# Shanks vs Akainu



## Finalbeta (Oct 13, 2015)

Location: Fishman Island

Fight to the Death


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## Orca (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanls has better hype and portrayal. So i'll give this to him until we get more info.


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## Tenma (Oct 13, 2015)

Akainu will give him hell but Shanks wins without a doubt.


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## Extravlad (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanks doesn't have better hype and portrayal, your fanboyism because he is Luffy's idol/a popular character doesn't make him more hyped from an objective point of view.

Shanks is the least hyped Yonko alongside Big Mom


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## Orca (Oct 13, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Shanks doesn't have better hype and portrayal, your fanboyism because he is Luffy's idol/a popular character doesn't make him more hyped from an objective point of view.
> 
> Shanks is the least hyped Yonko alongside Big Mom



Nah I like Akainu more than Shanks. So I'm pretty objective. You on the other hand hate shanks. That I know of.


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## savior2005 (Oct 13, 2015)

Could go either way. I view them as equals.


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## Bernkastel (Oct 13, 2015)

Could go either way. I believe Shanks to be slightly stronger but since Akainu has insanely good feats it doesn't feel right put him solidly above him.
Akainu/Kaido/Shanks/Dragon are propably the strongest characters alive with minimal difference in strength between them.


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## Kaiser (Oct 13, 2015)

Akainu extreme difficulty. He has better hype and portrayal


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## Raiden34 (Oct 13, 2015)

Lmao... Shanks has better portrayal, he didn't get K.O by half dead Wb. Shanks high diffs.


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## TheWiggian (Oct 13, 2015)

Nothing changed. Akainu wins with extreme diff.


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## HisMajestyMihawk (Oct 13, 2015)

Extreme  diff either way


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## Bohemian Knight (Oct 13, 2015)

I'd say they're about even... strongest pirate (for now). Shanks 6/10, all fights ending in extreme diff


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## Kaiser (Oct 13, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> Lmao... Shanks has better portrayal, he didn't get K.O by half dead Wb. Shanks high diffs.


From behind. Plus, that was pretimeskip Akainu. Before he got the hype of defeating another admiral. Also, marines and pirates are parallel. When Akainu has the portrayal of strongest marine, among the pirates, Shanks is at the very least below Kaido and WB(when he was alive). Akainu does have better portrayal


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## Raiden34 (Oct 13, 2015)

Kaiser said:


> From behind. Plus, that was pretimeskip Akainu. Before he got the hype of defeating another admiral. Also, marines and pirates are parallel. When Akainu has the hype of strongest marine, among the pirates, Shanks is at the very least below Kaido and WB(when he was alive). Akainu does have better portrayal



What portrayal of Sakazuki puts him above Shanks ? Behind or not doesn't matter, Wb got stabbed by Squardo as well, Kizaru attacked Marco from behind, Aokiji attacked Jozu while he was looking at Marco, Akainu attacked Luffy while he was fighting with Ace and that's how he killed him. Sakazuki's only portrayal is beating Ivankov, Jinbe and Curiel, and beating Ace via his DF power advantage only.

Are you putting 10days long Aokiji fight as a good portrayal ? It only shows that how equal they are, doesn't mean he is any better than Kuzan.

Shanks has a hype to be equal with Whitebeard due to their epic haki clash and being Yonko rivals, while Sakazuki has none plus getting K.O from half dead Wb with two-hits. 

More importantly, Shanks ended the war while Akainu wanted to continue, which puts him above of him as well.

*Spoiler*: __ 










Shanks > Akainu


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## King plasma (Oct 13, 2015)

Toss up imo. Shanks isn't all that he's going to be brought down by the Kid alliance sooner or later. Akainu is basically the second last villain.


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## Johnny Rain (Oct 13, 2015)

How is Akainus portrayal better than Shanks when he's been hyoed as Mihawk rival whom we know is placated above Akainu given Zoro's projected stature.


Shanks High High difficulty


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## KamiKira (Oct 13, 2015)

Shakns due the better plot relevance and portrayal


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## ShadoLord (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanks, proven by what happened in the war. 

Akainu backed off immediately after seeing Shanks.


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## J★J♥ (Oct 13, 2015)

Akainu killed Ace, burned off half of WBs head.
First time we saw Shanks he got his hand eaten by a fish.
Second time we saw Shanks he was running around telling tales of how scary and dangerous fruitless Blackbeard is.

