# All Shinobis Rankings



## hbcaptain (Sep 11, 2015)

I create this thread to make a ranking of all Shinbois that we have seen since the beginning . We will adpot a pourcentage-based system , and we will make it in 9 categories :

0 to 10% : Academy student .
10 to 20% : Gennin
20 to 30% : Low/Mid Chunin 
30 to 40% : High level Chunin
40 to 50% : Low/Mid Jonin
50 to 60% : High level Jonin
60 to 70% : Low Kage
70 to 80% : Average Kage
80 to 90% : High level Kage
90 to 100% : Semi-God tier
100 to 110% : God tier

I will send many groups of Naruto characters and everyone will give score to each group , The finale  will be the average of the scores given by all members .


Right now , *the first group :*

-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage)
-First Part Haruno Sakura
-First Part Shikamaru Nara
-First Part Inozuka Kiba
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata


*Ranking :*

*God tier :*

*1-Kaguya Otsutsuki :* 110%
*2-JJ Madara (3eyed ) : *108.83%
*3-Rikudo Sasuke (with Bijuu chakra) : *107.38%
*4-Rikudo Naruto :* 107.17%
*5-Rikudou Sasuke :* 105.67%
*6-JJ Madara (one rinnegan) :* 105.00%
*7-Rikudou Kakashi :* 103.83%
*8-Red Gai : *103.58%
*9-JJ Obito :* 102.20%
*10-War Arc Madara (Alive+one rinnegan) :* 100.33%

*Semi-God tier :*

*1-Hashirama Senju :* 98.12%
*2-EMS Madara (with Kurama)* : 96.62%
*3-BSM Naruto : *96.20%
*4-Edo Madara :* 95.75%
*5-BM Minato :* 95.50%
*6-Edo Hashirama :* 94.50%
*7-EMS Madara (w/o Kurama) : *93.40%
*8-BM Naruto :* 92.00%
*9-EMS Sasuke : *91.90%
*10-KCM Minato : *91.00%
*11-Chakra Obito :* 90.50%


*High Kage tier :*

*1-KCM Naruto :* 89.17%
*2-Rinnegan+MS Obito :* 89.13%
*3-Nagato Full Power :* 87.88%
*4-Sage Kabuto :* 87.40%
*5-Namikaze Minato :*86.33%
*6-Pain :* 86.00%
*7-Healthy Itachi :* 85.50%
*8-Tobirama Senju* : 84.75%
*9-Unmastered EMS Sasuke : *84.90%
*10-Pre War Obito : *84.75%
*11-War Arc Kakashi :* 83.12%
*12-Killer Bee :* 82.75%
*13-Black&White Zetsu : *82.33%
*14-Maito Gai :* 82.20%
*15-Sick Uchiha Itachi :* 81.40%
*16-Muu :* 80.58%
*17-Black Zetsu :* 80.00%


*Mid Kage tier :*

*1-GuruguruYamato :* 79.60%
*2-Sandaime Raikage :* 79.54%
*3-Kyubi's Attack Obito : *79.13%
*4-Tendo Full Power : *78.40%
*5-Hoshigake Kisame :* 78.40%
*6-MS Sasuke :* 77.71%
*7-Pain Arc Naruto : *77.40%
*8-War Arc Orochimaru :* 77.00%
*9-Onoki :* 76.33%
*10-Gengetsu :* 76.25%
*11-Yondaime Raikage *: 75.86%
*12-Danzo Shimura w/o Shisui's Sharingan :* 75.78%
*13-Jiraya : *74.50%
*14-Yagura :* 74.00%
*15-Orochimaru (Edo Hokage + Both arms)* : 74.00%
*16-War Arc Raikage : *73.00%
*17-War Arc Gaara :* 72.93%
*18-Pain Arc Kakashi :* 72.10%
*19-Kinkaku and Ginkaku :* 71.67%
*20-Sasori :* 71.67%
*21-Kakuzu :* 71.60%
*22-War Arc Tsunade :* 71.41%
*23-Taka Sasuke :* 70.50%


*Low Kage tier :*

*1-Start of Part2 Orochimaru :* 69.00%
*2-Start of Second Part Kakashi :* 69.00%
*3-Hebi Sasuke : *67.00%
*4-Mei Terumi :* 66.63%
*5-Start of Part2 Sasuke :* 66.50%
*6-Deidara :* 66.33%
*7-Nii Yugito : *66.00%
*8-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen : *64.25%
*9-Hanzo : *64.00%
*10-Immortal Arc Naruto :* 62.60%
*11-Start of Part 2 Gaara :* 62.00%
*12-Mifune :* 61.50%
*13-Fukasaku :* 61.40% 
*14-Kinkaku w/o Rikudo tools : *61.33%
*15-Healthy Kimimaro :* 60.60%
*16-Shima : *60.00%


*High Jonin tier :*

*1-War Arc Sakura : *59.17%
*2-Konan (without preparations) :* 59.00%
*3-First Part Hatake Kakashi :* 58.75%
*4-R?shi : *58.25%
*5-Darui :* 58.00%
*6-Chiyo : *57.67%
*7-Uzumaki Kushina :* 57.25%
*8-Han : *57.13%
*9-First Part Tsunade (w/o byakugou) :*57.13%
*10-Kitsuchi : *55.92%
*11-Hidan :* 55.40%
*12-Sarutobi Asuma :* 55.00%
*13-War Arc Temrai :* 54.92%
*14-War Arc Kankuro : *54.55%
*15-Momochi Zabuza :* 54.25%
*16-First Part Kabuto *: 54.13%
*17-Sasori W/o puppets :* 53.50%
*18-Chiyo w/o puppets :* 53.38%
*19-Suigetsu :* 52.67%
*20-Yamato : *52.50%
*21-Chojuro :* 52.44%
*22-Kato Dan :* 52.08%
*23-Kimimaro Kaguya :* 51.66%
*24-Kurotsuchi : *54.42%
*25-Juugo : *51.33%
*26-Aburame Torune : *50.25%


*Low/Mid Jonin tier :*

*1-War Arc Choji :* 49.83%
*2-Fuu Yamanaka : *49.75%
*3-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 Arc) : *49.00%
*4-Akatsuchi :* 48.17%
*5-Ao :* 48.16%
*6-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end)* : 47.38%
*7-Gaiden Kakashi :* 46.67%
*8-Fuu :* 46.67%
*9-Baki :* 46.25%
*10-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) :* 45.75%
*11-Cee :* 45.62%
*12-Start of Part2 Sai : *43.25%
*13-Inuzuka Tsume : *43.25
*14-War Arc Shino : *43.00%
*15-Start of Part 2 Kankuro : *43.00%
*16-Akimichi Choza : *42.84%
*17-Start of Part2 Temari :* 42.33%
*18-Kurenai Yuhi :* 42.25%
*20-War Arc Kiba : *42.00%
*21-Raido : *41.80%
*22-War Arc Shikamaru :* 41.67%
*23-Genma Shiranui :* 41.00%
*24-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) :* 40.67%
*25-Gecko Hayate :* 40.25%
*26-Aoba : *40.00%


*High Chunin tier :*

*1-Mitarashi Anko :* 39.67%
*2-White Zetsu :* 39.17%
*3-Kakko :* 39.00%
*4-First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step)* : 38.75%
*5-Samui : *38.25%
*6-First Part Rock Lee :* 38.00%
*7-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam 2nd stage) * 37.75%
*8-Shizune : *37.33%
*9-First Part Hyuuga Neji :* 36.75%
*10-Kidomaru :* 36.67%
*11-Sakon/Ukon :* 36.50%
*12-Yugao : *36.25%
*13-Taiseki :* 36.00%
*14-Mahiru : *35.5%
*15-Haku Yuki : *35.50%
*16-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam 3rd stage) *: 34.67%
*17-Start of Shippuden Sakura :* 34.67%
*18-War Arc Ino :* 34.67%
*19-First Part Kankuro :* 32.75%
*20-First Part Temari :* 32.75%
*21-Jir?bo :* 31.92%
*22-Tayuya *: 31.67%


*Low/Mid Chunin tier :*

*1-First Part Shino : * 28.75%
*2-First Part Shikamaru Nara :* 28.67%
*3-Hebi Karin :* 27.90%
*4-Start of Part2 Tenten :* 27.67%
*5-First Part Inuzuka Kiba :* 26.67%
*6-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) :* 26.38%
*7-First Part Dosu Kinuta : * 24.75%
*8-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) : * 22.75%
*9-Meizu :* 21.00%
*9-Gozu :* 21.00%


*Genin Tier :*

*1-Zaku Abumi :* 17.33%
*2-First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage) :* 17.00%
*3-First Part Tenten :* 16.50%
*4-First Part Hyuuga Hinata :* 15.00%
*5-Kin Tsuchi : *13.00%
*6-First Part Yamanaka Ino :* 12.50%
*7-First Part Haruno Sakura :* 11.00%

_____________


*Summoning and Bijuu ranking :
*
*1-Bijuu size Katsuyu : *60.67%
*2-War Arc Gamakichi :* 53.33%
*3-Ibuse :*53.00%
*4-Gamaken :* 52.67%
*Twins giant snakes :* 41.67%


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## Mercurial (Sep 11, 2015)

-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 11, 2015)

*First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) *
*37%*
He was already at low/avarage Chunin level at the beginning of the manga when he fought Meizu and Gozu . Since then , he acquired a high level speed , good mastery of the 2 Tomoe Sharingan , plus Raikiri , maybe he can even fight and rivals low level Jonins .



*First Part Haruno Sakura *
*12%*
She can stand against Meizu and Gozu , that's all , she is at a Genin level .



*First Part Shikamaru Nara*
*30%*
He isn't strong and don't have acess to high level Jutsu , but he is extraordinally smart ,so smart that he can beat and rivals oppenents much stronger than him like Temari and Tayuya .


*First Part Inuzuka Kiba *
*25%*
He is fast for a Genin , Naruto coudn't dodge his speed and Taijutsu , he has a good smell abilities , plus powerful/fast attaks like Gatsuga in pair with Akamaru .

*First Part Hyuuga Hinata *
*15%*
Hyuuga's Taijutsu at a low level + average Genin speed and stamina .


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## Mercurial (Sep 11, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> *First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) *
> *37%*
> He was already at low/avarage Chunin level at the beginning of the manga when he fought Meizu and Gozu . Since then , he acquired a high level speed , good mastery of the 2 Tomoe Sharingan , plus Raikiri , maybe he can even fight and rivals low level Jonins .
> 
> ...


He can use Chidori, not Raikiri, that is the more powerful and refined S-rank version of the A-rank jutsu. Anyway I agree: after Kakashi's traning, Chidori + weightless Lee speed + 2 tomoe Sharingan + good taijutsu and shurikenjutsu + Katon + decent smartness put him definitely above chunin level: that's why Genma, the 3rd stage proctor, said that Sasuke was at more than chunin level from his performance vs Gaara; and he didn't know about Sasuke's Cursed Sign.

Well she couldn't stand against at all, actually. She was fodder and she needed to be saved, she would have been unable to do anything. And all she has is good genjutsu defense and good chakra control, and the basic academy level ninjutsu, but basically zero taijutsu or physical skill. I can't see a single character we know, bar kid Konoahamaru, Udon and Moegi from part 1, losing to part 1 Sakura.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 11, 2015)

Yeah it's Chidori not Raikiri , lack of attention .




			
				Raikiri19 said:
			
		

> Well she couldn't stand against at all, actually. She was fodder and she needed to be saved, she would have been unable to do anything. And all she has is good genjutsu defense and good chakra control, and the basic academy level ninjutsu, but basically zero taijutsu or physical skill. I can't see a single character we know, bar kid Konoahamaru, Udon and Moegi from part 1, losing to part 1 Sakura.


Yeah , but she is a Genin , not very strong but stronger than academy student like First Part Konohamru , udon or Moegi . so she should exceed slightly the  threshold of 10% .


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## Mercurial (Sep 11, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Yeah it's Chidori not Raikiri , lack of attention . And I think that enven without cursed seal , sasuke is not that much far from Jonin level .
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah , but she is a Genin , not very strong but stronger than academy student like First Part Konohamru , udon or Moegi . so she should exceed slightly the  threshold of 10% .



Don't worry, it can happen. And yes as I said I agree with that ranking of that version of Sasuke.

Well that's true, I'll raise her.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 11, 2015)

-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage)= *32%*
He should scraching the bottom of the next category by VOTE.
-First Part Haruno Sakura=*11%*
Just barely better than an academy student
-First Part Shikamaru Nara=*28%*
Mid chunin ability-wise
-First Part Inozuka Kiba= *30%*
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata=*15%*


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## Mider T (Sep 11, 2015)

Genin has one "n" in the middle while Chunnin has two


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## hbcaptain (Sep 12, 2015)

*First group results :*​
*First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) *
34.67%

*First Part Haruno Sakura *
11.00%

*First Part Shikamaru Nara*
28.67%

*First Part Inozuka Kiba*
26.67%

*First Part Hyuuga Hinata*
15%

A ranking will be set up in the first post of the thread and will be updated after each group .


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## hbcaptain (Sep 12, 2015)

*Groupe 2 :*​
First Part Hyuuga Neji
First Part Rock Lee
First Part Tenten
First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step) 
First Part Yamanaka Ino


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## Deer Lord (Sep 12, 2015)

First Part Hyuuga Neji= *32%*
First Part Rock Lee= *35%*
dem gates
First Part Tenten= *15%*
filler 1010 is higher tho 
First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step)= *33%*
pretty much like sauce at that point
First Part Yamanaka Ino= *15%*


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## Mider T (Sep 12, 2015)

Why did you spell group two different ways?


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## Pirao (Sep 12, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> First Part Hyuuga Neji= *33%*
> First Part Rock Lee= *35%*
> dem gates
> First Part Tenten= *15%*
> ...



Naruto weaker than Neji, who he beat without summons... right.

First Part Hyuuga Neji:                                                      35%
First Part Rock Lee:                                                           35%
First Part Tenten:                                                                15% (no feats though, so who knows really, but getting stomped by Temari doesn't look very good)
First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step) : 40%
First Part Yamanaka Ino:                                                   12%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 12, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Why did you spell group two different ways?


It's because I add the "n" to "Gennin" .


*First Part Hyuuga Neji :*
*39%*
I think he is notably stronger than 2TS Sasuke (34.67%) , he could stand against Kyubi's chakra armour 0 tails naruto ,where the Uchiha was outclassed by a lower version of him (jsut Kyubi's chakra no armour)


*First Part Rock Lee :*
*41%*
He is at the same level as Sasuke without Sharingan , he became much more faster and powerful when he opens gates espacially the fifth one , He can beat Neji I think .


*First Part Tenten*
*18%*
She easily lost to Temari but I think she is stronger than Ino and Sakura .


*First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step) *
*40%*
He can use Kyubi's chakra armor , and he became even stronger than a genius like Neji .


*First Part Yamanaka Ino*
*11%*
The same as Sakura .


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## Mercurial (Sep 12, 2015)

First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
First Part Rock Lee = 41%
First Part Tenten = 18%
First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 12, 2015)

@Raikiri19

Naruto can use Kurama's chakra armour , so he should be above Neji .


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## Mercurial (Sep 12, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> @Raikiri19
> 
> Naruto can use Kurama's chakra armour , so he should be above Neji .



If I'm not wrong Naruto can't use it when he wants, but just if damaged or emotionally instable. If he can use it at wish then I'll change my vote.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 12, 2015)

No he can do it by himself , supply: chapter 103 .


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## Mercurial (Sep 12, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> No he can do it by himself , supply: chapter 103 .



Thank you. Edited.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 13, 2015)

*Group 2 results :*​
*First Part Hyuuga Neji :*
36.75%

*First Part Rock Lee :*
38.00%

*First Part Tenten :*
16.5%

*First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step)*
38.75%

*First Part Yamanaka Ino :*
12.75%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 13, 2015)

*Groupe 3 :*

First Part Temari 
First Part Kankuro
First Part Gaara (Chunin exam 2nd part)
First Part Aburame Shino
Dosu Kinuta


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## Deer Lord (Sep 13, 2015)

First Part Temari = *38%*
First Part Kankuro = *38%*
Those are for thier SRA selves.
First Part Gaara (Chunin exam 2nd part) = *35%*
since you nerfed gaara to basically what hes shown in the lee fight.
gaara by the end of part 1 is obviously higher.
First Part Aburame Shino = *28%*
Dosu Kinuta = *20%*


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## Mercurial (Sep 13, 2015)

First Part Temari = 32%
First Part Kankuro = 32%
First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
Dosu Kinuta = 23%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 23%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## SakuraZ (Sep 13, 2015)

i think 

First Part Hyuuga Neji
First Part Rock Lee
First Part Tenten
First Part Uzumaki naruto (Chunin exam third step) 
First Part Yamanaka Ino


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## Pirao (Sep 13, 2015)

First Part Temari: 31%
First Part Kankuro: 30%
First Part Gaara (Chunin exam 2nd part) 36%
First Part Aburame Shino 29%
Dosu Kinuta 25%

That is considering Gaara without Shukaku crazyness of course, otherwise he would be way higher (Naruto with Gamabunta would be much higher for that matter, too, since he beat him)


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## hbcaptain (Sep 15, 2015)

First Part Temari: 30%
First Part Kankuro: 31%
First Part Gaara (Chunin exam 2nd part) 45%
First Part Aburame Shino 29%
Dosu Kinuta 29%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 15, 2015)

*Group 3 results :*

*First Part Temari :* 
32.75%

*First Part Kankuro :* 
32.75%

*First Part Gaara (Chunin exam part 2)*
37.50%

*First Part Aburame Shino :*
28.75%

*Dosu Kinuta :*
24.25%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 15, 2015)

*Group 4 :*​
Meizu 
First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage)
Sakon/Ukon
Jir?bo
Tayuya


Don't forget to refer to the ranking in the first post .


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## hbcaptain (Sep 15, 2015)

*Meizu :*
21%
above genin girls I think , but Sasuke at the very beginning of the manga is stronger than him .

*First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage) :*
18%
He has power but he luck brain use and he is too impulsif in reel battle .

*Sakon/Ukon :*
34.50%
The two of them are very clearly stronger than Kiba&Akamaru , their blood time limit is usefull in reel battle , even if they are sliced in half they still can fight plus a high level kicks/punches speed .

*Jir?bo :*
28.75%
A lot of physical strengh and stamina , a Doton user but he lucks brain use .

*Tayuya :*
29%
So she is a Genjutsu user , she can control 3 huge monsters by her melody , and with Kubiwa lvl2 released , she can use a reel sound offensive Genjutsu . Stronger than Shikamaru but lower than Temari .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 15, 2015)

Meizu= *20%*
First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage)=* 18%*
the super meh version of choji, got one shotted by freakin dosu.
Sakon/Ukon = *37%*
he was stronger than neji and pre-CS2 sauce at that point
Jir?bo= *35%*
Tayuya = *33%*


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## Deer Lord (Sep 15, 2015)

Also, just noticed you don't have a category to cover 50-60%
prehaps you should add a 'Borderline Kage' category in between high jonin and low kage to cover for that.


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## Mercurial (Sep 15, 2015)

Meizu= 22%
First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage)= 15%
Sakon/Ukon = 38%
Jir?bo= 32%
Tayuya = 31%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-Meizu= 22%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 15, 2015)

> Also, just noticed you don't have a category to cover 50-60%
> prehaps you should add a 'Borderline Kage' category in between high jonin and low kage to cove


Yes , thank you for the observation . I'm going to edit the first post .


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

*4th group r?sults*​
*Meizu :*
21.00%

*First Part Choji (Chunin exam 2nd stage) :*
17.00%

*Sakon/Ukon :*
36.50%

*Jir?bo :*
31.92%

*Tayuya :*
31.67%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

*Group 5 :*

Haku Yuki
First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc)
First Part Naruto (Gato Arc)
Momochi Zabuza
First Part Hatake Kakashi .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 16, 2015)

Haku Yuki = *31%*
First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = *24%*
First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = *22%*
Momochi Zabuza = *54%*
First Part Hatake Kakashi = *55%*


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

*Haku Yuki :*
35%

Haku was beaten by this Kurama version of Naruto (without chakra armour) :


Neji can rival an even stronger version (with chakra armor) :


So I think that Neji is notably stronger than Haku .

*First Part Sasuke : (Gato Arc) :*
29.5%
He was already stronger than Shino/Kiba/Shikamaru .

*First Part Naruto : (Gato Arc) :*
22%
Naruto was one of the weakest Genin at the very beginning . He can use Kage Bunshin , so he is stronger than the Genin girls .

*Momochi Zabuza :*
53%
A high level Jonin , one of the seven swordmen of Kirigakure , He can use high level Suiton Jutsu's , Kenjutsu and an assassin style combined with the Kirigakure no Jutsu . 

*First Part Hatake Kakashi :*
55%
A Sharingan user , copy ninja with more than 1000 Jutsu's , an assassin style using Raikiri , he can also use 3 elements : Raiton , Suiton and Doton . He is smart and has a large battle experience . Stronger than Zabuza .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 16, 2015)

> First Part Sasuke : (Gato Arc) :
> 29.5%
> He was already stronger than Shino/Kiba/Shikamaru .


I highly doubt that.
SRA kiba would massacre pre-speed training sasuke with that two headed wolf.

and zabuza/kakshi were not kage-level in part 1.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

No , Sasuke was the first of his class at all the disciplines , so it's a total nonsens that Kiba would easily strikes the Uchiha .

In terms of facts , Kiba has much less speed than him , Base naruto (Gato Arc) can't even see Meizu and Gozu Shunshin while he can barely see throught Kiba and Akamaru's moves .

On other hand , Kakashi and Zabuza are both top level Jonins , they are much stronger than Shizune , Genma , Raido , Kurenai ...

*Edit :* Yeah high Jonin tier are between 50 and 60 , luck of attention .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 16, 2015)

by the end of part 1 all the rookies on sasuke's rescue mission where better than sasuke at the begining of part 1  :|

as for naruto, are we including KN0 or not?


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

> by the end of part 1 all the rookies on sasuke's rescue mission where better than sasuke at the begining of part 1 :|


Neji , Lee , yeah both of them are much better . But the others no , Choji can't enven dream touching him , Sasuke has extremely more speed/agility and by far better in Taijutsu moves , Kiba and Akamaru have less speed and they only move at a straigh line Shino won' keep up with his very quick and precise moves , 

Plus , if he is the genius of his generation , it's not because of 6 months on training that they will grown stronger than him .



> as for naruto, are we including KN0 or not?


KN0 is just a passager Power Up that he couldn't use when he wants , so I just added 2% to the original mark I would give .


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## Pirao (Sep 16, 2015)

Haku Yuki: 33%
First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc): 27%
First Part Naruto (Gato Arc): 22%
Momochi Zabuza: 52%
First Part Hatake Kakashi: 55%


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## Mercurial (Sep 16, 2015)

I really don't see how people are ranking part 1 Kakashi so low, just a little above Zabuza.

Kid Kakashi pre Sharingan was fighting on par with seasoned jonin from other villages, and after receiving the Sharingan he could neg them with Chidori. So he was already far above jonin level as a kid. Growing from a kid, a the time of the Gaiden, to a young man, when he was in the Anbu, his skills enpowered to the point that his name became known, respected and feared through all over the ninja world even as only a youngster (Kakashi of the Sharingan). 

Part 1 Kabuto doesn't feel he can take on part 1 Kakashi, getting stomped in spite of favorable conditions *(1)* by Kakashi who isn't even using the Sharingan *(2)*, he has to run away, and runs away again from him even if Kakashi taunts him *()* while Kabuto was strong enough to fend off Tsunade dodging her hits for a long period of time, to the point that that waste of energy tired her, and with a soldier pill power up could humiliate her *(4)**(5)**(6)**(7)* without having killing intent *(8)* and without fighting seriously *(9)* to the point she admitted inferiority even in her best days *(10)*.  

Putting part 1 Kakashi just a bit above Zabuza doesn't make any sense. Kakashi was at least a tier above Zabuza, he overwhelmed him every time even with some difficulties. He just got the better of him in a single situation: he was cockblocked or completely outperformed all other times. they tricked themselves with bushinjutsu, Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin even blitzed Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin, but Zabuza tricked Kakashi in the end and managed to surprise him in CQC (something he will never manage to do after, on the opposite he will be always cockblocked if not negged). After that, Kakashi intercepted him easily (*11*), stopped the Kubikirihocho in CQC with a mere kunai (*12*), fought his Suiton: Suiryodan with his own Suiton: Suiryodan (*13*), midfucked him with Sharingan genjutsu (*14*), stomped him with Suiton: Daibafuku (*15*) and handed his ass to him (*16*).

In the second fight, Kakashi trolled him even if Zabuza thought to have trolled him (*17*) and then negged him dodging and blitzing him multiple times (*18*)(*19*)(*20*)(*21*), not to mention destroying him in CQC (*22*)(*23*)(*24*) (if one wants to argue that Zabuza was someway feeling down because of Haku's death, one has to prove how much, and it's worth note that Kakashi on his part was nearly exhausted, not to mention that Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin could blitz Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin (*25*) so the speed gap is undeniable).

And remember that until after the moment of the chunin exams, part 1 Kakashi was a lot out of shape for his own admission *(26)**(27)*. So what he did to that moment (like all his feats against Zabuza), he could do it much better logically. End of part 1 Kakashi who Itachi has to use the Mangekyo to defeat > start of part 1 Kakashi that still stomps Zabuza.

Part 1 Kakashi was strong enough to react and counter all Itachi's moves (ninjutsu and clone feints) in spite of their speed *()**()* to the point that Itachi had to use the Mangekyo to not dragging the fight with him, that when he perfectly knew that using the Mangekyo would have ruined his eye sight and lowered his chakra level by much. He couldn't follow Itachi's fast jutsu execution, but he could react to it showing great execution speed too, and he could perfectly understand and counter his combo, something that Hebi Sasuke couldn't do: sick Itachi could make a KB while exchanging shuriken with Sasuke and Sasuke didn't see it, and later was surprised *(30)*; a more healthy Itachi tried to feint and surprise Kakashi with bushinjutsu, but Kakashi reacted and countered with his own bushinjutsu (Kisame also noted that Kakashi was fighting pretty well) and then even understood who was the true Itachi and who was the clone, wasting his opportunity to attack Itachi because he had to save Kurenai from Bunshin Daibakuha. I mean, this shows how Part 1 Kakashi's reflexes and jutsu skills were above the ones of Hebi Sasuke in Shippuden. Part 1 Kakashi was said to be a very difficult match for Kisame *()* (and it's not like Kishimoto didn't think about Kisame's strength because Itachi said to him do not ever use his "big flashy jutsu", clearly referring to things like Dai Bakusoi Shoha, Senshokuko and Daikodan he showed in Shippuden) and Kisame referred to him as a worthy opponent *(32)* compared to Asuma that he was fighting previously. Part 1 Kakashi was said to be Konoha's number one ninja by the 1st databook (yeah, better than old 3rd Hokage, deal with it... i can only give you and italian scan *()* but if you search on Internet you can find the english one too) and Konoha's better ninjutsu master *()* (yeah, better than old 3rd Hokage, deal with it). 

The Sharingan allows Kakashi to preempt movements and jutsu, to copy and utilize on the fly the enemy's ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu, to defend and attack with visual genjutsu (strong enough to mindrape Zabuza and to have Itachi not even try to use 3T Sharingan but immediately use the MS with Tsukuyomi). Part 1 Kakashi, already famous all over the world for his usage of the Sharingan, had mastered his 3T Sharingan to the point that Itachi was impressed and acknowledged Kakashi's skill as better than even pure blood Uchiha clan members *()*. Kakashi could do Kage Bunshin no jutsu, and showed he could execute powerful Suiton ninjutsu as Suiryodan and even Daibafuku. Imagine if Kakashi makes a KB and then a combo, one does Daibafuku and the other streams Raikiri in the water current: pretty good combo I'd say, Kakashi then can follow with Raikiri, or Rasengan. Kakashi could open at least the 1st Gate *(36)*, powering up his speed and strength, already on really good levels (as Kakashi can stop Zabuza's Kubikirihocho with just a mere kunai and spars in taijutsu with Gai and has speed enough to outperform completely Kabuto and Zabuza and to block a Chidori vs Rasengan clash between Naruto and Sasuke and to react and counter Itachi's attacks better than Hebi Sasuke). With a really high level of speed and Sharingan precognition, even if part 1 Kakashi had low stamina (he could still use the Sharingan plus four time the Raikiri), Shunshin + Raikiri was already a strong S-rank asset, in combo with high level taijutsu, Sharingan genjutsu, Rasengan, Kage Bunshin skilled and quick feints, powerful Suiton like Daikodan and Suiryodan, Doryuheki and Suijinheki defense, Doton underground fast hiding and moving (something that, albeit that will be in Shippuden, Kakashi managed to use even against Pain and Itachi), a versatile arsenal of more than 1000 jutsu. Kakashi is maybe the smartest fighter in the manga, his tactical and analytical skill is incredible. His weaknesses were not having over-the-roof raw power, not having special hax, and having really low chakra levels for a high level shinobi.

Based on feats and hype, part 1 Kakashi was already a hella strong ninja, really skilled, on low spectrum of S-rank/kage level. He had some great qualities but sure he had the drawbacks of having a really low stamina, but in that time he had the skill to kill strong people. Of course he had a long way to reassure his real level and upgrade it to what he showed in Shippuden and even more in the War Arc.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 16, 2015)

Well, I guess this was to be expected.


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## Mercurial (Sep 16, 2015)

Because I posted my fanfiction based on nothing, not canon feats with manga/databook links and references. Yeah.


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## Deer Lord (Sep 16, 2015)

I don't recall I made a refrence to anything you wrote.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 16, 2015)

@Raikiri :

First Part Kakashi and Zabuza are both at the same level ,:
At close range , Kakashi barely had time to activate his Sharingan :


Kakashi got dominated when he activated his hidden mist :

*Spoiler*: __ 










*Spoiler*: __ 








Kakashi defeated Zabuza in Taijutsu only because he was wounded by that Jutsu :


And Kakashi confirm what I said _you can't beat be in your CURRENT State ._



Against Akatsuki , Itachi never wanted to fight seriously against his former comrades , the databook agree with this : 

And even without fighting seriously , Kakashi could *barely [/B counter his moves and Jutsu using Sharingan .

