# Sora (KH2) vs. Nappa



## Kuya (Dec 3, 2007)

Can Sora take this or no?


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

No.  Not even close.


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

info on nappa


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## Sōsuke Aizen (Dec 3, 2007)

Kuya said:


> Can Sora take this or no?



nope, he can't.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> info on nappa



Are you serious?


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

Yes, I am
I just checked on Google, I know who he is, I just forgot the name
I'm not sure on whether he could beat nappa or not
Chain of memories Sora can stop time and instant kill his enemies


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## kaz (Dec 3, 2007)

Lol Nappa be awful.

Sora takes this with the standard Keyblade.


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## Kuya (Dec 3, 2007)

I made this because last week I made a Sora vs. end of manga Hiei thread and most said Sora.

and at the end of the manga i'd put the YYH crew at just under Vegeta/Nappa level.


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## Bolt Crank (Dec 3, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> info on nappa


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

Meh, I see COM Sora stoping time and choping his head off


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## The Fireball Kid (Dec 3, 2007)

Nappa pwns him with a city leveling gesture.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 3, 2007)

Dr. David Friendly said:


> Nappa pwns him with a city leveling gesture.



Sora uses Reflega and Nappa pwns himself.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> Sora uses Reflega and Nappa pwns himself.



Of course, we've seen no evidence it can reflect city busters, but that's not stopping anyone, is it?


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

Well, wikki says the city busting attack comes from fisrupting the magnetic field
well, Sora can't mimmic that much of an output, but I think he could survive long enough if he combines reflect with magnega to stop time and whack his head off


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## Emery (Dec 3, 2007)

Sora wins.  He's just way too fucking h4x for Nappa.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

Emery said:


> Sora wins.  He's just way too fucking h4x for Nappa.



The use of triangle button is disabled for this match.  He won't be that h4x.


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## Sylar (Dec 3, 2007)

If Sora's Reflega can block attacks from a Kingdom Hearts backed Xemnas, I can't see Nappa breaking through the shield.


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## Vance (Dec 3, 2007)

_Nappa rapestomps this match. He busted a city with no effort. He took an explosion from Chatzu and was barely hurt._


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

Reflect tanked mecha xenmas attacks
yeah, that will defend long to freeze time and chop his head off


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

Mecha Xemnas only had unquantifiable laser beam attacks as feats.  And Sora's strength isn't even going to bother Nappa.  In DB, a person much weaker than Nappa is able to chuck a pillar across continents.  Plus pre-Saiyan Saga Goku is able to tank an island razing attack.


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

pillar?
Sora is tanking getting the whole Agrabah pallace being thrown at him by a Gallactus sized high end reality warper and slicing through skyscrapers
Mistic blades souldn't have all that trouble cutting through a time frozen sayan mook


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 3, 2007)

Bits and pieces of the palace were being thrown at him, not the whole thing.  Pre-Saiyan Goku could handle that easily.


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## Banhammer (Dec 3, 2007)

question is
If sora casts warp, would it count as a win?
Or does it have to be "stopga" and then magic sword slice his head off?


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## wheres the beef? (Dec 3, 2007)

If Sora can take on Hiei,he won't have any problems with Nappa.
To put end of the Manga Hiei under Saiyan saga Vegeta's level?


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## Chainwave (Dec 3, 2007)

If Sora can beat Lexaeus silhouette, he can take Nappa.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 3, 2007)

Xemnas was the strongest being in the Kingdom Hearts universe. Meaning he was more powerful than Jafar, Hades, Hercules...etc. And Xemnas didn't have the limitations that Jafar had.

Next point on the list would be people thinking that you can somehow break through Reflega. How exactly is that possible? Punch it and the same for is returned back to you. Blast it and the blast is returned back to you. And it worked with any attack in the entire game. It doesn't copy anything either, it just returns your own attack back to you.

And Sora already killed stuff that should normally not be killable.

EDIT:

By the way, he fought pretty much all those people before he merged with Roxas again. Meaning he was at half power when he killed Jafar and beat Hades and Hercules (and two of the Titans along with Chernabog if you count KH1 feats).


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## wheres the beef? (Dec 3, 2007)

Exactly!I just don't get why people think Nappa can even last a minute with someone who can stop time,reflect blasts/physical attacks and cut Sky scrapers.
Alot of Sora's enemies are stronger than Nappa,for example Hades .


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## Enclave (Dec 3, 2007)

Nappa has more raw destructive power, however Sora beats him out in versatility and is fast enough that Nappa wouldn't even be able to react to him or even see him.


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## Estrecca (Dec 3, 2007)

Very well. Xenmas is the most powerful being in the Kingdom Hearts universe as stated by the game creator. Fine.

Can anyone quantify in the slightest the actual usefulness of this mega-awesome-super power upgrade? Power comes in many flavours and for all we know, whatever Xenmas got out of Kingdom Hearts grants him abilities that aren't directly useful in a combat. 

And before I forget. Kingdom Hearts Jafar = Total Wimp. Both he and Hades are massively underpowered in comparison with their Disney selves. Even Hercules has a single decent feat that compares with the movie version (throwing Titan Rock helluva far in the intro to Olympus Colyseum in KH2) and too many moments of retarded weakness to count.


