# Pacific Rimverse vs Metal Gear Solidverse



## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 17, 2013)

Idk. Just start the fight and don't judge me.


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## willyvereb (Dec 17, 2013)

MHS Raiden solos.


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## Linkofone (Dec 17, 2013)

Raiden is good at what he does. Taking down giant robots.


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## Byrd (Dec 17, 2013)

I wonder if Snake can pull it off... he probably could... Raiden for sure can and probably the rest of the Winds of Destruction


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## Xiammes (Dec 17, 2013)

Could Raiden even kill 1 Kaiju? This battle seems more to do with military then anything else.

Even the lowest level Kaiju are twice the size of the metal gears.


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## willyvereb (Dec 17, 2013)

Size doesn't mean much when they have gross advantage in speed and even their attack power is superior.
Raiden in his latest Cyborg body would effortlessly beat most Kaiju.

The only exception could be Slattern
But well, Metal Gears were specifically developed to become mobile platforms for nukes.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 17, 2013)

MGR Raiden does have ~multi-block strength (IIRC) and a damn sharp sword 

he's also fast and can probably run/climb on their bodies 


so ....


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## Xiammes (Dec 17, 2013)

willyvereb said:


> Size doesn't mean much when they have gross advantage in speed and even their attack power is superior.
> Raiden in his latest Cyborg body would effortlessly beat most Kaiju.
> 
> The only exception could be Slattern
> But well, Metal Gears were specifically developed to become mobile platforms for nukes.



Speed doesn't matter much considering the massive durability advantage the Kaiju, after a week of bombing the first Kaiju, they had to nuke it to kill it.

Both series have modern military which I feel will be the determining factor.


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## Byrd (Dec 17, 2013)

I don't think 200m creature  can put  Raiden considering he managed to stop Arsenal Gear in a much weaker form.. his best strength feat

Raiden can probably toss one with no problems


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## MAPSK (Dec 17, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hahbpRheXMA[/YOUTUBE]


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## willyvereb (Dec 17, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Speed doesn't matter much considering the massive durability advantage the Kaiju, after a week of bombing the first Kaiju, they had to nuke it to kill it.


And that's impressive exactly how?
Like it was said above, Raiden and Cyborgs close to his level have multi city block level+ strength combined with a super-sharp blade and ability to cut machines with the Kaiju's size class into ribbons.



> Both series have modern military which I feel will be the determining factor.


> Metal Gear Universe
> Modern military
> Choose one

Especially by MGR:R's timeline.
Sure, the same could be said to an extend for Pacific Rim verse but when the general plot involves things like army of cyborgs, Espers or a railgun-launched stealth nuke to destroy military satellites, you know the verse is quite far from being our modern world equivalent.


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## Byrd (Dec 17, 2013)

not to mention also the entire SOP system for soldiers, invisibility camo etc..

Hell back in the 60s, they had shit our military haven't even developed yet


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## Xiammes (Dec 17, 2013)

> And that's impressive exactly how?
> Like it was said above Raiden and Cyborgs close to his level have multi cit block level+ strength combined with a super-sharp blade and ability to cut machines with the Kaiju's size class into ribbons.



What Machine in MGS verse is close to the size of Trespasser? Trespasser is the smallest Kaiju and he is 92m tall. 

>weakest Kaiju 
>finally dies after 6 days of battle and 3 nuclear missiles
>not impressive.




> > Metal Gear Universe
> > Modern military
> > Choose one
> 
> ...



You know what I mean, both are nuclear.


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## MAPSK (Dec 17, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> You know what I mean, both are nuclear.



Nuclear <<<<<<< nanomachines


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 17, 2013)

The Kaiju adapted to the Jaegars and developed a version of an EMP. Does the EMP affect any of the Metal Gear Solid characters equipment or bots? If not, is there any way for the Kaiju to adapt? .3. or Is this a major noob question? Forgive me if it is ,_, .


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## MAPSK (Dec 17, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> The Kaiju adapted to the Jaegars and developed a version of an EMP. Does the EMP affect any of the Metal Gear Solid characters equipment or bots? If not, is there any way for the Kaiju to adapt? .3. or Is this a major noob question? Forgive me if it is ,_, .



Nah. MGR cyborgs actually contend with EMPs on a fairly regular basis. Their cyborg bodies are actually built to momentarily shut down to prevent damage from EMPs. Once the danger has passed, activity resumes as normal.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 17, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Nah. MGR cyborgs actually contend with EMPs on a fairly regular basis. Their cyborg bodies are actually built to momentarily shut down to prevent damage from EMPs. Once the danger has passed, activity resumes as normal.



Constant EMPs plus the Jaegars can just suicide in the end to do a giant explosion... wait. how is the explosion because I actually don't know how specifically strong each verse is. just the basic stuff.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 17, 2013)

The Kaiju Masters crush Metal Gear Earth in a brutal war of attrition if the connection with their universe is the same as it was in Pacific Rim.

Pacific Rim Earth itself doesn't contribute much though. Jaegers will do some damage, but the overall difference in technology is too great.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 17, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> The Kaiju Masters crush Metal Gear Earth in a brutal war of attrition if the connection with their universe is the same as it was in Pacific Rim.
> 
> Pacific Rim Earth itself doesn't contribute much though. Jaegers will do some damage, but the overall difference in technology is too great.



Psycho Mantis does some kind of telepathy with them and finds out their weaknesses etc. 
jk idrk if that'll work
I just want to be on both sides.


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## NightmareCinema (Dec 17, 2013)

Monsoon crushes the pilots inside their Jaegers.

Also...
[YOUTUBE]RypphRK14t8[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]pujlXCczSqE[/YOUTUBE]

Like others said, only thing Raiden and co. aren't beating is Slattern and that's because of its durability being too great for the HF Blades to deal with.

Other Kaiju are going to be wondering why their limbs are suddenly being detached for some weird reason.


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## MAPSK (Dec 17, 2013)

Slattern ain't doing shit. Surface area is going to _fuck_ the kaiju here. Even with city level durability, Armstrong is just going to divebomb right through them while the live band plays his theme music. Like a beefy nanomachine bullet.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 18, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Slattern ain't doing shit. Surface area is going to _fuck_ the kaiju here. Even with city level durability, Armstrong is just going to divebomb right through them while the live band plays his theme music. Like a beefy nanomachine bullet.



Town level*


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

Yeah, Slattern only took that nuke from distance.
The feat was only low-mid town level.

As for the first Kaiju taking 6 days of constant fire and 3 nukes to be taken down...
That's rather unquantifiable.
First of all, 6 days is a pretty huge timeline.
And conventional weaponry employed by a modern world Earth would not exceed building level.
So at best that'd warrant building level+ durability.
Nukes are a different thing but even in 2013 I doubt these would manage to hit a moving target.
And it worths noting that the creature eventually got taken down by the 3rd nuke.
Which very much implies it could not tank a direct contact nuclear explosion.
Most likely it couldn't stand close to the nuke's epicenter, either.
Since, well, nukes are configured for airburst so they would explode above the target to cause maximum collateral damage.

EDIT:
Turns out they used 3 nuclear missiles at once, resulting in the destruction of Oakland.
Well, that pretty much confirms the fact it was done via collateral damage.
This, combined with the fact that modern nuclear missiles are MIRVs with kiloton range warheads, means that the Trespasser had multi city block level durability, at best.
And like MAPSK said, they'd also get fucked over due to surface area.
Speaking of which, so does Slattern.
Town level durabilit only applies to its full frontal surface area.
A HF blade barely occupies a micro-fraction of a square meter, combined with its rotary saw effect and the capability to destabilize molecular bonds, Slattern would quickly end up in tiny pieces. there.
Size can help to take more attacks but it's irrelevant when the opponent is just massively more faster.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 18, 2013)

So let's see, 
1:the Kaiju's can't adapt in time enough to deal with massively Hypersonic speed characters with swords that will dice em up into pet food.
2:Suicide bombing Yaegar's won't kill em all and some would probably somehow tank a blast like that.

