# MF Garp vs DFless Whitebeard



## Magician (Oct 24, 2014)

This is beginning of the war Whitebeard without heart problems.

Who wins and what difficulty?


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## Luke (Oct 24, 2014)

Whitebeard wins with extreme difficulty.


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## Gohara (Oct 24, 2014)

Whitebeard wins with mid to high (closer to high than mid) difficulty.


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## Masvindu (Oct 24, 2014)

Garp wins mid to high diff. Wb has no DF fruit, and is fighting the man who is/was likely the worlds strongest brawler......

If Garp really was nearly as strong as Roger, and fought with him in his prime fairly evenly, then I cannot see in any way how a severely nerfed WB could beat him.

Garp likely had stronger CoA and stronger hand to hand skills, and was probably stronger or equal to WB's physical strength.

That's my opinion at least.


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## JoJo (Oct 24, 2014)

WB's great offensive capabilities come from his expertise with the Gura Gura no Mi, something he's probably had for years. Removing that from him severely nerfs him. With Garp, his abilities and powers remain untouched. So I'd give this fight to Garp. Not sure on the difficulty, but maybe on the lower end of high since WB should still be a formidable and strong adversary.


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## Ruse (Oct 24, 2014)

Garp wins not sure what diff though.


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## Extravlad (Oct 24, 2014)

Wether or not WB has a heart attack will decide the outcome of this fight.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 24, 2014)

Whitebeard does not have the slightest chance to beat Garp without his DF WSM or not. Not sure of the diff tbh.


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## Nox (Oct 24, 2014)

Garp. Low Mid Diificulty.


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 24, 2014)

Garp very diff. Don't underestimate Whitebeard's stats people


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## Luke (Oct 24, 2014)

Very diff, such extreme


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## Goomoonryong (Oct 24, 2014)

Garp wins high diff.


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## Freechoice (Oct 24, 2014)

DF less WB loses. The difference between them with DF probably wasn't that big in the first place.

Unsure about the difficulty though.


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## trance (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp wins. Whitebeard is a monster, yes but Garp is one of the physically strongest characters to date, with enough speed to seemingly blitz Marco and immense mastery of CoA. It won't be a stomp but Garp should win no doubt.


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## Amol (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp wins Mid(high) diff .
Brawling is Garp's forte. While WB is no slouch in physical fight, he is a major DF user.
WB can not win against Garp's primary fighting style with his own secondary fighting style.


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## Canute87 (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp takes this high difficutly.

WB's normal punches will most certainly lose out against Garp.


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## Kaiser (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp high difficulty


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## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp Low difficulty. You are basically cutting down WB's whole arsenal.There wasn't much difference in them to  begin with & nerfing WB like this just makes it a one sided fight.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp smash.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp is so fucking overrated.

Can't wait until Akainu magmafist this old geezer.


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## Monster (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Garp is so fucking overrated.
> 
> Can't wait until Akainu magmafist this old geezer.



He is not that overrated and why would Akainu kill him?


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Garp is so fucking overrated.
> 
> Can't wait until Akainu magmafist this old geezer.



Blasphemy. Get that shit out of here.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Garp is so fucking overrated.
> 
> Can't wait until Akainu magmafist this old geezer.


Nay, it's the opposite, he's terribly underrated.
And would you care to explain how Whitebeard is winning this? Because he isn't, whether you like it or not.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

> Nay, it's the opposite, he's terribly underrated.


Yea sure the guy who couldn't surpass an ill Whitebeard is underrated despite people like you ranking him in the same tier as Roger.



> And would you care to explain how Whitebeard is winning this? Because he isn't, whether you like it or not.


Whitebeard's stats are just as good as Garp's.



> He is not that overrated and why would Akainu kill him?


Because he is a traitor and don't do his job correctly.
It would be logic for Akainu to kill a guy who eat lunch with the RA leader.


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## Beckman (Oct 25, 2014)

Whitebeard isn't so far ahead that he could lose one of the strongest fruits and still come out on top. Garp would win 10/10 times, not sure about the diff.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

Lol at people who actually think Garp has better stats than Whitebeard.