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## Shiron (Dec 3, 2007)

God, I love Kingdom Hearts, but all this over-exaggeration of Sora's abillities has got to stop...


wheres the beef? said:


> Exactly!I just don't get why people think Nappa can even last a minute with someone who can stop time,reflect blasts/physical attacks and cut Sky scrapers.


Stop time (although this is KH2 Sora, so he doesn't have Stop) and reflect (although that's really just a no-limits fallacy) I can at least understand where people are comming from on, but cut sky scapers? Nappa was at least a city blaster, so I can't understand why a person who can cut sky-scapers would be a threat for him.


> Alot of Sora's enemies are stronger than Nappa,for example Hades .


Yeah... Too bad Sora didn't defeat Hades himself; he only beat him because of Hercules assisting . And even then, they didn't beat him; he was only ultimately defeated because he fell into the pit.

And KH II Hades wasn't really that impressive. Some flames, teleportation, and that's about it. Yes, there's also invulnerabillity, but Sora had to rely on Herc to get rid of that, so it's not something Sora would be able to take care of on his own. So, what Sora himself could beat of Hade's definitley shouldn't have been much of a threat to Nappa.

As for Jafar, since he got brought up... that was pure CIS, plain and simple. Jafar could have just kept Sora immoblile through the entire fight, instead of just in little spurts, and thrown parts of Agrabah at him until he died or something like that. There was no way Sora should have beat him. The only reason he did was for the plot, plain and simple.

As for Xemas... If he was the strongest, even stronger than Jafar, then it was really his own fault that he was defeated, since he didn't act like it and only used lasers and beamswords and such on Sora. His speed was very impressive, but in actual destruction abillity, there wasn't much to be seen, at least not comapred to city-busting level.

Not to mention Sora himself would have lost to Xemnas if it wasn't for Riku helping him out. The two of them beat him together; without Riku, Sora would have been a gonner. Sora put up a considerable effort, but it still wasn't enough to beat Xemnas on his own.

So, pretty much all I'm really seeing is "Sora can cut skyscrapers", which I don't believe will be enough to beat someone on Nappa's level. Now, if Genie is taken into consideration, and we give Sora the abillity to have Genie to whatever, then I can see him beating Nappa. But other than that. Nah, don't really see it.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Dec 3, 2007)

I agree with the part you where you said that Sora beat Xemnas with Riku's help, I mean people act like when the creator said Twilight Xemnas was the strongest person in Kingdom Hearts, everyone acts like Sora was an exception, so lemme state this loud and clear.

TWILIGHT XEMNAS IS THE MOST POWERFUL SINGLE PERSON IN KINGDOM HEARTS NO EXCEPTIONS YET, HE IS GREATER THAN ANY 1 PERSON.

I hope that cleared some things up


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 3, 2007)

AJpinecrest2 said:


> I agree with the part you where you said that Sora beat Xemnas with Riku's help, I mean people act like when the creator said Twilight Xemnas was the strongest person in Kingdom Hearts, everyone acts like Sora was an exception, so lemme state this loud and clear.
> 
> TWILIGHT XEMNAS IS THE MOST POWERFUL SINGLE PERSON IN KINGDOM HEARTS NO EXCEPTIONS YET, HE IS GREATER THAN ANY 1 PERSON.
> 
> I hope that cleared some things up



No need to scream. And I don't think anyone said that Sora beat Xemnas alone. It's still a very impressive feat that Sora and Riku beat him.


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## wheres the beef? (Dec 3, 2007)

/spam Genie's final form 

Nappa's got nothing on genie.


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## soupnazi235 (Dec 4, 2007)

Can Sora survive a planet-busting attack?


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## Enclave (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh and Sora is physically stronger than Dragonball characters so he most certainly can hurt Nappa.


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## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2007)

If we agree that magical weapons shouldn't have much dificulty slicing nappa's head off, because, well, they are magical, then I can see Sora win


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## Enclave (Dec 4, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> If we agree that magical weapons shouldn't have much dificulty slicing nappa's head off, because, well, they are magical, then I can see Sora win



Not even an issue.  Buu Saga Goku in base form couldn't even lift 10 tonne weights strapped to each of his limbs.  Sora has shown FAR higher strength than that by batting skyscrapers like they were baseballs.  Sora is more than strong enough to slice any Dragonball character to ribbons let alone Nappa.


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## Vicious (Dec 4, 2007)

soupnazi235 said:


> Can Sora survive a planet-busting attack?


I dont see how this matters since nappa isnt capable of planet busting, and even if he could, Sora could kill him with his hax abilities before he could do such a thing.


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## Estrecca (Dec 4, 2007)

Enclave said:


> Not even an issue.  Buu Saga Goku in base form couldn't even lift 10 tonne weights strapped to each of his limbs.  Sora has shown FAR higher strength than that by batting skyscrapers like they were baseballs.  Sora is more than strong enough to slice any Dragonball character to ribbons let alone Nappa.



I giggle everytime someone mentions this and then forgets to mention the interesting details, such as Goku being dead, in a different dimension and in a world of unknown gravity at the moment of the test. If it was anything like King Kaio's original planet, then we are talking ten gravities right there, which makes the event the equivalent of lifting four hundred tons in Earth. 

