# The Battledome Challenger Arena vol2



## t0xeus (Apr 2, 2020)

NBD used to have a place for everyone who wanted to debate another poster on a topic of their choosing, with unbiased judges proclaiming the winner after a constructive debate took place.
Somehow that concept faded away, so I decided to try and bring it back. 

Have you seen someone biased downplay your fav? Have you seen someone wank the fuck out of their fav?
Challenge them to a match-up of your choosing, and have a constructive debate where you slap some sense into them.

Credit goes to @Sapherosth for the idea, concept and the following text:​
Identify all these key criteria:
E.g.

*I challenge : *[insert poster name or names] - This can be a 1v1, 2v2 or even 3v3!
*Match:* [Insert match e.g. Orochimaru vs Jiraiya]
*Location:
Knowledge:
Distance:
Restrictions:*

Introduce any other criteria that you deem appropriate.

Challenge whoever you want, and if they accept, I'll create a thread just for you two to duke it out for all of us to see.

Once the thread for the match has been created, *I ask that those who are not involved refrain from posting in it*, since we only want to see those involved duke it out. *You must be willing to commit*, otherwise it'll be no different than the normal stuff we already have.

Each post has to be at least 500 words and under 1500 words. Any lower/higher than this then it's not entertaining. Try to be creative with your matches, bring new ideas/panels/perspectives into this so *maybe *we might learn something we don't already know.

Judges will be chosen for each match, and both contestants have to agree on the choices.

*Do not clog this thread with irrelevant posts. Only post a Challenge, Accept or Deny.*



*Spoiler*: _Judging Criteria_ 





Analysis (The level of thinking and analysis)
Creativity (The creativity)
Structure (The structure/flow of argument/Visually appealing)
Factual (Are they using logical/factual contents from the manga?)
Persuasiveness (How persuasive were they? Did they convince you?)

On the basis of S, A, B, C (+/-)

For example:
*Analysis - S+*
(Followed by reason - How far did they go to analyse a situation? The level of thinking and detail?)

*Creativity - A-*
(Followed by reason - New methods of winning that you didn't previously thought of? Combinations that you didn't know existed?)

*Structure - B+*
(Followed by reason)

*Factual - C-*
(Followed by reason - Point out things you see seriously wrong. Point out on things you didn't previously know. )

*Persuasiveness - S+*
(Followed by reason - Did you change your mind on the match up? Did you gain a new perspective?)






*Spoiler*: _Matches_ 




*1)* 
*2)* 
*3)* 
*4) *
*5)* 
*6)* 





*Helper/Admin - *@Mawt

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 2, 2020)

@SakuraLover16 What do you  say?

Reactions: Like 2


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> @SakuraLover16 What do you  say?


I’m trash though ;-;

Reactions: Funny 1


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## The_Conqueror (Apr 2, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I’m trash though ;-;


Sakura vs Naruto ??


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 2, 2020)

The_Conqueror said:


> Sakura vs Naruto ??


What do you mean?


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 2, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I’m trash though ;-;


Don't try and pull me into a false sense of superiority... I know you're Secretly a master debater, who can neg diff me without trying

Reactions: Like 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Apr 2, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Don't try and pull me into a false sense of superiority... I know you're Secretly a master debater, who can neg diff me without trying


Lies! You have no such proof!!!


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 2, 2020)

Ok... Ok
The matchup I dying to see is 
> Ren and Batz vs Worlds


Can't someone make this happen?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 2, 2020)

I'm too lazy to accept anything


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## DaVizWiz (Apr 2, 2020)

I challenge:



to

​

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Apr 2, 2020)

DaVizWiz said:


> I challenge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This would bring a lot of attention to the arena.

@Speedyamell you in?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 2, 2020)

I challenge @t0xeus and @Lyren to Izumi Curtis vs Wrath.


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## Mawt (Apr 2, 2020)




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## Speedyamell (Apr 2, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> This would bring a lot of attention to the arena.
> 
> @Speedyamell you in?


Yeah baby. You know them sakura threads be pulling the most numbers


DaVizWiz said:


> I challenge:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I might be interested in a bm naruto vs EMS sasuke with @Mawt though.. but certainly not right now lol


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## Mawt (Apr 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> I might be interested in a bm naruto vs EMS sasuke with @Mawt though.. but certainly not right now lol




What about Konohamaru vs Moegi?


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## Grinningfox (Apr 2, 2020)

Mawt said:


> What about Konohamaru vs Moegi?


Which versions ?


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## Mawt (Apr 2, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> Which versions ?


Let's go with P1 versions.

I've personally found a way to scale Konohamaru above Hiruzen, who's portrayed above the Five Kage. I think Konohamaru has this in the bag tbh.


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## Grinningfox (Apr 2, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Let's go with P1 versions.
> 
> I've personally found a way to scale Konohamaru above Hiruzen, who's portrayed above the Five Kage. I think Konohamaru has this in the bag tbh.


Hiruzen DID want to fight him more than anyone else


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## Speedyamell (Apr 2, 2020)

Mawt said:


> What about Konohamaru vs Moegi?





Grinningfox said:


> Which versions ?





Mawt said:


> Let's go with P1 versions.
> 
> I've personally found a way to scale Konohamaru above Hiruzen, who's portrayed above the Five Kage. I think Konohamaru has this in the bag tbh.





Grinningfox said:


> Hiruzen DID want to fight him more than anyone else


What is going on??


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 3, 2020)

Mfs out here saying Konohamaru > Hiruzen

This kid only learned Shadow Clone Shuriken in Shippuden and you're trying to say he's stronger than literally any version of Hiruzen? Gtf

Konohamaru didn't even inherit the Neutralizegan, he's so weak


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## t0xeus (Apr 3, 2020)

@Hussain wanna do Tobirama vs Minato with me?


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## Grinningfox (Apr 3, 2020)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Mfs out here saying Konohamaru > Hiruzen
> 
> This kid only learned Shadow Clone Shuriken in Shippuden and you're trying to say he's stronger than literally any version of Hiruzen? Gtf
> 
> Konohamaru didn't even inherit the Neutralizegan, he's so weak


He’s yet to unlock the powers of the Prime but when that day comes Prime Konohamaru will solo the verse low diff


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## Trojan (Apr 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Hussain wanna do Tobirama vs Minato with me?


you are blinded by your hatred and fanboyism tho...  
and we have already debated everything about them, and didn't agree anyway lol


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## t0xeus (Apr 3, 2020)

Hussain said:


> you are blinded by your hatred and fanboyism tho...
> and we have already debated everything about them, and didn't agree anyway lol


We never debated formally like this before though, and in this format you just have to make the unbiased judges agree with you, not the opponent.


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## Kisame (Apr 3, 2020)

@Hussain vs @t0xeus would be great; extremely pro-Minato/anti-Tobirama vs extremely pro-Tobirama/anti-Minato, respectively.

*Random*: "Minato is super fast!"
*t0xeus*: "why exactly do you think that?

His hype is all about FTG, without it he's rather lackluster. Even his feats are quite average to be honest, having a knowledge advantage over his opponents who could easily react to his Kunai flick - as any competent shinobi would "

*Random*: "Tobirama has good feats against JJ Obito!"
*Hussain*: "you mean he was blitzed and had to die to do zero damage 

If this is what Tobirama's deluded fans think is a good feat, you can't help them"


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## Trojan (Apr 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> We never debated formally like this before though, and in this format you just have to make the unbiased judges agree with you, not the opponent.


maybe latter, I dunno... 
I have to write some papers and other shit. That format will require a lot of time, and honestly don't want to bother with it currently. 



Shark said:


> @Hussain vs @t0xeus would be great; extremely pro-Minato/anti-Tobirama vs extremely pro-Tobirama/anti-Minato, respectively.
> 
> *Random*: "Minato is super fast!"
> *t0xeus*: "why exactly do you think that?
> ...



I am not anti for any character. I only speak facts and truth...


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## t0xeus (Apr 3, 2020)

Hussain said:


> maybe latter, I dunno...
> I have to write some papers and other shit. That format will require a lot of time, and honestly don't want to bother with it currently.


Okay, no problem.

Let me know if you change your mind.


Shark said:


> @Hussain vs @t0xeus would be great; extremely pro-Minato/anti-Tobirama vs extremely pro-Tobirama/anti-Minato, respectively.
> 
> *Random*: "Minato is super fast!"
> *t0xeus*: "why exactly do you think that?
> ...


You actually did a really good job imitating mine and Hussain's writing style.


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## Kisame (Apr 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> You actually did a really good job imitating mine and Hussain's writing style.


Right? 


*Spoiler*: __ 




Try guessing this one,  it's easy:

*Topic*: Jiraiya vs MS Obito
*Random*: Obito shit-diffs
*Mystery person*: I have Jiraiya as Itachi's relative equal, both would lose to Obito.


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## t0xeus (Apr 3, 2020)

Anyways I am willing to debate anyone, as I don't really have a specific person to challenge, on these match-ups:
Tobirama vs Minato
Tobirama vs KCM Minato
WA Gai vs either Sannin
WA Kakashi vs either Sannin



Shark said:


> Right?
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*: __
> ...


Shazam, right? 

You should make a thread in Metadome, you're good at this.


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## Artistwannabe (Apr 3, 2020)

Shark said:


> Try guessing this one,  it's easy:
> 
> *Random*: Obito shit-diffs


I am not "Random" you mortal


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## Troyse22 (Apr 3, 2020)

Kisame vs Jiraiya anyone?


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## Grinningfox (Apr 3, 2020)

Artistwannabe said:


> I am not "Random" you mortal


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## Mawt (Apr 3, 2020)

ThomasTheCat said:


> Mfs out here saying Konohamaru > Hiruzen
> 
> This kid only learned Shadow Clone Shuriken in Shippuden and you're trying to say he's stronger than literally any version of Hiruzen? Gtf
> 
> Konohamaru didn't even inherit the Neutralizegan, he's so weak


Konohamaru inherited Sexy Jutsu from Naruto. Sexy Jutsu neg diffed Hiruzen, meaning that Konohamaru > Hiruzen > Five Kage. 

I can take it up a notch further actually. Sexy Jutsu nearly defeated Kaguya, meaning it's nearly a God Tier Jutsu. Naruto even stated that Sexy Jutsu was more effective if the opponent was stronger. That means that no matter how strong an opponent is, Konohamaru can just use Sexy Jutsu and defeat them.

Therefore, he scales above Hiruzen. So he should stomp Moegi.


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## ThomasTheCat (Apr 4, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Konohamaru inherited Sexy Jutsu from Naruto. Sexy Jutsu neg diffed Hiruzen, meaning that Konohamaru > Hiruzen > Five Kage.
> 
> I can take it up a notch further actually. Sexy Jutsu nearly defeated Kaguya, meaning it's nearly a God Tier Jutsu. Naruto even stated that Sexy Jutsu was more effective if the opponent was stronger. That means that no matter how strong an opponent is, Konohamaru can just use Sexy Jutsu and defeat them.
> 
> Therefore, he scales above Hiruzen. So he should stomp Moegi.


I think we know who @Kid Naruto is a dupe of now


Hiruzen got negged while he was off his game in a surprise attack. Try that shit in a real fight and Hiruzen'll have 450 roof tiles up your ass


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## t0xeus (Apr 4, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Konohamaru inherited Sexy Jutsu from Naruto. Sexy Jutsu neg diffed Hiruzen, meaning that Konohamaru > Hiruzen > Five Kage.
> 
> I can take it up a notch further actually. Sexy Jutsu nearly defeated Kaguya, meaning it's nearly a God Tier Jutsu. Naruto even stated that Sexy Jutsu was more effective if the opponent was stronger. That means that no matter how strong an opponent is, Konohamaru can just use Sexy Jutsu and defeat them.
> 
> Therefore, he scales above Hiruzen. So he should stomp Moegi.





ThomasTheCat said:


> I think we know who @Kid Naruto is a dupe of now
> 
> 
> Hiruzen got negged while he was off his game in a surprise attack. Try that shit in a real fight and Hiruzen'll have 450 roof tiles up your ass


Please guys use this thread just for challenging others.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 7, 2020)

Would any of you nice posters care for a friendly debate against my WA Kakashi with the character suggested below?

@t0xeus Edo Madara
@Troyse22 P2 Kisame
@Hina uzumaki Hokage Minato
@FlamingRain WA Tsunade
@Orochimaru op P1 Orochimaru
@Zembie Onoki
@MaruUchiha Danzo
@MShadows Pain
@Shark SM Jiraiya
@~Kakashi~ VOTE Madara
@Topace WA Gaara
@trocollo FKS A4
@Eliyua23 BM Bee
@Soldierofficial FKS Sasuke
@Sufex KN6


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## MaruUchiha (Apr 7, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Would any of you nice posters care for a friendly debate against my WA Kakashi with the character suggested below?
> 
> @t0xeus Edo Madara
> @Troyse22 P2 Kisame
> ...


Sorry but War Kakashi pimpslaps Danzo


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## Troyse22 (Apr 7, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Would any of you nice posters care for a friendly debate against my WA Kakashi with the character suggested below?
> 
> @t0xeus Edo Madara
> @Troyse22 P2 Kisame
> ...



No thanks, cause it will only devolve into a Kamui gg discussion.

War Kakashi is by far the least fun character to discuss in the NBD atm


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## trocollo (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @trocollo FKS A4


Didn't recive the notification (guess the limit is below 12), so maybe you want to try to ping again the last ones
For the debate I can go for it, but a normal one, cause too much words, I'd prefer to be direct in the points 

So I'll put it like this, depends on 2 things in my mind:

- A4 mindset:
A4 starts in V1
A4 starts in V2

- Distance:
Near
Medium-far


I think that if V2 comes into play A4 should win, cause in that state he was able to dodge amaterasu after it was casted

If A4 is in V1 the way I see Kakashi winning is by casting a defensive kamui before A4 strikes him so the raikage will be sucked in it

At medium-long range Kakashi should pull this off, at short distance I'd say no, but I don't clearly remember the reactions feats of Kakashi, so I'm usure, maybe what he can do is going for a diversive and create more distance


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Would any of you nice posters care for a friendly debate against my WA Kakashi with the character suggested below?
> 
> @t0xeus Edo Madara


Honestly I don't wanna discuss Madara in this setting 

He's too strong and it just comes down to feats. And writing 500-1500 words long text about why he should win almost purely based on feats is too much.

That's why this is the list of characters I'm willing to debate for instead:


t0xeus said:


> Tobirama vs Minato
> Tobirama vs KCM Minato
> WA Gai vs either Sannin
> WA Kakashi vs either Sannin


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## Sufex (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Would any of you nice posters care for a friendly debate against my WA Kakashi with the character suggested below?
> 
> @t0xeus Edo Madara
> @Troyse22 P2 Kisame
> ...


Didn't get a notification for this but I dont care much for KN6 sorry.


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## Sufex (Apr 8, 2020)

Are you allowed to nominate others? Would love to see @Troyse22  for Kisame vs @Shark  for Base Jiriaya

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Hina uzumaki Hokage Minato


Yeah, sure
Let's go for it..... Is it going to be like a formal debate with opening posts and stuff?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Yeah, sure
> Let's go for it..... Is it going to be like a formal debate with opening posts and stuff?


Yep, I think we should limit it to 2-3 posts each (your thoughts?) like opening, rebuttal and conclusion, 500-1500 words per post and judged based on the criteria listed in the opening post of this thread.

What do you say to 20 metres distance, reputation knowledge, in character mindset, and Itachi and Nagato vs Naruto and Bee location?


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## Sufex (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Yep, I think we should limit it to 2-3 posts each (your thoughts?) like opening, rebuttal and conclusion, 500-1500 words per post and judged based on the criteria listed in the opening post of this thread.
> 
> What do you say to 20 metres distance, reputation knowledge, in character mindset, and Itachi and Nagato vs Naruto and Bee location?


Are there any prises for this? If so depending on what they are I might be willing to for debate itachi, kakashi or killer bee.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Are there any prises for this? If so depending on what they are I might be willing to for debate itachi, kakashi or killer bee.


Gooood question. I'll let @t0xeus! handle this.


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Are there any prises for this? If so depending on what they are I might be willing to for debate itachi, kakashi or killer bee.


No prize.

You receive feedback from the judges on your debating skills, and you can settle a beef with another person. That's all there is to it. The commitment to the challenge comes from people wanting to debate in the first place.

But you can create your own prize, like you can set up a bet for your match or something.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Honestly I don't wanna discuss Madara in this setting
> 
> He's too strong and it just comes down to feats.


Hmmmmm - in that case, maybe I should attempt to convince you it's not that one-sided. If you're up to the challenge, for fun, would you like to argue for Edo or VotE?


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> Sorry but War Kakashi pimpslaps Danzo


Hmmmmm - then how about EMS Sasuke, Nagato, or KCM Naruto?


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## Sufex (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> No prize.
> 
> You receive feedback from the judges on your debating skills, and you can settle a beef with another person. That's all there is to it. The commitment to the challenge comes from people wanting to debate in the first place.
> 
> But you can create your own prize, like you can set up a bet for your match or something.


Fair enough Im good then.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> No thanks, cause it will only devolve into a Kamui gg discussion.
> 
> War Kakashi is by far the least fun character to discuss in the NBD atm


Okay then... Err.. How about your Kisame vs my Kakuzu?


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Didn't recive the notification (guess the limit is below 12), so maybe you want to try to ping again the last ones
> For the debate I can go for it, but a normal one, cause too much words, I'd prefer to be direct in the points
> 
> So I'll put it like this, depends on 2 things in my mind:
> ...


Interesting... Then how about any of these:
WA Gaara
KCM Naruto 
KN6
PA Jiraiya
?


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Personally I'd like to see devil's advocate match-ups:
@Turrin / @Shazam (Itachi) vs @Illusory (SM Jiraiya/Orochimaru)
@Santoryu / @Crimson Flam3s (Hebi Sasuke) vs @WorldsStrongest (PA/WA Kakashi)
@Troyse22 (Tsunade) vs @Speedyamell / @Lyren (Kisame)

Would any of you be interested in that? 



Mad Scientist said:


> Hmmmmm - in that case, maybe I should attempt to convince you it's not that one-sided. If you're up to the challenge, for fun, would you like to argue for Edo or VotE?


I am not talking about this match-up specifically, I just don't like formally debating for characters that are this on this level in general.

I'd do a debate with anyone below-Founders level though.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Turrin (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Personally I'd like to see devil's advocate match-ups:
> @Turrin / @Shazam (Itachi) vs @Illusory (SM Jiraiya/Orochimaru)
> @Santoryu / @Crimson Flam3s (Hebi Sasuke) vs @WorldsStrongest (PA/WA Kakashi)
> @Troyse22 (Tsunade) vs @Speedyamell / @Lyren (Kisame)
> ...


I’m not really interested in these long form debates; I would do a debate over discord or a thread with no real form


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I am not talking about this match-up specifically, I just don't like formally debating for characters that are this on this level in general.
> 
> I'd do a debate with anyone below-Founders level though.


Hmmm, any of these:
Pain
BM Minato
A3
Killer Bee
EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
KCM Naruto
Gengetsu
Muu
Onoki
WA Gaara
?


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

@Mawt
Care to take on my WA Kakashi with any of these:
SM Kabuto (w/o Edo Tensei)
Konan (w/ Paper Ocean)
KCM Naruto ~ EMS Sasuke (Kabuto fight)
Pain
Alive Minato
Killer Bee
?


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## trocollo (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Interesting... Then how about any of these:
> WA Gaara
> KCM Naruto
> KN6
> ...


It's not the character, it's the kind of debate 
I'm willing to debate any of these in a normal way, I just don't like writing an entire essay on a fight when I can just focalize my points on what I feel is relevant, the previous response was an example of that, I synthetically said in what circumstance I think A4 would win and in what I think he would lose, then you can either give first your synthetic point of view on the match-up (maybe bringing up important things I missed) or directly respond to my post asking question or attacking my points (es: "Why you think dodging amaterasu is enough for him to dodge kamui?" or "But at chapter xxx Kakashi reacted to Jonh Kellingher who's faster than V1 A")

PS: At least for now, maybe in the summer with more time at hands I could give it a go


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

trocollo said:


> It's not the character, it's the kind of debate
> I'm willing to debate any of these in a normal way, I just don't like writing an entire essay on a fight when I can just focalize my points on what I feel is relevant, the previous response was an example of that, I synthetically said in what circumstance I think A4 would win and in what I think he would lose, then you can either give first your synthetic point of view on the match-up (maybe bringing up important things I missed) or directly respond to my post asking question or attacking my points (es: "Why you think dodging amaterasu is enough for him to dodge kamui?" or "But at chapter xxx Kakashi reacted to Jonh Kellingher who's faster than V1 A")
> 
> PS: At least for now, maybe in the summer with more time at hands I could give it a go


No problem! Perhaps later we can have a casual debate on who you think would give Kakashi the hardest time out of that list.


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## trocollo (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> No problem! Perhaps later we can have a casual debate on who you think would give Kakashi the hardest time out of that list.


Ok thought about them, and actually I think it only depends on kamui's speed, I see Kakashi winning if we go by your kamui speed, I see him losing if we go by kunai-like kamui speed
KCM Naruto could be the only exception that can win in the first case, but I'm unsure cause Idk how well can he mantain his shunshin

So in the end there isn't much to say outside of discussing kamui's speed, the A4's one would actually be the longest I guess 

Here's a chill/happy song to cover my butt :


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Ok thought about them, and actually I think it only depends on kamui's speed, I see Kakashi winning if we go by your kamui speed, I see him losing if we go by kunai-like kamui speed
> KCM Naruto could be the only exception that can win in the first case, but I'm unsure cause Idk how well can he mantain his shunshin
> 
> So in the end there isn't much to say outside of discussing kamui's speed, the A4's one would actually be the longest I guess
> ...


Hmm, I totally see what you mean. In that case it's prolly not worth pursuing this avenue further. But that's good, because you actually saved both of us a good amount of time. Thanks!


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## trocollo (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Hmm, I totally see what you mean. In that case it's prolly not worth pursuing this avenue further. But that's good, because you actually saved both of us a good amount of time. Thanks!


No probs


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## MaruUchiha (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Hmmmmm - then how about EMS Sasuke, Nagato, or KCM Naruto?


But don't you remember what happened last time i tried? It's just too hard for me


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Okay then... Err.. How about your Kisame vs my Kakuzu?



Then it becomes "Kisame can't absorb Ninjutsu" and I'm not gonna deal with that stupid shit.

Concede right now that Kisame can absorb Ninjutsu and I will agree to debate.



t0xeus said:


> Personally I'd like to see devil's advocate match-ups:
> @Turrin / @Shazam (Itachi) vs @Illusory (SM Jiraiya/Orochimaru)
> @Santoryu / @Crimson Flam3s (Hebi Sasuke) vs @WorldsStrongest (PA/WA Kakashi)
> @Troyse22 (Tsunade) vs @Speedyamell / @Lyren (Kisame)
> ...



I would do this with someone who has even a remotely distant chance of beating Kisame, but Tsunade...I can't debate for her against Kisame. I'd just do what the sannin camp does and keep linking the P1 scan and not even type anything


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## Speedyamell (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Personally I'd like to see devil's advocate match-ups:
> @Turrin / @Shazam (Itachi) vs @Illusory (SM Jiraiya/Orochimaru)
> @Santoryu / @Crimson Flam3s (Hebi Sasuke) vs @WorldsStrongest (PA/WA Kakashi)
> @Troyse22 (Tsunade) vs @Speedyamell / @Lyren (Kisame)
> ...


I do argue for kisame from time to time.. trying to picture troyse arguing for tsunade though..


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

MaruUchiha said:


> But don't you remember what happened last time i tried? It's just too hard for me


Fair enough - but you underestimate yourself!



Troyse22 said:


> Then it becomes "Kisame can't absorb Ninjutsu" and I'm not gonna deal with that stupid shit.
> 
> Concede right now that Kisame can absorb Ninjutsu and I will agree to debate.


He can't absorb ninjutsu to my knowledge, but what he can do is absorb the chakra imbued within material ninjutsu, which would in turn cause the jutsu to dissipate/collapse given enough time and a fast enough absorption rate.


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Fair enough - but you underestimate yourself!
> 
> 
> He can't absorb ninjutsu to my knowledge, but what he can do is absorb the chakra imbued within material ninjutsu, which would in turn cause the jutsu to dissipate/collapse given enough time and a fast enough absorption rate.



Ninjutsu is pure Chakra given shape and an "element" which is still Chakra.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Ninjutsu is pure Chakra given shape and an "element" which is still Chakra.


*Is this fine:* Samehada and Daikodan can absorb ninjutsu but how much is absorbed is limited by the rate of chakra absorption.

If so, will that be all?


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *Is this fine:* Samehada and Daikodan can absorb ninjutsu but how much is absorbed is limited by the rate of chakra absorption.
> 
> If so, will that be all?



Yes.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Yes.


Ok what stips do you think are fair?

20 m, Nagato and Itachi vs Naruto and Bee, IC, Reputation, No restrictions?


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Ok what stips do you think are fair?
> 
> 20 m, Nagato and Itachi vs Naruto and Bee, IC, Reputation, No restrictions?



Sure


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Sure


@t0xeus Can you do the honours?


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Ok what stips do you think are fair?
> 
> 20 m, Nagato and Itachi vs Naruto and Bee, IC, Reputation, No restrictions?


Yup.

Just to be clear, it's Kakuzu vs Kisame, right?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Yup.
> 
> Just to be clear, it's Kakuzu vs Kisame, right?


Yes, thanks!


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Yes, thanks!


Okay, I will get some picks for the judges and then when you both agree on them, I'll make the thread.



@Troyse22 @Mad Scientist

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Okay, I will get some picks for the judges and then when you both agree on them, I'll make the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> @Troyse22 @Mad Scientist



I nominate @DaVizWiz @ARGUS @Bonly

Reactions: Like 2


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## t0xeus (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> I nominate @DaVizWiz @ARGUS @Bonly


I have @Atlantic Storm and @Cherry who would be down to judge so far. Are you guys okay with them?

Still you can give your tips for other judges.

@Mad Scientist

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I have @Atlantic Storm and @Cherry who would be down to judge so far. Are you guys okay with them?
> 
> Still you can give your tips for other judges.
> 
> @Mad Scientist


I am fine with those two. Not fine with Bonly (no offense to the guy but his posting quality is terrible).


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I have @Atlantic Storm and @Cherry who would be down to judge so far. Are you guys okay with them?
> 
> Still you can give your tips for other judges.
> 
> @Mad Scientist



Not fine with @Cherry find someone else. Atlantic is fine


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Nobody from the Sannin camp is acceptable.


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## Bonly (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> I nominate @DaVizWiz @ARGUS @Bonly



I don’t care to judge for MS since he likes to make too many crazy leaps of baseless claims and treat them like facts and he’s prone to flip out on posters that don’t agree with him. Though he might not be bad if he’s not wanking/overrating Kakashi or Gai so maybe next time


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Cherry said:


> While I’m ok with you not wanting me to be a judge. Do you have any proof of me having a hate boner for him, or is this just a baseless accusation out of spite? Lol



Saying base Jiraiya can one shot P2 Kisame is about as hate-bonery as it gets.

All the Sannin camp hate him, a camp which you are a part of, that is a fact.

Ask a Sannin camp member "What tier is Kisame in" "Jonin-bottom of low kage"

Ask anyone else "What tier is Kisame in" "Mid kage, High kage under certain circumstances"


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## Serene Grace (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Saying base Jiraiya can one shot P2 Kisame is about as hate-bonery as it gets.
> 
> All the Sannin camp hate him, a camp which you are a part of, that is a fact.
> 
> ...


There’s no serious post from me that’s said Base Jiraiya finishes off Kisame in one move. I’ve also consistently said Kisame is a mid kage. So wtf are you on?


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Cherry said:


> There’s no serious post from me that’s said Base Jiraiya finishes off Kisame in one move. I’ve also consistently said Kisame is a mid kage. So wtf are you on?



Just not a mid kage capable of beating any other mid kage  or any low Kage. If someone says Kisame beats old Hiruzen you and your whole camp flip put and accuse people of either downplaying Hiruzen or being a Kisame walker

Laughable camp.

I've seen you say Kisame cant even deal with summons. Lmfao.


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## Troyse22 (Apr 8, 2020)

Cherry said:


> There’s no serious post from me that’s said Base Jiraiya finishes off Kisame in one move. I’ve also consistently said Kisame is a mid kage. So wtf are you on?



I do still love u though, just not worth being a judge for anything sannin, or sannin adjacent


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## Serene Grace (Apr 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> I do still love u though, just not worth being a judge for anything sannin, or sannin adjacent





Troyse22 said:


> Just not a mid kage capable of beating any other mid kage  or any low Kage. If someone says Kisame beats old Hiruzen you and your whole camp flip put and accuse people of either downplaying Hiruzen or being a Kisame walker
> 
> Laughable camp.
> 
> I've seen you say Kisame cant even deal with summons. Lmfao.



Alright man your call


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## Mawt (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Mawt
> Care to take on my WA Kakashi with any of these:
> SM Kabuto (w/o Edo Tensei)
> Konan (w/ Paper Ocean)
> ...


I think I'll be a little inactive in the NBD for a week or two. Just need a little break.

But once I get back into it, I'll gladly take you on.


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 9, 2020)

Did I seriously just read that Kisame cant absorb ninjutsu a few pages back?

Im aware this thread isnt for posts like this but...Literally fucking what?


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 10, 2020)

judging kakuzu vs kisame, eh

what a blast from the past - i remember being part of a formal debate with that match-up back in 2012


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## t0xeus (Apr 10, 2020)

@Mad Scientist @Troyse22

Are you fine with these picks for judging? 
@Mawt @Atlantic Storm @Illusory @DaVizWiz @blk


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## Troyse22 (Apr 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Mad Scientist @Troyse22
> 
> Are you fine with these picks for judging?
> @Mawt @Atlantic Storm @Illusory @DaVizWiz @blk



Yes

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Mad Scientist @Troyse22
> 
> Are you fine with these picks for judging?
> @Mawt @Atlantic Storm @Illusory @DaVizWiz @blk


Yes, also very thankful to you and the judges


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## t0xeus (Apr 10, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Yes





Mad Scientist said:


> Yes, also very thankful to you and the judges


Okay I added @ThirdRidoku as the last person to the judging line-up.

You two okay with him?

If yeah, I'll make the thread right away.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Okay I added @ThirdRidoku as the last person to the judging line-up.
> 
> You two okay with him?
> 
> If yeah, I'll make the thread right away.


Yes


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## Troyse22 (Apr 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Okay I added @ThirdRidoku as the last person to the judging line-up.
> 
> You two okay with him?
> 
> If yeah, I'll make the thread right away.



mhm


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## Santoryu (Apr 12, 2020)

Great stuff!!!

As_ the official judge of the judges_, I will be your point of reference for any problems associated with the judging. I will hold them to scrutiny and make sure nothing nefarious is taking place.

Pop me a message if you have any problems.
Good luck!!!!


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## Santoryu (Apr 12, 2020)

350 words post limit
2 posts each (opening and rebuttal; no other posts allowed)


Accepting matches: Arguing for the *left side*
Base Jiraiya vs Pain Kakashi
Tsunade vs Pain Kakashi

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Apr 12, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> 350 words post limit
> 2 posts each (opening and rebuttal; no other posts allowed)
> 
> 
> ...



@Lyren
@Femme
@Shazam
@FlamingRain


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 12, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Lyren
> @Femme
> @Shazam
> @FlamingRain


I see you're in the mood


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## Santoryu (Apr 12, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> I see you're in the mood



You can take their place if you want


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## Troyse22 (Apr 12, 2020)

@Mad Scientist is the winner of the first debate, congrats!


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## Thenewguysnm1 (Apr 13, 2020)

Kisamae-me vs living Minato-any minato wanker on the forum


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## Sapherosth (Apr 13, 2020)

What a blast from the past!


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 13, 2020)

Thenewguysnm1 said:


> Kisamae-me vs living Minato-any minato wanker on the forum


Who are you debating for?


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## Santoryu (Apr 13, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> 350 words post limit
> 2 posts each (opening and rebuttal; no other posts allowed)
> 
> 
> ...




@Matto


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 13, 2020)

So...... Who's next?


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## Santoryu (Apr 13, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> So...... Who's next?


 
none of the listed have yet to accept


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 13, 2020)

@ShinAkuma vs @Santoryu 
@The Great One vs @WorldsStrongest 
@dergeist vs @t0xeus 
@Animegoin vs @Veracity 


Someone please these happen


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## Troyse22 (Apr 13, 2020)

I nominate @Matto and @Turrin with Matto arguing for Orochimaru and Turrin for Jiraiya


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## Thenewguysnm1 (Apr 13, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Who are you debating for?


Kisame


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## Troyse22 (Apr 13, 2020)

Thenewguysnm1 said:


> Kisame



I nominate myself to judge as an unbiased third party


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## Hina uzumaki (Apr 13, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> unbiased third party


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## Troyse22 (Apr 13, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


>



I guess I'll have to admit I have a bias for facts, which might not be what the majority of the NBD traffics in

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShinAkuma (Apr 13, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> I guess I'll have to admit I have a bias for facts, which might not be what the majority of the NBD traffics in




I don't think many would consider your style "biased for facts".


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Mawt
> Care to take on my WA Kakashi with any of these:
> SM Kabuto (w/o Edo Tensei)
> Konan (w/ Paper Ocean)
> ...


Okay, I accept the proposal.

Roll a dice or use a random number generator from 1-6.

1 = SM Kabuto
2 = Konan
3 = KCM Naruto
4 = EMS Sasuke 
5 = Pain
6 = Minato

That'll be who I debate with.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Okay, I accept the proposal.
> 
> Roll a dice or use a random number generator from 1-6.
> 
> ...


Nice! 


It's a 1.....

What do you think of the following stips?

Naruto vs Pain location
Manga knowledge
IC and KI mindset
25 m distance
ET restricted

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Nice!
> 
> 
> It's a 1.....
> ...


Hmm, I personally think that the location is a little disadvantageous towards Kabuto but I can work with what I have. Kabuto instantly starts in SM, correct?


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Hmm, I personally think that the location is a little disadvantageous towards Kabuto but I can work with what I have. Kabuto instantly starts in SM, correct?


What do you think would be a neutral location?

Yes, he starts already in SM.


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> What do you think would be a neutral location?
> 
> Yes, he starts already in SM.


I think the area with the floating rocks where the team fought against Rinnegan Obito would be good.

The rocks can serve as good LOS blockers for Kabuto, but they aren't so crazy that Kakashi's Kamui is rendered null.


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I think the area with the floating rocks where the team fought against Rinnegan Obito would be good.
> 
> The rocks can serve as good LOS blockers for Kabuto, but they aren't so crazy that Kakashi's Kamui is rendered null.


That's an interesting area. Sounds good to me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Apr 13, 2020)

I would advise that you guys keep it to 2 posts each.

An opening and a rebuttal
Don't make the word count too ambitious

These are however, just suggestions

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Yeah, I think two posts is good.

I think the word count from the Troyse match works fine. 500-1500 words.


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Who do you want for judges?
@Mad Scientist


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Who do you want for judges?
> @Mad Scientist


Anyone from the previous match with me vs Troyse is fine. If you have any other suggestions you can lay them out


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Anyone from the previous round with me vs Troyse is fine. If you have any other suggestions you can lay them out


You need Hazuki bruh


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Mawt said:


> You need Hazuki bruh


I think Hazuki quit NF. He was a pretty weird guy but I hope he finds his path.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

Nah jk. The previous round judges work fine. We just need one person to replace me since I was a judge for the previous round.

@blk
@Illusory
@Atlantic Storm
@DaVizWiz
@ThirdRidoku

You guys cool as judges for this round?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 13, 2020)

Then, without further ado, @t0xeus, care to do the honours?

SM Kabuto (Mawt) vs WA Kakashi (Me) 
Obito vs NBKG floating rocks location
Manga knowledge
IC and KI mindset
25 m distance
ET restricted

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 13, 2020)

@Santoryu You wanna be the Judge of the Judges of Judicial Jury?

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Apr 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Then, without further ado, @t0xeus, care to do the honours?
> 
> SM Kabuto (Mawt) vs WA Kakashi (Me)
> Obito vs NBKG floating rocks location
> ...


On it

You can start and I'll get the judges later if we will be missing any

Reactions: Like 2


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## blk (Apr 14, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Nah jk. The previous round judges work fine. We just need one person to replace me since I was a judge for the previous round.
> 
> @blk
> @Illusory
> ...



Sure 



Mad Scientist said:


> SM Kabuto (Mawt) vs WA Kakashi (Me)



You sure like tough matches @Mad Scientist


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 14, 2020)

blk said:


> Sure


Thanks!



blk said:


> You sure like tough matches @Mad Scientist


I really wasn't expecting it to land on SM Kabuto, but the dice rolled at 1, at which point I was like... wut? I've never really debated WA Kabuto vs WA Kakashi, at least not as far as I can recall, but I think it would be interesting to see where this goes, even if Mawt stomps me

Reactions: Like 2


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 14, 2020)

>manga knowledge

kek 

good luck, mad scientist


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## Mad Scientist (Apr 14, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> >manga knowledge
> 
> kek
> 
> good luck, mad scientist


If you're a judge again, that would be great!


*Spoiler*: __


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## Atlantic Storm (Apr 14, 2020)

oh i'll be judging alright


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## Santoryu (Apr 14, 2020)

@Illusory    VS
@DaVizWiz

3TS Itachi vs 3TS WA Kakashi
2 posts (opening and a rebuttal) consisting of 400 words each (max)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Illusory (Apr 14, 2020)

If you want to renounce Kakashi and behold the true power of 3T Itachi, @Santoryu, then I suppose I will. 

I will require a no-post limit though, although I can do the word limit. I prefer embedding pictures to ensure that everybody lays eyes on what I'm talking about. 10 pictures is insufficient.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Santoryu (Apr 14, 2020)

Illusory said:


> If you want to renounce Kakashi and behold the true power of 3T Itachi, @Santoryu, then I suppose I will.
> 
> I will require a no-post limit though, although I can do the word limit. I prefer embedding pictures to ensure that everybody lays eyes on what I'm talking about. 10 pictures is insufficient.




Sure

As long as Viz agrees, it should be fine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 16, 2020)

Hows this going so far?

Expected it to fizzle out and its participants to literally just quit halfway through by now so Im kinda pleasantly surprised


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## Marvel (Apr 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Hows this going so far?
> 
> Expected it to fizzle out and its participants to literally just quit halfway through by now so Im kinda pleasantly surprised


First match

MS vs Troyse

ended with Troyse conceding as he didn't want to deal with outdated scans being used and rightfully so.

The thread eventually turned into a flame fest too(wasn't even between the two particicpants) . So I guess negativity is keeping it going?

EDIT: And considering the matches take place less than a day after being challenged,it's hard to lose interest if you signed up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Apr 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Hows this going so far?
> 
> Expected it to fizzle out and its participants to literally just quit halfway through by now so Im kinda pleasantly surprised


MS challenged me. I told him to do a dice roll of the characters he wanted to debate against and it landed on SM Kabuto.

So far I've made the first post. I think MS will respond in some time (maybe today or tomorrow). I don't think either of us intends to quit.

I think that if we can make the debate work, then maybe people will gain interest in this. So far, the thread has very little traction going for it, but I hope it can change after this match and people will start to challenge each other.

I will admit though that the first match was sort of a flop tho.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Apr 16, 2020)

Marvel said:


> MS vs Troyse
> 
> ended with Troyse conceding as he didn't want to deal with outdated scans being used and rightfully so.


Ah


WorldsStrongest said:


> Expected it to fizzle out and its participants to literally just quit halfway through


So I was right then

Cute

Idk what Troy would have expected...He knew getting into it that it was going to be a drawn out debate, your opponent using some half baked and clearly wrong and easily disproved outdated evidence, even if you have debunked it 50 times over, is a win for you...Just do it again and you win.

Arguing against someone who did nothing but do that would be very easy, as long as you had honest judges youd walk away teh clear victor.

If I was arguing for WA Kakashi beating Gai for instance, and my opponent had the argument that Gai outlasts because Kakashi could only use 4 raikiri in a fight cuz of Part 1, then Id just prove he can use well over 4 Raikiri per his later feats and stuff that argument.

Quitting when faced with those types of arguments is just silly

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mawt (Apr 16, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Sure
> 
> As long as Viz agrees, it should be fine.


@DaVizWiz 



*Spoiler*: __


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## Marvel (Apr 16, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> as long as you had honest judges youd walk away teh clear victor.


The judges(some of them) even said that they would have voted for Troyse. 



WorldsStrongest said:


> If I was arguing for WA Kakashi beating Gai for instance, and my opponent had the argument that Gai outlasts because Kakashi could only use 4 raikiri in a fight cuz of Part 1, then Id just prove he can use well over 4 Raikiri per his later feats and stuff that argument.


Yeah pretty much.

An argument that'd most likely be used too would be Saskue stating Base Gai was faster than Kakashi and Gai stating he was stronger than Kakashi.

Both can easily be shut down.


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## Kisame (Apr 19, 2020)

I would like to participate. How does this go?


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## trocollo (Apr 19, 2020)

Shark said:


> I would like to participate. How does this go?


Either:
- Challenge an user by tagging him
- Post the match-ups you're willing to debate and wait for someone to accept
- Scroll up and read the match-ups the others are willing to debate and challenge them


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## Shazam (Apr 19, 2020)

I want SM Jiraiya vs Living Itachi (No Edo Tensei/ Koto Crow) with @Sufex


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## Sufex (Apr 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Fair enough Im good then.


Nah

Like i said earlier in the thread. I dont have an interest in longform debates atm my goodman, but my good friends @Illusory or @blk might be willing to engage you

Reactions: Like 1


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## Illusory (Apr 19, 2020)

I'd do it.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sufex (Apr 19, 2020)

Illusory said:


> I'd do it.


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## Grinningfox (Apr 19, 2020)

I’m willing if the matchup is interesting enough

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Apr 19, 2020)

Illusory said:


> I'd do it.



We have fundamental differences in perspective. For example you believe that they were talking about Kurama, while I and most others acknowledge they were directly speaking about Jiraiya. 

Our entire debate would go in circles on that alone


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## Mawt (Apr 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> We have fundamental differences in perspective. For example you believe that they were talking about Kurama, while I and most others acknowledge they were directly speaking about Jiraiya.
> 
> Our entire debate would go in circles on that alone


If you want, I can debate you on it. I'll probably be taking a one week break to cool off though. I'll tag some others who might be interested atm.