Whitebeard is still more durable and has a much higher stamina.

Physical strength they should be dead even, WB has a weapon though and it's been proven countless times that Swords > Fists.


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## blueframe01 (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp wins. As strong as WB is, you cant simply underate the amount of offensive power a quake fruit gives to its user. It's called the most destructive fruit for a reason. Losing that would definitely lower WB's attack considerably. and considering he's up against quite possibly the only one who could take him on his prime days with his bare fist, i cant see WB winning this.


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## Freechoice (Oct 25, 2014)

blueframe01 said:


> Garp wins. As strong as WB is, you cant simply underate the amount of offensive power a quake fruit gives to its user. It's called the most destructive fruit for a reason. Losing that would definitely lower WB's attack considerably. and considering he's up against quite possibly the only one who could take him on his prime days with his bare fist, i cant see WB winning this.


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## Sherlōck (Oct 25, 2014)

You don't debate with Extravlad about Garp & Zoro. You just don't.

 Its a fools errand.


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## Firo (Oct 25, 2014)

Dont like these kind of threads......
But, Garp takes it.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

Prime Whitebeard > Old Whitebeard > Prime Garp.

Deal with it ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".).


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## Firo (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad acting like people care what he says.


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## trance (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Physical strength they should be dead even, WB has a weapon though and it's been proven countless times that Swords > Fists.



He doesn't wield a sword, though. Get the fuck out of here.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

> He doesn't wield a sword, though. Get the fuck out of here.


A Bisento is a sword.


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## trance (Oct 25, 2014)

A bisento is not a sword. Are you blind?


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

@ Masvindu.

My apologies.  I forgot that this is old Whitebeard without a Devil Fruit.  In that case I would say it could go either way, but if I had to choose I would lean towards old Garp winning with extremely high difficulty.


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## Extravlad (Oct 25, 2014)

> A bisento is not a sword. Are you blind?


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## Amol (Oct 25, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> A Bisento is a sword.



So Mihawk > WB ,right ?


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

I don't necessarily agree that, in One Piece, a sword > a fist in all cases- but vlad is right when he says that a Bisento can be considered a sword.  It's not just wikipedia that says that.  You can find multiple books about sword play and accounts from experts who agree that a Bisento can be called a sword.


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## Datassassin (Oct 25, 2014)

Garp with high difficulty, usually the removal of a DF would really screw an OP combatant over but WB should still be very skilled with his bisento.

And a bisento is obviously a fucking staff-based weapon >___>.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

The terms sword and staff aren't exclusive.  There are swordstaffs.


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## Datassassin (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm saying that one looks ridiculous calling a weapon that has a _large staff_ a sword, a weapon someone trained only in some normal swordplay would _not_ be able to properly use whereas someone trained in staff-weapons like a bo/spear/guandao would be solidly more able to.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

Normal swordplay is too broad of a description.  That may apply depending on the specific sword martial arts in question, but the point here is that a Bisento can be and has been called a sword.  So while I don't necessarily agree with vlad that wielding a sword automatically makes you more powerful than someone who fights bare handed, he is not incorrect to call a Bisento a sword.


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## Datassassin (Oct 25, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Normal swordplay is too broad of a description.  That may apply depending on the specific sword martial arts in question, *but the point here is that a Bisento can be and has been called a sword*.  So while I don't necessarily agree with vlad that wielding a sword automatically makes you more powerful than someone who fights bare handed, he is not incorrect to call a Bisento a sword.


People mislabel things all the time. Many people don't recognize a tomato as a fruit. If one is using some flimsy, broad definition of what constitutes a 'sword' then I suppose sure, but then you have World's Strongest Man being also World's Strongest Swordsman by default, in contradiction to what the author himself clearly sees his characters being.


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

Indeed, but I'm not referring to fans here.  I'm referring to books and experts.

