to pick to talk about how old school flintlock weaponry could take out WB and thus the LAPD could

basically cthulu you been arguing..against me on something I been saying...for awhile now..against what I been arguing...although I believe its more towards modern heavy caliber ammo..it seems but yeah..what the fuck? are you even paying attention to me? and I have to ask..why? are you that angry?



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> In a word, you're using powersclaing. That's relevant when the author is the same and there is some form of reference for the powerscaling, which what by citing fisk is what you're doing. FIsk is not an Op character. Fisk does not have the same powers as WB or come from the same universe. Stop trying to pass of his feats as relevant toOne piece characters pretending this is proper debating tactics. Stop pretending you don't see the fallacious nature in this sort of argument, and haven't shot it down in other threads.



I am not powerscaling I am going by feats and pointing out the utter retardation of sitting here and going "dur hurr da bullets will work" when this shit....is beneath _far_ weaker characters

the rest is you doing what you always do...filibuster crap out fallacies and hide behind them..andf some times lie





Cthulhu-versailles said:


> You're attitude to try and claim 'dodging' or disengenious becomes the more tiresome and telling of how much of it you're doing the more you keep talking about. You noted bullets wouldn't even penetrate Fisk skin or something very similar to this, didn't you? Spider-man is as durable or more durable than Fisk, I would wager; my point is bullets don't bounce off Spider-man skins.Despite  Spider-man's amazing durability, getting beaten on by the likes of venom, it doesn't translate automatically and mean he is bullet-proof. Blunt doesn't=/ penetrating durability everytime even if it should, that's what feats are for otherwise spider-man would be bullet-proof because he takes beating froms Clas 40 Venom (I'm not sure if that's venom strength class exactly but I know its over 20). -Whatever non-sense you're spotting about me using low-end spider-man feats is nonsense. I addressed your fisk point about bullet bouncing off/doing no damage, and yet, you don't list me a feat of a bullet not penetrating spider-man skin at all and being smashed on impact? You've dug your own grave and admitted right there durability varies. Now back up your claims about all guns in Op being superhuman. I will ask a final time for you to do this. list the feats/evidence specifically in Op supporting all guns without exception are beyond the norm in Op-verse.



you know I only know one other poster who can say so little..in such a massive wall of text...why the fuck do you persist on taxing the forum server with your bullshit....

oh and as far as the original...comment regarding Fisk because your not even able to honestly keep track of that I said Flint lock bullets would bounce off his hide

I'm pretty sure the exact same thing would happen to pete..thats how laughably shitty flintlock weaponry is...and the reason to bring this up is how utterly stupid it was for pika to claim that these obsolete out dated weaponry could possibly phase...some one as tough as say Zoro..or sanji..much less a god damn younku..is..when they likely wouldn't even phase...a class 20 who'd likely be eclipsed in all areas

this isn't powerscaling or misdirection its a simple matter of "feats and why this claim is absolutely stupid" vs "BAAAHHH I HAZ A BONE TA PICKS SO I;MA DERAIL A THREAD WITH BULLSHIT WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY LYING.AND INTENTIONALLY TWISTING THE OTHER GUYS POSTS..." and " I don't even know what the principle argument is..but I'ma go in any ways cause eh why not its an HST thread and i loves ta be in 'em "

edit: you know this whole thing started because of a major thread derail in attempt to distort and attack ceaselessly so why are you continuing this


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

> when was the last time these things where used by anything other then distractions by high tiers? they're also being flung by ya know massively super strong individuals...
> 
> gai tossing a kunai..is not going to be the same as a fucking black belt from a mcdojo here



you are right, kunai thrown by normal people < kunai thrown by superhumans
it is a bad example to make

however if the guns are the same, guns fired by normal people have the same power as guns fired by superhumans.



> there are one two maybe three or so characters in the HST capable of that level of destruction..deidera aint one of them
> 
> and manda didn't tank shit he fucking died



Word of God > you. though it probably isnt 10 km in diameter, its still a fucking huge blast.

Whitebeard didnt tank bullets he died . your arguments work both ways.



> Kizaru liver shot him..and then got punched in the face or something
> 
> coupled with the massive swords and all that



i swear it was marco that got liver shotted, iirc the only time whitebeard "hit" kizaru was intercepting him as kizaru was going after luffy"



> your using another posters liking your theory...as evidence of what exactly merit? that's two dude out of the quarter of a million members of NF and the hundred or so active posters on the OBD
> 
> I'm supposed to humble myself and blindly accept your bullshit cause two dudes agree with you? the fuck...that's shitty debating right there..



evidence that my concept of what durability and endurance means is probably more correct than yours, thus making my argument that much more valid than yours. Majority rules IWD.



> oh I know right? I mean its not like I came into a thread just to antognize a poster and randomly lied distorted evidence..and twisted said guys words..and then totally derailed a thread with meaningless bullshit
> gotta love it when a two bit hypocritical liar...fucks up and breaks a bunch of rules ands cant even keep his shit strait



i dont even know what you are trying to say... improve your english before you try insulting someone. They might accidentally mistake your insults for praise 

You are lucky im such a fail debater IWD, a better debator would have wrecked your shit already with the weak arguments you have been posting.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> you are right, kunai thrown by normal people < kunai thrown by superhumans
> it is a bad example to make



was about to say


pikachuwei said:


> however if the guns are the same, guns fired by normal people have the same power as guns fired by superhumans.



if the guns are flintlock pistols...and you normal joe blow internerposter had say some thick ass clothing..and a knights chest plate..and took a point blank flintlock...to the chest at best...your gonna have a sore chest..at worse you'll need some stitches

now you sit here and tell me a guy who can get punched through a skyscraper and come out okay...is going to do..worse then you



pikachuwei said:


> Word of God > you. though it probably isnt 10 km in diameter, its still a fucking huge blast.



word of god has very little power in a vs debate it gets challenged all the time



pikachuwei said:


> Whitebeard didnt tank bullets he died . your arguments work both ways.




he died because of a combination of his illness his injuries...and what ever the fuck BB did to him 


pikachuwei said:


> i swear it was marco that got liver shotted, iirc the only time whitebeard "hit" kizaru was intercepting him as kizaru was going after luffy"



no I think it was the old fart that got liver shot...Marco cheesed off one of the admirals when he used haki on 'em I forget if it was akainu aokiji or..admiral bell bottoms


pikachuwei said:


> evidence that my concept of what durability and endurance means is probably more correct than yours, thus making my argument that much more valid than yours. Majority rules IWD.



do you even know what my concept of damage soak is? or where I derive it from?

[





pikachuwei said:


> i dont even know what you are trying to say... improve your english before you try insulting someone. They might accidentally mistake your insults for praise



yeah basically you going into a thread specifically to argue a guy with a half baked theory then twisted and distort shit for a bunch of pages 


pikachuwei said:


> You are lucky im such a fail debater IWD, a better debator would have wrecked your shit already with the weak arguments you have been posting.



..yeah I hate talking about my past..but I was a rumbler for almost four years right on the line and I've gone up against some of the best of the best from many different boards..and some of the worse of the worse (phenom yupi DY to name a few)

and I've had my ups and downs my wins and losses my beatings..and my beat downs..I've incurred hatred and respect or just stayed under every ones radar...and through it all the one thing..any could of said about me was I'm no easy kill..outside of a few instances no ones ever "wrecked my shit" as you say..say what you want..and while I'm certainly not "a great debater" IE the guys who are counted amongst the very best and respect on every vs board (though EM seems to be) by any stretch nor would I say that...I'm certainly not the worse


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 28, 2010)

Heeello there, boys and girls, I'm back.

First of all, I'd want to comment that yesterday I had a pretty rotten day and spent some six hours driving my sister to her college and coming back. Though I'll endeavour to avoid it, excessive aggresion might taint my next several posts. Apologies for that.

Second, since the line by line style of debate is a godamn mess that only those who are personally involved in the debate itself manage to follow the going ons, I shall be using the  in my next few posts in order to try to get some more clarity.

1- *Author inconsistencies and canonicity.* IWD tried to argue that he could blithely ignore canon depictions of the size of Konoha, since he claims that there have been inconsistencies and retcons in Naruto. He used for comparison purposes the inconsistent portrayal of characters in certain comics written by Joseph Loeb.

The problem with this, of course, is that comics are not manga.

In superhero comics, any given character has been handled by dozens of different writers and artists over the years. As a result of this, inconsistencies arise and it is up to the editors to ultimately determine what is canon and what isn't.

With very rare exceptions, this is not the case for manga. Masashi Kishimoto is the creator, artist and writer of Naruto. He is the sole authority on what is canon and what isn't as far as his series is concerned. Thus, if there are inconsistencies between the current size of Konoha and what was presented pre-time skip (as IWD has claimed, without providing any proof to back his position), the truth of the matter is that there has been a retcon in canon. 

As a rule of thumb, when an author makes a retcon the newest information is valid. To use a well known comic book analogy, this is why Wonder Woman no longer has bondage as her superweakness.  

Conclusion: Since Konoha during the Pain Invasion arc was the last we saw of the town prior to it being turned into a hole in the ground, it is the latest and most valid information we have. _Ad hominem_ attacks against the author simply are not a valid debate tactic. His work might or might not be bad, but it is definitely NOT open to challenge and has never been as far as discussion of the capabilities of the Narutoverse characters is concerned.

2- *Fancalcs don't work.* Sorry, Immortal WatchDog, but you are not in Comic Book Resources anymore. Back of the envelope calculations are the bread and butter of this place and you don't get to simply handwave mine away. 

My scaling is based in canon information (two canon images used as reference and the canon height of Kakashi given in the databooks) and rests in simple, easy to verify observatiosn. Point the mistakes in my calculations or the holes in my assumptions or concede the matter.

3- *Scale of the Elemental Countries.* Statements are still canon information, unless a direct contradiction can be proven. Since Jiraiya (not an emotionally manipulated retard, as you so eloquently put it) didn't challenge Pain in this point, it is entirely up to IWD to prove that the Elemental Countries don't actually have a population as canon says they do. Good luck with that.

Mooore later.


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 28, 2010)

first of all, IWD nice job

nah I'm kidding with you, a word of advise, when making a point use scans they help



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have it the other way around your facing an insurmountable amount of evidence..in the way of durability feats consistently portrayed over the ten plus years the series has existed...if you wanna claim they're ordinary flint lock muskets..go ahead and try..but you'd also have to explain how the fuck puny metal balls that can barely dent thick wood..would some how bypass said superhumanly durable block buster tanking guys[


In the contrary we haven't seen prove yet of your points and if we go by this definition of trolling


The Immortal WatchDog said:


> your twisting filibustering and dodging arguments by hiding behind fallacy claims..I'm pretty sure that's considered trolling


 you just called yourself a troll




pikachuwei said:


> says the guy who began namecalling against others about 5 pages back
> massive hypocrite is massive


believe me, you haven't seem the top of the iceberg with this guy, he is childish (trying to put it in a nice way) 




> conceded that whitebeard could possibly oneshot Marineford, but he isnt one shotting LA.


good luck with that.




> IWD u are hilarious


isn't he, he at least provide us with a good laugh



> You are lucky im such a fail debater IWD, a better debator would have wrecked your shit already with the weak arguments you have been posting.


this thread lacks zaru


----------



## Masa (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> err I'm well aware of its multcultural backround I live in a city with a similar backround..though more varied..
> 
> thats not changing that English is the default language..of the country and almost every one in LA speaks it thus a need to blend in with the majority



Not even close to almost everyone, you can go to the Hispanic, Korean, and Vietnamese areas and find thousands, probably bordering on hundreds of thousands that don't speak English.  Many immigrants in LA don't seem to care that its the default language so that point is moot.  Also for Pain's sake, there are plenty of Japanese-only speakers in LA.

Like I said, you don't know much about LA.


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> then you have either a grudge or ADD or are blind becuase the entire reason this debate happened is because pika decided to derail a thread and act like he had a bone to pick to talk about how old school flintlock weaponry could take out WB and thus the LAPD could
> 
> basically cthulu you been arguing..against me on something I been saying...for awhile now..against what I been arguing...although I believe its more towards modern heavy caliber ammo..it seems but yeah..what the fuck? are you even paying attention to me? and I have to ask..why? are you that angry?
> 
> ...



My 1st post this topic was a general comment on two things simply because I found them interesting points related to the exchange, that's all. I only make serious comments in HST where something looks interesting. this happenned to have one of those issues. You're taking it way too personally if you think there is some kind of grudge involved or that I hold a grudge against any poster on this foru,. As to blindness, this presume I was arguing flint-locks or cared about that specifc argument to begin with as opposed to what my post actually made clear I was addressing as partial new issue of debate related to both your arguments. Namely, you cannot assume all guns in op are super-special beyond normal guns (modern guns) and must prove it. Second, modern guns should be able to penetrated upper Op chars skin, though very insignificantly since blunt doesn't need to equal piercing as this is fiction. Re-read my post. It's plain as day what I was arguing from the start.

Regarding fint-lock vs modern weaponary,  I may have erred in regards  to spider-man not being able to bounce them off his chest (as maybe flint aren't that good as you have claimed and spider-man has a feat of doing that). However, spider-man could be gunned down by normal(modern) bullets to his skull despite being able to take beatings from venom. Said bullets would not  ' barely cause him harm as you so noted occurs to fisk. The point being  blunt does not=/ piercing automatically and my point stands. Additionally, both fisk and spider-man have nothing to do with WB in any case or the mecanics of OP. You cannot use them in your argument as you please.

Finally, you have still yet to even try to prove or give any argument Op guns, without exception, are beyond modern weapons with specific evidence from the One Piece manga. You have also yet to prove modern snipers rifles would bounce off WB if shot as you claim. 

Prove your claims.[

Edit: Oh, also, I know of very few posters so readily  avoid even trying to give proof of their claims like you, IWD. I mean, you're not even attempting to... but just saying what I say goes. Wow.


----------



## Basilikos (Sep 28, 2010)

Wow, this thread sure became a shitstorm.


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

Really the only thing that i give a shit about is the fact that IWD somehow believes OP guns are superior to normal modern ones despite all evidence pointing towards them being more similar to muskets with ball bearings.

Developed to kill superhumans my ass.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Regarding fint-lock vs modern weaponary,  I may have erred in regards  to spider-man not being able to bounce them off his chest (as maybe flint aren't that good as you have claimed and spider-man has a feat of doing that). However, spider-man could be gunned down by normal(modern) bullets to his skull despite being able to take beatings from venom. Said bullets would not  ' barely cause him harm as you so noted occurs to fisk. The point being  blunt does not=/ piercing automatically and my point stands. Additionally, both fisk and spider-man have nothing to do with WB in any case or the mecanics of OP. You cannot use them in your argument as you please.



again this is simply not true...its perfectly valid to bring up far weaker characters feats if they are shown to be less durable or less powerful...barring special circumstances for their feats its totally legit


Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Finally, you have still yet to even try to prove or give any argument Op guns, without exception, are beyond modern weapons with specific evidence from the One Piece manga. You have also yet to prove modern snipers rifles would bounce off WB if shot as you claim.



why would I try to prove something I'm not even arguing for ? I've pretty much said anything in the high caliber variety...the fifty cal barretas the army snipers use etc would seriously ruin WB days 

the problem is...the LAPD does not possess such weaponry..and liberal gun control in cali..prevents private citizens from legally owning them..so yeah...LA's fucked



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> ]Prove your claims.[



to quote zaraki kempachi "PAY ATTENTION!!"



