# G4 Luffy vs Old Rayleigh



## Finalbeta (Mar 19, 2016)

* Conditions: * No time limit for G4
* Location: * Sabaody archipelago
* Distance: * 50m


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## TheWiggian (Mar 19, 2016)

Nothing changed. Ray still wins with high (mid) diff.


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## gold ace (Mar 19, 2016)

G4 Luffy wins mid ish diff. MAYBE lower end of high diff if Rayleigh has been keeping shape over the Ts


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 19, 2016)

Old Rayleigh takes it with solid mid-diff.


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## Hosemisnuba (Mar 19, 2016)

I think people are underestimating G4 Luffy. G4 allowed Luffy to trample Doflamingo, who is the highest of high tiers. If Gear Fourth, as it is now, was infinite, I bet the only fighters who would could actually manage to fight him and beat him are admirals, Yonkou, and the rest of mid-high top tiers. Of course, that would include Rayleigh, but I highly doubt it would take anything less than high difficulty to put Luffy down (with the exception of Kaidou, who I think would mid difficulty him).


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## Finalbeta (Mar 19, 2016)

gold ace said:


> G4 Luffy wins mid ish diff. MAYBE lower end of high diff if Rayleigh has been keeping shape over the Ts





King Itachi said:


> Old Rayleigh takes it with solid mid-diff.



Decide yourselves who mid diffs who


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## gold ace (Mar 19, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Decide yourselves who mid diffs who



G4 Luffy low diffed Doffy, who's slightly weaker than old Rayleigh. So g4 mid diffs


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## Finalbeta (Mar 19, 2016)

gold ace said:


> G4 Luffy low diffed Doffy, who's slightly weaker than old Rayleigh. So g4 mid diffs


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## TheWiggian (Mar 19, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


>



You always seem to believe the handicaped person.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 19, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> You always seem to believe the handicaped person.



My love for Luffy makes me blind


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## trance (Mar 19, 2016)

Rayleigh after a good fight.


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## gold ace (Mar 19, 2016)

TheWiggian said:


> You always seem to believe the handicaped person.



Handicapped? Bro Luffy was outclassing Doffy in G4. Doffy could only dodge one of G4's attacks, and it ended up being irrelevant. Doffy did no damage to luffy while he was in G4, while Luffy was punching Doffy like a punching bag. If luffy had an extra 5 seconds, luffy would've defeated Doffy Iphigenia G4 in only 5 minutes ish. 

You don't call that low diff?


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## Dunno (Mar 19, 2016)

Rayleigh takes it with one move if both are bloodlusted and they go for a clash. Luffy gives him high diff otherwise.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 19, 2016)

Dunno said:


> Rayleigh takes it with one move if both are bloodlusted and they go for a clash. Luffy gives him high diff otherwise.



Luffy is not like Jozu that loses in one move


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## Bernkastel (Mar 19, 2016)

Rayleigh high diffs


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 19, 2016)

gold ace said:


> G4 Luffy low diffed Doffy, who's slightly weaker than old Rayleigh. So g4 mid diffs



> Implying Luffy low-diffed Doflamingo, even with  G4. 
> Implying Rayleigh wouldn't defeat Doflamingo easily. 
> Implying Doflamingo is anywhere close to Rayleigh's level.


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## gold ace (Mar 19, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> > Implying Luffy low-diffed Doflamingo, even with  G4.
> > Implying Rayleigh wouldn't defeat Doflamingo easily.
> > Implying Doflamingo is anywhere close to Rayleigh's level.



That's exactly what I'm implying. Do you disagree?


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## Deleted member 211714 (Mar 19, 2016)

gold ace said:


> That's exactly what I'm implying. Do you disagree?



Why would I agree? It's against manga canon.


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## Dunno (Mar 19, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Luffy is not like Jozu that loses in one move



Jozu didn't lose. He just pretended to lose in order for them to be able to save Ace. It actually worked, but then Ace threw his life away. In reality, Jozu actually came out ahead against Aokiji.


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## gold ace (Mar 19, 2016)

King Itachi said:


> Why would I agree? It's against manga canon.



How so?


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## Raiden34 (Mar 20, 2016)

Are you going to stop with this retarded ''no limit for G4'' imaginary threads ?

It's saying like, Marco has no healing limit, or Law has no Room limit.... It's stupid.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 20, 2016)

Erkan12 said:


> Are you going to stop with this retarded ''no limit for G4'' imaginary threads ?
> 
> It's saying like, Marco has no healing limit, or Law has no Room limit.... It's stupid.



But it's not. People just wanna see how luffy while in G4 stacks up against the heavyweights.


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## GucciBandana (Mar 20, 2016)

I actually think unlimited G4 Luffy beats old Rayleigh, prob extreme diff? Rayleigh starts panting after fighting at Admiral vs Admiral level, which means G4 Luffy could tire him out and finish him.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 20, 2016)

GucciBandana said:


> I actually think unlimited G4 Luffy beats old Rayleigh, prob extreme diff? Rayleigh starts panting after fighting at Admiral vs Admiral level, which means G4 Luffy could tire him out and finish him.




You've been repped


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## Raiden34 (Mar 20, 2016)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> But it's not. People just wanna see how luffy while in G4 stacks up against the heavyweights.