I view Mihawk's title as only including people who almost entirely only use a sword.  Plus, I think it's meant to be in regards to the most skilled swordsman.  Not necessarily the strongest character that wields a sword.


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## Datassassin (Oct 25, 2014)

Gohara said:


> Indeed, but I'm not referring to fans here.  I'm referring to *books and experts*.


Personally never seen a dojo owner or weapons specialist or even people who just teach martial arts for a living refer to a bisento or similar tools as a 'sword' but meh.



Gohara said:


> I view Mihawk's title as only including people who almost entirely only use a sword.  Plus,* I think it's meant to be in regards to the most skilled swordsman*.  Not necessarily the strongest character that wields a sword.


His title has the word 'strongest' in it, not 'skilled' though. WB = sekai saikyo no otoko, Mihawk =  sekai saikyo no kenshi. In the most reputable translations it most certainly is 'strongest'. You point blank have an inconstancy if you have a Strongest Swordsman and a Strongest Man (whose also a Swordsman).


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Oct 25, 2014)

A bisento is a sword? Damn Oda been fooling us all this time. Mihawk confirmed 4 WSM +WSS:


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## Gohara (Oct 25, 2014)

@ Dat.

1. You haven't seen one that hasn't refused that a Bisento could be called a sword, or you simply haven't openly see one state that Bisento could be called one?  The latter would be somewhat surprising, but I can see that being the case.

2. By Oda's terms, you have kingly potential not only when you want to be the strongest in general, but even when you just have high aspirations for your field.  Garp has said that the Yonkou are the 4 strongest pirates in the world.  We already know of at least two Yonkou who use swords (in some way or another).


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

What? Garp isn't overrated. 
He's the only marine who put Marco in place at Marineford. Plus, Oda portrayed him as someone capable of clobbering Akainu.

Without his fruit, Whitebeard would get beaten quite decisively. Mid-diff win for Garp


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> Without his fruit, Whitebeard would get beaten quite decisively. Mid-diff win for Garp


Yea sure, Garp would mid diff the guy that died standing after taking 152 bullet shots, 46 cannonballs and 267 sword wounds.

Oh yea let's not forget he also faced the C3, one after the other and got half of his face 
burned.

But sure Garp would mid diff this guy, after all the Gura Gura no mi is clearly the reason why WB has a such durability.

/s


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Garp hits far harder than fodder strikes, especially when they're imbued with his willpower. You also have to factor in that a majority of Whitebeard's offensive power has been taken way; his only method of defense is tanking attacks with the body itself (no regen or proper defense); he's slower and probably weaker than Garp in the physical department, who happens to excel in that field; and he's not in prime form, thus not WSM by any means.  

Whitebeard will likely feel Garp's fist just as much as Akainu's magma, considering the former has greater willpower and has the feats of casually putting down WB's greatest subordinate. 

If you think Whitebeard is capable of defeating the strongest marine without a great portion of his power, you overestimate him too much. They're from the same era and fought on par with Roger himself; there was never a huge difference in power between them.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> If you think Whitebeard is capable of defeating the strongest marine without a great portion of his power, you overestimate him too much. They're from the same era and fought on par with Roger himself; there was never a huge difference in power between them.


Here we go again, the same bullshit I don't know why everyone come up with this false statement but Garp was NOT on par with Roger/Prime WB.
Not only WB was said to be the ONLY man that was on Roger's lvl by one of Roger's crewmate Buggy, but also Garp as a healty old man couldn't even surpass an old and ill Newgate, who was weaker expected.
Garp is not mid diffing DFless WB.
Prime WB would beat Garp 100 times out of 100.

The gap between the likes of Akainu,Mihawk,Shanks and Prime Garp isn't bigger than the gap between Prime Garp and Roger/PrimeWB


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Here we go again, the same bullshit I don't know why everyone come up with this false statement but Garp was NOT on par with Roger/Prime WB.
> Not only WB was said to be the ONLY man that was on Roger's lvl by one of Roger's crewmate Buggy,



He was inferred to be a rival by Roger himself, who is apparently equal to Whitebeard in his prime.