How does Stamina go?


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

Suicide bombing with Jaegers only works if:
1.) The Jaeger has a nuclear reactor (only know example is Gypsy Danger)
2.) The Jaeger is equipped with a nuclear device (non-standard equipment but saw with Strike Eureka)

Besides it theorizes the Jaegers would even have the chance to get close.

As for Kaiju Masters wearing down MG-verse over time, that's unlikely.
Raiden can destroy Cyborgs close to his level under minutes of time.
And with intent his technology could be mass-produced in sufficient quantities to have him everywhere.
So dealing with the physically inferior and much slower Kaiju would be no issue unless the Kaiju Masters would possess the capacity to send one to each major city in every second.
And like you can guess, that's impossible.
They'd be an annoyance at best.
And a threat they'd eliminate in months of time at worst.
The worst case scenario is the most likely for them here, TBH.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 18, 2013)

The top tiers could take some Kaiju and Jaegars out but that's it. On the other hand MGS has much superior tech and could hack into the Rimverse tech. Snake and the like could sneak into their bases. The Aliens having an army of Kaiju who can reproduce is the problem so it's a war of attrition on that side but only one Kaiju can survive a nuke anyway.


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

Well, most likely every single Category 5 Kaiju with the second wave of invasion probably had such capabilities.
Not like it would matter.
And nah, Cyborgs at MGRR Raiden's level or a little below (Winds of Destruction and such) are considerably beyond most Kaiju in strength and none of them have the durability to prevent getting sliced into pieces.

Also even at their fastest Kaiju were coming on every few days, with maximum number being 3 per wave.
That's hardly a threat for MGRR militaries.
Especially since there are supposedly many weapons that can pose threat to Raiden-level cyborgs.
So you actualy won't even need to mass-produce them.


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 18, 2013)

But we don't know if they had more level 5 and if so how many. Is there some info given in one of the other materials?To be fair they could always make more level 5 from inside their dimension so it is irrelevent in the end I guess.

So it comes down to how they deal with those level 5 via attrition. If they could sneak inside the home dimension and nuke it they should seal the portal for a win.


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

Sneaking a nuke into places is kind of Metal Gear verse's specialty.
Almost every series is about this.
They also have actual telepaths and a much more sophisticated technology to accomplish the feat.

Also, like I said, not even Slattern would pose much threat to the current MGverse.
She'd be about as difficult to beat as the Desperado-modified Metal Gear RAY. Or at worst like Excelsus.
Guess what happened to both?


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## Tranquil Fury (Dec 18, 2013)

Since you mentioned telepaths(I actually forgot about this possibility) they could also jack the hivemind of the Kaiju. Easy win there but yes dropping nukes, infiltration and suicide missions are MG specialities.


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

Not sure.
Depends on how extensive and resistant that certain hivemind is.
But yeah, they could potentially kill the Kaiju Masters with their own creations.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 18, 2013)

Tranquil Fury said:


> But we don't know if they had more level 5 and if so how many. Is there some info given in one of the other materials?



Newt explains that Categories 1 to 4 were just scouts meant to probe Earth's defenses. Category 5 is the extermination wave meant to wipe out humanity completely, so they're definitely capable of being mass produced.


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## Scratchy (Dec 18, 2013)

And as far as I can remember, they sure as hell weren't going to stop at 3 Kaijus per wave.


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## Axl Low (Dec 18, 2013)

nanomachines win


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 18, 2013)

Scratchy said:


> And as far as I can remember, they sure as hell weren't going to stop at 3 Kaijus per wave.



The number of Kaiju in each attack was going to keep increasing as the delays between attacks got shorter. Double event, then triple event, then quadruple event, and so on.

And the delays themselves weren't going to stop at just a few days. Eventually it was going to be mere minutes between Kaiju attacks.


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## willyvereb (Dec 18, 2013)

And that's just pure speculations.
Like any industry, creating Kaijus does have its limit.
Especially with the breeding program the Kaiju Masters used.
Growing them is one thing but then they also tested the Kaiju and put them in various gladiatorial fights to see which of these is the most worthy.
Besides, pushing through more than one Kaiju through the portal at once is almost physically impossible.
They must come in a line. One after another.
So there must be few minutes of delay between each Kaiju's arrival.
Multi-entr is unlikely, IMO.

As it was shown, unleashing a couple of Kaiju a day was already close to pushing it.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 18, 2013)

willyvereb said:


> And that's just pure speculations.



Speculation that was shown to be accurate. The countdown clock was based entirely around it and worked perfectly, while the triple event happened exactly when Gottlieb said it would.

Even if we limit the rate just to what we see in the movie, the delay is clearly not several days by the end. Otachi, Leatherback, Raiju, Scunner, and Slattern all came through on the same day.



> Like any industry, creating Kaijus does have its limit.



Obviously, but the Kaiju Masters have an immense amount of resources to throw at the problem. Opening the Breach alone required energy comparable to the entire output of human civilization over the last hundred years, and we see first hand how gigantic the Kaiju factory is when Gipsy enters their universe.



> Especially with the breeding program the Kaiju Masters used.
> Growing them is one thing but then they also tested the Kaiju and put them in various gladiatorial fights to see which of these is the most worthy.



Where did you get this from?



> Besides, pushing through more than one Kaiju through the portal at once is almost physically impossible.
> They must come in a line. One after another.
> So there must be few minutes of delay between each Kaiju's arrival.
> Multi-entr is unlikely, IMO.



We see the diameter of the Breach when Gipsy dives into it. Multiple Kaiju the size of Slattern could easily fit inside it at once, especially while swimming vertically.

And it really doesn't matter too much whether the Kaiju arrive all at once or several minutes apart.



> As it was shown, unleashing a couple of Kaiju a day was already close to pushing it.



Based on what?

The Kaiju Masters hadn't even entered the second phase of their invasion yet.


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## Expelsword (Dec 19, 2013)

So, I just wandered into this thread.
It looks like the general idea is that you don't $%^! with Metal Gear.


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## MAPSK (Dec 19, 2013)

Expelsword said:


> So, I just wandered into this thread.
> It looks like the general idea is that you don't $%^! with *this senator.*



Fixed that for ya.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 19, 2013)

On a side note, the official novelization (which is canon except for parts that directly contradict the film) confirms that Kaiju do get bigger than Slattern:



> ?They are living weapons, Marshal. The first wave was just the hounds, categories one to four. Their sole purpose was to clean out the vermin. Us. Aiming for our populated areas... the next wave is the exterminators??
> 
> In Newt?s head, a vision of something gigantic formed, with kaiju swimming around it like speedboats around an aircraft carrier. It was so fragmentary it wasn?t even a sensory impression, more like a synaptic ghost of something that his brain had traced over from another being?s brain. That might have been called a sensory impression when it originated, but...
> 
> ??They will finish the job. Then the new tenants will take possession.?





> A hundred million years and more they had waited, the Precursors and their soldiers who dwarfed even Slattern, who made Gipsy Danger look like a child?s toy.