Then just ask about the difference between Luffy's G4 mode and the others, don't make imaginary additions such as this, it's stupid.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 20, 2016)

Technically giving Luffy infinite G4 doesn't change much.

His power remains the same as in G4, only thing that change is that his haki doesn't drop to 0 suddenly


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## Shanks (Mar 20, 2016)

I'm still going by the notion that when Luffy is able to remove the limitation of G4, maybe with awakening, that level will be G5 and it will be Yonkou level.


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## Yuki (Mar 20, 2016)

Josh said:


> I'm still going by the notion that when Luffy is able to remove the limitation of G4, maybe with awakening, that level will be G5 and it will be Yonkou level.



And then Zoro will magically upgrade to yonko level as well.


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## Dunno (Mar 20, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> And then Zoro will magically upgrade to yonko level as well.



Implying he isn't already.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 20, 2016)

Zoro is below Law for current showings


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## Dunno (Mar 20, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Kaido is below Zoro for current showings



I agree.


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## giantbiceps (Mar 20, 2016)

Ray mid-diffs.


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## Lord Stark (Mar 20, 2016)

Can go either way honestly.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 20, 2016)

Could go Either way, ray is a bit stronger but his stamina issue could be the reason he loses!


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## Nekochako (Mar 20, 2016)

Old Rayleigh wins this with somewhere between high/extreme-diff.


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## NUMBA1TROLL (Mar 20, 2016)

Honestly it's unclear how strong G4 is at this point relative to FM/Admiral characters.

I think he can go toe-to-toe with Old Rayleigh.

I'd give Rayleigh a very high/extreme diff win tho.


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## Duhul10 (Mar 21, 2016)

Rayleigh high - very high diffs if he takes him lightly.
If he is serious he mid-high diffs.
Luffy is not ready for admiral level opponents yet.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 21, 2016)

NUMBA1TROLL said:


> Honestly it's unclear how strong G4 is at this point relative to FM/Admiral characters.
> 
> I think he can go toe-to-toe with Old Rayleigh.
> 
> I'd give Rayleigh a very high/extreme diff win tho.



This post deserved to be repped.


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## Thdyingbreed (Mar 21, 2016)

Some serious Luffy underestimation going on this thread there's not a chance in hell Rayleigh is beating Luffy with infinite G4 he has far too much power and old Rayleigh has stamina issues I don't see him being able to counter/resist G4.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 21, 2016)

IMO they have the same possibilities here

I have G4 slightly weaker than Kizaru


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## Gohara (Mar 21, 2016)

If it's Current Luffy, Old Rayleigh wins with extremely high difficulty.  If it's Infinite Gear 4th Luffy, he wins with mid to high difficulty.  While in Gear 4th Luffy is no doubt physically stronger, has better defense, and is faster than Old Rayleigh.  The only categories Old Rayleigh bests Luffy in are combat ability and Haki, but Luffy also has powerful Devil Fruit abilities which Old Rayleigh lacks.  It seems reasonable that Old Rayleigh can hold off Gear 4th Luffy long enough to defeat him once he reverts back to Gear 3rd, but if it's Infinite Gear 4th Luffy then I don't see him doing any more than putting up a good to great fight against Luffy.  Of course, this is all just IMO.


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## gold ace (Mar 21, 2016)

Gohara said:


> If it's Current Luffy, Old Rayleigh wins with extremely high difficulty.  If it's Infinite Gear 4th Luffy, he wins with mid to high difficulty.  While in Gear 4th Luffy is no doubt physically stronger, has better defense, and is faster than Old Rayleigh.  The only categories Old Rayleigh bests Luffy in are combat ability and Haki, but Luffy also has powerful Devil Fruit abilities which Old Rayleigh lacks.  It seems reasonable that Old Rayleigh can hold off Gear 4th Luffy long enough to defeat him once he reverts back to Gear 3rd, but if it's Infinite Gear 4th Luffy then I don't see him doing any more than putting up a good to great fight against Luffy.  Of course, this is all just IMO.



Praise the lord. Someone around here has a brain.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

G4 Luffy isn't mid diffing Ray, not even high possibly


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## Duhul10 (Mar 22, 2016)

Dunno if he is faster than rayleigh. Even if he is, it's not by much, surely not.
The DD luffy was blitzing was a tired DD, who is not too close to kizaru or Rayleigh speed
Rayleigh intercepted light speed attacks with no diff.  That was when he was completely out of shape. A post kizaru fight Rayleigh should be even better imo.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

G4 didn't even blitz Doffy, he was able to react at most of the attacks even if barely, but the sheer strenght of G4 was too much


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## gold ace (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> G4 Luffy isn't mid diffing Ray, not even high possibly



G4 low diffed Doffy. Why can't he mid diff Rayleigh


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

The anime has shown Luffy mid (high) diffing him and Doffy was more fucked up than Luffy of course 

I trust the anime


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## gold ace (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> The anime has shown Luffy mid (high) diffing him and Doffy was more fucked up than Luffy of course
> 
> I trust the anime



Manga > Anime


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

The manga only shows the attacks and few images it doesn't even make you understand the real difficulty of a fight 

It made Doffy seem like an incompetent fool while he showed some resistance instead


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> The anime has shown Luffy mid (high) diffing him and Doffy was more fucked up than Luffy of course
> 
> I trust the anime



That's not how this works.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

You don't even know the real difficulty that occurred in the fight then since there is too few showing. . Basically only the attacks were shown. . If it's enough for you to decide it GG


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## gold ace (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> The manga only shows the attacks and few images it doesn't even make you understand the real difficulty of a fight
> 
> It made Doffy seem like an incompetent fool while he showed some resistance instead



That's cuz Doffy was an incompetent fool in front of G4... Shown by Oda himself... The one who draws and writes the manga..,. The thing that is actually canon..


