# 2-Eyed Kakashi vs. Itachi



## Ryuzaki (Aug 7, 2015)

*Distance:* 20 meters

*Location:* Akatsuki Cave

*Mindset:* IC

*Knowledge:* Manga

*Restrictions:* None

*Scenario:* Assume Kakashi has both of Obito's eyes (but no rikudo chakra) and can activate/deactivate the sharingan/mangekyou. Neither of them are blind ad both are fully healthy.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 7, 2015)

Tsukiyomi GG.


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## LostSelf (Aug 7, 2015)

Manga knowledge? Depends how long Kakashi can use MS, because those he has here are the most haxxed.

If he keeps his war-arc stamina, Kakashi snipping Itachi while bypassing all of his attacks would be the outcome of this match.

Itachi has his shots at counter attacking. However, he might not know about Kakashi's MS, while Kakashi should know.


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## Kai (Aug 7, 2015)

Kakashi using Mangekyo for both eyes without Six Path's chakra is a swift suicide. 

Itachi dominates him.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 7, 2015)

kakashi never possessed rikudo chakra. obitos eyes were empowered from when he did possess six paths chakra. his chakra and body were permanently changed by six paths power.

this kakashi is no different from the manga DMS kakashi, so PS ends this match nigh instantly.


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## sanninme rikudo (Aug 7, 2015)

Kai said:


> Kakashi using Mangekyo for both eyes without Six Path's chakra is a swift suicide.
> 
> Itachi dominates him.


This. 

And for Kakashi's sake, he better start off with a move that can settle the match, as that move would probably prove to be his last, depending which feats he gets for this match up.


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## Sans (Aug 7, 2015)

Itachi's head gets lopped off by Kamui.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 7, 2015)

Kamui GG
/10 c


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## Semiotic Sacrilege (Aug 7, 2015)

Kakashi doesn't need both eyes to beat Itachi. War Arc Kakashi is plenty with his Kamui proficiency. I love whenever these scenarios come up how people go "lawl Kakashi couldn't even handle both eyes, using them is suicide!". Then what's the point of this scenario at all? You might as well say "Kakashi has an ultimate attack that can kill anyone... but he can't use it!". I assume the intention in creating these types of threads is to give characters abilities that they don't normally have and to find out how they would use those abilities. Not, "hey how would this fight that can't actually happen go? Oh, it can't actually happen? I guess I shouldn't have made the thread then huh?".


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 7, 2015)

I don't think Kakashi will have a problem with the stamina at all, he may not be Uchiha but he was able to work out the kinks with a single eye to no problem. It also seems that the intangibility technique less chakra than the one Kakashi attempts to perform.





Shinobi no Kami said:


> kakashi never possessed rikudo chakra. obitos eyes were empowered from when he did possess six paths chakra. his chakra and body were permanently changed by six paths power.
> 
> this kakashi is no different from the manga DMS kakashi, so PS ends this match nigh instantly.



I'm certain it was Kakashi having Rikudo's chakra that made the difference, if only his eyes were stronger, then his reaction timing/physical speed wouldn't have increased as much as it did.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 7, 2015)

He also used a Black Raikiri, that requires six paths power (rikudo chakra) if we consider Sasuke's statement [1]

Kakashi wasn't possessing Obito's body (permanently enhanced as Kami claims), he was essentially empowered by his _spirit_, so he wouldn't have been able to use rikudo raikiri unless you can somehow asspull an explanation as to how the state of his body (which was turned to ash) transferred through his spirit into Kakashi (enhancing his body to somehow have the ability to utilize Rikudo Raikiri- a bodily technique).


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## Bonly (Aug 7, 2015)

Kamui GG? Kamui GG. There's a reason why Kishi kept them separate until the end, shit is to OP yo


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## RBL (Aug 7, 2015)

where is the raikiri guy 

OT : unhealthy itachi looses tbh.


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## Malicious Friday (Aug 7, 2015)

Unless Kakashi can either Kamui Itachi or go full Susano'o before he can trap him in Tsukyomi, then Kakashi wins. Other than that, finger Tsukyomi gives Itachi the win.