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 19, 2013)

Eldritch Sukima said:


> On a side note, the official novelization (which is canon except for parts that directly contradict the film) confirms that Kaiju do get bigger than Slattern:



Holy **** .w. . Would it be a bad time to say that I just watched the movie and never knew there was a book? 
I thought the world finally got creative and made an original movie.
Turns out it's another movie based off of another book.

On Topic: What's stopping the Metal Gearverse from holding back the Kaiju with Raiden and other characters that are badass and can absolutely crush the Kaiju and Jaegars, than later on mass duplicating whatever they did to make Raiden? besides money materials and etc.


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## mcdave (Dec 19, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> Psycho Mantis does some kind of telepathy with them and finds out their weaknesses etc.
> jk idrk if that'll work
> I just want to be on both sides.


He breaks the 4th wall 
If the Jaeger Pilots cant put the control in the second Port i see not how they could beat him.


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## OtherGalaxy (Dec 20, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> Holy **** .w. . Would it be a bad time to say that I just watched the movie and never knew there was a book?
> I thought the world finally got creative and made an original movie.
> Turns out it's another movie based off of another book.



no it's a movie novelization bruh bruh, based on the movie more or less


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 20, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> On Topic: What's stopping the Metal Gearverse from holding back the Kaiju with Raiden and other characters that are badass and can absolutely crush the Kaiju and Jaegars, than later on mass duplicating whatever they did to make Raiden? besides money materials and etc.



How long does it take to make a new cyborg of Raiden's caliber?

Because even if we stop at the highest rate of Kaiju appearance actually seen in the movie (triple events and eight hour cooldown period) we're still talking about nine Kaiju, likely all Category 5, coming through the Breach every day.


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## Crimson Dragoon (Dec 20, 2013)

I very much doubt they can make Raiden-tier cyborgs in a reasonable time frame 

he's pretty much cutting edge tech and the bodies of guys on par with him, the Winds, aren't mass produced likely due to expenses


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## Byrd (Dec 20, 2013)

Well exoskeletons are pretty common in the verse... every ninja soldier is equip with HF Blades as well.. but Raiden was a special case design by a scientist in a PMC group... who knows what they can make


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## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 20, 2013)

This went from Pacific Rim winning with Giant Alien tank monster armries to Raiden and other cyborg ninja people turning them into mince meat to the Kaiju having an even bigger amy and bigger Kaijus to Metal Gear having a bigger army of cyborgs etc. 
Now it's Cyborg Ninjas Versus Giant Robots and Aliens from the Ocean that came from a dimensional rift that was somehow made during the dinosaur years and etc. 
On Topic: The only problem i see is that on Earth, you need money to make Cyborg ninjas not to mention the upkeep on the maintenance and etc.
I don't know if the Kaijus have to pay eachother to make more Kaijus buy eeeehhhhh...


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## willyvereb (Dec 20, 2013)

Given that by MGRR they pretty much have the technology to maintain entire armies and police forces of cyborgized humans, I doubt the upkeep of a few high-spec
Also remember that prior to this, MGverse had the titular Metal Gears which would be far more maintenance-needy just given the difference in size.
Similarly, money could be prohibiting to field a whole armies of super cyborgs but when the push comes that would hardly matter.
There's also the thing that MGverse already have conventional weapons that can harm these super cyborgs so they might not even need to invest into this thing.

And really, like I said, the chance of MGverse losing one of their super-cyborgs in battle is extremely low.
So if anything this would eventually turn to that the Kaiju Masters will exhaust their resources.
Given if MGverse doesn't blow up the portal before that.
...or choose to mind-control the Kaiju and kill the Kaiju Masters in their home dimension.


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## Tanduayxxx (Dec 22, 2013)

It took the first and weakest kaiju 2 weeks of heavy conventional bombing, of US and the british air force.. with tanks and jets.. just to kill. it. until they realized its not working then they resorted to nukes..  

A category 5 kaiju tanked a 2.5 megaton nuke at point blank range..  and suffered only cosmetic damage i don't see how the metal gear universe is winning here.. they will get stomped by kaijus in the long run..  and they would just fuck up their own world.. if they use nukes regularly.


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## Tanduayxxx (Dec 22, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Size doesn't mean much when they have gross advantage in speed and even their attack power is superior.
> Raiden in his latest Cyborg body would effortlessly beat most Kaiju.
> 
> The only exception could be Slattern
> But well, Metal Gears were specifically developed to become mobile platforms for nukes.






Raiden would never beat a single kaiju not even close.


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## MAPSK (Dec 22, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> Raiden would never beat a single kaiju not even close.



Surface area, son


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2013)

I have a question, didn't ditch surface area arguments a long time ago? Why are we suddenly bringing it up now and why are we not applying the shit to Juubi.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2013)

it's kind of bullshit/double standarts if we apply that to giants to downplay them, but don't acknowledge that smaller human-sized characters can't take all or even most/50% of energy of explosions even at very close range

perhaps lolfiction says they do (fiction fucks up the whole realistic surface area thing a lot), but that goes for giants as well .. so either it goes for both/all cases or nothing 



although in this case it shouldn't matter as Raidens MB strength + such a sharp sword says he should be able to harm things (_regardless_ of their size) with ~(low) town durability and kaiju don't even have that much .. except maybe Slattern, but even he _was_ damaged by a 1.2 MT nuke


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> it's kind of bullshit/double standarts if we apply that to giants to downplay them, but don't acknowledge that smaller human-sized characters can't take all or even most/50% of energy of explosions even at very close range
> 
> perhaps lolfiction says they do (fiction fucks up the whole realistic surface area thing a lot), but that goes for giants as well .. so either it goes for both/all cases or nothing



Thats how we left it I thought too, this is the first time in over half a year I have heard "surface area" as a argument.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2013)

I think it mostly refers to Raidens really sharp ol poke stick  which is pretty valid in both rl and fiction


now if someone said that Raiden can ~punch holes in kaiju (esp Cat 3/4) with his bare fists then I'd call bullshit 




oh and don't listen to MAPSK


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> I think it mostly refers to Raidens really sharp ol poker stick  which is pretty valid in both rl and fiction



I highly doubt he was talking about the surface area of Raidens sword..


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2013)

MAPSK ? ignore him


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2013)

But but but but thats mean.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2013)

he's mad, he said so himself 

his ramblings are inadmissible


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## Xiammes (Dec 22, 2013)

Fluttershy said:


> he's mad, he said so himself
> 
> his ramblings are inadmissible



I don't ignore anyone, I don't even have Majinsaga on my ignore list.


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## Shiba D. Inu (Dec 22, 2013)

now that's a feat


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## Raidou Kuzunoha (Dec 22, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Sneaking a nuke into places is kind of Metal Gear verse's specialty.
> Almost every series is about this.
> *They also have actual telepaths* and a much more sophisticated technology to accomplish the feat.
> 
> ...



Yeah...Psycho Mantis' case being able to control the Genome Soldiers all over Shadow Moses. So there's that case of being able to mindrape a Kaiju and controlling it.

>B-BUT DAT HIVEMIND

A hivemind of how many at once?


*Spoiler*: __ 




Besides OBD Hivemind >>> Kaiju Hivemind




Plus lacking any real defenses against anyone on Mantis' level.

So he could just mindrape one from a distance and have one do the grunt work while everyone just chills with Multiversal Dante eating pizza.


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## Tanduayxxx (Dec 22, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Surface area, son





Raiden would already be exhausted before he can put a life threatening wound to a kaiju son..  

Specially with no nano machines son.


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## Regicide (Dec 22, 2013)

Wait, so what's the deal on surface area shit now?