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> You don't even know the real difficulty that occurred in the fight then since there is too few showing. . Basically only the attacks were shown. . If it's enough for you to decide it GG



Whether or not the manga showed enough for you to get a handle on the fight doesn't matter. The anime has no baring on what happens in the manga. The anime is a different entity.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 22, 2016)

gold ace said:


> G4 low diffed Doffy. Why can't he mid diff Rayleigh


Cause Rayleigh is fresh here while DD was fucked up badly, and it ain't exactly low diff, especially when he pulled out awakening, luffy wasnt treating him like a ragdoll anymore! No more blitzing, DD could block his attacks, and could keep luffy away from him which is why he was hit only once after that! I say the manga ver. Was low/mid diff! But a fresh DD w/ awakening Vs G4 luffy, will be a solid mid diff at least, its not gonna reach high diff, but its probably mid-high diff


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

I love Luffy but I love DD too


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## gold ace (Mar 22, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Cause Rayleigh is fresh here while DD was fucked up badly, and it ain't exactly low diff, especially when he pulled out awakening, luffy wasnt treating him like a ragdoll anymore! No more blitzing, DD could block his attacks, and could keep luffy away from him which is why he was hit only once after that! I say the manga ver. Was low/mid diff! But a fresh DD w/ awakening Vs G4 luffy, will be a solid mid diff at least, its not gonna reach high diff, but its probably mid-high diff



And luffy wasn't fucked badly? Luffy was just as worn out an fatigued as Doffy was.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 22, 2016)

Luffy didn't have his organs destroyed..


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## gold ace (Mar 22, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Luffy didn't have his organs destroyed..



Neither did Doffy. At least not during their fight in G4 hedidnt


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## Coruscation (Mar 22, 2016)

I see some (thankfully not too much) alarming Ray underestimating. This is the person Garp spoke of in the same breath as Whitebeard, people. The person he said they couldn't possibly take on at the same time as Whitebeard. Words that Kizaru also echoed when he said that the Marines couldn't dedicate themselves to take Rayleigh in with the fight with WB coming up.

This is a guy that some of you are going to say has no chance against a, yes, very very powerful, but as of yet unproven against someone of THAT high a caliber, G4 Luffy?

I don't buy it. I agree with the notion this is most definitely a hard fight whoever the winner is. It's fucking RAYLEIGH we're talking about here, he should've fought people tougher than G4 Luffy. But of course his physical standards aren't what they used to be and his power output has likely gone down a bit too.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 22, 2016)

gold ace said:


> And luffy wasn't fucked badly? Luffy was just as worn out an fatigued as Doffy was.


Not even close, the damage Bellamy did to him was nothing to the damage law did to Doffy!


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 23, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Not even close, the damage Bellamy did to him was nothing to the damage law did to Doffy!



Doffy had a way to limit the damage via strings. Luffy couldn't heal himself.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 23, 2016)

Doffy wasn't fully healed


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## monkey d ace (Mar 23, 2016)

truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Doffy had a way to limit the damage via strings. Luffy couldn't heal himself.


ofc cause if he didn't limit the DMG, he would've died right there! So even then he was considerably weakened, but luffy took a few punches from a half dead fodder it wasn't even worth needing to heal ones self.
Nvm GK, either injection shot or counter shock is >>>> few punches from half dead Bellamy.


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## gold ace (Mar 23, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Not even close, the damage Bellamy did to him was nothing to the damage law did to Doffy!



It's not just the damage from Bellamy.

It's all the stamina and Haki he lost throughout the Colloseum, getting to Doffy, fighting Bellamy, and fighting Doffy pre g4.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 23, 2016)

Doffy was in a lot worse state


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## Typhon (Mar 23, 2016)

Rayleigh wins. Keep in mind that Rayleigh actually knows and understands G4 probably better then Luffy does given *KKG was his idea* lol. So on that merit alone he wins.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 23, 2016)

gold ace said:


> It's not just the damage from Bellamy.
> 
> It's all the stamina and Haki he lost throughout the Colloseum, getting to Doffy, fighting Bellamy, and fighting Doffy pre g4.


Doffy fought with law twice, sanji and luffy preG4, along with few scuffles here and there, and parasiting a large number of civilians/marines, and using BC for a long ass time! Stamina/haki wise, he should've also lost way more than luffy.


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## gold ace (Mar 23, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Doffy fought with law twice, sanji and luffy preG4, along with few scuffles here and there, and parasiting a large number of civilians/marines, and using BC for a long ass time! Stamina/haki wise, he should've also lost way more than luffy.



He wasted 0 halo facing law the 1st time and facing Sanji, and wasted minimal stamina. When looking at the panels, they lost a comparable amount.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 23, 2016)

gold ace said:


> He wasted 0 halo facing law the 1st time and facing Sanji, and wasted minimal stamina. When looking at the panels, they lost a comparable amount.