@ThirdRidoku @blk @Shark @BlackHeartedImp

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Apr 19, 2020)

Mawt said:


> If you want, I can debate you on it. I'll probably be taking a one week break to cool off though. I'll tag some others who might be interested atm.
> 
> @ThirdRidoku @blk @Shark @BlackHeartedImp



Shark and I are pretty close on agreement as it is. Blackimp doesn't want too. Do that leaves 3rd

Reactions: Like 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Apr 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Blackimp doesn't want too.


I'm flattered you know me well enough to correctly predict my laziness.


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## Illusory (Apr 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> We have fundamental differences in perspective. For example you believe that they were talking about Kurama, while I and most others acknowledge they were directly speaking about Jiraiya.
> 
> Our entire debate would go in circles on that alone



There's no need to go in circles when we can just say our piece on the matter and continue on. In any case, no worries either way!


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## Sufex (Apr 20, 2020)

Illusory said:


> There's no need to go in circles when we can just say our piece on the matter and continue on. In any case, no worries either way!


Also it would be up to the judges to look at the arguments. Judges you get to pick yourselves.


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## Kisame (Apr 21, 2020)

Im willing to debate for:

*Kakashi/Base Jiraiya* vs Deidara
*Hebi Sasuke* vs Sasori
*SM Kabuto* vs Sannin
*Kisame* (full knowledge) vs Bee (zero knowledge)

I think


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## Sufex (Apr 22, 2020)

Shark said:


> Im willing to debate for:
> 
> *Kakashi/Base Jiraiya* vs Deidara
> *Hebi Sasuke* vs Sasori
> ...


@Grinningfox interested?


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## QuallatiQuayage68 (Apr 22, 2020)

Hey guys @ShinAkuma is scared to compete. He cried out of a war cry I issued to roast his ass. All he knows is flaming users like a snide kid he is. He lacks the balls for a formal debate.


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## Hardcore (Apr 22, 2020)

QuallatiQuayage68 said:


> Hey guys @ShinAkuma is scared to compete. He cried out of a war cry I issued to roast his ass. All he knows is flaming users like a snide kid he is. He lacks the balls for a formal debate.



challenge him bro

i'm pretty sure he will accept

i can judge


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## Santoryu (Apr 22, 2020)

@Shark

*MS WA Kakashi* vs/Kakuzu/BOS Sasuke/3TS Itachi/Orochimaru without arms
400 words each max
An opening and rebuttal
No other posts


Should be fair right? 'low kage' vs 'low kage'?


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## Kisame (Apr 22, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Shark
> 
> *MS WA Kakashi* vs/Kakuzu/BOS Sasuke/3TS Itachi/Orochimaru without arms
> 400 words each max
> ...


What do you mean by this? I don't understand the post.


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## Santoryu (Apr 22, 2020)

Shark said:


> What do you mean by this? I don't understand the post.



I argue for Kakashi
you argue for one of the others'


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## Kisame (Apr 22, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> I argue for Kakashi
> you argue for one of the others'


Nah I'm good, I don't feel like being destroyed in a debate. 

I'm more interested in arguing _for_ Kakashi against Deidara though


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## Grinningfox (Apr 22, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @Grinningfox interested?


Sure tho I have questions


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 24, 2020)

So who wants to do one against me?

I'd be down to argue for WA Killer B, WA Gaara, most Naruto's, most Sasuke's, 6PoP,  or WA Guy.

We could do a insane match like me arguing for Tobirama vs @t0xeus for Minato or someone making me argue against Gaara as well!

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Apr 24, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> So who wants to do one against me?
> 
> I'd be down to argue for WA Killer B, WA Gaara, most Naruto's, most Sasuke's, 6PoP,  or WA Guy.
> 
> We could do a insane match like me arguing for Tobirama vs @t0xeus for Minato or someone making me argue against Gaara as well!


I honestly dont find Base Minato vs Tobirama arguable anymore, so I can't do that unfortunately.

I'd maybe do a 6PoP (you) vs KCM Minato (me) though if you'd like to, or something that I find to be a bit closer like that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

Anyone want a 2 vs 2 matchup?
@Crimson Flam3s
Wanna team up?

So one member does the opening. The other does the rebuttal
500 words max: No more as I don't have the chakra and I want it to actually conclude.


@Shark
@Shazam
@Kai
@Matto
@Hi no Ishi

Suggest matchups

Characters that I'd be interested in discussing:
Sannin
Masters
4th Raikage
Kakuzu

Reactions: Like 2


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> So who wants to do one against me?
> 
> I'd be down to argue for WA Killer B, WA Gaara, most Naruto's, most Sasuke's, 6PoP,  or WA Guy.
> 
> We could do a insane match like me arguing for Tobirama vs @t0xeus for Minato or someone making me argue against Gaara as well!



Read my previous post homie 

We can do 3TS Kakashi vs pre WA 3TS Sasuke if you want?


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## Shazam (Apr 25, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Anyone want a 2 vs 2 matchup?
> @Crimson Flam3s
> Wanna team up?
> 
> ...



I'll take Orochimaru  vs Gai.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 25, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Read my previous post homie
> 
> We can do 3TS Kakashi vs pre WA 3TS Sasuke if you want?


Only if I'm the one arguing for Kakashi hehe!

I'm down for a 2v2 as well!


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Only if I'm the one arguing for Kakashi hehe!
> 
> I'm down for a 2v2 as well!



of course you'd want kakashi 

@Crimson Flam3s
would you be willing to debate for sasuke?


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I'll take Orochimaru  vs Gai.



@Hi no Ishi

or would you rather do this? assuming you'd accept shazam as a partner 
but no prep (ET) allowed.


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 25, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Hi no Ishi
> 
> or would you rather do this? assuming you'd accept shazam as a partner
> but no prep (ET) allowed.


Only if Guy isn't allowed to ever have trained in Martial arts because that's prep?

I mean I'll do it but I do find calling something that takes no more to use in battle than any other jutsu prep crazy.

Hell, the ritual takes less work than Sasori's human puppets. But we never restrict those...



Santoryu said:


> of course you'd want kakashi
> 
> @Crimson Flam3s
> would you be willing to debate for sasuke?


Of course. "Sasuke fan argues for Sasuke vs Kakashi Fan argues for Kakashi" is boring compared to reversing it.

Though my last challenge match had me argue for Kakashi as well, iirc lol. I love arguing about his non Kamui feats which I feel are often overlooked.


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Only if Guy isn't allowed to ever have trained in Martial arts because that's prep?
> 
> I mean I'll do it but I do find calling something that takes no more to use in battle than any other jutsu prep crazy.




it requires sacrifices though, and is reliant on certain people being dead. 
it's not the same as training to achieve a certain state


Anyway I digress, as Orochimaru with a full powered Tobirama by his side for example is not a match I'd be willing to debate formally


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## Santoryu (Apr 25, 2020)

The Sasori point is a good one.
I imagine it's because people think he'd be much weaker than most kage level characters and wouldn't be fun to argue for.

Whereas with Oro, even w/o ET, he's still a powerful kage level character

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Apr 25, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> it requires sacrifices though, and is reliant on certain people being dead.
> it's not the same as training to achieve a certain state
> 
> 
> Anyway I digress, as Orochimaru with a full powered Tobirama by his side for example is not a match I'd be willing to debate formally





Santoryu said:


> The Sasori point is a good one.
> I imagine it's because people think he'd be much weaker than most kage level characters and wouldn't be fun to argue for.
> 
> Whereas with Oro, even w/o ET, he's still a powerful kage level character



Yep! And just like Sasori it requires him to kill a guy clean him out etc. Or with Guy it requires him train his whole life. 

It's one thing to say "X character is too swole for a lot if match ups and needs power stripping for it to be competitive if he has his full arsenal"

Or "Tobirama made ET a Forbidden jutsu and probably wouldn't start off with it the same way Chiyo would normally never use her 10 puppet collection because it Forbidden so they would only use them if desperate"

It's a whole other world to me to say "X character has to prepare for battle like everyone else so they can't use their scariest ability."

If ET makes Orochimaru Stronger than someone he is just stronger imho.

That said I am still down to argue for him against Guy even without ET.


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## Crimson Flam3s (Apr 25, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> of course you'd want kakashi
> 
> @Crimson Flam3s
> would you be willing to debate for sasuke?





I would be willing to debate for either one

Reactions: Like 2


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## Santoryu (Apr 26, 2020)

Well, I'm up for debating for either Sasuke/Gai too.
if Shazam accepts we can start this up

@t0xeus

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Apr 27, 2020)

@Shazam 
so are you in?


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## Shazam (Apr 27, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Shazam
> so are you in?



Gai vs Orochimaru? Sure


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## Santoryu (Apr 27, 2020)

Fantastic

@t0xeus


can we start this up?
if it's okay with crimson, i'll do the op and he can do the rebuttal
Gai (no 8G) vs Oro (no ET)
500 words max for each post (excluding links). So approx a 1000 as there will be an op and rebuttal


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## t0xeus (Apr 27, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Fantastic
> 
> @t0xeus
> 
> ...


Sure,get everyone participating agree to these conds and I'll get the judges


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## Mawt (May 3, 2020)

One week later:

@Santoryu:


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## Santoryu (May 3, 2020)

Mawt said:


> One week later:
> 
> @Santoryu:






Crimson Flam3s said:


> I would be willing to debate for either one



@Shazam
@Hi no Ishi


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## Hi no Ishi (May 3, 2020)

I'm down for it!


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## Hi no Ishi (May 9, 2020)

@t0xeus make it happen!


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## t0xeus (May 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @t0xeus make it happen!


@Shazam hasn't responded yet whether he's down though. 

You could do 1v1 against Sant/Crimson then?


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## Hi no Ishi (May 9, 2020)

@Shazam do you want to do that 2v2 Orochimaru vs Guy thread still?

With 


Santoryu said:


> Fantastic
> 
> @t0xeus
> 
> ...



These rules?


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## Mawt (May 9, 2020)

Let's get this under way. 

I'm down to be a judge btw.


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## Santoryu (May 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Shazam hasn't responded yet whether he's down though.
> 
> You could do 1v1 against Sant/Crimson then?





Hi no Ishi said:


> @Shazam do you want to do that 2v2 Orochimaru vs Guy thread still?
> 
> With
> 
> ...




Sorry guys, but as it's been a few weeks since then, and Shazam/Crim have yet to confirm, I won't be able to do this until the 4th of June (when my exams and essays end).

In the meantime though, Ishi vs Crim on the same topic should work?
Or if you guys still want to do a 2 vs 2, someone can stand in for me:

@Sufex 
@Godaime Tsunade
@Ayala
@Cherry 

you guys fancy it?


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

I would participate but being ranked on posting format, links, etc.. is hard when I post only from my phone

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (May 10, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Sorry guys, but as it's been a few weeks since then, and Shazam/Crim have yet to confirm, I won't be able to do this until the 4th of June (when my exams and essays end).
> 
> In the meantime though, Ishi vs Crim on the same topic should work?
> Or if you guys still want to do a 2 vs 2, someone can stand in for me:
> ...



Didn't know you wanted to have a versus match Sant, i didn't know you were the type. And sorry, but im kinda tired lately, don't think i can take a spot.


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## Serene Grace (May 10, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Sorry guys, but as it's been a few weeks since then, and Shazam/Crim have yet to confirm, I won't be able to do this until the 4th of June (when my exams and essays end).
> 
> In the meantime though, Ishi vs Crim on the same topic should work?
> Or if you guys still want to do a 2 vs 2, someone can stand in for me:
> ...


Not a fan of long formal debates


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## t0xeus (May 10, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I would participate but being ranked on posting format, links, etc.. is hard when I post only from my phone





Cherry said:


> Not a fan of long formal debates


You can choose your own format, word limit and other stipulations, and as long as your opponent agrees to it, judges will respect is as well.


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## Turrin (May 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> You can choose your own format, word limit and other stipulations, and as long as your opponent agrees to it, judges will respect is as well.


Ah then maybe I would do it; if there was an interesting match


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## Shazam (May 18, 2020)

I challenge @Ziggy Stardust SM Jiraiya vs Living Itachi 

And yes I'm serious lol


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

Do it.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

As challenger you get to post first.


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## Troyse22 (May 18, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I challenge @Ziggy Stardust SM Jiraiya vs Living Itachi
> 
> And yes I'm serious lol



Yomi numa gg
NO AMATERASU GG

Back and forth for 20 pages.


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## Shazam (May 18, 2020)

@FlamingRain I want this debate with @Ziggy Stardust but only if you forcibly moderate it.

@MShadows, may you help look over this upcoming debate thread as well


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## Troyse22 (May 18, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Do it.



Ur gonna lose, you're not a beta tester or moderator at neoseeker

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 18, 2020)

no more jokes.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

Shazam said:


> no more jokes.



The Beta tester hath spoken....


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## Troyse22 (May 18, 2020)

Shazam said:


> no more jokes.



Nobody is joking, ur on another level, can you put in a good word for me at Neoseeker?


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## Shazam (May 18, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Nobody is joking, ur on another level, can you put in a good word for me at Neoseeker?



If you're into testing games sure


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## Troyse22 (May 18, 2020)

Game walkthrough site

Put it on the resume boys.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

Anyway Shazzy,  What's the format? 

3 posts each with a panel of judges.  Or are we letting any tom, dick and Harry judge?


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

Shazam said:


> @FlamingRain I want this debate with @Ziggy Stardust but only if you forcibly moderate it.
> 
> @MShadows, may you help look over this upcoming debate thread as well



I don't trust either @flaimingrain or @MShadows to moderate this fairly.  The former I have reservations about (but they might be wrong) but certainly the not the latter, who has personal issues with me and banned me from the cafe. 

I hope there is a balanced panel of judges, that we both agree upon. if that's how we're doing things, otherwise there is not debate.


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## Shazam (May 18, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I don't trust either @flaimingrain or @MShadows to moderate this fairly.  The former I have reservations about (but they might be wrong) but certainly the not the latter, who has personal issues with me and banned me from the cafe.
> 
> I hope there is a balanced panel of judges, that we both agree upon. if that's how we're doing things, otherwise there is not debate.



I require a mod or its a no go. Not going to have a thread filled with shit posting


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

I don't mind either being Mods, I'm talking about how we judge this thing.


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## MShadows (May 18, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I don't trust either @flaimingrain or @MShadows to moderate this fairly.  The former I have reservations about (but they might be wrong) but certainly the not the latter, who has personal issues with me and banned me from the cafe.
> 
> I hope there is a balanced panel of judges, that we both agree upon. if that's how we're doing things, otherwise there is not debate.


I think you’re mixing me up with mr_shadow, pal. I don’t even know you.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

MShadows said:


> I think you’re mixing me up with mr_shadow, pal. I don’t even know you.



It appears so. 

You should really do something about that username.


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## MShadows (May 18, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> It appears so.
> 
> You should really do something about that username.


Or next time you should double check before posting.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 18, 2020)

MShadows said:


> Or next time you should double check before posting.



I want to change my user name to MShadow_ pls


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## Mawt (May 19, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I want to change my user name to MShadow_ pls


Here you go, buddy. I gotchu  

Btw, if you want to invite me to serve in the jury, just let me know. I'm a fellow member of the Solo Crusaders, and I'm open to bribes.


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## Troyse22 (May 19, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Here you go, buddy. I gotchu
> 
> Btw, if you want to invite me to serve in the jury, just let me know. I'm a fellow member of the Solo Crusaders, and I'm open to bribes.



I still can't believe I got away with MawdezrTarsh


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust 
@Shazam 

This debate must happen. I would be happy to help sort logistics.

Which would you guys want to judge, how many do you want? Word counts?


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @Ziggy Stardust
> @Shazam
> 
> This debate must happen. I would be happy to help sort logistics.
> ...



I want mods to oversee it. I dont care about word counts. Just no double posting


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I want mods to oversee it. I dont care about word counts. Just no double posting


So only 1 intro, no rebuttals?

Would @LostSelf  be okay? 

As for judges how about @Atlantic Storm @DaVizWiz and @Blu-ray ?


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> So only 1 intro, no rebuttals?
> 
> Would @LostSelf  be okay?
> 
> As for judges how about @Atlantic Storm @DaVizWiz and @Blu-ray ?



I've already requested two mods Flaming and MShadow. 

And im fine with rebuttals, i mean just no double posting, make your post and want for a response, take rounds


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## Santoryu (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I've already requested two mods Flaming and MShadow.
> 
> And im fine with rebuttals, i mean just no double posting, make your post and want for a response, take rounds



Mods can oversee, but why do they have to be a judge?


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I've already requested two mods Flaming and MShadow.
> 
> And im fine with rebuttals, i mean just no double posting, make your post and want for a response, take rounds


Alrighr 

Ziggy doesnt want rain so would @LostSelf  or @Blu-ray  be okay for you shaz?


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Mods can oversee, but why do they have to be a judge?



Because having members as judges makes things too convoluted


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## Santoryu (May 19, 2020)

Anyway, in this domain, I have *more power than the mods*, so I can overrule these votes.

After the 6th of June, I shall revisit and see what's going on.
I ,_Judge of the Judges_, I wish all of you good luck.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Alrighr
> 
> Ziggy doesnt want rain so would @LostSelf  or @Blu-ray  be okay for you shaz?



lol why doesnt he want Flaming?


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## Santoryu (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> lol why doesnt he want Flaming?



FR is openly very biased about the sannin which has hindered his cognition considerably 
However, we all make mistakes, so he can always change his ways 
Even going so far to endorse posters such as JJ who hasn't strung a sentence in his life that didn't resolve around defecating or sexual innuendos


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

If you guys believe so much that Itachi beats Jiraiya (everytime because i have them 50/50), to the point where you arguing that he solos the entire Sannin, then surely you arent worried about which mods are the judges..... @Santoryu @Ziggy Stardust


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> If you guys believe so much that Itachi beats Jiraiya (everytime because i have them 50/50), to the point where you arguing that he solos the entire Sannin, then surely you arent worried about which mods are the judges..... @Santoryu @Ziggy Stardust


If u get to choose who you want so does ziggy.

Its only fair


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> If u get to choose who you want so does ziggy.
> 
> Its only fair



Wait, so is it possible that you guys' confidence in living itachi on this debate is not as solid as you previously alluded? if not, then why the stress about which mods? (Iirc I was the one who wanted the debate, and picked the mods - Ziggy also told me to do the leg work) 

Why the backtrack?


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Wait, so is it possible that you guys' confidence in living itachi on this debate is not as solid as you previously alluded? if not, then why the stress about which mods? (Iirc I was the one who wanted the debate, and picked the mods - Ziggy also told me to do the leg work)
> 
> Why the backtrack?




What backtrack? You said you need to agree on the judges as literally every debate here does. Not to mention you also backedout against @Santoryu


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> What backtrack? You said you need to agree on the judges as literally every debate here does. Not to mention you also backedout against @Santoryu



backed out against @Santoryu? What mess are you making up now?

Ok I picked Flaming and MShadow. I consider them both level headed. Ziggy (if he can get them on board) may pick two more, but mods, not members. Members can not be a judge for me, if so I pick Juicy


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Waiting on @Ziggy Stardust  now


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## Kisame (May 19, 2020)

Do you guys mind me judging this one? I think I have made considerable contributions to both the Jiraiya cause and the Itachi cause enough so that I wouldn't be considered biased towards one more than the other, no?


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## Santoryu (May 19, 2020)

Shark said:


> Do you guys mind me judging this one? I think I have made considerable contributions to both the Jiraiya cause and the Itachi cause enough so that I wouldn't be considered biased towards one more than the other, no?



i accept your submission to be a judge


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Shark said:


> Do you guys mind me judging this one? I think I have made considerable contributions to both the Jiraiya cause and the Itachi cause enough so that I wouldn't be considered biased towards one more than the other, no?



I actually had you in mind tbh.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

No way that MShadows gets to judge.


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

@DaVizWiz @Atlantic Storm as judges??

@Shazam @Ziggy Stardust


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Atlantic storm yes. 

Davizwiz no.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Wiz has been making some outlandish claims as of recent, employing flawed methodology to calculate feats, less of a grasp of technical aspects than I once thought.


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @DaVizWiz @Atlantic Storm as judges??
> 
> @Shazam @Ziggy Stardust



Neither of those names are Mods. Its like they dont read


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

We're not talking about mods, we're talking about judges.  Judges don't have to be mods.


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Neither of those names are Mods. Its like they dont read


These are judges. You really think 3 mods are going to agree to vote? They seldom even post apart from flaming


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## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> These are judges. You really think 3 mods are going to agree to vote? They seldom even post apart from flaming



I said I am not being judged by members. If that is the case, lets just stick to the 2 I've already mentioned at the very start and get this thing on the road.


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## DaVizWiz (May 19, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Wiz has been making some outlandish claims as of recent, employing flawed methodology to calculate feats, less of a grasp of technical aspects than I once thought.


I see you’re still bent up over FCD not making a big enough crater for ziggy

Hold onto that grudge, love it, but not too tight, you might kill it



RSMNarutokillingdeltalasersbarelymadeacraterGG 

Attack Potency


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Funny shit.  

Real funny shit.  Why the hell does someone having moderator status make them a more partial judge. 

There are some very level headed posters on here that we can select.  Regardless, there's no way MSshadows is judging this.  Also you need more than two judges to make a decision.


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## Kisame (May 19, 2020)

Let shazam have his two mods and ziggy pick two judges, then others pick two other judges so it balances out?


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## t0xeus (May 19, 2020)

Shark said:


> Let shazam have his two mods and ziggy pick two judges, then others pick two other judges so it balances out?


Shazam doesn't want to be judged by regular posters, he said so many times. The problem is, there aren't many mods to pick from.


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## Kisame (May 19, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Shazam doesn't want to be judged by regular posters, he said so many times. The problem is, there aren't many mods to pick from.


Well someone is gonna have to make a compromise then.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

If Shazzy gets MShadows I'm getting Troyse.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Neither of those names are Mods. Its like they dont read


Do you want me to request my admin status back to ratify this?


----------



## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> Do you want me to request my admin status back to ratify this?




If you feel the need... go for it champ


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Slipped the radar @DaVizWiz 



DaVizWiz said:


> I see you’re still bent up over FCD not making a big enough crater for ziggy



That is the way of measuring the impact of a unknown weight dropping from the sky. Yes. 



> RSMNarutokillingdeltalasersbarelymadeacraterGG



The diameter of _laser_ means it's killing radius is focussed into a much smaller point as oppose to something that uniformly distributes it's impact across a large region, such as the ass of a giant toad.  This means It can indeed be _by order of magnitude_ more deadly to a person despite not destroying as much shit.  



> Hold onto that grudge, love it, but not too tight, you might kill it



No grudges, but as a self professed feats man, I don't find you competent enough to judge this if the two ideas above are beyond you.  I'd rather someone who just stuck to the statements even.


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## DaVizWiz (May 19, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Slipped the radar @DaVizWiz
> 
> 
> 
> ...


City block > Delta’s lasers > Bijuudama? 

Asura’s Laser was neighborhood level and wouldn’t scratch RSM Naruto



I wouldn’t judge anyway, too boring.

In the meantime study up on attack potency, it’s a thing in this manga.


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## Atlantic Storm (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> If you feel the need... go for it champ


nah, i'm good

@Santi, you love naruto, don't you?


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## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Welp, guess its off then.

What a let down


----------



## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Welp, guess its off then.
> 
> What a let down



whoa.... we are doing this either way, Ive got two mods who will help out. 

If Ziggy decline thats auto-Jiraiya victory and I bet never see his ass speak another word on the topic


----------



## Santí (May 19, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> nah, i'm good
> 
> @Santi, you love naruto, don't you?



He said, "Do you love me?" I tell him, "Only partly"
I only love my bans and my momma, I'm sorry


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

DaVizWiz said:


> City block > Delta’s lasers > Bijuudama?
> 
> In the meantime study up on attack potency, it’s a thing in this manga.



Well If attack potency is based on it's ability to kill something, as you implied, I guess FCD has a random snake and some zetsu's to it's name

Real potent shit,


----------



## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> whoa.... we are doing this either way, Ive got two mods who will help out.
> 
> If Ziggy decline thats auto-Jiraiya victory and I bet never see his ass speak another word on the topic


Which mods?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

So @Shazam, what exactly would be the difference if @Atlantic Storm got his moderator status back.

How and why does it affect his ability to judge our debate?


----------



## Shazam (May 19, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> So @Shazam, what exactly would be the difference if @Atlantic Storm got his moderator status back.
> 
> How and why does it affect his ability to judge our debate?



Apparently its affecting your ability to even want to participate

And to think you're the same guy who questioned if 3T Itachi could solo the Sannin... to be having questions now just about Jiraiya over who judges


----------



## t0xeus (May 19, 2020)

I will make a group convo and you guys can sort out there who can judge and so on.

2 pages in and we're not getting anywhere.

Edit: I can't start convo with @Shazam  can you make it then please?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Apparently its affecting your ability to even want to participate



Nope.

I couldn't care less whether @Atlantic Storm was a moderator or not. 

In my opinion, him getting his status back won't make him any more competent to judge.



Shazam said:


> And to think you're the same guy who questioned if 3T Itachi could solo the Sannin... to be having questions now just about Jiraiya over who judges



Let's put it this way, I'm far more confident in 3t Itachi's ability to solo the Sannin than your ability to fairly pick judges. 

Now I can agree to @FlamingRain being one of the judges.

We need at least two more.  3 so one can be the tie breaker.

I'd honestly prefer 5 judges so we get a broader array of opinions.  Which would make thinks more fair.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 19, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I will make a group convo and you guys can sort out there who can judge and so on.
> 
> 2 pages in and we're not getting anywhere.
> 
> Edit: I can't start convo with @Shazam  can you make it then please?



Let Shazam explain himself here tbh.

He can tell us how and why no member, not even an advisor,  is worthy to judge his awesome debating skills.


----------



## Sufex (May 19, 2020)

@Shazam 

Cmon bro, the NBD needs this it would be the battle of the ages


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 20, 2020)

@Shazam is the one stopping this debate from happening by setting the arbitrary rule that judges must have mod status, which seriously restricts how fair this debate can be.

I only disagreed to having MSshadows judge this.  I said that Flaiming Rain was ok.  We need _at least_ two more.  The most fair thing would be to have 5 judges.  And the 4 can all be members that we agree upon.  

@Atlantic Storm if he wants.  We can both agree that @Shark is unbiased and is more Sanin friendly than half the forum right now.


----------



## DaVizWiz (May 20, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Well If attack potency is based on it's ability to kill something, as you implied, I guess FCD has a random snake and some zetsu's to it's name
> 
> Real potent shit,


Well no, AP isn’t based on its ability to kill something it’s based on the potency of the attack itself

For instance Jigen’s physical kick can break through PS, yet has virtually no DC, that’s it’s AP, it’s ability to kill an opponent can be determined from that

Again I stress you go and study up on it because you seem to think this particular serialization is completely based on D/C which it never was, in fact some of the strongest attacks in the comic have garbage DC (Ash Bones, Nukite, TSB, RDS, RSM Claw, Six Paths Chidori, Kamui, Delta Lasers, Jigen Kick), even Ei4’s stiff arm with virtually no DC outperformed his crater forming liger bomb as it destroyed the ribcage susano, while the liger bomb only broke a rib on it.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 20, 2020)

DaVizWiz said:


> Well no, AP isn’t based on its ability to kill something it’s based on the potency of the attack itself



coolstory.



> For instance Jigen’s physical kick can break through PS, yet has virtually no DC, that’s it’s AP, it’s ability to kill an opponent can be determined from that



coolstory.



> Again I stress you go and study up on it because you seem to think this particular serialization is completely based on D/C




Nope.

First of I understand at - it's core -  _every_ methodology deigned to calculate feats is going to have flaws thanks to inconsistent writing in the mango, where no universal law of physics binds the interactions.  I said that much last time .  That is where I stand on this topic.  Despite this every feat is calculation based on some variable or set variables.  It's all math whether you like it or not - how high someone jumps, how fast someone runs, how hard they hit etc.

You might decide a Susanoo busting kick is potent because the charka deity tanked something that was, in some method, calculated to also be potent.  You might go further down the chain and decide something was potent becuase of It's ability to kill someone or yes, even because it obliterated a large swarth of land:



DaVizWiz said:


> Additionally it was you who implied Madara’s Perfect Susano cannot redirect Bijuudama right? *When I brought up BM Naruto slapping 5 of them away you still implied Perfect Susano’s Moutain Cutting shockwave from across a valley couldn’t redirect TBB*






DaVizWiz said:


> As it pertains to the entire matchup toads straight up hard counter Gengetsu’s entire offense since water pistols are a joke option against a building sized amphibian that ate a city block futon bomb to the face and survived a neighborhood ST that shot him across a village.






			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> No it doesn’t show one end because you want it to. It shows Kusanagi isn’t very powerful.
> 
> That’s a city block slash, which indicates the physicals were fully intact.






			
				DaVizWiz said:
			
		

> No I’m not. It appears you have 0 education in the regards of physics but Tsunamis destroy entire islands, even a homeless coke head roaming the streets would know this, so perhaps I’m overrating you.




It's not *the* defining variable to quantify "potency".  But it can be used as _a_ _variable, _and should be when others are either absent or impossible to gauge_. _You seem to agree.


So when it comes to something like FCD :


- I _don't_ know the worth of killing mid-tier serpents or Zetsu clones.

- I _don't _how much effort Kurama is using to keep himself balanced while
 charging a TBB; and not bracing himself for any additional mass coming from directly above.

-  I _don't _know how much mass it will take to _tip _that balance.

-  I know that the effort used to keep himself upright is variable, and can change depending on what he expects to brace himself from.  That effort could differ by order of magnitude

- I know that, as general theme of the mango, characters tend to be hit worse when caught of guard

- I know that FCD didn't really hurt Kurama in some way.


Outside of the unknowns, I can judge it on the fact that it's some weight of giant toad dropped from 100 meters in the sky and leaves craters in it's wake ; it has a destructive capacity.  And I can compare it to things with a similar or better DC, just like you did with Madara's perfect Susanoo.


----------



## t0xeus (May 20, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust @DaVizWiz 
take it elsewhere, this is not the place for it


----------



## DaVizWiz (May 20, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> coolstory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s not just math we’re talking about magic here, math can be included.

No one cares about killing Zetsu or the snake, the high end for FCD is toppling Kurama which hundreds of SS punches and over a dozen TBB detonations failed to do.

You can judge it anyway you want but anything less than crushing a Raikage is wrong. FCD is rather high on the AP totem.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 20, 2020)

DaVizWiz said:


> It’s not just math we’re talking about magic here, math can be included.




Unless it's something more holistic like a statement "x character is >y" then it's math.  All feats are math.  You're looking to calculate "attack potency" based on one or more variables in order to quantify them amongst others.  That's math. No one said it has to be a precise math, but it is what it is and is what it isn't




DaVizWiz said:


> No one cares about killing Zetsu or the snake




Yeah, no shit.  Hence why I used DC to calculate it's potency.  I can use that to draw comparisons.




DaVizWiz said:


> You can judge it anyway you want



No.  I specifically won't do that.  I will judge feats on variables that can somehow be quantified as accurately as possible based on the information we have. 

_You_ can "do what you want" but don't lecture people on "researching AP" with that ethos in mind..




DaVizWiz said:


> the high end for FCD is toppling Kurama which hundreds of SS punches and over a dozen TBB detonations failed to do.




yep yep.

First of all, is there conclusive proof he stood his ground?  The smoke screen makes it hard to tell

Second of all, like I said, the effort used to keep himself upright when he's not expecting an oncoming attack from above can be by order of magnitude different to when he is.  You can visualise the difference as a demon monster capable wagging his tails with enough force cause chaos, mountain range destruction and Tsunamis, but doesn't do that every time he moves his them.  For the comparison to be even remotely fair, you need to find me the Panels of FCD used against Kurama who's already bracing himself for it's impact.  Otherwise, a boulder dropped from high enough could probably do the same.

Even if you had a perfect comparison (you don't), given that you we're willing to throw out DC based on the assumption that Asura Path couldn't kill RSM Naruto, I guess we can throw out "Toppling Kurama" as reliable variable on the assumption that it wouldn't do shit to Hashirama in SM.  Besides, Early WA SM Naruto did something far more than just unbalance Kurama in their fight .




DaVizWiz said:


> but anything less than crushing a Raikage is wrong.



Given that SM naruto could lift Kurama over his head with no favourable leverage, but was still scratching his head looking for ways to actually damage the Raiakge, I'd say no.  Not even close.  Oh, and he had FCD at his disposal as well.



DaVizWiz said:


> FCD is rather high on the AP totem.



I would scale it lower than rasengan.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## t0xeus (May 20, 2020)

DaVizWiz said:


> It’s not just math we’re talking about magic here, math can be included.
> 
> No one cares about killing Zetsu or the snake, the high end for FCD is toppling Kurama which hundreds of SS punches and over a dozen TBB detonations failed to do.
> 
> You can judge it anyway you want but anything less than crushing a Raikage is wrong. FCD is rather high on the AP totem.





Ziggy Stardust said:


> Unless it's something more holistic like a statement "x character is >y" then it's math.  All feats are math.  You're looking to calculate "attack potency" based on one or more variables in order to quantify them amongst others.  That's math. No one said it has to be a precise math, but it is what it is and is what it isn't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One last time, take it elsewhere please.


----------



## Mawt (May 20, 2020)

Btw I'm for real open to judging if you guys need anybody @Shazam @Ziggy Stardust. Most people would agree that I'm impartial.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 20, 2020)

Yes, please judge.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Let shazam have his two mods and ziggy pick two judges, then others pick two other judges so it balances out?



@Shazam 

This is how we can do it.

We do it this way, or we just have a public poll. 

We're going to do this debate fair or not at all.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shazam
> 
> This is how we can do it.
> 
> ...



Public poll literally provides nothing more than a consensus. Which most likely won't even be based on the debate but previously held positions.


Mods to oversee it (I've already picked them days ago)
Soul to set up the thread (or @~Kakashi~ )
Not having members be the judges unless we agree on who they are.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

You get two members, I get two members. two members are picked by others. 

That's fair.


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## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> You get two members, I get two members. two members are picked by others.
> 
> That's fair.



Who are the most neutral members when it comes to Itachi v Jiraiya? Decide who those are.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Who are the most neutral members when it comes to Itachi v Jiraiya? Decide who those are.



Who do you think they are?


----------



## t0xeus (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Public poll literally provides nothing more than a consensus. Which most likely won't even be based on the debate but previously held positions.
> 
> 
> Mods to oversee it (I've already picked them days ago)
> ...


Why do you want the thread to be set up by either Soul or Kakashi?

If you guys agree on the rules, then what's the problem with me making the thread?


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Who do you think they are?



Guessing here 

@Hi no Ishi 
@Veracity 
@Shark 
@Cherry


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Pick two


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## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Why do you want the thread to be set up by either Soul or Kakashi?
> 
> If you guys agree on the rules, then what's the problem with me making the thread?



Because those two (specifically @Soul ) has been apart of the older debating set up back when it was grand


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Pick two



Sure 
@Cherry 
@Veracity

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Alright I want @Shark and @Mawt 

@t0xeus can you get some peeps to decide on two more for us. 

Be fair.  Shazam and I get 3 vetos each for people who we really don't want judging.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Alright I want @Shark and @Mawt
> 
> @t0xeus can you get some peeps to decide on two more for us.
> 
> Be fair.  Shazam and I get 3 vetos each for people who we really don't want judging.



I dont see how this is allowing for the Mods to double as mods and judges... adding 3 members who are agreed upon will make 5 judges


----------



## t0xeus (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Alright I want @Shark and @Mawt
> 
> @t0xeus can you get some peeps to decide on two more for us.
> 
> Be fair.  Shazam and I get 3 vetos each for people who we really don't want judging.


I'd say these are all solid picks and don't have any biases against you two, or the characters you're going to be arguing for.
@Atlantic Storm
@ThirdRidoku
@DaVizWiz
@Crimson Flam3s
@LostSelf
@Kai
@Beyonce

edit: forgot @Blu-ray


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I'd say these are all solid picks and don't have any biases against you two, or the characters you're going to be arguing for.
> @Atlantic Storm
> @ThirdRidoku
> @DaVizWiz
> ...



Half your list has a solidly low opinion of the sannin.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

@Blu-ray hates my guts dude. 

Thinks I'm a cretin, lost a Konoha court case against me.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

That being said, I think @Blu-ray is a smart guy.  

He was just being unfair with me.


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## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust also what is considered a Victory?

You believe Itachi can solo the sannin, so shouldn't a low diff win for Itachi over Jiraiya more times than not under fair conditions (manga) be your terms of victory while me providing good reason that they go even more times than not be my terms to victory?


----------



## Sufex (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Half your list has a solidly low opinion of the sannin.


Viz, lostself, atlantic kai and crimson flame are all impartial


----------



## t0xeus (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Half your list has a solidly low opinion of the sannin.


I thought you're only looking for just 1-2 more people?

I didn't expect you to agree on all of those picks.


Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Blu-ray hates my guts dude.
> 
> Thinks I'm a cretin, lost a Konoha court case against me.


didn't know that.
you can pick from the rest tho

Like Atlantic or Kai I think neither of you have problems with


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Viz, lostself, atlantic and crimson flame are all impartial



But Flaming and Mshadow are not?


----------



## Sufex (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> But Flaming and Mshadow are not?


I never said that


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> But Flaming and Mshadow are not?




I don't think they are, no.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I never said that



I dont think that anyone who already holds firmly to one side or another as being a fair member to pick.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

@Shark 

Can you name some people who will judge this fairly ?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I'd say these are all solid picks and don't have any biases against you two, or the characters you're going to be arguing for.
> @Atlantic Storm
> @ThirdRidoku
> @DaVizWiz
> ...



@Shazam 

out of this lot, who do you Veto?


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shazam
> 
> out of this lot, who do you Veto?



All besides Blu Ray, Lost Self and Beyonce


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

@Blu-ray I'd like you to judge this. 

If you judge this, will you let your personal dislike for me slide


----------



## Serene Grace (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Sure
> @Cherry
> @Veracity




Wait what can I do for you?

Edit: nvm I read up a bit

What is the matchup?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Judge our debate. 

@Shazam seems to think you're a reasonable dude.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Cherry said:


> Wait what can I do for you?
> 
> Edit: nvm I read up a bit
> 
> What is the matchup?



Jiraiya vs Living Itachi

Terms of victory for Ziggy is to provide reason that Itachi wins low diff. Terms of victory for me is to provide reason that they go evenly more times than not


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Cherry said:


> What is the matchup?



Take a wild guess. 

which two characters have been pit against each other endlessly.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Terms of victory for Ziggy is to provide reason that Itachi wins low diff. Terms of victory for me is to provide reason that they go evenly more times than not



I never agreed to that. 

You're a slippery guy Shazam, I should have known. 

You've been devious since the days of getting both your accounts to down vote my every argument.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I never agreed to that.
> 
> You're a slippery guy Shazam, I should have known.
> 
> You've been devious since the days of getting both your accounts to down vote my every argument.



I quoted you and you didn't reply to it. So I assumed that was fine.

But then again if you disagree then you're shifting goal post. As you have Itachi soloing sannin therefore you must support a low diff win for Itachi against Jiraiya, correct?

I've always said that its 50/50 and you disagree.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I quoted you and you didn't reply to it. So I assumed that was fine.



Yes.  You're a slime ball. 



Shazam said:


> But then again if you disagree then you're shifting goal post. As you have Itachi soloing sannin therefore you must support a low diff win for Itachi against Jiraiya, correct?



As it pertains to our debate, you wanted me vs you SM Jman vs Itachi 

The premise of it assumes he who convinces the judges which one wins also wins the debate. 

Any extra victory conditions that tilt things in Jman's favour is you shifting the goal posts.


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Yes.  You're a slime ball.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I notice how you divert and did not answer my question in the post you quoted. Don't worry, I know I pinned you in a corner with that


----------



## Hi no Ishi (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Guessing here
> 
> @Hi no Ishi
> @Veracity
> ...





Shazam said:


> I dont think that anyone who already holds firmly to one side or another as being a fair member to pick.





Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shark
> 
> Can you name some people who will judge this fairly ?


To be fair, I should say I think Itachi wins most  direct NBD style match ups with Jiraiya.

I could be convinced otherwise as I don't really see them as far apart either.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I notice how you divert and did not answer my question in the post you quoted



Reiterate it?


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Reiterate it?



Ziggy: Itachi solos Sannin 


What does this mean? 
It means his position is that he low diffs Jiraiya at the very least 
- therefore what your terms of victory ought to be is what you hold true? Correct?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Ziggy: Itachi solos Sannin
> 
> 
> What does this mean?
> ...



I disagree with that last part, given that the specific challenge I accepted was based on Itachi vs Jiraiya judged by a panel of 6 people. 

What i personally think on the match up is irreverent to the victory conditions.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Anyway @Shazam, seen as you've tried to stack things in your favour more than a few times, care to tell me why you backed out of debating @Santoryu ?


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Anyway @Shazam, seen as you've tried to stack things in your favour more than a few times, care to tell me why you backed out of debating @Santoryu ?



I never backed out of debating Santoryu???


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## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

I'll be a judge then.


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## Mawt (May 23, 2020)

The vs battle is Jiraiya vs Itachi. No arbitrary details should be added such as "Poster X must provide a case for Character X low diffing Character Y"

Whoever makes the most convincing case for Jiraiya/Itachi should get the vote. Difficulty shouldn't be a factor imo.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 23, 2020)

Mawt said:


> The vs battle is Jiraiya vs Itachi. No arbitrary details should be added such as "Poster X must provide a case for Character X low diffing Character Y"
> 
> Whoever makes the most convincing case for Jiraiya/Itachi should get the vote. Difficulty shouldn't be a factor imo.



This. 

That way we won't have any ShazamG buggery.


----------



## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

Ok so so far we have me, @Veracity , @Cherry , @Mawt as judges


Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shark
> 
> Can you name some people who will judge this fairly ?


@Kai
@FlamingRain 
@LostSelf 
@Hi no Ishi 

Are who I can think of, they're less likely to interject their own opinion in judging the arguments. 

I think both of you wouldn't have a problem with most of them, no? @Shazam

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Ok so so far we have me, @Veracity , @Cherry , @Mawt as judges
> 
> @Kai
> @FlamingRain
> ...



Let's do it.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 23, 2020)

Should JuicyG be an honorary judge?


----------



## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Let's do it.


Alright

If I'm not mistaken @Hi no Ishi is on board correct?

That leaves one judge

@Kai
@FlamingRain 
@LostSelf 

Any one of you would want to judge this?