So , Kakashi is not yet a Kage level , ninjas like Mei Terumi or the fourth Kazekage are notably stronger than him . Plus two of the three sannin places him at the same level of First Part Kabuto . Despite of all , I think I little underestimate him , I have raise slightly his mark .*


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## Mercurial (Sep 16, 2015)

-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Momochi Zabuza = 58%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Momochi Zabuza = 58%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%






hbcaptain said:


> @Raikiri :
> 
> First Part Kakashi and Zabuza are both at the same level ,:
> At close range , Kakashi barely had time to activate his Sharingan :
> ...


*

Definitely not. You forgot (I hope you aren't conveniently forgetting that, aren't you?) that Kakashi purposely let Zabuza touch him to have his blood on Zabuza's weapons so that his ninja dogs could easily find him (1). Out of that, Kakashi dodged Zabuza easily every single time bar once, blitzed him many times (even Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin blitzed Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin, hence the speed gap is undebatable really), stopped Zabuza's giant sword with a fucking mere kunai, mindfucked him with the Sharingan, stomped him with his Suiton: Daibafuku, outperformed him in taijutsu making his arms useless, outsmarted him and countered the Kirigakure no jutsu. Out of that fail at the beginning of the first fight, when he undervalued him and payed the price, Kakashi literally stomped Zabuza. 

And the Kakashi that fought with Zabuza was out of shape and a lot weaker than the Kakashi at the end of part 1: just compare Wave Arc (or Gato Arc as you call it) Kakashi losing his consciousness because he used the Sharingan for some time, a Sharingan genjutsu, a Mizu Bunshin and Suiton: Suiryodan and Suiton: Daibafuku, or being very tired because he used the Sharingan for some time, summoned his ninja dogs, used Raikiri once and then used Tajuu Kage Bunshin no jutsu (which he said he couldn't mantain for long) with end of part 1 Kakashi that can use the Sharingan plus four times Raikiri.

And you say that Kakashi easily outclassed Zabuza because Zabuza was wounded: Zabuza is someone that can still fight with those wounds, his arms wounded and made useless, and many swords and blades piercing his body. Not to mention that Kakashi was exhausted too when he blitzed Zabuza, just remember that some minutes after that he used Tajuu Kage Bunshin but says that can't mantain it for long because he is too tired. Not to mention that when both were fresh, in the first fight, Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin was blitzed by Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin and the clones are equally weakened version of the originals.

So he doesn't want to kill them. But actually if Kakashi didn't save her, Kurenai would have had a clone exploding on her face. And if Kakashi didn't react and counter that, Itachi would have pierced his heart from behind. And in the end, Itachi left Kakashi in comatose state. Itachi killed his own brethren, even his father and mother. Do you really think he could care about killing some old comrades? He said "I don't want to kill you" because he preferred not to fight if possibile, so he hoped they would simply let him pass without trying to putting up a fight. He clearly showed that he was trying to kill them. And to defeat Kakashi, he had to resort to Mangekyo Sharingan, willingly ruining his own eye sight and losing a lot of chakra, something he would have avoided if he could: and 3T Itachi without using the Mangekyo would stomp a lot of S-rank/kage levels.

Yeah, as I said, Kakashi could only defend himself. But that's impressive, since most of S-rank/kage levels wouldn't be able to defend from Itachi like that. Hebi Sasuke wasn't able to tell that Itachi cloned himself and to counter that, while part 1 Kakashi was able to recognize that and counter that. Kisame was said to find a very difficult match, that he wouldn't come out unscathed, against part 1 Kakashi. Kisame would murk either Mei Terumi or the 4th Kazekage. The 1st databook says that part 1 Kakashi is Konoha's best ninja and in the manga he is called Konoha's best jutsu master, both things hyping him above the old 3rd Hokage. And we are talking about someone that has really low stamina and not great hax or raw power, yeah, but still mastered 3T Sharingan (genjutsu, precognition), 1000 jutsu, great speed and taijutsu, Raikiri, Rasengan, Kage Bunshin feints on par with Itachi, great smartness. Great hype. He is S-rank/kage level even in part 1. Obviously not one of the strongest, clearly, but he is.*


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## Deer Lord (Sep 17, 2015)

Are we like, ignoring that kakashi was locked in the woner ball by zabuza?
Terrified of facing orochimaru?
Ignored by the village elders when they were looking for someone to replace hiruzen?
Stomped by itachi?
Compared to kabuto by two sannin?

He's not kage-level in part 1, no matter how much you stretch it.

Raikiri19, I generally respect your opinions. except when it comes to kakashi
because then all logic flies out the window.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 17, 2015)

*Group 5 results :*

*Haku Yuki :*
35.50%

*First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) :*
26.38%

*First Part Naruto (Gato Arc):* 
22.25%

*Momochi Zabuza :*
54.25%

*First Part Hatake Kakashi :*
58.75%


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## Cromer (Sep 17, 2015)

Mider T said:


> Genin has one "n" in the middle while Chunnin has two



...

If you're going to be smug and condescending while correcting someone, at least be certain you're correct yourself.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 17, 2015)

*Group 6 :*

Kimimaro Kaguya
Kidomaru
Mitarashi Anko
First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) 
Shizune


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## Deer Lord (Sep 17, 2015)

I'll split the ranking of sick and healthy kimimaro cause there is quite a difference.

Sick kimimaro = 46%
Healthy/Edo kimimaro = 51%
Kidomaru = 36%
Gaara (SRA) = 44%
Anko / Shizune = 40% 
willing to grant them the bare minimum of jonin level l.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 17, 2015)

> I'll split the ranking of sick and healthy kimimaro cause there is quite a difference.


Yes , it's sick Kimimaro , the one that fought Naruto , Lee and Gaara .


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## Mercurial (Sep 17, 2015)

Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
Kidomaru = 37%
Mitarashi Anko = 33%
First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
Shizune = 30%



Deer Lord said:


> Are we like, ignoring that kakashi was locked in the woner ball by zabuza?
> Terrified of facing orochimaru?
> Ignored by the village elders when they were looking for someone to replace hiruzen?
> Stomped by itachi?
> ...



I'd ignore that when on the other part Kakashi outsmarted Zabuza and overcame his Kirigakure no jutsu having him beaten, stopped his giant sword swing with a mere kunai, dodged/stomped him in taijutsu even rendering his arm useless, blitzed him, mindraped him with Sharingan genjutsu, stomped him with Suiton: Daibafuku. Kakashi had some difficulties at the beginning of both the fights, but after that he still stomped Zabuza without much trouble. And that Kakashi was out of shape, as part 1 Kakashi was out of shape until the Konoha invasion/chunin exam 3rd stage.

And yet he wasn't terrified to fight both Kisame and Itachi by himself. Let's not forget that Kakashi was out of shape when he met Orochimaru anyway.

It wasn't ignored: they asked Jiraiya (who at the time was undoubtely stronger than Kakashi) and Jiraiya refuted and immediately talked about Tsunade. They agreed and that's all. Since (when Sarutobi as the 3rd Hokage is still around) manga calls Kakashi as Konoha's best jutsu master and databook calls him as Konoha's best shinobi, they wouldn't have any problem in taking him as Hokage.

Itachi needed the Mangekyo to defeat Kakashi, Itachi would defeat a lot of S-rank/kage levels without needing to use the Mangekyo. 3TS vs 3TS Kakashi was countering Itachi's moves hit on hit and even saving Kurenai's pretty but slow ass. Not to mention part 1 Kakashi being depicted as a very tough match for Kisame. Most S-rank/kage levels aren't tough matches for Kisame.

Compared by two people who didn't know anything about him since they were far from the village from a long time, one that didn't even know who Kabuto was? How can a statement about A and B made by a person that doesn't know neither A o B hold weight, when feats show completely different things (Kakashi having much better jutsu and feats and Kabuto running away from Kakashi admitting that he prefers not fighting him, even if Kakashi taunts and challenges him)?

I'm just talking about feats and statements. I never even once posted a theory or a personal idea, only compared manga feats. I don't know what to say to you if you don't like that.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 18, 2015)

Kimimaro Kaguya = 55%
Kidomaru = 37%
Mitarashi Anko = 46%
First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 55%
Shizune = 42%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 18, 2015)

*Group 6 results :*

*Kimimaro Kaguya :*
51.66%

*Kidomaru :*
36.67%

*Mitarashi Anko :*
39.67%

*First Part Gaara (Sound 5 Arc) :*
49.00%

*Shizune :*
37.33%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 18, 2015)

*Group 7 :*

First Part Kabuto :
First Part Tsunade : (without Byakogo no Jutsu)
Genma Shiranui
Gecko Hayate
Baki


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## Pirao (Sep 18, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
> Kidomaru = 37%
> Mitarashi Anko = 33%
> First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
> Shizune = 30%



Shizune, a confirmed Jounin, is mid chunin level... ok dude


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## Deer Lord (Sep 18, 2015)

Kabuto= 53%
Tsunade= 63%
Genma/Hayate= 40%
Baki= 41%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 18, 2015)

*First Part Kabuto : *
55.50%
He is at the same level of Kakashi , he is smart , a skilled medical ninja who  can even regenerate , he attack ennemis using cleverly Doton and chakra scalpel . He has a good adaptation to every situation .

*First Part Tsunade (without Byakogou no Jutsu) :*
56.50%
She was rusty in firt part , beeing inactive for several years has a huge impact on her level . However , I think she is slightly stronger than First Part Kabuto . 

*Genma Shiranui : *
41.00%
Minato's elite guard .

*Gecko Hayate : *
41.00%

*Baki :*
50.00%
Strongest Suna's Jonin in the first part , he has a good mastery of Futon Jutsus .


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## Mercurial (Sep 18, 2015)

First Part Kabuto = 54%
First Part Tsunade = 50%
Genma Shiranui = 45%
Gekko Hayate = 40%
Baki = 44%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Momochi Zabuza = 58%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## DavyChan (Sep 18, 2015)

first part kabuto = 34%
first part tsunade (w/o byakugou) = 59%
genma shiranui = 38%
gekko hayate = 40%
baki = 50%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 19, 2015)

DavyChan said:
			
		

> first part kabuto = 34%


Kabuto is a Jonin at Kakashi's level .


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## Mercurial (Sep 19, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Kabuto is a Jonin at Kakashi's level .



Kabuto was compared to Kakashi by two people who didn't know anything about him since they were far from the village from a long time, one that didn't even know who Kabuto was. How can a statement about A and B made by a person that doesn't know neither A o B hold weight, when feats show completely different things (Kakashi having much better jutsu and feats and Kabuto running away from Kakashi admitting that he prefers not fighting him, even if Kakashi taunts and challenges him)? This is how Kabuto (an arrogant person) feels himself equal to Kakashi and this is how Kakashi (a modest person) feels himself equal to Kabuto:


*Spoiler*: __ 



​



But yeah, I agree with you that part 1 Kabuto would have definitely deserved more and more. Anyway, everyone is free to vote as he feels to. If people started to change their votes because of other people's ones, that would be the end of the ranking I think. For example, if I vote character X with 80, you feel that it's too much and vote 60 just to purposely down the results, and I see that and edit my vote to 85 just to counter what you did... that doesn't make sense to me.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 19, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:
			
		

> But yeah, I agree with you that part 1 Kabuto would have definitely deserved more and more. Anyway, everyone is free to vote as he feels to. If people started to change their votes because of other people's ones, that would be the end of the ranking I think. For example, if I vote character X with 80, you feel that it's too much and vote 60 just to purposely down the results, and I see that and edit my vote to 85 just to counter what you did... that doesn't make sense to me.


Kabuto is someone suspicious and very smart , we don't know what is he thinking about he is always laughing , so to me this scene doesn't make a comparaison between the two of them . Plus he has many feats tdefending himself , he can keep up with a sannin and even hirt her , he can regenerate , every move is greatly calculated and uses Jutsus very efficiently and quickly .



> But yeah, I agree with you that part 1 Kabuto would have definitely deserved more and more. Anyway, everyone is free to vote as he feels to. If people started to change their votes because of other people's ones, that would be the end of the ranking I think. For example, if I vote character X with 80, you feel that it's too much and vote 60 just to purposely down the results, and I see that and edit my vote to 85 just to counter what you did... that doesn't make sense to me.


That's why I asked for an explenation , Kabuto at 34%.... Since when he is weaker than First Part Sasuke without CS , the four of sound , First Part Neji ... seriously , it's a troll . It's like making someone like Jiraya and Kurenai at the same level .


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## DavyChan (Sep 19, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Kabuto is someone suspicious and very smart , we don't know what is he thinking about he is always laughing , so to me this scene doesn't make a comparaison between the two of them . Plus he has many feats tdefending himself , he can keep up with a sannin and even hirt her , he can regenerate , every move is greatly calculated and uses Jutsus very efficiently and quickly .
> 
> 
> That's why I asked for an explenation , Kabuto at 34%.... Since when he is weaker than First Part Sasuke without CS , the four of sound , First Part Neji ... seriously , it's a troll . It's like making someone like Jiraya and Kurenai at the same level .



kabuto was never ever shown to be strong. the only feat he ever had was attacking tsunade who was so memorized and was so out of commission that she was practically useless. kabuto was not strong. henceforth why orochimaru never let him do shit. and even after the timeskip he didnt do sht in the beginning of shippuden and got bested by sakura-chan, who was low jonin level at the time.


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## Mercurial (Sep 19, 2015)

DavyChan said:


> kabuto was never ever shown to be strong. the only feat he ever had was attacking tsunade who was so memorized and was so out of commission that she was practically useless. kabuto was not strong. henceforth why orochimaru never let him do shit. and even after the timeskip he didnt do sht in the beginning of shippuden and got bested by sakura-chan, who was low jonin level at the time.



Actually, Kabuto's flying ass was enough to KO Sakura. And Kabuto was very strong and skilled, not to mention cunning and smart. Obviously not above certain levels, but still an elite jonin level shinobi.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 19, 2015)

Kabuto was told to be at the same level of Kakashi by two sannins , plus Orochimaru said he was strong , then he is below First Part Neji , Sasuke , Kidomaru , Sakon/Ukon . The man who can beat a Jonin level (Shizune) in One clean Shot , who can rivals a sannin . Excuse me , but , Kabuto under 50% is just a total nonsens and totaly ridiculous with what we saw from him .

Plus Minato can see throught Yagai moves , Juubi Jin aren't that fast .


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## t0xeus (Sep 20, 2015)

P1 Kabuto is like 55%, he got outplotted by Naruto, but otherwise he was holding his own against a Sannin and Shizune, that is something that not even Asuma would be able to do.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 20, 2015)

@*DavyChan	*

I am not counting your Kabuto 's mark , Orochimaru himself acknowledge his strengh , plus a Chunnin level will never be able to hold a sannin , even for 1 second . Generally I respect people's opinion , but tou are just trolling right now .

Plus Kabuto was able to hirt Tsunade....

*Groupe 7 results :*

*First Part Kabuto :*
54.17%

*First Part Tsunade (w/o byakugou) :*
57.13%

*Genma Shiranui :*
41.00%

*Gecko Hayate :*
40.25%

*Baki :*
46.25%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 20, 2015)

*Group 8 :*

First Part Naruto (valley of the end)
First Part Sasuke (valley of the end)
First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms)
First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen
Kurenai Yuhi


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## t0xeus (Sep 20, 2015)

P1 Naruto: 45% (I really think VotE was plot-fight overall, Naruto had only Rasengan and KB back then, he can't hold his own because of his no diversity in his jutsu arsenal)
P1 Sasuke: 50% (3 tomoe sharingan and Chidori is enough to be put there, but he also has some fodder katons which is a bonus)
P1 Orochimaru: 70% (ET + good CQC to hold his own against Hiruzen for a moment + handy kawarimi jutsus)
P1 Hiruzen: 75% (Although not in his top form, he still deserves to be in at least average kage section because of his great arsenal and Enma)
Kurenai: 45% (She showed us just a fodder genjutsu that got reversed on her by Itachi's mere Sharingan and she's just a weak woman after all  ).


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## hbcaptain (Sep 20, 2015)

t0xeus said:
			
		

> P1 Orochimaru: 60%


Orochimaru has both arms and can summon First Part Edo Hashirama and Tobirama .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 20, 2015)

Naruto: 42%
Sasuke: 42%
Orochimaru: 75%
Hiruzen: 61%
Kurenai: 41%


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## t0xeus (Sep 20, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Orochimaru has both arms and can summon First Part Edo Hashirama and Tobirama .



Yeah, I noticed it just now, edited the first post and wrote details about everyone.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 20, 2015)

*First Part Naruto (valley of the end) :*
50%
KB + He can use Kyubi's chakra on purpose , he can control KN1 chakra armour , so his speed is extremely boosted , if we add rasengan and chakra arms , he is defintly a high level Jonin . Even Orochimaru can't react to his very quick moves .

*First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) :*
50.50%
3 TS Sharingan , high speed/Taijutsu , Katon and Chidori , he can easily beat KN0 Naruto in his base mode , if he use CS2 he can even rivals KN1 and beat him . First Part Gaara is under-scored I think .

*Orochimaru (Edo Tensei + both arms) :*
79%
He is himsel an average Kage level , he uses a lot Kawarimi no Jutsu and it's variants , Kusanagi sword , powerful summonings , plus hydra his ultimate Jutsu . Then we add two low Kage levels at Edo Tensei mode , witch allows him to almost reach high Kage level .

*First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen :*
67%
A CQC Kage specialist using Enma as a sword and fiel , he can use high level elementary Jutsu's just like Kakuzu , very smart , lot of experience but he has grown old , his chakra level is low , plus his physical abilities has highly decreased ,  I think a sannin is stronger than his old version .

*Kurenai Yuhi :*
47%
A Jonin , Genjutsu specialist , she is stronger than Genma and Hayate .


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## Mercurial (Sep 20, 2015)

First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 54%
Kurenai Yuhi = 36%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

*First Part Naruto (valley of the end) :*
45.75%

*First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) :*
47.38%

*Orochimaru (ET+both arms) :*
74.00%

*First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen :*
64.25%

*Kurenai Yuhi :*
42.25%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

*Group 9 :*

First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) :
Yugao :
Aoba :
Start of Shippuden Sakura :
Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) :


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## Deer Lord (Sep 21, 2015)

First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) : *34%*
Yugao : featless
Aoba : *40%*
Start of Shippuden Sakura : *41%*
Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) : *42%*


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## hbcaptain (Sep 21, 2015)

*First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) :*
32%
A little more than Jir?bo , he is definitly stronger in butterfly mode , but it has many harmful effects .

*Yugao :*
36.5%
She is an elite anbu/Jonin but I think Anko is stronger because of her hype (she leads other anbu) .

*Aoba :*
36%
He is a Tokubetsu Jonin , I think Yugao is stronger than him .

*Start of Shippuden Sakura : *
31%
She gained strengh , speed , Taijutsu , and medical ninjutsu , she is a Chunin level but stay too slow to react and move , Yamato is far beyond her level . KN0 Naruto can easily beat her , same for First Part Neji and Haku when he use Hyouton .
Also Jonins like Anku , Kurenai are stronger than her .

*Start of Shippuden Naruto :*
35%
Like Sakura he is pretty slow , but he can use clones to balance that . He can use rasengan , a Jutsu with high destrctive power .
Haku still stronger than him without Kyubi's chakra .


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

I am waitinf for your marks *Raikiri *.


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## Mercurial (Sep 22, 2015)

First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
Yugao = 36%
Aoba = 44%
Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

*Group 9 results :*

*First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) :*
34.33%

*Yugao :*
36.25%

*Aoba :*
40.00%

*Start of Shippuden Sakura :*
34.67%

*Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) :*
40.67%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

*Group 10 :*

Zaku Abumi 
Kin Tsuchi
SS Gaara
Deidara
SS Kankuro


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## Deer Lord (Sep 22, 2015)

Zaku Abumi= *18%*
he's a genin basically. nothing special.
Kin Tsuchi = *12%*
Sakura level trash.
SS Gaara= *63%*
I'm guessing this is kazekage gaara?
Well, he's kage level for sure, plus he only lost to deidara because deidara was essentially cheating.
Had he been able to release shukaku he'd beat deidara.
Deidara = *61%*
I really don't think so highly of deidara, and I reckon most low-kage can beat him on neutral settings.
he had prep and cheating on his side vs gaara and still lost an arm, so yeah...
SS Kankuro= *46%*
I would imagine he's around the level of Baki at that point.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

*Zaku Abumi :*
15%
I think Choji and Tenten are both stronger than him .

*Kin Tsuchi :*
14%
She lost to Shikamaru .

*SS Gaara :*
60%
He fought Deidara with huge sand quantities in his arrounds , his Jutu's range and power are much stronger than normal . Deidara only fights to capture him not kill him , he didn't use the C4  and the C3 was launched on the village not directly on him , plus he had only less clay quantities . I think Gaara was the lowest Kage tier at that time .

*Deidara : *
65%
He has impressive attacks , C1 and C2 to analyse the ennemy , C3 for the massive destrction and the C4 to completely disintegrate his ennemy , and of course not forgetting his clay clones and his ability of flying . 

*SS Kankuro :*
41.5%
Jonin level .


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## Mercurial (Sep 22, 2015)

What does SS mean?


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## hbcaptain (Sep 22, 2015)

Start of Shippuden .


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## Mercurial (Sep 22, 2015)

Oh perfect then. Anyway I would have used "Start of Part 2", I think it's clearer


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## DavyChan (Sep 22, 2015)

who are these people.. wth


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## Mercurial (Sep 22, 2015)

Zaku Abumi = 19%
Kin Tsuchi = 13%
Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
Deidara = 73%
Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Deidara = 73%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

*Group 10 results :*

*Zaku Abumi :*
17.33%

*Kin Tsuchi :*
13.00%

*Start of Part 2 Gaara :*
62.00%

*Deidara :*
66.33%

*Start of Part 2 Kankuro :*
43.00%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

*Group 11 :*

Start of Part 2 Temari
Chiyo
Start of Part 2 Kakashi
Sasori
Start of Part 2 Tenten


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## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

Start of part 2 Kakashi means that you're going to vote Start of Part 2 Kakashi ,Immortals Arc Kakashi, Pain Arc Kakashi, Gokage meeting Arc Kakashi and War Arc Kakashi or just Start of Part 2 Kakashi, Part 2 Kakashi pre War Arc and War Arc Kakashi?


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

Kakashi Versus Deidara .


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## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Kakashi Versus Deidara .



And how will you vote the other versions of Kakashi? I need to know that to vote him higher or lower


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

> And how will you vote the other versions of Kakashi? I need to know that to vote him higher or lower


We will vote :
-Kakashi vs Deidara .
-War Arc Kakashi

The lower and the most powerfull MS version .


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## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> We will vote :
> -Kakashi vs Deidara .
> -War Arc Kakashi
> 
> The lower and the most powerfull MS version .



Wouldn't be better to vote like this:

- Start of Part 2 Kakashi (Kazekage Rescue Arc, Immortals Arc)
- Mid Part 2 Kakashi (Pain Arc, Gokage Meeting Arc)
- War Arc Kakashi


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## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

Then yeah , if you want .


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## Vice (Sep 23, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
> -First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
> -Momochi Zabuza = 54%
> -First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 54%





What in part 1 ever indicated that Kakashi was Sannin-level or that much better than Hiruzen or Zabuza?

I'm a Kakashi fan, but this wank is absurd.


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## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Then yeah , if you want .



Well I think it's better since it covers all his versions with just three votes.

Also I would vote only a single version for Shippuden Tenten, she is so irrelevant that I heavily doubt her War Arc version is really better than her Start of Part 2 version. Out of the Rikudo tools.



Vice said:


> What in part 1 ever indicated that Kakashi was Sannin-level or that much better than Hiruzen or Zabuza?
> 
> I'm a Kakashi fan, but this wank is absurd.



Sannin level doesn't exist. Since Jiraiya and Orochimaru are more or less equals (even if Orochimaru's power level jumps if he manages to summon the Edo Tensei) and at least a tier above Tsunade. It's like kage level: Mei Terumi is as kage level as Hashirama... yeah not.

Out of that, I'm not wanking anyone. These are facts.

Kid Kakashi pre Sharingan was fighting on par with seasoned jonin from other villages, and after receiving the Sharingan he could neg them with Chidori. So he was already far above jonin level as a kid. Growing from a kid, a the time of the Gaiden, to a young man, when he was in the Anbu, his skills enpowered to the point that his name became known, respected and feared through all over the ninja world even as only a youngster (Kakashi of the Sharingan). 

Part 1 Kabuto doesn't feel he can take on part 1 Kakashi, getting stomped in spite of favorable conditions *(1)* by Kakashi who isn't even using the Sharingan *(2)*, he has to run away, and runs away again from him even if Kakashi taunts him *()* while Kabuto was strong enough to fend off Tsunade dodging her hits for a long period of time, to the point that that waste of energy tired her, and with a soldier pill power up could humiliate her *(4)**(5)**(6)**(7)* without having killing intent *(8)* and without fighting seriously *(9)* to the point she admitted inferiority even in her best days *(10)*.  

Putting part 1 Kakashi just a bit above Zabuza doesn't make any sense. Kakashi was at least a tier above Zabuza, he overwhelmed him every time even with some difficulties. He just got the better of him in a single situation: he was cockblocked or completely outperformed all other times. they tricked themselves with bushinjutsu, Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin even blitzed Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin, but Zabuza tricked Kakashi in the end and managed to surprise him in CQC (something he will never manage to do after, on the opposite he will be always cockblocked if not negged). After that, Kakashi intercepted him easily (*11*), stopped the Kubikirihocho in CQC with a mere kunai (*12*), fought his Suiton: Suiryodan with his own Suiton: Suiryodan (*13*), midfucked him with Sharingan genjutsu (*14*), stomped him with Suiton: Daibafuku (*15*) and handed his ass to him (*16*).

In the second fight, Kakashi trolled him even if Zabuza thought to have trolled him (*17*) and then negged him dodging and blitzing him multiple times (*18*)(*19*)(*20*)(*21*), not to mention destroying him in CQC (*22*)(*23*)(*24*) (if one wants to argue that Zabuza was someway feeling down because of Haku's death, one has to prove how much, and it's worth note that Kakashi on his part was nearly exhausted, not to mention that Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin could blitz Zabuza's Mizu Bunshin (*25*) so the speed gap is undeniable).

And remember that until after the moment of the chunin exams, part 1 Kakashi was a lot out of shape for his own admission *(26)**(27)*. So what he did to that moment (like all his feats against Zabuza), he could do it much better logically. End of part 1 Kakashi who Itachi has to use the Mangekyo to defeat > start of part 1 Kakashi that still stomps Zabuza.

Part 1 Kakashi was strong enough to react and counter all Itachi's moves (ninjutsu and clone feints) in spite of their speed *()**()* to the point that Itachi had to use the Mangekyo to not dragging the fight with him, that when he perfectly knew that using the Mangekyo would have ruined his eye sight and lowered his chakra level by much. He couldn't follow Itachi's fast jutsu execution, but he could react to it showing great execution speed too, and he could perfectly understand and counter his combo, something that Hebi Sasuke couldn't do: sick Itachi could make a KB while exchanging shuriken with Sasuke and Sasuke didn't see it, and later was surprised *(30)*; a more healthy Itachi tried to feint and surprise Kakashi with bushinjutsu, but Kakashi reacted and countered with his own bushinjutsu (Kisame also noted that Kakashi was fighting pretty well) and then even understood who was the true Itachi and who was the clone, wasting his opportunity to attack Itachi because he had to save Kurenai from Bunshin Daibakuha. I mean, this shows how Part 1 Kakashi's reflexes and jutsu skills were above the ones of Hebi Sasuke in Shippuden. Part 1 Kakashi was said to be a very difficult match for Kisame *()* (and it's not like Kishimoto didn't think about Kisame's strength because Itachi said to him do not ever use his "big flashy jutsu", clearly referring to things like Dai Bakusoi Shoha, Senshokuko and Daikodan he showed in Shippuden) and Kisame referred to him as a worthy opponent *(32)* compared to Asuma that he was fighting previously. Part 1 Kakashi was said to be Konoha's number one ninja by the 1st databook (yeah, better than old 3rd Hokage, deal with it... i can only give you and italian scan *()* but if you search on Internet you can find the english one too) and Konoha's better ninjutsu master *()* (yeah, better than old 3rd Hokage, deal with it). 

The Sharingan allows Kakashi to preempt movements and jutsu, to copy and utilize on the fly the enemy's ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu, to defend and attack with visual genjutsu (strong enough to mindrape Zabuza and to have Itachi not even try to use 3T Sharingan but immediately use the MS with Tsukuyomi). Part 1 Kakashi, already famous all over the world for his usage of the Sharingan, had mastered his 3T Sharingan to the point that Itachi was impressed and acknowledged Kakashi's skill as better than even pure blood Uchiha clan members *()*. Kakashi could do Kage Bunshin no jutsu, and showed he could execute powerful Suiton ninjutsu as Suiryodan and even Daibafuku. Imagine if Kakashi makes a KB and then a combo, one does Daibafuku and the other streams Raikiri in the water current: pretty good combo I'd say, Kakashi then can follow with Raikiri, or Rasengan. Kakashi could open at least the 1st Gate *(36)*, powering up his speed and strength, already on really good levels (as Kakashi can stop Zabuza's Kubikirihocho with just a mere kunai and spars in taijutsu with Gai and has speed enough to outperform completely Kabuto and Zabuza and to block a Chidori vs Rasengan clash between Naruto and Sasuke and to react and counter Itachi's attacks better than Hebi Sasuke). With a really high level of speed and Sharingan precognition, even if part 1 Kakashi had low stamina (he could still use the Sharingan plus four time the Raikiri), Shunshin + Raikiri was already a strong S-rank asset, in combo with high level taijutsu, Sharingan genjutsu, Rasengan, Kage Bunshin skilled and quick feints, powerful Suiton like Daikodan and Suiryodan, Doryuheki and Suijinheki defense, Doton underground fast hiding and moving (something that, albeit that will be in Shippuden, Kakashi managed to use even against Pain and Itachi), a versatile arsenal of more than 1000 jutsu. Kakashi is maybe the smartest fighter in the manga, his tactical and analytical skill is incredible. His weaknesses were not having over-the-roof raw power, not having special hax, and having really low chakra levels for a high level shinobi, so he was really strong but not over a certain range.