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## shade0180 (Dec 22, 2013)

Probably something to do with less surface area the more penetrating the attack would be?  also less force needed to surpass durability


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## Byrd (Dec 22, 2013)

Given the HF Blades nature they should easily be able to cut through the Kanji...

and yes the MG verse already has armies of cyborg soldiers equip with these swords...


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## Regicide (Dec 22, 2013)

shade0180 said:


> Probably something to do with less surface area the more penetrating the attack would be?  also less force needed to surpass durability


No, I mean what's our current standpoint on that shit.

Cause some people seem to have no problems using it and others don't.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 22, 2013)

In the novelization of Pacific Rim. When Gypsy entered the rift. They saw Kaiju twice the Size of Slattern. Those were the Kaiju that would have completely eradicate the human world.


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## Huey Freeman (Dec 22, 2013)

Jagger's also have some tech level as Raiden sword. Their fist are ion charged and Eureka has blade of nano tubes. 


So you are downplaying the Jagger's massively. You can check the official website as well for this.


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## Tanduayxxx (Dec 26, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> In the novelization of Pacific Rim. When Gypsy entered the rift. They saw Kaiju twice the Size of Slattern. Those were the Kaiju that would have completely eradicate the human world.



Not to mention an army of leatherback kaiju  all equipped with emp would screw up the MGS VERSE..


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## MAPSK (Dec 26, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> Not to mention an army of leatherback kaiju  all equipped with emp would screw up the MGS VERSE..



Except no because we've said before MGS cyborgs aren't affected by EMPs.


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## Tanduayxxx (Dec 27, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Except no because we've said before MGS cyborgs aren't affected by EMPs.




It will still disable all the power from military factories,cities, tanks,jets,missiles, and power installations and also sever communications  it doesn't matter if the cyborgs are immune.. 

A category 5 kaiju tanked a nuke at point blank range underwater where the shockwave and pressure is highly magnified...   and can still fight...  nuking the kaijus would just leave the MGS earth a wasteland with radiation fall out everywhere.


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## MAPSK (Dec 27, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> It will still disable all the power from military factories,cities, tanks,jets,missiles, and power installations and also sever communications  it doesn't matter if the cyborgs are immune..
> 
> A category 5 kaiju tanked a nuke at point blank range underwater where the shockwave and pressure is highly magnified...   and can still fight...  nuking the kaijus would just leave the MGS earth a wasteland with radiation fall out everywhere.



They don't _need_ to nuke the kaiju. Just airdrop Raiden and Senator Armstrong into the fray, sit back and watch shit get done.


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## Xam (Dec 27, 2013)

No one mentioned Armstrong yet?
Blasphemy.


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## JayDox (Dec 27, 2013)

Does the rift open up suddenly like it did in the movie? 

Also, what about Otachis acid? It dissolves steel in seconds.  They can make a bunch of category 5+ Kaiju with that ability. Not to mention their poisonous blood (not sure how it will work on cyborgs, but it should still fuck up the enviroment and normal humans). 

The masters could also use military strategy. Send in a bunch of Otachi to guard the skies and rain acid down on opponents. Send some leather backs to fuck up the power grids, communication, etc. send others as pawns to attack the military/ general population, and have others gaur the breach.


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## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 27, 2013)

Liquid solos them in a chopper.

GG


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## MAPSK (Dec 27, 2013)

JayDox said:


> Does the rift open up suddenly like it did in the movie?
> 
> Also, what about Otachis acid? It dissolves steel in seconds.  They can make a bunch of category 5+ Kaiju with that ability. Not to mention their poisonous blood (not sure how it will work on cyborgs, but it should still fuck up the enviroment and normal humans).
> 
> The masters could also use military strategy. Send in a bunch of Otachi to guard the skies and rain acid down on opponents. Send some leather backs to fuck up the power grids, communication, etc. send others as pawns to attack the military/ general population, and have others gaur the breach.


----------



## TehChron (Dec 27, 2013)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> Liquid solos them in a chopper.
> 
> GG



"In the middle east...we hunt Jackals"


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

As far as the Jagers go, Snake Takes them out Easily. He's taken out many many Metal Gears, which are just as good, if not better than the Jagers.

Raiden Can slice through Metal Gears and Buildings with ease, and is faster than anything in the Rimverse, they'd have a hard time seeing him much less hitting him, since they're so big and thus easy to dodge. Not to mention the far superior Stealth tactics that Metal Gear has, considering that is what they're best at.

As Vereb Said they have weapons that can Harm Cyborgs on Raiden's level, and Raiden's Tech has hardly unique, the same type of cybernetics could be put into just about anyone.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 27, 2013)

> He's taken out many many Metal Gears, which are just as good, if not better than the Jagers.



None of the Metal Gears aside from the Arsenal types are even half the size of a Jagers. Most of the Metal Gears have also been pretty frail.

Intercontinental Ballistic Metal Gear -  Taken out with RPG's

Metal Gear ZEKE - Taken out with RPG fire

TX-55 Metal Gear - Taken out with C4 on its feat.

Metal Gear D - Taken out with grenades on a weak leg.

Metal Gear REX - One of the more durable Metal gears, but vulnerable radar dish when broken exposes the cock pit, taken out with stinger missiles.

Metal Gear RAY - Depending on the type, Raiden took out 25 mass produced models with just stinger missels and the other types can take a few hits from Rex.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> None of the Metal Gears aside from the Arsenal types are even half the size of a Jagers. Most of the Metal Gears have also been pretty frail.
> 
> Intercontinental Ballistic Metal Gear -  Taken out with RPG's
> 
> ...



But usually Far better armed. Tell how Many Jagers can carry nukes? Every Metal Gear was designed to carry multiple nukes. Also they only require, at most, 1 pilot, while Jagers need two. Even if Snake can't take down the Jagers, he's more than capable of killing their pilots, as none of them can handle him in a fight, and he can just leave the robot dismantling to Raiden.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Stopping this thing was a feat MG4 Raiden did with his strength... He sends both Jagers and Monsters flying


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 27, 2013)

You do realize Jagger's were walking Nuclear reactors ?

And Gypsy shot anti matter that can disrupt Kaiju molecular structure.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Actually Raiden manage to stop the AG model that was 630 meters long and moving at 40km an hour... Slattern at best is around 180-190 meters... He can easily handle the Jags which aren't even 100m



> You do realize Jagger's were walking Nuclear reactors ?
> 
> And Gypsy shot anti matter that can disrupt Kaiju molecular structure.



and how will this be a problem?


----------



## Huey Freeman (Dec 27, 2013)

How is length and height be equivalent ? And 40km is nothing .


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 27, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> But usually Far better armed. Tell how Many Jagers can carry nukes? Every Metal Gear was designed to carry multiple nukes. Also they only require, at most, 1 pilot, while Jagers need two. Even if Snake can't take down the Jagers, he's more than capable of killing their pilots, as none of them can handle him in a fight, and he can just leave the robot dismantling to Raiden.



Jaegers have the fire power to kill the Kaiju, which takes nukes otherwise to kill even for the lowest rank.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> How is length and height be equivalent ? And 40km is nothing .



Missing the point ...stopping an object moving that weights more moving at those speeds... just reading on some info its top speeds are 40 knots not km.. thats around 70km/h.

He should easily be able to toss any Jager or Kaiju... thats my point and so could beings in his class aka winds of Destruction and Armstrong



> Jaegers have the fire power to kill the Kaiju, which takes nukes otherwise to kill even for the lowest rank.



