# Rayleigh vs Doflamingo & Hancock



## Marcο (Mar 31, 2013)

Location: Banaro Island
Distance: 20 Meters
Knowledge: Full
State of mind: Bloodlusted

Add Vista to Rayleigh's team if he loses.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2013)

Rayleigh destroys them.


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## Imagine (Mar 31, 2013)

Giving it to Ray. He was able to keep up with an admiral, Dolfa got stopped by one. It was due to Aokiji's abilities, but yeah. And I consider Hancock more or less on Dolfa's level.


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## TrainerRed (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflamingo and Hancock.


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## Extravlad (Mar 31, 2013)

Rayleigh should wins.

Pirate king's right hand man will not loses against two shichibukai with no hype or feats.


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## Shingy (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflamingo and Hancock with mid difficulty.

Second scenario, Rayleigh and Jozu win with mid difficulty.


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## SunRise (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflamingo >= Aokiji now. Here also Hancock. But Rayleigh Haki could be superior to Doffy's. Seems like Hancock is no factor here as she nowhere near Admiral level, but she must provide some advantage through. I'll give it to shichibukai team - high-extreme diff.


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## Extravlad (Mar 31, 2013)

> Doflamingo >= Aokiji


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## Unclear Justice (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> *Doflamingo >= Aokiji now.* Here also Hancock. But Rayleigh Haki could be superior to Doffy's. Seems like Hancock is no factor here as she nowhere near Admiral level, but she must provide some advantage through. I'll give it to shichibukai team - high-extreme diff.



Where does that come from?



If Team Shichibukai gets a clean hit on Rayleigh it should be pretty much over, because he will be either controlled or he loses a limb due to petrification or separation.

I give them the benefit of the doubt here.


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## RF (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> Doflamingo >= Aokiji



Based on ...?


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## Zyrax (Mar 31, 2013)

is this prime or old?


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## Lord Melkor (Mar 31, 2013)

Hmm, I am not sure, though I think that Rayleigh in his prime would definately take it.


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## SunRise (Mar 31, 2013)

> Where does that come from?





> Based on ...?


Jozu which kept busy Ao was easily owned by Doffy. Chapter 699 also. 



> is this prime or old?


Prime Rayleigh feats?


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## RF (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> Jozu which kept busy Ao was easily owned by Doffy. Chapter 699 also.



You do realize that Jozu was like off-guard,and Do's abilities are one of the most hax in OP?

I'd love to see what would happen if Jozu got to slam Do in the ground while he's off-guard.

Not to mention that he didn't do ANYTHING to him,besides disabling him from moving for a short amount of time.

Also,chapter 699?

Kuzan froze Dofla casually with his hand in his pockets,and almost put him down.

His subordinates were actually questioning if their boss was dead.

He then broke through the ice while being exhausted as seen on panel,and then proceeded to back out of the fight.

Also,the fact that Doflamingo was terrified when Law threatened him with an admiral speaks multitudes of where he actually stands.


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## cry77 (Mar 31, 2013)

Just leave it, he must be trolling.

Ray wins


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## SunRise (Mar 31, 2013)

> You do realize that Jozu was like off-guard,and Do's abilities are one of the most hax in OP?


He wasn't offguard  - he was offmind - retarded enough to not pay attention at DD which stood in 1 meter from Croc.



> I'd love to see what would happen if Jozu got to slam Do in the ground while he's off-guard.


DD standing from the ground like it was nothing. for example  

I don't see any difference - be it straight fight or what happened in Marineford.



> Not to mention that he didn't do ANYTHING to him,besides disabling him from moving for a short amount of time.


He casually *ride him like a pony* and continue conversation with Croc. If that is not a way to show character's supremacy - I give up. 



> Kuzan froze Dofla casually with his hand in his pockets,and almost put him down.


Same I can say about DD - kinda he casually broke Ao's ice. 



> His subordinates were actually questioning if their boss was dead.


Another evidence that Ao was serious attacking him. 


> He then broke through the ice while being *exhausted* as seen on panel,and then proceeded to back out of the fight.


Yea - he clearly out off all his stamina here  Thats how I understand term "exhausted" - not only 3 fucking humble pants and smiling face which indicates opposite. 



He wasn't exhausted, these 3 pants says that it took some effort for him.



> Also,the fact that Doflamingo was terrified when Law threatened him with an admiral speaks multitudes of where he actually stands.