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## Amol (Aug 8, 2015)

Kamui GG.
Obito's Eyes > Itachi's Eyes.
It doesn't matter which version of Itachi is this . It is a stomp match.
After fight Kakashi either goes into Coma or dies due to Chakra Exhaustion.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Tsukiyomi GG.



Kamui GG.


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## Amol (Aug 8, 2015)

I was wondering would Tsukyomi even work on Kakashi here ?
I mean he does have two MS here and Sasuke broke Tsukyomi with only Tomoe sharingan.
We have been told that Kakashi uses Sharingan better than most of Uchiha themselves.


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## Skywalker (Aug 8, 2015)

Itachi takes a trip to boxland.


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2015)

Is this a joke or what? Kakashi negs. 1MS Kakashi already defeats Itachi, what's the point in put a far more haxxed and powerful version of Kakashi against Itachi. Kamui GG.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Amol said:


> I was wondering would Tsukyomi even work on Kakashi here ?
> I mean he does have two MS here and Sasuke broke Tsukyomi with only Tomoe sharingan.
> We have been told that Kakashi uses Sharingan better than most of Uchiha themselves.



Kakashi is not an Uchiha. But here, it is irrelevant. Kakashi Kamui-warps him.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2015)

Amol said:


> I was wondering would Tsukyomi even work on Kakashi here ?
> I mean he does have two MS here and Sasuke broke Tsukyomi with only Tomoe sharingan.
> We have been told that Kakashi uses Sharingan better than most of Uchiha themselves.



Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, so it may work. We know for a fact that he avoided eye contact when he came across shouten Itachi and he had MS at that point.



StarWanderer said:


> Kamui GG.



Tsukiyomi lands first. If he avoids eye contact, he can't anticipate Amaterasu. Eitherway he is dead here.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

> Tsukiyomi lands first. If he avoids eye contact, he can't anticipate Amaterasu. Eitherway he is dead here.



Kamui is faster than Amaterasu. Kakashi can Kamui-warp his torso as soon as he sees him, without making an aye-contact.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2015)

Kamui isn't faster than Amaterasu.
Also if the flames touch him then warping his torso won't do anything as flames will warp with it.
Kamui is not a good Amaterasu counter, sadly.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kamui isn't faster than Amaterasu.
> Also if the flames touch him then warping his torso won't do anything as flames will warp with it.
> Kamui is not a good Amaterasu counter, sadly.



Kamui has better speed feats than Amaterasu. Kakashi uses Kamui faster than Itachi can use Amaterasu and detaches his torso from his other body parts, killing him almost instantly.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Kamui has better speed feats than Amaterasu. Kakashi uses Kamui faster than Itachi can use Amaterasu and detaches his torso from his other body parts, killing him almost instantly.



Kakashi never used Kamui on a shinobi offensively, so it is hard to tell whether he could actually execute it faster than Itachi or not. 

But common sense dictates that they can be executed more or less @ the same speed. So the very best case scenario Kakashi can hope for is a double K.O.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Kakashi never used Kamui on a shinobi offensively, so it is hard to tell whether he could actually execute it faster than Itachi or not.
> 
> But common sense dictates that they can be executed more or less @ the same speed. So the very best case scenario Kakashi can hope for is a double K.O.



Kakashi's Kamui execution speed has been shown to be faster. Itachi has to shut down his aye before making Amaterasu.


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2015)

Lol still even comparing Amaterasu to long range Kamui, that's a funny joke. That was for 1MS Kakashi against Itachi, who is already a unbalanced thread since War Arc Kakashi surpassed Itachi's level by far (better feats in everything, speed, chakra, CQC etc etc bar genjutsu that he can counter; Kamui that acts faster in first place and that he uses faster than Itachi uses Amaterasu, Kamui that lets him either flawlessy warp Susanoo or Itachi in it or warp in Susanoo and then warp Itachi, Kamui that doesn't need to meet Itachi's eye to warp him), but hey let's use it again, since it seems that on the Earth there is still someone who believes that Amaterasu is even worth something compared to Kamui.