@Ziggy Stardust


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Alright
> 
> If I'm not mistaken @Hi no Ishi is on board correct?
> 
> ...



Flame


----------



## Shazam (May 23, 2020)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Should JuicyG be an honorary judge?



Of course


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Veto to both hi no ish and flame.

That would be giving shaz four of his judge choices. 

@Shark have you not been keeping up


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## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Veto to both hi no ish and flame.


Well that leaves Kai and LostSelf

@Kai @LostSelf

Also @t0xeus @Mawt can you guys give some suggestions so we can get this rolling?


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## t0xeus (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Well that leaves Kai and LostSelf
> 
> @Kai @LostSelf
> 
> Also @t0xeus @Mawt can you guys give some suggestions ao we can get this rolling?


I already suggested 8 different people one or two pages ago


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## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

Do you guys mind @t0xeus judging?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Ok so so far we have me, @Veracity , @Cherry , @Mawt as judges
> 
> @Kai
> @FlamingRain
> ...



To be fair, you could've called the Hi no Ishi veto with the amount of Jiraiya Spam threads he's made.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Mawt said:


> The vs battle is Jiraiya vs Itachi. No arbitrary details should be added such as "Poster X must provide a case for Character X low diffing Character Y"
> 
> Whoever makes the most convincing case for Jiraiya/Itachi should get the vote. Difficulty shouldn't be a factor imo.



Shazam is one of the slippery members on this board, but I saw right through his rouse on day one. 

A genuine corrupt piece of shit that's almost hard to put into words.  But I'll demonstrate it :



Shazam said:


> @ziggystardust we need to have a mod check your IP address. You are certainly some whiny ass dupe of a member whose been rejected too many times.... Honestly think you might be @Sage light



If you check the likes on that post you will find JuicyG's name struck out.


----------



## Gin Ichimaru (May 23, 2020)

Did you specify Itachi's condition? Is this living Itachi healthy, sick Itachi that fought Sasuke, or itachi at P1 health


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Gin Ichimaru said:


> Did you specify Itachi's condition? Is this living Itachi healthy, sick Itachi that fought Sasuke, or itachi at P1 health



I don't think we should specify. I expect this will be part of the argument itself.

Shazam has asked for living Itachi.  That imo, should be their prime versions.

However, he will attempt to argue that Itachi is in his prime at the end of part 2.  I will argue otherwise.


----------



## Mawt (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Also @t0xeus @Mawt can you guys give some suggestions so we can get this rolling?


I don't really have any recommendations that haven't already been stated previously. How many more judges do we need?


----------



## Mawt (May 23, 2020)

@LostSelf and @Kai are both impartial towards this match up from what I've seen. I don't see any issue with them being judges.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (May 23, 2020)

@blk is someone I can recommend. While he does rank Itachi pretty highly, he is a pretty objective judge.


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## Veracity (May 23, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Sure
> @Cherry
> @Veracity



For sure, always down to judge.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 23, 2020)

Shark said:


> Do you guys mind @t0xeus judging?



Shazam has already ran out of vetos. 

I wouldn't mind t0xeus


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## Kisame (May 23, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Shazam has already ran out of vetos.
> 
> I wouldn't mind t0xeus


So that makes 5 judges.

One more guys


----------



## Mawt (May 24, 2020)

@NamesClassified @kayz are two other good posters, although they're a little inactive.

Anyway, I think LostSelf or Kai could take the last seat since Ziggy seems to be fine either one of them.


----------



## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

Shark said:


> So that makes 5 judges.
> 
> One more guys



I'm in


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Sorry Troy...


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## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

@Shark @Ziggy Stardust @Shazam I will be one of the judges for this debate, why not


----------



## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Sorry Troy...



????


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Someone else has to recommend you first.

And even though Shazam has ran out of vetos, I think It would be in poor taste to have someone of your disposition towards Jiraiya doing voting...


----------



## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Someone else has to recommend you first.
> 
> And even though Shazam has ran out of vetos, I think It would be in poor taste to have someone of your disposition towards Jiraiya doing voting...



I don't mind Jiraiya at all, I've repeatedly said he's one of the most influential people in the manga, if not THE most influential.

I just don't like the Sannin CAMP.

If the arguments are good and he outdebates you I will have no issue voting for him 

I do think Itachi beats Jiraiya, however that doesnt mean you'd be up to the task of beating him in a debate


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> I don't mind Jiraiya at all, I've repeatedly said he's one of the most influential people in the manga, if not THE most influential.
> 
> I just don't like the Sannin CAMP.



We're on the same page fella.  But there's no way Shazzy is gonna go through with the debate if you're on the panel.



Troyse22 said:


> If the arguments are good and he outdebates you I will have no issue voting for him
> 
> I do think Itachi beats Jiraiya, however that doesnt mean you'd be up to the task of beating him in a debate



Thing is, because of your beliefs and convictions, you'll be swayed more towards a certain type of argument for either of these characters.


----------



## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> But there's no way Shazzy is gonna go through with the debate if you're on the panel.



I guess not, but I genuinely believe I could judge a formal debate fairly.

But I'm not gonna beg lmao, I just wanted to help out



Ziggy Stardust said:


> Thing is, because of your beliefs and convictions, you'll be swayed more towards a certain type of argument for either of these characters.



You really do underestimate my integrity 

Me judging in favor of Shazam wouldn't mean I believe Jiraiya beats Itachi, it means I believe he debated his position better and it was more feasible than yours.

But I hope you guys find a judge, hopefully one who won't be a biased cuck like you guys think ill be


----------



## Shazam (May 24, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> @Shark @Ziggy Stardust @Shazam I will be one of the judges for this debate, why not



Lol


----------



## Beyonce (May 24, 2020)

If you guys are still in need of a judge, I would be happy to do it. (unless i've been vetoed already lol)


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## blk (May 24, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @blk is someone I can recommend. While he does rank Itachi pretty highly, he is a pretty objective judge.



I can judge if you guys want.

Yes i rate Itachi highly, but i will judge the arguments ofc.

A better argument for a character that i might consider weaker will still get my vote, since we rate the argumentation skills of the debaters here.



Also just as a general suggestion, i would use the inductive argument form to make everything smoother if i were you.

By establishing a precise list of premises:
1)...
2)...
3)...
Etc
And then how the conclusion is arrived from them
C)...

With as many evidences as needed for each premise. 

Anyway i'm looking forward to a formal Itachi vs Jman debate if it happens


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

@blk

I think you're an incredibly insightful poster, but shazam probably won't want you on board.  

You and I are a little to close in our ways of interpreting things, and I'm looking for people who are a blend of both.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Beyonce (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> fuck off.


LMFAO suck my dick from the back


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## Kisame (May 24, 2020)

We have 5 judges 

Isn't that enough? 2 by ziggy, 2 by Shazam, 1 is general


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Beyonce said:


> LMFAO suck my dick from the back



Shame about that Quarantine.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 24, 2020)

I equally disagree Ziggy's interpretation of Itachi and ShazamG's version of Jiraiya if that means anything.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

@Shazam

Pick someone else besides @Veracity please.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shazam
> 
> Pick someone else besides @Veracity please.



?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Shazam said:


> ?



It means I've done my best to facilitate you in picking judges who won't rub you the wrong way.


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## t0xeus (May 24, 2020)

Samael, Santoryu or Sufex would also be impartial and really good judges imo.


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## Shazam (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> It means I've done my best to facilitate you in picking judges who won't rub you the wrong way.



Why suddenly do you disagree


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Fine.

I guess one judge I dislike amongst 5 reasonable ones isn't such bad odds.

We need another.


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## Shazam (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Fine.
> 
> I guess one judge I dislike amongst 5 reasonable ones isn't such bad odds.
> 
> We need another.



What makes you dislike him now and not when you were fine with it


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## Veracity (May 24, 2020)

Shazam said:


> What makes you dislike him now and not when you were fine with it


Because I don’t think Tsunade gets one paneled by 3T Itachi apparently.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Veracity said:


> Because I don’t think Tsunade gets one paneled by 3T Itachi apparently.



It's more your specific argumentation then your opinions on things.  almost I the judges we picked don't think that, but they still wouldn't give the half ass, and clearly biased reasoning you do.


----------



## Kisame (May 24, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> It's more your specific argumentation then your opinions on things.  almost I the judges we picked don't think that, but they still wouldn't give the half ass, and clearly biased reasoning you do.


Let's get over that now if you're cool with him.

Just one more so we can wrap this up


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 24, 2020)

Shark said:


> Let's get over that now if you're cool with him.
> 
> Just one more so we can wrap this up



I'm not at all cool with him.  But I'll let it pass as long as I get my last judge.

@LostSelf ?

You in?


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## Kisame (May 24, 2020)

@LostSelf let's go


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## Troyse22 (May 24, 2020)

You ever stop and wonder that you may be an asshole if u can't find 6 judges? Not directed at anyone specific but Jesus...


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

I don't have to wonder.


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## Mad Scientist (May 25, 2020)

*I challenge : *@FlamingRain
*Match:* WA Tsunade vs WA Kakashi
*Location:* Lost Forest or Konoha Crater?
*Knowledge:* whatever they knew of each other in Part 1
*Distance:* 50 Metres
*Mindset:* IC + Clear KI
*Restrictions:* None?

5 or 7 judges. For judges, I nominate @Soul, @Santoryu, @Atlantic Storm, @t0xeus, @Veracity, @~Kakashi~, and @SakuraLover16 if you guys are up for it?

Prizes will be a lot of rep and cementing the winning character into NBD history in a formal debate between two titans.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Kisame (May 25, 2020)

Why don't we just do it with five judges?

Ziggy's pick:
1. Shark
2. Mawt
Shazam's pick:
3. Veracity
4. Cherry 
Neutral:
5. T0xeus 

@Ziggy Stardust @Shazam


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

Hows @Santoryu for judging ?


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

Shark said:


> Why don't we just do it with five judges?
> 
> Ziggy's pick:
> 1. Shark
> ...




Shark we can start the debate now anyway.

I still want a sixth judge, but that can be lined up. 

And if we don't find one by the debates cadence, we'll just have to live with it.


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## Soul (May 25, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@FlamingRain
> *Match:* WA Tsunade vs WA Kakashi
> *Location:* Lost Forest or Konoha Crater?
> *Knowledge:* whatever they knew of each other in Part 1
> ...



Sure.


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## Shazam (May 25, 2020)

Shark said:


> Why don't we just do it with five judges?
> 
> Ziggy's pick:
> 1. Shark
> ...



Hell fucking no to T0x


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## Kisame (May 25, 2020)

4 judges then?


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## Soul (May 25, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Hell fucking no to T0x





Shark said:


> 4 judges then?


Just get someone that is actually neutral.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

You've ran out of vetos for neutral judges my son. 

t0x happens to be one of the smartest members here in both credentials and education.  A distinction in masturbatory arts at MangaUniversity


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

Soul said:


> Just get someone that is actually neutral.



I accept.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

So can @Soul judge ?


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## Atlantic Storm (May 25, 2020)

I'm willing to judge, provided someone doesn't veto me again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I'm willing to judge, provided someone doesn't veto me again.



yes please.


----------



## SakuraLover16 (May 25, 2020)

I don’t mind but would you really have confidence in my ability to be objective?


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## Shazam (May 25, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> You've ran out of vetos for neutral judges my son.
> 
> t0x happens to be one of the smartest members here in both credentials and education.  A distinction in masturbatory arts at MangaUniversity



If you want T0x as a judge for this... (when he has Jiraiya losing to some of the weakest people but somehow beating Minato - clearly doesn't know Jiraiya's character- ), then I'll trade in one of my judges for @JiraiyaFlash


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I don’t mind but would you really have confidence in my ability to be objective?



not remotely plus you're an idiot.

@Shazam

fair play.  We get atlantic storm instead?


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## SakuraLover16 (May 25, 2020)

Did you of all people call me an idiot? Project much?


----------



## PocketGod (May 25, 2020)

Everyone else by the time Shazam vs Ziggy actually starts:


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

We can start now.  I still want 6 judges, because it makes things more objective and fair.  We can start with 5 though. @Atlantic Storm comes well reccomeneded.


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## Soul (May 25, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I'm willing to judge, provided someone doesn't veto me again.


Why were you vetoed? Drunk judging again?


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

Soul said:


> Why were you vetoed? Drunk judging again?



It's a long story. 

i can tell you if you agree to judge for us ?


----------



## Soul (May 25, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> It's a long story.
> 
> i can tell you if you agree to judge for us ?



I don't really care for the story. Can judge either way.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

And then there were six.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

@Shark 

Can you set up the thread? 

Shazzy G vs Ziggtard 

Location : Deidara vs Sasuke 
Living versions.  Prime for both (I expect this will be part of the argument for Itachi)
Distance : 30 meters 
Mindset : IC with intent to kill 
Knowledge : Manga 

3 posts maximum for each debater before voting 

I think Shazam wants Jman starting in SM, but not sure.


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## Mad Scientist (May 25, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I don’t mind but would you really have confidence in my ability to be objective?


What matters more? My confidence in you to be objective or your confidence in yourself to be objective?

This is just a fun debate 

I won't hold it against you if you end up voting for FlamingRain (though if, and only if, there's a clear strong bias it will leave a sour taste in my mouth, but rest assured that will go away with time).


----------



## SakuraLover16 (May 25, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> What matters more? My confidence in you to be objective or your confidence in yourself to be objective?
> 
> This is just a fun debate
> 
> I won't hold it against you if you end up voting for FlamingRain (though if, and only if, there's a clear strong bias it will leave a sour taste in my mouth, but that will go away with time).


I can look at something objectively I won’t outright ignore the points you make. It should be a requirement to get reasoning from all of the judges.


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## Soul (May 25, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I can look at something objectively I won’t outright ignore the points you make.



Then there's no problem


----------



## Mad Scientist (May 25, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I can look at something objectively I won’t outright ignore the points you make. It should be a requirement to get reasoning from all of the judges.


Yes, it's a requirement. Okay then, would you be on board? I would appreciate it.


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## SakuraLover16 (May 25, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Yes, it's a requirement. Okay then, would you be on board? I would appreciate it.


Yes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JiraiyaFlash (May 25, 2020)

@Shazam  Whats goin on ? 

And why u guys still hope to expect proper debating against biased and prejudgmental people ? Who already will despite and refute what u guys gonna bring ?

But if u want any help or judgement, i might try for you.


----------



## ~Kakashi~ (May 25, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@FlamingRain
> *Match:* WA Tsunade vs WA Kakashi
> *Location:* Lost Forest or Konoha Crater?
> *Knowledge:* whatever they knew of each other in Part 1
> ...



Yeah I can judge if needed.


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## Mad Scientist (May 25, 2020)

~Kakashi~ said:


> Yeah I can judge if needed.


Thanks!


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

JiraiyaFlash said:


> @Shazam  Whats goin on ?
> 
> And why u guys still hope to expect proper debating against biased and prejudgmental people ? Who already will despite and refute what u guys gonna bring ?
> 
> But if u want any help or judgement, i might try for you.



Shazam was only threatening me with you and your... peculiar intellect. 

But don't worry, we've enough judges now.  Maybe next debate...


----------



## Kisame (May 25, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> @Shark
> 
> Can you set up the thread?
> 
> ...


*Judges:*
Shark
@Veracity
@Cherry
@Mawt
@Atlantic Storm
@Soul

Shazam vs Ziggy Stardust

Location : Deidara vs Sasuke
Distance : 30 meters
Mindset : IC with intent to kill
Knowledge : Manga

3 posts maximum for each debater before voting

@Shazam @Ziggy Stardust you two okay with this?

If so, only thing left is to agree on whether Jiraiya starts in base or SM, and what version of Itachi this is (or like Ziggy said it can be Prime living Itachi and part of the debate itself).

Other than that we can get this going.


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 25, 2020)

All good. 

You might else well make the thread. 

Any additional details can be put in an edit.


----------



## Troyse22 (May 25, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> All good.
> 
> You might else well make the thread.
> 
> Any additional details can be put in an edit.



Oof @Shark and @Cherry
Well thats 2 votes already in Shazams favor, you better bring your A game to get the other votes.

Imagine, Jiraiyaflash trying to get in on this debate LOL, at best you could hope for a tie at that point.

Gl, I look forward to reading the 4 valid judges analysis' and ofc your guys' arguments


----------



## Serene Grace (May 25, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Oof @Shark and @Cherry
> Well thats 2 votes already in Shazams favor, you better bring your A game to get the other votes.
> 
> Imagine, Jiraiyaflash trying to get in on this debate LOL, at best you could hope for a tie at that point.
> ...


Me and shark actually think Itachi wins this matchup, albeit with difficulty


----------



## Troyse22 (May 25, 2020)

Cherry said:


> Me and shark actually think Itachi wins this matchup, albeit with difficulty



You're not fooling anybody man.

"Jiraiya breathes"

"Great argument man you win"


----------



## Serene Grace (May 25, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> You're not fooling anybody man.
> 
> "Jiraiya breathes"
> 
> "Great argument man you win"


Seems like I’ve been exposed


----------



## Kisame (May 25, 2020)

@Shazam 

1. Does Jiraiya start in base or SM?
2. What version of Itachi?
3. Do you agree with the match conditions suggested above?

So we can get rolling


----------



## Soul (May 25, 2020)

What's the ETA for this to start?



Veracity said:


> Because I don’t think Tsunade gets one paneled by 3T Itachi apparently.



HERESY


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

@Shazam Let's get this show on the road....


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust @Shark 

I still want @FlamingRain here for this to directly oversee and even act as a judge. So that means removing either Soul AS or Mawt


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Also, stips are that Itachi is Living restricted from Koto Crow, Manga Intel or full intel and In-Character (No BD bloodlusted) Distance is fine at 25-30 Meters


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

Shazam said:


> @Ziggy Stardust @Shark
> 
> I still want @FlamingRain here for this to directly oversee and even act as a judge. So that means removing either Soul AS or Mawt



I'm not removing judges.

You can either replace him for one of yours or he can be the seventh.  Seventh means there's a tie breaker too.


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I'm not removing judges.
> 
> You can either replace him for one of yours or he can be the seventh.  Seventh means there's a tie breaker too.



That's fine with adding an extra here. 

Still need to flesh out the conditions for a victory according to our positions @Shark As you know my position is 50/50 and has not changed, so I can agree that Itachi wins on the condition that the chances of Jiraiya winning are just as high.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

If you can convince people Jman wins 5/10 times, that can be your victory condition.  

I'll convince people that Itachi wins outright or for a majority.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> If you can convince people Jman wins 5/10 times, that can be your victory condition.
> 
> I'll convince people that Itachi wins outright or for a majority.



Alright Im game. 

Someone set this up and also make sure we flesh out what the rules are about positing and rounds


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Also, stips are that Itachi is Living restricted from Koto Crow, Manga Intel or full intel and In-Character (No BD bloodlusted) Distance is fine at 25-30 Meters



You need to let Shark know the important part, does Jman start in SM?


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> You need to let Shark know the important part, does Jman start in SM?



If it does not matter either way to you, then sure have the fight start MS vs Sage Mode


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

Shazzy G vs Ziggtard 

Location : Deidara vs Sasuke 
Conditions : Living versions, Jiraiya starts in SM
Restrictions : Kotoakatsumi gg
Distance : 25 meters 
Mindset : IC with intent to kill 
Knowledge : Manga 
Victory conditions : Jiraiya wins 50% of the time.  Itachi for a majority or more. 

3 posts maximum for each debater before voting


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> 3 posts maximum for each debater before voting



2 intro's 
2 rebuttal's 
1 conclusion 

For each poster


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

Also the poster who goes 2nd intro will not go last conclusion post


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## Mawt (May 26, 2020)

Let's get this show started


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## t0xeus (May 26, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust @Shazam 
What's the judging criteria?

You wanna use my template?

*Spoiler*: __ 





Analysis (The level of thinking and analysis)
Creativity (The creativity)
Structure (The structure/flow of argument/Visually appealing)
Factual (Are they using logical/factual contents from the manga?)
Persuasiveness (How persuasive were they? Did they convince you?)

On the basis of S, A, B, C (+/-)

For example:
*Analysis - S+*
(Followed by reason - How far did they go to analyse a situation? The level of thinking and detail?)

*Creativity - A-*
(Followed by reason - New methods of winning that you didn't previously thought of? Combinations that you didn't know existed?)

*Structure - B+*
(Followed by reason)

*Factual - C-*
(Followed by reason - Point out things you see seriously wrong. Point out on things you didn't previously know. )

*Persuasiveness - S+*
(Followed by reason - Did you change your mind on the match up? Did you gain a new perspective?)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Ziggy Stardust @Shazam
> What's the judging criteria?
> 
> You wanna use my template?
> ...



Sure. Unless the judges want something else


----------



## t0xeus (May 26, 2020)

Shark asked me to make the thread so just to confirm:


Shazam said:


> 2 intro's
> 2 rebuttal's
> 1 conclusion
> 
> For each poster


Both of you will make 2 intros each?
Or is that a typo?


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Shark asked me to make the thread so just to confirm:
> 
> Both of you will make 2 intros each?
> Or is that a typo?



one intro


----------



## Shazam (May 26, 2020)

While we are at it.. 

Who would be interested in tackling this Sannin vs Masters thing going on 


A 2 team debate Orochimaru + Tsunade vs Kakashi & Gai 
Each team needs 3 members to debate
Only 1 post from each team member building off of their previous teammates posts and points


----------



## Sufex (May 26, 2020)

Shazam said:


> While we are at it..
> 
> Who would be interested in tackling this Sannin vs Masters thing going on
> 
> ...


@Mad Scientist @Santoryu @Jad @Architect

Intrested?


----------



## Mad Scientist (May 26, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @Crimson King




@Crimson Flam3s



Sufex said:


> @Mad Scientist @Santoryu @Crimson King @Jad @Architect
> 
> Intrested?


Sounds interesting...



Who would be the opposition's best and brightest?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (May 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Crimson Flam3s
> 
> 
> Sounds interesting...
> ...


Lol my bad


----------



## Sufex (May 26, 2020)

@t0xeus  would you be interested in debating for the masters?


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## t0xeus (May 26, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @t0xeus  would you be interested in debating for the masters?


Not now, I got exams coming up.


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## Ziggy Stardust (May 26, 2020)

I'd be interested in a Master-bating...


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust  and @Mad Scientist  vs @Shazam  and another one of you picking


To make things easiler why dont ya'll use the same judges as last time.


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

@Veracity @Orochimaru op @Cherry @Isaiah13000 @Shark would any of you be intrested in debating with shazam for the sannin side?


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## Serene Grace (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> @Veracity @Orochimaru op @Cherry @Isaiah13000 @Shark would any of you be intrested in debating with shazam for the sannin side?


why not i suppose

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Nice, we just need 1 more for the master side and 1 more for the sannin side


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Maybe @Turrin ? @Jad ? @Hussain


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Nice, we just need 1 more for the master side and 1 more for the sannin side




What’s the match?


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> What’s the match?


Read the last page


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Read the last page




I’m down


What Orochimaru are we talking about? Hashirama cells Oro? Sick RDS Oro (Kn4) or P1 Oro? What Edo tensei is allowed of any at all?


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I’m down
> 
> 
> What Orochimaru are we talking about? Hashirama cells Oro? Sick RDS Oro (Kn4) or P1 Oro? What Edo tensei is allowed of any at all?


Ask your partners @Shazam  and @Cherry


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## The_Conqueror (May 27, 2020)

Best of luck to both of you guys. 
But in reality everyone knows this is going to be a yomi numa gg


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## Turrin (May 27, 2020)

I would do Sannin side but I really can’t do links or make my posts look pretty due to my phone; also is there a word limit? @Sufex


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I would do Sannin side but I really can’t do links or make my posts look pretty due to my phone; also is there a word limit? @Sufex





Sufex said:


> Read the last page


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I would do Sannin side but I really can’t do links or make my posts look pretty due to my phone; also is there a word limit? @Sufex




I’m on the phone too bro I feel you


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> *I challenge : *[insert poster name or names] - This can be a 1v1, 2v2 or even 3v3!
> *Match:* [Insert match e.g. Orochimaru vs Jiraiya]
> *Location:
> Knowledge:
> ...




I challenge @Sufex for:

Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
Location: Hidden rain village 
Knowledge reputation:
Distance:20m 
Restrictions: None. 

Let’s settle this my friend.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kisame (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I challenge @Sufex for:
> 
> Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
> Location: Hidden rain village
> ...


I did oro vs Onoki a while ago and only lucked out because of my intro lol.


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Shark said:


> I did oro vs Onoki a while ago and only lucked out because of my intro lol.




Link?


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## Kisame (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> Link?


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 27, 2020)

Shazam said:


> As you know my position is 50/50



We know that's not true.


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## Shazam (May 27, 2020)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> We know that's not true.



We know that's your opinion.


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I challenge @Sufex for:
> 
> Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
> Location: Hidden rain village
> ...


I dont care nearly enough about onoki to debate for him. Try @Turrin  or @Mawt  maybe


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I dont care nearly enough about onoki to debate for him. Try @Turrin  or @Mawt  maybe




you never replied to my Orochimaru vs Ohnoki post I thought we could finish it


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> you never replied to my Orochimaru vs Ohnoki post I thought we could finish it


Link the thread


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Link the thread




no idea where it is, that's why we should do this






All I remember is posting some scans of Oro and you said you'd respond the next day and it never came


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> no idea where it is, that's why we should do this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I probably had some bitches to fuck or something sorry bruh


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I probably had some bitches to fuck or something sorry bruh




Fucked others so you didn't get fucked by me in the debate

smart move

always avoid a man with his large snake out


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

I challenge @Mawt  for:
Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
Location: Hidden rain village
Knowledge reputation
Distance:20m
Restrictions: None.

Oro already took down one old man, I'm ready to show he'll slap the other one


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## Turrin (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I dont care nearly enough about onoki to debate for him. Try @Turrin  or @Mawt  maybe


Eh I think it’s really straight forward as Onoki and I have debated this before, so I’m not super interested. If you want debate casually about it I’ll give my thoughts


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## Turrin (May 27, 2020)

Shark said:


> I did oro vs Onoki a while ago and only lucked out because of my intro lol.


Ninja’d me


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## Kisame (May 27, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Ninja’d me


Yup. My intro was much better than yours but ur rebuttal simply blew mine out of the water.

I think what helped me is that the intro was more important for a first impression to the judges


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (May 27, 2020)

Shazam said:


> We know that's your opinion.



Don't play coy, we know you think Jiraiya wins 100%.


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

I challenge @t0xeus  for a 1 v 1 debate

Winner gets @Miel


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## Mawt (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I challenge @Mawt  for:
> Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
> Location: Hidden rain village
> Knowledge reputation
> ...


Currently busy with school work. I'm down to do this in a couple of weeks though if you're still up for it by that time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Currently busy with school work. I'm down to do this in a couple of weeks though if you're still up for it by that time.




I’m down anytime.  Orochimaru still slams no matter the time


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I’m down anytime.  Orochimaru still slams no matter the time


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## Mawt (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I’m down anytime.  Orochimaru still slams no matter the time


Cool, I'll let you know whenever I'm ready.


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


>




You laugh but you refuse to debate me, that’s twice now


Big snake man too scary


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Cool, I'll let you know whenever I'm ready.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> You laugh but you refuse to debate me, that’s twice now
> 
> 
> Big snake man too scary


Make the thread pussy


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## Symmetry (May 27, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Make the thread pussy




done


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## Sufex (May 27, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> done


Link?


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## Turrin (May 27, 2020)

Shark said:


> Yup. My intro was much better than yours but ur rebuttal simply blew mine out of the water.
> 
> I think what helped me is that the intro was more important for a first impression to the judges


You just did a better job overall imo; I approached as who would actually win, and your approached as making the best argument

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (May 27, 2020)

By the by if people need a judge I will judge these things


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## Soul (May 28, 2020)

Turrin said:


> You just did a better job overall imo; I approached as who would actually win, and your approached as making the best argument



Pretty much this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LostSelf (May 29, 2020)

My apologies everyone who quoted me. I'd have done this gladly had I not been a little busy with work this week. I means a lot that many considered me neutral, and thanks to those who stood up, like AS.

Busy week ended, so I'll be here more often, in any case you guys need me or anything.


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## Hina uzumaki (May 30, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I challenge @t0xeus  for a 1 v 1 debate
> 
> Winner gets @Miel


Uhhhh
Is this shiiii still happening or not... 

@MaruUchiha This might suit you


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## MaruUchiha (May 30, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Uhhhh
> Is this shiiii still happening or not...
> 
> @MaruUchiha This might suit you


Quit being a homewrecker Hina


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## t0xeus (May 31, 2020)

@Soul what do you want to know about the judging criteria, Soul?

You just judge based on those categories I put into the template. 

Check the  and the judgements to see how it works.


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## The_Conqueror (May 31, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust if TDTS is busy why not pick another judge pretty sure man were interested


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## Shazam (May 31, 2020)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> Don't play coy, we know you think Jiraiya wins 100%.



I dont

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (May 31, 2020)

The_Conqueror said:


> @Ziggy Stardust if TDTS is busy why not pick another judge pretty sure man were interested



@ShinAkuma can take it


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## Shazam (May 31, 2020)

anyways after the Ziggy debate with Itachi ... I want to do a Jiraiya vs Bee (BM restricted) debate

Reactions: Like 1


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I dont


Sure.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> @ShinAkuma can take it



If you're stacking the jury, I'm getting Toexus


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> If you're stacking the jury, I'm getting Toexus



He's already got a job here, can't double duty


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 1, 2020)

I reckon he'll be fine with it. 

I let it slip by that you muscled in flaiming, perhaps a bad decision on my part...


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> I reckon he'll be fine with it.
> 
> I let it slip by that you muscled in flaiming, perhaps a bad decision on my part...



@Cherry was my pick in the first place. I'll be the one to replace if he can't judge.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 1, 2020)

Yes, you personally picked Veracity, cherry.  All fine and dandy seen as we were allowed to personally pick two judges. 

You got a third in with flaming, I never personally picked a third, but I think I will now.  @t0exus , you wanna help us judge?

Anyway shazzyg expect a post tomorrow, I'm busy stroking my cock today.


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Yes, you personally picked Veracity, cherry.  All fine and dandy seen as we were allowed to personally pick two judges.
> 
> You got a third in with flaming, I never personally picked a third, but I think I will now.  @t0exus , you wanna help us judge?
> 
> Anyway shazzyg expect a post tomorrow, I'm busy stroking my cock today.



Do you guys see what I have to deal with


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

does anyone want to replace @Ziggy Stardust with Itachi. It seems he is incapable to debate in a formal manner, he relies on NBD polls, memes and members like @Troyse22 to gas him up. 

If not, I'm going to have to call this a win for Jiraiya.


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## Troyse22 (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> does anyone want to replace @Ziggy Stardust with Itachi. It seems he is incapable to debate in a formal manner, he relies on NBD polls, memes and members like @Troyse22 to gas him up.
> 
> If not, I'm going to have to call this a win for Jiraiya.



Don't tag me to bait me ape

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Don't tag me to bait me ape



You mad, fish?


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## Illusory (Jun 1, 2020)

*Open Challenge*

Itachi vs Nagato, 10 meters, manga knowledge
Itachi vs Obito, 10 meters, manga knowledge
Itachi vs Pain, 10 meters, manga knowledge
Itachi vs Minato, 10 meters, manga knowledge
Pick any. Come at me, bruhs.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Edo Itachi vs Edo Nagato, manga knowledge.
> Itachi vs Minato, manga knowledge.
> 
> Come at me.



I like to see this. Thanks for putting your opinions on the line. It makes a difference 

@Munboy Dracule O'Brian would you take on the Nagato challenge

@Hussain you want the Minato?


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## blk (Jun 1, 2020)

Illusory said:


> *Challenge*
> 
> Edo Itachi vs Edo Nagato, 10 meters, manga knowledge.
> Itachi vs Minato, 10 meters, manga knowledge.
> Come at me, bruhs.



A strong case can be made for Itachi, in Itachi vs Minato (obviously has to do with Genjutsu) imo with the manga knowledge condition (that is essentially zero for Minato).

Edo Itachi vs Edo Nagato is kinda hopeless tho.


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## Trojan (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> @Hussain you want the Minato?


nah. 

Don't like those types of debates. Makes me feel obligated.. 
and I already posted my facts opinion regarding that match up anyway


----------



## Illusory (Jun 1, 2020)

blk said:


> A strong case can be made for Itachi, in Itachi vs Minato (obviously has to do with Genjutsu) imo with the manga knowledge condition (that is essentially zero for Minato).



It is a 10/10 with manga knowledge, but can be made in full knowledge situations as well given Minato has no real genjutsu defense, which is necessary when fighting Itachi (all of his opponents are elite dojutsu users, perfect junchuriki, or perfect Sages). Whereas Itachi has elite reflexes and perception, which is necessary when fighting Minato. Minato was unable to hurt/kill Bee or A4 after repeated fights (durability likely checks), and we saw Teen Bee predict/reflex counter FTG. Itachi's eyes, clones, etc. put him in a solid position, with v1 Susano'o likely being enough to wall for a huge amount of time in worst-case situations.



blk said:


> Edo Itachi vs Edo Nagato is kinda hopeless tho.



The only technique Nagato has that's proven to be effective is CT, which he got off when Itachi had no knowledge, and Itachi used Bee and Naruto to help counter _after_ it had built up a large amount of ultra-dense rock protecting the tiny black core. On the other hand, both the Totsuka and Amaterasu were proven to be effective against Nagato, and at a close distance, it'll come down to a clone feint and v4 Susano'o rush whereas Nagato's best bet is an early CT or CST, both of which take longer by feats.


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## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

Hussain said:


> nah.
> 
> Don't like those types of debates. Makes me feel obligated..
> and I already posted my facts opinion regarding that match up anyway



In that case @Illusory I'll debate Minato vs Itachi, I'll take Minato


----------



## Shazam (Jun 1, 2020)

@Soul Set us up. Minato vs Itachi

Reactions: Like 2


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## Troyse22 (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> You mad, fish?


----------



## Soul (Jun 1, 2020)

Shazam said:


> @Soul Set us up. Minato vs Itachi



No idea what you mean by that.


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## Sloan (Jun 1, 2020)

So how does this work?  Is Ziggy's second post going to be a rebuttal of Shazam's intro post?  Just wondering about the format.


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 1, 2020)

Sloan said:


> So how does this work?  Is Ziggy's second post going to be a rebuttal of Shazam's intro post?  Just wondering about the format.


Zig intro
Shaz intro​Zig rebuts intro
Shaz rebuts intro​Zig rebuts rebuttal
Shaz rebuts rebuttal​Zig conclusion
Shaz conclusion​
...is how it might be. Technically, it doesn't need to follow that order as no rule has been specified which dictates it must — Shazam, for example, could post his first rebuttal before Ziggy does. One caveat is, if memory serves, that Shazam wants the person who went first to go last too. Not sure how he plans to achieve that, much less why...


----------



## t0xeus (Jun 2, 2020)

@Ziggy Stardust @Shazam
Yeah I am down to judge your match if you need me to. 
I WILL remain impartial, and I can do both managing and judging, don't worry.


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## Shazam (Jun 2, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Ziggy Stardust @Shazam
> Yeah I am down to judge your match if you need me to.
> I WILL remain impartial, and I can do both managing and judging, don't worry.



Says the guy who has already liked @Ziggy Stardust post here (never did mine), and thinks Jiraiya is multiple tiers weaker than Itachi. 

I opt for @Hi no Ishi 

@t0xeus its nothing against you as a member, but as a judge for this when it has already started and @Cherry was my original judge pick, its only right that I get to replace and not the opposition. 

If that won't work, and I can replace my own judge that I picked, then we can just take off one side from Ziggy picks. And make it even that way once again


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jun 2, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Says the guy who has already liked @Ziggy Stardust post here (never did mine), and thinks Jiraiya is multiple tiers weaker than Itachi.
> 
> I opt for @Hi no Ishi
> 
> ...


I'm down! Just let me know what y'all need.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 2, 2020)

You got three choices, with Flaiming rain in the mix.

@t0exus can be my third.


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## Shazam (Jun 2, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> You got three choices, with Flaiming rain in the mix.
> 
> @t0exus can be my third.



You have 3

Soul, Mawt AS. 

Shark is leaning Itachi voter as it is. Replacing Cherry with Hi No is another pick similar to @Shark


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## Hi no Ishi (Jun 2, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Itachi vs Nagato, 10 meters, manga knowledge
> 
> Itachi vs Obito, 10 meters, manga knowledge



I'll take Nagato or Obito! 

I'll turn that "Come at me, Bruh!" To a "Don't taze me Bruh!"




*Spoiler*: __ 





JK let's just have a friendly match!


----------



## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 2, 2020)

Shazam said:


> You have 3
> 
> Soul, Mawt AS.
> 
> Shark is leaning Itachi voter as it is. Replacing Cherry with Hi No is another pick similar to @Shark



Dude, virtually everyone on the forum believes Itachi wins bar those firmly in Jiraiya's hand.

It's a niche stance now that only fan boys hold, at least on the forum anyway.

i picked shark and Mawt in order to be partial. Soul and AS were recommended judges and not by personal picks given I had never seen a single post of theirs in my life. 

I thought cherry was quite partial and was willing to let it slide that you muscled  in Flaiming Rain, now that Cherry's gone you're going for true sannin camp members, I'm getting T0x.


----------



## Shazam (Jun 2, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Dude, virtually everyone on the forum believes Itachi wins bar those firmly in Jiraiya's hand.
> 
> It's a niche stance now that only fan boys hold, at least on the forum anyway.
> 
> ...



How is @Hi no Ishi a Sannin camper? Wtf.. 

And I supported Flaming from literally the beginning, you was just giving me shit for wanting a mod in this. 

OT: Make your second post for the love of God.


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jun 2, 2020)

>Tired of Sannin threads and vocal about it.

> In the True Sannin Camp somehow...

.


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 2, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> >Tired of Sannin threads and vocal about it.
> 
> > In the True Sannin Camp somehow...
> 
> .



You're probably tired because people shit on them so often.


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Jun 2, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> You're probably tired because people shit on them so often.


More like bored with y'all having an obsession with them lol. 

This shouldn't be the Sannin Dome when there are so many great characters to talk about.


----------



## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 3, 2020)

Shazam said:


> I like to see this. Thanks for putting your opinions on the line. It makes a difference
> 
> @Munboy Dracule O'Brian would you take on the Nagato challenge
> 
> @Hussain you want the Minato?



I'm probably not active as I used to be to give it the attention the other debater would, tbh


----------



## Santoryu (Jun 3, 2020)

Since @Turrin wanted it....

*Conditions:*

Living WA 3TS Kakashi vs Zabuza and Asuma
Konoha and IC
25 M
2 posts each: one opening and one rebuttal
500 words max for each post
Judges: Is 5 judges okay?
I have some names in mind who I think can remain balanced to a high degree:
@Soul
@Atlantic Storm
@Mawt
@Reddan
@Sufex

*Win condition:
Santoryu must convince the judges that Kakashi wins
Turrin must convince the judges that Zabuza and Asuma win
*
@t0xeus
if he agrees can you make the thread please?
also, let's set a timeframe, so it concludes quickly

Reactions: Like 5


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## Kisame (Jun 3, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Since @Turrin wanted it....
> 
> *Conditions:*
> 
> ...


Why don't you guys increase the word limit? I think it's better that way as you're more relaxed and can take your time detailing things.

Also I don't mind being a judge, of course only if you guys accept that.


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Shark said:


> Why don't you guys increase the word limit? I think it's better that way as you're more relaxed and can take your time detailing things.
> 
> Also I don't mind being a judge, of course only if you guys accept that.



Wouldn't mind not reading walls of texts for a change.
Efficiency is extremely underrated in the BD as of late.


----------



## ~Kakashi~ (Jun 4, 2020)

Giving Zabuza a teammate who doesn't know how to fight in the mist?

lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Shark said:


> Why don't you guys increase the word limit? I think it's better that way as you're more relaxed and can take your time detailing things.
> 
> Also I don't mind being a judge, of course only if you guys accept that.



Read what Soul said.

We've spent enough time on this forum. Further, if it's shorter, it's more likely to finish. And it's also more fun

Only way I'd accept you as a judge is if 4 of the others I listed agreed to be judges. You're openly incredibly anti-kakashi with your scaling compared to most the forum. And your ties to Lewdman does not help either 



~Kakashi~ said:


> Giving Zabuza a teammate who doesn't know how to fight in the mist?
> 
> lol




That's what he agreed to lol


----------



## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Since @Turrin wanted it....
> 
> *Conditions:*
> 
> ...



@Turrin

So do you accept these judges?


----------



## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Turrin
> 
> So do you accept these judges?


Nope

Remove Soul and Reddan they are both bias against me

Also when are we doing this? I thought you had exams. We should set a start date and deadline

I would like to request @Shark to be a judge, you are getting plenty of people that skew Kakashi/Sharingan with Mawt/Sufex. Not saying they aren’t acceptable as I think they will maintain their integrity  but will believe shark will as well


----------



## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

~Kakashi~ said:


> Giving Zabuza a teammate who doesn't know how to fight in the mist?
> 
> lol


He complained to me about using Edo Zabuza until I finally agreed; even though it was Edo Zabuza whose placement he had a problem with on my rankings anyway lol


----------



## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> He complained to me about using Edo Zabuza until I finally agreed; even though it was Edo Zabuza whose placement he had a problem with on my rankings anyway lol




Dishonesty before the debate even begins

You know very well you said there's not much of a difference between 3TS Kakashi and Zabuza. So I gave you the advantage of another elite jounin on your team which you accepted.

The fundamental contention is not about Edo zombies. It never has been.
The fundamental point is your reclutance to accept a significant gap between Zabuza and 3TS Kakashi. Hence the debate.


----------



## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Nope
> 
> Remove Soul and Reddan they are both bias against me
> 
> ...




If not those 2, who would you suggest?

I finished most my work earlier than anticipated


----------



## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Dishonesty before the debate even begins
> 
> You know very well you said there's not much of a difference between 3TS Kakashi and Zabuza. So I gave you the advantage of another elite jounin on your team which you accepted.
> 
> ...


No I said WA 3T Kakashi > P1 Kakashi > Wave Kakashi > Zabuza; but there isn’t a huge difference between those Kakashi, and that Edo Buffs make Zabuza debatably as dangerous as WA 3T Kakashi, since he is an extremely tough to take down, due to Edo Buffs, Top Jonin that can effect the entire battlefield with Demonic Mist, which he basically can keep going for hours due to Edo Buffs. 