Never mind other feats that get happily ignored, such as Goku moving the house-sized boulder next to Roshi's home right after his training at the very beginning of Dragon Ball or Goku's ability to move when the artificial gravity of his ship accidentally jumped to over 100g. 

It is almost cute at this point.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

Estrecca said:


> I giggle everytime someone mentions this and then forgets to mention the interesting details, such as Goku being dead, in a different dimension and in a world of unknown gravity at the moment of the test. If it was anything like King Kaio's original planet, then we are talking ten gravities right there, which makes the event the equivalent of lifting four hundred tons in Earth.



And I think it?s funny that people constantly forget that the concept of weight already takes stuff like gravity into account. Second, he was in the afterlife not some unknown dimension and we could see him move quite fine when he first appeared at Enma?s place, same with Kami and pretty much all the wimpy people that work there.

Kaio?s mini planet was special and I think that has been said often enough.




> Never mind other feats that get happily ignored, such as Goku moving the house-sized boulder next to Roshi's home right after his training at the very beginning of Dragon Ball



First you are exaggerating the size. That thing looked big compared to Goku, Kuririn and Roshi and all three of them aren?t exactly tall.

Second, the feat is inconsistent with later stuff that happened.

- Adult Goku wearing 100kg clothes while training with God and them causing such a difference in his performance.

- 10 times gravity being a bother to him (considering that it would put his weight somewhere around only a ton, two with the weightened clothes).

- Trunks barely walking at 150 times gravity (sounds impressive but he weighs a lot less than an adult). That should put his weight somewhere around 7 tons. And he is hundred thousands of times more powerful than Kid Goku ever was.



> or Goku's ability to move when the artificial gravity of his ship accidentally jumped to over 100g.



Wow, can we say filler? That never happened in the manga. And by the way, lets assume Goku weighs somewhere around 120 kg (and it's probably less) that would put his weight at 100 times gravity at 12 tons.


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## Enclave (Dec 4, 2007)

One thing I love is how people always forget that later feats trump earlier feats.

For example, Tao throwing a pillar the way he did is a class 100 feat, however his physical strength being that level was retconned later in the manga  by Akira deciding that he didn't want his characters to be that physically powerful.

The last physical strength feat in the manga was base Goku being unable to lift 10 tonne weights strapped to each of his limbs which would mean that it trumps all previous strength feats.  It was Akira's final showing of how physically powerful he wanted his characters to be.

Coincidentally this also shows that Dragonball characters have MUCH higher ki defense than they do physical defense.

I don't see how this surprises anybody though, Dragonball characters also were all about who had the bigger ki blast, not who was physically stronger.

Oh yea and as Alucard said.  Weight is relative to gravity.  The weights were 10 tonne weights based on the gravity of the planet they were currently on.


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## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2007)

and goku isn't even the one on trial here is he?


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## Estrecca (Dec 4, 2007)

Enclave said:


> Oh yea and as Alucard said.  Weight is relative to gravity.  The weights were 10 tonne weights based on the gravity of the planet they were currently on.



In stating this, you are 100% incorrect. The ton is a , not of weight. A ton of material is the same whether you put it in a black hole or in the Moon. It is the weight that changes with gravity and weight that is a force is measured in .


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## Estrecca (Dec 4, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> and goku isn't even the one on trial here is he?



The one in trial is a guy that makes Kid Goku look positively wimpy in comparison. Raditz had early DBZ Goku outclassed in speed, strength and energy output and Nappa was Raditz's superior in every sense.


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## Enclave (Dec 4, 2007)

/sigh

I hate it when people bring up that lame ass statement.

Tonne is used both as a measurement of weight and also a measurement of mass.  After all, a metric tonne is 2,204.6 lbs.


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## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2007)

That ton was produced by an american dub
in america, a ton is much smaller amount of weight relative to that mass


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## Enclave (Dec 4, 2007)

You think they used the american ton instead of a metric tonne?  I always assumed that it would be a metric tonne as Japan is on the metric system isn't it?


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## Estrecca (Dec 4, 2007)

Well. I had to check.

The Spanish dub definitely does mention tons, too. And Spain is a metric country, as is Japan. It is not impossible that the Spanish version is based in the American or British dubs, but it could also come from the original Japanese version.

Can anyone who has seen/read Dragonball in the original Japanese bring some light to this issue?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

Estrecca said:


> Well. I had to check.
> 
> The Spanish dub definitely does mention tons, too. And Spain is a metric country, as is Japan. It is not impossible that the Spanish version is based in the American or British dubs, but it could also come from the original Japanese version.
> 
> Can anyone who has seen/read Dragonball in the original Japanese bring some light to this issue?



It's tons in Germany too. But still, metric country use kilogram and tons...etc as weight meassures as well in everyday life (even in school). I know, I live in Germany.


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## Banhammer (Dec 4, 2007)

yeah, but american tons are rather smaller than metric


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

TheFourthNin said:


> yeah, but american tons are rather smaller than metric



That's only a difference of 16 kg.


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## soupnazi235 (Dec 4, 2007)

Eiris said:


> I dont see how this matters since nappa isnt capable of planet busting, and even if he could, Sora could kill him with his hax abilities before he could do such a thing.