Luffy fought fodders in collosuem, chingao was the only name worthy opponent, and he was beaten so easily. He also barely did shit on the way to the palace, Bellamy is a fodder who got one-shotted. DD parasiting the civilians/marines and using BC for the time he did alone should consume a lot more stamina than luffy did.
Law vs Doffy in the first round started in the bridge in GB, and ended in front of the collosuem! The fight was just mostly off-paneled so it also required a good deal of stamina and whatnot.


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## gold ace (Mar 23, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Luffy fought fodders in collosuem, chingao was the only name worthy opponent, and he was beaten so easily. He also barely did shit on the way to the palace, Bellamy is a fodder who got one-shotted. DD parasiting the civilians/marines and using BC for the time he did alone should consume a lot more stamina than luffy did.
> Law vs Doffy in the first round started in the bridge in GB, and ended in front of the collosuem! The fight was just mostly off-paneled so it also required a good deal of stamina and whatnot.



It doesn't matter if they were fodder or not, the same amount of Hali and stamina was still wasted. Luffy wasted a bunch of stamin and Haki on chinjau, pica, and dealing with things o side of the palace alone. That stuff alone equals the amount of stamina and Haki Doffy wasted pre G4 fight.

Then teres the whole Bellamy fiight, which a bunch more Haki and stamina was wasted, and makes up for the gamma knife and any damage dealt to Doffy.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 23, 2016)

gold ace said:


> It doesn't matter if they were fodder or not, the same amount of Hali and stamina was still wasted. Luffy wasted a bunch of stamin and Haki on chinjau, pica, and dealing with things o side of the palace alone. That stuff alone equals the amount of stamina and Haki Doffy wasted pre G4 fight.
> 
> Then teres the whole Bellamy fiight, which a bunch more Haki and stamina was wasted, and makes up for the gamma knife and any damage dealt to Doffy.


it does matter, significantly! 
Lol fighting fodders <<<< fighting law twice, parasiting huge numbers of civillains and using an island-level move for such a long time! 
And the lame shit with Bellamy makes up for gamma knife?! I can't believe what I'm reading... There is a limit to being ridiculous.
Anyways I've lost interest, This is obvious BS for any sane person!


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## gold ace (Mar 24, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> it does matter, significantly!
> Lol fighting fodders <<<< fighting law twice, parasiting huge numbers of civillains and using an island-level move for such a long time!
> And the lame shit with Bellamy makes up for gamma knife?! I can't believe what I'm reading... There is a limit to being ridiculous.
> Anyways I've lost interest, This is obvious BS for any sane person!



Wasting stamina and Haki on fodder is no different from wasting stamina and Haki on someone like Law. Your still wasting stamina and haki,.

Yes, the stuff from.Bellamy makes up for Gamma Knife, considering Doffy was repairing aost all of its damage


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

gold ace said:


> Wasting stamina and Haki on fodder is no different from wasting stamina and Haki on someone like Law. Your still wasting stamina and haki,.
> 
> Yes, the stuff from.Bellamy makes up for Gamma Knife, considering Doffy was repairing aost all of its damage



Not quite, the effort needed is inferior


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 24, 2016)

Doffy didn't "heal" himself

He essentially put out the fire per say, to avoid further damage. That doesn't mean he reverted the damage that was already done.


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Doffy didn't "heal" himself
> 
> He essentially put out the fire per say, to avoid further damage. That doesn't mean he reverted the damage that was already done.



No... no it's REALLY not like that at all...

He stitched the wounds. He didn't just stop the bleeding, he STITCHED THE WOUNDS...

What you just said is like having Sanji lose a leg and just stop the bleeding.

What DD REALLY did is stitch the leg back together and but a bandage on it.

Big difference right?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 24, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> No... no it's REALLY not like that at all...
> 
> He stitched the wounds. He didn't just stop the bleeding, he STITCHED THE WOUNDS...
> 
> ...



You've clearly never had stitches before

Getting a cut stitched doesn't = healing


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> You've clearly never had stitches before
> 
> Getting a cut stitched doesn't = healing



Actually yes i fking have.

Guess what i have stitched? A FUCKING VITAL ORGAN! 

Guess what the stitches did? 

Ohh yeaaaa...

Plus this is DD, he can literally stitch them again every time they stitches break.  

DD was on the floor dying, once he stitched his organs was he still on the floor or was he up again fighting? 

Ohh yeaaaa. 

Also, implying real life to manga. 

Sanji got his leg broke by Vergo, was he not running on it a second later?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 24, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Actually yes i fking have.
> 
> Guess what i have stitched? A FUCKING VITAL ORGAN!
> 
> ...



they didn't heal you

sleep + eating + time healed you

google: heal


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## gold ace (Mar 24, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Not quite, the effort needed is inferior



Disagreed.


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> they didn't heal you
> 
> sleep + eating + time healed you
> 
> google: heal



I didn't say heal, i just meant they did a heck of a lot more than you are insinuating.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Doffy didn't "*heal*" himself
> 
> He essentially put out the fire per say, to avoid further damage. That doesn't mean he reverted the damage that was already done.





Juvia. said:


> *No... *no it's REALLY not like that at all...