He actually shown signs of fear only about Kaido.



> proceeded to back out of the fight.


1. No *time* for this. It actually could took - not even hours but a lot of days.
2. Do you wanna die? I think - anyone in OP fighting Admiral risks his life. And being *not completely retarded as Luffy *DD just done right decision.


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## RF (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> He wasn't offguard  - he was offmind - retarded enough to not pay attention at DD which stood in 1 meter from Croc.



Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a legit battle.





VioletHood said:


> DD standing from the ground like it was nothing. for example
> 
> I don't see any difference - be it straight fight or what happened in Marineford.



If Jozu slammed DD,he'd be torn apart. Honestly,DD is hax,and he caught him off-guard,

If Law caught DD off-guard,he'd slice him apart.

Does that mean Law>DD? No.



VioletHood said:


> He casually *ride him like a pony* and continue conversation with Croc. If that is not a way to show character's supremacy - I give up.



He didn't ride him,he just stopped him. Jozu could injure Aokiji,stop Mihawk's slash,and he has the best strength feat in the entire manga. DD doesn't have shit compared to that.



VioletHood said:


> Same I can say about DD - kinda he casually broke Ao's ice.



Nope,he didn't. His subordinates believed he was dead,and he broke out while panting. There would be no reason to include panting in that scene,if it didn't faze him in any way.



VioletHood said:


> Another evidence that Ao was serious attacking him.



Nope. More evidence that Aokiji is massively above him. How can you say he was serious about attacking him when he didn't even pull his hands out of his pockets?



VioletHood said:


> Yea - he clearly out off all his stamina here  Thats how I understand term "exhausted" - not only 3 fucking humble pants and smiling face which indicates opposite.
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't exhausted, these 3 pants says that it took some effort for him.



It took effort from him to escape one move from Aokiji which he did,I repeat,without putting his hands out of his pocket.



VioletHood said:


> He actually shown signs of fear only about Kaido.



Law put him in a position where he is fucked either way,as he himself stated. He said if he doesn't resign,Kaido would stomp him,if he does resign,admirals hunt him down.

Also,the fact that Sakazuki sent Fujitora alone,who is most likely weaker than the original pre-skip trio to overlook the entire situation ,which includes not only Do,but Luffy,Law and the entire alliance speaks for itself.


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## SunRise (Mar 31, 2013)

*Sakazuki*, you basically just said - "No, you wrong" without any decent refutations .


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## RF (Mar 31, 2013)

No,I elaborated every argument I made,it's just that you refuse to abandon your asinine belief that someone who is going to be taken down this very arc is more powerful than the greatest military asset of the marines.


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflamingo & Hancock take this.

Doflamingo is stronger than Hancock, same level my ass. 


Rayleigh is stronger than either of them individually, but having both of them against him is too much. 

And @Sakazuki, Ignore VioletHood, he is not making sense. 

  Doflamingo stopped Jozu, but Jozu couldn't do anything either. Doflamingo was nonchalant about it, but Jozu was struggling to break out of his control. Doflamingo would definitely get wrecked by an Admiral, but he's most likely a bit stronger than Jozu. Not by a huge margin, but it still seems obvious. One can say that Doflamingo has nothing to injure Jozu with, but Jozu couldn't break out of his control *at the time*


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## cry77 (Mar 31, 2013)

> Doflamingo would definitely get wrecked by an Admiral, but he's most likely a bit stronger than Jozu


You cant be a little stronger than jozu and still getting wrecked by an admiral


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## Bellamy The Hyena (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> Doflamingo >= Aokiji now. Here also Hancock. But Rayleigh Haki could be superior to Doffy's. Seems like Hancock is no factor here as she nowhere near Admiral level, but she must provide some advantage through. I'll give it to shichibukai team - high-extreme diff.



I'm opening up a course soon in, *"Wanking your favourite anime/manga characters online". *I highly suggest you be the first person to sign up.

A few tips,

1) When there's just been an on panel encounter between two of the characters, you *have *to make a reference to that even if it didn't result in a favourable victory to your guy. Not mentioning it allows an easy counter point.

2) You need to do more to downplay your opponent more. Rayleigh is old, hasn't been active in a long while, probably drunk and stoned ...... emphasise that a lot more.




Anyway, Rayleigh takes this high difficulty.