He isn't? Was he THAT much weaker than Vegeta and Goku?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

soupnazi235 said:


> He isn't? Was he THAT much weaker than Vegeta and Goku?



About 5 times weaker and I don't think that Vegeta and Goku could have busted the planet either if you consider Frieza's performence on Namek.


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## soupnazi235 (Dec 4, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> About 5 times weaker and I don't think that Vegeta and Goku could have busted the planet either if you consider Frieza's performence on Namek.



Didn't Vegeta blow up a planet before he got to earth...and didn't he say that he was going to blow up Earth (and then they had the energy beam constipation battle)?


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

soupnazi235 said:


> Didn't Vegeta blow up a planet before he got to earth...



Filler, that didn't happen in the manga. The only characters that destroyed a planet in the manga are Frieza (and his performence was subpar) and Kid Buu (Cell as well, if you count Kaio's 'planet').




> and didn't he say that he was going to blow up Earth (and then they had the energy beam constipation battle)?



Bluff. He wasn't really right in the head at point in time and he didn't want Goku to dodge his attack.


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## soupnazi235 (Dec 4, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> Filler, that didn't happen in the manga. The only characters that destroyed a planet in the manga are Frieza (and his performence was subpar) and Kid Buu (Cell as well, if you count Kaio's 'planet').
> 
> Bluff. He wasn't really right in the head at point in time and he didn't want Goku to dodge his attack.


Wow, really? I fuckin hate fillers, man.


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## Estrecca (Dec 4, 2007)

Alucard2997 said:


> It's tons in Germany too. But still, metric country use kilogram and tons...etc as weight meassures as well in everyday life (even in school). I know, I live in Germany.



I know _exactly_ what you mean. "Pesa una tonelada" is something that is said over here very often, but it is not technically correct. Of course, neither Goku, nor the Kaios are exactly scientists, so you might have a point, but there are still several feats that contradict this one.


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## Kamen Rider Ryoma (Dec 4, 2007)

Estrecca said:


> I know _exactly_ what you mean. "Pesa una tonelada" is something that is said over here very often, but it is not technically correct. Of course, neither Goku, nor the Kaios are exactly scientists, so you might have a point, but there are still several feats that contradict this one.



And all from a time where Dragonball was more comedy-oriented. If you look at the training progress after Goku became an adult and ignore the childhood years then it makes a lot more sense and there are a lot less contradictions strength or speed-wise.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm bumping this thread because it is just too funny.

Nappa utterly rape-stomps Sora.

I will address many of the completely shitty "arguments" the Sora supporters made in this thread.

First of all, Reflect. This shitty argument proposes that somehow, it will be able to deflect all of Nappa's attacks, even though it has never deflected, well, ANYTHING remotely close to it. This is a massive No-Limits fallacy. Let me give you an example children. I can deflect a baseball with a baseball bat pretty easily. The shitty logic used here when applied to this example would mean I could do the same to a speeding train. Clearly, I could not. And don't mention how ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Xemnas' Final Form's attacks were reflected by it. Call me when Xemnas is a casual mountain buster, when he is, guess what? That will make him equal to Raditz!  Nappa quickly and effortlessly with a thrust of his fingers upwards annihilated not only a city, but completely leveled everything for miles. Faggoty Reflect is not doing a thing.

Next, the notion that Sora will *Snickers*, "BLITZ" Nappa. Right, because he has DEFINATELY shown speed like that, right? Haha no. You see children, Mercenary Tao was clocked at being faster than Mach 14...Mercenary Tao is practically a statue in comparison to Nappa, who was easily taking on both Krillin and Piccolo at the same time. Sora's only real CREDIBLE speed feat is him dodging a bullet from a flintlock pistol wielded by a pirate. Now, this is a decent speed feat since he does it with ease, putting him at supersonic speeds I would wager, but is nothing compared to even Master Roshi's speed, who after being fired on by machine guns while he had his back turned, caught every single bullet. Master Roshi is faster than Sora, let alone Nappa. Also, please, for the love of God, do NOT bring up any bullshit about Sora deflecting those so-called "lasers," which were not lasers, but little balls of light. In other words, you cannot prove their speed, they are certainly not lightspeed.

Now, I will address time stop. Although Nappa would obviously not be immune to it...Well first of all this is KHII Sora, who does not have it. Second of all, do you REALLY think he could cast it before the much faster Nappa lifts his fingers, incinerating Sora? Thirdly, Sora would not be able to signifigantly harm him anyway. Raditz took Piccolo's Masenko-Ha with ease, the same Masenko destroyed the moon. Nappa>>>Raditz.

As for Sora being stronger than Nappa...Dude naw. First of all, one feat, does NOT discount the many other strength feats in Dragonball. That 40 ton bullshit, is PIS. It does not discount feats such as the Ox King making short work of tanks, Mercenary Tao throwing a stone pillar for miles, Freeza kicking Goku through islands, and other things I cannot bother to remember. So no, Nappa is stronger, since he is much stronger than Mercenary Tao.

Now, I will address Genie. I do not enjoy the constant No-Limits fallacy displayed by bringing him up. What has he done? Killed some Heartless, that is about it. Jafar was able to throw sections of the Agrabah palace, whoopty doo. They are not that powerful, nowhere near the level people think they are, the fact that people classify them as high-level reality warpers is hilarious. Mad Jim Jaspers is a high-level reality warper. He would take a shit on a million Genies. 