> but also Garp as a healty old man couldn't even surpass an old and ill Newgate, who was weaker expected.



Because of plot. 
If Garp and Sengoku were to participate in the war, it would have turned the overall battle into a rape and/or forced Whitebeard to sink the island (killing himself).



> Garp is not mid diffing DFless WB.



Yes, he mid-diffs. Unless you can tell me how the guy competes with Garp in the physical department. He's slower and physically weaker; his Conqueror's Haki won't make any difference against someone of Garp's caliber; and Garp probably has superior Haki (in general), considering he is one of the only individuals who fought on par with Roger without a fruit.

Their physical abilities aren't comparable. Whitebeard's fruit is what closes the gap and makes him marginally superior.



> Prime WB would beat Garp 100 times out of 100.



We aren't talking about Prime Whitebeard; there no doubt that he'd defeat Old Garp. 



> The gap between the likes of Akainu,Mihawk,Shanks and Prime Garp isn't bigger than the gap between Prime Garp and Roger/PrimeWB



You place Akainu too high. 
He's not on the same level as Shanks/Mihawk, let alone Prime Garp of all people. And yes, the gap between legends in their prime and top tiers is quite noticeable. 

Roger looked at Garp as a rival; they cornered each other throughout life and hold titles with similar weight: pirate king and hero of the marines. Even if both Roger and Whitebeard are superior to Garp, they're very close together in overall power.


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## Nox (Oct 26, 2014)

The only way WB beats Garp is if his swordsmanship with a Bisento is on the same level as Mihawk / Rayleigh. Also don't use the excuse he clashed with Shanks equally as a gateway to put their skills with the sword (no homo) on the same level. 

Futhermore WB haki was portrayed to have diminished substantial to the point Squardo could stab him. This is the guy who was stopping Ace in his sleep before. Add his illness on top. Garp is almost on the same level as he is with the GGnM & can still use his haki/strength/heart fine.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 26, 2014)

DxM said:


> Add his illness on top.





Magician said:


> This is beginning of the war Whitebeard without heart problems.


This is healthy Whitebeard.


DxM said:


> The only way WB beats Garp is if his swordsmanship with a Bisento is on the same level as Mihawk / Rayleigh.


Considering Akainu stopped Whitebeard's bisento with one foot, there is no doubt in my mind Garp can do even better. Apart from durability, is there any other area Garp doesn't have the edge in?


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## Amol (Oct 26, 2014)

Chrollo Lucilfer said:


> A bisento is a sword? Damn Oda been fooling us all this time. Mihawk confirmed 4 WSM +WSS:



Of course Chrollo don't you know.
Extravlad just proved that WB used sword thus making him a swordsman.
Mihawk being WSS automatically becomes stronger than anyone who carries sword.
We just have to face it now.
Mihawk > WB
Mihawk was real WSM on MF.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Tea said:


> This is healthy Whitebeard.



No, it's the sick version of Whitebeard without injuries.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 26, 2014)

Amol said:


> Of course Chrollo don't you know.
> Extravlad just proved that WB used sword thus making him a swordsman.
> Mihawk being WSS automatically becomes stronger than anyone who carries sword.
> We just have to face it now.
> ...


Any ideas how they're going to fuse the two titles (WSM + WGS) together?


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## JoJo (Oct 26, 2014)

Tea said:


> This is healthy Whitebeard.
> 
> Considering Akainu stopped Whitebeard's bisento with one foot, there is no doubt in my mind Garp can do even better. Apart from durability, is there any other area Garp doesn't have the edge in?



The disparity in their durability probably won't even be _that_ large. I think it's safe to assume that Garp is far from a glass canon.


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## Amol (Oct 26, 2014)

Tea said:


> Any ideas how they're going to fuse the two titles (WSM + WGS) together?



Worlds Strongest Swords*Man*.
Oda gave us subtle hint


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> We aren't talking about Prime Whitebeard; there no doubt that he'd defeat Old Garp.