Based on feats and hype, part 1 Kakashi was already a hella strong ninja, really skilled, on low spectrum of S-rank/kage level. He had some great qualities but sure he had the drawbacks of having a really low stamina, but in that time he had the skill to kill strong people. Of course he had a very long way to reassure his real level and to reach a level when he could contend with the top dogs, for that there is what he showed in Shippuden and even more in the War Arc.


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 23, 2015)

Start of Part 2 Temari= *43%*
Same as kankuro.
Chiyo= *59%*
top class jonin.
Start of Part 2 Kakashi= *59%*
Unmastered kamui doesn't actually add all that much over what he had in P1.
Plus rakiri19 is gonna give a ridiculously wanked mark that would skew the average upwards so I might as well try to balance it out.
Sasori= *73%*
Start of Part 2 Tenten= *28%*
weak sauce.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

> Also I would vote only a single version for Shippuden Tenten, she is so irrelevant that I heavily doubt her War Arc version is really better than her Start of Part 2 version. Out of the Rikudo tools.


Yeah we will vote War arc Tenten with rikudo Tool she used against Kakuzu .


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Start of Part 2 Kakashi= *59%*
> *Unmastered kamui doesn't actually add all that much over* what he had in P1.
> Plus rakiri19 is gonna give a ridiculously wanked mark that would skew the average upwards so I might as well try to balance it out.




*Spoiler*: __ 







​




*Spoiler*: __ 



​



Yeah nothing at all. 

Also let's conveniently forget the fact that with two years of training he is now in perfect shape, able to use the Sharingan and a lot of ninjutsu for an entire night of fighting/training against Naruto and Sakura, and that he is able to use the Mangekyo for three times (while not being an Uchiha and so spending far more chakra than an Uchiha normally would, and the Mangekyo takes a lot of chakra anyway even for Uchiha blood shinobi). While in part 1 at best he could use four Raikiri. And if this Kakashi is as I said "start of part 2" with Immortals Arc too, he can use Sharingan, six Raikiri, Suiton ninjutsu without a water source, Kuchiyose no jutsu and is implied to still have chakra to use the Mangekyo to defeat Kakuzu.

Also you are really childish. What's the point in making a ranking if people vote higher or lower on purposely to "counter" other people's votes? I must as well vote 100% since you voted 59%, but what's the point in that. Anyway whatever helps you sleep at night, you could have voted even 28% for how much I care.


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 23, 2015)

59% is where i'd actually place him, considering how I voted for his P1 self.
but that's okay, you can stay salty.


edit: it appears the forum autocorrects some stuff


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 23, 2015)

Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
Chiyo = 52%
Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82% (Kazekage Arc + Immortals Arc)
Sasori = 71%
Start of Part 2 Tenten = 25%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 23, 2015)

*Start of Part2 Temari :*
42%

*Chiyo :*
62%
She was in par with Sasori and protected Sakura many times .

*Start of Part2 Kakashi :*
66%
Kakashi has more stamina compared to his first part version , he has access to the MS , but didn't control it well at that time , the aspiration was a bit slow (even Deidara noticed it) and it lucks precision . A bit less than Deidara .

*Sasori :*
71%

*Start of Part 2 Tenten :*
30%


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 25, 2015)

Did the thread stop?


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 25, 2015)

No , it's not stopping .


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 25, 2015)

*Group 11 results :
*
*Start of Part2 Temari :*
42.33%

*Chiyo : *
57.67%

*Start of Part2 Kakashi :*
69.00%

*Sasori :*
71.67%

*Start of Part2 Tenten :*
27.67%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 25, 2015)

*Group 12 :*

Yamato
Start of second Part Sai 
Start of second Part Kabuto 
Start of second Part Orochimaru
Start of second Part Sasuke


----------



## Santoryu (Sep 25, 2015)

Zabuza is comparable to a *wave arc Kakashi*; there's probably not a lot in it-Kakashi probably has a slight advantage-but he wasn't miles ahead. Wave arc Kakashi was noted to be *out of shape*. I think it's quite clear that the Kakashi that fought Itachi during the *end of part 1* was quite a bit above the likes of Zabuza and Kabuto though.


----------



## Sadgoob (Sep 25, 2015)

Yamato = 55% (mid range high Jonin)
Start of second Part Sai = 46% (Mid range mid Jonin)
Start of second Part Kabuto = 51% (low range high Jonin)
Start of second Part Orochimaru = 76% (mid range Mid Kage)
Start of second Part Sasuke = 72% (low range Mid Kage)


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 25, 2015)

Yamato = 52% 
Start of second Part Sai = 45%
Start of second Part Kabuto = 54%
Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% *
Start of second Part Sasuke = 61%  **

* he is weakened and without his arms he can't use a lot of ninjutsu, and he hasn't Edo Tensei anymore

** if that isn't Hebi Sasuke too but only Sasuke before he kills Orochimaru; otherwise if that includes Hebi Sasuke too I'll edit then

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82%
-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% 
-Start of second Part Sasuke = 61% 
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Yamato = 52% 
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Start of second Part Sai = 45%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


----------



## Sadgoob (Sep 25, 2015)

I feel p2 Orochimaru's only lost ninjutsu was Edo Tensei. His most impressive ninjutsu are still available to him: summoning (Gates, Manda,) Hydra Form, White Snake form, Oral Rebirths, and the snake wave. I would definitely put him at Mid Kage.​


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## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

stratgoob said:
			
		

> Start of second Part Kabuto = 51% (low range high Jonin)





			
				Raikiri said:
			
		

> Start of second Part Kabuto = 54%



First Part Kabuto = 54.13% , it's clear that the mraks should be above that version of him .

___________

*Yamato : *
53%
Mokuton , Doton and Suiton at high level , he can use clones , and have a little regenerating abilities thanks to hashi cells . I think First Part Kabuto is a bit stroner than him .

*Start of Part2 Sai :*
42%
Kurenai , Kankuro and Temari are stronger than him .

*Start of Part2 Kabuto :*
57%
He is young , it's obvious that he is stronger than his First Part version .

*Start of Part2 Orochimaru :*
74%
Kawarimi+Snakes summons+Hydra+regenerating abilities+poison , the same level of some Akatsuki members . Kakashi is really high in the rankings , his Kamui mastery was low at that time , nothing compared to War Arc version .

*Start of Part2 Sasuke : *(no it's not Hebi Sasuke) :
74%
Mid-Kage level , he fought Deidara without killing intent , and was dominating the fight from the very beginning until the end . So he has a high level Kenjutsu , 2 affinities at a very high level , snakes summoning , CS1 and 2 , he can fly using it , very fast and smart .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 26, 2015)

Yamato=50%
Start of second Part Sai= 40%
sai is weak sauce.
Start of second Part Kabuto
no point ranking him since he is essentially part 1 kabuto 
Start of second Part Orochimaru= 65%
**assuming this is the oro that fought naruto
Start of second Part Sasuke = 58%
Pre orochimaru absorption.


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## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

*Group 11 results :*

*Yamato :*
52.50%

*Start of Part2 Sai :*
43.25%

*Start of Part2 Kabuto :*
His mark is below the fist part version , so I will not include it .

*Start of Part2 Orochimaru :*
69.00%

*Start of Part2 Sasuke :*
66.50%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

*Group 12 :*

Immortal Arc Naruto
Chiyo
Hidan 
Raido
Kakuzu


----------



## t0xeus (Sep 26, 2015)

*Immortal Arc Naruto* 65%
*Chiyo* 60%
*Hidan *50% (due to hax only, his stats without immortality would be around 40%)
*Raido* 43% (he just got one lucky feat that Kishi gave him so he would look badass)
*Kakuzu *70%


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## Deer Lord (Sep 26, 2015)

Immortal Arc Naruto= 54%
Chiyo- we ranked her already
Hidan= 54%
Raido= 41%
Kakuzu= 70%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

> Chiyo- we ranked her already


Sorry for the mistake , don't mark Chiyo .

_________​
*Immortal Arc Naruto :*
55%
Stronger than First Part Kabuto I think .

*Hidan *:
54%
Only one cheat Jutsu , good Taijutsu and weapon manipulation .

*Raido :*
40%
Jonin level .

*Kakuzu :*
75%
Mid range mid Kage tier .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 26, 2015)

> Start of Part2 Sasuke : (no it's not Hebi Sasuke) :
> 74%
> Mid-Kage level , he fought Deidara without killing intent , and was dominating the fight from the very beginning until the end


wait wat
The sasuke that fought deidara *is* hebi sasuke
or do you mean that in this thread SOP2=Hebi?


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## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

> wait wat
> The sasuke that fought deidara is hebi sasuke
> or do you mean that in this thread SOP2=Hebi?


Sasuke Hebi= Start of Part2 Sasuke + Kawarimi . Since Sasuke didn't use Kawarimi , then I don't see the difference .


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## Deer Lord (Sep 26, 2015)

Oh okay then.
If that's the case the placing fits.


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## Sadgoob (Sep 26, 2015)

Immortal Arc Naruto - 70% (low range Mid Kage)
Hidan - 61% (low range Low Kage)
Raido - 40% (low range Low Jonin)
Kakuzu - 73% (low range Mid Kage)

The thing about Naruto is his power is going to vary a shit-load depending on whether he accesses KN1-KN3 or uses Gamabuta, which I believe he has the capability for at that point.

He by no means beat Kakuzu fair and square as Kakuzu was quite weakened, but I think if Naruto used all of his potential abilities, then he could give Kakuzu a huge amount of trouble.

The only thing the 50% FRS really gives is finishing power for guys like Kakuzu or Orochimaru. Guys that can give much higher levels with meh offense problems because of special defense jutsu.​


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## hbcaptain (Sep 26, 2015)

> The thing about Naruto is his power is going to vary a shit-load depending on whether he accesses KN1-KN3 or uses Gamabuta, which I believe he has the capability for at that point.


Naruto said that he didn't use Kyubi's chakra anymore at that time .


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 26, 2015)

Immortal Arc Naruto = 69%
Hidan = 58% 
Raido = 45%
Kakuzu = 70%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82%
-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-Kakuzu = 70%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Immortal Arc Naruto = 69%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% 
-Start of second Part Sasuke = 61% 
-Hidan = 58% 
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Yamato = 52% 
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Start of second Part Sai = 45%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Raido = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


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## hbcaptain (Sep 28, 2015)

*Group 12 results :
*
*Immortal Arc Naruto :*
62.60%

*Hidan :*
55.40%

*Raido :*
41.80%

*Kakuzu :*
71.60%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 28, 2015)

*Group 13 :*

Ino War :
Shikamaru War :
Choji War :
Suigetsu :
Juugo :


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 28, 2015)

Ino (War arc) : *36%*
She's no longer trash, but on her own she did not crack jonin level yet.
Shikamaru (War arc) : *38.5%*
Sorry, but can't see him as better than Anko.
Choji (War arc) : *53%*
dat giant butterfly mode.
Suigetsu : *50%*
Should be below kimimaro in general skill.
Juugo : *51%*

And before people jump on me, I ranked suigetsu lower than juugo and kimi because they are superior in raw power/skill
but he can beat them due to type advantage.


----------



## RBL (Sep 28, 2015)

i don't agree with first part kabuto and yamato being stronger than healthy kimimaro

healthy kimimaro is probably as strong as start of part 2 sasuke.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 28, 2015)

It's sick Kimimaro not healthy version .


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 28, 2015)

Brandon Lee said:


> i don't agree with first part kabuto and yamato being stronger than healthy kimimaro
> 
> healthy kimimaro is probably as strong as start of part 2 sasuke.


The kimimaro on this list is gaara fight kimi.
Who should be lower tbh.


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 29, 2015)

Ino (War arc) = 34%
Shikamaru (War arc) = 45%
Choji (War arc) = 54%
Suigetsu = 53%
Juugo = 53%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82%
-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-Kakuzu = 70%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Immortal Arc Naruto = 69%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% 
-Start of second Part Sasuke = 61% 
-Hidan = 58% 
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Choji (War arc) = 54%
-Suigetsu = 53%
-Juugo = 53%
-Yamato = 52% 
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Shikamaru (War arc) = 45%
-Start of second Part Sai = 45%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Raido = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Ino (War arc) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 30, 2015)

Ino (War arc) : 34%
She can barely stand up against Asuma's Taijutsu 

Shikamaru (War arc) : 41.5%
As smart as always .

Choji (War arc) : 42.5%
Yeah he is a giant but he lucks speed .

Suigetsu : 55%
A first class swordman just like Zabuza , his affiliation to Hozuki clan allow him to be invulnarable to any physical/elementary ninjutsu attacks lower than BD  , but he is week against Raiton , He can also use water guns or water prison sphere just like he did against Juugo . A top level Jonin .

Juugo : 46%

______________​
*Group 13 results*

*War Arc Ino :*
34.67%

*War Arc Shikamaru :*
41.67%

*War Arc Choji :*
49.83%

*Suigetsu :*
52.67%

*Juugo :*
51.33%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 30, 2015)

*Group 14 :*

Sarutobi Asuma :
Hebi Karin :
Hebi Sasuke :
Hoshigake Kisame :
Sick Uchiha Itachi :


----------



## Deer Lord (Sep 30, 2015)

Sarutobi Asuma : *54%*
He's on zabuza's level
Hebi Karin : *23%*
Mostly useless in battle.
Hebi Sasuke : *64%*
wait I thought we already did that. anyway, despite him being possibly the most wanked character in the NBD
he isn't actually stronger than deidara, just had a shit ton of type advantage and plot shields.
Hoshigake Kisame : *77%*
Kisame could challenge to the sannin.
Sick Uchiha Itachi : *78%*
Quite broken, but runs on AAA batteries.


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 30, 2015)

*Sarutobi Asuma :*
52%
2 affinities , Katon and Futon , a Taijutsu-pro , fast and skilled shinobis but the likes of Hidan , Zabuza are stronger than him .

*Hebi Karin :*
22.50%
She can sense chakra and regenerate .

*Hebi Sasuke :*
75%
Start of Part2 Sasuke+Kawarimi-chakra holding Orochimaru .

*Hoshigake Kisame :*
79%
One of Akatsuki monsters , a Bijuu-like chakra quantity , chakra absorption via Samehada or Suiton , very high level Suiton Jutsu , and Kisamehada combined with Dai Water Prison his ultimate Jutsu , I think he is stronger than the Sannin .

*Sick Uchiha Itachi :*
83%
Even sick he still win easily against average Kage level using his smartness , speed and Genjutsu . High Kage tier .


----------



## Mercurial (Sep 30, 2015)

Do you have a list of the characters that are left to be ranked?

Sarutobi Asuma = 52%
Hebi Karin = 24%
Hebi Sasuke = 65%
Hoshigake Kisame = 76%
Sick Uchiha Itachi = 82%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Sick Uchiha Itachi = 82%
-Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82%
-Hoshigake Kisame = 78%
-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-Hebi Sasuke = 70%
-Kakuzu = 70%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Immortal Arc Naruto = 69%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% 
-Start of second Part Sasuke = 61% 
-Hidan = 58% 
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Choji (War arc) = 54%
-Sarutobi Asuma = 54%
-Suigetsu = 53%
-Juugo = 53%
-Yamato = 52% 
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Shikamaru (War arc) = 45%
-Start of second Part Sai = 45%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Raido = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Ino (War arc) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Hebi Karin = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 30, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Do you have a list of the characters that are left to be ranked?


No , but the groups of characters follow manga's advancement arc-by-arc .


----------



## DavyChan (Sep 30, 2015)

Sarutobi Asuma =  58%
Hebi Karin = 33%
Hebi Sasuke = 64%
Hoshigake Kisame =  78%
Sick Uchiha Itachi =  80%


----------



## hbcaptain (Sep 30, 2015)

DavyChan said:
			
		

> Hebi Karin = ( i dont understand this. she couldnt fight... i mean she attacked that thing with her chains but...)
> 52% i guess


It's Hebi Karin not War Arc Karin .


----------



## Sadgoob (Sep 30, 2015)

*Sarutobi Asuma = 59% (Upper High Jonin)*
He's basically a peak Jonin, especially with part two feats.

*Karin = 37% (Upper High Chunin)*
She's skilled, but surrounded by High Jonin and Kage levels.

*Hebi Sasuke = 77% (Upper Mid Kage)*
Sharingan Genjutsu, Curse Senjutsu, Manda, Oral Rebirth, Kirin, etc.

*Hoshigake Kisame = 82% (Lower High Kage)*
Giant, powerful ninjutsu. Counters most nin, gen, tai. Easily captured Killer Bee. 

*Sick Uchiha Itachi = 84% (Lower High Kage)*
He OHKO'd Orochimaru, an upper Mid Kage, when he was at 1% health.


----------



## GearsUp (Sep 30, 2015)

So the op's collectively voted? even if it is it's pretty wrong


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 1, 2015)

*Group 14 results :*

*Sarutobi Asuma :*
55.00%

*Hebi Karin :*
27.90%

*Hebi Sasuke :*
67.00%

*Hoshigake Kisame :*
78.40%

*Sick Uchiha Itachi :*
81.40%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 1, 2015)

*Group 15 :*

Taka Sasuke (vs Bee) 
Killer Bee
Jiraya
Pain
Konan (without preparations)


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 1, 2015)

Taka Sasuke (vs Bee) = *70%*
Even tho he has an MS, lack of curse seal or sussano makes he kinda weak.
Killer Bee = *87%*
One of the strongest Kage-tier characters there are.
Jiraya = *78%*
He's the strongest out of the sannin.
Pain = *89%*
Top kage-tier.
Konan (without preparations) = *59%*


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 2, 2015)

Taka Sasuke (vs Bee) = 68%
Killer Bee = 78%
Jiraya = 69%
Pain = 85%
Konan (without preparations) = 56%

*Naruto general power ranking​*

*Spoiler*: __ 



-Sick Uchiha Itachi = 82%
-Start of Part 2 Kakashi = 82%
-Hoshigake Kisame = 78%
-Deidara = 73%
-Sasori = 71%
-First Part Orochimaru (with Edo Tensei and arms) = 72%
-Hebi Sasuke = 70%
-Kakuzu = 70%
-First Part Hatake Kakashi = 70%
-Immortal Arc Naruto = 69%
-Start of Part 2 Gaara = 63%
-Start of second Part Orochimaru = 61% 
-Start of second Part Sasuke = 61% 
-Hidan = 58% 
-First Part Sarutobi Hiruzen = 58%
-Momochi Zabuza = 54%
-Kimimaro Kaguya = 54%
-First Part Kabuto = 54%
-Choji (War arc) = 54%
-Sarutobi Asuma = 54%
-Suigetsu = 53%
-Juugo = 53%
-Yamato = 52% 
-Chiyo = 52%
-First Part Tsunade = 50%
-First Part Gaara (Sound 5 arc) = 48%
-First Part Sasuke (valley of the end) = 47%
-First Part Naruto (valley of the end) = 46%
-Shikamaru (War arc) = 45%
-Start of second Part Sai = 45%
-Start of Shippuden Naruto (without Kurama's chakra) = 45%
-Genma Shiranui = 45%
-Raido = 45%
-Aoba = 44%
-Baki = 44%
-Haku Yuki = 43%
-Start of Part 2 Kankuro = 42%
-Start of Part 2 Temari = 42%
-First Part Uzumaki Naruto (Chunin exam third stage) = 42%
-First Part Hyuuga Neji = 41%
-First Part Rock Lee = 41%
-Gekko Hayate = 40%
-Sakon/Ukon = 38%
-Kidomaru = 37%
-First Part Choji (Sound 5 Arc) = 37%
-Yugao = 36%
-Kurenai Yuhi = 36%
-First Part Uchiha Sasuke (Chunin exam third stage) = 35%
-First Part Gaara (Chunin exam) = 34%
-Ino (War arc) = 34%
-Mitarashi Anko = 33%
-Start of Shippuden Sakura = 32%
-First Part Temari = 32%
-First Part Kankuro = 32%
-Jir?bo= 32%
-Tayuya = 31%
-Shizune = 30%
-First Part Aburame Shino = 29%
-First Part Shikamaru Nara = 28%
-First Part Inuzuka Kiba = 25%
-First Part Sasuke (Gato Arc) = 25%
-Hebi Karin = 25%
-Dosu Kinuta = 24%
-First Part Naruto (Gato Arc) = 23%
-Meizu= 22%
-Zaku Abumi = 19%
-First Part Tenten = 18%
-First Part Choji (Chunin exam)= 15%
-First Part Hyuuga Hinata = 15%
-First Part Yamanaka Ino = 13%
-Kin Tsuchi = 13%
-First Part Haruno Sakura = 10%


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 2, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Killer Bee = 78%
> Jiraya = 69%


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 3, 2015)

*Taka Sasuke (vs Bee) = 68% (upper Low Kage)*
I'm not going to include the Amaterasu at the _very end_.

*Killer Bee = 80% (lower High Kage)*
He's tough ability-wise, but acts cocky/dumb in battle sometimes.

*Jiraya = 76% (middle Mid Kage)*
Like Bee, he has good abilities but is pretty goofy/cocky in battle.

*Pain = 85% (middle High Kage)*
Pain is a well-oiled and powerful machine.

*Konan (without preparation) = 61% (lower Low Kage)*
Her main power without prep, like Suigetsu, is that she's a logia.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 3, 2015)

*Taka Sasuke :*
76%
He lost CS and Kubiwa but he gained Amaterasu as the last Jutsu .

*Killer Bee ;*
86%
Perfect Jinchuriki , he can use V1/V2 for speed and Taijutsu and Bijuu Mode/BD for massive destruction , I think he can possibly beat Pain , SM Kabuto , and make a good fight against Minato and Tobirama .

*Jiraya :*
75%
Average Kage level , he can use many frog Jutsu , high leve Katon and Doton , oil and Shadow Jutsus , he also use Rasengan to beat the ennemy in One clean Shot . He can use Senjutsu , and summon Pa and Ma on his shoulders , it's his ultimate state .

[B]Pain :[/B]
85%
6 Paths of Pain , CT , ST , summoning , Ningendo , Gakido , shared vision .... High level Kage .

*Konan :*
60%
Logia like .

____________​
*Group 15 results :*

*Taka Sasuke :*
70.50%

*Killer Bee :*
82.75%

*Jiraya :*
74.50%

*Pain :*
86.00%

*Konan (without preparations) :*
59.00%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 3, 2015)

*Group 16 :*

Pain Arc Kakashi
Pain Arc Naruto
Fukasaku
Shima
Tendo Full Power (Deva Path)


----------



## ARGUS (Oct 3, 2015)

Kakashi - 70% 
Naruto - 80% 
Deva Path - 75%
Pein - 86% 
Ma and Pa - 60%


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 3, 2015)

Pain Arc Kakashi= *65%*
Pain Arc Naruto= *75%*
Fukasaku/Shima= *60%*
Tendo Full Power (Deva Path)= *74%*


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 3, 2015)

*Pain Arc Kakashi *75% (kamui hax can take out literally anybody without knowledge, and he already had stamina to use it more than once in a battle)
*Pain Arc Naruto *80%
*Fukasaku & Shima* 60%
*Tendo Full Power (Deva Path)* 80%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 3, 2015)

*Pain Arc Kakashi :*
66.50%
He has already masterd Kamui but he only use it in defensive way and only at the last moment , so he is not really stronger than his start of Part2 version .

*Pain Arc Naruto :*
71%
He needs a lot of time to activate his Sage mode , plus he can't maintain it for a long period , and because of that he is notably weaker than his War Arc version without Kurama's chakra .

*Shima :*
60%

*Fukasaku :*
66%
He has more destructive power using his cutting ninjutsu .

*Tendo :*
81%


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm not sure why SoP2 kakashi and pain arc kakashi ahould be separate, they are pretty much the same.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 3, 2015)

Yeah , it's about Raikiri's request . Plus , Kakashi's Kamui mastery is a little more advanced .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 3, 2015)

Pain Arc Kakashi = 84% *
Pain Arc Naruto = 81%
Fukasaku = 61%
Shima = 60%
Tendo Full Power (Deva Path) = 82%

* Not on the level reached in the War Arc. Still could corner and defeat Deva + Ashura without even needin to resort to Mangekyo Sharingan. Stated to be the strongest ninja in Konoha by the times of volume 43 ().


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 3, 2015)

> kakashi is > tendo and naruto
> kakashi trashed by two peins with help


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 3, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > kakashi is > tendo and naruto
> > kakashi trashed by two peins with help



I don't even. Whatever helps you sleep at night.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2015)

@*Raikiri*

We are talking about Tendo full Power , the one that use that kind of ST :

*Spoiler*: __ 








*An Shinobi with only avarage body constitution like Kakashi will be instantly killed by a Jutsu of that level .
*
*Tendo who fought Kakashi and Akimichi Team was really weakened by the other Pains* , his ST couldn't even kill the likes of Kakashi , Asuma , Choji ..... In other words if it was Tendo Full Power , Kakashi lost his fight at that moment :


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 4, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> @*Raikiri*
> 
> We are talking about Tendo full Power , the one that use that kind of ST :
> 
> ...



Sure, Deva would kill Kakashi with CST or CT. But Kakashi would kill him faster with long range Kamui, so I ranked him slightly higher, also because of their performances and portrayal.

I ranked like this: Six Paths of Pain > Pain Arc Kakashi > Deva Pain >= SM Naruto, I think it's fair. SM Naruto "defeated" Pain but we know he had so many advantages, like info from Kakashi and Jiraiya through Katsuyy, Pain fighting to capture and not to kill and still defeating him, being "saved" by Hinata and the Kyuubi interferences and so on. Kakashi didn't use his Mangekyo offensively and still cornered and could have killed Deva supported by Asura (fodder backup was irrelevant, some Kage Bunshin would have been able to do the same). But he won't have definitely be able to defeat Pain at his fullest.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2015)

Raikiri said:
			
		

> Sure, Deva would kill Kakashi with CST or CT. But Kakashi would kill him faster with long range Kamui, so I ranked him slightly higher, also because of their performances and portrayal.


Don't forget that *Pain Arc Kakashi use Kamui at the very last moment and only in defensive way* ,so it's not an option .* Just as I said , he will be killed in the first ST Tendo used .* We are not talking about War Arc Kakashi .

Plus ST is instatnly activated and repels all ninjutsus Kamui included .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 4, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Don't forget that *Pain Arc Kakashi use Kamui at the very last moment and only in defensive way* ,so it's not an option .* Just as I said , he will be killed in the first ST Tendo used .* We are not talking about War Arc Kakashi .
> 
> Plus ST is instatnly activated and repels all ninjutsus Kamui included .



Shinra Tensei repels everything has a physical form, Kamui is a hole in the space-time, it hasn't a physical form.

If you want to go with hyperboles like "Shinra Tensei repels all ninjutsu" then it's said  that "Kamui is a un unparalleled dojutsu" "there's no technique that can compete with this one" "against this techinque no defense is possibile, no matter what the space will be distort and the target draw in".

Logically, when Kakashi gets his Kamui on the Gedo Mazo suddenly stopped by someone that is wielding the Rinnegan and is believed to be the allmighty Madara *(2)*, and when Kakashi perfectly knows all the Rinnegan powers like Shinra Tensei and Preta Path *(3)*, and still not only doesn't even considerate, not even for a second, that the power that stopped his Kamui was Rinnegan's Shinra Tensei or Preta, but on the opposite, even knowing these powers, utterly states that for what he knew Kamui couldn't be stopped , it should be clear that neither Shinra Tensei nor Preta Path is doing shit against Kamui (which, when not enhanced by Rikudo chakra, still worked against Juubi Madara's Gudodama that normally nullifies all not Rikudo or senjutsu chakra made ninjutsu; that's War Arc Kakashi's feat, but the workings of the technique are the same).


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2015)

Well  yeah , but ST is also listed as a Jutsu that can repel *all ninjutsu*, *not only physical attacks .* .

*Plus Kakashi never use Kamui in offensive way at that time ,* so it's just like 3TS Kakashi vs Tendo plus some defense Kamui at the very last moment that's all .


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2015)

*Group 16 results :*

*Pain Arc Kakashi :*
72.10%

*Pain Arc Naruto :*
77.40%

*Fukasaku :*
61.40%

*Shima :*
60.00%

*Tendo Full Power :*
78.40%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 4, 2015)

*Group 17 :*

Akimichi Choza
Chibi Aburame
War Arc Shino
Inuzuka Tsume
War Arc Kiba


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 4, 2015)

*Akimichi Choza* 43%
*Chibi Aburame* ?? 
*War Arc Shino* 48%
*Inuzuka Tsume* 45%
*War Arc Kiba* 48%


----------



## Vice (Oct 4, 2015)

I disagree with Kisame's rating tremendously. No way he's above the likes of Jiraiya, Orochimaru or Sage Mode Naruto.


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 4, 2015)

Akimichi Choza = *42%*
Chibi Aburame - who?
War Arc Shino = *41%*
Inuzuka Tsume - mostly featless
War Arc Kiba = *41%*


----------



## Santoryu (Oct 4, 2015)

There's definitely a considerable gap in power between SOP2 Kakashi and Pein arc Kakashi. At first it took Kakashi a chapter or so to just prepare his Mangekyo Sharingan; fast forward to the Pein arc and not only is he capable of warping away a missile despite being on the verge of death-he's also able to instantly warp away a nail right in front of Pein and feign death. An early Kamui that couldn't be controlled properly (as noted by Kakashi) was explicitly stated to be a technique that's comparable to that of Itachi's arsenal. Kakashi went through several battles between the two periods, him getting stronger should be common sense.