*Spoiler*: __ 



Kakashi executes long range Kamui a lot faster than Itachi does with Amaterasu, Kakashi could warp the Amaterasu flames or just warp Itachi's head before he manages to use Amaterasu. Kakashi also knows Amaterasu ("those black flames... so that's Amaterasu") while Itachi doesn't know shit about Kamui (he only knows that Kakashi developed a Mangekyo). Kamui also works faster than Amaterasu to begin with in any case, since it isn't preceded by the eye crying blood. Kakashi has the faster jutsu, uses it faster and has faster reactions (could time his Kamui warp fast enough that Obito wasn't able to notice (1), could react to a sudden threat on par with Minato (2)(3), reacts to a sudden attack from a Juubi jinchuriki activating and using Kamui (4) where for example Gaara's automatic sand defense couldn't even activate in time to stop Minato's body hitting poor Gaara *).

We're in 2015 (past half the year, actually) and you are the only person that still believes that Amaterasu can be a threat to MS Kakashi, even Hussain stopped to believe that Jiraiya is on par with Itachi. Oh well, he didn't. But that's Hussain.

With a non perfected Kamui, as he couldn't control the size and the position of the space-time barrier for his own admission, Kakashi could use an Akatsuki like Deidara as his bitch and then was sure he could have defeated another one like Kakuzu. Some time after, Kakashi was even willing to fight Tobi, believed as the legendary Madara Uchiha, with Kamui. 

Amaterasu vs Kamui... part 1 Sakura vs 3 eyed Juudara would be a better match up... Kamui is faster. Better. More haxxed. Nearly uncounterable while the other has been countered in so many ways I forgot, and there are a lot of more other possible counters. Everything Amaterasu can do: Kamui can warp. That should be enough (don't forget that we are talking only about long range Kamui vs Amaterasu; there's phasing Kamui, teleporting Kamui etc so... Kamui as a whole is like thousand times more powerful than Amaterasu):

MS Kakashi's Kamui by Madara (chapter 659)



EMS Sasuke's Amaterasu by Madara (chapter 657)



Some mastered Kamui execution feats:

- Kakashi can canonically warp a human body part (an head sized object) in the same time Obito needs to make it intangible and of a movement of 5 cm from KCM Naruto rushing to attack Obito (5)(6)
- Kakashi warps away two Susanoo arrows when both are already at half their way and his Sharingan was still the 3 tomoe one (7)(8)
- Kakashi warps away Minato's Rasengan countered by Juudara really in no time (9), Minato's arm kicked from Madara was hella fast if we think that Minato's body (obviously heavier and so less fast of the arm) went on Gaara so fast that his auto-defense couldn't activate in time (10); it also was a completely surprise attack that suddenly come out from Gaara's sand wall that blocked Kakashi's LoS (11).
- Kakashi warps away a giant arm of the Gedo Mazo while Madara is already summoning it away with instant space-time summoning jutsu (12) (Minato couldn't do anything in that situation than ask Kakashi taking care of it, Minato of all people couldn't even perceived what happened when Kakashi used Kamui on the Gedo Mazo, and had to ask him if he managed to kill it in time)
- Kakashi feints to warp Naruto's Rasengan and then insta-warps away his body before Obito's Kamui propelled stakes could hit him even with a point blank shot (before Kamui shooted stake that was hitting BM Naruto could move for more than a couple of cm), managing to make Obito think that Kakashi missed and he succesfully hit the clone (13)(14)(15) when actually Kakashi changed his warp from Naruto's Rasengan to his entire body, warping it with such speed and timing that Obito (with full knowledge (16) and top tier reactions boosted by Mangekyo and Rinnegan eyes) couldn't notice or perceive it. That was when Kakashi was moving fast (17)(18) and wasn't that close to the objective (19).
- Kakashi with a Kurama chakra supply (that was said to have increased 3x the power of his jutsu) could warp the Hachibi in the Kamui dimension and then re-warp it in the real world, and then finished all the chakra (20)(21)(22). Taking on account that Kakashi used also some chakra right before to travel between the Kamui world and the real world, I'd say it is pretty much clear that without any chakra supply he can warp a mass that is slightly bigger than 1/3 of the Hachibi (so also Kamui GG his head or any Bijuu's head with relative ease, with the fast execution shown against the Gedo Mazo... or things like a V4 Susanoo from Itachi).