Prime Whitebeard would fuck Prime Garp in the ass 100 times out of 100, do you understand my point better if I say it this way?




> Because of plot.
> If Garp and Sengoku were to participate in the war, it would have turned the overall battle into a rape and/or forced Whitebeard to sink the island (killing himself).


Because Whitebeard was called the WSM, despite having an illness.
Because Whitebeard despite having an illness would still beat an healthy Garp in a fight.
Whitebeard is a winner, a golden medalist, Garp is the guy who took the glory for a feat he didn't even achieve.

Garp isn't a hero, this is just a lie spread by people who think he is actually the one who captured Roger.



> He was inferred to be a rival by Roger himself, who is apparently equal to Whitebeard in his prime.


Being a rival doesn't mean he's equal to Roger.
We have evidence that Garp wasn't on their lvl, not only Buggy (someone who was on Roger's ship and saw him fight) confirms it, but also Oda has already proven us that WB  was stronger than Garp.



> Yes, he mid-diffs. Unless you can tell me how the guy competes with Garp in the physical department. He's slower and physically weaker; his Conqueror's Haki won't make any difference against someone of Garp's caliber; and Garp probably has superior Haki (in general), considering he is one of the only individuals who fought on par with Roger without a fruit.


I love this forum.
If I say Mihawk is slightly stronger than Shanks I get shits on by haters like Amol but when someone says Garp fucking mid-diff WB then they shut the fuck up like if nothing 
happened.
I don't think you understand what mid diff means, WB is not outclassed by Garp in stats, he's more durable than him, and he also has a feat that prove he's at least on par with Garp in strength (he stopped the moby dick with only one hand).



> You place Akainu too high.
> He's not on the same level as Shanks/Mihawk, let alone Prime Garp of all people. And yes, the gap between legends in their prime and top tiers is quite noticeable.


If Akainu was the protagonist of ONE PIECE, the story would end within a year.
Oda's words when he was interviewed.
You are telling me that the greatest marine of the middle generation, is not on the same lvl as Mihawk/Shanks?

What is your next joke?

Shanks solos the 3 admirals?


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 26, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> No, it's the sick version of Whitebeard without injuries.


OP said no heart problems, so I'm assuming that means Whitebeard is healthy. Not that it matters, he loses either way.


Dio said:


> The disparity in their durability probably won't even be _that_ large. I think it's safe to assume that Garp is far from a glass canon.


I know, but I still place Whitebeard as the better tank due to feats.


Amol said:


> Worlds Strongest Swords*Man*.
> Oda gave us subtle hint


He did it again. How could we have missed it?


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## Amol (Oct 26, 2014)

I don't hate you Extravlad  .
How can anyone hate you ?


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## JoJo (Oct 26, 2014)

Tea said:


> I know, but I still place Whitebeard as the better tank due to feats.


Oh yeah, I know what you mean, I was just saying that even if WB did outclass Garp in durability, Garp isn't a slouch in durability either.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 26, 2014)

Dio said:


> Oh yeah, I know what you mean, I was just saying that even if WB did outclass Garp in durability, Garp isn't a slouch in durability either.


Naturally, I would be pretty surprised and pretty disappointed if the man who cornered the Pirate King with nothing but his Fist wasn't a tanker. I was just wondering if there was any other area that Garp didn't have the advantage in, because being a tank (which is the one thing I know for sure that Whitebeard is superior in) is only going to help Whitebeard stall the inevitable.


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## Amol (Oct 26, 2014)

Tea said:


> He did it again. How could we have missed it?


Only Extravlad noticed .
We are not worthy of being One Piece fans


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Oct 26, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> I am not contradicting myself and you are making no sense
> Whitebeard is said to be the ONLY ONE who was on par with PK Roger.
> It's enough to prove that Garp was weaker than both of them.
> Then we have another evidence, WB is the WSM, not Garp ( despite being pretty healthy)
> ...



You're using Buggy's words, eh? Well guess what? I'll use the Pirate fucking king's own words which came much later than buggy's words.