Remember that Kakashi was about to land a Raikiri on Deva had his "back up" not hindered him?

hold his own in a struggle with Kinrin Tensei Baku
hold his own in a struggle with Kinrin Tensei Baku

Pain, a self proclaimed god, Rinnegan user, was honoured to meet Kakashi, and was reluctant to directly approach him even at the end. This is not me saying Kakashi at the time>Pain, because he's not-but Kakashi was a genuine threat to him.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 5, 2015)

Akimichi Choza = 43.50%
War Arc Shino = 40%
Inuzuka Tsume =41.50%
War Arc Kiba = 37%

Apparently Shibi Aburame is lucking feats , so he will not be taken into consideration in the rankings .

_________________​
*Group 17 results :*

*Akimichi Choza : *
42.84%

*War Arc Shino : *
43.00%

*Inuzuka Tsume :*
43.25%

*War Arc Kiba :*
42.00%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 5, 2015)

*Group 18 :*

Yondaime Raikage
Cee 
Darui
MS Sasuke (vs Danzo)
Ao


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 5, 2015)

Yondaime Raikage= *76%*
Cee = *46%*
Darui = *55%*
MS Sasuke (vs Danzo) = *77%*
Ao = *50%*


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 5, 2015)

*Yondaime Raikage= 75% (mid Mid Kage)*
A one-trick pony with a very, very good trick.

*C = 55% (mid High Jonin)*
Powerful mass genjutsu, excellent medic, Darui's  (albeit lesser) peer.

*Darui = 62% (low Low Kage)*
3rd Raikage's black lightning, kekkei genkai, took on Tobirama's killers.

*MS Sasuke (vs Danzo) = 80% (low High Kage)*
His Susano'o arrows are extremely deadly, and he's smart again.

*Ao = 50% (low High Jonin)*
A Byakugan utility, but as a Kage bodyguard, IMO he's a high Jonin.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 6, 2015)

*Yondaime Raikage :*
78%
I think he can beat all the sannin using his V2 speed and destructive punches .

*Cee :*
37.33%
A Shizune like .

*Darui :*
59%
Raikage's right-hand , a KG Ranton , high level Raiton and black Raiton user , he is defintly a Taijutsu and ninjutsu specialist , stronger than Yamato , Asuma and Zabuza .

*MS Sasuke :*
80%
Very fast MS Jutsu , Susano'o for offense and defense , Enton , and good analytic skills even if he was somehow impulsive and psychologically unstable .

*Ao :*
40%
I don't think he is an incredible fighter like Kitsuchi or Darui , he is somehow a Cee-like with more exprience .


----------



## ARGUS (Oct 6, 2015)

MS sasuke - 80%
Ay - 80% 
C - 57% 
Darui - 68%


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 6, 2015)

Yondaime Raikage = 63%
Cee = 41%
Darui = 53%
MS Sasuke = 75%
Ao = 48%


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 6, 2015)

Yondaime Raikage= *84%*
Cee = *42%*
Darui = *63%*
MS Sasuke (vs Danzo) = *74%*
Ao = *53%*


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Yondaime Raikage = 63%
> Cee = 41%
> Darui = 53%
> MS Sasuke = 75%
> Ao = 48%



This is correct.

edit: Oh shit, did not really see A having 63%
in that case
Yondaime Raikage *75%*
MS Sasuke* 78%*
and the rest is fine.


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Yondaime Raikage = 63%


Holy crap the downplay


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 6, 2015)

Ei has just speed and strength, and his speed isn't enough to blitz most of S-ranked shinobi. Even people that he could widely outspeed can kill him due to his lack of versatility (MS Sasuke with Enton comes to mind).


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Ei has just speed and strength, and his speed isn't enough to blitz most of S-ranked shinobi. Even people that he could widely outspeed can kill him due to his lack of versatility (MS Sasuke with Enton comes to mind).


No his V2 Shunshin kill all Gokage members in single fight . The proof , 3TS Sasuke can't stand against him more than 1 second in V2 . Plus he has a very high level defensive Jutsu .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Ei has just speed and strength, and his speed isn't enough to blitz most of S-ranked shinobi. Even people that he could widely outspeed can kill him due to his lack of versatility (MS Sasuke with Enton comes to mind).


Ei was killing a stronger sasuke than the one killer bee fought (who is ranked higher than what you gave Ei).
Ei can blitz the shit out of any low-kage at the very least, this a guy MS cannot follow FFS.
This is gross downplaying.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 7, 2015)

*Group 18 results :*

*Yondaime Raikage :*
75.86%

*Cee :*
45.62%

*Darui :*
58.00%

*Ao :*
48.16%

*MS Sasuke :*
77.71%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 7, 2015)

*Group 19 :*

War Arc Gaara :
War Arc Temari
War Arc Kankuro
Mifune
Chojuro


----------



## The Pirate on Wheels (Oct 7, 2015)

*Ino War :* Dah Best. Okay like, 90%.  But still.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 7, 2015)

*War Arc Gaara = 72% (low Mid Kage)*
Not as strong without Shukaku, but still decent.

*War Arc Temari = 58% (high High Jonin)*
Her part one summon on top of stronger blades of wing, pretty tough.

*War Arc Kankuro = 61% (low Low Kage)*
His Sasori puppet is boss, poison, and underground ambushes. Nice.

*Mifune = 63% (low Low Kage)*
Fast with a lightsaber. Simple but effective. Ei light.

*Chojuro = 58% (high High Jonin)*
Legendary swordsman, future Mizukage. But meh.


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 7, 2015)

War Arc Gaara =* 72%*
War Arc Temari =* 52%*
War Arc Kankuro = *53%*
Mifune = *60%*
Chojuro = *50%*
Utterly meh at this point.


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 7, 2015)

War Arc Gaara = 67%
War Arc Temari = 51%
War Arc Kankuro = 52%
Mifune = 55%
Chojuro = 51%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 7, 2015)

*War Arc Gaara :*
70%
His sand shiel is very fast ,  can easily block Amaterasu , but he is pretty slow in offense compared to other Kage level , Dojutsu users and sensors can easily escape even his surprise attacks but sitll I think his War version is mid-Kage level .

*War Arc Temari :*
55%
Extremely powerful Futon slashs , even Sandaime Raikage is scratched by it (without lightening armor) , plus her summoning is really the real thing .

*War Arc Kankuro :*
53%
Better Kugutsu , he even beats Sasori using Omoi distraction .

*Mifune :*
62%
A super fast Samurai , Shunshin+Kenjutsu at a very high level , he can also use Chakra and fuse it with his sword .

*Chojuto :*
51.50%
High level swordman , he is fast and skilled  in Kenjutsu . Stronger than Juugo .


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 7, 2015)

War Arc Gaara : 86%
War Arc Temari : 58%
War Arc Kankuro : 53%
Mifune : 64%
Chojuro : 62%


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 7, 2015)

Jesus, Gaara has a high High Kage?


----------



## tsunadefan (Oct 7, 2015)

War Arc Gaara: 70.55%
War Arc Temari: 55.50%
War Arc Kankuro: 55.30%
Mifune: 65%
Chojuro: 42.15%

Chojuro isnt higher because  of the ranking of the other ninjas on the list. Btw, kabuto pretimeskip is higher than choza... Or was it choji?


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 7, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Jesus, Gaara has a high High Kage?



five kage: Tsunade, Gaara, Ohnoki, Mei, Ei

Top Base: Ohnoki

Bottom Base: Mei


Gaara is a lot closer to ohnoki than Mei so he is high kage


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 7, 2015)

You gave gaara the same mark as pain.
makes no sense.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 7, 2015)

@*Davychan*

*Pain is at a hole another level than War Arc Gaara* , and Itachi , Killer Bee are obviously stronger than him ,

Kage level isn't just War Arc Gokage level , but also Edo Kage like Muu , Nidaime Tsuchikage , Sandaime Raikage , former Hokage : Minato , Tobirama , Prime Hiruzen... You think Onoki is stronger than those ?


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 7, 2015)

No because they are all so varying in strength that it makes no sense to put them in kage tier. And yes pain is strong he is above kage tier


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 7, 2015)

Some Kage like Minato and Tobirama are on Pain's level.

Danzo (with Shisui's eye) too. Mu perhaps as well.

3rd Raikage (with the sealing pot) would also be a threat.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 8, 2015)

@*DavyChan*
You have to respect the current ranking , maybe you think guys like fromer Hokages are above current Kage level but we have already marked two of the sannin , Yondaime Raikage , and some Akatsuki members like Sasori , all are below 80% :
-Yondaime Raikage : 75.86%
-Jiraya : 74.50%
-Orochimaru (Edo Hokage + Both arms) : 74.00%
-Sasori : 71.67%

It doesn't make any sense to place War Arc Gaara* far above* all those , and especially above Itachi (81.40%) , Killer Bee (82.75%) plus the same as Pain (86.00%) .

Kage level means Kages of all times , it's includes Edo Kages and former Hokages , so... Only Hashirama isn't included you know why . 
The ranking is following this pattern :
60-70% : Low Kage level  : some Akatsuki members , nukenin and weakest Kages in history ...
70-80% : Average Kage level : Maybe all War Arc Gokage members witout Mei , sannin , some Akatsuki members ...
80-90% : High Kage level : Edo Kages , former Hokages , strongest Uchihas in history (w/o Madara) , weakest rinnegan users like Pain/Nagato...


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 8, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> @*DavyChan*
> You have to respect the current ranking , maybe you think guys like fromer Hokages are above current Kage level but we have already marked two of the sannin , Yondaime Raikage , and some Akatsuki members like Sasori , all are below 80% :
> -Yondaime Raikage : 75.86%
> -Jiraya : 74.50%
> ...



it actually does because gaara is stronger than ai jiraiya orochimaru and sasori... lol


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## hbcaptain (Oct 8, 2015)

Ok , so Gaara who lost to Deidara is at a whole another level than sannin and strong Akatsuki members and can beat Edo Kages just by himself .


----------



## DavyChan (Oct 8, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Ok , so Gaara who lost to Deidara is at a whole another level than sannin and strong Akatsuki members and can beat Edo Kages just by himself .



beginning of shippuden gaara lost to deidara... lol


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## hbcaptain (Oct 8, 2015)

Yeah and Gaara beat Itachi , Minato , Tobirama , Pain , and by far exceeds the sannin , Sasori , Kakuzu.... *86% means that he is in a hole another level than one War Arc Gokage member .*


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 8, 2015)

*Group 19 results :*

*War Arc Gaara :*
72.93%

*War Arc Temari :*
54.92%

*War Arc Kankuro :*
54.55%

*Mifune :*
61.50%

*Chojuro :*
52.44%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 8, 2015)

*Group 20 :*

Mei Terumi :
Kurotsuchi :
Akatsuchi :
Onoki :
White Zetsu :


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 8, 2015)

*Mei Terumi *: 78% (double kekkei genkai that bypasses even defense of Susanoo level)
*Kurotsuchi* : 50% (kekkei genkai and solid arsenal of techniques)
*Akatsuchi *: 47% (didn't really impress me that much)
*Onoki* : 81% (he has such a great combination of utility, defense and offense)
*White Zetsu *: 45% (he's not rly that strong, but he has a lot of hax abilities)


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## Kurak (Oct 8, 2015)

> because gaara is stronger than ai jiraiya orochimaru and sasori


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 8, 2015)

Mei Terumi : *65%*
Kurotsuchi : *50%*
Akatsuchi : *47%*
Onoki : *79%*
White Zetsu : *37%*


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## Sadgoob (Oct 8, 2015)

Mei Terumi = 69% (high Low Kage)

Kurotsuchi = 53% (low High Jonin)

Akatsuchi = 50% (low High Jonin)

Onoki = 78% (high Mid Kage)

White Zetsu = 40% (low Low Jonin)


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## Mercurial (Oct 8, 2015)

Mei Terumi = 52%
Kurotsuchi = 51%
Akatsuchi = 45%
Onoki = 70%
White Zetsu = 50%


----------



## Ersa (Oct 8, 2015)

*
Mei Terumi = 68% 
Kurotsuchi = 52% 
Akatsuchi = 50% 
Onoki = 75% 
White Zetsu = 40%
*


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## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

*Mei Terumi :*
66.75%
Between Hebi and Taka Sasuke . She has two KG and 3 affinities but lucking speed and strong defense compared to other Kages .

*Kurotsuchi :*
52.50%
Youton , high level Doton and good Suiton . Future Tsuchikage . She and Chojuro are at the same level .

*Akatsuchi :*
50%
Jonin and Onoki's body guard , surely high level Doton and physical abilities just like Kitsuchi but in lower version .

*Onoki :*
75%
Jinton , high level Doton , flying ... plus large experience in battlefields . He has the strongest will between all Gokage members . He is also a good leader but I think he lose to V2 Raikage .

*White Zetsu :*
23%
Even weakest alliance members can beat him , at Meizu/Gozu level .

___________________​
*Goup 20 results *

*Mei Terumi :*
66.63%

*Kurotsuchi *:
51.42%

*Akatsuchi :*
48.17%

*Onoki :*
76.33%

*White Zetsu :*
39.17%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

*Group 21 :*

Fuu Yamanaka :
Aburame Torune :
Danzo w/o Shisui's eye :
1 MS pre-war Obito (just one MS no other Sharingan) 
Omoi :


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 9, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> *Group 21 :*
> 
> Fuu Yamanaka :
> Aburame Torune :
> ...



Why not considering the 3T Sharingan? I don't see why restricting a character's power.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

the other version with Izanagi will be marked appart later .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 9, 2015)

^
there's no reason for that.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 9, 2015)

There is more difference than the two Sasuke's version Hebi and Start of Par2 .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 9, 2015)

I'd rather make a single vote for pre War Obito too. He had that Sharingan, just he didn't use before as he didn't need.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 9, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> ^
> there's no reason for that.



The Obito that fought Minato would be this version.

(It pre-dated the massacre, so there weren't spare Izanagi Sharingan.)

People rarely consider Obito's Izanagi in matches anyway, for some reason.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 9, 2015)

Fuu Yamanaka = 51% (low High Jonin)

Aburame Torune = 59% (high High Jonin)

Danzo (no Shisui's eye) = 78% (high Mid Kage)

14-year-old Obito (no Izanagi or Kurama) = 80% (low High Kage)

Omoi = 55% (mid High Jonin)


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 9, 2015)

So is this MS Obito that as a boy fought with Kurama against Minato or adult MS Obito in Shippuden before the War?


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

I wanted to mark pre-war Obito with just one MS , but make it young Obito version who fought Minato in the flash-back .

_________​
*Fuu Yamanaka :*
46%
Surely a good swordman , and he is trap specialist .

*Aburame Torune :*
49%
Taijutsu user , plus advanced Aburame's Hidden .

*Danzo Shimura w/o Shisui's Shringan :*
77.5%
Near MS Sasuke and Pain Arc Naruto .

*Kyubi's Attack Obito : *
83.5%
He is pratically the same of his adult version , he said himself that he is a looser and genius guys like Kakashi are by far stronger and more talented than him [1] , so his level of speed , Taijutsu ,reflexes , agility is only due to his genetic talent , one of the most powerful Sharingans in history Uchiha's history plus Hashirama's cells  and we know how Madara became suddenly faster than anyone just because of that .

*Omoi :*
40% 
High level Chnin and maybe Jonin level .


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 10, 2015)

I'd say War Arc Obito is a 90% Pre war Arc 75% and Kyuubi attack version 65%

I don't know what the % stand for though


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

Kyubi attack version had almost defeated Minato , and you place him between low Kage level .....


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 10, 2015)

nah, all 14 yro obito did was get minato to be serious. he kinda got stomped when that happened.
--------------------

Fuu Yamanaka : 50%
Aburame Torune : 51%
Danzo Shimura w/o Shisui's Shringan : 78%
Kyubi's Attack Obito :  77%
Omoi : 44%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

No he nearly defeated Minato here :

That Obito is stronger than Tendo , Killer Bee ... not to mention Average Kage level .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 10, 2015)

I don't see how that qualifies as beating minato, this was a part of his maneuver from the get go


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

He *nearly *defeated Minato ,*one touch=win* , it was just a fragments of seconds matter   the battle of speed was realy close , that's enough to make him above all average Kage level . As a reminder , Minato fought many times Prime Yondaime Raikage wth both arms and a Perfect Jinchuriki many times in the past and make Killer Bee tremble just by hearing his name .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 10, 2015)

Except minato was already touched before and bailed anyway.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

> Except minato was already touched before and bailed anyway.


Yeah , because he used his slower method to absorb ennemis , he himself said he can do it in one contact if he touches the ennemy , he was arrogant that's all

*Spoiler*: __ 








Then , what he said here :

*Spoiler*: _One contact=Win_ 








And as I said it was a very close battle of speed , Obito could win the battle if Minato was just a bit slower , their level was close .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 10, 2015)

Honestly? no.

Minato was baiting obito with that kunai throw and then fucked him up in three diffrent ways with one move.
Obito isn't on that level yet at that point..


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

The manga clearly showed us that Obito was close to touch him , Minato teleporting is depending on Kunai , and Kunai's launching speed is limited and just a bit exceed Obito's catching speed , that's why it was close . It's *by far more difficult* to strike an ennemy when he isn't marked .

Then Minato could easily blitz him because he was marked by the previous Lvl2 FTG move , it's just normal , even Juubi Jinchurikis can't escape if they are marked .

To make it simple , the battle of speed was about  :
1-Minato touch/mark him , he wins .
2-Obito catch him , the he wins .


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 10, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Kyubi attack version had* almost defeated* Minato , and you place him between low Kage level .....



What ? No.
Minato stomped him.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

You didn't read my previous posts .


----------



## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 10, 2015)

Why, do you have different scans from an alternate manga chapter ? 

I've read that chapter, and I am just telling you what I saw. Minato proved himself to be superior fighter and pretty much destroyed Obito in couple of pages.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 10, 2015)

I have already explained in my previous posts *that blitzing a marked ennemy >>>>>>blitzing a non-marked ennemy *, and Minato was nearly fucked/touched by Obito in the first exchange when Obito wasn't marked , so the fight was close .

Plus it was a battle of speed , a bit slower Minato loses in 1 page .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 10, 2015)

Fuu Yamanaka : 52%
Aburame Torune : 52%
Danzo Shimura w/o Shisui's Shringan : 70%
Kyubi's Attack Obito : 76%
Omoi : 46%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 11, 2015)

*Group 21 results :*

*Fuu Yamanaka :*
49.75%

*Aburame Torune :*
50.25%

*Danzo Shimura w/o Shisui's Sharingan : *
75.78%

*Kyubi's Attack Obito :*
79.13%

*Omoi :*
46.25%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 11, 2015)

*Group 22 :*

*Mahiru :*


*Kakk? *:


*Taiseki :*


*Kakashi Gaiden :*

*Kushina Uzumaki :*


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 11, 2015)

Gaiden Kakashi: *43%*

the rest either don't have enough showing or I simply don't care about them.


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 11, 2015)

Kid Kakashi with or without Sharingan?


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 11, 2015)

with 2 Tomoe Sharingan


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## t0xeus (Oct 11, 2015)

Mahiru : *40%*

Kakk? : *45%*

Taiseki : *42% *

Kakashi Gaiden : *50%
*
Kushina Uzumaki : *60%*


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 11, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Mahiru : *40%*
> 
> Kakk? : *45%*
> 
> ...



Sharingan kid Kakashi with complete Chidori literally murdered Kakko (which he was on par before receiving the Sharingan). How can you put them on the same level?


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## hbcaptain (Oct 11, 2015)

Since when a mere Jonins can compete with genius like Chunnin exam Neji or 3TS Sasuke ,there is a big gap between them , even 2TS can clearly sea throught their moves so ... First Part Naruto+just a bit of Kyubi's chakra is much stronger than them .


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 11, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sharingan kid Kakashi with complete Chidori literally murdered Kakko (which he was on par before receiving the Sharingan). How can you put them on the same level?



Sry, thought it's Kakashi before sharingan.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 11, 2015)

*Gaiden Kakashi :*
33.5%
Chunnin exam Sasuke's level , Chidori+High speed+2TS Chidori , but he is lucking chakra in comparison . He can beat the weakest Jonin like Kakko or Iwa's subordinates , but he can't follow First Part Naruto moves when he uses just a bit of Kuramas chakra , Haku is also stronger than him since he is 2 years older .

*Kakk? *:
33%
Even a loser like Obito can follow his Taijutsu moves using 2TS , 2 TS Gaiden Kakashi is a bit stronger than him since he lost to him .

*Taiseki :*
30%
It's the one who uses invisibility Jutsu , Kakashi can stand against and barely killing him without Sharingan I think .

*Mahiru :*
31%
The KB user ,since he use that Jutsu , thenhe may have a bit more chakra than ordinary people , a bit stronger than Gaiden Kakashi w/o sharingan .

*Uzumaki Kushina :*
54.50%
Kurama's Jinchuriki , she has a large and amout of high quality chakra , she use powerful chains .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 11, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Since when a mere Jonins can compete with genius like Chunnin exam Neji or 3TS Sasuke ,there is a big gap between them , even 2TS can clearly sea throught their moves so ... First Part Naruto+just a bit of Kyubi's chakra is much stronger than them .



Even barely-more-than-fodder Kurenai and Hayate were able to intercept blitz Neji and block him like nothing.

Kakko, Mahiru and Taiseki were described as experienced and high level jonin in Iwagakure in the databook. Obito having a decent performance is due to him blooming with the Sharingan, I don't see how that is detriminental, Obito's potential is such that in two years he will be able to be a very hard opponent for someone like Minato. Don't see any problem for him in a far weaker version being able to keep up with far weaker characters then. And even before unlocking the Sharingan, Obito was still able to become a chunin.


Pre Sharingan kid Kakashi was already jonin at the age Neji and the rest didn't even finish the Academy, actually he was chunin from when he was 6 yrs old, something Neji couldn't even dream. Kid Kakashi learned Rasengan from Minato (since he created Chidori from Rasengan, and he had Chidori before receiving the Sharingan, without the Sharingan he couldn't copy techniques, and he didn't have the Sharingan when he became able to use Rasengan, so he learned it), created Chidori, and before receiving the Sharingan was said to be very skilled and fast by Minato and by the Iwa jonin, whom he faced equally before receiving the Sharingan, and stomped once he had the Sharingan.

Sasuke or Neji weren't even able to take the chunin exam before they were 12-13 yrs old, the age when Kakashi was already fighting in a war as a jonin, competing with other jonin that were adult and far more experienced than him. Child Kakashi could make jonin rank at the same age when talented people like young Neji etc didn't make the to academy. It's really funny that some say "Konoha was in a war so they needed a lot of ranked people on the battlefield hence he got fast promotions" ... it's bullshit! Konoha didn't need _*ranked people*_ just for the sake of it, Konoha needed _*skilled people*_ on the battlefield, and the most skilled earned higher ranks. It's not like in a battle they could say "You know, we have 450 chunin and 30 jonin on our side, you're automatically screwed, give up!" "Oh no we aren't at all, we have 425 chunin and 20 jonin, but now we will promote 50 chunin to jonin so we will be automatically stronger lol". Kakashi's rise of the ninja ranks as a kid was due to his talent and skill, trying to downplay that is pityful. When Konoha had his military strength lowered in Part 1 after Sand and Sound attack, it was said that the military strength was halved. Guess what, there were no promotions just for the sake of doing them, even if a chunin exam just ended. On the opposite. So that downplay comes to be hilarious, when manga and databook both sustain the opposite.

The Sasuke who fought Gaara as chunin exam was said to be "just" above chunin level, with Juin that the exam proctor didn't witness at best high chunin level, a level that pre Sharingan kid Kakashi surpassed at 10 yrs old likely (as he was chunin at 6yrs old already when he defeated kid Gai in the final fight of the exams).



t0xeus said:


> Sry, thought it's Kakashi before sharingan.



No problem pal, I was just surprised


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 13, 2015)

Sorry *Raikiri* , I don't have much time right now I will maybe respond you later .

____________​
*Group 22 results :*

*Gaiden Kakashi with 2TS :*
42.17%

*Kakk? :*
39.00%

*Taiseki :*
36.00%

*Mahiru :*
35.50%

*Uzumaki Kushina :*
57.25%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 13, 2015)

*Group 23 :*

Kyubi's attack Minato :
KCM Naruto :
Maito Gai :
Karui :
Samui :


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 13, 2015)

I even forgot to vote group 22! Could I do now? There aren't much votes, so I don't think it's a great trouble to make the averages.

And there's 8th Gate accounted for Gai, or he is ranked up to 7th Gate?


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 13, 2015)

*Minato (living) - 87% (high High Kage)*
Before getting Kurama, Minato was still one of the strongest Kage.

*KCM Naruto - 95% (mid Semi-god)*
Full potential KCM Naruto wasn't shown for awhile. He split himself up.

*Maito Gai - 104% (mid god)*
He tangled with Jubidara.

*Karui - 44% (Mid Jonin)*
Had to google her. I'll say she's middle of the pack Jonin.

*Samui - 45% (Mid Jonin)*
*


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 13, 2015)

KCM nardo isn't demigod tier.
he can't even beat nagato who's the weakest guy in that category.


----------



## Vice (Oct 13, 2015)

Regular Guy and 8th gate Guy should be two separate ratings.


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 13, 2015)

Vice said:


> Regular Guy and 8th gate Guy should be two separate ratings.



Maybe. But I don't know. It's not like it's a distinct power up like pre Rikudo powers Naruto and Rikudo powered Naruto that needs to have different version of the same characters. The Green Beast can open the 8th Gate whenever he feels, it's in his potential.


----------



## Vice (Oct 13, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Maybe. But I don't know. It's not like it's a distinct power up like pre Rikudo powers Naruto and Rikudo powered Naruto that needs to have different version of the same characters. The Green Beast can open the 8th Gate whenever he feels, it's in his potential.



Yeah, but it's a one-time trump card and then he's dead, not a true representation of his actual level.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 13, 2015)

Gai can use 8 Gates only one time in life , it shoudn't affect the mark that much maybe a bonus of 1/2% but not more .

We are marking Gai globally with gates use (and its side effects , limited time ...) and base form as we have seen in the manga .

As for KCM Naruto , he is not that much strong , Obito can easily take on him and his clones , he will never reach the semi-god tiers .


----------



## Vice (Oct 13, 2015)

Well someone's already put him at 100%+ because he can use it one time in life for 30 seconds and then die. 

Sorry, I think there should be a distinct difference between normal Guy and Guy using a literal one-time use only trump card.


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 13, 2015)

I also support ranking gai separately.

Kyubi's attack Minato : *84%*
he's not stronger than Pain.
KCM Naruto : *89%*
Top kage level.
Maito Gai : *80*%
Red Gai (8th gate): *102%*
Karui /Samui : don't care about these fodder.


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 13, 2015)

Kyubi's attack Minato :* 87%* (best sealing feats in the whole manga, great summons, S/T jutsu that is even able to reflect enemy's attacks, but the only reason he's still in the average kage group is because of weak offense he has shown)
KCM Naruto : *89%* (really great arsenal of techniques and nice mobility boost with the chakra hands)
Maito Gai : *100%* (best taijutsu user in the whole manga)
Karui : *33%*
Samui : *40%*


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 13, 2015)

*Kyubi's Attack Minato :*
90%
Highest High Kage level , better FTG than Tobirama , better speed and reflexes , rasengan to blitz ennemis and KB to make diversion combos while using Hiraishin , he can also summon toad and use Senjutsu .

*Gai Maito :*
80%
The best Taijutsu user , very fast and very quick moves but he can't beat High Kage level :
Muu : he has nothing against invisibility , the Tsuchikage will be almost invisible before even Gai open the gates .
SDR : he can tank Hirudora , and then Gai will be blitzed .
Bee : he tank Hirudora using Bijuu Mode and then easily kill half dead Gai .
Itachi : he tank Hirudora using Susano'o , then he easily wins .
Minato : He easily dodge his gated attacks for few seconds using FTG , then he wins .
Hi and War Arc Kakashi are the lowest high Kage level in my opinion .

*KCM Naruto :*
81%
He has good speed and can use clones but he has nothing to do in mid-god categorie , MS Obito is more than enough to beat him or at least stand against him . Sick Itachi and Bee anre both stronger than him .

*Karui : *
30%
Since when Karui is a Jonin  , strongest Chunnin exam Genins can easily beat her .

*Samui :*
40%
She is a 29 years old Jonin , she is clever and know a lot about Kumo's history .


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 13, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> *Karui : *
> 30%
> Since when Karui is a Jonin  , strongest Chunnin exam Genins can easily beat her .



I thought it's the Kuro guy with lollipop in his mouth, my bad. 
Kurogakure guys' names are so similar seriously.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 13, 2015)

Yeah no problem bro , even if Omoi is himself a Chunin .


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 13, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Yeah no problem bro , even if Omoi is himself a Chunin .



Rank-wise, but I would easily put him in category 40%.


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 13, 2015)

Gaiden Kakashi with 2TS : 52%
Kakk? : 45%
Taiseki : 42%
Mahiru : 44%
Uzumaki Kushina : 55% 

Kyubi's attack Minato : 85%
KCM Naruto : 87%
Karui : 25%
Samui : 28%

Maito Gai (max potential): 106%
Maito Gai (without 8th Gate): 89%

For Gai it depends to what OP decided, judging from his vote I guess he decided to divide "8th Gate Gai" and "up to 8th Gate Gai". I voted both anyway so he can chose according to his decision.


----------



## Jad (Oct 13, 2015)

I think Gai can beat Muu and Itachi (part 2 Sasuke). On my phone so can't type a lot. But for Muu, if Gai has knowledge I think it's a win almost all the time. Muu is both ranged and can go invisible. Gai is intelligent enough to know that if the fight doesn't end quickly, it will just get harder. Especially with Jinton. So Gates out the door with knowledge. Like he did against Obito, Madara (three times), Kisame (2nd time), possibly Gedo Mazo, Bijuu. In fact no knowledge scenario is when he doesn't go Gates immediately unless called for.

Without knowledge than the potential Gai has in beating him comes from charge time and AOE of Hirudora clipping him if Gai knows somewhere he might be. Yeah i believe he can use Hirudora more than a few times. Evidence is there when it comes to that fact.