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Edit: Oh, also, I know of very few posters so readily  avoid even trying to give proof of their claims like you, IWD. I mean, you're not even attempting to... but just saying what I say goes. Wow.



HA! from captain filibuster and obfuscate



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> first of all, IWD nice job
> 
> nah I'm kidding with you, a word of advise, when making a point use scans they help



I don't need advice from some one who thinks ryuk is as powerful as Death from marvel



Blackfeather Dragon said:


> In the contrary we haven't seen prove yet of your points and if we go by this definition of trolling



that would require one functionally ignoring posts as you so wont to do


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> you just called yourself a troll



no I called you and a few others that..pay attention


Blackfeather Dragon said:


> this thread lacks zaru



asking for back up from the guy who keeps you green 



pikachuwei said:


> Really the only thing that i give a shit about is the fact that IWD somehow believes OP guns are superior to normal modern ones despite all evidence pointing towards them being more similar to muskets with ball bearings.
> 
> Developed to kill superhumans my ass.



I think your not paying attention to what I was saying more then indignant and false posting

but that aside..congradulations..you..a couple of granny's old sweaters and a wood blank are now more durable then any character in OP if you think flintlock pistols can damage them


----------



## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> asking for back up from the guy who keeps you green


zaru only rep twice in the past (over sixth months), and really, against you no need to back up, the thread is pretty much over and you are the only one dragging it, concede that the guns one piece aren't as strong as modern ones and we all move on


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

lol check out the hilarious hypcrisy.

This thread:



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *again this is simply not true...its perfectly valid to bring up far weaker characters feats if they are shown to be less durable or less powerful...barring special circumstances for their feats its totally legit*



*Namor runs Dragonball Guantlet Thread.*



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *irrelevant powerscaling should not be used for any universe
> 
> the same standards must apply for all no matter how harsh*



Fucking lol at IWD backwards biased reasoning.


----------



## Estrecca (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmmm...

Even if One Piece weapons are exactly as primitive as they look (and since this is a world where you can make gunpowder nukes, it wouldn't surprise me if that's not the case), even the very earliest firearms packed one hell of a punch (greater than modern counterparts, IIRC).

What has really improved over the years is the penetration power of bullets and the rate of fire.

EDIT: In other news, dogpiling = uncool and vendettas = uncoolness. Give the guy a rest already.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

Blackfeather Dragon said:


> zaru only rep twice in the past (over sixth months), and really, against you no need to back up, the thread is pretty much over and you are the only one dragging it, concede that the guns one piece aren't as strong as modern ones and we all move on



..how the fuck are weaponry...that in the eras theorized could barely dent plate armor....going to dent superhumans



The Chakra Fro said:


> lol check out the hilarious hypcrisy.
> 
> This thread:
> 
> ...



see this is how I know your sasuonos dupe no one posts self inflicting torpedo posts quite like him

I used feats there...there was no powerscaling

you got caught..your a dupe


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

lol yea sure, have the mods do a backgroud check. I don't even know who Sausono is.

On the other hand. Let me show you your backwards bias once more.


This thread:



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *again this is simply not true...its perfectly valid to bring up far weaker characters feats if they are shown to be less durable or less powerful...barring special circumstances for their feats its totally legit*



*Namor runs Dragonball Guantlet Thread.*



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *irrelevant powerscaling should not be used for any universe
> 
> the same standards must apply for all no matter how harsh*


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> lol yea sure, have the mods do a backgroud check. I don't even know who Sausono is.
> 
> On the other hand. Let me show you your backwards bias once more.
> 
> ...



oh lord....a chain of feats..peformed measured up against another guys consistent feats

you fucking retard thats not powerscaling...your seriously making yourself look incredibly stupid here

powerscaling would be me saying 'because this guy can casually blitz this guy....the other dude should be able to do it too"

as opposed "a guy who's probably as durable as..some random marine can no sell flintlocks...why can't a man who was fragged by kizaru attacked by an admiral nuked by blackbeard....and all this while being shanked by magical will chi users...not no sell the same thing"

aslo sigging me..is pretty petty


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> oh lord....a chain of feats..peformed measured up against another guys consistent feats
> 
> you fucking retard thats not powerscaling...your seriously making yourself look incredibly stupid here



lol Los Angeles loses.

/thread.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> lol Los Angeles loses.
> 
> /thread.



no pein gets his heasd blown off..yet to be disproven

also sigging my posts like that..when their not even proving your point is pretty god damn petty

no wonder why your all red...well that and being a dupe


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> no pein gets his heasd blown off..yet to be disproven
> 
> also sigging my posts like that..when their not even proving your point is pretty god damn petty
> 
> no wonder why your all red...well that and being a dupe



Los Angeles loses for reasons already stated  by multiple posters. lol yea your right yet your the only who is defending los angeles.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Los Angeles loses for reasons already stated  by multiple posters. lol yea your right yet your the only who is *defending los angeles*.



liar...

peins not dodging snipers and he can't possibly do enough damage in a single CT to put it down

so no..your wrong


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> liar...
> 
> peins not dodging snipers and he can't possibly do enough damage in a single CT to put it down
> 
> so no..your wrong



lol Who else is defending los angeles IWD? give it a rest

Pein is absolutely destroying any and all forms of reistance the LAPD can possibly provide. Snipers aren't doing jack shit. 

He doesn't have to. He will just destroy fuckloads of people every city block with Shinra Tensei. He will maul and dismember the remaining survivors with sound barrier breaking speed. He will be a fucking nightmare. Nobody will be able to deal with him since they will barely be able to comprehend what the fuck is going on. You have never been LA. Shut up. The police force there are fucking garbage. Be quiet.


----------



## Makabi (Sep 28, 2010)

With hundreds of people shooting at him with high powered weapons, there is no way Pain can dodge every bullet even with ST


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

Makabi said:


> With hundreds of people shooting at him with high powered weapons, there is no way Pain can dodge every bullet even with ST



What hundreds of people.. WTf? You seriously think he's going to let people gather like that? Normal people no less with shitty accuracy and reaction times? Give me a fucking break


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> lol Who else is defending los angeles IWD? give it a rest]



come on now sasu this is your third dupe...and your track record with me has always been bad lying is just making it worse




The Chakra Fro said:


> l
> Pein is absolutely destroying any and all forms of reistance the LAPD can possibly provide. Snipers aren't doing jack shit.



their getting thier lines of sights in and blowing his sorry emo head off



The Chakra Fro said:


> lHe doesn't have to. He will just destroy fuckloads of people every city block with Shinra Tensei. He will maul and dismember the remaining survivors with sound barrier breaking speed. He will be a fucking nightmare. Nobody will be able to deal with him since they will barely be able to comprehend what the fuck is going on. You have never been LA. Shut up. The police force there are fucking garbage. Be quiet.



lol hating on the LAPD is a pop culture fad over there in any event..he cts maybe a quater of the city before getting shot..dying of chakra strain...or falling to the common cold..or any of the thousands of house hold illnesses from the real world...he has no resistance too


----------



## Ghost_of_Gashir (Sep 28, 2010)

Kobe Bryant would fuckin destroy Pain.


----------



## Kael Hyun (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *liar*...
> 
> peins not *dodging snipers* and he can't possibly do enough damage in a single CT to put it down
> 
> so no..your wrong



Do you realize how childish you sound? Except defeat WatchDog, your only making it worse for yourself...


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *come on now sasu this is your third dupe*...and your track record with me has always been bad lying is just making it worse
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm done arguing with an idiot who thinks I'm a person I don't even know.

Everybody with common sense knows who wins. Lock it up mods


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> again this is simply not true...its perfectly valid to bring up far weaker characters feats if they are shown to be less durable or less powerful...barring special circumstances for their feats its totally legit
> 
> 
> why would I try to prove something I'm not even arguing for ? I've pretty much said anything in the high caliber variety...the fifty cal barretas the army snipers use etc would seriously ruin WB days
> ...



by your logic OP pistols are > building busters since tehy can hurt people who can easily tank building busters

that means every 2 year old and their grandmother in OP are automatically building buster+ if they use a OP gun

im sure that doesnt sound right even to you 



Makabi said:


> With hundreds of people shooting at him with high powered weapons, there is no way Pain can dodge every bullet even with ST



if pein was a normal person, yes. however pein is superhuman with around transonic movement speed or more if we powerscale. it is impossible for people to be able to AIM and hit pein, he would be more likely to run into bullets by accident. But the LAPD do not have teh required firepower to create such a wall of lead. even if they do somehow muster the equipment one well placed ST should take out the lot.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> I'm done arguing with an idiot who thinks I'm a person I don't even know.
> 
> Everybody with common sense knows who wins. Lock it up mods



you are a liar...you fumble into torpedoing your own posts...you are a dupe your too similar not to be



MyNindoForever said:


> Do you realize how childish you sound? Except defeat WatchDog, your only making it worse for yourself...



you have no proof that he can dodge dozens of snipers way outside his visual range

it isn't like he's walking in here with his three sixty vision here he will have to stop...he will weaken and he will be killed



pikachuwei said:


> by your logic OP pistols are > building busters since tehy can hurt people who can easily tank building busters
> 
> that means every 2 year old and their grandmother in OP are automatically building buster+ if they use a OP gun
> 
> im sure that doesnt sound right even to you



now your just being retarded ontop of derailing a thread and completely distorting a persons posts


----------



## Kael Hyun (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have no proof that he can dodge dozens of snipers way outside his visual range
> 
> it isn't like he's walking in here with his three sixty vision here he will have to stop...he will weaken and he will be killed



My problem with your argument is that your making it seem like hitting someone moving as fast as Pain does is a walk in the park and that they would be able to set up the conditions to do it. Here's a fact your forgetting: it's harder then hell to aim a sniper at a target basically standing still it's even harder to hit one moving target. This kind of situation is 100x harder and with someone as fast as Pain. It would be almost fucking impossible unless they got frigging lucky. You would need to have a military hardware to make that shot even plausible and LAPD doesn't have that kind of hardware, tech, or the training to HIT something moving as fast as he does!


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you are a liar...you fumble into torpedoing your own posts...you are a dupe your too similar not to be
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol you have to be one stupid fuck to believe I'm Sasuono. I swear on my little brother's grave( RIP) that I'm not his dupe. I'm no longer addressing thus because any more would be the equivalent of trying to win an argument against a wall.

Goddammit. IWD I live in Los Angeles. These super snipers don't fucking exist. Good lord. Hiding outside of his visual range? i wish you can come here and point out these snipers who routinely miss your average bank robber and drug dealer.

lol IWD imagine a nightmare of an unseen force catapulting people several hundred meters through the sky at supersonic speeds. That is what Pain will be to us. Get a fucking grip.

Also to address the 5 sec rule. Who said he can't just run around at Mach speeds till it's done. No one is going to be able to hit him at those speeds.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> My problem with your argument is that your making it seem like hitting someone moving as fast as Pain does is a walk in the park and that they would be able to set up the conditions to do it. Here's a fact your forgetting: it's harder then hell to aim a sniper at a target basically standing still it's even harder to hit one moving target. This kind of situation is 100x harder and with someone as fast as Pain. It would be almost fucking impossible unless they got frigging lucky. You would need to have a military hardware to make that shot even plausible and LAPD doesn't have that kind of hardware, tech, or the training to HIT something moving as fast as he does!



huh? oh ho no...I'm not saying their going to hit him when he is actively speed blitzing people at all

I'm saying the times he needs to use his big moves that leave him stationary...are when he's in serious trouble as there will likely be multiple dozens of people ready from a safe position to take action

theres also the issue of CIS peins suffers from this worse then any other NU character besides..maybe naruto



The Chakra Fro said:


> lol you have to be one stupid fuck to believe I'm Sasuono. I swear on my little brother's grave( RIP) that I'm not his dupe. I'm no longer addressing thus because any more would be the equivalent of trying to win an argument against a wall.]



well then theres some one else who fucks up as badly as him has near identical posting style..and has the same grudge against the same posters



The Chakra Fro said:


> lGoddammit. IWD I live in Los Angeles. These super snipers don't fucking exist. Good lord. Hiding outside of his visual range? i wish you can come here and point out these snipers who routinely miss your average bank robber and drug dealer.



your average bank robber and drug dealer is a mentally deluded ego maniac with mild retardation that has a deep compulsory need to proclaim his dvinity..and enlighten those around him with pain and suffering

average bank robbers also don't face an OBD setting where the entire city is fully blood lusted..and every one and everything will be under OBD terms doing everything and anything to achieve a win



The Chakra Fro said:


> l]lol IWD imagine a nightmare of an unseen force catapulting people several hundred meters through the sky at supersonic speeds. That is what Pain will be to us. Get a fucking grip.



I lived through Hurricane Andrew slick...I know exactly how fucking terrifying an force of nature that can casually render your home...and your city or a fair chunk of it to rubble

theres a difference between how we'd normally act and how we're gonna act per OBD regs and thread parameters this has actually been addressed before  



The Chakra Fro said:


> lAlso to address the 5 sec rule. Who said he can't just run around at Mach speeds till it's done. No one is going to be able to hit him at those speeds.



because he never did this in the series...


----------



## Kael Hyun (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> huh? oh ho no...I'm not saying their going to hit him when he is actively speed blitzing people at all
> 
> I'm saying the times he needs to use his big moves that leave him stationary...are when he's in serious trouble as there will likely be multiple dozens of people ready from a safe position to take action



Not really notice how the majoraty of him takeing time is him gloteing. No if he wants to there can be little charge time the only thing he needs to worry on is its cooling time.



> theres also the issue of CIS peins suffers from this worse then any other NU character besides..maybe naruto



CIS? Since when were the Separatists involved


----------



## RikodouGai (Sep 28, 2010)

In scenario 1, he can solo if he uses stealth. 

Only 1 of his 2 large attacks actually require him to be in the open. 

All he has to do to use Chibaku Tensei is create it and send it into the sky to do its thing. 

He'd just do this multiple times until every section of the city is completely destroyed, but of course he isn't going to do this in a day. He'd have to rest at least a day after each CT.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> Not really notice how the majoraty of him takeing time is him* gloteing*. No if he wants to there can be little charge time the only thing he needs to worry on is its cooling time.]



exactly between this and the time he needs to rest or charge...he can and will be exposed and in danger


MyNindoForever said:


> CIS? Since when were the Separatists involved



CIS = character induced stupidity


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have no proof that he can dodge dozens of snipers way outside his visual range
> 
> it isn't like he's walking in here with his three sixty vision here he will have to stop...he will weaken and he will be killed
> 
> ...



you have no proof LAPD snipers have the skill to snipe a human sized target moving at the speed of sound or faster from hundreds of metres away. Bloodlust doesnt mean normal humans suddenly get godly sniping skills



> now your just being retarded ontop of derailing a thread and completely distorting a persons posts



just because you cannot make a intelligent reply doesnt mean you have to go around claiming other people are making shit up. 