I'd say Akainu wins.


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## Sumu (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanks extreme diff.


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## giantbiceps (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanks is overwhelmingly stronger. He mid-diffs Akainu.


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## blueframe01 (Oct 13, 2015)

Shanks wins. he wouldn't need 2 heart attacks, a stabbed chest and a free hit to take on WB.


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## trance (Oct 14, 2015)

Toss-up, IMO.


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 14, 2015)

blueframe01 said:


> Shanks wins. he wouldn't need 2 heart attacks, a stabbed chest and a free hit to take on WB.


Yes, I'm sure the man who fought against another Admiral for ten days straight (turning his half of the island into hell on earth in the process), and who blew off half the WSM's head even when Whitebeard had the drop on Akainu, would be completely incapable of putting up a fight against a fresh Whitebeard (and I seriously doubt a stab from fodder like Squard did *that* much considering how much damage Whitebeard took in the war)...

OT: could go either way. There's really no way to tell which of the two is stronger right now.


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## barreltheif (Oct 14, 2015)

Tossup, but I'd probably favor Akainu. My sense of Shanks is he could maybe have ended up being the WSM, but instead he chose to bet his strength on the next generation, giving up some of his potential. It wouldn't surprise me if he were the weakest yonkou.


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## Freechoice (Oct 14, 2015)

Shanks high diff

People seem to conveniently forget that Shanks has the most going for him in the entire series. His hype is ludicrous. Literally the Roger of the mid gen.

So a dude who is possibly the strongest Yonko currently - and don't get started with that Kaido bs - vs a plebian admiral that is nothing more than the Gorosei's fucking dog.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


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## Amol (Oct 14, 2015)

Shanks extreme diff.


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## giantbiceps (Oct 14, 2015)

lol said:


> Shanks high diff



Wat wrong with u ?


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## Freechoice (Oct 14, 2015)

what did I do


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## Extravlad (Oct 14, 2015)

> Nah I like Akainu more than Shanks. So I'm pretty objective. You on the other hand hate shanks. That I know of.


I doubt you do, Shanks has absolutely none of the hype Kaido or WB received, he is the least hyped Yonko alongside BM, we know this is BB's era, we know Kaido is known as the strongest, we know WB was the strongest but Shanks? What does he have going for him?

Shanks is Luffy's idol and a popular character, that's the only reason why people assume he must be stronger than Akainu, it's not hype that Oda has given, you guys just follow a hypetrain created by the fanbase.

Remind me the Minato > Hashirama or Ging > Meruem bullshit back in the days 

Protagonist father/father figure are always overrated as fuck.


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## Freechoice (Oct 14, 2015)

Ging is strong af

so is Minato and Hashirama

not sure what you're going for


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## Extravlad (Oct 14, 2015)

Ging is below Netero and Meruem.
He's also below the Royal Guards in raw strength, maybe he could beat them with HAX, but I doubt it honestly, Pitou and Yupi would kill him 1V1.


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## Freechoice (Oct 14, 2015)

Netero said he's one of the top nen users in the world

friend can mimic any ability after being hit by it

and it's not even a nen ability, just natural talent

c'mon brah Togashi is clearly portraying him as not necessarily bruteforce strong like Uvogin, but strong af in the sense that he'll fuck you up with crazy ass nenjutsu intelligence shit

oh yeah I forgot about his intelligence. Easily the most cunning and deductive dude in the series thus far. He's always fucking 10 steps ahead of everyone... including Pariston 

 In a manga where fights are centred around strategy, that counts for a lot.


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## Orca (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> I doubt you do, Shanks has absolutely none of the hype Kaido or WB received, he is the least hyped Yonko alongside BM, we know this is BB's era, we know Kaido is known as the strongest, we know WB was the strongest but Shanks? What does he have going for him?
> 
> Shanks is Luffy's idol and a popular character, that's the only reason why people assume he must be stronger than Akainu, it's not hype that Oda has given, you guys just follow a hypetrain created by the fanbase.
> 
> ...



You are a shanks hater. Your opinion is not objective at all and your reasoning is dumb. I could care less about Shanks being a popular character or being Luffy's "idol". Shanks could have less hype than WB/Kaido and it's still enough to be > Akainu.