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 13, 2015)

Jad said:


> I think Gai can beat Muu and Itachi (part 2 Sasuke). On my phone so can't type a lot. But for Muu, if Gai has knowledge I think it's a win almost all the time. Muu is both ranged and can go invisible. Gai is intelligent enough to know that if the fight doesn't end quickly, it will just get harder. Especially with Jinton. So Gates out the door with knowledge. Like he did against Obito, Madara (three times), Kisame (2nd time), possibly Gedo Mazo, Bijuu. In fact no knowledge scenario is when he doesn't go Gates immediately unless called for.
> 
> Without knowledge than the potential Gai has in beating him comes from charge time and AOE of Hirudora clipping him if Gai knows somewhere he might be. Yeah i believe he can use Hirudora more than a few times. Evidence is there when it comes to that fact.



Gai can just open the Gates quickly and blitz Mu (1)(2) since Mu going invisible is not that fast (3). The fact that Mu flies is irrelevant since Gai can reach and blitz him with a jump (4). Or if Gai starts in base and Mu goes invisible, he still has to become visible to launch Jinton (5), that Gai can still dodge easily, even in base, and he has no chance to surprise take Gai's back, Gai's reflexes and taijutsu skills are too damn good. Gai just spams Asa Kujaku or unleashes Hiru Tora all around and catches Mu in the AoE of his powerful attacks.

Gai also beats Itachi, definitely, Gai is too fast to be caught in Amaterasu and will avoid Itachi's eyes. Gai's speed and power will immediately pressure Itachi in to Susanoo. I don't really believe in Yata parrying Hiru Tora, but anyway Gai can just run circles around Susanoo and destroy it from the back.

It's also clear that Gai can use Hiru Tora more than once (not that he actually needs against most, with his feats in 7th Gate that are astonishing). In spite of the Gates, other than their power up, being something that pose great strain and damage for the body of their user *(6)**(7)**(8)* Gai's willpower and physical might allow him to fight with high level of Gates usage, as for the level of the Gates (even 6th ,7th, 8th), as for the time he mantains them; not that most of opponents would be able to require him fighting with Gates for an extended time, after all. After using the 6th Gate and Asa Kujaku, he is able to open the 7th Gate and use Hiru Tora to defeat Kisame and he doesn't feel any drawback until a lot of time, he is perfectly fine after using Hiru Tora *(9)* (he even reacts to Kisame's slightest movement and negs him *(10)**(11)*) and after all the distance he makes to bring back Kisame to the island *()*, he only feels the drawback of Gates after Aoba finishes his interrogation of Kisame. 

In the War, Gai fights for hours, using the Gates a lot of times; after being in a very tired state *(13)* he jumps to fight again: he is able to open some Gates to save Kakashi from a Gudodama, then he opens the 7th Gate to fight Madara and unleash Hiru Tora, then, even with some broken ribs, he opens the 8th Gate, uses Sekizo on Madara, uses Sekizo again while fighting again against Madara but off panel, then uses Ya Gai; he is even able to immediately adapt to the unbelievable pain that his body has to endure by being in 8th Gate state *(14)*, and fight like it was nothing for at the very least some minutes; if he can do that with the 8th Gate, that strains the body enormously more than 7th and 6th, he can use Asa Kujaku and Hiru Tora and the relative Gated states almost freely, and for example he can literally spam Omote Renge and Ura Renge. Let's also not forget that 2nd Gate opening has healing abilities for Gai's body and stamina, it had these effects for kid Rock Lee, so imagine how it would be for Gai *(15)* whose mastery is far, far, far above his beloved discipule, especially compared to his part 1 version.


----------



## ARGUS (Oct 14, 2015)

Minato - 85% 
Guy - 89% 
KCM Naruto - 94% 
Obito - 83%


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> KCM nardo isn't demigod tier.
> he can't even beat nagato who's the weakest guy in that category.



That was 1/13th KCM Naruto, and he was also hardcore PIS against Nagato.

From a pure ability perspective, KCM Naruto would _rape_ Nagato.

That's 13 Hiraishin-flickers and FRS spammers to deal with.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 14, 2015)

No , MS Obito easily dodged KCM Naruto plus just one clone with half of his chakra . Plus , clones level isn't the same , the stronger one have won against Muu and Raikage , the others can't even beat Top Jonin without their trump cards (Chiyo without her puppets , Kimimaro who wasn't using Kubiwa lvl2...) while he was accompagned by top Jonin/low Kage level like Mifune and an army of other Shinobis . But I agree KCM Naruto was weakened aganst Nagato because of clone usage .

All High Kage level can at least stand against KCM Naruto .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 14, 2015)

It doesn't matter if he was low on chakra or not.
His skillset isn't enought to beat nagato.

Nagato took three top kages to beat, and he's the weakest demigod.
Actual demigods like Tobi Rikudou, Edo madara, Edo minato and other on thier level shit on KCM nardo and all other kage levels.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Nagato took three top kages to beat



Three top Kages stomped him instantly.​


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 14, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Three top Kages stomped him instantly.​


If a whole chapter = instantly then yes.


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> If a whole chapter = instantly then yes.



The moment Itachi came into the fight, Nagato lost his arms. They regenerated. He used his ultimate technique. It was put down. And he was beaten before the dust settled.

Nagato also only did as well as he did against Naruto because of PIS. Naruto's v2 flicker and clones are a big threat to Nagato. And the same is true for Bee being held back (he could've gone full bijuu.)​


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 14, 2015)

None of naruto's offense can actually get through preta or deva.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 14, 2015)

@*Raikiri *:



> Even barely-more-than-fodder Kurenai and Hayate were able to intercept blitz Neji and block him like nothing.


Yes intercepting from behind without even noticing plus surprise effect like that can even be done by much weaker/slower opennents and that all along the manga :

*Spoiler*: _Haku vs Kakashi_ 









*Spoiler*: _Rock Lee vs Kimimaro_ 









*Spoiler*: _Sai vs Sasuke_ 









*Spoiler*: _Yamato vs Sasuke_ 









*Spoiler*: _Suigetsu vs V1 Raikage_ 









*Spoiler*: _Tobirama's clone vs KCM Minato_ 











> Kakko, Mahiru and Taiseki were described as experienced and high level jonin in Iwagakure in the databook.


Only Kakko was said to be an important Iwagakure's Shinobis , and only because of his polyvalence , plus his supposed very high level Genjutsu can't even take a 13 years old girl like Rin . Plus for information , Anko is stated to be one of the biggest leaf's Shinobis ...



> Obito having a decent performance is due to him blooming with the Sharingan, I don't see how that is detriminental, Obito's potential is such that in two years he will be able to be a very hard opponent for someone like Minato. Don't see any problem for him in a far weaker version being able to keep up with far weaker characters then. And even before unlocking the Sharingan, Obito was still able to become a chunin.


No , Obito is just a loser , one of the weakest Uchiha , he admited himself that he is the black sheep of his clan . He hasn't any natural talent for beeing a Shinobis just like naruto othewise he has access to a really high level genetical power , Hashirama's cells to boost drastcially all his stats , Sharingan/MS to follow Minato's moves and Kamui one of the most hax powers in the manga wich allow him to even make some a good fight against his Sensei , plus , he has Madara as a master . His adult version is nearly the same .

As for his fight against Kakko , his base form is weak , *it's obvious that he is much weaker than a genius like First Part Sasuke* who is the strongest Uchiha is history appart from JJ Madara . The same Sasuke was overwhelmed by Naruto with just a bit of Kurama's chakra :
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You can argue that 2TS Kakashi is stronger than Chunin exam Sasuke but since he can see his own moves with just 2TS , then he is obviously weaker than KN0 Naruto , the same guy who was overwhelmed by 3TS Sasuke :
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Then the power ranking will be like that :

kakko<=2TS Kakashi<KN0 Naruto<3TS Sasuke<<CS 3TS Sasuke .




> Pre Sharingan kid Kakashi was already jonin at the age Neji and the rest didn't even finish the Academy, actually he was chunin from when he was 6 yrs old, something Neji couldn't even dream. Kid Kakashi learned Rasengan from Minato (since he created Chidori from Rasengan, and he had Chidori before receiving the Sharingan, without the Sharingan he couldn't copy techniques, and he didn't have the Sharingan when he became able to use Rasengan, so he learned it), created Chidori, and before receiving the Sharingan was said to be very skilled and fast by Minato and by the Iwa jonin, whom he faced equally before receiving the Sharingan, and stomped once he had the Sharingan.


Konoha was in war , the village military power was very weakened that time , Hiruzen's goal was to train and send even the youngster the fastest possible because of that . The village was in war time , nothing like Naruto's generation , and because of that even some weaklings with just average Shinobis potentiel had Chunin grade as a young age :

Kurenai : Genin at 9 , Chunin at 13.
Genma : Genin at 9 , Chunin at 13
Rin : Genin at 9 , Chunin at 11
Obito : Genin at 9 , Chunin at 11
Anko : Genin at 10 , Chunin at 12

Thos guys are nothing compared to the likes of Neji , Sasuke at the same age , and we all know why they aren't Chunin . The criteria of selection changed because of time and village's political and economical situation , all of that is stated in the fourth databook .



> and before receiving the Sharingan was said to be very skilled and fast by Minato and by the Iwa jonin


No he is fast for his level , Minato can beat hundreds of kid Kakashi bairly without even using ninjutsu . Plus Kakashi said the same thing to Sasuke . And was said to be a genius by Kakashi himself , Jiraya , Gai .... Not to mention what said Orochimaru about him :





> The Sasuke who fought Gaara as chunin exam was said to be "just" above chunin level, with Juin that the exam proctor didn't witness at best high chunin level, a level that pre Sharingan kid Kakashi surpassed at 10 yrs old likely (as he was chunin at 6yrs old already when he defeated kid Gai in the final fight of the exams).


3TS Sasuke is at least Jonin level , KN0 Naruto shits on the likes of Kakko , same for 3TS Sasuke . (since even a loser like kid Obito can fight him...)


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## Sadgoob (Oct 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> None of naruto's offense can actually get through preta or deva.



Pain-Arc Sage Naruto did that just fine.

Clone feints and v2 flicker gets past both, easily.


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## Deer Lord (Oct 14, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Pain-Arc Sage Naruto did that just fine.


> Nagato>6 pains
> Naruto fought half the fight with deva offline
> Naruto's offense was shat on by pain once deva came back

try harder


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## Rocky (Oct 14, 2015)

If it weren't for the plot conveniently erasing Naruto's speed and intelligence, Naruto would have just caved Nagato's face in with a flash flicker punch.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 14, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> > Nagato>6 pains
> > Naruto fought half the fight with deva offline
> > Naruto's offense was shat on by pain once deva came back
> 
> try harder



This doesn't change the fact that Sage Naruto ripped through the Preta and Deva Path's defenses multiple times in that battle. It's just plain stupid to say KCM Naruto (10 clones with v2 flickers) can't.​


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## ARGUS (Oct 14, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> That was 1/13th KCM Naruto, and he was also hardcore PIS against Nagato.
> 
> From a pure ability perspective, KCM Naruto would _rape_ Nagato.
> 
> That's 13 Hiraishin-flickers and FRS spammers to deal with.



Lol no he doesn't


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## hbcaptain (Oct 15, 2015)

For those who marked Guy 100% and above , Iam talking about Guy wihtout the eight gate , so you should justify why you put him in god tier .


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## t0xeus (Oct 15, 2015)

Gai w/o 8th gate=*75%*


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## hbcaptain (Oct 16, 2015)

*Group 23 results :*

*Gai Maito :*
82.20%

*Kyubi's attack Minato :*
86.33%

*KCM Naruto :*
89.17%

*Samui :*
38.25%


Gaiden Kakashi and Iwa Jonins will be re-marked later , same for red Gai he will be marked at his time .


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## hbcaptain (Oct 16, 2015)

*Group 24 :*

War Arc Raikage (one armed)
Kitsuchi
Dan Kato
Kinkaku without Rikudo tools 
Kinkaku and Ginkaku + 4 Rikudo Tools


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## Mercurial (Oct 16, 2015)

War Arc Raikage (one armed) = 69%
Kitsuchi = 54%
Dan Kato = 51%
Kinkaku without Rikudo tools = 55%
Kinkaku and Ginkaku + 4 Rikudo Tools = 65%


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## Rain (Oct 16, 2015)

> Gai and Minato above Itachi

topkek list


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## hbcaptain (Oct 16, 2015)

Just take a look on Itachi vs Minato poll right now .


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## Deer Lord (Oct 16, 2015)

War Arc Raikage (one armed) = *75%*
Kitsuchi = *55%*
Dan Kato = *50%*
Kinkaku without Rikudo tools = *67%*
considering he can go V2.
Kinkaku and Ginkaku + 4 Rikudo Tools = *73%*


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 16, 2015)

Kushina who restrained the full 9T on her fucking death bed , who chains could break thru a technique that was giving the 5 gokage problems who has hype of teaching Minato most of his Uzumaki fuinjutsu is ranked a fucking Jounin below the likes of Deidara and start of part 2 fucking Gaara , KCM Naruto admitted inferiority yet she's weaker than beginning of pt 2 Kakashi that could barely use MS 1 fucking time.


The battledome has gone to shit and nothing is left but the same 4 Itachi wankers and noobs


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## Mercurial (Oct 16, 2015)

Rain said:


> > Gai and Minato above Itachi
> 
> topkek list



Even without opening the 8th Gate, Gai stomps Itachi.

Minato can definitely defeat Itachi.



Eliyua23 said:


> Kushina who restrained the full 9T on her fucking death bed , who chains could break thru a technique that was giving the 5 gokage problems who has hype of teaching Minato most of his Uzumaki fuinjutsu is ranked a fucking Jounin below the likes of Deidara and start of part 2 fucking Gaara , KCM Naruto admitted inferiority yet she's weaker than beginning of pt 2 Kakashi that could barely use MS 1 fucking time.
> 
> 
> The battledome has gone to shit and nothing is left but the same 4 Itachi wankers and noobs



And still with that one use of MS he can still easily oneshot her, lol. And canonically he used MS three times one after another, not just once, so I don't know what manga did you read, but it wasn't Kishimoto's one, definitely. And KCM Naruto never admitted inferioriy to Kushina, lol no. And since she isn't a perfect jinchuuriki, Deidara and Gaara should be more than enough to overcome her.

Luckily no one takes you seriously. Oh, the good old Itachi haters... Itachi > Kushina.


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 16, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Even without opening the 8th Gate, Gai stomps Itachi.
> 
> Minato can definitely defeat Itachi.
> 
> ...



He could only use Kamui once and after that one usage was in the hospital bed , and yes KCM said he wanted to become stronger than mom indicating his mother was still stronger than him and it makes sense after seeing her feats in the attack of the kyuubi Deidara got smashed by Naruto using 4kn and would get smashed by 6-8 kn what the fuck would he do against 100% Kurama he would get demolished yet on her deathbed she had enough strength to retain it and said herself she could reseal it into her own body that trumps anything Deidara or Gaara SS could even dream of not to mention Karin who is a noob compared to Kushina Uzumaki chains were enough to break thru the fucking Buddha that was giving the 5 Gokage fits .

Good because most of the good posters have jumped ship a long time ago and its a shame what this place has become


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## Mercurial (Oct 16, 2015)

Eliyua23 said:


> He could only use Kamui once and after that one usage was in the hospital bed , and yes KCM said he wanted to become stronger than mom indicating his mother was still stronger than him and it makes sense after seeing her feats in the attack of the kyuubi Deidara got smashed by Naruto using 4kn and would get smashed by 6-8 kn what the fuck would he do against 100% Kurama he would get demolished yet on her deathbed she had enough strength to retain it and said herself she could reseal it into her own body that trumps anything Deidara or Gaara SS could even dream of not to mention Karin who is a noob compared to Kushina Uzumaki chains were enough to break thru the fucking Buddha that was giving the 5 Gokage fits .
> 
> Good because most of the good posters have jumped ship a long time ago and its a shame what this place has become



You: Could use once.
Masashi Kishimoto: Lol. Could use thrice.

Warped away the arm.



Tried but missed.



Warped away the giant explosion.



Oh well I think I'll go with Masashi Kishimoto. Not even bothering on the rest.


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## Eliyua23 (Oct 17, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> You: Could use once.
> Masashi Kishimoto: Lol. Could use thrice.
> 
> Warped away the arm.
> ...



Kakashi feats still pale in comparison to what Kushina did against Kurama


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## hbcaptain (Oct 17, 2015)

Maybe Kushina chains are strong but it's the Perfect counter to Bijuu power , it's annihilate their power the same ways as Mokuton , that's why Madara was able to defeat them so easily . Otherwise , we don't know Kushina's chains speed and exact power , and it make her difficult to precisely situate her true level .

Maybe she can beat start of Part 2 Kakashi , he didn't master kamui that time , he lucked accuracy , if he wants to wrap out the head then the arm is wrapped . He can't kill Kushina like that , depending in chains speed , she can beat him , plus she has access to regeneration .


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## hbcaptain (Oct 18, 2015)

*War Arc Raikage :*
75%
He lost his dominant arm , for a Taijutsu user ... But he still incredibly fast and strong combined with his high leve durability due to lightening armour .

*Kitsuchi :*
58.75%
The same level of First Part Kakashi .

*Dan Kato :*
55.25%
Near Asuma .I think .

*Kinkaku without Rikudo tools:*
62%
He is strong in V2 but he is lucking brain .

*Kinkaku and Ginkaku + 4 Rikudo Tools :*
77%
If they go serious , they can beat two or three low kage level .


*Group 24 results:*

*War Arc Raikage :*
73.00%

*Kitsuchi :*
55.92%

*Dan Kato :*
52.08%

*Kinkaku w/o Rikudo tools :*
61.33%

*Kinkaku and Ginkaku :*
71.67%


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## hbcaptain (Oct 18, 2015)

*Group 25 :*

Pre-War Obito (MS+3TS) :
Salamander no Hanzo
Healthy Kimimaro
Chiyo w/o puppets
Alive Sasori w/o puppets (like we have seen against Kankuro)


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## t0xeus (Oct 18, 2015)

Pre-War Obito (MS+3TS) : *78%* (he has a really hax ability, but when you figure it out, he's not that strong actually. But he still gets some bonus points for Izanagi)

Salamander no Hanzo *58%* (don't care about hype or w/e he completely fell short on my expectations)

Healthy Kimimaro *111%* (great taijutsu&kenjutsu, non-piercable armor, actually no way of hurting the body from outside effects, was able to take 1v3 without even being HEALTHY)
*Spoiler*: __ 



 he's 65% imo, he is wanked so hard on here that people actually started to underestimating him




Chiyo w/o puppets *60%* (she's like any other puppet master without her army)

Alive Sasori w/o puppets *60%* (he got super rekt in the war arc)


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## Deer Lord (Oct 18, 2015)

Pre-War Obito (MS+3TS) : *82%*
Hanzo the Salamander: *66%*
Healthy Kimimaro: *55%*
he's at hidan's level

the other two are nerfed to the level of fodder without thier puppets.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 18, 2015)

*Pre-War Obito :*
86.25%
He can use Kamui and 10 minutes Izanagi , he can beat Pain i thought , Konan was jutsu his Perfect counter , she concentrate all her fighting style for many years just to beat him , it's just like Wonderwise vs Yamamoto in bleach . He is stronger than his rinnegan version due to izanagi .

*Hanzo :*
72%
he is really underestimated , the guy just beat the three youngster sannin at the same time without even minding to kill them . I tought he strengh has dratically decreased since he attended his prime , that's why he lost to Mifune .

*Healthy Kimimaro :*
62%
He is by far stronger than End of Part1 Gaara , his bones , Taijutsu skills and speed allow him to rival low Kage level I think .

*Chiyo w/o puppets*
50.5%
Low high Jonin level .

*Sasori w/o puppets :*
50%
Lowest high Jonin level .


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 18, 2015)

Pre-War Obito = 88%
Hanzo = 55%
Healthy Kimimaro = 54%
Chiyo w/o puppets = 50%
Sasori w/o puppets = 52%


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 18, 2015)

Pre-War Obito = 89%
Hanzo = 69%
Healthy Kimimaro = 67%
Chiyo w/o puppets = 53%
Sasori w/o puppets = 52%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 21, 2015)

Sorry Iam late due to some connexion problems .

*Group 25 results :*

*Pre-war Obito :*
84.75%

*Hanzo :*
64.00%

*Healthy Kimimaro :*
60.60%

*Sasori w/o puppets :*
53.50%

*Chiyo w/o puppets :*
53.38%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 21, 2015)

*Group 26 :*

War Arc Kakashi :
Gaiden Kakashi :
Yagura :
Nii Yugito :
MS+Rinnegan Obito : (w/o Jinchuriki)


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 21, 2015)

War Arc Kakashi : *71%*
Gaiden Kakashi : we already did that
Yagura : *74%*
Nii Yugito : *61%*
Rinnegan Obito (w/o Jinchuriki) : *86%*
He lost izanagi and gained gedo
overall not much of a buff without the paths.


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 21, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> War Arc Kakashi : *71%*


Check the results in OP, you put him even below his Pein-arc incarnation bro 

_______________

War Arc Kakashi : *80%* (great improvement in stamina and a new raikiri variant, but just the Kamui alone puts him there)
Yagura : *72%* (featless, judging just from few jutsus he used and just the fact that he was Mizukage with jinchuuriki)
Nii Yugito : *60%* (defeated by Hidan.. sigh)
MS+Rinnegan Obito *89%* (he's still almost undefeatable unless you are Minato, Hashirama, Madara or exploit his Kamui principle.. also he had Madar's Gunbai )


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 21, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Check the results in OP, you put him even below his Pein-arc incarnation bro
> 
> _______________


That's where I think he should go.
The pain arc incarnation (and SoP2 for that matter) is way higher than where I'd put him.


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## Mercurial (Oct 21, 2015)

I see spite rage votes, lol the butthurt on fictional characters must be painful. 

War Arc Kakashi = 90%
Gaiden Kakashi = 52%
Yagura = 64%
Nii Yugito = 63%
MS+Rinnegan Obito = 90%


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## Santoryu (Oct 21, 2015)

War Arc Kakashi = 87%
Gaiden Kakashi = 48%
Yagura = 70%
Nii Yugito = 65%
MS+Rinnegan Obito = 90%


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 21, 2015)

War Arc Kakashi = 83%
Gaiden Kakashi = 44%
Yagura = 79%
Ni Yugito = 74%
Rinnegan Obito = 95%


----------



## UchihaX28 (Oct 21, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I see spite rage votes, lol the butthurt on fictional characters must be painful.
> 
> War Arc Kakashi = 90%
> Gaiden Kakashi = 52%
> ...



 I honestly think you should place MS + Rinnegan Obito higher than War Arc Kakashi. Kakashi has the tools and knowledge to combat Obito, but War Arc Obito is a greater threat in general.

 But yeah, War Arc Kakashi is well up there.


----------



## Kai (Oct 21, 2015)

War Arc Kakashi: 85%
Gaiden Kakashi: 45%
Yagura: 87%
Nii Yugito: 73%
MS+Rinnegan Obito: 90%


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 22, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I see spite rage votes, lol the butthurt on fictional characters must be painful.


Nearly all of your votes contain spite and rage


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## hbcaptain (Oct 22, 2015)

*War Arc Kakashi :*
80%
He is Pain Arc Kakashi + Kamui mastery . lowest high Kage level , he is stronger than any Gokage member .

*Gaiden Kakashi :*
34.00%
Anko is obviously stronger than him . CE Sasuke like .

*Yagura *:
84%
High level Suiton + Perfect Jinchuriki + A rare genius according to the 4th databook .

*Nii Yugito :*
71%
High level Jinchuriki .

*MS+Rinnegan Obito :*
84%
He don't use rinnegan Jutsus , maybe he can't , according to him it's realy difficult to control such a powerful Dojutsu . So basically it's MS w/o Izanagi , weaker than his pre-war version . The Mazo isn't something hard to deal with it .


----------



## Santoryu (Oct 22, 2015)

Wasn't Yagura completely manipulated by a weaker version of Obito? Even a base Kakashi and a sixth gated Gai were shown to be comparable to the version two Junjuriki that were further enhanced by the Rinnegan.


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## Mercurial (Oct 22, 2015)

Xillia said:


> Wasn't Yagura completely manipulated by a weaker version of Obito? Even a base Kakashi and a sixth gated Gai were shown to be comparable to the version two Junjuriki that were further enhanced by the Rinnegan.


He was. 

Also I wouldn't say "comparable" since they were outnumbered and still counterblitzed them, countered their attacks and managed to hold off them without any problem until they trasformed in the full form.


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## RBL (Oct 23, 2015)

damn i was not here to vote for Gai 

War Arc Kakashi = 89%
Gaiden Kakashi = 48%
Yagura = 62%
Nii Yugito = 61%
MS+Rinnegan Obito = 89%


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## hbcaptain (Oct 24, 2015)

*Group 26 results :*

*War Arc Kakashi :*
83.12%

*Gaiden Kakashi :*
46.67%

*Yagura :*
74.00%

*Nii Yugito :*
66.00%

*MS+Rinnegan Obito :*
89.13%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 24, 2015)

*Group 27 :*

Edo Madara (w/o Kyubi)
Han
R?shi
Fuu (Nanabi's Jin)
Black&White Zetsu (the one using Mokuton against Mei)


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 24, 2015)

*Edo Madara :*
95%
Mid Semi-God tier , He has access to False Edo Rinnegan , Mokuton (weaker than hashi's) and Susano'o . But his full strengh is limited due to Edo Tensei limtation . Stronger than EMS Sasuke , BM Naruto , BSM Naruto and EMS Madara w/o Kurama , but Hashirama , EMS Madara+Kurama ,and his alive War arc version are stronger .

*Han :*
57.50%
His speed , strengh and Taijutsu were recognized all over the world due to Gobi's steam .

*R?shi : *
60.00%
He can use Son's chakra , apparently lava armour and mid-distance ninjutsu , Kisame said that he was really hard to capture .

*Fuu :*
40.00%
She masters partial Bijuu transformation , that's all .

*Black&White Zetsu :*
82%
He fought Mei , Chojuro , KCM Naruto and a lot of Jonin level , he lost because he was caught by a surprise attack made by Chojuro otherwise he was dominating the battlefield .  He is also incredibly fast , when he moves inside the underground , his reflexes are higher than V2 Raikage .


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## Mercurial (Oct 24, 2015)

Edo Madara (w/o Kyubi) : 94%
Han : 55%
Rshi : 57%
Fuu (Nanabi's Jin) : 52%
Black&White Zetsu : 80%



hbcaptain said:


> *Black&White Zetsu :*
> 82%
> He fought Mei , Chojuro , KCM Naruto and a lot of Jonin level , he lost because he was caught by a surprise attack made by Chojuro otherwise he was dominating the battlefield .  He is also incredibly fast , when he moves inside the underground , his reflexes are higher than V2 Raikage .



Thanks god, finally someone that reads the manga and acknowledges that Zetsu (Black + White) is very strong. I'll copy and paste my essay on Zetsu's powers, I hope it will help.

Zetsu is so incredibly underrated. People don't even know his abilities probably, or since he doesn't have big AoE attacks these abilities are deemed as nothing impressive. Typical shitty DBZ logic: Deidara can destroy a village with ease, Itachi or Kakashi (if not DMS version) cannot, still they can fodderize Deidara with their hax and skills. Part 1 Temari showed more destructive feats than Hidan, I guess she's more powerful than him? I don't think.

People have the misconception that Zetsu isn't a good fighter, but that's only true for White Zetsu, not for the other half Black Zetsu. It's clearly made a difference ()(). Also not being able to take on Pain Arc SM Naruto and Pain Arc Kakashi it's not that detrimental, I'd say, for Zetsu, but we know that White Zetsu is more a support, with his clones and supplementary skills, for Black Zetsu who is the fighter, and still fights with guerrilla tactics and not directly.

KCM Naruto's Kage Bunshin is able to outperform the 3rd Raikage and land Rasenshuriken on him even without any external help (3). An equally powerful Kage Bunshin even with the help of the Mizukage, Genma, Raido and some other strong jonin and chunin level ninja (so not top tiers but at least decent level shinobi) is unable to defeat Black Zetsu and to hit him with Rasenshuriken (4). The fact that Black Zetsu was "defeated" by Chojuro is not detrimental to him, as Zetsu was playing around and didn't expect Chojuro's sword to have that unpredictable effect (even all the other people around were surprised. A focused Black Zetsu is able to react to KCM Naruto (with his no full Shunshin speed, yeah, that is not as good as his full Shunshin speed but still on par with Itachi (5), Obito (6) and V1 Raikage (7), not bad I'd say) and to Kakashi (who is able to blitz Zabuza, to outspeed Obito (8)(9) and to keep up with Gated Gai (10) even counterblitzing Sharingan and Rinnegan enhanced V2 landing Raikiri on them (11) and also is hyped for his speed ()) together with Minato (13), even evading quick attacks from Minato faster than he can even finish them (14). Someone able to react to said speedsters would laugh at Choujuro if serious and focused on him, logically. Not to mention that Black Zetsu was perfectly alive and kicking after Chojuro's trick anyway.

It's true that Black Zetsu admitted that he would die in seconds against Kakashi and Minato (). Well then, out that god tiers and top tiers, how many S-rank/kage level shinobi won't die in seconds against Kakashi with Kamui and Minato with Hiraishin? So I don't see that statement as detrimental at all. Zetsu is not that powerful if he fights the opponent directly, but if he uses guerrilla tactics, which are what his skillset allows him, he is very tough.

With great reflexes, as showed, such to react to great speedsters with relative ease, he also has sensory abilities (16)(17), and can move at great speed thanks to his Kagero, also someway melting with the surroundings (18)(19)(20)(), and once he does that only a Rinnegan user can see him (it's not like everyone has a Rinnegan), and he can do that even splitting his body to be completely unnoticed (22). With these skills, he can evade the majority of attacks, even fast or wide AoE ones, and he also can take most people by surprise: to his speed and mobility he can supplement his clones with Kisei Bunshin (White Zetsu's clones: they aren't powerful but can be very useful, for example they were able to set Zetsu's spores at the Gokage meeting with the Gokage unable to tell that (23)(24); defeating the clones can bring out Hoshi no jutsu, Zetsu's spores, that can bloom on people remaining unnoticed and then suck out people's chakra). 