You decided that ranking is totally dependent on who can win 1v1, but then then realized Kakashi literally can’t beat Edo Zabuza 1v1 due to Edo Buffs, and complained to me about how unfair Eod buffs were; until I just threw up my hands and said whatever and took the match.  Just to set the record straight.

But yeah I don’t think Kakashi should be that far above Zabuza and Asuma that this isn’t a fair match.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> If not those 2, who would you suggest?
> 
> I finished most my work earlier than anticipated


I would suggest @Shark, and who else usually judges these things


----------



## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> No I said WA 3T Kakashi > P1 Kakashi > Wave Kakashi > Zabuza; but there isn’t a huge difference between those Kakashi, and that Edo Buffs make Zabuza debatably as dangerous as WA 3T Kakashi, since he is an extremely tough to take down, due to Edo Buffs, Top Jonin that can effect the entire battlefield with Demonic Mist, which he basically can keep going for hours due to Edo Buffs.
> 
> You decided that ranking is totally dependent on who can win 1v1, but then then realized Kakashi literally can’t beat Edo Zabuza 1v1 due to Edo Buffs, and complained to me about how unfair Eod buffs were; until I just threw up my hands and said whatever and took the match.  Just to set the record straight.



I never accepted an Edo match so this is superfluous. 

My fundamental observation stands which you have just regurgitated. Further, you clearly correlated it to a 1 vs 1 match otherwise you never would have accepted. 



Turrin said:


> But yeah I don’t think Kakashi should be that far above Zabuza and Asuma that this isn’t a fair match.



Then cut the chit chat 
Stop complaining about a match you agreed to 


Turrin said:


> I would suggest @Shark, and who else usually judges these things



Soul usually does but you don't agree


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

So you agree to

Sufex, mawt, and AS?
If you propose shark I propose ms
Deal?


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> I never accepted an Edo match so this is superfluous.
> 
> My fundamental observation stands which you have just regurgitated. Further, you clearly correlated it to a 1 vs 1 match otherwise you never would have accepted.
> 
> ...


I accepted because I wanted to show you that your wrong, not because I correlate Rankings to only 1v1 matches. Im not complaining ether just letting others know how this began lol.

Yeah what about @trocollo or @Isaiah13000


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> So you agree to
> 
> Sufex, mawt, and AS?
> If you propose shark I propose ms
> Deal?


No I’ll agree to Sufex + Mawt + Atlantic + Shark; and you should be happy about that


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

I agree to troc


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

As for your time frame 
How's 2 days for each post?


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> I agree to troc


Okay @trocollo + Shark. If your getting Sufex and Mawt in there (and I’m not sure which why Atlantic sways) I should get @Shark


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> As for your time frame
> How's 2 days for each post?


Weekend is usually tough for me. We can do both posts done by Monday Night though


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Okay @trocollo + Shark. If your getting Sufex and Mawt in there (and I’m not sure which why Atlantic sways) I should get @Shark



I agree to the 5 judges assuming they all accept 




Turrin said:


> Weekend is usually tough for me. We can do both posts done by Monday Night though



By Monday night? Fine by me


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

@t0xeus

Make the thread please once judges confirm


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> I agree to the 5 judges assuming they all accept
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay then will try to get my first post out today or tomorrow


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## trocollo (Jun 4, 2020)

I'm down to it, but on the judging criteria, this time it's a "I'm gonna convince you x wins" and not "judge how well written is my argument", right?
As: We'll still judge the argument, but we have to focalize more on "how valid is the proof that the poster provided for X beating Y", rather than "how well contructed the post is"
(Just wanted to be in the clear for the criteria, since this time they're different)


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I'm down to it, but on the judging criteria, this time it's a "I'm gonna convince you x wins" and not "judge how well written is my argument", right?



Yes.
Although naturally, if the argument is well written, it may convince you that X wins.


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## Grinningfox (Jun 4, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I'm down to it, but on the judging criteria, this time it's a "I'm gonna convince you x wins" and not "judge how well written is my argument", right?
> As: We'll still judge the argument, but we have to focalize more on "how valid is the proof that the poster provided for X beating Y", rather than "how well contructed the post is"
> (Just wanted to be in the clear for the criteria, since this time they're different)


I’ll take you on

I need to shake off some rust anyway


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## trocollo (Jun 4, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> I’ll take you on
> 
> I need to shake off some rust anyway


Thanks, but my reply was on being a judge; on an actual match, I'd actually prefer a normal debate where we try to agree to each other, I might be interested in a long and formal debate in months like august or december, but now not quite sorry


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## t0xeus (Jun 4, 2020)

@Santoryu Sure are these the criteria you agree on? @Turrin

*Conditions:*

Living WA 3TS Kakashi vs Zabuza and Asuma
Konoha and IC
25 M
2 posts each: one opening and one rebuttal
500 words max for each post
Judges: To be decided


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Santoryu Sure are these the criteria you agree on? @Turrin
> 
> *Conditions:*
> 
> ...


Yes


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Remove Soul and Reddan they are both bias against me



I will never be biased for or against anyone. Your style of debating isn't my cup of tea though, so I'll give you that much. Feats are king for me.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> I will never be biased for or against anyone. Your style of debating isn't my cup of tea though, so I'll give you that much. Feats are king for me.


You mean Kakashi -Feats right


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> You mean Kakashi -Feats right



You are possibly the person that underestimates Kakashi the most in the battledome. I definitely understand you not wanting me to judge whether Kakashi wins or loses based on your arguments.
Just letting you know I am not biased against you, we just interpret the manga differently and value feats/portrayal differently as well.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> You are possibly the person that underestimates Kakashi the most in the battledome. I definitely understand you not wanting me to judge whether Kakashi wins or loses based on your arguments.
> Just letting you know I am not biased against you, we just interpret the manga differently and value feats/portrayal differently as well.


Soul I value Feats and Portrayal equally; I value accomplishments above both. 

And the rest I just don’t believe you on


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Soul I value Feats and Portrayal equally; I value accomplishments above both.



Exactly.
I will never view portrayal equally to what actually happened.



> And the rest I just don’t believe you on



Wouldn't expect you to.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> Exactly.
> I will never view portrayal equally to what actually happened.
> 
> 
> ...


Feats are basically how we subjectively interpret certain Jutsu and Maneuvers a character performed. 

Portrayal is how we subjectively interpret statements and things like Stats.

Both actually happened.

Accomplishments are king though as that’s what a character achieved such as Mu beating Onoki for example.


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Feats are basically how we subjectively interpret certain Jutsu and Maneuvers a character performed.
> 
> Portrayal is how we subjectively interpret statements and things like Stats.
> 
> ...



I disagree with that, which is the point.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> I disagree with that, which is the point.


What part lol


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> What part lol



Portrayal happened, sure, but we don't know how. Temari defeated Shikamaru in the Chunnin Exam, but she was outclassed. How it happened matters, and portrayal/accomplishments don't give the whole story.
Feats are more significant for me for that reason.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> Portrayal happened, sure, but we don't know how. Temari defeated Shikamaru in the Chunnin Exam, but she was outclassed. How it happened matters, and portrayal/accomplishments don't give the whole story.
> Feats are more significant for me for that reason.


Not all portrayal is hey X happens off panel though; many times it’s also character statements, such as one character directly saying they are inferior or someone is a bigger threat, etc..


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## Ziggy Stardust (Jun 4, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> More like bored with y'all having an obsession with them lol.
> 
> This shouldn't be the Sannin Dome when there are so many great characters to talk about.



Just shut the hell up, you aint fooling no one you god damned wanker. 

@Shazam I'd honestly rather you picked turrin than this purple lettered dolt.


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Santoryu Sure are these the criteria you agree on? @Turrin
> 
> *Conditions:*
> 
> ...




yup

dont make the criteria to daunting for the judges 
just remember that i have to convince the judges that kakashi wins
and obviously turrin the other way


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## Shazam (Jun 4, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Just shut the hell up, you aint fooling no one you god damned wanker.
> 
> @Shazam I'd honestly rather you picked turrin than this purple lettered dolt.



Either are fine. But @Hi no Ishi is well liked by majority


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## Hi no Ishi (Jun 4, 2020)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Just shut the hell up, you aint fooling no one you god damned wanker.
> 
> @Shazam I'd honestly rather you picked turrin than this purple lettered dolt.


Adorable. 

I'm sorry your Sannin obsession has driven you so mad. Good luck.


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## Soul (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Not all portrayal is hey X happens off panel though; many times it’s also character statements, such as one character directly saying they are inferior or someone is a bigger threat, etc..



Yup, which can be misleading as well.
Jiraiya isn't beating both Itachi and Kisame under normal circumstances.


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

Soul said:


> Yup, which can be misleading as well.
> Jiraiya isn't beating both Itachi and Kisame under normal circumstances.


No one said he was in the manga though lol


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## t0xeus (Jun 4, 2020)

@trocollo keep the questions to the judging criteria here so we don't flood the thread for the debate

Anyways it's just inspiration/template as the title dictates. You can give your own style of judgement as long as both contestants are overall happy with it (aside from the verdict kek).


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## trocollo (Jun 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @trocollo keep the questions to the judging criteria here so we don't flood the thread for the debate
> 
> Anyways it's just inspiration/template as the title dictates. You can give your own style of judgement as long as both contestants are overall happy with it (aside from the verdict kek).


Ah ok lol
(And sorry about flooding the thread)


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Ah ok lol
> (And sorry about flooding the thread)


To further extrapolate on this creativity is usually the strategy’s proposed or uniqueness of argument; at least that’s how we used to evaluate it in the KC


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## trocollo (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> To further extrapolate on this creativity is usually the strategy’s proposed or uniqueness of argument; at least that’s how we used to evaluate it in the KC


I see, thanks, altrough as cool as original points and creativity in general are, I'd give more weight to the strenght of the argument/logic who aims at explaining why X should beat Y


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## Turrin (Jun 4, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I see, thanks, altrough as cool as original points and creativity in general are, I'd give more weight to the strenght of the argument/logic who aims at explaining why X should beat Y


That’s totally fair; I’m cool ether way you evaluate.


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## Santoryu (Jun 4, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I see, thanks, altrough as cool as original points and creativity in general are, I'd give more weight to the strenght of the argument/logic who aims at explaining why X should beat Y



yeah thats fair
i imagine most people think the same


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## trocollo (Jun 4, 2020)

Turrin said:


> That’s totally fair; I’m cool ether way you evaluate.





Santoryu said:


> yeah thats fair
> i imagine most people think the same


Thanks


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## Santoryu (Jun 5, 2020)

@Atlantic Storm
@Mawt
@Shark

our match is done
so whenever you guys are ready (i know AS is busy atm)

didnt tag troc because he's already aware

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Jun 5, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @Atlantic Storm
> @Mawt
> @Shark
> 
> ...


This fast?


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## Santoryu (Jun 5, 2020)

Shark said:


> This fast?



meanwhile, shazam vs ziggy:


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## Atlantic Storm (Jun 5, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> meanwhile, shazam vs ziggy:


speed of mercury indeed...


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## ~Kakashi~ (Jun 5, 2020)

That was probably the most disappointing aspect of trying to run those debate tournaments.

We've been debating with these same characters for years(decade+ for a lot of us), and it takes you that long to type up a post about them/the matchup? Or some who don't even make the post at all?

Obviously in some cases real life issues come in to play which is understandable, but otherwise it just leaves you sitting there like


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 7, 2020)

*I challenge :* @Hussain @Isaiah13000 @ThirdRidoku @Hina uzumaki @ShinAkuma @Grinningfox @Veracity @Tri
*Match:* WA Kakashi vs Hokage Minato
*Location:* Ay and Bee vs Minato
*Knowledge:* Reputation
*Distance:* 20 Metres
*Mindset:* IC + KI
*Restrictions:* None (obviously no prep)

*Win Condition:* It's simple. Convince at least 4 out of 7 judges who would win in a fight under those stipulations.
Judging criteria as set out in the Challenger Arena.

So who would be up for it?


*Spoiler*: _judges_ 




*For Judges, I Nominate:* Soul, Atlantic Storm, ~Kakashi~, LostSelf, MShadows, blk, t0xeus
*Backup judges:* Kai, Sufex, Santoryu, Braiyan, DaVizWiz, Mawt, Blu-ray

Reactions: Like 2


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## Grinningfox (Jun 7, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge :* @Hussain @Isaiah13000 @ThirdRidoku @Hina uzumaki @ShinAkuma @Grinningfox @Veracity @Tri
> *Match:* WA Kakashi vs Hokage Minato
> *Location:* Ay and Bee vs Minato
> *Knowledge:* Reputation
> ...


Answer this and I’ll consider it


Why?


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 7, 2020)

Grinningfox said:


> Answer this and I’ll consider it
> 
> 
> Why?


Some people (Masters fans and neutral posters), who I won't name, believe that Minato can 50/50 or outright low diff WA Kakashi. I do not believe that, however, I haven't actually studied Minato extensively. So this is both a learning opportunity and a chance to showcase, formally, why I think Kakashi will decisively win here. 

The people I tagged, as far as I'm aware, are Minato supporters / experts, so they are, naturally, the ones best suited for the challenge.


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## Grinningfox (Jun 7, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Some people (Masters fans and neutral posters), who I won't name, believe that Minato can 50/50 or outright low diff WA Kakashi. I do not believe that, however, I haven't actually studied Minato extensively. So this is both a learning opportunity and a chance to showcase, formally, why I think Kakashi will decisively win here.
> 
> The people I tagged, as far as I'm aware, are Minato supporters / experts, so they are, naturally, the ones best suited for the challenge.


Okay

I will consider it


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## Troyse22 (Jun 8, 2020)

@ARGUS 

Muu vs Kisame

Reactions: Like 1


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## ARGUS (Jun 8, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> @ARGUS
> 
> Muu vs Kisame


I believe muu wins 
But I’m not that sure yet


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## Troyse22 (Jun 8, 2020)

ARGUS said:


> I believe muu wins
> But I’m not that sure yet



Well I was challenging you to a debate about it to settle it


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## Kisame (Jun 11, 2020)

Anyone up for a debate?


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 11, 2020)

Shark said:


> Anyone up for a debate?


I am.

WA Kakashi vs PA Jiraiya.
20 m, IC, P1 reputation, Kisame vs Team Gai location

1000 words (strict limit). 2 posts. 2 days for opening, 2 days for rebuttal.
7 judges, do you agree with Soul, t0xeus, trocollo, Atlantic Storm, ~Kakashi~, FlamingRain, Hina uzumaki?
Win Condition: Convince at least 4 / 7 judges who wins more times than not.
Let me know if this works for you and then we can proceed to have it set up once everything's been finalised.


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## trocollo (Jun 11, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> 7 judges, do you agree with Soul, t0xeus, trocollo, Atlantic Storm, ~Kakashi~, FlamingRain, Hina uzumaki?


I'm very happy to be chosen as a judge, but I gotta decline, I belive I'll not be able to dedicate to it the right attention since it's pretty time consuming (realized it with the precedent debate lol); so basically same reason as why I'm postponing formal debates to more laid back months 
(Plus I'm already into essay reading thanks to the discussion with 3rdrikudo )
Anyway, good luck for the debate, seems interesting so I'll follow it


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## Kisame (Jun 11, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I am.
> 
> WA Kakashi vs PA Jiraiya.
> 20 m, IC, P1 reputation, Kisame vs Team Gai location
> ...


*Hebi Sasuke* vs Tsunade 
*Kakashi* vs Deidara 
*Gai* vs A4

Is what I was thinking (me debating for the bold)


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 11, 2020)

Shark said:


> *Hebi Sasuke* vs Tsunade
> *Kakashi* vs Deidara
> *Gai* vs A4
> 
> Is what I was thinking (me debating for the bold)


Going for the easy side I see...


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## Ayala (Jun 13, 2020)

Shark said:


> *Hebi Sasuke* vs Tsunade
> *Kakashi* vs Deidara
> *Gai* vs A4
> 
> Is what I was thinking (me debating for the bold)



You down to debate me in the last one? I'll debate for A4 then, for my first formal debate this should be a good test, to see how i fare.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kisame (Jun 13, 2020)

Ayala said:


> You down to debate me in the last one? I'll debate for A4 then, for my first formal debate this should be a good test, to see how i fare.


Yeah I'm down.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ayala (Jun 13, 2020)

That's great, thanks Shark. Im sure you'll be a great match. Now all that remains is to have the judges chosen, and the time of the match. 

Also, can anyone advise me a wordcounter, or something that helps me with that problem?


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## PocketGod (Jun 13, 2020)

Ayala said:


> That's great, thanks Shark. Im sure you'll be a great match. Now all that remains is to have the judges chosen, and the time of the match.
> 
> Also, can anyone advise me a wordcounter, or something that helps me with that problem?



I usually use this , it does the trick well enough.

Good luck, dude.

Good luck to you too, @Shark .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Jun 13, 2020)

Ayala said:


> That's great, thanks Shark. Im sure you'll be a great match. Now all that remains is to have the judges chosen, and the time of the match.
> 
> Also, can anyone advise me a wordcounter, or something that helps me with that problem?


Wordcounter(dot)net 

Which judges are cool with you?


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## Kisame (Jun 13, 2020)

Ninja'd


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## Ayala (Jun 13, 2020)

PocketGod said:


> I usually use this , it does the trick well enough.
> 
> Good luck, dude.
> 
> Good luck to you too, @Shark .



Thanks G



Shark said:


> Wordcounter(dot)net
> 
> Which judges are cool with you?



We can have @t0xeus choose them, if he's willing to. I'm not sure though, do you have any in mind? 

For one of them, i would propose @trocollo , he's very smart and tries his best to be objective.


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## jesusus (Jun 13, 2020)

Ayala said:


> That's great, thanks Shark. Im sure you'll be a great match. Now all that remains is to have the judges chosen, and the time of the match.
> 
> Also, can anyone advise me a wordcounter, or something that helps me with that problem?


You can make the post on Word, it will show you a word counter

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Jun 13, 2020)

Ayala said:


> Thanks G
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes Trocollo is fine and agree with letting t0xeus pick some judges.

If possible I want @mgnt as a judge


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## jesusus (Jun 13, 2020)

@mgnt that avatar


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## Mawt (Jun 13, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
> Location: Hidden rain village
> Knowledge reputation
> Distance:20m
> Restrictions: None.


Who would you like for judges?


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## trocollo (Jun 14, 2020)

Ayala said:


> For one of them, i would propose @trocollo , he's very smart and tries his best to be objective.


:blu

@Ayala @Shark I really aprreciate being chosen as a judge but I'm pretty fucked up with time at the moment so I'll have to decline (as I did with the other invites), well, unless you're cool with a response posted after days that the debate ended

Best of luck to the both of you tho

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Jun 14, 2020)

Ayala said:


> Thanks G
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, sure I'll ask around. What's the matchup?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (Jun 14, 2020)

trocollo said:


> :blu
> 
> @Ayala @Shark I really aprreciate being chosen as a judge but I'm pretty fucked up with time at the moment so I'll have to decline (as I did with the other invites), well, unless you're cool with a response posted after days that the debate ended
> 
> Best of luck to the both of you tho



I think this is ok too (at least for me it is), it's not like we're short on time or anything. I could wait some days for the judging, no problem.



t0xeus said:


> Yeah, sure I'll ask around. What's the matchup?



It's A4 vs Gai

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Jun 14, 2020)

Ayala said:


> I think this is ok too (at least for me it is), it's not like we're short on time or anything. I could wait some days for the judging, no problem.


Nice, as long as also Shark is ok with that I'm in


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## Sufex (Jun 14, 2020)

I may be willing to judge, whats the criteria?


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## Symmetry (Jun 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Who would you like for judges?




I don’t care who really, no preference from me. I trust you won’t stack the judges in your favour or anything, so if you have preferences we’ll go with that


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## Mawt (Jun 15, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> I don’t care who really, no preference from me. I trust you won’t stack the judges in your favour or anything, so if you have preferences we’ll go with that


Sweet. I'm thinking of getting 5 judges for the matchup. 

@Shark 
@FlamingRain 
@Mad Scientist 
@blk 

And the judge of the Judges... @Santoryu 

@t0xeus if all the judges comply, can you schedule the matchup for Saturday?


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Sweet. I'm thinking of getting 5 judges for the matchup.
> 
> @Shark
> @FlamingRain
> ...


I'd be up for that.


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## Kisame (Jun 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Sweet. I'm thinking of getting 5 judges for the matchup.
> 
> @Shark
> @FlamingRain
> ...


I don't mind, but me and @Ayala are supposed to be having our own match so I guess it depends when that one is supposed to kick off.

Also I was thinking you could be a judge in our match, and you have your own match going on?


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## Ayala (Jun 15, 2020)

PocketGod said:


> I usually use this



Ok i didn't notice it the first time, but what is that supposed to be?


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## Mawt (Jun 15, 2020)

Shark said:


> I don't mind, but me and @Ayala are supposed to be having our own match so I guess it depends when that one is supposed to kick off.
> 
> Also I was thinking you could be a judge in our match, and you have your own match going on?


Sure thing. I have a bunch of free time now, so why not


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## Ayala (Jun 15, 2020)

@Shark whenever you're ready, if the judges are not ready yet, we could start and have them chosen after. 

Hopefully @jesusus will forgive me for making Gai lose, my shoes are tough to fill at the moment


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## blk (Jun 16, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Sweet. I'm thinking of getting 5 judges for the matchup.
> 
> @Shark
> @FlamingRain
> ...



I'm down for it.


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## t0xeus (Jun 16, 2020)

Ayala and Shark 
A4 vs Gai

Would any of you be interested in judging this? 
@Illusory @blk @SakuraLover16 @BlackHeartedImp @DaVizWiz @ThomasTheCat


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jun 16, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Ayala and Shark
> A4 vs Gai
> 
> Would any of you be interested in judging this?
> @Illusory @blk @SakuraLover16 @BlackHeartedImp @DaVizWiz @ThomasTheCat


I'm willing, but I'd have to look at some prior matches to learn proper "judge etiquette." I'm too used to shitposting and being lewd around here.


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## Hina uzumaki (Jun 16, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> I'm too used to shitposting and being lewd around here.


Not exactly suprised here


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## Kisame (Jun 16, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> I'm willing, but I'd have to look at some prior matches to learn proper "judge etiquette." I'm too used to shitposting and being lewd around here.


It's pretty easy just compare the two arguments and which one was more convincing/feasible.  How neat the judgement is or whatnot isn't really all that important imo.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jun 16, 2020)

Shark said:


> It's pretty easy just compare the two arguments and which one was more convincing/feasible.  How neat the judgement is or whatnot isn't really all that important imo.


I'll give it a try then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ~Kakashi~ (Jun 17, 2020)

No one should be turned away from judging over etiquette. My judgements have been accepted in matches before and I'm the biggest dumb ass on the forum. Anyone can do it.


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## Santoryu (Jun 17, 2020)

Etiquette is not the deciding factor indeed.


But as a general guideline, if a posters arguments hit 1000 words, a 100 word verdict by the judge would be a decent aim.
Do remember, as judges, your job is not to write a mini essay (although you can do that), it's to provide a verdict about those essays. *Brevity is the soul of wit. *


A further point I have to emphasise: in most matches, you're ultimately deciding if the poster's argument has convinced you that X character wins. Not whose argument was more creative or w/e

For example, if Itachi vs Ino was put on the table; the chances of someone convincing me of an Ino win is incredibly slim.
The Ino argument would have to be remarkable. And the Itachi argument would have to be a disaster. And even then, it might not be enough to convince me that Ino wins. This is partially why I would not want to judge such a heavily skewed match because it can realistically only go one way.

As judges, you don't discard your knowledge of the manga. You want to be as objective as possible, but it's impossible to discard your subjective view of the manga.


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## Santoryu (Jun 17, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Sweet. I'm thinking of getting 5 judges for the matchup.
> 
> @Shark
> @FlamingRain
> ...




i'll do it depending on the date
what characters?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jun 17, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> Etiquette is not the deciding factor indeed.
> 
> 
> But as a general guideline, if a posters arguments hit 1000 words, a 100 word verdict by the judge would be a decent aim.
> ...


Weird seeing you being all zen and stuff


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## Mawt (Jun 17, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> i'll do it depending on the date
> what characters?


The debate begins on Saturday, so long as all judges cosign.

Characters are Orochimaru with P1 ET (@Orochimaru op) vs Ohnoki (me)


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## Santoryu (Jun 17, 2020)

Mawt said:


> The debate begins on Saturday, so long as all judges cosign.
> 
> Characters are Orochimaru with P1 ET (@Orochimaru op) vs Ohnoki (me)



Sounds good

Reactions: Like 1


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## dergeist (Jun 17, 2020)

I came, I saw and I solod.


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## blk (Jun 17, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Ayala and Shark
> A4 vs Gai
> 
> Would any of you be interested in judging this?
> @Illusory @blk @SakuraLover16 @BlackHeartedImp @DaVizWiz @ThomasTheCat



Thanks for the mention but i already judge @Mawt vs @Orochimaru op, so i'll focus on that one


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## Symmetry (Jun 20, 2020)

@Mawt we have a battle, no?


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## Mawt (Jun 21, 2020)

@Turrin said that he can serve as a judge.

@Mad Scientist @FlamingRain If we can have one of you serve as a judge, it'd be appreciated.

@t0xeus Post the thread as soon as either Mad Scientist or FlamingRain confirms that they can judge.

Here are the stipulations:

Orochimaru with P1 Edos vs Ohnoki
Location: Hidden rain village
Knowledge reputation
Distance:20m
Restrictions: None.
Judges: @Shark @blk @Santoryu @Turrin (last judge is either Mad Scientist or FlamingRain)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 21, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @Turrin said that he can serve as a judge.
> 
> @Mad Scientist @FlamingRain If we can have one of you serve as a judge, it'd be appreciated.
> 
> ...


I would personally recommend @Soul as a judge. Otherwise, I can do it. However, I would only judge if @Orochimaru op is cool with that.


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## Symmetry (Jun 21, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I would personally recommend @Soul as a judge. Otherwise, I can do it. However, I would only judge if @Orochimaru op is cool with that.




Ofc I’m cool with it!


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 21, 2020)

Orochimaru op said:


> Ofc I’m cool with it!


Sounds great. @t0xeus, let's boot this up

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Jun 21, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Sounds great. @t0xeus, let's boot this up



Just let me know if you will actually post. Wouldn't want to wait for another month and change for a post.


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## Hayumi (Jun 22, 2020)

Love this revival of the old NBD tbh. I’m a bit late to saying this but @t0xeus great thread! Love as always. If you ever find yourself short on judges feel free to hit me up


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## Munboy Dracule O'Brian (Jun 25, 2020)

So did Ziggy beat Shazam?


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 25, 2020)

Munboy Dracule O'Brian said:


> So did Ziggy beat Shazam?


Ziggy is "winning", but officially, no one has yet won since the match had never officially ended (no time limit agreed, dupes circumvent Ziggy posting, no one officially renounced their participation). It's been a terribly disappointing match so far. Ziggy is at fault for getting banned and memeing around, but Shazam is also at fault for not following through on his rebuttal that he said to expect by the 4th. If it ever resumes, it's going to take time for any competent judge to write a competent evaluation after looking at 8 short essays, to say nothing of how long those essays will take given what we've been subjected to.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Thenewguysnm1 (Jun 26, 2020)

I challenge any Tsunadae fan to rep her vs Deidara 
He stomps

Reactions: Like 1


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## Santoryu (Jun 26, 2020)

Thenewguysnm1 said:


> I challenge any Tsunadae fan to rep her vs Deidara
> He stomps



@miel
@Lyren 
@Femme


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## Lyren (Jun 26, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @miel
> @Lyren
> @Femme


Seeing how he couldnt make any argument in the other thread but trolled and kept changing the stipulations instead so Deidara can win, i'm not interested sorry  I dont have that much time either to begin with 

Maybe Speedy or Matto etc would want tho idk


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## Sufex (Jun 26, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @miel
> @Lyren
> @Femme


You forgot

@SakuraLover16 @Speedyamell @Godaime Tsunade @FlamingRain @BringerOfChaos


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## Santoryu (Jun 26, 2020)

Sufex said:


> You forgot
> 
> @SakuraLover16 @Speedyamell @Godaime Tsunade @FlamingRain @BringerOfChaos



i also forgot @t0xeus


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## Kisame (Jun 26, 2020)

Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
*Location:* Gokage vs Madara
*Distance:* 20 meters
*Knowledge:* manga
*Mindset:* IC
*Restrictions:* 8th gate

2 posts each; one introduction and rebuttal of the opposing introduction.

*Word count:* 1000-2000 words per post

*Judges:*
@trocollo 
@Mawt now that his match is over
@Illusory
@blk
@BlackHeartedImp 

@Ayala is this good? Any changes you wanna propose or judges?

Reactions: Like 5


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## t0xeus (Jun 26, 2020)

Ayala's debut

Reactions: Like 5


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jun 26, 2020)

Shark said:


> Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
> *Location:* Gokage vs Madara
> *Distance:* 20 meters
> *Knowledge:* manga
> ...


First judging gig.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Ayala (Jun 26, 2020)

Shark said:


> Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
> *Location:* Gokage vs Madara
> *Distance:* 20 meters
> *Knowledge:* manga
> ...



I thought this match was lost forever 

Anyways, yeah, im mostly cool, but for the judges, i'd like to ask @Illusory first if he thinks this match is balanced.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (Jun 26, 2020)

@FlamingRain  ,  @t0xeus  ,  @Sufex 

Any of you guys down to judge this? I believe you guys see this as a balanced match overall, so if any of you has some time to spare, it'd be great


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## Sufex (Jun 26, 2020)

Ayala said:


> @FlamingRain  ,  @t0xeus  ,  @Sufex
> 
> Any of you guys down to judge this? I believe you guys see this as a balanced match overall, so if any of you has some time to spare, it'd be great


Yeah sure why  not

Reactions: Like 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Jun 26, 2020)

I’m biased pick me! XD


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## Ayala (Jun 26, 2020)

Great we're set up then @Shark 

We just have to decide the day

Reactions: Like 1


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## SakuraLover16 (Jun 26, 2020)

I was just ignored


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## trocollo (Jun 26, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I was just ignored


I'll let you judge my match in august if you're online at that time and if anyone else is online to accept it


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## Ayala (Jun 26, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> I was just ignored



Thought it was a joke and go... You wanna judge ?


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## Femme (Jun 26, 2020)

Santoryu said:


> @miel
> @Lyren
> @Femme


Tsuandes chakra forcefully blast through her body to activate her cells to produce instantaneous regeneration...how in the fuck aren’t Diederas little nano bombs getting destroyed and flushed


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## SakuraLover16 (Jun 26, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I'll let you judge my match in august if you're online at that time and if anyone else is online to accept it


Yohoho


Ayala said:


> Thought it was a joke and go... You wanna judge ?


It was lol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Jun 27, 2020)

Ayala said:


> Great we're set up then @Shark
> 
> We just have to decide the day


Asap, if you're cool with that. @t0xeus can set up the thread:

Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
*Location:* Gokage vs Madara
*Distance:* 20 meters
*Knowledge:* manga
*Mindset:* IC
*Restrictions:* 8th gate

*Number of posts:* 2 posts each; one introduction and one rebuttal of the opposing introduction.

*Word count:* 1000-2000 words per post

*Judges:*
@trocollo
@Mawt
@Sufex
@blk
@BlackHeartedImp

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Jun 27, 2020)

Shark said:


> Asap, if you're cool with that. @t0xeus can set up the thread:
> 
> Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
> *Location:* Gokage vs Madara
> ...


Btw are the judging criteria the standard ones or a different version of them (like for example in the Sant vs Turrin match)?

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Jun 27, 2020)

Shark said:


> Asap, if you're cool with that. @t0xeus can set up the thread:
> 
> Shark (Gai) vs @Ayala (A4)
> *Location:* Gokage vs Madara
> ...


Done.



trocollo said:


> Btw are the judging criteria the standard ones or a different version of them (like for example in the Sant vs Turrin match)?


It's always just inspirational unless the debaters themselves tell you to strictly abide by the criteria set up by me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Jun 27, 2020)

@MShadows @FlamingRain @LostSelf let's get  pinned please. Thanks


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## t0xeus (Jun 27, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @MShadows @FlamingRain @LostSelf let's get  pinned please. Thanks


Don't worry, I always ask for a pin in PMs so you don't have to.


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## Kisame (Jul 1, 2020)

@trocollo 
@Mawt 
@Sufex 
@blk 
@BlackHeartedImp 

It's time to vote, let's wrap this one up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Jul 1, 2020)

Shark said:


> @trocollo
> @Mawt
> @Sufex
> @blk
> ...


Sure thing, but as I said I'll be slow so don't get excited

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (Jul 1, 2020)

Shark said:


> @trocollo
> @Mawt
> @Sufex
> @blk
> ...


Ill be on it. What length is expected again? And can we use our own criteria?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jul 1, 2020)

Shark said:


> @trocollo
> @Mawt
> @Sufex
> @blk
> ...


The bell has finally tolled, hmm?


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## Kisame (Jul 1, 2020)

Sufex said:


> Ill be on it. What length is expected again? And can we use our own criteria?


Just anything that isn't too short or would make it seem like the efforts of the contestants was skimmed. Yh you can use your own criteria, just remember the winner should be who had the more convincing argument that their character wins.

Worst case you can wait and see how the other judges do it first


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## Serene Grace (Jul 2, 2020)

Nagato vs itachi? @Illusory ??

Reactions: Like 1


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## Illusory (Jul 2, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Nagato vs itachi? @Illusory ??



I’m down. I have rejuvenated Nagato higher than Itachi overall, but IMO there are good arguments to be made for Itachi.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lyren (Jul 2, 2020)

Tsunade vs EMS Madara + Kurama anyone ?


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## Mawt (Jul 2, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Tsunade vs EMS Madara + Kurama anyone ?


I'll do it. I'll solo with a one liner and send your Tsunadae wank down the drain in the process. 


*Spoiler*: __ 



Jk, I love your Tsuande wank


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## Ayala (Jul 2, 2020)

Lyren said:


> Tsunade vs EMS Madara + Kurama anyone ?



I don't even want to immagine what Madara does to her a** cavity...


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## Sufex (Jul 2, 2020)

Ayala said:


> I don't even want to immagine what Madara does to her a** cavity...


I do

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Jul 2, 2020)

The only ass Madara's touching is Hashirama's.


----------



## Lyren (Jul 2, 2020)




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## Ayala (Jul 2, 2020)

Sufex said:


> I do





*Link Removed*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sufex (Jul 2, 2020)

Ayala said:


> *Link Removed*




Bro you made me scream out loud laughing


*Spoiler*: __ 



still yes tho


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 2, 2020)

Anyone down for a debate? 

I'd prefer to debate less popular characters like Darui, Mei, Shino, Gaara, B, Most versions of Naruto, Konan, Hidan etc. 

I'll still do almost any balanced match up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Jul 2, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Anyone down for a debate?
> 
> I'd prefer to debate less popular characters like Darui, Mei, Shino, Gaara, B, Most versions of Naruto, Konan, Hidan etc.
> 
> I'll still do almost any balanced match up.


I'm down to do a match up in like a week or two if you're on board. Currently taking a little bit of a hiatus tho.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 2, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I'm down to do a match up in like a week or two if you're on board. Currently taking a little bit of a hiatus tho.


Anytime!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Jul 6, 2020)

@Hi no Ishi I know it hasn't quite been a week, but I'm quite ready. 

A match up I'm interested in is Mu vs Gengetsu. The winner is the one who makes the more convincing argument. I'm fine debating for either of them.

Knowledge: None.
Distance: 20m
Location: 4th Division vs Edo Kages and Madara
Mindset: IC

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sufex (Jul 6, 2020)

I challenge @Santí  im willing to debate for any chracters near each others level.

Winner gets mod status

Scared?


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 7, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @Hi no Ishi I know it hasn't quite been a week, but I'm quite ready.
> 
> A match up I'm interested in is Mu vs Gengetsu. The winner is the one who makes the more convincing argument. I'm fine debating for either of them.
> 
> ...


Ohhhhh that actually sounds kinda tough!

I consider them totally even. 

I'll take Gengetsu!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mawt (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Ohhhhh that actually sounds kinda tough!
> 
> I consider them totally even.
> 
> I'll take Gengetsu!


Nice. @t0xeus Feel free to make the thread with the stipulations outlined in my previous post.

As for judges, I'm personally fine with anybody. I'll let you pick them.


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 7, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Nice. @t0xeus Feel free to make the thread with the stipulations outlined in my previous post.
> 
> As for judges, I'm personally fine with anybody. I'll let you pick them.


@ShinAkuma 
@trocollo 
@Shark 
@Hina uzumaki 
@PocketGod 
@Sufex 
@BlackHeartedImp 

Any of you wanna judge?


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## trocollo (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @ShinAkuma
> @trocollo
> @Shark
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


I'm in if the minimum quota is not met cause in this week and at the start of the next one I'll be to busy to pull out a complete response, so I'll have to make it in the second half of the next week


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## PocketGod (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @ShinAkuma
> @trocollo
> @Shark
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...



I feel like my vote/reasoning/thoughts post or whatever it's called would end up being low quality since I'm terrible at explaining things lol so I'll have to decline. 

It was nice of you to think of me for the position though, so thanks for that.


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## Kisame (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @ShinAkuma
> @trocollo
> @Shark
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


Yh count me in, this is a very interesting match-up with great potential.


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## t0xeus (Jul 7, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Nice. @t0xeus Feel free to make the thread with the stipulations outlined in my previous post.
> 
> As for judges, I'm personally fine with anybody. I'll let you pick them.





Hi no Ishi said:


> @ShinAkuma
> @trocollo
> @Shark
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


I'll make the thread as soon as at least 3 judges confirm they're down. 

 HiNo already tagged plenty of people, so let's wait and see if they confirm.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ShinAkuma (Jul 7, 2020)

There is simply not enough shit posting in judging! 

...But considering the quality of the posters debating I can offer my services as a judge.

Reactions: Like 2


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## BlackHeartedImp (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @ShinAkuma
> @trocollo
> @Shark
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


Are y'all trying to kill me? I barely made it out of the Ayala vs Shark debate alive the last time I judged 

Oh, it's @Hi no Ishi ... 

I guess I can make an exception.


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 7, 2020)

Shark said:


> Yh count me in, this is a very interesting match-up with great potential.





ShinAkuma said:


> There is simply not enough shit posting in judging!
> 
> ...But considering the quality of the posters debating I can offer my services as a judge.





BlackHeartedImp said:


> Are y'all trying to kill me? I barely made it out of the Ayala vs Shark debate alive the last time I judged
> 
> Oh, it's @Hi no Ishi ...
> 
> I guess I can make an exception.


@t0xeus @Mawt

We got judgment baby!

What rules yall wanna do? 

1,000-2,000 words per open. 2 rebuttals per player?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Jul 7, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @t0xeus @Mawt
> 
> We got judgment baby!
> 
> ...


Sound good


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## ShinAkuma (Jul 7, 2020)

Damn I gotta teach myself how to judge now?

***starts googling***


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## t0xeus (Jul 8, 2020)

ShinAkuma said:


> Damn I gotta teach myself how to judge now?
> 
> ***starts googling***


If you're even a tiny bit serious, you can take a look at the previous matches and the verdicts from the judges there 
*4) *
*5)* 
*6)*


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## Serene Grace (Jul 12, 2020)

Hebi Sasuke vs kisame anybody? I will argue for Hebi Sasuke


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## Troyse22 (Jul 12, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Hebi Sasuke vs kisame anybody? I will argue for Hebi Sasuke



I can already see the arguments

Hebi Sasuke cuts Kisames head off because Asuma gave him a paper cut, therefore that P1 showing completely invalidates his P2 showing where he's fucking people who can or have fucked Sasuke

Shit diff, go back to the Chunin exams Kisame amirite


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 12, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Hebi Sasuke vs kisame anybody? I will argue for Hebi Sasuke


I'll do it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Serene Grace (Jul 12, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I'll do it


Alright.


Troyse22 said:


> I can already see the arguments
> 
> Hebi Sasuke cuts Kisames head off because Asuma gave him a paper cut, therefore that P1 showing completely invalidates his P2 showing where he's fucking people who can or have fucked Sasuke
> 
> Shit diff, go back to the Chunin exams Kisame amirite


Don’t think either stomps, it goes either way imo


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 12, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Alright.
> 
> Don’t think either stomps, it goes either way imo


What stips?


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## Serene Grace (Jul 12, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> What stips?


Manga knowledge 
Mindset: IC+killing intent
Restrictions: None in particular 
Distance: 10m


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 12, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> Manga knowledge
> Mindset: IC+killing intent
> Restrictions: None in particular
> Distance: 10m


What's the location?


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## Kisame (Jul 12, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> What's the location?


3 miles beneath the surface of the ocean.

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Jul 12, 2020)

@Serene Grace @Mad Scientist 
got any idea who you'd like as for the judges?


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 12, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Serene Grace @Mad Scientist
> got any idea who you'd like as for the judges?


@Serene Grace I say we should pick 2 judges each and agree on one more.

I would like judges who will remain neutral and impartial, such as Soul and t0xeus, and I hope we can agree on any of the moderators as our agreed judge.

Also, if you are not sure about the location Serene Grace, we can do 30% Kisame vs Gai's location, which is fairly neutral.


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## Serene Grace (Jul 12, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Serene Grace @Mad Scientist
> got any idea who you'd like as for the judges?





Mad Scientist said:


> @Serene Grace I say we should pick 2 judges each and agree on one more.
> 
> I would like judges who will remain neutral and impartial, such as Soul and t0xeus, and I hope we can agree on any of the moderators as our agreed judge.
> 
> Also, if you are not sure about the location Serene Grace, we can do 30% Kisame vs Gai's location, which is fairly neutral.


I’m alright with any judge tbh. But I’d nominate @Shark @DaVizWiz


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 12, 2020)

Serene Grace said:


> I’m alright with any judge tbh. But I’d nominate @Shark @DaVizWiz


Sounds good 

I wonder if @MShadows would be willing to judge?


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 13, 2020)

Okay...

@Soul @t0xeus @Shark @DaVizWiz @FlamingRain - Are you guys okay with judging?


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## Kisame (Jul 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Okay...
> 
> @Soul @t0xeus @Shark @DaVizWiz @FlamingRain - Are you guys okay with judging?


Yh I'm down.


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 13, 2020)

Shark said:


> Yh I'm down.


Thanks! I'll see what the others say too  Hopefully everyone is on board.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Jul 13, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Okay...
> 
> @Soul @t0xeus @Shark @DaVizWiz @FlamingRain - Are you guys okay with judging?