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## Johnny Rain (Oct 14, 2015)

Luffee said:


> You are a shanks hater. Your opinion is not objective at all and your reasoning is dumb. I could care less about Shanks being a popular character or being Luffy's "idol". Shanks could have less hype than WB/Kaido and it's still enough to be > Akainu.



This. The Gerousi treated him like some piece of shit brat. No high end top tier gets disrespected like that yet can expect to beat one of the 4 rulers of the seas those same Gerousi fear.


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## Johnny Rain (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Ging is below Netero and Meruem.
> He's also below the Royal Guards in raw strength, maybe he could beat them with HAX, but I doubt it honestly, Pitou and Yupi would kill him 1V1.



Ging would stomp the total guards, what? Adult Gon is just Prime Gon and we all know father won't lag to far behind


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## Extravlad (Oct 14, 2015)

What make you think Ging is even in his prime? 
What make you think Gon will ever reach his prime?
We know what it took for Netero to reach his prime, he was like 48 year old and had to do nothing but train every single day for 3 fucking entire years.

Ging is like 32 and doesn't have the same dedication Netero had.


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## Canute87 (Oct 14, 2015)

Shanks takes this with some serious injuries.


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## Canute87 (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Shanks doesn't have better hype and portrayal, your fanboyism because he is Luffy's idol/a popular character doesn't make him more hyped from an objective point of view.
> 
> Shanks is the least hyped Yonko alongside Big Mom



yeah  no world's strongest title to his name  yet he clashed evenly with whitebeard and sent kaidou home.


Let's hope there's no hype with him as his feats are talking far more.


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## Dunno (Oct 14, 2015)

Shanks high diffs or something. Akainu's fight against Aokiji is his downfall.


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## Hand Banana (Oct 14, 2015)

Akainu can change the environment. Doubt Shanks can fight on an island covered with lava.


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## Extravlad (Oct 14, 2015)

> yeah no world's strongest title to his name yet he clashed evenly with whitebeard and sent kaidou home.


Unimpressive really, clashing evenly with WB isn't something to be proud of, Sakazuki did it too, Chinjao clashed evenly with Luffy how did it ends up for him? Not very well.



> . Shanks could have less hype than WB/Kaido and it's still enough to be > Akainu.


Akainu > Kaido/Shanks.


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## Alakazam (Oct 14, 2015)

It's a tough one... I think it would be a mistake to underestimate Shanks, he has an insane portrayal. The man had a really impressive entrance on the boat of a yonko rival knocking out most of the member thanks to his "aura" which lead a top tier like Jozu to praise his "amazing haki", he was shown to clash equally with Whitebeard splitting the heavens above them, one of the most impressive moments of the manga. The man ended a bloody war just by saying he'll get involved if they don't stop.

He may not have a lot of feats but there is no point in denying that the man got impressive portrayal. I'll give it to Shanks extreme diff for now.


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## Canute87 (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Unimpressive really, clashing evenly with WB isn't something to be proud of, Sakazuki did it too, Chinjao clashed evenly with Luffy how did it ends up for him? Not very well.
> .



lol what?

Sazazuki is in the upper echelons of power. though what he stopped was a quake attack from a weakened whitebeard attacking upwards.

Shanks with one arm stopped a stronger version of whitebeard slicing downwards.

Chinjao  was clashing evenly until luffy got serious.


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## Orca (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Unimpressive really, clashing evenly with WB isn't something to be proud of, Sakazuki did it too, Chinjao clashed evenly with Luffy how did it ends up for him? Not very well.
> 
> 
> Akainu > Kaido/Shanks.


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## Extravlad (Oct 14, 2015)

What's up with that panel? Oda said Mihawk Shanks and Whitebeard were all legends amongst men.

Clearly it doesn't prove Rayleigh is on WB's lvl.


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## Canute87 (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> What's up with that panel? Oda said Mihawk Shanks and Whitebeard were all legends amongst men.
> 
> Clearly it doesn't prove Rayleigh is on WB's lvl.



I guess because Rayleigh as strong as he is is still a minor character why da didn't bring him up at the top of his head.

Clearly those three are more relevant to the current story.


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## Orca (Oct 14, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> What's up with that panel? Oda said Mihawk Shanks and Whitebeard were all legends amongst men.
> 
> Clearly it doesn't prove Rayleigh is on WB's lvl.