Wouldn't matter much seeing from MGS3, soldiers can carry portable nukes aka The Boss as well as the HF blades that can slice through Kaiju

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehhJTUJ5UG4[/YOUTUBE]

Remember this? Starts around 6:00...


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 27, 2013)

> Wouldn't matter much seeing from MGS3, soldiers can carry portable nukes aka The Boss as well as the HF blades that can slice through Kaiju



You mean the Davy Crockett nukes that exist in real life? The ones that only max out at 1 kiloton and don't have enough range that they would endanger the shooter? This isn't even counting their poor accuracy.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> You mean the Davy Crockett nukes that exist in real life? The ones that only max out at 1 kiloton and don't have enough range that they wouldn't endanger the shooter? This isn't even counting their poor accuracy.



They won't kill the them but shooting enough would bring them down  

but they can sure put the hurt on them... 

but aye Raiden and cyborgs his tier would be all that is needed... so AG, Outer Heaven, and the other MGs aren't needed


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 27, 2013)

Byrd said:


> They won't kill the them but shooting enough would bring them down
> 
> but they can sure put the hurt on them...




Not really, Tresspasser ate 3 nukes and 6 days of getting bombed to hell before it was taken down. I honestly think there is a bit of downplay where someone thinks that Davy Crockets would be a factor in this match.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Not really, Tresspasser ate 3 nukes and 6 days of getting bombed to hell before it was taken down. I honestly think there is a bit of downplay where someone thinks that Davy Crockets would be a factor in this match.



You can take them out.. still Raiden and the Winds of Destruction would be enough... my only point with that was it allows the MG-verse to strategically do things with ordinary or super enhanced soldiers


----------



## Punchsplosion (Dec 27, 2013)

It's irrelevant at this point because Raiden and his ilk completely destroy the Kaiju and Jagers with low effort.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

Danger Doom said:


> You do realize Jagger's were walking Nuclear reactors ?
> 
> And Gypsy shot anti matter that can disrupt Kaiju molecular structure.



I Do, I've seen the movie, but again how many could carry nukes? Because I know for a fact that not all of them could self destruct with enough force to equal a Nuke.

Was it in the book that said it was Anti-Matter, because I remember the Movie saying it was Plasma, and those are not the same thing... if it is from the book, I want page numbers please.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 27, 2013)

> my only point with that was it allows the MG-verse to strategically do things with ordinary or super enhanced soldiers



What? Launch highly ineffective nukes that wouldn't even hurt the smallest of Kaiju? This is assuming that all the Davy Crockett Nukes in MGSverse weren't deactivated in 1968.

)

Most Davy Crocket nukes (M-388) were only 10-20 tons, not much stronger then todays MOAB.


----------



## 1337RedGlitchFox (Dec 27, 2013)

This is becoming a Quality Vs Quantity thread, but I'm not sure which side has which because of all the facts getting thrown in...

How long can Raiden fight and how many Kaijus can be spammed send into the world?


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 27, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> This is becoming a Quality Vs Quantity thread, but I'm not sure which side has which because of all the facts getting thrown in...
> 
> How long can Raiden fight and how many Kaijus can be spammed send into the world?



It's been a little while since I've dealt with MGR, but Raiden can fight for days for what it looks like. His Cyborg body gives him huge endurance, as well as superb durability. Not to Mention Raiden and the Winds out Speed everything in the Rimverse, and with their blades and Strength, should have no difficulty cutting through Jagers or Kaiju.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 27, 2013)

Thing also is that Slattern was severally wounded by a 50-kiloton bomb...

Metal gear Rex has nukes that are 200kt also able to fire them anywhere on the planet at speeds up to 100km a sec


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 28, 2013)

Byrd said:


> Thing also is that Slattern was severally wounded by a 50-kiloton bomb...
> 
> Metal gear Rex has nukes that are 200kt also able to fire them anywhere on the planet at speeds up to 100km a sec



Where the hell did you get 50 kiloton bomb? The Nuke was 1.2mt and detonated deep underwater, increasing the damage dealt.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 28, 2013)

One a Second note, whats stopping Snake from killing, and sabotaging all of the Rimverse's War efforts. Killing pilots, killing commanding officers, sabotaging the Jagers weapons and systems. Nothing the Rimverse has can compete with Sake when it come to stealth and Snake has an IQ of 180, and has been trained from a very young age in fighting, and stealth. Between that and Raiden and the Winds on the Front lines, MGS has this.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 28, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Where the hell did you get 50 kiloton bomb? The Nuke was 1.2mt and detonated deep underwater, increasing the damage dealt.



Really when was it 1.2mt? but it doesn't matter anyway... Raiden and his team wins the day


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 28, 2013)

Byrd said:


> Really when was it 1.2mt?



The Nuke was stated to be 1.2 million tons of TNT, which is 1.2mt.

I really don't understand where you are getting 50kt.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 28, 2013)

Thats the usually energy output for bombs of similar class but regardless it makes no difference if its 1MT or not... results are the same


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 28, 2013)

Gonna just pop in real quick to say that lazy calcs on my part put Gypsy at multi-block to low end town level in terms of physical strength, notably Gypsy can beat on Kaiju all day without doing anything.

Dunno if that's been mentioned, but I wanted to share and it doesn't seem appropriate to make a meta thread for it.


----------



## willyvereb (Dec 28, 2013)

^Well, which feat are you basing that on?
The Category 4 Kaiju breaking through the Anti-Kaiju wall?
Because, yeah, I calced that multi city block level, as well.

Anyways, welcome to the dark side, fellow lazy calcer.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 28, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> ^Well, which feat are you basing that on?
> The Category 4 Kaiju breaking through the Anti-Kaiju wall?
> Because, yeah, I calced that multi city block level, as well.
> 
> Anyways, welcome to the dark side, fellow lazy calcer.



The one where Gypsy swings around the cargo ship as a makeshift sword actually. I just grabbed a cargo ship weight and scaled up what I recall the human swing speed is, 21m/s or so right?

Obviously that's a fairly hefty assumption but realistically I don't think the feat will go below Multi-block at the lowest (got single digit kilotons when I did it).


----------



## willyvereb (Dec 28, 2013)

You may confuse it with the peak human swinging speed.
Besides you could've just measured this using a rough timeframe, angle and the distance from the ship's center of mass.
Granted, I suspect the sped would be then even greater.

But there's also that I don't like using "projectile" KE when we have a direct evidence of the destruction shown (tanker breaking up).


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 28, 2013)

we'll put that aside for the time being then. 

I also got about 100 tons for the chest fire thingy for counteracting Gypsy's fall. Though I feel like Gypsy almost definitely weighs more than the stated number.

Not as useful of a number because that thing wrecked every Kaiju they hit with it but still.


----------



## Byrd (Dec 28, 2013)

Gypsy weighs about 1,100-1500 tons I think


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 28, 2013)

1980 tons.

Since Raleigh is american I assume he means short tons.


----------



## willyvereb (Dec 28, 2013)

Otachi can also spit its acid at supersonic or at least near supersonic velocities.
Not based on animation, but the gravity.
That thing can be spewed relatively far without dropping much.
Gipsy Danger dodged this from relatively close range.
There's also a similarly impressive feat when Otachi soars above the clouds.
Still that's underwhelming compared to MHS super cybernetic soldiers who also possess similar level of strength.

This reminds me that I should really get my ass into that Raiden calc.
MHS Revengeance is just a step away.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 28, 2013)

that Otachi feat confuses me a bit.

I feel like the shot we get of Earth was higher than 15km in the air.