So Kakashi can Kamui away human head sized objects in a more or less instant time and even with fast moving objects/people and unpredictable situations. And he can Kamui away human body sized objects in also nearly istant times, and even giant objects. Thanks to the Kurama's chakra supply from Naruto, Kakashi's Kamui was depicted as a dangerous threat for even the Juubi. Just read what is said from databook about Kakashi's Kamui (and that was when it wasn't perfected yet) ()() and what Kakashi says after having faced the Rinnegan (knowing all its powers as he created counters to them together with Gai) and being against one believed to be Uchiha Madara and wielding the Rinnegan (25). Kakashi's Kamui warped away even Juubi's jinchuriki Madara's Onmyoton Release who nullifies ninjutsu. So... Kamui GG > Amaterasu, by feats, and even by hype and portrayal. Not even going with DMS Rikudou Kakashi that can use Kamui so fast that it outspeeds Kaguya's S/T that blitzed Rinnegan Rikudou Sasuke and nearly blitzed Rikudo Senjutsu Naruto, but that's worth note anyway even if it's not that version of Kakashi in the thread. 

On the other note. Fucking Edo fucking Itachi's casting of Amaterasu is slower than Killer Bee fucking throwing a fucking sword (26) that is dodged with ease by fucking base Fuu (27). Nagato could sense Itachi charging Amaterasu (no one in the manga sensed Kakashi using long range Kamui... Pain with the Rinnegan could see chakra, he didn't see Kakashi activating Mangekyo, hence charging chakra in his eye, and using Kamui; because Kakashi's execution is too sudden and fast, after he mastered the jutsu he doesn't need to charge anything) and before it was launched, even after the eye already cried blood, Bee could launch a sword that would have reached Itachi before the Amaterasu flames even started. 

Base Killer B can react and throw a sword before Itachi can complete an already started Amaterasu. Hachibi reacted to Amaterasu. Hebi Sasuke reacted to Amaterasu and dodged it for some time. Full speed Ei reacted to Amaterasu and dodged it with ease. Basically everyone and their mother who aren't fodder can react to Amaterasu, most can counter it.

I don't think I need to say anything else. Kamui shits to much on Amaterasu that Itachi trolling Orochimaru is nothing in comparison.




As said, that was for 1MS Kakashi. DMS Kakashi negs so hard I can't fathom. Itachi is a skilled and powerful ninja, but not compare him with people far, far, far, far, far more haxxed and powerful.


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## Duhul10 (Aug 8, 2015)

wow, I think nobody could ever surpass Raikiri in wanking Kakashi, i mean like never ever. 
Restrict Kakashi's Kamui and Itachi shits on every version bar DMS, same for Jiraiya.
do not restrict and they still can beat him if OOC is not permitted.
OOC permitted and he could still fall to FCD or Amaterasu IMO ( smaller chances though ).
and about that Jiraiya and Itachi thing you mention, trust me, Hussain is not the only one to believe Jiraiya is at least on par with Itachi, not even close ( let's say excluding the edo boosts he got )
oh and, there will always exist bunshins for jutsus like that, Peace


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> I'm certain it was Kakashi having Rikudo's chakra that made the difference, if only his eyes were stronger, then his reaction timing/physical speed wouldn't have increased as much as it did.


stop operating under preconceived notions. obito possessed no rikudo chakra at the time of his death, so he would have none to pass onto kakashi.