Black Zetsu is really hard to kill, he is basically like a black jelly in his true form, we witnessed how cutting his body in half does literally nothing to him (25)(26). He can take advantage of this to outlast his enemies or to take them by surprise: the combo of his mobility skills, supplementary skills and how hard is to kill him make him a tough opponent for most of S-rank/kage level shinobi. Most of people can't hit him, and even if they hit him, they won't kill him. While he can outlast them or take them by surprise, and suck dry their chakra or simply jump on the opponent and stick on him possessing and making them kill themselves; most of people don't have Obito's willpower to avoid Zetsu controlling them, even dying Obito's willpower is far above the one of people like Mei Terumi for example. Let's also not forget how Zetsu has great knowledge of nearly every opponent he can face thanks to the info he gathered. Zetsu can also use Mokuton.

To kill Zetsu you need to be able to actually hit him (which is very difficult due to his great movement speed and mobility with Kagero and with his reflexes and sensory skills) in first place and to make enough damage to erase him or have hax to defeat him (cutting him in half for example does nothing to him): you need attacks like Bijuu Dama to destroy him or hax like Kamui to take him out, but most people don't have things like that. Most people aren't actually able to put down Zetsu and to avoid him possessing them or sucking their chakra. I don't really see how Mu, 3rd Raikage, 2nd Mizukage, MS Sasuke, SM Naruto, Onoki, Jiraiya, Kakuzu, Hebi Sasuke, Deidara, Sasori, Shippuden and War Gaara, Fuuton training Naruto, Part 1 Kakashi, Old Hiruzen, Hidan, Konan, Darui, Tsunade, Mei Terumi, Mifune and below are actually defeating Zetsu for good.

Actually I don't see how Itachi is defeating Zetsu 10 times on 10. Zetsu is definitely able to react to his speed, if he could react to faster characters than Itachi. Zetsu can laugh about Itachi's base skills, since kunai, Suiton or Katon aren't doing shit to him, and he can dodge them anyway, but anyway he isn't taking any damage. He can fight as a jelly avoiding eye contact and so Sharingan genjutsu. He can move dodging Susanoo, Totsuka sword and Amaterasu, and even if it Susanoo can cut him in half and still do nothing, Amaterasu can kill him and he will just take out the part and be fine, only Totsuka will defeat him by sealing, but is it actually hitting him? I don't believe by feats. If Itachi doesn't manage to make a strategy to hit him with Totsuka or Tsukuyomi he can lose by being outlasted or by having his chakra drained, especially as he nearly faints everytime he uses Mangekyo, as seen in his fight with Sasuke, and even in part 1 he showed signs of great fatigue.

Minato too won't have an easy time. We already witnessed that Zetsu is able to react to his speed, Minato can manage to hit him with Hiraishin by setting marks and using his marked kunai, but a Rasengan or a kunai slash will do shit to Zetsu. Minato will win only with Shisho Fuuin.

I can see only god tiers, top tiers, and people like MS/MS + Rinnegan Obito (Kamui), War Arc 1MS Kakashi (Kamui), Nagato (Chibaku Tensei), BM/BSM Naruto (Bijuu Dama, Cho Odama Rasenshuriken), 7th Gate Gai (blitz + Hiru Tora + Asa Kujaku) and so on winning against Zetsu 10 times on 10.


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## t0xeus (Oct 24, 2015)

*Edo Madara* (w/o Kyubi) - *97% * (he's just by far stronger than KCM Naruto who's at 89%, not fair)

*Han *- *57%* (ugh not much to say, he was strong but still defeated by akatsuki)

*R?shi *- *58%* (at least got respect from an akatsuki member after getting defeated, also KG)

*Fuu *- *50%* (she didn't show us anything)

*Black&White Zetsu* - After reading Raikiri's interesting post, I am going with *85%*, his knowledge is infinite and unsurpassable by anybody in Naruverse.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 24, 2015)

@*Raikiri :*

I am ok with 60/65% of your post , but I would say that itachi can kill Black Zetsu using Amaterasu or sealing him with Totsuka (of course after using some kind of strategy) .


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## Deer Lord (Oct 24, 2015)

Edo Madara (w/o Kyubi): *97%*
Han: *59%*
R?shi: *58%*
Fuu (Nanabi's Jin): no clue
Black&White Zetsu (the one using Mokuton against Mei): not getting into this shitstorm


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## Mercurial (Oct 24, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> @*Raikiri :*
> 
> I am ok with 60/65% of your post , but I would say that itachi can kill Black Zetsu using Amaterasu or sealing him with Totsuka (of course after using some kind of strategy) .



Black Zetsu is fast enough to dodge Amaterasu (he can also detach his own body to save himself from the flames if he is already hit, don't forget that) and fast enough to dodge Totsuka. Itachi needs a great strategy to hit him with Totsuka or Tsukuyomi, but Zetsu can try to exhaust him, and that's not impossibile; I think it could go either way.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Oct 24, 2015)

Itachi Sick 80%
Itachi Edo 90%
Itachi Healthy 100%
Itachi Max potential(EMS / PS / Koto) 150%

Bonus : 

Itachi Darkrasengan edition 12%
Itachi Turrin edition 48%
Itachi Jplaya edition 1000%


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## Sadgoob (Oct 24, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> *Black&White Zetsu* - After reading Raikiri's interesting post, I am going with *85%*, his knowledge is infinite and unsurpassable by anybody in Naruverse.



Hence why he called Itachi completely invincible.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 24, 2015)

Strategoob said:
			
		

> Hence why he called Itachi completely invincible.


According to him , Itachi can't be beaten in his Susano'o+Totsuka+Yata form , and it's obvious that he can't maintain it for more than 1 or 2 minutes so ...


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

*Group 27 results :*

*Edo Madara :*
95.75%

*Han :*
57.13%

*R?shi : *
58.25%

*Fuu : *
46.67%

*Balck&White Zetsu :*
82.33%


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

*Group 28 :*

War Arc Tsunade :
Healthy Itachi :
Muu :
Gengetsu :
Sandaime Raikage :


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

War Arc Tsunade : *74%*
Healthy Itachi : no such thing
Muu : *80%*
Gengetsu : *77%*
Sandaime Raikage : *82%*


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## t0xeus (Oct 25, 2015)

War Arc Tsunade : *75%*
Healthy Itachi : filler tier
Muu : *83%* (great character tbh)
Gengetsu : *72%*
Sandaime Raikage : *85%*


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

*War Arc Tsunade :*
71.50%
Great strengh and regenerating abilities , strong support summoning , but she is lucking speed and some feint Jutsu , she always adopt a linear fighting style and that affect her effectiveness . At Sasori/Kakuzu range .

*Healthy Itachi :*
84.00%
According to black Zetsu , Itachi's physical abilities were weackened during his fight against Sasuke . So he would be a little better , one cut above , stronger than War Arc Kakashi .

*Muu : *
80.50%
The strongest among Z-Kage , basically he is Onoki+better speed/reflexes+fission Jutsu+total indetectability , he seems to have a good fighting experience and some Kenjutsu skills . But his will isn't at the same level of Onoki . high Kage level .

*Gengetsu :*
79.50%
Hozuki clan appartenance , so you need some sealing Jutsu , Raiton or a Jutsu with high destructive power to kill him , He can use water and oil , combined with his claw Genjutsu , even alliance Shinobis sensors can't find him . If the claw is defeated , he can use his Jokey Boy , I think his speed reach V1 Raikage , and much more agile . 

*Sandaime Raikage :*
80.25%
His speed reach V1 Raikage in my opinion , great reflexes and Taijutsu level , maybe he is slower than his son but his much much more durable , he even tanked FRS while Raiton is weaker than Futon , he tanked Bijuu physical attacks , plus his Jigozuki has extreme penetrating power , Raikiri pale in comparision , a whole another level .


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2015)

War Arc Tsunade : 60%
Healthy Itachi : Doesn't exist, as the other said I wouldn't vote him too. If I have, I'll go with 81% anyway.
Muu : 74%
Gengetsu : 73%
Sandaime Raikage : 71%


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

t0xeus said:
			
		

> Muu : 83% (great character tbh)
> Gengetsu : 72%


Muu and Gengetsu were rivals , how the hell 11% would be possible between that two , it's as you are saying that Muu is on a whole another level .


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## t0xeus (Oct 25, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Muu and Gengetsu were rivals , how the hell 11% would be possible between that two , it's as you are saying that Muu is on a whole another level .



He is on a whole another level feat-wise, but he had Hozuki hax, also we don't know details about their battle.

Suigetsu is also levels under War Arc Sakura, but she has no way of killing him, but that doesn't put Suigetsu above Sakura, right?


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2015)

Well by feats Mu appears more powerful than Gengetsu, and the fact that they were rivals doesn't ensure they were exactly on the same level (it can be, but not necessarily). Actually I don't know how both could end dying one by the hands of the other, if I didn't know that already I wouldn't gauge it as possible.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

Well what I said is that there isn't huge gap between the two of them , both have total indetectability Jutsu (Gengetsu has his Claw Genjutsu and Muu his own Jutsu) , and since Muu has blitzing power (Jinton) , Gengetsu has speed , impredictability , and complexe moves (Jokey Boy) especailly that he can do it continiously unlike Muu's Jinton . Plus he has Hozuki Jutsus , it's a good counter to a lot of Jutsus . Gaara wasn't beating him without Onokis help and his father's golden sand .


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## t0xeus (Oct 25, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Well what I said is that there isn't huge gap between the two of them , both have total indetectability Jutsu (Gengetsu has his Claw Genjutsu and Muu his own Jutsu) , and since Muu has blitzing power (Jinton) , Gengetsu has speed , impredictability , and complexe moves (Jokey Boy) especailly that he can do it continiously unlike Muu's Jinton . Plus he has Hozuki Jutsus , it's a good counter to a lot of Jutsus . Gaara wasn't beating him without Onokis help and his father's golden sand .



Exactly, he has great counters against Muu, therefore he doesn't need to be stronger to have an answer to Muu's techniques.

Once you figure out Gengetsu's abilities, he isn't going to kill you anyhow and also Muu shouldn't have problem finding Gengetsu as a skilled sensor-type ninja, or he can just remain in his indetectable form lol.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

Healthy Itachi exists, as Zetsu said sick Itachi was usuaully "much stronger" and thought he had been "severely injured" before fighting Sasuke. So Healthy Itachi was Zetsu's norm and sick Itachi was the exception. He's hard to cap though, but I think upper High Kage is fair if he's lower High Kage when he's a "severely injured" level of sick. But I guess people are just going to wait for Edo Itachi.

War Arc Tsunade : 74%
Healthy Itachi : 88%
Muu : 83%
Gengetsu : 77%
Sandaime Raikage : 81%​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

No version of itachi is beating pain, get real people.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

KCM Naruto put Nagato on a reflexively much higher level than Pain with his techniques, and Nagato had problems reacting to Itachi with defensive techniques. So I don't know about that.

Additionally, ninja don't _need_ to be able to defeat ninja higher than them. They just need to be able to defeat more high level ninja. And non-sick Itachi would IMO beat more high levels than Pain, easier.​


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

Why , four of six Pain avatars are instantly blitzed by Amaterasu , only Tendo and Gakido can survive , and Itachi is very capable of fighting the two at the same time .


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Why , four of six Pain avatars are instantly blitzed by Amaterasu , only Tendo and Gakido can survive , and Itachi is very capable of fighting the two at the same time .


CT GG.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

Or Totsuka GG, depending on who uses what first. Plus IMO Itachi can counter Chibaku Tensei himself now that he has knowledge on it and will react more proactively to its use.​


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

Well Tendo can't use CT nor Strong ST with other avatars activated , so four out of six will be blitzed in one shot , Tendo can only counter using ST and Gakido can absorb using Gakidou . 

As for CT , it depends if Tendo is fast/smart enough to use it at time , Itachi can clearly deal with him using 5 seconds weakness .


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

Lets see.

If we want "healthy itachi" to be top kage then he need to be able to beat:
1. Pain - loses as noted above
2. Kabuto- buttfucks itachi to oblivion
3. War Obito - lol
4. KCM nardo - a non jobbing nardo makes short work of him.

Healthy/Edo Itachi is more like 84%-85%.
And I still maintain that healthy itachi is fanfic, just put edo itachi for rank and be done with it.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

None of that is accurate. War Obito has seven bijuu fighting for him (and Gedou Mazo) and is invicible while phased with Kamui. You all fucked up by not putting him in the semi-God tier. 

Same goes for KCM Naruto, whose 1/13th drained Dat Clone beat a legendary Raikage that would be borderline High Kage himself at his peak when using the legendary item of the sealing jar.

And Kabuto with Edo Tensei army sure as shit doesn't belong in the High Kage tier either, but Itachi would beat him without ET as he was purposefully not using deadly jutsu (Totsuka, Amaterasu.)

As for Pain, Itachi would beat him. Pain was put on a much lower reflexive  tier by KCM Naruto when they were all fighting Nagato. And Nagato was unable to react to Itachi's jutsu.

A "severely injured" healthy Itachi is lower High Kage, capable of toying and thrashing Mid Kages. So I don't see why a "much stronger" version would barely scrape up 1-2%.​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

You guys are also assuming full intel or something.
no knowledge against pain literally ends in pain.

if we assume full intel for both, pain just gonna place gakido up from to absorb everything or goes straight for BT+soul rip.


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## Mercurial (Oct 25, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> And I still maintain that healthy itachi is fanfic, just put edo itachi for rank and be done with it.



I agree with that.


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> None of that is accurate. War Obito has seven bijuu fighting for him and is invicible while phased with Kamui. You all fucked up by not putting him in the semi-God tier.
> 
> Same goes for KCM Naruto, whose 1/13th drained Dat Clone beat a legendary Raikage that would be borderline High Kage himself at his peak when using the legendary item of the sealing jar.
> 
> Kabuto does lose to Itachi, as Itachi was purposefully trying not to kill him. And Pain was put on a lower level by Naruto.​


War obito w/o the jins has been rated.

Kabuto butchers itachi.
He easily handled both him and sauce and was killing itachi over and over again
he had an answer to any of their techs regardless of intent.
all of this while fighting without sight.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

Euh no healthy Itachi=sick Itachi+more speed/reflexes+MS Jutsus will not affect him that much . The differnece isn't big but notable especially if he fought guys like Minato , if he was sick he will be full of openings that should kill him , full health can solve somehow such a problem .

Plus , Healthy Itachi isn't Edo Itachi since his chakra is very limited , he can't spamm MS Jutsus as he wants , another notable difference .



> 1. Pain - loses as noted above
> 2. Kabuto- buttfucks itachi to oblivion
> 3. War Obito - lol
> 4. KCM nardo - a non jobbing nardo makes short work of him.


Iam not saying that he will beat those guys but he still have chances .


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## Vice (Oct 25, 2015)

Healthy Itachi doesn't exist because there's no way to accurately quantify his strength past Zetsu saying he should be much stronger than the shit pushing he took from Hebi Sasuke without MS hax. He's also not going to be stronger than his edo counterpart without EMS who has infinite chakra, immortality and no Sharingan use drawbacks. Any of this nonsense about him being above Nagato and Pain is pure fanfiction.


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## RBL (Oct 25, 2015)

War Arc Tsunade : 74%
Healthy Itachi : 89%
Muu : 83%
Gengetsu : 79%
Sandaime Raikage : 78%


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Plus IMO Itachi can counter Chibaku Tensei himself now that he has knowledge on it and will react more proactively to its use.​


Manga literally disagrees.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

Vice said:


> Healthy Itachi doesn't exist because there's no way to accurately quantify his strength past Zetsu saying he should be much stronger than the shit pushing he took from Hebi Sasuke without MS hax. He's also not going to be stronger than his edo counterpart without EMS who has infinite chakra, immortality and no Sharingan use drawbacks. Any of this nonsense about him being above Nagato and Pain is pure fanfiction.


Healthy Itachi=Edo itachi feats + limited chakra quantity , we can easily quantify his strengh with that kind of method .


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

^ Edo Itachi never went all out. He was stated and shown to be holding back a great deal against Kabuto, and he was busy saving Naruto and Bee against Nagato. (Then instantly put him down.)​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> ^ Edo Itachi never went all out, except for the brief second against Nagato.


Unless itachi can fire bijuudamas or summon naruto and bee
I'm not seeing what he can do.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

In the scenario where Nagato has absorbed the Hachibi's chakra and immediately starts with his strongest technique CT, then that would be arguable. In the manga, Edo Nagato had his arms cut off twice before that happened and wouldn't be able to use CT were he alive.​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

In any scenario when CT is used on itachi, he's dead.
if KN6 can't stop it, itachi with his inferior firepower surely can't.

You're not fooling anyone, you have no feats to fall back on.


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

If Pain activated his CT , then Itachi can't do anything , you need at least a Perfect Jinchuriki's BD in BM to destroy such a huge thing , Yasaka no magatama  is neglected compared to such a marvelous Jutsu .


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

Except Itachi can likely punk Nagato while he's taking the several seconds to build CT in his hands, since all the other Paths have to be down and stops him from having Deva Path for awhile. 

In the manga, Itachi observed what was happening. Now he knows, and will react instantly. You can't compare someone like Itachi to something like KN6. It's clueless and brainless.

IMO that's basically the division between all our opinions. You're focused on raw power matches and not intelligence/skill/application. Itachi's always going to have an advantage in the latter.

There's a reason the author constantly hyped Itachi extravagantly. Y'all write it off like it's nothing, but he has sufficient raw power and unmatched skill and intellect. He'd beat most of these people.​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

So you don't have any, thought so.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

A lack of capping feats was my original point. Itachi never went all out in the manga for an extended period of time, as when he did his opponents instantly lost, so his feats are going to hold him back from his standing in the author's portrayal.

If you think Itachi at his peak was barely High Kage though, then you're not reading the manga clearly, because the author has made it obvious that Itachi was essentially the perfect shinobi with perfect tools at his disposal. Hence him always being held back.​


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

I have read the manga.
The difference is, I haven't done so with a skewed perception bent on idolizing a certain character.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

Then you're not reading it with Kishimoto's perception, which would make you wrong when it comes to canon.

Kishimoto constantly had his best characters hype Itachi ridiculously because Kishimoto himself is bent on idolizing him.

e.g.

_No_ Itachi fan would've argued Itachi had Hokage level wisdom at 7, except for Kishimoto.

_No_ Itachi fan would say Itachi puts Hashirama to shame as a shinobi, except Kishimoto.

_No_ Itachi fan would say Itachi could peer into people's souls during battle, except for Kishimoto.

etc.​


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

CT gatherng rocks is super fast , KN6 immediatly blitzed with his weak BD , and the result : CT is even larger . You need to completely destroy the attractive power accumlated in the center , otherwise you will lose .


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## Deer Lord (Oct 25, 2015)

Strategoob said:


> Then you're not reading it with Kishimoto's perception, which would make you wrong when it comes to canon.​


Being the perfect shinobi means nothing when fighting gods among man.

Anyone without fanboy vision can easily come to the same conclusions as I have.


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## Sadgoob (Oct 25, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> CT gatherng rocks is super fast , KN6 immediatly blitzed with his weak BD , and the result : CT is even larger . You need to completely destroy the attractive power accumlated in the center , otherwise you will lose .



The period I'm referring to is when Nagato/Deva is forming the black sphere in their hands for several moments. He doesn't use clones and he can't use other jutsu while doing so, leaving him vulnerable.

So without defense jutsu and being as immobile as he is, then it should stand to reason that a ninja as fast/smart as Itachi, with techniques as fast as Itachi, can capitalize on that weakness.​


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## hbcaptain (Oct 25, 2015)

That's why I talked about one condition , if Tendo has time to activate CT .


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## hbcaptain (Oct 28, 2015)

*Group 28 results :*

*War Arc Tsunade :*
71.41%

*Healthy Itachi :*
85.50%

*Muu :*
80.58%

*Gengetsu :*
76.25%

*Sandaime Raikage :*
79.54%


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## hbcaptain (Oct 28, 2015)

*Group 29 :*

Sage Kabuto
EMS Sasuke (unmastered EMS)
BM Naruto
War Arc Orochimaru (Zetsu cells+no Edo Tensei)
EMS Madara (w/o Kurama) .


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## t0xeus (Oct 28, 2015)

Sage Kabuto *90%* (great diversity of techniques, immortal by normal means etc)
EMS Sasuke *87%*
BM Naruto* 92%*
War Arc Orochimaru * 74%* (lol he's still same as the last Orochimaru we ranked if you restrict ET)
EMS Madara (w/o Kurama) *87%*


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## hbcaptain (Oct 28, 2015)

*Sage Kabuto :*
86%
He is maybe the most durable character in the manga after Juubi Jin's  , Senjutsu+Hozuki cells+Uzumaki cells+Kawarimi no Jutsu , hard hard to surpass him on that way , he is also really versatil with all his abilities , but clearly he is lucking fire power .

*EMS Sasuke (Unmastered) :*
85.50%
This is Sasuke vs Kabuto , with Unlegged V4 little Susano'o , he can spamm Enton , a little stronger than hsi older brother .

*BM Naruto :*
92%
His KCM version is really overrated . So , he is notibly faster , much more fire power in his chakra arms and punches , and his Bijuu form can take on PS physically (without swords) and BD can destroy at mountains range level .

*War Arc Orchimaru :*
79%
No Edo Tensei but he gained Hashi cells which raise drastically all his stats .

*EMS Madara :*
94%
Perfect Susano'o and other Susano'os version , Katon at a very high level , Taijutsu skills and Gumbai .... He is stronger than BM Naruto , plus he can beat Gokage in one shot .


----------



## Eliyua23 (Oct 28, 2015)

How on Earth is KCM Naruto above Obito w Rinnegan and MS when he couldnt even lay a finger on him and I dont see how he's stronger than Nagato either seeing as how he still got tripped up and had to be saved by Itachi , KCM Naruto wasn't really all that impressive and should be around SM Naruto at best matter of fact dat Clone with SM was outperforming KCM Naruto


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## Mercurial (Oct 29, 2015)

Sage Kabuto = 80%
EMS Sasuke (Unmastered) = 78%
BM Naruto = 89%
War Arc Orchimaru = 74%
EMS Madara = 94%


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 29, 2015)

Sage Kabuto = *89%*
EMS Sasuke (unmastered EMS)= *85%*
BM Naruto = *92%*
War Arc Orochimaru (Zetsu cells+no Edo Tensei) = *78*%
EMS Madara (w/o Kurama)= *93%*


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 29, 2015)

> EMS Sasuke (Unmastered) = 78%
> BM Naruto = 89%


What ?


----------



## Sadgoob (Oct 29, 2015)

*Sage Kabuto 92% = low Semi-God Tier*

Virtually unkillable, massive sage sound genjutsu, etc.

*EMS Sasuke 89% = high High Kage*

Susano'o Amaterasu gatling-gun & EMS = no stamina/eye issues. Aoda too.

*BM Naruto 95% = mid Semi-God Tier*

He smacked away multiple TBB like nothing.

*War Arc Orochimaru (Zetsu cells+no Edo Tensei) 80% = low High Kage*

With Hashirama's cells you can expect his normal ninjutsu, but bigger.

*EMS Madara (w/o Kurama) 99% = high Semi-God Tier*

When alive, he had enough speed to blitz past Sage Naruto.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2015)

Strategoob said:
			
		

> When alive, he had enough speed to blitz past Sage Naruto.


You are talking about War Arc Madara with the incridble boost of Rikudo like Chakra (transmigrant fusion) , VoE Madara can't be compared to his alive war arc version , plus Tobirama is faster than him and has better reflexes , he was the fastest Shinobis not Madara .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 30, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> What ?


does it honestly surprise you at this point?


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2015)

*Group 29 results :*

*Sage Kabuto :*
87.40%

*Unmastered EMS Sasuke :*
84.90%

*BM Naruto :*
92.00%

*War Arc Orochimaru :*
77.00%

*EMS Madara (w/o Kurama) :*
93.40%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2015)

*Group 30 :*

Hashirama Senju
Tobirama Senju
EMS Madara (with Kurama as a summoning)
Nagato Full Power (as we have seen against Naruto and Bee but he is alive)
Prime Hiruzen


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 30, 2015)

Hashirama Senju: *97.5%*
pretty much the strongest top-tier behind RT madara.
Tobirama Senju: *86%*
EMS Madara (with Kurama as a summoning): *96%*
Nagato Full Power : *90%*
Prime Hiruzen:  fanfic.


----------



## t0xeus (Oct 30, 2015)

*Hashirama Senju* *97%* (he's just a little bit stronger than ET Madara)

*Tobirama Senju* *88%* (sadly he seems like he's a better support more than anything)

*EMS Madara* (with Kurama as a summoning) *95.5%*

*Nagato* Full Power *92%* (he's really underrated on here)

Prime* Hiruzen* *81%* (I believe you mean Hiruzen with ET feats, if not then my answer is same as Deer Lord's.)

mfw 2 Madara incarnations are at the top of shinobi rankings


----------



## Mercurial (Oct 30, 2015)

Hashirama Senju = 100%
Tobirama Senju = 80%
EMS Madara (with Kurama as a summoning) = 97%
Nagato Full Power (as we have seen against Naruto and Bee but he is alive) = 82%
Prime Hiruzen = fanfiction... if I have to forcefully vote him I'll go with 73%


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2015)

*Hashirama Senju : *
98%
Alive War Arc Madara is by far faster than his base mode , and limbo makes him globaly notably stronger .

*Tobirama Senju :*
85%
Minato , Pain , Itachi and Tobirama are about the same level , but I would say Tobirama is slighly weaker than the fourth , a little slower and his FTG combos are weaker .

EMS Madara (with Kurama) :
*97.99%*
The databook was pretty clear , he and Hashirama are the same level . more than 1% gap between them is just totally inconsistent .

*Nagato Full Power :*
87.5%
He is stronger than Pain , his Jutsus are much faster according to Naruto .

*Prime Hiruzen :*
82%
5 chakra natures , all Konoha hiddens , extremelly smart , and surely extremely fast otherwise , he won't be the strongest among the previous Gokage .


----------



## Deer Lord (Oct 30, 2015)

97 is a bit much for nagato.


----------



## hbcaptain (Oct 30, 2015)

Sorry , it's 87.5% , just luck of attention . EMS Madara defintly stomps CT using his PS .


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

*Group 30 results ;*

*Hashirama Senju :*
98.12%

*Tobirama Senju : *
84.75%

*EMS Madara :*
96.62%

*Nagato Full Power : *
87.88%

*Prime Hiruzen : *He will not be added to the ranking .


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

*Group 31 :*

EMS Sasuke : (a little mastered when he was fighting in par with BSM Naruto) 
BSM Naruto :
JJ Obito :
KCM Minato
Tobi+Yamato


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 1, 2015)

*EMS Sasuke : *
*96%* (he's not stronger than Madara)

*BSM Naruto :*
*100%* (nukes, speed, defense, sensory, all at high level)

*JJ Obito :*
*105%* (you should probably add another group of percentages, we're running short on this one and we still have a lots of god tiers to rate)

*KCM Minato :*
*89%* (no firepower, rasengan's not enough on any opponent 90%+)

*Tobi+Yamato :*
*80%* (he gets 80% for effort of using such a powerful jutsu, but him getting stomped by Taka just makes him high level kage at best)


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

*EMS Sasuke :*
92%
The same level of BM Naruto . PS , Enton , great amount of chakra ...

*BSM Naruto :*
93%
Speed and reflexes are a little boosted , fire power is nearly the same of his BM version . Just a little stronger . Plus he can maintain his BM for 8 minutes now .

*JJ Obito :*
103%
Low god tier .

*KCM Minato :*
93%
He totaly blitz any 90- , his Shunshin and reflexes are above BM Naruto , he can use FTG combos , Jikkukan Kekkai to teleport any huge attack (Jinton , BD ,...) , BM Naruto is definitly losing to him since he is not touching him in his limit of 5 minutes , then he will just be totally outclassed by FTG+speed+Rasengan . But EMS Madara w/o Kurama is stronger than him since he lucks fire power . He needs BM to beat him .

*Tobi+Yamato :*
80%
He is stronger than weakened alliance + Gokage w/o their chakra . But Team Taka easily beat him .





			
				t0xeus said:
			
		

> you should probably add another group of percentages, we're running short on this one and we still have a lots of god tiers to rate


It's already done in the first post : 
100 to 110% : God tier


----------



## Mercurial (Nov 1, 2015)

EMS Sasuke : 85%
BSM Naruto : 96%
JJ Obito : 100%
KCM Minato : 87%
Tobi+Yamato: 78%


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

> KCM Minato : 87%


Wait what , Kakashi stronger than KCM Minato and just 2% above his base version and weaker than just MS Obito  ?


----------



## Mercurial (Nov 1, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Wait what , Kakashi stronger than KCM Minato and just 2% above his base version and weaker than just MS Obito  ?



I'm basing on first post average ratings, not mine, which I can not even remember lol. Also KCM Minato is basically Minato + chakra arms, he never showed more speed or power (even if he logically actually should have), KCM Minato against the Gedo Mazo couldn't do anything more than asking Kakashi to try to defeat him.

Minato could definitely lose to either Kakashi or Obito, I don't see the problem. He barely defeated young Obito.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> I'm basing on first post average ratings, not mine, which I can not even remember lol. Also KCM Minato is basically Minato + chakra arms, he never showed more speed or power (even if he logically actually should have), KCM Minato against the Gedo Mazo couldn't do anything more than asking Kakashi to try to defeat him.
> 
> Minato could definitely lose to either Kakashi or Obito, I don't see the problem. He barely defeated young Obito.


No KCM Minato = base Minato + much faster Shunshin + much better reflexes + much more chakra + chakra arms + Jutsu of a much higher calibre + much more durability + much more power .

And because of that , he has a much better timing , and much deadful FTG combos , Obito will be just fucked if he tried to absorb him because of the difference of speed and range . The two of them are not the same category . Plus KCM Minato below KCM Naruto  .