As if Garp put effort into carrying that iron ball? friend was smiling and lecturing luffy not to underestimate him.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> You're using Buggy's words, eh? Well guess what? I'll use the Pirate fucking king's own words which came much later than buggy's words.


Use whatever you want, Roger never said Garp was as strong as him.
He said they almost killed each other countless time.
It could very well be referring to their young days, just like Smoker almost caught Luffy many times, but won't even come close to his strength by EoS.
Buggy saw Roger fighting when he was in his prime, and he said WB was the only one on par with him.

Garp is inferior, he can't even become the WSM despite WB having random heart attacks while fighting.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Prime Whitebeard would fuck Prime Garp in the ass 100 times out of 100, do you understand my point better if I say it this way?



Prime Whitebeard doesn't have the feats or hype to suggest that he can no-diff Prime Garp.



> Because Whitebeard was called the WSM, despite having an illness.



WSM was likely a title that stuck to his name since Roger's death. He got weaker over time due to  his sickness. 
Plus, he's very arrogant and would lose to the likes of Dragon/Shanks.



> Because Whitebeard despite having an illness would still beat an healthy Garp in a fight.



I don't see where that was implied. 



> Whitebeard is a winner, a golden medalist, Garp is the guy who took the glory for a feat he didn't even achieve.
> 
> Garp isn't a hero, this is just a lie spread by people who think he is actually the one who captured Roger.



Is there any proof that his title is attributed to imprisoning Roger?
Garp was the strongest marine ever produced.



> *Being a rival doesn't mean he's equal to Roger.*
> We have evidence that Garp wasn't on their lvl, not only Buggy (someone who was on Roger's ship and saw him fight) confirms it,



What else does it mean, then?
They cornered each other multiple times throughout life and even fought close to death.



> but also Oda has already proven us that WB  was stronger than Garp.



Can you show me this information? I must have missed it.



> I love this forum.
> If I say Mihawk is slightly stronger than Shanks I get shits on by haters like Amol



Didn't Oda state that Shanks lost no strength with the loss of his arm?
And isn't that how you differentiate the two?

I think it's obvious that Shanks is stronger than Mihawk.  It is just conjecture on both sides, but the author hinted that Shanks has the strongest willpower we've seen. His Conqueror's Haki is capable of damaging physical objects, and he casually blocked Akainu's full-powered magma fist with a willpower-imbued sword. And that's the same fist that damaged Newgate. There's also the fact that Shanks has greater relevance to the plot, and Roger could have been his mentor; he's the one who inherited that hat, after all.



> but when someone says Garp fucking mid-diff WB then they shut the fuck up like if nothing
> happened.



Need I remind you that Whitebeard is missing a vast portion of his power once again?



> I don't think you understand what mid diff means, WB is not outclassed by Garp in stats, he's more durable than him,



He's outclassed in speed, physical strength and willpower. WB only outclasses him in durability, but most of the wounds were fodder bullets and swords. Most pirates in this manga come off as superhuman. Akainu's onslaught was the only thing that came off as substantial; it's a good feat. 

But people make a big deal out of the gunshots and swords.



> and he also has a feat that prove he's at least on par with Garp in strength (he stopped the moby dick with only one hand).



Garp destroyed mountains with his fist and casually tossed an iron ball that's larger than Thousand Sunny. I'm pretty sure most top tiers have enough physical strength to accomplish what WB did (the ship), and Akainu managed to block Whitebeard's bisento with his foot; that's a strength feat on its own. I do think Newgate is physically stronger than Akainu, but Garp is just another story.

Garp is physically stronger than both Akainu and Whitebeard by quite a lot; he excels in that area and reached his level through "physical strength" and "willpower" alone.

You're really discrediting Garp's portrayal as a character.



> If Akainu was the protagonist of ONE PIECE, the story would end within a year.
> Oda's words when he was interviewed.



That goes for anyone. Plot armor is powerful.



> You are telling me that the greatest marine of the middle generation, is not on the same lvl as Mihawk/Shanks?