I did not distort your post at all, you claim that OP guns are special in a way because they can hurt people who can tank building busters easily. Thus you are implying that OP guns can do more damage than building busters. Thus you are implying any person with a OP gun is a building buster +

theres a easy way to end this IWD, admit that unless proof is given on the contrary, OP guns are nothing special and are just your average ball round shooting muskets (they arent even rifles, to be a rifle the gun has to shoot rifled rounds)


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> you have no proof LAPD snipers have the skill to snipe a human sized target moving at the speed of sound or faster from hundreds of metres away. Bloodlust doesnt mean normal humans suddenly get godly sniping skills]



why the fuck do you keep brining up speed of sound I've already said numerous god damned times...he is going to act his usual dipshit self...with his usual idiocy and it will kill him
[





pikachuwei said:


> just because you cannot make a intelligent reply doesnt mean you have to go around claiming other people are making shit up.



no you see I have made an argument...and argued for it..you have entered a thread specifically to ridicule and bandwagon beef...this has been called out by another poster

your the one breaking the rules by derailing the thread...in a half assed attempt to poke my logic which failed


pikachuwei said:


> I did not distort your post at all, you claim that OP guns are special in a way because they can hurt people who can tank building busters easily. Thus you are implying that OP guns can do more damage than building busters. Thus you are implying any person with a OP gun is a building buster +



this is a complete and utter distortion of my words...what I had said was that these guns being fucking ancient flintlock caliber weaponry yet being able to harm these ultra durable bricks is asanine..in a totally irrelevant point about another character..in a multipage strawman

you have derailed this thread..you've lied distorted misrepresented and came in guns blazing either because you had a bone to pick where bored..or where called it...and you've done everything from attack my ability...to continue to insist weaponry..that can't even harm a grizzly bear....will some how...kill a bunch of class fifty/forty bricks



pikachuwei said:


> theres a easy way to end this IWD, admit that unless proof is given on the contrary, OP guns are nothing special and are just your average ball round shooting muskets (they arent even rifles, to be a rifle the gun has to shoot rifled rounds)



theres an easy way to end this pika...its you admitting you had absolutely no reason to enter this thread other then to troll a poster....that you've lied and distorted evidence and posts

and that you..genuinely feel something so weak it cannot penetrate the hyde of a fucking rhino...that a normal person can survive with some thick sweaters and a block of wood....can some how harm superhumans...and defending some asinine interpretation of there in....when you concede you have literally derailed a thread to flame and troll a poster...thats when this will end

other wise you lying dishonest troll I'm not going no where..and we're gonna continue this....for the next...six months..or mods will lock this thread...


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why the fuck do you keep brining up speed of sound I've already said numerous god damned times...he is going to act his usual dipshit self...with his usual idiocy and it will kill him



you DO realize that CIS is off right? RIGHT? and Pein is going to be bloodlusted by default

CIS off and bloodlust = no random posing and being retarded.



> no you see I have made an argument...and argued for it..you have entered a thread specifically to ridicule and bandwagon beef...this has been called out by another poster



lol what poster



> this is a complete and utter distortion of my words...what I had said was that these guns being fucking ancient flintlock caliber weaponry yet being able to harm these ultra durable bricks is asanine..in a totally irrelevant point about another character..in a multipage strawman



you are still implying that OP guns are stronger than normal guns despite circumstancial to no evidence supporting it.



> theres an easy way to end this pika...its you admitting you had absolutely no reason to enter this thread other then to troll a poster....that you've lied and distorted evidence and posts
> 
> and that you..genuinely feel something so weak it cannot penetrate the hyde of a fucking rhino...that a normal person can survive with some thick sweaters and a block of wood....can some how harm superhumans...and defending some asinine interpretation of there in....when you concede you have literally derailed a thread to flame and troll a poster...thats when this will end



unlike some people, i dont troll. Maybe you are misunderstanding, but my intention is not trolling.



> other wise you lying dishonest troll I'm not going no where..and we're gonna continue this....for the next...six months..or mods will lock this thread..



firstly try be nicer to others if you want them to be respectful to you. Just because you are hiding behind a computer screen doesnt mean you have to get all hyper aggressive and call people names.

plus Im fine with this continuing. I find it absurd that you truly believe in some of the arguments you posted, and would like to try and save you from what i see as idiocy.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 28, 2010)

This shit is still going on.


----------



## David (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> you have no proof LAPD snipers have the skill to snipe a human sized target moving at the speed of sound or faster from hundreds of metres away. Bloodlust doesnt mean normal humans suddenly get godly sniping skills



Thank you for stating that (that was my thought in a better way than I myself was able to express my opinion on what's going on here).

*Edit:* Though I disagree that Pain is (consistently - putting aside the ridiculous RasenShuriken feat -and judging from his poorly drawn-out Taijutsu fight with Base Naruto) supersonic, this is closer to what I meant in regards to what I was saying before (about how humans will usually *not* be able to snipe something moving faster than they can keep up with).


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> you DO realize that CIS is off right? RIGHT? and Pein is going to be bloodlusted by default
> 
> CIS off and bloodlust = no random posing and being retarded.



it's a scenario match...CIS iirc is on during those




pikachuwei said:


> lol what poster



coming from you...HA!

[





pikachuwei said:


> you are still implying that OP guns are stronger than normal guns despite circumstancial to no evidence supporting it.



no genius I'm implying that short of military grade high caliber bullets...nothing they have will critically injure whitebeard before he starts leveling miles of LA cityscape 



pikachuwei said:


> unlike some people, i dont troll. Maybe you are misunderstanding, but my intention is not trolling.



there is literally absolutely no reason for you to have brought whitebeard up beyond a hamfisted attempted at attacking a poster's argument....you entirely derailed a thread...which is actually breaking the rules..your continuing this argument continuing to derail the thread..is further evidence of trolling



pikachuwei said:


> firstly try be nicer to others if you want them to be respectful to you. Just because you are hiding behind a computer screen doesnt mean you have to get all hyper aggressive and call people names.



no see I can be civil and respectful when a poster in question deserves it when they show a history of good contributions and intelligent debate when they extent the courtesy and make good posts...notice how I don't jump down every ones throat but only a select few...and even with estrecca I can be civil in other threads nindo and I haven't exchanged hostile barbs in this thread...and I even tried to civilly reply to cthulu when he asked some questions earlier (though he missed them or ignored the answers )

the reason why I am hostile here towards you.. is because you honestly..have absolutely no basis to be doing what your doing...you have derailed a thread have deliberately misrepresented me deliberately misrepresented arguments..you have dodged distorted and twisted..and have lied..I will not just walk into this kind of amateurish behavior...and approach it with smiles and overtures of respect

it deserves no such thing

and as for me hiding behind a computer screen In RL I'm just as big an asshole to idiots...I really don't care...maybe I'm just a misanthropic jerk...but I have zero patients for this sort of shit I'm a universal bastard



pikachuwei said:


> plus Im fine with this continuing. I find it absurd that you truly believe in some of the arguments you posted, and would like to try and save you from what i see as idiocy.



your constantly dodging just how weak flintlock pistols of that period are..compared to modern weaponry...you have not actually presented an argument beyond personal attacks and really baseless accusation and a poor mans attempt to throw around your E wang...which is to be honest probably the worse offense in this thread "dur hurr two guys agree with me now stfu and be humbled" is the worse manner of debate it is the mark of a lazy debater thats lost touched with the pulse of debate..and has...declined


if you want to continue this to it bold faced and direct do it with an actual leg to stand on..and maybe with an actual comprehension of what i'm arguing because so far..you really don't seem to understand at all what I'm actually going for..which leads me to think yes..your trolling


----------



## RikodouGai (Sep 28, 2010)

soulfucking

CIS is off, unless stated otherwise.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

RikodouGai said:


> soulfucking
> 
> CIS is off, unless stated otherwise.



then he lasts a hellalot longer and does more damage but the man still has to become stationary at various points and his best move also seems to be the one that taxes him the most barring the resurrection


----------



## Ky Hakubi (Sep 28, 2010)

Seriously? Have you spent the last six pages arguing about shit that doens't even apply to this fight? Who gives a fuck if the pistols in OP are building busters or not? Pein isn't facing them.

If CIS is off, then Pein shouldn't have a problem with the first scenario. I am a firm believer of the idea that Naruto is complete drivel. I find it hard to believe that these 'amazing superhuman ninjas' are any of that. The henge and kawarimi are just about the only moves in any character's repertiore that resemble anything remotely close to stealth and espionage. Everything else is a big, flashy eye-catcher.

Also, as I understand it, Kisame stated that Gai's gated speed was extemely rare, so I'm not about to call anyone in Naruto anywhere close to supersonic. Raikage was hella fast, and I haven't read anyone approaching that speed. I will also freely admit that I haven't read passed the fight with Danzo, as the whole 'Look at me, I have sharingan eyes in my arm of hokage wood' was so much 'pull whatever I can to make the sharingan more cool from straight outta my ass that I can' completely killed whatever chance the series had of redeming itself. The ignoring Hinata's confession of love to fap after Sasuke didn't help matters.

Keeping those in mind, I'm inclined to believe that Pein will win. While not supersonic (IMO), Naruto characters are faster than normals. It's next to impossible to track a fast moving target through a rifle scope, depending on range and level of zoom. The closer you are, the harder to track, the farther you are the harder to correctly aim. This isn't taking the elements into play.

As for henge, he can simply copy someone else's appearance. What are the odds that someone is going to directly address him in the first place. Of the mob of hundreds of people running around trying to figure out wtf is going on, it's extremely unlikely that he's going to be singled out. Also depending on the location, it's unlikely that a third of the local population speak english any damn ways.

As for his big guns, would he even need them? How hard would it be to throw a fistful of shuriken, then kawarimi+henge with the nearest mailbox when the heat turns up? It's not like ammo would be a major problem as knife shops are a dime a dozen.

The second scenario would be a bit trickier. If he isn't using stealth (and by the sound of it, the OP bans it outright) then he would likely have to use his trumps. This would make him a good target for anyone with a firearm if he has to remain stationary. Just how long he has to remain so to complete said attacks I don't know. I've never considered static manga/comic panels to be a good indication as to the passage of time, which also is the root of my disbelief of several claims of movement speed for various series.

If he's stationary long enough, and not floating X amount of feet in the air, then I don't see him surviving (depending of course on the saturation of gun toteing maniacs). If he's too high up, then unless the LAPD has ballistic equiped helicopters, then I don't see too much problem for him. Snipers might still pose a threat in that instance, but given the height he acheived in the previous scan, I think they'd be non-issue.


----------



## Chainwave (Sep 28, 2010)

Pain is not going to get sniped.

Even if he goes on an all out offensive with no stealth, he will still be untouchable. All he needs to do is utilize a medium powered Shinra Tensei, which does not tax him out, like this one:
Link removed
Link removed
Link removed
To cause widespread scattershot damage, and quickly switch locations via flight.

In times of needing to recharge chakra, Pain aside from being able to hide anywhere as a henged object or person, if not simply resting underground, can set up his rain jutsu to track anybody who would approach his resting area, and quickly take care of them.

By the way, what are snipers exactly going to do when every Shinra Tensei raises a major dust cloud? Blind firing?


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 28, 2010)

ky's right about that particular topic...and derailing a thread is a no no

moving on

1, chain he's not fast enough to bullet time...multiple bullets coming at him from all angels..

and I'm not sure how much dust its gonna kick up glass asfault and so on yes

2, cities too big


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 28, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *theres nothing to support modern snipers being able to harm*..*a class 70 some brick other then*...a desire to argue...and an attempt to cling to "zomg teh flintlocks" to..well argue pointlessly



bolded above highlighted from a previous post in response to mine where u clearly knew I was addressing normal guns as you responded to it citing fisk in regards to flintlock and normal bullets.

below=/ your current post with the only thing worth addressing as it makes clear you're either ludicrous obsfucate (how fitting your own term applies to you) or simply a bold face liar trying to backpeddle.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why would I try to prove something I'm not even arguing for ? *I've pretty much said anything in the high caliber variety...the fifty cal barretas the army snipers use etc would seriously ruin WB days*


---

Beyond the above NO, you cannot hand wave feats from "weaker" characters to stronger from a different universe in support of your argument because you say so. They're not WB feats, so they're not relevant. WB feats are relevant. Typing anymore than this for you at this point is a waste of time. 
"insert some flames". I'm done responding to this. 

----------

Edit: On topic, ...ummm.... Pein still wins....via henge, sneaking, a key strikes at focal law enforcement points over the course of time.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> bolded above highlighted from a previous post in response to mine where u clearly knew I was addressing normal guns as you responded to it citing fisk in regards to flintlock and normal bullets.]



yeah modern snipers...IE the LA PD and what they have on him...context counts kido..we where talking about that city...and what they can do to bring him down




Cthulhu-versailles said:


> below=/ your current post with the only thing worth addressing as it makes clear you're either ludicrous obsfucate (how fitting your own term applies to you) or simply a bold face liar trying to backpeddle.



its funny how you gloss over pretty much every time I mention military grade stuffs gonna do anything from mess him up to....one shot him ..but hey in an enternal...quest to hit under the belt.doing this crap seems to be  okay 




Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Beyond the above NO, you cannot hand wave feats from "weaker" characters to stronger from a different universe in support of your argument because you say so. They're not WB feats, so they're not relevant. WB feats are relevant. Typing anymore than this for you at this point is a waste of time.
> "insert some flames". I'm done responding to this.
> 
> ----------



yes you can when its clearly established...that the character in question is miles beneath...the others as a justification for why something is bullshit this has been used all the damn time



Cthulhu-versailles said:


> Edit: On topic, ...ummm.... Pein still wins....via henge, sneaking, a key strikes at focal law enforcement points over the course of time.



pein gets his head blown off..or runs out of chakra..or dies from diseases he has no immunity too

take your pick really


----------



## Cthulhu-versailles (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pein gets his head blown off..or runs out of chakra..or dies from diseases he has no immunity too
> 
> take your pick really



what dieases does pein die from?
Why does pein run out of chakra when he can easily enough rest and remain unactive for long periods of time thx to henge or just hiding?
Pein will be seen by his enemies to get his head blown offf and not sneaking around, launching suprrise attacks while disguised why ? 
CST will be escape from by what or who?


----------



## Ky Hakubi (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pein gets his head blown off..or runs out of chakra..or dies from diseases he has no immunity too
> 
> take your pick really



1). Maybe during the CST or something while stationary, unless he hovers however high in the air. That's still going to be a tough shot with a sniper rifle.

2). Nothing stopping him from hiding in an abandonded building. If local crooks can hide from police, whats stopping Pein? It's not like every single nook and cranny is going to be searched. There are several air vents he could slid into, and no one would be the wiser.

3). Because disease is going to automaticaly set in and kill what is apparently already a corpse?