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


>



Where did you see heal in that message at all?

I just said they did far more than you are insinuating.

There is a difference between heal, fixed up and stopped the damage from getting any worse.

DD did the middle.

When i went in for the operation, they stopped the damage from getting any worse, then they fixed me up, then i healed. 

DD is the middle. 

Get it?


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Doffy didn't "*heal*" himself
> 
> He essentially put out the fire per say, to avoid further damage. That doesn't mean he reverted the damage that was already done.





Juvia. said:


> *No... *no it's REALLY not like that at all...


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


>



WHY ARE YOU QUOTING YOUR MESSAGE WHEN YOU SAY HEAL!

I was quoting.



> He essentially put out the fire per say, to avoid further damage. That doesn't mean he reverted the damage that was already done.



That...


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## Dunno (Mar 24, 2016)

@Juvia: Presume that two MMA fighters are going to fight. One of them has several of his organs ripped to shreds and stitched together right before the fight and the other fighter has to beat a 10 year old right before the fight. Which one do you think would have the advantage in the fight? Which one would bet on?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

I love you Dunno


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## Dunno (Mar 24, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> I love you Dunno



Thanks, I find you quite entertaining as well.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 24, 2016)

I was teached by freechoice himself


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

Dunno said:


> @Juvia: Presume that two MMA fighters are going to fight. One of them has several of his organs ripped to shreds and stitched together right before the fight and the other fighter has to beat a 10 year old right before the fight. Which one do you think would have the advantage in the fight? Which one would bet on?



Oh plz... that's not even close...


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## barreltheif (Mar 24, 2016)

Dunno said:


> @Juvia: Presume that two MMA fighters are going to fight. One of them has several of his organs ripped to shreds and stitched together right before the fight and the other fighter has to beat a 10 year old right before the fight. Which one do you think would have the advantage in the fight? Which one would bet on?




The one difference is that the 10 year old is allowed a free hit to the stomach. Aside from that, the analogy is perfect.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 24, 2016)

Dunno said:


> @Juvia: Presume that two MMA fighters are going to fight. One of them has several of his organs ripped to shreds and stitched together right before the fight and the other fighter has to beat a 10 year old right before the fight. Which one do you think would have the advantage in the fight? Which one would bet on?



Don't you think this comparison is pretty disingenuous in basically all parts?


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 24, 2016)

barreltheif said:


> The one difference is that the 10 year old is allowed a free hit to the stomach. Aside from that, the analogy is perfect.



No it isn't.


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## Quuon (Mar 24, 2016)

Ah, this gamma knife shit again. Oda made it pretty clear where Luffy and Doffy's HP were at.

Doffy: 


Luffy: 

Why this is even a discussion is beyond me.

OT: Rayleigh high-extreme diffs.


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## Yuki (Mar 24, 2016)

Quuon said:


> Ah, this gamma knife shit again. Oda made it pretty clear where Luffy and Doffy's HP were at.
> 
> Doffy:
> 
> ...



What? By Luffy's injury being brought up first?


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## gold ace (Mar 24, 2016)

Quuon said:


> Ah, this gamma knife shit again. Oda made it pretty clear where Luffy and Doffy's HP were at.
> 
> Doffy:
> 
> ...



No. They were quite clearly even


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## Shanks (Mar 24, 2016)

Regardless of what people think, Oda clearly portray the damage as even. Too many internet gangsters try hard out there think they know it all.


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## Ruse (Mar 25, 2016)

internet gangstas? lmao
just say the damage was even then keep it movin fuck this subliminal bullshit

if this/part of this gets deleted
fuck the mods for subscribing to this telly tubby bullshit


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## Finalbeta (Mar 25, 2016)

Quuon awesome comparison


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## trance (Mar 25, 2016)

People _still_ believe Luffy and Doffy were in comparable states of condition?


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## Finalbeta (Mar 25, 2016)




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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 25, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> People _still_ believe Luffy and Doffy were in comparable states of condition?


Doflamingo got hit by a free Red Hawk to the gut, an Injection Shot through the side, and a surprise Gamma Knife + Countershock combo which turned his organs into jelly, but was able to survive due to his stitching (though he said it was by no means an equivalent to healing). Luffy got hit a few times by....fucking Bellamy. Of course they were both in comparable condition!


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## Beast (Mar 25, 2016)

Joseph said:


> internet gangstas? lmao
> just say the damage was even then keep it movin fuck this subliminal bullshit
> 
> if this/part of this gets deleted
> fuck the mods for subscribing to this telly tubby bullshit



Calm your tits Drake. 




DD was clearly more hurt...


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## Yuki (Mar 25, 2016)

Jigen said:


> Doflamingo got hit by a free Red Hawk to the gut, an Injection Shot through the side, and a surprise Gamma Knife + Countershock combo which turned his organs into jelly, but was able to survive due to his stitching (though he said it was by no means an equivalent to healing). Luffy got hit a few times by....fucking Bellamy. Of course they were both in comparable condition!



Luffy getting rammed by Bellamy god knows how many times while lacking the will to properly defend him self because if he did it meant his death.

After fighting in the Arena and all that other shit he had done before finally getting into the 1v1 with DD.