Also, Hades>Nappa? Lol dude naw, he just shot some fire around, that is it. 

That is about it I guess. Nappa for the rape.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jul 15, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> Also, please, for the love of God, do NOT bring up any bullshit about Sora deflecting those so-called "lasers," which were not lasers, but* little balls of light.* In other words, you cannot prove their speed, they are certainly not lightspeed.



I'm not agreeing with that argument, but a ball of light would still travel at lightspeed.



> Now, I will address Genie. I do not enjoy the constant No-Limits fallacy displayed by bringing him up. What has he done? Killed some Heartless, that is about it. Jafar was able to throw sections of the Agrabah palace, whoopty doo. They are not that powerful, nowhere near the level people think they are, the fact that people classify them as high-level reality warpers is hilarious.



Genie's transmuted creatures, meaning he can transmute Nappa into a Monkey, or an Elephant.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> I'm not agreeing with that argument, but a ball of light would still travel at lightspeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Genie's transmuted creatures, meaning he can transmute Nappa into a Monkey, or an Elephant.



1. No, it would not. It is a little ball of light, not light in its natural state or a laser. Little balls of energy do not move at lightspeed.

2. Transmuted what in KH? I cannot recall. Not that this is relevant, Nappa lifts his fingers, Genie dies.


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## Omega Level (Jul 15, 2009)

Im glad you brought this up Dark-Jaxx, I was reading the wiki and I read the link to this thread and the arguments for Sora are atrocious. No limits fallacy


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jul 15, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. No, it would not. It is a little ball of light, not light in its natural state or a laser. Little balls of energy do not move at lightspeed.



Light moves at lightspeed.

It really can't get simpler than that.

The common consenses is that Xemnas was firing energy blasts, not light, because light doesn't explode when it makes contact with someone.



> 2. Transmuted what in KH? I cannot recall. Not that this is relevant, Nappa lifts his fingers, Genie dies.



The creator of KH stated that apart from the changes he needed to make to the Disney world storylines so that Sora could affect it, the Disney worlds were the same, so since Genie did it in the movie, he can do it in KH.

That being said, I'm still pretty sure he transmuted Abu into an Elephant in KH though.


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## Zaelapolopollo (Jul 15, 2009)

Sora couldn't beat King Piccolo. He loses horribly here.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Light moves at lightspeed.
> 
> It really can't get simpler than that.
> 
> ...



1. Okay, please stop with the semantics game, you clearly understood what I meant.

But yes, they were not lightspeed, I doubt even sonic speed.

2. Um...No. That is, clearly, not what the creator's meant. The WORLDS are the same, yeah...But the characters are not. For example, did we see any indication, at all, that Tarzan could fight large heartless and kill them with a wooden spear in the movie? No, we did not. Same for most Disney allies in KH to be honest. The character's are not necessarily the same, and I am of the utmost certainty that without any bullshit, Movie Jafar would utterly rape Sora, yet this did not happen. 

I cannot recall to be honest. Been a while.

It's irrelevant though. Sora is dead before he summons Genie.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jul 15, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. Okay, please stop with the semantics game, you clearly understood what I meant.
> 
> But yes, they were not lightspeed, I doubt even sonic speed.



Well I mean, I thought I understood what you meant at first, but then you started saying light didn't move at lightspeed, so I got all confuzzled.



> 2. Um...No. That is, clearly, not what the creator's meant. The WORLDS are the same, yeah...But the characters are not. For example, did we see any indication, at all, that Tarzan could fight large heartless and kill them with a wooden spear in the movie? No, we did not. Same for most Disney allies in KH to be honest.



I think Tarzan fighting large heartlesses falls under the category of 'Changes so Sora could affect it.'



> The character's are not necessarily the same, and I am of the utmost certainty that without any bullshit,



The characters are part of the Worlds no?



> *Movie Jafar would utterly rape Sora, yet this did not happen.*



That's not true.



> I cannot recall to be honest. Been a while.



I'll see if I can find it.



> It's irrelevant though. Sora is dead before he summons Genie.



Never been arguing for Sora, just disproving your arguments.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

> First of all, Reflect. This shitty argument proposes that somehow, it will be able to deflect all of Nappa's attacks, even though it has never deflected, well, ANYTHING remotely close to it. This is a massive No-Limits fallacy. Let me give you an example children. I can deflect a baseball with a baseball bat pretty easily. The shitty logic used here when applied to this example would mean I could do the same to a speeding train. Clearly, I could not. And don't mention how ^ (not the meaning of the word "respect".) Xemnas' Final Form's attacks were reflected by it. Call me when Xemnas is a casual mountain buster, when he is, guess what? That will make him equal to Raditz! Nappa quickly and effortlessly with a thrust of his fingers upwards annihilated not only a city, but completely leveled everything for miles. Faggoty Reflect is not doing a thing




Do you know what a broken technique is?



> 2. Um...No. That is, clearly, not what the creator's meant. The WORLDS are the same, yeah...But the characters are not. For example, did we see any indication, at all, that Tarzan could fight large heartless and kill them with a wooden spear in the movie? No, we did not. Same for most Disney allies in KH to be honest. The character's are not necessarily the same, and I am of the utmost certainty that without any bullshit, Movie Jafar would utterly rape Sora, yet this did not happen.