Again, I don't see what's stopping him in the first scenario. The second is still a bit up in the air for me.


----------



## Devil Kings (Sep 29, 2010)

How would a guy that's already dead, dies from a disease.

I mean hating a character is one thing, but to be so bias to claim Pain dying from a disease is just stupid, and idiotic.


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pein gets his head blown off..or runs out of chakra..or dies from* diseases he has no immunity* too
> 
> take your pick really



This is the only relevant answer in that post.

He's to fast for rifleman to corner him from all sides. One on one is not an option. Snipers ain't touching him. Elite Marines have have a hard enough time shooting stationary targets. One that is moving past there visual perception to the point where is a blur is a no no. Especially from LAPD snipers.

Regualr pistols aren't doing jack shit. He took hits from SM Naruto. Him getting hurt from your run in the mill 9mm is laughable considering regular people survive them.

He's not running out of chakra from casual ST's around the city. Henge doesn't take enough Chakra to warrant anything major. Pein will simply replenish his chakra by henging into a car on the street.

The third is a viable option but it is also unquantifiable. The diseases will kill him but we do no how long they will take. He could be done with his mission by the time the common cold takes care of him.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Cthulhu-versailles said:


> what dieases does pein die from?
> Why does pein run out of chakra when he can easily enough rest and remain unactive for long periods of time thx to henge or just hiding?
> Pein will be seen by his enemies to get his head blown offf and not sneaking around, launching suprrise attacks while disguised why ?
> CST will be escape from by what or who?



well peins up against a city with a population larger then anything he's ever nuked....thats bigger then anything he never nuked...its going to take a shit load out of him...

he can't really blend in perfectly in a modern city..not unless he plans on turning into a mail box..or a lightpole and can some how  gravity nuke while ya know a pole





Devil Kings said:


> How would a guy that's already dead, dies from a disease.
> 
> I mean hating a character is one thing, but to be so bias to claim Pain dying from a disease is just stupid, and idiotic.



the dead body is remote controlled by a person in spectacularly bad health who's got zero resistance to our stuff




The Chakra Fro said:


> The third is a viable option but it is also unquantifiable. The diseases will kill him but we do no how long they will take. He could be done with his mission by the time the common cold takes care of him.



it certainly is quantifiable if we're to take conquistador records as any indication in some situations a particuarly nasty bug...wiped out a village of people within six days of the first afflicted some three hundred people died...on hispanola....in central America..similar things happened with entire populations being wiped inside some months

keep in mind these guys while having no resistance to western diseases did have thousands of years of an immune system built up to stave off their own stuff Pein does not even have this in this case

nagatos physical condition..was so bad that I actually cringed reading that page and felt bad for the character


----------



## Ky Hakubi (Sep 29, 2010)

I wasn't aware that Nagato himself had anything to do with this battle situation, as the OP states that only Deva Pein is involved... I'll agree that Nagato would hack up a lung from the smog alone but again, it seems that the Deva body itself is the only one there.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Ky Hakubi said:


> I wasn't aware that Nagato himself had anything to do with this battle situation, as the OP states that only Deva Pein is involved... I'll agree that Nagato would hack up a lung from the smog alone but again, it seems that the Deva body itself is the only one there.



he would have to be near by...Pinocchio may have wireless strings but the receiver seems to need to be at least aways nearby  I don't think we've ever seen him operate his  corpses from..far far away

let alone an entire verse aways


----------



## Eternal Pein (Sep 29, 2010)

Someone who is already dead dying from a diesase


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Hollowed Shinigami said:


> Someone who is already dead dying from a diesase



no the remote controller


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 29, 2010)

Damn the whole disease thing changes the debate. Uhm, all other points I disagree to but i would have to agree that he has no defense against the modern bacteria and diseaese floating around that we have grown immune to. It's kind of like what happened to the aliens in War of the Worlds. Completely superior in weaponry to all of humanity but died due to no resistance to simple stuff like the common cold. Unless someone convinces me other-wise... I concede.

 As much as I hate to say it, it looks like you stomped me this time, IWD. I can't argue against something as concrete as that.

 How the hell did nobody think of this before lol it flew over everyone's head for 14 pages  ?


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## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 1, chain he's not fast enough to bullet time...multiple bullets coming at him from all angels..
> 
> and I'm not sure how much dust its gonna kick up glass asfault and so on yes



he doesnt have to bullet time. all he has to do is aimdodge, or be fast enough that the shooters cant hit him. That is very easy for a superhuman like pein

and the medium sized STs kick up a lot of stuff, with teh amount of buildings in LA each ST will send concrete smog, dust everywhere, they will hang around for much longer than 5 seconds.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Damn the whole disease thing changes the debate. Uhm, all other points I disagree to but i would have to agree that he has no defense against the modern bacteria and diseaese floating around that we have grown immune to. It's kind of like what happened to the aliens in War of the Worlds. Completely superior in weaponry to all of humanity but died due to no resistance to simple stuff like the common cold. Unless someone convinces me other-wise... I concede.



well the aliens in WOW thing was BS just because they where as likely to get the flu..or what ever human diseases as your dog being an entirely separate species and all

Pein being a human from a group that has absolutely no exposure to our gunk

although it goes both ways nagatos germs would likely be hell on wheels to modern man...but I think our med techs better

it would also take longer..for pein to die then the aliens...but given his condition..instead of weeks it'd be days allot of LA's gonna get fucked up though


The Chakra Fro said:


> As much as I hate to say it, it looks like you stomped me this time, IWD. I can't argue against something as concrete as that.



I think I mentioned it before...when Cthulu asked if the sewer where a good place to hide my instinct was to scream HELL NO 



The Chakra Fro said:


> How the hell did nobody think of this before lol it flew over everyone's head for 14 pages  ?



I think we all though nagato would be able to remote control yahikos corpse...from an entire universe away

I mean I can buy long distance control but the dudes gotta atleast be on the same planet

and it is usually brought up in naruto or OP vs RL threads...aside from military might being the winning edge...bugs are a very nasty thing



pikachuwei said:


> he doesnt have to bullet time. all he has to do is aimdodge, or be fast enough that the shooters cant hit him. That is very easy for a superhuman like pein]



and I can completely and totally buy the man aim doging any moron stupid enough to run up to him and shoot at him

but guys well out of his visual range?



pikachuwei said:


> and the medium sized STs kick up a lot of stuff, with teh amount of buildings in LA each ST will send concrete smog, dust everywhere, they will hang around for much longer than 5 seconds.



and yeah..that's gonna be a problem..but it shouldn't guarantee him a total and complete win


----------



## Uncle Phantom (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> well the aliens in WOW thing was BS just because they where as likely to get the flu..or what ever human diseases as your dog being an entirely separate species and all
> 
> Pein being a human from a group that has absolutely no exposure to our gunk
> 
> ...



Yea that's true but he's not going to be able to spread what he's got to all of LA however LA's dieseas have are going to get him if he's rampaging through the city. Especially when he's resting. 

Pain doesn't have enough firepower to down LA in days and he has to before he's dead due to germs and the like.

This feels extremely weird to agree with you because of the posts earlier in this thread but a debate is a debate and part of that is conceding. 

Fuck it, we'll argue in an upcoming thread and go back to what were used to lol. Until then ; it's pretty obvious i've been beaten, so this is my last post in this thread. 

Maybe debaters better than me will find a flaw in the diseases vs. Pain argument but as for me i'm done.


----------



## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

Unless specified Nagato is not present in the match. We always assume that Nagato can somehow control his body from great distances.
Anyways, if it's not the case he can always take over a hospital somewhere with the rest of his bodies and not only survive the diseases but rejuvenate himself and his chakra reserves better. It's stupid to assume Pein is going to stand in one place and does not want his illness to be cured.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

The Chakra Fro said:


> Yea that's true but he's not going to be able to spread what he's got to all of LA however LA's dieseas have are going to get him if he's rampaging through the city. Especially when he's resting.



well his corpse wont...his real body will..I'm actually banking more on his chakra control lessening...the worse he gets..other wise its a double KO situation 


The Chakra Fro said:


> Pain doesn't have enough firepower to down LA in days and he has to before he's dead due to germs and the like.



barring no dedicated resistance..from the people therein..(which he has under blood lust) he could level a city like LA inside of say forty eight hours...with having to fight and what not..it'd take a bit longer

I'm banking on him being to weak to control his flesh bag before...he gets through a few of the major neighborhoods and dying before he can finish the fight 


The Chakra Fro said:


> This feels extremely weird to agree with you because of the posts earlier in this thread but a debate is a debate and part of that is conceding.



I always get aggressive but its a debate tactic..not an actual personal opinion...although you do kinda remind me of that guy

only he'd never actually play nice with posters



The Chakra Fro said:


> Fuck it, we'll argue in an upcoming thread and go back to what were used to lol. Until then ; it's pretty obvious i've been beaten, so this is my last post in this thread.



probably... 



The Chakra Fro said:


> Maybe debaters better than me will find a flaw in the diseases vs. Pain argument but as for me i'm done.



the option is the OP'er turning it off as it where...its been debated..for awhile I'm not sure if any of the forums top tiers have taken a whack at it..one of them was the one who originally brought it up in a thread almost a year ago

Its a very cheap win though



willyvereb said:


> Unless specified Nagato is not present in the match. We always assume that Nagato can somehow control his body from great distances.
> Anyways, if it's not the case he can always take over a hospital somewhere with the rest of his bodies and not only survive the diseases but rejuvenate himself and his chakra reserves better. It's stupid to assume Pein is going to stand in one place and does not want his illness to be cured.



how can he possibly control a flesh puppet from a universe away? the man has to be there

pein and nagato aren't separate entities..you could argue nagatos corpses are standard equip kinda thing


----------



## Chainwave (Sep 29, 2010)

Pain dying from a disease of all things? Seriously, that even counting as a win for LA is the equivalent of them waiting for Pain to die of old age. Besides that, Nagato shouldn't be in this fight even if he controls Yahiko in the manga, as a natural user of every 6path jutsu he could preserve his own body by using summons or animating people as spiked puppets to care of him. Not to mention adding him only makes Deva being respawnable.

That said, I have to repeat myself once again in that Pain won't get sniped. contrary to his grandiose speeches, it's been proven that he can stealthily maneuver himself even when not actively trying to be, by him absolutely ambushing Iruka and reaching Tsunade without a problem. He won't be stationary unless he's doing a Shinra Tensei, and Shinra Tensei in itself can repel bullets, not to mention raising huge dust clouds to obscur further vision by snipers. 

Oh and he can fly, and his jutsu are waay too good for causing panic as a distraction. Imagine Pain going inside a mid sized office building and letting off the same Shinra Tensei that threw 3 house-sized boss toads outside of Konoha. The building would get ripped to shreds and it's remains would scattershot and kill everyone in the surrounding area. 

And let's not even begin imagining what Chou Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei will do, oh man. Sure it won't one-shot LA, not even close, but it will ruin all the sewage system, electricity and god knows what else. If Pain decides to make his Chibaku Tensei fall on top of the city, instead of crumbling away, the resulting earthquakes, dust clouds and property damage would be horrendous. And it will kill all competent opposition, if they're all been clued in on Pain's location beforehand, and gathered up to try to end him.


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Chainwave said:


> Pain dying from a disease of all things? Seriously, that even counting as a win for LA is the equivalent of them waiting for Pain to die of old age. Besides that, Nagato shouldn't be in this fight even if he controls Yahiko in the manga, as a natural user of every 6path jutsu he could preserve his own body by using summons or animating people as spiked puppets to care of him. Not to mention adding him only makes Deva being respawnable.]



yes pein will get infected and die of something yes that counts as a win...

nagatos body was catastrophically bad..I'm not entirely sure how one could consider his eyes preserving anything..it really wonked him out from all we saw
[





Chainwave said:


> That said, I have to repeat myself once again in that Pain won't get sniped. contrary to his grandiose speeches, it's been proven that he can stealthily maneuver himself even when not actively trying to be, by him absolutely ambushing Iruka and reaching Tsunade without a problem. He won't be stationary unless he's doing a Shinra Tensei, and Shinra Tensei in itself can repel bullets, not to mention raising huge dust clouds to obscur further vision by snipers.



he's going to be facing under a blood lusted scenario..every one with a gun...to well trained cops

the chances of him being hit when he's probably literally facing numbers in the hundreds of thousands...is..high even with the speed edge


willyvereb said:


> Oh and he can fly, and his jutsu are waay too good for causing panic as a distraction. Imagine Pain going inside a mid sized office building and letting off the same Shinra Tensei that threw 3 house-sized boss toads outside of Konoha. The building would get ripped to shreds and it's remains would scattershot and kill everyone in the surrounding area.



exactly no ones disputing the body count



willyvereb said:


> And let's not even begin imagining what Chou Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei will do, oh man. Sure it won't one-shot LA, not even close, but it will ruin all the sewage system, electricity and god knows what else. If Pain decides to make his Chibaku Tensei fall on top of the city, instead of crumbling away, the resulting earthquakes, dust clouds and property damage would be horrendous. And it will kill all competent opposition, if they're all been clued in on Pain's location beforehand, and gathered up to try to end him.



unless pein cheeses off the unstable area around him i doubt he;s gonna cause earth quakes..and the more damage he does to the city..the more he risks...making nagatos conditions even worse


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## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> and I can completely and totally buy the man aim doging any moron stupid enough to run up to him and shoot at him
> 
> but guys well out of his visual range?
> 
> ...



Pein doesnt have to KNOW that theres a dude aiming at him. As long as pein keeps moving if the sniper is more than a few hundred metres away hes gonna have a hell of a time even keeping his scope on him. THis is if pein moves at human speeds you know, he is far faster than a normal human so most likely the snipers would lose him in their scope

its hard enough already to shoot a stationary human sized target from hundreds of metres away on a shooting range. throw in cover and the fact the target will be moving very fast means your average human sniper has no chance in hell of getting an accurate shot.

the fact that theres so much cover in LA doesnt help.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> Pein doesnt have to KNOW that theres a dude aiming at him. As long as pein keeps moving if the sniper is more than a few hundred metres away hes gonna have a hell of a time even keeping his scope on him. THis is if pein moves at human speeds you know, he is far faster than a normal human so most likely the snipers would lose him in their scope[



24/7 running at potentially supersonic speeds? seriously? cause thats what needs to happen



pikachuwei said:


> its hard enough already to shoot a stationary human sized target from hundreds of metres away on a shooting range. throw in cover and the fact the target will be moving very fast means your average human sniper has no chance in hell of getting an accurate shot.
> 
> the fact that theres so much cover in LA doesnt help.



how many people own a gun in the US? in the city of LA? they are all completely bloodlusted...they wont be running scared

he's gonna get drowned in fodder he'll have to slow down eventually..or constantly..CST spam...can his controllers sickly body handle that? while simultaneously likely being afflicted by viruses he's got no resistance too?

this has been my main gripe the whole thread through it aint gonna be nearly as easy as some made it out to be


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## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> *snip*


Can you edit your post? You mistakenly used my name on the quote for something totally different. Thank you.