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## Zyrax (Mar 31, 2013)

fuck it. fuck it all. DD=Marco


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## Minato Namikaze. (Mar 31, 2013)

Extravlad said:


> Rayleigh should wins.
> 
> Pirate king's right hand man will not loses against two shichibukai with no hype or feats.



No Hype and no feats ha begone troll


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## cry77 (Mar 31, 2013)

Bellamy The Hyena said:


> I'm opening up a course soon in, *"Wanking your favourite anime/manga characters online". *I highly suggest you be the first person to sign up.
> 
> A few tips,
> 
> ...


arent you the one who claims bellamy can beat EB luffy?


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## SunRise (Mar 31, 2013)

> Doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a legit battle.


Jozu was punished for lack of attention - he *saw* him - technically he wasn't off-guard even.  



> If Jozu slammed DD,he'd be torn apart.


Based on? My example just as legit as yours. 



> He didn't ride him,he just stopped him.


Are yous seriously arguing that he didnt ride him as pony? Its a figure of speech, dude, 



> Jozu could injure Aokiji,stop Mihawk's slash,and he has the best strength feat in the entire manga. DD doesn't have shit compared to that.


And all that wasn't enough to break Dofla's threads.Your point? 



> Nope,he didn't. His subordinates believed he was dead,and he broke out while panting. There would be no reason to include panting in that scene,if it didn't faze him in any way.


As I said it wasn't completely casual via dat 3 pants. No signs of *serious fatigue* aeither. Some effort - a little effort.



> Law put him in a position where he is fucked either way,as he himself stated. He said if he doesn't resign,Kaido would stomp him,if he does resign,admirals hunt him down.
> 
> Also,the fact that Sakazuki sent Fujitora alone,who is most likely weaker than the original pre-skip trio to overlook the entire situation ,which includes not only Do,but Luffy,Law and the entire alliance speaks for itself.


He still was scared only bu Kaido. Law fucked him indeed  

I don't think that you can interp Akainu's words about featless character like this. Also doesn't he meant sending Fujitora for Luffy and Law?...



> *Nope. More evidence that Aokiji is massively above him*. How can you say he was serious about attacking him when he didn't even pull his hands out of his pockets?


I got nothing against this twisted logic.   Such shouting actually basically means nothing except drama and attraction of our attention, dude. He frozen surroundings?  And more confidence for Smoker's survival? And wtw - reasons not to attack seriously? Pocket thing is pretty cool, but this doesn't mean that his attack wasn't enough to froze Ao to death. 

DD quite easily break through Ao's ice attack which could cause his death. Nothing more.



> It took effort from him to escape one move from Aokiji which he did,I repeat,without putting his hands out of his pocket.


It took 3 pants - I'd say - almoust no effort. Effort is when you at least trying. Not even saying about trying hard. Without pants it looks like pretty casual. 



> And @Sakazuki, Ignore VioletHood, he is not making sense.


Only because I'm red?  



> If Law caught DD off-guard,he'd slice him apart.
> 
> Does that mean Law>DD? No.


There is a difference. Law's chances VS DD 1v1 = 0, DD's shances VS Jozu 1v1 = fucking great.  Also. Honestly - there is no reasons to say that in 1VS1 he would not be restricted same way. One decent argument - cogruts.


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

cry77 said:


> You cant be a little stronger than jozu and still getting wrecked by an admiral



Not really, considering the fact that Jozu would still get wrecked by an Admiral.

And by wrecked I didn't mean lolstomp or rape, I mean that he would still handily lose.


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## Shinthia (Mar 31, 2013)

Old Ray lose this high-xtrm diff.
Prime Ray destroyes them

S2: Ray and Vista wins

BTW OP, Kenshin looks different but awesome in ur set.


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

Shit didn't see Vista added here.

Rayleigh>Doflamingo

Vista>Hancock

The Rayleigh team takes it in that scenario


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## Luis209 (Mar 31, 2013)

> DD quite easily break through Ao's ice attack which could cause his death. Nothing more.


Seriously. There are still people that thinks Doflamingo would have a chance against Aokiji? Aokiji didnt't even touch him, that's the reason for Doflamingo breaking the ice, and even afer breaking the ice he shows fatigue.


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## Bellamy The Hyena (Mar 31, 2013)

cry77 said:


> arent you the one who claims bellamy can beat EB luffy?