If Pre Skip Luffy can make Garp of all fking people bleed out of his mouth after a *SINGLE* hit because Garp lacked the will to properly defend him self... I wonder how much damage Luffy took as a hakied Bellamy pounded the shit out of him while Luffy was unwilling to properly defend him self.  

Seems like a pretty fking substantial amount to me...


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## Finalbeta (Mar 25, 2016)

Bellamy with haki  <<<< Pre-skip Luffy


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 25, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Luffy getting rammed by Bellamy god knows how many times while lacking the will to properly defend him self because if he did it meant his death.





Juvia. said:


> After fighting in the Arena and all that other shit he had done before finally getting into the 1v1 with DD.


Doflamingo had been fighting all day too. He had to cut Issho's meteor, hunted Law with Issho, chased after Law when he escaped, fought Sanji and tanked several DJ kicks, fought Law on the bridge, fought Luffy + Kyros, put Bird Cage up to control the whole country and kept it up until he was beaten, created multiple string clones, fought Luffy and Law together, got his organs destroyed, fought and outlasted G4 Luffy, fought the Colosseum fighters and toyed around with Rebecca and Violet, and THEN he lost to G4 Luffy.


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## Yuki (Mar 25, 2016)

Jigen said:


> Doflamingo had been fighting all day too. He had to cut Issho's meteor, hunted Law with Issho, chased after Law when he escaped, fought Sanji and tanked several DJ kicks, fought Law on the bridge, fought Luffy + Kyros, put Bird Cage up to control the whole country and kept it up until he was beaten, created multiple string clones, fought Luffy and Law together, got his organs destroyed, fought and outlasted G4 Luffy, fought the Colosseum fighters and toyed around with Rebecca and Violet, and THEN he lost to G4 Luffy.



Missed my second point ehh?


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## Dunno (Mar 25, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Oh plz... that's not even close...



It is very close. It's almost the exact same situation, given that a MMA fighter could one-shot a ten year old child in the same way Luffy could one-shot a Bellamy. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison isn't even close to reality? 



truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Don't you think this comparison is pretty disingenuous in basically all parts?



I think this comparison comes extremely close to what happened in the manga. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison is disingenuous?


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## Ruse (Mar 25, 2016)

MasterBeast said:


> Calm your tits Drake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lmao I was a little drunk when I posted that 

Logically DD should've been more hurt but both injuries were highlighted so it's clear Oda wanted Luffy/DD to viewed as a sincere fight.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 25, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> If Pre Skip Luffy can make Garp of all fking people bleed out of his mouth after a *SINGLE* hit because Garp lacked the will to properly defend him self... I wonder how much damage Luffy took as a hakied Bellamy pounded the shit out of him while Luffy was unwilling to properly defend him self.
> 
> Seems like a pretty fking substantial amount to me...


Luffy used haki to protect himself tho, and he wasn't seen to be that much damaged by Bellamy's hit, iirc he grit his teeth with drops of blood. Unlike garp who was buried in the ground by luffy's punch.


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## Yuki (Mar 25, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> Luffy used haki to protect himself tho, and he wasn't seen to be that much damaged by Bellamy's hit, iirc he grit his teeth with drops of blood. Unlike garp who was buried in the ground by luffy's punch.



He was hurt just as much as DD was from a Red hawk. 

And we don't know just how many attacks got to Luffy.

Would you and others still be saying the same if we found out Bellamy hit him 100+ times each as powerful as the first? 

I don't think so. 

Luffy did guard him self a little, but not even close to enough because of he did, Bellamy would have died. Like a fly hitting a speeding car head on. 



Dunno said:


> It is very close. It's almost the exact same situation, given that a MMA fighter could one-shot a ten year old child in the same way Luffy could one-shot a Bellamy. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison isn't even close to reality?
> 
> 
> 
> I think this comparison comes extremely close to what happened in the manga. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison is disingenuous?



Because a 10 year old can make a fighter bleed from the mouth after a single punch to the gut.  

Because we know for a fine fact Bellamy only hit Luffy once. 

*NOT EVEN CLOSE!*


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## Finalbeta (Mar 25, 2016)

Pre TS Luffy >> Dellinger > Post TS Bellamy


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## monkey d ace (Mar 25, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> He was hurt just as much as DD was from a Red hawk.
> 
> And we don't know just how many attacks got to Luffy.
> 
> ...


not really, Doffy got knocked back, was sweating/panting like crazy right after the hit, needed a moment to stand back up, left a big clear wound on his gut. Luffy just grit his teeth with and bled a few drops. It wouldn't make any sense for a red hawk connecting with an off guard doffy to do as much as dmg as a Bellamy punch on a haki protected luffy, since the gap between luffy/Bellamy is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gap between luffy/Doffy.

Doubt it and it isn't my point. Comparing luffy's garp punch to Bellamy's is inaccurate, and so is comparing it red hawk

Also let's keep it to what we've seen on panel here, cause we didn't see every second Doffy/luffy fought in DR. And from what was shown Doffy took more DMG overall!