@Pikachuwei:
Well, see the alternative. It's even more serious since Nagato gets modern healthcare and thus better chakra recovery in one of LA's hospitals. Plus he has the rest of his bodies guarding him since if  Nagato must be somewhere "nearby" that means his other five bodies must be somewhere also. They aren't participating in the battle but still a factor at ambushing Nagato since it's a Deva Pein vs LA battle. Not Deva Pein and Nagato vs LA. Outside factors can be used for non-battles.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> 24/7 running at potentially supersonic speeds? seriously? cause thats what needs to happen
> 
> 
> 
> ...



he doesnt have to run at full speed all the time, even just moving around at barely peak human speeds is going to make it hard for anyone to even keep their scope on him. if he goes full speed its literally impossible for people to shoot them. Its like trying to shoot down a human sized jet fighter when theres cover all around him. Nigh impossible to do for a human.

when you are so much faster than normal humans (like pein is) you can just run around blitzing people. pein will most likely gut then before they can raise  their gun to shoot. When the situation gets sticky he will just use ST to clear them out. His superior movement speed means that people will not be able to regather around him in enough numbers to take advantage of ST cooldown.

imo saying nagato dying from sickness is kinda an unfair way to make pein lose.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> he doesnt have to run at full speed all the time, even just moving around at barely peak human speeds is going to make it hard for anyone to even keep their scope on him. if he goes full speed its literally impossible for people to shoot them. Its like trying to shoot down a human sized jet fighter when theres cover all around him. Nigh impossible to do for a human.



woah woah jet fighter? I'll buy the guys fast but not that fast...


pikachuwei said:


> when you are so much faster than normal humans (like pein is) you can just run around blitzing people. pein will most likely gut then before they can raise  their gun to shoot. When the situation gets sticky he will just use ST to clear them out. His superior movement speed means that people will not be able to regather around him in enough numbers to take advantage of ST cooldown.



how much faster then normal humans? how much more then bullets? I know he's fast as all hell but I was under the impression aside from two or three characters no one broke super/hypersonic 



pikachuwei said:


> imo saying nagato dying from sickness is kinda an unfair way to make pein lose.



it's a legit side affect that has historical significance to boot..only its worse for pein..since he'd be exposed to completely alien bugs

in scenario matches victories can become extremely cheap if one side has..something that be exploited as much as this can..Nagatos just as dangerous to us though


----------



## Masa (Sep 29, 2010)

LOL, the common cold solos!

I can see this coming up in other threads.

EU Luke Skywalker can't defeat Los Angeles because he catches a cold!


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

Masa said:


> LOL, the common cold solos!
> 
> I can see this coming up in other threads.



it has..for as long as I been posting in regards to naruto vs rl threads 





Masa said:


> EU Luke Skywalker can't defeat Los Angeles because he catches a cold!



one would think a guy who can shrug off a soulfuck...and move a micro blackhole can handle any lil disease just fine


----------



## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> woah woah jet fighter? I'll buy the guys fast but not that fast...
> 
> 
> how much faster then normal humans? how much more then bullets? I know he's fast as all hell but I was under the impression aside from two or three characters no one broke super/hypersonic
> ...



most modern fighter jet planes are between mach 1~2, anyways pein doesnt even have to go mach to shake off snipers, approachign supersonic is already good enough.

iirc V1 bee is around mach 2, and theres gai at around mach 3~7. Iirc the mach 3 rasenshuriken calc still stands? pein being top tier should be in the low supersonic level at least.



The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it has..for as long as I been posting in regards to naruto vs rl threads
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats.... kinda different


----------



## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> most modern fighter jet planes are between mach 1~2, anyways pein doesnt even have to go mach to shake off snipers, approachign supersonic is already good enough.]



I know that though I think there be faster ones out there

its just I have a hard time seeing pein sustain that speed constantly while..facing a blood lusted city meat shield

unless OP'er up and shut off BL then its moot



pikachuwei said:


> iirc V1 bee is around mach 2, and theres gai at around mach 3~7. Iirc the mach 3 rasenshuriken calc still stands? pein being top tier should be in the low supersonic level at least.



just because piens top tier does not necessarily mean he's as fast as Gai or the raikage thats one of the reasons why I try to shy away from that kind of abc logic

Gai is a person who's dedicated the bulk of his life to becoming essentially a walking talking anti ninja WMD the guys pure physical skill and he's likely honed that to a extent far surpassing every one else..specifically because thats all he's got 

where as...Pien would never need to do such a thing..or dedicate such time..to such a thing and likely couldn't of mastered his jesus eyes as well as he had if he did

while piens definitely fast he may not be Gai speed..and it would make sense that he isn't 



pikachuwei said:


> thats.... kinda different



put it to you this way a character slightly weaker then him..or greatly so or on his level depending on who you ask...was able to completely Telekentically rebuild his body after it had been completely torn apart/shattered in a cave in

coupled with what ever advanced tech/immune drugs would be swimming around in the blood of a guy like that..the comparisons a bit off..Luke would do just fine


----------



## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

@TIW: Don't turn Pikachuwei's post inside out. He never mentioned that Pein is as fast as Gai, only that he's a top tier character in Naruto. I don't know if the supersonic statement is true but basing on other high tiers let's say he can move at transsonic speeds(Mach 1).
Anyways, the combat speed of a fighter jet goes somewhere at Mach 1 even if moder jet fighters can surpass even that of three times the sound barrier. And to shoot down such fighter for certain, one needs to launch at least two modern AA missiles and it was a full salvo of missiles back in the Cold War era. Simple as that, normal people can't shoot at something that moves faster then sound. And this is on the sky where the jet fighters can't find a cover. Now imagine what happens if you put a supersonic ninja in the middle of a busy town. And I have to add that reacting to sniper rifles isn't out of question for him at all. Arrows make a hissing noise when they travel. Same way if Pein can feel the slight noise of the bullet he can easily evade it even from close distance. Mach 1 speed means someone only needs to move one meter to avoid a Mach 3 bullet from 3 meters. And sniper bullets generally don't move that fast. Their muzzle velocity is somewhere at 7-800 m/s(Mach 2.5) but it quickly looses its speed. From roughly 600 meters(usually the max distance for sniping if you doesn't have a 0.50 rifle) the bullet needs about a whole second to reach the target. If Pein can move at say Mach 1 he can laugh out at the bullets of any kind or dodge the aim of his opposition with utter ease. That's what having or surpassing the speed of sound means.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> @TIW: Don't turn Pikachuwei's post inside out. He never mentioned that Pein is as fast as Gai, only that he's a top tier character in Naruto. I don't know if the supersonic statement is true but basing on other high tiers let's say he can move at transsonic speeds(Mach 1).



I know he didn't say that but he's the best example....and I highly doubt Pein even approaches half of that dudes top speed

pien again isn't going to be dodging one..bullet..two..three..he's gonna be dodging a whole hella lot more then that, and I'm not sure he has the speed feats for that


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## Blackfeather Dragon (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> woah woah jet fighter? I'll buy the guys fast but not that fast...


considering that people are drolling over the F-22 which moves at a max of mach 2, yeah he is 



> how much faster then normal humans? how much more then bullets? I know he's fast as all hell but I was under the impression aside from two or three characters no one broke super/hypersonic


fast enough to avoid all that sniper can throw at him, for more info. go to willybereg post at the last page 




> it's a legit side affect that has historical significance to boot..only its worse for pein..since he'd be exposed to completely alien bugs


pein.....is.....dead



> in scenario matches victories can become extremely cheap if one side has..something that be exploited as much as this can..Nagatos just as dangerous to us though


simple, nagato is non factor in this fight, and if he is them that just make deva respammable, anyways nagato died of over exerting himself 



Masa said:


> LOL, the common cold solos!
> 
> I can see this coming up in other threads.
> 
> EU Luke Skywalker can't defeat Los Angeles because he catches a cold!


fear the common cold


----------



## Masa (Sep 29, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> one would think a guy who can shrug off a soulfuck...and move a micro blackhole can handle any lil disease just fine



One would think a guy who is already dead could also handle a disease just fine...

Also post some feats for Skywalker fighting off a cold...and not just any cold, we need something showing that he can fight off a disease that he has no natural resistance to.


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## Ky Hakubi (Sep 29, 2010)

While I still don't buy even mach 1 Pein, any snipers are going to have to aim more or less directly at him. There's the target lead to consider, but someone faster than a normal human is going to be out of the target scope quickly anyway.

Let's try an experiment, shall we? Take a paper tube, maybe an inch in diameter or so, or a paper towel or toilet paper tube if you have one available. Now try tracking a fly. Do you really think someone can shoot at that with anything remotely approaching accuracy? Granted, with the zoom of a sniper rifle, the target should be a bit larger than the fly, but Pein is also a hell of a lot faster than one too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm dearly hoping for something to cripple Pein in this fight, but I can't think of any myself. The disease thing doesn't seem too viable, as I'm still of the belief that it's only the Deva body in this fight and Nagato is nowhere to be found. I'm pretty sure that this kind of thing has happened before, and is a perfectly viable situation in the OBD as far as I understand.

I know there's going to be a lot of bullets flying, and Pein likely will get grazed a few times, but I don't think they're going to phase him much. If he gets clipped by an RPG for some reason (hey, psycho terrorists exist), then Yeah, his shit'll be all kinds of messed up. I also doubt the rocket is anywhere close to fast enough to catch him...


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## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeah, unless you bring up Guided ATGMS, anti-tank weapons are usually slower than even handgun bullets. Also they leave a very obvious trail behind, not to mention the noise. They won't hit Pein. Unless Pein runs out of Chakra, he's going to win.


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## paulatreides0 (Sep 29, 2010)

A Mach 21+ Missile impales Pain....


Oh, and by impaling, I mean that the antenna/tip on the warhead rips him to shred because it is bigger than his entire body.


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## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

And where do you find a Mach 21 missile? Space Rocket?


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## Satehi (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that Los Angeles without the military doesn't have a mach 21 missile.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

paulatreides0 said:


> A Mach 21+ Missile impales Pain....
> 
> 
> Oh, and by impaling, I mean that the antenna/tip on the warhead rips him to shred because it is bigger than his entire body.



are there EVEN mach 21 + missiles o.O


----------



## Hamaru (Sep 29, 2010)

Pein would be killed. Five seconds is more than enough time to put a few rounds in his head.


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## willyvereb (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> are there EVEN mach 21 + missiles o.O


Old style space rockets for example.
Well, they are about to get back to fashion instead of space shuttles. The NASA does some researches with them.
Other than that I doubt even ICBMs could reach that speed.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> are there EVEN mach 21 + missiles o.O



the Saturn or jupiter class rockets i forget what they are called the hiuge massive ones from the neil armstrong days

the space shuttles move at mach 24 iirc...(the speed batgirl allegedly moves at if you believe the Casstards) and a few ICBMS and long range non nuclear missiles... but their military grade...and I think their banned as per OP


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## pikachuwei (Sep 29, 2010)

^the point is are they even proper weapons oO


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 29, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> ^the point is are they even proper weapons oO



some are yeah and iirc the local bases would actually have them...given the drama with NK the pacific bases should be outfitted with them and anything else that can level entire cities China is supposedly building an ubber mega variant of these capable of taking out nimitz class carriers...and We've basically responded by...zerg rushing into production an ass load of our newest best shit...some of which would also be there sadly that's  all banned

lucky for pein too iirc some of our fastest missiles can be laser guided accurately enough to tag a person sized object

though I was lucky enough to see those old school space rockets up close THEY ARE HUGE...it was like a monument to industry and science man...so imposing despite being old they still really monuments to sheer power and brilliance


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## Masa (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> some are yeah and iirc the local bases would actually have them...given the drama with NK the pacific bases should be outfitted with them and anything else that can level entire cities China is supposedly building an ubber mega variant of these capable of taking out nimitz class carriers...and We've basically responded by...zerg rushing into production an ass load of our newest best shit...some of which would also be there sadly that's  all banned
> 
> lucky for pein too iirc some of our fastest missiles can be laser guided accurately enough to tag a person sized object
> 
> though I was lucky enough to see those old school space rockets up close THEY ARE HUGE...it was like a monument to industry and science man...so imposing despite being old they still really monuments to sheer power and brilliance



Even if they were allowed, good luck keeping a laser pointed at a guy who can move hundreds of miles an hour on the ground and maneuver without losing a lot of speed...


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

Masa said:


> Even if they were allowed, good luck keeping a laser pointed at a guy who can move hundreds of miles an hour on the ground and maneuver without losing a lot of speed...



it's a good thing the military has access to non nuclear ordinance that AOE and are several times more powerful then anything performed on panel by pien

he goin die...against the armed forces really really hard


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## Nikushimi (Sep 30, 2010)

How much of LA does he need to destroy? Just the large cluster of skyscrapers everyone thinks of when they think of "LA", or the actual entire LA area?

Either way, Tendou shouldn't have much trouble. Just use Chou Shinra Tensei right off the bat, then go into hiding to recharge, then come out and do it again somewhere else, rinse and repeat...


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## willyvereb (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's a good thing the military has access to non nuclear ordinance that AOE and are several times more powerful then anything performed on panel by pien
> 
> he goin die...against the armed forces really really hard



They don't have such thing. The Moab Has the radius of a bit more than hundred meters. By rough estimate Konoha was a kilometer radius. Also ST would push the missile back before it reaches Pein.  Unless it's a nuke, I can't see it hurting Pein. Also if I remember ICBMs travel at circa Mach 10. Perhaps it doesn't matter since military is banned from this fight and even if Pein pushes the nuke away, if it detonates then GG for him.


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## Ky Hakubi (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> it's a good thing the military has access to non nuclear ordinance that AOE and are several times more powerful then anything performed on panel by pien
> 
> he goin die...against the armed forces really really hard



Keep in mind that the military isn't, and won't be, involved in this fight. Now if Jack Slater were here...


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> They don't have such thing. The Moab Has the radius of a bit more than hundred meters. By rough estimate Konoha was a kilometer radius. Also ST would push the missile back before it reaches Pein.  Unless it's a nuke, I can't see it hurting Pein. Also if I remember ICBMs travel at circa Mach 10. Perhaps it doesn't matter since military is banned from this fight and even if Pein pushes the nuke away, if it detonates then GG for him.



the idea of pein deflecting any missiles aside from bazookas..is utterly laughable

he'd get strafed by fighter jets...or blasted...or napalmed



Ky Hakubi said:


> Keep in mind that the military isn't, and won't be, involved in this fight. Now if Jack Slater were here...



oh I know its just...we've had narutoverse vs the US military before...and its a US or human mlitary rapestomo generally with a shit load of naruto wank...

and I was trying to avoid another one plus pika asked me about missile speeds and rockets...sos I answered

doesn't the lethal weapon crew work in LA? he's not beating Rigg's character shields

and Murtagh saying "I'm too old for this shit" followed by neck cocking is the equivalent of channeling the power of the LT....

no one escapes Danny glover jobber aura no one

except for a fucking puppet....(sasori = Glover kryptonite?)