I never asserted that but thinking about it .... it would have been close. Bellamy was a lot stronger then he was portrayed and is regarded on here.



Doflαmingo said:


> Not really, considering the fact that Jozu would still get wrecked by an Admiral.
> 
> And by wrecked I didn't mean lolstomp or rape, I mean that he would still handily lose.



I agree. Jozu alongside any of the other remaining Whitebeard commanders would get handily molested were they to face a serious and committed Admiral.

Distraction or not, Aokiji barely broke a sweat dealing with him in a matter of minutes at Marineford. Contrast this to the ten days and toil he he endured having to fight someone his equal and someone who's actually admiral level, Akainu. Oda made it abundantly clear through this the fact that Admirals are in a completely different stratosphere to Whitebeard commanders. 

This is why I always laugh at people who try and claim such ridiculous notions as Marco, Jozu and Vista being Admiral level - they always overlook the real facts and feats presented and cling onto their like of these characters and their morally "good guy" status as some kind of justification for them being more powerful then they really are.


Anyway we're off topic. Have I already said Rayleigh takes this high difficulty?


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

Bellamy The Hyena said:


> I never asserted that but thinking about it .... it would have been close. Bellamy was a lot stronger then he was portrayed and is regarded on here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said Marco & Jozu were Admiral level lol

They're not. 

Jozu gets handily defeated by an Admiral and I'm not changing that stance. 

Doflamingo isn't so much stronger than Jozu that it would really make a difference, which is the point that people are missing. I believe Doflamingo can beat Jozu at extreme diff, thus making him only a small bit stronger. It doesn't make some significant difference in his performance against an Admiral.

The Admirals ARE on completely different stratospheres compared to the WB Commanders.


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## Bellamy The Hyena (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> I never said Marco & Jozu were Admiral level lol
> 
> They're not.
> 
> ...



Yeah sorry about that. I miss read your post for some reason.  Yep I agree, an Admiral could slaughter a Whitebeard commander without that much difficulty if they wanted to.

I also agree with the rest of your analysis, Doflamingo can beat Jozu high difficulty but I don't think that has much of an influence on the outcome of this battle. Rayleigh is also in a different league to a Whitebeard commander.


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

^I'd say Marco can give any Admiral high diff though, but he's the only commander who could pull it off.


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## Lord Melkor (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> ^I'd say Marco can give any Admiral high diff though, but he's the only commander who could pull it off.



I would say that Jozu could do this as well, though it depends on what you call hard difficulty. The commanders were certainly a huge factor in MF battle, without them WB would be jumped by the Admirals and they would lose at the very beginning of battle.


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## Mihawk (Mar 31, 2013)

Lord Melkor said:


> I would say that Jozu could do this as well, though it depends on what you call hard difficulty. The commanders were certainly a huge factor in MF battle, without them WB would be jumped by the Admirals and they would lose at the very beginning of battle.



True Jozu deserves some recognition. He does have the second best pure strength feat in the series so far. 

Still, I'd say an unrestricted Admiral would be able to put him in his place.

He's not far from Marco at all though. I more or less think they're in the same tier, although there's some difference in their strength


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## tanman (Mar 31, 2013)

Probably a very close match. It just depends on how much of a factor Hancock is.


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## White (Mar 31, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> Doflamingo >= Aokiji now. Here also Hancock. But Rayleigh Haki could be superior to Doffy's. Seems like Hancock is no factor here as she nowhere near Admiral level, but she must provide some advantage through. I'll give it to shichibukai team - high-extreme diff.



*I thought Luke Kent was posting this for a moment 

Rayleigh tears them to shreds.*


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2013)

1. Doflamingo was not panting it was smoker who was still panting as he was before aiming attacked dd

2. DD and Hancock win.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2013)

I don't know what manga you guys are reading, but Rayleigh can one shot Doflamingo, and then he one shots Hancock. Did Aokiji not make that clear?

The Shichibukai get raped.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2013)

1. Aokiji>Rayleigh.

2. Aokiji did not one shot any warlords or anyone of dd/hancocks level and even if he did aokiji is hax and can one shot anyone in the manga if given the chance so moot point.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Aokiji>Rayleigh.



In stamina, which only would be relevant in a prolonged fight. Doflamingo and Hancock cannot give Rayleigh a long fight as Rayeligh is much stronger than both of them.