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## Raiden34 (Oct 14, 2015)

They can't even deal with alone and old Whitebeard, they called all 3 Admirals, all Vice-Admirals, all Shichibukai, and they even take help from the World Government via Px Army.

How can someone who is not Akainu fanboy can tell that Akainu was equal to Old Whitebeard like Shanks and Kaido were, while he personally convinced Squardo to stab Whitebeard in order to stop most of his power ? And Akainu still get K.O in the end by the half dead Whitebeard...

Obviously Akainu, or other Admirals are not on the same tier with Yonko, they might be a little better than the Yonko sidekicks such as Marco, Jozu and Beckman, but they are not equal to Yonko.


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## DavyChan (Oct 14, 2015)

yonkou>admirals

omg. smh


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## Daisuke Jigen (Oct 14, 2015)

Erkan12 said:


> *They can't even deal with alone and old Whitebeard*, they called all 3 Admirals, all Vice-Admirals, all Shichibukai, and they even take help from the World Government via Px Army.


Except Whitebeard wasn't alone at Marineford...


Erkan12 said:


> he personally convinced Squardo to stab Whitebeard in order to *stop most of his power* ?


So a stab from fodder like Squard drained most of the strength from Whitebeard, aka the guy who took many more injuries in the war and could fight on even after getting his insides melted? I find that really hard to believe, sorry.


Erkan12 said:


> And Akainu still get K.O in the end by the half dead Whitebeard.


Guess what happens when you give Akainu a freeshot against Whitebeard?
Guess what happens when you give Kizaru a freeshot against Whitebeard?
And so on.


Erkan12 said:


> Obviously Akainu, or other Admirals are not on the same tier with Yonko, *they might be a little better than the Yonko sidekicks such as Marco, Jozu*





Erkan12 said:


> and Beckman


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## Gohara (Oct 15, 2015)

Shanks wins with around mid difficulty at most, IMO.


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## trance (Oct 15, 2015)

Akainu has been hyped as Luffy's most powerful and dangerous adversary after Teach and as such, the penultimate villain of the series. He will fight a Luffy close to his prime and it will be a bloodbath with Luffy winning by the skin of his teeth. He's not just going to be casually steamrolled like other antagonists because that's not what his portrayal and hype suggest. Some of this is speculative but not without good reason.


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## Finalbeta (Oct 15, 2015)

Actually Shanks is the most hyped Yonko out there

Stopped Kaido from reaching WB
Stopped the War
As BB is new out there he is still considered to be stronger atm

Anyway I'm still talking about hype and not real strenght


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## Captain Altintop (Oct 15, 2015)

Shanks vs FA Akainu? It could go either way.


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## Johnny Rain (Oct 15, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> What make you think Ging is even in his prime?
> What make you think Gon will ever reach his prime?
> We know what it took for Netero to reach his prime, he was like 48 year old and had to do nothing but train every single day for 3 fucking entire years.
> 
> Ging is like 32 and doesn't have the same dedication Netero had.



That's even more hype to ging then since he's already in the top 5.

Man I miss Hunter x Hunter


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## Gohara (Oct 19, 2015)

Extravlad said:


> Remind me the Minato > Hashirama or Ging > Meruem bullshit back in the days
> 
> Protagonist father/father figure are always overrated as fuck.



I don't see how those examples disagrees with the idea of Shanks being in the top 4 of most powerful characters in the series including Roger and Prime Whitebeard and potentially Pirate King level.  Especially the Ging vs. Meruem example.

Those characters usually are insanely powerful, especially in major Shonen series.  Reborn is basically second to none other than Kawahira in Katekyo Hitman Reborn.  Isshin is second only to characters like Yamamoto, Juha, and Oshou who would be the Pirate King equivalents in Bleach.  As far as non-fused characters go, only one character outside of Gohan is more powerful than Goku.


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## Tenma (Oct 19, 2015)

Shanks is not Pirate King level. He admits PK is a step ahead...which means he's Yonko level, plain and simple.

And the Goku example is terrible as he is literally the protagonist. If we are talking Gohan a better examole would be Piccolo. And Isshin may be in the top tier of characters, but there's still a metric ton of characters as strong as stronger than him.