Considering Shanks/Mihawk are on the same level as Old Whitebeard, Akainu wouldn't be placed on the same level.


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## Chrollo Lucilfer (Oct 26, 2014)

Can't you just fucking say 'you're right' for once? Good job not quoting the rest of the post 
It could be referring to his younger days, shit excuse someone desperate to be right would use.
Caught someone=killing someone, awesome logic.
Smoker almost caught Luffy once, one fucking time. And luffy has long surpassed Smoker while still being leagues below pk/admiral tier, but when he reaches PK tier he'll say you almost caught me countless times?
Chasing someone and actually ending up in deathmatch with them/=/chasing someone and not fighting


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 26, 2014)

King Itachi said:


> Considering Shanks/*Mihawk are on the same level as Old Whitebeard*, Akainu wouldn't be placed on the same level.


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## Tainted Sun (Oct 26, 2014)

Whitebeard wins obviously, so what if he doesn't have his fruit? He's still the WSM.




Masvindu said:


> If Garp really was nearly as strong as Roger, and fought with him in his prime fairly evenly.



Who says Garp fought Roger in his prime? That was never stated.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Under the assumption that Mihawk isn't far weaker than Shanks...
I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's on the same level as Shanks/Old Whitebeard.

He'd probably lose against either of them, but I can see him putting up a great fight.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Shanks has the greatest portrayal we've seen out of living characters, and Dragon has more hype than any character in One Piece. At Marineford, it was made very clear that Whitebeard wasn't nearly as powerful as he had been in his prime. Marco, his best subordinate, even claimed that it was true. Shanks' entrance at Marineford and clash against Whitebeard assert that he's either stronger than or equal to Whitebeard. However, I think Akagami deserves the marginal edge over Old WB. Whitebeard himself called both Shanks and Mihawk the jewels of their era, but Shanks seems to have surpassed his rival in that aspect and possibly became the strongest person of the generation. 
At this point, only Dragon is likely superior to him.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

Shanks is not a Yonko.

Drago is not Luffy's father.

If you are gonna refute Wb's title then I can do the same thing with pretty much any statement made in the manga.

Call me later, you know when Shanks take an admiral gauntlet, kick Akainu's ass despite being severely injured and the die standing.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

Didn't Whitebeard state that he cant always be the strongest?
By that time, he was already weaker than Shanks.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> Didn't Whitebeard state that he cant always be the strongest?


He said he won't be able to remain the strongest forever.
And he was right since he died 1 hour later.
Shanks wasn't stronger than Old WB, he's weaker than Mihawk (as proved by the WSS title) and most llikely inferior to the likes of Akainu and Dragon.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 26, 2014)

I guess that can be construed differently, depending on how you look at it. 
And doesn't that mean Mihawk is stronger than Old Whitebeard in your eyes?
Since you think the latter is a swordsman, too?


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> And doesn't that mean Mihawk is stronger than Old Whitebeard in your eyes?


WB isn't a swordsman, he carry a Bisento which can be considered a sword, but he is not relying on it at all and when he's bloodlusted he doesn't even use it.
It's different from fighters like Law or Fujitora who need are relying on their sword for pretty much everything.


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## Nox (Oct 26, 2014)

> Prime Whitebeard would fuck Prime Garp in the ass 100 times out of 100


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

Yes he would.

Prime WB > Old WB > Prime Garp.


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## Nox (Oct 26, 2014)

^

You mean to say Rodger was almost killed countless times with an Old WB level opponent? 

Or Are you going to come and say that Prime Garp was fighting sick Rodger who was equal to Old WB? In which case you would be implying that Prime WB lost his power more than 24+ years ago (which is when Rodger was last active) since if he had his prime strength he would be > Rodger which makes no sense seeing as how they are equals.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> You mean to say Rodger was almost killed countless times with an Old WB level opponent?


Give me a proof that Roger was in his prime when he was almost killed by Garp.
Buggy spent 3 years on Roger's ship, and his statement is pretty clear WB is the only man who could fight on par with Roger.