In haki and other stats, Rayleigh is just as good as the Admirals. 





Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 2. Aokiji did not one shot any warlords or anyone of dd/hancocks level and even if he did aokiji is hax and can one shot anyone in the manga if given the chance so moot point.



Aokiji had Doflamingo panting while having his hands in his pockets, that means there's an insane gap betwene them and if Aokiji wanted, Doflaimingo would easily have died on Punk Hazard, don't confuse Aokiji's personailty with his powers.

Also what? Magnellan also has hax powers and can one shot, however that doesn't mean Magnellan would ever lay a finger on Doflamingo lol, Doflamingo got owned because he's trash compared to Aokiji, simple as that.

Not to mention, swordsman have some of the best one shotting abilities in the manga, Doflamingo is getting sliced and so is Hancock. One slash for each of them.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2013)

Avalon said:


> In stamina, which only would be relevant in a prolonged fight. Doflamingo and Hancock cannot give Rayleigh a long fight as Rayeligh is much stronger than both of them.
> 
> In haki and other stats, Rayleigh is just as good as the Admirals.
> 
> ...



1. Nope Aokiji>overall and in everything besides haki and of course swordsmanship. Stamina won't be a issue I agree as Rayleigh is not going to last to long agasint two people who can one shot him.

2. Doflamingo was not panting, that was smoker who was still panting like he was on the page before aokiji attacked DD. Aokiji attacked and was easily and swiftly countered by DD who had his back turned to him, if there was a massive gap he would of died or at least had some sort of injurie. You missed the point im saying aokiji one shoting someone means shit as he is hax, is jozu fodder cause he got one shot by aokiji nope. 

Its 2v1 Doflamingo restrains Rayleigh and Hancock kicks him GG, or Hancock shakes her boobs and Dd cuts his head off take your pick.


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## Luis209 (Mar 31, 2013)

Doflamingo was panting, not Smoker -.- It was clear that Doflamingo was the one who panting after breaking the ice. Let's not change the manga facts.


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## A Optimistic (Mar 31, 2013)

Donquixote Doflamingo said:


> 1. Nope Aokiji>overall and in everything besides haki and of course swordsmanship.



Which is why Rayleigh and Kizaru were fighting equally, right?



> Stamina won't be a issue I agree as Rayleigh is not going to last to long agasint two people who can one shot him.



Lol what a joke, Aokiji was able to freeze Doflamingo before he could even attack Smoker, Doflamingo will have a large cut before he even gets an attack off at Rayleigh.



> 2. Doflamingo was not panting, that was smoker who was still panting like he was on the page before aokiji attacked DD.



.....

It was Doflamingo panting because it was extremely difficult for Doflamingo to break out of a casual easy attack from Aokiji.

Seriously, now you're going to start denying canon events? 




> Aokiji attacked and was easily and swiftly countered by DD who had his back turned to him,



Are we even reading the same manga? Doflamingo tried attacking Smoker, and Aokiji froze him before Doflaimingo could even finish his attack, meaning Aokiji's attack speed is much faster that Doflamingo's. 

Doflamingo broke out easily and swiftly? That's why Doflamingo was panting like crazy, that's why his subordinates were so scared for Doflamingo's life.



> if there was a massive gap he would of died or at least had some sort of injurie.



Why would he have died? Aokiji wasn't trying to kill him, hence why Aokiji's hands are still in his pockets, meaning he's not even trying.

And why would ice leave an injury...?

There is a massive gap, Aokiji showed his attack speed is far greater, a casual attack from Aokiji had Doflamingo panting for his life. Why do you think Doflamingo ran away, even though he badly wanted to kill every Marine there, he knew he was too weak to deal with Aokiji. Also, Doflamingo was shitting bricks at the thought of fighting Kaidou or an Admiral several chapters ago, and finally, Akainu only sent out 1 Admiral to deal with Law Luffy and Doflamingo for a reason. 



> You missed the point im saying aokiji one shoting someone means shit as he is hax, is jozu fodder cause he got one shot by aokiji nope.



No you missed my point, I'm saying having a hax ability doesn't mean anything agansit a top tier. 

And Aokiji failed to freeze Aokiji before he got caught off-guard, Aokiji could freeze Doflamingo easily whenever he wants.