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## Gohara (Oct 19, 2015)

Aside from that being the Red Hair Pirates from over 10 years ago, the statement could easily be interpreted as referring to their status.  Even if Shanks is Pirate King level, he's not the Pirate King, so being Pirate King would still be of higher status than him.

Gohan is actually originally considered the main protagonist of Part 2 of Dragon Ball or at bare minimum with equal status.

There are only 3 characters who are clearly more powerful than Isshin unless we include characters in temporary forms in which case there are 2 others.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 19, 2015)

Tenma said:


> Shanks is not Pirate King level. He admits PK is a step ahead...which means he's Yonko level, plain and simple.
> 
> And the Goku example is terrible as he is literally the protagonist. If we are talking Gohan a better examole would be Piccolo. And Isshin may be in the top tier of characters, but there's still a metric ton of characters as strong as stronger than him.



To be fair, Shanks was still quite young at that point and could have gotten stronger. We also don't know if he was one of the emperors around that time. I would say most characters reach their prime around 40 years old, though Teach is definitely a special case.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2015)

Gohara said:


> As far as non-fused characters go, only one character outside of Gohan is more powerful than Goku.



Your knowledge is dated, man. Gohan is now _vastly_ inferior to Goku or Vegeta.


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## Gohara (Oct 19, 2015)

I'm referring to canon characters and characters in their canon forms.  Otherwise GT would count and it wouldn't matter what new material there is unless Gohan also reached such levels in that non-canon material.


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## Tenma (Oct 19, 2015)

Gohara said:


> Aside from that being the Red Hair Pirates from over 10 years ago, the statement could easily be interpreted as referring to their status.  Even if Shanks is Pirate King level, he's not the Pirate King, so being Pirate King would still be of higher status than him.
> 
> Gohan is actually originally considered the main protagonist of Part 2 of Dragon Ball or at bare minimum with equal status.
> 
> There are only 3 characters who are clearly more powerful than Isshin unless we include characters in temporary forms in which case there are 2 others.



You _know_ it doesn't just mean status. The Pirate King stands above all else and Shanks acknowledges it, this is pretty much a clear indicator Lufy will be on a different level from Shanks once he becomes PK.

Sure didn't look that way when Goku beat Buu while Gohan was dead. Goku was definitely the main protagonist of the first half and probably of the second and underwent the same meteoric power growth as Gohan. Shanks is not comparable.

Isshin is clearly weaker than Bach, Aizen, Ichibe, Yama, Ichigo, Uryu, Haschwalth and in the same general league as the Elites, Royal Guards, Urahara. Shanks is only clearly weaker than Kaido (if that) and in the same league as the Yonko/Akainu. No need for him to be on a whole separate level.


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## Tenma (Oct 19, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> To be fair, Shanks was still quite young at that point and could have gotten stronger. We also don't know if he was one of the emperors around that time. I would say most characters reach their prime around 40 years old, though Teach is definitely a special case.



The implication is that once Luffy reaches Pirate King he will be on a different level. Not 'Shanks grows also and Luffy is as strong as him when he is PK'.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2015)

Gohara said:


> I'm referring to canon characters and characters in their canon forms.  Otherwise GT would count and it wouldn't matter what new material there is unless Gohan also reached such levels in that non-canon material.



Battle of Gods is canon, m8. :lmqo


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## Gohara (Oct 19, 2015)

If you're saying that because it was advertised that Toriyama "wrote it", it doesn't say much.  Most Anime movies say that these days, and besides you can count on two hands or more how many things Toriyama was said to have "written", only for it to be revealed later on he didn't have much to do with actually writing it.  Any SSJ form past SSJ3 is highly contradictory of what is possible in the Manga from the Boo Arc and prior.



Tenma said:


> You _know_ it doesn't just mean status. The Pirate King stands above all else and Shanks acknowledges it, this is pretty much a clear indicator Lufy will be on a different level from Shanks once he becomes PK.
> 
> Sure didn't look that way when Goku beat Buu while Gohan was dead. Goku was definitely the main protagonist of the first half and probably of the second and underwent the same meteoric power growth as Gohan. Shanks is not comparable.
> 
> Isshin is clearly weaker than Bach, Aizen, Ichibe, Yama, Ichigo, Uryu, Haschwalth and in the same general league as the Elites, Royal Guards, Urahara. Shanks is only clearly weaker than Kaido (if that) and in the same league as the Yonko/Akainu. No need for him to be on a whole separate level.