----------



## Vice (Nov 1, 2015)

Nagato below KCM Naruto despite mopping the floor with him and Killer Bee at the same time?


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 1, 2015)

KCM Naruto was weakened by clones use and he was alone against Nagato , Bee stragely didn't use his BM nor BD .


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 1, 2015)

EMS Sasuke : *91.5%*
BSM Naruto : *95%*
JJ Obito : *100%*
KCM Minato: *89%*
Tobi+Yamato: *80%*
And please, his name is Guruguru.


----------



## Kushina san (Nov 1, 2015)

IzayaOrihara said:


> *Sorry for being a diehard/hardcore Orochimaru fan, but i need justice.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rocky (Nov 1, 2015)

What the actual fuck is that post


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 1, 2015)

Rocky said:


> What the actual fuck is that post


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 1, 2015)

EMS Sasuke : 95% = mid Semi-god tier
BSM Naruto : 98% = high Semi-god tier
Jubito : 103% = low God tier
KCM Minato: 97% = high Semi-god tier 
Tobiamato: 80% = low High Kage


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 1, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> It's already done in the first post :
> 100 to 110% : God tier


It's not gonna be enough, Juubito is gonna be at 104% on average I guess and between him and Juudara is more than 6% difference, let alone Kaguya.


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 1, 2015)

Juubito is the benchmark for god tiers
he is the 100%.


----------



## Sadgoob (Nov 1, 2015)

I thought healthy Itachi was the benchmark.


----------



## Vice (Nov 1, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> It's not gonna be enough, Juubito is gonna be at 104% on average I guess and between him and Juudara is more than 6% difference, let alone Kaguya.



Juubito is currently at 102.17, he's gonna need quite a large bump to get to 104.


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## Vice (Nov 1, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Juubito is the benchmark for god tiers
> he is the 100%.



Well 8 Gates Guy is above him, but he wasn't counted for whatever reason.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 2, 2015)

*Group 31 results :*

*EMS Sasuke :*
91.90%

*BSM Naruto : *
96.20%

*JJ Obito :*
102.20

*KCM Minato :*
91.00%

*GuruguruYamato :*
79.60%


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 2, 2015)

*Group 32 :*

BM Minato :
War Arc Madara : (alive+one reel rinnegan) :
Chakra Obito : (A little of JJ Madara's power absorbed) :
Edo Hashirama (limited to his Edo feats) :
Black Zetsu : (alone without his white part so no Mokuton)


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## Deer Lord (Nov 2, 2015)

BM Minato : *95%*
War Arc Madara :  *99%*
Chakra Obito : (A little of JJ Madara's power absorbed) : no idea.
Edo Hashirama : same as normal really
Black Zetsu : he can't really do anything without a host...


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 2, 2015)

*BM Minato :*
97.5%
Base Minato >(>) SM Naruto => BM Minato>BSM Naruto .

*War Arc Madara :*
100%
Limbo , Rikudo Chakra and Chakra absorption , he is stronger than Hashirama .

*Chakra Obito : *
91%
I think his speed and reflexes are at BM Minato's level due to the part of Juubi's power , he can use week some GudoDama's Jutsu and Chakra arms plus Kamui .

*Edo Hashirama :*
94%
He can't use Mokujin in base , he needs Senjutsu to do so , he was the same level of EMS Madara w/o Kurama , add infinite chakra .

*Black Zetsu :*
80%
He can restrict the ennemy's moves and maybe struggle them , his reflexes and speed exceeds V2 Raikage .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 2, 2015)

*BM Minato :*
94%

*War Arc Madara :*?
*102%*
soloing several bijuus speaks for itself, reflexes to dodge even Hiraishin users etc

*Chakra Obito : *
*90%*
Onmyoton and Kamui

*Edo Hashirama :*
*95%*
No powerups except limitless chakra, but chakra isn't his problem without ET anyways

*Black Zetsu :*
*80%*
What hbcaptain said + immortality


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

*Group 32 results :*

*BM Minato :*
95.50%

*War Arc Madara : *
100.33%

*Chakra Obito :*
90.50%

*Edo Hashirama :*
94.50%

*Black Zetsu :*
80.00%


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## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

*Group 33 :*

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) :
Red Gai : (with limited 8 Gates time)
Rikudo Naruto :
Rikudo Sasuke : (w/o Bijuu)
War Arc Sakura :


----------



## ARGUS (Nov 3, 2015)

BM Minato - 93% 
Hashirama - 98% 
Madara - 99%
Obito - 87%

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) - 105% 
8th gate guy - 103% 
Rikudo Naruto - 110% 
Rikudo sasuke - 108% 
Sakura - 75%


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## Mercurial (Nov 3, 2015)

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) - 103%
Red Gai : (with limited 8 Gates time) - 105%
Rikudo Naruto - 107%
Rikudo sasuke (w/o Bijuu) - 105%
War Arc Sakura - 56%


----------



## Itachi san88 (Nov 3, 2015)

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) - 105%
Red Gai : (with limited 8 Gates time) - 101%
Rikudo Naruto - 108%
Rikudo sasuke (w/o Bijuu) - 107%
War Arc Sakura - 55%


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## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) : 105%
Red Gai : 103.5%
Rikudo Naruto : 107%
Rikudo Sasuke : 104%
War Arc Sakura : 52%


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 3, 2015)

JJ Madara (one rinnegan) : *105%*
Red Gai : *103%*
Rikudo Naruto : *106%*
Rikudo Sasuke : *105%*
War Arc Sakura : *58%*


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

*JJ Madara (one rinnegan) :
107%*
immortality, insane regeneration and senjutsu abilities cast at the speed of light (undodgable for 99% of opponents)

*Red Gai (with limited 8 Gates time) :
104%*

*Rikudo Naruto :*
*105%*
best firepower in the manga, good speed

*Rikudo Sasuke : (w/o Bijuu)*
*105%*
great speed, genjutsu and S/T

*War Arc Sakura :*
*59%*
not really versatile, but she was able to at least master 3 jutsus at a reasonable level




Raikiri19 said:


> JJ Madara (one rinnegan) - 103%
> Red Gai : (with limited 8 Gates time) - 105%



Why did you put Gai higher than JJ Madara?
Gai had support from 3 kage level characters and Lee and still didn't manage to defeat Madara.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

t0xeus said:
			
		

> Rikudo Naruto :
> 105%
> best firepower in the manga, good speed
> 
> ...


Sasuke needs the 9 Bijuu to reach a little Naruto's destructive power they are not equal , even with that he still losing to 9 RS .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Sasuke needs the 9 Bijuu to reach a little Naruto's destructive power they are not equal , even with that he still losing to 9 RS .



You don't need firepower when you have S/T. He can simply slash with his sword and teleport Naruto in front of him lmao.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

Naruto has much better reflexes , it will probably finish like Sage Madara vs Tobirama , but at Rikudou's level , plus Sasuke can't spamm his teleportation , he can't can Kurama avatar enhanced with great quantity of Rikudo's chakra with Kusanagi or simple Raiton , he can't avoid continent level explosions just by 10m Ameno . He is clearly lucking fire power .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

No reason why he wouldn't be able to blitz Naruto, it's an instant teleport, not even JJ Madara was able to react to it.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

No it was never like that it's not 100% teleporting but switching place with another object , plus Naruto reated to him in the manga that's an enoigh prove he can dodge him or at least use regeneration to heal damage that if he is damaged , even Chidori didn't any shit to him , his chakra armour is much more durable than JJ Madara's body . If not , he has no chance against Rikudo Kurama avatar + 9 RS .


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## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

Yeah, that's what he does when he wants to teleport himself, but he can also teleport enemies (as shown in the battle with Madara) and he didn't use that against Naruto in VotE II, so we can just speculate whether he would be able to react to that or not, as Madara had absolutely no idea he was even teleported.

It's whatever anyways, even if Naruto was little bit stronger than Sasuke because of firepower, it doesn't mean he deserves more percent, Sasuke has the best S/T in the whole manga (not counting Kaguya) for combat and can defeat every opponent that Naruto can defeat.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

Naruto has better Shunshin/reflexes , and not juts a little more fire power but he is at a whole another level , Sasuke will be just stomped against 9 RS , PS or not .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

Prove IC Naruto has better shunshin (just IC so not that BL Naruto page where he blitzes Kaguya please)?

And no, VotE II is proof that he wouldn't get stomped, he was doing fine the whole fight.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

Sasuke tried to hirt Kaguya using Ameno+Chidori combo and failed to touch her , that's an enough prove of his inferiority . And I wonder why you won't accept Naruto's feat against Kaguya , the same goes for VoE feats ....


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2015)

Kaguya's like 110%, I think it was quite obvious that she is more powerful than both Naruto&Sasuke, she was defeated by plot. That's a common knowledge though.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 3, 2015)

Yeah , Kaguya is stronger but not faster than Rikudo Naruto . Black Zetsu clearly said that she gained a lot of speed after absorbing the nine RS .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 4, 2015)

Whatever dude, we're getting too OT, we will discuss this another time. Sasuke will have less percent than Naruto anyways, as I am the only one who rated him even with Naruto.


----------



## Mercurial (Nov 4, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Why did you put Gai higher than JJ Madara?
> Gai had support from 3 kage level characters and Lee and still didn't manage to defeat Madara.



That support was just a way from Kishimoto to include a little teamwork, especially with Lee and Kakashi, who are related to Gai as his discipule and his best friend/rival. If you really think about that, how could Gudodama projectiles be even the slightest trouble for Gai with the 8th Gate unreleased, if he is able to outpace them with his lower Gated states already (when he jumped in and saved Kakashi)? Also, Kakashi was almost blind and tired/out of chakra, Minato was without both his fucking arms, Gaara and Lee, well, in a fight between God Tiers, out of plot purposes they are literally irrelevant. Not to mention that it never was a fight, in the sense that Gai ragdolled and stomped Madara all around all the time, Madara could just barely try to defend himself and just land a slight counterattack (judging by how Gai wasn't bleeding and didn't have his vest destroyed before the off panel of the fight and had that after, instead), but he was literally unable to do anything else than passively have to hold against Gai's onslaught. Add the fact that Madara admitted that Gai almost killed him with his taijutsu ougi that destroyed his chest/left side of the body, well I guess that if Gai aimed to the head, he would have killed him, and the fact he didn't is just PnJ/PIS, since Madara was completely unable to defend from the speed and the power of Gai's final attack, he was literally at Gai's mercy.

So I put 8th Gate Gai above 1 Rinnegan Juubi Madara (under Kaguya, DMS Rikudo Kakashi, Full Rinnegan Juubi Madara, Rikudo Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke) who is clearly above Juubi Obito.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 4, 2015)

No , without Team Minato work , red Gai was going to be blitzed by GudoDamas and killed before he can even touch Madara . Plus the manga clearly showed that he can't kill him .


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 4, 2015)

But he had a great defence against him, he can just shield himself from all sides with Gudodama, as he did against Gai's last attack, but Kakashi kamui'd the gudodamas out.

Madara was testing his strength the whole time, but he could have shielded himself from the beginning.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 4, 2015)

It's not that Madara didn't want to use GudoDama's shield but he simply couldn't against someone as fast as red Gai , forming a black shiel sur take a lot of time compared to Rikudo level guys .


----------



## Mercurial (Nov 5, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> No , without Team Minato work , red Gai was going to be blitzed by GudoDamas and killed before he can even touch Madara . Plus the manga clearly showed that he can't kill him .



So 3rd/4th/5th Gate Gai (we don't know precisely but it was under 6th for sure due to lookings) can outpace Gudodama with ease (when almost Minato, an almost blind Kakashi, and Rock Lee all can react to them with ease). But the much much much much much faster 8th Gate Gai cannot outpace them. Seems legit.

Madara admitted Gai could have definitely killed him with a hit directed on the chest, so it's easy to think that a hit directed on the head could have killed him on right off the bat. Yet the manga showed, and even clearly, that he can't kill him. Seems legit.





t0xeus said:


> But he had a great defence against him, he can just shield himself from all sides with Gudodama, as he did against Gai's last attack, but Kakashi kamui'd the gudodamas out.
> 
> Madara was testing his strength the whole time, but he could have shielded himself from the beginning.



Gai could break the Gudodama shield with just sending Madara's body through it with a residual part of the impact of Sekizo, which was took almost completely by Madara's body. Don't you think he could have destroyed the shield by focusing Sekizo on it? Because he doesn't have to punch directly the shield, so he is not risking to lose his limbs, he just sends air cannons on it.

Madara textually said "I have to be sure I not let myself hit" but Gai was ragdolling him all around. Madara simply couldn't do much.


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 5, 2015)

*Group 33 results :*

*JJ Madara (one rinnegan) :*
105.00%

*Red Gai :*
103.58%

*Rikudo Naruto :*
107.17%

*Rikudo Sasuke (w/o Bijuu) :*
105+67%

*War Arc Sakura :*
59.17%


----------



## hbcaptain (Nov 5, 2015)

*Goup 34 :*

JJ Madara (3eyed) :
Kaguya Otsutsuki :
Rikudo Kakashi : (with time limit)
Rikudo Sasuke : (with Bijuu chakra)


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

JJ Madara (3eyed) : *109%*
Kaguya Otsutsuki : *110%*
Rikudo Kakashi : *102%*
Rikudo Sasuke : (with Bijuu chakra) *108%*


----------



## t0xeus (Nov 5, 2015)

*JJ Madara (3eyed) :*
109%
*Kaguya Otsutsuki :*
110%
*Rikudo Kakashi : (with time limit)*
103%
*Rikudo Sasuke : (with Bijuu chakra)*
108%



Raikiri19 said:


> Madara sux hurr durr



Alright, Sekizo could break it, but as we've seen, it doesn't really kill Madara, so he needs to give him a direct hit in the head by Night Guy, but he needs to get a direct contact and that's when he needs to touch past the Gudodama shield, which he obviously can't. So how does he defeat him then?


----------



## Mercurial (Nov 5, 2015)

t0xeus said:


> Alright, Sekizo could break it, but as we've seen, it doesn't really kill Madara, so he needs to give him a direct hit in the head by Night Guy, but he needs to get a direct contact and that's when he needs to touch past the Gudodama shield, which he obviously can't. So how does he defeat him then?



Sekizo (air cannons) barrage on Gudodama shield to break it and then Night Guy blitz on defenseless Madara?


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## hbcaptain (Nov 5, 2015)

No it won't kill him , the manga has clearly shown that Sekizou isn't enough to break through GudoDama shield plus Madara's durability , same goes for Yagai , even I direct hit didn't kill him .


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## t0xeus (Nov 5, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Sekizo (air cannons) barrage on Gudodama shield to break it and then Night Guy blitz on defenseless Madara?



He can't do that, the pain he suffered made him unable to perform Sekizo without stopping, let alone doing two different techniques right after each other before Madara regenerates/creates another shield.

Or Madara simply blitzes him with Limbo whenever Gai stops because of pain.


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## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

looks perfectly intact to me


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## t0xeus (Nov 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> ...



???

Just the next page Gai needs assistance from not one, but 4 people to even hit Madara.


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## Itachi san88 (Nov 5, 2015)

JJ Madara (3eyed) :109
Kaguya Otsutsuki : 110
Rikudo Kakashi (with time limit): 104
Rikudo Sasuke  (with Bijuu chakra): 108


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## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

I know tox.
I posted that to prove the shield wasn't even damaged by multiple EE blows.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 5, 2015)

Raikiri said:
			
		

> So 3rd/4th/5th Gate Gai (we don't know precisely but it was under 6th for sure due to lookings) can outpace Gudodama with ease (when almost Minato, an almost blind Kakashi, and Rock Lee all can react to them with ease). But the much much much much much faster 8th Gate Gai cannot outpace them. Seems legit.


No any human can push away a metallic ball , but no one can beak it , the same logic is going for GudoDamas , anyone with any repelling Jutsu just a little strong is able to do the same .

And also , Gai was tens of times closer to Kakashi compared to the GudoDamas itselves faster than JJ Madara's Shunshin , that's why he had the time to repel it .





> Madara admitted Gai could have definitely killed him with a hit directed on the chest, so it's easy to think that a hit directed on the head could have killed him on right off the bat. Yet the manga showed, and even clearly, that he can't kill him. Seems legit.


No Madara said that many heats of that level would "maybe" kill him , and we have seen the result , Madara is still alive after 5 Sekizou + Yagai + Team Minato's help . The manga was pretty clear , red Gai can't kill Madara in that amount of time .


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## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

Why are you even debating this?
The manga literally says gai cannot beat him alone.


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## Mercurial (Nov 5, 2015)

JJ Madara (3eyed) :108
Kaguya Otsutsuki : 110
Rikudo DMS Kakashi (with time limit): 109
Rikudo Sasuke  (with Bijuu chakra): 106



t0xeus said:


> He can't do that, the pain he suffered made him unable to perform Sekizo without stopping, let alone doing two different techniques right after each other before Madara regenerates/creates another shield.
> 
> Or Madara simply blitzes him with Limbo whenever Gai stops because of pain.



He just needed to get accustomed to that level of pain. He quickly was able to do that and from that moment he never stopped or was unable to fight.



Deer Lord said:


> looks perfectly intact to me




Looks destroyed to me, and that's just the residual force of Sekizo since Madara's body absorbed most of the impact of the hit.



t0xeus said:


> ???
> 
> Just the next page Gai needs assistance from not one, but 4 people to even hit Madara.



The fact that one gets assistance doesn't need that one absolutely needs to be assisted.


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## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

Gudodamas are fragile from the inside
the same happened to toneri.

Stop struggling, manga contradicts you in every way possible.


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## Mercurial (Nov 5, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> _Gudodamas are fragile from the inside
> the same happened to toneri._
> 
> Stop struggling, manga contradicts you in every way possible.



What happened to Toneri?


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## Deer Lord (Nov 5, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> What happened to Toneri?


Naruto uses rasengan on toneri's gudodama shield ->tanks it
naruto goes underground beneath toneri's gudodama dome and sticks a rasengan at his face -> toneri is blown away and shatters the dome.

the same as in madara's case
I'm actually surprised this movie feat is consistent with the manga considering its kishi.


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## Ersa (Nov 5, 2015)

*JJ Madara (3eyed)*:
109%
*Kaguya Otsutsuki*:
110%
*Rikudo Kakashi : (with time limit)*
101%
*Rikudo Sasuke : (with Bijuu chakra)*
108%


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

*JJ Madara : (3eyed)*
109%
Double rinnegan + Sharinnegan make him able to use gravity Jutsu , and Kaguya's space-time ninjutsu , and also boosting him with an enourmous chakra quantity and quality .

*Kaguya Otsutsuki :*
110%
The strongest character .

*Rikudo Kakashi : *
104.00%
I wonder if he can beat Rikudou Naruto , but Rikudo Sasuke can surely escape Kamui using Ameno and PS to force Kakashi to use a large amount of chakra if he wants to win .

*Rikudo Sasuke (with Bijuu Chakra) :*
106.25%
He stills weaker than Rikudou Naruto using his full power .


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## Mercurial (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> *JJ Madara : (3eyed)*
> 109%
> Double rinnegan + Sharinnegan make him able to use gravity Jutsu , and Kaguya's space-time ninjutsu , and also boosting him with an enourmous chakra quantity and quality .
> 
> ...



Madara never showed to be able to use Amenominaka or Yomotsu Hirasaka, those jutsu are exclusive to Kaguya. Saying that he can use them is without any proof.

Kakashi alone did far better than Naruto + Sasuke against Kaguya, and Kakashi fought Kaguya when she was even powerful than before, as she absorbed a shit ton of chakra from the IT victims enpowering herself. The battle literally ended when Kakashi joined the fray, while it was completely blocked before, even if the enemy was weaker. That speaks miles in portrayal. Kakashi could defend himself from Kaguya, counter her attacks, attack and wound her, all by himself, against the most powerful version of Kaguya. Naruto could more or less do the same, but when Kaguya was less powerful. Sasuke was literally shat on, when he tried to attack he was negged, when Kaguya attacked him, she negged him.

Just think about, BM Naruto with a shit ton of chakra and raw power was still unable to defeat Obito who had just 1/2 of the Kamui Mangekyo Sharingan. Because defensive/supporting hax >>> his raw power. Give a shit ton of more chakra and raw power to Naruto, and still he isn't beating Obito's phasing, you need other things to defeat that (not saying that Rikudo Naruto doesn't beat MS Obito, I'm saying that increasing raw power against hax is useless). Give Obito all the powers granted by Kamui, offense, defense and supporting/mobility, plus a shit ton of raw power in Perfect Susanoo and Rikudo chakra, and make him be a skilled genius in Kakashi. Naruto can still have more chakra and raw power, but that's useless against hax he can't defend from or he can't defeat (Kamui Shuriken take out the clones, Kamui long range sniping is faster than he is, Kamui phasing and warping and self warping allow Kakashi to dodge and avoid whatever Naruto throws at him).

Sasuke was unable to do anything in time against Kaguya's S/T, and DMS Rikudo Kakashi's Kamui is much faster than that. The self warping is faster than Kaguya's S/T even when used by nearly dead Obito carrying two other people (Naruto's clone and Sakura) other than himself, so imagine if fresh Kakashi warps himself to appear behind Sasuke, Sasuke isn't even reacting, as he couldn't against a slower S/T. At that poing Kamui Raikiri kills Sasuke, Sasuke was slow compared to Kaguya who physically dodged his Chidori even from behind, while Kakashi dashed against Kaguya and struck her defenseless with Kamui Raikiri, even if it was said that she just powered her speed and might, with her unable to even try to dodge or to mount a counterattack, that would have been useless in first place due to phasing. Long range Kamui outspeeded Kaguya's S/T, which as said is too fast for Sasuke to defend, when it was started after Kaguya's S/T and still managed to warp its portal before it could even complete, making it look literally slow, which it isn't at all lol. Not to mention that Kakashi can spam Kamui, while Sasuke can't spam Amenotejikara, that has to be recharged to be used again, and that doesn't work out of a certain range, let's not forget this. Raw power is useless against Kakashi's defensive, offensive and supporting Kamui hax, for example even Bijuu powered Sasuke's most powerful attack is shit to Kakashi, since he casually phase through it, warps himself in the other dimension or warps the incoming attack away. Not to mention how Kakashi is also much smarter. But the difference in the performances of master and discipule, with Kakashi literally entering the fray and changing the flow of the battle by himself, and Sasuke getting shat on everytime, already tells us the difference in skill and power.



Deer Lord said:


> Naruto uses rasengan on toneri's gudodama shield ->tanks it
> naruto goes underground beneath toneri's gudodama dome and sticks a rasengan at his face -> toneri is blown away and shatters the dome.
> 
> the same as in madara's case
> I'm actually surprised this movie feat is consistent with the manga considering its kishi.



Couldn't be that Gudodama shield was simply weakened from the first attack and then broke from the second?


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 6, 2015)

Naruto didn't hit the shield the second time, he hit toneri and his body slammed through the shield.
plus it was a bigger shield the second time.


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## Mercurial (Nov 6, 2015)

Deer Lord said:


> Naruto didn't hit the shield the second time, he hit toneri and his body slammed through the shield.
> plus it was a bigger shield the second time.



Please put a link. I'm interested.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

Raikiri said:
			
		

> Madara never showed to be able to use Amenominaka or Yomotsu Hirasaka, those jutsu are exclusive to Kaguya. Saying that he can use them is without any proof.


Madara has Kaguya's Dojutsu in his front==> he can use Ameno and Yomotsu just like he used Kamui with Kakashi's MS .




> Kakashi alone did far better than Naruto + Sasuke against Kaguya, and Kakashi fought Kaguya when she was even powerful than before, as she absorbed a shit ton of chakra from the IT victims enpowering herself. The battle literally ended when Kakashi joined the fray, while it was completely blocked before, even if the enemy was weaker. That speaks miles in portrayal. Kakashi could defend himself from Kaguya, counter her attacks, attack and wound her, all by himself, against the most powerful version of Kaguya. Naruto could more or less do the same, but when Kaguya was less powerful. Sasuke was literally shat on, when he tried to attack he was negged, when Kaguya attacked him, she negged him.


Kaguya wasn't even looking at him , she was distracted by Naruto and Sasuke that's why Kakashi was able to touch her , otherwise that's not making any sens that he suddenly became faster than Rikudou Naruto just by a bit of Rikudou's chakra :
Naruto=Base charka Rikudou Senjutsu+BM chakra .
Kakashi=Base chakra+a little portion of Juubi's chakra .
He is ways below someone like Rikudo Naruto in raw moves and speed .
And yes Kakashi can stand alone against using his phasing ability but he can't win since she can also use S/T ninjutsu and the fact that she is much faster (just like BM Naruto against Obito) . Since the time is very limited (one chapter at most) , he will lose .





> Just think about, BM Naruto with a shit ton of chakra and raw power was still unable to defeat Obito who had just 1/2 of the Kamui Mangekyo Sharingan. Because defensive/supporting hax >>> his raw power. Give a shit ton of more chakra and raw power to Naruto, and still he isn't beating Obito's phasing, you need other things to defeat that (not saying that Rikudo Naruto doesn't beat MS Obito, I'm saying that increasing raw power against hax is useless). Give Obito all the powers granted by Kamui, offense, defense and supporting/mobility, plus a shit ton of raw power in Perfect Susanoo and Rikudo chakra, and make him be a skilled genius in Kakashi. Naruto can still have more chakra and raw power, but that's useless against hax he can't defend from or he can't defeat (Kamui Shuriken take out the clones, Kamui long range sniping is faster than he is, Kamui phasing and warping and self warping allow Kakashi to dodge and avoid whatever Naruto throws at him).


I agree BM Naruto can't touch Obito since he can easily react to him mentally , and he can use huge size Kamui (Kamui Shuriken) , but I don't think he has enough chakra to break throught all Rikudo Kurama's avatar and he can't detect clones from the originial , plus Naruto is notably beyond him in speed , he still can't win , the same goes for Sasuke , he ca teleport himself or simply switch Kamui's absorbing spiral with any object in the space . It would be a good fight if Kakashi can maintain his Rikudou mode , but he can't so he will lose the battle .


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## Mercurial (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Madara has Kaguya's Dojutsu in his front==> he can use Ameno and Yomotsu just like he used Kamui with Kakashi's MS .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then why the databook calls Amenominaka and Yomotsu only as Kaguya's jutsu. 

There's no excuse here, Naruto and Sasuke were in Kaguya's sight, beyond Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo. She was facing only Kakashi and tried to kill him, failing and getting blitzed by his counterattack. Emphasis was made by Kishimoto on Kakashi's speed and power, not on Kaguya being distracted by Naruto and Sasuke who arrived close to her only after Kakashi wounded her, not before. Kamui Raikiri is clearly hyped and described as a move that fuses Kamui phasing, Rikudo enhanced Raikiri and Rikudo enhanced speed.



You can also clearly see how Kaguya's speed is hyped as better than before (when she could already dodge Sasuke's Chidori post Amenotejikara and dance through an army of RSM Naruto's clones) and just some panels after that Kakashi blitzes her. That's to furtherly show his speed. I know that it doesn't make much sense if you think how much more Rikudo chakra Naruto and Sasuke received than Kakashi, but then it means that Rikudo chakra is related to quality and not to quantity: basically it doesn't mean how much Rikudo chakra you have, but the fact that you have it, it doesn't mean the quantity, and how good you are to use that.



Kaguya's S/T already proved to be shit compared to both self warping Kamui and long range Kamui sniping. And Kakashi already proved to be able to use Kamui quickly enough to warp her and Kamui Raikiri to wound her, and Kamui Shuriken to counter her attacks. Kamui also lets him phase trhough all of her attacks, no matter how powerful they are, and he is much smarter than she is. Yeah, sure as hell he can't defeat her by himself, since she can regenerate from even lethal wounds (long range Kamui head sniping, Kamui Raikiri blitzes and so on) and even if he warps her entire body in the Kamui dimension she will just come back thanks to Amenominaka, and in the end she will manage to survive his hax and outlast him. But he can hold his own against her and pressure her better than anyone else, that's what the manga showed.


----------



## Deer Lord (Nov 6, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Please put a link. I'm interested.


together 
Toneri blocks rasenhuriken at 0:34 with small shield
2:40 - 3:10 = toneri blocks rasengan barrage with a dome, then said dome is shattered when toenri eats a rasengan to his face.


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## Mercurial (Nov 6, 2015)

You're definitely right then, thanks for the link.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

*Group 34 results :*

*JJ Madara (3eyed) :*
108.83%

*Kaguya Otsutsuki :*
110.00%

*Rikudo Kakashi :*
103.83%

*Rikudo Sasuke (with Bijuu chakra) :*
107.38%


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

now , we go with the Bijuu and some summonings :

*Goup 1 :*

GamaKen :
Twins giant snake (used by Orochimaru in the sannin battle) :
War Arc Gamakichi :
Katsuyu (Bunta size) :
Ibuse (Hanzo's summoning) :


----------



## IzayaOrihara (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> now , we go with the Bijuu and some summonings :
> 
> *Goup 1 :*
> 
> ...


Top Tier Summoning:

1. 9 Bijuu/Manda 2 (im going by hype for Manda 2 cos his feats are lacking) / Gojuu Rashomon

1.5 Gedo Mazo (cant decide)

2. Manda/Bunta/Katsuyu (5%) Sanjuu Rashomon

3. San Kyodaija/Gamaken/Katsuyu (3.5%)/Pain's better summons

4. Twin Kyodaija/Gamahiro/Katsuyu (2%)/Ibuse/Pain's useless summons

5. Basic Kyodaija / Fodder Frogs/Katsuyu (0.5% [1 tenth of what was summoned at the Sannin fight]) / Rashomon

Now back to the main point .... People put Gaara way too high in this thread, putting him on the same level as Pain when he lost to Deidara who would lose to Sasori who would lose to Orochimaru who is on par with Jiraiya who is on par with Pain so wtf?
*Sorry for being a diehard/hardcore Orochimaru fan, but i need justice.*



hbcaptain said:


> 0 to 10% : Academy student .
> 10 to 20% : Gennin
> 20 to 30% : Low/Mid Chunin
> 30 to 40% : High level Chunin
> ...