> Its 2v1 Doflamingo restrains Rayleigh and Hancock kicks him GG, or Hancock shakes her boobs and Dd cuts his head off take your pick.



Rayleigh will cut Doflamingo before he even uses his powers as Aokiji clearly proved. And then Rayleigh one shots Hancock, the end.


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## Extravlad (Mar 31, 2013)

Rayleigh hype >>>> DD and Hancock hype.

Rayleigh feats >>>> DD and Hancock feats.


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## convict (Mar 31, 2013)

Hancock doesn't make enough difference to bridge the gap between Doflamingo and Rayleigh.


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2013)

Dofla and Hancock should win this.
Rayleigh is strong, but I doubt he can compete with both of them at the same time.


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## Canute87 (Mar 31, 2013)

Well this is new.

I'm giving to  Rayleigh.

Just because flamingo held Josu doesn't mean that the same thing is going to apply to Rayleigh. Just like how Flamingo was able to break out of Kiji's casual frozen attack Flamingo grabbing you with the strings isn't absolute and their should be a way to break out of it whether or not Rayleigh's even going to get caught in the first place because hancock stands no chance against him.

His Haki is considerably better and more refined than the other two. His swordsmanship is legendary just because he hasn't used a sword in a while doesn't mean the devastating attacks he learned in his wonder years were forgotten.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2013)

Avalon said:


> Which is why Rayleigh and Kizaru were fighting equally, right?



Which is why he was panting while kizaru was fighting him with a sword. Kizaru>Rayleigh to.





> Lol what a joke, Aokiji was able to freeze Doflamingo before he could even attack Smoker, Doflamingo will have a large cut before he even gets an attack off at Rayleigh.



Yea if Rayleigh was standing directly behind DD while dd was doing something else he should be able to slash him in the back. To bad that's not the case in this fight nor is it DD vs Rayleigh.




> It was Doflamingo panting because it was extremely difficult for Doflamingo to break out of a casual easy attack from Aokiji.



This is the part where you prove your assumptions.

We have smoker panting in the page before, DD breaks out of the attack in the next page with a huge grin on his face which of course means it took all his strength, and apparently smoker has stopped panting and now DD is panting heavily with a huge ass grin on his face.

Just think about that again lmao.



> Seriously, now you're going to start denying canon events?



Re-read the chapter is all I can say. :ignoramus






> Are we even reading the same manga? Doflamingo tried attacking Smoker, and Aokiji froze him before Doflaimingo could even finish his attack, meaning Aokiji's attack speed is much faster that Doflamingo's.



No it means Aokijis attack speed is faster then doflamingo, his hand was right above smokers chest aka aokiji barley made it so it was not much faster, and that's assuming aokiji did not use coo to predict dd was about to attack and start up his attack as well.

Regardless I never said DD attack speed was on the same level as Aokijis anyway or that DD was aokiji level at all.



> Doflamingo broke out easily and swiftly? That's why Doflamingo was panting like crazy, that's why his subordinates were so scared for Doflamingo's life.



Yep there was no difference in when White beard broke out of Aokijis Ice besides that dd did not presumably use his df like wb did, and again he was not panting.

They saw him get frozen what were his subordinates suppose to think, people thought wb was in trouble when he got froze, and the marines thought aokiji died when wb stabbed him.





> Why would he have died? Aokiji wasn't trying to kill him, hence why Aokiji's hands are still in his pockets, meaning he's not even trying.



You said he was a lot weaker then Aokiji. Without medical treatment you lose body parts or your life from Aokijis attacks re-reads Aokijis introduction. If DD did not counter his attack he would of been frozen solid aka a dead man.



> And why would ice leave an injury...?



The same way light injuries you in this manga it just does. But your right a former admiral is weak as hell he can't hurt a fly.



> There is a massive gap, Aokiji showed his attack speed is far greater, a casual attack from Aokiji had Doflamingo panting for his life. Why do you think Doflamingo ran away, even though he badly wanted to kill every Marine there, he knew he was too weak to deal with Aokiji. Also, Doflamingo was shitting bricks at the thought of fighting Kaidou or an Admiral several chapters ago, and finally, Akainu only sent out 1 Admiral to deal with Law Luffy and Doflamingo for a reason.



1. If there was a massive gap Aokiji would of kicked his ass back in PH I mean he did just fuck up his friend smoker why not kick some ass and throw a evil pirate in impel down. 