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## Yuki (Mar 25, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> not really, Doffy got knocked back, was sweating/panting like crazy right after the hit, needed a moment to stand back up, left a big clear wound on his gut. Luffy just grit his teeth with and bled a few drops. It wouldn't make any sense for a red hawk connecting with an off guard doffy to do as much as dmg as a Bellamy punch on a haki protected luffy, since the gap between luffy/Bellamy is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gap between luffy/Doffy.
> 
> Doubt it and it isn't my point. Comparing luffy's garp punch to Bellamy's is inaccurate, and so is comparing it red hawk
> 
> Also let's keep it to what we've seen on panel here, cause we didn't see every second Doffy/luffy fought in DR. And from what was shown Doffy took more DMG overall!



So we can estimate Jozu by saying he stalemated an admiral for some off screen time but not Bellamy and Luffy?

Bellamy never once stopped jumping around and every time we go a look at Luffy he looked worse and worse. 

Bellamy got in countless hits.


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 25, 2016)




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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 25, 2016)

Dunno said:


> It is very close. It's almost the exact same situation, given that a MMA fighter could one-shot a ten year old child in the same way Luffy could one-shot a Bellamy. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison isn't even close to reality?
> 
> 
> 
> I think this comparison comes extremely close to what happened in the manga. Maybe you could explain to me in what way this comparison is disingenuous?



How any one piece character let alone a borderline top tier like DD endures an in jury is worlds apart of how a normal human are worlds apart. You know this.
The stitching ability of  a real world doctor is worlds apart from the stitching ability of a guy who can control people and make lifelike clones with his strings. You know this. 
Also the luffy and Bellamy "fight" wasn't a simple fight. You know this.


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## Dunno (Mar 25, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> Because a 10 year old can make a fighter bleed from the mouth after a single punch to the gut.
> 
> Because we know for a fine fact Bellamy only hit Luffy once.
> 
> *NOT EVEN CLOSE!*



That's called "not the exact same thing". It's not called "not even close". A bloodlusted  ten year old could do a little amount of damage to a fighter if the fighter didn't fight back or defend himself, just like Bellamy did a little damage to Luffy. 



truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> How any one piece character let alone a borderline top tier like DD endures an in jury is worlds apart of how a normal human are worlds apart. You know this.



Then how come Doflamingo can endure having his innards ruptured very well, but Luffy can't handle taking a number of hit(s) from a guy far weaker than him without suffering immensely. Is Luffy not a One Piece character? Does he not have typical One Piece endurance? 



truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> The stitching ability of  a real world doctor is worlds apart from the stitching ability of a guy who can control people and make lifelike clones with his strings. You know this.



What does having the ability to control people or make clones have to do with stitching oneself together? Was it ever indicated that Doflamingo's ability to stich was that great? Law has been highlighted as kind of a miracle doctor, but Doflamingo certainly has not. 



truedetectiveseason2intro said:


> Also the luffy and Bellamy "fight" wasn't a simple fight. You know this.



Of course it wasn't. A "fight" between an MMA fighter and a 10 year old wouldn't be simple fight either.


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## Yuki (Mar 26, 2016)

Dunno said:


> That's called "not the exact same thing". It's not called "not even close". A bloodlusted  ten year old could do a little amount of damage to a fighter if the fighter didn't fight back or defend himself, just like Bellamy did a little damage to Luffy.



No, a true example would be.

A black belt Karate kid gets a free beat up session on a grown fighter. 

THAT'S what happened.


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## Quuon (Mar 26, 2016)

Dunno said:


> Then how come Doflamingo can endure having his innards ruptured very well, but Luffy can't handle taking a number of hit(s) from a guy far weaker than him without suffering immensely. Is Luffy not a One Piece character? Does he not have typical One Piece endurance?



To be fair, while Doflamingo and Luffy have comparable endurance, Doffy's general durability and damage soak should be on another level. The amount of damage they both took evening out_ relative to their levels_ is not out of the question.

If I were to use RPG terms:

Luffy has 1000 HP, and lost 500 of it by chapter 783.

Doflamingo has 5000 HP, and has lost 2500 of it by 783. 

Is it really so strange that Doflamingo could still perform pretty well Regardless of the "monster attack" he took?


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## trance (Mar 26, 2016)

Jobbing at its finest. 

But seriously, you can't really compare Luffy expending some stamina by fighting a few people well below his level to Doffy getting his internals torn to shreds. You know, his heart, kidneys, stomach, lungs, etc? 

Simply put, he was in worse shape.


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## truedetectiveseason2intro (Mar 26, 2016)

Dunno said:


> That's called "not the exact same thing". It's not called "not even close". A bloodlusted  ten year old could do a little amount of damage to a fighter if the fighter didn't fight back or defend himself, just like Bellamy did a little damage to Luffy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for taking so long to reply. Yes Luffy benefits from having OP endurance my point is that Doflamingo will be in bad shape yes, but he will still be able to fight. If a normal human had their internal organs torn to shit they wouldn't be able to fight. So even if they underwent the same level of remedy Doflamingo is obvi going to be in waaaayy better shape. The reason I pointed out Doffy's abilities is he clearly has incredible control over his string so logically he should do a FAR better stitching job than any doctor could. Luffy basically let Bellamy wail on him quite a bit that's not comparable to a ref saying go then an MMA fighter putting a 10 year old down in one move because that's how that would go down. I'm not saying that Luffy wasn't in better shape I just think that your metaphor drastically exaggerated how much more Doffy was injured. The way G4 was rag dolling Doffy wasn't due, for the most part, to his injuries but because G4 turns Luffy into a monster.