-Becoming Pirate King means to be above Whitebeard, who is known to be Pirate King level.  Also, that doesn't address my point that it was Shanks from over 10 years ago.  As for Luffy being a level above Shanks, he will also likely be notably more powerful than Roger.  That doesn't put Shanks from being outside the range of Pirate King level.

-I'm sure you've heard that Toriyama caved in to fan pressure.  He wanted to make Gohan the main character, the fans just didn't want him to.

-How do you figure that he's clearly weaker than Aizen (excluding relatively recent power ups), Ichigo (we have yet to see how powerful he is- granted I do think that by the end of the Series he will be more powerful than Isshin), Uryu, and Haschwalth?


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## David (Oct 19, 2015)

Finalbeta said:


> Location: *Fishman Island*



Akainu throws a magma fist at Shanks and he dodges, magma goes into the sea.  

A sea king jumps out to avoid it and bites Shanks' arm off in the process.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2015)

Gohara said:


> If you're saying that because it was advertised that Toriyama "wrote it", it doesn't say much.  Most Anime movies say that these days, and besides you can count on two hands or more how many things Toriyama was said to have "written", only for it to be revealed later on he didn't have much to do with actually writing it.  Any SSJ form past SSJ3 is highly contradictory of what is possible in the Manga from the Boo Arc and prior.



Toriyama personally said BoG is canon.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 19, 2015)

Tenma said:


> The implication is that once Luffy reaches Pirate King he will be on a different level. Not 'Shanks grows also and Luffy is as strong as him when he is PK'.



Pirate King is basically just a term for someone who rules the seas, which is what'll happen when Luffy defeats Teach and "turns the world upside down" by finding One Piece. 

Whitebeard had never been PK and was stated to have fought Roger equally. His goal was having a family, which might explain why he never ruled the seas or tried to find One Piece. It wouldn't be such a stretch to think Shanks doesn't want One Piece and actually knows what it is.

I'm of the opinion that Shanks is close to Roger's level in power, but their goals simply aren't the same. Luffy is the only character who matches Roger and shares the same goal, which is why I think Shanks made a bet on the next generation.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2015)

Shanks has never been stated nor implied to be close to the same level as his captain. He doesn't even match up to an age and diseased-ridden version of his captain's rival.


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## UltimateBoss (Oct 19, 2015)

Akainu has better hype and feats than Shanks.

I mean for fuck sakes, this guy got his arm bitten off by a SK and waited until the war was over when everyone fought a long battle.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 19, 2015)

trance said:


> Shanks has never been stated nor implied to be close to the same level as his captain. He doesn't even match up to an age and diseased-ridden version of his captain's rival.



Shanks clashed with the strongest version of WB we've seen in the entire manga... so far, at least. Even then, their clash was portrayed equally through the way Oda had split the skies with their Haki. If it's anything to use as evidence, Whitebeard's sickness leaves an arguable impact on his performance in battle. 

I take the claims of WSM with reluctance due to some reasons: ambiguity of the title between Prime/Marineford, whether that has factored in his illness, how the marines managed to gauge his strength, the caliber of pirate that has fought WB to establish individual power and the notion that some characters might not have fought Whitebeard to the point where victory is determined. His statement of not "being the strongest forever" also makes me wonder. It only came up because of his inability to avoid one attack he'd be able to normally dodge - even from allies - according to the statement Marco had made.

It's considered an unreasonable opinion around here, but I really think Old Whitebeard is overrated. Hype, manga evidence, portrayal and scaling would suggest that Shanks is just as strong as Old Whitebeard at the very least.


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## Tenma (Oct 19, 2015)

Gohara said:


> -Becoming Pirate King means to be above Whitebeard, who is known to be Pirate King level.  Also, that doesn't address my point that it was Shanks from over 10 years ago.  As for Luffy being a level above Shanks, he will also likely be notably more powerful than Roger.  That doesn't put Shanks from being outside the range of Pirate King level.



I don't see any reason why Luffy will be notably stronger than Roger. Even if it was Shanks from 10 years ago, the scene was meant to firmly establish that PK>Shanks, and that Roger was greater than Shanks will ever be (this should really be beyond debate). We don't even know if he got stronger since then.