THIS IS THE WAY I WOULD DO IT Ill just put a few examples

0 to 10% : Academy student . Any Shinobi that has no intent to kill or harm their opponent i.e. the Orochimaru that Itachi fought the first time
10 to 20% : Gennin
20 to 30% : Low/Mid Chunin 
30 to 40% : High level Chunin
40 to 50% : Low/Mid Jonin
this is all correct as you did

50 to 60% : High level Jonin Hidan (if he doesnt get blood [the plot allowed him to get Asuma's blood, because even Shikamaru didn't get scratched by Hidan] then he is useless so I'm putting him below the likes of Zabuza, Base Kabuto, Part 1 Kakashi etc etc), Konan without Prep Time, Part 1 Kakashi, Part 1/Early Part 2 Kabuto, Zabuza (at the bottom of this tier) 

59.9999999999% Borderline Kage - Start of Part 2 Kakashi, The Orochimaru that Sasuke fought and slightly above is the Orochimaru Itachi fought the second time, Bloodlusted Kabuto (he couldn't go all out against Rusty Tsunade since Orochimaru wanted her alive, so he got his ass kicked because of this, but is logically on this tier if going all out) Drugged Jiraiya and Rusty Tsunade right at the top of this tier

60 to 70% : Low Kage Konan with prep time, Orochimaru in the Sannin Fight (due to his overall performance, Part 1 Kabuto is somewhat included in this, to be fair), Immortal Arc Kakashi (at like 63%) 
70 to 80% : Average Kage (Basically everyone in Akatsuki bar Pain, Konan and Hidan, Rusty Tsunade once she has overcome her fear of blood, Start of Part 2 Orochimaru [who believe it or not, i believe is enough to defeat Itachi between leeching, extending kusanagi, oral rebirth and white snake poison] ) and Raikage also belongs on the higher end of this tier since he logically beats Itachi, possibly Kisame, definitely Kakuzu, most likely Sasori and theoretically Deidara, but then is outclassed by the Sannin. Ive explained why Itachi is on a tier below Sannin. So has Kishimoto cos when he wrote Itachi > Oro everyone listened but no Itachi fanboys listened when he wrote Itachi < JMan, Itachi < Hebi Sasuke, Hebi Sasuke < Orochimaru so my opinion stays the same.
80 to 90% : High level Kage Orochimaru with arms and Part 1 Edos (y'all need to give this guy a lot more credit and see him for the sum of his parts and not the scenes of the manga where Kishi was wanking Uchiha), Jiraiya (he starts at the bottom of this tier but skyrockets to the top in Sage Mode, right next to Orochimaru with Part 1 Edos and his arms not sealed), Tsunade (too skilled to be anywhere else and just plain downplayed), Onoki, Pain, Nagato (Edo; i can't figure out how strong Prime Nagato would be but he is at the top of this tier), Healthy Itachi (Part 1, and he is right at the bottom of this tier [borderline] with base Jiraiya)
90 to 100% : Semi-God tier War Arc Orochimaru, Juubito, Juudara
100 to 110% : God tier Rikudo Naruto, Recent Sasuke, Kaguya etc etc 

And as for percentages ... (THIS IS MY OPINION SO RESPECT PLEASE AND DONT BASH)
Im looking at these characters for the sum of their parts.

War Arc Orochimaru - 99%
Part 1 Orochimaru - 89%
Sage Mode Jiraiya - 86%
Six Paths of Pain - 83%
Part 2 Orochimaru - 83%
Full Power Tsunade - 82%
Base Jiraiya - 81%
Healthy Itachi - 80%
100% Kisame - 79.99999%
Killer Bee - 78.50%
Sasori 78%
Deidara 74.89%
Kakuzu 72%
Taka Sasuke - 69%
Hebi Sasuke 63%
Sick Itachi - 69%

You know what scrap that. I made this stupid percentage thing to show that percentages aren't a good way of measuring characters because you can beat people stronger than you i.e. Itachi beating Orochimaru, Hebi Sasuke beating Deidara (although this one was close) etc.

I think tier lists are the best way of looking at things. Ill highlight the controversial ones in red (or related ones in blue or another colour).

If i'm missing anyone important please let me know.


*10 - GOD TIER*
Kaguya, Toneri (i havent seen the new movie so i'm just assuming), Momoshiki (and same here), Kinishiki (is that even the correct spelling, like i said, i know them by name and im just guessing they are in this tier) Hagoromo (featless but belongs here regardless), Prime Hiruzen (lol just joking, hes in the High Kage Tier at no. 7), 
*9 - TRANSCENDENT TIER*
Hashirama Senju (Sage Mode), Madara Uchiha (VOTE), Edo Madara, Jinchuriki Madara (higher up in the tier), RM Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke, Asura Ōtsutsuki, Indra Ōtsutsuki.
*8 - TOP KAGE TIER*
KCM Minato, Tobirama (if we go simply by portrayal and his massive hype), Hashirama Senju (Base), Madara Uchiha (EMS), EMS Sasuke (PS but no Rinnegan)
*7 - HIGH KAGE TIER*
Prime Hiruzen (in theory) Part 1 Orochimaru (Healthy), Part 1 Itachi (Healthy)*/*Edo Itachi (Same As Healthy Itachi), Kabuto Yakushi (Sage Mode) Sage Mode Jiraiya, The Six Paths of Pein, Minato Namikaze (Base, no SM/Kyuubi), Tobirama (if we consider feats and a bit of hype), EMS Sasuke (Before PS and Rinnegan), KCM/BM Naruto (i'm not sure if he's here or in the tier above, because EMS Sasuke needed power ups to compete), KCM Naruto (the one from the Edo Nagato fight, at the bottom of this tier)
*6 - MID KAGE TIER*
Part 2 Orochimaru (Nerfed), Hebi Sasuke (CS2/Going All Out), Part 2 Itachi (Sick), Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, Kisame, Might Guy (8th gate [once you get beaten to a pulp you may be gasping for your breath but Guy then dies and therefore you are still the last man standing, based on the one showing that power has had {Madara didnt regenerate until after and his normal human skin isnt more durable than the likes of Kakuzu, Orochimaru, Tsunade, even Jiraiya based on his feats against Pain's summon} so i'm sorry but i cant place Guy any higher than this]), Onoki??? (barely, Jinton is just a gimick technique that can be easily evaded or defended against. I wont explain it here but message me / say in a reply to this post, if you want the full explanation; considering that, he's barely in this tier, in my opinion Deidara surpassed him just like Orochimaru surpassed Hiruzen and Sasori surpassed Chiyo.), Tobirama (if we go purely by feats)
*5 - LOW KAGE TIER*
Onoki (maybe he fits more here once you look past the false hype), Old Hiruzen, Rusty Tsunade (when she recovered from Phobia), Drugged Jiraiya (when he started to be able to mould chakra properly again, Sannin Fight Orochimaru (Double Nerfed; Kabuto helpnig summon snakes is included as a part of this power) CS2 Kimimaro, CS2 Jugo, Hebi Sasuke (Base), Konan (Prep Time), Might Guy (1 - 7 gates [He's down here since he didn't beat a full powered Kisame]), Mei Terumi, Killer Bee, Raikage, Gaara (he is so f*cking overrated its not even funny these days) Mū (honestly, by feats he's inferior to Ōnoki), Sandaime Raikage (he's just as overrated as his son is, any Sannin/Akatsuki can beat him), Chiyo (with Puppets), Four-Tailed Naruto (did alright against Part 2 Orochimaru, a Mid Kage, and would pose a threat to any Akatsuki member except Pain, but isn't exactly on the same tier as them if you know what i mean), All Jinchurikis 2 - 7 (the strongest one of them was theoretically Yagura, and he was sated to be weaker than old hiruzen, plus, Yugito, Roshi, Gaara and Sanbi on its own were comfortably defeated by Mid-Kage level Akatsuki Members), Third Kazekage (he was defeated a weaker Sasori than we know; its a shame the other villages' strongest Kages weren't on par with Konoha's strongest Hokage) Rasa (not the Kazekage, his new name is fodderkage)
*4 - ELITE JŌNIN TIER*
Kimimaro Kaguya, Jugo, Deathbed Orochimaru (Triple Nerfed), Sannin Fight Orochimaru (with no snake summoning help from Kabuto), Rusty Tsunade (when she had phobia and just started fighting for the first time after 20 years), Drugged Jiraiya (when he wasn't able to control chakra properly and had slowed movements), Pre-Hebi Sasuke, Konan (No Prep Time), Hidan, Kabuto Yakushi (Part 1 / Early Part 2), Part 1 Kakashi Hatake (Lower end of this tier), Early Part 2 Kakashi Hatake (higher end of this tier), Might Guy (1 Gate at least), Rasa (like, he was fodder, i dont even think he deserves to be a Kage, and what people usually fail to realise is that the village has to select a Kage whether they have someone of that calibre or not; for me, its difficult to decide where he lies; he can beat any Jonin but he is the weakest Kage level shinobi), Base Chiyo (solid Taijutsu, good medics, countered 30% Itachi [thats an impressive feat, considering the wank] able to counter Hanzo's poisons, fought on par with young Tsunade so she deserves to be here. Chiyo with puppets, who i'll just call Chiyo, belongs up above in the Low Kage Tier), Base Part 2 Naruto (one to three tails; did alright against Deidara), Suigetsu Hozuki (when using Suiton: Tate Eboshī), Bloodlusted Zabuza (he deserves this much credit)
*3 - JŌNIN TIER*
CS2 Jirobo, CS2 Kidomaru, CS2 Tayuya, CS2 Sakon, Asuma Sarutobi, Kurenai Yuhi, Might Guy (Base) Kabuto Holding Back (if he didnt he could have killed Rusty Tsunade so the real Kabuto is in the tier above, where he is said to be, with Kakashi etc, and some say he was scared of Kakashi, the Kabuto that is scared of Kakashi is this one, not the one in the Elite Jōnin Tier.), Shizune (she is right at the bottom of this tier), Zabuza Momoshi, Part 1 Gaara (he deserves to be here, he dealt with Kimimaro until the latter entered CS2, then he was outclassed), Part 1 Naruto (he extreme diffed an Elite Jonin [Kabuto] and practically defeated Shukaku [although not at full power]), Suigetsu Hozuki (Base), SRA Neji, Part 2 Shikamaru, End of Part 1 CS2 Sasuke, Gated Lee
*2 - CHŪNIN TIER*
Jirobo of the South Gate, Kidomaru of the East Gate, Tayuya of the North Gate, Sakon of the West Gate, SRA Neji, Drunken Lee, Haku, CS1 Sasuke, Yoroi Akado, Misumi Tsurugi,
*1 - GENIN TIER*
Part 1 Konoha 11 (bar Naruto and Sasuke), 
*0 - WORTHLESS TIER*
Any ninja who has no killing intent so basically isn't actually fighting their opponent (if that opponent wins they deserve no credit whatsoever as anyone could have done so), for example the Orochimaru that fought Itachi 10 years prior to Shippuden. He had no intent to hurt a hair on the body he wanted to take over (yet still trolled the Genjjtsu thrown at him, lol, and regenerated the hand that got cut off, even more lol, man, Itachi is so overrated i just cant get over it, rofllolmfao).


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## Vice (Nov 6, 2015)

We still don't have any part 2 Lee or Neji ratings, just wanted to point that out.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 6, 2015)

Yeah , sorry  ^^' , we will mark them after this group .


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## t0xeus (Nov 6, 2015)

Kinda hard to rate summons, but I will try regardless.

Except Katsuyu, I rated summons by what tier would be able to beat them, so for an example when I put Gamaken on 60%, it means that you would need Low Kage (60%) opponent to beat Gamaken.

*GamaKen :*
*60%*

*Twins giant snake (used by Orochimaru in the sannin battle) :*
*40%*

*War Arc Gamakichi :*
*60%*

*Katsuyu (Bunta size) :*
*75%*
- great healing&chakra support, immortal, can apply lethal damage by her acid
- actually better ally than most low-kage tier shinobi

*Ibuse (Hanzo's summoning) :*
*50%*


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## Mercurial (Nov 6, 2015)

GamaKen : 49%
Twins giant snake (used by Orochimaru in the sannin battle) : 40%
War Arc Gamakichi : 50%
Katsuyu (Bunta size) : 52%
Ibuse (Hanzo's summoning) : 47%


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## ARGUS (Nov 6, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> No it won't kill him ,* the manga has clearly shown that Sekizou isn't enough to break through GudoDama shield plus Madara's durability* , same goes for Yagai , even I direct hit didn't kill him .



Loll. The strike was so strong that it first hit madara and then its impact eradicated the TSB shield


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## hbcaptain (Nov 7, 2015)

Yeah thanks Minato for teleporting the Gudodama and Kakashi to break the shield .


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## ARGUS (Nov 7, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> Yeah thanks Minato for teleporting the Gudodama and Kakashi to break the shield .



Uhh no 
Kakashi warped the shield to create the opening 
But *guys fist first went through Madara and then the impact eradicated his entire shield*

Minato and Kakashi had nothing to do with guys attack eradicating the defense


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## hbcaptain (Nov 7, 2015)

4 consecutive Sekizou didn't even breach an uncomplete shield , Madara probably make the shield much less durable so he can tank the attack before he got hitted .


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## hbcaptain (Nov 7, 2015)

*GamaKen :*
*49%*

*Twins giant snake (used by Orochimaru in the sannin battle) :*
*45%*

*War Arc Gamakichi :*
*50%*

*Katsuyu (Bunta size) :*
*55%*
She can tank many attacks but she is lucking speed .

*Ibuse (Hanzo's summoning) :*
*62%*[/QUOTE]
Her sudden poison cloud can kill a lot of high Jonin and Kag level .

______________​
*Group 1 results :*

*Gamaken :*
52.67%

*Twins giant snakes :*
41.67%

*War Arc Gamaichi :*
53.33%

*Bijuu size Katsuyu :*
60.67%

*Ibuse :*
53.00%


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## hbcaptain (Nov 7, 2015)

*Group 2 :*

War Arc Neji :
War Arc Lee :
War Arc Tenten (with Rikudou tool) :
GamaBunta : 
Manda :


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## Shinobi no Kami (Nov 7, 2015)

there are a lot of things wrong with this.

sasuke without biju chakra is too high considering that his PS has no feats over madaras other than PS chidori.
both hashirama and madara w/kurama would be above sasuke without biju chakra. kakashi may be above sasuke as well, but below hashirama and madara.
sasuke wouldnt even be above obito considering that he possesses no senjutsu.

gai is too high. he cant counter truthseekers, so he cant beat any juubi jin 1v1.

im not sure what living one eye madara is doing in "god tier" when his strongest offensive tech is V3 susano. no, limbo doesnt compete with any top tier mechas. 

edo hashirama being below edo madara, BSM naruto and minato is laughable. ems madara being below BSM naruto or minato is sig worthy.

why is spiral zetsu w/ yamato below the likes of bee and kakashi when hiruzen, onoki, Ei, mei, tsunade+kurama cloaked konoha 11+kurama cloaked alliance army couldnt take him down?

he is above every shinobi in the "high kage" tier.

>kinkaku+ginkaku lower than pain arc kakashi. 

>biju sized katsuyu massively above war arc gamakichi. 

>kcm naruto above spiral zetsu w/ yamato, 3rd raikage, minato, bee, tobirama, itachi, sasuke, sage kabuto, nagato_(and arguably pain since he still has no counter to CT in this form)_ and rinnegan obito. 


this seems more like a glorified wank thread instead of a legitimate attempt to make something accurate.


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## Jad (Nov 7, 2015)

I don't know why people keep forgetting but Gai snapped the Gudodama Staff in half with just his pure speed.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 8, 2015)

> sasuke without biju chakra is too high considering that his PS has no feats over madaras other than PS chidori.
> both hashirama and madara w/kurama would be above sasuke without biju chakra. kakashi may be above sasuke as well, but below hashirama and madara.


His PS cut giant meteors that EMS Madara can never dream on slicing them that easily .
Rikudou PS>>EMS PS
And no Rikduo Sasue definitly stomps SS with his PS .




> sasuke wouldnt even be above obito considering that he possesses no senjutsu.


But he has half of Rikudo's chakra , EMS and Tomoe Rinnegan who is even stronger than a normal rinnegan 



> gai is too high. he cant counter truthseekers, so he cant beat any juubi jin 1v1.


JJ Obito isn't as durable as JJ Madara , so he got a chance to beat him since he needs a little time to create the GudoDama shield , probably more than Madara . 



> im not sure what living one eye madara is doing in "god tier" when his strongest offensive tech is V3 susano. no, limbo doesnt compete with any top tier mechas.


Why wouldn't be able to use PS , plus he has Limbo , he can beat Hashirama just using that Jutsu .



> edo hashirama being below edo madara, BSM naruto and minato is laughable. ems madara being below BSM naruto or minato is sig worthy.


Edo Hashirama is limited to his War Arc feats , his strongest Jutsu is a Senjutsu Mokujin , BM Minato is faster , smarter can enhance his FTG at Bijuu level battle , his can use BD and a lot of powerful Fuinjutsu , I don't see why Edo Hashirama would be stronger than him , but you are right about BSM Naruto he is too high .



> why is spiral zetsu w/ yamato below the likes of bee and kakashi when hiruzen, onoki, Ei, mei, tsunade+kurama cloaked konoha 11+kurama cloaked alliance army couldnt take him down?


Kamui gg



> he is above every shinobi in the "high kage" tier.


Lol he instantly lost to Karin who is << to Kushina .



> >kinkaku+ginkaku lower than pain arc kakashi.


Kinkaku and Ginkaku are really hard to mark .




> >biju sized katsuyu massively above war arc gamakichi.


I don't understand eigther , Katsuyu is more support summoning than a fighter like Bunta .



> >kcm naruto above spiral zetsu w/ yamato, 3rd raikage, minato, bee, tobirama, itachi, sasuke, sage kabuto, nagato_(and arguably pain since he still has no counter to CT in this form)_ and rinnegan obito.


Yeah I agree , KCM Naruto is overrated .


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## Deer Lord (Nov 8, 2015)

War Arc Neji : *47%*
War Arc Lee : *49%*
War Arc Tenten (with Rikudou tool) : *33%*


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## Shinobi no Kami (Nov 8, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> His PS cut giant meteors that EMS Madara can never dream on slicing them that easily .
> Rikudou PS>>EMS PS
> And no Rikduo Sasue definitly stomps SS with his PS .


he cut meteors that madara cant? where did this happen?

you talking about these meteors, which arent even 5 mountains wide?


the spread out fragments covering a mountain range, something that madaras PS easily mows down.



there is no difference between madaras and sasukes PS outside of the unigue abilities that each give their PS. that pretty much goes for all PS users in general.
each slash of madaras PS would cleave through a meteor in its entirety.

sasukes PS slicing up shinsuusenju is a joke.


> But he has half of Rikudo's chakra , EMS and Tomoe Rinnegan who is even stronger than a normal rinnegan


he *had* half of hagoromos chakra via the yin seal. we blatantly saw him drawing hagoromos power from the yin seal to enhance his jutsus, which he lost after six paths CT. how can any sane person claim that he still has half of hagoromos chakra?


 sasuke possesses the sharingan and the rinnegan which possesses six paths power. the tomoe variant is no stronger than the dual variant.



> JJ Obito isn't as durable as JJ Madara , so he got a chance to beat him since he needs a little time to create the GudoDama shield , probably more than Madara .


why would obitos truthseekers be slower to change form than madaras? that makes no sense.



> Why wouldn't be able to use PS , plus he has Limbo , he can beat Hashirama just using that Jutsu .


he cant use PS because he needs both eyes to use  his full power. 




> Edo Hashirama is limited to his War Arc feats , his strongest Jutsu is a Senjutsu Mokujin , BM Minato is faster , smarter can enhance his FTG at Bijuu level battle , his can use BD and a lot of powerful Fuinjutsu , I don't see why Edo Hashirama would be stronger than him , but you are right about BSM Naruto he is too high .


why? hashirama can easily react to minato attacking after he warps with hiraishin. madara did this to a more reflexive tobirama and destroyed him easily.
there isnt any reason that the mokujin doesnt just smack kurama everytime it warps near him. 

mokujin=PS>>biju in size. all of minatos bijudama get smacked away with no effort or is simply tanked by the mokujin/hobi.



> Kamui gg




he couldnt do this to asura path or deva yet does this to spiral zetsu?

zetsus buddha fires all 5 elements at kakashi and he gets subsequently disintegrated.




> Lol he instantly lost to Karin who is << to Kushina .


he didnt lose to karin. she broke some hands on his buddha, then suigetsu blindsided him, the orochimaru bound him temporarily with a curse seal. all they did was run by him.



> Kinkaku and Ginkaku are really hard to mark .


not really. together, putting tobirama near death puts them far over kakashis level.


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## hbcaptain (Nov 8, 2015)

*Spoiler*: __ 









And Sasuke can can 3/4 times larger than any piece of meteor , his Rikudo PS is clearly at another level compared to EMS Madara . Even the Kyubizord isn't reaching his level . 



> he had half of hagoromos chakra via the yin seal. we blatantly saw him drawing hagoromos power from the yin seal to enhance his jutsus, which he lost after six paths CT. how can any sane person claim that he still has half of hagoromos chakra?


Sasuke had Rikudo chakra in his hand when he fought Naruto , it's just he used all of it in Rikudo CT , he just need time to recover it just like any shinobis or chakra user . And even without it ,he still have Tomoe Rinnegan+EMS , so basically he is much stronger than EMS Madara+Kurama .



> why would obitos truthseekers be slower to change form than madaras? that makes no sense.


Because Madara has much more talent and stronger Juubi's version , Minato said that he feels more Rikudo power .



> he cant use PS because he needs both eyes to use his full power.


Limbo alone stomps even if he can't use PS .



> why? hashirama can easily react to minato attacking after he warps with hiraishin. madara did this to a more reflexive tobirama and destroyed him easily.
> there isnt any reason that the mokujin doesnt just smack kurama everytime it warps near him.
> 
> mokujin=PS>>biju in size. all of minatos bijudama get smacked away with no effort or is simply tanked by the mokujin/hobi.


No Minato can teleport Mokujin out of his way , track him using Kurama's detection and blitz him using BD , and no KCM Minato will just fu.. Hashirama in CQC Senjusu or not .




> mokujin=PS>>biju in size. all of minatos bijudama get smacked away with no effort or is simply tanked by the mokujin/hobi.


Mokujin is bigger , I would say 2/3 times , but Kurama's avatar charka is much more powerful since he is more concentrated , remember what said Gyuki about that . If yo add space-time ninjutsu and speed , sorry ut Minato stomps here .



> he didnt lose to karin. she broke some hands on his buddha, then suigetsu blindsided him, the orochimaru bound him temporarily with a curse seal. all they did was run by him.


He got cleaned in ne shot by Team Taka , any high Kage level can do the same .





> he couldnt do this to asura path or deva yet does this to spiral zetsu?
> 
> zetsus buddha fires all 5 elements at kakashi and he gets subsequently disintegrated.


You are talking about Pain Arc Kakashi who is by far weaker than his War Arc version since he use Kamui in offense .



> not really. together, putting tobirama near death puts them far over kakashis level.


I totaly agree with you , but Darui's feats affetec their mark , lot of people based their marks on that .


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## Shinobi no Kami (Nov 8, 2015)

hbcaptain said:


> *Spoiler*: __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this was already countered. what dont you understand? 

a full meteor is *less than five mountains wide*.

thus madaras PS easily cuts through them.

the *spread out* fragments cover the area of a mountain range.


thus madaras PS slices through all of the debris in the second panel.

*are you saying that madaras PS shockwave does not have enough distance to go through 5 mountains?*




> *Sasuke had Rikudo chakra in his hand when he fought Naruto , it's just he used all of it in Rikudo CT , he just need time to recover it just like any shinobis or chakra user . *And even without it ,he still have Tomoe Rinnegan+EMS , so basically he is much stronger than EMS Madara+Kurama .


absolutely incorrect.

the yin seal went back to hagoromo after six paths CT, obviously along with all of hagoromos chakra stored inside of the seal. sasuke lost it completely.



no, the yin seals chakra didnt "regenerate" in sasukes hand. he never had the seal again after losing it.



> Because Madara has much more talent and stronger Juubi's version , Minato said that he feels more Rikudo power .


doesnt prove that madaras truthseekers can change form faster than obitos.



> Limbo alone stomps even if he can't use PS .






> No Minato can teleport Mokujin out of his way , track him using Kurama's detection and blitz him using BD , and no KCM Minato will just fu.. Hashirama in CQC Senjusu or not .


how is he teleporting the mokujin without it being marked or connected to his chakra in any way? 

minato isnt doing anything to hashirama in cqc. he is inferior to tobirama reflexively. this isnt hard to understand.


against obito.





madara easily destroys tobirama in cqc, therefore hashirama does the same and he does even worse to the* less reflexive* minato.


> Mokujin is bigger , I would say 2/3 times , but Kurama's avatar charka is much more powerful since he is more concentrated , remember what said Gyuki about that . If yo add space-time ninjutsu and speed , sorry ut Minato stomps here .


gyuuki was referring to the juubi specifically. the juubi specifically cannot focus its own power. the same was never said for bijus 1-9. if kurama tries to attack the mokujin, it gets smacked across the battlefield.



> He got cleaned in ne shot by Team Taka , any high Kage level can do the same .


which is why 4 kage+hiruzen+k11+alliance couldnt do the same?

taka didnt defeat zetsu anyway. stop acting like they did.




> You are talking about Pain Arc Kakashi who is by far weaker than his War Arc version since he use Kamui in offense .


uses kamui offensively against what? the gedo mazo?



> I totaly agree with you , but Darui's feats affetec their mark , lot of people based their marks on that .


what about their performance vs darui? he cant even touch one of them when they use kuramas chakra let alone both.


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## Vice (Nov 10, 2015)

This still a thing?


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## t0xeus (Nov 14, 2015)

Vice said:


> This still a thing?



Seems like not anymore.


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## Tony1010 (Jul 16, 2016)

SOS KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK 

 

Karin YUGAO Shizune SAMUI AOBA HAYATE GENMA >>> Tenten ? 

OH MY GODDDDDDDD


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## Lord Trollbias (Jul 16, 2016)

You necro'd this thread to stan for Tenten?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## ARGUS (Jul 16, 2016)

Kaguya - 110% 

Jin Madara - 107% 

Naruto - 105% 

Sasuke - 102%

Kakashi - 97%


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## Tony1010 (Jul 16, 2016)

Yes, some dear problem? 

Tenten appears more that Yagura. 

Who are you to name Tenten? 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will make a rank level Chunnin and Jounin.

Jounin Elite:

Hiashi 
Darui
Hidan
Yamato
Lee
Neji
Chouji

Jounin:

Tenten
Temari
Kankuro
Kiba
Asuma
Shino
Hinata
Sakon/Ukon
Kidomaru
Tayuya
Jirobo

Chuunin: 

Ino 
Kurenai 
Anko
Shizune
Konohamaru 
Hayate 
Izumo
Kotetsu


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## Sapherosth (Jul 16, 2016)

Tony1010 said:


> Yes, some dear problem?
> 
> Tenten appears more that Yagura.
> 
> ...




How the hell are they chunin levels?


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## Tony1010 (Jul 16, 2016)

Ino is more support than combatant.

Kurenai has Genjutsu short range. He died in the Classic.

Anko has snakes that only go up to 5 meters.

Shzune has very little fog in the manga, which is dissipated by 1 targe.


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## Lord Trollbias (Jul 16, 2016)

Two actual Jounins, and a Special Jounin who also happened to be Orochimaru's apprentice in the past are somehow at the mere Chunnin Level?


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## Tony1010 (Jul 16, 2016)

Yes, they are. In fights, yes.

Samui is a Jounin with Genin level.

Ebisu is a Jounin with Genin level.

Tenten in War is cited in DB4 as the '' Elite '', then certainly a ''Chuunin Elite'' would have Jounin level. She imagines adult.

Boruto is quoted as ''Genin Elite'' and the novel mentions that level would Chuunin.


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## Eli 2000 (Jul 16, 2016)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> sasuke without biju chakra is too high considering that his PS has no feats over madaras other than PS chidori.
> both hashirama and madara w/kurama would be above sasuke without biju chakra. kakashi may be above sasuke as well, but below hashirama and madara.
> sasuke wouldnt even be above obito considering that he possesses no senjutsu.


Stopped reading here .
- " Sasuke's susanoo has no feats over madara's susanoo ".
- " Rinnegan Sasuke is below hashirama and kyuubisanoo madara , and kakashi above Rinnegan sasuke " .

A- Sasuke's susanoo was tearing apart a bunsh of an island sized meteors , each piece of those meteors dwarfs mountain ranges in size , while madara's susanoo best feat is cutting apart 6-7 mountains at valley of the end .
B- Madara and his Kyuubi eats a Rinnegan genjutsu and die , Rinnegan is > EMS , so Madara isn't breaking out of it , sasuke then shift him mid-strike , and shoves a chidori in his head . Hashirama shares the same fate .
C- Sasuke was stated to be *equal* to Naruto who according to the Canon manga *surpassed* all the previous Hokages including Hashirama who's already above Kyuubisanoo Madara .

Congratulations on making yourself look like a fool .


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## t0xeus (Aug 24, 2016)

Shining Force said:


> Should have included new era characters like Toneri, Momoshiki, Kinshiki etc.


Pls no, don't ruin it. It's covering the whole manga up to chapter 699 and that's what most of us really care about.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Eliyua23 (Aug 24, 2016)

In terms of skill Boruto, Sarada, Mitsuki are low Jounin/High Chunnin around team 7 SOS

MS, Sage Mode users like Kabuto , Itachi , Jiraiya , Naruto(Pain Arc), Sasuke(Danzo Arc) are on the top of high tier 

Minato, Nagato , Obito(Pre Rinnegan) are Low Gawd Tiers 

BM Naruto , Hashirama, EMS Sasuke , EMS Madara, Rikudo Sons , solid Gawd Tiers 

Naruto(Six Paths), Sasuke(Rinnegan), Kaguya , Movie villains are high Gawd Tiers


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