And you know what Nomura meant how? It's been shown throughout all of KH that people can defeat heartless, but only a Keyblade Master can truly kill them. The worlds are the same, therefore the feats in the movies and even series are viable in KH. 

Also about Jafar, do you know what PIS/CIS is?


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 15, 2009)

The reflect spell has been broken before (watch Birth by Sleep trailer)

Nappa wins this with a flick of his wrist.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

Was it Sora's Reflega that was broken?


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 15, 2009)

No. But someone of equal strengh atleast.

Which shows that Sora's reflect is a no limits fallacy, since he can be broken by powerful concussive strikes


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> Well I mean, I thought I understood what you meant at first, but then you started saying light didn't move at lightspeed, so I got all confuzzled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I said they were little moving balls of light...Which first of all to my knowledge do not exist, but my point was always that they do not move as fast as actual light. But it's arguing semantics, balls of light, energy, whatever. Although I admit balls of energy is a more appropriate term for it.

That...Has nothing to do with Sora though. It has to do with Tarzan.

Indeed. And they must be changed to better suit the KHverse. To turn your argument upside-down, you assert they would not be changed unless it was in a way for Sora to affect them...Maybe they weakened the Genies so Sora could fight them? That is the most likely scenario. Although to make an off-topic statement so my opinion of the Genies is not understood, the Genies in the movie are overrated as well IMHO.

It is true. Jafar could have compressed Sora's body into a spherical crystal ball with a gesture, if it was movie version. 

Kay.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

I would love to have it confirmed that it is actually Reflega though and not a simple low level Reflect before we go and take it off the broken techniques list. I mean it's only similar in look so far without any confirmation.

But yes if that is Reflega then it isn't broken anymore.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> Do you know what a broken technique is?
> 
> 
> And you know what Nomura meant how? It's been shown throughout all of KH that people can defeat heartless, but only a Keyblade Master can truly kill them. The worlds are the same, therefore the feats in the movies and even series are viable in KH.
> ...



1. Wow. REAL convincing argument you have there mah boi. 

Yes, I know what a broken technique is...And Sora's Reflect is not one of them. It can reflect attacks...To a point. To say it can reflect something so ridiculously far above, well, ANY level of destruction in all of KHverse is simply ludicrous. It's shit-logic. Stop using it. 

2. Hahahaha no. It is not canon to Disney verses themselves, so the character's feats are NOT interchangeable, I guess that fucking Simba from Lion King can fight and kill a Skyscraper sized Heartless, AMIRITE!? Dude naw. 

Yes, I know what PIS/CIS is. I also know the OBD's stance on limitless beings. Jafar is limited only by three rules, but other than that is widely REGARDED to be limitless. However...OBD rules dictate if they can lose, they are not limitless. The Genies are overrated. Their feats place them as low-level reality warpers, nothing more.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jul 15, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> I said they were little moving balls of light...Which first of all to my knowledge do not exist, but my point was always that they do not move as fast as actual light. But it's arguing semantics, balls of light, energy, whatever. Although I admit balls of energy is a more appropriate term for it.



If you use the term 'light' everyone's going to think it has something to do with lightspeed.



> That...Has nothing to do with Sora though. It has to do with Tarzan.



Tarzan being able to fight Heartless is a necessary change to the original storyline so that it would fit in with the KHverse.

Besides, what feats do regular Heartless have that makes them unkillable by Tarzan?



> Indeed. And they must be changed to better suit the KHverse. To turn your argument upside-down, you assert they would not be changed unless it was in a way for Sora to affect them...Maybe they weakened the Genies so Sora could fight them? That is the most likely scenario. Although to make an off-topic statement so my opinion of the Genies is not understood, the Genies in the movie are overrated as well IMHO.



Maybe, but you can't really prove they were can you?



> It is true. Jafar could have compressed Sora's body into a spherical crystal ball with a gesture, if it was movie version.



And Sora would have been unharmed and changed back after a little bit.

Sora's shown resistance to transmutation.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

Dark-Jaxx said:


> 1. Wow. REAL convincing argument you have there mah boi.
> 
> Yes, I know what a broken technique is...And Sora's Reflect is not one of them. It can reflect attacks...To a point. To say it can reflect something so ridiculously far above, well, ANY level of destruction in all of KHverse is simply ludicrous. It's shit-logic. Stop using it.
> 
> ...


lol @ shit-logic. Reflega is still considered a broken move by the OBD, until it's proven that Aqua cast Reflega that is. Get over it.

Again lol. So we are completely disregarding what the creator of the games said is canon and what isn't? Now that's shit-logic. Also, only Keyblade wielders can kill heartless. 

Also with Genie, the creator states that the Disneyverses are canon, so he's still a high-tier.

EDIT: BTW I'm not saying Sora would win, I'm just saying that it's a generally accepted fact that Reflega is a broken technique and Genie is a high-tier reality warper.


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## Azure Flame Fright (Jul 15, 2009)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> Also, only Keyblade wielders can kill heartless.