2. He did not show his attack speed is a lot greater. 

3. DD was not panting. Try something out for me grin, and when I say grin I mean joker level grin, now pant like you never did before...does doflamingos face look like a man who is panting for his life...nope  

4. He left because he had better things to do then lose to Aokiji, even if he thought he could beat Aokiji it would not be worth it. 

5. Nope re-read the chapter. He only got scared at the thought of going to war with kaidou.

6. Akainu sent a Admiral to deal with law and luffy not doflamingo. 



> No you missed my point, I'm saying having a hax ability doesn't mean anything agansit a top tier.



It means less agasint a top tier cause they have more methods to counter it, but as DD showed agasint jozu it is hardly useless and still serves its function.



> And Aokiji failed to freeze Aokiji before he got caught off-guard, Aokiji could freeze Doflamingo easily whenever he wants.



Not sure who your referring to that aokiji failed to freeze.

Aokiji froze white beard so yes he could freeze DD easily, if you mean kill him then lol no.





> Rayleigh will cut Doflamingo before he even uses his powers as Aokiji clearly proved. And then Rayleigh one shots Hancock, the end.



I was unaware Rayeligh is standing directly behind DD while he attacks someone like aokiji was, I also forgot Hancock is stupid and will stand there doing nothing intil Rayleigh comes to cut her.

Also again Aokiji>Rayleigh.


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## Akitō (Mar 31, 2013)

The fact that Doflamingo had his back turned to Aokiji indicates that he isn't very far below an Admiral. Doflamingo was confident that he could guard against any of Aokiji's initial attacks, and that _does_ point towards them being not too far apart from each other. I'm not sure how close Hancock is to that level, but if she's anywhere close, then Doflamingo and her should have a good chance of beating Rayleigh. I think Doflamingo by himself could give Rayleigh a 'mid-diff.' battle, so it just depends on how strong Hancock is.


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## Donquixote Doflamingo (Mar 31, 2013)

Also what Akito said hancocks level matters most in this fight.

IMO I think Hancock is a borderline top tier, she will be top tier eventually, and DD/Rayleigh are low top tiers with DD on the low end with vista, and Rayleigh on the high end with Marco.


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## Luis209 (Mar 31, 2013)

Aokiji is not a marine anymore, it not his business send Doflamingo to Impel Down. 

It was Doflamingo painting and no Smoker.

Actually, Akainu send an Admiral to observe for a day.

Seriously, let fanaticism alone.


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2013)

It was Smoker panting


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## Canute87 (Mar 31, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> It was Smoker panting



Actually it was flamingo.



Given where the bubbles are and what had just transpired it made no sense for it to be Smoker.


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## Zorofangirl24 (Mar 31, 2013)

Reyleigh wins extreme diff sc1
Add vista in then team reyleigh wins low diff


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2013)

Canute87 said:


> Actually it was flamingo.
> 
> 
> 
> Given where the bubbles are and what had just transpired it made no sense for it to be Smoker.



You might be right. But  why would the bubble be so far and  the arrow kinda pointing down while Dofla is standing over there, + how can you pant and smile at the same time. You can, but it's stupid.


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## Marcο (Mar 31, 2013)

I'd just like to point out that it was Doflamingo that was panting. It was confirmed in a translation by cnet.



> Doflamingo: *pant*... // *pant* / *pant*...





As for this fight, I'd give it to Rayleigh high-extreme difficulty. I certainly don't think that either side would be fodderized or beaten low/mid difficulty though. Rayleigh has been portrayed in a better light against an Admiral than Doflamingo has. While Rayleigh was also panting against Kizaru, it was after they had begun to clash (due to stamina issues). Meanwhile Aokiji casually attacked Dofla and had him panting. Rayleigh has also been hyped significantly better seeing as Garp mentioned him in the same breath as Whitebeard. 

While I think Doflamingo alone should be able to give Rayleigh at least a mid-high difficulty fight, I don't see Hancock being strong enough to close the distance between them.


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## Canute87 (Mar 31, 2013)

oOLawlietOo said:


> You might be right. But  why would the bubble be so far and  the arrow kinda pointing down while Dofla is standing over there, + how can you pant and smile at the same time. You can, but it's stupid.



Well that's apart of Flamingo's persona. Weird I know.