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## willyvereb (Sep 30, 2010)

Why would it be? If he could dodge the supposedly(I don't know if it's true) Mach 3 Rasenshuriken, why he couldn't a missile from much greater range? Modern SA missiles move at Mach 4 or 5. And they leave behind obvious signs. _If_ Pein can move at Mach 1, he could evade the missiles with great ease. He isn't a fighter jet, does not leave serious heat signature behind and has hefty of cover.
ICBMs are the same since they are huge and come from the stratosphere to strike. He has great abdunance of time to evade it. Also you forget that the primary attribute of ST is repulsing and attracting. When used the cityblock buster ST gives him city-block level of durability of sorts. Non-nuclear missiles can't touch him unless they release it in huge volleys. Especially if somehow Pein can repulse the missiles without blowing them off.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> Why would it be? If he could dodge the supposedly(I don't know if it's true) Mach 3 Rasenshuriken, why he couldn't a missile from much greater range? Modern SA missiles move at Mach 4 or 5. And they leave behind obvious signs. _If_ Pein can move at Mach 1, he could evade the missiles with great ease. He isn't a fighter jet, does not leave serious heat signature behind and has hefty of cover.
> ICBMs are the same since they are huge and come from the stratosphere to strike. He has great abdunance of time to evade it. Also you forget that the primary attribute of ST is repulsing and attracting. When used the cityblock buster ST gives him city-block level of durability of sorts. Non-nuclear missiles can't touch him unless they release it in huge volleys. Especially if somehow Pein can repulse the missiles without blowing them off.



1, piens not dodging a mass of missiles flying at him...he's not reacting to fighter jets aside from that one nebulous calc...he lacks actual speed feats from what I recall of the battle

2, he's patently inferior to modern top of the line military might

3, why would he able to evade missiles with ease? if he sees the dust trail on a missile five times faster then him he's already fucked...and your under selling the speed and amount that can be hurled at him 

4, non nuclear missiles can't touch him? bullshit...bullshit

5, repulsing them? hell fuck no...


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## willyvereb (Sep 30, 2010)

Opposing the blast with ...well another "blast"(ST). Like lightning attacks and else, explosions can be also repulsed by ST. Also I mentioned that _if Pein can really move at Mach 1_ then he can laugh at missiles coming from hundreds of meters the same way as the sniper rifles. Not to mention missiles have the same problem as snipers, locking on Pein. Unless you bombard everything in a constant volley or have a lucky shot, Pein would survive it. And why he can't repel a missile? ST blasted rocks and buildings apart with ease. Repulsing the missiles would be the same, although considering their momentum, I doubt he could send them away without making them explode.


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## Reborns Allmark (Sep 30, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> Opposing the blast with ...well another "blast"(ST). Like lightning attacks and else, explosions can be also repulsed by ST. Also I mentioned that _if Pein can really move at Mach 1_ then he can laugh at missiles coming from hundreds of meters the same way as the sniper rifles. Not to mention missiles have the same problem as snipers, locking on Pein. Unless you bombard everything in a constant volley or have a lucky shot, Pein would survive it.



BTW, I think Russia is the only nation that has that kind of weapon, the weapon that could fire volleys of missiles. They called the weapon "_Tornado_".

Or Macross.



> And why he can't repel a missile? ST blasted rocks and buildings apart with ease. Repulsing the missiles would be the same, although considering their momentum, I doubt he could send them away without making them explode.



Or Tendo could just repel the explosion itself. Seems simple enough.


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## Masa (Sep 30, 2010)

Targeting would be impossible.  There's no way they could lock a missile on to Pein, especially with a whole metropolis for cover.  The best chance the military would have short of nukes is napalm or carpet bombing over a huge area.  Even then, if he sees the jets or bombers coming and knows what they can do, he will be out of the area before they can do any damage.  If he just stands there like an idiot, well yea, then he might lose.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

Reborns Allmark said:


> BTW, I think Russia is the only nation that has that kind of weapon, the weapon that could fire volleys of missiles. They called the weapon "_Tornado_".
> 
> Or Macross.



the US has the same shit...ground and sky based

macross missile massacre is something the US is pretty good at

viet nam..tokyo..berlin

any ways none of this is relevent the idea that he's dodging heavy munitions is absolute fanwank



Reborns Allmark said:


> Or Tendo could just repel the explosion itself. Seems simple enough.



is that before or after he turns into paste?



Masa said:


> Targeting would be impossible.  There's no way they could lock a missile on to Pein, especially with a whole metropolis for cover.  The best chance the military would have short of nukes is napalm or carpet bombing over a huge area.  Even then, if he sees the jets or bombers coming and knows what they can do, he will be out of the area before they can do any damage.  If he just stands there like an idiot, well yea, then he might lose.



pein vs the us military....and people are arguing he wins

fucking wow...


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## Ky Hakubi (Sep 30, 2010)

Regardless, if Pein is up against the military (and especially if bloodlusted as collateral damage is non-issue to that mentality), then Pein is screwed.

And Murtaugh... "No way you live man, no way." *neck crack, aim, pull trigger* GG Pein


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## Nikushimi (Sep 30, 2010)

Assuming any US military base is willing to just summarily bombard LA with missiles...why exactly couldn't Pain just Shinra Tensei/Banshou Tenin them away, again? Unless he ends up detonating them in the process of redirecting them, I don't see them posing much of a threat. I guess they could be detonated near Pain yet outside of his techniques' effective range...but the problem is, Pain Tendou can tank some pretty heavy damage. Rokubi Naruto's Imari impacted only a few hundred meters from Tendou's location and all he had to show for it was a singed Akatsuki cloak.

Furthermore, how long would it take to get such firepower in the air, let alone to the targeted location?


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## RikodouGai (Sep 30, 2010)

Nikushimi said:


> Assuming any US military base is willing to just summarily bombard LA with missiles...why exactly couldn't Pain just Shinra Tensei/Banshou Tenin them away, again? Unless he ends up detonating them in the process of redirecting them, I don't see them posing much of a threat. I guess they could be detonated near Pain yet outside of his techniques' effective range...but the problem is, Pain Tendou can tank some pretty heavy damage. Rokubi Naruto's Imari impacted only a few hundred meters from Tendou's location and all he had to show for it was a singed Akatsuki cloak.
> 
> Furthermore, how long would it take to get such firepower in the air, let alone to the targeted location?


The military is banned in this match. It's purely just L.A. vs Pain.

The fact that he can use stealth makes this easy for him. All he has to do is hide, prepare CT, send it into the sky and let it do it's thing while he gets away from its range. He just does this several times over the span of 1-2 weeks, and L.A. would just be a giant pile of rocks.


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## Mist Beauty (Sep 30, 2010)

I have a friend in UCLA who reads Naruto. She will realize what's going on pretty soon, and the cops and aggressive townspeople + gangs will have full knowledge on Deva Realm. A few well positioned snipers should be able to take this, which search parties with dogs roam the streets.


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## Kael Hyun (Sep 30, 2010)

Mist Beauty said:


> I have a friend in UCLA who reads Naruto. She will realize what's going on pretty soon, and the cops and aggressive townspeople + gangs will have full knowledge on Deva Realm. A few well positioned snipers should be able to take this, which search parties with dogs roam the streets.



Good but here's the problem first times a stelth run (atleast at first she wouldnt know whats going on till just before she and her home was stomped. second time the the snipers still need to try and keep up with Pain and even then remember people if Deva gets in trouble the rest of the paths get to come out and play


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

the military thing was hypothetical answer to some BS wank about pein being a threat to any decent modern army outside of..latin America

in LA theres what between eight and fourteen million people in LA? how many of those be armed? it's completely unrealistic to assume peins taking a blood lusted city that utterly dwarfs anything in his universe


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## Kael Hyun (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> the military thing was hypothetical answer to some BS wank about pein being a threat to any decent modern army outside of..latin America
> 
> in LA theres what between eight and fourteen million people in LA? how many of those be armed? it's completely unrealistic to assume peins taking a blood lusted city that utterly dwarfs anything in his universe



Yeah he's faceing a city that has hardly any idea of what he looks like but even if they did he has Transformation Jutsu so now they have even LESS of an idea of who he is.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Sep 30, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> Yeah he's faceing a city that has hardly any idea of what he looks like but even if they did he has Transformation Jutsu so now they have even LESS of an idea of who he is.



theres no way he can conceal himself for ever...modern tech should actually negate most henge...


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## willyvereb (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> theres no way he can conceal himself for ever...modern tech should actually negate most henge...


And how exactly? How would they even know he's transforming into some other object to hide? Police patrols does not use any such tech you are thinking of. Without knowing that Pein is masquerading himself as something else they wouldn't use anything like that. And even then the patrols are likely to get killed before they could call their mates.


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## pikachuwei (Sep 30, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> modern tech should actually negate most henge...


lol the fuck?

in the terminator verse the advanced humans had trouble detecting terminators who only have flesh on the outside and are robots on the inside

with henge jutsu pein's entire body turns into the person hes pretending to be

pein's disguising skills > terminators disguising skills > terminatorverse human detecting skills > our detecting skills (granted they are being hunted to extinction but they still had better tech)

we'd have more luck using dogs than tech to detect pein


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## willyvereb (Sep 30, 2010)

You can't use other fiction to prove this though. It can be even PIS. Anyways, we don't know the full details of Henge. Whether it's just an illusion or real and perfect transformation it's unknown.
For example IR gogles may detect some heat from Pein since normally ninjas can't detect slight differences like that. Who knows...anywys, police patrols and even less thugs wouldn't have those since they aren't standard and they don't know what are they dealing with.


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## hammer (Sep 30, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> lol the fuck?
> 
> in the terminator verse the advanced humans had trouble detecting terminators who only have flesh on the outside and are robots on the inside
> 
> ...



are you comparing fucking terminators who litteraly reform their cellular mass or some shit to pein who never showed he can henge when henge is jsut changing your outward appearence with no proof of a cellular or msucular change.


and yes I agree dogs will find him easily how many dogs are in LA again?


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## pikachuwei (Sep 30, 2010)

hammer said:


> are you comparing fucking terminators who litteraly reform their cellular mass or some shit to pein who never showed he can henge when henge is jsut changing your outward appearence with no proof of a cellular or msucular change.
> 
> 
> and yes I agree dogs will find him easily how many dogs are in LA again?



the arnold series was just bio-flesh attached to a metal exoskeleton. iirc when they first came out the humans didnt detect them 

actually im kinda confused now, isnt henge like when you change ur appearance right?

is chick naruto henge? he/she grows boobs so i guess thats muscular change.


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## hammer (Sep 30, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> the arnold series was just bio-flesh attached to a metal exoskeleton. iirc when they first came out the humans didnt detect them
> 
> actually im kinda confused now, isnt henge like when you change ur appearance right?
> 
> is chick naruto henge? he/she grows boobs so i guess thats muscular change.



thats still byond what henge is


just appearence

if pein turns to bob he dose not smell like bob bobs dog will smell pein and know its not him


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> thats still byond what henge is
> 
> 
> just appearence
> ...



how is turning from a guy to a girl < only having flesh on a exoskeleton?

anyways is henge an illusion or do the people actually undergo bodily changes? i mean, if the boobs are illusions then how can you touch them oO


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## lucky (Oct 1, 2010)

Los Angeles.  bullets >>>> pain's 5 second rule.


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## Reborns Allmark (Oct 1, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> how is turning from a guy to a girl < only having flesh on a exoskeleton?
> 
> anyways is henge an illusion or do the people actually undergo bodily changes? i mean, if the boobs are illusions then how can you touch them oO



http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=524987


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> how is turning from a guy to a girl < only having flesh on a exoskeleton?
> 
> anyways is henge an illusion or do the people actually undergo bodily changes? i mean, if the boobs are illusions then how can you touch them oO



if you henge into arnold swertinager you cant lift x amount of pounds you still can only lift what you orginally chould.


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## Ky Hakubi (Oct 1, 2010)

I wanna say henge is only illusion, but there was that instance when Naruto turned into a windmill shuriken for the attack against Zabuza. It had to have been an actual transformation for that to have worked, though I don't remember if it was Naruto himself or a kage bunshin, which could have changed things as bunshins aren't flesh and blood (though kage bunshin is solid, it's still not real).

Have there been any instances of ninja dogs sniffing through a henge? I wanna say Akamaru did something like that, but I can't say for sure. And even then, only the dogs trained for search teams are really going to matter, unles the animals in LA are bloodlusted too. 

If that's the case, then Pein has to contend with dive bombing pigeons.


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## willyvereb (Oct 1, 2010)

Reborns Allmark said:


> http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=524987



I just wanted to mention that scene, thank you.
As you can see here Naruto transforms Gamabuta into an imitation of Kyubi to grab the Shukaku. Henge does involve some kind of physical change but I guess it's not perfect. Otherwise we would have ninjas transforming part of their bodies into various weapons to kill instead of fancy jutsus. Perhaps it can be simply a plot-hole.


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## Roy (Oct 1, 2010)

Lakers win championship
the championship riot that ensues can take him


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## Kael Hyun (Oct 1, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> I just wanted to mention that scene, thank you.
> As you can see here Naruto transforms Gamabuta into an imitation of Kyubi to grab the Shukaku. Henge does involve some kind of physical change but I guess it's not perfect. Otherwise we would have ninjas transforming part of their bodies into various weapons to kill instead of fancy jutsus. Perhaps it can be simply a plot-hole.



No, its not a plot hole its just Naruto is creative when it comes to those kinds of things, really anything is possible with there Transformation. I mean Gamabunta talks as if what he wants Naruto to do (The transformation) is just common sense when he tells him to do a transformation with him.  

Really the ability's in the Narutoverse are underrated.


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## Ky Hakubi (Oct 1, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> Really the ability's in the Narutoverse are underrated.



It seems more a matter of being inconsistent. He turned himself into a shuriken, and Gamabunta into the form of Kyuubi... Why not just always turn yourself into something far more efficient at stalking or killing? Who needs a fist when you have the talons of a hawk? I don't see why it wouldn't work. It apparently doesn't have to be a transformation into something of equal mass or dimension. Why not transform into a cat to sneak around? It's just bad writing in my opinion. They have all these technological advancements, yet they still have iron age weapons. That's generally the first thing to be developed. We had firearms long before electricity, and not everyone in Naruto can use jutsu. Commoners should have developed more that crossbows by this point. It needs a more logical excuse that 'ninjas don't use guns, but wireless walkie talkies are okay'. The tech level is too unbalanced, and there's no reason for it. The clothes are from the Meiji era, the weapons from a hundred years before that, and the rest of the tech is from twenty years ago. For that matter, where's the internal combustion engine? Or the internet? I'm surprised Jiraiya isn't bopping to an MP3 player while doing his 'research'. And I'm getting WAY off topic now...

But do you see my point? It just seems that with every new chapter, Kishimoto writes himself into a deeper hole that he tries to fill with whatever he can pull out of his ass the next week. 

Henge can transform you, but no one ever uses it beyond a meager disguise.

Guns and cars don't exist, but electricity and harnessed radio waves do.

Lightning jutsu beats earth jutsu.