> Or Are you going to come and say that Prime Garp was fighting sick Rodger who was equal to Old WB?


Prime Garp never defeated PK Roger.
Prime Garp couldn't go the distance he would give Roger high diff, not extreme


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## Nox (Oct 26, 2014)

> Give me a proof that Roger was in his prime when he was almost killed by Garp.
> *Buggy spent 3 years on Roger's ship, and his statement is pretty clear WB is the only man who could fight on par with Roger.*



An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Do you mean to say Garp only started fighting Rodger when he decided to become the PK? In order for this to be possible Rodger would have to have been in the Blues during majority of his tenure or pulling a Shanks and lazing about on some island doing nothing. Garp is a marine from HQ which means alongside the Admirals they are marines who are mainly sectioned in the  Grandline. We have seen him patrol all up down the place from East Blue - Water 7 - HQ & Marineford. If Smoker & Luffy's relationship is anything to go by as well as the panel from OP Chapter 0 Garp was most likely chasing Rodger for a good proportion of the time he was active in the Grandline.


@bold
I could use the same faulty logic against you. Rodger conquered the GL in the last four years of his life when he was sick. You yourself mentioned that Buggy was on the ship for 3. Given that he was present to see the Battle of Edd war (occured 27 years ago / Rodger became PK 25 years ago / Executed 24 years ago) , he was most likely 'on' during the PK decline in health (health descent begun 21 years ago). Therefore you could argue that the man who he saw tied to WB tie was not even in his prime. 

NB: Just in case you think otherwise I believe Prime WB and Rodger were equals.



> Prime Garp never defeated PK Roger.
> Prime Garp couldn't go the distance he would give Roger high diff, not extreme


OFC he disbanded his crew and turned himself in. 
The statement by Rodger was used to heavily imply that the two men were legends who level was on the same level. However, from manga evidence WB / Rodger were superior to him. Both in prime and old age.


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## Beckman (Oct 26, 2014)

Full power WB is stronger than full power Garp regardless of it's in their prime or preskip forms.

That is however irrelevant because this thread isn't about full power WB, it's about a WB that have lost a significant amount of power. More than enough for Garp to get the advantage.


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## Extravlad (Oct 26, 2014)

> Do you mean to say Garp only started fighting Rodger when he decided to become the PK?


I meant Garp almost killed Roger countless times before Roger became PK.
Garp never won against Prime Roger, he was inferior to him as proved by both Buggy's statement and the fact that an ill WB is still stronger than a healthy Garp.



> The statement by Rodger was used to heavily imply that the two men were legends who level was on the same level.


If Garp was on the same lvl as Roger/WB then why is he weaker than an ill Whitebear who has heart attacks while fighting?


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## Canute87 (Oct 26, 2014)

Extravlad said:


> Yes he would.
> 
> Prime WB > Old WB > Prime Garp.



Stop the foolishness.


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## Tainted Sun (Oct 26, 2014)

There seems to be some misunderstanding that Garp fought Roger in his prime, no where was that ever stated.

All tha was stated was they fought, you have no idea how powerful Roger was when they fought.

For example, Arlong gave Luffy a good fight, and Luffy is going to be the future King, by that logic, Arlong is very close to Pirate King logic. 

Now how do we know Garp didn't fight Roger during his prime? Simple.

If Garp did, he would have been the World's Strongest Man instead of a sick, old Whitebeard who was attached to a bloody IV healing system for crying out loud. In fact, even after being stabbed by Squadro, Sengoku still claimed that Whitebeard was the World's Strongest man, and Sengoku obviously knows Garps strength very well.


At the end of the day, Whitebeard lost way more strength then Garp as Garp doesn't have a disease, and yet he was still stronger than Garp, meaning Garp never fought Roger when he as his prime.

Garp and Roger were very close in strenth at one point but Roger surpassed him by a lot, the same way Kaidou and Moriah were once equals and Kaidou surpassed him, and the same way Luffy and Rob Lucci were very close in strength. 

Only Whitebeard could fight Roger in his prime, no one else.


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