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## Lawliet (Mar 31, 2013)

Shαnks said:


> I'd just like to point out that it was Doflamingo that was panting. It was confirmed in a translation by cnet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, I guess that settles it.


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## Canute87 (Mar 31, 2013)

My man Shanks


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## Kingtew (Mar 31, 2013)

Shαnks said:


> I'd just like to point out that it was Doflamingo that was panting. It was confirmed in a translation by cnet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You resolved this thread rather nicely.


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## SunRise (Apr 1, 2013)

So, Doflamingo wasn't even panting - it was Smo-yan?...

*Shαnks*, DD was sure exhausted  - without any of his stamina.  Just by 3 pants. Also he could not even pant. 

*Kingtew*,  such a strong confirmation - specially while DD's face says otherwise. 




> It was Doflamingo panting because it was extremely difficult for Doflamingo to break out of a casual easy attack from Aokiji.


Its utter bullshit, dude. Except 3 Smoker's pants (?) nothing says it even took effort for him.


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## Shinthia (Apr 1, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> Shit didn't see Vista added here.
> 
> Rayleigh>Doflamingo
> 
> ...



If Vista > Hancock is really true. Then Old Ray should win this. Cause any fighter below Vista wount be enough to close the gap between Ray and Dofla


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## Kingtew (Apr 1, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> So, Doflamingo wasn't even panting - it was Smo-yan?...
> 
> *Shαnks*, DD was sure exhausted  - without any of his stamina.  Just by 3 pants. Also he could not even pant.
> 
> ...



Cnet's translation are usually very accurate. If you can translate the raw scans and tell me who was *really* panting, then I'll concede. If not, oh well......


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## Harard (Apr 1, 2013)

Rayleigh wins.


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## cry77 (Apr 1, 2013)

DD was probably panting from all the screaming and anger instead of the actual fighting.


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## SunRise (Apr 1, 2013)

*Kingtew*, at least DD's face indicates that he are not exhausted at all  Also 2 pants are far away from Dofla.  Another words - someone can even assume that Smo and D panting togeter pek


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## Mihawk (Apr 1, 2013)

Lionel Messi said:


> If Vista > Hancock is really true. Then Old Ray should win this. Cause any fighter below Vista wount be enough to close the gap between Ray and Dofla



The only flawed part of that logic is that just because I said VIsta>Hancock, doesn't mean that I think there is some huge or tier worthy difference between them.

Just enough for Vista being added to even further the chances of the victory of Dofla's team imo. 

I don't see Rayleigh beating both Doflamingo & Hancock, let alone Doflamingo and Vista, especially in his old age.


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## Shinthia (Apr 1, 2013)

Doflαmingo said:


> *The only flawed part of that logic *is that just because I said VIsta>Hancock, doesn't mean that I think there is some huge or tier worthy difference between them.
> 
> Just enough for Vista being added to even further the chances of the victory of Dofla's team imo.
> 
> I don't see Rayleigh beating both Doflamingo & Hancock, let alone Doflamingo and Vista, especially in his old age.


i never said that u said Vista is one level above Hancock .

" If Vista > Hancock is really true. Then Old Ray should win this. *Cause any fighter below Vista* wount be enough to close the gap between Ray and Dofla "

same level or not it does not change the fact that Vista > Hancock (in ur opinion).Anyone who is weaker than Vista wount make a difference here. 

I personally think Hancock >= Vista . Thats why i said Ray would lose. If i am wrong about Hancock >= Vista and Hancock is weaker, then imo Ray can take this with xtrm diff.


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## GaaraoftheDesert1 (Apr 1, 2013)

Rayleigh seems too old to take them.. and he obviously has been out of shape...
If it was pre ts Garp or Sengoku I would give it to them but currently I doubt old rayleigh who fights once in years can take on two low-top-high high tiers...


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## Kingtew (Apr 1, 2013)

VioletHood said:


> *Kingtew*, *at least DD's face indicates that he are not exhausted at all * Also 2 pants are far away from Dofla.  Another words - someone can even assume that Smo and D panting togeter pek



he usually smiles. like how Urouge was smiling even though Kizaru was about t kick him.


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## SsjAzn (Apr 2, 2013)

Rayleigh with mid to high difficulty. He's still stronger than the both of them combined. Even at an old age, he can clash with an admiral, considered a threat to the Marines individually, and has heck ton of experience fighting in the New World.


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