Hebi vs Kisame? Sure


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## t0xeus (Jul 14, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Okay...
> 
> @Soul @t0xeus @Shark @DaVizWiz @FlamingRain - Are you guys okay with judging?



Sorry, I am too busy lately, I don't think I'd be able to give it high enough effort.


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 14, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Sorry, I am too busy lately, I don't think I'd be able to give it high enough effort.


No problem!

@Santoryu @Ayala @Zembie @Artistwannabe @~Kakashi~ @Jad Would any of you be willing to judge a match? It's Kisame vs Hebi Sasuke. We need 3 more people.


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## Mawt (Jul 14, 2020)

@t0xeus appointed me to be his substitute in case he takes a while to make a thread, set up a match, etc. So you can tag me if t0x is taking a while.


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## Ayala (Jul 14, 2020)

@Mad Scientist  thanks for the call but perhaps i don't have time


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 14, 2020)

Ayala said:


> @Mad Scientist  thanks for the call but perhaps i don't have time


No worries!


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## ~Kakashi~ (Jul 14, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> No problem!
> 
> @Santoryu @Ayala @Zembie @Artistwannabe @~Kakashi~ @Jad Would any of you be willing to judge a match? It's Kisame vs Hebi Sasuke. We need 3 more people.



Sure


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 14, 2020)

@trocollo Are you down to judge bro?


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## Lyren (Jul 14, 2020)

Kisame is legit threat to MS Sasuke, this will be spite.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Jul 15, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @trocollo Are you down to judge bro?


Sure thing lets do this


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 15, 2020)

@Sufex @SakuraLover16 @Hina uzumaki either of you willing to judge a match?


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## SakuraLover16 (Jul 15, 2020)

Sure what’s the matchup?


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## Hina uzumaki (Jul 15, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Sufex @SakuraLover16 @Hina uzumaki either of you willing to judge a match?


Unfortunately i'd have to decline...maybe next time


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## Mawt (Jul 15, 2020)

If you still need judges, I'm always down.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 15, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Sure what’s the matchup?


The matchup is Hebi Sasuke vs Kisame


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 15, 2020)

@t0xeus, if you can do the honours 

Kisame (me) vs Hebi Sasuke (@Serene Grace)

Manga knowledge
Mindset: IC+killing intent
Restrictions: None in particular
Distance: 10m
Location: Shoten Kisame vs Team Guy

For judges, we have:
@Shark
@Soul
@~Kakashi~
@trocollo
@SakuraLover16

5 works and acts as a tie-breaker if need be. We have @Mawt as backup if necessary (thanks).

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Jul 15, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> 5 works and acts as a tie-breaker if need be. We have @Mawt as backup if necessary (thanks).


If he wants to do it I can switch the back up role with him, it's cool either way with me


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## Mawt (Jul 15, 2020)

trocollo said:


> If he wants to do it I can switch the back up role with him, it's cool either way with me


I'm fine with backup. 

Also, I'll set up the thread since t0x is taking forever.


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## trocollo (Jul 15, 2020)

Mawt said:


> t0x is taking forever.


KInda my fault there I'm blasting him with replies since he doesn't want to accept that Minato dodges A4 everytime


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## Mawt (Jul 15, 2020)

@Mad Scientist What are the number of posts and how many words per post?

EDIT: I'll default to 2 posts with 1500 words each. If you want it changed, just let me know


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## Zembie (Jul 16, 2020)

If I ever find the free time, I am open to trying this out, I'm willing to debate for Obito (any version except pre-minato fight and Juubito/DMS), Itachi (any version), Sasuke (non god-tiers), Naruto (non-godtiers), Tobirama. Always open for ideas, tho this are the characters I am most interested in debating for.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 16, 2020)

Open challenge to debate for anyone!

I prefer to argue for Gaara, Killer B, Kakashi, Naruto, Konan, 6PoP or Darui but will take most fair match ups.

Not intrested in matches involving The Sannin or Itachi or the other more obsessed over characters really.
@Mawt and I have a Gaara vs Itachi coming up, so I'd do those characters too if it was a particularly fun match up though.

Down for judging as well.

Good luck in your own matches and stay safe everyone!


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## Mawt (Jul 16, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Open challenge to debate for anyone!
> 
> I prefer to argue for Gaara, Killer B, Kakashi, Naruto, Konan, 6PoP or Darui but will take most fair match ups.
> 
> ...


I'd say sometime next month would be a good time for Gaara vs Itachi. I think I'll take a little break from the challenger arena after our last match. 

EDIT: Also, I'm fine switching Itachi out for Kisame if you want more of an "unpopular" character matchup. I'm pretty confident in my ability to argue for Kisame. And it'd be my fave vs yours.


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## Hi no Ishi (Jul 16, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I'd say sometime next month would be a good time for Gaara vs Itachi. I think I'll take a little break from the challenger arena after our last match.
> 
> EDIT: Also, I'm fine switching Itachi out for Kisame if you want more of an "unpopular" character matchup. I'm pretty confident in my ability to argue for Kisame. And it'd be my fave vs yours.


That sounds great to me!


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## Troyse22 (Jul 16, 2020)

Mawt said:


> I'd say sometime next month would be a good time for Gaara vs Itachi. I think I'll take a little break from the challenger arena after our last match.
> 
> EDIT: Also, I'm fine switching Itachi out for Kisame if you want more of an "unpopular" character matchup. I'm pretty confident in my ability to argue for Kisame. And it'd be my fave vs yours.





Hi no Ishi said:


> That sounds great to me!



Kisame can physically withstand even a direct sand coffin. He can outmuscle the sand. He can swim through it with subterranean voyage

/thread

Don't waste time on a fodder debate


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## ShinAkuma (Jul 17, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Kisame can physically withstand even a direct sand coffin. He can outmuscle the sand. He can swim through it with subterranean voyage
> 
> /thread
> 
> Don't waste time on a fodder debate


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## Sloan (Jul 17, 2020)

Troyse22 said:


> Kisame can physically withstand even a direct sand coffin. He can outmuscle the sand. He can swim through it with subterranean voyage
> 
> /thread
> 
> Don't waste time on a fodder debate



I believe formal debates aren't just about pointing out the obvious or the facts of the matter it's about your skill as a debater.  If I pick to argue for Edo Nagato>BM Naruto or Jiraya>Kisame in a formal debate it's not like I actually have to believe that.  Personally I don't care to "win" a debate I just debate what I think is true and hope to find more of an understanding when discussing with others and vs debates are just fun in nature and a good way to kill time(although I have been pretty bored of it lately).  I don't think Mawt or Hi No Ishi are wasting any time because for them it's probably fun to debate these topics.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Stonaem (Jul 30, 2020)

@MHA massive fan
Sick Kimimaro vs Sick Itachi
Healthy Kimimaro vs Healthy Itachi
Jugo vs 3T Madara (no summons, obviously)

Pick one, lets go

This isn't simply about you, of course. I don't know if you genuinely consider these characs to be below kage level or if its just going with the crowd, but I need to address the issue either way. Especially if its crowdism, since that's really unhealthy for the state of debate around here. I actually wanted to . . . Never mind.

My conditions are thusly:
• 5 Judges
- 1 of them MUST be @Ayala
- 1 must be picked by @Lyren, in which case anyone not directly tagged in this post is fair game, besides yourself (i.e. you may pick yourself)
- 1 must be picked by @Ultrafragor, with the same conditions as above
- the above 2 may delegate their charge to anyone not directly tagged in this post
- 2 of them can be picked by yourself directly
- There'll be 3 rounds of posting. The first will be the opening post, the major arguement explaining your case. The second will be a direct reply to the opponents opening post. The third post will be a summation of the debate, properly explaining what went down and who the judges should vote for. Consider the third post as a direct appeal to the judges for your case.
- Reply time totals at 5 days per poster. That is to say, I must reply to each of your posts within a total period of 5 days and vice versa. Since there'll be three rounds, that can be broken up into 3-2, 4-1, 2-1-2 or whatever other combo, but the total number.of.days replying to all posts mustn't go beyond 5 days. The first post doesn't count as a reply, since we can't confirm wh will be ready first.

Just to note:
I understand that it's a busy time, so you may pick someone (not directly tagged in this post) else to be your proxy if you wish.
For the sake of the judges, our debate will follow.standard rules. However, I myself don't really.care for all that petty stuff, but rather for factuality. That is to say, I'll easily acknowledge and would even concede to a post that only has 200 words if it properly fulfilled your burden of proof.

And of course, I'll be arguement against the Uchiha, for whichever match you pick.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Jul 30, 2020)

@Turrin You ready for our match?

Kisame (me) vs Sasori (you)
Location: 30% Kisame vs Team Guy
Knowledge: Kisame knows Sasori is a puppet user with a deadly poison, Sasori knows Kisame's a Suiton user and his sword has the ability to absorb Chakra.
Mindset: IC
Distance: 20m

Only 500 words per post, 2 posts each (opening and rebuttal).


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## Turrin (Jul 31, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @Turrin You ready for our match?
> 
> Kisame (me) vs Sasori (you)
> Location: 30% Kisame vs Team Guy
> ...


I can’t do it this weekend, but I could probably do it next week

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 31, 2020)

*I challenge : *@Soldierofficial
*Match:* WA Masters vs VOTE Madara
*Location:* Naruto-Bee vs Itachi-Nagato
*Knowledge:* Masters have reputation knowledge, Madara has no knowledge
*Distance:* 15 metres
*Restrictions:* Kurama

2000 words, 2 posts.

Three judges will be fine.


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## Soldierofficial (Jul 31, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@Soldierofficial
> *Match:* WA Masters vs VOTE Madara
> *Location:* Naruto-Bee vs Itachi-Nagato
> *Knowledge:* Masters have reputation knowledge, Madara has no knowledge
> ...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 31, 2020)

Soldierofficial said:


>


I was also wondering about a 2v2. You can have JJ on your team (don't underestimate him) and I'll have someone from the Masters clan.


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## Sloan (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I was also wondering about a 2v2. You can have JJ on your team (don't underestimate him) and I'll have someone from the Masters clan.


I was thinking of 2vs2 debates a while back actually.  One does the opener one does the rebuttal.  Sounds neat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soldierofficial (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I was also wondering about a 2v2. You can have JJ on your team (don't underestimate him) and I'll have someone from the Masters clan.



I don't know if JJ would be interested.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

Soldierofficial said:


> I don't know if JJ would be interested.


@J★J♥ you interested in a 2v2?


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @J★J♥ you interested in a 2v2?


What are the rules ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> What are the rules ?





Mad Scientist said:


> *Match:* WA Masters vs VOTE Madara
> *Location:* Naruto-Bee vs Itachi-Nagato
> *Knowledge:* Masters have reputation knowledge, Madara has no knowledge
> *Distance:* 15 metres
> ...


We might do 1500 words instead, as 2000 might be too long.

We just have to convince 2/3 judges who wins.

Your team can decide between who posts first and second (for example, if Soldierofficial does the opening, you would do the rebuttal).

Reactions: Like 2


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> We might do 1500 words instead, as 2000 might be too long.
> 
> We just have to convince 2/3 judges who wins.
> 
> Your team can decide between who posts first and second (for example, if Soldierofficial does the opening, you would do the rebuttal).


And what are we debating on ?


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> And what are we debating on ?


Did you not see my quoted post? 

You and Soldierofficial would be arguing for VOTE Madara (Kurama restricted), whereas I and someone else would be debating for Kakashi and Gai.

Obviously, that's only if Soldierofficial accepts. If you don't want to do it, or if Soldierofficial decides to have someone like a Madara fan on his team, then that's fine. 

Speaking of which, I wonder if @t0xeus would be up for the challenge.


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Did you not see my quoted post?
> 
> You and Soldierofficial would be arguing for VOTE Madara (Kurama restricted), whereas I and someone else would be debating for Kakashi and Gai.
> 
> ...


 why would I argue for Madara ?


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## Mawt (Aug 1, 2020)

Easy solution: Just replace Madara with Hashirama. They have similar power levels, except Hashirama is a character JJ actually likes. 

If you think that's unfair, then just restrict Hashirama to Base.

Reactions: Like 1


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Will we be allowed to use statements of participants that happened before the debate ?


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## Soldierofficial (Aug 1, 2020)

But I don't like Hashitrama


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)




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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> Will we be allowed to use statements of participants that happened before the debate ?


I don't see why not, but I wouldn't rely on it much.



J★J♥ said:


> why would I argue for Madara ?


You wanted to debate for Hashirama against Gai once, so I thought you would be content with Madara who is cooler than his counterpart. Plus, if Madara's a lot stronger than the Masters, then it gives you the starting edge which is nice since you don't seem to have much formal debating experience.

Of course, if you don't want to debate for Madara, and if Soldierofficial doesn't want to debate for Hashirama, then that plan is off. 

Instead, maybe someone else can take your place.

An alternative I might agree to is a 3v3 (1000 words each). You can be on my team as long as you prove you can debate for Kakashi.


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I don't see why not, but I wouldn't rely on it much.
> 
> 
> You wanted to debate for Hashirama against Gai once, so I thought you would be content with Madara who is cooler than his counterpart. Plus, if Madara's a lot stronger than the Masters, then it gives you the starting edge which is nice since you don't seem to have much formal debating experience.
> ...


lets not make statements about who is cooler or who is stronger than whom before the debate. Also I had my nefarious reasons for Hashirama vs Gai 1x1 debate.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> lets not make statements about who is cooler or who is stronger than whom before the debate.


Very well.



J★J♥ said:


> Also I had my nefarious reasons for Hashirama vs Gai 1x1 debate.


Do you want to argue for Madara, for the Masters, or just pass on this debate entirely?


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## J★J♥ (Aug 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Very well.
> 
> 
> Do you want to argue for Madara, for the Masters, or just pass on this debate entirely?


Ill pass


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

J★J♥ said:


> Ill pass


Okay. Thanks for letting me know.

@Soldierofficial Would you like to invite someone to your team or should we just have a 1v1?


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## Ludi (Aug 1, 2020)

Imagine JJ arguing for Kakashi


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## Troyse22 (Aug 1, 2020)

Anyone wanna debate?

Will debate anyone here with the exception of:
Mithos
Turrin
Shazam
Jiraiyaflash
Serene Grace
Orochimaruwantsyourbody
Zero*insertrandomnumbers*
Aegon*whateverthefuck*
Maru (or any of his dupes)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 1, 2020)

@Shark vs @Troyse22 

Settle it once and for all.

Jiraiya vs Kisame


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## Ayala (Aug 2, 2020)

I cant believe we didnt get to see the match between Mad and Serene to the end, what a shame.



Troyse22 said:


> Anyone wanna debate?
> 
> Will debate anyone here with the exception of:
> Mithos
> ...



That's the forum basically, you can only debate Sakuralover16 or Sage light at this point


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 3, 2020)

*I challenge : *@Hussain
*Match:* Hokage Minato (you) vs WA Kakashi (me)
*Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
*Knowledge:* None
*Distance:* 15 m
*Restrictions:* None!

2 posts, 1500 words


*I challenge :* @J★J♥ 
*Match:* Hashirama (you) vs Gai (me)
*Location:* Konoha Crater
*Knowledge:* P1 Reputation
*Distance:* 25 m
*Restrictions:* Gai starts in the 7th Gate!

2 posts, 500 words


*I challenge :* @Illusory @Troyse22 @ShinAkuma @Orochimaru op @Lyren
*Match:* Itachi and Kisame (me, illusory, troyse22) vs The Legendary Three (shinakuma, orochimaru op, lyren)
*Location:* Sannin Deadlock
*Knowledge:* None
*Distance:* 20 m
*Restrictions:* None! (Oh, I guess Orochimaru is restricted to P1 Edos..)

3 posts (1 each), 1000 words


​


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 3, 2020)

@Hussain Lewd react?


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## Trojan (Aug 3, 2020)

Lol, sorry I can't do this type of debate. It makes me feel obligated and stressed...


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 3, 2020)

Hussain said:


> Lol, sorry I can't do this type of debate. It makes me feel obligated and stressed...


Okay, thanks, but could you please change the lewd rating to optimistic or something?

I will rep you when I can


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## Troyse22 (Aug 3, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@Hussain
> *Match:* Hokage Minato (you) vs WA Kakashi (me)
> *Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
> *Knowledge:* None
> ...



Not interested in a 3v3 debate, although I'd be happy to 1v1 someone about Itachi and Kisame vs The Sannin.


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## Troyse22 (Aug 3, 2020)

Hussain said:


> Lol, sorry I can't do this type of debate. It makes me feel obligated and stressed...



Yeah direct accountability for your headcanon and being called out directly, I can see why you wouldn't like that


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## Turrin (Aug 3, 2020)

@Mawt 

I don’t think I have the time to do a formal debate this week. We could make a thread and do an informal discussion on Sasori vs Kisame or one over discord. I just don’t think I have the time to make my posts look nice.


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## Santoryu (Aug 3, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@Hussain
> *Match:* Hokage Minato (you) vs WA Kakashi (me)
> *Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
> *Knowledge:* None
> ...




That's a lot of commitment


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## Mawt (Aug 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> @Mawt
> 
> I don’t think I have the time to do a formal debate this week. We could make a thread and do an informal discussion on Sasori vs Kisame or one over discord. I just don’t think I have the time to make my posts look nice.


We can always do it some other week. I don't mean to rush you at all. We can do it whenever you're ready.

It's only 500 words and two posts. No need to be fancy or anything. We pretty much type that much in our Discord convos already lmao.

EDIT: Since you're not ready this week, I think I'll challenge @Hi no Ishi to our Kisame vs Gaara match. Assuming he's ready of course.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Aug 3, 2020)

Mawt said:


> We can always do it some other week. I don't mean to rush you at all. We can do it whenever you're ready.
> 
> It's only 500 words and two posts. No need to be fancy or anything. We pretty much type that much in our Discord convos already lmao.
> 
> EDIT: Since you're not ready this week, I think I'll challenge @Hi no Ishi to our Kisame vs Gaara match. Assuming he's ready of course.


True but then I got to get scans and make the arguments sound good; versus discord or informal I can just discuss it with you


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## Mawt (Aug 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> True but then I got to get scans and make the arguments sound good; versus discord or informal I can just discuss it with you


Oh well, I'm fine either way. I'm down to discuss it once the Hi no Ishi debate's over (assuming he's ready for it atm).


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## Ayala (Aug 4, 2020)

@Mad Scientist vs @Illusory 

WA Kakashi vs Itachi 



Make it happen please

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 4, 2020)

Ayala said:


> @Mad Scientist vs @Illusory
> 
> WA Kakashi vs Itachi
> 
> ...


After having tried to take on the Minato stand, Sannin band and Founders sands, not one person was willing to take me on across the land...



(...well, aside from JJ and Windmaster Sam. The former had nefarious reasons apparently and I don't know what happened to the latter.)

Has now the time come to battle a brother from the same Sharingan University from which we graduated?


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## Ayala (Aug 4, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> After having tried to take on the Minato stand, Sannin band and Founders sands, not one person was willing to take me on across the land...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Invincible under the sun 

Also yeah, the time has come 

When there's no food, we eat each other


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## Ayala (Aug 4, 2020)

@Mad Scientist vs @Android


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## Turrin (Aug 4, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Oh well, I'm fine either way. I'm down to discuss it once the Hi no Ishi debate's over (assuming he's ready for it atm).


Okay let me know when your ready for discussion; I would prefer that as I will be very busy this month

Reactions: Like 1


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## Illusory (Aug 4, 2020)

Ayala said:


> @Mad Scientist vs @Illusory
> 
> WA Kakashi vs Itachi
> 
> ...



Sorry, @Ayala, @Mad Scientist

Nowadays, I prefer debating when I'm 100% convinced (on my end) that one character is firmly at the advantage, as it makes me more passionate about my persuasive argument and less wishy-washy about different variables. And I simply don't feel that way about WA Kakashi vs Itachi. People saying WA Kakashi is superior doesn't really bug me at all, although IMO they're more equal.

I think Mad and I would basically end up agreeing that IC actions based on knowledge would determine the fight (definitely favoring Kakashi). If the knowledge situation were different, we'd end up agreeing that it could come down to clone feints to land finishing hits, and could pretty much go either way at that point. At best, I'd be interested to know how Mad thinks WA Kakashi's speed compares to Edo Itachi, as IMO Kakashi is a bit slower but I'm also fuzzy on the last 100 chapters of the manga. However, the vast majority of the debate I just wouldn't be that into it since I'd be a basic bitch Switzerland: entirely neutral to the outcome.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ayala (Aug 4, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Pretty sure Mad and I both agree that either can win, and it comes down to knowledge determining IC actions, or tactical clone shenanigans. At best, I could see an interesting debate about each character's speed happening. But I prefer debating when I'm 100% convinced (on my end) that one character is firmly at the advantage against the other.



That was an idea, but you could debate MS in another matchup. He's easily the most elastic guy i've seen.


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## Illusory (Aug 4, 2020)

Ayala said:


> That was an idea, but you could debate MS in another matchup. He's easily the most elastic guy i've seen.



When I really think about it, I feel the same way about 3T WA Kakashi vs 3T Healthy/Edo Itachi. I don't think Itachi "firmly" wins. At my most generous, I would argue for a 60/40 split in favor of Itachi (and I admittedly do NOT have a good working knowledge of the last 100 chapters of the manga, so that could totally change if I'm convinced Kakashi has a speed advantage and not the contrary), and the feeling of "You NF fools aren't respecting the feats" just isn't there for me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 4, 2020)

Illusory said:


> Sorry, @Ayala, @Mad Scientist
> 
> Nowadays, I prefer debating when I'm 100% convinced (on my end) that one character is firmly at the advantage, as it makes me more passionate about my persuasive argument and less wishy-washy about different variables. And I simply don't feel that way about WA Kakashi vs Itachi. People saying WA Kakashi is superior doesn't really bug me at all, although IMO they're more equal.


Pretty much this. Some day in the future, I think a WA Kakashi vs Healthy Itachi debate would be nice.


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## Illusory (Aug 4, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Pretty much this. Some day in the future, I think a WA Kakashi vs Healthy Itachi debate would be nice.



It's been on my to-do list to re-read the manga (I started tracking and noting feats veeeeery carefully while making a tier list), so maybe after that, when I have a very firm grip on the end of the War Arc, I'd be down, assuming by then I don't change my tune and believe WA Kakashi is firmly superior.

I'm not going to lie though, I'm at the very beginning of the Chunin Exam Arc and haven't continued for awhile (a month-ish) as some professional obligations are high at the moment (going to calm down soon) and I've also been playing Civ 6 in some of my downtime now haha. So it might be a minute..


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 4, 2020)

@Android 
If you're up for a formal debate anytime, we can do KCM Naruto (you) vs WA Kakashi (me).


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## Soldierofficial (Aug 4, 2020)

*Match:* Healthy Kimimaro vs WA Gai
*Location:* Kimimaro vs Naruto, Lee, Gaara
*Knowledge:* None
*Distance:* 100 metres
*Restrictions:* 8th Gate

10.000 words, 5 posts, 10 judges.


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## Ayala (Aug 4, 2020)

Soldierofficial said:


> *Match:* Healthy Kimimaro vs WA Gai
> *Location:* Kimimaro vs Naruto, Lee, Gaara
> *Knowledge:* None
> *Distance:* 100 metres
> ...



10000 words? 

Who's gonna judge


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## Ludi (Aug 4, 2020)

Soldierofficial said:


> *Match:* Healthy Kimimaro vs WA Gai
> *Location:* Kimimaro vs Naruto, Lee, Gaara
> *Knowledge:* None
> *Distance:* 100 metres
> ...


Damn, 2 people writing a book. 

10000 words on healthy kimimaro, who appeared in like 4(?) chapters and was either nearly dead or edo, never healthy


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## trocollo (Aug 4, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> *I challenge : *@Hussain
> *Match:* Hokage Minato (you) vs WA Kakashi (me)
> *Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
> *Knowledge:* None
> ...


If you want I can challenge you on that, as I said to you when you challenged me Idk hom may months ago, I'm cool in doing a debate in august

A question for the word count, is that like an upper limit or a suggested count?
Like if I do 500 or 1000 words is still ok? Or I have to be around the 1500? Or if I do 1600 it's not cool cause it was a limit?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

@Hi no Ishi You wanna start coordinating our match? I'm personally open this week. I'll be away from the forums next week (11-14th), but I'm open for the week after that one.


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @Hi no Ishi You wanna start coordinating our match? I'm personally open this week. I'll be away from the forums next week (11-14th), but I'm open for the week after that one.


I'm going camping for my anniversary next week as well so I'll he in the woods but I'm down to start this week or after the 14th. 

How does this sound to you?


Gaara (Hi no Ishi) vs Kisame (Mawt)
Location  
Desert oasis (lots of sand and a lake all pre made)
Distance: 30m 
Knowledge: None. 

1,500 words or less and 2 rebuttals per player.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo said:


> If you want I can challenge you on that, as I said to you when you challenged me Idk hom may months ago, I'm cool in doing a debate in august
> 
> A question for the word count, is that like an upper limit or a suggested count?
> Like if I do 500 or 1000 words is still ok? Or I have to be around the 1500? Or if I do 1600 it's not cool cause it was a limit?


Sounds great!

1500 words would be both an upper limit and the aim.

We could do 1000 words instead if you want.


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Sounds great!
> 
> 1500 words would be both an upper limit and the aim.


I see, tho I think I'm gonna reach 1000 (I already started writing it yesterday) and be concise, with 1500 I'd end up making a larger argument than what I think I need, if you're cool with my argument being smaller then ok, otherwise I'll expand with more

Now for the judges, the time and the conditions:
I got no problems with time, cause as I said I'm already at a good point with the argument, so from later today to whenever you want I'm ready
For the judges I'm cool with everyone, don't feel obliged in having to search posters with different views, you're free to chose posters you've interacted more with, as you'd know better their capabilityes
Conditions I'd like for them to be more centered around how strong the argument is, and less about the "presenting" part (wich I'll basically ignore lol, tho I know you dedicate time to that, ence feel free to chose any judge since I'm already asking this)


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I see, tho I think I'm gonna reach 1000 (I already started writing it yesterday) and be concise, with 1500 I'd end up making a larger argument than what I think I need, if you're cool with my argument being smaller then ok, otherwise I'll expand with more


We can make it 1000 words instead.



trocollo said:


> Now for the judges, the time and the conditions:
> I got no problems with time, cause as I said I'm already at a good point with the argument, so from later today to whenever you want I'm ready
> For the judges I'm cool with everyone don't feel obliged in having to search posters with different views, you're free to chose posters you've interacted more with, as you'd know better their capabilityes
> Conditions I'd like for them to be more centered around how strong the argument is, and less about the "presenting" part (wich I'll basically ignore lol, tho I know you dedicate time to that, ence feel free to chose any judge since I'm already asking this)


That's fine. I don't care about the presenting part either, I think judges should just focus on the quality of the argument.

@Soul @t0xeus @BlackHeartedImp @Ayala @LostSelf @FlamingRain @MShadows @Zembie @Illusory @Veracity let me know if any of you are interested in judging  It's reviewing 2000 words between trocollo and I, Kakashi vs Minato.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

@t0xeus @Mawt
Can one of you please set it up?

*Match:* Hokage Minato (@trocollo) vs WA Kakashi (@Mad Scientist)
*Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
*Knowledge:* None
*Distance:* 15 m
*Restrictions:* None!

2 posts, 1000 words

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> We can make it 1000 words instead.


I mean, you can write a 5000 words argument and it's fine to me, just don't feel restricted by me making a smaller one if you have more to write to explain your stance precisely


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## Sloan (Aug 5, 2020)

Is Kakashi still considered a Master in this scenerio? 

Killed Rin, almost killed Obito/Tobi and wanted to kill Sasuke.  Now he’s going to kill his Master?  Kakashi’s a savage.


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## Ayala (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> We can make it 1000 words instead.
> 
> 
> That's fine. I don't care about the presenting part either, I think judges should just focus on the quality of the argument.
> ...



I can try, but mind you i've never done it and i dont know how fit i am for this job. Also because judging is really tough if you think about it, it's a huge responsability. But i can try, sure, thanks for the mention


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

Can anyone judge @Mawt and I on our Kisame vs Gaara match? 

@ShinAkuma 
@Hina uzumaki 
@The_Conqueror 
@Shark 
@trocollo 
@Ayala 
@WorldsStrongest 
@Orochimaruwantsyourbody


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

@BlackHeartedImp
@Grinningfox
@ThirdRidoku
@MHA massive fan
@Aegon Targaryen
@t0xeus


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Can anyone judge @Mawt and I on our Kisame vs Gaara match?
> 
> @ShinAkuma
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


Sure, on what judging conditions?


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Sure, on what judging conditions?





Hi no Ishi said:


> I'm going camping for my anniversary next week as well so I'll he in the woods but I'm down to start this week or after the 14th.
> 
> How does this sound to you?
> 
> ...





t0xeus said:


> Analysis (The level of thinking and analysis)
> Creativity (The creativity)
> Structure (The structure/flow of argument/Visually appealing)
> Factual (Are they using logical/factual contents from the manga?)
> ...



This works! As long as @Mawt is fine with it I'm ready to roll!


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

@Santoryu , @Crimson Flam3s , @DaVizWiz , @Jad
Any of you has interest in judging this?:


Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus @Mawt
> Can one of you please set it up?
> 
> *Match:* Hokage Minato (@trocollo) vs WA Kakashi (@Mad Scientist)
> ...


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I'm going camping for my anniversary next week as well so I'll he in the woods but I'm down to start this week or after the 14th.
> 
> How does this sound to you?
> 
> ...


Sounds good. i'm ready this week.



Hi no Ishi said:


> This works! As long as @Mawt is fine with it I'm ready to roll!





Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus @Mawt
> Can one of you please set it up?
> 
> *Match:* Hokage Minato (@trocollo) vs WA Kakashi (@Mad Scientist)
> ...


Let's try to get three judges for each match and I'll make the thread(s).

So far we have trocollo for one match and Ayala for the other match I think. So four more judges. Time to tag the whole forum.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

(Sorry in advance for double tagging)

@Soul @t0xeus @BlackHeartedImp @Ayala @LostSelf @FlamingRain @MShadows @Zembie @Illusory @Veracity 

Any of you guys wanna judge the Mad Scientist vs trocollo debate?


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

@ShinAkuma 
@Hina uzumaki
@The_Conqueror
@Shark
@trocollo
@Ayala
@WorldsStrongest
@Orochimaruwantsyourbody

Any of you wanna judge the Hi no Ishi debate?


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo's mentions must be going crazy


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Time to tag the whole forum.


I wanna do this so much, @Mad Scientist you got any other poster that you think is good for the job? If not, would you rather prefer me starting to tag people or to have this debate discussed and (hopefully) resolved betwen the two of us?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Can anyone judge @Mawt and I on our Kisame vs Gaara match?
> 
> @ShinAkuma
> @Hina uzumaki
> ...


I'm quite ill RN, therefore i won't be able to judge. Sorry for the inconvience


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## BlackHeartedImp (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> (Sorry in advance for double tagging)
> 
> @Soul @t0xeus @BlackHeartedImp @Ayala @LostSelf @FlamingRain @MShadows @Zembie @Illusory @Veracity
> 
> Any of you guys wanna judge the Mad Scientist vs trocollo debate?


Mawt, dawg, I'm retired. 2 judging stints is my limit in sage mode, I gotta pop a clone to recharge.


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

Hina uzumaki said:


> I'm quite ill RN, therefore i won't be able to judge. Sorry for the inconvience


Sorry to hear that you're ill friend! I hope you feel better soon!


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Why are these people leaving us on read. 15 viewers and 2 responses. 

Just answer if you can judge or not and be on your merry way.


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## Soul (Aug 5, 2020)

@Mad Scientist sure I can judge


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

Soul said:


> @Mad Scientist sure I can judge


Thanks for always being down to judge!


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## Ayala (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> (Sorry in advance for double tagging)
> 
> @Soul @t0xeus @BlackHeartedImp @Ayala @LostSelf @FlamingRain @MShadows @Zembie @Illusory @Veracity
> 
> Any of you guys wanna judge the Mad Scientist vs trocollo debate?



Yeah i already answered to Mad earlier today, i can give it a shot, unless some unforeseen shit pops up. Perhaps i cant judge yours and Hi no Ishi's because my limit is even shorter than Blackheartedimp's, i can pop my ability once every 10 years like Shisui 

Seriously talking i dont have much time to dedicate, i'd be honored to judge a match between you guys, but im behind in many irl matters. Maybe hopefully in the future


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I wanna do this so much, @Mad Scientist you got any other poster that you think is good for the job? If not, would you rather prefer me starting to tag people or to have this debate discussed and (hopefully) resolved betwen the two of us?


I'll tag some more people who I think would be good: @DaVizWiz @blk @~Kakashi~ @Sufex @Orochimaru op @SakuraLover16 @BringerOfChaos @Beyonce

Any of you interested in judging a match, 2000 words, Kakashi vs Minato?


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## Soul (Aug 5, 2020)

I challenge @Mad Scientist to a SRA Naruto vs SRA Sasuke match (or just propose another match that's close as per canon). Maximum of 250 words. My request is also that there is only one judge, @Mad Scientist himself.


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## Ludi (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I'll tag some more people who I think would be good: @DaVizWiz @blk @~Kakashi~ @Sufex @Orochimaru op @SakuraLover16 @BringerOfChaos @Beyonce
> 
> Any of you interested in judging a match, 2000 words, Kakashi vs Minato?


I know you didnt tag me and I havent judged before, but I wouldnt mind judging this match up if you lack a final judge, if you both would think Im fit. English isnt my first language but I'll do my best and autocorrect helps too I suppose.

It is WA Kakashi vs Hokage Minato, right? Just to be sure. Not the other way around :")

Most people think it is a very one sided match, blitz or spite, but I could see both win actually, especially with these stipulations (knowledge, restrictions).


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

Soul said:


> I challenge @Mad Scientist to a SRA Naruto vs SRA Sasuke match (or just propose another match that's close as per canon). Maximum of 250 words. My request is also that there is only one judge, @Mad Scientist himself.






Ludi said:


> I know you didnt tag me and I havent judged before, but I wouldnt mind judging this match up if you lack a final judge, if you both would think Im fit. English isnt my first language but I'll do my best and autocorrect helps too I suppose.
> 
> It is WA Kakashi vs Hokage Minato, right? Just to be sure. Not the other way around :")
> 
> Most people think it is a very one sided match, blitz or spite, but I could see both win actually, especially with these stipulations (knowledge, restrictions).


Actually you would be awesome. You're well-spoken and seem to be neutral from everything I've seen. This would also be a good opportunity and I'm sure troc will be fine with that.


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 5, 2020)

You can add me but I’d rather be you guys’ last option.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> You can add me but I’d rather be you guys’ last option.


Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

@t0xeus @Mawt
Well, I think we have at least three judges now (Soul, Ayala, Ludi), so let's get this show started!

Thanks

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> and I'm sure troc will be fine with that.


Yup, no problems here, since we have three I guess we can set up the match?
Tho I'll only be able to post the opening post, I'll do the rebuttal to your opening after having slept lol


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## Ludi (Aug 5, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Yup, no problems here, since we have three I guess we can set up the match?
> Tho I'll only be able to post the opening post, I'll do the rebuttal to your opening after having slept lol

Reactions: Like 2


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

@t0xeus @Mawt guess we're good to go:


Mad Scientist said:


> *Match:* Hokage Minato (@trocollo) vs WA Kakashi (@Mad Scientist)
> *Location:* Naruto & Bee vs Nagato & Itachi
> *Knowledge:* None
> *Distance:* 15 m
> ...


Judges:
@Ayala @Soul @Ludi

Criteria for the judges:
General guidelines are:
*Spoiler*: __ 





Analysis (The level of thinking and analysis)
Creativity (The creativity)
Structure (The structure/flow of argument/Visually appealing)
Factual (Are they using logical/factual contents from the manga?)
Persuasiveness (How persuasive were they? Did they convince you?)

On the basis of S, A, B, C (+/-)

For example:
*Analysis - S+*
(Followed by reason - How far did they go to analyse a situation? The level of thinking and detail?)

*Creativity - A-*
(Followed by reason - New methods of winning that you didn't previously thought of? Combinations that you didn't know existed?)

*Structure - B+*
(Followed by reason)

*Factual - C-*
(Followed by reason - Point out things you see seriously wrong. Point out on things you didn't previously know. )

*Persuasiveness - S+*
(Followed by reason - Did you change your mind on the match up? Did you gain a new perspective?)




But we'd like you to focus on how good is the "proof":


trocollo said:


> Conditions I'd like for them to be more centered around how strong the argument is, and less about the "presenting" part (wich I'll basically ignore lol, tho I know you dedicate time to that, ence feel free to chose any judge since I'm already asking this)





Mad Scientist said:


> That's fine. I don't care about the presenting part either, I think judges should just focus on the quality of the argument.


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## trocollo (Aug 5, 2020)

Well seems like both of them are offline, then guess I'll also take my daily free trial of death and we'll see back in a bunch of hours


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Yeah, I'll make the thread for you guys.

@SakuraLover16 Are you fine judging the match between Hi no Ishi and myself?


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## SakuraLover16 (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> Yeah, I'll make the thread for you guys.
> 
> @SakuraLover16 Are you fine judging the match between Hi no Ishi and myself?


Sure if you need me I work 12 hours Friday though.


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Sure if you need me I work 12 hours Friday though.


That's fine. 

Final call can we get one more judge out of you guys?

@ShinAkuma
@The_Conqueror
@Shark
@WorldsStrongest
@Orochimaruwantsyourbody
@FlamingRain 
@Veracity

Reactions: Like 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> That's fine.
> 
> Final call can we get one more judge out of you guys?
> 
> ...


Im not gonna have the time to judge shit on the weekend


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Im not gonna have the time to judge shit on the weekend


Will you have enough time to judge on the weekday (monday/tuesday)


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## Soul (Aug 5, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


>



Sounds like a yes to me. Let me know when you are available.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kisame (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> That's fine.
> 
> Final call can we get one more judge out of you guys?
> 
> ...


I don't mind judging the debate, but 2 rebuttals is kinda tiring for me (your last debate took me several hours to post a verdict which was exhausting). 

If no one else is willing to take it then you can hit me up after if you'd like.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lyren (Aug 5, 2020)

Kisame curbfodderstomps


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

@Hi no Ishi You fine with 1 rebuttal? I sorta agree with Shark that two rebuttals can get a little tiresome. To compensate, we could make it so that each post gets 2000 words (as a cap). 2000 words and 2 posts (1 intro, 1 rebuttal) sounds good imo to cover the full extent of Kisame/Gaara's abilities.


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 5, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @Hi no Ishi You fine with 1 rebuttal? I sorta agree with Shark that two rebuttals can get a little tiresome. To compensate, we could make it so that each post gets 2000 words (as a cap). 2000 words and 2 posts (1 intro, 1 rebuttal) sounds good imo to cover the full extent of Kisame/Gaara's abilities.


That works for me!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mawt (Aug 5, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> That works for me!


In that case, you want me to make the thread? So far we have to judges (SakuraLover and trocollo). We have Shark as a backup third judge.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 5, 2020)

Soul said:


> Sounds like a yes to me. Let me know when you are available.


Sounds interesting for sure. I'm ready any time!


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## trocollo (Aug 6, 2020)

@Mad Scientist Finally everything is ready lol, so can I go and post my OP or you prefer to set a time where both of us post it?


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## trocollo (Aug 6, 2020)

Ok I actually got busy, so I'll post it now hoping it's not a problem


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## Sufex (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I'll tag some more people who I think would be good: @DaVizWiz @blk @~Kakashi~ @Sufex @Orochimaru op @SakuraLover16 @BringerOfChaos @Beyonce
> 
> Any of you interested in judging a match, 2000 words, Kakashi vs Minato?


Away from home atm so wouldn't be able  but tl be reliant, but thanks bro !


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 6, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Ok I actually got busy, so I'll post it now hoping it's not a problem


Nice!

I won't even look at the thread until I'm ready to post.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Sounds interesting for sure. I'm ready any time!



Sure, let's do it after your current match is over.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 6, 2020)

Soul said:


> Sure, let's do it after your current match is over.


Which character will you be arguing for?


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Which character will you be arguing for?



I can do either, they are both pretty good. Sasuke would be easier since he won, so if you want me to select one I'd go for him.


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 6, 2020)

Soul said:


> I can do either, they are both pretty good. Sasuke would be easier since he won, so if you want me to select one I'd go for him.


I'll debate for the The Number One Hyperactive, Knucklehead Ninja


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I'll debate for the The Number One Hyperactive, Knucklehead Ninja



I picked first, so you should select location and distance


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 6, 2020)

Soul said:


> I picked first, so you should select location and distance


Tenchi Bridge, 10 metres sounds good to me.


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Tenchi Bridge, 10 metres sounds good to me.



Cool. It's settled then.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trocollo (Aug 6, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Nice!
> 
> I won't even look at the thread until I'm ready to post.


My bad then, I overthinked it cause I thought you also already had it ready and since my day's time got taken off I posted it before closing the PC

Anyway I don't mind if you look at it since I don't really care about the competion but only about a debate (not even sure what would advantage you from reading it tbh), though I respect your fairness towards the match and towards me


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

trocollo said:


> Anyway I don't mind if you look at it since I don't really care about the competion



TAKE THAT BACK


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## trocollo (Aug 6, 2020)

Soul said:


> TAKE THAT BACK


I mean as a vs, I care about it for the debate, I just don't care about making the objective to win, as not looking at one argument to somehow make a better one yourself is something you do to win, while normally you look at the other one argument to understand the point of view of the other and see how to express better your own, to improve the understanding part


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## Soul (Aug 6, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I mean as a vs, I care about it for the debate, I just don't care about making the objective to win, as not looking at one argument to somehow make a better one yourself is something you do to win, while normally you look at the other one argument to understand the point of view of the other and see how to express better your own, to improve the understanding part



Good save

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Aug 12, 2020)

Let's get a 2vs2 going.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mad Scientist (Aug 12, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Let's get a 2vs2 going.


Sounds good.

I'll be happy to judge.


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## Hi no Ishi (Aug 20, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Let's get a 2vs2 going.


I'm down whenever my current match is over finally!


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## Zembie (Aug 20, 2020)

I can try and judge if people want.


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## Troyse22 (Sep 3, 2020)

Someone should do a formal debate its been a while


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## Zembie (Sep 5, 2020)

No new matches


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## t0xeus (Sep 5, 2020)

Zembie said:


> No new matches


>tfw you stop using Tinder since nobody talks there to you and move on to Naruto Forum only to find out nobody wants to talk to you on here either


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## Lyren (Sep 5, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> >tfw you stop using Tinder since nobody talks there to you and move on to Naruto Forum only to find out nobody wants to talk to you on here either


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## t0xeus (Sep 5, 2020)

Lyren said:


>


Don't worry bae, I was just making a joke.