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## monkey d ace (Mar 26, 2016)

Juvia. said:


> So we can estimate Jozu by saying he stalemated an admiral for some off screen time but not Bellamy and Luffy?
> 
> Bellamy never once stopped jumping around and every time we go a look at Luffy he looked worse and worse.
> 
> Bellamy got in countless hits.


do u estimate Bellamy by saying he stalemated luffy? If not, then u already have the answer.
Pretty sure they weren't much, u can count them if u like.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

Luffy would turn Jozu into gifts for Hancock


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## Yuki (Mar 26, 2016)

monkey d ace said:


> do u estimate Bellamy by saying he stalemated luffy? If not, then u already have the answer.
> Pretty sure they weren't much, u can count them if u like.



............

You know fine well that's not what i meant...

We got to see like 5% of what was happening...

As i said Luffy looked worse and worse every time he was on screen even while we saw no hits. >_>

Assuming Luffy didn't get hit even once off screen is literally absurd...


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

Bellamy punches are weaker than mine honestly


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## Beast (Mar 26, 2016)

Hody did more damage to luffy than Bellamy could ever hope to do.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Mar 26, 2016)

Luffy = 50% (more exhaustion than damage)

DD = deathbed 2% health left


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Luffy = 50% (more exhaustion than damage)
> 
> DD = deathbed 2% health left



More or less


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## gold ace (Mar 26, 2016)

HisMajestyMihawk said:


> Luffy = 50% (more exhaustion than damage)
> 
> DD = deathbed 2% health left



That's canonically incorrect.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

Canon shows Doffy feel definitely the pain the most as well as Gamma Knife is far more impressive than Colosseum fighters


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## IchijiNijiSanji (Mar 26, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> Jobbing at its finest.
> 
> But seriously, you can't really compare Luffy expending some stamina by fighting a few people well below his level to Doffy getting his internals torn to shreds. You know, his heart, kidneys, stomach, lungs, etc?
> 
> Simply put, he was in worse shape.



Yes, heart, kidneys, lungs, liver etc still get damaged from punches. 

Or do you think when you punch from outside the organs vanish? 

What do you think causes bleeding from the mouth when you're punched in the torso?


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## gold ace (Mar 26, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Canon shows Doffy feel definitely the pain the most as well as Gamma Knife is far more impressive than Colosseum fighters



Gamma knife indeed is far more impressive than colosseum fighters.

Not if most of that damage is negated though.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

Doffy felt the pain of a little girl delivering a baby


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## gold ace (Mar 26, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> Doffy felt the pain of a little girl delivering a baby



I rest my case.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

We don't know how much he managed to heal himself in any case


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## gold ace (Mar 26, 2016)

Finalbeta said:


> We don't know how much he managed to heal himself in any case



If he didn't repair himself fully, he literally wouldn't be capable of doing anything, no matter how tough you are. Even if your kaido. If your major organs aren't there, your not gonna do anything lol.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 26, 2016)

He could stand just a bit after the gamma knife tho


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## trance (Mar 26, 2016)

IchijiNijiSanji said:


> Yes, heart, kidneys, lungs, liver etc still get damaged from punches.
> 
> Or do you think when you punch from outside the organs vanish?
> 
> What do you think causes bleeding from the mouth when you're punched in the torso?



No, really? Had no clue. 

But seriously, you can't compare them at all. Doffy was worse off.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Mar 26, 2016)

If I had to pick between getting hit a few times by a fodder or getting a surprise Red Hawk to the gut, an Injection Shot to the side, and having my organs held together by emergency stitching after they were fried by a Gamma Knife/Countershock combo, I'd think the former would be a better choice. Could be wrong though.


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## RileyD (Mar 27, 2016)

Kyouko said:


> No, really? Had no clue.
> 
> But seriously, you can't compare them at all. Doffy was worse off.


Yeah just ignore canonical pages of the manga where Doffy is the one to bring up Luffy's slowdown from his damage first.


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## Dunno (Mar 27, 2016)

RileyD said:


> Yeah just ignore canonical pages of the manga where Doffy is the one to bring up Luffy's slowdown from his damage first.



It's canonical that they talk about their respective damage. It's not canonical in any way whatsoever that the damage they sustained is equal.


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## gold ace (Mar 27, 2016)

If I were to choose between fighting with stitched up organs, a little bit of stamina and haki lost, and getting hit with red hawk And injection shot, or fighting with a bunch of stamina and haki lost, and taken tons of hits from someone who isn't exactly weak by any means especially when I'm basically letting him punch me....

I would find it to be a really tough choice.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 27, 2016)

This thread is confusing


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## Finalbeta (Mar 27, 2016)

Sissy > Bellamy


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## Raiden34 (Mar 28, 2016)

It's also interesting that people forgetting G4 Luffy was never fresh in Dressrosa, when Luffy used the G4 for the first time in Dressrosa, he was already used his %50 of his stamina, so it's possible that a Fresh G4 would be more powerful than that.


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## Finalbeta (Mar 28, 2016)

Yeah definitely


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## TheWiggian (Mar 28, 2016)

The only thing most people here definitely know is how many % exactly every fighter had left during Dressrosa.


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## xmysticgohanx (Mar 30, 2016)

G4 Luffy is a legit top tier, he mid diffs


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