Naruto wants a friend so he ignores Hinata's declaration of love, and in fact it's never mentioned again as far as I know.

Sasuke is a waste of ink.

Naruto faps for Sasuke...

Danzo apparentluy has an arm made of wood that uses the cells of the first hokage or some shit like that, has several sharingan eyes embedded into said arm, and is able to use them to use a technique that IIRC Sasuke has no idea what the hell it is, even though Kakashi using his sharingan drains his chakra just by being open and looking around, and drains him dry with what, two uses of his mangekyou, and Danzo doesn't seem to break a sweat.

Personally, I think some of it is underrated, but a good bit of it is overrated too, because it makes no damn sense.

Back on topic, Pein wins because the next chapter is resurrecting Nagato and Deva path busts the moon with Spirit Gun.

At this point, I'd believe it.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2010)

atuyally ky they do have cars in naruto if OVAs are cannon which makes even less damn sense


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

Ky Hakubi said:


> It seems more a matter of being inconsistent. He turned himself into a shuriken, and Gamabunta into the form of Kyuubi... Why not just always turn yourself into something far more efficient at stalking or killing? Who needs a fist when you have the talons of a hawk? I don't see why it wouldn't work. It apparently doesn't have to be a transformation into something of equal mass or dimension. Why not transform into a cat to sneak around? It's just bad writing in my opinion. They have all these technological advancements, yet they still have iron age weapons. That's generally the first thing to be developed. We had firearms long before electricity, and not everyone in Naruto can use jutsu. Commoners should have developed more that crossbows by this point. It needs a more logical excuse that 'ninjas don't use guns, but wireless walkie talkies are okay'. The tech level is too unbalanced, and there's no reason for it. The clothes are from the Meiji era, the weapons from a hundred years before that, and the rest of the tech is from twenty years ago. For that matter, where's the internal combustion engine? Or the internet? I'm surprised Jiraiya isn't bopping to an MP3 player while doing his 'research'. And I'm getting WAY off topic now...



lol farmer with a gun


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> if you henge into arnold swertinager you cant lift x amount of pounds you still can only lift what you orginally chould.



but henge still gives u much of the physical attributes, as we just saw, when gama henge into QB he gained sharp fox teeth which he normaly doesnt have, when naruto changes into a chick, he gains boobs he normally doesnt have, etc.

id say it would be more than enough to get past modern checking systems.

LA not gonna stop every person in the street and confirm if they are a superhuman dead ninja corpse in disguise.


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## willyvereb (Oct 1, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> LA not gonna stop every person in the street and confirm if they are a superhuman dead ninja corpse in disguise.



Epic quote and great call. 

Sigged.


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## Kael Hyun (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> atuyally ky they do have cars in naruto if OVAs are cannon which makes even less damn sense



Kishi has been stated to say that Cars would work in the series but he just has no plans to use them.


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## kyrax12 (Oct 1, 2010)

MyNindoForever said:


> Kishi has been stated to say that Cars would work in the series but he just has no plans to use them.



Didn't they have like TVs to?


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 1, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> lol the fuck?
> 
> in the terminator verse the advanced humans had trouble detecting terminators who only have flesh on the outside and are robots on the inside
> 
> ...



...wait what the fuck does a james cameron movie universe have to do with the real world

my god biggest red herring i ever did see


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## Basilikos (Oct 1, 2010)

WTF 18 pages? 

Why isn't this thread locked already?


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## kyrax12 (Oct 1, 2010)

Basilikos said:


> WTF 18 pages?
> 
> Why isn't this thread locked already?



This is not a HST vs HST thread.


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## Masa (Oct 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> pein vs the us military....and people are arguing he wins
> 
> fucking wow...



Short of using nukes, the US military will lose as long as Pein isn't out in the open.  

If you think they can win without nukes, provide a scenario where they can win...


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## Basilikos (Oct 1, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> This is not a HST vs HST thread.


That isn't the reason I said that.


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## Herekic (Oct 1, 2010)

Pain with element of suprise stomps.


Star off with chibaku tensei, which takes out a big chunk of the city. he then proceeeds to drop that giant ball on some other huge part of the city, further wrecking it.


he can then pick off the survivors at his leisure. between shinra tensei and his movement speed, no normal humans are going to be hitting him with a gun.


people will no doubt talk about the "lol but he can only use it every 5 seconds". consider the following:

1: even while waiting for ST to come back, pain can still move normally. as a high level ninja, he should be able to EASILY move faster then normal people can see. dodging for a mere 5 seconds at a time will be a joke


2: after each ST shot, everyone around him will be dead. it's not like it just blocks everything, it blows everything away. it's not as if he will already be sorrounded after using an ST


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> ...wait what the fuck does a james cameron movie universe have to do with the real world
> 
> my god biggest red herring i ever did see



lol wut avatar guy made terminator?

anyway my point is there is enough proof about henge's capabilities that normal modern tech have no chance in hell of detecting pein if he henges.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2010)

classic assosiation fallcy


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> classic assosiation fallcy



i dont think anyone is gonna suspect a chick with boobs of being a male superhuman dead ninja corpse.

we dont even have proof our modern detection technologies can determine if a chick with boobs is a male superhuman dead ninja corpse

plus the male superhuman dead ninja corpse isnt gonna let us find out, he gonna wait for the testors to come close, gut them all with a black sword thingy and gap the hell out of thier with his superhuman speed. And then change into another chick.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2010)

I would assume cadaver dogs or any dogs for that matter can smell a dead person

again you cant compare a super robot machine from the future to naruto...


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## Satehi (Oct 1, 2010)

Does pain even show any signs of necrosis? I would assume the chakra keeps him from decaying too much.


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> I would assume cadaver dogs or any dogs for that matter can smell a dead person
> 
> again you cant compare a super robot machine from the future to naruto...



im not comparing anymore.
It is highly possible that the dogs can tell that pein isnt a real human but hey dogs bark at me all the time and people dont assume im a male superhuman dead ninja corpse in disguise

from what we have seen of henge it allows you to take on the physical attributes of another being (boobs, claws, teeth, etc). I highly doubt a spot check would detect someone in henge, u'd need a full blown autopsy or sumthing and i highly doubt pein would allow that.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Oct 1, 2010)

Herekic said:


> Pain with element of suprise stomps.
> 
> 
> Star off with chibaku tensei, which takes out a big chunk of the city. he then proceeeds to drop that giant ball on some other huge part of the city, further wrecking it.



Can Pain even move something that big? Where in the Manga did Pain do that


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> Can Pain even move something that big? Where in the Manga did Pain do that



all he has to do is drop CT 

if he can make it he can roll it.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Oct 1, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> all he has to do is drop CT
> 
> if he can make it he can roll it.



Pain is not going to move that thing. When starting CT he only has to throw away aLITTLE bnlack vortex pseudo blackhjole of some kind.


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## pikachuwei (Oct 1, 2010)

Kirihara said:


> Pain is not going to move that thing. When starting CT he only has to throw away aLITTLE bnlack vortex pseudo blackhjole of some kind.



he has to hold CT together, at least until capture. It is entirely possible for pein to roll that thing with a ST (it would be easiest for him to find a slope and then just roll it down )


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## Masa (Oct 1, 2010)

hammer said:


> I would assume cadaver dogs or any dogs for that matter can smell a dead person
> 
> again you cant compare a super robot machine from the future to naruto...



How are they gonna know to sick cadaver dogs on him?  and if they do, by chance detect him, what are they gonna do when he just goes somewhere else with his super human speed?  Its not like the dogs can detect him without being noticed by Pein first.


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## hammer (Oct 1, 2010)

i diddnt say they wi lsick them at him im saying a dog would notice a dead man walking wouldnt they?


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## Masa (Oct 2, 2010)

hammer said:


> i diddnt say they wi lsick them at him im saying a dog would notice a dead man walking wouldnt they?



They probably would, but their handlers wouldn't know why their dogs are barking at him and they couldn't do anything to him even if they did, so the point is moot.


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

hammer said:


> i diddnt say they wi lsick them at him im saying a dog would notice a dead man walking wouldnt they?



if pein is in henge we dont know if the dogs can detect him, and even so if he is in henge how would the handlers know that pein is the enemy?

how many times has a dog barked at you and their owner accused you of being a dead person in disguise?


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## hammer (Oct 2, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> if pein is in henge we dont know if the dogs can detect him, and even so if he is in henge how would the handlers know that pein is the enemy?
> 
> how many times has a dog barked at you and their owner accused you of being a dead person in disguise?



if theres no proff for or agenst we cant say WE DONT KNOW SO WE CANT SAY in somthing like this theres no proof he can change his scent so he cant

i diddnt say a mutt i said CADAVER dogs dogs TRAINED to bark if they find a dead body trained to not do stupid shit like bark at anyone if 4 cadaver dogs all line up art one guy somthing is up


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## Ky Hakubi (Oct 2, 2010)

Given that Pein is moving around, unless he happens by the cadaver dog kennel, they're likely non-issue. Nagato looks more like a corpse than any of the Pein bodies. 

Unless henge changes scent as well, then canine units will likely be able to find him, but otherwise I see no other way to. As mentioned above, that will also likely end with the dog handlers being disembowled, and Pein either blitzing away to a different location for a new henge, or using kawarimi and making people wonder how a mailbox killed everything in a ten foot radius.


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## Masa (Oct 2, 2010)

Ky Hakubi said:


> Given that Pein is moving around, unless he happens by the cadaver dog kennel, they're likely non-issue. Nagato looks more like a corpse than any of the Pein bodies.
> 
> Unless henge changes scent as well, then canine units will likely be able to find him, but otherwise I see no other way to. As mentioned above, that will also likely end with the dog handlers being disembowled, and Pein either blitzing away to a different location for a new henge, or using kawarimi and making people wonder how a mailbox killed everything in a ten foot radius.



Exactly what I was thinking.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

Masa said:


> Short of using nukes, the US military will lose as long as Pein isn't out in the open.
> 
> If you think they can win without nukes, provide a scenario where they can win...



he can't react to their missiles..or heavy artilery....only fanwank has been submitted to the contrary

they can handle him just fine..



pikachuwei said:


> lol wut avatar guy made terminator?
> 
> anyway my point is there is enough proof about henge's capabilities that normal modern tech have no chance in hell of detecting pein if he henges.



yes he did..

and no there isn't using fucking James "I must shove my political biased down every ones throat with a movie about gigantic blue ewoks and forget my own message half way through the movie and spontaneously  change it" Camerons masterpiece that is the terminator series  as a reasoning for why we would not detect him is.. silly

it has no basis in the real world and no basis to be used as a comparison man you know that! dude you can do better than that


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## Satehi (Oct 2, 2010)

kyrax12 said:


> This is only Los Angeles therefore *the military*, or any outside party is not allow.



Read bold.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

Satehi said:


> Read bold.



no shit sherlock

there was hypothetical talk involved


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## Masa (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he can't react to their missiles..or heavy artilery....only fanwank has been submitted to the contrary
> 
> they can handle him just fine..



Missiles are controlled by humans->humans can't react to Pein->humans can't target Pein->Missiles can't hit Pein.  

Heavy artillery goes the same way.


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## Ky Hakubi (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he can't react to their missiles..or heavy artilery....only fanwank has been submitted to the contrary
> 
> it has no basis in the real world and no basis to be used as a comparison man you know that! dude you can do better than that



He could easily react to a lot of the missles. While I don't believe the massive speed people attribute to even half of the characters in Naruto, it's easily believed that they're still hella fast.



Masa said:


> Missiles are controlled by humans->humans can't react to Pein->humans can't target Pein->Missiles can't hit Pein.
> 
> Heavy artillery goes the same way.




Last I checked, missles these days are mostly computer guided, and computer targeting>>>Pein. However, there's still the actual speed and maneuverability of the missile itself to take into account, which likely isn't enough regardless. I've yet to hear about a missile that can turn on a dime. RPG's and bazooka's however, are directly aimed by their weilder, and as such apply to your stated logic.

But again, non of these hypothetical questions have any bearing on Pein taking a chunk out of LA. Why are we continuing to discuss them?


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> he can't react to their missiles..or heavy artilery....only fanwank has been submitted to the contrary
> 
> they can handle him just fine..
> 
> ...



im talking about how we alraedy have proof that henge gives you the physical attributes of the thing you are turning into (gama getting teeth that bite, naruto getting boobs that can be touched)

and im of the opinion that none of our on-the spot scanning technologies nowadays have the capability to detect pein in henge 

nothing about terminators in here


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

hammer said:


> if theres no proff for or agenst we cant say WE DONT KNOW SO WE CANT SAY in somthing like this theres no proof he can change his scent so he cant
> 
> i diddnt say a mutt i said CADAVER dogs dogs TRAINED to bark if they find a dead body trained to not do stupid shit like bark at anyone if 4 cadaver dogs all line up art one guy somthing is up



LA doesnt have knowledge. Even IF the cadaver dogs could detect him, if 4 cadaver dogs barked at a seemingly walking, talking, breathing human, would the handlers (even in bloodlust they have logic)

a) assume the person is a dead corpse that is moving
b) assume that the person is just really really unpopular with dogs.


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## willyvereb (Oct 2, 2010)

In bloodlust they choose the a.) answer and kill anyone in radius plus ensuring a mass-panic that results in a huge massacre from every side. It essentially lessens the workload of Pein ten-fold.
Henge+ bloodlust for LA= homicidal paranoia.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

Masa said:


> Missiles are controlled by humans->humans can't react to Pein->humans can't target Pein->Missiles can't hit Pein.
> 
> Heavy artillery goes the same way.



you have this problem where you keep posting bullshit

pein cannot react to missiles...he is not going to bullet time an MIAbraham shell its going to blast his candy ass into pieces

and he's not speed blitzing a napalm strike...or a few MOAB's or any of that other cool stuff



Ky Hakubi said:


> He could easily react to a lot of the missles. While I don't believe the massive speed people attribute to even half of the characters in Naruto, it's easily believed that they're still hella fast.



most of the really good missiles being much much faster then his on panel speed feats and being delivered by fighter jets several times faster then peins on panel speed feats no not really



pikachuwei said:


> im talking about how we alraedy have proof that henge gives you the physical attributes of the thing you are turning into (gama getting teeth that bite, naruto getting boobs that can be touched)]



why would it spontenously change your body heat or smell..what proof do you have that it does?

when they see a mail box or a tree giving off as much heat as we've seen from people who over use chakra...


pikachuwei said:


> i
> and im of the opinion that none of our on-the spot scanning technologies nowadays have the capability to detect pein in henge
> 
> nothing about terminators in here



we detect him fine and entire neighborhoods of hundreds of thousands of people start shooting at him

terminators where there, your strawmanery



willyvereb said:


> In bloodlust they choose the a.) answer and kill anyone in radius plus ensuring a mass-panic that results in a huge massacre from every side. It essentially lessens the workload of Pein ten-fold.
> Henge+ bloodlust for LA= homicidal paranoia.



thats not how blood lust works

blood lust is the entire city of millions of people...utterly dedicated to peins death no matter the cost or loss of life using every and all means at their disposal

no panic..no running no paranoia

thats blood lust in a vs match

assuming Nagato does not die of exposure first (and yes he would be here for the match it supremely retarded to assume he's controlling his shit from a universe away the six paths are standard equip for him the man has to be there if the tools are too)


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> why would it spontenously change your body heat or smell..what proof do you have that it does?