DaVizWiz said:


> He also used a Black Raikiri, that requires six paths power (rikudo chakra) if we consider Sasuke's statement [1]
> 
> Kakashi wasn't possessing Obito's body (permanently enhanced as Kami claims), he was essentially empowered by his _spirit_, so he wouldn't have been able to use rikudo raikiri unless you can somehow asspull an explanation as to how the state of his body (which was turned to ash) transferred through his spirit into Kakashi (enhancing his body to somehow have the ability to utilize Rikudo Raikiri- a bodily technique).


you are operating under the assumption that simply because kakashi raikiri was black, he possessed rikudo chakra.

since we already know that obito possessed none when he died, the existence of kakashis black raikiri stems from raikiri being imbued with kamuis power.

obitos chakra was permanently enhanced from when he did possess rikudo chakra.


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## Kai (Aug 8, 2015)

Kakashi would not be able to injure Kaguya without Rikudo's chakra.


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## Nikushimi (Aug 8, 2015)

Itachi mindfucks with Izanami and finishes him off.


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## Miyazaki Haiko (Aug 8, 2015)

Settling some disputes:

War-Arc Kamui is executed faster than Amaterasu. However, Itachi is the most powerful Uchiha barring Madara, so I believe if Itachi's in full health, he can evade Kamui long enough to either set up Susano'o as defense or activate Amaterasu to deal some damage.

Though there is the chance that Kamui would be a one-hit-kill move from Kakashi, given that a 2-eye Kamui is definitely going to be easier and faster than 1-eye Kamui from a non-Uchiha.


War-Arc Kakashi is still the same Kakashi with the same physique as before, and thus most likely will have serious problems with prolonged 2-MS usage, unlike Itachi, whose only restraining factor in the manga was his ill health. Thus, on the side of a battle of attrition, Itachi would irrevocably win.

However, if you count the fact that somehow, Kakashi's chakra had adapted itself to 2-eye MS, which I saw no indication of, then the fight would be marginally more even. He would be able to pull off Susano'o and hold it, while still firing off other signature MS moves...that are in Obito's eye. Which is basically Kamui, internal and external.

Upon some thought, which makes Susuano'o not relevant, because Susano'o is the absolute defense, right? But internal-Kamui makes the user intangible, which is itself a sort of absolute defense, and even Minato had trouble with intangibility... So maybe Kakashi would start off with intangibility, and not need to waste chakra with Susano'o.

Kamui on himself would also allow him to execute his signature Raikiri on Itachi...but Itachi would see through it, and dodge...

Itachi, on the other hand, has several attacks in his arsenal that is catered to an Uchiha with a MS. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, even Izanami if he was willing to sacrifice one eye. Then there's his Susano'o with the Yata Mirror and the Sword of Totsuka, which gives him the most powerful offense and defense, and pretty much renders long-distance attacks completely useless.

If one is to argue that Kakashi can use his dogs or himself to get under and within Susano'o ribcage, we forget that a healthy Itachi is perfectly capable of a complete Susano'o. Even if Kakashi or his dogs is somehow successful, a simple hop in time from Itachi (which I believe that someone that can become ANBU Captain at the age of 13 is fully capable off) would place the Susano'o between them again, and squash Kakashi or/and his dogs like bugs.

Not to mention if we're talking about summons, Itachi most likely have a summoning contract with some type of avian, and birds against dogs is a one-sided beatdown with the birds emerging victorious because they can fly.

So basically, the outcome of this hypothetical match is Itachi's victory through attrition/damage or a very painful draw that ends in Kakashi's death of chakra exhaustion or Kakashi's one-hit-kill Kamui, in order of highest possibility.


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## Miyazaki Haiko (Aug 8, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi mindfucks with Izanami and finishes him off.



My take on that:

Kakashi breaks out of Izanami easy as pie.

Izanami is only useful when the person caught doesn't want to give up. Kakashi wasn't the genius of his generation through the lack of competition. He was smart and powerful. So, he'll realize the genjutsu and how it can't be broken by conventional means, and break out of Izanami by admitting defeat in his current approach and take on Itachi some other way. Thus, Itachi has wasted one eye and now cannot use either Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi, a chance the Uchiha will definitely NOT take.


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## Matty (Aug 8, 2015)

Raikiri19 said:


> Is this a joke or what? Kakashi negs. 1MS Kakashi already defeats Itachi, what's the point in put a far more haxxed and powerful version of Kakashi against Itachi. Kamui GG.