----------



## willyvereb (Dec 28, 2013)

Well, things like this can happen a lot.
You have to decide which is the more reliable.
The visuals or the claim regarding their elevation.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 28, 2013)

Snake dies repeatedly and Otacon's voice sends pacific rim into insanity.  Snake  Snake  Snake


----------



## Agmaster (Dec 28, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> Monsoon crushes the pilots inside their Jaegers.


Lorenz force....nature's force.


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 28, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Otachi can also spit its acid at supersonic or at least near supersonic velocities.
> Not based on animation, but the gravity.
> That thing can be spewed relatively far without dropping much.
> Gipsy Danger dodged this from relatively close range.
> ...


Aren't most of the Cyborgs Supersonic at minimum? I'm honestly Curious, because if They are just as strong and much Faster than the Kaiju can't Beat them. Then we have people like Psycho Mantis with his psychic rape factor that no one in the Rimverse can handle, and Snake who can Sabotage all their efforts and Assassinate key figures. I'm not seeing any real way for the Rimverse to win.


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 28, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> Aren't most of the Cyborgs Supersonic at minimum? I'm honestly Curious, because if They are just as strong and much Faster than the Kaiju can't Beat them. Then we have people like Psycho Mantis with his psychic rape factor that no one in the Rimverse can handle, and Snake who can Sabotage all their efforts and Assassinate key figures. I'm not seeing any real way for the Rimverse to win.



They're hypersonic minimum, not supersonic, so they rape even harder


----------



## Archangel010 (Dec 28, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> They're hypersonic minimum, not supersonic, so they rape even harder



oh, God.... nothing in the Rimverse is that fast... is there enough lube to go around??


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 28, 2013)

Worth noting that Kaiju are a lot faster and more agile underwater than they are on land.

Knifehead was hitting Mach 2+ on its way to Anchorage and it's not especially fast by Kaiju standards.


----------



## BashFace (Dec 28, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> oh, God.... nothing in the Rimverse is that fast... is there enough lube to go around??



 Rude. Of course there is i got heaps of it.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> They don't _need_ to nuke the kaiju. Just airdrop Raiden and Senator Armstrong into the fray, sit back and watch shit get done.




Nope.. kaijus are too strong and durable..   they won't even get past category 1 kaijus let alone category 4 and 5 please stop wanking..


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

Archangel010 said:


> I Do, I've seen the movie, but again how many could carry nukes? Because I know for a fact that not all of them could self destruct with enough force to equal a Nuke.
> 
> Was it in the book that said it was Anti-Matter, because I remember the Movie saying it was Plasma, and those are not the same thing... if it is from the book, I want page numbers please.




It was actually just a superheated plasma...  that burns through the kaiju.. and cauterizing its blood.. to seal it from bleeding.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

This is a WIN WIN situation for the pacific rim verse anyways..   If the metal gears keep nuking  the kaijus invading their territories.. the radiation would make most of the areas uninhabitable..  and they can easily attach nukes to the jaegers as well.. 

Also they would never  get into the portal because they will never know how it works unless they drift with a kaiju..  

So the kaiju masters will just keep sending category 3 and 4 kaijus till they already know their abilities..


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

1337RedGlitchFox said:


> This is becoming a Quality Vs Quantity thread, but I'm not sure which side has which because of all the facts getting thrown in...
> 
> How long can Raiden fight and how many Kaijus can be spammed send into the world?




In the movie that limpy scientist accurately predicted that the portal will send kaijus every month to every week.. to every day and to every hour..  that will eventually overrun the human world.. 

Category 1 to 4 are only just pawns.. they are sent just to scout and know the abilities of their enemies. while category 5 to 10 are exterminators..  that can tank nukes with no problem


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> This is a WIN WIN situation for the pacific rim verse anyways..   If the metal gears keep nuking  the kaijus invading their territories.. the radiation would make most of the areas uninhabitable..  and they can easily attach nukes to the jaegers as well..
> 
> Also they would never  get into the portal because they will never know how it works unless they drift with a kaiju..
> 
> So the kaiju masters will just keep sending category 3 and 4 kaijus till they already know their abilities..



MGverse has telepaths. They'll know faster than Rimverse did.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> MGverse has telepaths. They'll know faster than Rimverse did.



The only one that can read minds is Psycho Mantis and he has a limited range.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> MGverse has telepaths. They'll know faster than Rimverse did.




Doesn't matter if they have telepaths...   unless these telepaths you said are on par with charles xavier..  

Kaiju masters can send kaiju into the portal every hour till the MGS verse is overunned


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> Doesn't matter if they have telepaths...   unless these telepaths you said are on par with charles xavier..
> 
> Kaiju masters can send kaiju into the portal every hour till the MGS verse is overunned



And suddenly you need one of the most infamous telepaths in fiction to overwhelm featless one-scene wonders. That's logic. And heads up, Raiden can fight for days straight without tiring and is superior to the kaiju in pretty much every imaginable way thanks to surface area. Plus, cyborgs like him can be mass-produced. MGS verse isn't even going to crash the economy dealing with the kaiju.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

> every imaginable way thanks to surface area.



We threw out surface area arguments a long time ago, why are you still trying to bring that up?


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> We threw out surface area arguments a long time, why are you still trying to bring that up?



Maybe because it's basically been the crux of this thread? And even without surface area, cutting/piercing still applies, so Raiden slices and dices regardless.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> Maybe because it's basically been the crux of this thread?



When it shouldn't be, we threw out surface area arguments a long time ago due to double standards, considering we give full durability to human sized targets that withstand a explosion, even they would take less then 50% of the energy from a direct hit.


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> When it shouldn't be, we threw out surface area arguments a long time ago due to double standards, considering we give full durability to human sized targets that withstand a explosion, even they would take less then 50% of the energy from a direct hit.



>implying the OBD doesn't leak double standards out it's cancerous anal cavity


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> And suddenly you need one of the most infamous telepaths in fiction to overwhelm featless one-scene wonders. That's logic. And heads up, Raiden can fight for days straight without tiring and is superior to the kaiju in pretty much every imaginable way thanks to surface area. Plus, cyborgs like him can be mass-produced. MGS verse isn't even going to crash the economy dealing with the kaiju.




Doesn't matter if they can fight for days without tiring raiden would be an ant from a kaiju and can easily squash him like a bug not to mention their special abilities like acid spray would melt raiden in contact ..   The first and weakest kaiju to arise from the ocean took the entire US military 6 days of heavy conventional bombing and it didn't do jack till they decide to nuke it out.. 
 kaijus would sure  crash the MGS economy..


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> Doesn't matter if they can fight for days without tiring raiden would be an ant from a kaiju and can easily squash him like a bug not to mention their special abilities like acid spray would melt raiden in contact ..   The first and weakest kaiju to arise from the ocean took the entire US military 6 days of heavy conventional bombing and it didn't do jack till they decide to nuke it out..
> kaijus would sure  crash the MGS economy..



[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfYcwo7Wtw[/YOUTUBE]

lolno


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> >implying the OBD doesn't leak double standards out it's cancerous anal cavity



Lots of things are case by case basis, considering how fictions have a lot of different mechanics so we have to judge things differently, this how ever this was blatant double standard on how we judge things.

Also what is the biggest emp he has ever survived and how close was he to the blast zone, saying they are immune to emp is a NLF.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfYcwo7Wtw[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> lolno





It took 3 nukes to finally kill a kaiju...  raidens weapons won't do jack shit..


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

MAPSK said:


> [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfYcwo7Wtw[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> lolno




Link removed


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 29, 2013)

Tanduayxxx said:


> It took 3 nukes to finally kill a kaiju...  raidens weapons won't do jack shit..