You know KH2 made it actually seem like a negative thing for a Keyblade wielder to kill a Heartless since it amasses hearts into Kingdom Hearts.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> You know KH2 made it actually seem like a negative thing for a Keyblade wielder to kill a Heartless since it amasses hearts into Kingdom Hearts.


lol talk about being counter-productive. 

I need to play through it again. Though I wish I could skip the 5 hour tutorial.  

I also need to play through dotHack again and Persona 4. So much to do, so little time.


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## Tendou Souji (Jul 15, 2009)

Does your PS3 not have backwards compatibility or something? I thought they all had it.


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## Omega Level (Jul 15, 2009)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> Does your PS3 not have backwards compatibility or something? I thought they all had it.



The new ones are only backward compatible with PS1 games. Thats the price you pay when its cheaper.


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## Captain Smoker (Jul 15, 2009)

Sora fucking rapes. Sora has tanked way more powerful attacks than anything Nappa can dish out, has reacted to much faster speeds than anything nappa can dish out, has beaten much more stronger beings hand to hand than Nappa and has hax magic.


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## noobthemusical (Jul 15, 2009)

2 things
1) The hell is this thread

Sora dies, nappa take it with mid-high (at best if sora can go final form) difficulty, Sora only wins if he has Genie.

Sora is a solid SkyFather level he shitstomps Nappa with a Wooden sword Learn the truth noobs... Sarcasm in case you cant tell


2)


soupnazi235 said:


> Can Sora survive a planet-busting attack?




Nappa is not a planet buster, that one episode is anime only and per OBD rules unuseble, only SSJ (or higher depending who you ask) and up are considered planet busters


3) Wait whay make it compatible to ps1 but not 2, really it doesn't seem like that would cost money to change... Also if you dont care about warrenty you could always get an outside source to make it compatible.


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## Elite Ace (Jul 15, 2009)

soupnazi235 said:


> Can Sora survive a planet-busting attack?


 
Can Nappa deliver a planet busting attack ?


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## Ulti (Jul 15, 2009)

Wut? Sora beating Nappa? Nah Nappa stomps him, only chance Sora has is Genie but Sora gets blitzed.


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## Knight (Jul 15, 2009)

Nappa destroys him with a generic city busting attack.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 15, 2009)

Should'nt Nappa be a Moon buster?.


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## noobthemusical (Jul 15, 2009)

Maybe just maybe he is somewhat possibly close to being that power, but I think country buster is better.

Also the flaw which wont help Sora with surviveing, is that even if Nappa can and does planet bust he GGs himslef cause he cant survive in space


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## Banhammer (Jul 15, 2009)

No, I hardly recall Sora tanking Nappa level attacks.

But, Nappa's biggest bomb were some that screwed with the planet's magnetic field, not exactly "his power"
Not that it matters though

Sora wins this. Without summoning Genie
 How you ask? By sumoning Mandragora.

Mandragora absorbs all of his ki blasts, sends proton missies to the face, regenerates from absolutely anything nappa can throw at it, and once it has absorbed enough, it throws back all the ki back at nappa at once.


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## Knight (Jul 15, 2009)

Still say Nappa  wins this with a bunch of continent shots. unless you can prove that spell can state that amount.


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## Azrael Finalstar (Jul 15, 2009)

Nappa stomps. He spams city busters.


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## Knight (Jul 15, 2009)

hadomaru said:


> Nappa stomps. He spams city busters.



^This is the best answer so far.


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## ~Avant~ (Jul 15, 2009)

Wtf is Mandragora?


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## Ulti (Jul 15, 2009)

Dunno, maybe it's a summon in Chain of Memories or something?


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## Knight (Jul 15, 2009)

Doesn't matter isn't doing much to Nappa.


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## Fullmetal83 (Jul 15, 2009)

Sora wins this with stop. He just stop time and cut Nappa's head off. The guy from Ginyu force could stop time and everyone was affected ( vegeta and others). So if Vegeta on Namek was affected by time stop, I believe the Nappa Should be affect by it since he is a lower level. Physically Sora is Stronger then Nappa. You can argue that he is faster also. The only thing that Napa can do is try the City busting attack, but since it takes time to unleash Sora could impale him or decapitae before he could finish the attack.


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## Shiron (Jul 15, 2009)

This is KH2 Sora, though... No Stop to be had ('twas forgotten while Namine was fixing up his memories and never remembered).

And looking through this thread again, I see the laser-feat got pulled up again, and I still don't really understand this. To explain why, imagine that you have a laser pointer and are trying to point it at a cheetah that's running circles around you at a very close distance. Wouldn't exactly be the easiest thing, would it? Even though the laser itself moves at light speed, it's limited in it's ability to actually mark the cheetah by the speed you can move your arm. Same exact thing with Xigbar and his lasers. Yes, the lasers themselves might have been moving at light-speed, but their ability to effectively hit Sora is limited by Xigbar's ability to change their trajectory should Sora move. Thus, Sora's dodging of them, while impressive, doesn't necessarily imply that he's light-speed (Sora jumping to Xigbar before the lasers could hit their mark and were still in motion would imply that, but that's not what happened), especially since it requires a bit of prediction and moving ahead of the lasers' path before he actually starts firing them to not get hit.


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## Banhammer (Jul 15, 2009)

Phanteros said:


> Still say Nappa  wins this with a bunch of continent shots. unless you can prove that spell can state that amount.