1MS Kakashi does not beat a healthy Itachi. But Kakashi wins this more times than not just because of Kamui and his knowledge of Tsukuyomi


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Kai said:


> Kakashi would not be able to injure Kaguya without Rikudo's chakra.



when was it stated that six paths chakra was needed to hurt kaguya?


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> stop operating under preconceived notions. obito possessed no rikudo chakra at the time of his death, so he would have none to pass onto kakashi.



He definitely did, it was a prerequisite required to harm the Juubi Jinchurikis, otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to. Also, to further push the point home, there's this scan and this scan.


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## DaVizWiz (Aug 8, 2015)

Amaterasu > Kamui in speed



Izanami (MS destroying (No more Susano, and no more of one these two Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi for remainder of battle/his life)), extreme prep, a technique not designed for combat use as per Itachi's words) being used in any simulation by Itachi



Izanami being prepped and applied to Kakashi before Kamui is used



By the end of this thread I may grow a third palm on my face. The same dudes every year with the same bullshit.


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2015)

DaVizWiz said:


> Amaterasu > Kamui in speed
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can add DMS Kakashi not having Rikudo chakra even if canonically stated () (not to mention the fact that he was able to create a black Raikiri and hurt Juubi jinchuriki-like being with ninjutsu, something you need senjutsu chakra or Rikudo chakra to do as canonically stated).

Anyway mastered 1MS Kakashi >>> Itachi, DMS Rikudo Kakashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Itachi.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

I thought removing rikuodo charka would bring them both down to even levels, Itachi if ever before, only had an advantage thanks to Susano'o. This shit has gone every which way possible but that


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## Mercurial (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> I thought removing rikuodo charka would bring them both down to even levels, Itachi if ever before, only had an advantage thanks to Susano'o. This shit has gone every which way possible but that



Not at all. DMS Kakashi even with Rikudo chakra has a Perfect Susanoo and the combined mastered MS powers of War Arc Kakashi and MS Obito, both of them on Itachi's level and above with only 1/2 of the full MS powers; MS powers that are fare more haxxed than Itachi's.

Even without Rikudo chakra, Kakashi self teleports in Itachi's Susanoo (both eyes allow him to teleport at maximized speed; not to mention that a single eye already allows to teleport quickly enough to surprise Itachi) and kills him with Kamui Raikiri, or warping his head/body away in a millisecond. Or it's just Kamui GG on Susanoo or on Itachi in Susanoo. Or Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo rapes Itachi's Susanoo, or whatever Kakashi does with his MS powers allows him to defeat Itachi.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> He definitely did, it was a prerequisite required to harm the Juubi Jinchurikis, otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have been able to. Also, to further push the point home, there's this scan and this scan.


not once was it stated that six paths chakra was a prerequisite needed to hurt a juubi jinchuriki. kakashi stated that gaining six paths power enhances ones ocular powers. obitos sharingan was enhanced from when he was a juubi jinchuriki. thats the most any reader should get from kakashis statement, given that obito possessed no six paths chakra when he died.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Nikushimi said:


> Itachi mindfucks with Izanami and finishes him off.





As soon as Itachi tries to utilise Tsukuyomi, or Amaterasu, he gets warped. Of course, he has a chance of reacting to Kamui, because he reacted to Kirin once. 

But just look at this pathetic small Susanoo skeleton which he used to protect himself from Kirin. Itachi gets warped.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> *not once was it stated that six paths chakra was a prerequisite needed to hurt a juubi jinchuriki*. kakashi stated that gaining six paths power enhances ones ocular powers. obitos sharingan was enhanced from when he was a juubi jinchuriki. thats the most any reader should get from kakashis statement, given that obito possessed no six paths chakra when he died.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

senjutsu=/=six paths chakra.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Six Paths Chakra = Six Paths Senjutsu, a form of senjutsu, which is why both Kakashi and Sasuke's Raikiri/Chidori was remade into a newer technique.