And where was Trespasser?
Did it tank the nukes head on?
Or was it from a distance?
Because if it's the latter, then Trespasser's durability is going to be way less than city level+.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> And where was Trespasser?
> Did it tank the nukes head on?
> Or was it from a distance?
> Because if it's the latter, then Trespasser's durability is going to be way less than city level+.



Considering they were trying to kill it, I doubt they airblasted the nukes, airblasting would cause more damage to the surroundings and less damage to Tresspasser, only logical they directly nuked him.

Still you are right, until we know the yields of the nukes we can't say it was city level, its still a mid to high end town feat.


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Considering they were trying to kill it, I doubt they airblasted the nukes, airblasting would cause more damage to the surroundings and less damage to Tresspasser, only logical they directly nuked him.
> 
> Still you are right, until we know the yields of the nukes we can't say it was city level, its still a mid to high end town feat.



Yeah... Only yield we seem to know for sure is the one used against Slattern (1.2 megatons). 
Consensus for that one is that Slattern took that hit from a distance, right?
Making that another mid-to-high town level durability feat?


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> And where was Trespasser?
> Did it tank the nukes head on?
> Or was it from a distance?
> Because if it's the latter, then Trespasser's durability is going to be way less than city level+.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

A category 5 survived in the deepest trench in the world and tanking a nuke in the face i seriously doubt raiden is going to do shit.. to slattern..


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> Yeah... Only yield we seem to know for sure is the one used against Slattern (1.2 megatons).
> Consensus for that one is that Slattern took that hit from a distance, right?
> Making that another mid-to-high town level durability feat?



Slatten was right in the nukes face when Euraka Strike detonated it. Considering it was underwater, the damage was actually increased.

[YOUTUBE]KoginoeFMuQ[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 29, 2013)

Thank you for posting the same link again.
Now how about the yields of each nuke?


----------



## GiveRobert20dollars (Dec 29, 2013)

How did this get to 7 pages?


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Slatten was right in the nukes face when Euraka Strike detonated it. Considering it was underwater, the damage was actually increased.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]KoginoeFMuQ[/YOUTUBE]



Ah. So Slattern would be outright city level then.
Then that's where the cyborgs are going to get fucked over.


----------



## NightmareCinema (Dec 29, 2013)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> How did this get to 7 pages?



Ask MAPSK and Tanduay.


----------



## MAPSK (Dec 29, 2013)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> How did this get to 7 pages?



I have no fucking idea.



NightmareCinema said:


> Ah. So Slattern would be outright city level then.
> Then that's where the cyborgs are going to get fucked over.



Actually, surface area aside, cutting/piercing would still mean Raiden is capable of harming up to city level opponents with his HF blade. So they still stamp.


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> Ah. So Slattern would be outright city level then.
> Then that's where the cyborgs are going to get fucked over.



Inside the bridge they saw Kaiju twice the size of Slatten, who was 180+ meters himself.


----------



## Tanduayxxx (Dec 29, 2013)

NightmareCinema said:


> Ask MAPSK and Tanduay.





Ask the wanking  guy who said raiden would solo all of the kaijus..


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

GiveRobert20dollars said:


> How did this get to 7 pages?



me and willy spent half a page discussing calcs so there's that.

rest of it is MAPSK being stupid


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

this is kind of interesting.

anyone know more about the circumstances of the 7.1 magnitude earthquake that accompanied trespasser?


----------



## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

Nightbringer said:


> anyone know more about the circumstances of the 7.1 magnitude earthquake that accompanied trespasser?



It either means that the Breach caused the Earthquake, or all the Kaiju make similar Earthquakes when they land.


----------



## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

The novelization mentions that the Breach draws energy from the Earth's tectonic activity to maintain stable:



> Study of the bio-electromagnetic signature of the energies radiating from the Breach, as well as remote analysis of the Breach?s physical structure, indicates potential vulnerability.
> 
> The Breach requires the energy of Earth?s tectonic activity to maintain cohesion. Though a powerful and persistent phenomenon, it is also fragile, existing both on Earth and in what we have called the Anteverse. It is believed that the Anteverse is another planet, and presumably some energy source there also contributes to the function of the Breach.
> 
> ...



So that probably has something to do with the earthquake.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

the article seems to imply that the earthquake was in san francisco which isn't anywhere near the portal. 

though I have no idea where the earthquake thing is even coming from.


----------



## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

> as well as focused energies equivalent to the entire output of human civilization during the last century.



That's a lot...


----------



## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Where did you guys even get the ridiculous idea that we "threw out" surface area arguments for debates.
That's about as idiotic as saying calcs are no longer accepted in the OBD.
Seriously, use your mind.

And it's the second time I hear this retarded idea that nukes are more powerful in water.
Yeah, right.
They can now suddenly ignore the conversation of energy.
Nah.
The more dense surroundings just means that a larger percentage of the nuke's energy is converted into kinetic energy.
And kinetic energy in general is more efficient in destroying stuff.

Anyways, the supposed "point-blank tanking".
Even if the creature was right next to the nuke it's physically impossible to take all of its energy.
Re-watching the scene thanks to Xiammes' video I roughl measure the Kaiju were 40 m away in the time of detonation (half Jaeger height).
Slattern is roughly 150 m tall, IIRC.

Distance ~ 40 m
Height ~ 150 m

Let's use the most optimistic measure, the planar model.
So we're assuming the nuke's energy spread out evenly in a circle.
Perimeter = 40*2*3.14 = 251.2 m
against Slatter's width which is circa half of its length
Width = 75 m

So the amount of energy Slattern did tank is:
1200*75/251.2 = 358.28 kilotons

And well, that's just for the whole effected surface area.
Slattern swam headfirst into the bomb there.
Which roughly gives us the area 75*35 meters.
358280 / (75*35) = 136.48 tons of TNT / square meters
So yeah, if we translate this to cyborgs, they're pretty much on the same level of durability.


Don't like this?
Well, that's not my problem.
You say this is a downplay.
I say this is a simple use of mathematics and the physics of the stuff we're usually doing here.


Also nothing ever confirms the actual placing of the Trespasser.
Using the stats is erroneous because they are all over the place.
And again, nukes are set to airburst at default.
Saying that it must've impacted with the Kaiju directly is just a wishful thinking unless you can back it up with evidence.
I never read the Pacific Rim novels and comics but you're all doing a poor job to present it for me.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Slattern was roughly one creature length away from the nuke's detonation.



Slattern was basically touching Striker when the nuke detonated.

The clip was posted on this page.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

Slattern and the other kaiju (Raiju?) were basically an arms length from the explosion.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah, thank you for pointing me out the obvious.
Just corrected my calc.
Albeit yeah.
I may need to use the distance of the arms for the energ per square meter unit calc.
EDIT: I checked again, and the hands were about 26+ meters (1/3rd Jaeger length) from the blast's epicenter.
Even though they almost touched the machine.

So yeah, the difference would be only twice of this.
And that's, again, not counting the fact Slattern did get damaged considerably.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

the very last frame before the explosion goes off and in the next few frames Slattern keeps going forward but it's hard to tell what's going on because a bright light takes up half the screen.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

anyway what I'm more interested in is this earthquake thing.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

wiki lists

 Star Forge Viewing Platform

as a source but I can't read it for shit.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

As others said, the earthquake was produced by the opening of the dimensional gate.
And I guess this is also the reason how Pacific Rim humans were able to locate it.


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## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Where did you guys even get the ridiculous idea that we "threw out" surface area arguments for debates.
> That's about as idiotic as saying calcs are no longer accepted in the OBD.
> Seriously, use your mind.