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 8, 2020)

Anyone wanna have a match? 

Not interested in overargued characterlike the Sannin or Itachi but I'm down for almost any other match up!

I'm oj a streak right now so I'm ready!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Anyone wanna have a match?
> 
> Not interested in overargued characterlike the Sannin or Itachi but I'm down for almost any other match up!
> 
> I'm oj a streak right now so I'm ready!


Sounds fun, sadly I'm only willing to debate Elite Kage characters and above. I can do judging tho if you find a second person.


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

Zembie said:


> Sounds fun, sadly I'm only willing to debate Elite Kage characters and above. I can do judging tho if you find a second person.


What characters do you have on that list?


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> What characters do you have on that list?


Edo Itachi, KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke, MS Obito, Tobirama, Minato, Kabuto (SM), BM Bee, Pain

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

Zembie said:


> Edo Itachi, KCM Naruto, EMS Sasuke, MS Obito, Tobirama, Minato, Kabuto (SM), BM Bee, Pain


I'm down for most of those matchups!

KCM Naruto vs Pain, Killer B Vs Pain, Tobirama Vs Naruto, Sasuke vs Tobirama, Minato vs Kabuto, Pain Vs Kabuto etc there is a lot to work with here! Or any two of them vs a founder tier or one of them vs two Average/Mid Kage if you're feeling fancy.


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I'm down for most of those matchups!
> 
> KCM Naruto vs Pain, Killer B Vs Pain, Tobirama Vs Naruto, Sasuke vs Tobirama, Minato vs Kabuto, Pain Vs Kabuto etc there is a lot to work with here! Or any two of them vs a founder tier or one of them vs two Average/Mid Kage if you're feeling fancy.


Honestly Pain vs Kabuto sounds good.


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

Zembie said:


> Honestly Pain vs Kabuto sounds good.


I'm down to do it either way but can I have 6POP? 
(He is my favorite villain!)

It would be a good fight either way though!

Let's say 

Location: Valley of the End Headstones (plenty of inorganic matter around) 
Knowledge: None
Killing Intent but in character


If that works for you?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> I'm down to do it either way but can I have 6POP?
> (He is my favorite villain!)
> 
> It would be a good fight either way though!
> ...


Sure, I like Pain as well (if it wasn't obvious), but Kabuto works for me as well as I like him quite a bit. Glad you gave it no knowledge as manga knowledge would lead to a dismantlement of the paths. Let's get something straight, Kabuto only has to defeat the six paths, right? Nagato isn't included.


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

Zembie said:


> Sure, I like Pain as well (if it wasn't obvious), but Kabuto works for me as well as I like him quite a bit. Glad you gave it no knowledge as manga knowledge would lead to a dismantlement of the paths. Let's get something straight, Kabuto only has to defeat the six paths, right? Nagato isn't included.


Agreed. I treat 6PoP fights like Nagato doesn't exist usually.

Keeps down the "How far does Deva have to run to use CT" or "Ha you beat the Six now face Nagato! I win mid diff!" Arguments  hehe.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> Agreed. I treat 6PoP fights like Nagato doesn't exist usually.
> 
> Keeps down the "How far does Deva have to run to use CT" or "Ha you beat the Six now face Nagato! I win mid diff!" Arguments  hehe.


Sounds fair.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

@Mawt @t0xeus 

Can we get a SM Kabuto ( @Zembie ) vs 6PoP (@Hi no Ishi ) match going with 


Hi no Ishi said:


> Location: Valley of the End Headstones
> Knowledge: None
> Killing Intent but in character



These conditions?


@ShinAkuma 
@Hina uzumaki 
@trocollo 
@Shark 
@Topace 
@Orochimaruwantsyourbody 
@MShadows 


Can any of yall Judge?

3 to 5 of yall would be great!


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## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

@WorldsStrongest 
@Turrin 
@Aegon Targaryen 
@The_Conqueror 
@Grinningfox 
@Sufex 


Anyone want to be a judge?


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## Turrin (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @WorldsStrongest
> @Turrin
> @Aegon Targaryen
> @The_Conqueror
> ...


Not to interested in the match sorry


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## Grinningfox (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @WorldsStrongest
> @Turrin
> @Aegon Targaryen
> @The_Conqueror
> ...


I’ll do it hombre


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## trocollo (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @Mawt @t0xeus
> 
> Can we get a SM Kabuto ( @Zembie ) vs 6PoP (@Hi no Ishi ) match going with
> 
> ...


Sure, but as a reserve judge, cause:
1. I'll have the time to make the judgement only at the end of this month
2. While I think I'm able to give an unbiased judgement basing myself only on the arguments made, I also value SM Kabuto much lower than pretty much everyone else here, so if judges who start from a more neutral base for this match-up are avaible I'd give them precedence

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @Mawt @t0xeus
> 
> Can we get a SM Kabuto ( @Zembie ) vs 6PoP (@Hi no Ishi ) match going with
> 
> ...


Restrictions on Edo Tensei I suppose? And anything else?

And what starting distance?


----------



## trocollo (Sep 9, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Restrictions on Edo Tensei I suppose? And anything else?


There's also Nagato being an outsude entity, so no 7th pain secret/figther and no deva getting nearer to him to use BT


----------



## Orochimaruwantsyourbody (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @Mawt @t0xeus
> 
> Can we get a SM Kabuto ( @Zembie ) vs 6PoP (@Hi no Ishi ) match going with
> 
> ...


Normally I turn these things down because I don’t think I can be impartial about a matchup, but I don’t have a strong opinion on the matchup and like both posters, so I guess I’m in.


----------



## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Orochimaruwantsyourbody said:


> Normally I turn these things down because I don’t think I can be impartial about a matchup, but I don’t have a strong opinion on the matchup and like both posters, so I guess I’m in.


You lyin but I still love u


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Restrictions on Edo Tensei I suppose? And anything else?
> 
> And what starting distance?


No Edo Tensei, The Paths neither dont need Nagato to use jutsu and he won't show up to fight either, distance is from head to head.


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## Sufex (Sep 9, 2020)

You worked out the rules?  may be interested if i have the time


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

Sufex said:


> You worked out the rules?  may be interested if i have the time



Rules are set! Just gathering Judges!


----------



## Hi no Ishi (Sep 9, 2020)

@Zembie @t0xeus looks like we have @Grinningfox @Orochimaruwantsyourbody and @Sufex as judges and @trocollo as a reserve.

Sound good?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zembie (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi no Ishi said:


> @Zembie @t0xeus looks like we have @Grinningfox @Orochimaruwantsyourbody and @Sufex as judges and @trocollo as a reserve.
> 
> Sound good?


Sounds perfe


----------



## jesusus (Sep 26, 2020)

Challenger: Anyone, but I'd prefer a fellow University colleague as they are far more versed on this subject than the average civilian.
Match: Base Jiraiya vs. All of Fiction
Location: Numagothian Realm
Knowledge: To make this fair since Jiraiya is omniscient, all-knowing and most importantly benevolent, I will allow full knowledge to All of Fiction, however useless that might be
Distance: 2717606q.9e+ 92.125^426173∫ ∫ ∫ 6569yq 736d nonagintacentillion gigaparsecs
Restrictions: None

Ready when you are.


----------



## jesusus (Sep 30, 2020)

No one wants to debate?


----------



## Ayala (Sep 30, 2020)

jesusus said:


> Challenger: Anyone, but I'd prefer a fellow University colleague as they are far more versed on this subject than the average civilian.
> Match: Base Jiraiya vs. All of Fiction
> Location: Numagothian Realm
> Knowledge: To make this fair since Jiraiya is omniscient, all-knowing and most importantly benevolent, I will allow full knowledge to All of Fiction, however useless that might be
> ...



Challenge accepted


----------



## jesusus (Sep 30, 2020)

Who wants to judge?


----------



## Ayala (Oct 1, 2020)

I can see why no one would take on such a huge responsability, they all scared to judge base Jman vs all fiction


----------



## Sloan (Oct 1, 2020)

@The Great One 

BoS Sasuke Vs Yamato/Sakura/Naruto ?

Kirin restricted 

:>


*Spoiler*: __ 



Jus playin


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 6, 2020)

Sloan said:


> @The Great One
> 
> BoS Sasuke Vs Yamato/Sakura/Naruto ?
> 
> ...



I would unironically love a fight involving Snake Sasuke and a member of Team 7 (be it Kakashi or Naruto).


----------



## Raiken (Oct 8, 2020)

Anyone want to challenge me to KCM1 Naruto VS EMS Sasuke with me battling for Naruto?


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 8, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Anyone want to challenge me to KCM1 Naruto VS EMS Sasuke with me battling for Naruto?



Sure, dawg. I'd be happy to debate for Sasuke, provided he's limited to his feats against the Ten-Tails.

If he had Perfect Susano'o or his TT Obito feats, it might be a little too much...


----------



## Raiken (Oct 8, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure, dawg. I'd be happy to debate for Sasuke, provided he's limited to his feats against the Ten-Tails.
> 
> If he had Perfect Susano'o or his TT Obito feats, it might be a little too much...


Yeah, it would be Juubi fight Sasuke and all previous feats & showings.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 8, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Yeah, it would be Juubi fight Sasuke and all previous feats & showings.



Awesome.


----------



## Raiken (Oct 8, 2020)

*I challenge : @Aegon Targaryen

Match:* KCM1 Naruto "Post-Kurama Coop" VS EMS Sasuke "Pre-Kyuubi Chakra Cloak"
*Location: *Juubi Battlefield
*Knowledge: *In Character for the time. Imagine they fought after this moment.

*Distance: *100m
*Restrictions:
Sasuke - Kyuubi Chakra Cloak, Giant Full-Body V3 Susano'o, PS
Naruto - KCM1+SM, BM, BSM*

Question - Do you think Sasuke should be allowed to use a small / normal sized Full-Body Susano'o like Madara used against the Gokage & Bijuu's? I don't see why not myself. So based on me being fine with it, you'll obviously be fine with it. So it's agreed aha.


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 8, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> *I challenge : @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> Match:* KCM1 Naruto "Post-Kurama Coop" VS EMS Sasuke "Pre-Kyuubi Chakra Cloak"
> *Location: *Juubi Battlefield
> ...



Challenge accepted. This looks perfectly reasonable. 

Pretty sure the Full-Body Susano'o is the big Susano'o, but I'm fine omitting it tbh.


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## Raiken (Oct 9, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Challenge accepted. This looks perfectly reasonable.
> 
> Pretty sure the Full-Body Susano'o is the big Susano'o, but I'm fine omitting it tbh.


The Full Body V3 Madara used against the Gokage & Bijuu is much smaller than the Full Body V3 Sasuke used along-side BSM Naruto.

But Okidoke, leaving it out would save any speculation at least that way.


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## t0xeus (Oct 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Challenge accepted. This looks perfectly reasonable.
> 
> Pretty sure the Full-Body Susano'o is the big Susano'o, but I'm fine omitting it tbh.





Cryorex said:


> The Full Body V3 Madara used against the Gokage & Bijuu is much smaller than the Full Body V3 Sasuke used along-side BSM Naruto.
> 
> But Okidoke, leaving it out would save any speculation at least that way.


Do you have any tips / suggestions for the judges or do you want to leave it to me completely to pick them (obviously you'll get a chance to confirm or veto the picks)?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 10, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Do you have any tips / suggestions for the judges or do you want to leave it to me completely to pick them (obviously you'll get a chance to confirm or veto the picks)?



Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.


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## Troyse22 (Oct 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.





Ooo that'd be a fun one to judge, I'm down

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raiken (Oct 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.


Based on my memory of these posters. I don't think I'd have a problem with this.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 10, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> Based on my memory of these posters. I don't think I'd have a problem with this.



Dope.


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## Sloan (Oct 10, 2020)

Sure I'll judge.  Should be a good match.


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## Sloan (Oct 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.



Shark is now @Kisame


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 10, 2020)

Sloan said:


> Shark is now @Kisame



My bad. @Kisame


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## trocollo (Oct 10, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.


I'm down for it, tho wanna say from now that if the debate ends around november I may be slow in the replyes

Reactions: Like 1


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## jesusus (Oct 14, 2020)

Anyone want to debate WA Sakura vs SSG Goku?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 14, 2020)

@Cryorex When do you want to do it?


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 20, 2020)

ill debate anyone on this i take orochimaru


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## Lyren (Oct 20, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Cryorex When do you want to do it?


Unfortunately my boi Cryo is banned for a week

Reactions: Like 1


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 22, 2020)

whos the best debater on the NBD all my debates that ive had on the battledome have been stomps ive taken 2v1s and won 
take me to ur king im getting bored on here


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## Artistwannabe (Oct 22, 2020)

Senin said:


> whos the best debater on the NBD all my debates that ive had on the battledome have been stomps ive taken 2v1s and won
> take me to ur king im getting bored on here


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 22, 2020)

dont worry u will know me very soon


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## Artistwannabe (Oct 22, 2020)

Senin said:


> dont worry u will know me very soon


What? Already got my address?


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 22, 2020)

Senin said:


> whos the best debater on the NBD all my debates that ive had on the battledome have been stomps ive taken 2v1s and won
> take me to ur king im getting bored on here


If there's anyone I'd dub the king of debating on NF, it's either Hasan or Santoryu.




 was my list on Mar 2020:

Hasan
t0xeus
Crimson Flam3s

Santoryu
Jad
DaVizWiz
Ayala
Braiyan
Soul
UchihaX28
LostSelf
MaruUchiha
Architect
Kokodeshide
Lee-Sensei
~Kakashi~
blk
NamesClassified
Blu-ray
Raikiri19
Now, I'd have to add Illusory and ZmkSc to that list. Mawt might need to be added too. I'd move Santoryu up to #2.

The one with the most stamina while maintaining politeness is certainly trocollo, so he'd be added to the Honourable Mentions, as well as Beyonce who I've seen make some good posts.

I feel like Troyse22 could make it to the Honourable Mentions for taking me on in a formal debate (albeit it never finished) and making good points here and there. Not many people have the guts to do that, even when I offer them supposedly "one-sided" matches in their favour. Soldierofficial could make it too if he was actually not trolling. MShadows would probably be there too. jesusus would be a definite addition as well. I'm sure there are others.

One mistake I made was adding WorldsStrongest and Turrin to the Honourable Mentions. WorldsStrongest doesn't care about the truth anymore (saying shit like Hirudora wouldn't kill Gamabunta) and was always rather mean and believed CS2 Hebi Sasuke was anywhere near 7G Gai in speed, etc. Turrin cares about the truth to some extent, but generally foregoes it at the drop of a hat when Kakashi and Gai, two phenomenal characters in Naruto, are brought into the discussion. As much as I dislike Hi no Ishi for what he did (supporting WorldsStrongest in a fallacious attempt to discredit me), he is objectively a good debater so he'd remain as an honourable mention.

That's about all I have to say on that. It's just one guy's opinion on the internet about some other people on the internet.


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> If there's anyone I'd dub the king of debating on NF, it's either Hasan or Santoryu.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i will take all thier heads


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 22, 2020)

Senin said:


> i will take all thier heads


Pretty sure they'd mess you up


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Pretty sure they'd mess you up


tell all of them to debate me 
im going from number 10 and working my way up


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## Zembie (Oct 22, 2020)

Is this like a weird ARG/LARP kinda thing?


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## WorldsStrongest (Oct 22, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> One mistake I made was adding WorldsStrongest and Turrin to the Honourable Mentions.


Yeah I agree

The fact Im not your number 1 considering all the Ls Ive handed you really doesnt make sense

Unless you consider yourself nowhere near the top...Then i guess it fits


Mad Scientist said:


> WorldsStrongest doesn't care about the truth anymore (saying shit like Hirudora wouldn't kill Gamabunta)


Havent seen anyone post any proof that Kisames durability is tiers greater than Buntas 

Still havent

Youd rather rate and run out of the thread then actually address the holes in your own logic as always


Mad Scientist said:


> was always rather mean


Actually bud thatd be you

When you first started out youd insult me for no reason and then dip out

you do the same shit now

You just cant handle when people meme you back and complain about it

Always have


Mad Scientist said:


> believed CS2 Hebi Sasuke was anywhere near 7G Gai in speed,


Said same speed TIER

With Gai being faster

Still havent seen any arguments from you or anyone else to the contrary  

Again you just bitch moan and complain as opposed to actually debating 

And CS2 amped Hebi being in 7G Gais speed tier is nowhere near as retarded as the belief that 7G Gai is BSM+ or Jj tier in speed or that MS kakashi can defeat Madara or Hashirama 1v1

Youre the fucking problem in any masters equation, you do know that right?


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## blk (Oct 22, 2020)

Senin said:


> tell all of them to debate me
> im going from number 10 and working my way up



You could start by posting in normal threads ya know...


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 23, 2020)

@t0xeus debate me  inverse naruto


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## Mawt (Oct 23, 2020)

How are these conditions?

Base Jiraiya (me) vs Kaguya (Senin)

Restrictions: None
Knowledge: Full for Kaguya, none for Jiraiya
Mindset: IC

We can go for 2 posts with only 100 words each. Whoever makes the best quality argument wins (which will be me).

How does that sound @Senin?


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 23, 2020)

Mawt said:


> How are these conditions?
> 
> Base Jiraiya (me) vs Kaguya (Senin)
> 
> ...


is someone gonna make a thread? This is a formal debate right


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## Mawt (Oct 23, 2020)

Senin said:


> is someone gonna make a thread? This is a formal debate right


T0xeus will make the thread. Get ready to have your booty clapped by my intellectualism.


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 23, 2020)

Mawt said:


> T0xeus will make the thread. Get ready to have your booty clapped by my intellectualism.


when is he going to make it


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## Sufex (Oct 24, 2020)

All this talk and no action



Can someone take this guy down already?


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## blk (Oct 24, 2020)

The fun fact is that if the scaling of Urashiki >= adult Sasuke is taken seriously... then base Jman has a legitimate chance lol (since he would have high God Tier stas & Jutsu potency from his cqc feats against him and from injuring Urashiki with his abilities... again granted that such scaling is taken at face value, which it shouldn't ofc)...


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 25, 2020)

Sufex said:


> All this talk and no action
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone take this guy down already?



Who? 

Btw, I would like to debate someone hopefully two weeks later, preferably one of the Sanninband.

I want to debate on behalf of* Orochimaru* (no zombies, but healthy).

Any takers?

@FlamingRain
@Orochimaru op
@Lyren
@Mithos
@Shazam
@ThirdRidoku (you're probably not a 'Band member but still would love to debate you)
@trocollo (same as Third, not a 'Band member but would love to debate you)
@WorldsStrongest (someone tag him so he sees this, I'm on his ignore list)


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## trocollo (Oct 25, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Who?
> 
> Btw, I would like to debate someone hopefully two weeks later, preferably one of the Sanninband.
> 
> ...


I'd also like to debate you but I do formal debates during free months like august, principarly cause of the "ok today I'm gonna sit down and write this thing" mindset that I lose when I get other things to do irl


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 25, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I'd also like to debate you but I do formal debates during free months like august, principarly cause of the "ok today I'm gonna sit down and write this thing" mindset that I lose when I get other things to do irl



Fair enough, bro!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Shazam (Oct 25, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Who?
> 
> Btw, I would like to debate someone hopefully two weeks later, preferably one of the Sanninband.
> 
> ...



Orochimaru vs Tsunade or Jiraiya?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 25, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Orochimaru vs Tsunade or Jiraiya?



Pick anyone you want.


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## Shazam (Oct 25, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Pick anyone you want.



Orochimaru wins if he isnt restricted. Loses if he is imo. He needs a healthy host and ET to win more times than not.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Oct 25, 2020)

Shazam said:


> Orochimaru wins if he isnt restricted. Loses if he is imo. He needs a healthy host and ET to win more times than not.



Dawg, it's a debate. I'll take Orochimaru without zombies - you can pick whoever you like, even Jiraiya.


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 25, 2020)

@Hasan
pain vs a4    i think a4 wins
sm naruto(pain arc)vs ms sasuke  i think sasuke wins
edo itachi vs edo nagato  i think itachi wins
edo itachi vs the five kage  i think  itachi wins
EoS sasuke vs 2 eyed madara i think sasuke wins
kakuzu vs jonin minato   i think kakuzu wins
sage jiraya vs sage naruto  i think jiraya wins
killer bee vs alive itachi  i think bee wins

debate me on anyone of them


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 25, 2020)

@Santoryu 
pain vs a4 i think a4 wins
sm naruto(pain arc)vs ms sasuke i think sasuke wins
edo itachi vs edo nagato i think itachi wins
edo itachi vs the five kage i think itachi wins
EoS sasuke vs 2 eyed madara i think sasuke wins
kakuzu vs jonin minato i think kakuzu wins
sage jiraya vs sage naruto i think jiraya wins
killer bee vs alive itachi i think bee wins

pick a topic


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

*I challenge : *@Kisame
*Match:* SM Jiraiya (me) vs WA Kakashi (you) (or vice-versa)
*Location:* Sannin Deadlock
*Knowledge:* Manga
*Distance:* 15 m
*Restrictions:* None


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

God Of Naruto said:


> killer bee vs alive itachi i think bee wins


Sure, if you're serious, we can do this.


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Sure, if you're serious, we can do this.


aight tell someone to set it up


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

God Of Naruto said:


> aight tell someone to set it up


@t0xeus Can you set this up please?


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## t0xeus (Oct 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus Can you set this up please?


Sure but what conditions?

Location, mindset etc


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Sure but what conditions?
> 
> Location, mindset etc


You decide! (please )


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## t0xeus (Oct 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> You decide! (please )


I dont want to be accused of setting it in a way you guys didnt want to tho 

Ill do it only if @God Of Naruto agrees with it

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sloan (Oct 26, 2020)

God of Naruto about to solo his next victim :x


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I dont want to be accused of setting it in a way you guys didnt want to tho
> 
> Ill do it only if @God Of Naruto agrees with it


they have their regular knowledge, no restrictions, random location , bloodlusted


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I dont want to be accused of setting it in a way you guys didnt want to tho
> 
> Ill do it only if @God Of Naruto agrees with it





God Of Naruto said:


> they have their regular knowledge, no restrictions, random location , bloodlusted


Okay let's go for Sannin Deadlock, bloodlusted, Manga, no restrictions, 15 m

Reactions: Informative 1


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Okay let's go for Sannin Deadlock, bloodlusted, Manga, no restrictions, 15 m


lets do 100m apart


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

God Of Naruto said:


> lets do 100m apart


okie


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

@t0xeus set it up


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## Mawt (Oct 26, 2020)

@God Of Naruto got slapped so hard by me in our formal debate to the point he ran away and is now looking for a match to reclaim his shattered pride.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sloan (Oct 26, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @God Of Naruto got slapped so hard by me in our formal debate to the point he ran away and is now looking for a match to reclaim his shattered pride.



God of Naruto after your debate


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

Mawt said:


> @God Of Naruto got slapped so hard by me in our formal debate to the point he ran away and is now looking for a match to reclaim his shattered pride.


I beat the fuck out of u and just let people judge it I wasn't gonna argue with someone that's mentally incapable


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

@Mad Scientist is there someone else that can set up the debate im tired of waiting its been like 3 hrs


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 26, 2020)

God Of Naruto said:


> @Mad Scientist is there someone else that can set up the debate im tired of waiting its been like 3 hrs


Err...

I can do it.

It doesn't have to be in the challenger arena tbf.


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## God Of Naruto (Oct 26, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Err...
> 
> I can do it.
> 
> It doesn't have to be in the challenger arena tbf.


Aight then just set it up


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 27, 2020)

@t0xeus Can you set up the match between me and @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 please?

7G Gai (me) vs SM Hashirama (MagicMiraclesOfWater65)

Konoha Crater
15 m
IC
Manga knowledge
No restrictions

*Judges:* Atlantic Storm, Soul, Ludi

(NB: Judges should try to be as objective as possible)

Final Score Breakdown

Audience/Voters - 20%
Judges - 30%
Opposition self critique - 50% (with every explicit ignore of a contentious point or blatant inability to manifest a rebuttal against a specific point asserted by the opposition subsequently leads to a proportional reduction in the totality percentage allocation that's pertinent to all points manifested by either opposition.)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## t0xeus (Oct 27, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus Can you set up the match between me and @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 please?
> 
> 7G Gai (me) vs SM Hashirama (MagicMiraclesOfWater65)
> 
> ...


Just for clarity purposes so I know whether to look for other judges or not, did you ask the judges you selected if they're in or not? 

If not, can you guys please confirm if you're willing to judge here? 

@Atlantic Storm @Soul @Ludi

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Atlantic Storm (Oct 27, 2020)

sure

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ludi (Oct 27, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Just for clarity purposes so I know whether to look for other judges or not, did you ask the judges you selected if they're in or not?
> 
> If not, can you guys please confirm if you're willing to judge here?
> 
> @Atlantic Storm @Soul @Ludi


Sure

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soul (Oct 27, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Just for clarity purposes so I know whether to look for other judges or not, did you ask the judges you selected if they're in or not?
> 
> If not, can you guys please confirm if you're willing to judge here?
> 
> @Atlantic Storm @Soul @Ludi



I am pretty busy this next month or two, will sit this one out.


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 30, 2020)

@Veracity @blk
Wanna judge?


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## blk (Oct 30, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Veracity @blk
> Wanna judge?



Thanks for the mention mate, but lately i'm kinda busy so i'll have to decline unfortunately..


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 30, 2020)

@Stonaem Would you be up for judging?


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## Veracity (Oct 30, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Veracity @blk
> Wanna judge?



Thanks for the mention as well but ever since my college semester started up, I’ve been more focused on school and have less time for NF.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stonaem (Oct 31, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Stonaem Would you be up for judging?


Hope im not too late

Details?


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 31, 2020)

Stonaem said:


> Hope im not too late
> 
> Details?


You would be judging a match between me and MagicalMiraclesOfWater65, it's 7G Gai vs SM Hashirama? It's roughly 2000-3000 words overall per poster. I mean I don't think it has to be that long if that's better for you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Stonaem (Oct 31, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> You would be judging a match between me and MagicalMiraclesOfWater65, it's 7G Gai vs SM Hashirama? It's roughly 2000-3000 words overall per poster. I mean I don't think it has to be that long if that's better for you.


Im okay with any word count

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Oct 31, 2020)

Stonaem said:


> Im okay with any word count


Thanks man, I wish I could rep you.

@t0xeus Looks like we're ready.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stonaem (Oct 31, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Thanks man, I wish I could rep you.
> 
> @t0xeus Looks like we're ready.


Likewise

Just tag me in the thread

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stonaem (Oct 31, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> Thanks man, I wish I could rep you.
> 
> @t0xeus Looks like we're ready.


Darn it!

I just realised i will be unavailable to judge due to real life business. Sorry man, would have liked to otherwise.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 1, 2020)

Stonaem said:


> Darn it!
> 
> I just realised i will be unavailable to judge due to real life business. Sorry man, would have liked to otherwise.


Not a problem!

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 1, 2020)

@Hina uzumaki @ThirdRidoku Care to judge?

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Nov 1, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @Hina uzumaki @ThirdRidoku Care to judge?


Sorry MS

I'm really busy.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 1, 2020)

Wait a second, @Kisame You're a really good judge sometimes, would you be up for this?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 1, 2020)

So, I'm going to go ahead and follow through on my insanity. @Aegon Targaryen , pray for me 

*I challenge : *@Speedyamell 
*Match:* [Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto]
*Location: * Sannin Deadlock
*Knowledge: Manga
Distance: 15m
Restrictions: None. Balls to the wall fight. *

Anyone who wants to judge can do so, I don't have any preferences.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 1, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> So, I'm going to go ahead and follow through on my insanity. @Aegon Targaryen , pray for me
> 
> *I challenge : *@Speedyamell
> *Match:* [Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto]
> ...


@Speedyamell Well I'm down to judge.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> So, I'm going to go ahead and follow through on my insanity. @Aegon Targaryen , pray for me
> 
> *I challenge : *@Speedyamell
> *Match:* [Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto]
> ...


Oh. you were serious??


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 2, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen This reminds me of the BM Choji vs Mei debate I'll never have with Turrin.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Oh. you were serious??


Yeah? Its not only a test of my debating skill, it'll give me something to do besides my college homework. Anything to get away from debugging a website

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Yeah? Its not only a test of my debating skill, it'll give me something to do besides my college homework. Anything to get away from debugging a website



I hate to be that guy, but you might wanna get the debugging part done first lol.

Trust me - procrastination sucks. I literally stayed up all night to finish some shit that's due today.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I hate to be that guy, but you might wanna get the debugging part done first lol.
> 
> Trust me - procrastination sucks. I literally stayed up all night to finish some shit that's due today.


Its not due till the 8th 

I just want to do something fun before it sucks my soul out.

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Its not due till the 8th
> 
> I just want to do something fun before it sucks my soul out.


Breathe.. everything breathe..
If it's a lot of work I'm down to wait till you're free and ready

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Breathe.. everything breathe..
> If it's a lot of work I'm down to wait till you're free and ready


Its not a lot of work (I only have 3 classes atm, all online). Its just boring, lul. I can go anytime.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Its not a lot of work (I only have 3 classes atm, all online). Its just boring, lul. I can go anytime.


Alright then.. so how does this work?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Alright then.. so how does this work?


Are you asking me how it works in general?


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> Are you asking me how it works in general?


Yeah. haven't actually done one of these before so..

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Yeah. haven't actually done one of these before so..


@t0xeus can probably explain it better, but its not too different from regular debating (minus the obvious trolling and baiting). A thread is made, there's a word count for opening posts and rebuttals (things like knowledge and location are set before the debate begins). You present whatever evidence you have for the character you're arguing, and try to punch holes in the arguments of your opponent. 

A panel of judges (usually around 3 people) then decides who was more convincing and casts their vote for that person.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Yeah. haven't actually done one of these before so..


Yeah what BHI said. I also suggest going through some of the finished debates to get a knack of how it works
Like  one

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> @t0xeus can probably explain it better, but its not too different from regular debating (minus the obvious trolling and baiting). A thread is made, there's a word count for opening posts and rebuttals (things like knowledge and location are set before the debate begins). You present whatever evidence you have for the character you're arguing, and try to punch holes in the arguments of your opponent.
> 
> A panel of judges (usually around 3 people) then decides who was more convincing and casts their vote for that person.


Alright! Should be a fun new experience

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 2, 2020)

I think @SakuraLover16 and @Mithos would be great judges for this.

Oh wait, SL16 is a sakura fan... might be biased, idk.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I also suggest going through some of the finished debates to get a knack of how it works
> Like  one


Yikes.. I'm probably not gonna win this, but what the heck no harm in doing it


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Yikes.. I'm probably not gonna win this, but what the heck no harm in doing it


You underestimate my shitty fact-finding.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> You underestimate my shitty fact-finding.


Lol. So when does it start?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Lol. So when does it start?


Whenever @t0xeus makes the thread and we find some judges, I suppose. Mad Scientist already volunteered, we need two more judges if we want to be traditional. Tag someone if you'd like them to judge.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 2, 2020)

I think the reason a lot of potential judges aren't volunteering is because they think it'll take a lot of time. So if we narrow it down to 2 posts and 500 words each, that might be better, since then it's not like it'll take much time.

I wonder why more people aren't interested in judging high-class debates? I mean, it's a good opportunity to formally exercise evaluation skills


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## SakuraLover16 (Nov 2, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I think @SakuraLover16 and @Mithos would be great judges for this.
> 
> Oh wait, SL16 is a sakura fan... might be biased, idk.


Don’t worry I’m only extremely biased XD

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 2, 2020)

SakuraLover16 said:


> Don’t worry I’m only extremely biased XD


I'm a Kakashi fan but I am impartial when it comes to judging formal debates. That's why I think you'll be fine, because I think that you're not going to be biased here. I think that posters that are honest with themselves realise that both BM Naruto and Adult Sakura are monsters when it comes to combat abilities; I can personally see it going either way, so I'm rather confident in my ability to be impartial here. But Veracity said that it's not ideal for fans of a character to engage in judging for a match with that character in it, but I honestly think it's fine because, I mean, this is _Narutoforums_. There is no point to dishonesty here.


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## SakuraLover16 (Nov 2, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I'm a Kakashi fan but I am impartial when it comes to judging formal debates. That's why I think you'll be fine, because I think that you're not going to be biased here. I think that posters that are honest with themselves realise that both BM Naruto and Adult Sakura are monsters when it comes to combat abilities; I can personally see it going either way, so I'm rather confident in my ability to be impartial here. But Veracity said that it's not ideal for fans of a character to engage in judging for a match with that character in it, but I honestly think it's fine because, I mean, this is _Narutoforums_. There is no point to dishonesty here.


I can do it if you guys want just remind me. I can still decipher a bad argument when there is one regardless of the character. I should be able to focus better.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lyren (Nov 2, 2020)

Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto is a piece of cake
Good luck @Speedyamell and.. GL to you too @BlackHeartedImp

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 2, 2020)

What's left? Would @trocollo like to judge? Is @t0xeus not able to judge?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Nov 2, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> What's left? Would @trocollo like to judge? Is @t0xeus not able to judge?


I haven't got much time this month so I'll prolly be slow but I can


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

@MHA massive fan and I are tying to have a debate on whether Ei4 can tank Tenpenchi with no damage or not. I said Ei4 gets damaged and MHA says he gets zero.

Can @shark @trocollo @t0xeus @FlamingRain @LostSelf or others judge?

Also @t0xeus can you make the official thread?


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 2, 2020)

Turrin said:


> @MHA massive fan and I are tying to have a debate on whether Ei4 can tank Tenpenchi with no damage or not. I said Ei4 gets damaged and MHA says he gets zero.
> 
> Can @shark @trocollo @t0xeus @FlamingRain @LostSelf or others judge?
> 
> Also @t0xeus can you make the official thread?


Interesting claim
Now to add context gentlemen recall kN1 cloaks received no damage from said attack . Now gents what basis is there to say kn1 cloaks are above A4 RCM and his actual durability ?

@t0xeus @LostSelf


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Interesting claim
> Now to add context gentlemen recall kN1 cloaks received no damage from said attack . Now gents what basis is there to say kn1 cloaks are above A4 RCM and his actual durability ?
> 
> @t0xeus @LostSelf


Im not adding context, that’s your job, and Save it for the official debate thread.


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 2, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Im not adding context, that’s your job, and Save it for the official debate thread.


Your post was hilarious and foolishly misleading you gonna raise a point 
Add context


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Your post was hilarious and foolishly misleading you gonna raise a point
> Add context


I don’t see how it misleads at all.

Your arguing that Ei4 won’t get any damage from Tenpenchi. And I’m arguing that he will.

Your reasoning for that is this whole misguided KN Cloak argument. Which it will be up to you to present in your post outlining your argument.

Anyway  I would suggest 2 post max intro and rebuttal. Probably should keep them to 500-1000 words each


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 2, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I don’t see how it misleads at all.
> 
> Your arguing that Ei4 won’t get any damage from Tenpenchi. And I’m arguing that he will.
> 
> ...


You can make it 50 I dont have many words to waste on it
Kn1 has no outside feats to suggest it can do something RCM can’t 

a circular argument is kn1 > RCM it tanked 10 tails attack. 10 tails attack is strong it almost went through kn1

when neither have any secondary feats to compare to.

Jowever what I will say is KCM naruto was damaged by roshi silly little lava body
So to assume he can give a fodder durability well above his ( as clearly 10 tails attack should be > Roshi lava body ) is rather silly


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> You can make it 50 I dont have many words to waste on it
> Kn1 has no outside feats to suggest it can do something RCM can’t
> 
> a circular argument is kn1 > RCM it tanked 10 tails attack. 10 tails attack is strong it almost went through kn1
> ...


Would you save it for the debate thread. Please try to show proper etiquette.

And I will need 500 words per post. So can we agree to that?


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 2, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Would you save it for the debate thread. Please try to show proper etiquette.
> 
> And I will need 500 words per post. So can we agree to that?


200
That’s the most I can waste my time on the subject . You not happy with that you are free to cry somewhere else 
Trying to exhaust me with lengthy convo we all know I will never bother to read is hardly winning a debate 

bullet points and 200 words take it or leave it


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> 200
> That’s the most I can waste my time on the subject . You not happy with that you are free to cry somewhere else
> Trying to exhaust me with lengthy convo we all know I will never bother to read is hardly winning a debate
> 
> bullet points and 200 words take it or leave it


500 words isn’t a lengthy debate. Most people do 1K. You don’t need to post 500 words, but I don’t see why you would not allow me 500 words which is basically the minimum around here


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 2, 2020)

Turrin said:


> 500 words isn’t a lengthy debate. Most people do 1K. You don’t need to post 500 words, but I don’t see why you would not allow me 500 words which is basically the minimum around here


You are free to post 500 or 10k I’ll stop reading at 200.


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## Turrin (Nov 2, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> You are free to post 500 or 10k I’ll stop reading at 200.


Okay I don’t really care if you read it; that’s up to the judges


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 2, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> I think the reason a lot of potential judges aren't volunteering is because they think it'll take a lot of time. So if we narrow it down to 2 posts and 500 words each, that might be better, since then it's not like it'll take much time.
> 
> I wonder why more people aren't interested in judging high-class debates? I mean, it's a good opportunity to formally exercise evaluation skills


I for one am not going to sit through too thorough a debate. I just think people don't want to sink time into something that's not really as important as the majority of a lot of other activities in their lives.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> @MHA massive fan and I are tying to have a debate on whether Ei4 can tank Tenpenchi with no damage or not. I said Ei4 gets damaged and MHA says he gets zero.
> 
> Can @shark @trocollo @t0xeus @FlamingRain @LostSelf or others judge?
> 
> Also @t0xeus can you make the official thread?


I could do it

tagging shark by his new username @Kisame


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## trocollo (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> @MHA massive fan and I are tying to have a debate on whether Ei4 can tank Tenpenchi with no damage or not. I said Ei4 gets damaged and MHA says he gets zero.
> 
> Can @shark @trocollo @t0xeus @FlamingRain @LostSelf or others judge?
> 
> Also @t0xeus can you make the official thread?


Ok lets do it


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## Kisame (Nov 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I could do it
> 
> tagging shark by his new username @Kisame


Yeah I'm down.


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## Speedyamell (Nov 3, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> So, I'm going to go ahead and follow through on my insanity. @Aegon Targaryen , pray for me
> 
> *I challenge : *@Speedyamell
> *Match:* [Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto]
> ...



@Phenomenon
@Personthing
@michox12
@Orochimaruwantsyourbody
@Sloan
@Blixanoid
Wonder if any of you guys would be interested in judging? We already got a couple.. just need a couple more

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1 | Friendly 3


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## Speedyamell (Nov 3, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen just be mashing the funny rating on everything now

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 3, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> @Aegon Targaryen just be mashing the funny rating on everything now



Just funny things, bro.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Sloan (Nov 3, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> @Phenomenon
> @Personthing
> @michox12
> @Orochimaruwantsyourbody
> ...


I don’t mind judging but I don’t read Boruto so it might be better if someone else that does, does it.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 3, 2020)

Sloan said:


> I don’t mind judging but I don’t read Boruto so it might be better if someone else that does, does it.


Boruto isn't especially relevant here.. and I'm sure I'm supposed to provide the needed evidence anyway


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## Sloan (Nov 3, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Boruto isn't especially relevant here.. and I'm sure I'm supposed to provide the needed evidence anyway


I thot Adult Sakura entailed Boruto, but yea I was considering that as well just wanted to let you know.  If BlackHeartedImp doesn’t mind I’ll judge.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 3, 2020)

@BlackHeartedImp i think it's good to go?
@t0xeus make the thread. @Mad Scientist, @Sloan, and @SakuraLover16 are judges. If @SakuraLover16 ain't allowed cuz of their username, @trocollo is also up for it


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> I could do it
> 
> tagging shark by his new username @Kisame


Okay that would be great. Between you and @Kisame  and @trocollo that should be 3 judges. Please post the thread. @MHA massive fan we should be good to go on this I’ll have my opening up later today or tomorrow


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## t0xeus (Nov 3, 2020)

@MHA massive fan you're down to do the debate, right? I havent seen you give a straight answer so I am just confirming


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @MHA massive fan you're down to do the debate, right? I havent seen you give a straight answer so I am just confirming


He said he was. But wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to back out now.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 3, 2020)

Sloan said:


> I don’t mind judging but I don’t read Boruto so it might be better if someone else that does, does a





t0xeus said:


> @MHA massive fan you're down to do the debate, right? I havent seen you give a straight answer so I am just confirming


I am 200 words or less 
Them long whingy statements I am not in the mood for 
I’ll bullet point my points

the summary is rather straight forward a fodder with a cloak cannot have durability above A4


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> I am 200 words or less
> Them long whingy statements I am not in the mood for
> I’ll bullet point my points
> 
> the summary is rather straight forward a fodder with a cloak cannot have durability above A4


@t0xeus so he’s in, it’s allowed up to 500 words, even if he only is using 200. Please make thread


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> @t0xeus so he’s in, it’s allowed up to 500 words, even if he only is using 200. Please make thread


Strange you don’t care about polls yet somehow want to start a debate where people vote who had the best argument 
Are you confused ?


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Strange you don’t care about polls yet somehow want to start a debate where people vote who had the best argument
> Are you confused ?


Already answer this in the other thread, a debate is different the poll, obviously. Don’t even know why you think they are the same....


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Already answer this in the other thread, a debate is different the poll, obviously. Don’t even know why you think they are the same....


 
Popular opinion is popular opinion


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Popular opinion is popular opinion


Yeah a debate isn’t about popular opinion of the whole forum it’s about opinion of judges that hopefully you and I hold in high esteem


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> Yeah a debate isn’t about popular opinion of the whole forum it’s about opinion of judges that hopefully you and I hold in high esteem


Who says I hold them in any esteem
What you have done is reduce the popular opinion of those you believe would agree with you

i hold no one in any esteem even slightly


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Who says I hold them in any esteem
> What you have done is reduce the popular opinion of those you believe would agree with you
> 
> i hold no one in any esteem even slightly


I frequently debate these people as well; and disagree with them all the time. I hold them in esteem to be impartial though which is why I choose them.

If you want to claim they wouldn’t be impartial your free to back out, but let’s not pretend it’s anything other then the fact that you know your going to be slapped by me, and are looking for an excuse.