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## Kai (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:
			
		

> senjutsu=/=six paths chakra.


Becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki in of itself is a variant of Six Paths senjutsu 

You have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Six Paths Chakra = Six Paths Senjutsu, a form of senjutsu, which is why both Kakashi and Sasuke's Raikiri/Chidori was remade into a newer technique.


six paths chakra is not senjutsu. madara awakened this same chakra yet needed hashiramas sage chakra in order to face obito. six paths *sage* chakra allows one to manifest six paths senjutsu.

sasukes black chidori was due to him borrowing power from the moon seal. kakashis black raikiri was due to it being infused with kamuis power.



Kai said:


> Becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki in of itself is a variant of Six Paths senjutsu
> 
> You have no idea what you're talking about.


becoming a juubi jin grants six paths senjutsu. why are you telling me this?
your statement has absolutely nothing to do with my post.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> six paths chakra is not senjutsu. madara awakened this same chakra yet needed hashiramas sage chakra in order to face obito. six paths *sage* chakra allows one to manifest six paths senjutsu.
> 
> sasukes black chidori was due to him borrowing power from the moon seal. kakashis black raikiri was due to it being infused with kamuis power.


Becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki in of itself is a variant of Six Paths senjutsu 

You have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> Becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki in of itself is a variant of Six Paths senjutsu
> 
> You have no idea what you're talking about.



becoming a juubi jin grants six paths senjutsu. there are no variations of six paths senjutsu. 

six paths sage chakra=six paths chakra+natural energy. there is no exception to this.
naruto, madara, obito and hagoromo all wielded the exact same senjutsu.

what i really want to know is why you're telling me this. by the looks of it, it seems that you're incapable of reading my post correctly.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> becoming a juubi jin grants six paths senjutsu. there are no variations of six paths senjutsu.
> 
> six paths sage chakra=six paths chakra+natural energy. there is no exception to this.
> naruto, madara, obito and hagoromo all wielded the exact same senjutsu.
> ...



You have no idea what you're talking about.

The moment you become the Juubi, you're chakra is automatically converted to that of the Six Paths. There is undeniable proof of this in the manga, you're just too butthurt to admit it.


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## Shinobi no Kami (Aug 8, 2015)

Ryuzaki said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> The moment you become the Juubi, you're chakra is automatically converted to that of the Six Paths. There is undeniable proof of this in the manga, you're just too butthurt to admit it.



what are you talking about? why are you talking about the juubi? that was never a subject in the discussion.
this says a lot about your inability to properly follow the actual discussion.


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## Ryuzaki (Aug 8, 2015)

Shinobi no Kami said:


> what are you talking about? why are you talking about the juubi? that was never a subject in the discussion.
> this says a lot about your inability to properly follow the actual discussion.



You have no idea what you're talking about.

The moment you become the Juubi Jin, you're chakra is automatically converted to that of the Six Paths. There is undeniable proof of this in the manga, you're just too butthurt to admit it.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 8, 2015)

Anyway, Kakashi Kamui-warps Itachi.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 8, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> Kakashi's Kamui execution speed has been shown to be faster. Itachi has to shut down his aye before making Amaterasu.




Like I said, Kakashi never used it offensively on a shinobi, it is hard to measure it because there is no way to compare both.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 9, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Like I said, Kakashi never used it offensively on a shinobi, it is hard to measure it because there is no way to compare both.



I assume the Kakashi in this thread has full mastery over Kamui. Well then, he warps Itachi. He warped Gedo Mazo's arm, it will be easy to warp Itachi. 

And he doesnt need to shut down his aye and spend much time on gathering chakra, like Itachi before using Amaterasu.


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## Grimmjowsensei (Aug 9, 2015)

StarWanderer said:


> I assume the Kakashi in this thread has full mastery over Kamui. Well then, he warps Itachi. He warped Gedo Mazo's arm, it will be easy to warp Itachi.
> 
> And he doesnt need to shut down his aye and spend much time on gathering chakra, like Itachi before using Amaterasu.



Gedo is a immobile giant target, that doesn't prove anything.