The Mandragora space ship can absorb that much energy. It can absorb infinite ammounts of continuous energy, it absorbed Death Star-ish shots, and it absorbed continuously fire of a heartless megaaship, that once defeated, exploded and turned into a black hole, then the mandragora ship crosses through it anyway.
It also regenerates at a Buu speed, and if you completly destroy it, it will re-spawn up to three times.
So, you can only take it down with ballistics, and Nappa dosen't have the feats to do it.


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## Hellspawn28 (Jul 15, 2009)

> Nappa lifts his fingers, Genie dies.



Not to mention Genie in the game can only be use like for like 60 seconds or less. If it was the movie version then Genie would win.


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## Knight (Jul 15, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> The Mandragora space ship can absorb that much energy. It can absorb infinite ammounts of continuous energy, it absorbed Death Star-ish shots, and it absorbed continuously fire of a heartless megaaship, that once defeated, exploded and turned into a black hole, then the mandragora ship crosses through it anyway.
> It also regenerates at a Buu speed, and if you completly destroy it, it will re-spawn up to three times.
> So, you can only take it down with ballistics, and Nappa dosen't have the feats to do it.



can you prove that it can absorb that amount of energy? and last time I check this was Nappa vs Sora on foot.


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## Shiron (Jul 15, 2009)

Banhammer said:


> The Mandragora space ship can absorb that much energy. It can absorb infinite ammounts of continuous energy, it absorbed Death Star-ish shots, and it absorbed continuously fire of a heartless megaaship, that once defeated, exploded and turned into a black hole, then the mandragora ship crosses through it anyway.
> It also regenerates at a Buu speed, and if you completly destroy it, it will re-spawn up to three times.
> So, you can only take it down with ballistics, and Nappa dosen't have the feats to do it.


That's also a Nobody-ship itself (when it first enters, you can clearly see the marking for a second), which Sora has shown no ability to freely summon, so it's not relevant. And it's ability to absorb energy depends entirely upon Sora's reaction speed anyway: if his timing's off or too slow, he'll get hit.

I also have no clue what you're talking about with the re-spawn thing: As I remember, if Sora dies on it, he dies and the fight starts over (and things were made more difficult by how Sora can't use Magic or Items while on it to restore his health, and you have to beat Xemans's ship without them, before you die): there is no "re-spawning" or whatever, unless you're actually counting the Continue screen when Sora dies as that.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Azure Flame Kite said:


> If you use the term 'light' everyone's going to think it has something to do with lightspeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the first time it has been misconstrued in such a way. I have been referring to them as little balls of light for over a year.

But does not affect Sora in any way like you said.

I am not so much talking about normal Heartless as I am the larger, stronger ones.

Their feats are lesser.

Um, who mentioned transmutation? He would be SEALED there, his body would not be transmuted.


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## Omega Level (Jul 15, 2009)

You guys are forgeting Genie cant kill...it is against his laws. Transmutation doesn't really do much to DB characters, of course they turn into said thing but they can still use ki (Ginyu, Vegeto, Android 17,18). Genie turns Nappa into an elephant and Nappa can still use a ki blast to kill Sora.

Also Sora is not cuttin Nappa with his key-blade. Key-Blade probably breaks on contact.The Key Blade has not cut anything apart from buildings, Chatzu's self-destruction barely scathed Nappa. Sora aint cutting him.


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## Tranquil Fury (Jul 15, 2009)

1

To give a rough estimate on Nappa's speed consider Tao in RRA arc goes from mach 14-28. 

Now people are overplaying gameplay mechanics into no limits fallacy. burden of proof is on the people who say stupid things like "Reflega deflects Nappa's blast". You may as well say Reflega can reflect a planet buster back onto the caster which is NLF till proven otherwise.

Saying that "only Sora can kill heartless" is like saying not even Galactus or Silver Surfer could if they wanted. 

You need to show the Gameplay mechanic does'nt have the limit the prevents it from doing so.


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## NemeBro (Jul 15, 2009)

Irvine Kinneas said:


> lol @ shit-logic. Reflega is still considered a broken move by the OBD, until it's proven that Aqua cast Reflega that is. Get over it.
> 
> Again lol. So we are completely disregarding what the creator of the games said is canon and what isn't? Now that's shit-logic. Also, only Keyblade wielders can kill heartless.
> 
> ...



Broken is relative. What is broken in Naruto for example, is not broken in Tenchi Muyo. It's a No-Limits fallacy. Get over it.

First of all, as for the whole Keyblade wielders only being able to kill Heartless, that's funny. I must have imagined all the times Donald, Goofy, Cloud, Squall, and Sephiroth killed Heartless. They can only be PERMANENTLY killed by the Keyblade, but they can still be defeated by something less.

He's not even high-tier in the movie. Mad Jim Jaspers is a high-tier reality warper, Genie is not. But point is, Jafar would have HAD to be weakened to lost to Sora.

It's generally accepted that DMC is a good gaming series. Doesn't make it true. Reflega is broken in KHverse, should we assume it would hold up to the likes of Galactus? No, we should not, it would not be able to hold up to Nappa, let alone Galactus, saying it could withstand an above city leveling attack is a No-Limits fallacy.


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