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## MHA massive fan (Nov 3, 2020)

Turrin said:


> I frequently debate these people as well; and disagree with them all the time. I hold them in esteem to be impartial though which is why I choose them.
> 
> If you want to claim they wouldn’t be impartial your free to back out, but let’s not pretend it’s anything other then the fact that you know your going to be slapped by me, and are looking for an excuse.


Oh no I am criticising you for claiming you don’t care about polls to then ask for a select popular opinion 

no excuse my point would not even get to 50 words 

ready when you are


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## Turrin (Nov 3, 2020)

MHA massive fan said:


> Oh no I am criticising you for claiming you don’t care about polls to then ask for a select popular opinion
> 
> no excuse my point would not even get to 50 words
> 
> ready when you are


Sure I’ll post the thread


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 3, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> @BlackHeartedImp i think it's good to go?
> @t0xeus make the thread. @Mad Scientist, @Sloan, and @SakuraLover16 are judges. If @SakuraLover16 ain't allowed cuz of their username, @trocollo is also up for it


I am content.


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 3, 2020)

@t0xeus I finally got my laptop back. I'm ready to post 500 words of garbage

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 4, 2020)

@Speedyamell @BlackHeartedImp
can you tell me the conditions of the matchup? 

Like dese


> *Location:
> Knowledge:
> Distance:
> Restrictions:*


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## Speedyamell (Nov 4, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Speedyamell @BlackHeartedImp
> can you tell me the conditions of the matchup?
> 
> Like dese


Imp already did


BlackHeartedImp said:


> So, I'm going to go ahead and follow through on my insanity. @Aegon Targaryen , pray for me
> 
> *I challenge : *@Speedyamell
> *Match:* [Adult Sakura vs BM Naruto]
> ...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 4, 2020)

I'll have my first post in the morning, er, later in the morning @Speedyamell

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Speedyamell (Nov 4, 2020)

BlackHeartedImp said:


> I'll have my first post in the morning, er, later in the morning @Speedyamell


Are novel feats allowed?


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## BlackHeartedImp (Nov 4, 2020)

Speedyamell said:


> Are novel feats allowed?


Considering that was going to be one of my main talking points, yeah.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Sloan (Nov 4, 2020)

Good luck you two and have fun

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Raiken (Nov 4, 2020)

@t0xeus @Aegon Targaryen

I still want to do a KCM1 VS EMS Sasuke thread. I got banned just before it was supposed to happen lol.


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## Raiken (Nov 4, 2020)

Cryorex said:


> *I challenge : @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> Match:* KCM1 Naruto "Post-Kurama Coop" VS EMS Sasuke "Pre-Kyuubi Chakra Cloak" (Kabuto/Juubi fight Sasuke)
> *Location: *Juubi Battlefield
> ...


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## Raiken (Nov 4, 2020)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! I'd suggest @trocollo, @Shark, @Sloan,  @Troyse22, and @ShinAkuma.


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## God Of Naruto (Nov 5, 2020)

@Aegon Targaryen 
Bee vs alive Itachi
Itachi vs Hiruzen (part 1)
Sm Naruto(pain arc) vs Ms Sasuke
Ce lee vs Ce Sasuke
Jonin Minato vs Kakuzu
Sage Jiraya vs Fused Kisame
Sage Naruto vs Sage Jiraya
Edo Itachi vs Edo Nagato
Sm Kabuto Vs Pain
Kabuto vs Zabuza (Part 1)
EoS Sasuke vs 3 eyed Madara
Adult Naruto vs Kaguya
Delta vs Momoshiki(Manga)
MS Sasuke vs Sage Jiraya
Edo itachi vs The Gokage

pick a topic


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## t0xeus (Nov 11, 2020)

@Mad Scientist how about ur debate with @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 ? Do you want me to look for judges ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 11, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Mad Scientist how about ur debate with @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 ? Do you want me to look for judges ?


I'm more waiting for Miracles to respond, but I think he's too busy atm that's why he hasn't.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 12, 2020)

@t0xeus
@MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 confirmed that we're okay with:

*The three judges:* @Atlantic Storm @Ludi @Crimson Flam3s
*The battle conditions:* Konoha Crater, 15 m, IC, Manga knowledge, No restrictions
*The debate stipulations:* 2 posts (500) + appending to 2nd post some word count (~200-500) for critique section
(7G Gai (me) vs SM Hashirama (MagicalMiraclesOfWater65))
We can potentially get started this weekend.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1 | Creative 1 | Kage 1


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus
> @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 confirmed that we're okay with:
> 
> *The three judges:* @Atlantic Storm @Ludi @Crimson Flam3s
> ...


Looking forward to these type of normally by most people "accepted stomps" in a formal debate where bias and previous stance are basically ruled out. Hopefully it will be again a great match like kakashi vs minato. Good luck both of you!

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 12, 2020)

Mad Scientist said:


> @t0xeus
> @MagicalMiraclesOfWater65 confirmed that we're okay with:
> 
> *The three judges:* @Atlantic Storm @Ludi @Crimson Flam3s
> ...


Okay
@Atlantic Storm @Crimson Flam3s you're still ready to judge this match?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Crimson Flam3s (Nov 12, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> Okay
> @Atlantic Storm @Crimson Flam3s you're still ready to judge this match?



Yes

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Atlantic Storm (Nov 12, 2020)

I won't be around to write my vote until Monday - if that's acceptable, then I'm still ready.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Ludi (Nov 13, 2020)

Atlantic Storm said:


> I won't be around to write my vote until Monday - if that's acceptable, then I'm still ready.


@t0xeus 

Seems like its on. Lets go!

Reactions: Like 1


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## t0xeus (Nov 25, 2020)

@Draco Bolton (MS Obito) vs @Hazuki (SM Jiraiya+Orochimaru+Tsunade)

Let's settle it once for all, boys, you in?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Draco Bolton (Nov 25, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @Draco Bolton (MS Obito) vs @Hazuki (SM Jiraiya+Orochimaru+Tsunade)
> 
> Let's settle it once for all, boys, you in?


I would have liked to debate against one of the few serious member the forum had since very very long time, even before 2005 

But cuz garbage mod and many members (who are responsible for what happens in the forum now. Garbage mods didn't want restore the old serious naruto forum  ) he left forever and wont come back 

Garbage mods...why ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 25, 2020)

*I challenge : *@WorldsStrongest* 
Match:* BSM Naruto vs SM Hashirama
*Location: *Allied Shinobi Forces vs Juubi
*Knowledge: *Full*
Distance: *20 m*
Restrictions: *None

I will rep Naruto, he reps Hashirama

Judges: @Empathy, @trocollo, @MShadows or @Blu-ray

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## MShadows (Nov 25, 2020)

Kagutsutchi said:


> *I challenge : *@WorldsStrongest*
> Match:* BSM Naruto vs SM Hashirama
> *Location: *Allied Shinobi Forces vs Juubi
> *Knowledge: *Full
> ...


Would've gladly accepted the offer, but I'm kinda busy writing a thesis

Reactions: Friendly 2


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## Tsukuyomi (Nov 25, 2020)

MShadows said:


> Would've gladly accepted the offer, but I'm kinda busy writing a thesis


I wish you luck my son

Reactions: Agree 1 | Friendly 2


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 25, 2020)

Kagutsutchi said:


> *I challenge : *@WorldsStrongest*
> Match:* BSM Naruto vs SM Hashirama
> *Location: *Allied Shinobi Forces vs Juubi
> *Knowledge: *Full
> ...


If we can get those dudes to judge Ill do it

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Nov 25, 2020)

Kagutsutchi said:


> *I challenge : *@WorldsStrongest*
> Match:* BSM Naruto vs SM Hashirama
> *Location: *Allied Shinobi Forces vs Juubi
> *Knowledge: *Full
> ...


I'm in to judge (but I'll prolly take some time to post the results)


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 25, 2020)

trocollo said:


> I'm in to judge (but I'll prolly take some time to post the results)


No problem

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 26, 2020)

I just need one more judge


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## trocollo (Nov 26, 2020)

Kagutsutchi said:


> I just need one more judge


If you two can't find/agree the last judge an alternative idea could be to engage in the debate regardless but with the objective of dishing out each others focal points, have the two of you make a conclusive explantion on those and then put them to the votes (or make a specific thread about each of them)

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 26, 2020)

Kagutsutchi said:


> I just need one more judge


Dont we need at least 4?

Only 1 has replied from what I can see

What about @Kyu or @Braiyan or @Tri or @Jackalinthebox ?

Know you asked @Blu-ray but he doesnt seem to have replied yet


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 26, 2020)

WorldsStrongest said:


> Dont we need at least 4?


It's three

Empathy already agreed to vote, trocollo as well and now @Grinningfox too

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 26, 2020)

@t0xeus everything is ready, you can create the thread.


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## t0xeus (Nov 26, 2020)

@WorldsStrongest @Kagutsutchi are you fine with 500 word limit or do you want it to be 1000 or even larger?


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @WorldsStrongest @Kagutsutchi are you fine with 500 word limit or do you want it to be 1000 or even larger?


A thousand should be the limit for me.


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## WorldsStrongest (Nov 26, 2020)

t0xeus said:


> @WorldsStrongest @Kagutsutchi are you fine with 500 word limit or do you want it to be 1000 or even larger?


Id be fine with 1,000-1,500


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## Aegon Targaryen (Dec 1, 2020)

Someone really should debate @t0xeus on Tobirama. They keep saying Tobirama > Minato in reflexes to the point I'm genuinely not sure myself.


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## Raiken (Jan 11, 2021)

Someone debate me on KCM1 Naruto(me) VS EMS Sasuke, No Juubito feats(opponent).

@Aegon Targaryen already chickened out ages ago and has since blocked me.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jan 12, 2021)

actually, @Raiken, i blocked you ages ago for your intellectual dishonesty and forgot all about this little ''debate''...you never reminded me about that debate or even asked anyone else to do so on your behalf, incidentally, so i think you're the coward here lol. now you stay blocked.

i would love to debate someone whom i actually have a modicum of respect for.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Raiken (Jan 13, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> actually, @Raiken, i blocked you ages ago for your intellectual dishonesty and forgot all about this little ''debate''...you never reminded me about that debate or even asked anyone else to do so on your behalf, incidentally, so i think you're the coward here lol. now you stay blocked.
> 
> i would love to debate someone whom i actually have a modicum of respect for.


Keep dreaming.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Hina uzumaki (Feb 17, 2021)

Yosh


I CHALLENGE @t0xeus TO A DEBATE

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## t0xeus (Feb 17, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Yosh
> 
> 
> I CHALLENGE @t0xeus TO A DEBATE


Sorry I dont have time for these anymore 

But @Santoryu will fill up my spot

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Santoryu (Feb 17, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Sorry I dont have time for these anymore
> 
> But @Santoryu will fill up my spot



Sorry I don't have time for these anymore but @Soldierofficial will fill up my spot

Reactions: Funny 3


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## dergeist (Feb 17, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Yosh
> 
> 
> I CHALLENGE @t0xeus TO A DEBATE



Topic?


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## Hina uzumaki (Feb 17, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Topic?


Ass vs Tits

Reactions: Winner 1


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## dergeist (Feb 17, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Ass vs Tits



Will it be Naruto focused or expansive


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## Hina uzumaki (Feb 17, 2021)

dergeist said:


> Will it be Naruto focused or expansive


Expansive duh


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## GrandBenja (Feb 17, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Ass vs Tits


Neither. Many nations fell because their rulers allowed a woman to influence them. When your enemy can't get you directly, they attack you through a woman. They may either have one of their agents worm her way into your inner circle, or bribe your own lover into betraying you.

Don't let such charm sway you.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## dergeist (Feb 17, 2021)

Hina uzumaki said:


> Expansive duh



A debate of that magnitude could span the multiverse


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## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 29, 2021)

Anyone up for a debate? 

My debate with Mad Scientist is nearing its end. It doesn't have to be a major scale debate either, it could be a short one.


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## Troyse22 (Apr 29, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Anyone up for a debate?
> 
> My debate with Mad Scientist is nearing its end. It doesn't have to be a major scale debate either, it could be a short one.



I would but i'm looking for a formal debate with someone that's a challenge.

Not "challenged" btw Turrin camp, i'm looking for A CHALLENGE

Reactions: Winner 1 | Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 30, 2021)

Troyse22 said:


> I would but i'm looking for a formal debate with someone that's a challenge.
> 
> Not "challenged" btw Turrin camp, i'm looking for A CHALLENGE



Bro, come on. You know I'd wipe the floor with you (like I keep on doing over and over again).


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## t0xeus (Apr 30, 2021)

Troyse22 said:


> I would but i'm looking for a formal debate with someone that's a challenge.
> 
> Not "challenged" btw Turrin camp, i'm looking for A CHALLENGE


You (Kisame) vs @Mawt (Itachi) ?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mawt (Apr 30, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> You (Kisame) vs @Mawt (Itachi) ?


i only well do this if u show me ur body..

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2021)

I would do a formal debate.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Turrin (Apr 30, 2021)

Troyse22 said:


> I would but i'm looking for a formal debate with someone that's a challenge.
> 
> Not "challenged" btw Turrin camp, i'm looking for A CHALLENGE


Lol how about my pet cat? I feel strongly she could walk over the keyboard at random and give you a challenge

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Raiken (May 8, 2021)

Someone debate me on -

Me: KCM1 Naruto VS You: EMS Sasuke

Restrictions: PS

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Turrin (May 12, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Someone debate me on -
> 
> Me: KCM1 Naruto VS You: EMS Sasuke
> 
> Restrictions: PS


I mean I would debate that


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## Raiken (May 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I mean I would debate that


Cool. 

I forget. Does someone set it up for us or can I just make the thread?

*Also to point out, this is Sasuke before gaining the Kyuubi Chakra Cloak. So no BSM Naruto & Sasuke VS Juubito feats.*

So basically Kabuto fight Sasuke + his Juubi battle feats(Enton Sword & Susano'o Enton Sword/Arrow.)


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## Turrin (May 12, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Cool.
> 
> I forget. Does someone set it up for us or can I just make the thread?
> 
> ...


That’s fine as long as I can use his feats after he gains the cloak, but is no longer using it. And you can just set it up


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## Raiken (May 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> That’s fine as long as I can use his feats after he gains the cloak, but is no longer using it. And you can just set it up


Read my edit. Sorry aha.

So it's essentially the Juubi Fight versions of themselves.


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## Troyse22 (May 12, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> You (Kisame) vs @Mawt (Itachi) ?



I'm down


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## Turrin (May 12, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Read my edit. Sorry aha.
> 
> So it's essentially the Juubi Fight versions of themselves.


I mean that’s fine

just post it whenever

Reactions: Like 1


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## Troyse22 (May 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Lol how about my pet cat? I feel strongly she could walk over the keyboard at random and give you a challenge



She'd probably put together a stronger and more coherent argument than you so possibly


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## Turrin (May 12, 2021)

Troyse22 said:


> She'd probably put together a stronger and more coherent argument than you so possibly


Glad you admit you would probably loose to a cat


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## Troyse22 (May 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> Glad you admit you would probably loose to a cat



lose*


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## Turrin (May 12, 2021)

Troyse22 said:


> lose


Thanks for further clarifying you would definitely “lose”


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## Raiken (May 12, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I mean that’s fine
> 
> just post it whenever


Cool 

I'm at work right now but I'll post the thread tonight.


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## Turrin (May 13, 2021)

@Raiken  We still doing this?


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## Raiken (May 13, 2021)

Turrin said:


> @Raiken  We still doing this?


Yes sorry. I'm just supa busy right now.

I guess I asked a little too in Advance.

HOWEVER.

As soon as I'm ready, I will create the thread and tag you in it.


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## Turrin (May 13, 2021)

Raiken said:


> Yes sorry. I'm just supa busy right now.
> 
> I guess I asked a little too in Advance.
> 
> ...


Okay I can also create the thread and post a starting argument if you want


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 1, 2021)

Anyone up for a short debate? Judges are fine, but I'd really appreciate the brevity + the opportunity to debate.

A debate about the Akatsuki members would be nice, alternatively the Edo Kages, Sannin, or Masters too.


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## t0xeus (Jun 1, 2021)

I wanna get my toes wet since I haven't had a debate in a while, I'll be free some time later this month I think.  

Will update once I am free


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## Draghensalk (Jun 1, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> I wanna get my toes wet since I haven't had a debate in a while, I'll be free some time later this month I think.
> 
> Will update once I am free


Do you want to debate against me?I have to work this month but i think that i have some free time during the week after the eight of evening and i want to do a serious debate for once

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## t0xeus (Jun 1, 2021)

Draghensalk said:


> Do you want to debate against me?I have to work this month but i think that i have some free time during the week after the eight of evening and i want to do a serious debate for once


I don't think I've seen you post before, if you impress me throughout the month with your posts in other threads then I might take you on the challenge.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 1, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> I don't think I've seen you post before, if you impress me throughout the month with your posts in other threads then I might take you on the challenge.


I've only shitposted because i pretty much sucks in write in english there is too many time lose to write some worlds and i've joined the forum 1 week ago so i'm not a veteran

Reactions: Informative 1


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## t0xeus (Jun 1, 2021)

Draghensalk said:


> I've only shitposted because i pretty much sucks in write in english there is too many time lose to write some worlds and i've joined the forum 1 week ago so i'm not a veteran


Well, you've got noone other than Madara on your profile picture, so you're already on track to becoming a Chad poster at least.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 1, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Well, you've got noone other than Madara on your profile picture, so you're already on track to becoming a Chad poster at least.


I was not sure about what image use of Madara because there are too much on google but i want to say fuck i don't care of the image

Reactions: Like 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 1, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Well, you've got noone other than Madara on your profile picture, so you're already on track to becoming a Chad poster at least.


So for what character do you want to argue for?


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## t0xeus (Jun 1, 2021)

Draghensalk said:


> So for what character do you want to argue for?


I don't really care tbh, as long as the match-up is something that isn't unbalanced then I'll happily take a side.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 1, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> I don't really care tbh, as long as the match-up is something that isn't unbalanced then I'll happily take a side.


Okay can i write some matchup here?


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## t0xeus (Jun 1, 2021)

Draghensalk said:


> Okay can i write some matchup here?


Sure, and you can challenge anyone on them as well.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Impulse (Jun 1, 2021)

I want to see some more debates/ and I am seeing old debates before wanting to join/make one now that I got free time it could happen in the future

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Draghensalk (Jun 2, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Sure, and you can challenge anyone on them as well.


I argue for alive rinnegan SM Madara and you for Juubito do you agree with that?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## t0xeus (Jun 2, 2021)

Draghensalk said:


> I argue for alive rinnegan SM Madara and you for Juubito do you agree with that?


 i told you i didn't agree to your challenge yet, I will decide once I have some free time later this month


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## Draghensalk (Jun 2, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> i told you i didn't agree to your challenge yet, I will decide once I have some free time later this month


Okay


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 21, 2021)

Interested in any one of these challenges...

@trocollo Zabuza vs Asuma, we can end our current debate about Kisame vs Sasori if that's fine.

@WorldsStrongest Haku vs Asuma, you up for it? 

@Mithos Jiraiya vs WA Guy, I'm repping Guy.


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## trocollo (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @trocollo Zabuza vs Asuma, we can end our current debate about Kisame vs Sasori if that's fine.


Who I'm debating for? Cause in short I think portrayal wise Zabuza has the adavantage, while as a match-up burning ash may counter mist and with no mist Asuma wins

Yeah we can end as that afterall is not pinned so we could also continue it if we change idea lol


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

trocollo said:


> Who I'm debating for? Cause in short I think portrayal wise Zabuza has the adavantage, while as a match-up burning ash may counter mist and with no mist Asuma wins



I'll go for Asuma then!



trocollo said:


> Yeah we can end as that afterall is not pinned so we could also continue it if we change idea lol



Sounds good. Let's do it!

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I'll go for Asuma then!


Sure, this may be fairly quick since there isn't a lot of info

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

trocollo said:


> Sure, this may be fairly quick since there isn't a lot of info



@t0xeus We're ready!


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## trocollo (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @t0xeus We're ready!


Wait we gotta make a serious one? I don't want to write an actual paragraph of things, just wanna exchange opinions with you


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

trocollo said:


> Wait we gotta make a serious one? I don't want to write an actual paragraph of things, just wanna exchange opinions with you



Oh, snap. I did mean a serious debate lol.


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## trocollo (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Oh, snap. I did mean a serious debate lol.


XD can that wait for august? I'm more free there and more willingly to take my time to formulate an argument in that sense


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

trocollo said:


> XD can that wait for august? I'm more free there and more willingly to take my time to formulate an argument in that sense



Sure, bro!

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure, bro!


Thanks!


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

In the mean time...

@WorldsStrongest @Mithos


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## Draghensalk (Jun 22, 2021)

Someone wants to do a debate with me about Danzo vs Six Paths of Pain?I Argue for Danzo


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 22, 2021)

@~Kakashi~ What about you?


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## Bob74h (Jun 22, 2021)

@Aegon Targaryen

 I want to debate you and five other people of your choosing at once on madara and kaguya vs say the entire otststuki clan from boruto
Composite versions of the characters will be used and for the sake of argument let's just say this is at kirigakure anyways im desiring this as a formal debate with a two day response time and we each pick three judges of our choosing.

Also with the 5v1 aspect let's say you go then im to go next  with another member of your team then taking your turn afterwards, The order can be up to you really


Does these stipulations sound fine to you or no?


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## ~Kakashi~ (Jun 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @~Kakashi~ What about you?


Whats the question?

Reactions: Like 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 23, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I'll go for Asuma then!


I go with Asuma as well. Nice! Were on the same page


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> I go with Asuma as well. Nice! Were on the same page



Want a debate?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Want a debate?


Sure

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Sure



Asuma vs Kimimaro, how does it sound?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Asuma vs Kimimaro, how does it sound?


Ok. you go first


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Ok. you go first



Sure! What about conditions?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Sure! What about conditions?


you decide


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> you decide



Distance of 30 m, forest battlefield, Ic mindset, reputation intel only.


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Distance of 30 m, forest battlefield, Ic mindset, reputation intel only.


Forests give Asuma away to climb trees to get away from bone forest attack and gives him substitution jutsu.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Forests give Asuma away to climb trees to get away from bone forest attack and gives him substitution jutsu.



Save it for the debate, Haru


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Save it for the debate, Haru


Okay I will you go first


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Okay I will you go first



How long do you want each post to be?

Do you want to do just feats or also hype?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> How long do you want each post to be?
> 
> Do you want to do just feats or also hype?


Both but be creative and logical

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Both but be creative and logical



Great! 

@t0xeus You can make the thread


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Okay I'll make the thread what should I call it


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jun 24, 2021)

@HollowArrow123 Technically t0xeus is supposed to make it 

I assume you want a formal debate (with judges)? Informal is fine too.

And what about word count?

Word count: 3 posts each (300 words)


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Great!
> 
> @t0xeus You can make the thread





Aegon Targaryen said:


> @HollowArrow123 Technically t0xeus is supposed to make it
> 
> I assume you want a formal debate (with judges)? Informal is fine too.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks for telling me I just changed it to Kisame vs Sage naruto lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jun 24, 2021)

@Aegon Targaryen when will the debate happen. I'll be on tomorrow because it's late where I'm at.


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## t0xeus (Jul 1, 2021)

I am rdy for a debate if any1's down

Reactions: Like 1 | Coolest Guy! 1


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## Axiom (Jul 5, 2021)

It's been a while since I've participated in a debate but I'd be down to do one. I'm interested in arguing either side of Jiraiya Vs Onoki if anyone is interested in that.

Reactions: Coolest Guy! 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 7, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> I am rdy for a debate if any1's down



@HollowArrow123 You still interested in Asuma vs Kimimaro? 

Sorry for the late reply.


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @HollowArrow123 You still interested in Asuma vs Kimimaro?
> 
> Sorry for the late reply.


Lets go

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 7, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Lets go



Word limits? 300 words for first post, 400 for second, and 500 for third?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Word limits? 300 words for first post, 400 for second, and 500 for third?


Ok who goes first


----------



## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 7, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Ok who goes first



I can go first! 

Do you want a judge?


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

Yes


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## Aegon Targaryen (Jul 7, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Yes



@Mad Scientist @trocollo @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @t0xeus Anyone interested in judging?  

I think one judge should be fine.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Mad Scientist @trocollo @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @t0xeus Anyone interested in judging?
> 
> I think one judge should be fine.


I'll just pull up when Kakashi said Wind chakra can cut and severe anything  Haha. I won't do that lol I want to keep it fair so i'll explain why through how everything works.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## trocollo (Jul 7, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Mad Scientist @trocollo @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @t0xeus Anyone interested in judging?
> 
> I think one judge should be fine.


I'll be a bit busy for three weeks or something, but if nobody else wants to I'll be glad to do it, just you'll have to wait towards the end of the month XD ("maybe" before but Idk cause I'm generally slow at it)


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

trocollo said:


> I'll be a bit busy for three weeks or something, but if nobody else wants to I'll be glad to do it, just you'll have to wait towards the end of the month XD ("maybe" before but Idk cause I'm generally slow at it)


I'm cool with it because it will give us time to write a clear, confident and well written argument without fail or going by step by step debate and it would be good to prepare a debate and have everything we want to say already ready.

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

@Aegon Targaryen I might be going on to something here. 

Kimi- Kim Possible But Kimi has an extra I. I meaning you so I am Kin Possible referring to himself 
Maru- Kido-maru

Coincidence I think not 


Kimi is a mutated spider character that mutated with Kim Possible

Reactions: Funny 1


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## trocollo (Jul 7, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> I'm cool with it because it will give us time to write a clear, confident and well written argument without fail or going by step by step debate and it would be good to prepare a debate and have everything we want to say already ready.


Nice then, actually you both can just start and see when you end to see if there's waiting to do or not, since sometimes judges are found while debating lol


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 7, 2021)

trocollo said:


> Nice then, actually you both can just start and see when you end to see if there's waiting to do or not, since sometimes judges are found while debating lol


Ight @Aegon Targaryen I want to prepare so I'll @ you when I'm ready in most likely a week at max is enough time. I'm not crazy busy but I am abit as well but will have time to work on my debate through the week.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trocollo (Jul 7, 2021)

Just thought of this idea and wanted to put it there, that is if we get more judges there's also the possibilityes for the judges to vote as one after discussing the matter between them
In this case from the judges called now, me, t0x and Obito could have used the VC in the discord server to talk about it and come to a conclusion, would be pretty neat to do it sometimes, but I'll be rare since you need the people and the time, actually prolly just text may cut it too in discord, I'd like to see a "council decision" court style sometimes lol

Reactions: Like 1


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## GrandBenja (Jul 11, 2021)

I'd like to inform you that I'd be willing to have a debate about Samehada - specifically her genjutsu abilities and her (originally intended) role as the main antagonist.

I've been called a troll / laughed at / ignored / called names, but I have yet to read _even a single argument_ against my theory. It's getting a bit displeasing. I'd rather have a respectful contradiction.
If anyone wishes to offer arguments in a respectful conversation, I'm game for a debate.


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## t0xeus (Jul 11, 2021)

GrandBenja said:


> I'd like to inform you that I'd be willing to have a debate about Samehada - specifically her genjutsu abilities and her (originally intended) role as the main antagonist.
> 
> I've been called a troll / laughed at / ignored / called names, but I have yet to read _even a single argument_ against my theory. It's getting a bit displeasing. I'd rather have a respectful contradiction.
> If anyone wishes to offer arguments in a respectful conversation, I'm game for a debate.


What's your counter to an Occam's Razor-based argument?


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## GrandBenja (Jul 11, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> What's your counter to an Occam's Razor-based argument?


Hello, @t0xeus, and thank you for your answer. It's always a pleasure talking to you. 

Well, you could say Occam's Razor is in fact the basis of my theory. We can debate each occurrence in details if you wish to, but my main argument is that a chain of improbable coïncidences keeps favouring Samehada. Characters acting weirdly, events happening despite statistically having almost no chance of doing so fortuitously, inconsistencies in the story, weird panels in the manga…

I established that those improbable events always share a pattern:
- Samehada is present.
- The event plays a key role in the true Jūbi's eventual resurrection.

Now, we could assume that every single occurrence in this chain of statistical anomalies is fortuitous or has its own explanation.
Or we could follow Occam's Razor and choose the simplest explanation. If Samehada actually is a genjutsu user, then all those improbable coïncidences suddenly make perfect sense. A single hypothesis (Samehada's genjutsu) explains many events that would otherwise be inconsistent.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## t0xeus (Jul 11, 2021)

GrandBenja said:


> Hello, @t0xeus, and thank you for your answer. It's always a pleasure talking to you.
> 
> Well, you could say Occam's Razor is in fact the basis of my theory. We can debate each occurrence in details if you wish to, but my main argument is that a chain of improbable coïncidences keeps favouring Samehada. Characters acting weirdly, events happening despite statistically having almost no chance of doing so fortuitously, inconsistencies in the story, weird panels in the manga…
> 
> ...


We know people can hide in Samehada, and even skilled sensors are unable to sense out their presence.

Isn't it far more probable that there's a genjutsu user hiding in Samehada, rather than Samehada herself being the genjutsu caster - considering the fact that this would contradict what we were told in databooks and other material about her?


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## GrandBenja (Jul 11, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> We know people can hide in Samehada, and even skilled sensors are unable to sense out their presence.
> 
> Isn't it far more probable that there's a genjutsu user hiding in Samehada, rather than Samehada herself being the genjutsu caster - considering the fact that this would contradict what we were told in databooks and other material about her?


Not from a narrative perspective. Who'd be hiding in Samehada?

If we had to reveal a main antagonist whose goal is to get the Jūbi's chakra, who would you prefer?
- Samehada, a character introduced introduced in Part 1, whom we already knew could drain a Bijū's chakra.
- A completely new character introduced out of nowhere during the war, who happens to also want to drain the Jūbi's chakra.

If you think of it as of a detective novel, Samehada makes a much better "culprit". There's no point in creating a new character inside Samehada when Samehada herself already is a perfect villain.


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## t0xeus (Jul 11, 2021)

GrandBenja said:


> Not from a narrative perspective. Who'd be hiding in Samehada?
> 
> If we had to reveal a main antagonist whose goal is to get the Jūbi's chakra, who would you prefer?
> - Samehada, a character introduced introduced in Part 1, whom we already knew could drain a Bijū's chakra.
> ...


A character that we know about would be far more shocking to see hiding in Samehada, than it being a Samehada himself.

Shisui escaped Danzo and actually hid in Samehada or something along those lines would make for a much better story than Samehada being the culprit alone.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Creative 1


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## GrandBenja (Jul 11, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> A character that we know about would be far more shocking to see hiding in Samehada, than it being a Samehada himself.
> 
> Shisui escaped Danzo and actually hid in Samehada or something along those lines would make for a much better story than Samehada being the culprit alone.


I suppose a Shisui fan would indeed have preferred a Shisui reveal. I can see the appeal of this scenario. Some questions might require somewhat convoluted explanations though:
- How would Shisui perform those genjutsu from inside Samehada when he doesn't even have his Sharingan anymore?
- How did Shisui manage to control Samehada so well?
- Why wouldn't Itachi realise Shisui was keeping him in a genjutsu, despite being so familiar with Shisui's techniques?
- Why would Naruto sense Kisame inside Samehada but not Shisui? (Samehada herself not being detected as a threat by Naruto can be explained by her not really having human emotions.)
- What would Shisui intend to do with the Jūbi, since he doesn't have a Rinnegan to control it?
- And more importantly: why wouldn't Mr Kishimoto have gone through with this plan? In the end, he couldn't keep Samehada as the main antagonist because Kisame's actor passed away shortly before the reveal. But there's no reason he'd change his mind if Shisui is the one he intended all along.

I will concede, however, that in a "fan fiction" mindset, your Shisui idea is awesome. A few events would actually make sense if we had Shisui as the antagonist. Typically, he wouldn't have had too much trouble tampering with Naruto's Kotoamatsukami, since it was his technique to begin with. He wouldn't have had too much trouble anticipating Itachi's actions either, since they used to be friends. And of course, if Shisui isn't dead, that explains why Kabuto couldn't find his corpse.

Yeah, I can see why you'd choose this character as the antagonist. I like your imagination. Perhaps you'd be a good writer. 

But if we follow your earlier Occam's Razor argument, all the clues we have point to Samehada herself, who is known for lusting after the Bijū's chakra. There isn't any evidence pointing to Shisui specifically.

Reactions: Kage 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 12, 2021)

@Aegon Targaryen I'm ready


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## trocollo (Jul 13, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> @Aegon Targaryen I'm ready


He's banned tho

Reactions: Funny 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Jul 13, 2021)

trocollo said:


> He's banned tho


What happened


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## trocollo (Jul 13, 2021)

HollowArrow123 said:


> What happened


Idk but you can see the barred name

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Raiken (Jul 17, 2021)

@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask

KCM2/BM Naruto VS EMS Madara w/o Kurama

How does it work? Both have an opening post? Then how many responses do you have before you call it a day?

Also Judges, need some people who don't heavily debate this topic so we know they'll be impartial.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monarch (Jul 17, 2021)

Raiken said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask
> 
> KCM2/BM Naruto VS EMS Madara w/o Kurama
> 
> ...



I'm up for it .

Reactions: Like 3


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## Raiken (Jul 17, 2021)

Is there anyone who wants to judge the above who doesnt have an already set in stone viewpoint of how this plays out?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Tsukuyomi (Jul 17, 2021)

@Raiken 
@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask 
Wish you guys the best and may the best man win

Reactions: Like 1 | Friendly 3


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## trocollo (Jul 17, 2021)

Raiken said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask
> 
> KCM2/BM Naruto VS EMS Madara w/o Kurama
> 
> ...


Usually both people make their own first post wich is their whole argument where they agree to some word limit
Then they both make a rebuttal to each other's first post
Then judges judge following the criteria decided by the posters, an example of those criteria is in the OP of this thread

That's just the usual tho, there've been debates with more rebuttals for example, or with more specifc criteria, it's what you want to do

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 18, 2021)

Raiken said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask
> 
> KCM2/BM Naruto VS EMS Madara w/o Kurama
> 
> ...


I can do it if you want. I am not quite sure who would win. I would highly recommend that you get two other judges on board. You'd have to reach out a little, such as tagging 9 people. I wonder if any incentives can be offered, but I am not aware if mods etc. want to do these things. Formal debate participants deserve rewards.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Raiken (Jul 18, 2021)

Mad Scientist said:


> I can do it if you want. I am not quite sure who would win. I would highly recommend that you get two other judges on board. You'd have to reach out a little, such as tagging 9 people. I wonder if any incentives can be offered, but I am not aware if mods etc. want to do these things. Formal debate participants deserve rewards.


Okay well you can be 1 judge if @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask is happy with that. Just need two more then.

I'll have a poke around.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Monarch (Jul 18, 2021)

3 judges would be my preference .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monarch (Jul 18, 2021)

Mad Scientist said:


> I can do it if you want.



You're in if @Raiken is okay with it .

We need 2 more judges .


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## Raiken (Jul 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> You're in if @Raiken is okay with it .
> 
> We need 2 more judges .


I'm good with it.

@trocollo

You have experience judging don't you?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Jul 18, 2021)

Raiken said:


> I'm good with it.
> 
> @trocollo
> 
> You have experience judging don't you?


I do but I lack time till august, plus Idk if I'll have to judge or not another debate depending on when an user gets unbanned, so I think we can do it this way:
Can count me in while searching others, if you happen to finish the debate before I get free you either wait, or maybe the two other judges will have voted the same person, or another dude who wants to judge shows up

Reactions: Like 2


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## GrandBenja (Jul 25, 2021)

If anyone's interested, I'm still up for a Samehada debate.


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## Phenomenon (Aug 5, 2021)

GrandBenja said:


> If anyone's interested, I'm still up for a Samehada debate.


Saltwater GG no need for a debate.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 18, 2021)

@Turrin 

Kabuto vs Jman, a battle of the less than perfect Sage(s*)   

No biased judges


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## Ziggy Stardust (Aug 24, 2021)

@Mithos 

Seen as you think Base Jman beats WA Kakashi, I challenge you to a public debate on the topic.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2021)

@MaruUchiha P1 KN1 Naruto vs P1 Kakashi.

@Six Paths Scaling P1 CS2 Sasuke vs P1 Kakashi.


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## MaruUchiha (Aug 30, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @MaruUchiha P1 KN1 Naruto vs P1 Kakashi.


What, you wanna debate me on that?

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Aug 30, 2021)

MaruUchiha said:


> What, you wanna debate me on that?



Yes


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## Ziggy Stardust (Sep 2, 2021)

@t0xeus can u pls set a thread for me and @Turrin to do kabuto vs jman


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## t0xeus (Sep 2, 2021)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> @t0xeus can u pls set a thread for me and @Turrin to do kabuto vs jman


Yeah, does the location, distance and other conditions matter? Or should I just go with the standard ones

Also what about judges


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## Ziggy Stardust (Sep 2, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Yeah, does the location, distance and other conditions matter? Or should I just go with the standard ones
> 
> Also what about judges


 
Same three judges and standard locations 

Both start in Sm


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## Turrin (Sep 2, 2021)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Same three judges and standard locations
> 
> Both start in Sm


Did the judges ever vote on the Vc portion 

@t0xeus


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## t0xeus (Sep 2, 2021)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Same three judges and standard locations
> 
> Both start in Sm





Turrin said:


> Did the judges ever vote on the Vc portion
> 
> @t0xeus


Who were the agreed on judges? I just remember you both saying that you're fine with anyone on the server but dergeist and trocollo.


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## Turrin (Sep 2, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> Who were the agreed on judges? I just remember you both saying that you're fine with anyone on the server but dergeist and trocollo.


I thought it was You, ObitoOrangeMask, and Third


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## t0xeus (Sep 2, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I thought it was You, ObitoOrangeMask, and Third


@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @ThirdRidoku you down to judge a text debate on that same match-up they had on vc?


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## ThirdRidoku (Sep 2, 2021)

t0xeus said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @ThirdRidoku you down to judge a text debate on that same match-up they had on vc?


Yeah. So how does the judging work for this? I 've listened to the Discord recording, and they got a decent amount of argumentation in/. So are we judging on that first? Or are we gonna see the text debate first then judge everything.

If we are judging on the voice recording first, that would give both contestants the opportunity to recieve feedback that would allow them to refine their arguments for the text debate?

To me it seems like the even the discord argument was unfinished since Ziggy disconnected due to technical issues and Turrin had to leave..


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## Turrin (Sep 3, 2021)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Yeah. So how does the judging work for this? I 've listened to the Discord recording, and they got a decent amount of argumentation in/. So are we judging on that first? Or are we gonna see the text debate first then judge everything.
> 
> If we are judging on the voice recording first, that would give both contestants the opportunity to recieve feedback that would allow them to refine their arguments for the text debate?
> 
> To me it seems like the even the discord argument was unfinished since Ziggy disconnected due to technical issues and Turrin had to leave..


I think you should judge the points on the discord first and then, we can continue on text with the feedback in mind; and then if someone won the discord portion it will just be best 2 out of 3; so if same person wins the text portion then they win; and if they don’t then we’ll figure out a round 3 at that point. As long as @Ziggy Stardust and the other judges are also okay with this @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask and @t0xeus

Reactions: Like 1


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## ThirdRidoku (Sep 4, 2021)

Turrin said:


> I think you should judge the points on the discord first and then, we can continue on text with the feedback in mind; and then if someone won the discord portion it will just be best 2 out of 3; so if same person wins the text portion then they win; and if they don’t then we’ll figure out a round 3 at that point. As long as @Ziggy Stardust and the other judges are also okay with this @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask and @t0xeus


Okay, so I'll make a list of the points with my thoughts on the arguments both sides made:


1.
*Ziggy argues "Snake Beats Toads"*

Turrin provided counter evidence from the mythology that Naruto is based on " The tale of  Jiraiya the Gallantto show evidence that Snakes don't always beat Toads.

Ziggy on the other hand didn't provide the manga evidence or databook evidence supporting this claim as an absolute rule

So i'd give the edge to turrin here.

2.

*Ziggy argues Base Kabuto>= Oro > Base Jman, and SM Kabuto is thus greater than Sage Jiraiya

Turrin argues Base Kabuto is equal to or weaker than Orochimaru (sans Oro using the Hydra technique)*

This evolves into a relevant sub-debate regarding Base Kabuto vs Orochimaru scaling, which mainly revolved around the fact Kabuto became a carbon copy of Oro and whether or not Kabuto can use all of Oro's abilities.

Turrin is able to provide evidence that strongly suggests Kabuto doesn't have access to Kusanagi as it was likely sealed by Totsuka Blade.

He is also able to provide evidence that the Kusanagi blade is a pretty big deal, given it pressured Enma who was Konoha's strongest summon according to the DB, also allowed Oro to survive RDS with nothing more than losing his arms.

Lastly, Turrin makes a good observation that Orochimaru despite having his 8 headed hydra walled by Susano'o and heads decimated by Itachi's blade, was still prepared to fight against Itachi still clad in Susano'o with his Kusanagi blade, implying that the Kusanagi Blade's Attack Potency scales over the 8 Headed Serpent This is also the same blade he brought out to attempt to pierce KN4. So it stands to reason that Orochimaru has a very powerful blade here, that i feel Ziggy didn't really address the power of the blade, despite conceding that Kabuto very likely doesn't have access to it, thus putting into contention the idea that Base Kabuto is above Orochimaru or can use all of his technques.

Ziggy brings up a good point about Kabuto having the hydrification technique of Suigetsus, as well as assimiliating the DNA of the other Sound 5, but fails to prove whether or not Kabuto can use these jutsu in base as opposed to just in Sage Mode.

Ziggy also proves Manda II is > Manda I, though Turrin is correct in saying the gap isn't particularly large

Ziggy also did not prove that Kabuto himself can use the full extent of the Sound 5 techniques, as opposed to just the clones being able to do so, such as traveling through the bones of Dance of the Seedling Fern, especially when Kabuto is in Base which is relevant to the Base Kabuto vs Oro debate.

Not to mention, There is no direct evidence that Ziggy presented proving Kabuto can use literally all of Oro's techniques other than Sasuke remarking that he had become just like Oro and had used techniques like snake shedding and summons and an improved Edo Tensei. Turrin argued well that just because you can use some techniques of a person because you have their DNA doesn't mean you can use all.

Turrin also argues Oro not only has better showings than Base Kabuto, but Base Kabuto also remarked to gain a large amp from just a portion of Orochimaru's chakra in Anko's seal in using it to strengthen his Edo Tensei, and in general the only thing that puts Base Kabuto on Oro's level is the fact the he has assimilated Oro's DNA and  such.