I'm still not seeing why that makes him so much stronger than everyone else by the way. Isshin and Ging are in the big leagues, but Isshin can't mid diff Juha Bach and Ging can't crush Mereum. Shanks being Luffy's idol was foreshadowing that he was a great pirate, and it was revealed he was a Yonko.




> -I'm sure you've heard that Toriyama caved in to fan pressure.  He wanted to make Gohan the main character, the fans just didn't want him to.



If he had his way, Goku would have stayed dead and hence been weaker than...let's start off

Gohan
Vegeta
Trunks
Goten
Buu x2
Dabura

And this basically ignores the fact that Goku and Shanks are not remotely comparable. Hell, the closest thing to an Isshin/Ging type figure is Dragon, not Shanks.




> -How do you figure that he's clearly weaker than Aizen (excluding relatively recent power ups), Ichigo (we have yet to see how powerful he is- granted I do think that by the end of the Series he will be more powerful than Isshin), Uryu, and Haschwalth?



Aizen is stronger now, yeah. I'm figuring relatively recent power-ups obviously. Ichigo is stronger obviously ('we haven't seen how powerful he is' isn't an excuse when you are basically pulling Shanks>>>everyone else out of your ass). Uryu will be as strong as Ichigo, and Haschwalth is basically Yhwach v2. Even ignoring all of them Bach, Yama and Ichibe are all stronger than him. Here you are not only suggesting his 'father figure' title alone makes him the current WSM, but it makes him considerably stronger than everyone else.

Isshin is not remotely comparable to Shanks anyway.


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## trance (Oct 19, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Hype, manga evidence, portrayal and scaling would suggest that Shanks is just as strong as Old Whitebeard at the very least.



Actually, nearly none of those suggest Shanks is as strong as or stronger than Whitebeard in his old age. Whitebeard was repeatedly built up as this extraordinarily powerful and feared entity - even amongst his supposed "peers" - and the single greatest threat to the world. Sure, ambiguity begins when looking at his title and how deteriorated he was but even then, his combat effiency was at a level where only a Marine Admiral could compete with him to a certain extent.

Besides, even if I wanna say Shanks is equal to old Whitebeard, that's far removed from his prime, which is where Roger currently sits.


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## Gohara (Oct 20, 2015)

@ Tenma.

-Aside from One Piece being a major Shonen series, Blackbeard is almost certainly going to be notably more powerful than Prime Whitebeard since he will essentially be like him but with more powerful Devil Fruit abilities.  Luffy is going to surpass Blackbeard who will likely surpass Prime Whitebeard, who is around as powerful as Roger.

-How do you figure that the scene was intended to encompass Shanks' character throughout the entire series?

-Rayleigh and Mureum aren't Blackbeard, and I think that Blackbeard will surpass Shanks.

-I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that list.  As for Goku not being comparable to Shanks, we're discussing the Fathers/Father Figures of the main characters.  I think that similar points can be made about Dragon.

-Okay, but only through the relatively recent power up of a wish granting tool that may or may not always apply and doesn't apply throughout a good portion of the series.  My opinion on Shanks is based partially on those types of characters, and that one of the characters you're suggesting is more powerful than Isshin has an unknown level of power is relevant to whether or not we can rightfully include him.  Uryu being as powerful as Ichigo is not something that has been stated or implied.  It's highly unlikely that Haschwalth is even remotely in Juha's league.  I'm assuming you're referring to Haschwalth being given Juha's abilities while Juha sleeps, but those are Juha's abilities.  I agree about those three characters, but those are a special class of characters far more powerful than any other in the series.  One Piece lacks those types of characters.  I haven't said that Shanks is more powerful than everyone else.  I said that I think that he's Pirate King level.  I would give Dragon the slight edge if I had to choose who's more powerful between them, and there are several characters I think are around his level.



trance said:


> Toriyama personally said BoG is canon.



I'm fairly certain that you're referring to a false rumor that turned out to be Toei Animation saying that  "A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born", but even if that weren't the case Toriyama has stated the same or similar about non-canon things like GT at various points only to later mentioned that he was only partially involved.


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## trance (Oct 20, 2015)

Toriyama wrote the story of Battle of Gods, bro. Plus, there's even a new DB manga (by Toriyama). Check and mate.