Because the arguments died well over half a year ago and hasn't been brought back up till MAPSK started talking about it.




> Anyways, the supposed "point-blank tanking".
> Slattern was roughly one creature length away from the nuke's detonation.
> And it got hurt considerably by that.
> But well, let's assume it tanked the blast.



Watch the video, Slatten was basically touching Eureka Striker when it went off, he was swimming towards the blast.


*Spoiler*: __ 













> Also nothing ever confirms the actual placing of the Trespasser.
> Using the stats is erroneous because they are all over the place.
> And again, nukes are set to airburst at default.
> Saying that it must've impacted with the Kaiju directly is just a wishful thinking unless you can back it up with evidence.
> I never read the Pacific Rim novels and comics but you're all doing a poor job to present it for me.




Because its not like nukes can't be reprogrammed. Airbursting would be completely retarded, those MOABs they would be firing at Tresspasser for about a week would have been more effective.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

I guess.

I dunno it just doesn't read that way to me but without more info I'll have to concede.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

also slattern wasn't exactly wrecked by the nuke.

the whole arms almost torn off thing was inflicted by Striker earlier and anything else appeared to be superficial at best, unless I'm missing something.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> Because its not like nukes can't be reprogrammed. Airbursting would be completely retarded, those MOABs they would be firing at a Kaiju for about a week would have been more effective.


Again, wishful thinking.
And where does it even mentions dropping MOABs on the creature?
Not to mention that MOABs are also deployed in airburst.
 Or that the USA doesn't have more than a couple of them, IIRC.
And perhaps the fact there's no way they'd ever score a direct hit on a moving target with bombs.
Same for nukes.
So you don't know what are you talking about.
Unless you can back up your ideas with actual source material confirming it.



Nightbringer said:


> also slattern wasn't exactly wrecked by the nuke.
> 
> the whole arms almost torn off thing was inflicted by Striker earlier and anything else appeared to be superficial at best, unless I'm missing something.


He was also missing some of its armor.
But yeah, it was certainly far from debilirating.
Still, attacks with the same level of intensity would actually make harm on him.
And we're talking about giant at best supersonic creatures engaging MHS cyborg ninjas in combat.
Being merely able to harm these creatures would be well enough here.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

tbh with you willy I don't think Pacrim's winning this one. 

just using this thread to nail down stats


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

This is all the prequel comic shows regarding the nuking:



Make of it what you will.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Well, of course.
And it worths noting that I'm fan of both series.
Just the ignorance of one side does irritate me.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> This is all the prequel comic shows regarding the nuking:
> 
> Make of it what you will.


Did the Trespasser managed to survive this?
I thought that was the nuke which finished the creature off.


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## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Again, wishful thinking.
> And where does it even mentions dropping MOABs on the creature?
> Not to mention that MOABs are also deployed in airburst.
> Or the fact there's no way they'd ever score a direct hit on a moving target with that.
> ...



>Giant Monster rampaging through the US
>The US not doing everything in its power to stop it

So I am to assume they tried killing it machine guns and tanks before they decided to drop the nukes? Common sense dictates they are going to use every conventional weapon before resorting to nukes, which is backed up by the fact they waited 6 days to launch the nukes.

Also what is Satellite? Its a giant 90m tall monster, its not like it would take extreme precision to score a direct hit.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Did the Trespasser managed to survive this?
> I thought that was the nuke which finished the creature off.



That's implied to be the one that killed it, yeah.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Xiammes said:


> >Giant Monster rampaging through the US
> >The US not doing everything in its power to stop it
> 
> So I am to assume they tried killing it machine guns and tanks before they decided to drop the nukes? Common sense dictates they are going to use every conventional weapon before resorting to nukes, which is backed up by the fact they waited 6 days to launch the nukes.
> ...


So it's based completely on your own assumptions.
Cool.
You should post actual quotes or something instead of letting your fantasy run wild.



Eldritch Sukima said:


> That's implied to be the one that killed it, yeah.


I see.
Well, there had been apparently two other nukes before this.
What happened with those?
Any description or implication for them, or the damage they did?


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

I think they probably scaled up their nukes as they went, starting with something weak and then escalating when the nukes failed to kill them.


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## Xiammes (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> So it's based completely on your own assumptions.
> Cool.
> You should post actual quotes or something instead of letting your fantasy run wild.





If they air burst is debatable, but it would be retarded of them to airburst at regular altitudes.

However, saying that the US sat on their thumbs for 6 days and didn't mount a assault is ludicrous.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Nightbringer said:


> I think they probably scaled up their nukes as they went, starting with something weak and then escalating when the nukes failed to kill them.


Well, that can occour.
I mean the nuclear ICBMS nowadays are all MIRVs.
As in the large missile deploys multiple nuclear sub-munitions.
The largest individual nuke in service is around 300 kilotons, IIRC.
Usually deployed in the groups of 5.

Perhaps they were considering the damage to the environment so they held back in the beginning?
Still, that's assumptions.
Fictions usually follow a weirder and often more simplistic way of thinking.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> I see.
> Well, there had been apparently two other nukes before this.
> What happened with those?
> Any description or implication for them, or the damage they did?



We know the first two were tactical nuclear missiles and that Trespasser survived them, but that's about it.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

as far as the kaiju masters are concerned, they were able to harness and concentrate energy equivalent to the energy of the last century, which is quite a lot.

world energy use for 2008 = 143.851 petawatthours = 123.77Gt

that implies that the Kaiju masters can access country levels of power and focus it into things.


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## willyvereb (Dec 29, 2013)

Tactical nukes?
Ah, I see.
Well, were they ICBMs or their delivery was never mentioned?
And was the Trespasser on the surface the whole time?
Because we have certain nuclear torpedoes and surface to air missiles to use.
Despite their lowered yield most ICBMs are described as strategic weapons.


Nightbringer said:


> as far as the kaiju masters are concerned, they were able to harness and concentrate energy equivalent to the energy of the last century, which is quite a lot.
> 
> world energy use for 2008 = 143.851 petawatthours = 123.77Gt
> 
> that implies that the Kaiju masters can access country levels of power and focus it into things.


Where did you get this?
And besides what actual use of it has here?
Aside from wild speculations.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Tactical nukes?
> Ah, I see.
> Well, were they ICBMs or their delivery was never mentioned?
> And was the Trespasser on the surface the whole time?
> ...



That stuff isn't covered, at least in the sources I'm familiar with.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

The breach opens in 2013 so presumably when it says energy of the last century it's starting from there.

every year after 2008 is at least 2008 level and there's 5 of them so ~124*6 = 744 Gigatons.

Year 2000 was 117.687 petawatthours or 101Gt.

all the years between 2000-2008 are at least that much energy so another 101*8 = 808Gt


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Tactical nukes?
> Ah, I see.
> Well, were they ICBMs or their delivery was never mentioned?
> And was the Trespasser on the surface the whole time?
> ...





> Harnessing the fundamental energies necessary to the creation of a passage such as the Breach?which essentially folds space-time around itself to bring two distant points into proximity?requires technology far beyond current human capabilities, as well as focused energies equivalent to the entire output of human civilization during the last century.



ES posted it, from the novelization I think.


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## Eldritch Sukima (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> Where did you get this?



The Breach's energy requirements are from the novelization.

I posted the quote earlier.


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## Nighty the Mighty (Dec 29, 2013)

Mega Vereb said:


> And besides what actual use of it has here?
> Aside from wild speculations.



I'm imagining a giant laser or something


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