However, Ziggy does make a point that Kabuto does have a stronger body given he can handle SM,, but this isn't enough on its own to put him over Oro in Base as otherwise by just that logic, as Turrin refutes, Jman is also above Oro and Wind Arc Naruto is also above Minato since he has a better rasengan.

Turrin admitted there is debate to be had on this full subject to iron out who has the overall advantage, given that Kabuto and oro both have at least some pros and cons over each other. The time constraints made it impossible to finish this point, but given that it was Ziggy that initiated this argument but could not deliver evidence on what he did get to talk about, I'd give the edge to Turrin here.

Ziggy, however, still has the opportunity to better substantiate this point in Round 2 of this debate.

3)

*Turrin argues that the Elder Toads are Better Sages than Kabuto in terms of Sage Mastery due to years of exp, and that the fusion they provide with Jiraiya ( who is also a sage, though an imperfect one) leads to an overall stronger Sage Mode.*

Ziggy contests this point by saying Pa has a worser strength feat than Rookie Sage Naruto in comparing their ability to lift the giant rock, and thus has a worser Sage Mode.

But this is not a sound counter- argument, as Turrin points out, as a ninja's physical strength is also determined by their base physical strength on top of their chakra enhanced strength ( which is dependent on a ninja's chakra reserves as well as chakra control)

So turrin is correct in saying that Fukasaku, a fucking toad, likely has weaker strength than Naruto Base to Base, and it's impossible to say who has better strength when adding regular chakra enhamcent, which then skews the result of who is stronger once nature energy is added to the equation on both sides. So  Just because Sage Fukasaku is weaker than Sage Naruto doesn't mean his Sage Mode Mastery is weaker, it can just mean that  the sum  of Naruto's base strength and regular Chaka enhancement exceeds Pa's base strength and regular chakra enhancement,  but they both have equal Sage Mastery. Or it can mean Pa's Sage Mastery is greater but Naruto's physical strength in Base is much greater than Pa's physical strength in base.


So I think Ziggy had a misunderstanding that the strength feat was comparing Naruto's  senjutsu to Pa's  senjutsu, rather than it comparing the sum of Pa's senjutsu, ninjutsu, and base chakra to the sum of Naruto,s senjutsu, base strength, and chakra amped strength,

Remember that senjutsu chakra doesn't replace one's ninjutsu chakra, but rather is an amp to it, so they stack together.

So Turrin takes this point as well imo, as Ziggy did not provide a counter to this.





*4)  Turrin argues that Jiraiya's Gamayu Endan can seriously injure Kabuto.*

Ziggy retorts that Kabuto can counter this with a Water Wave similiar to what Kakashi did against Kakazu's Fuuton + Fire Combo.
However, Turrin correctly points out that Kakashi himself says the Water Jutsu failed, and at best, as Ziggy also admits, only allowed Kakashi to jump away from the Katon.


Turrin is also correct in that Gamayu Endan was large enough and fast enough to quickly over-take a mountain range + worth of distance, and as the Databook States, The large amount of Oil Gamabunta employs makes the jutsu far stronger than a normal Katon, and it's a fact of the physics that the size of a Flame directly correlates with it's power, especially the heat.


So not only does Kabuto not have a Suiton Feat of beating a Fire- Wind combo ( which Kakashi also failed to do), he has no feat of countering a collaboration Fire jutsu that amps the size of the flames to mountain range level AoE and also inherently amps it's heat.




5)   *Kabuto vs Goemon and Yomi Numa*


Ziggy Concedes that Kabuto cannot fly after initially arguing that he could,  and thus doesn't have this means to counter Goemon or Yomi Numa, and also concedes that Jiraiya can make a Swamp too big for Kabuto avoid by simply jumping.

Ziggy was also not able to demonstrate how Kabuto evades this Goemon+ Yomi Numa combo, as jumping leaves Kabuto more vulnerable to being hit by a followup Jutsu and he can't stay in mid-air for ever.

Ziggy was also unable to demonstrate that Kabuto's fodder snake summons have the durability to survive Goemon, something that was a threat to Pain, who Turrin proved had at least durability and endurance feats on par with Pain's own Boss Summons. Ziggy was also unable to provide durability Feats of Kimimaro bones as well to suggest they would tank Goemon, other than citing the bones are stronger than steel, to which Turrin could counter with the fact Jman's base hair was compared to steel, which would then also being much stronger than steel when amped by Sage Mode, so these bones could potentially be ripped apart by Jiraiya's hair techniques.


Ziggy offered Dance of Seedling Fern as a potential argument, but aside from the issue of proving it has sufficient durability,  the other issue circles back to whether Kabuto can proficiently use Kimimaro's techniques well enough to travel through the bones, when given the fact that only Kimimaro's clone was able to do so.


So I give Turrin the points here as well.


This another area where Ziggy still has room to improve for Round 2.

6)  *White Rage and Muki Tensei vs Jiraiya & Speed scaling*


Ziggy concedes that he can't prove Itachi has fuuton mastery on par with Jiraiya's Toads, and thus is unable to showcase that Jiraiya's fuutons would be unable to blow away the sound from White Rage.


Turrin conceded that Jiraiya and co won't have knowledge of the sound technique in advance and that Pa nor Pa has the willpower feats to activate fuuton during White Rage. And I have to say that Ziggy is correct in saying there is no evidence that Pa was affected by Pain's chakra rod.


Turrin argues that Jiraiya, based on his willpower feats can cast a jutsu during White rage if Itachi and Sasuke could at least use Susano'o briefly during the White Rage.

Ziggy seems to concede this, but argues that the Muki Tensei follow-up will still do Jman in.


However, Ziggy is unable to explain and justify his application of Muki Tensei by using the stated and featured mechanics of Muki Tensei, especially in how it works outside of a cave. He also didn't provide any arguments to prove the Attack potency of Muki Tensei can get through Jiriaya's hair defense technique for example, and only argued about what jutsu Jiraiya could cast.  But I'd give the points to Turrin here because he proved Jiraiya could cast high-level hair techniques without handseals which Ziggy conceded to .

And if the fight is in a cave, Ziggy did not address the further advantages that could potentially give to Jiraiya's Goemon without heavily stacking the fight in Kabuto's favour.






Ziggy is also unable to provide any speed feats of White Rage as well as Kabuto's own speed feats to suggest he is much faster than Jiraiya, and failed to even address Turrin's speed scaling in which he argues Jiraiya can keep up with Kabuto, which came across as a concession. Simply saying you disagree isn't a counter-argument.

Ziggy also misrepresented Jiraiya's speed scaling to his own free-falling sandal, given that the manga illustrates Jiraiya manifesting Rasengan and moving toward preta pain BEFORE the sandal hits the ground,  despite Jiraiya moving well after tossing the sandals toward the ground. But even worse is that Ziggy counters his own argument in saying that the author's intent was to show the speed.



Ziggy also brought up the fact that V1 A3 is likely faster than Human path, who scaled to Jiraiya,  based on the FRS Scaling, which I agree with, as A3 dodges FRS twice at point-blank range while Human path only has the feat of throwing Animal pain at point blank range, and Turrin didn't really explain why Human path having the strength to throw Animal out of the way is a better feat than dodging it twice while off balanced and partially blinded from the attack.

But even with that, scaling Human path below V1 A3  on its own does nothing  as you have failed to scale them to Kabuto, which means Ziggy, you have still failed to prove Jiraiya is not fast enough to keep up with Kabuto, while at the same time not addressing Turrin's argument.


So I'm still giving the overall point here to Turrin, whilst keeping in mind the debate cut off here due to technically difficulties on Ziggy's end, and Turrin having to leave.


7) *Can Kabuto cast techniques if his body is in Water form from taking damage, especially techniques that require him to cast jutsu from his mouth?*

Ziggy failed to provide conclusive evidence of this, nor is it likely imo that Jiraiya would think Kabuto is dead if he seems him splash into water from a Odama Rasengan




Conclusion:


Turrin pretty much won every point in this debate so far, imho. However, there is much potential for Ziggy to improve because there were arguments he could have used in certain discussion points to enhance his arguments that weren't even brought up, and i understand that this is at least in part due to time constraints and the nature of it being an audio debate. And even within the discussion points, you did bring up some good points here and there, but nothing to prove your overall stance as the stronger one. So far, Turrin has won this from a pure debating standpoint
.


My suggestion to Ziggy is to address and refute all your opponent's arguments, no matter how silly they are or you think they are, as without doing that you are just giving them free points imo, as your alternate refutations weren't adequate, at least, not based on  what you had time to say over the Discord voice debate, and because you didn't even hear Turrin's arguments it came across as a concession. Because Turrin, on the other hand, addressed all your arguments.

You yourself admitted there were things you didn't think of and there were things you had to concede on.

But I think there is a lot of potentials for you to make your arguments in Round 2 stronger. My suggestion would to be also look more carefully at the attributes of Kabuto's techniques, as there were aspects you failed to bring up which made it very easy for Turrin to dictate the pace of the debate, on top of providing more evidence for him being able to use the techniques you claimed he can and also justiying better things like him casting a jutsu while in pure water form.



*Victor of Round 1: Turrin.*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Turrin (Sep 4, 2021)

ThirdRidoku said:


> Okay, so I'll make a list of the points with my thoughts on the arguments both sides made:
> 
> 
> 1.
> ...


Thanks for detailed analysis


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## Ziggy Stardust (Sep 4, 2021)

Where is tox?


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## ~Kakashi~ (Sep 6, 2021)

Ziggy Stardust said:


> Where is tox?


He requested a ban from the forums to focus on other things in life, or so was the explanation given on discord.


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## Monarch (Sep 18, 2021)

I challenge @MaruUchiha on Madara's PS vs all Bijuu .

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> I challenge @MaruUchiha on PS vs all Bijuu .





If Maru doesn't accept, I'd like to challenge you instead (BM Naruto vs Base Hashirama or Jiraiya vs Itachi, either is fine.)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monarch (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> If Maru doesn't accept, I'd like to challenge you instead (BM Naruto vs Base Hashirama or Jiraiya vs Itachi, either is fine.)



I'll go with Itachi vs Jiraiya .


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> I'll go with Itachi vs Jiraiya .



Done! 

Thoughts about judges and conditions?

IMO a 20 m field is fair for both and not particularly advantageous to either. A forest, I'm thinking. For judges, I'd be fine with most anyone, but a mod, trocollo, ThirdRidoku, dabi, or Rin could do a nice job I feel. Let me know your thoughts. 

Also, I'm talking about living sick Itachi, the one of Shippuden that fought Sasuke. I should have clarified that earlier...


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## Monarch (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Done!
> 
> Thoughts about judges and conditions?
> 
> ...



I agree with everything above, if at least 2 judges are willing to volunteer, I'm up for it .


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> I agree with everything above, if at least 2 judges are willing to volunteer, I'm up for it .



@dabi @ThirdRidoku @trocollo @Rin @LostSelf Any of you up for it?

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## trocollo (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @dabi @ThirdRidoku @trocollo @Rin @LostSelf Any of you up for it?


I'm a bit short on time to be a judge, expecially in a Jiraiya vs Itachi, can try going trough it by different parts in days but can't garantee that I won't trow my pc out the window midway trough


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## Rin (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @dabi @ThirdRidoku @trocollo @Rin @LostSelf Any of you up for it?


I can do it if you present me the rules of evaluation.


But why are you going up for Jiraiya, Maru?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

Rin said:


> I can do it if you present me the rules of evaluation.



Eh, you judge us based on whoever makes the better debate to you.



Rin said:


> But why are you going up for Jiraiya, Maru?



Because he can beat Itachi more often than not but not everyone thinks so.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask How long should our posts be? Any format you'd like to prefer?


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## Monarch (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask How long should our posts be? Any format you'd like to prefer?



Can we do it without a word limit ?


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> Can we do it without a word limit ?



But those are the best kind 

Jk lol, I'm game. Do you have any judges to recommend? I think @Rin agreed and @trocollo a little tentative...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Monarch (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> But those are the best kind
> 
> Jk lol, I'm game. Do you have any judges to recommend? I think @Rin agreed and @trocollo a little tentative...



I don't have any to recommend .

I'm fine with the ones you've tagged .

Though I'll think about some if troc or the others won't be able too .

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 18, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> I don't have any to recommend .
> 
> I'm fine with the ones you've tagged .
> 
> Though I'll think about some if troc or the others won't be able too .



@Grinningfox, thoughts about it?


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## Grinningfox (Sep 18, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Grinningfox, thoughts about it?


I don’t have many just that 

Whatever the word  count is decided to be  it should go down for the Rebuttals


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 19, 2021)

Grinningfox said:


> I don’t have many just that
> 
> Whatever the word  count is decided to be  it should go down for the Rebuttals



Technically, I meant if you wanted to be a judge here...

@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Thoughts?


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## Monarch (Sep 19, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Technically, I meant if you wanted to be a judge here...
> 
> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Thoughts?



I'm okay with it .


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 20, 2021)

@Rin @trocollo Please confirm if you're cool with it


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## trocollo (Sep 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Rin @trocollo Please confirm if you're cool with it


Yeah lets go, worst case scenario it's just a matter of waiting a little more (between me finishing it or finding a sub)


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 20, 2021)

trocollo said:


> Yeah lets go, worst case scenario it's just a matter of waiting a little more (between me finishing it or finding a sub)



 

@Rin Ready?


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## Rin (Sep 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Rin Ready?


Ya, Maru.


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 20, 2021)

Rin said:


> Ya, Maru.



@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Game on


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## Monarch (Sep 20, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Game on

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen (Jiraiya) vs @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask (Itachi)

*Battlefield*: Forest.
*Distance*: 20 m.
*Mindset*: IC.
*Restrictions*: This is Living Itachi.
*Knowledge*: Manga.

*Judges*: @trocollo @Rin

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rin (Sep 22, 2021)

Shouldn't it have 3 judges in case for a tie?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 22, 2021)

Rin said:


> Shouldn't it have 3 judges in case for a tie?



I have to admit that's a good point.

@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Since I recommended the first two judges (and then some), do you have someone in mind?


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## Monarch (Sep 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> I have to admit that's a good point.
> 
> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask Since I recommended the first two judges (and then some), do you have someone in mind?


Honestly, at this point no, If someone else volunteers as the 3rd judge I'll be fine .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 22, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> Honestly, at this point no, If someone else volunteers as the 3rd judge I'll be fine .



Cool  

Do you wanna go first or should I do it?


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## Monarch (Sep 22, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> Cool
> 
> Do you wanna go first or should I do it?



You do it first if you want .

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Rin (Sep 24, 2021)

Where is the debate, Marus?

@ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @Aegon Targaryen

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Sep 24, 2021)

Rin said:


> Where is the debate, Marus?
> 
> @ObitoOfTheOrangeMask @Aegon Targaryen



Sorry for the delay! I'm having the busiest week of my life, perhaps. I'll get to it, you have my word.

Reactions: Friendly 1 | Lewd 2


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## GrandBenja (Oct 24, 2021)

Hello, everyone. I'd just like to remind you that I am still willing to have a respectful debate regarding Samehada's role as the main antagonist.

So many people have ignored or laughed at me, called me a troll, etc. If my arguments are so ridiculous, why don't you try to publicly refute them in a respectful debate, so that I may be proven wrong and therefore stop using them?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> I only say just that, regardless if it's a requirement or not, which would be up to you to prove to be the case, we know he has chakra of all biju inside him, which is used as the gathering place. If he didn't have their chakra anymore, this gathering would be impossible. Since official series we know he can enter SPSM without pleading all 9 biju each time to please lend him more chakra and based on eye visuals we can deduce he used SPSM multiple times in Boruto now. That's everything I claim.


@MYGod000  this is what I claim about SPSM. As you keep quoting me about SPSM related stuff :



Ludi said:


> If you disagree and want an official debate (in a separate thread) on Naruto using spsm we can have an official debate about that with some amount of posts and words and a judge



The debate would be:
You: Naruto needs chakra of all biju to use SPSM, which he doesn't have anymore, so he hasn't used SPSM post VotE2 and he can't unless he asks for help to all biju to lend him some chakra.
Me: Naruto used SPSM post VotE2, and if you prove it's required for him to have all Biju chakra, that is not an issue as he has fragments of all Biju chakra inside him.

Let me know if you are up, how many posts you want and how long these posts should be. As it isn't the most complex topic we can keep it relatively short if that would be a constraint for you. I think I only need around 500 words and we can just do an opening both if you want to, so we can keep it short if you like. If you are up, let me know, so we can find a judge.

To me it's not about who is right or wrong, who wins or loses, just to get someone to judge both sides to see which makes more sense.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> @MYGod000  this is what I claim about SPSM. As you keep quoting me about SPSM related stuff :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what you're Failing to comprehend is Naruto still had Bijuu chakra during VOTE2...So him using SPSM does nothing to my argument.  I made Several Arguments which you failed to actually note here.

Which is Naruto losing The Seal which the Databook states is Naruto in SPSM. When Naruto woke up to fight Madara he was already in SPSM. 

Second Argument is After Naruto Lost the Seal, He lost a vast Quantity of His and Sasuke Six path chakra. Not just a little bit but a  Significantly amount considering Naruto no longer has SPSM in Base anymore same with Sasuke.

Third Argument was that *Manga Stated Naruto at the end of VOTE 2 * used all all of Kurama chakra as well as the Other tailed Beast chakra.  You need to explain How Naruto is able to Regenerate The tailed Beast chakra without having there chakra.  I also said He could have ask them for Chakra off-Panel as well.

Notice how I said The end Of the VOTE 2.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> what you're Failing to comprehend is Naruto still had Bijuu chakra during VOTE2...So him using SPSM does nothing to my argument.  I made Several Arguments which you failed to actually note here.
> 
> Which is Naruto losing The Seal which the Databook states is Naruto in SPSM. When Naruto woke up to fight Madara he was already in SPSM.
> 
> ...



That's why I say *POST* VotE2. You know what POST means right? After. I will change it in my reply so we are on the same page and you understand the words.

Its better if you save your input for the debate, if you don't duck. This isn't the thread for discussion only to agree on the settings.



Ludi said:


> You: Naruto needs chakra of all biju to use SPSM, which he doesn't have anymore, as he used it all at the end of Vote2. So he hasn't used SPSM after VotE2 and he can't unless he asks for help to all biju to lend him some chakra.
> Me: Naruto used SPSM after VotE2, and if you prove it's required for him to have all Biju chakra, that is not an issue as he has fragments of all Biju chakra inside him.


So do you agree with these updated representing views of both of us?
And can we search for a judge? You want multiple posts or only an opening is fine? 500 words or rather more?

I only want answers on the questions below the quote. I don't want any debate in this topic. Just yes / no answers if we are going to have this debate with a judge or not. And what settings we agree on.


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> That's why I say *POST* VotE2. You know what POST means right? After. I will change it in my reply so we are on the same page and you understand the words.
> 
> Its better if you save your input for the debate, if you don't duck. This isn't the thread for discussion only to agree on the settings.
> 
> ...



what you're saying and what the Manga is saying are conflicting. the manga States Naruto used All of Kurama's chakra to the point he went to sleep and couldn't do anything no more. 

I don't have to answers your looking for, all you can say is that is just an inconsistency Like Kaguya being injured by sakura, or sakura being able to touch Limbo without having Six path Senjutsu even though Sasuke Stated you need Six path Senjutsu to begin to affect Limbo. 

Or Amando Being Scared of Jigen while also being able to Create cyborg more powerful than Jigen at any time he wanted. 

I'm not interested in having a Judged debate, i've said this many time on this site and other sites i don't do that and never do that.  We have our views on this there is no changing that. logically it should be impossible for Naruto  Regenerate Chakra that isn't his, and stated he drained all Kurama's chakra during the end of His fight and put him to sleep. If we are saying Bijuu+Kurama's chakra mixed together then should further support that fact that he used all of his chakra post VOTE 2. 

I tried compromising with you saying That Naruto can call upon the bijuu to give him more chakra which he can, but regardless that quantity of the Six path chakra would be significantly lower because he no longer is being amped by Sun Seal which the Databook States is SPSM as well.  There is no point in having long discussion  writing 500  words just to conclude that we have difference in how you view things and Agree to disagree at the end. It's a waste of time doing that, I don't want to feel like I wasted my time or your time.  My answer is no on the judge debate.

Reactions: Lewd 1


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> My answer is no on the judge debate.


Haven't read the rest as it's off topic. Concession accepted

Reactions: Winner 11


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## Monarch (Nov 12, 2021)

> My answer is no on the judge debate.





Ludi said:


> Haven't read the rest as it's off topic. Concession accepted





@Altiora Night @Sparks @Code @kayz @Kenjaku @Kuzehiko @Starkk @Hellblade @Kagutsutchi @Soldierofficial @Grinningfox

Reactions: Funny 3 | Winner 8


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## Kenjaku (Nov 12, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> @Altiora Night @Sparks @Code @kayz @Kenjaku @Kuzehiko @Starkk @Hellblade @Kagutsutchi @Soldierofficial @Grinningfox

Reactions: Funny 2 | Friendly 1


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## Sparks (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> Haven't read the rest as it's off topic. Concession accepted


Naruto supposedly used up all the bijuu fragments at VoTE2 and Kurama fell unconscious after transferring the last piece of chakra he had available, yet Naruto was able to undo IT for which having components of all the bijuu chakra is a pre-requisite the next morning.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Monarch (Nov 12, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Naruto supposedly used up all the bijuu fragments at VoTE2 and Kurama fell unconscious after transferring the last piece of chakra he had available, yet Naruto was able to undo IT for which having components of all the bijuu chakra is a pre-requisite the next morning.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Naruto supposedly used up all the bijuu fragments at VoTE2 and Kurama fell unconscious after transferring the last piece of chakra he had available, yet Naruto was able to undo IT for which having components of all the bijuu chakra is a pre-requisite the next morning.


Why are you basically using 50 of my 500-words-opening I already have ready   have you hacked my notepad? 

Nah, without joking,  As I said before, to me it's not about right/wrong, win/lose. But both sides have presented all arguments and neither side is convinced of the other arguments and the sides are very contradicting and I'd like both of us to present the information and someone else to decide which side is more reasonable. In general I am not someone who isn't able to change opinions and I'm actually very flexible, but to me I have contradicted all requirements of the opposing side claiming:



> You: Naruto needs chakra of all biju to use SPSM, which he doesn't have anymore, as he used it all at the end of Vote2. So he hasn't used SPSM after VotE2 and he can't unless he asks for help to all biju to lend him some chakra



So then it feels useless to continue these discussions in multiple threads and having a seperate thread about it and a third party evaluating both our points feel the best resolve. If you reconsider this or would accept a loose debate in a seperate thread about this topic without a word limit or min/max posts, but with a third party concluding, let me know.

If anyone else wants to defend the above quote against my view that's fine for me too



> Me: Naruto used SPSM after VotE2, and if you prove it's required for him to have all Biju chakra, that is not an issue as he has fragments of all Biju chakra inside him.



I'd appreciate if other people threat both sides with respect

Reactions: Winner 2 | Friendly 2


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> Haven't read the rest as it's off topic. Concession accepted


I didn't concede to anything. 

only thing I said was I wasn't going to do a NBCD, you know I wasn't going to do that so what was the point in challenging me in the first place?  If you're that Desperate to try and finally get a win on this Forum that  your willing to do whatever it takes speak about your morals.


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

Sparks said:


> Naruto supposedly used up all the bijuu fragments at VoTE2 and Kurama fell unconscious after transferring the last piece of chakra he had available, yet Naruto was able to undo IT for which having components of all the bijuu chakra is a pre-requisite the next morning.


That was to Advance the plot, unless you think Kishimoto was going to end his series with everyone Trapped in I.T?

It no different then Sakura Touching Limbo right after Sasuke Stating Physical Attacks can't touch it, and Madara stating the same as well as the Databooks Stating People who are connected to Real world can't interact with it, unless they have Six path Senjutsu.

Kishimoto at the end didn't care what made sense, I mean Kamui being able to transverse Dimensions and life and death.

You're trying to put logic into the last few chapters of the series where kishimoto stopped caring about fine line between logical and illogical


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## Monarch (Nov 12, 2021)

@Ludi It's time to let him go, he says he isn't participating in official debates no matter what.

He needs a 10+ page thread where he keeps stonewalling and spams "concession accepted" to make himself feel like a winner.

He even admitted that you'd beat him in an official debate, calls you desperate and immoral for inviting him too.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Rin (Nov 12, 2021)

I've noticed official debates are infrequent here. Did the duck epiphany emerge in this forum?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> I didn't concede to anything.
> 
> only thing I said was I wasn't going to do a NBCD, you know I wasn't going to do that so what was the point in challenging me in the first place?  If you're that Desperate to try and finally get a win on this Forum that  your willing to do whatever it takes speak about your morals.


How can I know you ain't gonna do something. I haven't done one myself either before, but would be open to for this one as I know what I want to post, I know my points and we have been over them for multiple threads. So why would I assume someone that keeps replying about something to me and claims to correct would back down from that? Seems much more helpful that way than any way we have been doing it until now. But if you are not willing to elaborate your points in a dedicated and neutral environment, please don't push them in any less dedicated and less neutral ever again.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> @Ludi It's time to let him go, he says he isn't participating in official debates no matter what.
> 
> He needs a 10+ page thread where he keeps stonewalling and spams "concession accepted" to make himself feel like a winner.
> 
> He even admitted that you'd beat him in an official debate, calls you desperate and immoral for inviting him too.


Never said or admitted he beat me in debate. I said we have difference of views on the situation and their is no point in to writing 500+ words  wasting time in the day thinking about what we are going to writing just to agree to disagree in the end of the debate.

All I'm saying is everyone already knows I don't do NBCD...so what was the point in calling me out when I've said multiple times I don't do that. Who would even judge the debate? 90% of the Site is full of bias People, you're one them.

What I said Was immoral was him Trying to claim victory because I declined his offer to debate it officially, all you can say Is i declined his offer so how would that be a Victory for anyone?  You do things like that As well which I disagree with. Yes it shows you're willing to do anything to claim a victory.


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## GrandBenja (Nov 12, 2021)

Rin said:


> I've noticed official debates are infrequent here.


Yeah. Even my debate offer went unanswered…


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> What I said Was immoral was him Trying to claim victory because I declined his offer to debate it officially.





MYGod000 said:


> Desperate to try and finally get a win on this Forum that your willing to do whatever it takes speak about your morals.





Ludi said:


> As I said before, to me it's not about right/wrong, win/lose


 I'm not pushing it to official debate to claim victory, I didn't know you don't do these ever. 


Ludi said:


> I'd like both of us to present the information and someone else to decide which side is more reasonable. In general I am not someone who isn't able to change opinions and I'm actually very flexible, but to me I have contradicted all requirements of the opposing side


this is why I request it.

Reactions: Friendly 5


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## MYGod000 (Nov 12, 2021)

Ludi said:


> How can I know you ain't gonna do something. I haven't done one myself either before, but would be open to for this one as I know what I want to post, I know my points and we have been over them for multiple threads. So why would I assume someone that keeps replying about something to me and claims to correct would back down from that? Seems much more helpful that way than any way we have been doing it until now. But if you are not willing to elaborate your points in a dedicated and neutral environment, please don't push them in any less dedicated and less neutral ever again.


Fair enough, but truthfully you just randomly be replying to my post in others threads.  Just like Spark be doing the same thing.   If you disagree with What I'm saying that fine you have a right to your own opinion, Wins and losing in debates are apart of it, but claiming victory in a debate that never happened isn't a victory.

it a cheap way of saying "well since you won't debate me i'll just accept that you lost"  yes that pretty desperate  and shows your wiling to take a Victory at anyway you can which shows your morals.

Maybe One day I might  do one of these Discord debates or official debate, but right now I'm not interested in it and you should respect that Decision.  The rate of how the Site is pretty much everyone on the site is bias towards a certain view.

I've said my peace on this already, thank for the offer but no thanks.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Rin (Nov 12, 2021)

Official debates are one of the most useful tools to erect the concreteness of one discussion. Really, the stonewall is one of the most annoying things ever and the official debates are a good way to judge a discussion.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Monarch (Nov 12, 2021)

Rin said:


> Official debates are one of the most useful tools to erect the concreteness of one discussion. Really, the stonewall is one of the most annoying things ever and the official debates are a good way to judge a discussion.


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## Ludi (Nov 12, 2021)

MYGod000 said:


> it a cheap way of saying "well since you won't debate me i'll just accept that you lost" yes that pretty desperate and shows your wiling to take a Victory at anyway you can which shows your morals.



I'm not claiming Victory or proposed it to have a win. I don't like talking circles. You not doing this is fine, then I accept you concede that opportunity (as in give up designed setting for specifically this topic in the most neutral environment). I wouldn't mind waiting for a judge of that remaining 10% we can both agree would be as unbiased as possible. 



Ludi said:


> I'd like both of us to present the information and someone else to decide which side is more reasonable. In general I am not someone who isn't able to change opinions and I'm actually very flexible, but to me I have contradicted all requirements of the opposing side





MYGod000 said:


> The rate of how the Site is pretty much everyone on the site is bias towards a certain view.


I'm not even biased in this topic really, I never chose a side on this one until one sides arguments were more convincing to me and less disproved. If there are other or there will be new arguments in the chapters to come I really don't mind changing perception. But if your reasoning to be right was as I captured in my first post, I just feel these arguments have been disproven. So I just don't understand why we don't agree. That's all. But let's move on.

Unless someone else with the same opinion does want to take it on of course

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Kuzehiko (Nov 12, 2021)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> @Altiora Night @Sparks @Code @kayz @Kenjaku @Kuzehiko @Starkk @Hellblade @Kagutsutchi @Soldierofficial @Grinningfox


Completely obliterated him.
Another day at the office for you.

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Monarch (Nov 12, 2021)

Kuzehiko said:


> Completely obliterated him.
> Another day at the office for you.


Credit goes to @Ludi .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Nov 15, 2021)

@MYGod000, it's your end, any last words?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Kagutsutchi (Nov 15, 2021)

Ludi said:


> Haven't read the rest as it's off topic. Concession accepted


Coolest murder I've seen all year

Reactions: Winner 1 | Friendly 1


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## Monarch (Nov 15, 2021)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @MYGod000, it's your end, any last words?


He'll probably go on a thread with Juudara involved, then spam "concession accepted" while stonewalling for 10 pages to make himself feel better.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Symmetry (Apr 8, 2022)

@Shazam 

I remember we talked about doing this, you down?

Orochimaru with P1 ET vs SM Jman ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Apr 8, 2022)

ObitoOfTheOrangeMask said:


> He'll probably go on a thread with Juudara involved, then spam "concession accepted" while stonewalling for 10 pages to make himself feel better.



You were right


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 28, 2022)

Anyone wanna debate me on Sakura (kaguya fight) vs Juubito?


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## HollowArrow123 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> Anyone wanna debate me on Sakura (kaguya fight) vs Juubito?


Who you have winning btw.


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 28, 2022)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Who you have winning btw.


Sakura blitzes and one shits
Literally zero dif


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## HollowArrow123 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> Sakura blitzes and one shits
> Literally zero dif


With a punch?


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 28, 2022)

HollowArrow123 said:


> With a punch?


Punch or kick yeah


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## HollowArrow123 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> Punch or kick yeah


Didn't she punch Kaguya and I assume was still alive or something


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 28, 2022)

HollowArrow123 said:


> Didn't she punch Kaguya and I assume was still alive or something


She blitzed stabilised Kaguya, who is > normal Kaguya who is > RS Juudara > DR Juudara > 1R GT Juudara > 1R Juudara > Juubito

Thats not even my main argument though

Reactions: Winner 1


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## HollowArrow123 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> She blitzed stabilised Kaguya, who is > normal Kaguya who is > RS Juudara > DR Juudara > 1R GT Juudara > 1R Juudara > Juubito
> 
> Thats not even my main argument though


This is out of my jurisdiction lol

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## MYGod000 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> She blitzed stabilised Kaguya, who is > normal Kaguya who is > RS Juudara > DR Juudara > 1R GT Juudara > 1R Juudara > Juubito
> 
> Thats not even my main argument though


Pffff LMFAO


Yeah...not a chance for Sakura.


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 28, 2022)

MYGod000 said:


> Pffff LMFAO
> 
> 
> Yeah...not a chance for Sakura.


i feel like im one of the few people who dont have you on ignore


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## MYGod000 (Oct 28, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> i feel like im one of the few people who dont have you on ignore


it all good because the ones that do put me on Ignore are like the females in my life.  They always come back Wanting MyGods dinner.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Soul (Oct 28, 2022)

MYGod000 said:


> it all good because the ones that do put me on Ignore are like the females in my life.  They always come back Wanting MyGods dinner.


Why would someone type this, unironically think it's a good thing to post and then actually clicking on the "post reply" button? Jesus Christ.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Ludi (Oct 29, 2022)

MYGod000 said:


> Pffff LMFAO
> 
> 
> Yeah...not a chance for Sakura.



So the 2 of you are going to be having this debate? How many judges you want and how many posts / word count? Which media's are valid to be used?

@WinNo1929

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Disagree 1


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## MYGod000 (Oct 29, 2022)

Ludi said:


> So the 2 of you are going to be having this debate? How many judges you want and how many posts / word count? Which media's are valid to be used?
> 
> @WinNo1929


No, Never agree to debater i'm just saying taht not worthy of a thread since Sakura was seen as Fodder and unable to do anything to stop Naruto and Sasuke from fighting. Win saying she could Blitz Kaguya chakra Arms that Naruto said Was Super Fast, and then being able to Damage Kaguya while she had 360 Vision activated and unable to do anything...but could react to Sasuke Chidori ameno blitz Attempt.

It clear that is outlier because she never again showed that level of power and speed again when she admitted to being useless in stopping VOTE Sasuke and Naruto from fighting. Going by Feats of what she did against Kaguya one would get the idea that Sakura>SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke who both were blitz by Kaguya weakened state.

Kaguya Arc Was a mess.

-Obito and Kakashi being able to move perfectly fine in Kaguya's Gravity Dimension while SPSM Naruto and Sasuke couldn't 

-Sakura being able to dodge Kaguya Chakra Arm when Naruto Said they were super fast

Sakura didn't even Surpass Tsunada until The Last Naruto movie with Toneri...unless you think Tsunada is also more powerful than JJ Obito that thread don't need to be made.


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## WinNo1929 (Oct 29, 2022)

MYGod000 said:


> No, Never agree to debater i'm just saying taht not worthy of a thread since Sakura was seen as Fodder and unable to do anything to stop Naruto and Sasuke from fighting.  Win saying she could Blitz Kaguya chakra Arms that Naruto said Was Super Fast, and then being able to Damage Kaguya while she had 360 Vision activated and unable to do anything...but could react to Sasuke Chidori ameno blitz Attempt.
> 
> It clear that is outlier because she never again showed that level of power and speed again when she admitted to being useless in stopping VOTE Sasuke and Naruto from fighting. Going by Feats of what she did against Kaguya one would get the idea that Sakura>SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke who both were blitz by Kaguya weakened state.



Im just going to be as polite here as possible

I only read the first word of your post and then stopped

You flood every single thread involving Kaguya, Madara and Boruto characters, stone wall and bicker back and forth with people

If you were so passionate, you would debate people like @Ludi and since you have the confidence to post your claims in threads that span over a dozen pages, that same energy would be kept

Except you dont, and it gives the impression that you would rather talk to someone that actually debate, which is fine, but during these discussions you refuse to acknowledge any counter arguments, unironically use arguments such as "well i cant prove it, but neither can you, Urashiki is canon because you cant prove he is on the mural" and stuff like "adult naruto is NEVER stated to be hagoromos level so he isnt - even if he fights people and has feats against Kaguya and people arguably > Kaguya, its never stated so he is below him"

Then you ignore canon (i couldnt help myself from reading some of your reply) and argue things such as


MYGod000 said:


> Sakura was seen as Fodder and unable to do anything to stop Naruto and Sasuke from fighting.


Ignoring that she was literally crying because she didnt want them to fight, was shocked at Sasuke's actions and then got caught off guard by genjutsu when she cried her heart out begging for Sasuke to listen to her.

You will then ignore this blatant piece of evidence 

Im not trying to flame and i dont have anything against you as a person, but when you have such strong opinions that you flood threads with, at least back them up and debate people such as @Ludi so there can be a verdict, rather than endless arguments

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MYGod000 (Oct 29, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> Im just going to be as polite here as possible
> 
> I only read the first word of your post and then stopped
> 
> ...


I stop reading your post after the  first line.   Like I said your  logic for Sakura>JJ Obito is as silly argument.

The Author doesn't even agree with what you're saying, because it only ever stated that Sakura Surpassed Tsunada during 2 years time skip from War during Naruto the Last Movie.  Is Tsunada also>JJ Obito?

Me and Ludi don't see eye on some of the things he say seem logically but when talking about certain characters then he get hypocritical which i don't agree with so best thing for me is to not get involved and let him think what he wants...at least i don't try and stop others from debating in threads which seems to be the case for the other-side.


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## Ludi (Oct 29, 2022)

This is not a place to have the debate. Keep the points for when you have the official debate in a dedicated thread between the two of you

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MYGod000 (Oct 29, 2022)

WinNo1929 said:


> This isnt the place to debate, but ill bite anyways
> 
> No, Sakura explicitly stated Tsunade when she awoke her Byakugou during the WA - there are two seperate statements, one from Hashirama (which actually doesnt make sense but the narrative intent is clear), and the second (most blatant) is when she is directly stated to be on MKCM1 and EMS Sasuke level, which is never contradicted afterwards


Like I said that was undermined by Kishimoto himself when he said she didn't surpass Tsunade until Naruto the Last movie.

Author has  the last say on the matter and has already spoken on it.  LMFAO now you changed the Goalpost from JJ Obito to EMS Sasuke? At least we can conclude she isn't JJ Obito level and it didn't take pages to figure that out.  both of the people you said she directly comparable too are not even Juubi Jin level or even alive EMS Madara level.

I don't need to speak on this anymore and no thread needs to be made involving such a match as Sakura is out of her league against EMS Madara let alone JJ Obito.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Symmetry (Dec 14, 2022)

Since it’s nearing the end of the year, why not go out with a bang? Besides, I’d love to finally settle this once & for all, so why not extend an offer to do this properly?

I challenge @Charmed
The match is Sasori vs Orochimaru with P1 ET
Knowledge is manga
The location is Sannin deadlock
Distance is 20 metres
No restrictions

I’d be fine to do either full feats or feats mixed with portrayal/statements

We could decide on any word limit we deem necessary

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Dec 28, 2022)

@Turrin I challenge you to *Kaguya (immediate post-awakening) vs VoTE Founders*. @Ludi, @t0xeus, and @ThirdRidoku are my judge choices, any two or all three will do and no fewer. This will be VC + chat.

If you don't accept, we can do *Enma vs KN4* instead. Same terms otherwise. Your arrogance must be challenged. I'm repping Kaguya and KN4, obviously.

If you want, I can take on a third debate or even rep Founders or Enma instead (have to clear the topic with me first, however), but then I will accept you have conceded on the first two.

Fail to respond to this challenge at all (unless you have a very good reason to do so), and I will also accept it as a concession.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Lewd 1


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## Aegon Targaryen (Dec 28, 2022)

@Turrin Talk about the challenge here. I've pinged the prospective judges too, save @~Kakashi~ and Worlds who is banned here but not on Discord.


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## Turrin (Dec 28, 2022)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> @Turrin Talk about the challenge here. I've pinged the prospective judges too, save @~Kakashi~ and Worlds who is banned here but not on Discord.


Yeah I won’t accept worlds but otherwise good

Reactions: Friendly 1


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## Mad Scientist (Jan 2, 2023)

Isaiah13000 said:


> How so? When has someone said the Sannin can solo the Gokage or are Hashi and Mads level and can insta GG anyone who isn't a god tier?


*I challenge :* @Isaiah13000
*Match:* Kakashi vs Gokage
*Location:* Sannin Deadlock
*Knowledge:* Manga
*Distance:* 50 m
*Restrictions:* None

OR

*Match:* Kakashi vs Madara
*Location:* Sannin Deadlock
*Knowledge:* Manga
*Distance:* 20 m
*Restrictions:* None

You choose.

My ultimate goal in these debates will be to show why it isn't as extreme as you think.

Here's my proposal on the format:

*Opening post:* 500 word limit (2 days)​*Rebuttal:* 1000 word limit (2 days)​*Intermission (optional):* Discuss various individual points (2 days)​*Conclusion (optional):* 500 word limit (1 day)​​3 Judges.​​Criteria: who made the stronger argument overall.​​Judges have 3 days to submit verdicts. If they don't then we look for another one. If we can't find another one or can't agree on one, then the match will be concluded. If a combatant has 2 votes, they win by default. If it's a tie, it's a draw. If only 1 votes, it's left unresolved.​​Combatants are allowed to pose only 1 reply to each judge (100 words max). This could include for example making a clarification or asking for clarification. Judges are allowed to reformulate their verdicts once but must provide sufficient detail on their reasoning.​

Reactions: Like 3 | Kage 1


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## WinNo1929 (Monday at 4:53 AM)

*I challenge: *@MYGod000
*Match:* Boruto era Bijuu is stronger or ~ to the WA Bijuu
*Location: *Hokage Office
*Knowledge:* Manga
*Distance:* 5m
*Restrictions:* Brainfarts

VC, lets do it buddy

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Aegon Targaryen (Monday at 5:16 PM)

WinNo1929 said:


> *I challenge: *@MYGod000
> *Match:* Boruto era Bijuu is stronger or ~ to the WA Bijuu
> *Location: *Hokage Office
> *Knowledge:* Manga
> ...



This sounds interesting

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ludi (Tuesday at 7:54 AM)

Aegon Targaryen said:


> This sounds interesting


Probably won't happen either

Reactions: Funny 2


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## WinNo1929 (Tuesday at 9:07 AM)

Ludi said:


> Probably won't happen either


@MYGod000 

Lets do it buddy boy dont be scared


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## WinNo1929 (Tuesday at 9:09 PM)

@Ludi @Aegon Targaryen 

@MYGod000 seems unwilling to participate in a formal debate as it "takes too long" despite being a key player in dozens of threads spanning over 10 pages long

lol

Reactions: Funny 1 | Friendly 1


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## Ludi (Yesterday at 8:14 AM)

WinNo1929 said:


> @Ludi @Aegon Targaryen
> 
> @MYGod000 seems unwilling to participate in a formal debate as it "takes too long" despite being a key player in dozens of threads spanning over 10 pages long
> 
> lol

Reactions: Funny 1


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