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## Gohara (Oct 20, 2015)

Saying that Toriyama wrote it brings me back to:



Gohara said:


> If you're saying that because it was advertised that Toriyama "wrote it", it doesn't say much.  Most Anime movies say that these days, and besides you can count on two hands or more how many things Toriyama was said to have "written", only for it to be revealed later on he didn't have much to do with actually writing it.  Any SSJ form past SSJ3 is highly contradictory of what is possible in the Manga from the Boo Arc and prior.



Also, he actually said that he was a participant in the writing of the movie, not that he wrote the whole thing and he mentioned that he gave other staff members liberty to do things outside of his approval.

Toriyama is doing what he's always done, taking money so they can advertise it as his.  Everything you're saying about it was said about GT and multiple previous movies.

Besides that, my example was in reference to Part 2 of Dragon Ball.  Toriyama considers Goku the main character in Part 1 and Gohan the main character in Part 2.


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## trance (Oct 20, 2015)

But my main point is that characters like Beerus or Whis are canon and they are stronger than either Gohan or pre-Battle of Gods Goku.


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## Amol (Oct 20, 2015)

Why are people still bothering to argue with Gohara ? 
It is like they think they can actually convince him something.
Such a naive optimists.


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## Deleted member 211714 (Oct 20, 2015)

trance said:


> Actually, nearly none of those suggest Shanks is as strong as or stronger than Whitebeard in his old age. Whitebeard was repeatedly built up as this extraordinarily powerful and feared entity - even amongst his supposed "peers" - and the single greatest threat to the world.



Just the one clash between Shanks and WB suggests all of those things - except hype, perhaps - but Oda did call Mihawk/Shanks/WB legends among men, if I recall correctly.

WB was built up as feared/powerful because of his prime and equality with Roger.
I also see no reason why WB was considered a threat to the world. He couldn't care less about One Piece and minded his own business for the most part. 



> Sure, ambiguity begins when looking at his title and how deteriorated he was but even then, his combat effiency was at a level where only a Marine Admiral could compete with him to a certain extent.



Exactly. You said it yourself. There's no way to actually determine how true the statement is, seeing the title could have just stayed with WB's name since his prime. After the stab and other injuries, WB was shown to be on the same level as C3. Akainu basically killed him, in fact.

His performance before the stab/near medicine is unknown and can only be scaled to Shanks, who was portrayed next to WB with no inferiority. 



> Besides, even if I wanna say Shanks is equal to old Whitebeard, that's far removed from his prime, which is where Roger currently sits.



That's why I stated "at the very least" when discussing Shanks in relation to Old Whitebeard. His sickness can very well cost him the fight once it drags on.

Shanks is beyond Old Whitebeard's level, in my opinion.


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## xmysticgohanx (Oct 20, 2015)

Old WB > Shanks > Sick WB > MF Akainuts


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## trance (Oct 21, 2015)

King Itachi said:


> Just the one clash between Shanks and WB suggests all of those things - except hype, perhaps - but Oda did call Mihawk/Shanks/WB legends among men, if I recall correctly.



They were mentioned in the same breath which is impressive but that doesn't necessarily equate to them being on a relatively even level with each other. 



> WB was built up as feared/powerful because of his prime and equality with Roger.



Even in his old age, he was cited multiple times as the strongest and de facto ruler of the ocean.



> I also see no reason why WB was considered a threat to the world. He couldn't care less about One Piece and minded his own business for the most part.



That's not what I'm saying at all. What I was saying is that with his own power, he was considered a threat on a global scale. His true intentions never mattered. He had the power regardless.



> Exactly. You said it yourself. There's no way to actually determine how true the statement is, seeing the title could have just stayed with WB's name since his prime. After the stab and other injuries, WB was shown to be on the same level as C3. Akainu basically killed him, in fact.



But I can't imagine Shanks well past his prime and on his death bed defeating the strongest Admiral of his generation with only two attacks.



> That's why I stated "at the very least" when discussing Shanks in relation to Old Whitebeard. His sickness can very well cost him the fight once it drags on.
> 
> Shanks is beyond Old Whitebeard's level, in my opinion.



Whitebeard has hype beyond any of the middle generation. He is stronger than Shanks by an unquantifiable extent.


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