All of Kamui's feats are utility feats, or defensive feats. We need offensive feats from both to make a proper comparison.


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## Santoryu (Aug 9, 2015)

Phasing, head sniping, and Susano all in one shinobi? Itachi gets embarrassed.


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## Mercurial (Aug 9, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gedo is a immobile giant target, that doesn't prove anything.
> 
> All of Kamui's feats are utility feats, or defensive feats. We need offensive feats from both to make a proper comparison.



Who gets a giant mass of him warped in the same time required to summon him away with instant summoning. With KCM Minato unable to do anything as quickly and having to ask Kakashi what happened because he himself was unable to tell. Most of people stand still, with a giant area warped around them in an instant, they are fucked up. The funny thing is that they can't even react in first place, but even if they react, there's no time to do anythig because a millisecond after they are already warped.

Kakashi could casually warp two Susanoo arrows shooted suddenly by at most twenty metres, when the arrows were half way Kakashi still had the 3T Sharingan. Most of people aren't faster than Susanoo arrows and pre War Kamui was already much faster than Susanoo arrows.

Kakashi could warp a Rasengan by KCM Naruto in the same time that Naruto dashing on Obito could move 5 cm at most. Even if one was to argue that Naruto wasn't using his full speed, no Shunshin KCM Naruto is casually as fast as Itachi and V1 Ei, and Kakashi used Kamui far faster than Naruto's movement. Imagine if Kakashi (who could feint Pain and Itachi of all people) fools you to fight a Kage Bunshin, and while you fight with it he uses Kamui on you. You die because your head suddenly disappers from the body and you don't even know why or what happened.

Kakashi, while dashing at high speed and being far from the objective, could feint to warp a Rasengan from BM Naruto to suddenly warp BM Naruto's clone's body before Kamui propelled stakes could hit Naruto point blank, that was with Obito, with top notch reflexes, Mangekyo + Rinnegan vision and full knowledge, unable to tell what happened. Imagine if Kakashi (who could feint Pain and Itachi of all people) fools you to fight a Kage Bunshin, and while you fight with it he uses Kamui on you. You die because your head suddenly disappers from the body and you don't even know why or what happened.

Kakashi was able to warp Minato's Rasengan who was suddenly kicked to him by Juudara; it was a suprise attack that suddenly appeared breaking Gaara's sand wall, so Kakashi had to react point blank with his LoS previously blocked to an attack by a Juubi jinchuriki, and still reacted and used Kamui quickly enough on it; mind that Juudara kicks things very fast, Minato's body was kicked so fast that Minato couldn't even react to Hiraishin away and Gaara's automatic sand defense couldn't activate in time to protect Gaara from the impact. Kakashi can Kamui GG even in CQC with people like Ei, casually.

Do I need to continue to embarass your Kamui downplay? Itachi gets defeated by 1MS Kakashi already, he has not a single chance on a million against a DMS Kakashi, even if you restrict Kakashi's Rikudo chakra, Itachi would still be negged.


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## T-Bag (Aug 9, 2015)

Kamui isn't the problem. Perfect Susano is

Itachi is a smart player, he'll figure a way around kamui just like other strong ninja have in the past, but when he pulls out perfect susano.. not much itachi can do in that stage. Unless Itachi has Kotoamatsukami, then he wins. itachi would have him fight stupid and give him the win.


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## StarWanderer (Aug 10, 2015)

Grimmjowsensei said:


> Gedo is a immobile giant target, that doesn't prove anything.
> 
> All of Kamui's feats are utility feats, or defensive feats. We need offensive feats from both to make a proper comparison.



Itachi is not fast enough to move out of it's way. He wont be able to do anything. And if Gedo Mazo's arm was warped, then i see no problem for Kakashi to warp Itachi himself.


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## Ersa (Aug 10, 2015)

Somehow I don't see IC Kakashi at 20m instantly warping Itachi.

Without Rikudo chakra he's going to burn out almost instantly but he can possibly Kamui Itachi in that time unless the latter plays his cards right with clones and gets damn lucky. So it's close I guess.


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