It changes your physical looks and body structure. That alone is enough to fool humans. if normal dogs start barking the humans will assume that the dogs just really hate pein. If for some reason the humans assume pein is the enemy, pein will just gut them and flee and turn into another human and rinse and repeat



> when they see a mail box or a tree giving off as much heat as we've seen from people who over use chakra...


why would pein want to be a mailbox/tree when he can just henge into another human 

and not everyone carries around a thermal detector equipment



> we detect him fine and entire neighborhoods of hundreds of thousands of people start shooting at him



sadly we are not a hivemind yet . You realize how much coordination it would take to get a HUNDRED people mobilized in an instant? Otherwise friendly fire is just helping pein. Besides pein will be able to gut whoever detected him and gap the hell out of the area before most of the troops arrive.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> It changes your physical looks and body structure. That alone is enough to fool humans. if normal dogs start barking the humans will assume that the dogs just really hate pein. If for some reason the humans assume pein is the enemy, pein will just gut them and flee and turn into another human and rinse and repeat]



bullshit and we've seen henge get sniffed out before and a dude walking around who smells like a dead body is gonna cause peoples heads to turn when cadaver or police dogs start yipping away at the fuck (drugs or hey hows da dead man moving)



pikachuwei said:


> why would pein want to be a mailbox/tree when he can just henge into another human



you have any idea how badly a corpse stinks? one thats being animated by chakra should not be exempt from the rules





pikachuwei said:


> and not everyone carries around a thermal detector equipment



cop choppers do




pikachuwei said:


> sadly we are not a hivemind yet . You realize how much coordination it would take to get a HUNDRED people mobilized in an instant? Otherwise friendly fire is just helping pein. Besides pein will be able to gut whoever detected him and gap the hell out of the area before most of the troops arrive.



its blood lust...the cities gonna be dedicated to his death using every and all means at their disposal to do..it

yeah their gonna be coordinated..their only goal is "he dies no matter how many of us do"


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> bullshit and we've seen henge get sniffed out before and a dude walking around who smells like a dead body is gonna cause peoples heads to turn when cadaver or police dogs start yipping away at the fuck (drugs or hey hows da dead man moving)
> 
> 
> 
> you have any idea how badly a corpse stinks? one thats being animated by chakra should not be exempt from the rules



theres no mention of pein's bodies smelling bad. If anything they are very well preserved (considering how long yahiko has been dead, his body hasnt rotted and fallen apart yet.)

And even if the dogs smell him, it doesnt really correlate to the handlers thinking OMG THATS THE ENEMY!. As i said before LA has no knowledge that their enemy is a dead superhuman ninja corpse who can change his physical features. And if pein IS detected, He just guts the handlers with his superhuman speed and runs away before help arrives.



> cop choppers do


 dog handlers dont. The most effective way to detect pein would be dogs + thermal scanners (we dont have proof that pein's body is cold, with all the chakra running around inside it should be quite warm but for arguments sake ill go along with cold dead body). Cop choppers arent gonna go along and sweep everyone with a thermal scanner.



> its blood lust...the cities gonna be dedicated to his death using every and all means at their disposal to do..it
> 
> yeah their gonna be coordinated..their only goal is "he dies no matter how many of us do"



even with bloodlust on, their coordination is not perfect. As i said before, we are not a hivemind. If someone finds pein, everyone else is not gonna magically get a telepathic signal that HERE IS THE ENEMY AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE BLAHBLAHBLAH. The person who found pein still has to report back to Central command (assuming there is one) and Central command has to relay the information to everyone else. This takes time, and superhuman pein can easily 1) blitz the informant before he reports

2) in the unlikely event he fails to kill the informant in time, run away from the general area before the enemy arrives with his superhuman speed. (killing the informant for the lulz anyway)


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

pikachuwei said:


> theres no mention of pein's bodies smelling bad. If anything they are very well preserved (considering how long yahiko has been dead, his body hasnt rotted and fallen apart yet.)



because kishi is a retard....and a bad writer

also izanagi likely helps keep them together but alive they are not



pikachuwei said:


> And even if the dogs smell him, it doesnt really correlate to the handlers thinking OMG THATS THE ENEMY!. As i said before LA has no knowledge that their enemy is a dead superhuman ninja corpse who can change his physical features. And if pein IS detected, He just guts the handlers with his superhuman speed and runs away before help arrives.



they gonna find out right quick then yes yes it does



pikachuwei said:


> dog handlers dont. The most effective way to detect pein would be dogs + thermal scanners (we dont have proof that pein's body is cold, with all the chakra running around inside it should be quite warm but for arguments sake ill go along with cold dead body). Cop choppers arent gonna go along and sweep everyone with a thermal scanner.



I actually wasn't going for cold body...but hotter then normal given we've seen chakra heat people up so much that steam literally emanates from their bodies and then some..other nastier side affects 



pikachuwei said:


> even with bloodlust on, their coordination is not perfect. As i said before, we are not a hivemind. If someone finds pein, everyone else is not gonna magically get a telepathic signal that HERE IS THE ENEMY AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE BLAHBLAHBLAH. The person who found pein still has to report back to Central command (assuming there is one) and Central command has to relay the information to everyone else. This takes time, and superhuman pein can easily 1) blitz the informant before he reports



the entire cities gonna be out for his head man they wont be chilling inside watching tv and shit

they'll be out there the moment he gets discovered every gun own in la will be firing on his position...superspeed is not negating..million of bullets 



pikachuwei said:


> 2) in the unlikely event he fails to kill the informant in time, run away from the general area before the enemy arrives with his superhuman speed. (killing the informant for the lulz anyway)



or he gets an entire neighborhood of lead to the face or the entire neighborhood was a trap and a needed sacrifice .and when he makes smooshy every one else converges on his position


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## nadinkrah (Oct 2, 2010)

people still think la stands a chance huh. lol


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## willyvereb (Oct 2, 2010)

@TIW: Well, actually depending on person the Bloodlust may indeed cause paranoia in this case. Meaning:"I start to randomly kill everyone around me. Maybe one of those are that Pein guy." and perhaps it induces the reaction"OMG, Joe is killing everyone. Maybe he's Pein in disguise?" and when they realize that it wasn't Pein" Fred told us it's Pein. Maybe he's actually Pein in disguise! He's tryining to decieve us! Kill him now!" then "Ped told us...blah-blah-blah. Kill him!". It's just a matter of time and the panic-like random killings spread as the new plague. Everone is bloodlusted and they don't care about neither the collateral damage or the safety of others. Sooner or later, any kind of ridiculous excuse is enough for someone to get killed by the lynching crowd and there's no stop since no one has a common sense. Meanwhile Pein lesuirely camps somewhere, disguised as a lamp post.
Homicidal panic murder spree thanks to the messed up mind of the crowds and the bloodlust condition. GG LA.
You can wonder why people usually aren't bloodlusted.


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## pikachuwei (Oct 2, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> because kishi is a retard....and a bad writer
> 
> also izanagi likely helps keep them together but alive they are not
> 
> ...



I dont think pein uses izanagi :x

and pein hasnt shown signs of being smoking hot either

again you dont really get what i am saying. Even if the city is bloodlusted and everyone is patrolling, if pein gets discovered everyone will not suddenly know where he is. We are not a hivemind, we need to communicate with each other to know where pein is, and pein can easily kill whoever found him out before they tell others. Even if they do manage to tell others, its not like the entire city will be able to instantly teleport to that spot. pein can just run and switch disguises.

Think about it. You are reading this post right now. Does, say a friend of yours instantly know what this post is about? no. You have to tell him first via, say phone or IM. Same with LA. The person who found out that pein is the enemy has to be able to tell others first before he gets killed and that is unlikely considering its a base human vs a superhuman.


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## Satehi (Oct 2, 2010)

If they were fully prepared, they could have the message already written and press the button before they die and hope for GPS.

Still doesn't mean they can beat Pein.


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## Ky Hakubi (Oct 2, 2010)

Seriously Watchdog (and anyone supporting LA), think about it for a moment. Step outside your apartment or house, whatever you live in. Assume every one of your neighbors are outside patroling the streets looking for a man of a certain description, because I would have to assume that at some point Pein would be IDed in whatever disguise he was in, and for arguements sake, he's not changed his shit up yet. Let's say a man in a denim jacket, a Lakers hat, white t-shirt and baggy cargo jeans.

Assume you see said person. Do you have a walkie talkie or CB radio to alert every single person in a three mile area, let alone your entire neighbor hood? Or maybe a bullhorn?

Unlikely. You would most likely yell out. That's got a range of what, half a mile in good conditions maybe? I'm not sure how far sound carries, and it would be signifigantly less in a crowded and noisy city like LA.

Also, do you have a firearm in your posession or stashed in your basement or something? Or is there a local PD that can deploy and arm your neighbor hood with weapons?

So you've seen him and called for backup. How long do you survive? Pein may not be supersonic, but I'd be willing to bet that he's a damn sight faster than you or I. Can you dodge shuriken and kunai thrown at you at very high speeds? Or maybe a fireball, as I see no reason he can't use a katon, and can you raise your weapon, aim, and pull the trigger before he can aim-dodge and hurl said weapon at your face? Barring any personal collection, I would assume your firearm would be a pistol or shotgun if issued from the police. How's your aim? Would pein even have to aim-dodge?

If you actually stop to think about the scenario in a logical manner, there's really nothing a group of untrained, likely unarmed, people can do except die. If there are police patrolling around, maybe SWAT or something, then there's a better chance. Anyone have any idea what the ratio of police to civilians is in LA? I sure as shit have no gun in my home, any training to use one, or the speed to sound an alarm and fire said gun before I had a permanent neck based grin, and I fairly well represent the average American in terms of physical ability if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I'm under the impression that the police don't have access to a lot of the heavier artillery that's been discussed. Night vision goggles, maybe thermals... but how many sets of thermal sensors does the LAPD even have?

How can you honestly argue that if one person discovers Pein, then the entire neighbor hood is automatically going to home in on his location? There might be a few handfuls of people that will see whats going on in time to react to the sounder's demise, but Pein has several methods of escape within his grasp. Who is to say that a bullet would even do more than superficial damage since he's already a corpse?

If you can bring a logical reason why Pein would lose, I'll support you all they way, but barring the possibility of disease taking down Nagato, there's really been nothing else posted that gives Pein the ass kicking he needs.


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## The Immortal WatchDog (Oct 2, 2010)

willyvereb said:


> @TIW: Well, actually depending on person the Bloodlust may indeed cause paranoia in this case. Meaning:"I start to randomly kill everyone around me. Maybe one of those are that Pein guy." and perhaps it induces the reaction"OMG, Joe is killing everyone. Maybe he's Pein in disguise?" and when they realize that it wasn't Pein" Fred told us it's Pein. Maybe he's actually Pein in disguise! He's tryining to decieve us! Kill him now!" then "Ped told us...blah-blah-blah. Kill him!". It's just a matter of time and the panic-like random killings spread as the new plague. Everone is bloodlusted and they don't care about neither the collateral damage or the safety of others. Sooner or later, any kind of ridiculous excuse is enough for someone to get killed by the lynching crowd and there's no stop since no one has a common sense. Meanwhile Pein lesuirely camps somewhere, disguised as a lamp post.
> Homicidal panic murder spree thanks to the messed up mind of the crowds and the bloodlust condition. GG LA.
> You can wonder why people usually aren't bloodlusted.



true on all counts about real world blood lust

vs match blood lust is an entirely different thing and something unnatural impressed upon the combatant by law of the vs its an entirely separate thing


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## hammer (Oct 2, 2010)

Ky Hakubi said:


> Seriously Watchdog (and anyone supporting LA), think about it for a moment. *Step outside your apartment or house, whatever you live in.* Assume every one of your neighbors are outside patroling the streets looking for a man of a certain description, because I would have to assume that at some point Pein would be IDed in whatever disguise he was in, and for arguements sake, he's not changed his shit up yet. Let's say a man in a denim jacket, a Lakers hat, white t-shirt and baggy cargo jeans..



I live in china imagine how many people are in china and despite the so called racisem of china apparently everyone loves anime/manga so we all would have knowlege of pein  and we also have a japaness teacher on campus so yea we would spot him.


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## Wolfgang Grimmer (Oct 2, 2010)

Is pein bloodlusted too?


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## Masa (Oct 3, 2010)

The Immortal WatchDog said:


> you have this problem where you keep posting bullshit
> 
> pein cannot react to missiles...he is not going to bullet time an MIAbraham shell its going to blast his candy ass into pieces



You have this problem where you can't grasp how difficult it is to hit a moving target.  Here's an example; stand up straight, now get a small caliber pistol, now try to shoot an ant that's on the ground below you.  You can't, in fact, you can't hit it no matter how many times you try despite the ant not being able to react to a bullet.  Why?  Because you don't have necessary reflexes to aim at an accuracy required to hit the ant.  Now imagine this ant is moving at close to or above the speed of sound and constantly changing direction...



> and he's not speed blitzing a napalm strike...or a few MOAB's or any of that other cool stuff


Considering I said that their best chance is napalm or carpet bombing, I'll take that as a compliment, but its still not a win.  Its only a win if Pein doesn't know to avoid them.  If he does, he will be able to avoid any napalm or bombing thrown at him.  Why?  Because planes have to come in at a low altitude and a low speed to administer a bombing or napalm, slow enough for Pein to see coming and react to.  In fact, probably slow enough so that he can actually out run the bombing considering they fall with gravity as opposed to having thrust like a missile.





> most of the really good missiles being much much faster then his on panel speed feats and being delivered by fighter jets several times faster then peins on panel speed feats no not really


It doesn't matter how fast the missiles are, if you had a laser gun and Pein had a kunai, who would win in a fight?  You always have to take into account that humans are firing these weapons...




> why would it spontenously change your body heat or smell..what proof do you have that it does?
> 
> when they see a mail box or a tree giving off as much heat as we've seen from people who over use chakra...
> 
> ...



and how will these people know that Pein has been detected?  I'm guessing you just assumed that everyone in LA has a CB radio connected to the same channel and that if someone says "Pein is here" they automatically know where he is and where to shoot.  You probably also assumed that everyone in LA can just instantly teleport to where Pein is and shoot at him, am I right?



> blood lust is the entire city of millions of people...utterly dedicated to peins death no matter the cost or loss of life using every and all means at their disposal
> 
> no panic..no running no paranoia
> 
> ...



Actually, considering Nagato is generally isolated in a hidden area when controlling Pein, he is unlikely to catch a disease.  Pein on the other hand, being a dead body and all, is probably full of diseases that would be harmful to the people of LA and that they have no defense to.  Hey the disease argument works the other way too!  everyone in LA dies of Naruto AIDS, even if Pein gets beaten, Nagato wins because he out lasts everyone.


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